# Yet Another Project - Techno 9x20 Cnc Lathe



## AR1911 (Nov 7, 2015)

I've stalled on my Emco 5 CNC project, and haven't touched the Lab-Volt unit in months.  So of course I need another CNC retrofit project.  This one has been in the local CL for months. The seller finally got ready to sell, and was wobbly on price, so I went by there today, and it followed me home.  



    So now I'm trying to figure out what I have. It appears to be based on an Asian 9x20 bed, tailstock and cross-slide, but that's about all the parts comonality.
    It has ball-screws powered by servos.  I can't seem to find out anything about those, but here's what's on their label: 
	

		
			
		

		
	



    It has a nice 3/4HP Baldor 3-phase spindle motor, driven by a 110V VFD

As nice as the OE controls looks, I don't think I will be able to use it. All the electronics are on one board, so I can't isolate the drivers, or the spindle control like on some other units. At the PC it uses a proprietary PCI board. The cable looks like SCSI-2. 


So, I expect i'll be looking for an interface to Mach 3, if Mach 3 supports servos. 
Plenty of room in that cabinet!

Oddly enough, most of the information I have found was on the Techo site.
Can't seem to find out much on the servos.

Suggestions welcome.


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## kd4gij (Nov 7, 2015)

Looks like a dice project. You might find some info here.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop-machines/

 Did you download the manual?

http://support.technocnc.com/support/0276_Metal Lathe Setup Instructions.pdf


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## chevydyl (Nov 7, 2015)

what do you mean* if* mach supports servos? I run Allen Bradley servos and Allen Bradley Ultra3000 drives with 2000 line encoders, it runs perfectly in mach3, they are on my Acer 9x42 mill, 100ipm rapids with a 3:1 reduction, that's 3hp and about 12lb-ft of torque at the screws....
sure is a cute little machine tho, I like it


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## AR1911 (Nov 8, 2015)

KD4DIJ - I did check CNCzone.  There was a little info, but not nearly as much as I expected. 
I also downloaded that manual, but it's just a few pages on initial setup on arrival.  It references the G-code manual, which is much larger, but I never was able to find a working link to download it. Many of the download links on Techno's site did not work for me, including the email link for the resident expert.


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## AR1911 (Nov 8, 2015)

Chevydyl - The reason I asked about servos in Mach3 is because all the conversions I saw seemed to use steppers. The only detailed Techno conversion I found used steppers in place of the original servos.  

These servos are rated at 50 oz-in of torque, which seems pretty weak.  But the one video I found showing them moving seemed to indicate plenty of authority.  Are servos rated differently, or is the design such that a lower torque rating is equivalent to a higher rating on a stepper?
    At any rate, I'd like to use the existing servos if possible.


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## chevydyl (Nov 8, 2015)

It's the drives you need to worry about, finding the right drives to work with the motors and encoders. Not sure if you have read the mach3 manual but you should 3-4 times over like I have, seems I miss something everytime lol.
Steppers and drives are cheap, that's why more use is seen. But they suck, lost steps and heat, my servos have never even changed from room temp, I've left em set on for hours holding torque/position while I screwed around fixing a cam issue, then run the part for the next 2hrs at moderate speeds, again never changed temp I was amazed because there is a sticker that says hot surface on it. I had steppers for something else and they were hot at all times it seemed. I think your motors may be low rpm DC, mine are high rpm 5k AC brushless, I think you should try your and see if they are enough, if not then upgrade. I personally would want Rapid feed at least of 100ipm, minimum, but 150 would be better or more, I have the ability to increase mine to 250ipm but 100 has shown to be OK for my mill. Your also sitting on iron ways so I would think it would work well for you too.

I think this project is cool, I have some parts stacking up to make a small cnc lathe, linear ball ways, with 19" Z travel and 14" of X, with the parts I have now, the screws I have already sorta limit the z travel, but it's a good mix


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## AR1911 (Nov 8, 2015)

That's sort of my thinking on the servos. I just can't find any info on the existing units beyond what is on their labels (and listed on the lathe specs).   I do have pinouts on the board connections, so I think I can reverse-engineer the wiring.  
   My next question is who sells a decent servo driver compatible with these at a decent price?

