# Dual Kurt D688's Plus Kurt Magnetic Jaws, Parallels, Work Stops And Vice Keys.



## coolidge (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm about to begin work on a DRO install and was wondering how I was going to support the end of some aluminum bar stock that's too long for one vice. Then Enco tempted me with a 25% off sale and I thought duh a 2nd Kurt vice. I also ordered a 2nd set of Kurt magnetic jaws, parallels, work stops, and two sets of vice keys on the advice of my brother.

Here's the new 2nd set of Kurt magnetic vice jaws, parallels, and work stops. Note how the jaws are wrapped in paper...hold that thought...



Here is a jaw from the first set I had purchased a while back but never got around to installing, does this jaw look new to you? The jaws in this first set were not wrapped in paper like the second set which I found odd at the time, coincidence? I found chips inside this jaw  Yeah Enco is getting yelled at Monday. There are few things I 'hate' in this world but paying full price for new and receiving used is one of them.



Here are the vice Kurt vice keys, I'm and instant fan I should have purchased these from the get go. They make 2 sizes, these are the stepped keys that fit a 5/8 wide T slot. Kudo's to PM also these fit right in the T slots snug, yet still loose enough to slide the vices left and right without much effort. That's right made in the USA by God! $426.75 shipped to my door direct from Kurt with the Enco 25% off sale.



Here they are mounted on the PM 935. Note the Gibraltar aluminum two position speed handles I'm a big fan of these.



X travel is 20.5 inches (without over traveling the Y ways) I spaced these 19 inches apart measured at the outside of the vice jaws so I have enough room to hang over about 3/4 inch on each side. Tomorrow I'll break out the dial indicator and see how close they are with the keys.


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## wawoodman (Nov 14, 2015)

That is truly a thing of beauty!


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## Eddyde (Nov 14, 2015)

Aside from clamping long work you'll be able to do two separate setups at once, Nice!
I have the keys on my Kurt D88 they put me within a thou of parallel.


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## brav65 (Nov 14, 2015)

Coolidge all you need to complete the package is some nice pin striping!  To bad you can't take that puppy for a spin on Saturday night as she sure is purty!


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## Ed ke6bnl (Nov 14, 2015)

wow that is some pretty stuff


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## Bob Korves (Nov 14, 2015)

coolidge said:


> I'm about to begin work on a DRO install and was wondering how I was going to support the end of some aluminum bar stock that's too long for one vice.



Uh, maybe take your single vise off and mount the work to the table?  That is a a big investment for one job, and you may not need it again...


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## coolidge (Nov 14, 2015)

Bob I have multiple through holes to drill plus facing, way easier in a vice. Besides Jim will be along shortly to tell me I can just use the 2nd vice on the Haas Mini Mill 2.


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## derf (Nov 14, 2015)

Studied that picture , and kept asking myself, "Something in this picture is not right...  Then it hit me like a brick. She has all the bells and whistles, complete with lipstick and rouge and is purty as could be and clean as a pin.  OMG......she's a VIRGIN!


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## tmarks11 (Nov 15, 2015)

coolidge said:


> That's right made in the USA by God! $426.75 shipped to my door direct from Kurt with the Enco 25% off sale.


Pretty!

I bought one of those as well in the sale.  Free truck shipping plus 25% off made it time to buy.  It was waiting for me in my shopping cart when I logged in...  Unfortunately, I didn't think to add a set of keys to the order.

Unfortunately, apparently the truck driver stopped by your house first... my D688 hasn't shown up yet...


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## JimDawson (Nov 15, 2015)

coolidge said:


> Bob I have multiple through holes to drill plus facing, way easier in a vice. Besides Jim will be along shortly to tell me I can just use the 2nd vice on the Haas Mini Mill 2.




I would use both of them on the Haas, then you could buy another for the 935 

I just noticed there is no DRO on the 935 yet?  Going to need to correct that.


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## sanddan (Nov 15, 2015)

Wow, power feed on all three axis! Nice......


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## Eddyde (Nov 15, 2015)

Bob Korves said:


> Uh, maybe take your single vise off and mount the work to the table?  That is a a big investment for one job, and you may not need it again...


If you look in one of the pictures you can see a Backhoe in his garage, Never question the ways of a man with his own Backhoe, never


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## Dan_S (Nov 15, 2015)

That's a nice set up, but why didn't you save your money and just buy some machinist jacks?


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## coolidge (Nov 15, 2015)

I looked at machinist jacks, a 2nd Kurt vice is way faster and more versatile. You can't take it with you guys, what else am I going to spend my money on.


