# New To Me Craftsman 618 - Everything In Order?



## DaveBarbier (Feb 23, 2016)

Hi everyone! I got a Craftsman 618 (101.21400) off Craigslist a couple weeks ago. I posted an introduction and just finished building a bench for it out in my shed. 

I pretty much just wanted to get people's thoughts on what I have here. Anything missing, or looking out of place or damaged? I payed $375 for it and it came with about a half dozen more gears of various sizes, I think for threading. 

I plan on getting new belts but I'm finding it hard to find. Any resources? Forgive me, I searched a lot but couldn't find anything, maybe I just don't know how to look for these parts yet. I also plan on running it for a bit, making sure it's all good and then disassembling (not completely, but just enough) and cleaning and oiling. Maybe replacing the bearings but unsure if it's needed. 

Here are the pictures. Hope having this many isn't an issue for anyone. Thanks for the help!


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## 34_40 (Feb 23, 2016)

Nice lookin' unit.  I'm not much of the atlas / craftsman  lathe guy..  but as far as the belt, you should be able to look at or walk into any industrial supply house and ask for a 3/8" X 35"  ( I can read it in your picture!) belt.  I like using the Gates Green belts.  They are 1 tough piece.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Feb 23, 2016)

Looks good to me and a great price too! Looks about the same as mine when I got it, although I've been through everything once and I'm now working on a few different bushings. Clean everything up, oil it liberally and then work on each bit as and when you want. The tail stock is a good part to work on first - easy to disassemble, no scary gotchas and you can use the lathe without it 

The motor is a little on the weedy side, they came with 1/3-1/4hp motors I believe. The belts you want are 3L width (3L250 would be 25in long for example) and cheap as chips. I've bought some from USbearingsandbelts on ebay who has great prices and service. You can also get 3L link belt, which is what I currently have on mine as I was chasing down vibrations.


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## DaveBarbier (Feb 23, 2016)

Thanks guys! So, 1/3-1/4 HP motors, eh? This motor says 1/6! Any idea if the Century motor is the factory one? I have a spare 1/3 HP motor from an old bandsaw I could use if this is the wrong motor or just not powerful enough for a lathe.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Feb 23, 2016)

try it out first - the ability to reverse the motor is very handy at times, so as long as it lets you do the cuts you want, I'd leave it as is for now. Then again, if the 1/3hp bandsaw motor was just as smooth and was reversible, it wouldn't hurt to try it out either


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## DaveBarbier (Feb 23, 2016)

mattthemuppet said:


> try it out first - the ability to reverse the motor is very handy at times, so as long as it lets you do the cuts you want, I'd leave it as is for now. Then again, if the 1/3hp bandsaw motor was just as smooth and was reversible, it wouldn't hurt to try it out either



True, if it works for what I need, no reason to change it. I could see it being safer too, if something goes wrong like crashing a bit or something then I imagine a 1/3 HP motor could do more damage than a 1/6.

Thanks


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## mattthemuppet2 (Feb 23, 2016)

I wouldn't worry about that too much, your belts will slip before you do any damage. That and don't crash anything


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## A618fan2 (Feb 23, 2016)

That's a sweet 618 - and a great price too.  I think you'll enjoy it.

John


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## David VanNorman (Feb 24, 2016)

You did good for what you paid. That will get you started.


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## DaveBarbier (Feb 24, 2016)

Good to hear guys, thanks! Time to look for belts to order and then clean it up!


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## Bill Gruby (Feb 24, 2016)

I have one, you won't be sorry you got that one. The only change I made so far was to swap the belts for "Link Belts" don't have to move the spindle to change belts now. "Link Belts come in a 3L size.

 "Billy G"


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## wa5cab (Feb 24, 2016)

Dave,

Any industrial drive components supplier (belts, bearings, gearboxes, etc.) should have the belts.  The original motor belt is a 3L210 and the spindle belt is a 3L350.  The counter person will know what those numbers mean.  Some belt manufacturers put the industry number on their belts and some don't.

