# Surface Grinder for a hobbyist



## Driveslayer45 (Feb 19, 2020)

Good afternoon all,

Silly question that I am sure has been asked before, is a surface grinder a worthwhile investment for a hobbyist? At this point I only piddle with stuff for myself, i doubt i would ever make any money at it.

i do a little person gunsmithing, making parts for my motorcycle, odds and ends kinda stuff...

related question, if i get one do i need a magnetic chuck?  i am looking at SG for $300 but has a single t-slot in the table, no mag chuck ..


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## MrWhoopee (Feb 19, 2020)

It's a slippery slope. I thought all I needed was a lathe and a mill. And a cut-off bandsaw. And a bench grinder. And a TIG welder......
You get the picture. If I could find a surface grinder for $300, I'd get my wallet out before they change their mind.

And yes, you'll need a mag chuck.


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## DavidR8 (Feb 19, 2020)

Stop the madness!


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## mikey (Feb 19, 2020)

There is no stopping it, Dave. You stepped onto the slippery slope with your eyes wide open. It is now too late ...


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## MontanaLon (Feb 19, 2020)

What I've noticed with surface grinders is there aren't many hobbyists who want one and that lack of demand means there are deals to be found. I see them frequently at scrap prices. 

A SG without a chuck cheap probably is scrap. 

But if I ever find one I can break down to fit down my basement stairs it will be mine. Same with a shaper.


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## Nutfarmer (Feb 19, 2020)

Make sure and check to see if the spindle bearings are ok. They can be very expensive to replace. This is the wrong group to ask if you need another tool. Collectively we are great enablers. Once you have a surface grinder you will find more uses for it than you thought possible.


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## Liljoebrshooter (Feb 19, 2020)

Here is what happened to me


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## Janderso (Feb 19, 2020)

Once you spend over $50,000 you will begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel
These are the good old days.
This is what happened to me.


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## Liljoebrshooter (Feb 19, 2020)

Now that's just mean.


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## benmychree (Feb 19, 2020)

I could mention the one that I got for free that is just like Jeff's, but that would be even meaner ---


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## pdentrem (Feb 19, 2020)

We are buying a Chevalier FSG-3A20 to replace our near death BS 618. It is surprising what get done on these machines. Very handy.
Pierre


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 19, 2020)

So is there any magic to checking the spindle bearings? This machine is not currently connected to power, is that a concern. I even trying to read up  it most seem to advise running it without a wheel to look for vibration.

I'm looking at a Boyer and Shultz  6 x 12...


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## pdentrem (Feb 19, 2020)

Not connected to power is very much a problem. Spindle bearings and worn out table ways are the things to look at. Our BS has worn ways and the feed screws are in need of replacement. There are no parts available for our particular machine, and we cannot afford the down time. We really could use 2 machines! The spindle is loose but we start up in the morning and leave it running all day. Since the machine is used a lot there is no sense to turn off and the bearings as they warm up become tighter and thus we get a better finish. Cost to rebuild is more than buying a newer used machine! The one we are buying is $3600 vs more for the spindle repair alone!
Pierre


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## Chipper5783 (Feb 19, 2020)

I love my little 6x18 Ingar.  It is an all manual machine.  It came to me in 3 main pieces and several cardboard boxes.  That is how the previous owner received it.  I paid $600 CAD, I had to buy a magnet, and a bunch of minor components, and then spent plenty of time cleaning and fixing.  Once it was powered I discovered the spindle bearings were no good - more $$ and time.

It works great now.  I'm glad that I headed down that rabbit hole - I'm grinding stuff all the time.  Sure it cost more than I thought it would, but I learned lots and had fun.  All in it was about $1500 CAD, and I learned a lot, I understand the machine and had/having fun.


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## MontanaLon (Feb 19, 2020)

There has been a little Hitachi blade grinder listed for a while now. I keep toying with the idea of getting it and seeing what I can do with it. It appears to have a single T slot table with a blade grinding attachment on it. Seems to have a decent x axis travel but very little y axis and no z axis. Probably entirely unsuited for anything but grinding blades but still kind of cool.


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 19, 2020)

so is there any way to check the spindle bearings without power?

will one of these perm magnet chucks on amazon for $150 be fine or do i need more?


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## C-Bag (Feb 19, 2020)

I looked long and hard at a SG and when two came up that I could afford and there was still parts for I read everything I possibly could here on several threads. With that in mind I set off and both failed the tests.

