# Ignorance is bliss...apparently!



## lazyLathe (Mar 14, 2012)

So i was browsing through some other forums gathering info and just wasting some time reading.
Clicked on PM and went through a few posts, i mostly read the South Bend forum there since they seem like an okay bunch.

On the front page was a thread titled "PM and Non-American members"
Caught my attention and i read through the post.

I could not believe what i was reading!!!!
Narrow closed minded people who bash other countries and then ask why they do not post there???
How dim witted can you be???

Anyway i had to have my say since i cannot let something like that go!
Coming from a third world country myself and having been to many countries less fortunate then my home country i sympathize with those less fortunate than myself.

If you fancy reading it here is a link: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/manufacturing-america-europe/pm-non-american-members-243240/

I am ready to be bashed there again but that is okay!
I stand firm in my beliefs and if they kick me off it is no great loss!

Andrew


----------



## Kennyd (Mar 14, 2012)

I won't click your link as I have no time for that place. How he actually get paid advertisers is beyond me.  The owner is a narrow-minded control freak to be polite.


----------



## lazyLathe (Mar 14, 2012)

I do not blame you for not clicking the link.
I have no time for them anymore as well!

There are a few good guys over there, mainly in the smaller forums and they do not get involved in any of the other discussions.
For the majority they are a bunch of small, like minded individuals.

As for paid advertisers, that is beyond me!

That is another reason why i love this forum so much!
Does not matter who you are, where you come from or what machines you use!
All are welcomed here!

Thanks for a great, understanding forum!!!

Andrew


----------



## jocat54 (Mar 14, 2012)

I also read that--and it made me mad to think of how narrow minded some are. There is a lot of it over there lots of narrow mindess--but I still read (skim) through the new posts trying to learn all I can. Don't much like the forum there but again I'm a newbie trying to learn. They really don't like newbies or home hobbyist there from what I've read.

FYI it's still going.


----------



## Rbeckett (Mar 15, 2012)

Lazy, 
That is why I am so glad that H-M is available.  Level headed socially acceptable and decent bunch hang out here.  PM is full of bigots and frauds.  No since fooling with em since I have no faith in what any of them say.  Everything from that site is subject.  If they would allow country bashing, is the machinig info they pass around just as biased?   So they are just better left alone.  I'll stay in my nice, fair home site.
Bob


----------



## ScrapMetal (Mar 15, 2012)

Mayhem said:


> I was not aware that Canada was a 3rd world country.



Is it even a country?  :lmao:  Sorry guys, you know us Americans.   (Hey, Red Green is supposed to be in nearby Lincoln, NE next week for a show! :thumbzup

Yeah, some of the guys over on PM are "wrapped a little tight" but there is still a lot of good people and information over there.  Personally there are only a couple of forums there that I frequent and those seem to be relatively "friendly".

-Ron


----------



## hq308 (Mar 15, 2012)

I had a quick look at that thread and I have to agree with 1200rpm as that's the way the original poster in that thread came across to me.


----------



## churchjw (Mar 16, 2012)

Ok I clicked the link :banghead:  The good thing about it is it reminds me why I like this group so much.  I value the fact that we come from so many backgrounds and cultures.  I think it would be supper cool if we had more people from even more diverse view points.  I would love a chance to hear what people from all around the world that create and build things have to say. The big shock that I never knew is that Chinese (I guess all Asian) machines are band.  :shocked:  What that says to me is they don't want anyone in their club that doesn't have the right amount of money.  Because its not about where a machine is built it is about how much it cost (in time rebuilding it or in up front payment).  If there was a USA made mill for $2,000 it would be the same quality as the Chinese one.  Lets face it it cost money to build quality.  I have a long rant about this but it just makes me tired and the people here don't care.  Which is why I love it here.  So I am going to go read more great project post then go make some chips.      Thanks to everyone here for making this a great place to be.   

