# Tool for quickly setting up your vice on the mill



## CannonFodder (Nov 24, 2014)

I saw one of these devices for rapidlysquaring-up your vice on your mill and thought it was a great idea.  I saw it on a video somewhere, Ican't remember what they had called it, but it looked easy and foolproof. It turned out to be a successful day-long project.  The picture shows the device in the jaws of my vice and pushed up against a plate on the vertical column.  

I constructed mine with some scrap pieces of 3/4" x 3/4" bar stock (probably hot rolled) and some 1/2" steel rod (the polished looking stuff that you can buy at the hardware store, I don't know what it is called).  I just drilled through the barstock, fitted the rods through, and held them tight with some 5/16" set screws coming in from the ends.  The only careful work I did what to make sure the two square bars were parallel using my surface plate and an indicator.  

When I first saw the device on the video, they were applying it to a full-sized Bridgeport and had the entire dovetail of the knee to push it against.  That's a nice flat surface I don't have.  This difference made this project just a little more challenging.





The painted portion of this vertical column is not square, it has a slight convex radius to it.  But the little boss where the rubber chip cover attaches is flat (except the paint).  I filed the surface of the boss flat (not caring if it was parallel to the ways), and make a little steel plate (3/16") to take the place of the dovetail ways that I don't own.  The plate feels very stiff when bolted down.  I drilled and tapped a couple of extra holes at the top of the plate in case I wanted to firm up the plate with some set-screws touching the column under that location, but it seems unnecessary.

So the idea is to loosen up the vice from the table, clamp in your device, push it against the reference of the column, tighten down your vice, and your vice is square to the ways (good enough for most jobs, and certainly a good place to start from if you go ahead and make it great with your dial indicator or other method).

Everything was going great.  I was eager to test out the accuracy of my new tool.  My vice was still in its carefully indicated position, so I put the tool in my vice, and wound the vice and it's tool up against the little plate using the y-axis, and . . . . . yuk.
I could see about a quarter inch gap just in the space of that 4" (approx) width of metal plate.  Wow, that looked like some bad work!





Can you see the gap?  Now, I know I'm a beginner, but that is some bad work!

But that got me looking around, and I found the same angle nearby:





Can you see the same angle between my column and my base?  [Insert the usual "Chinese" commentary here.]

Now there are two reasons why the angle of this column did not become a new project for me - first, I am a beginner, and that work sounds too challenging.  Secondly, this machine is trammed perfectly, and I love it.

The fix seemed easy enough.  If I set my vice, using my new tool, to match that angle (right up flush to the metal plate), bolt it down and machine a shim in that position, it should be the perfect fix for the angle between the metal plate and the x-axis of my machine.

So I put a chunk of 1/2" aluminum bar in the vice and made some passes along the x-axis.




Here is the wedge after I cut it out of the bar stock with a hacksaw:




I don't have pictures of drilling two holes and mounting it between the little boss of my column and the steel plate, but you get the idea.

I loosened my vice, and repeated the procedure of pushing my vice up against the metal plate using the new tool.  It looked squared away.

I put the dial gauge to the solid jaw of the vice and ran the table the full length of the jaw - the needle never moved.




Can anyone out there tell me the name of this thing I made?

Best wishes in everything,

CannonFodder (Bob)


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## hman (Nov 25, 2014)

CannonFodder said:


> Can anyone out there tell me the name of this thing I made?



It's called a dam good idea!  

Gonna have to make one for my Grizzly/RongFu mill.  Thanks for posting!


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## Karl_T (Nov 25, 2014)

Ah, another way to skin the cat. Good job.

I put keys on the bottom of the vise so the gaps in the table do the locating.

Karl


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## ecdez (Nov 25, 2014)

Looks like one of my most dreaded tasks just got a little easier.  Thanks for sharing.


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## ebgb68 (Nov 25, 2014)

Good idea . It looks like you would have to use the same spot on the ways each time ? Have you checked that ?


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## CannonFodder (Nov 25, 2014)

ebgb68 said:


> Good idea . It looks like you would have to use the same spot on the ways each time ? Have you checked that ?



