# Improving dial indicator bezel movement



## Razzle (Jul 29, 2021)

Has anyone had any success in improving the movement of the bezel on cheap indicators? I have a couple of chinesium dial and test indicators. They work ok but I get frustrated that turning the dial to zero messes up the setup. Is there any way to improve the stiction?

I realize that the best option is to buy a quality indicator and that is on the wishlist. But money is not available right now. So I am working with what I have.



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## ErichKeane (Jul 29, 2021)

Razzle said:


> Has anyone had any success in improving the movement of the bezel on cheap indicators? I have a couple of chinesium dial and test indicators. They work ok but I get frustrated that turning the dial to zero messes up the setup. Is there any way to improve the stiction?
> 
> I realize that the best option is to buy a quality indicator and that is on the wishlist. But money is not available right now. So I am working with what I have.
> 
> ...


I'd like to hear that answer too!  I find that 'good' indicators get ruined just as fast in my shop, getting sticky/ covered in oil/etc fast enough that it isn't worth investing in good ones, so i keep a pile of 'throw-aways'.  It would be great if there was a usable solution here!


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## jwmay (Jul 29, 2021)

I pulled two Starretts out of a dumpster. That seemed to work better than anything. But it's tough finding the right dumpster to look in.


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## Razzle (Jul 30, 2021)

I apologize for the stupid question. Can a moderator please delete this thread so it doesn't clutter the feed.
Thank you.

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## francist (Jul 30, 2021)

I for one didn’t think it was a stupid question, I just didn’t have a useful answer.

In addition to several “nice” indicators I also have a handful of cheapies scattered around various machines. And one has a sticky bezel that drives me nuts. I tried a small drop of oil and it seems to have made it worse (aluminum on aluminum, oil no good) but I don’t want to fool with taking it apart for cleaning which I expect is what it really needs. Should just toss it….., but I won’t.


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## frankly2 (Jul 30, 2021)

Try silicone or molydisulfide both seem to work well on mine


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## jwmay (Jul 30, 2021)

NOT a stupid question. Sorry if it seemed anybody thought so. I've been watching to see if anyone had any ideas. Most of my stuff is cheap import, and I've had a peek inside. I didn't come up with anything that would help. But it's a great question. Imagine if somebody figured this out!


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## sdelivery (Jul 30, 2021)

jwmay said:


> NOT a stupid question. Sorry if it seemed anybody thought so. I've been watching to see if anyone had any ideas. Most of my stuff is cheap import, and I've had a peek inside. I didn't come up with anything that would help. But it's a great question. Imagine if somebody figured this out!


I don't think it is a stupid question and I have been in the trade for 30 years.
About 20 years ago I bought two identical Starrett .0005 linear travel indicators for going up and down the cylindrical square.
They were plagued with poor fitting dials, I had them serviced and they were better but not good enough for my work, they have been parked since.
I would like to take apart a couple of these cheap indicators and see how they are assembled, it wouldn't be like I disassembled a Mitutoyo, Starrett or other expensive indicator.


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## Razzle (Jul 30, 2021)

I did take apart the dial on one of my chinesium units and tried to deburr and adjust the tension but it seemed like the brass spring might be too thick. I didn't have the patience to continue with it that day. 
I also have some used starrett last word and federal dial indicators I picked up on fleabag. They all have the same issue and I haven't been brave enough to try disassembling them yet. 
I am not good with small work. Arthritis makes me clunky. So I have avoided trying to address the issues. Was just hoping somebody might have found an improvement that was worth the effort.


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## Razzle (Jul 31, 2021)

Ok, for once i may actually be able to contribute instead of just asking questions. this could be a long one.  i decided to sit down at a comfortable table and actually take a good look at this. i started with my accusize dial test indicator. .0005 at .30 range.  i bought this one on amazon because i had read great reviews about how smooth the action was for the price that you pay. Wanted to check tram on my mill.  i was disappointed.  the bezel was stiff and jerky to move.  action looked smooth so i kept it and chucked it up to a learning experience about trusting reviews on amazon.  This was the unit i had tried to fix before by just deburring but had no success.  
Just so you are prepared, here is what i used tool wise:  Micro screwdriver set (phillips and straight), micro tweezers, Optivisor (a must if you are vision challenged), flashlight, set of small diamond sharpening sticks, rubber soldering pad with part depressions (those screws love to jump), clean rag, graphite lube (like for locks although this one is not necessary as you will see). Watch hand removal tools (these are a must, cheap to buy, buy them).
Disassembly:
   Gently pry off the bezel cover.  Did this with a flat blade under the bezel edge and slowly worked it off.  you will end up with a bezel ring, bezel glass (plastic) and a plastic ring.  dont lose this ring it sets the distance between the face and the glass bezel to give the hand room to move.  (ask me how i know).
Use the watch hands to gently pry off the hand using the removal tools.  be careful, it likes to jump too (just like the pesky screws).
Remove the face, nothing holds it on but the hand and the bezel ring.
You will now be confronted with a brass or steel plate (escutcheon?) that the armature (wrong word) pokes through with anywhere from 2 to 4 screws holding it down. 
Remove the screws carefully and place them in something to keep them corralled (like i said, they like to jump AND they respond to gravity better than most objects and will roll in directions you though were impossible)
Take off the 'escutcheon plate, the ring shaped spring and the bezel back.  Be VERY careful as my indicator had the face spring exposed at this point.  Messing this up is a great way to ruin an indicator.  You should now have 4 component parts that all are involved in this Bezel rotation smoothness problem:
Dial indicator body, note the spring.


