# The PM-1236T vs PM-1340GT dilemma



## litewings (Dec 26, 2019)

Very close to ordering one or the other but on the verge of a nervous breakdown trying to decide. It will be replacing a 3in1 machine that has been a pain in my --- since the day it arrived 6 years ago. Will be used at work occasionally for building small parts and for pleasure working on guns and other things. I won't be using it daily and conservatively estimate 10-20 hours a month use, some months maybe not at all. That being said, I'm not sure I would see the benefit of the hardened gears in the 1340.  Does the 1340GT run smoother/quieter then the 1296T? Thoughts? Somebody knock me off the fence please!


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## wrmiller (Dec 26, 2019)

IMO the primary difference between the two is the additional working envelope, weight, and rigidity that the 1340GT may have over the 1236T.

For critical long gun (barrel) work, the 1340GT might have the advantage but I don't know for sure as I seldom do long gun work but I do cut on a lot of barrels for pistols. 

As I've not run a 1236T I can't speak to the smoother/quieter part of your question.


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## litewings (Dec 26, 2019)

I wondered about the rigidity difference between the two also. The 1340 being 250lbs heavier for 4 inches more length and a little taller headstock. Seems it must be built more substantial in other places too. I'm getting a list of questions for QMT


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## pstemari (Dec 26, 2019)

I would check to see if Matt can still get the ERL-1340. That's what I wound up with when I started looking at those, and I have absolutely no regrets.

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## ddickey (Dec 26, 2019)

The 1340 also has hardened ways. Probably not a big deal since it will see very light use.
You're looking at ~13k for the ERL-TV. not a great lathe for gunsmithing


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## wrmiller (Dec 26, 2019)

litewings said:


> I wondered about the rigidity difference between the two also. The 1340 being 250lbs heavier for 4 inches more length and a little taller headstock. Seems it must be built more substantial in other places too. I'm getting a list of questions for QMT



If you can, talk to Matt. He has never steered me wrong.


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## mksj (Dec 26, 2019)

Functionally I do not think you would see much difference, they are made by the same factory and the original manual showed both. I had the 1340GT, very nice lathe, you will not be limited by the machine and these will hold close tolerance work. Weight is an advantage, but the 1236T is just a slightly shrunken version of the 1340GT so should not be any rigidity difference or differences in ability. Slightly smaller Hp motor and 3 year warranty on the 1236T instead of 5 year. I do not expect you would have any long term problems with either, I sold my 1340GT after having it for 7 years and probably it was just getting broken in when I sold it, never had any problems with it. If anything some of the feed controls were a bit stiff until they are worn in. I currently have an ERL-1340, but much more expensive and headstock is about 4" wider than the 1340GT. If your planning on doing mostly small work, you can't go wrong with either the 1236T or 1340GT, not much else out there that is the same quality at the price level. I liked the 1340GT just because it was a bit bigger than a 1236, foot print wise they will be about the same. The 1K price difference can get you a QCTP, DRO and maybe a better chuck. Really depends on how tight of budget you are working off of. Chucks have been discussed quite a bit, if you plan on using a 3J scroll, consider upgrading to the Chandox Taiwanese Set-Tru type, otherwise their 4J independent is very good quality at the price point.

I went with the 3 phase version with a VFD, I feel you get better surface finish and less long term motor problems seen with single phase motors. Starting out with the 2 Hp motor is probably a better option with a VFD, gives you more usable torque and Hp. You also get fast braking with a VFD, which was one of my concerns with not having a mechanical foot brake.


