# Clausing 4914



## architard

Hello all,
A little background first. I am the proud new owner of a Clausing 4914 Lathe. This is my first metal lathe. I've never even run one before. I am however a skilled woodworker and own a small wood lathe, so I'm not exactly new to working with machines and problem solving. I have been reading several machining message boards for a while now, joined the Clausing yahoo group, and have downloaded every pertinent manual, document, and file I can get my hands on. I've also already contacted Clausing Industrial to get as much info out of them as possible. I've also read all the info I can get on inspecting a used lathe. 

With all that being said, I inspected the lathe yesterday and decided it was worth the very low price that man was asking. My limited experience tells me the head stock and the bed ways are both in good condition. The current owner ran it under power to show me it has forward, and reverse, and despite a broken QCGB handle the lead screw does engage. It is missing the handle for the tail stock clamp as well. In my opinion the machine just needs a good dose of TLC. Until I get it home for a cursory cleaning I don't think I'll be able to decide if I'm going to do a complete tear down and re-furbish ala Kennyd, or just a very thorough cleaning ala PurpLev. So I plan on using this thread as a way of querying you guys for as much info you are willing to lend throughout the process.

Which brings me to my first problem. Getting it home. I own a Dodge Dakota pickup. The shop I bought it from has a forklift and could easily put it right into the back of my truck, however I don't believe I can easily get it out of there once I get it home. I've been slowly developing a plan and I wanted to run it by some people with experience moving these machines. 

I am going to rent the smallest U-haul trailer that can handle the weight so that the lathe will be low enough for me to unload. I was going to lay down two 6x6 timbers on the trailer so the seller can lower the lathe with the forklift right down onto these runners. I'd then lag the lathe down to that. Can someone tell me what size the holes are through the leveling feet so I can get the right size lags and washers? I've got plenty of ratcheting tie downs to hold the lathe down. I can back up the trailer right next to the door to my shed. I bought a HF 2 ton shop crane and have several lifting straps. I plan on hoisting the crane up and driving the trailer out. I should be able to maneuver the crane around so that I can lower the lathe onto the sidewalk leading to the door. There is a slight, call it 2" step up into my shed. I'm thinking I'll have the runners long enough so that when I lower the lathe the tips of the runners will be able to reach through the door above this ledge. I can put down steel pipes as rollers under the leading edge. I have a pinch bar that I can then start using to lever the lathe onto the rollers, probably with the help of the crane on the end that's still out of the door. 

Sounds like a lot of work but I think I'll be prepared. Any tips on exactly where to place the lifting straps so to not damage the machine? I know you should run them under the bed NOT the chip tray but I don't know anything else. 

One downside of the low price is this thing doesn't come with ANY tooling whatsoever. So I'll have some forthcoming questions on tool posts and chucks. 

Also as the motor is 220 3phase I'm looking into setting it up on a Teco FM50 VFD. This may sound crazy but my shed does not have permanent power and I currently run a 6" grizzly jointer and a 13" Dewalt Planer off of an extension cord from my apartment. Will this be an issue with this machine on the above mentioned VFD?


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## Kennyd

Welcome to HM :HM1:


I am short on time so my reply will have to be brief for now, key points:

-lathes are very top heavy, you should really consider taking the bed off of the stand to move it.  You also won't need the trailer if you do this

-the fm50 will need 220 volts input, do you have that available?  What HP motor does it have?


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## architard

Kennyd,

I toyed with the thought of ditching the trailer and removing the bed from the base after seeing your photos. How quickly can you disassemble it enough to do that? I'm not sure the seller wants to hang around while I struggle with taking it apart in his shop. It would save me a bit of money and hassle not to have to rent a trailer though. The ultimate benefit would be that I would have much more manageable pieces when I go to unload it as well. 

I hadn't realized the FM50 required 220V. I'll only have 110V available. The motor is 1 HP. Is there a VFD that can operate that size motor off of 110V? 

Thanks for the input.


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## PurpLev

Until a few months ago I would say "I'm envious of that lathe"  

Congrats, and welcome to THM, and Clausing.

I would have to differ with Kenny. and while lathes are indeed top heavy in general, the 4900 are less so than others as they are smaller, and their bases are heavier compared to the heads (in comparison with other heavier lathes 16"+ where the bed+head is heavier compared to the base). I moved mine on a trailer some 300 miles away without bolting it to anything (used 3 straps) and while this was risky to some, it did survive the cross state trip safely and as such required minimal disassembly/work initially. 

I think you can pass a 1/2" stud through the leveling/anti-vibration feet. and if you already have the user manual for the lathe it is actually mentioned there (don't have it in front of me at the moment, but if you don't have it I can look it up later). 

Other than that, I think the trailer + 2Ton lift will work well and will require you for minimal work during the moving process which has enough time consuming steps to it. once you have the lathe in your place, you can take your time taking it apart as you see fit without a time limit. thats my take on it.

As for tooling. Other than steady rest, everything else can be found and managed with the chucks being the hardest to come by because of the threading, but you can get a plain back chuck, and mount it to a pre threaded plate which can be found for these lathes in several online suppliers, the cheapest I've found was at amtools.com  - just make sure they have it in stock as they are not the most responsive at times.

As for the FM50 - not all models require 220v INPUT, I am using FM50-101 which runs on 110v 1ph INPUT and 220 3ph OUTPUT. these are only good for motors up to 3/4HP though, since yours is a 1HP it will require 220v INPUT. Is there any way to wire electical outlets in your garage? sounds like this might be worth it with your machinery and plans long term.

Good luck, and looking forward to seeing this one cleaned up and put to use


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## Charley Davidson

I bought a VFD that converts 110 to 220 3ph & runs a 1hp motor as long as it is 3 amps or less works great on my Brigeport
http://www.temcoindustrialpower.com/...es/C10003.html


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## architard

PurPlev,
I think I'm still leaning in that direction. Your words are encouraging. I've been going through the motions of this delivery in my head over and over and I think I've tweaked a few minor things to make it a bit easier. The important part is I have every step planned out and know what I want to do. Sadly, all my friends think I'm crazy for buying such a heavy piece of equipment and none of them are willing to help me. So it looks like I'll be doing this move on my own. 

Thanks for the link on the back plate. They don't have the correct threads listed on any of their products but you are right, they seem to be pretty low cost. I sent them an email to see if they can get that size. It will be a while till I'll actually have this thing up and running but I'd like to start keeping my eyes open for something that might work. 

I tend to be a frugal person while at the same time respecting the cost of a well made tool. However when I look at the price of a Buck or Bison chuck my jaw drops. What are you guys using on your 4900s? It looked to me like you lucked out and your lathes had chucks when you bought them. 

I found this site which lists a backing plate in the right size, however from the features and specifications it's not clear if this is a backing plate or a chuck. I think it's a backing plate and they have screwed up the description. But it seems very expensive compared to amtools.com  http://www.travers.com/product.asp?r=s&q=item_id+'63-500-481'

I'd imagine I'd have to get the chuck first to know what bolt pattern I need as well. Is that correct?

As far as the VFD goes, I'm going to have to immerse myself into that technology so I can figure out what I can and can't do. Unfortunately I am in a rental apartment and running power out to my shed is not really the easiest option. If I wanted to do it legitimately I'd have to first get my landlord to agree to it and then hire an electrical contractor to do the work. I could physically do it myself, but I'd be doing it without the consent of my landlord and without a building permit so that could get squirly fast. It's not really a garage, its more of a storage shed where I keep my lumber supply. Less than ideal obviously but its what I have to work with. I'd love to find an empty industrial space but real estate in this town is pretty ridiculous.


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## Kennyd

Do you have any photos or a list of exactly comes with your machine?  I can't imagine the seller keeping things like chucks since they are pretty machine specific.

How far are you going to get this lathe?

The VFD Charley linked looks perfect for your situation.

I see you are in DC, I am less than 1.5 hours from you.  I may have any extra chuck I could set you up with...


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## PurpLev

np.

I mostly used the 3 jaw scroll chuck that came with the lathe as it was simple to use, but now got a 4 independent jaws chuck that I can dial in which I prefer to use for precision work, and I also got an ER collet chuck for yet even better precision which I am in the midst of setting up with a back place. 

I actually got a 6" back plate from the link I mentioned above for the clausing 4900 spindle at 1-3/4"x8tpi from them. the plate they didn't have in stock was a 3" one for the ER collect chuck that I had to fabricate with another back plate I recently got.

I'd also be curious as to what DOES come with the lathe. I've seen some lathes being sold 'bare' and stripped of all toolings (chucks included) but am hoping you'd get at least a chuck, and a center? (hopefully more)

if you need a tool post - I have a lamp post with some tool holders that I got with my lathe I could set you up with (I'm using an PhaseII AXA tool holder myself.


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## architard

Exactly squat comes with this machine. No chuck, no tool post, no centers. From what the seller tells me, a few years ago his shop had bought several used lathes and mills planning on expanding their capabilities, needless to say I think they ended up shrinking instead of expanding, as did a lot of places in the last few years. Am I falling for a sob story? Did they start parting this lathe out before I came along? Who knows. I'm not the best at reading people but I don't think this guy is trying to pull a fast one on me. There was a "faceplate" that was on the lathe when I looked at it, but sadly I didn't notice if it was actually a faceplate or a chuck backplate. I'll have to see what it was when I pick the lathe up.

I'm not totally naive in that I do know that tooling can cost as much as the lathe. I got what I consider to  be a very low price on the lathe. With the money I have left over I can pick up enough tooling to get working. I'll probably go the secondhand route for most of it and be patient since it will probably be a while till I can actually run this thing anyway. I've been waiting 11 years to get a metal lathe, so its not like waiting a bit longer is going to kill me.

PurPlev, I'll have to check their site again, I was looking for a 5" thinking I'd pick up a 5" 3 jaw scroll chuck first and get a  6" 4 jaw later. Now it might just depend on what comes up first. So you find that you use the 3 jaw more, and throw on the 4 jaw when you need to be more precise? 

How do you like the Phase II? I'd love to get an Aloris but unless I come across a very discounted one I don't think I can afford one. I may take you up on the lantern post, we'll have to see what I can pick up between now and getting the lathe running. 

Kennyd, I'm travelling about 2 hours to PA to get it. It's very close to where I grew up, and close to my mom and  my sister's house so it's not that inconvenient to me. Yeah, I noticed you were in MD not that far. Again, depending on what I can find between now and when Ig et this running I may take you up on that chuck offer.

You guys on this board are very kind for offering such things. I'm glad I joined. 

Thanks again for all your help.


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## architard

On the topic of Tool Holders. I just went to the Aloris site and saw they have a chart that has QCTP size recommendations for popular lathes. http://www.aloris.com/catalog/aloris_p29.pdf

 For the 4900's they recommend a CXA! That seems a bit large to me.


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## PurpLev

architard said:


> So you find that you use the 3 jaw more, and throw on the 4 jaw when you need to be more precise?



that is correct, unless I already have the 4 jaw on it, and am lazy, and just leave it on  I like independent chucks and being able to dial parts in.



architard said:


> How do you like the Phase II? I'd love to get an Aloris but unless I come across a very discounted one I don't think I can afford one. I may take you up on the lantern post, we'll have to see what I can pick up between now and getting the lathe running.


I really like the quick change, and when I got this lathe, used the lantern tool post for a while until I fabricated the T-nut and stud for the QCTP, and I must say it was such a treat to get back to the QCTP and the repeatability of tool height and positioning without having to fuss around. I don't think I would be able to afford an 'aloris' unless someone gave me one (read - real cheap), and the phase II seems to be OK - good enough for me (I have the wedge type - not the piston). 

For what it's worth, I've seen these lathes go on sale bare naked with absolutely nothing included, how it came to that is unknown to me as I'd think each lathe had chucks/toolings at some point, but I guess at the selling point it doesn't make much of a difference as to where those are... as long as you get a good deal, everything else can be fabricated/added later on - as long as you are aware of the price you'll pay for those 'extras'

good luck. and hoping to see some pictures soon (offer still stands)


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## architard

Well I forgot to take pictures when I was there to check it out. But here are some pictures I got from ebay. Hopefully this link works. I'm getting more and more annoyed with Google everyday now. 

https://plus.google.com/photos/1097...s/5763559376137343601?authkey=CMWwiqbvpp2wsgE


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## architard

Looking a little more into the VFD...

According to the literature and the specs the FM50-101-C can run a 1HP 220V 3 Phase motor off of 110V single phase power. Unless I'm not reading something right. 

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.193/.f

And it's half the price of the WEG CFW model that Charley mentioned.


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## PurpLev

architard said:


> Looking a little more into the VFD...
> 
> According to the literature and the specs the FM50-101-C can run a 1HP 220V 3 Phase motor off of 110V single phase power. Unless I'm not reading something right.
> 
> http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.193/.f
> 
> And it's half the price of the WEG CFW model that Charley mentioned.



you are correct... in my mind I just always try to overshoot for hp, so for a 1hp motor ,I'll try to get a 1.5hp driver... I guess I just got used to it too much. but back to the subject - you are correct, the 101 should drive up to 1hp and run on 110. it's pretty cheap for what it is, and worth a shot! (makes things easier on you doesn't it?)


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## Charley Davidson

architard said:


> And it's half the price of the WEG CFW model that Charley mentioned.



Thanks for pointing that out now:*****slap2:


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## rebush

architard: Don't know if you got your lathe home yet or not. When I bought my Monarck Model K (3900lbs) the local tow truck company picked it up on a flat-bed roll-back and set it inside the shop almost where it needed to be for less than I could rent a trailer for. To load tie down and unload was under 20 minutes and they have insurance. And I have no back pain. Roger


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## Kennyd

I have an Aloris QCTP on mine, but I got a good deal on it used with some holders.  Where I to need one today, I would have no trouble getting a PhaseII wedge style-there are cheaper ones, but cheaper is not always better as we all know.

Do you have the broken off parts from the gearbox?  It could possibly be brazed...

You are missing several oil cups as well I noticed.  They are cheap from McMaster Carr.

You have a lot of work ahead of you, but it's a fine machine.


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## architard

Kenny, what size Aloris do you have?

