# To buy or not to buy (Atlas 101.28910)



## TexasPyro (Jan 28, 2020)

I'm new to the forum, been reading as much as possible. There is a ton of knowledge on this forum, I'd like some help if yall don't mind. I had a nice thread going the other day that was unfortunately lost when the site went down. Thanks to those who contributed, it was a warm welcome to the board.

Thanks to This Old Tony and Abom79 I've found a new addiction. I'm new to this and have been looking for a 12'x28-40" lathe for a few weeks now. I've read hundred of forum posts, watched countless hours of YouTube and have decided now is the time to buy a lathe. Seems like everyone in my area values their lathe as much as their first born.

I found what looks to be a nice Atlas 101.28910 but seems to be priced high. I have spoken to the seller, he (like all the others I've spoken with) has very little to say aside from its in great shape, ways are perfect, price is firm.... That seems to be the story I get from everyone, their lathes are all pristine examples of what they're selling and wont budge on price and are very reluctant to actually give much info out over the phone.

My only real concern (aside from value) is if this lathe will suite my needs? I have no intention of turning anything large, this machine seems to be the right fit, but have heard complaints about the flat ways, etc.. Anyone have any thoughts or ideas?

EDIT: Forgot to add his asking price, $2250

I appreciate any help yall may have and thank you in advance.


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## mmcmdl (Jan 28, 2020)

What's his asking price ? I have a similar undermount 3996 up here , they go $1200-$1400 similarly tooled . Cab has a 3996 also and seems to like it .


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## TexasPyro (Jan 28, 2020)

I completely forgot to put that in there, hes asking $2250


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## mmcmdl (Jan 28, 2020)

That's high as heck . I have pics of mine down below on the for sale site , although it's not officially for sale yet . I'll be asking $1200 and most likely it'll go for $1000 on CL . I think he's shooting for the stars at $2250 .


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## TexasPyro (Jan 28, 2020)

That's what I thought as well, seems to be everyones attituded I talk to around here. They're all super proud of their machines and are asking for their bottom dollar in their add. He said he wont come off the price $1. I've been looking for weeks, twice a day on all of the sale threads and sites and haven't found many deals around here.


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## mmcmdl (Jan 28, 2020)

Being proud and realistic are 2 different things .


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## Stonebriar (Jan 28, 2020)

I am just south of you in Granbury and I had the same problem trying to buy used equipment in 2013 when I started.  I wound up buying a new lathe from PM for not much more than the clapped out over priced stuff for sale here.  You might eventually find something reasonable dont forget to look on facebook marketpalce also.  Good luck


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## TexasPyro (Jan 28, 2020)

Stonebriar said:


> I am just south of you in Granbury and I had the same problem trying to buy used equipment in 2013 when I started.  I wound up buying a new lathe from PM for not much more than the clapped out over priced stuff for sale here.  You might eventually find something reasonable dont forget to look on facebook marketpalce also.  Good luck



Its been pretty wild to say the least, I figured I'd find one right away. I've been searching Facebook as well, its difficult because I have to do it from a computer, I dont use any of their apps. I've been on the PM site nearly every day, the PM-1130 is looking more and more appealing as the days wear on. Ideally I'd like to stay around $2500 for a machine and some tooling. With a PM, I'll be knocking on $3500-$4k before I really even get started.


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## wrat (Jan 28, 2020)

When there's a question to buy or not to buy, the answer is always "buy".

$2250 is high for the industrial rust belt.

But it's not real high for the Plains States where these things hardly exist.  $1500 without gearbox is fairly common when they appear at all.


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## JPMacG (Jan 28, 2020)

Around here that price puts you in the ballpark of a bigger, more capable lathe, like an old Clausing.   If you can deal with the size and weight, that would be preferable to an Atlas.   But as mentioned, price is regional.  This area (Southeastern PA) is a former manufacturing region, so old industrial machines are plentiful.

If you have not found it already,  Lyle Peterson has an excellent Youtube series on how to buy a used Atlas.  On Youtube he goes by MrPete222.


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## mickri (Jan 28, 2020)

Have you tried using search tempest?  https://www.searchtempest.com/  It allows you to easily search large areas on CL.  When I was looking I expanded my search to 400 miles from my house.  I looked for over a year before I found my lathe only a couple of miles from my house.  Also look for machine auctions.   And estate sales where the heirs are just trying to get rid of grandpa's junk.  I found that people were asking top dollar for lathes typically used by hobby machinists whereas big old iron sold for scrap value or less.

The amount of tooling that comes with the lathe is a big factor in its value.  Acquiring all of those seemingly little bits and pieces needed to actually make something can easily exceed the cost of the lathe.

