# How to solder to these round lugs?



## Franko (Jan 2, 2018)

I need to replace the 3.5mm Jack on my headphones. I ordered this repair jack but I'm not sure how to go about soldering the wires to the cylindrical lugs. I guess just tin the wires and press them flat onto the lugs, but I fear enough heat will damage the plastic insulation around and isolating the lugs. Is there an official way to make this connection? the small lug is not hollow.

The lugs in question are marked with red arrows. I think I can handle the ground connection. I've repaired lots of stereo and mono jacks, but have not encountered lugs like these before.


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## JimDawson (Jan 2, 2018)

Best I can say is a drop of solder on the lugs, tin the wires, and solder together.  Never seen ones like those before either.


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## Reddinr (Jan 2, 2018)

I've done those and they can be tricky because of the melting problem.  Use rosin cored solder of fairly small diameter.  If you have a clip or pana-vise or third hand jig of some sort, that will make it easier to keep the wires in place while you apply just enough solder / heat.  For something like this, I will usually put solder on the surface of the lugs and on the wire, then melt the two together.   Be sure not to build up the solder too thick or the shell won't go back on.  You can fan the copper wires flat if you have to.  Also, don't forget to put the shell on the wire first (so you don't end up doing it twice).  Good luck.


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## Loco-Joe (Jan 2, 2018)

Find a spare jack, like on an extension cable or some piece of audio equip and plug the thing into it to hold it while soldering. It will act as a bit of a heat sink and keep the plug pieces lined up while soldering so even if the plastic gets a little soft while its warm, the pieces won't be able to move about. Let it cool before unplugging.
Joe


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## cathead (Jan 2, 2018)

My method would be to use some good radio flux to get the cylindrical parts tinned first.  If the solder wont "take", sometimes 
a little burnishing will help to get the parts to tin.  Once you have accomplished that, the soldering process will be a breeze. 
I would flux the wires and tin them as well in order that the soldering goes quickly.  A pencil tip iron would be my choice for
this kind of work along with using a bit of quality electronics grade solder.  Joe's idea would certainly be helpful for this job.
Thanks Joe!


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## magicniner (Jan 2, 2018)

Use an iron with enough mass at the tip to solder instantly, I use a 1/2lb copper iron for jobs where over heating could be a problem, heated with a blowlamp until the flame begins to show some green colour, gently scuffing surfaces to ensure they're absolutely clean and using a good lead/tin flux cored solder.  
It's counter-intuitive but you need a minimum temperature to solder and as time is your enemy a big iron at the correct temperature will do this kind of thing best, 
Regards, 
Nick


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## kvt (Jan 2, 2018)

Agree Burnish it , Tin you wire,  Then min temp needed. ,   I would also heat the wire as you stick it in and as light a touch on the other as possible.  Have done some like that, have also melted the insulation on some of the tips like that.  Good luck.


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## Franko (Jan 2, 2018)

Thanks to all for lots of good ideas. You guys are the greatest.

This is to repair a very good set of AKG headphones — worth the effort to repair.
This jack is very small, I can barely see the lugs. The wires I'm soldering to it are also tiny.
My close-up vision is departing. I think it is time I got one of those magnifying lamps.

I like the heat sink idea to maintain alignment, and will try it. I may try drilling a good fitting hole in a chunk of aluminum (if I have a bit that's a fit). Most of the female plugs don't apply even pressure on all sides, but press from one side.

Also tinning the lugs and the wires. Get the solder to stick to the lugs, then all I have to do when attaching the wires is melt a little of the solder and not heat up the whole lug. I have some very small 60/40 resin core solder.



cathead said:


> My method would be to use some good radio flux to get the cylindrical parts tinned first.  If the solder wont "take", sometimes
> Joe!



I've never heard of "Radio Flux." I looked for it but no results.
I did see 'no clean' soldering flux pens (and hypodermic applicators). Is that the same thing?


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## markba633csi (Jan 2, 2018)

Work fast, get in and out quick to avoid melting the plastic
The flux in the solder is probably enough/ 40 watt iron is fine you don't need a blowtorch
Mark
phase-plasma rifle in the 40 watt range?
"only what you see here pal"


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## RJSakowski (Jan 2, 2018)

+1 on a larger iron and in and out quick.  If the connection won't tin or the wire won't stick, pull away an let everything cool down before trying again. Good quality solder and flux make a big difference as well.  Also, you can try heat sinking the other connections while you are soldering.  A pair of needle nosed pliers clamped on with a rubber band will help. Bonus, if you mount them in a vise, you have a stable work area.


