# Water-Cooled TIG connectors confusion



## graham-xrf (May 16, 2021)

I have purchased WP-20 size water cooled TIG torch, branded "CK-20". I have to hope that it is a good brand, because it cost a bit more than the China imports, though for me (UK) it was still an import. I had been happily checking out all the bits, and it has caused me some questions about pipe thread sizes compatibility. I will try and explain..
Start with pictures - always better for clarity 



	

		
			
		

		
	
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For my welder, the electrical connection is by the European-style 13mm "insert-and twist" thing with the lug on it, and no gas nor water comes out via the welder. Gas and fluid stuff is all elternal to the welder. The adapter to connect to the water return, while making the electrical connection is shown. The very same is used for the standard setup where the gas goes up the power lead.

In the CK booklet, it shows the gas goes in the black pipe, the water goes in the blue pipe, and the water return comes out the red, which is a combination water + electrical current pipe.

The adapter standard 3/8" BSP threads (that's BSPP, not taper sort) would the very same 3/8" shown in the CK blurb leaflet, and and first sight, look to be the right size - but they are not! The red lead female starts to screw on, about one turn, and then binds up. I guess I need either a different product, or some other thread adapter to get it coupled up.

Thus the questions..
What does "DINSE" acronym stand for?
Are the sizes something special to welding?
Are these standard across brands?
Is this situation something to do with a difference between USA 3/8" pipe threads, and UK 3/8" pipe threads?

I could use a little help figuring out what to get to put this kit together.


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## NC Rick (May 16, 2021)

The dinse connector is likely the same thing you have with a twist and lock.  I recently got the same torch for my Everlast welder and yes the water connection is the red hose and in an added on join with a “flying” hose to go to the cooler.  I can post a photo later.  I. Using quick connectors that were made for the hoses.  I dont know what pipe thread it is, i assume metric or BSPP.

edit:  on the air cooled torch the gas used to go in when the water comes out (if im correct on the flow direction) and the black gas hose is a separate connector hose to the gas outlet on my welder.  Red and blue water hoses go to the cooler.


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## General Zod (May 17, 2021)

All you need is the water-cooled DINSE connector, I'm almost positive of it. 

BTW, is that the _actual _torch you _received _with those _exact _fittings?  If it is not, can you post a picture of the actual unit?  REAL pictures would simplify things a lot.


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## graham-xrf (May 17, 2021)

General Zod said:


> All you need is the water-cooled DINSE connector, I'm almost positive of it.
> 
> BTW, is that the _actual _torch you _received _with those _exact _fittings? If it is not, can you post a picture of the actual unit? REAL pictures would simplify things a lot.


OK - The picture is of the real kit. I take it that this torch is a decent one?
Of course, it still needs collets, and stuff, and I have to get in some filler rod.

The gas/water adapter (is that what is called "DINSE"? ) has a thread that is supposedly BSPP 3/8".  It very nearly starts to go on, but binds up after about 3/4 turn. There is a threads mismatch.  I am going to measure it as best I can to find out what is odd here.


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## Stonebriar (May 17, 2021)

*Dinse* Plugs push in and twist to lock and are the most common type of *plug* for *fitting* welding cables to welding machines. Two common *sizes* are available 10-25 which has a 9. 5mm (3/8") *diameter* pin and 35-50 which has a 12.

CK is one of the major brands here in the US. As you can see this is a special size that I think are only used on welding machines and you will require an adapter.


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## Lo-Fi (May 17, 2021)

3/8bsp has nominal thread outer diameter of 16.6mm. Machines not made in places that cling to archaic standards now often use M16x1.5 threads for torch connections, and indeed it's entirely possible that's the case here. 1 turn and binding would seem about right.


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## NC Rick (May 17, 2021)

I got all the stuff from CK so it was plug and play.  I had trouble taking a photo holding the ipad in one hand amd the connector in the other.  My “dinse port” measures 13mm I.D. And the male part with the cam protruding is 12.7mm O.D. cam excluded.


