# Help Me Decide...lathe...g0602, G9972z, Or G0752??



## wachuko

Like the title says... need help deciding between those lathes... 

G0602, G9972Z, or G0752??

This is just in case I need to do something for my cars or motorcycle... use as a hobby and to learn the ropes... 

No rush as I do not have a specific project that I need one for (like what happened when I got the mill)... so just doing my homework.

Thank you!


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## bjornsh67

Hi,

I had the G9972Z that I have now replaced with some other lathes.

The benefit of going up from G9972Z from the G0752 is minimal and if you look at the weight comparison they are quite similar. The benefit with the G0752 is the variable speed that is nice to have. The belt drive of the G9972Z is not bad and by changing belt you to reduce speed you get the the extra torque you need when cutting on a larger diameter. 

Both lack the automatic cross feed. That might be something to consider. But if you plan to run your lathe for repair work and such it should be fine. The next step up looking at Grizzly site is the G4003 or G4003G.  You probably want to look around before you decide on such a step up. PM machines come to my mind.

Hope this information was useful.

Regards
Bjorn


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## wachuko

Bjorn,

Thank you.  When you say PM... something like the PM 1127VF LB ?


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## 6mmBR

I have a G0752, and like yourself, am new to lathes. I did the research like you're doing now. I thought about the 602 but went with the 752 because of the variable speed. Neither of them will do left handed threads without modifying them, and neither has quick change gears. I haven't done any threading yet, so it hasn't mattered to me. I figure I can do any threading needed with dies until I figure out the gearing. 

It's been good so far, but I've been getting familiar with it learning the ropes. What others have been doing for years, is all new to me. But it's been fun learning it all. I'm not familiar with the other lathe you mention. 

The 602/752 have a pretty large following, and there are all sorts of mods  you can make if you pick one of those two.


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## bjornsh67

wachuko said:


> Bjorn,
> 
> Thank you.  When you say PM... something like the PM 1127VF LB ?



I meant the pm1236 from Precision Matthews. But since Grizzly has g4003 on sale the price is the same. Pm is Usd 3348 including stand and freight, Grizzly is usd 3347 including stand and freight. 

I did consider the pm1236 in the past but ended up with an old torshalla. I have an old cva too. Seems like pm is doing a fairly good job checking out the machine before it is shipped to buyer.

The pm1127 is not that big step up from g9972 but you get a lot more fetures including variable speed. But the price is comparable to pm1236/g4003. 

G9972z was in my experience a good lathe and capable. The torque difference you might get using g0704 with varible speed might ot matter. Other users might want to comment?


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## tmarks11

wachuko said:


> When you say PM... something like the PM 1127VF LB ?


Just a note... there are a lot of happy PM1127VFLB owners... BUT... by the time you spend that much money, you should instead just buy a 12x36 lathe (like the Grizzly 4002 or 4003).  Assuming you have room for one, of course.

Why? 12x36 gets you a Norton QCGB (allows all inches threads without gear changes, it uses those levers instead of rotary dial switches) and a cam-lock chuck (really nice feature). All the chinese lathes smaller than 12" swing have QCGB of extremely limited value... almost any threading requires manually swapping "change gears".

Given the list of machines you posted originally, I would go for the G0752.  The VFD in it gives you a lower speed (100 rpm), which is vital for threading, and it has a built-in tachometer. Before Grizzly came out with that version, a very common mod for G0602 owners was installing a VFD in their machine.  The price difference between the two means you are better off just buying the G0752... you can't do the conversion yourself for the difference in price.

Also take a look at what Machine Tools Online (Precision Matthews) is offering (PM1022V).  Matt essentially sells the G0752... except with powered cross feed (nice!)... for  $60 more (when you looking at the difference in freight charges).  Matt has a great reputation on this forum, and has been in business for a decade.

http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1030.html


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## Eddyde

In the sub $2k range, I would go for the PM1022 or 1030, based on features (the power cross feed is nice to have) and PM's reputation. However, you mention working on cars and motorcycles, I think a bigger lathe might be more useful for that type of work, perhaps one with a gap bed so you could turn brake rotors etc...


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## wachuko

Eddyde said:


> In the sub $2k range, I would go for the PM1022 or 1030, based on features (the power cross feed is nice to have) and PM's reputation. However, you mention working on cars and motorcycles, I think a bigger lathe might be more useful for that type of work, perhaps one with a gap bed so you could turn brake rotors etc...



