# DRO On the Lathe?



## Ray C (Jan 17, 2018)

Because of another thread going on now, I noticed that DROs are in the $200 price range.   Pretty sure I paid about $650 on my mill many years ago.  At these new prices, it's tempting to put DRO on the lathe but, I've been doing fine without it and don't know if it's worth rocking the boat.   I have an iGaging "DRO" on the Z axis which gets me in the ballpark then, calipers & mics for fine-tuning.

For me anyhow, it seems that operating the lathe and mill is half art and half science.  When it gets right down to those last couple cuts and the grande-finale finish pass, it's all art at that point.   Does a DRO really help that part of things?

Does anyone out there have any convincing thoughts/opinions why I should try DRO on the lathe?

Ray


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## T. J. (Jan 17, 2018)

I can't really answer your question, since I don't have one either.  But since you already have an iGaging scale, you could consider adding another one on the cross slide and incorporating the two of them with this:

http://blu-dro.com/

That would add the functionality of a "real" DRO.  Like I said, I don't have any experience, but I have been looking at this setup for my Logan lathe.


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## wrmiller (Jan 17, 2018)

When I'm doing stuff that can be plus or minus a thou or two, I take a cut, measure the diameter of the part, input that number in the DRO and never measure again. And the part comes out fine. Surprisingly, I hit the number dead on about 3 out of 5 times, but that has come with practice and learning how much off the actual cut will be based on how heavy or how light the cut is.

When I'm trying to stay within a thou or less I'll do the above until I'm close and then start measuring the part. The DRO then just allows me to really 'dial in' the DOC as I have .0001" diameter resolution on the cross slide. Takes 'skim pass' to a whole new level. 

In the end, I agree that much of this still requires art or skill, but the DRO definitely helps speed/simplify things for me.


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## Bob Korves (Jan 17, 2018)

I recently bought a 3 axis glass scale Chinese DRO for my mill.  $228 delivered.  It came as promised, no issues, and everything works.  Have not installed it yet, too cold out there and I am still planning the installation.  I get along just fine with dials on my machines, so it is no big deal.  I know how to work with backlash.  In my mind, the DRO usually just helps you remember where you are, which dials do as well with some counting and memory work.  The DRO is no doubt easier on the old eyes, and is easy to reset to zero.  It probably makes for more backlash problems with many users.  I am not so interested in the "gee whiz" stuff like bolt circles, but may use them once in a great while.  If it was not that my eyes are getting worse, I would not have even considered getting one.  I am probably the exception here, however...

It will no doubt be a learning experience for a while using the DRO.  The few times I have used one, the numbers on the screen were just rolling by and not telling me much.  I found myself having to pay very close attention to not overrun my numbers.  That will no doubt improve with time.


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## tjb (Jan 17, 2018)

The first piece of machining equipment I bought was a used Smithy 3-in-1.  The guy I bought it from worked in a factory that had commercial machinery, but he wanted something small in his basement to piddle with.  He had installed remote readouts on all three axes, and I was pleasantly surprised at how accurate they were.  Here's a link to one similar, but not quite the same that's on eBay (if you can't connect to it, just do a search on 'digital readout'):

https://www.ebay.com/sch/Manufactur...=15&_nkw=digital+readout&_pgn=2&_skc=50&rt=nc

Here are a few photos of the Smithy that show the location of the sensors.  Since that is not the main focus of the various photos, you'll need to locate them visually.  It's particularly convenient that with these remote units, you can mount the magnetic readouts just about anywhere you want.  I've included a photo that shows them on the front panel of the Smithy.  (Note that none of the sensor wires are plugged in to the readouts.  I had cleaned up the unit for sale and taken it out of service, so I left them unplugged.  Turned out the sensors were a pretty good selling point for the buyer.)

Clearly not the best option for precision measurements, but as you and others have observed, when you get to that point, it's safer to pretty much rely on 'art and science' anyway.  Given that your need is for a lathe, you would only need two, so cost would be minimal.  Not necessarily the best option but certainly a good low-cost one to consider.