I don't think there's any way to test a spindle without it being under power. I was warned not to buy anything that you can't test. Like to grind something. The one had a bunch of wheels, fancy tooling etc and the spindle sounded great. But when we pulled the table and checked the ways, no bueno por nada, fail. The other was cheaper and looking back most of what was wrong with it was it had been bought new over 20yrs ago and never ever set up. The wheel was loose(!) the gibs had never been adjusted. Just everything I touched or tried to check was loose. I got spooked and bailed on the whole idea. If you go in with the idea you want a project and it turns out it ok you're golden. If not you've got maybe a project or a boat anchor as some have not been made for decades. SG's are a very deep subject so I decided I've got enough I'm trying to fix and learn to use.


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## Chipper5783 (Feb 20, 2020)

Driveslayer45 said:


> so is there any way to check the spindle bearings without power?
> 
> will one of these perm magnet chucks on amazon for $150 be fine or do i need more?


I don't believe you can check the spindle bearings without power.  Obviously if it is seized - that's a problem.  In my case (the Ingar) performed okay, but I really wasn't getting as good a surface finish as I felt I should be.  When I finally took the plunge and disassembled the spindle, I discovered a previous owner had installed conventional C3 clearance bearings (about $25 for all three).  The correct bearings, called out in the manual were nearly $500 (they would have been more, but I got two of them as NOS off ebay).

In the case of the Ingar design, the spindle is actually quite simple.  I made special sockets (4 finger) for the bearing nuts and a pusher to keep everything straight on the disassembly.  I heated the bearings for the installation.  Most of the time was spent in making tooling.  However, all spindles are not the same.  I have no doubt that some are very difficult to service.

The new bearings really did help, but technique is also important.  Just because the grinder turns on and the wheel goes around without squealing - does not mean the spindle is good.  Just because you don't get a good surface finish, does not mean the spindle is in poor shape.  In otherwords, simply being able to turn the grinder on, perhaps do a quick grind - will tell you almost nothing.

If you want to buy a grinder that you know is all good - then go to a machinery dealer and get one with a warranty.  Expect to spend a lot more $$.


The cheap permanent magnet chuck is probably fine.  I got one and I am very satisfied with it.  Once you have the magnet ground in, there really isn't much that can go wrong.

Be forewarned, grinding is a skill all in itself.  Don't expect to mag a block of metal down, switch the machine on and start getting "rock star" results.

C-Bag is certainly correct that one is well advised to run a machine before buying.  I rarely do that.  I generally just give the machine a good look over and then buy or walk.  The reason is that I'm buying at the bottom of the market - and any machine that is powered up and working well is out of my price range.  Of course if you have the $$ and want the confidence, then test the machine out thoroughly.  I've been fortunate - I've bought 6 machines based just on looking them over, all have worked out well for me.  I have bought a couple that I was able to test out - they needed repairs too.  My very first machine (38 years ago) is not one of those 6 - that one I got from a machinery dealer.

How much is the grinder you are looking at?  If you are not overly exposed, then go for it.  Perhaps it will be a boat anchor, perhaps you'll be able to sell it on - maybe it will work out.  I suggest looking for "good bones" and don't sweat the small stuff.

Let us know how you make out.  David


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 20, 2020)

Thanks for the great feedback.

I'm looking at a Boyer and Shultz 6x12 for $300. After a cheap mag Chuck and vfd I'll be into it about $600, then there's tooling. Outside of a used wheel that's on it I don't think it comes with much more, if any.


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## 7milesup (Feb 20, 2020)

Just bought this a bit ago. 
Also purchased a Huayang VFD drive for it, which I did hook up to convert my single phase to 3 phase.  Purchased a 2hp VFD to provide electrical headroom on driving the 1hp SG motor.
My SG seems to be in great shape, although the mag chuck needs to be taken apart.  The Ceramax chucks are filled with oil and I have a feeling mine might be filled with other crap too.
Oh, paid $500 for this and the best part it was only 40 miles from my home.  Yippeee!!!


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 20, 2020)

Yeah that's. Nice one. It came with the mag Chuck for that?


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## C-Bag (Feb 20, 2020)

Driveslayer45 said:


> Thanks for the great feedback.
> 
> I'm looking at a Boyer and Shultz 6x12 for $300. After a cheap mag Chuck and vfd I'll be into it about $600, then there's tooling. Outside of a used wheel that's on it I don't think it comes with much more, if any.


That's  the crux of the biscuit. Like a lathe, mill, etc the tooling is many times more than the original outlay. In my case the first machine was a Chevalier 6x12 with probably 8 wheels, special grinding fixtures nice mag chuck and looked in good condition. The seller was the son who grew up in the shop and swore the SG was not used that much. When I noticed the paint was worn off the handles and that the spindle had been rebuilt that's when I decided to pull the table. You're going to have to pull it anyway to transport the SG. What I saw made my heart sink. It had an oiler system and either the orifices were plugged or he didn't pump it because the ways were scored and worn. And I never would have seen that otherwise and was really pretty much sold because it used to be a great machine. The son was pretty much floored too.


