# My PM45M-PDF



## darkzero

I'm new here & I'm liking it here so far so I plan to stick around for a while if you'll have me. I didn't do the introduction thing so I'll consider this post as it. 

Found this place after I just got a new mill of my own. The only vertical mills I have used are Bridgeports at the local college & I'm excited to have my own now. It's a PM45M with power down feed. Just got it standing this past Friday.
























As usual Matt's great to deal with & he hooked my up with some extras.











Some other stuff from GMT & Bison/TMX











The riser & built for it.











Here it is standing next to my PM1236 that I got in 2009.






Thanks for looking.

Will


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## Blackhawk

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

That's a real nice setup you have, that is a much nicer looking mill than my dm-45.
rob


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## Ray C

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

Hi.  Welcome...

I've got the same mill and like it a lot.  It's served me well in the last couple years.  I'd suggest that after a couple months, change the oil in the gearbox.  Sometimes the sand comes out of the castings and flushing it out is a good thing to do.  I presume you got it from Matt and he recommends 68 or 100 ISO hydraulic oil which is what I use.

Ray


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## tripletap3

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

Congrats on the mill and glad to have you here. I have enjoyed your PM1236 posts on the CP forum while I have been waiting on a PM1236. It's been almost a year but it is in and is supposed to ship from QMT next week.  I was getting ready to order the same PM45 when I came across a steal on Craigslist for a older knee mill that looks like the grizzly G0730.


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## OakRidgeGuy

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

My next mill will be more than likely one of those as well..


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## tripletap3

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



OakRidgeGuy said:


> My next mill will be more than likely one of those as well..



Did you ever look at that post about the Starrett level? If you wanted to try to fix it I will give it to you.


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## OakRidgeGuy

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

Sent a PM to ya.


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

Thanks everyone!



Ray C said:


> Hi.  Welcome...
> 
> I've got the same mill and like it a lot.  It's served me well in the last couple years.  I'd suggest that after a couple months, change the oil in the gearbox.  Sometimes the sand comes out of the castings and flushing it out is a good thing to do.  I presume you got it from Matt and he recommends 68 or 100 ISO hydraulic oil which is what I use.
> 
> Ray



Thanks for the info Ray. Like my lathe, I will be changing the oil after running through each gear for 10 mins or so. I'll probabaly do that this weekend. I'll be using Mobil DTE ISO 68 as well as I still have a couple of gallons left. Do you remember roughly how much oil it holds?



tripletap3 said:


> Congrats on the mill and glad to have you here. I have enjoyed your PM1236 posts on the CP forum while I have been waiting on a PM1236. It's been almost a year but it is in and is supposed to ship from QMT next week.  I was getting ready to order the same PM45 when I came across a steal on Craigslist for a older knee mill that looks like the grizzly G0730.



Thanks! If there's any info/details I can help with the lathe I'll be more than happy to.


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## OakRidgeGuy

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

Question, how do you feel about the quality of the table that came with the lathe?


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



OakRidgeGuy said:


> Question, how do you feel about the quality of the table that came with the lathe?



Not sure what you mean, were you talking about the stand & chip pan for the lathe or the compound slide table for the mill?


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## OakRidgeGuy

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

For the lathe...


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

Both the stand for the lathe & mill have the same construction & IMO they lack quality. They're not cast iron which would be nice but they do the job. I wish I had a pul out chip tray rather than just the chip pan. It's annoying sometimes when it get full of swarf.

The 12x36 is still considered a bench top lathe & others have used their own benches to mount the lathe on. But I have no plans on changing the stand for the lathe because of the spindle foot brake. The foot brack assy is in the left side base & goes through the chip pan. The right side houses the coolant pump/tank which I don't use (not yet anyway). The section in the middle is just a cover & serves no purpose other than cosmetic.

The Grizzly stands for their lathes seem to look nicer but I've never actually seen one in person. If I did not have a foot brack I'd probably think about mounting the lathe on a bench with drawers under for storage.











The quality of the stand that I received for my mill is worse than my lathe. The door hinges bind & the welds aren't good at all. But again it does the job. The mill stand also has a door in the rear to house the coolant pump/tank. Why they choose to paint the inside that ugly yellow beats the hell out of me. I repainted the whole thing though inside & out.


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## OakRidgeGuy

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

Thank you for the feedback on the stands.. I am thinking about later next year of getting one of the PM lathes.. and I was truly curious about the quality of the stands.. I have a friend that is a welder.. might have him make me one and not worry about the one that Matt has.. though, I could possibly make a work station out of it.. 

Doc


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

No problem. I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble to go and make a new stand for it. Unless you had one ready to go or wanted to add storage underneath. The middle cover can be unbolted & some drawers could installed there. I've been thinking to cut out the chip pan & installed a pull out chip tray there. But that's a lot of work, maybe some day.


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

My mill originally had a DRO installed but since I ordered it without they took it off. Matt offered me an unbelieveable deal on the 3 axis DRO that came off my mill & I'd be an idiot for passing on such a steal. Better for me as all I had to do is bolt it back on & align it. And I'll be able to just change the display later.​​​​

​

​


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## sanddan

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

Do you have any pictures of the x-axis without the splash shield installed? I am wondering how the cross slide chip shield clears the reader head. I mounted my x-axis in the same place but haven't figured out the chip shield yet.


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



sanddan said:


> Do you have any pictures of the x-axis without the splash shield installed? I am wondering how the cross slide chip shield clears the reader head. I mounted my x-axis in the same place but haven't figured out the chip shield yet.



I needed to retap one of the holes this morning so here's a couple of pics. I was stumped at first too where to mount the read head when I first mounted the scale. Then when I removed the chip guard & saw the two holes for the read head, I then knew what these two mysterious spacers were for.


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## sanddan

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

Thanks for the pictures, I like the way that's mounted. I might have to trim my splash shield but that's not a big deal.

Thanks again.


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## Ray C

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

Here's a thought if you don't mind...  Before you trim those splash shields, consider installing a little piece of something to cover the ends.  I used a piece of vinyl that happened to be around and used silicone glue to hold it.  It's been sticking there for 2 years.  Also, I put a bead of silicone along the seam where it contacts the table.  -Makes a nice rain gutter and nothing at all gets on the sensors.


Ray




sanddan said:


> Thanks for the pictures, I like the way that's mounted. I might have to trim my splash shield but that's not a big deal.
> 
> Thanks again.


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## 514Ford

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

I am looking at a pm45.  In fact If Matt had one in stock it would be ordered by now.  Your pictures and post are helping me decide what to do.  Thanks


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



514Ford said:


> I am looking at a pm45. In fact If Matt had one in stock it would be ordered by now. Your pictures and post are helping me decide what to do. Thanks



I'm loving it so far but I'm so limited on tooling right now to put it to real use. I am happy I went with a dovetail column though that's for sure. Matt sent me a pic showing that new ones will have a quill DRO option. The one in the pic he sent me is blue now & no longer all white.


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

The drawbar that came with my mill is a piece of junk. the 7/16" thread was cut so poorly I don't think I could have copied the quality it if i tried to. It doesn't thread into an arbor smoothly & the whole draw bar wobbles bad. The metric thread on top was so loose, makes me wonder if I could thread a SAE nut on it! It works but I wanted to make a replacement for it. Nothing complicated but here's how I made it.


Here's what I started out with, 1/2" 1144 & hardened flange nuts.







Threaded the 7/16"-20.






Then threaded M10 & M12. This is the first time I have single pointed metric threads. It sucks not being able to use the half nuts & thread dial.






Here's the replacement next to the old. Luckily for me the 1144 bar I got was undersize so it just barely fits through my spindle, no need to turn it down.






Turned down the flanges on the nuts. The M12 nut (19mm hex) was turned down so the spline wrench could pass over it. The M10 nut (17mm) was turned down so the 19mm wrench could pass over it. I also faced the bottom of the M12 nut's flange to ensure it was nicely perpendicular to the thread. I'm using a double sided 17mm x 19mm ratchet wrench.











Used a roll pin to secure the top nut.
















Here's the new one next to the old one. I'm very happy with the way it turned out. Very smooth & no more wobbles!


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## 514Ford

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

Very Nice!!!!!!!!

Matt was talking about quite a few changes when I spoke with him.


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



514Ford said:


> Very Nice!!!!!!!!
> 
> Matt was talking about quite a few changes when I spoke with him.



Thanks!

Please share! )


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## 514Ford

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

There was a discussion of a ballscrew option with either manual cranks or brackets for cnc and talk of adding more weight and a few other things.  Dont know if he wants all his plans spread around lol


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



514Ford said:


> There was a discussion of a ballscrew option with either manual cranks or brackets for cnc and talk of adding more weight and a few other things.  Dont know if he wants all his plans spread around lol



True that, didn't think of that. He did mention to me about a CNC version though.


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

I received the bracket from Matt last week that comes on the non power downfeed model so I was able to finish my quill DRO installation. Man does life suck without it!








Here's what I started out with. Rather than using a long bolt with a nut on the other end for the bracket clamp, I tapped threads on one end & drilled the hole larger on the other end for the bolt to pass through.






Here I am starting on the mount. I miscalculated & ended up not having to make it as big as I originally thought but at least I didn't have to start over.











Here I am making a 1" x 0.1" washer for the M6 bolt. Also showing how I like to catch parts whenever it has a through hole.











The finished mount.
















I get a full 5" of quill travel. Can't wait to put it to good use!











I found a pretty great match for paint for my PM1236 in a rattle can. I was trying to match the paint for the mill & surprisingly it matches my lathe pretty damn good. This is what I used to paint the quill bracket. I'll probably repaint the mill using this in the future slowly parts at a time. The finish on my mill is not that great but oh well.











Thanks for looking!


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## tripletap3

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

That is the exact paint I used to repaint my JET drill press. Be carefull it comes out of the can a warp 10 and goes everywhere.


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



tripletap3 said:


> That is the exact paint I used to repaint my JET drill press. Be carefull it comes out of the can a warp 10 and goes everywhere.



Haha, thanks for the warning! My left arm is white right now but that's because it was windy when I was painting it. But yeah, I don't like the tips that come on most Rustoleums. I guess that's what the 2X coverage claim is. It did work out good when I painted the gray on the stand & chip tray but the large white tips won't allow you to use a gun trigger attachment. I'm too lazy these days to use a spray gun, throwing a can away is so much easier!


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## woodrowm

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

Good afternoon - I am planning on buying the PM-45 mill in the near future. The stand you made for the base looks great by chance could you post the plans for it.

Thanks,
Woodrow


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## GaryK

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



woodrowm said:


> Good afternoon - I am planning on buying the PM-45 mill in the near future. The stand you made for the base looks great by chance could you post the plans for it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Woodrow



Now would be a good time to buy one. Matt has a shipment of them coming in next month.


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



woodrowm said:


> Good afternoon - I am planning on buying the PM-45 mill in the near future. The stand you made for the base looks great by chance could you post the plans for it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Woodrow



Here you go. My stand is about 16" x 28" so I made the riser 1/4" wider on all sides.

EDIT: Forgot to add, I used 4 x 2 x 3/16 wall tubing.


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## GaryK

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

What is the size of that larger GMT mill vise you have there? I'm trying to get an idea of scale. Thanks

Gary


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



GaryK said:


> What is the size of that larger GMT mill vise you have there? I'm trying to get an idea of scale. Thanks
> 
> Gary



The GMT vise is the 5". http://www.glacern.com/photos/blueprint_gsv_550.jpg


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

I'm not a big fan of the gib locks that came on the mill. They feel really cheap cause they are. Couldn't find any suitable off the shelf replacements, everything has handles that are too long & I did not want the risk of breaking the handles if the hit the front of the base when moving the Y axis. Thought about ordering replacements from a Grizzly machine but they don't stock them, they're kind of pricey, & not sure what size they are anyway.

I picked some up that are the perfect size but aren't available in the size stud I need. So I also picked up some dog point set screws & went to work.


My stock levers.











Rethreaded the set screws to fit the new handles.











Aren't they purdy? They're powder coated, adjustable, & they're the perfect length so there's no risk in hitting the base when the table is moved around.





