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## NC Rick (May 17, 2021)

Remember, you are reading this on the internet, i am not an expert.  I have played one a few times…. I think the thread is 3/8 BSPP (British standard pipe, parallel). 19 threads per inch.  These are widely used throughout Europe AFAIK.
Sealing is not via threads. I measure the major diameter to be right at about 16mm.


A great system because tapered threads suck!


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## graham-xrf (May 17, 2021)

Thanks much! I will be doing thread identification tomorrow (it's 10:30pm here).
I also got sidetracked because the contractor arrived about starting breaking ground for my outhouse AKA shop/hideout/man cave .
I may be putting all aside for that soon


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## NC Rick (May 17, 2021)

my cooler is new and the CK-20 torch with the water cooling is a fantastic upgrade.  My 9 and even my 17 air (gas) cooled torches got uncomfortable very quickly.  Now i can ”choke up” on the torch head all i want.  Super happy with mine.  The torch cost me a little more than the cooler once all said and done.


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## graham-xrf (May 19, 2021)

Having looked on the interweb, I get the impression that , even though CK sells lots of kit, and the functional parts are good, they have a deliberately contrary thread connection that a DINSE water entry coupler would have to mate to. Not only CK, but Miller too, and more. There seem to be zillions of various connector styles and sizes. To get a full working kit, one generaly has to buy all the stuff as one brand, and even within the brand, a near unique combination with definite part codes. There is an entire third party industry in brass adapters to get around thread incompatibilities, and I hope to find one that suits my kit.

Maybe I am not surprised that the DINSE water coupler from CK is about $76, when the intrinsic value + vendor margin should have it at between $20 and £35. I get it that deliberate unnecessary incompatibilities are an obvious marketing strategy, and there is always business pressure to have it that way, but disappointing.

In the end, I will have a solution, and I do that hope getting there involves less than the balance between the DINSE I have, and $76 !


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## akjeff (May 19, 2021)

I just set up my welder( an ESAB Rebel 205 AC/DC ) with the same torch that @NC Rick has. Tried it out tonight, and love it! Also ordered it from the same vendor as he did. Simply told them what model welder/cooler I had, and it arrived with the torch, the proper DINSE connector/adapter, and it was plug and play. While the multitude of DINSE adapters is a bit of a pain to weed through, I get it. Much more efficient to make a more or less standard torch, and then the needed DINSE adapters to fit to the various connectors used by all the welder manufactures. Otherwise they'd have to stock a dozen or more different torches. Hope you get it sorted out. I think you'll be happy with the result when you do.


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## NC Rick (May 20, 2021)

graham-xrf said:


> Having looked on the interweb, I get the impression that , even though CK sells lots of kit, and the functional parts are good, they have a deliberately contrary thread connection that a DINSE water entry coupler would have to mate to. Not only CK, but Miller too, and more. There seem to be zillions of various connector styles and sizes. To get a full working kit, one generaly has to buy all the stuff as one brand, and even within the brand, a near unique combination with definite part codes. There is an entire third party industry in brass adapters to get around thread incompatibilities, and I hope to find one that suits my kit.
> 
> Maybe I am not surprised that the DINSE water coupler from CK is about $76, when the intrinsic value + vendor margin should have it at between $20 and £35. I get it that deliberate unnecessary incompatibilities are an obvious marketing strategy, and there is always business pressure to have it that way, but disappointing.
> 
> In the end, I will have a solution, and I do that hope getting there involves less than the balance between the DINSE I have, and $76 !


I don't know a lot about the other options.  When I purchased a previous CK-9 I bought the adapter through the welder manufacture (more accurately-importer) who i bought my welder from and paid less for the connector hardware.  In this case, i wanted to purchase through a particular vendor who makes and has made a lot of videos which have been enjoyable, informative and helpful to me.  I was surprised at how much the adapters cost and i even ended up with some duplication of QD fittings since some came with my water cooler.  I was willing to pay for the small vendor’s expertise and for the ease of me not having to think about The options too much.  The vendor got it all exactly right which is something i value.  In reality, my use case doesn’t actually require a water cooled torch yet the upgrade is one of my favorite new tools / toys and has proven to be a great R.O.I. When it comes to $ spent to utility and enjoyment.
I think you are likely exactly right with regard to the profitability of the adapters.  I'm thinking, as a vendor or even a manufacturer, i would have to have a high margin on parts that have to be picked out per customer application and ones that if a mistake was made (not hard to imagine) my feet would be held to the fire (so to speak) with regard to exchanges, shipping and such.  I could be wrong but I don’t think these adapters were engineered with the intention of adding complications but to allow flexibility to suit many different types of TIG welders which are used around the world.


