# Accurate/precise R8 keyless chuck?



## HellawellCustoms (Feb 24, 2018)

Anyone know of a half decent keyless chuck with an r8 for my mini mill? I've heard the ones that grizzly sell have run out. My first thought was to buy from precision Mathews where I got my mill. It looks like it's well made and precision made.  However I'm Canadian and the exchange rate already sucks and it's 50$ to ship. Is there another source maybe in Canada? Not looking for something cheap but at the same time not looking to pay half the price of the item in shipping.


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Feb 24, 2018)

Hi HallawellCustoms,
i have both cheap and good keyless chucks for my bridgeport.
both have runout, the better one has less the .003" TIR, the cheap one has almost .005"
i don't really think about the TIR when drilling anyway.
get the best chuck you can afford, IMO
it should not matter too much to get a chuck with a little bit of runout- unless you are working on ultra precision pieces


----------



## Buffalo21 (Feb 24, 2018)

I must be the only one, who hates keyless chucks, after a couple of no-names, an Albrecht and a few Rohms, it it wasn’t tight enough to keep the bit from slipping or so tight you almost needed a pipe wrench to get it open back up. I went back to a keyed Rohm and Jacobs chucks, and haven’t looked back.


----------



## ConValSam (Feb 24, 2018)

I am very pleased with the Vertex integrated I purchased.  Mine happens to be MT3, but have no doubt the business would be as functional on an R8 model.


----------



## HellawellCustoms (Feb 24, 2018)

Ulma Doctor said:


> Hi HallawellCustoms,
> i have both cheap and good keyless chucks for my bridgeport.
> both have runout, the better one has less the .003" TIR, the cheap one has almost .005"
> i don't really think about the TIR when drilling anyway.
> ...



I bought a mill to start making folding knives. Almost every video I've watched to learn about it constantly talks about precision and flatness. So just hoping to buy a half decent chuck but nothing to crazy. I'm new to machining so not aware on what to look for or any certain brands. I can't find any chucks on any of the Canadian websites


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Feb 24, 2018)

don't get too caught up , you can spend a lot of money and still have a drill spin on you
that's just a fact of life.
a keyed chuck will offer great holding power.
another consideration to ponder-
an ER system chuck, like an ER32 or ER25
you can get collets that will grip irregular sizes like for drills or for regular sizes like endmill holding.
an ER collet will have considerably less runout than all but the most expensive keyless chuck.
but the ER's do have drawbacks, they are slightly slower than a keyed chuck to change great differences in tool sizes.
but the good part is that you could buy one tool and exchange the collets in and out for just about any tool that would be useful in a mini mill
i'm not a paid spokesperson of the ER collet system, but they are really cool


----------



## HellawellCustoms (Feb 24, 2018)

Ulma Doctor said:


> don't get too caught up , you can spend a lot of money and still have a drill spin on you
> that's just a fact of life.
> a keyed chuck will offer great holding power.
> another consideration to ponder-
> ...


Where can I find information about these at collets? They fit on the r8 taper?


----------



## petertha (Feb 24, 2018)

I have the PM chuck with integral R8 shank for my RF 45 mill. Its a nice chuck, quite accurate. I don't have TIR numbers in front of me, but I'm happy to measure if you like. I also have a Jacobs precision (different size range) & seem to recall they were quite comparable 1-2 thou range mean average across different pin diameters. You are right, sometimes the currency/shipping etc. does not warrant the expense shipping to Canada, sometimes it does. Always check around.

I'm pretty sure PMs is the same (or comparable to) other Taiwan tooling you see under various names. Have you checked out GS brand through Sowa? They have CDN reps. You are in eastern Canada, you probably have several. I have some other GS tooling like ER holders & they are very accurate & decently priced.
http://www.sowatool.com/Product/8/312/1338

They also rep Rohm & Jacobs, but check the PN against other CDN vendors like Travers & KBC. I had a Rohm & thought it was pretty decent but its all about the guaranteed TIR & what day it was assembled 
http://www.sowatool.com/Catalogue/8/312?Drill+Chuck+Type=Keyless+Chucks

Seems to me the PM keyless chuck tightens with a single knurled body action. That's means you need to be in low gear or some kind of spindle lock. The Jacobs has an upper knurled ring so you kind of twist the 2 against one another to tighten. I kind of prefer that but its not a biggy. I have never had keyless chucks loosen unless something else was amiss like tip profile digging in or off center. I really like keyless for convenience.

Also the chuck runout is one thing, your arbor is another. Of course with integrated arbor supposedly the manufacturer has that figured out, but if you buy separately of course you need comparable quality. A 0.000" chuck against a 0.005" arbor gives you 0.005" at the drill. I


----------



## HellawellCustoms (Feb 24, 2018)

Ulma Doctor said:


> don't get too caught up , you can spend a lot of money and still have a drill spin on you
> that's just a fact of life.
> a keyed chuck will offer great holding power.
> another consideration to ponder-
> ...


