# Need help with this lathe - 109.21270



## CnC65 (Feb 8, 2022)

Just acquired this old lathe and wonder if it's worth restoring? Sons apprenticing as a machinist and I'd love to restore it and surprise him. Wondering how much play is acceptable in the gears?


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## JPMacG (Feb 8, 2022)

I think we will need more information ... ideally a lot of photos.  Gear slop is generally not a big problem.  Bed wear and spindle runout are the serious problems that could make a lathe not worth restoring. 

Restoring a lathe can be a wonderful learning experience.   Maybe your son would benefit from doing it himself.


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## CnC65 (Feb 8, 2022)

I'll take a bunch of photos tomorrow and report back. What angles, areas and views would be the best for you guys to reference to advise me?


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## JPMacG (Feb 8, 2022)

I'd say just start with some general shots - front, back, headstock, drive train, inside the headstock cover (showing pulleys), carriage, tailstock, etc.


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## Dave Smith (Feb 8, 2022)

if there are no reasons the lathe is not operational as it is--- then now is the best time to give it to your son for him to use and then if he feels it isn't adequate to get good results---both of you can work together to refurbish it, or upgrade to a more precise lathe.
Dave


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## Aaron_W (Feb 9, 2022)

Model number of the lathe would be very useful as well, there are a lot of different machines covered under the AA, Atlas, Craftsman banner.


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## wa5cab (Feb 11, 2022)

We still have no idea as to what type or model of lathe you have.


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## CnC65 (Feb 11, 2022)

Sorry for the delay guys


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## CnC65 (Feb 11, 2022)

More


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## CnC65 (Feb 11, 2022)

More


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## CnC65 (Feb 11, 2022)

More


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## CnC65 (Feb 11, 2022)

And finally


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## JPMacG (Feb 11, 2022)

I am not familiar with that model - I think it is made for Craftsman by Dunlap whereas most Craftsman lathes are made by Atlas.  It looks to be in nice condition.  I have heard that the small spindles on these lathes often become damaged - bent - and that would be a big problem.  If your spindle runs true then you have a nice little lathe.  Others here will know more.


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## Aaron_W (Feb 11, 2022)

Ok, yes this is the lathe made for Sears by AA, I have the same one but sold under the Craftsman brand, Dunlap was an old Sears brand no longer used. It is kind of odd to see this one marked for Dunlap, because this is the restyled version that came out in the late 1940s and is usually badged as a Craftsman. Perhaps they continued the Dunlap name longer in Canada than the US.

It looks complete and in decent shape. These are extremely light duty and often have spindle damage from people trying to force them to do more than they were made for. They are popular and have something of a following. Not bad little lathes when used within their limits, would make a decent little lathe for model parts, pens and other small parts. A big downside is the lack of calibrated hand wheels so they are better suited to artistic (looks good by eyeball) projects rather than high precision parts.

Parts are available, but can be expensive. The only thing that jumps out at me is the change gears, do you have a full set or just what is on the lathe?


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## Aaron_W (Feb 11, 2022)

CnC65 said:


> More



Never mind on the Dunlap comment, I see yours is branded Craftsman, I thought I saw a Dunlap badge in some of the other photos.


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## CnC65 (Feb 11, 2022)

Aaron_W said:


> Ok, yes this is the lathe made for Sears by AA, I have the same one but sold under the Craftsman brand, Dunlap was an old Sears brand no longer used. It is kind of odd to see this one marked for Dunlap, because this is the restyled version that came out in the late 1940s and is usually badged as a Craftsman. Perhaps they continued the Dunlap name longer in Canada than the US.
> 
> It looks complete and in decent shape. These are extremely light duty and often have spindle damage from people trying to force them to do more than they were made for. They are popular and have something of a following. Not bad little lathes when used within their limits, would make a decent little lathe for model parts, pens and other small parts. A big downside is the lack of calibrated hand wheels so they are better suited to artistic (looks good by eyeball) projects rather than high precision parts.
> 
> Parts are available, but can be expensive. The only thing that jumps out at me is the change gears, do you have a full set or just what is on the lathe?


Yes there are several gears in a box


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## wa5cab (Feb 12, 2022)

At least two of the photos show a Sears nameplate (unfortunately not legible).  So what is the Sears model number?


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## wa5cab (Feb 12, 2022)

Never mind.  I found it in another post and added it to the thread name.


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## wa5cab (Feb 12, 2022)

The Dunlap badge was dropped around the end of WW-II.  The vintage of the 109.21270 is Korean War.  One later model has turned up but only two of them have been mentioned (109.21280).  You will find a manual and some other info on the 109.21270 in DOWNLOADS.


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## CnC65 (Feb 12, 2022)

So I guess my biggest question is: would this little thing even be worth restoring for an apprentice who will be writing his 
red seal in the coming fall or should I look for a bigger one? What can it actually do and what are its limitations?


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## tq60 (Feb 12, 2022)

This is a great "learning lathe"

Is is very limited in power and abilities so mistakes are less likely to hurt you.

It requires more skill to produce accurate work but is capable of good product when used within its limitations.

General cleaning of gunk and fresh correct oil and use AS IS.

Learn on this and hunt...

For the next one...and the next one...

Our first was worse than that, second was better than first but worse than that...

Finally have a good crew but you never know what may come next...

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


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## Aaron_W (Feb 12, 2022)

CnC65 said:


> So I guess my biggest question is: would this little thing even be worth restoring for an apprentice who will be writing his
> red seal in the coming fall or should I look for a bigger one? What can it actually do and what are its limitations?



Really depends on his needs and the actual condition of this lathe. They are worth a bit of money, typically for one in that condition I see them going for around $200-400 on local sales, but I have seen some sell for as much as $800 on ebay, but that is just crazy to me.

Parts and tooling can be somewhat expensive for what you end up with. The real value of these is for somebody doing very small light work, that doesn't require high precision and wants a very small lathe. They are also very stylish with the turned metal and art deco looks which probably plays a part in their popularity.

Not that these can't do fairly precise work, but lacking calibrated handwheels the user will have to take frequent measurements off the part as they work making it less convenient. I don't say this to demean these lathes as I think they are neat, but they were not really made for serious machining projects, even small ones. They were sold as an inexpensive hobby lathe for garage tinkerers, and mechanically inclined teenagers. They are well suited to making trinkets, ball point pens, salt shakers, chess pieces etc.
For some comparison, in 1949 Sears sold these lathes for $43 (US) they also sold the similar sized Atlas built Craftsman 101.7301 6x18" lathe for $106. Honestly even the infamous 7x12" Chinese mini-lathe is a more capable machine.

For somebody looking to do the kinds of projects I mentioned above then putting a bit of money and effort into is well worthwhile. However if your son is already a machinist apprentice and you are thinking he would use it in relation to his apprentice training he would probably be better served with a larger more capable lathe. Personally I'd just ask him, maybe he would enjoy for what it is, or maybe the two of you could fix it up and sell it using the money to go towards a lathe he could use.


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## Manual Mac (Feb 13, 2022)

I had one as a youth, & liked & used it At home.
i knew it’s limitations, as when I grew up my Jr. High & High School had many lathes to learn on.
not so much any more.
your son would probably be better off with a more robust lathe, but these 109 type are still a hoot to use.


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