# cnc shaper



## greenail (Jan 3, 2019)

I've been thinking of something a bit useless but perhaps a fun project.... A cnc controlled shaper!  I am sure some purists may have just vomited on their keyboards.  A few things that could be done that may be interesting:

1. cnc control of the tool angle
2. cutting both directions
3. servo to ensure tool lift for carbide insert tooling.
4. g-code extensions 
5. an A axis

"crazy town"

1. linear motor
2. ?

I can't find anyone attempting this anywhere.  If someone knows of a build please post it!

is this a crazy idea?


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## C-Bag (Jan 3, 2019)

I didn't vomit on my keyboard so I guess I'm not that much of a purist but I do wonder if any of these proposed interesting things would improve the function? One man's interesting thing is another man's blank stare. I personally don't use carbide on any of my machine tools and so far have not needed to. Relying on carbide tooling would imply you are going to speed up the shaper to I could only guess a frantic pace. This much weight reciprocating that fast and trying to keep it accurate seems like messing with Mother Nature. I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm because I know what it's like to have that kind of "light bulb" go off in my head too but I'd not do this to some Old Iron as you would be working against its intended function IMHO. I think this might have been one of the reasons the shaper design was abandoned but I don't know for sure.

The things I love about my shaper is using inexpensive HSS tooling I grind myself and that it has no electronic black boxes that foul up and I can't fix. All the mechanical problems I've been able to fix. So if you come up with a better mousetrap, cool, please post. 

The thing I would most want to add to my 7b would be an automatic down feed. I of course would do it analog mechanically like the rest of the machine. That's my limitation and I'm ok with that.

I wish you the best of luck and hope to see what you come up with here.


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## Bob Korves (Jan 3, 2019)

ABOMINATION!!!           

Seriously, keep us in the loop and post your progress with the project.  Sounds interesting.


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## f350ca (Jan 3, 2019)

A stepper motor on the down feed might have a lot of merit. I've thought about doing it mechanically but this might be a lot easier. 
I already have a DRO on my 18 inch Peerless, one step toward the 21st century.

Greg


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## C-Bag (Jan 3, 2019)

you could be right Greg. The stepper would still involve a gear train for the stepper and that whole thing going with the ram back and forth makes my head swim with peril. The problem with the downfeed for me is the play in the leadscrew and the havoc with that whole thing. One thing that was mentioned elsewhere was on somebody else's shaper the auto feed in on the knee. Feeding up. That would solve several problems in that there wouldn't be stuff mounted to the ram and not having to deal with either making the gibs so tight on the cutter head so it doesn't wander from gravity and the pull of the cut. There is also more room for a stepper motor on the 7b down where the knee adjuster is. A DRO would be nice too.


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## f350ca (Jan 3, 2019)

I have auto feed on the knee but down feed on the cutter would be great when cutting dove tails or when I made the racks for my cnc plasma table. I had the head swung 14 1/2 degree and plunged the tooth, over and over and over for about 5 foot of rack.
Im not a programer or electronic expert, but couldn't a processor over feed the down stroke then retract to remove slack in the screw nut combination so that it can't dig in. That would all have to happen on the return stroke.

Greg


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## JimDawson (Jan 3, 2019)

Sure, why not.  Sounds like a fun project, and a great engineering excersize.


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## C-Bag (Jan 3, 2019)

hmm, I'd not thought about needing the angle feed that could only be done with the cutter head. But you are right and that mechanism of tightening and loosening the gib is what's got me stumped because without that I've learned the hard way I'm inducing error. I think my idea for a mechanical downfeed would work, it's the tightening and loosening of the gib.....

BTW, glad to see you back Greg.


