# PM 5C Collet Chuck review



## Ischgl99 (Jan 29, 2022)

I purchased a 5C collet chuck from Precision Matthews last month and thought I would write up a quick review for anyone considering it.  Overall it is a nice chuck, the set thru feature is nice to have, but mine needed some work to operate smoothly.  I don't know if this is indicative of these chucks, or if I had a Monday morning production unit.  This chuck is the one with a D1-4 mounting plate.

When I first installed it, I was having difficulty getting the runout lower than 0.001".  I removed the mounting plate to inspect it and noticed the counterbores for the pin screws had very little clearance and the edges were sharp.  I placed it on my surface place and it was not parallel due to some raised edges, a light sanding on the surface plate removed that and the mounting plate was now much better.

When turning the pinion gear, there was a lot of roughness, so I disassembled the chuck and was surprised at the poor quality machining on the back surface and the holes for the pinion.  The back surface does not matter to the operation of the chuck, but it looks like a broken insert was used.  The front surface and bore for the scroll plate was ground to a nice finish, and everything fit well there.  I found a burr from the locating pin for one of the pinions that was rubbing against the gear teeth and causing the roughness I experienced.  











While disassembling the chuck, I noticed the location of one of the push off holes was located at a pinion gear.  To separate the chuck halves without cocking it, you need all three.  It seems strange to place it there, but I guess they could not fit it elsewhere.  Next time I open this up I will try removing the pinion gears first and then use a rod of the right diameter in the holes to push off against.  The threads for the push off holes were poor quality and damaged the M6 screws while separating the chuck body halves.  I retapped them and the replacement screws go in there much better.




The collets from PM work well in this chuck, I bought a metric set, but needed a 3/8" collet and decided to try a Lyndex collet.  The Lyndex collet is a higher quality than the Chinese made collets as you would expect, but I have trouble inserting this collet into the chuck.  The clearance between this collet the collet chuck bore is so close that it needs to go exactly straight, or it won't make it to the threads to get drawn in.  A bit of oil helps, but I'm thinking the internal bore on the chuck might be slightly undersize, or I possibly got a collet that is slightly too big.  I don't know the tolerances on either, so for now not making any changes.  

As you can see in the next picture, there is grease for the gears, but it was not spread very well on the teeth, so doesn't look like it was doing anything.  I used this chuck a little bit before opening it up, so running at 1800 rpm did not sling the grease to the outer diameter where it could be of use.  I removed the gear and added some new grease spread on the teeth.




After cleaning it up, the operation is much better.  I was going to clean up the surface of the pinion bores, but since there was already a lot of clearance between the pinion and bore, I only did a light polish to remove any high spots.  Overall for the price I think it is a good value considering you need to spend at least twice as much to get a Bison.  Whether it is worth twice as much as the Chinese brands you can get on Ebay that likely need work to get in proper condition is something I can't answer since I don't have one of those.  I just watched Clough42's video on his cheap Chinese collet chuck he released today as I was writing this and this one looks a lot better than his.  Knowing what I know now, I probably would have sprung for a Bison, but this will likely give me many years of good service until it needs to get replaced.


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## 9t8z28 (Feb 2, 2022)

Looks pretty good.  Is the body or at least the face for the collet heat treated?


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## woodchucker (Feb 2, 2022)

a good idea to polish up that back plate pinion bore. 
I use a flap disk in a die grinder. (just a shaft with a slit in it, and put a piece of emory folded over in the slit. It polishes pretty good.

it doesn't look as bad as it could be, and looks better than clough42's, agreed.

I always take apart most everything from China immediately.  I think it's the best first step.  If you get really sloppy in the drive pins bore, 
you might take some brass and silver solder it to the back plates side of the bore. just make a piece of metal that you can use to push into the bore to let the solder cool. make sure you heat that piece of metal, you don't want a cool joint. and you want it to keep the piece hot while you clamp it down to properly fill that 1/2 bore.

5C's don't really have tolerances. I read about it, and investigated it for my own knowledge about which way I was going. I discovered they can be all over the place.

