# New 12z Owner Here



## Chris Bettis (Nov 9, 2015)

Well i figured id start a new thread. 
Before I get into details. A little about myself, I went to school for precesion machine tool at warren tech. I spent 2.5 years there learning everything from basic manual mills, lathes, and surface grinders to edm machines, cnc machines, and even a breif crash course in plastic injection molding. I was taught everything I know by an old school master tool and die maker. Since then I've worked in the industry as a cnc operator in a production shop. 
However I  soon discovered the best way to kill a good hobby is to make it your job.
Ok actually production cnc gets extremely repetitive and boring. I fell asleep and got canned. 
Went into automotive machining and eventually became a mechanic. Ive been in automotive for about 10 years now. 
A few years ago I purchased a harbor freight 8x12 (14) lathe at a swap meet to support my other hobby, road racing. I've been wanting a mill ever since. But old iron is limited and expensive here in Colorado.
So i began looking into what started as the harbor freight round column rf45 clone. That eventually snowballed into a drastically reduced tooling budget and more machine. I stumbled upon a charter oak 12z mill. After moderate research I chose the 12z and placed a deposit. I ordered the machine while out of stock back on october 1st. Paul did give me a discount due to the item being out of stock. 
Due to unfortunate shipping problems to no fault of charter oak I'm expecting to get my new mill late November but more likely early December. So you can expect to see some pictures in the coming months. But ill say right now not expecting to make chips right away. This was the absolute top of my budget and there isn't much of anything left for tooling right now. 
After I recover from buying the mill ill be buying tooling to go with it. 
Stay tuned for updates!





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## coolidge (Nov 10, 2015)

Welcome to the forum Chris!


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

Thanks. 

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## Franko (Nov 10, 2015)

Waiting for months due to unfortunate shipping problems is just part of getting machinery, Chris. Welcome to the forum.


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

Franko said:


> Waiting for months due to unfortunate shipping problems is just part of getting machinery, Chris. Welcome to the forum.


Yeah I know. 

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## FOMOGO (Nov 10, 2015)

Welcome to the forum. I'm a few hrs north of you. Mike


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## wrmiller (Nov 10, 2015)

Chris, it was a pleasure meeting you and yakking the afternoon away. 

Looking forward to your impressions and progress reports after receiving your new toy. You mentioned that you built your stand a bit taller than mine. Are you going to shorten it or just try it first and see how it works for you? You're about 6'4" IIRC.


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## maker of things (Nov 10, 2015)

Ah yes, the waiting game.  A confusing mix of excitement and frustration.  Welcome to the club!

Don't forget to put up a pic of the stand you built, we all like pictures.


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Chris, it was a pleasure meeting you and yakking the afternoon away.
> 
> Looking forward to your impressions and progress reports after receiving your new toy. You mentioned that you built your stand a bit taller than mine. Are you going to shorten it or just try it first and see how it works for you? You're about 6'4" IIRC.


Yes definetly I look forward to doing it again sometime! For the stand im going to leave it as is for now. And see how it goes. Worst case I will take the casters off and lower it down via the leveling feet. That should get me around 35 inches from the floor. And yes of course there will be many pictures and progress reports along the way. 

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## wrmiller (Nov 10, 2015)

Sounds like a plan...


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

maker of things said:


> Ah yes, the waiting game.  A confusing mix of excitement and frustration.  Welcome to the club!
> 
> Don't forget to put up a pic of the stand you built, we all like pictures.


Yeah definetly a confusing muxture of excitement frustration anxiety etc etc. 
Here in a couple hours i can put up some pictures it is not done yet though ill work on finishing it this weekend. 

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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

This is a couple pictures low quality phone pics of the stand.


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## wrmiller (Nov 10, 2015)

Looks robust.


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## coolidge (Nov 10, 2015)

That stand height looks like it could be fine, maybe 8 inches higher than my old stand which was too low for me and I'm 5'7". Design wise the 12z weighs a 1/2 ton and those leveling pads are way out to the sides, could be a bit springy but it looks like you used pretty thick tubing. My Kubota tractor front end loader lifted my G4003G lathe up onto its stand without any problem, but it couldn't budge the 12z more than 3 inches off the pallet its that heavy.


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Looks robust.


Thanks. The table of the stand is built from 2"x3" 11 gauge rectangle tubing. The legs and lower frame are 2" 11 gauge square tubing. Caster plates are made from 1/4" plate and the mounts for the leveling feet are made from 4" long sections of 2" square tubing ( scrap from the legs) it was cut at an angle length wise and 1/4 plate was welded to the bottom. 
Initially I was going to copy charter oaks design for the leveling feet. But decided to take a different approach. 
Charter oaks design places all of the load on the welded nut inside the down tubes something that is not serviceable. This design I came up with places the load on the leveling foot and lower nut. All serviceable parts. 

Btw bill, 
11/10/15 happy birthday. 

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## wrmiller (Nov 10, 2015)

Yea, the 'spec sheet brigade' here will tell you the mill weighs less than 800 lbs., but they've not even touched one. Shipping weight on mine with the stand strapped to the top was around 1200 lbs. And I could press the stand over my head no problem, even for an Old Guy. 

You've seen my mill. It ain't no slouch.


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

For your veiwing pleasure and just a tad bit of gloat this is my office. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




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## wrmiller (Nov 10, 2015)

Yea, yea... First you have to tell me about this, and then you post pics? Thanks dude.


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

wrmiller said:


> Yea, yea... First you have to tell me about this, and then you post pics? Thanks dude.


Hahaha I disagree. Im broke

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## wrmiller (Nov 10, 2015)

BTW, didn't tell you I twisted wrenches for a few years. All the ASE certs, and Master level on MB and LR. Didn't bother with the Porsche certs as I hated working on those little things with these big paws...


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

No you didn't mention it. And actually I don't have any ase certs I always worked in dealers before this job so I got factory certs instead. Now I work in fleet maintenance for a private company so it's not required.  

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## wrmiller (Nov 10, 2015)

I was told it couldn't be done, so I took all of the tests for the basic ASE certs at one time. Passed them all. 

Last dealer I worked at carried Mercedes, Land Rover, and Porsche. My stainless tool boxes and work benches were built into the wall. Compressed air, oil, and water hoses came down from the ceiling between my two lifts. Brick floors that we had to scrub every week. The owner had a lot of money in that dealership. 

But twisting wrenches is a young mans game.


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

Yeah that's bs, at least it is these days. Ase anymore is for independent repair shops so customers will feel comfortable there all the manufacturers have their own training programs some will even send you to fancy schools like wyo tech etc for free. Then have you sign a contract stating they basically own you for 5 yrs.

