# Help me spend my money on a TIG welder!



## Mauser lover

Okay, I know there are a zillion other places on the web I could ask, but since everyone on this forum has helped me spend more money than I planned in the past, I figured you guys would be more than happy to help this time! That's what these hobby forums are for, right!? 

So, to start off, here's my budget. 
$500

Here's what I want to do:
TIG (I know, GTAW) weld steel. Most of the time I will be welding steel. Having MIG (yeah, GMAW, whatever) is a plus, but I may never use it. Stick (SMAW, or something like that) welding is enough of a plus that I'm not going to get a welder that can't do it, but I'm pretty sure that any TIG welder is going to be able to do stick. 

TIG weld aluminum. Maybe I'm not going to do this all that much, but I want to be able to do it. So... Gotta be able to do AC-TIG. 

Don't know what numbers/how thick of metal I need to be able to do, so please edumacate me on all that. 

What else do I really need. Square wave? Is that good or bad? I really don't know what I need. I've had a one-semester multi-process welding class at a community college, but other than that, I'm pretty clueless. 

Anyway, here's the welder I'm considering, yes, I know it is a Horrible Fright, but I've actually come to like some of their stuff. 






						Harbor Freight Tools – Quality Tools at Discount Prices Since 1977
					

Harbor Freight buys their top quality tools from the same factories that supply our competitors. We cut out the middleman and pass the savings to you!




					www.harborfreight.com
				




And yes! I know I already blew my budget! So... if you find me something that is anywhere close to that, and better for one reason or another... Please! I need your help to spend my money! Thanks all.


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## Aaron_W

I'm not even where you are at yet, being in my first semester of welding class. I have however been window shopping welders for when I have a better idea of what I need / want.

I think you know, the $500 budget probably isn't enough for what you want even on the used market.

That HF Vulcan is not really all that much cheaper than a Lincoln or Miller Multiprocess machine (Miller 215 retail $1600, Lincoln 210 $1400) particularly if you waited for a rebate or sale which do come around. That would give you a name brand for warranty and parts support, and also gives you Mig in addition to the Tig and stick. Both a 120/240 machines like the Vulcan. I don't mean to trivialize $400-600, but once you are at $1000, what is another $400-600. 









						Multimatic® 215 Multiprocess Welder | MillerWelds
					

Easy-to-use and versatile MIG, Stick and DC TIG welder that helps build skills. Color screen featuring Auto-Set™ Elite. This all-in-one welder connects to 120 or 240 volt input power. Welds up to 3/8” mild steel.




					www.millerwelds.com
				









						POWER MIG® 210 MP® Multi-Process Welder
					

POWER MIG® 210 MP® multi-process welder is portable for MIG, stick, TIG, and flux-cored welding.




					www.lincolnelectric.com
				





You also have the option of going down scale, HF also has a cheaper Titanium 120/240 multi-process welder, it has specs very similar to the Vulcan you linked to, but it is green. Again gives you Mig, Tig and stick and it isn't even that much more than your very optimistic budget ($699). If you wait for one of those HF20% off coupons you might even come in at your budget.

https://www.harborfreight.com/weldi...cess-welder-with-120240-volt-input-64806.html

The duty cycle on all of these machines is fairly low, but the Miller and Lincoln are rated a little better. I do know the HF welders do have their fans.


Personally I'm looking at the Miller 215. All I really need is a wire feed for doing auto body rest repair, but if I'm going to spend close to $1000, I'd rather spend a little more and get something that will do it all. To get a Tig machine, you have fewer cheap options than with Mig.


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## markba633csi

I've heard good things about the AHP tig machine but it's over your budget by 300$ 
Consider MIG if you might want to do thin sheet metal work.  Harder to do it with TIG without a lot of practice
Mark


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## Tink

Try this one and let me know your results. I've heard good and bad. Nice price for an ac tig unit . 60 % duty cycle.
I have a Miller 215 with a spool gun. Havn't had any problems but after tig welding steel I would like to try ac tig. Just having a hard time spending another 750.  Should have just bought a little bigger welder with ac tig.
*2018 AHP AlphaTIG 200X *






						2018 AHP AlphaTIG 200X 200 Amp IGBT AC DC Tig/Stick Welder with PULSE 110v 220v 3 YEARS WARRANTY - - Amazon.com
					

2018 AHP AlphaTIG 200X 200 Amp IGBT AC DC Tig/Stick Welder with PULSE 110v 220v 3 YEARS WARRANTY - - Amazon.com



					www.amazon.com


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## NCjeeper

I don't think you can get an ac/dc tig machine or under 800 bucks. I bought an Everlast powertig 185 several years ago. Its been a great machine.


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## Cooter Brown

I just bought a Lincoln Electric Square Wave TIG 200 recently and I hate it, dont buy the Square Wave TIG 200, I should have bought the Miller Syncrowave 200..... If you make a decision dont let a salesman talk you into something else...


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## Aukai

Research this one, it had some guys talking.






						2018 AHP AlphaTIG 200X 200 Amp IGBT AC DC Tig/Stick Welder with PULSE 110v 220v 3 YEARS WARRANTY - - Amazon.com
					

2018 AHP AlphaTIG 200X 200 Amp IGBT AC DC Tig/Stick Welder with PULSE 110v 220v 3 YEARS WARRANTY - - Amazon.com



					www.amazon.com


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## Cadillac

Love my miller dynasty 200dx. But you’d need to up your price alittle. The ahp brand is pretty good and esab also. Everlast has some good reviews and a good price.


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## kb58

If your budget is really $500, buy used. That's the only way you'll get something worthwhile that's also within your budget.


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## roadie33

I bought the AHP Alpha Tig 200x 2 years ago and love it.
It does TIG AC/DC and stick. Once you get the settings dialed in it welds AC great.
The stick isn't too bad either. Ran some 7018 thru it on some 1/4' plate and it does a good job with plenty of penetration.
DC TIG is awesome on thin sheet.
For an under $800 multi-process welder it is great for the Home Hobbyist.