I think you are asking whether the x and/or the y must be in the original position of fabrication in order for this system to work.
I must admit, I have not thought about that except for the following.  Since the little plate (and admittedly, through the parallel tool I made) is now parallel to x and perpendicular to y, I think it will work universally across my table.  But it IS the combination of that little plate and that particular tool, that results in my vice being squared away.  I have not checked the little plate on its own, since it will "never" be used without the tool.

Is that what you mean?  Otherwise, let me know how else I should be thinking, and thanks.

CannonFodder (Bob)


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## Mark_f (Nov 25, 2014)

I don't know what it is called but I gotta have one ....soooo off to the shop to make it. This is a wonderful little gadget. Thanks for posting it.


Mark Frazier


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## CannonFodder (Nov 25, 2014)

hman said:


> It's called a dam good idea!
> 
> Gonna have to make one for my Grizzly/RongFu mill.  Thanks for posting!



Awesome, please let us know how it works out.

Bob


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## CannonFodder (Nov 25, 2014)

ecdez said:


> Looks like one of my most dreaded tasks just got a little easier.  Thanks for sharing.



You are welcome.  If you make one, let us know if it does the job for you.

Bob


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## CannonFodder (Nov 25, 2014)

mark_f said:


> I don't know what it is called but I gotta have one ....soooo off to the shop to make it. This is a wonderful little gadget. Thanks for posting it.
> 
> 
> Mark Frazier



Hey Mark, you sound like a motivated man.  Enjoy the process and let us know how it turns out.

 Bob


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## Mark_f (Nov 25, 2014)

Sure will. This will work great on the Burke #4 mill. I always have a hard time squaring the vise. This is so simple , I can't believe I never thought of it. The Burke has a nice flat dove tail column the Whole vertical length of the mill. This will work at any height an fast and easy.

I'll post a pic as soon as I get it done.

Mark Frazier




CannonFodder said:


> Hey Mark, you sound like a motivated man.  Enjoy the process and let us know how it turns out.
> 
> Bob


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## ebgb68 (Nov 25, 2014)

CannonFodder said:


> I think you are asking whether the x and/or the y must be in the original position of fabrication in order for this system to work.
> I must admit, I have not thought about that except for the following.  Since the little plate (and admittedly, through the parallel tool I made) is now parallel to x and perpendicular to y, I think it will work universally across my table.  But it IS the combination of that little plate and that particular tool, that results in my vice being squared away.  I have not checked the little plate on its own, since it will "never" be used without the tool.
> 
> Is that what you mean?  Otherwise, let me know how else I should be thinking, and thanks.
> ...



I couldn't see on my phone your using the bracket on the black protector for a reference point. Yes I'm copying your idea thanks.


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## CannonFodder (Nov 25, 2014)

ebgb68 said:


> I couldn't see on my phone your using the bracket on the black protector for a reference point. Yes I'm copying your idea thanks.



Roger that.  Good luck.

Bob


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## CannonFodder (Nov 26, 2014)

mark_f said:


> This is so simple , I can't believe I never thought of it.
> 
> Mark Frazier




Ahh, the sign of a good idea!  I'll have to try to find that original video where I saw this thing and give someone some credit where credit is due.


CannonFodder (Bob)


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## CannonFodder (Nov 26, 2014)

Karl_T said:


> Ah, another way to skin the cat. Good job.
> 
> I put keys on the bottom of the vise so the gaps in the table do the locating.
> 
> Karl




That is a good idea also, but I'm afraid that my gaps are not smooth and finished nicely.  I think I would get a different result based on the position of the table.

CannonFodder


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## SG51Buss (Nov 26, 2014)

I love it!  It's soooo obvious that my head hurts,..... from banging it on the wall...

My situation is a drill press with an Atlas xy table that has a rotary base..  Took forever to tram the vice, and don't want to disturb it.  As such, I've missed-out on alternative fixturing opportunities.  You've freed me from my own OCD!

This is going into my 'round-tuit' jobjar.  I'll be sure to post a pic when it's implemented.