Regards,
Terry


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## mikey (Jan 17, 2018)

Ray, I do not own a DRO for my lathe but that will be my next big purchase. I've been thinking about it for some time, and while a lot of folks seem to think a lathe DRO is not necessary, it is for me. I use an Emco Super 11CD lathe with very accurate cross slide and compound handwheels and lead screws. There is zero backlash on both of these handwheels. However, for some stupid reason, the Z-axis/saddle rack is calibrated in metric - just shy of 19mm per revolution. This is a major pain for me when precision boring so, for me, a DRO makes sense. Of course, this is my excuse; the truth is that I'm tired of pulling out an indicator.

The other reason for wanting a DRO is that I occasionally use carbide insert tooling and as we know, what you dial in is not what you get with small depths of cut. I have several nose radii on the inserts I use and it would be good to know how the depth of cut correlates with changes in OD with different nose radii so I can more accurately dial in a cut to accommodate those pesky radial cutting forces. For the life of me, I cannot see how it is possible to dial in a sub-0.001" depth of cut with an insert but I've seen enough posts that say it is possible and most of the posters own a DRO. Color me curious.


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## Reddinr (Jan 17, 2018)

I bought a DRO kit from DRO Pros more than a year ago.  I recently got the cross-slide "DRO'd" but have not mounted the Z axis yet.   I procrastinated drilling holes in the cast iron for a while ...   I got along OK without it but I really like being able to easily dial-in to make deep enough cuts that work well with inserts and still be confident about the final diameter.   Taking too light a cut with inserts often messes up the finish.   I just need to find the time to to do the "Z" now.  With my novice level of experience and using inserts, I find the DRO useful and recommend one, especially at today's prices.  Be sure to understand the accuracy and resolution figures.  They can vary from supplier to supplier.  My cross-slide DRO sensor has 2X the resolution of the one for the Z axis.  This helps (according to the sales literature anyway) as 1 mil of cross feed travel = 2 mils of diameter.

It does not replace knowing your machine by using it a lot but it is very convenient sometimes.


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## f350ca (Jan 17, 2018)

I've had a DRO on the mill for the last 15 years, recently upgraded from a Shooting Star that used rack and pinion to a 3 axis glass scale. On the mill, in my opinion they are a must, don't worry about backlash or table movement during a cut, they negate or monitor it.
I've have one on my 16 x 80 Summit lathe, wouldn't be without it but could get by. It has three scales, the one on the compound is summed with the carriage feed. (it will read either separately if you want). I keep the compound dialled in parallel to the bed. The carriage probably weighs 5 or 600 pounds, if I'm machining to a shoulder I can kick the power feed out 20 or 30 thou shy and dial the last bit in on the compound. The carriage has a rotary dial with a vernier to measure travel but bumping the carriage a thou or less on that size a machine would be hit or miss. With the DRO you hit it every time. 
Also nice on long cuts where I might be zeroing the tool off the end of the shaft and cutting 30 inches to a shoulder.
You can store setups for tools on most lathe DRO's. Set up say tool 1 for a turning tool, finish with it and set tool 2 for a boring bar or what ever, then switch back to tool one and your settings are good to the repeatability of your quick change tool post. Usually 2 or 3 thou.
Making multiple parts its nice,
I've never bothered on the Hardinge, the dials are deadly and parts are small so it really doesn't need one.
The old DRO off the mill went on the shaper where the dials are less than adequate.

Greg


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## Groundhog (Jan 17, 2018)

Just a FYI:
I just got a quote from DRO Pros that includes new magnetic scales that are 1/2 the width and height of their normal S1 scales.

I have a fitment issue with my lathe where the carriage ball oilers and the carriage lock are very close to the cross slide, causing problems with standard glass and magnetic scales. Looks like these scales will eliminate this problem.


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## Ray C (Jan 17, 2018)

Well everybody, thanks for your thoughts.  As far as DRO on the lathe...  I'm not feeling the love and burning desire.    When I work on a part, I measure it and calculate how many passes are needed for the bulk removal.  When I get to that point, I have a method of closing-in for the kill.  On those last few passes, I toss a dial-face indicator against the compound or cross-slide and I usually snug the jibs just a tad.   The indicator helps me determine exactly how much was dialed in; a micrometer tells me how much came off...  Do that little rain dance 2-3 times in a row and bingo -all done.

When I'm making shoulders, the iGaging thing helps get really close and calipers & mics tell me the rest of the story.

Last year, I got rid of most of my digital calipers and switched-over to dial calipers.   ...Troglodyte, I guess.