Have fun with your search.  And welcome to the madness.


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## Aaron_W (Jan 28, 2020)

There is a similar Atlas for sale on the local CL asking $1450, the ad has been up for more than a month. Condition, tooling and location all playing a part in pricing. I've usually see 10-12" Atlas lathes closer to $1000 around here (California).


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## TexasPyro (Jan 28, 2020)

Thanks for the responses everyone, I really appreciate it. I wish the guy would budge, I think we both could agree on a fair deal. Ill keep my eye out for something decent. 

Searchtempest is new to me, I had been looking for an effective way to search Craigslist. I will give that a go. 

I found Mrpete shortly after locating this lathe, he seem to know his stuff!

MMCMDL, I wish you were closer, we'd definitely have a conversation about that machine.


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## wa5cab (Jan 28, 2020)

There are actually about eight groups of Atlas built metal-working lathes that were made.  The first three are 6" swing, the fourth is 9", the fifth 10" and the last thre 12". Some were only badged Atlas or Craftsman and some were badged both.  The average price in a given part of the country would generally increase from the first to the last except that the 10" and the first 12" are in about the same general price range.  So the first decision to make would be size.  and the second the group.  Within each group except for the 6" groups, there are 4 or later 2 different bed lengths.  And several different models.  In any case, you can't just ask what is a fair price for for an Atlas 12" because condition, tooling and accessories aside, a 12" x 24" change gear bench model is inherently worth less than a 12" x 36" QCGB and Slip Clutch equipped Cabinet model.  I would in most parts of the country other than the North East say the former should bring, assuming it isn't a rust bucket, $1000 to $1500 and the latter $1500 to $2000.  Then you would have to expect to add $50 to $250 for each significant accessory over and above the basic lathe.

The flat bed versus V-bed argument usually boils down to which one someone has unless you are the seller and trying to sell a 12" or smaller V-bed lathe.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 28, 2020)

you're going to have to travel and move fast








						Atinon 36" lathe, Heavy mill, planar &more - tools - by owner - sale
					

Atinon 36" 6 jaw chuck metal lathe for gunsmithing..cuemaking etc. Taper bar for cuemaking. This...



					austin.craigslist.org
				




not QCGB but reasonable price








						South Bend Lathe
					

1949 South Bend Metal Lathe. Model C9-10JR Cat. No. 615-AC 9” swing 48” bed. Ways in fair to good shape 12 speed flat belt (double speed primary drive with 3 speed cone pulley and backgears) ~3/4”...



					austin.craigslist.org
				




a much more capable lathe for not much more money








						Colchester Master 13" Lathe
					

Guys this is the Colchester Master 13" lathe that I took apart cleaned up primer and painted down to each section.This is a serious lathe at a very good price so do your research,watch some Youtubes...



					houston.craigslist.org
				




that was just from a quick look. Sellers round here are VERY proud of their wares - I used to joke that used price here is new + 10%, but it's really not that much of a joke. But if you're patient and quick, you can score good deals. I got my Grizzly 6x26 knee mill and HF 4x6 bandsaw for $1000 from Austin for example.


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## Aaron_W (Jan 28, 2020)

TexasPyro said:


> MMCMDL, I wish you were closer, we'd definitely have a conversation about that machine.



If lathes are that hard to find near you, it might be worth looking into shipping costs to get from mmcmdl to you. Even picking up a lathe yourself has costs for gas and time. If shipping was $500 that might be a decent option for you and much cheaper than the one in the first post. I've heard Fastenal is a relatively inexpensive way to ship machines.


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## ub27Rocks (Jan 28, 2020)

Re: the Colchester: Personally I would stay away from anything used that has 'taken apart and painted' in the details. You will not know what you are getting, it might be good, it might be a mess. And looking closer at the pictures it is a mess, lots of missing pieces/handles and not very clear photos of the surfaces that matter. It has the chuck key in chuck (aka not a machinist) and is sitting on wooden skids. I strongly suspect it is not actually a bargain once it arrives.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 28, 2020)

it's just an example. Caveat emptor and all that


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## TexasPyro (Jan 28, 2020)

*mattthemuppet2 *I've seen those and have actually been trying to get a hold of the guy with the Colchester, he wont respond via email. The way his add reads, that doesn't surprise me. Sounds like he expected someone to just show up and buy it site unseen. The South Bend is slightly older than I prefer, to my VERY amateur eyes it looks like it needs lots of massaging. I saw the Atinon earlier and sent a message to the seller, I was able to find very little information on it. Does anyone know much about them? I asked the seller to send me more pictures of it if he can.