Jeff


----------



## lazyLathe (Mar 16, 2012)

To be quite honest, i have nothing against Gordon.
I do not eve know him.

But... the post has been changed.

This was removed from the post and he changed a lot of the wording to make it more acceptable...

Statements like this: "I'd rather compete with a foreigner on price and quality than send financial aid to stop them from starving."

I copied that from his original post and added it to mine.

Anyway it has been changed,

Still do not know why they would post something like that?

Andrew


----------



## "Mike" (Mar 17, 2012)

*Bliss?*

I didn't read the mentioned post and won't but I will say that at least in THIS country(and a lot of others,  I know)  you have the right to your opinion.  I can be a real a$$ sometime(OK,  most of the time) but I have the right to my opinion and so does this guy.  You may not like it,  I may not like it.  If you don't like it,  don't read it. Or, if you know you don't like HIS comments about things,  DON'T GO THERE!  Simple.  I like the people here,  mostly nice guys.  Very level headed but you KNOW,  sooner or later,  SOMEBODY is going to rub SOMEBODY the wrong way.  It's the way of the world.   That's what makes the world diverse.  Many people, many opinions.   Ok,  I will now step away from the microphone!   MIke.


----------



## Hawkeye (Mar 17, 2012)

Mr Fox. Thanks for your comments. They caused me to go to the provided link and read every post in the thread. I now have a new and, I think, realistic understanding of some of the reasons for policies on the PM forum. I didn't find anything that would qualify as a put-down of any person from any country, with the possible exception of spammers (spit).

I think, if we were inundated with posts about industrial applications (how to speed up high-volume runs, etc.), we would be talking about how to get this forum back to those things that interest us - one-offs and other hobby-related issues. I read that they aren't so defensive against machines from any particular country as against machines that have no place in industrial applications. Those machines just happen to come from the disparaged countries.

The historic problem was that those starting out in machining as a hobby had no place to go for constructive help. That problem has since been answered by the careful development of this forum. All those involved, past and present, are to be congratulated for making this the best forum on the planet (that I know of) for machinists in _our_ area of interest. While this forum was birthed out of a set of unpleasant circumstances, I have to say that I'm glad it happened. I love it here. :thumbzup::thumbzup::thumbzup:


----------



## HMF (Mar 18, 2012)

lazylathe said:


> To be quite honest, i have nothing against Gordon.
> I do not eve know him.
> 
> But... the post has been changed.
> ...





Guys,

I have to step in here- my apologies to Gordon for not doing so sooner, but I have been very busy. We've picked on Gordon for something that happened on another site, and we just don't do that here. We don't pick on each other, and we don't bring things over "there" to here.

My apologies to you Gordon, we don't want anyone to feel singled out or picked on here at H-M, because that brings us down to the level of other forums. I'm not picking on anyone, but we have to think about what we are and what they are before we single anyone out, and then act accordingly. In the past, I have been the worst offender and violator of this rule, which ironically, *I* made, and I have been trying to do better.

Please, let's try to do better in future.
We don't want anyone to feel picked on at H-M - that isn't right. We're better than that.

If you want to discuss prejudices, that's fine.
Please don't single anyone out.

For example, my pet peeve is prejudices against foreign stuff.
Don't get me wrong, I go out of my way (and spend more!) to buy American stuff, because it helps OUR workers.
But, I also own Asian stuff, and I can tell you that I am pretty well-satisfied by what I bought.

You guys have heard me rant about my little Enco Drill Press from 35 years ago.
Both Chief and I have one- we paid about $100 for them around 1978 or 1979.
When I left my parents' house, I put it on my shoulder (I was younger and stronger then!) and brought it with me to the house my girl and I bought together. The thing was made in Taiwan, which is where cheap stuff was made back then, and, with the exception of a few minor things, nothing has broken, and it works like a dream for me. $125 for 35 years of good service- $3.50 per year. Can I complain? I think not.


:tiphat:Nelson


----------

