# ran the #12 table past the limit!!



## eddysykes (Jan 22, 2014)

I hooked up my #12 today for the first time and I ran the powerfeed past the limit stops and now its stuck!!
I was showing my wife how cool the power feed was and I didnt even think to look at where the table was when I started it
The power feed didnt have the stops so I ran the table all the way to the left and it cut out and jammed up pretty good.
How do I back the table out? I dont want to make it worse by just yarding on it..
Thanks in advance
Eddy


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## Cal Haines (Jan 22, 2014)

eddysykes said:


> I hooked up my #12 today for the first time and I ran the powerfeed past the limit stops and now its stuck!! ...
> The power feed didnt have the stops so I ran the table all the way to the left and it cut out and jammed up pretty good.
> How do I back the table out? ...
> Thanks in advance
> Eddy


Hi Eddy,

Did you damage your right side handwheel bracket?

Try pulling the right handwheel and unbolting the bracket.  You should then be able to back the table up with the left handwheel without needing to remove the Woodruff key on the right.

Let me know if that works.

I don't know why so many No. 12s show up with the permanent feed stops  removed.  I guess over time its inevitable that a moron will come along  and take them off to get a little more travel.  For everyone else, I you're missing either one of the permanent stops, which have tapped holes  to locate them, it's only a matter of time before you wind up like Eddy.

_Cal_


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## Todd (Jan 23, 2014)

Cal do you happen to have a picture of what the perm. feed stops look like?  i have always wondered what the tapped holes are for at each end of the T slot where the move-able feed stops are.


Thanks

Todd


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## eddysykes (Jan 23, 2014)

Cal,
Thank you very much.. it worked as prescribed!
THe bracket is undamaged and as soon as I backed off the bolts I was able to give the drive shaft a twist and the engagement detent popped out and it was free!!
Making the stops today, and I was wondering if you had a drawing or if there is a file on the server here.
I cant access the downloads until I have x number of posts it seems.. 
THanks again
Eddy

- - - Updated - - -

Also, 
I found your drawing of the tit-key and made that yesterday. Thanks again, fit great!!!
I got a set of collets from cheap tools and everything worked out good except for the threads on one of the collets.
It was pretty crappy and I was wondering what the pitch is so I can chase them a bit.( I dont have a thread gauge)
Or if by any luck there is die that I can get that will make the job easy.


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## Cal Haines (Jan 23, 2014)

Eddy,

I should have confirmed that the table was traveling to the left when this happened.  (If it was moving right, the solution that I suggested won't work.)

Todd,

Here's a photo showing the fixed stops:


I don't think that the geometry is critical.

_Cal_


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## eddysykes (Jan 23, 2014)

the table has traveled all the way to the right, and is NOT free..
Not gonna get into it, but how is the fix different now?
Thanks a ton cal.. you have been a huge help so far

- - - Updated - - -



	

		
			
		

		
	
 This is a photo of the condition!
yuck


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## Cal Haines (Jan 23, 2014)

eddysykes said:


> the table has traveled all the way to the right, and is NOT free..
> Not gonna get into it, but how is the fix different now?
> Thanks a ton cal.. you have been a huge help so far
> 
> ...


Hi Eddy,

It's been a while since I was into this part of the machine, but IIRC, you need to remove the left bearing lock ring, part #21-353 (see attached diagram).  It has 3 holes for a face spanner.  If it's jammed really tight you may need to make a custom spanner that engages all three holes.  I have a way to make one, but you need access to a lathe and drill press.

When you unscrew the lock ring it should take the pressure off the leadscrew so that you can back it off.

_Cal_


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## Bill C. (Jan 23, 2014)

Todd said:


> Cal do you happen to have a picture of what the perm. feed stops look like?  i have always wondered what the tapped holes are for at each end of the T slot where the move-able feed stops are.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> ...



The holes are usually fixed dead stops whether you use movable stops or not. Make sure the contact switch hits the stop.  

