# I got flashed tonight.



## DavidR8 (Oct 13, 2020)

Not that way!

I was practicing TIG tonight and got flashed bad. 
Working on just running straight beads, no filler on 1/4” mild steel. Completely clean. First couple went fine then suddenly blam, absolute brilliant flash partway through the next bead. I didn’t dip the tungsten. 
Primeweld 225
130 amps
#8 cup
Stubby kit with gas lens
18 cfm
2% lanthanated 

Completely overwhelmed my Esab Savage set at 11. Now there’s a big spot in my vision.

Any idea what might have caused the flash?

Edit: I think that the sensitivity was set too low. 

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## Aukai (Oct 14, 2020)

Make sure you did not block a sensor some how, there are usually more than one though. Is there a way to check the battery, I know it's new and all but how long was it on a shelf?


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## DavidR8 (Oct 14, 2020)

Aukai said:


> Make sure you did not block a sensor some how, there are usually more than one though. Is there a way to check the battery, I know it's new and all but how long was it on a shelf?



There is a low battery light and it’s off so presumably the battery is ok. 
I’m going to leave it in the bright sun tomorrow to make sure it’s fully charged. 


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## Ulma Doctor (Oct 14, 2020)

i never got flashed by a gold lens. 
i always felt weird using auto darks, i felt like i got flashed every time i stuck an arc
i really don't trust the technology, even folks swear by them


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## DavidR8 (Oct 14, 2020)

Ulma Doctor said:


> i never got flashed by a gold lens.
> i always felt weird using auto darks, i felt like i got flashed every time i stuck an arc
> i really don't trust the technology, even folks swear by them



I used a non-AD for a bit when I was first learning. I found that with a bright work light I could see the work before I struck an arc which was what I needed to be able to start. 
Then I won an Esab AD helmet in a golf tournament and I’ve just replaced it with a new one. 
My issue with my old helmet was the lack of clarity. It was like looking through a green filter and I could not see what was going on. 
The clarity of this new Esab is amazing but I am curious about a really good quality fixed shade lens. 


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## Lo-Fi (Oct 14, 2020)

You just got a bright spot - not the same as actual "arc eye" flash. This is because an auto dark lense blocks 100% UV and IR regardless of whether it's triggered or not. Intense visible light is not great for your eyes, but not damaging like getting blasted with full IR and UV which actually gives you burns.

Had it myself, went to get my eyes checked out. The opthalmologist told me all about it and confirmed I'd done nothing bad to my eyes. Can't tell you how relieved I was!


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## Lo-Fi (Oct 14, 2020)

Just to add an actual demonstration:






I'd argue that the auto dark hood is actually safer. A decent hood you can see through well when it's not triggered, so you're more likely to leave down rather than pop up because you can't see anything through the fixed lense.

Also, don't forget to wear some decent safety specs under any hood. The lenses, believe it or not, also block a significant proportion of IR and UV so add _some_ protection if you have an oops moment with the hood up. Glasses too if you wear them, of course.


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## Cooter Brown (Oct 14, 2020)

Try TIG welding in a white short sleeve shirt.....



lol Don't do this you will blind yourself and get the fastest and worst sunburn of your life.....


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## NortonDommi (Oct 14, 2020)

Ulma Doctor said:


> i never got flashed by a gold lens.
> i always felt weird using auto darks, i felt like i got flashed every time i stuck an arc
> i really don't trust the technology, even folks swear by them


I was leery of them for years but finally gave in and bought one after using friends el cheapo. I got a better one.  I truly wish I had made the move years ago.  Adjustable trigger setting, trigger time, shade, four sensors, large view and 'true colour'.  Add to this that it has a super light weight shell and has one of the best head straps I have worn. Absolutely love it and my welds are nearly as good as they used to be because I can see what I am doing. Welder nod buggered my neck and now I don't have to worry.


