# shop built tool holder



## Bob Neumann (Feb 17, 2015)

I just picked up a small lathe with a rocker style tool post.  I think it's designed for a 3/8 by 7/8 tool holders, of which I have zero.  

I can see that I can buy them on Ebay or whatever, but I do have some 3/8 flat steel, and the ability to cut it more or less square and flat.  And the whole point of owning machinery is to use it to do and make.  So buying is out of the question.  

Cutting the 3/8 steel into a shank that the tool post can hold is no problem.  But drilling/broaching a square hole to receive the tool bit is probably beyond where I'm at.

However, I do have a metal-cutting skilsaw that I think I can use like a fly cutter to mill a slot.  So I'm thinking that cut some 3/8 plate to the general shape of a tool holder and then bend a "head" on it "x" degrees to the left or right.  Then I'll cut/mill a 1/4 slot in the outer cheek of the head.  Then I'll drill and tap a hole in the cheek so that I can clamp a plate against the toolbit and I'm in business.

So for "standard" left/right/straight tool holders, what angles (both left-right and up-down) should the bit be in relation to the shank of the holder itself?  Are there any standards or drawings out there?

Any other advice before I charge down this path?

Thanks in advance,

Bob


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## John Hasler (Feb 17, 2015)

Bob Neumann said:


> I just picked up a small lathe with a rocker style tool post.  I think it's designed for a 3/8 by 7/8 tool holders, of which I have zero.
> 
> I can see that I can buy them on Ebay or whatever, but I do have some 3/8 flat steel, and the ability to cut it more or less square and flat.  And the whole point of owning machinery is to use it to do and make.  So buying is out of the question.
> 
> ...



Before doing that I'd consider fabricating an entirely different kind of toolpost.  Those lantern posts are kind of wiggly at  best.


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## Bob Neumann (Feb 17, 2015)

Funny you should say that.  I have permission from my accountant to spend more-or-less $100 on something.  I could buy a cheap qctp setup on ebay.  Or a cheap 4-jaw chuck on Ebay.
(I currently have a 3 jaw chuck)

If you had to choose one or the other, which would it be?

Bob


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## davidh (Feb 17, 2015)

4 jaw is probably best option.  remember a lathe can reproduce itself. . . . altho a 4 jaw chuck may be a difficult project compared to a new tool holder.   which one could you build easiest ?
 this will be a test


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## cathead (Feb 17, 2015)

Bob Neumann said:


> I just picked up a small lathe with a rocker style tool post.  I think it's designed for a 3/8 by 7/8 tool holders, of which I have zero.
> 
> I can see that I can buy them on Ebay or whatever, but I do have some 3/8 flat steel, and the ability to cut it more or less square and flat.  And the whole point of owning machinery is to use it to do and make.  So buying is out of the question.
> 
> ...



Hi Bob, 

Personally I would get the 4 jaw chuck and build the tool post.  A chuck is more challenging to make than 
a tool post and you can use the 4 jaw chuck to square up some material for the tool post.  I have both 3 and 4 jaw
chucks and seldom use the 3 jaw because all it can do is hold cylindrical stuff on center.  If you use a 4 jaw
chuck very much, you can center parts quite quickly with no runout.  You could build a tool post with a 4 jaw
chuck but you couldn't build a 4 jaw chuck with a new tool post and a 3 jaw chuck.


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## 18w (Feb 17, 2015)

Bob, though I admire your enthusiasm I think this is a project that begs some thought. Lantern tool post tool holders can be had for next to nothing on craigslist or garage sales. Possibly even from a member here. A lot of work has been done on small lathes with rocker tool posts so for starting out nothing wrong with using what you have. My caution is the standard tool holders typically were forged, quite possibly stronger than your average flat bar or perhaps I should say stiffer. One of the pitfalls of rocker post systems is there lack of rigidity compared to a QCTP. And as others have said, get yourself a 4 jaw, most valuable tool for your lathe. The other posters are suggesting making the tool post itself which could be a nice project. I am talking about the tool bit holders as you are describing. Your description of using a metal cuting skill saw to cut the slot on such a small part is fraught with danger IMHO.

