# POLL......What do you think of Starrett?



## Finster (Apr 12, 2017)

Starrett, the stuff goes for a small fortune. Now, the old stuff was fairly nice in my opinion. However, for this poll I'm only talking about the stuff they have today. Have you bought a new Starrett lately? What did you think overall? I was never a fan to be honest. It's just my opinion but the dial indicators have always been junk. I never liked the "feel" of the  mics (now worse than ever) and never like the dial calipers for various reasons. What do you think?


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## Bob Korves (Apr 12, 2017)

Finster said:


> Starrett, the stuff goes for a small fortune. Now, the old stuff was fairly nice in my opinion. However, for this poll I'm only talking about the stuff they have today. Have you bought a new Starrett lately? What did you think overall? I was never a fan to be honest. It's just my opinion but the dial indicators have always been junk. I never liked the "feel" of the  mics (now worse than ever) and never like the dial calipers for various reasons. What do you think?


I agree with what you are saying.  Starrett tools are almost always usable, not junk out of the box, but I agree about the mic. feel and the indicator quality.  I have several Starrett indicators, one new in the box, and none of them are my "go to" indicators.  They certainly work and can do the job, though. They just lack soul, especially the newer ones.  Of course, no new tool has the soul of a true classic or antique which has survived and lives on!  No doubt there are many Starrett lovers out there yelling at us...


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## Dan_S (Apr 12, 2017)

To me Starrett is a mixed bag, some stuff is good, some stuff is excellent. Pricing is similar, some stuff is middle of the road, and some stuff is exorbitant compared to it's competitors.


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## Finster (Apr 12, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> I agree with what you are saying.  Starrett tools are almost always usable, not junk out of the box, but I agree about the mic. feel and the indicator quality.  I have several Starrett indicators, one new in the box, and none of them are my "go to" indicators.  They certainly work and can do the job, though. They just lack soul, especially the newer ones.  Of course, no new tool has the soul of a true classic or antique which has survived and lives on!  No doubt there are many Starrett lovers out there yelling at us...


LOL... yea, I figured I would liven things up a bit. Kinda like a Ford /  Chevy debate.


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## pstemari (Apr 12, 2017)

Which mic? Starrett makes 3 lines of plain old vernier mics. The 226 series is noticably better that the entry level 436.   The 232 & 2 are very nice.

Carbide faces are definitely worth the extra $.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Ed ke6bnl (Apr 12, 2017)

I see starrett like I see snap on.  I can't afford it and usually I sell them off for more to my hobby level brand I can justify. just picked up a Suburban tool grinding vice and a set of Suburban 10 piece angle block set at the swapmeet like new cond. way more then I need and can get many items with the sale of those two pieces. This may not be the way to go for others but I am retired on a fixed income and this helps me play. I have sold  lot of SnapOn replaced with many Harbor Freight tools Not a flame just my opinion. I wish I could afford the best and all I wanted.


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## Finster (Apr 12, 2017)

pstemari said:


> Which mic? Starrett makes 3 lines of plain old vernier mics. The 226 series is noticably better that the entry level 436.   The 232 & 2 are very nice.
> 
> Carbide faces are definitely worth the extra $.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


I've tried them all with the same opinion. Again, not brow beating, just my opinion but to me it's something in the threads or whatever. The anvil and carbide or not, makes no difference from what I have "felt".


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## Rustrp (Apr 12, 2017)

Finster said:


> I've tried them all with the same opinion. Again, not brow beating, just my opinion but to me it's something in the threads or whatever. The anvil and carbide or not, makes no difference from what I have "felt".


Me thinks it's your touch. When was it last calibrated? 

Edit; Everything I own that's Starrett is decades old so there's no comparison to what someone produces today.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 12, 2017)

The old stuff that I have scored I like. New stuff is too rich for me.


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## ghostdncr (Apr 12, 2017)

I'm old enough to remember when Starrett was still color-case hardening many of their tools, but were slowly transitioning over to black oxide in its place. That has always struck me as the point in time when the bean counters took over and the company moved swiftly to becoming a shell of its former self. I've still got several of those old color-cased tools I bought brand new as a struggling young machinist and can't imagine ever wanting anything more in their place. The current stuff strikes me as being mostly well-deburred Chinese stuff at a premium price.


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## Finster (Apr 12, 2017)

I don't know about you guys but so far I find my poll interesting, for the few that responded. I expected Starrett to get much higher marks despite my own opinion.


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## Finster (Apr 12, 2017)

ghostdncr said:


> I'm old enough to remember when Starrett was still color-case hardening many of their tools.


 You're OLD!


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## ghostdncr (Apr 12, 2017)

Finster said:


> You're OLD!



Thanks. Just what I needed to hear.  

It really wasn't that long ago. This would've been sometime in the early 90's if I've got my time frame right.


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## Finster (Apr 12, 2017)

ghostdncr said:


> Thanks. Just what I needed to hear.
> 
> It really wasn't that long ago. This would've been sometime in the early 90's if I've got my time frame right.


I believe you are correct but I just wanted to bust someone's stones and the wife would beat me up if I did it to her.


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## Rustrp (Apr 12, 2017)

Finster said:


> I don't know about you guys but so far I find my poll interesting, for the few that responded. I expected Starrett to get much higher marks despite my own opinion.


The same could be said about 100+ American corporations who chose greed over quality, along with the millions who support their position. When we think of the big rigs rolling down the major highways of America do we think Kenworth or Peterbilt  Romania, Bulgaria? The least we could do is give Starrett credit for attempting to have some sense of quality control. The entire economy of the eastern seaboard was decimated by Americans willing to by cheap imports. Name the tool manufacturers who closed their doors and moved to China in order to support the stock holders. Most of the people who lost their jobs were machinists, not Hobby-Machinists, but machinist who supported their families by making a decent living making quality tools and were proud of it.


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## Bob Korves (Apr 13, 2017)

Finster said:


> You're OLD!


