# Is This What A Machined Surface Should Look Like?



## HBilly1022 (Mar 5, 2016)

So today I took apart my King Industrial 1022 lathe saddle, cross slide and compound to give them a thorough cleaning and this is what I discover. The surface of the saddle that rides on the ways doesn't look machined, to me at least. There are a few spots on the front way saddle that look like a milling machine may have touched them but I'm thinking that may just be the areas that are contacting the ways.  If you look closely you might be able to see them in the second pic. How bad is this? If I just accept it, will it come back to bite me in the future or should I go after the manufacturer to replace the saddle. I've already had several parts replaced on this lathe, through the dealer. EDIT; I forgot to mention that I bought this lathe new about 3  months ago.


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## TOOLMASTER (Mar 5, 2016)

thats pretty ugly


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## stupoty (Mar 5, 2016)

Is it a new lathe?  

In the third picture the metal looks like it has bubles in it.

The general bad finish, is that a visual issue or can you substantualy feel the patern if you drag your fingure nail across it?

Stuart


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## HBilly1022 (Mar 5, 2016)

Stuart, it's not just visual. There is a very obvious roughness to it and can easily be felt with a finger tip. No nails required to feel this. The second pic may not show the roughness well but there are humps and valleys that can be felt when running a finger over it. These surfaces can only be riding on the ways in very small, limited spots. 

Yes this is a new lathe ....... well it was 3 months ago when I got it from the closest dealer. I've had numerous issues with this lathe but at least the dealer has been there to help replace defective parts. I don't think he really understands the issues when I point them out to him but at least he will go to bat for me with the local King rep or get a new part in for me. Don't know if he will now because it has been 3 months since I bought it. May have to deal directly with the manufacturer.


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## stupoty (Mar 6, 2016)

Definetly worth contacting the dealer, it's dificult to know what the best thing todo is.  If it was an older lathe I would say lap it but as it's new they may want to swap it.  Surely that can't be their expected level of fit and finnish?  And even though it's 3 monthes old i'm not sure how that could happen from use.

Humm.

Hopefully other owners of  king industrial stuff will chime in.

Stuart


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## TommyD (Mar 6, 2016)

I would hope it is warrantied for more than 3 months. I'd be placing a call to the dealer requesting he look at the pictures and to explain to you why it looks the way it does.

Did you pay with a credit card? If so, and you get no where with the dealer, I'd give my card servicer a call and explain your situation to them. I have seen card companies make things happen.

Good luck.


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## kvt (Mar 6, 2016)

I would contact them and have them look at it.  because that looks like it will cuase wear to you problems later.   They should at least talk to you about it.


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## HBilly1022 (Mar 6, 2016)

In one of my other threads I made a comment about some blackish _sludge_ that develops on the ways and now that I look closely at the saddle, I can see that the sludge that shows up on the ways is in the same alignment as the _shiny_ _wear_ marks on the saddle. I think the saddle is made of cast iron (could be wrong though - maybe it's cast steel) and that the saddle is wearing at the contact points with the ways. I believe that is what is causing the blackish sludge and the shiny areas on the saddle. My fear is that if I don't fix / replace the saddle that it will eventually wear the ways, especially if it continues to make its own lapping compound by wearing in.

The dealer has been very good to deal with but I'm thinking that he may just refer me to the manufacturers rep since it has been 3 months. I returned the first lathe because of 2 issues with that one. The main lead screw wobbled (looked like a bent shaft in the gear case) and the cross side had a serious machining flaw. The dealer replaced it with the one I have now and I've worked through a bunch of issues with it. There's a lengthy story about that in my intro thread follow up post. I thought I had resolved all of the important issues with this lathe but it looks like I missed at least one.  The manufacturer has also been good so far. They just replaced a drawbar and motor for my newly purchased milling machine. They were quick to respond and quick to ship the parts. The warranty on the lathe is 2 years, I think. It might only be one year but I'm pretty sure it is 2. In any case I have lots of warranty left.

I'm a little concerned about constantly going back to the dealer and manufacturer as I get the feeling from the dealer that he doesn't know machinery very well and thinks I'm one of of those guys that complains about everything without just cause. As an example here is a pic of the cross slide that I returned after picking up _this_ lathe. I showed him the machining flaw and explained that I could not adjust the gibs properly with the taper on the machined face. I would have to adjust the gibs every time I pulled the cross slide back or the slide would loosen and cause vibration. He looked at me kind of dumbfounded and just told me to swap the part with the cross slide from the first lathe I returned.


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## Holescreek (Mar 6, 2016)

Given the retail price, that's insane. Looks more like a scraping project kit.  Black sludge is soft cast iron.  If I could return it and get my money back I would.  Too many issues.


