# Cutting  Round bar



## DANNYBOY (Mar 23, 2014)

I'm sure I've got this in the wrong forum so feel free to move it or let me know where to put it.:whiteflag: LOL

Anyway, Thought I'd ask the advice of the knowledgeable folks here. I'm cutting 7/8" Round bar 1" long I have been cutting a stick in 4 pieces and tacking it together and cutting it in the band saw. but it has a tendancy to strip teeth form time to time I'm using a lenox 10/14 bi-metal.I also stack 1x1x14ga.sq.tube, 3/4x3/4x11ga.sq.tube and 3/4 sch.40 pipe with no problems.

 Does anyone have a better idea for cutting this(chop saw,cold saw) or mabey a diffrent blade.

Thanks, Danny


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## Terrywerm (Mar 23, 2014)

I've got a hunch the tack welds are what are stripping the teeth from your bandsaw blades, but I don't know for certain just where you are tacking your rods together, so that could be an incorrect guess. I don't know how many pieces you have to cut, but you might be better off just cutting one bar at a time. 

Additionally, considering the size of the material you are cutting, you could probably use a blade with only 6 TPI or so. No matter what blade you use, you will need to start the cut slowly until you have about 3 teeth or more resting on the work, same thing with the last little bit of the cut. If your blade is hitting the work too hard or with too much cutting pressure, the start or end of the cut could be the problem.


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## DANNYBOY (Mar 23, 2014)

Thanks Wermie,

Their tacked on the end. One at a time is to slow 239 cuts argh!!
I'm thinking a chop saw.


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## Terrywerm (Mar 23, 2014)

If they are only tacked on the ends, the blade is not having to encounter the welds, so we can rule that out. It is probably at some point where there are not enough teeth on the work, such as when the blade is just starting into a new piece of stock or is just finishing a piece. For that brief bit of time the blade only has a couple of teeth on the work which could start stripping a couple of teeth off. Once it starts, it just keeps on going.... zzzzzzzzippp! 

I assume you are using a horizontal band saw. If you are standing your stack up and down in the saw vice, try laying the stack horizontally. This will increase the area of work that the teeth encounter. You will need to slow the feed rate appropriately, but you should be able to get one blade to cut all of the pieces that way. Just be extra careful getting the cut started on the first piece. Due to the angle of the blade to the work, when the blade first touches the work there will only be a couple of teeth on the work until the saw gets a good cut started. 

You could also try making your stack into a cubic arrangement. 

Instead of this:  
O
O
O
O

or this:
OOOO   

you would have this:
OO
OO

I don't know just how you have been stacking them, so maybe I'm not telling you anything new, but I am just passing on what I know would help.


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## DANNYBOY (Mar 23, 2014)

I've been doing 
oo
                                            oo

and going as slow as it will go I have a dake johnson modle j-10 saw


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## Terrywerm (Mar 23, 2014)

Dang, I don't know what else would be doing it. Unless chip loading is causing the blade to bind up. That's why I mentioned 6 TPI instead of 10-14 like you've been using. 10-14 is fine for thinner materials, but won't do when cutting through something broad. Do the teeth seem to strip off at the same point in the cut each time?  If so, at what point is it? Start, end, half way through the first stack, right at the end of the first stack/start of the second?   Something that points to a common denominator might be helpful.


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## DANNYBOY (Mar 23, 2014)

It seams to do it about 1/3 into the bottom stack like one of them is spinning or loose,I know their not cause their welded.

 I'm mostly courious if a cold saw is faster than a chop saw .  I can't stand 3 cuts for $50.00


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## Terrywerm (Mar 23, 2014)

A chop saw would be faster, but will burn the ends a bit and will waste more of your stock than a cold saw. A cold saw runs in coolant and the cutters are not cheap.  Cold saws are great in production environments where the cut off pieces go into another machining process, such as in a collet in a lathe. If not used regularly, you have the problems with the coolant going rancid, too. A chop saw will leave a rougher end, and converts a lot of metal into sparks, meaning you will have to leave a bit more metal for clean up during machining, but for hobby guys or small shops the chop saw may be the better route.


