# Will a Craftsman QCGB casting fit on an Atlas 10F?



## vtcnc (Jul 29, 2019)

According to the manual in our downloads section, the Atlas QCGB casting for a 10F is 10-1580. 

I can't quite make out the number on the Craftsman branded casting, but it looks like 15-100 or 16-100. I am probably wrong about this as this is my best interpretation of a grainy photo.

Assuming those numbers are correct, does anyone know if the two different branded castings identical and interchangeable?

Thanks,


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## mmcmdl (Jul 29, 2019)

On the same note ……………………..will a Logan QCGB fit on a SB 9" ?


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## wa5cab (Jul 29, 2019)

The QCGB main casting for the 10" is not at least easily interchangeable with either of the 12" ones.  Part numbers for the two 12" ones are L6-1001 and 386-031.

I don't know whether or not one might install a Logan box on an SB lathe but I would guess either no or not easily.


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## mmcmdl (Jul 29, 2019)

Thanks Cab. My buddy has a SB with change gears and we located a Logan gearbox at that guys shop . I told him I would look into it . Sounds like the answer is NO .  Thanks again .


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## pontiac428 (Jul 29, 2019)

I would love a QCGB on my Atlas.  I think the 10" is the only fit for a 10" lathe, and you will have to modify the end of your lead screw (from what I've read).  That means you need the reversing gear assembly, gear box, and gear covers, which is a lot of parts to hunt down.  I have watched videos where people claim to be able to fit a 12" gear box on a 10" lathe, but I have not seen it done and don't know what is involved.  Sure would be nice to make use of those plentiful 12" QCGBs out there.


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## vtcnc (Jul 29, 2019)

wa5cab said:


> The QCGB main casting for the 10" is not at least easily interchangeable with either of the 12" ones.  Part numbers for the two 12" ones are L6-1001 and 386-031.
> 
> I don't know whether or not one might install a Logan box on an SB lathe but I would guess either no or not easily.


OK, now that you have subliminally suggested the part numbers, I can make them out. The casting I'm looking at is L6-1001. So that's that.

Thanks for the information and clarification.


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## dgehricke (Jul 30, 2019)

I am in the process of doing this right now The QCGB attachment was a cheap find in eBay compared to $564.00 and $525.00 I got the drawing for the tumbler from the good folks at Clausing Industries. I cony have to drill and tap 2 5/16 hole to mount the gear box, according to the instructions there is no need to change or modify the lead screw. I had to make some repairs to the gear box that I purchased but it came out well.
Heres a few photos of the QCGB undergoing repairs.  Also check Keith Ruckers web site for additional info about installing a QCGB to a 10 F lathe.
dgehricke


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## wa5cab (Jul 30, 2019)

I was writing the below while dgericke was writing the above.  My comments were WRT vtcnc's post.  I'm not sure which of the three models dgericke's box is.

OK.  That is the earliest one, for the 3/8" bed 12".  Same as what came with the 101.27430 and 440.

One basic difference betweenall 12" and all 10" is that all of the 12" have a tumbler-style reversing mechanism and all 10" have a reversing gear box.  So the 12" GB doesn't include a tumbler nor a means to attach it.  The additional inch of height on the 12" separates what is called the Stud Gear on the 10" from the spindle and it's 32T gear.  You could probably physically mount a 12" tumbler onto a 10" but the 32T/16T compound would already be meshed with the spindle gear.  So that if you lifted or lowered the tumbler arm and were able to mesh the smaller FWD or REV gear with the spindle gear, the spindle would be locked.

As the QCGB occupies the same general space as the FWD-REV gearbox on the change gear 10", you can't keep it on the machine.  That's most likely why the home built gear box that was recently the subject of a thread was entirely to the left of the headstock.

Another basic difference between the 10" and the 12" is that the main mounting bolts and tapped holes for whatever is there in front of the headstock are horizontal on the 12" and vertical on the 10".

On the part number subject, most 12" parts that are equivalent to similar 10" parts but which are somehow different begin with the letter "L" followed by a single digit and then a hyphen.  On some  of the exploded view drawings, the horizontal bar at the base of the letter "L" is very short and the character is easily mistaken for a numeral "1".  I don't know who to blame other than the Draftsman who drew it.  On earlier drawings where the digit may be a 2, 3, 4, or 5, this doesn't seem to be an issue.  But it would be easy to read L6-1001 as 16-1001 if you didn't already know better.


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## dgehricke (Jul 31, 2019)

Bob, its a 1600 all cast iron box I'm hopping it fits if not I can always sell lt on eBay I thanks for the input.
Regards
dgehricke


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## DiscoDan (Jul 31, 2019)

Dgehricke, how did you attach those pieces to the handles? I have 2 broken ones too.