I'm very happy with them. I also inserted ball bearings into the holes before putting them on to prevent only one side of the dog point from contacting the gibs. If you shine a light down the holes you will see what I mean. Lock up feels so much better now.

If anyone is interested, these are the parts that I used:

Mcmaster:
6848K12 - 6 Each -Metric Die Cast Zinc Adjustable Handle, M6 X 1 Threaded Hole, 9mm Thread Depth
92905A327 - 1 Pack - Alloy Steel Extended Point Set Screw, M8 Size, 50mm Long, 1.25mm Pitch


Shortened the set screws 6mm, threaded M6 x 1 thread 8.5mm long. I used 1/4" bearing quality hardened balls _(be sure to measure first, it will be a lot of work to get them out if they get stuck & I don't want to be the blame if it were to happen to someone, use 7/32" if you want to be safe). _Since I used the balls to contact the gibs, dog point set screws weren't necessary, the idea came to me when I went to install the new handles.


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## darkzero

These are the readings I got for my spindle speeds using a Monarch Pocket-Tach 100, last NIST calibration 4-2000. YMMV


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## GaryK

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



darkzero said:


> I picked some up that are the perfect size but aren't available in the size stud I need. So I also picked up some dog point set screws & went to work.
> 
> I'm very happy with them. I also inserted ball bearings into the holes before putting them on to prevent only one side of the dog point from contacting the gibs. If you shine a light down the holes you will see what I mean. Lock up feels so much better now.
> 
> If anyone is interested, these are the parts that I used:
> 
> Mcmaster:
> 
> 6848K126 EachMetric Die Cast Zinc Adjustable Handle, M6 X 1 Threaded Hole, 9mm Thread Depth92905A3271 PackAlloy Steel Extended Point Set Screw, M8 Size, 50mm Long, 1.25mm Pitch
> 
> Shortened the set screws 6mm, threaded M6 x 1 thread 8.5mm long. I used 1/4" bearing quality hardened balls _(be sure to measure first, it will be a lot of work to get them out if they get stuck & I don't want to be the blame if it were to happen to someone, use 7/32" if you want to be safe). _Since I used the balls to contact the gibs, dog point set screws weren't necessary, the idea came to me when I went to install the new handles.



Those are pretty cool. Matt should have in the next batch of PM45's next week so I should have mind pretty soon. My current mill has those same crappy handles. I will keep this in mind!

Gary


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



GaryK said:


> Those are pretty cool. Matt should have in the next batch of PM45's next week so I should have mind pretty soon. My current mill has those same crappy handles. I will keep this in mind!
> 
> Gary



Awesome, can't wait to see pics of it. I'm very curious!

The handles have been working great & were definitely worth it. One thing I forgot to mention is those set screws from Mcmaster must be hardened. I was not able to fully thread them using the TS die holder. Sucks cause I spent a good part of the morning that day making a new holder for it. The dies I were using weren't all that great (one China & one Craftsman USA) but I never had an issue using them in the past. That is the reason why I had to thread them on the lathe which I should have done to start with, it was so much quicker. Well at least I learned a lesson.


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## darkzero

Not sure if this has been mentioned before.....

I currently have a Easson ES-8A DRO display on my mill. One cool feature that it has is an axial speed display function that can be enabled for each axis like found on most the higher end DROs & CNC machines. My lathe DRO does not have this feature (not an Easson) but not sure if it would be as useful as on the mill.

The X axis power feed allows you to get consistent finishes. With the speed display on the DRO you can get even greater consistent finishes on multiple parts. Even if you do not have a power feed the speed display would also help you turn the handles at a more consist rate as well as giving you an idea of your manual feed rate.

Since it's a digital display, it has a .25 sec delay to enable easier viewing on the eyes. Unfortunately it only displays in mm/min but it's better than nothing.


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## GaryK

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



darkzero said:


> I'm not a big fan of the gib locks that came on the mill. They feel really cheap cause they are. Couldn't find any suitable off the shelf replacements, everything has handles that are too long & I did not want the risk of breaking the handles if the hit the front of the base when moving the Y axis. Thought about ordering replacements from a Grizzly machine but they don't stock them, they're kind of pricey, & not sure what size they are anyway.
> 
> I picked some up that are the perfect size but aren't available in the size stud I need. So I also picked up some dog point set screws & went to work.
> 
> Aren't they purdy? They're powder coated, adjustable, & they're the perfect length so there's no risk in hitting the base when the table is moved around.



I was thinking of going with something different. Just a simple knob. McMaster 6390K23 and a set screw.




At least for the column and y-axis. At less than half the price also.
They are over 1.5" in diameter so I will be able to get plenty of torque on them. I'll probably get them for the x-axis also but I'll have to see the machine first.

I don't think I mentioned it, but I ordered my PM45 with a cast iron base. That should weigh it down some.

Gary


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## gotmax59

I would like to know where you found the leveling pads for your custom stand that i would like to copy. I am about to order a pm45 from Matt and your stand looks like it would work nice to raise it up a little. One more question is what are the two holes in the center for? One is .625 and the other is 1.375 with no specs. on location. Thanks for any info. Can't wait to get mine.


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## GaryK

gotmax59 said:


> I would like to know where you found the leveling pads for your custom stand that i would like to copy. I am about to order a pm45 from Matt and your stand looks like it would work nice to raise it up a little. One more question is what are the two holes in the center for? One is .625 and the other is 1.375 with no specs. on location. Thanks for any info. Can't wait to get mine.



The holes in the center are drilled to match the holes in the base of the mill. Being Chinese they might not be the same from base to base. Will's going to have to tell you where he got the feet.
MCMASTER is a good place to find them though.

I'm getting a mill from this batch also. They've just cleared customs.

Gary


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



gotmax59 said:


> I would like to know where you found the leveling pads for your custom stand that i would like to copy. I am about to order a pm45 from Matt and your stand looks like it would work nice to raise it up a little. One more question is what are the two holes in the center for? One is .625 and the other is 1.375 with no specs. on location. Thanks for any info. Can't wait to get mine.



Gary is correct. I have two of these stands & neither one of them have their mounting holes drilled the same. I used a 5/8" bolts to bolt the base to the stand hence the .625". The 1.375" hole is for the bottom to allow the bolt to fit through & enough room for a socket to hold the bolt when tightening. The two holes can be whatever size you choose. You could also just use a really long bolt to secure it to the whole tube but I didn't like that idea.

With the dimensions I made the tubes & drilling in the center of them, the holes will not line up perfectly with the holes in the stand. My dimensions were based on how much I wanted them to overhang the sides on the stand. I don't have any pics showing how much overhang I have but I can take some if you want. I made it with 1/4" overhang all around. I did not list the location of the holes because it will vary on different stands as Gary mentioned. I just made the location close to the center of the cutout & made new holes.

Here's how it looks from the bottom.








You'll also need to fill in the gap between the plate & the base, otherwise it will bend when tightening the bolts. I made spacers like this (don't mind the dolley, this is for the other stand I'm using for something else):







The mounts I used are by Mason Industries p/n MLS-1000. Realistically the MLS-500s are within spec for this mill but I prefer the MLS-1000 & I don't have deflection issues. They're always on sale at Enco & you'll also get a quantity discount if you buy 4 or more. There's free shipping right good till 2/28 for orders over $49, use code LVHVS. I also use the same ones on my lathe & air compressor. When I originally had 8 of the MLS-1000 I did have delefection issues.









In case anyone is curious about larger diameter mounts, I have a set of MLS-2000s & they're way too big for anything I would ever own. When using rubber mounts you really should buy the size according to the weight requirements to work properly.

MLS-2000 on the left, MLS-1000 on the right:









GaryK said:


> I was thinking of going with something different. Just a simple knob. McMaster 6390K23 and a set screw.
> 
> View attachment 47254
> 
> 
> At least for the column and y-axis. At less than half the price also.
> They are over 1.5" in diameter so I will be able to get plenty of torque on them. I'll probably get them for the x-axis also but I'll have to see the machine first.
> 
> I don't think I mentioned it, but I ordered my PM45 with a cast iron base. That should weigh it down some.
> 
> Gary



Missed this post. Curious how those would work out & I can see the advantage of having knobs. The 4 lobes would work great since they provide better grip. I really like the knobs from Mcmaster. I use them on everything I can. I usually buy phenolic knobs but the ones with the comfort grip are nice too. The knob for my power feed was a two lobe & I really hated it. Replaced it with a 3 lobe comfort grip & it feels so much better now. Just wish they had smaller diameter ones.

You can see a glimpse of it here:


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## darkzero

I found a cell phone pic that I had, you can kind of see the overhang & the spacers.


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## gotmax59

Thanks for the info on the mounts. Iwill wait till i get my mill to do the center holes. Now i just have to pull the trigger on the mill.


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## gotmax59

Will i just ordered the dang thing. Hope it is a good machine?? I got it with PDF- DRO- POWER TABLE.


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## darkzero

gotmax59 said:


> Will i just ordered the dang thing. Hope it is a good machine?? I got it with PDF- DRO- POWER TABLE.



Congrats! I have the same exact setup & I'm very happy with it.


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## gotmax59

Did you tram the head or check it . I am just wondering how close it is??? Once again thanks for the help.


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## Ray C

Hi...

When I got the PM45 a few years ago, I checked tram from sided-to-side and front-to-back and it was within +/- 0.00015".

Last year, I checked it again -and it didn't change much...  There's not a lot you can do to change tram on these style of mills but in all honesty, the vast majority of your problems will be due to clamping and vise problems.  If the tram were twice as far off as it is, that would still be the least of my concerns.  Vises, clamping and warpage et. al is where the battle is fought.


Ray



gotmax59 said:


> Did you tram the head or check it . I am just wondering how close it is??? Once again thnks for the help.


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## darkzero

gotmax59 said:


> Did you tram the head or check it . I am just wondering how close it is??? Once again thanks for the help.



I trammed only the head since I had to remove it. Nod is not adjustable on this mill & is one of the only few things I don't like about the mill. I have not checked the column yet but in order to adjust it you'll need a hoist & shims.


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## sanddan

My first PF45 mill I trammed both side to side and front to back. Shimming the column was tough as the shim thickness didn't correlate with the readings at the table so it was trail and error. I was able to get it within .001" after several try's. I did this before installing the gas springs to the head which made it easier to do. My current mill is trammed side to side but not front to back. I tried to do that after installing the gas springs and I was unable to shift the column enough to get shims installed. It is off a couple of thou so one of these days I will take the springs off and give it another go.


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## GaryK

sanddan said:


> My first PF45 mill I trammed both side to side and front to back. Shimming the column was tough as the shim thickness didn't correlate with the readings at the table so it was trail and error. I was able to get it within .001" after several try's. I did this before installing the gas springs to the head which made it easier to do. My current mill is trammed side to side but not front to back. I tried to do that after installing the gas springs and I was unable to shift the column enough to get shims installed. It is off a couple of thou so one of these days I will take the springs off and give it another go.



What gas springs are you talking about?


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## sanddan

You can see them in this thread. i added them to help support the weight of the head so the motor did not have to work so hard. In the first picture you can see the 2 shims I added between the column and base.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/10056-Motor-for-PM-45-Hand-Crank


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## sapperd06

I have a PM45 for about a year now.  The thing that bothers me most is that the quill fine feed hand wheel calibration is off by .008 in .100.  That is if you turn the fine feed hand wheel indicated .100 it will only move down .092. Does anyone else have this issue?  I talked to Matt and he talked to the factory and they stated that is normal. I am wondering if the gearing may be metric.  I is not a issue of backlash either.  Any thoughts

DWP


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## Ray C

In all these types of lathes, the fine-quill feed seems to be a rough approximation.  I know several other folks with different brands of similar units and they all say the same thing.  A quill mic/DRO is the way to go.  You can rig-up a 6" caliper and your worries are over.

Ray




sapperd06 said:


> I have a PM45 for about a year now.  The thing that bothers me most is that the quill fine feed hand wheel calibration is off by .008 in .100.  That is if you turn the fine feed hand wheel indicated .100 it will only move down .092. Does anyone else have this issue?  I talked to Matt and he talked to the factory and they stated that is normal. I am wondering if the gearing may be metric.  I is not a issue of backlash either.  Any thoughts
> 
> DWP


----------



## darkzero

Got me some goodies for the mill.....