I am old, too, and so are my nice old tools, Starrett, B & S, Lufkin, Union Tool, and others.  I got them much more recently from the estates of other geezers who passed on or gave it up, cleaned them up, checked and calibrated them, and put them back to work.  I find that a win, win for everyone.  Seriously, I find the old tools bearing the names or initials of men who have passed on to have much more soul than tools bought new, no matter how expensive or shiny or how 'top brand' they might be considered by others.  I smile more when I pick up the well used old tools, and think about those old boys...

If I was an apprentice I would also look for used tools.  Nothing says novice more than shiny new tools in pristine boxes that do not show any usage.


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## Rustrp (Apr 13, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> If I was an apprentice I would also look for used tools. Nothing says novice more than shiny new tools in pristine boxes that do not show any usage.



Thanks for the chuckle.I knew he was using his Dad's tools who also happened to be the business agent, but me being me had to ask; So exactly how long have you been an apprentice?


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## fitterman1 (Apr 13, 2017)

I bought a Starret machinists level 3o yrs ago, model 133A, said made in Brazil on the box label. Put this on a surface plate a couple yrs ago and discovered it had warped. Its still in the box.
I ended up buying an accurate bubble level and made my own. I don't trust anyones tools anymore until I verify them in one way or another.


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## Finster (Apr 13, 2017)

Just about all of my stuff is used. For mic's I always liked Browne and Sharpe much more than Starrett.  For me, they just have a nicer feel. Now, I'm talking about the older Swiss ones here. My 6" calipers are TESA. and I love them, they are the best dial calipers I have ever picked up. I am always on the lookout for more of them. I have an old set of Lufkin inside Mic's they are fairly nice. For indicators, I have many different ones. Give me an old indicator any day over the new ones. Not many companies make good indicators anymore. To find a good "new" indicator, in my opinion, you have to go Swiss. They are big bucks but they are the best you can get. Compac, Intrepid and the Swiss "Best Test" under the Browne and Sharp name are some of the best. Again, in my opinion.


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## Finster (Apr 13, 2017)

fitterman1 said:


> I bought a Starret machinists level 3o yrs ago, model 133A, said made in Brazil on the box label. Put this on a surface plate a couple yrs ago and discovered it had warped. Its still in the box.
> I ended up buying an accurate bubble level and made my own. I don't trust anyones tools anymore until I verify them in one way or another.


That sucks. Not joking here, I wonder if they would take it back? I'm thinking it was Warped from the beginning. Even if it wasn't something like that should never warp. If not, could you maybe lapp it?


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## Mach89 (Apr 13, 2017)

I feel as though Starrett has good tools, but I'm not a huge fan of them. As with any other company, some tools are going to be better than others, but I use their OD mics regularly at work and don't care much for them. Not that they aren't high quality. I just don't like the feel of them.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 13, 2017)

I just scored a couple of really nice old lufkin mics in their original wooden boxes, very nice indeed. And one older starret mic too.


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## Finster (Apr 13, 2017)

My above being said about indicators. I have in fact had good luck with "Mahr Federal" indicators. I have a couple that are new in the box, I do not know how old they are however. They are accurate and very repeatable. This is NOT the "Federal" only name. There is a big difference in my opinion. I think this is kind of an unknown gem in the indicator world. If you try to buy a Mahr-Federal new, they are pretty expensive. However, I have found them brand new at auction on E-bay (hardly if ever used)  and they usually go cheap, really cheap. I'm not sure why, maybe people see the "Federal" name and figure it's junk (rightfully so) but from what I has seen and own, there is a big difference. Heck, they even weigh twice as much. I really like them for the money.


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## woodchucker (Apr 13, 2017)

Finster said:


> My above being said about indicators. I have in fact had good luck with "Mahr Federal" indicators. I have a couple that are new in the box, I do not know how old they are however. They are accurate and very repeatable. This is NOT the "Federal" only name. There is a big difference in my opinion. I think this is kind of an unknown gem in the indicator world. If you try to buy a Mahr-Federal new, they are pretty expensive. However, I have found them brand new at auction on E-bay (hardly if ever used)  and they usually go cheap, really cheap. I'm not sure why, maybe people see the "Federal" name and figure it's junk (rightfully so) but from what I has seen and own, there is a big difference. Heck, they even weigh twice as much. I really like them for the money.


Why do you consider Old federal junk? I have bestest and federal..  my 1/10 thou federals measure up to my bestest
So what makes them junk ?


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## Nogoingback (Apr 13, 2017)

Rustrp said:


> The same could be said about 100+ American corporations who chose greed over quality, along with the millions who support their position. When we think of the big rigs rolling down the major highways of America do we think Kenworth or Peterbilt  Romania, Bulgaria? The least we could do is give Starrett credit for attempting to have some sense of quality control. The entire economy of the eastern seaboard was decimated by Americans willing to by cheap imports. Name the tool manufacturers who closed their doors and moved to China in order to support the stock holders. Most of the people who lost their jobs were machinists, not Hobby-Machinists, but machinist who supported their families by making a decent living making quality tools and were proud of it.



And of course, when American corporations sent manufacturing overseas, they also stopped buying the tools needed to manufacture things.  I imagine this had a much greater impact on Starret and other tool companies
than the buying habits of a few Hobby Machinists.



Bob Korves said:


> I am old, too, and so are my nice old tools, Starrett, B & S, Lufkin, Union Tool, and others.  I got them much more recently from the estates of other geezers who passed on or gave it up, cleaned them up, checked and calibrated them, and put them back to work.  I find that a win, win for everyone.  Seriously, I find the old tools bearing the names or initials of men who have passed on to have much more soul than tools bought new, no matter how expensive or shiny or how 'top brand' they might be considered by others.  I smile more when I pick up the well used old tools, and think about those old boys...



But having said that, we are all complicit in this.  How many of us have tools made overseas in our tool boxes?  Probably almost all of us.  And they don't have to be cheap tools.  I have Mitutoyo calipers, and an older Tesa
micrometer in my box, and they are hardly junk.  And, NOT to pick on you Bob, because I like the old tools too, but when we buy used tools in preference to new, we "hurt" domestic companies like Starret just as
much as if we bought something from HF.

