# Southbend 9".



## Strtspdlx (Apr 29, 2015)

I just purchased this southbend 9" machine no tooling and the carriage has a good amount of play I'm hoping I can shim it or something of that nature. If anyone has pointers please let me know. Plans as of right now are tear down and inspect for damages and clean this thing because it's absolutely horrendous. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




I also need to build a new stand for it as this one is junk and I'll be surprised if the bed isn't twisted. 
Also what is the correct way to remove the chuck. I do not see a stop to aid in removal. 

Regards-Carlo


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## Mark_f (Apr 29, 2015)

It looks like it should clean up nicely. What do you mean by "a lot of play"?


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 29, 2015)

On the front of the carriage toward the dial I'd say more then .050. Back is good though. In curious if it's supposed to be that way as I do not see a bearing plate. 


Regards-Carlo


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## brino (Apr 30, 2015)

Hi Carlo,

It's plenty dirty, but looks to be in good shape. Looks like a good project, and a great lathe when complete.

What kind of "play" is there? Does the front of the carriage move left/right or up/down?
There is a carriage lock that can be used during parting and facing. It's the square-head bolt on the top of the carriage to the right of the cross-slide. On my SouthBend I can tell that the ways are worn more near the headstock than the tailstock because if I "snug" this lock to limit play near the headstock than the carriage is too tight towards the tailstock. Wear like this is normal, but this is a great tool-less way to judge a lathe.



Strtspdlx said:


> Also what is the correct way to remove the chuck. I do not see a stop to aid in removal.



On mine I engage the back gear and use a wood handle (usually a wire brush) between chuck jaws. However, if your chuck has not been removed in a loooooooong time too much force could break a tooth on the back gear, and another way should be found. Maybe a strap wrench around the pulley.

-brino


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 30, 2015)

Carriage has play up and down in the front. 


Regards-Carlo


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## pineyfolks (Apr 30, 2015)

The cutting forces will be pushing down on the front of the carriage. Their are adjustments on the back side underneath the carriage you can adjust.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 30, 2015)

pineyfolks said:


> The cutting forces will be pushing down on the front of the carriage. Their are adjustments on the back side underneath the carriage you can adjust.


I had thought that I just wanted to be certain before I up and sold my other lathe that this one would be of use to me and it didn't have any major issues. 


Regards-Carlo


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 30, 2015)

Well I found that I have a nice 5" cushman chuck that came with the machine. Was filled with brass like everything else. Cleaned it out an voila! Like brand new. 


Regards-Carlo


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## brino (Apr 30, 2015)

Strtspdlx said:


> Well I found that I have a nice 5" cushman chuck that came with the machine. Was filled with brass like everything else. Cleaned it out an voila! Like brand new.



Excellent, that's great!

Did you get the chuck off?

-brino


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 30, 2015)

Yes I did. I engaged back gears with the bull gear pin still engaged and put a wrench between the jaws and smacked the end of the wrench with my palm after a few tries it broke free. I did notice a tooth on the bull gear missing though. 


Regards-Carlo


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## Strtspdlx (May 2, 2015)

Would anyone have an idea what the value of a lathe like this may be? I fear I may have paid too much. 
Also finally got to cleaning. The degreaser I use seems to be a little too caustic for the paint on this machine. 
	

		
			
		

		
	






Regards-Carlo


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## Ulma Doctor (May 2, 2015)

it kinda depends on how much you paid for it in regards to what it's worth.
if you paid much more than 600, you paid too much for an incomplete unit...
if you paid less, you did OK.

i'm not really the one to advocate for the parting out of machines, 
but, you can easily make whatever you spent back, and then some.
if you did think the project is worthy of abandonment due to unforeseen wear and pieced it out,
i can assure there are no shortages of people trying to fix old iron and the parts would be sold easily.
good luck in either direction you choose.


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## spongerich (May 2, 2015)

Strtspdlx said:


> Would anyone have an idea what the value of a lathe like this may be? I fear I may have paid too much.
> Also finally got to cleaning. The degreaser I use seems to be a little too caustic for the paint on this machine.
> 
> 
> ...