Another tip, I learned the hard way, be sure to loosen the table clamp(s) before engaging the power feed.  I wiped out the brass nut under the table on a BP.


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## eddysykes (Jan 23, 2014)

Great.. I have both.. Lathe and DP.
Clockwise or counter clockwise ?
It looks like someone did the same thing once or twice and the holes are pretty hacked up with what looks like a cold chisel.. I will try to use a reamer or just drill them out 
Ok, thanks again Cal.. I will keep you posted


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## Cal Haines (Jan 23, 2014)

I think it's a right hand thread, but I'm not sure.

Do you have a face spanner like the one on the photo?

_Cal_


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## eddysykes (Jan 23, 2014)

Cal
I made a 3 pin spanner and was able to get the first part out pretty easy, but it still is jammed
I see another 3 pin part that looks to be the same hole pattern but isnt,,
that particular part is very very hard to get off..

- - - Updated - - -



	

		
			
		

		
	
  Is this the part that needs to come out as well?


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## Cal Haines (Jan 24, 2014)

eddysykes said:


> Cal
> I made a 3 pin spanner and was able to get the first part out pretty easy, but it still is jammed
> I see another 3 pin part that looks to be the same hole pattern but isnt,,
> that particular part is very very hard to get off..
> ...


The collar that you removed is the part that clamps the inner races of the two bearings against a shoulder on leadscrew, on the other side of the bearings.  The inner ring clamps the outer races of the bearings to the table casting.  The leadscrew should now be free to travel to the right, coming out of the bearings.  You shouldn't need to remove the inner ring to pull the leadscrew.

I would try giving the left end of the leadscrew solid taps, with a block of wood in place to protect the end, while an assistant holds pressure on the right handle in the direction to move the table to the right.  Shoot a good penetrant (not WD-40) around the leadscrew-bearing interface and let it sit for a while.  Don't go nuts beating on the leadscrew.  The idea is for the impacts to help you break the screw loose.  If it doesn't move after a few attempts, apply more penetrant and try again tomorrow; repeat.

_Cal_


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## GK1918 (Jan 24, 2014)

I try to digest this, but wonder if two people with a steady pressure would do it?   Things happen I know my "extreme" stops are cast into the
housing (as well as two adjuable stops)  feel bad just go slow at it....


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## eddysykes (Jan 24, 2014)

the beatings have begun>>
Was wondering if removing the inner race would do anything whatsoever, ;
I also disengaged the feed gear be removing the cast iron cover and pivoting down the spur(?) gear..
the up side is that I am getting to know the machine way more then I was planning..


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## Cal Haines (Jan 24, 2014)

I don't think that removing the ring that holds the inner race will help.

A couple more things to trY:

Unbolt the right side bracket and see if you can get the leadscrew to move.  The only thing holding the leadscrew at that point is the big ACME nut in the saddle.  If it's not bound up, you should be able to unscrew the leadscrew.

Loosen or remove the table gib:  The table gib is in the saddle, against the front side of the table dovetail. There's a screw in either end that controls its position.  The screw on the right has a slot that locks into a notch on the right end of the gib (see photos).  To loosen the gib you back off the right screw and tighten the left screw.  Keep switching sides until the gib moves easily.  If the screw on the right won't back off, remove the left screw and use a brass drift to tap on the left end of the gib, periodically backing off the right screw.  Once the gib is out, you should be able to coax the table to move left by grabbing the right end and pushing and pulling at right angles to the leadscrew (your trying to apply a twisting force to the table).  You can also try careful, cushioned blows to the right end of the table.

_Cal_


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## Cal Haines (Jan 24, 2014)

eddysykes said:


> ...
> I got a set of collets from cheap tools and everything worked out good except for the threads on one of the collets.
> It was pretty crappy and I was wondering what the pitch is so I can chase them a bit.( I dont have a thread gauge)
> Or if by any luck there is die that I can get that will make the job easy.


