# Recommendation for which Asian Lathe to buy.



## rajhliux

Anyone have any recommendation which metal lathe is a good one from alibaba or what not?

Applications that I'll be using the lathe for:
-Precision gears
-Precision water connector with threads of all kinds (Both American and British)
-Quick Connectors
-Hydraulics

Note: I do not want to play with the lathe gearing system just to change simple threading. The lathe machine needs to have an automatic gearing system to change threading pitch.

Budget: $1,600.

Thanks for any recommendations!


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## rajhliux

Anyone have any recommendation which metal lathe is a good one from alibaba or what not?

Applications that I'll be using the lathe for:
-Precision gears
-Precision water connector with threads of all kinds (Both American and British)
-Quick Connectors
-Hydraulics

Note: I do not want to play with the lathe gearing system just to change simple threading. The lathe machine needs to have an automatic gearing system to change threading pitch. I'm not that person that likes to open the box and touch oily gears... 

Lathe Size: Benchtop type.

Edit:
Budget: $5K.

Thanks for any insights!


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## tazzat

You only need to post one time..


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## rajhliux

Alright


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## macardoso

You're about to get a lot of replies suggesting you stay away from Alibaba machinery. The import costs will be much higher than you expect. Also don't forget to put a price on service and availability of spare parts. Something *will *be broken on any machine you buy. You *will *break something yourself in the first year or two. How will these issues be resolved? Finally, many overseas machines have metric threads and gears. That might not be an issue for the rest of the world, but I would go nuts trying to use a metric lathe.

You failed to mention the size of lathe you need for the work. small gears and fittings might be fine on a 10" lathe, but you'll be changing gears. A 12-14" lathe will have better gearbox options and will be much more rigid in a cut but will weigh and cost more. If you are doing larger work, or want to take heavier cuts, then you need a bigger lathe.

I'm worried about your budget...

$1600 gets you a small hobby lathe (bit bigger than a toy) with no tooling. 

$2500 gets you a medium sized quality lathe with basic tooling

$4000 gets you a nice 12" lathe (first chance at a totally enclosed gearbox)

$6000 gets you a nice 14" lathe (Totally enclosed gearbox)

If you haven't collected measuring instruments, cutting tools and accessories yet, expect to double your purchase price - especially on the smaller machines. You'll need some basic quality measuring instruments, probably a quick change tool post (some higher end lathes will come with one), and some cutting tools and holders (including drill chucks and centers).

Do you have a maximum size and weight restriction?

If you are sticking to $1600, check out the entry level lathes from Grizzly.com. That are decent machines at import prices. They stock spare parts for decades and have great service. If you are willing to flex on the budget, then next recommendation you will get is Precision Matthews. There are a ton of happy owners of their machines on here and the service and quality is top notch.









						Lathes - Metalworking
					

Grizzly Industrial, Inc. is a national retail and internet company providing a wide variety of high-quality woodworking and metalworking machinery, power tools, hand tools and accessories.  By selling directly to end users we provide the best quality products at the best price to professionals...




					www.grizzly.com
				






			https://www.precisionmatthews.com/product-category/lathes/


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## tq60

1600 budget means game over

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## rajhliux

macardoso said:


> You're about to get a lot of replies suggesting you stay away from Alibaba machinery. The import costs will be much higher than you expect. Also don't forget to put a price on service and availability of spare parts. Something *will *be broken on any machine you buy. You *will *break something yourself in the first year or two. How will these issues be resolved? Finally, many overseas machines have metric threads and gears. That might not be an issue for the rest of the world, but I would go nuts trying to use a metric lathe.
> 
> You failed to mention the size of lathe you need for the work. small gears and fittings might be fine on a 10" lathe, but you'll be changing gears. A 12-14" lathe will have better gearbox options and will be much more rigid in a cut but will weigh and cost more. If you are doing larger work, or want to take heavier cuts, then you need a bigger lathe.
> 
> I'm worried about your budget...
> 
> $1600 gets you a small hobby lathe (bit bigger than a toy) with no tooling.
> 
> $2500 gets you a medium sized quality lathe with basic tooling
> 
> $4000 gets you a nice 12" lathe (first chance at a totally enclosed gearbox)
> 
> $6000 gets you a nice 14" lathe (Totally enclosed gearbox)
> 
> If you haven't collected measuring instruments, cutting tools and accessories yet, expect to double your purchase price - especially on the smaller machines. You'll need some basic quality measuring instruments, probably a quick change tool post (some higher end lathes will come with one), and some cutting tools and holders (including drill chucks and centers).
> 
> Do you have a maximum size and weight restriction?
> 
> If you are sticking to $1600, check out the entry level lathes from Grizzly.com. That are decent machines at import prices. They stock spare parts for decades and have great service. If you are willing to flex on the budget, then next recommendation you will get is Precision Matthews. There are a ton of happy owners of their machines on here and the service and quality is top notch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lathes - Metalworking
> 
> 
> Grizzly Industrial, Inc. is a national retail and internet company providing a wide variety of high-quality woodworking and metalworking machinery, power tools, hand tools and accessories.  By selling directly to end users we provide the best quality products at the best price to professionals...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.grizzly.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.precisionmatthews.com/product-category/lathes/




Thanks for the insight, really helpful indeed.

Yes working on metric only system will drive me nuts too since I do live in the US, but I do need both metric and imperial for threading.

I will go with a 12-14" lathe simply due to the fact of automatic gearbox. But if I end up paying around 6K for a manual lathe I might as well get a used CNC lathe, wouldn't that be better in the long run?

Sorry for the nooby questions, but for the past few years for my customization needs in projects, I finally realized the solution is to just purchase a lathe. But I have no idea where to even start. I did gathered large amount of machining books about lathe machining, I don't think it would be too difficult in self teaching. 

Thanks again.