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## vapremac (Mar 23, 2014)

I would be inclined to say that the problem is excessive chip load . Chips are building up 
in the center of the stack where the four radii come together, they can't escape and when
the blade reaches that depth it has to drag through it already loaded up.
 Flood coolant would help with this but if this is not an option then you could use an air nozzle
to blow the area clean as the blade starts to enter that part of the material.
 Just a little baby sitting involved but cheaper than blades.

William


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## DANNYBOY (Mar 23, 2014)

thanks vapremac, 
I'll give that a try, 

wermie
I hate chop saws I was glad when mine died several years ago but with this much cutting to do I'll probably bite the bullet.

Danny


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## pineyfolks (Mar 24, 2014)

Did you check the dia of the rods? They may be different and causing vibration. Maybe putting something like a block of hardwood on the moveable jaw will give a better grip. You might need to rig a clamp to hold them down in the vise too.


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## DANNYBOY (Mar 24, 2014)

pineyfolks said:


> Did you check the dia of the rods? They may be different and causing vibration. Maybe putting something like a block of hardwood on the moveable jaw will give a better grip. You might need to rig a clamp to hold them down in the vise too.




This maybe my problem. Thanks pineyfolks


Are their any opinions on a different blade, type or pitch that may work better on the material I'm cutting

Danny


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## cjtoombs (Mar 24, 2014)

Abrasive chop saws are messy and put a lot of heat into the work.  I got a good deal on a used Dewalt 14" metal cutting chop saw that uses the carbide toothed metal cutting blades.  These look like a regular abrasive chopsaw, but run at a slower speed and use a special blade.  It has been great.  Most of the heat goes into the chip, so your workpiece doesn't come out blue on the end.  If you get the Dewalt blades, they last a long time.  I tried some cheaper blades, but they dulled quickly.  I've only actualy messed up one of the Dewalt blades, because I fed it too fast into a piece of flat 1/4" and knocked a tooth off it.  The second Dewalt blade is still in the machine, I keep the one with the missing tooth for backup.  I would highly recomend one of these type of saws (I think several others make them now), but stick with the brand name blades.  I only saved $10 on the cheap blade I bought, and it lasted no time.  I think one of these would solve your problem for cutting these, and I think you will be satisfied with it for other work as well.


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## DANNYBOY (Mar 24, 2014)

THANKS CJTOOMBS

I'VE BEEN CURIOUS B
ABOUT THOSE SAWS I'VE HEARD THEY ARE A BIT SLOWER THAN A ABRASIVE SAW.

Sorry about the caps.

Danny


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## cjtoombs (Mar 24, 2014)

It is faster than the abrasive saw that I had, but that's not saying much, it was a cheap HF unit.  It might indeed be slower than a good abrasive saw, but I couldn't vouch for that.


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## jam (Mar 28, 2014)

DANNYBOY said:


> I'm sure I've got this in the wrong forum so feel free to move it or let me know where to put it.:whiteflag: LOL
> 
> Anyway, Thought I'd ask the advice of the knowledgeable folks here. I'm cutting 7/8" Round bar 1" long I have been cutting a stick in 4 pieces and tacking it together and cutting it in the band saw. but it has a tendancy to strip teeth form time to time I'm using a lenox 10/14 bi-metal.I also stack 1x1x14ga.sq.tube, 3/4x3/4x11ga.sq.tube and 3/4 sch.40 pipe with no problems.
> 
> ...


