# Dating vintage Starrett tools



## jamesicus

For several years I have wanted to have a readily           accessible facility that would enable me to date my vintage STARRETT tools. I hope to           accomplish that goal via this project which would           benefit from visitor input and would be universally           accessible.

I earnestly request all input from fellow Starrett users/collectors. I wil credit all participants and publish results and updates periodically on this Forum.

The data I have recorded to date is quite sparse and undoubtedly will benefit from corrections and additional information. A problem for me is my failing memory - fortunately I own a good selection of Starrett catalogs for the years 1900-1980 - invaluable references indeed.

Here is the project page: http://jp29.org/starrett.htm 

I would greatly appreciate any input from members of this Forum.

James


----------



## Charley Davidson

I love my Starrett tools but not sure if I want to actually date them :roflmao::lmao::roflmao::lmao:

All kidding aside I like your project. I will post a link to a book store that has a couple of old Starrett catalogs tomorrow.


----------



## jamesicus

Charley Davidson said:


> I love my Starrett tools but not sure if I want to actually date them :roflmao::lmao::roflmao::lmao:
> 
> All kidding aside I like your project. I will post a link to a book store that has a couple of old Starrett catalogs tomorrow.


Well I was prepared for that whimsical reply, Charley ):tiphat: And seriously, I always appreciate leads to vintage tool catalogs.

James


----------



## raross61

jamesicus said:


> For several years I have wanted to have a readily accessible facility that would enable me to date my vintage STARRETT tools. I hope to accomplish that goal via this project which would benefit from visitor input and would be universally accessible.
> 
> I earnestly request all input from fellow Starrett users/collectors. I wil credit all participants and publish results and updates periodically on this Forum.
> 
> The data I have recorded to date is quite sparse and undoubtedly will benefit from corrections and additional information. A problem for me is my failing memory - fortunately I own a good selection of Starrett catalogs for the years 1900-1980 - invaluable references indeed.
> 
> Here is the project page: http://jp29.org/starrett.htm
> 
> I would greatly appreciate any input from members of this Forum.
> 
> James



Here are a couple of pictures, I have a couple of mic's, I do not think they are the satin chrome and they are blue frames? Just wondering in you had any idea how old they might be?


----------



## jamesicus

raross61 said:


> Here are a couple of pictures, I have a couple of mic's, I do not think they are the satin chrome and they are blue frames? Just wondering in you had any idea how old they might be?


Good morning raross61. So far I have only found descriptions for black enamel frames in my catalogs. A pic of the label end of the factory box would be an enormous help in identifying these mics - I hope you can post one. 

Added: Is there a possibility that the box is not the one the mic originally came in? That happens quite often. The reason I pose that question is that the box is of some age (1920s/1930s and maybe immediate post WWII ?) - I seem to remember some references (I don't recall where or of what substance) to blue enamel frame Starrett mics, but of more recent manufacture. My research catalogs end at 1979, the date of my last new Starrett tool.

James


----------



## FanMan

Here's an old small Starrett vernier caliper.  Was my Dad's; I believe he bought it when he was in college, 1946-1950 or so, but he might have bought it used, or he might have acquired it earlier while he was serving in the Navy during the war:




The front is a .001" vernier. On the back side it's calibrated in 64ths, no vernier, with marks for inside and outside measurement.

It's sitting in an old eyeglass case that he kept it in, along with a conventional B&S micrometer of similar vintage.


----------



## Charley Davidson

Link to the book store in North Carolina he has at lest 2 old Starrett catalogs
http://www.harryalterbooks.com/


----------



## jamesicus

Charley Davidson said:


> Link to the book store in North Carolina he has at lest 2 old Starrett catalogs
> http://www.harryalterbooks.com/


Thanks for the link Charley - he has the 1938 catalog for sale in VG condition at $20 - that is a fair price pretty much in line with the five or so currently listed on e-bay.  The 1938 Starrett catalog (I own a copy) is the one most commonly encountered and in my opinion is one of the better references (my favorite ones are the 1953 - by far - and the 1927).

Here is the 1938 Starrett catalog as a PDF - courtesy of Rose Antique Tools: http://www.roseantiquetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/1938starrettno.26.pdf

Thanks again, Charley.