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## cathead (Jan 2, 2018)

Franko, 

I refer to flux as radio flux as opposed to a flux that would contain zinc chloride(corrosive) which generally used for galvanized  materials and such.
Kester is a well known brand in fluxes used in radio work.  There are two kinds that I use routinely on electronics.  One is Kester 186
which contains rosin and the other is Kester 961E which does not.  I have had good luck with both depending on the application.  
Hopefully this clears up any confusion on the subject.


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## Franko (Jan 2, 2018)

Thanks, Joe. Totally clear, now.  Kester multi-core is what I have. It has always been great for small connections.

RJ, the lugs are tiny. The big outside lug is so small I'll be lucky to get a pencil tip on it. I have a pencil tip with a flat that I plan to use. That'll be as much contact as is available. I've found that a bit of melted solder on the tip helps increase contact with small lugs.

I'll make a run to Altex after my dentist appointment this afternoon. Maybe they'll have a 3.5mm stereo repair jack with regular tabs.

The jack I'm replacing is not broken. I just want to shorten the wire. It has a 10' wire on it, which is just too long and unwieldy. I cut the old jack off and stripped the wires to see which goes to tip and ring. Strangely, I'm not getting any continuity from any of the wires to ring or tip. Ground does have continuity to the sleeve. That's weird, because the jack was working.

[edited to add: I tinned the wires and was able to get continuity.]

As near as I can determine the standard, Red is ring (right) and white is tip (left).


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## The Liberal Arts Garage (Jan 2, 2018)

may


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## pdentrem (Jan 2, 2018)

I use a soldering pencil with 33 watt element. Use rosin core electrical solder, it comes in varying diameters. Pre tin the ends and push the center wire down to the bottom of the tube. Usually there is a small hole down there. The other two are attached to the two tabs. A short touch and add a little solder and with a steady hand remove the heat. Put a little insulator between the wires going to the tabs if required and be sure to put the sleeve on first before soldering and in the right way!


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## pdentrem (Jan 2, 2018)

The shield wires go to the outside tab.


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## Franko (Jan 2, 2018)

I'm not sure what that means, George.

I tinned the wires and was able to get continuity. So, all is good.


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## JPMacG (Jan 2, 2018)

I have never seen lugs like that on a phono plug.   I wonder if the plug was even designed for solder connections.  Maybe it is intended to mate with some sort of wire termination.  I might look for another plug with more accessible lugs for soldering if I had to do the work.

Be sure to use old-school leaded electronic solder... Kester 44 or similar.  The lead free stuff has a higher melting temperature.


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## Franko (Jan 2, 2018)

Pierre, I plan to use small heat shrink to isolate the connections and reinforce the grip on the wires. It will add a little strain relief.
The center lug is not a hollow tube like banana and RCA jacks.

Here is a chart for stereo plug nomenclature and wiring.
Some stereo jacks have 4 connections. I'm guessing they are for balanced plugs and jacks.


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## Franko (Jan 2, 2018)

JPMacG said:


> I have never seen lugs like that on a phono plug.   I wonder if the plug was even designed for solder connections.  Maybe it is intended to mate with some sort of wire termination.  I might look for another plug with more accessible lugs for soldering if I had to do the work.




Jon, I thought that was possible, too. But, the jack describes itself as a solder type.


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## pdentrem (Jan 2, 2018)

This is a .125” diameter pin called miniature while the 1/4” plug is the phone size.


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## pdentrem (Jan 2, 2018)

I am finished my lunch so I am offline until supper. Good luck. I think you got it figured out though.


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## Franko (Jan 2, 2018)

Yup, it's a 3.5mm or 1/8" and it is tiny. They make smaller ones, even.

The photos I posted are very much enlarged macro shots.


