# Seeking drill bit and bit sharpener recommendations...



## auto.pilot (Apr 5, 2017)

My primary work is done at a maker space (Techshop).  Finding a sharp drill bit is a constant source of frustration.  I'd like to invest in a quality set of bits (standard size) and a bit sharpening tool.  I am primarily working in aluminum and steel.  Would appreciate any recommendations, since there are so many options.  

Thanks

Jim


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## Dave Paine (Apr 5, 2017)

I purchased a Hertel set of 115 drill bits from ENCO last year.  Decent drill bits.

I later saw a video recommending Norseman drills.  I think this is the same company which also sells Viking drills.  If I were purchasing drills again I would look at one of these.  Perhaps another person knows the difference.

http://www.norsemandrill.com/

http://www.vikingdrill.com/

I use a Drill Doctor to sharpen the drills.  Works for me.  Some folks use a platform with a V groove at the desired angle on the grinder.


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## cjtoombs (Apr 5, 2017)

I've got a Drill Doctor 750 that has worked very well and has held up as well.  I would get a standard set of 118 degree, Jober length HSS drill bits.  The 29 piece set if you are mostly doing basic stuff, 115 piece if you plan on doing a lot of different sizes of tapped holes or complicated work.  Buy the best set you can afford, but if you wind up getting the cheap Chinese ones, they work ok, and you can replace the ones you use the most (and wear out or break the most) with good ones as needed.  Don't get the fancy pointed ones, as some of these can't be sharpened on the Drill Doctor (split point is fine, I'm talking about stepped point, etc).


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## GLCarlson (Apr 5, 2017)

Drill Doctor 750 works OK. I've had two, and they're way better than a swing fixture or hand grinding- but, at best, just OK. 

Jan 2102 issue of HSM had a 4 facet sharpener project (there are several out there). I have found that 4 facet works better than the conical (DD) sharpening style- much more consistent cutting with both flutes, more likely to drill to size. Four (and six) facet seems to be the default standard for CNC.

Precision Twist Drill is another good brand. A 115 bit set (fractions, numbers, letters) will cost about 600 bucks. They'll also last several lifetimes if properly resharpened and not abused. And at those prices, you won't be tempted to loan them to anyone.

Incidentally- a cheap set (from HF) is worth having to regrind for brass only.


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## mikey (Apr 5, 2017)

Jim, since you're mostly working in a Maker space environment, I assume you're carrying in your tools. A 115 piece set is nice but the case is big and heavy. As an option, I suggest you buy the bits in smaller sets. I would buy a 1-60 wire size set first; most smaller holes for tapping screws use these drills. I would buy a fractional set second and a letter size set last. You will need all of them. Buy them in full sets.

Jobber drills are longer and are fine for most work. If I could only have one set, however, it would be a screw machine set. They are shorter, stiff and accordingly more accurate (shorter lever arm). Their length is enough for the vast majority of holes you will drill.

118 vs 135 - both work. Most drills for general work are 118 degree. I have both and both are fine but I find the 118 to drill with less pressure.

HSS vs cobalt - HSS is fine for 99% of your work. Cobalt is really good for stainless or more abrasive stuff but they cost more. I have a cobalt set that I use only when I plan to tap a hole in stainless steel; I push these drills harder so that they cut continuously in the hopes of reducing work hardening. If I'm not going to tap the hole, I use HSS in stainless.

Buy a good 1/4" spotting drill; 120 degree if you use 118 degree drills and 140 degree if you prefer 135 degree drills. They will improve your accuracy re hole location and save your edges.

A Drill Doctor is a good idea if you haven't had a lot of experience grinding drills on a bench grinder. I picked one up because I don't see as well as I used to and grinding smaller drills was becoming a chore. This is a cheap machine that does a decent job and its fast. If you use your drills properly, it won't see that much use so I think its a good investment.

Keep in mind that when drilling, speed is not as important as feed. You should be pushing the drill hard enough so that it is cutting continuously. Most of the wear on a drill comes from spinning it in the hole without cutting. On large drills, I am running slow and pushing it hard. When I'm done, I can only feel a little heat in the bit when I take it out of the chuck. If you cannot keep up with the feed, slow down the speed.

For brands, there are some good ones: PTD, Titex, Cleveland, Triumph and others. I have all of these and more. Makita had a really good fractional set that they no longer sell; it is still may favorite set. Do your homework on brands - the guys will be able to advise you.


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## David S (Apr 5, 2017)

Mike like your recommendation for screw machine bits.  I don't have a complete set but do have a selection of smaller ones beside my lathe.

I also have a Drill Doctor.  Does it handle the screw machine bit lengths?  I have never tried.