The thread on the collets is a special thread, 0.775-18.http://jmkasunich.com/vannorman/VN_Spindle.htm​
It's very unlikely that you'll find a die in that size.  Use the threads on the other collets to verify that the pitch of the threads on the bad collet is right.  You could try chasing the bad threads on the lathe, but you'll probably have as much luck with an 18-pitch thread repair file or just a diamond-shaped file.  If you want to get fancy, thread the ID of a piece of brass 18 TPI, so that it's a tight fit to your good collets, split it, charge it with fine abrasive and use it to lap the threads on the bad collet.

_Cal_


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## ScubaSteve (Jan 25, 2014)

+1 to the gibs...loosen those and give the table several good blows with a *rubber* mallet or deadblow hammer. Should relieve enough tension to be able to crank the table back over. Be sure you keep the power feed toggle on the table in neutral!


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## eddysykes (Jan 27, 2014)

Thanks for the help
I will give that a try today.. Man, I hope that works..
Its been a very painful few days..
E


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## eddysykes (Feb 5, 2014)

Ok, I have been taking a break from this for a bit, but have been giving it penetrating oil and a few wacks every day since.. I removed the gib and I will post what that looks like tomorrow.. it has some specific looking notches milled into it and I didnt see those on Cals photo
Anyway, and all to say that there has been no remedy as of yet.. the table is free to move in the way described by you guys so I hope I am getting close.. but other then systematically taking this thing apart piece by piece, It isnt giving up the fight!!! 
More updates tomorrow!!


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## Cal Haines (Feb 6, 2014)

eddysykes said:


> Ok, I have been taking a break from this for a bit, but have been giving it penetrating oil and a few wacks every day since.. I removed the gib and I will post what that looks like tomorrow.. it has some specific looking notches milled into it and I didnt see those on Cals photo
> Anyway, and all to say that there has been no remedy as of yet.. the table is free to move in the way described by you guys so I hope I am getting close.. but other then systematically taking this thing apart piece by piece, It isnt giving up the fight!!!
> More updates tomorrow!!


The gib should have two notches in the right end for the right gib screw.

You say the table is free to move, but it's still stuck.  How does it move and what's stuck?

_Cal_


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## eddysykes (Mar 27, 2014)

ok, Im back at this!! 
I managed to get the table off with Cals suggestions of removing the gib and the entire table slid right off no problem( took it off by sliding it to the left) 
But the lead screw is still jammed.. so I ordered a few spanners from McMaster and I am posting these in the hope that the VanNorman Gods will take pity on me...
	

		
			
		

		
	




 It looks as if the brass spanner nut is deformed.. maybe from the crash.. -probably from the crash...
as I was saying before, the lead screw is completely static.. stuck .. so I am really at a loss here..


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## Cal Haines (Mar 27, 2014)

Hi Eddy,

I'm away from my drawings right now.  I think I know what to do, but let me check a couple of things and get back to you tomorrow.

You will need a hook spanner to loosen the back-lash adjustment nut and lock ring, shown in the last photo.

_Cal_


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## eddysykes (Mar 27, 2014)

that sounds like good news!!
I have a few spanners coming here today
E


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## Cal Haines (Mar 28, 2014)

OK, I think I know what happened.  I think when you ran the table to the end, the feed screw managed to tighten the backlash adjustment nut until the screw bound up in the two halves of the nut.  This happened because the lock ring on the adjustable screw as not tight.

Here's a drawing that shows the table feed nut on a Van Norman No. 12:



The fixed part of the nut is 12-619; it's a long cylinder with an internal ACME thread in one end, the other end has an internal thread for the adjustable nut, 12-620.  12-620 has an internal ACME thread and an external thread, which threads into 12-619.  As the feed nut wears, 12-620 can be run in or out the remove the backlash in the table feed.  12-563 is a lock ring that is tightened against the end of the table casting to keep 12-620 from moving.  Whoever tried to adjust the backlash on your table last left the lock ring unscrewed, so that 12-620 could move.