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## Blackjackjacques (Jan 2, 2018)

Franko said:


> I need to replace the 3.5mm Jack on my headphones. I ordered this repair jack but I'm not sure how to go about soldering the wires to the cylindrical lugs. I guess just tin the wires and press them flat onto the lugs, but I fear enough heat will damage the plastic insulation around and isolating the lugs. Is there an official way to make this connection? the small lug is not hollow.
> 
> The lugs in question are marked with red arrows. I think I can handle the ground connection. I've repaired lots of stereo and mono jacks, but have not encountered lugs like these before.
> 
> View attachment 252700




You will spend more time dressing and sizing the wires than soldering.  Tinning the conductors beforehand is key.  Needing a heatsink is not needed, nor likely to help much. A reliable hot iron with a clean chisel tip will make the job easier so you can get in and get out quick. Having a solid soldering vice to hold the work securely will help.  I would work from inside out - that is, solder the tip, ring, and sleeve in that order.


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## RJSakowski (Jan 2, 2018)

I use a 60 watt controlled temperature pencil for delicate work but turn the temperature up for maximum heat transfer.  Another trick is to make an adapter for a larger iron. I have a 200 watt iron for the really big stuff but had a need for heating a small area but large thermal mass.  A wrap of 10AWG solid wire around the tip of the iron and terminating in a short stub allowed me to get enough heat into the work to make the connection.

63/37 tin/lead solder is the lowest melting point of the straight solders.  There are also low melting point solders available.


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## machPete99 (Jan 2, 2018)

I've done similar. Usually I use a scribe to pry up the center electrode so it is off of the plastic a bit.


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## Franko (Jan 2, 2018)

I was concerned that stripping the little wires would be difficult. It was, but not impossible. I have some wire strippers for very fine wire that worked nicely.

I'll probably use my 45 watt pencil soldering iron. It is the hottest one I have. I used a 100--140 watt pistol grip soldering gun to tin the wires. I agree that using a higher watt iron is good idea, so the parts will heat up fast and hopefully keep the heat local.

I'd like to thank all you guys. I know this wasn't a machining issue, but I was desparate and I figured ya'll were the best source I know of for such input. We are the sort of people who would be doing this sort of thing. I love this place.


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## jim18655 (Jan 2, 2018)

I've seen the 4 conductor jacks used on some phone earbuds to add a control switch to the cord.
The plastic is usually a high temperature type and takes the heat OK as long as you do the work quickly.
The best advice I can offer is "make sure you put the cover on the cable first" before you do anything else. I'll bet there's quite a few reading this thinking "forgot it once and won't do it again" but won't admit it.


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## Franko (Jan 2, 2018)

Jim, I've forgotten it more than once. Hooking up those jacks in order can be more demanding than plumbing.
I freely admit it. I am fallible, and every day that passes, more so. I think my smarts peaked about 20 years ago.


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## RJSakowski (Jan 2, 2018)

One additional trick.  When stripping fine wire, I score the insulation by melting with the soldering iron and pulling with my finger nails.  It prevents nicking the wire which can lead to future breaks.


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## Hukshawn (Jan 2, 2018)

As an audio tech for years running sound and lights in venues, I've repaired hundreds of cables. If the wires are single strand coated wires, a light lick of a flame and use your finger nail to get the costing off. tin both the wire and the lug, don't worry about heat too much. The plastic will ment slightly no matter what you do. A 40 or under watt iron is all that's needed. Put a blob on the iron, push the wire against the lug and heat with the iron. It's better If you orient yourself so gravity will let the solder fall into the connection. The thing to worry about is making sure the connection is flat enough so the cap will screw back on. Make sure you place a little bit of slack in the wire between the crimp and the solder connection or it will rip off. Not a loop or a twist, just a bit of slack.


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## Franko (Jan 3, 2018)

Here is an update on soldering the round lugs.
I failed miserably. Everything fought me.
I had a very difficult time tinning the wires. The lugs tinned ok.
My only iron that would tin the wires was a160-240 watt pistol grip gun.
It also worked on the lugs, but the tip was too big to get on the large inside lug.

I clamped the business end (sleeves, rings and tip) in groves of a Panavise. Not so much for heat sink, but to hold it steady.

