# New Lathe User - Just Bought An Atlas MK2 6x18



## Skowinski

I've been around machine shops over the years, but rarely did any work myself, and even then was just being guided step by step.  Just picked up what looks like a great deal on a barely used Atlas MK2 6 inch lathe, with tons of accessories and tooling.  Starting to dig around on the forum to educate myself, and already learning a lot.




The drawers in the cabinet are full of tooling and parts, some of which I have no idea what it's for.


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## Skowinski

A few more pics.


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## Dhector

Damn!!! You got a lot of stuff for that machine. I BELIEVE the MK2 is almost identical to the 3950 I bought. Wa5cab is very smart on these lathes. He will probably chime in and help to. It looks to be in fantastic shape to me. Lots of tooling, steady rest, follower rest, milling attachment, 2 3 jaw, 1 4 jaw, live center, drill attachment, threading gears, and manuals. I'd like to know what you paid for it, your call though. Dont have to say if you dont want to. I know how much I racked up in my 3950 to get all of those parts together. Yours is in very nice shape too!!! I had a blast with mine. Nice buy!!!

Can we see pics of what is in the drawers???? Please????


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## 56type

Have one of those myself and am very happy with it so far. Just don't ask it to try to make cuts that a larger lathe can do and you'll probably be happy with it's performance. You made out like a kid at Christmas with all the extra tooling.


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## ch2co

Congratulations !  and welcome to the forum.  This is a great place to learn and ask questions.
You are very fortunate to have a lathe with the "works". The accessories would probably cost you 
as much or more than the lathe.  This is the same way I got my lathe and after 3 years there are still a
few parts that I haven't used, and there are very few things that I needed to buy. As Hector said,
we LOVE pictures. Don't hesitate to ask questions, there is no such thing as stupid questions
on this site.   Good luck and keep us informed of any projects you are working on.

CHuck the grumpy old guy


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## Skowinski

Thanks guys!  I picked it up for $750, and think it would have been a deal for a lot more than that.  It needed a really good cleaning.  I think I spent 3 hours and still need to get into the gearbox and pull the tailstock and carriage off and clean those good. 

I'll try to get some more pics.  I'm sure I'll have some stupid questions as I go along!


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## markba633csi

You dog! Took me a year to get mine together and still don't have a steady rest- enjoy! 
Mark S.


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## Dhector

Skowinski said:


> Thanks guys!  I picked it up for $750, and think it would have been a deal for a lot more than that.  It needed a really good cleaning.  I think I spent 3 hours and still need to get into the gearbox and pull the tailstock and carriage off and clean those good.
> 
> I'll try to get some more pics.  I'm sure I'll have some stupid questions as I go along!



I for one like stupid questions!!!!!!! Read my thread on my 6913, I had plenty of stupid questions in that thread!!!!!!!! I didnt even know swarf was an actual word!!! :-(

Thats a good price in my opinion for all of that. I have more than that in the extras alone I got for mine after I bought it. This hobby is addictive and can make the pocketbook smaller and smaller!!!!!
Someone on this forum said this but I cant remember who it was but "Welcome to the soon to be broke club!!!!" he deserves the credit, not me, but he was right!!! Nice score!


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## wa5cab

The Atlas Mk1 (which was never actually called that during its lifetime) consists of the Atlas 612 and 618, the Craftsman 101.07301, and the Craftsman 101.21400.  The 618 and 101.21400 are exactly the same except for badges and nameplates, and both have 1"-10 spindle threads.  The 101.07301 is almost the same as the 618 made in about 1938 to 1940 except has sleeve bearings and 1"-8 spindle threads.

The Mk2 replaced the Mk1 in about 1973.  All have 1"-10 spindle threads and are 8-speed (no intermediate countershaft).  The first two models were Atlas 3950 and Craftsman 101.21200.  They have ball bearings on the spindle and a cast iron headstock.  The first 800 to 1000 or so used the same compound and tailstock as the 618.  As those were used up, they were replaced by what you have.  The bed was originally the same as on the 618 except for the location of the tapped holes for the headstock and legs.

Sears discontinued the 101.21200 in 1976 or early 1977 and Atlas replaced the 3950 with the 10100 (which Sears never sold).  Initially, the only difference was that the headstock (still cast iron) and spindle were modified to take Timken tapered roller bearings like the 618 had.  In June 1979 at (supposedly) S/N 007328 the apron was modified to add backlash adjustment to the carriage traverse gears.  At some point after S/N 008329, the traverse rack was changed from the 618 type (with 5 mounting screws and two locator pins) to only two larger screws.  At some point no later than S/N 9901 and thought to probably be in early 1980, Atlas changed the headstock and legs to Zamak.  This proved to be a disaster and although Atlas apparently made a retrofit kit with cast iron parts available (not clear if free or not), the 10100 went out of production probably late in 1980 or very early 1981.

Your machine has the late apron with backlash adjustment but I can't tell from the photo whether the legs and headstock are cast iron or Zamak.  If you wouldn't mind, please complete the "Survey Questions For Atlas/craftsman 6" Mk2 Lathes" contained in the thread of that name up in the Sticky area at the top of this Forum.


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## Blacksuit

Nice looking lathe and equipment. I'm in the same boat as you as I am new to any kind of machining work. I boughta craftsman 101.21400 6 inch about 3 weeks ago and just started playing with. I would love to have that milling attachment!


