# I'm new and need advice.  Look at my prints and suggest some machines please!



## moonbogg (Mar 31, 2019)

Hi,

I'm a draftsman and I have some drawings I made for my hobby.  I was trying to get quotes to have the parts machined from people I know who own shops, but they don't even have the time to quote my dinky little parts.  I have the material here already.  My design is nearly 100%.  All I need is to buy the machines to make my parts myself because I have decided, that for me, it simply isn't practical to rely on others to make my little hobby stuff anymore.  It worked once in the past for a similar project, but I need to be independent now.  
Even though I've designed parts for about 17 years now for others to machine, when it comes to buying the machines to make them myself I am feeling surprisingly lost and overwhelmed.  I thought the best thing to do was include images of my drawings so you can suggest what lathe capacity to get and a mill to buy.  I am looking to spend as much as $4,000 for both of these machines, but I'd like to spend less if I can get away with it.  I won't be making parts often.  The machines will see some very infrequent and light use (at least that's what I suspect for now).
I have 6" round stock (short pieces 3 1/4 and 1 3/4" long) that I need to turn down to make the front and rear cap parts.  I figured I'd turn them down to the 5.5" dia first, then machine the other diameters and then mill the flats.  I would then do the holes.  I suppose I could mill the flats first and chuck it up square in the lathe and maybe get away with a lathe that has a smaller chuck, but I'm afraid that could be cutting it too close.  I'd be stuck at the absolute minimum of my lathe capacity needs, right?
I will be installing the machines in my garage.  I have normal house electricity and I am a complete electrical noob, so I don't know what my amp or voltage capacity is.  Whatever is the normal, standard weak sauce electricity is what I have, I'm sure.
I was thinking a Smithy 3 in 1, but those are almost $5,000 just for the machine and I'm not even sure I'd be happy having to break setups every single time I want to switch from lathe to mill etc.  I think I'd be annoyed by that.  I can see myself working on brackets for my project and getting all into it, and then deciding I'd like to take a break and turn some parts to do some experimenting on, but won't be able to.  I'm leaning more toward a Grizzly lathe and mill, but I don't know what size lathe to get (chuck diameter that it comes with) for my parts.  I assume a 3 jaw 6" chuck is what I need to machine 6" diameter stock, but what if I want to make something a bit larger at 6 1/2 or 7"?  I wouldn't ever go larger than 7" I'm fairly certain, and I'd be happy enough if the largest I could work with was 6" diameter.
Sorry for the long post.  See drawings below.  Also, I think I'd need a boring bar for the piston housing.  Is it reasonable to expect that I could machine that with a little boring bar?  All parts are 6061-T6.  I have a small 17-4 stainless part to make, but it's only 7/8" dia by about 3" long, so no big deal there.
For the 3 1/2" SCH 40 part, would I need a steady rest to clean up the OD?  The OD doesn't have to be clean, but I don't think it would turn true since that's going to be from SCH40 pipe, so I think I need to clean the OD first and then turn the small lengths in the ID so the parts will fit cleanly inside.  Sound right?  I always take the machining for granted but now I have to do it myself, lol.  I also could make the piston housing from a thick walled pipe or tube.  It doesn't have to be from solid stock as noted.
All of my projects will be of a similar nature, perhaps just the next size up for the pipe, so 4" SCH40.  This would drive all the diameters about 1/2" larger and that would represent my maximum needed capacity in terms of diameter.


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## benmychree (Mar 31, 2019)

Don't even think 3 in one.  Your spending proposal does not reach the requirement for equipment to achieve the result you want in machining the parts you are showing.  I advise that you avoid using schedule 40 pipe for anything but a pipeline or structural use, it is not at all nice to machine or achieve fine finishes.  I'd be looking for a 12" or 14" X 40" lathe and a heavy bench top mill or Bridgeport mill.


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## moonbogg (Mar 31, 2019)

A Bridgeport mill?  You mean the massive, full sized mills that you see in machine shops everywhere?  Also, does it need to be "heavy"?  When I see heavy, I think expensive.  I just need to mill the aluminum flat.  I don't need to hog anything out and I have all the time in the world to do it.


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## Moderatemixed (Mar 31, 2019)

Hi Moonbogg.