James


----------



## Charley Davidson

Make him an offer he can't refuse He doesn't have to pay eBay fees


----------



## jamesicus

FanMan said:


> Here's an old small Starrett vernier caliper.  Was my Dad's; I believe he bought it when he was in college, 1946-1950 or so, but he might have bought it used, or he might have acquired it earlier while he was serving in the Navy during the war:
> 
> View attachment 58553
> 
> 
> The front is a .001" vernier. On the back side it's calibrated in 64ths, no vernier, with marks for inside and outside measurement.
> 
> It's sitting in an old eyeglass case that he kept it in, along with a conventional B&S micrometer of similar vintage.


Hi FanMan. It looks like a No. 123  Pocket Vernier Caliper which was featured in the 1927 catalog but dropped by the time of the 1935 catalog.

Added - scan of 1927 catalog page:


I am sure this tool has great sentimental value for you, FanMan - something to be passed down in your family.​
James


----------



## raross61

Here is the picture of the blue micrometer box, you requested the other day. Sorry it took so long burried at work!

                                        Bob in Oregon

- - - Updated - - -



jamesicus said:


> Good morning raross61. So far I have only found descriptions for black enamel frames in my catalogs. A pic of the label end of the factory box would be an enormous help in identifying these mics - I hope you can post one.
> 
> Added: Is there a possibility that the box is not the one the mic originally came in? That happens quite often. The reason I pose that question is that the box is of some age (1920s/1930s and maybe immediate post WWII ?) - I seem to remember some references (I don't recall where or of what substance) to blue enamel frame Starrett mics, but of more recent manufacture. My research catalogs end at 1979, the date of my last new Starrett tool.
> 
> James



James,

      I believe this is the original box off the 1-2" Mic. the description is the same! No lock, No thimble, so in it's day I would say it was the economy model!

                                                       Bob in Oregon


----------



## Tom Griffin

James,

I may have a few vintage Starrett tools and I know I have a couple of early 1900's catalogs. The web site is a great idea, I wish someone would start one for Lufkin as I have a rather extensive collection of their tools.

Tom


----------



## jamesicus

raross61 said:


> Here is the picture of the blue micrometer box, you requested the other day. Sorry it took so long burried at work! .......... I believe this is the original box off the 1-2" Mic. the description is the same! No lock, No thimble, so in it's day I would say it was the economy model!
> 
> Bob in Oregon


Thank you for the pics Bob. The label confirms it is indeed a No. 436 mic - I hoped there would be a Starrett stamp or writing on the label indicating the blue enamel finish on the frame resulted from a special order (which Starrett advertised was available) - all of my catalogs specify black enamel for all painted mic frames. Of course, a previous owner may have painted the frame, although the quality of the finish looks to be OEM.

You are correct in your assessment that this was an "economy" model - Starrett used such terms as "an ideal tool at moderate cost for all-around shop use" in describing it. It had a long sales life: it wasn't listed in the 1900 catalog, but it was in my 1927 catalog and was still listed in my 1979 catalog.

I think the box dates fom the 1920s/1930s/1940s. The following pics are from my 1927 Starrett catalog:


James​


----------



## mckay3d

jamesicus said:


> For several years I have wanted to have a readily           accessible facility that would enable me to date my vintage STARRETT tools. I hope to           accomplish that goal via this project which would           benefit from visitor input and would be universally           accessible.
> 
> I earnestly request all input from fellow Starrett users/collectors. I wil credit all participants and publish results and updates periodically on this Forum.
> 
> The data I have recorded to date is quite sparse and undoubtedly will benefit from corrections and additional information. A problem for me is my failing memory - fortunately I own a good selection of Starrett catalogs for the years 1900-1980 - invaluable references indeed.
> 
> Here is the project page: http://jp29.org/starrett.htm
> 
> I would greatly appreciate any input from members of this Forum.
> 
> James


 
Dear James,
  Now that I have seen your project page I am anxious to date the Starrett tools I own.  I have a couple of later catalogs (No. 28 and No. 31) and also a large 1938 No. 26 catalog.  (I think it might have been a dealer's counter catalog) 
  Regards... Maurice


----------



## jamesicus

mckay3d said:


> Dear James,
> Now that I have seen your project page I am anxious to date the Starrett tools I own.  I have a couple of later catalogs (No. 28 and No. 31) and also a large 1938 No. 26 catalog.  (I think it might have been a dealer's counter catalog)
> Regards... Maurice


Thank you for the feedback Maurice. That is a wonderful catalog - a real treasure - thanks for posting the pic.