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## Steve Shannon (Mar 6, 2016)

You should not feel bad going back to the dealer.  If the machine is a piece of soft junk with a poor finish, he needs to know.  If it's not, then he needs to help you understand what's going on. In exchange for that, he has already received a profit.


 Steve Shannon, P.E.


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## HBilly1022 (Mar 6, 2016)

It's too late to return it. Besides I've put a lot of work into this one and don't want to start over with another machine. After having a lathe I will not go without one and there are very limited choices around here for $2000. I looked for a few months for a used lathe and they were all well over that price or had some serious flaw if the price was close. The only other option is to get a lathe from Busy Bee but their machines don't have a very good rep either and they are a lot further away from me.  

I don't feel bad about going back to the dealer. It's more like I don't like the feeling I get about them thinking I,m too fussy or don't know what I'm talking about. That's why I asked questions here. I'm no machinist but I think those sections of the saddle that ride on the ways should be machined to a smooth surface, just like the cross slide and compound slide. If I'm wrong then I would rather be told so by people here. I have a lot more faith in the opinions I get on this forum than some of the input I get from the dealers staff. Like the statement " we've sold a ton of those and never had any issues before". Insinuating that I must be too fussy or don't know what I'm talking about. But I can put up with that if I know that I'm right and there needs to be something done to fix or replace a defective part. After all the warranty states that defective manufactured parts will be replaced at no cost to me, other than getting the machine to the nearest service center. So far I have done all the labor in removing, replacing and repairing defective parts and don't really mind since that is less time consuming, less costly and less hassle than having to load the machine onto the truck and haul it to the nearest service center that's 3 1/2 hrs away.


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## stupoty (Mar 6, 2016)

You should take full pictures of it all, ways/screws/paint spills / any other issues and post them hear, then post them to the ceo or qc manager for the company, they may upgrade you for the level of hassle you have had with the lathe so far.  I'm not saying the basic lathe they sell has to have a flaked finnish on all serfices but it should definetly be much much better than that.

I don't think you can be too strong about how that isn't supposed to be like that.  

The manufacturers site does say they take quality seriously so it could be a failure with a batch that has just slipped through.  If they say that sort of thing they should stand by it.

Stuart


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## roadie33 (Mar 6, 2016)

That is horrible, I've seen better looking ways on machines at the scrap yard while scrounging for steel.


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## TOOLMASTER (Mar 6, 2016)

take it back.


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## TommyD (Mar 7, 2016)

I agree with the suggestion to take it back, it doesn't seem like this equipment is developing a good track record.


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 7, 2016)

that has got to be the worst quality lathe i have ever seen.
if you can work with it, my hat is off to you.
i'd be very tempted to load it up in my pick up and take it back to them- whether i came back with another lathe or not. ( i'd rather have nothing than something this bad )
i'm sorry to say  that you will be in for some serious tail chasing if you try to use or repair that lathe


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## HBilly1022 (Mar 7, 2016)

I can't take it back. Company policy is 30 days from purchase date and it must be unused. Even if I could take it back then what? The only options around here are; 1) get another King Product, 2) get a Busy Bee product, 3) get a new southbend (no way on earth am I spending that much for a hobby lathe that only gets occasional use) or 4) get something used. The used stuff around here is very pricey or garbage in my price range. Doesn't leave many viable options. The only realistic option that I see at this stage is to get a new saddle that is properly made and carry on with this lathe. As I noted earlier, there have been a lot of issues with this lathe that I have worked through and I hope this is the last one.


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## roadie33 (Mar 7, 2016)

If the saddle is that soft, what is the bed ways like?
I'd definitely get them to replace the saddle and cross slide.
Hopefully with one that has harder ways than those were.


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## TommyD (Mar 7, 2016)

There is a supplier I've seen a couple of posts by members that seems like a good dude to deal with, hopefully someone here can supply his name. Give him a call and see what shipping is like, can't hurt.


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## Finster (Mar 7, 2016)

I think that's insane. Definitely a brand name I'll stay away from. Sorry to hear of your problems but I would return that and go with a different brand or buy something used with a proven track record. I've been saying it for years. You almost can't buy quality anymore no matter how much money you spend. EVERYTHING is JUNK! When I buy a new tool or machine, I try to buy better than I can afford. I figure the cost will be offset by the tool lasting years. Still, more often than not, it's still junk!


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## Terrywerm (Mar 7, 2016)

Wow. The cast iron is very poor quality with lots of air pockets or bubbles. As for the machining it almost looks like they did it with an angle grinder. Definitely not quality by any stretch of the imagination.


