# Bandsaw or hacksaw, that is the question



## MontanaLon (Sep 27, 2019)

I need a power saw, OK I want a power saw, hand hacksawing through various thicknesses of steel and aluminum isn't a whole lot of fun. Latest adventure in sawing was 4 cuts in 1" thick x 3" wide mild steel for AXA tool holders. Each cut took probably 20 minutes as I went slow to keep the cuts straight and perpendicular and took breaks to avoid having a heart attack.

I have been looking at bandsaws and hacksaws on the various want ads and they are available in about the same price range. I actually see quite a few of the harbor freight 4x6 bandsaws, "hardly used" for $100 to $150. But I also see a lot of negative reviews of the saw online. Add to that my penchant for old iron and it makes the hacksaw option even more viable.

When I weigh out the pros and cons, the hacksaws actually have a fighting chance with the biggest pro being the cheapness and availability of blades. 12" hacksaw blades are dirt cheap and can be picked up anywhere and quite a bit of them are made in the USA. I know the bandsaw would be faster when I am not putting the blade back on that is.

So what are your opinions? Any cons I am overlooking in the hacksaws?


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## mikey (Sep 28, 2019)

I highly recommend you go for a horizontal/vertical bandsaw. The HF saws get a lot of bad press but there are thousands of them out there that are working hard day after day once they are tuned up to run well. A better saw in the same size category is the Jet 5X7 - this is an outstanding small HV bandsaw and is what I own. A Lenox 10-14 vari-tooth bi-metal blade lasts for over 5 years on this saw and will cut within a thou of dead straight. 

The reason for a HV saw is that it allows you to cut raw stock in the horizontal position with zero effort, then you can raise it to the vertical position to trim pieces of stock to shape easily and quickly like any bandsaw does. Can't do that with a power hacksaw.

This is one of the most used tools in my shop and I would not want to do without it.


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## mickri (Sep 28, 2019)

I went through the same issues.  Using my trusty old hacksaw got to be a tiring PITA.  I first bought an old craftsman vertical band saw.  SPM is too fast to cut big chunks of steel.  Does fine on sheet metal.  Then I ran across an old craftsman 3x6  at a farm auction for $40.  Got a new blade and cleaned it up.  Still trying to get straight cuts.  So for now I cut over size to compensate and mill the ends flat.  What a joy to use compared to a hacksaw.

But you still need that hacksaw for some stuff.


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## ttabbal (Sep 28, 2019)

I have the HF H/V saw. It needed a little work, but it runs great now. I'm running a blade that claims to be US made from HF (thus the "claims"). It's been working great for a long while now. Better than the Bosch blades I was getting from Lowes. I'll probably order a Lenox as I hear good things about them on here. 

I use the vertical setup more than I thought I would. But it usually runs horizontal for rough cuts. I haven't tried to make it as straight as mikey's saw. I figure it's for roughing and use the mill and lathe to make sure the part is straight. Based on depth of cut I need to square up the parts, I'd say it's within 0.010. 

The power hacksaws are fun to watch, but I don't think I'd trade.


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## francist (Sep 28, 2019)

MontanaLon said:


> 12" hacksaw blades are dirt cheap and can be picked up anywhere


This is quite true, but a power hacksaw does not run on ordinary 1/2” wide blades that a hand hacksaw does. And they are becoming not so easy to come by. Starrett makes some power hacksaw blades as does Eclipse and maybe Bahco, but after that I’m not sure. As for cheap, not.
I have both, 4x6 bandsaw as well as a good sized Keller 3WA that will cut 7x7. Bandsaw gets used 9 out of 10 times, and a blade will last me easily a year or more.

-frank

Edit: ok, might have spoken a bit too soon. Looks like some of the smaller power hacksaws may use a regular blade by the looks of some of the pictures. Mine definitely does not though.


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## benmychree (Sep 28, 2019)

Count me a hacksaw man; but, not any machine that takes less than a 14" blade, even then, machines like the Keller are too wimpy.  I have, presently, a 6 X 6 Peerless saw, it is OK, but previously, I had a Marvel saw that took 3 TPI blades; I challenge HF to try to keep up with it!


