# Heavy 10 project



## woodtickgreg

This is my first post other than an introduction. I have been searching for a used lathe to use for my tool making and who knows what else. I was hoping to find a nice workable logan and was looking for a few months. I work as a truck driver for a roll forming co. in the detroit area, one day on one of my deliveries to a shop that I go to all the time I was told to go upstairs to talk with the owner. Now this is a very old building in the heart of detroit, when I was up there I saw this old lathe tucked away in a corner surrounded by a ton of old machinery and other junk. So I asked, do you want to sell that lathe? He said I dunno, it's not mine, I have been storing it for a friend that lives out of state but i'll call him and see. A week later he said I called him and he will sell it, it was his fathers and he passed away and has no use for it, how much I said? He wants at least $500 for it. Can I look at it closer? I didn,t even know what brand it was as I couldn't get close to it, sure he said. As I aproached it I saw the large spindle bore, climbed around to the front of the lathe and saw it was a south bend! Oh happy day! Ways not damaged and in good shape, tail stock is there and functions smoothly, missing belt cover and bull gear cover is broken, handle for back gear eccentric is broken, But other than that it's all there and in good shape! original 3/4 hp 3 phase motor too. everything moves except the back gear and I think I can free it up. $500?.....I'll take it! Do you guys think this was a good deal? I will post pics as I go along with the refurb on this. Another question that I have is it looks like it has a collet chuck? Can I just remove the collet chuck and mount a 3 and 4 jaw chuck to this spindle or do I have to change the spindle shaft?


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## bcall2043

woodtickgreg said:


> ...........Can I just remove the collet chuck and mount a 3 and 4 jaw chuck to this spindle or do I have to change the spindle shaft?



Greg,

Welcome to the group. The answer to your collet question is yes. The grooved collar with spanner wrench holes on the spindle should unscrew and push the collet adapter out of the spindle. Once the adapter and collar are removed the threaded spindle can accept a threaded face plate or chuck assembly of the correct thread size.

Great find and good price.

Benny


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## Splat

It's funny how things happen, don't it? Nice find, Greg, and welcome to the fold! No other tooling, chuck, etc. came with it? Even still, if it's in good shape and just needs a cleanup ya did good.


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## woodtickgreg

Splat said:


> It's funny how things happen, don't it? Nice find, Greg, and welcome to the fold! No other tooling, chuck, etc. came with it? Even still, if it's in good shape and just needs a cleanup ya did good.


Thanks, nope no tooling and believe me I looked around for anything I could find. I do plan to go through this machine and buy the rebuild manual and kit off of feebay. I think I may change out the motor to a 220 single phase rather than run a converter but not sure what horse power to run. But I will save the original motor if I ever want to put it back in. I still have to figure out what the spindle thread and size is. And I do want to get the serial card from grizzly. And I also plan to repaint it, seems like it is just primed or a flat paint now. Gonna be lots of elbow grease on this one, but I love these kinds of projects. Take something old and make it new again. Nothing like old american iron.


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## Benji

Your lathe was shipped, Midyear, 1949. One of the last with the cast iron base. 
You have large dials on both the cross feed and the compound. 
Check the cross feed dial. It may have 200 divisions. If so you have one of the latest dials. 
I have a 42, came with small dials. but with a set of collets by 1/32's. I paid $800.


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## woodtickgreg

Benji said:


> Your lathe was shipped, Midyear, 1949. One of the last with the cast iron base.
> You have large dials on both the cross feed and the compound.
> Check the cross feed dial. It may have 200 divisions. If so you have one of the latest dials.
> I have a 42, came with small dials. but with a set of collets by 1/32's. I paid $800.


Wow, Thanks for the info! How did you find out all of this stuff? Is there a source for this info? Any way to determine what the spindle size and pitch is? Sounds like I have a good find. The more I learn about this lathe the more I think I need to do a full restore on it. I was going to just make it a user but now I think I will restore it. But the time it's going to take to do it is a bummer and I need to use it, Oh well it will be worth it. It is still in my truck, I am going to clear a space to work on it in my basement shop and a friend is going to help me get it out of the truck and in the basement. I will pull the underdrive unit and motor out of the base to lighten it a little. I really do appreciate your info on my lathe benji !


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## woodtickgreg

I started taking the base apart for inspection and painting, cleaned up and blew out the motor, it spins freely and has no play. The good thing is that the base and the lathe as well has onlt 2 coats of paint, the original and some one sprayed the whole thing with grey primer. Chemical stripper should work fine. I don't want to sanblast the base so sand doesn't get in the bearings of the underdrive shaft, it spins freely and doesn't make any noise or have any play, so I won't have to mess with it much, just clean up the pullys. The door and the 2 side covers, the chip pan, and the end legs I will probably sandblast. A quick inspection of the ways shows no wear at all and no nicks or dings! I cant believe the condition of the ways, a little oil and a fine buffing pad and they will clean right up. I do not think this lathe has seen much use at all. Oh and a quick look at the hand wheel dials shows 100 divisions.


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## Splat

Get the refurb kit and proper oils on Ebay. The refurb kit and the oil pack are both good buys. I bought the kit and the oil pack and have been steadily refurbing my 1957 Heavy 10. The refurb kit has all the  felt wicks you'll need, good instructions and pics, and the oil pack is contains the oils recommended for your lathe. I wouldn't run that lathe until at least knowing the condition  of the wicks, especially the wicks under the spindle.

From your  lathe's serial # it is a large-bore spindle, 2-1/4x8. It looks like you've got a collet adapter in your spindle which, IIRC, will take up to a 1" 5C collet. You would remove the collet closing sleeve and the nose cap/protector to put a chuck on the spindle.  I would suggest getting a 4-jaw chuck for your first chuck. The 4-jaw is more adaptable to different shaped workpieces and allows you to dial in parts better than a 3-jaw. 

 For more info on your lathe, and various other South Bend info, visit Steve's site http://www.wswells.com/ and also the Heavy 10and Heavy 10 files Yahoo groups.


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## hardhatdiver

woodtickgreg,

Just a note if you haven't done so already. When you remove the collet adapter, use a long piece of aluminum rod (or other soft metal, but aluminum is cheap) from the rear of the spindle. Don't use a piece of steel. Hold the adapter with your hand and knock it from the back. A few smacks should pop it out, and the thread protector just spins off. They can get fairly tight after being used a lot and staying in the spindle. I've been using the same aluminum rods for years on my 10L and 16" and just keep them with the lathes.

Regards,
Jeremy​


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## woodtickgreg

Thanks for the info guys! I do plan on doing a restoration sort of, mostly I am going to get the rebuild kit and manual and replace all the wicks, Inspect all the parts as I go and replace as neccessary. The problem I have with the paint that's on it is some idiot just sprayed the whole thing down with what looks like primer, overspray on everything, some parts are rusty and I want to clean everything well. The bed and headstock I will probably hand sand a little to even things out, wipe down with denatured alcohol, and brush on some paint. The ways look amazing! Drip pan, base, and legs I will probably spray. The bearings in the jackshaft assy in the base are in great shape, removed the belt and motor and gave em a spin and it spins a long time on it's own and makes no noise, no end play or up and down play either.
 Etard, yep the bed is a little short for some, but it will fit well in my basement wood shop/work shop, the tag on the end of the machine says 3 1/2 foot bed.
Splat, Thanks for the tips, I do plan to get the proper oils, did you get your oil pack from the same guy that sells the rebuild kit and manual? I did find steve's site. The collet closer popped right off when I removed the coller, self releasing, measured the spindle and it is 2 1/4. I do plan on getting a 4 jaw scroll chuck first as my main use of this lathe will be for 1/2 square 304 stainless steel stock for the wood turning chisels I make for wood turners. And that is also why the large bore and short bed work for me. I really don't think this lathe saw much use, or it was cared for very well untill it was warehoused and forgot about.


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## hardhatdiver

woodtickgreg said:


> The collet closer popped right off when I removed the coller, self releasing, ...



There's that too! I've just never bothered to buy a spanner for my lathes, but that's the better way to do it. Guess I figured yours didn't come with one either. Probably should invest the $20 from Graingers one of these days and use the aluminum for something else. Can't wait to see how your lathe cleans up.

Regards,
Jeremy


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## woodtickgreg

Splat, I ordered the rebuild kit with manual and the oil pack also, I might get them by friday or early next week. I guess I better get busy stripping and prepping for paint!


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## Splat

woodtickgreg said:


> Splat, Thanks for the tips, I do plan to get the proper oils, did you get your oil pack from the same guy that sells the rebuild kit and manual?



I got the oils from Bluechipmachineshop on Ebay. Click on the link I provided in my previous post and it'll take you right to the auction for the oil pack.



woodtickgreg said:


> wood turners. And that is also why the large bore and short bed work for me. I really don't think this lathe saw much use, or it was cared for very well untill it was warehoused and forgot about.



Don't worry so much about the "short bed", as some guys might call a 3.5' bed. That large bore will help out significantly, unless you do *big* diameter pieces.


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## woodtickgreg

etard, I will probably get both a 3 and 4 jaw chuck, 4 jaw first as I need to turn square stock to round. I'm thinking 6" will probably be just fine.


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## woodtickgreg

Well a friend came over today and helped me get the lathe out of the truck and into my basement, set it up on saw horses and started to tinker with it a little. I pulled all the covers off for an inspection and got everything to turn freely by hand, gearbox works, back gear works, and bull gear engages and disengages freely, all a good sign. I ordered the rebuild kit and manual off of feebay, the 4 oils in a kit, and I am in the negotiation stage with a seller for a belt cover and back gear eccentric and lever assy, as mine is broken off, it works but the lever is broken off. I still need to find a small bull gear cover as that is broken also. The pedestal for the switch mount was broken and I had it tig welded for free from one of the weld shops I deliver to for my work. I have 5 parts loaded into my car for taking to a media blaster. The pedestal I will chemicaly strip as I do not want to get sand and grit into the bearings, I don't want to take it apart if I don't have to. If I give the pully and shaft assy in the pedestal a spin by hand it spins for a long time and makes no noise and has no play, If it aint broke don't fix it. So I am making progress and having a blast doing this, very exciting! The ways show absolutely no wear at all! This lathe must not have seen any commercial use. The ways will probable clean up with a buffing pad and some oil, amazing what I did to them with just my finger. Maybe I'll try some flits or something like it.


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## woodtickgreg

So today I took some parts to the media blaster, door for base pedestal and both covers for the same, legs, on/off switch mouunt, and drip pan. All were blasted with aluminum oxide, I dropped them off and 4 hrs later they called and they were done, I will pick up tomorrow and get some pics to show how they came out before I prime them. Deals were made on ebay for some parts and I might see them next week.
So as I have been tinkering with this thing and waiting for the rebuild kit and manual to come and as I have been cleaning and inspecting a thought came to mind.
 If I remove the headstock to refinish and paint the bed will I have any problems with realigning the headstock. I wouldn't think so as there only appears to be 2 bolts and the v ways would hold it in alignment when it's reinstalled. Is this correct???


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## Rick_B

On mine - the headstock had two bed clamps (front and back) and a dowel pin in the bed that the hedstock sat on for alignment.

Rick


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## woodtickgreg

Rick_B said:


> On mine - the headstock had two bed clamps (front and back) and a dowel pin in the bed that the hedstock sat on for alignment.
> 
> Rick


Thanks for the reply Rick! I kinda thought from looking at it that it would hold it's alignment when reinstalled. It will be much easier to strip and prep the bed for paint without the headstock in the way.
I picked up the parts from the media blaster today and they look great! I'll try to get some picks this weekend. I got the oil pack of ebay today and the felt rebuild kit and manual, Looks like I have some reading to do! The step pully belt cover and back gear lever should be in next week. Making progress and moving along, albeit slowly.


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## Splat

I was worried about headstock alignment and didn't want to pull it off. After more reading I decided I did pull the headstock. Mine too, sits in the V's and has the alignment pin in the way bed. There is not movement whatsoever after I put the headstock back onto the bed. hew:  You should be ok.


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## woodtickgreg

I found a media blaster near me that did some stuff for me, I had 6 pieces blasted with aluminum oxide and they came out great! The chip pan has a few extra holes in it that I am going to weld up and grind smooth before painting. The previous owner drilled and mounted some crummy looking fixtures that I am not going to put back on. I circled the holes to be filled in with weld.


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## woodtickgreg

This is what some of the other pieces look like after the same blast treatment, raw metal and not primed yet. You can see some of the porosity of the cast metal, I am not going to fill it, I am refurbing this lathe to be a user, not a museum piece. the primer and paint will fill it good enough. It was good enough 60 years ago! LOL


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## woodtickgreg

Here's a few picks with 2 coats of primer and 2 coats of paint. Paint and primer is rustoleum professional in a rattle can. I have used this paint with good success on other machinery refurbs. Not to glossy and builds well, dries quickly, and in the top left pic you can see how the primer filled the porosity. Looks even better after 2 coats of paint.


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## woodtickgreg

I chemicaly stripped the pedestal base for 2 reasons, to damn heavy to move around and transport, and I did not want to get grit from the media blaster in the bearings. The bearings are in great shape! I did have to apply the stripper twice, First application removed most of the paint and the primer that the previous owner sprayed all over the machine. The second coat more or less softened the factory paint and I just scraped it off with a sharp putty knife. As you can see the stripper did not remove the red oxide factory primer, that's just as well as there is really no need to remove it. I then wiped it down with a scotchbrite pad and mineral spirits, that's what you see in the bottom pics. I will sand it with a random orbit sander with 100 grit and maybe 150 before priming and painting, I don't want to sand it to good or it wont match the other pieces. LOL


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## ScrapMetal

Looks great so far.  I'll definitely be watching this one come together.

Thanks,

-Ron


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## Splat

woodtickgreg said:


> Here's a few picks with 2 coats of primer and 2 coats of paint. Paint and primer is rustoleum professional in a rattle can. I have used this paint with good success on other machinery refurbs. Not to glossy and builds well, dries quickly, and in the top left pic you can see how the primer filled the porosity. Looks even better after 2 coats of paint.



That's a machinist's clothesline right there.


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## woodtickgreg

Splat said:


> That's a machinist's clothesline right there.


Actually it's an old cable dog run, that's why it could support all that weight! Funny though:lmao:


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## woodtickgreg

So I got the chip pan back from the weld shop, I had the holes that the previous owner drilled in it tig welded up. finish ground with a angle die grinder with 50 and 80 grit. wiped it down with denatured alcohol.


