# Is There A Sleeve Bearing Atlas 6" (Not Craftsman)?



## wa5cab (Jun 14, 2013)

Group,

I have only a very limited number of Atlas catalogs over the period 1935 to 1955.  However, none of them show any evidence that Atlas ever sold a sleeve bearing 6" lathe to end users.  Every once in a while, someone posts here or on another list that they have a sleeve bearing 618.  Does anyone have any hard evidence that any of these machines are not in fact Craftsman 101.07301's?

Robert Downs - Houston
wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
MVPA 9480


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## AR1911 (Jun 15, 2013)

*Re: Sleeve Bearing Atlas 6"?*

So your question is "Were any of the sleeve-bearing 618s branded as Atlas, or are tehy unique to the Craftsman brand?".  

I scrolled through a lot of pics accumulated over the years. i saw no 618s with both Atlas logo and sleeve bearing headstock.  Of course, most had been repainted and no longer had a badge of either brand.


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## wa5cab (Jun 15, 2013)

*Re: Sleeve Bearing Atlas 6"?*

Yes. Part of the confusion factor may be that for some strange reason, people (both newbies and old hands) never seem to write "1236" instead of "12x36" or "12X36", "1024" instead of "10x24", etc when describing their machine or a machine. But use "618" and "6x18" interchangably. Although "1236" isn't (at least in the Atlas or Craftsman world), 1024 and 618 are both Atlas model numbers. So if one writes that they have a 618, it should mean specifically that it is an Atlas, not a Craftsman or an AA. And, I currently think, that it has Timken instead of sleeve spindle bearings. But I've recently seen two instances where someone wrote that they had a sleeve bearing 618 or more specifically Atlas 618. And I've seen a few eBay ads for headstock related parts that I think are mis-identified (which unfortunately isn't unusual on eBay, and not just with lathe parts).

Anyway, it certainly isn't a national security issue but it does or could affect doing things like trying to date machines from their serial numbers. Proving something from lack of evidence isn't ever the best way to do it but Clausing have no production records and I've never stumbled across anyone old enough to know.

Robert D.


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## AR1911 (Jun 15, 2013)

*Re: Sleeve Bearing Atlas 6"?*

I have had a number of these lathes over the years, and still have a nice one.
I have always just called them 618s, which I think most do.


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## wa5cab (Jun 15, 2013)

*Re: Sleeve Bearing Atlas 6"?*

OK.  I think that's probably the case in general. Unfortunately, used in that way there are at least seven different machines the writer could actually mean.  And that's just those associated with Atlas and/or Craftsman.  Anyway, absent evidence to the contrary, I guess I'll continue to assume that if it has sleeve bearings and no nameplate, it's a Craftsman.  And edit the serial number table accordingly.

Robert D.


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## David S (Jun 15, 2013)

I have a genuine Atlas 618 circa 1949, along with the manual that came with it.  I am sure when I was reading the manual they mentioned the babit bearings and then a section of the timken roller bearings.  When I get home I can check.

David


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## AR1911 (Jun 15, 2013)

David S said:


> I have a genuine Atlas 618 circa 1949, along with the manual that came with it.  I am sure when I was reading the manual they mentioned the babit bearings and then a section of the timken roller bearings.  When I get home I can check.



It's really easy to tell the difference. The sleeve bearing headstock has a slotted screw in front of both journals.


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## wa5cab (Jun 16, 2013)

David S,

I'm 99-44/100% sure that there has never been any indication that Atlas ever built any 6" machines with babbitt bearings. Only Timken tapered roller and split bronze sleeve.

AR1911,

I know. If it is an Atlas built 6" and it has a slot head screw showing in front of the spindle bearing oiler, it has sleeve bearings. But when you are going only on the written word (no photos) and some people call any 6x18 ever made by any manufacturer a 618, there is no way to tell what they actually have without asking further questions before you try to answer their questions. It might even have ball bearings. 

But be that as it may, the only thing I was asking was whether anyone has any actual proof that Atlas ever sold a sleeve bearing lathe with the original nameplate showing the model number as "618" and not "101.07300" or "101.07301".

Robert D.


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## hilestudio (Jun 16, 2013)

But be that as it may, the only thing I was asking was whether anyone has any actual proof that Atlas ever sold a sleeve bearing lathe with the original nameplate showing the model number as "618" and not "101.07300" or "101.07301".

Robert D.[/QUOTE]

Hi All:

I’m really really new to all this machining stuff.  I just checked my 618, and on the end it has an Atlas Press tag with the number 618.  When the little lady brings the camera home, I’ll post a picture.

