# It's time to aquire metals. What do I want?



## Spokerider (Mar 10, 2020)

Ok. I've bought a small 6" Craftsman lathe, bought a few HSS tools, now I need material to learn / try this lathe out. Turning, facing, drilling and boring, etc.  I'm a 1st time turner here. 

What do I want? To buy new and known steels, alloys and aluminum locally, I'll be opening my wallet at Metal Supermarkets. Yep...they have it, but they IS spendy. 
 What do you suggest? 1020? 6061? or? 

 To date, I have acquired a few lengths of round bar stock and old machinery shafts with splines and even roller bearings still insitu.  These machinery shafts are going to be hard for sure, but I dunno how hard. Maybe not the best for turning for a 1st effort. The other unknown assorted round alloy stock bars / shorts, came from a friends machine shop scrap pile. They could be anything from low carbon scraps on up to high carbon / hardened and even a length of stainless. 

 Thanks for your thots.


----------



## DavidR8 (Mar 10, 2020)

Wait....you have a friend that has access to a machine shop scrap pile? Here in town???
Gold mine!!!

In all seriousness, I bought a bunch of 1018, 4140 and 6061 a while back from Metal Supermarket. When I compared prices and accounted for currency exchange the prices were within pennies of the online retailers in the US. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bob Korves (Mar 10, 2020)

I suggest you get materials that are appropriate for the parts you will be making, and for the machines you will be using to make them.  We have no idea what you want to make...


----------



## benmychree (Mar 10, 2020)

Get a grip, Bob, he wants to make chips!  Seriously though, 1018/20 and 6061 T6 are good materials to get started with, or even some free machining steel and 303 stainless.


----------



## Spokerider (Mar 10, 2020)

Thanks for the advice ben, that's what I was asking. 
 That's right.……..I have no idea what my projects will end up being at this time. I just wanna try this thing out.


----------



## Spokerider (Mar 10, 2020)

Bob Korves said:


> I suggest you get materials that are appropriate for the parts you will be making, and for the machines you will be using to make them.  We have no idea what you want to make...



 Chips man, chips!
 I wanna make chips for a first project!


----------



## Nogoingback (Mar 10, 2020)

You could start with 6061 and 1018: they're cheap and available.  Stainless maybe after you have some experience since it can have a tendency to work harden.  Do you have any old printers around?  The rods inside can be used and they machine nicely. 

If you have some mystery metal around, by all means have at it but just be aware that  hard material will be tough to turn on a 6" Atlas.


----------



## mikey (Mar 10, 2020)

I would start with 12L14 mild steel, 6061-T-6 aluminum and brass. All are easy to cut on a small lathe. You need to learn how to use your lathe and your tools and all of these materials will allow you to succeed with the minimal amount of stress - to you and your lathe. From what I've heard, a 6" Atlas is not a rigid powerhouse so stay away from hard stuff and stuff that is hard to get a decent finish on. Later, when you know what you're doing, you can move on to stainless, tool steels, etc.


----------



## francist (Mar 10, 2020)

Whatever you decide on — 6061, 1018, etc — I’d suggest getting it in a reasonable size. 1” or 1-1/4” are great and give you lots of opportunity to make cuts and passes without getting so thin that flex and chatter start to figure in right away. I also wouldn’t overlook A36 hot rolled. It doesn’t look very sexy but once you’re past the outside layer of mill scale it turns ok. And it’s cheaper than the other options if you’re just making big things smaller.

-frank


----------



## erikmannie (Mar 10, 2020)

Usually when I buy metal, I go down to the local steel yard and buy mild steel. They pretty much only carry mild steel and aluminum. They have a scrap bin as well as remnants. I usually choose the remnants.

I particularly like using steel because a magnet makes cleanup much easier.

Also, I noticed that practicing on mild steel makes for an easier and better time when you end up making something out of brass, aluminum or 12L14.


----------



## Chewy (Mar 10, 2020)

The first chips on the lathe was made with big scrap bolts. Grade 2 (3/8" & smaller) grade 5 & 8 from scrap yards, & repair shops.  Spring U bolts cut down, suspension bolts ETC.  They were all free.  They machined like 1018, but probably wasn't. Great for learning to grind HSS blanks, how to adjust feed and speed.  Still use them to this day for experimenting.  Then I have a reference for "bought" known steel.  And if you find any solid aluminum, just turn it. Don't worry about if it is 6061 or 7075 or something else. 
Just Do It!!!


