# Help Identifying Old Craftsman



## KenBeckett39 (Sep 8, 2016)

Just purchased an old Craftsman lathe not sure of the model number?
I was told it is 9X36?
there is no tag on the end stand (no indication there ever was one there?)
end of the front bed is L6 17993 (assuming serial number?)
I'm searching for a manual, some I have found are somewhat helpful but seem to be later model, there are some differences?

Thanks for any help, tips on where to look are appreciated!

The banjo is different then what is listed in the manuals I have found,
it only has A, B, C positions (I am curious if the later ones would fit? assuming the D position would give more speed options?)
I got to figure how to get A photo posted?
Ken


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## KenBeckett39 (Sep 8, 2016)

Here are the Picts. (I hope)


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## schor (Sep 8, 2016)

Looks like an atlas 10f with babbet bearings. I think there is a parts list on this site.


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## KenBeckett39 (Sep 8, 2016)

schor said:


> Looks like an atlas 10f with babbet bearings. I think there is a parts list on this site.



Thanks,
It has Craftsman badge by the switch, 
10 F looks close except this lathe has no quadrant D?
It has babbitt bearings, there is a little play (Chuck end) gotta look into that,
It does seem to all work well.


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## Randall Marx (Sep 8, 2016)

Close guess, schor, but it is a 12-inch. Similar vintage to mine, having no power crossfeed. Congratulations on the new machine!


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## wa5cab (Sep 8, 2016)

The Atlas 9" and all 10" without QCGB have a FWD-OFF-REV gear box mounted to the top of the bed in front of the headstock.  This lathe has the tumbler style FWD-OFF-REV shifter.  It is an early Craftsman 12" from either the 101.736x or 101.0738x lines.  The photo doesn't show whether or not it has back gears.  If it doesn't, it is one of the 101.0736x series.  If it does (and more than likely it does) it is one of the 101.0738x series.

Assuming that it does have back gears, from the banjo shape alone, it is either 101.08380 or 101.07381.  The ON/OFF switch is mounted in the headstock and it has a cast change gear guard and a crank instead of a knob on the compound feed screw, so it is a 101.07381 (if it lacks back gears, it would be a 101.07361).  I'll go and check as soon as I post this but there should be an early flat-file type parts list in DOWNLOADS.  And with due attention to the fact that the 32T tumbler gear is ID'd as Spindle, and that the banjo (change gear bracket) is a slightly different shape, the Part 7 - Thread Cutting section out of the second edition 1937 MOLO in DOWNLOADS will apply.


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## KenBeckett39 (Sep 8, 2016)

Thank you for the info,
It does have back gears, 
The gears (for thread cutting, carriage feed), I only have what is on the machine, & it moves the carriage way too fast? 
I do have some (were in the basement of the house when we bought it) seem to be the same pitch, they are numbered, but they seem to be cast iron? 
But more realistically need to shop for some, 
The info will help, I really appreciate it.


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## schor (Sep 8, 2016)

KenBeckett39 said:


> Thank you for the info,
> It does have back gears,
> The gears (for thread cutting, carriage feed), I only have what is on the machine, & it moves the carriage way too fast?
> I do have some (were in the basement of the house when we bought it) seem to be the same pitch, they are numbered, but they seem to be cast iron?
> ...



It could be setup for threading, your going to need the right gears to get down to turning speeds.


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## wa5cab (Sep 8, 2016)

I just added a rather poor copy of the original Craftsman 101.07381 parts list to DOWNLOADS.  It may take a little while but I will eventually replace it with a cleaned up copy.  Before you click on DOWNLOADS and start looking for it, read *H - M Downloads - Navigation And Use *in the Sticky area at the top of this Forum.

Also, check the tooth count on the gears on the machine, find the combination on the threading chart that matches that, and you will at least know what it was last set for.


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## KenBeckett39 (Sep 8, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> I just added a rather poor copy of the original Craftsman 101.07381 parts list to DOWNLOADS.  It may take a little while but I will eventually replace it with a cleaned up copy.  Before you click on DOWNLOADS and start looking for it, read *H - M Downloads - Navigation And Use *in the Sticky area at the top of this Forum.
> 
> Also, check the tooth count on the gears on the machine, find the combination on the threading chart that matches that, and you will at least know what it was last set for.



Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wa5cab (Sep 10, 2016)

Ken,

Can you re-check the serial number stamped into the front way near the right end?  The L6 prefix is probably OK as we have one other report of that on a 101.07380.  But 17993 is much higher than the highest serial number of the 101.07383 (10661) which was probably made in 1945.