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## Dan_S (Nov 15, 2015)

coolidge said:


> You can't take it with you guys, what else am I going to spend my money on.



Many many things.   http://www.subtool.com/


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## 09kevin (Nov 15, 2015)

Nice vises! How close are they to being a matched set?


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## coolidge (Nov 16, 2015)

Kevin its funny you ask, I spent this evening dialing in the vices. I don't think the mill is accurate enough to measure Kurt vices one vs the other but here are the numbers. Measured using a Mitutoyo test indicator with a .0001 scale.

*Vice Bottom* - there are 4 flats total 2 for each vice so from left to right lets call them V1, V2, V3, and V4. V1 is the only one that varied, keep in mind when measuring V1 I have the table hanging way off the right side of the machine and the power feed is also hanging off that side so I'm attributing the .0005 to flex/weight especially since V2 was dead on after moving the table about 4 inches left. So basically the bottom of the vices are dead flat with each other.

V1 .0005
V2 .0000
V3 .0000
V4 .0000

*Vice Back Jaw* - First let me say I love the vice keys again, they put both vices within .0014 of parallel which made dialing them in so easy. Both vices are within .0002 of parallel with the X axis over 6 inches, I had one within .0001 at one point. In terms of alignment with each other not horrible but certainly room for improvement. First attempts resulted in Vice 1 being .004 off from Vice 2, positioned more towards the front of the machine. I removed that vice and scraped the paint off the inside of the T slot and was able to reduce this to .0025. Most likely if I removed the other vice and scraped the paint off its T slot I could probably get them within .001 to .0005 perhaps. A bit of lapping and I could probably get them spot on. Or I could just call it good for now and throw a shim in one vice if needed.

I have not measured front to back as yet, I want to redo the tram as I had not locked the knee when I trammed the machine nod.


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## dlane (Nov 16, 2015)

$ 426. For keys ?.


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## John Hasler (Nov 16, 2015)

dlane said:


> $ 426. For keys ?.


But they're *Kurt* keys.


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## coolidge (Nov 16, 2015)

dlane said:


> $ 426. For keys ?.



A set of Kurt vice keys were $22.32 on sale from Enco at 25% off.


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## JimDawson (Nov 16, 2015)

coolidge said:


> Besides Jim will be along shortly to tell me I can just use the 2nd vice on the Haas Mini Mill 2.




The real question is "Do these vises make my mill look small?''


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## Dan_S (Nov 16, 2015)

JimDawson said:


> The real question is "Do these vises make my mill look small?''



yep, should have gotten a 10x54!


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## tmarks11 (Nov 16, 2015)

Coolidge, you missed out here.

Think of it, you could have saved $22.32 if you had a surface grinder that you could whip up some precision vice keys on....

At least that is how my brain works.


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## JimDawson (Nov 16, 2015)

tmarks11 said:


> Coolidge, you missed out here.
> 
> Think of it, you could have saved $22.32 if you had a surface grinder that you could whip up some precision vice keys on....
> 
> At least that is how my brain works.



I could help out on that one, I do have a spare  And I deliver


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## tmarks11 (Nov 16, 2015)

...of course you do...



Will you throw in a free forklift with that?


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## dave2176 (Nov 16, 2015)

JimDawson said:


> I could help out on that one, I do have a spare  And I deliver



To Utah?


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## dave2176 (Nov 16, 2015)

Btw, that is one gorgeous mill.


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## coolidge (Nov 17, 2015)

dave2176 said:


> Btw, that is one gorgeous mill.



tyvm!


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## ARKnack (Nov 20, 2015)

coolidge said:


> I looked at machinist jacks, a 2nd Kurt vice is way faster and more versatile. You can't take it with you guys, what else am I going to spend my money on.



I don't have to worry about spending my money. The wife does it for me. In fact she's out shopping now. 

Nice looking mill. Don't let the hecklers get you. I have 2 Kurts also


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## coolidge (Nov 20, 2015)

Update: Enco is replacing the damaged magnetic jaw.


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## ARKnack (Nov 20, 2015)

coolidge said:


> Update: Enco is replacing the damaged magnetic jaw.


That's great to hear. I'm glad they stepped up. This just means we have to inspect our purchases closer when we receive them. Like you I don't like paying new prices for used stuff.


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## coolidge (Nov 22, 2015)

I have to say its ultra rare that I have any issue with Enco or their products, I'm happy to do business with them.


