# Controlling Hazardous Fume and Gases during Welding



## Uglydog (Mar 25, 2014)

Thought this might be interesting.
Please find the attached OSHA Fact Sheet distributed by Lincoln.


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## TOOLMASTER (Mar 26, 2014)

don't worry, your lungs will filter the air.


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## Ozwelder (Mar 26, 2014)

It's not often I get a bee in my bonnet,but now is one of those times.Hobby welders should take their OH &S seriously.Firstly ,thanks to Uglydog for the post.

A half smart flippant answer does nothing  to inform the original poster and others  about a subject where lack of knowledge of what you are dealing with, has potential to kill or harm you badly. 

I have been in the metalfab welding industry one way or another since 1969.There are so many metals that can harm you from inhaling over a long or short terms ,depending on the metal. Observe how many old timers there are in the welding industries. I got off the workshop floor 30 years back because I saw too many of my work mates incapacitated through welding and smoking.If you are in the industry,take a look around .You do not see many old guys because the industry is very physical and hard on the body
I still weld at home on a regular basis and take my precautions  very seriously.

Use some means to prevent inhaling the by products of welding whether its a filter ,a fume removal tube  or just a straight electric fan blowing the gases away from your breathing zone,from behind.

Galvanised metals, stainless steels and coated metals represent significant hazards to home welders. The zinc coating on pipe when welded turns to a gas which has killed asthmatics.
As a young welder working on gal pipe gates it caused  a metal flume fever.Look it up.It's not pleasant folks. Also look up maganism, a disease cause by the fumes from hydrogen controlled electrodes.

Lung disease of any variety is not a pleasant way to die.It takes a long time and is painful. Don't let it happen to you.

Keep safe! welders.

Ozwelder


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## Rbeckett (Mar 26, 2014)

As one of the old guy welders I have lung disease pretty bad.  When I was young and tough I didn't concern myself with safety because I was indestructible.  Found out the hard way that aint so.  Take the time to at least read the PDF above and take appropriate action or you WILL end up like me, and it aint purty when I have to call an ambulance to take my unable to breath butt to the hospital flopping and gasping for breath.  It is a grizzly disease and trust me you don't want what I got EVER.  Maybe one day I will post a "Day in the life of" segment so everybody can see what I have been reduced to...And the meds I am forced to take just to survive another day.

Bob


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## Rbeckett (Mar 26, 2014)

Warning!  This thread is becoming contentious and that will stop now.  If you do not have something to add to the content of this post please try to keep them to yourself.  If you are unable to I can remove them faster than You can write them and take appropriate action against the offender.  So lets get back on track and keep our comments positive or at least related.

Bob


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## The Landshark (Mar 26, 2014)

I'm fairly new to the site but i run my own welding company, mostly stainless tube for the drinks industry,
one article which i make all my guys read is this one, http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm 
Its about the dangers of tetrachloroethylene and other chlorinated hydrocarbons, sobering stuff, it's probably been posted before, if so then thats fine but if you havent read it then have a quick look, it might save you a lot of grief.


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## John Hasler (Mar 26, 2014)

The Landshark said:


> I'm fairly new to the site but i run my own welding company, mostly stainless tube for the drinks industry,
> one article which i make all my guys read is this one, http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm
> Its about the dangers of toluene and other chlorinated hydrocarbons, sobering stuff, it's probably been posted before, if so then thats fine but if you havent read it then have a quick look, it might save you a lot of grief.



Toluene is not chlorinated.  It's an aromatic hydrocarbon:  methylbenzene.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene


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## The Landshark (Mar 26, 2014)

John Hasler said:


> Toluene is not chlorinated.  It's an aromatic hydrocarbon:  methylbenzene.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene



I stand corrected, too late at night to remember chemical names right, tetrachloroethylene is the one, not toluene, ill edit my post, my apologies.


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## HMF (Mar 26, 2014)

Fellas, 

Safety is the issue in this thread and it is a very important issue on our forum. Just because some people compromise their safety doesn't mean we should.

Messages shouldn't be posted in all caps- it's considered shouting and rude. Likewise, there is no need to refer to someone as "ignorant" or throw a fit because you disagree with them. We don't do that on here. We treat each other with respect, even when we disagree. There is no other way to run a forum that has a broad participant base like ours.

Please... be courteous to one another.


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## Terrywerm (Mar 27, 2014)

I also want to thank Daryl for starting this thread, as safety needs to be foremost in our minds when working the shop, whether it is for work or for fun. 

