# Your machinist personality



## chris.trotter (Feb 10, 2018)

So another hobby of mine is aquaria (_freshwater_), and in my varied travels throughout that realm I came across '*Mr. Saltwater Tank*' who has an actually really nice way of introducing people into the saltwater aquarium world.  He calls it 'know your tank personality', and the gist of it is that by answering a questionnaire, you can properly orient yourself, set proper goals, and (_most importantly_) set proper boundaries.

Has anyone done something like this for the machinist world?  Cuz it's exactly the same depth of rabbit hole, and exactly the same expense factor (_you would not believe where saltwater aquariums can go_).

For example, my 'machinist personality' would be:
- Here's my budget, time commitment, space available, I am a hobbyist (_not income generating_)
Therefore...
- Limit yourself to 120v tools
-> Which limits you to small endmills, vises, collet sets, etc
- Limit yourself to ebay or used tools/metrology
-> Which limits me to certain surface finishes, tolerances to expect, etc
- Don't expect tolerances better than 0.001"
- etc etc etc

Just curious.  Over the years of me figuring things out, researching, dreaming, etc, I've come to learn what my 'tool personality' is and therefore set expectations accordingly.  For example, we limit our budget due to religious/social commitments - so I shouldn't have spent countless hours learning about Bridgeport knee mills - because it's not part of my machinist personality.  We don't want the expense of adding 220v power to the garage, so don't waste time looking into those tools - and recognize the limitations around what my capabilities will be.  I am big into fabrication, but I have 3 small children to raise, so I should limit my expectations/tool purchasing accordingly.

Etc.

Anyways...thoughts?  After writing this out, seems like you'd need to be in the right stage of life to honestly answer yourself...so maybe not helpful.


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## Terrywerm (Feb 10, 2018)

I think there is some validity to what you are saying, but the first thing that I learned is that our needs and especially our capabilities change as time goes on and we learn more. As our capabilities improve, our needs also increase. It's something of a snowball thing and the pit grows ever deeper as time goes on.


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## chris.trotter (Feb 10, 2018)

Haha, I think that's kinda the point of the personality test though - when you find yourself pushing against the boundaries, you revisit the test, re-evaluate, etc.  It's human nature to take things to the nth degree, even when it's not good for us, so this would be just a simple framework to guide purchasing, temper expectations (_I saw this exact phrase earlier, haha_), etc.

It's not to say that you cannot grow, it's just a way of clarifying needs.

For example, now that I know my personality, I should most definitely not go out and buy Starrett equipment.  I should not hunt down deals on 220v equipment.  I should buy X/Y/Z starter tools and begin learning on the mini-mill.  I should slow the pace of tooling purchases simply because I haven't the time to use them.  I guess high level it's a 'don't waste your resources' kinda thing?  Know when to hold 'em?

Haha, what do I know?    Curious to see how others have arrived at these answers.


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## den-den (Feb 10, 2018)

My "machinist personality" is not much different (also non-income producing hobby).  My "limits" are different, 240v single phase is fine, VFD powered by 240v single phase is also not an issue for me.  I very rarely expect better than +- 0.001 and on those occasions, I also expect some scrap.  I do buy inexpensive equipment and work around its limitations.


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## cg285 (Feb 10, 2018)

just to clarify people have both personality and temperament.
temperament is core, personality is a front
don't know how that relates to what the op is saying because i don't understand what he's saying


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## jlsmithseven (Feb 10, 2018)

One thing about this hobby is the size of your toolbox. It will start as a 3-drawer box and it might end with a 24-drawer double-stack. It's not hard to accumulate nice tools and keep them when you know they do what you need them to do every time. Good luck!


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## PHPaul (Feb 10, 2018)

Same as with all my hobbies:  I have a full blown CNC personality and a budget that will cover a broken file and a ballpeen hammer with no handle.


