# Summit 19-4 x 60 clean, repair and rebuild.



## Ryanjax (Mar 17, 2019)

I was asking questions in a post about a manual but thought I would get a thread started to document my progress.

I picked up a Summit 19-4 x 60 lathe from a diesel performance shop that never got it hooked up because they didn't have 3 phase. It sat for at least 5 years and was backed into by a truck in the shop.

Here is the picture from the ad.






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## Ryanjax (Mar 17, 2019)

I called Summit to determine some information on it. The SN is 3243584, based on that it was manufactured in 1975. The SN is located on the ways at the far end by the tailstock. 






It weighs ~5500lbs.
Uses D1-8 cam lock for the Chuck. 
Spindle bore is 4.125"
The tailstock is a MT5
It has a 7.5 hp 3 phase motor


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## Ryanjax (Mar 17, 2019)

I rented a equipment moving trailer from sunbelt and loaded at the shop I bought it from with a forklift.

At home we used a come along, pipes and some equipment skates. I also bent my favorite pry bar trying to get a block of wood under it. This thing is heavy!

We parked her in the garage backwards so I can clean up the back side and check the wiring out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










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## Ryanjax (Mar 17, 2019)

Now I'm in the process of cleaning and degreasing to see how much rust their is. I've been using Simple Green and a brass wire brush or a scrub brush. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













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## Ryanjax (Mar 17, 2019)

I got the QCTP removed and cleaned up in the parts washer then I soaked in evaporust. It looks like an Aloris CA size. I was happy with how well it cleaned up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







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## Ryanjax (Mar 17, 2019)

How does the compound come apart? I see a locking collar underneath and a small hole in the handwheel. Maybe a set screw?

I already removed the two gib adjusting bolts. 
























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## Cadillac (Mar 17, 2019)

On your handle in the center is a cap, pop that off which should expose a nut or screw. Can the handle spin? Run the slide to the end of its travel off the base. Leadscrew will disassemble then.


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## kdupuis (Mar 18, 2019)

Nice I picked up two of the 19-4's a couple of years ago that are still waiting for me to work on in my shop.


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## gwade (Mar 18, 2019)

Looks a lot like my Summit 17-3.


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## Ryanjax (Mar 18, 2019)

gwade said:


> Looks a lot like my Summit 17-3.


Good lookin lathes! 

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## Ryanjax (Mar 18, 2019)

I've been working on the compound. To get it apart I had to loosen the black lock ring. Seems like that holds the whole assembly together. It was threaded with acme threads. Once I got that loose the leadscrew came right out. After the leadscrew was out the brass nut slid out. 

The dial seemed to be held in by a small piece of spring steel. It had an odd cut to it like it was broken.

Can I reverse plate the hand wheels then nickel plate?

The upper and lower parts of the compound are being de-rusted by electrolysis. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			

















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## NCjeeper (Mar 18, 2019)

Good sized lathe.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Mar 19, 2019)

dang, that's a lathe and a half! I was going to suggest electrolysis, but you're already onto that


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## Richard King 2 (Mar 19, 2019)

Ryanjax said:


> I was asking questions in a post about a manual but thought I would get a thread started to document my progress.
> 
> I picked up a Summit 19-4 x 60 lathe from a diesel performance shop that never got it hooked up because they didn't have 3 phase. It sat for at least 5 years and was backed into by a truck in the shop.
> 
> ...


Backed into and tipped over?   Or just bumped into?


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## Ryanjax (Mar 19, 2019)

Richard King 2 said:


> Backed into and tipped over? Or just bumped into?


Doesn't looked to have been tipped over. 

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## Richard King 2 (Mar 19, 2019)

That's what I was thinking, what happened to it?  Handles bent.  Why tell us if nothing was wrong with it?


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## bhigdog (Mar 19, 2019)

YEAH BABY! Dat be a lathe.................Bob


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## Ryanjax (Mar 20, 2019)

The electrolysis worked great on the compound.  Got it all cleaned up and masked then applied primer and Waterborne Alkyd Urethane from SW.