And, of course during the years when Starret and other American tool companies were going strong, (say the late 40's and the 50's), there wasn't any significant overseas competition at all and  Europe and Asia were still
digging themselves out of the rubble of WWII.  But, we all know how that played out.  How many of us have a Honda in the driveway?  Maybe companies like Starret will have make sure they don't make the same mistake
the the domestic car companies made: letting the bean counters focus on cost above all else, and forgetting that to compete, a company still has to make products that people want to buy.  It took GM management
several decades to figure that one out.  I work for a company like that, and the bean counters are slowly, but relentlessly damaging our product and our reputation.  But, the senior exec's
are getting massive bonuses as a result, so it's all good...


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## Bob Korves (Apr 13, 2017)

woochucker said:


> Why do you consider Old federal junk? I have bestest and federal..  my 1/10 thou federals measure up to my bestest
> So what makes them junk ?


I think there might be new indicators out there labeled Federal, which are not from the same source as the classic Federal indicators, and are not the same quality.  I do agree that the older Federal indicators are good quality.


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## Bob Korves (Apr 13, 2017)

Nogoingback said:


> And of course, when American corporations sent manufacturing overseas, they also stopped buying the tools needed to manufacture things.  I imagine this had a much greater impact on Starret and other tool companies
> than the buying habits of a few Hobby Machinists.
> 
> 
> ...


No offense taken.  I do not buy in to the "consumption" scheme that fuels the world today.  If I can make something last forever, I do.  If I can repair, re-purpose, or rehab old stuff, I will, unashamed, in fact quite proud of it.  I live incredibly cheap compared to those who 'need' the latest and greatest (ha!) stuff.  Wealth can be gained by taking from others or by not needing to take from others.  I choose the latter where possible.  Sorry, I am getting off topic here...


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## Reeltor (Apr 13, 2017)

I won't vote in the pole because I don't have any "new" Starrett  tools.  I do have some very old Starretts and some brand new old stock tools.  In general I think these older tools are very good quality and priced accordingly for the time.  Pricy, but when isn't something of quality expensive?  I can't comment on their tools of recent manufacture. 
Regarding the older stuff, they just have a nice feel to them.  I have a few calipers, some inexpensive General and a few old Starretts.  They both do the same thing but the Starret ones just feel better in the hand.


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## frugalguido (Apr 13, 2017)

I think one of Starrett's problems in todays world is that they still try to make every kind of machinist tool instead of concentrating on a few tools that they can make well.  Look at their catalog,they make everything and I am not sure on some of the items  how many that they even sell. I have one of their electronic calipers and the thing is junk compared to my Mitutoyo. I don't have a problem with paying for a high priced quality tool, but it better be the best out there.


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## Finster (Apr 13, 2017)

woochucker said:


> Why do you consider Old federal junk? I have bestest and federal..  my 1/10 thou federals measure up to my bestest
> So what makes them junk ?


I was talking about the new Federal indicators. Not the old ones. Old USA made indicators were, for the most part, decent quality. I have old Federals, Ames even an old Gem still going strong. You're not going to find that quality in those names anymore. It's all outsourced and mostly to Asian countries like China.


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## Finster (Apr 13, 2017)

frugalguido said:


> I think one of Starrett's problems in todays world is that they still try to make every kind of machinist tool instead of concentrating on a few tools that they can make well.  Look at their catalog,they make everything and I am not sure on some of the items  how many that they even sell. I have one of their electronic calipers and the thing is junk compared to my Mitutoyo. I don't have a problem with paying for a high priced quality tool, but it better be the best out there.


Starrett is outsourcing a lot of it's tools also. They, like many others, have discovered China and in my opinion, not for the better. I believe that you will start paying for the name and not the quality. For the price of Starrett tooling, I see no reason that everything can't be made in the USA. Other than maybe greed. I do not own a single "new" Starrett tool. However, I use new Starrett tooling every day for work. I'm not impressed.


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## Rustrp (Apr 14, 2017)

Nogoingback said:


> And, NOT to pick on you Bob, because I like the old tools too, but when we buy used tools in preference to new, we "hurt" domestic companies like Starret just as
> much as if we bought something from HF.


I think this is more than a stretch if we are discussing global economy. Buying and selling new and used, barter and trade, has and always will be part of our economy. HF is the section or slice of our economy based on no deposit, no return and the thought that goes along with; It's so cheap it doesn't matter if it works, works like it's supposed too, or if I throw it away. Starrett tools were based on quality, built to last and was the backbone of America's economy, along with many other machine tool companies. Buying a quality tool is an investment and buying an old tool is purchasing equity, someones investment. Starrett, along with many other companies are competing with CNC production of products, in a labor pool of machine operators, who will never be machinists. I'm not against trade in the global market, but I'm not happy with how it's done or how it's affected middle American jobs. In regards to precision and quality, many Americans are disillusioned when it comes to us having the market cornered on quality and precision and they look west (far east) for the answers.

The irony that exists within the walls of HF is frightening. American corporations send jobs to China/offshore, etc. and have the cheapest, poorest quality products manufactured by cheap labor, costing American jobs. The same folks who lost their jobs walk back into HF and purchase the product only to spend hours making it function or improving on the design so it functions better. Yes, the same design and quality that was stripped so it could be manufactured cheaply.


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## Doubleeboy (Apr 14, 2017)

As most of us here have not bought a lot of recent Starrett tools, I think this poll is flawed.  Garbage in Garbage out so to speak.   I have always like Starrett tools except for the last word indicator.  Last year I got frustrated with my import telescoping gages, they were about the same as my more expensive USA built PEC gages.  So I sucked it up got out the credit card and bought Starrett, made in USA, much rougher operating than my import ones that cost ten cents on dollar compared to Starrett.  That is not to say all Starrett stuff is garbage, but I sure found one instance.  Luckily I have most of the measuring tools I will need for the rest of my life, but if I was in market , just starting out, I would look to European made stuff or even the SPI branded import.  I notice Shars is starting to go after more up market price point and specs, be interesting to see how the quality and support down the road work out.

