# Jamie's PM-30 build. Clear Path. Acorn. Arizona. Enclosure.



## Jamie_Murray (Mar 6, 2022)

Hello all. First and foremost thank you to the admins and contributors for creating this depository of information. I've seen the other threads on this but  I'm looking for the most up to date information as it seems like there have been a couple of disruptive technologies implemented since my last foray with the G0704. I've spent a decade looking into subtractive and reading forums just like this one. For every one person making a post like this, there are likely hundreds who have the same question. The days of paralysis by analysis are over for me however and I'm ready to make the leap!

My name is Jamie and I am looking into building a CNC machine. I purchased a G0704 in 2014 with the intention of converting it to CNC, but then joined the military shortly thereafter and made the decision to sell it with the plan of coming back to it once I get out. Fast forward to today and I am ready to make the leap.

I'm currently using my G.I. bill benefits towards the eventual goal of a graduate degree in mechanical engineering. My intention is to build a machine which will allow me to grow in the short to medium term with a bigger and better piece of equipment on the time horizon of ~2025-2028. In an effort to hedge against the rapid onset of technological innovation in regards to metallic additive I've made the decision to go with a smaller hobby grade mill. This decision has also been made as my involvement with the local Formula SAE team and colleges in the area would likely allow me access to industrial grade machines for the rare prototype which requires a level of tolerance that optimization cannot provide on my set up.

The Tormach 770MX and 1100MX were looked at, but for the price I'd rather just get a Haas Mini Mill. While I do have the capital to make that purchase I beleive it would be more prudent for me to start with something a bit more manageable to get my feet wet, then make the decision to move to a VF series in a few years while monitoring barrier of entry to additive. The workspace I have for the mill also needs to be taken into consideration. I have a 2.5 car garage but there are many motorcycles and a car which stay there so the space I have to place a machine is approximately 66"L X 46" D X 117" H with an 82" garage door height.

The education that I received while planning my G0704 build as well as a small course I took at ORNL's MDF on Haas equipment was invaluable and has given me a much clearer picture of what I need to do and where I need to go. With that being said, a smart man learns from his mistakes while a wise man learns from the mistakes of others. While I think it isn't necessarily a direct translation, the jist is I'm looking for hindsight from those who have been there and done that. The unknown unknowns so to speak.

Current plan:
PM-25 or PM-30
clearpath servos
Acorn
one shot oiler
flood coolant
power draw bar
After looking at and considering the ProCut enclosure I'm looking into making my own to see what type of rigidity I can get with a column brace.
Band saw
some way for touch off...I've seen converted Renishaw probing as well as cheaper new options
a more quiet air compressor than my loud standing craftsman


I have associated mechanics tools from motorcycle racing and most normal things you would find in a motorcycle shop but my current home manufacturing capability is almost non-existent with a Dremel and files being the primary means of subtractive. I have access to multiple 3D printers at the college if something low strength needs to be produced, but I don't imagine it will be a significant help. The ProCut CNC enclosure looks to be a decent piece of kit. Are there other options out there? I don't mind doing it myself if there is a modular design that allows me to bolt it together but both my access to and knowledge of welding is insufficient at this moment to take that on myself. Fit and finish is a tiny bit important so while it is completely functional, making the enclosure out of wood is not something that I'm interested based off what I've seen so far. But maybe there's a design that is slick and not too hard to do that I don't know about! Teach me please.

So far as I can tell Acorn seems like a superior option to the tried and true Mach 3 in terms of room for overhead development and expandability. Once I possess equipment which can make equipment then I'm sure I'll start to do gradual improvements here and there (Power draw bar, maybe dual belt depending on motor size choice, eventually an ATC). The key is to get limited manufacturing capability ASAP in my current shop which will allow me to grow and justify my plans for building a shop.

As far as expectations are concerned, I'm keeping them tempered I beleive. I should be able to spend enough time taking measurements for software screw compensation to make a machine which is reasonably positionally accurate with low backlash due to the double nut ballscrews. Rigidity will likely be my key limiting factor once motor size/speed is sufficient, but if I go slow and understand the material properties of my work piece then despite the price tag, I should still be able to produce somewhat accurate prototypes that will allow me to grow as an engineer. Then once I'm ready to take the next step for serious production of my designs and starting a business I'll get a bit more serious machine.


SOOOOOOO after all that; what says ye? PM-25 with a Procut CNC enclosure, clearpath servos, acorn, and all the various other subsystems? This would keep me on 115v with a normal wall outlet so one less thing to do for home electrical. Or perhaps an unknown unknown? Tell me what you wish you would have done please!


