# It's the Little Things



## MrWhoopee (Jul 5, 2021)

Since I got my mill 3 years ago, I've been using this table stop. It works fine, but it's inconvenient to position and always seems to be in the way.




I finally decided it was time to make the vise mount.




I would have preferred 7/8 CR square, but all I had was 3/4 HR. So be it.
1.5 hours machining, overnight soak in vinegar to remove the HR scale and 3 hours to black oxide.
I really have to improve the black oxide process, but the results are getting much better.




Easy to adjust and flips out of the way when not needed.


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## Janderso (Jul 5, 2021)

I must have copied your original. Yes I would agree it can be inconvenient at times.
I like your new method! Simple and easy.
Well done sir.


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## talvare (Jul 6, 2021)

Nice job on the vise stop. I'd like to know more about your process for the black oxide.

Ted


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 6, 2021)

talvare said:


> Nice job on the vise stop. I'd like to know more about your process for the black oxide.
> 
> Ted


I've been using the hydrogen peroxide/salt method.









						Quick rust bluing--- Back in black!
					

The black finish left by the Birchwood-Casey Super-blue just wasn't doing it for me this day.      The photo misleads, making them look a b...




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This last time, I simplified it some.
1. Clean/degrease part (I didn't bother)
2. Immerse part in peroxide/salt solution and leave until the reaction ceases. Discard the spent solution.
3. Immerse part in boiling water. After 5-10 minutes brush with soft brush (old toothbrush) to remove soft red oxide while still in immersed in water.
4. Repeat steps 2 & 3 until the finish is satisfactory or you run out of peroxide solution.
5. Rinse and wipe dry, then apply oil to prevent any further rusting. I use way oil

The part will look horrible after step 2, don't freak out, just keep going. The finish will look mottled and uneven at first but will get better with each repetition.  I've been using just enough peroxide solution to cover the part. I believe that if I used a larger volume that it would take fewer repetitions to complete the process. Repeating step 2 while the part is still hot from step 3 accelerates the reaction. 

I have not tried it, but it is my suspicion that with enough repetitions of steps 2&3 the reaction in step 2 would slow and possibly cease when there is no more iron available for oxidation. If so, this would provide the best protection from further rusting.


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## talvare (Jul 6, 2021)

Thanks for the detailed instruction. I've been slowly building a scale model of a Civil War cannon and there are a lot of parts on the carriage that I would like to give the black oxide treatment, so this information will be very useful.
Thanks again
Ted


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## mmcmdl (Jul 6, 2021)

I believe I have 10 or so table mounted stops and vise stops here . If anyone is in the market for 1 or 5 I'll put them up on here .


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 19, 2021)

Yet another "little thing". I've been storing my excess 5c collets in a rack made from a piece of 2x6, which was less than satisfactory. I was recently SUI (shopping under the influence) and ordered half a dozen collets off Aliexpress. Time for some upgraded storage.


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## epanzella (Jul 19, 2021)

MrWhoopee said:


> I've been using the hydrogen peroxide/salt method.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are correct sir. If all the available surface is rusted, the surface becomes nearly inert. I rust blued the rifles I built until they just stoped reacting and they have  never rusted in the field. Nice work on the stop!


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## MrWhoopee (Aug 7, 2021)

Rather than order a replacement for the wrong faucet aerator I just received, I decided just to make an adapter. No big deal, 15/16-27 threads on the OD, 13/16-27 threads on the ID. The OD was the challenge because I had to remove it from the lathe to test. Thread wires are a pain, especially that small. Perfect fit OD and ID. Glad my old Heavy 10 will cut 27 tpi. It's these little things that make me giggle.


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## MrWhoopee (Mar 15, 2022)

Today's little thing was table covers for the mill. After scavenging thru my stock, I found a piece of 11 ga. S/S sheared exactly 9" x 36". Pretty substantial for table covers, but it's the right size. Aluminum buttons on the underside keep them from sliding around.


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## aliva (Mar 16, 2022)

I made a similar covers for each side using 1/2" plywood. I added a 3/4 boarder on 3 sides to stop things from falling  on the floor. I also imbedded neodymium button  magnets to the under side to adhere to the table


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## Janderso (Mar 26, 2022)

I just found what I can do with this 1/8” aluminum sheeting.
Between the chip deflectors and table covers chip management just got easier.


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 4, 2022)

The pair of collet blocks I bought came with 2 nuts, but no spanner for tightening them....