Regards
Darrell


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## John Hasler (Feb 17, 2015)

Bob Neumann said:


> Funny you should say that.  I have permission from my accountant to spend more-or-less $100 on something.  I could buy a cheap qctp setup on ebay.  Or a cheap 4-jaw chuck on Ebay.
> (I currently have a 3 jaw chuck)
> 
> If you had to choose one or the other, which would it be?
> ...


Buy the chuck.  Build the post.  It needn't be a fancy QCTP.


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## Bob Neumann (Feb 17, 2015)

18w said:


> Bob, though I admire your enthusiasm I think this is a project that begs some thought. Lantern tool post tool holders can be had for next to nothing on craigslist or garage sales. Possibly even from a member here. A lot of work has been done on small lathes with rocker tool posts so for starting out nothing wrong with using what you have. My caution is the standard tool holders typically were forged, quite possibly stronger than your average flat bar or perhaps I should say stiffer. One of the pitfalls of rocker post systems is there lack of rigidity compared to a QCTP. And as others have said, get yourself a 4 jaw, most valuable tool for your lathe. The other posters are suggesting making the tool post itself which could be a nice project. I am talking about the tool bit holders as you are describing. Your description of using a metal cuting skill saw to cut the slot on such a small part is fraught with danger IMHO.
> 
> Regards
> Darrell


1.  You're probably right.
     a. definitely about the rigidity.  Hadn't really even considered that.
     b. probably about the skilsaw. 
2.  But I don't want to hear it.   

Looks like I need to think some more...

Thanks for your input.

Bob


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## 18w (Feb 17, 2015)

Bob
1 what kind of lathe do you have?
2 let us know the size like the diam of swing
3 I didn't want to hear about you hurting yourself with that skilsaw set up either.

Regards
Darrell


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## randyc (Feb 17, 2015)

I use a lantern tool post, although infrequently.  Mostly I don't use a toolholder in it, just put a 3/8 HSS cutter in the lantern with whatever shim underneath is appropriate.  The Armstrong and Williams type of toolholders, in my opinion, are very versatile but maybe not the best choice for heavy DOC.

But I have the same opinion regarding QCTP systems - way too much overhang for heavy DOC in small and medium size lathes.  Just a personal opinion based on experience 

As mentioned previously those old lantern tool posts and Armstrong tool holders have produced millions and millions of precision parts and BIG parts, too.  There is still a place for them in lathe tooling collections.


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## Bob Neumann (Feb 17, 2015)

I just got it, it's my first metal lathe, an Atlas 10100 (6 x 18).  For years I've been doing a lot of fabbing and scabbing, but nothing so far that would qualify as "precision".  Since it isn't going to earn me any income, a metal lathe has been out of my price range.  I keep looking for that too good to be true deal, and, (on my birthday, no less) I finally found it on CL, and was the first guy to call.  Complete lathe, with an at least substantially complete set of change gears, in usable not pristine condition, for $250.  I consider it a steal.

Bob


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## Bob Neumann (Feb 17, 2015)

randyc said:


> I use a lantern tool post, although infrequently.  Mostly I don't use a toolholder in it, just put a 3/8 HSS cutter in the lantern with whatever shim underneath is appropriate.  The Armstrong and Williams type of toolholders, in my opinion, are very versatile but maybe not the best choice for heavy DOC.
> 
> But I have the same opinion regarding QCTP systems - way too much overhang for heavy DOC in small and medium size lathes.  Just a personal opinion based on experience
> 
> As mentioned previously those old lantern tool posts and Armstrong tool holders have produced millions and millions of precision parts and BIG parts, too.  There is still a place for them in lathe tooling collections.


