# So I am Looking at this Table.... And it's NOT



## USMCDOC (Jun 15, 2017)

made of wood..!!!!

I am going to presume that these were decent rotary tables.. would you say that 150 is worth it.. ?

i know that it needs to be taken apart and cleaned up.. 

Oh.. edit.. It is a 6 inch.


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## mikey (Jun 15, 2017)

Kamakura is high end stuff. However, that one is a horizontal only table. If you're sure you won't need to use it vertically then $150.00 is a good price.


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## extropic (Jun 15, 2017)

Made in Japan. Sounds like a deal to me.

Will it sit with the drive mechanism over the table? On some, you have to hang the drive off the table.


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## extropic (Jun 15, 2017)

mikey said:


> Kamakura is high end stuff. However, that one is a horizontal only table. If you're sure you won't need to use it vertically then $150.00 is a good price.



An angle plate makes it a vertical, and then you have an angle plate too.


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## mikey (Jun 15, 2017)

extropic said:


> An angle plate makes it a vertical, and then you have an angle plate too.



True, but then you have to buy and true an angle plate and contend with the lost height in Z.


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## USMCDOC (Jun 16, 2017)

For the while, i will not need to go vertical with the rotary table.. 


mikey said:


> Kamakura is high end stuff. However, that one is a horizontal only table. If you're sure you won't need to use it vertically then $150.00 is a good price.


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## mikey (Jun 16, 2017)

Anything Kamakura is well made and usually expensive. Looks like it will clean up nice and would be a good deal if it was cared for and maintained. Good luck.


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## Uglydog (Jun 16, 2017)

Great value.
Depending on the size work you do you may get frustrated with the 6inch limitation.
However, remember that you might be able to add a fixture plate. But, that will also have limits.

Daryl
MN


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## USMCDOC (Jun 16, 2017)

The stuff that i am looking at doing should work well with the 6".. i will consider an 8" later, one that goes both ways..


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## USMCDOC (Jun 16, 2017)

Well, compared to the first pic, i have to say that it is looking a tad  better! I need to go to O'Reilly's tomorrow and pick up some Evapo-rust.


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## tweinke (Jun 16, 2017)

When I bought my rotary table I deluded myself into thinking a four inch would be plenty, and to top it off went cheap. Worked ok but should have went bigger was the thought during the first job. In hindsight after having to make a 6 inch dia fixture plate for the second job I think an 8 inch table would be better but is wider then my mill table by a bit so 6 may have to do. I think this all reinforces the buy as big as you can fit and afford. That looks to be a fine example of a good table and decent size so when you get it cleaned up it should be an asset in your tooling inventory!


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## USMCDOC (Jun 17, 2017)

i agree with ya, i don't think that this one will be my first one, i will for sure get another one later down the road, but the price was right, it is a 6" and the first thing that it will help me make is a cathead for the lathe. 



tweinke said:


> When I bought my rotary table I deluded myself into thinking a four inch would be plenty, and to top it off went cheap. Worked ok but should have went bigger was the thought during the first job. In hindsight after having to make a 6 inch dia fixture plate for the second job I think an 8 inch table would be better but is wider then my mill table by a bit so 6 may have to do. I think this all reinforces the buy as big as you can fit and afford. That looks to be a fine example of a good table and decent size so when you get it cleaned up it should be an asset in your tooling inventory!


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## USMCDOC (Jun 17, 2017)

Been cleaning it a lil today. 





As you can see, it does have a tab bit of pitting on the table and inside.. the oilers balls still work properly as far as i can tell and the the oiler on the worm.. i didn't see a felt.. so i guess i need to find one!


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## ch2co (Jun 17, 2017)

Nice work. I would love to get a 6" and get rid of my 4" piece of crap, but hey, it was free.  If you don't like it, I'm willing to take it off of your hands
for, say, $150?

CHuck the grumpy old guy


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## USMCDOC (Jun 17, 2017)

On another website i participate on i happen to be one of the "Grumpy Old Farts"! Thank you for compliment! But.. hmmm, if i were to sell it to you.. i would have to add my labor..


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## USMCDOC (Jun 18, 2017)

Ok.. this is as far as i go for now.. i have it all put back together.. and for now, best i can tell by just doing adjustments by eye, there is very lil backlash in it.. lets just say.. the zero lines, line up!


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## Headrc (Mar 17, 2019)

I know this thread is older, but I would like to ask if you miss having the vertical option with this table?  Thanks,  Richard


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## Latinrascalrg1 (Mar 17, 2019)

Headrc said:


> I know this thread is older, but I would like to ask if you miss having the vertical option with this table?  Thanks,  Richard



As someone stated above, you can mount your RT to an angle plate to work in the vertical plane.
The point made about dealing with the loss of Z-axis and cost of an angle plate is NOT really a factor because you would need to deal with both those issues in Some way regardless if you buy a horizontal only with a separate angle plate or a dual horizontal/vertical mount RT! You may or may not pay a bit more for an angle plate over the cost of the dual mount variety RT however you could also use that angle plate to do other work if needed which makes it more versatile.  Its hard to justify some of the tooling cost in a small hobbyshop setting especially when its something not used very often,  so having the ability to use what little tooling I have for different purposes really helps at times.