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## macardoso

rajhliux said:


> Thanks for the insight, really helpful indeed.
> 
> Yes working on metric only system will drive me nuts too since I do live in the US, but I do need both metric and imperial for threading.
> 
> I will go with a 12-14" lathe simply due to the fact of automatic gearbox. But if I end up paying around 6K for a manual lathe I might as well get a used CNC lathe, wouldn't that be better in the long run?
> 
> Sorry for the nooby questions, but for the past few years for my customization needs in projects, I finally realized the solution is to just purchase a lathe. But I have no idea where to even start. I did gathered large amount of machining books about lathe machining, I don't think it would be too difficult in self teaching.
> 
> Thanks again.



These things are just expensive...

A real entry level CNC lathe will probably run you $20-30k. You can buy an older used one, but then you have a project to get it running and learn it. You would need to be excited about refurbishing it as much as using it. They'll be very large and heavy and will most likely need 3 phase power. There isn't a huge market for CNCs designed for home use (especially lathes) and Tormach has cornered that market.






						Tormach 15L Slant-PRO Lathe
					

The 15L Slant-PRO CNC Lathe is designed for prototyping and light production and features conversational control, rigid tapping and configurable tooling and work holding.




					tormach.com
				




I have a 12" lathe I bought used ($1200 from a used machinery dealer). It has a quick change gearbox and change gears for metric threads. The head of the lathe is manually changed belts. I do not think this is a big deal and I don't often need to change the external change gears (couple dozen times in 3 years). With a given set of external change gears, the quick change gearbox will do 40 different threads. When I do change gears, it is a 5 minute job and is pretty easy. Your call how to spend your money, but changing gears really isn't a big deal. With 4 change gears, I can do a full complement of imperial and metric threads. Here is a link to a thread I wrote about my lathe. It might help you understand what is needed:









						Enco 12x36 Lathe Rebuild (Picture Heavy!)
					

Hi All, I recently purchased an Enco110-2033 gap bed lathe from a industrial surplus business for around $1100. It's more than some have spent on a lathe like this, but it was available nearby my house and in beautiful condition under the significant amount of grime that had coated it.  This...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




Precision Matthews is in PA and does demos of their equipment (unsure how COVID affects this). Might be worthwhile to take a trip to see them.

HGR is the machinery dealer in Euclid, OH (Cleveland area) I got my lathe from. Their inventory is constantly rotating. You can check what they have. Most everything will be used and often pretty expensive, but you can definitely get good deals. The price on stuff drops as time goes on so save items and check back. With used machinery you need to evaluate condition (wear and damage), as well as power requirements and spare part availability. Again, you're taking on a project when you buy used, make sure you are OK with that.









						Used Industrial Equipment For Sale
					

Used Industrial Equipment For Sale https://hgrinc.com




					hgrinc.com


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## macardoso

In the link I gave you to my project log of the Enco lathe, there is a discussion on lathe tooling and measuring instruments on page 2. That should give you an idea of what you might need to be successful with any lathe you buy. You certainly should not get all of it up front, but you'll need most of it eventually. Do some research and add up those costs to plan for it. I have absolutely no issue with import tooling for a hobby. I do treasure the couple name brand measuring instruments I have and there is a huge quality increase over the import versions of those same items.


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## macardoso

One last comment for now. There is a pretty good correlation between weight and your ability to cut quickly and accurately. More weight is better. My Enco is around 1000lbs and is probably at the lowest weight to make real use of the smallest insert tooling (I'm talking about cutting hard enough to actually engage the chip breaker). You can do nice work on smaller lathes, but it will take you longer to make the cuts and you'll have more difficulty holding tolerances.

Also remember that the published size is the absolute maximum capacity of the lathe between centers. The practical working size is much smaller once you add a chuck, tooling, and consider the swing over the cross slide. My 12x36" lathe has a reasonably useful capacity of maybe 7x24?


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## bakrch

@macardoso has covered a lot, well done.

As far as a used CNC, it could make sense if you are making decent money with it. If something goes wrong, the cost to fix it will likely be very high. Older CNC controls regularly become obsolete with little/no OEM support. No many keep these types of machines for more than 20 years, and even that is pushing it, so the parts market will generally reflect that. We just ran into a control issue on a 1998 Mazak lathe. The control needed a minor repair, but the part was no longer on the shelves, nor is it being made anymore (PC based windows 95 control).  This was an $11,000 repair to upgrade the entire control board. 10 years ago it would have cost maybe $300 when the parts were still available. Just do your research to hopefully avoid a situation like this.

If you do go the old CNC route, a HAAS TL-1 would be an excellent choice. We have one that is 18 years old, no issues getting parts ... and it can run on single-phase 220V.

I would also watch your budget. If you are going to make any money at all with the lathe, this should not enter your mind. I went all-in on a fully loaded PM1236 for about $5500. It is a good lathe and has served me well for the parts I make. Looking back, it has paid for itself many times over (the first time within just a few months of taking delivery). If I was to do it over again ... a 1340 or 1440GT would be my first choice. Today, I REALLY want to upgrade to a higher quality machine, it would have been easier to just spend the extra $2k the first time around.

Go small and cheap if you want to tinker and not necessarily profit, but please consider a Taiwan made 12x36 as the bare minimum if you plan to spend time in front of it making parts. The Chinese quality lathes will make the parts, but you will not have a smile on your face for long.


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## ThinWoodsman

I've said this sort of thing before, and I'll repeat it here: if you want a decent machine, and you want to save money, buy used.

Trying to save money while buying a new machine means you're going to end up with a limited or under-sized machine with casting problems, poor fit, poor design, etc. You don't know what you're getting until it arrives, and given the shipping costs it is by then too late to deal with even immediately-evident problems.

When buying used, you have a chance to evaluate the machine, talk to the previous owner, and so forth. There is still the problem of not knowing a good machine when you see it, and that is a very real problem, but there are ways to deal with that.

Of course, the destination for the machine (space available, stairs or doorways intervening, etc) is ultimately the limiting factor.