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## Steve Shannon (Mar 7, 2016)

HBilly1022 said:


> I can't take it back. Company policy is 30 days from purchase date and it must be unused. Even if I could take it back then what? The only options around here are; 1) get another King Product, 2) get a Busy Bee product, 3) get a new southbend (no way on earth am I spending that much for a hobby lathe that only gets occasional use) or 4) get something used. The used stuff around here is very pricey or garbage in my price range. Doesn't leave many viable options. The only realistic option that I see at this stage is to get a new saddle that is properly made and carry on with this lathe. As I noted earlier, there have been a lot of issues with this lathe that I have worked through and I hope this is the last one.


I suspect the 30 days/unused return policy is for buyer's remorse. You are dealing with something that has required numerous warranty parts replacements and even one total replacement within 90 days, well within the warranty period. I still think you should be able to demand a full refund. If you want to be nice you can ask for credit toward a new machine but only if you can inspect the new machine before receiving it. I suspect the dealer is just hoping you don't. He's only out his cost; you're out the full price. 


 Steve Shannon


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## HBilly1022 (Mar 7, 2016)

It just keeps getting better. I go out to the shop to continue working on my mill handle project and find that the compound slide is binding again. So I take it apart to clean it and inspect for possible causes. The first thing I notice is that the gib is bowed and it has a wear line close to the top edge. Now I'm getting fed up. So I decide to start documenting things in case I end up in a fight with the manufacturer. I put the gib on the lathe ways and measure the bend. I zero the DTI on one end then take readings at the high point and other end. The middle is 0.028" higher. Then I place the gib on the cross slide ways and see that the wear line on the gib matches up with the top of the cross slide dovetail. I put it back together and the problem becomes obvious. You can see in one of the pics that the gib is not sitting flat against the cross slide dovetail. It appears that the gib adjusters are causing the gib to sit crooked on the dovetail.

I think I've had it with this lathe. I'm going into the City tomorrow and will go to the dealer to discuss this with him. I am tired of trouble shooting and then fixing my _new_ lathe. I am going to suggest I get a refund and he can pursue this with the manufacturer. There is no way there should be this many issues with one lathe. This may not go well but I will let you know what comes of it. Worst case scenario they get the defective parts in and I will replace them _for one last try._ Best case scenario I get my money back ......... then what. I won't have a lathe. Anyways here are some pics for your enjoyment.


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## JimDawson (Mar 7, 2016)

That looks like a design flaw.  It looks like the gib is too small and the grub screws are way too high.


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## stupoty (Mar 7, 2016)

JimDawson said:


> That looks like a design flaw.  It looks like the gib is too small and the grub screws are way too high.



yeah does a bit, maybe they took too much off when machining the dovetail.

Good luck with the sales rep.  I relay think it has to be a massive "fell through the Q.C." issue I can't see that the manufacturer would expect to put out a product like that.  

That part (top slide / compound slide) doesn't have the same bubbly nature / machined with angle grinder and cold chisels look as the other parts, that should be about the roughest a slide way should look, the course nature of the fly cut(or maybe large shell mill) can help with oil retention, the ways, dovetails and gibs do have to be fairly tight with regard to overall flatness and angles etc.  Some machines can have oil retention pockets hand chiseled in but their normaly more like oil grooves in a plain type bearing.

Stuart


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## Finster (Mar 8, 2016)

Best of luck. I hope it works out for you. I would be quite miffed by now.


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## HBilly1022 (Mar 8, 2016)

So before going back to the dealer I check with Busy Bee to see if they have the similar lathe in stock and on display. I explained my situation and asked if I could take the compound apart to check the machining before buying the lathe and the answer was NO. He suggested I look at the next model up that they have on display and I could look at it and use all the movements but not take anything apart. They have one of the similar models coming in and it should arrive in the next day or so. However I would have to trust that the machine was properly made and if not I could return it within 30 days if it was unused. However it had been opened there would be a 15% restocking fee. So $360 to restock it. Not much help or encouragement from them. So my options are 1) get my money back, 2) get a new replacement lathe from King or 3) get replacement parts for the ones I find defective.

