# Triumph Spitfire Weber-carb throttle cable adapter.



## ErichKeane (Aug 20, 2021)

So as a back story: A friend of mine bought a '78 Triumph Spitfire about 20 years ago, had some problems with it that a bunch of shade-tree mechanics made worse, then parked it for 10-15 years.  Its now a bit of a rust-bucket, and everything is corroded/'bad'.  In addition, past owners  have done 'upgrades' a few times that make things perhaps a little better or worse.  IN ADDITION TO THAT, there are some questionable design decisions, mixed with Lucas Electronics.

He brought it over to my shop to get me to spend my spare time on/off trying to get it at least 'working' again.  I had to rebuild/replace the entire brake system, fuel system,   I ended up having to replace the entire fuel system, cooling system, redo a lot of the wiring, and quite a bit else!  I still have to replace the dashboard, as the plywood was basically shattered from the water, so touching it made it turn to dust.

ONE such previous-owner install was to replace the factory twin carbs with a Weber DGEV (though, someone along the way cut the wire to the choke... why? who knows...).  The replacement carb had a 'clamp-on-wire' style throttle cable adapter, which required 'cutting' the ferrule off the end of the throttle cable.  We ordered a new throttle cable (thanks to some pretty terrible damage to it), plus a new carb (due to a failed rebuild attempt!).  

However, I couldn't bring myself to cutting the new throttle cable.  Instead, I went to the machine shop!

First step was measuring the current part, the throttle cable end, and the part it attached to, then use those to plan the new part:



I chose to make the hex head on it anyway, since it is useful when putting the split pin in the small hole, and made the cable side pretty large to make it easier to get it right.

Next, I needed to find material!  I went with this piece I cut off my old mill's X axis leadscrew (to adapt a different/newer power feed!), so I hope it is something like 4140.  It certainly machined like something harder than 1018.





Now, onto the lathe work!  I cut the small end on the outside, made an area for the hex head, then swapped left and right-hand tools back and forth to cut the inside.  I still haven't found a good way of moving a lot of material like this.  I think I need to come up with a "Left and right" hand tool shaped like a dovetail 




Once down to size everywhere, I parted off and was done with the lathe work.



Here it is parted off.  There is a nub at the end (I tried to shape my parting tool, but it seemed to only make it walk?  Oh well, I end up removing these some way or another, and it was easy on this project.




Now, onto the mill! (This is the first project using my new mill by the way!  Pretty exciting!)  First step was cutting the hex.  I just used a hex collet block and a 5/8" endmill:



Same setup, I drilled for the split pin.  The DRO was useful for getting it in the right place.



Next, flipped around in the collet block (and square this time!), I started drilling the ferrule hole.




This ended up being a center drill, followed by a small thru-hole, then a larger 'counter bore', which fits the ferrule perfectly!  I was a touch nervous, since if my measurements/the holes didn't end up being right for the throttle cable, I would have a tough time resetting this drilling (since there is no way to test it until the next step!).




Finally, I needed clearance for the cable.  Cable was measured as .059", but I only have 2 slitting saws: a large diameter .032" and a small diameter .078".  I wasn't thrilled with trying to do 2 cuts with the small one, so I went with the large one.  I only have a 2 axis DRO, so I missed the Z axis DRO here!  I did a pretty poor job getting it centered with the dial, and lost count, so I wasn't anywhere near the center.  SO, I eyeballed it and it is 'fine'.  Its a little off center, but it works.



Finally, a test fit on the throttle cable!  It is just about the perfect amount of 'tight'!



Last, but not least, cold blue to make it rust slower than the rest of the car:



And no 'finished product' picture, I grabbed a beer and let the blue work, then forgot to take a finished picture.


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## C-Bag (Aug 20, 2021)

The Spitfire was my first crush auto wise. I just thought they were the coolest thing ever. Being the oldest and the first to get my license and wanting a car my dad took my consideration seriously and ran them by his mechanic. And bless his heart and all his vital organs he steered both of us away from English cars. Even then I wanted to drive more than fix and they would not have been a good fit.

