# Monarch 10EE - what to do?



## Phayb (May 16, 2018)

Hello out there.  I have a question for those knowledgeable in the ways of the 10EE lathes.  I came across an old round dial 10EE - my guess is around 1942-ish.  The only tag I found (about 1/2" x 2") is stamped 4512 and the round dial has a 'T' shaped handle.  By looking at photos, it looks to be from that era.  The machine is a cosmetic disaster but the ways look to be in really good shape under the grime and surface rust after a quick rub and check with my finger nail.  It's been sitting in a barn for a couple of years.  The original drive is long gone.  The motor driving it is a DC unit with a large quick disconnect you would see on forklift batteries.  The headstock side end covers, top and bottom, are missing (the previous owner set them aside to get access for the cobbled up drive set-up and they are now lost somewhere).  There is no low range gearbox either.  It comes with a bunch of chucks and faceplates.  I'm on the fence as to what to do (I wouldn't be scared to tackle the restoration).  My original plan is to get one replacement lathe for my 2 Southbends (a 9A with collets and taper attachment and a Heavy 10) for two reasons - floor space and working height.  I'm 6'-1" with long-ish legs and the Southbend lathes are about 6" too low for me to work on comfortably (at least now they are).  My only concern with the 10EE is the covers and gearbox...not sure I can find replacements.  I can make an adapter for a gearbox and I thought I could make aluminum covers if it came to it.  I use my lathes infrequently for little projects in my shop - mostly car related projects.

Thoughts?  Comments?

Fabio


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## pacifica (May 16, 2018)

I would measure wear on the  ways like this: 




Super lathe  but complex, hope youre really good with electrics(10ee stands for electrical engineer)


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## extropic (May 16, 2018)

If you want a working lathe, put 6x6 risers under your SBs and move on.

What's the seller asking for the 10EE?

If you want a new major project get the 10EE. The Monarch has a well respected reputation and can be a really nice small lathe. Eventually you may be able to buy or build whatever you want to construct your own Frankenlathe. Maybe, if the price is right, buy it, clean it up and part it out. Put the profit toward a more attractive project?


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## Karl_T (May 16, 2018)

The 10EE is one of the finest lathes ever built. A wore out is better than 90% of the lathes out there.

new covers will cost ya. I'd run without them or fab some up out of sheet metal.

The drive would be dead on that old lathe anyway, so you have not lost much.

Not having the backgear means you will have to have a bigger spindle motor to get torque at low speed. My suggestion, find a used 10 hp three phase motor and get a 10 or 15 hp VFD from one of the great online vendors of these. My favorite happens to automation direct. But that is only because they have treated me so good over the years. many other vendors.  This is a quick and easy job. be glad to help if you have not done this sort of thing before.

You could stop here, or you can go clear through it for a complete rebuild. just doing the above will likely make it run for years.


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## Cal Haines (May 16, 2018)

The chances of finding the missing covers or the back-gear unit are close to zero.

If you look at the right end of the ways, in front of the tailstock (between the tailstock and front Vee way) you'll find the serial number stamped. The T-handle means that it's an older round-dial 10EE; probably built before mid-1942. I would need to see a photo of the tailstock end of the base to see if it originally had an inline motor/generator (MG) or the newer, piggyback model.

Don't let anyone tell you that the "old" 10EE MG drives aren't extremely good drives. If you spend a lot of time on a VFD conversion, you might end up with a drive that's about as good as the original DC motor drive. The fact that so many original MG drives are still service after two thirds of a century of use speaks to how robust they are. Ten years from now, the odds are that at least one of the chips needed to repair a given VFD drive will not longer be available, but you'll still be able to repair every part of an MG drive--in your own shop if you're clever enough. Most of the MG drives that get torn out probably just needed brushes or had a loose wire or a bad component that was easily repaired/replaced.

I know of two MGs that are available for the asking, if you want to go that route. Assuming that the existing DC motor is already in place and belted up to the spindle, an electronic DC motor controller is an option. KB Electronics makes a drive that sells for about $165 that will run the motor. It doesn't do field-weakening, so you can't get full speed out of the motor, but if you still have the large rheostats from the MG drive, there's a way around that.

We need to see some pictures of the DC motor and anything else in the compartment under the headstock.


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## pacifica (May 16, 2018)

You can buy several VFD's for the price of the Thyratron C16J  vacuum tube, believe a 10ee needs 2.


