# Now I went and did it.  Let the fun begin!



## Just for fun (Aug 23, 2021)

I just ordered a PM-835S and a PM-1236T 3 phase with lots of accessories for both.  Now the wait has begun.

So now I need to purchase a VFD and hope I can find a control panel like @BladesIIB has on his lathe.

Tim


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## BladesIIB (Aug 23, 2021)

Tim, congrats on the new machines, they will be worth the wait hang in there.  You should be able to find Mark's (mksj) posts and see what you need for the VFD enclosure.  His specs should be a closer size for your machine than the actual VFD I purchased.  The overall set up is very similar regardless of the machine, Mark helped me size the right components for my build out.  As for the control panel, I used what came stock on my lathe.  I swapped a couple of items in the holes, and only drilled 1 very small hole for a toggle switch, and made an insert to reduce the size of one hole.  If you do need to make a new plate, with your new mill that should be easy work.  Let me know if I can help with any VFD questions.  Mark is the true expert but if I can take some of his Q&A load off with the easy questions, happy to help.


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## davidpbest (Aug 23, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> I just ordered a PM-835S and a PM-1236T 3 phase with lots of accessories for both.  Now the wait has begun.
> 
> So now I need to purchase a VFD and hope I can find a control panel like @BladesIIB has on his lathe.
> 
> Tim


Congrats on the new machines.  If you want to make your own control panels, try FrontPanelExpress.com   They made the panels for my machines.


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## Just for fun (Aug 23, 2021)

Thanks Bud,  I have watched your video a couple times I'll have to check it out again.

Thanks Dave,  I will definitely check out Front Panel Express.


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## Cletus (Aug 23, 2021)

Hey, congratulations on the new machines!   ....yes, the wait is the killer, more so than the weight!


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## Janderso (Aug 23, 2021)

Congratulations Tim!
Outstanding.


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## Tipton1965 (Aug 23, 2021)

Congrats on the new machines!!


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## Just for fun (Aug 24, 2021)

Thanks guys,   I'm about a year a head of schedule but the way the world is going I thought I better get them while I can.   The price went up just about two grand since may as it was.


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## Just for fun (Aug 27, 2021)

On the lathe, if I wait a little longer maybe a couple month I can get a single phase unit.  Is it worth getting a 3 phase unit for a hobby guy?  What are the real benefits to having a three phase?

Tim


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## rabler (Aug 27, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> On the lathe, if I wait a little longer maybe a couple month I can get a single phase unit.  Is it worth getting a 3 phase unit for a hobby guy?  What are the real benefits to having a three phase?
> 
> Tim


Pro's on 3-phase
1) You can add a VFD to a 3-phase if you ever want variable speed control
2) 3-phase motors are smoother.  constant torque through the full 360 output, where single phase torque "pulses" as it spins.  This can make a difference on finish quality.

Obviously the big downside to three-phase is the added cost and complexity of converting to three phase from single phase.


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## Cletus (Aug 27, 2021)

I think it's well worth it, but then again, I've been working with VFDs all through my career.


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## BladesIIB (Aug 27, 2021)

The VFD adds variable speed as well as controlled start up and slow down. Variable speed can help with chatter sometimes. Also, the constant start and stop is harder on single phase than 3 phase. So longer term 3 phase will typically hold up better.


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## Larry$ (Aug 27, 2021)

An alternative to the VFD is a rotary phase converter. You can make one from a 3 phase motor, some big capacitors and a couple of switches. Good info is available on line. You can run multiple motors off one converter.


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## Just for fun (Aug 27, 2021)

OK guys, Thanks for the info.  I will march forward with the 3 phase unit.


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## B2 (Aug 28, 2021)

Hi Tim,  I am not familiar with where your electronics are or if you can put the new ones in the stand.   I have operating a 3phase PM1440GT which I took delivery of in early 2020.  

It comes with a stand, is integrated with the lathe, and the electronics are in the back of the stand.... which is very inconvenient as it limits where the lathe can be placed and still have access to the enclosure.  However, my VFD design managed to put all of the control electronics, including the VFD and braking resistor in the original 1440GT stand cabinet enclosure with room to spare, i.e. replaced what came with the lathe and did not occupy any additional volume.  No parts were put in the end of the cabinet.  This was accomplished by eliminating all of the big relays and transformer with solid state electronics and putting all of the new stuff in the same enclosure.  Hence, there are no external cabinets.  I have now had the final version working for over 6 months without problems.    It took me a long time to document my installation but am putting the finishing touches on it.  It is documented in detail.   I would be happy to share this with you and any other folks if I can figure out how to make it available.  The files are kind of large.  

Dave


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## Ischgl99 (Aug 28, 2021)

I have a 1236T I got last January and love it, and glad I got it when I did with all the recent price increases.  I also got three phase, not difficult to wire up, but you do need to change out a number of things to make it operate properly before using it.