I’ve read your post several times. I’m brand new at this but let’s just lay things down and look at this realistically. If you’ve never machined before don’t expect to be able to turn out the parts that you have drawn immediately. The machinists and millwrights out there have spent years perfecting their craft, and to suggest that you just have to buy machines and “Shazam Presto” you’ll be making accurate parts is unfortunate at best. The budget that you are proposing is not out of line if you are going to buy small, older machines and take the time to repair and tune them into shape, a process that has taken me 5 years. But.... you should double your budget if you want a DRO, some quality tooling and the metrology equipment to layout and cut the stock. 

While I stop short of saying that what you are proposing is impossible, you might do better to find the “mom and pop” machine shop in your area, county, state, province, district, municipality, or community and hire them to make your parts. They can use the business and you might just save yourself a tone of heartache.

If you are interested in proceeding however, listen to the guys on these forums. They have all “seen it and done it” and you will learn from them. The guidance that they give is valid and well founded. 

Good luck, I’m guessing that you are going to need it. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Aaron_W (Mar 31, 2019)

As a hobbyist I have the similar reaction when I hear Bridgeport. That is a big piece of machinery, but I've learned that in the working machinist's world, a Bridgeport is a small mill.

I'm a pretty new to this stuff myself, so I'm not entirely sure what is needed to make the parts you have illustrated. There are members here like John (above) who have been machining forever and are much better able to help you there.

If you want to turn something of 6" diameter, you might just barely have room on a 10" lathe, but would be really pushing your limits. When you see 10x22, or 12x36 those are theoretical maximum sizes if you stuck the piece to be machined directly to the spindle. The practical working diameter is really about 1/2 that size. 

The same goes for length, 22" on a 10x22 lathe seems pretty generous, but that distance is from the spindle nose to the tip of the tail stock. When you add a chuck, you are going to lose 3-5", if you want to drill something out, so add a drill chuck and bit into the tail stock, there goes another 4-6". So on a fairly simple drilling operation you very easily lose about 1/2 your available working length.  

I agree with John, I don't think you want to look at a lathe smaller than 12", although since your parts aren't long you might be happy with one of the shorter bed lengths, rather than the standard 36". There are some shorter 12x24 and 12x28 lathes and I think Atlas even made a 12x18.

If you look Mills find the X,Y,Z travel and that will give you some idea of the size box you have to work with. I would think you could get away with one of the medium size bench mills, particularly since you are working with aluminum, Something like a Precision Matthews PM-25 or Grizzly GO761. Of course at $2000+ for these you are getting into the price range of a larger used mill like a Millrite or various Bridgeport clones which will be more capable with more room for growth.

Electricity is going to be another problem. Most of the machines suitable for your project are going to need 220v power. That isn't a huge issue 220 is available in most every home often being used for electric stoves and electric clothes dryers, but you will probably need to hire an electrician to install a couple of 220v outlets in your garage.      


and last is tooling...  Tooling is the thing that gets all of us when we are new. Micrometers, dial indicators, calipers, end mills, lathe bits, boring bars, chucks, collets etc add up quickly and even being frugal can easily add up to 1/2 the cost of the machine or more.


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## benmychree (Mar 31, 2019)

moonbogg said:


> A Bridgeport mill?  You mean the massive, full sized mills that you see in machine shops everywhere?  Also, does it need to be "heavy"?  When I see heavy, I think expensive.  I just need to mill the aluminum flat.  I don't need to hog anything out and I have all the time in the world to do it.


Yes, but a smaller mill would probably supply your needs --- In the larger scheme of things, a Bridgeport mill is not considered to be BIG in any industrial setting, they are the LCD of industrial milling machines.


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## moonbogg (Mar 31, 2019)

Thanks for the replies.  I have some machining experience.  I've had a couple manual machining classes and a CNC class and I cut chips in each of the classes.  I've been around machines for 17 years, just never had to buy one.  Accuracy isn't a huge concern and I am confident that I can make these parts. I have confidence in myself and enough experience to know that with some practice, I can become functional in a short time.  Hiring people to do my hobbies is never going to happen again, unless I decide to send the parts for anodize.  I don't feel like messing with acids in the garage, lol.

This is just my hobby.  The drawings specify the tolerances because someone else was going to be making these parts and they needed to be specified.  I can just machine them to fit and get it close enough.  I have a couple calipers and a mic.  No need for digital displays.