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## Ryanjax (Mar 20, 2019)

I also started cleaning up the tailstock.  It came apart pretty easily.  I'm going to need to remove some rust and get the heavy grease cleaned up from the screw and gears.  It's hard and crunchy, Simple Green in my parts washer doesn't really touch it.

Also on the brass nut for the screw there was a big nick over one of the cap screws.  Wasn't sure it that was there for a reason.


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## Cadillac (Mar 20, 2019)

I wish my lathe had a tailstock handle setup like that. What happen with the carriage hand wheel missing, victim to the accident?


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## Ryanjax (Mar 20, 2019)

Cadillac said:


> I wish my lathe had a tailstock handle setup like that. What happen with the carriage hand wheel missing, victim to the accident?


Yes, that and the spindle activation lever on the apron were both victims. 

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## Ryanjax (Mar 21, 2019)

Got a little time in the shop this afternoon.  Put the tailstock and spindle in the electrolysis bath for a soak.  Also got the compound reassembled.  It almost looks out of place.


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## Ryanjax (Mar 22, 2019)

Fridays are usually short days on the ship so I got a good bit of time to in the shop today. 

I got the taper attachment removed. It seems to be rusted to the dovetail slides. I'll save it in the electrolysis bath for my Saturday duty day and see if I can get it loose Sunday. Not quite sure how to it works but I'll figure it out.

I also got the cross slide off and it's soaking in the parts washer.

The rest of the day I spent degreasing them webbing below the ways.... In hindsight I should have rented a steam pressure washer and cleaned up this thing off before I got it home. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





























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## Ryanjax (Mar 24, 2019)

Cleanup has been going well.  There was a rod coming out the side of the taper attachment that I had a tough time getting out.  I didn't think it was a good idea to heat up that machined assembly.  The sliding parts came apart after I soaked half of it in the electrolysis bath.  Most of the major parts are stamped with a 584 which is the last 3 digits of the serial #.  I thought it was pretty cool

The tailstock assembly is all painted and ready to be re-assembled once the paint cures a little bit.

I'm not sure if I should remove the apron or not.  Is there anything too complicated about it?  Thus far the disassembly has gone fairly well.  Just don't want to get in over my head.  

I'm waiting for the manual to tell me what lubricants to use in the headstock before I try to fire it up.

My RPC panel came in so I'll get that wired up.  I need to replace the wiring to my outlet with 10ga for the 15hp motor on the RPC.


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## Ryanjax (Mar 25, 2019)

I got the 15hp RPC wired up and tested today.  All worked as expected.  Put the motor and control box on a handtruck to make moving it around easier.  That motor weighs a ton!  I was surprised that the 30A breaker didn't trip starting the motor.  I had picked up 50A breakers and planned on rewiring that circuit in the panel.

I took the belt off the lathe so I could check the motor.  It would not spin up using the controls on the front but if I manually pushed in the contactor it worked great.  A little troubleshooting with the multimeter is in order once the manual comes in on Wednesday.  There is a transformer in there that looks a little crunchy that may be the control voltage transformer.


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## f350ca (Mar 25, 2019)

Mine has interlocks on the doors, they have to be closed and the clutch has to be in neutral to energize the motor.

Greg


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## Ryanjax (Mar 25, 2019)

f350ca said:


> Mine has interlocks on the doors, they have to be closed and the clutch has to be in neutral to energize the motor.
> 
> Greg


Thanks! I'll look at that. I didn't even look at the clutch because I had the belt removed. 

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## Ryanjax (Apr 3, 2019)

Got the control transformer replaced today. That solved the issues with starting the motor from the front panel. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







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## Ryanjax (Apr 3, 2019)

My next challenge is the headstock oil pump. It's missing.... I called Summit and a new oil pump is $1700. We won't be doing that.

