# Giving myself eye strain again....Files



## Aukai (Sep 9, 2017)

Been looking at the subject, former good companies, aren't anymore. American grade, Swiss grade. I'm a little skeptical about ebay, thinking you don't know the real condition till you get it. I did read some threads here, but were a few years old. I would like to get a couple of must have files, and know they are good. Thank you as always.


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## samthedog (Sep 9, 2017)

I use Bahco. Although they are now made in Portugal?? or Brazil (can't remember which), I have not noticed any dive in quality compared to my Swedish Bahco files. They still last and work great.

Paul.


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## Ken from ontario (Sep 9, 2017)

Lee Valley sells some good files, I have  had a Nicholson in the second link for a few years (light use) and now  it's starting to show its age. 
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=69904&cat=1,43072,43089,69904
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=56529&cat=1,42524


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## mikey (Sep 9, 2017)

I'm slowly starting to switch to Pferd machinist's files. I'm attaching some useful info from them so you know what you're looking at. One Pferd file that I want is the Flat File Plus - one safe edge, chip breakers, etc. https://www.pferdusa.com/products/201a/201a02/201a0202P.html

One of the first files I suggest you get is a lathe file. I think the first of Ken's links above is a lathe file. The one I have is this one: https://www.amazon.com/Nicholson-American-Pattern-Single-Rectangular/dp/B006P2XGDU. I have the 8 and 10" and they work so well that I may buy more from Pferd.

You need at least one single cut/bastard file for roughing, the length of which depends on your anatomy. For me, at 5'-8", I prefer a 10" file. 

You need at least one double cut file for finishing. I prefer an 8" for this.

You need at least one round file for enlarging/moving holes. I have several but surprisingly, I prefer a chainsaw file with a constant diameter most of the time.

For fine work, I use Grobet files. These are like riffler files for metal. It is amazing how fast and precisely these cut.

I must have 25 or more files scattered around in my shop but the lathe file, bastard and smooth files are the work horses. I particularly like them for drawfiling.

Brands that I know to be good: Pferd, Grobet.
Brands that work pretty good: Nicholson, Simmons.

I'm sure others will be along shortly.


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## Aukai (Sep 9, 2017)

Thank you, been looking at the Pferd line, Nicholson since moving to Mexico is having popularity issues, and I think I saw something similar for Simmons. This is just what I have been coming across, hence my possible error on the subject. I saw it on the internet......


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## mikey (Sep 9, 2017)

Yup, saw that, too. My Nicholson lathe files are fine but I'm switching to Pferd. @darkzero is making me spend money.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Sep 9, 2017)

American pattern and Swiss pattern files are not grades, they describe the pattern of the cutting edges.


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## Aukai (Sep 9, 2017)

Thank you wreck, still learning.....I saw it on the internet....

American 'bastard cut' is equivalent to Swiss 'grade 00'. 

American 'second cut' is equivalent to Swiss 'grade 0'.

American 'smooth cut' is equivalent to Swiss 'grade 2'.
I'm still confusing to myself.....


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## Frank Ford (Sep 9, 2017)

Just a quick word here:

If you don't know about file sharpening, here's a great reference:

BOGGS TOOL AND FILE SHARPENING COMPANY

You can't beat their deal - send 'em all your old files, and they sharpen them and send them back.  They'll all come back sharp or sharper than new, and the cost is really low!   Read about the process - it's 120 year old technology, but effective for sure.  Basically steam/abrasive blasting.

I thought it was too good to be true until I sent a bunch of files - even the ones they said were rejects came back so good it was amazing.


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## ddickey (Sep 9, 2017)

The Tomé Feteira files are very good also.
Many found here.
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Cutting-Tools/Tome-Feteira-Files


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## darkzero (Sep 10, 2017)

mikey said:


> Yup, saw that, too. My Nicholson lathe files are fine but I'm switching to Pferd. @darkzero is making me spend money.



Hey, well friends don't let friends keep their wallet full or buy cheap tools.  Well technically you are up on me! My lil brother finally dropped of that Mitu level the other day. Thanks again!

I've only got 2 Nicholson files, both purchased from Home Depot. One is a 2 way, single cut on one side & double cut on the other. It has been holding up well. My other one is a single cut & it was the last Nicholson file I purchased, the thing felt like it dulled only after a few uses. I used to use it on the lathe for breaking edges.

Simmons & Grobet were my other choices before I went with Pferd. Have to be careful with Grobet cause they have an economy line that are made in China or somewhere else. I didn't look much into Simmons though when I discovered Amazon was selling lots of the Pferd. Unfortunately for some reason Amazon is not selling them anymore, well not restocking the ones that have sold out, only available from 3rd party sellers. Only thing I don't like about Pferd are lots of them just have a shear cut at the front end. Doesn't affect functionality or anything but it just seems unfinished in a sense. I can easily just clean that up on a belt sander but whatever. Belt sander works great for making your own safe edges, I remember doing that to one of my files cause I needed it.

