# All The (antique) Gear, No Idea!



## OneLooseCrank (Jun 11, 2016)

Hello all! A project is beginning...
I've never done any lathing before but I've a long project I'm working on to build my own full suspension bicycle frame. I'm intending to mill up a 35x40mm axle and some collets for it and it's one of many things that I will be learning throughout the project. I've got some literature coming my way to learn from but in the meantime, I'm hoping you can give me some advice on how to ensure my machine is up to scratch.

What I have is an antique R Livingstone lathe that at some point has been updated with an electric motor. The  locking bolts on the saddle show me that the ways are smooth and level. It has no live centre other than a chuck so I'll need a new one. The drive centre seems to have a tiny tiny knock if I lift it. Is this an issue and how should I investigate it? It's not been used in a long time and although it's a very tidy bit of kit, what should I do to make sure it's running right?
Any advice on how to TLC an old machine would be hugely appreciated.
Cheers


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## T Bredehoft (Jun 11, 2016)

OneLooseCrank said:


> The drive centre seems to have a tiny tiny knock if I lift it.



Sounds like an investigation into the spindle is in order. Remove the chuck, it's heavy, and won't help looking for your knock. Remove the drive belt (most right hand belt), just slip it off the upper pulley and let it hang.Start by rotating the spindle, the round thing the chuck was attache to, trying to find any lost motion, a point where one part turns and another does not. If no knock turns up in this test, try sliding it left and right, there should be VERY minimal movement. If nothing shows up, repeat the same tests on all the other turning shafts, one at a time. Without knowing if your lathe has babbit or ball/roller bearings, I can't predict where you will find what needs repaired.

The feed mechanisms are interesting if primitive. Looks like  your lathe has recently been at least well cleaned, if not refurbished.


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## OneLooseCrank (Jun 12, 2016)

Cheers, I've stripped off the tailstock and saddle to clean up the ways fully but am struggling to remove the spindle. With the belt off, the knock is more pronounced so it definitly needs some investigation. I've taken the following pictures in hope that you'll be able to make some recommendations as to pulling the spindle. I've  a lot of learning to do here, but the lathe will make more sense to me when I've seen it in its constituent parts!


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## OneLooseCrank (Jun 12, 2016)

I'm wondering if the mechanism on the far left of the spindle is a way of driving the spindle through the casing? I wouldn't want to force it unless it makes sense to someone with more experience with these things.

I should point out that I have got the chuck off the backing plate.


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## francist (Jun 12, 2016)

LooseCrank -- that certainly is an interesting machine alright, and I suspect you may be in for more of a challenge than you anticipate.

I don't think that piece on the far left that you speak of is for extracting the spindle -- that's not something one typically has to do very often and having a dedicated appliance like that just seems unlikely. Some of the older British bench lathes used a similar setup to act as a second bearing for the spindle. The early Britannia, for instance, had only one spindle bearing but used a hardened steel pivot in that same location to give the second means of support. Yours is not exactly like that, but I wonder if it has a similar role and acts as a kind of thrust bearing? As for removing that spindle, I think you will need to look very closely at all the plates and pulleys to make sure the spindle is actually free to be taken out. There could be set screws (grub screws), drive pins, threaded collars, etc hiding in funny places that are holding the shaft in between the bearings.

Be very cautious and methodical, whatever you do. I have strong suspicions that your little machine is quite unlike what it started out as, and there have been more modifications to it than just a motor upgrade. I'm especially curious about the "tailstock" shown in your earlier pictures. I've never seen anything like it on a lathe before -- it almost looks like a modified tool slide from a metal shaper from my vantage! I'd also encourage you to have a look at the http://lathes.co.uk/ website, specifically at the smaller English lathes section. You may find the pictures of how other machines work to be quite useful. Oh and by the way, it looks like your R. Livingston & Co in Glasgow were not manufacturers of equipment but rather purveyors of tools, hardware, and cutlery. More commonly they are known for handsaws, and were in business up until about 1903. At least that's what I've been able to find on them so far.

-frank


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## OneLooseCrank (Jun 12, 2016)

Cheers Frank,
I'd found some brief info about Livingstone too about handsaws, but not that he was a purveyor rather than manufacturer.
Anyway, lathes.co.uk was a great link - I found a picture under the Britannia models very similar to mine. Even the name plate for Britannia is in the same place, and I'm wondering if it is infact a rebranded Britannia No3 updated to a motor driven metal lathe. The website then goes on to explain that models the swan neck feature on the left of the headstock were almost twice as expensive as without - so it seems I've gotten a right deal! 
Discoveries so far. The left end of the drive shaft has two locknuts backing onto a bush that holds the shaft into the headstock. If I tighten the locknuts against the bush I can eliminate play, but increase resistance in the shaft. I can't find a happy medium where there is very little resistance and no play. Between the two spindle bearings is the flywheel. I'm certain I can see the spindle through a small threaded hole in the flywheel housing which I think should be a grub screw holding the flywheel to the spindle. But there's no grub screw there, and the two turn immediately with one-another.
I'm now going to investigate Britannia tail stocks and see if this can't become a restoration project as well!


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## Keith Foor (Jun 24, 2016)

What is the shaft RPM of that motor.  It's a smallish lathe but I wonder if the gearing is incorrect and the lathe is turning faster than it was designed to.


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