# Lathe thing



## Glenn Brooks (May 10, 2017)

Thinking about making something like this for my QCTP on my lathe.  Not sure how the chain lift works.  Some sort of sprocket that winds the chain up and down from the handwheel, I suppose.  Way cool mini crane!  

This one is hard at work in the Car Shops of the Swanton Pacific 19" ga volunteer railroad, a bit north of Santa Cruz on the coast road.







Glenn


----------



## darkzero (May 10, 2017)

That one is made by Sky Hook, or at least it looks identical. Pretty cool that they have models that mount directly on a QCTP. They're still in business & they pop up on ebay from time to time.

http://www.skyhookmfr.com/model8500.html


----------



## Superburban (May 10, 2017)

Cool idea, I would never have thought the tool post would take the stress.


----------



## talvare (May 10, 2017)

Apparently that set-up works, but I would be very reluctant to subject my compound to that sort of stress.

Ted


----------



## RJSakowski (May 10, 2017)

Not for my lathe!  
That's an awfully long lever arm.   The compound and cross feed ways were not designed to handle loads like that.


----------



## chips&more (May 10, 2017)

Well, you need to do something? That chuck is a tad on the heavy side. Hard to wrestle that that size chuck without breaking your back! But then that crane thing is not light either and awkward to place in its anchored spot. And now the part I would never want to do on my lathe. I would never try the crane set-up as shown in the pic. That is way too much stress on the carriage assembly. It’s not designed for that…Dave


----------



## westsailpat (May 10, 2017)

I have to hand it to you Glenn , your on vacation and you hang out in machine shops . I love it .


----------



## hermetic (May 10, 2017)

If the QCTP is fixed to a T slot in the top slide, it is only a matter of time before the cast iron gives up the ghost, and the whole lot crashes to the floor, probably wrecking the lathe, and with any luck, not killing someone in the process! A VERY dangerous set up which will fail with no prior warning because it is a casting. At the very least this will wreck the dovetail on the QCTP. If anyone set this up in my shop, I would kick his backside all the way to the employment exchange!


----------



## dlane (May 10, 2017)

Not on my lathe, I know some folks in Santa Cruz aren't the brightest candles on the cake, but what were they thinking


----------



## RJSakowski (May 10, 2017)

I would mount a short piece of track with a trolley and hoist over the lathe with enough travel to be able to load and unload from a cart.  Other than that, an engine hoist would work.


----------



## jbolt (May 10, 2017)

Apparently it works and judging by the looks of it that one has been in service for a long time. The fact that the crane and adapter are made specifically for that purpose (and the company is still in business) suggest the product works and without maiming or killing everyone who uses it. Now while I wouldn't put that on a mini-lathe, for the size of lathe it is on seems quite reasonable. If someone actually did the math I'd bet the overturning force is pretty reasonable. To me the weak link is the connection between the adapter and tool holder.


----------



## darkzero (May 10, 2017)

I just looked at their website & they actually make adapters for smaller tool posts which surprised me. I don't see why you would need one of these for lathes smaller than maybe 17x or 16x.

I agree with with jbolt, I'm sure they've thought things through & have tested them. These have been around for a while.

I'm surprised they even make it for a BXA & KDK. Then again it says it only weighs 23 lbs & max load is 500lbs. I wouldn't try it on my little 12x but then again I wouldn't have a need for one anyway.

Wow, you guys have big lathes!


----------



## Superburban (May 10, 2017)

jbolt said:


> To me the weak link is the connection between the adapter and tool holder.



I agree, that would be the weak link. I did not even catch that it was held in a normal tool holder. Can't even imagine the forces at play, 50 to 75 lbs, a foot and a half or so out. Besides the risk to the lathe, I would worry about the risk to the operator. 

How is the eyebolt attached to the 3 jaw?


----------



## jbolt (May 10, 2017)

darkzero said:


> I just looked at their website & they actually make adapters for smaller tool posts which surprised me. I don't see why you would need one of these for lathes smaller than maybe 17x or 16x.
> 
> I agree with with jbolt, I'm sure they've thought things through & have tested them. These have been around for a while.
> 
> ...



Its not always the size of the lathe. At some point the age and/or health of the operator comes into play.


----------



## jbolt (May 10, 2017)

Superburban said:


> I agree, that would be the weak link. I did not even catch that it was held in a normal tool holder.