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## tmarks11 (Nov 25, 2015)

Well my Kurt D688 finally got to me.  Makes my Tormach 5" (Conquest Mini Magnum) look a bit puny:


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## coolidge (Nov 25, 2015)

tmarks11 I have a 3rd Kurt in my Enco shopping cart and I'm about to pull the trigger since the 25% off plus free shipping codes are still good. Plus a third set of magnetic vice jaws, a 3rd set of vice keys, and three sets of Teco vice hold downs. I dunno I may dump those and just buy a second full Teco hold down kit. I'm going to go shop around and see if there's anything else I need.


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## Eddyde (Nov 25, 2015)

Vise Vice


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## coolidge (Nov 26, 2015)

Scratch the 3rd vise idea.


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## dlane (Nov 27, 2015)

Just wondering what the holes in the speed handle end are for ?


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## chevydyl (Nov 27, 2015)

It's a 3/4 hex so you can get more leverage on the vise screw, right now he has them positioned for speed, then you swap to the outer hex to tighten it


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## coolidge (Nov 27, 2015)

Chevy nailed it, exactly correct. The Kurt's come with a giant steel wrench, so big you could put a death grip on something but I find these aluminum speed handles using the outer hex are all the leverage you need.


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## JimDawson (Nov 27, 2015)

coolidge said:


> Chevy nailed it, exactly correct. The Kurt's come with a giant steel wrench, so big you could put a death grip on something but I find these aluminum speed handles using the outer hex are all the leverage you need.



????? You don't need the 4 foot cheater bar??  Durn, I been do'in it all wrong


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## chevydyl (Nov 27, 2015)

I just use my 32oz dead blow... whack it till it stops


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## Bray D (Nov 28, 2015)

Any progress on the DRO project? I'm waiting to see this thing covered in chips!


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## coolidge (Nov 29, 2015)

Hey Bray the DRO install gets underway today finally. I pulled the 2nd vise last night, installed the new replacement magnetic jaws and machined about .002 off its set of Kurt vise keys so I could align the two vices parallel. I moved both vises in to the center of the table (I'll post why in my PM935 thread later). I got them aligned parallel within .0005 over 15 inches. There is up to .0003 variance in a single vise jaw as you measure across it, so .0005 is fantastic. As you measure across the 15 inches I see plus 2, then minus, two, plus 4, minus 3, etc. with .0005 being the largest variance.

DRO Update: I have been mocking things up on X while waiting for UPS to deliver various things. To recap I'm going to mount the X scale on the front of the table instead of the back, otherwise I would lose 1.5 inches of Y travel with it mounted on the rear and I likes me some Y travel.

I still want to maintain the table stops and limit switch. I don't want to drill holes in the table. So I'm machining a spacer to clear the table stops and limit switch, then bolting a length of 1/2 aluminum bar 2.5 inches wide to the spacers, and installing the scale and chip cover on the aluminum bar. The bar/scale/spacer assembly bolts on using a T nut in the front of the table thus avoiding drilling any holes in the table. I have the aluminum bar cut to length and will begin machining on it this morning.

This was my original design. I spent a few days mocking up an alternative which combined the table slots, limit switch, scale and read head all mounted to the aluminum bar, machining a T slot in the aluminum bar for the table stops, and mounting the aluminum bar flat right onto the front of the table via 3 T nuts. With the chip cover eating up about .5 inch it was just crammed too close together and the combo limit switch/DRO read head mount was going to be a pain at best. It wasn't worth re-inventing the wheel, I already have the mounts for the limit switch and the T slot for the table slots, moving the DRO scale assembly out in front of that via the spacers and keeping these two systems separate kept it simple.

This thing will have a case of cable-itus, limit switch cables * 3 plus DRO cables * 3 power power feed power cables * 3 its a bit of a hairball, TBD how well I can route them keeping them out of my way, harms way, and so they don't become a chip magnet.


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## coolidge (Nov 29, 2015)

09kevin said:


> Nice vises! How close are they to being a matched set?



By the way I noticed that Kurt advertises their vise beds to be matched within .0005 so I guess that's what they shoot for or better.


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## tmarks11 (Nov 29, 2015)

And here is my chance to get the vise keys I missed the first time around.

CYBER + MONDAY.  25% off and free shipping at Enco.


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## kd4gij (Dec 1, 2015)

I like this over magnetic jaws. It doesn't attract chips.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=949744&PMAKA=505-2235


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## coolidge (Dec 3, 2015)

Good point kd, I mostly machine aluminum and stainless so not much of an issue but I'll remember this when working with steel/cast iron.


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