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## rajhliux

macardoso said:


> These things are just expensive...
> 
> A real entry level CNC lathe will probably run you $20-30k. You can buy an older used one, but then you have a project to get it running and learn it. You would need to be excited about refurbishing it as much as using it. They'll be very large and heavy and will most likely need 3 phase power. There isn't a huge market for CNCs designed for home use (especially lathes) and Tormach has cornered that market.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tormach 15L Slant-PRO Lathe
> 
> 
> The 15L Slant-PRO CNC Lathe is designed for prototyping and light production and features conversational control, rigid tapping and configurable tooling and work holding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tormach.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a 12" lathe I bought used ($1200 from a used machinery dealer). It has a quick change gearbox and change gears for metric threads. The head of the lathe is manually changed belts. I do not think this is a big deal and I don't often need to change the external change gears (couple dozen times in 3 years). When I do change gears, it is a 5 minute job and is pretty easy. Your call how to spend your money, but changing gears really isn't a big deal. With 4 change gears, I can do a full complement of imperial and metric threads. Here is a link to a thread I wrote about my lathe. It might help you understand what is needed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enco 12x36 Lathe Rebuild (Picture Heavy!)
> 
> 
> Hi All, I recently purchased an Enco110-2033 gap bed lathe from a industrial surplus business for around $1100. It's more than some have spent on a lathe like this, but it was available nearby my house and in beautiful condition under the significant amount of grime that had coated it.  This...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hobby-machinist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Precision Matthews is in PA and does demos of their equipment (unsure how COVID affects this). Might be worthwhile to take a trip to see them.
> 
> HGR is the machinery dealer in Euclid, OH (Cleveland area) I got my lathe from. Their inventory is constantly rotating. You can check what they have. Most everything will be used and often pretty expensive, but you can definitely get good deals. The price on stuff drops as time goes on so save items and check back. With used machinery you need to evaluate condition (wear and damage), as well as power requirements and spare part availability. Again, you're taking on a project when you buy used, make sure you are OK with that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Used Industrial Equipment For Sale
> 
> 
> Used Industrial Equipment For Sale https://hgrinc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hgrinc.com



Alright a CNC lathe is off from the question.

For you it will be 5 mins to change the gears and for me it will be 50 mins even if I'm experienced lol 

Paying extra for a fully enclosed gearbox is absolutely worth the money as long it is fairly priced, I'm completely alright with that, I'm sure others would agree. I'm buying this lathe specifically for all kinds of thread work, my chances of changing gears in a year will be more high than others. To my knowledge it seems like a fully enclosed gearbox are only included in the higher end of lathes which are precision lathes, seems like it's perfect for my needs. It's like buying a car and when you need to change the gear, the driver needs to make a quick stop and do a 5 min gear change and hit the road again, same logic with lathes, I find this lathe industry quite silly and interesting when people are spending thousands of dollars and yet the machinist needs to do a 5 min gear change lol

Any recommendation which P Matthews lathes would fit the bill for a fully automatic enclosed gearbox where one would never need to manually change gears for different threading on metric and imperial, I hope there is such lathe out there.

Thanks for your helpful insights!


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## rajhliux

bakrch said:


> @macardoso has covered a lot, well done.
> 
> As far as a used CNC, it could make sense if you are making decent money with it. If something goes wrong, the cost to fix it will likely be very high. Older CNC controls regularly become obsolete with little/no OEM support. No many keep these types of machines for more than 20 years, and even that is pushing it, so the parts market will generally reflect that. We just ran into a control issue on a 1998 Mazak lathe. The control needed a minor repair, but the part was no longer on the shelves, nor is it being made anymore (PC based windows 95 control).  This was an $11,000 repair to upgrade the entire control board. 10 years ago it would have cost maybe $300 when the parts were still available. Just do your research to hopefully avoid a situation like this.
> 
> If you do go the old CNC route, a HAAS TL-1 would be an excellent choice. We have one that is 18 years old, no issues getting parts ... and it can run on single-phase 220V.
> 
> I would also watch your budget. If you are going to make any money at all with the lathe, this should not enter your mind. I went all-in on a fully loaded PM1236 for about $5500. It is a good lathe and has served me well for the parts I make. Looking back, it has paid for itself many times over (the first time within just a few months of taking delivery). If I was to do it over again ... a 1340 or 1440GT would be my first choice. Today, I REALLY want to upgrade to a higher quality machine, it would have been easier to just spend the extra $2k the first time around.
> 
> Go small and cheap if you want to tinker and not necessarily profit, but please consider a Taiwan made 12x36 as the bare minimum if you plan to spend time in front of it making parts. The Chinese quality lathes will make the parts, but you will not have a smile on your face for long.



I do have plans to make profit with the help of the lathe but more importantly before profits comes into play, not changing gears is important.   
Does PM 1340 or 1440GT have a fully enclosed gearbox? Would I have to do a "5 min" gear change for different threads sizes for both imperial and metric? Is there any lathe that does not require for a "5 min" gear change?

Thanks!


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## bakrch

rajhliux said:


> I do have plans to make profit with the help of the lathe but more importantly before profits comes into play, not changing gears is important.
> Does PM 1340 or 1440GT have a fully enclosed gearbox? Would I have to do a "5 min" gear change for different threads sizes for both imperial and metric? Is there any lathe that does not require for a "5 min" gear change?
> 
> Thanks!



Somebody else that threads a lot on a manual will have to chime in here, but you're going to have some degree of pain going between a bunch of different thread pitches. Best you are going to do is "minimal change gears".  The 18" and 22" Taiwanese Summit lathes that I use at work have most of them covered without the need to change gears, but these are $20k+ Taiwanese lathes.  

You will probably also be hand cranking the spindle with the half nut engaged for imperial or metric threads.

I would write down all of the thread pitches you are going to cut regularly and post them up, somebody here with experience on that end will find the prudent path. Or, you could just call up Matt at PM to get direction there.


