# New 1340GT Coming and Need Assistance with VFD



## wrmiller (Jan 7, 2015)

Hello all,

I will be receiving my 1340GT later this month or so and thought I'd ask some questions of Mike (zmotorsports) and others that have knowledge of this stuff.

My lathe motor is a single phase, but am getting a Leeson 3-phase motor and Hitachi VFD from Matt to go on the lathe. Question is, how exactly do I go about that?

Mike, when I read (and re-read) your thread I saw that you pulled much of the factory electrics out of the control box, but kept some. May I ask what you did and why (simple question but may not be a simple answer, I know)? I didn't even know what a 'contactor' was until I joined this form, but I do understand relays and switches.

What was the pot you used on the front panel, a 1k? Do you remember the make/model? What gauge wire do you need to run? And I'm not sure what/how you did the jog and fwd/rev switch. Are these control lines into the control portion of the VFD that you simply ground via a switch to make them active?

As you can see, I'm starting from a complete position of ignorance here as I'm not an electrician but more of a digital guy. 

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated, thanks guys. I'm hoping Ray sees this thread as well.


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## mksj (Jan 8, 2015)

Hi Bill,

The 3 phase motor should already be installed on the lathe. You will need to mount the VFD either in the lathe cabinet below the motor or in a separate wall mounted cabinet, as the machine control box is very small. After you have programmed and set-up the VFD, you do not need routine access to the VFD controls or display. Matt will send you a 1K pot and knob with the VFD, otherwise send me a PM with your address and I will send you one that I have. There is a fairly extensive description of the installation and programming here http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...s-to-the-control-switches-on-a-PM1340GT-lathe or download this file http://www.hobby-machinist.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87276&d=1415299403 .

The main power wiring to the VFD should be 12G (12/3 SOOW Power Cord, or 12/4 if you need 120V at the machine), you should have a service (power) disconnect before the VFD either on the machine or in the electrical cabinet housing the VFD. If using a separate electrical cabinet, I would use a 30A 2-pole 240V breaker. The electrical cabinet should be at least 4X the volume of the VFD and vented (cut holes)  on the bottom and/or add a small fan. If you mount it in the lathe cabinet, no cooling holes are  needed. Depending on the DRO, you may need 120V at the machine. The light provided with the lathe is 24V 50W (AC or DC), so you either need to retain the stock AC transformer (easiest) in the control box to power the light or replace it with a PWM 24V DC power supply. Depending on your set-up, you will need one or more relays for controls, these come in AC and DC 24V versions.  I recommend wiring as Mike has posted which uses the VFD's own 24 VDC power to drive the 4P 24VDC relay. You wire the controls as shown in his diagram and make the connections at the switch block in the control box. You need separate wiring for the speed control.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88283&d=1416750164
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/24887-My-Precision-Mathews-PM1340GT-Arrival

Braking resistor, 100ohm (~200-500W) is required if you use VFD braking: http://www.ebay.com/itm/231133634736?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT (this one is rated at 120W unmounted, 500W if mounted to a metal heat sink (so mount it on the cabinet or metal surface, run the wires to the designated VFD terminals).

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SemiHidden="false"    UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false"    UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/>  </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style>  /* Style Definitions */  table.MsoNormalTable     {mso-style-name:"Table Normal";     mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;     mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;     mso-style-noshow:yes;     mso-style-priority:99;     mso-style-qformat:yes;     mso-style-parent:"";     mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;     mso-para-margin-top:0in;     mso-para-margin-right:0in;     mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt;     mso-para-margin-left:0in;     line-height:115%;     mso-pagination:widow-orphan;     font-size:11.0pt;     font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";     mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;  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Power cable between VFD and motor (shielded 14G 3 wire + ground), shield is grounded at the VFD: http://www.ebay.com/itm/56-Helukabe...779?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e97f06bfb

Relay 4P, 24VDC: http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...81_-z-_782_-z-_783_-z-_784_Series)/784-4C-24D

Relay 4P mount: http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...ts_-a-_Accessories/Relay_Sockets/784-4C-SKT-1

Crimp connectors, 22G for control wire at VFD:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/100Pcs-22-A...688?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a48f94b28

Diodes, 1N4004 (just about any diode 1N4001-1N4008). http://www.ebay.com/itm/100x-1N4004...097?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f433b8631

Control cabling between the VFD and terminal block in the control cabinet, you can use any 22-26G bundled wiring. I prefer 22G as it is less fragile, and use the 22G crimp connectors at the VFD end (either crimp or solder to the control wires). The wiring between the speed pot and the VFD should use 3 or 4 wire shielded cable, ground the shield at the VFD. This reduces noise pick-up in the cable which can be an issue because of the VFD electrical noise.

You might also consider having QMT install the VFD, as I understand that is an option.
Mark


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## wrmiller (Jan 8, 2015)

The Leeson motor is being bought separate. The motor on the lathe is a single-phase. And I just sent an inquiry to Ray asking how much Matt would charge to install the motor and VFD. I didn't think of that, thanks. 

And thanks for all the help. I have already downloaded/printed the programming guide. Much appreciated.


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## zmotorsports (Jan 8, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I will be receiving my 1340GT later this month or so and thought I'd ask some questions of Mike (zmotorsports) and others that have knowledge of this stuff.
> 
> ...



Bill, a contactor is merely a relay that controls the load (large gauge wiring) by means of switching a control circuit (small gauge wiring).  This enables you to control high amperage loads via smaller amperage (read less expensive) wiring and switches.

You will need to feed the VFD from a 230-volt source, two hot legs and a ground from your breaker panel with 30-amp breaker will be sufficient.  I recommend a little extra measure of running those two hot wires through a two pole fused block and a disconnect.  You can use a large motor starter but that is really overkill, I merely used a double pole/single throw Square D brand ON/OFF switch to control power just before the VFD.  This also feeds my 240 VAC to 24 VAC step-down transformer that I retained from the original electrical box on the lathe to feed my light.  It is easy to remember to turn off that way because as soon as I turn my switch on to power the VFD, my light on the lathe comes on.  Great to help remind me to turn the switch off, if closing up the shop and the lathe light is still on it means I forgot to turn the switch off for the VFD.

The VFD will take the place of all of the switching of high amperage load and so therefore the contactors are no longer needed in the electrical panel.  You simply will run 4 high amperage wires, 3 for the current carrying and one for the ground (usually ground will be green) from the output of the VFD to the motor.  DO NOT, and I repeat, DO NOT go the 3phase from the VFD directly to the plug or wiring that the lathe will come with, it must be connected directly to the motor.  Once you do that I recommend you fire up the VFD and run the motor via the touchscreen/pad on the VFD just to make certain everything thus far is connected properly and the motor runs.  Mark mentioned using 12 gauge wiring, which is fine for the amperage, I used 10-gauge as I had some left over from my 10k pound two-post lift installation.  The connections will be as follows from the VFD to the motor, 3 current carrying wires and a ground from your NEMA enclosure to the motor housing.  I would also include a ground from your breaker panel to the NEMA enclosure just to be safe.   