----------



## DavidR8 (Mar 10, 2020)

I too belong to the bolt turning club. 
Long shanks, 3/4” of thread means you get nice lengths of usable round stock. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GL (Mar 10, 2020)

https://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com.  Good source of drop material for reasonable prices. Aluminum, brass, steel.  Less than 1" Dia mostly.


----------



## Eddyde (Mar 10, 2020)

Ebay is a good source of small pieces of various stock, especially aluminum.


----------



## Janderso (Mar 10, 2020)

12L14 baby. Cuts like butter and very forgiving.


----------



## martik777 (Mar 10, 2020)

Fastenal has a sale on 1144. I got 12ft of 3/4" round for $37USD. Same piece here was $300+ from metal supermarkets.




__





						Fastenal Industrial Supplies, OEM Fasteners, Safety Products & More
					

Fastenal is the largest fastener distributor in North America. Shop our huge selection of OEM, MRO, construction, industrial, and safety products.




					www.fastenal.com
				




Old barbell sets have a 1" steel bar that machines ok, brass fireplace tools, color laser printers...


----------



## Aaron_W (Mar 11, 2020)

Online metals has a lot of useful information on their site even if you don't buy from them. They have weight calculators, hardness tables, melting points and one of the most useful, descriptions of different metals. I've linked to their product descriptions, but if you scroll to the bottom of the page look where it says learning center, there are all kind of useful links there.

https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/product-guide


I get that you just want to try some different materials but you can at least look to those that are easier to work with / avoid really bad ones. When you see the term "free machining" in relation to a metal that is a good thing for the machine operator unless you are a glutton for punishment. Be aware that for some reason good machining and good welding qualities often do not go together, so if you want to machine something and weld it your options are much more limited. In my limited experience smaller local metal supplies tend to lean towards welding supplies in their metal selection.

In steel 12L14 is nice to work with. 1144 aka stress proof is also nice and I've found it more readily available than 12L14 at least locally. 1018 is fairly cheap and weldable, but it doesn't get a great surface finish. I usually end up cleaning it up with some emery cloth if I need it to look nice. "Hot rolled" is similar (don't know what number it is, the local place just calls it hot rolled).

Aluminum 6061 is common and machines well, there are some that are supposed to be better but this is the only one I've used. It can also be TIG welded.

Brass 360 aka "free machining brass" which is a clue  is nice to work with except for the freaking slivers.

Bronze is very similar to brass but it machines differently. I have no idea what kind it was as it was free, it came out real nice though and machined more like aluminum with long curls instead of a bunch of little stabby splinters.

If you can get your hands on some cast iron, it is worthwhile just for the experience. I would describe it as standing in the path of a hot sand blaster.


I've turned all of these except for the cast iron on my little Sherline mill, so I'd expect the 6" Atlas to be capable if working with any of these. I have not played with any stainless steel.


----------



## martik777 (Mar 11, 2020)

A good source for cast iron are used brake rotors. 

Don't forget wood, hardwood is great for many projects, handles, knobs, dowels etc. I've made monitor stands out of particle board


----------



## ttabbal (Mar 11, 2020)

I've been playing with 303 stainless lately. That stuff is almost as easy to work as 12L14. I get a nice finish on it as well. https://hobbymetalkits.com/ is a good source for small quantities without huge shipping costs. They stock all the stuff mentioned in the thread. If you aren't in a hurry, eBay has decent deals sometimes if the seller doesn't kill you on shipping. Irritating when you know it fits in a flat rate box easily.


----------



## ttabbal (Mar 11, 2020)

One more option I like is PVC pipe/conduit. Cheap, and available. Cuts like butter. I really liked it for learning threading.


----------



## ErichKeane (Mar 11, 2020)

Cast Iron is the WOOOOORST.  The chips suck and it gets everywhere.  Also, in my experience, it is REALLY sensitive to Feeds/Speeds, and seems to hate lube.  I find you can get 1018 REALLY often at metal supply shops (my local supports welding only, so thats what you get most easily!) and is often just sold as 'cold roll'.

1040 pre-heat is awesome for anything that requires a bit of strength, but it is harder to machine.  It is a pre-heat-treated steel, so its a bit harder (though soft enough for HSS/Carbide tooling) thus more difficult on the machine.