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## General Zod (May 21, 2021)

That TIG torch kit simply has the wrong connectors.  The Dinse connector in NCRick's post is what you should have bought  (SLWHAT-35) and the Torch kit CK2325SF FX.  Done.*  *


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## General Zod (Jun 5, 2021)

update?


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## graham-xrf (Jun 6, 2021)

General Zod said:


> update?


Waiting on the post. 
I contacted the CK supplier from where  I bought the CK20, and they are sending the additional DINSO part with the thread that will match the torch connector. Also, a brass adapter to connect the Argon tube to the bottle regulator.
I will post again when I have more kit arrived. I can already tell there may be more adapters needed before everything is together.

Also, all stuff related to welding and machining is temporarily set aside as the construction of my shop has reached the over-site concrete pour stage. Welding for bench frames, etc. (MIG) is shortly coming up.


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## General Zod (Jun 6, 2021)

Sounds like a complete headache!  lol.


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## akjeff (Jun 7, 2021)

graham-xrf said:


> Waiting on the post.
> I contacted the CK supplier from where  I bought the CK20, and they are sending the additional DINSO part with the thread that will match the torch connector. Also, a brass adapter to connect the Argon tube to the bottle regulator.
> I will post again when I have more kit arrived. I can already tell there may be more adapters needed before everything is together.
> 
> Also, all stuff related to welding and machining is temporarily set aside as the construction of my shop has reached the over-site concrete pour stage. Welding for bench frames, etc. (MIG) is shortly coming up.


Glad to hear your on the way to sorting it out. As long as the adaptors make it work, the weld puddle won't know the difference so do what ya gotta do to make it work! And good luck with the shop upgrades, that takes definite priority over a little TIG torch mixup!


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## graham-xrf (Jun 7, 2021)

akjeff said:


> Glad to hear your on the way to sorting it out. As long as the adaptors make it work, the weld puddle won't know the difference so do what ya gotta do to make it work! And good luck with the shop upgrades, that takes definite priority over a little TIG torch mixup!


Thanks! Yes, in the end, I will make it work. There is yet the water cooler arrangement. I already had exactly the right Permatex-style pump, and a cute new radiator heat exchanger that (I think) is a type used in car heater systems. Sure, I could expend several hundred UK pounds on a noisy box with yet more BSP thread connects that you can't just screw a CK torch onto sans adapters, but I thought I could manage a cute little cooler project.

In some ways, the kit I am getting, not only for the welder, but also in most other areas I have interests in, is almost hoarding for future playtime. The domestic fixup stuff I get up to right now, I press on with an urgency to "get it out of the way". This time, I have hit the point where I am thinking "Good Lord - what have I done"? There will now be a 20 x 12 insulated space there under a pitch roof with storage loft, power, water, and internet. Keep in mind I am building in a National Park. It all has to be "just so"!

The compatibility of connections I will post on separately. It is in the nature of me to measure accurately, and tell it like it is

You are right about the priorities. For me, the first is the people in my life, family, friends, and what we need and like to live.  The workshop to be, is next. If you think I am near not knowing what I am doing, you would be right!  For quite a lot of it, I am just making it up as I go. Here I post a WIP picture of what has displaced putting together welding kit.


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## graham-xrf (Jun 8, 2021)

An update on my adventures with (the gorgeous) CK20 water-cooled torch that does not fit anything. The DINSO, and a small adapter intended to get me connected to the gas regulator arrived.

So I tried to connect the red lead to the CK supplied DINSO. Er ..  no fit!  I almost started laughing!
What??  The DINSO threads were identical to the DINSO I already had, in fact, they fit each each other, all of them standard 3/8" BSPP. The female brass connectors on the torch leads were still a law unto themselves, all the same, and all wrong!