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## BGHansen

I bought an AHP Alpha Tig 200X a couple of years ago too.  I still need lots of practice on my aluminum welding, but lay pretty nice beads on stainless and CRS.  Had really good luck welding 0.036" sheet steel also.  But it's double your budget when you throw on a tank too.  You're going to have to walk into a deal to get something with a tank for $500.

Bruce


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## Cadillac

Shoot it just cost me 79 bucks to fill my argon and with 2pounds of silicon bronze a easy 100 bucks gone. 
 I’d look at CL listing a lot of people have been upgrading to a compact multiprocessor welder so the old transformer refrigerators are really cheap. One can get a syncrowave 300 for cheap.


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## Mauser lover

> once you are at $1000, what is another $400-600.



That right there is EXACTLY what I was hoping for from you guys! What are friends for, right? My budget is what it is, but I realize that (a) you get what you pay for, and (b) there's no way I'm staying under my budget. I'm not mortgaging a house for a welding hobby, but I am okay dropping a bit on this. I drive beaters so I can afford a shop. So... give me suggestions somewhere close to (or below isn't bad) $1000, like where the HF welder is priced. And I've got a 10% coupon until the end of March... But feel free to give me suggestions a couple hundred dollars above that too. 

Okay, so far....

I'm still on the HF Vulcan

Other suggestions...

The Miller and Lincoln don't have AC TIG. That right there is a deal breaker for me. Same with the cheaper HF welders. 

AlphaTIG... I'm iffy on it. It just seems pretty cheesy, their info on their site, etc. If you've got experience with it, let me know, and maybe it will sway me. In what way(s) is it superior to the Vulcan? In what way(s) is it inferior? Features included or missing? Is warranty support decent? That pedal.... just looks wrong. What is the difference in the 200x on Amazon and the 201XD on their website? http://www.ahpwelds.com/product/ahp-alphatig-201xd

Don't know anything about the Everlast, will have to look it up. 

What do I really need in a TIG welder? Let me know why your model is or might be better than the Vulcan, or what features you wish yours had, etc. 

Reasons for going HF at the moment... 

Pretty inexpensive.
Not the best warranty length, but I'll probably get the extended warranty. But I can go back into the store. It is a bit of a drive to get to the store, but not bad. Support seems to not be terrible.
AC TIG! (Like I said, I'm getting a machine that can do both, or not getting a machine)
It does have MIG capabilities. Not a deal breaker, but a plus.
The Roman god of fire and forging has got to count for something!
Coupons!

Thanks for the help all! Like I said, I did take that one semester class, but that was a good long while ago. I actually took that class while I was still in high school, and now I'm a regular geezer! I did have a job (off campus, not related!) while I was doing my undergrad college stuff at an exhaust shop for light aircraft. Most of the stuff we did was stainless, and I didn't do a whole lot of welding, but I did do some. All of it was TIG. But I learned absolutely nothing about the theory of welding, nothing about proper amperage for thickness, nothing about what pulsing is or square wave vs. whatever else there is, etc. The welder was already set up, all I did was sit down and push the pedal and go. Which I'm fairly good at, but now that I'm actually shopping for a welder for myself, I really know nothing. So.... thanks for the help!


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## AGCB97

Tink said:


> Try this one and let me know your results. I've heard good and bad. Nice price for an ac tig unit . 60 % duty cycle.
> I have a Miller 215 with a spool gun. Havn't had any problems but after tig welding steel I would like to try ac tig. Just having a hard time spending another 750.  Should have just bought a little bigger welder with ac tig.
> *2018 AHP AlphaTIG 200X *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2018 AHP AlphaTIG 200X 200 Amp IGBT AC DC Tig/Stick Welder with PULSE 110v 220v 3 YEARS WARRANTY - - Amazon.com
> 
> 
> 2018 AHP AlphaTIG 200X 200 Amp IGBT AC DC Tig/Stick Welder with PULSE 110v 220v 3 YEARS WARRANTY - - Amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


That's the one I have (2017 model) and love it. It's also a stick welder. You'd pay multiple thousands more for a red or blue one and not get nearly as many features!


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## roadie33

Go do some searches on Utube. Plenty of experienced welders have done reviews with the AHP Alpha Tig and give good and bad reasons for them.
Most are positive except for the pedal. But if you really don't like it you can upgrade it for $125. 
Personally I don't use mine that much, when I do I turn it around and set my foot on the top and press the pedal with my toe. That way it can't go squirting out. I also fastened it to a piece of 1x with rubber on the bottom. I use the finger trigger on mine most of the time.
The Everlast is another good budget welder with plenty of reviews of it.


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## kb58

Mauser lover said:


> ...The Miller and Lincoln don't have AC TIG. That right there is a deal breaker for me. Same with the cheaper HF welders.


Yeah they do... they just cost more.

I had Miller's early "EconoTig" unit and got rid of it. What many people don't realize is that the high end units control _low current _better. The Econtig would cut out at something around 15-20 amps, and as a result, you couldn't weld thin wall material. Traded it in on a Syncrowave 250 and never looked back (this was back in the late 1990s). Yes it cost a lot but I never regretted it; still have it, still works great, even after building two cars from scratch with it (www.midlana.com).

Speaking of cost, if you're going to do any sustained welding, regardless of brand, you're going to want a chiller.


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## Mauser lover

> Yeah they do... they just cost more.



Yeah, sorry. Meant the two cheaper ones linked in post #2. I've used both Miller and Lincoln (both at the school, and Miller at the exhaust shop) so I know that they are great, but... 

You know the difference between getting a welder this year and saving for another year or two? That's the difference between the HF/AlphaTIG/etc. and a Miller for me. Still might snag one on Craigslist or the book of faces, but not holding my breath on that. 