I think the 12" lathe suggestion is just about perfect.  I'm less sure about the mill.  
Can we talk brands?  Bolton and Grizzly are priced well.  If I have to spend a little more then I'll do it.  I know tooling and a table for the lathe and various unexpected stuff is going to add up.  The one thing I was sure about was NOT spending 5 grand on a Smithy 3 in 1.  Good point on the electrical, although most of these machines come in 110v variety.  Would that not work for some reason?  Too many amps or something?


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## mksj (Mar 31, 2019)

I would only look at machines from Grizzly or Precision Mathews, I would avoid most of the other vendors unless you want to waste your money. Features, Quality Control and Service are pretty bad with most other vendors. On paper they might look OK, but get them to your house and you might find a whole mess of issues or lack of features, with no recourse. I know a few people who purchased Boultons and that was the case. Looking at the size and type of work, major limitation is the lathe, I would want a 11", preferable 12" as a minimum. The two below are a D1-4 chuck mount which is very standard and both lathes are large bore (1.5") spindles that are uncommon in lathes of this size. It makes a significant difference. Unfortunately due to the import tariffs, prices have gone up significantly for Chinese machinery.
Sort list:
PM-1127VF-LB Lathe https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1127vf-lb/
PM-1228VF-LB Lathe https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1228vf-lb/

PM-727V Mill https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-727v/

A lot of people have purchased the above machines, you can read about them in the forum or watch videos online. You really haven't set up a budget for tooling, so you need to factor that in. 

The tolerance you have specified are very tight, not sure how you can achieve the tolerances on the piston housing and boring that deep with such a thin wall. So maybe some more thought on specific materials and if it is doable as outlined. Layout and drilling holes on the mill, you might consider a cheap DRO that will do bolt circles, maybe other functions. You can do it all manually and count dials but time consuming and easy to make mistakes.  I would probably mill the flats first and then hold it with a 4J independent chuck, then turn the other round dimensions, you will need to grind tooling or get special tooling for some of the grooves.  The 4J independent does come with the PM-1127VF-LB, but is extra on the PM-1228VF-LB.

Looked at the Grizzly lathes, I can't find anything in the price range that will have the capacity you probably need at your price range, they have the G4002 which would be the smallest I would consider.  Mill wise you might look at the Grizzly G0795Z, but more expensive then the PM-727V. Also note that the G0795Z is 220V. The PM-1127VF, PM-1228VF-LB and PM-727V are 120V. Not a lot of choices these days. Buy once, cry once, so if it comes down to a small price difference get the better/bigger machine.


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## Nogoingback (Mar 31, 2019)

How many parts do you need to have made?  There are machine shops that will do small runs but you might have to
look a bit harder.  Remember, the cost of the machines is only the beginning: tooling (especially for the mill) will add
considerable cost.  If your goal is just to get the parts made and the quantity is small, it doesn't make sense to buy
machines.  If you really want to get involved in machining as a hobby, that's a different matter.

If you want the name of a machine shop that will make parts in small quantities, PM me.  There's one in Portland
that does that.  My son used to work there.

You can also put stuff like that out for bid on https://www.emachineshop.com


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## moonbogg (Mar 31, 2019)

mksj said:


> I would only look at machines from Grizzly or Precision Mathews, I would avoid most of the other vendors unless you want to waste your money. Features, Quality Control and Service are pretty bad with most other vendors. On paper they might look OK, but get them to your house and you might find a whole mess of issues or lack of features, with no recourse. I know a few people who purchased Boultons and that was the case. Looking at the size and type of work, major limitation is the lathe, I would want a 11", preferable 12" as a minimum. The two below are a D1-4 chuck mount which is very standard and both lathes are large bore (1.5") spindles that are uncommon in lathes of this size. It makes a significant difference. Unfortunately due to the import tariffs, prices have gone up significantly for Chinese machinery.
> Sort list:
> PM-1127VF-LB Lathe https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1127vf-lb/
> PM-1228VF-LB Lathe https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1228vf-lb/
> ...