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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

This is a couple pictures of some other equipment in my home shop. Jd2 model 32 hydro tubing bender
	

		
			
		

		
	








The base of the stand is also custom built, it is 1" square tube welded with casters and 1/2" bolts coming up to level the upper portion of the stand it is hydraulic so all bending forces are contained in the frame of the bender. This lets me have it mobile so i can pull it out in the driveway bend a tube, then put it away in the corner instead of bolting to the floor in a fixed location.


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## wrmiller (Nov 10, 2015)

Where were you when I needed a roll cage for my RX-7?


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

How long ago was that the 90s right?

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## wrmiller (Nov 10, 2015)

Mid to late '90s is when I raced Solo-I.


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

Yeah I believe I was in elementary or middle school then. Back in the days of flux core mig welders electrical conduit and goped motorized go karts. 
Too many ideas too stupid to know better. As a kid I put a 5hp briggs on a big wheel scooter from wal mart. The sprocket mount was an old skill saw blade welded to a driveshaft. Yeah I shoulda died a few times.. 


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## wrmiller (Nov 10, 2015)

Yea OK, so I'm old. 

I told you about the go-cart with the Honda 450 twin and no brakes. Sometimes I wonder how I managed to still be here...


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

Haha yeah I plan to build something similar but with brakes. Have to buy a garage and chassis table first

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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

Yeah it's amazing some of the **** we built and didn't kill ourselves. 
I plan on building something similar but with brakes.. Need a chassis table first though been looking at this 
https://www.jd2.com/p-94-dr-jig.aspx


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## wrmiller (Nov 10, 2015)

Hmmm...that's not a bad price for what you get.


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 10, 2015)

No its really not the capability of a functional machine shop plus a functional chassis fabrication and engine building in one place. The possibilities are really endless to what can be accomplished. 

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## Franko (Nov 11, 2015)

Beautiful stand and envious office you have there, Chris.


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 11, 2015)

Franko said:


> Beautiful stand and envious office you have there, Chris.


Thanks! I actually got heck of a deal on both. A friend of mine is a welding apprentice, the shop he works for does large structural stuff. Most often 40-60' stuff. Their scrap pile is full of 10 -12' long sticks. He was able to get all of the tube and plate for free so the stand only cost about 100 dollars for casters levelers and paint in total.  
The office on the other hand is actually a showoff box that matco built for trade shows in 2014.  Im told they only made 10 of them in the color combo I have. Anyway the msrp is 23k on that box. I paid 9k plus got 7k on trade in for my old tool box. So it only cost 2 grand for the toolbox and she is beautifull!

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## tmarks11 (Nov 11, 2015)

I need a friend like that...


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 15, 2015)

Got a little work done today. However not as much as I wanted to. First I layed  out and drilled the holes for the mill to bolt to the stand. The holes were drilled to 5/8ths this will allow a small amount of misalignment. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




I also remembered somewhere i read filling the tubes with sand will help with vibration resistance. So i bought some play sand from the local hardware store.  I figure even if it doesn't do much for vibration. It will add some ballast and weight to the stand. 
	

		
			
		

		
	



After they were filled and tamped, I capped the ends and ground the welds smooth. 
After I finished that I grabbed a da sander and started cleaning the scale and prepping for paint unfortunately it's beginning to get cold outside to cold for paint so I just got it prepped with scotch brite, and wax & grease remover. Here are a few other pictures. 
	

		
			
		

		
	








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## maker of things (Nov 16, 2015)

Are you doing a chip pan?  I have one drawn if you need it.


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 16, 2015)

maker of things said:


> Are you doing a chip pan?  I have one drawn if you need it.


I am making a chip tray actually. Its a simple 16 gauge 48x36 sheet bent at 45 deg 2" in on all edges and mitered altogether at the corners, with a large rectangle hole in the center and the whole thing is offset 1" towards the rear for handwheel clearance.  No pictures yet because my dad is doing that project. And actually hasn't started yet. 

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## wrmiller (Nov 16, 2015)

After I received and set up my mill, I realized that I couldn't get to the Y-axis nut to adjust backlash. So I hacked a hole in the bottom of the chip tray, only to later realize that I can come in from the back of the column with a long 3/8" extension to do the same thing. 

Haven't decided on whether or not to order a new tray...


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 16, 2015)

I wouldn't bother nobody will see it and it's easier to get from underneath if you don't want to move and re level everything to get behind the column. Especially for your stand with the top nut on your levelers being load bearing and non serviceable.  At least if the back of the machine is up against the wall. 

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## Chris Bettis (Nov 29, 2015)

Well black friday deals came through. Bought an interstate 13pc r8 collet set with a wooden collet holder, a clamping kit, some endmills, and vactra 4 way oil, also the girlfriend bought me a 6" glacern vise for 260 on a black friday sale. So hopefully this next couple weeks will bring lots of new toys. 

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## coolidge (Nov 29, 2015)

Ditch the wooden holder, wood and metal is a recipe for rust. I had forgot that when I bought a set of corner rounding bits that came with a wood block holder, it was stored inside a stainless tool cabinet, next time I needed one they were rusted from sitting in the wood block.


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## wrmiller (Nov 29, 2015)

While we (those of us at altitude here in CO) don't suffer from the monsoonal flows of the great Northwest (I've not seen a spec of rust in almost three years, and this with no special preventative measures), I would keep an eye on anything in a wooden case for a while, just to make sure the two aren't doing anything kinky...


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## Chris Bettis (Nov 29, 2015)

With most wood regardless what sealer or stain is in place it will still absorb and sweat moisture. But that is dependent on the climate and humidity as well, however you can control this. Meaning control what the wood takes in. Clean 15w40 and 20w50 motor oil makes a great thick light colored stain that lets the wood absorb oil instead of water. But also gives it an anti corrosion property, and makes it super easy to wipe off grimy black fingerprints. 
I have had all of my lathe tooling and measuring instruments. In an old felt lined wooden machinists cabinet that once belonged to my grandfather for a few years now with no rust problems and no oil stain treatments. 

