# Aluminum Meat Mallet



## tredding (Jun 15, 2022)

I made one in high school, about 1965. My sisters and daughters have used it and would like one for Christmas. So, as a first project, I plan to make ten of them. I have a 7X14 lathe which should manage the handle, though the taper may be tedious to make. I have a verticle mill that can easily handle the shape, and drilling and tapping for the handle.  But I don't recall, now, how I made the strike pattern for the ends of the hammer. Is there a "V" milling bit?

Recapturing high school machining skills is fun, at least I think it will be.

All guidance will be greatly appreciated.


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## mmcmdl (Jun 15, 2022)

Angle cutter on an arbor or just grind up a tool and use a flycutter .


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## markba633csi (Jun 15, 2022)

I'm thinking maybe a flycutter with a bit ground to shape?
Ooop Dave got it first

The mallets I've seen have pyramids, so you'd do two sets of cuts at 90 degrees to each other


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## mmcmdl (Jun 15, 2022)

Yep Mark , I think woodchucker was asking about a flat knurl yesterday . The fly cutter would be the easiest I think . Being aluminum , shouldn't have any issues .


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jun 15, 2022)

I have a bunch of 90deg endmills. What size do you need? Let me know and I'll send you one in the post


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## mmcmdl (Jun 15, 2022)

More than 1 way to skin a cat . Tilt the head on the mill if possible . No special tooling needed .


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## tredding (Jun 15, 2022)

markba633csi said:


> I'm thinking maybe a flycutter with a bit ground to shape?
> Ooop Dave got it first
> 
> The mallets I've seen have pyramids, so you'd do two sets of cuts at 90 degrees to each other


Right. pyramids.  I just added another photo to show the pyramid pattern on the opposite face of the hammerhead.


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## ErichKeane (Jun 15, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> More than 1 way to skin a cat . Tilt the head on the mill if possible . No special tooling needed .


Absolutely this, tipping the head is perfect here.  The 90 degree cutters have the problem of not cutting at the 'center' and sometimes leaving a poor finish there.  If you're willing to do the math as far as offset up/side/etc, just putting it in the vise at a 45 degree angle works in 2 setups.


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## tredding (Jun 15, 2022)

markba633csi said:


> I'm thinking maybe a flycutter with a bit ground to shape?
> Ooop Dave got it first
> 
> The mallets I've seen have pyramids, so you'd do two sets of cuts at 90 degrees to each other


Yes, one side is straight ridges and the other side pyramids.  I just posted another image with a gauge laid up againts the head with the pyramids.


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## woodchucker (Jun 15, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> Yep Mark , I think woodchucker was asking about a flat knurl yesterday . The fly cutter would be the easiest I think . Being aluminum , shouldn't have any issues .


not me... you got me and some other member mixed up..  Is that why you never get me the stuff I am looking for... you been shipping it elsewhere?


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## tredding (Jun 15, 2022)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> I have a bunch of 90deg endmills. What size do you need? Let me know and I'll send you one in the post


Great offer.  Thank you.  But I am a true newby.  How would I know what size? I have yet to unpack the R-8 Collet set.

11pc. Precision R-8 Collet Set .0005" Precision Grade 6 Lbs. 10 Oz. USPS Reg Rate A


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## ErichKeane (Jun 15, 2022)

So based on the new photo, it looks like those are 60 degree teeth.  At that point, a ground single point tool in a shaper/fly cutter, or a 60 degree double-angle cutter would work: 






						Double Angle Chamfer Milling Cutter 5/16 dia X 60 degree MariTool
					






					www.maritool.com


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## tredding (Jun 15, 2022)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> I have a bunch of 90deg endmills. What size do you need? Let me know and I'll send you one in the post


Again that is a generous offer.  It is likely I should buy some endmills. I believe the 90° would work.  But to be precise, I think the angle is near 60°. But using an angled endmill seems simpler than a flycutter, or tilting the head, or setting an angle on a vise.


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## tredding (Jun 15, 2022)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> I have a bunch of 90deg endmills. What size do you need? Let me know and I'll send you one in the post


Thank you all for the flood of help.  I have now purchased a chamfering 60° bit and a chamfering endmill 60°.  I will enjoy experiencing both and see which way to go as I create ten of these meat-mallet heads.  Now to study how I might do the taper. It is 3.25" long and changes in diameter from 750 to 500.


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## ErichKeane (Jun 15, 2022)

With those measurements, the angle looks to be roughly 4.5 degrees total?  So ~2.25 degrees  on each side?  A bit odd of one, but I'm guessing the taper attachment/compound was just set to 'convenient' and 'looks nice' at the time, rather than a specific angle.