Off to the dealers I go. I talk to the store owner and show him the defective parts (I took them with me). As expected he does not know how these parts are supposed to look and asks me questions like; how is the gib supposed to sit on the dovetail? Is there something wrong with the one he is looking at. That being pic 2 above. When he looks at the underside of the saddle he asks if I did something to it and then asks if it's supposed to look different. I said that I have a milling machine that I bought from him and if I did something to it, it would look like it was properly milled but I am not going to do anything that drastic because after that I own the problem. I explained my dilemma about getting my money back and getting something else but there weren't any good alternative lathe manufacturers that had any better reps (in that price range). So I could ask for a new lathe or get replacement parts for the ones I showed him. I wasn't sure I wanted to get another lathe becuase there has been a lot of other work I have already put into making this one better (functional) and didn't want to start that process over. He was open to all of my suggestions, even getting a refund but he would have to clear all the options with the King rep. He said he was sure the rep would tell me to just keep using the lathe the way it until something breaks or the lathe becomes unusable. I said no way. The warranty states that defective parts will be repaired or replaced during the warranty period. If I continue to use it then other parts will be negatively affected and there will be more parts to replace. Besides with that attitude I may not get the parts replaced before the warranty expires. That is a no go in my mind. Then he suggested I send him a fax with the part numbers I want replaced and he will discuss it with the King rep the next time he is in. After some more thought I'm not sure if I should get them to send me a whole new lathe or just the parts for this one. More thought required on my part.

I wish I had better new lathe options, in the same price range.

Jim; I told the dealer that I had posted pics on a machining forum to get feedback about these issues and I told him what you said about the compound gib problem but he didn't seem to understand. I sure do though and it makes a lot of sense to me. I don't think the dealer / owner is trying to act like he doesn't know, just to deflect the issue. I believe he is trying to do the right thing but honestly doesn't know. That doesn't help but I'm glad he is not being a jerk about this.


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## TOOLMASTER (Mar 8, 2016)

DOES THE COMPANY HAVE A FACEBOOK PAGE?


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## HBilly1022 (Mar 9, 2016)

I'm going through the Grizzly forum to see if I can find some pics of similar issues and come across a new thread by Planeflyer that shows the underside of his G4003 tailstock and it looks like similar machining to that on the underside of my saddle. http://www.hobby-machinist.com/attachments/tsclampnut-jpg.124191/ Is this normal for these import lathes? Am I expecting too much? I don't want to be causing a ruckus if it is not warranted but I also don't want to keep something that will become a problem. Maybe all of these lathes look like that on the undercarriage of the saddle and tailstock. I don't have any other references to view since my dealer does not have any lathes on display.

Toolmaster; no facebook page that I could find.


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## atunguyd (Mar 9, 2016)

HBilly1022 said:


> Best case scenario I get my money back ......... then what. I won't have a lathe.



Looks to me like you currently don't have lathe anyway. 

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk


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## TommyD (Mar 9, 2016)

To be honest, do you REALLY want to keep that lathe? It seems that more issues could pop up, just as they have been doing.

It sux that the machinery dealer haa no clue how the machine operates or how it is put together, fortunately he SEEMS to be trying to make you happy. I can see hesitation on their part to let you take a lathe apart but they should be willing to honor a full warranty for anything that goes wrong during that period. How would you know in 30 days something is wrong if you haven't used it? I agree on the buyers remorse angle.

Good luck.


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## blaser.306 (Mar 9, 2016)

I have the same lathe , and many of the same " type " problems. King warranty is junk. my lathe bed has flaws and was told to live with voids in the cast!


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 9, 2016)

it makes me mad that a company would put out such junk. 
take King off the list of decent manufacturers.


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## Finster (Mar 9, 2016)

I find it almost unbelievable that a "dealer" that sells this equipment would know nothing about this equipment! What the heck? Seems like he is trying to help but having to explain everything to him and hold his hand would make me even more upset. I would just get my money back for a defective product if that is a option. I doubt that this lathe is ever going to be right and I would not even trust replacement parts.


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## stupoty (Mar 9, 2016)

HBilly1022 said:


> I'm going through the Grizzly forum to see if I can find some pics of similar issues and come across a new thread by Planeflyer that shows the underside of his G4003 tailstock and it looks like similar machining to that on the underside of my saddle. http://www.hobby-machinist.com/attachments/tsclampnut-jpg.124191/ Is this normal for these import lathes? Am I expecting too much? I don't want to be causing a ruckus if it is not warranted but I also don't want to keep something that will become a problem. Maybe all of these lathes look like that on the undercarriage of the saddle and tailstock. I don't have any other references to view since my dealer does not have any lathes on display.
> 
> Toolmaster; no facebook page that I could find.



I've uploaded some detail pics of my old 9x20 lathe, which is a fairly basic small lathe, it has a reasonable machined surfaces, I think it was made in tiwan.

Theirs a few marks that could be porosity in the casting but most are just damage from use.  Theirs also a detail of the way the gib fits.

If you go into my profile and look at my 9x20  picture gallery their in their.