I'll look at some of the videos, of all of them, but I'm torn on actually trusting the videos. Who do I trust? Which guys are just shills for Miller? Or Harbor Freight? Or AlphaTIG? 

Here's a thought, has anyone had any BAD experiences with these cheaper welders? 

And no, I'm not planning on doing any sustained welding. Just a semi-picky hobbyist here. Plenty of cool-down time in my shop.


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## Cooter Brown

Only build with blue....


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## Mauser lover

That's funny, I was told that "Miller's for drinkin', Lincoln's for weldin'"

Although that Syncrowave 250 idea is growing on me.


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## Cadillac

I’d stay away from HF just don’t think the quality and durability will be there. As said the better units will have better control of settings for light gauges. Before I came across the miller dynasty through my research the next best was esab which is a top tier. I honestly was gonna get the everlast 210 I think. I remember YouTube having a comparison of all the top models miller Lincoln everlast. They show arc comparison and options. I recommend high freq. unit expectially if wanting to do lots of aluminum and stainless.
I wouldn’t rush getting one theirs a lot to learn and options are important for your use. Duty cycle matters a lot your already at the bottom end of machines so your probably on the small side of power/amperage. Meaning you’ll be undersized to start always pushing it which then the duty cycle comes into play. With a inverter type welder the control boards might not be a durable as transformer type and might let the smoke out quicker. So get the most duty cycle you can get it matters a lot.


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## kb58

I meant to add that I spent probably a year trying to find a decent priced used machine and gave up. That's because good welders are like pickup trucks, old one's are nearly as useful as new ones, so they really hold their value. At the end of the day, I bought a new machine because it wasn't that much more than used, and it also removed the variable of "what's wrong with it" from the equation. My point is to prepare yourself for what it might all cost in the end


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## Mauser lover

Synchrowave 250
					

I have a synchrowave 250 here for sale. Just serviced by blue arc. Has 2 tig setups and a stick lead with it. Will need gas hose and ground cable. Great machine just no need for it



					huntington.craigslist.org
				




There went the budget.... 

I probably won't even go check this one out, but what should I look at to make sure the welder works? If I were to get a craigslist score, should I just ask the owner to run a SMAW bead and demonstrate that it turns on and works? Or just light up the TIG torch so I can see it works? Or are there more "little things" that can go wrong and mess up the deal?


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## Cadillac

Have them turn it on and put through the paces. If your not capable I would bring someone that knows. Bring some aluminum, and steel thick and thin. You want to check if the high frequency works I’ve heard of that going out on machines. The older transformer type are kind of bullet proof not much goes wrong with them. Definately a advantage for a water cooled torch so keep that in mind.


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## ericc

A welder is something that I would recommend that you start off frugally, then upgrade.  It is one of those funny things that people get super excited about, then don't keep on track with.  I think that the big deal here is aluminum.  People start out thinking that they are going to weld huge amounts of aluminum.  Then, they end up welding not much of anything.  The first thing I'd do is take a class in a community college, which it seems like you have already done.  It's a good idea to take the class with the project in it.  I have a friend who teaches community college welding down the street.  They have a great setup, but he tells me that 80-90% of the students lack direction and are never ever going to do any welding.  They just need to take the class to find that out.  Rub shoulders with these guys, find out what makes them tick, and make sure that it doesn't have anything to do with you.  Then, figure out what you absolutely need to weld right now.  If it is indeed aluminum, get that AC TIG welder.  I'd be tempted to stick with a basket case Miller 330 AB/P off Craigslist.  I saw a pristine Sync 250 at a machine shop going out of business that they were selling for $600.  That would have been fantastic, but I just filled up my space with a milling machine, and I already have a DC TIG which is just great.  I've had to weld aluminum twice in the past several years, and both times that was for other people.  The first was a trailer, and I was able to scrounge a small MIG welder temporarily, and I got the guy to spring for a liner.  I already had argon, so that did it.  The second time, it was some fancy door work, and the fellow already had an AHP and I just had to teach him how to weld aluminum.  By the way, that AHP worked just great, and did a nice job.  No hiccups.

What do you have to weld, RIGHT NOW?


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## BGHansen

My AlphaTig is the only one I've used so no problem for me getting used to the pedal.  I did screw it to a board which is attached to my weld bench.  It works for me, but might be a case of "if your expectations are low enough, you'll never be disappointed".  Our die welder at work used one and was impressed with the results for the money.  He did buy a Miller when he retired, but his budget was >$500.

Bruce


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## Mauser lover

ericc said:


> What do you have to weld, RIGHT NOW?



Well... now that you ask... I've got a NFA Form 1 back for a silencer. Stainless there. Probably mostly machining, but I'm expecting some welding, and definitely TIG. Also need a stand for my baby milling machine (okay, adolescent mill; Rong Fu). Steel there, could be MIG or even stick. Been thinking about a CETME project too. Definitely TIG there, steel. I've always been able to borrow tools for my past projects, but there comes a time when your usage surpasses your buddies' tools. I think that time is now. I don't want to get something the equivalent of what I can borrow, I definitely want an upgrade. 

As far as aluminum goes... I really just want to be able to do it. Because I've done some of it already, I know I like working with it. I've grown up around aviation (and the college job too), so a homebuilt airplane isn't out of the question. Just not this year, probably. Bigger shop first, unless my wife lets me use the living room for workspace  I do have a set of plans picked out, actually three that I need to decide on before I start.


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## Kilroy08

If space in the garage isn't a concern and you're willing to be patient, craigslist can yield some real gems.

Older transformer machines tend to pop up for a good price semi regularly. I got lucky and stumbled across a guy selling a Lincoln Idealarc TIG 250. The TIG side wasn't working and he was tired of moving the thing around to clean the shop. For $75 I felt it was worth the risk. A $1.95 diode later, I had it up and running. Total investment in the machine was around $500 since it was just the unit and no cables, hose, argon tank, or regulator. 