James


----------



## MrTFW

Good evening, James.  Thank you for taking the time to put this together.  I've collected a few older Starrett tools in the past couple of years and found two that didn't have the "Co." at the end of the L.S. Starrett name stamped on them.  The first was a 12" caliper that seems to be able to be used as either an inside or outside caliper (photo 1 and 2).  The second is a level that appears to be an 8", No. 97, based on the pictures in the catalog you linked to(photos 3 and 4).  It's always a pleasure to handle (and use) these old tool that are still so functional.

Keith W


----------



## jamesicus

MrTFW said:


> Good evening, James.  Thank you for taking the time to put this together.  I've collected a few older Starrett tools in the past couple of years and found two that didn't have the "Co." at the end of the L.S. Starrett name stamped on them.  The first was a 12" caliper that seems to be able to be used as either an inside or outside caliper (photo 1 and 2).  The second is a level that appears to be an 8", No. 97, based on the pictures in the catalog you linked to(photos 3 and 4).  It's always a pleasure to handle (and use) these old tool that are still so functional.
> 
> Keith W


Thank you for your great contribution Keith. You have two very early Starrett tools as shown by the stampings. Up to 1895 tools were stamped as follows (and as your tools are) - no "The" preceeding L. S. Starrett and no "Co." following Starrett or "U.S.A" following Mass:



​
In 1895 the stamping was changed to the form we are most familiar with now:



​
Of course, it took some time for the changes to be reflected on goods in process but it seems to be generally accepted that Starrett tools bearing the "old" stamping were produced prior to 1900. The early stamping was often accompanied by the patent date (like your calipers) as follows:



​
Starrett tools bearing the early stamping are considered rare and desirable by Starrett tool collectors.

BTW, Keith, that is a stunning level you have - beautiful!

James


----------



## jamesicus

TomG said:


> James,
> 
> I may have a few vintage Starrett tools and I know I have a couple of early 1900's catalogs. The web site is a great idea, I wish someone would start one for Lufkin as I have a rather extensive collection of their tools.
> 
> Tom


Good morning Tom. I am becoming very nostalgic in my old age - I guess that is inevitable - I too would like to see more online reference resources for great old tools such as Lufkin. Why not compose such a web site yourself, Tom?

James


----------



## Tom Griffin

jamesicus said:


> Good morning Tom. I am becoming very nostalgic in my old age - I guess that is inevitable - I too would like to see more online reference resources for great old tools such as Lufkin. Why not compose such a web site yourself, Tom?
> 
> James



James,

I have thought about building a Lufkin site, but currently it's not high on my list of priorities, but it is on the radar. Right now there aren't enough hours in the day to compete the projects I am working on. :shrugs:

Speaking of nostalgia. I recently tracked down another Lufkin collector who was a well known authority on Lufkin tools and he sent me a CD with a catalog cross reference on it along with some other historic info and as an added bonus, included a couple of bricks from the Saginaw factory. I'm using them as book ends for my Lufkin catalogs. How cool is that? My wife doesn't get it, but I'm sure another too collector would appreciate the significance.

Tom


----------



## jamesicus

TomG said:


> James,
> 
> I have thought about building a Lufkin site, but currently it's not high on my list of priorities, but it is on the radar. Right now there aren't enough hours in the day to compete the projects I am working on. :shrugs: ...........


I am in the same boat, Tom - in addition to running twelve web sites (109 pages) and two message Boards, I am a Calligrapher producing daily commissions, occasional bookbinding and ongoing historical writing. Isn't retirement great? By the time I am ninety I will be pretty much fully occupied!)



> .......... Speaking of nostalgia. I recently tracked down another Lufkin collector who was a well known authority on Lufkin tools and he sent me a CD with a catalog cross reference on it along with some other historic info and as an added bonus, included a couple of bricks from the Saginaw factory. I'm using them as book ends for my Lufkin catalogs. How cool is that? My wife doesn't get it, but I'm sure another too collector would appreciate the significance.


I have heard about that, Tom - great stuff! -and I really do appreciate the significance.

James


----------



## Tom Griffin

jamesicus said:


> I am in the same boat, Tom - in addition to running twelve web sites (109 pages) and two message Boards, I am a Calligrapher producing daily commissions, occasional bookbinding and ongoing historical writing. Isn't retirement great? By the time I am ninety I will be pretty much fully occupied!)
> 
> James



See? Now that's the problem, I still have to work for a living. Maybe after I shake this pesky job, I'll have more time for the important stuff. :thumbsup:

Tom


----------



## jamesicus

TomG said:


> See? Now that's the problem, I still have to work for a living. Maybe after I shake this pesky job, I'll have more time for the important stuff. :thumbsup:
> 
> Tom


Ah yes, Tom, that is indeed an unfortunate problem - I will try to put together a Lufkin page - with your help (just a little) and guidance.