As for traveling or shipping, I'm open to doing what I have to. The problem with shipping that has slowed me down a bit seems to be the recurring theme around here "Never buy a machine without seeing it in person". Every seller I've talked to talks as if their machine is brand new and by all accounts, perfect. We all know the truth, I just want to be shot straight.  If MMCMDL is interested in shipping that thing, lets talk.


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## TexasPyro (Jan 28, 2020)

I found some info on that Atinon, looks like its a Yangzhou TY-C0632 or the same or very similar to a Grizzly G4016. I've emailed him, waiting on a reply. I've thought about offering him $2k for the lathe, mill, and band saw.


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## MikeInOr (Jan 28, 2020)

I got really lucky (from a craigslist add someone posted here) and picked up my SouthBend 13" lathe for $1000.  It is much nicer than my Atlas 12" lathe... but my Atlas doesn't have the quick change gear box... or any threading gears at all.  It was a 7 hour round trip to pick up the SouthBend lathe and took me a while to figure out how to unload it... but it was definitely worth all the effort!

$2250 is too much in my opinion!







My biggest disappointment in my Atlas 12" was not being able to single point thread on it.  Adding a quick change gear box to my Atlas would cost almost what I paid for the SouthBend.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 29, 2020)

to be honest that Atinon and mill are unlikely to still be for sale. Fingers crossed they are, but when you see stuff like that you need to jump on it and go buy it. Worry about the details later  Even $2.5-3k for all that would be a good deal, especially if there is tooling thrown in. If you do get the chance to see it, take a couple of pocket fulls of bills.


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## TexasPyro (Jan 29, 2020)

Mike, how do you like that Southbend? I've seen a couple come up for sale, there is a decent one for sale that is about the same kind of trip for me, 8hrs or so. People seem quite proud of those as well.

Matt, I emailed that guy about the Atinon yesterday within a couple of hours of that listing being posted. He responded last night with a phone number, I've texted him but no response. He's only available during the week, I'll have to figure out a way to get free and down there. Hopefully someone else hasn't pounced on it yet.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 29, 2020)

I got my wishing hat on for you 

Had a similar situation with my mill - saw it on CL, emailed the guy and heard nothing back. I thought it had gone, so moped around for a bit, then get a text from him asking when I want to come get it. He held it for me until the weekend when I hired a drop deck trailer from Sunbelt and picked it up. He'd just bought a Tormach and needed the space in his garage. Usually if you come across as genuine and don't appear to be a flake (and if the seller doesn't appear to be either), people will usually be pretty accomodating if it means they make the sale.


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## TexasPyro (Jan 29, 2020)

I appreciate it! I try to be as genuine as I can when replying to ads. Just about everyone I've spoken with so far has seemed put off or bothered by me trying to buy their machine. I've done a lot of deals and sold a fair a mount on Craigslist and Ebay. I try to treat those buyers as I would for any other client I cater to in my professional life. Oh well, hopefully this guy gets back to me this morning.

There is one heck of a deal on a machine up in the northeast. There is more tooling included in the deal than I have space for! I've asked if he'd be interested in shipping it. Fingers crossed


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 29, 2020)

that's pretty much all we can do, right? If the Austin one falls through, mmcmdl's lathe (that the one you're referring to?) would be worth pursuing. Check out the Fastenal ship to store service - I sent a small Atlas 618 crated up from WA to MD for $200, so a large Atlas may be $500 or so.


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## MikeInOr (Jan 29, 2020)

TexasPyro said:


> Mike, how do you like that Southbend? I've seen a couple come up for sale, there is a decent one for sale that is about the same kind of trip for me, 8hrs or so. People seem quite proud of those as well.



TP, I love my SouthBend!  Everything is bulkier and tighter on the SouthBend than the Atlas even though the Atlas has almost no time at all on it and the SouthBend spent a good amount of it's life in a High School shop.  It is easier to make accurate small parts on the SouthBend than it is to make them on the Atlas.  The extra bulk and rigidity of the SB makes me feel like I am fighting the lathe less. My SB 13 has a powered lead screw which my Atlas does not.  My SB also has power cross feed which is not an option on an Atlas... I love having power cross feed, it make a much more consistent finish than moving the cross slide manually.  I would definitely recommend a SouthBend 13 (In good condition) over an Atlas 12.  When I was new that (In good Condition) was the difficult part for me to figure out.

The SB is triple or more the weight of the Atlas which made it a lot more difficult to move.  That extra weight and mass is what makes it a much nicer lathe though.  I can brute force move the Atlas without a ton of difficulty... there is no brute force moving the SouthBend.


