# We have come a long way - skills are improving.



## Janderso

Do you ever just stop and think about the progress we’ve made?
Looking back at older posts, some of the more talented members have always been amazing, but there are others that have really improved.

Do you ever just stop and look around? Wow, I wonder how much money I have in here 

This morning I made a simple part, it wasn’t very long ago where something like this would have been challenging.
Don’t misunderstand, I’m a genuine hack but I’m improving all the time.
Turning a piece of bar into a useable part is very enjoyable for me. I’m sure many of you know the feeling.

We are off to visit our grandchildren this morning. Things are looking up.


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## Aukai

I am the genuine master hacker here, so don't try to squeeze in on my action  The gurus continue to amaze me with their tolerance, patients, and teaching. You are correct, we have made notable progress, the big dogs here are doing a good job. Your project came out great


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## DavidR8

I’m a strong candidate for top hack. 
The simple state of my shop should be proof enough! 

Nice work Jeff!

I continue to be amazed by the generosity of all our members, sharing of time, experience, knowledge and tools. 
Thanks all!


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## Aukai

I have senility,,,,,,I mean seniority, or maybe both.


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## Shootymacshootface

I know just what you are saying Jeff. You and me started here within about a years time, and I can easily do things in my shop now that I wouldn't even have had a clue about a few years ago.


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## Janderso

Shootymacshootface said:


> I know just what you are saying Jeff. You and me started here within about a years time, and I can easily do things in my shop now that I wouldn't even have had a clue about a few years ago.


Yeah, my next two quests are the U2 Shars grinder and my 10” rotary table.
I’ve seen some remarkable work by machinists using these tools.
I struggle when I have to use my brain, but the rewards are best when I accomplish something sweet.
The end mill was before I touched it up. You’ll have to trust me, it came out really well. I used the end mill 5C rig on the Universal grinder.


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## tjb

Ditto, Jeff - and the rest of the respondents.

And special thanks on behalf of all us hacks to the many seasoned veterans who share their knowledge, advice, wise counsel and friendliness to the rest of us.  We're better people because of you.  Thank you.

Regards


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## Janderso

tjb said:


> Ditto, Jeff - and the rest of the respondents.
> 
> And special thanks on behalf of all us hacks to the many seasoned veterans who share their knowledge, advice, wise counsel and friendliness to the rest of us.  We're better people because of you.  Thank you.
> 
> Regards


Well said tjb


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## mikey

I look at this hobby as a journey. We all start at the same place and the guys who seem to know more are just further along the road, that's all. They have learned the lessons and made the same mistakes we are making; they just made those mistakes and learned those lessons before we came along. Fortunately for us, many of those advanced guys are willing to share those lessons so that we can avoid some of the mistakes we otherwise would have made, and that gets us down the road a little faster.

What I like about HM is that our seasoned guys are typically gentle with us less knowledgeable ones. Those that are arrogant or condescending don't last long here. 

It is also clear that while a hobby guy may be new or newish, he may also be an expert in his own field outside of this hobby. I've seen pilots, molecular geneticists, electrical and mechanical engineers, doctors, lawyers and folks from many other fields that are truly experts here on HM; this has taught me that arrogance has no place here. 

So yes, Jeff, we're making progress. We're all making progress and we're all learning. Pretty cool!


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## mmcmdl

Hacks ? Psssssssssssssssssst . You've never seen true hacks .  Come on into work with me one night . 

I'm following along closely with all and wish you all were available for employment . Like I said , you are amatuer hacks , we have some real journeyman hacks on hand at work !


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## Aukai

You mean how to do it the easiest, shortcut hacks? Not happening here....  I'm a not sure I'm doing it right hack, but sometimes it turns out anyway.


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## mmcmdl

Aukai said:


> You mean how to do it the easiest, shortcut hacks? Not happening here....  I'm a not sure I'm doing it right hack, but sometimes it turns out anyway.


Bottom line . Make it work !


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## AGCB97

I wouldn't call myself a HACK but I'll tell you my motto.

FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION


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## BGHansen

I suspect most of us are not trained machinist, myself included.  The Tool Makers in our tool room at work completed an apprenticeship of 8000 hrs., these are guys in their 60's.  Don't know what the requirement is now.  That's basically a 40 hr. a week, 50 week a year gig for 4 years to become a journeyman.  More time "in the saddle" than a 4-year college degree.

