# Sharpening Stone Recommendations



## rfdes (Mar 15, 2015)

I'm sure that this topic has been beat to a pulp but I'm confused and need some recommendations.
Presently, I own no sharpening stone (other than my bench grinder) and am looking for a best choice for a beginner.  I'm simply looking for something for sharpening hand tools and honing lathe tool bits, etc.  I've searched Ebay and there are so many types (or so it seems) that I wouldn't know a good stone from something I would see in my backyard garden.  Your insite would be most appreciated.  

Thanks
Jim
Largo, Fl.


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## RJSakowski (Mar 15, 2015)

I assume you are talking about hand stones.  Hard and soft Arkansas stones are the old standbys.  For carbide, you can't beat a diamond hone.  
The thing to remember about sharpening is the finer the grit, the sharper the edge.  A carborundum stone traditionally used by woodworkers is rather coarse but cuts most steels fairly fast.  Hard Arkansas stones were traditionally used to sharpen surgical scalpels and have an extremely fine grit.  It takes forever to remove and metal though and only used to put a micro edge on the tool. 
I do my rough profiling on the bench grinder and the final honing with an Arkansas stone for tool steel.  For carbide, I use a diamond wheel for rough profiling and a diamond hone for the final hone.  
I am not an expert at this and I am sure that some of the knife makers in the group can offer better advice.  This just works for me.


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## John Hasler (Mar 15, 2015)

RJSakowski said:


> I assume you are talking about hand stones.  Hard and soft Arkansas stones are the old standbys.  For carbide, you can't beat a diamond hone.
> The thing to remember about sharpening is the finer the grit, the sharper the edge.  A carborundum stone traditionally used by woodworkers is rather coarse but cuts most steels fairly fast.  Hard Arkansas stones were traditionally used to sharpen surgical scalpels and have an extremely fine grit.  It takes forever to remove and metal though and only used to put a micro edge on the tool.
> I do my rough profiling on the bench grinder and the final honing with an Arkansas stone for tool steel.  For carbide, I use a diamond wheel for rough profiling and a diamond hone for the final hone.
> I am not an expert at this and I am sure that some of the knife makers in the group can offer better advice.  This just works for me.


There seem to be millions of Arkansas stones available, though, labeled "hard", "soft", "black", "translucent", etc, all rather expensive but with no hint as to what the grit size is or how hard they are.


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## ericc (Mar 15, 2015)

I have not been able to figure out how to use Arkansas stones.  Some are from garage sales, and there are a lot of people who really like them.  For sharpening tools, a good synthetic carborundum stone is just great.  A couple of tips can be helpful.  Select a good stone, like a Norton.  Don't load it up else it will not cut; the best way to avoid that is to use a honing fluid.  Keep the stone flat unless you want a junk stone that is only good for removing random metal.  Use a magnifier to verify a sharpened edge; using a finger is fiddly and unreliable.  A good stone can be used to sharpen knives, lathe tools, and even small drills.  The small drills will goof up a good flat stone pretty quickly, so use the junk garage sale stones purchased for less than a dollar for that.


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## RJSakowski (Mar 15, 2015)

That is certainly true, John.  I have two sets; one I bought locally and the other was given to me by a friend who visited the Arkansas quarry.  The former set works but is definitely not the quality of the latter.  The latter hard stone has a surface that is almost reflective.  Years ago, when I was on a sharpen binge, I used to look at my edges with a 50X microscope and sharpen so no defects were noticeable on my fish fillet knives.  I'm off that kick now, thankfully.  But the hard stone would definitely give that edge.

There is also a significant difference amongst the various diamond hones offered.  Both in uniformity of grit and quantity of diamond chips used.  I would suggest as a starting point, checking into some of the companies selling quality woodworking tools.  Keen edges are the pot-o-gold that woodworkers strive for. Try www.rockler.com or leevalley.com.  Grizzly also offers a fairly good selection of sharpening systems although I am somewhat leery of taking everything they say with a grain of salt.

I have also seen some promising things regarding some of the Japanese sharpening systems although I have no personal experience with them.


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## RJSakowski (Mar 15, 2015)

ericc said:


> I have not been able to figure out how to use Arkansas stones.  Some are from garage sales, and there are a lot of people who really like them.  For sharpening tools, a good synthetic carborundum stone is just great.  A couple of tips can be helpful.  Select a good stone, like a Norton.  Don't load it up else it will not cut; the best way to avoid that is to use a honing fluid.  Keep the stone flat unless you want a junk stone that is only good for removing random metal.  Use a magnifier to verify a sharpened edge; using a finger is fiddly and unreliable.  A good stone can be used to sharpen knives, lathe tools, and even small drills.  The small drills will goof up a good flat stone pretty quickly, so use the junk garage sale stones purchased for less than a dollar for that.