Did not know what a gap bed was... Darn it... So much for trying to stay below 2k... 

Thank you for the comments.  Please keep them coming.

Oh and to any of the moderators.  I was not sure if this was the right place for this thread.  Feel free to move it if that is not the case.  Since we are talking about different brands of lathes and not just Grizzly.


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## wrmiller

I was fine with a smaller lathe, making parts for my race bikes and whatever else came along. Until one time when I desperately needed a rear axle bolt for the GSXer. Threaded. After missing the race and cussing a blue cloud I ended up with my first 12x36 gap bed that had a quick change gear box. It was the cheapest import I could find, but I was able to make it work.

I really do like the smaller bench lathes for some things, but a slightly larger lathe (assuming you have the space and money)  gives you a bit more flexibility when working on bikes and cars. Just my experience. 

Sorry, to answer your original question: I would stick with the 972 or 752. The 972 is basically a stretch version of the old 9x19 that has a ton of users and mods you can do to tweak it. The 752 has BLDC variable speed (you will get used to that very quickly) and a decent secondary transmission that will give you a number of feeds/threads for a given gear set. Set it up for what you use the most and leave it alone. Just my $0.02


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## wachuko

wrmiller19 said:


> I was fine with a smaller lathe, making parts for my race bikes and whatever else came along. Until one time when I desperately needed a rear axle bolt for the GSXer. Threaded. After missing the race and cussing a blue cloud I ended up with my first 12x36 gap bed that had a quick change gear box. It was the cheapest import I could find, but I was able to make it work.
> 
> I really do like the smaller bench lathes for some things, but a slightly larger lathe (assuming you have the space and money)  gives you a bit more flexibility when working on bikes and cars. Just my experience.



I really appreciate the feedback.  I would like to buy just one lathe... so if I have to wait a year to get a 12x36 with gap bed... then I rather wait.  I just want the most affordable/small lathe that would meet my needs... Do not want an overkill of a lathe with capabilities that I will never tap into... 

This last project... I got the mill to modify a caliper and a spacer.  It was to be able to fit a wheel not meant for this bike.  I would have preferred to modify the hub on the wheel and kept all the stock spacers and caliper location... Now I see that what I would have needed for that was a lathe with a gap bed.

I will now look for an "affordable" 12x36" gap bed lathe...

I will have to make the space for anything that I get.  Looks like I need a minimum of 5'6" of space for it... that means eliminating the shelves/racks next to the mill... but that is fine.  And we are talking about something that weights over 1,000 lbs. 

So, if from Grizzly, that would be:  G4003 (12x36), G4002 (12x24) and we are talking about US$3,400.00 with stand and delivery.


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## wrmiller

Of those two, I would suggest the 12x36. It may not be often you will need to turn something that long, but the extra bed length allows you to get the tailstock out of your way when you need to work on the end of a medium length piece held in a steady rest. Don't ask how I figured that out...


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## tmarks11

wachuko said:


> So, if from Grizzly, that would be:  G4003 (12x36), G4002 (12x24) and we are talking about US$3,400.00 with stand and delivery.


Just so you know, that stand is largely regarded as a POS, as it is lightweight sheet metal.

And here is where the "only $$$ more will get you s0 much more" game starts... and we all have played it (and won or lost depending upon your perspective or your wife's perspective).  Rather than $3479 delivered (4003+stand), you can get the G4003G for $3550 delivered, which has a 1/4" plate steel stand, as well as some other nice features.

Another option would be the PM1236, which is $3348 delivered.

Don't worry about crossing brands on this forum; every single discussion on this topic generally includes at least PM and Grizzly in the discussion.


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## wachuko

Okay...so it is between these two then

G4003G - US$3,550.00 delivered




Or

PM1236 with Prefered Package - US$3,648.00 delivered




Now to compare before deciding.

Thanks again!


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## coolidge

I own a G4003G and would say you are getting quite a few more features with the PM1236. Plus the PM gearbox is the next step up from the G4003G's. Feed clutch. 5 tool holders vs 2. Coolant system. Foot brake.