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## greenail (Jan 3, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> I didn't vomit on my keyboard so I guess I'm not that much of a purist but I do wonder if any of these proposed interesting things would improve the function?



the idea is almost as impractical as the hand shaper!  the goal would be to learn but i'm not quire sure what yet 




C-Bag said:


> One man's interesting thing is another man's blank stare. I personally don't use carbide on any of my machine tools and so far have not needed to. Relying on carbide tooling would imply you are going to speed up the shaper to I could only guess a frantic pace. This much weight reciprocating that fast and trying to keep it accurate seems like messing with Mother Nature.



the acceleration control would be something interesting to model in the controller.  The nice thing about doing a shaper with CNC is that you could adapt the acceleration curve to the job/tooling/stroke which may improve the results.  A mechanical shaper is limited in how much you can control the curve by the drive mechanism which is fixed in most shapers i've seen (fixed based on stroke length).



C-Bag said:


> I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm because I know what it's like to have that kind of "light bulb" go off in my head too but I'd not do this to some Old Iron as you would be working against its intended function IMHO. I think this might have been one of the reasons the shaper design was abandoned but I don't know for sure.



i'm not thinking of modifying an old shaper but building one, likely a very small one, from scratch.



C-Bag said:


> The things I love about my shaper is using inexpensive HSS tooling I grind myself and that it has no electronic black boxes that foul up and I can't fix. All the mechanical problems I've been able to fix. So if you come up with a better mousetrap, cool, please post.
> 
> The thing I would most want to add to my 7b would be an automatic down feed. I of course would do it analog mechanically like the rest of the machine. That's my limitation and I'm ok with that.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck and hope to see what you come up with here.



it is just an idea at this point.  thanks for the feedback.


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## greenail (Jan 3, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> hmm, I'd not thought about needing the angle feed that could only be done with the cutter head. But you are right and that mechanism of tightening and loosening the gib is what's got me stumped because without that I've learned the hard way I'm inducing error. I think my idea for a mechanical downfeed would work, it's the tightening and loosening of the gib.....
> 
> BTW, glad to see you back Greg.



You could have a servo kick the gib lock AND also build a knee feed!


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## C-Bag (Jan 3, 2019)

I'm wondering if I'm over thinking the need for the gib lock. When I think back I've seen many a shaper user hand down feeding with no apparent problems. Maybe the need to lock the gibs is only on a flat surface. When I think about it my discovery that things went out of flat was over inches of X travel, not for a while. And it was flat for who knows how many strokes at .005 per stroke. After I put the manual gib locks on it like Frugalguido's that stopped. So I probably am overthinking the need for the articulated gib lock if I'm downfeeding. It is fun to think about though


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## f350ca (Jan 3, 2019)

You may not need a gib lock but when down feeding it does tend to hold up then drop the slack out of the feed. Thats where a processor could over feed then pull back up to the desired depth, eliminating the backlash. Its a fine line adjusting the drag on the gib to stop the cutter pulling down and still move the thread smoothly.

Greg


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## C-Bag (Jan 3, 2019)

Would a ball screw be feasible?


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## f350ca (Jan 3, 2019)

Probably, I have no experience with them. The concept of over feeding and coming back was on one of I think his name is Stephan's (the German chap, incredible machinist) videos where he used a stepper to control a rotary table, if he wanted to go backwards he used this concept to remove the backlash in the worm drive.

Greg


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## C-Bag (Jan 3, 2019)

Of course this is all beyond my payscale, but with a rotary table I would think you'd backpedal because of all the weight and inertia taking up your play possibly. I wouldn't think there would be as much inertia with the cutter head. I guess if you had all this programmable it would be more possible to step your next cut, backpedal and step back all while the ram was on the return stoke. Doing it mechanically, wow. 

One thing that would be very handy would be an electronic stop, especially if it was DRO controlled. Probably already have it and my Luddite self doesn't know it. I love that I can set up the shaper and go do something else and just keep an eye out but it would be better if it would shut off. I guess it's not hard to rig a stop switch. But I'm so electronically phobic and lazy I'd rather keep an eye out.


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## benmychree (Jan 3, 2019)

Another solution in search of a problem.


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## eugene13 (Jan 3, 2019)

See if you can make it cut threads.


