# I'm sorta irritated



## westsailpat (Oct 13, 2017)

Well not really ok yes I am . Anyhow this guy has a pair cast iron legs that I think would be a good fit for my Craftsman/Atlas 6" . They are I'm sure Atlas , i'm just not sure if they are for a 6" .  The reason i'm irritated is because this guy seems to be one of those re purpose guys AKA Steam punker as he has other legs for sale . I would go over and talk to him but he says his price is firm and I respect that , i'm just not paying that much . How would you handle the art of the deal ?
PS  10 D-441 what does that mean ?
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/tls/d/craftsman-lathe-cast-iron-legs/6338592596.html


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## kopeck (Oct 13, 2017)

Well there is a 10D (predecessor of the popular 10F)  lathe so I'm guessing that's what they're from.

That does seem expensive.

K


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## Moderatemixed (Oct 13, 2017)

My experience has been the it will bother you to no end if you don’t get those legs.  You have, I’m guessing, already bought them in your mind.  Pay the man and in the future when you REALLY SCORE a deal consider yourself “even” with the universe.  Think of it as paying now for something you REALLY want knowing that the universe owes you one.....   You’ll be amazed how quickly the universe settles it’s debt......   Some call it Karma.  


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## kopeck (Oct 13, 2017)

Moderatemixed said:


> My experience has been the it will bother you to no end if you don’t get those legs.  You have, I’m guessing, already bought them in your mind.  Pay the man and in the future when you REALLY SCORE a deal consider yourself “even” with the universe.  Think of it as paying now for something you REALLY want knowing that the universe owes you one.....   You’ll be amazed how quickly the universe settles it’s debt......   Some call it Karma.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



That's an interesting way to go about it.  I guess I'm always shooting for a fair price.  I rarely "score" and often what seem like my better deals turn out to be not as good as they looked at first.  When you're dealing with old stuff it's a crap shoot.

I got some sickle mower parts from a guy once that was selling them as steam punk art.  He didn't know what he had and some how found them on eBay.  I asked some questions then just sat back for a while.  I asked what he would take for a package deal and he and I worked a very fair price.  I wonder if you just let him sit on them for a while if you can chip away at the firm price.

K


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## Moderatemixed (Oct 13, 2017)

I generally pay too much or as you say, find “it isn’t as good a deal as I thought” after the fact.  That said, I can always recoup some of my money or “fix” the broken.  That said I HATE the thought of waiting and loosing out on an Item I really want; few things irritate me as much and virtually nothing irritates me more.  Loosing out or missing out is worse to me than overpaying because I am left with nothing.  Overpay for something and you still have the item.  Just my 2 cents. Good luck.......  I hope you don’t miss out.   


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## westsailpat (Oct 13, 2017)

That's what i'm thinking K let him sit on them for a while , i'm in no hurry . Moderatemixed that a nice thought , you Canadian's are cool cats , only problem is the other day my Karma ran over my Dogma .


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## chips&more (Oct 13, 2017)

Let it go. Your turn will come. I bet you will find a lathe with base to replace the one you have all for less money.


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## Ulma Doctor (Oct 13, 2017)

Hi Mark,
go to him with 300 cash in a month when the legs are still for sale- he may have a different attitude

10D is the lathe model #
the digits following the 10D are the part#


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## Glenn Brooks (Oct 13, 2017)

Well, these  legs are sort of an outrageous price.  Problem is - these old style cast iron legs are highly sought after by antique dealers, and furniture makers. They make retro tables with them.  Very popular in upscale homes and settings. The market  has been going strong for this sort of thing for a number  of years now - much  to our machinist world detriment.  

If you really want them, make an offer and see where it goes.  Otherwise, I like the early comment - the universe will provide in some other way!

Good luck!

Glenn


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## wa5cab (Oct 14, 2017)

Mark,

10D-441 is the Atlas casting number and finished part number for each of the legs.  The top board is 10-442-36 through 10-442-54.  I do not have the part number for the shelf.  In 1943, the model number of the complete assembly was 10D-441B.  Which doesn't seem right but that's what the catalog shows.


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## westsailpat (Oct 14, 2017)

Thanks guys , I wonder if these 10 D legs are the same as the ones that were available for Atlas 618 ?


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## Silverbullet (Oct 14, 2017)

See what there going for on eBay then the advance deal to see what others payed.  I'm looking for a set too but no money only I want them for my planer . I'm hating this pain keeping me down. Ill find them sometime after I make my on from box or channel iron.