I didn't ask if they had the pieces to the gear box. I think this was the condition they bought it in so I doubt it. I may either have to find the parts second hand, or more than likely make them myself. Not exactly sure how I'd do that yet but I have never been one to back down from a challenge like this. I'm sure there is a lot of work coming my way but honestly I'm looking forward to this project. I hope to learn a lot through getting this thing up and running. I don't think there is a better way to get familiar and completely understand your machinery than having to fix it!

I also didn't notice the missing cups. Its funny, I thought I was prepared to look this thing over but I'm realizing a few things that I missed. Maybe I was a bit boat struck, err lathe struck?

Oh and sorry Charley. I want to say in reading a lot in the recent days I've heard people knock on the Teco brand for having poor documentation. I don't know if that's enough to make you feel better though. I think I'm gonna pick one up, we shall see how well it works.


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## Kennyd

The AXA QCTP is the correct for this machine IMHO.


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## PurpLev

Kennyd said:


> The AXA QCTP is the correct for this machine IMHO.


not only honest, but I think a correct opinion ... I concur. the center height of the tool holder is roughly the center line of the lathe spindle giving you full range of going under or over center line with the AXA. anything bigger would probably be sacrificing being able to lower your tools to a certain degree.


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## architard

This is the kind of info I'd be completely without if it weren't for forums like this and people like you. I was checking out an Aloris BXA on ebay. It seems the used BXA's are going cheaper on eBay than the AXA's. I wonder if its simply due to popularity. Given your info I think I'll definitely go with an AXA. I was recently reading elsewhere on this forum that several members are satisfied with Shars Tool. Both on their chucks and their QCTP. I may hold out and see if I can get a second hand Aloris or Dorian but once I get the lathe running, I think there will be a priority to purchase enough tooling to get working. 

As far as chucks. I have my eye on a few vintage Cushman chucks. I know these are made in the USA but being older are they worth it? I may do some searching elsewhere to see what other people think about them. The hardest thing is still finding a backplate with the right threads. I can't imagine I'd want my first attempt at a lathe project to be making my own backplate. 

I think my highest priorities right now are the VFD, Chuck, and Toolpost/toolholders. But I know I need a few other things. Tool bits, dead center, etc. Where do you guys get those sorts of things? I was thinking of starting out with an indexable carbide set for ease of use without much experience grinding HSS tools. I was also thinking of just ordering all the smaller misc. stuff through the same place to save on shipping. How is Grizzly on that stuff? Is Enco cheaper? I know I could ask this sort of thing in the other forums but you guys have already helped me a lot!


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## PurpLev

while each small part could be not too expensive (oil cups for example) they do add up, and shipping on them also adds a good chunk of expense... just make sure you calculate for all of those ahead of time.

As for suppliers for tooling. I find Grizzly lacking and more aimed at the lower end occasional user with lower grade toolings (for most - not exlusively) and Enco's website is plain HORRIBLE to try and find anything. so for tooling and what not I like to use other places which I find very friendly, cost effective, and with high quality stuff:
http://www.tools4cheap.net/ is a great place, Jeff is very knowledgeable and friendly and is very responsive A+++
amtools.com has a good selection of back plates (you can always turn down a 6" plate to 5" if they don't have a 5" one) esp. for 4900 owners
http://www.cdcotools.com/ is another good place for quality and cost effective plate for tooling etc. I've gotten good products from them as well.

When I got my first lathe it came with some brazes carbide cutters. I quickly realized that I would much prefer to use HSS and grind my own. if you do woodworking - this should not be new territory for you. but getting a carbide insert toolings would simplify this 'first' step for you I reckon. if you do go that route - get a good set.


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## Kennyd

-I have bought a ton of stuff from Enco.  I like the catalogs they send out as well-they will (or at least used to) send you a large master catalog if you call and ask.  I have heard to many bad things about CCDO to even bother trying.  Shars and Tools4Cheap seem to have a good reputation but I can personally comment on them.
-My Aloris stuff came from the classifieds on the PM site, but I hear they changed it all and it pretty much sucks now.  I have also bought some holders from eBay and a few at the Cabin Fever show in York, PA.
-Luckily my machine came with 2 backplates, One 5" and one 6" 3-jaw chucks, and a 5" jaw.  I recently found a new 6" 4-jaw on eBay with the correct backplate for a great price as well.  It also came with a good deal of tooling as well.
-Carbide can be tricky, I have had good success with it but others have not-maybe its because I don't know any better? A decent carbide inserted parting tool is a must I think also.  I have had to grind some bits however for special projects, you can never eliminate ever having to use HSS.
-My advice: get it home and start working on it...and read a lot!  Don't go spending any more money just yet on stuff.  I am sure I can help out some to get you started.


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## architard

I've been thinking about the chuck problem. I think I have a plan. I wanted to eventually have a 5" 3 jaw scroll chuck and a 6" 4 jaw independent chuck. Everything I read suggests half your swing for your 3 jaw and add one inch to that for your 4 jaw. I have no idea why. 

Amtools has the 6" backing plate that fits the spindle. It is drilled for 3 mounting bolts. It's also really cheap at $14.99. I'll buy that, then I'll purchase a 6" 4 Jaw independent chuck with a 3 bolt mounting pattern. (haven't decided which brand yet). That way I'll be up and running and I can do a lot of practicing. Once I'm up to speed on things then I'll buy a backing plate blank and machine my own 5" adapter for a 3 jaw chuck.

Does the brand of 4 jaw matter all that much? As far as I see it, the whole point of a 4 jaw is that you can dial your work piece in, much more accurately than a 3 jaw just as a function of how it works. So does the 4 jaw have to be as high quality as the 3 jaw? I'm probably making an excuse to myself to buy something cheaper I just wanted to think it through. 

On another note I've started a blog to document this wonderful little project. 

http://clausing4914.blogspot.com/


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## PurpLev

I think that if you are to have only 1 chuck - a 4 jaw independent is by far more versatile than a 3 jaw scroll chuck - not only can you dial in parts better, you can also hold square and odd-shaped parts which you cannot with a 3 jaw chuck.

that said, you'd still need to machine your back plate to fit your 4 jaw chuck (registration and shoulder). but you can be less precise about it (a bit more room for error) since the jaws will be independent anyways (although you should still aim for best tight fit nonetheless). as for the holes - don't worry about it too much, as the pattern might not match between the plate and the chuck, and you'd just need to drill/tap new holes.

you can get an idea how to machine/fit your chuck to a back plate here:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/latheparts/page7.html
or here:
http://metalwebnews.org/mr-tools/lathe-chucks.pdf

good luck


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## architard

Yeah I should mention that I don't plan on buying anything till I get it home and at least turning. Well with the exception of the VFD so it can actually turn! There are a lot of minor expenses with just moving the thing home, trailer rental, cribbing, plywood, lifting straps, shop crane. I want to let me bank account recover a bit from the purchase first before I start buying up all this tooling.

As far as reading, I've been reading up on this stuff for years. I have several books. How to run a lathe, Machine Shop Practice Vol 1, Home Machinist Handbook. Etc... I'm sure a lot of the stuff I've been reading will make a lot more sense with an actual lathe right in front of me though.

Already read the lathes.co.uk stuff on fitting lathe chucks. I love that site. I can spend hours on it just reading about machines. 

The other one is new, I'll have to check that one out.


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## architard

Here's a random question to you guys regarding the overall restoration. Do either of you have a parts washer? Do you think it's worth picking one up to de-grease and clean parts?


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## Kennyd

architard said:


> Here's a random question to you guys regarding the overall restoration. Do either of you have a parts washer? Do you think it's worth picking one up to de-grease and clean parts?



No, I don't have one-it would sit around to much unused.  I did all my cleaning in a small pan with mineral spirits, a brush, and green scotchbrite pads. I removed the paint with lacquer thinner.


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## PurpLev

Kennyd said:


> No, I don't have one-it would sit around to much unused.  I did all my cleaning in a small pan with mineral spirits, a brush, and green scotchbrite pads. I removed the paint with lacquer thinner.



seems like this thread is full of both-sides-of-the-fence responses so here's another one  I DO have a small parts washer. I had wanted to get one for a while now and when I bought my lathe decided it was the right time as I used it to clean all the small parts (anything other than the base, motor, and headstock went in it). I used a biodegradable water based solution which is soft and not harmful on the environment and on the skin and was able to wash all the grease off my hands before going to the bathroom and washing it 'properly' (without marring the bathroom with mysterious black spots..... hmmm ... wasn't me...). was it necessary? probably not. but it sure made things easier especially with cleaning the lathe in a shared basement with the laundry and other things that cannot come in contact with anything dirty. I also like restoring old woodworking tools and whatnot which was the original purpose for the parts washer. like Kenny said - it is mostly stored away unused, awaiting the projects that will require it at which point it's handy to have. the ongoing stream of solution really cleans off the parts nicely without having to scrub much, and then you can give an extra 'push' with the brush for some more persistent dirt, and or to speed things up. you can always sell it once you are done with the lathe if you don't have space/need for it. definitely not a necessity though, but 'nice to have'


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## Charley Davidson

architard said:


> Here's a random question to you guys regarding the overall restoration. Do either of you have a parts washer? Do you think it's worth picking one up to de-grease and clean parts?



Your working out of a shed, that should answer your question about needing a parts washer.  Save the space for something much more needed.

On your backing plate with the 3 bolt holes & your chuck with 3 holes probably ain't gonna match up.


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## architard

Well, honestly its great to hear from both sides of the fence. Gives me a lot to think about on these issues. Especially since you both have 4900's. I was thinking about getting one of those little HF plastic parts washers, almost every review though said the pump mounting bracket, being plastic was broken when they got it. The next HF model up is $100. I think that $100 might be better spent on tooling. Maybe I'll get started restoring this thing and see if I really think it will be worth it. I could see it coming in handy down the line but I'm not sure I have the room for it. Although with the top of it closed, it does make a handy flat spot to store more junk! 

I bought some wood at HD today to help with the delivery. I went with 4x4 timbers for skids. I'm going to build a platform of 2x3s and 3/4" plywood in front of my shed door to bring my sidewalk height up to my sheds floor height, as well as smooth out the cracked sidewalk. I'm spacing the 2x3s about 10 inches apart so I think it should be able to take the weight of the lathe. There is also about a 9" difference in height between my alley and the platform top which is going to be a bit of a problem. I think I have a strategy to handle that as well though. I'm scheduled to do all this lathe moving next Saturday. I'll take plenty of pictures and put them up on my blog.


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## Tony Wells

Well, I do have one. It's the kind that has a 35 gallon barrel with a rectangular tub on top with a submersible pump, and uses water as a "filter". I got in a trade but used to use it pretty regularly to wash parts with mineral spirits or Stoddard solvent before packing to ship. Of course, all sort of other things were washed, like small engines when I had to work on them, any machine components that needed a good degreasing, etc. I don't use it much any more. In fact, it's in storage. but if I need it, out it comes easily enough. I think it is worthwhile, myself.


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## PurpLev

architard said:


> I was thinking about getting one of those little HF plastic parts washers, almost every review though said the pump mounting bracket, being plastic was broken when they got it. The next HF model up is $100. I think that $100 might be better spent on tooling. Maybe I'll get started restoring this thing and see if I really think it will be worth it. I could see it coming in handy down the line but I'm not sure I have the room for it. Although with the top of it closed, it does make a handy flat spot to store more junk!



If anything do not get a PLASTIC parts washer... you'd want something more durable - for handling the metal parts (heavy, can nick and break plastic) as well as handling solvents (some can eat up the plastic). But as mentioned - with limited space, and for not really a necessity , I think getting the lathe, and starting to work on it might be the better alternative - you can always get one if NEED BE.


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## architard

I have found a lot of advice on leveling a lathe, but nothing specifically about the type of level. Figured I'd ask here since you've all given me good advice already. 

I believe you need to use a precision level like a Starrett No. 98. I'm assuming my run of the mill woodworking level is not precise enough? 

Does it matter what length the precision level is? A few Starrett 98-4 (4") are on eBay for less than $50. I'm a little worried about buying a precision instrument like that from eBay though, you never know if someone is selling you a piece of junk.

Should I just get one of the import precision levels from Shars or the like?


----------



## architard

Just heard from the seller. He confirmed that the "plate" that was with the lathe is indeed a chuck backplate threaded for the 1 3/4-8 spindle. Now I'm wondering if there will be enough "meat" on the thing to machine it to fit a new chuck.


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## PurpLev

architard said:


> I believe you need to use a precision level like a Starrett No. 98. I'm assuming my run of the mill woodworking level is not precise enough?
> 
> Does it matter what length the precision level is? A few Starrett 98-4 (4") are on eBay for less than $50. I'm a little worried about buying a precision instrument like that from eBay though, you never know if someone is selling you a piece of junk.



you are correct, you want a precision level. the clausing manual suggest to use AT LEAST a 6" level (8" and 12" are good too, but are more expensive) since you'd need to position the level across the 2 ways and the 4" won't have enough reach.

getting something like this on eBay is a risk (I failed with a mitty mic... but knowing it was a risk only bought it at a very low price and can still use it for parts - which I will). I did get my 6" level on eBay and ended up having to calibrate it (the starretts are adjustable so you can level your level with a set screw). if the sale is guaranteed on DOA you might be OK. there are other levels out there that could be just as good for hobby use though (imports) I would not cross them out (seen one at tools4cheap at a reasonable price for I believe what was an 8").

like any other precision tool - get something that will last, so that when the day comes and you need it to perform, it won't fail you. a little investment today goes a long way, especially with precision measuring tools



architard said:


> Just heard from the seller. He confirmed that the "plate" that was with the lathe is indeed a chuck backplate threaded for the 1 3/4-8 spindle. Now I'm wondering if there will be enough "meat" on the thing to machine it to fit a new chuck.



thats great news - as long as you have something to work with I wouldn't worry much about it right now since you'll have PLENTY of time to measure it and so your research while the lathe is being cleaned (NOT a 2 hour job  )


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## architard

Yeah after I asked about what size I needed I read back through the manual and saw that you need at least a 6" level. I ended up winning an eBay auction for a used Starrett 98-6 for a reasonable price, and the seller offers a 30 money back return policy. So if it's junk I can send it back. 

I also ordered the VFD today. I probably won't be purchasing anything else until I get this thing home. I figure with the VFD and the level, I can get this thing set up enough to run. 

I've been spending the day cleaning up the shed where the lathe is going to go. After double checking some measurements, I realized just how close of a squeeze this is going to be. I'll take some pictures and update my blog sometime soon.