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## litewings (Dec 26, 2019)

The ERL-1340 is out of my budget for sure as little as I'll probably be doing with the machine. I originally was decided on the 1236T but of course started checking on the next step up. I just don't know if its worth the $1k extra step for my occasional needs. I first started looking a step up because of the larger motor more than the increased work size capabilities. I will definitely be installing the VFD.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 26, 2019)

While there may be some hard to quantify differences, the black and white differences are: 
Similarly equipped +$1500 (1236T vs 1340GT + PEP, the base 1236T includes more stuff than the base 1340GT)
1340 provides +1" swing
+1/2" over the cross slide
+4" between centers
+1/2hp
+2 years warranty (3 vs 5)

1340 is 250lbs heavier but also larger so probably not a great deal more rigid

Beyond that they are essentially identical with the same bed width, spindle bore and D1-4 cam-lock mount, 12 speeds 90-1600 RPM, same travel on compound and cross slide etc.

That $1500 savings means for the same price you could get the 1236T with stand, installed DRO and a QCTP. 

The 1440 is a big jump in capacity over either the 1236 or 1340 with a larger spindle bore, much more weight etc. But not a huge difference between the 1236T and 1340GT. For the price the 1236T looks like the better value to me unless I'm missing something.


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## middle.road (Dec 27, 2019)

I'd go with the 1340, just because of the larger envelope. Especially if there is the slightest chance you'll need the extra 4".
Buy Once - Cry Once?


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## litewings (Dec 27, 2019)

Thanks for the input all. Still not decided. Have till Monday to make a decision.


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## Janderso (Dec 27, 2019)

1340 all day long.


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## mikey (Dec 27, 2019)

They are essentially the same lathe except that the 1340GT has a hardened and ground spindle and gears, while the 1236T does not. This translates to a longer service life and quieter and more accurate running over time. If you are not in a high volume setting then this may not matter to you because I doubt you would see a difference in performance. Keep in mind that most American "old iron" lathes did not have hardened spindles and gears and they have lasted for decades.


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## wrmiller (Dec 27, 2019)

I would think that properly ground and hardened gears would 'print' less than those that are not. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but my 1340GT with the VFD pushing a 3-phase motor (smoother than a single-phase) can put a mirror surface on a turned part if I do everything correctly. 

My lathe does not run every day. Sometimes it may not even run once in a weeks time. Other weeks I'm on it 4-5 times. But I wanted the more robust spindle and gears on a decent quality lathe so the darn thing outlasts me. I can't afford to replace it.


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## Dabbler (Dec 27, 2019)

My first lathe was a brand new  12X37 made in Taiwan  Althought I've turned some really big things on it, it didn't part all that well, and the threaded spindle limited me on some projects.  I even swung 4"X2"X3" aluminum  billets off-centre with the 4 jaw chuck, and managed to do good work.  However the belt change and the parting problems and smaller bearings that heated up quickly limited my lathe time and was a pain...  (750 lbs 1.5 HP)

So I bought a used 14X40 gear head with a  D1-4 camlock spindle.  Chinese made, instead of Taiwan in the 12X37.  Other minor shortcomings, but a good lathe nonetheless.  More (sorta) than I would need. However it was used harder than I do, and not maintained at all.  Lots of fixin' to do. (1600 lbs, 3HP)

THEN I got a chance on a used 15X60 LeBlond 7.5 HP at 3400 lbs in showroom condition.  A bunch of easily corrected quirks, but a real solid lathe.  But will I sell the other 2?  _Probably _the 14X40 (once it is fully fixed), as it is now redundant. The 12X37 has a LOT of tooling, including 3 different tool posts, and even if it is a pain to use, I still love my first machine tool.  sigh.  The guy I bought the LeBlond from used his SB 9A right until the end, even with the LeBlond right beside it.  Goes to show that small lathes can be great, even when you have a bigger one.

Moral  of the story:  if all things are (nearly) equal *Buy the Best quality you can afford*.


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## ch2co (Dec 28, 2019)

If you have room for it. 
if you have the deeper pocketbook for it. 
Get the bigger one.
Lessons learned by an old man.


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## litewings (Dec 29, 2019)

Thanks for the input from everyone. The guidance based on hands on experience is very valuable. At this moment, If the 1296t was a 2hp, I would be ordering it for sure. I have some concern adding a VFD to the 1.5hp motor could be short on power in the lower range on the 1296. So,,,,, decision still not made, but leaning 1340GT.