The Flat File Plus is pretty cool. I've only used it once though on aluminum. Pretty cool cause it doesn't clog nearly as easy as your normal files.








And long angle files. I love them. Yup, everyone needs to have at least one of these. I like them so much I bought a whole case of them! Got a good deal on them so figured why not. I thought about selling some but I no longer want to.





My only regret (sort of) is that I didn't get a 12" LAL, mine are 10". I always see guys with huge files. Pferd only makes them in 10" & 12". Nicholson makes them in 14". But then again I don't have a big lathe & I don't work on big stuff.

Which brings me to a question I've always wanted to ask. What size files do you guys prefer to use and why? I Pferd  8" which most of mine are but then again I've never owned a file larger than 12".


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## mikey (Sep 10, 2017)

I love it when Will comes along. His pics and narrative just sort of sucks you right in. Before you know it, you're on Amazon or eBay, looking for the same stuff. Luckily, he knows what he's talking about! I have a Flat File Plus in another window as we speak - insidious, I tell you ...

Glad the level thing worked out, Will.

I prefer a 10" file for roughing, primarily because that length allows me to keep my elbows in tight without extending my arms too far on the forward stroke, while allowing me to use the full length of the file. A 12" file is too long for me and while it works, it makes it harder for me to keep the file level.

I like an 8" file for finishing. It allows me to get over the work and take lighter, shorter strokes. Quite often, I'll have to round a corner and short, round strokes let me control the file better. I also use an 8" double-cut to ease or chamfer edges so this is a work horse for me.

For drawfiling, I choke up on the file so the length doesn't matter but I prefer the lathe file for roughing and a double-cut for finish draw filing.

Chalk is used on all my files because I hate pinning. A brass rod gets rid of the pinning when I do have it.


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## darkzero (Sep 10, 2017)

Haha & thanks Mike for your input on file lengths! When I was searching to buy new quality files to replace all my cheap crap. Funny, the file I used for the longest was a Craftsman made in India that was black oxide coated. Why would you even want to black oxide a file? Anyways, I searched & searched for file lengths that people commonly used for machining related. I couldn't find anything. Just seemed to be personal preference.

But what I did find was something that I never knew, was that that files get coarser as they get longer. So if you purchased 2 identical type cut files but in 2 different lengths, the shorter one will have a finer cut.

So I figured I would just stick with 8" & 10", then buy coarser cut files if needed. Well that led me to buy more files than I need but at least I have them at hand whenever needed.


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## mikey (Sep 10, 2017)

I don't know about you but if I use too long a file, my forward hand causes the tip of the file to rise. Might just be my anatomy but I can file more accurately with a 10" long file than I can with a 12" long file. Maybe its a lack of skill ...

I did want to remind Aukai to buy a good file card like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Simonds-File-Card-Brush-Pack/dp/B0050EEW1Y. I use the brush side most of the time but when I need to clear chips, the steel side is used. I try not to use it too often as it might dull the teeth a bit; that's why I use chalk.


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## darkzero (Sep 10, 2017)

I have a file card just like that, they pretty much all look the same, just different colored bristles. Mine is made by Lutz & has black bristles. No matter, but the steel "bristles" always had me wondering. They just don't seem right, like they are too large in dia. I always felt weird using the steel bristles & they never seemed that effective to me. 

My card before the Lutz is a Nicholson that only has the steel bristles. Not sure if it's a mental thing but I feel like it would do more harm to the file than good. I only use the nylon (or whatever) bristles for cleaning which works quite well. And for that stubborn aluminum that won't come out, I run it over some copper. I just use scrap pieces of copper pipe & it works well. Better than sittingbthere trying to pick all that crap out.


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## mikey (Sep 10, 2017)

darkzero said:


> And for that stubborn aluminum that won't come out, I run it over some copper. I just use scrap pieces of copper pipe & it works well. Better than sittingbthere trying to pick all that crap out.



Yup, brass, copper - both work and neither harm the file - good stuff.


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## Aukai (Sep 10, 2017)

Got it, thank you. Thank you all for the responses.


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## ddickey (Sep 10, 2017)

Aukai,
Try looking for NOS on eBay.
I found two very nice new files there for a very reasonable price.
My favorite for the lathe is a K&F 8" long angle lathe fine cut file. 
The other is a US made Nicholson Mill Blunt second cut 10 incher.


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## Frank Ford (Sep 10, 2017)

Classic technique for cleaning files is to run some softer material, such as hardwood or copper, in line with the teeth:








After years of just using any old scrap, I made myself a fancy holder for pieces of bamboo.
It hangs on the tool board, ready for easy use:





Bamboo is works really well to push out those little chips. 
Every so often I have to pick 'em out with the backside point of  a regular X-Acto #11 blade.


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## 4GSR (Sep 10, 2017)

Not to hijack the thread a little, I must ask, how do you guys store your files?  I looking for something that will hold lots of files 20-30+, with handles and without.  Ken


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## dlane (Sep 10, 2017)

Same here , now there in a drawer, but that's not good for them . I thought about a magnetic strip on the wall  but didn't want to magnify the files. Handles make it hard to save space.


