# 12-20 Tap Can You make One?



## mwebster51 (Jul 13, 2020)

Hi guys. Do any of you have the ability to make a 12-20 tap HSS. It was a thread used in the old Stanley planes. I have not been able to find a retailer who sells or has any in stock.
If you can make one do you have any idea what it would cost to make a few?
Thanks


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## BtoVin83 (Jul 14, 2020)

Like this?


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

Yes as you can see they are out of stock and have been for months


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## JRaut (Jul 14, 2020)

Here's one on eBay for $14 delivered by the end of the week.









						Wiley & Russell #12-20 Thread Special Pitch 4-Flute Taps used on Stanley planes  | eBay
					

Used on Stanley plane castings where the totes & knobs threaded rods insert.



					www.ebay.com
				




There may be others, but that one popped up first.

Someone'd have to be working below minimum wage to get you something any cheaper.


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## Jimsehr (Jul 14, 2020)

I googled 12-20 tap and got buried with results.


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

I bought that one on ebay about an hour ago. That was the last one and it is apparently used. I need to find some more for back up.


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

I have checked every hit on google and it leads to a dead end.


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

At least every hit I could find


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## JRaut (Jul 14, 2020)

After a few minutes of searching, I see what you mean... seems like a lot of demand from folks restoring planes, but little to no supply anywhere.

I suppose you're just chasing out existing threads, and not cutting brand new threads, correct?

If that's the case, seems like a reasonably easy job using some prehard 4140 steel or something like that.

Shoot me over $20 and your recommendation for a good 6-pack of beer and I can give it a shot for ya. They'd be good for chasing existing threads, and certainly wouldn't last as long as a commercial tap. But I could make a few; I think I've got some 4140 lying around.


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

Normally I would be chasing the existing thread. I crumbled the two taps today though. I was making a screw tree I use to bead blast screws for the old Stanleys I refurbish.  So could occasionally use the taps for "mild" steel. Here is the screw tree. It has other thread on it but 3 of them were the 12-20. I will PM you my email maybe we can work something out. I do like my beer


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## mksj (Jul 14, 2020)

There is a previous eBay seller that states he still has a supply, might PM though eBay messaging if he has anymore and setup an eBay listing for you.








						10-Pack Wiley & Russell #12-20 Special Pitch 4-Flute Plug Hand Thread Taps: USA  | eBay
					

Made in the USA.



					www.ebay.com


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

I just sent the seller a message thanks


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## 4ssss (Jul 14, 2020)

I think I may have a 1/2 dozen new plug taps. I'll check later today.

Sorry, I have 12-28


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## tq60 (Jul 14, 2020)

12 and 1/4 are close in size.

For your screw tree and worn holes try a standard 1/4 20 tap.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

I will try the 1/4-20 on the screws from the planes for the tree. Thanks. When working on my planes, since I am restoring and reselling, I need to stick with the correct taps for that work though. Thanks


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

mksj said:


> There is a previous eBay seller that states he still has a supply, might PM though eBay messaging if he has anymore and setup an eBay listing for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the lead but he doesn't have any more.


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## kb58 (Jul 14, 2020)

If you or someone has a lathe, turn some rod in that thread, harden it, making some poor-man's taps.

Come to think of it, since you're asking for this, it implies that you have a bunch of fasteners that screw into these holes (or are they nuts?) Anyway, depending on the number of holes you need to chase, you can use a few spare sacrificial screw "taps" to clean up the holes.


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

Most of the time it is cast iron I am chasing. One of the guys on this forum has offered to make a couple of chasers for me if I can't find the taps


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## BGHansen (Jul 14, 2020)

Here's a source:


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

I just ordered 2. I was a little surprised though it looks like a Chinese company at least that is who the money went to. I thought St James Tool Co was a US company? Well I will either receive the taps or I just donated to someones account. Ha Ha.


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

BGHansen said:


> Here's a source:
> 
> View attachment 330340


Thanks for the lead!


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

BGHansen said:


> Here's a source:
> 
> View attachment 330340


Has anyone ordered from this company. Something just doesn't seem right? St James Bay Tool Co is located in Arizona. When I placed the order it looks like the company I paid is maybe in China. Things are just not making sense?


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## darkzero (Jul 14, 2020)

mwebster51 said:


> Has anyone ordered from this company. Something just doesn't seem right? St James Bay Tool Co is located in Arizona. When I placed the order it looks like the company I paid is maybe in China. Things are just not making sense?



I haven't but that company isn't St James Bay Tool Co, it just says the brand of the tap is. Google says St James Bay Tool Co is permanently closed although I have seen this mistake with Google before. Their ebay store is still up.

