# Saving a Craftsman 6" 101.07301



## TonimusMaximus

Hello everyone. New to the forum. I have no lathe experience, but a fair amount of general fabrication experience. Picked up a 101.07301. I've got a bunch of replacement parts on the way. I'm hoping to recoup some of that by selling off some of the parts that are still good that I'll have extras. Like I bought a whole tailstock assembly rather than trying to piece it all together.

I called Clausing this morning. Got a quote for new bearings. The left spindle bearing/bushing is out of stock and two weeks out. Once it gets here, I'll have another batch of parts on the way. Yeah, I probably could've waited and bought something cheaper, or even bought a Harbor Freight lathe, but this one tickled my fancy. And there's something to be said for being able to buy parts in chunks versus having to buy it all at once.

EDIT: I can't attach pics from Flickr. Says it is "spam like content".
DOUBLE EDIT: Downloaded and uploaded to forum to get to post.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

If anyone can help me locate the last little bits I need, I would appreciate it...

I need:
-A pair of backgear bushings. The lathe only had one in it, and it is quite worn.
-Directions to a compound and tool rest that'll fit and not cost and hopefully not cost an arm and a leg.

For a backplate, I plan on welding a 2H grade nut to a piece of 1/2" plate and turning it circular. Then I'll scribe the correct bolt hole pattern for whatever. Then I need to figure out what chuck I'm going to start with.


----------



## WCraig

Strictly speaking, you don't have to have a compound.  But you would have to have access to a working lathe and a milling machine to make something.  For example, the user-made tool post that came with my Atlas 618 is shown below attached to the cross-slide:




I am only using this for a cutoff tool holder now.  It was a major pain to shim tools to try to get on centre.  If I had to swap out tools, I had to spend a stupid amount of time finding the right combination of shims.  I quickly bought a 0XA quick change tool post from Shars and then 6 more tool holders.  My compound has some slop in it and so with the QCTP mounted it is not quite as rigid but it works well for most things.  I have some ideas for improving the compound.  

My lathe came with a tired 3-jaw chuck that has significant run-out.  I bought a 4-jaw, again from Shars, that I'm pretty happy with.  Their backplate (cast iron) was only about USD $40 and was threaded and drilled to match the chuck.  It was a simple matter to finish turning the backing plate true to lathe and to match the chuck.  YMMV.

Craig


----------



## jwmay

While I’m sure you already know, EBay has or will have at some point, just about every little part and piece for these machines. You may have to wait a bit.


----------



## wa5cab

You could also have ordered the back gear bushings from Clausing along with the spindle bushings.  

Although you have to be a Donor ($10/year minimum) in order to have access, in Downloads you will find a clean copy of the Craftsman parts list, among other things.

Most of the parts on a 101.07301, and I think all of the accessories other than those that screw onto the spindle threads, are the same as those found on or for the Craftsman 101.21400 and Atlas 618.  Most accessories for Atlas 3950 and 10100 and Craftsman 101.21200 are the same as for your machine.  Be aware that although there are some exceptions, most eBay sellers are basically clueless as to what they are selling.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Clausing doesn't list the back gear bushing. I had the part number (M6-249), but they had no listing for it.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Just had a guy agree to 3d print two sets of change gears for a stupid low price. I should have them in a few days. I'll post pics when I get them.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

TonimusMaximus said:


> Clausing doesn't list the back gear bushing. I had the part number (M6-249), but they had no listing for it.


I'm an idiot. I was talking about the step pulley bushings they no longer have listed. That's what I only have one for. The back gear bushings seem to be in okay shape. I had the right part number, but they still didn't have it any more.

Another question. On the tumbler main stud, between the stud and compound gear, there are several plastic-ish shim washer things. There is also one on each side of the back gear, between the gear and collar/washer. Does anyone know what these are made of? I've got a vinyl cutter that would make short work of stuff that size. Just need to figure out what it is made of.


----------



## wa5cab

At least in the later 618's, the spacers are made from a gray fiber material.  They are quite common in electronics from that period up through at least the 1960's but I have never heard or seen them referred to as anything other than fiber washers.  Sometimes they are a maroon color but more often gray.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

The material is called fish paper. That's exactly what I needed to know. Thank you. Fish paper is a lot cheaper than plastic shim stock, too.

EDIT: I just ordered a 3" by 20' roll of the stuff. If anyone needs any of the .010" fiber washers, let me know.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Just ordered a full set of bushings. Had the parts lady check for the missing one and it came up this time. I'm glad I asked again. I've got two sets of spindle bushings, a set of back gear bushings, and a set of step pulley bushings on the way. I know there's a lot of material in the back gear bushings, but them little jokers are pricey compared to the rest. It is worth it to put all new bushes, though.

I just need to order a new tailstock side leg, then figure out work and tool holding. All my parts should be here in a couple weeks.


----------



## Robo_Pi

I have nothing to offer but the most sincere best wishes.  It's a really nice small lathe.  It's great to see someone interested in restoring it.  I look forward to seeing the progress and results.  I'm sure it will be fantastic when you are finished with it.   It looks like a really fun project. 

I've been dreaming of restoring a vintage lathe myself.  But I currently have too many other pokers in the fire.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

I have too many projects as well. But with many of them, access to a lathe in the shop would help. Currently my buddy and I are building 2 race cars, overhauling his car trailer, tuning my motorcycle, and then there's our rocketry hobby as well... Having a lathe will definitely help with that. Heck, one of the first things I'll make will be a new tip for one of our rockets.