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## wa5cab (Oct 14, 2017)

Mark,

I cannot say for certain that the cast iron legs themselves are not the same, although they are probably different.  But the part numbers of the full set (2 legs, top board, shelf board, and motor or countershaft mount) are quite different.  The 6" stand part number is M6-800A.  For the 10" the numbers are 10D-442A, B, C, D and 10F-442A, B, C, D.  The A/B/C/D refers to the four standard bed lengths.  The D means vertical countershaft and the F Horizontal.  So I would bet that the castings are different.


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## westsailpat (Oct 14, 2017)

Thanks Robert , M6-800A is what I'm after then . I emailed this guy , it will be interesting to see what he has to say . But I see part of a # and it's 441 and on the motor bracket I think it's 9-22A . Seller said his stuff is 618 but that is just the seller .
http://www.ebay.com/itm/atlas-craftsman-618-lathe-original-cast-legs-kit/391904123810?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649


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## markba633csi (Oct 14, 2017)

It seems to me a nice solid wood bench (homemade of course) would be far preferable to those rickety looking little legs. 
And yes, people make a business out of collecting and re-selling pairs of those things.  But 400$? no freakin' way Jose. 
Mark


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## Doubleeboy (Oct 14, 2017)

If it were my situation I would head down to the steel yard buy 100 dollars worth of thick wall steel tubing and weld up something far superior, with tabs for adding shelves or what ever I wanted.  Then again if those are really your pet flavor, suck it up and pay the bill.  As far as steam punk go those legs don't even look that cool to me, nothing fancy or very retro about them, rather utilitarian looking to my eye.


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## westsailpat (Oct 14, 2017)

Hi Mark , D, yes a home made bench would be perfectly fine  , except for one thing (for me at least) I'm a vintage type guy . Yes sir re all things vintage and factory for me , well at least when I can afford it and it becomes available .


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## Bob Korves (Oct 14, 2017)

westsailpat said:


> Hi Mark , D, yes a home made bench would be perfectly fine  , except for one thing (for me at least) I'm a vintage type guy . Yes sir re all things vintage and factory for me , well at least when I can afford it and it becomes available .


Make some legs that work and wait for a sweet deal on factory ones?


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## .LMS. (Oct 14, 2017)

Barter.   Offer to turn some stuff on your lathe that could be sold as steam-punk parts, and trade it for the legs.


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## westsailpat (Oct 14, 2017)

Hi Bob, that's exactly what I did and yes I'm waiting for the factory ones . I won't bore you with my dismal financial situation (it's not that bad) but come late March 18' I will be getting my SS and I don't mean stainless steel . Yes I can see it now original tooling for the Craftsman 6" will be filling my little work space , I have my sites set on a  spindle collet set up , a steady rest , a taper attachment and those factory legs . The one thing that I want that is not original is  a AXO wedge tool holder from LMS , I have to draw the line somewhere . The lantern tool post is just to much of a PITA .  Here is a pic of the stand that I came up with to hold me over in tell those factory legs fall in my lap , it's a Harbor Freight stand and I made the wood table top and motor shelf .


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## Bob Korves (Oct 15, 2017)

Your current legs look just fine to me, Pat.  Form follows function.  Lathes are far more useful tools than fine art, in my mind.  Those legs will come along when you are least expecting them to, and probably for $10-20 if you just be patient while you continue looking.  Want and need are not at all the same thing...


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## Lordbeezer (Oct 15, 2017)

Not trying to hijack thread.guy came and looked at a Seneca falls 12"lathe I have for sale.he took pictures of legs.texted.5 minutes later he got a call.put it on speaker.designer in L.A. Offered him 1000.for legs plus shipping.he offered 500 for legs..leave the rest...couldn't do it...he buys all he can.sends to L.A.  That's messed up to me..Mark,,if you want legs better get them before their in someone's kitchen..


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## kopeck (Oct 15, 2017)

I agree with Bob, I think you have a very nice setup there.  I if you are going for "stock" then wait and see what comes up.

K


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## Bob Korves (Oct 15, 2017)

kopeck said:


> I agree with Bob, I think you have a very nice setup there.  I if you are going for "stock" then wait and see what comes up.
> 
> K


The steampunk fad will eventually fade (I hope soon!), and then whatever they have not butchered will be available at scrap prices or less...