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## Chris Bettis (Dec 3, 2015)

Ok so my machine vise, collet set, clamping kit, etc came in today. This post will focus more on the vise than anything else because we have all seen clamping kits, and collets, nothing picture worthy there. The vise I convinced  my girlfriend whom has moved herself into the "keeper" category is a glacern 6" standard cnc milling vise basically a kurt d688 copy. However I must say it is a thing of beauty and almost gave ups a hernia delivering it. First off it came in a giant box packaged very nicely in high density foam and a thick cardboard box. Opened that all up to find another box. Inside had to work a bit to get it out. This thing is every bit of the advertised 80 lbs. It came with an inspection report. Nice durable heavy cardstock for the parts list 2 sets of vise keys 11/16, and 5/8ths, for bridgeport or vmc tables, a chip cover, and a handle. The vise was wrapped in heavy plastic with a generous amount of heavy oil. Coating all surfaces, makes cleanup a bit easier than caked on dried up cosmoline. First impressions are very glad i did not settle for a grizzly, or some other cheaper vise. The lead screw has very positive yet super smooth feel from full open to close. And looks to be very high quality.
And the best part is it only cost 260 on black Friday with a $15.00 off coupon and sale price of 275.00 but remember this was a Xmas present so for me it was technically free (even though ill pay for it in some way eventually). 
So on to the pictures!
	

		
			
		

		
	







Im definetly happy with this purchase so far. However Bill, i think you may have been right about the 5" vise being perfect for a 12z table. But beggars cant be choosers and I'm not complaining one bit! I think this monster will work perfectly for my needs. 
The mill should arrive at charter oaks today or tomorrow I'm hopeful it will ship next week. 

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## wrmiller (Dec 3, 2015)

I will say that the GMT vise is a good looking piece. And I've heard nothing but good things about it.

My comment about the 5" being a better size is just my opinion. And the only reason I say that is because the shorter saddle on these small mills doesn't separate the vise and Y-axis hand wheel as well as that found on a full-sized knee mill, so the longer vises can interfere for someone with my paws. Others here use theirs just fine. 

There is one 6" vise I've had my eye on though: the Kurt 3600. At 13" OAL is isn't much bigger than my 5" Kurt. Maybe someday when my current vise wears out...


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 3, 2015)

This gmt is 17" oal that is the only thing im worried about is interference with the y handwheel. That and making my "10x40" table look small...   

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## maker of things (Dec 4, 2015)

I have the shars cnc version of basically that/kurt vise.  I did get a speed handle to avoid most of the y handle interference.  I think any vise with it's stock handle will hit the y handle if you swing it.  I think the 6" look appropriate.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 4, 2015)

maker of things said:


> I have the shars cnc version of basically that/kurt vise.  I did get a speed handle to avoid most of the y handle interference.  I think any vise with it's stock handle will hit the y handle if you swing it.  I think the 6" look appropriate.
> 
> View attachment 115915
> 
> ...


I'll get one eventually. I really like the esthetics it they provide. But I need  to get the mill in cleaned, tuned, trammed, and operational before I start buying things I don't particularly need just yet. Aside from that. The vise looks pretty decent on that table. 

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## Chris Bettis (Dec 4, 2015)

Got a little more done tonight. Finally had a small window of warmer temperatures to get some paint on the stand started to get cold so I didn't finish it tonight. But I did get it mostly primed. Its a few layers of 2 different etching primers, then some primer sealer.  
	

		
			
		

		
	



I turned it upside down sprayed the legs and bottom side first since nobody will see the bottom its ok if it gets a scratch or two it isn't the end of the world. I'll report back after it is finished.  

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## wrmiller (Dec 4, 2015)

Nice. Yea you guys have been getting a bunch more snow than us up here NW of Denver. Better you than me...


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 4, 2015)

I dont mind snow. Its freezing wind that pisses me off.. 

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## Chris Bettis (Dec 6, 2015)

Got a few more thinks knocked out today, the stand had paint on it! 
	

		
			
		

		
	







I also started on my chip tray. That was a little interesting because I do not have a brake. So my dad and I improvised. We started with a 36" x 48" 14ga sheet of hot roll. Traced out 2" off each side then formed a cardboard template and cut a v into the corners. Then the tricky part, bending. We lined up the edges to be bent with the edge of the welding table, used a 1x1 sqaure tube and clamped it all to the table. Started out with a 2x4 and a hammer. That wasn't working so we tried a 2x2 square scrap from the legs of the stand. Still no luck, we ended up using a special welding clamp to bend the steel clamping about 3" at a time. After a few hours of bending and  beating into submission and black magic we came up with this. 
	

		
			
		

		
	







That's all for tonight I'm tired today was a long day. I'll get the chip tray drilled, fitted, and painted next weekend. Hopefully just in time for a mill to sit on it.


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## wrmiller (Dec 6, 2015)

Nice!


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 6, 2015)

You probably notice in some of the pictures of painting the stand we had a propane heater. We masked off our parts washer, and toolbox basically turned the garage into a paint booth and cranked the heater up we sprayed at about 90deg then turned that thing up full blast and baked it at about 120 for a couple hrs. Freezing cold air has never felt so good after sweating to death in the garage. 

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## maker of things (Dec 6, 2015)

So you are a part time blacksmith now too? LOL.  I bent my chip pan in a press brake but I didn't have the right length die so the last 3 inches I used a crescent wrench to tune up.  I didn't worry too much about getting the edge pretty, I figure it's going to take a few knocks anyhow.  Hear any update on timing yet?


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 6, 2015)

maker of things said:


> So you are a part time blacksmith now too? LOL.  I bent my chip pan in a press brake but I didn't have the right length die so the last 3 inches I used a crescent wrench to tune up.  I didn't worry too much about getting the edge pretty, I figure it's going to take a few knocks anyhow.  Hear any update on timing yet?


I wouldn't say I'm a blacksmith by any means, and my dad does auto body so he is used to hammering and shaping steel. He bent most of the chip tray, Then I welded it and cleaned the edges. However I do have a blacksmithing project coming up... As far as updates the mill came to port on nov 23 but was held due to thanksgiving. I spoke with Paul on the 2nd, he said the container would be there in the next day or two and would update me when its ready for shipping. I'm hoping for it to ship early this coming week but I'm not holding my breath. 

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## maker of things (Dec 6, 2015)

So basically you can expect a snow storm the week your mill is supposed to arrive?  Every heavy piece of equipment I ever get it rains that day.


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## wrmiller (Dec 6, 2015)

Hey Chris,

Don't hold your breath. Trust me, it doesn't help. It will get there soon, and once there all of the waiting and frustration fades quickly from memory.

We will both be working on our mills over the coming holidays.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 6, 2015)

maker of things said:


> So basically you can expect a snow storm the week your mill is supposed to arrive?  Every heavy piece of equipment I ever get it rains that day.