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## woodtickgreg

Once I had everything wiped down I gave it the same treatment as the other parts, 2 coats primer and 2 coats of paint.


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## woodtickgreg

At the same time I sanded the pedestal base with a random orbit sander with 150 grit and wiped it down with alcohol also. Like the other parts 2 coats of primer and 2 coats of paint.


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## woodtickgreg

I let all the parts cook in the sun for a couple of hours and then moved them into my garage/kiln, gets really hot in there during the day. as you can see I also dry hardwood lumber in there. I'll let this stuff cure for about a week before I move it into the basement for assembly. Next job is to strip and prep the bed for the same treatment.


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## Benji

When I did Nelsons SB DP head I put a 100W light bulb (incandencent, not CFl) that got it nice and hot. 
I would think a couple of them in the bell would help.


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## woodtickgreg

Benji said:


> When I did Nelsons SB DP head I put a 100W light bulb (incandencent, not CFl) that got it nice and hot.
> I would think a couple of them in the bell would help.


When the garage is closed up it gets anywhere from 100 to 120 in there in the summer, Think how hot it gets in a closed up car.


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## Benji

My garage is just the opposit. 

Its a garage under, One side is in the ground, one side is a basement wall. 
The basement has 3 sides in the ground. On a hot day, today was 92, I am at about 75 in the garage if I keep the doors closed. If I open them I get ambiant temperature. 

Free Air conditioning.


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## woodtickgreg

I finally got some time to work on the lathe again. Here are some pics before I started to tear it down, you can see the primer overspray that the previous owner sprayed all over everything. And a pick of the only damaged gear that I have found, leadscrew drive gear, and I already have the replacement from ebay! You can also see the rust on the spindle cone pully and one little spot that I hit with some 320 sand paper as a test. I think I will clean the pullys up before I tear it down so the headstock can hold it and allow me to rotate it.


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## woodtickgreg

Here's a few more pics, the compound base still has the scrape marks, the threading dial was very rusty but it cleaned up pretty good. I do think I will need to find a new gear for the threading dial, it looks quite worn and does not always engage with the lead screw. Also a couple of pics of the ways right by the headstock, In the pic they look rusted and pitted but they are not that bad, it's mostly just a discoloration. A light sanding with some 600 grit and some oil and they clean right up. There are a few small nicks on the back way, judge the size of the nicks by the pencil point for referance.


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## woodtickgreg

Everything came apart on the teardown without a hitch, taper pins popped right out, leadscrew gear came right off, back gear came out, all gear assemblies came off without any trouble at all. So I proceeded to clean up the spindle cone pully before I removed the spindle assy. I scrapped most of the rust off easy peasy with a razor blade and then sanded the pully surfaces with 220 and then 320 sand paper. I think the cleaned up very nice. I don't think I really need to sand any finer as the belt might slip? The belt will probably polish the surfaces with use any way. Here's a couple pics of the progress so far.


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## woodtickgreg

Everything has been going so good, almost to good? And then I found a surprise when I pulled the bearing caps for the spindle. I have never seen anything like this, the original sleeve bearings are gone and someone replaced them with the half bearings you see in the pics. 2 things come to mind, either it was a repair for bad bearings or possibly an upgrade, or both? I will say this, there was absolutely no play in the spindle and it turned smoothly. But drilling and tapping the cast headstock and bearing caps to secure the bearings with screws? I do not know what to think about this. My first thought is look for another headstock and replace it, but I am not so sure this repair is a bad thing, there are shims still being used and cappilary oil wicks are still in place, no grooves or signs of wear either on the bearings or on the shaft. They did call these old lathes engine lathes and the repair is very much like a crankshaft bearing replacement. The oil return holes are not obstructed. I would like to here the opinions of others on this. Run it as it is? or replace it? Here's some pics.


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## woodtickgreg

Well I found a replacement head stock complete with spindle, cone pullys, and bull gear, complete with bearings and caps and the bearing adjusters. I should get it sometime next week. In the mean time I have kept busy with stripping the bed of all it's mechanicals and did a quick clean up on the ways, they look really good. Here's some more pics of stripping the bed and prepping for paint. After chemicaly stripping I went over it with a die grinder with a wire wheel to remove the stubborn bits. It cleaned up really well, then I masked off the ways in preperation for painting.


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## woodtickgreg

Last week I recieved the new used headstock assembly. The seller did a great job packaging it and even made a wooden crate for it to go inside the box and bolted it down to the crate. UPS just sucks, the box arrived with 2 corners blown out and the crate which was well constructed completely smashed, boards broken, and one bolt fell out of the bottom. The only thing that was holding the box together was the plastic bands that the seller put on it. I was a little nervous when opening it and feared the worst but all was well, the only damage to the part was one oil cup is smashed and not really usable, I have another to replace it. One good thing I noticed right away was that it is very oily, and that could be a good thing and show that it was oiled regularly. Last monday I injured my arm at work and I could not carry this 75# part down into my basement, so I asked my wife to dolly it down, she did but complained all the way down. My progress is going to stop for a couple of weeks as I have to have surgery on tuesday to repair my ruptured bicep. Good thing I took pic's of the work I did last week. Am I boring everyone with this rebuild or should I keep posting?


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## woodtickgreg

Last weekend I painted the bed also but I did not post the pic's as I wnted to wait for the paint to dry and remove the masking tape and paper. I also painted the lettering on the bed and the cast iron access door, I think it looks better with the letters painted. When I stripped the paint I found red paint in the original layer and on the letters so I repainted it the same.


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## Splat

That's pop'n, Greg. Almost too pretty to use. Almost.   Good job!


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## ScrapMetal

That does look sharp!  Nice call on the paint colors.

-Ron


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## woodtickgreg

So some of you may know that I had a work injury, ruptured bicep, had surgery to reatach it and I'm home rehabing. I'm out of comishion for 4 to 8 weeks so I havn't made any further progress on the lathe. So since I don't have any progress pics to share I thought I would show the copy of the serial number build card I got from Grizzly. Grizzly is now handling parts for southbend and you can get a copy of these cards for your lathe. Some good info is on these cards, seems that mine spent it's whole life in the Detroit area, built in 1949


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## Flatfendershop

Nice work Greg! Looks great.  You will like the underdrive, its a  good compact design.  I have a 10K which is an underdrive, its a little tough to get into sometimes but once you get it set up there's not much that needs to be accessed in the cabinet other than a periodic clean and some oil.


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## woodtickgreg

Good news! The doc has given be the green light to do a little light work in my shop. he said it would help with the rehab. So I guess I can tinker a little, maybe clean some parts, maybe a little painting. I think I can get a friend or two to help start with the rassembly of the bed, pedastal, and legs. Woo hoo! Mostly working one handed.


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## Old Iron

Greg glad to hear your doing better with your shoulder. I've been following your rebuild and its looking great. When you get it done you'll have something to be proud of.

Paul


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## woodtickgreg

So my first order of buis after getting the ok to do a little light work was to purchase and put together a shop cart. I needed one anyway and this would be a good test to see what I can do at this point in my rehab. It went well and I loaded it up with all the parts I need to refurb, kinda cool, when the carts empty I'll be done. Everything is tagged and bagged except for the large bits.


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## ScubaSteve

Lookin good! You seem to be savvy to SB's and their quirks. Glad you figured out the taper pins, those can be hell to remove if you put them in wrong (ask me how I know)! There's plenty of info out there on refurbing/restoring, especially for the heavy 10's. BradJacob over at PM did a real nice restore on his lathe....definitely an inspiration. I guess I missed the part where you needed a new headstock....was it because of the modified bearings? If you got a reasonable price on the second headstock, that might come in real handy down the road as you get some wear and tear. All in all you came out with a hell of a bargain, the name South Bend seems to add $1k to the price tag, even if it is a clapped out machine. The scraping on your compound is great. SB and other makers from that era were known to make changes quite frequently so it can be difficult to know whether something was done at the factory or by a PO. One thing I never knew is that "flame hardened ways" weren't done until sometime after the 60's....and they are ground, not scraped. But, that's not to say that scraping was done on everything prior.....some lathes were scraped, and some were not...kind of erratic for such a large company, but I guess it was according to what options the customer requested. I had a 1919 SB 14" lathe that actually had cast iron ways, not scraped or hardened, but they were hell for stout and I could barely make a mark on them when cleaning up with a scotch brite.


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## woodtickgreg

ScubaSteve said:


> Lookin good! You seem to be savvy to SB's and their quirks. Glad you figured out the taper pins, those can be hell to remove if you put them in wrong (ask me how I know)! There's plenty of info out there on refurbing/restoring, especially for the heavy 10's. BradJacob over at PM did a real nice restore on his lathe....definitely an inspiration. I guess I missed the part where you needed a new headstock....was it because of the modified bearings? If you got a reasonable price on the second headstock, that might come in real handy down the road as you get some wear and tear. All in all you came out with a hell of a bargain, the name South Bend seems to add $1k to the price tag, even if it is a clapped out machine. The scraping on your compound is great. SB and other makers from that era were known to make changes quite frequently so it can be difficult to know whether something was done at the factory or by a PO. One thing I never knew is that "flame hardened ways" weren't done until sometime after the 60's....and they are ground, not scraped. But, that's not to say that scraping was done on everything prior.....some lathes were scraped, and some were not...kind of erratic for such a large company, but I guess it was according to what options the customer requested. I had a 1919 SB 14" lathe that actually had cast iron ways, not scraped or hardened, but they were hell for stout and I could barely make a mark on them when cleaning up with a scotch brite.


Steve, I did end up finding another headstock with the spindle, cone pully, and bull gear. I paid $90 for it. I have not had the chance to tear it down yet but I don't think I will have the surprise I had in the first one. I don't know if it would have ran with those goofy bearings but I just couldn't see the capilary oil wicks working with them as there was a groove cut in the center of them, I just want to keep it as close to original as I can. And as far as cast iron being hard? I agree with that too! I am really having fun with this project, and it should come out nice and be a great user. I just gotta get a couple of friends over to help me assemble what I have done so far, Only got one arm as of yet. I wanted to get a couple of parts painted today but it stormed, maybe tomorrow. So far I think I have about $800 into it total, with the rebuild book and kit, and several parts that were missing or damaged. I'm gonna estimate $1000 or less for the whole project by the time its done. I think I'll get a couple of small items yet just to spiff it up, and more paint! After I get the bed, base, drip pan, and legs assembled it's on to the gearbox, everything in the gear box works, just replacing all the wicks and giving it a good cleaning and paint.


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## woodtickgreg

I finally got some work done on the painted parts, a friend came over and held everything in place for me so I could get it bolted together. This gives me a good foundation to work from now. I am still limeted in what I can do with one arm, but as long as I don't over due it the doc encourages me to work my hands. I also got the very heavy original 3 phase motor installed in the base while I had the help of my friends muscle. Still need to clean the pullys and install the v belt and adjust the tension on it, but I can do that on my own now. Next thing to do is tear down the gearbox and repaint and install new oiling wicks. The gear box has to go on before the head stock as their is a mounting screw you can't get to after the head stock is installed. Here's a few pics of todays progress.


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## rw1

Really looking great Greg!  They are a labor of love , one can feel good about what they accomplish -- keep at it and be safe!


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## ScubaSteve

Those ways look great....what did you use?


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## woodtickgreg

ScubaSteve said:


> Those ways look great....what did you use?


The ways and everything else were either covered in gray primer or a coating of oil and crud. To remove the paint I scraped them with a new razor blade first then wiped them down with acetone. final clean up was with some 600 grit sand paper, didn't take much and they cleaned right up. They showed almost no wear, no grooves. No sign that the ways were ever scraped, not even under the headstock. Some people may not agree with using sand paper on the ways, but I assure you it was very light just to remove very light surface rust and gunk mostly. The razor blade and acetone removed 90% of the gunk. There was little if any metal removal in the clean up.


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## ScubaSteve

Good to know. Yeah, some people would cringe at that...copper chore boys and brass brushes are good too, but i guess for that " one time" cleanup a very fine grit sandpaper is okay, as long as you clean the grit off very well. Otherwise its like lapping compound once mixed with oil. Still, it looks nice...and probably pretty darn accurate for hobby work, I dont care what anyone says.


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## woodtickgreg

ScubaSteve said:


> Good to know. Yeah, some people would cringe at that...copper chore boys and brass brushes are good too, but i guess for that " one time" cleanup a very fine grit sandpaper is okay, as long as you clean the grit off very well. Otherwise its like lapping compound once mixed with oil. Still, it looks nice...and probably pretty darn accurate for hobby work, I dont care what anyone says.


I look at it like this, how many people find a piece of machinery of this age with absolutely pristine ways? I would venture to say very few. Almost any machine of this age is going to need some clean up of the ways, no matter what you clean it with to remove any rust, and their will be some, you are going to have to use an abrasive something. even brass brushes or copper pads will remove some metal with the rust and grunge. My ways although needing a good cleaning are very sharp edged and angular, no wear grooves where the saddle rides. Look at the pics when I started this thread, I took a close up pic of the ways and they were not bad. I belive that cleaning them the way I did was the way (excuse the pun) to go. Lets say your lathe was very rusty, would you give up on it? I wouldn't, I would do the best I could, maybe as far as having everything reground or scrapped. I am sure there are lathes out there in far worse condition than mine being used in shops daily for production work. Sometimes I think people put to much into having a perfect machine. I have even consulted with a machinery rebuilder on this very same topic, the old south bends will hold a tolerance even with some significant wear, which mine does not have. Even though I intend to use this lathe, like all my tools, I want it to look good. I don't like using crummy dirty tools. Anybody that thinks that a 60+ year old lathe isn't going to have some wear of the ways is kidding themselves. jmo


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## ScubaSteve

I hear ya. I can't stand a messy workplace....disorganization gets in the way of efficient progress. Obviously, when you're using a tool, you're gonna make a mess. But, once chips or sawdust or whatever piles up, you take a quick break and clear the debris. At the end of the job, wipe down your lathe, table saw, or whatever tool you're using. 

I do the same thing in the kitchen....it's called cleaning as you go, and it really reduces cleanup at the end....like to zero. 

