# HF Mill Drill



## epanzella (May 31, 2019)

The round column HF Mill Drill is $1200 and I have a 20% coupon that gets me this machine for $960. What is the consensus on the usefullness of this machine? I currently do all my milling on a lathe and this would be a step up for me.  I have zero room in my shop so I would have to get rid of my drill press and put the mill drill in it's place.  A more expensive mill is not an option for me right now and I'd like to pull the trigger on a machine before all this tariff business raises the price on these mills. Any opinions welcome.


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## mikey (Jun 1, 2019)

Might help to provide a link to the machine in question.


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## matthewsx (Jun 1, 2019)

You can make it work but if you're patient you can get the same machine used for ~$600.

Remember, it's a hobby. You've done the right thing by coming here and asking, patience is your best friend here as there are many more machines out there than people using them. My shop is also pretty tight but I just opened up 10' of wall space by moving stuff that hadn't been touched in years. If we don't have permission to do what we want in the garage what do we have?

Btw, I see you're in Connecticut. There should be lots of used equipment available there....

Cheers,

John


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## matthewsx (Jun 1, 2019)

mikey said:


> Might help to provide a link to the machine in question.



Probably just like this one someone posted here on the complete other side of the country.









						Milling Machine (Harbor Freight)
					

Chicago Pneumatic Milling Machine 33686 30" by 60" steeltable stand with lots of tooling runs great $850 or best offer CALL or TEXT LANCE:



					eugene.craigslist.org


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## martik777 (Jun 1, 2019)

Someone here just got one of these used for $300: https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/my-new-mill-drill.78288/#post-665338

I paid 450 for mine with an Align power feed and 2 sets of clamp kits

They are good machines for the price, try to find one made in Taiwan


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## epanzella (Jun 1, 2019)

I meant to provide this link with the original post but had a senior moment!






						Harbor Freight Tools – Quality Tools at Discount Prices Since 1977
					

Harbor Freight buys their top quality tools from the same factories that supply our competitors. We cut out the middleman and pass the savings to you!




					www.harborfreight.com


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## epanzella (Jun 1, 2019)

matthewsx said:


> You can make it work but if you're patient you can get the same machine used for ~$600.
> 
> Remember, it's a hobby. You've done the right thing by coming here and asking, patience is your best friend here as there are many more machines out there than people using them. My shop is also pretty tight but I just opened up 10' of wall space by moving stuff that hadn't been touched in years. If we don't have permission to do what we want in the garage what do we have?
> 
> ...


I've been looking at used for a while now. Most are  3 ph Bridgeports and other industrial machines. When ever I see a small mill drill the price is almost as high as new. For me it has to be something that can drill because the only available spot is where my drill press is now.


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## matthewsx (Jun 1, 2019)

epanzella said:


> I've been looking at used for a while now. Most are  3 ph Bridgeports and other industrial machines. When ever I see a small mill drill the price is almost as high as new. For me it has to be something that can drill because the only available spot is where my drill press is now.



Well, you can drill one heck of a hole with a Bridgeport.... 

But I get what you're saying. I struggled with space issues in my shop (garage) since I downsized from 4800sqft of commercial shop five years ago. I just recently improved the situation a little by putting some stuff into storage, not ideal but I can rationalize that space at my home is premium for my hobby and it works with a longer term plan to get rid of that stuff.

As for the machine yes it will drill holes, probably better than your drill press. But I suspect you'll find that it's not really a replacement for a drill press in the long run. Sure, you probably almost never have to drill into the end of something two feet long but when you do you'll want the drill press back. I actually ran into the same issue with my old Gorton mill, once I put a drill chuck into it I usually couldn't fit the part I wanted to work on so ended up back at the drill press anyway.

Ultimately what works for you will depend on your projects and skill more than your space and the machine. That's what we do as hobby machinists, solve problems.  If you have the money and can wait the 5 to 17 weeks for delivery I'm sure the RF30 clone you're looking at will be fine. I assume you'll get the R8 spindle so lots of tooling available relatively cheap. Get a good vise and make some chips....