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## macardoso

rajhliux said:


> Alright a CNC lathe is off from the question.
> 
> For you it will be 5 mins to change the gears and for me it will be 50 mins even if I'm experienced lol
> 
> Paying extra for a fully enclosed gearbox is absolutely worth the money as long it is fairly priced, I'm completely alright with that, I'm sure others would agree. I'm buying this lathe specifically for all kinds of thread work, my chances of changing gears in a year will be more high than others. To my knowledge it seems like a fully enclosed gearbox are only included in the higher end of lathes which are precision lathes, seems like it's perfect for my needs. It's like buying a car and when you need to change the gear, the driver needs to make a quick stop and do a 5 min gear change and hit the road again, same logic with lathes, I find this lathe industry quite silly and interesting when people are spending thousands of dollars and yet the machinist needs to do a 5 min gear change lol
> 
> Any recommendation which P Matthews lathes would fit the bill for a fully automatic enclosed gearbox where one would never need to manually change gears for different threading on metric and imperial, I hope there is such lathe out there.
> 
> Thanks for your helpful insights!



The question isn't so much how often you'll change gears, but rather how often you need to switch between inch and metric. The cheapest lathes will change all the gears for each thread (that sucks), but the mid price ones (like mine) will have a quick change gearbox which covers many different threads and I only need to switch them when going from inch to metric or a really oddball thread. A fully enclosed gearbox is a real commodity and is only featured on production machinery. Gear change is usually only needed between jobs and can be put in the same bucket as tooling and work holding setup time.

But totally up to you. If you have the cash for a nice lathe then... a nice lathe is what you'll get.


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## rajhliux

ThinWoodsman said:


> I've said this sort of thing before, and I'll repeat it here: if you want a decent machine, and you want to save money, buy used.
> 
> Trying to save money while buying a new machine means you're going to end up with a limited or under-sized machine with casting problems, poor fit, poor design, etc. You don't know what you're getting until it arrives, and given the shipping costs it is by then too late to deal with even immediately-evident problems.
> 
> When buying used, you have a chance to evaluate the machine, talk to the previous owner, and so forth. There is still the problem of not knowing a good machine when you see it, and that is a very real problem, but there are ways to deal with that.
> 
> Of course, the destination for the machine (space available, stairs or doorways intervening, etc) is ultimately the limiting factor.



I'm not a true machinist, just a straight up noob. I totally agree with the logic of buying a used lathe, but a noob like myself has no idea where to even begin on finding one and hassel with all the repairs or what not for a used lathe. A noob will be wasting so much time it will be a project to refurbish the used lathe. I hate refurbishing stuff. Would rather pay a good bill for a new product that is ready to be used straight out of the box. I don't think there is any used lathe in the market which has a fully automatic gearbox for changing imperial and metric.


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## macardoso

rajhliux said:


> I do have plans to make profit with the help of the lathe but more importantly before profits comes into play, not changing gears is important.
> Does PM 1340 or 1440GT have a fully enclosed gearbox? Would I have to do a "5 min" gear change for different threads sizes for both imperial and metric? Is there any lathe that does not require for a "5 min" gear change?
> 
> Thanks!



According to the manual, the PM1440GT still has external change gears to switch between inch and metric (and that's a $8500+ lathe). This is just something everyone deals with and it really isn't a big deal. Do it once and you'll be an expert.

Another alternative is an electronic leadscrew, where a computer driven motor emulates the gears in a normal lathe. Punch in the thread you want and off you go. But you have to build this aftermarket and it is a project. Nobody is making a manual lathe that you would consider with this feature standard.


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## macardoso

rajhliux said:


> I'm not a true machinist, just a straight up noob. I totally agree with the logic of buying a used lathe, but a noob like myself has no idea where to even begin on finding one and hassel with all the repairs or what not for a used lathe. A noob will be wasting so much time it will be a project to refurbish the used lathe. I hate refurbishing stuff. Would rather pay a good bill for a new product that is ready to be used straight out of the box. I don't think there is any used lathe in the market which has a fully automatic gearbox for changing imperial and metric.



If you do want to consider a used machine from HGR, I am 15 minutes from there. I'd be willing to help you with looking over a lathe if you'd like. But that is a road trip for you. There is money to be saved for the penny wise, but a new machine should be perfect out of the box, where a used one might not.


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## bakrch

Count me in for that road trip. I was all ready to head over there before all this COVID nonsense. I may never leave the building.


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## Nogoingback

At  $1600.00, your  budget is pretty tight for any kind of machine with tooling, and it's not clear from your post what size machine you have in
mind.  I would strongly suggest not purchasing a machine directly from China (alibaba, etc.).   Product and warranty support is going
to be slim to nonexistent in most cases and if the machine is a dud, you'll probably have no recourse.  A company with a presence in the
USA like Grizzly, Jet or Precision Mathews will be available to provide parts and support if needed which is an important consideration.  The online prices may be seductive,
but in reality, you can't get something for nothing.
If you have a small lathe in mind (less than 10" swing) Grizzly has one on sale:  https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-9-x-19-Bench-Lathe/G4000,
but keep in mind these are small machines with limited capability.

It's also not clear if you plan on using the machine for a hobby, prototypes or production, but it sounds like you need to bump up the budget
to start with.


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## rajhliux

macardoso said:


> The question isn't so much how often you'll change gears, but rather how often you need to switch between inch and metric. The cheapest lathes will change all the gears for each thread (that sucks), but the mid price ones (like mine) will have a quick change gearbox which covers many different threads and I only need to switch them when going from inch to metric or a really oddball thread. A fully enclosed gearbox is a real commodity and is only featured on production machinery. Gear change is usually only needed between jobs and can be put in the same bucket as tooling and work holding setup time.
> 
> But totally up to you. If you have the cash for a nice lathe then... a nice lathe is what you'll get.



Well before I would never thought I would need to play around with metric threading system, just recently I need to do a complex custom PC water cooling system. The PC water cooling industry all over the world  including the US uses the "G1/4" thread system which is metric for the water fittings. So I'm sure in the future many projects other than PC water cooling will require me to change between metric and imperial more often since I'm a hobbisyst for the entire study of all mechanical, electrical and electronics engineering, literally.


