# Precision Twist Drilll drills made in Brazil?



## itsme_Bernie (Oct 10, 2013)

I may not care as much that  my machines are pretty, but when I use a drill, I want to see two beautiful, equal, twisting chips spiraling out of that hole!  

I just purchased a new set of screw machine length fractional drills from a local supplier. Whenever possible I try to buy locally, from small businesses like my own.

All over the Cardboard outside box, it says "Made in USA".  Even on the Huot drill index inside it says "Drill America " "Made in USA":






When I slipped out a and looked at the drill bit itself, it clearly says "Brazil" on the side!





My local supplier is a good guy. He sells high-quality products. Frankly, it is clear these drills are really high quality. nothing like the horror freight stuff.

BUT It pisses me off seeing very blatant "Made in America" stickers all over this packaging, when the product is obviously manufactured in Brazil!  PTD has made really nice drills in the US for a long time.  I am sad they aren't made here, but PO'd that they still mark them this way.

I am off my soapbox now.  

Bernie


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## Uncle Buck (Oct 10, 2013)

Yup, that is a real wizzer. I bought a set like that a few years back. The Hout drill index is still USA made, just not the bits that it holds.


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## davidh (Oct 10, 2013)

ANd the sticker is probably usa made too. . .


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## george wilson (Oct 10, 2013)

Better hope the drills are better than the worthless Nicholson files now made in Mexico and Brazil. They are so soft,an old Nicholson USA made file will easily file off 1/32" of the surface of the new file,to well below the gullets of the file teeth.


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 10, 2013)

davidh said:


> ANd the sticker is probably usa made too. . .



That's right David! It's the STICKER that was made in the USA! Ha ha Ha

Actually I'm writing again to potentially "stand corrected".

The drills are definitely made in Brazil, and I really hope they are high-quality. They definitely seem like it upon first inspection.

But I believe now, that the "Made in USA" sticker DOES have to do with the Huot Drill index that the drills came in instead of the drill themselves.  The box itself belongs to the Huot Index as well.  

They were not purchased at a "discount price" either, so upon my inspection, and the price I paid, I'm going to assume that they are usual PTD Quality and I'll let you know when I've used them.  But they probably do not deserve the treatment with which I started this thread.

But I do still wish they were made inside United States borders, by United States workers.

Bernie


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 10, 2013)

The sticker is for the index, not what is inside. Huot puts that sticker on their all their Drill Indexes. 

 "Billy G"


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## genec (Oct 10, 2013)

USA= united south America :rofl::rofl:


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## AzizaVFR (Oct 10, 2013)

Through my travels all over Brazil, the only things that unite them are Soccer, Futsol, beer, and thongs.


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## Ozwelder (Oct 11, 2013)

In my country, Australia to place a made in Australian sticker logo on a product the manufacturer must satisfy the Government that the  manufactured product is truly manufactured here in Australia.
The logo a stylized green and gold kangaroo set in a triangle, has been used on Australian manufacturing products for 30 years or so. 

A consumer can immediately see if the product is of local origin. Its a true guarantee of authenticity.

Despite that a local drill manufacturer runs an advertisement through the buy Australian campaign featuring a worker  asking you to buy the product and keep in him in a job. The  very same company sells their bottom grade drill sets  clearly made in China but sans the logo. 

Its simply trading on a past Brand name where the quality is not often the same as it was.

Oz


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 11, 2013)

Well Oz

I think we need to do that here.  Sadly, we wouldn't see it many places anymore!!  

Bernie


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## Maxx (Oct 12, 2013)

I recently purchased a set of screw length Numeric PTD bits and like yours they are marked made in Brazil.


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 12, 2013)

Maxx said:


> I recently purchased a set of screw length Numeric PTD bits and like yours they are marked made in Brazil.



Thanks Maxx- 

I found that they cut really well.  I ordered the cobalt drills, which I do whenever I can afford it.  Two pretty, curly spiral chips!! 


Bernie


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## 4GSR (Oct 12, 2013)

Back in my younger years, "green behind the ears" I spent 6 weeks down in Brazil setting up some equipment the company I worked for sold to a place down there.  The biggest issue was getting decent cutting tools that would hold up to the heavy machining they were doing.  The country would not allow their people buy from the US or Great Britain if it was available there in Brazil.  We had to take what we could get in the way of carbide inserts that were available.  And to get the correct grade of insert we needed took months to get in.  I don't know if they ever got them or not, I have left to come back home.

I was shown some drill bits they used, they look like the ones that came from Japan back in the 1960's.  I would think in 35 years they have made considerable improvements in the quality cutting tools.

But I am also disappointed in American industry for not investing into new equipment set up here at home to continue manufacturing rather than sending it over to another country.


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## Maxx (Oct 12, 2013)

It's not so much the investment in equipment it is more to the cost of labor, dealing with unions, EPA etc.


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 12, 2013)

I think it is this "Walmart" attitude people have.

"I can buy that for $1.60 at Walmart"... Then pay people nothing, so they can only AFFORD to shop at Walmart.  