David


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## mikey (Apr 5, 2017)

I haven't tried it on the smaller sizes but it works for the longer ones.


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## JPigg55 (Apr 5, 2017)

For what it's worth, I heard this on a "Projects in Metal" podcast. It was a short lived podcast with only 3 episodes. http://www.projectsinmetal.com/category/podcast/
It was an interview with a, I think, retired shop teacher. He recommended getting a cheapest set of drill bits from Harbor Freight and a Drill Doctor.


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## ericc (Apr 5, 2017)

Hi.  I'm also a Techshop member.  I have gotten to like the chowdered (Is that a word?) Harbor Freight bits that they have lying around.  Some of them are burned because someone got angry.  Their grinder wheels are never dressed well, but lateral sweeping a big fat bit will help the wheel a lot.  This is a great way to learn how to sharpen.  The only problem is that the grinding room is really dirty.  I normally do not wear a mask while I am grinding, but at Techshop, a disposable mask will only last 3-4 sessions.  Seems like everyone else is getting the grindin' out of their system too!


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## mikey (Apr 5, 2017)

JPigg55 said:


> For what it's worth, I heard this on a "Projects in Metal" podcast. It was a short lived podcast with only 3 episodes. http://www.projectsinmetal.com/category/podcast/
> It was an interview with a, I think, retired shop teacher. He recommended getting a cheapest set of drill bits from Harbor Freight and a Drill Doctor.



I can see the logic but have to wonder about the quality of the HF bits. If the steel they use is good and the hardness is consistent then okay. All drill bits are not created equal - try a Guhring or Titex bit sometime.


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## JPigg55 (Apr 5, 2017)

mikey said:


> I can see the logic but have to wonder about the quality of the HF bits. If the steel they use is good and the hardness is consistent then okay. All drill bits are not created equal - try a Guhring or Titex bit sometime.



I agree they aren't. I did buy a set of nicer bits at Harbor Freight, don’t remember the name/type offhand, but they are sharp and hold an edge. Think the set ran me about  $80 before discount coupon.
I was thinking more of considering the OP situation. Given use in a public work area, I would hate having a  $200 set of drill bits walk off.


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## Doubleeboy (Apr 5, 2017)

HF has a 135 degree cobalt , coated set with split points.  The set I bought is very nice, an outright bargain for the less than $100 I paid for it, not bad for fraction, numbered and lettered.  It has proven itself to be the equal of my made in USA no name Enco set which cost twice that 10 years ago.


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## mikey (Apr 6, 2017)

Hey Mike, I gotta' gloat. I bought a "used" 115 piece set of PTD screw machine drills for $100.00, shipped, on ebay. The guy showed a long distance pic of the drills and the set was complete. The index was dirty and had some dark marks but I bought it anyway. When I got the set, the drills were brand new. I looked at each drill under 10X magnification and they were all pristine. The index cleaned up perfectly with some alcohol. 

Sometimes you step in it and come up smelling fine!


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## auto.pilot (Apr 6, 2017)

Thanks for all the prompt excellent replies. This forum is great!


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## auto.pilot (Apr 6, 2017)

One other thought... is there any advantage to bits with 3 ground flats, which prevent slipping?


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## mikey (Apr 6, 2017)

I have some of those and they're used only in a keyless chuck on my hand held drill. I prefer a round shank on my machine drills.


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## darkzero (Apr 6, 2017)

I have a set of cobalt drills with the 3 flats. I forget where I got them but they are China. The flats on some of them around ground very precise so when used in the lathe or mill they don't center up properly. I now only use them in a hand drill. I prefer no flats on drill bits.

I have the 115pc cobalt drill set from HF, I needed some letter drills & with the 25% coupon I thought I'd try them. To my surprise the set I got is a actually pretty good. The index sucked though, I bought a Huot index for them. Their TiN & black oxide drills aren't as good though IMO.


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## Hidyn (Apr 6, 2017)

I know it sounds snobbish, but in school they made us sharpen them on a regular bench grinder. I'm sure there are some youtube videos about it.

I still haven't mastered it as I'm very careful not to dull my bits, but after being forced to practice, I have to say, I don't feel the need for a jig.

Don't sell yourself short! They also made us hand file a respectable little slab of steel until it was flat and the sides parallel, both to within .003" with a 16" single cut bastard file!

You can achieve surgical results with some pretty blunt instruments with a little bit of practice!


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## T. J. (Apr 7, 2017)

I bought one of the cheap 29 piece fractional sets from HF a while back, expressly for the purpose of learning to sharpen them.  When I examined them, I found about 10 of them were very crooked!