Yeah you can pretty much always expect mother nature to screw up everything here in Colorado. However I've spent 28 years spiting her. So even if there is 2' of snow on the ground it won't stop me from getting the mill home, un crated, and in place.

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## Chris Bettis (Dec 6, 2015)

Yep sure will. However I took on another project with the deadline of xmas. Ill be making a present for my gf that is going to take up alot of my spare time. Hopefully I'll be able to make enough time for both the mill, and the new project.. I just wish I could hit the lotto and quit my job. Id never leave my garage.. 

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## Chris Bettis (Dec 6, 2015)

wrmiller said:


> Hey Chris,
> 
> Don't hold your breath. Trust me, it doesn't help. It will get there soon, and once there all of the waiting and frustration fades quickly from memory.
> 
> We will both be working on our mills over the coming holidays.





Chris Bettis said:


> Yep sure will. However I took on another project with the deadline of xmas. Ill be making a present for my gf that is going to take up alot of my spare time. Hopefully I'll be able to make enough time for both the mill, and the new project.. I just wish I could hit the lotto and quit my job. Id never leave my garage..
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk




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## wrmiller (Dec 6, 2015)

Chris Bettis said:


> I just wish I could hit the lotto and quit my job. Id never leave my garage..
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk



Get in line dude...


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 7, 2015)

This is the clamp we used to bend the chip tray http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-3855-8-Inch-Sheet-Metal/dp/B000NQ1618

It was a 3" version not an 8" but you get the idea

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## Chris Bettis (Dec 8, 2015)

Well I got  confirmation from Paul today. My mill should be shipping Wednesday or Thursday this week. He also sent me a couple of teasers for those interested in seeing the new integrated quill dro
	

		
			
		

		
	




	

		
			
		

		
	
 not great pictures but there will be more, many more! Hopefully it will be here mid next week. 

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## Franko (Dec 9, 2015)

I tweeked your photos a bit. Hope you don't mind, Chris.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 9, 2015)

They weren't mine that was Paul's cell phone, I don't mind.

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## maker of things (Dec 9, 2015)

Looks like they added a 3600 rpm motor option too, interesting.  What motor will yours have?


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 9, 2015)

maker of things said:


> Looks like they added a 3600 rpm motor option too, interesting.  What motor will yours have?


Mine will just have the 220v single phase 60hz motor. I would like to upgrade that but it wont be for a year or two. 

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## maker of things (Dec 9, 2015)

I took the chart to show an optional 3600(3450) rpm single phase 220 motor.  It shows speeds for each gear and if it was belt driven I assumed there would be no gears.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 9, 2015)

It could be speeds for the 3 phase vfd motor with gearbox, Belt drive setups lose the whole faceplate anyway. Ill take a closer look when it gets here

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## wrmiller (Dec 9, 2015)

It's speeds for the 3hp motor and gearbox combo. Mine looked the same. Once you go to the belt drive, you throw those charts away (literally).

Nice addition of the quill scale.

Nice mill there young man. Hard to believe mine looked like that when I first got it. I'm hoping to hear that my conversion kit has shipped this week as well.

It's almost here....


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 9, 2015)

Just got off the phone with the shipping company they said everything will be here next wednesday. Hope you don't mind Bill, I mentioned to Paul I stopped by to look at your machine and plan to get that 3hp vfd and belt drive setup in the near future. He still hasn't hinted or let on any of the (extras) he mentioned he would toss in for making me wait 3 months.. Its like looking at the giant Christmas present  with your name on it, and not being allowed to even shake the box before the day comes... 

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## maker of things (Dec 9, 2015)

<Dana Carvey as Grumpy Old Man voice> When I way a boy, we always waited for three months to get our machines, and we didn't get no fancy extras!  That's the way it was, and we liked it!


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 9, 2015)

maker of things said:


> <Dana Carvey as Grumpy Old Man voice> When I way a boy, we always waited for three months to get our machines, and we didn't get no fancy extras!  That's the way it was, and we liked it!


Hey I didn't ask for anything, he just mentioned he would toss in a couple freebies for the inconvenience of waiting 3 months for the machine. I'll be plenty happy with just getting the mill. But surprises are always good! And even if he doesn't toss in any extras ill be plenty happy with just getting the mill. Ive had 3 months to conjure up ideas and projects for it. Time to get to work!

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## maker of things (Dec 9, 2015)

I'm just working on my apprenticeship to be a cantankerous old man.

Actually, when I bought mine, I was too impatient to wait the three months.  Paul had one that had a bad spot on one of the ways repaired that he gave me a break on.  Never have found the spot that was repaired.  

I found that the dispos-oil 12 qt container will sit perfectly on the saddle when you run the table all the way forward.  It lines up right under the drain port (assuming that didn't move).  Didn't even need a funnel.


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## wrmiller (Dec 9, 2015)

FYI, I just heard from Paul: The paint is drying on my modified parts, everything else is boxed up, and it will ship tomorrow. 

The 3hp/VFD and belt-drive upgrade is like night and day different. I think you'll like it.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 9, 2015)

wrmiller said:


> FYI, I just heard from Paul: The paint is drying on my modified parts, everything else is boxed up, and it will ship tomorrow.
> 
> The 3hp/VFD and belt-drive upgrade is like night and day different. I think you'll like it.


Nice. Ill have to come back up after you get it installed. See how super smooth it is. 

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## wrmiller (Dec 9, 2015)

You're welcome to drop by anytime.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 9, 2015)

Hey Bill, can you measure how thick the base of the mill is where it bolts to the stand? 

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## wrmiller (Dec 9, 2015)

3 3/4"


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 9, 2015)

wrmiller said:


> 3 3/4"


Thanks! Had to figure out what length bolts I need. Im working wednesday but I plan to pick up put the mill on the stand, and get it in the garage Wednesday night. So I need to be prepared.

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## Chris Bettis (Dec 12, 2015)

Got some more work done today, the holes are drilled in the chip tray, and the access hole underneath the mill is cut. 
For the access hole I used  the plasma cutter then cleaned up with a grinding wheel, carbide burr, then hand filed smooth. After that I hit the whole thing with 120 grit paper and a da sander then cleaned with wax and grease remover. Paint goes on tomorrow, weather today prevented painting. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




The square tube was used as a guide for the carbide burr and grinder. 

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## wrmiller (Dec 12, 2015)

Nice! Wish I'd thought of cutting an access hole in my chip tray before I installed it. Wasn't fun today laying on my back and doing this upside down with a 4 1/2" angle grinder. It ain't pretty, but it's functional.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 13, 2015)

Your thread was the inspiration for doing the chip tray this way. 