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## wa5cab (Jan 30, 2020)

Mike,

All Atlas lathes made since 1932 except for a few 9" and 10" and Craftsman 12" sold stripped down without threading capabilities in the mid and late 1930's have power on the lead screw.   Most sold since 1938 and all sold since 1946 have power cross feed.  Most sold since 1950 have QCGB's.  The SB 13 is a different class machine than the late Atlas 12, and new probably sold for 5x to 10X or more than what the Atlas did.  What model number is your Atlas 12?

Apparently your 101.07403 (which is technically a Craftsman 12", not an Atlas) has no gears installed to run the lead screw.  Which explains why it has no powered longitudinal nor cross feed.  The complete lathe came with both functions working.


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## mmcmdl (Jan 30, 2020)

The 3996 is currently ( no pun intended ) 440 3 phase . I have to re-wire it down to 220 and hook up the VFD to it in April and get her under power . I'm not in any hurry so it's not going anywhere soon , and it's too darn cold out in the garage .


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## TexasPyro (Jan 30, 2020)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> to be honest that Atinon and mill are unlikely to still be for sale. Fingers crossed they are, but when you see stuff like that you need to jump on it and go buy it. Worry about the details later  Even $2.5-3k for all that would be a good deal, especially if there is tooling thrown in. If you do get the chance to see it, take a couple of pocket fulls of bills.



Seller emailed me back yesterday afternoon. We agreed on $2k for the lathe and the mill provided they're in working order upon inspection. He doesnt know anything about them, sounds like he is selling for a widow. I sent him $100 to consider them sold, he's only available during the week and only until 2pm, its going to be next week before I can get down there. I figure if I get down there and the stuff is garbage, I'm only out $100 and some time. I'm not sure I'll take the mill, I've got to figure out where I can put it. Good problem to have I suppose. 

I really appreciate everyone's feedback, being the new guy asking a lot of what I can imagine to be extremely repetitive questions can get old. Lots of other forums I'm a part of aren't so friendly, for that I thank yall.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 30, 2020)

dayum, $2000 for all of that is a fantastic price. Fingers'n'toes crossed!


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## TexasPyro (Feb 1, 2020)

Welp, she followed me home last night. I ended up getting the lathe and a decent band saw for $1200. The lathe didn't have many tools included, apparently they were lost in the transfer from the estate to the seller. It does have a nice looking 6 jaw chuck. The lathe is definitely used but seems to be in great shape, the ways show no visible wear. The previous owner used it to make pool cue parts. I'll snap some pics when I get it in place and cleaned up. I posted the same message in the Grizzly thread. I guess it'd be appropriate to move the conversation over there.  I really appreciate the help and warm welcome to the forum.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Feb 1, 2020)

woohoo, congratulations! We need pics! That's a fabulous price for this neck of the woods. How come you didn't get the mill too?


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## MikeInOr (Feb 1, 2020)

I would love to see some pics!


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## TexasPyro (Feb 1, 2020)

Thanks! I would have loved to grab that mill too. At the end of the day, it was just too big for my space. For now I'm going to be forced to find a larger table top machine. The mill he had for sale looked to be in good shape, it'll make someone a nice machine. He said he had 9 people lined up behind me for it. When I get the lathe unloaded and in its home I'll snap a few pics.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Feb 1, 2020)

that's a shame. I would have tried to create more space, but having to share a (narrow) 2 car garage with the wife's car, I know where you're coming from.


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## TexasPyro (Feb 2, 2020)

Got it in place over the weekend, had to move my compressor and run some new air lines. It took some time to get it as level as I could with a nice 24" level. Unfortunately I don't have an engineers level to get it dead nuts on. I was able to play around with it and make some chips. I've got a lot of tooling to order. I did what I could with the one piece of HSS I very crudely ground. It turns aluminum relaly nicely. As This Old Tony says, "aluminum makes everyone look like a Rockstar". I turned down some aluminum rod, at this point its turning a .014 taper, big on the tail end and small on the headstock end. Gotta do some investigating and figure that one out.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Feb 2, 2020)

very nice! Set-tru 6 jaw too, that's worth about what you paid for the lathe  I shouldn't worry about taper right now, most likely that's due to deflection (cutter pushing the work away from it) from the long work stick out and possibly less than ideal cutter.

Purists will string me from a tree for saying this, but a SCLCR cutter and matching CCGT inserts will have you cutting like a pro in no time and for little money. 

Looks like you got a fabulous deal, well done.


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## wa5cab (Feb 3, 2020)

As a general rule of thumb, any time that the work piece length is more than about 3 times the diameter, one should cut a center and use either a dead or better a live center in the tailstock.  If there is some practical reason that you cannot do that, make a spring cut every other or every third pass, and finish with two or more spring cuts.  That is assuming that you have the tailstock back set correctly adjusted.


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