# Inapropriate Warnings



## savarin (Oct 5, 2015)

The other day our local police were on TV talking about the unprecedented number of car thefts and warning everyone to sleep with their keys under the pillow.
Well excuse me but the victims are not the perpetrators of these crimes the low lives who break into the houses to steal the keys are.
Just because I dont hide my car keys in my house so they are impossible to find does not make me the guilty party here.
I would like to promote open season on these low lives and I think many others would as well. Maybe thats why they took all our guns away.


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## middle.road (Oct 6, 2015)

Breaking in to a house to steal the car keys? You gotta be kidding - right? Are you trying to come up with some sort of new TV show concept. 
The results would be interesting if those types of low-lifes tried that in East TN.


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## davidh (Oct 6, 2015)

my house is NOT a gun free zone. . .   locked and loaded, as they say. . .


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## churchjw (Oct 6, 2015)

Yea someone breaking in would have other things to worry about.  They wont need my car.


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## Billh50 (Oct 6, 2015)

The only thing someone breaking into my house would need is the coroner.


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## ogberi (Oct 6, 2015)

.45 revolver in the nightstand, loaded with semi-jacketed ballistic home defense rounds.  No muss, no fuss, just point and toggle it off.  Shotgun close at hand, 20ga loaded with buckshot, 3 round clip.  Another semiauto elsewhere in the house, close at hand.  And a baseball bat by the door.  .22 in the shop loaded with ratshot for rats (2 or 4 legged variety) with semijacketed hollow points only a clip change & 1 round away.
Anybody barges in my house, they'll need more than band-aids.


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## brav65 (Oct 6, 2015)

I advocate for an instant weight gain program through lead injection for all uninvited guests.


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## higgite (Oct 6, 2015)

savarin said:


> The other day our local police were on TV talking about the unprecedented number of car thefts and warning everyone to sleep with their keys under the pillow.


I suppose their next suggestion will be to sleep with your house keys under your pillow to keep burglars from breaking in to steal your car keys....  from under your pillow. 

Tom


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## savarin (Oct 6, 2015)

Unfortunately we are not allowed to resort to any of the above measures and if we catch them in the act and hurt them then we are the ones who get charged.
Theres something very screwy about modern law when the crims get more protection than their victims.
I would like to see the laws change to where those who choose to live outside the laws of society then forfeit any protection those laws would have given them.
I think we all want the following to be true - pity it wasnt and when it was tried the police arrested and charged the caller with filing a false report.

George Phillips of Meridian Mississippi was going up to bed when his wife told him that he'd left the light on in the garden shed, which she could see from the bedroom window. George opened the back door to go turn off the light but saw that there were people in the shed stealing things. 

He phoned the police, who asked "Is someone in your house?" and he said no. Then they said that all patrols were busy, and that he should simply lock his door and an officer would be along when available. 

George said "Okay," hung up, counted to 30, and phoned the police again. "Hello. I just called you a few seconds ago because there were people in my shed. Well, you don't have to worry about them now cause I've just shot them all." Then he hung up. 

Within five minutes three police cars, an Armed Response unit, and an ambulance showed up at the Phillips residence. Of course, the police caught the burglars red-handed. One of the policemen said to George: "I thought you said that you'd shot them!" 

George said, "I thought you said there was nobody available!"


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## GK1918 (Oct 7, 2015)

"BE WHERE  ATTACK CAT ON DUTY"


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## Billh50 (Oct 7, 2015)

Here in Connecticut as long as you are in a room where there is no way to retreat you have the right to shoot. If they are in a shed stealing stuff I do not have the right to shoot. However if they are starting a fire on my property I have the right to shoot as they are then endangering lives. The laws are screwy in some states but then that's why I always have a pack of matches and a gas can handy.


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## stupoty (Oct 7, 2015)

GK1918 said:


> "BE WHERE  ATTACK CAT ON DUTY"



is it like this one 

https://bannelia.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/wliger0107.jpg

stuart


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## Firestopper (Oct 7, 2015)

Yeah, at 52 I have noticed drastic changes in the way crimes are investigate/prosecuted .....or NOT!  Living in the "suburbs" or in the county, sheriffs response times can reach unto 40 min.  In the city, the police won't even send an officer to investigate a burglary after the fact.  One needs to file a report via phone or computer.  When they do catch the scumbags in the act, they find many of them have priors.  Restorative Justice (joke) seems to be the way of many liberal judges.  Then the scumbags graduate to more heinous crimes due to the revolving door system we have in place. 

Heck, many times the police (city) won't respond to a traffic accident unless theres an injury leaving the victim on there own to deal with the mess of insurance claims.  Try and convince the the claim agent (of the person that ran the red light and hit you) you had the green light but have no proof because no citation was issued due to lack of police response.  If you call 911 for a tummy ache you'll always get fire/EMS response within 4 min.
The task of traffic control, evaluation of victims and clearing the roadway has fallen on the F.D. (when no injuries are found).   I would rather take my chances in a structure fire then evaluating MVA victims  during rush hour at a intersection without police controlling traffic.

