# Anyone Recognize This Surface Grinder



## f350ca (May 22, 2016)

In a quest to fill the space where the Logan shaper was I ran across this little grinder.






From a brief email he said the chuck was 6x12, and he only used it for sharpening.
I don't even know enough about surface grinders to be dangerous, so what should I look for when I go to look at it.
Guess he's retiring and selling off his shop.
Thanks
Greg


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## FLguy (May 23, 2016)

I used one many years ago and that looks to be the same. It was a Boyer Shultz 612. I'd like to get one again but I need a shoe horn to get into my shop as it is, so unless I knock down a wall, and that is'nt going to happen so......


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## f350ca (May 23, 2016)

Thanks, by your comment I take it that it was a good machine? Occasionally I need one, not just would like to have one. Nothing big, thinking slackers, truing up parallels, vice jaws etc. 
As I posted it has a 12 inch magnet, would the stroke do my 15 1/2 planner blades?
Thanks for the reply.
Greg


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## FLguy (May 24, 2016)

I really think the answer is no. I think what would happen is at the tables end of travel the grinding wheel would still be on your blade. If the spindle bearings are good and table moves freely and the price is good for you then go for it. Ya there are quite a few around and if I had more floor space I'd like to have that B/S grinder.


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## Andre (May 24, 2016)

Looks like a Harig Super 6x12 to me


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## neshkoro (May 25, 2016)

Looks like a Boyer Schultz. I just sold one last year for $350.00.
The chuck is worth a couple of hundred dollars. The max left to right travel is 12" plus a little.
Check the spindle bearings. That's what usually goes. They are either noisy or the wheel bounces while grinding giving a lousy finish.If it is under power when you look at it, do a test grind on a small piece of steel. I've never seen one with a 110 volt motor. Most are 3 phase/ 220 volt. Some are single phase/ 220 volt
Good luck,

Bill


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## chips&more (May 25, 2016)

It’s not until you get it and use it a few times that you will find more and more things to grind. You’ll wonder how you got along without one!


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## Steve-626 (May 25, 2016)

Looks like a Boyer Schultz.

If the photo was any good, you could read the name on the front.


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## f350ca (May 25, 2016)

Picked it up today, photos to follow. It is a Boyer Schultz 612. Thanks.
It seams in great condition, flaking still visible on the ways. Im hoping the spindle bearings are good Bill, we ran it and it sounded a little rough, the belt is absolutely shot, chunks missing and parts shredding.
He apparently only used it for sharpening chamfering tools.
Came with a good selection of wheels, several diamond coated steel wheels for carbide. 
Thanks for the info
Greg


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## neshkoro (May 26, 2016)

Just curious. Do you mind sharing the price?


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## f350ca (May 26, 2016)

He was asking $400 Bill, with all the wheels, and 7 wheel adaptors, diamond dresser, original wrenches, wheel pullers oh and a spare motor with a rebuild tag on it I felt guilty and gave him $450.

Greg


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## FLguy (May 27, 2016)

Ya got good deal. Inspect it well. You well to enjoy having it I'm sure.


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## Cheeseking (May 27, 2016)

Dust collector.   Don't forget a dust collector.


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## f350ca (May 27, 2016)

Finished cleaning and degritting and have it reassembled. Blew some of the top coat of paint off when cleaning it with the pressure washer.
Pulled the spindle apart and washed out the bearings, the grease was pretty dry, we'll see how they do. Looks like two deep groove ball bearings with bellville washers setting the preload. High end looking bearings with spring clips holding the shields.`
The ways look great, some flacking on the long axis and the rest look pristine.
Now I need to get some 4 conductor cord to get it wired.






Greg


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## Andre (May 27, 2016)

Careful taking precision spindles apart, you might as well put new bearings in it now though. 

Nice find and great price!


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## f350ca (May 27, 2016)

The bearings had a dry sound to them Andre so there was nothing but a bit of time to loose. If I've caught them before any damage was done they have a chance. I've cleaned and repacked lots of bearings with good success. Even installed ones where the inner and outer races split with a finger joint and the cage and seals were in two sections to install them in the middle of a line shaft on overhead cranes. If that can be done in a steel mill environment these have a good chance.

Greg


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## f350ca (May 28, 2016)

It made its way to its final resting spot. Ran power to it and fired it up. Im half deft but all I can hear is belt whine, think the bearings might be alright. After about half an hour the spindle is slightly warm so the belleville washers must be achieving their preload.
May need to invest in a better indicator now that we have something that should consistently work to 1/10ths. With a 0.001 indicator the table shows no movement down the axis and maybe 0.0002 high in the middle across it but the indicator is bouncing over the T-slot so that ones a bit iffy. The magnet face is true across and about 0.0007 high at the right end. Will remove and clean again and see what we get. So Im happy with that.






At present I don't know enough about grinding to even be dangerous, mounted the orange wheel shown and dressed it. Tried it on a pice of mild steel.