I've gotten into the habit of cleaning up at the end of each day I do something in the garage...even if the project is still in progress. When I come back to it, I can think clearly because I don't have a pile of tools and debris to contend with. Plus, I just like to look at a clean and well cared for machine. It's like a car; somehow it just drives better when it's clean


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## woodtickgreg

ScubaSteve said:


> I hear ya. I can't stand a messy workplace....disorganization gets in the way of efficient progress. Obviously, when you're using a tool, you're gonna make a mess. But, once chips or sawdust or whatever piles up, you take a quick break and clear the debris. At the end of the job, wipe down your lathe, table saw, or whatever tool you're using.
> 
> I do the same thing in the kitchen....it's called cleaning as you go, and it really reduces cleanup at the end....like to zero.
> 
> I've gotten into the habit of cleaning up at the end of each day I do something in the garage...even if the project is still in progress. When I come back to it, I can think clearly because I don't have a pile of tools and debris to contend with. Plus, I just like to look at a clean and well cared for machine. It's like a car; somehow it just drives better when it's clean


I never said my shop was clean! LOL I just don't like crummy tools. I am a wood worker also, when I get involved in a project the shop gets trashed and not cleaned until the project is done. It's like that with the lathe restore right now and several other projects going on at the same time. The only thing I do during a project is an occasional sweep. I should be better at the cleaning thing, I guess I would rather work than clean.


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## ScubaSteve

I guess there's something to be said for balance. I see some guys' shops and frankly it looks downright dangerous....especially when there's stuff you have to step over/around. OTOH, I see some of these shops that are so clean they're probably better than some operating rooms. I won't lie, I recently built some decent sized shop tables, but before that I did everything standing up or on the floor. On a project like yours, I'd have half a lathe laid out on cardboard to strip and paint and it definitly looked crazy to the neighbors.​


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## woodtickgreg

The doc says to work in my shop a little to help with my therapy. I can't argue with that! So yesterday I got the drive pullys and under drive pullys in the pedestal cleaned up and the new belt for the motor drive installed and adjusted. Today I started on the gear box tear down. I was very patient with it and even made a special punch out of an old plastic injection mold ejector pin, they are very hard and don't bend. Here's a few pics of the before. Next will be a trip to the parts washer and strip the housing in preparation for paint. everything came apart with little fuss, some extra work with the pins was all, nothing damaged in the dissassembly.


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## woodtickgreg

A couple days ago I finally got some time to work on cleaning and inspecting the gear box. Let everything soak in the parts washer overnight and then brushed everything clean. I just use mineral spirits in my parts washer. Stripped all the paint off the castings and wire wheeled. All the gears looked real good and no scoring on the shafts. cleaned all the oil holes with pipe cleaners and removed the old rock hard and dirty wicks. I got everything all masked off and ready for paint too. The little wood pegs are to keep paint out of the oil holes. The reason they are not painted yet is because I was running all over town trying to find the paint I have been spraying in a quart can as I want to brush the gear box casting so I don't get over spray in the holes. I couldn't find it so I settled for a little darker gray color rust oleum, I guess I'm gonna have a 2 tone paint job now. LOL Should still look good I think, especiall if I do the apron, saddle, tail stock, and head stock the same color.


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## jumps4

your lathe is going to be "really nice" when you get it done
a real labor of love
steve


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## woodtickgreg

I also got a new 8" 1hp buffer, so I thought I would buff up the handles a little before I painted them. I could have sanded them for a chrome like finish but as I stated earlier, this will be a user not a show piece. So here's a pic after wire wheeling the paint and rust off. And one buffed with emery compound. I didn't think I needed to go any smoother than they are, they look good to me!


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## stevecmo

Looking good!  My recommendation is to NOT paint the any area that your hands will touch - handles, outside of wheels, etc.  I think it just makes for a better looking machine.

Steve


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## woodtickgreg

stevecmo said:


> Looking good!  My recommendation is to NOT paint the any area that your hands will touch - handles, outside of wheels, etc.  I think it just makes for a better looking machine.
> 
> Steve


That's my plan! Thanks for the advice though.


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## woodtickgreg

So I have been painting the gear box and a couple of other parts, brushing the paint on so as not to get paint in the shaft holes. Brushed on rust oleum takes forever to dry. While I am watching paint dry I thought I would get a couple of the covers and the door on the base. I am waiting to install the large motor and belt access cover untill I can get a couple of knobs for it then it will be tool less access. I do have a new kevlar belt installed and adjusted. Here's a couple of pics, and also the gears look lonely waiting to be re mated with the housing.


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## woodtickgreg

I couldn't find any male studded knobs so I mad a couple. I just epoxied some long threaded bolts into the knobs and let them stick through the knobs a little so the threads would get covered in epoxy. I let them cure for 24hrs and then just cut the heads off the bolts with a dremel. Now my belt and motor access cover is tool less! I also installed the lead screw support bearing and the lead screw temporarily.


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## woodtickgreg

I have gone back to work now after my injury with some restrictions and that has kept me busy, so I let the painted parts cure for a week before doing any assembly. I installed the belt tensioner for the under drive and installed the gear, needle bearing, spacer, and shaft in the gear box selector lever to make it ready for the final assembly of the gear box. 
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 95417


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## woodtickgreg

I got the gear box casting ready to install all the gears and shafts. I removed the masking tape and cleaned out all the holes of any paint that might have gotten in them. I also installed all new oiling felts and lubed them with the proper oil.


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## woodtickgreg

And this is what the gear box looks like fully assembled and lubed, everything works verey smoothly and turns by hand easy peasy! I also found a guy on ebay that makes some very high quality reproduction plates and they where just what was needed for a finishing touch. What do you think guys? does it look better than what I started with?


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## jumps4

looks like brand new really nice work
steve


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## woodtickgreg

This is the completed gear box installed on the lathe temporarily, I will have to remove it to install the apron when that is completed and then install the lead screw jam nuts. It's starting to look like a lathe again! Also here's a pic of the next victom to go on the operating table for a little cosmetic surgery and some physical work too! The very dirty apron, it will get the same treatment.


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## rw1

Greg,

I  think your work is fabulous.  You have really cleaned every micron of that lathe and it looks better than factory.   Nice accent color (Black) on handles, etc...  Thanks for the show!

Question,
you mentioned how smoothly the gearbox is operating now......  did you replace any bushings, bearings?


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## woodtickgreg

rw1 said:


> Greg,
> 
> I  think your work is fabulous.  You have really cleaned every micron of that lathe and it looks better than factory.   Nice accent color (Black) on handles, etc...  Thanks for the show!
> 
> Question,
> you mentioned how smoothly the gearbox is operating now......  did you replace any bushings, bearings?



Thanks for the kind words! I'm glad you are enjoying my pics! I think that how I am refurbing this lathe is a little different than how some might do it, but it shows there are many ways to do something. I am doing this for low dollars and lots of elbow grease, it's a labor of love. No bushings or bearings needed to be replaced, no wear grooves or scoring, just a good cleaning and lubricating as it sat for years, and reassembled with the proper oil. I also removed and replaced all the oiling wicks as they where hard and packed with crud. The cool thing about doing a project like this is I will know every single piece of this lathe when it's done and that will make operating it and maintenance easier.


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## rw1

I'm working on my 65' heavy 10.  Got the countershaft assembly finished and working on the Steel cabinet now.  Next will be the gearbox - it is a double tumbler style.  I can wiggle the leadscrew quite a bit and it wobbles (I think) within the gearbox bore.  This has me thinking it is wallowed out.....but it is a long leadscrew that extends 36+ inches from a casting, so this type of play may me normal.   I suppose I can only really tell once I get into it and clean, inspect. 

What wicks / felt sizes and types are you using?  Or did you go with the SB heavy 10 kit from ebay?


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## Pacer

May I offer my congratulations, and praise, for your work on that Heavy - very, very nice! And this come from a guy that _KNOWS_ what an undertaking a project like that can be, and yet at the same time be such a blast!

Last summer/fall I did a 1942 Heavy 10, it was in much, much worse condition than yours and I spent quite a bit more money on it than looks like what you will be in to yours. But, in a lot of ways I'm kinda glad it was so bad, I learned, and did, stuff that I never thought I would have - or could have! (I learned to cut all my gears and shafts)

Heres a hint at what I had to do --and a link to my photobucket site with a bunch of other pics you might like

http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/pace1980/South%20Bend%20Heavy%2010/#!cpZZ2QQtppZZ20


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## woodtickgreg

rw1 said:


> I'm working on my 65' heavy 10.  Got the countershaft assembly finished and working on the Steel cabinet now.  Next will be the gearbox - it is a double tumbler style.  I can wiggle the leadscrew quite a bit and it wobbles (I think) within the gearbox bore.  This has me thinking it is wallowed out.....but it is a long leadscrew that extends 36+ inches from a casting, so this type of play may me normal.   I suppose I can only really tell once I get into it and clean, inspect.
> 
> What wicks / felt sizes and types are you using?  Or did you go with the SB heavy 10 kit from ebay?


I bought the rebuild kit and the book of ebay and I highly recommend them. The kit is high quality and includes everything you will need. The book is excellent also and explains everything as far as proper order and how to disassemble and reassemble without damaging anything. The book has step by step photo's and is well written in easy terms to understand.


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## woodtickgreg

Pacer said:


> May I offer my congratulations, and praise, for your work on that Heavy - very, very nice! And this come from a guy that _KNOWS_ what an undertaking a project like that can be, and yet at the same time be such a blast!
> 
> Last summer/fall I did a 1942 Heavy 10, it was in much, much worse condition than yours and I spent quite a bit more money on it than looks like what you will be in to yours. But, in a lot of ways I'm kinda glad it was so bad, I learned, and did, stuff that I never thought I would have - or could have! (I learned to cut all my gears and shafts)


Thank you for posting the link to your pics, I enjoyed them. I did read your thread and all the trials and tribulations you went through, and it inspired me. Restoring one of these is a labor of love, I am enjoying the project and look forward to the day that I can use it and get it dirty. They say that their only new once, but I think the people that restore them make them new again! Great job on yours too!


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## woodtickgreg

Just so you guys don't think that I have been slacking, I have been working on the lathe when I can. Work has been just insane lately since I got back, working a full time job and a part time job takes a lot out of me sometimes but I gotta take it when I can. Here's some pics of what I have gotten done so far. Started with a dirty apron assembly and stripped it for a trip to the parts washer to clean it with wire brushes for a better inspection of the parts. The sump had some chips in it as expected but not to bad. I have seen some guys sumps just packed with crud! Everything looked real good and no surprises so I wire wheeled all the paint off and buffed up the handles in preperation for painting. got everything all masked off too. I did get the first coat of paint on today, hope to have some more pics next weekend!


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## rw1

Greg,

Don't think anyone who refurbishes a SB is a slacker.....too many parts.....haha.  Looking good.


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## bisley45

You are doing great. I never would of thought how addictive the stuff could be lol


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## jduncan

Wow, what a nice job you are doing.  I'm preparing to refurbish my 13"SB so I'm taking notes!


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## woodtickgreg

Thanks for the kind words guys! It is encouraging to here that people think your work is nice. It is addicting and a labor of love, very fun to take something old and grungy and make it new again. This lathe is older than me and it's really cool to see how they made things back in the day. I have been painting every day this week so that maybe I can get the apron assembled this weekend, gonna go put a coat on now!


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## woodtickgreg

So I have made a little more progress, got everything all painted and worked on the assembly. I installed all new felt oiling wicks, that's the reason I originally started this rebuild, it just kinda spun off into a full restore. In the second and third pics you can see some of the wicks. In the fourth and fifth pics you can see the half nut gib clamp, I had some trouble with it and when I tightened the bolts down the lever did not work smothly and would stick in places. I clamped the gib in a vice and made a few strokes with a very fine file and it revealed high and low spots, a few more strokes and it was dead flat. I reassembled it and it's smooth as can be now. Guys when you are working on your machines to restore them take the time to fix things like this or you will never get back to it. Now is the time to do it!


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## woodtickgreg

A few more pics of sundays progress. Top 2 pics are what the finished apron will look like, the hand wheel and pinion shaft are only on temporaraly as I am going to do a modification to the oiling wick and add a gits oil cup, this was reccomended in the rebuild book I got off ebay and it makes perfect sense! Why not do it, I will post pics when I get that done. The last 2 pics show the oil sump cover ready to be installed, used a new gasket and some sealer and installed it.


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## woodtickgreg

Everything on the apron went together without much fuss and I had some more time so I got into the saddle. Everything on the saddle came apart quite easy, some small parts where missing, little brass shoes behind screws for the gibs, no big deal, I can make those. Someone at some point in this lathes life did a half a$$ restore to it, I have been correcting everything I have found to make it right. The last 2 pics show something interesting I found, and I talked to a retired machinery rebuilder about this. Teflon strips on the saddle where it rides on the ways. He said this is a common practice to repair or improve the machine, he said some manufacturers are even doing this on new machines. This kinda explains why my ways where in such good condition. The real test will be when it's all done and I do a long test cut to see if it holds a tolerance. You just never know what your gonna find in these old machines! When I got home from work today I took all the saddle parts out to the garage for a good washing in the parts washer, I'll post some more pics soon.


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## Pacer

Greg,
Those 'teflon' strips are probably "Rulon" or "Turcite" and yes, its a common repair for these old worn machines. If you get curious, google those names and you should see a lot of stuff on their use.  I had to use "Rulon" on the Sheldon I just finished - both products are pricey and so is the special epoxy to stick it down.


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## rw1

woodtickgreg said:


> Guys when you are working on your machines to restore them take the time to fix things like this or you will never get back to it. Now is the time to do it!



Very true words Greg - nice catch!

My 65' Heavy 10 has turned into the same complete rebuild.  Bearings were all shot in the Countershaft and now the QCGB.  No doubt I'll see some issues with the Apron, Saddle, Tailstock and Spindle.......hopefully all minor. 

When a machine is over 30 yrs old it is going to need new sealed bearings.....just the way it works.  Swarf, chips, caked grease gum up everything.  Took me an hour to clean the oil passages in the Gearbox.  We should all be thankful that these machines can take abuse, and the majority of them can be returned to factory fresh.......but it does take some time, some TLC, and a lot of patience.  It is very rewarding to see a problem and fix it.

Keep at it....  I'll be a couple months behind on my restore.....but (like you) will be very pleased with the process and outcome.


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## woodtickgreg

rw1 said:


> Very true words Greg - nice catch!
> 
> My 65' Heavy 10 has turned into the same complete rebuild.  Bearings were all shot in the Countershaft and now the QCGB.  No doubt I'll see some issues with the Apron, Saddle, Tailstock and Spindle.......hopefully all minor.
> 
> When a machine is over 30 yrs old it is going to need new sealed bearings.....just the way it works.  Swarf, chips, caked grease gum up everything.  Took me an hour to clean the oil passages in the Gearbox.  We should all be thankful that these machines can take abuse, and the majority of them can be returned to factory fresh.......but it does take some time, some TLC, and a lot of patience.  It is very rewarding to see a problem and fix it.
> 
> Keep at it....  I'll be a couple months behind on my restore.....but (like you) will be very pleased with the process and outcome.



