# Paid Gig Simple Shaft



## Doug Gray (Apr 2, 2021)

Hey Guys

Today in my tiny shop my company worked on a paying gig. A simple shaft. A 1045 shaft with a keyway on each end. Nothing to it right?


email supplier ask for quote wait
get price /order stock
pay for stock
wait two days
drive to suppler 40 minutes, get stock (during pandemic)
clean stock rags/break cleaner
swap out collet chuck for three jaw
face first end
chamfer first end
rough cut to length in band saw
face second end
chamfer second end
remove mill vice
set up stock on mill table
find end of work
find centre of work
set up mill table stop
mill key way four passes
flip work
mill key way four passes
debur
clean up lathe
clean up mill
reinstall/tram vice
create delivery slip
create invoice
deliver
wait 30-40 days to get paid
give 1/3 of any profit to government
Wear and tear on equipment/inserts end mills, shop supplies, fuel has to be $10-$15.
Minimum investment for required equipment aprox $10k
I'm not complaining, I'm just saying a lot goes into even the simplest of jobs.

Enjoy your shop time


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## MrWhoopee (Apr 2, 2021)

This was the sort of job I came to love, bring me a pallet load. Simple, non-critical, small chance of error and just as profitable by the hour as anything else. Of course, this sort of thing was our bread and butter. If we didn't have a 20 ft. bar in the rack already, we ordered it and our local steel supplier delivered.

I also used to love it when the (walk-in) customer *****ed complained about the price, and I explained to him that it took the experienced machinist an hour, he had $6k in his own tools and used $20k of my tools (saw, lathe and mill), plus material. 

We always provided keys and center-drilled shafts. Eliminates complaints about (their) keys not fitting and the guy who assembles it will bless you. So will the one who has to put a puller on it 20 years from now.

Looks more like cold-rolled 1018 than TGP 1045.


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## BladesIIB (Apr 2, 2021)

I don't disagree with any of the many steps above.  I truly do enjoy my shop time, and as I get older I think less about the many steps involved, keeps me from worrying about the ones I likely forgot.  My project plans now tend to be a standard 3 step process.  Step 1 Begin; Step 2 - Za Poof a miracle occurs; Step 3 Complete.  When it is a customer project, I bill based on my best estimation of the complexity of the miracle and material/tools required.  Yes, I jest.  Truly a lot does go into every machining job and project in the shop.  Good looking shaft.


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## MrWhoopee (Apr 2, 2021)

BladesIIB said:


> I don't disagree with any of the many steps above.  I truly do enjoy my shop time, and as I get older I think less about the many steps involved, keeps me from worrying about the ones I likely forgot.  My project plans now tend to be a standard 3 step process.  Step 1 Begin; Step 2 - Za Poof a miracle occurs; Step 3 Complete.  When it is a customer project, I bill based on my best estimation of the complexity of the miracle and material/tools required.  Yes, I jest.  Truly a lot does go into every machining job and project in the shop.  Good looking shaft.


I like your estimating method. It is probably every bit as accurate as the step-by-step estimates generated by the very expensive shop management software that we used.


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## nighthawkFmobil (Apr 2, 2021)

Approximately, what does one charge for a shaft like this?


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## markba633csi (Apr 2, 2021)

He's a complicated man, but no one respects him but his woman
I'm talkin' bout Shaft, can you dig it?


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## Doug Gray (Apr 2, 2021)

MrWhoopee said:


> This was the sort of job I came to love, bring me a pallet load. Simple, non-critical, small chance of error and just as profitable by the hour as anything else. Of course, this sort of thing was our bread and butter. If we didn't have a 20 ft. bar in the rack already, we ordered it and our local steel supplier delivered.
> 
> I also used to love it when the (walk-in) customer *****ed complained about the price, and I explained to him that it took the experienced machinist an hour, he had $6k in his own tools and used $20k of my tools (saw, lathe and mill), plus material.
> 
> ...


I like the provide keys idea for sure. It's cold rolled 1045


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## ErichKeane (Apr 2, 2021)

Oh man, this is exactly why I don't even TRY to make money in my shop.

My process would have been:


send person link to speedy-metals and tell them to bring it over when they are ready.
wait however long until they find a weeknight/weekend to stop by.
Toss in 6 jaw, face end.
Chamfer first end
rough cut in band saw (if necessary, person probably bought as short as they could )
face 2nd end
chamfer 2nd end
Pop into some V-blocks on the mill vise
set up mill table stop
find center of work
mill key way in 4 passes
flip work
mill key way in 4 passes
hand file and part to "customer", tell him to debur
Start drinking beer he brought over while he does it
Finish 1st beer, hand him the vacuum to clean up lathe and mill
Grab 2nd beer, finish while he cleans.
Mock him for falling behind on the drinking part of the day.
Grab 3rd beer.


