# General Discussions of Atlas Lathes



## great white

Generally, I find the Atlas lathes are put down by professionals and sort "damned with faint praise" by hobbyists (IE:it's good enough).

Now, I still haven't picked mine up (10X36 or maybe a 42, remains to be seen) but I would like to address any "flexibility" items while I'm cleaning, restoring and setting it up. 

I say flexibility since that seems to be the major thing that is usually pointed out. Is it the ways that are "flexible"? or is it in the cross slide? the head? 

Is it the width of the ways perhaps?

Or perhaps it's only "flexible" when compared to a 3000 lb dedicated shop type lathe?

I need to build a stand for the atlas and I was thinking I like a lot of the things this gent mentions with a "beam" mounting:

[video=youtube;ztA-0KSi1FM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztA-0KSi1FM[/video]

I like the ease of access to the chip tray, I like the added space under the hand wheels, I like the way it manages dripping oil (or coolant if I ever build that) and if it actually does add a degree of stiffness to the lathe for greater accuracy, I'm sold. 

I will have to build a stand for my atlas either way. The guy I'm buying it from has it mounted on a rather nasty looking 2x4 and plywood arrangement and I don't think it even comes with the lathe. I'd probably be tossing it even if it did. 

I was also thinking of eventually changing out the "lantern" tool holder for a QCTP, but am unsure if that wold do anything for accuracy or not. I'm not doing production stuff so ease and speed of changing tools is not a high priority, but would probably be a welcome addition in the convenience dept. Would be a while before it happens anyways, the budget can only take so much stretching and I'm buying a new welder this month also (Millermatic 211).

I'm not looking to turn out high precision work with the old atlas, but I would like to get the most out of it that I can. If I can do that while building a stand, more the better!

I know that's kind of a broad topic post, but any input or explanation on why the Atlas seems to have such a bad wrap (and ways of fixing it) would be welcome. 

Cheers


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## David S

GW I think everything is relative.  I started many years ago as a hobbyist with a Unimat db200.  I did a lot of work with it and learned about machining...and patience .  Then I moved up to an Atlas 618 in 1973 which I still have to day and is my go to lathe for everything that I do.  I make and repair clock parts and fixtures and jigs.  I have used my friend's much larger and stiffer lathe and I can take deeper cuts etc.  But for what I do, this lathe suits me just fine and I am very used to its limits and work within them.  I have lot's of accessories for the Atlas, plus special stuff that I have made for it, so it ain't going to leave any time soon.

I bet that your 12x36 will suit your needs assuming that it is in reasonable shape.

David


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## stupoty

I prefer the styling of older smaller lathes, all the space around the head stock compaired to more modern cubist styled lathes makes life a bit easier (from my limited experience) 

Stuart


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## Holescreek

I've had a variety of South Bends, an Atlas, Hardinge, Logan and a Cincinnati Tratop. Currently I have the Traytop and the Atlas (was my grandfathers). The upside of the Atlas is low cost and lots of spare parts. The Downside of the Atlas are the Zamak (zinc alloy) gears, soft flat bed ways, and lack of mass/rigidity. My favorite of the low cost machines was the Logan 820. 

That said, zillions of good quality turned products have been produced on Atlas lathes. The machine isn't the key component in good parts, it's the machinist.  A good machinist can make good parts on any machine.


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## Round in circles

In like the idea of that heavy stand but would say that from the picture it looks to be mounted too far back from the operator . 

I feel that ideally you need to be able to see the tool tip when it is cutting whilst standing reasonably straight up , not having to bend over to see what your doing as this leads to fatigue and the tendency to use the lathe to push yourself up right after an hour or so of turning .

  I have my lathe set on a fairly strong cast iron leg set which is bolted to a 2 inch thick beech block for the table top . 
This last week I've set it in a welded 2 inch angle iron steel frame where the lathe stands on two 670 mm long 4 inch wide , 3 inches high  " U "  shaped channels of 1/2 " thick steel .
The frame  has two fully rotating lockable & two fixed  heavy duty 4 inch high nylon castors under it so I can move it out to clean under it or recover lost items under it if needed .