----------



## Robo_Pi

I understand.  I'm currently replacing the clutch in my pick-up.  And for me that's probably going to take several weeks.  That's because I only work on it when I can find the time.   It's all jacked up and today I removed the gear shift lever.   One little bit at a time.   Maybe tomorrow I'll take off the drive shaft.  

Today I'm, also doing yard work and repairing tools.  Like I just finished repairing a flat tire on the wheelbarrow.

I'm also trying to get at my motorcycle to rebuild it. It's buried under junk where it spent the winter.   It's a 1982 Yamaha Virgo.   My first goal with it is to just try to get it running again.  The carbs will most likely need to be rebuilt, or at least taken apart and cleaned. 

I'm restoring a 1947 and a 1954 Chevy. 

I'm building several robots.  And thinking about adding an outdoor garden railroad to my endless list of "Too many hobbies"   

The rocketry hobby sounds fantastic.   Especially with today's technologies.   You can easily install a camera in it and get some great photos.   Or do countless other scientific experiments.   When I was younger I had dreams of putting a golf-ball sized satellite into orbit using a homemade rocket.  Silly me.  

I love what they are doing now with having the booster rockets come back down and land to be reused.  That is so awesome.

Now that you have me talking about rockery, another idea I used to have was to build a large model jet plane to take my rocket up to a high altitude piggy-back style and then have the rocket launch from that high altitude.  Again, my dream being to put something into orbit as an amateur rocket-man.   From what I understand these ideas are simply out of the question because you can't carry enough fuel to do it.  By the time you add enough fuel to accomplish the task you need a rocket the size of a tall building just to launch the fuel tank.   Apparently that's the major problem. 

But yeah, a rocketry hobby is way cool. 

I'd love to see photos of your rocket projects.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Putting something in orbit is very tough. Just getting to space on the other hand, is feasible. This is the largest/heaviest rocket I've built to date: https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/the-neutral-zone-build-launch-pics-and-vid.126105/
Weighs 50-55 pounds ready for flight and is 11.5 feet tall. Had to build a trailer to launch it.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Launch trailer:




__





						Launch Pad Trailer (Now complete)
					

This is going to be a very slow moving thread. Especially since it's so damn hot out.  Assembled HF trailer, being painted OD Green:   When you're large, it's easy to lift up to paint the underside:   A nearly 60 feet tall antenna tower, after we fought it for HOURS:   After cutting...




					www.rocketryforum.com


----------



## Robo_Pi

That is so cool. 

I used to build Estes rockets when I was a kid.    The biggest one I ever launched was about a foot long.   I did have the one with the little camera inside that would take a snapshot when the parachute opened.

This brings back lots of memories!

I remember having to choose the correct engine so that it would have enough delay between it's final thrust burn and when it would pop the nosecone off to deploy the parachute.   If there was no delay the camera would just take a picture straight up into the sky and that wouldn't be very interesting.  But with enough delay the rocket would turn around and start heading back to earth with the nose pointed down.  Then the parachute would deploy so you could get an shot of the launch pad from a high altitude.

I even had my own darkroom.  That was back in the days of film.   I had to develop the little piece of film myself.   It was pretty cool.

The biggest rocket I ever built was about 3 feet tall, but I never flew that one.   It was my own design and I would have had to by like three of the biggest engines Estes made at the time.   I was a kid and didn't have the money.  Plus I lived in Pennsylvania and it was hard to find a place to launch.  I remember wishing that I lived in Arizona so I could launch bigger rockets.    It's cool that this hobby is still alive and well.

There was another company I used to by rockets and engines from too, I think they were named Centuri Rocket Company?   Are they still around?

I actually like the Centuri rockets better than the Estes.   They had bigger rockets and bigger engines too, if I recall correctly.,

Question for you,....

How large of a rocket are you allowed to launch before you need to get a special permit?

Also are there fuel restrictions?  

The Estes and Centuri engines I used to use were a dry burning fuel that was ignited with a glowing red coil.

But yeah, I used to do this on a very small scale a long time ago in a far off land. 

You've got BIG rockets.  How high do they go?  And what about the FAA?  Do you need to notify anyone when you launch?  What if you hit a jumbo jet?  

That wouldn't be too cool.


----------



## Robo_Pi

I just now watched your videos in post #79 of the Rocketry Forum.   Super Cool!!!

With today's technology you actually get to send up video camera.  Lucky dog!


----------



## Robo_Pi

I was reading the National Association of Rocketry safety rules, and I see that rule #7 states the following:

7. *Size.* My model rocket will not weigh more than 1,500 grams (53 ounces) at liftoff and will not contain more than 125 grams (4.4 ounces) of propellant or 320 N-sec (71.9 pound-seconds) of total impulse. 

So I guess that's the max you can build without moving up to special permits or whatever?

I guess that's about 3.3 lbs.   Was your rocket under 3.3 lbs?


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Well, I think I derailed my own thread!

I still launch small Estes rockets. Smallest uses an "A" motor. Largest motor I've used is a "L" motor. Each letter is twice as powerful as the last. Centuri is no longer around, but several companies clone the more popular Centuri rockets.

