# Updates on the PM Site...



## Ray C (Jul 11, 2013)

All,

If you're a PM fan, you might want to check-out the latest changes to the web site. http://www.machinetoolonline.com/   Prices are the same but, there's some new models and accessories and you can call (or ask me) about any particular configurations such as getting a larger bed on some of the mills etc...

I'm also going to leak some news:   Matt is going to be a Bison distributor as well as a distributor for Hitachi VFD (which is what he uses on his VFD conversion)...

The Bison dealership is exciting...  Those are some really nice chucks!


Ray


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## tripletap3 (Jul 11, 2013)

Ray, I don't see the updates yet. I check out their site regularly and it still coming up as updated 3-20-13. I reaaaaly want one of those PM-932M mills so I keep waiting for more info on them. (and more funds).


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## Ray C (Jul 11, 2013)

I'm pretty sure a batch of those 932s are coming. When I last spoke to Matt, he was surprised at the keen interest in them. I will say this... As much as I dearly like my 45, power table-feed and Z column on the 932 sure are nice options ... (arghhh, grumble...). The PM45 is showing no signs of wearing-out anytime soon. And complicating matters even more, I'm still thinking though, I need to bite the bullet and do some CNC.

What do you think, should I give that a try? Despite years of not wanting anything to do with it, I announced here some time ago that it officially entered my curiosity horizon. Prior to now, all the kits & conversions looked like a total PITA with endless software/driver nitemares. -No thanks, I did that for a living for a couple decades. And there's no way I can shell-out 10+ grand on a Tormach system. With the latest offerings, things seem improved enough that the "pre-canned" systems will work as described.

Also, Matt now has a CNC version of the smaller PM 20 or 25 units. I keep meaning to ask for more information but, I usually end-up asking more technical questions so I can help support the questions I get via private email and messages. I'm thinking a smaller unit like that would be good for me. I could do the rough-out work in the 45 then, fixture-up and finish-off using a big CNC dental drill like the PM 20.


Ray


EDIT:  Added clarification to statement about big dental drill.



tripletap3 said:


> Ray, I don't see the updates yet. I check out their site regularly and it still coming up as updated 3-20-13. I reaaaaly want one of those PM-932M mills so I keep waiting for more info on them. (and more funds).


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## Analias (Jul 11, 2013)

I have a Sieg X3, that has been CNC'd.  I didn't do the conversion on it.  I bought it already converted.  There are some things I would have done differently.

I can see myself out growing the X3's capabilities.  If I do and if I was buying a new machine, manual or CNC'd,  I think I would seriously consider getting a Novakon mill over CNC'n a new manual machine.  A 45 is a nice platform to CNC, and has been done successfully many times. I suspect the cost would be about even or just under that of a Novakon Pro or Torus after I did everything I wanted to it.  The difference in cost may be worth the reduction in pain and suffering of doing my own conversion.


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## Ray C (Jul 11, 2013)

Matt offers a fully CNC version of the PM45 for about 6 grand.  It basically goes head-on with some of the bigger-names out there but, does not have all the fancy benches and shields.   Also, I'm really tight on space and don't have enough repetitive mill work for that kind of an investment.  I'm thinking the smaller unit is a way to get my feet wet and if I grow out of it, so be it.  

How do you see yourself growing-out of yours?  -Looking to learn from your experiences...


Ray






Analias said:


> I have a Sieg X3, that has been CNC'd. I didn't do the conversion on it. I bought it already converted. There are some things I would have done differently.
> 
> I can see myself out growing the X3's capabilities. If I do and if I was buying a new machine, manual or CNC'd, I think I would seriously consider getting a Novakon mill over CNC'n a new manual machine. A 45 is a nice platform to CNC, and has been done successfully many times. I suspect the cost would be about even or just under that of a Novakon Pro or Torus after I did everything I wanted to it. The difference in cost may be worth the reduction in pain and suffering of doing my own conversion.


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## Rbeckett (Jul 11, 2013)

Adding CNC to an existing machine is a scary thought.  Just for the reasons outlined above.  I for one do not have the technical skill to address software issues that seem to constantly arise with the home brewed systems out now.  Since I am so technically inept I have delayed doing any work with anything CNC unless it was a turn key commercial machine.  My torchmate is a prime example of that.  I would have never attempted to assemble and build a machine like that because I would have even less of a clue where to start then I would have trying to solve glitches and other problems when they arose.   Steve and Mac have had excellent results with their RF clones and there success has spurred my interest greatly, so I too am looking at CNC on the possible event horizon.  I am sure it is in the fairly distant future, but it is becoming a viable alternative.  So I am watching things as they evolve and may make the plunge later on....

Bob


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## Analias (Jul 11, 2013)

Ray C said:


> How do you see yourself growing-out of yours?  -Looking to learn from your experiences...
> 
> Ray



Mostly it the size of cut vs. rigidity of Z axis.  The X3 column twists quite a bit.  I have seen several approaches to fixing the problem, one was even bolting the column a basement wall.  Tests show it help quite a bit.  The size of the spindle is another consideration.  It's currently implemented with the stock DC motor, but with a third-party motor controller.  The original builder went through two factory controllers before saying quit and going with a third-party controller.  I'd also like the motor to be a bit bigger than 3/4hp and have higher speed.  The HP issue goes back to the rigidity of the column.  I'll have to experiment and see just how big and fast a cut I can take before I start hitting the limits.

