# Wrong Rpm Motor On My Wards Version Logan 200



## bama7

After reading several articles and manuals for the Model 200, I need some help.  Apparently the PO changed motors on my lathe.  The manual calls for a 1/2 hp with 1725 rp m.  The motor installed is a 3/4 hp with 3450 rpm.  It is an old Craftsman motor and it runs good.   Can you still cut threads correctly with the listed gears using the 3450 rpm motor or do I need to change to a 1725 rpm motor?


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## cds4yu

The motor does not affect the thread pitch, so the listed gears will still be correct.

However, the spindle speed will be twice what you would get with the 1725 rpm motor.  That may be an issue, since most people cut threads at a pretty low spindle speed.


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## bama7

cds4yu said:


> The motor does not affect the thread pitch, so the listed gears will still be correct.
> 
> However, the spindle speed will be twice what you would get with the 1725 rpm motor.  That may be an issue, since most people cut threads at a pretty low spindle speed.


THAT MAKES ME HAPPY!!!  I was more concerned the speed may cause a problem with the travel when cutting threads.  It sounds more like developing an ability to start and stop more quickly.  Thanks for the information.


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## Rex Walters

I'm no expert, but it seems like you'll be spending a lot of time in back gears unless you do something about RPMs being doubled. I'd consider either acquiring a slower motor, adding an additional drive stage/countershaft with 2:1 pulley/gearing reduction from the motor shaft, or replacing existing pulleys on the motor-spindle/countershaft (in order of increasing difficulty). A second stage countershaft (gear or pulley driven) might be a fun little project.

As others have said, threading doesn't depend on motor speed. The carriage advances as the spindle rotates, each rotation moves it a fixed amount (no matter how quickly each rotation occurs). The gearing ratios (configured with change gears) determine the "fixed amount." You'll have limited time to disengage the carriage feed and retract the cutter after each pass, though, which usually means adjusting belts for pretty slow speeds. I've always been able to avoid back gears for threading (I've never threaded anything with a very large diameter) but with a 2x speed motor you may be forced to.
-- 
Rex


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## 4GSR

Just have to be fast on the half nuts at the higher RPM's...Threading.


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## Ed ke6bnl

can you reduce the size of the pulley on the motor


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## bama7

Ed ke6bnl said:


> can you reduce the size of the pulley on the motor


I just got a set of original two step pulleys yesterday in the mail.  I did not measure the pulleys that were on the lathe because they were single step.  My main goal for this lathe is to have it working correctly without spending too much more money.  As far as using the backgears to slow the rpms down to thread I don't think that would create a problem, would it?  This is more of a project that is almost complete.  I have a Logan 1825 for my next project.  It has the QCGB and is the one I expect to take me to the rapture.


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## cds4yu

Personally, I like threading in back gear.  I'm not sure why others want to stay away from back gear.


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## francist

I'm not familiar with the speed range on the Logan nor do I have a great confidence in my single-pointing abilities, but if you are running a motor that gives you twice the design speed not only will you experience faster low-end but your top end rpm's may be dangerously fast. I'd look at that as well, not just your low range, to decide if you want to continue to run that 3450.

-frank


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## David VanNorman

If you have the original.  counter shaft assembly you will best find a 1725 motor . The lathe is made for a 1725 . Everything will be too fast.


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## bama7

I ordered one of the non-contact digital laser photo tachometers the other day.  I plan to check the rpm readings at different places and check to make sure I don't break something.


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## wa5cab

Put the proper motor on it.  Or take it off and sell it without the motor.


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## bama7

wa5cab said:


> Put the proper motor on it.  Or take it off and sell it without the motor.


I am hoping to find one locally and make a trade or sell mine to purchase the correct motor.  Ebay has several, but the shipping charges are high.  I need to search for a local electrical repair shop to see what they have.  I don't use the lathe at the moment so there is no worry about tearing it up, except when I break something trying to fix it.


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## rdean

I will look see if I have a used one in the shop.
What frame size, shaft size, Mount do you have?
Ray


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## Mister Ed

Just go to Grizzly and order one of the Chicom (gasp) motors in the correct configuration. I did the same a while back and that was one of the better $75-$100purchases I made.


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## eeler1

Aren't chucks rated for certain speed ranges?  wonder what happens if run too fast?


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## bama7

rdean said:


> I will look see if I have a used one in the shop.
> What frame size, shaft size, Mount do you have?
> Ray


It is a cradle style mount 9 1/4" between the end brackets.  The shaft is 5/8", but 3/4" is okay.  My pulley is 3/4, but I have a slotted bushing to make it fit my shaft. I appreciate the help.


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## rdean

Sorry I didn't have any capacitor start motors and you would want that on the lathe.
Shouldn't be hard to find as it appears to be a 56 frame motor.

Ray


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## bama7

rdean said:


> Sorry I didn't have any capacitor start motors and you would want that on the lathe.
> Shouldn't be hard to find as it appears to be a 56 frame motor.
> 
> Ray


Thanks for looking.  I think I will put it on a barter listing on craigslist.  What designates it as a 56 frame motor?