As you found, the largest rocket you're allowed to fly completely unregulated is 3.3 pounds including propellant. Above that, you're required to get a FAA waiver to shut down airspace accordingly. That is the main reason Arizona and Nevada are so popular with rocketry hobbyists. Any motor with 125 grams of propellant or 320 Ns thrust requires a NAR or TRA certification. There are 3 certification levels for both associations, which allow you to use progressively larger motors. As far as rocket weight, once you have the FAA waiver, the only upper limit to weight is what can be lofted by the motors you're allowed to get.

There are generally two types of "normal" rocket motors. Compressed black powder motors that most of us remember from our childhoods. They make those in impulses up to "F" nowadays. The black powder "E" was new when I got into rockets when I was little. The second type is ammonium perchlorate compressed propellant or APCP. This is actual solid rocket fuel. The same stuff they put in military missiles and solid rocket boosters. As a mater of fact, the main company that produces APCP hobby motors is a subsidiary of a military rocket company.

Again, the FAA is involved with any launch that involves rockets more than 3.3 pounds. They issue a Notice To Airmen, which effectively shuts down your airspace up to the agreed upon launch ceiling. Small planes can choose to ignore this. That is the reason prior to every launch one is supposed to check the sky for aircraft in the launch airspace.

The rocket with the onboard GoPro was 55 pounds. I currently have a Level 2 NAR cert. This allows me to purchase up to and including "L" motors. Usually rocketry clubs will get together and fill out the requisite paperwork. Once the airspace is shut down, anyone who is attending the launch is covered by the waiver.

For everyone who has made it this far, I got several parts in today! 



Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr


----------



## Robo_Pi

Thanks for the rocketry info.   Sorry for the derail. 

Parts for the lathe are looking good.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Don’t be. I enjoy talking about rocketry.


----------



## Robo_Pi

Well, I thank you for the journey back to my childhood days.   Those were fun days.  I was into astronomy and dreamed about going to Mars.   I built my own Newtonian style telescope.  It had a 10" mirror and you had to climb a small step ladder to look in the eyepiece.   I designed it specifically for looking at the planets.

Knowing what I know today, I would not want to go to Mars.    At least not with our current technology.  We might be able to get there, but it wouldn't be the most comfortable trip.  It's easy to look in a telescope and think, "Hey that planet is right over there. Not all that far".   But that's an extreme delusion.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

If you’re interested, contact these guys: http://www.psc473.org/  I’m sure they’d love to have more visitors at their launch. They could probably tell you which launches are better.


----------



## Robo_Pi

I already have too many hobbies.  I have a tendency to get interested in everything.  When I saw the Rocketry forum I was tempted join. and then a voice came into my head saying, "Don't you dare start another hobby!"  

I've been watching Tucker Gott, a YouTuber dedicated to paramotoring.  And I would love to get a paramotor and fly around the sky sitting in a chair.  It's got to be the coolest hobby ever.   Fortunately the hobby is a bit pricey and that's about the only thing keeping me from getting into it.  Probably a good thing actually.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

New 3d printed change gears:



Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr


----------



## markba633csi

I had the Big Bertha rocket but never could find a safe place to launch it. Always wanted the little camera 
Making good progress on the lathe.  Changing the spindle bushings can be tricky- be careful there, the headstock clamps have been known to break off when overtightened
Mark


----------



## wa5cab

On the subject of breaking off the upper bearing area on the headstock of a 101.07301, it does not appear that, unlike the shim packs in the babbit bearing headstocks, the designer ever intended that the clamping screws be used for any attempt at squeezing the bushings enough to significantly affect the running clearance.  They should only be tightened enough to prevent the bushings from spinning.  If, after proper tightening with a screwdriver and no cheater pipe for twisting it, the running clearance is excessive, your only option is a new spindle.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

I am replacing the bearings because I’m redoing the whole machine. The bearings that were in it had very little play. But I will keep that in mind when I am tightening the caps.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

I have STL files for all the change gears if anyone in interested.


----------



## WCraig

TonimusMaximus said:


> I have STL files for all the change gears if anyone in interested.


Can you just post them on Thingiverse?

Craig


----------



## TonimusMaximus

WCraig said:


> Can you just post them on Thingiverse?
> 
> Craig


Never occurred to me. Done. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3520304


----------



## TonimusMaximus

If anyone wants a set of the gears, let me know and I’ll get you in contact with the guy who did mine. He did them for $20 a set. I’m not affiliated with him, and they’re not perfect, but for $20 they are great.


----------



## WCraig

TonimusMaximus said:


> they’re not perfect, but


What is 'not perfect' about them?  Fit to the shaft?  Mesh?

I'm still curious about the printing details.  Can you ask the guy what material they were printed with?  PLA?  Also, what percentage infill and how many shells?  I only know a little about 3D printing but I would guess that extra shells would seriously strengthen the teeth and keyway.  

Craig


----------



## TonimusMaximus

There’s a slight variation in tooth angle of the printed result. Not part of the file, but the printer. A few teeth, instead of being parallel to the axis, are maybe 1° or two off. Everything else is good. Shaft is a couple thou undersized, but I was able to open it up by hand with a 1/2” twist drill bit. It was printed I. PLA with 20% fill for red and 50% in blue.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

I got a "new" right hand leg to replace the broken one I had. Picking up a bucket of evaporust tomorrow. Then I just have to wait for Clausing to send my bearings.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Update: All the small parts have been through a big bucket of EvapoRust. The large parts are sitting in 30 gallons of bad 7-11 diesel. (Best friend almost destroyed his motor with a batch of diesel from a 7-11 that had a high water content and gasoline in it...)