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## Martin W (Sep 28, 2019)

Both work well. Sharp blades are important. They like to wander when they get dull. I use a nice steady steam of cutting oil for both my horizontal bandsaw and power hacksaw, keeps the chips moving away. (messy though when parts are covered in oil)
I would say my 18" hacksaw cuts faster than my bandsaw. The blade is pretty coarse compared to the bandsaw.
Cheers
Martin


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## Downunder Bob (Sep 28, 2019)

For me a bandsaw all the way, much more versatile. Mine was originally made for horizontal only, but I have modified it so it now can be use as a vertical saw as well, bug improvement. my saw has a variable speed control from quite slow, top rather fast,

I have had a local blade guy make me up a variety of blades from very fine to fairly coarse, so now I can cut thin and thick metal and also wood. I use mine quite a bit for cutting firewood to length. 

Next best tool after the lathe. Most of my metals supplies are from scrap bins of local manufacturers, so I'm always cutting up pieces to get what I want.


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## projectnut (Sep 28, 2019)

I have all 3 style saws in the shop.  A Startrite horizontal/vertical bandsaw, a converted Rockwell vertical bandsaw, and a Racine power hacksaw.  By far the most used is the Startrite horizontal/vertical, although it's never been used in the vertical position.  The next most used one is the Racine 14" power hacksaw, and the least used is the Rockwell vertical.

The Startrite is the HW175 model (7"x11").   It does 85%+ of all the sawing.   It can be used either wet or dry.  I use it dry with an Ellis 10-14 bimetal blade.  It's an excellent machine, and was well worth the money.  The 3/4"x 98" blades usually run between $30.00 and $42.00 depending on the blade material and tooth configuration.  Depending on hours of use they generally last 2-3 years.

The Racine power hacksaw is the next most used.  It's generally put into service when the Startrite is busy.  This is a 14" wet saw with 2 blade speeds.  Either 100 strokes per minute, or 140 strokes per minute.  We used this style saw exclusively in the shop where I worked, and to be truthful I bought it not only because I knew it would dependable, but also for slightly nostalgic reasons.  I have a variety of blades for this saw ranging from 3tpi to 14 tpi.  It's a dependable workhorse that will probably last another 50 years (mine was built in 1966) with minimal maintenance.

The only downside to this style saw is that the blades are becoming increasingly more expensive.  I used to buy them for $1.00 a piece or less when they fell out of favor in professional shops.  The last few times I purchased blades I paid a little over $3.00 per blade.  However more recently I see the asking price for the higher quality (Starrett, Blu Mol, etc.) in the $20.00 range.  I couldn't understand why there was such a drastic increase in price until I looked in the MSC online catalog.  They are asking $22.00 to $28.00 for 14" Starrett blades.  I think all the other online and eBay vendors are copying their prices.  I do like the saw and to keep it running I have stocked up on blades.  I now have in the neighborhood of 60 blades in the cabinet, and keep my eyes open should more appear at a price I'm willing to pay.

These are excellent, well built, and accurate saws.  They can generally be bought for about the same price as a HF bandsaw, however it will take some vigilant searching to find blades at a reasonable price.  If you're thinking of going this route keep in mind the larger the saw the more expensive the blades.  I have seen vendors asking nearly $100.00 per blade for the 24" size.

Another style saw worth looking into is a Cold Saw.  There are now several models on the market that closely resemble the standard abrasive chop saw.  The main difference is that the blade speed is usually in the 1,800 rpm range rather than the 5,000 rpm range.  Blade tooth configurations are usually from 50 to 100 teeth depending on the material to be cut.  The price of the saws range from around $200.00 to well over $1,000.00.  The blades range in price from $50.00 to well over $200.00 again depending on the size and configuration.

I am currently converting an older B&D chop saw for use on aluminum stock.  I picked up the saw nearly 20 years ago for almost nothing.  It's sat in the corner until recently.  I purchased a speed controller to lower the blade speed to 2,000 rpm, bought a 100 tooth aluminum blade, and am currently making a table to accommodate long stock.

Racine 14" power hacksaw:



Startrite Horizontal/Vertical Bandsaw:



Rockwell Vertical Bandsaw:


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## coherent (Sep 28, 2019)

I started with a 14" dewalt chop saw. Got tired of the mess and sparks, not to mention a couple of small fires I started in my garage. Bought one of the evolution rage cold saws that I read good things about... motor burnt out the second time I used it. (I was only cutting thin wall steel tubing and taking my time) Luckily I bought via Amazon, so back it went. Bought a small HF Horizontal Bandsaw to see if it would work and be something I'd really use. A couple months later I sold the chop saw and never looked back. Lots of info and mods listed online. Used it so often I decided to upgrade to a Grizzly 7x12 1hp with a hydraulic feed and coolant system. Love it and use it often. I'd never go back to a chop saw.   Maybe I just got a lemon with the evolution, but can't recommend them based on my experience. Horizontal band saws are the way to go!