This 12-20 tap search is very familiar. I remember a while back someone was also looking for them. IIRC they were also looking for 12-20 threaded rod. Can't remember if that was here or on another forum though.


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

On the St James Bay tool Co web site there are 2 phone numbers an 800 and a non 800. The 800 number takes you to an agressive sales pitch about Med Alert devices and the non 800 is not in service. I left a message on eBay to the seller but havn't received a return message.


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## pontiac428 (Jul 14, 2020)

mwebster51 said:


> Has anyone ordered from this company. Something just doesn't seem right? St James Bay Tool Co is located in Arizona. When I placed the order it looks like the company I paid is maybe in China. Things are just not making sense?



This is what you get to deal with when dredging the bottom of the internet.  It is also the reason companies like MSC and KBC exist- so you can turn your efforts into something other than a resource drain.  Also, with companies like MSC, you can call for off-catalog items and find out what the deal is with stock and wait times.


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## darkzero (Jul 14, 2020)

Are we talking about the LSteamerz website or St. James Bay Tool Co. In my post I was refering to LSteamerz.

I just looked up LSteamerz. Looks very fishy to me. Seems to be fairly new, no talk about them anywhere on the net, & they do not list any contact info. They list all sorts of random products. I'd be very hesitant to buy from them. Smells like a scam website to me.


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

We are talking about LSteamerz who in theory is selling the St James Tool Co product. There is no indication that one is dealing with someone out of the country until payment. I went through Paypal and when the payment completed it showed a bunch if I assume Chinese symbols saying that is who was receiving the money. So...web site looking like a distributer offering St James Tool Co product to American customers. So why would China be selling a product to American customers that is made in Arizona. I spoke to Paypal, and they will help if there is a problem. I have also contacted the company and asked to have the order cancelled.  We will see.


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

pontiac428 said:


> This is what you get to deal with when dredging the bottom of the internet.  It is also the reason companies like MSC and KBC exist- so you can turn your efforts into something other than a resource drain.  Also, with companies like MSC, you can call for off-catalog items and find out what the deal is with stock and wait times.


Yep!


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## pontiac428 (Jul 14, 2020)

mwebster51 said:


> Yep!



You know I had to ask, because the summation of the three threads on the subject seemed to point at you scrubbing the earth for a $4 Chinese tap.  

Gunsmiths tend to be meticulous machinists and also shy away from Chinese steel on principle.  The fact that many gun screws are "wildcats" would point to gunsmithing suppliers (Numrich, Brownell's) as sources of USA made taps.  A USA tap under 1/4", even a fistful of custom ones, should cost very little over $10 per each, so why even pursue taps from China?  Seems to me your recent experience with taps falling apart under mild use has not helped to persuade you in the right direction.

This response is a little on the harsh side for this forum, and I do feel a little bit bad for that.  Maybe I get annoyed with shopping for Chinese garbage metal on eBay and I'm projecting that on you (likely).   I just checked and Grainger says they can supply that tap,  item #4AKK9 on catalog page #2270 (the size is off-catalog, but is on the web).  "Grainger" is not an eBay seller, they are a big nationwide industrial parts supply house that sources domestically-manufactured tools and supplies and has an exchange policy as well as a 800 number with people on the other side who want do help give you their business.


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## darkzero (Jul 14, 2020)

Funny, I was watching a video the other day and there were some tools that were nothing more than steel yet they were made in USA w/ global materials. Really? I get power tools & stuff that have electronics in them made overseas but a metal tool? Companies really have to source the metal from China to make the tool here? That's so disappointing.

I just looked up Grangier #4AKK9, unfortunately that comes up as a Widia/Greenfield 1/2"-20, not #12-20. I remember searching for #12-20 taps & dies when this came up before (again not sure if it was here or on another forum). Looks like it's one of those thread sizes that are obselete & no longer used these days.


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

I appreciate your point. The thing is... the tap you are referring to is  at Grainger is 1/2-20. I have been trying to get a #12-20. It is not a size I have found being made in the US with the exception of sporatic production by companies like St James Bay.. and I am not 100% sure he makes it in house. I try to buy American made when I can.


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## pontiac428 (Jul 14, 2020)

darkzero said:


> ...
> 
> I just looked up Grangier #4AKK9, unfortunately that comes up as a Widia/Greenfield 1/2"-20, not #12-20. I remember searching for #12-20 taps & dies when this came up before (again not sure if it was here or on another forum). Looks like it's one of those thread sizes that are obselete & no longer used these days.



Well, my response to that is to open mouth and insert foot.  Shoulda known it wouldn't be that easy.