Ray


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## tjb (Jan 17, 2018)

Ray C said:


> Well everybody, thanks for your thoughts.  As far as DRO on the lathe...  I'm not feeling the love and burning desire.    When I work on a part, I measure it and calculate how many passes are needed for the bulk removal.  When I get to that point, I have a method of closing-in for the kill.  On those last few passes, I toss a dial-face indicator against the compound or cross-slide and I usually snug the jibs just a tad.   The indicator helps me determine exactly how much was dialed in; a micrometer tells me how much came off...  Do that little rain dance 2-3 times in a row and bingo -all done.
> 
> When I'm making shoulders, the iGaging thing helps get really close and calipers & mics tell me the rest of the story.
> 
> ...


Ray, I find your last comment to be very interesting.  I am on my second pair of digital calipers - good quality - and I am not very happy with them.  This second pair is essentially brand new (3 months old, maybe), and its lack of precision is very disappointing.  I can close the calipers, set them to zero, turn it off, immediately turn it back on, and it will be off plus or minus .0005 - .0010 (every now and then, .0015).  More often than not, when using them, I can set to zero, take a reading, then close back and the closed reading will be something other than zero.  I've wondered if maybe it's a little bit of trash on the jaws, but I've had the same result many times under very controlled circumstances.  I'm ready to go back to dial calipers myself.  Anybody else out there have this kind of problem?  (I prefer to not mention a brand name, but it's one everyone will recognize.  The calipers (both pair) were a little over $100 each - not the el cheapo's.

Regards,
Terry


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## Ray C (Jan 17, 2018)

tjb said:


> Ray, I find your last comment to be very interesting.  I am on my second pair of digital calipers - good quality - and I am not very happy with them.  This second pair is essentially brand new (3 months old, maybe), and its lack of precision is very disappointing.  I can close the calipers, set them to zero, turn it off, immediately turn it back on, and it will be off plus or minus .0005 - .0010 (every now and then, .0015).  More often than not, when using them, I can set to zero, take a reading, then close back and the closed reading will be something other than zero.  I've wondered if maybe it's a little bit of trash on the jaws, but I've had the same result many times under very controlled circumstances.  I'm ready to go back to dial calipers myself.  Anybody else out there have this kind of problem?  (I prefer to not mention a brand name, but it's one everyone will recognize.  The calipers (both pair) were a little over $100 each - not the el cheapo's.
> 
> Regards,
> Terry



Terry / All...

I've had similar experiences (if not identical).  One of the best digital calipers I had was the early version of the "Centronic" brand when digital calipers were first coming out.  I had two, 6"ers and they gave me 4+ good years of service before loosening-up and becoming unreliable.   I bought another in the $120 range (this was about 5 years ago) and even though I used it for 3 years, it seemed to have phases of being reliable then, not-so-reliable.  It was not the battery, they were changed proactively.   Around that time, I bought a couple sets of HarborFreight units and they worked OK, but not great, for about 2 years.

I noticed there were about about 4 sets of digital calipers in the shop and each one had a different set of quirks.  In all those years, I could probably fill a Hills-Brother's can with those #357 batteries.   One day, I started using an old dial type that was in my collection and I liked how you can see the needle move with different pressure.  I like being able to dial the face to zero.  I like being able to visually interpolate between the half-thou zone...

The dial calipers I'm using regularly now are not all that expensive (about $39 each) but they're doing OK and so far, seem to give me faster and more confident measurements.

What's next; Vinyl and Tube Amps?

Ray


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## mikey (Jan 17, 2018)

Ray C said:


> What's next; Vinyl and Tube Amps?



I'd say a good vernier caliper but we don't need to get carried away.

Hill's Bros - you have to be of a certain vintage to remember that brand!


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## Ray C (Jan 17, 2018)

mikey said:


> I'd say a good vernier caliper but we don't need to get carried away.
> 
> Hill's Bros - you have to be of a certain vintage to remember that brand!




58...   And FYI:  In my early days, I did fundamental R&D on cell phone technology.   I didn't start carrying one till the mid 2000's and only did it begrudgingly for a few years.   I've all but given-up on it now.  I check it once a day whether I need to or not.   I'm going to go shopping for a rotary phone and have just one, in the kitchen.