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## NC Rick (Oct 14, 2020)

@DavidR8 , I hope your spot goes away right quick.  That would freak me out.  I thought that a dead battery would default to a dark shield?  Sometimes I will see a little flash as amps taper way down at the end of a bead because the light output is so little.  Never in a way that is uncomfortable.  As stated, I think the UV and IR rejection is intact.  you should call the manufacturer of the helmet to try to understand what happened and how to make it not happen again. I'm sorry to hear that happened.


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## Liljoebrshooter (Oct 14, 2020)

I would guess you had your hands between the sensor and the weld.  I have seen it many times at work.  Usually by people with terrible eyesight that get really close.

Joe


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## graham-xrf (Oct 14, 2020)

NortonDommi said:


> I was leery of them for years but finally gave in and bought one after using friends el cheapo. I got a better one.  I truly wish I had made the move years ago.  Adjustable trigger setting, trigger time, shade, four sensors, large view and 'true colour'.  Add to this that it has a super light weight shell and has one of the best head straps I have worn. Absolutely love it and my welds are nearly as good as they used to be because I can see what I am doing. Welder nod buggered my neck and now I don't have to worry.


Do tell which one you got when you finally gave in?


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## tq60 (Oct 14, 2020)

Learn to blink when you pull the trigger.. 

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## markba633csi (Oct 14, 2020)

Your eyes should be fine- many folks don't realize the UV protection is built-in and does not rely on the batteries or darkening action
No manufacturer would sell a product that caused eye damage if a battery goes dead
-Mark


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## MrWhoopee (Oct 14, 2020)

Lo-Fi said:


> This is because an auto dark lense blocks 100% UV and IR regardless of whether it's triggered or not. Intense visible light is not great for your eyes, but not damaging like getting blasted with full IR and UV which actually gives you burns.



This is something that I only recently discovered. Makes me feel much better about auto-darkening hoods. I bought an extremely cheap economical auto hood off Amazon (less than $30) when I got my stick welder. I expected to replace it when I got my AHP Alpha-TIG, but found I didn't need to. Still running on the original battery. I've been very happy with it, never been flashed, even at 150+ amps on aluminum. My only complaint is that I had to customize it for a 2x cheater. I still nod my head when I step on the pedal.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 14, 2020)

Thanks gents, this is all very reassuring, particularly the UV and IR blocking no matter what.
Last night I went through the manual and reset the controls. 
I'm letting it sit in the sun today and will give it another go tonight.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 14, 2020)

NC Rick said:


> @DavidR8 , I hope your spot goes away right quick.  That would freak me out.  I thought that a dead battery would default to a dark shield?  Sometimes I will see a little flash as amps taper way down at the end of a bead because the light output is so little.  Never in a way that is uncomfortable.  As stated, I think the UV and IR rejection is intact.  you should call the manufacturer of the helmet to try to understand what happened and how to make it not happen again. I'm sorry to hear that happened.


Thanks Rick, all is well this morning. It definitely freaked me out. 
That said it did give me a chance to explain how an AD helmet works to my 12 yr old step-son. Now he wants to learn to weld


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## coherent (Oct 14, 2020)

I had a couple ok helmets I used a lot for mig and never had any issues, but when I started tig welding, especially thin material with low amps I got an occasional flash. I decided to invest in a better helmet and bought a Lincoln 3350 series. Never had another issue. Really like the helmet... big clear glass and great color. It's hard to put a $ value on your eye heath and safety. Don't know what you're using now but a good helmet is a good investment and worth every penny.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 14, 2020)

coherent said:


> I had a couple ok helmets I used a lot for mig and never had any issues, but when I started tig welding, especially thin material with low amps I got an occasional flash. I decided to invest in a better helmet and bought a Lincoln 3350 series. Never had another issue. Really like the helmet and it's hard to put $ value on you eye heath and safety. Don't know what you're using now but a good helmet is a good investment and worth every penny.


Thanks, it's a new Esab A40 Savage. I think the problem is that I had the sensitivity down too low and I may have been inadvertently blocking one (or more) of the four sensors.