Thanks again for all the advice!


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## architard

Ok so I know I said I wasn't going to buy anything else until I got this thing home. But I just can't help myself. Really, I'm such a took junky. I think I need a 12 step program to kick the habit. :lmao: 

I found a nice used Buck 5" 3 jaw on eBay for a pretty good price. With luck I'll be able to get that chuck back plate that's currently on the lathe to mate up to it. Then I'll be up and running. 

Well almost. I still need a tool post and some tool bits. Oh, and some lubricants. I still have some money left over from my "lathe" budget burning a hole in my pocket.

I think I'm leaning towards the Shars axa wedge type QCTP. Again, I keep reading good things about it. I know Sharon noted that since I'm a woodworker I'm no stranger to sharpening tools, and wouldn't have any problems with using HSS tool bits. But I'm still thinking that a set of carbides would be worth having. I've read some prefer the brazed over the indexable. Any suggestions? I'm definately going to pick up some HSS bits since they are so cheap. What size do you use? I haven't read much on why you'd use a 1/2" bit over a 1/4" bit. 

Thanks again!


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## architard

Well, chalk this one up to getting a little overzealous on tool purchasing. I received the 5" 3 jaw buck chuck today. It's in really nice shape. I don't have any idea to its accuracy since I can't test it on the lathe yet. 

The problem is what I thought to be a plain back chuck with a 1/2"-8 backing plate, is in reality a chuck with an integral 1-1/2"-8 thread. No backing plate.'

Aww shucks. The seller has a 30 day money back guarantee. I'll have to contact him and see if that applies to being a dumb a#s!

If I can't send it back I doubt I'll have a problem re-selling it.


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## PurpLev

oooooh, bummers.

hopefully a lesson learnt? 

see if the seller can take it back (might not pay for return shipping though) - worst case I'm sure it'll resell sooner or later. 

when is the lathe coming home?


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## architard

Yes a lesson learnt. I had bid on one before, but before I bid I made sure I asked the seller that it was a plain back chuck. I subsequently didn't win that particular chuck. Then the next time I actually made a bid I didn't confirm, and ended up winning it. Like I said, its a shame, it seems to be a very nice buck chuck for the price I paid.

I have to email the seller, He has a 100% satisfaction guarantee on a little note with this email address that was on the top of the packaging. It will cost me $12 or so to ship it back. No biggie.

The lathe comes home tomorrow! Finally. Of course, the weather forecast is calling for an 40-60% chance of rain showers between here and PA for tomorrow. Perfect time to be moving a precision hunk of cast iron!

I'll make sure my camera is charged and I take plenty of pictures of the move. I know we all love pictures!

Wish me luck!


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## Kennyd

architard said:


> The lathe comes home tomorrow! Finally. Of course, the weather forecast is calling for an 40-60% chance of rain showers between here and PA for tomorrow. Perfect time to be moving a precision hunk of cast iron!
> 
> I'll make sure my camera is charged and I take plenty of pictures of the move. I know we all love pictures!
> 
> Wish me luck!



I've been thinking about you today, the weather sure is crappy for moving anything other than a beer to ones mouth :drink2: Pretty much solid rain all day-but we sure do need it.


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## PurpLev

Kennyd said:


> I've been thinking about you today, the weather sure is crappy for moving anything other than a beer to ones mouth :drink2: Pretty much solid rain all day-but we sure do need it.



Weather is perfect here...you COULD move it here if you want to 

I hope the move is happening positively.good luck


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## architard

Kennyd said:


> I've been thinking about you today, the weather sure is crappy for moving anything other than a beer to ones mouth :drink2: Pretty much solid rain all day-but we sure do need it.



You got that right! I'll fill you all in much more later. Worst day to move a lathe ever. It's in the shed. Glad my friend helped, would have never been able to do this by myself. As much as I had planned, things got hairy real fast but we didn't have any major incidents. A lot of standing around in the rain scratching our heads how we were going to actually get it in. Very miserable day. 

Ugh, I'm exhausted.


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## Kennyd

Kent, this guy may be close if you need help: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/7809-Washington-DC-suburbs


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## architard

My friend helped me out yesterday. We haven't known each other too long, he's the husband of a co-worker of mine. But after yesterday he's a real friend. He is a hockey player so it was nice to have a big guy to lend a hand. He said he actually had fun helping me. 

The lathe is in the shed. Still up on it's skids and rollers. Which will help me move it around a bit while I need to get behind it to get to the junction box, etc. while I begin to work on it. It fits just about perfectly. With the shed door shut I will even be able to open the belt cabinet. I think once I get it off the skids I'll be able to actually get into the storage cabinet as well. 

It is absolutely filthy. Every square inch is covered in muck. What do you guys find to be the best de-greaser/general purpose cleaner?

I think I might splurge and get a small parts washer. I've found ones similar in size to the small HF model, yet they are metal. And only about $20 more. 

I was able to get it hooked up to the VFD temporarily just to get it running. I can't believe it actually runs it off the extension cord out to the shed. It's a 12 ga cord, so it should be big enough. I'll have to keep an eye on it when I'm running the motor for long periods of time to see if it's getting hot. 

I'm trying to get it cleaned up enough to make sure that everything functions so far. The power feed works for both the carriage and the cross feed. The half nut works. 

I can't seem to figure out the back gears. When I put it in back gears the spindle won't move at all. I seem to be having some issues with the back gear pin. 

The chuck back plate should be usable. I will try to get a 3 jaw that actually can be used on this plate. 

I've started tearing down a few minor assemblies like the drum switch. Just to get started. 

I might get it to a point where I can turn something, see how accurate it is, then do a complete tear down. What do you think? Should I wait till I can get to that point or should I just start in on it? 

I'll update my blog soon so you can check out pics...


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## Kennyd

I use mineral spirits or K1 kerosene, they are the cheapest-even Wal Mart sells mineral spirits in the paint department.

When you move the rear handle into back-gear, you have to pull the pin OUT that is inside the spindle wheel (left side) or the spindle will be locked. See red arrow:



Have to decided if you are going to just clean it, or do a complete teardown?


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## architard

Thanks Ken. The bull gear pin was stuck. I had been spraying it with PB blaster thinking it was stuck. After I read your post, I went out and levered it gently with a screwdriver and it popped right out. I was then able to engage the back gear and get the spindle to move.

It doesn't say it in the manual, but I'd imagine that actually comes in handy when you want to lock the spindle if you need to get off a stuck chuck?

I've got the motor out now and hooked up to the VFD in my workshop. Using what you told me about the drum switch I was able to hook it up as the forward neutral reverse controlling the VFD and motor. You were right, once I had everything in front of me it was a piece of cake. Thanks again! And go ahead and call me a dork for saying this but this VFD is pretty freakin cool.

I have a huge Delta abrasive metal chop saw I picked up on eBay ages ago. It's still in my mom's basement. It has a massive 3 phase motor. I had thought I'd get rid of the thing because it would be too much trouble to run. Now I'm thinking a VFD hooked up to it would be great, you could even slow it down enough to run it as a cold saw. Too bad I don't have any room for it. hmmm...

Anyway, the tool post slide and the compound slide are pretty buggered up. As I was aware the tool post slide is welded on both sides indicating it had been broken at some time. In addition to that, the compound slide has a pin inserted into the end of it limiting it's travel. As far as I can tell it's also limiting me from taking the whole thing apart. I can't imagine why someone would put the pin there. The slide end, where it is inserted, is pretty chewy. Do you think it would be ok to carefully cut this pin off with a cut off disk? Then file it down flush the way it should be?

Also I can't tell from the exploded diagram but is the compound screw supposed to be two pieces? It looks to me like it was also broken at some point. The acme screw was held onto the rest of the shaft with a flat head brass screw and nut that do not look original at all. Also where the shaft attaches to the acme screw looks like it was welded on.

Another thing I noticed is that the tail stock handle was broken, and re-welded as well. I'm starting to wonder how bad this thing is. I think the main thing is, the ways are in good shape and the spindles in great shape too. Everything else I can fix.

To answer your question, this thing is so nasty I think it's going to take a complete tear down just to get it clean, and if I have it completely apart I might as well do a full on restore. I'm actually surprised how much I've got done in just one day. Of course it's always much easier taking it apart than putting back together. 

By the way, how much paint did it take to do your machine? Is the TSC light ford gray almost white? It looks that way in your photos. Did you use the catalyst hardener with that paint? Did you brush it on, spray or both?


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## PurpLev

looks good - don't be too hard on yourself, moving a lathe with just 2 people like that is no joke. you did well! pat yourself on the back and smile.

I would recommend taking the opportunity that you are not tooled up and taking the lathe apart and cleaning it NOW - once you have it tooled up and start turning you will NOT want to stop and have a long break in work to do the clean up (it's just too addictive).


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## architard

Sharon, I was thinking the same thing. Once I have it apart, I might as well take care of it all now. Only I think I'm going to go one step further and follow Ken's example and paint as well. I like restoring machinery so why not make a project of it. It's going to be some time before I get all the tooling anyway. All of us must have the same personalities because I agree, I think I'll be too addicted to making chips to stop and tear it down.

My biggest problem right now is I'm rapidly running out of room to do anything. When I got the lathe I stopped at my mom's house and grabbed all of my mechanics tools, an air compressor, etc etc etc. I have no idea where I'm going to put this parts washer when I get it. Plus, the lathe seems to take up a lot more room when it's in pieces than when it's together.

I have to admit, I had a fun time fooling around with this thing yesterday. I went through about 20 pairs of nitrile gloves and I still can't get the dirt from under my fingernails. )


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## Kennyd

See my answers in RED


Thanks Ken. The bull gear pin was stuck. I had been spraying it with PB blaster thinking it was stuck. After I read your post, I went out and levered it gently with a screwdriver and it popped right out. I was then able to engage the back gear and get the spindle to move.

It doesn't say it in the manual, but I'd imagine that actually comes in handy when you want to lock the spindle if you need to get off a stuck chuck?
I have read that is a no-no because you can break a gear tooth. But I have used that method in general practice (Not a "stuck" chuch however)

I've got the motor out now and hooked up to the VFD in my workshop. Using what you told me about the drum switch I was able to hook it up as the forward neutral reverse controlling the VFD and motor. You were right, once I had everything in front of me it was a piece of cake. Thanks again! And go ahead and call me a dork for saying this but this VFD is pretty freakin cool.
Yes, they are pretty freakin' cool!

I have a huge Delta abrasive metal chop saw I picked up on eBay ages ago. It's still in my mom's basement. It has a massive 3 phase motor. I had thought I'd get rid of the thing because it would be too much trouble to run. Now I'm thinking a VFD hooked up to it would be great, you could even slow it down enough to run it as a cold saw. Too bad I don't have any room for it. hmmm...

Anyway, the tool post slide and the compound slide are pretty buggered up. As I was aware the tool post slide is welded on both sides indicating it had been broken at some time. In addition to that, the compound slide has a pin inserted into the end of it limiting it's travel. As far as I can tell it's also limiting me from taking the whole thing apart. I can't imagine why someone would put the pin there. The slide end, where it is inserted, is pretty chewy. Do you think it would be ok to carefully cut this pin off with a cut off disk? Then file it down flush the way it should be?
Yeah, I don't see why that is there.  maybe a little heat on it and you could pull it out?  The proper "limit" is a screw in the end of the dovetail with a washer on it.

Also I can't tell from the exploded diagram but is the compound screw supposed to be two pieces? It looks to me like it was also broken at some point. The acme screw was held onto the rest of the shaft with a flat head brass screw and nut that do not look original at all. Also where the shaft attaches to the acme screw looks like it was welded on.
I can't remember exactly. In this picture-the screw on the left-just in front of the gear looks like a pin.  I did not take this apart.



Another thing I noticed is that the tail stock handle was broken, and re-welded as well. I'm starting to wonder how bad this thing is. I think the main thing is, the ways are in good shape and the spindles in great shape too. Everything else I can fix.

To answer your question, this thing is so nasty I think it's going to take a complete tear down just to get it clean, and if I have it completely apart I might as well do a full on restore. I'm actually surprised how much I've got done in just one day. Of course it's always much easier taking it apart than putting back together. 

By the way, how much paint did it take to do your machine? Is the TSC light ford gray almost white? It looks that way in your photos. Did you use the catalyst hardener with that paint? Did you brush it on, spray or both?
I think I used 1 quart, possibly  2.  I would not say almost white, I think the flash makes it look  whiter than it is.  I did use the hardener on the big parts.  I used  mostly a small foam roller since it was winter and I could not spray  outside.


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## architard

Thanks for the answers Ken. I was thinking that cutting and filing the pin flush would leave a little less chewy of an edge on the compound than pulling the pin out. I'll have to decide what to do. I do have a torch I can use to heat it up if I decide to pull it out.

I'm pretty sure the cross slide screw has been modified. I'll post pictures later when I have some. I have seen it before where people replace a worn out crosslide screw by cutting the screw part off, turning down the end of the rest of the shaft and sleaving that into a new screw. Only thing is, this repair wasn't done very cleanly. I can probably fix it though. The brass screw that was holding the two pieces together was twisted as hell. 

Well Ken, we will have matching lathes. I ordered some light ford gray from Agrisupply. I would have gotten it from TSC but they don't have the paint available online. In store only and the closest TSC is 45 minutes away. 

The seller of my mismatched 3 jaw is going to give me a refund once I send it back. I'll probably hold off now on the tooling purchases for a while. I won't be able to use anything until I get the lathe back in working condition. 

The incidentals are killing me! I went to HF and HD tonight to pick up a few things, brushes, gear pullers, cleaners, electric terminals, mineral spirits, citristrip, etc etc etc. Over $200 later I'm thinking what did I get myself into! Sure is fun though. )

I told the clerk at HF that I spend too much money there, she said, but you NEED all this stuff. I couldn't help but chuckle, does anyone really NEED all these tools?:lmao:


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## Old Iron

architard said:


> I told the clerk at HF that I spend too much money there, she said, but you NEED all this stuff. I couldn't help but chuckle, does anyone really NEED all these tools?:lmao:




Only us tool junkies!!:rofl:

Paul


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## architard

I know everyone loves pictures. I've updated my blog with a post about moving the lathe. Enjoy!

http://clausing4914.blogspot.com/


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## architard

I've got a bunch of random questions.

