# My adventures with my RF-30



## ARC-170 (Oct 27, 2020)

*2. UNLOADING*

I bought a used engine hoist on CL. My 15-year old son and I used it to get the mill out of the truck and onto some moving dollies.

I used some scrap blocks to get the strap to clear the plastic belt cover. I used a strap under the mill between the quill and column and another behind the column just to be sure. We lifted the mill up about 2" off the truck bed to make sure it was stable. I moved it by hand and it wasn't tipping so we moved the mill back and lowered it to the floor.

I used a 4x4 on this side, and another 4x4 underneath.



I used a block of wood on the other side to get the strap to clear the belt cover.



I used another block of wood to take up slack in the strap I ran on the rear of the column. I was not comfortable with just one strap, even though it balanced fine. Better safe than sorry, and the instructions show two straps.


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## ARC-170 (Oct 27, 2020)

*3. MILL TABLE DESIGN*

I need a table for this. There needs to be an access hole underneath to access one of the leadscrew nuts in order to lubricate it. *How big does the hole need to be?*

I've drawn an oval in the general area I think it needs to be. *Can someone tell me the minimum sizes for dimensions A, B and C?* If it's just a round hole, that's fine, I just want to know the size and location.


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## martik777 (Oct 28, 2020)

You don't really need an access hole. You can oil the leadscrew from the top. I just checked mine after several years and it's still covered in oil.


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## Aukai (Oct 28, 2020)

Congratulations


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## mickri (Oct 28, 2020)

Have you looked underneath the base?  On some of these you can access the nut from below and some of them you can't.  Mine is one of the ones that you can't access the nut from underneath the base.


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## Manual Mac (Oct 28, 2020)

The Y leadscrew on my RF30/31 clone (Grizzly G1007) can be oiled simply by lifting the chip guard rubber sheet & oiling it, the Y leadscrew is out in the open.
Maybe older machines cannot be oiled in this fashion?
The tag on my machine and also the motor lists mfg date of June 2004.


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## mickri (Oct 28, 2020)

On my Ecel EC30B which seems to be similar to the RF 30 manuals I found online the back of the nut for the Y access is at back edge of the table and the Y lead screw is exposed as you move the table to the front.  However to get to the fastener that holds this nut in place I have to remove the table.  The X axis nut is a pain to deal with.  It is sandwiched between the table and the base.  You can see it from either side and with a long wrench you can get to the bolts that hold the nut in place.  But you can't reach the nut with your fingers.  Plenty of access to lubricate the X lead screw because it is exposed on the underside of the table.

On mine to get to the X nut you first have to remove the X lead screw and then the table.  To put it back together is not simple.  There is nothing that holds the X nut precisely in place on mine.  I have to leave the bolts just loose enough so that the nut can shift into position as you screw the lead screw through the nut.  Once the lead screw is back in place I have to carefully tighten the bolts as I move the table from one side to the other.  Back and forth several times.  If I don't do this the nut and the lead screw will bind up.  On some models the X and Y nuts are adjustable.  Mine does not have this feature.

Attached are 3 manuals.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 28, 2020)

The nut on my RF30 clone is not adjustable for backlash but it is located with a pair of roll pins making reassembly fairly easy apart from having to try and cram my hand between the column and underneath the table to hold the nut and start the bolts. 


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## pontiac428 (Oct 28, 2020)

Congratulations, it looks like you've got a good one!  

@DavidR8 I thought all of the RF mills have trapezoid nuts to adjust backlash.  You could cut a slit in your nut then drill and tap for a pinch bolt, effectively converting it into a trapezoid nut.  That's an old trick.


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## Manual Mac (Oct 28, 2020)

I guess I am kinda confused?
Why do these machines need an access hole in the middle of the table.
I always thought some of these RF30 clones needed the hole to oil the Y leadscrew & nut.
My machine does not need the hole in the table to lubricate the Y or the X leadscrew or nut.
What am I missing?


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## mickri (Oct 28, 2020)

Manual Mac The hole is not in the table.  The hole we are talking about is in the top of the stand to gain access to the underside of the base.

Pontiac428 mine does not have adjustable nuts for backlash nor does it have any locating pins like Davidr8's.  Mine also doesn't have dials that you can zero.  Another difference is that it has 4 pulleys instead of 3 to change the speed.  The other big difference is how you engage the fine feed on the Z axis.  Most have a plastic nob on the outside end but mine has knurled sleeve between the outside end and the head to engage the fine feed.  So these machines are similar but different in many respects.  Why?  I don't know.


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## martik777 (Oct 28, 2020)

Maybe the differences are between machines made in Taiwan and China, Taiwan are considered superior quality.
I've never had an issue with my either the X or Y nuts from oiling just the leadscrew. Every few years I completely disassemble the X/Y tables, clean, inspect and re-lube.

When I first got the RF31 the spindle would heat up which was caused by dry grease on the 2 bearings. I simply cleaned and repacked them to solve the issue.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 28, 2020)

Mine is a 1980 LC-30 (Long Chang) made in Taiwan. 
MT3 spindle taper
I can't zero the dials
Non-adjustable nut
Knurled fine-feed sleeve
Three pulleys
Z-axis mechanism does not have a removable cover
Three bolts to secure the head, the middle one has a big hub with tapped holes similar to the down feed lever


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## Manual Mac (Oct 28, 2020)

Mickri, by table (with hole) I  meant the table (stand) that the mill sits on. Not the mill table itself.
Unfortunate use of words on my part.
Sorry for the confusion.
The mill stand I have is the heavy sheet metal one that many company’s sell for the RF-30/31. Came with the mill when I purchased it.
I will be building a steel one with adjustable feet. Been saying that for a long time but you know.....
I will be making it 2 or 3 inches higher than the supplied one which positions the top of the mill table to about 37.5”.
My X&Y lead screws are made out of bronze (or brass?), not cast iron.
The X screw is adjustable for backlash, finally figured out how to adjust it. 
ARC-170, congrats on your machine.
I use mine a lot,  & couldn’t be happier with it.
Cheers


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## martik777 (Oct 28, 2020)

1997 Taiwan RF30
Column bolted to base 1/2 way up instead of the bottom of base
40" table height, 3 pulleys, rear is not stepped after VFD conversion
R8
All Dials  zero 
$600 CAD with power feed + 2 clamps sets + angle vise -  purchased in 2013


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## DavidR8 (Oct 28, 2020)

martik777 said:


> <>
> Can't zero but added a sleeve + DRO's
> <>


I'd appreciate seeing a picture of the sleeves you made.