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## rgray (Jan 4, 2019)

The electronic lock is something I've wondered about for my electronic dividing head. I copied: http://www.liming.org/millindex/
I added the snailworks electronics to my Harold Hall dividing head. The stepper is oversize with the idea that that is the locking-holding power.
But I usually lock the manual lock when cutting anyway. If it locked after rotation and unlocked before rotation by itself it would be handy.
A rotary actuator and some extra programing on the arduino would probably do it. I'm just not to good with the programing part.

Same kind of setup could lock the gib. Be it actuator, solenoid, or even a stepper. Probably need some linkage and possibly some spring loading also.


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## cjtoombs (Jan 5, 2019)

I've put a bit of thought into CNCing a shaper.  I wouldn't be in a terrible hurry to control the tool angle.  You can cut angles and shapes using the cross and downfeed, you will likely need to use multiple tools to do complicated geometry anyway.  Here are the requirements that I came up with:

1.  No need for ballscrews.  My plan was for a retrofit, so finding room for ballscrews would be a problem anyway, but there is no need.  You are not cutting circles or complicated shapes such as in a mill, and you are always approaching the cut from the same direction, backlash compensation will work fine.

2.  The drives need only be fast enough to make the maximum move during the highest stroke speed.  In other words you will only be moving the the motors before and after the cut, not during.  

3.  There is no need for a clapper.  You can retract the tool away from the cut at an angle before the backstroke starts and advance it before the cutting stroke starts.  How fast you can do this will determine your maximum cut/stroke (also the lead in/lead out of the tool is part of this equation).

4.  As with any CNC machine, changing tools quickly will be key to this machine being useful or a novelty.  A quick change tool system will be needed.

5.  Since you will need to be able to figure this out in some sort of CAD/CAM, standardized tools will be needed.  This is one are that begs for inserted carbide.  Not often used on shapers and planers, it doesn't mean they can't be.  Grade would need to be as soft as possible to withstand the interrupted cut.

6.  A fancy custom controller is not needed.  A Beaglebone Black running machinekit was what I was thinking of using.  You would need to put some sensors on the machine to give positional feedback of the ram in addition to the normal limit switches.

7.  The real problem is the CAD/CAM.  You only really need the G0 movement code, as you will always be moving the tool at the max the drives can move it.  Figuring out that movement and writing the G code efficiently is the problem.   With my limited software skill/desire/patients for programming I was thinking of doing something in Excel that would allow you to string together facing at angles, slots, curves and dovetails to build the code for the machine.  I'm sure someone else out there has the skills to do something much better than that.

I already have the test subject to try this on, an 8 inch Lewis kit shaper.  But there are many more projects ahead of this one, so I don't expect anything to happen on it anytime soon.  If it worked on well on the Lewis, I was going to put it on my 16" G&E and really move some metal.


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## greenail (Jan 5, 2019)

I wonder what scale would be good to do a prototype with?  

quick change tool holder is a great idea!


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## cjtoombs (Jan 5, 2019)

Whatever you can get for cheap would be where I would start, preferably smaller.  Gary Martin at Martin Model & Pattern sells a casting kit for small hand shaper that could be converted to powered operation, but it isn't what I would call cheap (I have one, by the way, still unmachined).  For me the Lewis is kind of perfect, since it was a kit shaper they were pretty much all different, so If I wind up having to make some mods to it, it's not like I'm ruining a piece of history.  One other thing I forgot to mention above, it will need to have an automatic oiling system.  With the antique shapers, and a lot of the small hobby shapers, there was an expectation that you would stand over the machine and squirt oil in various places as needed.  My Lewis shows the futility of this with scored ram ways, but that's another story.  CNC is something you expect to hit the start button and walk away from,  so the machine needs to be capable of it.  The ram oiling system on the Cincinnati shapers is a good prototype for this, it is what I was considering for the Lewis.