Good stuff here, thanks.  I am looking at the Grizzly G0704.  It's priced very nicely and comes with a stand.  It looks big enough and quite frankly, overkill for what I need.  I just need to machine some little flats on small aluminum and stainless pieces.  I will also be milling some brackets instead of sending them to waterjet as originally planned.  Nothing thicker than 1" 6061-T6.  No one has mentioned that Grizzly.  Is there something wrong with that mill?
For bolt circles, I can just make a hole table if I need to drill that many holes, which I won't ever need really.  I can just dimension the drawing from zero to the hole to make it easy for me.  
Precision matthews is going to be too expensive.  It will have to be Grizzly and they are looking more and more like the one to go with for me considering what you mentioned about other brands having poor customer service, etc.
I won't be making a lot of parts at all.  Just a little hobby project once in a while.  I want independence, so sending parts out is a no go for me.  I want to experiment and work on prototypes and just have fun.  I can't do that if I have to constantly send little parts out to shops.  Honestly, by the time I pay someone to machine all my stuff, including water jet, all the milling work, all the lathe work, the drilling and tapping etc, I could almost buy a machine or two.  It's impractical as a hobbyist like me to use outside shops.
So, regarding turning 6" dia stock on a 6" chuck, you just reverse the jaws, right?  What about cleaning up sections of a long piece of 2 1/2" pipe in a 12" lathe; could I do something like that with a steady rest?  Some of the grizzly's come with a steady rest.

Thanks again!


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## Aaron_W (Mar 31, 2019)

If the flange and drill holes don't have to be really precise it looks to me like most like most of your project could be done on a lathe with a 4 jaw chuck and a drill press or even a hand drill. 

Cheaper than a mill, if your milling needs are secondary you might consider a large mill drill like a Rong Fu RF-31 and save most of your budget for a lathe. Several here have them and they seem quite capable of doing decent milling, it just takes more care. You see them pop up used far more often and cheaper than other mills of this general size because the round column is considered less desirable.


The originals are made by Rong Fu but there are lots of clones like this one from Grizzly.

https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-Mill-Drill-with-Stand-29-x-8-Table/G0705 


Here is a used Jet version in Oxnard for $1100. Since they are keeping the vise and tooling you might be able to talk them down to $800-900, maybe less if they want it gone. Jet is a quality brand.

https://ventura.craigslist.org/tls/d/thousand-oaks-jet-mill/6849861221.html


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## GL (Mar 31, 2019)

Going back to what benmychree said about material, and an assumption this is an air cylinder or something similar, you might consider honed cylinder tubing.  Also, with such thin walls, 6 jaw chucks start being a realistic necessity to hold the tolerances you are looking for - as previously stated, tooling is the other half of the expense problem.  Changing to sized material may reduce your tooling costs, if you can work around the design changes to accommodate it.  You are weighing lots of variables that we don't always have to deal with on the design side of the problem - but those on the fab side deal with all the time (and creates tension between the two "factions").  This excercise, even if you punt, will make you a better designer.  Good luck


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## Bob Korves (Mar 31, 2019)

If you are only looking at machines to achieve the current project, I consider that a mistake, unless you do not plan to use them for other shop work after the project we are discussing here.  If you plan to do more machining later, think also about what will best suit your needs and wants longer term.


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## moonbogg (Mar 31, 2019)

GL said:


> Going back to what benmychree said about material, and an assumption this is an air cylinder or something similar, you might consider honed cylinder tubing.  Also, with such thin walls, 6 jaw chucks start being a realistic necessity to hold the tolerances you are looking for - as previously stated, tooling is the other half of the expense problem.  Changing to sized material may reduce your tooling costs, if you can work around the design changes to accommodate it.  You are weighing lots of variables that we don't always have to deal with on the design side of the problem - but those on the fab side deal with all the time (and creates tension between the two "factions").  This excercise, even if you punt, will make you a better designer.  Good luck



I like this.  There will be no punting.  I always supported the guys in the shop with whatever they asked me for, including hole tables or any dimensions they wanted because I always respect the work they do.  I understand the carefree mentality that designers sometimes have; "They will make it work" comes to mind.
Anyway, I see what you are saying about that thin wall.  How can you even grab it without bending it?  I can make that part a completely different way.  I can buy two pieces of tubing close to finished size, clean up the OD of the smaller one to fit in the larger tube, cut it to length and EPOXY that sucker inside the other tube.  It will work.  There is no axial stress on that part.  Just a little pressure from inside and a little more from the outside for about 15ms.  Pretty weak.  JB Weld can do the job for me if necessary.  Only for that part though.  

