# Buying a used BIAX scraper



## Richard King 2 (Jun 28, 2021)

Beware of  the old BIAX scrapers as the Newer Green motored ones that used a Metabo motor are scary for me .  I used to be able to buy repair parts from Metabo on those models.  DAPRA / BIAX stopped selling motor parts 15 years ago and Metabo was the only source.  Now Metabo  discontinued supporting those motors.   I have ben told by Ed Dyjack one of the remaining BIAX USA repair station and DAPRA one has a difficult time rebuilding the motors as the wire windings are so thin.  I have 8 of those green models :-( .  I discovered in Europe you could buy a saber saw made by Metabo that used the same motor.  But friends in Europe said they can't buy parts there either.  The European model number is a ST-EP 564.   The BIAX black model motors supposedly  are not compatible because of the drive worm gear is different.  I am temped to buy a new BIAX and check, but the new models sell for over $4000.00 .  So I want to limp along using the green ones as long as possible.   A student in Oregon bought a green motor Biax on eBay for $2500.00.  thinking he could use it for a while....he is now worried like me.   Just thought everyone should know.   Rich


----------



## eeler1 (Jun 29, 2021)

So, old blue biax are ok?


----------



## Richard King 2 (Jun 29, 2021)

eeler1 said:


> So, old blue biax are ok?


No...those motors were obsolete  40 years ago.  I only have 1, I bought for $300.00 a couple of years ago.  It was like new.  Im looking at Delta drill motors, they may fit....rich


----------



## JRaut (Jun 30, 2021)

Richard King 2 said:


> No...those motors were obsolete  40 years ago.


That may be true if you're rebuilding machines professionally, as you are.

But for us hobby guys, a more relative viewpoint seem appropriate.

I've got one of those old blue Biax scrapers and it serves me just fine for my once-in-a-blue-moon usage frequency.

My Logan lathe from 1945 and my 'CNC' Bridgeport from 1985 have both been "obsolete" for decades, but they still work great in my shop.


----------



## Janderso (Jun 30, 2021)

This is a good opportunity for someone to get creative and come up with a way to refit a quality power tool.
We have seen some attempts on Youtube, but lack the stroke adjustment capabilities.
Looks like a worthy collaborative group project 
I'm not smart enough or creative.


----------



## Richard King 2 (Jun 30, 2021)

I was telling folks so they knew.  I have a Blue one too,   I know dozens of people, pro's and hobbyists who have them.   My first power scraper was a blue one in 1972.  I used it for 10 years with-out issues.  You can add a Variac or router speed control to slow them down.  I'm not criticizing it, just helping folks out so they know.   I am not "rebuilding much now"  just teaching it


----------



## Richard King 2 (Jun 30, 2021)

Janderso said:


> This is a good opportunity for someone to get creative and come up with a way to refit a quality power tool.
> We have seen some attempts on Youtube, but lack the stroke adjustment capabilities.
> Looks like a worthy collaborative group project
> I'm not smart enough or creative.


I've seen and tested some of those home made ones.  They have to take it apart to change the stroke.... or the ones I saw.  After the builder test a real BIAX, the home made one ended up in the bottom of his tool box...


----------



## ErichKeane (Jun 30, 2021)

Richard King 2 said:


> I've seen and tested some of those home made ones.  They have to take it apart to change the stroke.... or the ones I saw.  After the builder test a real BIAX, the home made one ended up in the bottom of his tool box...


Because he gave up on doing scraping, or because he shelled out for a Biax?  At a certain point the used price of a Biax (They seem to have more than doubled in value in the last ~3-4 years!) is going to make some home-made one 'good enough'.

Its a shame there is no 'consumer' version of the tool.  The mechanism isn't much more complicated than a jig-saw or saws-all, but I realize the market is small enough to make designing one not particularly profitable.  Still, I wonder if it is just a chicken-and-egg problem: the entry cost of machine-rebuilding scraping is so high [0] because it is such a small hobby, but the hobby is so small because the cost-of-entry is so high.


[0]unless i want to spend the next 10 years with a $100 hand-scraper + whatever-cost tool-grinder


----------



## ErichKeane (Jun 30, 2021)

ErichKeane said:


> Because he gave up on doing scraping, or because he shelled out for a Biax?  At a certain point the used price of a Biax (They seem to have more than doubled in value in the last ~3-4 years!) is going to make some home-made one 'good enough'.
> 
> Its a shame there is no 'consumer' version of the tool.  The mechanism isn't much more complicated than a jig-saw or saws-all, but I realize the market is small enough to make designing one not particularly profitable.  Still, I wonder if it is just a chicken-and-egg problem: the entry cost of machine-rebuilding scraping is so high [0] because it is such a small hobby, but the hobby is so small because the cost-of-entry is so high.
> 
> ...



The OTHER question is whether we can get a cheaper/homemade version to be 'good enough' for the hobbyist.  Ryobi exists for woodworking, but the first time a Ryobi owner picks up an M18/Mikita/etc, they realize what they are missing!  I did the same with dial calipers.  I used to use Fowlers or some other mediocre quality import (which are good enough), but as soon as I felt a Starrett/B&S, those imports ended up at the bottom of my toolbox.


