# Craftsman Lathe Build Dates ?



## cbtrek

I have a Craftsman 101.2140 Lathe, Serial # 001611 and would like to know when it was built. 

The Manual, part #610572, no date. 

The GREEN Lathe Bulletin T106L-1 dated June, 1945 / other side, Lathe Bulletin T6L-2 dated March 1957

The BLUE Lathe Bulletin T106L-2 dated July, 1945 

All was in a Blue / Green envelope


Anybody have a source?  

Thanks,
Craig


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## wa5cab

Craig,

I think that you mean 101.21400.  This is the Timken bearing Atlas 618 and appeared in the Sears catalogs from 1957 through 1972.  The Bulletins are Atlas numbers and for the most part apply to this model and to the earlier sleeve bearing Sears model 101.07301 made from about 1939 to 1956.  The Timken and sleeve bearing versions differ only in some of the headstock parts.  

Absent the original sales paperwork, the only way to fairly accurately date the Timken bearing model is to pull the spindle and read the acceptance date engraved in the bearings.  The lathe will have been assembled within a few months of the later of the two dates.

Robert D.


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## cbtrek

Sorry it took so long to respond but I could not find another web page that I found with a little data that may help or not.

A new unused 101.21400, Serial # 000198 with the original shipping box with a date of 8/17/71. The label on the box is from the Clausing Corporation to Sears.

http://www.flywheelmachinetools.com/MAINMACHINEPAGE.html


There should be something on the different Craftsman label.

Looks like I would have to take the spindle out to find out, but not until there is a problem.


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## wa5cab

Craig,

I went through all of the serial number and date databases I've come across and did not find a single valid date for a 101.21400.  Sorry.  However, based on only the two points and the known catalog dates (years), I would guess that yours was probably made in 1957.  I don't blame you for not wanting to pull the spindle just to see the dates!

The 101.21400 and Atlas 618 serial numbers don't have any relation.  Atlas made three (or possibly four) major variants of the 6".  The Timken bearing 612 and 618 with 1"-10 spindle nose were made as early as 1937 (earliest Atlas catalog that I've come across) and as late as about 1972.  But Sears didn't start selling them until 1957.  The Craftsman model 101.07300 appeared first (and only) in the 1938 catalog.  It had split bronze sleeve bearings and a 3/4"-16 spindle nose with 3/8" diameter through hole.  In the 1939 catalog, the 101.07301 with a redesigned headstock and larger spindle with 1"-8 nose and 17/32" dia. through hole appeared.  It also had bronze sleeve bearings.  Sears sold this model until 1956,  after which they sold the 101.21400 (same as 618) and the serial numbers started over.

The serial number of the new 101.21400 you found listed for sale is not 198.  The seller showed it as 0198## so he means it is 019800 to 019899.  I don't know why people do this but it's common on vintage vehicles and high end (meaning expensive when made and expensive today) radios.  A lot of people don't want to put the actual serial number up in print, either hard copy or internet.  So they replace the last two or three digits with some other symbol.

Robert D.


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## cbtrek

Thank You for your data. 

I knew what the seller told me was wrong, he was going by some of the old 1945 paperwork he had with the lathe. His dad bought it new but the Craftsman badge was not correct.


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## David S

Cbtrek, where do you get those belts that you are using.. or perhaps better what are they?  I have an Atlas 618.. not craftsman that I purchased years ago from the original owner.  He dated the inside of the manul 1949.. I think the vertical belt going from the motor to the jackshaft is original and in bad need of replacement.  It is not the correct belt for the pulley grooves but if I can't get a belt the right length and fit I may have to adjust the motor...which I would rather not do.

Thank you

David


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## cbtrek

I got mine at McMaster Carr, I added the link below. Other places also sell them but I get parts shipped UPS ground in one to two days and they offer a bigger range of widths. They work great cutting the belt sound and they are very easy to install with out having to take your machine apart. You can never get the wrong length, you can add or remove links until correct. They come in 5 different widths to fit your needs. I used 3/8' for my lathe and 1/2" for my drill press. You will need needle nose pliers to help pull the tab through to lock the tab. I cut a good belt off so I could install then. They cost more then belts but they are worth it!