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## markba633csi (Feb 10, 2018)

My personality: skin flint, penny pinching, waste time fixing something instead of buying new, then buying new. Then taking back the thing I just bought because it's not as good as the one I bought 15 years ago (insert time period of your choice here if it's not long enough)
Did I pass the test? LOL
Mark


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## Eddyde (Feb 10, 2018)

240V single phase (for now) get as big and as many machines as I can afford and fit into my shop... Accuracy as necessary to fit the job... for hobby and for hire... Boundaries, what's that?


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## chris.trotter (Feb 10, 2018)

cg285 said:


> just to clarify people have both personality and temperament.
> temperament is core, personality is a front
> don't know how that relates to what the op is saying because i don't understand what he's saying


It's not meant to be a philosophical treatise, just to point out that it's really easy to fall down the rabbit hole, so follow such and such guidelines for maximum enjoyment/minimum frustration.

On the philosophy note, we (as a society) certainly do a good job promoting no boundaries or self-control.  My intent with the 'machinist personality' idea was to provide paths for newbies to best get started, and to provide seasoned folks with a way to get their bearings periodically.  If you're in the profession, it kinda doesn't apply.

Just food for thought as it turns out.


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## Kiwi Canuck (Feb 10, 2018)

Here's mine and I'm doing this exercise as it helps me refocus my efforts as I only have about 1200 good weekends left to finish everything on my list.

Perfectionist - without the skill to always deliver, so buy good tools so they are not the problem.

Untrusting - I don't usually trust trades people to fix stuff properly, so learn to do everything myself and buy good tools to do the work.

Financially Successful - so I can always afford to buy quality. (tools and equipment)

Frugal - so I always look for value and good deals when buying equipment, never pay retail.

Lazy - I always look for an easier way, or a more efficient way to do something.

Risk Taker - willing to take a risk, I'll try almost anything as long as it doesn't endanger my life or well being. 

Pack Rat - I'm an organized messy pack rat, some of my stuff is all organized, but I have areas that are just never going to get sorted, it frustrates me at times.  I love reading Garage Organization threads and envision all those new cabinets and shelving systems to have the perfectly organized shop, but then the frugal guy pipes up, "Hey wait a sec"!

Procrastinator - great at starting projects, not always good at finishing them, not sure if that's the lazy part or the frugal part of me that causes the delays.
Maybe I'm waiting for a good deal on something or the perfectionist shows up and demands things be done differently, so I stop and regroup until I find a way forward that pleases the perfectionist and the lazy guy as well.

 That's about all I got for now.

David


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## 682bear (Feb 10, 2018)

Kiwi Canuck said:


> Here's mine and I'm doing this exercise as it helps me refocus my efforts as I only have about 1200 good weekends left to finish everything on my list.
> 
> Perfectionist - without the skill to always deliver, so buy good tools so they are not the problem.
> 
> ...


You just described me... to a 'T'... lol

Bear


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## higgite (Feb 11, 2018)

I’m proud to say that I do have a machinist’s personality. It’s one of my favorites, too.

Tom


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## BROCKWOOD (Feb 11, 2018)

I always invested a portion of my income as an industrial mechanic in tools (9%). Some of the side work I took on paid mostly for tools. Those were my poor days & I was counting pennies as I was just starting out with a wife & daughter. So, I get exactly what Chris.Trotter is saying. Now-a-days, collecting machine equipment is not really any different. Although kids are grown & raising their own children, I find myself still justifying each purchase. There is always a current goal that requires something I don't have. Back to planning. I once described it to a friend that machine work requires making a tool to make a tool to make the tool you needed in the 1st place. LOL But, this is great for organizing thoughts & planning! I love it.


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## Fabrickator (Feb 11, 2018)

I want larger equipment and tooling like I used in the shops I worked at.  But I bought a mini mill and moderate size lathe because on my limited space (realistic) I'm constantly wishing more room (frustrated).  But eventually having two of each machine is always a good thing (spoiled).

