# Quick change tool posts & indexable tools?



## Jason280 (Apr 19, 2019)

I recently picked up a Craftsman 101-07403 12x36" lathe, which has the older "lantern" style tool post holder.  I'd like to replace it with a quick change tool post, and have been looking at some of the generic/import sets online.  Any suggestions on which style to go with, and is one style necessarily any better than the others?  Prices seem to be all over the place, but not sure I am ready to spend Aloris money quite yet.  Any ones to avoid?

I'd also like to go ahead and order a set of indexable turning/cutting tools, at least until I get comfortable grinding my own tool bits.  Any suggestions on those as well?  Thanks!


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## jbobb1 (Apr 19, 2019)

Personally I would avoid the piston style and go with the wedge.
When I'm looking at any new tooling, I check insert availability and cost.


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## Splat (Apr 19, 2019)

I had good luck with Phase II wedge type qctp. Now I use a Multifix type from Create Tool and like it a lot more than the standard qctp.


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## Ed ke6bnl (Apr 19, 2019)

I got mine at CDCO  I got the set for Axa and when I got a bigger lathe I ordered the BXA from then, all have been good.


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## jbobb1 (Apr 19, 2019)

Another thing to know is, if you happen to buy a economy wedge type tool post set, the tool holders will most likely fit the Dorian and Aloris post should you want to upgrade.


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## Jason280 (Apr 19, 2019)

> Personally I would avoid the piston style and go with the wedge.



Any particular reason?

eta:  This is the one I am looking at right now...





__





						Quick Change Tool Post Set Wedge Type #111 AXA
					

Shars Tool




					www.shars.com


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## jbobb1 (Apr 19, 2019)

A guy I worked with had the piston style on his hobby lathe (I think 12-13") and he had a situation where the holder came loose. He blamed it on vibration from a heavy cut he was taking.


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## Splat (Apr 19, 2019)

Repeatability is better with a wedge and seemingly more secure.


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## Jason280 (Apr 19, 2019)

Makes sense, I'll probably end up going with the Shars set I linked above.


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## Splat (Apr 19, 2019)

It'll be fine. Buy some extra holders cuz you'll eventually need them.


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## jbobb1 (Apr 19, 2019)

Looks like the AXA is out of stock. Take some measurements, the BXA may work with your lathe also. I use the BXA on a 13" Jet.


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## Splat (Apr 19, 2019)

Fwiw, I liked using the AXA size on my 12x36 because it gave me little more room to position the tools. The BXA is definitely bigger and unless you plan on taking really big cuts all the time the AXA will work fine. Oh, and the holders are cheaper than BXA.


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## Aaron_W (Apr 19, 2019)

I have the OXA QCTP from Little Machine Shop and have been happy with it. They also offer the AXA and BXA sizes which would fit your lathe.

https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2280&category=-419988835


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## matthewsx (Apr 19, 2019)

I’ve been happy with the Accusize one I put on my Seneca Falls 9” Star. It seemed like a good price point too.


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## T Bredehoft (Apr 19, 2019)

Consider: If you buy as 'set" you'll get 5 tool holders three specialty and two misc. The three specialty are Cut off Tool, probably the most used of the three, a boring bar holder and a push knurler.  The push knurler won't work well on a 6" lathe, nothing is solid enough, the boring bar holder, well, their use is pretty limited. I'd look for a used AXA post and just buy a number of Misc holders. (101s)


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## MrWhoopee (Apr 19, 2019)

When I owned my shop, it was Aloris or Dorian. Wedge style only for repeatability. Now that I'm a hobbyist, I bought a Bostar AXA for my SB Heavy 10. It's everything I would want, excellent repeatability and an excellent price. For your machine, I'd go with a BXA
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BOSTAR-BXA...265432?hash=item3f2b0dd118:g:CMAAAOSwFSNcMQwY 

Or the bonus package with extra holders
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BOSTAR-BXA...409614?hash=item41fe2fa54e:g:pCAAAOSwiwZcMQxq


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## Jason280 (Apr 19, 2019)

How do I determine whether I need the AXA or BXA size?