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## erikmannie (Dec 29, 2019)

When I have this dilemma, I choose the more expensive option.


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## El Matador (Dec 29, 2019)

One thing to consider if you plan on doing a VFD is you can get a wider range of RPMs by upgrading the motor to an inverter type.  They run around $300-350 for a 2HP.  I'm looking at the same 2 machines and I've considered buying a single-phase 1236T and running it for a while that way.  Then when I feel up to tackling the VFD install I could throw on the 2HP 3-phase inverter motor.


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## litewings (Dec 29, 2019)

I thought about this too. Actually looking at 2hp motors now for that instance and price checking. My question doing this, are the rest of the components in the electrical box of sufficient size to handle the change from 1.5hp to 2hp motor?


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## litewings (Dec 29, 2019)

I do plan on starting out with 3 phase and a VFD on either machine I get


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## mksj (Dec 30, 2019)

A VFD conversion does not use the electrical cabinet contactors to switch the motor wires, the motor is directly connected to the VFD. See the "basic 1340GT VFD conversion" thread for details of how this is done, also QMT has some info they provide. The motor space is very limited in the 1236/1340GT models there are only a few TENV motors with a 145 frame size that will fit, a TEFC will not fit. The stock 2 Hp motor is quite decent and provides plenty of usable speed range, typically 20-100 Hz, I also recommend flipping the motor pulley and running it from the large motor pulley to the large headstock pulley (requires a longer belt) and running the belt as a single belt speed.  Since you have a 6 speed headstock, you do not need extend the motor speed range. If one wanted to replace the stock motor then you would need to replace the motor pulley anyway with a 2.4-2.6" single pulley (stock is 3/4" and most 145 frame motors are 7/8"). You would run the inverter/vector motor from 20-125 Hz. Worthwhile if you have a single phase motor, not so cost effective if you have the stock 2 Hp 3 phase motor. You gain a bit more usable speed range and the speed stability running the VFD in sensorless vector mode you go from +/-5 RPM to something like +/-1 RPM speed variation. So the stock motor is pretty decent and works well paired with a decent quality VFD.

The alternate motors has been previously outlined, you can do a search example:








						1340gt surface finish problem
					

I figured out how to get into Super Macro mode, these aren't very good but they're closer:)




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				



"If going to a 3 phase motor, there are a very limited number of 2Hp 3 phase motors that will fit, and they all require some redrilling of the mounting holes motor/mount to fit and a different pulley (or bore the stock one to 7/8"). These motors are all TENV, these are ones that others have used Marathon E467, Y551, Y526. The Y551 and Y526 have a small encoder shaft on the back of the motor that needs to be cut off." In addition the Baldor IDNM3587T if you can find one inexpensively, the back encoder shaft is cut off with a hacksaw, you may also need to do some trimming of the belt cover.  All these motor conversions were done on the 1340GT, not sure if the 2 Hp will fit on the 1236GT, as you can see it is a tight fit. I would use the stock 3 phase motor first and then see if you want to switch it out, at the end of the day individuals tend to overthink all the what if's before they actually start using the lathe. I would use the Hitachi WJ200-015SF VFD which is 2 Hp for all these motors, it works well and there is a lot of experience using the it.






With the 1340GT you get better a much better chuck, with the PEP package, so you are looking at a 1K difference if you take out the chuck. The 1236 comes with an "economy chuck", you get what you pay for, it would be the first thing that would become a doorstop for me.   Start adding a motor, your time, etc. and the difference becomes smaller. Then, start adding up all the tooling/chucks, which would be the same for 1236/1340GT and it all adds up quickly, the overall cost difference becomes smaller.


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## litewings (Dec 30, 2019)

OK. Dilemma is over, nervous breakdown avoided for now. Just ordered the 1340GT PEP package.