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## 7milesup (Feb 20, 2020)

Driveslayer45 said:


> Yeah that's. Nice one. It came with the mag Chuck for that?



Yes, it came with the chuck for that.  
Now, mine came with no tooling except for the wrench for wheel.  But... I have a buddy that has wheels for this grinder that he said he would give to me, so I scored on that front too.
I quite often see surface grinders go for cheap on auctions around here, but that being said, a lot of them look really tired out.  This one that I have actually came with the original manual too.


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 20, 2020)

This is all great info. The one I am looking at is literally 3 hours away from home.. I'd hate to pull a trailer that far to find out the machine is not any good.  I live in Lake City Florida and don't really have any auctions around to look at, at least none that I've found...


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## Liljoebrshooter (Feb 20, 2020)

I think unless you spend quite a bit of money on a grinder, your going to get a project to work on. Remember this is a hobby forum.  If you want to hold tenths or sub tenths you better get out the check book. 
Joe


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## middle.road (Feb 20, 2020)

Driveslayer45 said:


> Thanks for the great feedback.
> 
> I'm looking at a Boyer and Shultz 6x12 for $300. After a cheap mag Chuck and vfd I'll be into it about $600, then there's tooling. Outside of a used wheel that's on it I don't think it comes with much more, if any.


Have to go over it very carefully. 
A gent I met here in the area quite awhile ago has a Boyer and Shultz. He bought w/o it being under power.
Spindle was fine, table was toast. Unfortunately it is sitting in the corner of his shop gathering dust when last I saw it.


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## 7milesup (Feb 20, 2020)

Liljoebrshooter said:


> I think unless you spend quite a bit of money on a grinder, your going to get a project to work on. Remember this is a hobby forum.  If you want to hold tenths or sub tenths you better get out the check book.
> Joe



Depends....
There are machines out there that have seen very little use but are no longer needed.   It is a matter of finding those nuggets.  If a person takes the time, good machines can be found.   I feel like my Bridgeport is a solid machine with little use.  I have been looking for one of these though for well over a year.


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## C-Bag (Feb 20, 2020)

7milesup said:


> Depends....
> There are machines out there that have seen very little use but are no longer needed.   It is a matter of finding those nuggets.  If a person takes the time, good machines can be found.   I feel like my Bridgeport is a solid machine with little use.  I have been looking for one of these though for well over a year.


Not only don't get in a rush but here on H-M there have been some incredible threads. There is an amazing array of guys on here with some incredible experience and just reading those threads made me way more experienced sounding than I was. I couldn't have run the machine myself but bringing my mag base, test indicator and my mechanic stethoscope told me a LOT along with my mechanic background. I avoided a boat anchor that if I'd not known to pull the table and look at the ways I was to the point where I was deep in tool lust and reaching for my pocketbook. So while you are searching I'd suggest looking through SG threads and boning up. Helps pass the time and definitely ignorance is not bliss if you are prone to buyers remorse. Like I am.


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## 7milesup (Feb 20, 2020)

"Tool lust'.  LOL.    I have that.


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## C-Bag (Feb 20, 2020)

Yup, we all do


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 20, 2020)

Well I've decided, I'm going tomorrow to look at it... We'll see how it goes.

Anyone have one if these, does the table just lift off?


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## Cadillac (Feb 20, 2020)

I have one the table just lifts off. Better to have 2 people for being awkward not to heavy.


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## Grandpop (Feb 20, 2020)

If you are talking about a Boyar Shultz, then yes, it lifts straight up. May have a bit of suction holding it, so slide to one end of travel and lift that side up first.

No reason to take a table off to move the grinder UNLESS the machine has rollers or balls under the table. With a normal BS lock the table down in center of stroke, crank table towards rear, place a 2x4 under the spindle, then lower the spindle onto the 2x4 so it can't bounce. All the BS that I ever saw were bolted to the base cabinet, so no danger of it coming off the base


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## mmcmdl (Feb 20, 2020)

I bought my Micromaster from a shop that bought it from the place I served my apprenticeship at . I found my tag inside the electrical box when examining the grinder . We powered it up and ran thru the feeds , then loaded it onto my trailer . It now rests in the back of the garage , unpowered still . One of these days .................!


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## DiscoDan (Feb 21, 2020)

Here is one near me in Virginia. Smallish and looks lightly used.









						Surface grinder (ideal for home machinist) - tools - by owner - sale
					

This is a small 6x12 surface grinder that is ideal for the home machinist because it runs on...



					washingtondc.craigslist.org


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## C-Bag (Feb 21, 2020)

Same design as the second one I was looking at. That is Central Machinery, not General. Harbor Freight. So even though I have a shop full of their stuff I'd be very skeptical this would be useful for precision work. The one I was looking at was the original maker from Tiawan and even had roller guides. But it's very light for a surface grinder. I talked to guy down to $500 with a new little mag Chuck and decided it was going in the wrong direction.