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## Dhector (Jan 17, 2018)

I'm going to o throw this out there but read it with a grain of salt since I am one of the biggest newbies on this forum. I have a lathe, and a mill. 14x48 lathe, 9x49 msc mill. The mill had a 2 axis dro. The lathe had nothing. I wanted a 3 axis dro for the mill because I found myself try to measure depth of cut. Remember I'm a newbie!!! So finally I bought a 3 axis for the mill. I went against experienced advise and instead of installing the third axis on the knee, I cut it and put it on the quill. It works for a newbie, maybe not correct in application, but it suits me well so far. Anyway, my idea was to buy a 3 axis and put the two axis on my lathe, which patting myself on the back I got it installed and working tonight!!! The way I built requires some bushings for the "reader," glass scales by the way, for a reason I may explain in another thread. Anyway I had to remove .155 off spacers to make it fit the way I wanted. I did the first one manually, ballpark cut, remove, measure, repeatedly, etc. Took me about an 30 minutes. If you have forgotten, I'm a newbie at this. After it was done I installed 1 spacer to hold the reader on so I could use the dro to do the second. Took me three passes and probably 3 total minutes to finish the second one. I'm hooked on the dro for the lathe already. 
I will say this, I didn't install the dro on the cross slide since it's a glass mill scale and can't be cut. The dial is accurate so I don't mind not having digitally monitored. I hope it helps. Do remember, I'm a newbie so it's possible for a lot of better methods, but after the first cut I used it on, I'm hooked!!


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## tjb (Jan 17, 2018)

Ray and Mikey,

Can't say I'm glad I'm not the only one with issues on digital's, but it is comforting to know that it's more pervasive than local.  I think I'm going back to dial's as well, and I'm not opposed to a good set of vernier's either.  I recently bought some vintage tooling from a retiring machinist, and a couple 12" vernier's were part of the package.  They're very high quality (though a bit large for most applications), and I'm impressed with their accuracy.  I suspect I'll end up with some more dial calipers, but you're welcome to all the dial telephones you can find.

Regards,
Terry


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## mksj (Jan 18, 2018)

I guess I am in the other boat, I can't see the dials/lines very well and would need to switch back and forth between glasses to see which mark the needle is sitting on. Not much better reading the macine dials, but I do use them at times.  I am also more of the buy once mentality these days, so I have 3 calipers (6", 8" and 12") that I have used for the last couple of years, and I can close the jaws and they will hit "0.0000" every time. Two are absolutes and I have not had to rezero them. I was going over some machining tricks with another person, whipped them out on some 123 blocks and they were all spot on, all within 0.0005". I can still see the digits and I can switch between metric, imperial and fraction on the fly. Since I do a lot of metric, they are really handy. So it is a matter of both the reliability, quality and your preference/visual acuity.

On the DRO's I can hit very close tolerances without working hard at it, and when you do a lot of repeat parts I think it greatly speeds up the process. On the lathe, once I get close to my final dimension, I measure the cut and enter it into the DRO and then take my final cut. I can reliably repeat the process and expect the same results.  Since you can setup both increment and absolute DRO readings, I use each to setup different cut parameters. These can be for two different holders or two different turning parameter endpoints. With the electronic lathe stop, I set it off of the DRO position, once set the stop position repeats to 0.0002".  I would be challenged to get anywhere near that with say a Travadial. It doesn't make you a better machinist, but it does make your life a lot easier, providing you understand the skill/art of what you are doing. Understanding your lathe, material properties, cutter properties, etc. are still all part of the equation. But as Bill mentioned, I can make 10 sets of parts using the DRO (which I had to do the other day on the lathe and mill), and they all where within the accuracy limits of my measuring calipers (0.0005").  If I had to do every piece manually and creep up on the dimensions, well it would have taken a lot longer. When using inserts, you cannot often creep up on the final dimension because of the insert properties or the material you are working on. This is the art, but I can take a trial pass, read the numbers and know that I can hit the same numbers on the next pass.  So I see it as just another tool to increase your productivity and to simplify the process. Do I use analog dial gauges, sure I do. They still have their place, but I would be surprised to see a machine shop that  didn't use DRO's.