I had originally bought an Indicol but after using it one time I did not like it so I sold it.








I have a couple of Noga mag indicator holders which I love so I decided to get me a Noga for the spindle. I like this so much better!
(I already trammed directly off the table, just used the 123s for the photo & see if my readings were consistent)












Scored me a pretty much brand new Blake Co-Ax!












Edge Technology makes great quality products! I decided to get a couple of work stops from them. The lady who helped me over the phone was very friendly & they delivered fast. 

Their Vise Jaw Stop. Inexpensive & works great, a pretty handy little tool to have. It's designed so the stop pin sits below the jaw's surface.






Their Pro Mill Stop. They have a few different vise stops but I decided to go with the table mount. This sucker is beefy as hell & works great!












Thanks to jmh8743 for sharing this nice protractor. When I saw it I wanted one but found out it was discontinued. I was able to score a very nice one on ebay. Picked up a blow molded case for it to protect it from damage. Not sure how useful it really may be for what I was thinking but I'll find out one day.


----------



## Ray C

Very cool stuff!

Now Will, I gotta ask...  What's the secret to keeping the setup so clean?


----------



## darkzero

Ray C said:


> What's the secret to keeping the setup so clean?



No secret, I keep most of the mess in here:






And here:






Ray, that's actually quite amusing since you are not the first to comment about my "clean" setups. I guess I'll go ahead & share my story for the first time. So is it not common practice for machinists to clean their shops & tools? Well I don't have a shop, just my little space in my garage at home. I spend almost all of my time on the weekends in the garage so I can't stand have crap all over the place anymore. 

My previous jobs were working in a junkyard & as an auto mechanic. Those places were filthy even after weekly clean ups. I'm not afraid to get down & dirty, I'm also the type that hates wearing gloves. I have been dirty 24/7 for well over 10 yrs during that time. it took me 2 yrs to finally clean my auto tools after bringing them home cause they were so filthy I didn't want to touch them. Well them days are over for me.

I purchased my lathe & mill new so they won't look like well used dirty machines for a while. My mill is only a few months old & unfortunately I have not got to use it as much as I want as I have been busy with requests. The builds I have been working on recently haven't required using the mill. The only times I have used the mill so far are for my own stuff during downtime in between builds. I always clean up after the day or the weekend. Chuck, ways, vise, & table get wiped down & oiled. Floor gets sweeped. No time to clean? Why clean since it will get dirty again anyways? :thinking:

Currently 95% of what I make for people is Ti. Many things get anodized too so I like to keep a cleaner environment. I don't do any kind of production work, I currently just make custom gadgets for people. I'm by far no pro machinist, just a home shop machinist. I don't work a whole lot with what I call "dirty metals" like lower grade steel or iron. In fact I hate working with those metals & I'll clean up right after I'm done with the project if I do. You'll probably never see pics of my machines filthy, if you do then the days were too long, I was too tired to clean, & there won't be any picture taking for my customers at that time either. You may see them a bit messy at times but in 2-3 days the chips will get vacuumed up.

Ray, I'm sorry if clean machines offend you or others but that's just the way I am now. I won't post pics of dirty tools to prove that I use them. I rather post pics of what was made. I just finished these Ti pieces today. )


----------



## gotmax59

So darkzero, What did you find when you tramed your mill???


----------



## Ray C

Your "clean machines" don't offend me at all!  I'm just wondering what your secret is -and I think you answered the question.  Clean metal.  I'm working with a lot of basic steel and do a lot of re-work on old parts.  Lot's of rust and scale from the bay waters around here.  I don't normally do much with cast iron but I had a project of my own then, 2 more sheaves came my way that were cast iron.  (Customer was converting a onboard generator from 55 to 60 Hz and the original sheaves had enough meat to simply turn them down). CI creates a mess of epic magnitude.

I sweep constantly.  Vaccuum cutting areas after every significant cut...  Still, everything looks dirty...

... Mid late 70's I worked 4 years at a local auto garage then, a dealership.  Apprentice mechanic (PT in high-school) then NIASE certified.  Both places were FILTHY!!!  I was the only guy with a clean bay.  I hear you loud & clear about detesting filth.  My shop desparetely needs a spring cleaning.  I do a good 2-3 day cleaning in spring and late fall.  -Still though, it's never as clean/organized as I would like.


----------



## tc17

Great info! My PM45 is supposed to arrive today. 

Darkzero, all the quality little upgrades your doing on the pm45 and 1236 are really nice. If you have any extra's please let me know. I would be interested in all your custom made upgrades. 

Should i have bought the variable speed version if i plan to do a lot of tapping? i figured i would be doing a vfd or 3 phase later, so i figured it was better to get the regular motor for now.


----------



## outsider347

darkzero
noticed that you have a Glacern vise on your mill table.
I'm shopping for a vise and I 'm wondering what you think of the vise offered by PM below

http://www.machinetoolonline.com/VisesHighPrecision.html

thanks for your response


----------



## darkzero

tc1804 said:
			
		

> Great info! My PM45 is supposed to arrive today.
> 
> Darkzero, all the quality little upgrades your doing on the pm45 and 1236 are really nice. If you have any extra's please let me know. I would be interested in all your custom made upgrades.
> 
> Should i have bought the variable speed version if i plan to do a lot of tapping? i figured i would be doing a vfd or 3 phase later, so i figured it was better to get the regular motor for now.



Congrats! Don't think I have any extras except for misc hardware, I'll keep you in mind if I do happen to find something. If you go vfd no real need for variable speed option as it's essentially the same. You may have better options if converting yourself.



outsider347 said:


> darkzero
> noticed that you have a Glacern vise on your mill table.
> I'm shopping for a vise and I 'm wondering what you think of the vise offered by PM below
> 
> http://www.machinetoolonline.com/VisesHighPrecision.html
> 
> thanks for your response



Don't know much about the Homge but GaryK should be getting one soon so be on the lookout for his comments about it. I am pretty happy with the Glacern though & would buy it again.


----------



## darkzero

gotmax72 said:
			
		

> So darkzero, What did you find when you tramed your mill???



Nothing to be too concerned about that I can remember. Not sure if wrote down my readings anywhere but I'll be checking again soon with the Noga holder. I basically just trammed the head since I removed when hoisting. Nod was a bit off I think but there's no adjustment for it. I need to check again soon so I know if I need to plan on shimming to column.




Ray C said:


> Your "clean machines" don't offend me at all!  I'm just wondering what your secret is -and I think you answered the question.  Clean metal.  I'm working with a lot of basic steel and do a lot of re-work on old parts.  Lot's of rust and scale from the bay waters around here.  I don't normally do much with cast iron but I had a project of my own then, 2 more sheaves came my way that were cast iron.  (Customer was converting a onboard generator from 55 to 60 Hz and the original sheaves had enough meat to simply turn them down). CI creates a mess of epic magnitude.
> 
> I sweep constantly.  Vaccuum cutting areas after every significant cut...  Still, everything looks dirty...
> 
> ... Mid late 70's I worked 4 years at a local auto garage then, a dealership.  Apprentice mechanic (PT in high-school) then NIASE certified.  Both places were FILTHY!!!  I was the only guy with a clean bay.  I hear you loud & clear about detesting filth.  My shop desparetely needs a spring cleaning.  I do a good 2-3 day cleaning in spring and late fall.  -Still though, it's never as clean/organized as I would like.



I hear ya, I haven't machined a whole lot of cast iron at home. At the shop I turned brake rotors & drums often. But I don't remember the chips being that fine. At home the little CI that I have turned turns into dust & gets really messy! I'm not familiar with different grades or whatever for CI if any. The stuff I machined at home were mostly just chuck adapters & faceplates.


----------



## darkzero

The power "LED" indicator on my X axis power feed sucks. It's dim & isn't very noticeable from even a short distance so I keep forgetting to power it off. My power feed is 110v so for now it will powered seperate from the mill's power.


Here it is new.







(The following pics are from my cell phone)


A while back I tried to pull on the "LED" to see if I could pull it out without disassembling the unit. Well that wasn't a good idea & I broke the dome off.






Here's a close up of it on.






So I decided I was going to change it for a brighter LED with a wider viewing angle. The case was very easy to open up. To my surprise what I assumed was a LED is not a LED. It's a neon bulb with a long lens. No wonder it was so dim & makes sense for it's simplicity. 


Can't power a LED directly off AC so I decided to build a very simple circuit. There's a number of ways to power an LED from AC. Flicker shouldn't be too bad & efficiency is not a concern so again I wanted to keep it simple, I followed this one. I won't explain what each component does since the link covers most of it.

















I replaced the bulb with a header & the resistor closest to it with a jumper since I won't need it. BTW, that resistor is 33Kohm & drops voltage to 62V for the neon bulb.











It works!






Potted the bottom of the board to insulate the connections & mounted it inside the case along with a low profile diffuser lens for the LED.











Now the power indicator is much more noticeable & from a distance. I also replaced the original knob with a ball knob which I like much better.


----------



## Rbeckett

Will.
Glad this thread came back up, I missed it the first time around and those machines are awesome.  Is the mill on casters ot solid feet?  The ability to tuck it away when not in use is a great space saver in the shop.  I put ,y CNC Plasma table monitor and controller on a rail that hangs from the ceiling.  I can park the controller over the table when not in use and make quite a bit of clear floor space for other projects/  Your shop and your machines are both good lookin so I am a bit jealous.

Non


----------



## woodrowm

darkzero said:


> Nothing to be too concerned about that I can remember. Not sure if wrote down my readings anywhere but I'll be checking again soon with the Noga holder. I basically just trammed the head since I removed when hoisting. Nod was a bit off I think but there's no adjustment for it. I need to check again soon so I know if I need to plan on shimming to column.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hear ya, I haven't machined a whole lot of cast iron at home. At the shop I turned brake rotors & drums often. But I don't remember the chips being that fine. At home the little CI that I have turned turns into dust & gets really messy! I'm not familiar with different grades or whatever for CI if any. The stuff I machined at home were mostly just chuck adapters & faceplates.


 
Good morning - Hey I received my PM-45 mill the other day and I was thinking about ways to hoist it up onto the stand (I have a 2 ton engine hoist).
You mention here that you took your head off before hosting. Well I guess my question is how did you go about hoisting your mill. I had no problem hoisting up my PM 1236 lathe but the mill looks a bit tricky.

Thanks,
Woodrow


----------



## darkzero

Rbeckett said:


> Will.
> Glad this thread came back up, I missed it the first time around and those machines are awesome. Is the mill on casters ot solid feet? The ability to tuck it away when not in use is a great space saver in the shop. I put ,y CNC Plasma table monitor and controller on a rail that hangs from the ceiling. I can park the controller over the table when not in use and make quite a bit of clear floor space for other projects/ Your shop and your machines are both good lookin so I am a bit jealous.
> 
> Non



Thanks Robert! I have it on solid feet. For me stationary works fine, plus that area of the garage is not flat so the feet allows it to be leveled.




woodrowm said:


> Good morning - Hey I received my PM-45 mill the other day and I was thinking about ways to hoist it up onto the stand (I have a 2 ton engine hoist).
> You mention here that you took your head off before hosting. Well I guess my question is how did you go about hoisting your mill. I had no problem hoisting up my PM 1236 lathe but the mill looks a bit tricky.
> 
> Thanks,
> Woodrow



My buddy's engine hoist would not clear the riser I made when the mill was hoisted up, the legs were not wide enough. Many people recommend not to hoist from the head & I would have to agree with their reasoning for that but Matt stated it was perfectly fine & I trust he knows his machines. So I did lift from the head without issues. 

Since I had to remove the head (which means disconnecting all the electronics), I built a stand for the bottom of the head, lowered it onto the table, then unbolted it with support from the hoist. After removing it we hoisted the base/column assy from under the base. It was still tricky since we had to use rollers to get mill into place on the pan. After that was in place, we set the head back on the table, then used the X, Y, & Z feeds to line the head back up to bolt it back on. Like my lathe, I sealed the pan to the base around the mounting holes with RTV silicone.

