# Greg's Logan 820 Restoration



## gjmontll

In February 2013, I bought a Logan 820. Serial Number is 24157 (Made in 1944, it would be be interesting to know its history). A good project for my upcoming retirement!
This Logan was to be an upgrade from the Atlas 618 I've had for the past 4 years and that served as my entry into this home machining hobby. The 820 was operational, but clearly in need of some refurbishing.
In April I retired. First, I needed to get the Atlas repaired and sold to make some room in the garage. Had to move the Atlas every time I needed to get to my X2 minimill.

*Preparatory Logan work*: Get AXA toolholders for the Logan, the parts diagram/list, a face plate, threading dial, and other assorted tooling. I made chuck keys for the 8" 4-jaw chuck, and then overhauled the chuck, and overhauled the 3-jaw chuck. (Both interesting exercises in their own righ!)

Finally, I used the Logan to make new cross slide and compound slide crank handles for the Atlas. Now it's sold, gone, and I've got room to tackle the Logan.

Here is the starting point, prior to whatever degree of restoration I get done.


Some major issues I hope to remedy:


*QCGB*: left selector arm is almost frozen. With the aid of a brass rod and a mallet, it does shift and appears to work okay. Hard to read the gear chart, if it doesn't clean up then I'll get one from Logan Actuator.
*Headstock:* Backgear lever missing the detent mechanism. Oil leaking on the left hand spindle pulley. I'm not sure if it's leaking from the "Oil" setscrew or the other setscrew, and not sure if the setscrews are quite the right length and type.
*Apron and saddle*: Apron leaks oil. I'm not sure when the lathe was lasted oiled, but it didn't appear to be very recently. Hopefully the prior owner(s) didn't do too much damage. There is no carriage lock, so I plan to make one or order one. Handwheel bushing is very worn and will be replaced. I assume that several other bushings in the apron are also worn. We'll see when I tear it down. Power feeds are in working condition; I'm not expecting major problems.
*Appearance: *Ugly paint. The blue on the belt cover, legs, and tailstock is not too bad, but the headstock, bed,  QCGB, apron/saddle, and tray need to be restored. I guess I'll make them blue to match.
*Leveling:*The garage floor is not level. I plan to get/make some jackscrew-type levelers to put under the feet.
And then there are many minor issues, other minor missing parts. I'm sure I'll be assembling a shopping list or two for Logan Actuator.

And now it's July, Stay tuned as I dig in. I welcome your feedback, ideas, hints, comments of any kind.
     Greg


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## stevecmo

Greg,

Welcome to the forum.  Looks like you've got a nice Logan there.  And congratulations on your retirement!  You'll find that the Logan is a huge step up from the Craftsman 618, but you probably already know that.  

Looks like you've already got the QC tool holder installed.  Did that come with the lathe and you're only needing the tool holders?  I sounds like you are going to completely tear it down.  That's a good move.  You'll learn how everything works and you'll be able to inspect and correct as needed.  If you are going that far, I would recommend you strip the paint a put on a new coat.  Personally, I would not try to match the blue.  You would be better off using something that is more traditional - machinery gray or green.  The original Logan blue/gray is tough to match.  

I made hockey puck leveling feet for both my lathe and mill and they work great.  I have some pic's of both in this Logan/Rockwell forum.  

Good luck and feel free to ask questions if you run into a problem.

Steve


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## Rennkafer

Welcome!  Your 820 looks like a good starting point and definitely an upgrade from the Craftsman.  Not sure if you know but Logan still supports their lathes with parts (www.lathe.com).  They're a little spendy but if you can't find a piece on EBay or wherever it's better than not having the part.  I'm just getting to the end of going through my 2555VL Logan (12x24) and it's definitely worth the effort.

Looking forward to more pics!


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## Chuck K

Congrats on the new lathe.  Logan 820s are great machines.  With new bushings and a little tlc it will do nice work.  Most of the stuff you need, like bushings and such can be found at a hardware store or supply house.  For 5 or 6 bucks you can replace all the bushings in the apron and qc gearbox.  If its had a lot of use you might find that some of the shafts are a bit worn too.  Pretty easy stuff to make if you have another lathe to use while that one is apart.  Good luck with your project.

Chuck


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## RandyM

I'm on the edge of my seat. Keep the posts coming. You are going to have one sweet machine once your are finished.


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## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Thanks for the comments*

Guys - Thank you for the encouragement and suggestions

The Phase II+ AXA tool post was on the lathe when I bought it. But no tool holders, so eBay, Amazon, lathe.com (Logan Actuator) and Little Machine Shop have supplied my tool holders and the other recent purchases.

Steve: I will, for sure, check out your "hockey puck" leveling feet info.

On the color issue, I realize that blue is non-traditional, whether or not I go with something else is TBD. Removing paint and painting is not my strong suit, so I'm inclined to keep that which is good, and redo the rest to match (assuming I can get a match.) Back in the Navy, and then again as a computer field engineer, I learned that if it works, don't mess with it. Here that applies to the paint.

Yesterday I removed the apron and saddle. The photo sequences on http://thepitchingmachine.com/lathe/LoganLathe.html were a big help. So far, a surprisingly easy teardown. I will show some detail in a subsequent message. I haven't opened up the apron yet, but other than bushings, nothing seems too bad. Nothing that would need a lathe to fabricate. I think it's cool how we can use a lathe to make its own parts! If needed, I will take measurements, reassemble the Logan, make the parts, and then do the disassembly/reassembly/repainting. Consider this pass as "exploratory surgery." And I may want to turn some bushing puller/pusher tools. 

Greg


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## Chuck K

I kinda like the blue.  Actually the original logan color has a lot of blue in it.  When I go to look at a machine and I see different color parts, my first thought is that the owner took parts from another machine to complete the one he's selling.  Nothing wrong with that, but you might have to do some shimming to make the tailstock the right height.  Did it come with a threading dial?  I don't see one in the pics.

Chuck


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## Rixtools

I am going to enjoy watching your restoration. Your 820 looks  just like my 1820.


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## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Colors, Apron*

Chuck,

Thanks for your comments and the caution about multiple colors potentially indicating a "hybrid heritage." That thought had already occurred to me; an initial check on the tailstock alignment was okay. It's an odd collection of parts that are blue: tailstock, the legs, and the belt covers. Another possible explanation may be that these blue parts are each easy pieces to isolate for painting, without a lot of disasembly/reassembly. (I wish they had also done the pan while they were at it.)
When I got the lathe, yes, it was missing the threading dial. I got one from eBay (and it's yet a different color: lettuce-green.) Now the only missing part is the carriage lock. As I said earlier, I plan to make one. A picture on eBay gives me a good idea what it needs to look like.
I now have the apron disassembled enough to see what parts may be needed. I just sent an order to Logan Actuator for a gear and some bushings. Everything else looks okay. As I cleaned off the accumulated grime, I discovered that original gray-blue color on the back of the apron. Yeah, it is a nice color too. We'll see. While I wait for the bushings, I'll prep the apron for painting.

Greg


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## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Apron Teardown*

Here's a progress report on my 820 overhaul...I now have the apron and its components disassembled, cleaned, masked, primed and repainted​


[*=1]The following parts were seriously worn. Question to the group: any reason why just these parts are worn? Any additional lubrication needed here?

[*=1]Apron handwheel shaft bushings (shaft is okay) 
[*=1]Longitudinal drive gear, shaft, and bushings (see picture below with the old and new pieces) Outer end of the shaft was worn way down to 0.475" (from 0.498) The gear teeth were heavily worn where they engage the rack. 
 
[*=1]All other apron parts seem okay 
[*=1]I scraped and brushed off most of the junky old paint. As I mentioned in a prior message, I did discover that original blue-gray on the inside, underneath the grime and sludge. But I've decided to use a standard "machine gray" as the basic color and have scraped and brushed the old paint off the apron and its arms/wheels/knobs. I'll use gun "bluing" on bolts and other exposed small spots. And based on some other restoration pictures that look good, I'll try some red trim (like on the handwheel hub / spokes and other pieces.) 
[*=1]Now I've got the repair parts from Logan Actuator and will start the reassembly. 
​






   Greg


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## Redlineman

Dang;

Color choice? I was not quite in time. Benjamin Moore Baby Seal Grey 2119-30. Very very close to the original and exceptionally attractive color. I am in the process of restoring a 1942 Model 200, and that was one of the first things I researched. The first pic is under my nameplate. The second is that nameplate with the Benjamin Moore color Photoshopped into the background. The originals can vary widely from life circumstance, but the BM color is pretty close. I've painted some pieces and it is VERY handsome.

Not too late...


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## gjmontll

Redlineman,

Thanks for the info and pictures. Yes, I've seen several mentions of the Baby Seal Gray in various forums. But I don't have spray gun capabilities and while that might be nice, it's not currently in the cards. 
By the way, my model 820 does not have a label plate, as shown in your photo. There's no sign of one having been on my machine and I don't see it in Logan Parts List or on the Logan website.

Greg


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## Chuck K

Greg, It looks like your moving right along with your restoration.  The worn shafts in the apron are pretty common.  Same thing with the shaft the gear change handles ride on in the quick change box.  Also the countershaft in the drive assembly.  They seem to be areas that are neglected by a lot of users.  If I ever found one with oil in the apron when I bought it I would feel like I won the lottery.)  I have been keeping my eyes open for another 820.  It's one of my favorite lathes.  I'm sure one will show up one of these days.  Your going to like yours when you get it going. Keep the pics coming.

Chuck


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## TomKro

Greg:

  I'm currently in the process of painting some parts with that Baby Seal Gray paint.  It really covers nice and goes a long way. 

  I'm also brushing the paint on, and I'm not so sure it needs primer if going onto clean bare metal.  The reason I'm bringing this up is that I was using some sort of high solids primer (zinc, I'm guessing), and I wish I would have thinned it some, as the shiny paint really shows the brush marks in the primer.  I painted the tailstock wrench without primer, and it looked a lot better than the primed parts.  If you choose to prime, you might want to rattle can prime, and go for a couple of lite coats before a brush on top coat.    

  By the way - nice lathe.  

TomKro


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## Chuck K

Tomkro, I'm with you on the primer.  I've done it several ways.  I've sprayed both the primer and topcoat....by far the best looking if you want to go all the way.  I've brushed on universal and epoxy primers and then brushed on topcoat....I had a lot of brush marks.  I've brushed just 2 or 3 coats of rustoleum...I've had pretty good results with that. The cast parts look great.  The big sheet metal parts have some brush marks, but thinning the paint reduces them a lot.  I would rather just clean an old machine and leave the weathered paint but usually when I get them they have clown colors on them.

Chuck


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## Redlineman

Hey;

Who's spraying? Too much time, effort, material, and mess for no gain on a rough cob like cast iron. I'm brushing! That old time Alkyd Enamel flows like lava. I brush it on the bare casting with whatever brush I have handy. I then take a roller and even it out, almost like stippling with a brush end. It then settles and flows out to a perfect even finish. It really works superbly. If you want to go the extra mile, you can get a hardener for Alkyd. Benjamin Moore does not offer one, but I'm betting most other Alkyd hardeners would work. I don't think anyone could tell how it was applied, one way or the other!


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## richz

Looking good. Do you have the carriage apron togther yet? If not could you post a picture of the carriage lock. I need to make one for my Logan.


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## gjmontll

Hi Richz

No I don't have the apron back together yet. I have a question for y'all: I've seen some mentions of using some sealant, e.g. silicone gasket maker, on the mating surfaces of the two apron halves. I assume that at least some of the oil leaking from the apron while it is just sitting idle is from that joint. I would think that if it should have had a gasket there, Logan would have had one there. Your thoughts?

On the carriage lock (aka saddle lock), as I've said earlier, my machine was missing it when I bought it. I've looked at a few on eBay, but I plan to make my own. I've made measurements and a rough drawing of my planned lock plate. I will probably make it over the weekend. and will post some details. Meanwhile, I'd appreciate it if somebody could tell us the rough measurements of the bolt. I'm thinking a 5/16xNC18 bolt with a square head. (Machinery's Handbook specifies a 1/2" square head for 5/16" bolts, but that seems rather too large. Maybe a 3/8" square is better?)

Greg


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## Chuck K

gjmontll said:


> Hi Richz
> 
> No I don't have the apron back together yet. I have a question for y'all: I've seen some mentions of using some sealant, e.g. silicone gasket maker, on the mating surfaces of the two apron halves. I assume that at least some of the oil leaking from the apron while it is just sitting idle is from that joint. I would think that if it should have had a gasket there, Logan would have had one there. Your thoughts?
> 
> On the carriage lock (aka saddle lock), as I've said earlier, my machine was missing it when I bought it. I've looked at a few on eBay, but I plan to make my own. I've made measurements and a rough drawing of my planned lock plate. I will probably make it over the weekend. and will post some details. Meanwhile, I'd appreciate it if somebody could tell us the rough measurements of the bolt. I'm thinking a 5/16xNC18 bolt with a square head. (Machinery's Handbook specifies a 1/2" square head for 5/16" bolts, but that seems rather too large. Maybe a 3/8" square is better?)
> 
> Greg



Just run a bead of silicone between the halves. I've done that and never seen a leak.

Chuck


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## woodtickgreg

I just found this, nice work so far! Keep the pics coming as I will enjoy following your work on this lathe. Nice to watch others projects come together. I just brush the paint on the bare cast metal, 2 coats seem to work well. If I rattle can spray the bigger parts like the legs and pan and such then I use a primer first. If your parts breakdown doesn't show a gasket for the apron then clean it well with a rag and brake clean and use automotive silicone gasket material.


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## CluelessNewB

> I'm thinking a 5/16xNC18 bolt with a square head. (Machinery's Handbook specifies a 1/2" square head for 5/16" bolts, but that seems rather too large. Maybe a 3/8" square is better?)



Mine is in fact 5/16-18 with a 3/8" square head and a flat washer.  The washer is a very close fit to the 5/16" bolt, I don't think a normal 5/16 washer would work well with the small 3/8" head.  

A replacement handwheel shaft was my very first project on the lathe.  Both the shaft and bronze bearings were worn.  When I took the apron apart the second time (to replace the shaft) I wish I had put sealant on my apron halves... drip drip drip  Someday I will take it apart again and do that!

The partially completed new shaft and the carriage lock bolt can bee seen in this picture:


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## TomKro

Greg - I just realized you already started the gray paint.  Those parts look real nice  (and no baby seals were harmed in the making of the paint...).

  I happen to have my model 200/210 carriage in pieces, so I took a pic for reference.   Again - not your model, but definitely the smaller 3/8 square head, about 5/16 total head height, including the crown.  This one has a round collar, 5/8 OD, 3/8 inch tall.  I can't tell if it's threaded on, or just pressed on tight.    Hope this helps.


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## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration -Thanks for the carriage lock info*

TomKro and CluelessNewB

Thanks for the details on the carriage lock/bolt and all. I may start out with a generic hardware store hex head bolt while I make the lock plate and get the sizes all figured out. Then mill a hex head down to the configuration you guys described. As you say, a little bit of collar will be needed to hold the washer; and I see the parts list calls for a hardened washer. If I don't have one, guess I'll make one. Or maybe just case-harden a plain washer.

Greg


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## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Making a carriage lock (aka saddle lock)*

Okay, today  I made a carriage lock for my Logan 820. (It was missing when I bought it in February.)
Thanks,TomKro, for his picture posted to this thread yesterday! 
I made the lock plate from 1" x 3/16" steel and a 5/16NC18 x 2" generic hardware store bolt for now. Once the lathe is back together, I'll make the Logan style square-head bolt.

To make the clamp contact humps, I welded on another tiny piece of the 1" x 3/16". It didn't actually seem necessary, the plain plate did clamp okay, but I didn't want to contact against the lower front edge of the way.

Here was the test fitting, with a 6" ruler stuck on the apron for size reference. 



Close-ups of the lock assembly parts



And finally, I like to treat small parts with gun "blue" ... using "Birchwood Casey Super Blue"



Next step, reassemble the apron. 

Bye for now,
     Greg


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## drs23

Great job on your project. I LOVE to see these old staples of American Iron being brought back to service. My hat's off to you and all the others that have tackled these projects to bring them back to their former glory.

Thanks for sharing. These restorations are quickly becoming my favorite reason to log on every day!

Please keep up posted as you continue to bring it back to life.


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## richz

Greg in the picture with your home built carriage lock do you think it might bend when locking down the carriage?


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## gjmontll

Richz
   I see your point. But in my brief test (when taking that picture), I just snugged down on the lock nut hand-tight with a nutdriver. That certainly seemed to lock the carriage in place adequately. 

On the other hand, it probably wouldn't hurt to do the following:


  Build up the front edge of the lock plate a little bit (where it would better bear against the apron casting, giving a more parallel action. A little bit of welding bead should do it. 
  Perhaps case-harden the lock plate. 

   Thanks, 
      Greg



richz said:


> Greg in the picture with your home built carriage lock do you think it might bend when locking down the carriage?


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## rdhem2

WOW!  Is this a disease that inflicts Logan 820's?  Missing the carriage lock.  I purchased my 820 in 1981 and it too was missing the carriage lock bar.  Bolt and washers were there just no bar.  I made a quickie out of some 1/4" x 3/4" flat and never looked back.  No humps or bumps.  Did not know it needed them.  Thought at the time I would come back later and fix it better but it works just fine as is and has since '81.  And I use the lathe quite often, my favorite in the shop, maybe cause I have used it the most and longest!


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## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Starting reassembly - handwheel shaft issue and questions*

I've started the reassembly of the apron, after replacing the bushings for the handwheel shaft and the longitudinal drive gear shaft (and the drive gear that engages the rack) and repainting. 

But even with new bushings, the handwheel shaft is sloppy loose. I hadn't realized how badly worn it is. The wear surfaces measure about 0.594. I assume the correct diameter is about 0.625 (less a little bit for a running fit.) Wow that's worn! Can anyone confirm this? 

Now, how to replace this shaft? Logan Actuator doesn't list one, and the ones on eBay are for Logan 200's. Similar but not identical (the shaft and gear seem to be just one piece, and the gear only a 16-tooth (mine is 20 tooth.) So I guess I will put the lathe back together and make a shaft (or two.) I just ordered a #404 Woodruff keyseat cutter for this task.

