# Engage Back Gear



## David Pollard (Nov 1, 2013)

Hi Everyone,
I have a V42 with the babbit bearings and back gears.  The little cam leaver to engage the back gears moves freely so that is no problem.  However I can't disengage the little lock pin on the "bull wheel" if is that is the correct name.  I also see another  pin like thing with a plain straight screw driver slot 180 degrees from the first.  I tried to turn this but I couldn't move it much so I put back in the original position.

Any tricks to getting the back gears to engage correctly?

Thanks in Advance
David


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## wa5cab (Nov 1, 2013)

David,

The pin sticking out of the right side of the bull gear (large spindle gear) locks the pulley to the bull gear (which is keyed to the spindle).  It has a spring loaded ball detent hidden in the gear that holds the pin in one or the other of two positions.  To disengage the pin from the pulley, you pull it out (to the right if standing at the front of the lathe) about 5/16".  Either the pin is stuck in the gear or the pulley or both, or the ball is stuck.  If you have a common steel (not plastic) automotive trim panel tool with a notch in the end, and the end bent at an angle to the tool's handle and shaft, you can use it in the groove on the pin to pull the pin out.  If not, improvise such a tool.  Tape a block (metal, wood, plastic, ?) of appropriate thickness to the tool's shaft near the bend to give you a fulcrum to push against.

I don't know what else you could have that is in the gear and 180 degrees around from the pin.  In the headstock there is a pin with a smaller diameter tip that engages the indexing holes in the bull gear.  It should of course always be pulled out.  But I think that on the 10" it's at 9:00 o'clock.

Robert D.


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## David Pollard (Nov 1, 2013)

Hi Robert,
That is a good suggestion. I didnt want to force it if I was supposed to turn to unlock or something. It has probably been many tears since it has been moved so the ball is probably stuck.
i have figured out the indexing pin which works no problem.  The other screw thing is definitely on the bull gear.  I'll leave well enough alone if releasing the other pin does the trick.

I'll give it a try and post the result.
Thanks
David


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## schor (Nov 1, 2013)

Can you post a pic of that your other pin looks like?



pollardd said:


> Hi Robert,
> That is a good suggestion. I didnt want to force it if I was supposed to turn to unlock or something. It has probably been many tears since it has been moved so the ball is probably stuck.
> i have figured out the indexing pin which works no problem.  The other screw thing is definitely on the bull gear.  I'll leave well enough alone if releasing the other pin does the trick.
> 
> ...


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## rafe (Nov 2, 2013)

You need to pull the pin out that is closer to the center to free it from the pulleys on the spindle on my little atlas sometimes it needs a small flatbar to pull it out....you should be able to hold the pulleys on the spindle and turn the chuck freely (power off of course)....(the outside pin is left pulled out all the time when running !!) then you can engage the back gear lever to the spindle .......Then when you turn on the motor it turns the pulleys & spindle which will then turn that "Back Gear" that will transmit power to the chuck..at a reduced RPM....when the back gear is disengaged and the spindle is pinned back in then the pulleys on the spindle drive chuck(spindle) directly.... I hope that is clear to you  Regards


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## David Pollard (Nov 3, 2013)

After a bit of encouragement with a flat blade screwdriver I encouraged the Bull Gear Lock pin out of its little home.  However the Gear and the Pulley were still locked together.I turned the Bull Gear 180 degrees and completely removed the other screw and then the pulley span freely from the bull gear.From this I conclude that this second screw was added as an additional locking mechanism as the original pin still seems to be operational.They both appear to work so I will just use both of them I have attached two picutres, one of each locking mechanism just for completeness.Thanks for your assistance.


David

PS Sorry my paint job isn't as good as some I have seen here.  That is another project once I have all the bits working nicely.


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## DAN_IN_MN (Nov 3, 2013)

pollardd said:


> After a bit of encouragement with a flat blade screwdriver I encouraged the Bull Gear Lock pin out of its little home.  However the Gear and the Pulley were still locked together.I turned the Bull Gear 180 degrees and completely removed the other screw and then the pulley span freely from the bull gear.From this I conclude that this second screw was added as an additional locking mechanism as the original pin still seems to be operational.They both appear to work so I will just use both of them I have attached two picutres, one of each locking mechanism just for completeness.Thanks for your assistance.
> 
> 
> David
> ...




Paint, smaint!  :rofl:  Paint doesn't cut metal! 

Great job getting the back gear working!


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## rafe (Nov 3, 2013)

That's odd, I'd try to find out what is going on there ...can you use the back gears with the screw out? I see you can but see if it pops out under usage,There could have been a problem with the original pin ?? I personally would want to see what is going on with the bull gear! 
Someone had a reason for doing that......I would think


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## xalky (Nov 3, 2013)

DAN_IN_MN said:


> Paint, smaint!  :rofl:  Paint doesn't cut metal!


My sentiments exactly. :thumbsup:


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## David Pollard (Nov 4, 2013)

Your probably right.  If it is non standard someone probably had a reason for doing it.
Disconnect during operation is the obvious one.

There does not appear to be any free play in my spindle bearings at the moment so I'm kinda reluctant to pull it appart to have a look at the bull gear.
I don't have a need to use the back gears at the moment although the guess the pin(s) is/are in use the rest of the time anyway.  
I only ask as I want to know how all the features work.

It is very strange getting back into this stuff after 30 years away.  (good strange that is 
None of the machines I used then were anywhere near this old.  When I finished up I was using a $500,000 CNC lathe which was the absolute ducks guts at the time.

Thanks for all your input.

I also accept the "Paint Smaint" option 

David.


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## wa5cab (Nov 5, 2013)

I am coming to the conclusion that the screw 180 deg. around from the pin is a vintage indicator.  Unfortunately, the available illustrated (exploded view) parts manuals are all 1950's or 1960's revisions and show only the latest revision part numbers.  The only early 10" parts list I know of is actually on the 10E Unit Plan model, which has no back gears.  The revised 10F parts manual does not show the screw.  My guess is that somewhere along the way, Atlas decided that the screw wasn't necessary and eliminated it.  I also noticed that originally the spindle pulley had the same 60 indexing holes as does the bull gear.  This was dropped at some point, too.  All that I can add is that by the time that Atlas got around to writing an instruction section for the manuals the screw in the bull gear was long gone.

Robert D.


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## David Pollard (Nov 6, 2013)

I think mine is a 10F as it also has the power feed on the cross slide.
When I took that screw all the way out I noticed that the thread on the bull wheel extended all the way out along the webs which extend out past beyond the hole. 
This tells me that it wasn't a back yard job.  The tap must have been fed in by a machine moving at the correct pitch.  You couldn't do that by hand.

Its all good as nothing is broken
Thanks for your interest.

David


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## wa5cab (Nov 6, 2013)

Yes, if the nameplate says that it is a "V42", it is a 10F, which were supplied with either babbit or Timken bearings and with either vertical or horizontal countershafts.  If it were a 10D (or formerly a 10E), it could at some time have been upgraded to 3/4" dia. lead screw and power crossfeed but the nameplate (assuming that it had one still) would say "1042".

Robert D.


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