I'm a dreamer, designer and tenacious perfectionist.  That's what my wife calls me.  My boss at the racing shop called me a Machine because I made him a lot of money , $1 to 2 K per day.


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## Downunder Bob (Feb 11, 2018)

Today my good lady came out to the shop and asked what I was doing, I replied making a tool, she replied a tool for what, I said a tool that will help me make a tool so that I can make the thing or parts I want. She said why don't you just buy the thing you want, I replied where's the fun in that. She shook her head and said you guys say we women are weird, and she left the shop and left me in piece to continue having fun.

She doesn't understand, but she does try to be undertsanding about it.  Now that she is also retired, ive told her she needs to get a hobby, but she doesn't get it, perhaps in time she will.


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## cathead (Feb 11, 2018)

Apparently I am a borderline skinflint but prefer thinking of myself as frugal.  There is just something
gratifying to go to a store and look at something and then going home and making it.  I even peruse
E-bay for ideas at times......  I have used my caliper in conjuction with my computer screen to
get the scale of parts at times.   Also I realize there is no such thing as perfection since in physics,
a straight line really isn't straight.  That way one can concentrate on form and functionality instead
of concentrating on perfection that does not exist.  My shop is cluttered but my machines are clean
and well oiled and are much better machines now than when I got them.

My psychological category?


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## chris.trotter (Feb 11, 2018)

cathead said:


> My psychological category?


LOL!  Category:  *I Am A *_*Dancing Banana*_

Well done, sir, bravo.

Love where you guys took this, haha, good stuff.  Kinda made apparent that the real starting point is 'who are you'.  Seems like some possible answers (_in this context_) are: (_with YouTube celebrity exemplar!_)
- professional machinist/tool-die who also has a home machine shop _(Stefan Gotteswinter, Robrenz, Abom79, Oxtools, etc etc etc_)
- engineering/manufacturing trade, and has a home machine shop as primary hobby (_ThisOldTony_)
- professional fabricator, with a machine shop (_i.e. welding, woodworking, metalworking, etc - not just machine work_) (_Jimmy DiResta_)
- white collar job (i.e. no involvement with machining/fabrication as a vocation), but only (_or, primary, by time/money_) hobby is machining (_uh...?_)
- white collar job, machining is one of many hobbies (_can't think of example, but this is where I sit_)

(_personal side note: I find it amusing how easily I could populate the first category's examples, but struggled afterward - i.e. my YouTube palate is heavily weighted towards professional machinists - lol_)

How you fit in to that spectrum would give you a starting point for the exercise, and really if you're not in the last 2-3 categories, this exercise has perhaps less value, well, at least from the perspective of 'building a home machine shop'.  If you get into 'life balance', those kinds of exercises benefit everyone.


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## Bill Gruby (Feb 11, 2018)

Cathead, you are in your own world, you are priceless. LOL

"Billy G"


 PS---I don't have one.  LOL


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## British Steel (Feb 11, 2018)

I think I'll join in with this...

240v single-phase, all you get in the UK in "domestic" settings unless you're unlucky enough to have electric heating in a home built in the 50s when nuclear power was going to be "too cheap to meter".

7.5 HP / 5KW rotary convertor (almost finished!) for the New Old Mill (2 tons of it)
Hacked 415v 5HP VFD run from 240v to power 2 tons of 50's toolroom lathe with a 3-speed 3HP motor


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## cathead (Feb 11, 2018)

This may be true:

If you go to a psychologist and he asks you if you think you are crazy, the best answer is YES.
If you answer NO he will think you are crazy....


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## magicniner (Feb 11, 2018)

I bought a lathe with 31" between centres at a point when the longest job I needed to do was 6", one consequence of this decision is that I still have the same lathe over 20 years later and it is still meeting my needs. 
If I had followed a guide to my "Machining Personality" I would probably have ended up spending more than four times the money over those 20 years in changing machines to meet my changing needs and still not have the quality of my current lathe.