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## dgehricke (Jul 31, 2019)

if they are cast iron I saw rust on age gear box when I purchased it cast will rust so I knew I was it was cast iron. When the gear box arrived I measured the sixe in diameter and the length and I made two pieces of cast iron,I then drilled and reamed to size. It was then a simple task to cut the 2 pieces in half and match them up and braze them after brazing I drilled and tapped for 2 set screws to hold the handle in place. See the photos of the gear box 3 and 4 above. Look in the downloads for the breakdown of the gear box it should be fairly simple. Now if your gear box is alum or zamac then that a different story all together. The only shaft to be removed is # 55 and its fairly simple then make the repairs. I was lucky enough to get 2 pieces also remove the shaft and the handles for the repairs.
for the parts I needed. get in touch with Joel at < mymachineshop.net > I think he can help you.If your gear box is not cast iron then its more of a challenge but it can be done with aluminum any thing else I can do to help you let me know. Attached is a drawing of the gear box which will give you a better idea of what to do.


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## DiscoDan (Jul 31, 2019)

The gearbox itself is fine but both handles were broken like yours. I did get one from Joel awhile back and I see one on eBay from him now but more than I want to spend right now. I actually have an aluminum replacement I have been working on that are almost done and fits fine. I just need to cut the slot for the two gears and then do some shaping so it doesn't look so squarish. I would prefer real pieces but whatever works.


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## wa5cab (Jul 31, 2019)

dgehricke.

Where did you come across the "1600" model number?  According to my sources, the three 10" models are 1500, 1571 and 6800.  And the three Craftsman model numbers are 101.20140, 101.20148 and 101.201451.  I think that one is a 101.201451 with the slip clutch on the output


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## dgehricke (Jul 31, 2019)

Robert its a manual for installation I have it down stairs in my shop I'll check tomorrow and let you know  disco dan can you could post some photos.also DO NOT use JB weld buy some Devcon alum
dgehricke


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## DiscoDan (Jul 31, 2019)

Top to bottom: 2 original broken arms, an arm I bought that fits in every way except the slot for the two gears is too narrow and I now know that it is from an early 10 or 12 inch model but I could modify, and on the bottom is the aluminium version I am whittling. All of the critical  dimensions are great and it just needs the slot for the gears and then slimmed down a bit.


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## dgehricke (Aug 1, 2019)

Disco Dan I believe those arms are cast aluminum easy fix if you cut to size some aluminum round stock  and cut to length then cut in half drill each side for roll pins and attach with Devcon and then drill holes for roll pins, these days what is used for welding aluminum weld if you have the tools and equipment. Good luck
dgehricke


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## DiscoDan (Aug 1, 2019)

My broken arms are definitely cast iron like yours. The second from the bottom is not magnetic but feels heavier than aluminum. Could it be Zamac?


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## wa5cab (Aug 1, 2019)

FWIW, installing a QCGB on a change gear 10" requires shortening the lead screw by one inch.  Installing one on a 12" does not.

From the drawings, it appears that the selector arms on the 10" boxes and on the earliest 12: ones were probably Zamak.  The drawings in the 10" and 12" manuals printed up through around 1952, including the section view shown in both 10" gearbox manuals show a part that wouldn't have been practical to make with a sand casting.  The ones on my 3996 match the drawings in the the later manuals which would have been typical of sand cast parts, and therefore are cast iron.  The earlier drawings are too thin and too finely detailed.  Two of the three arms The three arms shown in a photo earlier in this thread are flat sided like you would expect from a sand casting.  The weird thing is that Atlas never changed the part number, even with with s suffix "A".


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## DiscoDan (Aug 1, 2019)

wa5cab, in my picture the top two arms are the later model cast flat sides and part #10-1586. The third one down is the early one that I believe is Zamac and is not flat sided (see attached better pic). It is part #10-1506.


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## wa5cab (Aug 3, 2019)

OK.  I guess that I should have blown the photo up.  In the thumbnail, the three black ones all look the same from two feet away.  To add insult to injury, although the part number and part were revised from 10-1506 to 10-1586 between the original late 1947 introduction of the 1500 and the 1952 or maybe a little earlier introduction of the 6800 and the 101.20140, 101.27430 and 101.27440, the drawings in the manuals were not redone to show the cast iron levers until sometime after the Summer of 1957.  So for several years, the drawings and even one photograph still show the Zamak die cast levers.


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## vtcnc (Aug 14, 2019)

Does anybody have the 10-1586 drawing before I call Clausing?


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## dgehricke (Aug 14, 2019)

vtcnc,
 What is it ? I may have it, but I don't list the items I have by the numbers that clausing uses.
dgehricke


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## vtcnc (Aug 14, 2019)

dgehricke said:


> vtcnc,
> What is it ? I may have it, but I don't list the items I have by the numbers that clausing uses.
> dgehricke


Its the gear change lever used on the 6800 (10") QCGB. If you have the print, it should say 10-1586 in the title of the drawing.