The Grizzly has a slightly larger spindle bore, 1/16 inch larger, not really a factor. It has a D1-5 cam lock which is substantially more beefy than the PM D1-4. But here's the thing. I would say the D1-5 is oversized for the rest of the lathe which is to say you have a spindle/cam lock capable of hogging D1-5 cuts but the rest of the lathe probably isn't up to the task. Plus D1-5 chucks cost more.


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## wrmiller

Not sure what you mean by a "step up" coolidge. The Norton gearbox on the 4003G will do all imperial feeds and threads with no gear changes. The 1236 requires several to cover the more common threads.

Or did I interpret that wrong?


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## coolidge

Plus the PM is not butt ugly green!


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## wachuko

It will be the PM1236 if the boss agrees or the PM 1030 if I get too much s* from her... 3.7k vs 2k

Enjoy the rest of the weekend!!


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## coolidge

wrmiller19 said:


> Not sure what you mean by a "step up" coolidge. The Norton gearbox will do all imperial feeds and threads with no gear changes. The 1236 requires several to cover the more common threads.
> 
> Or did I interpret that wrong?



Bill that PM style gearbox is $300 more in Grizzly's line up.


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## wachuko

coolidge said:


> Plus the PM is not butt ugly green!



But the Grizzly will match with the mill I have...A garage with too many machines in different colors would be uncivilized... Hahahahhhaha.


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## wrmiller

coolidge said:


> Bill that PM style gearbox is $300 more in Grizzly's line up.



Oh, my bad. Didn't know that. I just 'assumed' it would be similar to mine. Learn something new every day...


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## wrmiller

double post deleted...


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## tmarks11

coolidge said:


> Bill that PM style gearbox is $300 more in Grizzly's line up.


It is debatable if it is actually a step-up, more expensive doesn't mean more functional.  Norton gear-box is very versatile, the "upgraded" closed gearbox doesn't have as many built-in ratios.



wachuko said:


> It will be the PM1236 if the boss agrees or the PM 1030 if I get too much s* from her... 3.7k vs 2k


Just so you are forewarned, while it is worth the wait to buy from Matt, it isn't like buying something off the shelf from walmart.  You gotta wait for the slow boat to arrive from China.  He gets regular shipments of his most popular items, while the less purchased ones (probably the 1022 and 1030) have a longer lead time.

If Grizzly's website says it is in stock, you will get it inside the week, however I would buy the PM1236 if I was in your shoes.


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## wrmiller

wachuko said:


> But the Grizzly will match with the mill I have...A garage with too many machines in different colors would be uncivilized... Hahahahhhaha.



That's my problem! 

(I have two lathes and two mills and none match...)


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## coolidge

tmarks11 said:


> It is debatable if it is actually a step-up, more expensive doesn't mean more functional.  Norton gear-box is very versatile, the "upgraded" closed gearbox doesn't have as many built-in ratios.
> 
> 
> Just so you are forewarned, while it is worth the wait to buy from Matt, it isn't like buying something off the shelf from walmart.  You gotta wait for the slow boat to arrive from China.  He gets regular shipments of his most popular items, while the less purchased ones (probably the 1022 and 1030) have a longer lead time.
> 
> If Grizzly's website says it is in stock, you will get it inside the week, however I would buy the PM1236 if I was in your shoes.



True but the enclosed gearbox is in an oil bath.


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## wachuko

tmarks11 said:


> Just so you are forewarned, while it is worth the wait to buy from Matt, it isn't like buying something off the shelf from walmart.  You gotta wait for the slow boat to arrive from China.  He gets regular shipments of his most popular items, while the less purchased ones (probably the 1022 and 1030) have a longer lead time.
> 
> If Grizzly's website says it is in stock, you will get it inside the week, however I would buy the PM1236 if I was in your shoes.



This is how I ended with the Grizzly mill... I wanted something now... Bike is done, so I am happy.   For the lathe, I can wait.


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## tmarks11

wachuko said:


> But the Grizzly will match with the mill I have..


Go buy a rattle can of John Deere green and spray the PM lathe.  Problem solved.

Plus you can brag to everyone that it is "owner refurbished"...