Ken, did you prime the metal before you painted it with the Ford Gray? Luckily it's warm enough out where I can probably spray. I have a detail paint gun which I think should be sufficient. I'm stripping with citristrip then wire brushing and I'll wipe down with acetone before applying finish. 

Did you remove the info plates, name plates, etc or did you just mask them off?

It looks to me like you removed the ball oilers when you did your restoration. Do you simply press these out? Did you have to get replacements or can you reuse the originals?

When you guys run the lathe, since you have VFD's, what pulley setting do you normally leave it on? Also, with a VFD do you ever find the need for back gears?

Ken I saw your post on my thread about the tumbler bracket. It looks to me from your picture that the top piece is actually a separate casting that has a roll pin holding it together. Is that original? If so I might be able to repair this without having to buy that entire assembly. 

I may at some point ask one of you if you'd be so kind to take some measurements and possibly draw up a sketch of those pieces I'm missing so that I may be able to fabricate them. 

I just can't get over how filthy this thing is. Who treats their tools like this?


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## PurpLev

not sure if this was aimed at Ken specifically, but I'll add my side of things (unpaint related):

the oil cups are friction fit into the holes, you can pull them out (twist pull action makes it easier) and can be reinstalled later on (I was missing a few and got replacements from mcmaster-carr which I think fit a bit too loosely compared to the factory ones). 

As for VS. I still haven't installed the POT yet (but have purchased it and it's sitting all pretty in it's box on top of the lathe) but I usually change belts and keep the VFD at full 60hz capacity. it's healthier for the motor to run at full speed as it helps it also cool it down (fans) in general. if I need to slightly alter the speed - I'll change the frequency on the VFD to suit the need temporarily. yes I did use the backgear to slow things real down while keepign the motor at full speed. to sum it up, if I can find a belt setting that would give me the proper FPS for the cut while keeping the motor at full speed - I'll use that option over keeping the belt always the same and just using the VFD to control speed. if I need a speed that's 'in-between' then I'll change the frequency on the driver.

production lathes that live in a production warehouse and not in a hobby machinists clean room - are usually filthy like that. just the nature of the beast. these businesses focus on pumping parts out, and not on using that time to despeckle their machines. it's more cost effective to replace a machine after X years than to invest all this time in keeping them clean - as long as they work, they can be filthy as can be.


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## Kennyd

You ask so many random questions in one post this is the best way I know to answer all of them.

I've got a bunch of random questions.

Ken, did you prime the metal before you painted it with the Ford Gray? Luckily it's warm enough out where I can probably spray. I have a detail paint gun which I think should be sufficient. I'm stripping with citristrip then wire brushing and I'll wipe down with acetone before applying finish. 
No, I just put the paint on, it covered well.  The castings are rough enough that the paint bites in good.

Did you remove the info plates, name plates, etc or did you just mask them off?
All removed.

It looks to me like you removed the ball oilers when you did your restoration. Do you simply press these out? Did you have to get replacements or can you reuse the originals?
Pulled some out, and missing some as well. Like Sharon wrote, McMaster has them.

When you guys run the lathe, since you have VFD's, what pulley setting do you normally leave it on? Also, with a VFD do you ever find the need for back gears?
For the work I have done, I am usually in B-450 on the belt and use the VFD as required.  I have also used back gear some.

Ken I saw your post on my thread about the tumbler bracket. It looks to me from your picture that the top piece is actually a separate casting that has a roll pin holding it together. Is that original? If so I might be able to repair this without having to buy that entire assembly. 
I never really noticed it before.  It does look like a possible repair, maybe Sharon can show us his.  But lets talk about this in your other thread to keep things together. 

I may at some point ask one of you if you'd be so kind to take some measurements and possibly draw up a sketch of those pieces I'm missing so that I may be able to fabricate them. 

I just can't get over how filthy this thing is. Who treats their tools like this?


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## Old Iron

I have some parts from a 4914 I had if your interested PM me and I'll give you a price. The compound has never been busted, But you can see where some dumda$$ ran it into the chuck a few times.

Paul


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## Old Iron

I took it apart today to see if I could make a smaller package and found part of the dove tail missing.

So let me know if-n you still want it either way is ok with me.

Paul


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## architard

Well this time before bidding on a chuck I made sure that it was a plain back and the 1 1/2"-8 back plate adapter could be replaced and was NOT integral to the chuck. So I picked up a 5" Burnerd 3 jaw chuck for a pretty nice price. Should be here by Saturday. My small parts washer just got delivered as well.

I've also updated my blog with a new post. No pictures, but a quick video...

http://clausing4914.blogspot.com/

I have a few more posts in the works so stay tuned...


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## architard

My complete tear down has slowed a bit. I'm running out of places to put parts while I work on everything. I did get my parts washer up and running however. This thing is great. I'm glad I spent the money on it. I took Sharon's advice and did not get the crappy plastic HF model. I found one of equal size but with all steel construction. I'd recommend it to anyone with limited space: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OUXAE4/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M2T1_ST1_3p_dp_1

I've also come to a complete halt on disassembling the head stock. I can't seem to remove the hub from the spindle. In the exploded parts diagram it would seem that the only thing holding it onto the spindle is a set screw. I've already backed that set screw out. I have a feeling the hub is just stuck on due to gunk and grime. I've been spraying it with PB blaster. There is no good way to attach a gear puller either, since the spindle is hollow, and I really don't want to do anything that may cause damage to any portion of the headstock, so I'm going about this as gently as I can. 

Any hints on how to remove this stubborn hub? I wouldn't doubt that once I get the hub off some other headstock parts will be stuck as well, but I can't move on till I get this off.


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## PurpLev

congrats. 

that looks like the same parts washer I have, albit mine is black (different seller with a different sticker on it). it leaves some to be desired (small pump/filteration non existent) but it's small, and does a good job for the occasional use.

As for the hub - which part is that in the parts manual? the aluminum hand wheel? or what the aluminum hand wheel is mounted to? 

these parts were not easy to remove as there was a lot of gunk and friction between themselves as well (plus a couple of hidden set screws as far as I can remember.


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## architard

PurpLev said:


> As for the hub - which part is that in the parts manual? the aluminum hand wheel? or what the aluminum hand wheel is mounted to? .



You are correct the part that the aluminum hand wheel is mounted to. I forgot to attach the diagram. 

View attachment headstock.jpg


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## PurpLev

ah yes... those weren't easy. I'm not sure how far into the disassembly of this you are, so I'll be rather general -  I wasn't very precise about this one - but I lightly unbolted all 6 bolts holding those 2 parts together, it wasn't easy as there was a lot of friction there and you cannot (as far as I remember) unbolt the bolts all the way out. so I unbolted them slightly, and wedged the 2 hub components from one another until I was able to release them apart, then I belive there was a 'hidden' set screw in the internal part that was holding it to the spindle.

not sure if this is helpful or if you've already done that or what not...


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## architard

Very helpful actually. I do not see a "hidden set screw" in the exploded diagram. I have found the set screw in the hub itself, and have backed that out. Yes, I had also started backing out the 6 cap screws holding what I believe is the "plate" to the "spindle pulley assembly" as well. I too noticed that you can only back them out so far because with the hub in place there is not enough clearance to totally remove them. According to the diagram there seems to be a roll pin in the hub as well but I can't tell what it's for. As far as I can see it has something to do with the back gear pin.

I will try the "wedge the components against each other" strategy tonight. That seems like the best way forward. I really don't want to be pounding, even gently with a plastic mallet, on anything connected to the spindle. I don't know enough about these machines to know how much is too much so I'm just going to take it easy. It might just take a whole lot of PB blaster. 

Thanks again!


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## architard

Well now I'm stuck. Nothing seems to get this hub loose. I tried loosening those 6 screws and was able to get a little space between the gear hub assembly and the spindle pulley, but working them against each other did absolutely nothing for the hub. So then I tightened it all back up again and using a piece of scrap steel with a dimple in the middle placed over the spindle end, tried a gear puller on the spindle pulley in hopes that if I pulled on that, it would in turn pull on the hub and loosen it. 

No go. All I ended up doing was putting indentations on the inside edge of the spindle pulley. I hope I didn't damage it to the point of causing any problems. I'm getting increasingly frustrated which then causes me to be impatient and try stupid things that may end up breaking something. 

Would I do any damage if I heated the hub up with an oxy-acetylene torch to see if that would encourage it to lose its grip on the spindle? I'm at a loss at this point.


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## PurpLev

AFAIR I had to disassemble the plates from the hub using the 6 bolts in small steps as mentioned earlier, as for the hub itself - I don't remember being able to remove it and just left it in situ along with the rest of the headstock (I did not take apart all the internal gears and the spindle itself from the headstock as can be seen in my blog - linked in my signature line).




when patience is lost, best course of action is sleep on it - tomorrow things might clear up in your head, or on the spindle


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## architard

Well there are two parts, one called just the hub, that the hand wheel is attached to. Then further in there is the "gear hub assembly". From the looks of your pictures, you got the hub, plate, and the spindle pulley assembly off. It looks like your gear hub assembly is where you stopped.

I really need to start being more patient. What I was doing last time with the puller was pulling on the spindle pulley assembly in hopes that it would pull the hub with it. When I looked at the exploded diagram again, I realized there was a snap ring between the hub holding it onto the spindle. So all I was doing was hopelessly pulling it against the snap ring. Ugh. 

So you were right, I slept on it and kind of ignored it while I worked on other things. Then when I was working on getting a puller attached to something else it dawned on me. Don't use the biggest puller I have, use the smallest. That way I was able to get the smaller arms of the puller between the spindle pulley and the hub. I kind of had to assemble the puller in place (wish I had 4 hands). Then the hub came off quite easily. Then I got the somewhat bent snap ring off and pulled the rest off. Luckily I didn't do any damage with my misplaced puller to the spindle. 

Now the outboard side of the spindle is stripped to the point of the bearing take up nut. I can't seem to get that off. But then I realized that I am not sure if Ken even tore his head stock down any more than that. So that was my questions, is it worth taking the head stock completely apart for sake of cleaning and painting? Or should I just leave it at this point and deal with it the way it is. 

I've also got most of the sub assemblies apart. The bed is up on sawhorses; the cabinets, pedestals, etc are all apart. I think I'm making good progress, but I'm starting to realize just how long this is going to take. 

I also received my chuck in the mail. It's a 5" Burnerd. I took it all apart and lubed it up. Looks to be in excellent condition. I'll have to wait and see what kind of runout it has when I get everything up and running... in what seems like forever. lol


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## Kennyd

Kent, I did NOT take the headstock apart.  The bearings felt silky smooth so I did not see the need to.  I did wash it all the internals down with mineral spirits however.

This is as far as I went:


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## architard

Long time since I posted. More stripping, cleaning, cleaning and cleaning. 

I've also run into a few problems. The first I'm really mad at myself for not being a bit more patient. I was using a chain hoist, yes total overkill, to pull the headstock off the lathe. Unfortunately the taper pin wasn't totally lose, the headstock twisted and grabbed the pin and pulled the entire weight of the lathe into the air. The result is a twisted taper pin. So I'm probably going to have to call Clausing and hope I can order a replacement. If I use it in it's current state the alignment is sure to be off. 

The other problem was causing something I noticed when I had the lathe running. When the lead screw feed lever was in the upper detente, I noticed the lead screw was not moving, much like it was in neutral. I had to push the lever past the detente to get it to engage. I made a mental note and thought something may have to be adjusted to fix it. After an initial de-greasing of the headstock I noticed that the feed gear is worn all to hell, which I think is why the lever had to be pushed so far up so that the tumbler could engage the worn out gear. I've attached pictures of the issue. Compare them to the two headstock pictures below and you can see how buggered up mine is. Is this something I should try to replace? Will pushing the feed gear past the detente cause other problems? If I can even get a replacement, I'm sure it will be costly as well as then I will definitely have to take apart the headstock to replace it.





I'm a little discouraged at the moment. But then again I didn't pay much for this thing so I guess I got what I paid for.


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## Kennyd

Wow Kent, that is really ugly looking.  I wish I had some advice for you, but I think I would be discouraged at this point as well.


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## architard

Well after sleeping on a few of these things I did a bit of research this morning. I'm less discouraged. 

First thing I noticed when I tried to get a part number for the taper pin in the parts diagram is that it doesn't have one. I did not realize these are simple items to find. McMaster Carr has them in packages of 5 for less than $10. I'll see if I can find a place that sells them individually since I just need one.

Then I looked at the feed gear part number. I have an old Clausing parts price list from 2005. The feed gear is listed as only $15.84. Compared to some other parts I may need to replace, that's not too pricey. Hopefully the difference in 2005 to 2012 prices aren't too high. 

My cross slide nut is also toast. Much like the poorly repaired cross slide screw, someone jury rigged up another nut that allowed it to function. That part is listed as $47.48. 

I'm going to get a parts list together and email it off to Clausing to see what the damages will be. I'll price out everything I need and then figure out whats essential and what I can fix myself. 

The worst part is going to be having to take apart the entire spindle to replace the feed gear, which seems intense. I think I have a long slow slog to get this thing back up and running. But oh well I wanted a project didn't I? :nuts:

I did get the apron put all back together. I should have paid more attention when I took it apart, it took me several attempts but I finally got it figured out.


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## PurpLev

you DID want a project - never forget that (that usually helps soften any discouragements).

As for the feed gear - I've actually seen the same on 2 4900s and was able to reduce the selling price of my lathe based on that. when speaking with Clausing I believe that was an ~$80 part, but you can get a more precise number from clausing. the only thing about it is that you WILL have to take the headstock completely apart and have to remove the spindle in order to replace that gear. while I was happy not having to do that, I think that being forced to do that will be good long term as you'd have a better grasp of how it is put together. good luck with that, and please post the progress on this as I'm sure it can be helpful for others down the line.

As for the rest - it will all comes together. just don't rush it.

nice to see you are getting some progress done even if it doesn't feel like it.


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## architard

I'm already stumped on how to get the spindle out. I have everything on the outboard side of the spindle off to the point of the bearing take up nut. You are supposed to use a spanner wrench to adjust the bearing take up nut. I don't have one yet, so I used a 1/4" rod that fit into the hole. I was able to loosen it but towards the end of the threads it gets super tight again. I'm going to order a spanner wrench but I still don't want to force it. I can't see anything else that would cause the nut to not loosen. The threads don't even seem gunked up. I've been spraying everything in the headstock with PB blaster in anticipation of having to take the spindle out. 