Regards,
Warren Hile


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## AR1911 (Jun 16, 2013)

wa5cab said:


> w.  If it is an Atlas built 6" and it has a hex head bolt showing in front of the spindle bearing oiler, it has sleeve bearings.



Never seen a hex head bolt there. Always a slotted machine screw


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## wa5cab (Jun 17, 2013)

*Re: Is There A Sleeve Bearing Atlas 6&quot; (Not Craftsman)?*

Yeah, you're right. Guess I was thinking about the babbitt bearing cap screws. 

Robert



AR1911 said:


> Never seen a hex head bolt there. Always a slotted machine screw


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## VSAncona (Jun 17, 2013)

I've never seen one, not in person nor in any of the Atlas catalogs that I have. I would think that if Atlas had offered a 6" lathe with sleeve bearings that they would have given it a different model number to distinguish it from the Timken bearing lathes, as they did with the 10" lathes. Otherwise, it would have been a nightmare trying to supply parts to customers who needed to purchase replacement bearings, spindles, etc.. Come to think of it, none of the parts diagrams I've seen for the 618 have ever made mention of anything other than Timken bearings either.

Having said that, Atlas seemed to offer a multitude of configurations for their lathes, so nothing would surprise me.

I agree that it's a little confusing when people refer to their "Craftsman 618" lathe. But I just shrug that off as a newbie's lack of familiarity with the Atlas line. If you just stumbled across your first lathe, it can be pretty confusing trying to figure out what model it is, since they all look very similar at first glance.


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## wa5cab (Jun 17, 2013)

Yes.  And their model numbers weren't always consistent.  For example, the 918 is a 9x18 with 36" bed and what came to be known as a horizontal countershaft.  The 936 is a 9x18 with (the same) 36" bed and with what they called a Compound Drive.  With the 10", the digits always AFAIK referred to bed length.  1036, 1042, 1048 & 1054.  With suffix letters that more than anything else indicated what features were NOT present.  Then they dropped the "10" and went to letters.  But I won't go into that as I've already drifted my own thread enough.

Robert D.


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## David S (Jun 18, 2013)

wa5cab said:


> David S,
> 
> I'm 99-44/100% sure that there has never been any indication that Atlas ever built any 6" machines with babbitt bearings. Only Timken tapered roller and split bronze sleeve.
> 
> ...




Hi Robert here could be some of my confusion.  When I purchased the lathe from the original owner he gave me an Atlas manual of Lathe operation.  He purchased it in 1949.  Mine is a true Atlas 618 serial 015294.  The main things that I have referenced are the threading set up with the manual change gears.  That section says "Threading Information.. Atlas six - inch lathes.  I have refered to the manual for the operation of the backgear and the special oiling set screw for the spindle pulley set.

The section under care etc and spindle bearings says "the bearing shown above are made of special high-speed copper hard babbit - precision line boring equipment ........", Next section then says "Lathes with timken bearings".

As I look closer thru the manual it appears that there are pictures in other sections of lathes which I don't recognize as being my 618.  So perhaps part of the manual is generic and doesn't apply to my 618.

Sorry for any confusion.

David


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## wa5cab (Jun 19, 2013)

David S,

When the PO (in this case also the OO) bought your 618, it came with the MoLO (Manual of Lathe Operations) and an Owners Manual with Parts List.  The Owner's Manuals were specific to one size (swing) and one or a few models.  The MoLO is or was intended to be generic or universal.  It was first published in 1937 and was revised or at least reprinted almost every year from then up through 1957.  From there through 1981 the intervals varied from one to three years.  The final revision was in 1988 which is still "in print".  The revisions, after some errors in the threading tables were corrected, seem to have mostly been to change the photos and text to cover the current models.  I have a sampling of editions from 1937 to 1988 and haven't seen any actual photos of any of the 6" models, or of the Craftsman 12" for that matter, in any of the editions that I have.  Most if not all photos before 1960 seem to be of 10" models.  After that, they begin to change to the later 1/2" way 12".  And the writeups about things like bearings changed over the years.  Up until 1945, both the 10" and 12" models were available with either babbitt or Timken bearings.  Sometime between 1949 and 1955 (which edition I have), the section on babbitt bearings was removed.

So the short answer is that most of the MoLO is generic.  But for any specific reference to the machine you actually have, you're better off with an edition published not too many years after your lathe was made.  Many of the tables, however, remained the same. from beginning to end of production.  And the section on accessories changed little over the years.  So even the 1988 edition is useful with a 1938 lathe.

Robert D.


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