From the VFD to the control portion of the lathe I did as Mark mentioned above, I used the 24 volt feed from the VFD to run through all of my controls.  This is my directional/rotary switch as well as E-stop and JOG features.  The use of 22-gauge wiring is fine.  I used a 22-gauge/10-conductor loom to go from the VFD to the lathe control panel for all of this.

Once the wiring is completed as per my schematic which then you have to go into the VFD by means of the programming section in the manual and tell the VFD what signals to look for and what to do when the signals are seen.  Such as JOG, forward or reverse.  Keep in mind you don't have to run the JOG function like I did, I merely wanted this function but it is not necessary.  Nice to have but not necessary.

I hope that helps and didn't confuse you.  Mark, aka mksj, did a fantastic write-up on his installation which is probably better than mine.  I would read through it very thoroughly.


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## wrmiller (Jan 8, 2015)

As you said, just another name for a control relay. Got it, thanks.  

I will read and re-read yours and Mark's install notes.




zmotorsports said:


> Bill, a contactor is merely a relay that controls the load (large gauge wiring) by means of switching a control circuit (small gauge wiring).  This enables you to control high amperage loads via smaller amperage (read less expensive) wiring and switches.


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## GA Gyro (Jan 8, 2015)

THX for starting this thread: I have a 1340GT coming in this January batch, mine will have the factory 3PH motor on it.  

I plan to get the VFD from Matt, may give him a call and ask him how he mounts it.  
OTOH: may do a custom install... have not decided yet.  

I have a tookbox I found at Harbor Freight (damaged slightly, got it for a good price):

http://www.harborfreight.com/tool-s...4-lb-capacity-glossy-red-tool-cart-61427.html

I removed the box from the cart and plan to mount it below the chip pan.  If I mount the box to the right, this will leave about 9-10" of free space between the two stand cabinets and the 'hanging' toolbox.  Was thinking to find an elec box to put down there...
(Need to sand the gloss off the front of the red toolbox and paint it Rustoleum 'royal blue'... the color I have more or less adopted to use with (and eventually repaint the blue part) my PM machines.  

Will be watching this thread... THX again for starting it!

John


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## mksj (Jan 8, 2015)

One correction to the above information, the WJ200-015S takes a 50 Ohm brake resistor (the 100 ohm mentioned was for a smaller installation). I installed a 500W version. Since the duty cycle for the lathe braking is very low, you do not need a huge resistor for braking.  Something along the lines of this http://www.ebay.com/itm/500W-50ohm-...325?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35ce35a6ed , the price seems to vary, I paid $26.

There are other vendors and various types of open resistors (tubular wound types) like Surplus Sales of Nebraska. http://www.surplussales.com/Resistors/WireWound/WW50-699.html , something along the lines of the (RWM) 26-136-50R 400W Milwaukee 26-136 Ribonwound, 1-5/8" x 8-1/2" if you mount it in your electrical  cabinet. There is around 360+ volts going to the resistor terminals, so be very careful when installing these type of resistors.


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## wrmiller (Jan 8, 2015)

OK, ignorant question number one: What is a braking resistor and why do I need it? Is it used to act as a load for the back EMF the motor produces as it spins down un-powered?


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## JimDawson (Jan 8, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> OK, ignorant question number one: What is a braking resistor and why do I need it? Is it used to act as a load for the back EMF the motor produces as it spins down un-powered?




Your're close, it adsorbs the back EMF while the motor spins down under controlled deceleration.  It allows the motor to decel faster under VFD control.  It keeps the DC buss from going over voltage.  Unpowered, there is no back EMF, or at least very little.


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## wrmiller (Jan 9, 2015)

JimDawson said:


> Your're close, it adsorbs the back EMF while the motor spins down under controlled deceleration.  It allows the motor to decel faster under VFD control.  It keeps the DC buss from going over voltage.  Unpowered, there is no back EMF, or at least very little.



Thanks Jim. It was just a SWAG (scientific wild-arsed guess) as we use the spindle's back EMF in disk drives to power shut-down circuits and get the data to a safe place in an emergency. So the combo of the resistor and VFD actually 'brake' the spindle and bring it to a stop sooner? Poor mans foot brake?


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## zmotorsports (Jan 9, 2015)

The VFD will actually do a minor amount of braking as coming to a stop by setting the program to do such without a braking resistor. I set mine to decel brake and kept creeping up on the time until it over ramped the current and tripped, then backed it off a bit and it works great. I could install a braking resistor and had thought about it at first but in all honesty it does fine without the braking resistor. Once I turn the rotary switch off, back to the neutral position, the spindle only turns a few revolutions before coming to a stop. It's not like it coasts for four or five seconds.

If you want it to stop faster then by all means you will need to install a braking resistor but there is some controlled deceleration in the VFD alone.

Maybe I look at things differently but the harsher the stops/starts the more wear there will be on the gears overall. I watch these videos and see people stomping on their brakes just to stop the machine during a normal process and have to wonder how much long term wear they are creating. Chances are maybe not enough to measure but then what if there is. I can see using the lathe brake in an emergency situation, doubtful you would be able to react fast enough, but let's say you do, I can see that. I just don't know why for normal machining operations it is needed, same with a braking resistor, probably overkill.

Again, just my opinion, not wanting to start a heated debate over if you need a braking resistor or not. Just my two cents.


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## zmotorsports (Jan 9, 2015)

I know you mentioned foot brake Bill, so I just thought I would again throw my two cents worth in, if it's worth that much.

Foot brakes are good for the reason they give people a sense of safety although it could be a false sense of safety as it is highly unlikely an operator could get to the foot brake before getting caught up in a lathe spindle spinning at several hundred RPM.  Once you get caught and sucked in it all happens before you even realize you had an accident.

That said even if pulled in, your body will be thrown off balance and the operator may not be able to stand on one leg to stomp on the brake with the other.  Again, these are merely opinions, not based on personal experience nor witnessing of said accidents.

I have been around moving machinery my entire life, between being raised on a farm, working on and around farm equipment and then for the past 26+ years in the industrial maintenance career.  We have foot brakes on some of our equipment in the plant and thank God we don't have many industrial accidents but I have never in that 26+ years seen someone get to the foot switch/brake when they themselves have been involved in an accident.  The majority of the time(s) it has been a second person hitting an E-Stop that kills the machinery.

All that said, take the foot brake for emergency stopping out of the equation and let's say the operator want to use it for threading or boring up to a shoulder.  This is where I see the foot brakes used many times in videos and such.  This is definitely a viable option but I think back to my post above about the gears of the machine, again, I may be overthinking the wear aspect, but personally I feel there are other methods of threading or boring up to a shoulder that rely more on planning and execution of a smooth and consistant disengagement of the carriage vs. stomping on the brake.