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## Skowinski

wa5cab said:


> The Atlas Mk1 (which was never actually called that during its lifetime) consists of the Atlas 612 and 618, the Craftsman 101.07301, and the Craftsman 101.21400.  The 618 and 101.21400 are exactly the same except for badges and nameplates, and both have 1"-10 spindle threads.  The 101.07301 is almost the same as the 618 made in about 1938 to 1940 except has sleeve bearings and 1"-8 spindle threads.
> 
> The Mk2 replaced the Mk1 in about 1973.  All have 1"-10 spindle threads and are 8-speed (no intermediate countershaft).  The first two models were Atlas 3950 and Craftsman 101.21200.  They have ball bearings on the spindle and a cast iron headstock.  The first 800 to 1000 or so used the same compound and tailstock as the 618.  As those were used up, they were replaced by what you have.  The bed was originally the same as on the 618 except for the location of the tapped holes for the headstock and legs.
> 
> Sears discontinued the 101.21200 in 1976 or early 1977 and Atlas replaced the 3950 with the 10100 (which Sears never sold).  Initially, the only difference was that the headstock (still cast iron) and spindle were modified to take Timken tapered roller bearings like the 618 had.  In June 1979 at (supposedly) S/N 007328 the apron was modified to add backlash adjustment to the carriage traverse gears.  At some point after S/N 008329, the traverse rack was changed from the 618 type (with 5 mounting screws and two locator pins) to only two larger screws.  At some point no later than S/N 9901 and thought to probably be in early 1980, Atlas changed the headstock and legs to Zamak.  This proved to be a disaster and although Atlas apparently made a retrofit kit with cast iron parts available (not clear if free or not), the 10100 went out of production probably late in 1980 or very early 1981.
> 
> Your machine has the late apron with backlash adjustment but I can't tell from the photo whether the legs and headstock are cast iron or Zamak.  If you wouldn't mind, please complete the "Survey Questions For Atlas/craftsman 6" Mk2 Lathes" contained in the thread of that name up in the Sticky area at the top of this Forum.



Thanks for all the info!

The headstock and legs on this one appear to be Zamak - they are non-magnetic.  Some of the documentation that came with it indicate it was bought from the factory in 1981.  What's the issue with the Zamak parts, brittle, wear out easily?

Looking at the ways it's apparent this thing has little use.  The tool/grinding marks are still visible front and back on both ways.

I'll do the survey for sure.


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## Dhector

wa5cab said:


> The Atlas Mk1 (which was never actually called that during its lifetime) consists of the Atlas 612 and 618, the Craftsman 101.07301, and the Craftsman 101.21400.  The 618 and 101.21400 are exactly the same except for badges and nameplates, and both have 1"-10 spindle threads.  The 101.07301 is almost the same as the 618 made in about 1938 to 1940 except has sleeve bearings and 1"-8 spindle threads.
> 
> The Mk2 replaced the Mk1 in about 1973.  All have 1"-10 spindle threads and are 8-speed (no intermediate countershaft).  The first two models were Atlas 3950 and Craftsman 101.21200.  They have ball bearings on the spindle and a cast iron headstock.  The first 800 to 1000 or so used the same compound and tailstock as the 618.  As those were used up, they were replaced by what you have.  The bed was originally the same as on the 618 except for the location of the tapped holes for the headstock and legs.
> 
> Sears discontinued the 101.21200 in 1976 or early 1977 and Atlas replaced the 3950 with the 10100 (which Sears never sold).  Initially, the only difference was that the headstock (still cast iron) and spindle were modified to take Timken tapered roller bearings like the 618 had.  In June 1979 at (supposedly) S/N 007328 the apron was modified to add backlash adjustment to the carriage traverse gears.  At some point after S/N 008329, the traverse rack was changed from the 618 type (with 5 mounting screws and two locator pins) to only two larger screws.  At some point no later than S/N 9901 and thought to probably be in early 1980, Atlas changed the headstock and legs to Zamak.  This proved to be a disaster and although Atlas apparently made a retrofit kit with cast iron parts available (not clear if free or not), the 10100 went out of production probably late in 1980 or very early 1981.
> 
> Your machine has the late apron with backlash adjustment but I can't tell from the photo whether the legs and headstock are cast iron or Zamak.  If you wouldn't mind, please complete the "Survey Questions For Atlas/craftsman 6" Mk2 Lathes" contained in the thread of that name up in the Sticky area at the top of this Forum.




Told you. Isn't he something!!!!!!


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## westsailpat

Congrats on your score S , I for one would also like to know whats in the drawers . If this tooling is not in the drawer I highly recommend you get it .  https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4058&category=
Tool setting has to be correct and this will make it so much easier . Good luck with the new machine !


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## Skowinski

Thanks westsail, have a notice for the quick change tool post so I can get those when they are available.  Here are some photos of the contents of the drawers.  A bit of a mess right now, as I've just started arranging similar stuff.  Like I said, not completely sure what all I have here yet.


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## Skowinski

Thanks everyone for the welcomes!  I'm getting into this as I'm about a year away from retiring and want to learn machining and welding, as a support to my main addiction, motorcycles.  I hope this doesn't become another addiction!  

Hey, what happened to my swarf status?  I kinda liked that.


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## westsailpat

Man you really did score . I see some tool holder blocks in there  , those look good . Motorcycles ?


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## Dhector

There are a lot of very intelligent people on this forum and I don't consider me anywhere close to smart with machining at all but from my little knowledge on this stuff I must say you did good. Very good!!!!! The only thing I didnt get with my 3950 that you did, was some brushes. And about 95 percent of everything else!!!!! Awesome!!!!