Thanx, CannonFodder!


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## Mark_f (Nov 26, 2014)

CannonFodder said:


> Hey Mark, you sound like a motivated man.  Enjoy the process and let us know how it turns out.
> 
> Bob





OK guys..... I made this thing and it is great. I made mine 5 inches inside dimension because I don't use a vise bigger than that on my Burke mill. So I started with 9/16" key stock and clamped the two pieces together and drilled and reamed the holes in the ends to 1/4". I clamped them together to make sure the holes were parallel and straight with each other. this makes it go together more accurately. I polished the two registering surfaces and made sure they were parallel using my granite surface plate and a height gauge. The back side does not need polished because it goes against the movable jaw. I used 1/4" drill rod for the shafts. When assembled I rechecked it on the surface plate.




Ok.... next I tried it on my Burke mill and it locates the vise accurately within less than .001" every time. that is good enough for most anything.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 Here it is on my mill. the accuracy depends on you keeping it tight against the column while it is clamped in the vise and you tighten the vise hold down bolts. BUT IT WORKS EXCELLENT.

Thanks for posting this. It saves a lot of time and makes change overs so much easier and took about an hour to make.

Mark Frazier

( I'm going to paint it with grey hammer finish paint to make it look store bought ) )


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## kwoodhands (Nov 26, 2014)

.Good idea.I use a different method that works for me. I cut a 1/4" thick steel plate into a C  shape. The portion of the plate I cut out fits in the vice, the rest overhangs the vice and sits in the table grooves.On my particular mill I pack the plate outwith several parallels , then tighten the vice screw.I then push or pull the vice so the plate touches the groove evenly on each side.
Last I snug the vice mounting bolts up.
When I first tried this quick set up I hoped for decent accuracy for set ups that did not need .0001 or so accuracy.I found that checking with an indicator over an 8" span that the difference was .002 on average. I don't bother using the indicator anymore for setting up the voce.
The steel plate has to be straight.I got lucky as the plate was off the shelf piece from a hardware store.I pack the plate with parallels only because I have to get the plate about centered in the table grooves.
mike


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## CannonFodder (Nov 26, 2014)

mark_f said:


> OK guys..... I made this thing and it is great.



Wow, your device looks great, and I'm glad it is working so well.  Awesome job!!

The bad news is that I think you have inherited the job of naming it!  

CannonFodder


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## CannonFodder (Nov 26, 2014)

kwoodhands said:


> .Good idea.I use a different method that works for me. I cut a 1/4" thick steel plate into a C  shape. The portion of the plate I cut out fits in the vice, the rest overhangs the vice and sits in the table grooves.On my particular mill I pack the plate outwith several parallels , then tighten the vice screw.I then push or pull the vice so the plate touches the groove evenly on each side.
> Last I snug the vice mounting bolts up.
> When I first tried this quick set up I hoped for decent accuracy for set ups that did not need .0001 or so accuracy.I found that checking with an indicator over an 8" span that the difference was .002 on average. I don't bother using the indicator anymore for setting up the voce.
> The steel plate has to be straight.I got lucky as the plate was off the shelf piece from a hardware store.I pack the plate with parallels only because I have to get the plate about centered in the table grooves.
> mike




Hi Mike,

Yes, I can see how that would work, and even seems more simple in construction.  In my case, I don't think I could use it because my T-Slots do not have accurate sidewalls.  If you run your finger along the inside of a slot, it pretty much feels like very rough cement.

But I really like how it sounds so quick for you.  Nice thinking!

CannonFodder (Bob)


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## CannonFodder (Nov 26, 2014)

SG51Buss said:


> I love it!  It's soooo obvious that my head hurts,..... from banging it on the wall...
> 
> My situation is a drill press with an Atlas xy table that has a rotary base..  Took forever to tram the vice, and don't want to disturb it.  As such, I've missed-out on alternative fixturing opportunities.  You've freed me from my own OCD!
> 
> ...




You're welcome, and you said it perfectly  -  "As such, I've missed-out on alternative fixturing opportunities."

That's exactly how I felt!