----------



## Jamie_Murray (Mar 6, 2022)

So it may or may not be too late to make the PM-25 vs PM-30 decision. Dave from Arizonacnc called me today and we had a lengthy chat about a number of things. I was leaning 80 percent towards the PM-30 over the 25 already, but the chat with Dave confirmed that so after seeing there they were listed as in stock after a lengthy backorder I just decided that now is the time and pulled the trigger!!!!

It's probably not as big of a deal to most others, but this is big for me. I had done over a year of weighing options in my early twenties on the G0704 before pulling the trigger and having life change circumstances on me with the military. So finally being in a position where I can create my first machine that will start me down the makers path is very exciting.


----------



## 7milesup (Mar 6, 2022)

That is awesome!   Congrats on the new mill and welcome to the best machining forum on the web!


----------



## ptrotter (Mar 6, 2022)

If you are going with an Arizona CNC kit, I am sure you will be very happy with it.  Dave is great to work with.


----------



## Jamie_Murray (Mar 6, 2022)

7milesup said:


> That is awesome!   Congrats on the new mill and welcome to the best machining forum on the web!


Thank you very much. To make good news better, I just discovered a video uploaded just yesterday by James at Clough42 on YouTube where he has went to great lengths to make as modular a control package as possible. The design is impressively mature and this dude rocks.


----------



## Jamie_Murray (Mar 6, 2022)

ptrotter said:


> If you are going with an Arizona CNC kit, I am sure you will be very happy with it.  Dave is great to work with.


I am almost certain that I will be going with the Arizona CNC kit. My conversation with Dave today confirmed that he is a wealth of knowledge and that if I have issues in the future he could most likely be counted on to help troubleshoot the aspiring machinist.


----------



## Jamie_Murray (Mar 7, 2022)

Did a little work on the rough draft for a mill stand. It's been a while since I opened Fusion and I remembered how to do some things halfway though making this, so let's look more at concept than execution here. Anyone see any glaring issues? My though process is to make a 4" box steel frame to provide as much rigidity to the small base of the PM-30 as possible. Then the column support along with the appropriate shimstack on either side for tramming and squaring purposes?

There are two schools of thought that are immediately apparent to this untrained monkey. The obvious first choice is to place as little load on the machine as possible while still transmitting energy for attenuation. I think this can be done with somewhat accurate welding and shimstack to make up the difference when installing the base and column onto the stand. I haven't decided if I'm going to bolt the stand to the floor or not. It seems like in theory this would provide a better path for energy dissipation? I would imagine that a set of large leveling pads would be a more appropriate choice and is likely the direction I will take. 

The second method that I briefly considered was to store mechanical strain into the column with fixed rate attach points and resurfacing of ways for parallelism. This would reduce the overall strength of the column and attached base as a unit but would have the benefit of requiring a higher force to flex the assembly as the static state is already X% into the stress/strain curve. While the precision to do this may be feasible with enough time, the added complexities when simply considering thermal effects already makes it unfeasible for me. 

Keep it simple stupid. Fill the base and column with as much epoxy sand as you can squeeze in, build a somewhat heavy rigid base and try to not twist anything when we clamp it all down. Any other ideas?


----------



## Jamie_Murray (Mar 7, 2022)

Good news. A friend of mine has the capability to do the enclosure. (And being a machinist with a shop himself, I beleive he will do a good job). I wish that I had the equipment/space/time to do this part of the build myself, but the unfortunate reality of life is that sometimes you've got to outsource to keep the ball rolling. I'll be able to make cool things that I think of once the machine is built, and that's the real goal here, right?

This means I can start actually thinking and working on enclosure design a little more seriously now. I know I want sliding doors with impact/scratch resistant windows which I have a source for locally. I also think I want at least one, if not both side windows on the enclosure to have the ability to open for long work pieces. I'll likely just run some diffused LED strips inside for lighting. I'm not sure if I'm going to encapsulate the touch screen control into the enclosure as a flush mount or if I'll run a mounting arm. Maybe a mixture of both...

Stainless, or painted for my enclosure finish.....hmmmmm? What is interested to note is that when I started this thought process my intention was to go pretty mild; now in my mind I'm considering different paint schemes for my enclosure (a two tone design with a diagonal split perhaps). LOL.

I also spoke with Tom over at Teknic who not only provided me with motor recommendations based off of my predicted use case but also gave me some new videos to watch that will get me up to speed on what I should know moving forward. Good dude!

Going to start work on the electronics list/package soon. I'm sure I'll be leaning heavily on the internet again.