Assuming it's not too horribly worn, $800 or so would seem reasonable to me.
It looks complete and just the threading dials go for close to $100 on eBay.


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## Smithdoor (May 2, 2015)

FYI most parts and tooling work on both 9A and 10K lathes
This helps in finding tooling and chucks

Dave


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## spongerich (May 2, 2015)

Ulma Doctor said:


> i'm not really the one to advocate for the parting out of machines,
> but, you can easily make whatever you spent back, and then some.



I like to think of it as organ donation.  A worn out marginally useful machine can give new life to a dozen better and more useful machines.
It's not  like a SB 9" is a rare specimen.. South Bend made them by the hundreds of thousands.


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## Strtspdlx (May 2, 2015)

Okay wow I guess I didn't do too bad then. The machine is complete it may not have a few accessories but everything is there for it to function and do what it was designed too. And as far as I can tell there isn't too much wear it's just so dirty it's hard to see certain things and trying to get everything to work is proving to be a task. I doubt I'd part it out as if likely keep it for aesthetic value of anything else. 


Regards-Carlo


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## brino (May 2, 2015)

Carlo,

From the start it looked like a good machine to me......just dirty as you say.
Hopefully a thorough cleaning will allow you to figure out all the functions.
To me the only thing obviously needed is a quick-change tool post, it's a keeper.

After striping, make sure you get something on to protect the bare metal.

-brino


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## Strtspdlx (May 3, 2015)

I didn't have stripping in mind when I went for cleaning but my degreaser took a lot of the paint off. This machine is small enough that it won't be too bad to strip and paint if I ever get that far. First I have to disassemble to clean reassemble and check functions and if all is well I may paint it. I need to figure out what this color is however and have some paint mixed for it. Luckily I work in a body shop so we can color match In house. Unfortunately we spray all waterborne base coats but clear should be protective enough. 


Regards-Carlo


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## spongerich (May 3, 2015)

I wouldn't be so quick to completely tear it down.... getting the spindle reinstalled and correctly shimmed can be a PITA.  There's also lots of taper pins here and there that can be troublesome. 

After a good cleaning, I'd evaluate things and just take apart only what's necessary.   If the spindle spins freely and quietly, I'd just flush out the oilers with some brake clean and re-lubricate with some decent spindle oil.      If you carefully flip the lathe upside down, you can get to the innards of the apron and gearbox.  If it's all in operating condition, clean and re-lube.


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## Strtspdlx (May 4, 2015)

The spindle is a bit stiff compared to my atlas machine which I just tore down and cleaned also as it was packed with Years of crud like this machine. My major concern is running it as is and causing damage. As in the condition I got it in it wasn't taken care of at all. The countershaft was nearly locked up tight all the oil had turned to varnish. I feel confident in tearing down and rebuilding. In all reality once torn down and clean so long as everything is good I can reassemble exactly as it came apart and it should be fine. The factory shims are still in the headstock and I'd like to see the condition of the bearings. 


Regards-Carlo


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## Strtspdlx (May 4, 2015)

Well here's some progress if you choose to call it that. This is the exact reason I prefer to tear down a machine that's been used before I put it into service. You can see the build up on the carriage bearing. The apron isn't too bad but the QCGB is caked with grease and so stiff I'm amazed I can move the levers. Oh wait I can't. I really need to invest in a parts washer. Also the QCGB has 54 stamped into it. Could that be an indication of the year? 
	

		
			
		

		
	








Regards-Carlo


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## Strtspdlx (May 4, 2015)

I forgot to add. The threading dial was locked up so I disassembled cleaned and lived and it works fine now my question is does the drive gear have to be indexed to the readings on the head? Or can it be set anywhere 


Regards-Carlo


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## JimDawson (May 4, 2015)

Strtspdlx said:


> I forgot to add. The threading dial was locked up so I disassembled cleaned and lived and it works fine now my question is does the drive gear have to be indexed to the readings on the head? Or can it be set anywhere
> 
> 
> Regards-Carlo




It can be set anywhere.  I normally leave mine disengaged when not threading to save on wear.
.
.