Again, this is merely my own opinion and I am not trying to offend anyone who feels differently or uses the foot brake for one of the processes that I mentioned above.  Just my experience.


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## zmotorsports (Jan 9, 2015)

Also, I don't mean to beat a dead horse but lathe brakes are also not all created equal.  While many are mechanically linked to the spindle to stop rotation, there are some that merely drop out the contactor (electrical brake) and therefore do nothing more than the E-stop or switching the rotary switch to neutral.


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## wrmiller (Jan 9, 2015)

I learned pistolsmithing in my friend's shop where I worked on a rather large Japanese 16x40 lathe (nice lathe too!). And for the most part, the only time I used the footbrake on that lathe was when I was blind ID threading at 40 tpi on compensators. What a way to learn threading eh? :whiteflag:

But with that big set-tru 3 jaw he had on there it would take quite a while for the spindle to stop rotating once power was removed, and even longer when you're working at high (>1600 rpm), so we both tended to lightly press the foot brake just to get things stopped a little quicker so we could take the next measurement. Especially when working to a tight deadline on a customers custom pistol.  

My usage of the term footbrake was just relating it to the controlled braking of the VFD. If the spindle will stop in 4-5 revolutions I'm good with that.


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## zmotorsports (Jan 9, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> I learned pistolsmithing in my friend's shop where I worked on a rather large Japanese 16x40 lathe (nice lathe too!). And for the most part, the only time I used the footbrake on that lathe was when I was blind ID threading at 40 tpi on compensators. What a way to learn threading eh? :whiteflag:
> 
> But with that big set-tru 3 jaw he had on there it would take quite a while for the spindle to stop rotating once power was removed, and even longer when you're working at high (>1600 rpm), so we both tended to lightly press the foot brake just to get things stopped a little quicker so we could take the next measurement. Especially when working to a tight deadline on a customers custom pistol.
> 
> My usage of the term footbrake was just relating it to the controlled braking of the VFD. If the spindle will stop in 4-5 revolutions I'm good with that.



Matt made the comment to me when I was talking to him about the 1340GT that he had many people decide NOT to purchase that particular lathe merely based on the fact that it did not have a foot brake. I found that sad because it is such a nice machine and the foot brake was not even on the radar for me. I am by no means a "machinist" but I cut my teeth on an older Taiwanese lathe with no footbrake and never really had a need for one. Personally, I am goint to eventually build a toolbox under the center section of mine and remove that filler panel in there as soon as I find time. So a foot brake would impede my ability to do that.

When threading in a blind hole, threading to a shoulder or boring to a shoulder I use my soft stop and merely release the feed when I get to a predermined reading. It is quick, simple and with the nice smooth controls on this lathe it is very easy to hit the target dead on.

I actually did a youtube video a while back demonstrating just how easy and repeatable it is to bore up to a shoulder on the 1340GT. If you get a chance you should check it out. It will also show how smooth and quiet the lathe is.


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## mksj (Jan 9, 2015)

There is probably much more torque/load placed on the gear train from starting a non-VFD motor, then braking. You can always switch in or out the electronic brake or change the VFD parameters as needed, and you can adjust the braking rate to be more linear or S curve. Without the resistor, I had no problems with stopping the lathe in 1-2 seconds, but as the speed increases beyond 800-1000 RPM, there is just to much momentum in the system. I was getting over voltage errors. This will also be affected by the chuck weight and what your milling. Agree with Mike, that in an emergency, by the time you get to the foot brake it is probably too late. That being said, the electronic braking is smooth and quick with a VFD/resistor, and the resistor is a small cost. It also may move some of the heat from regenerative braking away from the VFD to the resistor. Either way, you will have a great set-up. Let us know on what you find with the QMT VFD install, and what they recommend.


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## wrmiller (Jan 9, 2015)

Never had the time to learn how to use a soft or hard stop, or at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it. 

I DID get really good at disengaging at the same value on a 2" travel DI though...  :lmao:

I don't want a lathe with a foot brake as that means it's larger physically than I want to deal with. The fact that the VFD will assist on ramping down the spindle is just icing on the cake for me. Heck, these smaller 'hobby' lathes aren't spinning that much mass anyway. 

Thanks again guys, this is all really good stuff.





zmotorsports said:


> Matt made the comment to me when I was talking to him about the 1340GT that he had many people decide NOT to purchase that particular lathe merely based on the fact that it did not have a foot brake. I found that sad because it is such a nice machine and the foot brake was not even on the radar for me. I am by no means a "machinist" but I cut my teeth on an older Taiwanese lathe with no footbrake and never really had a need for one. Personally, I am goint to eventually build a toolbox under the center section of mine and remove that filler panel in there as soon as I find time. So a foot brake would impede my ability to do that.
> 
> When threading in a blind hole, threading to a shoulder or boring to a shoulder I use my soft stop and merely release the feed when I get to a predermined reading. It is quick, simple and with the nice smooth controls on this lathe it is very easy to hit the target dead on.
> 
> I actually did a youtube video a while back demonstrating just how easy and repeatable it is to bore up to a shoulder on the 1340GT. If you get a chance you should check it out. It will also show how smooth and quiet the lathe is.


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## zmotorsports (Jan 9, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Never had the time to learn how to use a soft or hard stop, or at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
> 
> I DID get really good at disengaging at the same value on a 2" travel DI though... :lmao:
> 
> ...




Just FYI, what I refer to a soft stop IS a dial indicator that you run the carriage up to a set reading. My lathe came with a hard stop/carriage stop but I don't use it much. I prefer to use a soft stop and use it I do, a lot. I don't know what other people call it but that's what I call it anyways.

I have a writeup on my lathe thread where I show how I fabricated mine and use it. I also have a youtube video as I have had a lot of people inquire about it.

On a side note, I wouldn't necessarily call the 13"x40" lathe a smaller hobby lathe. They are more of an intermediate size. Heck, our 12"x36" in our maintenance shop at work has done pretty much everything we need to do on it. There have been a few things we have had to farm out over the years but the majority of work we do is on that lathe. We used to have an old 16"x60" but it rarely got used because most of the mechanics liked the Norton gearbox on the 12"x36", so when the old 16x60 took a crap we never replaced it. Haven't really missed it.


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## wrmiller (Jan 9, 2015)

Didn't mean to offend, that was strictly tongue-in-cheek on my part.

Someone here on the board once said 'any lathe with a 14" or smaller swing is basically a hobby lathe'. While I bristled, I kept my mouth shut about it as it was one of the elders here.

I just intended it to cause a chuckle or two... I'll restrain myself from here on.


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## zmotorsports (Jan 9, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Didn't mean to offend, that was strictly tongue-in-cheek on my part.
> 
> Someone here on the board once said 'any lathe with a 14" or smaller swing is basically a hobby lathe'. While I bristled, I kept my mouth shut about it as it was one of the elders here.
> 
> I just intended it to cause a chuckle or two... I'll restrain myself from here on.