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## wlburton (Feb 21, 2020)

Here's another twist on this topic:  I just picked up a little Sanford bench top surface grinder for a fairly low amount of money.  The spindle had been converted to a Sopko tapered type, using 1 1/4" hole wheels and wheel adapters.  Since these are made to use 4" wheels, and no one sells a 4" wheel with a 1 1/4" hole, the ones that came with it were obviously reduced down from larger wheels.  There are enough of them that with my level of use I may never need to grind down another one.  The spindle seems good but there is visible wear on the X-axis ways and the motor seems like it might need bearings some time (it's a little noisy).  The table needs to be flattened (probably because of the wear on the ways) so I haven't ground in the new Shars 4' X 6" magnetic chuck that I bought yet.  I had never operated a surface grinder before, and to be honest I think my use will be more for aesthetic finishes than super precision.  I made a wheel dresser holder for it and quickly ground the top and bottom of it and was very satisfied with the finish that I got, considering it was my first time grinding.  I understand that most people buying surface grinders are striving for perfection and extreme accuracy, but I'm very happy that I have the chance to enter the world of surface grinders even if this one isn't perfect.  It was fairly cheap and is small enough to fit in the shop space I have available.  If I find a lot of uses for it in the future that will be the time for me to start looking for a "perfect" one.


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 21, 2020)

Ok, just got home with it. I heard no noises when it's running, it seems to run smooth.. I need to order a vfd and a mag Chuck, as well as wheels.  Any suggestions on grinding wheels? It looks like a 1.25" bore.


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## mmcmdl (Feb 21, 2020)

General purpose wheel / Norton 32A 46 or 60 , g or h . Silican carbide ( green ) for carbide . 





__





						Surface Grinding Wheels
					

Norton surface grinding wheels and segments are a universal choice for heavy, rapid stock removal and production work to precision tolerance operations. Our




					www.nortonabrasives.com


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## C-Bag (Feb 21, 2020)

Driveslayer45 said:


> Ok, just got home with it. I heard no noises when it's running, it seems to run smooth.. I need to order a vfd and a mag Chuck, as well as wheels.  Any suggestions on grinding wheels? It looks like a 1.25" bore.


Man I wish that Chevalier would have looked like that. Looks like a winner, good job.


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## OTmachine (Feb 21, 2020)

I recently bought a Boyar-Shultz 6 x 12 for $300.  It came with a mag chuck, end mill end grinding fixture, diamond dresser, 22 stones, and  a diamond wheel.  The ways are Great!  Haven’t had a chance to get it into the basement to hook it up yet though.  So far, the bearings seem to be OK.  Hasn’t had a lot of use.


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 22, 2020)

It sounds like you've gotten a hell of a deal.  Mine doesn't seem bad for $300, although it didn't come with a Chuck or tooling. I need to work on the switch as the owner bypassed it said something about old wiring. It seems to have a multi-position switch. I also need to replace the rubber dust guards, anyone have suggestions on those?

I ordered two a vfd and some wheel dressers from Amazon, and an import mag Chuck from eBay as well as a 32 and 38 wheel to get me started. 

I'm looking forward to learning how to use it


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 23, 2020)

Ok, I've pulled much if the machine down inspecting and cleaning and the only thing I found that actually concerns me is the cross feed leed screw is very badly worn. The accordian boot covering it broke and looks like it's worn the screw down to pretty sharp points in a section.

I don't have the proper guages but I think the shaft is 3/4-10 lh square thread.  Anyone know.

I was looking at McMaster but the design of this screw is weird, it's not fully threaded, only about 2/3 is then the thread just stops, not even a relief cut, with the rest of the shaft at a full 3/4.

Open to suggestions. My current thought is to get some 3/4 crs from my local hardware and see how many tools I can break and how many hours I can waste trying to cut a thread I've never cut before, over about 14" ....


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## Liljoebrshooter (Feb 23, 2020)

I am in the process of doing this exact same thing right now to the grinder I bought.
I bored the shaft out and made a bushing with the 3/4"×8tpi LH Acme thread and threaded it into the hole.
I also made the shaft last night.   I got it threaded and need to finish the other end.
You will probably be in the same situation having to make replacement parts.
Joe


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 23, 2020)

That's great. How did you measure the tpi? do you have a guage? I simply set my caliper to 1" and counted the threads between the jaws.. checking Amazon for a thread guage.. watching some videos... It does look doable


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## Liljoebrshooter (Feb 23, 2020)

A couple more pictures


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## Liljoebrshooter (Feb 23, 2020)

Here is the shaft.  Its the first Acme thread I have done.