The machines aren't for just this project.  They are for all of my hobby needs.  Also, once I have the machines it will open the door to more projects and maybe even a little side work doing small little jobs for friends.  Right now there is no door because I don't have the machines yet.  This will change.


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## Jimsehr (Mar 31, 2019)

I wonder how you are going to check the parts. And I wonder if you Are able to cut the o’rings and get a good finish on them how will you be able to check locations on them. And how to check dia of o’rings inside the counter bores. And where are you going to get the tool bits to cut the o’rings. What do you have to check the lengths of parts. And I wonder how much out of round the stock is and how will you get it round? These are skills it took me years to learn.
And I think you need extra stock to practice on.
If I were you I would try to make the end cap first. To see how it comes out.


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## stupoty (Mar 31, 2019)

Aaron_W said:


> If the flange and drill holes don't have to be really precise it looks to me like most like most of your project could be done on a lathe with a 4 jaw chuck and a drill press or even a hand drill.



Thats what I was thinking looking at it also.

The angled edges depending if they are cosmetic or require precision, you could use some sort of belt sander or a file. (or flap wheel on an angle grinder perhaps)


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## MarkM (Apr 1, 2019)

Some thing to think about.  Just because a lathe says it will turn a ten, twelve or whatever size it says it can turn doesn t mean it will do what you want.  The swing is given over the ways so gets drastically reduced over the crosslide.  For example my 14-40 lathe will only turn just under nine inches over the crosslide. Reversing your jaws in the chuck may hold the six inch shaft but will the jaws clear the crosslide and ways?  These questions need to be asked before you purchase a lathe.


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## Dabbler (Apr 1, 2019)

For the mill don't consider one that doesn't have a DRO.  It will reudce mistakes and increase your accuracy without spending the years it takes to be competent on a mill.  Use small cutters such a carbide 2 flute made-for-aluminum milling cutter.  They will be expensive, but worth it.

Expect to waste money on material to rework things until you get them right.  None of this machining stuff is magic or easy.  It takes practice to get accurate work.  No first-timer produces perfect parts out of the gate. It's okay to make mistakes.


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## stupoty (Apr 1, 2019)

moonbogg said:


> The machines aren't for just this project. They are for all of my hobby needs. Also, once I have the machines it will open the door to more projects and maybe even a little side work doing small little jobs for friends.




Thats the spirit, you are now welcomed to the machinery addiction club , can we put a friendly wager on the time it will take before you realise you want (I mean need) a welding rig or perhaps a sheet metal brake ?  

Stu


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## Downunder Bob (Apr 1, 2019)

I always recommend getting the biggest and best you can afford and have room for. You will always find a job bigger than you have envisaged. I had to settle on a 12 x16 because that is all the room I have available, If  I could have got a 12 x 20, but the next size up was 12 x 24, so too big. 

The next decision was quality and price I looked at all the cheap chinese lathes and decided not for me. I have a lifetime of machining experience, and I could tell just by the look and feel of them that I would have been very disappointed if I had bought one. I finally settled on a Taiwanese made lathe very good quality about 25% dearer for the same specs, but I am very confident that it won't let me down.

Yes I had to increase my budget from $4000 to $5000 but in the end I think it was worth it. PM do have some very similar lathes to this that do come from Taiwan. I hear on this forum that they are very good, and so is the after sales service.  As for a mill, again I don't have room, so I do all my milling functions on the lathe.

God luck whichever way you go, and never hesitate to ask on this forum


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## Janderso (Apr 1, 2019)

Great thread.
In my experience, once you buy your full sized machines used, you will spend equal to or more on tooling, electrical requirements and measuring equipment.


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## ThinWoodsman (Apr 1, 2019)

Went through the "what machines should I buy" last year when I upgraded from the benchtop stuff (Taig mill and 7x16 lathe). I won't go into what I purchased, but here are my suggestions based on what I learned:

  1. Buy a used, older lathe. There are a lot available (especially due west of San Berdoo), your money will go a lot farther, the rigidity of the lathe will be greater. Also, lathe tooling (chucks, steadies, faceplates) is expensive, far more so than most mill tooling, and it will usually get thrown in with the purchase of a used lathe. Downside: the equipment may be 3-phase (which requires a few hundred bucks spend on a VFD).