I originally thought I could get by without a 5c, only using ER32, but that has turned out to be untrue. 5c's are still a very valuable addition to any lathe, mill. You have spindexers, square and hex holders for the mill.

Good review. btw push screws? Jack screws?


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## Ischgl99 (Feb 2, 2022)

9t8z28 said:


> Looks pretty good.  Is the body or at least the face for the collet heat treated?


I didn’t check, so not sure.


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## Ischgl99 (Feb 2, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> a good idea to polish up that back plate pinion bore.
> I use a flap disk in a die grinder. (just a shaft with a slit in it, and put a piece of emory folded over in the slit. It polishes pretty good.
> 
> it doesn't look as bad as it could be, and looks better than clough42's, agreed.
> ...


I think it is a good value for the price, and it works well so far, but when you see parts that are roughly machined, it makes you start questioning things.  I try to avoid Chinese made products, I’ve been disappointed many times with them, but sometimes the American or European items are a bit too much.  I’m going to use this as is for now and will probably at some point repair it, but plenty of projects waiting in the wings.

I also have an ER-40 chuck from PM, I like that a lot and use it frequently for first ops and when the part is long enough for the collet.  I had some short items I planned on machining, so decided to get a 5C as well.  I’m learning I need to make sure my tolerances are on the lower side or nominal otherwise it is difficult getting them into the collets.  The PM collets so far do not tolerate much at all above nominal, the Lyndex collet has a larger plus range.

A company I worked for used jack screw and push screws interchangeably.  It was basically a direct translation from the German words used in the manuals and when dealing with the factory, it was easier than using our terms, so I pretty much use that term by habit.


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## Alcap (Feb 3, 2022)

I watched Clough42 s video the other day and it looks like your pinion and bevel gears are machined compared to his cast . Your bevel gear looks thicker too . Did yours have bearings behind the bevel gear like his ? I didn’t see it in your pictures . Really nice to see reviews like this .


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## Ischgl99 (Feb 3, 2022)

Yes, the pinions and gears looked to be nicely machined. There is not a thrust bearing in this design, the scroll plate is ground and runs on a ground surface on the front half of the chuck, and the OD of the scroll plate is ground along with the ID it fits into.  These parts run very smoothly, they did a good job grinding those surfaces and the scroll plate runs concentric to the collet bore, no hesitation drawing a collet in when I turned the scroll plate by hand.

There is an oil port on the front that feeds the ground surfaces of the scroll plate and front body half.  The grease on the gears won’t make it to that side, so it’s important to oil it every once in a while.


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## wachuko (Feb 3, 2022)

I was looking at this one as well... Thank you for sharing.


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## Ischgl99 (Feb 3, 2022)

wachuko said:


> I was looking at this one as well... Thank you for sharing.


In spite of the couple areas of poor workmanship, it is a decent chuck and working fine for me.  I would gave preferred to get a Bison, but my wallet is glad I didn’t


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## wachuko (Feb 3, 2022)

Ischgl99 said:


> In spite of the couple areas of poor workmanship, it is a decent chuck and working fine for me.  I would gave preferred to get a Bison, but my wallet is glad I didn’t



Yeah...  I just did the same analysis... 









						Which 5C Collect Chuck to go with?
					

I reading the post from @Ischgl99 on his tare down of his PM 5C Collect Chuck  I was looking at this one as well for my Grizzly G0709.   After reading that thread, I am wondering if I should go for it or just save up for the Bison 5C collect chuck with the D1-5 backplate mount...  I then started...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




I just placed the order for the PM chuck...

Thank you for the slight push I needed to get it... hehehehehe


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## sr71xjet (Feb 4, 2022)

Since this is a thread on the 5c chuck from PM, can anyone recommend a good 5C collet set to use for this chuck.  My 1340 is coming this summer.