You'll need to rotate 12-620 to loosen it.  I don't know which way you'll need to rotate it; it could be jammed in either direction.  Based on your photos, I think it needs to screw in (clockwise) to release the leadscrew, but that's just an educated guess.  Pick a good spanner hole in the end of 12-620 and give it a try.  You can leave 12-563 alone.

I'm glad that you have the right tool on the way; trying to do this with a punch or whatever is a good way to further damage it.  Give the external threads on 12-620 several shots of a good penetrant (not WD-40) and let it sit overnight before you try.

_Cal_


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## eddysykes (Apr 1, 2014)

Cal,GOT IT!!!!
lots of beating and in the end I had to use a pipe wrench on the end of the lead screw to get it off the 620 backlash screw.. but it worked!!
thank you for walking me through all of it..
NOW.. 620 is pretty beat up, spanner holes are toast, the end is mush.. its pretty much garbage... are there any out there that people are selling?
Again thanks.. 
Eddy


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## Cal Haines (Apr 2, 2014)

eddysykes said:


> Cal,GOT IT!!!!
> lots of beating and in the end I had to use a pipe wrench on the end of the lead screw to get it off the 620 backlash screw.. but it worked!!
> thank you for walking me through all of it..
> NOW.. 620 is pretty beat up, spanner holes are toast, the end is mush.. its pretty much garbage... are there any out there that people are selling?
> ...


Repair Parts Inc. can probably sell you one, but it won't be cheap.  Several year back, Nelson had a parts machine, but I don't know if he salvaged 12-620 before he scrapped it; PM him and ask.

I think I would just turn the damaged part off and silver-solder on a new spanner ring, basically just a thick ring with the spanner holes.

_Cal_


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## ScubaSteve (Apr 2, 2014)

Don't be so quick to scrap it! Do you have a lathe or know someone who has one? You can fix the end by truing it up and making a bushing/adapter. You don't use the anti-backlash screw too often, so if you can also true up the circumference on said lathe, you should be in good shape....at least enough to have a useful hobby machine.


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## eddysykes (Apr 15, 2014)

thats a good idea.. rebore the spanner holes, silver solder up some meat on the deformed sections... Good as new
Thanks.. Ill do just that..
I have a clausing so its I can turn it .. right after I fix the veri drive!! Hmmmm, old machines... Sometimes I wonder..


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## Les Shelley (May 13, 2014)

Just joined this morning. I have exactly the same situation on my VN12. First day,showing the new toy off etc. Anyway it looks like you got through it. Any shortcuts? Or do I just need to get table off and go to it? 

 Les


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## Cal Haines (May 13, 2014)

Les Shelley said:


> Just joined this morning. I have exactly the same situation on my VN12. First day,showing the new toy off etc. Anyway it looks like you got through it. Any shortcuts? Or do I just need to get table off and go to it?
> 
> Les


Hi Les,

Welcome aboard!  Sorry to hear that you're off to a rough start.

You don't necessarily need to remove the table.  Try taking the gib out first (see post #15) and see if that loosens things up.  Eddy's problems were complicated by the fact that the lock-ring on his backlash adjustment nut was left loose and allowed the nut to bind the leadscrew up; hopefully you won't have the same problem.  Let me know if that works.

_Cal_


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## Les Shelley (Jul 16, 2014)

Ok, I made a couple of spanners to get the bearings loosened and then get the table off. Ispection showed everything to be in surprisingly great condition. After reassembly the powerfeed is slipping so I guess I'll find a shearpin under the table but I haven't investigated that yet. Any info would be great. Otherwise I'll dig in again this weekend!!!


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## Cal Haines (Jul 24, 2014)

Les Shelley said:


> Ok, I made a couple of spanners to get the bearings loosened and then get the table off. Ispection showed everything to be in surprisingly great condition. After reassembly the powerfeed is slipping so I guess I'll find a shearpin under the table but I haven't investigated that yet. Any info would be great. Otherwise I'll dig in again this weekend!!!



Hi Les,

I've been away on a family emergency.