So my vote would be , older well taken care of Starrett, great stuff, with exception of Last Word, other than that buyer beware, the game has changed.


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## Bob Korves (Apr 14, 2017)

Doubleeboy said:


> As most of us here have not bought a lot of recent Starrett tools, I think this poll is flawed.  Garbage in Garbage out so to speak.   I have always like Starrett tools except for the last word indicator.  Last year I got frustrated with my import telescoping gages, they were about the same as my more expensive USA built PEC gages.  So I sucked it up got out the credit card and bought Starrett, made in USA, much rougher operating than my import ones that cost ten cents on dollar compared to Starrett.  That is not to say all Starrett stuff is garbage, but I sure found one instance.  Luckily I have most of the measuring tools I will need for the rest of my life, but if I was in market , just starting out, I would look to European made stuff or even the SPI branded import.  I notice Shars is starting to go after more up market price point and specs, be interesting to see how the quality and support down the road work out.
> 
> So my vote would be , older well taken care of Starrett, great stuff, with exception of Last Word, other than that buyer beware, the game has changed.


I have had just about zero luck buying "quality Chinese tools".   I pay the higher price, but get the same crap shoot chance of getting a good product.  Don't get me wrong, some of the Chinese tools have been quite nice, but not due to what I paid for them or where I bought them, only luck of the draw, as near as I can tell.  I am pretty sure that the reason is that quality control and quality assurance are not part of the process in China, at least not on the types of stuff we buy.  Everything that makes it down the assembly line WILL go in a box and get sold.  It would be nice if all that could change, they would be well accepted if that happened.  The savings on labor costs for their products more than makes up for the boat ride here.  Putting a bit into QC and QA could make them highly regarded, wildly successful, and taken seriously.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 14, 2017)

Over the years I have seen some chinese products improving in quality. I think they figured out that they needed to step up the game, or more than likely the american retailer that buys the stuff has said hey you need to pick up the quality of your product because it is not selling.


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## Bob Korves (Apr 14, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> Over the years I have seen some chinese products improving in quality. I think they figured out that they needed to step up the game, or more than likely the american retailer that buys the stuff has said hey you need to pick up the quality of your product because it is not selling.


Yes.  Overall they have been improving with time, on average.  There is still quite a bit of junk -- and some treasures.


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## Finster (Apr 14, 2017)

Well, let me tell you a little story. Years ago I was a maintenance man for a factory and in charge of keeping up the machines. A lot of bearing making and bushing turning with that job but I digress. This place made slivers of steel to put in concrete instead of rebar for sidewalks and such. The idiot that owned the company (his daddy gave it to him) was over in China on some tour. He came across a plant that made the same thing. He finally managed to buy it somehow. The first thing he did was fire everyone and put heat and lights in the building. He then rehired the supervisors and found out who the best workers were and hired them back. He doubled their wages. Guess what he was paying......... $1 a day and they were happy as hell! Now this was in the 90's but still, how can you compete with that in the USA. There is a reason that a knockoff is 1/5th the price. Unskilled, very cheap labor.  Add to that substandard materials and design, it's no wonder they are selling things so cheap.

P.S. Starrett is outsourcing some production to that country now........ What do you think you are paying for?  The name in those instances, that is all.


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## pstemari (Apr 15, 2017)

Starrett does have their own factories in China, but they clearly label the import stuff in the catalog. There's a recent video on YouTube with a Starrett factory tour in Athol and it's amazing how much hand finishing work goes into their products.

Frankly I'd expect most of Starrett's attention to go to the CMM equipment and other cutting edge stuff.

I've got a good mixture of new and used Starrett equipment and haven't had any issues. That said, I loathe electronic tools and tend to buy old-school items—last word, actual dial indicators, master vernier calipers, etc.

New:

Forged combination squares, full-size & junior
Scales
Adjustable parallels
Punches
Surface gages
T230XRL mic
T226XRL mics, 2" & 3"
Wiggler set
Last word DTI
Fay dividers and calipers (right before they were discontinued)
Drill point gage
Indicator clamps
Edge finder
98 machinist's level
V-blocks

Used

Engineers squares
Master vernier height gage
Master vernier calipers
T2 mic
226 4" mic
575 thread mics
Rule stand
Rule right-angle holder
Back plunger indicator (the newer one, not the 196)
Dial indicators
Toolmakers clamps
Uni-mic
Depth mic
Dividers and calipers (Fay and the toolmakers)
Drill gages
Croblox/Steel gage block set
Bench block
Ground indicator holder
Indicator stands
Parallels
199 Master level
Toolmakers buttons
More v-blocks

I should buy more new US-made stuff. If you buy everything used, you have no room to complain about companies importing.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## eeler1 (Apr 15, 2017)

I recently got some new starrett pin vises, and can't tell the difference between them and a cheap chinese brand I had bought a few years  back.  Can't afford other new starret stuff, generally, but love the old stuff I've picked up over the years.   In fact, seems just about any old US made tool feels pretty good to me.  Some of the asian stuff is ok, some not.  I guess they don't always  copy perfectly.


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## Finster (Apr 15, 2017)

pstemari said:


> That said, I loathe electronic tools and tend to buy old-school items


I agree here. I don't know much about digital mics, calipers and others buy I can say that I will never trust them. Heck, I still use veneer calipers all the time. I find it hard at times to trust dials without measuring for repeatability. Yea, I don't own a single digital measuring device. I don't need it and don't want it.


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## fitterman1 (Apr 15, 2017)

Finster said:


> That sucks. Not joking here, I wonder if they would take it back? I'm thinking it was Warped from the beginning. Even if it wasn't something like that should never warp. If not, could you maybe lapp it?



I doubt whether they would take it back, the warpage is diagonally across the two ends, ie corner to corner. I found it odd that it did this, so I'm assuming it stress relieved itself after machining. Made of cast iron which does warp, especially long and narrow objects, I'd say there was a short lead time between casting and machining.
Yes,I will attempt scraping the base rather than lapping. The difficult part is mating the flats to the involute curves to maintain relationship with the bubble.