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## JPigg55 (Feb 11, 2018)

I think mine would be: *"An means to an end"*
A couple things got me into machining as a hobby.
1. My father was a machinist (many years gone now).
2. I remember enjoying it in High School shop class.
3. A few years back, I had a part fall off a farm tractor I had, basically a double shouldered pin. I priced a replacement...$75 !!!!
I remember thinking, if only I had a piece of metal and a lathe, I could make it for under $10.
I was fast approaching the age where I could retire and remembered a time that there were a half dozen small machine shops in my area where I could have parts made/repaired. Now there are none.
I also consider myself as a bit of a backyard/garage inventor. I've came across a few examples in my hobbies and other related endeavors, instances where I could make minor improvements, make it myself for a lot less money, make it to sell, etc....
I initially considered just using *"eMachineshop.com"*, but ended up shopping around a buying equipment at a price that I figured I could easily get my money back if I decided I didn't want to do it anymore.
Then, as Terry said, the slippery slope hit. The more ideas I had, the more stuff I wanted.


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## mikey (Feb 11, 2018)

Chris, sorry to say this but I'm afraid your personality has very little to do with the fact that hobby machining is a big HOLE with its own gravity. You think that typing yourself will provide some rational approach but it won't help, brother. Hobby machining doesn't care if you're rich or poor or have bills to pay or food to buy. It will work on your mind and cause you to make decisions that a rational person would not make. The minute you find yourself saying, "I can make that!", you're done. I guarantee you that to make that thing, you will need to make or buy a tool you do not have and that tool will cost three times what the thing would have cost you to buy it. That won't deter you because you'll rationalize it by saying, "Yeah, but I can make a thousand of the thing anytime I want!", forgetting that the cost of the materials alone would not justify making even one of them.

What's worse, Hobby machining will cause you to Covet! Yes, I said it. It will cause you to covet stuff. Do you honestly believe that a HF digital caliper will suffice when you can buy a Brown & Sharpe dial caliper for only ten times the price? Despite the fact that the quality of the caliper has nothing to do with your ability to machine accurately, you will somehow equate it with the size of your man parts. You may be able to resist it for a while but you won't be able to resist it all - drills, chucks, collet chucks and so on and on and on ...

You think this is said in jest, right? That's because you are a newbie. Those of us who are looking back can't even make out the glimmer of where the hole entrance was! Anyone who says this is at all untrue is in denial. You are warned - the only way to stay out of the hole is to never get close to it in the first place. 

A hobby machinist is always growing, always learning. He/she is one of the most resourceful, knowledgeable and self-reliant of folks and it is this, the potential for growth, that is the source of the Hole's gravity. The common hobby machinist isn't in this for money; its for himself and the satisfaction of becoming more than he was, and you can take that to the bank (where you have to go anyway to withdraw the money for your new rotary table)!


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## chris.trotter (Feb 11, 2018)

Surely people have budgets?  And stick to them else risk financial ruin?  And surely people have the choice of self-control or lawless chaos?  And people most definitely have the choice between acceding to temptation or not!

Haha, but that's not the point of this idea - it's purely a way to best ease people into a new thing.

Selfishly, I'm currently dealing with 'so what next', and the only threads (seemingly anywhere) about "tool path for the newbie" generally involve "you need every tool ever so buy them all".  For example, I have a budget for 2018 to buy tools and materials.  I cannot buy everything, so what should I buy?  My first project aims to be a t-nut for my QTCP, so I probably need a set of parallels, perhaps the correct collet to hold a tap?

Like it is too easy to say 'here, buy this list' - can the hobby advance to the point where you can say "I have this, this, and that projects lined up - what tools will I need?  what tools are nice-to-haves?".  I am presuming this is called "night school machinist courses".  

I think this thread has highlighted that, if nothing else: "This is a hard thing to figure out, because there are a million ways to skin a cat."