Nope, didn't offend.  I've got broad shoulders.  I just wanted to convey that a 13"x40" isn't exactly a "hobby" machine based on it's size.  Many toolroom professional lathes are smaller than that.


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## wrmiller (Jan 9, 2015)

Update: Talked to Ray and he says that Matt will do it no problem, but it will cause some delay to the shipment of my machine.

 I guess Matt used to process the machines on a first-come-first-serve basis but now that he has the factory installing DROs and stuff he processes those first to get them out the door, and then does any custom work. I told Ray that I was fine with that as long as we're talking weeks not months.


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## zmotorsports (Jan 9, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Update: Talked to Ray and he says that Matt will do it no problem, but it will cause some delay to the shipment of my machine.
> 
> I guess Matt used to process the machines on a first-come-first-serve basis but now that he has the factory installing DROs and stuff he processes those first to get them out the door, and then does any custom work. I told Ray that I was fine with that as long as we're talking weeks not months.



So Matt is installing the 3-phase motor, VFD and all the control wiring at no additional cost?

If so that is great because when I ordered my lathe and mill he told me that to have it show up ready to hook up to 220 VAC single phase it was $995.00 additional.  That is why I opted to do it myself and figured since I do this for a living I could probably figure it out.


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## wrmiller (Jan 9, 2015)

Oh no, he's charging me for the install. And Ray estimates it's going to delay shipping on my lathe a couple weeks. 

But...I'd rather pay a little extra (not as much as you said: sure that wasn't including hardware?) and get it done right. Don't want to risk letting the factory smoke out of my new toy before I get to play with it. )


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## GA Gyro (Jan 9, 2015)

THX to the folks who have contributed to this thread... it is a BIG help!  

Question if I may: When one uses the braking resistor on the Hitachi VFD... can one set it to a different brake rate normally, and a 'quick' brake rate when one hits the big red stop button?  Seems to me that would be a good compromise between regular hard stops, and the availability of a hard stop if one needed it.
Thoughts???

Just reading on the PM website:  I think there is a VS option from the factory... which is $995.  Not sure if that is Matt mounting a VFD and setting it up.  

Bill, you will have a PM.


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## zmotorsports (Jan 9, 2015)

GA said:


> THX to the folks who have contributed to this thread... it is a BIG help!
> 
> Question if I may: When one uses the braking resistor on the Hitachi VFD... can one set it to a different brake rate normally, and a 'quick' brake rate when one hits the big red stop button?  Seems to me that would be a good compromise between regular hard stops, and the availability of a hard stop if one needed it.
> Thoughts???
> ...



When I talked to Matt, the way I understood it was the variable speed option was a 3-phase motor installed at the factory and then Matt and/or his crew installing the VFD before shipping it to the customer.  I don't think it came from the Taiwanese factory wired up with VFD.  That is the way I understood it but didn't may that much attention as I was not interested in having Matt wire up the VFD. Someone correct me if that is incorrect.

Yes you can set up the VFD to have a resistor braking function AND an Emergency stop feature separately.  When you wire in the VFD and program it, when th power is removed from either forward or reverse you it will decelerate at the rate programmed in by the user.  There is a different terminal that you an wire the E-stop switch to so that when the VFD sees an input from the E-stop it brakes at that particular deceleration setting.


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## zmotorsports (Jan 9, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Oh no, he's charging me for the install. And Ray estimates it's going to delay shipping on my lathe a couple weeks.
> 
> But...I'd rather pay a little extra (not as much as you said: sure that wasn't including hardware?) and get it done right. Don't want to risk letting the factory smoke out of my new toy before I get to play with it. )



I was understanding the $995.00 cost was the VFD and the installation.  Again, correct me if I am mistaken, I didn't pay much attention because I wasn't interested in that option as I was just looking at a cost for the VFD to determine if I was going to get it from him or from one of my suppliers.  Matt kcked their butts on price on the VFD so I had him send me one.  It was funny the VFD showed up on my doorstep a week or so before my lathe did.


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## mksj (Jan 9, 2015)

When I inquired about the factory VFD option, it was a special order and installed by the factory. What I recall, it was completely different set up, most factory lathe VFD's have 2 or 3 speed ranges. Per the option sheet "Variable Speed Option (Factory Installed Only)". That being said, the WJ200 does a fine job, and you get to keep some pocket change. 

The WJ200 allows a wide number of programming options via it's input terminal configurations. It would be easy to have a second NO switch on the E-stop that engages a different braking algorithm via a spare programmed terminal.  You will need a braking resistor if you choose an aggressive braking time. Another option that I considered (especially when machining at high RPM) was to add a small toggle switch on the front panel to engage one of two braking algorithms; one short, the second longer (or a 2 step braking using the A093 command described on P 3-37, and the terminal symbol 2CH (2-stage accel./decel. commands) described on P 3-85 of the manual). I also use an end of travel braking switch which works like the E-Stop to prevent crashing into the chuck. I guess as I get older, I am not so quick with my hands (nor mind) so I build some machine assistance for my occasional stupidity. My point is that the VFD braking is a great plus, it is just how you want to implement it to suit your needs.


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## wrmiller (Jan 10, 2015)

zmotorsports said:


> I was understanding the $995.00 cost was the VFD and the installation.  Again, correct me if I am mistaken, I didn't pay much attention because I wasn't interested in that option as I was just looking at a cost for the VFD to determine if I was going to get it from him or from one of my suppliers.  Matt kcked their butts on price on the VFD so I had him send me one.  It was funny the VFD showed up on my doorstep a week or so before my lathe did.



Oh yea, that is the factory variable speed option. I remember that when I was originally pricing this lathe and the 935 with the variable option. It was going to cost me over 2k to put variable speed on both machines. Ouch. This way may not be a 'nice' as a factory installed VS, but it will work just fine and leave me with a little extra money in my pocket.


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## wrmiller (Jan 20, 2015)

Well apparently there was a miscommunication somewhere, as Matt told me in a email today that he doesn't do VFD installs and hasn't for some time now. Too time consuming. So...I'm back to looking at this thread and trying to figure out how to do this.

The good news is that Matt says the lathes are only a few days out now. Here we go!  )


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## GA Gyro (Jan 20, 2015)

Hey Bill...

I talked to Matt lat Friday... he kinda nixed doing the VFD for me also... same reason.
Was not gonna say anything... maybe ya'll had made a deal.

So both of us are gonna have to dust off our electrical & control wiring skills.
Since I am gonna remove the center panel between the two cabinets... I am thinking an elec box in that area also... Probably gonna have to wait until the lathe is here to figure it out.

THX for the heads up the lathe's are getting close to PA... I am ready to have the 'other' machine in my shop.