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## rajhliux

bakrch said:


> Count me in for that road trip. I was all ready to head over there before all this COVID nonsense. I may never leave the building.


 I still haven't left my building since february.


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## bakrch

rajhliux said:


> I still haven't left my building since february.



I feel your pain through proxy. My wife's office is in Manhattan, she works from home so only there once a month to maintain presence when things were normal. I hear her coworkers talking about how NYC is almost on a daily basis. I can't even process what I hear, really.


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## ThinWoodsman

rajhliux said:


> 'm not a true machinist, just a straight up noob. I totally agree with the logic of buying a used lathe, but a noob like myself has no idea where to even begin on finding one and hassel with all the repairs or what not for a used lathe. A noob will be wasting so much time it will be a project to refurbish the used lathe.



I was in the exact same position a few years ago, and I started out by buying an import bench lathe, under the assumption that I could set it down and get to work. This is most certainly not the case, and will not be the case for anything in your stated budget. As is often pointed out on this site, import machines* are more of a kit than a turnkey system, and if you do not already have the machinist or mechanic skills needed to diagnose what needs fixing (and how to fix it) then you will be left with a useless POS.

When buying used, if you buy off something like CraigsList instead of from a machinery dealer, you can have the use of the machine demonstrated to you, you can talk to the current owner and get an idea of its history, and if you get along well with the guy then he will likely tell you what needs fixing and how to go about it. Many used machines do not have anything wrong with them - they are for sale because a machine shop closed down, or converted to CNC.

Finally, it must be pointed out that regardless or whether you buy new or used, you are going to be the mechanic who keeps that machine running. Just bite the bullet and accept that fact now.

* at least those in the < $3000 price range


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## ttabbal

PM has nice machines for a decent price. For a new purchase for hobby and small business, it's hard not to recommend them. 

For threading, you will need to change a gear for metric threads. Or imperial if you get a metric lathe. So you need to consider how often you need to use which type. I'm in the US and usually use imperial simply because it's more available when I am able to get shop time, usually weekends. So big box hardware stores are about it. I can order stuff online, but it's annoying to have both systems around. Particularly when you try to thread a 1/4" bolt into a 6mm thread. 

If you are up for the project, there's also the open source ELS from clough42 on youtube. I added one to my PM1127 and it's great. Instant feed rate changes and screw pitch changes. Including metric. 

As for new/used, the pros and cons are pretty well covered. I will add that my PM was pretty much ready to go after the normal cleanup and alignment you would have to do on any lathe. My used Bridgeport mill needed a full teardown to clean out the grease and a few parts, nothing major though. So I have done it both ways and was satisfied both times. I do think having some time on a machine to learn about how they wear and run is helpful in evaluating a used machine though. I also agree that you are the one who is going to have to keep the thing running. Even with support from PM, that just means I can get parts from them and they can answer questions. I still have to do the work. Thankfully, I haven't had any significant issues. But it is a bunch of moving parts that need to be precisely aligned and working together to get good results. And at these price levels, you don't get someone coming over to fix your machine. That can be had from some machinery dealers, but you pay for it.


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## rajhliux

ThinWoodsman said:


> I was in the exact same position a few years ago, and I started out by buying an import bench lathe, under the assumption that I could set it down and get to work. This is most certainly not the case, and will not be the case for anything in your stated budget. As is often pointed out on this site, import machines* are more of a kit than a turnkey system, and if you do not already have the machinist or mechanic skills needed to diagnose what needs fixing (and how to fix it) then you will be left with a useless POS.
> 
> When buying used, if you buy off something like CraigsList instead of from a machinery dealer, you can have the use of the machine demonstrated to you, you can talk to the current owner and get an idea of its history, and if you get along well with the guy then he will likely tell you what needs fixing and how to go about it. Many used machines do not have anything wrong with them - they are for sale because a machine shop closed down, or converted to CNC.
> 
> Finally, it must be pointed out that regardless or whether you buy new or used, you are going to be the mechanic who keeps that machine running. Just bite the bullet and accept that fact now.
> 
> * at least those in the < $3000 price range



I was in the impression where a machinist just like any other person wouldn't like to get bugged for something that they sold was "as is", plus I don't like bugging people. But due to my past history of buying used stuff and dealing with people always ended up bad... I'm sure there's good used stuff out there and using used stuff from the start is a wise choice. But I guess I might have to start looking around for a used lathe where I can customize it with an electronic lead screw not sure if this could be done. Note I have no Idea what is an electronic lead screw I just learned this term from this post.

Can you recommend which particular or companies I should look out for when considering a used lathe?

Thanks!


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## rajhliux

ttabbal said:


> PM has nice machines for a decent price. For a new purchase for hobby and small business, it's hard not to recommend them.
> 
> For threading, you will need to change a gear for metric threads. Or imperial if you get a metric lathe. So you need to consider how often you need to use which type. I'm in the US and usually use imperial simply because it's more available when I am able to get shop time, usually weekends. So big box hardware stores are about it. I can order stuff online, but it's annoying to have both systems around. Particularly when you try to thread a 1/4" bolt into a 6mm thread.
> 
> If you are up for the project, there's also the open source ELS from clough42 on youtube. I added one to my PM1127 and it's great. Instant feed rate changes and screw pitch changes. Including metric.
> 
> As for new/used, the pros and cons are pretty well covered. I will add that my PM was pretty much ready to go after the normal cleanup and alignment you would have to do on any lathe. My used Bridgeport mill needed a full teardown to clean out the grease and a few parts, nothing major though. So I have done it both ways and was satisfied both times. I do think having some time on a machine to learn about how they wear and run is helpful in evaluating a used machine though. I also agree that you are the one who is going to have to keep the thing running. Even with support from PM, that just means I can get parts from them and they can answer questions. I still have to do the work. Thankfully, I haven't had any significant issues. But it is a bunch of moving parts that need to be precisely aligned and working together to get good results. And at these price levels, you don't get someone coming over to fix your machine. That can be had from some machinery dealers, but you pay for it.