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## eugene13 (Sep 28, 2019)

I've had a Japan Electric Tool (JET) H/V band saw since 2002, the only parts I've had to replace was the bearing on the take-up wheel and the blade guides bearings which are the same as skateboard wheel bearings.  Lots of bang for your buck.


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## benmychree (Sep 28, 2019)

projectnut said:


> I have all 3 style saws in the shop.  A Startrite horizontal/vertical bandsaw, a converted Rockwell vertical bandsaw, and a Racine power hacksaw.  By far the most used is the Startrite horizontal/vertical, although it's never been used in the vertical position.  The next most used one is the Racine 14" power hacksaw, and the least used is the Rockwell vertical.
> 
> The Startrite is the HW175 model (7"x11").   It does 85%+ of all the sawing.   It can be used either wet or dry.  I use it dry with an Ellis 10-14 bimetal blade.  It's an excellent machine, and was well worth the money.  The 3/4"x 98" blades usually run between $30.00 and $42.00 depending on the blade material and tooth configuration.  Depending on hours of use they generally last 2-3 years.
> 
> ...


My Peerless 6 X 6 power hacksaw used soluble oil for coolant, but it was always going bad and rusting the chips into a solid mass; I finally cleaned it out (it was quite nasty in the coolant reservoir) and replaced the coolant with a mixture 50/50 of cutting oil and kerosene. This is what was recomended for the Marvel saw that I had in my shop downtown; with the addition of kerosene the work and blade are MUCH cooler during and after the cut, and if the oil stream is mostly directed on the blade, there is little mess.


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## projectnut (Sep 28, 2019)

benmychree said:


> My Peerless 6 X 6 power hacksaw used soluble oil for coolant, but it was always going bad and rusting the chips into a solid mass; I finally cleaned it out (it was quite nasty in the coolant reservoir) and replaced the coolant with a mixture 50/50 of cutting oil and kerosene. This is what was recomended for the Marvel saw that I had in my shop downtown; with the addition of kerosene the work and blade are MUCH cooler during and after the cut, and if the oil stream is mostly directed on the blade, there is little mess.



I know exactly what you mean when you say "rusting the chips into a solid mass".  My Racine had similar coolant, and a similar mess when I got it.  I chipped and scraped the mass out of the reservoir for nearly a week.  I finally disassembled the entire machine and took it to a do it yourself car wash.  The combination hot, high pressure, soapy water made short work of the remaining crud.

I have a gallon of Trim SC520 coolant, but so far the work it's done hasn't required it.  For now I just use a spray bottle with a little Cool Mist.  I temporarily blocked off the drain to the reservoir, and just wipe the remnants out of the tray.


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## C-Bag (Sep 28, 2019)

I guess I never expected any kind of saw to be so accurate as to not need machining if precision was what I needed. The problem with saws is if you could look into each respondents projects you'd see it depends on what you do. Big heavy long stuff, big horizontal. Never been around a functioning powered hacksaw so no opinion. Medium like tubing, shafting etc is what I was mostly doing with the HF 4x6. Then I started doing oddball and small stuff and the 4x6 was a pain. 

I'm way to ADD and lazy to hacksaw anything that can be done with a machine so one of the first shop tools I got was a HF 4x6 HV saw in the early 80's. It as been a total workhorse and the only thing I've replaced is the roller guides. But I realized I was using it more and more vertical so went and found me an old 14" HF vertical wood bandsaw and converted it to cut metal and it's become my most used tool in the shop. Especially since I made an air powered sled for it so I don't have to stand there and push. I've cut chunks of 4" steel shaft, huge chunks of cast iron etc. Set up the sled to clamp the work, set the air pressure and let er go.


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## Tinker2 (Sep 28, 2019)

I'm with C-Bag. A 14" vertical wood bandsaw converted to cut metal. I would like to have a vintage power hacksaw as well...