 In a few weeks time I hope I'll be using home made machine feet set in the angle iron/ cross channel sections of the frame to take it off the castors and for levelling /truing it up properly & rigidly


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## mattthemuppet2

it's all relative. My current lathe is so flexy that I can push the headstock 40thou in one direction with my hand, yet I can still make good things on it and hold acceptable tolerances for what I do. My next lathe is a "618" which will be a HUGE step up in rigidity and performance 

If you're working for money, sure it wouldn't be ideal, but to be honest you'd most likely be looking in a totally different class of machine or even CNC anyway. If you have the time and patience you can do what ever you want that will fit. It will really teach you important things about depth of cut, cutting bit geometries (and sharpness!) and all sorts of other useful skills.


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## great white

Round in circles said:


> In like the idea of that heavy stand but would say that from the picture it looks to be mounted too far back from the operator .
> 
> I feel that ideally you need to be able to see the tool tip when it is cutting whilst standing reasonably straight up , not having to bend over to see what your doing as this leads to fatigue and the tendency to use the lathe to push yourself up right after an hour or so of turning .



Excellent considerations, especially when it sounds like I'll be making lighter cuts and taking longer on most jobs with the atlas.


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## Ulma Doctor

atlas lathes are not bad lathes, they have shortcomings- as any piece of shop equipment will invariably have.
the onus then becomes the operators when a machine is lightly constructed.
it can do the same work as a slightly larger lathe, only at a generally slower rate of production.
it takes way more skill and/or patience to run a worn or light lathe.
you'll need to take lighter cuts and slower feed rates , but it will eventually do the same work as a larger lathe.
many fine things are produced with modest machines and skilled operators.


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## pdentrem

I had an Atlas for 20 years. Did all sorts of work on it. Free, trade, or pay, it worked for me. I traded up to a heavier lathe, mostly to get into a QCGB, as even here in Ontario the version you are looking at is usually a bit pricy and heavily used. I bought my currently lathe for just a bit more than what I would have had to pay for the Atlas version.

While as noted that a heavier lathe will take bigger cuts, most times the finishing cut will be the same on either lathe. No matter the size of the lathe, there will always be flex some where.

Just enjoy that you will be able to make stuff and don't be surprised that your neighbors start bugging you for help repairing or replacing their stuff! I know mine did and do!
Pierre


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## Smudgemo

When I got my Atlas, it was mounted to a desk which worked fine, but as noted earlier standing closer makes for easier use.  I wouldn't want to go back to this setup.



If you're building a stand, you might consider something like the one I did.  You get the perfect height, it's easy to be up close and you end up with tons of tool storage that ought to make for a more solid foundation.  Maybe not, but it can't hurt, right?




I seriously doubt this will be my last lathe, but it's my first and it's done everything I've asked of it.  Parts of all sorts are available and not terribly expensive.  The gears are poo-pooed, but I don't have a single chipped tooth or broken anything.  I'd like to switch the motor for a 3 phase + VFD and make the *ATLAS/CRAFTSMAN  TYPE CROSS SLIDE (A-11)* project from Metal Lathe, but that's just daydreaming for fun...

-Ryan


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## wa5cab

Great White,

Second to a good stand, bench or cabinet, the QCTP will probably do more for improving rigidity than anything else that you can do.  And more for convenience.

Robert D.


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## iron man

I have had an Atlas a long time and yes I have made modifications to cure some of the down falls but I would challenge anyone to machine something more accurate with the same size lathe. I grew up on a south bend and believe me they have plenty of down falls as well some atlas parts would appear beefy in comparison. A poor operator blames an atlas lathe.. Ray


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## Holescreek

I ran across a couple of pics of my grandfather's lathe right after I rebuilt it. I've only used the lathe once in the 8 years since.


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## mce5802

+1 for qctp adding a lot of rigidity. That'd be my first investment.


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## caveBob

Holescreek said:


> I ran across a couple of pics of my grandfather's lathe right after I rebuilt it. I've only used the lathe once in the 8 years since.



Beautiful restoration Holescreek, I'm sure your Grand Dad would be proud of the job you did! Can't quite make out for sure but it looks like you scraped the ways too?

I did mine in black as well, used hammered alkaline and it's held up pretty well, what did you use? Again, kudos...