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## Strtspdlx (May 4, 2015)

I should've explained better I meant because I had to remove the drive gear from the dial via the setscrew on the gear. Should it be indexed. I doubt it needs to figured I'd ask anyway. 


Regards-Carlo


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## JimDawson (May 5, 2015)

I don't think it really makes any difference. You might need to rotate the dial a bit to get it to line up with the mark on the housing.  You'll just have to engage the half-nut and see where it lines up at.


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## marcusp323 (May 5, 2015)

Went through mine with a kit I bought off ebay for probably $65 or so. Came with all the felt strips a guy could use & bunches of other goodies plus a book with lots of info & pics in it. Had to clean various parts & pieces (though mine wasn't quite so rusty), but it still works fine after many years of service. Might check to see if those kits are still available.
Mark


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## Strtspdlx (May 5, 2015)

They are I'm just waiting for funds to free up. For now I'm going to flush out the felts best I can and see if I can't use it. I'm dying to use the machine but in the condition it's in I'd risk doing more damage. The only rust I see so far is in the ways and so far a purple scotch brite pad knocked 85% of it off. I have an atlas that was in much worse shape and that turned out fairly good. I just hate painting things. Especially because we're I have them now is a disgrace. 


Regards-Carlo


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## Chris Hamel (May 5, 2015)

My nine inch was built in the late 30s and yours looks older than mine.  The serial # will be stamped near the end of the bed.  If you go to yahoo groups there is southbendlathe group that has a database of serial #s


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## journeyman (May 6, 2015)

The most likely cause of sideways movement on the carriage is the rack on the front underside of the lathe bed is loose
They are usually secured with 3/16 UNC countersunk screws about 3/4" long. Remove the whole rack assembly and
seriously clean with a good wire brush replace the screws with alen headed screws which are easier to tighten but do make
sure they are not too long


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## Strtspdlx (May 6, 2015)

I'm afraid to try removing the rack. I removed the leads screw support and the QCGB and the screws proved to be a pain in the rear. I ended up having to heat two of them with a propane torch. But here's some
More progress pictures. The gear box was caked with grease and a few of the gears where locked up solid. As soon as I got it apart they came free though. I really don't want to paint it but I feel like I should because I'll likely never have it apart this far again. Does anyone know what the name or paint code of this white color is? 
	

		
			
		

		
	






Regards-Carlo


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## spongerich (May 6, 2015)

JimDawson said:


> I don't think it really makes any difference. You might need to rotate the dial a bit to get it to line up with the mark on the housing.  You'll just have to engage the half-nut and see where it lines up at.



If the lines don't line up, you can usually loosen the mounting bolt and slide the thread dial in or out (towards or away from the carriage) until it hits a line or number when the half nut is engaged.  I like mine timed just a tiny bit ahead, so by the time I react and throw the lever it ends up just a hair off of the line.


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## Strtspdlx (May 7, 2015)

spongerich said:


> If the lines don't line up, you can usually loosen the mounting bolt and slide the thread dial in or out (towards or away from the carriage) until it hits a line or number when the half nut is engaged.  I like mine timed just a tiny bit ahead, so by the time I react and throw the lever it ends up just a hair off of the line.


That makes sense. In reality where the head is in the dial corresponding to the marks makes no difference. So long as you engage it in the same spot as per the directions for the dial. I just wanted to be certain the teeth didn't have to line up with the dial in a particular way. 


Regards-Carlo


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## Surprman (May 7, 2015)

Carlo,

Don't worry about matching the paint color.  Paint it any color you want- it is your lathe and if you ever sell it to someone else, they can repainting it.  Just use nice, high quality pair.  (I used Sherwin- Williams, industrial alkyl enamel.    Not cheap, hard to buy, but really nice stuff.


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## Strtspdlx (May 7, 2015)

We used waterborne paints at the shop but I'm no painter. I'd like to use an epoxy and clear it for protection I don't know what's better enamel or epoxy. 

Also I went and took apart the cross slide and compound and I can't figure out how to remove the compound slide from the dovetails. When you fully retract it to slide it off the dovetails it has the front and if you go fully in it hits the lead screw mount. And I do not know how to remove the lead screws either. If anyone could help it would be greatly appreciated. 