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## Uglydog (Mar 17, 2019)

Given a hobby shop and the tolerances normally required, consider looking for some very large and thick angle, or perhaps box tube, next time you are at the steel or scrap yard. When you get it home you may need to square and bring it closer to your tolerance needs then drill and tap. I've use similar drops on my welding table for set ups. No reason you couldn't do the same at the mill. 

However, make sure it's thick enough to provide the rigidity you need. You wouldn't want any vibration/chatter! 

Daryl
MN


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## projectnut (Mar 17, 2019)

Latinrascalrg1 said:


> As someone stated above, you can mount your RT to an angle plate to work in the vertical plane.
> The point made about dealing with the loss of Z-axis and cost of an angle plate is NOT really a factor because you would need to deal with both those issues in Some way regardless if you buy a horizontal only with a separate angle plate or a dual horizontal/vertical mount RT! You may or may not pay a bit more for an angle plate over the cost of the dual mount variety RT however you could also use that angle plate to do other work if needed which makes it more versatile.  Its hard to justify some of the tooling cost in a small hobbyshop setting especially when its something not used very often,  so having the ability to use what little tooling I have for different purposes really helps at times.



I've had an 8" horizontal only rotary table for years.  On the occasions I do need to use it in the vertical position I do as mentioned, bolt it to an angle plate.  Both the angle plate and the rotary table get used far more as independent pieces, but there's always a few times a year when they are used in conjunction.


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## hermetic (Mar 17, 2019)

Odd that "Kamakura machine tools" search brings no results, is the op sure that this is not a knock off of the well known Japaneese CNC manufacturer Nakamura?


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## Headrc (Mar 17, 2019)

All great ideas.  I am getting the feeling that the vertical position use is s stated "occasional" and the concept of the angle plate may be even a better solutio because it can be used for other purposes.  Thanks as always!


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## Winegrower (Mar 17, 2019)

I came across a 12” Bridgeport rotary table, and later added a matching angle bracket.  Matching because the bracket is not a single vertical plane surface, but has bossed holes lining up with the rotary table.   I’ve used the table a number of times, never the bracket.  What I learned is that 12” is none too big for real work...mounting the part solidly can take up a huge amount of room.   So buy the biggest rotary table you can afford.   The only downside is that it’s HEAVY!


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## Uglydog (Mar 17, 2019)

There are inexpensive shop made versions of RTs. You don't need to buy one.
Really depends on your needs, time, application, ability to make parts to desired tolerance, and of course what is left in your wallet at the end of the month.

Daryl
MN


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## darkzero (Mar 17, 2019)

hermetic said:


> Odd that "Kamakura machine tools" search brings no results, is the op sure that this is not a knock off of the well known Japaneese CNC manufacturer Nakamura?



Definitely not a knock off. Kamakura rotary tables are known to be high quality. They could have eventually been absorbed into what is Yuasa International today. Kamakura & another Japanese rotary table manufacturer used to make rotary tables labeled NEWS. From what I understand NEWS became Yuasa. Not for sure what happened to Kamakura, just speculating.


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## Mark Needham (Mar 18, 2019)

mikey said:


> True, but then you have to buy and true an angle plate and contend with the lost height in Z.


Also have to buy a mill to use it on. Does it ever end?


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## Latinrascalrg1 (Mar 18, 2019)

Mark Needham said:


> Also have to buy a mill to use it on. Does it ever end?


Well you need to buy a property or shelter to build the shop in so theres also that requirement!


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## projectnut (Mar 18, 2019)

Uglydog said:


> There are inexpensive shop made versions of RTs. You don't need to buy one.
> Really depends on your needs, time, application, ability to make parts to desired tolerance, and of course what is left in your wallet at the end of the month.
> 
> Daryl
> MN



Whenever I start a project one of the first parts of the process is a financial analysis.  If it's less expensive to purchase a needed tool that's generally the course I take.  There's always plenty to do outside the shop, so I don't often build something "just because I can".

I'm currently in the process of building this sheet metal brake:


			http://www.homemetalshopclub.org/projects/jrw_sheet_metal_brake.pdf
		


I find I could use one on an almost weekly basis, and the cost of a quality one is beyond what I am willing to spend.   In this case I have used the original plans as a guide, but increased the width to 36" rather than the original 24" in the drawings.  Like most other things I have done a bit of customization using some materials on hand.  

When all is said and done I expect the cost to be in the $250.00 range for materials.  Fortunately I didn't need to make or purchase any additional tools for the job, but I did have to make a number of fixtures.  Between making the fixtures and the sheet metal brake itself I expect I will have 80 to 100 hours in the project.   Since it's been a cold and snowy winter there's been enough time available.  If things go according to plan I should finish in the next week or so.  The project is wrapping up in a timely manner.  Now that spring is coming time in the shop will be more limited as there will be more than enough to do outside.