----------



## Jamie_Murray (May 11, 2022)

I realized that I "needed" to remodel the office and build a decent PC to serve as the heart of development/productivity/leisure. Then finals came and I dropped everything to hold on to the A's. Taking the summer off to do some projects as well as an internship so this is back on the front burner now.

After speaking with some friends who are smarter than I; I've decided to scrap the column bracing design due to differential material growth characteristics. Not sure if I'm going to weld or bolt a frame together for it yet. Trying to keep mistakes to a minimum, but paralysis by analysis is also a bad thing...

Here's the PC build


----------



## Just for fun (May 11, 2022)

That looks like quite the command center.   With the full moon to boot!


----------



## 7milesup (May 11, 2022)

Yeah, that is quite the setup!!  Surround sound and nearly surround vision!  Love it.


----------



## macardoso (May 11, 2022)

Hi Jamie,

I've done a G0704 conversion to AC servo (Allen Bradley), Mach 4, Smoothstepper and have offered engineering designs services to people looking to use Acorn + Clearpath on CNC routers, so I'm intimately familiar with them.

Happy to answer specific technical questions if you run into anything.

General thoughts:

Mach 4 is likely the best system for low cost + highly customizable IMO. I built a custom drive interface through LUA and streaming serial to display drive diagnostics on the screen.
Ethernet Smoothstepper is the best Mach 4 motion controller IMO. Lots are unstable or have poor IO performance
Mach 4 is probably 98% stable. Some things, usually bleeding edge features, break if you test them to their limits. Not going to bother a casual user. 
Mach 4 is constantly being worked on - big plus.
LUA scripting, painful learning curve but very capable. You're able to do almost anything other than edit the core motion controller. 
Acorn is pretty easy to setup and seems to work well. My customer seems happy with his choice.
Acorn is all supplied by one company. Concise and easy to follow documentation and directions. Good technical support.
Acorn control board is sensitive to electrical noise. This could be an issue if you want to put a VFD in the box with it. Hard to troubleshoot
You're stuck with Centroid's ecosystem if you go Acorn. Adding IO is quite expensive. $400 per 16 inputs and 16 outputs.
There is some limited scripting available with the Acorn.
I used to preach DMM servos. I've had mixed feelings lately. They have some of the lowest cost systems that aren't import junk, but they still lack some features I consider to be important to a hobby guy (good GUI setup utility, autotuning , etc.)
AutomationDirect has some reasonably priced AC servo packages now as well with A+ customer support.
Stay away from eBay/China AC servos. Horrible documentation. Not worth it for any cost savings.
Clearpath is more expensive than some lower cost servos thanks to the "on motor" servo drive. To me, this isn't really a huge benefit, but their product seams to work very well and is easy to set up.


----------



## Jamie_Murray (May 11, 2022)

macardoso said:


> Hi Jamie,
> 
> I've done a G0704 conversion to AC servo (Allen Bradley), Mach 4, Smoothstepper and have offered engineering designs services to people looking to use Acorn + Clearpath on CNC routers, so I'm intimately familiar with them.
> 
> ...



Macardoso, 

Thank you so much for the information and your offer for assistance. I really appreciate it. 

I have been considering going Acorn thanks to James's video on YouTube (Clough42) which listed a pretty detailed electronics build along with power domain considerations to keep noise low. Link below. I've also watched some of Marty's videos, but still have a ton to learn.




 
While cost is always a factor, what I am most concerned with is ease of installation and reliability. I am very ignorant when it comes to VFD, so my plan was to simply get the mill up and running with the stock PM-30 3000RPM spindle motor, then use that motivation along with the frustration of slow detailed work with small cutters to begin the VFD portion of the build. I'm trying to consider as much as possible in the beginning while approaching the build in a tiered approach. I would most certainly mount the VFD in a separate enclosure on the opposite side of the mill. 

I don't think I need additional IO? Flood coolant, power draw bar, E-stop, possibly an ATC setup at some point(probably an indexed carousel) and three motors is all I can think of. Is there any unknown unknown here? 

Tom over at Teknic was very responsive to my emails and answered any questions I had. That, along with a three year warranty is hard to beat I would think?

Thank you for the recommendation, I will definitely check out AutomationDirect when the time comes for the VFD "phase" of the build. (see what I did there?)


----------



## Jamie_Murray (May 11, 2022)

Also, thanks for the comments all. I took a quick video of the office since there seems to be some interest here.


----------



## ptrotter (May 11, 2022)

On my PM-940V I used the Arizona CNC conversion kit, Acorn and Clearpath and I am very happy with it.


----------



## Jamie_Murray (May 12, 2022)

ptrotter said:


> On my PM-940V I used the Arizona CNC conversion kit, Acorn and Clearpath and I am very happy with it.