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## marcusp323 (Jan 21, 2015)

Just got an email from Nicole saying the machines will be in by Friday. Now the wait for setup & testing (fitting the DRO on mine too) plus the shipping all the way back across the country :impatient:

Meanwhile I'll call Matt & ask his price on another Hitachi VFD. Can get one for $313 online, but maybe he'll make me a swingin' deal. Can't hurt to try.
Anticipation time, for sure!


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## wrmiller (Jan 21, 2015)

"Dusting off" may be a bit of a misnomer, as I had to ask what a contactor is... 

I'll muddle through this somehow. With help from my online friends.  Lots of great info here, just need to figure out what I want to do and how much of this applies.

For example: Mark used 12G cable to the VFD and only 14G to the motor. 14G is smaller, right? I'm a bit confused on that. And it gets worse from there... :lmao:


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## zmotorsports (Jan 21, 2015)

marcusp323 said:


> Just got an email from Nicole saying the machines will be in by Friday. Now the wait for setup & testing (fitting the DRO on mine too) plus the shipping all the way back across the country :impatient:
> 
> Meanwhile I'll call Matt & ask his price on another Hitachi VFD. Can get one for $313 online, but maybe he'll make me a swingin' deal. Can't hurt to try.
> Anticipation time, for sure!



Sounds awesome. Getting closer at least.

I would definitely check with Matt about the VFD he can beat that price.  When I ordered mine from him the VFD actually showed up several days ahead of the lathe which allowed me to get it wired into the NEMA enclosure before the lathe's arrival.  Not a big deal, just one more little detail that I was able to get done before the lathe showed up.


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## GA Gyro (Jan 21, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> "Dusting off" may be a bit of a misnomer, as I had to ask what a contactor is...
> 
> I'll muddle through this somehow. With help from my online friends.  Lots of great info here, just need to figure out what I want to do and how much of this applies.
> 
> For example: *Mark used 12G cable to the VFD and only 14G to the motor. 14G is smaller, right? I'm a bit confused on that. And it gets worse from there... *:lmao:



I think I can help you with this one...

Wire gauge is related to amperage.  The more amps, the lower the gauge number.  
14GA = 15 A
12GA = 20 A
10 GA = 30 A
8 GA = 40 A
6 GA = 55 A This one is questionable...
etc.  

Given the same load; the actual amperage used by a 3PH motor will be lower than a single phase motor... three wires rather than two, and the motor is more efficient.  (Yeah, not a very techincal explanation).  
Thus the amps flowing to the same load; from the supply to the VFD, will be higher than the amps from the VFD to the motor.  

Now if we want to talk about protecting the wire with a circuit breaker... then perhaps 12 GA at all locations.  

Does anyone know if the VFD actually regulates the amps as well as the phase?  



The part I am gonna have issues with... is sorting out the programming of the VFD.  Reading all that stuff, my brain tends to scramble.
The wiring, if I stare at it and think about it (and doodle on a yellow pad)... it will make sense and come together.


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## JimDawson (Jan 21, 2015)

GA said:


> Does anyone know if the VFD actually regulates the amps as well as the phase?
> 
> The part I am gonna have issues with... is sorting out the programming of the VFD.  Reading all that stuff, my brain tends to scramble.
> The wiring, if I stare at it and think about it (and doodle on a yellow pad)... it will make sense and come together.




The VFD does regulate the current to some degree by regulating the voltage.  The VFD will protect it's self and the motor by current limiting if the case of an overload or other fault.

The programming is not too terrible, normally you only need to change a few settings to be up and running.  We can help you through it.


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## GA Gyro (Jan 21, 2015)

JimDawson said:


> The VFD does regulate the current to some degree by regulating the voltage.  The VFD will protect it's self and the motor by current limiting if the case of an overload or other fault.
> 
> *The programming is not too terrible, normally you only need to change a few settings to be up and running.  We can help you through it.*



THX, appreciate that!

I am starting to visualize the features I want to wire in and program... When I have that ready, will be time to start 'doodling' on paper.


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## mksj (Jan 21, 2015)

The motor nameplate amperage is 6.6A, the NEC 460 wiring guidance for 3 phase is as follows:




Unless you have long distance between your VFD and motor (not recommended) then 14G (3 wire + ground) is fine. The VFD regulates it's output and will shut down if it exceeds it's programmed limits.  Going from the VFD to your breaker box/outlet, 12G is rated to 20A (single phase), so would be OK for distances up to ~25', otherwise 10G. It is also recommended to fuse the VFD with a 30A cartridge or suitable breaker. Breakers are available with different overload characteristics, so either a C or D curve. Since the VFD's have soft starts, you have reduced inrush currents and less likely to trip the breaker. If you have a service disconnect switch before the VFD, a 25-30A rated switch should be fine. 

Mike outlined the connection schematic for the PM-1340GT. The easiest build is to remove the existing control board, strip out the contacters and relay (just keep the 24VAC transformer for the light) and keep the barrier strips. Note the current control connections. Mount a single 4 pole relay to the board, and connect per the schematic. I can make up a diagrammatic picture/relay connections and parts list if needed. Just be aware that when a relay is mounted to a socket base, that the socket terminals are in a different location then the relay itself.

Also you need to decide if you want to use the current front panel switches or upgrade them. Regarding the VFD, you need to decide where you want to locate it, and if your going to use an electrical cabinet and adding a breaker/service disconnect.

This is a great VFD enclosure at a very reasonable price: http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electr...s/LARGE-WHITE-ELECTRICAL-ENCLOSURE-1-4703.axd

You need to add a cooling fan, and some form of service disconnect. If you not familiar with mounting circuit breakers (I use DIN rail types), I would just use two 30A cartridge types in the enclosure (Like in Mike's enclosure). I recommend shielded wire between the VFD and the speed pot, and the VFD and the barrier strip. It is also recommended between the motor and the VFD, but not a deal breaker. The shields should be grounded at the VFD (not both ends), but you must run a separate ground wire to the motor. I use a single screw post in my VFD cabinet to tie all the grounds together.

Regarding programming the WJ200 VFD, I previously outlined some recommend parameters for this machine. This is a good starting point, I recommend programming in steps so you can figure out if you did something wrong.


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## wrmiller (Jan 21, 2015)

Honestly? I just want to replace the single phase motor with the three phase and wire it to the VFD. That is probably over simplistic, but you get the idea.

Right now, I'm not interested in replacing any of the front panel controls or added new ones. Maybe later. 

But if I'm hearing you correctly, you are saying replace all of the existing controls/contactors with that available on the VFD?


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## mksj (Jan 21, 2015)

You use all your current switches on the lathe. So there are two  possibilities to control the VFD commands. The first is to replace the  contactors and the power relay with a new single 4 pole latching relay  and wire per the schematic. The second option (and I need to give this  some further thought), is to use the current contactors (as your  For/Rev) relay commands to the VFD. All you would need to do is remove  the high voltage wiring to the two contactors. The Jog switch would need  to be rewired directly to the VFD inputs, so when it is pressed, it  would send the Jog signal and the forward command to the VFD (you need  to add diodes to the current switch or change it out to a dual NO contact switch). 