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## mksj (May 16, 2018)

If you use your lathes infrequently, than you may be better off with a new lathe or a used one in better condition. Parts for the 10EE usually command a high price, and the chance of getting a ggear box are next to nil at a reasonable price (let alone getting it shipped to Canada). Without  the gearbox you could drop in a 10Hp motor, but you would need a 20Hp VFD if running off of single phase.  This is because the diode bridge is meant to carry current through all three legs. Thus, the rule of thumb for sizing the single phase input on a three-phase drive is to use a VFD rated for 2 times the FLA of the motor. For example if your 3 phase motor is a 10 HP with a FLA of 28 amps, then you would need to select a VFD with an output amp rating of 56 amps which ends up being around 20 HP, possible get by with 15 Hp.  You probably would need a 100A service to run the VFD on single phase. If you have a 15 Hp or larger RPC you could run a 10Hp VFD off of the RPC. A lot of power and cost for a lack of gearbox fix. With a gearbox you would do fine with a 5Hp motor and there are single phase 5Hp input VFDs, but a decent one will still run you around $600 and the other costs you will probably be into it for 1K US for the electrics/switches.

If all the pieces were there and you knew everything worked, then worth the trouble, otherwise would pass.


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## Chuck K (May 16, 2018)

If you buy it right and decide it's not something you want to invest the time in, you can easily recoup your money just selling a few of the parts.


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## Ray C (May 16, 2018)

If you're a automotive enthusiast and just want to make basic parts, I think a 10EE that needs a lot of work, will put an end to you working on cars for the next year, possibly two.

Ray


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## pacifica (May 16, 2018)

I looked at several 10ee's, both seemed very nice, $12k. Looked at several colchesters. Had a harrison boxster.but I wanted to spend my time making things not fixing a lathe, and always there is wear on the ways of a lathe 50 plus years old.
Ended buying a PM 1340 GT which is precise,a good size  and installing an hitachi vfd. Good support here for that combination.
Pick your poison.


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## Cal Haines (May 16, 2018)

pacifica said:


> You can buy several VFD's for the price of the Thyratron C16J  vacuum tube, believe a 10ee needs 2.


No. Not all 10EEs had vacuum tube drives. And I assure that none of the T-handle round-dial 10EEs (like the one Phayb is looking at) did. And, as I said, the DC spindle motor can be powered by a DC motor controller for about the cost of a VFD, with no need buy and adapt an AC motor.


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## Silverbullet (May 17, 2018)

Look at the quality of the machine , not one of these new pm or grizzly lathes will ever last as long as the 10ee . I'm a USA man if entirely possible. I'd be extremely happy to get one even needing repair. Sounds like the price must be fair so grab it , you won't be unhappy . The dc drive sounds like it's almost ready to run . If it's less then $2k your in they sell for much more when junk.  Pictures will help more.


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## Karl_T (May 17, 2018)

mksj said:


> Without  the gearbox you could drop in a 10Hp motor, but you would need a 20Hp VFD if running off of single phase...



That is being WAY too conservative and wasting his money.  A 10EE would never even use 5 hp, just need low end torque of a 10hp motor. It would be prudent to get a 15hp VFD, but a 10hp will work on single phase.  This is a guideline sort of thing that always draws controversy. Now if you need full hp out of a three phase motor with 100% duty cycle, then you should double the size of the VFD.

Karl


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## mksj (May 17, 2018)

Karl_T said:


> That is being WAY too conservative and wasting his money. A 10EE would never even use 5 hp, just need low end torque of a 10hp motor


I guess you did not read what I said, which is you would need a 10Hp without the gearbox. With the gearbox, there are numerous conversions using a 5Hp VFD that work just fine. Your choice on how you want to burn up your VFD and void the warranty, I have had this discussion in other forums and manufactures, and the minimum up sizing running a 3 phase VFD off of single phase is 1.5X. The quality of the VFD does come into play, but hey why not just get one of the single phase 10Hp VFDs with a 2 year warranty and go for it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10HP-7-5KW...ase-Single-Speed-Inverter-220VAC/202035769448
10EE 5:1 gearbox
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MONARCH-10-EE-LATHE-MOTOR-W-GEAR-BOX-/292151115571

A great machine does not make a great machinist, a competent machinist can use a less expensive machine and still do great work for what they need it for. This is not aerospace production. I doubt any of us would wear out the hardened bed on a new lathe under normal "hobbyist" use. So it comes down to do you want the lathe as a project, or do you want a lathe to use.


