# This site vis a vis others



## fernballan (Apr 6, 2018)

Another site. No answers
How is it that Here you answer
You press like ore dislike
You comment
And you say hi
I'm just wondering


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## cvairwerks (Apr 6, 2018)

The thing you have to remember, is that the other site is geared to those that make their living in the machining business. The site owner has a few rules about what is acceptable in the way of tools and skills and what is not. The members over there get highly frustrated when someone new joins and does not take the time to even look at what is permitted, or asks basic questions that simple searches there or on other machining sites would provide a multitude of answers.

Conversely, H-M is geared to those that do not have to produce their income from machining, and it has fewer restrictions on what is acceptable. Both sites have their places. I'm a member of both and have been for a long time. If I have a question about something that is obviously a production or specialty related, it gets asked there. If my question is more generic or one-off related, I'll often ask here first.

Both site owners are good people and both sites have great members and lots of information can be gleaned from them. Just look at the rules for a site, no matter what it is and stay within the boundaries and enjoy them.


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## JimDawson (Apr 6, 2018)

We're here to have some fun as well as learn and educate.  Remember, we are the ''Frendly Machinist Forum''


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## benmychree (Apr 6, 2018)

Because nasty remarks are not allowed on this forum, and helpfulness is encouraged; because advice is embraced by the less experienced, the more knowlegeable person is encouraged to give advice.


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## Bill Gruby (Apr 6, 2018)

This site is a level playing field. Yes there are Pros and yes there are Neophytes, both are treated the same. You are not lorded over here because someone has been a machinist for X+ years. We learn to.

 "Billy G"


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## projectnut (Apr 7, 2018)

I agree with cvairwerks in that they are different sites geared to different audiences.  There are some with little patience on the PM site, but in general most participants answer questions in a professional manner.  I have been a member there for many years.  Occasionally I get flamed for mentioning something someone thinks isn't a "professional" tool.  The few times it's happened I just reply with some literature from the manufacturer to explain the tool in question was marketed to the professional market.  It may not be a current production machine, but it falls within the rules set up by the owner it can be discussed.  There are times when you might get a little heat from some members, but you just have to defend your position and go with the flow.  If you remain professional, and don't let emotions or bias cloud questions and answers you'll get along fine.

If and when you post there be sure to read the rules first.  People there are far more familiar with the "professional" grade machines than the "hobbyist" grades.  On the other hand there are far more members familiar with the "hobbyist" types and grades of machinery on this site.  Personally I think there's a considerable amount of information and knowledge to be gained from both sites.


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## dpb (Apr 7, 2018)

I'm not able to find any rules on that other site, other than a warning against vulgarity.  Any hints on where to find them?


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## 4GSR (Apr 7, 2018)

dpb said:


> I'm not able to find any rules on that other site, other than a warning against vulgarity.  Any hints on where to find them?


I wouldn't your time over there trying to figure them out and their unwritten rules, and stay here!


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## Asm109 (Apr 7, 2018)

They live as sticky threads at the top of the general forum

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/


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## Ken from ontario (Apr 8, 2018)

What I'm about to say has nothing to do with that particular site.
In general any web site that caters to a trade or a profession that chooses to  exclude this subject or that topic or frowns upon certain questions, will eventually become an exclusive club with 20-30 regular members that only chit chat amongst themselves, I've seen it in woodworking hobby forums, newcomers are indirectly told they're not welcome , the search feature is usually rammed down your throat, you'd feel so uncomfortable to join in or be one of the guys so to speak that you stop asking any question in case you will be ridiculed.

The lifeline of any forum is new /fresh blood in the form of new members who are enthusiastic ,who want to explore, who ask many questions otherwise as I said you'll end up with an exclusive club made of a bunch of cantankerous old know it alls who barely respect /tolerate each other but no one else.


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## projectnut (Apr 8, 2018)

I don't think the that other site is trying to be an exclusive good old boys club.  They are trying to appeal to the professional rather than the hobbyist.  Their membership list it's over 1,600 pages long with about 30 entries per page.  On the homepage you'll see the advertising from a number of prominent vendors in the field.  These people are advertising multi thousand dollar state of the art machines like laser gear cutters, massive boring machines, top of the line digital controls, and similar equipment used in professional shops.  You don't see this type of equipment advertised on this or any other site appealing to hobbyists for good reason.  There would be few if any customers here, and their advertising dollars would be wasted.

It's simply a different audience.   There is a place for discussions around professional grade machinery that is no longer state of the art, and another area to discuss machinery of bygone eras. 

Keep in mind there are probably very few professionals on that site who have ever owned or even operated  a Harbor Freight mini mill or lathe.  The owner of the site is simply asking members to stay within the discussion guidelines the forum was designed for.  If the rules aren't followed the site would most probably be diluted to the point the professionals would no longer want to wade through the myriad of hobbyists topics and questions and would no longer find it useful.