I know buying imported goods has allowed many people to own things they couldn't before.  But now people are not wiling or even aware of purchasing the higher quality item, made locally, which will last 5 times longer- or a lifetime!  

Then we would still be able to paying our workers more HERE.  I am not militant about it- I own a Toyota.  But it was built in California.  

I know this is going to sound insane, but buying hinges at the cheapest price possible isn't always the best long term plan for our economy.  


Bernie


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## flutedchamber (Oct 13, 2013)

george wilson said:


> Better hope the drills are better than the worthless Nicholson files now made in Mexico and Brazil. They are so soft,an old Nicholson USA made file will easily file off 1/32" of the surface of the new file,to well below the gullets of the file teeth.



I found that out the hard way.  I now have a two complete sets of Nicholson files that are good for scrap.  Foolish me, I thought Nicholson was still made in the USA.


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## fastback (Oct 13, 2013)

I also bought a set of Hout bits.  Like you I thought they were made in country.  My set is the 115, 118 degree jobber drill bits.  I paid $165.00 on sale from a local nut and bolt supplier.  The bits work well, but I feel duped regarding the Made in USA label.

I worked for a municipal government most of my career I can remember that in the old days on government jobs the bidder had to supply USA made materials.  Where did we go wrong?


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 13, 2013)

fastback said:


> I worked for a municipal government most of my career I can remember that in the old days on government jobs the bidder had to supply USA made materials.  Where did we go wrong?



Ex-ACT-ly.


Bernie


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## flutedchamber (Oct 15, 2013)

fastback said:


> I worked for a municipal government most of my career I can remember that in the old days on government jobs the bidder had to supply USA made materials.  Where did we go wrong?



The fair trade act was the beginning.


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 16, 2013)

flutedchamber said:


> The fair trade act was the beginning.



You mean NAFTA?



Bernie


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## cascao (Oct 16, 2013)

I never seen this drill bits here...there something more writed? An logo or something


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 16, 2013)

cascao said:


> I never seen this drill bits here...there something more writed? An logo or something



Hey cascao- do you mean PTD drills?



Bernie


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## flutedchamber (Oct 16, 2013)

itsme_Bernie said:


> You mean NAFTA?
> 
> 
> 
> Bernie



That be the one..


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 16, 2013)

I always wondered how that went over so well with the populace.

Whoops- I am starting to wonder if I have let (or led) my thread way off topic 
Sorry folks!  

Back to drills and tools!  

Bernie


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## savarin (Oct 16, 2013)

Its the accountants push for outsourcing.
My sister owns a publishing company in the UK.
Some years ago she outsourced all her printing to China at a huge saving.
The quality was at the level she required so she made the profits she wanted.
Lately she has been bemoaning the fact that the Chinese are putting their prices up and she cant find a printer in the UK for her work.
She wasnt very happy when I explained it was her fault for outsourcing in the first place. Now the Chinese desire more than a bowl of rice for wages the rest of the world gets annoyed.
When I asked if she was now looking to India for her printing she said yes.
This scenario is being played out in companies everywhere.
The profit margins obtained from outsourcing are transitory with the move to another country being required after a short while.
As the standard of living in those countries climbs products cost more.
The cycle then starts again in another country.
Lets look at recent history - Japan, Taiwan, Korea, china, now India. All of these countries produce quality products as good as anything at home but you have to pay a price very close to the home price for that quality.
Whilst we still insist upon a walmart economy at home we will always be flooded with cheap tat.
The old adage you get what you pay for is usually correct.


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## cascao (Oct 17, 2013)

itsme_Bernie said:


> Hey cascao- do you mean PTD drills?
> 
> 
> 
> Bernie



Yes but PTD mean nothing to me. This drils does not look Brazilian made.
Here most of the drils are Irwin, Dormer, Bosch...and this kind of companies always proudly put her logo in the stuff that they made
the cheap ones always come from China.
With Brazilian cost I thing is almost impossible to compete with China in US market.


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## Maxx (Oct 17, 2013)

cascao said:


> Yes but PTD mean nothing to me. This drils does not look Brazilian made.
> Here most of the drils are Irwin, Dormer, Bosch...and this kind of companies always proudly put her logo in the stuff that they made
> the cheap ones always come from China.
> With Brazilian cost I thing is almost impossible to compete with China in US market.


Precision Twist Drill is the company name or PTD for short.


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 17, 2013)

cascao said:


> Yes but PTD mean nothing to me. This drils does not look Brazilian made.
> Here most of the drils are Irwin, Dormer, Bosch...and this kind of companies always proudly put her logo in the stuff that they made
> the cheap ones always come from China.
> With Brazilian cost I thing is almost impossible to compete with China in US market.



Hey Cascao-

These are good drills!  I was saying from the first minute that they look high end, and I am not complaining about the quality.  So here's a +1 for Brazil made!  
And to be clear, these nice Brazil-made PTD drills are not even trying to compete in the low-end/China-made market.