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## mickri (Oct 28, 2020)

Mine is an Excel EC30B made in Taiwan.  Don't know the year.
4 pulleys
Knurled fine feed
R8 spindle
Can't zero the dials and have decided that I like that feature.  It allows me to precisely position the table to a prior location.
Non adjustable nuts
3 bolts to secure the head.
Removable front cover plate.
Study stand on casters
I paid just under $500.  Don't remember the exact price.  No tooling other than a 15" Walther rotary table that would not fit on the table.  Sold the rotary table to a local machine shop for double what I paid for the mill/drill.


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## martik777 (Oct 28, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I'd appreciate seeing a picture of the sleeves you made.


Sorry, I misspoke the sleeves were on my sold RF25 but I found a photo.
Clamp the handwheel to the shaft with a setscrew and insert a washer/spacer between it and the notched dial


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## ARC-170 (Oct 28, 2020)

*3. MILL TABLE DESIGN (continued)*
I took a look at my mill and it appears I can lube the cross feed nut from the top. This is a view looking from the side of the mill at the back of the table. The nut is just visible at the left of the screw threads. I took the chip cover off.



I can see under the mill since it's on moving dollies and it looks like I might only need access to the cross feed nut if I ever replace it. I saw what looked like a horizontal screw on the bottom of this part that faces the rear of the machine and is in line with the y-axis, but it's not on the parts list at Grizzly.com for the G0705, which is, I think, the same mill.
A 3" diameter hole will be sufficient for that.

Here is the table design:


The mounting holes in the front of the base are at the front corners, but the mounting holes in the rear are about 3.75" in from the back. So I added another cross piece in the rear. I will drill holes in the front cross member and the third cross member from the front so I can have the bolts go thru the table, into the frame. The bolts will stick out the bottom.
I was not fond of just bolting the mill to the table top. It's going to be 3/4" plywood with a 16Ga steel top.


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## ARC-170 (Oct 28, 2020)

*4. MACHINE SPECS/FEATURES*
For the "roll call" of machines, you mentioned some specs and features I have questions about. Here's my roll call with my questions:
A. I believe mine is a Rutland Tools RF-30 clone based on the other one that was for sale with it that came out of the same shop and had the ID plate on it (mine does not). The motor on mine has a 2009 date.

B. Number of pulleys: I have 3. *I think I read that RF-30's have 3 and RF-31's have 4. Anyone know?*

C. Fine feed type: *how would I tell what I have? *Here's a picture of the down feed on my machine. I took the handles off:



D. Spindle type: I have R8

E. I can zero my dials. Here's a picture:


F. *What are these "adjustable nuts" and how do tell if I have any?*

G. *What is this "front cover plate" you are all referring to?*


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## mickri (Oct 28, 2020)

4 B  I have a manual for an RF31 and it shows only 3 pulleys. 

4 C  You have the typical plastic knob to engage the Z axis fine feed.  I'll take a picture of the fine feed on mine after dinner and post it later this evening.

4 F  The horizontal screw you mention in your post #20 is probably the backlash adjusting nut we have been referring to.  Look at the parts diagram in the RF 30 manual I posted above.  Look at part 15 on the last page.  On the G0705 parts list it is part #233.  You can see the adjusting screw head on the bottom of the part.

4 G  The front cover is an aluminum plate on mine that covers a hole in the head casting that allows you to lubricate the quill.  Your post #61 picture 3 in your previous thread is a good picture with the front cover removed on your mill/drill.


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## mickri (Oct 28, 2020)

Here is a picture of the knurled fine feed locking sleeve on mine.  Screw the sleeve in towards the head to engage the fine feed and screw out to disengage.  I found the dials on the X and Y to be accurate.  Not so on the Z axis.  One rotation of the Z fine feed on mine is supposed to be .090.  In reality it varies around .085 give or take.  Never the same and not consistent.


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## Manual Mac (Oct 29, 2020)

ARC-170, as I understand it the “adjustable nut” in question F is the X axis lead screw nut.
Facing the mill, look under the right hand side of the table.
You will see the X axis lead screw, & the block/nut that it screws into is what I am referring to.
It will be real oily/greasy (hopefully) and hard to see, as it is towards the center of the table.
If you move the table to the right it will be closer & easier to see.
The adjustable one will have a 4mm allen head screw on the nut. This is for adjusting the backlash.
The nut itself will probably be brass or bronze. I have read some have cast iron nuts, I do not think these are adjustable, but i’m not sure.
Cheers


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## ARC-170 (Oct 30, 2020)

4A. I think my machine is model Rutland #26660530. Rutland was bought by MSC awhile back. I looked on the MSC website and was able to find Rong Fu's, but that number returned ""3 Phase, 16-3/8" Swing, Step Pulley Mill Drill Machine" as no longer available. They don't seem to have any parts available, either. Incidentally, the alternative (a Rong Fu) retails for $2739, on sale for $2574.66.

4C. Yes, I have the plastic knob that screws in to engage the fine feed. Works well. Is one type better than another, or *are they all equally good, but just different?*

4F. It appears I have adjustable nuts. I've included some images.

My machine is on moving dollies, so I can look under it. This is a view looking up under from the front. You can see the back of the Allen bolt.



Here is the same thing except from the rear of the machine. You can see the Allen bolt.



Here is a view of the table nut. There is one Allen bolt on this side.



4G. *So the front cover is just the plastic cover over the z-axis screw, and the aluminum plate is that plate that has a sticker on it that unscrews, correct?*


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## DavidR8 (Oct 30, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> 4A. I think my machine is model Rutland #26660530. Rutland was bought by MSC awhile back. I looked on the MSC website and was able to find Rong Fu's, but that number returned ""3 Phase, 16-3/8" Swing, Step Pulley Mill Drill Machine" as no longer available. They don't seem to have any parts available, either. Incidentally, the alternative (a Rong Fu) retails for $2739, on sale for $2574.66.
> 
> 4C. Yes, I have the plastic knob that screws in to engage the fine feed. Works well. Is one type better than another, or *are they all equally good, but just different?*
> 
> ...