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## tredding (Jun 15, 2022)

ErichKeane said:


> With those measurements, the angle looks to be roughly 4.5 degrees total?  So ~2.25 degrees  on each side?  A bit odd of one, but I'm guessing the taper attachment/compound was just set to 'convenient' and 'looks nice' at the time, rather than a specific angle.


Agreed.  Back in high school, I am sure I was just demonstrating the ability to do a taper.  My guess is, that the lathe had a taper fixture that cared for the angle.  But now I get to do it with a 7X14 lathe.  I am already thinking about a new, better lathe.


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## pontiac428 (Jun 15, 2022)

For those of us in shop class that made it to the 3rd year, the tenderizer mallet was a big-time favorite project.  Our build was for a 90 degree cut, made by tilting the head of the mill to 45 and cutting with a normal flat-bottomed end mill (high school shop is not the place to ask for fancy end mills).  It was a fun project that made for some smooth-chewing abalone or schnitzel...


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## tredding (Jun 15, 2022)

pontiac428 said:


> For those of us in shop class that made it to the 3rd year, the tenderizer mallet was a big-time favorite project.  Our build was for a 90 degree cut, made by tilting the head of the mill to 45 and cutting with a normal flat-bottomed end mill (high school shop is not the place to ask for fancy end mills).  It was a fun project that made for some smooth-chewing abalone or schnitzel...


Yes, I was big on diving for abalone and the wife loved it for schnitzel during and after we were assigned to Germany.  Now my five daughters want one, each,  as do a number of goddaughters and close friends.

My next problem, now, is how to manage the tapper.  I am still looking for the best approach with a 7X14 lathe.


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## pontiac428 (Jun 15, 2022)

tredding said:


> My next problem, now, is how to manage the tapper.  I am still looking for the best approach with a 7X14 lathe.



I think your best bet with the taper is to machine it in two parts using your compound.  Cut one part as far as travel allows, then re-set the carriage and tool and cut the second part.  If you have 4" of compound travel, then you can do a 8" taper in two steps (more or less).  If you botch the join between steps, you can cut a little decorative ring where they touch in the middle of the taper.  I mean to say it's not a precision taper, it's just a draft between two diameters, so you don't have much to lose by trying, and if it works, you win.


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## tredding (Jun 15, 2022)

pontiac428 said:


> I think your best bet with the taper is to machine it in two parts using your compound.  Cut one part as far as travel allows, then re-set the carriage and tool and cut the second part.  If you have 4" of compound travel, then you can do a 8" taper in two steps (more or less).  If you botch the join between steps, you can cut a little decorative ring where they touch in the middle of the taper.  I mean to say it's not a precision taper, it's just a draft between two diameters, so you don't have much to lose by trying, and if it works, you win.


Right.  The taper is from 750 to 500 over a length of 3.5 inches. I like your idea and think I might be able to do the full 3.5 inches with one setup.  That would be very good if I could. The plan, for now, is to knurl the handle, make the thread on the other end, flip the piece, then set the angle for the taper to cut to a depth of 250 over and a distance of 3.5 inches.  That should allow me to have the knurled end in support and make for a very deliberate and successful effort.

I am certainly glad this group is here.


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## NCjeeper (Jun 15, 2022)

Looks just like the one we had to make in college machine shop class. I think my mom still has it.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jun 15, 2022)

I'd turn the taper between centers and offset your tailstock. It's a 1:28 taper, so relatively shallow and you'll be able to do it in one go using the carriage. Leave a bit of straight shaft at the fat end so you can hold on to that to turn off the center, either flat or with a ball turner. I'd turn the threads for the head at the other end first, then cut the taper.


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## tredding (Aug 22, 2022)

tredding said:


> I made one in high school, about 1965. My sisters and daughters have used it and would like one for Christmas. So, as a first project, I plan to make ten of them. I have a 7X14 lathe which should manage the handle, though the taper may be tedious to make. I have a verticle mill that can easily handle the shape, and drilling and tapping for the handle.  But I don't recall, now, how I made the strike pattern for the ends of the hammer. Is there a "V" milling bit?
> 
> Recapturing high school machining skills is fun, at least I think it will be.
> 
> All guidance will be greatly appreciated.





	

		
			
		

		
	
I am slowly making progress with a 7X14 lathe.  This is my progress so far.  Following a suggestion here, I was able to make a handle with a taper.  Thank you, guys, for all your suggestions. Next, I will drill the hole for the handle and tap it for an M10 bolt on the end of the handle.  Then I will cut the two faces of the mallet.  Wish me luck.