Looks like with the current offerings the dovetail is cast as part base of the crane eliminating that joint. Much better assembly.


----------



## dlane (May 10, 2017)

Ok I see now the men at work sign is supporting the tool holder, I take back my earlier comment


----------



## cjtoombs (May 10, 2017)

I wouldn't want to use that on anything but a fairly large lathe, but I guess that's what they are for.  We had an air operated jib crane that was used to load crankshafts into the crank grinder when I worked at the automotive machine shop.  It would be very handy for jobs like that.  It was operated via a pressure regulator so that you could basically get the crank to float in the air by balancing the air pressure against the weight of the crank, making it very easy to load into the centers on the grinder.  I suspect it wouldn't lift a very heavy load, but I don't think we ever ground any crankshafts that weighed more than about 400 lbs or so.


----------



## core-oil (May 10, 2017)

I certainly do not feel too soft , warm & fuzzy  with the thought of the crane assembly tied on to my top slide, But to save old folks like me from heart attacks, hernias, & buggered backs I do not see any faults in having an attachment made which rests the little crane on top of the lathe bed with a bottom clamp and long bolt up through the centre of the lathe bed, it could be made a quick assembly unit,
 It is not unknown for lathe beds to recieve a lot of damage through heavy chucks etc being slammed down on the Vees, Not to mention trapped fingers, Once the chuck is lifted up a wooden dedicated chuck holding fixture could be used into which the crane places the chuck, Whence it can be slid along in line with the mandrel nose

Just had a look at the link to Skyhooks website,  The range of light lifting cranes they have especially attached to portable workshop lifting units is awesome in their simplicity, For a one man workshop these little cranes would had one been around have saved a friend of mine (One man small workshop) from a ghastly injury, in which he ended up lying injured for twelve hours and never worked again  I think they could be a blessing in a small shop


----------



## Glenn Brooks (May 10, 2017)

I didn't measure this unit, but the web site listed above shows the assembly is 18" tall and 21" horizontal arm.  Seems about right for what I saw on site. It's Rated at 500# max load.  Hardly a towering man killer as some have suggested. At least I didn't see any pile of corpses, crushed hard hats,  or misc body parts laying about the shop.  

They also have a shop built gantry that looks pretty well suited to the heavy lifting they occasionally do.  One of the photos below shows it straddling their road diesel ( just opposite the lathe).

The mechanical guys (and gals) maintaining the railroad have been at it now for 35 years or so.  They seem competent in keeping their three 102 year old steam locomotives, a diesel road switcher, and a steam powered wrecking crane in operational service. So, I trust their deployment of machinery and maintenance  practices. The rolling stock and Steamers originally were used as people movers during the 1915 San Francisco Exposition, then latter saved from the scrap man in the early 1970's by Al Smith, of Orchard Supply fame.  The diesel came into inventory around 1980, if I remember correctly.  Don't have a photo, but the club members also scratch built a fully operational 5" scale RR construction crane to assist with ROW maintenance and any derailments that might occur.  Al brought the RR to his 3000 acre ranch near Davenport and established a non profit trust and land grant to the UCSB to ensure the RR would be maintained and supported in perpetuity, after his passing.  Today the RR is operated and maintained as a volunteer organization, supported by the UCSB Engineering department, and a substantial membership of Live steam club members - much like 7 1/2" ga. live steam clubs - only everything here is 19" ga. It is quite an operation, albeit low key, with 1.5 mile of track on the UC owned  Swanton ranch property, and always interested in recruiting new members.  One of the benefits of membership is the opportunity to OJT into becoming a steam engineer running their locomotives during public run days.

Oh well, Back to hoist... At the time of my visit, I thought the chuck in the photo looked to be around 100 lbs deadweight, more or less. More than I want muscle around at arms length anymore.

One of my lathes is sitting up against a wall.. another 14" lathe is sitting opposite, in the middle of the shop. I suppose one could rig up some sort of floor mount, ala engine stand style, on the backside of either machine,  that could hold a vertical post,  apon which one could mount the crane part.   Still a cool idea I think.

Glenn


----------



## Superburban (May 10, 2017)

Just because it has been done that way for 100 years, does not mean it is safe. I'm sure they have load tested them, and are sure of their design, But I cannot imagine a BXA tool post taking that kind of torture. I also cannot imagine Aloris, or any lathe manufacturer saying that kind of force is ok. 500 lb capacity, at almost 2 feet. Almost 1000 ft lbs of torque on a 3/4" X 3/4" projection of cast iron, clamped in a BXA tool holder, on a tool post held down by a 5/8" bolt, clamped to 2 1/8" thick layers of steel (Compound Tee slot), held to the slide by 2 3/8" or so triangular sections. 