Thanks also to Ozwelder, Bob Beckett, The Landshark and John Hasler for speaking up on this important topic. We cannot take our safety or health for granted - ever!


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## ranch23 (Mar 27, 2014)

Last year I welded some used oilfield pipe, made me pretty sick. The Pulmonoligist  reports I have lost 40% of my lung capacity. It may be permanent. From firsthand experience, please work safe.


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## TOOLMASTER (Mar 27, 2014)

i have a filter  outside on the wall next to my welding table that couples to my mask via teflon hose. i get clean air from outside.  then have a suction vent to take out any smoke.. i never smell a thing unless my neighbor is BBQing...then I just get hungry.


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## HMF (Mar 27, 2014)

I worked my way through college making HO model train kits. I did all the casting myself both polyester resin and tin-lead-antimony centrifugal spin casting. Like a dope, I operated the melting pot (furnace) with no respirator. The fumes  from the tin-lead-antimony combination, which were colorless and virtually odorless, gave me permanent intestinal problems. Now I know the effects that metal fumes can have.


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## ranch23 (Mar 27, 2014)

)Now I'm going to think about barbecue every time I weld.


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## TOOLMASTER (Mar 27, 2014)

grab some hot aluminum and you'll be the bbq...
i've had so many guys grab aluminum things i've welded..."we'll it wasn't red"


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## Terrywerm (Mar 27, 2014)

Three rules of the welding shop:
1. Never look at the pretty blue light.
2. Never touch red metal.
3. Assume all metal is red.

There could be more, but those three seem to cover the worst of it.


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## John Hasler (Mar 27, 2014)

terrywerm said:


> Three rules of the welding shop:
> 1. Never look at the pretty blue light.
> 2. Never touch red metal.
> 3. Assume all metal is red.
> ...



4. Never breathe the pretty smoke (or the ugly stuff either).


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## TOOLMASTER (Mar 27, 2014)

Bend the end of the filler rod. saves from pokin your eye out


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## MikeWi (Mar 27, 2014)

TOOLMASTER said:


> Bend the end of the filler rod. saves from pokin your eye out


you know, that's so obvious that it never occurred to me!

So, for those of you that do vent, what do you use?


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## John Hasler (Mar 27, 2014)

MikeWi said:


> you know, that's so obvious that it never occurred to me!
> 
> So, for those of you that do vent, what do you use?



I just work outside.  Not too convenient this time of year,  but my shop is small and I don't weld that much anyway (and when I do it's often stuff like loader arms that wouldn't fit inside).  I do do small-scale brazing on things like bandsaw blades inside.  For that I don't worry about fumes.


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## Smudgemo (Mar 27, 2014)

The Landshark said:


> I'm fairly new to the site but i run my own welding company, mostly stainless tube for the drinks industry,
> one article which i make all my guys read is this one, http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm
> Its about the dangers of tetrachloroethylene and other chlorinated hydrocarbons, sobering stuff, it's probably been posted before, if so then thats fine but if you havent read it then have a quick look, it might save you a lot of grief.



I'm glad other people have seen this and passed it along.  So sad to be so preventable (in hindsight.)

This is another good thread about respirators related mostly to bike building, but #16 is especially informative about protection in general.


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## ranch23 (Mar 27, 2014)

TOOLMASTER said:


> grab some hot aluminum and you'll be the bbq...
> i've had so many guys grab aluminum things i've welded..."we'll it wasn't red"



Reminds me of the story in Brownells Gunsmith Kinks. The local know-it-all goes into the gunsmith shop and picks up a smoking hot freshly welded bolt knob. Puts it down 647 times faster than he picked it up, what's the matter asked the 'smith, hot? No, he replies, just doesn't take me long to look at a bolt job!


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## Uglydog (Mar 27, 2014)

TOOLMASTER said:


> i have a filter  outside on the wall next to my welding table that couples to my mask via teflon hose. i get clean air from outside.  then have a suction vent to take out any smoke.. i never smell a thing unless my neighbor is BBQing...then I just get hungry.



Toolmaster:
Do you have any pics available?

Daryl
MN


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## chuckorlando (Mar 27, 2014)

I do alot of holding my breath if I cant be out the way of fumes.