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## pacifica (May 17, 2018)

And issues of footprint,spindle nose,5c collets or hard to find collets,weight of machine for transport,spindle bore,money for qctp,holders,knurlers,etc.


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## Cadillac STS (May 17, 2018)

I vote for not going with the 10EE if you don’t have it already, sell all your Southbend lathe stuff and buy a new Precision Matthews lathe. It will likely cost less than the 10EE (plus all the things to get it running) and will be new out of the crate ready to go.

If you have the 10EE already sell it for profit and apply the money to the new lathe cause


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## Chuck K (May 17, 2018)

and will be new out of the crate ready to go.

.....maybe


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## Phayb (May 18, 2018)

Well...people of the forum...I thank all of you for your comments and opinions...very much appreciated!  I decided to buy it and see what happens.  It's at home in my shop.  The transport from the seller was effortless as well as the unloading into my shop.  And for the money, I think it'll be an interesting project to dig into.  I already like the height and overall size of the machine - it makes the Southbend lathes I have look like toys!  Once I find the serial number, I will post it here for those that are interested.  As I mentioned previously, it does not have the large tag like I see on other lathes - not sure why that is - likely the mystery of the adventure in and of itself!  More to come...stay tuned!


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## mksj (May 18, 2018)

If you do decide to use a back gear you might look at the eBay listing I posted as an option. I would probably toss the motor but keep the back spider that attaches to the back of the gearbox. You could mount a plate to is and use a C face or flange motor to mount to it and adapt a coupling between the two or fabricate something new. Others have modified other housings.  You might look at the post below where he used the gearbox and a 5Hp motor with good results. I like the Yaskawa VFDs, I use them in some of my higher end builds, but they can be pricey. There is a vendor out of UK that ships internationally and is much more less expensive than buying in the US. I do have some parameter files for these VFDs.
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/10ee-vfd-conversion.64230/


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## wrmiller (May 18, 2018)

Have fun!


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## Cal Haines (May 18, 2018)

mksj said:


> If you do decide to use a back gear you might look at the eBay listing I posted as an option. I would probably toss the motor but keep the back spider that attaches to the back of the gearbox. You could mount a plate to is and use a C face or flange motor to mount to it and adapt a coupling between the two or fabricate something new. ...


Have you actually done this? Have you ever had the chance to operate a 10EE with a DC drive?


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## mksj (May 18, 2018)

I have worked on DC drives and they can work very well, I have not directly worked on the 10EE drive. If you read the eBay posting the DC motor attached to the gearbox is in unknown condition, and getting it to work as originally designed would be challenging. I am sure there are some work arounds for alternate SS drives, but the few I checked into a while back had numerous problems. If you have the expertise, please guide the new owner on the installation you recommend. My other concern was the shipping of the gearbox with the motor to Canada would be prohibitive. I have worked with a few other people in another forum who did various conversions with their 10EE, most ended up installing VFD drives at the end of the day. If you purchased a new Monarch EE it is also how they come from the factory these days.


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## pacifica (May 19, 2018)

Also the Hardinge factory offer a a.c. inverter to replace their dc drive.hmm


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## pacifica (May 19, 2018)

All original ,no modifications and preserving the 10ee art deco look is a different subject completely


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## Doubleeboy (May 19, 2018)

Congrats on the new lathe.  If you don't know already, a wealth of info on Monarch 10ee is waiting for you at Practical Machinist in the Monarch forum.  Hundreds of posts about restoring, repairing, or replacing drives.  As your lathe is a MG lathe initially you may find if you are patient that you can find complete drive units available for not much cost other than shipping.  Monarch does not support the MG machines anymore, but they have the build print and schematic for your particular machine that may be worth purchasing.  Lots of folks love their MG machines, Raytheon Industries in particular still had a row of MG machines in their shop not many years ago.  Their service wizard liked em, so that is what they had.  the Wards/Leonard drive that was in MG machines was a drive system that many repair people understood as it was used extensively in elevators.  Having used a original DC drive EE for over a dozen years and having turned on a couple of retrofit machines, not knocking anyones retrofit, but I would not hesitate to fix my original drive instead of junking it.  Only when I had come to the end of my patience would a ditch the original drive and go AC.  There is a reason that Monarch stuck with DC drive as long as they did.  Not to rag on but my machine which is over 60 years old runs on 40 year old tubes that are weak, and this machine still makes a mockery of any lathe you can buy from Taiwan except maybe a HLVH clone.