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## Liljoebrshooter (Feb 23, 2020)

Yeah I bought a thread gauge but I first just used a ruler to measure the pitch.
I ended up buying a tap for the internal thread.  I did a lot of research about it and decided to just get the tap and be done with it.
Joe


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 23, 2020)

Oh yeah that's great. I can't tell if I need a nut, although I imagine I do. I would probably order a tap as well


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## Liljoebrshooter (Feb 23, 2020)

Threading an internal acme thread has its difficulties from what I read.  I was going to make a boring bar and try but it was another added step.
The acme taps aren't real cheap either.  I found one that looked new in the package for $50.
Joe


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 23, 2020)

So maybe McMaster has pre threaded nuts that can then be fitted..


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## Liljoebrshooter (Feb 23, 2020)

They might.  The 10tpi is a little more common.


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 23, 2020)

Ok, based on what I found for nuts and I think I'll run it the way it is for now and work on my threading skills.

I got my vfd today and wired it up. Does this sound ok? Although it's not bolted to the stand at the moment, and the stand is sitting on a pallet.. probably not the best setup.

I am expecting the mag Chuck and new wheels on Wednesday.


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## Chipper5783 (Feb 23, 2020)

Driveslayer45 said:


> Ok, I've pulled much if the machine down inspecting and cleaning and the only thing I found that actually concerns me is the cross feed leed screw is very badly worn. The accordian boot covering it broke and looks like it's worn the screw down to pretty sharp points in a section.
> 
> I don't have the proper guages but I think the shaft is 3/4-10 lh square thread.  Anyone know.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't worry too much about wear in the cross slide (at least until you have used it for a while).  The cross slide gives you the amount of shift over per pass.  For example if you are cleaning / truing / flattening a 1" wide surface and say you have a 1/2" wide wheel - then you may choose to step over by 0.05" per pass.  It really does not matter whether you step over 0.04 or 0.06 - the wear in the cross slide lead screw will not impact how flat the surface is.

If you are grinding to corners, then it would be nice to improve the cross slide - however, even all new components will still have backlash - so I suggest there is little to gain by having consistent backlash over across the entire slide.

For the fabric way covers, I used neoprene coated nylon fabric from McMasterCarr - works great.


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 23, 2020)

Thanks chipper, funny you gave that advise.. me being who I am stuck the machine back together after I connected the vfd, put an old drill press vise under the wheel and proceeded to do my first grind (cleaning up the top of the vise). I was taking between .025 - .100 step over, with .002 - .004 doc. The backlash didn't affect me at all.so at this point I'm going to reclean the top and replace the way covers., Then run it ...


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 25, 2020)

Ok, this shaft has a lot of slop in it. I'm not sure if I have the capability to fix it as I think its the housing. Anyway, I've removed two set screws but cannot figure out how to remove this shaft for a better inspection.


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## OTmachine (Feb 25, 2020)

Maybe this might help? http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=6882


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 25, 2020)

Thanks I had studied that and it didn't help


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## Grandpop (Feb 26, 2020)

driveslayer, when I brought my Boyar home, I took all of the covers off, the table off, and the cross slide off to clean the gunk out (what a mess!). Also spent a fair amount of time trying to clean out the oil lines, as half of the Bijour jets were clogged. I ended up replacing all of the jets and one fitting I broke. Make sure you have oil everywhere before you put it back together. The cross screw bellows was shredded on mine, so I found a length on McMaster for about $100 and cut it in half. Like yours mine a fair amount of wear on the ways with most of the flaking gone (put still had original oil groves), so I added new marks/pockets with end of sharp file before assembly. 

My cross screw had about .025 play when assembled, so I left it alone to wait for for another day if the rest of the grinder proves worth the trouble. That play does not affect the repeatability of the cross slide at all. In 20 years as tool & die maker I never once used the cross feed screw to dial off a large number (like 3.0500 inches) and expected it to be accurate anyway. That screw is just a guide, so don't worry about any play. Keep it clean and oiled and will last forever in home shop.

I did replace the rubber covers with new ones made from rubber sheet at McMaster. The left - right travel of the factory machine was 12.5 inches, so I spent some time with the factory stops and hand ground some material away. I now have 13" of travel, a bit easier to get the wheel completely off the chuck without hitting a hard stop when grinding the chuck.

My spindle makes some loud noise periodically (typically whenever my head is down and looking in at wheel from the side!), but for most part it is reasonably quiet. Not as quiet as it should be, so maybe some day I will take it apart, clean the old gunk out of the bearings, re-grease and assemble. For right now, I would not be without the machine. Even half worn out, it adds a level of precision that you just can't get from a lathe or mill.