I gave up and used a plastic jack I picked up at Altex. The regular soldering lugs stuck out and I could get to them.
the big iron did the best soldering but was a little clunky fitting into tight spaces — but it worked and it is all soldered up and it works.







the plastic covers on the later jacks don't look as swavey as the metal ones but the work just fine.
I covered the ground lug with a bit of shrink wrap tubing that extended about 1/5" beyond the plastic jacks strain relief. It provides a little more strain relief. I've used that trick on many guitar, instrument and PA cables.


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## Hukshawn (Jan 3, 2018)

I apologise I didn't mention flux. When tinning you need to apply solder flux to the surfaces before heating. Even with flux core solder. It gives a much better result. 

The pistol grip is much too big and hot for a job like this.
I'm glad you did get it sorted out in the end, tho. 

Did you happen to check which wires were left and right so the balance is still correct? 

If you have a multeter, select ohm test (or the beep test). Touch the black probe to the bottom ring and the red to the tip sleeve on the headphone plug. That should be left, then the bottom ring to the center ring should be right. Wearing the headphones you should hear clicking when the probes are applied. 

In ohms testing, the meter uses a small amount of voltage in the probes. Enough to actuate the speakers.


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## Franko (Jan 3, 2018)

Thanks for your comments, Shawn.
I did use flux on the wires and contacts.
I did check the polarity and continuity. It is all correct.
Even with flux, the pencil grip and smaller pistol grip irons didn't work for me on this project. The time on heat was just too long.

I was concerned about a short on the red (right) wire as the insulation burned back some. But the white wire insulation was ok and there is no contact between them and since the cover is non-conductive, they can't short on it. As you can see, those wires are tiny yet they fill up the area inside the jack's cover.

If they give me any trouble shorting, I'll just open it up and fill the gaps with silicone. The plastic jacks were cheap, so I picked up a couple spares, if it needs repair.


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## Hukshawn (Jan 3, 2018)

The 1/8" plugs are a pain. Especially when you get into the 4 sleeve plugs. NOT a lot of room in there... Soldering DIN connectors and VGA connectors are a nightmare. 

I'm glad it worked out. 
I wouldn't worry much about using the cheaper plug. For general headphone use you will never notice a difference between gold plated and nickel/chrome.


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## Franko (Jan 3, 2018)

Thanks, Shawn.

One thing this project made clear. I need to get a good desk magnifying lamp, or maybe a head type. I had a very hard time seeing what I was doing.


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## Blackjackjacques (Jan 3, 2018)

Don't feel bad - you have to mess up one or two before you get reasonable at it.  It sounds like the big problem you had was in tinning the conductors beforehand. Frequently, flex-service conductors will include an insulation around the individual wires, such as Litz wire, and sometimes you will find the dreaded aluminum.  For copper conductors with a polymer insulation, or coating, you need to strip the insulation using something like MEK and/or a small flame (but not at same time).   However, you got it to work and that is what counts. Congrats.


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## Franko (Jan 3, 2018)

Thanks, Jack. You make good points.

I know the shield wire was copper. The other wires were silver colored and could have been aluminum. (I don't even know if solder will take to aluminum) Once I used the hot iron, I had no problem with them, or the shield wire.

Strangely, the hardest wire to tin was the copper shield. I lliked to never got it hot enough to take solder. I even tried flame from a butane cigar lighter. (it sooted up but did tin a little) I tried every trick I knew, pressing it against something, and clamping it in the vise and clipping a hemostat to it for weight so I could make good contact with the iron. None of those tricks worked, until I broke out the big pistol soldering iron.


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## RJSakowski (Jan 3, 2018)

Franko, In my experience, the plastic barrels have the same thread as the metal barrels.  I have swapped them in the past.


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## Franko (Jan 3, 2018)

RJ, you don't seriously think I'm going to take that thing apart to change the barrel, do you?  My God, I can't think of anything I'd rather not do. It works now. I'm not going to poke it with a stick.

In spite of numerous admonitions, I still soldered the ground wire on the first try without slipping the barrel over the wire. I'm beginning to think it must be a necessary step when repairing a jack.


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## Blackjackjacques (Jan 3, 2018)

Franko said:


> Thanks, Jack. You make good points.
> 
> I know the shield wire was copper. The other wires were silver colored and could have been aluminum. (I don't even know if solder will take to aluminum) Once I used the hot iron, I had no problem with them, or the shield wire.
> 
> Strangely, the hardest wire to tin was the copper shield. I lliked to never got it hot enough to take solder. I even tried flame from a butane cigar lighter. (it sooted up but did tin a little) I tried every trick I knew, pressing it against something, and clamping it in the vise and clipping a hemostat to it for weight so I could make good contact with the iron. None of those tricks worked, until I broke out the big pistol soldering iron.