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## Cheeseking (Mar 27, 2014)

About bending end of filler rod. Agreed!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cheeseking (Mar 27, 2014)

Hope I don't sidetrack here but related to welding safety.  Im using one of the infamous HF auto darkening helmets to do occasional TIG welding.   I was told the filter glass protects regardless of whether or not its in the "darkened" state.    Hmmmm doesnt make sense but anyone have a credible source to either confirm or debunk this????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ray C (Mar 27, 2014)

Cheeseking said:


> Hope I don't sidetrack here but related to welding safety.  Im using one of the infamous HF auto darkening helmets to do occasional TIG welding.   I was told the filter glass protects regardless of whether or not its in the "darkened" state.    Hmmmm doesnt make sense but anyone have a credible source to either confirm or debunk this????
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Here's a big "Debunk" from me.   There are two basic models of HF helmet.  The Blue Flame is the better one and can be used for DC TIG welding.  There's a cheaper one which cannot be used for DC TIG welding because, DC is a continuous bright light with no flicker.  It's the flicker from AC that constantly triggers the lens to remain dark.  I grabbed the wrong helmet one day -and boy, what a surprise.  It was too brief to be considered an official "flash" but, it was close and I saw spots for a minute or two.

Ray


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## Walltoddj (Mar 27, 2014)

I have both with and without flames an have yet to have a problem. I check to see if it's charged by looking at my shop light yes it will set it dark. Now I did have one go bad so it was trashed that is why I have two just for back up. I've got four of the old style but with my eye sight and flipping the helmet down I like the instant better.

Todd


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## Ray C (Mar 27, 2014)

Walltoddj said:


> I have both with and without flames an have yet to have a problem. I check to see if it's charged by looking at my shop light yes it will set it dark. Now I did have one go bad so it was trashed that is why I have two just for back up. I've got four of the old style but with my eye sight and flipping the helmet down I like the instant better.
> 
> Todd



If you're doing stick welding (even DC) the cheaper one will do fine because the splatter flickers enough to keep the lens dark.  DC TIG is pure light with virtually no flicker.  If you look at the instruction manual on that cheaper unit, it says "Not for TIG welding".  The Blue Flame works and does not have any use-case restrictions in the instruction manual.


Ray


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## TOOLMASTER (Mar 27, 2014)

i will only use the big view lincoln helmet auto....all the others i have tried have been too slow no matter what settings...you add up those milliseconds of flash and you'll have some tan eyeballs


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## chuckorlando (Mar 27, 2014)

I went about a month with bad spots in my vision from one of them helmets not darkening. So I would say no, it wont help if it aint dark.

I was getting about a year from one of them then buy another. My 4yr old still uses one. I love my Miller helmet. Man it is just so much better feeling and working. So soft AHAHAHAHAHA





Cheeseking said:


> Hope I don't sidetrack here but related to welding safety.  Im using one of the infamous HF auto darkening helmets to do occasional TIG welding.   I was told the filter glass protects regardless of whether or not its in the "darkened" state.    Hmmmm doesnt make sense but anyone have a credible source to either confirm or debunk this????
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## churchjw (Mar 27, 2014)

Thanks Ray for posting about the helmet.  I have the blue one just by accident.  Did not know the difference.   The other question is about something that was posted earlier.  What is the specific danger is there in TIG with stainless?  I know in general fums are bad but is there something specific about stainless?  

Jeff


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## Walltoddj (Mar 27, 2014)

Ray just so you understand I bought the $200 Hobart it lasted about a year and died. I've done DC Tig, Mig, and Stick with HF helmets and I have only had the one problem the helmet quit. That is why I always check the helmet before I start welding my fluorescent light sets it off.  


Todd


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## Ray C (Mar 27, 2014)

churchjw said:


> Thanks Ray for posting about the helmet.  I have the blue one just by accident.  Did not know the difference.   The other question is about something that was posted earlier.  What is the specific danger is there in TIG with stainless?  I know in general fums are bad but is there something specific about stainless?
> 
> Jeff



Stainless has very high chrome content.  Small amounts of chrome are needed by the body (same as cobalt and iron) but, the amount you get by ingesting weld fumes is thousands of times more than what you need.  A brief exposure that causes symptoms is considered an acute overdose that will pass in brief time.  When metals enter the bloodstream, the body processes them the same as it would calcium and much of the excess gets stored in your bones and released slowly.  This is considered chronic exposure and lasts a long time -and during that long time, the metals damage nerve tissues.  Same thing with lead overexposure.  It causes nerve damage and brain tissue damage.  Such overexposure is treated with chelation therapy which is an induced medication that kicks your renal system (kidneys) into high gear.  You'll be given IV fluid with vitamins to keep you hydrated while you urinate nearly constantly.  This helps flush things out rapidly.  Before the days of renal stimulants, they'd put you in a steam room, make you drink all you can and sweat it out.  Need to watch that though as water intoxication will happen when you drink more than a couple quarts of water in a short period of time...