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## CluelessNewB

Here is a table of motor frame dimensions:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/nema-electrical-motor-frame-dimensions-d_1504.html

This table also includes metric sizes, scroll down for the nema 56 frame:
http://www.leeson.com/Literature/pdf/1050/MotorDimensions.pdf


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## bama7

Thank you.


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## wa5cab

The Frame Size should also be on the motor nameplate.  One spec for the 56 frame is a 5/8" dia. spindle.  It also specifies the case diameter, that it has a saddle type mount on the side, and what the mounting hole pattern is.I don't recall whether in the case of the motor being capacitor start it specifies where the capacitor is (top or side).


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## bama7

Is there anyway to lower the rpm to 1725 by adding an electrical device internally or externally?  Please keep in mind I know almost nothing about electricity.


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## Ulma Doctor

hi Bama,
your best bet is to see if you could get a smaller pulley(1/2 of the size on the motor now), the motor would spin more times per minute- giving the desired speed.


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## wa5cab

Bama,

There isn't any economically practical way to run a 3450 RPM single phase capacitor start motor at half speed.  I don't know what section motor belt it has but it's unlikely that the motor pulley is large enough that one half that diameter wouldn't be too small for the belt.  You might get away with putting the smallest rated pulley on the motor and putting a larger one on the countershaft.  But as I think that I already said, your best course of action is to put the correct motor on it.


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## Mister Ed

Isn't that pulley on the motor a step pulley, like the similar Logans?? I do not think you will find a pulley with 1/2 the circumference. And unless you find a step both 1/2 original ... you will loose 1/2 of your speeds. Get the proper motor and set it up correctly.


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## bama7

I think I have been convinced to go with the correct rpm motor.  I checked Grizzly today and I can get a 3/4 hp shipped for around $130.  I will be posting on local, Jacksonville, Fl Craigslist, a trade or purchase for a 1725 rpm motor.  Thanks for the education and advice.


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## Mister Ed

I think that is the smart way to go ... can you tell?  Either a 1/2 or 3/4. The 1/2 is plenty, the belts will slip before it has issues.  I have taken way deeper cuts than in should have in 1144 without issue (1/2 hp Grizzly motor).


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## cds4yu

Harbor Freight has a 1/2 hp for $110.  http://www.harborfreight.com/engine...-hp-general-purpose-electric-motor-67839.html


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## A618fan2

I think you'd be wise to follow the advice above and swap or at least remove the motor.  A lathe designed to run at 2000 max rpm might object, violently, to 4000.   The next owner might not be as inquisitive about what's correct for the lathe and could wind up injuring himself or others.  The frame type is usually listed on the motor tag and I've found used 1/2hp 56 frame motors regularly in the $15-20 range.


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## bama7

https://web.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/?auth=co&loc=en_US&id=870611&part=3


A618fan2 said:


> I think you'd be wise to follow the advice above and swap or at least remove the motor.  A lathe designed to run at 2000 max rpm might object, violently, to 4000.   The next owner might not be as inquisitive about what's correct for the lathe and could wind up injuring himself or others.  The frame type is usually listed on the motor tag and I've found used 1/2hp 56 frame motors regularly in the $15-20 range.


I listed my need for a motor on the Jacksonville Craigslist.  I found a motor for $40.00 that may do the job.  I hope to talk to the guy in the morning.  My link for the picture is at the top of the post, for some reason.


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## wa5cab

Link returns an error.


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## bama7

Hopefully this will work.  I want to see the motor without the pump housing attached before I make a decision.  Would like to get the deal done today.


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## wa5cab

That works.  Like you, I can't tell from the photo how the flange adapter is attached to the motor.


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## Ulma Doctor

the motor is a cradle mount 56 frame, the pump mount is integral to the cradle.


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## bama7

I was watching some youtube stuff today about dc motor conversions on a drill press.  I went and looked at my old Craftsman drill press, and low and behold it has the motor I need.  It is now loosely attached to the lathe!  I can now take my time attaching my 3/4 hp motor or locating another 1725 rpm motor or maybe even a dc conversion on the drill press.  It is Thanksgiving !


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## MBfrontier

I agree that a 1725 RPM motor is the best solution.

I installed the 3/4 HP 1725 RPM Grizzly Motor on my Logan 200 Lathe.

http://grizzly.com/products/Motor-3-4-HP-Single-Phase-1725-RPM-TEFC-110V-220V/G2530

I have been running since April and so far, so good.

Here's a picture of it on my lathe:


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## bama7

Nice looking piece of machinery.  I have another question about the Model 200 and the Wards version.  In pictures I have seen of the Logan 200 it appears they have forward and reverse, but the pictures of the Wards version only show the switch with on/off with no apparent reverse switch position.  Is this correct and if so does anyone know why?  Happy New Year and a belated Merry Christmas.


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## MBfrontier

My Logan 200 originally had a forward-off-reverse toggle switch mounted on a plate on the headstock as in the following picture:



Today, it has an on/off switch in that location and forward/reverse is handle via a drum switch.


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## bama7

Wanna get rid of the plate?


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## MBfrontier

No, that's where the on/off toggle switch is mounted.


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