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## kopeck (Oct 15, 2017)

Lordbeezer said:


> Not trying to hijack thread.guy came and looked at a Seneca falls 12"lathe I have for sale.he took pictures of legs.texted.5 minutes later he got a call.put it on speaker.designer in L.A. Offered him 1000.for legs plus shipping.he offered 500 for legs..leave the rest...couldn't do it...he buys all he can.sends to L.A.  That's messed up to me..Mark,,if you want legs better get them before their in someone's kitchen..



*sigh*

I bet it's just another bubble.  I'm into antique tractors.  When i started out you could get the machines and the parts very reasonably, combine that with how easy they were to work on and it's a great hobby that you can use at the end of the day.  Then in the mid-2000s they got collectable, all of a sudden completely worn out iron was being treated as gold and the parts went though the roof.  A lot of guys made a fair amount of money.  A few years ago the market started correcting it's self.  I think prices are pretty fair now, not as good as they once were but still with in reach of normal folks.  I suspect this will be the same.

K


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## westsailpat (Oct 15, 2017)

I think the repurpose thing is starting to subside also , I check the Bay and CL and nothing seems to be moving . 
http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas-6-inch-lathe-accessories/


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## richl (Oct 15, 2017)

This just showed up in the craigslist ads here, is this the legs in question
https://richmond.craigslist.org/tls/d/24-scroll-saw/6334300210.html

You get a free scrollsaw (humor currency of original hm poster)


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## kopeck (Oct 15, 2017)

Boy, they sure look like the right ones.

K


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## wa5cab (Oct 15, 2017)

I don't think that the top board is original.  Nor probably the bottom board.  Too thin and too wide.  The legs could possibly be Atlas. 

 I would call the seller and ask him whether he will look on the inside of the legs for a cast-in number that may end in -441.  

And I would try calling Clausing and ask them whether or not they have any Atlas part numbers still in their computer system ending in say 440 through 445 and beginning with 9-, 10- or M6-. or those prefixes plus a letter between A- and D-.  And if so, what the name or description is.  We know that 10-442 is the drawing number for the wood top board for the four lengths of 10" stands (and most likely for the 3/8" bed 12") because we have that drawing.


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## westsailpat (Oct 18, 2017)

Hey richl , that is a nice machine you found there and for $60. a unheard of deal in my parts . I would be willing to say that the scroll saw was made by Dunlap the makers of the Craftsman 109 . If that saw was in my area I probably would  buy it just for the legs like you say . But then on the other hand  I would most likely restore it legs and all because I could use a scroll saw . Thanks for the heads up , Mark .


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## westsailpat (Oct 18, 2017)

The guy with the 618 stand just emailed me . First he assured me that there was a 618 on the stand and there is M6-801 cast in one leg and 10-441 in the other . Mark .


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## wa5cab (Oct 18, 2017)

That could make sense.  Sounds like what Atlas did is made the left leg the same basic size as under the larger machines so that the right leg didn't have to be changed.  But modified the top rear of the left leg to fit the 6" countershaft bracket.  M6-800 was the model number assigned to the 6" floor stand. 
So it would make sense that the left leg was M6-801.  And the right one is 10-441.  The top board for the larger machines was 10-442-nn,  where "nn" was the bed length.  So the top board, if it's still original, is probably M6-442-36.  

The motor base might be S7-108A of M6-22A or ?.  The motors are all about the same physical size but the motor bases all seem to have been attached to the countershaft brackets.  Which varied quite a bit.

Unfortunately, unlike the 10", none of the Atlas or Craftsman 6" parts lists ever seem to have included the motor base.  Possibly because all of the manuals that actually show how to mount the lathe show it on a bench with the countershaft bracket and the motor attached to the bench top.  The motor base probably only came with the floor stand, which was an extra cost option.


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## westsailpat (Oct 20, 2017)

That is good info Robert , so if I happen to find a pair of 441 legs it would work for me . I know I've been blathering on about stock and factory I do like things to look as if they belong  but I'm not like a guy restoring a Pan Head HD to it's show room floor stockness . Ok well I had a Pan Head but I made it a chopper . Anyhow if you look at my motor set up you will see that it is all wrong , so I need to work on that too , Mark .


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## westsailpat (Oct 21, 2017)

Now they are just messing with me .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-In...584309?hash=item4b2acc6075:g:4KMAAOSw-0xYfUq2


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## kopeck (Oct 21, 2017)

Oh my....

K


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## wa5cab (Oct 22, 2017)




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## .LMS. (Oct 22, 2017)

Holy crap.  Who would pay that much for that?


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