# Urgent Assistance Needed - PM-727M



## lpeedin (Feb 27, 2017)

Something happened in my gear box today that didn't sound good at all.  

The machine locked up tight and blew the fuse before I could get to the OFF switch.

1) I've drained the oil and did not find any metal shaving or chips that might indicate a stripped gear.
2) To get to the back 2 of the 6 bolts holding the gear case cover on, the motor will have to be removed.
3) I have disconnected the motor wiring (took a pix first).
4) I have tilted the entire head assembly 90 degrees to the right so I could get a better hold on the motor.
5) Hex head screws that mount the motor down have been removed.
6) Removed the draw bar bearing retention ring as it looked like it might interfere with the motor mounting flange

Motor pulled loose approximated .020", but I can not get it to move any more.  Motor will rotate freely until its mounting flange bumps the housing for the drawbar bearings.

Is the motor going to have to be disassembled before it can be removed?

I'd really like to get the gear case open before giving Matt a call.


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## Sourdoh (Feb 27, 2017)

I have a 727 but can't answer your question. I'd ask Matt your question. 


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## lpeedin (Feb 27, 2017)

I have no problem calling Matt, except for the fact that I am inside a metal building with no cell signal.  I'd have to go outside to make the call and would not be able to be at the machine while we are talking.

Was hoping someone else may have experienced this and would share.


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## tweinke (Feb 27, 2017)

I had to replace the motor on my PM-727 this fall due melted wiring, due to loose screws. After I took the four screws out of the motor plate it lifted straight off. There is a key that is on the motor shaft that is loose. I also remember that I had to lift the motor up very straight or it would bind. Hope this helps.


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## lpeedin (Feb 27, 2017)

tweinke said:


> I had to replace the motor on my PM-727 this fall due melted wiring, due to loose screws. After I took the four screws out of the motor plate it lifted straight off. There is a key that is on the motor shaft that is loose. I also remember that I had to lift the motor up very straight or it would bind. Hope this helps.



Thanks for the reply.  I just talked with Greg at Matt's place and he said basically the same thing; however, mine simply will not lift off.  Guess it's time to go with the wedges and force it which is basically what Greg agreed I'd have to do.  :-(


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## tweinke (Feb 27, 2017)

I do remember watching a video on YouTube where a guy was doing a CNC conversion and he had to pry it up. like I said earlier mine lifted off fairly easy. The motor shaft did look a bit rusty though, could that be an issue?


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## lpeedin (Feb 27, 2017)

Well, I see why mine didn't just lift right off.  Either it was covered in Lock-Tite or dipped in salt water before assembly.  At least it is off now and hopefully not damaged internally.

Guess I'll see what's in the gear box now.


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## DrAsus (Feb 27, 2017)

Mr Peedin ...I can't help but I look forward to your videos on what went wrong and how to fix it. 

DrAsus

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## tweinke (Feb 27, 2017)

It will be interesting to see what happened, not that I wish trouble on anyone. I'm sure Matt will take care of you.


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## tweinke (Feb 27, 2017)

Stupid question does the motor turn? How about the head, can you change gears or rotate it? Another silly thought did the setscrew for the collets back out and wedge the spindle?


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## woodchucker (Feb 27, 2017)

That rust does not look good at all. There should be no rust on anything inside the housing.  Anything should have had oil wiped on before assembly.
So you will probably re-assemble it better than they did in China..

Hope it's not too much... I fear something came loose and ****fted.


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## lpeedin (Feb 27, 2017)

tweinke said:


> Stupid question does the motor turn? How about the head, can you change gears or rotate it? Another silly thought did the setscrew for the collets back out and wedge the spindle?



Yes, motor turned fine & H/L and 1,23 seemed to work & engage. 


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## lpeedin (Feb 27, 2017)

woochucker said:


> That rust does not look good at all. There should be no rust on anything inside the housing.  Anything should have had oil wiped on before assembly.
> So you will probably re-assemble it better than they did in China..
> 
> Hope it's not too much... I fear something came loose and ****fted.



Thankfully, the hole the motor shaft fits into is not opened to the inside of the gear box. Can't imagine why it was so rusted though. This lathe is only about a year old. 


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## lpeedin (Feb 27, 2017)

Didn't find anything catastrophic in the gear box, so I'm kinda at a loss as to what happened. Only thing I can imagine now is the either the 1,2,3 or the H/L knob jumped out of position. On the edge of some of the gear teeth there is some wear, but I really don't think it's bad enough to warrant changing. I'm going to put it back together and see what the result is. It'll be 3 days before I can get back to the shop though, but I will follow up on the out come. 







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## RIMSPOKE (Feb 27, 2017)

Something happened in my gear box today that didn't sound good at all. 
The machine locked up tight and blew the fuse before I could get to the OFF switch. 