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## mikey (Feb 11, 2018)

chris.trotter said:


> Surely people have budgets?  And stick to them else risk financial ruin?  And surely people have the choice of self-control or lawless chaos?  And people most definitely have the choice between acceding to temptation or not!



You mean amongst hobby machinists? No, not really. Well, we have budgets but we tend to ignore them as a general rule or we stretch out the budget's time frame. We sometimes delay gratification until we find the thing we want at a decent price but it is never off our radar. Self-control is a delusion, Chris. You have not been in this hobby long enough to understand that while it might seem to you that I was joking ... I was not! Wait. Come back to this thread in five years and tell us what you think. Thinking yourself a man of self control in this hobby is what is commonly known as Delusions of Grandeur!

You say, "_For example, I have a budget for 2018 to buy tools and materials.  I cannot buy everything, so what should I buy?_" Well, you buy what you can afford this year and make a list so that next year you get more stuff and covet more stuff and it goes on and on. Sort of self-proving, don't you think?


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## magicniner (Feb 11, 2018)

I always suggest that prospective lathe and mill owners to think ahead a bit and consider if they might want to work on larger projects in the foreseeable future as, long term, an undersized machine will likely end up costing you more when you find you have to sell it then buy a bigger one. 

Once you have your machines there is no need to buy anything not required for your current projects, in fact, if on a budget, you'd be a mug to buy things you don't need until you have completed all the projects you have planned. 

Having met your "Needs" first, then address your "Wants" in any order that makes sense to you


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## JPigg55 (Feb 11, 2018)

magicniner said:


> Having met your "Needs" first, then address your "Wants" in any order that makes sense to you


I totally agree...*I NEED and WANT everything !!!!!*


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## chris.trotter (Feb 11, 2018)

mikey said:


> Self-control is a delusion, Chris.
> 
> Well, you buy what you can afford this year and make a list so that next year you get more stuff and covet more stuff and it goes on and on. Sort of self-proving, don't you think?


As humans, self-control under our own power and will, yes, I agree with that.  As for 'covet' - I would debate the use of that word here.  That implies unbridled selfishness, and something that is in control of us.  Perhaps I am in the weeds here, but if I'm ensuring my commitments are met, social responsibilities covered, and am still free for generosity - does covet come into the picture?  I'm not a drug addict pawning my children here...

Further, this problem is one of human nature, and has so little to do with machining specifically.  (race cars, anyone?)



magicniner said:


> I always suggest that prospective lathe and mill owners to think ahead a bit and consider if they might want to work on larger projects in the foreseeable future as, long term, an undersized machine will likely end up costing you more when you find you have to sell it then buy a bigger one.
> 
> Once you have your machines there is no need to buy anything not required for your current projects, in fact, if on a budget, you'd be a mug to buy things you don't need until you have completed all the projects you have planned.
> 
> Having met your "Needs" first, then address your "Wants" in any order that makes sense to you


Yeah, so this is kinda the thought.  "needs" is subjective (as this thread is demonstrating).  Haha, TBH, this is obviously some kinda holy war, so maybe best to let the thread die.


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## dlane (Feb 11, 2018)

Fabricator here, machining is part of it


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## mikey (Feb 11, 2018)

chris.trotter said:


> As humans, self-control under our own power and will, yes, I agree with that.  As for 'covet' - I would debate the use of that word here.  That implies unbridled selfishness, and something that is in control of us.  Perhaps I am in the weeds here, but if I'm ensuring my commitments are met, social responsibilities covered, and am still free for generosity - does covet come into the picture?  I'm not a drug addict pawning my children here...



Don't take things too seriously, Chris. While my posts here are tongue in cheek, there is enough truth in it that most of us recognize it. You will, too, one day ...