After the take up nut is a dust cover. I assume this is just pressed in. Then a washer, then the first spindle bearing. Again I'm assuming these are pressed in? I don't have any means of pressing these out. Whats the best way to go about removing spindle bearings without a press? 

I'm headed into uncharted territory here and I have no idea what I'm doing. Any advice on where to look for information on any of this?


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## architard

Well I think my suspicions that I am only going to be able to afford to replace those MOST critical parts are true. I just got the quote from Clausing. Yikes! I think I'll pick up the feed gear, cross slide nut, and a few springs. I'm going to make due and or come up with fixes for the rest like I had already planned. 

I attached the quote so you can see the prices.


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## vt-biketim

architard said:


> Well I think my suspicions that I am only going to be able to afford to replace those MOST critical parts are true. I just got the quote from Clausing. Yikes! I think I'll pick up the feed gear, cross slide nut, and a few springs. I'm going to make due and or come up with fixes for the rest like I had already planned.
> 
> I attached the quote so you can see the prices.



I am following this thread with great interest as I just bought a 4902 that came out of a school in Bridgeport and I know I'll have to get into it in the coming months. Thanks to everyone who takes the time to document and post this info for tentative people like me!


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## Kennyd

vt-biketim said:


> I am following this thread with great interest as I just bought a 4902 that came out of a school in Bridgeport and I know I'll have to get into it in the coming months. Thanks to everyone who takes the time to document and post this info for tentative people like me!



Welcome to H-M


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## PurpLev

yeah, unfortunately these are the prices. I've actually made sure I calculated those numbers into the sale before hand when I got mine... not cheap at all. make do with what you can though based on what you plan to do with the lathe (work wise)

vt-biketim - did you get the lathe with the red tailstock?


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## boaterri

There is someone on Ebay that sells "rebuilt" cross lead screws and nuts. Look under "Clausing lathe", sort by price and look below $200. 
I could not tell where yours was broken but if the lathe had a taper attachment, it will have a "split" lead screw.

If you need a set of collets for the lathe (4C) I have an extra, not sure if it is a full set but it is close.

Good Luck,

Rick


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## Jerry

Hi all
I have a Clausing 4900 lathe as well. I really have enjoyed mine and use it a lot. I am presently making a back plate for it from cast plate. This thread is interesting to say the least. I hope you have as much enjoyment from yours as I have from mine. i have used it for years to repair machinery on the farm!
Jerry


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## vt-biketim

Hi everyone—

I,too, am now cleaning up a recently-acquired 4902 and need some advice. After seeing the photos of the nice cleanup jobs you've all done I was inspired to pop off the headstock for thorough cleaning. OK, so how are you supposed to deal with the taper pin? PurpLev says its supposed to be knocked out from below, but it seems to be in a blind hole. Architard - I can see exactly why you wanted to pull it off with a chain hoist! As I removed all the bolts and clamps and started carefully prying it up, the rounded pin head slid pretty easily halfway through the hole and then jammed. Now I find that it won't lift off and it won't go back down.

Suggestions?

Tim


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## PurpLev

vt-biketim said:


> Hi everyone—
> 
> I,too, am now cleaning up a recently-acquired 4902 and need some advice. After seeing the photos of the nice cleanup jobs you've all done I was inspired to pop off the headstock for thorough cleaning. OK, so how are you supposed to deal with the taper pin? PurpLev says its supposed to be knocked out from below, but it seems to be in a blind hole. Architard - I can see exactly why you wanted to pull it off with a chain hoist! As I removed all the bolts and clamps and started carefully prying it up, the rounded pin head slid pretty easily halfway through the hole and then jammed. Now I find that it won't lift off and it won't go back down.
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> Tim



I personally pried the entire headstock off of the bed, the pin once 'stuck' in the headstock eventually came off with it... may not be the best approach, but that's what I ended up doing and it came back in place fairly well. 

Sharon


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## AR1911

I have a parts washer built from a 55-gallon drum. It has a disc that losely fits the ID, supported by bolts through the side about 1/3 of the way down. There is a notch in that plate for a tube up from the immersible pump. The bottom third of the barrel is water, with kerosene, diesel, fuel or whatever is cheapest atop that.
 Works great, I use it nearly every time I'm at the shop.

As for tooling, I have had success in similar situation by buying a clapped out lathe of the same or similar model, robbing the tooling, and parting out the rest. I get my machine tooled for free, and make money besides. I have done this several times.    Find out what other lathes have the same chuck mount as yours.  
You do have to be patient.  Check CL daily.

Oh, and welcome to a fun hobby


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## architard

I basically did what Sharon did to remove the headstock. However, the taper pin is not quite in a blind hole. The hole comes through the bed way. The problem is I'm not sure you can get enough clearance under the pin to knock it out. I took a picture of the hole on my bed. It's masked off for painting and hanging in the ceiling of my shed. Look at my picture and you can see the indent in the masking tape where the top of the hole is. Since mines in pieces I'm not sure I can answer if you can actually get underneath the pin. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




If you destroy your pin the way I did, and need a replacement let me know. I just got my order delivered and I have like 5 of them and only need one. I'll send you one if you need it. 

Anyways, I'm making slow progress. I'm almost to the point now where all the grease and muck is gone. I've actually started shooting some paint on the larger pieces. Boy those crappy little husky detail spray guns sure waste a lot of paint. I might have to pick up another quart before I'm done. Very satisfying though to see nice glossy paint on the bigger pieces. I can't wait to start putting this thing back together. 

Don't ask me how, but I was finally able to remove the spindle. So I was able to remove the chewy feed gear. In the process I bent one of the large washers that go against the bearings. If I can't find a washer with the same specs I might have to pick one up when I place my Clausing order. I think I had made a mistake when I read the quote and I got the thread dial gear mixed up with the feed gear. So in my head I was thinking it wasn't going to be too costly. Then I realized the feed gear is $190! I'm also realizing to put the headstock back together without messing things up I should really do it with a press. So as typical fashion for a tool junky like me I think I'm going to buy a HF 20 ton press this weekend. I think this will be a good investment because I can't tell you how many times a press would have gotten me out of a bind. So yeah, this hobby gets expensive fast. 

The one thing I haven't figured out yet though is how to get the front bearing out. The front bearing cover is pressed in, and there doesn't seem to be any way to get it out. So the bearing and washer are still in the headstock. Anyone have any ideas?


Oh and I was all worried that if I damaged the bearings they would be ridiculously expensive to replace (I did NOT damage them btw). They are Timken 344 tapered bearings. You can pick them up for about $35 a piece.

Anyway, I'll have to update my blog with a bunch more stuff, but I figured I'd give you guys a quick update for now.


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## Kennyd

Thanks for the update Kent, glad to hear your still going at it!


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## PurpLev

good progress. the lessons you are gaining are priceless and cannot be found anywhere else. looking forward to seeing the painted parts already!


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## architard

Good god I should have bought a shop press ages ago. Hours of frustration melt away with the simple satisfaction of being able to press things out in a matter of minutes. 

I treated myself to a shopping day at Harbor Freight. I read a bunch of reviews on the 12 ton and 20 ton shop press. I had decided to get the bigger one since everyone seems to agree the 12 ton shimmies all over the place when you are using it. Since they had them set up at the store I was also able to compare the two next to each other. The 20 ton is much more substantial and definitely worth the extra cash. Oh, and they accept the 20% coupon on it as well! 

I'll post some pics on my blog later, but man, I could fabricate this thing better with my eyes closed. The welds are absolutely horrible. The top two rails were completely misaligned and I was almost not able to get the spring retaining bolt to go through due to it. 

But in the end it works. I have some ideas for upgrades but you can't beat it for $160. 

Anyway I was able to press out the remaining pieces of the back gear shaft. I still need to figure out how to press out the front bearing retainer. I have some ideas I got floating around in my head. 

I also picked up an HVLP spray gun at HF. Again, read some reviews, and added a few O-rings so it didn't leak. For $35 dollars this thing is totally worth it. I honestly think that some of HF manufacturing must be getting better because the gun I bought didn't seem to have nearly the problems that others that had reviewed it on YouTube had. 

I was able to shoot some more paint today and I didn't use nearly as much paint as my detail spray gun. 

Next up is going to be purchasing the replacement feed gear and cross slide nut. I think I might have to wait till my next paycheck on that one. :lmao:

My blog posting is a bit behind my forum updates but I have a few posts that will be ready to go soon.


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## PurpLev

nice!

still curious how you got that spindle out. must be a secret handshake thing :thinking:


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## architard

I didn't say because I figured I'd be admonished for the heavy handed technique. It involved a hammer. :nono: I know, I know I shouldn't have done it that way, but I was very careful. I did not hammer directly on any piece of the headstock, I always had wood blocking between the hammer and the parts. In the end everything came apart without any damage. I'm sure someone may tell me that despite any visible damage being done I may have done some damage that isn't evident yet. 

I thought woodworking needed patience. I think I need to work on that a bit. If I would have just waited a few days I'd have had my shop press.

Ok, I DID bend one of the washers, but I have already straightened it out with the help of the new press. I love this thing.


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## PurpLev

architard said:


> I didn't say because I figured I'd be admonished for the heavy handed technique. It involved a hammer. :nono: I know, I know I shouldn't have done it that way, but I was very careful. I did not hammer directly on any piece of the headstock, I always had wood blocking between the hammer and the parts. In the end everything came apart without any damage. I'm sure someone may tell me that despite any visible damage being done I may have done some damage that isn't evident yet.
> 
> I thought woodworking needed patience. I think I need to work on that a bit. If I would have just waited a few days I'd have had my shop press.
> 
> Ok, I DID bend one of the washers, but I have already straightened it out with the help of the new press. I love this thing.



ha... that's ok, I was using similar techniques are some points whistle: ). sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do - especially if you understand the consequences and can take responsibility for the outcomes. as for patience - woodworking nowadays feels like childs play :rofl:. that's one of the things I like about machining - it's taking the practice of woodworking to a whole new level, making woodworking more feasible and simpler in many ways.


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## architard

Well I'm stuck again. I can't figure out how to press out the front bearing cover so I can remove the front headstock bearing. I've attached  markup of the headstock schematic to explain the problem. The diameter (A) of the headstock through hole and the inside diameter of the bearing, washer and cover are all the same. So I simply don't have anything to press out against. 

I had cut a small piece of steel flat bar that I could just barely get under the washer so that it spanned across the hole and pushed out against the washer. I then inserted a socket that was almost the same diameter A so that I was bearing as close to the edge of the washer as possible. However the cover is so tight that it just bent the flat bar right out of the hole. If the bar was any larger to resist bending I wouldn't be able to slide it between the washer and the bearing. I even tried another bar that pressed directly against the bearing cover but because there was less clearance to get it in place, it bent out of the whole even faster. 

I'm stuck. :think1:




Aside from that I have a few more questions. What is the taper of the headstock spindle? I know there is supposed to be this reducer sleeve to take it down to a #2 MT but the manual doesn't say what the outside taper is. Is it a #3 or a #4 MT? I'd imagine since I'm missing that I could just get a dead center that goes right into the taper and not bother with the reducer. 

Also, there is a "pan moulding" between the head pedestal foot and the chip pan. It's just a rubber gasket. Mine is shot to hell. Did either of you guys have to replace this? I found some adhesive backed 2" wide rubber strips in various thicknesses from Mcmaster Carr that I think I can fold in half over the chip pan edge to emulate that gasket. Do you think that would work?


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## AR1911

I don't get it. Why can't you just push out the bearing, washer and cover all at the same time?


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## PurpLev

hmm... I wonder how such a part can be pulled out indeed. I have no experience with this sort of thing :thinking:

As for the internal spindle taper - it's a MT4. so if you can get a MT4 center you can forgo the adapter. although long term the adapter will make it easier to use more common tooling (not that I've ever needed anything other than a deadcenter myself as of yet as long as you have a collet chuck which covers everything else mostly)

the rubber is just to prevent oil/coolant from going in between and into the cabinet/floor. you could use any rubber gasket as long as it seals the area. if you don't use coolant you have even less to worry about in terms of catastrophy happening


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## architard

AR1911 said:


> I don't get it. Why can't you just push out the bearing, washer and cover all at the same time?



Because there is nothing to push against. The bearing washer and cover reside in a cup shaped recess in the front of the headstock casting. I have to press from the rear of the headstock through the rear bearing hole to push out. However the inside diameter of the hole through that cup shaped recess (A in my diagram) is the same diameter of the things I'm trying to push out. So there is no way I can insert something that will bear against the bearing, washer or cover in the direction I need to press. 

I think Sharon has hinted at what might need to be done when he said "pulled out". It will probably have to be pulled out instead of pushed. I was trying to figure out how to rig one of my 3 jaw gear pullers to pull it out. However the space behind the bearing cover is not big enough to accept the jaw. I might have to fabricate some new jaws that can get in there and then rig the puller to press against the headstock casting instead of where it would usually try to press against a shaft in the center.


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## AR1911

I guess I'm a bit slow.
Looks to me like you could put a thick washer inside the headstock against the bearing. It might bear only against the inner race, but that may be good enough.
Then a big socket or short length of pipe outside the headstock, bigger than the OD of the parts coming out.
All-thread or bolt through a thick washer on the front of the headstock, through the whole works, nut inside the headstock.
Tighten to pull the bearing, internal washer, and cover out all at the same time.

I doubt this is a very tight press fit. I'd bet it's more like a "tap in" fit.
What am I missing?


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## architard

Success! 

I went back to my first idea of using a small piece of flat bar to press against. Only this time I used another small piece perpendicular to the first piece and just wedged it in there. On my first attempt... no go. They both bent out again. So I flattened them out, again. The last time though I put a bit of heat on the casting around the bearing cover with a propane torch. Then I set it up in the press. I also pumped the jack extremely fast hoping that the shock of doing it so quickly would give it a bit of extra oomph. I can't tell you if it was the heat or the speed at which I pumped but it finally broke free and came out. 

Again the washer on this side got mangled as well but I was able to press it flat again. 

Now everything I need to disassemble is done. The chip pan is the only thing that I need to strip and clean up. I'll have to order the replacement feed gear from Clausing soon and I'll finally be able to start putting everything back together again.