I'd like to replace it with an external electric pump. I'll have to find someone to turn a small adapter to fit where the oil pump was to feed the clutches. The rest of the oil is plumbed to a distribution block and a tray that drips on the various gears.

Any recommendations on a pump? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







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## mattthemuppet2 (Apr 3, 2019)

I vaguely remember Doc Nickel over on PM/ HSM adding an external pump and filter to his large lathe (Springfield?). Might be worth looking him up to see what he used.


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## Ryanjax (Apr 3, 2019)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> I vaguely remember Doc Nickel over on PM/ HSM adding an external pump and filter to his large lathe (Springfield?). Might be worth looking him up to see what he used.


Thanks Matt, I'll look him up. 

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## mattthemuppet2 (Apr 4, 2019)

here you go, not sure if it'll be much help though
http://www.docsmachine.com/projects/springfield/springfield06.html


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## Ryanjax (Apr 22, 2019)

The spindle lever on the apron was broken off and the cast piece that it attached to was cracked off.

I brased the area up then machined it back down. After milling it flat I redrilled the hole for the lever. I still need to cross drill it but I don't have any roll pins in stock. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			

















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## Ryanjax (Jun 7, 2019)

Finally some forward progress on this.  Found an oil pump for it.  Now I need to rig up a suction line and the output to the distribution block.

Where could I find a small foot valve that I could connect to a piece of copper?  




This is the drive and feed back into the shaft it is driven from.  Feeds oil to the clutches.



The guy at the hydraulic shop is telling me that the black fitting is a JIS or british standard fitting and the other is a regular JIC fitting.  Both are metric I think.


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## Zyox Jägergeist (Jun 11, 2019)

Nice seeing you put some love to this old girl! We have exactly the same lathe (model 19-4 size 19x60) 

Believe it or not that lathe looks to be in pretty good shape, the one I have I bought from the machine shop I work at.. it had saw 20 years of daily hard use. Heavy turning and pushing in 2” drills with the carriage feed all day long. 

The summit you have puts allot of lathes to shame, even a victor of the same size we have in our shop would stall the spindle and pop the feeds out doing the work our summit did. 

But in the end 20 years of it left the forward clutch completely wore out and left every ball/needle bearing in the carriage toast as well as the worm gear for the X feed heavily worn. 
I am currently in the process of resurrecting her just like you are doing.

I noticed this,.. are you missing the oil drip pan in the main drive/clutch compartment?


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## bakrch (Jun 11, 2019)

Zyox Jägergeist said:


> Nice seeing you put some love to this old girl! We have exactly the same lathe (model 19-4 size 19x60)
> 
> Believe it or not that lathe looks to be in pretty good shape, the one I have I bought from the machine shop I work at.. it had saw 20 years of daily hard use. Heavy turning and pushing in 2” drills with the carriage feed all day long.
> 
> ...



Sadly, we have 7 newer Summit machines (all 4 years old or so) and at least 3 of them have needed major repair work.  Just as so many other things, made cheaply relative to their former selves.


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## Zyox Jägergeist (Jun 11, 2019)

bakrch said:


> Sadly, we have 7 newer Summit machines (all 4 years old or so) and at least 3 of them have needed major repair work.  Just as so many other things, made cheaply relative to their former selves.



It’s an unfortunate situation how the new manual machines are so poorly built... from what I have saw this is true for allot of brands. I only buy older manual machines. They are allot cheaper and the quality difference is night and day... that summit I have was built in Canada 
Pretty sure the new ones are built in China


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## bakrch (Jun 11, 2019)

Zyox Jägergeist said:


> It’s an unfortunate situation how the new manual machines are so poorly built... from what I have saw this is true for allot of brands. I only buy older manual machines. They are allot cheaper and the quality difference is night and day... that summit I have was built in Canada
> Pretty sure the new ones are built in China



huh, I just figured they were Taiwan machines ... but could very well be China made based on what I have seen. 

Our HBM-110 boring mill had a full spindle replacement.  22" lathe had a shaft and bearings replaced in the headstock. The two knee mills, I stopped counting the issues with those ... but the 16", 18" and 42" lathes have been pretty good so far.