6061 aluminum is really easy to get your hands on and is about as forgiving of a material as is possible.  When I had a smaller lathe it was my go-to material for affordability and ease of maintainability.


----------



## Spokerider (Mar 11, 2020)

Thank you gentlemen, this is all great info for a newbie.

I need to make an el-cheapo spectro-thingy.....a hollow plastic tube and ball bearing......to drop onto the scrap that I have, to give me an idea as to it's hardness. I do want to pass [ for now ] on the hardened steels for learning, as advised. 

 I need to learn what 12L14 is...…...


----------



## ErichKeane (Mar 11, 2020)

For plastic, Delrin and HPDE are both really great metals.  I've not turned ABS, but I hear good things too.  There is a plastics sales company that sponsors the forum (https://www.plastiblocks.com/) that sells and ships small quantities.

12L14 : This is a good description: https://www.alro.com/divsteel/metals_gridpt.aspx?gp=0009
Basically just a phosphor/sulfur/lead rich steel that ends up being incredibly easy to machine for metals.  

I use this chart to get a good idea of how machinable something is: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/machinability-metals-d_1450.html 
While that chart isn't perfect, it does a really good job showing how difficult a metal will be to machine compared to others.  For example, normal "Cold Rolled Steel" is typically 1018, which you can see is 78% machinabillity index (100% is based on 1212).  12L14 is 170%, so 2x as easy to machine.

NOte all the cast irons are about 50%, and aluminum can be as much as 450%!  That chart doesn't have brass unfortunately, but it is quite easy as well.


----------



## ericc (Mar 11, 2020)

Spokerider said:


> ...
> I need to make an el-cheapo spectro-thingy.....a hollow plastic tube and ball bearing......to drop onto the scrap that I have, to give me an idea as to it's hardness.
> ....



I would like to make one too.  I haven't been able to find any good plans.  I can't afford a real one, unless I could somehow get it to pay rent.

Lots of good suggestions.  Sometimes, when buying tools on Craigslist, there is a pile of junk metal that one can make a deal for.  I went to a fab shop which was getting liquidated to buy some tools, and they gave me a bunch of bar end drops for free.  They were only about 4-6" long, but the price was right!


----------



## Nogoingback (Mar 11, 2020)

+1 on 12L14.  Machines very easily and produces a better surface finish than 1018.


----------



## projectnut (Mar 11, 2020)

I would suggest purchasing metals from local machine shops, salvage yards, and surplus dealers  long before going to online retailers.  I buy literally hundreds of pounds of 1018, and 4140 steel, 316 stainless, and 6061 and 6057 aluminum each year.  I stock a fair amount of 6061 in both round and flat stock ranging in size from 1/4" to 8" rounds, and 1/4"x1/4" to 4" x 4" square.

Most is purchased from a surplus dealer @ $2.00 per pound for 6061, and $1.50 pre pound for the mild steel.  The 316 comes from a wholesale supplier generally about $2.25 to $2.45 per pound.

Last week I purchased some lengths of 2" x 2" 6061 from the surplus dealer.  One length was about 4'6" weighing 21 lbs. and the other about 2' weighing  about 17 lbs.  Both were new drops.  The cost was $75.00.  Just for comparison sake I looked up the same lengths from Speedy Metals.  It would have cost me about $300.00 plus shipping for the same lengths. 

If you already have a friend in the machine shop business I would give him a list of the drops you are interested in and ask him to keep an eye out for you.  They will be most likely selling it at scrap prices which is usually in the $.25 per pound range.  If you offer $1.00 to $1.50 per pound you'll both come out ahead.


----------



## eugene13 (Mar 11, 2020)

Spokerider said:


> Ok. I've bought a small 6" Craftsman lathe, bought a few HSS tools, now I need material to learn / try this lathe out. Turning, facing, drilling and boring, etc.  I'm a 1st time turner here.
> 
> What do I want? To buy new and known steels, alloys and aluminum locally, I'll be opening my wallet at Metal Supermarkets. Yep...they have it, but they IS spendy.
> What do you suggest? 1020? 6061? or?
> ...


Broom handles, if you want to make some chips, turn some hardwood, you get the "feel" of your machine,  it's a lot cheaper and easier than metal and you can use the chips in your smoker.  My grand kids had a ball making boats our of 2 X 6 scraps in my mill.