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## Toolmaker51 (Mar 19, 2019)

USMCDOC said:


> View attachment 235707
> 
> 
> Well, compared to the first pic, i have to say that it is looking a tad  better! I need to go to O'Reilly's tomorrow and pick up some Evapo-rust.


Evapo-rust is a reliable product, it says so... For a surprise and no chemical vs skin issues try any [but especially orange or cherry] citric hand cleaner pastes with pumice [mild abrasive, Moh's 6]. Dry oil, surface rust and usual subjects go away neatly. I won't say it's fast but quick enough. Use cheap versions of kitchen sponges, non-woven scrubbers, and toothbrushes. Also, you can belt sand or grind bristles to shorten [stiffen] them. An entire mill can be done some thing; oil, goo, coolants and sound paint remains.


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## Toolmaker51 (Mar 19, 2019)

darkzero said:


> Definitely not a knock off. Kamakura rotary tables are known to be high quality. They could have eventually been absorbed into what is Yuasa International today. Kamakura & another Japanese rotary table manufacturer used to make rotary tables labeled NEWS. From what I understand NEWS became Yuasa. Not for sure what happened to Kamakura, just speculating.


Yes, News merged into Yuasa, latter being the parent. There is tooling around called News-Yuasa reflecting the overlap sequence. Wonderful tooling, to be sure. Another great Japanese iron producer, unseen of late, Eron; vises, angle plates, mag-chucks, unique nesting parallels, every bit satisfactory as Yuasa, News, Lyndex-Nikken, Big-Daishowa, Showa, Tajima. Having bought personal tooling I use at jobs nearly 50 years, never regretted a dime on Japanese tools. We should be proud they allowed us mentor, and follow our lead. 
It'll be decades before remaining Asia can m-a-t-c-h domestic Japanese tools. Not sure they'll bother.


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## FOMOGO (Mar 19, 2019)

Long answer short, no.  Mike



Mark Needham said:


> Also have to buy a mill to use it on. Does it ever end?


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## projectnut (Mar 20, 2019)

Toolmaker51 said:


> Yes, News merged into Yuasa, latter being the parent. There is tooling around called News-Yuasa reflecting the overlap sequence. Wonderful tooling, to be sure. *Another great Japanese iron producer, unseen of late, Eron; vises, angle plates, mag-chucks, unique nesting parallels, every bit satisfactory as Yuasa, News, Lyndex-Nikken, Big-Daishowa, Showa, Tajima*. Having bought personal tooling I use at jobs nearly 50 years, never regretted a dime on Japanese tools. We should be proud they allowed us mentor, and follow our lead.
> It'll be decades before remaining Asia can m-a-t-c-h domestic Japanese tools. Not sure they'll bother.



Several years ago I purchased a couple Eron "Mules" from an equipment dealer in central Wisconsin.  He had about a dozen of them still new in the box.  I paid all of $10.00 for each of them.  I haven't seen or heard of them for quite some time, but recently a couple used ones showed up on eBay.  One has an asking price of $99.00 and the other is $89.00.








						SMALL ERON MULE DUAL V BLOCK FIXTURE MACHINIST TOOLING JIG LOT B  | eBay
					

USED, ERON MULE V BLOCK FIXTURE. NO CRACKS OR REPAIRS. THERE ARE SCUFFS, SCRATCHES AND WEAR FROM USE. LOOK AT THE PICTURES. NO EXCEPTIONS; NO MATTER HOW CLOSE YOU THINK YOU LIVE TO MY LOCATION. NO WARRANTIES GIVEN OR IMPLIED.



					www.ebay.com


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## Toolmaker51 (Mar 20, 2019)

I too have a pair those 'mules', one marked Eron, other an adhesive name plate for a machine company; both are Eron though. Great little fixture. While originals are cast iron, nothing in the world prevents duplicating with HR/ CR or better. It could be roughed out, assembled and finish milled to align dual Vees.  With cap screws or jig feet buttons, it will work nicely on a good surface. With table slots or arcs of shame, leave rails full length to 'ski' over openings


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## ezduzit (Mar 21, 2019)

Mine's a Troyka vertical/horizontal, 13" I think, heavy beast. So I store it where I can just slide it onto the mill table.


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## Toolmaker51 (Mar 21, 2019)

Troyke probably in best 3 brands aftermarket ro-tabs. My preference; Pratt & Whitney, not exactly aftermarket though. 
I won't reveal collection further. . .


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## Larry42 (Apr 9, 2019)

I'm envious.


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## pontiac428 (Apr 9, 2019)

I like my Kamakura RT. Good pick!









(from mobile)


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## kb58 (Apr 9, 2019)

Toolmaker51 said:


> ...It'll be decades before remaining Asia can m-a-t-c-h domestic Japanese tools. Not sure they'll bother.


Why should they bother when we will only pay for the low-end stuff... then complain about it. China just landed on the moon, so you know they have high end stuff just like us, but we won't pay for the quality stuff.

Back on topic, after seeing that the Precision Matthews 4" dividing head (with 5" chuck) weighs 51 lbs, and the 6" version weighs 91 lbs, I chose the small one and will make due.


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