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## dave2176

G4003G. The green isn't any uglier than the wrong shade of blue. I have the affore mentioned green machine and it chambered a .308 barrel today. Perfect. The spider is a nice feature out of the box and mandatory for the barrel I did. The norton gear box is proven. See PM1340GT as well as millions of hours of industrial machines with the same gear box. More speeds means more ridiculously fine threads but also finer feeds which is useful in gun work I hear. Having owned the green one for more than two years I would make the same choice. Besides the machine is white on a green stand. I don't see the green when I'm machining anyway.
Dave


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## wachuko

dave2176 said:


> G4003G. The green isn't any uglier than the wrong shade of blue. I have the affore mentioned green machine and it chambered a .308 barrel today. Perfect. The spider is a nice feature out of the box and mandatory for the barrel I did. The norton gear box is proven. See PM1340GT as well as millions of hours of industrial machines with the same gear box. More speeds means more ridiculously fine threads but also finer feeds which is useful in gun work I hear. Having owned the green one for more than two years I would make the same choice. Besides the machine is white on a green stand. I don't see the green when I'm machining anyway.
> Dave



You know that I am just having some fun with the color... I don't mind the green, nor the blue, nor mismatched tools 

And there is always this:




http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/stops-rust/hammered-spray/


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## wachuko

coolidge said:


> Bill that PM style gearbox is $300 more in Grizzly's line up.



Oh... so more like what the Grizzly G0750G has... got it...


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## wrmiller

wachuko said:


> Oh... so more like what the Grizzly G0750G has... got it...



Coolidge and I were talking different things, which I didn't realize until later: When he said "upgrade" I was thinking functional upgrade like all inch feeds/threads, a.k.a. a Norton gearbox. He was referring to an enclosed gearbox with a oil bath. I don't think a partial gearbox that is enclosed is a upgrade on these light to medium duty lathes. I'd rather have all the feeds/threads. There are South Bends on this forum that have open gear boxes and have been running for over 50 years. My 1340GT has one and I love it.

Just to clarify.


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## wachuko

wrmiller19 said:


> Coolidge and I were talking different things, which I didn't realize until later: When he said "upgrade" I was thinking functional upgrade like all inch feeds/threads, a.k.a. a Norton gearbox. He was referring to an enclosed gearbox with a oil bath. I don't think a partial gearbox that is enclosed is a upgrade on these light to medium duty lathes. I'd rather have all the feeds/threads. There are South Bends on this forum that have open gear boxes and have been running for over 50 years. My 1340GT has one and I love it.
> 
> Just to clarify.



Bill... I know that was in English... but I did not understand one bit...  I need to do some more reading to understand what was being discussed... I just looked at the photos and saw that the G0750G control panel looked similar to the PM. 

I am reading and watching videos... I will learn all this, I promise!


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## wrmiller

Well, maybe I misunderstood again. 

The 750G lathe has an enclosed secondary gearbox for feed/threading settings. But not all settings can be realized with just the knobs. To get them all, you need to 'change gears' on the left side of the lathe (see the little charts on the left-most cover on the lathe). Same for the 752, 972z, and the PM1224.

Lathes like the 4003G and my 1340GT have a Norton style gearbox (open, with levers sticking out the bottom) that cover all supported imperial (inch) feeds and threads without having to do any gear changes on the side of the lathe. This feature was near the top of my 'wants' list for a new lathe. Is it necessary? No. But being able to quickly slide a couple levers back and forth for changes in feed rate when looking for that desired finish or simply trying to quicken up some stock removal was something I wanted.

Most of the folks I've talked to who have the enclosed gearboxes pick a set of gears that gives them the tpi (threads per inch) and feeds they most frequently use and are done with it except when something outside the norm dictates a gear change.  I do a bunch of one-off and prototyping stuff so I'm all over the map so to speak, so as I said, this feature was near the top of my want list.

It all just comes down to personal preference, space, money, etc..

Did that help at all?


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## wachuko

It did.  Thank you.


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## evilwrench

Be very careful if you buy a Grizzly. I have the 14x40 "High Precision" model. Very poor quality control. The "certificate of accuracy" is a bald face lie. Be forewarned, when you get it home check things carefully. Check tailstock alignment, check motor belt tension, mine was so tight the bearings were ruined! The tailstock was 1/8 of an inch high, requiring some very tedious mill work to make it work.  If you don't know how to check these things you should enlist the help of a good machinist. Personally, I recommend staying away from Grizzly!
Regards, Bob W.


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