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## mcostello (Apr 8, 2018)

I have been a member there for a long time. Some of the members get testy now and then,vast majority are ok. Most of the rougher ones have quietly gone by the wayside. Once and a while Someone suggests that homework should have been done before posting the 100,000,000 question on a simple problem that could be easily answered. The two biggest peeves seem to be no mentioning a small hobby like machine. The work around that is easy, don't mention the name. The other is the Subject theme must be mentioned in the title, something like "What I did today," will not fly very long, the Owner does not wade through many posts that have no relevance. I've had no trouble.


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## dlane (Apr 8, 2018)

I find the general forum quite entertaining at times when someone asks the wrong kinda question.


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## magicniner (Apr 8, 2018)

It's a forum for experienced professionals, if you have a serious technical or commercial question it's a great place to get an answer because most of the "Hard of Thinking" have been eliminated, Millacron runs it that way to keep it that way, I like it. 
Hobbyists can still utilise the expertise of the forum but need to take care in the way they pose their questions, start out with details of that new hobby import lathe they're so proud of and they might get canned straight away, ask the same thing couched as a sensible question about an insert they want to use and they'll get some sensible responses. 
Knowing the rules is the name of the game!


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## Downwindtracker2 (Apr 9, 2018)

I asked them about what brand my chuck was. It was marked PC. They got right snarky. I'm a retired millwright. We bought our parts from jobbers so I was downstream of machinists. Since I made very good living fixing their mistakes, my back went up.


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## magicniner (Apr 9, 2018)

What brand was your chuck?
And what machine was the chuck for?


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## Robert LaLonde (Apr 9, 2018)

magicniner said:


> It's a forum for experienced professionals, if you have a serious technical or commercial question it's a great place to get an answer because most of the "Hard of Thinking" have been eliminated, Millacron runs it that way to keep it that way, I like it.
> Hobbyists can still utilise the expertise of the forum but need to take care in the way they pose their questions, start out with details of that new hobby import lathe they're so proud of and they might get canned straight away, ask the same thing couched as a sensible question about an insert they want to use and they'll get some sensible responses.
> Knowing the rules is the name of the game!



Yes and no.  I've often found their threads as search engine results and noticed that even the "pros" sometimes radically disagree about how to do something.  There are several large personalities and large egos that beleive because they found a way that works and they have been doing it that way for 10,20,30,1000 years thats the best and only way it should be done and all other answers are beneath contempt.

Of course if that were true would would still be using unshaped random rocks as axes without handles.  LOL. 

You have to read everything in a thread and see what works for you.  Sometimes there are answers or opinions that just don't make any sense at all.  It can be because you just don't have the shop equipment they have or it can be wrong.  That can be very hard to sort through if you are not an experienced machinist yourself.  Then you have to sort through it all and take the consensus approach.  If two guys say the same thing or similar things you can figure one possible answer to the problem is in that range even if its not within the range of your equipment.

Remember there is almost always more than one solution to a problem, and even if there is one best way it may not be the best way for you, your experience, and your equipment.  The best way is always the way that allows *you* to get the job done within spec and hopefully on time.


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## projectnut (Apr 9, 2018)

Bob La Londe said:


> Yes and no.  I've often found their threads as search engine results and noticed that even the "pros" sometimes radically disagree about how to do something.  There are several large personalities and large egos that beleive because they found a way that works and they have been doing it that way for 10,20,30,1000 years thats the best and only way it should be done and all other answers are beneath contempt.
> 
> Of course if that were true would would still be using unshaped random rocks as axes without handles.  LOL.
> 
> ...




There certainly are differences of opinion on ways to do things.  As mentioned there's probably not a single answer that works for all situations and all machines.  It's kina funny that there are some who insist there is only one way to do things.  I worked for many years with some machinists that immigrated from Germany after WWII.  They were the most disciplined and talented machinists I ever met.  Discipline to them meant never saying "it can't be done", or "I don't have the equipment or skills to do it".  They were also some of the most innovative people I ever met.  I think some of them literally could made a silk purse out of a sows ear.  The best part was they weren't egotistical, or secretive.  They would gladly share what they learned.  Including what did and didn't work.  It was a pleasure to work with and learn from them.  I wish they were still around, somehow I think I still have a lot to learn.