James


----------



## Tom Griffin

jamesicus said:


> Ah yes, Tom, that is indeed an unfortunate problem - I will try to put together a Lufkin page - with your help (just a little) and guidance.
> 
> James



James,

I have a fair amount of Lufkin literature and a lot of NOS Lufkin tools that I've been meaning to photograph...

Tom


----------



## MrTFW

Good morning, James and all --

Here are a couple of pictures of a Starrett double protractor (see page 41 in the catalog link posted earlier).  It was in the same box as the level and has a patent date of Dec. 27, 1904.  The id stamp is just L.S.S. Co. and is one I didn't see on your site, James.  

This is all good fun and thanks again for all the work you've put in on it.

Keith W


----------



## jamesicus

MrTFW said:


> Good morning, James and all --
> 
> Here are a couple of pictures of a Starrett double protractor (see page 41 in the catalog link posted earlier).  It was in the same box as the level and has a patent date of Dec. 27, 1904.  The id stamp is just L.S.S. Co. and is one I didn't see on your site, James.
> 
> This is all good fun and thanks again for all the work you've put in on it.



Hi Keith. That stamping is depicted on my web site (sometimes with or without U.S.A):



​I have not been able to determine when that stamping was introduced - obviously after circa. 1900. It seems to have been employed thereafter whenever there was a space restriction on the tool that would inhibit the full name stamping. In general, it appears that patent dates were used on early tool production. Of course, patent dates are not of great use in dating tools - Patents were only good for four years from date of issuance and were often obtained some time after the tool had been in production - patent dates were sometimes used long after the patent had expired.

James


----------



## jamesicus

It is a slow process. Here is the latest update As usual, corrections and additions are most welcome.

James


----------



## itsme_Bernie

TomG said:


> James,
> 
> I have a fair amount of Lufkin literature and a lot of NOS Lufkin tools that I've been meaning to photograph...
> 
> Tom



Wow!  I'd love to see some Lufkin literature!  
I love Starrett tools, but I also love the Lufkin ones I have been able to find.

Bernie


----------



## Harvey Melvin Richards

TomG said:


> James,
> 
> I have a fair amount of Lufkin literature and a lot of NOS Lufkin tools that I've been meaning to photograph...
> 
> Tom



Since I have a weird obsession with Lufkin tools, I'll be eagerly awaiting these photos.


----------



## Tom Griffin

So it looks like I'm not the only one infatuated with Lufkin tools. I'm also building a website and was considering adding a reference page. The Lufkin information might be a good addition there since James probably doesn't want to "pollute" his with non Starrett stuff. 

The website is coming along well James. Are you planning on digitizing any of the catalogs, or are there copyright issues since the company is still in business?

Tom


----------



## jamesicus

TomG said:


> So it looks like I'm not the only one infatuated with Lufkin tools. I'm also building a website and was considering adding a reference page. The Lufkin information might be a good addition there since James probably doesn't want to "pollute" his with non Starrett stuff ..........


Hi Tom,

I am pleased to hear you are doing that. I love Lufkin tools too - but I won't be including any on my Starrett research web page.



> .......... The website is coming along well James. Are you planning on digitizing any of the catalogs, or are there copyright issues since the company is still in business?
> 
> Tom


I have neither the time or energy to do that, Tom. Copyright is always a thorny issue beyond fair use extracts. I believe copyright ownership expires on anything older than 85 years and it is consigned to the public domain - some material copyright only extends to the 1970s. However, it is always best to check usage out with the copyright owner. I note that Rose Antique Tools (and others) have digitalized numerous manufacturer's entire catalogs - including Lufkin: http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id92.html (which includes a Lufkin milestones compilation) - and offer them as free PDF downloads - and in some cases offer printed copies for sale. 

Added: 1895, 1938 and 1948 Starrett catalog PDF downloads are available at:  http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id97.html (Rose Antique Tools - includes a concise Starrett company history)


----------



## jamesicus

TomG wrote:



> .......... The Lufkin information might be a good addition there since James probably doesn't want to "pollute" his with non Starrett stuff ..........