Ray


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## Ray C (Mar 27, 2014)

Walltoddj said:


> Ray just so you understand I bought the $200 Hobart it lasted about a year and died. I've done DC Tig, Mig, and Stick with HF helmets and I have only had the one problem the helmet quit. That is why I always check the helmet before I start welding my fluorescent light sets it off.
> 
> 
> Todd



Todd,

It's good that you brought it up.  These are serious matters.

Yeah, I have both the Blue flame and the all-black (cheaper one).  I used them interchangeably for a long time w/o a problem but one day, I got semi-flashed with the black one.  I figured it was shot so I tested it with a sparker and it was working fine.  Went back to the TIG and bingo, it was acting up again.  WTH???  It occurred to me I was TIGging at low amps on a tiny piece of carbon metal.  When I TIG, it's usually aluminum which is always AC and that helmet never failed me.  I put 2+2 together and realized it can't trigger on just bright light.  It needs a flicker.  Old too soon, smart too late... I read the label inside the helmet and it says "Not for TIG".  The Blue Flame says OK for use on any arc process.

We live, we learn...  Fortunately, after the first semi-flash, I was being careful and not training my eyes on the arc as I carefully experimented...

Ray


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## TOOLMASTER (Mar 27, 2014)

nickel poisoning






churchjw said:


> Thanks Ray for posting about the helmet.  I have the blue one just by accident.  Did not know the difference.   The other question is about something that was posted earlier.  What is the specific danger is there in TIG with stainless?  I know in general fums are bad but is there something specific about stainless?
> 
> Jeff



- - - Updated - - -



Uglydog said:


> Toolmaster:
> Do you have any pics available?
> 
> Daryl
> MN



hose connects to line outside to a filter..mostly to keep bugs out


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## sniggler (Mar 28, 2014)

This is a great thread on a serious and personal topic. As a field welder (ironworker) in construction i have had training on safety up to the eye balls and ultimately it pays off because you learn how to protect yourself and how to recognize hazards.

Welding outside in the open with a breeze you can use your own judgement as to when to put on a respirator for welding and torch operations. For any long term heavy welding a respirator is a must. For any material with paint or contaminates a respirator is a must. We deal with renovations that have old lead painted iron this requires special measures. The main ways lead get into the body are fumes from hot work (welding and torch work), dust from grinding and you going hand to mouth, its on your cloths you bring it home to your family *it is really bad for your kids*.

At work safety officers will  worry about my fall protection all the time but watch me weld in a cloud of smoke with no protection oblivious to the hazard.

I say this is a personal topic because no one can protect you against yourself.

of coarse when you know the hazards of fumes from hot work and you are in a supervisory position the obligation to protect your workers shifts to you, it can be very hard to get some people to protect themselves.

everybody's got to eat their peck of dirt before they die, but try not to eat it all in one day or when you don't have to.

Bob


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## churchjw (Mar 28, 2014)

Thanks, I may have to rethink my welding set up.  I don't do a lot of welding my first gas bottle lasted over a year. But over time every little bit builds up. 

Jeff


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## roygpa (Mar 28, 2014)

Not exactly the same, but I use a 12 volt bilge blower on a 12 volt power supply to remove ABS fumes from the room when using my 3D printer. The blower is powerful, explosion proof being that it was designed to remove gasoline fumes, and didn't cost all that much. I connect a cheap aluminum foil type dryer vent hose to the blower and blow the fume right out of the window. My wife used to complain about the smell and now she doesn't. Bet it would work for welding fumes/ small paint booth too.


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## TOOLMASTER (Mar 28, 2014)

has anyone else noticed the smell of burning elastomer on steel tubing lately?


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## Walltoddj (Mar 28, 2014)

Ray C said:


> Todd,
> 
> It's good that you brought it up.  These are serious matters.
> 
> ...


"
Ray I guess you pushed a button so I went out and looked at both of my helmets and they both "For All Arc Welding Processes" Not for Laser Welding or Oxy welding.
I've enclosed pics of the helmets and the tags now I do know HF has multiple helmets for sales I may have just been lucky to get these two. Now if you read the manuals nether is any good for Tig Welding on page 4 it states Not For Tig Welding. Now looking at the Miller line they say Tig 20amp, the Elite Tig 5amp or do they mean it works at. I know we all have are favorites and likes but from what has been discussed there are not any good choices out there for the home shop.


                           :allgood: 

Todd


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