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 12, 2022)

After nervously using a converntional HSS dovetail cutter, I made a couple of Randy Richard style cutters. Haven't tried them yet, waiting for inserts for the larger one. My black oxide is getting better.


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## Janderso (Jul 12, 2022)

Looks great!
If I had the skill I would make a set.
Would you share a pic showing dimensions and angles?
I would like to try


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 12, 2022)

Janderso said:


> Looks great!
> If I had the skill I would make a set.
> Would you share a pic showing dimensions and angles?
> I would like to try


Funny you should ask. Randy didn't actually provide the numbers in his video, he just used an insert to establish the cut and tap locations.





That's not my style, so I drew it up in Acad and interrogated for the dimensions. This is the smaller one.

Drawing Removed

The lathe work is pretty obvious, here's the setup for milling the insert seat.




I need to do a little work on the drawing for the larger one.


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## Janderso (Jul 12, 2022)

MrWhoopee said:


> Funny you should ask. Randy didn't actually provide the numbers in his video, he just used an insert to establish the cut and tap locations.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perfect 

Thanks man


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## FOMOGO (Jul 12, 2022)

Nice work on the cutters. Let us know how they work out. Mike


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## tjb (Jul 12, 2022)

FOMOGO said:


> Nice work on the cutters. Let us know how they work out. Mike


Ditto.


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 13, 2022)

FOMOGO said:


> Nice work on the cutters. Let us know how they work out. Mike


Thanks, will do.
In the meantime, there are several videos on Youtube

Here's the larger one.
Drawing Removed


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## Gaffer (Jul 13, 2022)

MrWhoopee said:


> Funny you should ask. Randy didn't actually provide the numbers in his video, he just used an insert to establish the cut and tap locations.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_That's not my style, so I drew it up in Acad and *interrogated *for the dimensions. This is the smaller one._
So, it looks like you were able to cop-out Randy for those dimensions with your mad skills!    Sorry, I couldn't resist!


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 13, 2022)

I tested the small cutter today and found I needed more clearance behind the cutting edges. I was able to take some material off the end and taper to get it. Screwed up my nice oxide job. I've updated the drawing to reflect the changes (both in this post and the original). I also biased the tapped hole a couple of thousandths toward the back of the insert seat to apply a little pressure there.

Drawing Removed

The larger cutter should already have enough clearance, but I won't know for sure until I have the inserts.


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## Janderso (Jul 15, 2022)

MrWhoopee said:


> Funny you should ask. Randy didn't actually provide the numbers in his video, he just used an insert to establish the cut and tap locations.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is the part I wasn’t sure how to set up.
I was struggling with the placement on  of the hold down screw. Your mill set up and the DRO, .123” offset should do the trick.
I think i’m going to give this a try.
Thanks for the pic of your milling set up.


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## Winegrower (Jul 15, 2022)

I saw a nice method and used it to make a couple of these, and it makes things way easier and more accurate.   Rather than use calculated dimensions for the screw hole, use a pin just the size or slightly larger than the insert mounting hole.  Chuck up the pin, put the insert on the dovetail roughly where it would sit, lower the pin to/through the insert hole and move the Table around in X and Y until the insert is exactly where it should be.  Drill and tap there, or move the hole position a couple thousandths to crowd the insert for a tighter fit.

Edit:  Ha ha, maybe it was Randy’s tip.   The sign of a very experienced machinist is when you can’t remember who you learned something from.


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## Brento (Jul 15, 2022)

MrWhoopee said:


> I tested the small cutter today and found I needed more clearance behind the cutting edges. I was able to take some material off the end and taper to get it. Screwed up my nice oxide job. I've updated the drawing to reflect the changes (both in this post and the original). I also biased the tapped hole a couple of thousandths toward the back of the insert seat to apply a little pressure there.
> 
> View attachment 413646
> 
> ...


How far down did you cut to seat the insert?


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## Brento (Jul 15, 2022)

MrWhoopee said:


> I tested the small cutter today and found I needed more clearance behind the cutting edges. I was able to take some material off the end and taper to get it. Screwed up my nice oxide job. I've updated the drawing to reflect the changes (both in this post and the original). I also biased the tapped hole a couple of thousandths toward the back of the insert seat to apply a little pressure there.
> 
> View attachment 413646
> 
> ...


Looking at this drawing it looks the same as the other drawing you posted earlier.


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 15, 2022)

Brento said:


> Looking at this drawing it looks the same as the other drawing you posted earlier.