Stuart


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## Finster (Mar 9, 2016)

Been doing a little searching, King is made in Asia, naturally. I believe it's Taiwan. I've not seen any great reviews about them, so it seems that this is the norm. The cost is atrocious especially for the quality. I'm just spit balling here but for the kind of money being spent, you might be able to buy a good used lathe in the states, have it shipped to you  and still be ahead of the game?


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## Reeltor (Mar 9, 2016)

Is the bed hardened?  I took a very quick look at King's site and didn't see any mention of hardened bed and ways.  If it was advertised as being hardened, ask for a new bed.  Somehow this one missed the ovens.
I hope you can get your new machine sorted out.


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## ScrapMetal (Mar 9, 2016)

I'd probably just try to get my money back and look for deals like this one...

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/c...00/1146314876?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

-Ron


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## Dranreb (Mar 9, 2016)

Do you not have any consumer laws that say an item must be "fit for purpose" and "of merchantable quality" over there that you can hit them with?
That lathe is truly horrible and misses both those targets by miles.


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## TOOLMASTER (Mar 9, 2016)

wonder if it is a knock off..


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## Steve Shannon (Mar 9, 2016)

TOOLMASTER said:


> wonder if it is a knock off..


It would appear to be a knockoff of a knockoff. 


 Steve Shannon


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## TommyD (Mar 9, 2016)

It might make a dandy boat anchor.


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## TOOLMASTER (Mar 9, 2016)

recycled metal from fukushima power plant.


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## HBilly1022 (Mar 9, 2016)

TommyD said:


> It might make a dandy boat anchor.



I've already got a boat anchor and it was a LOT cheaper than this one. But thanks for the suggestion, lol.

Some of you have noted that the cost is outrageous but it is comparable to the Grizzly G0602 price when the $CAD is converted into $US. So the price may not be that bad, if the quality was the same.

I think I could get my money back if I pushed it but not sure I want to yet. Still thinking about this issue. I would like to see another one of these lathes on display or in use so that I could see if my lathe is from a bad batch or if they are all like this. If they are all like this then I would prefer to get my money back and find something else. I would still prefer to buy something from the local dealer (1 hr drive) if possible. They are the only show in town. Next closest is 5 hrs away and may not be any better. I couldn't imagine how bad this would be if I had the same issue with a lathe I bought from a dealer that is 5 hrs away and not cooperative.  I could spend more in shipping costs or transportation costs going back and forth than the lathe cost.

I called several dealers today to see if I could find a display model somewhere reasonably close by, to look at but the closest one is at least 5 hrs away. I am considering calling the dealer I got my lathe from and asking if he would put me in touch with one of his other customers that have purchased this machine. I would tell him that I could look at their machine and see if mine is just a one off mistake or the norm. If mine is one of a kind error then he could get another machine in for me. But if these machines are all like this he could refund my money and avoid me pestering him for the next 2 years while the warranty is still in place. I might do that tomorow.

Jim Dawson; I took another look at the gib and as you suggested, the grub screws appear to be too high. I can see the wear marks very high on the backside of the gib. I didn't take measurements but it looks like it may be the same height as the top of the dovetail or maybe higher. That would definitely explain why the gib doesn't sit flush on the dovetail.

Stupoty; I looked at your 9x20 pics and see the underside of the tailstock had much better machining than the underside of my saddle.

Reeltor; the website states "*Guideway and gears in headstock are all hardened and precision ground*". Nothing about the saddle, cross slide or compound though.

Man this is frustrating.


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## roadie33 (Mar 9, 2016)

ScrapMetal said:


> I'd probably just try to get my money back and look for deals like this one...
> 
> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/c...00/1146314876?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
> 
> -Ron



That Logan would be 10 times better than the lathe you got. Even if it is used.


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## John Hasler (Mar 9, 2016)

roadie33 said:


> That Logan would be 10 times better than the lathe you got. Even if it is used.


By the way the swing is 10", not 6" as stated in the ad.  http://www.lathes.co.uk/logan/page4.html


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## Steve Shannon (Mar 9, 2016)

Hbilly1022,
I certainly don't blame you for your frustration. Montana is a bit of a desert when it comes to good used machines as well. Last week I saw a heavy 10 selling for $5k, US$. I understand also the desire to have a lathe. Working with one is therapeutic. So is working on one, if you can be sure it will result in a machine you enjoy using. 
As someone who was once in retail sales I appreciate also your desire to buy locally. It's too bad more people don't, but the problems you are having would probably not be occurring if you had purchased your lathe directly from the Canadian version of Enco or Precision Matthews. 
It may be that your best course of action might be to repair and replace only those parts that are subpar, but to do so you will need someone with a lot more knowledge than you or I have to advise you on what needs to be done. When I see how Stefan Gotteswinter on YouTube improved his lathe I am inspired to learn those techniques. You may be in a similar situation. 
I wish you luck. As I recall its only the saddle and tailstock that have the very poor finish, so maybe you want to just have those replaced. If the bed is good, keep it, but don't hesitate to return parts until you get good parts. Don't just settle out of frustration; you'll never be happy. 