I removed the control panel from the back of the lathe and mounted one on my stand so that it was accessible if needed.  I have a separate panel for the VFDs for my lathe and mill.  Changing speeds on the lathe is easy, so I did not add variable speed to that yet, instead I have a switch to reduce the speed in half and also adding a fast deceleration time for threading.  That also gives me roughly the lower speeds without having to change the belts.  

Hopefully you don’t have to wait too long!


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## Just for fun (Aug 28, 2021)

Thanks guys,

B2, I would like to see what you have did but since I don't have my lathe yet I don't know what kind of room I have in the rear panel.  At this point I am planning an external cabinet to house the VFD and controls.

I have almost all of the materials figured except for a potentiometer and the cabling, some of that I can get locally.


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## Just for fun (Aug 29, 2021)

I have all the material ordered for the VFD, it all showed in stock so time will tell if it all shows up.

I'm looking at a view things for the mill since it will be here first.   I am thinking about getting a 20 piece set of End Mills to start with.  Are the Accusize end mills a good choice for a beginner or should I look for something different.  The set I'm looking at is #1810-0100



			Amazon.com
		


Also looking at this device for tramming the head.






						SST Mill & Lathe Adjustable Tramming - Squaring System - - Amazon.com
					

SST Mill & Lathe Adjustable Tramming - Squaring System - - Amazon.com



					www.amazon.com
				



​


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## Cletus (Aug 29, 2021)

I pretty much like the Accusize stuff.  I've used those TiN coated ones on the CNC mini-Mill with success and more and more moving to their M42 8% Cobalt Tialn offerings which I'm really liking, especially their roughing endmills.  Other than that, Maritool solid carbide endmills here in the shop.

As for tramming, I have this badboy, and Ive gotten pretty quick with it, plus I think it's more versatile:


			Amazon.com


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## B2 (Aug 30, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> Thanks guys,
> 
> B2, I would like to see what you have did but since I don't have my lathe yet I don't know what kind of room I have in the rear panel.  At this point I am planning an external cabinet to house the VFD and controls.
> 
> I have almost all of the materials figured except for a potentiometer and the cabling, some of that I can get locally.


Hi Tim, 
You can see a picture of my installation at:








						VFD Questions
					

Hello MKSJ, I plan to purchase the PM1440GT lathe with the 3PH 3HP motor option. I am also considering using a Yaskawa CIMR-VUBA-0012-FAA VFD to control the motor rather than the Hitachi WJ200 VFD. The Yaskawa is designed to accept single phase input of 240 VAC and convert to the 3PH output and...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




You have to click on the attachment and then the picture will open.  I did not really use any of  the electronic components that came with the lathe. Certainly not the relays/ contactors or even the transformer.   You do not need them as the VFD does all of the work!

I looked at the stand accessory at PM for your PM-1236T lathe.  If you purchased this stand then you have a front door on the machine.  While the door is not shown in the pictures of the lathe it is shown in the pictures of the stand! This cabinet might be large enough for a VFD design even with a braking resistor.   An email to Matt might be all that is needed to get the stand details...

 Anyway it would certainly be nice to have this front door easy access to the controls rather than going to the back of the lathe and there would be alot of potential advantages.  My installation has a Plexiglas cover so that I can look in and see what the VFD is doing without opening the cabinet.  The VFD LED display is informative as to frequency..... or error code if there is a problem.   However, my lathe is not out in the middle of a room where the back would have easy access so the Plexiglass helps.  It is almost up against a wall.  

I just put the finishing touches on a parts list and associated URLs and am now working on choosing a few pictures of the various parts of the assembly.   Then I just have to figure out how to post it properly.

Dave


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## yota (Sep 1, 2021)

this guy makes these tramming tools himself in his workshop in Boring Oregon.  there are a few youtube vids by prominent machinists endorsing it.





__





						Spindle Square & Tramming Tool – Boring Research LLC
					





					boringresearch.com


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## Cletus (Sep 1, 2021)

Very nice looking, but I have no issues tramming by the age old method using a dial test indicator on an arm attached to the spindle. That said, IMHO I think this is a far more versatile setup (your mileage may differ) 


			Amazon.com


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## Just for fun (Sep 2, 2021)

I haven't ordered anything yet, I have the Accusize indicator in my cart but I like that the unit that yota posted is made in the USA other then the dial indicators are made in China.

Where is the Accusize stuff made?


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## Just for fun (Sep 2, 2021)

So on my lathe, PM1236T, how much room do I need at the tailstock end.  Let me rephrase, I'm planning on placing the lathe perpendicular to a wall.  How much room should I leave between the tailstock and the wall?  I'm thinking 12".

Tim


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## Larry$ (Sep 2, 2021)

I don't know if you need any more than enough room to operate the tailstock handwheel. I need more room on mine to access the circulating pump. I also need room behind my lathe to access the electrical panel and main power switch. And if I ever need to the motor and belts. Depending on your layout it might be nice to have a work surface, maybe the top of a roll around tool cabinet at the end.


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## yota (Sep 2, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> I haven't ordered anything yet, I have the Accusize indicator in my cart but I like that the unit that yota posted is made in the USA other then the dial indicators are made in China.
> 
> Where is the Accusize stuff made?


you can buy it without the dial indicators and use your own.


