# Road Trip To Pm And Grizzly



## GarageWrench (Jul 16, 2015)

I live just outside of Detroit, my wife and I are taking a road trip to PM this Friday and should be at Grizzly (hope its ok to mention that on this forum) this Saturday in PA. The whole purpose is to help me decide between the PM-932M or the G0755 mills. Im ready to pull the trigger and narrowed my decision down to these two mills, based on cost, size and weight. 

Cant wait to hit the road and take some time off work (its been over a year) and be free of the rat race for a few days. I know the state of PA is beautiful, especially looking forward to the drive from Pitt to Muncy through the hills on the east side of the state.

The reason for the post is to hear some of your opinions on my decision I need to make between those two mills. Trust many of you have an opinion and looking forward to reading what you have to say.

Really enjoy The Hobby-Machinest Forum, been a blessing. Oh ya, one more thing, have a nice weekend while I'm driving around beautiful PA, with no worries and no time clock, checking out new mechines and being a vagabond for several days  (hehe). 

"Buck" GarageWrench


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## TomS (Jul 16, 2015)

GarageWrench said:


> I live just outside of Detroit, my wife and I are taking a road trip to PM this Friday and should be at Grizzly (hope its ok to mention that on this forum) this Saturday in PA. The whole purpose is to help me decide between the PM-932M or the G0755 mills. Im ready to pull the trigger and narrowed my decision down to these two mills, based on cost, size and weight.
> 
> Cant wait to hit the road and take some time off work (its been over a year) and be free of the rat race for a few days. I know the state of PA is beautiful, especially looking forward to the drive from Pitt to Muncy through the hills on the east side of the state.
> 
> ...



I have the PM932M that I converted to CNC.  It's a very good quality mill and the three year warranty is a nice feature.  The cast iron vs. a sheet metal pedestal is also good to have.  l Don't know anything about the Grizzly mill but I did have a G4000 lathe and have a Griz 6" rotary table and I have no complaints about either.

Good luck with whatever mill you choose..

Tom S


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## Bray D (Jul 16, 2015)

One thing I'm curious to know, is if the saddle on the Grizzly is fully supported by the base at the limits of Y travel. My 932m saddle cantilevers off the front of the base at max Y. After it cantilevers so far, the set screw for the Y hand wheel dial hits the saddle - limiting travel. You can go further than that if you loosen the set screw and keep the dial stationary, but then you lose your travel reference. 

Hasn't been an issue for any of my projects so far, but something to keep in mind for sure.


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## brav65 (Jul 16, 2015)

I hope you have a great trip Buck.  You should talk to Matt about the PM-940 in addition to the 932.  Seems like a lot more machine for $500, with the power feeds etc...


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## qualitymachinetools (Jul 16, 2015)

Unfortunately, I will not be here tomorrow after 10am. But I will have one of the guys show you a machine here, no problem there at all.
  And yes the 940 is a larger model, you can see the type of machine that the 940 is though, same factory as the 932, just larger. 
  And also, yes, the Grizzly Y axis is the same, if you travel all the way until it stops at the handle, it will do the same thing. Its not a problem, there was just no reason to put a stop on it when without it, you can get that little bit of extra travel out of it if you need it. 
 The 940 is completely a different casting and everything much larger, but I would not have any of those available to look at until early next week when I am back.  

  There will be a similar mill from Taiwan sitting behind the 932M, you can take a look at that one too and see the differences in them. 
  I am here just about every day, all day, but unfortunately not tomorrow.


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## Bray D (Jul 16, 2015)

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## qualitymachinetools (Jul 16, 2015)

Yes, it will be exactly the same as what you have picture there. The table is wider than the travel is.

 The 940 will have 12" Cross travel, with the same table width of 9", so it will have more working room that way too


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## MBfrontier (Jul 17, 2015)

Hey, GarageWrench.

If you use a GPS in your vehicle you might want to set it to avoid toll roads. If you don't, you will end up paying about $12.00 in tolls one way that you can easily avoid. I ended up paying the PA tolls for a very short distance (I think it was only about 8 or 9 miles) when I went there from northeast Ohio. I set the GPS to avoid toll roads on the way back and paid no tolls and it was better scenery as well. Of course, you could use a map but I drove there alone. Enjoy your trip.


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## toddimus (Jul 17, 2015)

Buck,

Disclaimer:  I have no affiliation to PM other than being a recent, very satisfied customer.