There's NO WAY any of us picking up our first lathe/mill off CL or eBay could expect to be at that level of competence.  I've puttered in my shop over the years at least 8000 hrs. but would never consider myself a machinist.  There are so many techniques I haven't learned and lots of mistakes from trying something new I haven't done yet.

I will say that I'm pretty happy with my general competence after 35 years of playing with this stuff.  I recently was making a skimming pass on my Bridgeport over a steel part and gouged the edge because I didn't lock the quill.  In the olden days, I'd have probably chucked the part.  I fired up the TIG welder, glued on the filler, sanded the part back close, and finished the job on the mill.

A Tool Maker at work once told me that the sign of a good machinist is how well he can hide his F-ups.  I still make plenty of mistakes and my ever-growing experience is making me better at hiding the inevitable.  The most important thing to me is staying safe (machine and person) when trying something new.  If you think it could be a problem, take precautions ahead of time so you and your machine stay safe.

Bruce


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## tjb

BGHansen said:


> I suspect most of us are not trained machinist, myself included.  The Tool Makers in our tool room at work completed an apprenticeship of 8000 hrs., these are guys in their 60's.  Don't know what the requirement is now.  That's basically a 40 hr. a week, 50 week a year gig for 4 years to become a journeyman.  More time "in the saddle" that a 4-year college degree.
> 
> There's NO WAY any of us picking up a lathe/mill off CL or eBay could expect to be at that level of competence.  I've puttered in my shop over the years at least 8000 hrs. but would never consider myself a machinist.  There are so many techniques I haven't learned and lots of mistakes from trying something new I haven't done yet.
> 
> I will say that I'm pretty happy with my general competence after 35 years of playing with this stuff.  I recently was making a skimming pass on my Bridgeport over a steel part and gouged the edge because I didn't lock the quill.  In the olden days, I'd have probably chucked the part.  I fired up the TIG welder, glued on the filler, sanded the part back close, and finished the job on the mill.
> 
> A Tool Maker at work once told me that the sign of a good machinist is how well he can hide his F-ups.  I still make plenty of mistakes and my ever-growing experience is making me better at hiding the inevitable.  The most important thing to me is staying safe (machine and person) when trying something new.  If you think it could be a problem, take precautions ahead of time so you and your machine stay safe.
> 
> Bruce


Well said, Bruce.  Well said.  Only point of contention:  I've seen quite a bit of your work.  I'm sure I'm not alone that even though not a formally educated one, you ARE a machinist.

Regards


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## Janderso

BGHansen said:


> The Tool Makers in our tool room at work completed an apprenticeship of 8000 hrs


Working along side a pro for 4 years would be one hell of an education!


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## mmcmdl

8000 hrs for the journeyman machinist papers
10,000 hrs for the toolmakers papers . The extra 2000 hrs goes into tool grinding , metallury (sp) heat treatment , die working ,etc .


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## Janderso

I use the time honored, "seat of my pants" method. 
Someone once said, if you aren't screwing up, you aren't learning anything.
I've also found, there are many ways to accomplish the same outcome.


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## mmcmdl

Jeff . I've always enjoyed working with the engineers that had the theory , but not the reality part down . We never knew what the final outcome would look like . It was very much like a " always learning " position . You will never stop learning , and you'll never stop " screwing things up " . We're " mechanically inclined " !


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## WobblyHand

As someone at the very beginning of the journey, this thread gives me some hope.  It's truly inspiring to see the amazing work of the members here.  I do screw up a lot, (so I have that part right  ) where I need to improve is on the post mortem.  If you don't fully understand what went wrong, it's hard to get better.  It's the bane of the novice, not even recognizing that that operation you just did wasn't a good way to accomplish it, as it limited your future options.


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## Aukai

One of the first things I didn't know, but found out quickly is that what I think I'm doing, and what I see I'm doing, my ears are telling me *STOP!!!*


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## Janderso

Cause and affect.
 I have learned to use the dial indicator on the lathe (no DRO) and the digital readout on the mill.
Makes a world of difference in the accuracy dept.
Slowly but surely I'm working toward those 4,000 hours.
I think I've clocked in about 22 hours so far


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## tjb

Janderso said:


> Cause and affect.
> I have learned to use the dial indicator on the lathe (no DRO) and the digital readout on the mill.
> Makes a world of difference in the accuracy dept.
> Slowly but surely I'm working toward those 4,000 hours.
> I think I've clocked in about 22 hours so far


I haven't even broke twenty yet.