Thanks


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## Ischgl99 (Feb 4, 2022)

sr71xjet said:


> Since this is a thread on the 5c chuck from PM, can anyone recommend a good 5C collet set to use for this chuck.  My 1340 is coming this summer.
> 
> Thanks


I bought the metric set of collets from PM.  They are decent and work, but not as nicely finished as an inch sized Lyndex collet I bought.  I need to machine anything I am doing on nominal or lower since I found they only have about 0.001” on the plus side before it gets tight.  The Lyndex collet on the other hand has at least a few thousanths on the upper side.  I don’t have gage pins, so can test it, just estimating using a 0.375” rod.

Most of what I do is metric, so I am buying the inch sized collets as I need them.  I can’t comment on if the inch sets are the same, but for the price, it is hard to beat.  I figured I would start with this set so I had everything I needed and replace the most used sizes with a quality brand as needed, but not sure that will be necessary.  A quality brand like Lyndex is going to run you several times the PM price.  In case you are not aware, Lyndex collets are made in India, so even at that price you are not getting American made.


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## sr71xjet (Feb 4, 2022)

Ischgl99 said:


> I bought the metric set of collets from PM.  They are decent and work, but not as nicely finished as an inch sized Lyndex collet I bought.  I need to machine anything I am doing on nominal or lower since I found they only have about 0.001” on the plus side before it gets tight.  The Lyndex collet on the other hand has at least a few thousanths on the upper side.  I don’t have gage pins, so can test it, just estimating using a 0.375” rod.
> 
> Most of what I do is metric, so I am buying the inch sized collets as I need them.  I can’t comment on if the inch sets are the same, but for the price, it is hard to beat.  I figured I would start with this set so I had everything I needed and replace the most used sizes with a quality brand as needed, but not sure that will be necessary.  A quality brand like Lyndex is going to run you several times the PM price.  In case you are not aware, Lyndex collets are made in India, so even at that price you are not getting American made.


Hey thanks for the info.  I thinking going with the PM for now while I learn.  Who knows, might be all i need.


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## ahazi (Feb 5, 2022)

sr71xjet said:


> Since this is a thread on the 5c chuck from PM, can anyone recommend a good 5C collet set to use for this chuck.  My 1340 is coming this summer.
> 
> Thanks


I have both the 5C set tru chuck and the full 1/64 collet set from PM. Both are very good and very useful for my PM1340GT lathe work. There are always "better" something out there but for my needs it works very well. The price was right and it is definitely better than the Clough42's reviewed chuck...

My first 5C chuck had a problem as the internal bore was too small fit for some of the collets and it was immediately replaced by PM. Great customer service that you will never get from an eBay vendor.

Ariel


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## sr71xjet (Feb 5, 2022)

ahazi said:


> I have both the 5C set tru chuck and the full 1/64 collet set from PM. Both are very good and very useful for my PM1340GT lathe work. There are always "better" something out there but for my needs it works very well. The price was right and it is definitely better than the Clough42's reviewed chuck...
> 
> My first 5C chuck had a problem as the internal bore was too small fit for some of the collets and it was immediately replaced by PM. Great customer service that you will never get from an eBay vendor.
> 
> Ariel


Thanks Ariel.  Thats good to know.


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## Janderso (Feb 5, 2022)

I bought one of these cheap collet chucks, took it apart and found similar issues.
After a good clean up, debur and add proper lubrication it made quite a difference.
Very serviceable for sure.
I also purchased a 5C chuck from Toolmex, made in Poland. A much better quality chuck.
The runout is .002” though. Probably good enough for the work I do.

I watched Clough42’s video also, that one was a mess.


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## Ischgl99 (Feb 5, 2022)

Janderso said:


> I bought one of these cheap collet chucks, took it apart and found similar issues.
> After a good clean up, debur and add proper lubrication it made quite a difference.
> Very serviceable for sure.
> I also purchased a 5C chuck from Toolmex, made in Poland. A much better quality chuck.
> ...


I’m surprised the Toolmex has that much runout.  I’m glad the PM chuck has the adjustability, I can dial it in as accurate as my OCD that day demands .


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## sr71xjet (Feb 5, 2022)

Ischgl99 said:


> I’m surprised the Toolmex has that much runout.  I’m glad the PM chuck has the adjustability, I can dial it in as accurate as my OCD that day demands .


lol


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