 

Showing my newbie stripes here:  DOC means... "Depth of cut"?

I was able to put a 3/8 bit in the toolpost holder, but it was a carbide tipped bit (Harbor freight) that was pretty blunt.  So I figured I was being penny wise and pound foolish if I didn't just get ahold of a regular tool holder and use the 1/4 inch tools like "I'm supposed to."  

Maybe I just need to track down some HSS 3/8 toolbits that I can sharpen myself.  Thanks for the idea.

Bob


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## 18w (Feb 17, 2015)

Randy has offered the simplest and cheapest option to allow you to get to use your lathe. This will give you time to find deals on holders or another toolpost. Definitely get some hss bits and learn to sharpen. Your lathe will like hss. Congrats on the new lathe.

Darrell


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## John Hasler (Feb 17, 2015)

randyc said:


> I use a lantern tool post, although infrequently. Mostly I don't use a toolholder in it, just put a 3/8 HSS cutter in the lantern with whatever shim underneath is appropriate.


I've done that but mostly I just clamp a 3/8" cutter to the top of the compound between squares of drilled plate.  I've got some material for a toolpost but it won't be QC: just a simple square post with clamping screws and slots for cutters.


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## randyc (Feb 17, 2015)

Bob Neumann said:


> I just got it, it's my first metal lathe, an Atlas 10100 (6 x 18).  For years I've been doing a lot of fabbing and scabbing, but nothing so far that would qualify as "precision".  Since it isn't going to earn me any income, a metal lathe has been out of my price range.  I keep looking for that too good to be true deal, and, (on my birthday, no less) I finally found it on CL, and was the first guy to call.  Complete lathe, with an at least substantially complete set of change gears, in usable not pristine condition, for $250.  I consider it a steal.
> 
> Bob



Nice little lathe if it's like the one that I bought and used fifty years ago.  If not well-worn, $250 is a very good price - I paid $100 for mine fifty years ago and inflation would probably exceed what you paid (even ignoring supply/demand).  Solidly mounted and aligned, well-tooled and intelligently used, you will surprise people at how capable that small machine can be !

I made a 4-way tool post for the little Atlas after using it for a while but found that I removed it in favor of the lantern some 20% of the time.  When working with awkwardly shaped objects, the Armstrong system can be adjusted to some surprising configurations that are very useful.

Numero uno priority:  get some HSS cutters and learn to grind them.  You will be way more satisfied with the results than with carbide cutters.  Your lathe doesn't have the spindle RPM to utilize carbide efficiently and carbide cannot be ground to a really sharp edge, even with a diamond wheel !


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## randyc (Feb 17, 2015)

Oops, I repeated the advice that several other members offered, sorry for not reading the responses more carefully


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## basildoug10 (Mar 3, 2015)

Bob Neumann said:


> I just picked up a small lathe with a rocker style tool post.  I think it's designed for a 3/8 by 7/8 tool holders, of which I have zero.
> 
> I can see that I can buy them on Ebay or whatever, but I do have some 3/8 flat steel, and the ability to cut it more or less square and flat.  And the whole point of owning machinery is to use it to do and make.  So buying is out of the question.
> 
> ...


Hi Bob, I am somewhat new at machining but have had a small lathe for 14 years now. I am however very serious about machining as I am nearing retirement. I have bought myself a really great lathe just 18 monthe back and I am also aquiring more tooling and machines. I recently read your post with some interest. I do realise that by now you may have made your decision one way or another. If you are undedecided between purchasing a new 4 Jaw chuck or a tool post holder, it does not seem to me that having a collection of chucks but not being able to machine much in the way of anything because your tool holder is somewhat dodgey and subject to vibration, (even though you poured your heart and soul into making it), I think it is best to cover all your bases first, and then you can add other items as you grow your tooling. I would rather get a good tool post holder first and that way you can get cracking on your projects, and soon other "nice to have" tooling will come
Kind regards Basildoug10


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