Now, a question on material. Testing the worn shaft with a file, it appears to be no harder than a piece of 5/8 hot-rolled steel rod, nor a piece of plated 5/8" rod. (Both from hardware stores.) Should/must the shaft be hardened? If so, I need to get a piece of 5/8 drill rod.

Meanwhile, here's the apron in progress



Greg


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## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Saddle teardown*

This week's progress (aka problem) report:
   I'd said I needed to make a new handwheel shaft. But of course, that will require putting the lathe back together again temporarily. Before doing that I figured that I'd see what other parts might need some lathe action. 

The cross feed screw (LA-153) has several issues: 

The threads at the "handwheel end" are a bit chewed up. Looking at the Parts Catalog, I now see that sometime during this 820's long career, the handwheel disappeared and was replaced with a crank, likewise on the compound slide. Properly done, a crank would be fine. But instead of a keyway for a woodruff key, the crank has a fixed pin to act as the key. And on the screw shaft, the short woodruff keyseat has been machined into a regular keyseat slot all the way to the end, so that this crank/pin can slide into place. [I wonder if the compound slide is similarly afflicted?] 
The "bushing" LA-689 has some wear in its bronze bushings (612) and the feed screw is worn at those bushings. Sloppy, but not extreme; maybe 0.005 total play. I bought replacement bushings.
Design questions: what is supposed to serve as a thrust bearing in this mechanism? It seems that that first step in the screw shaft diameter (to 0.500) bears against the end of the bronze bushing and the side of the cross feed idler gear bears against the steel LA-689 bushing. Maybe a bronze flat washer in between would help. And how to keep these bearing/bushing surfaces lubricated? I don't see how the felt washers on the other side of the gear would help. Or are they supposed to sandwich the gear? 
By the way, inability to oil those bushings in the apron for the handwheel and the longitudinal drive shaft probably contributed to their excessive wear. They are too high up to benefit from the apron's oil sump, right? I am thinking about drilling a hole or two in the apron casting so that some oil can be manually feed. 
 
Acme thread wear: near the ends of the acme thread, I find no measurable end-play. But an inch or two down, there's 0.007" play.  That suggests the wear is mainly in the shaft and not the Acme nut. 
Assuming I want to remedy these issues, I can buy one or make one. But replacement LA-153 screws are too expensive and the 7/16 Acme 10 TPI thread is non-standard. I didn't find any commercially-available source. For now, I will go with what I've got. maybe later I will try machining a new one. An alternative might be to machine the front part and splice it onto some standard 1/2" 10 TPI Acme "all thread." Of course, a different nut would be needed. I need to see if there's clearance for this "upgrade."

One of the way wipers was missing. Not just the felt, the whole assembly. I fabricated a replacement from scrap.

This photo shows the parts discussed above (cross feed shaft/screw, bushings, way wipers)


Okay, for this weekend, I will replace the bushings, reassembly the saddle and apron, and perhaps start making that handwheel shaft  (LA-549) now that I have a woodruff keyseat cutter.

    Greg


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## Redlineman

Hey;

I doubt any of the Logan shafts are of exotic material or hardened excessively, if at all. My intuition says you wouldn't want the shafts to be out of proportion in hardness to the bushings. A proper balance there is probably best for normal service life longevity.

Another option for tightening up shafts that are worn is to make your own bushings to fit them. This might be the easiest path, and cheapest, eh? Polish the shafts and make 660 or Oilite bushings to fit what you've got. I've got a very old Prentice Bros. gear head engine lathe in the same state. Can't buy shafts, some that are worn .010. I'm truing up the shafts and making bushings to fit so I can take some tooth load off those old gears.

Having said that, if it were a shaft worn out of round, I'd want a new one.


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## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Saddle/apron reassembly, make new shaft*

Progress report:
Reassembled the apron and saddle. To summarize from before, I've replaced the handwheel bushings and the longitudinal drive bushing/shaft/gear. But as I said earlier, the handwheel shaft is very badly worn, so this reassembly is only in order to machine a new shaft. 
But first, I decided to work on the cross slide and compound slide assemblies. I cleaned them, repainted them, and replaced the bushings. On the compound, the inboard bushing was entirely missing! I keep wondering how many years it's been since this machine was thoroughly maintained. Next year it will be 70 years old.

    Photo below: Here it is all back together, certainly looking much better. Until last week I hadn't know that the cross slide crank was non-standard and that it originally had a handwheel here. 




And it's running great, despite my having totally disassembled and reassembled every last piece so far. But it did need it; it was not a violation of the "If it works, don't f*** with it" rule. Some assemblies may not need this full treatment. We shall see...  
So, now that it's back in operation, I made the replacement handwheel shaft. First time I've every cut a keyslot but it seemed to turn out good enough. Yesterday, I removed the apron and replaced the shaft. Boy, I hate Woodruff keys!

  Photo below: my replacement handwheel shaft, with my "engineering notes" for it.



I think the next step will be to tackle the quick change gearbox. So far, the only QCGB problem I'm aware of is a very sticky left selector arm. I may again need to temporarily reassembly the lathe to machine some replacement parts, so at first, I don't intend to remove more than necessary.

    Greg


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## drs23

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Saddle/apron reassembly, make new shaft*



gjmontll said:


> Progress report:
> Reassembled the apron and saddle. To summarize from before, I've replaced the handwheel bushings and the longitudinal drive bushing/shaft/gear. But as I said earlier, the handwheel shaft is very badly worn, so this reassembly is only in order to machine a new shaft.
> But first, I decided to work on the cross slide and compound slide assemblies. I cleaned them, repainted them, and replaced the bushings. On the compound, the inboard bushing was entirely missing! I keep wondering how many years it's been since this machine was thoroughly maintained. Next year it will be 70 years old.
> 
> Photo below: Here it is all back together, certainly looking much better. Until last week I hadn't know that the cross slide crank was non-standard and that it originally had a handwheel here.
> 
> View attachment 60010
> 
> 
> And it's running great, despite my having totally disassembled and reassembled every last piece so far. But it did need it; it was not a violation of the "If it works, don't f*** with it" rule. Some assemblies may not need this full treatment. We shall see...
> So, now that it's back in operation, I made the replacement handwheel shaft. First time I've every cut a keyslot but it seemed to turn out good enough. Yesterday, I removed the apron and replaced the shaft. Boy, I hate Woodruff keys!
> 
> Photo below: my replacement handwheel shaft, with my "engineering notes" for it.
> View attachment 60013
> 
> 
> I think the next step will be to tackle the quick change gearbox. So far, the only QCGB problem I'm aware of is a very sticky left selector arm. I may again need to temporarily reassembly the lathe to machine some replacement parts, so at first, I don't intend to remove more than necessary.
> 
> Greg



Greg,

Great job! I think I've mentioned it before but if I haven't, these machine restoration projects are by far the favorite part of my hobby-machinist "voyeurism".

All of you guys just impress the hell out of me with your skills and attention to detail and when completed you all have machines that are as good or better than the day they went into service!

I can't express the admiration I have for all you folks that take heavy scrap and return them to their former glory.

Keep up the good work!


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## CluelessNewB

Somewhere I have some engineering notes that look just like that!


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## dogbed

Good stuff. Keep it coming!


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## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - QCGB Teardown Part 1*

Started the overhaul of the quick change gearbox (QCGB) today. Here it is before starting the job. I've never worked on a QCGB before, this should be interesting.


Removing the gearbox was easier than expected. (Apron was already removed.) About a half hour job, including taking pictures and taking notes.


Remove the three bolts on the top edge and the two bolts and bracket on the right side. 
Remove the nut, spacer, and gear from the input drive shaft. 
Loosen the clamp bolt on the gear arm on left side. 
Loosen the bolt holding the rear guide arm (LA-510 Step Bracket). 
Remove the gear arm with gear assembly. 
Pulled the QCGB loose from its locating pins. 

Then with the assembly on the bench, started to inspect, clean and disassemble it. This took many hours (quite some time cleaning and starting paint removal)


Removed the lead screw by removing the nut and 24-tooth gear. (Held the shaft with vise-grips, protecting the shaft with a strip of aluminum from a soda can.) 
A quick visual check of the gears -- all look okay, no broken or obviously worn teeth. 
But the slider shaft is badly scored, as suspected, since the left slider was very hard to move back and forth. Contrary to the Logan Parts Catalog, my slider shaft does not have a collar on the left side nor a bolt on the right side to hold it in place. Mine has a 1/8" pin through the bearing block on the right side. See photo below. This is perhaps a more elegant(?) way of restraining the shaft, but seems non-standard.*Does anyone else have a similar shaft? If so why isn't it in the Parts Catalog? * 
Made a drawing of the shaft, in preparation of making a replacement. My shaft has a circumferential groove near the right end and is 8 15/16" long. It looks easy enough to make one, and I already have 3 feet of 3/4" steel rod on hand. *Can someone tell me how long the "normal" shaft (with the collar on the left end) is?  Might anyone else need one of these shafts? * 
Onto the shifter arm assemblies... I started cleaning up the grease, crud and old paint trying to figure how to get the gears out. The pin was so tight and I couldn't be sure which way it had to be driven out. Hammering with a brass rod didn't work. Maybe it's loctited? Heated with a propane torch, still nothing. Finally used my vise as a press, using socket wrenches as backing plates and drive pins. This finally worked. Measured the wear on the pins, about .003 of asymmetric wear. Logan Actuator has these pins (#LP-1193) for $7.25 each. Since I don't have any 7/16" rod in my raw materials collection, maybe I'll just order these. OTOH, maybe I'll make these too. And I'll need some bushings for the gears (7/16 I.D, 9/16 O.D, 1/2" long). 
This photo shows the right side of the QCGB and is annotated to focus on my slider shaft issue, mentioned just above. Sorry you can't read the text easily, it is basically same as described in the above narrative. Next time I promise larger text. But it's late, sorry.


That's all for today. Next shop session, I will finish the teardown. I did not feel any play on the input shaft, it may be okay. But I do feel significant play on the "middle shaft" (LA-470 - shaft with the dozen or so gears). Maybe more parts to make or buy?

  Greg


----------



## Chuck K

I had a logan with the pin in the shaft.  I think is was on my 922.  Others had 1/4 - 20 bolt with washers on each end.  I don't recall the exact length of the shaft but it isn't real critical.  I've had several 10" logans and everyone of them had worn shafts.  If you want it to work really nice, bore the holes in the handles and put bushings in them...that's assuming they're worn like the ones I've had.  When you get to the point of reassembling the gear clusters, either make a dummy shaft or use a piece of dowel to hold the gears in place while you push the shaft through.  It'll save a lot of frustration.  Good luck

Chuck


----------



## stevecmo

Greg,

As Chuck said, those shafts are normally worn since there's no good way to lube them.  Mine has the bolt/washer at each end as well.  It's difficult to measure the length when it's installed but it looks to be about 9".  Once you have it apart it should be easy to measure the outside of the bosses of the casting.  I would go the bolt/washer at each end as it's an easy make.

Hope that helps.

Steve


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - QCGB Teardown Part 2 of 2*

*Steve and Chuck,
   Thanks for your comments. *I am now leaning toward making the slider with the bolts, rather than the groove/pin. I am thinking with the bolts, it might be easy to pull the slider shaft and clean/lube the slider and selector arms/gears without pulling the whole gearbox off, as would be needed to knock the pin out on my current shaft.  Speaking of lubrication, besides oil in the oil cups, what's best on the gears? A graphite grease would be my initial choice.
 As Chuck suggests in today's earlier message, maybe bore out the selector arms and add bronze bushings. But securely holding the casting in my mini-mill for the boring may be tricky. I'll investigate further. 
And I had read some earlier discussion that mentioned using the dummy shaft/dowel to help in replacing the 14 gears onto the "main shaft." Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the gearbox is off the lathe, it doesn't seem to be any problem to reassemble the gear cluster. Or is this a "field stripping" similar to what I discussed above with the slider?

*Today I finished the teardown and inspection of the QCGB. *
   First was the drive or "input" shaft.Removed the nut and washer on the inboard end, then pulled the shaft out, releasing the two gears. The leftmost gear is keyed to the shaft, no problem there. But the rightmost gear rides on a bushing that needs replacement. The shaft and its bushings in the casting are okay. Here is what I'm talking about...​
​ 
Then, what I'm calling the "main shaft", the one with the fourteen gears on it.Loosen the setscrew on the wide gear, then tap it out from the left end. This shaft is rather badly worn, enough that it needs to be replaced. So do the bushings on the three left side gears and the bushing on the left side of the casting.  
​And now, the casting is an empty hulk, ready for cleaning, bushing replacements as needed, and repainting. The label plate with the various setting combinations is faded, but not too bad. I will carefully see if I can brighten it up.

​*Next steps* will be to double check my measurements, temporarily reassemble/reinstall the gearbox, and make the new slider shaft, main shaft, and the gear pins. And hopefully to bore and bush the selector arms per Chuck's recommendation. Then tear it down again and install the new parts. Somewhere along the way, repainting too.

   Greg


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## Chuck K

Greg, You'll understand what I mean about frustration when you start trying to line up all of the keyed gears to get the shaft through.  You might get lucky and they just fall into place but the dowel makes it easy.  I guess your handles must be all wallowed out like most of them I've seen.  It's not as hard to set them up for boring as it appears.  I have to check and see if I have any pics.  I think I just held them in my vise. If you decide to bush the handles, don't try to get too close on your fit or you will be pulling the shaft back out and polishing it down to make your handles slide easier....been there done that.)

Chuck


----------



## gjmontll

Thanks again Chuck! I guess I will see today as I put it together. I have plenty of things to use as the dummy shaft. An idea to help line up all those keyways: on each gear, I think it will help to use some Dykem to mark the gear tooth that lines up with the keyway. [Once I get the gears all clean and shining.)
   Greg



Chuck K said:


> Greg, You'll understand what I mean about frustration when you start trying to line up all of the keyed gears to get the shaft through.  You might get lucky and they just fall into place but the dowel makes it easy.  I guess your handles must be all wallowed out like most of them I've seen.  It's not as hard to set them up for boring as it appears.  I have to check and see if I have any pics.  I think I just held them in my vise. If you decide to bush the handles, don't try to get too close on your fit or you will be pulling the shaft back out and polishing it down to make your handles slide easier....been there done that.)
> 
> Chuck


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - QCGB Shafts Pt 1*

While waiting on some replacement parts from Logan Actuator (bushings and pins), I’ve begun making the replacements for the worn shafts identified during the teardown, as detailed in the recent posts. First on the list: the slider shaft for the selector arms. First, I needed to reassemble the QCGB and apron/saddle so I could use the lathe to make the new shafts. 

Reassembling the gearbox was not too difficult, except that somewhere in my efforts, the detent pin on the right shift arm got bent. I must have force-fit something when reassembling the shift arms onto the slider shaft (and getting the gears engaged with the cluster gears. I don't think that pin will come out the front, will it? I will have to work on this when I replace the slider shaft, may need to make a new pin. By the way, the order I put the parts together was input shaft/gears, main shaft/cluster gears, slider shaft/gears/arms, and finally, the leadscrew. The slider/shift arms was the hardest part. 

You may remember that a few weeks ago, in the apron/saddle restoration, I had to put the lathe back together so that I could make a new shaft for the apron handwheel. Then I had to pull the apron off, split it open, replace the shaft, and reassemble again. But I never put the apron back on the saddle to test it, instead I dove into the QCGB overhaul. 

With everything back together, I quickly found that the handwheel didn’t work! The power feeds were okay, but not the manual… Tore it apart again and quickly saw that I’d put the gear on backwards. Doh! Turned the gear around, redid the gasket maker again (third time) and now all is well.

Then, my raw material for the shaft was going to be a chunk of ¾” rod from Home Depot. It may have been a nominal ¾”, but the micrometer said it was a bit too small. So I got a yard of ¾” drill rod; my finished, polished shaft is 0.7500” and fits very nicely into the replacement bushings.

In an earlier posting in this thread (QCGB Teardown 1), I discussed how my QCGB slider shaft was not in accordance with the parts catalog, since it was pinned into place, rather than a collar and bolt. I decided that I would follow the parts catalog on this. Thus I made the new shaft about 0.5" longer than the incumbent one, and drilled/tapped each end for 1/4NC20 bolts. This was partially for operational purposes, and also to help mount the shaft on the mill for cutting the ⅛” keyslot. See the pictures below for my machining setup.



This was the first time I've used my slitting saw, and unfortunately, the blade's hole is a few thou bigger than the arbor's diameter. The resulting run-out would cause one or two teeth to do most of the cutting. Not good. I mitigated the run-out with a paper shim, but it was still a problem. 

So I cut the 0.118 deep keyslot about .010" (or less) at a time. Let's see: call it 20 passes x 8 inches x 16 turns/inch = approximately 2560 turns on the X-handwheel. While I was cranking back and forth, (at about maybe 30 rpm) I was thinking how nice a motorized feed would be. Maybe a future project? But certainly not in time for the next QCGB piece, the "main" shaft; it needs 3.5" of 3/16" wide, 1/8" deep keyslot. I will start on it today.

And here is a close-up on how I held the shaft, using the threaded end holes for mounting brackets, while cutting the keyslot. 


   Bye for now,
      Greg


----------



## Chuck K

Wow...as Ricky Bobby's kids would say,  "You made that shaft your b****".   I've made those shafts a couple of times, but I just hold the shaft in the vice and cut it with an endmill.  The slot turned out nice and uniform.  The bushings your waiting on could probably be found at your local hardware store.  They would probably be about the same price as Logan charges.  I order them from Motion Industries.  Unless it's one of the odd sized ones that they don't stock in their warehouse locally, they usually cost .50 - 1.00 each. The nice thing about buying them from Logan is that you don't have to remove and measure each one....you just buy the bushing kit.  Sounds like your moving right along on the project.  You make me want to find another Logan to work on.  Keep the pics coming.