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## Zyox Jägergeist (Jun 11, 2019)

bakrch said:


> huh, I just figured they were Taiwan machines ... but could very well be China made based on what I have seen.
> 
> Our HBM-110 boring mill had a full spindle replacement.  22" lathe had a shaft and bearings replaced in the headstock. The two knee mills, I stopped counting the issues with those ... but the 16", 18" and 42" lathes have been pretty good so far.



Yea wow... that’s really ****ty to hear 4 year old machines should never have any problems!! 

The two mills I own are from mid 1970’s, had a hard life running ar600 armour plate with some big cutters (10” face mills) been run out of oil who know how many times, the mechanicy survived the last no oil spree but the K&t didn’t have any oil in the case for about 4 years (no one checked it till it blew up the feed gears) when the feeds went they still ran it in a gear that worked (still no oil until she was grinding pretty mean) so that’s another machine I am fixing


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## Ryanjax (Jun 12, 2019)

Zyox Jägergeist said:


> Nice seeing you put some love to this old girl! We have exactly the same lathe (model 19-4 size 19x60)
> 
> Believe it or not that lathe looks to be in pretty good shape, the one I have I bought from the machine shop I work at.. it had saw 20 years of daily hard use. Heavy turning and pushing in 2” drills with the carriage feed all day long.
> 
> ...



Great to see so many others with the Summits.  I wasn't sure that there were many out there.  One of the machine shops here in Jacksonville has a few and one really large one.  Mine seems to be in pretty good condition and talking to the repair guy I have one of the better models that they made.  I'm working on figuring out the fittings for the pump and hopefully I can get this thing put back together soon.

Zyox, I couldn't get a drip pan or dimensions from the manufacturer.  Any chance you could get some measurements of yours?  Outside dimensions and where all the drip holes are.  Also, does your 19-4 have the oil distribution block like mine?  Ronnie at Summit made it sound like that wasn't on all of them.  I have an open port on mine and I'm not sure where that line is supposed to go.


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## Zyox Jägergeist (Jun 12, 2019)

Ryanjax said:


> Great to see so many others with the Summits.  I wasn't sure that there were many out there.  One of the machine shops here in Jacksonville has a few and one really large one.  Mine seems to be in pretty good condition and talking to the repair guy I have one of the better models that they made.  I'm working on figuring out the fittings for the pump and hopefully I can get this thing put back together soon.
> 
> Zyox, I couldn't get a drip pan or dimensions from the manufacturer.  Any chance you could get some measurements of yours?  Outside dimensions and where all the drip holes are.  Also, does your 19-4 have the oil distribution block like mine?  Ronnie at Summit made it sound like that wasn't on all of them.  I have an open port on mine and I'm not sure where that line is supposed to go.



Yes! It is, I enjoy seeing and sharing knowledge of these summits, they where a pretty spiffy lathe honestly! You don’t see Inch & MM threading on older lathes very often, usually you have to switch gears out for metric threads 

And I can certainly make up a drawing of those drip plate dimensions!. The plate has some copper lines on the bottom that direct the oil a few places including the sight glass.. might take a bit of tinkering but it is 100% doable! 

I believe mine also has that oil block! I shall take a picture of it when I get home~


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## Ryanjax (Jun 12, 2019)

Zyox Jägergeist said:


> Yes! It is, I enjoy seeing and sharing knowledge of these summits, they where a pretty spiffy lathe honestly! You don’t see Inch & MM threading on older lathes very often, usually you have to switch gears out for metric threads
> 
> And I can certainly make up a drawing of those drip plate dimensions!. The plate has some copper lines on the bottom that direct the oil a few places including the sight glass.. might take a bit of tinkering but it is 100% doable!
> 
> I believe mine also has that oil block! I shall take a picture of it when I get home~


You're pretty much my hero! Thank you very much! 