I phoned, and nice guy at official CK suppliers in UK said they they were all supposed to be 3/8" BSPP.
He said that I could send everything back free of charge, and he would set up or replace all as necessary to have them go together.
Yes - this is OK with me!

THEN .. I happened to try the other little brass adapter I had ordered, supposedly 3/8" BSPP to 1/4" BSPP, to get the black lead onto the gas regulator, and wow! That bit of brass actually fits the CK20 leads. Whatever that thread is, it is not an accident! The torch still won't screw on to it's own DINSO though, so I have packed it all up for return. They have emailed me a parcel label.

The kit is clearly very good stuff. We are just having a few stumbles. 

[Edit: Neglected so far, but I think I should get in at least some electrode, and ceramic cup stuff. There seems so many sizes and types. Gas savers, gas lenses, clear see-thru cups (would they be quartz?). Kits with whole rows of stuff. Do they really have such a short life?  Still reading about it all. ]


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## akjeff (Jun 9, 2021)

Sounds like CK is going to get you squared away, that's excellent. I've only been TIG welding for a few years, so take my advice for what it's worth, which is about zero! My machine is maxed out at around 200A, and I mainly use it on .125" or thinner material, but occasionally up to .250". I'd say 75% of the time, the torch has a #8 Furick cup w/gas lens and 3/32" electrode. It's fine on steel or aluminum. If doing stainless or chrome moly, I go to a larger cup, especially on stainless, or joints that require a lot of electrode stick out. I often use a clear cup as I like them, but they are extremely fragile.


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## graham-xrf (Jun 9, 2021)

@akjeff  : Thanks for the clues about consumables. It is inevitable that I will at some point be trying it out on (thin) stainless. Is there a hexavalent chrome hazard?  I guess I mean .. does one have to do such welding outside and need breathing protection?

Come to that, the mask(s) I have are 3M, the ones that make users look like an extra from "The Fly". They have enough dust particle filtration, and activated carbon to take out organics like solvents, paints etc. Do folk use something like these with filters intended for welding fumes? I know nothing about this aspect.  I guess I will end up binge-watching YouTube on this.

I know the obvious. One needs the welding gloves, and jacket, or at least some protection up the arms. I have my trusty leather apron, and I guess it would help against hot slag, or dropping hot stuff on me, but I have never been so properly been into welding situations enough to get any special stuff.


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## General Zod (Jun 9, 2021)

hex chrome is more of a concern when you MIG or stickweld stainless from what I've read.  TIG welding should not produce a plume of hex chrome smoke, and if it does, there is something terribly wrong with the setup or the weldor.  I will add that there could very well be some hex chrome produced with TIG welding, but with MIG or stick welding....well if you haven't seen how much smoke those processes produce...LOL.  That being said I always wear a 3M respirator with 2297 filters.  Always.



			Respirator Question - Welding Tips and Tricks
		







						Choosing the Proper Respirator/Filter for...
					

I have gotten into TIGing together metal sculptures from used bicycle parts and am trying to choose a respirator and filter. I do my best to prep/clean the metals I work with, but invariably I can't get everything. The materials that come up which I am concerned about are...    * Chrome plating...



					weldingweb.com
				









						1st welding lesson
					

The man teaching me spent about an hour going over basic tools and explained what they did just so I'd have some familiarity with what did what. We looking at some of the projects he's made over the years and he explained why he made them and how. After that, we started cutting. I cut the same...



					weldingweb.com


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## graham-xrf (Jun 10, 2021)

On "1st welding lesson", there is something a bit wrong about it!

This is quite besides the low self-esteem, and the apparently 40 years professionally experienced welder offering truly crappy setups. The best most experienced welders do not simply show their prowess by routinely welding on filthy rusted metal. Oxide between the butt joint surfaces _has_ to be removed, and no professional welder would put up with it. On some of the practice pieces, the rust was not so bad as to be too much of a disadvantage, but even so, I doubt good welders would skip a quick cleanup unless they were in one hell of a hurry!

