# New to TIG and bought my first argon bottle today.  How'd I do?



## pestilence (Dec 28, 2013)

I've been playing with a Harbor Frieght $99 special flux core rig for a couple years and just got a new AHP Alpha TIG 200DX a couple weeks ago, but haven't used it yet.   That's the sum of my welding experience. 

I met a man at a truck stop today and bought a bottle of argon about 5 feet tall and 10-12" in diameter from him for $165. I did a little homework first and I'm sure the bottle is an owner bottle and it was last inspected in 2011. It has freshish paint and the valve safety cap.

He said it's a 220 cf bottle and it's full. I know I got a good deal, but I'm wondering how good a deal. I'm also wondering what the true capacity is and how much I can expect to pay for a refill.

Also, I transported it home in the back of my truck lying down against the front of the bed with the neck facing the tailgate. I threw a ratchet strap around the neck to suck it diagonally into the corner of the bed and then two more straps at the base and the neck to suck it against the passenger side wheel well. Is that a safe enough way to move it around, or is there anything more I could have done? It didn't shift at all on the way home.

Thanks in advance for any info.


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## Ray C (Dec 29, 2013)

Yes, that's a good price and it's fine to lay an argon tank on it's side as long as the valve protector cap is in place (unlike acetylene which you must always have upright).

That's a good price for a 220.  They're about $300 around here.  Keep in mind, there are some local regulations on filling compressed gas and some places will only fill it to 180.  My tanks are that size and cost $65 to refill.  Also, you may need a receipt of ownership to get it refilled.  -All depends on the policy of the shop you're working with.  Some will not refill customer-owned tanks w/o a receipt, some will only exchange and not return the same bottle etc...  The rules are all over the place. 

FWIW, I rent my tanks for $3/month.  I have two argon, one oxygen, one CO2 and one helium -and I prefer the convenience of just dropping it off and grabbing a fresh one.  Inspection fees here are $75 per tank every 5 years (local regulation).



Ray




pestilence said:


> I've been playing with a Harbor Frieght $99 special flux core rig for a couple years and just got a new AHP Alpha TIG 200DX a couple weeks ago, but haven't used it yet.   That's the sum of my welding experience.
> 
> I met a man at a truck stop today and bought a bottle of argon about 5 feet tall and 10-12" in diameter from him for $165. I did a little homework first and I'm sure the bottle is an owner bottle and it was last inspected in 2011. It has freshish paint and the valve safety cap.
> 
> ...


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## pestilence (Dec 29, 2013)

Good to know, thanks.  I spoke briefly with a local place about refill policies and I think I'm good to go in that regard.  I don't mind swapping it out when it goes empty.  I just didn't know what to expect price wise and they were closed by the time I'd talked to the guy.  From what I've learned so far, this tank should last me quite a while at the rate I expect to use it.


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## DAN_IN_MN (Dec 29, 2013)

The guy you bought it from.  Did he have other things for sale?  

I find it kind of interesting.....maybe a little fishy....

Nice deal BTW!


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## pestilence (Dec 29, 2013)

DAN_IN_MN said:


> The guy you bought it from.  Did he have other things for sale?
> 
> I find it kind of interesting.....maybe a little fishy....
> 
> Nice deal BTW!



  It was just your typical Craigslist deal.  I'm used to that sort of thing.  I also spend a lot of time lurking around backpage.com looking for deals on guns.  Buying scary black semi-auto rifles in parking lots is the most fun


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## Ray C (Dec 29, 2013)

pestilence said:


> ..... From what I've learned so far, this tank should last me quite a while at the rate I expect to use it.



LOL.  Man, are you in for a surprise...  Until you get your welding hat on right, that first tank or two could go pretty fast hew:.   Anyhow, with TIG welding, I estimate getting about 16-17 hours on a tank -and I tend to hold close under no-wind conditions and use the smallest cup I can get away with.  I don't often use TIG for big pieces and you can get away with really being stingy on the gas. 


Ray


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## DAN_IN_MN (Dec 29, 2013)

pestilence said:


> It was just your typical Craigslist deal.  I'm used to that sort of thing.  I also spend a lot of time lurking around backpage.com looking for deals on guns.  Buying scary black semi-auto rifles in parking lots is the most fun




OH!  I was thinking that you stopped in the truck stop and this guy was sitting there!  

It was a planned meeting!  LoL!


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## RWL (Dec 29, 2013)

Ray C said:


> Yes, that's a good price and it's fine to lay an argon tank on it's side as long as the valve protector cap is in place (unlike acetylene which you must always have upright).
> 
> Ray



I'm commenting so that a myth isn't inadvertently perpetuated.   You can transport acetylene on its side if necessary but it is not ideal.  Unlike other gas cylinders they have a mixture of some sort of filler and acetone to stabilize the acetylene.  If you open the cylinder immediately after having it on its side, it will spit out acetone, potentially harming parts in the regulator.  I'm not sure if the filler (sand?) can get out and clog up the shutoff valve.  My instructor (a long time ago) told us that if you wait an hour after it's upright you won't have problems.  That said though, many (most?) of us use B size tanks which will usually stand upright in a pickup truck or car.