Regards-Carlo


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## Surprman (May 8, 2015)

Carlo,

I recommend you get this kit (or at least the book- it is sold separately too). It tells all the tricks for the rebuild.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/150497978527?nav=SEARCH

Rick


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## Strtspdlx (May 8, 2015)

Surprman said:


> Carlo,
> 
> I recommend you get this kit (or at least the book- it is sold separately too). It tells all the tricks for the rebuild.
> 
> ...


I knew I should've paid the extra $20 I got the 39$ kit because all my felts are horrible and I really don't want to pull it apart again. 


Regards-Carlo


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## Ulma Doctor (May 9, 2015)

Strtspdlx said:


> Also I went and took apart the cross slide and compound and I can't figure out how to remove the compound slide from the dovetails. When you fully retract it to slide it off the dovetails it has the front and if you go fully in it hits the lead screw mount. And I do not know how to remove the lead screws either. If anyone could help it would be greatly appreciated.
> Regards-Carlo



Hi Carlo,
you'll need to remove the gibs from the compound to remove the sliding member as well as the captive screw for the bronze acme nut.
you'll need to remove the handles from the dial feedscrews, and then remove the captive nut.
the captive nuts have a weird screwhead.
i modified a large standard screwdriver by grinding clearance into the center of the blade, and forming the tool to remove the captive nut.
There is bits available from various tool manufacturers. McMaster Carr sells them too (Mcmaster is my favorite goto for oddball stuff)
Be careful, there is a small pin that wedges the handle to the shaft- keep an eye out for it. try to remove it first with a magnet(for ease)
i had to get a little rougher with my disassembly- it was highly stubborn, but it did come off with perseverance on my part.


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## Surprman (May 9, 2015)

I bought a set of giant  "screw driver" 1/2" sockets from HF and slotted the middle of the largest flat blade in the set to remove the captive nut.  My lathe needed more torque than a regular (modified) screw driver could provide (or maybe just more strength than my hand/arm could provide to the screwdriver   ).   I also found that I needed the special spanner wrench and an arbor press  to complete the disassembly of the lathe (the latter to take one of the gears off a shaft on the apron).  (That puny spanner wrench cost the most, but it worked well).   Take your time and don' rush the refurbishment.  I think those machines are like functional works of art.  You'll be happy with the results if you take your time.

Rick


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## Strtspdlx (May 9, 2015)

I'm trying to take care of all the details I haven't cut with this machine yet so I can't say wether it works or not we shall see I'm still trying to decide if I want to paint it or not and if I do what color. I really like the white that's on it and I have another lathe that's in need of paint also. But my atlas lathe needs a lot of work mostly in the carriage an apron. And it's in need of a QCGB. Now that I have a machine with one I wonder why I didn't fork out the $600 to buy it. I paid $350 for the southbend and 230 for my atlas. If the southbend works out better I'll sacrifice an inch of swing just for the gearbox


Regards-Carlo


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## Splat (May 9, 2015)

Hey Carlo. Yeah, get the felts and replace them now since you're tearing down the machine anyway. Do it right the first time, brother! BTW, your QCGB is clean compare to how mine was when I got my Heavy 10l!    BTW, you don't need a parts washer. Yeah, it'd be nice to have but I refurbished my lathe without one. I do have a slop sink so that helped but a lot of it was just either electrolytic cleaning or letting parks sit overnight in an Acetone/dishwashing soap solution. Whatever works, right?! Take your time and it'll be worth it in the end once you get'er up and running again. Keep us in the loop on the rebuild. We all get like expectant fathers when someone does one of these rebuild threads.


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## Strtspdlx (May 10, 2015)

Got the spindle apart. I was glad to see the bearing journals where clean and the bearings didn't look bad. The bullgear is missing a tooth but I think I'll be able to live with that it's amazing how dirty things can get. 
	