One thing to consider with your purchase is the "intangible" benefits of buying from PM... the awesome customer support.  This is tough to quantify in terms of a difference in purchase price, but in my estimation it's worth quite a bit.

I just bought a PM25 mill and PM1228 lathe from Matt.  Both shipments arrived with the crates looking like they survived the trip very well.  However, upon inspection, I found the lathe's chip tray to be bent, as well as a few other little things wrong with the machines.  I sent Matt an email late Saturday afternoon Pacific time (late evening his time), detailing what I found and asking a few questions about the machines.  I figured he would get to my email early in the following week.  To my surprise, he replied within the hour!  He offered to send me a new chip tray as well as a few other parts that needed to be swapped out.

I haven't ever bought stuff from Grizzly, but I doubt they (or many other Chinese machine resellers) would take the time on a Saturday evening to personally address any issues.  To me, this is tough to put a value on but it makes me very happy with my decision to buy from PM.  These are "cheap-ish" Chinese or Taiwanese machines that don't have rigorous inspections performed on them before they are shipped out to you.  I imagine the factories that build them have rather questionable (read that as lacking) quality control policies in order to keep costs down.  That includes machines from PM too, because they are under the same cost constraints as the next guy!  The insurance against this minimal inspection and potential build quality issue is to buy from someone who will stand behind their product.

I'm sure there are other vendors of machines out there that provide a similar customer service experience that Matt does, but I don't know who they are.  I would venture to guess that Grizzly wouldn't come close to Matt's attention to his customers.  Again, I have no personal experience in this realm other than my recent purchase from PM, but I have read horror stories on the forums about customer support and machines bought from the larger resellers (including "big green").

That's my $0.02.  Hope I helped make your decision easier and didn't offend anyone from the "green machine" camp.  

p.s.  get the PM940.  That's the one I wish I had the money and shop space for!


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## brav65 (Jul 17, 2015)

Let me add my $.02 in addition to Todd. I have had exactly the same experience with Matt responding to my questions on weekends and even during Holidays. Over Christmas I sent an email expecting a response the following week and Matt responded. I actually felt guilty bothering him on a holiday with a trivial problem.  I am a customer for life at this point.


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## T Bredehoft (Jul 17, 2015)

Ditto, 4th of July weekend.  A new control card resulted, no cost. Solved two or three problems, including forward/reverse.


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## springer (Jul 17, 2015)

Not that matt needs any more testimony, but I find it very impressive that matt replies to all emails himself and very quickly as well. I've had several emails back and forth within the same evening with him. Sure beats emailing and waiting/checking emails hoping to get a reply from someone within a week.  Beyond that, I've been very impressed with the quality of his machines and service after the sale.


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## GarageWrench (Jul 20, 2015)

Ok, I'm back from my road trip 2015, and it was a success. Made it to Quality Machine Tools and Grizzly. Had a chance to meet and speak with Matt for a little bit and we went over a PM-932M-PDF that is set up in his shop. He also told me that the PM-940M is coming in very soon. The 932 was under power so it was very cool hear it and see it run through the PDF, table feed and gear changes. Deftly not as loud as I thought, a very nice machine and  good size to it also. So happy I went there to see it, Matt is a perfect gentleman answered all my lamo questions with patience. 

The Grizzly store is off the hook! There inventory is very impressive, machines and tooling. They did have the G0755 in the show room, but nothing under power. I ask sales rep if I could run the table screws and he said I could do what ever I wanted to any of the machines, very friendly and very clean there. There was a G0755 in the scratch/dent section with full warranty and $100 off, it had no crate and was pickup only.

Hey Bray D, the Pm-932M and the G0755 are almost identical machines, I noticed the table and head travel look to be the same in relation to the mounting at the dove tail. I forgot my tape measure to compare but visually the same. One difference is the buttons on the panel, the PM head up and down are the push buttons, the 755 is the three position rotary type switch, seems the two companies just switched the functions of those switches on the panels. Im almost certain they are same machine, also noticed the pedestal for the Grizzly is cast and not sheet metal.

Well here is where I'm at with my decision now;
1) I have a 5% coupon off total purchase at Grizzly
2) The two machines are the same, the 0755 being about $50 more w/shipping
3) The 940 is coming in at around $650 more w/shipping compared to the 932, which maxis out the budget, meaning no tooling purchases for a while
4) 3 year verses 1 year warranties 

So thats where I'm at, still thinking about where to put my hard earned money down at, and yes my wife is cool with whatever I do, not an issue there. For all of you who live in PA, I LOVE YOUR STATE!! Its beautiful, I wish I had been on my Harley going through those hills. 