If you decide to go the older used route, make sure to get a machine with AC balance, frequency, and pulse. While my Lincoln does great on steel, steel, and more steel, the lack of other features makes it a pain. 

For a new machine, I'm saving up my Ducats for an HTP Invertig. It's a little pricy at $2500 or so, but has everything a Dynasty 200 DX does. After watching numerous hours of youtube reviews, I felt this was the best out of the import bunch. It's made in Italy as opposed to China. Marinarium is not only better, but the flavor is much improved when compared to Chinesium. This Old Tony has some pretty good videos on it.


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## markba633csi

AHP and Everlast are apparently related- they share the same building.  I've heard the customer service has improved considerably.
The Synchrowaves don't have a lot of electronics to fail in them so probably more reliable over the long run than the new inverter machines.
Personally I would take an inverter since I know a bit of electronics and could fix it out of warranty 
mark


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## arcflash

I have had an AHP for a few years now. Absolutely love it. Try the AHP weld site they are on sale now.


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## Janderso

I’m an All Blue man myself. 220 AC/DC -mig-tig-Stick with two gases ,no cart ran over $3,400.
I went with Lotos for a plasma cutter. Doesn’t Lincoln have a low end line?
So far, the Cheap Lotos is doing the job.
$1,000, you should be able to squeak in there. The gas/tank cart and accessories add up fast.


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## arcflash

As a ITW retired employee I have my opinions about Blue.


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## Cadillac

arcflash said:


> As a ITW retired employee I have my opinions about Blue.



Good or bad?


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## Cooter Brown

I have never seen a red or yellow machine on a union ironworker job site or in a fab shop anywhere in the Detroit area they only buy blue.... I hate my Lincoln tig 200....


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## Buffalo21

The vast majority of welders I see on the job sites, in CNY, NNY, VT and NH, all seem to be Lincolns, mostly the Invertec V275S and some older IdealArcs. Most of job sites, we work on don’t allow engine drives, when the building is enclosed or occupied, so it mostly inverters.


My tig machine is a Miller Dynasty 350 DX


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## Firstram

I'm happy with my AHP and use it almost daily. I did buy a better pedal but that came a little later.


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## Mauser lover

Well, I was contemplating waiting on a Miller Syncrowave to show up used, and I was contemplating the AlphaTIG because there wasn't all that much that the Vulcan offered for those couple of hundred dollars difference, but my wife decided for me. Which, in my case, is probably great, because if I didn't get one, I'd probably go for the next long time without a welder. Anyway, I've got a bunch of Horrible Fright gift cards, so I'm thinking a Vulcan is in my future.


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## Mauser lover

Just a final plea for help here... 

Is there any place on the web that will sell me an Argon bottle that is decently sized? I'm looking for a 390 cubic foot (I think) bottle, so pretty good sized, but my local welding supply places won't sell bottles that big. I know I'll be paying a bit for shipping, but I definitely don't want to be renting a bottle, and a 125 foot bottle is going to be a little small, I'm thinking. That's the biggest I can find for sale locally, and I'm not seeing anyone online who will ship anything bigger. 

Thanks.


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## Dabbler

My general rule is save longer, buy better - I bought a used Millermatic 250 the day after it was returned to the dealer on an end-of-lease deal.  Paid very little for it, a professional welder for a little less than a hobby machine.

Big argon bottles are tricky.  I'd say look local at a full service shop that will refill it and recertify it for you.  Never buy a bottle you haven't checked out in person first.  Some guys will sell you a bottle that was 'recently certified' - 10 years past the recertification date.  You might as well buy a piece of 8" tubing.  It would be more useful - and more valuable.


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## Mauser lover

Yeah, the welder itself is already decided on. I've got a stack of HF gift cards on my desk right now, waiting to be magically transformed into a welding machine. 

I talked to the welding shop today, they will re-certify a bottle and fill it as long as I have proof of ownership (like a receipt), but I just need to get a bottle! 

I was thinking a new bottle, or a retailer online that will show me the certification stamp, or something like that. Where do folks get them? Somebody has to sell them!


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## roadie33

There are a couple of Airgas branches in Lexington I am sure would have what you need.


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## Mauser lover

The Airgas branch in Hazard won't sell what I want. Only lease. Worth a phone call though.


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## Cadillac

I lease 4 different bottles I believe it’s a better deal for you. Any retailer will NOT fill your bottle or another suppliers bottle. A leased bottle will be cheaper for you than buying outright.  Only downside is your limited to that supplier to exchange your tank. Why would you want to buy a bottle anyways? And such a BIG bottle.


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## NCjeeper

I just bought 2 80 bottles from Airgas. One for my mig and one for my tig. They are easier to handle than the bigger bottles.


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## ericc

I'd just rent the tank if you want to get started right away.  If you use that much gas, you should be renting.  I have an unpleasant childhood experience loading full size liquified gas tanks onto trucks.  It was horrible, even though I got paid.  Now, I love small tanks, even if someone else is moving the tanks for me.  Why do you need such a large tank?  If you are doing that much welding, you are either in a shop or you need a stick welder.  Same with me.  If there is a lot of welding, I bring out either the stick or the mig and make a mess.  The mig uses gas too, but it is carbon dioxide and goes a long way.  Also, you can weld faster.


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## Mauser lover

I would purchase a bottle because I hate recurring payments on anything. I have a prepaid cell phone simply for that reason, and I buy a year at a time. Can't swing that with the electric company, but I do the best I can on everything else! I figure the bottle isn't going to go bad in three or four years, and even if it needs to be recertified I'll be ahead after five years or so.

I want a big one so I can go further between fills, and because fills tend to be a cheaper unit price for larger ones. But I'm rethinking the hassle at the moment. I might just go with a 125. Or maybe a 125 and an 80, so I can have a spare when the 125 runs out... Decisions, decisions... Actually... I think that's what I'll do.