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## kb58 (Oct 14, 2020)

You guys are an expensive date... After reading this, I remembered looking at several new welding helmets and reading some very good comments about the newer models (mine's a 25-yr old Miller that works but is getting on in years). Yes, there are a whole lot of probably pretty good ones now for less than $100, but one thing led to another and well, more than that was spent on what I hope is the last helmet I'll need!


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## Aukai (Oct 14, 2020)

Hope that was it David, all the things your mom told you that would make you go blind, and arc flashes are not going to help us when we get older


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## DavidR8 (Oct 14, 2020)

kb58 said:


> You guys are an expensive date... After reading this, I remembered looking at several new welding helmets and reading some very good comments about the newer models (mine's a 25-yr old Miller that works but is getting on in years). Yes, there are a whole lot of probably pretty good ones now for less than $100, but one thing led to another and well, more than that was spent on what I hope is the last helmet I'll need!


I tell you...it's a plot!


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## Janderso (Oct 14, 2020)

David,
I'm glad you said something, I couldn't figure out what happened. Suddenly the Tig arc was way too bright.
I saw AVE's video when it came out. I too felt much better after that.
The spot went away.
Guys, buy a quality helmet. Your eyes are worth it.


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## DAT510 (Oct 14, 2020)

David, 
Glad your eyes are ok.  

Have you thought about calling ESAB? Most reputable companies want to know when their safety equipment may not have operated as expected.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 14, 2020)

DAT510 said:


> David,
> Glad your eyes are ok.
> 
> Have you thought about calling ESAB? Most reputable companies want to know when their safety equipment may not have operated as expected.


Thanks, I was a bit worried. The spot went away after about an hour or so.
I haven't called Esab but that's a good idea. The fact that it worked fine for three of four beads is perplexing.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 14, 2020)

Janderso said:


> David,
> I'm glad you said something, I couldn't figure out what happened. Suddenly the Tig arc was way too bright.
> I saw AVE's video when it came out. I too felt much better after that.
> The spot went away.
> Guys, buy a quality helmet. Your eyes are worth it.


I was very worried about possible damage to my eyes. I'm glad that there's UV and IR protection no matter what.


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## NC Rick (Oct 14, 2020)

coherent said:


> I had a couple ok helmets I used a lot for mig and never had any issues, but when I started tig welding, especially thin material with low amps I got an occasional flash. I decided to invest in a better helmet and bought a Lincoln 3350 series. Never had another issue. Really like the helmet... big clear glass and great color. It's hard to put a $ value on your eye heath and safety. Don't know what you're using now but a good helmet is a good investment and worth every penny.


I purchased the same helmet.  It is the only one I have owned so I can't say.  It works well for me.  I did "research" on google and chose it.  I may check the battery, it's been a couple years...


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## NC Rick (Oct 14, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Not that way!
> 
> I was practicing TIG tonight and got flashed bad.
> Working on just running straight beads, no filler on 1/4” mild steel. Completely clean. First couple went fine then suddenly blam, absolute brilliant flash partway through the next bead. I didn’t dip the tungsten.
> ...


I don't know if this is worth anything but I know many helmets like the one I have use multiple sensors in different locations to avoid shadowing.  Do you think it's possible you somehow shadowed your sensor?  I know I get my face in close and at weird angles to hope to see what's going on through my 3.0 readers. If your hand blocked the sensor its possible that the visor went "clear" on you?  It would be good to know.  I know several guys using harbor fright helmets with out trouble (reported to me anyhow).


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## DAT510 (Oct 14, 2020)

I believe the A40 has 4 sensors?  Could it be possible one or more of the sensors is bad?  That could mean shading one of the other "working" sensors caused it to un-darken?


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## DavidR8 (Oct 14, 2020)

NC Rick said:


> I don't know if this is worth anything but I know many helmets like the one I have use multiple sensors in different locations to avoid shadowing.  Do you think it's possible you somehow shadowed your sensor?  I know I get my face in close and at weird angles to hope to see what's going on through my 3.0 readers. If your hand blocked the sensor its possible that the visor went "clear" on you?  It would be good to know.  I know several guys using harbor fright helmets with out trouble (reported to me anyhow).