The "3" means 3/8" nominal belt width.  The "L" means Fractional Horsepower (don't ask me how they came up with "L" for that).  The three digits mean the circumference of the outside of the belt in tenths of an inch (I've never seen anything but "0" for the third digit).


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## Bill Gruby (Feb 24, 2016)

Dave;

 The main reason I changed the belts to link belts was that my lathe is older than yours and does not have the spindle bearings as yours does. The spindle on mine is bushed. I don't really want to disturb the fit by moving the spindle forward to change the belt.

 "Billy G"


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## CluelessNewB (Feb 24, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> (I've never seen anything but "0" for the third digit).



Rare but I have seen an occasional "5" in real life and "3" in catalogs.  Something I once owned used a 4L275 (maybe reverse belt for my rototiller) and McMaster Carr sells a 3L293

http://www.mcmaster.com/#6190k49/=119hyc5


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## DaveBarbier (Feb 24, 2016)

I like the idea of a link belt but would rather keep it looking somewhat original. I don't expect to be changing belts that often. Maybe a stupid thought, though. 

Thanks wa5cab for the info. I'll see what I can find near me.


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## wa5cab (Feb 24, 2016)

Rich,

Thanks.

Dave,

There are two schools of thought on link-belts versus V-belts.  Some claims no doubt stem from comparing a 70 year old V-belt to a new link-belt.  The big advantage (and one of two official reasons or benefits listed by the original inventer) is that machine down time for an emergency belt change is minimized.  Also true from a hobbiest's perspective (i.e., you do not have to pull the spindle and in some cases back gears and countershaft in order to change the spindle belt).  

The other advantage is not really applicable to us.  In a large factory with many machines using a large variety of sizes and lengths of belts, instead of the warehouse stocking at least one of every belt used in the plant, you stock enough links to repair any machine or maybe any five machines in the plant.  When a belt breaks, you draw the necessary number and size of links to replace that belt, and the next day, Purchasing orders a new belt.  When the new belt is installed, the links are returned to inventory.  

The disadvantages are that link belts stretch at least when relatively new, they are more prone to slippage because there isn't as much material in contact with the pulleys, and they are not reversible.  Someone can always find an exception but in general they are more expensive unless you buy them from Harbor Freight.

All that being said, use whichever you want to use.  Aside from the reversing issue (which may or may not be applicable), they will both work.


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## Bill Gruby (Feb 24, 2016)

Robert;

 A link belt in itself will not stretch. What happens is the tabs that are linked together will "seat" in their mating holes. Once this has occurred the belt will remain that size. I have had a link belt on my table saw for over 20 years now. I took it off and measured it today. It is .122 longer than it originally was. If it seast a lot, say .250, just shorten it by 1 link. Try that with a stretched "V Belt".

 "Billy G"


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## wa5cab (Feb 24, 2016)

OK.  I didn't give the mechanism (didn't actually know it), merely the reported results.  I have seen several posts either here (meaning H-M, not necessarily this forum) or elsewhere that reported needing to remove a link after a running in period.  Certainly not a major problem.

V-belts stretch only when the inelastic cording begins to break up.  How long that takes depends upon a lot of variables but is an indication of end-of-life.  If not overloaded, maybe 35 to 50 years of intermittent service based on various machines here, most of which still have their original belts.


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## westsailpat (Feb 25, 2016)

Nice score Dave , I have one too but mine is the bushed spindle model 101 07301 (older) .
If you are still looking for a belt here is a link (belt) pun intended .
https://jet.com/product/detail/718f...d=403-489560&gclid=CPK0q6CGissCFQYuaQodxBUN7g


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## DaveBarbier (Feb 25, 2016)

Thanks West, I'll bookmark this for later. I actually ordered two belts (motor and spindle) for about $9 total off eBay. Should be here middle of next week. I'm doing the traditional belt first because I did want to do a little disassembly and cleaning before any machining. If it proves to be a bear then I'll get this link belt. I rebuild old Honda motorcycles and am familiar and comfortable with pressing out steering head bearings so I'm not too concerned.