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## great white

So it sounds like the plan is solid stand/bench first, then a QCTP second.

Would perhaps a linked belt be a worthwhile improvement after those two things are sorted?

My lathe will have to be "moveable", I've already got a design in my mind for a beam type table with a hydraulic lifting mechanism for casters. Basically, a relatively affordable 10/20 ton bottle jack and a retractable caster frame. The stand will rest on the concrete on it's solid legs once the casters are retracted. 

It won't be moved much, but in a 1 car garage that shares space with my woodworking tools and a 1962 thunderbird when I need to move it for space it has to move....


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## pdentrem

The table/stand needs to be stiff, and the beam was a thought I had as well but never got there. 

Definitely get an AXA tool post. It was the best $100 (at that time) upgrade that I made. Instant gratification! Be sure to get a few more holders. I bought another 5 of the Type A and should of gotten ten more. I find that I need to swap tools in the holder too many times. Also look at a tangential tool holder.

A link belt will help reduce vibrations from the drivetrain reaching the spindle. It is not a total cure, but does wonders. I get much smoother cuts on the table saw. As the belts on my equipment require replacement, I swap them to link belts. At work I am swapping the belts in our machines there as well. Reduces down time not having to disassemble a multi thousand dollar machine for a $10 belt.
Pierre


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## Holescreek

caveBob said:


> Beautiful restoration Holescreek, I'm sure your Grand Dad would be proud of the job you did! Can't quite make out for sure but it looks like you scraped the ways too?
> 
> I did mine in black as well, used hammered alkaline and it's held up pretty well, what did you use? Again, kudos...



The lathe was used by my grandfather for about 30 years then by my uncle for another 30 after that.  The bed ways were worn .025" for the first 18" from the head.  The cross-slide was worn about .012" and even the compound had a few thousandths wear.  I hand scraped the bed, surface ground and scraped the rest and painted with Rustoleum Hammered metal finish.

I intended to pass it along to a family member but sadly, I'm the last of the machinists and no one in the family is interested.


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## caveBob

Holescreek said:


> The lathe was used by my grandfather for about 30 years then by my uncle for another 30 after that.  The bed ways were worn .025" for the first 18" from the head.  The cross-slide was worn about .012" and even the compound had a few thousandths wear.  I hand scraped the bed, surface ground and scraped the rest and painted with Rustoleum Hammered metal finish.
> 
> I intended to pass it along to a family member but sadly, I'm the last of the machinists and no one in the family is interested.



I've never scraped anything myself so only have admiration for those that do/can...

Gosh, hope _*someone*_ in the family will develop at least a curiosity about machining or gets interested... funny thing life is sometimes huh?


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## caveBob

great white said:


> *So it sounds like the plan is solid stand/bench first*, then a QCTP second.
> 
> Would perhaps a linked belt be a worthwhile improvement after those two things are sorted?
> 
> My lathe will have to be "moveable", I've already got a design in my mind for a beam type table with a hydraulic lifting mechanism for casters. Basically, a relatively affordable 10/20 ton bottle jack and a retractable caster frame. The stand will rest on the concrete on it's solid legs once the casters are retracted.
> 
> It won't be moved much, but in a 1 car garage that *shares space with my woodworking tools* and a 1962 thunderbird when I need to move it for space it has to move....



How are you setup for tools? Hand tools mostly or power? Reason I ask, torsion boxes work terrifically for making a very strong, stable base. It's what I did, and would do it again even if it was a fair amount of work...

I'll see if I can find or take some pics if you want of the bench and the motor belt tensioning thingamabob I made. When I first got the lathe, that was my #1 first goal: removing/deadening vibrations.


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## great white

caveBob said:


> How are you setup for tools? Hand tools mostly or power? Reason I ask, torsion boxes work terrifically for making a very strong, stable base. It's what I did, and would do it again even if it was a fair amount of work...
> 
> I'll see if I can find or take some pics if you want of the bench and the motor belt tensioning thingamabob I made. When I first got the lathe, that was my #1 first goal: removing/deadening vibrations.



Power my friend, all power. With hand tools as a backup. 