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## yota (Sep 2, 2021)

yota said:


> you can buy it without the dial indicators and use your own.


or you can make the tool yourself on your new mill.  just a bar with a pin and some holes.


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## Just for fun (Sep 2, 2021)

I would think that I should have the mill trammed before making a measuring tool like that. 

Still a good idea though,  as that does give me something to make.


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## Just for fun (Sep 2, 2021)

Larry$ said:


> I don't know if you need any more than enough room to operate the tailstock handwheel. I need more room on mine to access the circulating pump. I also need room behind my lathe to access the electrical panel and main power switch. And if I ever need to the motor and belts. Depending on your layout it might be nice to have a work surface, maybe the top of a roll around tool cabinet at the end.



Thanks Larry,  

The way I have planned is the whole back of the lathe will accessible.  The trail stock will be toward the wall.   If I'm standing at the lathe the mill will be behind me, basically over my right shoulder and a roll around tool storage/ work bench will be to my left. 

Thanks for the input by the way.


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## Larry$ (Sep 2, 2021)

I've always tried to arrange things so any walk space has two or 3 (U shape) sided use. Commonly used things within arms reach of where they are used. But reality creeps in sometimes and compromises get made. Storage should be adjustable, expandable. Not all drawers should be the same depth. Most shallow but there are always those things that are bulkier. My shop is in the corner of a woodshop, dust is a problem. So I try to keep things enclosed. I cover my lathe before I leave to keep the way oil from getting sticky with dust. I keep accumulating things. Organization gets harder and harder.


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## yota (Sep 2, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> I would think that I should have the mill trammed before making a measuring tool like that.
> 
> Still a good idea though,  as that does give me something to make.


good point.


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## Just for fun (Sep 7, 2021)

I've been cleaning out a corner in the shop and working on a layout,  it's going to be a little tight but I think it will work.


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## Tipton1965 (Sep 7, 2021)

Wow that is tight.  Might want to remove the handle for the knee on the mill when you run the lathe.  Otherwise you might get an unexpected prostate check.


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## Just for fun (Sep 7, 2021)

My calculations may be off a bit.  Playing with it some more in Fusion 360, I  may have closer to 35".  Still going to be tight, but I am going to try it before taking the drastic measure of moving all the other stuff on that wall.


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## B2 (Sep 7, 2021)

I have the PM940M CNC + base, which looks smaller than your Mill, but which weight about the same.  Mine maybe a little heavier with the CNC cabinet (~200#).  Anway, I put my machine on wheels and when I get where I want it I block it off the wheels.  My machine is also in a tight place in my basement.   I have not regretted this as I have had to move it a couple of time and it is easy to lift and roll.  My floor jack just slides under the stand  so dealing with the blocks is easy. The table and stand I make flat, but I tilt the whole mill a bit so that the coolant will run to the collection tray corner and back down to the pump.


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## B2 (Sep 11, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> Thanks guys,
> 
> B2, I would like to see what you have did but since I don't have my lathe yet I don't know what kind of room I have in the rear panel.  At this point I am planning an external cabinet to house the VFD and controls.
> 
> I have almost all of the materials figured except for a potentiometer and the cabling, some of that I can get locally.


Hi Tim,  
I finally posted my VFD conversion with solid state control electronics rather than relays.  
Per your request you will find it here.  









						VFD conversion via solid state electronic components.  PM1440GT, VFD, 3-phase
					

VFD conversion using solid state electronic components.  I finally finished documenting my PM1440GT lathe VFD conversion and want share it.   It took me longer to write this up than it did to actually build the new electronics! (Are these sorts of things every really finished?)  I apologize...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




Dave


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## Just for fun (Sep 12, 2021)

Thanks Dave,   Looking firsts to checking it out!


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## Just for fun (Nov 18, 2021)

So,  Precision Matthews has no idea when they may get the 835s in stock.

I'm thinking of upgrading to the 935TS 3PH. What are the advantages and extra cost of going with the 935TS 3PH vs the 935TV.  I know there is a greater RPM range for one.

Currently the 935TS is $600 cheaper then the 935TV so that would offset some of the cost of having to buy an additional VFD and supplies.


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## KevinM (Nov 18, 2021)

The "V" is for variable speed, The "S" is for step pulley (fix speeds).

Note text in red.  


			https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-935ts-tv/


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## Just for fun (Nov 18, 2021)

KevinM said:


> The "V" is for variable speed, The "S" is for step pulley (fix speeds).
> 
> Note text in red.
> 
> ...


Yeah,  I got that.  I just see a few people going with the S unit in 3PH and installing an external VFD.  I was wondering what some of the other advantages were other then the RPM range.


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## jwmelvin (Nov 18, 2021)

Generally speaking with the mechanical variable drive you will be getting full horsepower at all speeds whereas in VFD variable you lose power at reduced speeds. The step pulleys offset much of this though. 