I bought a treadmill for $10 and gutted it. I have a working motor, controller and dashboard. I found plans for a PWM controller based on 555 timers that I am going to build. Here's what gave me the idea to make the PWM controller: http://el34world.com/Misc/Cnc/TreadmillMotor1.htm 

This is the pcb layout i came up with. I should fit nicely on the prototyping boards I have. For those following along at home, somewhere on either side of R2 will be a momentary NC switch. TP1 is the negative connection, TP2 is positive, and the floating end of R7 is the PWM signal out.



Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Got a shipping notice from Clausing! I need to break out the o-scope and check my PWM circuit. Built it on a breadboard this morning and got nothing out of it. Time to break out the instrumentation.


----------



## bama7

TonimusMaximus said:


> New 3d printed change gears:
> 
> 
> 
> Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr


Could you please send me info on how to purchase a set of these gears? I have not been on the site in a long while, but just got a project lathe Wednesday. I could not figure out how to message you. My email is bama7and9@comcast.net. Any info would be appreciated.


----------



## T Bredehoft

Just a suggestion, print up some new banjos, ditto common doubled gears. Have banjos ready for often used gearings.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

I had to look it up, as my automotive background makes banjo mean something different to me. Never even occurred to me to make a new banjo bracket. Good idea for when I eventually get my own printer. I'll have to go through many iterations before it is right, but that'd be a good part to draw up.


----------



## wa5cab

It might be good to learn that they are (or aren't) but I would have to see one after 5 or 10 years operation to be convinced that currently available consumer grade materials are stiff enough to print a usable banjo out of.

And incidentally, the "official" title most used by Atlas for the banjos is "Change Gear Bracket".


----------



## bama7

I ordered a set of Change Gears yesterday. Gray was the color of material he had loaded, so I get gray ones, which makes me happy.


----------



## phubbman

Nice project.  I rebuilt one of those a short while ago.  It's a very serviceable little lathe.  I'm learning a lot on mine.

I mentioned this on another thread, but if you need a chuck, Taig Tools has 1"x 8tpi scroll chuck's on clearance.  It's the standard Taig chuck, but they ran a custom batch with this threading and got stuck with them.  Now they're on clearance a $20 each.  They come 3 jaw or 4 jaw, 3-1/4" diameter. It's a good size for this lathe.  I have one of each - very good quality with replaceable aluminum soft jaws (also available from Taig should you need more).  If you're interested, check their website.  It's a small family run US company.  I have no affiliation, just a satisfied customer who has one of their manual bench top mills and various tooling bits and pieces.

I've always wondered how well the 3d printed change gears work.  The originals were Zamak (zinc, aluminum, cadmium alloy, if i recall) - not as strong as steel, but seem to work just fine on a small lathe like this.  The plastic is soft too, but then again, it's only a 6" lathe.  The forces aren't that great.

Yep - what others have said about over tightening the headstock bushing clamp screws.  My lathe came with a broken headstock due to cranking it down too much.  Luckily, i found a replacement headstock casting for little money and got it up and running quickly and easily.  Once the casting breaks here, there's not much you can do to fix it.  Replacement is the best practical option. 

The one other thing you might want to keep your eyes open for would be a spare set of half nuts for the lead screw assembly.  They're often available on ebay, but often are very worn.  Look for ones that are new or still have crisp, non rounded threading. 

This is my first lathe, and i'm using it to learn on and support my other hobbies making and fixing things.  Depending on the work you'll be doing with it, you might want to make some tooling or accessories of your own.  The first thing i made was a carriage stop with a 2" travel dial indicator on it.  I also got a set of ER25 collets and an MT2 collet chuck for the spindle.  I did make up a quick drawbar for that chuck, but will soon make an ER25 chuck that threads onto the spindle so that longer pieces can extend through the hollow spindle.  The MT2 taper chuck won't allow that.  I also picked up an OXA sized quick change tool post to replace the rocker/lantern stock tool post.  This machine is not really designed around using carbide tooling, but there's plenty of HSS tooling that fits the qctp tool holders.  Also, the HSS tooling is cheaper, and i can sharpen it with my standard bench grinder - no special sharpening equipment needed.

I also think i'll make larger cross feed dials that are easier to read.  The stock ones are very small, and the markings on mine are difficult to read.  And, i'll very likely make a mount so that i can attach my rotary tool to my compound and use it like a tool post grinder.  I have a little Proxxon model with a 20mm ring machined on the casting near the spindle.  This could work really well.  I've seen others set up a mount for a Dremel flex shaft that would work the same way. 

You might want a chip tray once you start using the lathe.  Cafeteria trays work well if you get one the right size.  I picked up a tray at IKEA for a few bucks that works perfectly. 

Have fun with you project.  Keep us up to speed with your progress.

paulh


----------



## WCraig

phubbman said:


> Taig Tools has 1"x 8tpi scroll chuck's on clearance. It's the standard Taig chuck, but they ran a custom batch with this threading and got stuck with them. Now they're on clearance a $20 each. They come 3 jaw or 4 jaw, 3-1/4" diameter. It's a good size for this lathe. I have one of each - very good quality with replaceable aluminum soft jaws (also available from Taig should you need more).


Too bad those are 1-8 threaded.  If they were 1-10 to fit my Atlas 618, ...

