# Lifting from ceiling



## strantor (Dec 29, 2018)

Doing some spring cleaning in the shop I came across this chain hoist I forgot I had. Then I remembered I have a beam clamp somewhere, found it. I hung the chain hoist from the center beam of my shop. 




I haven't lifted anything with it yet; I can't decide whether this is a bad idea or not. The shop is 30'×30' so this beam is a 30ft span and supports the entire middle of the roof. It seems quite substantial but I don't know how to calculate what's a safe weight to put on it. Whoever designed the building did that math and I assume the weight they designed it for is the weight of the roof, nothing else. But there must be some safety factor, right? How much would you say is OK to hang from the ceiling? Is anyone here lifting from the ceiling like this? If so, how much?


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## strantor (Dec 29, 2018)

Forgot to mention:
This is an engineered building, built to withstand sustained hurricane force winds. In other words, it's "over built" and certified as such, so that I can insure the building and its contents just a few miles from the gulf of Mexico.


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## strantor (Dec 29, 2018)

I checked the blueprints to see if there were any clues. They give load ratings for the roof but I don't know how to interpret them.


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## pacifica (Dec 29, 2018)

I would put a support column or two under it before I lifted anything over 800#. I lifted my 1200 # mill from ceiling joist and put 4x6 columns under each side, no issues, but it can go sideways pretty fast without the columns (which can hold substantial amounts under compression). the issue is shear forces.


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## Diecutter (Dec 29, 2018)

When I had my home built 40 years ago the contractor put a steel I-beam across the ceiling in the garage. It still brings me satisfaction every time something heavy has to be lifted out of the pickup bed of my truck.


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## strantor (Dec 29, 2018)

I found a good use for the hoist even if I can't lift heavy stuff with it. My shoes should be nice & toasty by the time I need to put them back on my toasty feet. My Dr. Put me on some thyroid medicine and now my hands and feet get colder than ambient. Im pretty sure I have good circulation but it's as if my blood has turned to freon.


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## GL (Dec 29, 2018)

Good thing those aren't your size 17 snow boots, or you would be back to your original question. But sometimes a man has to do what a man has to do.  

Your specs don't seem to offer any help.  Are you able to go back to whoever built the building to get an answer?  If you can span a couple of "rafters" and move the load closer to the wall you will have more lift capability, and as others have said, a vertical will help a bunch.


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## strantor (Dec 29, 2018)

GL said:


> Good thing those aren't your size 17 snow boots, or you would be back to your original question. But sometimes a man has to do what a man has to do.
> 
> Your specs don't seem to offer any help.  Are you able to go back to whoever built the building to get an answer?  If you can span a couple of "rafters" and move the load closer to the wall you will have more lift capability, and as others have said, a vertical will help a bunch.


I texted the builder about it but no response yet. I'll call him Monday if I don't have a reply by then. I'm predicting his answer will be a CYA case "don't do it" without actually looking into it.


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## tq60 (Dec 29, 2018)

Do NOT lift anything more than about 100 pounds.

You have a triangle formed by two roof beams and the distance between walls...but...nothing holding the tops of the walls together.

W/o downward force at peak will try to spread the walls out.

The beams look substantial but they still can move as the leverage is great.

Without cross bracing under the peak or across the top of the walls the structure does not have much relative strength to lift, might have a bunch.

Place a call to the manufacturer of the building as they can tell you what the building can do.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## mickri (Dec 30, 2018)

You definitely need to contact the manufacturer of the building.  That is a prefab metal building.  These types of buildings are only designed to handle the intended loads.  Hurricane wind loads are an entirely different kind of load from the point load of lifting a heavy weight.  To get a meaningful response from the building manufacturer you will need to know the weight of what you want to lift.  That is the first question that they will ask you.  Then they can tell you what you need to do to strengthen the building to handle the intended load and probably can supply the needed parts.


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## Stonebriar (Dec 30, 2018)

Gantry crane is much cheaper than erecting a new building.