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## brav65 (Dec 13, 2015)

Chris Bettis said:


> Yeah you can pretty much always expect mother nature to screw up everything here in Colorado. However I've spent 28 years spiting her. So even if there is 2' of snow on the ground it won't stop me from getting the mill home, un crated, and in place.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk




 So is it strange to dream of hitting the lottery and calling Matt at QM and ordering one of everything?  II have that dream about once a month, and figure I will continue until they throw the first shovel of dirt in.....


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 13, 2015)

Paint is going on now!
	

		
			
		

		
	




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## Chris Bettis (Dec 13, 2015)

The bottom will be a hammered silver finish 
	

		
			
		

		
	




	

		
			
		

		
	
 it does a nice job hiding all the imperfections from hammering the steel into shape the inside will be a hammered black finish to help point out how dirty my chip tray will be. 

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## wrmiller (Dec 13, 2015)

The black looks great of on my tray. Even when full of chips.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 13, 2015)

We just did the outside in silver to break up the black a little. I think it will accent the table and faceplate better also but I didn't  want silver on the inside of the tray because it would hide swarf. 

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## wrmiller (Dec 13, 2015)

You know, this is kinda cool. You, Maker of Things, and I pretty much have this forum to ourselves.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 13, 2015)

wrmiller said:


> You know, this is kinda cool. You, Maker of Things, and I pretty much have this forum to ourselves.


For the most part yeah. The dark corner of hobby machinist nobody goes to!

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## wrmiller (Dec 13, 2015)

Oh....and we need pics of the delivery next Wednesday!


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## wrmiller (Dec 13, 2015)

Chris Bettis said:


> For the most part yeah. The dark corner of hobby machinist nobody goes to!
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk



Guess this means we can pretty much talk about whatever comes up!


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 13, 2015)

Have I not been generous enough with pictures? I can assure you, you will get sick of all the pictures to come. 

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## wrmiller (Dec 13, 2015)

Sick of machine por...err...pictures? Not likely.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 13, 2015)

Last coat of paint just went on the top. You cant tell with the lights but the inside (top) is black. 2 cans of hammered finish black, started drying grey then one can of vht roll bar and chassis black over the hammered paint to get the color right. 
	

		
			
		

		
	





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## wrmiller (Dec 13, 2015)

Nice.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 13, 2015)

Finished, and ready for a mill. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




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## Chris Bettis (Dec 14, 2015)

brav65 said:


> So is it strange to dream of hitting the lottery and calling Matt at QM and ordering one of everything?  II have that dream about once a month, and figure I will continue until they throw the first shovel of dirt in.....


Idk if pm would be my first call probably Bridgeport for nostalgia reasons. Then haas for something like a vf5. Then maybe a pm 1340gt and some sort of large engine lathe. Then a 5 axis machine, and then a shop to put it all in and then more lottery tickets cause id be close to broke. 

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## maker of things (Dec 14, 2015)

Not going to use the space underneath for anything?  I remember Bill having someone build him drawers, and I copied that idea.


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## wrmiller (Dec 14, 2015)

Quite the setup you have going there, Jon. Very nice. The lights are a nice feature. The cabinet in the back is for electronics?

The drawers never materialized, although he says he has them done and sitting on a workbench at his house. He keeps forgetting?!? I'd actually forgotten about them to be honest. Also, never having sealed the bolt holes when I put this thing on it's stand now has oil leaking down the back bolts and dripping on the stand and floor. I get a little enthusiastic with the oiler and typically have oil sitting in the channels on the side of the base. I'd rather have the mill dripping oil than running too dry.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 14, 2015)

Eventually ill put something in there. Im just not sure what. Ive been looking at doing shelves, etc Ill figure that out later. 

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## Chris Bettis (Dec 14, 2015)

Out of curiosity what are the bolts in the side of the base for?

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## maker of things (Dec 14, 2015)

lifting.  drop the head down, run the y all the way back, straps to the 4 bolts (there are 2 at the back also) and pickup above the head, easy peasy.


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## maker of things (Dec 14, 2015)

wrmiller said:


> The cabinet in the back is for electronics?


Indeed.


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## maker of things (Dec 14, 2015)

This is how I lifted my machine a couple times YMMV.  No warranty expressed or implied.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 14, 2015)

Are those ratchet straps?

In the words of Jeff Foxworthy
You might be a redneck if.......

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## maker of things (Dec 14, 2015)

The yellow one is a proper sling rated for 3500#  I basically just used two ratchet straps to level the thing out, not really carrying much weight.  As stated YMMV.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 14, 2015)

maker of things said:


> The yellow one is a proper sling rated for 3500#  I basically just used two ratchet straps to level the thing out, not really carrying much weight.  As stated YMMV.


That makes a little more sense!

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## Franko (Dec 14, 2015)

I use the same set-up when lifting my equipment, with a heavy duty lifting sling and heavy duty ratchet tie to balance it.
I also secure the main lifting sling to the mill column to prevent any chance of it rotating. When lifting the lathe, I secured the lifting sling to the headstock to keep it from slipping down the ways.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 15, 2015)

maker of things said:


> So basically you can expect a snow storm the week your mill is supposed to arrive?  Every heavy piece of equipment I ever get it rains that day.


Thanks for that..  So today we got about 10" and counting of snow, and now traking states shipping delay. Call origin terminal for details. I may lose my mind before the end of the week. 

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## maker of things (Dec 15, 2015)

Sorry, I was just trying to prepare you for the inevitable.  I tend to add a week in my mind to the "promised" date to manage my expectations.  Maybe thinking of it as building character will help?  Don't worry, most of us have been where you are right now and we turned out ok.  I mean, apart from the fact that we keep posting words and pictures to complete strangers in a virtual environment that may border on talking to voices in our heads.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 15, 2015)

maker of things said:


> Sorry, I was just trying to prepare you for the inevitable.  I tend to add a week in my mind to the "promised" date to manage my expectations.  Maybe thinking of it as building character will help?  Don't worry, most of us have been where you are right now and we turned out ok.  I mean, apart from the fact that we keep posting words and pictures to complete strangers in a virtual environment that may border on talking to voices in our heads.


Bahahaha perfect.  New delivery update, now expecting Thursday for pickup. Sorry to my virtual friends no more pictures until Thursday.


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## wrmiller (Dec 15, 2015)

The wind came around my house just whipping the snow all over the place. About a foot overall of snow up here, but I have three foot drifts in my driveway and around the Jeep. 

Never going to get used to living up here...