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## K30 (Aug 22, 2022)

Better red loctite that sucker!  With my luck I could just see taking out a window while I was trying to make chicken fried steak.


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## tredding (Aug 22, 2022)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> I'd turn the taper between centers and offset your tailstock. It's a 1:28 taper, so relatively shallow and you'll be able to do it in one go using the carriage. Leave a bit of straight shaft at the fat end so you can hold on to that to turn off the center, either flat or with a ball turner. I'd turn the threads for the head at the other end first, then cut the taper.


I used the compound rest for this effort.  It limited me to about 2 1/2 inches. I may follow your suggestion next. My small cheap lathe does not have a calibrated way to offset the tailstock. I am about ready to spend a bit more money for a better lathe. I think I want a crossfeed and the ability to align the tailstock properly.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Aug 22, 2022)

I've done that before too, it's just a pain if you have a taper longer than your compound travel. If you want a specific offset to turn a taper, you first work out the angle you want, then do some trig to figure out how much you need to offset your tailstock. Then use a dial indicator on a mag base to move the tailstock that distance. If you leave the dial indicator in place, you can set it back to your original zero which will get you most of the way there. Bigger and better does make some things easier for sure, but that handle looks fantastic so you're clearly doing good work with what you have!


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## pontiac428 (Aug 22, 2022)

The photo may be helping, but those knurls look fantastic for a 7x14 lathe.  Nice job!


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## tredding (Sep 7, 2022)

I am in the process of making seven of these meat mallets.  Five daughters, granddaughter, and daughter-in-law. During the first attempt to make the pyramids I broke a 1/4 60° carbide chamfering bit. Maybe I was turning it too fast and not keeping it cool enough. I got another bit and took it slow. It took nearly four hours to carefully cut the waffle on one end, and two hours to cut the curves on the other.  I have a PM-728VT mill.  What settings should I be using? Speed and depth of cut.  I have been taking .01 cuts but would like to go deeper and make fewer passes.  All recommendations and discussions would be appreciated.


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## tredding (Sep 7, 2022)

ErichKeane said:


> So based on the new photo, it looks like those are 60 degree teeth.  At that point, a ground single point tool in a shaper/fly cutter, or a 60 degree double-angle cutter would work:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Erich, thank you for your suggestion.  I did not know enough to appreciate the genius of your comment/suggestion.  Now that I have done one mallet head with the chamfering bit, involving many slight passes, maybe I should try the 60° fly cutter?  It might make making the face considerably less time-consuming. I have the DRO on the PM-728VT so the mill should be easy to accurately control.  Again, thanks for the suggestion. Terry - W6LMJ


pontiac428 said:


> I think your best bet with the taper is to machine it in two parts using your compound.  Cut one part as far as travel allows, then re-set the carriage and tool and cut the second part.  If you have 4" of compound travel, then you can do a 8" taper in two steps (more or less).  If you botch the join between steps, you can cut a little decorative ring where they touch in the middle of the taper.  I mean to say it's not a precision taper, it's just a draft between two diameters, so you don't have much to lose by trying, and if it works, you win.


My final approach was to cut a 2 1/2" taper. The wife and other ladies actually prefer the shorter taper and longer grip on the handle.


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## NCjeeper (Sep 7, 2022)

When we made ours for our class project we used the K&T horizontal mill to cut the mallet heads. A horizontal cutter made quick work of it.


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## mmcmdl (Sep 7, 2022)

tredding said:


> The wife and other ladies actually prefer the shorter taper and longer grip on the handle.


Hm..........................................TMI ! 

Looking good though !  I found a crab mallet the other day I made back in jr. high school way back when . Crude to say the least , but I guess it would still crack a crab . ( if I could afford them these days )


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## homebrewed (Sep 8, 2022)

I've cut 90 degree V-grooves on my benchtop mill using a carbide-tipped router bit and had problems when the groove depth went up.  The faces being cut were wide enough to make the mill work fairly hard, and it didn't like it.....unless I used very small DOC's, which took forever.  Sounds familiar, huh.

I switched to doing step-milling with different-sized flat-bottom end mills and only used the V-shaped router bit near the end to finish up the grooves.  That sped things up a lot, but complicated the setup because I had to determine how deep I could go with the end mills.  Simple trig does it. 

One of the problems with the V shaped router bit (and countersink bits) is the straight cutting edge, so both sides of the groove are cut at once.  As the length of the faces increases, the cutting load increaes as well.  Starting with a bigger DOC, then decreasing it as you progress, also would speed things up (some).  A spiral-cut countersink could make a difference but they don't appear to exist.  Probably not easy to make.