Cheers,

John


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## markba633csi (Jun 1, 2019)

Agree with John, unless your drill press is tiny I would try to keep him
Also, there's a reason they call it "Horror Fright" LOL  the quality can be iffy
Mark


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## jdedmon91 (Jun 1, 2019)

I agree on buying a used round column. The HF one is the ones that other vendors passed on such as Grizzly ect. If the used ones are a Taiwan machine it’s better machine. IHMO I’d try to fit a Bridgeport in if at all possible. The smaller ones with the 42” table will not take up an bigger space than the round column mill drills. I seen a BP clone of that size at an auction last year and it really wasn’t much larger than a floor drill press. 

You can work around the 3 phase. I use a Phase A Matic static one on my Lagun. That way I didn’t have to rewire my mill up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Richard King 2 (Jun 1, 2019)

I had a student bring one to a class a few years ago and he said the cross-slide shook when he used it.  We pulled it apart and saw the lousy fit.  We spent a couple of days working on it and even after that He said he wasted his money on it.   I suspect if your looking at it to run OK   or good you will be disappointed.


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## C-Bag (Jun 1, 2019)

I concur with most of what's been said. Two points especially, patience is truly a virtue and HF quality is iffy at best. I found a RF30 made in '88 with a heavy duty table and some tooling for $400. But it took 6mo. And in that time I learned about the strengths and weaknesses. What to look for, what to avoid. Tiawan made is better. Also know your expected work envelope. I knew 99% of what I wanted to do was not going to be bigger than 5"x5"x3". So for me the RF30 works quite well. I've had to do some work on mine but so far it's nothing I've not been able to handle and it being a very popular machine despite its many detractors you can easily find how to do the repairs and mod's online. And that includes moving it and taking it apart all with a HF engine hoist. There have been some screaming deals on Bridgeport clones around here and while it's true they don't take up that much more room you are talking 3x's the weight to move and that's what ultimately stopped me. BTW I'd figure a way to keep the drill press as there's been many a time in a project where I needed them both.


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## SubtleHustle (Jun 1, 2019)

This is my 91' central machinery mill, I picked up locally,  for $250. I've had it for a couple years, and couldn't be happier with it. I've done a lot of mods to it, and it hasn't let me down. Very rigid, about 800 lbs. However,  keep in mind, it's not the machine that will cost the most, it's the tooling/accessories.  I have well over $1500 in this "$250" machine. But I'll say again, its central machinery,  and I really didnt expect much...I was pleasantly surprised!


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## mikey (Jun 1, 2019)

The HF model is a Chinese clone of the RF-30 and in appearance looks almost identical but I suspect the build quality will not be as good as the Taiwanese RF models. I have not used a Chinese model before so I don't know how good or bad they really are vs the real thing, sorry. But on to your question ...

*What is the consensus on the usefullness of this machine? *

See all the above. You are going to find a lot of detractors regarding round column mills, many of whom have never even seen one in the flesh. For those of us who have lived with them, or at least myself, I think they are quite adequate for a hobby shop. Think about this - you have an 800# machine (weight of the machine plus the stand), 200# of it in the head that rides on a 4-1/2" diameter heavy cast iron column. It has a 3" diameter quill with 5" of travel, and that travel is useful under both radial and axial loads. I don't know how accurate the spindle is on a Chinese machine but I do know that you can replace the bearings pretty easily to greatly improve the run out. 

The design of these mills is essentially identical to an Asian drill press but the castings and components are considerably larger and more rigid. There is about 14" of travel up and down the column; while not huge, it is useful as it is. The head does swivel side to side, which can be very handy at times. It is true that you cannot drill the end of a long work piece but think about how often you've had to drill or mill the end of a really long piece and make up your own mind. 