4G strictly speaking there isn't a Z-axis screw. The spindle is moved by way of a gear that rides in matching grooves in the back of the spindle.
So the cover is really only covering the front of the spindle.


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## ARC-170 (Oct 30, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> 4G strictly speaking there isn't a Z-axis screw. The spindle is moved by way of a gear that rides in matching grooves in the back of the spindle.
> So the cover is really only covering the front of the spindle.
> View attachment 342466



You are correct, sir! The part I'm referring to is called the "Depth Stop Assy" that attaches to the "Quill Clamp" and has the "Depth Stop Block" on it.


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## mikey (Oct 30, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> 4F. It appears I have adjustable nuts. I've included some images.



The mills made by Rong Fu have an adjustable nut like yours. When properly oriented, the Y-axis nut has to be accessed from underneath the mill or you will have to raise it up to adjust backlash. It would be wise to provide access from the bottom. The X-axis nut backlash adjustment can be accessed by cranking the table all the way to the left.

It is clear that the clones of the RF mills have differences.


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## ARC-170 (Oct 30, 2020)

*3. STAND (continued)*
I called the welder to see when could start on the stand and make sure the changes I made wouldn't cost any extra as he noted when we talked, but he said he forgot to include the material in the quote he gave me over the phone and the price was now $375. I have a call in to another welder, but I'm thinking a metal stand is going to cost a bit much. I thought the original $220 was pricey, but it was acceptable. He also told me the material was over $150 but I got quotes at a local metal supply place for about $100. I know welding isn't cheap, but I had something similar made a few years ago for $100. I can't find the name of the person though!

So, I designed another stand I could make out of wood. It's 4x4 posts supporting 2x4 cross members. Everything is bolted together with 3/8" bolts and nuts and washers. After seeing them load my machine in my truck supported by one 2x4, I think it's safe to build the stand out of wood like this.
In addition, I have 1/2" plywood panels screwed and glued to the outside. The bolt heads are installed flush so the plywood can go over them. I may even glue the 4x4's and 2x4's together. I will drill holes in the 2x4's to put the mounting bolts for the top in. The mill can then be mounted to the top. I plan to make the top at least 3/4" thick and may even double it up.
This design matches the rest of the garage (I built cabinets everywhere) and will help with any shear (think of the stand moving from a rectangle to a trapezoid).

I looked online for 2x4 load calculators and found one (http://www.timbertoolbox.com/Calcs/ddsimplebeam.html) that was easy to use that gave me a max load of 1130 lbs using "#2 Doug Fir-Larch" which is available at my local big box stores.

By the way, when I typed in one 2x4 for a 25" span and 660 lbs, the calculator indicated that this would hold without fail.

Here's a sketch of my design:


The mill rests on the top, so the load is spread out over the 4 posts and all the cross members, but the front and rear cross members are able to support the weight.

The depth dimension is driven by the depth of the mill base and location of the mounting holes, and the width dimension is driven by the width of the tool chest I'm putting under this.


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## Manual Mac (Oct 30, 2020)

ARC, look up instruction manual for Grizzly G1006/1007 mill drill. I believe this will pertain to your mill.
From your pics yours is pretty mush identical to my G1007. Mine says made in Taiwan in 6/2004.
Now would be a good time to buy a welder & a Harbor freight hand held band saw, they have the saws on sale often for $89. & I use mine often.
Prolly be a wash money wise instead of having one built. Just a wee bit further down the rabbit hole. And a 4-1/2 inch hand held grinder while U R at it.
If the wife complains, U can blame it on me.
Mikey I wonder why the sheet metal stand that most places sell with these mills don’t have the hole in them to adjust the Y leadscrew backlash? I guess cause not all the mills have adjustable screws. EDIT; also the tin top is designed to hold coolant, I forgot about that.
The stand I build will have that access for sure.
Cheers


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## mikey (Oct 30, 2020)

Manual Mac said:


> Mikey I wonder why the sheet metal stand that most places sell with these mills don’t have the hole in them to adjust the Y leadscrew backlash? I guess cause not all the mills have adjustable screws. EDIT; also the tin top is designed to hold coolant, I forgot about that.
> The stand I build will have that access for sure.
> Cheers



Yup, I agree that it might be because some of these mills do not have back lash adjustment. Mine does have that adjustment capability, and the stand that came with the mill has access underneath to enable that adjustment.


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## mickri (Oct 30, 2020)

Your wood stand will work just fine.  One suggestion is to extend the front and rear cross members out 8 to 10 inches from the base of the mill to support a wider top.  Since the mill base is directly over the side cross members there is no benefit to increasing the thickness of the top.  You probably don't even need the plywood.  The sheet metal top is all you need.   On 2x4's and 4x4's gluing the joints doesn't add anything. This size of lumber expands and contracts so much with normal humidity changes that over time the lumber will crack just outside of the glue joint.

For the side panels to be an effective sheer panel the fasteners should be spaced 4" apart.

I would consider adding one drawer and one shelf in the cabinet.


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## martik777 (Oct 30, 2020)

I had a metal stand with similar dimensions and was always concerned that it would tip over, especially with the X table extended to one side. I would make your wooden stand much wider to improve stability or add 2x4's extensions to the bottom


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## ARC-170 (Oct 30, 2020)

mickri said:


> Your wood stand will work just fine.  One suggestion is to extend the front and rear cross members out 8 to 10 inches from the base of the mill to support a wider top.  Since the mill base is directly over the side cross members there is no benefit to increasing the thickness of the top.  You probably don't even need the plywood.  The sheet metal top is all you need.   On 2x4's and 4x4's gluing the joints doesn't add anything. This size of lumber expands and contracts so much with normal humidity changes that over time the lumber will crack just outside of the glue joint.
> 
> For the side panels to be an effective sheer panel the fasteners should be spaced 4" apart.
> 
> I would consider adding one drawer and one shelf in the cabinet.