I think the cutting forces would be greatly reduced if one could tilt the work or column then advance a standard flat-bottomed end mill in a way that uses the spiral-cut sides of the EM.  Hard to visualize how it could easily be done with the column tilted but fairly straightforward if the work is tilted.

If you have a slitting saw you also could use that.  You'd have to rotate the piece 180 degrees to complete the Vees.  That alone favors the use of an end mill, but it has the advantage of not having to turn the entire volume of the Vee into swarf.


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## homebrewed (Sep 8, 2022)

I have attached a spreadsheet (WARNING:  untested) that should calculate the steps needed to rough-cut a Vee profile using a standard flat-bottomed end mill.  It allows for different sizes of end mills, included angle, end mil DOC and the DOC for the final finishing pass.  It also approximates the number of passes needed per depth increment.  The latter information will be helpful if using an end mill that is substantially smaller than the starting width of the Vee, to help the user determine if they want to go to the trouble of doing it that way or not!

If users want a specific depth they will have to back-calculate what the top width of the Vee needs to be.


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## tredding (Sep 8, 2022)

Thank you for taking the time to do this. It is starting to appear there is no way to make the cuts to depth fast.  It takes time. I also have a side-cutting 60° chamfering tool that I will try. Heading towards a learning curve.  Danger ahead.  Thanks again. Terry - W6LMJ


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## tredding (Sep 8, 2022)

homebrewed said:


> I've cut 90 degree V-grooves on my benchtop mill using a carbide-tipped router bit and had problems when the groove depth went up.  The faces being cut were wide enough to make the mill work fairly hard, and it didn't like it.....unless I used very small DOC's, which took forever.  Sounds familiar, huh.
> 
> I switched to doing step-milling with different-sized flat-bottom end mills and only used the V-shaped router bit near the end to finish up the grooves.  That sped things up a lot, but complicated the setup because I had to determine how deep I could go with the end mills.  Simple trig does it.
> 
> ...


I have a 60° slitting saw/chamfering bit, which I plan to try.  Thank you for your very helpful comments.  Terry - W6LMJ


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## homebrewed (Sep 8, 2022)

homebrewed said:


> I have attached a spreadsheet (WARNING:  untested) that should calculate the steps needed to rough-cut a Vee profile using a standard flat-bottomed end mill.  It allows for different sizes of end mills, included angle, end mil DOC and the DOC for the final finishing pass.  It also approximates the number of passes needed per depth increment.  The latter information will be helpful if using an end mill that is substantially smaller than the starting width of the Vee, to help the user determine if they want to go to the trouble of doing it that way or not!
> 
> If users want a specific depth they will have to back-calculate what the top width of the Vee needs to be.


If there's enough interest (TBD) it wouldn't be too difficult to add another variable parameter, the amount of overlap between passes, to more-accurately predict the number of passes per Z step.  Not so sure about the actual step-over coordinates because the number per Z step will vary, depending on Z.


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## tredding (Sep 8, 2022)

homebrewed said:


> If there's enough interest (TBD) it wouldn't be too difficult to add another variable parameter, the amount of overlap between passes, to more-accurately predict the number of passes per Z step.  Not so sure about the actual step-over coordinates because the number per Z step will vary, depending on Z.


Overlap? To duplicate the head of the meat mallet, I set the distance between cuts to the width of the original mallet head.  I took a very direct approach. Having determined the chamfer needed to be 60° I bought the chamfering tool, mounted it in the collet, and used the DRO to measure the distance by literally placing the bit in the existing cut and noting the distance between cuts, The image below is an early setup, before clamping in the vise, to learn how to do it.  I might add, that the bit in the image is carbide and I broke it trying to be too aggressive making early cuts.  I switched to a cheap HSS bit and have more than six hours of cutting aluminum with it.  It seems to be holding up well.  But I have slowed the mill down to about 700 RPM and have been making much shallower cuts with a slow feed rate.  I have a power feed on the mill but have not discovered how to measure the feed rate, other than trial and error. Terry - W6LMJ


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## homebrewed (Sep 8, 2022)

tredding said:


> Overlap?


I was referring to the stepwise method of roughing out a Vee shape as outlined by my spreadsheet.  It has nothing to do with the spacing of the Vees themselves.


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## tredding (Sep 12, 2022)

As many may recall my project is to recreate a meat mallet that I made in high school.  This was to be a re-learning project to reacquaint me with machining and operating a home machine shop.