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## Cadillac

I don’t pay a reacurring fee. here’s The kicker I don’t know exact sizes but my 3’ argon tanks just cost 64 dollars to exchange at airgas. The guy told me they are harder to come by and more expensive because they tend to be for homeowners and such who sit on them. Larger tanks are generally for industry.
I have a  five foot argon tank also, last time I exchanged it maybe 2 months ago it cost me 43 bucks from terrace gas. Almost double the gas for 2/3 the price at other location.
My 5’ tank last a good amount. You better start buying different wire,cups, collets, tungsten, tungsten grinder, if you plan on burning through this much gas. It adds up!


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## Buffalo21

You would be hard pressed locally to find any one to fill an owned tank, about 3-4 yrs ago, it got to no lease no gas.

There was a shop that filled user owned tanks, but they had a 2-3 week turn around, so it got out very quickly to avoid them.

I have 11 leased tanks, don’t like the rental fees, but that better than owning a tank, I can’t get filled.


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## Cooter Brown

Buffalo21 said:


> You would be hard pressed locally to find any one to fill an owned tank, about 3-4 yrs ago, it got to no lease no gas.
> 
> There was a shop that filled user owned tanks, but they had a 2-3 week turn around, so it got out very quickly to avoid them.
> 
> I have 11 leased tanks, don’t like the rental fees, but that better than owning a tank, I can’t get filled.




New York sucks! My Local welding shop Baker's Gas will take any tank even if it has a hole rusted in the bottom, $40 test fee and they give you a brand new filled tank on the spot... I own 8 tanks and don't have any issues getting them filled in Michigan...

I buy used tanks on Craigslist and pay a $40 test fee....


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## 7milesup

Cooter Brown said:


> I just bought a Lincoln Electric Square Wave TIG 200 recently and I hate it, dont buy the Square Wave TIG 200, I should have bought the Miller Syncrowave 200..... If you make a decision dont let a salesman talk you into something else...



What is your reasons for hating it.  I learned on a Miller multi-process but that was nearly $4000.  I bought the TIG 200 and it works great.  Only wish the minimum amps would be less than what they are.  Some other stuff would be nice but not necessary.

My friend has an ESAB and really likes it.


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## Cooter Brown

7milesup said:


> What is your reasons for hating it.  I learned on a Miller multi-process but that was nearly $4000.  I bought the TIG 200 and it works great.  Only wish the minimum amps would be less than what they are.  Some other stuff would be nice but not necessary.
> 
> My friend has an ESAB and really likes it.



I can't control the background current, I can't control the post flow, no sine wave, no triangle wave, and it doesn't have a 100% duty cycle at any amperage... The Miller Syncrowave 200 does all of that... Ohhhh and the Lincoln has a cooling fan that turns on right when you power up the machine that is loader than my air compressor.... But its biggest problem is the color its RED.... lol

ESAB Only has one cool feature the MIG welder with the rotating wire feeder on top....


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## 7milesup

I own my tank from Praxair.  It is about 4 feet tall.  Have only seen one size larger.  Cost me about $90 to fill.


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## 7milesup

Cooter Brown said:


> I can't control the background current, I can't control the post flow, no square wave, no triangle wave, and it doesn't have a 100% duty cycle at any amperage... The Miller Syncrowave 200 does all of that... Ohhhh and the Lincoln has a cooling fan that turns on right when you power up the machine that is loader than my air compressor.... But its biggest problem is the color its RED.... lol
> 
> ESAB Only has one cool feature the MIG welder with the rotating wire feeder on top....



The Lincoln TIG 200 is a square wave.   As far as duty cycle, I just got done with a project where I welded some aluminum together at its max rated 200 amps.  Never had it cut out but the torch did get so hot I could hardly hang onto it.  
Yes, the fan is a little irritating but I don't care.  Heck, I had to put ear plugs in when I was welding at 200 amps because of the frequency I had it set at.

Also, your Miller is THREE times the cost of the Lincoln.  I would hope that it has more features.


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## Cooter Brown

the


7milesup said:


> The Lincoln TIG 200 is a square wave.   As far as duty cycle, I just got done with a project where I welded some aluminum together at its max rated 200 amps.  Never had it cut out but the torch did get so hot I could hardly hang onto it.
> Yes, the fan is a little irritating but I don't care.  Heck, I had to put ear plugs in when I was welding at 200 amps because of the frequency I had it set at.
> 
> Also, your Miller is THREE times the cost of the Lincoln.  I would hope that it has more features.



At My local welding shop the miller was only $600 more... they hook me up... The Miller will run 95 amps at 100% duty cycle.... The majority of the TIG work I do can be done at 95 amps...


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## Cooter Brown

I found out the only reason why they tried to sell me the Lincoln is because the salesman gets $10 from Lincoln for every one they sell....


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## pontiac428

7milesup said:


> Also, your Miller is THREE times the cost of the Lincoln.  I would hope that it has more features.


It does have some very good features, especially for those coming from Lincoln:  Warranty, parts, and lifetime support.

I have a 1960's white face Miller Dialarc HF water cooled beast.  I lost HF start, and went to Praxair for help... The Miller research department sent me the original manuals and parts list, plus an up-to-date part number interchange list.  I got the rectifier and relay I needed for about $25, used the schematics supplied, and fixed my welder good as new.  Let's see you try that with a red welder.  The answer you'll get is, "We're sorry, that model is no longer supported."  Lincoln does make shareholders happy, however.  Just look at what Miller offers beginners and home shop folks on their web site- they re-invest their profits into building a customer rapport that is unique in the industry for non-commercial customers.


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## Dabbler

I have gotten great support for my Miller, but I have good stories about Lincoln (at least the professional ones)...

Let's not devolve into 'my welder is better than your welder' woes.  The small consumer Miller welder is crap, and I'm sure the customer service for it sucks too.  

I try to buy professional equipment because these companies can't afford the word-of-mouth saying that they won't support their prof. equipment.  Market would be lost in a month.