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## PurpLev

that is awesome! glad you got it out. should all be downhill from here on. congrats!hew:


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## architard

Just a quick update. I've ordered the new feed gear and cross slide screw from Clausing. Should be here next week. When I get back from the beach this weekend I shouldn't have any major obstacles anymore to go full bore on the painting and re-assembly. 

Then it's just a matter of tooling up. Even more reasons for my wallet to give me dirty looks. :lmao:


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## Kennyd

If/when I need new bearing I am hiring you!  Nice job and thanks for the pics!


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## architard

So a thought just popped into my head. I still have the spindle out and need to get another coat of paint on the headstock casting before I start re-assembling everything. Does it make sense to pick up some new headstock bearings and replace them while I have this thing apart? They really aren't that expensive and I don't plan on ever having to take this headstock apart again. I don't think the original bearings had any issues with them, but if I can replace them with brand new ones, why not?

What do you think?


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## AR1911

Are you sure they are cheap?  They may have common numbers on them, but they may be high-precision bearings (class 3?) and cost several hundred dollars.
If they are indeed common automotive-grade bearings, then I'd change them.
I'll also concede that current std-quality Timken bearings may well be near equal to the class 3 bearings of 50 years ago.


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## architard

A couple updates. 

Yeah I'm sure the bearings are pretty cheap comparatively. They came in around $30 a piece. However, they seem to be in good shape and some other things have come up cost wise so I think I'll just reuse the old bearings. 

So the other day I was about to shoot another coat of paint on some parts. Started up my air compressor and was greeted by a motor sound that got continuously lower in pitch until it started smoking... I'm pretty sure my compressor was recalled for exactly this problem. It was a Craftsman 15 gallon 1.5 HP oiless POS. So the weather is getting colder and now I can't paint. Ugh

I have a much better older Craftsman at my mom's house (3 hours away) that used to be my grandfathers. It's has a slightly bigger tank and it's two stage, but I'm not sure I can rewire from 220-110. But it's 3 hours away! Long story short, I went out and bought a new compressor at Harbor Freight. I was going to pick up yet another oiless POS for $160 but it got really bad reviews, in some cases people saying it only lasted a few hours. They had a better 29 gallon, 2 HP two stage compressor for $350. Surprisingly that one gets great reviews. So I bought it, and I have to say it has the nicest fit and finish of anything I've ever bought from HF. 

Thanks to a timely bonus check I also picked up some tooling from Shars. I got a 6" 4 jaw chuck, a wedge type QCTP, dead and live centers and some brazed carbide boring bars. So nothing is holding me back now from wrapping up the paint and getting this thing up and running. 

As a tool junky I saw this lathe project as an opportunity to have an excuse to buy more tools. I had no idea it would snowball into what is has. I think I may have a problem. Is there a tool addicts anonymous out there? :lmao:


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## oilslick

Thank you Kent for your posts and ongoing adventures with the 4914 Clausing lathe, you are an inspiration to all that have followed this thread. I, myself, have decided to give it a go at acquiring a good lathe, and have a Clausing 4914 on the way that I just purchaced. I have not run a lathe since highschool shop and after high school at some odd jobs in small machine shops. This has been a good learning thread about some adventure and some misadventures you have experienced, keep up the good work, and get that 4914 running smooth, Thanks


oilslick


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## architard

Thanks for the kind words Oilslick. I am glad that some may find helpful information in this re-hab. I know I greatly appreciate all the info that Sharon and Ken have posted on these machines.

I really need to get my blog updated as it is way behind the actual restoration. I'll try to post some new pics here tonight. 

A few more updates, and a few more setbacks. I finally got the bed and chip pan painted up, which meant I could finally start re-assembly. I'm not sure if you guys had help when you put yours together but I sure did a number on my brand new paint job while I was trying to line up all these heavy pieces with each other. After I got the bed, pedestals, chip pan, and base cabinets together I had to squirt a touch up coat on a few heavy scratches. I don't imagine this pristine paint lasting very long at all. 

The slab in my shed is not very level or flat so I ended up having to put a piece of plywood under the headstock cabinet to get enough height to get it somewhat level. I will wait till I have all the components back together before final leveling. 

I was able to get the motor mounted and wired up. The wiring is still somewhat temporary till I figure out where I want to mount everything. The motor runs extremely smoothly on its own. So I hooked up the motor to the counter shaft. The original ball bearings for the counter shaft were shot so I had installed new ones. I finally started the motor but I was very disappointed when I heard significant vibration in one of the bearings. Upon closer inspection it is now evident that the counter shaft spindle has significant wear and galling at the location of the rear ball bearing, between the two retainer rings. The ball bearing has to be pressed over the end of the shaft but once it reaches it's intended location, its very loose. I think there is enough side to side bearing on the bearing retainers so that I can push the ball bearing out towards the end of the shaft that it has a tight fit on. I see this as a temporary solution so that I can get the lathe running without vibration. Eventually I can make a new counter shaft spindle on the lathe. 

So all throughout the re-hab I've had this one special sandwich bag full of the tiniest of parts. Set screws, a few springs, balls, those tiny brass plugs, and of course woodruff keys. I had kept it on my workbench in the same location for months, knowing that these parts would be oh so easy to lose. I even remember having it my hand yesterday morning. But later in the day when I went to start to re-assemble the headstock and needed that big #9 woodruff key for the spindle gear, it vanished. My shop was a mess so I thought it's gotta be here somewhere. I cleaned up the shop. I even dumped the garbage out and sorted through all of it. I searched my apartment top to bottom, the shed, backyard, you get the idea. The bag is gone, nowhere to be found, putting a halt to any reassembly. 

Argh! 

The worst part is I'm not exactly sure of every part I had in there. When I'd come to needing a set screw or a key, I'd just find the matching one in that bag. I'm pretty sure I can get replacements for everything but it's just a pain in the butt. I'll probably head up to HF and pick up their assorted woodruff key and set screw box sets and hope everything I need can be found within them.

Just another bump in the road on this never ending lathe re-hab.


----------



## AR1911

Happens to me all the time. Find something else to do. 
It will turn up.


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## PurpLev

architard said:


> So all throughout the re-hab I've had this one special sandwich bag full of the tiniest of parts. Set screws, a few springs, balls, those tiny brass plugs, and of course woodruff keys. I had kept it on my workbench in the same location for months, knowing that these parts would be oh so easy to lose. I even remember having it my hand yesterday morning. But later in the day when I went to start to re-assemble the headstock and needed that big #9 woodruff key for the spindle gear, it vanished. My shop was a mess so I thought it's gotta be here somewhere. I cleaned up the shop. I even dumped the garbage out and sorted through all of it. I searched my apartment top to bottom, the shed, backyard, you get the idea. The bag is gone, nowhere to be found, putting a halt to any reassembly.
> 
> Argh!
> 
> The worst part is I'm not exactly sure of every part I had in there. When I'd come to needing a set screw or a key, I'd just find the matching one in that bag. I'm pretty sure I can get replacements for everything but it's just a pain in the butt. I'll probably head up to HF and pick up their assorted woodruff key and set screw box sets and hope everything I need can be found within them.
> 
> Just another bump in the road on this never ending lathe re-hab.



hate when tht happens. usually if you'll try to find something ELSE, this bag will just show up on it's own. 

for future use - I use 2 techniques for these cases depending on which one is more suitable:
1. during disassembly - place each set screw/key/plug in it's threaded hole as a place holder - this way each set of screw/bolt/nut/hole are always matched and in-situ, and during re-assembly you simply take them out , clean, and place them back in their same place.

2. make a printout of the layout of screws, and using masking tape, stick each bolt/screw/nut/part in it's place on the printout, store in closet, and take out during reassembly 

hope you find the parts, or replacements.
cheers


----------



## architard

I came home from work today and went through my now clean shop, shed, backyard, etc and still couldn't find the blasted bag of parts. So I went to HF and picked up some woodruff keys and set screws. Of course the HF woodruff keys are metric, so it took some light grinding to get them to fit snugly. 

So I started pressing the headstock spindle together and was not happy at these sounds coming from the bearing. I couldn't figure out how to embed the video in this post so here is a Link

Does that sound like a bad bearing? I'm not sure if I should be worried about that noise or not. I think I probably should replace the bearings. Argh. :whiteflag: I may have to take a break from this project for a few days before I pull all my hair out.


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## PurpLev

definitely does not sound right. unless the feed gears are engaged the spindle should be almost completely silent when turned. 

sounds like something is misaligned and is hitting an adjacent surface every time it makes a turn. can you locate what is causing that sound? a specific bearing? a specific cylinder?


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## Dranreb

Have you oiled the bearing? It's not clear from the video, but the bearing will sound like that without lube and without both ends supported in line, try lubing both bearings, reinstall them and gently take up any slack then gradually adjust the pre-load, tapping each end of the shaft with a soft hammer to settle things, check for noise all the way by turning the shaft.  

It often helps to over tighten a bit then back off, hope this all makes sense to you.

Bernard


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## architard

Bernard,
I had not oiled it yet. I was thinking along the lines of what you are saying, in that since the bearing wasn't oiled and the opposing bearing hadn't been installed and there was no pre-load I might be getting concerned over nothing. I've kind of resigned myself to the fact that anytime I put an assembly together on this thing I have to put it together, realize something is wrong, take it apart, put it back together, ad nauseum. So I can already foresee myself pressing the headstock together a few more times until everything is right.

Sharon,
As far as I can tell when the bearing is out of the cup, nothing seems wrong with it.  All of the individual rollers seem to move properly. There is no noticeable wear or galling on the bearing or its cup. 

I went back and found a video I made of the machine running before I tore it apart. I'm not sure I can hear anything that would cause alarm. As far as I remember when I spun the spindle by hand before the tear down everything felt silky smooth. 

I'll go ahead and get everything back together with the other bearing, and the bearing take up nut, adjust the pre-load and oil the bearings and see if I still have that vibration. I just didn't  want to get to far into the headstock re-assembly if the bearing was no good.


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## PurpLev

I'll second Bernard... my response was due to the fact that I was under the assumption that both bearings were lubed, installed and pre-loaded when you heard the noise...


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## Dranreb

architard said:


> I'll go ahead and get everything back together with the other bearing, and the bearing take up nut, *adjust the pre-load and oil the bearings *
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if that was a typo, if it was please ingore the following.
> 
> You should lube *before* pre-loading, it's not good practice to assemble dry, you may not get good results as parts can jam together and even wear as they are pressed together, and might give a false impression of being correctly adjusted, then loosen up when it all gets lubed.
> 
> Bernard
Click to expand...


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## Kennyd

I agree, it may sound like that since it's dry.  It would be pretty hard to wreck those spindle bearings I think unless they where ran dry...but you would have seen that damage easily.


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## architard

Thanks everyone, this is why I asked. And thank you Bernard, I had no idea that you should lubricate before pre-load. 

Yes I had not finished installing everything. There was no pre-load and no lube in there when I heard the sound. I went ahead and actually pressed everything together, lubing up the bearings with the proper oil and then setting some pre-load with the bearing take up nut. Everything is much much quieter, however I CAN still hear the a sound with the same characteristics as before, only much quieter. I went back to the video I had and if I listen very carefully it sounds like I can hear it too. At this point I'm not that worried about it, the spindle feels smooth. Once everything is buttoned back up I'll be able to make a judgement if I need to replace the bearing. Yeah it will be a PITA to take the headstock apart again, but guess what, I've got a lot of experience in that! :lmao:

As long and arduous as this re-hab has been I have to say I have no fear anymore of tearing a complex assembly apart to fix the darned thing. Not to mention I have an intimate knowledge of every last set screw, spring and woodruff key in this lathe. 

In the long list of issues this lathe has lets add another one. At some point the woodruff key that was holding the backgear on the shaft had been sheared off and the shaft got super chewy and galled. I had a hard time even figuring out where the original key way was. Since the shaft was shot in that location I didn't feel bad attempting to re-make the keyway with a Dremel grinding wheel. I think it will work as a temporary fix, but I'd eventually like to remake that shaft as well as the countershaft spindle.

Which leads me to another question. What kind of material should I use for these shafts? I was thinking 1045 Cold Drawn TGP Precision Shafting would be the right thing for this application. 

Anyway, the re-hab continues... 

Oh, on a side note, don't bother painting your headstock until after you pressed everything back together, I'm going to have to touch up quite a few scratches!


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## Dranreb

If everything is as it should be, the only possible source of noise in a shaft slowly turning in a solid housing is the bearing cage, this has to have some slack to work (it may be slightly worn too) and will rattle a little with only a smear of oil in the bearing, whilst spinning the shaft try giving the bearing a good squirt of oil, it should go quiet.

When the headstock is fully assembled and running with plenty of oil sloshing about it should be just fine.

Bernard


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## architard

First a bone to pick... why do we need to separate the Clausing-Colchester from the Atlas Clausing lathes? And why is this thread in here when my 4914 clearly says on the nameplate, a division of Atlas Press Company. Ok, rant over.

More updates!

I could very well imagine that the noise I'm hearing is a vibration of the bearing cage. I got the headstock mounted on the lathe and got all the belts hooked up and the motor wired to the VFD and finally turned it on! The noise is completely tolerable if not barely noticeable over the quiet hum of the motor. 

There is however some more issues that cropped up. This is a bit hard to explain if you are not familiar with these head stocks so bear with me. When I have the motor out of back gear, the back gear shaft floats towards the engaged position and the edge of the small back gear rubs against the spindle gear which starts the back gear shaft spinning and making a heck of a racket. At first I thought it was the back gear selector handle not holding the shaft tight enough in the dis-engaged position. But then I noticed on the outboard end that the large back gear is being pushed in by the gear hub assembly. The gear hub assembly floats on the spindle and when the motor is turning it tends to float towards the headstock pushing against the back gear which is causing the problem. There is a thrust washer that is located between the gear hub assembly and the bearing take up nut, which was quite worn. I'm thinking I need to replace this thrust washer so that the proper spacing is achieved. What was left of my thrust washer was a 1-1/2" ID and 1-5/8" OD and it was extremely thin. I have a piece of brass plate which I think is just the right thickness to keep everything in line, if I could just figure out how to make a washer out of it. I figured I can roughly cut it into a disc shape, drill a hole through the center to mount it on a bolt which I can put in the lathe to turn the OD then mount it in the chuck to finish up the ID. 