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## wa5cab

Skowinski said:


> Thanks for all the info!
> 
> The headstock and legs on this one appear to be Zamak - they are non-magnetic.  Some of the documentation that came with it indicate it was bought from the factory in 1981.  What's the issue with the Zamak parts, brittle, wear out easily?
> 
> Looking at the ways it's apparent this thing has little use.  The tool/grinding marks are still visible front and back on both ways.
> 
> I'll do the survey for sure.



Noob,

Zamak V is a zinc alloy usually die cast that can suffer from something called Zinc Pest.  It is caused by using zinc in the pouring process that is of insufficient purity, primarily lead.  It may take years before it appears or it can happen fairly quickly.  However for the most part anything Atlas that was going to fail from zinc pest has already done so.  It is generally accepted that any Zamak V parts made after about 1960 aren't going to be troubled with Zinc Pest.

However, zinc pest had nothing to do with the problem with the Zamak Mk2 headstock and leg castings.  To a first approximation, Zamak has physical properties that are of about the same close order of magnitude as the better cast iron grades.  Had the headstock or legs been made of cast iron of the same wall thickness or cross section, the same thing would have happened.  One could say that Atlas should have learned their lesson back in the early to mid 1930;s when they made some parts (like the compound slide) out of Zamak and they soon broke.  But I am sure that no one was still around to remind the bean counters of what had happened the last time that inappropriate parts were made of Zamak.  Probably you won't have any trouble with it.  But if the headstock or legs do crack, just replace them with the cast iron versions which are fairly available on the used market.

But the gears and other Zamak parts on the lathe should be fine.  The gears will not last forever.  But neither would steel or cast iron ones and it's unlikely, considering that they are basically new, that you will live long enough to wear them out.


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## wa5cab

I forgot to comment on the haul that you made.  You really lucked out out the accessories and tooling.


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## Suzuki4evr

First of all,welcome to HM.
Even in South-African money that is a great find asspecialy with ALLLLLLLL THAT tooling.I am kind of jealous,but congrats and enjoy making chips.You will learn alot here.


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## markba633csi

My Mk2 also has the "backlash adjustment" carriage handwheel assembly.  I have found that it doesn't really give much adjustment in
that regard;  on mine at least, the gearcase has to be oriented to the extreme "down" position to obtain proper pinion to rack adjustment. Rotating
the gearcase either to the left or the right simply moves the pinion away from the rack.  Perhaps the factory had something else in mind, or just miscalculated and didn't give enough adjustment range, I don't know.  But it only meshes well in the one position.
I also found that the Zamak front gearcase half (that holds the handwheel pinion shaft) wears rapidly; I bored mine out to 13/32" and installed
a piece of 13/32" OD, 3/8" ID brass hobby tubing.  Nice and tight now.
The belt idler pulley bushing also wears fast- keep it well oiled until you get fed up and replace it with a Torrington needle bearing and hardened steel shaft.  Frankly the idler could probably be eliminated altogether; it tends to impart periodic "tugs" to the headstock which is not ideal for good surface finish on your turned parts.  Another bean-counter compromise.  A spring-loaded tensioner would have been preferable.
The sliding coupling from the step pulley to the spindle is another high-wear area.  Bean counters strike again. They should have put two 180 degree woodruff keys instead of just the one.  Hard to improve on this item, it is what it is. I do like the ability to pull the collar and twirl the spindle by hand, very handy when indicating a part in the 4-jaw chuck.  I also like the backgear lever- no tiny pin to pull out- makes changing chucks a breeze.  A nice machine in some ways, but a bit weak in others.  Biggest improvement I made was a variable speed motor.  
Mark S.


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## markba633csi

When eventually I aquire a larger lathe, I thought I might modify the little Mk2 to make it a swiveling headstock a la the Unimat DB-200. 
If a way could be found to drive the leadscrew with some type of flexible coupling, it would be great for turning tapers and making tapered threads
without needing a taper attachment. 
Mark


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## Skowinski

Would you guys go to the trouble of taking this gearbox apart to clean and relubricate the gears?  It's a bit messy and no idea how old some of this grease is, or how much junk is mixed in with it making a nice grinding paste...


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## westsailpat

Yes you must , get every thing clean and re grease at assembly . When I got my machine the grease had turned to dried glue .


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## Skowinski

westsailpat said:


> Yes you must , get every thing clean and re grease at assembly . When I got my machine the grease had turned to dried glue .



I think I may have answered my own question with the "grinding paste" comment, lol.

If anyone has tips about taking these gearboxes apart for cleaning, and reassembly please let me know.


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## Dhector

Take pictures first(as you have) and pay close attention to which shaft/bolt they came off. I'm sure you knew that. Download the manual if you haven't already. One thing to watch for though is when you remove the snap ring inside the pulley assembly, watch for a SMALL ball bearing and a spring that are inside the collar to put it lock it into back gear. They can fly out and never been seen again. Ask how I know that Also when you remove that collar, don't rotate it while removing. I did that once on my 3950 and the spring gouged the collar.


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## dlane

Nice score, cool goat to


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## wa5cab

Shorter answer, yes!


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## markba633csi

You could solvent-clean it without disassembly by making a "tray" of foil under it and using a brush. Much faster and 
practically as good. It will get dirty again fast, so surgical cleanliness is not required.
Mark


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## westsailpat

Yes that would be a good start , and then one by one remove the gears and grease the shafts .