  2. Buy a new mill, the largest benchtop mill you can get away with from someone reputable like PM. This is based mostly on your reaction to the size of the bridgeport: if that is considered huge and unwieldly, then by all means get something like the PM 932.

  3. Do not underestimate the task of moving and installing the machines. If you can find the help, great, but you may need to hire riggers, and that gets expensive. I live on a dirt road so I can't even get a good-sized benchtop mill delivered here (hence the original, UPSable machines), and that greatly influenced how I went about looking for machines. I'm still impressed with how those MA truckers got a long flatbed and 10-ton forklift out to my barn, but that's a story for another day.

I think everything else has been covered by the guys above. Be prepared to spend a couple hundred bucks a month for the rest of your life on toolimony -  gotta keep the machines happy or they get downright vicious.


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## BGHansen (Apr 1, 2019)

Below are some Craig's List offerings for lathes and mills in CA that may work for you.  Like was mentioned above, go for the biggest your space and budget can handle.  

On the plus side for buying used, once a machine has depreciated it should hold its value.  For example, buy a 1954 South Bend Heavy 10 for $2500.  Use it for 5 years and if you didn't beat it up, you should get most if not all of your money back if you decide to sell.

Down side is no warranty and you might have to do some work to get it running.  Part availability can be a concern too.

If you buy new, it'll have that "new tool smell".  No worries about the history of use.  Should have a warranty.  Down side is when/if you sell, you'll likely get around 60% of what you paid, maybe less.

Good luck with the hunt!

Bruce

Metal lathes for $2500 or less
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/d/westminster-lathe-frejoth-metal-engine/6818660200.html 
 Seller below has both a lathe and mill
https://fresno.craigslist.org/tls/d/fresno-metal-lathe-for-sale/6848953683.html 
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant/tls/d/frazier-park-metal-lathe/6851282550.html 
https://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/tls/d/san-marcos-lathe-metal/6852209704.html 
SMOKING DEAL on a Clausing lathe for $300
https://goldcountry.craigslist.org/tls/d/altaville-clausing-metal-lathe/6843362592.html 
https://stockton.craigslist.org/tls/d/lodi-metal-lathe-make-custom-parts/6831341464.html 


Milling machines for under $2500
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant/for/d/palmdale-jet-milling-machine/6838111961.html 
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/bfs/d/oxnard-sale-rong-fu-model-rf-30-mill/6849290479.html 
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/bfs/d/oxnard-acra-model-rf-40-gear-head-mill/6849215029.html 
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/tls/d/ventura-mill-drill-milling-drilling/6854479800.html 
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/hvo/d/west-covina-bridgeport-milling-machine/6853298622.html 
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/bfs/d/oxnard-bridgeport-vertical-mill-milling/6828333011.html 
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/hvo/d/anaheim-grizzly-milling-machine-dro/6832196483.html 
https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/d/hesperia-drilling-milling-machine-extras/6829847325.html 
https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/d/colton-machine/6842613126.html 
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/d/san-juan-capistrano-milling-machine/6823267526.html 
https://chico.craigslist.org/for/d/chico-enco-milling-machine/6850579341.html 
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/d/san-jose-hitorque-little-machine-shop/6838871448.html 
https://reno.craigslist.org/tls/d/fallon-msc-drilling-and-milling-machine/6853329124.html 
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/hvo/d/menlo-park-samson-milling-machine/6846914040.html 
https://redding.craigslist.org/tls/d/redding-grizzly-704-mill/6846386939.html 
https://reno.craigslist.org/hvo/d/minden-milling-machine/6839177226.html


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## Shootymacshootface (Apr 1, 2019)

As BGHanson suggested, I would go with old iron. A largish lathe in good condition is not hard to find. Perhaps a good lathe with a milling attatchment now, and a mill next year?


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## Dabbler (Apr 1, 2019)

I should stress that you shouldn't be afraid to wait for the 'right fit'... With both my lathe and mill, I found far better deals within 6 months of buying a 'great deal', and then the 'perfect machine' came along, and the budget was gone.

-- this is in a place where few machines are available, and even the rotten ones fetch a big $$$$ tag.


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## Aaron_W (Apr 1, 2019)

BGHansen said:


> Below are some Craig's List offerings for lathes and mills in CA that may work for you.  Like was mentioned above, go for the biggest your space and budget can handle.
> 
> On the plus side for buying used, once a machine has depreciated it should hold its value.  For example, buy a 1954 South Bend Heavy 10 for $2500.  Use it for 5 years and if you didn't beat it up, you should get most if not all of your money back if you decide to sell.
> 
> ...