For now I've attached a bungee cord to the back gear handle that keeps enough tension so that the gear stays quiet. 

During the two days I had off from work due to hurricane Sandy I was in the shed doing some machining. :nuts: I had temporarily mounted my tool post using a carriage bolt and washer. And of course like the nutjob I am, I decided my first ever machining would be to accurately machine the blank back plate for my 4 jaw chuck. I had read a lot on this and I was able to sneak up to a very gentle push fit of the snout into the back of the chuck. Once I had my 4 jaw mounted up, I was able to machine the t-nut for the tool post. I figured out how to indicate it, do some facing and turning, etc. It fits into my compound T slot quite nicely. So now I have my 4 jaw chuck and my toolpost mounted!

One thing I learned while making these is that the PO's sloppy fix on the cross slide screw was indeed quite sloppy. I have a major amount of backlash in the cross slide. I can grab the tool post and physically slide the compound a good half inch. So high on the list of things to machine will be a new cross slide screw assembly. This will entail learning to turn acme threads. I had not noticed if the gear on this assembly is pressed on the screw or if it was integrally machined on. I'm hoping I can press it off to put on the replacement screw, or else I'll have to somehow join a new set of acme threads to the existing assembly, much like the current "fix" only less sloppily. I also have to figure out what size acme threads are in the cross slide nut. Is it possible one of you guys with these lathes could measure the diameter of your cross slide screw? 

I still don't have the quick change gear box fixed so I don't have power feeds or threading capabilities yet. That's the next project...

I really have to get you guys some pictures, I know how much everyone loves pictures, myself included!


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## Old Iron

My LaBlond Regal has gits oiled on the spindle bearings you have to put a few drops in before you start it up.

That way it doesn't start with dry bearings it is a interesting concept.

Paul


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## architard

My trials and tribulations must be getting boring. Not too many responses to my last post. It must be the lack of pictures! 

Sadly due to the nature of things broken on this machine it's impossible to get the pristine, completely assembled beauty shots of this machine. So here I present to you what she looks like today. She's missing a few things, badges, leadscrew, QCGB, etc. but shes working. You can also see the grime that has already gotten on her just from assembly and from the first projects. Ken, I don't know how you were able to keep your's looking so pretty with this color! I still like it though. You might not be able to tell but I also can't get the entire thing in the picture since my shed is so small. I literally have about 2 feet in front before my wood rack begins.






Still a lot of work to be done. I was successful in my attempts to make a new thrust washer from some brass plate to replace the worn one. Once I got everything on the headstock back together with this new washer in place, I have no more issues with the back gear rubbing against the spindle gear when the back gear is disengaged. 




The next issue I have is the tumbler gears. When I engage them they make an awful racket. It's much worse, almost unbearable, when it's engaged to feed towards the headstock, its better when feeding in the other direction. It's not an issue with gears grinding, it sounds more like either the tumbler shaft is vibrating or gears are loose while they rotate. Everything is tight though so I don't know where to begin. I might try to get some video so others may hear the noise and help me troubleshoot. 

I'm starting to make a few other replacement parts. I'm already having a blast making these parts and I haven't even gotten the lathe fully functional!


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## Kennyd

That looks fantastic Kent, thanks for the updated pictures!


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## oilslick

Hi Kent,
This thread is far from being boring, I've followed this for a couple of months. Your tips for moving the lathe helped me because I picked my 4914 up at a freight depot 120 miles round trip by myself with a borrowed motorcycle trailer. I was sweating bullets on every exit on the turnpike because of the banking of the curves, never noticed it before, but with an expensive lathe leaning, it gets your attention. At least the seller crated and boxed it up nice where I could strap it down to the trailer. You have done well with your project, keep up the good work, nice pictures too! 

Randy


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## Kennyd

oilslick said:


> Hi Kent,
> This thread is far from being boring, I've followed this for a couple of months. Your tips for moving the lathe helped me because I picked my 4914 up at a freight depot 120 miles round trip by myself with a borrowed motorcycle trailer. I was sweating bullets on every exit on the turnpike because of the banking of the curves, never noticed it before, but with an expensive lathe leaning, it gets your attention. At least the seller crated and boxed it up nice where I could strap it down to the trailer. You have done well with your project, keep up the good work, nice pictures too!
> 
> Randy



Have we missed your thread and pictures Randy?:lmao:

Welcome to H-M


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## architard

I would have thought any tips I had on moving a lathe would have been filed under "What not to do". 

I'm dreading the day when I eventually move out of my apartment. It will probably take two trucks, one for the home stuff, which you can bet I'll just pay a moving company to do, and another truck just for all my tools and equipment I've somehow managed to shoehorn into this place.


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## oilslick

Kennyd said:


> Have we missed your thread and pictures Randy?:lmao:
> 
> Welcome to H-M



Nope! KennyD, I just kind of hijacked this thread, I must take some pictures of my 4914 and post my own thread. Thanks for the welcome, kinda new at this.)


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## architard

Well progress has slowed on the lathe. It's cold out in the shed!

I finally got my order of metal in so I could fix the tumbler bracket handle. So I was able to use the tumbler knob assembly as a model for the QCGB knob. Three little parts and cutting my first taper. I wasn't able to get the knob to look exactly the same as the the tumbler knob but it works.

So then I went through a lengthy process of laying out and fabricating a fix for the top of the bracket handle. I got it all jigged up and then brazed it together. It looked great! Once I got paint on it, you couldn't even tell it was ever broken. I'll have to get some pics up soon. 

I got it all assembled on the QCGB and that's when more problems surfaced! Much like the headstock I had not wanted to disassemble the QCGB due to its complexity. It felt to me like the gears were extremely tight. I figured once I got everything hooked up it would be fine. WRONG! Well I put everything together and when I tried engaging the gearbox, the v belts slipped. It was obviously having a hell of a time driving the gear box. So I put it in back gear and put it on the lowest feed rate. It strained but I could see the output shaft on the gear box turning. Well it was straining a lot more than I had thought and before long I hear a loud POP! I looked down and the nice repair I had done on the tumbler bracket broke right at the brazing line. Ugh! This lathe is killing me. 

So now I have to re-braze that all back together and repaint it. Now I also have to pop off the QCGB and disassemble the whole thing to figure out what in the world is causing these gears to be so troublesome. 

I don't know when I'm going to get to that. It's cold out and the holidays are upon us. :angry:


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## PurpLev

architard said:


> It looked great! Once I got paint on it, you couldn't even tell it was ever broken. I'll have to get some pics up soon.


yes you'll have to!



architard said:


> So now I have to re-braze that all back together and repaint it. Now I also have to pop off the QCGB and disassemble the whole thing to figure out what in the world is causing these gears to be so troublesome.
> 
> I don't know when I'm going to get to that. It's cold out and the holidays are upon us. :angry:



UGH.... that sucks. have you lubricated the gearbox/shafts/bearings? 
I'm curious what part got broken when under power-feed, there's got to be some high tension going on there to have caused it in the first place (and second place in your case).


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## architard

Well I wasn't able to work on the lathe for a little while but I got back to it. During the hiatus I found a cross slide screw assembly on ebay for very little in comparison to what it would cost from Clausing so I jumped on it. It wasn't exactly cheap but I'm glad I have it. It was the full assembly including the micrometer dial, handwheel and even a old cross slide nut. I had already bought a replacement for the cross slide nut from Clausing. 

That was an easy swap, and I have to say solved pretty much all my cross slide slop issues. It now has less than .003 of runout. I think my saddle may be loose though. If I pull up on it, I can feel it lift off the ways. I'd imagine in a heavy cut it might be possible for the saddle to get pulled up and cause all sorts of issues. I don't recall taking records of the location of the shims. Does anyone know of any resources out there for instructions on how to set up the saddle? 

Anyway, I thought the headstock was a big issue? This QCGB is a big headache. So after it broke off my newly fixed tumbler bracket, I popped it off the lathe and started pressing out shafts. It turns out that the  bearings for the dog clutch shaft were frozen. I pressed them out and soaked them in mineral spirits and some spirited rotating got them into working condition again. I'd like to eventually replace them but for now I got them moving. I re-brazed my bracket back together, this time dispensing with the paint job till I make sure it doesn't break again. 

I got everything buttoned back up and tried out the power feeds. It worked! I was so happy to finally have a full functioning lathe. After manually turning the dials having the power feeds was simply amazing. So my first task now was to make a spindle nose gauge. I have to bore and re-thread the backing plate for my 3 jaw so I wanted to make a gauge for testing the threading job without having to take the work off the spindle. I practiced a few thread cutting jobs on some misc scrap and was confident I knew what I was doing. 

However I was still having some issues keeping the QCGB in gear. I've since ruined 3-4 attempts at making a spindle nose copy. It turns out that the 1st cone gear in the lathe is too worn. It simply pops out of gear or even skips gear teeth sometimes so even when I had my threading procedure correct, the thread would jump and get cross threaded etc. I was so frustrated! 

So now I'm hunting ebay for gears, or an entire QCGB. I'm going to get a quote from Clausing on that particular cone gear and probably the 20t gear on the tumbler bracket as that seems worn as well. I'm sure it will be a couple hundred dollars so I'm hoping the ebay option might be cheaper. We shall see..

So that's my update for now. I have it all back together because any of the other gears seem to work fine. But of course the thread pitch on the spindle nose is on the bad gear! If anyone has a spare 18t cone gear for a 4900 or 5900 let me know. 

I've done a few quick updates on my blog so check it out. Hope to get a few more, particularly the fixing of the tumbler bracket.


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## PurpLev

sounds like you're tackling it and progressing along even if slowly.

the good news is that you'll be a clausing expect once this is all done.


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## architard

ARGH!!!!!!!

I'm at my wits end with this thing. I am utterly dejected right now. 

So like I had mentioned in my last post I came to the conclusion that the first cone gear and the 20T gear on the tumbler bracket were worn enough that they were the culprits to my slipping gears when I was threading. 

After I couldn't find anything on ebay for a few weeks I gave in and dropped $110 on new gears from Clausing. They came in today, I got so excited that I was finally going to get this thing fixed completely when I got home tonight. I tore the gear box off and got into it. When it came time to take out the cone gear shaft I had to consult the exploded diagram to figure out which way I should press it out. That's when I spotted it...

The 16T gear that is, as far as I can tell, machined onto the cone gear shaft itself. THAT is the gear that is stripped enough to cause problems, NOT the first 18T cone gear as I had thought it was and recently purchased for $65! :banghead:

I may have to walk away from this thing for a few weeks. I am so freakin ******. 

So I look at my old out of date (2005) price list and the shaft? Oh yeah that's going to be at least another $130. I'll email clausing tomorrow to find out how much it really is, that is if they even stock it anymore. :whiteflag:

Back to ebay I suppose to see if I can get lucky...


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## Kennyd

Sorry Kent...I have no good advice for you.


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## AR1911

Return the gears to Clausing and buy what you need.
Or, buy a 16T gear, machine off the old one and press the new one on.


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## architard

I probably won't return the gear, I'll just keep it as a spare. The one it is meant to replace isn't totally worn, but it's not in great shape either. I still need the other one I bought as that one is trashed. 

I found a mostly complete gear box that I'm waiting to hear back from the seller if I can just buy what I need off of him.

I also got a quote on that shaft from Clausing... $120. 

Lets see, I bought the lathe for $600 and now I have over $350 in parts into it. Whats another $120! Ugh. 

Would it be that easy to find a suitable replacement for that gear and do as AR1911 suggested? What kind of criteria and measurements would I need to find a replacement? I don't know much about gear geometry yet. I guess I better start reading.


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## PurpLev

that's always a tough pickle to be in. the good news is that you got the lathe for dirt cheap knowing you'd probably have extra expenses to get it all up in order so you are still ahead in the game.

like so many things in this industry and woodworking, there is always more than one way to skin a cat (not that we would ever do something like that of course...) AR suggestion is definitely a good alternative. 

I would also look at other suppliers of gears that might be cheaper than going Clausing (original) if you need more than a one-off. there are companies like Boston Gears (spelling?) that can do custom and/or prefab gears for you. it may not always be high quality like some others, but the prices are usually lower. maybe someone on the forum knows more places that can do that and/or makes gears themselves? worth a post on the forums


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## AR1911

Gears are pretty well defined and standardized. 
Go to the Martin Gear or Boston Gear websites. they have a tutorial to help you identify your gear.
Find one that matches the tooth count and pitch etc. 
Figure on using another lathe to turn the teeth off the bad gear, leaving a hub.
Bore that new gear to a press fit, or fit a key.  Or press, loctite and dowel it.


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## architard

Well I must be a glutton for punishment. I said I might have to step away for a while but I can't pull myself away. 

So I started looking down the path AR1911 mentioned. Thanks btw, I've found exactly what I needed on Boston Gears website. If you ever need to learn about gears, they have a lot of PDF's in their literature section that offer clear concise explanations of gear specifications. 

From what I've read I'm assuming the gears have a 14.5 degree pressure angle since they seem to be the most common. If anyone actually knows let me know, as figuring that out based on an existing gear seems kind of beyond me.

All I need then is the number of teeth (16) and the outside diameter (which I'll measure when I get home) and I can figure out my diametral pitch. I'm guessing the gear is steel since it's integral to the shaft. I doubt its cast iron. I'll be able to tell when I machine the old one off. With all that info I should be able to order a new gear. Taking a few guesstimates to the actual gear I need to order it will be in the $20 range. This could save me $100!

The only other problem I have is attaching it to the shaft. I've tried machining a press fit before and I'm not that good yet. I am thinking a set screw will not be sturdy enough in this case. Would a simple cross drilling of the gear and shaft for a roll pin work? 

Also to note, I don't really need another lathe to machine the gear off, since my lathe works, it just doesn't have any power feeds without the gear box. 

In the meantime I have been successful in making a new tumbler knob (the same assembly that's on the reverse gears and the quick change tumbler bracket) as well as a new cam shaft handle that locks the tail stock down. I haven't gotten a handle for the latter yet, I was going to make one out of metal but realized that in an unheated shop plastic handles do have their place.


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## architard

Again, I wonder if anyone is still following this thread. It must be the longest in history...