I'm not aware of any shear pins in the feed mechanism; it's gears and shafts all the way through.  If I were you I would take the table back off and see what's going on.  You can run the feed both directions and make sure that the left hand bevel gear is turning when the feed is engaged.

Do you still have the original silent chain drive on the feed gearbox?

_Cal_


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## Les Shelley (Sep 20, 2014)

I found the shearpin where the power feed universal joint fits on the worm gear. Made one on my old Hendy. Used the compound to get the .025 in 1 1/4" taper. Worked great.
Yes the power feed still has the silent chain.
 The oilers on the spindle look to have been packed with white grease. It's old and dried so I dug out what I could and added motor oil to cut it a bit. The bearings all run quiet but it wants to heat up. After 30 or so minutes of running at 940 rpms it's warmer to the touch than I like. Enough to leak from the back seal. The drippings then solidified to the consistency of a cold stick of butter. Your thoughts?

Thanks for your help and I'll check back in a few days

Les


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## Cal Haines (Sep 20, 2014)

Les Shelley said:


> I found the shearpin where the power feed universal joint fits on the worm gear. Made one on my old Hendy. Used the compound to get the .025 in 1 1/4" taper. Worked great.
> Yes the power feed still has the silent chain.


Hi Les,

FWIW, that pin should be a standard taper pin.  They have a taper of 1/4" per foot, which would be 0.0260" in 1.250".  You can get them an the hardware store.  You'll find them all over in a machine tool.  They're not really intended shear off, but apparently this one did.



Les Shelley said:


> The oilers on the spindle look to have been packed with white grease. It's old and dried so I dug out what I could and added motor oil to cut it a bit. The bearings all run quiet but it wants to heat up. After 30 or so minutes of running at 940 rpms it's warmer to the touch than I like. Enough to leak from the back seal. The drippings then solidified to the consistency of a cold stick of butter. Your thoughts?
> 
> Thanks for your help and I'll check back in a few days
> 
> Les


Older No. 12s used grease in the front and rear spindle bearings, with a separate oil reservoir for the ring and pinion gears in the middle.  Newer machines still use grease for the front bearing and oil for the rear.  AFIK, none of them use oil in the front bearing.  Post a photo of your cutter-head and the right side of your ram gearbox so that I can see what you have.  In the mean time, don't use the machine.  You will probably need to take the front and rear end-covers off of the cutter-head and clean out the old grease and the oil, then regrease.  (Don't take the spindle apart or remove the rings/nuts that control bearing pre-load.)

_Cal_


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## Les Shelley (Sep 20, 2014)

Thanks Cal
 I'll shoot a couple of pics in the AM and see if I'm smart enough to post them. Probably though I'll get help from my son on Monday!!! LOL

Thanks again,

 Les


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## Les Shelley (Sep 20, 2014)

I looked back at my notes and the math was .026. I just figured .025 made more sense. Anyway it drove in nice and tight and I believe it's fine.
Thanks for all your help.

Les


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## Les Shelley (Sep 22, 2014)

Hello Cal, here are the pics you asked for.


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## Cal Haines (Sep 23, 2014)

Les Shelley said:


> Hello Cal, here are the pics you asked for.


Hi Les,

You have an older machine with the ball-bearing gearbox.  You cutter-head is the type that uses grease to lubricate both the front and rear spindle bearings.

I see that you have a Universal Subhead installed. Those are handy for weird compound angle setups and can be used for horizontal boring using the Y-axis power feed.  But for general use, you will get better rigidity if you use your tooling directly in the cutter-head.

You need to take the subhead off, remove the plate on either end of the cutter-head, clean out all the old grease and oil, then repack the bearings.  As I said before, don't take the spindle apart or do anything that will change the bearing pre-load.  Use kerosene or mineral spirits to flush out the old grease.  You should probably check again after 10 or 12 hours of use, adding a little more grease if necessary.  Don't overpack:  the bearings themselves should be about 50% full.  If you pack them full, then roll the spindle around and let the excess squeeze out you should be OK.  If you pack the bearing and the cavity completely full, the grease can't circulate and the bearing may overheat.