I have that mach3 manual, I'll do some reading


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## chevydyl (Nov 8, 2015)

Www.a-m-c.com may be able to help, they were recommended to me on another forum. Not sure of price but you Probably Need to call em and figure out what you need. On the other hand you may be able to source used servos/drives on ebay for alot less, just be careful and make sure what you get is currently supported by the manufacturer. I went with Allen Bradley because of that, little more expensive but great products, I think the motors and drives retail for around 2 grand item


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## rdean (Nov 8, 2015)

I too have used Allen Bradley drives on two of my conversions and can't imagine using anything else.  My drives are slightly older than the ones chevydyl used but they are still readily available and cheaper.  The Allen Bradley servo setup program is free and many times better than other manufactures setups I have seen.   Keep an eye on eBay for some really good deals.   I have bought Allen Bradley Servo drives from $100 to $400 each over the years and  1hp+ servo motors from $125 to $250 each.  These are all used but I never got a bad one yet just know what you want and watch what you buy.
Ray


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## AR1911 (Nov 8, 2015)

No way I'd spend for than about $500 on this. What I would like to find first is a driver board that will support these drives, then a breakbout board to connect them to a PC running mach3 (or mach4).

If that doesn't work I'll go the stepper route.  Or if, a servo driver board exceeds the cost of steppers + drivers.


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## chevydyl (Nov 8, 2015)

I think I have 700 into 2 drives and motors, used from ebay. I have to agree with rdean, I absolutely love my allen bradley components, it doesn't stop at the servos and drives, I use a 24v power supply and relay cards from them, as well as master control relay,  PLC type components. If it's industrial electronics I prefer my A-B, my board is the C62 from cnc4pc, it's the 24v board, dual port. I went with 5 hat one because of ease of integration with A-B components being they are all 24v.


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## AR1911 (Nov 9, 2015)

chevydyl, that's about half Greek to me


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## chevydyl (Nov 9, 2015)

Lol well it sound like you need to do some studying bud. I've been studying diy cnc for the last 2 years, I bought a bunch of stuff to build a machine from scratch, steppers and stepper drives, I then sold all that except my linear rails and screws, studied mor and more and bought components for my knee mill, going servos this time, I've always liked Allen Bradley stuff, and found super deals on the components. But I'll say that I studied the manuals over and over, and over some more, and when it came time to power things up It was seamless, I was cutting parts that day, wishing I would have spent more time learning the cam program I bought 2 years ago. The only hiccup I had was electronic gearing, I asked on another forum how to use it, then it suddenly clicked before I got an answer. Basically my setup with the mechanical 3:1 drive ratio, and 2000 line encoders (quadrature count is 8000/rev) with a 5tpi screw, it was 120,000 steps per inch, very high step resolution but slooooow rapids. So in the drive I could make it to where every step pulse coming in was 2 steps going out to the motor, I think I did a 3:1 electronic gearing and got my rapid speed up to 100ipm with a resolution of around half a tenth or smaller.

Have you gotten a cnc machine up and running yet?


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## chevydyl (Nov 9, 2015)

Stupid double post


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## AR1911 (Nov 12, 2015)

Where can I find for info on these drives?

My Google-Fu fails me.


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## AR1911 (Nov 12, 2015)

chevydyl said:


> Have you gotten a cnc machine up and running yet?



Actually, no, so I have a bit of a psychological barrier there.
I have a small mill that I completed the conversion on, but I went on to other projects before I worked out how to make it actually run.


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## JimDawson (Nov 12, 2015)

MCG was sold to AMETEK in Berwin, PA in 2008.  http://www.ametek.com/contactus

Might be worth a call to them


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## AR1911 (Nov 15, 2015)

Well, still nothing on the servos. I checked with Gekko and they had no info either.
So I'm just going to go with the G540 al-in-one solution with some steppers.  I just need to figure out which steppers to buy, and from whom.
    I am leaning toward the Hybrid steppers from Automated Technology.


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## chevydyl (Nov 15, 2015)

I would definitely focus some energy on getting your mill running.
I bought at one time the g540 and 570oz steppers from automation tech, they worked, but while tuning the motors it blew a drive...lame. so I sold all that crap and bought servos, I'll never buy another stepper setup for a machine tool, IMO they are OK for simple automation, I know tons of people use them on machine tools, because they are cheap. Another great thing about my servos is that they are silent.... and they never get even warm


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## AR1911 (Nov 15, 2015)

The mill is a Sherline-based teaching mill.
Cute, but limited.

Looks like this is the best bet for the Techno lathe:

http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/g540-stepper-motor-kits/g540-381ozin-48v


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## chevydyl (Nov 15, 2015)

That would probably do the trick, just for comparison the prototrak k4 mill, which is the big knee mill, it's got 1000 lbs on the bridgeport, it uses 280oz servos, but also has a 2.75:1 drive, so that's 770inoz at the screws, it uses DC servos


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## chevydyl (Nov 15, 2015)

So what's left on getting the mill running?