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## mickri (Sep 28, 2019)

C Bag
How did you convert your wood band saw to cut metal?


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## C-Bag (Sep 28, 2019)

mickri said:


> C Bag
> How did you convert your wood band saw to cut metal?


Found an old HF 14" on CL for $50. Did a double reduction to take the blade speed from 3,000fpm to 120fpm. Put a metal blade and nice blade guides. All in was $350.


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## davidcarmichael (Sep 29, 2019)

MontanaLon said:


> I need a power saw, OK I want a power saw, hand hacksawing through various thicknesses of steel and aluminum isn't a whole lot of fun. Latest adventure in sawing was 4 cuts in 1" thick x 3" wide mild steel for AXA tool holders. Each cut took probably 20 minutes as I went slow to keep the cuts straight and perpendicular and took breaks to avoid having a heart attack.
> 
> I have been looking at bandsaws and hacksaws on the various want ads and they are available in about the same price range. I actually see quite a few of the harbor freight 4x6 bandsaws, "hardly used" for $100 to $150. But I also see a lot of negative reviews of the saw online. Add to that my penchant for old iron and it makes the hacksaw option even more viable.
> 
> ...



 I just bought an HF 12 X 7 band saw after using an old HF 5 X 7 for many years and I cannot emphasize the difference enough. The larger band saw is wonderful and well worth the extra cash (especially if you use a coupon that still covers Central Machinery, contact me if you need one). It is so fast and so easy, clean and straight that there is no comparison. I replaced the blade (of course) with a 14/10 TPI bi-metal blade and the results are stunning, fast, clean, with coolant or without. Fantastic.


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## Buffalo21 (Sep 29, 2019)

I have a 14” Rockwell metal cutting bandsaw, a 4” x 6” Keeler power hacksaw, a 7” x 14” Wilton/Jet horizontal/vertical bandsaw, a 9” Wilton wet cut saw, a 14” Milwaukee dry cut saw and a LS 160 Hem saw, drop bandsaw. Most of the cutting I do, is done with the Hems or Milwaukee saws, bigger stuff get the Wilton/Jet saw. The power hacksaw to me is much like a shaper, fascinating to watch, but slower than death.


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## WCraig (Sep 29, 2019)

For those of us that are space-challenged in our workshops, what is the consensus on portable bandsaw units?  I'm mostly dealing with smaller stock so it seems like a good option to me.  OTOH, they are not inexpensive.  Do they work well?  Do they last?  Do blades break often?  Can you get good blades for reasonable money?  Etc.

Craig


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## Downunder Bob (Sep 29, 2019)

I'm assuming you are thinking of the cordless variety like makita or milwaukee and others make. Yes they work, but ae4 inclined to be underpowered, for anything but the light set of work. I did consider them before I bought my HAfco 5 x 5 

One sales guy was very honest and basically talked me out of buying one. I had narrowed it down to Makita, for various reasons that suited me. I'm not saying one is better than the other because I haven't tried them all.

Anyway the sales guy said they were really only intended for use on construction sits for cutting steel frame sections that are made from rolled and folded sheet steel sections as used in steel framed housing for domestic use. For that they work quite well, and certainly better than a hacksaw. he loaned me a demo model they had for a few hours, I bought it home and tried it out on some bar stock I had just flat and round MS. Yes it cut it but was slow. It convinced me to buy a proper band saw, and I haven't looked back. 

Blade breakage is very much how you use it. If you allow it to twist the blade while cutting yes the will break. Also the problem with blades is cost if you have to buy the proprietary brand blades.However if you have someone near you that makes bandsaw blades it should be much cheaper. This more or less true with any type of bandsaw.

However if your use is more like the house builders then have  a good look and make a choice.


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## Winegrower (Sep 29, 2019)

I kind of lucked into my Kalamazoo 9”x16” bandsaw before I realized how useful it is.   The size is part of the usefulness...not that I’m going to cut 16” I-beams up, but for example, I sawed some 12” metal roofing up like it was butter.   Also, I have split some 14” bars in half lengthwise.    I also made a pallet with clamps to hold smaller pieces faster and more accurately...see POTD writeup.   

I would like a vertical metal saw, but not enough to actually buy one and make room for it.