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## Bob Korves (Dec 30, 2018)

The flatness of the roof beam angles make for quite weak strength against whatever is supported at the middle of them.  Like said above, I would not try to lift more than 100 pounds as is, and would watch it carefully for signs of problems.  Like also said above, vertical braces like 4x6's close in to what you are lifting, can lift very heavy amounts.  It is useful to create basically a gantry crane as narrow as what you are lifting, with the existing structure just helping to keep it all vertical.  The setup can be cobbled together, just be aware of the forces trying to spring the lumber in compression and avoiding the entire cobbled setup racking into a parallelogram under load.  It would not be crazy to lift at least a ton with such a setup, depending on understanding the load paths and accounting for them.


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## hermetic (Dec 30, 2018)

You could use a couple of Acrow jacks bearing on shaped timber blocks placed underneath the purlins to transfer some of the load to the ground. As Bob says above, the flatness of the roof means that you are trying to pull the ridge down, which will force the walls apart. In medieval times they would have put flying butresses outside the building, you could do this, but it would probably be cheaper to buy a gantry crane. i too have an RSJ lifting beam, and it has saved my back and removed some very heavy engines as well!
Phil


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## derf (Dec 30, 2018)

Do a compression test. Hang a plumb bob from the peak so it's 1" off the floor, then lift something heavy to see what it takes to make it touch the floor. Use good judgement, maybe that will give you some factors to figure.


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## samstu (Dec 30, 2018)

A couple hundred pounds lift sure can be handy but that chain hoist will likely do more than the building is rated.  And there lies the problem, you have no built in safety factor and no ability to limit the load to only a couple hundred pounds.  The failure mode is a roof /beam heading for you and the floor.  Where do u stand for safety?   If your gantry crane, engine hoist or tractor front end loader fails, you probably won't be under it when goes to ground and your roof will still be safely suspended above you.


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## john.k (Jan 2, 2019)

A roof frame is always capable of supporting two men working on the roof...the frame looks like 5x3 Hot rolled beam,..I put a lifting beam in a similar frame by installing a length of similar section lengthwise in the peaks of the frame .,then using a block on a runner.In this case the chain block /beam is always supported by some combination of all the roof frame........but would need a complex stressing calculation to assess point load on one element.......which is what computers do very well.


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## mike44 (Sep 9, 2020)

I have lifted a lathe and a mill from the ceiling. The joists are 10" engineered joists. I laid a 8'-0" 4x6 across the joists in the loft. A 7/8" bolt, threaded connector and an eye bolt came thru the 4x6. A 1/2 ton come-a-long and nylon straps for the lift. This set up worked but was a PITA. 
This was done about 20 years ago. Last month I had to lift the lathe 8" or so to remove the bottom studs and nuts on the motor mount frame.
I bought a 2 ton shop crane  and made this job easy. 
mike


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## tjb (Sep 9, 2020)

Stonebriar said:


> Gantry crane is much cheaper than erecting a new building.


I agree.

What do you intend to move?  If it's large enough to consider using a ceiling crane, it's probably going to be too much load for that building.  Hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like the building has a relatively shallow roof pitch.  That's not good for a ceiling crane.  But it also looks like it is large enough in floor space and vertical clearance to accommodate a gantry crane.  Definitely a lot less risk involved.  Also, depending on what you're trying to move, you can accomplish a whole lot with an engine hoist and pallet jack - especially if you've got the floor area.  I've moved plenty of pieces of equipment that way.

Regards,
Terry


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## Larry$ (Sep 21, 2020)

My metal building is of the ridged frame construction so more capable. but Where I live a 30#/ sq. ft. snow load is figured. So the roof framing is designed for that + a safety factor. Using the distributed nature of the loading design you can figure what just the snow load force would be at any point. You can't count wind load for roof downward force. Ask the city what design load is required for a permit. I some cases the design limitation is based on sag, not failure point. The kind of frame in your building will have the roof WF beam designed as a simple beam. The fact that it is two parts bolted together and on a slope doesn't affect the design. No increase or decrease in strength results from the shallow V since there is no bottom cord.  The WF building columns were most likely considered as pin connections for design meaning no outward force resistance need be considered. For practical purposes the pry on the foundation bolts would have to be the resistance ability, not enough to count. If you are really into it, look up a copy of the steel structures hand book. There are tables that show what design load can be used for each size of beam. You need to accurately measure your beam to look it up. To be on the safe side use the lowest strength steel for your calculations. Somewhere in my mess I've still got my steel design book from taking the classes in structural design. A university library will have a current copy.


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