I use Mobilith SHC 100 grease.  It's a full synthetic grease designed for electric motors, but  will work great here since it's a high RPM, high temperature grease.

The large caps on the grease fitting are designed to be turned in a little at a time to force more grease into the bearing.  I wouldn't bother with them: with a synthetic grease like SHC 100, you can probably leave the bearings alone once properly packed.  Check them once a year when you change the oil on the cutter-head.

BTW, I misspoke before: all of the machines used grease in the rear bearing; the front bearing on newer heads is lubricated by the oil in the main sump.  I had it backwards.

_Cal_


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## Les Shelley (Sep 24, 2014)

Thanks Cal, I ordered the grease and should get it in today. Might get a chance to work on it this weekend.

 Thanks again

Les


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## Les Shelley (Oct 20, 2014)

I finally got a little time this weekend to get back on the machine. i removed the subhead and the tapered shaft in the spindle. The parts diagram that I have doesn't match the machine I have as far as the "collar" on the back side of the cutter head. I was about to remove it with a couple of spanner wrenches, and then wondered if this could be loading the rear bearing. Your thoughts?


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## Les Shelley (Oct 27, 2014)

Hello Cal,
 Pulled the rear bearing cleaned and repacked and reassembled. The grease was about the consistency of modeling clay. I pulled the front cover off and can't tell how to unload that bearing. Or does the cover hold it in place while the rear spanner nut loads both bearings? If that's the case removing the set screw shown at the top should let me get that"collar" off and reveal the bearing. Am I on the right track?

Thanks in advance,
Les

Rear bearing dated 10/6/1942- Bearing and race both looked perfect


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## Cal Haines (Oct 30, 2014)

Les Shelley said:


> Hello Cal,
> Pulled the rear bearing cleaned and repacked and reassembled. The grease was about the consistency of modeling clay. I pulled the front cover off and can't tell how to unload that bearing. Or does the cover hold it in place while the rear spanner nut loads both bearings? If that's the case removing the set screw shown at the top should let me get that"collar" off and reveal the bearing. Am I on the right track?
> ...


Hi Les,

Here's a drawing of your cutter-head:



The "collar" is 12-754.  It and the end cap form a labyrinth seal that was used in lieu of an oil seal.  It allows excess grease to escape through the labyrinth.  These heads had a reputation for spitting like an angry camel, due mostly to over greasing.

If you don't have the manual with that drawing in it, send me an e-mail and I'll send you a copy.

You should be able to loosen the setscrew and remove 12-754.  This will give you access to the bearing.  You can flush out the old grease and repack without taking the spindle apart.  The only way to get the bearing out of there for thorough cleaning is to disassemble the spindle, which I DO NOT recommend.

Since you had to remove the threaded collars on the back (J-220) to get to the rear bearing, you will have to adjust the pre-load on the bearings:  Set the head horizontal.  Protect the end of the spindle with block of wood and use a dead blow hammer to tap the spindle to the rear, loading the front bearing.  Set an indicator against the face of the spindle and set it to zero.  Lift the indicator off of the spindle and tap on the back of the spindle to load the rear bearing.  Note the difference in indicator readings.  Repeat your readings a few times to make sure that you're getting the same reading each time.  You should see between 0.0005 and 0.0008" difference in readings. Adjust the backlash by tightening or loosening the inner threaded collar, then hold it with a spanner and tighten the outer collar to lock it in place.  Recheck the backlash after you finish tightening the collars.

Did you take any photos of the rear bearing?

What's the serial number of your machine?  (You can find it stamped on the top of the vertical dovetail way for the knee.)

_Cal_


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## Les Shelley (Oct 30, 2014)

Thanks again Cal. I'd love to have a copy of your manual if it's not too much trouble. I'm taking a long weekend trip starting today but am excited to get back to it this next week.
I loaded the bearing like I would do a wheel bearing. I'm glad you shared right method.
I'll get the serial # next week 

Les


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## Cal Haines (Oct 30, 2014)

Les Shelley said:


> ...
> I loaded the bearing like I would do a wheel bearing. ...