Chuck


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - QCGB Shafts Pt 2*

*New shafts ready*
Okay, I've now made the two replacement shafts for the gearbox. 
As shown in my last posting, on the slider shaft, I used a slitting saw for the first time, for the long, 1/8" wide keyslot. But as I said before, it was many shallow passes; slow going, but with good results.
Then last week, I made the replacement "main" shaft. This is the one with three diameters (3/4", 5/8", and 9/16") and a 3/16" wide x 1/8" deep keyslot. (The shaft with the fourteen gears on it.) I tried to do this with a 3/16 slitting saw, but it was even slower than the previous slitting task. After many passes and only about 0.050" penetration, I decided that my X2 mini-mill lacked the necessary low-speed torque (or rigidity?) to do this job right, at least in steel stock. 
So I followed Chuck K's advice, rotated the in-process slot to the 12 o'clock position and quickly finished the slot with a 4-flute end mill. Bonus: this also left the work aligned to drill the 0.062 in the bottom of the slot, for the tiny pin on the key. 

Somewhere I'd read that one should use a 2-flute end mill for slitting, because 4-flutes didn't do a nice job. And, one shouldn't try to cut both side of the slot at once. Oh well; I took shallow cuts (0.010 - 0.015 range) and it worked fine. I don't own any 2-flutes, maybe I should?

*Gearbox Damage?*
While waiting for my QCBG bushings to show up, I decided to make some replacement fillister-head screws for ones with screwed-up screwdriver slots. First up, the 1/4-20 NC x 1.5" screws for the front gibs. 
I had mentioned that somehow, during gearbox reassemble, I forced something and bent the right shift arm detent pin. Apparently I damaged more than just that pin. When I set up to single-point thread this screw I found it very difficult to get the right-hand shift arm into the 20-TPI position.  But, very stupidly, I managed to force it into gear. And, when I turned the lathe on, in slow speed, back-gear mode, it basically stalled. (aka crashed?) I haven't yet pulled the gearbox, but turning the gears by hand and trying to engage the right shifter into all but the rightmost one or two positions, I can feel something is now eccentric. I hope it's a bent main shaft and not damaged gear teeth! 
This afternoon or tomorrow I will pull the QCGB and see what I have done.

   This is why my wife doesn't let me work on her brakes anymore! 
   Your ham-fisted, would-be machinist,
         Greg


"Give me a hammer."
"What size?"
"It doesn't matter... I'm gonna use it as a hammer."​


----------



## pestilence

Wow I hope it's nothing too serious.


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## Chuck K

I can't imagine what you could have damaged.  When you say "detent pin" I'm assuming you mean the spring loaded pin that holds the lever in position.  I suppose it's possible that it's allowing the the gear to be pushed in too tight.  If there's no broken teeth your in good shape.

Chuck


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Fixing the QCGB*

I pulled the gearbox to see what I had done wrong on my previous reassembly, and what damage has been done.  As I had said before, the right shift arm would not properly engage into the gears (except for the rightmost one.) And the tip of the spring-loaded detent pin was bent.
For reference purposes, here again is the inside of the gearbox from the bottom, prior to my initial disassembly.


You can see that the left and right shift arm assemblies are mirror-images of each other, including the two gears captive on each arm. My mistake was that on the right arm, I put the two gears on backwards, so that the spacer was toward the center rather than to the right. I should have referred to the picture! This caused the gears to be out of position by 1/4" to the right, where they would try to engage the next gear over on the main shaft. And since next gear to the right is a larger gear, no wonder the arm would not come up enough to engage the pin. 

Luckily, no catastrophic damage, all the teeth are still good. I thought I may have bent the main shaft or the slider shaft, but now I don't think so. I don't know what was making it feel out-of-round when I was trying to force the right shifter into place. Best as I can tell at the moment, the main shaft is not bent, but I haven't removed it yet. 
I straightened the detent pin as best I could, and will at least make some accurate measurements of its dimensions so I  can make a replacement. I might just go ahead and do that without the gearbox. We'll see.

My home-made slider shaft was almost ready-to-go. But it seems my 0.125 slitting saw only cuts about 0.118 slot. I had been obsessing on the slot depth and never double checked that width. For the keyed gear to fit, I needed to widen the slot. So I ran a 1/8" end mill through it and also had to deburr the slot edges. Now it's good.

Another self-inflicted wound: I slightly distorted the right shift arm casting when using my vise in either removing or replacing the gear axle pin on the shift assembly. It's not off by much, after all, the shaft and the axle do go thru, but the gear on the axle doesn't spin as readily as the one on the left shift arm (cause it's pinched by the casting), and the new slider shaft doesn't nicely slide through both sides of the casting. Those pins were really, really tight, and although I was aware of the potential, and tried to adequately support the work with makeshift spacers, something now is not quite right. 
I'm not yet sure how I am going to fix it, but the ends of the fork need to come apart to get thing back in parallel. Possibilities include 

Maybe brute force bending the gap open (with a crowbar?), 
Maybe just running a reamer through the shaft and axle holes, 
Maybe I can make a tiny nut-and-screw jack, but it has to fit into a 1/2" gap. 
Maybe I can use my gear puller/wheel puller as a pusher. This I can try pretty quickly. 
Maybe I can support the top fork in my 1 ton arbor press and press against the bottom fork. 
Anyone got some other ideas?

I am yet to check how well my replacement main shaft is going to fit. And after I fix the fork, then I will clean, repaint and reassemble.

   Greg


----------



## Chuck K

Greg, It's been a while since I've had one of those boxes apart, but I seem to recall that the pins that the gears ride on are knurled.  If you press them out the correct way, they come out fairly easy....not so much the other way.  I'm kind of surprised that the shift arm bent rather than cracking.  I would be reluctant to try bending it back.  I think I would relieve it a little with a file. Usually the holes the main shaft slides through are egg shaped and loose.  If you bore and bush the holes you should be able to take care of your alignment problem in the process.  Good luck

Chuck


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## Redlineman

Oh My...

I'm with Chuck. I wouldn't chance trying to bend a cast part. Only as a last resort, anyhow. I like the profile and ream idea better.


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - fixing QCGB shift arm*

Chuck K and Redlineman,
   Thanks for the ideas and the warnings about bending cast iron, I hadn't thought about the shift arm breaking. On the other hand, given that I distorted it rather than breaking it suggests that I can un-distort it safely. Would that be called "torting?" )  I only needed to spread the arms 0.005", so I tried the gear puller idea I mentioned. Here's the idea in execution...


The gear puller is pulling on one side of the shift arm fork, and pushing against a pair of fender washers sitting on the other fork. Apparently the cast iron is adequately ductile to withstand this treatment, it would flex open several thousandths, but then flex back closed, loosing most of the improvement. So I repeated a few times, working up to a 0.012 flex that when relaxed, had adequately restored the gap for the gears.
But the big holes were still not quite adequately aligned. I secured the fork in the vise, placed a piece of 3/4" rod in the hole and with the 3 feet of leverage, easily tweaked the alignment for the shaft and pin.

Chuck, you're right about the knurled ends on those pins. Luckily, when I first drove them out, I did it the right way and didn't push the knurls through the gear bushing and other end. The pins are slightly worn, so I intend to replace them. But it turns out the "replacement" pins from Logan Actuator are the wrong size (3/8" rather than 7/16"). I'm waiting to hear back from them on whether they have the parts or not. But I may just make my own from drill rod. If so, I think I will harden these pieces.

I'm now in the process of replacing bushings on the gearbox housing and  on several gears, repainting the gearbox casting and the shift arms.

Greg


----------



## Chuck K

That's a very cool accessory to have included when you buy a lathe.  The nut should be a piece of cake with the proper taps. Metallurgy isn't my strong point...but I think the nut wants to be made from either cast iron or bronze.  Not saying you couldn't make one out of brass, just don't know how it would wear.  Back to the original post.....

Greg, 
There's more than one way to skin a cat.  Glad you got it straightened out.  I'm kind of surprised that there wasn't enough wear in the holes to allow the shaft to slide through even with a little bit of twist in the casting.  The pins you need to make shouldn't be any problem at all.  I don't think there's any need to harden them.  The gears that run on them have bushings IIRC.  You should have a great machine when you get done.

Chuck


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## Redlineman

Hey;

Good deal on the handle. You're a brave man! Regarding hardening parts; never harden anything that will effect the life of an irreplaceable or difficult/expensive to replace part. Those precious parts should be the hardest things in the grouping. Make the easy to replace parts the softest.


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - still on the QCGB shift arms*

It's been a few weeks since you last heard from me... Having successfully straightened out the warped shift arm, I decided to bore and bush the shift arms, as had been suggested. I had misgivings about tackling this enhancement, but finally decided it was worth a try, assuming I could get a good setup in my mini-mill. 
To improve the odds of success, I machined a support spacer and a centering jig/bore gauge. You can see them in this photo of my milling setup.


The spacer was a nut, milled down to 0.492" thick, with a 7/8+" hole bored through. It is to prevent re-bending the arm under the clamping and boring forces and sits in the gap between the fork arms. You see it between the two lower clamp arms.
Between the two upper clamp arms, positioned for centering the quill is the jig, made from the head of a 3/4" bolt. Its bottom half is 3/4", to fit the existing holes in the casting and it has a tapped 1/4-20 hole down its center. In the photo, a drill bit being used for X-Y alignment before I switch to the boring head. The top half of the jig is 0.875" O.D. Flipping it over and screwing a bolt into the hole as a handle gives me a bore gauge to check the fit of my bronze bushings into the casting. 
A thin piece of hardwood, with a cutout to improve the support, sits under the casting so I don't try to bore into the bed.
...

Given that I've ignored the "if it works, don't **** with it" warning, have I taken adequate precautions? I think so. Did I forget anything? I don't think I did.

How did it turn out? (Note: references to X and Y are as the casting is clamped in the mill in the above photo, i.e. X is the long dimension of the arm.)

Not very well! What went wrong? The first piece I did was the right side arm. The apparent root problem was that the boss on the bottom of the casting (the side against the wood ) was not quite perpendicular with the intended hole centerline. So while the boring may have been on center at the start, it was crooked in both x and y so that by the end of the bore, it was way off: 0.030" X and 0.094" Y. A trial fitting of the shift arm on the slider shaft in the gearbox showed this was crooked enough to interfere  with the guide arm/guide slots and detent pin alignment. I'm not sure how badly it impacted the gear alignment; regardless it needed to be fixed. I will discuss that below.
On the second arm, given the mess I'd made on the first one, I bored one side, flipped it over, and did the other. Much better, but still not perfect. It should be close enough.

To fix the right arm, my plan was to machine some steel inserts, epoxy them into place, and rebore. With the crooked holes, I also had lost the "proper" center point. So I had to calculate the proper center, in X it was based on the pitch radii of the two gears. In Y, a line through the big hole center and the small hole center should be near the edge of the hole for the guide pin.  To ensure proper Z-alignment this time, I put a rod thru the small holes and shimmed the casting until the rod was parallel with the quill. (Yes, the mill is in-tram.)

This fix didn't work, the epoxy (JB-Weld) didn't hold, and the insert broke loose during boring.

What do I try next? My remaining idea is drill and tap three holes radially around the approximate centerline, then use setscrews to manuever the bushing and casting into position so the gears properly mesh and the shaft is in alignment. Once I am satisfied, I will lock them in place with the JB Weld to fill the gaps.
If that doesn't work, maybe I go to a local machine shop and see what they can do.

Anyone got any other ideas? Or a spare right shift arm for sale? (None on eBay or at Logan)

Greg


----------



## stevecmo

Greg,

Man, that's a bummer.  You'll probably need to bore it out and press in a bushing.  

Steve


----------



## Chuck K

Greg, I feel bad for mentioning that I did that to my lathe.  I just clamped them in my mill vise and bored them with a boring head.  How far oversize do you have the holes now?  Is there still enough meat left in them to be bored straight and bushed with a thicker bushing then you initially planned?  As a last resort you could braze it and build it back up.  Also, there is a guy that always lists logan parts on chicago cl.  I've bought from him before.  He buys whole lathes and parts them out.  It might be worth giving him a call and see if he has a handle. Heres one of his posts with his phone #.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/4160906606.html

Chuck


----------



## gjmontll

Chuck,
Please don't feel bad. It was a good suggestion and it worked for you. I took a risk and failed. Not the first time. My mill vise wasn't big enough to securely hold the work, so I did the direct clamping, as shown in the picture. I'm afraid that I would have likely had the same problem, even with a vise, due to that off-square boss. 
Right now the holes have been opened from 3/4" (for the shaft), to 7/8" (for the standard OD for a 3/4" ID bushing). But again, the problem is the holes are off-center. Yeah, there's enough "meat" to bore out to 1", or even more. Maybe if I had tried to braze the sleeves it would have gone better?
As you suggest, maybe I find or make some thicker bushings. I could plug it with a piece of 1" rod (bronze?) then rebore for the shaft. Now, the tricky problem is that I don't have an exact location of the original hole center line and I don't think that it is supposed to be exactly in the middle of the casting. Thus my plan for the setscrew-adjustable idea, at least to find the center by partial reassembly with shaft, gears, and the gearbox housing. Or, new idea: make a few of the 1" plug/bushings and drill them differently: 1) on-center, 2) .010 off-center, 3) .020 off-center... Then, in the trial-fitting process, try rotating the bushing for best alignment before locking into place.
I called your Craigslist buddy, he doesn't have anything at this time. He said to keep my eye on eBay, and to inquire on the Logan-specific Yahoo groups. I will do that as I proceed with my ideas.

  Greg



Chuck K said:


> Greg, I feel bad for mentioning that I did that to my lathe.  I just clamped them in my mill vise and bored them with a boring head.  How far oversize do you have the holes now?  Is there still enough meat left in them to be bored straight and bushed with a thicker bushing then you initially planned?  As a last resort you could braze it and build it back up.  Also, there is a guy that always lists logan parts on chicago cl.  I've bought from him before.  He buys whole lathes and parts them out.  It might be worth giving him a call and see if he has a handle. Heres one of his posts with his phone #.
> 
> http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/4160906606.html
> 
> Chuck


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - boring the shift arm - 3rd try*

As I said a few days ago, one tricky part is now trying to find the proper center. This should do:


First, I stuck a paper label over the off-centered .875" hole. This is on the thin side of the fork. I am going to assume the hole should be in the center of the casting's boss, so I used a center square to find the center. The center to center distance between the holes will be critical for proper gear mesh, so I struck an arc at 1 15/16" from the small hole. (The steel rule's 1" mark is at that center.)

The other tricky part is secure, square work-holding.  I don't have a good, big milling vise, which is why my first tries I fastened the work directly to the table. I spent an hour or two yesterday trying to use a cheap 6" drill press vise. But I stuck a 6" pin into the small hole as a guide to get the work properly vertical (which didn't happen the first time). Try as I might, I couldn't get it shimmed plumb.

So today, I tried my 3" sine vise.


In the y-axis,it was fine as is. But the guide pin (not shown in this photo) showed .030" of x-axis skew over a 3" distance. If you look carefully, you can see the sine table is slightly cracked open to get everything in alignment. 
I'm now in the middle of boring the thin side at the new, true(?) center, planning for about 1.1" diameter. Why this size? Because of the uncertainty in hole positioning, I plan to make some test sleeves with various offsets if needed. I was thinking of making the test sleeves from hardwood, but found something better: 1/2" double female PVC pipe couplers. They are 1.1" OD, .840 ID, and 1.875 long. I will bore them to .875 for my 3/4 ID bronze Oilite bushings, with varying degrees of eccentricity in the boring if needed. 
Once I find the proper offset, I'll make the final one from a scrap piece of 1.5" 10L14 steel rod.

That's the plan for this week's effort. 
     Greg


----------



## Chuck K

Sounds like you have a plan.  Are you planning on putting a bushing inside of the 10L14 or just running that and oiling it frequently?

Chuck


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - shift arm progress*

Yes Chuck, I still plan to insert Oilite bushings. Things are going well.
I bored the thick side of the shift arm fork, using the setup shown in my last posting. It seemed to go well.
Then I flipped it over, found the center by the similar method as before, and bored the thin side...


This too went well, so I now had 1.1" holes where I need a 3/4" hole. I made the temporary test collars out of 1/2" PVC pipe couplers, bored out to 7/8" for the Oilite bushings. The first set I bored on-center. I would make off-center ones as needed. But first a test fitting, checking for gear mesh and for alignment with the QCGB body casting's pin holes A-F.



Both the gear mesh and the pin-to-hole alignment were great. Just to be sure, I made a second set of PVC test collars, boring off-set by 0.010". I then retried the above checks, rotating the eccentric collars into multiple positions (i.e. 0, 90, 180, and 270 degree alignments.) It didn't seem to make much difference anywhere. So I decided to go with the zero-offset.
I was going to use an on-hand piece of 12L14 steel, but it would be a shame to "waste" so much of it. (Turning down from 1.5" to 1.1, then boring out to .875) - more swarf than part!
At the local scrap yard, I got a 3-foot piece of 1.25" POS (plain ol' steel). I've sliced off 1-inch and 1/2" pieces and will probably turn and bore them tomorrow.
Then, one final test fitting, disassemble again, paint, and final reassembly. 

    Greg


----------



## woodtickgreg

You persevered and overcame, well done, great save!


----------



## Chuck K

Glad to see it all worked out for you.  What fun would it be if everything was easy?

Chuck


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - QCGB reassembly - part 1*

I started overhaul of the quick change gear box (QCGB) about ten weeks ago. Finally, today, it's back together, looking nice and running good. You can go back and read the epic tale in the prior postings. Today I will show the reassembly of the repaired/replaced and cleaned up parts.
First, the table full of qcgb parts. In the center rear are the two old shafts that I made replacements for. But the old shafts will be useful for reassembly alignment tools.



Now that the shift arms are repaired with steel repair sleeves and Oilite bushings, put them back together. The spring-loaded pin and knob assembly must go first, before the big gear. (Guess how I know this.) Then press the gear pins back in. The stack of parallels will keep the gap from closing down. (Again, learned this the hard way too.)




First into the casting is the input shaft and its three gears. The red marks identify the keyslots and keys on the gears and shafts. This makes it a lot easier. Having the gear on the end gives a handle and leverage. But that gear will need to come of when replacing the gearbox and putting on the drive train.




In the next posting (in a few hours), I will finish the reassembly.

    Greg


----------



## stevecmo

Looking good Greg!  You're in the home stretch.


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - QCGB  final reassembly - part 2 of 2*

And continuing the reassembly, next comes the main shaft, the one with the dozen gears. Here's where you really need the red alignment marks. In the second picture, the old shaft is inserted from the left, as an alignment aid.