To comment on your questions about the banjo and gears, there were two different sets of gears used with the Atlas 10" and Craftsman 12" lathes.  All were Zamak (cast iron of steel would be OK if all of the dimensions are the same).  The gears used on the 10" up through the 10D (and the stripped down 10E) and the Craftsman 101.07360, 07361, 101.07380, 07381, 101.07400 and 07401 have a 3/8" gear face (width or thickness at the teeth) and a 3/8" thick hub.  The highest tooth count is 96T.  The gears used on everything later (up through 1981) are still Zamak and still have a 3/8" face but the hub length was increased in 1939 to 1/2" and all of the part numbers end with "A".  The highest tooth count is 64T..  The bushings and bolts are all 1/4" longer and all part numbers end with "A".  The longer hubs, bushings and bolts can all be cut down to match the non-A parts except that there was never a 96T gear to modify.  At the same time, the lower 32T gear on the tumbler was changed to a 16/32T compound gear and the gear it drives on the banjo was mounted on a full length bushing with a spacer to keep it from sliding.  Production of the 96T gears ceased years ago and they can be hard to find.

So to answer your question about changing the banjo to the one with Position D, if you have a full set of the 3/8" hub gears, you don't need to.  The early models that used the 3/8" hub gears would cut all of the threads that the later models will.  

If two of the gears on the machine are 96T, your least expensive option to get the machine back to full capability is probably going to be to buy the missing gears.  Either the early 3/8" hub or the later 1/2" hub, and follow the tech bulletin instructions for modifying them.  If you don't have two 96T gears, I would spend a few months looking for them first, before considering the other option of conversion.


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## KenBeckett39 (Sep 10, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> Ken,
> 
> Can you re-check the serial number stamped into the front way near the right end?  The L6 prefix is probably OK as we have one other report of that on a 101.07380.  But 17993 is much higher than the highest serial number of the 101.07383 (10661) which was probably made in 1945.
> 
> ...



I only have 1, 96t there and 24 on 36
I don't see what thread per inch that makes?
I know it's too fast for cutting
Thanks for the info

Serial Number




Needing so many gears seems I may be looking for a quick change?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wa5cab (Sep 11, 2016)

The site seems to be having problems again with photos and Tapatalk.  I downloaded from Tapatalk your photo of the right end of the front way, and then uploaded it here.  Afterwards, I also deleted the Tapatalk link that was showing as the red "X".

I believe that the machine serial number is 1799.  If you measure it, you will see that there is a double-space between the second "9" and the last character.  The last character may be a "3" although at first glance, in the photo it looks like a small zero.  But I don't think that it is part of the serial number.

On the gear question, if the 96T gear is on the Idler stud driven by the 32T tumbler gear and the 36T gear is on the lead screw with the 24T stacked on top of it as a spacer, then the feed is set to 9TPI, an odd figure, no pun intended.  And certainly far too fast for turning.

The oldest of the QCGB's, 101.20140, will fit the 101.07381 OK.  But you will still need a 40T and two 48T gears on the new quadrant (banjo), and the 32T gear on the quadrant will have to be replaced by a 16/32T compound gear, part number 10-1546.  If you get lucky, all of those gears may come with the gearbox (although the new conversion box originally only came with the 16/32T gear, it being assumed that the machine already had the other three.  And typical going price for a supposedly decent condition 101.20140 is $400 to $500.


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## wa5cab (Sep 11, 2016)

Ken (and any others interested),

I just uploaded a clean version of the 101.07381 flat file parts list (and one for the 101.07382).  And as soon as I clean it up a little and correct two errors, I'll upload a legible threading chart.


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## KenBeckett39 (Sep 12, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> Ken (and any others interested),
> 
> I just uploaded a clean version of the 101.07381 flat file parts list (and one for the 101.07382).  And as soon as I clean it up a little and correct two errors, I'll upload a legible threading chart.


Sorry bout the tapatalk (seemed easier I will try to avoid it in the future)
I really appreciate the help,

The thing I can't find is the compound is different then what I have seen so far, (notice the nuts under the center)  perhaps it was changed at some time?
Mine seems ok (although the carriage (slide part) seems to be zamak (hope not but I know with me it will eventually turn into a problem? perhaps I will have to be more carefull?)
I lost a couple teeth off the carriage traverse gear, got one on order (yay ebay)
Also noticed a crack in the carriage gear case, (am trying to make one out of aluminum See how that goes, I got a good casting (used lost Styrofoam) 
Again thanks for the help!
Ken


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## wa5cab (Sep 12, 2016)

Ken,

OK.  Seems that every time that Tapatalk has an update, many things quit working here.

