# Pm-1228 Replacement V Belt?



## sierrasmith71 (Dec 14, 2016)

I KNOW  I read a posting from someone that found a replacement V belt for the PM -1228 ( searched everywhere --of course not in the place where it is located-- and can not find it!). Mine is on a brand new machine with very low hours (just break in) and is shedding LOTS of black dust and at this rate it will soon disappear, so I better order a new one.

Does any one know where to find a source?


Thanks in advance

David G.


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## Heckle and Jeckle (Dec 14, 2016)

I would look for what it is rubbing on first .... pop the one off that's on it and go match it. The manual is a bit vague to say the least, has a picture pn# 970, part list stops at 950 WTF lol

That lathe has a 3 year warranty on it,  i think Matt could give the size..  Not having wear problems with mine, no dusting under the cover.
Greg


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## Lonnie (Dec 15, 2016)

Sounds like the same crappy belt type that came on my PM1340. Mine did the same thing, got belt dust all over making a horrible mess.

I tried a few different brands of v belt but was never really happy with them. I finally ended up replacing the belt on my lathe with a Power Twist link belt.   Power Twist Link Belt 
I just put the link up for a reference. These belts have been working very well for me.


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## sierrasmith71 (Dec 15, 2016)

Lonnie said:


> Sounds like the same crappy belt type that came on my PM1340. Mine did the same thing, got belt dust all over making a horrible mess.
> 
> I tried a few different brands of v belt but was never really happy with them. I finally ended up replacing the belt on my lathe with a Power Twist link belt.   Power Twist Link Belt
> I just put the link up for a reference. These belts have been working very well for me.




I looked very carefully and the pulleys are in line and there is nothing rubbing.  I checked the tightness ,  half inch deflection on the longest span and I am just able to rotate the belt 90 degrees....


Mine measure to be 3/8" wide and EBay vendors want about $10.00  a foot for 3/8" link belts, Wow....But I guess you get what you pay for with these belts.
Thanks for the heads up.


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## lpeedin (Dec 15, 2016)

Bet if you took the belt off & carried it to one of the old school auto parts stores in your area they could match it up for you. If you go to one of the new cookie cutter stores they'll want to know if your lathe is 2 wheel or 4 wheel drive. 


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## Muskt (Dec 15, 2016)

I experienced a similar situation on my PM12x36.  Black stuff everywhere + vibration/shaking.  I checked the pulley alignment, & it was just slightly off, so I fixed that.  The black stuff continued to occur.  Went to NAPA & obtained 2 Gates  (green) belts.  Obviously no more black; but, no green either.  I still experienced the vibration/shake, so I removed one of the two belts.  BETTER!!  Still not quite to my liking, so I next ordered enough of the link belting (red) & constructed one belt.  MUCH BETTER!!!  No red flakes, either.
I ordered the belting from Amazon.  Sold by Peachtree Woodworking--7 feet was $8.99.  Sorry, I do not have a link.

Jerry in Delaware


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## bss1 (Dec 15, 2016)

+1 on what Lonnie and Muskt said about the link belts. I just got my PM 1340 up and running so I can't comment with experience on this particular machine. However, I have been running the power twist link belts on all of my machines including a prior lathe, 3 bandsaws and a milling machine for approximately 10 years with great results. They run smooth and don't take a set like the rubber belts do. I never even gave the stock belt on my 1340 a chance. Without hesitation I paid the $30+ for the 3' of belting needed and scrapped the original belt. I recently saw some link belt that looks exactly like the fenner power twist belts at harbor freight at half the price of the power twist. Unfortunately they are not the right width and profile needed for the 1340. 


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## Alan H. (Dec 15, 2016)

I too have it on many machines and the belts perform flawlessly.  However those machines do not reverse direction of the drives.  

T*he Fenner Powertwist belts are directional.*   Instructions to that effect are inside the sleeve that they come packaged in and also on their instructional videos on their website.  Therefore I would not use it on a metal lathe that reverses.  

http://www.fennerdrives.com/videos/?=


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## Heckle and Jeckle (Dec 16, 2016)

I do not like the idea of those belts, pulley wear, vibration. Never ever have had a problem with rubber.  You name it from cars too compressors, including attic fans........ never ever. If the equipment is shredding belts, the belt is rubbing, or some surface it is passing over has a problem with the finish or in alignment.