 Steve Shannon


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## HBilly1022 (Mar 10, 2016)

That Logan must have just been posted because I haven't seen it before and I've been checking every day for the last week or so. It does look like a MUCH better lathe. However if it hasn't been sold yet it could be by the time I got to see it. That lathe is a 6 1/2 hr drive plus 2 hr ferry crossing plus another 2 1/2 drive from me. A long way to go and find out is sold before I get there. But I will call in the morning to see if there's been any interest. I just remembered that before I got this lathe I missed out on a used Southbend by 2 hrs. There was one for sale in Kamloops (1 hr away) and I called the guy within 2 hrs of the ad being posted and he said someone was on their way to check it out and if he didn't take it I would be next in line. The seller was doing a favor for his aunt, whose husband (the lathe owner) had passed away and he was helping her dispose of tools that the husband had in the garage. I called the guy back later that day and he said the lathe was taken. You'll love this part. The buyers offered him $500 but since there was no motor they said it was useless so he just gave them the lathe because they wanted to clear out the garage and that thing was too heavy for them to move.

Steve, the tailstock doesn't concern me much because it won't be moved back and forth as much as the saddle. But there are other issues too. When the half nuts are engaged they lift the main leadscrew and push it towards the lathe. Can't imagine that being good for the leadscrew or the half nuts. The bed ways have some minor dings in them that were there when I got the lathe. I'm sure the dealer or King rep will say I did it. However those dings are not in locations that are contacted by the saddle ways and would rarely, if ever contact the tailstock ways. 

Got to sleep on this and give it some more thought tomorrow.


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## TommyD (Mar 10, 2016)

How about advertising on CL and local websites/newspapers for a lathe? I've done it on my local CL and have had a couple of good results.

I may have missed this but ARE the ways hardened and straight? The first indication would be wear lines on the angled way which would result in a square being worn at the top of the way.

I have to hand it to you, I'd be dropping it off at the dealer and demanding my money back, I would be very worried about the quality of the other components, if gears are hardened properly, lead and feed screws, BEARINGS, things that would be giving the grunt to the spindle and carriage.


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## HBilly1022 (Mar 10, 2016)

TommyD said:


> How about advertising on CL and local websites/newspapers for a lathe? I've done it on my local CL and have had a couple of good results.
> 
> I may have missed this but ARE the ways hardened and straight? The first indication would be wear lines on the angled way which would result in a square being worn at the top of the way.
> 
> I have to hand it to you, I'd be dropping it off at the dealer and demanding my money back, I would be very worried about the quality of the other components, if gears are hardened properly, lead and feed screws, BEARINGS, things that would be giving the grunt to the spindle and carriage.



Good idea. I might go that route, depending on what I decide to do with this lathe. There are some wear lines on the angled bed way but I can't feel any scratches there. They are more like marks being caused by the saddle way, where it contacts the bed way. There are limited contact points. I can see the wear marks on the saddle way. What appears to be happening is that the saddle way is lapping itself onto the bed way.

I emailed the Logan lathe owner and am waiting for a reply to my questions. Not sure if I want to take the chance to go and see it though. It will cost me about$600 in fuel, ferry fees and motel just to go there and back plus 2 days of travel time. I read the link to the old ad and like the specs. I also like the price $200. It might have gone up a little since that ad was posted lol.

I'm waiting for the dealers store to open and I will call him about seeing another machine in the area. I'll see what he has to say about that.


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## Reeltor (Mar 10, 2016)

"I also like the price $200. It might have gone up a little since that ad was posted lol."

I think  you misread the ad.  it is a Logan Model 200 the price is $1,250.
At least it is in Canada so you won't have to pay any additional  tax bringing one in from the U.S.


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## John Hasler (Mar 10, 2016)

HBilly1022 said:


> I also like the price $200.


A complete, working Logan 200 for $200?  I'd send the money by courier and hit the road right now.


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## HBilly1022 (Mar 10, 2016)

The $200 was in reference to the old ad that John Hasler linked in post #46. The original price was $200 FOB Chicago , whenever that ad was posted, waaaaay back in time. The asking price for the lathe currently listed for sale in Kijiji is $1,250.


