# Lathe dog question



## ARC-170 (Sep 17, 2020)

I'm in need of a few lathe dogs for my Atlas Craftsman 101.07403 (12x18). I have a few bent-tail ones, but they are not big enough. Does it matter what brand I get? What about sizes? Should I get them sized as close as possible to whatever I'm turning, or is buying a few that are every 1/2" apart (for example, 1.5", 2", 2.5", etc) just fine? Saw a lot of used Armstrong, Williams and new Chinese imports.

I need to turn a piece of stock from 1.25" to 1.063", in case you have a burning desire to know what I need at the moment, but I thought I'd get a few more while I'm at it.


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## darkzero (Sep 17, 2020)

As far as brand, since I use them infrequently, I ended up just getting imports from Grizzly since they were cheap. Much cheaper than anywhere I could find at the time, I bought every size they had (1/2" to 3"). Made in India IIRC but I've never had a problem with them.

I wanted to buy some older USA name brand ones but they always go for too much money, well more than I want to pay. I did buy one Armstrong but only cause I thought it was unique looking & it didn't cost much. I never really use it though.


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## ARC-170 (Sep 17, 2020)

Yeah, Grizzly seems to be the best deal. These don't seem like an item where old American is an advantage, but I could be wrong. Thought I'd ask and see.

The Ebay'ers want top dollar, but some of them have sets of assorted sizes for reasonable prices. I plan to make offers and see what they say.


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## pontiac428 (Sep 17, 2020)

Looking for assorted sets of used dogs is probably the best way to go, in terms of quality and economy.  The right dog to use is the one that can hold the work.  It's also nice to have some low profile dogs for working closer to the headstock, and some clamp style dogs for things that are other than round.


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## Ulma Doctor (Sep 17, 2020)

i often make dogs when i don't have the size i need, its not a brain surgery task.

a simple piece of stock with a bored hole and a bolt to drive and a bolt to tighten to the stock


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## benmychree (Sep 17, 2020)

Clamp dogs will work on nearly any shape work and have a large range of size.


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## dewbane (Sep 18, 2020)

Somebody recently told me that my faceplate wasn't a drive plate on my Grizzly G0602. I ordered a new faceplate, as the original was super janky anyway, and I clamped the original to my mill and went to work. I dedicated one of the slots to dogs, and machined it to the right width to hold the leg on various sizes of the Grizzly dogs I bought.  Yee haw, now I gots me a super cool drive plate that fits these here Grizzly dogs. It even says "D R I V  E   PL  AT  E" in official looking stampy letters.

Yeah, then I mounted the plate and the drive center, and put a dog on a workpiece. The legs are nowhere remotely close to touching the plate.

I stamped my stampy letters for nothin', and I am still missing the point somehow.

Hey, sorry for hijacking your Atlas/Craftman dog thread. The truth is a scotch turned into four, and I am under the affluence of inkhahol, which has probably had a negative impact on my judgment.


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## turnitupper (Sep 18, 2020)

Need a shorter centre?
John.


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## pontiac428 (Sep 18, 2020)

Yeah, ideally the point of the center should be flush with the face of the drive plate.  There's no hard rule, it's just that this way conserves stock while guaranteeing the dogs engage the drive slot.


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## darkzero (Sep 18, 2020)

I ran into that problem before. My spindle is MT5 & the lathe came with a MT5 to MT3 adapter. And these adapters for the spindle are shorter & deeper so a typical MT "drill" adapter in the same size usually won't do the same thing. So one day I thought why the need for the adapter, just so you can use the same size center in the spindle & tail stock?

So I bought a MT5 center. I had no idea that this was gonna happen. Stuck out way too far for my drive plate. Ended up selling the MT5 center.


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## ericc (Sep 18, 2020)

A ghetto dog (or should I say junkyard dog) will often do in a pinch.  I have a bunch of them.


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## wa5cab (Sep 18, 2020)

Face Plates & Drive Plates:  A face plate sized for a machine will generally be larger than a drive plate sized for the same machine.  The face plate will normally have narrower slots and none of the slots go all of the way out to the OD of the plate.  They are used to hold odd shaped stock or castings that you can't hold in a 3-jaw or 4-jaw chuck for one reason or another.  The drive plate will normally also have four slots but they would be wider than the slots in the properly sized face plate and one of them will normally be cut all of the way to the plate OD.  That is the slot that you normally put the dog tail into.  The reason is so that you can dismount the work piece with dog still attached by backing out the tail stock ram only maybe a quarter inch.  So it saves time and doesn't disturb the set up.