Not sure if I should make a new thread for this next question but it's along the same line regarding things I'm missing... So I realized that I don't have a chuck key. This is a Bison 3200 series 4" chuck and the key hole is 9mm or .354"...23/64ths would do it too. I'm seeing a few keys on eBay for fairly cheap but these Bison ones are like $45! Can I make one with some square stock and weld a handle on it? Or are there better resources for chuck keys than eBay? How snug does a key need to fit? Can I get one smaller like 5/16"? I'm asking because I see one on eBay for $13. 

Thanks everyone!


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## TLW (Feb 26, 2016)

DaveBarbier said:


> Thanks West, I'll bookmark this for later. I actually ordered two belts (motor and spindle) for about $9 total off eBay. Should be here middle of next week. I'm doing the traditional belt first because I did want to do a little disassembly and cleaning before any machining. If it proves to be a bear then I'll get this link belt. I rebuild old Honda motorcycles and am familiar and comfortable with pressing out steering head bearings so I'm not too concerned.
> 
> Not sure if I should make a new thread for this next question but it's along the same line regarding things I'm missing... So I realized that I don't have a chuck key. This is a Bison 3200 series 4" chuck and the key hole is 9mm or .354"...23/64ths would do it too. I'm seeing a few keys on eBay for fairly cheap but these Bison ones are like $45! Can I make one with some square stock and weld a handle on it? Or are there better resources for chuck keys than eBay? How snug does a key need to fit? Can I get one smaller like 5/16"? I'm asking because I see one on eBay for $13.
> 
> Thanks everyone!




Dave,
   A chuck key can be easily made right in your shop. As a matter of fact I need to make two of them this week for my 4 jaw. I found some key stock in the hardware store and plan to just drill a hole into the end of a suitable piece of rnd. stock slide the key stock in and tighten it with a set screw that if flush or recessed so your hand does not rub on it. Then drill a hole at the top, add a piece or smaller round stock for a handle and squash the ends so it stays captured. How fancy or pretty you make it up to you.

Tim


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## DaveBarbier (Feb 26, 2016)

TLW said:


> Dave,
> A chuck key can be easily made right in your shop. As a matter of fact I need to make two of them this week for my 4 jaw. I found some key stock in the hardware store and plan to just drill a hole into the end of a suitable piece of rnd. stock slide the key stock in and tighten it with a set screw that if flush or recessed so your hand does not rub on it. Then drill a hole at the top, add a piece or smaller round stock for a handle and squash the ends so it stays captured. How fancy or pretty you make it up to you.
> 
> Tim



Thanks Tim, I'll give that a go.


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## wa5cab (Feb 26, 2016)

Dave,

I wouldn't risk using an undersized key.  I'm not familiar with Bison chucks but if they are actually built to metric dimensions, have you looked for a generic 9mm one?  Looking at McMaster, they only list inch sizes.  And their prices for a standard are around $20.  $45 for the self ejecting, which I never use, anyway.  You could buy a 3/8" and grind it down to 9mm.  Or check with Enco.  They may have metric sizes.


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## westsailpat (Feb 26, 2016)

Of course you can make your own , just as you stated , as for snugness IMO it shouldn't have to much backlash , but you shouldn't have to push it in either .


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## DaveBarbier (Feb 26, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> Dave,
> 
> I wouldn't risk using an undersized key.  I'm not familiar with Bison chucks but if they are actually built to metric dimensions, have you looked for a generic 9mm one?  Looking at McMaster, they only list inch sizes.  And their prices for a standard are around $20.  $45 for the self ejecting, which I never use, anyway.  You could buy a 3/8" and grind it down to 9mm.  Or check with Enco.  They may have metric sizes.



I think they're in standard measurements because it says it's a 4" chuck. But the chuck key hole is very close to 9mm exactly and the closets imperial size is something like 23/64" and I couldn't find anything with that measurement aside from a Bison supplier. I looked for 9mm too and there's very little out there. I do like the idea of either making one or grinding down a 3/8". I see those for about $17. Maybe cheaper if I spend a few more minutes searching. 

I'm learning a lot! My next question will be lubrication but I'm doing research first. Looks like I'll need three things, way oil, gear oil and spindle oil. I'll come back with products just for you guys to sign off on before I pull the trigger 

Thanks!