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## wrmiller (Dec 30, 2019)

It's a pretty darn good lathe. I think you'll like it.


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## daveog (May 1, 2020)

I'm going through this same thing right this second. The only difference between the two is the weight, size, gears, and warranty. Matt said the 1236T with 3ph motor is the exact same 2hp that is on the 1340. I priced them both out with accessories, a DRO, and the same 3 jaw that comes with the 1340 PEP and its about a $1,000 difference. I don't think I'll EVER need those 4 inches, but my stupid male mind says I have to have the bigger one and hardened gears. My sense tells me to save my $1,000 because I'll probably never notice the difference in use. ARGHHHH!!! I want to tell Matt today.


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## mksj (May 1, 2020)

I was not aware that it is the same motor, the spec's say 1.5 Hp on the 1236GT and 2.0 Hp on the 1340GT.  The 1340GT will have a little more swing, and probably fit oversized QCTP holders with 3/4" holders. I did use some 3/4" holders on my 1340GT. Not sure anybody is going to wear out the gears in their lifetime, but if you are doing more high speed work it may be give you more peace of mind with hardened gears. Not sure as to what comes with the PEP packages, stands, etc. Also inventory, as it seems numerous models from different manufactures are on back order and I would expect longer than usual delays. There are a few other upgrades to consider such as Chandox set-tru chuck, Aloris QCTP, etc.

I probably would opt. for the 1340GT if this is going to be a long term keeper, save some money on doing some things yourself (like installing a DRO if you go that route). Look at spreading out getting additional tooling accessories.


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## daveog (May 1, 2020)

mksj said:


> I was not aware that it is the same motor, the spec's say 1.5 Hp on the 1236GT and 2.0 Hp on the 1340GT.  The 1340GT will have a little more swing, and probably fit oversized QCTP holders with 3/4" holders. I did use some 3/4" holders on my 1340GT. Not sure anybody is going to wear out the gears in their lifetime, but if you are doing more high speed work it may be give you more peace of mind with hardened gears. Not sure as to what comes with the PEP packages, stands, etc. Also inventory, as it seems numerous models from different manufactures are on back order and I would expect longer than usual delays. There are a few other upgrades to consider such as Chandox set-tru chuck, Aloris QCTP, etc.
> 
> I probably would opt. for the 1340GT if this is going to be a long term keeper, save some money on doing some things yourself (like installing a DRO if you go that route). Look at spreading out getting additional tooling accessories.



Matt said the 1.5hp is the single phase but the 3ph comes with the 2hp. I’ve pricedthe 1236T with the same chuck as comes in the 1340 PEP and still about a grand difference. I’ll only ever be an occasional user so I doubt I’ll wear out the gears and I cut primarily stainless steel and titanium at slow speeds.

What do you mean by Aloris QCTP, the 1340 doesn’t come with that, does it?


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## 1silica (May 1, 2020)

daveog said:


> I'm going through this same thing right this second. The only difference between the two is the weight, size, gears, and warranty. Matt said the 1236T with 3ph motor is the exact same 2hp that is on the 1340. I priced them both out with accessories, a DRO, and the same 3 jaw that comes with the 1340 PEP and its about a $1,000 difference. I don't think I'll EVER need those 4 inches, but my stupid male mind says I have to have the bigger one and hardened gears. My sense tells me to save my $1,000 because I'll probably never notice the difference in use. ARGHHHH!!! I want to tell Matt today.


I was in this exact same place last fall, paid the extra and went with the 1340. My logic: This is the last lathe I will ever buy. I've never been upset or disappointed because I bought "too good" of a tool. My brother, gift yourself what you really want.


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## litewings (May 1, 2020)

Can't say what the 1236T would be like, but extremely happy with the 1340GT. Cost more yes but I'm not missing the money after using it for a while.