I'm picking up a millermatic 211 shortly after we move into the new house and I bring home the lathe. The lathe will sit on the floor for a month or two (not in use) and two of the first projects the miller and the chop saw will get is a welding table and the lathe stand. 

Would like to see pics if you have them. 

I'm actually considering tearing apart our old treadmill (well, no that old but no one uses it anymore) and using the motor/controller to power the Atlas. BUt that's another project for a year or so down the road. Too much else is a priority right now. 

Only reason I'm getting the lathe in the first place is I was recently paid out by DVA for a service injury. I want to get a few things for myself that I've been lusting after for a long time (wife agrees). It's never long before life intrudes and siphones all the money away. A lathe will give me something to to occupy me and take my mind off my "demons".....:soldier2:


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## caveBob

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## caveBob

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## great white

Looks like a power lead screw?

Any info on that?

That one looks nicely done.

What is that on the back of the ways? Is it a carriage stop? A gauge holder? etc?

And is that a foot kill switch? I've thought about rigging something up like that but as a type of deadman switch since I work alone in the garage most times.

I see lots of neat details on your Atlas that I like!

:thumbzup:


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## caveBob

Thanks, mods please forgive me for just linking somewhere else here - it's just easier for me to post a link than reconstruct it here. Anyway, the motor, speed and other info is here.

Nah, the pedal should have been put away... it's for the "Foredom-like" flex grinder I was using for something... hanging out...


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## great white

caveBob said:


> Thanks, mods please forgive me for just linking somewhere else here - it's just easier for me to post a link than reconstruct it here. Anyway, the motor, speed and other info is here.
> 
> Nah, the pedal should have been put away... it's for the "Foredom-like" flex grinder I was using for something... hanging out...



For my own learning, what is powering the leadscrew good for?

Is it just to get very slow feed rates?

I assume you can't do threading with it since its not linked to the spindle speed any longer?


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## kd4gij

So, what makes an Atlas lathe so "bad"?

 Just people that like knocking on outher peoply.
I have had my Crastfman Atlas 12x36 lathe for about 15 years. I make just as good and acurite parts as the much larger lathes I run at work.


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## caveBob

great white said:


> For my own learning, what is powering the leadscrew good for?
> 
> Is it just to get very slow feed rates?
> 
> I assume you can't do threading with it since its not linked to the spindle speed any longer?



Yeup, pretty much. Like you said, for turning not threading, I can't tell you how nice it is to tune the speed of the cutter feed rate, up or down, to avoid chatter/harmonics. It works great for that and like for grinding bores or bearing races.

From a wacky experiment:







When I got the lathe it was missing a few parts in the geartrain so haven't been able to thread to date. A fix for that is in the works though (QCGB retrofit).


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## Round in circles

Holescreek said:


> The lathe was used by my grandfather for about 30 years then by my uncle for another 30 after that.  The bed ways were worn .025" for the first 18" from the head.  The cross-slide was worn about .012" and even the compound had a few thousandths wear.  I hand scraped the bed, surface ground and scraped the rest and painted with Rustoleum Hammered metal finish.
> 
> I intended to pass it along to a family member but sadly, I'm the last of the machinists and no one in the family is interested.




 It sounds like a divorce is on the cards then,  moving on to a new younger model perhaps like I did ?   Just make sure all your gear is at a pals house first  .


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## outsider347

I use/enjoy my 12x36.
the only thing I wish would be for a bit larger spindle bore


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## mrbreezeet1

CaveBob, l want to see that QCGB. 
I know, I know, Get my DC motor going. 
I still have to finish the powered leadscrew too. 
The thing that always got me about the Logan, you might have gears set up for a nice slow finish cut,( Right to left)  but then to do a cross cut, it seemed way faster. 
The D/C leadscrew motor hopefully will take care of that. It has started to warm up here, So I either need to get on it, or come up with a new excuse.....................LOL.

I did do some wiring tonight though for the 1/2 HP DC motor. 
I might have to go out and buy some 16AWG tomorrow.


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## caveBob

Touché mrbreezeet1, gotta get that mill running first to cut the slot in the new leadscrew... it's tough being patient when you have to huh...