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## Skowinski

Hi Guys - back again, I'm starting to play around with machining some aluminum and the cross slide hand wheel seems to have what I think is a lot of slop in it.  It turns about 30, maybe 35 degrees right or left before it starts moving the cross slide.  This brass(?) nut fits tightly into the hole in the cross slide, so the play must be in the threaded part that the screw drives.  Is this nut (what do you call this thing?) worn out, or is this normal for these machines?


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## markba633csi

The nut fits tightly into the hole then is fastened by a screw which also holds a cover plate in place.
It's normal to have some backlash on the order of what you are experiencing. Anticipating (and compensating for) backlash is part of the learning process.
Mark S.


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## Skowinski

markba633csi said:


> The nut fits tightly into the hole then is fastened by a screw which also holds a cover plate in place.
> It's normal to have some backlash on the order of what you are experiencing. Anticipating (and compensating for) backlash is part of the learning process.
> Mark S.



Yep, it's a pretty simple device.

Looking at it some more it's clear that the play/backlash isn't because of a loose fit of the nut in the hole in the cross slide (it's tight) or because of the threads in the nut (look fine, minimal play when screwed onto the drive screw).  It's because the brass nut is relatively narrow compared to the slot in the carriage that it and the drive screw ride in.  There's about 2-3 mm space on each side of the nut, so when you turn the hand wheel the nut rotates either way before it contacts the side of the slot and only then actually starts driving the cross slide.

Seems they would have manufactured it with tighter tolerances.  Ok, if it's normal I'll try to back off my AR-OCD perfectionist tendencies, LOL.


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## markba633csi

If the nut is moving/rotating something is wrong.  The screw and cover should hold the nut firmly (if I remember correctly) to the cross slide.
Check that the nut isn't extending above the top surface of the slide, it should be just below the surface.
I don't see the cover plate in your picture- you do have one correct?
Mark


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## Skowinski

Alright, I'm stupid, sheesh, ignore that post please, sorry.  Too early in the morning and not enough coffee.  You're right markba....

edit: yes, do have the cover plate.


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## utterstan

great lathe i wish I got tooling with mine ,so far i've spent 350 on mine 200 more plus a new  chuck and qctp 350.so thats 900 not bad 75 dollar investment LOL. you did well


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## markba633csi

Don't worry Sko I've had many a "Senior moment"
Mark


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## westsailpat

Is it possible you are getting the backlash because the preload on the screw needs to be tightened up ? Ie: Turn the cross feed handle in and then back out so that you are at the backlash point  look at the cross feed dial , is there a gap where it meets the slide ? When you turn the handle back in , does the gap close up and then move the slide ? If that is the case can you tighten up the dial to get rid of the gap ? Hope that makes sense , that is the fix on my 6" Craftsman .


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## Skowinski

Thanks westsailpat!  I figured out what you're talking about.  There was a very small gap, so I tightened up the nut on the dial as much as possible but still allowing smooth turning.  Now the backlash is about half what it was.    Still there, but less.  

Given the very small amount of wear I can find on this machine I'd think the carriage cross slide brass nut shouldn't be worn much on the internal threads, but maybe a new one would tighten it up even more.


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## westsailpat

Wow OK that worked , so now you are down to about 15* ? I don't think I would be worried about that . I like to run a little oil in the gap . Every threaded type lead screw has some backlash to some degree .


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## markba633csi

Save your money, a new nut (and they are pricey) will only give an incremental improvement. On another note, they used plastic gib strips on some of those models, you might want to replace with brass or steel- but most likely you'll have to make them.  If you order them from Clausing you'll probably get the plastic ones again.
Your avatar is wild- is that a goat attacking your (kid) sister? LOL
Mark


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## Skowinski

Thanks again guys, mucho.  I'll keep digging around and playing with this machine, it's lots of fun.

The avatar is just a photo I ran across some time ago.  I though it was hilarious, so saved it and ended up using it.


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## Skowinski

Is this the only oil cup for the spindle bearings?  (under the back gear lever)  I can't see any others, so assume this one oils both bearings?


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## wa5cab

I don't have a MK2 and can't say for certain.  But the headstock illustrated parts page in the 10100 manual (both early and late) only shows one oil cup.  A note on the Lubrication instructions page says:

NOTE:  To lubricate spindle bearings, fill oiler until oil seeps out of side of side of headstock underneath spindle.

"bearings" is plural.

If you do not have a 10100 manual, you can download a PDF from Downloads.  The main difference between Early and Late is that the carriage is modified so that you can adjust the back lash in the carriage traverse mechanism.


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## Skowinski

I've started disassembling the carriage and cross/compound slides for cleaning and relubing.  Looks like some kind of plastic or nylon gibs in this thing.  I recall reading (somewhere, maybe this forum) that these cheesy gibs are not great, and if you order new ones from Clausing they'll just send you the same.

Any experience with making replacements of something like brass?  Or is there a drop in metal gib from another Atlas model that will work?  They don't look simple in design, kinda wedge shaped (haven't fully disassembled yet, but can see them in there...).


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## David S

make sure it is not Turcite... which is often used to recondition ways.