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## Green Frog (Apr 15, 2017)

All of my Starrett stuff is at least 25-30 years old at minimum, and if cared for and used properly it will be ready for my grand nephews to use when they inherit it (they are 8 and 10 now.)  The only "new" Starrett items I've bought in the last 5 years were some pin punches that were seconds I bought at a gun show... they're pin punches, so I only expect so much!

Froggie


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## Herbert (Apr 15, 2017)

Two weeks ago I sent my 196B1, back plunger in for repair at their direction.  The plunger was sticking and I thought it should be looked at by the manufacturer.  I heard nothing back so contacted them yesterday.  They responded, said they had the indicator and would get back to me in the next week with an estimate.   Not 10 minutes later I got another message with a bill in the $70.00+ area with another tax of some $4.00 along with an additional $10.00 return shipping.  How is that possible, not checked and then this huge amount some 10 minutes later.  They didn't check it, they gave me their "dog and pony" quote which probably goes to many others and I know all they will do is lubricate the plunger which I could do without them.  Point is, they are not better or worse then most industry today.  In my case;...gave an explanation of my resentment to their tactic and gave them permission to deposit the indicator where it won't get hurt in the future.  In my opinion, no more Starrett.  To many other choices now who don't exist by their Name-Brand reputation of long ago.


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## Downunder Bob (Apr 15, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> I am old, too, and so are my nice old tools, Starrett, B & S, Lufkin, Union Tool, and others.  I got them much more recently from the estates of other geezers who passed on or gave it up, cleaned them up, checked and calibrated them, and put them back to work.  I find that a win, win for everyone.  Seriously, I find the old tools bearing the names or initials of men who have passed on to have much more soul than tools bought new, no matter how expensive or shiny or how 'top brand' they might be considered by others.  I smile more when I pick up the well used old tools, and think about those old boys...
> 
> If I was an apprentice I would also look for used tools.  Nothing says novice more than shiny new tools in pristine boxes that do not show any usage.



As another older guy, I acquired a few nice tools when I was an apprentice 1960 to 66. a mixture of Moore & Wright and Starrett. i still have them, but have been unused for the last 40 years, The micrometer needs dismantling and cleaning, the oil has dried up,  Otherwise they are in excellent condition.


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## ewkearns (Apr 15, 2017)

Year, 1977:

Mitutoyo Combitest $44.00

Starrett Last Word $95.50

Nothing has really changed.....


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## Ken Mach (Apr 15, 2017)

I haven't bought a New Starret tool in the last 10 years or so but when I was buying tools during my career the drop off in quality of Starret tools became quite noticeable. I assume it was their attempt to compete with cheaper import tools. The same is true for Mitutoyo.


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## Bob Korves (Apr 15, 2017)

I have quite a few Starrett tools.  None of them were bought new.  Same with the B & S stuff, and the Lufkin stuff.  Same with my machines.  Most all of them are over 30 years old.  I am not beholding to any manufacturer or politician.  If anybody chooses to put their nice old tools in the scrap metal bin and buy some new and mostly inferior ones to prop up the economy and businesses who cannot figure out how to achieve and maintain success, I support your right to do so.  Just please let me 'recycle' your 'scrap metal.'


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## Nogoingback (Apr 15, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> I have had just about zero luck buying "quality Chinese tools".   I pay the higher price, but get the same crap shoot chance of getting a good product.  Don't get me wrong, some of the Chinese tools have been quite nice, but not due to what I paid for them or where I bought them, only luck of the draw, as near as I can tell.  I am pretty sure that the reason is that quality control and quality assurance are not part of the process in China, at least not on the types of stuff we buy.  Everything that makes it down the assembly line WILL go in a box and get sold.  It would be nice if all that could change, they would be well accepted if that happened.  The savings on labor costs for their products more than makes up for the boat ride here.  Putting a bit into QC and QA could make them highly regarded, wildly successful, and taken seriously.



There are two problems here.  There's nothing anyone can do about the huge difference in  wages between Third World Countries and the USA.  It's just a fact.  But when US companies like Starrett and Jacobs shift production
to those countries, they don't have to cheapen their products.  With training and decent process controls, they can save money and still  make stuff overseas as good as what they made here.  If they did that, everyone would grumble
about the loss of American jobs, but their reputation would remain intact and we would still buy their stuff.  But when they cut the quality, that opens the door for competitors of all kinds.  Look at what Mitutoyo has done.  They
build their tools in Asia, but they seem to keep their quality up, and as a result they have a good reputation, (and they sell lots of tools to people that used to buy Starrett).    Apple builds their stuff in China, but they make sure the quality stays high as well.  The problem really comes down to the business school/bean counter mentality that has no regard for quality, just numbers.  Reminds me of the definition of an accountant:  Someone that knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.  (With apologies to any accountants that
might be reading this...).


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## Bob Korves (Apr 15, 2017)

Nogoingback said:


> There are two problems here.  There's nothing anyone can do about the huge difference in  wages between Third World Countries and the USA.  It's just a fact.  But when US companies like Starrett and Jacobs shift production
> to those countries, they don't have to cheapen their products.  With training and decent process controls, they can save money and still  make stuff overseas as good as what they made here.  If they did that, everyone would grumble
> about the loss of American jobs, but their reputation would remain intact and we would still buy their stuff.  But when they cut the quality, that opens the door for competitors of all kinds.  Look at what Mitutoyo has done.  They
> build their tools in Asia, but they seem to keep their quality up, and as a result they have a good reputation, (and they sell lots of tools to people that used to buy Starrett).    Apple builds their stuff in China, but they make sure the quality stays high as well.  The problem really comes down to the business school/bean counter mentality that has no regard for quality, just numbers.  Reminds me of the definition of an accountant:  Someone that knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.  (With apologies to any accountants that
> might be reading this...).


Very good comments.