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## HBilly1022 (Mar 10, 2016)

No reply from the owner of the Logan yet and here is an update on the current lathe.

I called the dealer this morning and as luck would have it, he has 3 lathes that just arrived at his store. Two are still crated and presold. The 3rd has been damaged but is on a stand, so I can look at it and take apart the parts I am concerned with to see if those ones are better. Off I go to town again. I inspect the damaged lathe with the store owner. I point out the compound gib and that it is sitting flush with the dovetail, unlike mine. Then I check the half nut engagement to see if it moves the leadscrew and it doesn't. I have now convinced him that I am not making up these problems with my lathe and that there is something wrong with it. I brought the entire carriage assembly with me just in case. He told me to go ahead and swap out the parts. I now have them at home and I'm in the process of cleaning all the shipping gunk off of them and assembling them on to my lathe. The underside of the saddle ways is slightly better than the one I took in but the compound way is well seated. The half nuts still move the leadscrew but not as much as the old carriage. I looked at the half nut assembly and figured a way I could machine it to engage better, if I have to. I think I will  keep this lathe for a while and see how it goes. I still have a over 1 1/2 years of warranty left to fall back on, plus a dealer that is very helpful. But for now I will use it and keep a watchful eye on the know issues.

Hopefully I can put this out of my mind for a while and focus on using the lathe and new milling machine. But first I have to keep my promise to my wife and make her a hope chest. 

Thanks to everyone here for the help and input.


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## tq60 (Mar 10, 2016)

30 or other limit for returns is common but when a warranty claim is made clock stops.

Contact consumer affairs in your state.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk


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## roadie33 (Mar 10, 2016)

I don't think Canada has the same type of laws we have in the States to protect the consumer.


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## tq60 (Mar 11, 2016)

Does not hurt to check.

Also note that is the lead screw moves when 1/2 nuts closed then something is out of alignment.

Try at each end of the bed as it could be the support at the right side.

It also could be miss matched carriage that was designed for a different lathe so to speak. 



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk


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## Finster (Mar 11, 2016)

HBilly1022 said:


> I looked at the half nut assembly and figured a way I could machine it to engage better, if I have to. I think I will keep this lathe for a while and see how it goes. I still have a over 1 1/2 years of warranty left to fall back on, plus a dealer that is very helpful. But for now I will use it and keep a watchful eye on the know issues.
> 
> .
> 
> .


 As soon as y0ou start machining parts, you can kiss the "warranty" goodbye. Just Say'in. Frankly, I can't believe they are even allowing you to swap parts. More power to you. As for me, I would just want out.


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## dlane (Mar 11, 2016)

Some times nowadays you don't even get what you pay for


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## HBilly1022 (Mar 11, 2016)

In the process of assembling the new carriage parts, I discover the bottom plate that secures the front, underside of the saddle to the bed ways, is loose. I tighten it as much as reasonably possible only to find that it will not contact the underside of the bedways and the saddle can be lifted up and down. This is not a big deal to fix, I already did it on the saddle I just returned. But that was the straw that broke the camels back. Now I've had enough. I call the dealer and tell him what's going on and that I'm fed up with fixing my new lathe. He asks what I want to do and I tell  him I want my money back and I will another lathe somewhere else. He said they have sold a lot of those lathes and aren't aware of other people having issues with them. So either I'm just looking for problems or other owners aren't informing him of their problems. He was very good about the whole thing and agreed to give me a full refund. I thanked him and with the knowledge I will get my money back, I start looking for a new lathe.

I check out the Busy Bee website and they have a similar 10" x 20" lathe with variable speed and left hand threading capabilities, $500 more, until tomorrow then it goes up $200. I'm excited and call the closest dealer to discuss looking at it and warranty period / warranty claim process. This is the second time I called and talked to the same person and he recognizes my voice. I explain the issues I've had with a competitors lathe and that I'm getting a refund and will be getting a new lathe immediately. He says they have one in stock and it's in a crate. They will take the top off the crate so I can look at it but I cannot operate any of the controls. They have the next size up on the floor and I can operate that one to see how it feels. The warranty is 3 years on parts and 90 days on labour. Their policy on returns is 15% restocking fee if it is unopened (don't like that one). Since they are 5 to 6 hrs away I'm concerned that if I have any issues it will be a hassle to deal with. This could be a big issue, so I decide to check the internet for reviews on the CX706. I find a few reviews / threads about Craftex lathes and Busy Bee in general and after reading those reviews I've decided not to get a Busy Bee machine. Based on some threads in this forum, their after sales service / warranty is beyond terrible. If parts are needed they will likely come from China and that will take several months.