Much is made about the round column but to be very honest, I haven't found that to be a major issue at all. Once I start work, I rarely need to move the head so this is not a big deal to me. I'm currently installing the True Line 8 that is supposed to maintain orientation of the head as it moves on the column but I'm not sure just how useful it is because as I said, this head movement thing is a minor issue. 

If these mills have a major con, I would have to say that the accuracy of the leadscrews, leadscrew nuts, hand wheels and gibs are not as smooth or accurate as I would like. The gibs are the antiquated tapered style that can be finicky to adjust properly. There is more backlash in the leadscrew nuts than I would like, even though they are adjustable for this. They work but are less precise than I would like. This makes a DRO almost a must-have on these machines if you need to do accurate work. 

Will it replace a drill press? Yes, for most work, this kind of machine will replace a drill press because it is, essentially, a drill press. It is also much, much more. But, just like a drill press, it also requires belt position changes to change speeds if that matters to you.

So, yes, it is a useful machine. In the 5 years I've owned mine, it has done all I've asked of it without a single problem. It is big enough and accurate enough for my needs. I would not trade it unless I found a small knee mill in pristine shape; until then, it stays.


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## Dudemanrod (Jun 1, 2019)

I was in the market for a mill for hobby limited room in my garage. I have been looking on and off for a long time. I wanted a used one so looked e bay cr letgo everywhere. Overpriced  and flakes everywhere but o joined this site and asked like you are doing and stayed patient and an RF- 30 Taiwanese column mill was available for 300.00 with vice and tools. They are heavy I took it apart and it still heavy. This thing looks capable and plenty of members like them. Be patient you will succeed.  Good luck


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## hman (Jun 1, 2019)

The data sheet for the HF mill lists a "comparable" of Shop Fox 426419.  Nope!  The comparable would be more like the Grizzly G0705 ($1800), G0760 ($2200, including stand) or G0754 ($2250, including power feed).  The Grizzlys have a 4 ½" column, no info on the HF.  Table sizes are similar.

I myself would prefer a Grizzly over an HF.

If budget is an issue, I'd even consider something like an X2 size (mini-mill).  Right now, LMS has one on sale for $730.








						SIEG X2D Mini Mill 4962
					

The LittleMachineShop SIEG X2D Mini Mill has all the features you want at an incredibly low price. Shop this high quality mill at LittleMachineShop today!




					littlemachineshop.com
				



I had an X2 for a number of years, during which it was my only mill.

... and of course, never lose sight of the fact that tooling up ANY mill will cost you a bundle as well!


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## jmarkwolf (Jun 7, 2019)

I had that same HF mill for 15 Years. I bought it new at a time (1998) when HF was guaranteeing free shipping both ways if you were unhappy. I figured I had nothing to loose.

When it arrived, I instrumented the flatness of the table, and other parameters while it was still on the shipping pallet, and found it more than acceptable. Put a Dro Pros DRO on it, used it happily and learned a lot for 15 years. Sold it for what I paid when I got the bug to buy a used Bridgeport.


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## epanzella (Jun 7, 2019)

Djl338 said:


> Well, it doesn’t seem to have any angle to it, and I like the sound of a “seat of the pants” approach.   I have a has parting tool that is about the same width I was thinking of working with as a starting point, and have lots of 4140 5/8”stock to practice with (outside diameter).   Probably not purchasing an optical comparator, the magnifying glass seems a bit more practical for my level. Thanks for the great explanation
> David





jmarkwolf said:


> I had that same HF mill for 15 Years. I bought it new at a time (1998) when HF was guaranteeing free shipping both ways if you were unhappy. I figured I had nothing to loose.
> 
> When it arrived, I instrumented the flatness of the table, and other parameters while it was still on the shipping pallet, and found it more than acceptable. Put a Dro Pros DRO on it, used it happily and learned a lot for 15 years. Sold it for what I paid when I got the bug to buy a used Bridgeport.