David


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## Dhector

Skowinski said:


> I've started disassembling the carriage and cross/compound slides for cleaning and relubing.  Looks like some kind of plastic or nylon gibs in this thing.  I recall reading (somewhere, maybe this forum) that these cheesy gibs are not great, and if you order new ones from Clausing they'll just send you the same.
> 
> Any experience with making replacements of something like brass?  Or is there a drop in metal gib from another Atlas model that will work?  They don't look simple in design, kinda wedge shaped (haven't fully disassembled yet, but can see them in there...).




They are plastic and Clausing will sell you the exact same thing. I made a set of gibs for my 3950 and a 12 x 36 Sears machine. They work better in my opinion. That being said, I purchased a larger machine shortly after and use it all the time instead so the length of use with the metal homeade ones was limited. I made them out of steel. I polished the faces smooth and ground them by hand for the angle. I'd recommend doing it. Maybe someone will have a better idea of metal to use other than steel. I makes a big difference getting the plastic ones out.


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## wa5cab

Brass would not be a good choice compared to steel.  The coefficient of static friction is slightly larger for brass on steel than it is for steel on steel.  There is another list member who has made a set out of steel for, coincidentally, a MK2.  He reported a noticeable decrease in movement of the cross slide while cutting.  And an improvement in surface finish.  I managed to acquire drawings for the early steel versions of the two steel ones used in the 618 and 101.07301 up until the change to plastic.  And also of the two used in the 10" and 12" prior to about 1958.  There are two of the latter in the mail to me to try in my 3996.  We have discussed him making them for sale, both gibs in both sizes.  Although they are not that difficult to make, they aren't trivial, either, because of the trapezoidal cross section.  And they do take a little time.  If we decide to go ahead with the project, I'll post them in the proper For Sale forum.


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## markba633csi

I beg to differ about brass gibs- I made one for my MK2 compound and it's smooth as butter, and tight.  Conversely, I have an original steel one in the cross slide and it has never had as pleasing an action to my fingers. There's a "grittiness" that the brass one does not have. I've checked the steel one for burrs and polished it.  Both are well greased and adjusted.  Only downside of brass I can see is they would tend to wear faster.
Mark S.


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## wa5cab

Well, personal perceptions differ, I guess.  Are you actually using grease on the gibs?


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## Skowinski

Thanks for the input guys.  Given the odd cross section shape of these gibs, I don't think I can make them myself, I don't have the equipment to do that.  I guess I could take them to my local machine shop and ask them to reproduce them in a metal, but they'd likely charge me $200 or so to make them (I'm guessing).

Maybe I'll just get some new plastic ones from Clausing and move on.  The gib for the cross slide looks a bit deformed, so it's not so good now probably.  

wa5cab - if any of these are made for sale I'd be interested in knowing.


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## Dhector

Skowinski said:


> Thanks for the input guys.  Given the odd cross section shape of these gibs, I don't think I can make them myself, I don't have the equipment to do that.  I guess I could take them to my local machine shop and ask them to reproduce them in a metal, but they'd likely charge me $200 or so to make them (I'm guessing).
> 
> Maybe I'll just get some new plastic ones from Clausing and move on.  The gib for the cross slide looks a bit deformed, so it's not so good now probably.
> 
> wa5cab - if any of these are made for sale I'd be interested in knowing.




I originally did the same thing and took them to a machine shop as I thought it would be difficult to do. When he was done, he said I'd have to file the edges down to fit, so I thought, "If I have to make them fit, I should have just done it in the first place" Don't get me wrong, I really like those guys at the machine shop and I'm not bashing them at all. The second set I needed I made myself. I have a mill but not a lot of tooling and even less"knowledge on how to run it correctly"to make the angle with it.

Im not saying this is the same size you have just wanted to give you a better picture of the ones I replace and what the look like out of the machine.










The half moon holes in this pic I did NOT put in the metal ones I made. The metal ones I made seemed to stay in just fine without walking on me.




Right or wrong the ones I made were done with a gasket grinding disc on an air operated die grinder. I eyeballed the angle and made sure it wasn't too tall(the .275 dimension) by setting the gib machine and making sure it wasn't higher than the surface of the bottom part of the lateh. It made a world of difference on both machines(3950, Sears and Roebuck 12 x 36) 

IF i had to GUESS, my thoughts is that the width is the important dimension to gibs. Maybe smoothness too. I think the angle is just so it fits better and gives more surface area.
 If thats incorrect someone here will know and chime it hopefully. Id' say give it shot if you have time. If it doesn't work, your only out some time.


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## markba633csi

Skowinski: I still have the fixture I used to make mine,  If you want to buy some material and cover the postage I could make you a couple.
Mark
"I'll make him an offer he can't refuse" he says in best Marlon Brando accent


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## Skowinski

Thanks for all the details Dhector!



markba633csi said:


> Skowinski: I still have the fixture I used to make mine,  If you want to buy some material and cover the postage I could make you a couple.
> Mark
> "I'll make him an offer he can't refuse" he says in best Marlon Brando accent
> View attachment 255489



Wow, thanks, now that *is* an offer that can't be refused!  I'd happily cover material, postage, and a couple of 6-packs of your favorite beverage! 

Let me think about material and come up with some rectangular bar stock of the appropriate size (is that what you started with, and any suggestions?).