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## Cal Haines (May 19, 2018)

Doubleeboy said:


> ...   Monarch does not support the MG machines anymore, but they have the build print and schematic for your particular machine that may be worth purchasing. ...


Monarch still sells brushes for MG machines, but that's about it. They don't do a very good job of providing documentation for round-dial 10EEs. For about $75, they will sell you a poor photocopy of the manual and a copy of the most common version of the wiring diagram, which may or may not be the one for your machine. (There are at least eight different MG wiring diagrams, so it's very much a krap shoot.) The one unique thing that you do get is the build sheet for your machine, which shows how it was originally configured and who it sold to.

For square-dial machines, Monarch sends you a generic set of assembly drawings, but the assembly drawing for the round-dials have apparently been misplaced (for the most part). Round-dial documentation is considered "OBSOLETE-DISCARDED" and they no longer attempt to maintain it.

Metal Illness has a much better version of the manual here: MetalIllness - Monach 10EE manuals (The link isn't working right now, hopefully it will be back up.)

I visited Monarch about three years ago and talked with the president about this and he wasn't interested in trying to improve the quality of the documentation they sell, even though I offered free help.


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## Silverbullet (May 19, 2018)

I think your going to love the machine , congratulations on getting the best made lathe ever. In my opinion anyway...


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## Phayb (May 21, 2018)

The stamped lettering on the bed are "INSPECTED NHE Lot No. 12653".  Looks like it's a 1941 model.  There are faint hole marks where the original ID tag was.  Who knows what happened to the tag...or the end covers...or the original drive system.  The guy that I bought the lathe from said it belonged to an old farmer that restored Cockshutt tractors.  When he got too old to mess around with the stuff, he sold off what he had.  I'm looking forward to bringing it back to life.

The gearbox/motor that is on ebay...is that a reasonable price?  It's about a 6 hour drive each way for me to go and get it.  I think I should do some more research and figure out my plan of attack.  I like the idea of the reduction gearbox for a low speed range.  In the end, it'll be a home shop machine...but I like to do things correctly and not cut corners.  I'm the type that likes to see all of the buttons and levers on the machine do what they were orignally intended to do.  In case anyone is wondering, gray will be the colour.


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## Doubleeboy (May 21, 2018)

Before you go buying motor or generator I would spend some time reading every applicable post about MG machines on Practical Machinist Monarch board.  Maybe introduce yourself there and explain your situation and goals.  There are only a handful of EE enthusiasts (users) here.  Over there resides many more with at least 15 years plus of posts about these lathes.  There are some chaps there who have many schematics which could be sent to you possibly.  Numerous guys there have restored or rebuilt multiple machines.  Besides Cal, there is also off the top of my head rkepler or something similar who I know has redone at least one MG maybe more.  Not taking anything away from HM but most of the black belts of 10EE can be found at PM board.


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## Karl_T (May 21, 2018)

I assume you mean this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MONARCH-10...115571?hash=item4405903f33:g:aqkAAOSwbopZQZU7

you will likely not find it cheaper.

What is your time worth and cost to get it? For me, I'd have to add another $1000, you may see it different.


A 10 hp 3phase motor and 15 hp VFD will make a fine drive for this lathe.  I did the 5hp 3phase motor and VFD with a backgear on mine.  it may be slightly better, certainly has a bit more low end torque. Doing the mechanical work to fit the backgear to another motor is not a small job. there is a GREAT recent thread here on how to do it.

I would also add the cost of additional build time and parts cost for a backgear. Myself I'd add another $1000 for build time and part cost.


Now a 15hp VFD and 10 hp 3 phase motor will cost more. My GUESS is its real close to the $2.5K I estimated above. You might do quite a bit better with careful shopping.


Either option is a good way to go, not a bad decision here. make your pick and get on with it.


Just my two cents.


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## Cal Haines (May 21, 2018)

Phayb said:


> The stamped lettering on the bed are "INSPECTED NHE Lot No. 12653".  Looks like it's a 1941 model.  ...


Yes, that's your serial number. It's probably very late 1941 or early to mid 1942. Monarch assigned serial numbers when the machine was ordered. Sometimes orders would get placed on hold, for various reasons, so two machines that were build sequentially might have a big difference in serial number. The only way to know when it was actually built (given that the build tag is missing) is to contact Monarch. If you're nice to Terrie, she might tell you without having to spend money buying the documentation package.

Why don't you first see what you've got, how well it works and how it suits your needs. Unless you're actually looking for a machine tool reconditioning project, don't rush into "upgrading" it. Post some photos of your spindle motor and drive controls so that I can see what you have to work with.