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## BROCKWOOD (Feb 11, 2018)

Wow! An annual budget for a hobby. With an attitude like that, you could find yourself in business making play in work. With plenty of work on my plate: I choose to turn work into play. To that end, I do try to only buy what is needed for the next project with an eye toward future needs. The 31" lathe where a 6" would only work for a short time is a good example. When I dove into machining, I knew I needed a tight little mill to make the bass guitar bridges I want (but nobody makes). Within my ability at the time, & based purely on not knowing anything about specific machines, I bought a combination lathe / mill from Grizzly.  Once sufficiently outfitted to make my 1st bass bridge, I couldn't help but show off my shiny new bridge. The answer to viewers question of how long did it take to make it???? So, I bought a real mill. This story is only just beginning! 

Back on topic: I save for what I need - but, when I have extra....I get what I want!!! (Hey that is for future projects right).


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## C-Bag (Feb 11, 2018)

mikey said:


> Don't take things too seriously, Chris. While my posts here are tongue in cheek, there is enough truth in it that most of us recognize it. You will, too, one day ...



+1 Mikey. I think I can see what Chris was getting at, but Mikey and so many others here are nailing it. This surprises me because I got into this because it was the next step in the 30yr evolution of what I do and am surprised at the similar experience. 

 I tried to get by with what I had but it was either evolve or bail. It did help I had a lot of tools from being a mechanic, but machining is another bag. I've always loved making more than fixing. So I did a somewhat parallel to the original criteria and thought about the parts I needed to make. A mini mill and 7x12 lathe could do it. So I went the next one up, RF30 mill and 9x20 lathe. Both used and a little less for both than a HF MILL/Drill new.

This has opened up whole new horizons that no amount of research, forum crawling, and strategizing could have foretold. In some ways it's filled in the gaps in my skills as I learned just what was needed to be a mech, engine machinist and a fabricator/welder. But it's taken down those barriers that only being a machinist could get through. I'm also stunned by the amount of creativity it takes to figure out everything from the design, material, layout, metrology, setup and execution. Some would call it an addiction but the satisfaction of I couldn't make that before, and now I can is pretty powerful. And it drives me to the next level.


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## higgite (Feb 11, 2018)

Hobby? Budget? Self-control? All in the same sentence?? Muwahahahaha!! 

Yes, I have a budget. It's in the bookcase alongside other works of fiction. 

Tom


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## EmilioG (Feb 11, 2018)

Budget? What's that? Mikey and others are right. Machining and making things is a black hole. Resistance is futile.


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## Tony Wells (Feb 11, 2018)

Resistance is _not _futile;  Ω=V/I


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## mikey (Feb 12, 2018)

C-Bag said:


> +1 Mikey. I think I can see what Chris was getting at, but Mikey and so many others here are nailing it. This surprises me because I got into this because it was the next step in the 30yr evolution of what I do and am surprised at the similar experience.
> 
> I tried to get by with what I had but it was either evolve or bail. It did help I had a lot of tools from being a mechanic, but machining is another bag. I've always loved making more than fixing. So I did a somewhat parallel to the original criteria and thought about the parts I needed to make. A mini mill and 7x12 lathe could do it. So I went the next one up, RF30 mill and 9x20 lathe. Both used and a little less for both than a HF MILL/Drill new.
> 
> This has opened up whole new horizons that no amount of research, forum crawling, and strategizing could have foretold. In some ways it's filled in the gaps in my skills as I learned just what was needed to be a mech, engine machinist and a fabricator/welder. But* it's taken down those barriers that only being a machinist could get through.* I'm also stunned by the amount of creativity it takes to figure out everything from the design, material, layout, metrology, setup and execution. Some would call it an addiction but* the satisfaction of I couldn't make that before, and now I can is pretty powerful*. *And it drives me to the next level.*



Very well said, C-Bag!


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## chris.trotter (Feb 12, 2018)

Thanks guys, I understand your position.  Mikey, I'll take you up on that 5-year thing.  

The key really is how we take fulfillment out of this life, and for me, hobbies are just avenues to express my curiosity/awe of creation - but they do not own me or master me.  I know the position of 'through Jesus, I have hope' is unpopular these days - but it is the rock on which my self-control stands.

