# Vintage unkown lathe spindle questions?



## angrybuddha (Dec 15, 2011)

Hiya,

first post since saying hello in welcome section, so hello again and thank you in advance for reading 




I picked up this old lathe for £60 on ebay and am looking for some info on sorting it out. It is unbranded and I have been unable to identify it, closest matches are on the links below. It has legs but awaiting whitworth bolts to set it up.

Page Title

Can anyone identify this lathe? - MIG Welding Forum


Quickly measured the run-out with a dial gauge and seems good but am at a loss with the setup of the headstock.

Have listed the parts on the photo's below by letter for easy identification. I presume through my limited knowledge that the spindle arrangement has some tapered bearings in brass bushes. I’d like some advice as am not sure how it is adjusted or stripped? Also think there is a part missing? I presume the lock nuts are loosened and spindle is pulled out towards the chuck end and the cone pulleys and bull gear slide off?





Obviously the lock nuts can be tightened but it doesn’t make sense to me as can’t work out how the bearings are pre-loaded in this arrangement?

There is also a thrust bearing (see third picture, labelled ‘I’) and the casting part ‘B’ threads on to the bearing journal (‘K’) as well??

The spacer part ‘H’ is fairly loose and moves up and down and the hole in the end of part ‘B’ is threaded so maybe there is supposed to be an adjusted for preloading the thrust bearing that threads in to the end of part ‘B’?

Also there is grease in the reservoir on top of main spindle bearing (chuck end of the spindle), is it supposed to be greased or oiled?

Any help or advice would be appreciated 
Many thanks

Ps – terminology is probably all wrong 

A – is an oil hole for the thrust bearing
B – cast part 
C – bearing journal – doesn’t rotate when spindle turned
D – single locking nut
E – double locking nut
F – brass part / maybe part of journal – moves / rotates a bit when spindle rotated
G – brass journal – doesn’t rotate
H – Hollow spacer
I – 3 piece thrust bearing
J – gear – key way onto spindle
K – threaded end of journal – onto which ‘B’ is screwed


----------



## Nammar (Dec 15, 2011)

Hi angrybudda,

I'm also new to this forum, so what the hell.

I have found a wealth of information at Tony Griffith's site http://www.lathes.co.uk. Look under the vintage area of his lathe write-ups and you may just get lucky in identifying your machine. I have come across some machines listed on his site that have flat bed ways, as yours does.

On the issue of oiling or greasing a lathe, lathes should never be greased. The grease just traps in the swarf and helps in the wearing out of the machine. Only use machine way oil on the slides and engine oil for the bearings. If you don't have any way oil, you can use a gear oil, as it tend to stick on metal surfaces and will protect the ways from rusting for a longer period than engine oil will. Gear oil can also take the punch with regards to the pressure exerted between slide ways, when under load.

The way that I would go about finding out as to how the headstock works is to take plenty of photos and then photo document each step of the disassemby, until you have a bucket of parts. On this vintage of machine roller or taper bearings were not commonly used. I'm pretty sure that the headstock bearings were made of phosphor bronze, were hand scraped to fit and are provided with shims to adjust the clearance of the bearings, but I may be wrong. I'm also pretty sure that the thrust bearings were also made out of phosphor bronze as well. Some lathes of this vintage had cast iron spindle bearings, as does my Southbend 9 inch. The SB 9 inch has a flat ball thrust bearing. In any case, you will surely find out when stripping the headstock.

My way of cleaning the slides and metal surfaces of old rusty machines is by using Scotch bright and oil, with plenty of elbow grease. The Scoth bright does not damage the ways and can be bought in different grades. Machines slides of this vintage were made by planing mills and the mating slides were hand scraped to fit. You may still find hand made frosting marks on the machine ways, which will be a good indication as to how much the ways have worn over the years. 

Your lathe  is a very nice candidate for a complete rebuild and paint job. You will most probably have to make up a sturdy angle iron base for the lathe to sit on and will also have to make up an arrangement to hold the flat belt horizontal drive shaft and motor above the lathe. 

Please keep the photos coming. I will be posting my Southbend 9 inch lathe rebuild photos soon.

Enjoy the rebuilding experience.......Geoffrey Owen.