Have you been posting pics of your progress? I would like to see where your at so far. These projects do take time and elbow grease but it is fun and very rewarding! I am currently stripping the paint off the saddle, buy the time I get home from my 2 jobs I only have about an hour of daylight outside to work in, I get a piece a day done and ready for paint.


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## rw1

woodtickgreg said:


> Have you been posting pics of your progress? I would like to see where your at so far.



I haven't shown any photos.  I do have a dozen or so perhaps taken from my cell phone while dismantling the part in the garage and such.  I'll get those organized and take some current pics with my digital camera.  I can probably get a thread started next week.  I suppose everyone enjoys photos of South Bend Lathes  -- it's like we are a big family.


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## woodtickgreg

So I got the gits oil cups the other day and I did the modification to the hand wheel shaft today. I first drilled a 1/8" hole through the casting and into the groove for the wick. Then I counter bored that hole with a 1/4" bit 3/16" deep and seated the cup with a brass punch. I installed the cup a little towards the front of the apron so I would have easy access to the cover either from the top behind the hand wheel or through the hand wheel from the front. By directly oiling the wick oil will never be an issue on this highly used shaft. The original install of the wick was very close to 2 gears and I could see how the wick might have gotten caught and cut and you would never know it, you would then be running it dry and not know it. The apron is now complete! I have been working on the saddle, all paint is stripped and I started repainting today, pics to come when done.


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## woodtickgreg

Well I have made some more progress so I guess it's time for an update. First pic shows all the saddle parts painted and the completed apron. Second pic shows what the dials and shafts looked like before I reworked them. You can see the saddle mounted to the bed with new felt wipers and what the dials and shafts look like after showing them a little love. Last pic is the completed saddle, I did have to make some new gib screw locks as the originals where missing. I just used some 1/8" brass rod.


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## woodtickgreg

Here's a couple of better pics of the dials, there not perfect but they are nice imo. And a couple of pics of the saddle, apron, lead screw, and gear box assembled and mounted on the lathe. Everything works well when I turn the leadscrew by hand. Switch mount pedestal is also mounted.


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## woodtickgreg

So I finally moved on to the head stock, this is a used one that I purchased on ebay to replace the original that the previous owner did a poor repair job on. I have not been able to work on this till now due to an injury. I pulled the caps and everything is as it should be, original bearings and dove tail adjusters all intact, no scoring or ridges on the spindle. This is a major relief for me knowing that I have a good base to work with now. I will show it the same love that I have shown all the other parts to this point, I will pay close attention to getting the proper clearance for the spindle bearings set.


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## bisley45

looking very nice. you got me wanting to get a heavy 10 now . my wife is going to kill me lol


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## rw1

The Heavy 10 is looking just superb!  Man you are doing a great job...:worship:

What procedure to clean and shine the compound dials, handles, etc...?

You GO my friend!!


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## Tony Wells

Very purdy!


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## woodtickgreg

rw1 said:


> The Heavy 10 is looking just superb!  Man you are doing a great job...:worship:
> 
> What procedure to clean and shine the compound dials, handles, etc...?
> 
> You GO my friend!!



I just wire wheeled them to remove rust, paint etc. Then a very light sanding on the handles with 220 grit sand paper, then a final buffing with emory compound. Like I said, not perfect but they came out pretty nice. The shafts I just cleaned in a parts washer with mineral spirits and a soft wire brush. This lathe is going to be a user so I intend to get it dirty! This restore is mostly to inspect and refelt and lube all the mechanicals before I put it into service, I have corrected many things that where either missing or wrong.


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## RandyM

GREAT work Greg, keep it up! So are you making a list of projects for this machine to turn out. Can't have a machine looking this well and not making chips. :nono:


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## Tamper84

Very very nice!!!!!


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## woodtickgreg

RandyM said:


> GREAT work Greg, keep it up! So are you making a list of projects for this machine to turn out. Can't have a machine looking this well and not making chips. :nono:


My main use of the lathe will be for tool making, mostly wood turning chisels. A kid I work with want's me to make him a special tool for his dirt bike. Maybe some motorcycle parts for me. I dunno, the list seems to be growing! I do intend to use the lathe and not just let it sit in a corner and look pretty!
Today I got the headstock completely tore down and a trip to the parts washer for a good scrubbing and degreasing, scrubbed it good with a wire brush, sprayed it down with brake clean and now I just gotta remove the paint and repaint. I try and work on it when I get time.


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## Jeffers

Inspiring stuff!

I need more time!!!


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## woodtickgreg

Work has just been insane lately and the days are getting really short, but I have been working on the lathe a couple of hours a day. One day I stripped the head stock, next day into the parts washer for a good cleaning and degreasing, next day wire wheeled all the paint off the casting and sprayed down with brake clean to remove any residual oil. 4 days to paint, 2 coats on the bottom and 2 coats on the top, all brushed and not masked, gettin pretty good at this free hand painting stuff. LOL Here's a few pics, painted head stock mounted to the bed, a pic with the bearing caps just sitting on the head stock. There's also a pic of the spindles and the used bearings with the dovetails, these where missing in the original. Now I have 2 spindles and all the associated parts and I can pick the best parts for my lathe.


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## woodtickgreg

Here's a few pics of some spindle parts before cleaning. The new used spindle bearing shows signs of being run low on oil or without proper bearing clearance, it has some wear but no major galling, I think it will clean up ok. These are the 2 spindles, the top one is the original and the one I will use, it is in a little better shape even though both are good. 2 sets of take up bearings, the original is in great shape, I wonder where the ball went from the other one! LOL The cone pully from the original will also be used, someone did a half a$$ cleanup on the bronze bearing, I'll fix that, It does fit nicely. I did get to wash everything for the spindle in the parts washer since I took the pics, the bearing and all the parts cleaned up well.


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## rw1

You are on the home stretch for sure.  Only painting left is what.....Tail Stock and maybe some gears? 

I see now how valuable having the Parts Washer -- man it is a time saver.  All my cleaning is in separate buckets of Dawn Detergent - Simple Green -and then mineral spirits.  Lots of rags too.

You have beat the cold weather -- good for you!


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## bisley45

Looking good :thumbup:


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## woodtickgreg

rw1 said:


> You are on the home stretch for sure.  Only painting left is what.....Tail Stock and maybe some gears?
> 
> I see now how valuable having the Parts Washer -- man it is a time saver.  All my cleaning is in separate buckets of Dawn Detergent - Simple Green -and then mineral spirits.  Lots of rags too.
> 
> You have beat the cold weather -- good for you!


Yeah I have had the parts washer for years as I am a small engine mechanic also, it's been in the 30's and 40's here and I could feel the cold solvent through my gloves. I got quite a bit of painting to do yet, covers, gears, work light, and ? I do one component at a time as I have been doing all the work on the cart in the pics do to lack of space.


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## woodtickgreg

I have made some phone calls to try and find some new shims for the spindle caps as mine where pretty mangled, only to find out that grizzly only sells parts for new lathes and the new south bend lathe company no longer sells them either. they still have some parts but not the shims, I did get a couple of new set screws for the back gear though. So what to do? I had an idea and it worked! Brass is soft so I used my wood working scroll saw and stack cut 12 different size shims from .001" to .015" and a .0015" for a half a thousandth shim. I just made some paper templates and taped them to the stock and cut away! This was a cheap way to do this without having to buy any tools to make them. I will just use a small file to debur them. They may not be as perfect as the originals but they will work just fine! I got the big end ones done and I can cut the small end ones after work during the week. I'm so relieved. I should have enough shims for any possible configuration needed.


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## rw1

That's the way to do it.......nice Greg!

I bet someone at SB back in 1910-15 scrolled out patterns.  I'm guessing somewhere along the line they got a die press to stamp out the shims.  You bet those will work!

You're doing great buddy -- thanks for the show.....


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## ScubaSteve

Nice progress! It may not be as quick, but there is something to be said for doing one part at a time. It allows you to really focus on doing a good job. I'm doing a 10" Sheldon right now myself....unfortunately I did NOT beat the cold weather. Looks like I'll be painting in a cold garage and hoping it all cures okay.


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## woodtickgreg

Well after the parts where cleaned I did not feel comfortable with the bearing shells, there was some scoring or ridges in them that I could feel with my finger nail. So I set them in place in the head stock and put the caps on with the bolts finger tight so as not to crush them and to hold them round. I then cleaned them up with a cylinder hone by hand just untill the ridges where gone, Then I polished them up with some 600 grit paper just to remove the scratches, voila! like new. I then buffed the bearing surfaces on the spindle and reassembled the spindle and set it in place with new capillary oil wicks installed. I installed the caps with .0225" of shims for the first test indicator. I took readings on both ends with a .001" dial indicator, I did this three times until I got it right with a perfect setting of .001" of clearance, and end play of take up bearing and nut was also set to .001" I ended up with a .0185" shim stack. In the pics you can see the lift test bar, a solid 1 1/4" bar inserted about a foot into the spindle. Made sure the indicator was set to zero for the testing. Last pic shows everything installed, had to trim a little of the ends of the shims so they did not stick out of the caps and rub on the spindle flange, bull gear, or take up bearings and nut.


----------



## woodtickgreg

A couple more pics. You can see my home made shims sticking out of the caps in the front, that's ok, you just don't want them to stick out on the sides and rub on anything. Everything turns very smoothly by hand, I can get one full spin by hand without a chuck installed before it comes to a stop. This was a big accomplishment for me since the original headstock was missing the dovetail adjusters and the bearings where cut in half. After sourcing a new used headstock to replace the missing or damaged parts and having everything come out ok I am very relieved and can now move on with the rest of the restore. I will do some testing under power to make sure the bearings and caps do not get exsessivly hot. It has come out better than expected.


----------



## OakRidgeGuy

That sir is beautiful work!


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## HMF

rw1 said:


> That's the way to do it.......nice Greg!
> 
> I bet someone at SB back in 1910-15 scrolled out patterns.  I'm guessing somewhere along the line they got a die press to stamp out the shims.  You bet those will work!
> 
> You're doing great buddy -- thanks for the show.....





rw1,

Can you please post the photos and desciption of YOUR H10 restoration that you posted on another forum?

You did a great job breaking it down and we can all learn from it.


Thanks!


----------



## HMF

Wood,

You did a fantastic job, as you know!

Keep that up, you will end up moderating this forum!  :man:


(We do need a moderator- seriously! Any takers?)


----------



## woodtickgreg

Oz said:


> Wood,
> 
> You did a fantastic job, as you know!
> 
> Keep that up, you will end up moderating this forum!  :man:
> 
> 
> (We do need a moderator- seriously! Any takers?)


Thank you for the kind words! It means a lot coming from the admin. I hope that others have enjoyed my restore thread too and can see what you can do on the cheap with a lot of elbow grease and some passion for what you do with your hands. As far as being a mod, I have thought about it, but there are others here with way more knowledge and experiance than me. I'm just a guy that likes to work with his hands, weather it be wood working, metal working, mechanics, or the never ending honey do list....LOL. I do appreciate this forum and it's laid back atmosphere, no ego's here weather a pro or a hobbiest like me, everyone seems friendly and willing to help. Maybe when I am done with the restore if someone more worthy of the position hasn't taken it I might entertain the offer more seriously. But right now I need to get this lathe done so I can get it dirty and make some stuff!


----------



## Tony Wells

Greg, you are doing a marvelous job. In fact, since this is such a large project, I am naming it PoM for November and December. Keep up the good work!


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## irishwoodsman

very nice job:winner:


----------



## rw1

Tony Wells said:


> Greg, you are doing a marvelous job. In fact, since this is such a large project, I am naming it PoM for November and December. Keep up the good work!



100% agreement!


----------



## David

Super nice work and well deserved!!

David


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## woodtickgreg

Wow! this is quite an honor! I'm flattered, seriously thanks to all you great guys for your support! And to Tony, Thank you very much for picking my project as pom, I never even considered something like this would come of my project.


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## akcycle

You have my utmost respect for the ethic displayed in the completion and also the discretion in quality of refurbish. Pete    PS. I wish you were my neighbor.


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## jumps4

can one say a " lathe ' is pretty?
she is a beauty, now lets get her dirty )
steve


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## woodtickgreg

Well since I was picked for pom I better show you guys that I am working on the lathe when I can, a couple hours a day after work. I still do things one component or group of parts at a time due to lack of space, I work on a small tool cart. In the pics you can see some finished parts. I got the back gear with the new used handle installed, my handle was broken off when I got the lathe. One tooth on the back gear was a little mushed so I spent some time with a needle file and reshaped it, it works perfectly now. I cleaned up the micrometer stop and installed that too, It was very rusty when I got the lathe.


----------



## woodtickgreg

I also reworked the thread dial and installed it. And a pick of all the working parts all clustered together. I am currently working on all the gears that mount on the side of the head stock. I am finally feeling like I am in the home stretch. after the gears I have all the covers to do, the tail stock, the switch, the worklight, and then run a power line and purchase and hook up a vfd.


----------



## OakRidgeGuy

Exceptional work if I may say so!


----------



## McGuyvers shop

That is a great looking lathe.  I can't believe how clean it is.  It is very similiar to the one I bought last month concerning the controls and such. Mine is a 1933, 11" swing, 4' bed as best I can figure.   I had the three and four jaw chuck with mine, but was missing the collet bushing and spindle nut. I have a set of collets, but haven't figured out what size they are yet.  It appears they are 3/4-20 thread and .750 in diameter. The chart I looked up was neither 5C or 3C.


----------



## lineman

Breath-taking! Excellent work!


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## Tamper84

Again excellent project!!! Congratulations on POM!!!!

Chris


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## woodtickgreg

I don't know if anyone has noticed but the thread dial does not line up with the machined pad on the saddle. This is obviously not the correct thread dial for a heavy 10L lathe. I wonder what it is for? So at this point I am looking for a thread dial for a heavy 10L. Maybe if I can find out what it does fit I can sell the one I have and put it toward the purchase of a correct one, or maybe a trade?