The thread's intent was not to force people to stick to one thing forever, or trap people into a locked persona.  It was to provide a framework for establishing boundaries, plus a guide map for said boundaries.  And as with all frameworks - they are helpful, but not the last word.  They are a means for orienting oneself - and who only ever looks at a map once?  We must orient ourselves periodically - we change, the world changes around us - and so must our boundaries change.  Perhaps today I am a pure hobbyist.  Perhaps next year my vocation's industry collapses and manufacturing/production is something I will move into.  I do not know!  But now that I have established boundaries for 2018 at least, I can _effectively_ use the resources I have to maximize that curiosity/awe!

Hope that helps clarify...


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## Downunder Bob (Feb 12, 2018)

This is an amazing discussion.  I think I have an evolving peronality, or is that revovling. I started out as a Fitter & Turner / Toolmaker apprentice some 57 years ago. I'm now retired for the third time about 7 years ago I quiot the trade about a year fater I qualified, why? I loved the work, but the pay was not good. so I became a long Haul truck driver. Sydney to Perth, 4000km about 2,500m, good pay about 3 times as much. After a couple of years I got fed up with that, and began training as a Marine Engineer, which got me back on the tools and also paid quite well.

Some of my greatest acheivements on a lathe or milling machine were while the ship was at sea and some vital component had failed and we didn't have a spare so I made a new one.

Yes I do have the skill to make very accurate and detailed pieces, but sadly, most of the time, I'm a good enough will do, kind of guy, as that was how it had to be for most of my working life. It has become a habit. And yes, I'm lazy. i'm also getting tired.

After a few years of retirement I bagan to get bored, and I finally decided to get a lathe. So, here I am another Hobby Machinist who often has the conlict of can I afford it, do I need it is it good enough or should I get a better one. The result is thus far I have a fairly decent 12 x 16 Taiwanese lathe and a nice taiwanese horizontal band saw 5"x5", which I'm modifying to also operate in the vertical mode, A cheap rubbish Chinese bench drill press. and abunch of cordless drills etc. A treasured Moore & Write 1" mic, from my apprenticeship days reads in 0.0001", a set of chinese mics to 6" not bad quality and they will do. 2 x 6" electronic vernier calipers both chinese unbranded, one is over 20 years old and the other is about a year old they both work quite well and with auto off do not chew up batteries. I also have a collection of carbide insert lathe tools some milling cutters and arbors, in anticipation of the right job. Recently aquired an Alotris BXA QCTP and finished machining the head for the T bolt today, but haven't had time to give it a test run.


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## Fabrickator (Feb 12, 2018)

My tool buying philosophy is: If you can't make the tool, buy what you need to do complete the project.  If you'll think that you'll only use it once or twice, inexpensive tools are usually good enough. 

When it comes to tooling, I usually buy mid-quality like Hertel or sometimes Interstate. You don't need a top quality end mill unless you're running a real job shop where you spend days on end punching out a parts order and use flood coolant. Then, once they get a little dull, you send them out to be sharpened by a professional.


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## C-Bag (Feb 12, 2018)

There is another facet to this and for me it's this forum. I bumbled onto this forum when I adopted an old Atlas 7b shaper. It needed a starter cap and this was the only place on the whole World Wide Web that mentioned the exact cap needed. I had crawled several other machining forums and over and over it just reminded me of some of the places I'd worked. New guys were FNG's who had to somehow navigate into acceptance by not drawing ire of the old hands. Not here, the vibe was different. 

I was needing a new forum because the one I was on had turned into a clickbait personality contest by the mod and I wasn't going to provide clickbait for "awards" anymore. 

Since most of what I'm doing is machining and I'm doing it all by virtual I needed a place where your tools and your present skill were not grounds for a mugging by the old hands and this seemed like the place. I've jumped a lot of jobs in my life and only had a couple that had that rare combo of respect and challenge along with the actual support to get the job done. For now this place feels like that to me.