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/119/1042/=lpzskj


*Adjustable-Length Round Belting*





Install or replace belts in just seconds without taking your drive components apart.Simply use this belting, which allows you to add or remove links with a quick twist of the wrist.Belting is made of urethane elastomer that's reinforced with polyester fabric. You can use it to replace urethane, rubber, and leather round belts. Color is red.*To Order:* Please specify length up to a maximum length of 25 ft.

[


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## wa5cab

Are you saying that it's actually an Atlas, not a Craftsman?

Robert D.



cbtrek said:


> Thank You for your data.
> 
> I knew what the seller told me was wrong, he was going by some of the old 1945 paperwork he had with the lathe. His dad bought it new but the Craftsman badge was not correct.


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## cbtrek

It is a Craftsman made by Atlas. By the Craftsman logo design (1st Photo), I knew it was not what he told me, 1946.

The 2nd photo is from my restored 109 lathe (I know for sure) this logo was still being used on the 1949 craftsman equipment, I have the tool catalog. I have a 1959 catalog coming next week.


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## wa5cab

OK. You meant that you knew that the Craftsman lable was wrong for the mid to late 40's. 

You will find the 101.21400 in the 1959 Power Tools catalog. There wasn't a 1958 Power Tools catalog but I managed to acquire copies of the lathe pages out of the Fall 1957 and Spring and Fall 1958 Big Books. The last catalog appearance of the 101.07301 is in the 1957 Power Tools catalog. The first appearance of the 101.21400 is in the Fall 1957 Big Book. Serial Number 0198xx was apparently sold in 1971. If we assume a fairly uniform sales rate over the 14 years from 1957 to 1971, Serial Number 001611 would have been made at a guess mid 1958. If sales tapered off in the last years, that would push it back to early 1958 if sales started off good instead of slowly ramping up.

With the exceptions of 1965, I have scans (or originals) of either the Power Tools catalogs or the lathe pages out of the Big Books from 1931 through 1982. And I already know that the Atlas lathes were not listed in the Big Books in 1979, 1980 or 1981. Wish that I could find some more Atlas catalogs. Only have about six over the same period.

Robert D.


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## omsrof

wa5cab said:


> OK. You meant that you knew that the Craftsman lable was wrong for the mid to late 40's.
> 
> You will find the 101.21400 in the 1959 Power Tools catalog. There wasn't a 1958 Power Tools catalog but I managed to acquire copies of the lathe pages out of the Fall 1957 and Spring and Fall 1958 Big Books. The last catalog appearance of the 101.07301 is in the 1957 Power Tools catalog. The first appearance of the 101.21400 is in the Fall 1957 Big Book. Serial Number 0198xx was apparently sold in 1971. If we assume a fairly uniform sales rate over the 14 years from 1957 to 1971, Serial Number 001611 would have been made at a guess mid 1958. If sales tapered off in the last years, that would push it back to early 1958 if sales started off good instead of slowly ramping up.
> 
> With the exceptions of 1965 , I have scans (and a few originals) of either the Power Tools catalogs or the lathe pages out of the Big Books from 1931 through 1982. And I already know that the Atlas lathes were not listed in the Big Books in 1979, 1980 or 1981. Wish that I could find some more Atlas catalogs. Only have about five over the same period.
> 
> Robert D.



5/10/13

Hi Robert D.

I just acquired a Craftsman 6" lathe --model 101.07301, S/N 6L-028211.

Do you have any info on when this was built or links to any more info - I need parts, especially tailstock which is missing.

I'm not sure how I will get reply on hobby-machinist website ( which I just joined last week ) so you can send any info you have directly to me at omsrof@gmail.com

I'm not sure how to attach pictures here so if you email me I can send pics of my lathe.