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 15, 2015)

I've lived here my whole life. Snow doesn't bother me. Its the rush of deadbeat potheads driving my rent to double that from 5 yrs ago. I will say my trip to Arizona for thanksgiving has made me ponder my living arrangements. 
Also turns out the Semi broke down and delays weren't weather related, or so they say. Broke down probably means ditch on the side of the road.. 

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## wrmiller (Dec 15, 2015)

When we finally get back to AZ you are welcome to come down and visit.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 15, 2015)

If my girlfriend had it her way, we'd beat ya to it. 

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## maker of things (Dec 15, 2015)

Hey, go ahead and send me some of that snow.  It was 60 degrees and humid yesterday, my allergies are killing me.


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## wrmiller (Dec 15, 2015)

I know. Crazy warm weather east of the Miss, and record rain and snow out west. They are saying it's the El Nino. Nuts...


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## maker of things (Dec 15, 2015)

That's Spanish for "The Nino"


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 16, 2015)

Tracking confirms the mill has arrived to the terminal today. Im awaiting a call from the shipping company to schedule pick up hopefully tomorrow weather permitting. 

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## wrmiller (Dec 16, 2015)

I heard Denver is getting snow tonight/tomorrow?

UPS says my screws are on the truck for delivery today.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 16, 2015)

Accuweather ( more reliable than local news.. Mostly) is showing dry throughout the night with light flurries mid morning but all bets are off considering the news also said we would get 1-2 inches overnight, and total 6" by the end of Tuesday.  I had at least 10" Tuesday morning and about 14" by the end of the day. 

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## maker of things (Dec 16, 2015)

One more big sleep!


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 16, 2015)

maker of things said:


> One more big sleep!


Lets hope so. Probably be up all night with anxiety. I'm sure you know the feeling

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## Chris Bettis (Dec 16, 2015)

Trailer is hooked up. Less than 24hrs

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## wrmiller (Dec 16, 2015)

I don't know about you, but were I in your shoes, I might need a stiff single-malt to take the edge off so I could sleep. Maybe my stash of a 17 year Balvenie which is the best I can afford (or the best I'm willing to pay for).


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 16, 2015)

I tend to lean more to rum. This is my current favorite. I cant afford good whiskey. 

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## wrmiller (Dec 16, 2015)

I used to love rum. Until I drank almost a whole fifth of 191 on my 21st birthday. Sick for days. Can't get within 5 feet of it now.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 16, 2015)

Im a pirate.. Actually its the only thing my younger days didn't ruin.. That and cider. Everything else gives me a headache. 

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## Chris Bettis (Dec 17, 2015)

Its here... 

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## maker of things (Dec 17, 2015)

Awesome!  Not try to not kill yourself getting it on your stand.  Copious amounts of naughty words is normal for this process.


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## wrmiller (Dec 17, 2015)




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## Chris Bettis (Dec 17, 2015)

Just got it un crated. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




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## wrmiller (Dec 17, 2015)

Nice. Kinda forgot what mine looked like stock.


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## Franko (Dec 17, 2015)

Whoo Hoo!


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 17, 2015)

Tada!
	

		
			
		

		
	




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## wrmiller (Dec 17, 2015)

You certainly had less drama than I did getting it up on it's stand. Good for you.

And it looks to be in pretty good shape. No shipping damage?


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 17, 2015)

It looks ok, a few bondo cracks and chips some undesireable overspray. Nothing to bad looks mechanically sound.  It was a bit nerve racking, but relatively drama free. I used a hybrid method to rig it all 
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 I ran the sling around the head by the column. Then ran a second strap around the column to the motor. To prevent any shifting. I then ran tie downs from the boom to the front lifting bolts. I used a 6400 lb 2" x 6' sling. The lift went fairly simple. I used ratchet straps as come alongs to move the pallet, to the edge of the trailer. 
	

		
			
		

		
	





	

		
			
		

		
	
 then I lifted it off the trailer and placed it on wooden blocks. Moved the truck and wheeled it in the garage. To place it on the stand I pulled the casters. Lifted it with the levelers just enough to clear the legs under the outriggers. Had 2 people holding the chip under the mill slid it all on put bolts through holes lined it up, set it down put the nuts on and done. It all took about 4 hrs the first 3 were solo. Now for cleaning, checking, and setup. Its 11 degrees here I've had enough cold this weekend should be nicer. Frozen cosmoline sucks. 

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## maker of things (Dec 18, 2015)

Nice!  No drama is a nice way to go.


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## wrmiller (Dec 18, 2015)

It was 6 degrees when I walked outside this morning. This AZ lizard is freezing to death. 

A friend was supposed to come over to help with the lift onto the stand, but he had to go do something else (one reason I don't like relying on people...) so I quietly went out to the garage and did it myself. Wife kinda freaked out when she figured out what I was doing but got over it. Everything is still attached and functional.

I cracked more paint and bondo doing modifications to the mill than it had when I got it. That's nothing. 

I too am waiting for the weekend to do anything serious. I have to stop and pick up a 1 3/4" hole saw tonight to enlarge the Y-axis hole in the front of the base before I can continue anyway. Then I'm off for two weeks...


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 18, 2015)

I think tonight I'll wire it up and let the motor run for a few minutes. Im gonna wait on cleaning more cosmoline until Saturday when I can get some daylight to help with temperatures. So far I've blown through 80 bucks worth of propane just heating the garage enough to paint the stand.  

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## wrmiller (Dec 18, 2015)

I would recommend a real low spindle speed to start. That oil in the head is likely quite thick in these temperatures. Just a suggestion though.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 18, 2015)

Oh Cmon Bill. How do we break in race engines?
 
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## Chris Bettis (Dec 20, 2015)

Ok so I got a few more things accomplished. The whole garage is moved around now and the mill has been placed in it's new home. I've got it all mostly cleaned off. With wax and grease remover and wd40. There was a brief break from working because my nephew's wanted to see the mill run. They like building lego robots and my dad and I mentioned the robots we had built for my brothers high school robotics program. So i showed them how it worked and made a couple light cuts in a piece of 1/4" flat strap they were all amazed because they had never seen anything like it before. Of course it didn't take much convincing me to show them. I was pretty impressed at how interested they were in it. I also fired up my lathe and showed them how it works to. After they went home I went back out cleaned the chips up and pulled all the gibs and put them in my parts washer. I was impressed they were all scraped and flaked along the friction surfaces (is this normal on these machines)?? 
Anyway here is my next question. I did find a decent amount of casting sand and nastiness behind the gibs. This obviously needs to be cleaned out. However I'm having a tough time mentally pulling the bearing blocks off of my brand new machine. Why on earth do they bondo around the joints from the factory. My question is this what aerosol solvents would work well to flood and clean inside there without dissolving the paint? I usually go the brake clean route but it will take paint with it.
I know the best solution would be disassembling everything and thoroughly cleaning, and deburing all of it.  Which may still happen but id like to try flooding with a high pressure aerosol first then inspecting with a borescope and 50 cal cotton barrel swabs coated in light grease to catch any left overs then cleaning out the grease oiling and re assembly. Any recommendations on paint safe solvents? 
	