Now the slider shaft and the shift arms. They go on rather easily, but still, the alignment marks do help. And this time, I do have the gears in correctly, so that the two arms/gears are mirror images of each other. I tested each of the shift arm positions, turning the gears by hand. All turn okay, a bit stiff with the brand new bushings. Note: I did soak all the bushings overnight in oil before the reassembly. I don't know if they need it or if they are factory-impregnated. I don't know if it helped, but it couldn't have hurt.




The nameplate/threads and feeds table was cleaned up by re-doing  the red and black sections, then lightly scraping and sanding to clear  off the raised brass characters. 



Then, inserted the lead screw and reinstalled on the lathe... Hooked up the gear train, turned it over by hand, then with power. 
All works fine and sounds smooth! Ready for another 70 years? I am happy)



So what's next in the restoration?

Test/measure the headstock and tail-stock alignment (I never leveled/aligned the lathe when I moved it into my shop.) 
Overhaul the tail-stock. Hopefully, this is just a cleanup and repainting 
Fabricate a set of adjustable leveling legs, using the hockey puck idea suggested by Steve back in July 
Repaint some of the other easily removable panels, such as the gear cover and the belt cover. 

Then, probably in January, the big pieces. I suppose that my lathe will be out of service for a few months as I tackle the remainder.

Counter-shaft/motor/peg leg (clean, inspect, repaint, rewire?) 
Headstock and gear train (clean, inspect, repaint, make a back-gear knob latch mechanism) 
Bed (repaint) 
Chip tray and legs (repaint, add the leveler feet) 
Reassemble and level/align

 Hopefully I will not discover the need for the lathe to make repair parts when I have it totally broken down. If anything is going to need some parts, I'd suspect it would be in the counter-shaft area. I will check that out first with some "exploratory surgery"

    Happy Thanksgiving, Y'all,
            Greg


----------



## Redlineman

Excellent;

Drawing motivation...


----------



## Chuck K

Redlineman said:


> Excellent;
> 
> Drawing motivation...



Yep, I think I need another Logan project.  A friend of mine has been telling me about his old Logan that he dismantled and stored in the back of an old pick up truck that's now buried in a storage shed.  He's been telling me he's going to give me that lathe for about 3 years now.  Maybe it's time to motivate him to dig it out.  Greg, you're probably right about the countershaft.  It's probably worn where the bushings ride on the shaft.  It's one of those areas that always seemed to be neglected.  While you have the spindle out it would be a good time to install an endless belt also.  With that and all the other work you're doing to it, it should be a smooth running machine.

Chuck


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## Redlineman

Right on, Chuck;

See my thread for primary drive issues, as I'm right in the middle of refurbing that assembly. Just did new shaft and bushings. Yours will be slightly different, but the gist of it is the same. I am seeing that these were indeed often overlooked "way back there."


----------



## Chuck K

Yep, two things that I have always found to be true with the old Logans I've had.  One: The counter shaft will be worn from lack of lube.  Two:  You don't have to worry about spilling any dirty oil when you take the apron apart.  What's left of it can be scraped off the bottom of the case with a putty knife.  But I still love the machines.  With a little tlc they can do a lot of good work.

Chuck


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Tailstock restoration,  part 1 of 1*

Thanks for the encouragement, y'all

This time, the target was the tailstock (t/s). In retrospect, the t/s might have been a better starting place in the restoration process, due to its relative simplicity. However, it was fully functional and had at least been repainted (blue), so the worn and ugly apron/saddle and QCGB took precedence.
Two odd things about my t/s collection of parts: 

the parts catalog shows there to be two oiling points on the top, both have the same part number. Mine has the one at the right end, but the one on the left was not there, instead a small, solid steel knurled plug had been installed. Interestingly, the diameter of this plug is only .19", while the "Gits-type oiler" is about .29. Until I can get a replacement oiler, I may just leave the open hole as an oiling point, then I'll have to redrill for the proper size. 
The two lateral adjustment setscrews had apparently gotten lost and replaced by hex head bolts. I turned them into the proper setscrews, turning off the hex head, chamfering the contact point, and screwdriver slotting them. 
Refinishing: The bright blue paint was stripped and the parts were primed, then repainted using the gray body / red moving parts color scheme. The nuts, screws, and bolts were all blackened by heating then oil treatment. 
Here are all the pieces, ready for reassembly. In the center foreground are the "new" setscrews. Just to their right, the little black piece is that non-oiler plug mentioned above.


Reassembly was easy, here it is back on the ways.


Next step will be making the adjustable hockey puck legs. I will probably drill and tap the ends of the legs for 9/16" or 5/8" leveler bolts. This is so I can get the lathe level, then I can do an alignment check (Rollie's Dad's Method?) as a benchmark before I remove the headstock for overhaul.

   Greg


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration: Hockey Puck Leveiing Feet*

Back in July, when I first started this thread and mentioned the plan to get/make some leveling feet, Steve suggested hockey pucks as the basis [unavoidable pun] for them. Steve, thanks for the great idea. I did some searching, and used ideas from yours and some folks' implementations. Here's what I came up with:
View attachment 66031

Given that the mounting holes in the bottom of the legs are almost right, I selected 5/8" -11 UNC as my thread. I may need to ream them just a bit. Perhaps it would have been better to go for 5/8-18 UNF (stronger and more mechanical advantage), but the tap and die with the coarse thread were locally available for the new tap (and die) needed for the job. Every hardware store sells the 5/8-11 nuts and bolts, I would have had to go to the local screw store for the UNFs. 

I considered taking the legs to a welding shop and having nuts welded onto cast iron feet. Nah, I like doing things myself. That's why we're in this hobby, right?

Annotated Bill of Materials (for each foot)(1) used hockey puck (eBay)
(1) 5/8-11 x 4" bolt
(2) 5/8/11 nut (The second will be used as a lock nut.)
(1) 5/8" fender washer (1 5/8" OD)
(1) 3/16 x 1" roll pin (It pins the nut to the bolt, so I can use a wrench to adjust/jack the leg.)​
I made five units, but whether I put one on the pegleg is TBD. I know I don't really need it, but it may be a nice convenience. For example, I had wondered why my belt cover would not come all the way down and had thought it was the adjusting screw was not right. Messing with that setting didn't fix the gap between the lid and the headstock, I now see that the countershaft assembly has been too low and that I should have raised it on the pegleg. Because the back of my lathe is up against some shelves, access to the pegleg adjustment is very difficult, and adjusting it would be a two-man job. So, I do hope I can use the 5th puck to assist (and make it a one-man job.)

Besides providing the ability to precisely level the lathe on a non-level garage floor, these feet will raise lathe somewhere in the range of 1 5/8" to 3 3/4". I am 5'8", an extra two inches or so will bring the carriage handwheel and cross feed crank up to more comfortable heights. BTW, I made these feet concurrently with stripping and repainting the left side gear cover door, so that's now out of the way.

   Greg


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## stevecmo

Greg,

Sounds like you have a good plan.  I went with 1/2" bolts through the leg holes with a nut on each side.  Yours will be easier to make adjustments - always a good idea.

Steve


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Initial Alignment Check*

Prior to overhaul of the headstock, and total dissassembly of the bed, countershaft/motor assembly and the legs, I want to know how well it is currently aligned, and how level it is before I add the leveling legs.  BTW, in my last posting, about my leveler legs, for some reason, the picture did not get correctly inserted, so here it is. [I hope my pictures attach properly this time.]

Hockey Puck Leveler Feet



On Sunday, I first checked the countershaft and its bushings. I was suspecting them to be very worn, just as the apron and gearbox shafts have been. To my surprise, I was not able to feel any play in the countershaft. I'm guessing it has already been replaced sometime over the years. Maybe a closer look when I take it apart will change my mind, but for now, it's good to go.

When I first started my machining hobby, five years ago, I became aware of the "Rollie's Dad's Method of Lathe Alignment (RDM)." But I never used it on my first lathe, an Atlas 618. It turned out to be less complex than I'd thought it was. Using a shaft cannibalized from a junk printer as my test bar, I took the horizontal and vertical measurements at 1" from the chuck, and then again at the 7" point.

RDM Vertical and Horizontal Measurement Setups       



	

		
			
		

		
	
s

RDM Results
Vertical, over the 6" range, I measured a 0.0027" difference at the two stations, or 0.0054 per foot, the right side is low.
Horizontally, it was 0.0018 difference, 0.0036 per foot, skewed toward the back.
 Given that I never leveled the lathe, I suppose that is not too bad, is it? I wonder how much of the errors are due to bed twist rather than headstock alignment. See below....

Level Check
So how unlevel is the lathe currently, just sitting on my garage floor? Using a machinist's level, I checked across the ways next to the spindle, and at the tailstock end, about 3 feet away. Here were my setups. Note, the 2-foot carpenter's level is just used as a bridge over the saddle, not as a level.

Longitudinal and Cross-bed Level Checks



   Longitudinally, the tailstock end is about 0.288 lower, over that 2 foot span. Given that garage floors are supposed to slope toward the door at somewhere around 1/8" and 1/4" per foot, that is just about right. Across the ways, measuring across the vee's (a 5" span), at the chuck end, I got about 0.026" down slope, from front to back, 0.062" per foot. At the tailstock end, 0.018" down, front to back, or 0.043" per foot. 
  These measurements suggest there is 0.019 twist along the 3 foot bed. Unfortunately, it is is the wrong direction to be causing the RDM horizontal skew.

Again, this was my first effort at measuring alignment and levelness, as a benchmark before I breakdown the headstock. Have I made any significant mistakes that invalidate my analysis? Or that at least need to be resolved before I actually do the alignment.

   Greg


----------



## Chuck K

Greg, I don't remember what the Rollies Dads Method entails, but I've always thought the proof was in the pudding.  I start by leveling a machine across the ways ( I don't pay much attention to level from end to end) and then checking/adjusting the height of the tailstock.  With a bar set up between centers I take a few cuts and adjust the tailstock side to side until I get the least amount of taper as possible. On an older machine like yours, if I can stay under .001 taper over 8 - 12", I consider it good enough.  I guess at that point you could twist the bed one way or the other to try to eliminate the taper, but if you have wear in your ways and saddle it's not likely that your going to remove the taper in all areas of the bed. Everybody has their own preference for setting up and leveling their machine.  I think that the fact that you're doing it puts you ahead of a lot of lathe owners.

Chuck


----------



## joebiplane

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Apron Teardown*

You might want to consider Rusteolum "Burgundy" as an alternative to the red you show in your photos.     A bit more "antique Engine" looking. To my untrained eye


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Countershaft teardown*

It's been a while (6 weeks) since I wrote up my progress, but there has been nothing too remarkable. I've been stripping and repainting the big parts in the drive unit, and that is still ongoing. So far, I'm done with the countershaft bracket, drive box, floor stand, and motor bracket. 

Back in December I said, ".., I first checked the countershaft and its bushings. I was  suspecting them to be very worn, just as the apron and gearbox shafts  have been. To my surprise, I was not able to feel any play in the  countershaft. I'm guessing it has already been replaced sometime over  the years. Maybe a closer look when I take it apart will change my mind,  but for now, it's good to go.

Yeah, well now that I got the shaft and bearings torn down, it's not as pristine as it had seemed! Here's the LA-317 shaft. Or is it? It is a plain 3/4" shaft, about 11 5/8" long and has no flats for the five setscrews that bear against it. 
Can anyone tell me if the real Logan LA-317 part has any flats?


This 3/4"shaft runs in 4 bronze bushings, the worn spots on the shaft are worn between .004 and .013". And the bushings are worn at least .008 to .010". So while I didn't feel the play while everything was in place, on the workbench, the wear is easily felt. [I don't remember if I removed the motor belt when I was checking, maybe that would have been revealing.

I will make a shaft and mill the flats for setscrews, and get some new bushings. 

My motor is an Atlas Press Co, Super Power 3/4 hp motor. I will replace the wiring from the motor to the switch and from the switch to the plug. Besides exterior cleanup and oiling the (ball) bearings, is there anything else that should be done? Or that shouldn't be done? I don't see any brushes. Are there any or are they hidden?

Back to work,
   Greg


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## Redlineman

Hey;

Yours is not worn bad at all. Check out my rebuild thread for some real wear! I used a regular piece of high precision ground drill rod and oilites from McMaster Carr. No flats originally and I didn't add any to mine. Don't know nuthin from electrics.


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Reply to Redlineman on Countershafts, Rubber Bushings*

Redlineman,

*Countershaft*
Looking at the picture in your "Redlineman's Logan 200 Rescue thread", I see you were not kidding about the shaft being badly worn. It also looks like your pulley was slipping, and the setscrews scarred all the way around the shaft. It doesn't look like mine was slipping, but as I said, I plan to put some flats for the setscrews.  I already have some 3/4" rod on hand (both drill rod and plain) so while I have it apart, I'm going to replace the shaft and bushings. 

*Rubber Bushings?*
You have recently been talking about the rubber bushings. and I've been thinking, what rubber bushings? I haven't seen any. But now, looking at the parts catalog, I do see where the LA-658 bushings are supposed to be, in the connection 'tween the drive box and the headstock. Somebody has modified mine. I have a steel rod with a 5/16" hole that connects the two LA-657 hinge brackets. One long 5/16" pin is used to make the connection, rather than the two LA-372 pins. I'll get some pictures...

Greg


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Non-standard bracket on headstock*

As I mentioned in my last posting, my Logan 820 does not have any bushings in the bracket that connects the drive box to the headstock. Sometime in the past 70 years, someone substituted a 6" piece of aluminum rod with a 3/8" through-hole as shown here:


And instead of short pins on each side, to connect the drive box; my machine has a long steel rod (10.5 x 3/8") that runs all the way through.

Other than as an expedient repair, does anyone have an idea why this may have been done. It seems to work fine. For now, I plan to leave it this way until I make or get some bushings. I wonder how much difference it would make, vibration-wise? You may remember I've made hockey puck leveling feet, hopefully they will provide some dampening too. And I think have one puck left over. Once the lathe is operational again, I could machine bushings from that, as Redlineman discusses in his thread.

Greg


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## Redlineman

Holy Schmoley;

That really had me thrown for a loop. It just looks so impossibly massive. Then I noticed the essential difference. The 820 obviously must have had a much larger OD bushing of whatever sort. You can see the 820 bracket curves out for a much larger bushing hole where the 200 bracket (which uses a .375 pin) below comes straight off the headstock. Somebody either lost, broke, or wore out your original hardware, or must not have been impressed with it. It is kind of odd having that whole big heavy assembly standing on a peg, hanging off the back from a couple of little pins. One of my bushings is blown apart, so the thing really flops around.


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration : Drive Unit Overhaul*

For the past few months, I've been overhauling the drive unit. As I said back in February, there was a little bit of wear on the countershaft and its bushings in the drive box. I made a new shaft and got new bronze bushings. 
Here is the drive box, after repainting, with the new shaft/bushings.


Most of time has been spent removing old paint and repainting each of the pieces, and the drive unit has several large pieces. Not having a lot of extra room in my garage/shop/paint shop, it has been one or two pieces at a time, laid on cardboard, under where I park my car. So it's spray some paint, park the car for the night, next day or so, turn the piece over and repeat for primer and top coats.
The motor is an Atlas Press Company 3/4 hp "Super Power" that was dirty but in good shape. I took it apart for a good cleaning, not entirely disassembled but took off the end bells and the rotor. There was some swarf and other crud inside, but obviously not where it could short out anything -- that's why I took it apart rather than just blow it out with the air hose. Shaft and bearings were fine. I replaced the cord and plug too.
Because I am adding hockey puck leveling feet to the lathe, I also needed to add one to the drive unit's "pegleg". I discovered that the pegleg is non-standard, it's just a piece of pipe I needed to adapt it for the 5/8" thread leveler bolt.Here is the detail on that. The first image below shows a cast iron pipe fitting with 6 milled grooves that allowed a 5/8" bolt to be very tightly pressed in. Then (see 2nd image) the cast iron piece is pressed into the leg and secured with a pair of set screws. The actual hockey puck foot is there waiting for assembly. 




Putting the drive unit back together was an exercise in wrestling awkward heavy pieces.
Step one: Floor stand and motor mount


Step 2: Mount the motor. Note: I should have taken measurements of exactly how the motor sat in its alignment slots. I had to mess around getting the motor pulley properly aligned with the pulley on the countershaft.


Some time later, it's done (except for the lid), here's the right side view.


And the left side. I guess it was the camera flash that makes this look different, but it is the same gray as in the other images. As I've said, my shop is in the garage/laundry room running along half a wall. The mill and lathe are under their covers and the workbench is out of sight immediately to the right of the hockey puck foot.


Now I will put the assembled drive unit aside and start on the next major subassembly. That will be the headstock. While the headstock is off,  I will repaint the bed, tray, and legs. Then put it all back together, aligned it, and I will be done.

Note: I have already removed the headstock and disassembled it. I will post on that within a day or so. It was interesting.

   Greg


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## Redlineman

Great work, G;

Your drive unit looks similar if not identical to the 200, which I guess makes sense since I've always thought they were the same, save for the QCGB. Yours is also a very early model (like mine) with the "floating" countershaft bushing holders. They are pretty touchy for adjustment, eh? I did my assembly in a bit different order, adding the drive components to the completed and mounted stand, but ended up wrestling with it anyway when I redid the mount bushings. It is pretty cumbersome, no doubt. I used hockey skate laces to tie it up to the rafters so I was sure it did not tip over whilst I was haggling with the mounts. It took a TON of fiddling and screwing around to get the whole thing lined up, especially when the lid was introduced. Be prepared to be quite patient and resolute!

Looking good!


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration: Starting on the Headstock Overhaul*

Sorry for the delay in posting this next episode. Anyhow, I started on the headstock. I realized this is perhaps the most critical phase of the whole overhaul. Expensive bearings, unknown issues with disassembly, reassembly, and realignment. I was not particularly looking forward to this, but thus far, I have completely disassembled everything down to the basic pieces. I intend to do so here, perhaps tempered by the  "if it works, don't mess with it" rule to be applied where prudent. 
In this and other forums, I researched others' experiences and comments on their Logan headstock/spindle/backgear work. Several good ideas and just as much contradictory information. Note: my 820 is S/N 24157, so the earlier diagrams in the the parts manual should show what I'm working with.  There has been much chatter recently about the Belleville washers on the spindle. Rightly or wrongly, my machine is Belleville-less. And at least to my perception, the bearings seem in good shape. I could not feel any roughness or play in the spindle. (That was the status quo.)
Here are photos before the disassembly work with bottom, rear, right, front and left views.