Back to point, only you can protect yourself and your property.  Living close to the boarder, we have high incidents of vehicle thefts and burglaries.
We work way too hard for the thing we possess and should have the right to protect them/us.  The problem comes when you have to kill a scumbag protecting yourself, then be cleared criminally only to find yourself charged civilly and spending your nest egg defending your actions. 

We have always had GSD, we have four currently and this layer of protection prevents the idiots from considering our home as a target. Most scumbags are lazy and most always chose a "soft target".   If they're so stupid and try our home and make it past 350+ pounds of dogs, then lead they will get.  Arizona has issues, but we can still possess many fire arms banned by many other states. For that, I'm grateful. BTW, I only have one pistola, I too lost all of my weapons in a boating accident some time back.


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## scsmith42 (Oct 7, 2015)

The sign below was a Valentines day gift this year from my wife....  (she's a keeper!)


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## cvairwerks (Oct 7, 2015)

I like the sign that used to be in my friend's front yard:

Trespassers will be shot
Survivors will be shot again


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## Arrak Thumrs (Oct 7, 2015)

Questions:

1) You call the police.  They show up immediately and catch someone trying to break into your car.  At which point, in plain sight, the officer immediately pulls their firearm, shoots and kills the individual where they stand.  How would you perceive the officer's actions?

2) You call the police.  They show up immediately and catch someone trying to break into your car.  The individual is arrested and taken to trial.  The individual is found guilty.  The sentence is death.  You attend and watch the execution.  Does this align with your concept of justice?

3) You find someone trying to break into your car.  You pull your firearm.  The theif also pulls a firearm.  You are shot dead in the ensuing exchange of gunfire.  Was your car worth your life?

4) You find someone trying to break into your car.  You pull your firearm, shoot and kill the intruder.  Now imagine the law states in such an instance that since you took responsibility of the situation, you must also take responsibility of the aftermath.  How would you feel about disposing of the body?  i.e. physically handling the corpse?


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## mike837go (Oct 7, 2015)

Arrak Thumrs said:


> Questions:
> 
> 1) You call the police.  They show up immediately and catch someone trying to break into your car.  At which point, in plain sight, the officer immediately pulls their firearm, shoots and kills the individual where they stand.  How would you perceive the officer's actions?
> 
> ...



Hi Buzzkill,

Your scenarios are NOT Real Life.

The cops don't show up within seconds. Great luck is 5 minutes. Usually closer to 15.

And nobody here has mentioned killing over the car. The subject has been if some low-life breaks into the house to steal the car or whatever else is perceived as valuable to feed his drug habit.

Thieves are looking for an easy score. Show any sign that your home is properly defended and they look elsewhere.

My backhoes are kept in plain sight.


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## dlane (Oct 7, 2015)

When I lived in TX. A friend was tired of his car stereo being stolen x3 the forth one he epoxied treble hooks to the back of it. He lived in a apartment , bout 2weeks later 3:00 am he heard screaming out side , he went out and found a guy stuck under his dash yelling for an ambulance, he got a couple good kicks in to the thief, then the cops came
 " someone else called them " anyhow the thief went to the hospital with stereo attached to his hand, and my friend went to jail for boobytraping someone


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## mike837go (Oct 7, 2015)

Unfortunately, _justice_ is not something to batted about willy-nilly.

Protecting our property with what the law defines as "man-traps" is illegal (at least in NY).

However, if there was lots of sharp edges from recently cut steel behind the radio "bracing" there are no legal implications for the car's owner. But the potential thief still walks away with a bloody hand and nothing to take to the pawn shop.


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## Arrak Thumrs (Oct 7, 2015)

savarin said:


> I would like to promote open season on these low lives...  Maybe thats why they took all our guns away.





Billh50 said:


> The only thing someone breaking into my house would need is the coroner.





ogberi said:


> No muss, no fuss, just point and toggle it off...  Anybody barges in my house, they'll need more than band-aids.





brav65 said:


> I advocate for an instant weight gain program through lead injection for all uninvited guests.





firestopper said:


> The problem comes when you have to kill a scumbag...





cvairwerks said:


> I like the sign...
> Trespassers will be shot
> Survivors will be shot again





mike837go said:


> And nobody here has mentioned killing over the car. The subject has been if some low-life breaks into the house....


I believe the use of deadly force has been raised enough in this thread to cause an examination of the motives and ethics involved in advocating such a response---whether instigated by car theft or home intrusion.