Escutcheon plate:


Spring (the real culprit):


Bezel back plate:


The Fix:  
   I started by deburring every one of these pieces using a fine and superfine diamond stick.  All the edges felt like they were just punched out and not cleaned at all.  After i got them where i thought they should be i started putting them together again and moving the action to see how they felt.  Did they still feel rough, was there any binding between the parts, etc.  After a few back and forth's, i decided to put some graphite lube at the mating points (just a tiny bit applied with a toothpick brush.  to make a toothpick brush you get one toothpick, and chew on one end until it resembles a brush.  ;-)  i then assembled the four pieces (NOTE the escutcheon has a tiny hole in the center for the armature, mine was a 'Ruby Jewel' you MUST get this lined up or BAD THINGS HAPPEN), put the screws back in, and then tested the action.  DARN, still hard to move.  Hmmm, what next.  I took it apart again, then left the spring off and put it together.  Hmmmm, definitely needs the spring, too floppy otherwise.  Is the spring too thick?  how the heck do i measure that?  i dont have the right tools for that.  Wait a minute?  that spring looks like a sine wave when you look at it from the side (couldnt get a good pic, sorry).  Wonder if i could just unbend those bends a bit and see if that helps.  
Well i did so, and reassembled the four parts, and wouldnt you know it, that fixed the problem almost totally.  i was so happy i did NOT take it apart again to adjust the spring.  It could use some fine tuning on the bends but i was too happy to care.

So I put the whole thing back together(this is where i discovered the importance of the plastic ring between the face and the bezel glass).  NOTE:  putting the hand back on is an exercise in patience and a steady hand.  neither of which i have in abundance.  Tweezers and optivisor DEFINATELY came in handy here.  Also, a watch press would be handy.  using needle nose to squeeze the bezel back on is sooo hammer and chisel mechanic (thank you MrPete).

i was so impressed that it worked so easily that i decided to try it on my ultra cheapo chineseum dial test indicator (7 jewels ya know, somebody should tell the repeatability about that).  Guess what? Same problem, same solution.  
Then i decided to try it on my Horror Freight Dial Indicator that i have had for 10+ years.  Hmmm, built a little differently, instead of a spring, the escutcheon holds the clock works and has a slit in each side that is bent down to work as a spring.  a little unbend and whalla (sp?) much smoother action.

So i have concluded that these things use a punched spring that is not calibrated.  just punched out and formed in the same operation, and the poor chinese assembler who is paid by the piece doesnt have time to tweak it to work.  My guess is this is why Mitutoyo, Interapid, and high end Starretts cost what they do.  the springs are probably calibrated and adjusted at assembly.  OH, and the fit and finish too.  

I am sure the deburring helped quite a bit. in fact it could use more of that.  but the graphite was probably totally unnecessary.  You could definitely spend alot of time adjusting the spring for just the right feel.  and i may go back and do that.  But i spent about an hour on the first one with all the troubleshooting.  The second one took me 15 minutes, with some deburring.  The last one was 10 with NO deburring.  

YMMV, but this is definitely worth some time if you have these type indicators and would like to actually use them.  

I would love to hear if this works for anyone else


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## francist (Jul 31, 2021)

That’s awesome, good on ya!

I only got as far as squirting a little Tri-Flo lubricant under the bezel on the offending indicator. The overall smoothness did improve quite a bit but there’s still a couple tight spots — I’m kind of thinking something is a little egg-shaped and that’s what’s hanging up. I’m not going to chase it anymore just now though.

Excellent blow by blow description of your fix though, that’ll be a handy thing for someone down the line 

-frank


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## brino (Jul 31, 2021)

Great post @Razzle !

Thanks for 1) diving into to this to figure it out, and 2) sharing your success with great description and photos.

Someday when I'm feeling extraordinarily calm and haven't had too much coffee, I should give this all a go too.

Thanks!
-brino


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## Boswell (Jul 31, 2021)

Very interesting discussion and directions. However I must not be using my indicators right because, I rarely turn the bezels. when I sweep a flat surface, like the fixed jaw of my vice on the mill, I am just looking for the movement. The actual numbers don't have any real meaning and so I don't feel the need to "zero" the indicator by turning the bezel.  Am I missing something here? (btw, probably is most likely the answer )


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## francist (Jul 31, 2021)

I can’t speak for anyone else, but in my case I was referring to drop style dial indicators which I often use as Trav-a-Dials on my smaller machines. Zeroing the dial saves me keeping track of a bunch of numbers.

-frank


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## brino (Aug 1, 2021)

Boswell said:


> Am I missing something here?



It depends on the job.
If I am just sweeping a vise jaw, or centering in the four jaw then the zero doesn't matter; it's total indicator reading I'm using.

When I use a dial indicator on the lathe carriage to part-off to length, or space off distance between two shoulders then I want to set the zero to help me make less mistakes.

-brino


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## frankly2 (Aug 1, 2021)

I agree Brino, I just touch off and adjust until needle stops moving. Period, end of necessity !


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## Boswell (Aug 1, 2021)

Got it, thanks. as I have a DRO on my lathe, I have not had the need to use an indicator on the carriage travel.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Aug 5, 2021)

Good Lord! I love this question. I went from my original super cheap DTI to some less cheap indicator....it's horrible! (Turlen-TURDlen) For something with such a limited range (.030") you'd think they'd understand tight bezels don't jive.  I love your solution, but at that point, I feel like I should just purchase a better one out the gate. ($100 saddle/$50 horse?)I feel like I'm getting sucked into the vortex of spending all my shop time make tools, or making my tools better. Both noble, but I want to make things outside this scope (bird house, cutting board ; ) ?


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## sycle1 (Aug 12, 2021)

I watch an engineering channel on you tube and this guy Finno, he disassembled 3 Dial test indicators.
He is a funny guy.
I enjoyed his video and it made me realize I won't be pulling any of mine apart.




Enjoy Finno Ugric Engineering from Finland he has some good projects and videos. cheers


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