In a little better light,






There is a little pattern in the finish, is that typical of mild steel, or bearing bounce? Or is that even a candidate wheel for mild steel, the specs were covered with the washers so no idea what it is to even look it up.
This was a 1/2 thou cut, 1 thou would blue the surface, how fast should you feed the table, this was at a pretty good clip.
Be thankful for any comments, good or bad.

Greg


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## pdentrem (May 28, 2016)

We use white 60/80 soft bond wheels for our grinding. That finish is fairly typical, I tend to finish with 0.0005, after a final redress of the wheel. We dry grind our tooling (stamping die etc) and yes one can burn the steel with a dull/ loaded wheel or too fast feed. Dust collection is important as the grit will get on everything.


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## Cheeseking (May 28, 2016)

I could be wrong but arent most grinders are direct drive, no belts?    The boyars may be different.


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## pdentrem (May 28, 2016)

Yes, Boyar are normally direct drive as stated earlier. Both of ours are 3 phase 220/440.
Pierre


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## f350ca (May 29, 2016)

Think this is an early model, all the manuals I find show direct drive. This one is 3 phase 220 only.


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## neshkoro (May 30, 2016)

The newer ones are direct drive with a Lovejoy coupling making the connection from the motor shaft to the spindle. The older ones are belt drive.
Bill


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## Restorer (Jun 1, 2016)

f350ca,

Nice find!  If possible buy or make a dust collector hood and connect to a shop vac or dust collector.   This will contain some of the mess and help keep grit out of other machines.
Dust covers on adjacent machines are a good idea.

Some pointers on operation:  When mounting a wheel, ring it.  That is hold your finger horizontal and parallel to the floor.  Slide the grinding wheel on to your cantilevered finger and tap the OD side lightly with a screw driver handle.
It should ring like a bell.  If a dull thud is heard it is cracked and should be discarded.  Mount the wheel with paper rings on both sides.

To dress the wheel, place a diamond mounted in a steel block on a clean magnetic chuck.  Turn the chuck on and check that it is secure.  Position the diamond near wheel center off set slightly to the direction the sparks go.
With the spindle running, lower the wheel until you hear it just touch, quickly feed the diamond acrossed the wheel face.  Lower the wheel .002 and repeat, until the wheel face is clean.

When grinding your work, bring the wheel down to just touch the highest spot.  When you get the first spark move the work totally out from under the wheel and the side of the wheel near the edge of the work.  Feed the wheel down .002 to .003 inches.  Use approx. 1/4 of a turn on the traverse for feed.  For rough work go deeper up to .005 with one turn of traverse.  For fine finish work .0005 depth of cut and 1/8 turn of traverse.

That should get you started.  For hardened tool steel, I like a wheel that is 60 grit aluminum oxide (white wheel) with an "H or I" bond.  Do not use bench grinder wheels the results will be awful!  After 1/3 of the original diameter is used, discard the wheel.

Keeping the work cool is important,  spritzing water from a recycled bathroom cleaner bottle works.

After getting some experience and able to achieve an excellent surface finish, regrind the top of the magnet.  Scribble over the top with a ink marker to aid in determining when it is cleaned up.

Avoid sliding work sideways to remove from the magnetic chuck.  That will damage the chuck.  Use a wrench or vise as a handle to break free of the residual magnetism after turning the chuck off, and lift vertically.
A large India stone is your friend.  Before starting a setup, and after wiping the chuck, spritz some water and lightly rub the stone over the surface.  If a high spot exists it will cause a noticeable drag and can be stoned off.

Enjoy your new machine!

Restorer


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## f350ca (Jun 1, 2016)

Thanks 
Some great information.
Thought .002 to .003 would have been too heavy a cut let alone .005
Thanks for the tip on not sliding work off the chuck, makes sense.

Greg


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## Canuck75 (Jun 4, 2016)

Enjoyed the article. I live in Kanata, any way we can get in touch?

Canuck75


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## McRuff (Jun 12, 2016)

The Boyer Shultz grinders are generally rack drive on the table and this causes mild bounce on the table as it travels  back and forth.


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## Glenn Brooks (Jul 2, 2016)

For a good (free) reference book on grinding, search Google books on line for "Advanced Grinding Practice" written by Hamilton in 1915.  It's free through Google Books, and contains many chapters regarding how to do precision grinding.  Also there are some newer references available through on line booksellers, but cost money to purchase.  I've found this 1915 reference to be a very useful resource for learning how to use my OD grinder.

Glenn


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## dlane (Jul 2, 2016)

F350 that is a strange looking green drill press next to the grinder, I've never seen one like that
dose it work good, I'm guessing the table moves up and down.
Post 17


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## f350ca (Jul 2, 2016)

Thanks Glenn, looks like there is a wealth of knowledge there, may take an evening or two to go through it. will pick up some pointers on using the tool post grinder too.

Diane, I thought it was a small drill press too. A buddy was moving and gave it to me. It sat in the storage container for a few years till I saw a post where someone was restoring a Hamilton tapping machine. The cone clutches give forward and reverse. Raise the table and the bottom cones engage and the spindle turns right handed to drill or run the tap in, pull down on the work and the top cones engage and back the tap out. I cleaned it up but haven't really had a need for it YET.