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## royesses (Apr 7, 2017)

Doubleeboy said:


> HF has a 135 degree cobalt , coated set with split points.  The set I bought is very nice, an outright bargain for the less than $100 I paid for it, not bad for fraction, numbered and lettered.  It has proven itself to be the equal of my made in USA no name Enco set which cost twice that 10 years ago.



I also have the HF 115 piece cobalt drill bit set. Paid $90 minus20% with a coupon. They are very good quality bits. I was shocked at how good they are. I save the precision twist drill set and just use the HF set most of the time. Only problem with HF is they change manufacturers and then the quality may change. Good part is they are not much of an investment if stolen or broken by friends.

Roy


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## auto.pilot (Apr 7, 2017)

I just got a 20% off HF coupon via email... the 115 piece cobalt set is just $88 with the coupon code.  They also have a 13 pc HSS set for $3.99, regularly $22. Getting both at these prices. And the drill doctor from Amazon for $128 w free prime shipping. Thanks for all the great replies!


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## Bill W. (Apr 8, 2017)

auto.pilot...
I think you'll like the Drill Dr.  I have the 750 and so far have had good results.  
It's like anything else that is designed to sharpen drill bits... it takes a little practice getting used to.
Good luck... Bill W.


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## David S (Apr 8, 2017)

Not sure what various types of work you get into, but a small set of left hand bits can be quite handy for getting broken off screws out of holes.  Often if when you are drilling the hole for the extractor, the broken off piece will just unscrew itself while drilling.  13 piece set or less is all you need.

David


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## Dr John (Apr 8, 2017)

auto.pilot said:


> My primary work is done at a maker space (Techshop).  Finding a sharp drill bit is a constant source of frustration.  I'd like to invest in a quality set of bits (standard size) and a bit sharpening tool.  I am primarily working in aluminum and steel.  Would appreciate any recommendations, since there are so many options.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jim


I have been using Drill Doctor for years. Does a great job, when the drill bit is loaded properly.


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## Subwayrocket (Apr 8, 2017)

auto.pilot said:


> I'd like to invest in a quality set of bits (standard size) and a bit sharpening tool.  Would appreciate any recommendations
> Thanks
> 
> Jim



Get M42 bits , they're only a little more money and hold up ALOT better . There is a guy i've been buying them from quite a while, he is Drill Hog on ebay . The guy is very reasonable , and all lifetime warranty .  You probably know this but lots of bits say "Cobalt" ...if they don't specifically say "M42 Cobalt" don't buy them thinking they're good cobalt bits. Good bits will specifically say what they are , like HSS , M2 or M42 . I use my bits in the mill , but I also "beat" on them up under a truck or up a pole with a hand drill and no cutting fluid .  The M42 have held up the best , and they sharpen in a Drill Doctor . As for the drill doctor , some do ok but i didn't have great luck with it . It sharpens bits fine , but I had hit and miss results with the sharpening being centered and/or accurate for use in the mill. I watched all the vids, no luck with drill doctor .


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## graham-xrf (Apr 8, 2017)

Not taking anything at all away from those who find a Drill Doctor suits their needs just fine, and maybe holding the flag up a little for the traditionalists, there is a reason why keywords "sharpen drills" on YouTube yield Tom's video with more than 3.6 million views!




I was shown how to do this with a "rotate and tip up" technique to produce the curved back face, but I am impressed with the way 4-facet tips work, and that the sharpening technique is a whole lot easier.

Hand sharpened drills with curved back face can be ground to perform well, but each is kind of unique, never quite like the next, or the previous.  Of course, it is not too hard to come across every kind of human ingenuity in making aids to help this task. Even in a woodworking context, I have to admire this one..


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## SmokeWalker (Apr 8, 2017)

If you have a good drill sharpening situation, it almost doesn't matter where the drills themselves come from.

I second the 135º Cobalt HF bits. Very nice to not have to drill a center in the hole.

Drill grinding machines are a very nice idea, but if you want truly good results–from most machines–over a versatile range of sizes (.0625 to .500 or more)  you need to learn how to do what you're doing AND spend good money on the grinder.

You _really _get what you pay for in terms of aftermarket service, spare parts, customer support, reliability, versatility and apparent cost/value. And I'd say you should think of paying more than $1500 if you want to even *begin *to get the whole kit and caboodle for a good piece of machinery.

If you can't shell out that kind of money, in my experience, you should take a week off, build the best jig/contraption you can find/dream up, and practice. Anything else is just a waste of money, but an even BIGGER waste of TIME.