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## Logan 400 (Sep 29, 2019)

WCraig, I don't have  knowledge about all the brands but we have used the DeWalt and Milwaukee in the field. The Milwaukee last longer and seems to be more durable for our use. Mostly cutting emt, unistrut, and threaded rod to 1/2".
Jay


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## NCjeeper (Sep 29, 2019)

My vote is for a 7x12 H/V bandsaw. Bought mine in 2004 and its been great. Enough grunt to plow through large diameter stuff.


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## gjmontll (Sep 29, 2019)

I had hoped the HP 4x6 portable bandsaw would be right for my infrequent cutting of jobs beyond the normal handheld hacksawing. But even with an upgrade to Milwaukee brand blades, it was disappointingly slow and loud. I found that a chop saw was no answer either.

Going outside the scope of this topic: For "heavier" cutting jobs, my current choice is a reciprocating saw; I have the HF one. It cuts much faster than the chop or band saw and many blade choices are available. The Milwaukee "Torch" blades work well. Weakness of this approach is limited accuracy and I often start with a hacksaw cut for at least a straight start.

For lighter cutting, I use a Rockwell Bladerunner (basically a jigsaw).


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## mikey (Sep 29, 2019)

@gjmontll, I don't own a HF saw but mine is similar, at least in shape. These saws can be tuned to perform quite well, and then it is the choice of blade that brings it home. Before you give up on your 4X6, I suggest you try a Lenox Diemaster 2, 10-14 variable pitch bi-metal blade for general work. This blade, at least on my saw, cuts everything from Delrin to Stainless to carbon steel to wood and does it fast and accurate. They seem to last a long time when used on a well-tuned saw. My current Lenox blade is at least 5 years old and the one before this one went even longer. You might give it a try.


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## jsh (Sep 29, 2019)

I picked up a Milwaukee portaband, deep throat. Same auction I got the vise base that it fastens too and works as a small band saw.

Buddy has been making knives and wanted a metal band saw. I ran across a  place that makes a table that bolts on to a portaband.

swagoffroad.com


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## C-Bag (Sep 29, 2019)

benmychree said:


> Count me a hacksaw man; but, not any machine that takes less than a 14" blade, even then, machines like the Keller are too wimpy.  I have, presently, a 6 X 6 Peerless saw, it is OK, but previously, I had a Marvel saw that took 3 TPI blades; I challenge HF to try to keep up with it!


Wow, I can't even fathom a 3 TPI blade! You have to be cutting nothing thinner than 3/8" or so right? So you have no problem finding blades?

I prefer machines I can setup and let them do their own thing while I go do something else. Its why I love the old shaper and why I put an auto feed sled on the 14" verticle saw. The 4x6 automatically feeds itself. It is a true luxury to have all these plus a portaband too. Also have my sabre saw on a stationary mount for stuff the others can't do. Each one to their use because no one saw does it all.


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## gr8legs (Sep 30, 2019)

We have a 7x12 Horizontal / Vertical bandsaw and a DeWalt 872 cold saw (that replaced one of those awful abrasive cutoff saws - ugh!). 

90% of our cuts are done on the cold saw. It's fast and does a respectable job cutting stuff that will be processed further or welded as-is.

The bandsaw is nice when used in horizontal arrangement because you can set it up and do repetitive cuts without babysitting it. And the cuts are cleaner but when you use the coolant system it flows along the stock and piddles on the floor 

I had a power hacksaw long long ago but it is very slow going. 

If I could have only one saw it would be the cold saw - small footprint, fast cutting, relatively good, clean accurate cuts. JMHO

Stu


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## projectnut (Sep 30, 2019)

Several posters have mentioned that their power hacksaws are extremely slow compared to a bandsaw.  At the 140 strokes per minute speed my Racine saw  is cutting at slightly less than 61ft./min.  The bandsaw has 3 speeds of 60, 100, and 160 ft./min.  I run the bandsaw at the lowest speed for everything except plastics.  Essentially both saws are cutting at nearly identical speeds.

While the bandsaw can cut at substantially higher speeds, I've found over the years that it's extremely hard on blades.  At the lowest speed a blade usually lasts a minimum of 2 years, and more often closer to 5 years.  At the highest speed I'm lucky to get a year out of a blade.

Both saws can be set and left to run on their own.  They both have stock gauges for cutting multiple pieces of the same length.  They both have adjustable down feed pressure, and shut off at the end of each cut.  The power hacksaw also lifts at the end of each cutting stroke to avoid dragging and dulling the blade on the return stroke.  

