# Choosing a new mill



## bom2000 (May 16, 2017)

Going to pull the trigger on a new mill. I have done all the research across many machining sites and have agree a knee mill made in Taiwan is better, and bigger work volume is also better. It has boiled down to a Grizzly G0731 (8 x 30 w power feed @ $3995) or G0678 (8x 30 variable speed @ $3679). My problem is that I told my wife that would cost less than $4K. Shipping and basic tooling will be an additional $500, so I’m really screwed on the budget. The variable speed seems to be the way to go with adding a power feed later. This is based on the fact that I have two drill presses that I have changed speeds less than 50 times in 30 years.

My question to the experienced is: What is more important, ease of changing speeds or the finish that a power feed yields?

Are there better options out there?


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## Chipper5783 (May 16, 2017)

You are correct: variable now and power feed later (even better scrimp for a while and get the job done right to begin with).  I am with you about the drill press - I have a couple of the basic step pulley drill presses and I hardly ever change the belts (stays on the slowest spindle speed).  I have a knee mill with a Reeves drive and I often crank the speed change handle.

The knee mill (a Cincinnati Toolmaster) has power feed on the table - if I had to give up one of the features (power feed or VS spindle) it would be the power feed.  Of course I would immediately start figuring out a way to have all the features - just saying that the easy speed change is a very nice feature on a milling machine.

Let us know what you finally decide.  David


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## Paul in OKC (May 17, 2017)

You will change the rpm on the mill much more than the drill press, so I too would go with the variable speed mill. Power feed is nice, but unless you are doing some longer-ish parts it is not totally necessary.


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## Uglydog (May 17, 2017)

Learning to hand feed is a good thing.

Daryl
MN


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## Jonathans (May 17, 2017)

Once I moved away from a benchtop mill my first knee mill was a Millrite with 30" of X travel and 15" of Y.  That mill ran circles around any of the Taiwan downsized knee mills I had tried.
Being a 3 phase machine, running it off of a VFD provided me with the variable speed I wanted to have.  It was a simple matter to add power to the X and Y and all said and done it came in at less than $3,000.
My suggestion is to look for some old 3 phase iron that is in good shape.  I don't know your location or I would have looked a bit for ya.
If you have the space, go for a Bridgeport. Lots of them out there for less than $4,000.


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## Uglydog (May 17, 2017)

I completely agree with Johnathans (well not the BP part, but certainly vintage...).
Regardless, some people really like having a new machine.

I'm especially excited that the old iron HM and the new machine HM can get along and work together to problem solve, learn stuff and have a good time!
bom2000, you appear to be new here at HM.
Welcome. 
We hope to see you back and increasingly active!!!

Daryl
MN


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## wrmiller (May 17, 2017)

Jonathans said:


> Once I moved away from a benchtop mill my first knee mill was a Millrite with 30" of X travel and 15" of Y.  That mill ran circles around any of the Taiwan downsized knee mills I had tried.
> Being a 3 phase machine, running it off of a VFD provided me with the variable speed I wanted to have.  It was a simple matter to add power to the X and Y and all said and done it came in at less than $3,000.
> My suggestion is to look for some old 3 phase iron that is in good shape.  I don't know your location or I would have looked a bit for ya.
> If you have the space, go for a Bridgeport. Lots of them out there for less than $4,000.



"in good shape" is a major qualifier to your statement, as is availability. In Wyoming, there likely isn't a large used machine market. Kinda like my area too.

OP: Welcome to the HM forums!


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## RandyWilson (May 17, 2017)

As a recent first-time mill buyer, I was in the same boat. conflicting requirements and many options and choices in the new offshore mill. Old iron was not so available, locally. I was about to pull the trigger on one when a Cincinnati 1B showed up on craigslist. I jumped on it even though it broke all of my self-imposed size and weight restrictions. 
 As far as which of your two specific ones is best for you, I can't say. But I will suggest, being there right now, that your $500 for initial tooling (never mind shipping) is a tad.... optimistic.  Mine came with a vise and collets and an assortment of cutting tools.... and I've still spent more than that in the last two weeks ebay'ing used and Chinese starter bits.


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## Dave Paine (May 17, 2017)

I have a Grizzly G1008 which looks the same as the G0731.

Changing speeds on my G1008 is a pain since insufficient slack in the belt with the motor all the way in, so a hassle to get the belt off.

A bigger issue is that the G1008 and G0731 have a gap in the available speed range, no speeds between 490 and 950 rpm which is a range I like to use.

The specs for the G0731 state "270, 420, 490, 950, 1110, 1410, 1720, 2050 and 3200 RPM" which is the same as my G1008.

I would go with the variable speed model and add power feed later.

My G1008 has power feed on the X axis.  I have not used this often, but it is really nice to have an easy speed change and a range with no gaps in the RPM.


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## Wreck™Wreck (May 17, 2017)

New mill turned up at work 2 weeks ago, it should be running in another week or so and will never look like this again afterwards, so I took a picture.
Trac FHM 7


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## Silverbullet (May 18, 2017)

If it were me I'd choose variable speed, power feed can be added later . But not the other way around . Try talking to the wife , see if you can make some extra money , sell something or get a part time job for a few months. If it comes to choosing go variable , YUPP won't be sorry , the power feeds can be had for around $200.00. Not hard to install . I own an old enco mill like that grizzly. I needs some work eventually ill be able to do it and several more machines.

I forgot welcome to the site ,  good luck with your mill, I'm jealous


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## bom2000 (Jun 20, 2017)

Lots of good advice here.
I initially tried the Bridgeport route, nothing that was not a scrap heap within 300 miles under $3000.
Had a good deal on a Enco Bridgeport  (Taiwan) clone with tons of tooling. It was 5 hrs away, moving was $4K.