Mechanical variable has some additional potential for wear/maintenance. The step pulley takes more time to change speeds when a pulley change is required (less than a minute extra).

My old step pulley mill has a VFD and covers all speeds 40-4200 rpm using VFD, pulleys, and back gears.

Oh also: the mechanical-variable approach will be a little louder in my experience (none of which is with new, more modern systems). But the VFD makes some higher-pitch whine that many find objectionable. That whine can be minimized by running a higher carrier frequency in the VFD. Mine was bad at default and just fine after one parameter adjustment.


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## davidpbest (Nov 18, 2021)

I have a PM-935TS driven by a Hitachi WJ200-015SF VFD and have never had to change belt positions to get 50-3700 RPM.  Personally, I would not want mechanical variable speed because of the longer term maintenance issues.  To get a sense for that aspect watch _*this video*_.


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## jwmelvin (Nov 18, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> I have a PM-935TS driven by a Hitachi WJ200-015SF VFD and have never had to change belt positions to get 50-3700 RPM.



That’s a good point - that modern motors can handle a wider frequency range, reducing or apparently eliminating the need to change pulleys. David, what frequency range do you use for the VFD?


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## davidpbest (Nov 18, 2021)

jwmelvin said:


> That’s a good point - that modern motors can handle a wider frequency range, reducing or apparently eliminating the need to change pulleys. David, what frequency range do you use for the VFD?


30-100 Hz if I remember correctly - it's been a while since I set up the VFD.  On my 1340 I have a vector-rated Baldor motor and can run that with a much broader range (20-130) and not loose torque or HP.


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## Cletus (Nov 18, 2021)

I've seen that video and glad I chose the TS.  So far, never had to change belt position. I love my PM-935TS


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## Just for fun (Nov 18, 2021)

Thanks for the video Dave.  That doesn't look like a fun job.


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## Just for fun (Nov 18, 2021)

I made the deal this afternoon and ordered the 935TS 3 phase, I also ordered a Hitachi VFD at the same time.


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## jwmelvin (Nov 18, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> 30-100 Hz if I remember correctly - it's been a while since I set up the VFD.  On my 1340 I have a vector-rated Baldor motor and can run that with a much broader range (20-130) and not loose torque or HP.


I apologize in advance for being pedantic, and should have done some estimates before asking; I'm not intending to argue. It seems likely that the range you describe (50-3700 rpm) would require a pulley change according to the PM-935 manual (page 10). My mill runs at very similar speeds on the four pulleys.

Let's say the VFD runs 22-120 Hz. On pulley 2 in back gear (135 rpm at 60 Hz), that would get you 50 to 270 rpm. High gear would go from 400 to 2230 rpm. That's a wide range, but I still could see wanting to change pulleys, and that frequency range would be pushing some motors.

Now in reality, I agree that precise speed isn't so important for most things. I seem to keep my belt on pulley 2 or 3 most of the time (I run the VFD from 30-90 Hz, as I'm trying to be kind to the 40-year-old motor). I made a little chart to let me know the min and max for each pulley, as I don't have a tachometer built in, just a handheld one:






David, I will say that your approach to your machines and tooling is an inspiration. I appreciate how much you put into both what you do and how you share it. Thank you.



Just for fun said:


> I made the deal this afternoon and ordered the 935TS 3 phase, I also ordered a Hitachi VFD at the same time.


Congrats! It will be awesome.


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## Larry$ (Nov 18, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> I was wondering what some of the other advantages were other then the RPM range.


I've got a Jet 949 knee mill that has two ranges and variable speed. I don't know what a VSD would add but I sure wouldn't like changing belts. The gear & variable speed drive keeps all the power/torque regardless of what speed. I'll never have to figure out why the electronics isn't working.

Yes changing the VS belt is a PIA but I bought a well used mill. The belt was original from 2004 when it was made. Bought the belt for $60 and 2 hours for 2 of us to change. It will out live me.


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## davidpbest (Nov 19, 2021)

jwmelvin said:


> I apologize in advance for being pedantic, and should have done some estimates before asking; I'm not intending to argue. It seems likely that the range you describe (50-3700 rpm) would require a pulley change according to the PM-935 manual (page 10). My mill runs at very similar speeds on the four pulleys.
> 
> Let's say the VFD runs 22-120 Hz. On pulley 2 in back gear (135 rpm at 60 Hz), that would get you 50 to 270 rpm. High gear would go from 400 to 2230 rpm. That's a wide range, but I still could see wanting to change pulleys, and that frequency range would be pushing some motors.
> 
> ...



OK, I couldn't stand the controversy any longer, so I went to the shop and made a video of my PM-935TS with factory 3-phase motor, Mark Jacobs control system which includes the Hitachi VFD.  Here's the link to the video - starts out with the backgear *dis*engaged:


__
		https://flic.kr/p/2mKKwQu

As you can see in the video, without moving the belt, I get 54-436 RPM with the backgear engaged, and 474-3780 RPM with the backgear disengaged.   Those speeds are with the belt positions configured as shown in the photo below.  I honestly do not remember the parameters I put into the VFD, but they can't be far off from what I posted above.  Clearly there is a broader speed range possible in both directions with the belt repositioned, but I haven't needed to touch it in the 3+ years it's been in service.