As mentioned about the only downside of the power hacksaw is cost and availability of blades.  They are still quite common from most industrial suppliers, but can be relatively expensive.  The higher quality blades are now going for around $20.00 each for brands like Starrett.  I have still been able to find all I need new on eBay or from members of other bulletin boards for around $3.00 per blade.  Given they last nearly as long as the bandsaw blades they aren't all that expensive by comparison.  The average bandsaw blade now costs around $40.00 to $45.00 depending on length, width, material, and tooth configuration.

Here's are brochures for the Racine Power hacksaws, and the Startrite bandsaws:


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## davidcarmichael (Sep 30, 2019)

gr8legs said:


> We have a 7x12 Horizontal / Vertical bandsaw and a DeWalt 872 cold saw (that replaced one of those awful abrasive cutoff saws - ugh!).
> 
> 90% of our cuts are done on the cold saw. It's fast and does a respectable job cutting stuff that will be processed further or welded as-is.
> 
> ...


Does the loss of coolant result from the stock not being level or maybe oddly shaped stock?
I don't see this issue in mine.
I have a 7x12 and also a metal cutting miter saw and a 14" metal cutting chop saw (not cold saws, just carbide blades run at low speeds). The carbide saws are very fast but they do waste a bit more stock than the band saw and are very loud.


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## gjmontll (Sep 30, 2019)

mikey said:


> @gjmontll, I don't own a HF saw but mine is similar, at least in shape. These saws can be tuned to perform quite well, and then it is the choice of blade that brings it home. Before you give up on your 4X6, I suggest you try a Lenox Diemaster 2, 10-14 variable pitch bi-metal blade for general work. This blade, at least on my saw, cuts everything from Delrin to Stainless to carbon steel to wood and does it fast and accurate. They seem to last a long time when used on a well-tuned saw. My current Lenox blade is at least 5 years old and the one before this one went even longer. You might give it a try.


Mikey, Thanks for the tip. I'll look for those Lenox blades.


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## C-Bag (Sep 30, 2019)

That's what I have on my 4x6 too. Lowes actually had them for the 4x6 and my 14"! Must have been a fluke of stocking the new store as they don't have them anymore and swear they never did have them


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## MontanaLon (Oct 11, 2019)

Well I ended up with the harbor freight 4x6. It's a heavy little thing. Got it assembled and played with the adjustments to get it cutting straightish and then cut 4 pieces of 1/2 plate with it. So much easier than a hand hacksaw. Definitely money well spent.


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## Janderso (Oct 11, 2019)

MontanaLon,
Good for you.
I can’t believe you cut QCT holders by hand. You must be a stud.
I see plenty of hobbyists using the hf saws. I had one, it worked great.
I ended up with a Jet 7x14 coolant, auto feed. Love it.
I thought I ruined the Lennox 10-14. I-metal blade when I cut A2 steel 1x2”. It took forever, it’s in an annealed state.
Yesterday I cut some angle iron, the blade is fine. Learned something.
Be patient.


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## matthewsx (Oct 11, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> I guess I never expected any kind of saw to be so accurate as to not need machining if precision was what I needed. The problem with saws is if you could look into each respondents projects you'd see it depends on what you do. Big heavy long stuff, big horizontal. Never been around a functioning powered hacksaw so no opinion. Medium like tubing, shafting etc is what I was mostly doing with the HF 4x6. Then I started doing oddball and small stuff and the 4x6 was a pain.
> 
> I'm way to ADD and lazy to hacksaw anything that can be done with a machine so one of the first shop tools I got was a HF 4x6 HV saw in the early 80's. It as been a total workhorse and the only thing I've replaced is the roller guides. But I realized I was using it more and more vertical so went and found me an old 14" HF vertical wood bandsaw and converted it to cut metal and it's become my most used tool in the shop. Especially since I made an air powered sled for it so I don't have to stand there and push. I've cut chunks of 4" steel shaft, huge chunks of cast iron etc. Set up the sled to clamp the work, set the air pressure and let er go.



Hi, 

Would you post some details on your "sled"?

I have a vertical saw and that sounds like something I'd like to add to it.