Thanks,

Dennes F


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## wa5cab

Dennes,

The first thing that we can say is that it must have been made between 1939 and 1956 as those are the first and last years that the 101.07301 appeared in any Sears catalog. Beyond that, Clausing (formerly Atlas) has no manufacturing or sales data on any of the lathes. I have access to four lists (databases) that have places to enter Model Number, Serial Number and Date Made. Between the four, there are only about 240 entries. Of those, there are only about 15 101.07301's. And of those, there are only two that have entries for both Serial Number and Date or Year Made. One of the two has a question mark following the year. I assume that probably means the year was based on family memory of the sort that goes "Your uncle bought that lathe not long after the War.".  Both years shown are 1947 so only one can be used at a time as the Serial Numbers are about 2500 apart. Anyway, doing a crude straight-line approximation from 1939 on one and then the other and assuming (since there is no data from which to do otherwise) the same number of lathes were sold each year, I get for yours 1949 and 1950. Pending any better data surfacing, I would go with 1949.

During the years that Atlas was making and Sears was selling the 101.07301, Atlas was also making and selling the 618 (and a few 612). In 1957, Atlas stopped making the 101/07301 for Sears and Sears begain selling 6he 618 under the Model Number 101.21400. The complete tailstock and all parts in it are the same on all four models (over the years the paint colors or shades may not have matched). If you look on eBay, you will quite often find ones for sale. And parts for them. They may be advertised under any combination of the Model Numbers. In about 1974 Atlas quit making the 618 and the 101.21400 and started making the 3950 (for one year) and then the 10100. Sears sold the 10100 under 101.21200.  There was also a metric model 10200 but I don't think Sears ever sold it. Although the tailstock on those machines looks different (square corners like the Chinese imports), all of the parts used except for the main casting, ram screw and handwheel are the same as in the earlier ones. So you could use one of those if you had to.

Robert D.


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## Jamiethesquid

I just picked up a 101.21400 today.  Serial number 000450. Didn't have a motor, came with a bunch of tooling. Could one of you measure the diameter of your 2 step pulley that is on the motor shaft, think I may be missing this part.  Everything seems to operate smoothly. I am going to do a complete refurb and paint over the next couple weeks. Best thing is that I only paid $50 for it!  What is the standard horsepower and speed rating of the motor this came with. I have a couple donor motors to choose from.


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## Jamiethesquid

Here is a pic


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## wa5cab

Jaimie,

We don't currently have the diameter specs on either the M6-428 (1/2" bore) or M6-429 (5/8" bore) motor pulley for all of the 6" Atlas lathes.  Hopefully, someone will measure theirs and chime in.

The original motor recommended for the 618 and 101.07301 was 1/4 HP 1725 RPM.  Within a few years, they upped the recommendation to 1/3 HP, although some catalogs continued to list 1/4 HP as the minimum.  You don't really need anything larger than 1/3 (honest, not Chinese) but in any case, don't put anything larger than 1/2 HP on it.

We don't have any firm dates on any of the 6" machines but the 101.21400 first appeared in the Fall 1957 Sears Big Book.  So yours probably dates from late 1957 or early 1958.

Robert D.


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## Jamiethesquid

Thanks for the info.  I am going to look tonight when I get home to see if the original pulley is in the box of parts, I quickly went through it yesterday and thought about the pulley hours later.  I figure if someone can roger up with a rough OD for these pulleys I can either buy a part or I can source / modify one and get damn close to the original.  I am even thinking about making one on my 1940 15" Leblond.  Sounds like it would be a fun project.


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## wa5cab

Jaimie,

There is a drawing of the 10"/12" motor pulley under the Atlas folder in Downloads.  The Atlas part number is 10-428.  The one that you need is M6-428 (1/2" bore) or M6-429 (5/8" bore).  When you get your hands on one of the latter two, you might mark up that drawing and send it to me to upload.  It won't do any good for you to upload it as it will go into the moderation que which no one currently has access to.