Take this with a grain of salt, I'm brand new to all of this (less than an year).  I know I don't know anything, but that's the fun in it.

The software and computer side is the easy part for me.  I'm not afraid of software or computers.  I've been dealing with that for more than twenty years.  I hate breaking cutters, but I think that's what it will take to learn anything.


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## Bob S (Jul 11, 2013)

Throwing my 2 cents in on the CNC issue. Several years ago I converted a Sherline mill just for the fun of it (this was before Sherline came out with their own conversion kits). The build was fun, learned some new things and got a good introduction to G-codes and Mach3 ( actually was something like Mach 1 shareware and a couple of other drivers but these were the earlier days of home CNC).

i outgrew that system and saved my pennies while I did a lot of research. I knew I didn't want to do another build, I wanted to be able to make parts! I finally focused on the Tormach mills, specifically the 770. I was impressed when I went to various forums and so many people were discussing accuracy issues, lack of customer service, difficulty contacting the vendor, etc. however the Tormach forums were mainly focusing on what they were building. It all sounded almost too good to be true so I called Tormach and made a 9 hour drive to their main headquarters to see the machine and talk with the people there. What I saw convinced me that this was the right path for me. I liked the quality of the equipment, the fact they stood behind the brand and have an active R&D program bringing new products out all the time.

This was my experience which has been very good. I've had the machine 2 years and am extremely pleased with its performance. Let me know if you want to know more but I can vouch for this one.

Bob


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## Ray C (Jul 11, 2013)

Can you give me a rough idea of the size cut you can/cannot do and what types of materials might be involved?  Trying to gauge this situation a bit...

Thanks


Ray




Analias said:


> Mostly it the size of cut vs. rigidity of Z axis.  The X3 column twists quite a bit.  I have seen several approaches to fixing the problem, one was even bolting the column a basement wall.  Tests show it help quite a bit.  The size of the spindle is another consideration.  It's currently implemented with the stock DC motor, but with a third-party motor controller.  The original builder went through two factory controllers before saying quit and going with a third-party controller.  I'd also like the motor to be a bit bigger than 3/4hp and have higher speed.  The HP issue goes back to the rigidity of the column.  I'll have to experiment and see just how big and fast a cut I can take before I start hitting the limits.
> 
> Take this with a grain of salt, I'm brand new to all of this (less than an year).  I know I don't know anything, but that's the fun in it.
> 
> The software and computer side is the easy part for me.  I'm not afraid of software or computers.  I've been dealing with that for more than twenty years.  I hate breaking cutters, but I think that's what it will take to learn anything.


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## rosat2k (Jul 13, 2013)

Ray, 
Do you have any news from Matt about the PM1340 lathes? I was just wondering if they already arrived in the USA but did not want to bother Matt. Thanks
Rod


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## Ray C (Jul 13, 2013)

They are on track as of last week.  I don't remember if he said late July or early Aug.  He's got a lot of them coming in.  I believe the 935s are due almost any day now.  Other stuff too but I don't keep track.  When someone from here wants something (and if they are serious) I call Matt or Nicole and it's put on reserve until you call and work the details; thus, I only see half the transaction and never really know when things are shipped.

One thing to note:  sometimes the cargo ships get delayed by being re-routed from NY harbor to the California area.  That can suck-up a week or slighly more because they have to go by train and truck when that happens.


Ray



rosat2k said:


> Ray,
> Do you have any news from Matt about the PM1340 lathes? I was just wondering if they already arrived in the USA but did not want to bother Matt. Thanks
> Rod


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## rosat2k (Jul 14, 2013)

Ray C said:


> They are on track as of last week.  I don't remember if he said late July or early Aug.  He's got a lot of them coming in.  I believe the 935s are due almost any day now.  Other stuff too but I don't keep track.  When someone from here wants something (and if they are serious) I call Matt or Nicole and it's put on reserve until you call and work the details; thus, I only see half the transaction and never really know when things are shipped.
> 
> One thing to note:  sometimes the cargo ships get delayed by being re-routed from NY harbor to the California area.  That can suck-up a week or slighly more because they have to go by train and truck when that happens.
> 
> ...



OK - thanks Ray.
By the way - I would like to say that when it comes to communication, Matt has been extremely quick to reply to any questions I have. I sent him e-mails with questions about electrical, leveling feet, etc... He usually replies my e-mails withing only a few hours - quite outstanding. 
Rod


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## Ray C (Jul 14, 2013)

He does his best but there are times when he's swamped checking the incoming shipments and getting them on delivery trucks...  I have no idea how he does it all but, I can say for sure, he loves his work.  Whenever I call him, I keep notes of exactly what needs to be asked (usually technical questions that come from this site) and keep it short as possible -even though the temptation to kibitz about machines is overwhelming...

Ray





rosat2k said:


> OK - thanks Ray.
> By the way - I would like to say that when it comes to communication, Matt has been extremely quick to reply to any questions I have. I sent him e-mails with questions about electrical, leveling feet, etc... He usually replies my e-mails withing only a few hours - quite outstanding.
> Rod


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