CannonFodder  (Bob)


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## CannonFodder (Nov 26, 2014)

Hey Everyone,

I re-found that original video that I saw sometime ago that showed me this tool.

You can see it at www.youtube.com/watch?v=76eqJCTSlrI

It appears that it was uploaded by Paul Compton - thanks to Paul!

And it's called ------------------------- (wait for it) ----------------------- a QUICK TRAM.

End of mystery.

Thanks,


CannonFodder (Bob)


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## Dranreb (Dec 2, 2014)

Great idea Bob, today I will be mostly making one for my shaper, thanks for showing us that simply marvelous gadget....:thumbzup:

Bernard


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## CannonFodder (Dec 2, 2014)

Dranreb said:


> Great idea Bob, today I will be mostly making one for my shaper, thanks for showing us that simply marvelous gadget....:thumbzup:
> 
> Bernard



Thanks  Bernard, I hope you will be able to show us how it works out on the shaper.


CannonFodder

Bob


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## Ulma Doctor (Dec 2, 2014)

Hi Bob,
i know the next shop tool project now!!!!!
thanks for showing it!!!!!
:thumbzup3:


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## Fabrickator (Dec 3, 2014)

I use my vise all the time on the mill and this would be a nice project although I can dial it in within a couple of passes with my laser edge finder. I'm thinking that I will make mine adjustable to fine tune it, and I will also make it adaptable for setting the vise up in the other direction as well.  I seem to use mine equally in both positions.


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## Dranreb (Dec 3, 2014)

Fabrickator said:


> I'm thinking that I will make mine adjustable to fine tune it, and I will also make it adaptable for setting the vise up in the other direction as well.  I seem to use mine equally in both positions.



My thinking as well, and it's taking some thinking that's for sure....

Bernard


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## Canuck75 (Dec 8, 2014)

Karl_T said:


> Ah, another way to skin the cat. Good job.
> 
> I put keys on the bottom of the vise so the gaps in the table do the locating.
> 
> Karl




Interesting topic as I have also been toying with a quick vise setup and would prefer to use keys in the vise base idea. I have a King PDM 30 (Rong Fu RF 31) vintage 2000 made in Taiwan and for whatever reason decided to check out the table and the T slots to see how true they were. Using a fitted piece of steel proved that the slots are are very accurately sized all over the table. I put a DI in the quill and dialed the back of the table end to end, both sides of each slot, and the front of the table. In theory, if the slots are all parallel to the table, and if the table is perfectly parallel to the X dovetails, then moving any part past a single point (the DI stylus) should give a continuous reading of zero. If the table is cockeyed to the X dovetails then the sides of the table will show an error as will the T-slots if they are not parallel to the table itself.

I was very pleased that the table itself has zero runout end to end and is also parallel front to back. The T-slots however are slightly out, with the worst one having a .002" error. This is not an big issue unless you want to use vise keys. To me a vise setup need to be exact. I haven't decided what to do except to continue dialling the vise in.

Since I haven't heard anyone discussing this issue I am putting it out there as food for thought. Try dialling your table and slots to see what you are dealing with.


Canuck75


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## Hamstn (Dec 8, 2014)

CannonFodder said:


> That is a good idea also, but I'm afraid that my gaps are not smooth and finished nicely.  I think I would get a different result based on the position of the table.
> 
> CannonFodder


Not sure if it would make difference but don't make the key sit very far down in the gaps. Just enough to register. I cut mine a bit loose so I push the vice towards column and tighten down. Always close enough.


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## Mark_f (Dec 8, 2014)

Fabrickator said:


> I use my vise all the time on the mill and this would be a nice project although I can dial it in within a couple of passes with my laser edge finder. I'm thinking that I will make mine adjustable to fine tune it, and I will also make it adaptable for setting the vise up in the other direction as well.  I seem to use mine equally in both positions.



That is an excellent idea as I turn  my vise 90 degrees frequently. I will just clamp it down and mill one end perpendicular to the register surface and fasten another bar across the end. then I can use it in both directions.

I learn something new here all the time,

Mark Frazier


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