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## frugalguido (Mar 12, 2020)

To bring back an old thread, I am going to try and model a 42" Cincinnati XM-1 shaper, (1/5 scale), which was probably the most up to modern shaper ever made(1955), sadly it came out too late to make it into production (high ram speed (400 ft per minute), carbide capable). I want to make it look like the XM-1 on the outside with the screw driven triangle shaped ram, but using modern electronics (magnetic rotary encoder for ram position,CNC motor driven table and knee. Call me crazy for trying this! I am going to make a small model of the basic concept to see if my idea even works, just on a napkin at this point. Input?


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## JimDawson (Mar 12, 2020)

No reason it wouldn't work.  I would use a magnetic linear encoder rather than a rotary for the ram position.  I have these on my CNC mill, and for my lathe DRO.  Bulletproof and very accurate.


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## frugalguido (Mar 12, 2020)

I was looking at using a AS5134 programmable high speed magnetic rotary encoder. It can program zero position and has 9 bit multi turn counter. With this I can zero the beginning of the ram start position and count to the end of ram stoke at specific material location, store this count in memory, thus I have zero (beginning stoke)  and the high count (end of stoke) . Then oscillate between these two counts (When the ram is at max count travel then reverses count back down to zero). I would still use end travel emergency switches. This is what I am thinking right now, but still in the research phase.






						AS5134 High Speed Magnetic Rotary Encoder - ams | DigiKey
					

ams AS5134 is a contactless magnetic rotary encoder for accurate angular measurement over a full turn of 360°.



					www.digikey.com


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## cjtoombs (Mar 12, 2020)

I've actual put quite a bit of thought into this, as I have shaper syndrome, a condition in which you impulsively buy shapers and planers until you no longer have room for anything else in your shop, house or yard.

Here are my thoughts (and I am working on plans to convert a Lewis shaper to CNC right now)
Requirements:
1.  CNC machines are meant to be set up, turned on and basically forgotten until you need to change the part.  Shapers, especially the older ones require constant attention.  Any CNC shaper that is more than a proof of concept will need to have either sealed bearings or automatic oiling for the ram moving parts.  I've seen too many shapers and planers with ram ways scored because of lack of lubrication.

2.  CNC machines need a tooling system that is easy to change out and consistent, which means some sort of quick change tooling system.  I had planned on using a BXA lathe tool post with custom holders and carbide insert tools on my machine.  

3.  You don't need a clapper box.  You also don't need the toolhead to rotate, in fact it should be pinned perpendicular to the table travel.  You should be able to just program the tool to move a clearance distance away from the cut on the back stroke.  You can also program it to cut any angle within the capability of the tools you have. 

4.  You don't need ballscrews.  Some sort of backlash takeup would be nice on the toolhead, but force on that tool should only ever be in the upward direction, I thought about using some air springs for it to take that up.  You should be able to get away with planning the cuts to not change directions and use backlash compensation.  For that and a few other reasons that I will get to further down, LinuxCNC is my choice for control software.

5.  You don't need encoders on the ram system.  Some hall sensors and magnets or switches and a cam should be sufficient.  Some adjust ability would be nice if you wanted to make sure you had the maximum time to move the tool in and out of the cut, although I won't know if this is needed until I see how fast I can accelerate the table and workhead.  You could also compensate for this somewhat by using more lead in and lead out for the tool to the part at the ends of the cut.  If you wanted to automate a bit more, you could use an encoder and do some software work in LinucCNC to set them by positioning the ram and pushing a button.  This is another reason I like LinuxCNC, there are existing M codes for digital input and output that can be used for this or turning on an oil pump, if you don't have a mechanically driven one. 