Robert D.


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## Jamiethesquid

Robert, you've lost me. Where is the download folder that you
are referring to, and are you saying that the motor pulley is the same size as that on the 10" / 12" machine?


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## wa5cab

Jaimie,

I'm sorry.  I didn't check your post count before I wrote that.  Access to Downloads is slightly restricted because early on we had several people from other sites join, download several hundred files to upload to their site, and quit.  The system is currently set to give access to Downloads when either a member goes over 30 posts (you are at 6 as I write this, and please don't make 25 posts that all say something like "This is just to get me over the stupid post limit" as they will get deleted) or they make a donation (I don't know whether there is a minimum amount set, but $10.00 will work).  When either of those requirements are met, a clickable line item saying "Downloads" will show up on the Drop-down under the "For Members" button in the main command ba (note that although the post count criteria will be applied immediately by the server, the donor status has to be done manually because of some problem with a recent software update, so it won't be instantaneous).

Back to the pulley - No, the 6" and 10"/12" motor pulleys are not the same.  For one thing, the belt widths are different.  I don't, as I wrote earlier, know what the dimensions are of the 6" pulleys but I know that they are different because (a) the belts are smaller in width and (b) the part numbers are different.  The early (up through about 1957) Atlas part numbers identify the machine that the part was first used on.  And the 6" pulley is M6-428 or M6-429 whereas the drawing is for 10-428.  If that pulley had been used on the 6", the part number would have remained 10-428.

The reason that I suggested downloading the 10"/12" pulley drawing is that when you or we get the diameters and center to center spacing for the 6" version, it would save a lot of time to just edit or mark up the 10" drawing.  Knowing the motor belt Industry standard part number (supposed to be 3L210 for the 6"), you can get the dimensions for the Vee's out of Machinery's Handbook.

Robert D.


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## Jamiethesquid

Again Robert, Thanks for the great info, I am excited to start running this lathe and I will either locate a suitable Atlas part for the motor shaft or I will start running it with a temporary pulley of the correct width and a midrange size to get me started.  I am going to continue cleaning it up and start the fabrication of a steel stand this weekend.  I am still hopeful that one of the other forum members that has one of these will reply with a measurement of the OD of the two step pulley.

From there, as you said I can purchase a commercial replacement, or I have some Aluminum stock that I can use to make a set.  Really shouldn't be that complicated, I will rough out all the dimensions and make a form tool for the "V"  Would be a handy skill to develop, so in the future I can create precisely the size of pulley I need.  I have plans to build a Power Hacksaw in the very near future.


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## railroader

Folks,

I just bought a "Master Craftsman" lathe with the following stamped on the way:  101L5A319S

Can anyone help me figure out when it was made?

It is a sweet machine, well taken care of


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## wa5cab

Chris (please sign posts),

That is the longest, wierdest and probably earliest serial number string that I have seen on a Craftsman lathe.  The actual serial number part of it is the 319.  As the Craftsman 12" lathes first appear in the 1936 Power Tools Catalog and as the line (or part of it) was built up to mid 1957 at a serial number of at least 41832 (the highest number we have), my first guess would be that it was probably made in 1936.  However, except for the metal badge on the headstock, everything else present matches the photo in the 1937 catalog.  So maybe late 1936.

The Model Number is probably either 101.07381 (if it has back gears) or 101.07361 (if it doesn't).

As to the rest of what's stamped on the bed, "101" is the Sears contractor code for Atlas.  This is the only reported example of "101" being stamped on the bed.  "L5" seems to be the Atlas part number prefix (or one of them) used for 12" parts that were different from the corresponding part on the 10".  They also used L2 and L3 but we have no idea what the digit signifies.  The "A" is unknown.  The "S" suffix might stand for "Sears".  Although quite a few 10" have it as well.  

Anyway, does it have back gears?  When I know the answer to that, I can put it into the database.

Robert D.