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## middle.road (Apr 9, 2018)

If you want civility and folks who are courteous, H-M is the place.
If you like the atmosphere of a bar a closing time then well. . . 
I saw a write-up by G. Wilson over there, very informative and correct. Some of the replies were completely disrespectful and uncalled for.
80% of the threads you go through over there are like that. A rather toxic atmosphere.
Unless you were lucky enough to have the tutelage of a experienced machinist or tool & die maker you have probably had to learn on your own.
This country has not had proper apprenticeship programs for a long time. They disappeared in the '70s.
I've had the pleasure of working with several skilled gents from Eastern Europe, and it was as *projectnut *stated above, their were more than happy to share their knowledge and information. And no question was 'stupid'.
There's always more that one way to accomplish something.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Apr 9, 2018)

Look at how Vintage Machinery forum answers questions about Asian imports. With politeness and civility. But I do get it, the Chinese to use a school yard expression are eating their lunch.

But I'm a Canuck, we put a high stock on politeness.


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## vtcnc (Apr 9, 2018)

Hi all, just a friendly reminder of the site rules before this good discussion goes a little too far with the comparison of other forums:

*DO NOT CRITICIZE OR DEFAME THIS FORUM OR OTHER FORUMS:*
*9. <snip> Please do not disparage or make any negative comments about other machinist forums on this forum. That is not part of this forum's activities.*


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## RJSakowski (Apr 9, 2018)

As my dear departed mother said, "if you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all"; 'nuff said.


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## David S (Apr 9, 2018)

vtcnc said:


> Hi all, just a friendly reminder of the site rules before this good discussion goes a little too far with the comparison of other forums:
> 
> *DO NOT CRITICIZE OR DEFAME THIS FORUM OR OTHER FORUMS:*
> *9. <snip> Please do not disparage or make any negative comments about other machinist forums on this forum. That is not part of this forum's activities.*



Good reminder Bryan.  I have been interested in this thread and so far I think it has been balanced and informative.  But you are right it could go south quickly.  That it hasn't I think is also a tribute to our colleagues here.

David


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## vtcnc (Apr 9, 2018)

David S said:


> vtcnc said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all, just a friendly reminder of the site rules before this good discussion goes a little too far with the comparison of other forums:
> ...



Agreed! Friendly reminders between friendly people creates good conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HMF (Apr 10, 2018)

Out of respect for our rule (above), I have removed the name of the forum from the thread title and posts. 
We all know who it is. The idea is that on our forum, we don't want to fire shots at others. Even if they fire at us.
As has been said, everything has its place. Every source of information is valuable to us.

If you look in the site history forum you will see why this forum is here.
Briefly, I went to a forum, acted pretty hokey, got some unfriendly treatment, took it personally, reacted poorly, and was shown the door.
That was many years ago now, no need to go back there.

As a result, I needed a place to be able to ask hobbyist-level questions without having to worry.
I had no place. So I started a place. Ask any question you like. Ask the same question 10 times. It's no big deal here.
There was no commercial purpose and still isn't on this site.
We don't sell advertising, magazines, books, or anything else.
No one makes a penny off this place, and that is an essential difference. 
The ads we show and the paid memberships keep us going.
Everything is a tax-deductible contribution to help keep us going.
We just want to help, and we want to get experienced people like those of you in this thread to help us help others.
Make videos, please. Upload them to our video library. We have the ability to store them. Show others how you do things. 
If you need money, I will give you a donation to help defray your costs. You can always post them on YouTube also.
Do an article for us showing how to do something. You can win the Project of the Month award!

As someone said, there are no apprenticeships in the US anymore.
Community colleges don't always teach machining anymore.
But these skills are needed, and someone has to teach them.
Not to get into politics, but, if things get more expensive offshore, more things may be made in the US.
There will have to be sources of the skills needed to teach people how to do this.
Share your knowledge- it's your legacy.


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## Silverbullet (Apr 10, 2018)

Like these guys said before me, I did my apprenticeship in the seventies after 4 years in vocational high school taking machine tool and die technology as a major. I was working in machine shop during my last two years of high school , my day started at 5am and ended at 10pm . After graduation I still held the part time and full time while earning my apprenticeship for another 2years or so. So I guess I can say I'm in the last of the old time way of earning the title . I'm not a cnc machine man by no means but there isn't and old machine I'm not acquainted with in one way or another. Does it make me better then others not so much but I'm like those old timers willing to share and help . Ill never forget my vocational school and the training by my shop teachers they were even older machinist not booked to death college indoctrinated . Common sense sometimes is more prevalent then book learning. People learn best by doing mistakes make learning . So if the site isn't willing to help all its a site I only visit when I need to , not very often for sure . Here I feel the need and try to do my best to help. 
Nelson God bless you for this , it's a great place to visit for all .


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## HMF (Apr 11, 2018)

Let me say something to those of you from those other sites.

The guys there, especially the experts, are welcome here. 
If you go there too, please invite them.
We need them to teach us, if they can overlook the fact that we're hobbyists.
All we ask is don't beat up on us.

Some of them look down on this place.
But, it's a good place, really.
We want to learn.
We want to listen. 
If they want some incentives in exchange for their instruction, let them talk to me.
I'm not the terrible guy they think I am.


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