Buck
"GarageWrench"


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## mksj (Jul 20, 2015)

What size machine you get depends on what you plan on doing with it. Still, I would recommend going with the 940 which has 4" more of Y travel, I am always running out of Y travel on my bench top mill which has ~8" of Y travel (and may be less if you end up putting a DRO scale on the back of the table).  Then there is the question if you go with the PDF version, probably leave off at this budget level.

A 3 year warranty and ability to get parts is a real plus, if anything for peace of mind.


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## wrmiller (Jul 20, 2015)

+1 to what mksj said. I too wrestled with these decisions and decided to go with a machine that has the largest Y travel I could get within my personal limitations, because the first machine I bought was too small for some things (wasn't when I bought it, but the 'scale' of some projects grew a bit). This was done so I could afford to buy some tooling right away. Knee jerk decision on my part. I was running into the 7" limitations on my little machine more often than I cared for, and have yet to have the same problem with the big guy. Borrowed a neighbor's 10" rotary table once to make some holes on a 9" piece of round stock. Still had no problems. That 10" rotary was too dang heavy though.


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## Bray D (Jul 20, 2015)

Awesome! Glad to hear you had a great trip. Thanks for the feedback!

I'll jump on the bandwagon and say you'll appreciate the additional travel if you splurge on the 940. I haven't found the limits of mine yet, but I've come awfully close a couple times.

I don't think PDF is absolutely necessary, but I'm not boring critical surfaces either. Most of my boring applications are to achieve a particular fit with a bearing race, or to simply open up a hole to a size that I don't have a particular cutter for. I'm not sure I'd try to tackle a boring job that required a nice surface finish for sliding contact. That could very much be a function of my limited experience as well, though.

Regarding tooling - will the tooling from your round column mill work to get you started? I was worried about funds for tooling when I bought my machine as well, however I always found a way to rationalize a tool purchase when necessary. I wish I wouldn't have fretted as much about tooling during my initial machine purchase. The tooling will come with time.

3yr vs 1yr warranty is pretty substantial. That being said, a large distribution facility with machines/replacement parts on hand has its benefits as well. These are tough decisions.

I've never operated a machine with a sheet metal base, but I feel like my cast base adds substantial rigidity to the entire setup. I would opt for the heavier base regardless of the manufacturer if you have the choice.


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## springer (Jul 21, 2015)

If it were me, i'd spend more on the bigger machine.  you can get quite a bit done with a couple of collets and a few end mills for now.  you can always buy more tooling later, but it is a lot harder to buy more X/Y travel later.


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## GarageWrench (Jul 22, 2015)

Just mailed a check to Matt for a new PM-940M!!


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## brav65 (Jul 22, 2015)

GarageWrench said:


> Just mailed a check to Matt for a new PM-940M!!



Now I'm jealous!  Congratulations!


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## springer (Jul 22, 2015)

Jealous!!!


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## Bray D (Jul 22, 2015)

I'm anxious to see the new 940! You made a good decision for sure.


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## 65BAJA (Jul 22, 2015)

Did Matt say what the lead time was on the 940?


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## FOMOGO (Jul 23, 2015)

Congratulations on your purchase, doubt you will regret getting the larger machine. There is some pretty country in PA. Just ordered new tires for the bike. After my last ride I had cord showing on the rear. Planning on any bike parts with the new toy? Mike


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## GarageWrench (Jul 23, 2015)

65BAJA said:


> Did Matt say what the lead time was on the 940?


Yes 65BAJA, he is recieving them this week I think


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## GarageWrench (Jul 23, 2015)

FOMOGO said:


> Congratulations on your purchase, doubt you will regret getting the larger machine. There is some pretty country in PA. Just ordered new tires for the bike. After my last ride I had cord showing on the rear. Planning on any bike parts with the new toy? Mike


FOMOGO, that's what I do in my shop, build choppers and engines, the 940 is a huge upgrade from my round column. I try to build everything I can in house, lots of fun, very little profit, haha!

Buck


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## FOMOGO (Jul 24, 2015)

Quote: I try to build everything I can in house, lots of fun, very little profit, haha!ote:

 I can definitely relate. My wallet would be quite a bit thicker if I had a few less projects, but hey the labor is cheap.   Mike


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