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## ewkearns (Apr 8, 2017)

Found one of these, years ago, that got carted back to a machinery dealer after a expo.  He sold it really cheap and I've always liked the large range of capacity. Don't know what they sell for, now, but if affordable, they are highly versatile...

http://www.lislecorp.com/uploads/files/91000_Drill_Grinder_Instructions_99F8C6E45E647.pdf


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## royesses (Apr 8, 2017)

ewkearns said:


> Found one of these, years ago, that got carted back to a machinery dealer after a expo.  He sold it really cheap and I've always liked the large range of capacity. Don't know what they sell for, now, but if affordable, they are highly versatile...
> 
> http://www.lislecorp.com/uploads/files/91000_Drill_Grinder_Instructions_99F8C6E45E647.pdf



I have looked many times for the Lisle drill sharpener on eBay. They occasionally show up on Ebay but for too much money. Many times I've heard guys say they're one of the best ways to sharpen a drill bit. I've had a drill doctor pro 500 for 20 years. It's the green vertical type that also comes in a 750 version. Getting the bit aligned in the holder and properly grabbed by the aligner clips is the secret to making it work properly. Once the bit is tightened in the holder look at the holder fingers and make sure they are not tilted by slightly loosening the holder until they straighten out.

Roy


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## EmilioG (Apr 9, 2017)

Never purchased a complete set yet, but I should. I have many Huot indexes with a hodge podge of drill types and boxes of others.
I like Guhring, C-L and PTD.  I recently saw a lot of Guhring drills on Ebay for $30.00, I jumped and when I got them, they were all
very, very expensive drills. 14 Gurhing solid carbide drills, larger metrics. Brand new in their boxes.  I really like Guhring. My fav's., Taps too.

I don't think Guhring sells sets, so I would look at Chicago Latrobe and Hertel, PTD and maybe Viking and Triumph. I have one Viking but haven't used it yet.
Msc has sales on these sets all the time.  Sign up for the newsletter and catalogs.


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## Downunder Bob (Apr 9, 2017)

auto.pilot said:


> My primary work is done at a maker space (Techshop).  Finding a sharp drill bit is a constant source of frustration.  I'd like to invest in a quality set of bits (standard size) and a bit sharpening tool.  I am primarily working in aluminum and steel.  Would appreciate any recommendations, since there are so many options.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jim



It appears there are two schools of thought here, 1. go cheap and top up as needed. or 2. go the whole hog and hang the expense. 
While we don't have harbor freight here in down under. I gather they are similar to the big box junk hardware shops we do have.

Unless you have money to burn, I would suggest buy a basic set of drills 118 deg standard or split points. you will find that a few sizes will be used almost all the time, certainly replace them with high quality bits as needed. There will be some sizes in the set that will almost never be used, and will probably never need to be sharpened. 

I assume you are not an expert at sharpening drills, then certainly go ahead and buy a drill doctor, they are as good as any. the real trick is to make sure the drill is set up in the holder correctly, and unsure you make an even number of rotations. 

I finally succumbed and bout one recently as my eye sight is not as good as it once was. I was taught as  an apprentice some nearly 60 years ago how to sharpen a drill properly, and have always sharpened them by hand, but I now have problems with the smaller ones, so now with my near new drill doctor I'm back in business. I still do the bigger ones by hand, especially over 1/2 inch as I only bought the 500 model.    

I also recommend you learn to sharpen drills by hand it can be useful when you haven't got the drill doctor with you, I would never take one to a tech-shop, nor would I take an expensive set of drill bits or any other special tools. There will always be some who will want to borrow them , and not respect them.


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## auto.pilot (Apr 9, 2017)

Shopping at HF yesterday, I was glad for the advice about different manufacturers.  The first set I looked at included two bits with mis-alligned points. Second set had 2 missing and a bad latch on the steel box. 3rd set was packed in a different thicker cardboard box, steel box was slightly different and all the bits looked good.

Thanks!


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## Subwayrocket (Apr 9, 2017)

[QUOTE="royesses, post: 476063, member: 32964" I've had a drill doctor pro 500 for 20 years. It's the green vertical type that also comes in a 750 version. Getting the bit aligned in the holder and properly grabbed by the aligner clips is the secret to making it work properly. Once the bit is tightened in the holder look at the holder fingers and make sure they are not tilted by slightly loosening the holder until they straighten out. Roy[/QUOTE]    Maybe it's the " 20 years ago" part that is the difference .  I have a newer one from about 2 yrs ago , a 750x . I know what you mean with the aligner fingers , yet mine still is still hit and miss . Maybe the QC is not great with them now... because some people seem to have great results , while others have hit and miss results ...and I know i'm doing everything same as in the many video's ive watched .   I've had about a 50/50 chance of getting a sharpened bit with a centered chisel edge. If I wasn't using it right then all my sharpened bits should be off center or not sharpened right... I get about 5-6 out of 10 that are good . I figured that in all the complaining videos the people just didn't know how to use it right. I really gave mine a chance and just didn't get the consistency. You can make sure the bit is aligned in the holder and properly grabbed by the aligner clips and still make a dud . 
I put the drills that don't come out great with my Drill Doctor into a box for general uses that require less accuracy...in that sense, drill doctor is worth the money. It will definitely sharpen bits nicely for use in a hand drill or not critical drill press work,
but it's just been very hit and miss . For me, at least it's better than throwing M42 and HSS bits away.