FWIW, I have found the speed charts in the PM manuals to be imprecise, and off by a substantial amount on some of the benchtop mills sold by PM.  Hope this helps.

David


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## Cletus (Nov 19, 2021)

I'm running the above belt ratio (shown by David), Hitachi VFD at Frequency Lower Limit A062= 0.00, Frequency Upper Limit A061= 120 and realizing a range of 0 to 3716 RPM (back-gear disengaged). Of course, as expected, torque drops off considerably at the lower speeds, but this has worked just fine for me and never used any other pulley ratios or used the back-gear yet.
My "JOG" toggle switch sets A038 = 4 Jog Frequency, 4.0 Hz and this gives me 123RPM which I often use for power-tapping.


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## davidpbest (Nov 19, 2021)

With the 10:1 gear reduction provided by the backgear, the spindle absolutely has more than enough torque to throw the machine completely out of tram and sheer off a 3" tap driven to the bottom of a blind hole.  So lack of power or torque with the backgear engaged is a non-issue even at something like 30 Hz.  With the back gear disengaged, at 30 Hz., the limitation you'll encounter with an end mill or face mill is the rigidity of the machine - not lack of power or torque.  I can easily push my 935 grossly out of tram before power or torque become limiting factors.  This 935 is not a 6,000 pound K&T after all.

I have a Joystick jog function on my PM-1340 that outputs a fixed frequency, but on the mill, I wanted momentary tapping push buttons specifically for tapping - see photo below (green is forward, red is reverse).  This way I have the full range of speeds available for tapping which is helpful with varying materials, tap styles and diameters.  In back gear at 55 RPM this mill will easily drive a 1" tapered (ever enlarging) NPT tap into 3/8" 1018.


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## jwmelvin (Nov 19, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> As you can see in the video, without moving the belt, I get 54-436 RPM with the backgear engaged, and 474-3780 RPM with the backgear disengaged. … Hope this helps.



That’s pretty spectacular. 8:1 range through the VFD seems great. I guess the motor is pretty well suited to it. 

I will also note how wonderfully quiet your machine is, in all conditions. 

An impressive setup as always. I appreciate you taking the time to demonstrate. Do I remember correctly that, for your tachometer, you use a hall-effect sensor and magnet at the spindle nose?

Thanks,
Jason


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## davidpbest (Nov 19, 2021)

jwmelvin said:


> Do I remember correctly that, for your tachometer, you use a hall-effect sensor and magnet at the spindle nose?



Yes, four magnets actually to get more precise and quick indication of the speed at low RPM’s. Not all Tachs can be programmed to specify number of magnetic pulses per RPM, but the one I built can be. Hall effect sensor ring build is *documented here*.


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## Just for fun (Nov 19, 2021)

Pretty Cool David,  Beyond my skill set at this point, but I can see that is something I would like make someday!

Tim


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## B2 (Nov 20, 2021)

Impressive David!  I just took the easy way out.  I put 10 magnets on my spindle mounted Hall Effect system and then the inexpensive 6 digit tach display that fits in my front panel shows 10x the RPM.  This way I can go very slow and get a good reading.  I.e. at 1RPM the display shows 10.  Mentally just shift the decimal place one over.  Pictures at:  Photo 10a of  https://www.hobby-machinist.com/goto/post?id=882916 and more photos at https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/milling-nylon-backer-board.95602/

I recently also added a 6 digit counter to the same Hall sensor and so when I turn slowly I can count the number of turns/10.  It also wired up simply so that with a single switch I an set it up so that it does not start counting until the proximity sensor trips.  This way one can tell how many revolutions the spindle makes while the lathe is braking....i.e. how much farther does the tool travel after the proximity sensor is tripped. I.e. don't want to run the tool into the spindle chuck ..... so this determines how to set up the proximity sensor location.


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## Just for fun (Nov 20, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> With the 10:1 gear reduction provided by the backgear, the spindle absolutely has more than enough torque to throw the machine completely out of tram and sheer off a 3" tap driven to the bottom of a blind hole.  So lack of power or torque with the backgear engaged is a non-issue even at something like 30 Hz.  With the back gear disengaged, at 30 Hz., the limitation you'll encounter with an end mill or face mill is the rigidity of the machine - not lack of power or torque.  I can easily push my 935 grossly out of tram before power or torque become limiting factors.  This 935 is not a 6,000 pound K&T after all.
> 
> I have a Joystick jog function on my PM-1340 that outputs a fixed frequency, but on the mill, I wanted momentary tapping push buttons specifically for tapping - see photo below (green is forward, red is reverse).  This way I have the full range of speeds available for tapping which is helpful with varying materials, tap styles and diameters.  In back gear at 55 RPM this mill will easily drive a 1" tapered (ever enlarging) NPT tap into 3/8" 1018.
> 
> ...