Good buy on the argon.  As long as you can get it refilled where you live, it was a substantial savings.


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## Rbeckett (Dec 29, 2013)

RWL  is absolutely correct.  If you lay an Acety cylinder on it's side you must allow it time to settle to prevent the solvent from getting into your regulator and damaging the diaphragm.  Most modern Acety tanks have cork in them to keep the solvent from sloshing .  The acetylene is dissolved in the solvent which is the reason for the 1/7 rule.  The gas must come out of the solution and it can only come so quick, if you exceed the rate you will get sputtering and irregular flame on your torch.  If you experience this you need to set up a manifold to increase your available CFM to support the larger requirement for fuel gas.  Increasing the pressure is both unsafe and ineffective.  Remember that acetylene is unstable above 12-15 PSI so keep an eye on your pressures and adjust accordingly.  The way you transported that cylinder also looked fine.  As long as the bottle could not roll or shift and the valve was protected with the cover you did just fine.  Just remember to chain or otherwise restrain all bottles whether in use or not to prevent falling over.  Safety caps should be in place at all times except when actually using the equipment.  A few simple safety rules and you can safely do a lot of different things in your shop with no fear of causing a disaster...

Bob


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## pestilence (Dec 29, 2013)

I never knew that about acetylene.  Very good to know.  I have a little b tank turbo torch air-acetyline rig I also got off craigslist and I didn't do much research before I bought that.


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## moptracker (Dec 30, 2013)

A friend of mine cut the side out of an old acetylene tank and it was full of card board.


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## markknx (Dec 31, 2013)

RWL said:


> I'm commenting so that a myth isn't inadvertently perpetuated.   You can transport acetylene on its side if necessary but it is not ideal.  Unlike other gas cylinders they have a mixture of some sort of filler and acetone to stabilize the acetylene.  If you open the cylinder immediately after having it on its side, it will spit out acetone, potentially harming parts in the regulator.  I'm not sure if the filler (sand?) can get out and clog up the shutoff valve.  My instructor (a long time ago) told us that if you wait an hour after it's upright you won't have problems.  That said though, many (most?) of us use B size tanks which will usually stand upright in a pickup truck or car.Good buy on the argon.  As long as you can get it refilled where you live, it was a substantial savings.


acetone is the stablizer, there is also a pores core. I think it is a longer time before use. I try for 12 hours. The acetone eats the packing and seals in the torch head and gages. This is what we were thought by the instructor, and a prax air rep. while I was an apprentice.


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## psychodelicdan (Dec 31, 2013)

I was always taught a one to one thing with the acetylene. If its laid down for a hour, you should  stand it up for the same. Never have figured out how long to stand that cylinder you found laying in the back of that truck you haven't used for six mounts. 


Master of unfinished projects


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## RWL (Dec 31, 2013)

moptracker said:


> A friend of mine cut the side out of an old acetylene tank and it was full of card board.



That's so unusual that it invites the question why?  I'd do something like that myself to find out what's inside, but why do it to something useful.  Wouldn't the dealer exchange the cylinder?  Also, how did he do the cutting?


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## Ridgerunner (Dec 31, 2013)

pestilence said:


> I'm also wondering what the true capacity is and how much I can expect to pay for a refill.



For me to fill up my bottle of Argon for my home shop tig welder, it's $90.00.    If I take it to work, and exchange it out with the other empties, is only $35.00. Quantity discount I guess, but wow, what a way to gouge/screw the little guy.


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## The_Crusher (Jan 2, 2014)

I just used to take mine to work and exchange it....lol! We had so darn many of them and it is the same as they used so no one would ever notice. I don't know what size you call it, but it is big! 5' at least and large diameter. I have the next size down for my portable rig, oxy, acetylene, Argon/helium mix, argon, and argon/co2 mix. Then my home boy Oxy acetylene tanks are the smaller as well. I also have a really small NOS steal tank...I bought it for 5.00 at a yard sale as a novelty.


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## Scruffy (Jan 2, 2014)

Friend of mine owns a salvage yard.  Over the years I would hate to guess how many. Oxy.  Acc.  Propane. Tanks I've. Seen them. Cut..  It sometimes costs more to have a tank decertified than to replace it.

You would not believe how much sand and gritty **** can be in a 1000 gallon propane tank.

They have to be cut before they can go to the steel mill.

Scruffy


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## design62 (Jan 26, 2014)

Its ok to transfer Argon laying down. depending on what material you are  welding would determine what to do. For steel,stainless set your welder  DC negative. one amp per thousand thickness of material except  stainless steel. This is a rule of thump setting. Stainless would be  around 1/3 less on the amps. Aluminum would be AC setting. I suggest you  look at some videos on "You Tube" and start from there.

Thanks in advance for any info.


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## TOOLMASTER (Jan 27, 2014)

http://www.tpub.com/steelworker1/14250_files/image076.jpg


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## markknx (Jan 28, 2014)

This link should help clear up some of the talk about Acetylene

http://toolboxtopics.com/Gen Industry/Using and Storing Acetylene Gas.htm


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