In either case, you would probably  want to use an external speed pot, this comes with the VFD or I have  some spares I can prewire and drop one in the mail (mount it in the coolant hole). I  could come up with a revised wiring diagram/directions if you want to  keep the contactors, but I couldn't test it on mine. I actually used the  old PM1340 control board and contactors in my bandsaw in a similar  arrangement (just no VFD), I wanted low voltage switches.


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## wrmiller (Jan 21, 2015)

I'm starting to think I should replace the contactors with the 4-pole relay in order to keep things as simple as possible.


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## GA Gyro (Jan 21, 2015)

THX for all the input... I am soaking up the ideas.  

Gonna re-read all the threads on VFD and the 1340... and make a list of things I want to do... then go back and figure out what parts I need and draw a circuit... I may need some help wiring a latching relay... I am drawing a blank on that... have done it before, just totally forgot how to.  

THX to all who are willing to share their expertise and experience.


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## mksj (Jan 21, 2015)

I believe the easiest option is  to strip the control board as previously mentioned and put in a 4 Pole relay for simplicity. Anyway you cut it, you need to rewire the front panel switches, it comes out very easy with 4 screws. Once you get things apart, I think it becomes clearer on what to do.Take some pictures and notes as to wiring numbers and location first.  I am in the middle of a new VFD build for someone else, but if I get some time in the next couple of days, I will put together a suggested parts list and wiring schematic. Drawing the wiring diagram is a bit tedious because it is done in Powerpoint. I still would give some thought to how/where you want to mount your VFD.


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## mksj (Jan 22, 2015)

Single 4 pole relay VFD schematic for PM1340GT using the Hitachi WJ200. Since I haven't actually  hardwired this schematic, I would appreciate if one of the moderators  or a second set of eyes could verify the connections. One can also add  other control switches and functions, such different braking rates, via a switch  that connects the control box terminal 3 to the additional VFD inputs  (4-7) and reprogramming their function. The PDF file may have better  resolution. Updated speed pot info on 1-23-15.


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## wrmiller (Jan 22, 2015)

I read previously that a 1k pot was used, but in your schematic you note a 10k. Are they interchangeable, i.e., the VFD is simply looking for a delta V (volts) from 0-10?


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## mksj (Jan 22, 2015)

The previous schematic was a generic copy adapted from on-line, I think they meant 10K as I have seen this in other VFD manuals. The WJ200 manual specifies 10K, I am using a 5K one and it woks OK (the 5K pot is the same value that Matt provided when he sent me my WJ200).  Yes it is a voltage divider, but I would not use a 1K, as it increases the current draw as you go to a lower value.


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## wrmiller (Jan 22, 2015)

mksj said:


> Yes it is a voltage divider, but I would not use a 1K, as it increases the current draw as you go to a lower value.



Good point. I'm sure there is a spec on how much this circuit can source current-wise in the VFD's manual, and it may not have protection circuits. Thanks.


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## zmotorsports (Jan 23, 2015)

mksj said:


> The previous schematic was a generic copy adapted from on-line, I think they meant 10K as I have seen this in other VFD manuals. The WJ200 manual specifies 10K, I am using a 5K one and it woks OK (the 5K pot is the same value that Matt provided when he sent me my WJ200). Yes it is a voltage divider, but I would not use a 1K, as it increases the current draw as you go to a lower value.



What is weard is two separate places in the manual the pot specs vary.  In the schematic it seems it mentioned 1k ohm and in the literature it mentioned a 10k ohm, or the other way around I can't remember.

I am using a 1k ohm and it works perfectly.  For a control circuit it isn't going to matter much as there is not much current to begin with.  The sensitivity of the pot is what would be affected by the ohm difference, it is merely adding or subtracting resistance.

Mike.


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## wrmiller (Jan 23, 2015)

Once I hear from Matt that the lathe is on it's way (just to make sure...) I'll start ordering the stuff in the first part of this thread like the relay, relay socket, diodes, cables, etc.. I'm also going to get a machtach to put on the spindle so I have true spindle rpm rather than a guess on my part. 

I'm wondering if I can replace the electrical box on the lathe with the NEMA one that is recommended also. This would make it easier to mount the VFD on the lathe and make it semi-portable for when I do move. :thinking:


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## mksj (Jan 23, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> I'm wondering if I can replace the electrical box on the lathe with the NEMA one that is recommended also. This would make it easier to mount the VFD on the lathe and make it semi-portable for when I do move. :thinking:



No real need to keep the current lathe control box if you mount a VFD cabinet to the lathe. Just be sure to not leave out the old mounting screws, and put a little sealant on them when you put them back in (the holes go through into the gear box). You may want to keep the old transformer or replace it with a PWM supply if you use the 24V light. If you mount a DIN rail in the new box, it makes it easy to mount relays, power supplies and breakers if you go that route. 

I stand corrected on the speed pot, input impedance is 10K, the WJ200 manual specifies a 1K or 2K potentiometer. Matt sent me a 5K, which works fine, use what you want. The bus input is rated to 100mA. It is one reason that I specified a LED power indicator light, between the relay and the LED your are drawing around 90mA.


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## wrmiller (Jan 23, 2015)

I was thinking of replacing the contactors with the 4-pole relay, and keeping the existing 24v transformer and switch hardware. Then just rewiring what needs changing. 

Should I get a DIN mount, or just move things over from the existing electrical box to the NEMA? (sorry for the ignorant questions, but I did warn everyone... :whistle


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## mksj (Jan 23, 2015)

Hey Bill,

There is many ways to do this. You will need to extend the For/Stop/Rev control cables if you mount everything in a new box. I think in total it is a cleaner build in a new single box (and is how factory installs are done), but depends on where the VFD is mounted. If you do a new enclosure on the back, make sure you leave enough wire that you can move the box in the future; if the lathe back is against a wall.  The DIN rail, just makes it easier if you were to add other DIN components, but keeping it simple, there are screw holes to mount the relay directly without a DIN rail. 

If I did not mount my VFD in the front cabinet, I would have put everything in a single larger control box on the back splash guard.

Mark


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## wrmiller (Jan 23, 2015)

mksj said:


> Hey Bill,
> 
> If I did not mount my VFD in the front cabinet, I would have put everything in a single larger control box on the back splash guard.
> 
> Mark



Thanks Mark,

Already thought of that if I can't get the larger box to fit where the existing one is. And the lathe will be positioned along a wall, but I will leave room behind it for access. 

Should I put the VFD's control panel in an accessible spot in case I need to manually change a variable or something?