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## DAT510 (May 24, 2018)

This just popped up on CL. 

*Monarch 10ee Lathe parts (Pittsburg / Antioch, CA)*

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/tls/d/monarch-10ee-lathe-parts/6597747824.html


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## Phayb (May 24, 2018)

Cal Haines said:


> Yes, that's your serial number. It's probably very late 1941 or early to mid 1942. Monarch assigned serial numbers when the machine was ordered. Sometimes orders would get placed on hold, for various reasons, so two machines that were build sequentially might have a big difference in serial number. The only way to know when it was actually built (given that the build tag is missing) is to contact Monarch. If you're nice to Terrie, she might tell you without having to spend money buying the documentation package.
> 
> Why don't you first see what you've got, how well it works and how it suits your needs. Unless you're actually looking for a machine tool reconditioning project, don't rush into "upgrading" it. Post some photos of your spindle motor and drive controls so that I can see what you have to work with.


Cal...the entire drive system was discarded at some point at least two owners previous.  I'm basically starting from ground zero on the electrical drive end of things...which is fine.  I am leaning more towards the 7.5 hp motor and drive system as I think it'll end up being the most time and cost effective approach.  The old MG drive is what was originally inside the lathe and it intrigues me (from the technical side of things)...but as I said, all of it is gutted out.  The only thing left are the old conduits with wires still inside, the main switch box, the drum switch and contractors behind the headstock.


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## Phayb (May 24, 2018)

and another picture


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## Phayb (May 24, 2018)

By the way...what's the diameter of the spindle pulley supposed to be?  What's on the machine is 7.3" which I think is too large.


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## Karl_T (May 24, 2018)

There are all different pulley set ups on the WWII era machines. Must have been partly due to war time shortages.

my early 1941 machine has  six inch toothed flat belts on both the motor and the spindle. But this is not common.


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## Cal Haines (May 24, 2018)

Phayb,

You have a motor that's belted up to the spindle. Assuming that there's a way to power the motor, why not use it for a while and see how it works for you? If you do a lot of threading or don't need high spindle RPMs, a DC motor is going to be much better than an AC motor without the backgear unit. I don't know very many people running VFDs without backgear units that are happy with them.

I need to see some better photos of the motor and it's control box (if any). Take a photo of the data plate on the motor. BTW, that's not the original motor.

The pulley on the spindle isn't oversized. It looks about right for a machine with a 2500 RPM tach an may be original to the machine. 10EEs were available with 2500, 3500 or 4000 RPM spindles. The V-belt drives used two, matched V-belts, apparently a single belt wasn't sufficient.


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## Cal Haines (May 24, 2018)

Karl_T said:


> ...
> my early 1941 machine has  six inch toothed flat belts on both the motor and the spindle. ...


"six inch"? What? Really?


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## Phayb (May 24, 2018)

Cal Haines said:


> Phayb,
> 
> You have a motor that's belted up to the spindle. Assuming that there's a way to power the motor, why not use it for a while and see how it works for you? If you do a lot of threading or don't need high spindle RPMs, a DC motor is going to be much better than an AC motor without the backgear unit. I don't know very many people running VFDs without backgear units that are happy with them.
> 
> ...



Cal...thanks for your insight thus far...most helpful.  Below is a photo of the 'franken-motor' that has been installed.  It doesn't look like any of the motors I have seen for these lathes.  You can see the battery disconnect.  In addition, I took a photo of the tachometer showing this baby is a 4000 RPM spindle.  I don't want to run the lathe 'as is'...it's not what I want to do.  It's coming apart right down to the wood and being re-assembled as nicely as I can.

If it is more cost effective to buy the gearbox and DC motor from the ebay seller (or another) and then buy a DC drive set-up, then I'll consider it.  People have been writing on the forums about 7.5 hp AC motors and VFDs without the gearbox...but I just went onto the Monarch site and they use 7.5 hp motors WITH 5:1 gearboxes.  So I'm a bit confused...

I've never used a Monarach.  I've used the small Southbends and the lathes at work (Western, Colchester and Microweily).  So I'm still wondering what the best option will be.  For sure I know that input power is 220V single phase on a 60A circuit...so whatever I choose will need to work off of that.


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## Phayb (May 24, 2018)

DAT510 said:


> This just popped up on CL.
> 
> *Monarch 10ee Lathe parts (Pittsburg / Antioch, CA)*
> 
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/tls/d/monarch-10ee-lathe-parts/6597747824.html



I just checked with Google maps...the stuff is WAY over on the left coast.  Too far from me!  Thanks for the 'heads up' anyway.