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## railroader

Thank you, Robert

There are no back gears.

I'm looking for a belt cover (over the headstock) and a gear cover (a hinged door covering the gears on the far left side of the headstock).  I found a guy on E-bay who is helping me.  Any suggestions are welcome.

Cheers

Chris Schilling
Winter Haven, Florida
989 430-6980


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## railroader

Robert,

Can you tell me which file on the downloads page has the early catalog you mentioned?

I can only download one file at a time; as I get the message, "you have reached your download quota for the day."

Thank you

Chris Schilling
Winter Haven, Florida
989 430-6980


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## wa5cab

Chris,

OK.  I assume that there is no nameplate present.  I don't know why, but probably 90% of the ones that have been repainted, whomever did it didn't bother to put the nameplate back on.  The mounting holes for the two back gear brackets should be present.  

So that makes the most likely model number 101.07361.  This model had the same change gear cover as all of the later models but you still need to find one with the early 96T thread settings plate inside of it.  The three models ending in "2" and the three ending in "3" (instead of those ending in "0" and "1") all had the later change gears and no 96T.  This model did not have a belt cover. And as it had no back gears, it did not have the two individual gear covers.  So aside from the color and the missing change gear cover, it looks just like it did when new.

I haven't uploaded any of the Craftsman catalogs to Downloads..  The upload limit for PDF's used to be set to 10 MB and although the 1937 is just under that, many are over it.  The limit is now 20 MB so I may start uploading them.  In any case, I just uploaded the 1937 one, and the title is Craftsman Power Tools Catalog 1937.PDF.  Note that the photograph on page 16 is of the 101.07381, with back gears.  Yours is the one referred to as the 8-speed model (no back gears), catalog number ending in 2028.  The photo on page 14 is of a stripped down version of the one on page 17.  The latter being a 101.07401.  It came with a belt cover but yours didn't.  However, nothing wrong with adding it, if you want to.

When you reach 30 posts, the daily limit should go away.  So I'm told.

Robert D.


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## railroader

Robert,

Thanks for answering my questions.  You are a good man.

I guess I'm not sure about the back gear question (i'm ignorant).

Can you tell from the photos below if I have a back gear?







Thank you

Chris Schilling
Winter Haven Florida
989 430 6980


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## railroader

Robert,

I might be wrong, but are these the bolt holes you referred to for the back gears?

Thank you

Chris Schilling
Winter Haven Florida
989 430 6980




I also wanted to mention that the nameplate on the motor looks cool:


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## railroader

Robert, I should have done my homework before bothering you with the back gear question.

Thanks a million for downloading the catalog, because it clearly shows I have no back gears.

Mine has the "counter shaft assembly" shown on the bottom of page 14.

I'm searching for belt/gear covers, such as in this photo I found on the web below.  Any suggestions for a vendor would be great.

Cheers




Thanks again

Chris Schilling
Winter Haven Florida
989 430 6980


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## wa5cab

Chris,

Yes, the three holes (two tapped) in the back of the headstock shown in the most recent photograph of your machine are the holes for mounting the right (left in the photograph) change gear bracket.  The tapped holes for the left bracket are also used to attach the belt tension lock (bar or plate).  The unused third hole through the lock is for the alignment pin for the (not present) left back bear bracket.

As for a vendor for the covers, I don't know of anyone who presently has either for sale.  You might try http://www.mymachineshop.net/ .  Joel has had such things in the past.  Otherwise, put a Wanted post in the Wanted forum at the extreme bottom of the list of fora.  And one in the Classifieds.  Otherwise, eBay.

Robert D.