The picture that put it beyond all doubt for me had to be one the of the galvanized Unistrut. Even before I had ever attempted stick weld #1, I knew never to do this!  I that situation, I would have felt doubt that teacher's professional 40 years was well spent!

Zinc metal and other related vapours released in a weld arc are incredibly toxic, and may involve gases that will pass straight through particulate filters. Being inorganic, they might not be much stopped by activated carbon either. Who would deliberately make a weld joint in steel contaminated by zinc? Regardless the very little I know about welding, I know to grind back the galvanizing beyond where the arc can liberate zinc!


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## Lo-Fi (Jun 10, 2021)

There's literally one video you need to watch as a beginner TIG welder:






Followed by:






Don't overthink it. Basic consumables.  Keep it simple. Even a water cooled torch is overkill for setting out IMHO. The important thing is practice, which fusting with kit only detracts from. Only thing I'd say, and I think Justin mentions: use larger diameter Tungstens. 2.4mm are great. 1.6mm are a path to deep frustration. You can weld low amps with a big tungsten just fine, but not the other way around!

Latest H&S guidance is that any welding fumes are mildly carcinogenic. Industry is switching to air fed masks. Is it an issue for an occasional use hobbyist? Maybe not. Diesel fumes are pretty darn harmful and we still merrily pump that into the atmosphere.... 
You're very wise to stay clear of galvanized stuff, though. It's often truly horrid to weld even with good prep.


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## General Zod (Jun 10, 2021)

graham-xrf said:


> On "1st welding lesson", there is something a bit wrong about it!
> 
> This is quite besides the low self-esteem, and the apparently 40 years professionally experienced welder offering truly crappy setups. The best most experienced welders do not simply show their prowess by routinely welding on filthy rusted metal. Oxide between the butt joint surfaces _has_ to be removed, and no professional welder would put up with it. On some of the practice pieces, the rust was not so bad as to be too much of a disadvantage, but even so, I doubt good welders would skip a quick cleanup unless they were in one hell of a hurry!
> 
> ...


Perhaps so and I do agree with what you wrote;  but I wasn't linking that thread for anything other than the _information on the 3M filters._ So I think you read a bit too much into it and didn't find the individual post about filtration.


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## General Zod (Jun 10, 2021)

Lo-Fi said:


> There's literally one video you need to watch as a beginner TIG welder:
> 
> Followed by:
> 
> ...



His two newer videos go much, much more in-depth at a more fundamental level to understand TIG welding and why new TIG welders who don't have professional/experienced assistance struggle quite a bit at first.  Once the consumables/setup is 'good to go' then these are excellent videos to learn from:


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## graham-xrf (Jun 10, 2021)

Lo-Fi said:


> There's literally one video you need to watch as a beginner TIG welder:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes - I agree. My logic was I was likely only going to get one TIG torch, so I made it the water cooled type


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## graham-xrf (Jun 10, 2021)

General Zod said:


> Perhaps so and I do agree with what you wrote;  but I wasn't linking that thread for anything other than the _information on the 3M filters._ So I think you read a bit too much into it and didn't find the individual post about filtration.


It's OK. I did understand what you intended, and yes, the context was about 3M filters. I guess I let the topic stray a bit.
Your kit, and what you do is just about the gold standard here, and do appreciate that you do the go-slow basics for me.

The torch kit is now back with nice guy at CK (UK branch). I may have to end up with more items from their catalogue before I am done.


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## graham-xrf (Jun 11, 2021)

Regulator with 2 gauges on it is perhaps not enough. I need a flow-meter tube thing - right?
That provides a fertile setting for a whole lot more wrong-sex adapters


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## Lo-Fi (Jun 11, 2021)

Nah, not really. It's a nice to have bell/whistle, but the second gauge is quite accurate enough for hobby use. I never pay any attention to it anyway and set by ear!