Thanks,

John


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## projectnut (Oct 11, 2019)

If you think A2 is hard to cut you should try cutting an Inconel alloy sometime.  The company I worked for used Inconel to manufacture plastic extrusion dies.  The stuff was extremely hard to cut and machine.  When we had to cut 6" or 8" round stock we always used a Racine power hacksaw rather than a bandsaw.  Our Racine power hacksaws were the 66W4 models that could cut as slow as 35' per minute.  Anything faster (the next highest speed was 60'per minute) and the material would work harden and ruin the blades.  Once the stuff got work hardened it was nearly impossible to cut..  Typical time to cut an 8" round was in the several hour range.  The saw would be setup at the beginning of the shift and left to run until the job was completed. 

I see more recently people say they are cutting Inconel 625 at speeds as high as 70' per minute.  Maybe their tooling is better, or they are willing to sacrifice longevity for speed.  In any case I don't miss cutting or trying to machine the stuff


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## davidcarmichael (Oct 11, 2019)

MontanaLon said:


> Well I ended up with the harbor freight 4x6. It's a heavy little thing. Got it assembled and played with the adjustments to get it cutting straightish and then cut 4 pieces of 1/2 plate with it. So much easier than a hand hacksaw. Definitely money well spent.


Great choice.


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## C-Bag (Oct 11, 2019)

matthewsx said:


> Hi,
> 
> Would you post some details on your "sled"?
> 
> ...


Be thrilled to. I originally got the idea from a member Frank Ford and his setup on frets.com. His had a can full of lead regulating the feed. I'm more into air and can reg feed pressure with the little pressure regulator. I found a 1/2" air cyl on eBay and mounted under the table and made a threaded stud for it to engage the end of sled slot stock. The hardest part was finding the correct size stock and it would seem different makes use different slot sizes. I ended up buying a piece of 3/4x1/2" I think ground Starrett that fastenall had. Everything else was stock I had and machined 1/4" plate for the bed and the backstop was some mystery steel I use on saw and shaper. I've ended up with a collection of clamping options I keep on HF magnets on the upper guard. This is my most used machine tool and made life so much easier.


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## matthewsx (Oct 12, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> Be thrilled to. I originally got the idea from a member Frank Ford and his setup on frets.com. His had a can full of lead regulating the feed. I'm more into air and can reg feed pressure with the little pressure regulator. I found a 1/2" air cyl on eBay and mounted under the table and made a threaded stud for it to engage the end of sled slot stock. The hardest part was finding the correct size stock and it would seem different makes use different slot sizes. I ended up buying a piece of 3/4x1/2" I think ground Starrett that fastenall had. Everything else was stock I had and machined 1/4" plate for the bed and the backstop was some mystery steel I use on saw and shaper. I've ended up with a collection of clamping options I keep on HF magnets on the upper guard. This is my most used machine tool and made life so much easier.



Very nice, I assume the cylinder's travel ends where the slot on your sled does? Thanks for the idea, I'll look into making one of these for my dad's old Craftsman.


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## C-Bag (Oct 12, 2019)

matthewsx said:


> Very nice, I assume the cylinder's travel ends where the slot on your sled does? Thanks for the idea, I'll look into making one of these for my dad's old Craftsman.


Thanks. Yes the slot in the sled is the end of the travel of the air cyl travel. If I get back to it a limit switch that would shut the saw off might be a further mod. But so far it's not big deal.


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## Toolmaker51 (Oct 16, 2019)