The issue is my location, very rural.  NW WI on the end of a gravel road, I need to get the machine to my garage up a 300 ft gravel driveway with a elevation gain of 40 ft.

Last week I tried to buy the Grizzly G0678.  A week later they said the closest they could get it was a freight terminal 3 hours away.

Looked at getting  a PM932 with power feed and DRO, more than $500 less than the Grizzly.

They originally said they could ship anywhere in the US. Gave them my address, now they are not sure.

I found a local trucking company that can do a lift gate at my garage.

Sent the info to both , waiting for new quotes.

Bottom line: I still prefer the knee mill over the PM with all the bells and whistles.

Any  thoughts?


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## Buffalo20 (Jun 20, 2017)

Every time I hear people talking about spindle speeds, feed rates and such, I think of one of my old bosses. He had the Wells-Index (his machine) set at about 2500 rpms, never changed it. He would speed up or slow down the table speed, until it sounded right (to him). The parts always were workable and end mills seem to last forever. I'm not saying it's the right way to do it, but it seemed to work for him.


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## bom2000 (Jun 20, 2017)

That has always been my approach, I've  used high spindle speeds with hand feed rates, go with what feels right.


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## ddickey (Jun 20, 2017)

Love Hayward. Just drove through there a while back heading up to Ashland for a job interview.
Did the Fat Tire a bunch of times.


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## RandyM (Jun 21, 2017)

bom2000 said:


> Lots of good advice here.
> I initially tried the Bridgeport route, nothing that was not a scrap heap within 300 miles under $3000.
> Had a good deal on a Enco Bridgeport  (Taiwan) clone with tons of tooling. It was 5 hrs away, moving was $4K.
> 
> ...



I am confused here, why does your bio say Wyoming?


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## projectnut (Jun 21, 2017)

The keys to finding good used equipment in Wisconsin are persistence and patience.  There are plenty of good machines out there at reasonable prices.  You just have to know where to look.  I would suggest visiting some local machine shops and let the owner know you're looking for a particular type of machine.  It's a close knit community and they all let each other know when they are either buying or selling machines.   The company I worked for had several machine shops in production or rebuild facilities across the country.  The shops were always being visited by vendors of some sort or another.  Over time you learned from them who was buying and who was selling.  You also learned how shops treated their equipment.  Other good places to look are local high schools, municipalities, universities, and technical colleges.  Machines from these places are generally in like new condition, and go for prices less than a dime on the dollar.  Wisconsin has several online sites that cater to the above mentioned entities.

Here are a couple sites:
http://www.maxanet.com/cgi-bin/mncal.cgi?rlust

https://swap.wisc.edu/

http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/all,wi/browse/home?tm=m

https://madison.craigslist.org/search/tla?query=milling+machine

Over the years I've purchased over a dozen machines.  Some from businesses downsizing, upgrading, or changing focus, some from schools and universities upgrading, and others from used equipment dealers.  All the machines have been in excellent condition, and none cost nearly $4,000.00.  My latest purchase was a Sheldon MW-56P lathe.  It was totally rebuilt from the ground up including having the bed and saddle ways reground.  It came with several chucks, follow rest, steady rest, 5C collet drawbar system, dog plate, face plate, tool post, and other assorted tooling.  It's the first machine I purchased out of state.  It came from a shop in the Chicago area that had replaced it with a larger machine.  This was the most expensive machine I've ever purchased, and was slightly more than half the price BO mentioned someone was asking for a machine in poor condition.

 Another way to keep the cost down is to provide your own transportation.  When buying new most manufacturers or dealers will ship to a local freight depot for minimal prices.  The big cost is to get it from the depot to the final destination.  I have moved machines in my own 5 ton trailer, in the back of a pickup truck, and even rented a drop bed trailer.  I was given quotes from $1,800.00 to over $3,000.00 to move my latest machine from the Chicago area to southern Wisconsin.  In the end I rented a drop bed trailer like this one for less than $200.00

https://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equi...0150/6ft-x-12ft-lift-bed-tandem-axle-trailer/

It took less than a day to pickup the lathe and get it home and unloaded.  I returned the trailer the following day.  All in all it was an easy and inexpensive way to transport a heavy and awkward piece of equipment.


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## cvairwerks (Jun 21, 2017)

Hayward Wi is pretty nice. Had family that lived in Spooner.


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## bom2000 (Jun 21, 2017)

RandyM said:


> I am confused here, why does your bio say Wyoming?


 I am in WI, must have clicked WY when I joined, I've tried to edit my profile but nothing takes.


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## RandyM (Jun 22, 2017)

bom2000 said:


> I am in WI, must have clicked WY when I joined, I've tried to edit my profile but nothing takes.



I logged in as you and fixed it. The reason it didn't take is you did not fill the last three question as instructed by the system. I filled them in for you to get your location changed. I suggest you edit them to better describe who you are.


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## TORQUIN (Jun 22, 2017)

Here's an M-head not too far away, with DRO, tooling and power feed. You could rent a drop trailer like someone else said and get it yourself.
https://northernwi.craigslist.org/tls/6178619466.html


Chris


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## projectnut (Jun 22, 2017)

TORQUIN said:


> Here's an M-head not too far away, with DRO, tooling and power feed. You could rent a drop trailer like someone else said and get it yourself.
> https://northernwi.craigslist.org/tls/6178619466.html
> Chris



I would check the serial number on the front of the knee.  I believe the M head machines were discontinued in the late 1960's.  The seller says this machine was built in 1974.  My Bridgeport is a V ram machine with a J2J variable speed head.  It was built in1972.


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