Craig


----------



## TonimusMaximus

phubbman said:


> I mentioned this on another thread, but if you need a chuck, Taig Tools has 1"x 8tpi scroll chuck's on clearance.  It's the standard Taig chuck, but they ran a custom batch with this threading and got stuck with them.  Now they're on clearance a $20 each.  They come 3 jaw or 4 jaw, 3-1/4" diameter. It's a good size for this lathe.  I have one of each - very good quality with replaceable aluminum soft jaws (also available from Taig should you need more).  If you're interested, check their website.  It's a small family run US company.  I have no affiliation, just a satisfied customer who has one of their manual bench top mills and various tooling bits and pieces.
> paulh



Holy smokes! I live like 15 miles from them! I'm definitely going to have to go down there and pick those up. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## wa5cab

At that price, I would buy several of each.  The only down side according to PaulH is that the 4-jaw is a scroll type instead of an independent type.  Sooner or later, you are going to need one of the latter type.


----------



## phubbman

Yep, the 4 jaw is a scroll chuck.  But, one benefit of the aluminum soft jaws is that it's incredibly easy to grind the jaws to center them when you need that level of precision, or to custom modify the jaws for the task at hand.

Not that it replaces a 4 jaw independent jaw chuck, but you can still do quite a bit.  At least get started making chips and curls.

paulh


----------



## wa5cab

Yes, for example if you need to machine a piece of square bar, an independent jaw 4- jaw will take a lot of extra time to set up .


----------



## rwm

That's going to be a nice little machine! But you are going to need a bigger one to make larger rockets! I have been to several high powered rocket launches and enjoyed them very much. If any readers have interest, I highly recommend going to one. There is one next weekend here in Nascarolina.
Robert


----------



## markba633csi

I would use the toughest materials you have for printing the two tumbler gears- lot of forces acting on those, fastest wearing zamak gear on the 6"
and unfortunately the hardest to find used in good condition
M


----------



## pgmrdan

Regarding the Taig chucks, I got one of each delivered today.  They fit my Craftsman 1" x 8 tpi spindle perfectly.  The part numbers are 1050 ATLA and 1060 ATLA.


----------



## rwm

Where can I buy one???
R


----------



## phubbman

rwm said:


> Where can I buy one???
> R


Go to Taig Tools website.  Look under "accessories" (left hand menu option).
The 3 jaw chuck is item number 1050 ATLA.  The 4 jaw chuck is 1060 ATLA.
Their contact info is at the top right corner of their home page.








						TAIG Tools | Arizona Lathes and Milling Machines | Call (480) 895-6978
					

TAIG Tools manufactures precision desktop lathes and milling machines. Call (480) 895-6978 to learn about micro mills and micro lathes.




					www.taigtools.com
				



They don't have an on-line commerce site.  Call them up - super friendly people with quick response time.  They'll take your credit card over the phone, or you can mail in a check.
I believe domestic shipping is $10.


----------



## jwmay

Mrpete222 has a video of testing a printed gear on an Atlas 12' lathe.  Just in case you're not interested in watching it, the end result, as I remember was that the spindle stalled before he was able to break it.  I had some gears printed for my 10" Atlas, but am not done putting it back together to try them out.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Updated pics:



Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr



Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr



Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr



Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr



Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr


----------



## TonimusMaximus

If anyone out there can help, I really need the compound slide for this guy.


----------



## mattthemuppet2

the OP on this thread might be able to help:








						618 sight unseen.
					

Hey guys and gals.  First post as I’m new to the forum I recently bought an atlas 618 sight unseen.  I’ve had a 618 before so I knew about what I was getting into  For $225 I got a functioning lathe on atlas 10” leg castings. An extra bed   And an extra carriage  What I did not know until my...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr



Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr

The parts I have are done!


----------



## mattthemuppet2

looking good! To get you up and running without a compound, you could always mount an appropriately sized  block with hole in the bottom to fit over the post on the cross slide. Something i've thought of doing to up the rigidity when i don't need to do angles


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Yeah, I've been thinking I'm going to do that until I get the compound sorted.


----------



## WCraig

This toolholder came with my Atlas 618.  




The compound is removed before mounting this.  The set screws at the bottom push on angled brass pins that engage the tapered boss on the cross-slide.  Crude but it does increase rigidity.  I now keep my parting tool in this holder and it parts off steel without chatter.  Much better than if I hold a parting tool in the QCTP on top of the compound.

Craig


----------



## phubbman

The compounds do pop up on the bay fairly regularly.  Though most sellers there seem to think these lathes are made of gold.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

I'm likely going to do something similar to the setup Craig got. I'll keep an eye on eBay for someone who doesn't think the compound is worth more than a halfway decent QCTP setup.


----------



## wa5cab

Bear in mind that although the turret tool post mounted directly to the cross slide is fine for turning, it won't cut decent threads.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Almost done. I got a pair of Taig 3" chucks, and I'll have a compound on the way shortly. I plan on getting a Shars 0XA QCTP set, then it is on to acquire tooling. I still need to make up my mind on which chuck to get when I want to push the limits and turn larger diameter stuff.


----------



## Janderso

Looking great!
How do you change the belt?
I have one of those.
I'll take some pics.


----------



## RobertB

Janderso said:


> How do you change the belt?



You have to remove the spindle. 
You can use a link belt to avoid that, but I've only replaced my belt once in 25 years so that isn't that big of a deal.
It's also a good opportunity to do a thorough cleaning and lubing.