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## Cadillac STS (May 25, 2018)

Still could be valuable to make contact.  Says best offer so offer a lower amount considering shipping.  Also contact is worth it because of networking.  Maybe this guy knows people closer with same machines or someone else with parts can ask about that when you contact him.


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## Cal Haines (May 25, 2018)

Definitely not the original motor. Maybe it came out of a forklift or something like that? Without being able to see the data plate on the motor, it's impossible to tell what your options are for an electronic DC drive. As mentioned before, DC controllers for a 3HP-ish DC motor start at around $160; you'll spend way more than that on an AC motor and VFD.

Given what you've got, a VFD may be your only option. If you go that way, get the biggest motor that will physically fit without carving up the base. Used 3-phase motors go for $10 per HP down here. Ideally you want an "inverter duty" motor, which has insulation that can take the switching transients that a VFD puts out. If you get a non-inverter duty motor, you should install an AC line reactor between the VFD and the motor. I would keep the stepped pulley setup and see how it works for you, since it will give you two speed ranges to choose from. In general, a 10HP-ish VFD that runs from single-phase power is fairly pricey. A 10HP, 3-phase-input VFD from factorymation is about $550; I don't know if they even carry single-phase VFDs that big. Some 3-phase VFDs will run from single-phase, but it's not ideal. The are some Chinese VFDs on eBay, starting at about $220, if you're feeling lucky.

220V, 60A is plenty of power.


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## pacifica (May 25, 2018)

When you go above 3hp( motors and vfd's) price goes up fast, extra cost to ship .Instead of $1k for a package you are talking 2 to 3 times more.

Sensorless vector vfd  will give you torque that you need at low speeds. Also costs more. No magic bullet on this issue.


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## Phayb (Jun 9, 2018)

I finally strung a few hours together to start dismantling the machine.  I've located a gearbox so the electric motor choice becomes easier for me (I'll follow the same basic path as fellow forum member Deek).  Now it's just a matter of systematically going through each sub-system one at a time.  I'll start from the base and bed and work my way up from there.  I have a plan on how to re-create the missing covers (fiberglass) so that should be pretty straighrtforward to do...unless some originals happen to cross my path.  Let the games begin!  Woo hoo!


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## Richard King 2 (Jun 10, 2018)

I see your in Canada ...a friend of mine Shane Carr in Port Coquitlam BC who has rebuilt several.  He has 2 way grinders and can scrape. (a student of mine)You can also email him for help if you need it.
http://www.carrsmachining.com/about.php

I will be teaching a class in Ohio in August where I can show you ...   also possibly one in middle of July in Oklahoma.   Shane attended the class at Bourn & Koch in Rockford IL. in 2016.   Pictures of Shane in Checkered shirt.


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## Dabbler (Jun 10, 2018)

Phab, first congrats on your purchase!  

--regarding lathes being too low, most are way too low even for us 5' 10" people. Most of my machinist friends have made risers out of steel tubing/plate to bring the late to a height where 'stooping' is unnecessary.  Because of my back, I can't use the machine very long if I have to bend over it.

I'm looking forward to seeing some pictures of this restoration project!!


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## Silverbullet (Jun 11, 2018)

Dc motor power is extremely powerfull , with the right controls I doubt you would ever need an a.c. three phase motor. There easily reversed and a potentiometer that was in the lathe probably would work your speed changes . Plus the pulley change there already is adding more speed or torque. Just my observations , many large machines run dc powered motors , our giant radial drill press used I think 24 volt system. There are pluses to using dc power over a.c.. And I love the 10EE there just perfect machines.


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## Phayb (Jun 23, 2018)

The base and bed are now stripped of the old green paint.  I used a sharp paint scraper and a razor blade scraper.  It seemed to work pretty good - and I didn't have to bother with chemicals (which is a good thing).  Now it's ready for some smoothing out on the 'outside' areas that are visible before applying paint.  Once the base is done, I'll tackle the sub-assemblies one by one.  First will be the headstock followed by the gearbox, motor and VFD.  I'll get all of that hooked up and running.  Then I can make the new end covers...

Compared to my Southbend lathes, this thing is massive and HEAVY!  The shop crane is really handy!


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## Phayb (Nov 26, 2018)

Posting again...the base is painted.  Making some progress again.


