# Heavy 10 - Power Cross Feed doesnt work



## Jerry457 (Feb 6, 2013)

I finished my restroation of my Heavy 10 and started it up. Everyhting worked well except the Power Cross feed.

I engage to turn Lead Screw and set selector to up or down position but when I engage cluth Cross feed doesnt feed

Any ideas?

I may just pull the Apron to review but it looked good and assembly went toghter fine per the book.

Thanks in advance


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## Rick_B (Feb 6, 2013)

Does the longitudinal feed work (tail stock to head stock direction)?  If so that would seem to eliminate the clutch as the problem.\

Rick


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## Jerry457 (Feb 6, 2013)

Rick_B said:


> Does the longitudinal feed work (tail stock to head stock direction)?  If so that would seem to eliminate the clutch as the problem.\
> 
> Rick



No. No power feeds work at all.


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## Rick_B (Feb 6, 2013)

if the lead screw is turning and neither feeds work then I would start with the clutch

Rick


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## woodtickgreg (Feb 6, 2013)

Rick_B said:


> if the lead screw is turning and neither feeds work then I would start with the clutch
> 
> Rick


Agreed.


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## Jerry457 (Feb 7, 2013)

woodtickgreg said:


> Agreed.



Thanks everyone. I will pull the apron off and rebuild the cluth again and see what happens


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## McGuyvers shop (Feb 9, 2013)

I haven't actually found any instructions on how the controls on the SB lathes are supposed to work, only through playing with the controls and seeing what happens. At first mine didn't work, and it was because the lead screw was not turning.  I jiggled the lever on the gear box until it clicked into place and the lead screw started.  Still , until I screwed the knob on the apron in tight, there wasn't any movement. Now I think I have it all figured out.  The selector switch on the apron choosed longitude or cross direction, and the knob makes it happen. I believe the half nut lever is for threading only.  Is this how it works for everyone else?


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## Splat (Feb 9, 2013)

FWIW *here's* an excellent source of info and pics on a South Bend Heavy 10. The owner's name is Ryan but I don't know his last name..it may be Battelle?  Maybe there's some info that will help. Good luck.


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## Jerry457 (May 6, 2013)

I finally pulled the apron and took the clutch apart and reassembled. It wasnt that bad to remove and open up. After I installed apron back on lathe the power cross feed still does not work. I know it worked before I tore everything down.

I suspec the Lever to engage power feed isn't properly reassembled as it doesnt feel to engage anything when I move it up or down.

My plan is to go thru assembly per the book again and try again. This is the only item that doesnt perform. Everyhthing else works or is now fixed (such as bull gear pin) and quick change gears etc.


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## Chuck K (May 6, 2013)

Jerry, I don't have a parts breakdown for a 10L...but all the aprons are just about the same.  I'm sure if you have it sitting on your bench and play around with it you'll find your problem.  I can tell you for sure that nothing is going to happen if your clutch doesn't engage.  I can't remember if that machine has clutch discs or a taper setup, but it's possible that your problem is just something that isn't assembled correctly in your clutch.  You might also check the key in the worm gear.  If its missing, you can have everything else working perfectly but the worm gear will just free-wheel around the lead screw.  Good Luck.

Chuck


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## Jerry457 (May 7, 2013)

Chuck,

Thanks for the encourgement and I agree. Once I get it off again I will check to see if gears engage and turn. If not then rebuild and check to make certain it does before putting back on compound. It has to be the gears dont engage to turn but may need to replace cluth as well.

Thanks


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## Jerry457 (May 11, 2013)

Ok pulled apron and tore it down. It appears Idler gear wasn't engaging so after reassembly tested and it appeared to turn both the cross feed gear and compound gear. After putting back on lathe and engaging with the clutch the compound feed dial would turn slightly as did the cross feed wheel. I have to think its the clutch which isn't engaged properly. I will either get apron off eBAY or purchase new clutch and replace disks to see if that helps engage.


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## Chuck K (May 11, 2013)

Jerry, Just to clarify, I'm going to assume that you when you say cross feed, you mean longitudinal feed....and when you say compound feed you mean cross feed.  Doesn't really matter, it sounds like neither are working.  I don't doubt that your clutch has some wear.  It just seems unlikely that it wouldn't drive the feeds at all.  I've had lathes with severely worn clutches that would slip under load, but they would still work fairly well.  I would take a closer look at the way you assembled the clutch.  Do the discs get tight when you tighten the star wheel (or lever is so equipped)?  You should be able to trouble shoot it without putting it back on the lathe.  You might as well figure out exactly what your problem is before you start buying parts for it.


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## Jerry457 (May 11, 2013)

Thanks Chuck. Yes neither works. I torn it down again and rebuilt clutch. I turned everything and it appeared to engage. Installed back onto lathe and would briefly work then stopped again. Long feed and compound. I have a lever and would pull it as far out as possible but nothing engaged. The lever to turn on power feed does lock out half nuts. I have to believe the clutch is the issue. I tested I thought disks get tight when I test the lever. From the book the disks don't appear fully seated but cannot seem to get them any further down into the pack.  I will tear it down again - doesn't take that long and try again. Otherwise the lathe eat steel like butter. Still learning but with sharp tool can really turn the metal. Heavy 10 is great machine. Just wanted all of it to work. I can still accomplish what I want just wanted all the pieces to work.


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## Richard King (May 11, 2013)

Splat said:


> FWIW *here's* an excellent source of info and pics on a South Bend Heavy 10. The owner's name is Ryan but I don't know his last name..it may be Battelle?  Maybe there's some info that will help. Good luck.