Thanks. I ordered the HF mill yesterday for $960 with a 20% coupon! There seems to be 2 camps on this. Those that hate them and those that like them. After researching this until my eyes crossed it seems that the people that don't have them don't like them and the people who actually own them  are pretty happy. I don't see how I can go wrong with the price. I've been milling for years on my lathe and this has got to be a giant step up.


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## Creativechipper (Jun 7, 2019)

Let us know what you think of it initially and then after some use, please, watching with interest. 

 I made my 1st 4 cuts with a ball end mill yesterday on my lathe set up. I was happy with the cuts on my lathe but see the light of a dedicated mill.

Best of luck!!


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## epanzella (Jun 7, 2019)

Creativechipper said:


> Let us know what you think of it initially and then after some use, please, watching with interest.
> 
> I made my 1st 4 cuts with a ball end mill yesterday on my lathe set up. I was happy with the cuts on my lathe but see the light of a dedicated mill.
> 
> Best of luck!!


Thanks. HF gave me a window of 5 to 17 weeks??? Fortunately I'm in no hurry. I  only bought it now because I was afraid of a price increase with the tariff situation heating up. You can do some decent milling on a lathe but setup is pain with the table vertical and if you have project that mixes milling and turning you waste some time switching back and forth. I'll certainly do a followup on here when I get my machine!


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## epanzella (Sep 26, 2019)

Well, I've got some time on the machine and I like it. Light years ahead of milling on the lathe.  It's no bridgeport but is perfect for my needs. The finish is good and it will definitely eat some steel. I made a table and fabricated a slide to keep the head aligned when raising and lowering. Definitely worth the money.


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## martik777 (Sep 26, 2019)

Lookin good!  Could I get some details on that slide?  Diameter of the rod, gauge of the angle iron, any top support etc. 

How much does it deflect when moving the head?

Is it easily removable if you want to swing the head?


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## Dudemanrod (Sep 26, 2019)

Yes me too I really like that set up ! Total cost for material?


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## epanzella (Sep 26, 2019)

martik777 said:


> Lookin good!  Could I get some details on that slide?  Diameter of the rod, gauge of the angle iron, any top support etc.
> 
> How much does it deflect when moving the head?
> 
> Is it easily removable if you want to swing the head?


The slide is 7/8" ground rod. I used a 7/8" pillow block as the bearing. The fit was tight so I had to spin the rod in my lathe and hit it with 400 grit paper to  get a good sliding fit. For rigidity the piece of angle iron coming up off the corner of the table is 3 x 3 with a 1/2 inch wall thickness. It overlaps the table leg by 2 feet and is quite stiff. The rest of the angle iron is 3 x3 x 3/16". Running the head up and down it stays within a thou or 2 but when I tighten the head clamps it moves about 5 thou. I've been meaning to get a torque wrench so I can tighten the head more consistantly but so far I havn't done it. The easiest way to swing the head would be to unbolt the pillow block from the bracket but it would only swing one way. The ground rod could be removed for swinging either way but then the rod would have to be re trammed.  The support at the upper end of the ground rod is the same as the bottom one.


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## epanzella (Sep 26, 2019)

Dudemanrod said:


> Yes me too I really like that set up ! Total cost for material?


I don't know the actual cost. Some stuff I already had. The rod and pillow block were about $40. I spent $250 on the 3/16 angle iron but that included enough to do both the mill table and a flatbed for my truck.


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## rock_breaker (Sep 26, 2019)

I like your set up andam  goung to check out the possibilities of stealing your design for my Enco 105-1117. Like you said there is a great difference between milling on the lathe and the mill/drill. I am owner # 2 and got the mill with ax X axis power feed, that I use a lot.  Mounting a DRO is somewhat in conflict with the power feed in that the power feed limit switch is mounted in front of the table using the groove in the table front for adjustable limit  blocks. Mounting the X axis DRO on the back of the table seems workable but reducing the Y axis travel 1.25 inches. Also a means to prevent damage to the X axjsDRO  would have to be put in place.  
Have a good day
Ray


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