HOW FAST WERE YOU RUNNING IT ? 

I WAS RUNNING MINE WIDE OPEN MAKING WOOD BLOCKS FOR MY TOOLING 
AND I HAD SOME STRANGE GOINGS ON WHERE IT WAS STRAINING THE MOTOR . 

THE SPINDLE WAS GETTING HARD TO TURN LIKE THE BEARINGS WERE LOCKING UP . 
I STOPPED RUNNING IT AS SOON AS I KNEW THERE WAS A PROBLEM AND LET 
IT COOL OFF UNTIL THE NEXT DAY . 

IT FREED UP BUT IT WAS CLEAR THERE WAS A PROBLEM RUNNING IT AT HIGH SPEED 
FOR EXTENDED PERIODS .


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## lpeedin (Feb 28, 2017)

Lee, when I replaced the motor bearings on my 727, the output shaft was rusted just like yours.  I remember thinking it was odd that there would be rust just down in that hole.  Thank goodness that hole is sealed of where that rust can't get into the gear box.  I cleaned it off with scotch brite and then actually coated it with grease before I reinstalled the motor.  My guess is that there is a bearing somewhere that is starting to fail and it is seizing after it heats up.  This may be a good time to remove the spindle and re-pack the bearings.  I know Matt has told me that he recommends the Kluber spindle grease.  It isn't cheap, but it is supposed to be really good.


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## lpeedin (Feb 28, 2017)

3dshooter80 said:


> Lee, when I replaced the motor bearings on my 727, the output shaft was rusted just like yours.  I remember thinking it was odd that there would be rust just down in that hole.  Thank goodness that hole is sealed of where that rust can't get into the gear box.  I cleaned it off with scotch brite and then actually coated it with grease before I reinstalled the motor.  My guess is that there is a bearing somewhere that is starting to fail and it is seizing after it heats up.  This may be a good time to remove the spindle and re-pack the bearings.  I know Matt has told me that he recommends the Kluber spindle grease.  It isn't cheap, but it is supposed to be really good.



Thanks for the feedback Chad, but all the bearings appear to be sealed. Was Matt recommending that the rubber seal be removed?


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## lpeedin (Feb 28, 2017)

The spindle bearings are supposed to be high precision tapered roller bearings.  They will be located inside of the quill.  I do remember Matt saying that the ball bearings inside the head were supposed to be open and splash lubricated by the oil in the head.


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## tweinke (Feb 28, 2017)

Per page 16 of the manual the spindle bearings are sealed and require no attention ( the PDF manual from the QMT webpage)


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## lpeedin (Feb 28, 2017)

That's odd.  The parts schematic shows a 30205 and 30207 tapered roller bearing in the quill.  Those are not made as a sealed bearing to my knowledge.


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## lpeedin (Feb 28, 2017)

Chad, there's a manual on line that according to Greg at Matt's is "better than the one that came with the lathe". I haven't had a chance to look a the bearings on the parts list in this "new" manual, but I know that all the bearings I've seen with the gear box open are sealed. 


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## tweinke (Feb 28, 2017)

I was hoping that someone else would see that too. I've never come across a sealed tapered roller bearing either. Still a question for Matt and the gang, might be wrong parts listed? The Grizzly mill that is similar lists the same bearing numbers also.


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## tweinke (Feb 28, 2017)

Oh by the way the manual on line is way nicer then what came with my mill.


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## lpeedin (Mar 1, 2017)

I was looking at the online manual.  That is why I'm confused.  It says exactly what was referenced and then shows tapered roller bearings on the parts schematic in addition to a couple of sealed bearings that are inside of the mill head.  I think Lee is correct in that all of the bearings "inside" of the mill head are sealed.  The tapered roller bearings are supposed to be up inside the quill.


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## tweinke (Mar 7, 2017)

Lee any progress on the issue yet?


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## ewkearns (Mar 8, 2017)

All of that rust looking stuff screams fretting corrosion. Look for misalignment.....


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## lpeedin (Mar 8, 2017)

I've got everything back together and it seems to be working fine now.  I didn't find anything internal that was an apparent issue; however, upon reassembly the 1,2,3 knob has a bit more travel and seems to "seat" better than it did from the factory.  The gear box is not making the same sound (good or bad) that it originally did either. I'm pretty much convinced now that the lock ups came from the 1,2,3 change gears not properly messing.  I cleaned the motor shaft and the receiver socket it fits in very good and coated with a generous amount of lithium grease before reassembly.


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## tweinke (Mar 8, 2017)

Good to hear! Wouldn't want machine issues slowing down your projects and videos!


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## DrAsus (Mar 8, 2017)

Glad you got it fixed!! Thumbs up

DrAsus

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