Extremely interesting! This is what I needed to know, I am assuming your "ELS from clough42" (open source, even better) is an electronic leadscrew... anyhows I need this type of modification where one does not need to play around with gears for different threading and also for changing between metric and imperial. I will google search into this "ELS from clough42" stuff. I like how I can just type down the numbers on a pad rather than manually switching gears.


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## macardoso

rajhliux said:


> I was in the impression where a machinist just like any other person wouldn't like to get bugged for something that they sold was "as is", plus I don't like bugging people. But due to my past history of buying used stuff and dealing with people always ended up bad... I'm sure there's good used stuff out there and using used stuff from the start is a wise choice. But I guess I might have to start looking around for a used lathe where I can customize it with an electronic lead screw not sure if this could be done. Note I have no Idea what is an electronic lead screw I just learned this term from "
> *macardoso".*



I wouldn't say it is a common things to do, but there are a few people who have added one of these systems to their lathe. It is a DIY project, but there is good documentation.









						Benchtop Lathe Gets An Electronic Leadscrew Makeover
					

The king of machine tools is the lathe, and if the king has a heart, it’s probably the leadscrew. That’s the bit that allows threading operations, arguably the most important job a lath…




					hackaday.com
				




I've had good luck with used stuff, but you have to have 1) patience to wait for something appropriate for your needs to turn up, and 2) a willingness to clean it up and fix a few thing,


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## rajhliux

macardoso said:


> I wouldn't say it is a common things to do, but there are a few people who have added one of these systems to their lathe. It is a DIY project, but there is good documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Benchtop Lathe Gets An Electronic Leadscrew Makeover
> 
> 
> The king of machine tools is the lathe, and if the king has a heart, it’s probably the leadscrew. That’s the bit that allows threading operations, arguably the most important job a lath…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hackaday.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've had good luck with used stuff, but you have to have 1) patience to wait for something appropriate for your needs to turn up, and 2) a willingness to clean it up and fix a few thing,



Is it possible you can recommend some used lathe brands which will perfectly work with an electronic lead screw? I wonder if there is any used PM lathe out there...


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## macardoso

rajhliux said:


> Is it possible you can recommend some used lathe brands which will perfectly work with an electronic lead screw? I wonder if there is any used PM lathe out there...



I am no expert on the system. I believe he only sells the electronics kit which you solder up. It is still on you to pick out the motor, build the adapter brackets, and make a case for the electronics.


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## rajhliux

macardoso said:


> I am no expert on the system. I believe he only sells the electronics kit which you solder up. It is still on you to pick out the motor, build the adapter brackets, and make a case for the electronics.



Do you think a lathe in the range of $2k-$3K from PM would be able to make accurate ball screw for the use of a custom built CNC?


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## macardoso

rajhliux said:


> Do you think a lathe in the range of $2k-$3K from PM would be able to make accurate ball screw for the use of a custom built CNC?



Absolutely not. I would not consider any lathe capable of that task. Those screws are produced by precision thread rolling or precision grinding equipment. They are expensive for a reason.


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## ttabbal

rajhliux said:


> Extremely interesting! This is what I needed to know, I am assuming your "ELS from clough42" (open source, even better) is an electronic leadscrew... anyhows I need this type of modification where one does not need to play around with gears for different threading and also for changing between metric and imperial. I will google search into this "ELS from clough42" stuff. I like how I can just type down the numbers on a pad rather than manually switching gears.











						Electronic Lead Screw
					

I'm going to attempt to adapt clough42's ELS to my PM1127. I figure I might as well do it publicly in case it ends up being useful for someone else. I have most of the parts now, and have the electronics and servo running on the bench. The first thing I decided to mess with is the rotary...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




Yes, it's an electronic leadscrew. There is a whole series on youtube documenting his build and he shares the design files out. You have to adapt it to your specific machine. A few people here have done so. For a larger lathe, you might need to use a more powerful motor. The one he used worked fine for mine, but my lathe is a similar size to his. 

Here's the first video in his series. It's worth watching them to get a good idea how it works and what you need to do to make this work. It's not a simple bolt on. It's worth the effort, in my opinion. But I don't want to downplay the work. I think most anyone who wanted to can do it, but it's not a 5 minute job either.


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## MrWhoopee

You're putting the cart before the horse. There are no shortcuts to machining. Get some instruction and familiarity with a lathe before trying to buy one. Start here: https://www.makerspace.nyc/
Starting from zero on your own machine can get expensive.


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## kb58

I'm glad to see the useful replies that the OP is getting—and that I wasn't the first to respond. Half way the OP's post, I'm thinking "I bet that this guy's new." It's threads where someone unfamiliar with a product or device feels that it's reasonable to ask experienced operators and owners what to do. That by itself is perfectly reasonable, but what's disappointing is the lack of effort on their part to have done any research before asking. It's like their time is important, so therefore, we own them an immediate and accurate solution. Almost always, this request for an answer comes with insufficient information, and what's lacking here is whether this is for a business, or just a desire.

Oh yes, I've become grumpy and harsh, which comes from the frustration of those who don't made an effort before wanting others to provide them with an answer on a silver platter. I work in Field Support, and we never go to the engineers without first trying to figure it out on our own. Then, if we need their help, it shows them that we value their time, and can present what we think is going on, and they can either agree or provide a correction... just sayin'


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## mmcmdl

rajhliux said:


> I'm not a true machinist, just a straight up noob. I totally agree with the logic of buying a used lathe, but a noob like myself has no idea where to even begin on finding one and hassel with all the repairs or what not for a used lathe. A noob will be wasting so much time it will be a project to refurbish the used lathe. I hate refurbishing stuff. Would rather pay a good bill for a new product that is ready to be used straight out of the box. I don't think there is any used lathe in the market which has a fully automatic gearbox for changing imperial and metric.