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## MrWhoopee (Apr 19, 2019)

A 12 in. machine is right on the cusp. You could get by with an AXA, but might need a spacer under the TP to get to optimum height. A BXA is a larger and therefore more rigid TP. Of course, the machine itself may be the limiting factor when it comes to rigidity. Your call.


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## darkzero (Apr 19, 2019)

Jason280 said:


> How do I determine whether I need the AXA or BXA size?



Measure from the top surface of your compound slide (where the tool post sits on) to spindle centerline. If you have at least 1-1/8" height you can use BXA. If you have less than 1-1/8" height go with AXA. If you have less than 15/16" height then AXA won't work without modifications but for your lathe that shouldn't be the case.


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## Jason280 (Apr 20, 2019)

Looks like I will have to do a little measuring...


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## Buffalo21 (Apr 20, 2019)

MrWhoopee said:


> A 12 in. machine is right on the cusp. You could get by with an AXA, but might need a spacer under the TP to get to optimum height. A BXA is a larger and therefore more rigid TP. Of course, the machine itself may be the limiting factor when it comes to rigidity. Your call.



According to Dorian and Aloris, you will not gain any rigidity going from a AXA to a BXA, in a home shop situation, as on most lathes the carriage and the compound will flex long before the tool post will.


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## toploader (Apr 20, 2019)

I have an import piston style cxa tool post that came with one of my lathes. When you set the tooling up on center it moves when you engage the piston by .003.  

I was using one of edge products height adjustment tools. I use it every time to make sure the tool height stays consistent.


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## ddickey (Apr 20, 2019)

Saw this today on CL.
You might want to check to see if he'd ship.








						Lathe QCTP Quick Change Tool Post
					

I've got an Quick Change Tool post that I don't have a use for as my lathe is already well outfitted. This is smaller than the BXA size post I put on my lathe, so I assume it's an AXA size, but don't



					minneapolis.craigslist.org


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## akabud (Apr 21, 2019)

Check Banggood for indexable tools.








						WWLNR/L1616H/K08 16x100mm Lathe Turning Tool Holder With 10pcs WNMG080404 Inserts
					

Only US$38.99, buy best WWLNR1616H/K08+WWLNL1616H/K08 Lathe Turning Tool Holder With 10pcs WNMG080404 Inserts sale online store at wholesale price.




					www.banggood.com
				












						7pcs 16mm Shank Lathe Turning Tool Holder Boring Bar CNC Tools Set With Carbide Inserts And Wrenches
					

Only US$62.99, buy best 7pcs 16mm Shank Lathe Turning Tool Holder Boring Bar CNC Tools Set With Carbide Inserts And Wrenches sale online store at wholesale price.




					www.banggood.com


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## kd4gij (Apr 21, 2019)

I have the same lathe as the op and an AXA is a perfect fit.  I also use both piston and wedge style and find no difference in them.


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## rogerl (Apr 21, 2019)

I have an Aloris BXA tool post that I bought on Craig's List. The Aloris BXA 1 tool holders are $72.00 and the Import BXA 1 (250-201) tool holders are $17.00. What is the difference between them? Are the Aloris brand name holders worth the extra money?

Thanks
Roger L


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## kd4gij (Apr 21, 2019)

In a word, no.  Unless looks is a priority.


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## jdedmon91 (Apr 21, 2019)

Buffalo21 said:


> According to Dorian and Aloris, you will not gain any rigidity going from a AXA to a BXA, in a home shop situation, as on most lathes the carriage and the compound will flex long before the tool post will.



Yes this is true, my Grizzly G0750g is a BXA, ncjeeper has an enco that is the same size and has an AXA on his. We both get the same performance. Only difference is the slots tend to be a bit wider on the BXA block. Of course you can make or modify yours to that. 


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## jdedmon91 (Apr 21, 2019)

kd4gij said:


> I have the same lathe as the op and an AXA is a perfect fit. I also use both piston and wedge style and find no difference in them.