That all sounds good, I can see the E Stop, the two position brake switch, Spindle speed, and the two momentary switch's for tapping, but is the Potentiometer above the red button?


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## davidpbest (Nov 20, 2021)

There are two potentiometers:  

one immediately below the RPM display marked “SPINDLE SPEED” that controls the VFD output frequency, and 
another to the right of the RPM display that can be used to tell the tach how many pulses per revolution from the Hall effect sensor, or when pressed, will alternate the tach display to SFM and allow diameter inputs.
The latter function is useful for boring and fly cutter use on the mill, but more helpful on the lathe.  I have the identical tach (mounted differently) on my PM-1340GT which you can see below.


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## davidpbest (Nov 20, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> That all sounds good, I can see the E Stop, the two position brake switch, Spindle speed, and the two momentary switch's for tapping, but is the Potentiometer above the red button?


I should also add that the blue lighted push button in the lower left is the on/off switch for the spindle ring-light that’s built into the Hall effect sensor ring mentioned previously.


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## Just for fun (Nov 20, 2021)

Very nice,  Thanks for the info.

But why would you need to tell the tach how many pulses per revolution from the Hall effect sensor.


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## davidpbest (Nov 21, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> But why would you need to tell the tach how many pulses per revolution from the Hall effect sensor.


This tach is designed to allow for any number of hall effect pulses to represent one revolution.  On my mill, I have four magnets on the spindle, equally spaced, and at (for example) 60 RPM, the tach is seeing 4 pulses per revolution of the spindle, and the tach needs to know that ther are 4 pulses per RPM to be able to calculate the actual speed of the spindle.  On my lathe, I have 8 magnets because I often tap at 8-20 RPM using the Jog function, and want a timely and accurate representation of that speed.

In some applications, 1 pulse per revolution is sufficient accuracy, whereas in other applications 2 or 5 or 10 might be appropriate.  Consider this tach on a spindle shaper where the spindle speed never falls below 1,000 RPM.  In that situation, one magnet pulse per revolution is sufficient to give a timely and accurate reading.   Now consider a situation where this tach is used to accurately measure the speed of a slow turning element (the X-axis lead screw for instance) rotating at 2 RPM (not uncommon).  In that scenario, with only 1 magnet, the tach is seeing only 2 pulses per minute and it won't be able to accurately resolve the RPM in less than 1.5 minutes.  In that application putting 10 magnets on the spindle at 2 RPM would provide the tach with 20 pulses per revolution, and it could then accurately determine the speed after 3 pulses or in ~5 seconds.  Now consider the low slow spindle speed is fluctuating - you'd want even more pulses per revolution in order to have a timely and accurate reading of the RPM at any instant.  In all these situations, the tach needs to know the number of magnetic sensor pulses per revolution in order to calculate the true RPM.

Does that help?


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## Cletus (Nov 21, 2021)

Very well presented


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## Just for fun (Nov 21, 2021)

Thanks David,  

The pulse per revolution and the RPM does make sense.   I'm not sure I understand your switch though.  If you have four magnets mounted on the spindle and I can see where that would come in handy.   I can follow along on the initial programming but I'm not following along on the switch.

In my mind, if you have four magnets mounted and you change the switch to only read one.  The tach would still read all four pulses from the magnets and read four times the actual speed. 

Tim


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## davidpbest (Nov 21, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> The pulse per revolution and the RPM does make sense.   I'm not sure I understand your switch though.


The switch has several uses.  It's a momentary push-switch and a potentiometer combined.  

Push and let go, and it switches the unit from displaying RPM to displaying the calculated SFM (surface feet/minute) or SMM (surface meters per minute).  
When in SFM/SMM mode, a small red LED to the left of the switch illuminates indicating it's displaying SFM/SMM.  
When in RPM mode, turning the dial has no impact.  
When in SFM mode, turning the dial will display and let you set the diameter of the part or tool (0.01" to 99.99" or 0.1-999.9 mm).  
The unit calculates the SFM/SMM based on the entered diameter and the RPM it's sensing.  SFM = (RPM x (diameter in hundredths of inches) x 314) / 120000.  SMM = (RPM x (diameter in tenths of millimeters) x 314) / 1000000
Press and hold the momentary switch for 5 seconds or more, and by turning the dial, input the number of pulses (1-90) that represent 1 RPM, and you can switch between metric and imperial readout for the SFM/SMM display function.  
All settings are saved in nonvolatile ROM and faithfully restored on power up.
This tach can use a variety of sensors in including a hall effect to detect magnets passing by, or other sensors that optically (IR usually) or gear tooth sensors that send pulses.


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## Just for fun (Nov 21, 2021)

Wow David,  That impressive and down right cool.  Thanks for the information.

Tim


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## Cletus (Nov 21, 2021)

We can expect nothing less from David P Best!      .....I really admire his attention to detail and methodology


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## Just for fun (Nov 21, 2021)

I agree 100%, Some of the nicest machines I have seen and some of the coolest technology along with it!  Cheers to a Great Job David!