The real problem that I see with a CNC shaper is the lack of a CAM tool to build the G code files with.  I've been working on something in Excel VBA, but I'm no programmer, so it has been slow going.  The CAM tool should be able to make facing cuts (cut starts on the side of the work and goes to the other side or the top of the work), plunge cuts (cut starts on the top of the work and goes to the bottom or out he side), slotting cuts, dovetail cuts, inside and outside radius cuts and other specialized cuts such as gear generation.  It should be able to do all these cuts at any angle the tool is capable of.  That's a pretty tall order, but I think I've figured out (part of) the math and logic of it, I'm just having trouble with the programming end of it.  They still make new shapers in China and India, and I checked once long ago and they sold a CNC shaper from China.  Don't know if there was a software package that went with it, though. 

Good luck, that's quite an ambitious project.


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## frugalguido (Mar 13, 2020)

Thanks for your insight on the CNC shaper ideas.  I case someone is interested, here is the patent # on the XM-1, 2944468





						Patent Public Search | USPTO
					






					pdfpiw.uspto.gov


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## JimDawson (Mar 13, 2020)

frugalguido said:


> I was looking at using a AS5134 programmable high speed magnetic rotary encoder. It can program zero position and has 9 bit multi turn counter. With this I can zero the beginning of the ram start position and count to the end of ram stoke at specific material location, store this count in memory, thus I have zero (beginning stoke)  and the high count (end of stoke) . Then oscillate between these two counts (When the ram is at max count travel then reverses count back down to zero). I would still use end travel emergency switches. This is what I am thinking right now, but still in the research phase.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Depending on how you set up the system and what drive motors you use, you may not need an additional encoder.  For instance, if you are going to use a servo motor to drive the ram, then it would have a built in encoder.  Exactly how the ram position is controlled is really dependant on the controller that you use.


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## frugalguido (Mar 13, 2020)

Would a servo motor encoder have the ability to count and be zeroed?


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## JimDawson (Mar 13, 2020)

It depends on the controller as to how that is handled.  There are a lot of options.  There are servos that can be programmed to operate between two points, other options are more controller dependant.  Since you are really going to have a multi-axis machine, some kind of a normal CNC controller would work well.  But again, there are a lot of options.

For instance using any CNC controller a simple G code program would do exactly what you want.  Let's call the ram axis X, then the G code would look something like this:
G1 X6.00 (move out 6 inches)
G0 X0.00 (rapid return to 0)

Then just loop the code, and add a Y move to move the table over for the next pass.  There are several ways to do this.  The proper code format could be generated in just about any CAM program.


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## cjtoombs (Mar 13, 2020)

Just to be clear, the thesis I wrote above assumed a retrofit of an existing machine, not a new build.  I had also thought about building a small machine using a NEMA 34 stepper for the ram power.  Using an encoder with or without a servo motor would require the use of more sophisticated control software, such as LinuxCNC or Mach 4 (which typically require more expensive processing and interface hardware).  One other reason I chose LinuxCNC for my (possible) build is that it has a wait for input M code (M66).  My plan was not to use any move commands except for G0.  The moves would be programmed with a G0 move then an M66 command.  The machine would wait for the signal that the ram was at the rear, then move the cutter to the cut position, then upon reviving the M66 command for the ram forward it would move the tool to the clear position, repeating this until the cut was completed.  If you think about it, there are no other movement commands need for a shaper.  Being able to change the position of the M66 commands so that it gets the command as soon as it clears the material on either end of the work would allow more time for the axis motors to move to either the cut or clear positions (as would more tool run from the edge of the material).  I don't know if this is actually needed in practice, as a reasonably sized stepper motor may be able to make these moves in plenty of time for reasonable shaper run speeds.  It's something I need to look into.  You need to have some tool run from the edge of the material because the speed of the ram is not constant and slows down rapidly towards the ends of travel, so to keep a reasonable surface speed on the cut some is needed.  I usually leave about 3/4" on the lead in and about 1/2" on the way out of the material, but that depends on the setup to some extent (and how much stroke I have left).