My issue was with the packaging.  PTD is short for "Precision Twist Drill", and has made drill in the USA for a long time.  And it ends up I was mistaken, the Huot Drill Index was made in the USA, and marked clearly.  I ASSUMED this meant the drills inside, also because I know PTD used to mean made in USA anyway.


Bernie


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## cascao (Oct 18, 2013)

OK now things are more clear.
Looks like Dormer (Sandvik) acquired another brand.

You will be fine with this drills.

http://www.sandvik.com/Global/Inves...ts Day/Presentations/CMD 2001 Sandvik CTT.pdf

My concern was Chinese products labeled "Made in Brazil" :angry:


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## Dan_S (Oct 18, 2013)

Maybe it's just me, but does it really mater who makes it as long as it's priced appropriately for the quality? 

I mean I America makes just as much crap as any other country.


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 18, 2013)

Dan_S said:


> Maybe it's just me, but does it really mater who makes it as long as it's priced appropriately for the quality?
> 
> I mean I America makes just as much crap as any other country.



I don't think made in America always means quality, but it used to much more of the time.  And there are still companies trying to make it matter.  

I just don't want anyone trying to sell themselves dishonestly on that pretense.  I am completely clear on the point that these are actually good drills.  
Some of my reasons for wanting to buy things built here regard the economy etc, but I have digressed down that road enough in this thread, and don't want to more. 

I all for buying quality tools from anywhere, that's for sure!  It is just nice to buy from people being paid a living wage.  
Crap, I digressed again.  


Bernie


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## Uncle Buck (Oct 18, 2013)

Dan_S said:


> Maybe it's just me, but does it really mater who makes it as long as it's priced appropriately for the quality?
> 
> I mean I America makes just as much crap as any other country.



If I have a choice of one brand of tooling over another and really know nothing about either brand I will almost always choose the USA made brand as long as I can afford to do so. Generally I will still expect USA made tools and tooling to be better than most import stuff out there.


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 18, 2013)

Uncle Buck said:


> If I have a choice of one brand of tooling over another and really know nothing about either brand I will almost always choose the USA made brand as long as I can afford to do so. Generally I will still expect USA made tools and tooling to be better than most import stuff out there.



+1

Bernie


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## flutedchamber (Oct 19, 2013)

Dan_S said:


> Maybe it's just me, but does it really mater who makes it as long as it's priced appropriately for the quality?
> 
> I mean I America makes just as much crap as any other country.



Perhaps now we turn out more crap than we had previously, but at one time workers and companies had pride in what they made.  Perhaps that will happen again, but I don't know.  Thank NAFTA for that.

I look for US first, that is if it is made here.  Germany, Brazil, England, etc are all in the same boat as far as quality.  If it can't be found there, then I'll go to other countries that make tooling, but save China for last, and India just before them.  The quality of their tooling runs from OK to outright crap, and I don't like putting money in their pockets for personal reasons.


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 24, 2013)

I got my other set from my local guy here in NJ, and SOME of the bits are USA, and SOME are Brazil, mixed in the same set.  I can't say I notice the difference in their cutting ability.

So PTD is mentioning their standards in my humble opinion.


Bernie


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## unioncreek (Oct 28, 2013)

Technically they are Made in America, just that it's South America.   You can go by "Made in America" anymore, items can say that as long as they are assembled in the US.   Look at cars, Toyota builds cars that have more US made parts than any other make.

Bob


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## fastback (Oct 28, 2013)

Well I checked my Huot set and found that the fractional bits were made in the USA, but the numbered and lettered only indicated that they were HS.  So I don't know where they were made


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## george wilson (Oct 29, 2013)

I don't know where Irwin tools are made now,but in my opinion,I wouldn't buy them now. I DO have a real nice NOS set of Irwin drill bits that were made years ago. I also personally don't care for Vermont taps,commonly sold in local hardware stores. They are all carbon as far as I know.

Carbon is o.k. for occasional use. Some even like them as they are easier to get out of you break one off in a hole. I have no trouble milling out HSS taps with a carbide end mill,though. If you use alum,carbon is easier to dissolve.


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 29, 2013)

I get some Irwin Drills from Matco George. The package is marked Made in China.

 "Billy G"


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## Uncle Buck (Oct 29, 2013)

Irwin = China now.


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 29, 2013)

Hi Buck;

 Read this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irwin_Industrial_Tools

 "Billy G"


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## madmaxo (Oct 29, 2013)

cascao said:


> Yes but PTD mean nothing to me. This drils does not look Brazilian made.
> Here most of the drils are Irwin, Dormer, Bosch...and this kind of companies always proudly put her logo in the stuff that they made
> the cheap ones always come from China.
> With Brazilian cost I thing is almost impossible to compete with China in US market.



I'm not quite confident with that, there are many companies in Brazil exporting and getting tax refunds. The odd is that we in Brazil would pay at least 3x to 5x more for the same drill bit.

A couple of weeks I seen a guy in Brazil who bought some fuel injectors in USA for his Volvo. It was 1/3rd of the price in Brazil with import taxes and shipping costs. Once he opened the surprise "MADE IN BRAZIL" by Bosch...


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