One of the members on this forum has a thread about his experience with his new Busy Bee lathe that had a catastrophic failure with less than 10 hrs on it. He went through h*ll and a long process just to get the company to agree there was a manufacturing flaw and agree to provide replacement parts but he had to pay for shipping. He was dealing with the same Busy Bee dealer I was talking to. I found other threads that echoed similar experiences and based on that info I have decided not to get a lathe from that company. In fact I've decided to keep the lathe I have, knowing that I have a dealer that will bend over backwards to work with me to resolve any issues I have. I called him back and told him of my decision and the reasons for it. I also told him I would fix the saddle clamp issue. He thanked me for loyalty and said to "use the bejesus out of the lathe" during the warranty period and if there are any issues he will look after me. At least I know I WILL get great service from him. Oh ya King has a parts warehouse in Quebec so parts are only days or a week or so away. I know that for sure because they sent me a new motor for my recently purchased milling machine and I had that within a week.

A big thumbs up  for Rod at KMS Tools in Kamloops for being a stand up, customer oriented dealer. No I don't have any affiliation with him or KMS Tools and if you read the whole thread it will be obvious.


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## Finster (Mar 11, 2016)

So let me get this straight, you have a new King mill and it needed a motor already? Not even to mention the endless problems with this lathe. Does King make a brand for the states? If so, I'm staying away from it.


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## TOOLMASTER (Mar 11, 2016)

if you paid with a credit card they may be able to help you.


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## Reeltor (Mar 11, 2016)

TOOLMASTER said:


> if you paid with a credit card they may be able to help you.


Help with what?  The seller offered a full refund and the OP decided to keep the lathe.  Since the OP already had an issue with his mill and all the issues with this lathe; I'd definitely take the seller up on the offer for a total refund.
Most of these machines come out of the same factory in China; some minor tweaks between name brands.   Do without a lathe for now and shop for a used quality machine.  That Logan sure look worth investigating.


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## TOOLMASTER (Mar 11, 2016)

DIDN'T KNOW...never mind then


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## TommyD (Mar 12, 2016)

Good luck.


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## British Steel (Mar 14, 2016)

I'd be looking for a decent, used, American, European, Japanese or Taiwanese machine by now... That was my strategy when I went looking for my second lathe, I got a 1950's toolroom-class lathe, slightly scruffy with a couple of minor issues to fix, for less than a Chinese minilathe, although YMMV?

Having worked for an importer of Chinese machines, the OP's experience is unusual - he was offered replacement parts and eventually a refund - usually the buyer thinks the problem is THEM, not the machine!
I think many importers see "quality control" as "send it out, if they send it back we'll know there was something wrong (and sell it again anyway)" and don't bother making sure what they sell is usable.

Dave H. (the other one)


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## HBilly1022 (Mar 14, 2016)

British Steel said:


> I'd be looking for a decent, used, American, European, Japanese or Taiwanese machine by now... That was my strategy when I went looking for my second lathe, I got a 1950's toolroom-class lathe, slightly scruffy with a couple of minor issues to fix, for less than a Chinese minilathe, although YMMV?
> 
> Having worked for an importer of Chinese machines, the OP's experience is unusual - he was offered replacement parts and eventually a refund - usually the buyer thinks the problem is THEM, not the machine!
> I think many importers see "quality control" as "send it out, if they send it back we'll know there was something wrong (and sell it again anyway)" and don't bother making sure what they sell is usable.
> ...



I've looked for a used (non Chinese) lathe for a while and eventually gave up. Plus never having used or owned a lathe I had no idea what to look for, so buying used would be very risky, especially something that is old and parts hard to find. I've accepted that this lathe is not the best quality but the dealer I bought it from definitely is. That is the reason I decided to keep it. I know I can rely on him to assist me in getting any issues resolved during the warranty period. 

Another thing that made me feel more comfortable with this lathe is that when I went to check out the freight damaged lathe at the dealers, that lathe had none of the problems mine has / had. This suggested that I should be able to get my lathe to the same state by getting replacement parts. I took the entire carriage assembly from that lathe and I don't see any issues with those parts. As far as I can tell right now the only issue is that the leadscrew lifts when the half nuts are engaged. It works fine but I may try to fix this at some point. 

It's odd that you mention owners usually think they are the problem since that is the feeling I was getting from some of the staff at the dealers. Stating they have never had issues with these lathes before. Although I don't have any machining experience, I do have some natural mechanical aptitude and a logical mind. Therefore I believe I can figure out how things should work and what is causing something to not work properly. And now I have a whole community of hobby machinists to fall back on when I need answers to issues I can't resolve on my own.


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