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## AR1911 (Nov 15, 2015)

chevydyl said:


> That would probably do the trick, just for comparison the prototrak k4 mill, which is the big knee mill, it's got 1000 lbs on the bridgeport, it uses 280oz servos, but also has a 2.75:1 drive, so that's 770inoz at the screws, it uses DC servos



This one had 50 oz-in servos in direct drive.  I guess servo torque is different from stepper torque.


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## AR1911 (Nov 15, 2015)

chevydyl said:


> So what's left on getting the mill running?



Good question. I had a long thread on it: 

http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=99569

It might be all I need to do is go through the Mach3 setup.
But basically I got it finished and got zero response when I powered it all up. 
Then ADHD kicked in and I got involved in other things.


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## chevydyl (Nov 15, 2015)

Well I gathered from your earlier posts that you didn't really read the Mach manual, so my guess is you don't have your ports and pins setup right, which is imperative to get a response from the motors.


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## wrat (Nov 16, 2015)

chevydyl said:


> so I sold all that crap and bought servos, I'll never buy another stepper setup for a machine tool, IMO they are OK for simple automation, I know tons of people use them on machine tools, because they are cheap. Another great thing about my servos is that they are silent.... and they never get even warm


I know this is a debate in some circles, but it seems much of the debate is between theorists and not so much between those that have been down the road.
Someone's experience goes a very long way with me.  This is a prime example.

Wrat.


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## AR1911 (Nov 16, 2015)

chevydyl said:


> Well I gathered from your earlier posts that you didn't really read the Mach manual, so my guess is you don't have your ports and pins setup right, which is imperative to get a response from the motors.



That's true, I did not have the setup tutorial at the time. I did read it last night.
Maybe I'll tackle that this week while I wait for parts to come in for my other projects


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## chevydyl (Nov 16, 2015)

Wrat, I'm failing to see what you are implying, are you saying that what I've been saying is theory? I have been down the road, check my build log. Or are you talking about AR1911?

And to you AR1911, get on to reading that manual, if you have questions ask, I'd be more than willing to help answer any questions you have regarding getting your setup running, as would most of the others here.


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## wrat (Nov 16, 2015)

chevydyl said:


> Wrat, I'm failing to see what you are implying, are you saying that what I've been saying is theory? I have been down the road, check my build log. Or are you talking about AR1911?


I wasn't implying anything negative.  No need to get on your hind legs.  I wasn't quoting or addressing AR1911, as it was your quote from message #19.

I was simply giving you some kudos, in my own clumsy way, I guess, for taking a definitive stand on the servo/stepper choice.  But mostly some props from the decision being ensconced in experience rather than theory.

Sometimes that choice has been an issue of debate.  Sometimes that debate has been among theorists (those who have not done anything) rather than those with experience (like yourself).  Thusly, this:


wrat said:


> Someone's experience goes a very long way with me.  This is a prime example.


is a compliment, not an indictment.

Whew!  Hope that cleared up something.

Wrat.


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## chevydyl (Nov 16, 2015)

Cool thanks, I wasn't totally sure


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## MecTechMike (May 7, 2019)

Knowing this is a long dormant thread, I'm in desperate need of the password to the VFD.  The default VFD password (225) does not work.  Does anyone know what Techno-Isel uses?


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## Silo7 (Jan 2, 2020)

MecTechMike said:


> Knowing this is a long dormant thread, I'm in desperate need of the password to the VFD.  The default VFD password (225) does not work.  Does anyone know what Techno-Isel uses?


Did you ever get the password? I am in need of the same. Also, you mentioned replacing the motors, do you still have the originals? If so, I am interested in buying them, I bought my Techno Isel with both axis motors missing.


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## Silo7 (Jan 2, 2020)

AR1911 said:


> That's true, I did not have the setup tutorial at the time. I did read it last night.
> Maybe I'll tackle that this week while I wait for parts to come in for my other projects


Did you ever complete? Still have the original motors? If so, I am interested in purchasing.


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## MecTechMike (Jan 3, 2020)

Silo7 said:


> Did you ever get the password? I am in need of the same. Also, you mentioned replacing the motors, do you still have the originals? If so, I am interested in buying them, I bought my Techno Isel with both axis motors missing.


Try 127 or 128.  One of these is the get out of jail passwords.

My drive died shortly after my install.  Be sure to power the drive and let it sit for a while to recondition the drive prior to strenuous use.


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## Silo7 (Jan 3, 2020)

MecTechMike said:


> Try 127 or 128.  One of these is the get out of jail passwords.
> 
> My drive died shortly after my install.  Be sure to power the drive and let it sit for a while to recondition the drive prior to strenuous use.


I switched gears, decided to not resurrect the Techno board and motors. Purchased clearpath servos and Acorn board to start fresh. The Acorn interface was just too nice to overlook.


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