Maybe the following will assuage your apprehension that I am too "Starrett biased", Tom.))

Lufkin rules: The Lufkin Rule Co. was long renowned for the excellence of the measuring devices they produced. I particularly liked their No. 117x series folding steel rules - especially the 72" (No. 1176) model.



*Lufkin 117x series folding steel rules*​
I also used the comparable Starrett No. 451 folding steel rules, but preferred the Lufkins due to their lighter weight, more positive lock-up and larger, more easily read, numbers.


*Starrett 451 folding steel rules*​


----------



## sambo

:think1:





jamesicus said:


> TomG wrote:
> 
> 
> Maybe the following will assuage your apprehension that I am too "Starrett biased", Tom.))
> 
> Lufkin rules: The Lufkin Rule Co. was long renowned for the excellence of the measuring devices they produced. I particularly liked their No. 117x series folding steel rules - especially the 72" (No. 1176) model.
> 
> 
> 
> *Lufkin 117x series folding steel rules*​
> I also used the comparable Starrett No. 451 folding steel rules, but preferred the Lufkins due to their lighter weight, more positive lock-up and larger, more easily read, numbers.
> 
> 
> *Starrett 451 folding steel rules*​


----------



## sambo

Hi, I'm new to this thread, but have been collecting B&S and Starrett precision tools for decades. To date Starrett micrometers I not only refer to my catalogs but also patent features and markings. Sometime during WW1, patent dates were eliminated from micrometers and the April 1900 ratchet was changed to the B&S type. Knowing this helps break down, within several years, the manufactured date of pre WW1 mikes. After that, many standard models were made unchanged for decades until after WW2 and the satin finished models became standard. I have noticed that the logo "L.S.Starrett - Athol,Mass.USA" was used up to about 1907 on mikes, when the knurling pattern was changed. The logo "The L.S.Starrett Co. Athol, Mass. USA" was used exclusively after that. Patent drawings of 1906 and 1907 show the full knurled thimble. Starrett seems to have had at least four patents for spindle locks on early mikes. Some were never used, but the patent date appears one some models anyway. Probably the only way to know this is to disassemble the mike. You can't have too many around for examination, and even if you have all the catalogs and patent drawings you can't be too positive about any date.


----------



## steamguywilly

over here in Blighty i have a starrett 1"-2" mike  No 213 on the body, 212 on the  extension part and Pat apr 12  1908 on the thimble, it was £1 at a car boot sale. It states The L.S.starrett co ...Athol Mass USA on the body, When is the last date it could have been made ? I have no carbon dating facilities unfortunately !!. On the reverse it says Pat May 4 1897..........Pat Dec 10? 1907. any info will be appreciated.
Regards 
Robert.     P.S How does one attach photos to the posts ??


----------



## sambo

:whiteflag::whiteflag:





steamguywilly said:


> over here in Blighty i have a starrett 1"-2" mike  No 213 on the body, 212 on the  extension part and Pat apr 12  1908 on the thimble, it was £1 at a car boot sale. It states The L.S.starrett co ...Athol Mass USA on the body, When is the last date it could have been made ? I have no carbon dating facilities unfortunately !!. On the reverse it says Pat May 4 1897..........Pat Dec 10? 1907. any info will be appreciated.
> Regards
> Robert.     P.S How does one attach photos to the posts ??


Hi steamguywilly, sounds like you have a really nice Starrett. Dating these early mic.s is not an exact science, but lets see what we can do. In the British catalog no. 18, dated 1909, it lists your no. 213 micrometer as reading in ten thousands, for 1/11/3. The two inch attachment, no 213, as probably ordered with the mic. as an extra option and sold for 8/4. Do you still have the original 1 inch standard? The May 4th 1897 patent (#582,154) was the patent that defined Starrett micrometer design construction from then until the present time. The spindle lock shown in the patent was changed a few times since, that's what the patent date of Dec. 10, 1907 (#873,627) is for. I have many Starretts with these dates stamped on them. I odd thing about these, is that if you disassemble them, you can see that they actually used a later patent of July 20, 1909 (#928,889) on all these. Probably the earlier patent was harder to manufacture. I would say that your micrometer was probably made between 1909 and about 1915. During WWI, the pat. stampings were eliminated as a time saving move and never came back. It would be interesting to know if your instrument was originally purchased in the UK. Starrett was quite prolific there. As far as posting pict.s , someone with a little more expertise may be able to help us both!!