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## markba633csi

I used 1/8" by 3/8" brass flat bar stock from Online metals for the compound.  I think the cross slide is the same but a little longer.  Brass seems to have a nicer feel than steel (see posts 48 and 49 above) so that's what I recommend but I could mill either.  Let me measure mine again before you order any stock.  
Where in Vegas are you? I had friends living over on the east side some years back but they live here now.  My friend's daughter had to commute over to Primm everyday on the bus- brutal.
Mark


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## wa5cab

You can actually cut the bevels with a dovetail cutter with the bar either horizontal or vertical (I forget which).  But you do need to mill the open ended slots with the bar laid over at the proper angle.  If you don't cut the slots and at an angle, and if you use brass instead of steel, I would guess that you would have to readjust the gib screws pretty frequently for the first few months as the corners of the screws cut into the soft brass.

Skowinski, I'll let you know if we go ahead with it.  I'm not putting the drawings in Files as I'm not really supposed to have them.


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## Fabrickator

Very Cool, that's the first lathe I owned.  I quickly converted mine to QCTP from Little Machine shop. My model had Timken spindle bearings w/decals stating such.  I liked it until I went to cut threads and found out that the guy before me had stealthy brazed the gear change sprocket to the lead screw shaft, and I was missing a bunch of change gears.  I paid $500 and sold it for $400, but *I told the buyer* about the threading problem.  He was fine with it because he basically just wanted it to spin valves or something for cleaning.


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## Skowinski

I'm back with what I'm sure will turn out to be a dumb question, but googling and youtubing isn't turning up anything. 

I'm still slowly working on disassembling the cross/compound slides.  Are these screws holding the crank handles on OEM parts, or some odd aftermarket parts?  How are you supposed to undo them?  Can't get a flatblade screwdriver in there because of the center part that stands out. 

Looks like the previous owner already buggered up the one on the compound slide (top).


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## Dhector

Skowinski said:


> I'm back with what I'm sure will turn out to be a dumb question, but googling and youtubing isn't turning up anything.
> 
> I'm still slowly working on disassembling the cross/compound slides.  Are these screws holding the crank handles on OEM parts, or some odd aftermarket parts?  How are you supposed to undo them?  Can't get a flatblade screwdriver in there because of the center part that stands out.
> 
> Looks like the previous owner already buggered up the one on the compound slide (top).
> 
> View attachment 256090


It's been quite a while since I tore my 3950 apart but if memory serves me correctly I THINK if you loosen the nut towards the inside of the handle, the handle will loosen up and you can remove the outer "nut" Im pretty sure there is a key in the shaft and the handle can slide in and out when the nuts are loose. The dial inside the hex nut is held with a set screw if memory is correct.


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## Z2V

Skowinski said:


> I'm back with what I'm sure will turn out to be a dumb question, but googling and youtubing isn't turning up anything.
> 
> I'm still slowly working on disassembling the cross/compound slides.  Are these screws holding the crank handles on OEM parts, or some odd aftermarket parts?  How are you supposed to undo them?  Can't get a flatblade screwdriver in there because of the center part that stands out.
> 
> Looks like the previous owner already buggered up the one on the compound slide (top).
> 
> View attachment 256090


I had an 07301 and it had the same fasteners so I’d say they are OEM. 
Looks like somebody beat on a screwdriver or something to tighten the nut. 
A spanner type tool would be the tool to use. 
You got a great deal with the lathe and all the tools that came with it, congrats


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## francist

I made a pretty simple tool for those from an old power hacksaw blade, but an old screwdriver or small knife would work too. File or grind to fit.

-frank


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## wa5cab

First, the special nuts are nuts, not screws.  Second, yes, they are OEM.  And are far from being unique to the Atlas machines.  They aren't perhaps as common on new equipment today as they once were.  But if you work on older equipment including both machine tools and military grade electronics, you will run into them in various sizes.

Buying a new tool today that fits is unlikely.  But making one is simple.  Measure the OD of the nut.  Unless you already have one that you just haven't thrown away, buy the cheapest set of 6-point long-pattern 1/4" square-drive sockets that you can find.  Measure the OD's for one that is about the same OD as the nut.  Mill (or  accurately grind and file) both sides of the open end, leaving two tangs sticking out.  The tangs need to be fairly close to being on a diameter of the socket, and centered in two opposite thickest parts of the socket.  The ID should be a slip fit over the screw that the nut fits.  And the tangs need to fit the slots in the nut.  I've made about half a dozen of them over the years, in different sizes up to about 3/4" diameter.  

You can also make a tool from a screwdriver that fits the slot in the nut when it is off of the machine by running an end mill the same diameter as the screw across the end of the screw driver blade.  But the tool made from the socket is less likely to slip and damage the nut.


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## David S

On my 618 I took a piece of flat metal of the width to fit the OD of the nut and filed a notch in the centre to clear the screw.  You could also sacrifice an old cheap screwdriver and cut the notch in the blade.

David


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## Skowinski

Thanks everyone, a home made tool it is then.


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## wa5cab

Well, the notched screwdriver is certainly quicker than a copy of the OEM tool.  But one of the problems with it is that it only works if the screw never protrudes out of the nut.  The ones made from a 6-point socket don't have that problem.


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## Skowinski

I probably should dig around some more in these drawers in the cabinet this lathe came mounted on.  Could be a tool buried in there somewhere.  There's stuff I still haven't figured out what it is.  Some odd custom jigs etc, and parts I don't recognize (not surprising since I'm such a noob...).


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## Skowinski

So, it appears I've got most of what's needed to use collets with this lathe.  But, I'm missing the spindle thread protector and a spacer that goes on the drawbar.  It's too long without that and won't tighten a collet in the spindle.  I think I'll make one and was wondering if anyone's got one of these that they could provide me with the dimensions of?  