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## mecompco

Jamiethesquid said:


> Again Robert, Thanks for the great info, I am excited to start running this lathe and I will either locate a suitable Atlas part for the motor shaft or I will start running it with a temporary pulley of the correct width and a midrange size to get me started.  I am going to continue cleaning it up and start the fabrication of a steel stand this weekend.  I am still hopeful that one of the other forum members that has one of these will reply with a measurement of the OD of the two step pulley.
> 
> From there, as you said I can purchase a commercial replacement, or I have some Aluminum stock that I can use to make a set.  Really shouldn't be that complicated, I will rough out all the dimensions and make a form tool for the "V"  Would be a handy skill to develop, so in the future I can create precisely the size of pulley I need.  I have plans to build a Power Hacksaw in the very near future.



Jaimie, how's the lathe project coming? Here's mine, before I cleaned it up a little. It is a 101.07383. It seems to run well, though I have not done much with it yet. It does make a lot of noise but the chuck spins. Perhaps someone has an idea about how to smooth out the belt/motor/pulley noise?





Regards,
Michael


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## wa5cab

Jamie,

I thought I had answered this pulley dimension question earlier but maybe it was over on Yahoo.  There is in Downloads a dimensioned photograph of an M6-428 6" motor pulley.  Someone (if I knew whom, I would have put his name on the PDF) took an edge-view photograph of an M6-428 and dimensioned it.  And I cleaned it up a bit.  I am not too confidant about a couple of the dimensions but it would do I think.  The V-grooves should be made according to the dimensions given in Machinery's Handbook for a 2L pulley instead of using the dimensions shown.  And the V-groove to V-groove center to center dimensions should be the same as on the countershaft pulley.  The diameter dimensions given should be close enough to work.

Robert D.


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## Jamiethesquid

Thanks Robert.  I will check that out. 


Jamie


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## MSgt Dave

Hi! Everyone.
I have a Craftsman Metal lathe that my father-in-law said was pre WW-II.  It's a101.07301 model with a metal late for the logo attached to the end of the gear covers.  It is the shape of the above stick-on, but is pinned to the housing.  The serial number, I think, is aI_027125.   
He says the booklet may or may not be the original, don't know.

Any help in dating it is appreciated as he is no longer with us and it is a full lathe including the change gears for different threads.


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## cross thread

Hi Dave , interesting your machine has a serial # , mine does not , just the 101.07301 tag . Here is a website that talks about all things Atlas http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman6inchmk1/
Lathes UK is a good resource , but please talk about your machine here . I found some interesting things about my machine , I believe it was a machine built when Atlas was making the first back geared 6 inch machines so I think they were using up parts on hand making the transition  . The first 6 inch machine was made 37' it had no back gear , it also had a LH 3/8-20 double lead cross feed screw also the first 6 inch machines (non back gear) did not have a leaf spring clip to hold the gear cover in place . My machine has the 3/8-20 lead screw and no leaf spring clip and no way to fit one .
Some pictures of your machine would be nice .
Good luck , Mark .


DSCF2546 by mark westi, on Flickr


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## wa5cab

Dave,

Where did you find the serial number?  Given the S/N, I will guess that it was stamped onto the nameplate which also has the model number 101.07301 made onto it.  And the nameplate is riveted to the right end of the bed.  The two characters stamped before the S/N should be 6L.  If the serial number is 027125, it was probably made in 1953.  

If the booklet that you mentioned is an Atlas MOLO (Manual of Lathe Operation), there should be a year printed on the Copyright page.  However, it is probably "1937" although it was probably printed in 1952 or 1953.  Not until 1954 did Atlas start printing the actual print year in the MOLO,  1937 is the year of the initial printing and copyright.  Despite the fact that up through 1953 there had been at least 6 0r 8 different revisions and 15 years of re-printing.  The one printed in 1954 was identified on the Copyright page as being the 16th edition.

If the booklet is an operators manual and parts list, it may not have a date on it.


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## wa5cab

Mark,

That was the first version of the Craftsman 6".  The first version of the Atlas 618 6" appeared a little earlier and aside from a few details, was mostly the same as the third and final version.  Meaning that it always had back gears, Timken bearings and 1"-10 spindle nose threads.  The only significant changes were that there were three versions of the countershaft assembly and two versions of the half nuts and associated parts.


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