Greg


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## bss1 (Dec 16, 2016)

Yes I am aware of the directional nature of the link belts. However, from a practical perspective I have never experienced any negative consequences from using one. As previously mentioned, I have used one on my milling machine for at least 10 years. Granted the time used in reverse is minimal about like what I would expect the use to be with a lathe. With that said I have used it in reverse for backing out after power tapping and drilling with left twist drill bits on many occasions.  The belt still performs as it did when new 10 plus years ago. Previous to seeing and responding to this thread I ran my new pm1340gt in reverse at all speeds yesterday for at least ten minutes without a thought until reading this thread. So I went out this am and looked at the belt. I didn't see anything that looked unusual nor did I experience any noise or vibration when running it last night. I looked at the belt on my mill and the belt and pulleys looked good too. 

One might ask what is the risk of running one of these belts in reverse. In an attempt to answer that question I called Fenner Drives this am to ask. Indeed they do recommend utilizing these belts in applications where the primary use is in one direction. However, the representative I spoke with had no issues with an application such as on a mill or lathe whereas a small percentage of use is in reverse. He mentioned the exception to this is when the belt is used in a clutching application. I asked what negative consequence could come from running in reverse. His response was possible faster wear of the belt.  From that perspective the ten year old belt on my mill is still in great shape. If I have to replace it in ten more years, so be it. 

I have personally experienced issues with heavy rubber belts taking a set on some of my less used wood working equipment. I had a jet band saw that would shake like a leaf for a while until the the belt warmed up and the set wore out.  

Granted, in my experience, there is nothing wrong with rubber other than the set issue mention with a solid rubber v belt.  I think a cogged rubber belt in this application is a solid choice and would likely run smoother and be less likely to take a set if not used on a regular basis. Running in reverse wouldn't be an issue with one either. If I thought I would be doing a lot of cutting in reverse I would have chosen a cogged rubber belt for my mill and lathe. 

Please keep in mind these are my personal opinions based on actual usage within the limited applications described above. I don't want or mean to be argumentative, I just want to make sure I have adequately described my use for others to make their own judgements and decisions. YMMV.


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## Alan H. (Dec 16, 2016)

Not wanting to be argumentative but when I called technical service at Fenner they said "no" and their answer was emphatic.  They weren't willing to even discuss a part time reverse application, it was "no ifs, ands, or buts".  Guess I didn't get to talk to the right person.  

I sincerely wanted to put it on my PM1340GT when I called them.

Here it is on the inside of the sleeve that the belt comes in.  I keep a stock of the stuff and have a sleeve handy:


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## jbolt (Dec 16, 2016)

The belts on my PM-1440GT also had the black dust problem but it eventually went away after time. After I did the 3 phase motor conversion I changed the factory belts to Gates Tri-power because I needed a slightly longer belt. No dust with these. 

I think a lot of the vibration problems some have with v-belts are due to not having the correct tension, usually too low. The Gates tension gauges are about $10 and you can get all their tensioning data online.

The belt on the 1228 is most likely a metric SPZ (9.7mm x 8mm). The Imperial equivalent would be a 3L (3/8" x 5/16"). There are plenty of online belt size calculators you can use to get the correct size or you can measure the length of the outside of the belt you have.


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## Alan H. (Dec 16, 2016)

Jay, I think the Gates Tri Power is a good solution.   Thanks for the tip on the tension gauges.  Is this it?


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## jbolt (Dec 16, 2016)

H&A said:


> Jay, I think the Gates Tri Power is a good solution.   Thanks for the tip on the tension gauges.  Is this it?
> 
> View attachment 141571



 That's it. They make a few different weight ranges so figure out what the tension should be first.


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## Tired&Retired (Jan 8, 2022)

Yeah, I know this is an OLD thread, but I have this same question as originally stated and looking for an answer.

I am at the end of travel of the adjustment for tension on the v-belt and after doing some digging around, it appears that the belt says 10 x 838 for the dimensions.  The belt actually says something like 838 x 8 (10), so I went to Grizzly's site and found a lathe that appears nearly identical. They list the actual dimensions in their manual and that is stating 10 x 838 for the drive v-belt.  So I went and got one.  Nope, no dice.  Too short.  But the thing I found interesting is that the belt on the PM-1228 is likely an 8 mm, but I haven't measured it yet.  It sets deeper in the pulley grooves than a belt should. The 10 mm belt I got actually fits the pully correctly, in that it is flush with the lips of the pulley, instead of recessed as the belt is that came with the lathe. So I am thinking that there is a practical difference between the 8 x 838 and the 10 x 838 belts, in that the 10mm sits higher in the pulley, and that replacement belt actually needs to be something like 10 x 870, or thereabouts, to compensate for the outside edge sitting higher in the pulleys.