I can't extend the table out behind the mill, but I was planning on extending it in the front about 3" or so. It will probably be 36" wide, maybe 48" depending on if I keep some other stuff in the garage or move it.

Yeah, maybe the shear panels/side covers will be sufficient if I just screw them into the frame. No glue would allow for expansion and contraction. Although, maybe I should see if the glue will expand and contract with the wood.

I'm putting a side tool box I'm not using under this for storage. Otherwise I'd add drawers as you suggest.



martik777 said:


> I had a metal stand with similar dimensions and was always concerned that it would tip over, especially with the X table extended to one side. I would make your wooden stand much wider to improve stability or add 2x4's extensions to the bottom



I thought about that, but the mill is so heavy that it will be hard to unbalance. It's also bolted the top I could also bolt the stand to the floor. I could go 36" wide and the 2x4's would support 1,000 lbs. according to  the load calculator. Did you ever notice any tipping?


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## martik777 (Oct 31, 2020)

A good shove from the top would have tipped it over. I put extensions on the bottom to be safe


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## mickri (Oct 31, 2020)

Jeff I was suggesting making the top wider side to side.  Not extending it out the back or the front.  36" wide is wide enough.

Can the Y nut be rotated 180 degrees so that the adjusting screw faces back towards the column?  If it can then you might not need an access hole in the top.  You might be able to access the screw with the mill table moved to the front of its travel.

I have also been trying to figure out exactly how you plan to build the wooden stand.  So I did a drawing in sketchup of what I think that you intend to build.  I included the end cabinet in the drawing but not the stand top.  The stand on the left is 3 1/2" higher than the cabinet top.  The stand on the right is flush with the cabinet top.




Because the mill base is almost the same dimensions as the top of the cabinet the rear mounting bolts will go through the stand top.  The front mounting bolts will either go through the stand top or the front 2x4 depending where you place the mill on the stand.  If the stand is flush with the cabinet top as in the right drawing you will need to cut an access hole in the cabinet top.  On the other hand if you have the stand top above the cabinet top as in the left drawing you could cut out a small portion of the front 2x4 to provide access to the adjusting screw.  If it was me building this stand I would make the stand like the drawing on the left.

If the stand is going up against a wall you could fasten the stand to the wall to prevent the stand and mill from tipping over.


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## Manual Mac (Oct 31, 2020)

I just measured the base on my stand. The sheet metal one that so many places sell for the RF30/31 type mills.
It is 23”wideX24” deep at the base. It is very stable.
I will be making a new stand for it, I can buy 20’ of  2”x2” .187 angle for about 25 bucks.
Thinking 24”X24” by 30” high. This would put the table top at about 41” or so.
With adj feet & a shelf or two.
Wood would work fine for a stand, but I usually build things like these out of steel.
Any thoughts on this?


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## mickri (Oct 31, 2020)

The stand for my mill/drill is made out of 2x2 angle iron with 2x6 douglas fir top and casters.  It is stout.




I did a drawing for an angle iron stand to fit around Jeff's end cabinet that I posted in his other thread.


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## ARC-170 (Oct 31, 2020)

martik777 said:


> A good shove from the top would have tipped it over. I put extensions on the bottom to be safe



I was curious about this so I extended the table as far to the right as I could and stood my 165 lb. weight on it. The machine didn't budge. I had to jump up and down to get it to move even a little.


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## ARC-170 (Oct 31, 2020)

Chuck/mickri: Hopefully these detail views will explain it a little better:




The red is the tool chest. The silver dot is the lock and the recessed area is the drawers, which I didn't draw. There is a little clearance between the top of the chest and the bottom of the 2x4's. I was going to counterbore the holes for the nuts in the bottom of the 2x4 so they didn't stick out the bottom.

I drew just the base on the top. The front machine mounting holes can either be lined up with the front 2x4 or just behind it. In either case, the rear mounting holes don't line up with anything; they'd go thru the top.

The machine rests on the front and rear cross members only, not the side 2x4's.


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## FanMan (Nov 1, 2020)

My Jet 15 (same as an RF-30) came with a stand bent up from steel plate.  Sorry for the bad picture, it's the only one I could find.  I don't know its origin, it came with the (used) mill, but it's very stable.  No feet, the ends of the angle rest on the floor, so I sandwiched some squares of 1/2" thick rubber under the legs.

We didn't have much trouble unloading it... the stand was just  about the same height as my pickup bed, so we just put the stand just inside the garage door, slid it off the truck onto the stand, bolted it on, and then slid/manhandled the whole thing into position.

The tray (which is highly recommended, it's a drip tray from the local auto parts) just sandwiches in between.  I don't remember how I lifted the mill to slip it in but I don't remember it being a big deal.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 2, 2020)

After all this I decided to go with a metal stand. I think wood would work, based on what I've seen here and elsewhere, but I just have this vision of the wood giving way one day and all hell breaking loose. I thought of designs that use angle iron and bolts, but by the time I get the metal and a cut-off saw (even used), I'm close enough to a welded stand anyway, and there were little issues with the fitting of all the pieces of the designs I thought of. It just seems safer to go with a welded metal stand.

I found another welder who seems more professional and was very clear with me about what he was going to do and how much it would cost. He offered to put feet/mounting brackets on all the legs and also cap the ends of the front and rear cross members. He was less expensive than the other one, too.
I cancelled a trip, so I'm using the money for the stand. Also, it just seems safer and sturdier.
I'm going to have to figure out what rattle can color matches my mill. I'm not going to cover up the stand; I'm paying for it, may as well show it off!


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## ARC-170 (Nov 7, 2020)

*3. STAND (conclusion)*

I got the stand and painted it (couldn't find a close enough match to the machine, so I used stain black) and added the top and back, then mounted the mill to the stand.



I need to finalize the exact location then drill holes for the anchor bolts.

The top and back are 3/4" MDF with a 16Ga cold rolled steel top. I painted the edges satin black. I used grade 12.9 14mm SHCS's (200mm long), washers and nylon insert locknuts to mount the mill. The back is secured to the stand through the rear cross member with four 1/4-20 bolts, nuts and washers.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 7, 2020)

Looks great!