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## 7milesup

I was just going to say....Red or Blue.   This argument is worse than Ford or Chevy.  I own a Ram EcoDiesel so yeah, I'm different.

This thread is taking on the same tone as the jackwagons over at Practical M...


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## 7milesup

pontiac428 said:


> It does have some very good features, especially for those coming from Lincoln:  Warranty, parts, and lifetime support.



The warranty for Miller and Lincoln are the same for the machines I would be looking at.  But I'm not spending $15K on a machine either so I don't care about production machines.


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## Cooter Brown

Buy a machine that you can grow into instead of one that you will grow out of....


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## 7milesup

You could use that argument for everything.  Trucks, cars, aircraft, helicopters, lathes, mills, houses...you name it.


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## Dabbler

I welded all kinds of materials with a cheap, 110V  "Clarke weld" welder for 10 years before I could afford an industrial machine.  It did the job, and I was grateful for being able to weld within my budget.

Now I can weld with more punch, but I still own that little s***box.  Why?  because it welds aluminum without a spool gun - the lead in from the welding box is about 4 feet, which if I keep straight, produces no cobbles in thousands of hours of welding.

There is room for consumer welders and professional welders.  I took a risk on a consumer welder, and I was lucky - it paid off.  If it dies, it's garbage.  If my Millermatic 250 dies, I know it is fixable - there's the difference.

I want to emphasize:  even though I use blue, I have found *no material difference* between red and blue in their professional lines. 

But beware of the up-and-coming off brands.  They are getting a fantastic rep, but I know of an ESAB and a Everlast that are gathering dust because the control board died.  The EASB is supposed to be fixable, but no board for 5 months so far...  The Everlast was fixed after a year of not working, and now the guy is afraid it will die again.


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## coherent

I'll add my thoughts on the AHP Alpha Tig 200. Had mine for a couple years also. Love it. Don't think you can find a better AC/DC TIG welder with it's options and ability for the money. Not cheesy by any means. Only thing I did was replace the foot pedal with a better one  from SSC Controls and got another smaller torch. Much smoother pedal operation than the stock one that comes with the machine. Of course there are consumables that can add up, but Amazon is your friend for those.


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## danny12

I have two of the 80 cubic feet tanks. Because no matter how big of a tank you have it will run out at 5:00 Friday afternoon.


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## aliva

Don't want to hijack this thread buy has anyone purchased an Everlast TIG? . I'm looking at a power TIG 200DV


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## Cooter Brown

aliva said:


> Don't want to hijack this thread buy has anyone purchased an Everlast TIG? . I'm looking at a power TIG 200DV



I had an Everlast 160STH and it was a nice machine for me at the time because I taught myself how to TIG with a very small entry fee, but the machine wasn't great quality every part of it broke or fell apart, I sold it for $50 and a big piece of bronze recently....


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## 7milesup

Well, there ya go Aliva.  EVERY part broke on it.  Wrong color too.


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## aliva

I'd like to hear from others concerning Everlast before I make any decisions. Thanks for the reply, certainly something to consider


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## Dabbler

I think the consumer tig welders in all flavours are spendy if you compare buying a lease return industrial welder.  The nominal cost for a lease return after 1 or 2 year lease is about 1/4 of retail.  I paid $800 for my Millermatic 250 because the original user upgraded to the electronic version (17 years ago).


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## 7milesup

Dabbler said:


> I think the consumer tig welders in all flavours are spendy if you compare buying a lease return industrial welder.  The nominal cost for a lease return after 1 or 2 year lease is about 1/4 of retail.  I paid $800 for my Millermatic 250 because the original user upgraded to the electronic version (17 years ago).



Where do you go to find these lease returns?   I have never heard of our local Praxair mentioning anything about that.  Maybe Airgas?  I also have a Mississippi Welders store not too far away.


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## Dabbler

I bought mine at Air Liquide, before Linde bought them out in Alberta.  Every industrial place that sells is a candidate for lease returns.  You might be able to find out who leases welders using bank leases from the suppliers if you are careful and ask the right way.  Most lease terms are 2-3 years, and then the unit has zero accouting value at the end.


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## 7milesup

Dabbler said:


> I bought mine at Air Liquide, before Linde bought them out in Alberta.  Every industrial place that sells is a candidate for lease returns.  You might be able to find out who leases welders using bank leases from the suppliers if you are careful and ask the right way.  Most lease terms are 2-3 years, and then the unit has zero accounting value at the end.



Interesting.  I will check into that.  Thanks.


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## Mauser lover

So... Horrible Fright went and discontinued the ProTig line. They still have stock in stores, and they still have stock for online sales of everything but the ProTig200. I called various stores to check stock, and the nearest one was something like 4.5 hours away. Didn't feel like spending a whole Saturday driving. So, I have a bunch of gift cards for HF sitting on my desk, getting VERY slowly spent on other stuff. But, thanks to one little post I went and checked out Everlast and they were running a preorder sale. I called them up about finding a dealer in KY, and they said that they didn't have any, but that I could just go ahead and order on the phone. I fell for it (was planning on doing so anyway), and they threw in an upgraded torch and pedal (they called it the "Nova" kit). The preorder was only three days long, got the machine already!Haven't made any heat with it yet, but it did power up! We'll see how it goes after I get some gas.


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## Cadillac

You should be happy I’ve heard good thing about the everlast even though it’s not blue or red. You would have regretted the HF they discontinued for a reason. Happy welding!


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## Mauser lover

I'm guessing that HF bought a container ship's worth of Vulcans, and they just ran out of them. I'm guessing there is another AC/DC welder coming with a green box with "Titanium" blazoned on the side. So... if the warranty needed to be used, I would probably have ended up with a "Titanium" equivalent instead of the orange one. So... let's hope the Everlast works out and any warranty issues will be fine! 

It's a PowerTig 200DV, by the way.


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## NCjeeper

I have had my Everlast powertig 185 now for 5 years? and its been problem free.


