# oxy acetilene tank dangers?



## CNC Dude (Dec 4, 2013)

Hi Group,

Recently I watched some of the Lazy Machinists videos on heat treatment and although I learned a lot, he also scared the feces out of me.

As he explained the cautions required with Oxy Acetilene tanks he mentioned it is imperative to maintain the tanks in a not too hot environment as the acetylene tank has some acetone used to stabilize the mixture. If the tank is stored in a too hot environment, it can become a hazard.

What the hell does this means in my case, beats me, and that is why I am asking.

I have my two tanks stored in my backyard shed here in North Dallas Texas. Temperatures can be as high as 115F, so I imagine inside of the shed it can get slightly higher due to poor air ventilation.

Am I storing a bomb? Will I blow up to kingdom come the next time I decide to weld something?

In a way I am thinking some of these fears are poorly founded considering the tanks would have been stored outside of a Home Depot which means they would have been subjected to some major heat as well. Maybe not as hot as inside a shed, but kind of similar.

Any input on previous experiences is superbly welcomed!


----------



## Tony Wells (Dec 4, 2013)

Nothing to worry about. The acetylene is dissolved in the acetone, kind of like CO2 in a soft drink. That's why you can only draw it out so fast and this limits the torch size you can use, basically. I suppose warmer acetone would liberate the gas a little faster, but you don't have a problem with storage like you have. Think of all the foundries and welding shops around, especially where the climate is warmer.....never hear of any problems. 

The only two incidences of accidents I can remember were long ago. One, a distributor (NCG) was virtually wiped off the foundation by a series of explosions due to leaking gas accumulating. This happened at night, so unlikely to be heat related. And if there were concerns about their storage conditions they would have known, being a distributor. I don't remember is they ever gave the ignition source. Like I said....long ago. There is another gas outfit on their location today. The other was from a leaking acetylene cylinder in a fab shop in a town near here. Just a fire. No explosions or anything, but the FD was called in and did their thing. I have stored my bottles in a shed before, never had any problems. 

And think about all the plumbers and A/C guys. Think your shed gets any hotter than their vans in the summer? Not too likely. Granted, they use smaller bottles, but never heard of any problems with them either. If you're really worried, and you have a right to be, talk to a supplier about proper storage conditions.


----------



## Bill C. (Dec 4, 2013)

avayan said:


> Hi Group,
> 
> Recently I watched some of the Lazy Machinists videos on heat treatment and although I learned a lot, he also scared the feces out of me.
> 
> ...



I think your outdoor temperature shouldn't be a problem.  Your gas supplier can tell you the maximum temperature your tanks can safely handle.  Just make sure all your tanks are securely mounted on a cart or storage shed.  Those big Oxygen tanks can be a deadly missile if they fall over and their valve is broken off.    Just give them some respect.


----------



## Uglydog (Dec 4, 2013)

Good question and safety point.
However, you are likely fine!
Please note the attached excerpt from: 

info@cedengineering.com
Fundamentals of Gas Cutting and Welding
Course No: D06-002

Daryl
MN


----------



## Todd (Dec 5, 2013)

the place i get my acet tanks from leaves them out back on a loading dock, hundreds of them in all sizes.  in the summer i picked on up from them and the tank was extremely hot to the touch, like getting in a black car on a hot sunny day and touching the metal seatbelt hot.  They have been doing it that wayforever and have never had an issue, so i would seem to think that the tank in youre shed is fine.  Also where the tanks are kept at my place, in a shed, been that way for longer than i have been alive and my dads never had an issue either.

Todd


----------



## tripletap3 (Dec 5, 2013)

Just FYI on the subject. Acetylene is bad bad stuff. Unlike gasoline, propane, and other gases, acetylene will ignite at almost any concentration and will spontaneously explode under too much pressure. Acetylene is also unstable, so is dissolved like Tony said to stabilize it. NEVER ever transport the bottle on its side or in any enclosed compartment like a trunk. I have been involved with several acetylene incidents. One was a acetylene explosion incident that involved a partially full small B type cylinder that is used by plumbers. It was stored in the tool box of a pick up truck and and the valve inadvertently cracked opened (not even a full turn) after the plummer left the last job of the day. During the night the truck exploded with such force it destroyed most of his house and parts of the truck were found 300 yards away. What impressed me is that the shock wave was so great that it collapsed a large above ground pool over 50 feet away. 

This is another unrelated local event that happened just this August. Keep in mind that this was caused by the same type of small portable acetylene bottle. 
http://www.wvec.com/my-city/vabeach/Truck-carrying--220338271.html
The story doesn't start until the 30 second mark, and the bottles shown are not the acetylene tank but refrigerant tanks thrown from the blast. Only one tank was involved and it was only the vapors that leaked from the tank not the tank itself.