IHMO I prefer the wedge because it provides more surface to lock, this is important when using parting tools 


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## jdedmon91 (Apr 21, 2019)

rogerl said:


> I have an Aloris BXA tool post that I bought on Craig's List. The Aloris BXA 1 tool holders are $72.00 and the Import BXA 1 (250-201) tool holders are $17.00. What is the difference between them? Are the Aloris brand name holders worth the extra money?
> 
> Thanks
> Roger L



I have the import holders also. Since I’ve never had the real McCoys I can only comment on hearsay. The fit and finish and the set screws are better on the Aloris ones. 

Most folks change out the set screws on the import tool holders. 


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## jdedmon91 (Apr 21, 2019)

In my shop I use some tool posts, but I made a lot of custom blocks. I posted this collection of tools on video on another thread but for information here is the link again






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## T Bredehoft (Apr 21, 2019)

I saw your post and made some of my own. One was a 3/4 square TPG insert holder, 8 were made from 1 1/8 round bar stock, previously owned, little cost in them. I put HSS tools in them.


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## Dabbler (Apr 21, 2019)

Set screws are cheap and easy to replace.  the block of steel that makes up an toolholder is less important - if it fits, it's good enough (except aluminum tool holders, and I think they are inferior)...


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## Jason280 (Apr 22, 2019)

Haven't ordered a tool post yet, but went ahead and made a T nut...


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## jwmay (Apr 22, 2019)

No comment on the toolpost dilemma, but you may be wasting your money with indexable tooling. There can be had, a set of pre ground hss toolbits. That’s where I’d put that money. That’ll also provide you with some examples in hand to emulate.


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## rogerl (Apr 22, 2019)

Do the import holders have inch or metric set screws? I would hate to have another Alan wrench for the metric set screws.

Thanks
Roger L


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## Jason280 (Apr 22, 2019)

> but you may be wasting your money with indexable tooling



That has crossed my mind, but looks like a standard threading tool and possibly a cutoff may be OK...assuming the inserts are easy to find (and not overly expensive).  As far as basic turning tools, I honestly have no idea.


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## darkzero (Apr 22, 2019)

rogerl said:


> I have an Aloris BXA tool post that I bought on Craig's List. The Aloris BXA 1 tool holders are $72.00 and the Import BXA 1 (250-201) tool holders are $17.00. What is the difference between them? Are the Aloris brand name holders worth the extra money?
> 
> Thanks
> Roger L



Quality is the difference (of course ). I have seen import holders with crooked milled slots & crooked adjuster nuts but for the most part most are ok. As mentioned the set screws on most import holders suck. I always replace them with flat tip set screws before even using them. USA holders are much harder. The import ones are hardened but not that hard. But many people make their own holders & don't bother to harden them. I have a USA QCTP but most of my holders are import with only a handful of Dorian holders.

For the BXA size specifically, import ones are shorter in length than Aloris or Dorian holders. There are 2 versions of the import holders. The other version is longer in length but they use smaller diameter set screws (M8). I'm not a fan of this style. I prefer the shorter ones with larger set screws (M10). Shars actually sell both versions these days. When I had an AXA I never encountered different length holders like with BXA.



rogerl said:


> Do the import holders have inch or metric set screws? I would hate to have another Alan wrench for the metric set screws.
> 
> Thanks
> Roger L



The import holders have metric set screws. However....

Most of my import holders are from Shars, purchased back before they carried both versions. As mentioned above I prefer the ones with the larger set screws. What was odd is that the set screws were metric thread M10x1.5 but had inch drive. Usually M10 set screws have 5mm hex drive & that's what the replacement set screws I use are. However the M10 set screws that came with the holders have 3/16" hex drive.

Originally I thought that the screws were just poorly made and they are but usually the hex drive is oversize with poorly made screws. But that's not the case here, 5mm don't even fit them but 3/16" fits them good. My Dorian USA holders are 3/16" drive. I've never seen screws sold with mismatched metric/inch threads & drives. Not sure if the current Shars BXA ones are still like that.


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## mikey (Apr 22, 2019)

I agree with Will. About half my AXA tool holders are Aloris, the other half Phase II. Very little physical difference in the tool holder body and Phase II uses okay set screws. The height adjusters are far superior on the Aloris holders and they are consistently hardened but beyond that, no, not worth buying Aloris or Dorian just to hold a tool. A small lathe just doesn't have the guts to even remotely stress a tool holder so I would go cheap on these things.