I think I seen a guy on YouTube use these on a tormach. I can get all kinds for each drill bit eh?


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Feb 24, 2018)

yes sir,
i'll get you a couple links- stand by!
edit, see mksj below !


----------



## mksj (Feb 24, 2018)

Mini mill is probably less likely to spins drills in a keyless chuck. I have gone back and forth with keyless chucks vs. keyed, bottom line is some keyed chucks are better than others. I have used the higher end Precision Mathews integral r8 chuck and it works very well, also had a glacern, Vertex, LLambrich and Jacobs keyed chuck. My first choice is the LLambrich JK-130 or JK-160 in a keyless chuck, seems to work smoothly, always hold the drills securely and never had a problem with it over tightening. It also come with a wrench for tightening or loosening as needed, TIR is around 0.001". Vertex is als nice about the same as the PM keyless chuck. Also a few other brands that have nickle plated precision keyless chucks like SHar's which are very good. 

If you are holding endmills, then there are ER-32 collet systems, the chuck has an integral R8 arbor, you need a decent set of collets. I do not use them for drilling.


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Feb 24, 2018)

HellawellCustoms said:


> I think I seen a guy on YouTube use these on a tormach. I can get all kinds for each drill bit eh?


some of them will cover a 1 mm differential in size


----------



## HellawellCustoms (Feb 24, 2018)

So am I better off buying er collets for each specific drill size? Is that possible or should I just get the keyless chuck?


----------



## Ray C (Feb 24, 2018)

I just bought 2 of these and quite frankly, they're awesome!  They come in a couple varieties and with different shank options.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-pc-Keyle...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Ray


----------



## chips&more (Feb 24, 2018)

HI and welcome to the HM. I probably have 80 different flavors of chucks. And use just one on my BP. It’s a Jacobs key chuck. And not a super either. Have been using it for decades. It’s dead on and holds stuff good after ALL THESE YEARS. That’s why it’s my go to chuck. I’m not saying you need to buy 80 chucks to find that one. And I’m not saying the keyless are the cat’s meow. I hope you find a chuck that works for you. Not sure about buying a collet set-up just to do drilling? And I would not power tap with a keyless chuck. Good Luck…Dave


----------



## HellawellCustoms (Feb 24, 2018)

chips&more said:


> HI and welcome to the HM. I probably have 80 different flavors of chucks. And use just one on my BP. It’s a Jacobs key chuck. And not a super either. Have been using it for decades. It’s dead on and holds stuff good after ALL THESE YEARS. That’s why it’s my go to chuck. I’m not saying you need to buy 80 chucks to find that one. And I’m not saying the keyless are the cat’s meow. I hope you find a chuck that works for you. Not sure about buying a collet set-up just to do drilling? And I would not power tap with a keyless chuck. Good Luck…Dave


Plan to one day invest in a used tapmatic and your probably right I should just go with the keyless chuck to get started. I still have a whole ton of tools I need to buy to make this mill useful. Would love to buy a dro


----------



## chips&more (Feb 24, 2018)

HellawellCustoms said:


> Plan to one day invest in a used tapmatic and your probably right I should just go with the keyless chuck to get started. I still have a whole ton of tools I need to buy to make this mill useful. Would love to buy a dro


Yes, I have several of them but don’t have the need to use them. I think they are excellent for large/many thread hole jobs. I only do one or two, so I power tap most everything.
Sorry, I was not the one selling you on the keyless chuck.


----------



## HellawellCustoms (Feb 24, 2018)

chips&more said:


> Yes, I have several of them but don’t have the need to use them. I think they are excellent for large/many thread hole jobs. I only do one or two, so I power tap most everything.
> Sorry, I was not the one selling you on the keyless chuck.


7 of them?! Hook me up with one!  id use it daily for my knifemaking!  im willing to get Any chuck as long as it has minimal run out keyed or not


----------



## Ken from ontario (Feb 24, 2018)

Good quality keyless chucks are expensive if you want new,$335-to $550  but if you check out ebay ,you could get them much cheaper.
Glacern sells R8-DC625: 1/8"-5/8" for $169.99 plus shipping ~$20 all USD, if you decide to go with ER32 you'll have a more versatile tool holding system (as mentioned in other posts) but it's going to cost you the chuck/r8 arbor, the collets in imperial and in metric  in order to cover almost all drill bit shanks you commonly use
https://www.glacern.com/drill_chucks
https://www.glacern.com/er_collet_chucks

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/...on/1334413993?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


----------



## john.oliver35 (Feb 24, 2018)

There were some good reviews of a Precision Matthews keyless chuck in the PM Forum.  I don't own one - just recall seeing the thread.


----------



## johnnyc14 (Feb 24, 2018)

I've been very happy with the one piece  Llambrich chuck and R8 arbor I bought a few years ago on eBay. They promise .0006" run out or less. Mine meets that spec with room to spare!