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## markba633csi (Apr 2, 2021)

You forgot the part about fending off the "customer" as he tries to tell you how to do the job


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## nighthawkFmobil (Apr 2, 2021)

Well, at least there would be beer involved.


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## MrWhoopee (Apr 2, 2021)

nighthawkFmobil said:


> Well, at least there would be beer involved.


When I worked for Fred, some guy with a simple job like this would walk in the door late in the afternoon. Fred would hand the job to one of us youngsters and send the guy out for beer. One of these came in on a Friday but he insisted on paying cash. When I complained, Fred told me "you can't get beer from everybody". Word to live by.


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## MrWhoopee (Apr 2, 2021)

markba633csi said:


> You forgot the part about fending off the "customer" as he tries to tell you how to do the job


"All you gotta do is...."

I offered to let him use the machines.


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## macardoso (Apr 2, 2021)

I've done a couple home shop jobs and always wayyyy under quote. End up making <$20 an hour not including the purchase price of machines and equipment. Always kicking myself.


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## Doug Gray (Apr 2, 2021)

macardoso said:


> I've done a couple home shop jobs and always wayyyy under quote. End up making <$20 an hour not including the purchase price of machines and equipment. Always kicking myself.


If you think machining service doesn't pay... you should try selling kits


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## tjb (Apr 2, 2021)

ErichKeane said:


> Oh man, this is exactly why I don't even TRY to make money in my shop.
> 
> My process would have been:
> 
> ...


What kind of beer?


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## Doug Gray (Apr 2, 2021)

No beer till the chip pan is clean!


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## Winegrower (Apr 2, 2021)

This is a hobby, and this thread is a good example of why I will always keep it a hobby.   I'm happy to help friends, but my rule is they have to be present while I'm doing anything.   No "dropping off" work.


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## ErichKeane (Apr 2, 2021)

tjb said:


> What kind of beer?


I prefer a IPAs, but my favorite type of beer is "free".


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## Bi11Hudson (Apr 2, 2021)

Made me think of my first only *paying* job as a machinist. I was working full time in the mill and we needed a part. Non-magnetic. . . A rod some 24 inches long and 1/8 inch diameter. Threaded 5-40 on both ends. I suggested brass, but no it just *had* to be steel. To be ordered from England, turnaround time, (m/l) 8 weeks. It all depended on US Customs. . . We needed the part yesterday, there were no more in stock. The parts man was falling down on the job? No, he wasn't aware of the part, we were supposed to return the device to England for repair. The fallacy of a large(international) corporation buying equipment and locals having to get by with whatever they set up for parts.

Finding a non-magnetic grade of stainless was simple. The vendor only a couple-three miles away. Cut to length with a hacksaw, thread with single pointing then finishing with a die. Piece of cake, only took a couple days after work. Then the problem of getting them in the plant, I wasn't going to work for free. After all was said and done, I wished I had. 

Get a "Bid Status" from the company~~No, I'm an employee so not eligable. Got a buddy at the electronics supplier to front for me. Ship the rods strapped to a piece of 1x4 to prevent mishandling. Supply house wants "proper" packaging, no "jack leg" parts. Get the part dropped off the next visit by the salesman. Two days, I think. But it has to go through the shipping/recieving department to my division. A week, more or less before it was available for use.

Finally, two months later, the supply house gets paid. They want to pay me by check; I don't have a checking account. Do everything cash, or don't do it. The supply house won't pay me personal, it *must* be a company. Find another buddy with a "retired" corporate identity, then have him go to the bank with proof that he "is" the corporation. 

All this time I'm out the funds for the stainless rod, 8 pieces as I recall. Plus my profit, what little there was. To any and all who run a "job shop", you have my heartfelt sympathies. It takes so much time shuffling papers 'til the ink wears off that I'll never do it again. The plant is no more, and the machinist (me) is retired. If somebody needs a part, I'll make "it", one piece, singular, to help them out of a bind. But they bring the material, and the Mt Dew, and hang around while I work. And pay in cash, if required, up front before starting. Even though I now have a "corporate identity" myself and multiple checking accounts, I'll never do that again.

.


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