 

I do that all the time and I stack the rod  like this  
                                                                        00
                                                                      0000
and I use a  water based coolant  to wash the chips away and I cutting  1'' X 30'' long  I get a 20' long bar cut it  in 5' and I tape it together every 12'' 
or so and I cut away with no prob  at all you blade may be off track if it is line it up  the other day I was cutting a flat bar and my  blade was out of line and boom it pop the blade 
put a new blade on and  looking at what was the prob with the saw and it was out of line by a little but a little is all it takes


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## Downunder Bob (Aug 31, 2017)

I agree with Terry and others that you should be using a coarser blade. I have done this many times with both band saw and power hacksaw, I would also not bother tack welding the ends, you might be gettting vibration between the rods, you would be much better by clamping the stack both in the work vice,and by clamping top to bottom, that is how we used to do it in a production situation.

I would also try to stack more rods in at each cut, and stack them nested rather than square, So you start with say 4 or 5 rods on the bottom layer then 1 les in the next layer then back to the same as the first then 1 less, try to create a block that is the same hight as width, use a piece of scrap wood or hard rubber aginst the moving jaw of the vice and the same on top of the pack with the top to bottom clamp, this will elliminate any irregularities between rods. Choose your blade, the coarsest possible for the pack size,  speed and feed as if the pack was solid, use flood coolant and if not possible use some air to blow out swarf from between the rods

Like so. This will give a more continuous cut and even load on the blade.
O O O O O
   O O O O
O O O O O
  O O O O
O O O O O 
Make sure the pack is clamped tight both horizontal and vertical.


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## Firestopper (Aug 31, 2017)

Gang cutting round stock can be tricky if your clamping system isn't up to the task. Tacking the end will help but if you have ANY rotation/slip you will kill your blade. A photo of your setup might help us better help you. A courser blade is recommended to prevent chip loading as other have mentioned.


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## higgite (Aug 31, 2017)

Hopefully, the OP solved his problem and made his cuts 3-1/2 years ago. 

Tom


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## Firestopper (Aug 31, 2017)

Hopefully someone else can currently use the info as well.


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## Downunder Bob (Sep 1, 2017)

firestopper said:


> Hopefully someone else can currently use the info as well.




Sooner or later someone else will have the same problem, by that time we'll all have forgotten this discussion.


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## wawoodman (Sep 1, 2017)

Would something like a hose clamp work? I can visualize one on each side of the cut, and more as needed.


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## Downunder Bob (Sep 1, 2017)

wawoodman said:


> Would something like a hose clamp work? I can visualize one on each side of the cut, and more as needed.



I don't know if a hose clamp would work, I've never seen it done that way, I think it would tend to cause the bundle to become a circular pack, might be worth a try, Only one way to find out.

I've only ever seen it done the way I have  done it that is to make up a pack that has x no of rods on the bottom layer and x-1 on the next then x again on the 3rd then x - 1 and so on. clamp this pack in the saw vice at the same time as clamp the pack from top to bottom, squeeze it tight both horizontal and vertical, use a piece of scrap wood on one side and top of pack to take up any irregularities so nothing can move. It is most important that nothing can move, it is movement that breaks blades, particularly if a rod can turn or roll while being cut.


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## Silverbullet (Sep 2, 2017)

I'd try the hose clamp if the stacks tight be hard to twist the teeth off.


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## Downunder Bob (Sep 2, 2017)

Silverbullet said:


> I'd try the hose clamp if the stacks tight be hard to twist the teeth off.



 It's the individual bars in the middle of the pack that you have to prevent from twisting, or to be more accurate from rolling over, when the blade gets into the pack, near the middle , if a bar is not held tight it can start to roll, this is what breaks the teeth off the blade. most hose clamps aren't that strong, and I'd worry that the center of the pack was not tight.

The jobs I was involved in we fitted a strong back accross the vice with a screw down plate between the jaws, The strongback legs hooked under the vice frame. we did 6"x 6"packs of 1/2" and 5/8" steel bar day and night, this was a production line thing. I don't remember ever breaking a blade, they just wore out.


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## higgite (Sep 2, 2017)

Wouldn't this be a perfect application for a work stop?

Tom


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