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## Mauser lover

Your post, number five, is what made me look at their site and look at some reviews. 

Which means... I blame you for my spending money!


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## Cooter Brown

I had an everlast 160STH and everything on that machine broke or stopped working. I just sold it for $50.... The TIG high frequency and lift arc stopped working and I had to TIG with it set to stick and had to hook up the gas directly to the torch..... Is was a great machine to learn on but I wouldn't recommend it....


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## NCjeeper

Mauser lover said:


> Your post, number five, is what made me look at their site and look at some reviews.
> 
> Which means... I blame you for my spending money!


Nice.


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## stioc

Congrats, I've heard good things about the Everlast but it was out of my budget. I just ordered a PrimeWeld TIG225X for $775 out the door on Amazon. For the features I couldn't find a better TIG for the price, not even the AHP ($819 with shipping and tax). From what I understand the Prime Weld TIG is very similar/same as the AHP underneath but comes with a real CK torch and additional 25 amps, both pre and post flow control. The duty cycle is slightly less at 40% but I think that's just a math trick i.e. AHP gives you 60% duty cycle at lower amps, TIG225X gives you 40% at higher amps.

My Thunderbolt AC/DC with scratch TIG setup is now for sale. Great little rig but I can't justify keeping it with the new one on the way.


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## MikeInOr

stioc said:


> Congrats, I've heard good things about the Everlast but it was out of my budget. I just ordered a PrimeWeld TIG225X for $775 out the door on Amazon. For the features I couldn't find a better TIG for the price, not even the AHP ($819 with shipping and tax). From what I understand the Prime Weld TIG is very similar/same as the AHP underneath but comes with a real CK torch and additional 25 amps, both pre and post flow control. The duty cycle is slightly less at 40% but I think that's just a math trick i.e. AHP gives you 60% duty cycle at lower amps, TIG225X gives you 40% at higher amps.
> 
> My Thunderbolt AC/DC with scratch TIG setup is now for sale. Great little rig but I can't justify keeping it with the new one on the way.



Please let us know what you like and dislike about your PrimeWeld TIG225X when you get it.  I have been looking around for a tig for a while... every year they seem to get fancier and less expensive.  I am looking at the exact same units you are looking at.  I also noticed the 225a @ 40% vs 200a at 60%.  I noticed the Primweld was a bit heavier than the Alpha (90lbs vs 69lbs)... so they probably threw a couple extra cement blocks in the bottom of the Primeweld case.  The control layout on the Primeweld seems well laid out and very intuitive, more so than the Alpha... but I guess I would get used to the controls on any welder I purchase.

It looks like the Primeweld TIG225X is $775 on Amazon and the AlphaTig 200X is $730 on Amazon + $30 shipping... so really not much difference.


It seems like it wasn't THAT long ago that the Everlast welders were the cheap unproven import welders that everyone was contemplating gambling their money on... with lots of good reviews and lots of horror stories.


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## MikeInOr

TIG225X review (or maybe just an advertisement but it kind of feels like an authentic review).


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## stioc

MikeInOr said:


> Please let us know what you like and dislike about your PrimeWeld TIG225X when you get it.  I have been looking around for a tig for a while... every year they seem to get fancier and less expensive.  I am looking at the exact same units you are looking at.  I also noticed the 225a @ 40% vs 200a at 60%.  I noticed the Primweld was a bit heavier than the Alpha (90lbs vs 69lbs)... so they probably threw a couple extra cement blocks in the bottom of the Primeweld case.  The control layout on the Primeweld seems well laid out and very intuitive, more so than the Alpha... but I guess I would get used to the controls on any welder I purchase.
> 
> It looks like the Primeweld TIG225X is $775 on Amazon and the AlphaTig 200X is $730 on Amazon + $30 shipping... so really not much difference.
> 
> 
> It seems like it wasn't THAT long ago that the Everlast welders were the cheap unproven import welders that everyone was contemplating gambling their money on... with lots of good reviews and lots of horror stories.



I'll let you know but unless it comes damaged they seem to get very good reviews like the AHP.
Cost wise, in my case, AHP charged tax through Amazon whereas the Primeweld didn't, so that's why AHP was more expensive for me. Another thing, with the possible tariffs coming they all may get a little more expensive, even 10% more is $70+


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## Mauser lover

Just a thought... many (if not most, if not all) states have a section on your form for sales or use tax for things purchased from vendors that don't collect it. Just don't get in trouble...


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## stioc

Here's a long thread on the Prime Weld TIG along with a video and experiences from the welding web forum https://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?700179-Primeweld-AC-DC-Tig-225X


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## Janderso

Mauser lover said:


> That's funny, I was told that "Miller's for drinkin', Lincoln's for weldin'"
> 
> Although that Syncrowave 250 idea is growing on me.



I'm in a farming community in Northern CA. Most of the ag equipment maintenance trucks run Miller. They say Lincoln is OK but Miller is for the pros.
They both make high end machines and they also have low end hobby machines.
I have always had blue and I ain't changing.
Lincoln does a great job in their education division.
I wanted to add, my local welding supply sells , Hypertherm, Miller and Lincoln. They don't stock much Lincoln because their customers demand Miller.
Could be a regional thing. You know, Chevy, Ford.


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## Dabbler

My shop is blue, but I recognize that is just what I could get used at a good price.  I'd be Red if there were more Lincoln welders here.  Frankly for the 6 times I weld each year, I'd be able to use a hobby unit.  I just prefer industrial units - to me the feel of using them is well worth the slightly additional cost.  

I paid 800 for my used miller 250 (at a welding shop) and 600 for my miller TIG welder (used, from a friend - with 300$ of supplies thrown in) and my aluminum welder is an old Clark welder, that I bought new for 700 (in 1985) ( a consumer unit, but perfect for making AL welds).  Now just the time to use them!