On the cross slide and compound swivel, sounds like you have the early version.  The 101.07380 and 101.07381 were each made for nominally one year.  The Sears parts list for the 101.07381 shows the later pintle type part numbers and your photo shows your compound slide as having the 2-handle crank instead of the knob.  So I didn't think to ask you about that detail.  On the 10", the change was made at a certain serial number (listed in a lot of the early catalogs if you look at the catalog entry for the milling attachment).  Just going by the Craftsman catalog photos, it looks like the change on the 12" was made between the 101.07380 and the 101.07381.  Apparently Atlas used up available parts before making the change to the 12" production.  Other changes made around the same time were moving the ON-OFF switch to the headstock casting and the change from fabricated steel to cast iron change gear cover, both of which your machine has the later version parts of.

Anyway, you can differentiate between Zamak and cast iron or steel parts with a magnet.  Zamak is non-magnetic.  The 10-301, 10-302 and if necessary L3-303 are all pretty commonly available.  It unfortunately isn't unusual to have a cracked 9-11 carriage traverse gear case.


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## KenBeckett39 (Sep 12, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> Ken,
> 
> OK.  Seems that every time that Tapatalk has an update, many things quit working here.
> 
> ...



Will probably need to acquire the needed stuff & ability to repair zamak, (seems I will need it)?
I made the assumption the gear was aluminum, I was wrong, I did a good job of getting 1 of the teeth tigged up only to realize the rest of the gear was melting?
After thought, if you can control the heat aluminum will fix it?


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## KenBeckett39 (Sep 15, 2016)

Well the carriage traverse gear arrived yesterday, I have the gear case almost ready, (gotta fit it & make sure it all lines up)


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## wa5cab (Sep 15, 2016)

Aluminum will probably be strong enough for the job but it does not wear well.  I would recommend bushing the shaft hole.


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## KenBeckett39 (Sep 16, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> Aluminum will probably be strong enough for the job but it does not wear well.  I would recommend bushing the shaft hole.


I did think of that, the old one was not worn at all, just the small end mount broke off, I suspect when the tooth broke caused it?
So far it was just an issue of getting it lined up to function, (there is not a lot of room)
I got it to function pretty good, had to put some shims on to line up the gears that go to the rack,
I got it working well,
I don't like the peening of the shaft end to hold the gears on, but there is not much room to retain them?

Anyone use the super alloy 1 ??
Seems kinda pricey, supposed to work on zamak?


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## Jman (Oct 29, 2016)

Ken is there enough room to cut a small snap ring groove?


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## KenBeckett39 (Oct 29, 2016)

Jman said:


> Ken is there enough room to cut a small snap ring groove?


As is no, would have to either make a longer shaft, shave the gears or a combination of both?
That is an idea I may consider in the future, thank you
It has so far been working ok, 

I am considering changing over to power cross feed (been watching fleBay) but $$$?
mostly because I would like to change the compound rest (my base is zamac with the 2 nuts, seems to be a weak point, & someone has over tightened the nuts causing it to not rotate well,)

also watching for change gears, I got a 64 tooth for $16 shipped, like brand new, (even at that I would have a lot $$ invested to get all I may need)  
working on making a dividing head (a combination of plans I found, kind of my own version?)  but time is limited!

I appreciate the help, I come here often to snoop around, have found a lot of good info,
Thanks to all
Ken


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## Jman (Oct 29, 2016)

OK Ken one more idea you might consider.  Could you drill and tap a small dia. hole in the end of the shaft then screw on a small washer with a low profile or flathead screw.


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## wa5cab (Oct 29, 2016)

Jman,

You could do that and if you countersink the hole in the shaft before tapping, you would not have to use a special relieved flat head screw at least on the end of the shaft that is close up to the bed.  But the problem is that the square hole through the gears (there are three of them attached in this manner) is a slip fit onto the square end of the shafts.  The gear when slipped onto the shaft before peening can rotate a little bit.  The peening eliminates the clearance and the back lash, as well as retaining the gear on the shaft.  With the gear retained by a flat washer, the torque could eventually loosen the screw, and Murphy being who he is, probably sooner rather than later.


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## Jman (Oct 29, 2016)

Robert I have always had more problems with Murphy and his law by not doing something that I know I should do, rather then taking the time or putting in the effort to fixing or trying to improve something that might slow him down. Of course I also have to remember the mistakes I have made trying to fix or improve something that was working fine as it is, like Ken's shafts.


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## wa5cab (Oct 30, 2016)

Well, always remember, ifn it ain't broke, don fis it.


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## KenBeckett39 (Oct 31, 2016)

I had to use a center punch on the one end to get the gear tight (it has apparently been changed before)
The main issue is reusing an existing gear, (don't take it off the shaft if you don't have to (pushing it out enlarges the hole in the gear, requiring extra peaning)


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