No - aluminum will not solder. The wires may have been coated.  Next time you can try cleaning the wires first with a solvent and see if that helps.  Those tiny conductors always seem to be a pain.


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## Blackjackjacques (Jan 3, 2018)

Franko said:


> Thanks, Shawn.
> 
> One thing this project made clear. I need to get a good desk magnifying lamp, or maybe a head type. I had a very hard time seeing what I was doing.



My eyes are not so great either.  I have a few of those Luxo desk lights with the center magnifier and circular fluorescent lamp.  The Luxo's seem sufficient for me in handling small parts and small soldering.  If you get a head type - go for the visor unit in lieu of the magnifying glasses - unless you opt for the expensive top-shelf glasses like what surgeon would wear and made for your eye corrective prescription, etc.


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## Blackjackjacques (Jan 3, 2018)

Franko said:


> Thanks, Jack. You make good points.
> 
> I know the shield wire was copper. The other wires were silver colored and could have been aluminum. (I don't even know if solder will take to aluminum) Once I used the hot iron, I had no problem with them, or the shield wire.
> 
> Strangely, the hardest wire to tin was the copper shield. I lliked to never got it hot enough to take solder. I even tried flame from a butane cigar lighter. (it sooted up but did tin a little) I tried every trick I knew, pressing it against something, and clamping it in the vise and clipping a hemostat to it for weight so I could make good contact with the iron. None of those tricks worked, until I broke out the big pistol soldering iron.


...also...if you are going to do much soldering, especially the small stuff, you will want something like a Weller soldering station (e.g., WES51 etc) instead of a soldering pistol.  Those large 100-200 W Weller soldering guns with the closed-loop copper tips are for bruiser soldering applications - I have never had any luck in precise soldering with those big guns.


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## Franko (Jan 3, 2018)

I am having problems with dry eyes. My eye doctor recommended some drops, but so far they aren't helping much. My close up vision goes in and out.

I am checking out some visor type magnifiers. I used to have one of those fluorescent desk magnifiers, but it's gone somewhere. I never could draw under one of those. I have all kinds of hand magnifiers but soldering takes two hands (so do watch screws).

I don't do that much small soldering anymore. There was a time when I made lots of cables but not so much anymore. I had a pretty good Unger 40 watt soldering (woodburning) pencil, with a small chisel tip, but I couldn't find it.


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## Blackjackjacques (Jan 3, 2018)

Probably just as well that you did not find your Unger woodburning iron - the contaminants from woodburning would have messed up the joint. You do not want to use a woodburning iron on a soldering joint - you need a dedicated iron that has never seen anything other than rosin core solder.  The SE MH1047L Illuminated Multi-Power LED Head Magnifier for under $10 available on Amazon has been always good to me.  You can spend more - much more, and not get the value.  The SE sits tight and steady on the head and is very light - making its use pleasurable.


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## silence dogood (Jan 3, 2018)

I'd like to add one more thing on soldering.  It should look like the solder flowed so it looks smooth and shiny.  If it's dull and jaggy, redo.


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## silence dogood (Jan 3, 2018)

silence dogood said:


> I'd like to add one more thing on soldering.  It should look like the solder flowed so it looks smooth and shiny.  If it's dull and jaggy, redo.


PS, Franko, I'm sure that you know that, this for guys who have done little or no soldering.


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## Franko (Jan 4, 2018)

Yeah, I've been soldering a long time. There are still things to learn, though.

The Unger has multiple tips. The soldering tip is only for soldering. I don't think I even have any of the wood burning tips. It has been around a very long time — at least 45 years — probably longer. It is probably the first soldering iron I ever got.


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## MikeInOr (Jan 5, 2018)

I am glad I am not the only one that has problems with those plugs!  What a pain!

This is what I use when soldering:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01H8808H6/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1




$15 on amazon and the two LED lights put out a pretty good amount of light.  They come with 5 interchangeable lenses each with a different magnification.  This picture shows the lens mounted with the curved side away from your face.  It works a lot better with the curved side of the lens towards your face.