I bought a 7X14 mini-lathe and successfully made a couple of handles. Working with a 3/4" aluminum rod gave me a chance to become familiar with the lathe as I turned, threaded, tapered, and knurled the mallet handles.

I bought a PM-728VT mill, and then I made a meat hammerhead and that turned out well. With Christmas four months away I decided the next step would be to produce about seven more meat mallets. The first took about 30 hours of learning with about 20 hours of machining.  I am hoping to reduce the time invested to about five hours of machining, each. Along the way, I ordered a TM-1236 lathe which should make short work of the meat mallet handles.

I added the table power feed and plan to add a power feed to the column to make changing bits easier. I have however run into a problem. Drilling and tapping the mallet head seemed perfect for the first one. Centered and perpendicular to the head.  The handle looked like it was machined after screwing it into the mallet head (-. However, I have not been able to duplicate that precision during the subsequent production. None of the subsequent drilled and taped holes are precise. The handles tilt. I feel I could have done better with a hand drill.
I used the center indicator to check the alignment of the mill, ensuring the vise is square and the column moves precisely vertically as it is raised and lowered, ensuring it is square to the table. I used a square mounted in the vise to give me about four inches of vertical to measure. I am about 0.002 over four inches on all axis. The error continues to be a puzzle. The first head came out perfect.  However, all the rest (seven in all plus about four tests and tapped holes) did not.
One mistake I may have made is drilling centering holes.  I did seven mallet head blanks one after the other.  This means after drilling the centering hole, I unclamped the piece and drilled the next.  I worry that the centering holes actually serve to guide the tape drill to one side or another disturbing the precision. But I did a few tests where I drilled the centering hole, and replaced the centering bit with the tap drill, but ended with a similar error.

Again all suggestions are greatly appreciated.


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## WobblyHand (Sep 12, 2022)

Heic files are Apple specific, can you please change the file type?  Can't view the pictures.


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## tredding (Sep 12, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Heic files are Apple specific, can you please change the file type?  Can't view the pictures.


Sure.  I was wondering why they did not show.  Thanks for letting me know.


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## Boswell (Sep 12, 2022)

You should be able to re-center on the drilled hole. To avoid having to do that, If I am going to have to drill multiple holes (and not use the CNC capabilities), I dry to do all operations one hole at a time.  Pilot; Drill; Tap.  then move on to the next hole. This guarantees perfect alignment.


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## tredding (Sep 12, 2022)

Boswell said:


> You should be able to re-center on the drilled hole. To avoid having to do that, If I am going to have to drill multiple holes (and not use the CNC capabilities), I dry to do all operations one hole at a time.  Pilot; Drill; Tap.  then move on to the next hole. This guarantees perfect alignment.


Thank you for the comment.  My thoughts exactly. I did two test holes with the center drill, then drill and tap.  I still have the imprecision. I had a grandson put a mower away and he hit the power feed on the end of the mill hard enough to knock it loose.  That is one of the reasons I went back through the process of testing the alignment of the bed and vertical head.  All seems correct. But now I have ordered a tramming tool to more precisely measure the alignment of the mill. We will eventually get it figured out.


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## homebrewed (Sep 12, 2022)

If your problem was caused by knocking the mill out of tram the tilt should always have the same orientation.  

Since you did each operation step on all of your mallet heads before moving on to the next op, it may be difficult to figure out how each head was installed in your vise, the most reliable way to check that theory out is to drill and tap a test piece and see how one of your handles looks when you screw it into the test piece.

If that is indeed the problem you may not need to re-make the heads.  If it's flat, use the opposite side.  The "bad" hole can be plugged with a short threaded piece that's glued in place then milled flat (after tram has been restored  ) .


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## tredding (Sep 12, 2022)

homebrewed said:


> If your problem was caused by knocking the mill out of tram the tilt should always have the same orientation.
> 
> Since you did each operation step on all of your mallet heads before moving on to the next op, it may be difficult to figure out how each head was installed in your vise, the most reliable way to check that theory out is to drill and tap a test piece and see how one of your handles looks when you screw it into the test piece.
> 
> If that is indeed the problem you may not need to re-make the heads.  If it's flat, use the opposite side.  The "bad" hole can be plugged with a short threaded piece that's glued in place then milled flat (after tram has been restored  ) .


All good thoughts and ideas.  I believe the mill is out of tram. I believe Blondihacks, among others, have covered in detail how to test and correct a mill's tram.