I use the edge of the stone for small items like drill bits to avoid the grooving.  I have also used a silicon carbide stone to resurface worn stones, both to flatten and renew the cutting capability.  I use a coarser grit than the stone I am resurfacing.


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## yendor (Mar 15, 2015)

One other thing that works great for Chisels, Knives, Plane Blades and the like but not so good for Lathe Tools bits is a cutout of Granite and various grades of Wet/Dry Sandpaper.

Spritz the granite with a light spray of water which will hold the Wet/Dry paper in place then hone away. You can change grits by simply swapping out the Wet/Dry paper. Use the same spritz of water to lube the Wet/Dry Paper. Razor sharp edges are easy.
The granite surface provides a surface that will be flatter than any misc old garage sale stone and will stay that way forever since you never actually wear the surface.

For Lathe Tools the embedded Diamond Plates made by DMT are awesome.
Here's a link to a set of pocket size, that is easy to use to add the final hone to an HSS Tool bit.
http://www.zoro.com/i/G2314873/?utm...hopping_Feed&gclid=CI-m5sjeqsQCFYc6aQodcgoAIA


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 15, 2015)

I would suggest a selection of stones and hones.  there are echos of others sentiments here,
The reason being that every metal and edge will require a couple different stones or diamond grits to make it sharp.
if you are doing mainly steel and no carbide, you can get away with carborundum stones for the heavy removal and finish off with Hard Arkansas stones.
if you're going to sharpen carbide, you'll need diamond sharpeners.
i'm partial also to the ceramic sharpening stones for steels.


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## John Hasler (Mar 15, 2015)

Ulma Doctor said:


> I would suggest a selection of stones and hones.  there are echos of others sentiments here,
> The reason being that every metal and edge will require a couple different stones or diamond grits to make it sharp.
> if you are doing mainly steel and no carbide, you can get away with carborundum stones for the heavy removal and finish off with Hard Arkansas stones.
> if you're going to sharpen carbide, you'll need diamond sharpeners.
> i'm partial also to the ceramic sharpening stones for steels.


Could you tell us more about the ceramic stones?


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## John Hasler (Mar 15, 2015)

yendor said:


> One other thing that works great for Chisels, Knives, Plane Blades and the like but not so good for Lathe Tools bits is a cutout of Granite and various grades of Wet/Dry Sandpaper.
> 
> Spritz the granite with a light spray of water which will hold the Wet/Dry paper in place then hone away. You can change grits by simply swapping out the Wet/Dry paper. Use the same spritz of water to lube the Wet/Dry Paper. Razor sharp edges are easy.
> The granite surface provides a surface that will be flatter than any misc old garage sale stone and will stay that way forever since you never actually wear the surface.
> ...


I've used paper but I found that I got a rounded edge.


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 15, 2015)

John Hasler said:


> Could you tell us more about the ceramic stones?



Hi John,
I don't know their composition, but the are advertized as ceramic.
completely by accident, i found them on Ebay(  http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC167-Smith...222?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23489c0a86)

they are 1000 grit and have proven to be flat, cheap and effective from my experience.
they may shatter upon dropping it on any hard surface, i surmise.

I have used ceramic rods (crock sticks) for many years and can produce shaving sharp edges, i just recently found the flat stones.
there are rods also from different sources and manufacturers.

i use them dry,  and with oil or water for different materials.
i dedicate a stone for each method as to not cross contaminate stones (just a pet peeve/OCD thing for me)


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## RJSakowski (Mar 15, 2015)

John Hasler said:


> I've used paper but I found that I got a rounded edge.


I use paper on stone for polishing surfaces as well.  I don't use it for cutting edges for the reason John posted.  You will not get the paper lifting if it is glued down but you have to be careful to squeegee any excess adhesive out or it will leaver bumps and ridges. How the pieece is held is important too.  I find that keeping my support low and inside the edge reduces the rounding.