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## Technical Ted (Sep 10, 2017)

You might not be interested in doing this for that many files (unless you've got some kids/grandkids you can assign to the task ) but some guys make up a cardboard scabbard for each and then just keep them in a drawer or whatever... pretty easy and fast to make up. I'm sure it could be improved on by using something better than cardboard...

Ted


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## kvt (Sep 10, 2017)

Instead of making covers for them,   Use a divided drawer, an also use the strips of cardboard to separate them in the compartments.  Right now I have 4 files so do not have much of a problem, but been looking at them today, as needed one to do something.


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## dlane (Sep 10, 2017)

I've gotten thermoplastic from amazon to make holsters it's called Kydex, nice stuff , I could see making a few file holsters out of that but not for 20-30 of them , but that's me.
It would make good file sleeves probably last forever.


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## mikey (Sep 10, 2017)

I'm embarrassed to say that my files are just hanging in a rack. I'm careful not to bang them if I can but they do knock together from time to time. I need to be more careful I suppose.


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## kvt (Sep 10, 2017)

I do not have the wall space to hang files on the wall,   To much stuff in too small a space.  Thus put stuff between them in the drawer


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## benmychree (Sep 10, 2017)

I have a rack on the end of my work bench, made of 16ga. sheet metal, bent lengthwise with a leg 1" on one side and about 2 " on the other and having slots cut in it at approx. 2" intervals that run back to within about 1/2" of the 1" leg, then the wide leg is bent up about 20 degrees in the opposite direction of the 1" leg, about 3/4" from the outer edge of the slots, which keeps the files from falling off the rack I also have one of these racks with only one or two slots for the lathe back benches for a mill and lathe file.  Note, the 1" leg of the angle is used to fasten the rack to the bench with screws.
I also keep lots of files in a drawer in the bench, the nicer examples having sheaths made with file folder cardboard held together with strapping tape.


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## brino (Sep 10, 2017)

4gsr said:


> Not to hijack the thread a little, I must ask, how do you guys store your files?



Years ago I was trying to figure out file storage. This is what I came up with.



I cut a piece of 3/4" plywood to tightly fit a drawer in my tool chest.
I laid out my files across the board to figure out where they should fit.
Using a dado blade in the table saw I cut a number of slots to hold the files and stop them from hitting together.

Across the front of the drawer are some long wood rasps that go from one side of the drawer to the other. 
The narrow slots keep them stored up on edge.


Smaller files are oriented in other grooves.




As you can see various handles also live in that drawer.

Usually, I can just push down on the tang end of a file and and grab the other end, but sometimes I need to fish them out.
I should cut a couple of "finger grooves" to allow me to actually grab the files from their slots more easily.

This is how the drawer normally looks with a few packs of needle files on top. 
There are also a few pieces of bicycle inner-tube that I use when I throw a file in a toolbox for working away from my shop.



I have NOT noticed any rusting from the plywood absorbing moisture. 
If in a more humid climate I would probably treat the plywood with oil to avoid any problems.

It works for me.
-brino


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## francist (Sep 10, 2017)

PVC pipe leftovers hot melt glued together then stuck to a bit of board, ala knife block style. 

Self governing so small and skinny stands in front, long and tall go to the back, just like family photos. Usually sits behind me so I can wheel ninety degrees to grab what I need, but obviously portable if necessary. There's 24 files in this block with a total footprint of about 5 X 8 inches.

-frank


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## Rockytime (Sep 10, 2017)

Here's a few of mine. Others are scattered around the shop.


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## kvt (Sep 11, 2017)

I did not think hot melt glue was that good.   I have some PVC,  Even have my wifes hot melt somewhere.   I may have to barrow  your idea.


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## Aaron_W (Sep 19, 2017)

3/4" and 1" fire hose  (25mm for the Aussies) used for wildland firefighting makes a great sheath for flat files. Of course the most economical way to get it is to get a piece of out of service hose, but if you can find a vender who will sell the hose without couplings, even new it isn't that expensive $1-2 a foot, it is the couplings that add a lot to the cost. A lot of hardware stores sell the 3/4" flat hose these days which is basically the same stuff as the 3/4" fire hose.


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## royesses (Sep 19, 2017)

I use the scabbard method. Photo shows just a few of the files. I use manila folders cut to size. Wrap the folder around the file fold the end over and use packaging tape to hold it together. It gives you a surface to write a description of the file on. Cheap and easy and will last for a very long time.


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## Aaron_W (Sep 19, 2017)

Frank Ford said:


> After years of just using any old scrap, I made myself a fancy holder for pieces of bamboo.
> It hangs on the tool board, ready for easy use:
> 
> 
> ...




One of the things I am quickly coming to appreciate is the dumb little gizmos people come up with just because they can. "A block of wood works so lets make a wood holder out of brass and add a fancy wooden handle to it" 

It is a lovely little tool you've whipped up there.


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