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## mksj (Jan 23, 2015)

Once the VFD is programmed and running, it is ok to be shut it away in a ventilated electrical cabinet. You need access if you get an error code, or to reset the VFD/change a parameter. The lathe control box is very small, so either a new big enclosure or locate the VFD in a separate enclosure. I think it will all become clear when you get the machine delivered, I would wait to see how it is laid out, then figure a forward plan.


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## GA Gyro (Jan 23, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> I was thinking of replacing the contactors with the 4-pole relay, and keeping the existing 24v transformer and switch hardware. Then just rewiring what needs changing.
> 
> Should I get a DIN mount, or just move things over from the existing electrical box to the NEMA? (sorry for the ignorant questions, but I did warn everyone... :whistle



I appreciate you asking the questions... that way I can read the answers.

I plan to remove the panel between the cabinets and mount both a tool box and an elec box there... the VFD will be in that elec box.  
I am probably gonna have to wait until the lathe is here... to figure out where and how to do this.


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## wrmiller (Jan 23, 2015)

Yup, no sense in embarrassing both of us.  :roflmao:

I'm not going to rush this one just to 'make chips'. Going to get it here and think this through. Not going to do this twice. :makingdecision:





GA said:


> I appreciate you asking the questions... that way I can read the answers.
> 
> I plan to remove the panel between the cabinets and mount both a tool box and an elec box there... the VFD will be in that elec box.
> I am probably gonna have to wait until the lathe is here... to figure out where and how to do this.


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## GA Gyro (Jan 23, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Yup, no sense in embarrassing both of us.  :roflmao:
> 
> *I'm not going to rush this one just to 'make chips'. Going to get it here and think this through. Not going to do this twice.* :makingdecision:



I agree.  While I have a 'general idea' of how I want it to come out... I think you are right about getting the machine in the shop and looking (staring) at it until the obvious answers come to the surface of the little grey cells between one's ears.  

I think the tool box in the lower middle will work out well... just need to figure where everything will line up.


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## mike johns (Jan 23, 2015)

hope i get it clear in my head by the time i order my lathe,,thanks for taking the time to put it on the form,,good home work..


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## GA Gyro (Jan 26, 2015)

mike johns said:


> hope i get it clear in my head by the time i order my lathe,,thanks for taking the time to put it on the form,,good home work..



Hi Mike,

Curious there.... Where is your home city... been a resident of the Norcross area for almost 2 decades... have not heard of your area.

THX

John

PS--I may look at the helps area of this forum and try to start a N GA (or) GA HM group.  
Anyone want to be part of it?


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## GA Gyro (Jan 26, 2015)

Any of you guys who have a 1340 coming in this (Jan 2015) batch heard from Matt yet?


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## wrmiller (Jan 26, 2015)

Talked to Matt last Friday via email and he said the lathes should be here any day now. But then he said it will take a while to inspect the lathes and get them through customs?!?!

So I'm not sure if by "here" he means at his warehouse or at the docks. I'm confused.


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## GA Gyro (Jan 26, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Talked to Matt last Friday via email and he said the lathes should be here any day now. But then he said it will take a while to inspect the lathes and get them through customs?!?!
> 
> So I'm not sure if by "here" he means at his warehouse or at the docks. I'm confused.



Yeah, kinda waiting for something 'solid'.  

Last I Emailed with Matt... the lathes were supposed to be at PA over the weekend... however he did not say PA, rather 'here'... whatever that means.  

And yeah, I expect at least a week to prep before shipping... then 4-5 days shipping.

Oh well... it will be here when it gets here... Just though I would ask.


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## mike johns (Jan 26, 2015)

HI GA Gyro.. I live about 40 miles west of Brunswick Ga. I came back here after retiring from the USAF. I used to know a man into GYRO's his last name was Patton. Haven't seen him since I moved back home though..enjoyed your posts nice shop..


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## GA Gyro (Jan 26, 2015)

mike johns said:


> HI GA Gyro.. I live about 40 miles west of Brunswick Ga. I came back here after retiring from the USAF. I used to know a man into GYRO's his last name was Patton. Haven't seen him since I moved back home though..enjoyed your posts nice shop..



THX for the reply... there are lots of places in GA I have not heard of (yet).  

There will be a Saturday gathering of Gyro folks in Dublin GA, around St Patty's day... if you are free and want to see what they do.  I probably will drive down... if business does not keep my away.

THX for the reply.

John


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## wrmiller (Mar 16, 2015)

OK, as many know my lathe is here and I've started accumulating the parts necessary to convert this thing to a three-phase motor/VFD drive. I did not receive a pot from Matt, so as I have to go buy one I'd like to know what you guys are using. Simple carbon one-turn pot or fancy ten-turn? Wire wound? This thing will be connected via a shielded cable at least 5-6' in length. 

Also, who if anyone has kept their 24v transformer? This electrical box is very tiny and there isn't much room in it for much of anything. I'm thinking that if I want to keep the transformer for the light (the VFD can't power it) I have to run an additional 240v single phase line to the control box?

Or maybe I just sell the light I have and buy a 120v one...


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## zmotorsports (Mar 16, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> OK, as many know my lathe is here and I've started accumulating the parts necessary to convert this thing to a three-phase motor/VFD drive. I did not receive a pot from Matt, so as I have to go buy one I'd like to know what you guys are using. Simple carbon one-turn pot or fancy ten-turn? Wire wound? This thing will be connected via a shielded cable at least 5-6' in length.
> 
> Also, who if anyone has kept their 24v transformer? This electrical box is very tiny and there isn't much room in it for much of anything. I'm thinking that if I want to keep the transformer for the light (the VFD can't power it) I have to run an additional 240v single phase line to the control box?
> 
> Or maybe I just sell the light I have and buy a 120v one...



Bill, I kept my 24 VAC coil and powered it from a separate hot to power my light is all.  I just wanted to keep the transformer/light isolated away from my VFD as a precaution, may be a bit paranoid but it worked out well and was an easy install as far as that goes.

I use a single turn 1k ohm potentiometer that I picked up from a local electronics supply house, but I think McMaster Carr has them as well.

You are correct, that there is not much room in the electrical box but it is doable to fit everything in there, it is just a bit of a challenge to keep everything "tidy" looking.

Mike.


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## wrmiller (Mar 16, 2015)

Thanks Mike! After reading the manual a bit during lunch ( RTFM...   ) I saw that the VFD is configurable to sink an external 24v power source. I will check the current rating of the 24v transformer to be sure, but I'm thinking I may just run a single-phase line to the transformer and power both the light and the control logic. All I have to do is reference my external power source to terminal 'L'. I'm also going all in here and will be making my own control panel to replace the factory one. I went ahead and bought the metal 5k pot, the metal lighted jog button, and a metal E-stop button. I will also be adding a SPST switch to enable two-stage braking. Whew! Goin' high-dollar now...

Actually I just prefer metal to plastic is all. 