----------



## Janderso

I was afraid of that.
Good time to get to know this little fellow.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

I plan on using a twist link belt for the final drive. I expect that since I'm doing this for the first time, there's going to be a few iterations I have to go through.


----------



## RobertB

Janderso said:


> I was afraid of that.



It's actually pretty easy. The only difficult part is getting the bull gear woodruff key out. If it hasn't been removed in 50 years it can be stubborn and you have a very narrow space to work in to remove it. There is a good tutorial here: https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/6-atlas-spindle-removal-bearing-replacement.6310/

(There is a minor error in the tutorial where he says the screw above the lock pin is for oil. This screw actually retains the lock pin detent ball and spring, but otherwise is a very good tutorial.)


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Wooo! I have a complete compound on the way, courtesy of a very generous price from RobertB.


----------



## wa5cab

There is another error in the first sentence of the instructions, but as you have a sleeve bearing lathe, it doesn't actually affect you.  But just for the record, the mistaken belief that the early Atlas 618's had sleeve bearings is just an old wive's tale.  There is no truth to it, as the Atlas 618 used the same Timken bearings from the first to the last one made.  Some people just confused the Craftsman 101.07301 with the Atlas 618 because a lot of the parts in both lathes are the same.


----------



## mattthemuppet2

TonimusMaximus said:


> Wooo! I have a complete compound on the way, courtesy of a very generous price from RobertB.



nice! glad that worked out well.

As for the link belt, personally I would avoid it and use a decent 3/8" v-belt. Yes, it's a pain to remove the spindle, back gear and countershaft to change the belt, but I was not impressed by a link belt on my 618. In fact I don't have link belts on any of my machines anymore, though they are handy for sizing belts at least. Main issue I had was poor grip, so the belt would slip way too easily, especially in the lowest ratio and even if I tensioned the beejeesus out of it. It also wore the countershaft pulley quite badly, possibly in part to excess tension. Both problems I put down to the minimal amount of contact the link belt makes with the pulleys as it doesn't sit far into the V. I went to the extreme of remaking the spindle and countershaft pulleys to use a poly-V belt, which is superior to a standard V belt, but that was one of the best things I did with that lathe. Admittedly, I should have got off my butt and just replaced the link belt, but I figured it would "incentivise" me to finish the mod. Depending on your time frame that worked admirably (completed in less than 5 years) or terribly (completed in less than 5 years)


----------



## Janderso

I pulled the old girl out of the cabinet.
There is something going on with the spindle puller sun gear.
This seems pretty complicated. 
Any experts in the Sacramento area?
Pics if you care.


----------



## RobertB

That is a different model altogether, so the previous tutorial is not applicable. That is a Craftsman "80" made by Double A company rather than the Atlas made models. Your model has the planetary or epicyclic back gear assembly.

You can find most available info on yours here: http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page5.html


----------



## Janderso

RobertB,
Thank you for the link. I know nothing about this little lathe. The planetary gears are interesting.
I need to spend some time with this machine, I just don't have any thing called time right now.
Maybe in a few years. It's in good shape.
Thanks again, I really appreciate it.


----------



## wa5cab

*Janderso,*

You will find the factory manual (such as it is) on the 109.21270 in Downloads.  It's in the AA Manuals folder, not the Atlas one.  You will also find some drawings done 20 odd years ago by Lionel Weightman.


----------



## Nogoingback

mattthemuppet2 said:


> looking good! To get you up and running without a compound, you could always mount an appropriately sized  block with hole in the bottom to fit over the post on the cross slide. Something i've thought of doing to up the rigidity when i don't need to do angles




+1 on a solid plinth.  Small Atlas machines would benefit from the improved rigidity and it would get you going until you can find
a compound.  Unless you have a job that needs the compound, you're better off with a solid mount.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Nogoingback said:


> +1 on a solid plinth.  Small Atlas machines would benefit from the improved rigidity and it would get you going until you can find
> a compound.  Unless you have a job that needs the compound, you're better off with a solid mount.



I have the lower swivel already and the compound I have on the way (should be delivered today) has a lower swivel with it. As such, I'm going to take the lower swivel that I have and drill/tap the top for the qctp. The post will be directly mounted to the swivel and changing it out for the compound will essentially be tool-less.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Made a cleaner PWM control board that actually worked this time. I’m glad I’ve got a tiny oscilloscope. The second 555 timer I put in the circuit was DOA, and I couldn’t figure out why I wasn’t getting the output I expected. Checked with the ‘scope and I had the expected output from the first chip. Replaced the second with another and I got my signal. The hardest time I had was adjusting the pwm timing resistors. Each MC-2100 board is a little different and each set of cheap ceramic caps are different. Took me about an hour to fine tune the value of the timing resistor. Works now, though. 




Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr



Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Compound on! Now to build the table and attach the drive system. And yes, since the picture I have replaced the missing oiler. 




Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr



Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr


----------



## mattthemuppet2

cool beans! Very neat work on the PWM generator for running the MC2100, looking forward to the finish product. The sooner you can get that onto a table the better as it wouldn't take much to tip that over or knock it off the barrel.


----------



## RobertB

Nice looking compound you got there 

Is that an old Nova I spy in the top right corner of the second pic?


----------



## WCraig

That's a cool 3-jaw chuck.  Did you buy that somewhere?