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## JR49 (Mar 15, 2015)

Ulma Doctor said:


> I don't know their composition, but the are advertized as ceramic.
> completely by accident, i found them on Ebay( http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC167-Smith...222?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23489c0a86)



Thanks, Ulma Doctor, just ordered a few of those stones for myself. Once received, will let everyone know what I think. JR49


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## Baithog (Mar 15, 2015)

For metal cutting tools you can probably get by with a fine wheel on the grinder, coupled with a soft and a hard Arkansas stones. Use a honing oil for lubrication. You can later round out the stones with a surgical black or surgical white stone if you plan to also do plane irons, chisels and knives. Some say the whites are finer than the black. Arkansas stones are mined in Arkansas and have more of a polishing action than cutting. They hold their flatness well, but there is no good relationship between grade and grit size

The water Stone people are forever arguing with the arkansas people. Water stones aren't really suitable for tool bits because of the need to develop the slurry. They also require frequent truing because they wear quickly. They do do a right fine job on wood cutting tools and knives once you have the knack. Grit sizes range from 220 to 8000.

I have arkansas stones, but mostly use the scary sharp system. This is the wet/dry paper on a flat surface method. For crude work, using a film of water between the paper and stone will suffice. The guys doing precision woodwork (accuracy to 0.001) use a low tack spray adhesive. Grit size goes from gravel to 2000. I use 220 for most lathe bits and down to 2000 on my block planes. I finish the plane irons and chisels on a razor hone, about 14000 grit equivalent. My franz swaty hone is purported to be a ceramic composition.

I do have a fine diamond hone that I use to touch up my cut off tools. I can touch them up without removing them from the holder. 

Now for carbide sharpening, diamond is the only way to go,


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## Alan Douglas (Mar 15, 2015)

> I'm sure that this topic has been beat to a pulp


Actually it has hardly been touched on, anywhere I've seen.  There have been articles in woodworking magazines over the past thirty+ years but they are long on suggesting what to buy and very short on identifying stones you already have, or explaining why they work for particular jobs.  I've never even seen an explanation of "soft" versus "hard" Arkansas stones.

I have a very old stone, from some yard sale or other, which I presume is a soft Arkansas, a mottled gray with a vein of something running through it (so I know it's natural) mounted with tar in a wooden block.  I use it for all my chisels and plane irons and it removes metal reasonably fast.  I also have a finer white stone (a hard Arkansas?) but rarely use it.  And an assortment of manufactured stones, none of which seems especially good at anything, and some Arkansas slip stones for sharpening gouges and molding-plane irons.

I'm waiting with bated breath for a definitive description of natural stones and how they compare with manufactured ones.  Meanwhile, I don't feel like spending a lot of money on a new one, only to find that it's no better than what I have now.


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## Baithog (Mar 15, 2015)

Not sure where you've been looking, but the bamboo rod makers have driven this around the block a few times. Here's a link to some arkansas stone information - http://www.danswhetstone.com/stone_grades_101.htm

Note the specific gravity specs. You can measure the specific gravity of your mystery stone and find out what it is.


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## mikey (Mar 16, 2015)

rfdes said:


> Presently, I own no sharpening stone (other than my bench grinder) and am looking for a best choice for a beginner.  I'm simply looking for something for sharpening hand tools and honing lathe tool bits, etc.



I own many kinds of stones, from diamond to arkansas, to the finest japanese waterstones. When it comes to sharpening lathe tools I only use diamond stones - they cut fast and clean and the stones stay dead flat for many years. If a tool is properly ground right off the grinder then the edges are close enough to be refined for use with a fine diamond stone and an extra-fine diamond stone will get it ready for use in a few more seconds. If you go for diamond stones I suggest the solid surface stones, not the kind with dots on the surface. The cheapest and easiest to handle are the credit card types and they work really well. I use the larger bench stones rarely nowadays. I prefer DMT solid surface stones - they seem to last forever. 

For smaller tools like gravers I grind the tool then use a fine India stone followed by a translucent arkansas stone to get a fine razors edge. 

Forget waterstones for lathe tools. They are too soft and you'll ruin them.


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## cdhknives (Mar 24, 2015)

I personally only use diamond 'stones'.  It is too much trouble keeping the old Arkansas and Carburundum type stones flat and clean.  A diamond stone works on everything from chisels to knives to carbide bits.  Stones are miserable on modern super steels in high end knives and HSS tooling and fail altogether on carbide.  A single coarse and a single fine diamond 'stone' will be expensive but last you far longer...and stay essentially flat even with long use.


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## randyc (Mar 24, 2015)

OK, this is going to seem real weird but I use alcohol for stoning knives, chisels and cutting tools.  It seems to work just fine but can any of the experts see a problem with this ?  I don't even recall why I started doing this, answer is lost in the mists of time


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