Probably wouldn't have had to do all that if we had a larger/wider engine hoist. It was the same hoist we used for my lathe & the lathe was very easy.


----------



## sanddan

I modified the base of my engine hoist to clear the stand I made. I hoisted it by the head using straps.


----------



## gotmax59

So Sanddan, I see your machine in the background is it a PM45M??? It looks very blue to me. Are the new ones blue? My machine mite be hear tomarrow with any luck.


----------



## sanddan

No, I got it from ENCO. I looked at the PM45 at the time but they were back ordered with no firm delivery and Enco had them in stock so no waiting. I got a 12x36 lathe at the same time, I had a bonus check burning a hole in my pocket


----------



## gotmax59

I got a grizzly G4002 lathe About two years ago. Its been a real good little lathe for the price. I also got a HF mini mill that I put a belt drive in and it sucked. IT was ok for plastic and lite alu. but thats about it. I'm looking forward to getting a bigger mill.


----------



## darkzero

Once again Matt hooked me up & has made me very happy again! I can't emphasize how much I love to work with him & how great he is. He will ALWAYS get my business!

Been waiting very patiently for Matt to get the ES-12s in. Got a smoking deal on it!

As always, I have to say, Matt is the best!


































And since it's Easson I'm pretty sure it would have speed readout too & without reading the manual yet I verified that it did.






Time to go read the manual......


----------



## Ray C

Woah... sexy!

How's the translation on the user manual?


Ray


----------



## darkzero

Ray C said:


> Woah... sexy!
> 
> How's the translation on the user manual?
> 
> 
> Ray



I'm sure it's the same level of Chinglish as the ES-8A manual but I'll take a look after dinner.

EDIT: I take that back, the manual is pretty good as is the ES-8A manual. Guess I was thinking about another DRO manual.


----------



## darkzero

I forgot to mention. I don't have a wall mount or machine mount R8 rack but a great alternative to those who don't wish to wall mount, Sisan Co makes great racks, very solid. Buy directly from them or from ebay. I purchased directly through their site, free shipping, & since they're local to me, it arrived the next day.

I currently have their R8 rack but planning on getting a ER-40 rack too.


----------



## Ray C

That face cutter on the left...  I've got one the same style.  LOVE it.


----------



## gotmax59

Will, Matt must like you alot. He told me it would cost $200.00 to change my ES-8 to the ES-12 if it was still new in the packing. Still waiting for my machine to show up, maybe monday I hope. I haven't read anything on the ES-12, Are they that much better?


----------



## darkzero

gotmax59 said:


> Will, Matt must like you alot. He told me it would cost $200.00 to change my ES-8 to the ES-12 if it was still new in the packing. Still waiting for my machine to show up, maybe monday I hope. I haven't read anything on the ES-12, Are they that much better?



Oops, sorry, I posted my reply in your post by accident! :banghead:

That's a good price. I can't really say right now that they are that much better but I'm loving it so far. We'll see later if my idea works.


----------



## darkzero

Ray C said:


> That face cutter on the left... I've got one the same style. LOVE it.



Same here, I love that GMT FM. The Korloy inserts from GMT are expensive. I got them for a 3rd of the cost here.

I've been very lucky on scoring tooling for the mill. A fellow member from another forum converted his PM45M to CNC. He converted his spindle to BT30 & had no need for his R8 tooling anymore. Lucky for me he is local to me & I was able to score the GMT FM, Criterion boring head, & a Bison ER-40 collet chuck with the Lyndex BB nut (so now I have two) for a great deal. It's quiet a sight to see the CNC conversion in action along with how quite his 8000rpm belt conversion is.

From the same person I got an extra stand from the PM45 for free as it was headed to the scrap yard. Painted it, added a cheap dolley, & a wood top to it...now it's a rolling work cart as an accessory for my mill.


----------



## Ray C

Will,

How are you getting along with the ER40 setup?  Been thinking about it for a while.  I try like heck to plan my ops and pretty much succeed but still, swapping R8 gets old.  Gimme a little lesson... What's the range of a given collet compared to say 5C which runs in 1/64" increments?

EDIT:  Thanks for the link on the inserts.


Ray


----------



## darkzero

I can't say a whole lot about them yet as I still only have a handful of sizes as I'm still building my set. And I don't own any 5C stuff myself, only used 5C & 2J the couple of years I took machining courses at the local CC with my lil brother (I was his ride at the time so I figured I might as well take the class with him, I decided to complete the course where he only needed the one class). 

I decided not to buy a full set of collets & just buy the sizes I will need as I go along. Not saving much on a 13pc set which will include a few sizes I probably won't use anyway. Lots of people seem to love the ER-40s so I followed. I'm using Techniks collets and again nothing but good comments about them even though they are Taiwan made. The ER collets feel so so much better than R8 collets though that's for sure.

I went with the ER-40 & ball bearing nuts for the 1" capacity. But they say ER-40 can't grip the smaller shanks that well but I have no experience with that. I have an ER-16 chuck that I will probably use up to 5/16 or 3/8 (maybe pushing it's limits) and anything larger in the ER-40. I got that ER-16 chuck from GMT cause I need something to get me into the discount range during the Halloween special. I hear the GMT collet chucks are made by RegoFix, the quality is very nice. GMT really does make nice stuff. So far everything I have from them is pretty nice.

Here's the full specs for the Teckniks ER family collets.
http://www.techniksusa.com/metal/cnaerpci.htm

But I love em so far & I'm with you, I hate swapping out R8 so any little advantage I can get to avoid that I will. Although I do have that full set of R8 collets that Matt hooked me up with, I only use 3 of them which is mainly for edge finders & my indicator holder.


----------



## darkzero

I got a couple of packages.....


Opened the boxes & found mini crates inside them, didn't expect that.







A 6.5" super spacer & tailstock. I was originally going to get a 6" super indexer to save storage room but because of the weight & size I decided to just go with a super spacer & get a rotary table later. Thought about an 8" super spacer but that's more weight than I want to deal with at home & I don't need something that big.

Looks like they were meant to be used with the super spacer on the right & tailstock on the left. But I'm used to using spacers & indexers on the left so that's how I will with these. I was thinking the tailstock could be reversed but it can't without modification. I may try that later or use it as is.






The mounting holes are too wide for my table so I figured I would just make a simple mounting plate for it. Picked up some remnant tooling plate at the local supplier. They have Mic-6 but it's more expensive & I figured this would be good enough for me. Guess I'll find out soon. 






I quickly found out the limits of my Y axis & I didn't have enough travel to machine the full length of the plate even with the column chip cover raised to clear the vise. Maybe if I removed the table chip cover also & X axis scale but I didn't want to do all that.






With what I had laying around, this is what I did. Worked better than I was thinking, I was hesitant to do so. Still need to mill the T-nuts for the clamping kit I have so I just went this route.






Two slots & two threaded holes later, here's what I ended up with. Seems like it will work fine.




























Now I just need to take the chuck off, disassemble everything I clean up whatever is needed. Didn't think this 6.5" super spacer would be this big & heavy. I'm not sure I will even need this size of a spacer often. Too bad they don't make a 5" (or do they?).


----------



## darkzero

One last entry here for a while since I'm tooled up pretty comfortably now for what I need.


Scored me a couple of very nice condition boring heads. A Criterion 2" for $100 & a Yuasa 3" (exact copy of a Criterion) for $125. I'll be swapping over the R8 arbor from my older square Criterion to the DBL-202 & off to ebay for the square Criterion. The Yuasa came with a CAT-40 arbor & a nice USA made R8 arbor costs 75% of what I paid for the head so an import arbor will do just fine on it.


----------



## doorknob

Interesting discussion here...

My PM-45M has been sitting in my garage over the winter, waiting for a warm day to unpack it. 

The warm day finally came yesterday - not quite finished unpacking it - opened the crate and used my sawzall to carve away enough of the shipping pallet to permit me to get the legs of my engine hoist on either side of it.

I'm planning to use a lifting sling under the head (where it attaches to the column), with a Harbor Freight load leveler to hold the ends of the sling (in a manner similar to what is shown in http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bench...on_matthews_pm-45m_3_axis_dro.html#post894190 ). First I have to figure out where I put my swivel shackle and split chain link (I think that's what it's called) that I use with the sling.

No pix yet, but maybe soon.


----------



## tripletap3

doorknob said:


> Interesting discussion here...
> 
> My PM-45M has been sitting in my garage over the winter, waiting for a warm day to unpack it.



There is no way I would have that kind of patience. anic:


----------



## woodrowm

doorknob said:


> Interesting discussion here...
> 
> My PM-45M has been sitting in my garage over the winter, waiting for a warm day to unpack it.
> 
> The warm day finally came yesterday - not quite finished unpacking it - opened the crate and used my sawzall to carve away enough of the shipping pallet to permit me to get the legs of my engine hoist on either side of it.
> 
> I'm planning to use a lifting sling under the head (where it attaches to the column), with a Harbor Freight load leveler to hold the ends of the sling (in a manner similar to what is shown in http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bench...on_matthews_pm-45m_3_axis_dro.html#post894190 ). First I have to figure out where I put my swivel shackle and split chain link (I think that's what it's called) that I use with the sling.
> 
> No pix yet, but maybe soon.



Good morning - Hey I have the same mill and got it mounted on it's stand just last week. I thought about using a load leveler but decided against it. I didn't think that I would get the lift height that I needed to get it on the stand (I had made a frame like "darkzero" has on his so that adds about another 6" in height) anyway I cut 2 pieces of 2X4 about 7" long and nailed them together and put them under the back side of the head (to give me more height) put the strap under the 2X4's and up she went straight as an arrow and with the help of my lovely wife set it right down on the stand right in place. Then the fun part came I had to pull it up a 4" step (using a winch and ramps) make a sharp turn and set it into place. I had only an 1/8" clearance between the top of the lift and the ceiling. I hope this helps.

Thanks,
Woodrow


----------



## doorknob

tripletap3 said:


> There is no way I would have that kind of patience. anic:



Yeah... You would probably go bonkers if I told you that I haven't yet uncrated my Grizzly G4003G 12x36 lathe either (so I won't mention it).

- - - Updated - - -



woodrowm said:


> Good morning - Hey I have the same mill and got it mounted on it's stand just last week. I thought about using a load leveler but decided against it. I didn't think that I would get the lift height that I needed to get it on the stand (I had made a frame like "darkzero" has on his so that adds about another 6" in height) anyway I cut 2 pieces of 2X4 about 7" long and nailed them together and put them under the back side of the head (to give me more height) put the strap under the 2X4's and up she went straight as an arrow and with the help of my lovely wife set it right down on the stand right in place. Then the fun part came I had to pull it up a 4" step (using a winch and ramps) make a sharp turn and set it into place. I had only an 1/8" clearance between the top of the lift and the ceiling. I hope this helps.
> 
> Thanks,
> Woodrow




I have measured (and remeasured) the available height and I think that I have sufficient clearance to get it onto the stand without hitting the ceiling with my shop crane.

That is, I "think" I have enough clearance - guess that I'll find out soon enough.

I had been considering installing some load-leveling casters on the bottom of the stand first, but between my concern over possibly not having sufficient ceiling clearance and my concern over not having good enough welding skills (to weld on some backing plates for the casters to attach to), I decided to skip the casters for now. I can always revisit that decision in the future, based on my experience lifting the mill onto the stand.


----------



## doorknob

darkzero, I do not mean to hijack your thread, if it's inappropriate for me to post these photos here, let me know and I'll move them.

I hoisted my PM-45M onto the stand yesterday - I ended up not using the load leveler, because I didn't have sufficient vertical clearance to use it with my shop crane in my garage. So instead, I used a swivel fitting to permit me to easily orient the base of the mill with the stand (http://www.harborfreight.com/3-8-eighth-inch-jaw-eye-swivel-97136.html), some 3/8" split chain links, a sling (http://www.harborfreight.com/2-inch-x-6-ft-6400-lb-capacity-web-sling-95626.html) and a ratcheting tie-down strap to ensure that the sling could not accidentally slip (http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-1-inch-x-15-ft-ratcheting-tie-down-set-90984.html) and a second tie-down to strap the tray to the base of the mill (to make it easier to get the bolts into place on the stand without worrying about the tray moving).