		
			
		

		
	






Regards-Carlo


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## pjf134 (May 12, 2015)

The gear box is the hardest thing to work on, of course mine was stuck because the oil dried up and everything got stuck and the taper pins were facing the wrong way to knock out so I had to spend extra time to do a teardown. Keep in mind that the levers on the gear box are right and lefts so make sure you try all gear selections before installing on lathe. I did know this and still got them reversed, but can be redone easily when off the lathe. Turn the side oilers on the head stock so you can put a piece of wire thru the hole to hold the spring loaded oilers down when installing spindle. Take off your gear selection chart so you don't lose the finish and if you do there is someone who can make a new one for you out there if you do want the lathe to look nice. The missing tooth can be fixed with some welding and filing and some other ways also, just needed to fill the gap so the next tooth does not come off. You could leave it go if you do not plan on using backgear that ofter.Good luck.
Paul


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## Strtspdlx (May 12, 2015)

Yeah I still have to figure out how the levers come apart. I think I'm going to hold off on paint I don't have the setup to paint it the way I'd like and even if I do it'll get destroyed In my current shop. So for now I think I'll get it together and polish it up and see how it runs. I still haven't decided if I want to keep it. If the bed was a foot longer I would without question but the short bed is killing me. 


Regards-Carlo


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## pjf134 (May 12, 2015)

Everything was stuck or rusted on mine so I had to do a complete teardown and paint with brush since it was apart. The levers were easy to take apart but finding the pin in the knerled part was hard since it would not move I had to do it. If yours are working just soak and work it to make it easy. Putting the gears back in is trickey and would help to have some extra hands to make it easier. Make sure you try all the speeds on the chart before installing on lathe because some speeds will work with the wrong levers in place left and right. There are 2 gears that look the same but are not. If you have a gap on one shaft and too tight on the other switch end gears. There is no slop on either shafts which make it hard to put together with only 2 hands. Other tricks for other parts I have found, but will hold off for now.
Paul


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## Strtspdlx (May 13, 2015)

I only had issues with the countershaft as It was never lubed and is heavily gouged but until I have the funds for bushings and to machine a new shaft it'll have to work. And the taper pins in the gearbox were a pain. All the other pins worked out real easy just the one for the selector arm shaft and the other for the input shaft didn't want to budge. I got the felts and all now I have to decide if I want to paint it. I really don't want too but it would look so nice. 


Regards-Carlo


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## Strtspdlx (May 14, 2015)

Cleaning and prepping as much as I can for paint. I either want to do black or white. I thought about clear coating bare metal but I'd want to sandblast everything for that and I do not have access to a sand blaster. 

I do have a question. How the heck does the name ate come off the change gear box?


Regards-Carlo


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## pjf134 (May 15, 2015)

The gear box plate should have 4 rivets to hold it on, just drill them out and use screws to attach. Painting now would be best. Just use a brush and later you will have to tear down to paint. Mine was all rusted and stuck and looked great when done.
Paul


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## Strtspdlx (May 15, 2015)

I'll have to find the original style pins I'm assuming they slide into a bore and the heads are peened over. I'd like to keep this original looking aside from the color. I really wish I had a sand blaster. The more I think about it the more I'd like to do bare metal finish and just paint some little parts for some accents. This is why I hate painting. I'm over critical of everything. 


Regards-Carlo


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## pjf134 (May 15, 2015)

I have a sandblaster and did not use it for the lathe just paint stripper, wire brush wheel for drill and electrolis to take it to bare metal with little effort. I do think the pins on the gearbox are push in or hammer in type I believe. Try McMaster-Carr for those pins.
Paul


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## Strtspdlx (May 19, 2015)

Well as of right now everything is going fairly slowly I'm still in process of stripping, cleaning, and checking for damage. I did notice my ways are fairly worn by the headstock but I haven't the first clue how to properly measure them. And a fair amount of other rotating parts are fairly worn. Wish I could find a cheap mill to bore everything so I could install bushings. I did notice a lot of things are already bushed. 
Also the half nuts are pretty well worn to nothing does anyone know where I
Might find new ones?


Regards-Carlo


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## Strtspdlx (May 22, 2015)

Well I managed to sell this machine so it is no longer a project I'd like to thank everyone for the help they've given it is very much appreciated 


Regards-Carlo


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