Looks like MyMachineShop.net sells complete sets and they appear to call this thing a "gear door spacer".

https://www.mymachineshop.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=10001


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## westsailpat

What parts do you have so far Skowinski ? I'm starting to collect parts for mine too , so far I have a collet set (mt2) got it here https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Morse-Ta...440089?hash=item1e9944c619:g:gMoAAOSw~RVaME0m I got this little hand wheel https://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pc-3-Electroplating-Handwheel-OD-69mm-Machinist-Cast-Iron-Tailstock-Hand-Wheel/152385218779?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649 so all I have to do now is make the spacer and get some threaded stock . Only bummer with using a mt 2 collet in the spindle is the collet sticks out about .5 past the spindle . I don't think it's a deal killer we are not taking  heavy cuts but collets are machinable so you could trim some back if it's a problem . The thing they are calling a gear door spacer is the spacer that goes at the opposite of the collet , you can make that easy . Plus you don't really need a hand wheel , just get a long enough bolt make the spacer and use a wrench to do the tighten up . I have seen real Atlas collet set ups that use the nose piece I think that set up is the best . It's here they call it the draw in collet chuck attachment   http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas-6-inch-lathe-accessories/ this set up is a true collet set up where you also still have a thru spindle capability .


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## Skowinski

Thanks, what I have appears to be the "holding collet set" shown on the 6" lathe accessories page you linked, minus the collar/spacer.  There's also a set shown on the printed accessories catalog that came with this lathe, and it shows that same handwheel with the spacer and a "milling cutter holder" which is the MT2 collar with a set screw, which I have, but no spacer.  I've made some measurements and will fabricate a spacer, should be an easy enough project.  Should be able to use this collet set I have then.


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## wa5cab

With either a draw bar (for 2MT collets and the Atlas M6-945 Cutter Holder) or a draw tube (for the Atlas M6-751 collets), you want to use about half of the available threads at the tightened point.  To determine the  required length of the spacer, first determine the number of threads available on or in the collets.  With the M6-751, the threads are on the outside of the collet so you just count them.  With the other two, slide the collet or holder into the spindle until the taper stops it.  Slide the drawbar into the left end of the spindle up against the threads in the end of the collet.  Rotate the handwheel CCW and locate the thread start.  Then start turning it CW, counting the number of turns until the drawbar bottoms out on the last thread.  Multiply the number of threads by about 0.45 and round up.  Screw the tube or bar onto or into the collet the calculated number of turns.  Pull back lightly on the handwheel and measure the distance between the left end of the spindle and the right end of the handwheel hub.  This is the effective length that you need for the spacer.

All of the commercial spacers thst I have seen sold have the right end tapered at about 60 deg.  This works (because the left end of the spindle is slightly countersunk and it's quicker and cheaper to machine.  But it isn't very convenient to use as it won't stay centered up with the spindle bore on its own until it is almost tight.  So make the spacer about 3/16" longer than calculated and turn the right end down to about 17/32" for a distance of 3/16".  This will stay centered making it easier to start the draw bar or tube threads onto or into the collet or holder without danger of cross-threading.


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## Skowinski

Thanks for the detailed reply wa5cab!  I calculated the length of the spacer in a very rough manner by comparison to your outline, and came up with 22 mm.  I'll see how close I may have gotten it.

edit: using wa5cab's method I get 26 mm for the spacer length

I noticed a picture of one of these spacer showed the end tapered to fit the spindle.  The simple stepped design you suggest would be easier to machine and sounds like it would certainly work.


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## wa5cab

Skowinski,

The fact that it's easier to machine is just a fringe benefit.  It also works much better.  When you get ready to take a part out of the collet, common practice is to loosen the draw bar or tube about two turns and if the collet doesn't self-release, hit the hand wheel with the palm of your had.  With the tapered-nose spacer, the hand wheel will droop.  With a draw tube, the droop isn't too bad as the tube is almost as large as the spindle bore.  But with a draw bar, in a 10" or 12" the droop is a little over 3/16" and when you hit the hand wheel to free the collet, the force is at an angle to the collet axis.  With the stepped spacer, everything remains centered on the spindle axis without having to use both hands (one to hold the spacer in the spindle countersink).


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## Skowinski

Finally finished up making the drawbar spacer, out of aluminum for a first pass, and maybe that's all that's needed.  I made a few mistakes along the way, but nothing that caused the spacer to be non-functional. This was actually the first part I designed and produced, so I'm pretty happy about that (I know, it's dead simple, but I'm an absolute beginner at this).  I learned a lot along the way, even with this simple design, turning, facing, boring and parting - and it works as intended!


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## westsailpat

Awesome job Skowinski , the only thing I would do is make a steel washer for it . I forget what collet system are you using , do you have the MT2 collet nose or are you using MT2 collets ? Mark .


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## Skowinski

Thanks westsailpat.  Steel washer would go between the hand wheel and the spacer I presume?

I'm using MT2 collets that fit directly in the end of the spindle.


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## T Bredehoft

Steel would replace the aluminum.


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## westsailpat

The washer would go in between the spacer and the end of the lathe . I would make the OD the OD of the spacer and the ID to slip over the part of the spacer that goes into the lathe . It would act the same as a washer under a bolt . Actually one in between the wheel and the spacer is a good idea too . Skowiniski , when you put the collet in the lathe how much does it stick out past the spindle ? Mine sticks out about 3/8 .