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## Zyox Jägergeist (Jun 13, 2019)

Got some time to take a few pics tonight... you can probably see what I mean by yours looks almost brand new in there! x) 
and I will take some dimensions of the plate right away.  





Looks like the only line you are missing is the dedicated line for the bearing the motor drives on?


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## Ryanjax (Jun 15, 2019)

Zyox Jägergeist said:


> Got some time to take a few pics tonight... you can probably see what I mean by yours looks almost brand new in there! x)
> and I will take some dimensions of the plate right away.
> View attachment 296549
> View attachment 296548
> ...


That looks easy enough to fabricate! Thank you so much for taking the time to take the pictures. 

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## Richard King 2 (Jun 15, 2019)

The fitting with no tube maybe made that way and it squirts oil out on the sheet metal plate and see all those holes drilled in it?   That is made that way to oil the parts under the holes.   A few more pictures on a cleaned plate and  showing where the other tubes go would be helpful.  No guessing.   Have you written the factory or distributor for a lubrication chart and drawing?


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## Zyox Jägergeist (Jun 15, 2019)

Richard King 2 said:


> The fitting with no tube maybe made that way and it squirts oil out on the sheet metal plate and see all those holes drilled in it?   That is made that way to oil the parts under the holes.   A few more pictures on a cleaned plate and  showing where the other tubes go would be helpful.  No guessing.   Have you written the factory or distributor for a lubrication chart and drawing?



More pics will be on the way of the pan, as well as a drawing of the hole locations. You are correct that the short copper tube just feeds the drip pan.. figured he didn’t need pics of the other tubes since by the looks of it he is only missing the one that feeds the drive bearing, unless his lathe skipped that line (kinda looks like they just run it off a drip coming from up top) and I do not have any books on this lathe. A book is like 50$ from summit, I have just had to much on the go x)


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## Ryanjax (Jun 27, 2019)

More progress, we're pumping oil.  Got the suction line manufactured.  I have another post trying to get help identifying the thread into the oil distribution block.


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## Ryanjax (Jul 5, 2019)

Made lots of progress on the lathe.  The oil is pumping as designed and I got the clutches figured out.  There is a brass yoke that shifts between forward and reverse.  It was not aligned properly on the shaft so I had to move it over about an 1/8th to get it to activate the clutches properly.  Now that I got all that figured out I made a toe jack to help lift it up so I could spin it around.


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## Zyox Jägergeist (Jul 5, 2019)

Ryanjax said:


> Made lots of progress on the lathe.  The oil is pumping as designed and I got the clutches figured out.  There is a brass yoke that shifts between forward and reverse.  It was not aligned properly on the shaft so I had to move it over about an 1/8th to get it to activate the clutches properly.  Now that I got all that figured out I made a toe jack to help lift it up so I could spin it around.




Good bit of progress! cannot wait to see more~
I finally got around to doing a quick sketch up of the oil drip pan. been super super busy myself!




#1,2,3 holes have copper pipe brazed on the bottom to direct the oil places.
#1 pipe feeds either the #1 worm set in the last pic, or the gear below it. I cannot tell without it running, might do both
#2 pipe feeds the oil viewing window (directly in the center of the window)
#3 pipe feeds the top of the middle main spindle bearing

All the small holes are the same size (.11 od) and the plate is .08" thick steel with a lip all the way around the parameter making the total thickness .375 from the bottom of the plate to the top of the lip, it has a cutout in this lip where the oil feed line enters the pan 
	

		
			
		

		
	



Hopefully this helps... if I missed anything feel free to give me a poke!


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## Ryanjax (Jul 6, 2019)

Zyox, 

Thank you so much.  I will get to fabricating and give you an update!

Ryan


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## Ryanjax (Jul 8, 2019)

Thanks to Zyox got the oil pan all fabbed up and installed.  I think I'm due for some tailstock alignment then I need to make some leveling feet.  So close to getting this thing up an running!


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## Ryanjax (Jul 8, 2019)




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