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## bob308

back when I bought my 12x36 atlas I was a welder. so I built a stand out of a piece of  10" h beam. the legs were 3"pipe with 3/8 wall. with bracing I think it weighed a little over 200 lb. with out the lathe on it. never had problems with flex. used that setup for 25 years.  then I moved up to a 14 1/2" south bend  with a quick change gear box.

nothing wrong with the lathe most problems are how and what they are mounted on.


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## Round in circles

O/P , I read your first post a long time ago & have just  re read the whole thread a few minutes ago .

I notice you said you were thinking of getting a  QCTP  .. hang onto the lantern tool post holder  there are some jobs that it is best to use it for .


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## ndnchf

They are not bad lathes, anyone who says that is just ignorant. They have their limitations. But if used within these limitations, they are fine. I have a 12x24 that I've owned for over 30 years. I've made hundreds of parts on it over the years. There have been a few times that I wished for a larger lathe, but only a few. It has served me well and is like an old friend.

By all means, add an AXA QCTP. It will make using the lathe much more enjoyable.


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## gilo

Accuracy depends on the operator, who by experience, will be familiar with the idiosyncrasies of his individual machine. Let me say that as a new member, I hope to be treated with forbearance and tolerance as one new to advanced lathe work on the Atlas  12 - the mere mention of which will  invite scorn and derision on another forum I could  name. Glad to be here.


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## ndnchf

Not so here, you are among Atlas friends.


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## ghostdncr

I recently acquired a Craftsman-badged Atlas 12 x 24 Model 101.07380 (1936 vintage, I believe) and while the machine has a full ton of shortcomings, it's all about context. With skill and patience, one can do marvelous work on one of these simple machines. If I needed to turn 80,000 round widgets on a tight delivery schedule, I'd get Mazak on the phone and let the Atlas sit idle. I believe many bad mouth these lathes because they've pushed them far beyond their design capabilities and when the machine failed to achieve their ridiculous expectations, blame was cast upon the machine. Used within their original design envelope by a skilled operator, they can do some exquisite work.


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## gilo

I don't think I can speak to the "flexibility" issue as my 12x36  is a underdrive model mounted to it's cabinet made, primarily,  of 3/16" steel. I do think  the cross slide a bit shortish and under weight and so could contribute to a problem here.


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## gilo

I know many problems occur  when lathes are affixed to flimsy tables. On service calls to older (100yrs +)  companies in the Mid West or North East I noticed that many, if not all, lathes were mounted to cast iron legs or heavily timbered  (6" x 6" oak legs) well braced with 3 to 4 inch thick tops  and these were not the big ones! 
For Craftsman /Atlas lathes one would do well to consider a welded steel table (not thin wall tubing, not sheet metal)  for maximum rigidity.


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## FOMOGO

That's just one of the great things about this place, no bad attitudes, just helpful folks with a will to improve what they have and make it the best it can be. I would no more get rid of my atlas than I would my old Harley. I have a bigger/better machine now, but you don't throw out your first born just because you have another child. Who knows, maybe I'm a little too sentimental. Mike


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## Bill Rosselot

Ive got an old Atlas 10 QC42Ive not repainted it just made it run.  It is not the best is is worn in places but she is a good old girl not going to win any beauty contests and she is not a bench queen.  I would like to have a 14" gearhead lathe but the budget does not allow for that yet.  I will have another lathe very soon that is an old Willard that is a 13 x 36 and when I get it put back together I plan on rebuilding this Atlas.  And I will probably completely disassemble and go through every part and bring it back to original shape.   I have most of the attachments for it.  Plus a quick change tool post.  But I think they do a good job yes they are not the 3000 pound monster that can take .500 per pass but if you take your time they do work well.  One thing over the last few years the parts have been harder and harder to come by.


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## Bill Rosselot

FOMOGO said:


> That's just one of the great things about this place, no bad attitudes, just helpful folks with a will to improve what they have and make it the best it can be. I would no more get rid of my atlas than I would my old Harley. I have a bigger/better machine now, but you don't throw out your first born just because you have another child. Who knows, maybe I'm a little too sentimental. Mike
> 
> View attachment 228705


Mike you have a follower rest I found one but need to build one new adjuster bolt and guide can you tell me what they make the guides from its not brass????  Thanks for the help Bill


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## ndnchf

You might consider using roller fingers rather than the original bronze one. They are much smoother.