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## frugalguido (Mar 14, 2020)

I was thinking of using a AC servo motor the ram on the actual shaper not on the  proof of concept model. The real machine would use a multi start high lead screw for the ram, just as the XM-1 ( the screw on the XM-1 was about 3" diameter from my modeling) Hear is my thinking on basic use of the machine, jog to the starting point (as you mentioned .75") set zero on the encoder/controller, jog to the stop point (the encoder has been counting the turns of the motor or screw all this time) set the stop point, control would remember this count value. Now the controller would oscillate  between these two values, when the controller is reaching these values it would decelerate before changing directions. When at the zero/home count the controller would then output signal to the other axis motors, before starting the ram again. The M66 sound like it would work when the counter reaches zero count if I understand what you are saying?


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## JimDawson (Mar 14, 2020)

You can set 0,0,0 anywhere you want.  Normally done with a mouse click depending on the controller.  Doesn't make a difference if you are using steppers or servos to power the machine.  The controller keeps track of what is going on, you only need to tell it what to do, normally done with G code, unless you want to reinvent the wheel. 

Here is an example of normal G code that would run a shaper and face off a part.  This G code would run on pretty much any controller.

(simple facing operation, generated in CamBam)
(part is 2x4 inches, placed in the vise with the long axis aligned with the X axis)
(0.5'' clearance on both ends of the cut)
(assumes a 0.050 nose radius tool)
(cutting speed 5 IPM, F5.0 Line N35)
(assumes X is the ram axis, Y is the table (cross) axis, and Z is the tool up/dn axis)

N15 *G17* (set X/Y cutting mode)
N25 *G0 Z0.01* (move tool to 0.01 above part)
N30 *G0 X-0.0004 Y2.025* (rapid X and Y to start position)
N35 *G1 F5.0 Z-0.01* (lower Z for a 0.01 depth of cut)
N40 *G1 X5.0* (cut at 5 IPM to 5 inches from start, most likely way too slow)
N45 *G1 X5.0004* ( I have no idea why this line is here, a 0.0004 move?)
N50 *G0 Z0.01* (raise Z 0.01 above work)
N55 *G0 X-0.02 Y2.015* (rapid retract X to start position and and reposition the table for the next pass)
N60 *G1 Z-0.01* (lower Z for the next pass)
N65 *G1 X5.02* (make the next pass)
.
. (rinse/repeat until the face off operation is complete
.
.
.
.
N1105 *G1 X0.0*
N1110 *G0 Z0.01*
N1120 *M30* (end of program)


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## greenail (Mar 14, 2020)

wouldn't hydraulics be more ideal for driving the ram?

you could use a rack/pinion and encoder to get some positional feedback for cheap...  checkout dcservo https://github.com/misan/dcservo runs arduino code and should be good enough for the ram.  Another option is https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl  which is for ac servo.

 A regular stepper or closed loop stepper would work for the other positions.


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## cjtoombs (Mar 14, 2020)

JimDawson said:


> You can set 0,0,0 anywhere you want.  Normally done with a mouse click depending on the controller.  Doesn't make a difference if you are using steppers or servos to power the machine.  The controller keeps track of what is going on, you only need to tell it what to do, normally done with G code, unless you want to reinvent the wheel.
> 
> Here is an example of normal G code that would run a shaper and face off a part.  This G code would run on pretty much any controller.
> 
> ...




You can't use G1 with a shaper.  You need to move the tool to the cut position, leave it while the ram makes it's cut.  Then you need to rapid to the position where it will clear the cut on the backstroke.  Then you need to rapid again to the cut position before the ram re-engages the work.  So the G Code is just G0 moves alternating with M66's that tell you when to move.  With a G1, the tool will drag on the return stroke, so there should be no movement except rapids at either end of the stroke.


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## cjtoombs (Mar 14, 2020)

greenail said:


> wouldn't hydraulics be more ideal for driving the ram?
> 
> you could use a rack/pinion and encoder to get some positional feedback for cheap...  checkout dcservo https://github.com/misan/dcservo runs arduino code and should be good enough for the ram.  Another option is https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl  which is for ac servo.
> 
> A regular stepper or closed loop stepper would work for the other positions.