I have learned a lot from another local machinist with ton's more experience than me, used analog micrometers, dial calipers and the machine dials. I slowly have converted him over to the dark side, and now he is mostly a digital convert. The other day he was remarking that he set up his mill to do a bunch of repeat parts with deep cuts in  steel. He put the numbers in the DRO and cut right to his final shoulder dimension on each part. He no longer creeps up on the numbers, he machines by the numbers.


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## mikey (Jan 18, 2018)

Good points, Mark. I can see how a lathe DRO can speed up your work and make inserted tools easier to use. There are also times when I have multiples of a part that need to be made and it is tedious to hit tight tolerances on each one. The last time I had to turn out 8 identical parts I swore I would buy a DRO, and I will. 

I'm with Terry and Ray on the dial calipers and indicators. I own one digital caliper, one of the original Starrett's that were very accurate. Still have it but don't use it. I just prefer analog stuff - reliable, easy enough for me to see and I prefer to see the hand swing and interpolate. Sort of like preferring an analog tach instead of a digital one when you need to speed shift your trans - just easier for me to use.


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## wrmiller (Jan 18, 2018)

I have a US made Starrett dial caliper that I use constantly. I gave away the digital one I bought because I hardly ever used it.

I also have a set of old Starrett mics that I use for when I need a little better accuracy than my caliper offers. But for those times when I need to be really close, I have a digital 0-1 and 1-2.

I just wish the batteries lasted longer in these digitals.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 18, 2018)

Interesting to hear the different opinions. I like digitals (calipers or DROs) for the ability to easily zero at any point and to convert between metric and imperial. I have readouts on the XY vise on my drill press, just put them on my 618 (no dial on the carriage wheel) and am waiting to buy a set for the mill. I find it a real hassle to work without them, takes a lot of the mental busy work out of machining and lets me focus on the important stuff and/ or day dreaming. But if you had imperial screws and dials on a lathe I can see how you could manage without one fine.


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## Reddinr (Jan 18, 2018)

I like digital read outs for XYZ machine axis indication but I like "analog" dial indicators for setups, tramming etc.


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## Ray C (Jan 18, 2018)

wrmiller said:


> I have a US made Starrett dial caliper that I use constantly. I gave away the digital one I bought because I hardly ever used it.
> 
> I also have a set of old Starrett mics that I use for when I need a little better accuracy than my caliper offers. But for those times when I need to be really close, I have a digital 0-1 and 1-2.
> 
> I just wish the batteries lasted longer in these digitals.



Hey Bill...  For my entire "career" dabbling with metal, I've always relied mainly on mics to do the final measuring.  I have a very nice matching collection of Scherr Tumico's all the way up to 12".   They are all the same style between 0/1 to 5/6 inches.  Black frame with tenths calibration and ratchet knob on the end.  The 6/7 to 11/12 inch style are hollow-body, black frame, ratchet knob but, only have markings to 0.001 (which is fine for me with stuff over 6").  I rarely use the larger ones but, decided to own a full set.  Anyhow, I had a hodge-podge of different mics and many of them had a different appearance when the graduations lined-up perfectly on the 25, 50, 75 marks.  This caused me to have a couple mis-readings so, I standardized on one type of mic -and they are all engraved the same way.  I'm really happy with this arrangement so far.

I'm still "evaluating" a particular style of dial calipers and have not drawn any conclusions.  They are marked for SAE and Metric and are pretty good so far.  In another couple years, I'll know if they pass the test.


... To all the other folks replying...   you don't have to announce you're newbies.  We're talking personal preferences here so, just jump in and BS about why you do or don't like your current style of measuring instruments.


Ray


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## wrmiller (Jan 18, 2018)

Sir...I'd like my name put in your will (just in case), next to those Sherr Tumicos please?


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## Aaron_W (Jan 18, 2018)

Did anyone else read the thread title to the tune of Home on the range...





Bob Korves said:


> The DRO is no doubt easier on the old eyes, and is easy to reset to zero.
> 
> If it was not that my eyes are getting worse, I would not have even considered getting one.




I had no interest in DRO until watching a video tour of Adam Savage's (one of the Myth buster guys) tour of his shop including his lathe and mill (Shenwai and Bridgeport). His has a nice monitor set up for the DRO and seeing the numbers in a nice large font and looking at the fine print on my dials, I suddenly understood the attraction.

I've just started down the path of reading glasses so it is very low priority, but it is now on the maybe someday list. If I ever outgrow my Sherlines, and start looking for something bigger, DRO will definitely be a consideration.