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## Jason280 (Apr 23, 2019)

I ended up going with the AXA, should be here in the next few days.


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## darkzero (Apr 23, 2019)

mikey said:


> I agree with Will. About half my AXA tool holders are Aloris, the other half Phase II. Very little physical difference in the tool holder body and Phase II uses okay set screws. The height adjusters are far superior on the Aloris holders and they are consistently hardened but beyond that, no, not worth buying Aloris or Dorian just to hold a tool. A small lathe just doesn't have the guts to even remotely stress a tool holder so I would go cheap on these things.



Agreed, I'm a believer that the quality of the tool post is more important than the holders. 

Yep the ones I have from Shars are indentical to the Phase II, even down to the engraving except Phase II uses better set screws & says Phase II on them. I used to buy them WT Tool cause they came unmarked (no branding). Then they started coming with the Shars logo on them. The bulk of mine that I got from Shars were before they started putting their logo on them. Not sure if they are still from the same factory. Lathemaster's QCTP & holders also came from the same factory except their AXA holder came premilled down for their 8x14 lathe. I had the LM QCTP AXA on my HF 8x14 before I got a DTM.

I wish I could have gotten a DTM in BXA for my current lathe. The guys who made DTM used to work for Aloris & claimed to have improved on Aloris' design. They were even located in the same city. Lol. I never took the DTM apart but what I noticed different were guides for the wedges. IIRC the owner eventually retired or something like that. I got the DTM AXA from a guy who purchased the remaining stock from DTM but the TP75a (BXA) QCTPs were long gone. No matter, I'm happy with my Dorian.

As you said the AXA holders were the same dimensions as Aloris but for some reason the import BXAs from that same manufacturer were not. No big deal but I always wondered why. The CDCO ones are from a different manufacturer. The quality of their holders are not as good but their price is the cheapest to be found.


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## mikey (Apr 23, 2019)

That DTM looks like a nice post. It says its patented so it has to be at least 10% different from the Aloris design. I think they're all about the same, especially on a hobby class lathe. These things are so rigid that the limiting factor is the platform upon which they sit. That's why I think a solid plinth with a tool post on it is probably the optimum configuration for most work.


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## darkzero (Apr 23, 2019)

That DTM was very nice, I miss it. Yeah, the Aloris design is a great one, hard to improve on it if at all possible. And for us hobby guys we would never notice the difference. However for import QCTPs, they are not all the same. I've seen some that were very sloppy right out the box as well as piston QCTPs vibrating loose.

I keep seeing more & more guys running a solid plinth. Not sure if Rob Renzetti was the first to do it on a manual lathe but he sure did make it popular. As great as it sounds & performs I'm not sure if I will make one though. Sure would be nice to have more rigidty & possibly take bigger DOCs but I use my compound a lot.


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## mikey (Apr 23, 2019)

darkzero said:


> I keep seeing more & more guys running a solid plinth. Not sure if Rob Renzetti was the first to do it on a manual lathe but he sure did make it popular. As great as it sounds & performs I'm not sure if I will make one though. Sure would be nice to have more rigidty & possibly take bigger DOCs but I use my compound a lot.



Nah, Robin wasn't the first; the British have been using plinths or something similar for decades. They've also used rear mounted tooling for decades, too. I think this is because the model engineers only had smaller, less rigid lathes to mess with and there were some really brilliant guys back then, like GH Thomas. We, all of us, are standing on the shoulders of giants.

I have a plinth in progress. Suckers been not-completed for almost 3 years now. Just haven't had time to finish the stupid thing. I actually use my compound a lot, too, to cut chamfers or trepan something real quick. And it isn't like my compound is wimpy. The Super 11 compound is solid enough to take heavy cuts without moving. 

The main reason for making a plinth is to use it to support a rear mounted parting tool on it. My cross slide had T-slots that allow the plinth to slide to the rear and be locked down with two screws. Then I can mount a parting tool or knurling tool back there and it should be far more rigid than using a compound for these tasks. Besides, I plan to mount a graver tool rest to the thing so I can use my gravers on my larger lathe. 