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## ScubaSteve

Get yerself a tee-shirt! You could have the headstock on the back, ways on either sleeve, etc. etc.:winner:


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## Jerry457

Wow unbelieveable work and restoration!!! I joined this group to post my progress on a late model Heavy 10 but after seeing this and other projects I am very humbled. I has some left to do and still may post the details, photos, and my findings of the differences in the restoration guide vs. actual disassembly but again truly amazing work on this Heavy 10. I would doubt it looked this good brand new from the South Bend factory.

WELL DONE!!!


----------



## woodtickgreg

Jerry457 said:


> Wow unbelieveable work and restoration!!! I joined this group to post my progress on a late model Heavy 10 but after seeing this and other projects I am very humbled. I has some left to do and still may post the details, photos, and my findings of the differences in the restoration guide vs. actual disassembly but again truly amazing work on this Heavy 10. I would doubt it looked this good brand new from the South Bend factory.
> 
> WELL DONE!!!


Thanks Jerry! Please do post your work! Do not be humbled by anyone elses work, there are guys way more talented than me, and if I did not work on things and try new stuff I wouldn't learn anything. Be proud of what you learn and accomplish. Some guys would never restore a lathe to the level that myself or others do, but that's ok too. Some guys would just change the wicks and put it back together and call it a done, that's ok also. I take pride in my tools weather they are for wood working, machining, or mechanics. This lathe is special to me for many reasons, I never thought I would be able to own a south bend, it is rich in history and a piece of america's industrial revolution, it was made by american craftsman at a time when quality meant something. A friend called my restore a.i.r., that means american iron restoration.
 There are some differences in the guide due to the fact that south bend made minor changes to certain parts through the years, it is still a great guide! I found things on my lathe that where not exactly as shown in the book, an example is my reversing gear does not have all the wicks shown in the book, but mine is a 1949 and an early model. The cabinet heavy 10's probably had more upgrades or changes.
As an update, I am painting the brackets for the gears and should be able to get them assembled and installed tomorrow, pics to come!


----------



## robert1352

Excellent work I really like how you didnt use any bondo to smooth out the castings.I think machines look better that way.


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## woodtickgreg

robert1352 said:


> Excellent work I really like how you didnt use any bondo to smooth out the castings.I think machines look better that way.


Yeah I thought I would leave it as south bend made it, I like the way it looks too. This lathe is going to be a user, not a museum piece. The whole point of the restore was to change the wicks and inspect and repair any damaged or missing parts, the wicks where very hard and packed with crud! But I am one of those people that just can't take something apart and not put it back together better than it was, which led to the whole painting and restore thing. It's not perfect, but way better than it was when I got it. It should be easier to keep clean too.


----------



## Dranreb

What a great job you've done there, I love the look of old style machinery, thanks for sharing yours :thumbzup:


----------



## woodtickgreg

Here's a few pics of last weeks and today's progress. A shot of the headstock awaiting the gears, painted and cleaned parts to be assembled. My reversing gear assembly was not exactly like the one in the rebuild book. This is one of the many variations that you may run into, South Bend continuosly made changes and improvements to their lathes over the years. mine did not have all the oil passages and wicks that where shown in the book. The 2 small gears at the top of the assembly had round felt wicks in them feed by gravity through holes in the shafts. when reassembling the reverser and pressing the gears in make sure the holes are at the top. A pic of the completed reverser assembly


----------



## woodtickgreg

Here you can see the reverser installed on the lathe. In the second pic you can see the spindle drive gear has been driven home, I waited to do this until the reverse gears where installed so I could center it up with the gears. There is plenty of room between the spindle take up nut for adjustment if needed. A couple of pics of the Hi-lo range gear assembly. I also made sure the oil holes where at the top of this assembly when pressing the shafts in..


----------



## woodtickgreg

Here's a couple of pics of all the gears installed, everything turns freely by hand. The little bronze reverser lever really polished up well, I hand sanded some nicks and dings out of it and then buffed it. I think it is my favorite piece on the lathe! I took care to make sure all the gears had full engagement and where centered as best as possible. Next I gathered up all the covers as seen in the pic. I was missing the bull gear flip cover and I found a set of bull gear/back gear covers with the flipper on ebay. The new/used covers are cast iron, mine where aluminum. I then washed them in the parts washer to degrease them. I am going to take this to a media stripper by me to have them glass beaded to remove the paint and make ready for repainting. The reason I degreased them is so they didn't get grease in the strippers blast cabinet, little things like this are appreciated by vendors and you usually get better service in the long run.


----------



## Chester

woodtickgreg said:


> Here's a couple of pics of all the gears installed, everything turns freely by hand. The little bronze reverser lever really polished up well, I hand sanded some nicks and dings out of it and then buffed it. I think it is my favorite piece on the lathe! I took care to make sure all the gears had full engagement and where centered as best as possible. Next I gathered up all the covers as seen in the pic. I was missing the bull gear flip cover and I found a set of bull gear/back gear covers with the flipper on ebay. The new/used covers are cast iron, mine where aluminum. I then washed them in the parts washer to degrease them. I am going to take this to a media stripper by me to have them glass beaded to remove the paint and make ready for repainting. The reason I degreased them is so they didn't get grease in the strippers blast cabinet, little things like this are appreciated by vendors and you usually get better service in the long run.
> 
> View attachment 42537
> View attachment 42538
> View attachment 42539
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .       Woodtickgreg, everyones work I look at, is beyond words that I know of, to tell them how great their work is. One member, who has  been helping me is Rick. He ask me to send pictures of my problem, but i can't seem to get a picture from cell phone to I Pad. Then I saw your pictures, what I have now is in pictures number 53 kb and 60 kb. What i don't have and need to know is, as pictures in 100 kb and 101 kb, what is the diameter of   the gears located at the end of lead screw, I think it is 56T, and the small one on top, may be a 20T. I have  some  gears,but may be for a regular 9. If you could help me out, I would so thankful, Chester


----------



## woodtickgreg

Chester said:


> woodtickgreg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a couple of pics of all the gears installed, everything turns freely by hand. The little bronze reverser lever really polished up well, I hand sanded some nicks and dings out of it and then buffed it. I think it is my favorite piece on the lathe! I took care to make sure all the gears had full engagement and where centered as best as possible. Next I gathered up all the covers as seen in the pic. I was missing the bull gear flip cover and I found a set of bull gear/back gear covers with the flipper on ebay. The new/used covers are cast iron, mine where aluminum. I then washed them in the parts washer to degrease them. I am going to take this to a media stripper by me to have them glass beaded to remove the paint and make ready for repainting. The reason I degreased them is so they didn't get grease in the strippers blast cabinet, little things like this are appreciated by vendors and you usually get better service in the long run.
> 
> View attachment 42537
> View attachment 42538
> View attachment 42539
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .       Woodtickgreg, everyones work I look at, is beyond words that I know of, to tell them how great their work is. One member, who has  been helping me is Rick. He ask me to send pictures of my problem, but i can't seem to get a picture from cell phone to I Pad. Then I saw your pictures, what I have now is in pictures number 53 kb and 60 kb. What i don't have and need to know is, as pictures in 100 kb and 101 kb, what is the diameter of the gears located at the end of lead screw, I think it is 56T, and the small one on top, may be a 20T. I have some  gears,but may be for a regular 9. If you could me out, I would so thankful, Chester
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the 2 stacked gears on the reverser or the wide gearbox input shaft gear on the bottom right? let me know which and I will count the teeth and give you a outside diameter measurement.
Click to expand...


----------



## Chester

Wood





woodtickgreg said:


> Chester;
> 
> Are you talking about the 2 stacked gears on the reverser or the wide gearbox input shaft gear on the bottom right? let me know which and I will count the teeth and give you a outside diameter measurement.[/QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodtickgreg, the gears I am talking about, one is below the stacked gears and the smaller one on the outside. The other would be the lower right gear that appears to be thicker. Hope that help and thanks for such a quick response, Chester
Click to expand...


----------



## woodtickgreg

Chester said:


> Wood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> woodtickgreg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Woodtickgreg, the gears I am talking about, one is below the stacked gears and the smaller one on the outside. The other would be the lower right gear that appears to be thicker. Hope that help and thanks for such a quick response, Chester
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, I will get you my measurements and tooth count when I get home from work today and post it here.
Click to expand...


----------



## Tamper84

Maybe I missed it, but what year was this lathe made? 

Thanks,
Chris


----------



## woodtickgreg

Tamper84 said:


> Maybe I missed it, but what year was this lathe made?
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris


Mine is a 49. don't know what year chester's is.
Chester, here is the measurements, just fractional, if you need decimal let me know. The wide gear box input gear on the bottom right is 3 3/4" and 66 tooth.
The gear assy on the bottom left is 3 5/8" for the large gear 1 3/8 for the small gear, 64 and 22 teeth respectfully. Hope this helps to narrow down your problem.


----------



## Chester

woodtickgreg said:


> Mine is a 49. don't know what year chester's is.
> Chester, here is the measurements, just fractional, if you need decimal let me know. The wide gear box input gear on the bottom right is 3 3/4" and 66 tooth.
> The gear assy on the bottom left is 3 5/8" for the large gear 1 3/8 for the small gear, 64 and 22 teeth respectfully. Hope this helps to narrow down your problem.



I just sent for, a few days ago, the serial card number from south bend, I guess this will tell the year of my lathe and other things. I don't know too much about it, i got it in pieces. I do know it had the wrong gear cover door, wrong countershaft and many missing part. I was able to buy and make many parts, I was doing OK until I hit the gears. This why I cannot tell Rick and you how just how much help this forum has been to me. I was very lost in Pennsylvania and feeling down with out any direction. I am going to check with Rick to see if his gears are the same, I am sure they are. Now I can show him with your pictures and what gears I was talking about. Nothing but good advice here. I will show you pictures of the lathe when I get the auto feed going, then ,after I get it home and see I have all the parts and it is running, I will take it apart and paint it, and change and clean all the oil fittings. I hope it looks 50% as good as yours and Rick's lathe does when i am done!! Thanks, Chester


----------



## pjf134

Chester,
  If you list your serial number on the lathe one of us can look it up and give you a year. There is a site for this and many of us can look it up for you.
Paul


----------



## Chester

pjf134 said:


> Chester,
> If you list your serial number on the lathe one of us can look it up and give you a year. There is a site for this and many of us can look it up for you.
> Paul



Hi, the serial number is 78891, I try but couldn't find it. I know the people here know a lot more, so thank you for your help.


----------



## mrtechnologist2u

Hi it looks like your lathe was built prior to September in 1938 acording to http://www.wswells.com/

A lot of good info on that site.


----------



## woodtickgreg

I have been working on the lathe when I get time after working 2 jobs and therapy for my arm, thanksgiving etc. In the first pic I installed the lead screw cover before I painted it, glad I did, it was so close to the oil caps that I had a hard time getting my fingers in there to open the caps. Second pic shows how I filed it a bit for better access, then I painted it. The belt cover was missing when I got the lathe and I found one on ebay, I painted the underside of it and buffed the top for a little shine, I think it looks nice. I then installed the reproduction tags.


----------



## woodtickgreg

I then installed the bull gear and back gear covers, the little bull gear flipper cover was also missing. I found a whole set on ebay, all cast iron, the 2 gear covers that came with the lathe where aluminum, I used the cast iron ones. Then I cleaned up the tags for the gear cover and pinned them in place and installed the cover. Another pic of the polished belt cover and bull gear flipper cover. You can see the belt cover has a little gap in it, I cannot get it adjusted any better, it appears to be warped, I don't dare try and straighten cast aluminum! I'll live with it, the only part of the restore I am not fully happy with, but like I said, the original was missing and this is still better. In the third and fourth pic you can also see a 3'x3' sheet of aluminum that I got from work for free, I'm going to mount that to the wall when the lathe is set in it's final resting place as a back splash. Also got some 1 1/4" round hot roll to play with.


----------



## woodtickgreg

One more pic of all the covers installed. Then I tore into the tail stock, got some paint stripping to do and some buffing of the shiney parts before I can paint it and get it installed. The oil fill cap for the tail stock is smashed and damaged, gotta try and find one of those, If not I have an idea that will work. Oh and I did find a used correct micrometer carriage stop, should get it next week maybe, it is the long bullet style and a correct piece. now I just have to figure out what the one I have fits and see if I can sell it! At least it's already restored and the buyer can just bolt it on, I wonder if it fits a 9?


----------



## woodtickgreg

etard said:


> Inspirational Greg!  Time to get her dirty now and make some chips!


Soon my friend, soon. Gotta get the tail stock done, restore the work light, make a belt install the switch and wire it, purchase and install a vfd, run a 220 line to the vfd, a little work to do yet, but I finally feel very close!


----------



## OakRidgeGuy

That is just some beautiful work.. ! I love it..


----------



## Chester

mrtechnologist2u said:


> Hi it looks like your lathe was built prior to September in 1938 acording to http://www.wswells.com/
> 
> A lot of good info on that site.



What is a serial card number, or serial number card? Chester


----------



## woodtickgreg

If you look on page 2 post no. 45 of this thread you will see what a card looks like, it contains a lot of useful info on it, when it was made and shipped, who it was sold to, components that where used etc. You can order a pdf file copy of a serial card from grizzly, I think it cost $25.00.


----------



## woodtickgreg

I forgot all about this, a few months back I found a 8" 4 jaw independent chuck, mt3 live center, and a to large tool holder for a good price. I figured I can sell or trade the mt3 live center and get a mt2 live center, sell the tool holder and get a bxa quick change tool holder. I still need to get a 3 jaw scroll chuck, I was looking for a 6" chuck but all these tools where brand new and coated with grease or cosmoline and I couldn't pass them up. The 8" chuck is a little large but I think the mass will be a good thing. I still need to get some brass round stock to make some shoes for the set screws that lock the chuck to the spindle, the brass will protect the threads on the spindle. Name brand on the chuck is unitop, I'm sure it's chinese but it seems decent quality.


----------



## woodtickgreg

These are the tools I will sell or trade, the live ball bearing center is a mt3, I need an mt2. The tool holder I will just sell outright as I want a bxa quick change tool post. At least I think the bxa would be the right size for a 10" lathe, little beefier cutters?





I have been working on the tail stock, cleaning, stripping paint, and polishing. Pics when it's done.


----------



## HMF

Damn, what a nice job! I gotta make you a bigger banner! :man:I marvel at how shiny you got the metal covers.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Nelson said:


> Damn, what a nice job! I gotta make you a bigger banner! :man:I marvel at how shiny you got the metal covers.