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## daveog (May 1, 2020)

Lol! You guys aren’t making me feel better about trying to save money! Though I do appreciate the honest advice. Matt keeps telling me to get the 1236T. He says there is no rigidity difference and the both perform the same. He said he has an older 1340 without the hardened gears they use every day and it still looks like new. He said the only real reason to get the 1340 is if you need the extra 4”. Need them? Probably not, but my man instincts tell me I do.


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## Dabbler (May 1, 2020)

If you are doing barrel work on 24" barrels. you will appreciate the '40.  If that and other large projects are not in your (estimated) future, then save the grand and use it for tooling later.  MY 12X37 has nearly 2K in tooling  (I do a wide range of work).

I upgraded from the 12" because of the screw on chuck and the belt drive.  the 1236 doesn't have these limitations.


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## daveog (May 1, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> If you are doing barrel work on 24" barrels. you will appreciate the '40.  If that and other large projects are not in your (estimated) future, then save the grand and use it for tooling later.  MY 12X37 has nearly 2K in tooling  (I do a wide range of work).
> 
> I upgraded from the 12" because of the screw on chuck and the belt drive.  the 1236 doesn't have these limitations.


I do all my chambering through the headstock, so the best limitation really won’t impact me unless I’m doing a barrel over 1.5” in diameter.


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## daveog (May 1, 2020)

Here's the deal, Matt has machines inbound and I want to get one ordered and setup asap. I want a DRO for sure and I don't want to install it because I hate dealing with them...VFD, sure...DRO, no thanks. He doesn't have any glass scale DROs for the 1340 in stock but has mag scale DRO's for it. The mag scale DRO is $200 bucks more than the glass. He does have glass scales in stock for the 1236t though. I've heard that the mag scales can be laggy in reading. I definitely don't want to deal with lag. 

Matt continues to tell me the two machines run identically. He said he's run them both a lot and can't tell a difference between the two. He recommends saving the money and getting the 1236T.


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## JMhead (May 1, 2020)

I started a thread earlier this week basically wanting to know the exact same thing. Matt told me the same thing he told you. The 1236t is a 4” shorter 1340gt. Motors perform the same. I just mailed a check for a loaded up 1236T. Why not get a 1340, it’s just $1500 more, or a 1440 Chinese for roughly the same price, or just jump up to the 1440gt. Or maybe go even bigger......  where does it end. For me I looked at MY needs and then I chose the best made PM lathe that fit my needs as advised by Matt and a couple of other very knowledgeable posters.  I know I’ll be happy with a great machine. My point is you can get a little more machine, and a little more than that one, it never ends


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## daveog (May 1, 2020)

That's very true.


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## mksj (May 1, 2020)

Magnetic scales are not buggy, they are less prone to issues than glass scales although they both work well. If you plan to use any coolant go with magnetic scales, you want a 1 micron on the cross slide. The DRO is the same as that sold by DRO Pros, they are very reliable. I use 4 axis magnetic scales on my mill and a combination of glass and magnetic on the lathe.  The magnetic scales are an easier install and more forgiving, but to each their own. The lathes are the same between the two (same manufacturer), the headstock would be different. If you plan to go with a VFD I would opt for the 2 Hp 3 phase motor, you get Hp loss below the motor base speed. I have had a few cases where I was swinging a part in a 4J chuck and it was nice to have the extra swing on the 1340GT, but never needed the length.


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## daveog (May 1, 2020)

mksj said:


> Magnetic scales are not buggy, they are less prone to issues than glass scales although they both work well. If you plan to use any coolant go with magnetic scales, you want a 1 micron on the cross slide. The DRO is the same as that sold by DRO Pros, they are very reliable. I use 4 axis magnetic scales on my mill and a combination of glass and magnetic on the lathe.  The magnetic scales are an easier install and more forgiving, but to each their own. The lathes are the same between the two (same manufacturer), the headstock would be different. If you plan to go with a VFD I would opt for the 2 Hp 3 phase motor, you get Hp loss below the motor base speed. I have had a few cases where I was swinging a part in a 4J chuck and it was nice to have the extra swing on the 1340GT, but never needed the length.