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## davidpbest (Nov 22, 2021)

Cletus said:


> We can expect nothing less from David P Best!      .....I really admire his attention to detail and methodology


Thanks guys. At this stage in my life, my primary motivation is helping others, so I hope that's coming through.  With regard to the tach I described, I did not design the beast, I just built it from published information.  It was designed by Henry Arnold, and for a period, he was selling a DIY kit (similar concept to Clough42's ELS) that included the PCB, a custom ASIC chip, and a bunch of discrete components (resistors/caps/etc.) along with detailed instructions.  The hand soldering was a challenge given the size.  Henry stopped selling the kits quite a while ago, but has left breadcrumbs on Thingiverse _*here*_.   I used to build HeathKits as a kid, so tackling this was right up my alley.  If someone wants to build one of these, DM me - I think I have the parts on hand for one unit.  When finished, this is what the thing looks like, and you need to figure out how to mount it.  The display/potentiometer is on the back side.


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## Cletus (Nov 22, 2021)

Ahhh, HEATHKIT! ...So many memories. I still have Heathkit stuff in my lab which I built 49 years ago, never been opened since, still functional and still holding decent calibration. Don't really use them anymore as they've been replaced by more modern instrumentation, but nostalgic bits of my entry into a wonderful, successful and fulfilling career!    
_......Apologies for veering off topic guys, could not resist!_


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## Just for fun (Feb 24, 2022)

It sounds like Monday will be the day.  I'm pretty excited as one can expect but there is some drama to go along with it.  The county has put weight restrictions on the road I live on.  I talked with the trucking company today, the plan is to meet with the trucking company at the local equipment rental location downtown and transfer the equipment from there truck to my flatbed car trailer.   I'm not excited about that venture, but I'm sure it will work out.  Then, once I get it home, I will have to unload them with my Kubota tractor and get them in the shop.  The good thing it is only a two- and half-mile road trip.

Tim


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## davidpbest (Feb 25, 2022)

Good luck with the transport.  Be safe, the 935 is too heavy. I’m so glad you ditched the 835 idea for the 935.


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## Cletus (Feb 25, 2022)

Sounds like a plan Tim.  I'm excited for you dude!


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## woodchucker (Feb 25, 2022)

what's the trailer rated at? 
what's the load?
Worried that the axle might not be up to the task.
Can you do one at a time?


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## Just for fun (Feb 25, 2022)

It's a double axle 7000# car trailer, weight wise I will be fine.   Getting both machines on there at the same time might be a problem.  If that's the case,  I'm sure it won't be a problem to haul one at a time. 

Tim


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## Just for fun (Mar 1, 2022)

Both the mill and lathe are in the shop, almost went without a hitch.  My tractor was big enough for the lathe but would not even budge the mill.  I called the rental place to rent there offroad forklift, he told me he just rented it out for 6 months.  But then luck was on my side, He asked how long I needed it?  5 minutes maybe 10 at the most.  They had just loaded it up to take it away.  He had is driver bring it and move the mill into the shop.

All loaded up and ready to go.






Bringing the mill into the shop.





Uncreated and ready to start cleaning.


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## Tipton1965 (Mar 1, 2022)

Nice!


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## Cletus (Mar 1, 2022)

Very nice!


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## woodchucker (Mar 1, 2022)

you are so lucky the guy had the forethought to ask.
looks like you will be busy for a while cleaning them up.
pics when they are ready to use...

enjoy your new toys.


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## Gaffer (Mar 1, 2022)

They did you a solid! Congrats!!!!


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## litewings (Mar 2, 2022)

Congrats on the double haul! You've got some cleaning and setup to keep you busy for a while.


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## Just for fun (Mar 6, 2022)

I have the lathe all set up and working, I tried my best to get it leveled, It's pretty close.  I'll work on it some more later.  It took longer than I thought to get all electrics working.  Thanks to Mark @mksj for all of the assistance with the VFD and lathe wiring.  I still need to install the DRO but that will have to wait for a bit.  I did fire it up and made a few chips, nothing fancy.  I made a little spacer and other than that just turned down some down a shaft some.  My greenness really shines.  Sense I have never operated a lathe before it has been a real learning experience.  I bought the master turning kit from PM when I ordered the lathe, of course no identification of what cutter does what.  LOL

I did get the mill off the pallet today and started reading through the manual and looking at all the controls.  At the same time putting a plan together to get it across the shop and into its more permanent location.  That sucker is heavy!

Anyway, here are a couple of the photos of the lathe just to show that it really did happen!


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## B2 (Mar 7, 2022)

@davidpbest 's book on insert tooling... for which tools cut what etc..    "Introduction to Indexable Tooling for the Metal Lathe: A User Guide"  Nice pictures too.  

Dave L.


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## Just for fun (Mar 7, 2022)

Yep, I have that book.  The kit came with 5 tool bit holders, three of them I can identify.

These two I don't know what they are used for.