That's absolutely possible though there are four sensors as @DAT510 noted.
I just tried looking at the sun with it on max sensitivity and it wouldn't darken so I think something is definitely wrong with it.


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## pontiac428 (Oct 14, 2020)

The human visual aversion response takes about 0.25 seconds from flash to eyes shut.  Filtering the UV, there's not much damage to be done.  Had you really gotten a flash, your eyes would have swollen towards shut and you'd be on the couch with a cold washcloth over your face...


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## Aukai (Oct 14, 2020)

I remember something about potatoes, when I got flash burnt once it was hell, but I got some kind of numbing gel/cream.
Did you try the sensitivity in both directions?  I use a bright flashlight and mine darkens if it hits a sensor. The Miller helmet has a test button, my e64 does not.


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## kb58 (Oct 14, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I was very worried about possible damage to my eyes. I'm glad that there's UV and IR protection no matter what.


Just for general information, just about all plastics (maybe even all) absorb UV. Same goes for all glass except quartz.


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## Ken from ontario (Oct 14, 2020)

I got flashed a few times in my life and the only remedy for my eyes was to brew 2 tea bags of Chamomile tea, then fill an eye bath cup with that tea(after it cooled down of course) and bathe my eyes with it 2-3 times a day. it soothes your eyes better than any eye cream or eye drop .


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## Tinkershed (Oct 17, 2020)

I'll bet that the helmet hasn't been in the sun in quite a while.  What probably happened is that the helmet battery had a marginal charge and after you used it to run several beads its charge was down to "borderline".  I'll bet that giving it a day outside will solve the problem.   The AD tech is really pretty good even on less expensive helmets.   None of the companies that make or import gear want to lose customers by making unsafe gear.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 17, 2020)

Tinkershed said:


> I'll bet that the helmet hasn't been in the sun in quite a while.  What probably happened is that the helmet battery had a marginal charge and after you used it to run several beads its charge was down to "borderline".  I'll bet that giving it a day outside will solve the problem.   The AD tech is really pretty good even on less expensive helmets.   None of the companies that make or import gear want to lose customers by making unsafe hear.


In fact I did leave it in the sun all day yesterday. Last night it worked great, likewise tonight.


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## Tinkershed (Oct 17, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> In fact I did leave it in the sun all day yesterday. Last night it worked great, likewise tonight.


Excellent!   When I had a welding lesson with a friend who drives a big Miller setup he was using a helmet he got with his welder.  I was using one I bought from HF when I bought my welder.   He showed me how to put the helmet outside while setting up the project.  It turned out that my cheap helmet was identical to the last detail with his.   I expect one factory in China turns them out by the shipload.   Glad it worked out for you.


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## rwm (Oct 17, 2020)

Obviously you need the Optrel Crystal Helmet!
Robert


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## John O (Oct 17, 2020)

Do the helmets need sun for charging or will the light from welding charge them?


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## brino (Oct 17, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> In fact I did leave it in the sun all day yesterday. Last night it worked great, likewise tonight.



David, Does this mean that your welding practice is at the whim of the weather in Victoria B.C.?

-brino


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## Ken from ontario (Oct 17, 2020)

As far as I know the sensitivity adjustment on the HF / PA helmets works best at its highest setting, and leaving it in the sun once should be alright for quite a while,.
I have had two HF type , accouple of lower end Lincoln helmets and they all performed equally well, the Lincoln did benefit being in the sun for a couple of hours but once only and it was fine for the next2-3 years but I was using it 2-3 times a week though.
If there's an issue other than setting to the correct sensitivity, then its time to return the helmet. I would also check if there's a new battery in it .

Where I worked my last job the company offered to buy Speedglas hoods for us and take off $50 per paycheck until it was paid in full.I got one and wow, it was(and still is) a pleasure to use, light weight, comfortable, responsive to each level of sensitivity, and very expensive but to this day it has been my "go to" helmet .