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## tredding (Sep 12, 2022)

I tried to use the Center Indicator to evaluate the tram of my PM-728VT. The evidence the mill has lost tram is its inability to drill precision vertical hole in aluminum. I believe it was knocked out of tram when it was struck by a small mower being put away in the back of the shop. The mower was pushed past the mill striking the power feed hard enough for it to come loose at an angle.

Lesson learned, once the PM-1236 arrives the lathe and the mill will be aligned along a single wall and no longer stick out into a path through the shop.

 I realigned the power feed and it appears to work well. Once I suspected the mill was out of tram I attempted to use the Center Indicator to measure by how much. First, I made sure there was no variance on the x, y, and z-axis of the vise. Then I clamped a precision machinist square in the vise to extend the vertical axis. I am about to follow the method shown in this video 



. I also watched this multi-method video 



. One of the subsequent videos I watched made a strong case for building a column indicator that provides two indicators, 



.

I believe I am .001 out of alignment over about 12 inches.  That does not seem like much.  But I will correct the tram and see if I am able to drill a precision hole.


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## tredding (Sep 14, 2022)

I tried to use the Center Indicator to evaluate the tram of my PM-728VT. The evidence the mill has lost tram is its inability to drill precision vertical hole in aluminum. I believe it was knocked out of tram when it was struck by a small mower being put away in the back of the shop. The mower was pushed past the mill striking the power feed hard enough for it to come loose at an angle.

Lesson learned, once the PM-1236 arrives the lathe and the mill will be aligned along a single wall and no longer stick out into a path through the shop.

 I realigned the power feed and it appears to work well. Once I suspected the mill was out of tram I attempted us the Center Indicator to measure by how much. First, I made sure there was no variance on the x, y, and z-axis of the vise. Then I clamped a precision machinist square in the vise to extend the vertical axis. I am about to follow the method shown in this video 



. I also watched this multi-method video 



. One of the subsequent video I watched made a strong case for building a column indicator which provides two  gauges, 



.


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## homebrewed (Sep 14, 2022)

Measure the angle between one of your mallet heads and handle.  It it's inconsistent with your tram measurements there's something else going on. 

If that's not accurate enough, another sanity check would be to install one of them in your vise and indicate off the handle as you raise the spindle.


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## jwmelvin (Sep 14, 2022)

homebrewed said:


> Measure the angle between one of your mallet heads and handle. It it's inconsistent with your tram measurements there's something else going on.



I agree. No way are the head threads that crooked. You tapped in the mill, right? Do you have a thread relief next to the flange on the handle?


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## tredding (Sep 14, 2022)

homebrewed said:


> Measure the angle between one of your mallet heads and handle.  It it's inconsistent with your tram measurements there's something else going on.
> 
> If that's not accurate enough, another sanity check would be to install one of them in your vise and indicate off the handle as you raise the spindle.


Good idea.  I have an angle tool for doing just that.  A few pictures are attached.  The error in the verticle seems to be higher than indicated by my tram measurements. I seem to be seeing a 2° error in the verticle.


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## tredding (Sep 14, 2022)

jwmelvin said:


> I agree. No way are the head threads that crooked. You tapped in the mill, right? Do you have a thread relief next to the flange on the handle?


Thread relief? When I screw the handle to the head I can see a gap on one side indicating the handle is not square to the head.  When I screw the handle into the first mallet head I made, it is completely flush. This is what set me on the trail of the mill being out of tram.


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## tredding (Sep 14, 2022)

jwmelvin said:


> I agree. No way are the head threads that crooked. You tapped in the mill, right? Do you have a thread relief next to the flange on the handle?


I agree with both of you.  The error seems to be much larger than the error in the tram.  It is likely a combination of things.  I drilled the hole to be tapped with the mill.  It should be verticle.  But I actually tapped by hand.  Could that be the problem?  Should I be using a tap-follower on the mill?


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## WobblyHand (Sep 14, 2022)

tredding said:


> Should I be using a tap-follower on the mill?


Yes.  Or at least if you want it straight!  This could easily be the issue.


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## jwmelvin (Sep 14, 2022)

tredding said:


> Thread relief? When I screw the handle to the head I can see a gap on one side indicating the handle is not square to the head.  When I screw the handle into the first mallet head I made, it is completely flush. This is what set me on the trail of the mill being out of tram.


I mean a groove so that the threads end in the groove, not right against the handle's shoulder.

Oh - no tap follower? yes, there's the likely culprit. You can tap with the mill, or at least use the tap follower. If you are worried about going too deep with the mill, you can rotate the spindle by hand or just a short time under power, to get the first few threads started straight. For a blind hole, I'd probably use the tap follower.