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## Phayb (Nov 26, 2018)

The headstock will be going back together soon.


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## Phayb (Nov 26, 2018)

I'm going to be fabricating end covers for the machine.  Besides the covers being missing, the tag for the backgear lever is also missing.  Can someone out there be kind enough to scan or photocopy one 1:1 scale for me?  I can then have it replicated via 3D printing and paint it so it looks original.  Here is a picture of what I'm looking to replicate


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## Phayb (Nov 26, 2018)

Oh...and one other item.  Does anyone out there have a 2 V-belt spindle pulley that they are willing to part with?  I know they come in different sizes.  My machine is supposed to be a 4000 RPM machine.


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## Cal Haines (Nov 28, 2018)

Do you have a good photo looking into the top of your apron? I curious to see if both of the feed clutch oil lines are in place.


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## Dabbler (Nov 28, 2018)

Phayb, you will have to calculate the diameter of the pulley based on the existing pulley - then you can ask if someone has one near the same size, or you can order one, they aren't expensive - just tedious to find... What part of Canada are you at?  anywhere near Alberta?


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## mksj (Nov 28, 2018)

You might look at these on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MONARCH-10...ELT-SPINDLE-PULLEY-FREE-SHIPPING/163286430215
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MONARCH-10...N-GOOD-SHAPE-EE3437-HARD-TO-FIND/163274963689

They may have other parts needed so may be worth contacting. A number of other parts are listed.


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## Phayb (Nov 28, 2018)

Dabbler said:


> Phayb, you will have to calculate the diameter of the pulley based on the existing pulley - then you can ask if someone has one near the same size, or you can order one, they aren't expensive - just tedious to find... What part of Canada are you at?  anywhere near Alberta?



Nope.  Just north of Toronto, Ontario


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## Phayb (Jan 5, 2019)

Cal Haines said:


> Do you have a good photo looking into the top of your apron? I curious to see if both of the feed clutch oil lines are in place.


How's this one?


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## Phayb (Jan 5, 2019)

Some progress.  Headstock is back together an on the bed once again.

I had to refurbish the feed gears by grinding the hubs down a bit to clean them up and fitting bronze bushings into the holders.  That seemed to work out pretty good.  One of the other fellas on this forum, vettebob, did a similar repair.

I also refurbished the dial face on the tachometer by printing a new one.  I chose the closest font I had available on my CAD program when I drew it up and it turned out ok once it was printed out.  I checked the tachometer calibration and it seems to be working pretty good.  We'll see how accurate it is when I finally get the machine under power.

Next job is a clean up and refurb of the gearbox.  All of the internals look to be ok so I'm not sure I need to tear into it too far...just a really good solvent wash out.


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## Phayb (Jan 5, 2019)

Phayb said:


> Oh...and one other item.  Does anyone out there have a 2 V-belt spindle pulley that they are willing to part with?  I know they come in different sizes.  My machine is supposed to be a 4000 RPM machine.



Found one.


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## Cal Haines (Jan 6, 2019)

Phayb said:


> How's this one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! That's the first one that I've seen that has both of the oil lines that feed the clutches in place.


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## ACHiPo (Dec 17, 2019)

Phayb,
Really enjoy your thread.  Any update?


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## Phayb (Feb 2, 2020)

Finally an update!  The rest of 2019 was a busy time for me and nothing got done on my lathe project.  Today I finally got to install the motor/gearbox assembly into the machine as well as the braking resistor bank.

In the build-up to this point, I had acquired a used gearbox and pulley.  The sliding gear of the gearbox had to be adapted to work with the motor I bought.  I sleeved it with a diameter 1.5" x 1/4" 4130 tube - welded and bored to fit with a keyway.  I designed and made an adapter plate.  After some fiddling to get things to line up properly, I think it turned out pretty good.


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## Phayb (Feb 2, 2020)

I made a base plate that closely resembles the original - although I went by the pictures in the old manual and my particular motor set-up.  The pulley I acquired needed to have the V-grooves widened.  I had to fix the key onto the motor shaft - I elected to fasten it with a disc that is bolted into the end of the shaft.  Everything seems to fit well and shift into and out of direct drive.  We'll see how it goes once I power up the motor.