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## Boswell (Oct 17, 2020)

John O said:


> Do the helmets need sun for charging or will the light from welding charge them?


I did not see anything in any instructions about needing sunlight for my helmet to work. I have to believe that a few seconds of ARC is equivalent to hours of sunlight but that is just a guess.   David's issue may still be battery or power related but I think more likely it was 
1. Settings (sensitivity)
2. Defective in some way
3. Blocked Sensors or combination of partially blocked sensors and sensitivity settings 

Hopefully David will never get another opportunity to troubleshoot this problem.


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## Tinkershed (Oct 17, 2020)

It is interesting that David's problem cropped up when he had been welding for a while and disappeared after the helmet was outside for a day.  My experienced friend with the same helmet makes a practice of setting his outside prior to a session.  I am a complete newbie and am a very occasional user so I can't say one way or the other,  just reporting what my friend does.

One of the really high end helmets would be great but I could never justify its cost as little as I use one. I expect I will follow my friends practice of sitting it outside.  Constant sunlight for a while would likely impart more of a charge than the relatively short duration flash while welding.  Also remember that the electronics are activated and drawing battery power while in use.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 17, 2020)

Boswell said:


> I did not see anything in any instructions about needing sunlight for my helmet to work. I have to believe that a few seconds of ARC is equivalent to hours of sunlight but that is just a guess.   David's issue may still be battery or power related but I think more likely it was
> 1. Settings (sensitivity)
> 2. Defective in some way
> 3. Blocked Sensors or combination of partially blocked sensors and sensitivity settings
> ...


I believe it was a setting issue possibly combined with a low battery. It is a brand new helmet and I have no idea if they get any pre-charge before being boxed up.
Last night I was practicing some 65 A pulsing and I noticed that even on maximum sensitivity it will go clear on the downslope of the pulse.


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## addertooth (Oct 17, 2020)

Looking at the Sun is not a functional test for some autodarkening hoods.  Many don't trigger on ABSOLUTE light level, otherwise you would have trouble starting a bead while standing in full sunlight.  Instead, the sensors look for a sharp and sudden change in brightness (like an Arc starting).   Many of them will only go dark for a split second, when you have them pointed completely away from the Sun, and suddenly point it at the Sun (such as many Hobart AD hoods).  Your "delay control" sets how long it stays dark after the sudden change in brightness has happened.  This setting allows for you to have brief interruptions in your weld without the hood going to un-darkened.


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## keeena (Aug 20, 2021)

Lo-Fi said:


> You just got a bright spot - not the same as actual "arc eye" flash. This is because an auto dark lense blocks 100% UV and IR regardless of whether it's triggered or not. Intense visible light is not great for your eyes, but not damaging like getting blasted with full IR and UV which actually gives you burns.


Thanks for posting this. I just got a good scare tonight: my Lincoln Viking 3350 started to occasionally shut off a second after striking an arc. After the 3rd time I figured it wasn't a fluke.   I was worried I'd get the dreaded arc eye.

Kinda annoyed; its only about 3 months old and I'd guess less than 2 hours of total arc time. Reproduces on the bench out of the helmet:


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## Aukai (Aug 20, 2021)

Did you change the battery, one of my helmets did that, it may have been on the shelf awhile before it sold.


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## Lo-Fi (Aug 21, 2021)

Yep, set of batteries. Tip from many owners (myself included - I have the exact same hood) is to store it out of the bag so it's solar powered rather than draining the batteries. I've had mine over 2 years and been solid as a rock. 

Worth knowing that any decent safety glasses will ward off the worst of arc eye, also blocking UV and IR should you be unlucky enough to get flashed with hood up. Not something to rely on entirely, but a nice bit of extra protection.


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## Aaron_W (Aug 21, 2021)

Aukai said:


> Did you change the battery, one of my helmets did that, it may have been on the shelf awhile before it sold.