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## DaveBarbier (Feb 26, 2016)

Ok guys, looks like the lubrication triple threat is going to be:

Lubriplate Gear Shield Extra Heavy Aerosol (for the gears in the spindle and gear box only)

Mobile Vactra #2 Way Oil (for the ways and cross feed ways only)

Mobile Velocite 10 spindle oil (everything else which includes all bearing cups and little various oiling holes in lathe and motor)

Anything wrong with those three? I've seen people talk about the Mobile products a lot and for a gallon they're under $20 each from Enco. The Lubriplate product I saw a few passionate people talking about it and it was an easy find and doesn't seem too expensive. 

Note: I'm not sure what this thread has turned into. Let me know if I should have made new posts for each or if I should change the title.


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## wa5cab (Feb 27, 2016)

I didn't look it up to see what the viscosity of Velocite 10 is but the oil for everything else should be SAE 20/ISO 68 equivalent.  I use Mobile Heavy Medium Circulating Oil, also available from Enco.  I've been using a Lubriplate white grease for the gears for so long that I can no longer read the number on the can.    I'll have to look into the aerosol.  Would certainly be less trouble to apply.

As far as the thread title goes, and breaking it up into several different threads, you started the thread.  And most comments have been at least pertinent to the original subject.  So I wouldn't worry about it.


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## dmakseyn (Feb 27, 2016)

Hi Dave,
I have the exact same lathe! I bought it out of a shop that burned to the ground in 1981. The owner rarely used the machine  so it was covered with a tarp and escaped any real damage from the fire. I paid $75! It did not, however, escape the water which caused the little guy to be covered with rust. I spent the next few months on and off rebuilding the lathe but the motor was beyond repair. I replaced it with a DC motor from a treadmill and using a PWM controller I now have a very nice variable speed lathe. During the rebuild I bought various parts and tooling for the lathe and I now have quite a wonderful model making machine. The cross slide leadscrew was badly worn so a friend helped me make a new unit with a 2" dial and a 20 TPI screw so now it's a direct read cross slide. Very handy and much more accurate than the micro dial from the original. If you need a tool post with tool holders or other small bits and pieces feel free to ask and I'll see what I can help you with. I also found someone on ebay selling the operating manuals and info on the gearing to do thread cutting. I probably use the lathe at least once a week and it still puts out very nice work and it's a lot of fun to use.
Good luck with your machine. Do I smell fresh paint?
Regards,
Dave


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## DaveBarbier (Feb 27, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> I didn't look it up to see what the viscosity of Velocite 10 is but the oil for everything else should be SAE 20/ISO 68 equivalent.  I use Mobile Heavy Medium Circulating Oil, also available from Enco.



SAE 20? Interesting, my Operating Instructions says SAE 10 Motor Oil which equates to 22-32 ISO. The Velocite is ISO 22. Yes, it's on the low end of the scale but it seems to be just what Mr. Craftsman would want. Oil threads with machining are just as confusing and polarizing as the 70's motorcycle oil threads!

I've attached a picture of the Lubrication Chart for the 101.21400. Hope it can be read. 



Now, one thing I've learned from my old motorcycle forums is that old oil used to contain zinc. Car and motorcycle oils now-a-days don't have that any more for emissions purposes so we add zinc to the oil or use specific oils with a high zinc content. Any talk of adding zinc to match more closely what they had back when these lathes were made?



wa5cab said:


> I've been using a Lubriplate white grease for the gears for so long that I can no longer read the number on the can.    I'll have to look into the aerosol.  Would certainly be less trouble to apply.