But I’ve not seen any Spitfire’s in decades and often wondered why nobody swapped out the electrical and running gear for like Toyota and just keep basically the cute hull. Are they like the old Porsche’s, once they get cancer they are toast?


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## ErichKeane (Aug 20, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> The Spitfire was my first crush auto wise. I just thought they were the coolest thing ever. Being the oldest and the first to get my license and wanting a car my dad took my consideration seriously and ran them by his mechanic. And bless his heart and all his vital organs he steered both of us away from English cars. Even then I wanted to drive more than fix and they would not have been a good fit.
> 
> But I’ve not seen any Spitfire’s in decades and often wondered why nobody swapped out the electrical and running gear for like Toyota and just keep basically the cute hull. Are they like the old Porsche’s, once they get cancer they are toast?


They are pretty cheap, and a lot of parts are available, so they have a pretty good community around them!  This one needs a battery tray, floor boards, and a boot/trunk-floor, but they are apparently available and weld-in-able.  The rest is actually not in awful shape!

The engine/transmission themselves are reasonably cheap and reliable, so those end up being worth keeping.  They are at a minimum, 'dirt simple'.  There ARE a couple of generic electrical-system 'kits' that people use when doing a rebuild to add fuses/relays, though nothing car specific.

The 'factory' fuse box is actually only _3_ fuses!  So the whole car is 3 circuits!  1 is 'always on', 1 for 'ignition on', and 1 for 'headlights on'.  One frustrating part is that every control has full-12v running through it as well!

I find it interesting what the 'spitfire' facebook groups consider an expensive part though!  I was told that I should just spend a few more hours trying to re-rebuild the carb instead of paying the exorbinant $200 for the replacement.  On MY sports car (a 300zx TT), fixing something for only $200 in parts is considered a great day!


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## bill70j (Aug 20, 2021)

Well, we had this gem for almost 30 years.  It came as part of the dowry, otherwise I'm not sure I would have bought it.  It was fun to drive, but the Lucas electrical was a mess, plus it simply couldn't handle the Houston heat.  So we got rid of it in 2002 for a song.  I am astonished what people are listing these things for these days.

Tony:  As far as the swap goes, if we still had the Triumph today, I would definitely do one - maybe even electrify the thing.  The swap of the LT-1/4L60E into the Jaguar made all the difference in the world for that vehicle, though we are still weeding out Lucas stuff one-by-one as those bits fail.


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## ErichKeane (Aug 20, 2021)

bill70j said:


> Well, we had this gem for almost 30 years.  It came as part of the dowry, otherwise I'm not sure I would have bought it.  It was fun to drive, but the Lucas electrical was a mess, plus it simply couldn't handle the Houston heat.  So we got rid of it in 2002 for a song.  I am astonished what people are listing these things for these days.
> 
> Tony:  As far as the swap goes, if we still had the Triumph today, I would definitely do one - maybe even electrify the thing.  The swap of the LT-1/4L60E into the Jaguar made all the difference in the world for that vehicle, though we are still weeding out Lucas stuff one-by-one as those bits fail.
> 
> ...



They are certainly PRETTY cars!

I'm appauled/amazed at how TERRIBLE Lucas stuff is, even 'new' stuff.  I went through a period buying like 4 different Lucas things and EACH needed repair before I could install them.  One was a replacement blinker stalk that was mis-assembled and and didn't come close to working.  Another ridiculous one was a flanged pipe adapter that they forgot to tap one of the holes in!  Thats right, a simple pipe with a 2-hole flange: missed tapping 1 hole.

Stripping the car down to nothing and making in an EV would be pretty cool!  The interior is mostly cardboard garbage (that the rain has also melted...), so a good interior guy would be nice as well.