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## darkzero (Jul 14, 2020)

Mw, I'm sure you thought of this already but there are plenty of companies that will make specialty/custom taps. I'm sure you might have already thought it would be very expensive as I too would think but have you tried getting a quote just for the heck of it?

Regal who is a reputable tap manufacturer has a quote request form on their website. If you do get a quote, please share, I'm curious too.






						Special Taps | Custom Made Taps | Regal Cutting Tools
					

Regal Cutting Tools makes special taps within 24 hours. A special tap is a cutting tool that cuts internal threads. We can make a variety of special taps.




					www.regalcuttingtools.com


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

Yes I have gotten a quote from Tapco for a custom. It is pretty pricy even with purchasing 8-10 taps.  Thanks for the Regal link. I will check them out as well. I think I have a few taps coming my way at this point so I am good. But then I will likely eventually need replacements. I appreciate everyones input!


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## pontiac428 (Jul 14, 2020)

Out of curiosity, what did the custom grind end up costing/quoting?  Was there a quantity break point where the setup fees diminish as number goes up?


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

The #12-20 HS 1"OD Die    ( 3-4 weeks to make dies
1pc @ 146.90 , 2pc 111.80ea, 3pc  83.20ea,  6pc 62.40ea, 12pc  57.20ea

#12-20 Taps
9-11pc  36.38 ea
12pc    28.20ea
2-3 days to mfg taps


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## mwebster51 (Jul 14, 2020)

mwebster51 said:


> The #12-20 HS 1"OD Die    ( 3-4 weeks to make dies
> 1pc @ 146.90 , 2pc 111.80ea, 3pc  83.20ea,  6pc 62.40ea, 12pc  57.20ea
> 
> #12-20 Taps
> ...


The quote for the taps shows for 9-11pc $36.38 which isn't terrible but I don't know what 1 or 2 would cost unless I ask again.


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## darkzero (Jul 14, 2020)

If they were much less for those quanities I'd probably consider it to sell off the extras considering people seem to look for them & no one really has them. But at almost $40 ea, wouldn't be easy to sell & not much room to make any profit to pay for your time.


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## NortonDommi (Jul 14, 2020)

You could try    VOELKEL Threading solutions


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## springer (Jul 14, 2020)

It sounds like you may be on your way to getting some taps, but if not, I'd offer to heat treat some homemade ones. I dont have the time to make the tap itself, but if someone made them from tool steel and sent them my way, I could heat treat them and send to you. Not the best option, but maybe a last resort.


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## mwebster51 (Jul 15, 2020)

springer said:


> It sounds like you may be on your way to getting some taps, but if not, I'd offer to heat treat some homemade ones. I dont have the time to make the tap itself, but if someone made them from tool steel and sent them my way, I could heat treat them and send to you. Not the best option, but maybe a last resort.


Thank you very much I will keep that in mind. I am getting closer to finding some but if things don't work out I will check back. Thanks again


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## BGHansen (Jul 15, 2020)

mwebster51 said:


> Thanks for the lead!


I sure hope I didn't send you a bum lead.

Bruce


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## mwebster51 (Jul 15, 2020)

If you did, I know it wasn't intentional. It doesn't look like a legitamate company as things have progressed. Paypal will make it right eventually. Thanks for trying to help


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## BGHansen (Jul 16, 2020)

mwebster51 said:


> If you did, I know it wasn't intentional. It doesn't look like a legitamate company as things have progressed. Paypal will make it right eventually. Thanks for trying to help


I happened to type "12-20 Stanley tap" into eBay yesterday and there was a seller with one tap for $15.

Bruce


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## mwebster51 (Jul 16, 2020)

Thanks  bought one from him a few days ago and he said he had a couple more, one of which you are seeing listed. They are "vintage" and listed as used. I don't know how used. I was able to find 3 new ones from a distributer that had them on a shelf but weren't formally listed as in their current stock. I may pick up the eBay guy's if the one I ordered from him is not too worn. Thanks for thinking about me.


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## AmericanMachinist (Jul 19, 2020)

mwebster51 said:


> Thanks  bought one from him a few days ago and he said he had a couple more, one of which you are seeing listed. They are "vintage" and listed as used. I don't know how used. I was able to find 3 new ones from a distributer that had them on a shelf but weren't formally listed as in their current stock. I may pick up the eBay guy's if the one I ordered from him is not too worn. Thanks for thinking about me.



Wonder how hard it would be to sharpen them.  Like all things, probably depends on what equipment you have.  If its a straight flute tap i wonder if you could put together a fixture to dress the cutting edges.


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## mwebster51 (Jul 19, 2020)

I will take a look. I have no machining tools, other files etc. I may have a narrow slip stone. I am a woodworker.


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