Once I had the headstock on the workbench, the fun would start. But first... 


Is this seventy years worth of dirt on the ways under the headstock? Probably not 70, but it's been a while,  hasn't it? I bought this lathe a year ago from another home machinist who only owned it for a relatively short time. I wonder what the full history on it is?

One problem I'd known all along was that the backgear actuator shaft would not stay locked out. I expected that I would have to fabricate a replacement latch/spring mechanism. But after pulling out the actuator rack, I found the latch was there, just gummed up. Pushed out the pin and cleaned it all up and rebuilt. That was easy! But I couldn't figure how to remove the backgears themselves.

So on to the spindle. Trying to protect the bearings, I first rigged a home-made spindle puller, but it didn't work. Plan B: using a soft faced hammer and a wooden block, I tapped the spindle loose, driving out the right bearing with it. Then I turned down a piece of wooden 4x4 to fit the outer diameter of the left bearing and tapped it out. Now that the bearings and shafts were isolated, the right bearing still felt fine. But the left one was rough. I think the removal process totally ruined it. If not the original bearing, it appeared to be a Logan factory replacement. It was marked "New Departure 32707 Shield Bearing Number 77507" in the Logan Parts Catalog, it is called LA-670 Ball Bearing 77507. Amazon.com had the exact bearing, a New Departure 77507 for $13.51.
Here are: removing the gear from the left end, spingle left side, and spindle right side during the teardown. As I said up top, no Belleville washer here. (And none shown in the Parts Catalog).




Now the only things left in the headstock were the backgear shaft, gears, and quill. Here, the dis-assembly puzzled me. I tried tapping the bushings (LA-127 and -128) from one end and from the other end without much progress. (Yes, the two setscrews were loosed.) But that's not how it comes apart. Finally, prolonged study of the parts diagram showed that I needed to tap against the exposed left end of the LA-125 eccentric shaft to get it out. This, with more PB Blaster, worked fine. I was pleasantly surprised that the bushing and shafts were not appreciably worn.



While waiting for the replacement bearing, I cleaned up the headstock casting and the related pieces in preparation for repainting. Now that our three days of Santa Ana winds are gone, I will get it painted and begin the reassembly. And while the various coats of paint are drying, I will cut that screwdriver slot into the end of the backgear eccentric shaft as has been discussed in other recent Logan overhaul threads.
   Greg


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## Redlineman

'Bout time you got busy! :whistle:

If you are speaking of the tail (drive end) bearing, then yes I believe they are generic and "unloaded," and should be widely available. The head bearing is a special preloaded version, and to my knowledge can only be purchased through Logan. I am not aware that there are any special markings on any of these that designate them as preloaded, which makes it hard. 

Mr. Ed's current spindle thread has some good info available. As I state there, despite all the chatter about Belleville washers, and their appearance in the later LA-108-2 schematic, I've never actually seen or heard of one! They are not shown in the earlier LA-108-1 schematic.


----------



## Mister Ed

I noticed something on Greg's lathe (and I'm sure it must be all 800 series) ... the front bearing retainer/cap on his actually has 4 screws holding it in place. The 200s only have 3 screws. 

I can't help but wonder why they would have designed two different setups like that, on the same size lathe. :thinking: I had always thought the only diff between the 800 and 200 was gearbox & saddle related.

These kind of questions (much like the bearing and other subjects you guys have seen me carry on about) drive me nuts.anic:

Ed

- - - Updated - - -

Dang ... look at the positing of the oil hole/screw in Greg's cone pulleys. It is on the large pulley, not the middle one. That seems odd, given the location of the bronze bearings at each end of the cone.:whiteflag:


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration: Spindle Reassembly*

Time to reassemble the spindle.  

Attn: Mister Ed - you commented on my last posting about oil holes. The hole visible in the large pulley is not the oil hole, it's for the bull gear plunger. The small pulley has two tapped holes, one marked for the "oil" setscrew, and another unmarked one. This is as shown on the parts diagram on the LA-27-1 Headstock Assembly to S/N 32777 parts diagram. 
But I have questions about that unmarked one:What is its purpose and is it supposed to be tight against the spindle or not? Mine was not tight, and I saw no scarring on the spindle to indicate anything had been tightened in the area. When the back gear is engaged, this pulley needs to spin on the spindle, so setscrewing tight would seem to be dead wrong.​What is the correct type and size of set screw?  The diagram makes it look like a dog point, but my machine had a plain setscrew. If indeed, it does not need to go tight, then that is fine. Would a dog point make any difference?​
Yesterday I reassembled the spindle into the headstock. Remember, this is an early serial number model 820, there are differences in the later S/N's and as I understand from other's postings, the Logan 200 is quite similar, but with some obvious differences. Your mileage will vary!

First image shows the parts ready to go together: headstock, spindle with woodruff key and main bearing, bull gear, cone pulley, and spacer. In the back is the replacement bearing for the left side, and a custom bearing driver for it, made from a chunk of 4x4.


This went together much easier than it came apart! As they say, for reassembly, simply reverse the procedure! Inserted the spindle from the right, sliding the bull gear, cone pulley and spacer onto the shaft. I drove the bearing into the headstock using a PVC pipe coupler (3.5" OD) to bear against the bearing's retaining ring. In the next two pictures, first, you see the bearing in the headstock, with the retaining ring now up against the casting. The second shows the end cap in place, with its 4 fillister head screws. Again, this had been commented upon in a recent posting. My lathe certainly has 4 holes and 4 screws. But according to the parts manual for my serial number, it should only have 3. 



Next steps: slide the bull gear to the right onto its woodruff key. This was easy, using the cone pulley like a slide hammer to tap it into place. (I wish I had measured the exact distance between the bull gear and the casting; I think I have it right, we shall see when I put the back gears back in.) 
Then tighten the bull gear's setscrew and insert the two setscrews into the small cone pulley -- yeah, the oil screw and the mystery screw (left loose) discussed above. 
Before starting this restoration, I've had a problem with seeing oil on the pulley almost every time I open the cover to change belt positions. Apparently it is being flung back through the setscrew threads by centrifugal forces while running. Oil and leather belting is not a good combination. I will try a new setscrew. Does anybody have ideas on this? Maybe a bit Teflon pipe tape or silicon caulk on the threads?
Now the left side bearing and related parts. I had damaged the left bearing during the teardown. now with my custom wooden bearing driver, which will bear against both the inner and outer races, I should be able to safely install the replacement. First, insert a bearing cover, then the bearing, tapping with the wooden tool, then the outer bearing cover. It worked perfectly.




And the final steps: another spacer, the woodruff key and gear, and the retaining collar.


About that collar, as the photo shows, one needs a special spanner to properly loosen/tighten it. I couldn't find one, so resorted to hammer/punch and pipe wrench. This somewhat scarred collar will work for now, but once the lathe is operational again, I plan to make a replacement (unless I can find one easily. Maybe I'll make that spanner too, or machine flats for wrench.

Next task, install the back gear. I have already slotted the end of the backgears' eccentric shaft to facilitate the adjustment of the gear mesh.

   Greg


----------



## cadusis

Greg or anyone who knows
I just started putting my logan 820 lathe together, I assembled and reassemble the quick change gear box at least 4 times before I think I got it right and finally got it back on the Lathe was in the prosses of greasing the gears and the reverse tumbler bracket handle broke off . I found one on ebay and it's on its way . I am thinking do just taking the pin out of the new one and replacing the handle only . dose that sound like a wise path to take, or should I replace the whole thing. I have not powered the lathe up yet but when I Engage the quick chance box it seams like the gears are a little off . there is some play in the gears will the set in . also I examined you photo the gear box I have is slightly different where I have a bushing you have ( I do not know the term for this) gear-bushing  :think1::think1:
thanks 
john


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## gjmontll

Cadusis: 
   I have not yet tackled the reversing lever assembly, but I just took a quick look at the parts diagram, it looks like the bracket handle is all part of the assembly. After I get the back gear back into the headstock, I will disassemble/clean/reassemble the reversing assembly. Maybe in two days I can better answer your question on this.
   On the QCGB, there are no adjustments. A bit of backlash is normal. As you probably read my QCGB adventures last fall, earlier in this thread. Really badly worn bushings and shafts might be causing excessive play, I made two new shafts and replaced several bushings.

Good luck,
    Greg




cadusis said:


> Greg or anyone who knows
> I just started putting my logan 820 lathe together, I assembled and reassemble the quick change gear box at least 4 times before I think I got it right and finally got it back on the Lathe was in the prosses of greasing the gears and the reverse tumbler bracket handle broke off . I found one on ebay and it's on its way . I am thinking do just taking the pin out of the new one and replacing the handle only . dose that sound like a wise path to take, or should I replace the whole thing. I have not powered the lathe up yet but when I Engage the quick chance box it seams like the gears are a little off . there is some play in the gears will the set in . also I examined you photo the gear box I have is slightly different where I have a bushing you have ( I do not know the term for this) gear-bushing  :think1::think1:
> thanks
> john


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## CNCMAN

Very informative. Those Logans are nice lathes.


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## GarageGuy

Did you forget to put the automotive serpentine belt on the cone pulley while the head shaft was out?  I did!  Then I took it apart and put the belt on, and it was the wrong length, so I took it all apart a third time.  Finally got it right, and I like it.  Enjoying your re-build photos.  I have a Logan 820 as well.  I didn't re-build everything (yet), but have done the QCGB, head shaft, and tail stock.  My back gear shaft seemed smooth and didn't have any noticeable bushing play, so I left it alone.  Someday I will rebuild the apron.  I didn't do the nice paint job you did.  Mine is still vintage 1945 blue gray.

Yours is looking great, and will be making chips soon!

GG


----------



## Mister Ed

gjmontll said:


> Time to reassemble the spindle.
> 
> Attn: Mister Ed - you commented on my last posting about oil holes. The hole visible in the large pulley is not the oil hole, it's for the bull gear plunger. The small pulley has two tapped holes, one marked for the "oil" setscrew, and another unmarked one. This is as shown on the parts diagram on the LA-27-1 Headstock Assembly to S/N 32777 parts diagram.
> But I have questions about that unmarked one:What is its purpose and is it supposed to be tight against the spindle or not? Mine was not tight, and I saw no scarring on the spindle to indicate anything had been tightened in the area. When the back gear is engaged, this pulley needs to spin on the spindle, so setscrewing tight would seem to be dead wrong.​What is the correct type and size of set screw?  The diagram makes it look like a dog point, but my machine had a plain setscrew. If indeed, it does not need to go tight, then that is fine. Would a dog point make any difference?​



Ah, missed this post. I don't have that hole in the large cone, interesting.
I remember scratching my head on that set screw as well. Then I finally realized it is supposed to hold in the cone pinion gear on the end of the cone (part 119-1 on mine). The screw goes onto the collar on that gear, not all the way to the spindle shaft.


cadusis said:


> .... and the reverse tumbler bracket handle broke off . I found one on ebay and it's on its way . I am thinking do just taking the pin out of the new one and replacing the handle only . dose that sound like a wise path to take, or should I replace the whole thing. john


Ah, you broke the lever handle as well. I would think either way you want, would suffice.


GarageGuy said:


> Did you forget to put the automotive serpentine belt on the cone pulley while the head shaft was out?  I did!  Then I took it apart and put the belt on, and it was the wrong length, so I took it all apart a third time.  Finally got it right, and I like it.
> GG


X's 2 ... and I have a 39" and a 41" belt if anyone needs a longer or shorter one. LMAO.​


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## Redlineman

Hmmm...

There's nothing wrong with assembling the spindle without the belt on it the first time. It takes a few tries to get everything lined up and working properly anyway, so the trial run is good for understanding how it all needs to be. That's what I told myself...
-
-
-
-
-
Actually, I did put mine together even before I had the belt, just for kicks and to see how it worked. Even after doing it all a few times, it still needed a lot of fiddling to get everything lined up and locked down in the right place. Patience is a virtue... because memory will be useless!


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## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration : Spindle and Belt*

While reassembling the spindle, I did not forget to put the drive belt in place. For now, it is a non-issue, since I have a new leather belt from Logan, with the link/pin that allows it to be hooked around the in-place spindle and drive shaft. I'm afraid that if I was using a "normal" belt, I'd very likely have forgotten to put the belt in first. Don't ask me about the X cable on the torpedo tube.

BTW, for the week, I've been working full time on installing tile in a bathroom. Tomorrow I'll get back on the lathe job.  This evening, look for a new posting, "A new use for machinists' parallels - floor tile gauges"

  Greg


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Headstock Reassembly Completion - Backgear*

Okay guys, I'm back on the lathe job - after spending a week and a half tiling a bathroom. (First time I've done tiling! Two bathrooms left to go...)

To finish the headstock overhaul, all that remained was to put the backgears back in. But first, it occurred to me that it would be useful to better lubricate the backgear shaft and bushings. My first lathe was an Atlas 618 and it had a oiling port in its shaft, a screw that you'd remove to add oil. I added something similar to the Logan 820, as shown in this bottom view of the reassembled  headstock. It's the screw just to the left of the larger back gear, the screw has an o-ring under its head.


Another enhancement, shown here, is the slot I cut into the end of the backgear eccentric shaft. I thank Redlineman for his write-up on this, in his Logan 200 saga. (Looking back, I see he also did the backgear oiler mod.) This slot lets you fairly easily adjust the actuator rack and gear to get proper backgear engagement. 


Here are the other views of the reassembled headstock. Because I am using the stock leather belt with its pinned joint that can be unhooked/rehooked, the belt is not captive on the spindle.







Next, I'm tackling the reverse gear assembly
Here, for reference purposes are the before pictures from both the right and left sides



I disassembled it. All bushings and shafts are good. I knew there was an oiling hole in the bracket, but I hadn't appreciated that it lubricates the steel shaft-in-steel "bushing". I was lucky this was not badly worn, since the hole was rather clogged with dirt. 
Here is the reverse gear assembly all disassembled and cleaned.


 Now, I'm in the process of repainting the assembly's  bracket and "plunger handle" and will reassemble it in a day or two.

       Greg


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Headstock - Reverse Gear Assembly*

My last message showed the reverse gear assembly before and after dis-assembly. Now I've cleaned it up, repainted it, and reassembled it; ready to reattach to the headstock. I should have used my arbor press on the pinion gears/spacer/stud disassembly. It worked great to put it back together.


You can't see it in this image, but the idler studs should have a 5/16"-18 heavy hex nut. (Look in my last posting and you'll see one of the studs has two thin square nuts rather than the proper fastener.) I'll try to find one locally.

Next phase in the restoration: repaint the bed, tray, and legs. 

    Greg


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## Redlineman

Looking good, G;

You'll love that backshaft slot mod. Makes adjusting the lash SOOO much easier. I didn't get as fancy with an o-ring under my oil screw, but that does sound like a really good idea. The screw in my cone pulley leaks, so I am going to ultimately put some silicone on it and reinstall to hopefully seal the threads.

Maybe I'll get back to mine.. some day.


----------



## GarageGuy

You're lucky.  I was testing out my 820 after I bought it, and it seemed like it had a heavy load on it while just running.  Then I saw a wisp of smoke from the reverse gear handle.  Uh-oh...  The oil hole on my reverse gear handle was plugged solid, and the shaft and handle were bone dry and had eaten each other.

I turned down the shaft, and bored out the handle.  Then I made a bearing bronze bushing to fit in between.  It works great, and is smooth and solid.  Now that the oil hole works it lubricates fine.

GG


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## mjhenks

Looking good.


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Final Disassembly Steps*

Now I am disassembling the final few pieces for cleanup and repainting.

Here, for reassembly reference purposes, is the change gear assembly. The gears go into the longer slot, facing upwards.


Removing the rack from the bed was difficult. The six fillister head screws (#10-32 x 9/16") wouldn't budge. Repeated squirts of PB Blaster from above and below did the job in a few hours. I was just about to drill out the final screw but it finally surrendered. Several screw heads suffered wounds during this struggle. I tried to find replacements locally, no luck yet. I may have to make my own after the lathe is running again. 

Likewise, a few weeks ago, I was looking for the proper 5/16" heavy hex nut", nothing locally available so I will make one out of a hex head bolt with a large enough head and mill it down.

Now I need to clean, strip and repaint the bed...


This leaves the two bed supports bolted through the chip tray, to the legs. Reminder to self: the chip tray holes are not centered, there are right and wrong ways to put this back together! The rear holes are closer to the rear than the front ones are to the front, as shown in this picture, taken from the left (headstock) end.


Working on these final, big pieces is going to be difficult, particularly preparing them for painting, I don't have enough bench space to work on tray, bed, or legs;  I will set up a pair of sawhorses so that I don't have to sit on the garage floor. 

The floor is my paint shop. I back out the car(s), put cardboard down, paint a part or two, park my car to straddle the parts and let them dry, back the car(s) out, flip parts as needed, apply next coat, ...  A tedious workflow!

   Greg


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## wa5cab

If you use a sealer on the oil plug (the lowest torque rated Locktite might be a better choice than silicone sealer), do NOT squirt any down the hole.  Just apply a little to the screw, and none near the bottom end.  If you get any of it in front of the screw, you probably will not like the consequences.  

Robert D.



Redlineman said:


> Looking good, G;
> 
> You'll love that backshaft slot mod. Makes adjusting the lash SOOO much easier. I didn't get as fancy with an o-ring under my oil screw, but that does sound like a really good idea. The screw in my cone pulley leaks, so I am going to ultimately put some silicone on it and reinstall to hopefully seal the threads.
> 
> Maybe I'll get back to mine.. some day.