----------



## Richard King 2 (Jun 30, 2021)

There are things one can do,  The Vacaville guys who eeler, John York, ultama, Rex Waters (sorry I am screwing up these names) is a member buys tools and shares them.  They have a group or it could be called a scraping club meet and share tools...Some find bargains on eBay and a few have bought new.  Many times student who take the classes don't want to learn how to Biax Power scrape and only hand scrape as they figure they will never be able to afford one.  That is why I said, one of you needs to figure out a to convert another brand motor to the thousands of Biax's out there.  Stefan Gottswinter (you tuber and student) had a another German made power scraper and after he used a BIAX he sold it.   I have only seen one here in the USA.  I'll have to remember the name and ad it later.   Schmeege I think.


----------



## Richard King 2 (Jul 8, 2021)

I have heard from 2 students, one is the friend of the other who is an engineer entrepreneur.  He attended MIT and is going to work on a fix for this issue.  He believes he has found a $100.00 power tool motor that will bolt right on or he will make a a small adapter plate.  So we will have a fix.  I will keep everyone in the loop when I hear more.


----------



## Janderso (Jul 8, 2021)

Richard King 2 said:


> I've seen and tested some of those home made ones.  They have to take it apart to change the stroke.... or the ones I saw.  After the builder test a real BIAX, the home made one ended up in the bottom of his tool box...


Oh I get it.
Richard, there is a real need for a Biax for many DIY want to rebuilders out there. IMHO
But to put out $3,500 or more for a power scraper is just stupid.
The clapped out Ebay finds for $2,000 is also ridiculous. IMHO


----------



## Janderso (Jul 8, 2021)

Richard King 2 said:


> There are things one can do,  The Vacaville guys who eeler, John York, ultama, Rex Waters (sorry I am screwing up these names) is a member buys tools and shares them.  They have a group or it could be called a scraping club meet and share tools...Some find bargains on eBay and a few have bought new.  Many times student who take the classes don't want to learn how to Biax Power scrape and only hand scrape as they figure they will never be able to afford one.  That is why I said, one of you needs to figure out a to convert another brand motor to the thousands of Biax's out there.  Stefan Gottswinter (you tuber and student) had a another German made power scraper and after he used a BIAX he sold it.   I have only seen one here in the USA.  I'll have to remember the name and ad it later.   Schmeege I think.


As one of the members of "the Vacaville group", we have a few guys-Rex, who are very accomplished Biax users. Rex has one, I believe, but he has more money than Elon Musk  .
It would be a good idea to spread out the expense and share. I just don't know how many members would be interested in rebuilding a machine tool and spending the money to wait to use the wonderful device??

Richard, as a courtesy to you. The SVHSM members that are active on this forum are,

Rex Walters
eeler1 Jon
Bob Korves-hasn't posted in a long time
talvare Ted
Aaron_w
Janderso Jeff
Nut Farmer -Steve
Achipo Evan
Benmychree -John

Cheers


----------



## Bob Korves (Jul 27, 2021)

Removed and re-posted below...


----------



## Bob Korves (Jul 27, 2021)

I'm BAAAACK, Jeff!  And quite happy to be here again...

I have an old blue Biax that I bought for $125 (if my memory is correct... ;-)  It was loose as a goose in the slide ways from wear as purchased, but the motor and everything else were working just fine, and it came with the factory box and some extra tooling, in working condition and nothing was broken.  I was able to re-work the slide ways so it is a lot tighter than it was, pretty close to new as far as how it performs.  Keep on the lookout for a decently priced Biax that works, and jump on it as soon as you can!  Building a new one from scratch that will actually do good and comfortable work seems to not often be a trivial project that does good work.  Sure, it is fun to build our own tooling, but sometimes it pays to just get the tried and true and get to work on making stuff we really want to make...  Bob K.


----------



## Richard King 2 (Jul 27, 2021)

I'm getting ready to buy a couple of new Biax Scrapers in a week or 2.  I am going to sell 2 or 3 of my old green ones on eBay as I want an auction and won't favor anyone.  My starting bid will be around $2400.00


----------



## Janderso (Jul 27, 2021)

BobKorves said:


> I'm BAAAACK, Jeff!  And quite happy to be here again...
> 
> I have an old blue Biax that I bought for $125 (if my memory is correct... ;-)  It was loose as a goose in the slide ways from wear as purchased, but the motor and everything else were working just fine, and it came with the factory box and some extra tooling, in working condition and nothing was broken.  I was able to re-work the slide ways so it is a lot tighter than it was, pretty close to new as far as how it performs.  Keep on the lookout for a decently priced Biax that works, and jump on it as soon as you can!  Building a new one from scratch that will actually do good and comfortable work seems to not often be a trivial project that does good work.  Sure, it is fun to build our own tooling, but sometimes it pays to just get the tried and true and get to work on making stuff we really want to make...  Bob K.


Bob,
You want to triple your money on that Biax??


----------



## Bob Korves (Jul 27, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Bob,
> You want to triple your money on that Biax??


I was not born yesterday, Jeff..., and I plan to keep it!  -Bob


----------



## Janderso (Sep 14, 2021)

OK Uncle Bob, don't forget me in your will


----------