Thanks for the feedback. Seems like everyone is happy with it. I placed the order for the ballscrews from ArizonaCNC. Just going to do a little at a time!


----------



## koenbro (May 12, 2022)

Acorn + ClearPath here. Ask me anything. Also have a Mach4 + stepper setup for a plasma table (Avid Pro). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Jamie_Murray (May 14, 2022)

koenbro said:


> Acorn + ClearPath here. Ask me anything. Also have a Mach4 + stepper setup for a plasma table (Avid Pro).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Thank you! I'm spending a few hours going through Marty's videos as well as others and building out my parts list. I'll post it before I start buying most things.


----------



## Jamie_Murray (May 24, 2022)

Does anyone have a spindle recommendation for the PM-30MV? 

Given the flex of the machine, I am considering going with the CNCDepot FM-30F with a Hitachi WJ200VFD; but I'm terribly ignorant in this regard. My thoughts are that a spindle with ATC built in would save me from having to use a power draw bar. Having a labyrinth seal with dry air solves both the issue of cooling as well as contamination ingress. 

I don't mind spending the money....I just want to understand my options.


----------



## macardoso (May 24, 2022)

Jamie_Murray said:


> Does anyone have a spindle recommendation for the PM-30MV?
> 
> Given the flex of the machine, I am considering going with the CNCDepot FM-30F with a Hitachi WJ200VFD; but I'm terribly ignorant in this regard. My thoughts are that a spindle with ATC built in would save me from having to use a power draw bar. Having a labyrinth seal with dry air solves both the issue of cooling as well as contamination ingress.
> 
> I don't mind spending the money....I just want to understand my options.











						Design Discussion: High Performance CNC Spindle
					

I have been doing research on building a high performance spindle for a medium to large size benchtop CNC mill for a few months. I recently found out that @shooter123456 was also working on similar goals and I wanted to create this post to collect information and share ideas. I'm sure he and I...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




I’m on vacation right now. Happy to share more thoughts later on, but this might get you started.


----------



## Jamie_Murray (May 24, 2022)

macardoso said:


> Design Discussion: High Performance CNC Spindle
> 
> 
> I have been doing research on building a high performance spindle for a medium to large size benchtop CNC mill for a few months. I recently found out that @shooter123456 was also working on similar goals and I wanted to create this post to collect information and share ideas. I'm sure he and I...
> ...


Thank you so much mcardoso! I'll be in Michigan on Jun 15th to 18th for Formula SAE....I owe you a beer!


----------



## Livnpaintball (May 25, 2022)

I’m running Acorn with Stepperonline hybrids on my PM30 and I’m happy as a clam. But I’m a noob to.


----------



## Jamie_Murray (Jul 2, 2022)

So I bought a 3D Printer for CF-Nylon and had to focus on Formula SAE for a bit, then started a new internship.....but I'm back on the wagon!

My ballscrews/mount kit came in from ArizonaCNC and looks good aside from some minor dings in shipping (Thanks Dave!). 

Time to get all the electronics ordered and figure out the stand/enclosure solution. As much as I'd like to build it on my own, I'm thinking of either having it sub'd out or just buying a solution that's ready to go. Thoughts anyone?


----------



## Jamie_Murray (Jul 2, 2022)

Oh; here's some photos for anyone that may be interested. First is the wheel/shifter that was printed...second is an example of competition...third is the ballscrew kit from Dave!

Competition was pretty tough in Michigan! I've gotta get this thing up and running during the summer before classes start back!

And a video of the tilt test. Pretty cool towards the end with the CG test.


----------



## Livnpaintball (Jul 2, 2022)

I used a Tab&Slot welding table for my stand, works great. If you have time and feel like it granite epoxy your column and base to make it more rigid.

3d printers are handy to have, I’ve been printing half of my parts before I cut them to make sure they work for the intended purpose.


----------



## Jamie_Murray (Jul 22, 2022)

I've gotten all of the big ticket items in now. Ballscrews, ClearPath servos, IPC5, Acorn, Ether1616, MPG, touch probe, conductive tool height setter, C86ACCP, Beelink computer, touch screen monitor, 24X24X8 electronics enclosure and inductive proximity sensors for home/limit switches. 

Now it's just a matter of slowly setting it all up and bench testing while I order the DIN rails, solenoids and other associated electronics to complete the cabinet. 

I also designed a new enclosure; then went to a riding acquaintance's shop who showed me some of the wonders of a plasma table and sheetmetal in Solidworks....so I get to do it again. Third time's the charm....right? At least on the next one after this model I'll have a more mature design for the polycarbonate windows, sliding doors, and electronics attached via rivnuts to the back and rivnuts for a VESA articulating arm on the front which will hold my touchscreen with the minicomputer hidden behind it.