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## Phayb (Feb 2, 2020)

I made a base plate that closely resembles the original - although I went by the pictures in the old manual and my particular motor set-up.  The pulley I acquired needed to have the V-grooves widened.  I had to fix the key onto the motor shaft - I elected to fasten it with a disc that is bolted into the end of the shaft.  Everything seems to fit well and shift into and out of direct drive.  We'll see how it goes once I


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## Phayb (Jan 1, 2021)




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## Phayb (Jan 1, 2021)

It's been a while...and a crazy year!  As we all know, 2020 is one for the record books.  Hoping everyone out there is doing ok.  Fingers crossed that 2021 will be a good one.

I got the machine running in the late spring.  I mounted the VFD on a dedicated frame that I fabricated from laser cut 3mm steel.  I also fabricated a rheostat mount with a 3:1 reduction for speed control.  I also needed a mounting arrangement for a set of idlers (I found that Toyota V6 timing belt idlers are a good fit) as I needed to control the belt whip on both sides - some rumaging through the scrap pile at work turned up some heavy plate material that worked out to be a good base to start with.  I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.  It runs, stops, goes forward and reverse...all appears to be good.  I can fiddle with things and fine tune later.  Video link:  




I'm finishing up the cross slide and compound.  Next in line is the apron and then the tailstock.  With any luck, the chips will be flying soon after.

I have not been able to locate a used top end cover so I decided to fabricate one out of 3003 aluminum sheet.  I'll make up a hammer form and pound one out.  I've already got the flat pattern worked out so it should work out.  I'll post pictures of things when I'm working my way through it.


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## Phayb (May 12, 2021)

So...to wrap things up, here's where things ended up.  I needed to buy some parts from Monarch for the rebuild of the apron.  While doing that, I found out that I could buy a new, raw, unfinished casting for the upper cover.  It doesn't fit the older machines but I decided to take a chance and give it a go - cut and weld a cover that would fit and make anything that was missing (pins, lock mechanism, trim).  It was quite a bit of work, but I did it and I'm pretty pleased with the results.  It's not "showroom quality" but it suits me just fine.

Oh...and yes, I've been making chips at last!


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## Janderso (May 12, 2021)

You did an amazing job on the lathe!
A lot of work! That's an understatement.


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## Karl_T (May 12, 2021)

I just re checked, been a three year project for you. GREAT JOB, bet you are glad to call it done.


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## rabler (May 12, 2021)

Nicely done.  I know mine won't come out that clean, I just don't have the inclination for detailed painting.  The shop-made headstock top is truly impressive!


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## Dabbler (May 12, 2021)

You've done a very impressibe job there - I always wondered what an AC retrofit would look like for a 10EE... and now I know!  I hope you find using it a joy.


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## Papa Charlie (May 12, 2021)

Great job, love the art deco look.


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## mattthemuppet2 (May 13, 2021)

wow, what a journey! Great story and beautiful looking lathe. So, how is it compared with your South Bends? Are you going to keep either of the SBs for longer work?

It's funny to see both sides of the original arguments play out - you got a beautiful (literally, a work of art) lathe for hopefully not crazy money and one that is probably leaps and bounds in fit, finish and use over an equivalent size import, but it did take you 3 years to get there


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## Phayb (May 13, 2021)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> wow, what a journey! Great story and beautiful looking lathe. So, how is it compared with your South Bends? Are you going to keep either of the SBs for longer work?
> 
> It's funny to see both sides of the original arguments play out - you got a beautiful (literally, a work of art) lathe for hopefully not crazy money and one that is probably leaps and bounds in fit, finish and use over an equivalent size import, but it did take you 3 years to get there


Thanks!

So far, the Monarch is light years ahead of the Southbound 9A (I sold the other one - a Heavy 10).  The comparison, to be fair, is Apples vs. Oranges.  The plan is to sell the 9A, even though it's pretty well equipped, as I'd like to reclaim some floor space for a bench...and some money.

As for the previous "arguments" - sure...everyone is entitled to their own opinion...and along the way, I listened and learned.  In the end, I did it for fun and as a hobby for my own personal satisfaction - and utilimately, for my use.  It took 3 years on the calendar but not 3 years of work.


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## Phayb (May 13, 2021)

For general interest:

Originally sold to Universal Engineering Co. of Frankenmuth MI - promised 3-10-41.  It originally came with a stready rest, follow rest, taper attachment and carriage micrometer stop.  I have none of these accessory items, unfortunately.  I have no idea how many times it changed hands over the years.  Hopefully it will serve me well.


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## extropic (May 13, 2021)

@Phayb 

I contributed reply #3 but didn't really follow the thread. I'm very pleased to read that you have conquered the challenge and now have a great machine tool.

Congratulations.


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