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## jwmelvin (Jun 11, 2021)

Get a torch flow meter, which will be a useful way to make sure you have the desired flow where it counts:









						Welding Gas Flow Meter 50020 Measure Shield Torch Head Checker Tester Argon CO2  | eBay
					

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					www.ebay.com


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## graham-xrf (Jun 17, 2021)

Catching up on this. The nice man at CK shop arranged the return of the CK20 torch, DINSO, and everything. He was surprised you could get a combination that would not fit itself. A whole replacement set has arrived, with DINSO, and extra adapter to regulator. Everything brand new, DINSO plastic pack squeezed into the same box. This time, it fits itself 

The water cooler is coming together. I got some 1.6mm and 2.4mm 2% lanthanated (blue) tungsten electrodes. There is a bunch of smaller stuff to get (collets, cups, etc). One thing that has got me curious are the long(ish) black back caps. Presumably to cover the unused bit of electrode that sticks out the back, they seem to be sold in multiples of 5. So do they often break, or wear out somehow?


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## jwmelvin (Jun 17, 2021)

Dropping a torch can break the back cap but they don’t otherwise seem to need replacing. Whatever set I bought came with a variety of lengths.


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## ericc (Jun 17, 2021)

You mentioned a two gauge regulator.  If the low pressure side gauge is really a flowmeter, marked in cfh, that is all you need.  Or, if you have doubts, buy a cheap peashooter, as mentioned above.  Or, if funds are really tight, use a sandwich bag, but without the zip lock closure on top.  They close more easily.  Or if funds are really, really tight, use a poly vegetable bag.  Don't bother cleaning the little pieces of vegetable out of it, since they don't affect the calibration.  Or, if funds are really, really, really tight, use a pair of scissors to cut a few inches off the top of the bag, so it takes less gas to fill.  You have to be quicker on the stopwatch though.


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## General Zod (Jun 17, 2021)

I would also recommend some 3.2mm 2% La tungsten.  The advantage of a larger tungsten (besides current carrying capability) is that the point stays sharper, longer.  Especially with 2% La;  it typically erodes a little bit faster than say 2% Th.

Back-cap's can break if you accidentally drop the torch, so keep all the ones you got.

As for the flow-meter or dial-type regulator, think/test empirically:  using a standard #7 cup, 4mm arc length, set to ~20 CFH create a ¼" (~6mm) diameter weld pool in the flat position by holding your arm/hand steady, and have the argon tank within the other arm's reach.  Turn down the flow until you start to get the tiniest bit of sparks/porosity (don't go too far or you'll make it "pop" and spit up molten steel on to the tig torch cup and tungsten).  Then you can see what flow on the regulator/meter is the no-go zone, and bump it up from there, say 3-4 CFH.  That will clear the no-go zone, and use the bare minimum amount of argon with a good safety net.  Of course this would only be valid for that particular arc length, and welding position but it will be pretty close for others; some need more (like an outside corner joint), some need less (like an inside corner joint).


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## graham-xrf (Jun 17, 2021)

ericc said:


> You mentioned a two gauge regulator.  If the low pressure side gauge is really a flowmeter, marked in cfh, that is all you need.  Or, if you have doubts, buy a cheap peashooter, as mentioned above.  Or, if funds are really tight, use a sandwich bag, but without the zip lock closure on top.  They close more easily.  Or if funds are really, really tight, use a poly vegetable bag.  Don't bother cleaning the little pieces of vegetable out of it, since they don't affect the calibration.  Or, if funds are really, really, really tight, use a pair of scissors to cut a few inches off the top of the bag, so it takes less gas to fill.  You have to be quicker on the stopwatch though.


OK - two things going on here. One is about flowmeter, which is OK. The other is about a novel use of plastic bags as a ghetto flow-meter device. I am having a bit of a hard time visualizing them, but respect and kudos to those who get something like that to work - in a pinch maybe. 

Regarding the regulator gauges, I have just had a careful look at the gauge dials, which I might call "Eastern bloc aspirational". They look rugged enough, an impression conveyed by the ribbed rubber/plastic covers. The font is regrettably small enough to be quite at home in a USA insurance contract, but the key thing to know is that the second gauge _is_ a flowmeter!  At least, that is what is implied by "l/min", even though the "L" is lowercase.