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## Eddyde (Jan 19, 2018)

Ray C said:


> What's next; Vinyl and Tube Amps?



My stereo:


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## hman (Feb 20, 2018)

Aw shucks, Eddy ... your turntable doesn't have a linear tracking tonearm ...


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## ch2co (Feb 20, 2018)

And no air bearings either!!
Shame


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## ch2co (Feb 20, 2018)

I know that I’ve seen one of those Amps before, but whose is it?? What kind of speakers are you driving? But what is that between those two components? DIGITAL? ( more shame) (place smiley face emoji here)


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## ch2co (Feb 20, 2018)

Back to the subject. DRO’s are well worthwhile even with modest equipment. Mine are quite rudimentary but that is do to change soon. I’m still wavering between Yuriys and a package deal. I like the idea of using a single tablet that I can switch between mill to lathe, and the possibility of readily changing the software in the future. It’s also cheaper.


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## magicniner (Feb 20, 2018)

I found a DRO on the lathe to be a transformational experience, initially I only fitted the cross slide scale, as the bed scale mounting required some thinking about [5 years thinking about as it happens  ], I found that by taking a light surfacing pass then a cut of my planned finishing DOC then setting the DRO I could take huge roughing reductions down to finished size+finish cut and drop in on the finished size I wanted quickly and easily. 

Roll on 5 years and I had an inspiration for fitting the longitudinal scale and have found that to be as much or more useful than the cross slide. 
I make a lot of things which have several ODs with grooves and shoulders and also some internal bores and grooves. For instance, to cut an internal groove one zeros the DRO with tool contacting the face, wind it into the bore by the tool width, zero the DRO again and then position your groove and cut it, all with big, easily read numbers at head hight 
Re-positioning the tool when cutting threads away from an internal shoulder is stupidly easy and quick to set up. 

If it's all about the "experience" for you, you have more time on your hands than you can use and you can't see the point of getting things done quickly and efficiently then this particular way of dragging yourself kicking and screaming and somewhat tardily into the 20th Century might not be for you! 
 - Nick


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## Eddyde (Feb 20, 2018)

hman said:


> Aw shucks, Eddy ... your turntable doesn't have a linear tracking tonearm ...





ch2co said:


> And no air bearings either!!
> Shame


LOL, Well, I have too many expensive hobbies, sacrifices have to be made...


ch2co said:


> I know that I’ve seen one of those Amps before, but whose is it?? What kind of speakers are you driving? But what is that between those two components? DIGITAL? ( more shame) (place smiley face emoji here)


The amp is a Velleman KT 4040, it was a kit, I built it in 03. the thing in the middle is the preamp a Velleman 8021 kit, not digital. Speakers are B&W DM110. Sounds great, at least good enough for me


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## Boswell (Feb 20, 2018)

magicniner said:


> I found a DRO on the lathe to be a transformational experience



I could not agree more.


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## MrWhoopee (Feb 21, 2018)

I just installed a cheap ($182 delivered) DRO on my SB Heavy 10. I was primarily interested in the x-axis, as it has no means to measure that travel. I ordered both axes anyway, my eyes are not getting any better. I haven't mounted the y-axis yet, it's a little more complicated than the x. Nice unit, seems well made and nicely finished. Accuracy and repeatability are within .0005 from the testing I've been able to do (using 2 in. mic standard). More than good enough for the girls I date. Get one, you won't regret it.


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## ch2co (Feb 21, 2018)

Whoopee
Who's system is this? Where did you get it? Why haven't we seen any of the required pictures of this installation?


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## MrWhoopee (Feb 21, 2018)

ch2co said:


> Whoopee
> Who's system is this? Where did you get it? Why haven't we seen any of the required pictures of this installation?



I thought you'd never ask.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fre...32721078052.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.nu0aw9


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## RandyM (Feb 21, 2018)

MrWhoopee said:


> I thought you'd never ask.



We'd prefer not to. We're hoping you are more willing to share.

By the way, that is a really nice machine.  Looks like it is pretty well equipped.


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## ch2co (Feb 21, 2018)

Very nice, thank you.


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## jbolt (Feb 21, 2018)

Late to the party but I'll add my two cents worth.