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## ARC-170 (Nov 7, 2020)

Now that I have the mill mounted, on to the rest of the machine. I'm starting at the top and working my way down.

*5. PULLEYS

A. TOP CAP*
The top cap on the column was on crooked. *Do I just tap it back on straight with a hammer? *It holds the gear rack in place.

*B. IDLER PULLEY*
I took off the idler pulley. The bolt was easy to unscrew and I was able to pull the pulley off by hand very easily. Has some black dust on it. Bearing rolls fine. *Anything else I should look for?*



*C. SPINDLE PULLEY*
I also removed the spindle pulley. The nut is a left hand thread (loosens by rotating clockwise), then I was able to pull it off by hand with a little effort. Also has some black dust and the bearings work fine. *Anything else I should look for?*

There is some sort of black fuzz/powder/string in the pulley cover area. *I'm assuming this is normal and comes from the belts?*


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## DavidR8 (Nov 7, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> Now that I have the mill mounted, on to the rest of the machine. I'm starting at the top and working my way down.
> 
> *5. PULLEYS
> 
> ...



B.5.A yes. Loosen the set screw before tapping the cap down. 

If everything is smooth then you’re in good shape. 
There is a chance that the spindle drive beating could use a replacement but that can only be determined with measuring tools. 


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## ARC-170 (Nov 7, 2020)

*5. PULLEYS*

The various manuals I've downloaded call for different size belts: A30, A33, B33, B33 and B34 for one and A38, A39, B41 and B42 for the other. The ones my machine came with are B33 and B40.

For those of you following along, belts come in a few flavors:
3L, 4l and 5L are used on lower HP applications, like fans.
A, B, C, D and E are used on machinery. An X means they have cogs on the inside. They are 1/2", 5/8", 7/8", 1-1/4" and 1-1/2" wide at the top.

Depending on which particular machine, you'd need A or B belts.

*D. What sources do you use to buy belts? *It looks like one of mine came from Napa Auto.

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These machines are metric so it surprises me that they don't spec out metric belts.
SPEC (width at top)
SPZ (10mm)
SPA (13mm)
SPB (16mm)
SPC (22mm)
*E. Does anyone use metric belts? Where do you buy them?*

_Edit: I just checked McMaster-Carr. Metric belts are about 10x the price of regular ones!_


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## DavidR8 (Nov 7, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> *5. PULLEYS*
> 
> The various manuals I've downloaded call for different size belts: A30, A33, B33, B33 and B34 for one and A38, A39, B41 and B42 for the other. The ones my machine came with are B33 and B40.
> 
> ...



My machine has a B34 and a B41. 
Works just fine. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pontiac428 (Nov 7, 2020)

B-series link belt works, too.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 8, 2020)

*5. PULLEYS*

A. The top cap went on with no problem. Not sure why it was crooked in the first place. I put the one set screw that hold it on by the rack.
B. & C. I took these off, cleaned them up and put them back on. I did not tighten the retaining nuts much at all. I used a smooth-jaw pipe wrench to just barely snug the big nut on the spindle pulley down after tightening it by hand. I turned it very little, maybe 1 degree; just enough so it's just barely more than hand-tight.


D. Looks like Napa has them.
E. There appears to be no need for a specifically metric belt, since inch sizes are readily available and work. They are even spec'd in the manual, even though these are metric machines.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 8, 2020)

*6. PULLEY COVER*

I have a plastic cover. I cleaned this up with a vacuum (the pulley dust was fine, black powder) and Simple Green. The goo from the nameplate came off with acetone. I may make another one, or leave it blank. 
I was going to remove it, but I'd have to disconnect the wires from the motor, but they all were in excellent shape so I saw no reason to.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 8, 2020)

*7. QUILL & DOWNFEED MECHANISM*

The downfeed mechanism needs to be removed to remove the quill, so these were done together. Here's what I did in case anyone needs to do it:
1. Either tighten the quill clamp, or lower the quill so it touches the table. If you don't, it might fall.
2. Remove the 3-arm lever. Take the 3 lever arms off. Don't lose the key.
3. Remove the downfeed assembly: unscrew the two bolts holding it to the head casting.
4. On the other side remove the torsion spring and cover. They are one assembly.


Unscrew the SHCS. The parts will not go flying off. I put a flat blade screwdriver in the square holes to release the tension help by the little roll pin that engages the gray cover. The spring will unwind. I was concerned that the parts would go flying, but that was not the case. I wore safety glasses anyway.

5. The spring is held by a screw that goes in a notch in the spring. You'll have to wiggle and rotate the assembly to disengage it from the screw. I shined a flashlight in there so I could see what I was doing.


This image shows what you will see when you are trying to do this.

6. Remove the screw, check to make sure the quill is not going to fall, then slide the downfeed assembly out sideways to the right (as you face the mill).

7. Once you have this out, take take the depth stop assembly off. You also need to remove the screw to the lower right of the torsion cover. This screw rides in the slot on the quill to keep it from rotating. It also can keep it from going down/falling out. Then lower the quill and remove it. You might have to raise the head to get enough clearance.

8. Remove the quill clamp at the bottom. I had to gently tap mine off with a hammer after loosening the bolt. I tapped it down. There is a rubber ring on the quill. Mine is a little beat up, but Grizzly only sells it with the quill assembly and Jet was out of stock. I cleaned it up and re-used it.

9. I then cleaned everything with a soft plastic bristle brush, rags and Simple Green. The only marks on the quill were from the quill clamps.

10. I did not replace any bearings. They rolled smooth and had no noticeable play. I'll check them out again when I get the whole machine cleaned up and running, though.

11. I reversed the process to reassemble everything. I rotated the torsion spring almost one whole rotation counter clockwise with the quill up to re-tension it.

12. Notes:
a. The quill was not as easy to move when it got to the top of its travel. This may have to do with the spring tension.
b. The SHCS on the spring tension housing doesn't need to be tight; it seems to work better when it is backed off a 1/4 turn or so.
c. When properly installed, the fine feed engagement knob doesn't need to be turned much at all to engage/disengage; a 1/4 to 1/2 turn does it.