It may be within the safe limits of all those parts, but still not for me. I would not even think of using the compound to lift the saddle off the ways, much less using the compound to lift a chuck to the spindle.


----------



## Silverbullet (May 10, 2017)

I'd have to make it it's own slide to use the ways like a tailstock , or underneath  and make a swivel to get it out of the way. On the tool post you have to move it on or off. I bet it weighs a bit too. Small gantry best option


----------



## talvare (May 11, 2017)

Glenn,
I completely understand not wanting to wrestle with those heavy chucks. I had the same issue and I also looked into various solutions and ultimately decided that for me, the best thing was one of the rolling engine hoists. I bought a HF 2 Ton engine hoist and use it for many tasks including changing my heavier lathe chucks, lifting my rotary table onto the mill, lifting heavy items onto my welding table and loading and unloading things from my truck. Even used it a couple of times for pulling engines ! It has been a pretty versatile tool, it folds up so it takes less floor space when not in use and it was very affordable. I made a set of shorter legs for it so that it can roll up closer to the machinery and make it more maneuverable in the shop. With the shorter legs I just make sure not to  extend the boom past the legs to maintain stability.

Just some food for thought.

Ted


----------



## tq60 (May 11, 2017)

Check out thrift stores and other sources of used medical equipment for hoyer lifts. 

These are hydrolic lifts used for lifting people out of beds and look like an engine lift but instead are small.

Have wheels and lift 400 pounds.

Sometimes can be had for free if the hydrolic pump is out and usually a 10 cent seal fixes it.

We have a few and the most expensive one was 20.00.

Great for holding things up for painting or many other tasks.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk


----------



## core-oil (May 11, 2017)

I appreciate Glenn's post on the application of the Skyhook crane in the railroad repair shop, It certainly seems to work for the guys,   Fair do's , & more power to their elbows, It would by all accounts seem to be run by dedicated , skilled, and careful folks, by the look of glenns splendid  illustrations, I wish I had one of these little cranes, I would certainly use it on my lathe to lift the chucks up, But Iwould make a quickly simple demountable attachment so I could use it attached to my lathe bed,  Over the years I had thoughts on something similar using my come-along, A 30 cwt yale, But it alone is a brute to move  Over the last year it has dawned on me,  Sadly, that humphing a heavy three & four jaw chuck up onto my big 16" swing lathe is becoming a thing of the past, Age & heavy weights catch up,
Sadly a low roof and restricted floor space precludes the use of a gantry, My method is, as it is not always possible to get help, is to leave the four jaw on the lathe & when an application of work necessitating a three jaw cchuck application, I clamp a five inch three jaw in the four jaw chuck.
  Often I am intriguued by lots of folks having a rosy glow about "The good old days" Really ?  When men were wracked to death moving inappropriate weights in workshop environments, working for employers who did not give a rats a**e for their welfare in many occasions, I love the fine machinery , tools, & other things in those far off days, But I think frequently of the guys who made them,
 Ain't advancing years fun!


----------



## Terrywerm (May 11, 2017)

I would never put my lathe (if I had a large lathe) through that kind of torture. I do like what Frank Ford did in his shop, you can view his write up here: http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Projects/MiniHoist/minihoist.html

Frank is a member here, by the way, so he may even be able to answer some questions about what he did if you only ask.


----------



## hermetic (May 12, 2017)

My point was that the whole thing hangs on the T slot in the cast iron topslide, which I have seen broken out on many machines with normal use. This is a Camlock machine, which means the crane has to lift just enough to free the chuck, any more and it is trying to lift itself up by its own bootstraps. Regardless of all the shared opinions, it is an accident waiting to happen.


----------



## randyjaco (May 14, 2017)

I have one and am very happy with it. I also made an adapter so the Sky Hook fits both my mill and my welding table. I am 70 years old and I have stopped lifting heavy items. I have never lifted anything with it more than 200#. I think if you actually analyze the stresses, the major forces are in compression,( if it's afixed properly) . I can assure you that my 13" lathe tool post  sees more stress taking interrupted cuts on stainless than it does lifting an 85# chuck. 

Randy


----------