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## C-Bag (Aug 20, 2021)

bill70j said:


> Well, we had this gem for almost 30 years.  It came as part of the dowry, otherwise I'm not sure I would have bought it.  It was fun to drive, but the Lucas electrical was a mess, plus it simply couldn't handle the Houston heat.  So we got rid of it in 2002 for a song.  I am astonished what people are listing these things for these days.
> 
> Tony:  As far as the swap goes, if we still had the Triumph today, I would definitely do one - maybe even electrify the thing.  The swap of the LT-1/4L60E into the Jaguar made all the difference in the world for that vehicle, though we are still weeding out Lucas stuff one-by-one as those bits fail.
> 
> ...


Wow you even had the hardtop for it too. I remember them having one of the tiniest radiators I’d ever seen. I also think I’d mod the hood hinge as it opened enough to pi$$ me off. I hate being able to see something but not be able to physically get to it.

It does boggle the mind Lucas is such garbage and continues to be. How is that even possible today? The last funky garage I worked in the owners wife’s best friend had a brand new Jag sedan of some kind and I’m not joking, it had to be towed to the garage in Fresno every other week.


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## C-Bag (Aug 20, 2021)

ErichKeane said:


> They are pretty cheap, and a lot of parts are available, so they have a pretty good community around them!  This one needs a battery tray, floor boards, and a boot/trunk-floor, but they are apparently available and weld-in-able.  The rest is actually not in awful shape!
> 
> The engine/transmission themselves are reasonably cheap and reliable, so those end up being worth keeping.  They are at a minimum, 'dirt simple'.  There ARE a couple of generic electrical-system 'kits' that people use when doing a rebuild to add fuses/relays, though nothing car specific.
> 
> ...


Hmm, that’s crazy. There are car clubs that meet in Morro Bay year around. 356 clubs, 911, Bug Eye Sprite, various other MG’s etc. Never Spitfires. I never would have known there was any interest in them.

I never had any luck with any kind of variable venturi carb no matter English or German. I did have great luck once I learned how to jet the Weber 2bbl‘s. They always came too lean and I could pick them up for nothing because the shade trees couldn’t get the hesitation and bog out of them and would get rid of them for pennies on the dollar. Once jetted right it made my old Datsun 1600 scream and get over 30mpg. Best part never had to fiddle with it after it was dialed in.


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## Boswell (Aug 20, 2021)

brings back memories of a Triumph Spitfire I had when I was 19 years old. Had a removeable hard top and I loved it but did not have enough money or skill to keep it reliable so I had to sell it. One of my few regrets.


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## JM329 (Aug 20, 2021)

ErichKeane said:


> So as a back story: A friend of mine bought a '78 Triumph Spitfire about 20 years ago, had some problems with it that a bunch of shade-tree mechanics made worse, then parked it for 10-15 years.  Its now a bit of a rust-bucket, and everything is corroded/'bad'.  In addition, past owners  have done 'upgrades' a few times that make things perhaps a little better or worse.  IN ADDITION TO THAT, there are some questionable design decisions, mixed with Lucas Electronics.
> 
> He brought it over to my shop to get me to spend my spare time on/off trying to get it at least 'working' again.  I had to rebuild/replace the entire brake system, fuel system,   I ended up having to replace the entire fuel system, cooling system, redo a lot of the wiring, and quite a bit else!  I still have to replace the dashboard, as the plywood was basically shattered from the water, so touching it made it turn to dust.
> 
> ...


I


C-Bag said:


> Hmm, that’s crazy. There are car clubs that meet in Morro Bay year around. 356 clubs, 911, Bug Eye Sprite, various other MG’s etc. Never Spitfires. I never would have known there was any interest in them.
> 
> I never had any luck with any kind of variable venturi carb no matter English or German. I did have great luck once I learned how to jet the Weber 2bbl‘s. They always came too lean and I could pick them up for nothing because the shade trees couldn’t get the hesitation and bog out of them and would get rid of them for pennies on the dollar. Once jetted right it made my old Datsun 1600 scream and get over 30mpg. Best part never had to fiddle with it after it was dialed in.