*8. LUBRICATION*

I used NLGI #2 lithium/moly grease and Mobil Vactra #2 way oil to re-lube everything. The gears and spline got the grease and the sliding parts got the oil. This is per the Grizzly manual. The older Chinese ones don't have any specifics, but the Grizzly manual does.

The NLGI spec refers to the consistency of the grease; #2 is like peanut butter (higher numbers are harder) and is used for highly loaded gearing. I used general purpose grease. Look for the NLGI spec on the container.


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## PhillT (Nov 8, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> E. There appears to be no need for a specifically metric belt, since inch sizes are readily available and work. They are even spec'd in the manual, even though these are metric machines.



My version of this machine is hybrid imperial-metric, even to the point of the grub screws being imperial threads, but metric hex key heads.  The quill raise & lower spokes are imperial threads where the knobs screw on. The bolts holding the column to the base are metric, as are the feed screw threads.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 11, 2020)

PhillT said:


> My version of this machine is hybrid imperial-metric, even to the point of the grub screws being imperial threads, but metric hex key heads.  The quill raise & lower spokes are imperial threads where the knobs screw on. The bolts holding the column to the base are metric, as are the feed screw threads.



Mine is too, I've discovered. The bolts for the idler pulley plate are 5/16", as are the ones holding the dust cover. A 12mm socket fits them better than the 1/2", though.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 11, 2020)

*9. TABLE AND X-AXIS SCREW REMOVAL*
This came off fairly easily. I unscrewed it all the way to the right. It's very heavy! Everything looked good. I cleaned it, re-oiled it and set it aside. It took some scrubbing to get off the paint in the ways. There was lots of swarf stuck in the paint, so it had to come off. The casting is very rough, so it was a chore to scrub it, wipe, scrub, wipe, etc...

*10. SADDLE AND Y-AXIS SCREW REMOVAL*
Once I had the table off, this came off easily as well. I had to take off the handle and the front flange (that's what it's called in the parts list) so I could unscrew the brass cross half nut off.

I cleaned all the grease off the screws and out of the half nuts. Everything looked really good. There was lots of old grease and "varnish"-looking "stains" that came off with acetone, Simple Green and scrubbing with a blue Scotchbrite pad (the non-abrasive one).

Here's a picture of the table after I cleaned it.



*11. REASSEMBLY OF TABLE, SADDLE AND LEADSCREWS*
This was not as easy. Did I mention this is heavy? Both the table and saddle with the leadscrews in place feel like they weight over 150 lbs. The half nuts need to be put back on so they line up properly with the screws, then they need to be tightened down. But, in order to so this you need access to the bolt heads, which are covered by the screws when the parts are assembled. So, I used my engine hoist to hold these up while I tightened the bolts on the X-axis (longitudinal) half nut, which are accessible form beneath. I was able to take out the gibs to give me some play to allow me to maneuver the saddle over the cross half nut so I could get the bolt in. Sorry, I don't have pictures.

*12. HANDWHEEL REASSEMBLY* The hand wheel collars are held in place by pins. These were easy to get out, but they needed to go back in the same orientation; apparently the holes only line up one way.

*13. GIB REINSTALLATION*
The gibs can be screwed in. I thought these were just to keep them in place, but it seems they also tighten and loosen how easily the ways move. One way was really tight, but I loosened the bolt and it was much easier to move.

*14. LOCK SCREW INSTALLATION*
There are little brass cylinders about 1/16" thick that are at the tip of the lock screws. They are easy to miss and they fall out real easy. I'm lucky I found them. I put a dab of grease on them when I reassembled them so they'd stick to the tip of the screw. They can be screwed in with the lock screw.

*15. LUBRICATION, Part 2*
The ways and leadscrews all got Mobil Vactra #2 way oil. They had some sort of grease on them that I cleaned off. It was a translucent orange-ish brown. The manual calls for oil so that's what I used. The handles had ball bearings that can be lubed via ball oilers. I squirted some oil on the bearings than assembled everything, then squirted some more oil in the ball oilers.
Everything works really smooth and easy now.

*16. ALMOST DONE*
Here is the mill so far. I still need to clean the motor housing and see if I can clean some oil that got behind the clear housing on the switch plate.



Next:
-Finalize the location of the mill and bolt it to the floor.
-Mount the vise and take a few test cuts. But, first I need to take the vise apart and make sure everything is fine on that. I called Kurt and they said there will be a model number cast on the bottom of the vise. It has a tag, but all that is readable is the stamped serial number. The dimensions match the Kurt D50 vise. 
-DRO's. The front cover plate is not on the machine. It's broken and I'm going to make a sheet metal cover for the DRO anyway.


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## Manual Mac (Nov 12, 2020)

My idler plate screws are the same, I keep the plate snug, (but not tight) & do not loosen them when I move the motor to change speeds, which is often.
I will experiment with a DI for lining the head up when moving up or down.
I have always used a vertical line laser with a plumb bob tied with string to a magnet attached to the garage door 25’ away. I can get it very, very close this way. But not exact.
Arc I like your stand. Very tidy.
What height did you settle on for the top of the mill table?
Cheers


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## ARC-170 (Nov 12, 2020)

Manual Mac said:


> Arc I like your stand. Very tidy.
> What height did you settle on for the top of the mill table?
> Cheers



It's 37" from the floor to the top of the table. I built the table around the red tool box under it. It's a HF side box that's just under 34" tall. I left a little clearance for the mounting bolts, then there's the 2" cross member of the stand, then the 3/4" MDF top with the 16 Ga steel sheet. I'm 6'-2" tall so the height is just fine for me. I have to stand on a stool to change the belts, but I figured I'd have to do that anyway. The belt cover also hits the garage door rail and my surfboard. I can move the surfboard, but I still need to adjust the position of the mill so I can open the cover all the way.


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## mickri (Nov 12, 2020)

What's your favorite surf break?  My son traveled the world on the pro surf tour for 15 years after winning 3 national amateur titles in high school.  He now works in marketing for Reef Sandals.  At one time he had over 40 boards in the garage.  I don't surf.  Sailing was my passion.  But I spent a lot of time on the beach at his contests.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 12, 2020)

mickri said:


> What's your favorite surf break?  My son traveled the world on the pro surf tour for 15 years after winning 3 national amateur titles in high school.  He now works in marketing for Reef Sandals.  At one time he had over 40 boards in the garage.  I don't surf.  Sailing was my passion.  But I spent a lot of time on the beach at his contests.