I started out by cutting away most of the wooden shipping pallet with my sawzall in order to fit the legs of my shop crane on either side of the mill:







I used a pallet jack to support the pallet while doing the cutting, then placed some 4x4's underneath what remained of the pallet and lowered it on top of them:







I put the sling underneath the head, and attached the sling to the shop crane with the split links and the swivel:.







I then unscrewed the L-shaped bolts that held the base of the mill to the pallet, and began hoisting the mill:







The mill was balanced nicely when lifted by the sling, but I added a strap around the column and the motor just in case:







Strapping the tray to the base of the mill allowed me to put the bolts through the holes in the base for alignment with the top of the stand:







And, voila, the mill is now bolted to the stand:







BTW, the green monster visible in some of the photos is a Burgmaster 1D turret drill, which is a project for another day.

And, barely visible behind the mill in some of the photos is the shipping crate for my Grizzly G4003G lathe, which is also another project for later.

Next steps: Hook up the wiring, install the handwheels, connect the coolant pump and hoses, and start testing.


----------



## darkzero

No worries, I don't mind at all.

Awesome, looks like you should be making chips real soon! 

One suggestion though, before you hook up the coolant pump lines I recommend deburring the holes on the rear door, if needed. The holes on both of my stands had very sharp edges. Although I won't be using the coolant pump I took the time to deburr those holes before painting them.


----------



## doorknob

Thanks for the tip on the holes in the stand. It's info from you and others who have worked with the PM-45M before that has given me the confidence to jump into the deep end (yes, I have some prior experience using a Bridgeport and other machine tools, but it's a different story when you're setting things up in your own shop).

One question that I should have thought of before hoisting the mill - the swivel fitting that I used has a rated capacity of 1540 lbs. while the mill probably weighs about 950 lbs. Did I allow for a sufficient safety factor with the swivel? Should I have rigged a secondary sling to the end of the crane "just in case"?

IIRC the 3/8" split links also have a rated working capacity of over 1500 lbs. The sling is rated for 6400 lbs, and the shop crane was set to the 1 ton position, so those working capacities have much more breathing room.


----------



## doorknob

darkzero said:


> With what I had laying around, this is what I did. Worked better than I was thinking, I was hesitant to do so. Still need to mill the T-nuts for the clamping kit I have so I just went this route.



Do you remember the details of the clamping kit T-nuts that you have?

My caliper claims that the slots are just under 9/16" wide, so I suspect that I will need to get a kit with 1/2" T-nuts. Did you get the clamping kit from Quality Machine Tools or from somewhere else?

They offer a clamping kit at Harbor Freight that supposedly has 1/2" clamps, but whether that 1/2" dimension applies to the T-nut width is unclear (http://www.harborfreight.com/58-pie...ch-16-nc-studs-1-2-half-inch-clamps-5952.html).

Edit: The manual says that the slots are 14mm in width. So, that's about 50 thou greater than 0.5" (but since the clamping kits come from China, maybe they are actually metric and the 1/2" size is simply somebody's idea of a proper units conversion.


----------



## Ray C

Rigging and lifting is both a science and art. I always consider at least three things when it comes to selecting the tools for the job. 1) Does it meet rated spec? 2) Is there any chance there will be an impulsive "bounce" during the lift? 3) It it in good, up-to-date condition and do you trust it?

#1: If I need to lift shop equipment with a strap, I use a strap that's at least 75 to 100% over-rated. Same goes for shop cranes etc.
#2: If it's smooth easy lift from the floor to a table I'm more comfortable with just 75% over-rated equipment. If there's any chance the item will swing or bounce you need to use the heaviest stuff (within reason) you can.
#3: I had a couple of my favorite lifting straps get soaked in kerosene. Not knowing if it could effect the material or the stitiching, I cut e'm in half and threw them away. And related to this, when I purchase a new strap (or other piece of crane equipment) I don't use it at rated capacity on the first lift. I gradually use it on progressively heavier items until I develop a trust with it.


And for the record, overhead lifting is off limits for me. And suffice it to say, when you've got something heavy in the air, you keep all parts of your body out of the drop zone. If you need to say, put your hands underneath it to align bolts, put strong wooden blocks at least as thick as your hand underneath.

Ray


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## doorknob

Ray C said:


> #1: If I need to lift shop equipment with a strap, I use a strap that's at least 75 to 100% over-rated. Same goes for shop cranes etc.



Thanks...

By that standard, I was a little bit on the shy side with the 1500 or so ratings of the split links and the swivel fitting. My big strap (and my shop crane) was more than adequate. So it might have been a good idea for me to have added a strap that didn't depend on the swivel or split links. Not sure how I would have rigged that, though - maybe by drilling a hole near the end of the shop crane arm and putting a suitably-rated eye bolt through it to make an anchor point for a second strap.


----------



## darkzero

doorknob said:


> Do you remember the details of the clamping kit T-nuts that you have?
> 
> My caliper claims that the slots are just under 9/16" wide, so I suspect that I will need to get a kit with 1/2" T-nuts. Did you get the clamping kit from Quality Machine Tools or from somewhere else?
> 
> They offer a clamping kit at Harbor Freight that supposedly has 1/2" clamps, but whether that 1/2" dimension applies to the T-nut width is unclear (http://www.harborfreight.com/58-pie...ch-16-nc-studs-1-2-half-inch-clamps-5952.html).
> 
> Edit: The manual says that the slots are 14mm in width. So, that's about 50 thou greater than 0.5" (but since the clamping kits come from China, maybe they are actually metric and the 1/2" size is simply somebody's idea of a proper units conversion.



Yes, the slots are 14mm. I have the 5/8" set which came from Matt. He gave it to me for free but he said they sent me the wrong set by accident. The 1/2 set is what you would need if you don't want to do any machining to the T-nuts. TE-CO does sell a 14mm kit but they are expensive. If I had to buy myself I still would have gone with the 5/8" set. I prefer the larger 1/2" studs over the 3/8" studs that the 1/2" kit uses but the 3/8" studs would do just fine too.

Not hard to machine the T-nuts, there are 6 of them in my kit so I just milled 3 at a time in the vise. I have 14mm T-nuts that I use for my vise & super spacer so I just copied the dimensions from them. 0.540" for the top width, .876" for the bottom width, & .296" for the depth from the top of the nut.


----------



## doorknob

I bought some 1/2" T-nuts from the local Grainger store today, picked up some 3/8-16 socket-head cap screws and some washers from Ace Hardware, and mounted my 6" Shars vise on the table (I will have to set up a dial indicator to get it square, but I'm just playing with it right now). As others have noted before, a 6" vise is a bit on the large side for this mill table, and maybe a 5" one would have been a better choice, but it will have to do for now.

I had wanted to pick up a 1/2" clamp kit from a nearby Harbor Freight store, but apparently they don't stock the clamping kit in the store, so I ordered it from their web site instead.

A few more startup questions, if you don't mind.

First, unlike my mini-mill, I did not see a whole lot of protective "glop" slathered everywhere - rather, it is mainly visible on the X-axis scale at the front of the machine. Should I be cleaning it out of the T-slots of the table as well? Is there anywhere else that I have missed that needs to have it cleaned off?

Also, although I see the warning printed on the head about changing the spindle speed only when the machine is stopped, I don't seem to be able to get the right-hand gear shift (2, 3, 1) completely in gear when it's stopped, even with partially rotating the spindle by hand as I am moving the lever. Is that normal (and do you need to start the motor running to get the gears completely meshed)?

It looks like the black screw-in handle at the front, lower right of the head is a quill lock. I was hoping that there might be a spindle lock to make it easier to handle the drawbar, but I can't seem to find one - am I missing it somehow, or is there no spindle lock? Also, I haven't yet found any Y-axis locking handles, but I haven't done an exhaustive search yet.


----------



## darkzero

doorknob said:


> First, unlike my mini-mill, I did not see a whole lot of protective "glop" slathered everywhere - rather, it is mainly visible on the X-axis scale at the front of the machine. Should I be cleaning it out of the T-slots of the table as well? Is there anywhere else that I have missed that needs to have it cleaned off?
> 
> Also, although I see the warning printed on the head about changing the spindle speed only when the machine is stopped, I don't seem to be able to get the right-hand gear shift (2, 3, 1) completely in gear when it's stopped, even with partially rotating the spindle by hand as I am moving the lever. Is that normal (and do you need to start the motor running to get the gears completely meshed)?
> 
> It looks like the black screw-in handle at the front, lower right of the head is a quill lock. I was hoping that there might be a spindle lock to make it easier to handle the drawbar, but I can't seem to find one - am I missing it somehow, or is there no spindle lock? Also, I haven't yet found any Y-axis locking handles, but I haven't done an exhaustive search yet.



My mill was not heavily covered in cosmoline (or whatever they use) like my lathes. My table & Z column dovetails/ways were covered with a brown waxy type paper which is commonly for machines tools to come wrapped in. I'm glad & the painted surfaces don't really require to be covered in cosmoline so clean up was easier. My lathes were heavily covered in cosmoline so clean up was much more time consuming. But I don't mind if it had been covered heavily as I wouldn't want any rust. I have seen cases where new machines arrived with rust. The only area that I discovered that has a considerable amount of more cosmoline is the machined top surface of the base under the table. I did not bother to clean off all the cosmoline found under the chip guard for the Y axis, it would rarely be seen so it's better left there IMO for protection but that's the user's preference.

With most any gearhead machines, switching gears is not always perfectly smooth. If you don't feel a proper gear change when moving the lever, as you are doing, turn the spindle by hand a bit until you feel that it meshes properly. It should be very smooth when it meshes properly, at least my mill is. NEVER EVER attempt to make a gear change with the spindle under power on a gearhead machine. The only exception is the like the gearbox on my lathe. The geabox changes can be changed with slightly faster rotation (as when the spindle is coming to a near stop) but never under full spindle speed. 

If you feel it's not as smooth as it should be, it may get better after a break in & oil change. Not sure if yours was filled by Matt or the factory. I think Gary mentioned that his batch was overfilled so be sure to check the oil level before any real use. Mine was filled at the factory with who knows what oil (and coming from Matt as well), it was very dark compared to Mobil DTE that I normally use. Run each speed for 10 mins or so in forward & reverse. Then change the oil. Some will recommend changing the oil after many more hours of use but I prefer to put in an oil that I know what it is "sooner than later" & to flush out any debris or shaving left over from the manufacturing process if any. Also be sure to check for head temperature during break it. It should never get warmer than warm to the hand. In the rare case if you feel that it gets pretty hot then something may definitely be wrong & I would contact Matt for advice before running any further. Mine ran much quieter & smooth after break in & oil change. YMMV.

If you have the power downfeed model, your quill lock should be on the right side of the head towards the front. If you have the non-PDF model, the quill lock handle should be on the face/front of the head. Some RF-45 clones have the quill lock on the left side. You are correct, there is no easy accessible spindle lock. I rarely ever need a spindle lock though changing the R8s. It's not necessary to tighten the heck out of the drawbar, a firm tug on the wrench should be more than efficient. As long as the R8 taper seats well with your arbor/collet, the taper should have a good enough seat. Loosening the drawbar is the same way for me, an abrupt tug is all that is needed to loosen the draw bar. Putting the head in a lower gear helps loosening & tightening.

But in the case where you do need something to hold the spindle to loosen the draw bar, there are a few options that I will mention (but there's more). You can make a simple spline wrench for the top of the spindle. I just bought one on ebay here. Not the greatest made but it's cheap & does the job well. Just remember to treat it like your chuck key, never take your hand off of it until you set down on the table or whatever.