----------



## hvontres

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Final Disassembly Steps*



gjmontll said:


> ...
> Removing the rack from the bed was difficult. The six fillister head screws (#10-32 x 9/16") wouldn't budge. Repeated squirts of PB Blaster from above and below did the job in a few hours. I was just about to drill out the final screw but it finally surrendered. Several screw heads suffered wounds during this struggle. I tried to find replacements locally, no luck yet. I may have to make my own after the lathe is running again.
> ...
> Greg



I wound up using some 10x32 socket head cap screws to replace the filister heads when I re-attached the rack on my clausing. The fit in the counterbore is snug, but not too tight. I actually neede to helicoil the rack, since only 1 of the four tapped holes had any sort of recognizable threads left


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## gjmontll

Henry, thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.
 I had assumed SHCSs would be too tall, but according to Machinery's Handbook, they should fit. They have the same maximum head diameter (0.313") and have a 0.015" lower max. head height than the fillister heads. ]
Fortunately, the threads in my rack are all still okay.

  Greg



hvontres said:


> I wound up using some 10x32 socket head cap screws to replace the filister heads when I re-attached the rack on my clausing. The fit in the counterbore is snug, but not too tight. I actually neede to helicoil the rack, since only 1 of the four tapped holes had any sort of recognizable threads left


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## Redlineman

Keep hacking, Greg;

If you are making progress, it is all good!


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## Jon In Tucson

Great write up.  I really appreciate your attention to detail as well as the photo log.  I have a Logan 1957 that is begging for a little TLC.  Totally understand the constraints of time/space/and cash...  God bless.
Jon In Tucson


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## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Follow up on the Fillister and Socket Head Cap Screws*

So I got some 10x32 SHCS. Turns out their heads are too tall (by 0.085") for the counterbores in the lathe bed, so they don't fit flush. Were they out-of-spec? No, the heads are good (0.189" tall). The problem is with the so-called Fillister head screws that were in my lathe. Proper fillister heads have a curved top -- I don't know what the original Logan-provided screws were, but the heads on mine had been filed or ground down so the heads would fit flush with the ways. This leaves only .025 of screwdriver slot depth, no wonder they got mangled in my struggles to remove them. (Should be at least .064".)

*Fellow Logan owners: do the rack-mounting screws fit flush in your lathe's bed?* Are they real, standard FHCSs or have they been modified similiar to mine. Here are my "FHCS" and a standard SHCS posing against the Handbook's specs for FHCS.



Maybe I will just deepen the slots and reinstall the FHCS, at least until I get the lathe back together. Then I can either make new pseudo-fillisters or trim the underside of the SHCS heads so they can go in flush, if needed. Yeah, one screw is hidden under the headstock. I don't plan to remove the headstock again just to change it!

Progress report on the bed, tray and legs restoration
The legs have been tapped for the hockey puck feet, the old paint removed, and primer coats applied. Likewise for the bed feet. Paint also removed from the bed and the chip tray. For the tray, I used an aluminum oxide disk on an angle grinder and it now looks so nice and bright that I'm tempted to leave it bare metal. But I will paint it; and I'm sure it will quickly return to a dirty, stained, and chipped-paint state.

I hope to finish the priming this weekend and do the finishing coats this week. According to my logbook, tomorrow (20 July) will be the one-year mark on this restoration.



from 05July14 





gjmontll said:


> Henry, thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.
> I had assumed SHCSs would be too tall, but according to Machinery's Handbook, they should fit. They have the same maximum head diameter (0.313") and have a 0.015" lower max. head height than the fillister heads. ]
> Fortunately, the threads in my rack are all still okay.
> 
> Greg



from 05July14 Originally Posted by *hvontres* 
_I wound up using some 10x32 socket head cap screws to replace the filister heads when I re-attached the rack on my clausing. The fit in the counterbore is snug, but not too tight. I actually neede to helicoil the rack, since only 1 of the four tapped holes had any sort of recognizable threads left _

_from 04July14 Originally Posted by *gjmontll* _
_..._
_Removing the rack from the bed was difficult. The six fillister head screws (#10-32 x 9/16") wouldn't budge. Repeated squirts of PB Blaster from above and below did the job in a few hours. I was just about to drill out the final screw but it finally surrendered. Several screw heads suffered wounds during this struggle. I tried to find replacements locally, no luck yet. I may have to make my own after the lathe is running again. _
_..._
_Greg_


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## Redlineman

Hey Greg;

I have no way of knowing but no reason to suspect that my rack screws are anything but original. They are flat head slotted screws and the head is about .123 thick. They are just a tick below the bed surface. I cleaned them up a bit because they were naturally a little bunged up. I flatted the heads back down and squared up the slots and reused them. I can add a closeup pic if you like.


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## gjmontll

Redlineman

Thanks for the info, my screws measured similar to your, so I will assume they are also original. I too will clean them up and that should be good for another 70 years.

   Greg



Redlineman said:


> Hey Greg;
> 
> I have no way of knowing but no reason to suspect that my rack screws are anything but original. They are flat head slotted screws and the head is about .123 thick. They are just a tick below the bed surface. I cleaned them up a bit because they were naturally a little bunged up. I flatted the heads back down and squared up the slots and reused them. I can add a closeup pic if you like.


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Almost ready for reassembly*

Yesterday I primer painted the last two parts, the bed and the chip tray, and got one side top coated.


This morning I finished the painting (using Rustoleum's Dark Machine Gray.) I will let it set up over the weekend and next week round up the pieces and sub-assemblies and put it all back together.

A few weeks ago, I mentioned how the Reverse Gear Lever assembly was supposed to have two 5/16-18 heavy hex nuts" (fatter and taller than normal hex nuts), but one had been replaced by a pair of cheap/incorrect, square nuts. I couldn't find any heavy hex nuts locally. So I made one from a 1/2"hex head bolt.


The photo shows the assembly with the old and new heavy hex nuts in place, the incorrect square nuts below, and a bolt such as was used to make the nut.   I used a 1/2" All-Thread coupler as an indexing fixture to hold the bolt while I milled the head down from 3/4" to ~9/16" across the flats. If you are looking for high precision doing this, note that my coupler's hole was about 0.010"off center. This caused some error on my first cuts, until I realized that I needed to readjust the mill's Z-axis on a face-by-face basis. Interestingly, the original heavy nut was oversize, according to Machinery's Handbook: 8-thou too tall and 40-thou too wide. You can sort of see that in the picture.

    Greg


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## Redlineman

Details & Minutia;

I tried to make all of the the fasteners that show original on mine. I'd pick and choose to find those good originals for exposed use, and used generic modern stuff for that which was buried and out of sight. Many would scratch their heads and chuckle at the level of detail shown here, but since it is about *The Journey* for many of us, I applaud it!!

To that end, here is a pic of the rack screws that G was interested in. This one is representative of what mine look like AFTER truing them up a bit. Not perfect by any stretch, but correct and still useful nonetheless, and they look just fine installed.


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Reassembly First Steps*

Painting is now completed. Thanks for the picture, Redlineman, I've cleaned up my rack mounting bolts in a similar manner. Now to put everything back together...
First, fasten the rack to the bed, and attach the bed feet.



Then, put the chip tray in place and bolt the legs on. Doing this with the bed upside down and without the headstock was so much easier than when I bought the lathe 16 months ago.  And the hockey puck levelling feet were screwed into the legs. For details on these puck feet, see my entries in this thread from back on 15 and 17 December 2013.



Flip it over, and I'm done for today.


Tomorrow, I'll first put the headstock back  on, do some levelling, and wrestle the drive unit into position and get it connected, I am using the leather belt with the loops and pin.

     Greg


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## Redlineman

Ha!

I built mine from the ground up, instead of down to it. Whatever gets it done well is the best way! The drive unit is a trick. It is an awfully unwieldy beast when completely assembled. Ideally - while working alone, as I did - you would build it in pieces, I think. However, to do that you need space around it to work, and then be able to move it into place afterwards. If that place is out on an open machine floor, the task is simple. If it is against a garage or basement wall, like most of us, that aint easy! Given the inherent lack of overall mass, the peg leg is a brilliantly simple means of attaching the drive while minimizing its negative impacts on turning material, but it sure makes it hard to maneuver!

Looks great, by the way!


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Reassembly: progress and a problem*




A week ago, the first part of the reassembly went smoothly. Installed the QCGB and lead screw, apron and saddle, and tool post. Roughly positioned the headstock in preparation for alignment. Then I wrestled the drive unit into place and pinned it to the headstock. The belt is not yet on, nor are the top and side covers. Nor is the gear train.

Similar to the alignment tests I did before the reassembly, I began using the "Rollie's Dad's Method" (RDM) using a guide rod (~3/8"diam) out of a printer, as is commonly suggested. Note: back in December, before the teardown, RDM told me the spindle axis was skewed 0.0037/foot rearward, and 0.0054/foot downward. 

First I leveled the ways in both X and Y, then took the RDM measurements. There's significant horizontal play available in the headstock's position; a bit of trial and error postioning/tightening and I got to about 10 thous (0.0100/ft) before switching to check the vertical axis. The vertical seems to be 19.0 low (From here on, I'll omit the thousandths/ft in my numbers.) I spent the rest of the afternoon messing with shims, getting closer, but not close enough. 

A bit more reading on RDM. It appears to be controversial, and is not the professional way. Once I get the machine powered up, I will cut a test rod, but for now, it seems adequate. Except that it does not account for any possible sag in the test rod.

So, yesterday, I switched from that printer shaft to a piece of 5/8" drill rod. It still showed that the axis was low. I added a bit more shim and saw -0.6 (low). Rechecking the horizontal: initially -2 (rear skew). I couldn't get this out by skewing the headstock any further. But it was very responsive to the adjustable levelling legs I had added. Raise the front right leg about half a turn put enough twist in the bed to end up with -0.3 horizontal and -0.2 vertical. Enough alignment for now, I plan to recheck once it's running. (And as you'll read below, I am going to have to move the headstock!)

Back to the reassembly, I reinstalled the Reverse Gear Assembly and the Change Gear Assembly, setting the gear lash with ordinary paper strips. But now I have a problem. I can't get the "Stop Bracket" (LA-510) to properly position. If I position it to allow the proper gear mesh, then I can't close the side cover. Here is a picture of my problem, and pictures from before the disassembly. I've had this bracket on and off before and I don't see what I'm doing wrong.  *Any of you Logan guys have the answer?
*


Here are the reference shots. In this case, they haven't helped! Now, the slot in the bracket doesn't go down far enough to let the bracket go nearly vertical to clear the hinge bracket.



And another question for Team Logan: Is the left end of your headstock flush with the end of the bed, or not? Is it offset a bit? Which way and how much? Now that I have it bolted down and reasonably aligned but offset about 1/16" to the right, as a consequence I see my spindle gear doesn't fully engage the width of the drive gear. And belatedly, I look back in my disassembly notes from 25 March and see that before removal, it was offset to the left by 0.108. Maybe this is also the cause of my bracket problem? I'll play with it this afternoon.

    Greg


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## Redlineman

Hmmm.

I wondered about the offset of the headstock as well. I have not gotten to the drive end of things yet, let alone any squaring, so I'll likely be in for all of that fiddling myself. that squaring process is a bit murky to me, I must admit. Your efforts will provide a good resource for everyone, as I have not really seen much talk of this aspect of a rebuild.


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Reassembly/restoration completed and running again*

In my last message, I wondered about the proper positioning of the headstock (h/s) in the left-right position. During my reassembly I had noted the h/s was "hanging off" the end of the bed by about .108. I had forgotten making this note in my logbook. I wish I had remembered it before I did the alignment. Now, I had to slide the h/s leftwards to properly align the gear train.

The covers are now all on and aligned. I still need some rubber bumpers at the front for the belt cover. I connected the drive belt and checked the belt tracking by hand, it looked okay. 
Before putting oil into the spindle pulley oil hole, I wrapped some Teflon tape around the two setscrews in the middle pulley, to forestall the leaking that I mentioned at the start of this thread (just over a year ago. ) 
With everything oiled and greased, I fired it up. With no load, it sounded nice, maybe quieter than before? I checked the belt tracking in all three pulley positions, no problem. Backgear works, forward and reverse drives work, crossfeed, longitudinal feed, and halfnut feeds all work okay. (Needed to tight the pulley belt a bit more).

I still need to recheck/readjust the spindle alignment and the tailstock alignment, but the reassembly is done.
Remember, here is what I started with when I bought the lathe last spring...







Restoration is essentially complete, so Happy 70th Birthday to the lathe, and now it's time to get it dirty again! My thanks to all of you that followed my progress and gave me ideas and encouragement, in particular, to Redlineman, Chuck K, and stevecmo

---

I tried a quick test cut on a piece of pipe, confirming that it needs alignment. But then I made a starter shaft for motorized scooter engine. This was a piece of 5/16" drill rod, turned down for 6 x 1.0 metric threads at one end, and threaded for 8 x 1.25 on the other. I know there's a way to single point cut metric threads, I got the gears last year... but for this, I just used metric dies.


Machining work done, now the shaft needs to be tested for fit in the engine, then hardened.

BTW, Remaining odds and ends on the lathe restoration
- find and fit the rubber bumpers
- figure out how to get that stop bracket into place
- finish the alignment



What's next?  Besides actually using the lathe for various little projects, I'm searching for an appropriate big project. Maybe another engine, maybe a miniature firearm model - in particular, I''m thinking of the French 75mm field artillery such as was used by my grandfather, a lieutenant in the AEF whose gun battery fired the very first American Expeditionary Force shots of WW I. 

And when I bought the Logan, it came with a rolling wooden case/workbench filled with various lathe accessories. Some items are obvious, others are somewhat of a mystery.  I will figure out what I've got there and probably clean them up a bit. Some I will  use. Some I will not need, and will sell them.

    Greg


----------



## GarageGuy

Congrats on an excellent restoration!  Make lots of chips and enjoy the heck out of it.  Now we expect to see lots of turning projects!

  :hugethumbzup:


----------



## Redlineman

Well Done, Greg!

And thanks. You can return the favor of encouragement by motivating me when I finally get back to my project. I've been so busy at the shop and family stuff is really at a peak right this moment, but that is all tailing off and I hope to get back to it as the weather turns. I've been having those inklings!

Please do continue your thread by posting your further efforts to tune the old beast. Toss in some projects you are using the lathe for as well. We all love to live from afar with others!


----------



## Jon In Tucson

Well done sir!  :thumbsup:
As the the others have said, continue to post as you tune and as well as any projects you attempt.  I hope to get my Logan to the place where you started...  God bless.
Jon In Tucson


----------



## JR49

Greg, congratulations on the amazing restoration. I've been reading along ever since I joined the forum, and only just now realized where you live. I live in Lakeside, and am totally new to  machining . I've bought a few things at the usual on-line stores, but would love to be able to walk in and see what I am looking for. I was hoping that you, (or any other SD county guys) could recommend any  actual walk in stores that carry machinist tools or supplies. For instance, where did you get the 5/8" drill rod that you just used as a test bar? Looking forward to reading many more posts about your projects with your Logan 820, thanks JR49


----------



## gjmontll

Hi JR
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed reading my epic tale. Perhaps we can meet sometime.

As to your question about local stores, here is an annotated list of my suppliers, or potential suppliers. Almost all are chains, so you probably have a local instance.

Home Depot - since it is just two blocks from home! hardware, metals, paint, tools
Lowe's - they used to have a much better set of special fasteners than HD, now they have cut back noticeably, but still have a better inventory
Escondido Lumber Company (despite the name, it's a True Value hardware store, and quite often has odd fasteners and specialty items not found at the above)
E & L Supply Company, Escondido - just fasteners, no minimum quantity required. This is the place that all the above stores suggest when they don't have the fastener
Harbor Freight - my wife says they are my favorite store
Escondido has at least 3 metal dealers with both new and scrap pieces, Duco Metal has a nicely organized yard of steel and aluminum remnants, available for browsing. None of these places have drill rod
Fastenal (San Marcos, Poway, and elsewhere) - this is my drill rod supplier. (BTW, correction to my thread, I was using 1/2" drill rod, not 5/8" as the test rod.
Kaman Industrial, Escondido - bearings and bushings
various auto parts stores - lubricants, tools, rags,
Rockler, on Clairemont Mesa - mainly woodworking, but I've gotten lathe centers and drill chucks there
Tool Mart, Escondido - need a single drill or tap? not a whole set, these guys have them
Marshal's Industrial Hardware, 8243 Production, in Miramar - I've never been there, but some guy said they are a very good resource.

Greg



JR49 said:


> Greg, congratulations on the amazing restoration. I've been reading along ever since I joined the forum, and only just now realized where you live. I live in Lakeside, and am totally new to  machining . I've bought a few things at the usual on-line stores, but would love to be able to walk in and see what I am looking for. I was hoping that you, (or any other SD county guys) could recommend any  actual walk in stores that carry machinist tools or supplies. For instance, where did you get the 5/8" drill rod that you just used as a test bar? Looking forward to reading many more posts about your projects with your Logan 820, thanks JR49


----------



## stevecmo

Outstanding work Greg!  I know it was a long journey, but you'll get many hours of use and pleasure from your hard work.

There is a guy on eBay that sells the rubber bumpers.  I've studied your pics and cannot see what's amiss with your bracket.

Again, nice job.

Steve


----------



## gjmontll

Thanks Steve, 
For now, I just inprovised a pair of rubber bumpers, each is a rubber bevel washer sitting on piece of 1/4" rod, (turned down to fit washer hole) and slip fit into the headstock.


   Greg



stevecmo said:


> Outstanding work Greg!  I know it was a long journey, but you'll get many hours of use and pleasure from your hard work.
> 
> There is a guy on eBay that sells the rubber bumpers.  I've studied your pics and cannot see what's amiss with your bracket.
> 
> Again, nice job.
> 
> Steve


----------



## woodtickgreg

What a great looking restoration, I have enjoyed following along and watching it all come together, very nice. I grew up as a kid in San Diego, great place for a kid to grow up. I lived in Clairemont mesa, moved to Michigan when I was 16 in 1976, been here ever since.


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Spindle Alignment Attempts Continuing (Rollie's Dad's Method)*

On and off for two months, I've been trying to measure and improve the headstock/spindle alignment. I've tried a variety of methods and continue to have problems getting it right. 

The best method seems to be "Rollie's Dad's Method" (RDM), but I have been making measurements, inserting and removing shims, and cranking on the leveling legs without real success. With RDM, I've been using a 15" piece of 1/2"drill rod in my 4-jaw chuck, taking horizontal and vertical measurements at two "stations", one 1" from the chuck, the other at 13". 