Oh, wait...did you say that transformer is AC, not DC? Oops. that means it's only usable for the light.


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## GA Gyro (Mar 16, 2015)

Well... I am into my wiring... have most of the high voltage done.  

I did my high voltage similar to Mike (Zmotorsports), I have a NEMA box on the side of the left PM cabinet.  I have a 240V line (4 cond, L1-L2-N-G) going from there to the lathe control box, for the TXFR and for 120V for various accessories.  
I need to sit down and figure out the Hitachi VFD... when I have that mastered... it will probably be a half day project to get the wiring finished.  
The stand is done, the lathe is wiped down (I think the guy applying the goo was paid by the bucket... LOL), all I need is to finish the wiring and do the alignment stuff.

And I have a couple of lathe projects waiting.  

BTW: I was at the local HD over the weekend... they have a 25 ft generator cable with 4 prong NEMA twist at both ends... rated for outdoor (bright orange)... on close out:
The 10GA was $18.95
The 12GA was $12.95
I cannot buy 25 ft of SJ wire for that... and I get the plug and outlet.  Pics to follow in a new thread... will explain.


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## wrmiller (Mar 16, 2015)

I've decided to forgo the 24v light and just rip everything out of the electrical box. I'll put the relay in there, leave the bus bar and source the control voltage from the VFD. Anyone want a 24v halogen light? I'll either buy a 120v one, or just get another Delta mag base light.


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## GA Gyro (Mar 16, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> I've decided to forgo the 24v light and just rip everything out of the electrical box. I'll put the relay in there, leave the bus bar and source the control voltage from the VFD. Anyone want a 24v halogen light? I'll either buy a 120v one, or just get another Delta mag base light.



I might be interested in the light... thinking to have two on the 935... tired of the shadows.  

Send me a PM with what you want for it and shipping costs to Norcross GA (30071), THX


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## mksj (Mar 17, 2015)

I would keep the light, get a 50-100w 24vdc PWM power supply off ePay to run it. They run off 100-240 vac. The stock transformer would not work with the Vfd source logic which is vdc. Would use a decent quality linear tracking 2-4w pot, either carbon film or wire wound. Also check Mouser Electronics, I can check if I have a spare and send when I get back from traveling.


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## wrmiller (Mar 18, 2015)

mksj said:


> I would keep the light, get a 50-100w 24vdc PWM power supply off ePay to run it. They run off 100-240 vac. The stock transformer would not work with the Vfd source logic which is vdc. Would use a decent quality linear tracking 2-4w pot, either carbon film or wire wound. Also check Mouser Electronics, I can check if I have a spare and send when I get back from traveling.



I basically bought everything listed on your schematic (lighted jog, 4k pot, etc.). Even bought a metal E-stop switch and the graduated plate for the pot. All from AutomationDirect. Got a shipping notice in about 3 hours. Not bad... 

Also on the buy list is a 14x12x8 enclosure from the same company. Just waiting on payday. I'm going to make a new control plate for the front of the lathe as well as a different oiling plate for the Norton. I'm liking John's idea of mounting the VFD on the side of the stand, but will have to put plugs/connectors on the box for the high voltage and control circuits so I can disconnect and move this thing a little easier.


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## tmarks11 (Mar 18, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Also on the buy list is a 14x12x8 enclosure from the same company. Just waiting on payday.



Platt Electrical has good prices on Hoffman NEMA 1 electrical cabinets that will work great for this.

https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...s/search.aspx?SectionID=2&vendors=Hoffman_111


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## mksj (Mar 18, 2015)

Bill,

I did a recent build with the VFD box on the end of the lathe in an electrical box, either the headstock or tailstock end works well. You can also put in a breaker disconnect or service disconnect, which I believe should be the default for any machine. On my lathe, I  use a long power cord 20A 25'  with a 20A plug so I can move it or disconnect it completely (generator cord with one end cut off).  It is a 4 prong male plug, as I use 120V for the DRO and possible future accessories.  All my control circuits are terminated in spade connected to screw terminals at the relay control box. All the wires and connections are numbered, so only would take a few minutes to unscrew everything. This was a recent build for another forum member, might be good for some ideas.  http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/acer-trump-1236-vfd-conversion.32910/

A lot of different ways to set it up. If you have any questions, let me know or PM me.

Mark


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## wrmiller (Mar 18, 2015)

Well Darn Mark, if I'd known you could put together a kit for me I'd have had you do that for me as well.  

One comment on that thread bothers me though, as I have a 8 1/4" Pratt three jaw set-tru. Is this thing going to throw faults because of it's mass?


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## mksj (Mar 18, 2015)

It was an interesting build project and something different. I did not feel comfortable in providing a untested circuit design/build recommendation and not being able to test it, although this went a bit beyond that and took a fair number of hours. Still, if a forum member gets into a bind with a VFD build, I could put something together for the cost of parts and getting it to you. But the stars need to align.

There is a lot of mass in the 8" chucks, about twice the weight of the 6" and greater momentum/weight at the outer diameter. So you may get a fault with a 1 second stop at higher RPMs, but he was using a Huanyang VFD which does not have the same capabilities and tuning parameters as the WJ200. I think with the braking resistor and the WJ200 parameters I outlined you should be good for at least 800 RPM. If you run into problems, options include: go to a 2 second braking, go to 2 stage braking (2 second total), or there are some tuning parameters to increase the over voltage trip point, change the sampling time for monitoring over voltage and change the braking curve . Lets see if it becomes an issue than we can see about possible changes. I have an 8" combination chuck (~56Lb with backing plate) that I need to turn a backing plate for, I will use this to test the braking and update you on any further programming parameters/changes when I get back mid April.


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## GA Gyro (Mar 19, 2015)

tmarks11 said:


> Platt Electrical has good prices on Hoffman NEMA 1 electrical cabinets that will work great for this.
> 
> https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...s/search.aspx?SectionID=2&vendors=Hoffman_111



Those look like good boxes... here is the one I used:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005T94MQU/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Perhaps a bit large, however it leaves lots of room for fa cooling fan, intake, master power switch, Hitachi VFD, and some terminal blocks.


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## mksj (Mar 19, 2015)

Electrical box needs to be at least 7" deep on the interior dimension, the Amazon one listed is not deep enough.


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## wrmiller (Mar 19, 2015)

The box I'm looking at is big enough to put a little 24v dc switcher in there.


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## GA Gyro (Mar 19, 2015)

mksj said:


> Electrical box needs to be at least 7" deep on the interior dimension, the Amazon one listed is not deep enough.
> 
> View attachment 97911



Yes, if one wants to mount the VFD on the back of the box... I am mounting the box with the long side vertical, and the VFD mounted sideways on one of the long sides.  It is not hard to see and work the buttons on the VFD... and IMO once it is set up... I probably will not play with it much.  

If I am wrong in this assumption.... would appreciate guidance...


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