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## kd4gij (Jan 5, 2018)

this works good.
https://www.harborfreight.com/jumbo-helping-hands-with-led-lights-65779.html


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## silence dogood (Jan 6, 2018)

Franko, There is a type of soldering called resistance soldering. Looked it up and that may be the way to do it.  Trouble is, a resistance soldering station can cost up to 200to300+ bucks, and that's one reason why I never tried it.  However, there is a site that you can build your own using an auto battery charger, 1/4" carbon rods, and other materials.  Sounds like it might be a future fun project.  Anyway, I've been soldering as long as you have.  you are right, there is always something to learn.


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## petertha (Jan 6, 2018)

One of my other hobbies is RC airplanes. The electric models demand some fickle soldering now & again. This is an electric sailplane with a DB9 plug & wiring harness that connects the 4 wing servo leads back to the receiver in located in the fuselage. Some of the wires are doubled up on common pins which is a PITA. Soldering is the normal/preferred mode but actually when the wires are cramped & constrained, this can be a liability because now the joint is hard (= break failure point). 

I bought some pure silver rings which come in all sizes and a teeny plier crimp tool. This stuff is used by the jewelry bead hobbyists & very inexpensive. It was crimped & completed before the solder iron would have been warm. Actually all RC plugs are crimped inside their male/female housing. Its a lot more common in industry than I realized. Just mentioning to keep in your bag of electrical tricks.


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## British Steel (Jan 6, 2018)

Ex-AKG lab' and field engineer here....

The inner cores are probably "tinsel cable", coated strands of flat copper wrapped over a non-metallic strength member, after stripping it's a good idea to dip in acetone (or methylene chloride if you can get it and have good ventilation) and wipe with paper towel to remove the coating before trying to tin the ends, otherwise you can cook the insulation to the point where it starts to flow and the cores short...

Dave H. (the other one)


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## British Steel (Jan 6, 2018)

"The best advice I can offer is "make sure you put the cover on the cable first" before you do anything else. I'll bet there's quite a few reading this thinking "forgot it once and won't do it again" but won't admit it."

Yep, and it's always the fat multicore...

Dave H. (the other one)


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## petertha (Jan 6, 2018)

This is the beading hardware I used. Actually even for small (22-24) gauge wire splicing. The pliers have kind of a 2-step crimp, first it flattens, then on a different plier jaw position it U shapes the ring back on itself. No way that bugger is coming apart & no risk of cold or iffy solder joints. Its now my go-to method. 

The DB9 plug was a bit different, they are semi open tubes (solder pots maybe they are called) so I just flat crimped the appropriate diameter silver sleeve. This was kind of a special case though where the wires coming off have to make a hard-90 right at the end of the tube because its constrained by the wing skin. The consequence of iffy connection on these plugs is rather dire -no power or signal to servo = no control = $$ model either goes bye-bye or pounds the dirt.


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## Franko (Jan 6, 2018)

British Steel said:


> "The best advice I can offer is "make sure you put the cover on the cable first" before you do anything else. I'll bet there's quite a few reading this thinking "forgot it once and won't do it again" but won't admit it."
> Dave H. (the other one)



I'll admit that I've forgotten it more than once.


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## Franko (Jan 6, 2018)

I purchased these on Amazon and am completely satisfied with them. Very sharp lenses and good construction.
I chose them because of a Wiki review of about 10 different visors. These were the #1 recommendation.
I chose not to get one with illumination because sometimes LEDs don't make an even light and highlights and shadows can obscure what you are trying to see. Anywhere I use them will be well illuminated by good broad diffuse light sources.
I like the 8" focal length because it gives decent magnification and there's room for a screw driver under them.

*MagnifyLabs Headband Magnifier - (Hands Free Optical Visor / Binocular Magnifier)
- with One Optical GLASS Lens Plate (2.5x at 8" Focal Length) - $20*

*

*

*An additional lens kit is available for about $16*
3.5X Magnification (10-Diopter Lens / 4" Focal Distance)
2.0X Magnification (4-Diopter Lens / 10" Focal Distance)
1.5X Magnification (2-Diopter Lens / 20" Focal Distance)


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