The dimension to the back of the insert seat was increased to move the insert farther out. I updated the earlier post so there won't be an incorrect version to be mistakenly used. 



Brento said:


> How far down did you cut to seat the insert?


In each one, the seat is cut an amount equal to the insert thickness below centerline, which puts the cutting edge on center. It's shown in the end view to the right.


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## Brento (Jul 15, 2022)

MrWhoopee said:


> The dimension to the back of the insert seat was increased to move the insert farther out. I updated the earlier post so there won't be an incorrect version to be mistakenly used.
> 
> 
> In each one, the seat is cut an amount equal to the insert thickness below centerline, which puts the cutting edge on center. It's shown in the end view to the right.


Yup stupid me was looking at it the wrong way


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 17, 2022)

I got to do a little work with the small cutter yesterday. Running at 1320 rpm it leaves a very nice finish.


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 17, 2022)

Today I started noticing some problems with the little cutter. There were signs of rubbing on the clearance angle behind the cutting edge, and the bottom of the insert (surface against the cutter) was breaking down. The inserts had arrived for the larger cutter so I loaded it up. By the time I finished the first pass it was showing the same kind of breakdown, only worse. At first I was thinking that the clearance angle of the insert was not sufficient for the radius of the cutter, but that didn't make much sense. Then I measured the thickness of the inserts. The little one is supposed to be .093, but it measures .103. Same thing for the large insert, .166 instead of .156. This puts the cutting edge "above" center, like a parting tool that is too high. 

I intend to remake the little cutter, which is pretty beat up. I may be able to repair the big one. If not, I will remake it too. Will be removing the drawings above until I have this worked out.

It's a shame, they LOOKED so good.


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## extropic (Jul 17, 2022)

@MrWhoopee 

What is the cause of the dimensional discrepancy?

What are the ANSI codes for the two inserts you intend to use?


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 18, 2022)

extropic said:


> @MrWhoopee
> 
> What is the cause of the dimensional discrepancy?
> 
> What are the ANSI codes for the two inserts you intend to use?


They are TCMT 21.51 & TCMT 32.51


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## extropic (Jul 18, 2022)

@MrWhoopee 

The 3/32" thickness dimension of the TCMT21.51 insert is not the overall thickness of the insert (flat to flat). It is the dimension from a flat mounting face to the cutting edge on the opposite side. The overall thickness may be greater. Take a good look.


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 20, 2022)

extropic said:


> @MrWhoopee
> 
> The 3/32" thickness dimension of the TCMT21.51 insert is not the overall thickness of the insert (flat to flat). It is the dimension from a flat mounting face to the cutting edge on the opposite side. The overall thickness may be greater. Take a good look.


I checked the thickness at the cutting edge. They are indeed .010 thicker than spec.


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## extropic (Jul 20, 2022)

MrWhoopee said:


> I checked the thickness at the cutting edge. They are indeed .010 thicker than spec.



Weird!

Are they cheap import inserts?

Do you have access to a surface grinder (to thin the insert(s))?
Alternatively, do you have enough of the thick inserts that making a special tool makes sense?


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 20, 2022)

extropic said:


> Weird!
> 
> Are they cheap import inserts?
> 
> ...


Yes, they are cheap import inserts, ordered from different suppliers. I would think if they wanted to skimp the inserts would be undersize. I recently got a set of inserted boring bars (also import) that use the TCMT 21.51 inserts. Those inserts are .0935 on the money. 

I have no problem modifying or making new cutters based on the size of these inserts. I'm trying to figure out if that would pose a problem using correctly sized inserts. I think it wouldn't be a problem (similar to parting tool slightly below CL).


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## MrWhoopee (Nov 2, 2022)

Today's little thing is a bottom cover for the Servo feed on my mill. The cover's been missing since I got it, five years ago, so I guess it's about time.




Starting with a piece of 4 in. ABS drain pipe, I cut a ring about 1.25, then split the remaining piece lengthwise and put it in the toaster oven. When it was nice and soft I put it on the welding table and pressed it flat with a baking pan.




Then I cut out a circle and glued it to the ring.




Next it was off to the lathe to turn, face,  bore etc. 






and done.


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## ChazzC (Nov 2, 2022)

MrWhoopee said:


> Today's little thing is a bottom cover for the Servo feed on my mill. The cover's been missing since I got it, five years ago, so I guess it's about time.
> 
> View attachment 425378
> 
> ...



Nice!

ABS & PVC pipe and fittings can be handy starting points for a lot of low/non-stress applications.


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