# Small mill



## Submachine (Jun 16, 2019)

I have limited ability to move a Bridgeport into my basement.  I want the most powerful and feature rich small mill that I can get into my basement.  Basement is a walkout, so no stairs.  I found this 2HP model.  Thoughts?


Midas MI-409MZ Metal Mill





						Benchtop Milling Machine | Smithy - MI-409MZ Milling Machine
					

Benchtop Milling Machine | Smithy - MI-409MZ Milling Machine - Rugged Gear Driven Mill with Power - Smithy Quality - 2 Year Warranty - Best Product Support




					smithy.com


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## Ed ke6bnl (Jun 16, 2019)

Check out Burke Millrite


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## wrmiller (Jun 16, 2019)

The folks here my need a little better definition of what you consider "most powerful and feature rich". 

You might get a better warranty and customer support with this: https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-940m/


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## Nogoingback (Jun 16, 2019)

A few more questions:

What's the budget?
Are you only looking at bench top machines?
Would you consider second hand machines, or do you want to buy new?


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## Submachine (Jun 16, 2019)

Budget is max of $5000, but I would prefer a used machine for under $2000.  Hard for me to quantize what I need when I am fairly new to this.  I can tell you I cut mostly steel and I would like to be able to drill a 1 inch hole easily in mild steel.  Not looking for solely benchtops, but I need to be able to wrestle it down a hill and into basement.  Most powerful for example would be a 2 horse motor.  Feature reach would be include all axis power drive and DRO.


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## ThinWoodsman (Jun 16, 2019)

Sounds like you won't have a hard time getting a knee mill (like a Bridgeport) into the basement. Set aside about a grand for hiring riggers and make them deal with it. When dealing with steel, you'll be glad for the extra mass.


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## Submachine (Jun 16, 2019)

ThinWoodsman said:


> Sounds like you won't have a hard time getting a knee mill (like a Bridgeport) into the basement. Set aside about a grand for hiring riggers and make them deal with it. When dealing with steel, you'll be glad for the extra mass.



what type of Bridgeport I should be looking for?   I.e. specific models


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## ThinWoodsman (Jun 16, 2019)

A J-head Series I should cost around 2k (hopefully less) used for the basic mill and would do the job. Working DRO and axis feeds will bump it up to the 3-5k range, though you can always add those later to save money now. If your 5k is a hard max, then new knee mills are out of the question (see PM's offerings).


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## Mitch Alsup (Jun 16, 2019)

ThinWoodsman said:


> Set aside about a grand for hiring riggers and make them deal with it.



This, transporting heavy equipment done stairs is a job for professionals.


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## markba633csi (Jun 16, 2019)

I'm sure the Smithy would do the job but it's limited in terms of vertical (Z) travel.  It's a bit expensive for what you get, but I have heard good things about Smithy's service after the sale even on older machines, just hold back some money for collets and stuff
Mark


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## Nogoingback (Jun 17, 2019)

Another option would be a Clausing 8530 or a Rockwell 21-100.  Both are good mills, though smaller than a Bridgeport.
Just have to find one.


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## rwm (Jun 17, 2019)

I know where there is a very nice Clausing in PA. The only issue with that mill is it has either a MT2 or B&S taper. Not R8

BTW that Rockwell is gorgeous! Is it for sale?

Robert


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## Nogoingback (Jun 17, 2019)

Just a pic I grabbed off the internet.


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## bob308 (Jun 17, 2019)

if it does not have a knee. it is not a mill just a glorified drill press. I have a 8520  it has the number 2 mt. have been using it for 30 years with no problem. you can still get the collects from msc  I also have a enco 8x42 mill . I helped a friend get a Rockwell


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## shooter123456 (Jun 17, 2019)

bob308 said:


> if it does not have a knee. it is not a mill just a glorified drill press. I have a 8520  it has the number 2 mt. have been using it for 30 years with no problem. you can still get the collects from msc  I also have a enco 8x42 mill . I helped a friend get a Rockwell


Say what now?  Z axis movement from a knee is required for something to be a milling machine?  Does that mean nearly all industrial CNC mills are actually glorified CNC drill presses?  

That's a rather ignorant statement that isn't really helpful.


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## T Bredehoft (Jun 17, 2019)

shooter123456 said:


> That's a rather ignorant statement that isn't really helpful.



Gently, Shooter, Gently, this is a friendly place.


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## MikeInOr (Jun 17, 2019)

bob308 said:


> if it does not have a knee. it is not a mill just a glorified drill press. I have a 8520  it has the number 2 mt. have been using it for 30 years with no problem. you can still get the collects from msc  I also have a enco 8x42 mill . I helped a friend get a Rockwell



One of my requirements for purchasing a mill is that it have a knee.  The semantics of what you call a machine is irrelevant to me... I wanted the functionality and rigidity afforded by a machine that has a knee.




I do not believe I would be happy with the functionality of the mill the OP posted a link to... but everyone has their own needs and requirements.  I do respectfully agree that demeaning the mill that a person has chosen by calling it a drill press isn't very productive.