Historically shapers have been driven by Whitworth quick return mechanisms (the most common), hydraulics, screws and rack and pinions.  Unless you are an expert in hydraulics, I would stick with the mechanical movements.  On a CNC machine with electronic control of the ram position, the rack and pinion or screw would be best, as you can easily control the cut speed to be constant while it is cutting.  The Whitworth mechanism is nice if you have a constant speed motor because it gives you a quick return, but the speed of cut varies throughout the cutting stroke.  A ballscrew would be good, but you would need a fairly large one as the loads would be pretty high.  Rack and pinion would require some gearing on the motor to get the speed in the right range.  An acme lead screw would be very inefficient,  but would work for a proof of concept if you wanted to whack something together for not much money to work out the electronics and g code you need.


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## JimDawson (Mar 14, 2020)

cjtoombs said:


> You can't use G1 with a shaper. You need to move the tool to the cut position, leave it while the ram makes it's cut. Then you need to rapid to the position where it will clear the cut on the backstroke. Then you need to rapid again to the cut position before the ram re-engages the work.



That's exactly what the code snippet above does.  A G1 move is just a controlled feed move of one or more axes.


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## cjtoombs (Mar 15, 2020)

JimDawson said:


> That's exactly what the code snippet above does.  A G1 move is just a controlled feed move of one or more axes.



I am familiar with G code.  I just don't think that's the best way to run the machine.


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## Dabbler (Apr 1, 2020)

very nice thought experiment....  ah, the possibilities!  Anyone for a CNC horizontal mill?  

Seroiusly, there is a gear cutter in Richmond, BC that uses shapers to rough out gear blanks prior to hobbing.  They use intricate mechanical tables to roate the gear blanks during the stroke of the ram... Perhaps they are missing a trick!


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## greenail (Apr 1, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> very nice thought experiment....  ah, the possibilities!  Anyone for a CNC horizontal mill?
> 
> Seroiusly, there is a gear cutter in Richmond, BC that uses shapers to rough out gear blanks prior to hobbing.  They use intricate mechanical tables to roate the gear blanks during the stroke of the ram... Perhaps they are missing a trick!



a horizontal mill would be the same as a vertical mill, you just change the coordinate axis's.  should be very easy.


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## frugalguido (Apr 1, 2020)

On my Deckel CNC, it has both vertical and horizontal spindles, you just tell the control which one to use.


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## Weldo (May 1, 2020)

Hey, I don't know if this helps anyone but when I saw this I thought of this thread.

This is a video from youtube of How It's Made, sharpening steels.

Watch closely around 0:56, there's a shaper adding the tiny grooves to the steels.  Looks like it might have some kind of power feed options.  It has air lines all over it anyway.  A curiosity at least.


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## greenail (Aug 13, 2020)

i played around with a variable stroke mechanism today....


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## greenail (Aug 17, 2020)

So that mechanism isn't really all that great but I think I did come up with a decent idea.  Since the castings are hard to come by laser cut steel may be a good way to get a small machine going fairly quickly.  Anyone have experience building a machine around laser cut parts?  SendCutSend seems to have good prices and they can cut up to 5/8 steel.  I'm not sure how much the shipping would be though.


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## Dabbler (Aug 17, 2020)

I've had water jet parts made on a local CNC water jet and that worked very well for me.


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## cjtoombs (Aug 18, 2020)

I had some metal cut for a furniture project at a place about 100 miles from me.  Cut quality was excellent and they only use P&O (pickled and oiled) steel, so you don't have to worry about trying to clean off the mill scale to weld and paint.  It cost about somewhere between 1.5 and 2 times what the metal for the project would have cost, and that would have been plain, not P&O steel.  If you have a small job, the online places might be better, I think the minimum charge for the place I took mine to was $150, so only good for larger projects.  If you do have a larger project, I would search nearby as the shipping costs will eat you up, local will likely beat it.


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