I did my apprenticeship counting turns, marking dials with grease pencils, setting up indicators for final depths, blah blah blah etc. Been there done that. Though I got out of the machining trade, when I bought my first home shop mill an lathe 20 years ago I installed a DRO and have never looked back. Much less chance for error, setups are quicker, parts are easier and quicker to produce. 

I don't sneak up on finish cuts. I do an initial cut at my finish depth and feed / speed, measure and set the DRO. Rough at whatever the machine / material will handle and do my finish pass at the same depth I set the DRO. Never had a problem hitting the same number within a few tenths.

To me that art of machining is figuring out the most efficient and/or cost effective way hold and make a part. What steps, tools, jigs, fixtures and in what order. Cranking handles is the easy part. 

Now for the pure hobbyist who enjoys the full experience of manual machining and just working on a machine and doesn't have the desire for more modern systems I say go for it. 

As for measuring tools I have a first generation Mitutoyo 6" digital caliper and a two year old version of the same. The both perform exactly the same with zero issues (except for me stupidly measuring a rare earth magnet once, miserable to demagnetize). Batteries last a year or more with daily use.  I prefer these to my 35 year old Starret and Mitutoyo dials. Much less susceptible to debris/contamination. I don't view calipers as high precision instruments as they are only good to .001". HF calipers are good for woodworking.

I don't mind reading veneer micrometers but I recently acquired a very nice Mitutoyo digital 0-1" micrometer. Game changer for doing sub .001" work.


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## Ray C (Feb 21, 2018)

OK, OK.  Uncle, Uncle!    I'll get one.   I'm almost (see note) ready to get a new lathe and I'll order it with DRO.

NOTE:  Almost = 99.93649% certain with a margin of error of 15% .  

Ray


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## ronboult (Feb 21, 2018)

Hi Ray
I am sure you know, but get a 1micron scale for the X axis so you can use either Radius or Diam settings ( another point for discussion).
Secondly while most people seem to be going for cheap Chinese systems with glass scales, may I suggest you invest a little more in the newer miniature magnetic scales( Ditron, Electronica S1 or the even smaller EMC14). Magnetic scales are even easier to fit and are contamination resistant. Important for the X axis.
Finally my lathe was supplied with a cheap Chinese Display (Delos) but similar displays are available under many different brands. While it worked OK I found it a pain to use. Lots of Menu driven settings with many button presses. I threw it away and replaced it with a Easson 12B. What a pleasure to use. I am sure the Electronica models( expensive) that Dro Pros sell are just as good.

Good to see you entering the 22 Century
Ron


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## Ray C (Feb 21, 2018)

ronboult said:


> Hi Ray
> I am sure you know, but get a 1micron scale for the X axis so you can use either Radius or Diam settings ( another point for discussion).
> Secondly while most people seem to be going for cheap Chinese systems with glass scales, may I suggest you invest a little more in the newer miniature magnetic scales( Ditron, Electronica S1 or the even smaller EMC14). Magnetic scales are even easier to fit and are contamination resistant. Important for the X axis.
> Finally my lathe was supplied with a cheap Chinese Display (Delos) but similar displays are available under many different brands. While it worked OK I found it a pain to use. Lots of Menu driven settings with many button presses. I threw it away and replaced it with a Easson 12B. What a pleasure to use. I am sure the Electronica models( expensive) that Dro Pros sell are just as good.
> ...



I don't know Ron...  Sounded good at first but after looking at the prices of a magnetic scale setup, I'm thinking travel indicators aren't so bad.

One of the reasons I stayed away from a DRO in the first place was the additional crowding of space on the carriage.

---Gunna go climb under my 19th Century rock and go think some more about this.

Ray


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## ronboult (Feb 21, 2018)

Ray
How much money have you got invested in your machine shop? The EXTRA COST of a minature magnetic scale for the X axis (Ditron or Electronica) and a decent readout such as Easson 12B is peanuts in the overall cost of a machine shop. I have spent many many times my DRO cost in tools. But I use my DRO's every time I use my machines. Good quality magnetic scales and readouts can be purchased reliably from China (via Aliexpress) at much reduced prices. 