I contacted PM, and they are sending me out a free replacement, which is nice of them. Mike said the dimensions I was using should be correct, and said I should check out the measurements on the new one to see how it compares. I haven't really used the lathe all that much, so it is disappointing that it got so loose so quickly on me. I want to do some tinkering around with knurling, so I don't want that to get the belt slipping on me in the middle of that.

As an aside,  I am thinking what I might need to do is to remove tension on the tensioner when I am not using the lathe, and only tighten it up just prior to me using it.  Might save me from having to replace the belt every year when it is under tension all the time the lathe isn't being used.

So has anyone else actually figured out the CORRECT size belt for this lathe? Save me from having to do the hunt and peck method of finding that magic numbered belt?


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## Bryan40g (Jan 8, 2022)

I installed a gates truflex 1345 on pm1228 day one. They must have test ran mine because black belt dust was all over inside when I received it. After cleaning it all up the gates hasn’t made a mess yet. I tension it enough to have about a 1/4” movement or that I can twist it 90 degrees. I’m a diesel mechanic and that’s what I was taught in school.

I don’t think you need to release tension on the belt when not in use. That’s really more for bandsaw blades and their adjustment springs. No problem with my gates belt. Like I say, adjust the tensioner so that you can twist the belt in the middle 90 degrees with your thumb and fore finger. Or allow about 1/4” up and down movement. You’ll be good to go. No gauge needed. Been doing that 16 years at my job. Never had a problem with any type of belt. 

Here’s is the package my belt came in. I also tried a Truflex 1350 but switched to the 1345 so the tension pulley wasn’t adjusted so far.


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## Tired&Retired (Jan 9, 2022)

I did some measurements yesterday, and the top edges of the pulley groove are roughly 9.97mm wide.  A 3/8" belt will be 9.5mm, so pretty close. I think a 10mm belt will just fit better. Height of the pulley groove is 10.37mm and at the bottom of the groove, 4.08mm. I measured around the pulleys on the outer edges and came up with 885mm (34 7/8").  Distance between centers of the motor pulley and the drive pulley is 11.5".  Diameter of drive pulley is 5.5" and diameter of the motor pulley is 1.75".  This is using the smaller pulley on the motor and the larger pulley on the spindle (for the slower speed).

I sent all these dimensions to a company that specializes in V-belt replacements (https://www.vbeltsupply.com/), so I am going to see what they can come up with.

But thanks for some leads on the 3/8" belt candidates.  Personally, from what I have been learning about V-belts VERY recently, I think the stock belt that comes with this lathe (8mm width, I believe) is just too narrow and sets too deeply in the pulley grooves.  It will apparently work, but I don't think it is the optimum size for this application. But I'll know more (hopefully) when I get more belts to try to see what seems to fit best.

Personally, I think I am going to back off the tension wheel whenever I am not using the lathe.  I think it will reduce the stretching that belts undergo over time and keep belt changes down to a minimum.  Maybe a better quality belt than the stock one wouldn't be as much of an issue, however.  I haven't used the lathe much at all in the past year, so it is not from running the machine that the belt stretched like it did.

BTW, I spent time last night looking for every instance I could find of a v-belt being used on a lathe, and ALL of them had the belt sitting flush with the edges of the pulley groove.  Of course, might be a case of "inconsequential differences".


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## Tired&Retired (Jan 30, 2022)

Well, I went and ordered several different sized belts for the 1228 from an outfit called OffRoadBelts.com.  Great people and very reasonable prices, BTW.  So when they came in, I tried them all, and the best fitting one was the *10mm x 875mm* one.  Guess I could have saved some time and trouble just by going by *Bryan40g*'s suggestion, but I just wanted to double check for my own satisfaction. But that did give me a good starting point to work around. Plus I had something perhaps different in mind to try. I actually went and bought some small tools for installing and removing V-belts, but I decided I didn't want to pre-stress the belt by having to force it up and over the lips of the pulleys to place the belt in the grooves. My idea was to pull off the pulley from the motor shaft, position the belt into the pulley grooves, and then slip the pulley back onto the motor shaft. With the 10x875 belt, this was pretty much an EXACT fit and worked like a charm. Only had to do some minor tugging to get the pulley onto the motor shaft, lining it up properly, tap it lightly with a soft mallet, and it was done. Actually it feels like I won't even need to use the tensioner at all to start off with as it is tight enough, as is. I also selected a cogged belt, as I felt it would be a better match for this application than a solid belt. Apparently cogged belts are better on smaller pulley diameters.