I hear this stuff (or any heavy open gear grease for that matter) is super tacky and messy, haha. I can't wait!l


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## DaveBarbier (Feb 27, 2016)

dmakseyn said:


> Hi Dave,
> I have the exact same lathe! I bought it out of a shop that burned to the ground in 1981. The owner rarely used the machine  so it was covered with a tarp and escaped any real damage from the fire. I paid $75! It did not, however, escape the water which caused the little guy to be covered with rust. I spent the next few months on and off rebuilding the lathe but the motor was beyond repair. I replaced it with a DC motor from a treadmill and using a PWM controller I now have a very nice variable speed lathe. During the rebuild I bought various parts and tooling for the lathe and I now have quite a wonderful model making machine. The cross slide leadscrew was badly worn so a friend helped me make a new unit with a 2" dial and a 20 TPI screw so now it's a direct read cross slide. Very handy and much more accurate than the micro dial from the original. If you need a tool post with tool holders or other small bits and pieces feel free to ask and I'll see what I can help you with. I also found someone on ebay selling the operating manuals and info on the gearing to do thread cutting. I probably use the lathe at least once a week and it still puts out very nice work and it's a lot of fun to use.
> Good luck with your machine. Do I smell fresh paint?
> Regards,
> Dave



Thanks Dmakseyn, interesting stuff. And NO, you don't smell fresh paint, haha. I like it the way it is, the patina is beautiful!


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## LeakyCanoe (Feb 27, 2016)

hi Dave,

Over on the OWWM/Vintage Machinery site there is lots of original detail from the manufacturer (Atlas) on that lathe uploaded (manuals, technical specs, parts breakdowns, bulletins, etc.) that you can download for free and print off.  

         Here's a link:   http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=51&tab=3


Good luck with yours and have fun...you bought well IMO, and will have no problem moving it along if you later decide to kick it up another level.


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## DaveBarbier (Feb 27, 2016)

Thanks LeakyCanoe, checking that link out now.


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## wa5cab (Feb 27, 2016)

Dave,

Around 1960 or so, Atlas changed the oil recommendation from SAE 10 to SAE 20 retroactive.  Any straight non-detergent SAE 20 (or ISO 68) should work fine.

When you get enough posts to have access (30 and promoted to ACTIVE MEMBER) or if you make a donation to the site, the Atlas/Craftsman/AA Category of DOWNLOADS  contains a lot (currently 108 I think) of manuals, parts lists, drawings, catalogs & etc.  on the Atlas or Atlas/Craftsman machines.  Many of these that were found elsewhere have been cleaned, straightened and/or corrected and are easier to read than the source documents.


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## DaveBarbier (Feb 27, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> Dave,
> 
> Around 1960 or so, Atlas changed the oil recommendation from SAE 10 to SAE 20 retroactive.  Any straight non-detergent SAE 20 (or ISO 68) should work fine.
> 
> When you get enough posts to have access (30 and promoted to ACTIVE MEMBER) or if you make a donation to the site, the Atlas/Craftsman/AA Category of DOWNLOADS  contains a lot (currently 108 I think) of manuals, parts lists, drawings, catalogs & etc.  on the Atlas or Atlas/Craftsman machines.  Many of these that were found elsewhere have been cleaned, straightened and/or corrected and are easier to read than the source documents.



Ah, interesting, thanks for that info. Looks like I'll check out that oil you recommended from Enco. 

And thanks for the manual/parts list tip, that's pretty cool.


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## DaveBarbier (Feb 27, 2016)

Wa5cab,

I was looking around Enco and I don't see anything with all those keywords "Mobile Heavy Medium Circulating Oil". I did find this however, which I have hunch is what you're talking about. Heavy Medium ISO 68.
http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/45207-1...lized-hydraulic-fluid-dte-26-machine-oil.html

Just want to make sure I'm getting the right stuff. There are soooo many oils!


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## wa5cab (Feb 28, 2016)

The Enco site appears to be down at the moment.  I'll look at it tomorrow or whenever they come back up.


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## DaveBarbier (Feb 28, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> The Enco site appears to be down at the moment.  I'll look at it tomorrow or whenever they come back up.



Sounds good thanks.


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## wa5cab (Feb 28, 2016)

DTE26 is what I have.  Mobile has apparently slightly edited what they print on the jug since I bought it last.  Cost has also gone up about $5.


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## DaveBarbier (Feb 28, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> DTE26 is what I have.  Mobile has apparently slightly edited what they print on the jug since I bought it last.  Cost has also gone up about $5.



Beautiful, thanks a lot


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