As you say, Mike, there are other, less lethal methods of protecting yourself.  The first two scenarios were an attempt to project actions I believe are promoted in the above quotes onto a third party.  They simultaneously were meant to determine if these actions are perceived as appropriate for those in positions of authority:  law enforcement officers.

I hoped to highlight the very _realistic_ implications of the use of deadly force.  The ethical ramifications are pertinent because I agree with you.  "...Justice is not something to bat about willy-nilly."

This thread disturbs me profoundly.  The implication that I may have 'killed a buzz' is extremely odd to me too.  _Any_ of the scenarios discussed prior to my earlier post would seem to be a buzzkill to begin with.


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## higgite (Oct 7, 2015)

The only time anyone has mentioned the use of deadly force in this thread is in response to unlawful intrusion into their castle. As far as I can tell, even then, only the legal use of deadly force is advocated, nothing illegal, except maybe in jest. The hypothetical scenarios presented above are nothing but straw men. Their purpose is obvious.

Tom


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## dlane (Oct 7, 2015)

Once again in TX , I knew the guy that owned a rifle range, he caught a guy breaking into the gun room one night, the guy lived but with scars, bout 4 months latter he found the same guy in the gun room trying to steal things . There was a struggle,The thief got dead , the owner didn't call police,  he got his backhoe and buried the guy. Unfortunately he buried the thief in the driveway of the gun range, a few months latter some police officers went to the range to shoot , one of them noticed a tennis shoe sticking out of the driveway dug around it and found a foot in it, the owner went to jail for a while ,lost the range to lawyers, but he got off, 
Moral of the story , don't bury tennis shoes, they will float up in the dirt.


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## Firestopper (Oct 7, 2015)

The only realistic scenarios is the idiot trying to steal your car and he pull a gun....But I'm pretty sure I can still wax em!
Like mentioned, who cares its only a car. If its a real nice one it wouldn't be parked in the driveway, but if they come in for the nice ones (or whatever else) then we do what we need to protect our families and property period.


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## Arrak Thumrs (Oct 7, 2015)

Those quotes sound really bloodthirsty to me.  Real heart-pounding, excited boasts about killing an intruder.  That scenario is horrible!  Even if someone breaks into your home, don't you think there is more context required to shoot a person and possibly kill them?  I never saw that raised except tangentially by Billh50.  The discussion jumped straight to lethal threats---in a written tone I perceive as probably being proud of the statement.  Enough chest thumping; think about what is being said here!

A person with wanton disregard for human life would answer #1: perfectly acceptable, #2: yes, #3: yes, #4: who cares?  To answer ANY other way admits that life is something not to be dismissed with such emboldened talk.  I'm not saying you shouldn't defend yourself.  I find it dangerous and irresponsible to frame the necessity of pulling a gun on an intruder as prideful and heroic.  I find that tone really, really disturbing.

Anyway.  Pointless I even posted.  I just get sick of ignoring the rhetoric I read in this thread.  Guns, guns, guns...  always the answer to some imaginary threat:  a car thief that goes out of his way to break into your house to steal your keys.  Enjoy the fiction of that scenario.


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## brav65 (Oct 7, 2015)

Arrak Thumrs said:


> Those quotes sound really bloodthirsty to me.  Real heart-pounding, excited boasts about killing an intruder.  That scenario is horrible!  Even if someone breaks into your home, don't you think there is more context required to shoot a person and possibly kill them?  I never saw that raised except tangentially by Billh50.  The discussion jumped straight to lethal threats---in a written tone I perceive as probably being proud of the statement.  Enough chest thumping; think about what is being said here!
> 
> A person with wanton disregard for human life would answer #1: perfectly acceptable, #2: yes, #3: yes, #4: who cares?  To answer ANY other way admits that life is something not to be dismissed with such emboldened talk.  I'm not saying you shouldn't defend yourself.  I find it dangerous and irresponsible to frame the necessity of pulling a gun on an intruder as prideful and heroic.  I find that tone really, really disturbing.
> 
> Anyway.  Pointless I even posted.  I just get sick of ignoring the rhetoric I read in this thread.  Guns, guns, guns...  always the answer to some imaginary threat:  a car thief that goes out of his way to break into your house to steal your keys.  Enjoy the fiction of that scenario.



I respect your opinion regarding the value of life versus the value of personal property.  I can tell you that I do not personally place the value of personal property over that of a human life.  The only individual who is making that decision is the person who does not respect other peoples property, and in many cases those individuals lives.  By entering into someones home with the intention of stealing something they have placed a lesser value on their own life than obtaining an object.  They then in my view will not value the safety of myself and my family forcing me to protect them.  I will not subject my family to any possibility of injury by this individual who has proven that they place no value on life.  Why then should I value that life?  I can tell you I do not.  I am not running around the streets looking for someone to shoot.  I have carried a gun legally for 25 years and never drew it.  I placed my hand on my weapon only two times, but never even unsnapped my holster.  