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## markso125 (Apr 15, 2017)

Mitutoyo has always been Asian, personally I have never been impressed with any of their tools especially their dial calipers (I have an 8" Mitutoyo dial caliper it was cheap I needed one). I must admit I kind of walked into Mitutoyo with a bad attitude, first shop I worked in it is a pretty good size job shop, I packed all of my tools in to the building, most of them were pawn shop tools or estate sale tools. The guy that hired me asked me if I had any Mitutoyos in my tool box, I said I had a few and his response was "Take them home we don't make scrap parts here" He was a little old man ( well old to me at the time) In a blue shop coat that kept all of his tools in a Gerstner and had been machining since the Korean war.
I have had to use Mitutoyos for years depending on the company, most of the ISO 9001/ AS9100 certified companies provided their own tools because they could keep track of them and maintain constant calibration to meet ISO standards. The large companies would buy Mitutoyos because they were cheaper then the Brown & Sharpe/ Starrett counterparts and they were on the traceable manufacturers list so from a bean counters perspective it is a better choice when you are buying 100+ micrometers at a time to buy the ones that are 5% cheaper. Also and somewhat ironically in my dealings several of those companies I have had the pleasure to work for have banned digital gauges for the simple fact it is to easy to accidently rezero the readout and make bad parts. When your average part is $1000+ USD and you find you scrap out 20+ parts a month because someone re-zeroed the micrometer .005 off of zero and they ran 10 parts before they checked it again, yes even old machinists made this mistake.

That being said, I do have new Starrett micrometers in my classroom, and I have old Starrett micrometers in my toolbox, I like my old micrometers a lot better, not because the quality, because the quality is just as good between the two, I like the older design better then the new ones, I know why they changed designs because it is cheaper/easier to produce. That being said, the same quality is there, between the two, they still have the same weight and feel just as rigid. I have a set of Mitutoyos and a set of Fowlers in my classroom and the Fowlers are exactly the same as the HF ones you can run down and buy, they even come in the same plastic case, they just have a premium price over the HF ones. The Mitutoyo micrometers still have the same stupid plastic spindle lock that always gets broken off, and the same craptacular ratchet mechanism, they are not brand new, they are about 4 years old, but the new ones you look up in the tool supply are the same as the old ones. I have seen the same problem in Mitutoyos I have for years, its kind of sad when you buy a dial caliper from them and it comes with a dial reset tool in the box because it will loose accuracy.






But I think it is what you are comfortable with, I use Starrett micrometers, Hexagon metrology calipers and finger indicators (hexagon owns Brown & Sharpe, Eatalon, Interapid, Tesa and some others). A lot of it is the feel of it. if you don't like the feel when you pick up the tool you wont like the tool no matter how high quality it is. Look at Brown & Sharpe micrometers, they are great micrometers, maintain good accuracy and are well built, but I hate the feel of them so I wont buy them.


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## pjs (Apr 15, 2017)

I bought a new #134 cross test level and it is so far off as to be unusable. I have dollar store levels that are superior to this.


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## Millalot (Apr 16, 2017)

ghostdncr said:


> I'm old enough to remember when Starrett was still color-case hardening many of their tools, but were slowly transitioning over to black oxide in its place. That has always struck me as the point in time when the bean counters took over and the company moved swiftly to becoming a shell of its former self. I've still got several of those old color-cased tools I bought brand new as a struggling young machinist and can't imagine ever wanting anything more in their place. The current stuff strikes me as being mostly well-deburred Chinese stuff at a premium price.



Sorry no text was trying to put a photo of an old tool on web site but could not see how to do it.


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## claymont19703 (Apr 16, 2017)

Finster said:


> Starrett, the stuff goes for a small fortune. Now, the old stuff was fairly nice in my opinion. However, for this poll I'm only talking about the stuff they have today. Have you bought a new Starrett lately? What did you think overall? I was never a fan to be honest. It's just my opinion but the dial indicators have always been junk. I never liked the "feel" of the  mics (now worse than ever) and never like the dial calipers for various reasons. What do you think?



I basically used Starrett tools for the forty-five plus years I was in the industry; I was a millwright/outside-machinist.  I wouldn't  say I was a fanboy, but for most part, their products did what was expected of them. The only ones that could have been better were  the back plunger indicators, 196 I believe, and the 6" dial calipers. The indicators were treated as consumables, the dial calipers were sent back a couple of times for repair.  
At times they weren't the most up to date in their style and technology of their tooling, they were far from static in upgrading their technology when it needed to be.  Their products are pricey, but what quality precision product isn't.
Here's an interesting look at their plant:
Starrett Factory Tour


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## EmilioG (Apr 17, 2017)

Starrett makes a lot of good tools.  I pick and choose what I find is great quality for the price. It depends on the tool.
This poll doesn't cover all possible opinions, so it's hard to answer.  There are a lot of Starrett tools that just don't fit into today's
machining world. Almost obsolete.  Starrett may have to be more forward thinking if they want to survive.


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## Finster (Apr 17, 2017)

Well, the poll is landing where I figured it would. I am surprised that someone voted for the lowest ranking. I wonder if they were serious or messing around?


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## scwhite (Apr 17, 2017)

Finster said:


> Starrett, the stuff goes for a small fortune. Now, the old stuff was fairly nice in my opinion. However, for this poll I'm only talking about the stuff they have today. Have you bought a new Starrett lately? What did you think overall? I was never a fan to be honest. It's just my opinion but the dial indicators have always been junk. I never liked the "feel" of the  mics (now worse than ever) and never like the dial calipers for various reasons. What do you think?


I like all of my Starret tools but they are all old 
And work perfect. 
    I have not bought any new Starret tools in 
25 years .


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## RandyM (Apr 18, 2017)

pstemari said:


> I loathe electronic tools and tend to buy old-school items—last word, actual dial indicators, master vernier calipers, etc.





Finster said:


> I agree here. I don't know much about digital mics, calipers and others buy I can say that I will never trust them. Heck, I still use veneer calipers all the time. I find it hard at times to trust dials without measuring for repeatability. Yea, I don't own a single digital measuring device. I don't need it and don't want it.