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## FOMOGO

Bill, I'm not back home until next month. I haven't had a chance to use the follower rest on mine yet, it was just on there for the pic, and can't recall what the guides are made from. As said above the roller style work well, but I think for most operations bronze or even mild steel would probably be fine. Cast iron might work well also. Cheers, Mike


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## Bill Rosselot

ndnchf said:


> You might consider using roller fingers rather than the original bronze one. They are much smoother.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 228732


Looks like I will have to make some.  Thanks  I plan to make a steady rest also so I maybe asking for some measurements if possible.  Thanks again.

Bill


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## ndnchf

I got mine from ebay.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Atlas-Craftsm...ingers-with-Bearings-/201847242988?nav=SEARCH


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## Bill Rosselot

FOMOGO said:


> Bill, I'm not back home until next month. I haven't had a chance to use the follower rest on mine yet, it was just on there for the pic, and can't recall what the guides are made from. As said above the roller style work well, but I think for most operations bronze or even mild steel would probably be fine. Cast iron might work well also. Cheers, Mike


I think they are bronze cast but not sure.  I think I'm going to build a set of roller fingers for it.


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## schor

I have a th54 and I have thought about upgrading to something else, but it suits my needs perfectly.

I think what happens on some sites is that the 'professionals' don't want to bother answering questions from the amateurs.

I made new fingers out of ampco bronze.

Check out my youtube channel for some vids on my atlas. I did an x-axis dro, qctp locking handle, teardown of a th54 and various others vids. I am working on putting a qcgb on the lathe and have some videos coming out on that soon. (I hope)


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## Round in circles

Bill Rosselot said:


> Looks like I will have to make some.  Thanks  I plan to make a steady rest also so I maybe asking for some measurements if possible.  Thanks again.
> 
> Bill


 Bill could you make them in steel then & drill the ends for  grub screw located pointed brass or phosphor bronze rods or even tap for brass or phosphor bronze screws as the bearing surfaces ?

 When it gets a bit warmer for me to playout  in the unheated mancupboard I'll be having to adapt a small set of supports which were almost brand new for some modern lathe .
The bearing arms are a hardish brass square rod that has been milled out for the locking screws .
I guess that when / if they get too worn down I might be able to invert them to get a bit more use out of them .


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## mrbreezeet1

great white said:


> Looks like a power lead screw?
> 
> Any info on that?
> 
> That one looks nicely done.
> 
> What is that on the back of the ways? Is it a carriage stop? A gauge holder? etc?
> 
> And is that a foot kill switch? I've thought about rigging something up like that but as a type of deadman switch since I work alone in the garage most times.
> 
> I see lots of neat details on your Atlas that I like!
> 
> :thumbzup:


Old thread, but Cave Bob helped me with my powered leadscrew feed project. 
Mine uses a Jeep wiper motor. 
Best mod I've done to my 10" Logan. (No QCGB) 

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## mrbreezeet1

His is a cleaner job than mine. But mine works. 

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## wa5cab

I trust that you do understand that you cannot cut threads with a lead screw driven by a separate motor?


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## mrbreezeet1

_^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"I trust that you do understand that you cannot cut threads with a lead screw driven by a separate motor"? _
True, You will still need to use the proper gear arrangement in order to cut threads.
Note that TPI same as or multiples of the lead screw do not require use of the thread dial.
Say if your lead screw is 8 TPI,   Threads, 8, 16, 24, 32 TPI


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## wa5cab

That's true in one case (that of making a good thread) but not in the other purpose for the threading dial.  Which is to show the operator when he/she can engage the traverse feed without potential damage to the screw or to the half-nuts.


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## mrbreezeet1

so even if I'm doing 8, 16, 24, 32 TPI, I still have to watch it?


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## wa5cab

You don't have to.  But using the dial will prevent a lot of grinding on the nuts. When used for an engagement guide, it doesn't matter which line you use to close on.  But over the past 37 years, my dial has usually been disengaged only when for some reason I was removing it from the carriage (like to gain better access to the carriage clamp).


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