Since you put my project front and center I figured I needed to step it up! LOL


----------



## radial1951

*Where to get a Heavy 10 Thrust Bearing.*

*
Greg, Your SB H10 is VERY nice. I know exactly how much work you have put into it. I did the same thing to mine in 1975, when I was a bit younger! Seeing your photos is like going back in time. After 37 years, mine could do with a bit of polish now, but it has stood up pretty well. The spindle bearings have never needed touching. Except the ball thrust bearing is no longer perfect. Because the balls and/or races are worn, the spindle floats a few tenths of a thous, in an apparently irregular fashion, as it rotates.

Have you, or any other forum members, been able to source a replacement ball thrust bearing? These early H10 lathes have been around quite a while now, and there must be many of them soon to encounter a similar problem, if they haven't already.

Again, well done on your rebuild. Here's a photo of my 1947 Heavy 10, still nice to use after all these years. You will really enjoy yours, especially as you know it inside-out.

Regards, RossG.
radial1951
_____________


----------



## woodtickgreg

*Re: Where to get a Heavy 10 Thrust Bearing.*



radial1951 said:


> *
> Greg, Your SB H10 is VERY nice. I know exactly how much work you have put into it. I did the same thing to mine in 1975, when I was a bit younger! Seeing your photos is like going back in time. After 37 years, mine could do with a bit of polish now, but it has stood up pretty well. The spindle bearings have never needed touching. Except the ball thrust bearing is no longer perfect. Because the balls and/or races are worn, the spindle floats a few tenths of a thous, in an apparently irregular fashion, as it rotates.
> 
> Have you, or any other forum members, been able to source a replacement ball thrust bearing? These early H10 lathes have been around quite a while now, and there must be many of them soon to encounter a similar problem, if they haven't already.
> 
> Again, well done on your rebuild. Here's a photo of my 1947 Heavy 10, still nice to use after all these years. You will really enjoy yours, especially as you know it inside-out.
> 
> Regards, RossG.
> radial1951
> _____________



Ross, what a great looking lathe! This whole obsession with the restore all started as a suggestion of many members here to check the wicks. I'm glad I took their advice as they where hard and packed with crud. But it seems as I have this problem with not being able to do things so so, I was just going to clean it and rewick it and use it, well you can see how far I got with that. LOL I am glad I have done this restore as it has tought me everything about the machine and it has been a fun project that I can't wait to use! I think it's as close to a new south bend as I can get. I am going to use it as it was meant to be. I still have some work to do yet, and I am working on the tail stock currently. As far as the take up thrust bearing goes, I got lucky and my originals where in good shape and I used them in the used head stock. I have .001 of end play and she spins easy by hand. The used one was missing a ball also. I think this has come up in discussion here before but I can't remember where?


----------



## rwiederrich

woodtickgreg said:


> Here's a few pics of some spindle parts before cleaning. The new used spindle bearing shows signs of being run low on oil or without proper bearing clearance, it has some wear but no major galling, I think it will clean up ok. These are the 2 spindles, the top one is the original and the one I will use, it is in a little better shape even though both are good. 2 sets of take up bearings, the original is in great shape, I wonder where the ball went from the other one! LOL The cone pully from the original will also be used, someone did a half a$$ cleanup on the bronze bearing, I'll fix that, It does fit nicely. I did get to wash everything for the spindle in the parts washer since I took the pics, the bearing and all the parts cleaned up well.



You have done a most outstanding referb job......awesome.  One thing..have you decided on what kind of leather belts you plan on using?

Again..fantastic refab work....get a nice 3/4 tooth chuck and you're in....

Rob


----------



## woodtickgreg

rwiederrich said:


> You have done a most outstanding referb job......awesome.  One thing..have you decided on what kind of leather belts you plan on using?
> 
> Again..fantastic refab work....get a nice 3/4 tooth chuck and you're in....
> 
> Rob



I Plan to do a serpentine belt conversion, a automotive rib belt wont slip, stretch, or need much maintenance at all and will run quiet too.


----------



## snwcmpr

Nice work. Congrats.
Did you get the part for the oil filler?
Latheman may have some, I got 2 from him, and BlueChipMachine, too.

Ken in NC


----------



## woodtickgreg

snwcmpr said:


> Nice work. Congrats.
> Did you get the part for the oil filler?
> Latheman may have some, I got 2 from him, and BlueChipMachine, too.
> 
> Ken in NC


Thanks for the info, no I haven't even looked yet, been very busy this week and haven't had much time to work on the lathe.


----------



## HMF

They also carry Gits oilers at McMaster. I see them on EBay and Ted used to have them.


----------



## Chester

woodtickgreg said:


> If you look on page 2 post no. 45 of this thread you will see what a card looks like, it contains a lot of useful info on it, when it was made and shipped, who it was sold to, components that where used etc. You can order a pdf file copy of a serial card from grizzly, I think it cost $yhttp://web.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/?id=229440&part=1&auth=co&disp=II hope these picture come thru?


----------



## JeremySCook

I have what looks like the exact same lathe as yours.  Didn't even know that it was called a "SB 10 Heavy" as it was given to me.  Here's some photos etc: http://www.jcopro.net/2012/11/04/new-to-me-south-bend-lathe/  Mine's probably in close to the same state that you had yours originally, really impressive you took it to the point it is now!


----------



## woodtickgreg

JeremySCook said:


> I have what looks like the exact same lathe as yours.  Didn't even know that it was called a "SB 10 Heavy" as it was given to me.  Here's some photos etc: http://www.jcopro.net/2012/11/04/new-to-me-south-bend-lathe/  Mine's probably in close to the same state that you had yours originally, really impressive you took it to the point it is now!



Looked at your pics, pretty cool! You got way more tooling than I did, I got nuthin, you got a chuck, a taper atachment, and it looks like a drill chuck or live center in the tailstock. Oh and your price was way better than mine too! Congratulations on your new old lathe.


----------



## JeremySCook

Thanks!  Yeah it was pretty much functional, and yeah the price was right.  Only thing I had to do (so far) was swap out the motor for a 120vac model, and replace the belt.  I tried a serpentine belt to begin with, but eventually ended up using a link belt - http://www.jcopro.net/2012/11/25/how-to-replace-your-antique-lathe-belt-and-several-ways-not-to/.

I know some guys have gotten the serpentine belt to work, but given the relative price similarity, I've been quite happy with the link belt so far.  Now I "just" have to figure out how to get it to reverse, and get the cross-slide so it's not sloppy.


----------



## woodtickgreg

JeremySCook said:


> Thanks!  Yeah it was pretty much functional, and yeah the price was right.  Only thing I had to do (so far) was swap out the motor for a 120vac model, and replace the belt.  I tried a serpentine belt to begin with, but eventually ended up using a link belt - http://www.jcopro.net/2012/11/25/how-to-replace-your-antique-lathe-belt-and-several-ways-not-to/.
> 
> I know some guys have gotten the serpentine belt to work, but given the relative price similarity, I've been quite happy with the link belt so far.  Now I "just" have to figure out how to get it to reverse, and get the cross-slide so it's not sloppy.



Is the slop in the cross slide side to side from the gibs being loose or in the feed screw from a worn or loose screw nut? Just a couple of things to look at.


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## woodtickgreg

This is just a little quickie update on the chuck install. It's a big heavy chuck and I definatly don't want it to spin off and land on the bed and damage the ways. What I did was purchase some 1/4" brass rod and cut a couple of little shoes to place under the locking screws. I did this as I did not like the idea of the screws jamming on the threads of the spindle. The brass is soft and the spindle threads will just cut into it as the screws are tightened. As the chuck is a chinese import I used metric socket head cap screws instead of set screws.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Next up was the tail stock, this thing was in really bad shape, rusty, covered in spray paint primer and grunge. I spent alot of time on the parts of this thing, wire wheeling, sanding, buffing, and painting. I replaced all the wicks and the rubber bumper too. It works very smoothly now. I only need the oiler cap and that is coming from south bend.


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## woodtickgreg

No tail stock wrench you say? Don't want to spend $20 or $30 for one on ebay. I got a wrench from my local el cheapo tool store, whole sale tool, most of their stuff is chinese like the harbour freight also near me. But I found one from India for .60 cents. Drop forged and perfect to cut up! So I marked it where I wanted to cut it so I didn't cut the wrong end off, LOL and ground and sanded the end smooth, voila! Instant tail stock wrench and it's got a nice long handle for leverage, slides in and out real nice too and stays put and won't fall off!


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## woodtickgreg

I got a bid in for a 3 jaw chuck, we'll see how that turns out? I have restored the work light, I'll try and get some pics up today after work.


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## Jeff in Pa

woodtickgreg said:


> I got a bid in for a 3 jaw chuck, we'll see how that turns out? I have restored the work light, I'll try and get some pics up today after work.



 What's the mount that you need?


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## woodtickgreg

Jeff in Pa said:


> What's the mount that you need?



2 1/4" x 8tpi The one I'm looking at is a south bend/cushman 6" 3 jaw scrolling chuck


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## Jeff in Pa

woodtickgreg said:


> 2 1/4" x 8tpi The one I'm looking at is a south bend/cushman 6" 3 jaw scrolling chuck



 Bolt on jaws or two sets? ( ID & OD holding)


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## woodtickgreg

Here's some pics of the work light. everything was covered in gray spray paint primer, even the reflector. In the third pic you can see it all stripped down and ready for paint removal, fourth pic shows it painted and the reflector polished up and ready to be reassembled. I purchased a new socket and cord, didn't feel comfortable using a 62 year old cord and socket. When I stripped the paint off the wing nuts I found out they where brass, so I polished them, I think they look cool.


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## woodtickgreg

A couple more pics of the light assembled and installed on the lathe. You can also see the MT2 live center that I traded for with Jeff in Pa. I don't often see these lathes with the original work light, it's kinda cool. It's almost done, switch is next, make a serpentine belt, and wire up a vfd. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.


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## woodtickgreg

Jeff in Pa said:


> Bolt on jaws or two sets? ( ID & OD holding)



One set of jaws, od holding. But an original south bend part. I guess if I really need id holding I could use the 4 jaw in the pics, those jaws are reversable.


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## Jeff in Pa

Very nice job on the lamp.  Nice to have an original lamp for your lathe.


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## Jeff in Pa

woodtickgreg said:


> One set of jaws, od holding. But an original south bend part. I guess if I really need id holding I could use the 4 jaw in the pics, those jaws are reversable.



 While it's nice to have original vintage parts, the bolt on jaws are much more versatile as it gives you the option of soft jaws.

 Not trying to change your mind, just letting you know about different options.


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## woodtickgreg

Jeff in Pa said:


> While it's nice to have original vintage parts, the bolt on jaws are much more versatile as it gives you the option of soft jaws.
> 
> Not trying to change your mind, just letting you know about different options.



Good advice, just trying to tool up on the cheap, it came with nothing. Maybe after awhile I would upgrade the chuck, but it would work for me for awhile and then some. My wood working lathe has a chuck with removable bolt on jaws and soft jaws are an option. I never considered that for a metal lathe. Hmmm.....Good advice and information.


----------



## Jeff in Pa

woodtickgreg said:


> Good advice, just trying to tool up on the cheap, it came with nothing. Maybe after awhile I would upgrade the chuck, but it would work for me for awhile and then some. My wood working lathe has a chuck with removable bolt on jaws and soft jaws are an option. I never considered that for a metal lathe. Hmmm.....Good advice and information.



 Soft jaws are only limited by your imagination.  At work we've taken heavy wall tubing and welded it to softjaws ( obviously in three sections ) to hold round parts.  Pieces of flat stock can be welded on to be used as "pie jaws" ( pie jaws almost completely surround parts to reduce distortion and come in handy for holding thin parts)


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## radial1951

*Wow, nice machine lamp*

Now that's a nice lamp and really looks the part. Clever way to keep the outer shell cool with an air gap. You are pretty lucky it wasn't damaged in transit, the way it was just hanging down at the back of the lathe. Nicely restored.

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


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## rw1

The mighty wire wheel at work again.....looks terrific Greg!


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## jumps4

what a nice touch
good job
steve


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## HMF

Greg, I have one of those Forforia lamps from the period of my lathe, and I have been saving it for whenever (if) I can get the lathe together. I have to say you did a fantastic job disassembling, cleaning, and restoring that lamp. It looks amazing and so right.


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## woodtickgreg

Well I am at a standstill, due to not knowing if I can use the stock cuttler-hammer switch that came with the lathe with a vfd. I do want to keep the 3/4hp 3 phase motor and I would like to keep the switch too. I like where the switch is for convenience and for safety, quick to shut off if need be. The problem I have or don't understand is this, I read that when the vfd is on you cannot disconnect power abruptly like after the vfd like with an off switch. I am wondering if the switch can be wired to operate the vfd? This is what I don't know and need to find out. I probably need to call teco and find out the details and if this is possible. I don't want to rework the switch if I can't use it. I am to the point of the restore where I am ready for power and need to figure this out.


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## ScubaSteve

I found this out the same way you did. Correct, you cannot just shut the lathe off with a switch that comes after the VFD. Also, the VFD will probably not like to be turned on/off so frequently via a switch before it. However, you should check into the capabilities of your VFD. Most of the mid-grade vfd's allow for remote switching. You just connect the switch to certain jumpers and then program it accordingly. Then you can switch the load and in some cases also use a potentiometer to control speed. At that point it makes sense to put the VFD in the pedestal to avoid chips.


----------



## ScubaSteve

On another subject, do you think the 3/4 HP will be enough? I know horses were bigger back then, but still. I'm currently in the same situation...and an old 1/2HP motor was underpowered.


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## woodtickgreg

ScubaSteve said:


> On another subject, do you think the 3/4 HP will be enough? I know horses were bigger back then, but still. I'm currently in the same situation...and an old 1/2HP motor was underpowered.


I plan to call teco to get the proper vfd that I can controll with the switch and a dust proof enclosure as My lathe is also in my wood shop. I want to mount the vfd on the wall also. A little more research needs to be done. I think the 3/4hp will be enough as it's all in the gearing, sharp cutters and slow cuts will probably be the key also. I have a 3/4hp single phase wood bandsaw and it works great, it will make a 12" resaw cut no problem. South bend sold a lot of these machines with the 3/4 motor and they worked fine, back then when they rated a motor it wasn't over rated like today. After I get it up and running I'll let everyone know how the power is, I'm pretty confident it will be ok. A 3 phase motor has more grunt than a single phase, IMO. Plus I think the vfd will keep the power more even.