Each saw [manual or power] has a niche.
Vertical bandsaw can do cutoff up to depth from blade to inner frame casting. One limitation is frequently caused by owners; placed in corner or alleyway that restricts ability to handle unlimited infeed length. Naturally, strong suit of vertical band saws is contouring inner & outer profiles.  Even against wire EDM, having tilt/ incline table for backside of dies, roughing draft into mold cavities, and regular mitering. Once saw a textbook showed examples of roughing turbine blades. . .
Horizontal bandsaw design allows unlimited infeed AND outfeed, all have a stop arrangement for repetitive work, again the narrow kerf consumes minimal stock. A conveyor-roller set up is not required; if you build a support, it is worthwhile that it levels in both planes. You'll see why when cutting flat plate. Unless a part requires being vertical, I position the teeth to the wider side. Saves a lot of milling to square up ends. They are good for bundle cutting too. A relatively small footprint can handle large material, miters, and needs little attention while cutting. _Marvel_ patterned machines simplify mitering by tilting the wheel-head. Certain _Wellsaw _machines descend on guide posts instead of being hinged; handy when cope notching is called for.
Power hacksaws aren't so well understood now-a-days. But they are still being made, in frames so large few horizontal bandsaws can offer same capacity. Yet with out 2 wheels they are more compact. I still like them for tool steel; my little Craftsman and 12" Starrett Bimetal blades runs like a charm. A bit slower than band machines, I can do work while it proceeds, and blades are fractional in cost compared to bands. 2 or 3" cuts - No complaints!
Cold saws main attractions are fine finish, compact footprint, quiet operation and best mitering arrangements ever. Size for size, less capacity at a higher cost than normal saw options. The good finish is a time saver, saves milling one end on toleranced lengths. They consume 5 to 7x the material per cut of bandsaws.
I have six power saws 36" 3 wheel DoAll is my favorite, only lacks the big support post for cutting dies, and hydraulic feed. Another 36" is a 2 wheel Moak, a lot like a Crescent, not as stylish. It's direct drive and waiting for a VFD, essentially a woodworking re-saw, but I want to build a creeper base for it. Has bigger throat than the DoAll;  that is it's plus. BTW, my first big DIY old iron machine move; rigging, trailering, offload and all, freaking thing must be 9' tall and 2500+ lbs.
Milwaukee portable bandsaw, and chain vise table. Added a stop and rolling cart. Being able to use it as intended is the huge plus, none of the others like getting in a scaffold! 2 Craftsman saws; the power hack mentioned and their tiny horizontal band saw. Added stop rods to both of course. Being semi-portable means they have a secure home too.
Number 6 will be a shop sized horizontal, when the owner finally replies.
Wait one....it will be #7. Forgot ShopSmith bandsaw rig. Kind of small but easily made attachments, circle cutter, re-saw fence,  axial & lineal stock stops. Love the tilt table, standard 1/2" blades and variable FPM.
A lot of saws, yes. The Moak was first while looking for DoAll. Both came with a comparatively immense stock of blade rolls. DoAll has a welder, and I've had a independent DBW-15 welder forever. So they'll [bandsaws] each run economically and 100% free of infernal OSHA restrictions.


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## westerner (Oct 16, 2019)

I have a Delta 4x6, low budget horizontal, from the 70's, I would guess. I still do not grasp how a hacksaw can be better. I get to use all 64 inches of my blade, while even a BIG hacksaw will only use 75% of it's 16 inch blade length. Do not get me wrong. I have a Milwaukee porta-band, and 3 different manual hacksaws, and lots of blades for all of them. I must be dense, because I cannot see how the powered hacksaw can be better.


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## Toolmaker51 (Oct 16, 2019)

What a power-hack looses in efficient blade consumption, running wet they deliver a good finish in difficult materials using comparatively low cost blades. If not cutting squarely only one remedy is needed; replace blade. Same case in a band machine is far broader in scope and test cuts. They cut square naturally, handy enough for miters, and use little floor space for their capacity. 
While they've become disparaged against the advancements in band blades, the original abilities/ features haven't diminished. I wish you could have witnessed the bid competition at Long Beach Naval Shipyard for an immense 36 incher. Blade about 4" wide; imagine _minimum_ band saw length to get 36 cut size - (36 x 2) + (36 x 3.141)x2) 25 foot MOL, add machine size.  
Didn't have to throw the sales pitch on those guys.


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## Toolmaker51 (Oct 16, 2019)

Separately, chopsaws deserve mention. The common 14" wheel bench machines are best at structural shapes like angle [Vee down], channel iron [web vertical], tubing and all-thread. Solid cuts across flat sections are not efficient, but small size of the machine is the plus; portability is huge for some trades. The abrasive disc likes thinner ferrous metals; not having 'teeth' works for them.


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## C-Bag (Oct 16, 2019)

Toolmaker51 said:


> Separately, chopsaws deserve mention. The common 14" wheel bench machines are best at structural shapes like angle [Vee down], channel iron [web vertical], tubing and all-thread. Solid cuts across flat sections are not efficient, but small size of the machine is the plus; portability is huge for some trades. The abrasive disc likes thinner ferrous metals; not having 'teeth' works for them.


I don't like them for the noise and dust but they will go through hardened stuff no toothed blade even thought about going through! Right tool for the job.


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