The M42 stuff from Drill Hog is on par with anything comparable I have from Guhring and Hertel in M42 ...and can't beat his prices on the drill hog M42 12 packs , that's where the deal is, I got 12 packs in the most common sizes .
I find that for my uses, M42 the best combination of price/hardness/versatility/toughness/durability/less prone to breaking

Ebay has been good for old stock M42 and here is an empty but nice Huot index I bought for 12 bucks,  eBay item number:  251815801850
Here is a 1/16 to 1/2 M42 set for 67 bucks, I use this brand and they hold up + lifetime warranty , eBay item number: 171716463352
Here's an example of his M42 12 packs,   eBay item number: 181925858737

If you're considering a Drill Doctor, try and find someone that's having success and try it with them.  ymmv


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## royesses (Apr 9, 2017)

Subwayrocket said:


> [QUOTE="royesses, post: 476063, member: 32964" I've had a drill doctor pro 500 for 20 years. It's the green vertical type that also comes in a 750 version. Getting the bit aligned in the holder and properly grabbed by the aligner clips is the secret to making it work properly. Once the bit is tightened in the holder look at the holder fingers and make sure they are not tilted by slightly loosening the holder until they straighten out.
> 
> Roy


 Maybe it's the " 20 years ago" part that is the difference .  I have a newer one from about 2 yrs ago , a 750x . I know what you mean with the aligner fingers , yet mine still is still hit and miss . Maybe the QC is not great with them now... because some people seem to have great results , while others have hit and miss results ...and I know i'm doing everything same as in the many video's ive watched .   I've had about a 50/50 chance of getting a sharpened bit with a centered chisel edge. If I wasn't using it right then all my sharpened bits should be off center or not sharpened right... I get about 5-6 out of 10 that are good . I figured that in all the complaining videos the people just didn't know how to use it right. I really gave mine a chance and just didn't get the consistency. You can make sure the bit is aligned in the holder and properly grabbed by the aligner clips and still make a dud . 
I put the drills that don't come out great with my Drill Doctor into a box for general uses that require less accuracy...in that sense, drill doctor is worth the money. It will definitely sharpen bits nicely for use in a hand drill or not critical drill press work,
but it's just been very hit and miss . For me, at least it's better than throwing M42 and HSS bits away.

The M42 stuff from Drill Hog is on par with anything comparable I have from Guhring and Hertel in M42 ...and can't beat his prices on the drill hog M42 12 packs , that's where the deal is, I got 12 packs in the most common sizes .
I find that for my uses, M42 the best combination of price/hardness/versatility/toughness/durability/less prone to breaking

Ebay has been good for old stock M42 and here is an empty but nice Huot index I bought for 12 bucks,  eBay item number:  251815801850
Here is a 1/16 to 1/2 M42 set for 67 bucks, I use this brand and they hold up + lifetime warranty , eBay item number: 171716463352
Here's an example of his M42 12 packs,   eBay item number: 181925858737

If you're considering a Drill Doctor, try and find someone that's having success and try it with them.  ymmv[/QUOTE]

Another variable that is difficult to quantify is the amount of pressure you use to push the dill holder into the diamond wheel. I think there is where the best chance of getting the chisel edge off center comes in. I don't know of any way to make sure that the pressure is always the same when rotating the holder. It is quite difficult to push and turn then re grab and push and turn with the exact same pressures. I have also had to measure and correct many times.

Roy


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## Rustrp (Apr 9, 2017)

auto.pilot said:


> Thanks for all the prompt excellent replies. This forum is great!


A quality drill bit will stay sharp when used correctly and a cheap drill bit is like a dull saw blade (cuts crooked) it drills crooked holes. Quality drill bits are easier to sharpen, the same as a high quality knife. If I can drill three or four time the number of holes yet only pay 50% more for the drill bit, to me it's a logical choice. Precision, Hout, Hertel, C-L, Viking, all make good drill bits and are comparably priced.


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