Hmmm, that's a tough one. I have fond memories of lots of places. I learned in Santa Cruz (I actually took a class!) and like Steamer's Lane, O'Neil's and Pleasure Point. I then lived in Long Beach for awhile and surfed Huntington and Seal Beach. I even surfed in Hawaii on my honeymoon. I now go to Ventura, County Line and a few other random spots with friends who know way more than I do. I'm about an hour away from the beach now so it's about 3 hours of time to go. I need to teach my kids so they can come. I'm not very good; I have an 8'-6" single-fin "fun board" and prefer 2'-4' waves. I think if I was a stronger swimmer I'd like the bigger stuff. I've been stuck inside on the big stuff  (8'-10' faces) and it scared the $h!+ out of me.
That's awesome about your son! What a cool experience. What's your son's name? I got a coworker who was a pro for awhile, maybe they know each other. BTW, I loved my Reef sandals. I had the ones with the bottle opener and actually used it a few times. The front strap broke and I hurt my toes one too many times so I went to wearing Sanduks. Tell Reef to make some closed-toed footwear that's as comfy as the sandals!


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## mickri (Nov 13, 2020)

Do a search for Mike Losness.  You will get lots of hits.  He hasn't surfed competitively now  for about 8 years or so.  His oldest boy started standing up at Doheny last summer when he was 4 years old.  Already knows how to swim.  Be interesting to watch how Bennie does.  There must be something in the water in San Clemente.  It is a never ending hot bed of world class surfing talent.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 21, 2020)

*17. BOLTING THE MILL STAND TO THE FLOOR*
This was pretty easy. I located the mill where I wanted it, then drilled thru the holes in the mounting brackets that are welded to the mill using a hammer drill. I then tapped the anchors in and secured them. Make sure to put the nut at the top of the bolt and tap gently. It should go in fairly easily. I did one hole, bolted it, then another and so on. I had to put a sheet metal shim under one since the mill rocked a bit.

*18. VISE*
I got a Kurt vise included when I bought the mill. It's an A50/D50. I've documented the disassembly and cleaning here for those of you who are interested. I bought new mounting studs and bolts, since the other ones didn't match and that bugged me. One of them was also starting to crack. Got them at McMaster-Carr. Ordered them Friday evening and they arrived Saturday!




Next: tramming the mill and getting the vise square, then taking a test cut or two.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 22, 2020)

*19. TRAMMING AND VISE ALIGNMENT*
The tramming and vise alignment went surprisingly well. Only one corner of the table was off by 0.0015" and that was over 27". I was able to get the vise aligned to within 0.0015" as well. It moved a bit whenever I tightened the bolts. Drove me nuts.

I used a DTI that reads to the nearest 0.0005". I placed it on a rod extending at right angles in the mill, locked the quill and moved the table to the far left and right, back and front and watched the indicator.

I was expecting it to be off more based on my LMS 3990 being off quite a bit. I had to add spacers under the column on that mill. *I wonder if I missed anything?*


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## mickri (Nov 22, 2020)

When I aligned my vise I discovered that the fixed jaw past the screws was off by .001 on each end.  The jaw between the screws tracked spot on.  Talk about frustrating until I figured this out.  When aligning the vise tighten one bolt fairly tight such that you have to tap the vise with a hammer to move it.  The other bolt only needs to be snug, not tight.  You want to be able to move the vise.  As you move the DTI across the fixed jaw keep lightly tapping the vise to bring the DTI to zero.  Should only take one pass to align the vise.

When I trammed my mill I marked four spots on the table one for each of the four bolts in the same pattern if that makes sense.  I put the DTI in the quill and measured each spot.  Zeroed the DTI at the highest spot.  Then measured the other 3 spots.  This gave me how much I need to shim each of the lower spots to equal the highest spot.

Another interesting way I read about tramming a mill was to put a piece of soft copper wire around each bolt and spread thickened epoxy between the column and the base.  Then carefully tighten each bolt until you got equal readings on the table.  The epoxy will ooze out of the joint.  Let the epoxy cure for a couple of days.  Kind of similar to bedding a rifle action into a stock.  If you don't want to glue the column to the base you should put mold release wax on the surface of the column and or the base.

You should be able to get both the vise and the column trammed to less that .001.  Being off by .0015 is too much.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 27, 2020)

*19. TRAMMING & VISE ALIGNMENT, REVISITED*
I re-did this. I put the belt on the pulley to keep the DTI from rotating as it was dragged across the vise. I also made sure to tighten the head, vise and spindle bolts and locks.

The vise is now dead on; the DTI hardly moves at all, so it's within 0.0005" or less.

The table is within 0.0005" at the 4 corners. I made sure not to move or touch the DTI when I was taking the measurements. I did have to rotate it when I moved from one one of the table to the other. I rotated it using the pulley so as not to disturb the arm holding the DTI. I also rotated it and took measurements at various points on the table and the DTI didn't move more than 0.0005". I repeated this several times and got the same results.

*A. Is this typical?:* I noticed that if I tightened the top head bolt, the head "nodded" about 0.0005", then when I tightened the bottom head bolt, it nodded back the same amount. 

*B. I'm wondering if I should do it again a different way to see if the results are the same?*


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## mickri (Nov 27, 2020)

Way to go Jeff.  Not unusual for the head to move slightly when the bolts are tightened.  My head has three bolts.  I had read somewhere shortly after I got my mill to tighten the center bolt first before tightening the top and bottom bolts.  Try setting the head height based on the Lazy Machinist's longest tool methodology.  Since I did that I have not had to move the head on my mill.  ER collets have the most wiggle room to help with changing tooling.  A drill chuck has the least when you get to larger size drills and you can't use it for milling anyway.  Easier to stick with the ER collets.