So I figured out the gear I needed. Once I learned the formula's everything made sense. Essentially the gear on that shaft has a diametrical pitch of 16 (as I think all the gearbox gears do) and it's pitch circle is 1" hence 16 teeth. I ordered one from Mcmaster Carr for like $24. The bore was too small and the gear was to wide and it had a hub on it as well. So I faced one side, then bored it too .625" for an perfect fit on the shaft. I did this because I didn't want to press fit it over the threads on the end of the shaft, which would have likely damaged the threads. Then I machined off the old gear, but instead of machining it down to .625" I left it proud about 1.5 thou. So I could slip the gear over the threads but then press fit it onto the original gear location. Then I turned down the hub and faced the gear to match the original width. 

I put the gearbox all back together and hooked it up. It worked! I saved myself a $100! Thanks AR1911 for that suggestion! If you notice the posting time you can tell I spend all night after work until about 11:30 getting it all working. I really wanted to try it out and start cutting some threads but I think my neighbors might complain about me running the lathe at midnight! :nuts:

The gearbox and quadrant gears make a bit of noise but nothing worrisome. Now the QCGB tumbler doesn't just randomly disengage and I no longer have any gear slippage. I did notice that the 32 tooth gear was a bit worn. If I have to replace another I'm going this route again. I think that gear I can get for another $30. I'd just have to cut a keyway for that one. 

Hopefully over the weekend I can finally finish my spindle plug gage, and then be able to re-thread my 3 jaw chuck backplate. I'm really getting tired of having to dial everything in with the 4 jaw!


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## AR1911

Excellent!

I love a happy ending :man:


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## Kennyd

Wow Kent, sounds like a great fix you did!  Where are the pictures?


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## PurpLev

thats good news!

when the lathe is engaged in feed gears it will make considerably more noise then when it's not. it's just the nature of the beast - you have metal against metal movement in high speed. just make sure it's lubed properly so that you won't get excessive grinding action on those gears.


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## vt-biketim

architard said:


> Again, I wonder if anyone is still following this thread. It must be the longest in history...
> 
> ...Then I machined off the old gear, but instead of machining it down to .625" I left it proud about 1.5 thou. So I could slip the gear over the threads but then press fit it onto the original gear location. Then I turned down the hub and faced the gear to match the original width.



So, now that months have gone by, did you key this at all or are you relying on the .0015 interference fit to move the carriage? How's it working?



architard said:


> ..If you notice the posting time you can tell I spend all night after work until about 11:30 getting it all working. I really wanted to try it out and start cutting some threads but I think my neighbors might complain about me running the lathe at midnight!



I really love working with this stuff, but hours and hours go by. I hope at some point to have wasted enough metal and electricity to be much faster but still work safely. 



architard said:


> ..The gearbox and quadrant gears make a bit of noise but nothing worrisome. Now the QCGB tumbler doesn't just randomly disengage and I no longer have any gear slippage.



I was really worried about my 4902 popping out of gear sometimes, esp. after I did a little fiddling with set screws and it seemed to get worse. When I finally got almost to the point where you had it, and the box was off the lathe and really getting cleaned, I realized that the ABC knob needs to be pretty snug down on its shaft for the ball detent to engage securely. It had popped out a tad on me when I loosened up the set screw to take a peek. It is impossible to simultaneously push inward on the knob and outward on the other end of the shaft/gear and then tighten up the set screw unless you have the unit off the lathe and can get your fingers in it. I suspect lots of school shop lathes like mine had this happen over the years and suffered damage from it. All works fine now, once you get used to the fact that the feed directions are different for plain turning and threading. 

Tim


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## architard

Has it really been months? Well once you get something up and running who has time for forums! 

Tim, I got a very good press fit on the gear and didn't worry about keying it in. I can happily report it worked fine. I have the same issues with the abc dial as well. A little adjustment and that is working fine as well. 

I finally got some grease on the gear train as the manual says to lubricate it with and this quieted down the gears quite a bit. However the grease doesn't seem to stay on there too long and it just gets loud again. 

Once I got the gear box fixed I was able to finally thread up my spindle plug gage. Then I commenced re-boring and threading the backplate that was on my 3 jaw. I was using a home made boring bar with an old 1/4" drill bit as a threading bit. That didn't go over too well with the cast iron. I was getting a crappy finish when I realized I had some 1/4" round hss that I picked up at harbor freight. I ground a new thread bit on that and finished up the threads. As soon as the spindle gage threaded in, I was done! Low and behold when go to thread the cast iron backplate onto the lathe, I realize that the hub is too short and the spindle nose is bottoming out against the chuck before it fully seats against the spindle shoulder. :angry:

So after all that effort to reuse the backplate it didn't work. Luckily I still had the backplate that came with the lathe and machined the snout on that too fit the 3 jaw. Mount the chuck and it looks to run very true. That is till I mount some stock and see quite a bit of run-out. From what I can tell the chuck itself is dead nuts on center so I think I have a jaw problem. 

I probably attempted something stupid, but I got a big hose clamp and tensioned the chuck jaws, mounted my Dremel flexible attachment in a tool holder and attempted to regrind the jaws. I went through a few tries on this and just can't seem to get the slop out of the jaws. Seems like one chuck screw gets things on center better than the others but still not great. I haven't even attempted to measure the run-out because it's visibly noticeable. I might have to put this 3 jaw away until I can figure out what I'm doing wrong. So for now I'm still stuck dialing everything in on the 4 jaw. Ugh. 

Some new issues have cropped up however. When I put the carriage back on I used the shims that were already on it. I've subsequently noticed a lot of slop, so much that I could lift the carriage a bit. I could fit a .016 feeler guage between the worst of the carriage clamps even after taking the shims out. So I ended up having to lap a bit of metal off the front carriage clamps to where I have about a thou of clearance. Now things are much tighter. 

I'm starting to practice some knurling and I'm having issues with the carriage hand-wheel clutch. I had no idea how tight it should be when I put it together and with the amount of tension against the carriage from knurling I can't move the carriage without the clutch kicking in. I didn't want to overtighten so now I guess I have to figure out just how tight it should be. 

In making my first morse tapers for the tail stock I've come to the conclusion that the taper is pretty trashed. It's grooved considerably. I was using high spot blueing to test the fits and couldn't seem to get the fit right.  When I put the same taper in a brand new mt3 to mt2 drill adapter it was an almost perfect fit, so I realized it was my tailstock not my part. It's a minor issue since it still holds well enough but someday I'd like to replace the tailstock ram. 

It should have been evident to me when I bought the lathe but if a lathe *looks *like it has been abused, it probably means it *has *been abused. I can say however that restoring this thing has been quite fun, I've learned so much, and because of it I know this machine inside and out. I'm not afraid at all to tear an assembly down the second it starts acting up because I know how it all goes back together. Not too mention that collectively I've probably torn down and re-assembled everything on this lathe at least 3 times. TAKE TONS OF PICTURES AND NOTES when you disassemble something like this!

Oh and pictures...

A few things are pictured, the fix of the tumbler bracket and replacement knob as well as the geared shaft fix and a shot of my lackluster jaw grinding setup.


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## Smokey Joel 3355

AR
I HAVE  A CLAUSING 2914 MYSELF.  I CHANGED MY LATHE TO VARIABLE SPEED USING A HUNANG VFD.  IT TOOK ME A LONG TIME TO GET THE 1 HP MOTOR RUNNING WITH THE VFD BUT I DID.  I MOUNTED A 4 BUTTON REMOTE CONTROL ON THE LATHE.  I RAN CAT 6 FROM THE VFD TO THE REMOTE.  I COVERED THE WIRE WITH COPPER TAPE I GOT OFF EBAY FOR SHIELDING.  I RAN # A WIRE, I HAD, THROUGH SEAL TEIGHT CONDUIT AND WIRED THE MOTOR TO THE VFD.  THE CONTROL WIRING WAS ALSON RUN THROUGH SEAL TIGHT CONDUIT, 1/2 INCH.  I DROVE A GROUND ROD IN THE GROUND THROUGH A HOLE IN THE GARAGE FLOOR AND GROUNDED MY LATHE.  THE HARD PART WAS THE PROGRAMMING.  SO FAR I HAVE IT RUNNING IN FOWARD AND REVERSE AND CONTROLLING THE SPEED WITH A SPEED POD. 
I DID NOT READ HOW YOU WERE RUNNING YOUR CLAUSING LATHE BUT IF YOU WANT ALL THE DIRECTIONS AND EQUIPMENT REQUIRED FOR CHANGING YOUR  LATHE TO VARIABLE SPEED, LET ME KNOW.  I HAVE THE PROGRAM WROTE DOWN FOR THE HUNANG  VFD TO RUN YOUR LATHE.  I CAN EMAIL YOU WITH IF YOU HAVE NOT GIVE UP ON YOUR LATHE.

MY CLAUSING LATHE COST 2200.00 DOLLARS.  IT HAD ALL THE TOOLING ON IT.  IT HAD A THREE JAW CHUCK AND A STANDARD SQUARE TOOL HOLDER. I CHANGED IT TO A QUICK CHANGE TOOL POST AND HOLDERS.
I AM NOT AS GOOD AT WELDING AND WORKING ON REBUILDING A LATHE AS YOU ARE SO I WENT FOR THE HIGHER COST MACHINE.  IT CAN BE SEEN ON YOUTUBE UNDER CLAUSING 4914 VIDEO.

DO YOU STILL HAVE YOUR CLAUSING 4913 LATHE AND HAVE YOU MADE ANY THING ON IT YET?  I AM A MACHINIST BUT ONLY MAKE THINGS IN MY SHOP AS A HOBBY.  I LIKE TO HEAR FROM THOSE WHO HAVE THE SAME EQUIPMENT AS I DO. IF YOU KNOW OF ANY SITES THAT HAVE GOOD REBUILD OR PROJECTS LET ME KNOW. 

THANKS AND GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR LATHE

SJ


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## carlbob

Kennyd said:


> See my answers in RED
> 
> 
> Thanks Ken. The bull gear pin was stuck. I had been spraying it with PB blaster thinking it was stuck. After I read your post, I went out and levered it gently with a screwdriver and it popped right out. I was then able to engage the back gear and get the spindle to move.
> 
> It doesn't say it in the manual, but I'd imagine that actually comes in handy when you want to lock the spindle if you need to get off a stuck chuck?
> I have read that is a no-no because you can break a gear tooth. But I have used that method in general practice (Not a "stuck" chuch however)
> 
> I've got the motor out now and hooked up to the VFD in my workshop. Using what you told me about the drum switch I was able to hook it up as the forward neutral reverse controlling the VFD and motor. You were right, once I had everything in front of me it was a piece of cake. Thanks again! And go ahead and call me a dork for saying this but this VFD is pretty freakin cool.
> Yes, they are pretty freakin' cool!
> 
> I have a huge Delta abrasive metal chop saw I picked up on eBay ages ago. It's still in my mom's basement. It has a massive 3 phase motor. I had thought I'd get rid of the thing because it would be too much trouble to run. Now I'm thinking a VFD hooked up to it would be great, you could even slow it down enough to run it as a cold saw. Too bad I don't have any room for it. hmmm...
> 
> Anyway, the tool post slide and the compound slide are pretty buggered up. As I was aware the tool post slide is welded on both sides indicating it had been broken at some time. In addition to that, the compound slide has a pin inserted into the end of it limiting it's travel. As far as I can tell it's also limiting me from taking the whole thing apart. I can't imagine why someone would put the pin there. The slide end, where it is inserted, is pretty chewy. Do you think it would be ok to carefully cut this pin off with a cut off disk? Then file it down flush the way it should be?
> Yeah, I don't see why that is there.  maybe a little heat on it and you could pull it out?  The proper "limit" is a screw in the end of the dovetail with a washer on it.
> 
> Also I can't tell from the exploded diagram but is the compound screw supposed to be two pieces? It looks to me like it was also broken at some point. The acme screw was held onto the rest of the shaft with a flat head brass screw and nut that do not look original at all. Also where the shaft attaches to the acme screw looks like it was welded on.
> I can't remember exactly. In this picture-the screw on the left-just in front of the gear looks like a pin.  I did not take this apart.
> View attachment 38779
> 
> 
> Another thing I noticed is that the tail stock handle was broken, and re-welded as well. I'm starting to wonder how bad this thing is. I think the main thing is, the ways are in good shape and the spindles in great shape too. Everything else I can fix.
> 
> To answer your question, this thing is so nasty I think it's going to take a complete tear down just to get it clean, and if I have it completely apart I might as well do a full on restore. I'm actually surprised how much I've got done in just one day. Of course it's always much easier taking it apart than putting back together.
> 
> By the way, how much paint did it take to do your machine? Is the TSC light ford gray almost white? It looks that way in your photos. Did you use the catalyst hardener with that paint? Did you brush it on, spray or both?
> I think I used 1 quart, possibly  2.  I would not say almost white, I think the flash makes it look  whiter than it is.  I did use the hardener on the big parts.  I used  mostly a small foam roller since it was winter and I could not spray  outside.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 38779


Very nice looking 4914  I also have the same lathe and tore down, repaired and painted mine white.  I didn't use hardener and am getting oil stains on the white painted surfaces.  Oh well, it is a lathe that i use almost daily so what can I expect.  
The 4914 is sure a sweet machine in my book.


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## carlbob

I'm also the proud owner of a 4914.  Great gear head lathe and is very accurate.  I rented a trailer from u-haul and used 3 straps to secure it during an hours drive home.  It rode well and like you used a 2 ton engine hoist to unload it and move it into the shop.  Not a big deal, but it would have been much easier with a 2nd person to help.  Mine came with a 1hp 220 motor that I replaced with a harbor freight 2hp motor for 120 or240 volt.  Works great and no issues.  I don't have 240 in my garage so this works just fine and much cheaper than having to buy a vfd or anything else.
Look on e-bay or amazon for chucks and backing plates.  I have bought everything for tooling as well as backing plates from those sights, and it's the same quality for much less than many of the machinery websites.  I just purchased a shars 6 inch 3 jaw chuck made by shars for less than 120.00 and it's a great chuck.  I've got 0 run-out when measured at the chuck and  at the tail stock after turning.  Can't beat that.  Yes our backing plates are hard to find because of the thread count and diameter, about 70.00 dollars, but what can you do?
l Hope you get your lathe home and enjoy yours as much as I do mine.


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