The lathe is quite dirty and the photos are poor, but that is a nice set up with a 12x36 lathe and small knee mill, $3250 for both isn't a bad price if the machines aren't trashed. If they come with tooling even better.


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## stupoty (Apr 1, 2019)

If you get a chance to pick up a working but less than perfect lathe very very cheep , that could be useful to hone your skills on whilst hunting the perfect one down.

Stu


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## Janderso (Apr 1, 2019)

Stu, I agree. I bought a 1941 South Bend 13" for two reasons.
I ran one in High School and it was there. 
I also lost a Bridgeport. I learned quite a bit from those not so tight machines.
I have replaced them with better machines partly because I learned from ownership and knew what to look for.
Now that I have them, I see deals and opportunity all over the place. Funny, that.


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## MarkM (Apr 1, 2019)

There s alot to consider.  Used or new.  I ll throw a machine I don t own but considerd and still may get one at sometime.  Stretch your pennies to maybe five grand and it could work with the type of mill your looking at.  The P.M. 1236.  A decent size that has been around and proven.  Alot of members here have taken them quite far in accuracy and ability amd one worked with it.  Take a look at DarkZero s p.m. 1236.  A beauty!!! and so is the work that comes off it.  Three year warranty and something you could start with and could be satisfied once you have some chips under your feet.  Even a cast stand is an option.  The lathe is good enough that the investmant for the stand says something alone as to what the manufacture thinks of his machine.  Don t count out a round column mill.  At this price range you will have a plus and minus list and what you think is more to give up.  A 2 hp motor and 12 speeds with a good range and quite rigid keeping the head low.  Ya it s a pain if you have to raise the head.  Just think it out and manage your tooling for the operation and it s not as big of a deal as people make out!  For the money and operation at hand they are good value!


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## ThinWoodsman (Apr 1, 2019)

Janderso said:


> Now that I have them, I see deals and opportunity all over the place. Funny, that.



One thing I've noticed is that spring is the month for selling machinery, at least here in the northeast. Everybody is cleaning out their garage or shop and getting rid of the stuff taking up all that space. Once summer hits everyone is on vacation, and come fall people are too busy winterizing.


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## moonbogg (Apr 2, 2019)

Shootymacshootface said:


> As BGHanson suggested, I would go with old iron. A largish lathe in good condition is not hard to find. Perhaps a good lathe with a milling attatchment now, and a mill next year?



May I please hear more about this milling attachment possibility?  The above solution might make perfect sense for me right now.  Perhaps I can afford a decent Precision Matthews lathe, but I can't ALSO spend 2 grand on a mill at the same time.  If I wait a little longer I can get a decent mill later, and in the mean time I can do the simple milling operations for the main end caps on the lathe and just send all my brackets to water jet.


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## ThinWoodsman (Apr 2, 2019)

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/lathe-milling-attachment.75880/


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## Shootymacshootface (Apr 2, 2019)

There you go.
They are best for simple milling operations and are quick to set up, but like everything else with this machining stuff, you are only limited by your imagination.


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## moonbogg (Apr 2, 2019)

Got an offer from a friend who has a shop to trade work for work.  He machines the parts, I make him drawings and whatever else he may need for a few days.  I'll consider that a head start in terms of this particular project, but I'm still getting that machine!


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## stupoty (Apr 2, 2019)

moonbogg said:


> Got an offer from a friend who has a shop to trade work for work.  He machines the parts, I make him drawings and whatever else he may need for a few days.  I'll consider that a head start in terms of this particular project, but I'm still getting that machine!



Very handy, that gives you time to hunt down your first pieces of machinery. 



Stu


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## stupoty (Apr 2, 2019)

In the mean time hears methods for locating holes 






Some vicarious machining and learning things at the  same time   He demos different methods.


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## MarkM (Apr 3, 2019)

Someone posted a used Brigdeport in the general machine forum.  From California as well.  Just noticed thought i d be quick.  Looking how to go about selling.  Maybe it can work for you.


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## ezduzit (Apr 3, 2019)

Avoid new, bare machines with no tooling. Look for quality used machines, in excellent condition, with comprehensive tooling.


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