A lower precision version of the bearing is actually used in some truck axles.

How did you get the cone (the inner race and rollers) off of the spindle for packing?

_Cal_


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## Les Shelley (Oct 31, 2014)

Cal,Once I got most of the old grease washed away it slid off with no problem.I soaked it for about an hour in some hot parts cleaner then let it rinse for 15 minutes or so in my parts washer. I rolled each individual roller and inspected through a loop. Not a mark on the bearing rollers anywhere. Rinsed out the race and while not able to look at it with the loop it looks perfect as well. Packed the bearing cage in my palm with the grease you recommended till it squeezed out the top ,rolled it through a couple times and wiped off the excess.


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## Cal Haines (Oct 31, 2014)

I'm surprised that the cone would just slide off.  I would expect it to be a light press fit.

Note to others:  Most models of the VN12 cutter-head don't require that the threaded rings that preloads the spindle bearings be removed to service the back bearing.  But in Les's case, he had to remove them to get the rear plate off.  You can usually flush the old grease out with kerosene and re-grease using the head's grease fitting to load in new grease.

_Cal_


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## Les Shelley (Nov 3, 2014)

Cal,
 The serial # is 820. The front bearing was clean with very little grease. After greasing buttoned everything up and checked the end play. Looks to be about .0003-.0006. My indicator is .001
so I'll check with a better one and then report.

Les


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## Cal Haines (Nov 3, 2014)

Hi Les,

The serial number should be 4 digits long, often prefixed by "12-".  Based on your cutter-head, I would expect the first digit to be either a 5 or a 6.  It's easy for digits to get lost in decades-old grease and grime.  You can also look on the front face of the knee, to the left of the Y-axis hand-wheel dial:




_Cal_


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## Les Shelley (Nov 4, 2014)

Cal,
6582 is the number on the front of the knee. On top of the right vertical way is stamped 320 not 820. Loaded the bearing last night and let it run at 940 for about 35 minutes and only warm to the touch. I think it's good.

Les


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## Cal Haines (Nov 4, 2014)

Les Shelley said:


> Cal,
> 6582 is the number on the front of the knee. On top of the right vertical way is stamped 320 not 820. Loaded the bearing last night and let it run at 940 for about 35 minutes and only warm to the touch. I think it's good.
> 
> Les



Hi Les,

Your cutter-head had a reputation for running pretty warm.  I have a letter from an engineer at Van Norman about it.  However, that was using a very primitive grease, compared to the synthetic grease that you're using.

Re: your serial number:  I assume that you're looking here for the master serial number:



You can also try cranking the ram to the rear and looking in the front of the ram ways, at the top of the column:


Here you're looking down the bare column (no ram, knee or base).  I've marked both locations where the column serial number may be found.

All of the major castings should have the serial number stamped on them somewhere (although I haven't been able to find the serial number on the ram on #7689).  The saddle should have it stamped on the bottom, next to the Y-axis gib:


Here you are looking straight up at the left side of the knee and the bottom of the left end of the saddle.  The Y gib has been removed in the photo; all of the large gibs should also have the serial number stamped on them, but the number can't be seen without removing the gib.  The protrusion in the lower-right corner of the picture is the boss for the knee elevating crank.  The back-lash adjustment nut and lock-ring can be seen through the rectangular hole in the bottom of the saddle.

_Cal_


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## markknx (Nov 4, 2014)

Ohh man thats bad! hope it is all working out.


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## Les Shelley (Nov 5, 2014)

Cal,
12-6582 on the front of the vertical ways. Next I'll go about proving the horizontal and vertical stops. Then I get to start on the 15 things running around in my head!!! LOL
Thank you very much for taking the time to help and lend your expertise. Got lots to learn and I'm ready to go at it.

Les Shelley


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