 I recently got a Lincoln 3350, and the battery it came with was completely dead so definitely worth checking that you have a good battery before striking an arc.


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## keeena (Aug 21, 2021)

Aukai said:


> Did you change the battery, one of my helmets did that, it may have been on the shelf awhile before it sold.


Yep, one of the first things I tried. The first battery did test OK (3.01v), new was 3.20v. Even with the old battery and no light supply (arc), I can hold the test button for a long time and it stays dark perfectly fine.

@Lo-Fi - I'm pretty sure the solar power is only to power the lens w/ ambient or arc light, not to charge the battery. I don't think these button cell batteries are rechargeable but there as a backup power supply. But that said: yes, if for some reason the lens is switching on randomly: being out of the bag will usually mean it would be using solar vs the battery.


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## stupoty (Aug 21, 2021)

keeena said:


> Thanks for posting this. I just got a good scare tonight: my Lincoln Viking 3350 started to occasionally shut off a second after striking an arc. After the 3rd time I figured it wasn't a fluke.   I was worried I'd get the dreaded arc eye.
> 
> Kinda annoyed; its only about 3 months old and I'd guess less than 2 hours of total arc time. Reproduces on the bench out of the helmet:



You should send your video to the manufacturers/sales support email , they might just send you a new insert in the mail.

Stu


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## Weldingrod1 (Aug 21, 2021)

Right! Most plastics are not UV transparent; that's why CO2 lasers cut clear acrylic so nicely ;-)
My blue diode laser wont touch clear at all, but can do black and transparent orange. Transparent orange blocks blue, you see!

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## keeena (Aug 23, 2021)

stupoty said:


> You should send your video to the manufacturers/sales support email , they might just send you a new insert in the mail.
> 
> Stu


Yep, I did send the video to the case manager.

Prior to sending the video they already planned on sending a new lens once they confirmed its under warranty. Pretty good service so far!


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## keeena (Sep 16, 2021)

A quick follow-up on my particular issue: I called to check on status after a week had passed by without any updates/shipping info/etc... I was then told that there was a 2-3 week back-order for the lens. I asked if they had complete helmets in stock which I could buy at a discount in the meantime since this was my only lid. They offered to send me the whole helmet instead of just the lens. Good customer service. Showed up 2-3 days after I called them.

But more importantly: the new lens showed the same behavior with the flashlight test on the bench.  I dug a bit deeper: out of 7 LED flashlights, all caused the lens problem except for one of my MagLights (the lenses worked 100% of the time with this one flashlight). All the flashlights I tested with have COB LEDs so not sure what the difference would be. Anyway: LED flashlights probably aren't a good way to test lenses.

When using the sun (UV/IR) or a TV remote control (IR): the new AND old lens tested perfectly fine. I tried a few arcs with the old lens and the problem didn't reproduce yet. Weird. But I'll run the old lens for a bit to see if the problems I originally experienced was a fluke or not.


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## Weldingrod1 (Sep 16, 2021)

LEDs are not a continous spectrum. Sun and arc are. Lots of peaks add together to get sorta okay-ish. Your eyeballs arent that picky, but the sensor might be narrow band.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Lo-Fi (Sep 16, 2021)

The sensors work by detecting heat, not visible light... Which is why the IR remote works effectively.


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## brino (Sep 16, 2021)

keeena said:


> But more importantly: the new lens showed the same behavior with the flashlight test on the bench.  I dug a bit deeper: out of 7 LED flashlights, all caused the lens problem except for one of my MagLights (the lenses worked 100% of the time with this one flashlight). All the flashlights I tested with have COB LEDs so not sure what the difference would be. Anyway: LED flashlights probably aren't a good way to test lenses.



Another issue here is that some flashlights have smart controllers.
My Mag-Lite XL200 that is always on my belt has a circuit that actually pulses the LED faster than the eye can see.
They use it to get high LED current pulses for high light output while controlling heat, but also to help with battery life.
If I try to use it for additional lighting with cell-phone photos then the photos have light and dark bands thru-out.

-brino


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