----------



## MontanaLon (Mar 11, 2020)

I buy metals from 3 different places. 1 is Alro outlet. Buying remnants by the pound is the most expensive way I buy metals but they usually have a good selection of different metals. Aluminum $2.99/ pound, mild steel $1.99/ pound and tool steels $1/pound.

The second place is a combination manufacturer and metal supply place. They have a few types of steel and 6061. Prices are competitive. But if I go through their scrap bins I get everything for $.25/pound. 

And then there are the various manufacturers local to me. They scrap out cutoffs and will let me dig through the bins containing scrap that in many cases is way too big for my uses, but that just means I get to make more chips.


----------



## tonydi (Dec 15, 2020)

I don't do much steel with my mini-lathe and mini-mill but there are things I'd like to make now that should be made in steel rather than aluminum.  I see so much support for 12L14 and I've been able to find round and hex stock easily and a little bit of square stock.  But what I can't find is 12L14 rectangular bars, like 1"x3", 2"x4", or larger bars/plate.

There must be some reason nobody sells that form but the reason escapes me.  Am I looking for a unicorn?


----------



## erikmannie (Dec 15, 2020)

tonydi said:


> I don't do much steel with my mini-lathe and mini-mill but there are things I'd like to make now that should be made in steel rather than aluminum.  I see so much support for 12L14 and I've been able to find round and hex stock easily and a little bit of square stock.  But what I can't find is 12L14 rectangular bars, like 1"x3", 2"x4", or larger bars/plate.
> 
> There must be some reason nobody sells that form but the reason escapes me.  Am I looking for a unicorn?



Have you looked on eBay?


----------



## Aaron_W (Dec 15, 2020)

Just a guess but 12L14 and 1144 are considered good machinable steels. Maybe so not common in these other shapes because it is assumed they will be turned on a lathe, so square / rectangular would not be very popular. 

Online metals has a resources section that provides material uses / properties. They show 1144 as round bar only and 12L14 as round or hex bar only. They do list 11L17 as a good machinable steel, and they only stock it in rectangular bars. 

Whether you buy from them or not Online metals does have a useful "learning center" with links at the bottom of their page. I have found their product guide a handy tool for metal selection.

Online Metals product guide


----------



## tonydi (Dec 16, 2020)

Thanks for the resource! Looks like 11L17 is pricey but a bigger concern was their note about it being used in situations where case hardening "is needed", something I'd probably never do.  Maybe I should just get some 1018 and be done with it.  I'm just thinking of making small stuff that need to be stronger than aluminum.


----------



## Nogoingback (Dec 16, 2020)

If you haven't already ordered the 1018, have a look at eBay for 1144 round bar: there's lots there and prices are OK.  1144
is much nicer to machine than 1018, with good surface finish.


----------



## Aaron_W (Dec 16, 2020)

Nogoingback said:


> If you haven't already ordered the 1018, have a look at eBay for 1144 round bar: there's lots there and prices are OK.  1144
> is much nicer to machine than 1018, with good surface finish.



He wants rectangular bars, not round.


----------



## Chewy (Dec 24, 2020)

Everybody covered al the "normal" types of metals.  If you want to make chips, small projects and still have a wallet, visit the junkyards, town dump or recycling center and yard sales and auctions.  Road side dumps are great too.  You will be surprised at what people throw away.  a 2" X 12" diameter mystery steel round.  Solid steel bars.  Flat plates and chunks.  You can go to an estate auction and get whole piles of metal for a dollar.   Just made a spare tire rack and ramps holding rack for a utility trailer out of bed frames.  Three visits to the country recycling center turning in plastic and cardboard and it didn't cost me a cent.

When you make a real, live, honest to God project, buy twice the metal of what you need.  If you make a mistake, you have spare and if you don't, you are on your way to having what you need for future projects. Once you get started, it gets easier.

Good luck!!!   Been there-done that!!!!


----------



## lagweezle (Feb 27, 2021)

ErichKeane said:


> For plastic, Delrin and HPDE are both really great metals. ...


I'm not sure how many times I've read through this thread, and only just now did my brain catch and hiccup on reading this sentence. "For plastic ... are both really great metals." Pretty sure you meant to write "materials", but I love this oops the way it is. <3


----------