If you walk into a machine tool vendor's store and ask for a 3MT to 2MT reducer, what the counter guy/gal will hand you unless you are a little more specific will be about 6" long and will put the 2MT center much too far out for the dog leg to fit the drive plate.  With their 10" and 12" lathes, Atlas supplied a 3MT to 2MT adapter  that fit almost flush with the end of the spindle nose.  And they supplied two 2MT dead centers.  When you installed the adapter and center, the point of the center was about where it would have been had the spindle taper been 2MT.  That is what you need to use with a drive plate.  A 3MT dead center will stick farther out relative to the drive plate and might or might not work.


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## Bi11Hudson (Sep 18, 2020)

Dogs, an interesting subject. I used to have Lady and Sassy. Lady was Mom's pet and Sassy was Dad's little girl. (Scotty) She lived to 15, a ripe old age for dogs. I never allowed them into the shop, feared they would pick up chips in their pads.
Oh, wrong dogs. . .  Sorry, I got distracted. Rascal is fussing at something in the back yard as I type.

You're asking after lathe dogs. I have a number of dogs of varying sizes and shapes But for much work, albeit small, I just make what I need at the time. Sometimes it's not true round or some odd shape that is too "fragile" to mount to the face-plate. All that's needed is a couple of pieces of re-bar or key stock or whatever is handy. And some machine screws. Something to clamp up what you're working on. And a screw as the drive pin. 

I use a face-plate as the drive plate most times. It will fit a 7/16 bolt as the drive pin. Although I usually don't get that big. Also, the face-plate gives me a place to hang counter-weights to balance things a bit. I will concede I don't do fancy work like a lot of folks on here. But home-made anything is my forte'. I'd much rather make what I need when I need it. Just my nature. . . 

.


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## mickri (Sep 19, 2020)

Don't have any dogs. This is my work around to turn something between centers.  I put a dead center in the headstock and a live center in the tailstock.  If the work will fit in my ER32 collets I used the collets in my collet chuck to drive the work.  If the works is bigger than 3/4" I use my 6" 4 jaw chuck to drive the work.  Cram the work piece as tight as I can between the centers and then carefully tighten the 4 jaw so as to not throw the work piece off the centers.  Loosen the tailstock center so that it will spin.

I have not tried this and have no idea if it would work.  If I can't use the above for whatever reason I have thought that I would weld/braze/silver solder a bolt/rod to the work.  The bolt/rod would fit in the drive plate and drive the work.  I can think of several variations on this.


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## pontiac428 (Sep 19, 2020)

One thing about commercial dogs is the castings are smooth and the edges rounded.  That means potentially banging a knuckle vs. sticking your hand in a blender with the duct tape and bent up wire hanger method.  If you watch the estate sale or "machinist lots" on eBay, dogs turn up (pun intended) for a good value now and again.  They're meant to be quick and easy to use, and should be confidence-inspiring, secure, and safe.


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## NC Rick (Sep 19, 2020)

Sorry! I'm trying to explain why he needs the tool right on center.


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## Tozguy (Sep 19, 2020)

Bi11Hudson said:


> I just make what I need at the time.


Same here.


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## wa5cab (Sep 19, 2020)

In this "business", a jury rig is seldom acceptable and definitely not if there is any risk of bodily harm.


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## ARC-170 (Sep 20, 2020)

Ebay has a 6" dia drive plate for around $80 shipped. Is that a reasonable price?

The MOLO does not have a listing for the chuck or any drive plates. Any reason why? I did find L5-365 for a face plate, that is 8-1/2" in dia. $85 shipped. Is that reasonable?

I didn't learn to use lathe dogs with a plate. I just set the bent arm in one of the jaw slots with a dead center in the chuck and a live center in the tail stock. The drive plates are the same diameter as the check anyway.

I bought 1-1/4", 1-1/2" and 2" lathe dogs from McMaster-Carr.


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