According to Matt, they both come with the same 2hp motor in 3 phase.


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## Dabbler (May 1, 2020)

@daveog I don't want to mess you up, but putting a VFD on a lathe is far more work and trouble than installing a DRO.  All the controls have to be rewired, and that is no mean feat.  I have a 15 X 60 3PH lathe, and I dread putting a VFD on it, even though I will have to some day. (reasons).

A DRO can be installed easily in a day or 2.  Putting a VFD on a lathe takes a full-time week.  VFD on a mill:  2 hours.  life isn't fair!


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## daveog (May 1, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> @daveog I don't want to mess you up, but putting a VFD on a lathe is far more work and trouble than installing a DRO.  All the controls have to be rewired, and that is no mean feat.  I have a 15 X 60 3PH lathe, and I dread putting a VFD on it, even though I will have to some day. (reasons).
> 
> A DRO can be installed easily in a day or 2.  Putting a VFD on a lathe takes a full-time week.  VFD on a mill:  2 hours.  life isn't fair!


I’ve done both. Just prefer doing the vfd.


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## Dabbler (May 1, 2020)

Oh yeah:  get the mag DRO if you can - both my DROs are mag, and they are 30 and 40 years old, and they work as accurately as the day they were bought.  Glass are suseptable to coolant and oil encursion troubles - yes they can be fixed, but it is a hassle. Mag scales will work regardless.


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## hanermo2 (May 1, 2020)

I don´t think there is a "right" choice.

My own 12x24" is a heavy rigid version, at 450 kg, here in Europe.
My experience was that 2HP was a lot of power, and turning large 12" diameter tool steel pieces with power feeds worked really well at that time, 8 years ago.
For general work and especially guns I think power of 1.5 or 2 hp is more than needed when used with the belt drives and or backgear where appropriate.

I turn 200 mm squares of tool steel and stuff, massing 20-30 kg for the workpiece, about 10x bigger than most medium lathe work.
Gun stuff is 50x less inertia and many times less mass, and certainly not removing 2 kg of chips in one session from one part.

I spent more than double the cost of the new lathe on industrial cnc retrofit components, wholesale, for many reasons.
And about 800 work hours on 4 sets of rebuilds, from a new saddle to a servo driven c axis spindle to 2 toolchangers etc.

You are unlikely to have the same needs and desire to spend 8000€ on stuff later on.
And You wont need to. Imho.

And if You ever want to, You can always swap an ac servo and timing belt drive to the spindle, later on.
It is absolutely fantastic, but also quite a lot of work and money.
Hard or difficult, it is not.
Anyone can do it, but heavy mounts and heavy components cost a lot of money and effort.


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## daveog (May 2, 2020)

All those kg's and mm's are just so confusing! LOL


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## daveog (May 2, 2020)

Well, I decided. I placed the order for the 1340GT. A friend of mine gave me some sage advice. He told me that even if the 1236T would meeet my needs, if the 1340GT is really what I want, my attitude towards the 1236T would be less than perfect and I would doubt it and that would ultimately affect my use of it for the negative.


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## wrmiller (May 3, 2020)

My 1340GT was/still is too much lathe for what I need. But, it was the smallest lathe I could find that had the quality, accuracy, and features that I do need. So I bought it, and have been pretty happy with it ever since.

That and I couldn't find a Sharp/Hardinge HLV in my price range...


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## Watchwatch (May 10, 2020)

Thanks for the advice.

I wanted the 1340 and almost bought one back in April when they were still in stock. Corona gave me cold feet. Then the 1340 went on backorder.

Long story short, I saw this thread and talked to Matt. I ordered the 1236. It’s plenty of lathe for my needs and I’ll should have it in a few weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## daveog (May 10, 2020)

Awesome! I think you’ll enjoy the 1236.


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