I also received the free replacement belt from PrecisionMatthews (thanks Mike!). Oddly enough it states right on the belt that it is an 838mm long belt, and it measures as being 9.5mm or so in width.  I bought a belt measuring tool, and according to it, this belt actually measures 10mm x 875mm, regardless of what is imprinted upon it. Little wonder this was so confusing. I did pass this info onto Mike at PM, btw.

So all is well that ends well.  Have the new belt on the machine and a couple of spares to boot.

Pics are attached of the OffRoadBelts cogged belt mounted on the PM-1228 and then measurements of the replacement belt I got from PM.


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## pdentrem (Jan 30, 2022)

I wonder if there is a correction factor applied to that belt. I know that when I order a belt there can be one. Could it measure 838 on the inside? See a chart about halfway down the page.
Pierre






						How To Measure V Belts Correctly - Determine My V Belt Size
					






					www.vbelts4less.com


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## Firebrick43 (Jan 30, 2022)

Tired&Retired said:


> Well, I went and ordered several different sized belts for the 1228 from an outfit called OffRoadBelts.com.  Great people and very reasonable prices, BTW.  So when they came in, I tried them all, and the best fitting one was the *10mm x 875mm* one.  Guess I could have saved some time and trouble just by going by *Bryan40g*'s suggestion, but I just wanted to double check for my own satisfaction. But that did give me a good starting point to work around. Plus I had something perhaps different in mind to try. I actually went and bought some small tools for installing and removing V-belts, but I decided I didn't want to pre-stress the belt by having to force it up and over the lips of the pulleys to place the belt in the grooves. My idea was to pull off the pulley from the motor shaft, position the belt into the pulley grooves, and then slip the pulley back onto the motor shaft. With the 10x875 belt, this was pretty much an EXACT fit and worked like a charm. Only had to do some minor tugging to get the pulley onto the motor shaft, lining it up properly, tap it lightly with a soft mallet, and it was done. Actually it feels like I won't even need to use the tensioner at all to start off with as it is tight enough, as is. I also selected a cogged belt, as I felt it would be a better match for this application than a solid belt. Apparently cogged belts are better on smaller pulley diameters.
> 
> I also received the free replacement belt from PrecisionMatthews (thanks Mike!). Oddly enough it states right on the belt that it is an 838mm long belt, and it measures as being 9.5mm or so in width.  I bought a belt measuring tool, and according to it, this belt actually measures 10mm x 875mm, regardless of what is imprinted upon it. Little wonder this was so confusing. I did pass this info onto Mike at PM, btw.
> 
> ...


The inside to outside correction for a 10/10x metric belt is 38mm, which is why you measure 875 and the other one is 838.  Also the Li next to the 838 denotes inside diameters.  If it LA it would be outside diameter, and Lp with be pitch diameter which is part way down the belt.  Metric belts are even more confusing than standard belt measurements.  

Good for using the cogged belt, much smoother and better power transfer around small diameter pulleys.  

Stay away from the fenner power twist.  I have witnessed several seriously worn pulleys from running long hours on them.  We keep it at work as back up for odd size belts that we don't stock but replace them as soon as we get a proper v belt in.


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## Tired&Retired (Jan 30, 2022)

Yeah, the more I got into this belt measuring nonsense, the worse it got.  Just trying to find a belt measuring tool that would determine the width of the belt along with the length in both metric and inches proved to be like looking for unicorn feathers. As it turned out when I ordered the belt measuring tool from Amazon, I didn't even get the one that was pictured in the ad.  I almost returned this one, but come to find out, there really wasn't anything better available. And the one I got will at least also measure serpentine belts too. So what the heck.

I always thought you measured V-belts on the outside diameter because the belt actually rides on the sides of the "V" in the pulleys. so it is that outside edge that is important for the measurement.  A V-belt really shouldn't ride all the way down into the groove to where it bottoms out in the pulley.  There should always be some air gap there. At least that is as best I could determine in my brief foray into the V-belt world.

I guess I can see if one of the local auto parts stores wants a handful of miscellaneously sized belts I now have. I sure don't need them laying around here.


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