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## dgehricke (Aug 14, 2019)

Thats the one I don't have I spoke to Ron at ext 233 at clausing and he told me he would research this item and let me know.
I'll probably have to call him again. There are 2 different lengths of arms I got one off eBay ( the short one ) with the 2 gears 20TPI and 24TPI I have 2 compound gears mounting the shorter is difficult with no photos or drawings.
I did get from Ron drawing #10-1502 10-1248 and 10-1273 The drawing of the reverse tumbler is very light when printed so I'm struggling making out the measurements. I made mine from a piece of ¾ " 6061 alum and I hope to get it completed in the next couple of days.
I'll attach the 3 drawings so you can pick and choose what you want.
regards
dgehricke


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## wa5cab (Aug 14, 2019)

I/we don't.  What you may run into with Clausing is that they may still have some 10-1586's in stock for sale.  In which case they won't release the drawing.


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## wa5cab (Aug 15, 2019)

There are in fact two different selector arms use among the five different QCGB;s that Atlas made.  However, this is the first indication I've seen that they were different lengths.  We knew that Atlas 10-1506 Selector Arm was used on the Atlas 1500 (and 1570, which differed only in having a template for drilling a hole in the 10D and earlier headstocks).  And 10-1586 was used on the later Atlas 6800 and all three of the QDGB's for the various 12" machines.  We know or at least assume from the design that 10-1506 was Zamak and that 10-1586 was cast iron.  There also exists a photo in the first parts manual on the    Craftsman 12" QCGB that shows what can only be a Zamak part.  But the same document also shows the arm as being 10-1586 and the drawing as opposed to the photograph shows the flat sided cast iron version.  

Most of the parts, other than the main castings, are the same in all five versions (or seven, if you count the parallel Atlas part numbers for the two versions used on the Atlas model numbers of the later 12" lathes).  This would tend to imply that the two arm part numbers are physically interchangeable.


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## vtcnc (Aug 16, 2019)

wa5cab said:


> There are in fact two different selector arms use among the five different QCGB;s that Atlas made.  However, this is the first indication I've seen that they were different lengths.  We knew that Atlas 10-1506 Selector Arm was used on the Atlas 1500 (and 1570, which differed only in having a template for drilling a hole in the 10D and earlier headstocks).  And 10-1586 was used on the later Atlas 6800 and all three of the QDGB's for the various 12" machines.  We know or at least assume from the design that 10-1506 was Zamak and that 10-1586 was cast iron.  There also exists a photo in the first parts manual on the    Craftsman 12" QCGB that shows what can only be a Zamak part.  But the same document also shows the arm as being 10-1586 and the drawing as opposed to the photograph shows the flat sided cast iron version.
> 
> Most of the parts, other than the main castings, are the same in all five versions (or seven, if you count the parallel Atlas part numbers for the two versions used on the Atlas model numbers of the later 12" lathes).  This would tend to imply that the two arm part numbers are physically interchangeable.


Called Clausing yesterday and asked for pricing on the 10-1586. $173 and in stock. When I asked if that was for a pair, there was a slight delay in the response...


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## wa5cab (Aug 16, 2019)

Well, that doesn't surprise me.  Just yesterday, I discovered that the price of most pieces of the old "MS" connectors us over $25.00.  And that is for ones made by the thousands in China.  At the end of WW-II, US made ones were under $1.  Price the cost of the equivalent part for several other brands and I'd bet you would get similar numbers for US made ones.


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## vtcnc (Aug 16, 2019)

What is an MS connector?


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## vtcnc (Aug 16, 2019)

wa5cab said:


> I/we don't.  What you may run into with Clausing is that they may still have some 10-1586's in stock for sale.  In which case they won't release the drawing.


That's what they told me on the phone.


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## wa5cab (Aug 16, 2019)

vtcnc said:


> What is an MS connector?



It was probably the most common military electrical/electronic connector family to come out of WW-II.  It officially became known as MIL-C-5015, and was also made by Cannon, Bendix, Pyle National and maybe a couple of other companies.  It was apparently started by American Phenolic Co. (known since right after the War through today as Amphenol) and known at first as the AN connector family.  It and its nomenclature were revised and re-named in the late 1940's although two or three accessory items are still available under their original nomenclature.


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## vtcnc (Aug 16, 2019)

If you had said Amphenol in the first note I would have known exactly what you were referring to...


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## wa5cab (Aug 16, 2019)

OK.  They were known in some civilian industries as the Amphenol connector.  But they were known generically in other industries (Geophysical and TV, I think)  as "Cannon" connectors.


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