----------



## macnewbie

I am always amazed by these restoration projects and can only hope to one day tackle one like them. What product/process do you use to clean and polish the bare metal in the ways, etc?


----------



## woodtickgreg

macnewbie said:


> I am always amazed by these restoration projects and can only hope to one day tackle one like them. What product/process do you use to clean and polish the bare metal in the ways, etc?



My ways where in pretty good condition to start with, covered in crud and gray primer over spray. I started by just scraping with a new razor blade to get most of the crud and paint off, and then a very light sanding with some 600 grit wet or dry sand paper and some wd40 as a lube. And I do mean a very light sanding, they shined right up. I was very careful with the ways. In the beginning of this thread there was some discussion about methods for cleaning the ways and some opinions of other members, all good info.
As far as all the other bits and pieces, a wire wheel has become my best friend! Both a bench grinder with the wire wheels and a die grinder with a wire wheel. Handles and such where then sanded lightly with 220 and then 320 paper before buffing with emory buffing compound. The tail stock handle was very rusty and covered with paint, I had it glass beaded and then I sanded and buffed it. All the screws and fasteners where just wire wheeled to clean up and remove rust and paint.


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## woodtickgreg

Went shopping for a serpintine belt today, auto zone had them at a good price but they seemed very hard and plasticky...is that a word...LOL. I then went to carquest a few doors down and got their brand belt made by gates, 7 rib and 1" wide x 73 1/5 inch long. This should give me plenty of extra for the splice, cost $31.00 and some change. I probably could find it for less but I did not want to spend a ton of time looking to save a few dollars. I think I am going to try a loctite brand rubberized and flexible super glue, gotta find that. I'll post pics of how I do the splice when I do it.
Dealers equipment called me back on the vfd today and answered my questions on that. Being that my lathe is also in my wood shop dust can be a problem, they have a waterproof vfd with push button variable speed and remote switching control so I can use the original drum switch, rated for 1hp, my lathe is 3/4hp so it's plenty. $215.00 for 110 v single phase input and 220 3 phase out put. Model fm50-101-n4. So I'll get the belt done and then order the vfd, I'm so close to fireing this thing up!


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## ScubaSteve

Check this out: http://www.factorymation.com/Products/FM50_115V/FM50-101-C.html 

It's $130 and has remote switching....no need to pay extra to get a waterproof VFD...that's probably for washdown situations. You'll find that they all recommend some sort of enclosure with ventilation...even the waterproof ones.


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## jumps4

ScubaSteve said:


> Check this out: http://www.factorymation.com/Products/FM50_115V/FM50-101-C.html
> 
> It's $130 and has remote switching....no need to pay extra to get a waterproof VFD...that's probably for washdown situations. You'll find that they all recommend some sort of enclosure with ventilation...even the waterproof ones.



steve


I was reading the specs on that drive and it is changing output voltage not output frequency, i think that would reduce power at lower speeds. when you go to their next higher priced unit it is changing frequency. i may have missed something but if thats true its not a good choice for a lathe that will be running at low speeds
steve


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## woodtickgreg

Scuba and Jumps, thank you for your feed back, it is appreciated. I called dealers industrial equipment and asked a lot of questions about the vfd, this is one area that I do not want to cheap out. I explained that I wanted a vfd that I could control with my drum switch, and that it would be in a dusty environment due to the fact that the lathe is in my wood shop, the fm50-101-n4 fits all my needs, it is esentially a fm50-101-c but in a nema4 enclosure, and has push button variable speed too. He said it did not need any other enclosure as it was a waterproof enclosed unit and was the model he recommended for a dusty environment. If I wanted to I could add a remote pot for a dial type variable speed if I wanted to, but I think the up/down push button will be fine. When I am doing wood work in my shop the lathe will be covered. Now I know I could make my own enclosure, and probably save a couple of bucks, but my time is stretched pretty thin these days. So a unit that is pretty much complete with a dust proof enclosure that just needs to be wired and programed is what I am looking for at this time. The extra expense is minor compared to the time it will save me. Also I thought about warranty if the need ever occured. Any thoughts on my explanation?


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## radial1951

jumps4 said:


> steve
> I was reading the specs on that drive and it is changing output voltage not output frequency, i think that would reduce power at lower speeds. when you go to their next higher priced unit it is changing frequency. i may have missed something but if thats true its not a good choice for a lathe that will be running at low speeds
> steve



Hi Steve, it was easy to miss the spec, but the output Frequency is controllable from 1-120Hz. Took a while to find the info. It would be fine for a lathe.

Regards, RossG
radial1951


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## ScubaSteve

woodtickgreg said:


> Scuba and Jumps, thank you for your feed back, it is appreciated....Any thoughts on my explanation?



It's definitely your decision to make, and since this would be probably one of the most important components, it makes sense not to cheap out. Good on ya for getting a 1 hp vfd...3 phase motors are cheap and it gives you room to upgrade if you want. 

I've used the GS1 class of drives from AutomationDirect.com and had really good results...they are pretty much equivalent to the TECO's. I guess if "waterproof" is equal to not needing an enclosure, then that sounds like a good deal. Enclosures can get expensive (they recommend a lot of internal space for heat dissipation) so if not needed then the extra $50 might be worth it for a drive like this.


----------



## jumps4

radial1951 said:


> Hi Steve, it was easy to miss the spec, but the output Frequency is controllable from 1-120Hz. Took a while to find the info. It would be fine for a lathe.
> 
> Regards, RossG
> radial1951



oh good, on all the other drives it was easy to find in the specs
yes that would work fine on a lathe, you dont need a lot of overdrive anyway
this is too nice of a build for any mistakes, ok were back on track  lol
steve


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## woodtickgreg

Well I picked up a gates k070 series belt and layed it on the pully, seems a little narrow so I am going to exchange it for a gates k080 series instead, they are just a little wider. Like Steve said, now is not the time to cheap out, do it right. I will post pics of the belt making when I get the right width.


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## itsme_Bernie

Damn that is beautiful!


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## woodtickgreg

It's been awhile since I updated the lathe project. My computer is on it's last leg and I have ordered a new one, which means there went my vfd money. So I worked on the belt instead. I purchased a gates serpentine belt, and some glue that sounded like great stuff when you read the package so I thought I would give it a try. Don't waste your money, didn't stick at all and I followed the instructions very carefully. I even roughed up the belt with some sandpaper and cleaned it with acetone. So off to the hardware store I went, tried the newest supper glue, same story, no sticky! I could pull it apart. I even tried an accelerator, no luck I tried a thin supper glue that I use for wood working, stuck better but it still pulled apart. I think this belt has a high silicone content to it as I could just peel the ca supper glue off.


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## woodtickgreg

I laid a plastic bag under the belt when glueing to keep the pullys clean and the glue stuck to the bag! But not the belt very well. I tried a thin ca that I use in my wood working and I thought I had it till I rolled the belt over to clean it, cleaned up nice, rolled it over and it seperated. Last pick is the thin ca.


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## woodtickgreg

So now I'm totally dissapointed and a little ****** off. I decided to just stich it old school but with a twist. Back to the hardware store, found some braided picture hanging wire, rated at 30lb. If it would accept solder I thought this could work, it fit in the grooves of the belt nice too. So I drilled some 1/16" holes 3/8" from the end and in the center of each rip. I tinned the end of the wire to see if it would accept solder and it did. tinning the end would keep it from unraveling as I fished it through the holes. As you can see it lays in the grooves nice, I do not think they will make any noice or very little if any.


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## Jeff in Pa

Great job Greg :drink2:    Now you have plenty of glue for other projects.  The belt turned out nice.


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## woodtickgreg

And here's how it looks from the top side. I soldered the 2 ends of the wires together so they should never come apart. This was so easy I will never mess around with trying to glue a belt again. How long will it hold up? We'll see, I'll keep you all informed after I get it powered up. It does track true by hand though, and tensioned up nice too.


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## AlanR

You could also use Kevlar string instead of wire, not so thick and more similar to the composition of the belt itself. Super strong.

But if the wire works well without thumping why worry?


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## ScubaSteve

How ironic....I came downstairs last night to hear my computer clicking uncontrollably...hard drive had a physical crash....so I feel your pain. 

Nice job on the belt...I have done this exact same thing (minus the soldering). Eventually the wire pulled "through" the belt...so watch for that.


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## woodtickgreg

ScubaSteve said:


> Eventually the wire pulled "through" the belt...so watch for that.



Yeah I thought about the wires pulling through the belt, I have heard that it's happened to others, some only went 1/4" in from the end and I don't think that leaves much material there for strength. I went in 3/8" from the end so I hope it holds up a little better, time will tell. I also think I may back off the tension a little and see how it runs when I get it wired up, I here these belts grip really good so I may not need as much tension as I have it set right now.


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## Rick Leslie

Greg, I've been lurking and learning since I've got an old (very old) Heavy 10 that needs some love. This thread makes me realize how neglected my poor SB really is.

 The belt issue was one I faced several times since I like to take heavy cuts and the belt doesn't. I found replacement belts online pretty reasonably priced, but the laces don't last long. They pull through. I finally went with an adjustable link belt for a V pulley. I just inverted it and run it inside out. It looks a little odd, but it will not fail. You can find them new and used online through the usual sources. I'm running a used one from the 'bay'.

I also have a dumb question: did you have to do anything to the spindle bearings? Mine are sadly worn and egged. I don't find any info on replacements online. Maybe my web-fu is weak.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Rick Leslie said:


> Greg, I've been lurking and learning since I've got an old (very old) Heavy 10 that needs some love. This thread makes me realize how neglected my poor SB really is.
> 
> The belt issue was one I faced several times since I like to take heavy cuts and the belt doesn't. I found replacement belts online pretty reasonably priced, but the laces don't last long. They pull through. I finally went with an adjustable link belt for a V pulley. I just inverted it and run it inside out. It looks a little odd, but it will not fail. You can find them new and used online through the usual sources. I'm running a used one from the 'bay'.
> 
> I also have a dumb question: did you have to do anything to the spindle bearings? Mine are sadly worn and egged. I don't find any info on replacements online. Maybe my web-fu is weak.



As far as the belt goes, I think I'll be ok, since the serpentine belts are wide and very grippy I think the key to not having them pull through is to back off the tension a little so they aren't so tight, that's my theory anyway, LOL Time will tell.
As far as the bearings go. Replacement spindle bearings are available but very pricey, better to look for a used set if needing replacement. Mine had some scoring that I could feel with my fingernail, I honed them. If yours are not to bad here is what I did. After dissassembly clean all bearing surfaces on the headstock and caps, install the bearings and caps with the bolts just finger tight so you don't crush the bearings. Insert a cylinder hone, the stone type, and turn by hand very slowly with a little oil for lube. Turn the hone just until the scratch pattern is uniform and goes all the way around, then clean off the oil and possible grit and polish with 600 grit paper by hand to polish the surfaces. I also buffed the spindle to polish it. This worked excellent for me, upon reassembly and a bearing lift test with the proper shim clearance I got .001" clearance. With the chuck installed and no belt tension if I give it a spin by hand I get 1 1/2 revolutions, spins very freely. Proper spindle bearing clearance is very important and you should take your time doing this and set it up correctly, the payoff is accuracy and longevity and well worth the time spent. Others here have done this and we are here to help and answer questions if needed. Fix that old south bend! You'll be glad you did. LOL


----------



## rafe

What a project.....Great!! I am looking forward to getting my 14.5 home this week ..not a lot of info on that size..you said earlier that the thread dial didn't line up ...?? did you mean the stop? I noticed that ....Mine does not have a thread dial and I'll be looking for one as well as new felts at some point....I'll most likely use it as i clean it up ....no major overhaul but ....yours  is looking real nice Thanks


----------



## woodtickgreg

rafe said:


> What a project.....Great!! I am looking forward to getting my 14.5 home this week ..not a lot of info on that size..you said earlier that the thread dial didn't line up ...?? did you mean the stop? I noticed that ....Mine does not have a thread dial and I'll be looking for one as well as new felts at some point....I'll most likely use it as i clean it up ....no major overhaul but ....yours  is looking real nice Thanks



No I meant the micrometer carriage stop, it was the wrong one for this lathe, I found a correct one. The first one didn't line up with the machined pad on the saddle. I highly recommend the felt kit off of ebay, very complete kit. I would also get the rebuild manual as it is a wealth of information and if you buy the 2 together you get them at a discount.


----------



## rafe

woodtickgreg said:


> No I meant the micrometer carriage stop, it was the wrong one for this lathe, I found a correct one. The first one didn't line up with the machined pad on the saddle. I highly recommend the felt kit off of ebay, very complete kit. I would also get the rebuild manual as it is a wealth of information and if you buy the 2 together you get them at a discount.



Didn't see one for the 14 1/2


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## woodtickgreg

rafe said:


> Didn't see one for the 14 1/2



I believe the kit is the same for the 10, 13, 14, and 16. Just send the seller a message and ask if it's the same. I think the 13 and 14 is the same but not sure. If the seller offers other kits he will reply.


----------



## Rick Leslie

Thanks for the tips on the bearings. I had even considered making a new set. Mine are fine vertically, but the horizontal push-off is visible when I take a heavy cut. Makes me nervous to watch the thread tool push the work away then start cutting. :bitingnails:  I plan on fixin' er up soon. I'm also watching those felt kits with manual.
Thanks again.


----------



## woodtickgreg

I ordered the vfd yesterday and it was shipped today. The switch is done as well, update pics coming soon when I get everything wired up.


----------



## SteveMcQ

Greg, as a complete beginner to the world of the metalshop, just wanted to let you know what an inspiration your restoral has been to read through.  Love to see things being given a new lease on life, and your attention to detail is outstanding. Fantastic job!


----------



## woodtickgreg

SteveMcQ said:


> Greg, as a complete beginner to the world of the metalshop, just wanted to let you know what an inspiration your restoral has been to read through.  Love to see things being given a new lease on life, and your attention to detail is outstanding. Fantastic job!



Steve, I'm glad you enjoyed my thread. I'm not a know it all and I learned a lot of things as I went along. I'm kinda a jack of all trades, master of none, LOL. If my work inspires others to do the same that's a good thing. It has been a very gratifying project that I am very proud of and I think others should do the same. These old machines are really very easy to work on if you take your time and do some research. I had some setbacks along the way, but nothing that couldn't be overcome. Thanks for the kind words, I really get a kick out of people enjoying my project.