Craig


----------



## TonimusMaximus

That is my best friend’s ‘63 Nova. Lots of hours in that car.

The chuck is from Taig Tools. Got a 3 jaw and 4 jaw from them per phubbman’s recommendation. 1x8 tpi.




Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr


----------



## Wierd Harold

I just had a pair of those and some extra jaws delivered today. REALLY nice chucks and even better for the money.
They were packed unbelievably well. Chuck in a plastic bag (well oiled) ,in a paper bag, in a plastic bag , wrapped in newspaper, in a box and in a box.
HWF


----------



## TonimusMaximus

After I get to making chips, I plan to make a proper pin spanner for the chuck and then make some harder jaws. I'll make some two step jaws out of steel so I can grab larger diameter stock.


----------



## wa5cab

FWiW, all solid jaw 3-Jaw chucks should come with two sets of jaws.  The so-called outside set is for holding parts larger than about half the diameter of the chuck.  Unfortunately, the outside set often gets lost, especially if the seller of a used chuck isn't the original owner.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

wa5cab, The Taig ones, at least the ones that are 1"x8tpi, are different. They only come with a single set of aluminum jaws. I got the directly from the manufacturer in person. https://taigtools.com/product/3-jaw-3-1-4-dia-self-centering-scroll-chuck-3/


----------



## RobertB

The Taig, Sherline, and Unimat chucks are all similar. Even with the stepped steel jaws, their 3 jaw chucks have reversible jaws rather than separate internal and external sets.


----------



## wa5cab

Then I wouldn't buy one of the Taigs.


----------



## wa5cab

Hmmm.  Is there a photo around that shows the back side of one of their jaws?  There was once a US made 3-Jaw chuck brand that came with only three reversible jaws.  I don't recall the name nor where I saw it.  But the side of the jaw teeth that contacts the threads in the scroll only had single line contact with the scroll when gripping the ID of a work piece.  So they wore out pretty quickly.  I can't recall the maker's name nor where the photo of the back side of the jaws might be.  But at least the jaws and scroll were made of hardened steel.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr


----------



## TonimusMaximus

__





						Taig Lathe 3 jaw Chuck Disassembly
					





					www.cartertools.com


----------



## RobertB

wa5cab said:


> Hmmm.  Is there a photo around that shows the back side of one of their jaws?



No photo, but here are some drawings


			http://www.thecooltool.com/uploads/media/1041_e.pdf
		


unlike most chuck teeth that are shaped like this (( (( (( ((
the reversible jaws teeth are like this  () () () ()
so the tooth contact profile is the same with the scroll no matter which direction they are inserted.

Note that they really are properly designed for external holding only.  If used internally you only have the convex contacts against each other. It works, but not a good design


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Table and start of control box: 



Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr


----------



## TonimusMaximus

The top is 3/4” maple ply.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Need to figure out why the ammeter/voltmeter doesn’t work, and probably need a new tach as I get a lot of odd readings. Need tooling too, but it runs!



Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr


----------



## RobertB

Are you using adjustable pitch pulleys on the motor and countershaft? (wondering why the belts are so deep in the pulleys)


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Yes, they are adjustable. Slight speed reduction from the motor to the lathe, also negates the need for a tensioner of some sort.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Making chips! Turned down the 7/8” turret tool post bolt to be threaded 3/8” to have more meat to bolt to the spare cross slide.


----------



## phubbman

wa5cab said:


> Hmmm.  Is there a photo around that shows the back side of one of their jaws?  There was once a US made 3-Jaw chuck brand that came with only three reversible jaws.  I don't recall the name nor where I saw it.  But the side of the jaw teeth that contacts the threads in the scroll only had single line contact with the scroll when gripping the ID of a work piece.  So they wore out pretty quickly.  I can't recall the maker's name nor where the photo of the back side of the jaws might be.  But at least the jaws and scroll were made of hardened steel.



The jaws on these Taig chucks are two piece.  The threaded part that engages the scroll is steel.  The soft aluminum jaws bolt to the threaded steel base.  Switching jaws from outer to inner grip can be done by unbolting the soft jaw and flipping it around, then rebolting it to the steel base.  If you need close accuracy you can easily touch up the jaws before you set your work piece.  They are well made chucks, but, like these 6x18 C-man / Atlas lathes, they work best within their limits.

And for $20 each, they affordably get you up and running with a good level of accuracy.


----------



## makeparts

TonimusMaximus said:


> I have STL files for all the change gears if anyone in interested.


I'd love the files
I just started tearing down a 101.07301 yesterday...


----------



## makeparts

TonimusMaximus said:


> Never occurred to me. Done. link


oh sorry did not click on next page before I asked for the files


----------



## wa5cab

phubbman said:


> The jaws on these Taig chucks are two piece.  The threaded part that engages the scroll is steel.  The soft aluminum jaws bolt to the threaded steel base.  Switching jaws from outer to inner grip can be done by unbolting the soft jaw and flipping it around, then rebolting it to the steel base.  If you need close accuracy you can easily touch up the jaws before you set your work piece.  They are well made chucks, but, like these 6x18 C-man / Atlas lathes, they work best within their limits.
> 
> And for $20 each, they affordably get you up and running with a good level of accuracy.