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## Skowinski




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## westsailpat

Same here , how awesome it would have been to increase the dia . of the spindle so the collet could go back all the way . Well I'm not going to stress about it . I won't be taking big cuts , the main thing is run out . On the other hand collets are not that hard and can be machined for a better fit , but I really wouldn't think it would be worth it .


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## amuller

I've had a "Mark 1" for about fifty years.  I haven't run it a lot of hours but the only think that's ever worn out is the lead screw half-nuts.  I've never been able part off with it--It's just not rigid enough, or my technique is defective.  So I have always made a starting groove and done the cutting with a hacksaw.  No problems with deterioration of the Zamac handwheels and gears.  Nice little lathe.  Happens that I also have a 7" mini-lathe of the common Chinese sort.  Aside from obviously being different lengths, I'd say they both have their pros and cons.


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## westsailpat

Hi amuller , I have a MK1 also . What tool holder system are you using ? Early on , for me it became clear that the lantern was not worth the "vintageness" , I bought the OXA tool post and some holders . It was like I had a hole new machine , the parting holder is pretty good my blade is about .030 .  I'm with you some stuff I just don't try to part like a large dia. of CR 1018 . I know this is not correct but this is how I received my machine , the spindle bushings had been split and that lets you "adjust " . When I part something that is giving me problems I do the tighten up , finish up and then back off . I machined some cast Nylon the other day , it was better than Alu . .  Mark .


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## amuller

westsailpat said:


> Hi amuller , I have a MK1 also . What tool holder system are you using ? Early on , for me it became clear that the lantern was not worth the "vintageness" , I bought the OXA tool post and some holders . It was like I had a hole new machine , the parting holder is pretty good my blade is about .030 .  I'm with you some stuff I just don't try to part like a large dia. of CR 1018 . I know this is not correct but this is how I received my machine , the spindle bushings had been split and that lets you "adjust " . When I part something that is giving me problems I do the tighten up , finish up and then back off . I machined some cast Nylon the other day , it was better than Alu . .  Mark .



Hi Mark.   I've only every used the lantern tool post I got with it.  Sometime I will try a modern style.  Not sure what you mean by spindle bushings.  Mine has tapered roller bearings on the spindle.  Yr's has a different setup?

Alan


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## Skowinski

I did my first parting operation last week, aluminum about 1 inch diameter with a ~1/2" bore in it.  OXA QCTP and forget the dimension of the parting blade, but it was the wider one available when I ordered.  I also have changed out the plastic gibs to brass, no idea if that helps a lot, or not.  I made 100% sure the blade was perpendicular to the work piece, kept some lubricant on it, and went slowly.  Worked fine.  I knew I was pushing the tool in too fast when it chattered.


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## westsailpat

Hey Allen , Robert correct me if I'm wrong . Allen you have a 618 MK1 , I have a earlier MK1 that has the bushing head stock . Skowinski has the MK2 . When I first got my machine running I was using the lantern tool post , It was obvious it wasn't working as I could see the tool deflect . The main problem on mine was the dish collar that the seesaw wedge and tool holder sits on had become not flat also the top of the compound was not flat and even . To get the compound flat was easy , I just wrapped various grits of paper around a 123 block and got it perfect . Next I got the OXA QCTP , one thing about the OXA is you can use a 3/8 tool my lantern tool holders would only take 3/16 !  Allen here is some history about our machines .
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman6inchmk1/


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## wa5cab

That's correct except for one thing.  The sleeve bearing 101.07301 sold by Sears from the late 30's until 1957 and the Atlas 618 sold by Atlas from the late 30's until 1972 are contemporaries, not early and late versions.  No one knows why Sears insisted upon the sleeve bearings until 1957.  The other difference is the spindle nose threads.  It is unfortunate that Sears and Atlas didn't agree to use the same thread pitch until 1957.


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## big o

I also have a Atlas Mk2  10100. Bought new from Atlas in 78. Changes made over the years, 
   Replaced plastic gibs with steel. Installed adjustable split bushings in carriage slide screw. Reworked cross-slide nut (posted "Atlas
    cross-feed alignment play"). Reworked direct drive coupling (eliminated the click/click) installed springs (from ball point pen).
    Replaced drive belt with a Scotts lawn mower belt,(710190-0838) same width as original. Extended motor mount to accept
    longer belt. Modifications have eliminated back-lash (almost) in cross-slide. Machine is a pleasure to work with!!!!


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## Skowinski

big o said:


> I also have a Atlas Mk2  10100. Bought new from Atlas in 78. Changes made over the years,
> Replaced plastic gibs with steel. Installed adjustable split bushings in carriage slide screw. Reworked cross-slide nut (posted "Atlas
> cross-feed alignment play"). Reworked direct drive coupling (eliminated the click/click) installed springs (from ball point pen).
> Replaced drive belt with a Scotts lawn mower belt,(710190-0838) same width as original. Extended motor mount to accept
> longer belt. Modifications have eliminated back-lash (almost) in cross-slide. Machine is a pleasure to work with!!!!



Those sound like some nice upgrades!  What do you mean by "Reworked direct drive coupling (eliminated the click/click) installed springs (from ball point pen)"? 

Haven't used the Atlas in some time now, as I acquired and rebuilt a South Bend 9A, which is a nice machine.  Still love the little Atlas though and will definitely use it for smaller jobs and Al.  Mine seems to struggle with steel a bit.


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