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## Aukai

Well I know it takes me 3hrs per my Al bat, and I've made 20 of them, so I'm gonna snap mah suspenders, tarnation...


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## hman

I've no idea how many hours I've spent at my machine tools ... sometimes succeeding, but all too often ending up just a bit (or occasionally a bunch) off, then adding corrections to "make it work."  An apprenticeship, or even a mentor, would definitely have been of great value.  I do try to learn from my mistakes ... but I'd also like to learn something from my successes.  All too often, I'm not sure why something worked as well as it did.


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## Janderso

I’d spend a whole lot more time in my little wonderful shop but, I’m married.
We went to see the grandkids on Sunday, we spent two hours in the truck plus family time. I figured I was good to go when we got home To work in said wonderful shop.
Not so.


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## Shootymacshootface

Janderso said:


> I’d spend a whole lot more time in my little wonderful shop but, I’m married.
> We went to see the grandkids on Sunday, we spent two hours in the truck plus family time. I figured I was good to go when we got home To work in said wonderful shop.
> Not so.


I feel your pain Bro. If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.


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## Janderso

Shootymacshootface said:


> I feel your pain Bro. If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.


It’s the little comments, “I’m going to work in the shop for a bit”,  “of course”.
Grrrrrrrrr.
When I retire, she’ll say, ”please do”


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## DavidR8

I think I must be extraordinarily lucky. My partner encourages my shop time. Not because she wants rid of me but because she knows it's importance to my mental health.


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## hman

Mine as well!


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## erikmannie

I like to choose a project that requires skills in which I am somewhere between clueless and weak. After months & years of doing this, you can rotate back around because the skills that you learned will have faded a bit.

I also put as much time, money & effort into machining & welding as possible. I will go until I am exhausted & then just a little further.

Working like this, I get a lot of frustration (oops, I mean learning) and some success. 

After I finish a workpiece, all I see is the flaws. I tell myself that I am in it for the journey & that I had a front row seat to the action.

I have come to believe that failed projects are the best if you can come away from it with a lesson learned.

If you ever see somebody that appears to have a talent, I think it is more than likely that they have worked tenaciously for many years on that skill.


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## Janderso

DavidR8 said:


> I think I must be extraordinarily lucky. My partner encourages my shop time. Not because she wants rid of me but because she knows it's importance to my mental health.


If these were normal times, my wife would be out with her friends doing something outside the home. I think part of it is she is going stir crazy.
That puts more pressure on me to spend the little time I do have with her.
I get it.


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## tjb

If Mama ain't happy, nobody's happy.


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## DavidR8

Janderso said:


> If these were normal times, my wife would be out with her friends doing something outside the home. I think part of it is she is going stir crazy.
> That puts more pressure on me to spend the little time I do have with her.
> I get it.



I totally understand that Jeff. We’re going stir crazy too.


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## slodat

Janderso said:


> Yeah, my next two quests are the U2 Shars grinder..



Details? How is it working out for you?


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## Janderso

slodat said:


> Details? How is it working out for you?


I am able to touch up and repair two flute end mills. I haven't tried the spiral flutes yet. I was also able to sharpen drill bits.
I am learning.
It's a very handy machine. My problem is way too many things I want to accomplish and I just have no time.
I have CBN and aluminum oxide wheels. Many options are available to me.


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## Peyton Price 17

i have about 10 hours on lathes.4 on a 12 in swing doing 20 thou cuts then realizing it can do 100 thou. then took to much and scrapped the part.


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## Aukai

Experience is something you get right after you needed it  BTDT


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## Janderso

Peyton Price 17 said:


> i have about 10 hours on lathes.4 on a 12 in swing doing 20 thou cuts then realizing it can do 100 thou. then took to much and scrapped the part.


Know what you mean, I went from a belt drive South Bend 13" to a 7.5HP, gear head 15X50.
Learning I could take .100 to .250" cuts was mind blowing for this hobby machinist.


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