 I am of the same mind guys. I don't necessarily loathe the electronic stuff, my beef is that they take power to operate and being a hobbyist the equipment may sit for months without being used. I really dislike feeding them with batteries. Bad batteries can ruin the equipment and are dead when you want to use them. I kind think a low battery can give you inaccurate readings as well. It's funny how digital can give some people a false sense of accuracy as well. OK, I feel better now.


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## ch2co (Apr 18, 2017)

I have to admit, guys, I have a lot of Starrett tools (compared to how many other brands that I have) that are all of high quality.
However I don't think that any of them is less than 30 years or more old. The only new Starrett thing that I have is a very nice drill/tap
size chart on my wall.


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## pstemari (Apr 18, 2017)

As I said, I've got a mixture of old and new, but the new stuff is fine if you avoid the bottom tier tools.

That said, 196 indicators don't work worth a damn—the new 650 BP indicator is a lot better.
 The Last Word is a very delicate design. The Interapid DTIs are a lot more robust, but difficult to read. 

For dial calipers I have B&S/Tesa. Vernier calipers, one rather cheesy Mitu and a beautiful  Starrett master. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Finster (Apr 18, 2017)

pstemari said:


> As I said, I've got a mixture of old and new, but the new stuff is fine if you avoid the bottom tier tools.
> 
> That said, 196 indicators don't work worth a damn—the new 650 BP indicator is a lot better.
> The Last Word is a very delicate design. The Interapid DTIs are a lot more robust, but difficult to read.
> ...


Like I stated before, in my opinion, TESA makes the best  dial calipers going today. In fact, I just picked up another 6" pair on E-bay this morning for a little under $50 as a backup.  I just love them. I've never used calipers that were that accurate or felt that good until I discovered TESA. I have set of 12" Helios veneer's. I picked them up cheap and they are very old ones. They seem pretty good and I think they are before Helios started making crap? I'm keeping my eyes out for 12" TESA dials if I can ever find a set at a good price but they don't go cheap. For as much as I use 12" calipers, veneer's will get me by.


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## Randy Forbes (May 1, 2017)

Starrett is to me what diamonds are to women;_ jewelry for men_ is how I've long referred to Starrett tools (and yes, I have a fair amount of them to back that up).


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## EmilioG (May 1, 2017)

Most of my Starrett tools are the older and vintage tools.   Starrett makes some great tools; V blocks, gage blocks, anvil mike,
combination squares,tap wrenches, rules, protractors, depth mics, etc...But the new tools are hit and miss. I think the QC is gone from yesteryear.
I think there was a day when a tool didn't leave the factory unless it was dead on prefect. They can't afford to scrap tools anymore with the 
salaries they pay to tool makers. It's really sad.  I have a few, new Starrett tools that were well made generally, but the tolerances were off.

My new Starrett carbide scriber wouldn't hold unless I cranked down on it. The collet was too loose by .001 or so.  I wrote to Starrett about and never heard back.
They just said, "return to whence it came".    Still, I have to say, that Starrett has done right by me many times. They repaired a vernier protractor for me, free of charge!
They've sent me free tools.  It's the QC dept. that needs some scrutiny I think.  So I buy the NOS Starrett mostly. The time when precision gages came in a nice wood box.

The dividers and spring calipers are top notch. Tap wrenches still nice. But so much is outsourced now.  Say in ain't so Starrett.
The mics, calipers and indicators and new depth mics are not as well made anymore.  The parallels are awesome (very $$$$).  I'll be watching to see where they go.
I would hate to see such a legendary toolmaker disappear from the USA market. Not to mention the jobs in Athol.


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## Bob Korves (May 1, 2017)

All my Starrett tools were acquired used.  I have never bought a new Starrett tool.  I have quite a few, and the quality is very good.  These tools are old, probably none less than 25 years old.  The new ones I see for sale online, same part number as I have, are only shadows of the old tools.  It can be seen in the photos.  If they are looking to stay in business, they are not doing anything that might attract me to buy something they currently make.  The price vs. quality equation just does not justify purchasing them, and they also have lost the beauty of their older tools.

Edit:  In my case they are competing with their former self and losing.


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## crazypj (May 1, 2017)

I was going to vote but have no experience of the 'new' Starrett  . 
I have a depth mic and a 0-1" I bought over 40+yrs ago. Depth mic still looks exactly the same as when I bought it and 0-1 has just a few chips in the frame paint. (and case is dented)
0-1" hasn't been checked (precision instrument check) since 1995 when it was 'dead on' 
I found Polish made micrometers were pretty good (and real cheap)


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## EmilioG (May 1, 2017)

There are plenty of good, well made, new Starrett tools, they reflect 2017 prices. Not everyone can afford them. Some just don't make sense to me, like the 196b back plunger and the Last Word.
These are antiques today. 

The Webber gage blocks, vernier protractor,planer gage, parallels, V blocks, and many others are very good, still today.   I haven't written Starrett off just yet.


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## Bob Korves (May 1, 2017)

Here is the world I live in for tool buying...
The video is created by Dennis Noland, who designs cutting tools for Niagara Tools, and is also a hobby machinist:




NEVER pay retail!


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## ch2co (May 2, 2017)

But where do you find treasure chests like this?? I occasionally find a single item at an estate sale or rarely at a garage sale, but this many tools in one place
is unheard of in my short lifetime.

Grumpy old guy


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## Bob Korves (May 2, 2017)

ch2co said:


> But where do you find treasure chests like this?? I occasionally find a single item at an estate sale or rarely at a garage sale, but this many tools in one place
> is unheard of in my short lifetime.
> 
> Grumpy old guy


I have found at least half a dozen sales way better than that one.  The 60 degree and 72 degree micrometers are certainly useful to a guy who designs and tests 3 and 5 flute end mills, but not so much to the rest of us.  The best sales I have hit are where a family is selling off the lifetime collection of a father or grandfather and just want to get rid of the stuff so they can get back to playing with their phones.  Some of those are a penny on the dollar for beautiful tool collections.  Machines, too...  The number one rule is -- get there first with cash and without an attitude, and be friendly, kind, and accommodating.  The number 2 rule is -- make a deal quickly for everything you see that is quality stuff, even if you already have three of some of them.  Make it very easy for the seller to get rid of everything immediately to one buyer and be done with it.  Most auctions are a waste of time, too many people there who know what stuff is worth, and they can't keep themselves from over bidding on stuff...