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## homebrewed (Sep 14, 2022)

tredding said:


> I agree with both of you.  The error seems to be much larger than the error in the tram.  It is likely a combination of things.  I drilled the hole to be tapped with the mill.  It should be verticle.  But I actually tapped by hand.  Could that be the problem?  Should I be using a tap-follower on the mill?


Whenever possilble I use a tap follower when tapping.  I've had far too many poor to just failed results when attempting to tap entirely by hand.  In my experience, as the size of the tap goes down the problem gets worse and worse.  Softer materials like aluminum and plastic are particularly bad in this regard, too easy to get a crooked start, or messed-up threads at the top of the hole.


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## tq60 (Sep 14, 2022)

Whenever we are doing work in the mill we hand tap right after hole drilled.

Swapp drill bit with tap and go.

Seldom power tap as we usually not in a hurry and less snapping when by hand compared to power.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


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## tredding (Sep 15, 2022)

Very good. That is the plan. Center, drill, then tap.  I have also trammed the mill tonight.  Once I got the hang of it, it was easy.  Pictures attached. I now have a proper tramming tool with two indicators.  However, given the spread of this tool and the fact that I could have the dial face to the front when measuring, this seemed the more accurate approach.


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## tredding (Sep 19, 2022)

Thanks, everybody. The help, suggestions, and guidance have paid off. I am now producing meat mallet heads with perfectly perpendicular threads for the handles.  At least, I am unable to detect an error.  I am very pleased.


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## tredding (Sep 21, 2022)

I am getting ready to make the meat mallet heads.  You may recall I drilled out several head blanks while trying to make the holes to be taped perpendicular.  I would like to correct the holes.  Currently they are 8mm.  I can drill them out to 10mm.  I am hoping when I do that they will now come out perpendicular.  I wonder if I should use something other than a drill to make the 10mm hole.  Maybe a "plunge" 10mm bit would be better than a drill bit?


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## jwmelvin (Sep 21, 2022)

Do you have a boring head?

An end mill would work if the desired size.


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## tredding (Sep 21, 2022)

No, I do not have a boring head.  Maybe that is what I call a plunge mill bit? Luckily, I can make the hole bigger and I will if I can correct the slant on the current holes.  Thank you for letting me know an end mill will work.


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## tredding (Sep 23, 2022)

A boring head?  I had to look that up and watch a few videos to be sure I knew what one was.  I am familiar with boring bits and tools for the lathe but have not used one with a mill.  But now I know a little bit more than I did.  I am guessing I will use an end mill or some type of milling tool to slowly enlarge the 10mm tapped holes that are at a slant, that need to be straightened. I have a few practice blanks that have the slanted 10mm tapped holes.  I will try taking them up a size by drilling them out and re-tapping. I am guessing 12mm would be large enough.


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## jwmelvin (Sep 23, 2022)

tredding said:


> A boring head?  I had to look that up and watch a few videos to be sure I knew what one was.  I am familiar with boring bits and tools for the lathe but have not used one with a mill.  But now I know a little bit more than I did.  I am guessing I will use an end mill or some type of milling tool to slowly enlarge the 10mm tapped holes that are at a slant, that need to be straightened. I have a few practice blanks that have the slanted 10mm tapped holes.  I will try taking them up a size by drilling them out and re-tapping. I am guessing 12mm would be large enough.


Yup, a boring head is a super useful tool for the mill. It allows one to create holes that are round, on location, and of a desired size. Drill bits will not do any of those things. Reamers can make a hole mostly round and on size, but follow the location of a pilot hole. And a boring head is the way to make large holes. Since the cut can be very small in a given pass, they can achieve a lot on even lighter machines. It's definitely what I would use for your job. I bought a used Criterion on eBay, but inexpensive imports are readily available, and I imagine will work quite well. They may be a little more difficult to get a very precise diameter (e.g., for a bearing fit) but I don't know.

An end mill is at least stiffer than a drill, so will do a better job of straightening the hole; a carbide end mill to a greater extent than one made of HSS.

You could also do it by boring on the lathe in a 4-jaw chuck.


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## pontiac428 (Sep 23, 2022)

jwmelvin said:


> I bought a used Criterion on eBay, but inexpensive imports are readily available, and I imagine will work quite well. They may be a little more difficult to get a very precise diameter (e.g., for a bearing fit) but I don't know.