The lathe is 70 years old, the ways are obviously worn, maybe this is the problem, especially since maximum wear is typically close to the chuck. And if I adjust the saddle gibs snug when the carriage is at the chuck, it locks up tight by the time I get halfway over to the right. So maybe the alignment problem I'm seeing is not all due to spindle alignment, but also due to irregularities in the ways, particularly since my one measurement point is in that "max wear region.

Today I tested this hypothesis. Rather than just using the two measurement stations (0" and 13"), this time I took measurements at each inch along the rod, stations 0, 1, 2, ... 13. Ät each station, you measure (dial indicator in the tool post) the max and min readings in the horizontal plane, then find the average of those two readings. Repeat the process at each station, but with the dial indicator measuring in the vertical plane.

I expected to see irregularities nearest the chuck, but the results are surprising. I'm yet sure what they fully imply and am looking for y'all's ideas. Here is a graph of today's RDM  results. I hope you can read this...




On the Y-axis is the averaged dial indicator readings, in thousandths. On the X-axis are the measurement stations (inches from the chuck). There are two curves plotted, the upper one is the horizontal axis measurements, the lower one is the vertical axis. If the lathe was perfectly in alignment (and not worn), the lines would be perfectly horizontal. 
Instead, you see that for the first 8 stations (8 inches), the results are nicely linear. Based on the slopes, this indicates an headstock misalignment of 0.016"/foot horizontal and 0.002"/ft vertical. Therefore the horizontal axis needs to tilt forward, toward the tool post (right side of the headstock comes toward me. And the vertical axis needs to tilt upward a bit more (shims under right side of headstock.) OTOH, according to my calculation, that .002/ft is just what the expected sag in the rod would be. A larger test rod would prove/disprove this. (One factor for which RDM does not account is any sag in the test rod.)

But then, starting at station 9, both the horizontal and vertical curves go awry, although they seem to return toward the original slope rates. This tells me something is wrong with the ways around the 8"- 11" range. And this break in the linearities perhaps explains why my initial RDM efforts weren't working right, since I was measuring beyond the linear region.

I would think that the cutting forces would cause wear on the top of the front way (inside of the V-way) and the bottom of the rear way. Is this true? I will investigate tomorrow.

I am tempted to get another, longer piece of drill rod, maybe 5/8"or even 3/4", to enable measuring further down the ways (and reduce/eliminate the sagging rod factor)

Greg


----------



## Redlineman

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Spindle Alignment Attempts Continuing (Rollie's Dad's Method)*

Go Big, Greg;

I would go for 1" rod even. Or, even the largest that will fit through the spindle. I would think that the amount of deflection on a 1/2 rod not turned between centers would be significant. I assume you are not turning between centers, seeing no quill in your tailstock...

Learn all you can and become an expert at this, 'cause I can see you will be coaching me through this... soon, I hope. The seat of my pants works for a lot of things, but not intricate process, and NOTHING I have works good at math!


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Rollie's Dad's Method for Spindle Alignment, enhanced version*

Redlineman and the gang,

The Logan 820 has a spindle bore of 0.781, so I got a new piece of 3/4" drillr od and cut off a 2 foot piece for a bigger test rod. Bigger is better since it reduces inherent sag in the rod itself. According to my calculations, 13"of 1/2 rod will sag 0.0022, but 3/4 rod will only sag 0.001. But my new 24" rod may sag 0.011 at the end. And the heavy rod may sag more inside my elderly 8" 4-jaw chuck. In retrospect, I should have super torqued the jaws before today's run!

Here are the old 1/2 rod and the new 3/4 one, ready to go.


But today's work primarily focused on the horizontal alignment. Based on yesterday's graph, which showed a horizontal error of 0.0177"/foot, I added an 0.008 shim under the right rear corner of the headstock's, on the front side of the vee-way, so as to skew the spindle axis forward. 

I marked the rod at every inch, starting near the chuck (station 0) and running out to station 20. Remember yesterday's erratic readings around station 9, now I hope to get a better idea of what's going on. The rear side of the front carriage way did show a series of little marks in that region, you could barely feel them with a needle, but they are "microdents", maybe caused by chattering? Anyhow, I wiped down the ways and tighten all the gibs before today's measurements.

First the horizontal, now that the shim has been added. Here is how the horizontal measurements are done:


Starting at station 0, I crank the carriage in until I getting a nice round reading on the dial indicator such as 0.300, then turn the spindle until I find and record the high and low readings at that station.  Today I made a spreadsheet to find the averages and plot them, (note: from here on, I will show numbers like 0.3015 as just "301.5")
Station   Max     Min      Average
   0          301.5   298.5     300
   1  
   2   
...
And so on: crank the carriage down to the next station, find and record the max and min. Every few inches, I make sure the dial indicator is still on the centerline of the rod. Because of the sag factor, I need to readjust the tool holder height a few times. Be careful not to bump the cross feed or compound cranks!

Then the vertical measurements: I change my tool holders to one with a vertically mounted dial indicator and repeat the station by station measurements of the max and min deflections in order to find the average deflection at each station.



Here are today's results:


Analysis: The .008 shim has significantly improved the horizontal alignment, going from .0177"/foot of misalignment down to 0.0055"/ft. Therefore, I will add another .004 of shim and that should about zero it out. Note, these slopes are figured in the interval of stations 0 - 7, the nice linear portion. But despite the dips, the full 20"range is not too bad, it works out to 0.003"/ft of error (on average, ignoring the anomalies). I think I could live with that.

But the vertical error is much worse today Is it due to the fatter/longer bar not being clamped tight enough in the chuck? 

Redlineman: Do you see what's going on here? Because I am not actually cutting the rod, having a long, thin piece sticking out of the chuck is not a real problem, especially in the horizontal plane. It is just the few grams of pressure from the dial indicator. The nice thing about RDM is that you don't need a perfectly straight rod, nor a perfect, zero-runout chuck. Because the readings are averaged, that accounts for these factors. But it doesn't account for sag, as mentioned earlier, and it doesn't account for variations in the diameter of the rod from station to station. Drill rod should be good, but I will mike it tomorrow, any variations can be compensated for in the spreadsheet if needed. 

Tomorrow I have to teach a math class, but may get back into the shop and continue this epic.

    Greg


----------



## Redlineman

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Rollie's Dad's Method for Spindle Alignment, enhanced version*

Yes, Master;

Dumb me. This is a static test. Duh. It will be interesting to see how it holds when the rubber meets the road? Drill rod is usually ground to... .0005 or so? Max/min average to account for runout, yes? Maybe I should actually read the RDM to see what it says? I'm not a very good book learner, and tend to reflexively shy away from even trying...

But... I just picked up the sweetest B&S jeweled .0001 reading indicator you ever saw, and for a song. Shipping was more than the purchase price. I still can't believe it! Oh... sorry...


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Rollie's Dad's Method for Spindle Alignment, enhanced version*

Last week I showed the results after shimming the headstock for some horizontal adjustment. I was thinking the vertical error might in part be from an inadequately-tightened chuck, and from inherent sag in the 23 inches of 3/4" drill rod.

So, I really tighened the chuck and checked that the drill rod did have a uniform diameter. It was uniform, within the accuracy/precision of my micrometer and calipers. In the horizontal axis, I had been close to alignment, so rather than adding more shim, I raised the right front leg by using my homemade adjustable leveling feet.

Remember the anomaly starting at around 8" inches from the chuck? Here, again is last week's plot of the horizontal and vertical misalignments. As I said, ideally the lines would be straight and flat.


Now, here is the latest plot. Note that I've changed the Y-axis from the averaged dial indicator offset readings, to a zero-based alignment error. Regardless, the lines should still, ideally be flat and straight.



At least for the first 7 inches, this looks great. The question remains: is this an illustration of really badly-worn ways, or maybe a bent bed? 

Most of my unsupported turning should/will probably be close to the chuck, or I else I should/will be supporting with the tailstock center or a steady rest. So I think I am happy with this. Checking/fixing the tailstock-to-spindle alignment is the next challenge!

Rather than optimizing the alignment in the first seven inches, I wonder if I should try to zero the error at some other point, for example at the 13 inch point. Visualize the two curves maintaining their shape, but rotating around their origins. Depending on what is causing the nonlinearity, that might give much better overall alignment, but may induce way more error in the first several inches.  Anybody got ideas on that?

About the sagging bar issue, I think I've learned how to figure the amount of deflection. (assisted by _Machinery's Handbook_, _Engineering Drawing and Design_, _Wikipedia_, and other sources.) I think the deflection is about 0.0011 at 6", 0.0036"at 12", and 0.0072" at 18".  These numbers are for 23"of 3/4" steel.

Checking/fixing the tailstock-to-spindle alignment is the next challenge!

   Greg


----------



## Mister Ed

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Rollie's Dad's Method for Spindle Alignment, enhanced version*

Dang ... you guys are making my poor old head hurt!! Don't get me wrong, nice work ... but I guess I have to reread on a day I have not already exhausted my few brain cells at work.


----------



## Redlineman

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Rollie's Dad's Method for Spindle Alignment, enhanced version*

I Hear Ya, Ed;

He's dun spun my head around a few times too. A real Process Guy! Greg, I believe you are speaking of trying to average your variation between early and mid travel on the bed, to achieve a balanced result between them? At the very least, it would be interesting to see if, and how, you might achieve that, and whether you were actually able to make it better or not? Could be quite illustrative. A scientific method employing one type of change - say, pad jacking - then a return to zero again (if you could get there), then another - as in shimming - to see how each effects the status, offering some idea of which might be a more effective means of getting where you want to go. If I read you correctly, in general, I agree with your thought that an averaged deviation across the bed might prove more useful overall. Only if you planned to do short work would it not make sense, of course.

A side to this is not getting caught up in minutia, which is so dang easy. I was indicating a drill press quill in on the mill yesterday, to shave the base surface of the quill stay bracket flat. I was using that "new" .0001 indicator I spoke of. Man... I got it indicated to about .0004!... until I snugged my X-travel on the mill. Dang!!!... added about another thou of deviation again.

CRAP! anic:

(Stops... Shakes head...) .0014"... Ummm... That's pretty close, eh? Sure... I nudged it back to 4/10ths again... but just to show I could!! :jester:


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Rollie's Dad's Method for Spindle Alignment, enhanced version*

Guys, thanks for the comments.  

I think that before I make any more changes, I want to evaluate the tailstock alignment.
 I already know that it is significantly out-of-alignment, and there are more variables in the tailstock alignment; a full assessment will be difficult.  I have read about a variety of techniques and will try some of them. Also, I think I will use Rollie's Dad's Method to measure the tailstock axis, similiar to how I did the headstock axis.

About the pad jacking screws on the feet: The horizontal spindle alignment is quite sensitive to the jacking action which twists the bed, but it seems to me that the vertical alignment should not nearly be responsive, particularly if the horizontal alignment is nearly right. But the big limitation of my pad jacks is the limited range of effectiveness. You have to ensure that all four (or five) feet are on the floor; I was making progress in the twisting until the right rear foot came free. Ideally the pads should be anchored to the floor; then you could twist away through a greater range. In my crowded garage, that's not happening. So I shim a bit then try the legs.

Greg




Redlineman said:


> I Hear Ya, Ed;
> 
> He's dun spun my head around a few times too. A real Process Guy! Greg, I believe you are speaking of trying to average your variation between early and mid travel on the bed, to achieve a balanced result between them? At the very least, it would be interesting to see if, and how, you might achieve that, and whether you were actually able to make it better or not? Could be quite illustrative. A scientific method employing one type of change - say, pad jacking - then a return to zero again (if you could get there), then another - as in shimming - to see how each effects the status, offering some idea of which might be a more effective means of getting where you want to go. If I read you correctly, in general, I agree with your thought that an averaged deviation across the bed might prove more useful overall. Only if you planned to do short work would it not make sense, of course.
> 
> A side to this is not getting caught up in minutia, which is so dang easy. I was indicating a drill press quill in on the mill yesterday, to shave the base surface of the quill stay bracket flat. I was using that "new" .0001 indicator I spoke of. Man... I got it indicated to about .0004!... until I snugged my X-travel on the mill. Dang!!!... added about another thou of deviation again.
> 
> CRAP! anic:
> 
> (Stops... Shakes head...) .0014"... Ummm... That's pretty close, eh? Sure... I nudged it back to 4/10ths again... but just to show I could!! :jester:


----------



## GarageGuy

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Rollie's Dad's Method for Spindle Alignment, enhanced version*



gjmontll said:


> You have to ensure that all four (or five) feet are on the floor; I was making progress in the twisting until the right rear foot came free. Ideally the pads should be anchored to the floor; then you could twist away through a greater range. In my crowded garage, that's not happening. So I shim a bit then try the legs.



This is harder than it sounds.  I recently moved my lathe 18", and because my garage floor is so uneven, that meant starting over leveling it again.  That 5th "leg" makes it very difficult to get the other 4 even.  It exerts a lot of twisting force on the bed unless it is very well aligned.  Problem is you can't do one or the other, they have to all be adjusted together.  Each affects the others.  I went through several tries only to find 1 foot that wasn't touching the floor.  At one point I gave up and waited for another day.  That helped!

GG


----------



## gjmontll

*Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Tailstock Alignment, Part 1 of ?*

Previously I thought I might adapt Rollie's Dad's Method (RDM) of headstock alignment to the tailstock too.  At least for now, not going to do that. 

Instead I used the method shown on YouTube by Halligan142 in his _South Bend Lathe Tailstock Alignment. 
 ( _https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmMmM8B40bs )
 His video shows how to make and use a test bar to measure and adjust the tailstock for alignment with the spindle axis in both the horizontal and vertical axes. And the nice feature is that the tailstock doesn't need to be closely aligned to make a good test bar!

Note: Hoping to be unambiguous in my narrative, I'll reference the tailstock in nautical directions: fore and aft, port and starboard; with bow being the quill and the stern the handwheel, port is closest to you and starboard is the "back". 

Using 1/2" steel rod, I first made a 12" test bar and used it. 

After overhauling the tailstock, of course it was out in the horizontal (y-axis?), this is more or less easily fixed using the port and starboard adjustment screws. The difficulty is an apparent sloppiness in the tailstock's positioning as it tightens down against the bed. I would thing that with the vee-shaped way, even with wear on the ways and tailstock, that I would get repeatable readings. But loosening the tailstock, moving right and back left to re-engage the test rod and retightening everthing (tailstock clamp, quill/center against test rod, and quill lock) sometimes seems to have about 0.002" of variance.  Anybody got ideas on this?

The vertical alignment was also out, as a first pass, I inserted 0.0116" shims at both ends (fore and aft) of the tailstock. This is now very close to zero, at least with the tailstock positioned to engage the 12" test bar with the quill extended to about mid-travel (i.e. at the 1" point.) 

But I also measured the horiz and vert errors with the quill positioned at its 0" and 2" marks. This should tell me whether the quill travel is parallel to the spindle, or somewhat skewed. The numbers showed the horizontal to be perfect. But the vertical shows a downward slope of about 0.001" offset per inch of quill travel. This implies the bow and stern are unevenly worn. I will work out the geometry and adjust the shimming a bit. This may be irrelevant when turning work, but import on deep drilling. (Which will be important in my upcoming model artillery project!)

After 70 years of use, I know the carriage ways are worn. What about the tailstock's ways? (For those of you not familiar with the Logans, the carriage and tailstock each have their own pair of ways, one flat way and one vee-way.) To check this, I just made a few more test rods, so I can also measure near the chuck, and elsewhere.  

My set now consists of 3", 6", 9", 12", and 18" rods, pictured below, notice how the measurement surface is turned down at the left end of each bar. Flip it end for end to measure at the headstock and then at the tailstock end. By the way, for each measurement, I've actually measured the min and max readings as I rotate the rod, then use the average. 




 I will go take the measurements and see what's next. And shown below: the setup for taking the vertical and horizontal measurements at the spindle and tailstock ends of the test bar. You'll notice I use a live center in the tailstock, a potential for unnecessary error. But its bearings are tight and the extra extension it provides is needed to get the carriage into measuring position without come up short against the bow of the tailstock.





Okay, off the the computer and out to the shop.
   Greg


----------



## James_Douglas

Hi Greg,

I have been reading your rebuild with interest.  I am rebuilding my Logan 820.  I have industrial machine leveling legs under my cast iron legs.  However, after reading your leveling issues, I plan on pouring a perfectly flat concrete pad where my lathe will go.  The garages in old San Francisco buildings slop a lot to a floor drain.  So....

My other problem is the bearings.  I have spent a week researching the issue.  You can see my other posts on that.  If I don't get a thoughtful answer soon, I am going to make a new bearing cover that will reduce the headstock bore by 12MM and use NSK headstock specific bearings and can choose my preload.

A lot of good things in your write up that I am using and will continue to do so.

Thanks for taking the time and the photos.

James.


----------



## gjmontll

James,
 Thank you, I'm glad my project has been useful to you. About the sloping floor - that's not just a old SF thing, for attached garages, the California Building Code specifies a slope toward a drain or the main vehicle doorway. A level base is useful if you are using a machinist's level for the adjustment. So your "perfectly flat concrete pad" can certainly be useful. More importantly, from my recent experience, is that the leveling legs, if possible, should be embedded into the concrete. Then, level or not, when you crank on the legs, you easily twist the bed as desired. And not, as was in my case, just end up with one leg in the air and more twist still needed. 

    Greg



James_Douglas said:


> Hi Greg,
> 
> I have been reading your rebuild with interest.  I am rebuilding my Logan 820.  I have industrial machine leveling legs under my cast iron legs.  However, after reading your leveling issues, I plan on pouring a perfectly flat concrete pad where my lathe will go.  The garages in old San Francisco buildings slop a lot to a floor drain.  So....
> 
> My other problem is the bearings.  I have spent a week researching the issue.  You can see my other posts on that.  If I don't get a thoughtful answer soon, I am going to make a new bearing cover that will reduce the headstock bore by 12MM and use NSK headstock specific bearings and can choose my preload.
> 
> A lot of good things in your write up that I am using and will continue to do so.
> 
> Thanks for taking the time and the photos.
> 
> James.


----------



## Redlineman

DO also note - regarding legs in the air - that these things will settle over time, as hard as it is to wrap your head around a lathe bed twisting. I have been leveling mine for the last 6 months, and it is still a work in progress!

Good to hear from you again, Greg. How is the machine work going?