My advice is a Lathe ( & Mill) DRO is essential if you want to improve your machining don't want to make mistakes. I suspect once you get one and settle into using it (your way) you won't go back. Several well respected contributors have given you excellent advice on how a DRO can be used to achieve fast repeatable accuracy. Sure machining skill is important but the DRO just adds to that.
A good quality DRO is money very very well spent.
Ron


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## Ray C (Feb 21, 2018)

ronboult said:


> Ray
> How much money have you got invested in your machine shop? The EXTRA COST of a minature magnetic scale for the X axis (Ditron or Electronica) and a decent readout such as Easson 12B is peanuts in the overall cost of a machine shop. I have spent many many times my DRO cost in tools. But I use my DRO's every time I use my machines. Good quality magnetic scales and readouts can be purchased reliably from China (via Aliexpress) at much reduced prices.
> 
> My advice is a Lathe ( & Mill) DRO is essential if you want to improve your machining don't want to make mistakes. I suspect once you get one and settle into using it (your way) you won't go back. Several well respected contributors have given you excellent advice on how a DRO can be used to achieve fast repeatable accuracy. Sure machining skill is important but the DRO just adds to that.
> ...



Oh I know but, I'm not doing this for regular profit anymore and the pace of things is pretty slow -and will be for the foreseeable future.  I have DRO on the mill and acknowledge that it's indispensable.  I get it... 

I'll probably go with a DRO.  1um scales seem like over-kill as no machine I've ever work on can predictably cut better than a half thou so, 0.0002 resolution is more than adequate.  0.000005?   Too bad the standard scales can't be reduced in physical size.    It's the amount of real-estate that the scales take-up on carriage that bugs me.   It's hard to keep that area clean and having an additional component up there makes me snarl just thinking about it.

Ray


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## mksj (Feb 21, 2018)

There are SlimLine glass scales that are used on the cross slide, they are much smaller than standard glass scales. I have magnetic scales on my mill and glass on my PM1340GT, so familiar with both. The most bang for the buck is the ES12B or C (same unit just one has a vertical format, the other is horizontal) with glass scales. You need 1 micron SlimLine (GS31) on the cross slide axis because typically you use diameter mode so with a 5 micron scale the numbers jumps in 0.0004 increments which drives one nuts.  Although you may not "need" the 1 micron resolution, the display numbers and accuracy make a significant difference. The cost difference is only $30-50 for upgrading to a SlimLine scale.  On the long Z axis the standard 5 micron (GS10) scales work well. Magnetic scales are easy to cut/adjusted and more impervious to contamination, but they are significantly more expensive. If you run a lot of flood coolant then maybe worthwhile, but if on a budget glass scales are very reliable and durable if properly installed.

"Radius mode" vs. "Diameter mode"
http://www.dropros.com/DRO_PROS_Lathe_Digital_Readout.htm


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## ronboult (Feb 21, 2018)

Ray
The recommendation for a 1um scale on the x-axis is because if you switch from Radius to Diam measurements the resolution is halved. You don't need to take my advice on this as many others have commented on the same issue.

Actually for general turning my preferred setting is Diam and I only change to radius when grooving or threading. This is a personal preference and others prefer Radius. My lathe Cross Slide Dial is actually graduated in Diam so this is an advantage for threading.

The new tape scales that use the EMC14 Readheads are so small that you will hardly notice they are there. Check them out. See http://www.ems-i.co.uk/EMC14 Datasheet (V2).pdf I think DROPROS also sell them or you can buy them from Electronica in India.
I have a slightly larger Electronica S1 1um scale & readhead for my lathe X axis and it is about 1/4 the size of the glass scale it is replacing and also considerable shorter for the same read distance. They can also be easily cut to length so there size can be minimised
Ron

EDIT
Ray mksj posted while I was typing.
My only comment is that the newer magnetic scales are much smaller than Slimline Glass and are much virtually impervious to contamination


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## Groundhog (Feb 21, 2018)

> The new tape scales that use the EMC14 Readheads are so small that you will hardly notice they are there. Check them out. See http://www.ems-i.co.uk/EMC14 Datasheet (V2).pdf I think DROPROS also sell them or you can buy them from Electronica in India.
> 
> My only comment is that the newer magnetic scales are much smaller than Slimline Glass and are much virtually impervious to contamination



There are pictures of the EM14C readheads and the Magna Slim magnetic scales in my DRO installation thread a few weeks ago; https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/new-ultra-small-dro-just-installed.66384/#post-553743  So far the whole system has been great.


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