		
			
		

		
	




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## coolidge (Dec 20, 2015)

Chris Bettis said:


> Im a pirate.. Actually its the only thing my younger days didn't ruin.. That and cider. Everything else gives me a headache.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk



No I'm a pirate and I dig up shipwreck treasure too, here are 2 pieces of 8 from the 1700's encased in iron and shells.


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## maker of things (Dec 20, 2015)

If you care about the stuff back there now, will you really ever trust the results of a flush? If you can wait a couple days.  I'm tearing mine apart over the next 2 days for ballscrew conversion.  I can take pics and at least tell you what not to do.  Bill had his all apart for the one shot oiler conversion so he may already have advice in the matter.

That aside you are the first person I have come across who reported actually finding sand in a chinese machine.  You get a gold star.


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## wrmiller (Dec 20, 2015)

When I first got my mill, I basically pulled the gibbs (yes, they were scraped and flaked. Flat too.), deburred, and ran a stone over them and oiled the crap out of everything after flushing the ways out with a half dozen aerosol cans of WD-40. Adjusted the gibbs and ran it for a few days like that doing some test cuts and making a couple of small parts I needed to finish a project. The mill did OK, but I knew in my heart that I really needed to get into this thing and see what's what. It IS a Chinese machine after all, so of course fit and finish are suspect. I accept this as a matter of course, as do some other folks, but some expect a perfect machine right out of the box at this price point. YMMV...

Like I said on the phone yesterday, for all intents and purposes I personally looked at the purchase of the 12Z as getting a set of base, saddle, column, and head castings pre-machined for a couple thousand dollars (try asking a US company to do that for the same money). Everything else is suspect and will get fixed, replaced, and/or modified until the machine meets MY standards. But I am a bit odd compared to most folks, or so my wife keeps telling me.

That and my oiler kit showed up from Paul.

So, I tore it apart. Gentle taps with a dead-blow to loosen the bearing blocks (yes, they are bondo'd and painted over). Pulled the table, saddle, screws, and bearing blocks. Sharpened a thick-bladed putty knife and attacked the paint and bondo anywhere near a mounting or sliding surface on the table, saddle, base, and bearing blocks (I may re-paint someday. Maybe). Cleaned and deburred everything. Filed all of the sharp edges off of the table and stoned the top and all the sliding surfaces. Same process for the base, saddle, and bearing blocks.

NOTE: The oiler holes on the table, saddle, and bearing blocks have no reliefs cut in them on the inside to promote oil flow. They are just a straight through hole. Some I could get oil into, some I couldn't unless I loosened up the machine. If I wasn't planning on doing the one-shot oiling system, I would have taken my Foredom and a 1/8" carbide bur and hand cut some channels off the inside of those oiler holes to get the oil better distributed to where it needs to go. Same on the bearing blocks. This iron is not that hard, and it NEEDS oil to prevent premature wear. Just a FYI.

For the oiling system I hand drilled the oiling holes in the saddle, but then did the oiling grooves in the sliding surfaces with my PM25. They could be done by hand, but they wouldn't have been as straight.  

Reassembled and adjusted everything and it has worked well for over a year. Now it's back apart while I do the ball screw upgrade and I took the opportunity to inspect all the sliding surfaces. Everything is looking very good so far. But as you have seen, I oil the crap out of this thing (oil puddled in the troughs on the base and dripping on the floor). When I pull the oiler handle I don't stop until I see oil running everywhere. Then I know it's good to go for the day.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 20, 2015)

I did notice if you do plan to repaint my stand and chip tray match almost perfectly. I used VHT roll bar and chassis black from O'Riley's auto parts 

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## wrmiller (Dec 20, 2015)

Yea, I like that chip tray. If I ever pull the mill off it's stand I may hire you to make me a new one.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 20, 2015)

wrmiller said:


> Yea, I like that chip tray. If I ever pull the mill off it's stand I may hire you to make me a new one.


Honestly yours looks way better. And the hole is already cut now. If you really want to match I have some silver paint left over. 

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## wrmiller (Dec 20, 2015)

Oh, I forgot. It was a good thing I decided to tear the mill down because I discovered the Y-axis nut was slightly loose and already starting to tilt and wear funny. 

So I would have been tearing the mill down anyway.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 20, 2015)

Ok I started the flush with wd40 copious amounts of black casting sand came out no way i can realistically flush clean table and saddle are coming off. Guess she will be getting an extremely in depth tune up before going into service. 

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## Chris Bettis (Dec 20, 2015)

Paint is broken
	

		
			
		

		
	




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## Chris Bettis (Dec 20, 2015)

Lost of cleaning and de burring done. Thank god for a parts washer! Saddle is back on! Y gib is in lead screw is alligned and tight buttery smooth now. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




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## wrmiller (Dec 20, 2015)

See? Not so bad.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 20, 2015)

Table cleaned and going on. 
	

		
			
		

		
	





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## wrmiller (Dec 20, 2015)

Looking real good. Yea, a parts washer is on my 'required' list of things to get next year. Just received my little bench top blasting cabinet last week. Slowly getting there...


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 20, 2015)

All back together. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




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## wrmiller (Dec 20, 2015)

Any plans to mod your new mill with a DRO or anything? Or are you going to enjoy it as is for a while?


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 20, 2015)

Dro as soon as i can afford it. Then id like a 3phase motor and belt drive. 

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## Chris Bettis (Dec 21, 2015)

Also power feeds for x. 

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## Chris Bettis (Dec 21, 2015)

wrmiller said:


> Looking real good. Yea, a parts washer is on my 'required' list of things to get next year. Just received my little bench top blasting cabinet last week. Slowly getting there...


Keep that cabinet on the opposite side of the garage. Typically with mine anything within 6 feet of it gets sandy.  

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## wrmiller (Dec 21, 2015)

Chris Bettis said:


> Keep that cabinet on the opposite side of the garage. Typically with mine anything within 6 feet of it gets sandy.
> Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk



Which DRO are you looking at, if you don't mind my asking?