What I will NOT do is fix the tool post. I think that's fine for carbide insert users but for HSS guys it is too restrictive.


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## Buffalo21 (Apr 23, 2019)

Will,

You said the quality of the CDCO blocks was lower, how so??, I’ve bought over 300 of the AXA blocks from them, I never had one that didn’t fit or work as intended. The only thing I do is replace the set screws with 8 mm x 1.25 mm x 20 mm square head, full dog point set screws.


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## Buffalo21 (Apr 23, 2019)

I’ve had a cheap Grizzly, a Phase II, 3 different Aloris and currently a Dorian. There was a noticeable difference between the cheap Grizzly tool post and the others, but other than the fit and finish, I can not said any of the others work any better than the others ones. I bought the Dorian, because they touted their new and improved wedge design, with allegedly multiple improvements over the “standard Aloris design”, there may be differences, but I never seen or felt them. Maybe it’s the difference between home shop and production operation, but for me, I could have saved a lot of cash, by staying with the Phase II, as since then, except for possible “status” points, I really gained nothing, performance wise.


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## darkzero (Apr 23, 2019)

Buffalo21 said:


> Will,
> 
> You said the quality of the CDCO blocks was lower, how so??, I’ve bought over 300 of the AXA blocks from them, I never had one that didn’t fit or work as intended. The only thing I do is replace the set screws with 8 mm x 1.25 mm x 20 mm square head, full dog point set screws.



I've received a few holders from them that had crooked threads on the adjusters as well as some that had poor finishes. Looked like a saw blade cut. The finish was just cosmetic but the crooked adjusters were a headache to adjust height. I had to rerurn something once, took me months to get a refund. Never had a problem with them before but after that I stopped buying from them.


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## jdedmon91 (Apr 23, 2019)

mikey said:


> I agree with Will. About half my AXA tool holders are Aloris, the other half Phase II. Very little physical difference in the tool holder body and Phase II uses okay set screws. The height adjusters are far superior on the Aloris holders and they are consistently hardened but beyond that, no, not worth buying Aloris or Dorian just to hold a tool. A small lathe just doesn't have the guts to even remotely stress a tool holder so I would go cheap on these things.



That’s my opinion. I’ve never had a problem I could blame on the tool holder. More the operator of the lathe. 


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## jdedmon91 (Apr 23, 2019)

One thing else on the topic. My homemade and modified tools use 1/4 x20 all thread for the adjusters. I make the knurled adjuster my self. Then use a lock washer and nut for it. Never had a problem with tools staying on center. Now I did have a tool to jam one time and bent the adjuster because it was the weakest point. The only pressure on the adjuster is the block resting on it the force is on the dovetails 


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## Jason280 (Apr 29, 2019)

My AXA tool holder came in a couple of days ago, and I tried mounting it to the T-nut I fabbed up for the compound.  The supplied stud for the body of the holder is threaded M14-1.5 at the top, where the nut holds everything down.  On the other end of the stud, where it threads into the supplied bottom, is something _other_ than M14-1.5.  It might be M15, except I have no metric nuts/bolts/taps of that size to compare.  I have no idea why they would take a stud and tap it differently on either end, doesn't really make sense.


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## Boswell (Apr 29, 2019)

Jason280 said:


> I have no idea why they would take a stud and tap it differently on either end, doesn't really make sense.



maybe their M14-1.5 tap broke or was dull so they grabbed another handy tap


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## Dabbler (Apr 29, 2019)

Mine was imperial on top and M14X1.5 on the bottom.  Because of a shallow depth in the T nut, the M14X1.5 makes sense to me:  Holding power versus depth (stronger than 5/8 UNF) I might have preferred 15mm!


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## tjb (Apr 29, 2019)

Jason280 said:


> How do I determine whether I need the AXA or BXA size?


Jason,

I've had both for my lathe.  Started with an AXA and, almost by accident, acquired a BXA.  I think for light-duty work, they're pretty much interchangeable, but if an instance ever arises (and it will) where you need to do some heavier milling, the two are light-years apart.  All my AXA's are now gone.  If it will fit, spring for the BXA, and you'll only buy it once.

Regards,
Terry


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