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## Cadillac (Feb 26, 2020)

To remove the traverse handle take out the set screws like you have. Then take the gear off the one end. I believe it’s a tapered pin holding the gear. Once the screws are out you want to tap the shaft towards the handle. It’s a slide fit in the apron. If I remember correctly the set screw will hold the shaft like a lock so the table locks in place. I had ordered a new rack and gear from McMaster which was Almost a direct replacement except that I had to drill holes in the rack for mounting. 
 You can get most of the parts from McMaster which are near oem replacements just might take some slight modifications. I wouldn’t worry about the apron screw unless your grinding up to a edge which it will still be accurate just a pain with the backlash.


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## Bob Korves (Feb 26, 2020)

Grandpop said:


> If you are talking about a Boyar Shultz, then yes, it lifts straight up. May have a bit of suction holding it, so slide to one end of travel and lift that side up first.
> 
> No reason to take a table off to move the grinder UNLESS the machine has rollers or balls under the table. With a normal BS lock the table down in center of stroke, crank table towards rear, place a 2x4 under the spindle, then lower the spindle onto the 2x4 so it can't bounce. All the BS that I ever saw were bolted to the base cabinet, so no danger of it coming off the base


A table that is sitting on a surface grinder and held down by gravity only (many or most surface grinders) can lose that table in transport if it is not removed or secured down.  If the grinder has ball or roller bearing ways, the table and base can easily be ruined by the table bouncing up and down, creating divots in the ways.  The table can also bounce right off the machine and be lost and/or damaged beyond repair.  Take the table off of any machine where it is held on by gravity or has ball or roller ways before transporting it.


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 26, 2020)

Cadillac said:


> To remove the traverse handle take out the set screws like you have. Then take the gear off the one end. I believe it’s a tapered pin holding the gear. Once the screws are out you want to tap the shaft towards the handle. It’s a slide fit in the apron. If I remember correctly the set screw will hold the shaft like a lock so the table locks in place. I had ordered a new rack and gear from McMaster which was Almost a direct replacement except that I had to drill holes in the rack for mounting.
> You can get most of the parts from McMaster which are near oem replacements just might take some slight modifications. I wouldn’t worry about the apron screw unless your grinding up to a edge which it will still be accurate just a pain with the backlash.


So when I try to pull that shaft back towards the handle it is spring loaded. Maybe the spring might just be stuck in place and once I tap it she'll come on out?


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## Cadillac (Feb 26, 2020)

The spring on that shaft is for the operator to index the traverse handwheel for comfort. You would pull the handwheel back and index the handle to where you want and the spring puts the rack gear back in line with the rack. 
 Yes it will come out as a assembly. I replaced the bearings on that shaft so they were new figured they get the most workout traversing the table back and fourth.


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 26, 2020)

great, ty. i will work that tonight


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## MontanaLon (Feb 26, 2020)

So this showed up at a local used machine dealer.





The price is reasonable but higher than what I see on larger grinders. This one I could actually get into the basement though so it has that advantage. But I wonder what the capabilities are for my purposes.


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 27, 2020)

So after a few serious "taps" I was able to get the shaft out, discovered the slop was due to a worn shaft, about .020", caused by a plugged oil path.

After some consideration I decided to cut down the shaft, bore out the brass bushing, then cut a bronze slug to drill and bore so it fits the shaft well and press Fitbit into the original bushing. Then cut a new bronze bushing to fit the cut down, and trued shaft to replace the steel output bushing.. only thing left is to cut a steel bushing to remount the gear And drill the oil port back into the bushing ... Busy night..


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## 682bear (Feb 27, 2020)

A couple of years ago I found an old Taft-Peirce grinder for cheap... the table ways were worn, but the spindle was good.






I had the table v-ways reground at work and replaced the ball bearings that the table moves on... and had to machine a new y axis lead screw for it. It operates very smoothly now.

It is a fully manual grinder, though, and is my least favorite  machine to operate... I built a steel platform to raise it 6 inches, and it is still low enough to wear my back out when running it.

It does get the job done, though...

-Bear


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## Bob Korves (Feb 27, 2020)

MontanaLon said:


> So this showed up at a local used machine dealer.
> 
> The price is reasonable but higher than what I see on larger grinders. This one I could actually get into the basement though so it has that advantage. But I wonder what the capabilities are for my purposes.


Search for reviews of the Delta Toolmaster grinder before purchasing one.  It is not a precision surface grinder, IMO.  What do you plan to use it for?