----------



## James_Douglas

gjmontll said:


> James,
> Thank you, I'm glad my project has been useful to you. About the sloping floor - that's not just a old SF thing, for attached garages, the California Building Code specifies a slope toward a drain or the main vehicle doorway. A level base is useful if you are using a machinist's level for the adjustment. So your "perfectly flat concrete pad" can certainly be useful. More importantly, from my recent experience, is that the leveling legs, if possible, should be embedded into the concrete. Then, level or not, when you crank on the legs, you easily twist the bed as desired. And not, as was in my case, just end up with one leg in the air and more twist still needed.
> 
> Greg


Greg,

I hope you do not mind. I am posting the end of my trail on the spindle bearing topic here as anyone looking to rebuilding an 820 will run across it.  If someone wants to read the full topic do a search on Practical Machinist or the Logan Group on Yahoo for "Logan 820 bearing".

James.
********

Hi all,

On the bearing issue.  I called and talked with Scott Logan directly.  The conversation was somewhat a curt one.  He was not interested in talking about the issues of bearing preload tightness vs. bearing preload wear life. Nor was he interested in the Bearing Engineering House(s) engineer comments on the subject.

He just reiterated that his bearings are to the original specification, what ever those are and for whatever original reasoning, like product vs. hobby, may have been made 70 years ago.

Even though it is evident that he has the bearings made to order, he is not interested in offering anything other than the "original preload".

I think what I am going to do is to order his bearing for now. I will measure the preload and note what it is while getting the lathe back together.

Later, I will make a new bearing retaining plate that will double as a bearing housing for the NSK spindle bearings as I talked about in my other posts.  I will get a set of NSK spindle bearing with one preload tighter, in their 4 step graduation, and see what the difference ends up being.

This may take until the fall as I have other projects to deal with.  But, once I do the comparison, I will try to swing back and post the results.

As an aside, I have had dealing with business in Asia and Europe.  I have to say that it seems that in the USA, as a general rule, business people in many sectors seem to not be interested in actually talking with a customer.  My Asian and European contacts seem much more interested in being helpful than folks in business in the USA these days not withstanding if you are ordering one or one-thousand items.

It was not that way when I was young, too bad it is all to common these days.

Best, James.
*********************


----------



## JR49

James_Douglas said:


> The conversation was somewhat a curt one. He was not interested in talking about the issues of bearing preload tightness vs. bearing preload wear life. Nor was he interested in the Bearing Engineering House(s) engineer comments on the subject.



James, I was so glad to read your comments today about talking with S. Logan. There was a thread about 6-8 months ago (think it was "dealing with Logan Actuator"), where I was the only one (possibly one other) who was unhappy after trying to speak to Mr. Logan. I have still gone out of my way so as to not buy anything from him, because of his unwillingness to help me.   Thanks for the validation, and Greg, sorry for going off topic.  JR49


----------



## James_Douglas

JR49 said:


> James, I was so glad to read your comments today about talking with S. Logan. There was a thread about 6-8 months ago (think it was "dealing with Logan Actuator"), where I was the only one (possibly one other) who was unhappy after trying to speak to Mr. Logan. I have still gone out of my way so as to not buy anything from him, because of his unwillingness to help me.   Thanks for the validation, and Greg, sorry for going off topic.  JR49



JR, He was not nasty.  He just was not interested in the possibility of expanding his product offering.  All of us that run a business understand that.  What was annoying was the tone.  He could have spent a few minutes talking about the information I have received from the bearing maker engineers and others. I made it clear that I was a novice and gave him an opportunity to educate me.  Even if he has not interested in making a part available, he could have taken 10 minutes to go into a discussion of the merits.

Perhaps the lathe parts supply business is just a small fraction of what Logan Actuator does these days and he finds such inquires as to much of a distraction.  If he had just said so, it would have been more to my personal way of doing business communications than not acknowledging, in a meaningful way, what I was trying to discuss.

I will continue to buy things that I need for the lathe from Logan Actuator, but, I also will not go out of my way to do so either.  Support is a two way street in the hobby world.

James.

************
I hope this response is not considered offensive by this forums rules. If so then the moderator can delete it.
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## Marvelicious

Wow, some of the restorations on this site just blow me away.  I'm not sure I have the patience myself, but it is nice to see what can be done.


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## dlinva

gjmontll said:


> *Re: Greg's Logan 820 Restoration - Reassembly: progress and a problem*
> 
> View attachment 81685
> 
> 
> A week ago, the first part of the reassembly went smoothly. Installed the QCGB and lead screw, apron and saddle, and tool post. Roughly positioned the headstock in preparation for alignment. Then I wrestled the drive unit into place and pinned it to the headstock. The belt is not yet on, nor are the top and side covers. Nor is the gear train.
> 
> Similar to the alignment tests I did before the reassembly, I began using the "Rollie's Dad's Method" (RDM) using a guide rod (~3/8"diam) out of a printer, as is commonly suggested. Note: back in December, before the teardown, RDM told me the spindle axis was skewed 0.0037/foot rearward, and 0.0054/foot downward.
> 
> First I leveled the ways in both X and Y, then took the RDM measurements. There's significant horizontal play available in the headstock's position; a bit of trial and error postioning/tightening and I got to about 10 thous (0.0100/ft) before switching to check the vertical axis. The vertical seems to be 19.0 low (From here on, I'll omit the thousandths/ft in my numbers.) I spent the rest of the afternoon messing with shims, getting closer, but not close enough.
> 
> A bit more reading on RDM. It appears to be controversial, and is not the professional way. Once I get the machine powered up, I will cut a test rod, but for now, it seems adequate. Except that it does not account for any possible sag in the test rod.
> 
> So, yesterday, I switched from that printer shaft to a piece of 5/8" drill rod. It still showed that the axis was low. I added a bit more shim and saw -0.6 (low). Rechecking the horizontal: initially -2 (rear skew). I couldn't get this out by skewing the headstock any further. But it was very responsive to the adjustable levelling legs I had added. Raise the front right leg about half a turn put enough twist in the bed to end up with -0.3 horizontal and -0.2 vertical. Enough alignment for now, I plan to recheck once it's running. (And as you'll read below, I am going to have to move the headstock!)
> 
> Back to the reassembly, I reinstalled the Reverse Gear Assembly and the Change Gear Assembly, setting the gear lash with ordinary paper strips. But now I have a problem. I can't get the "Stop Bracket" (LA-510) to properly position. If I position it to allow the proper gear mesh, then I can't close the side cover. Here is a picture of my problem, and pictures from before the disassembly. I've had this bracket on and off before and I don't see what I'm doing wrong.  *Any of you Logan guys have the answer?*
> View attachment 81691
> 
> Here are the reference shots. In this case, they haven't helped! Now, the slot in the bracket doesn't go down far enough to let the bracket go nearly vertical to clear the hinge bracket.
> View attachment 81692
> View attachment 81693
> 
> And another question for Team Logan: Is the left end of your headstock flush with the end of the bed, or not? Is it offset a bit? Which way and how much? Now that I have it bolted down and reasonably aligned but offset about 1/16" to the right, as a consequence I see my spindle gear doesn't fully engage the width of the drive gear. And belatedly, I look back in my disassembly notes from 25 March and see that before removal, it was offset to the left by 0.108. Maybe this is also the cause of my bracket problem? I'll play with it this afternoon.
> 
> Greg
> 
> View attachment 81685
> View attachment 81691
> View attachment 81692
> View attachment 81693


Greg, I just finished restoring a model 821 (just like the 820, but 31" center to center). At least that is what I believe is the only difference. I too am having an issue with the getting the side gear cover to close when the gears are meshed to drive the lead screw. Did you resolve this? Looking for an answer....thanks! Really enjoyed  your write up and all the photos!!


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## gjmontll

dlinva said:


> Greg, I just finished restoring a model 821 (just like the 820, but 31" center to center). At least that is what I believe is the only difference. I too am having an issue with the getting the side gear cover to close when the gears are meshed to drive the lead screw. Did you resolve this? Looking for an answer....thanks! Really enjoyed  your write up and all the photos!!


It wasn't until quite some time later that I found the problem. 
I had set up to cut some threads. As proper procedure calls for, I'd made a very light first pass then checked the resulting thread pitch. It was wrong, therefore I'd assembled the gear train wrong. 
My mistake had been to place the lead screw's gear at the outer position and the spacer inboard. I reversed them. Fixing it also allowed the gear cover to properly close.  
I just took this picture to show the difference.


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## dlinva

Thanks Greg - will take a look this coming weekend. Do appreciate the quick reply!


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## jediscuba

Does anyone have the specifications for the small carriage lock plate on a Logan 10 or 11 lathe.  I lost mine in transit.
..


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## gjmontll

jediscuba said:


> Does anyone have the specifications for the small carriage lock plate on a Logan 10 or 11 lathe.  I lost mine in transit.
> ..


Take a look back in this long thread to the posts from 09 - 14 Aug 2013, as we discuss this very issue. My simple lock has worked out fine )and I never did make the fancy bolt.)


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## richz

gjmontll said:


> Take a look back in this long thread to the posts from 09 - 14 Aug 2013, as we discuss this very issue. My simple lock has worked out fine )and I never did make the fancy bolt.)


Don't know if there the same but this is for a 14" Logan.


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## jediscuba

gjmontll said:


> Take a look back in this long thread to the posts from 09 - 14 Aug 2013, as we discuss this very issue. My simple lock has worked out fine )and I never did make the fancy bolt.)


Thanks .I had read your post prior to uploading mine. I don't have the saddle off the ways so as to take actual measuements. I was hoping to avoid the disassembly. Did you draw out the specs or jut shoot from the hip and make things fit?


richz said:


> Don't know if there the same but this is for a 14" Logan.


gjmontll,
Thanks for the drawing with specifications.
Unfortunately the 9 and 10" lathes us a different lock nut made of, I think, cast iron.

I did sharpen up you line sketch and I'm putting it with this response.

Steve


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## T. J.

Hope this helps.


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## jediscuba

T. J. said:


> Hope this helps.
> View attachment 389611
> 
> View attachment 389610


TJ,
Thank you so much for your diagram and measurements. The original cost of the clamping nut was about 20 cents. Theses days Logan is asking over $21 and another $21 for shipping.
With your help I'll make it myself.
Steve


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## British Tool

gjmontll said:


> In February 2013, I bought a Logan 820. Serial Number is 24157 (Made in 1944, it would be be interesting to know its history). A good project for my upcoming retirement!
> This Logan was to be an upgrade from the Atlas 618 I've had for the past 4 years and that served as my entry into this home machining hobby. The 820 was operational, but clearly in need of some refurbishing.
> In April I retired. First, I needed to get the Atlas repaired and sold to make some room in the garage. Had to move the Atlas every time I needed to get to my X2 minimill.
> 
> *Preparatory Logan work*: Get AXA toolholders for the Logan, the parts diagram/list, a face plate, threading dial, and other assorted tooling. I made chuck keys for the 8" 4-jaw chuck, and then overhauled the chuck, and overhauled the 3-jaw chuck. (Both interesting exercises in their own righ!)
> 
> Finally, I used the Logan to make new cross slide and compound slide crank handles for the Atlas. Now it's sold, gone, and I've got room to tackle the Logan.
> 
> Here is the starting point, prior to whatever degree of restoration I get done.
> View attachment 57587
> 
> Some major issues I hope to remedy:
> 
> 
> *QCGB*: left selector arm is almost frozen. With the aid of a brass rod and a mallet, it does shift and appears to work okay. Hard to read the gear chart, if it doesn't clean up then I'll get one from Logan Actuator.
> *Headstock:* Backgear lever missing the detent mechanism. Oil leaking on the left hand spindle pulley. I'm not sure if it's leaking from the "Oil" setscrew or the other setscrew, and not sure if the setscrews are quite the right length and type.
> *Apron and saddle*: Apron leaks oil. I'm not sure when the lathe was lasted oiled, but it didn't appear to be very recently. Hopefully the prior owner(s) didn't do too much damage. There is no carriage lock, so I plan to make one or order one. Handwheel bushing is very worn and will be replaced. I assume that several other bushings in the apron are also worn. We'll see when I tear it down. Power feeds are in working condition; I'm not expecting major problems.
> *Appearance: *Ugly paint. The blue on the belt cover, legs, and tailstock is not too bad, but the headstock, bed,  QCGB, apron/saddle, and tray need to be restored. I guess I'll make them blue to match.
> *Leveling:*The garage floor is not level. I plan to get/make some jackscrew-type levelers to put under the feet.
> And then there are many minor issues, other minor missing parts. I'm sure I'll be assembling a shopping list or two for Logan Actuator.
> 
> And now it's July, Stay tuned as I dig in. I welcome your feedback, ideas, hints, comments of any kind.
> Greg
> 
> View attachment 57587


Hi Greg, I have this self same lathe! A few questions for you sir. Where is the serial number found? I need help with manuals and a parts book, so where did you find yours? Mine was dismantled for shipping, and if you have fotos of how to mount the motor assembly I would be extremely grateful to have them so I can get this lovely lady working again. Thanks in advance. Robb


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## gjmontll

Robb,
I assume you just acquired your 820, I hope it will do the job for you, (whatever that might be.) You may have already read through my long series of postings in this thread. Some of it may certainly be useful and I'd be glad to answer any other questions. I guess a lot depends on the condition of your specimen.

Now to your specific questions:
The serial number is on the front right upper corner of the bed, just above the bushing for the end of the lead screw. You will need to know the s/n because in many cases, correct part numbers are serial number dependent.
The essential document you're looking for is the _Operators Instructions Parts List for the Model 800 Series. _

Here are a bunch of ways to contact Logan:
Mailing address: Logan Actuator Company, 550 Chippewa Rd, Harvard, IL 60033-2372​Telephone: 815.943.6755, Fax 815.943.6755​Web: http://www.loganact.com​Email: sales@loganact.com​There is also a useful email-based "Logan Lathe Users Group." It is run by Scott Logan, the president of the company.

About your "motor mount assembly" ... I don't know exactly how disassembled your lathe is, but I had the whole drive unit/motor mount/pegleg completely torn down. I even disassembled the motor to examine, clean, and lubricate it. You should read my postings starting on "page 7" of this thread (start with my Dec 15, 2013 posting about making leveling feet, since that affected the pegleg too.) Maybe my photos (along with the parts catalog's drawings will answer your questions. My lathe sits up close to a shelving unit behind it, with a workbench close on the right and my mill close on the left. So trying to get any good photos now is not easy, but I'll try to help you as I can.

I hope you'll inform us as you progress. Advice from this forum was certainly vital in my efforts.

Good luck,
    Greg


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## British Tool

gjmontll said:


> Robb,
> I assume you just acquired your 820, I hope it will do the job for you, (whatever that might be.) You may have already read through my long series of postings in this thread. Some of it may certainly be useful and I'd be glad to answer any other questions. I guess a lot depends on the condition of your specimen.
> 
> Now to your specific questions:
> The serial number is on the front right upper corner of the bed, just above the bushing for the end of the lead screw. You will need to know the s/n because in many cases, correct part numbers are serial number dependent.
> The essential document you're looking for is the _Operators Instructions Parts List for the Model 800 Series. _
> 
> Here are a bunch of ways to contact Logan:
> Mailing address: Logan Actuator Company, 550 Chippewa Rd, Harvard, IL 60033-2372​Telephone: 815.943.6755, Fax 815.943.6755​Web: http://www.loganact.com​Email: sales@loganact.com​There is also a useful email-based "Logan Lathe Users Group." It is run by Scott Logan, the president of the company.
> 
> About your "motor mount assembly" ... I don't know exactly how disassembled your lathe is, but I had the whole drive unit/motor mount/pegleg completely torn down. I even disassembled the motor to examine, clean, and lubricate it. You should read my postings starting on "page 7" of this thread (start with my Dec 15, 2013 posting about making leveling feet, since that affected the pegleg too.) Maybe my photos (along with the parts catalog's drawings will answer your questions. My lathe sits up close to a shelving unit behind it, with a workbench close on the right and my mill close on the left. So trying to get any good photos now is not easy, but I'll try to help you as I can.
> 
> I hope you'll inform us as you progress. Advice from this forum was certainly vital in my efforts.
> 
> Good luck,
> Greg


Hi Greg, you are giving me renewed hope for the revival an use of this little gem. Many many thanks.
I did order the manual and parts book from Logan. Their site sucks (my opinion).

Continued reading and rereading of your posts are deemed ESSENTIAL! for me. I have no mill at the
moment, but found an Index brand knee mill in very good shape. I restore antique bikes so the use would
be small for that.

All the best, Robb


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## tmenyc

I also have an 820, for my vintage fountain pen restoration business.  It needs further restoration, for sure, and will get a lot more attention starting in June, because I'm retiring from my professional work at the end of May. So looking forward to really cleaning it up, checking it out for error, and gettting far more proficient. The day job has been getting in the way for years! I used this thread extensively in learning my way around it, and am still learning from it.
Tim


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## British Tool

tmenyc said:


> I also have an 820, for my vintage fountain pen restoration business.  It needs further restoration, for sure, and will get a lot more attention starting in June, because I'm retiring from my professional work at the end of May. So looking forward to really cleaning it up, checking it out for error, and gettting far more proficient. The day job has been getting in the way for years! I used this thread extensively in learning my way around it, and am still learning from it.
> Tim


It's finally warm enough here in Michigan to work in the unheated garage! I hope this will help you. I need fotos of how to attach the motor carrier
to the lathe. Can you send some please?


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## tmenyc

is that addressed to me or Greg? I can send pics, sure, but prob not until tomorrow night earliest. 
Tim


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## British Tool

tmenyc said:


> is that addressed to me or Greg? I can send pics, sure, but prob not until tomorrow night earliest.
> Tim


Whomever needs it! Thanks Tim in advance for fotos. that will be a huge help.


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## tmenyc

British Tool said:


> Whomever needs it! Thanks Tim in advance for fotos. that will be a huge help.


Here you go. My lathe is flush to a wall so access is a bit tight. If you need better/closer do let me know.


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## British Tool

tmenyc said:


> Here you go. My lathe is flush to a wall so access is a bit tight. If you need better/closer do let me know.


Beautiful!!!!! Thank you.


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## tmenyc

British Tool said:


> Beautiful!!!!! Thank you.


You're welcome!


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