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## MikeInOr (Jun 17, 2019)

Submachine said:


> I have limited ability to move a Bridgeport into my basement.  I want the most powerful and feature rich small mill that I can get into my basement.  Basement is a walkout, so no stairs.  I found this 2HP model.  Thoughts?
> 
> 
> Midas MI-409MZ Metal Mill
> ...



Is backing a trailer up to your shop door a possibility?


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## Submachine (Jun 18, 2019)

I like these machines (clausing and Rockwell) but I have heard the Rockwell is really tough to get.  I passed on one two years ago, but they were asking 3k.


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## Submachine (Jun 18, 2019)

MikeInOr said:


> Is backing a trailer up to your shop door a possibility?



Not an option.   The house does have a inclined sidewalk that runs along the side of house to the basement door.


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## Bob Korves (Jun 18, 2019)

This thread is missing the most important information -- what do you plan to do and make with the mill?  All we know is a 1" hole in steel, which is a challenge for smaller bench mills.  If you will be doing light work on aluminum for model engines and such, you will have a much different need than if you want to mill bigger chunks of cast iron and steel.  A small to medium sized knee mill can be disassembled to table, knee, column, ram, and head pretty easily, then put back together in place.  The parts would still need to be wrestled into place, but if you can walk through the entrance, you can move the parts.  If you only need a light mill, then go that direction, though I find light bench mills frustrating due to lack of rigidity.  Good work on hard metals of any real size takes rigidity and power or it rapidly becomes tedious and maddening.  I have a Burke Millrite (like a 3/4 size Bridgeport), and am totally satisfied with it for what I do, but I also have easy access to a 3 car garage that still has room for one car.  YMMV.


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## MikeInOr (Jun 18, 2019)

Submachine said:


> Not an option.   The house does have a inclined sidewalk that runs along the side of house to the basement door.



Hmmm... That doesn't sound very pallet truck friendly.  Would you feel comfortable with removing the head on a small knee mill to lighten the weight and make it less top heavy?  The Husky mill I posted the picture of is about 1100lbs, remove the head and the base isn't really hand truck movable but it is getting close.

I have found over the years that moving heavy machines is usually more about brains than brawn.  Could a forklift make it from your driveway to your basement shop?

Maybe that mill will be fine for you... but my hunch is that you will be wishing for bigger pretty quickly.  Like Bob said, a lot depends on what you want to do with the mill... I, like most I believe, purchased my mill before I really knew what I wanted to do with it and just went for the biggest mill I could handle.  I am guessing you are in the same boat?


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## matthewsx (Jun 18, 2019)

When I shut down my shop five years ago I thought I couldn't move my Gorton 1-22 into the garage where I live. Now I'm kicking myself for not figuring out a way. If you have the physical space for a full size mill I suspect you'll be happy if you go that direction. 

John


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## Firstgear (Jun 18, 2019)

You might consider contacting some riggers that move and position this kind of equipment.  You might be surprised that they can get it into the basement relatively easy with the right equipment and experience.

The Smithy you have selected above looks capable.  Just for comparison sake, you should look at Precision Matthews offering.  At any rate what ever you select you will want a square column (if not a knee mill) for rigidity.

What ever you spend on the mill, realize that you will spend at least 50% more for tooling.  I bought a Precision Matthews mill and lathe and after buying my tooling I have spent enough for one more whole machine.  Did I need all that now?  No, but I bought what I thought I would need as I didn’t want to wait for tooling to show up if I was in the middle of something.

Good luck!


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## ThinWoodsman (Jun 18, 2019)

Also, you can reduce costs quite a bit by getting the mill to your driveway and then having the riggers just move it from there into the basement. You're basically paying these guys by the mile, so having them haul *and* position runs the cost up.


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## Firstgear (Jun 18, 2019)

ThinWoodsman said:


> Also, you can reduce costs quite a bit by getting the mill to your driveway and then having the riggers just move it from there into the basement. You're basically paying these guys by the mile, so having them haul *and* position runs the cost up.


Remember everything is negotiable.....


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## rakort (Jun 18, 2019)

Well I have a mill similar to the one pictured.  My two boys and I got it down the basement (5 steps) in pieces.  I paid $500 for it too boot 
I love the mill.  I think an important feature for this class mill is a riser block for the head which mine had luckly.  




As found


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## pstemari (Jun 18, 2019)

MikeInOr said:


> One of my requirements for purchasing a mill is that it have a knee. The semantics of what you call a machine is irrelevant to me... I wanted the functionality and rigidity afforded by a machine that has a knee.



??? 

A bed mill will always be more rigid than a knee mill, all other things being equal. It just comes down to geometry. Knee mills like the table in the air and balance it on a cantilever out from the column. Bed mills have the table and saddle down on the mounting surface, and can be supported easily at all ends.

The ability to reorient the head on a knee mill is useful, but reduces rigidity. I've also seen bed mills with fixed columns and tilting heads, for much the same effect.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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