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## scwhite (May 2, 2017)

Finster said:


> I agree here. I don't know much about digital mics, calipers and others buy I can say that I will never trust them. Heck, I still use veneer calipers all the time. I find it hard at times to trust dials without measuring for repeatability. Yea, I don't own a single digital measuring device. I don't need it and don't want it.


I am the same way I have no digital tools , and I don't trust my dial calipers . Vernier calipers with the 50 divisions on the vernier is the best . It will not fall you.


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## Bob Korves (May 2, 2017)

scwhite said:


> I am the same way I have no digital tools , and I don't trust my dial calipers . Vernier calipers with the 50 divisions on the vernier is the best . It will not fall you.


A vernier caliper will still be working long after the apocalypse, when all the fancy toys will be worthless.   Every machinist should have some vernier tools and the skills to use them quickly and accurately, if for nothing more than making a measurement after the battery went dead in your gee whiz digital toy.  Reality check:  digital measuring tools are damn useful when they are working...


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## Rustrp (May 2, 2017)

I have a Helios 6" vernier and 6" dial caliper and I use them both. I think eyesight gives precedence to dial calipers and large electronic numbers.


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## shootur44 (May 9, 2017)

Finster said:


> Just about all of my stuff is used. For mic's I always liked Browne and Sharpe much more than Starrett.  For me, they just have a nicer feel. Now, I'm talking about the older Swiss ones here. My 6" calipers are TESA. and I love them, they are the best dial calipers I have ever picked up. I am always on the lookout for more of them. I have an old set of Lufkin inside Mic's they are fairly nice. For indicators, I have many different ones. Give me an old indicator any day over the new ones. Not many companies make good indicators anymore. To find a good "new" indicator, in my opinion, you have to go Swiss. They are big bucks but they are the best you can get. Compac, Intrepid and the Swiss "Best Test" under the Browne and Sharp name are some of the best. Again, in my opinion.



I have to agree with you completely and I just LUV MY BROWN AND SHARP 90% of the time just feel better.  But as you say that's my opinion - like wrenches to me a SnapOn wrench and Ratchet just have a much better fit and feel in my hands and I am a retired master BMW, Saab, Honda Master Technician / and now getting into the machining.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RIMSPOKE (May 10, 2017)

STARRETT HAS BEEN PROCLAIMED  , THE WORLD'S BEST TOOLMAKERS ! 
IT SAYS SO RIGHT ON THEIR CATALOG . 

JOKING ASIDE , I HAVE HAD PLENTY OF STARRETT TOOLS . 
GENERALLY SPEAKING , THEY ARE OF HIGH QUALITY  . 

I THINK SOME OF MY EUROPEAN STUFF IS BETTER 
BUT THEY HAVE NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF . 

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THEY WERE MAKING STARRETT IN CHINA NOW 
SO THE OLD RULES MAY NOT APPLY .


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## Finster (May 10, 2017)

RIMSPOKE said:


> STARRETT HAS BEEN PROCLAIMED  , THE WORLD'S BEST TOOLMAKERS !
> IT SAYS SO RIGHT ON THEIR CATALOG .
> 
> JOKING ASIDE , I HAVE HAD PLENTY OF STARRETT TOOLS .
> ...


why are you shouting? LOL.....


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## Silverbullet (May 11, 2017)

Forty years ago they were tops , Brown & sharpe , federal , Ames , Scherer tumico, lufkin . All mostly American run companies ruled the top list. Now with all the import China stuff is taking the market by storm. What's that say about America , it tells me were selling our selves out . When the nafta trade act went thru sure started the downfall of the tradesman in America . Not trying to push any politics discussion . Just trying to explain the reason we don't have good American Made tools , there moving some tools to be made in China to save there business , they held out for a whole lot of years , but if we as a nation don't start producing products in reach of every person's income we can't survive .


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## Fabrickator (May 12, 2017)

Cadillac measuring tools.  By that, I mean they're probably my favorite American tools, but Mitutoyo's are great tools made in Brazil.  Most of the companies have been bought and sold and are made wherever nowadays, even Starrett.


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## Rustrp (May 12, 2017)

Silverbullet said:


> Forty years ago they were tops , Brown & sharpe , federal , Ames , Scherer tumico, lufkin . All mostly American run companies ruled the top list. Now with all the import China stuff is taking the market by storm. What's that say about America , it tells me were selling our selves out . When the nafta trade act went thru sure started the downfall of the tradesman in America . Not trying to push any politics discussion . Just trying to explain the reason we don't have good American Made tools , there moving some tools to be made in China to save there business , they held out for a whole lot of years , but if we as a nation don't start producing products in reach of every person's income we can't survive .



On your opening sentence I can agree but I would encourage you to Google NAFTA. I'm not looking for a response but misinformation is worse at times than no information at all.


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## fitterman1 (Feb 5, 2018)

Finster said:


> That sucks. Not joking here, I wonder if they would take it back? I'm thinking it was Warped from the beginning. Even if it wasn't something like that should never warp. If not, could you maybe lapp it?



I wouldn't lap it. Because it has an involute curved vee for sitting on round surfaces, the whole base needs to be remachined. Its the diagonally opposing corners on the flats that have become distorted, I would say from stress relieving itself. Which means it was machined too soon after casting in my opinion. I'll get around to it one day, its just that I made my own from a surveyors bubble thats good to 2 secs over 12" and has proven to be perfect.
cheers


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## markba633csi (Feb 5, 2018)

I have to say, I have some 10-12 year old "green stripe" hacksaw blades and they are some of the best I have ever used.  Only now starting to get dull and I've used them a lot.  Don't know if the new ones are as good since these lasted so long!  LOL


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