----------



## sambo

:man::whistle:





sambo said:


> :whiteflag::whiteflag:
> Hi steamguywilly, sounds like you have a really nice Starrett. Dating these early mic.s is not an exact science, but lets see what we can do. In the British catalog no. 18, dated 1909, it lists your no. 213 micrometer as reading in ten thousands, for 1/11/3. The two inch attachment, no 213, as probably ordered with the mic. as an extra option and sold for 8/4. Do you still have the original 1 inch standard? The May 4th 1897 patent (#582,154) was the patent that defined Starrett micrometer design construction from then until the present time. The spindle lock shown in the patent was changed a few times since, that's what the patent date of Dec. 10, 1907 (#873,627) is for. I have many Starretts with these dates stamped on them. I odd thing about these, is that if you disassemble them, you can see that they actually used a later patent of July 20, 1909 (#928,889) on all these. Probably the earlier patent was harder to manufacture. I would say that your micrometer was probably made between 1909 and about 1915. During WWI, the pat. stampings were eliminated as a time saving move and never came back. It would be interesting to know if your instrument was originally purchased in the UK. Starrett was quite prolific there. As far as posting pict.s , someone with a little more expertise may be able to help us both!!


P.S. If you look a little closer at the spindle patent you will see it is actually Apr. 17, 1900. This covers the ratchet stop design, that was phased out about 1916 for a simpler design.


----------



## steamguywilly

sambo said:


> :man::whistle:
> P.S. If you look a little closer at the spindle patent you will see it is actually Apr. 17, 1900. This covers the ratchet stop design, that was phased out about 1916 for a simpler design.


Thanks for the info, The item is actually in really poor condition though,....... but still works as clamp [sorry]
I think that is why it was so cheap. there is no box for it, but it still zero's at zero
Robert {willy}


----------



## sambo

:thinking:





steamguywilly said:


> Thanks for the info, The item is actually in really poor condition though,....... but still works as clamp [sorry]
> I think that is why it was so cheap. there is no box for it, but it still zero's at zero
> Robert {willy}


A lot of the old Starrett's I've seen that come out of the UK have seen severe service. I guess two world wars and Nazi bombing took it's toll.


----------



## steamguywilly

Does any body know how to put photos on this site??


----------



## steamguywilly

here are two more items in my starrett stable. One is a combination set that has a repair near the 60-120 degree place, it is a number 7. then a 2"-3" micrometer that is missing its thimble ! 100 years has been rather traumatic for tools over here in blighty......2 world wars etc etc etc. also a picture of the 1"-2" mike that we have already talked about....The photos have not come out very sharp.. The mike is a No226 and the reverse says  Pat 10 march  1891 and May 4 1897.
	

		
			
		

		
	







	

		
			
		

		
	
and May 4 1897.


----------



## sambo

steamguywilly said:


> here are two more items in my starrett stable. One is a combination set that has a repair near the 60-120 degree place, it is a number 7. then a 2"-3" micrometer that is missing its thimble ! 100 years has been rather traumatic for tools over here in blighty......2 world wars etc etc etc. also a picture of the 1"-2" mike that we have already talked about....The photos have not come out very sharp.. The mike is a No226 and the reverse says  Pat 10 march  1891 and May 4 1897.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 76281
> View attachment 76280
> View attachment 76282
> View attachment 76283
> View attachment 76284
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and May 4 1897.



Nice picts. steamguywilly. At least you didn't over clean them, and ruin their patina, like many I've seen. Too many vintage antique tools are wire brushed and shined to ruination, damaging the markings and removing the original edges.


----------



## steamguywilly

I found this tool today at the car boot sale and i could not find it in my brown and sharpe ,or buck and hickman cats. Iknow it is not L.S.S. make but it is american !! Is it something to do with the drill angle?? If anybody knows it would be interesting to find out


----------



## awander

That's a Whitworth-Standard Adjustable-Notch Center Gauge. Looks like it is missing the locking thumbscrew.


----------



## steamguywilly

awander said:


> That's a Whitworth-Standard Adjustable-Notch Center Gauge. Looks like it is missing the locking thumbscrew.
> 
> View attachment 77184


Thanks for that information, i thought it might have been something to do with the Whitworth  thread system. the mark that said 550 had a small zero with a line under it. I thought that might been the catalogue number. Yes there is a small tapped hole for the thumbscrew and it is threaded 8BA, Do you have a date for your illustration? Did L.L.S make a similar item or was it patented. 
Regards
Willy.