SCKCR10-3B and a SCBCR10-3B


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## xr650rRider (Mar 7, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> Yep, I have that book.  The kit came with 5 tool bit holders, three of them I can identify.
> 
> These two I don't know what they are used for.
> 
> SCKCR10-3B and a SCBCR10-3B



From PM website

*Items included in this set:*

1 PC SCLCR10-3 5/8″ Shank Right Hand Turning Tool
1 PC SCLCL10-3 5/8″ Shank Left Hand Turning Tool
1 PC SCMCN10-3 5/8″ Shank Straight Turning Tool
1 PC SCBCR10-3 Offset Holder with 5/8″ Shank, to use the other normally unused edge of the CCMT/CCGT Insert, so you can get maximum use out of the insert!
1 PC SCKCR10-3 Also an offset holder for using the unused part of the CCMT/CCGT Insert!
1 PC S08Q-SCLCR-3  1/2″ Shank Boring Bar
1 PC S12R-SCLCR-3   3/4″ Shank Boring Bar
10 PC CCGT 300 Series INSERT FOR Aluminum/Brass (Silver Color Inserts)
10 PC CCMT 300 Series INSERT FOR STEEL/Stainless Steel (Gold Color Inserts)
6 PC EXTRA SCREWS FOR INSERTS
Insert Wrench
Aluminum Case as shown

Replacement inserts are the common CCGT or CCMT Series inserts. For example, CCMT-321

This was for the full turning and boring set.


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## Cletus (Mar 7, 2022)

Hmmm, sounds like a nice starter kit


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## Just for fun (Mar 7, 2022)

Thanks XR650,  I was just going to post the same thing.


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## paradox_pete (Mar 7, 2022)

The SCKCR holder is for facing the end of a part, and the SCBCR is for turning the diameter.  As noted above they both use the obtuse corner of the insert, saving the acute angle for when it's needed: i.e. turning to a shoulder, etc.

I use those tools for the initial operations on almost every piece I turn.  

-Pete


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## Just for fun (Mar 7, 2022)

Thanks for the info Pete.

Tim


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## Just for fun (Mar 12, 2022)

I haven't had much time to play with the lathe yet, but I did get out there yesterday and learned how to make some threads.   Well, at least I was able to make some threads, but I still have a lot of learning to go to do it correctly.  For the most part yesterday, I just played around trying to turn down a rod trying to hit a particular size.  It tougher than I thought it would be.   Kind of reminded me of working with wood.  No matter how many times I cut it, it was always too short.  LOL.  I need to learn how to read the dials a little better.  I still feel pretty good for only being the second time in my life operating a lathe.

Tim


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## Just for fun (Mar 12, 2022)

While cleaning up the mill I found that only one of the X axis locks were working.  I found that one of the push rods between the lock lever and the gib was missing.  After a little trial an error I was able to get the original one out, the rusty one on the right.  I was able to make a another one for the one missing.  Now they are both working!

Tim


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## Just for fun (Mar 16, 2022)

Well, I made one of the captive nut puzzles.   It turned out okay.   I am happy with everything but the threads.  My guess is I was taking too big a bite when threading.  I don't know for sure but they look kind of ripped and not cut. 

I also learned that I couldn't thread the total distance because the carbide bit holder would hit the boss on the right side.


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## Willy Estevez (Mar 17, 2022)

Saludos


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## Willy Estevez (Mar 17, 2022)

Hermoso


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## Just for fun (Mar 19, 2022)

The mill has been moved into its final location!  Now to start wiring all the control circuits, installing the power feeds and the DRO.


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## Cletus (Mar 20, 2022)

Congratulations, a thing of beauty!


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## davidpbest (Mar 20, 2022)

Looking great.  It's interesting that your mill base has a different configuration than mine.


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## Cletus (Mar 20, 2022)

Yup, seems like they changed the base casting, mine's like that too.


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## Just for fun (Mar 30, 2022)

I have it up and running now.  I have all the controls wired and working.   I have all three of the power feed installed,  still need to install the limit switches.  

I still have the power draw bar and DRO to install. 

I think I'll install the DRO first then move onto the limit switches for for the power feeds.


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## davidpbest (Mar 30, 2022)

Looking good.  Where’s the DRO?


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## Just for fun (Mar 30, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> Looking good.  Where’s the DRO?



Still in the box...... Won't be for long.


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## Just for fun (Apr 5, 2022)

Started on the DRO for the mill yesterday, worked on it quite a bit today and finely have the head mounted and the Y access complete.  Along with the power feed stops.












This is after I changed thing from my first install.  At first I lost 1.75" of travel on the Y access, I only gained about .5".  I'm still down about 1.25" of travel on the right side.  I'm sure it won't be a problem for a while if it ever becomes one, making new brackets will solve the problem.






I made the little aluminum bracket on the right to mount the Y access stop switch.






Then I mounted the rail on it's side to conserve some room and make things line up.  I still need to install the chip guard and do something with the wiring.






Because I rolled the switch I had to reverse the internal switches.  






Slowly, I'm making progress.

Tim


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