----------



## HellawellCustoms (Feb 24, 2018)

johnnyc14 said:


> I've been very happy with the one piece  Llambrich chuck and R8 arbor I bought a few years ago on eBay. They promise .0006" run out or less. Mine meets that spec with room to spare!



got a link to ebay?


----------



## johnnyc14 (Feb 25, 2018)

I don't remember who the vendor was but this is the same model I bought. JK130 R8

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LLAMBRICH-...075850&hash=item33cd07dd17:g:YYMAAOSw0W5aDyE8


----------



## 682bear (Feb 25, 2018)

I bought a PM keyless chuck off e-bay a while back, and so far am very happy with it. It has an R8 shank and very little runout... I think it was around $70...

-Bear


----------



## EmilioG (Feb 25, 2018)

I own several Albrechts, and never had a drill bit slip, spin or get stuck.  Those problems stem from oil getting in the chuck or pushing the drill bit up too far into the chuck. If buying a used Albrecht from Ebay, it may be a good idea to disassemble it, clean it and lubricate it properly, only where it needs to be.  Mikey wrote a great article on refurbing Albrecht drill chucks.

I;ve heard good things about the Glacern keyless, if you decide to look at those, and the Llambrich and Roehm.  I would consider a NOS Roehm keyless, if you can find one in good shape, or Albrecht. Lot's of them on Ebay.  I just saw 3 brand new 0-13mm and 3-16mm Albrechts sell for $160 each on Ebay.

Accurate? I would say only Albrecht, Roehm and possibly Llambrich.


----------



## Mjohnson (Feb 25, 2018)

Keyless chucks are very long. That really hurts on a small mill. I use ER collets because they are accurate, and more importantly, they allow you to grip on the flute of the drill bit. This way you can use a 1/2" drill with only 1" sticking out if that suits your needs.


----------



## pstemari (Feb 27, 2018)

Ugh. You're going to have problems gripping on the drill flutes. Decent drills are relieved such that there's only a small ridge at the nominal diameter at one edge of the flute. The rest of the circumference is ground to a smaller diameter so it doesn't bind up in the hole.

Because of this, if you try using a collet to grip a drill on the flutes, you'll either get very poor contact or you will damage the collet.

Get yourself a set of stub length drills—they are a huge improvement for most tasks.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Mjohnson (Feb 27, 2018)

I know what you mean.  It's definitely not ideal, it's a compromise.  You should see my mill. It's VERY much a collection of compromises. But I do what I can with what I have.


----------



## verbotenwhisky (Dec 21, 2022)

HellawellCustoms said:


> Anyone know of a half decent keyless chuck with an r8 for my mini mill? I've heard the ones that grizzly sell have run out. My first thought was to buy from precision Mathews where I got my mill. It looks like it's well made and precision made.  However I'm Canadian and the exchange rate already sucks and it's 50$ to ship. Is there another source maybe in Canada? Not looking for something cheap but at the same time not looking to pay half the price of the item in shipping.


I bought the ultra precision chuck with my mill, I like it for drilling and edge finding task, the runout on it is as advertised by PM.  (For my next statement please do not throw stones)  I was using a large drill press to cut small parts, I had installed 3 axis DRO's on it and had issues with its Jacob's chuck run out so I bought a MT3 ER32 collet chuck and an inexpensive set (25 piece) of ER32 collects, the runout on those is infinitely less than the chuck was.  Now I have a PM940V and I have purchased an R8 x ER32 collet chuck which uses my previously purchased collects and  it still has less runout than the precision chuck.


----------



## Shotgun (Dec 21, 2022)

Mjohnson said:


> Keyless chucks are very long. That really hurts on a small mill. I use ER collets because they are accurate, and more importantly, they allow you to grip on the flute of the drill bit. This way you can use a 1/2" drill with only 1" sticking out if that suits your needs.


I've since switched to a Bridgeport clone, but this is what made the collet chuck live on the WrongFu-45.  Z travel is at a precious  premium on a mini-mill.  Add a large vise (because, "huh! huh! More POWER"), on a swivel base, then add a keyless chuck with a 1/2" drill, and you might be able to slip a coupon of sheet stock in there.

Get a full set of the metric size collets (step up every mm) and you have a complete holding system from just above micro-drills to larger than what a mini-mill can really handle.  Tool changes are slower, but the collet will hold drills, end mills, taps and even stock, and all more accurately and securely than any reasonably priced chuck.  A mini-muffin pan from Walmart cooking section keeps them all arrange nicely and handy.


----------



## Dabbler (Dec 21, 2022)

I have several (4?  5?) Jacobs keyed chucks 2 keyless offshore chucks and an Albrecht.  For runout, the Albrecht is king -- but it doesn't hold anywhere near as well as my Jacobs ball bearing chucks.  so for small drills and light drilling, I use the keyless.  For everything else the superchuck.

The Albrecht has about .0004 runout, and the Jacobs superchuck around .00085  all the others are far worse.


----------