Another option, if you have the same style drawbar that came with my mill, it's designed so you don't need a spindle lock. Unlike conventional drawbars, mine has two nuts, one dynamic/adjustable & one that is fixed with the drawbar. The dynamic nut is used to tighten the drawbar. While the drawbar is tightened with an R8 arbor in the spindle, the fixed nut on top allows to to use a wrench to hold the drawbar/spindle while you use a second wrench on the dynamic nut to loosed the arbor. You can see what I mean in post #22 of this thread where I made a replacement drawbar in the same style. Pic 6 of that post shows a glimpse of the spline/spindle wrench I mentioned.

Another option is to get a product called Spindle-Lock. It's looks to be a nice product, comes in different colors, & makes locking the spindle easy. But IMHO it's a bit overpriced, well at least more than what I'm willing to pay & I'm not afraid to spend money on tools. Says it bolts right on with no modifications needed. One could easy make it into a project & make their own. If you do or get this, please post pics!

Another more complex solution is to make a powerdraw but i won't get into that.

Axis locks are normally placed on the gibs. The Y-axis locks are on the right side, if you look under the table you will see the two leaf screws, those are for locking the Y-axis. You can see mine in post #35.

Ok, that ended up being much longer than I anticipated, I'm tired, beer time.


----------



## doorknob

Very informative post (as usual), thanks...

I do not have the power downfeed model.

I will order one of those spline wrenches - looks like it will do the trick.


----------



## GaryK

doorknob said:


> Very informative post (as usual), thanks...
> 
> I do not have the power downfeed model.
> 
> I will order one of those spline wrenches - looks like it will do the trick.



I have one of those wrenches from ebay, but I never use it anymore. It's a lot faster to just flip the switch to put in low gear and give it a quick tightening.

Gary


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## skeeter355

Just got a PM45M-PDF and this thread has lots of great info! Especially good inputs from DarkZero and Gary K.  My question is about lubing this thing. The owners manual is less than desired in identifying the parts that need lube for an extreme Nooby like me. Specifically the Internal Spline Assembly, Quill Return Spring and Quill Pinion mentioned in the Lubrication section. I need to identify these parts, where to lube them and what to lube them with. I currently have Quickslide 68 that I used on the ways and the quill. There is a brass colored piece with a cap on the right side of the PDF, is that a lube point?  Gary you mention you tighten the drawbar in the low gear? Just against the tension of the gearing? Are the nuts  on the drawbar 17-18 mm?  Thanks for any help!  Skeeter


----------



## doorknob

Made my first chips today on the PM-45M.

:happybirthday2:

Thanks again for all the help, guys...


----------



## qualitymachinetools

Hey Skeeter,
 For the head gearbox lube, I have had a lot of guys using something like SAE75W90 gear oil, and they say it works well and runs quiet. The factory says #30 Machine Oil, which I have seen, and I think it is crude oil straight out of the ground. I use the 75W 90 in my own machine.

 So really, that gear oil, or Mobil DTE, or any Hydraulic curculating / antiwear oil will be much better than what the factory would say to use.

   For the ways or screws, any way oil, I have Tru Edge right now, or Mobil Vactra #2, or anything like that.

 For the spindle splines, I would not worry too much about them, but something like white lithium grease would be good. And maybe a little way oil on the quill too, where it slides. 
 For that oil cap on top of the power down feed, I actually grease the gears inside of there, and do not oil them. But thats up to you, a little oil there won't hurt either. 

 And for that drawbar, I just screw it in by hand, and use the 2 nuts to tighten it, just hold the top one still and screw the nut down to pull the drawbar up. I do what Gary does sometimes too, but can't recommend doing that one, only can say that I do it too.


----------



## doorknob

darkzero said:


> Their Pro Mill Stop. They have a few different vise stops but I decided to go with the table mount. This sucker is beefy as hell & works great!




The Pro Mill Stop is available with two different table slot widths - 5/8" and 9/16".

It looks like there is an integral boss at the base of the unit that fits into the table slot. Since the table slot width is 14 mm, did you get the 9/16" model and mill or shave down the edges to fit? 9/16" is 0.5625" while 14 mm is about 0.5512" so the difference is about 11 thousandths. Did it "just fit" as-is, or did you have to tweak it?


----------



## darkzero

doorknob said:


> The Pro Mill Stop is available with two different table slot widths - 5/8" and 9/16".
> 
> It looks like there is an integral boss at the base of the unit that fits into the table slot. Since the table slot width is 14 mm, did you get the 9/16" model and mill or shave down the edges to fit? 9/16" is 0.5625" while 14 mm is about 0.5512" so the difference is about 11 thousandths. Did it "just fit" as-is, or did you have to tweak it?




Yes, I got the 9/16" model & milled it down.


----------



## darkzero

My 6" tail stock is almost maxed out in height so I decided to get a 8" tail stock as I wouldn't be able to use the 6" TS with the rotary table I will get later. I didn't want to make a riser for it. The 8" only costs $7 more than the 6" & both are well under $100 ea. I like the 8" better as it's facing "forward" but it's a bit bigger than the 6" so time will tell if I decide to sell the 6" or just keep it since it didn't cost much. 

The 8" is nice cause it has a removable center but what is not mentioned anywhere I can find, there's no way of removing the center once it's seated good in the taper. So before I used it I took care of that by milling a slot for a drift key.


----------



## darkzero

darkzero said:


> I had originally bought an Indicol but after using it one time I did not like it so I sold it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a couple of Noga mag indicator holders which I love so I decided to get me a Noga for the spindle. I like this so much better!




As I posted earlier in this thread, I had previously bought an Indicol but I didn't like it so I sold it. The arms never really tightened up very firmly unless you really cranked down hard on the thumbscrews. Got the Noga, it's solid but there are times I wished I didn't have to remove the tool & swap in a collet to use it.

So I was watching a video someone posted by oxtools. In that video he had a Noga arm mounted on the Indicol base. Then I came across his video of it. A Noga and Indicol marriage. I thought that was a great idea so I decided to make me one too.

But I didn't buy another Indicol, this time I just bought an import clone for less than $10. Rather than drill & tap a hole on the mount like oxtools did I made an adapter. Like oxtools this time I'm using the Noga arm with fine adjust unlike my Noga that mounts in the collet. I really like this setup but I won't be putting my other Noga in retirement.


----------



## darkzero

My spindle light......

I came across one of those drill press quill LED lights. Saw that Tormach was selling their own version which they had Nichia LEDs installed & for cheaper than what other vendors were selling the regular one for. They appeared to be just typical T1 LEDs though (I didn't open it up to verify the size), there are 14 of them. It worked as intended but coming from modding flashlights I just couldn't stand the very cool tint of the LEDs. I also didn't like how bulky it was as I couldn't use my spindle mount indicator holder with it very well. I did like the no tools required installation & magnetic switch with coil wire though.














So I returned that light & decided to build my own after seeing the angel eye/halo LED that xalky used for his mill. The vendor he linked didn't have the size I wanted so I ordered it on ebay. I used a 90mm ring with 60 LEDs.


Here are the parts I used, the angel eye LED that I rewired, an AC to DC converter, & a lighted rocker switch.






I installed the AC to DC converter inside the control box which is being powered from the stock light's 24V circuit. It's connected to terminal 32 & the output of the white circuit breaker.






I choose the 90mm ring so it would fit just over the bottom ring on my quill. Had to remove just a bit of the ID to fit & it snaps right into place. Although I didn't need it I added a bit of double sided tape just in case. Couldn't have asked for a better fit!











Installed the lighted rocker switch on one of the existing holes & the other hole for the wiring to the control box. I wonder what these two threaded holes are used for?

















I'm very happy with this setup, very slim profile, & now I can still use my spindle mounted indicator holder. Thanks Marcel!

Thanks for looking.


----------



## coolidge

Very nice, quality install. Do you have a pic of the table with the light on vs off? I find anymore I need my work lit up like the sun to see. Also how much an hour to hire you to teach me how to weld like that stand in the first post wow! I picked up a used USA Hobart Mig recently and plan to fabricate a new stand for my lathe once the weather gets nice and I can do that project outside. The factory stand is about 5 inches too high for me.


----------



## darkzero

coolidge said:


> Very nice, quality install. Do you have a pic of the table with the light on vs off? I find anymore I need my work lit up like the sun to see. Also how much an hour to hire you to teach me how to weld like that stand in the first post wow! I picked up a used USA Hobart Mig recently and plan to fabricate a new stand for my lathe once the weather gets nice and I can do that project outside. The factory stand is about 5 inches too high for me.



Thanks! I'll be out tomorrow so I'll snap a pic if I get back in early enough or Sunday. Originally I was worried about it being too bright & was going to use a SPDT switch for dual brightness but I realized when I was test lighting the ring I had it running at 14V. It's not too bright, I was concerned about being too bright & glare. I mainly wanted this for when I use my super spacer since I use it on the left side of the table & the stock halogen  light is on the left so it's hard to see what I'm working on sometimes.

LOL, I wish I could weld like that too. The last time I welded was 10 years ago with a mig building a gate & I didn't know what I was doing. I first tried to mig the stand by myself with a welder I borrowed from a friend. That didn't turn out well & I didn't trust the mill on a stand I welded. So I just tacked it & took it to a local shop. Cost me $50, I was expecting to grind down the welds after I got it back but to my surprise they tig welded it. So....how much an hour for you to teach me how to weld? :lmao:


----------



## coolidge

darkzero said:


> Thanks! I'll be out tomorrow so I'll snap a pic if I get back in early enough or Sunday. Originally I was worried about it being too bright & was going to use a SPDT switch for dual brightness but I realized when I was test lighting the ring I had it running at 14V. It's not too bright, I was concerned about being too bright & glare. I mainly wanted this for when I use my super spacer since I use it on the left side of the table & the stock halogen  light is on the left so it's hard to see what I'm working on sometimes.
> 
> LOL, I wish I could weld like that too. The last time I welded was 10 years ago with a mig building a gate & I didn't know what I was doing. I first tried to mig the stand by myself with a welder I borrowed from a friend. That didn't turn out well & I didn't trust the mill on a stand I welded. So I just tacked it & took it to a local shop. Cost me $50, I was expecting to grind down the welds after I got it back but to my surprise they tig welded it. So....how much an hour for you to teach me how to weld? :lmao:



Damn it I thought I was going to get some expert welding tips, wait I believe I saw the appropriate emoticon...:yousuck2:lol Plus your avatar continues to give me lathe chuck drool. Thanks for the pic I'll check back on that. It was a real nice install it looks factory.


----------



## darkzero

coolidge said:


> Damn it I thought I was going to get some expert welding tips, wait I believe I saw the appropriate emoticon...:yousuck2:lol Plus your avatar continues to give me lathe chuck drool. Thanks for the pic I'll check back on that. It was a real nice install it looks factory.



:roflmao:

Well I can still give you some tips on welding but those are closely guarded secrets that I can not share! :rofl:

Thanks again! Yup I love 6 jaw chucks, true chuck porn! I have another 6 jaw on the way but not another Bison, an asian import for my rotary table. I'm very curious to see it, I'll post it here.


----------



## HangLoose

That light mod is boss!


----------



## darkzero

Adding a short video of the power downfeed here.

Power Down Feed Drilling with the PM45M-PDF










HangLoose said:


> That light mod is boss!



Thanks bruddah N!


----------



## darkzero

coolidge said:


> Do you have a pic of the table with the light on vs off?



Sorry it took so long.....

I'm no photographer so I'm not good with camera settings & capturing accurate photos but here they are. I put in the drill chuck to simulate something that would be in the way of lighting, hope it gives you a good idea.


With just overhead fluorescent lights.







Mill's halogen light (50w)






Spindle LED Light






Halogen light + spindle light


----------



## coolidge

Thanks I prefer the spindle light only, that's quite an improvement I may adapt to my drill press.


----------



## darkzero

No problem. Yeah, what I like the most is that there's really no shadows rather than having just a single light on either side.


----------



## coolidge

Exactly, its also that tungsten type of white/blue light which I find easier to see in. My distance vision is better than 20/20 but my up close vision is going to hell on me. I recently graduated to +2.00 reading glasses, without them everything up close is a blur. I'm fine on the lathe I have one of my 6 bulb daylight fixtures right over it they are like the sun. I see even your camera prefers the second picture, check out the rulers in all three pics the second looks the most crisp to me.