I'm the guy who couldn't get the hesitation and bog out of a weber lol. I had an 82 cj7 and that two barrel weber about drove me mad. I ended up blowing the muffler apart right down the welded seam lol. I got a  offenhauser intake with a four barrel and that was a great combo with the straight 6. You have my respect for being able to dial one in though, mine is probably still laying wherever it landed when i threw it.


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## C-Bag (Aug 20, 2021)

JM329 said:


> . I ended up blowing the muffler apart right down the welded seam lol.


LOL. Now I can’t imagine what kind of hoops you’d have to jump through to get it to work on 6cyl, unless it was rig up 2 of those Weber’s. The ones I’m familiar with were meant for 4cyl. Most tried to put them on VW’s. The one I’d had someone gave me after he gave up. It sat in a box for years before the silly stock Datsun carb wore out and I put the Weber on it. It helped we had a smog machine and I could see directly what the problem was


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## JM329 (Aug 20, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> LOL. Now I can’t imagine what kind of hoops you’d have to jump through to get it to work on 6cyl, unless it was rig up 2 of those Weber’s. The ones I’m familiar with were meant for 4cyl. Most tried to put them on VW’s. The one I’d had someone gave me after he gave up. It sat in a box for years before the silly stock Datsun carb wore out and I put the Weber on it. It helped we had a smog machine and I could see directly what the problem was






	

		
			
		

		
	
 it was horrible on the straight 6. But the 4 barrel upgrade was great. it was better than the chevy small blocks a lot of guys used. It was twenty years ago i just took screenshots off the web. I was cracking up when i saw this though. The old man across the street thought a bomb went off.


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## C-Bag (Aug 20, 2021)

Geez I’ve not seen one of those Weber’s since I traded in my ‘76 Datsun PU in ‘82. It was hilarious that the sales manager drove that PU in order to see if it was even worth trading in and he was floored it ran so good. It was bought by one of the mechanics before we even closed the deal on the new PU.


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## matthewsx (Aug 20, 2021)

I had a Triumph Herald and a TR4 with the Surrey Top.

Gone now


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## MrWhoopee (Aug 21, 2021)

Boswell said:


> I loved it but did not have enough money or skill to keep it reliable so I had to sell it.


This ^^^^ 
I was told by an independent Jaguar mechanic that people could afford to buy them but couldn't afford to keep them running.

My first car was a '51 Riley Drophead Coupe. A little old lady ran a stop sign and totalled it for me. Dad paid $800 for it and sold it for $1k after it was wrecked. I believe this may be the same car. It didn't look nearly this good when I had it, but I know this is the color scheme that was chosen when it was restored a couple of decades later. The owner tracked me down because I was the last registered owner.


It had 2 Lucas fuel pumps, one in the engine compartment and one back by the gas tank. Good planning.

I started drooling over a Jag XK-120 for $1200. My dad called his partner in crime and I got a $350 '59 MGA instead. That car taught me a lot, primarily to avoid English cars. 

Lucas: Prince of Darkness

The English drink warm beer because they have Lucas refrigerators.

I lost a friend when a tie-rod broke on his Spitfire at highway speed. It flipped end over end 3 times.


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## C-Bag (Aug 21, 2021)

MrWhoopee said:


> This ^^^^
> I was told by an independent Jaguar mechanic that people could afford to buy them but couldn't afford to keep them running.
> 
> My first car was a '51 Riley Drophead Coupe. A little old lady ran a stop sign and totalled it for me. Dad paid $800 for it and sold it for $1k after it was wrecked. I believe this may be the same car. It didn't look nearly this good when I had it, but I know this is the color scheme that was chosen when it was restored a couple of decades later. The owner tracked me down because I was the last registered owner.
> ...