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## Manual Mac (Nov 27, 2020)

If the head is back to zero when the bottom bolt is tightened, I say no harm, no foul.
Kinda like life, a series of trade-offs.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 7, 2020)

I'm making some parts for the DRO for this mill with this mill. The dials have some slop in them, but once I take that out, they are giving me the correct dimensions to within 0.001" or so. The z-axis dial has a really wide indicator notch so it's hard to get it exact every time. The y-axis handle was moving when I was making cuts, so I had to tighten the gib screw. Everything else worked really nice. I was taking 0.040" cuts in aluminum with a 5/8 diameter cutter. That leads me to this question:

*MAXIMUM CUT
20. What is the maximum cut this machine can make? *My LMS3990 would take 0.025" cuts in steel with a small diameter (1/4") bit. I realize the answer will depend on the cutter, lube, speed, etc, but is there some guidance for this machine?

*DUST COVER
21. Does this need any grease?* It had a glob of it. I had this cover/anti-dust plate/spindle cover (not sure of the name, the parts diagrams I have list several different names), come loose and get grease all over me. I didn't even know this was a part that needed to be taken off and cleaned; I missed it when I was cleaning the machine. The spindle rotates the same direction as this part unscrews, so I had to tighten it down just more than finger tight to get it to stay.

This is a view looking up at the spindle.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 8, 2020)

*22. DO I NEED A OILING ACCESS HOLE HERE?*
I've made a cover for the front to replace the old one, which is broken (I'm attaching a DRO, but that's another story). Does it need an oiling hole so I can oil the quill? I can oil the quill when it's down, but like the idea of oiling it at the top so the oil drips down. I've circled the area for the hole in pencil on the sheet metal. Thoughts?


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## mickri (Dec 8, 2020)

22.  I regularly oil mine from the top.  I take the cover off to do that on mine.  But yours is different from mine.  Make the hole big enough so that you can oil both the outside of the quill and also the inside shaft that spins.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 30, 2020)

*22. DRO's

X-axis*
Here's a close-up of how I attached the rail to the table. I just milled a block and bolted it to the table and bolted the brackets to the block. The thru-holes are a little oversize to allow for adjustment.

I don't have a decent image of the bracket that holds the reader to the table. It's a piece of sheet metal I bent and cut slots into. The slots allow for some adjustment. I mounted the reader and the rail, then used transfer punches to locate the holes for the sheet metal bracket. The holes are slightly oversize to allow for adjustment.



I use a piece of aluminum "L" as a cover.



*Y-Axis*
Here is the overall design.



Close-up of how it's attached. This is at the rear, but the front is the same. The slots in the rail brackets allow for adjustment as do slightly oversized holes in the mounting brackets (shiny aluminum pcs).



Close up of how it's attached to the table. I made the reader holder out of aluminum, assembled the holder to the reader and then located the mounting holes by using transfer punches. The holes were only slightly oversized for adjustment purposes, since the slots on the brackets allowed for adjustment.



*Z-axis*
I used an idea I found on this site. This is the way it was done:



Here is mine:


I attached mine with nuts and bolts to the cover I made. You can see them in the upper right and lower right (barely). I made a speed chart and used a magnet to attach it. The hole if for lubing the shaft. It came in handy for making sure the wire cleared the spindle.


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## Shotgun (Jun 30, 2021)

I put my X travel DRO on the back of the table as you did.  I don't like it.  The reader get crunched against the column, bending the end brackets, and costing me about 3/4" of travel.  I'm trying to figure out how to move it to the front in a way that it can live with the power feed stop switch.

Have you had any problems with it living back there.


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## ARC-170 (Jul 2, 2021)

Shotgun said:


> I put my X travel DRO on the back of the table as you did.  I don't like it.  The reader get crunched against the column, bending the end brackets, and costing me about 3/4" of travel.  I'm trying to figure out how to move it to the front in a way that it can live with the power feed stop switch.
> 
> Have you had any problems with it living back there.


It does limit travel. It also gets squished by the chip cover, which is not really as flexible as it could be. Mine is really just plastic sheet. I may move the vise so I don't need to move the table back as far.
I have a motor feed on my x-axis, too. I just live with it and try to keep it in mind whenever I make anything.


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## MOUCHRA (Jan 9, 2022)

mickri said:


> Here is a picture of the knurled fine feed locking sleeve on mine.  Screw the sleeve in towards the head to engage the fine feed and screw out to disengage.  I found the dials on the X and Y to be accurate.  Not so on the Z axis.  One rotation of the Z fine feed on mine is supposed to be .090.  In reality it varies around .085 give or take.  Never the same and not consistent.
> 
> View attachment 342277


Hello Mickri, mine looks very similar and I am having trouble after assembly with it traveling downward.  It slips pass 2" or so and sometimes it does not engage with the shaft that turns the quill.  Not sure if I assembled it the correct way or in the correct order.  Do you have any advice on assembling the fine feed?  Here are some pics of mine, the worm gear does not match the one depicted on the Rong Fu-30 manual:


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## mickri (Jan 9, 2022)

I have not had mine apart.  So can't help on the assembly.  Also I have never been able to find a manual for mine.  Found some that are close but still a little different.

This guy may be able to help you out. http://scotthull.us/dp/shop/index.html.  He rebuilt his excel mill drill.  His website is still up but doesn't appear to have been updated in 20 years.


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## MOUCHRA (Jan 9, 2022)

Thank you Mike.
I found a few minutes ago the manual for mine (attached).  This matches the worm gear (page 14) and other components.
I will try to reach out to your recommendation.


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## mickri (Jan 9, 2022)

Thanks for attaching that manual  It is just like my Excel.  Got it downloaded and save on my computer.


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## CRTurboGuy (Feb 3, 2022)

ARC-170 said:


> Here is mine:
> View attachment 349330
> 
> I attached mine with nuts and bolts to the cover I made. You can see them in the upper right and lower right (barely). I made a speed chart and used a magnet to attach it. The hole if for lubing the shaft. It came in handy for making sure the wire cleared the spindle.



Would you mind sharing that speed chart?


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## ARC-170 (Feb 4, 2022)

CRTurboGuy said:


> Would you mind sharing that speed chart?


Not at all!  I've attached it. PM me if that doesn't work and I'll email it to you.


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