The *Here's* ink that Splat gave, shows the clutch assembly really good.  I would pull the lead screw off the machine and slide it into the gear and as one fellow suggested check to be sure the key in the feed shaft gear is not worn away.  Then have a friend turn the shaft by hand and you engage or tighten  the star nut and see what turns and what slips.  In the past when I am in a bind and have to get the machine running while I am waiting for new parts I shim behind the clutches and the snap ring.  Or if can cut a steel shim that looks like clutch plates and insert it in the assembly.  With the feed shaft out of the machine and being turned by hand you can safely check the operation.  Rich

PS:  I have also seen the taper pin holding the feed screw to the quick change is broken and the feed screw turns when not under load and looks OK, but when it is under load it slips.  One of the other guys asked if the feed screw turned and I didn't see where you answered him, so if you answered this already, better safe the sorry, by asking.      Rich


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## bcall2043 (May 11, 2013)

Jerry457 said:


> Thanks Chuck. Yes neither works. I torn it down again and rebuilt clutch. I turned everything and it appeared to engage. Installed back onto lathe and would briefly work then stopped again. Long feed and compound. I have a lever and would pull it as far out as possible but nothing engaged. The lever to turn on power feed does lock out half nuts. I have to believe the clutch is the issue. I tested I thought disks get tight when I test the lever. From the book the disks don't appear fully seated but cannot seem to get them any further down into the pack.  I will tear it down again - doesn't take that long and try again. Otherwise the lathe eat steel like butter. Still learning but with sharp tool can really turn the metal. Heavy 10 is great machine. Just wanted all of it to work. I can still accomplish what I want just wanted all the pieces to work.



You probably already did this but just in case I saw a comment in post #230 of this thread: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/7459-Heavy-10-project/page8 about keeping the knob tight during assembly of the clutch. 

Benny
The Orphanage Never Closes


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## Jerry457 (May 11, 2013)

bcall2043 said:


> You probably already did this but just in case I saw a comment in post #230 of this thread: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/7459-Heavy-10-project/page8 about keeping the knob tight during assembly of the clutch.
> 
> Benny
> The Orphanage Never Closes



Lead screw turns fine. With half nuts engaged, the compound and saddle move both directions - forward and reverse without issue. I have pulled apron again. Take me about 3 minutes. I know its clutch but cant get it to assembly when putting back into apron. It seems to pop out slightly then I can tell from the back of clutch pack it not together. I called it a night and will try again Sunday. Again thanks everyone for their ideas and thoughts. If I can't get it to work, I can always use the half nuts to move tool while turning. Facing off will just have to get smooth with practice.


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## Jerry457 (May 12, 2013)

SUCESS!!! I rebuilt clutch assembly again. Added another washer to clutch pack and put it back together. Also the retaining nut screw holds out the bushing which extends out some from front of apron. It does not appear exactly like the book but again it appears to work. The cross feed worked right off. The longitudinal feed I have to pull out the knob on the power feed shift lever once its moved up but then the hand wheel turns and the entire apron and saddle/compound moves. It makes a humming sound when clutch is engaged. I let go of knob on power feed shift lever and the apron and compound stops. Maybe this is by design. I can release clutch then move lever to neutral. When I move the power feed lever in down position I hit the clutch and feed screen handle turns and dial spins. I can put my hand on it and feel a good resistance also the lead screw and gearbox groans with additional pressure of me holding but it still moves. Pushes my hand off the crank handle as I can feel the tension of everything working. Thank again everyone for their thoughts and suggestions. All I can say to everyone is keeping trying. I should have taken pictures because it is hard to describe what I did and not sure it was exactly as the book describes.


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## Chuck K (May 12, 2013)

"I let go of knob on power feed shift lever and the apron and compound stops."


Jerry, You kind of lost me here.  Your apron should have 3 basic controls on it.  The lever or star knob that engages and disengages the clutch, a 3 position lever to choose between cross feed, neutral, and longitudinal feeds and a lever to engage the half nuts when the feed lever is positioned in the center (neutral) position.  Is the "power feed shift lever" what I would think of as the "clutch lever".  If that's the case, you shouldn't have to hold it to keep it engaged.  It should lock over center and stay engaged until you unlock it.  The main thing is that you got it working and now it's just a matter of tweaking it.

Chuck


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## Jerry457 (May 13, 2013)

Chuck its the knob on the 3 position lever to move from netural into the up position. For the longitudinal feed to work I move to the up postion alo pull the knob out so it moves. If I let the knob go the feed stops. In down position I dont need to do this. Yes I can engage the clutch lever fine. I will take a video and post


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## Chuck K (May 14, 2013)

Jerry, The knob on the selector lever shouldn't have any effect on the gear engagement.  It's only purpose is to find the detent and hold the lever in that position.  Can you move the selector lever without pulling out on the knob? Unless I'm completely misunderstanding what you're saying, it should be no different than a transmission and clutch in a truck.  Once you shift it into a gear, it stays in that gear, and you engage the drive with the clutch.  If your driving down the road and have to hold the gear shifter to keep it from jumping out of gear, something is probably wrong with your transmission.  I would be interested in seeing the video.

Chuck


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## rw1 (May 17, 2013)

Jerry,

Glad you got it working......  I've been away and just saw your thread.   

That 3 position lever on the Apron should have a knurled knob that has a spring loaded pin.  This pin projects into the 3 different holes in the Apron to hold lever in place for:   Neutral (threading) ,  Longitude Feed, Cross Feed

That clutch mechanism really has to be put together with very little "slop" allowed for the cam action of the lever. You really have to hold everything tight when threading on the Cam Lever.  Then, just loosen the Cam Lever maybe half a turn at MOST to act as a starting adjustment point.  Those clutch discs need to remain very close together I believe.   I remember it only takes a 1/16" of an inch to make a difference in working or not.  Glad you got it going by taking up the slack with another washer......but that does seem odd.


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