The construction of the second gauge is of the shape and style of a pressure gauge, but I have to hope it has some differential arrangement down in the innards that makes it capable of measuring flow. The dials are marked in two colours, but in a confusing way. On the pressure dial, red is PSI and black is in bar, which I am more familiar with. Unfortunately, the initial clear use of colour code then gets thrown into some confusion by seeing "*Ar/CO2*".  I get what you would call a "peashooter". At least one can see how that style works!

*The flow-meter calibrations don't make much sense*
We can go with a known 20 CFH means 9.44 litres/minute. There is no flow units correspondence between the reds and the blacks. Just about any TIG stuff one could get up to would only move the reading into the first 25% of scale.










I just know you guys must think I am close to nuts, but I can't help the way I think, and I can get kinda skeptical about stuff when I don't know exactly what it does. I absolutely know there will be no problem in getting something going, even if the gauge were not there at all, or substituted with an @ericc plastic zip-bag special, but you have to admit the flowmeter dial is just a tad strange!


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## graham-xrf (Jun 17, 2021)

General Zod said:


> I would also recommend some 3.2mm 2% La tungsten.  The advantage of a larger tungsten (besides current carrying capability) is that the point stays sharper, longer.  Especially with 2% La;  it typically erodes a little bit faster than say 2% Th.
> 
> Back-cap's can break if you accidentally drop the torch, so keep all the ones you got.
> 
> As for the flow-meter or dial-type regulator, think/test empirically:  using a standard #7 cup, 4mm arc length, set to ~20 CFH create a ¼" (~6mm) diameter weld pool in the flat position by holding your arm/hand steady, and have the argon tank within the other arm's reach.  Turn down the flow until you start to get the tiniest bit of sparks/porosity (don't go too far or you'll make it "pop" and spit up molten steel on to the tig torch cup and tungsten).  Then you can see what flow on the regulator/meter is the no-go zone, and bump it up from there, say 3-4 CFH.  That will clear the no-go zone, and use the bare minimum amount of argon with a good safety net.  Of course this would only be valid for that particular arc length, and welding position but it will be pretty close for others; some need more (like an outside corner joint), some need less (like an inside corner joint).


This seems to be a great way to check out and get used to what works relative to what the gauges say. I now have a 20L cylinder of pure Argon (at 200 bar) devoted to TIG. The other cylinder, having 5% CO2 in it, is for MIG. The gas vendor will take any mix, and supply something different, but I opted for the two bottles.

OK on the recommending 3.2mm La Tungsten. So far I have ordered 10 x 1.6mm, and 10 x 2.4mm so far. The welder is rated 200A at 45% duty cycle, which is why I thought 3.2mm might lay on a bit lumpy, even if I had it maxed out!  For 4mm to 6mm thick joints, I guess it would take all of the 200A. The continuous 100% rating is 155A. This is OK by me. I can quite believe that I could spend 55% of the cycle time between weld starts either grieving over, or admiring the joints. I also think I am going to expend quite a lot of gas just practicing on any and every bit of loose metal in the place! 

Just to get a look at consumables available, I have been checking out the offerings from Amazon and eBay. Total gazillions of combinations! The advice from the "The Fabrication Series" dude (Justin), in the link provided by @Lo-Fi is to learn to weld with the "standard" style before getting stuff like gas lenses, and stubbies. I just think that if the better flow and maybe up to a third saving on wasted gas is to be had with that good stuff, why use any other?


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## jwmelvin (Jun 17, 2021)

I have used gas lenses on my #20 water cooled torch since day one and see no reason to do otherwise.


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## ericc (Jun 17, 2021)

Your regulator is actually a flowmeter.  See the red line on the black scale?  Set it to that number, and you'll have a good start.  Of course, General Zod is correct about setting the argon to a minimum value for a clean weld for the situation you are in.  The nice thing about the dial flowmeters is that you can set them with the torch off.  The rotameters are actual flow gauges (the ones with the ball in them).  You need to set them with the torch on.