This site is overloaded with threads that will answer your questions . Read up on them and familiarize yourself with advantages and disadvantages of specific equipment .


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## macardoso

kb58 said:


> I'm glad to see the useful replies that the OP is getting—and that I wasn't the first to respond. Half way the OP's post, I'm thinking "I bet that this guy's new." It's threads where someone unfamiliar with a product or device feels that it's reasonable to ask experienced operators and owners what to do. That by itself is perfectly reasonable, but what's disappointing is the lack of effort on their part to have done any research before asking. It's like their time is important, so therefore, we own them an immediate and accurate solution. Almost always, this request for an answer comes with insufficient information, and what's lacking here is whether this is for a business, or just a desire.
> 
> Oh yes, I've become grumpy and harsh, which comes from the frustration of those who don't made an effort before wanting others to provide them with an answer on a silver platter. I work in Field Support, and we never go to the engineers without first trying to figure it out on our own. Then, if we need their help, it shows them that we value their time, and can present what we think is going on, and they can either agree or provide a correction... just sayin'



In OP's defense, they did identify themselves as being very new. There is a significant burden when someone is brand new to a topic in not knowing what they don't know. I was brutally reminded of this fact when I recently started an electronics project and joined some electronics forums. I really wanted to convey my lack of knowledge, my effort I had put into the topic, and my willingness to learn, but I got a lot of flak over there for the questions I asked.

I came up with the name Mt. Stupid to describe this feeling. It is the obstacle that stands in your way to learning a topic and when you're at the bottom of that mountain, you might not even have any idea things exist or what to call them. It is hard to do meaningful research until you've gotten over that first barrier. I hope we can all help OP (and the countless more to come) learn what they need to get going. After all we are the "Friendly Machinist Forum" and that's the biggest reason I love this site!


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## rajhliux

ttabbal said:


> Electronic Lead Screw
> 
> 
> I'm going to attempt to adapt clough42's ELS to my PM1127. I figure I might as well do it publicly in case it ends up being useful for someone else. I have most of the parts now, and have the electronics and servo running on the bench. The first thing I decided to mess with is the rotary...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hobby-machinist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's an electronic leadscrew. There is a whole series on youtube documenting his build and he shares the design files out. You have to adapt it to your specific machine. A few people here have done so. For a larger lathe, you might need to use a more powerful motor. The one he used worked fine for mine, but my lathe is a similar size to his.
> 
> Here's the first video in his series. It's worth watching them to get a good idea how it works and what you need to do to make this work. It's not a simple bolt on. It's worth the effort, in my opinion. But I don't want to downplay the work. I think most anyone who wanted to can do it, but it's not a 5 minute job either.



Yes I have already watched all of them, learned a lot.
Thanks!


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## rajhliux

kb58 said:


> I'm glad to see the useful replies that the OP is getting—and that I wasn't the first to respond. Half way the OP's post, I'm thinking "I bet that this guy's new." It's threads where someone unfamiliar with a product or device feels that it's reasonable to ask experienced operators and owners what to do. That by itself is perfectly reasonable, but what's disappointing is the lack of effort on their part to have done any research before asking. It's like their time is important, so therefore, we own them an immediate and accurate solution. Almost always, this request for an answer comes with insufficient information, and what's lacking here is whether this is for a business, or just a desire.
> 
> Oh yes, I've become grumpy and harsh, which comes from the frustration of those who don't made an effort before wanting others to provide them with an answer on a silver platter. I work in Field Support, and we never go to the engineers without first trying to figure it out on our own. Then, if we need their help, it shows them that we value their time, and can present what we think is going on, and they can either agree or provide a correction... just sayin'



The reason why you're assuming I didn't do my "research" before hand is because I do not believe everything I read from the internet. I did do some google and researching for the past few days but still wasn't sure which lathe to get. Therefore the most wise thing anyone can do to get precise and proper information is by asking question to "professionals" for the particular subject. Glad I did because I ended up knowing the "electronic leadscrew".

My questions are for pure desire and nothing business related. I am a hobbyist in mechanical, electrical and electronics. But machining is new to me.


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## rajhliux

macardoso said:


> In OP's defense, they did identify themselves as being very new. There is a significant burden when someone is brand new to a topic in not knowing what they don't know. I was brutally reminded of this fact when I recently started an electronics project and joined some electronics forums. I really wanted to convey my lack of knowledge, my effort I had put into the topic, and my willingness to learn, but I got a lot of flak over there for the questions I asked.
> 
> I came up with the name Mt. Stupid to describe this feeling. It is the obstacle that stands in your way to learning a topic and when you're at the bottom of that mountain, you might not even have any idea things exist or what to call them. It is hard to do meaningful research until you've gotten over that first barrier. I hope we can all help OP (and the countless more to come) learn what they need to get going. After all we are the "Friendly Machinist Forum" and that's the biggest reason I love this site!



You exactly know what I'm going through  I guess the first barrier for me was discovering about the "electronic leadscrew" and knowing what price ranges for lathe gives what kind of quality in threading.


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## JRaut

Literally any lathe on the market that can cut threads will cut them with sufficient “quality” or “accuracy” for what you’re trying to do. 

Water hose fittings and the like, right?

Chasing extreme precision for such a task will cost you (an exhorbitant amount of) money and time. and will provide no real return.


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## rajhliux

JRaut said:


> Literally any lathe on the market that can cut threads will cut them with sufficient “quality” or “accuracy” for what you’re trying to do.
> 
> Water hose fittings and the like, right?
> 
> Chasing extreme precision for such a task will cost you (an exhorbitant amount of) money and time. and will provide no real return.



Thanks for the reply. 

Yes, hose and quick connectors and the like.

This is exactly what I was assuming as you mentioned that any lathe in the market can provide a sufficient quality for my purpose.

But I'm still in some kind of dilemma, since many, like 90% machinists, has said to get a mid range ($3K-$6K) lathe.