----------



## sniggler (Dec 5, 2013)

I am going to disagree with shed storage on practical experience. Working in NYS area we have to have fire guard and torch operations certificates from FDNY really a two part test. Its all basic stuff but storing oxygen and acetylene bottles separately when not in use is among the main requirement them typically in cages at least 50 feet apart. 

We comply or get fined, that is construction we are expected to know and follow the rules. In the back yard welders world things are much different oxygen and acetylene are left of the bottle cart with the gages on in the corner of the shop until they are needed. In an open space like a large *DETACHED* garage that seems ok still a little stupid, gauges removed caps, is better. 

One of my sons also in construction was on a job in the Bronx it was a bad neighborhood and that had stored the bottles on the cart with gages on in side a locked conex box (to prevent theft), the kid opened the box it was dark inside he lit his lighter and was blown back out of the box, burns on his face and on his hands which all healed. Stupid and lucky at the same time.

My point is gas cylinders with flammable/explosive gas should not be stored in tight enclosed space where the gas can build up if there is a leak. I,m not preaching osha standards just common. Consider outside storage. does not need to be fancy.


----------



## burnrider (Dec 5, 2013)

[SUB]Secured in the upright position, no oil or hydrocarbon exposure to the O2 they should be fine.

Sniggler was right in posting all the rules for a work site. The more exposure to employees, bottles moved, and jobsite vandalism, increases danger. One-owner/user environments allows you to control those risks. 

Any of you remember the wrecking yards of the '60's? They used to drain the engine oil on the ground. It collected in pools, and car choppers dragged the welding hoses through the oil puddles to create spark and slag. Gas was so cheap, they never bothered to drain or remove a gas tank before taking a car apart. Some change is good.[/SUB]


----------



## sniggler (Dec 5, 2013)

thanks burnrider

I thing a lot of us here are familiar with best practices from our work environments and apply it to our home shops in a practical way like having a fire extinguisher near by that has some thing in it rather than wishing you had one been there.

sniggler

i miss those junk yards they use to just let you go get the part you needed yourself for a six-pack (deal for broke teenagers). we used to take our junkers there at night and block the gas peddle to full throttle and lock the doors at let it scream till it blew up, the old man would come out of the house in the middle of the junk yard half in the bag hollering trying to get in the car to shut it down with us watching from down the street - hey he got the car for free instead of the usual 50 bucks


----------



## Rbeckett (Dec 5, 2013)

Acetylene tanks all have a lead plug in the bottom that is designed to drain the tank if the temp gets too high.  Your O2 tank at 3000 PSI is more dangerous and both should be securely chained upright to prevent falls and the caps should always be screwed on over the valve when not being actively used.  A little common sense and basic caution and you will have no problems at all probably forever.   You would however be surprised at how many tanks are not properly stored and fall over and break the valves off regularly.  I always say if in doubt, add another chain or strap until you feel safe.  And don't forget to install flash back valves on your torches or regulators to prevent a backfire into the tanks.  Most kits today already include them but if not, you should invest the 12 or 14 buck and get a set immediately.  And remember....... ALWAYS use a striker and avoid using a lighter so that you don't get burned.

Bob


----------



## Douglasr (Dec 5, 2013)

I am in industrial construction and maintenance, my welding crews work with this daily. Your shed will not get to hot but when not in use the bottle are supposed to be 25' apart or have a fire wall capable of with a 5 minute rating in between them. Another point is to NEVER lay acy on its side, if this happens stand the bottle back upright and do not use for at least one hour. On its side the acetone separates out and make a very dangerous situation. If you need more information, you can contact your local compressed gas dealer. I supply my site, in south Alabama, from Gulf State Airgas and they are more than willing to answer your concerns. Regards


----------



## burnrider (Dec 5, 2013)

sniggler said:


> thanks burnrider
> 
> I thing a lot of us here are familiar with best practices from our work environments and apply it to our home shops in a practical way like having a fire extinguisher near by that has some thing in it rather than wishing you had one been there.
> 
> ...



Great Post:lmao:

Did you ever go to the 'destruction derbies'? Guys would buy cars for $50 and beat the hell out of each other until the radiator blew a smoke screen, or they passed out from concussion. People paid $2-4 at the local fairgrounds for a grandstand seat.  Safety belts were so far in the future, hard heads were standard OSHA issue. Don't know if life was cheap, or the beer for spectators.

American Graffiti wasn't just a movie- we lived it.


----------



## Spirit20 (Dec 5, 2013)

I had a large set of tanks in my old barn. Yes old barn, some arc welding sparks caught it on fire like big time. The oxy & *acetylene* blew their safety plugs during the fire, & shot a flame about 30 feet in the air. The tanks did not explode like the propane tanks did, that was an explosion.


----------