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## MikeInOr

Mauser lover said:


> Just a thought... many (if not most, if not all) states have a section on your form for sales or use tax for things purchased from vendors that don't collect it. Just don't get in trouble...



I live in Oregon... What is sales tax?


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## Dabbler

I live in Alberta - What is sales tax?


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## kb58

Dabbler said:


> I live in Alberta - What is sales tax?


I live in SoCal, what is snow.


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## MikeInOr

kb58 said:


> I live in SoCal, what is snow.



That stuff Californians import from Columbia!


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## Dabbler

'Snow' is the form water comes in naturally.  Sometimes gets converted to 'water', but not often.


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## stioc

I just got the PrimeWeld TIG 225 and as promised here're my initial thoughts. It's a big boy. Had to modify the HF cart and it just *barely* fits. That's a 80cf Argon tank to give you an idea of the scale.

I've only had about 10 mins with it to test the functionality to make sure it wasn't damaged or DOA. FedEx isn't known to baby these 90lbs packages and it had it's share of bruises and tears on the box but it was packed very well inside. Love the real CK torch. Hook up etc was pretty intuitive. The foot pedal moves around on the floor but that can remedied. The arc is nice and smooth.
For stick welding disconnect the "control lead" or it'll wait for you to use that to supply currently to the stinger lol
It's very loud and the fans are on all the time and the air blows from the front and sides.

I haven't dealt with their support so couldn't say how good they are. I did send them a question via email prior to the purchase asking if it can do lift/scratch arc but I never did get a reply but could be different if I called them instead...I hope so lol All in all it's the best TIG I could find for the money!


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## Dabbler

Let us know when you are melting steel, and how it works for you!


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## Mauser lover

Wow... that thing's a monster!


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## stioc

It's a tad lighter than the Hobart but it's definitely longer and taller. The cart's a bit too small for it but I had already bought it in anticipation of the welder so I modified it a bit to make it work.


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## Aaron_W

stioc said:


> Here's a long thread on the Prime Weld TIG along with a video and experiences from the welding web forum https://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?700179-Primeweld-AC-DC-Tig-225X



That is an interesting thread, particularly the discussion about the proliferation of capable low budget welders and how that will shake out long term. 

It seems like Lincoln and Miller are addressing the home welder market with more expensive, but also more user friendly machines that have smart settings, Miller 215, 220, Lincoln 210 which provide the recommended settings for you based on the size and material type that you are welding.


As an inexperienced welder I look at that Primeweld with all those knobs and switches and it reminds me of the flight engineers console of a B36.  That is a lot of moving parts, although I'm sure not as complicated as it looks once you become familiar with it.


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## MikeInOr

Aaron_W said:


> That is an interesting thread, particularly the discussion about the proliferation of capable low budget welders and how that will shake out long term.
> 
> It seems like Lincoln and Miller are addressing the home welder market with more expensive, but also more user friendly machines that have smart settings, Miller 215, 220, Lincoln 210 which provide the recommended settings for you based on the size and material type that you are welding.
> 
> 
> As an inexperienced welder I look at that Primeweld with all those knobs and switches and it reminds me of the flight engineers console of a B36.  That is a lot of moving parts, although I'm sure not as complicated as it looks once you become familiar with it.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 295291



I thought all those knobs on the Primeweld looked a little intimidating too... but if you actually look at a closeup of the control panel they make perfect sense and are layed out very logically.  My understanding is that many of the controls are only used when you are not using the pedal to set ramp in ramp out settings.


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## Aaron_W

MikeInOr said:


> I thought all those knobs on the Primeweld looked a little intimidating too... but if you actually look at a closeup of the control panel they make perfect sense and are layed out very logically.  My understanding is that many of the controls are only used when you are not using the pedal to set ramp in ramp out settings.



Yeah, I watched the video posted up thread and agree that many look like something you would only occasionally need to adjust once you set it up the way you like it. I'm guessing in reality it probably isn't much different than any other TIG machine, just that the others hide those adjustments within their digital interface instead of having a knob for each one. Maybe the welding version of change gears vs QCGB.


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## stioc

My previous TIG was a scratch tig with an add on gas torch to an old Lincoln ac/dc stick welder. So I too was a bit confused when I first saw all those knobs but as @MikeInOr said they're actually pretty logical and for the most part fairly easy to understand.  Don't let that discourage you. More knobs means more control as you get experienced.


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## Aaron_W

stioc said:


> My previous TIG was a scratch tig with an add on gas torch to an old Lincoln ac/dc stick welder. So I too was a bit confused when I first saw all those knobs but as @MikeInOr said they're actually pretty logical and for the most part fairly easy to understand.  Don't let that discourage you. More knobs means more control as you get experienced.




I ended up getting a Miller Multimatic 220. I really liked the auto set and quick tech (instant switch between functions) features and with my limited space I really like having MIG, TIG and Stick in one machine. It was a lot more than I planned to spend, but hopefully it will be the first and last welder that I buy.


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## roadie33

stioc said:


> It's a tad lighter than the Hobart but it's definitely longer and taller. The cart's a bit too small for it but I had already bought it in anticipation of the welder so I modified it a bit to make it work.



The Weld Kart is usually the first thing someone builds when the buy a new welder.
That way you can set it up to fit your specific welder and accessories like a future water cooler, rod tube storage rack or a plasma torch on a lower shelf.


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## stioc

roadie33 said:


> The Weld Kart is usually the first thing someone builds when the buy a new welder.
> That way you can set it up to fit your specific welder and accessories like a future water cooler, rod tube storage rack or a plasma torch on a lower shelf.



Very true, I'm more of a "can't even get material for the price of this cart, I'll just modify it to suit my immediate needs..." kinda guy. 12 yrs later the Hobart's still on the same cart and works well enough I've left it alone


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## stioc

The foot pedal is new to me so I'm not good with it (a few weeks worth of scratch tig experience with a DC stick welder prior to this purchase) but this welder seems to weld way better than my skill level. Pretty happy with it so far.


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