----------



## awander

Sorry, I should have mentioned, that was from a 1926 Goodell-Pratt Catalog.

L.L.S? Do you mean L.S.S. or L. S. Starrett?

I haven't seen a Gauge like this in any of the other toolmakers' catalogs.


----------



## steamguywilly

awander said:


> Sorry, I should have mentioned, that was from a 1926 Goodell-Pratt Catalog.
> 
> L.L.S? Do you mean L.S.S. or L. S. Starrett?
> 
> I haven't seen a Gauge like this in any of the other toolmakers' catalogs.


Thanks for the info, Yes i did mean Starrett. Thinking about TPI's were there any rulers made with 14 and other divisions produced. I have never seen any, but if you wanted to draw whit worth threads accurately with paper and pen how would one go about it ? Just wondering
Regards
Willy.


----------



## awander

The table below is from my 1938 Starrett catalog. As you can see, 14 divisions was available in the No. 1 graduation option, but I have never seen one of those.




Just curious-why would you need to draw a 14TPI thread?


----------



## steamguywilly

awander said:


> The table below is from my 1938 Starrett catalog. As you can see, 14 divisions was available in the No. 1 graduation option, but I have never seen one of those.
> 
> View attachment 77229
> 
> 
> Just curious-why would you need to draw a 14TPI thread?


I have never drawn a thread, I always write what the thread is after drawing the symbol for it. I suppose if you were designing some piece of machinery and you wanted to show the actuall thread relationships with other dimensions on the componant, you may wish to draw the thread to see if there was enough space ,room,strength and so on for the item to work satisfactorily. It is interesting to see that these rulers do exist though. Thanks for all this info, and sharing it with everybody.
Regards 
Willy.


----------



## jamesicus

Continuing to update web page - all input welcome.


----------



## steamguywilly

jamesicus said:


> Continuing to update web page - all input welcome.


Over here in blighted sorry blighty i have a lot of english tool catalogues with Starrett entrys that i could post if you want, although a lot of the entries don't have illustrations for some reason ?
regards 
Willy.


----------



## jamesicus

steamguywilly said:


> Over here in blighted sorry blighty i have a lot of english tool catalogues with Starrett entrys that i could post if you want, although a lot of the entries don't have illustrations for some reason ?
> regards
> Willy.


Please post anything you think will be of interest, Willy.

James
Researching Vintage Starrett Tools


----------



## TOOLMASTER

PRETTY BORING DATE..


----------



## Grumpy Gator

I'm trying to date this Starrett Protractor.All the ones I have seen don't have the small locking lever next to the thumb wheel. There is no model number that I can find but it shows this Pat date May 10 1898.*****************************************************
******Thanks***************Gator********************************************


----------



## johnny59

I'm interested in confirming the age of a Starrett "Speed Indicator"; I found some good basic information here: 

http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_690549

Mine appears to be an earlier version, but I'd like to try to narrow it down.  The dial seems to be the key area of differences...


----------



## Silverbullet

Tom Griffin said:


> James,
> 
> I may have a few vintage Starrett tools and I know I have a couple of early 1900's catalogs. The web site is a great idea, I wish someone would start one for Lufkin as I have a rather extensive collection of their tools.
> 
> Tom


I like lufkin too. Have quite a few of them , I look for the ww2 green paint mostly.


----------



## kd4gij

You can go here and create an account, then you can order a free book about the history of starrett, also other free stuff
http://www.starrett.com/catalogs


----------



## waynecuefix

Somewhat off thread but someone here might find this interesting. I had acquired an old Starrett 64A indicator in the wooden box with accessories. It was the second one I bought but it didn't work. I played around with it and found it was fine. Apparently when stored away the previous owner had relaxed the spring. Having no instructions as to its use I wrote this "instruction manual" which basically makes some assumptions but expresses my findings. May be of use to someone.
STARRETT TEST INDICATOR SET 64A USER INSTRUCTIONS (by Wayne L. Hester)
This unit will not work when the spring is in the relaxed state (preferred for long storage).
Locate the wheel under the indicator pointer arm which controls a delicate wire spring. This wheel has a locking screw at its axis which locks and unlocks the wheel. It is stored unlocked so the spring is in the relaxed (neutral) position to improve the longevity of the spring wire during long storage.
To ready the indicator for use make sure the spring adjust wheel screw is loosened enough so the wheel is unlocked.
With indicator arm to one side turn the spring adj. wheel with the thumb to the same direction to apply spring tension against the arm for that direction. With ample tension hold the wheel and tighten the screw to lock the wheel and spring in that direction.
With the spring locked move the indicator arm manually and release it and it should return to the set direction. If not more spring tension is needed so repeat the process with more spring tension.
This allows the indicator to indicate in the direction of the spring setting. For the other direction repeat the process tensioning the spring in the other direction by thumbing the wheel in the other direction. For long storage release the tension by loosening the wheel screw slightly to release the spring to relaxed state.
This instrument is very adequate for indicating center or detecting errors on work chucked in a lathe. While it has been replaced by modern clock style gauges, it did an amazing job for machinists of old and still does if properly used.