3-Jaw chucks with 2-piece jaws normally come with a set of three hardened and ground steel removable jaws match-marked (numbered) to show which of the three master jaws they are matched up to.  There are standards for the dimensions of the master jaws so that you can buy both replacement hard jaws as well as soft (usually aluminum) jaws and know that they will fit the master jaws.  One thing that you do NOT want to do is to use soft jaws for routine turning operations.  They will go out of tolerance fairly quickly and are easily damaged.  So before buying any chuck that comes with soft jaws already installed, make sure that the vendor offers hard jaws to fit, buy a set with the chuck, and as soon as they arrive, install the hard jaws and use them unless you have a specific need for soft jaws.


----------



## Rhino169

TonimusMaximus said:


> Never occurred to me. Done. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3520304


Thanks for this! I just got a 6” Atlas TH42 lathe and am missing about half of the gears. I have a 3d printer and now can print the missing gears as needed! Great job on your rebuild by the way!


----------



## wa5cab

Sounds good.  Except that the TH42 is a 10" swing lathe, not a 6" (standard US practice).


----------



## Rhino169

wa5cab said:


> Sounds good.  Except that the TH42 is a 10" swing lathe, not a 6" (standard US practice).



Ok, now you are blowing my mind, lol!

I just bought this lathe advertised as a 6” Atlas TH42 and it has the TH42 stamped label on it and you are saying it actually is a 10”? How can I measure or maybe look at a serial number or other indicator to verify this on my lathe?

I want to make sure before I buy any missing parts or accessories.


----------



## wa5cab

Do you have a photo of the machine?  Or if you have the machine in front of you, put a dead center in the spindle and measure the distance from the point of the center to the rear edge of the top of the front way.  If about 5" it's a 10".  If about 3" it's a 6".  And if about 6" it's a 12".


----------



## Rhino169

wa5cab said:


> Do you have a photo of the machine?  Or if you have the machine in front of you, put a dead center in the spindle and measure the distance from the point of the center to the rear edge of the top of the front way.  If about 5" it's a 10".  If about 3" it's a 6".  And if about 6" it's a 12".




I will have to measure when I get home from work. Don’t know if you can tell from the photo.


----------



## DavidR8

Rhino169 said:


> View attachment 307681
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will have to measure when I get home from work. Don’t know if you can tell from the photo.



I’m no expert but that is not a six in. lathe. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rhino169

Well I’ll be dipped! I went to buy a 6” lathe and ended up with a 10” lathe. lol So I measured from the center down to the top of the ways as instructed above and it was 10”! Is there a way to tell age by the serial number. This one is 56446?


----------



## DavidR8

You did well!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wa5cab

Yes, that is 10F.  You can tell that it's a 10" by the lead screw FWD-OFF-REV gearbox on the front (and by some other clues).  And that it is an F-Series by the legs and the cross feed knob.  Also, inspection of the front spindle bearing bearing cap reveals that it has Timken bearings.  And it has a Horizontal countershaft.  So the first part of the model number is TH.  However, guessing the bed length is iffy.  Choices are 36", 42", 48" and 54:.  Which correspond to distance between centers of 18", 24", 30" and 36".

One word of caution.  Never leave it sitting motor off with the half nut lever down (engaged).  If the lead screw gear box is not in the OFF position, if you start the motor the carriage will surprise you by starting to move.  Depending upon your reflexes, how much attention you are paying, and where the carriage is, you could have a crash.  Which will definitely spoil your day.

All of the records having been lost years ago, the standard way of dating an Atlas 10" or a Craftsman early model 12" with Timken bearings is to quote the dates engraved on the bearing cups and/or cones.  If you ever have occasion ti pull the spindle.  We think that these dates were put on by Timken and Atlas obviously did not practice FIFO (First In First Out Inventory management) so there are numerous examples of later serial numbers having earlier dates and the left and right bearings having different dates so it is only good for about +/- a year.  But a rough estimate from your serial number is late 1944 or early 1945.  Also, the dating appears to have stopped around late 1952.  And the 6" and Mills and Shapers never have dates.  Neither do any babbit bearing lathes.


----------



## Pkniff

TonimusMaximus said:


> New 3d printed change gears:
> 
> 
> 
> Untitled by bigangryscot, on Flickr





TonimusMaximus said:


> I have STL files for all the change gears if anyone in interested.


How do the printed change gears hold up ? Will these work on a Atlas TH42 lathe? If so I would like to down load files.


----------



## wrat

Pkniff said:


> How do the printed change gears hold up ? Will these work on a Atlas TH42 lathe? If so I would like to down load files.


I really don't think you wanna use printed gears.  They'll hold up just as well as any other stratified, non-structural, thermoplastic will hold up, eh?

But, they would make dandy patterns for casting your own gears out of any of several pot metal combinations.  And those would hold up much better.


----------



## Cadillac STS

Pkniff said:


> How do the printed change gears hold up ? Will these work on a Atlas TH42 lathe? If so I would like to down load files.


They would hold up fine.  Download the files and print them out.  Lot of people use them without problems.


----------



## Cadillac STS

Here is the Tubalcain/Mr Pete 222 on the gears printed from thingaverse and tested:






He was not able to damage them on a 12 inch lathe.  The 6 is much lighter.  Evidence of testing says they are fine.


----------



## jwmay

Another vote for printed gears here.  I've only got one in my setup, but it was made with pla, and it works as well as any.  "They" say it'll break down eventually. At which point it won't work, and I'll print another for pennies.

I hope someday I can get stl files for all the gears in a qcgb, and I'll be off to the races.


----------