I said don't use zip-lock bags.  They are too expensive.  Just the cheap sandwich bags with the flap are fine.  The medium bags hold almost a liter.  At 20 lpm, they will fill in a little less than 3 seconds.  If you are really picky, you can inflate them in a full bucket of water and measure the water that spills out over the rim.  If you are really tight on funds, you can pour the water on the garden or water the plants.  This is difficult to do with a zip-lock bag, since it is hard to seal the top over the end of the torch.  The zip-lock bags also cost slightly more.


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## graham-xrf (Jun 17, 2021)

ericc said:


> Your regulator is actually a flowmeter.  See the red line on the black scale?  Set it to that number, and you'll have a good start.  Of course, General Zod is correct about setting the argon to a minimum value for a clean weld for the situation you are in.  The nice thing about the dial flowmeters is that you can set them with the torch off.  The rotameters are actual flow gauges (the ones with the ball in them).  You need to set them with the torch on.
> 
> I said don't use zip-lock bags.  They are too expensive.  Just the cheap sandwich bags with the flap are fine.  The medium bags hold almost a liter.  At 20 lpm, they will fill in a little less than 3 seconds.  If you are really picky, you can inflate them in a full bucket of water and measure the water that spills out over the rim.  If you are really tight on funds, you can pour the water on the garden or water the plants.  This is difficult to do with a zip-lock bag, since it is hard to seal the top over the end of the torch.  The zip-lock bags also cost slightly more.


Thanks for the clues about the gauge being a flow meter.
OK - I get it now. You are inflating various size plastic bags while counting seconds, as a way of "measuring"  the gas flow. 

The flowmeter gauge units involved may still need a little detective work. I may settle for believing the numbers in black are litres/minute.

Available gauges and flow meters seem to have a ultra cheap sort, by post from China, around £8.50 to £12.00. Today, the rate is 1.39, so for USA folk, think  around $11.81 to £16.68. Then there is a long gap, with the next cluster starting around £22 to £27 (about $30 to $38). From there, offerings are fewer, in £30 to £45 (about $42 to $62). The cheapo sort seem also to be mostly shiny chrome/nickel plated, while the more expensive ones have the "all brass" steampunk look.

I also see gauges with units kgf/cm2, which is a near approximation to bar.  (1 bar = 1.0197kgf/cm^2)


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## ericc (Jun 17, 2021)

Yes, the flowmeters have a standard orifice.  Pressure drop relates to flow rate.  I just buy name brand flowmeters, like Victor.  I also only buy well-known torches and parts, either Weldcraft or CK Worldwide.  I've used my friends Chinese import welder with all the stuff that they economize on.  I think it is false economy.  The hoses are not crimped correctly, and the collets don't grip tightly, possibly due to metric inconsistencies.  They still weld, as long as the hoses aren't hissing too badly.  I think my friend also blew up his flowmeter, but he did a huge amount of welding, probably more than 10X the price of the welder.  I've blown up 3 flowmeters.  But that was a lot of welding.


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## General Zod (Jun 18, 2021)

graham-xrf said:


> I just think that if the better flow and maybe up to a third saving on wasted gas is to be had with that good stuff, why use any other?



Yes, but let me tell you a story.  I had some porosity issues. I checked everything even to the point of bypassing the machine solenoid.  Even replaced the ENTIRE gas line with a different one, just in case.  Opened the TIG torch to make sure everything was sound, checked all the gas-lens parts and none looked compromised.  Tried a completely different TIG torch and no porosity, so I knew it was somewhere in the other setup.  Porosity went away when I replaced the (immaculate looking/condition) cheap-quality import gas lens collet body/cup and replaced with a standard collet body set-up!  I spent (wasted) 5 hours trouble-shooting everything and it was right there in front of my face.  I couldn't believe it.  I put the cheap gas lens setup back on and BAM porosity again!  I couldn't believe it since it had worked fine previously and was in perfect condition.  I threw out all my non-CK and non-Weldtec TIG parts/consumables after that.  Either CK, Weldtec for gas-lens setups or just a plain collet body/cup setup.  It's not worth the hassle to take a chance on the cheap stuff (for gas lenses;  the import standard collet bodies/collets/cups work just fine).

So yes, I agree, use gas lenses to save a little on shielding gas, but use quality parts.


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