----------



## Just for fun (Jul 23, 2022)

Jamie_Murray said:


> Oh; here's some photos for anyone that may be interested. First is the wheel/shifter that was printed...second is an example of competition...third is the ballscrew kit from Dave!
> 
> Competition was pretty tough in Michigan! I've gotta get this thing up and running during the summer before classes start back!
> 
> And a video of the tilt test. Pretty cool towards the end with the CG test.



Those are pretty cool race cars.  What class of cars are they?  What engine do they use?  They look small like a go cart but supper high tech.


----------



## WobblyHand (Jul 23, 2022)

Full rules at:  https://www.fsaeonline.com/cdsweb/gen/DocumentResources.aspx  You can download a pdf of the 2022 rules.
Formula SAE was, and probably still is, the gateway into an automotive career.  Tons of high tech and exotic stuff allowed.  Wish it was around when I was in college, but it was after my time.


----------



## Just for fun (Jul 23, 2022)

Thanks man,  that's really cool.  I just watched a YouTube on Formula SAE.


----------



## hman (Jul 23, 2022)

Jamie_Murray said:


> Hello all. First and foremost thank you to the admins and contributors for creating this depository of information. I've seen the other threads on this but  I'm looking for the most up to date information as it seems like there have been a couple of disruptive technologies implemented since my last foray with the G0704. I've spent a decade looking into subtractive and reading forums just like this one. For every one person making a post like this, there are likely hundreds who have the same question. The days of paralysis by analysis are over for me however and I'm ready to make the leap!
> 
> My name is Jamie and I am looking into building a CNC machine. I purchased a G0704 in 2014 with the intention of converting it to CNC, but then joined the military shortly thereafter and made the decision to sell it with the plan of coming back to it once I get out. Fast forward to today and I am ready to make the leap.
> 
> ...




Rick Sparber, a forum member, has just published an article about a high precision, low cost probe in the latest (Summer '22) issue of Digital Machinist.  The heart of Rick's device is a $5 Harbor Freight multimeter.

In addition, he's written up another electronic edge finder (EEF), which can be wired to a Centroid Acorn CNC controller for X,Y,Z touch-off:


			https://rick.sparber.org/CNCcompatibleAnalogEEF.pdf
		


I myself am just about to start fitting out a Taig 2019 mini-mill for CNC, and plan to include Rick's EEF.


----------



## hman (Jul 23, 2022)

Livnpaintball said:


> 3d printers are handy to have, I’ve been printing half of my parts before I cut them to make sure they work for the intended purpose.


THat's a fantastic use for a 3D printer!


----------



## Jamie_Murray (Jul 24, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Full rules at:  https://www.fsaeonline.com/cdsweb/gen/DocumentResources.aspx  You can download a pdf of the 2022 rules.
> Formula SAE was, and probably still is, the gateway into an automotive career.  Tons of high tech and exotic stuff allowed.  Wish it was around when I was in college, but it was after my time.


Beat me to it! This summer was my first experience and I was impressed with both the level of competition and scrutiny during tech. It certainly beats the motorcycle road racing tech that I am familiar with!


----------



## Jamie_Murray (Jul 24, 2022)

hman said:


> Rick Sparber, a forum member, has just published an article about a high precision, low cost probe in the latest (Summer '22) issue of Digital Machinist.  The heart of Rick's device is a $5 Harbor Freight multimeter.
> 
> In addition, he's written up another electronic edge finder (EEF), which can be wired to a Centroid Acorn CNC controller for X,Y,Z touch-off:
> 
> ...



Very interesting. If I had more time then I would probably explore that path to save a few bones. Electronics are not where my interests lie though so I only go down that hole when forced....


----------



## Jamie_Murray (Jul 24, 2022)

Livnpaintball said:


> I used a Tab&Slot welding table for my stand, works great. If you have time and feel like it granite epoxy your column and base to make it more rigid.
> 
> 3d printers are handy to have, I’ve been printing half of my parts before I cut them to make sure they work for the intended purpose.



I have been surprised at the amount of use that I've gotten out of the 3d printer so far. I just printed this but the layers made the ID of the cone just a bit too small so I'm reprinting with a +5% scale. CAT40 holders for the guy who's going to plasma the sheetmetal for the enclosure. Lip is for snapping into the base he's making for the side of his mill.

Doing a polypropylene tank for methanol injection on an RX7 next....hopefully after I get the motors bench tested and machine design finalized.


----------