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## projectnut (Feb 27, 2020)

Liljoebrshooter said:


> I think unless you spend quite a bit of money on a grinder, your going to get a project to work on. Remember this is a hobby forum.  If you want to hold tenths or sub tenths you better get out the check book.
> Joe



If you're patient and persevere you might get lucky and find a good machine for a reasonable price.  I looked for over 2 years before coming across a Sanford MG grinder that was in excellent condition and not too pricey.  I did have to travel about 100 miles to pick it up, but it was a nice ride on a perfect day.

In my case the owner was attempting to retire, but one of the companies he contracted to kept sending him business.  He finally decided to sell off most of the machines so he could legitimately tell the company  he could no longer provide the service.

Here's the grinder.  This is the way it looked when I picked it up.  I've had it going on 10 years.


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## JohnG (Feb 27, 2020)

I bought a Reid Bros grinder like liljoebrshooter's at a school auction.  Best $200 tool I have.  It was impossibly grubby except for the spindle bearings. Behind their labyrinth seal and wood oil wick, they were immaculate.  The cross feed screw was badly worn, and I had to turn a new one and also replace the nut.  I threaded a pair of bronze acme nuts back to back onto the steel mount.  One is screwed tight, and the other has a lock nut to adjust them for a tension fit on the screw. There's a series of tubes and channels that ends up dripping oil onto the screw in the middle of the nut.  I sharpen a lot of wood working cutters--hss, stellite, and carbide--with this grinder.


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## deakin (Feb 27, 2020)

benmychree said:


> I could mention the one that I got for free that is just like Jeff's, but that would be even meaner ---



you got me beat. my okamoto automatic grinder cost 2 cases of budweiser (cold)


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## Driveslayer45 (Feb 28, 2020)

Got my table back together with the repaired shaft and new bushings. I cleaned the oil ports and made sure the port going to the table handle was lined up.

Then a made a locking nut for the arbor since I have right hand threads on it and it's come loose a few times in my 'testing'.

It's made from 3/8 hit rolled plate with a cold rolled pin for the lock. I was nearly done when the magic smoke came from my milling machine.. guess I'm calling PM today, so ground the flats in it to engage the groove in the arbor.


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## keeena (Jun 4, 2020)

Found this Sanford 6x12 just 15min from my house a couple of weeks ago and scooped it up. I think its an MG but it doesn't specify the model on the column like projectnut's a few posts above.






Like most of your finds: this one was dirty and had quite a bit of crud and plugged oil galleries. I wanted to do a full strip and refinish, but for now I just thoroughly cleaned it, blew out the ports (shot 1" slugs out of a couple), and cleaned/stoned the ways. Everything is really smooth and motor is decent - only problem is the extremely worn cross-feed nut & leadscrew: but that's fixable.






I have yet to find a picture of one which has the full wrap-around guard. Someone hacked in a crooked opening in the guard so they could more easily operate the chuck. I milled it square so its a bit more presentable.  Should be a good addition to the shop.


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## benmychree (Jun 4, 2020)

That nut is about as worn as worn gets!


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## benmychree (Jun 4, 2020)

deakin said:


> you got me beat. my okamoto automatic grinder cost 2 cases of budweiser (cold)


I think I have you beat; I got my 6 X 18 B&S Micromaster for free, only had to go to near Fremont to pick it up.


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## keeena (Jun 4, 2020)

benmychree said:


> That nut is about as worn as worn gets!



You're not kidding! Only about half the thread is intact and crest is sharp as a razor (originally is a 0.750" 5TPI  square thread). Will probably redo in acme.


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## benmychree (Jun 4, 2020)

Yes, do it in acme, it is a good deal easier to machine both the screw and nut.  And it is stronger and has more wearing surface area.


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## 7milesup (Jun 4, 2020)

JohnG said:


> I sharpen a lot of wood working cutters--hss, stellite, and carbide--with this grinder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

What type of setup do you use to sharpen your cutters?  I bought a Bridgeport SG a while ago and would like to do the same...


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## Chuck K (Jun 4, 2020)

MrWhoopee said:


> It's a slippery slope. I thought all I needed was a lathe and a mill. And a cut-off bandsaw. And a bench grinder. And a TIG welder......
> You get the picture. If I could find a surface grinder for $300, I'd get my wallet out before they change their mind.
> 
> And yes, you'll need a mag chuck.


I have one I'll sell you for 400 with a mag chuck.


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## projectnut (Jun 4, 2020)

keeena said:


> Found this Sanford 6x12 just 15min from my house a couple of weeks ago and scooped it up. I think its an MG but it doesn't specify the model on the column like projectnut's a few posts above.
> 
> View attachment 326373
> 
> ...


Your right about the guard being modified.  Attached is a sales brochure from 1965.  Note the low section of the guard is only a few inches lower than the ends.  It may have been modified to accommodate a different style chuck.  The chuck on my MG has the factory "Sanford" label on the front and the on/off lever on the right end.  The chuck has the on/off lever on the front where it may have been difficult to access with the higher guard.