Greg


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## dlane (Jul 2, 2016)

It's a tapper I like it


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## neshkoro (Jul 8, 2016)

The tipoff should have been the opposing cones. 


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## toolman_ar (Aug 2, 2016)

F350,
I have a grinder similar to yours. Belt driven...

I have just started the tear down and clean up. 

When you replaced your belt, did you just go to the parts store and get a belt that matched up?

Looking at my pulley, it is shiny in the bottom. I think I need a bit wider belt to ride more on the side of the pulley.

I thought the motor had a bad bearing, but now I think it is just the belt being old and not wanting to bend around the pulley. I took the motor off and opened it up. But found no evidence of a bad bearing.

toolman_ar


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## brino (Aug 2, 2016)

Since this thread has been resurrected, here's a direct link to the download page to Advanced Grinding Practice by Hamilton and Jones.

https://archive.org/details/advancedgrindin00jonegoog
Just go to the "download" box and hit "pdf" (or whatever flavour you want).

-brino


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## f350ca (Aug 2, 2016)

The old belt was in rough shape but I could still read the length so just replaced it with one from the hardware store. Wish I could remember the length. If your belt is worn it would ride on the bottom of the pulley, a new standard one might fix the problem
A wider belt will be stiffer and might cause vibrations.
Found that book too brino, haven't had time to read much of it yet but looks like it could be useful, Thanks

Greg


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## toolman_ar (Aug 3, 2016)

Greg,
I can still read my belt numbers.

And will try and post them for reference.

Will try the new standard belt and see where it rides.

Thank you for your help!

toolman_ar


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## Dabbler (Nov 3, 2016)

Hello F350ca
Did the grinder turn out to be a 110v 1ph or a 220 3ph?  

I am currently trying to buy a 110V out of Quebec privately, but my french isn't so good, so we aren't coming to terms yet.  (but hopeful).


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## f350ca (Nov 3, 2016)

Dabbler said:


> Hello F350ca
> Did the grinder turn out to be a 110v 1ph or a 220 3ph?
> 
> I am currently trying to buy a 110V out of Quebec privately, but my french isn't so good, so we aren't coming to terms yet.  (but hopeful).



This one is 220 volt 3 phase, from what I gather most are 3 phase. I've read in posts that the pulses from a single phase motor will affect the finish. Maybe but I find it hard to believe, if its a 3600 rpm motor theres 6 poles so 360 pulses per second, which would get smoothed out by the mass of the armature and grinding wheel. 

Greg


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## Dabbler (Nov 4, 2016)

That is a common 'wisdom'.  From my perspective, I am interested in .0002 or .0003 accuracy, and don't care about the look of the finish in any event.  Besides, surface finish is more affected by the balance of the wheel and the smoothness of the carriage.   And if I can avoid the $400 for a VFD, then I'm all in.

The deal soured over shipping and overall price.  sigh.  back to the search.


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## Silverbullet (Nov 4, 2016)

Dabbler said:


> That is a common 'wisdom'.  From my perspective, I am interested in .0002 or .0003 accuracy, and don't care about the look of the finish in any event.  Besides, surface finish is more affected by the balance of the wheel and the smoothness of the carriage.   And if I can avoid the $400 for a VFD, then I'm all in.
> 
> The deal soured over shipping and overall price.  sigh.  back to the search.


Hang in there , lots of grinders out there. I looked for one about two years then one popped up with a willing to deliver deal. I sent him with my best price and she's an old monster but fresh out of service to me. I expected it to be like the one here but nope its a Hugh landis with about ten extra wheels. Not new but usable. I need to get a buzz box or vfd. Haven't got her in the shop yet . She's been sprayed down with my own oil and cleaning mixture. And covered with a tarp. The way it looks spring will be here first. It's just me doing everything from a wheelchair so not to much gets done. All my so called friends who I've helped aren't around for me. Oh well. Take care keep looking ,


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## Dabbler (Nov 4, 2016)

Silverbullet said:


> Hang in there , lots of grinders out there.



Thanks Silverbullet!  I get all exited and watch diligently for a month or more, then lose track for six months or so...  Been doing that for a couple of years now. 



Silverbullet said:


> It's just me doing everything from a wheelchair so not to much gets done.



I wish I wasn't 3000Km (2000 miles) away - I'd be happy to help you if I was near you.  Good luck with getting it going! 

BTW  My ship came in on a milling machine last week, a 9X49 A Bridgeport clone made in Taiwan... Will have to buy a VFD for it (3 phase) but it is worth it!


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## silverforgestudio (Jan 4, 2017)

F350- nice grinder!

A bit late to this thread- but the grit and dust collection is spot on my friend.

TIP- place a few magnets inside sandwich baggies hung from ceiling around your shop... you will be AMAZED at the swarf dust/grit/bits it collects just from passive air currents. To clean- just turn the baggie inside out and remove from magnet... easy!

Love the thread! Like the lil tapper too!

Kerri


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## f350ca (Jan 4, 2017)

Thanks Kerri, will try the magnets.

Greg


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