So far I have found this "JET 1224PS" lathe on craigslist, and I've spoken with the owner and he wouldn't go lower than $1,500... what's the deal guys?
Should I take it and it's a good lathe? Will this lathe be priced at $4K if I get a brand new one? I will modify it with an electronic lead screw.

Thanks


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## John O

Are any of these threads tapered? 
Precision water connector with threads of all kinds (Both American and British)
-Quick Connectors
-Hydraulics
I haven't figured out how to do tapered threads on a manual lathe.


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## rajhliux

John O said:


> Are any of these threads tapered?
> Precision water connector with threads of all kinds (Both American and British)
> -Quick Connectors
> -Hydraulics
> I haven't figured out how to do tapered threads on a manual lathe.



I don't see why one shouldn't be able to make tapered threads on a decent lathe. I do need to have the ability to make tapered threads on a lathe.


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## ThinWoodsman

John O said:


> I haven't figured out how to do tapered threads on a manual lathe.



That's a good point, and something I overlooked in the original post. Pipe threads are tapered, and there is no easy way to do this with a single-point tool. A die in the tailstock would work, and I imagine a taper attachment could be used for single-point threading; otherwise it looks like the compound has to move in sync with the carriage to maintain the taper.

EDIT: yup and yup.


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## ttabbal

If the jet is in good condition and comes with the accessories, it's a decent price. 

Ugh... I hate tapered threads. Can you use o-ring seals or similar?


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## rajhliux

ttabbal said:


> If the jet is in good condition and comes with the accessories, it's a decent price.
> 
> Ugh... I hate tapered threads. Can you use o-ring seals or similar?



The JET needs some work, but no tooling whatsoever.


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## MrWhoopee

You will definitely need a taper attachment for tapered pipe threads. The only other way is with a die (or CNC). These are things that, along with other essentials, you would learn by getting some instruction BEFORE buying a lathe and finding out it won't do what you need. Get thee to a makerspace.


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## Mitch Alsup

rajhliux said:


> But I'm still in some kind of dilemma, since many, like 90% machinists, has said to get a mid range ($3K-$6K) lathe.
> 
> So far I have found this "JET 1224PS" lathe on craigslist, and I've spoken with the owner and he wouldn't go lower than $1,500... what's the deal guys?
> Should I take it and it's a good lathe? Will this lathe be priced at $4K if I get a brand new one?



The 12×36 PM and Grizzly comparables are in the $4,200 range right now (thanks to Trump's Chinese tariffs.) A couple of years ago the same machines were $3,400 range.

You should figure that $1,500 with useful amounts of tooling is a pretty decent price; depending on the amount of tooling. You should also get the stands, and be prepared with a engine lift and lifting tackle to move it from shop to truck.

The 24" bed length will be a bit restrictive compared to a ×36-er.


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## ArmyDoc

rajhliux said:


> I'm not a true machinist, just a straight up noob. I totally agree with the logic of buying a used lathe, but a noob like myself has no idea where to even begin on finding one and hassel with all the repairs or what not for a used lathe. A noob will be wasting so much time it will be a project to refurbish the used lathe. I hate refurbishing stuff. Would rather pay a good bill for a new product that is ready to be used straight out of the box. I don't think there is any used lathe in the market which has a fully automatic gearbox for changing imperial and metric.


A good place to start is craigslist.  Local hobby machinists are likely to list there.  Also, you will see ads from machinery sales places, then you will be able to go to their sites and check their inventory, or go talk to them.  I finally talked myself into an ~ $5000 budget for a new lathe.  Similar to you, I didn't want to deal with gear changes. (Bear in mind on the PM new machines, you still need to swap out a gear when changing from imperial to metric)  At $5,000, suddenly used industrial machines come into the picture.  A 1000# PM 1236 is not going to hold a candle to a used #3000 industrial lathe, and these often come with extra attachments, if it is decent condition.  There is a site near me that sells used equipment.  It doesn't have the kind of warranty that a new machine has, but they do have a 30 return policy that makes buying used less worrisome.  You are likely to find similar places near you.


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## ArmyDoc

rajhliux said:


> I do have plans to make profit with the help of the lathe but more importantly before profits comes into play, not changing gears is important.
> Does PM 1340 or 1440GT have a fully enclosed gearbox? Would I have to do a "5 min" gear change for different threads sizes for both imperial and metric? Is there any lathe that does not require for a "5 min" gear change?
> 
> Thanks!


I believe the PM- 1440GS will do metric and imperial without having to use a change gear.  It had a dial that you turned left or right to choose between metric and imperial.  Unfortunately it is currently out of stock.  Talk to Matt.  He would know a) when it's coming back and b) if he has an alternative that would work for you.


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## darkzero

@ArmyDoc The OP is no longer a member of this forum.


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## addertooth

I chuckle when I read through this post, and it got to one and a half pages before someone mentioned dies (taps may be needed to).  When doing tapered pipe threads without a tap/die, there is a lot of set up on many lathes... the changing of lead screw gears is trivial when compared to setting up the right taper for the Internal Diameter tapered cut (unless you want your threading tool to do the heavy cutting while creating threads).  This is why commercial locations use taps and dies to do tapered pipe threads (or CNC).  They produce consistent results which are easy to master, with virtually no set up, other than to change the die (or cutting teeth in the die head). If I were going to be consistently cutting ten different tapered threads, a tap and die set, or a tap and die head with replaceable cutting thread inserts would be my method of choice.  This method can even be done on a turret lathe (which will normally NOT have a compound feed for tapers, in a non-CNC production environment).  Cutting an internal diameter to a taper is easy, the setup cutting a tapered thread is more complex.  

On this website, take a peek in the "a beginner's forum", they have a sticky posting on cutting threads.  You will note there is almost no mention of tapered pipe threads, as it is not considered a beginner's technique, without a tap and die.


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## ttabbal

I know it's at least theoretically possible to cut tapered threads on a normal lathe, but I would never bother. Too much setup etc for the benefit. Tap/Die if I really need pipe threads. If it's my own part, o-ring seals with straight threads. I despise pipe threads.


----------