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## EmilioG (Feb 12, 2018)

Covet;  The word can have two meanings;
verb (used with object)
1.
to desire wrongfully, inordinately, or without due regard for the rightsof others:
to covet another's property.
2.
to wish for, especially eagerly:
He won the prize they all coveted.
verb (used without object)
3.
to have an inordinate or wrongful desire.

I think we fall in to # 2.,  I hope.


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## cg285 (Feb 12, 2018)

chris.trotter said:


> It's not meant to be a philosophical treatise, just to point out that it's really easy to fall down the rabbit hole, so follow such and such guidelines for maximum enjoyment/minimum frustration.
> 
> On the philosophy note, we (as a society) certainly do a good job promoting no boundaries or self-control.  My intent with the 'machinist personality' idea was to provide paths for newbies to best get started, and to provide seasoned folks with a way to get their bearings periodically.  If you're in the profession, it kinda doesn't apply.
> 
> Just food for thought as it turns out.



path for newbies, seasoned bearings. way over my head. i think i'll have a beer


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## PHPaul (Feb 12, 2018)

I posted a flippant (tho accurate...) answer earlier.

Having read through the responses since then I think I owe the OP a somewhat more serious answer.

Plato said "The unexamined life is not worth living."  I heartily disagree.  

If it works for you, great, but it's not for me.  I know too many people who suck all the joy out of life by minutely examining every decision, action or random event in life.  You can be a responsible adult without a being neurotic about it.  I'm 67 years old.  My bills are paid, my family is clothed and fed, my retirement is funded.  

 I tend to dive into a hobby, spend a considerable chunk of money on it and then move on to something else.  I've been through photography, building computers, model railroading, refurbishing antique tractors and rebuilding and riding old motorcycles.  I've thoroughly enjoyed each of them, collected more tools and learned new skills that have come in handy in many other areas.  At the moment, it's playing with a lathe and I suspect that if I can scrape together the money it'll expand to include a small mill.

Some may consider the way I approach my hobbies and disposing of my disposable income impulsive or frivolous.   I consider it living in the moment and having as much fun as I can in the time I have left.


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## Dredb (Feb 12, 2018)

My wife thinks I spend my time gloating over my collection of tools. She told me this, she was not joking.
I resolved to gloat quietly in future.


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## RandyM (Feb 13, 2018)

Dredb said:


> My wife thinks I spend my time gloating over my collection of tools. She told me this, she was not joking.
> I resolved to gloat quietly in future.



Is it gloating or does she just not understand what makes your life a happy one? I think some people get jealous when they see other people happy.

On another note. Some people also see the sharing and posting of ones' tools, workshop, projects, and machines on this forum as bragging. I feel that is as far from the truth as one can get. This is a place of fun, sharing, and enjoyment. I am really glad we have members here that don't let things like that bother them and come here and enjoy this forum. Keep up the good work everyone. I am having way to much fun.


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## C-Bag (Feb 13, 2018)

Hmmm, gloating would not be how I describe my time in the shop. My wife is a psychologist and appreciates my involvement in my shop. She doesn't always understand what I'm doing but is amazed when I show her something I've made or a tool/jig that I've come up with. She is often the one who tells me about sales and then dives in looking for cool stuff. She just calls my time spent amongst the tools as "mill'anda'lathe'n" because she she can't keep straight what they do. It makes her happy that I'm happy. Same with my music. It's far more productive and mentally stimulating than passively watching tv and since I don't drink or smoke it's a healthier vice. I also am extreme frugal and almost never buy anything new so she's almost always in on the purchase and the first words out of her mouth are " what would do with this, and how often would you use it?" The process of telling her what I see using it for and the projects I see needing it for, along with the price are usually enough to ground me enough to get real and not let my TAS (tool acqusisiton syndrome) get the better of me. It also means I don't have to ask forgiveness later


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