Duly noted regarding the cabinet, thanks. I will be using glass beads in mine, more for putting a finish/texture on small parts than anything, but I suspect those will blow around and get into everything as well. A good mask will be a must. It is a cheap cabinet, from Grizzly. I will attempt to seal it a bit better if I can. Any suggestions?

You will definitely be wanting the X-axis power feed once you start cranking that table back and forth any appreciable distance. For an Old Guy like me it was a necessity. As I've said before, the 3hp/VFD upgrade, coupled with the belt drive upgrade REALLY changes this mill. Day and night IMO. Once you dump the significant parasitic losses of a bunch of gears swimming in a oil bath you can really spool that spindle up to some decent RPMs. Spooky quiet too. When the time comes, make sure that Paul sends you the upgraded spindle bearings with the motor/VFD upgrade as that by itself will give you the speeds on the right side of your spindle rpm chart. When you do the belt drive conversion, you get to replace the front plate on the head and throw that spindle rpm chart away.


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 21, 2015)

wrmiller said:


> Which DRO are you looking at, if you don't mind my asking?
> 
> Duly noted regarding the cabinet, thanks. I will be using glass beads in mine, more for putting a finish/texture on small parts than anything, but I suspect those will blow around and get into everything as well. A good mask will be a must. It is a cheap cabinet, from Grizzly. I will attempt to seal it a bit better if I can. Any suggestions?
> 
> You will definitely be wanting the X-axis power feed once you start cranking that table back and forth any appreciable distance. For an Old Guy like me it was a necessity. As I've said before, the 3hp/VFD upgrade, coupled with the belt drive upgrade REALLY changes this mill. Day and night IMO. Once you dump the significant parasitic losses of a bunch of gears swimming in a oil bath you can really spool that spindle up to some decent RPMs. Spooky quiet too. When the time comes, make sure that Paul sends you the upgraded spindle bearings with the motor/VFD upgrade as that by itself will give you the speeds on the right side of your spindle rpm chart. When you do the belt drive conversion, you get to replace the front plate on the head and throw that spindle rpm chart away.


Id like to get a fagor f40I with the fancy display screen. But 2500 dollar dro on a 2500dollar machine is overkill. 

I use ultra fine glass in mine as well. 

And yeah that belt drive is a badass. I think Paul mentioned they replaced the bearings already but ill have to double check on that. 


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## wrmiller (Dec 21, 2015)

If you want a cool touch-screen display, you might want to take a gander at the DroPros EL700. Magnetic scales that you can trim to any length, and you can buy the kit for either the column/head or the quill.

And about $800 bucks cheaper than the Fagor.

As you saw on my DRO, I went on the column/head for my Z-axis but later added a scale on the quill for milling pockets. If I had it to do over I probably would have just ponied up for the 4-axis EL700 and called it done. Even that is 500 bucks cheaper than the Fagor.

Hindsight is always 20/20...


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## Chris Bettis (Dec 21, 2015)

wrmiller said:


> If you want a cool touch-screen display, you might want to take a gander at the DroPros EL700. Magnetic scales that you can trim to any length, and you can buy the kit for either the column/head or the quill.
> 
> And about $800 bucks cheaper than the Fagor.
> 
> ...


Ill have to look into them. Id like something that will be accurate in the tenths. Those fagor .01 micron scales are mighty fancy. But like I said overkill for most all machines. 

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## wrmiller (Dec 21, 2015)

I have .0001 resolution on my lathe cross slide, everything else on all of my other machines is .0002


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## David VanNorman (Dec 22, 2015)

I am looking to buy a new mill . How is CO to do business with ? How do the machines hold up? I'm not a pro just a ham and egger but I want something decent. I also want a machine I can power tap with and not cost an arm and a leg.


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## maker of things (Dec 22, 2015)

I finally got my table and saddle off yesterday.  Didn't find any sand or gunk behind my gibs. I did file some sharp edges, not because it really needed it but out of peer pressure.  They were just on the bottom side.  That bondo sucks for taking the end plates off.  

On my machine the max clearance between the bottom of the table to the flat of the saddle on the rough cast part is 1.85"  The ballnut for the 25mm ballscrews is 1.9"  I will be machining my saddle to accept the x nut and it can't be done on the G0704 which I think is the same window as PM25, so Bill you will either need a friend nearby with another 12z or plan on 20mm screws.



David VanNorman said:


> I can power tap with


As long as you have a tapmatic style tapping head.  Maybe the belt drive version has instant reverse, but any machine I have seen running a single phase motor won't instant reverse.


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## wrmiller (Dec 22, 2015)

I can/have machined the saddle on the PM25, but can't machine the table. But then I don't have 1" screws either. They are about the same size as the screws I took off. I'll mike 'em today when I get out to the garage.

EDIT: Nope, these are smaller screws than the originals. About .785. As I have no experience with ball screws I'm not sure what the ramifications are of that, if any.


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## maker of things (Dec 22, 2015)

wrmiller said:


> I can/have machined the saddle on the PM25, but can't machine the table. But then I don't have 1" screws either. They are about the same size as the screws I took off. I'll mike 'em today when I get out to the garage.
> 
> EDIT: Nope, these are smaller screws than the originals. About .785. As I have no experience with ball screws I'm not sure what the ramifications are of that, if any.


So you are already in process with a ball screw conversion on the 12z?

I was just looking at dros for the grinder I got, what drew you to the magnetic vs glass scales?


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## wrmiller (Dec 22, 2015)

Yup, (see my thread 1 year update). 

I may have mis-spoke. I have glass scales on my mills, magnetic on the lathe. Both from DroPros (actually my LMS mini mill also had a DroPros glass scale kit as well). The glass scales have worked great, and I don't use any flood coolant on the mills so I figured the glass would be good enough and save me a few bucks in the process. For the 1340GT I decided to pony up for the EL400 (?) so I could trim the scales to fit and also just in case I decide to put a coolant system on this thing.


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## tlmartin84 (Apr 21, 2017)

Looks good!

How is the stand holding up?  Any flex or wobble?  Seem pretty sturdy?

I plan to use the same size tubing (I have 24' just lying here).  I think it will be more than sufficient, but I also see a lot of overkill here too............ wanted to make sure.

Thanks


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## Chris Bettis (Sep 7, 2018)

tlmartin84 said:


> Looks good!
> 
> How is the stand holding up? Any flex or wobble? Seem pretty sturdy?
> 
> ...


The stand is holding up well! Fairly certain it is overkill for it's application. Haven't had any issues with vibration either. 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


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