It is high time that our society step up and stop looking to blame someone else for everything.  Blaming people who advocate for the defense of their homes and their families is not only ignorant but foolhardy as well.  Those are the same individuals who will be calling for increases in police presence and the increasing prison time...  When it comes down to it this country was built by people who did not wait for anyone to do anything for them.  They took care of themselves.  If you reject the logic behind wanting to defend yourself and your family from people who don't care about themselves or anyone else then you reject the very cornerstone of our nation.


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## sgisler (Oct 7, 2015)

Very Well Put brav. 


Stan,
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ogberi (Oct 7, 2015)

scsmith42 said:


> The sign below was a Valentines day gift this year from my wife....  (she's a keeper!)
> 
> View attachment 112052



Oddly enough, I used to work at a cemetery.  On the burial crew.  Digging graves.  With a backhoe.   Sometimes by hand (in areas where there was no way to get a machine into, or by family request.)  

Did that for a year, then moved on to a job in computers.   I did enjoy working outdoors, it wasn't that bad of a job, and I got to run heavy equipment.  Not to mention.... I buried people.


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## savarin (Oct 7, 2015)

Its an unfortunate reality that there are a small number of people in any society who absolutely refuse to recognise any other persons rights or property or any laws that oil the workings of that society that are supposed to keep all safe.
They only recognise a force greater than they can wield either personally or with their troop.
It is impossible to deal with these people in a civilised manner that the majority have come to operate in because compassion is treated as a weakness to be exploited.
A point of note - A female teacher in our local college of further education was brutally attacked as she was leaving work three weeks ago and put in hospital.
Her car and credit cards taken.
The car was totaled 15 miles away whereupon some of the girls (yes, girls, 6 off them) were captured by the police. The captured girls rolled on the missing ones so all were eventually apprehended.
The girls admitted they didnt target the teacher they were just waiting for someone to get, anyone would do.
Being under 18 if they are given a custodial sentence (case still not before a judge) they will end up in the local youth detention centre else it will be a slap on the wrist and let free.
A close friend of mine works at this centre as a teacher, he likes his job and would like to think he makes a difference but he is the first to admit that the majority in there are only marking time to when they can join the "big house"
Much as we would like to deal with these people in a civilised manner they do not respond to these kinds of overtures.
Another local case in point.
A local business was broken into and trashed causing thousands of dollars of damage.
The police had no idea who did it even with the security cams so nothing official happened.
The owner recognised one of them so took him out into the bush and beat the crap out of him and found the names of all the perps who were involved.
One at a time (it took a couple of weeks) he caught up with each one of them and dished out the same "justice" (not enough for a hospital visit)
The word went through the community to leave that business alone. Result.
Lets not forget, we are not hunting them, they are hunting us.


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## Ulma Doctor (Oct 8, 2015)

It's amazing to me that other's would look at my willingness for self protection , my property or another's of life or property, as an odd behavior.
We should remember that freedom is not free and people whose sensibilities who lie in disarming law abiding Americans or infringing on their 2nd amendment rights are the real criminals here.


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## Billh50 (Oct 8, 2015)

First of all, if someone is breaking into your home while you are there. How do you know they will not do bodily harm to you or your family? There are many instances where a thief has beaten, raped or killed a home owner while committing the burglary. I will not give any thief the chance to do that to me or my family. I do not know of his actual intentions nor will I stop to ask as he may also be armed. To me it comes down to this......which is more important to me....me and my families life or the thiefs? Guess which one I choose?


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## Firestopper (Oct 8, 2015)

Sheeple, they believe the world is safe and wolves are the victims, wake up or the wolf will eat you and your family.


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## Firestopper (Oct 8, 2015)

We recently formed a neighborhood watch program that required attending meeting and signatures to prove to the sheriff's department we where a serious community about fighting crime. After 8-9 months we got the signage placed by the county warning the bad guys. The couple that ram rodded the whole process also started a "Next door"  account and encouraged as many folks to sign up as possible. The platform is similar to Facebook but no silly BS. Its come in handy for lost or found pets as well as other means to get information out quickly.  

So the other day I see an "ALERT" in my email inbox from next-door. This lady wanted to warn the neighborhood that her purse was stolen from her unlocked car "sometime during the night".... Really?  How dumb can people be to think anything inside they're property line is a safe zone with no responsibility on them to make it safe/secure.  Then to post how stupid they are without recognizing it is beyond my comprehension.
I see it like this, She's indirectly inviting the wolfs into our hood by providing a soft target, then is compelled to warn us?  Warning signs do nothing without prevention.


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## Grumpy Gator (Oct 8, 2015)

_O.K. group I'v got to put my Moderator hat on and lock this one down.This is not the right place for the direction this thread has taken._
_No Politics._
_***G***_


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