----------



## darkzero

Good eye! That's very true about the ruler, I planned on doing some closer pics of the ruler & is why I threw it in there but I didn't want to flood another post with a lot of pictures. Who knows if I will do more on lighting one day, can never have too much!


----------



## coolidge

Agree you can't have too much light, here's 30 bulbs of shop light power emanating from my 3 car garage, cue the close encounters of the third kind theme song!


----------



## darkzero

Holy crap! :lmao:

I think I need more lighting too! You'd probably can't see &%$* in my garage.

Nice truck!


----------



## skeeter355

That light is perfect! Can you give me some more info on the parts you used and what companies you got them from? Also the wiring is a little confusing on how you hooked it up. You have some great mods!

Thanks Skeeter


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## darkzero

skeeter355 said:


> That light is perfect! Can you give me some more info on the parts you used and what companies you got them from? Also the wiring is a little confusing on how you hooked it up. You have some great mods!
> 
> Thanks Skeeter



Thanks Skeeter!

Sure, no problem. Since you asked about the wiring I'm assuming you have a PM45 so I'll answer in regards to that, if not you'll should still get the general idea I hope.

For the LED ring, I used a 90mm (OD) ring that has 60 SMD (surface mount) LEDs. I purchased mine from ebay seller three-tech which is JLC Lighting. There are many others on ebay that sell them for varying prices & in different prices, I choose this seller only cause they were closer to me. Search "LED angel eyes" or "LED halo" (they're used for headlight conversions to mimic early 2000s BMW headlights). Super Bright LEDs also sells them but they did not have the size I needed. It fit right into the hole on my mill's head, no modifications or mounting hardware needed.

The ID of the 90mm ring is just a tad bit too small to fit over the quill bearing cap. I used a Dremel to open up the ID. Didn't take much, a few passes & my ring fit perfectly over the cap.

For the AC-DC converter, I purchased this one from Amazon. Also can be found on ebay, search "24 VAC to 12 VDC". You can use any 12V DC power source such as a wall wart like this. It doesn't need to be 1A, I believe my ring runs on just under 300ma. The LED ring has resistors already so you can just hook it up (making sure polarity is correct) to any 12V DC power source & that's it.

The reason I used the AC to DC converter is cause I did not want to power it off an external source like plugging it into an outlet. The stock halogen lamp on the PM45 is 24V AC so I choose to power it off that. That way it's powered off the mill & when I shut off power to the mill the light turns off as well without having to turn of the switch.

Here's another pic of my control panel. to the left you'll see a transformer with a gold name plate. On it you'll see that terminals 32 & 33 is 24 VAC which again is for the stock lamp. Directly under the transformer is an orange terminal block with terminals 32 & 33 (the blue & red wires) is what you want to wire up the AC to DC converter to. However if you follow the red wire on terminal 33, it leads to the white circuit breaker that's to the right of the transformer. So I hooked up 1 wire from terminal 32 directly to the converter for AC input. Then I hooked up another wire from the output end of the white circuit breaker to the converter for the other AC input.










Then you would run 2 wires for the DC output from the converter to the LED ring and a switch (polarity matters for the LED ring since it's DC). Negative from the converter runs directly to the black wire on the LED ring, do not use the common ground on the machine for negative. Positive from the converter runs to a SPST switch, then another wire from the switch to the red wire on the LED ring. That's all that's needed.

In my case I used a lighted rocker switch that has an LED indicator that runs off 12 VDC so I had to run an additional ground wire to the switch coming of the negative of the converter. This is the switch that I used, they're local to me but it can also be ordered online & they have other color indicators.

Hope that helps. If you need any more details I'll be happy to answer.


----------



## skeeter355

Awesome, thanks for the list. Will being buying the parts and then picking your brain if I need to. Yes I have a PM45.  So is the wiring to the light long enough for you to get full travel of the quill?  It looks a little short in the picture.

Thanks, Skeeter


----------



## darkzero

skeeter355 said:


> Awesome, thanks for the list. Will being buying the parts and then picking your brain if I need to. Yes I have a PM45.  So is the wiring to the light long enough for you to get full travel of the quill?  It looks a little short in the picture.
> 
> Thanks, Skeeter



No problem.

Yes the wire is plenty long, I actually rewired it to extend it. I have it so it just tucks into the head when the quill is retracted. 


Here is the quill fully extended to 5".






Here you can get a glimpse of what the original wiring looks like that comes on them.


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## darkzero

Made a backplate to mount a 6.25" chuck on my 8" RT. Once again Matt gave me an unbelievable deal on a 8" Vertex RT earlier this year that I could not refuse (well I tried but he won).


Started with an 8" blank backplate from Grizzly (SouthBend branded "fine grain" CI).







Took sometime to rough it out as it was thick & 1/4" oversized (Ø)












I hate machining cast iron. Anytime I machine a lot of CI (or Ti) is when I really take the time to clean up after.







Bolt circles made easy, can't get any easier than with the ES-12's graphical display. Well I do have a SS.


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## darkzero

Just a quickie....

When I got the mill I purchased one of those spline wrenches that some guy makes & sells on ebay. A few weeks ago I came across a "commercially" made wrench that was much nicer. To my surprise I found that LMS carries it. Even though I don't use it all that much I think it's worth the price, made in the USA too. Most of the time I just snug the draw bar by hand without even holding the spindle. But when I need to do some heavier milling I'll use the wrench & give it a quick snug.

Made by Luminar Products & it also fits Sieg X3 mills. Costs $20 & the "homemade" one on ebay is $10. I highly recommend the Luminar wrench.

Luminar Products website

Luminar spline wrench - LMS

ebay spline wrench


These 3 wrenches covers all my mill needs


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## zmotorsports

Nice looking setup Will.

When you going to break down and build a power drawbar for the PM45?  I thought I remember seeing you have a nice sized air compressor, your half way there already.)


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## darkzero

Thanks Mike! You know I never really thought about it. Guess it doesn't bother me too much or at least I'm not sick of yet. I do need to run an air line to mill though, well I already have air plumbed there. I have another cold air gun like on my lathe that I was thinking of using on the mill. Either that or hook up the coolant but not sure if I want to deal with the mess. Just been working on backed up projects for the mill & lathe as I get spare time. Working on a depth stop for the mill now.....


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## darkzero

Last year GaryK (MHRIP) asked if I wanted to go in with him on a set of T-slot covers. Well I never really thought much of them & just thought they might be cumbersome or something so I declined. He ended up getting them & posted about them here. 

I can't say that I have ever seen anyone use them except Gary. Thought about just making a table cover like many do & it would have been cheaper. Thinking about it I kind of like the idea of individual slots being covered rather than the whole table & I don't have a habit of setting tools down on the table. So I decided to give them a try & bought a set earlier this year. Plus they have holes for coolant drainage so if/when I hook up my flood coolant these will be perfect. Recently I really got sick of cleaning the T-slots so I finally installed them.








Relieved the middle ones to clear the vise T-nuts so I don't have to worry about the vise being perfectly center on the table all the time.






I made sections so they would slip under the vise & so I could just remove sections when needed like  for my work stop that I use quite often.












Well I'm pretty happy with them & sure makes clean up much quicker now. Too many damn colors! :lmao:


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## wrmiller

I forgot that we basically have the same mill. Cool.  

I had put some of those slot covers on my 'watch' list, but after seeing them on your machine I went ahead and bought them. Yellow and black should go together much nicer...  :rofl:


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## Stonebriar

I love the packaging "KEEP WORKING SURFACE ACLEAN".  Looks nice but you may have to paint those.

Rick


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## zmotorsports

I saw those and thought about them Will, but then again I had some 1/4" neoprene rubber already so I just cut them and notched for the mounting bolts on the vise.  

They look good on your mill, Will.


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## darkzero

Thanks Mike. I do like the idea, just wasn't fond of the gold anodize. Maybe I'll get used to them or maybe I'll just powder coat them some day. Doesn't really matter though I guess, they work. Well after all, it is an import. :rofl:


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## wrmiller

An import with yellow racing stripes!  :roflmao:


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## MarioM

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



darkzero said:


> Here you go. My stand is about 16" x 28" so I made the riser 1/4" wider on all sides.
> 
> EDIT: Forgot to add, I used 4 x 2 x 3/16 wall tubing.



Hi darkzero.  One question,  what kind of software you used to draw the stand?


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## darkzero

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*



MarioM said:


> Hi darkzero.  One question,  what kind of software you used to draw the stand?



That one I believe I used Draftsight. It's from the makers of Solidworks & it's free so give it a try. Plenty of tutorials on youtube. I haven't used it in a while so unfortunately I can't give you any pointers (I forgot everything).


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## MarioM

*Re: My First Mill - PM45M-PDF*

Thank you very much for the info.


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## Falcon67

Total edit after re-read.  Looks like the 90mm od will work here, only with rtv to stick the ring.  My collar is 96mm


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## darkzero

I have a PDF model which does not have a depth stop. Well I did mention in the past the power down feed depth limit can be used as depth stop but it's not designed to be used that way & since I know what components look like that allows it to work that way I didn't want to cause wear or damage from using it that way often. It doesn't repeat as well as I want anyway. Been wanting a strong solid depth stop so I finally made one.


Here's what I came up with & it works just as I hoped it would. I'm _very_ happy with it.







I used a Morton quick release quill stop that's made for BPs. Which means I used the same 1/2"-20 thread like on BPs. Here is showing the quill stop in action.







Here you can see how it's mounted. I probably went overboard on the thickness of everything but I want it to repeat well with no flex & is also why I decided not to use aluminum. And it does repeat excellent!







Quill fully extended.







I haven't decided if I will paint all these parts when I repaint the quill bracket. I kind of like it bare, maybe I'll just give them a final finish by hand. No rust issues here in Socal anyway.


The rest of the pics are just some WIP pics. I didn't take pics of every op & I won't post everything but you'll get the idea.

Machined the quill bracket on the lathe to ensure the top surface would be fairly square to quill.






Might as well do the bottom too.







Cleaning up the quill bracket.






















Verified how square it is, measuring to the table. I'm happy with that.







Working on the stop bracket.

















The head casting is not perfectly square as I needed it to be because of all the filler. It was about 1° off so to compensate for that I milled the angle using an adj angle block.












Working on the rod holder that mounts to the quill bracket.

















This is how my quill DRO used to mount. I kept that method the same but I went with a bigger bolt for for mounting the depth stop as you can see above, M6 to M8.







Also made a new mount & is why I cleaned up the cavity on the quill bracket, old vs new.











Thanks for looking!


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## JimDawson

I like it


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## zmotorsports

Beautiful work as always Will.


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## coolidge

Very nice work!


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## darkzero

Thanks fellas! 


Just wanted to add here how I modified my super spacer to bolt directly to my mill's table. 

Super Spacer (Indexer) Adjustment
























Here is how I used to mount it using a plate cause the mounting slots did not line up with my table slots. Post # 83


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## darkzero

Made a couple of tramming adjusting aids, no more using a mallet to poud on the head to move it & worrying about movement when tightening the nuts (well in theory).

 Haven't tried them yet but I will soon. Hopefully they'll be ok, if they flex I can always make them beefier & left room for bigger bolts, I think they'll be ok though.


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## coolidge

Darkzero your machines...they are annoyingly clean! :man:


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## sanddan

How exactly does it work? Is this for getting the tilt back to zero? I would love to have an aid for tilting the main column to get that trammed in.


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## darkzero

sanddan said:


> How exactly does it work? Is this for getting the tilt back to zero? I would love to have an aid for tilting the main column to get that trammed in.



Yes, they are used only for getting back to zero, used as fine adjustment after getting close to zero. The arms are threaded on the head side for set screws. To use them you loosen the head bolts, then loosen  one set screw & tightewn the other set screw to move the head one direction & vise versa. I added nuts for locking the set screws but they're probably not needed.

These RF45 style mills don't have any means of fine adjusting like BPs do. Whenever I trammed the head I would have to use a mallet on the head to move it. The head is pretty hefty so when I got close to zero, any additional miniscule adjustments took more time than I'm used to spending on it.