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## keeena (Jun 4, 2020)

@projectnut - thanks for posting the brochure. That is generally what I pictured it would look like stock. Kinda too bad that someone cut it. 

Nice tidy shop by the way!


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## MrWhoopee (Jun 4, 2020)

Chuck K said:


> I have one I'll sell you for 400 with a mag chuck.



Delivered?


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## middle.road (Jun 5, 2020)

There's an auction next week, west of Atlanta in Alabama. (4) hours from us.
There's three SGs from large to small - this one.
Inspection is on Monday but I'm not sure I'm up to an (8) road trip and it doesn't appear to be under power anyway.
Not sure what to make of the fact that it's strapped to pallet...


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## Grandpop (Jun 5, 2020)

We had a manual 6-12 DoAll back when I was an apprentice, that looks like 6-18 manual. Was OK grinder. As I remember the wheel head did not go up as high as the others we had (Harig, Boyar Shultz, Brown & Sharpe). Hard to see from the photos, might be obscured by the diamond dresser, but perhaps missing the table left-right travel stops?

We also had a hydraulic DoAll 10-12 x 18-24 ish wet grinder that was real workhorse. Got used most every day, and was still going strong at 30 years.

If it is cheap enough and loading fee isn't bad, a decent grinder.


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## deakin (Jun 5, 2020)

benmychree said:


> I think I have you beat; I got my 6 X 18 B&S Micromaster for free, only had to go to near Fremont to pick it up.


 
mine also came with a microvu comparator and a winslow exactomatic drill sharpener with dust filter and attachments.
i had to drive 5 miles to get them tho'

i use the grinder and winslow a fair amount. the comparator - have yet to have a need but it don't take up much space.


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## Chuck K (Jun 5, 2020)

MrWhoopee said:


> Delivered?


LOL....you're hard to please.


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## JohnG (Jun 7, 2020)

7milesup asked about cutter sharpening on a surface grinder.  This is the setup I made for woodworking shaper and router cutters.





There's a 3/4" arbor I use for 3/4" bore shaper cutters and 1 1/4" bore cutters with a sleeve.  There's a router chuck for 1/4" and 1/2" shank router cutters and 1/2" bore shaper cutters with a stub spindle.

The base has a dovetailed slide made from milled and ground 1/4" steel plate.  It's set at a slight angle so sliding 0.001" advances the depth of cut 0.0001".  I find 0.0003" to 0.0005" is a good grind.






The arbor turns in these composite bearing blocks.  It's ground for a very snug fit, and I like the action.  These aren't high precision bearings, and there is more runout in the arbor than I'd want to grind metalworking cutters; but it works well for this.  I've since added an extra brake on the arbor.






Mouldings are a big part of my woodworking.  When I got this grinder working, I erased years of embarassing, haphazard sharpening on some of these.






The curved details on this little round table are done with small diameter, very sharp steel cutters.  They cut delicate parts with minimum cutting force, and they get in and out quickly on the concave edge cuts.   This will be ready to varnish in a couple days.


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## DavidR8 (Jun 7, 2020)

JohnG said:


> 7milesup asked about cutter sharpening on a surface grinder. This is the setup I made for woodworking shaper and router cutters.
> 
> View attachment 326634
> 
> ...



That is some beautiful work John, truly gorgeous. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jericho (Oct 31, 2020)

middle.road said:


> Have to go over it very carefully.
> A gent I met here in the area quite awhile ago has a Boyer and Shultz. He bought w/o it being under power.
> Spindle was fine, table was toast. Unfortunately it is sitting in the corner of his shop gathering dust when last I saw it.



There seems to be few parting out the machines. I have 612 with no guard , no oil pump, no intake dust chute and a 618 with no covers for the motor side of the upright .Not every part is interchangeable year to year either. Also missing some stops. Would be nice to buy cheap since they will eventually go for 2 cents a pound to the scrap yard. Saw a guy selling one the other day that had been drop during shipment and bent lift components maybe broke riser. Wish I'd got to it a few minutes earlier. It sold for scrap . prices. Nothing that can't be fab with a lot of time.


middle.road said:


> Have to go over it very carefully.
> A gent I met here in the area quite awhile ago has a Boyer and Shultz. He bought w/o it being under power.
> Spindle was fine, table was toast. Unfortunately it is sitting in the corner of his shop gathering dust when last I saw it.


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## sdelivery (Nov 25, 2020)

Liljoebrshooter said:


> Here is what happened to me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Reid's are are good surface grinder. Generally the cast iron units are superior to the cast iron units mounted on a sheet metal base.
The latter come apart into more easily moved pieces though.


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