Man, seldom do you go through all the emotions in one post. I jones’d, I doubly laughed and ended up with 

BTW I lost my first car, a ‘57 Karmann Ghia to an old lady plowing into the back of me. We had to fight to get the insurance to give us $450( they first offered $75!). I never hardly ever heard my dad get mad but you could have fried an egg on his forehead when he was dealing with the insurance idiots. That ‘57 would be worth big $$ now.


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## brino (Aug 22, 2021)

ErichKeane said:


> The replacement carb had a 'clamp-on-wire' style throttle cable adapter, which required 'cutting' the ferrule off the end of the throttle cable. We ordered a new throttle cable (thanks to some pretty terrible damage to it), plus a new carb (due to a failed rebuild attempt!).
> 
> However, I couldn't bring myself to cutting the new throttle cable. Instead, I went to the machine shop!



Erich great photo-documentary, thanks for bringing us all along!
-brino


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## Bob Korves (Aug 22, 2021)

"Lucas, the prince of darkness..."  is how we spoke of their electrical stuff back in the day.  A buddy of mine made me a deal on a MGB hulk (no engine or interior) and any parts he had laying around (which was essentially a mini wrecking yard) for $300.  He said I was paying for the chrome spoke wheels, the rest was thrown in for free.  I bought essentially nothing besides paint and 2 seats for the restoration.  I was young and poor but was able to get it running well and looking decent with new paint and TLC, and drove it for more than 10 years before selling it for $1500.  I had essentially no trouble with the car while I owned it...


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## RandyWilson (Aug 22, 2021)

As a long time mechanic of things British stretching from when they were new to well into the restoration years, I am baffled by the continuing myths and dogma taken as outright fact.  Most all of these things can be traced back to people that do not know the car, do not understand the car, and try to treat it as a 1963 Chevy.

There is nothing really wrong with Lucas electrics. They were used the world over by many manufatures, including American brands. But blamed they were.... often for things that aren't even theirs. As an example, the Spitfire line, from 1962 through 1980, only used Lucas equipment the very last few years. For most of the run, they used a mixture of Delco for engine stuff, and Clearhooter for switch gear. Yes, "Clearhooter".

People would remove the extremely simple and efficient CD carb, mount up a 32/36 Weber from a German Ford of twice the displacement... on an unheated upswept manifold, and wonder why it bogged, stumbled, and got terrible mileage. then they would smugly blame it on Lucas.


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## Bob Korves (Aug 22, 2021)

RandyWilson said:


> As a long time mechanic of things British stretching from when they were new to well into the restoration years, I am baffled by the continuing myths and dogma taken as outright fact.  Most all of these things can be traced back to people that do not know the car, do not understand the car, and try to treat it as a 1963 Chevy.
> 
> There is nothing really wrong with Lucas electrics. They were used the world over by many manufatures, including American brands. But blamed they were.... often for things that aren't even theirs. As an example, the Spitfire line, from 1962 through 1980, only used Lucas equipment the very last few years. For most of the run, they used a mixture of Delco for engine stuff, and Clearhooter for switch gear. Yes, "Clearhooter".
> 
> People would remove the extremely simple and efficient CD carb, mount up a 32/36 Weber from a German Ford of twice the displacement... on an unheated upswept manifold, and wonder why it bogged, stumbled, and got terrible mileage. then they would smugly blame it on Lucas.


I actually totally agree with you.  I never had any problem with Lucas products more than with Delco or others.  In fact, I do not think I ever had a problem with Lucas parts they were decent quality.  The other issue was the fact that British cars were wired with return grounds for everything, instead of using the chassis for the ground, an approach which IMPROVES the electrical system.  It was just the times.  It was not made in America, and so it must be inferior, an attitude that has often been proven wrong.  Let me tell you about my Chevrolet Corvair...


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## matthewsx (Aug 22, 2021)

I also didn’t have any excessive problems with Lucas electrics on my Triumphs.

The strangest one I had was on a Datsun that I finally figured out was corrosion behind the fuse block.

John


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