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## darkzero

Thanks to Bill (wrmiller) I decided to to replace my stock handwheels. I replaced the stock phenolic/bakelite wheels with some cast iron wheels. They weren't a bolt on solution so here's how I did it.


Stock:






New handwheels (I replaced the X, Y, quill, & handle for the Z).






WIP pics:

The revolving handles I used are 3/8-16" thread. My Z handle (head) is metric M10 so I turned down the threads, pressed on a sleeve, & rethreaded for the metric threads. Had to make a collet to hold the handle.
















I made the M10 thread longer than the 3/8" thread.











Installed.






Next was the quill fine feed handwheel. It did not come prethreaded for the handle so I had to drill & tap the 1/4-20 threads. Bored the center to fit my quill feed shaft & drilled & tapped for the set screw.





















Next was to machine the X & Y handwheels. The new cast iron handwheels had a much larger hub dia than my stock ones so I machined them down. Also had to bore the center. Unmachined as received on the left.











Machined the drive to match.











Finally, mounted.











My idea was to paint the center black. I may still do that, haven't decided yet. I really like the new handwheels and no more rattling from the damn stock handles when making moderate to heavy cuts.


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## zmotorsports

Looks great as alway Will.  I had purchased some BP style ball-crank handles on ebay that I was going to use on my PM932 when I ordered it.  After changing my order to the PM935 knee mill I sold the ball crank style handles to a guy on the forum who was going to put them on his PM932/45 mill.  

I like the way yours turned out.  One question, on the thread on the handle where you changed from 3/8" thread to the M10, how did you make it longer?  Did you drill and tap the handle and then make a threaed insert to thread in which protruded out further than the original or some other way?  Just curious.


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## wrmiller

OK, so now you're making me feel bad for not machining the back of the wheels. Well maybe not... :lmao:

I too was thinking of painting the insides of the wheels black. To match my mill. 

So, the final test: Do you like the feel of them over the plastic thingies?


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## darkzero

zmotorsports said:


> I like the way yours turned out.  One question, on the thread on the handle where you changed from 3/8" thread to the M10, how did you make it longer?  Did you drill and tap the handle and then make a threaed insert to thread in which protruded out further than the original or some other way?  Just curious.



Thanks Mike.

Sorry, I guess I should have taken more pics & explained better on that part.

3/8" major is .375" & M10 is .392" so that was obviously the issue....

First I turned down the 3/8-16 thread to a dia smaller than the M10x1.5 minor.







Then I made a new sleeve/slug & pressed it onto the turned down stud using an arbor press. I machined a few small shallow grooves on the shaft & added some red Loctite for good measure (I didn't have any purpose specific anerobic adhesive but threadlock has always worked fine for me in the past which is an anerobic adhesive anyway). 

If you look closely at the base of the stud & compare to the pic above you can see the slug is a larger dia.






Then I turned down the new slug to the dia I needed for the M10 thread & single pointed the thread.









wrmiller19 said:


> OK, so now you're making me feel bad for not machining the back of the wheels. Well maybe not... :lmao:
> 
> I too was thinking of painting the insides of the wheels black. To match my mill.
> 
> So, the final test: Do you like the feel of them over the plastic thingies?



My stock table handwheels attach with both using a center bolt & a set screw on the side. I decided to ditch the set screw & use the center bolt only so I needed the spline drive. Well I'm anal like that so I would have done it anyway. 

A couple of guys have said not to paint it already. I really wanted to paint the centers black but then again the paint might wear off over time from my hands (the crenelated part is what I'm worried about). Plus it's chrome plated, paint does not like to stick to chrome but then again the area I would be painting has the sand cast finish. Maybe I'll just leave it or maybe I'll powder coat the centers later (I have a hook up through a friend).

But yes, I like the CI handwheels, anything metal is better than the stock bakelite handwheels that I wanted to replace since day one (the first pair of handwheels arrived chipped with the mill & so did the second replacement). Even though my quill fine feed handwheel was metal, I like the feel of the open CI handwheel much better. Thanks again for the idea that finally pushed me to replace them.


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## zmotorsports

darkzero said:


>



Will, is this a 8" or 10" face plate?  It appears to be cast iron is that correct?  How did you mount it to the D1-4 camlock?  I have been looking at constructing a setup like this. On my last lathe I had an 8" faceplate that threaded directly on to the spindle but I haven't seen a direct mount D1-4 so I am assuming a faceplate and then bolting it to a camlock mount but I would like to see how you did yours if you don't mind.

Thanks.


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## darkzero

Mike, it's a 10" faceplate, cast iron, & it's a direct mount D1-4, it came with my lathe. I thought Matt included faceplates with all his lathes but it looks like it was optional for the PM1340GT?

Matt, does sell Taiwan made 10" D1-4 faceplates. This listing just ended but if you scroll down you can see the pics of it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-1...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## zmotorsports

Great. Thanks Will, I just stumbled across that same one after googling it.  

I appreciate the quick response.


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## darkzero

No probelmo Mike.


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## zmotorsports

darkzero said:


> Mike, it's a 10" faceplate, cast iron, & it's a direct mount D1-4, it came with my lathe. I thought Matt included faceplates with all his lathes but it looks like it was optional for the PM1340GT?
> 
> Matt, does sell Taiwan made 10" D1-4 faceplates. This listing just ended but if you scroll down you can see the pics of it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-1...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557




Thanks for the info on that faceplate Will.  I just got off the telephone with Nicole and have one coming as they had a couple left in stock.


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## sanddan

Those wheels look great on your mill. Would you mine sharing where you got them and the sizes?


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## darkzero

sanddan said:


> Those wheels look great on your mill. Would you mine sharing where you got them and the sizes?



Thanks.

The handwheels are made by Flair/Chang Iron, made in Taiwan. Grizzly had the lowest prices on them so I ordered from them. I wanted to match the sizes of my stock handwheels so I got 6" for the table & 4" for the quill fine feed. 

I choose to go with revolving handles as opposed to fixed. Again I wanted to match my stock handwheel sizes so I did not go with the ones Grizzly sells. The Grizzly ones are longer than my stock ones plus I never was a fan of the pointy shaped handles like on my rotab. They hurt when you bump into them! 

The revolving handles I got from ebay seller bjswoodworks, also made in Taiwan. The 6" handwheel is prethreaded for 3/8"-16, the 4" does not come prethreaded. I used 1/4"-20 for the 4".

Another thing that worked out great. The new handwheels are dished more than my stock ones. I use the protective cover for my table power feed limit switch. The cover would limit my Y-axis travel as it rubbed on my handwheel. With the new handwheels I have clearance so now I'm able to move the table all the way out to it's limit.













I'm glad that worked out cause I was planning to make an extension for the handwheel. This is the test piece I cut before machining the handwheels. I'm glad I no longer need it to make an extension.


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## sanddan

darkzero said:


> Sorry it took so long.....
> 
> I'm no photographer so I'm not good with camera settings & capturing accurate photos but here they are. I put in the drill chuck to simulate something that would be in the way of lighting, hope it gives you a good idea.
> 
> 
> With just overhead fluorescent lights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mill's halogen light (50w)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spindle LED Light
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Halogen light + spindle light



It's not a light question but I see you have a Mitutoyo digital mic. How do you like it and which model did you get? Every time I read one of your posts I see something I must get.


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## darkzero

sanddan said:


> It's not a light question but I see you have a Mitutoyo digital mic. How do you like it and which model did you get? Every time I read one of your posts I see something I must get.



Haha, sorry about that, it happens to me too!

I have the QuantuMikes. They are coolant proof but the main difference on these is they have rapid spindles so they turn much faster than other mics. I love them! I purchased them new.









I use the QuantuMikes most of the time but for over 2" I scored an old set of 0-6" Accupros. They're no Mitus that I want but they're made in the USA & I got them brand new for only $200. I believe they are made by Scherr-Tumico. They'll be fine for me until I score a 0-6" Mitu set someday.


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## outsider347

Will
Where did you purchase your halogen light fixture for your mill
Tks
ed


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## darkzero

outsider347 said:


> Will
> Where did you purchase your halogen light fixture for your mill
> Tks
> ed



Ed, the halogen light on my mill came with the mill. My lathe also came with the same lght but I replaced it with something else. I forget if the one on the mill was 50w. On my lathe it came with a 25w bulb & I replaced it with a 50w bulb before I replaced it. If the mill light came with 25w, then I probably replaced it with a 50w too.

It runs on 24v. grizzly used to sell them & also saw them on ebay (not sureif they still do). There was also a flourescent version but I have no idea how bright it is. If it's not listed on Grizzly's site anymore I know you can still probably get it as a replacement part from a G4003G or other.


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## mksj

You might also consider replacing the Halogen lamp with a LED, very bright without the heat. You need to check on the voltage and that they will run on AC if using a 24VAC transformer (this particular one will run on 12-24V).  I also prefer the whiter LEDs "Day Light" (3500-6000K) when machining. On the mill, a combination of lights helps prevent shadows, especially the spindle ring light is great. I use a 10W rectangular LED landscape flood light for my second lighting source on my mill. On my lathe I will add some back lighting along the back top edge of the splash guard.


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## darkzero

Thanks the for suggestion. I used to build custom flashlights (same SN on CPF) & is how I got into machining. So I am a LED guy & I'm very familiar with using LEDs & drivers. As much as I am a LED guy, I actually prefer the 50W halogens I'm using on my lathe & mill. LED technology keeps advancing & someday I may build me some LED fixtures but for now I'm fine with what I'm using now or until I run out of my bulb supply (I have 10 spares but haven't had one burn out yet in years).


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## darkzero

Got me some new finishing cutters for my mill. I do have a Glacern FM45 face mill which I love & it gives a nice finish but with these new cutters, I get even more beautiful finishes. But they can't remove material as fast as the face mill though....yep, they're good ol' fly cutters and I'm using inserts with them.


My BIG fly cutter, including a couple of smaller ones (more info here). I mainly wanted the big one so I could face 5"-6" in one shot.

















And the 2 smaller fly cutters it came with.


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## darkzero

I got this one, not for a better finish, but so it will save me money by allowing me to use the "unused" corners of my turning inserts. I use CCGT alot & for some reason I always kept all my old broken/worn inserts, glad I did. Tested it today & to my surprise it leaves a beautiful finish also!

It's a Dorian Recycle cutter, 2" dia, R8 shank, uses the 100° corners of CCMT inserts (more info posted here).


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## bartives

I like the PM45 but I am new to machining, still have not figured out when I can use the power downfeed.


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## darkzero

bartives said:


> I like the PM45 but I am new to machining, still have not figured out when I can use the power downfeed.



I just replied in the other thread. It was only a couple hundred more when I got my mill so I wanted it.


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## 65Cobra427SC

darkzero said:


> The drawbar that came with my mill is a piece of junk. the 7/16" thread was cut so poorly I don't think I could have copied the quality it if i tried to. It doesn't thread into an arbor smoothly & the whole draw bar wobbles bad. The metric thread on top was so loose, makes me wonder if I could thread a SAE nut on it! It works but I wanted to make a replacement for it. Nothing complicated but here's how I made it.



I happen to read this thread a while back, not thinking I would have to do the same thing some day. I haven't been using my PM932 due to issues with the drawbar. It took a while to finish other things but I finally removed it yesterday and found out I had the exact same problem. Mine were cut very poorly and the threads are slightly deformed as well. The collet could only connect by maybe 2 threads but it wasn't completely straight due to the deformed end, so the drawbar would spin wildly. So thanks for all your posts because they really do help.


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## bartives

Does anyone know the ACME Leadscrew thread sizes for the PM45?  I am wanting to fabricate a Delrin Anti-backlash nut for each axis. The x axis appears to be a 1-8, I get 0.9936 in eight turns on my DRO. Reversing direction back to zero on the hand dial leaves me with a positive .0008.  It is about .1242 per turn.   Close but not exactly the 8 threads per inch.


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## COMachinist

Hey thanks Will, I rembered that after you reminded me, see CRS. We just had a blizzard with 10.5" of snow with 45 to 65 mph winds so it will be a while before I can get back in to the shop, we have 4-6 ft drifts all over the place out here.
Thanks to all.
CH


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