----------



## angrybuddha (Dec 15, 2011)

Thanks for your input Nammar,

I have visited Tony's site and learned a lot of general things but can't identify my lathe from his database, general opinion from searching the web is that they made many unbranded lathes of similar design at a time and its likely mine is just another unknown.

Flat bed ways it has on top but underneath it is angled as to act like a dovetail, I am led to believe this is this common for British lathes and american lathes like the South Bend have triangulated bed ways? (if thats the correct term?)

Thanks for your tip on gear oil, I have some kicking about but no 'way' oil until I find a reputable source down this way 

It has a grease nipple on the headstock rear bearing (by rear I mean furthest from the chuck) am I write then in thinking that this is an after market mod added at a later date and it should have an oil reservoir instead?

I'm hedging by bets towards a kind of brass/bronze tapered cone bearing but only a strip will really tell unless someone else can enlighten us? If it was a shimed flat bearing, what would the locking nuts be for?

I don't want to strip it and find I have to get new shims or find it really hard to setup again unless I really have to for the time being. What do you think? Could I open pandora's box?

Am going to try to use electrolysis for cleaning up some of the parts but will try your tip on scotchbrite for the ways.

Got a mate to help me lift it onto its legs earlier and got it bolted up so its free standing now, pictures to follow in the morning!


Many thanks folks
Dan


----------



## angrybuddha (Dec 16, 2011)

Just been looking at some posts and found some interesting info.

If a lathe has bearing caps on the spindle bearings then it can have plain bearings and shim adjustment?
But what if it has a solid one piece casting as the spindle mount, i.e. no bearings caps, can it still have plain bearings and shims?

Any thoughts?


----------



## Nammar (Dec 16, 2011)

Hi angrybuddah,

It has a grease nipple on the headstock rear bearing (by rear I mean furthest from the chuck) am I write then in thinking that this is an after market mod added at a later date and it should have an oil reservoir instead? The grease nipple is defnitely incorrect. The oil dashpot should be as is fitted on the headstock chuck side bearing, presumably a spring loaded cap with a tiny resevoir for oil. The oil would leak out and run on the floor when the machine is not in use and this may be why the grease nipple was fitted. The older machines also tended to throw oil all over the place when running.

I'm hedging by bets towards a kind of brass/bronze tapered cone bearing but only a strip will really tell unless someone else can enlighten us? If it was a shimed flat bearing, what would the locking nuts be for? Having had another look at your photos, there is a roller thrust bearing in the casting sticking out the left side of the headstock. Taper bronze bearings would bind with the loading on a lathe spindle. The locking nuts on the spindle are where you would adjust the end play. It's quite difficult to see clearly how the adjustment is done, but defnitly no endplay shims. It's also difficult to work out how the spindle thrust is transferred to the headstock casting, but nevertheless, this should not pose a problem when stripping down. 

I don't want to strip it and find I have to get new shims or find it really hard to setup again unless I really have to for the time being. What do you think? Could I open pandora's box? Always remember that the old machines were built by logically thinking men and not rocket scientists.

Am going to try to use electrolysis for cleaning up some of the parts but will try your tip on scotchbrite for the ways. I use phospheric acid to clean rust off steel parts. A weak solution of phospheric acid will clean all rust off steel in a bath overnight, (Mix 20 to 1) but be very careful when trying to clean cast iron using phospheric acid. Phospheric acid will eat out the carbon from a cast iron casting and the surface goes to powder. Don't leave cast iron in phospheric acid for more than 10 minutes and wash it off with clean water, dry and oil immediately, to prevent flash rusting. The parts will come out looking as if they are sand blasted, so it's not recommended for anything with precision surfaces. Use paint remover to remove the unwanted paint, with normal safety and disposal guidelines for the use of these chemicals.

Another thing, about mixing acid and oil or an alkaline and oil, (the oil being mineral or vegetable, it does not matter,) this combination makes soap. I remember my grandmother making soap here in Africa, using animal fat dripping, caustic soda, some blue and some stuff to make the soap smell nice, all mixed together in a pot on a fire. Her bread baking pans were used as moulds. The soap worked as it cleaned us kids up in no time. If you have any oil that has dripped onto your garage floor from you car, batery acid cleans up the oil from the cement in no time at all, as well.

Geoffrey Owen.


----------