The China import boring heads should be avoided if you value maintaining low blood pressure.  Other fantastic imports exist from Japan, France, Germany, and so on.  I couldn't stomach the cost of a proper manual mill version of the Criterion, so I "settled" for a Yuasa, that did not break the bank.  It's a hundred times better than the two China specials that I'd been fiddlef*king with.  If you can hold .005 with a Chinese boring head, it's because you fozzy welded all the moving parts together.  At full slop, I'd be surprised if you can hit .015, and none of that is remotely good enough for a light press-fit bearing.  I'm not passing judgement on anyone or their equipment, I'm simply saying to stay well away from cheap boring heads because it's totally futile.  Plan to buy a used, midrange boring head from any other part of the globe, and you'll have a much nicer experience.


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## jwmelvin (Sep 23, 2022)

pontiac428 said:


> The China import boring heads should be avoided if you value maintaining low blood pressure.


Thank you for the correction, I appreciated and enjoyed your description of having used one.


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## ErichKeane (Sep 23, 2022)

pontiac428 said:


> The China import boring heads should be avoided if you value maintaining low blood pressure.  Other fantastic imports exist from Japan, France, Germany, and so on.  I couldn't stomach the cost of a proper manual mill version of the Criterion, so I "settled" for a Yuasa, that did not break the bank.  It's a hundred times better than the two China specials that I'd been fiddlef*king with.  If you can hold .005 with a Chinese boring head, it's because you fozzy welded all the moving parts together.  At full slop, I'd be surprised if you can hit .015, and none of that is remotely good enough for a light press-fit bearing.  I'm not passing judgement on anyone or their equipment, I'm simply saying to stay well away from cheap boring heads because it's totally futile.  Plan to buy a used, midrange boring head from any other part of the globe, and you'll have a much nicer experience.


I second that.  I had a junky boring head at one point that came with a pile of tools, and was trying to figure out why people liked them, it seemed unusable.  I picked up a second-hand criterion, and figured it out, it is perfect.

ONE thing to note: The boring bar sets that are NOT inserts require a ton of grinding to get the relief angles right.  I couldn't figure out at first why my reasonably-expensive set of boring bars were making a mess of the holes.  Turns out, they don't have a proper relief ground on them from the factory!  

I spent a while trying to fix that, but just gave up and picked up a couple of insert-boring-bars (Basically this set: https://www.amazon.com/Shank-Indexable-Boring-Free-Insert/dp/B011JGF9NG), which work fantastically.


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## tredding (Sep 23, 2022)

jwmelvin said:


> Yup, a boring head is a super useful tool for the mill. It allows one to create holes that are round, on location, and of a desired size. Drill bits will not do any of those things. Reamers can make a hole mostly round and on size, but follow the location of a pilot hole. And a boring head is the way to make large holes. Since the cut can be very small in a given pass, they can achieve a lot on even lighter machines. It's definitely what I would use for your job. I bought a used Criterion on eBay, but inexpensive imports are readily available, and I imagine will work quite well. They may be a little more difficult to get a very precise diameter (e.g., for a bearing fit) but I don't know.
> 
> An end mill is at least stiffer than a drill, so will do a better job of straightening the hole; a carbide end mill to a greater extent than one made of HSS.
> 
> You could also do it by boring on the lathe in a 4-jaw chuck.


Great advice.  Exactly what I needed to hear.  Now I am learning how to order the right size.  I am literally correcting a threaded hole that is not perpendicular.  A larger drill or even a mill would tend to follow the original hole.  The boring head should be able to make a larger hole perfectly perpendicular.

The current hole is tapped for 10mm.  I am guessing I could bore a 27/64" and tap 12mm and fix the problem.  Thank you for the help.  Terry - W6LMJ


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## tredding (Sep 23, 2022)

ErichKeane said:


> I second that.  I had a junky boring head at one point that came with a pile of tools, and was trying to figure out why people liked them, it seemed unusable.  I picked up a second-hand criterion, and figured it out, it is perfect.
> 
> ONE thing to note: The boring bar sets that are NOT inserts require a ton of grinding to get the relief angles right.  I couldn't figure out at first why my reasonably-expensive set of boring bars were making a mess of the holes.  Turns out, they don't have a proper relief ground on them from the factory!
> 
> I spent a while trying to fix that, but just gave up and picked up a couple of insert-boring-bars (Basically this set: https://www.amazon.com/Shank-Indexable-Boring-Free-Insert/dp/B011JGF9NG), which work fantastically.


I guess the starting point is to identify a usable boring head. Then one can add the boring bars. Thank you for the suggestion on the bars.  I am thinking of a 2" boring head vs a 3" boring head only because my current task is a fairly small hole. I am thinking I want to reach 3/8" in the future.  Learning is such fun.  Terry - W6LMJ


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