----------



## Silverbullet

I h


MrTFW said:


> Good morning, James and all --
> 
> Here are a couple of pictures of a Starrett double protractor (see page 41 in the catalog link posted earlier).  It was in the same box as the level and has a patent date of Dec. 27, 1904.  The id stamp is just L.S.S. Co. and is one I didn't see on your site, James.
> 
> This is all good fun and thanks again for all the work you've put in on it.
> 
> Keith W
> 
> Ive the same double square protractor in my box. Even the blades for it. It's in very good condition , I got it in the 1970s , last one I saw on eBay sold for over $400. By itself. I saw another odd one awhile back ill try to put picture I saved. Nope won't load oh well.


----------



## Bob Korves

waynecuefix said:


> Somewhat off thread but someone here might find this interesting. I had acquired an old Starrett 64A indicator in the wooden box with accessories. It was the second one I bought but it didn't work. I played around with it and found it was fine. Apparently when stored away the previous owner had relaxed the spring. Having no instructions as to its use I wrote this "instruction manual" which basically makes some assumptions but expresses my findings. May be of use to someone.
> STARRETT TEST INDICATOR SET 64A USER INSTRUCTIONS (by Wayne L. Hester)
> This unit will not work when the spring is in the relaxed state (preferred for long storage).
> Locate the wheel under the indicator pointer arm which controls a delicate wire spring. This wheel has a locking screw at its axis which locks and unlocks the wheel. It is stored unlocked so the spring is in the relaxed (neutral) position to improve the longevity of the spring wire during long storage.
> To ready the indicator for use make sure the spring adjust wheel screw is loosened enough so the wheel is unlocked.
> With indicator arm to one side turn the spring adj. wheel with the thumb to the same direction to apply spring tension against the arm for that direction. With ample tension hold the wheel and tighten the screw to lock the wheel and spring in that direction.
> With the spring locked move the indicator arm manually and release it and it should return to the set direction. If not more spring tension is needed so repeat the process with more spring tension.
> This allows the indicator to indicate in the direction of the spring setting. For the other direction repeat the process tensioning the spring in the other direction by thumbing the wheel in the other direction. For long storage release the tension by loosening the wheel screw slightly to release the spring to relaxed state.
> This instrument is very adequate for indicating center or detecting errors on work chucked in a lathe. While it has been replaced by modern clock style gauges, it did an amazing job for machinists of old and still does if properly used.
> 
> View attachment 242643


Thanks, Wayne!  I thought my 64 was broken or the spring was too short, but now it works just fine.


----------



## timpet98

Hi, I have a very old Starrett combination square set and I'm struggling to date it. The strangest thing is that the rule has a square groove not the standard half circle one. The only things that it is missing is the scribe (I'm assuming the one it has is not original) and unfortunately also one of the little latch parts with the unique square nub on the end. I called Starrett and they said they "threw them all out a few years ago because the government kept taxing the inventory". That kind of saddened me because I have no clue how to get one of those. Here are some Pics and if anyone knows how I could find one of those parts that would be amazing, its my grandpa's square and I'm sure he would love to see it back together if possible. Apparently I forgot to photograph the center finder head but that's the part that is missing the latch stem part.


----------



## T Bredehoft

Another late question. I have what I've always considered to be a No. 97-8 level, stamped "L. S. Starrett, Athol, Mass". It does not have the cross level, just the one tube. The catalog I have, No. 28, probably in the 1970's, does not mention levels without the cross level. 
Two Questions, Is this abnormal, or just old, and can I get a No. 98 tube for it?


----------



## DiscoDan

I have a 1957 catalog. Cover says Second Edition Catalog No. 27.


----------