----------



## ChuckB

A little late getting here, but I wanted to thank you for this excellent thread! You have taught me a lot. )


----------



## Splat

Greg, (or anyone else who'd know)  when you did your compound rest did yours have a little brass shoe/plug with a set screw on the side of the rest?  Like in this  pic (not mine)?


(EDIT) I got my answer over on Yahoo. It's simply a brass plug so the set screw doesn't bugger up the gib.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Splat said:


> Greg, (or anyone else who'd know)  when you did your compound rest did yours have a little brass shoe/plug with a set screw on the side of the rest?  Like in this  pic (not mine)?
> 
> 
> (EDIT) I got my answer over on Yahoo. It's simply a brass plug so the set screw doesn't bugger up the gib.



Funny! Yup mine had that.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

:man:

Greg, YOU DA MAN!!!!!!
your presentation is excellent, the lathe is absolutely beautiful. perfectly detailed job in all aspects.
thanks again for the inspiration as well as your words of encouragement.
i'll be interested to see your VFD !
mike


----------



## ChuckB

woodtickgreg said:


> Just so you guys don't think that I have been slacking, I have been working on the lathe when I can. Work has been just insane lately since I got back, working a full time job and a part time job takes a lot out of me sometimes but I gotta take it when I can. Here's some pics of what I have gotten done so far. Started with a dirty apron assembly and stripped it for a trip to the parts washer to clean it with wire brushes for a better inspection of the parts. The sump had some chips in it as expected but not to bad. I have seen some guys sumps just packed with crud! Everything looked real good and no surprises so I wire wheeled all the paint off and buffed up the handles in preperation for painting. got everything all masked off too. I did get the first coat of paint on today, hope to have some more pics next weekend!



Greg, am I missing something, but was your clutch assembly different than the one in the Guide to Renovating book? Mine is like yours and appears to have no thrust bearings and bushing.. it has that thin gear too.. (?) maybe I have over looked something?


----------



## woodtickgreg

ChuckB said:


> Greg, am I missing something, but was your clutch assembly different than the one in the Guide to Renovating book? Mine is like yours and appears to have no thrust bearings and bushing.. it has that thin gear too.. (?) maybe I have over looked something?
> 
> View attachment 51070


A lot of my parts where not exactly as shown in the book, you will probably find this with yours too. I am trying to nremember but I think that thin gear was not actually a gear, but the oil slinger.


----------



## Splat

ChuckB said:


> Greg, am I missing something, but was your clutch assembly different than the one in the Guide to Renovating book? Mine is like yours and appears to have no thrust bearings and bushing.. it has that thin gear too.. (?) maybe I have over looked something?
> 
> View attachment 51070



My 57 H10 didn't have the thrust bearing or bushing either. The toothed slim washer/gear is just what Greg said. It's simply an oil slinger to get oil around inside the apron. BTW, when reassembling the apron I kept the clutch tight so the inner splined gears would remain seated inside the clutch. If they come out of place you have to reopen the clutch to reseat them properly. It doesn't take more than 1-1/2 revolution of the knob/handle to loosen it up enough to where they'll move. That drove me nuts when I first finished the apron and tried to get everything back together only to find the clutch plates came out and moved around enough to not engage properly.


----------



## Restorer

To speed the stripping process use a gel stripper such as strippeze.  Glop on a thick coat 1/8 or more thick in a small area 6 X 6 to 10 X 10 and quickly cover with Saran Wrap.  Chemicals don't effect the Saran wrap.  Lift an edge and overlap the applications.  The volital solvents are trapped against the work.  When application is complete all over, wait 2 hours.  Start removing the wrap in the same approx. order as applied.  As the wrap is lifted most of will stick to it.  Immediatly wire brush the paint that is sticking to the machine and it will easily come off.

This reduces the fumes in the air as well.


----------



## ksierens

Beautiful job Greg, you should be very proud!


----------



## woodtickgreg

Today I was thinking what was I doing last year at this time? I was painting the lathe on the 4th of July in 100 degree plus heat. Then I thought, the lathe still is not done, I think this happens to a lot of us. Life and other projects get in the way sometimes. I am kinda caught up with other stuff and I really need the lathe so I guess it's time to get busy. I'll post a few pics of where I am at so far as I have made some progress since my last posting.
In the first pic you can see the lathe moved against the wall and in it's final resting place. I got a large sheet of aluminum from work for free so I put it on the wall for a backsplash. You can also see where the vfd is going to go at eye level to the left of the lathe. I also found this indexible tool holder in a bucket of scrap metal that I got from the guy I bought my burke mill from. I have to machine the clamp block, but I can do that on the burke! I took some pics of the holder and any numbers I could find on it, it's like new but missing a few screws. Anybody know anything about this holder?


----------



## woodtickgreg

This is the vfd I chose, a teco, suitable for wet environments. If it's waterproof it will be dust proof, and that's a good thing since it's in my wood shop. Another cool thing about it is it has a built in cooling fan inside the enclosure and a huge heat sink. It can run an external speed pot as well, maybe I'll do that later. The board that I am mounting it to the wall with is open in the back for air flow and cooling. I spent a little more for this unit but I do not have to build an enclosure for it and spend the money to do so, or take the time to do so. 110v single phase in, 220v 3 phase out. rated for 1hp but my motor is only 3/4hp. good to have a little cushion I think. The wire is pulled to power the vfd, just gotta hook it up. I have to buy some shielded wire to run from the vfd to the switch and the motor.


----------



## woodtickgreg

I have cleaned up the switch and contacts, painted the cover, and made a new top plate for the switch. I am a truck driver for a metal rolling company and I travel to a lot of different kinds of fab and welding shops. One shop that I go to a lot has a laser, I showed them the top plat that the paint had worn off of and asked if they could make one for me, they did. Just plain steel laser cut and etched, will outlast me, I buffed it a little. Kinda neet and just one of those little things. I also picked up a new junction box to mount on the outside of the base pedestal for the wiring.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

nice plate, the etching on the top looks good!
looks like you are ready to rock!


----------



## woodtickgreg

Ulma Doctor said:


> nice plate, the etching on the top looks good!
> looks like you are ready to rock!


Thanks Mike, almost ready. Tomorrow I have to install a new garage door opener as My old one gave up the ghost. Then I will make a list of the wire and other things I will need to finish the wiring of the vfd. I can't wait to get power to this thing and get it running, I hope all goes well with the vfd, rotary switch, and wiring. The Wire is already pulled from the breaker panel to the shop, just gotta connect everything up. Oh and I almost forgot, I gotta think about leveling it too.


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## rw1

Greg.

That is a spiffy little switch plate .....very cool.

I've been using my H10 a little bit now and then for the last 6 months and its been fun.  You will enjoy the little South Bend.  

I have to laugh a bit in the way we seem to think.  I too put a sheet metal back splash behind the lathe.  Mine is much more crude -- made from Air Duct Return cut in half ---  funny thing is it creates some little 4" wide shelfs to rest my oils and little stuff on.  That aluminum plate is First Class all way!

The pics are when I finally positioned the lathe back in January.  Making quite a few chips nowadays......  actually covered a bit with them right now!!:thumbsup:


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## itsme_Bernie

woodtickgreg said:


> I have cleaned up the switch and contacts, painted the cover, and made a new top plate for the switch. I am a truck driver for a metal rolling company and I travel to a lot of different kinds of fab and welding shops. One shop that I go to a lot has a laser, I showed them the top plat that the paint had worn off of and asked if they could make one for me, they did. Just plain steel laser cut and etched, will outlast me, I buffed it a little. Kinda neet and just one of those little things. I also picked up a new junction box to mount on the outside of the base pedestal for the wiring.
> 
> View attachment 56516
> View attachment 56517
> View attachment 56518



Holy crap that is totally cool!  Beautiful!  Wow!  You could sell those!  Looks like a lot of work- I guess it's not really cost-effective 

Great score man!


Bernie


----------



## itsme_Bernie

rw1 said:


> Greg.
> 
> That is a spiffy little switch plate .....very cool.
> 
> I've been using my H10 a little bit now and then for the last 6 months and its been fun.  You will enjoy the little South Bend.
> 
> I have to laugh a bit in the way we seem to think.  I too put a sheet metal back splash behind the lathe.  Mine is much more crude -- made from Air Duct Return cut in half ---  funny thing is it creates some little 4" wide shelfs to rest my oils and little stuff on.  That aluminum plate is First Class all way!
> 
> The pics are when I finally positioned the lathe back in January.  Making quite a few chips nowadays......  actually covered a bit with them right now!!:thumbsup:



Very pretty machine.  I think yours may be the same era as mine, just a bench model and I have a floor model.  Did you restore it to look so pretty?



Bernie


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## stevecmo

Hi Greg,

One nice thing about painting in 100 degree weather, the paint flows well.  )

Nice to see you're finally in the home stretch.  That VFD looks very sweet.  I've never used one of those four way tool holders.  I think they could be handy, but the quick change is really a must in my opinion.  

You have one great looking lathe!

Steve


----------



## woodtickgreg

stevecmo said:


> Hi Greg,
> 
> One nice thing about painting in 100 degree weather, the paint flows well.  )
> 
> Nice to see you're finally in the home stretch.  That VFD looks very sweet.  I've never used one of those four way tool holders.  I think they could be handy, but the quick change is really a must in my opinion.
> 
> You have one great looking lathe!
> 
> Steve


Yup, I'll probably upgrade to a Q C tool post at some time, but this one was free and of good quality. I think it will work fine for awhile.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Well I finally got some time to work on getting the south bend wired up, only to hit a couple of snags. First of I can't figure out how to wire the switch to the vfd, I posted in the electrical section on this for some help and advice. Second I can't find the proper wire that the vfd manual calls for, output 220 3 phase calls for 3 conductor 14awg shielded with ground, not a big box store item. I will have to go to an electrical supply house for the wire I suppose. I got the vfd mounted and a service disconnect installed before the vfd in case I ever have to service it. I pulled the motor back out of the pedestal to check and see if it was in fact wired for 220 and not 440, it was, had to be sure. No ground wire for the motor though, the wires look good and are not all dried out and falling apart. Got the switch mounted, just have to figure out how to wire it.


----------



## drs23

woodtickgreg said:


> Well I finally got some time to work on getting the south bend wired up, only to hit a couple of snags. First of I can't figure out how to wire the switch to the vfd, I posted in the electrical section on this for some help and advice. Second I can't find the proper wire that the vfd manual calls for, output 220 3 phase calls for 3 conductor 14awg shielded with ground, not a big box store item. I will have to go to an electrical supply house for the wire I suppose. I got the vfd mounted and a service disconnect installed before the vfd in case I ever have to service it. I pulled the motor back out of the pedestal to check and see if it was in fact wired for 220 and not 440, it was, had to be sure. No ground wire for the motor though, the wires look good and are not all dried out and falling apart. Got the switch mounted, just have to figure out how to wire it.


 
Greg,

Congratulations on a fantastic job of documenting the restoration of your Southbend Heavy 10 project. I read every word and enjoyed all the photos.

Good luck on getting the wiring sorted. I'm of no help there. Heck I have a hard enough time just flipping a light switch. With all the more than qualified folks on here you'll be up and running in no time.

Thanks again,

Dale


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## woodtickgreg

Today was a momentous occasion. I got the wiring of the vfd done and the switch wired up as well. I threw the switch for the first time and glory be, everything worked as it should. The old girl is alive again! I ran it for about a half hour with no load and the bearings didn't even get warm. I engaged everything forward and reverse, the back gear needs a little adjustment yet as it's to tight. The geartrain is a little noisy, I might be able to adjust that a little too. The belt I stitched up runs as quiet as can be. The gearbox and apron all work in all functions, the clutch works and I can't stop it if I grab one of the wheels while it's engaged. After months of working on her she's almost done! Very rewarding! I still need to get a 3 jaw chuck, get the tailstock set and dialed in, get the tool holder mounted, and then make some test cuts. I would say she's about 98% done. I'll get some picks up of the vfd soon, to damn tired tonight.


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## woodtickgreg

Here's a cople pics of the vfd and service disconnect. I just used a ac non fused service disconnect that I purchased at home depot for 6 or 8 bucks, it was cheap. I like the idea of the line being completely dead when you pull the link, that's very safe when you are working on the machine or the vfd. The vfd is very cool and washdown sealed, being dustproof is very important as my machines are also in my wood shop. I got to make some test cuts today and boy do I like this little lathe, it sure is fun to use and very rewarding after all the work I put into it, she is like new. I said all along that I intended to use her and not just make it look pretty. See the chips in the pan? I did play with the speeds and feeds a bit, I had the underdrive belt on the wrong pullys and turning to fast, I made test cuts in some high carbon hot rolled round bar with hss and carbide cutters. She seemed to give the best finish with a .010" depth of cut. The finish is not supper smooth but that may be the material. I will try some other materials and see how she does. The pic with the penny is the hss cutter. This was a unsupported cut as I don't have the tailstock set yet, Working up to that.







- - - Updated - - -

A couple more pics, the last one with the dime on it was with a brazed carbide cutter, it left a little rougher finish. I think I need to experiment with the spindle speed a little more for the carbide. I played with the lathe for a good bit today and made some chips, some where blue and very hot some not, got the lathe dirty with cutting oil and chips and had some fun. The spindle bearings never even got warm and that's a good thing. It was a very rewarding time today after all the work I put into her and finally being able to use it a little and test her out. Still more to come and need to get some things finalized like the tailstock, needs to be leveled, and a 3 jaw chuck.


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## george wilson

Congratulations!!! Fine job you have done. That is an early model SB,with the lever on top of the QC box. It probably won't run fast enough to properly use carbide. 

How accurate a straight bar will it cut,measured at each end and in the center for parallelism? I know you have said the ways were in good condition. If there is wear on the front way,there will be a little vertical "cliff" where the apron has "sunk"(worn) into the bed. Strange someone put Turcite on the apron if nothing was worn. Maybe they just did it to make the apron slide smoother? Not that they wouldn't slide smoothly in the first place. I think you're lucky someone did do that. It would save wear on the ways for sure.

If there's no scraping at all on the ways,I'm wondering if someone had the bed re ground at some point. On a lathe that early,there would be a scraped bed on it. If it was re ground,you are again very lucky. On old lathes,not only wear can happen,but I have seen beds warp. I rebuilt a Rockwell lathe not all that old. Probably from the 60's. Its bed had warped about .010" upwards near the tail end. I had to re cut the bed due to that and other wear. The bed was hardened,too.

I'm also wondering if the large dials on your machine were added later. I don't know offhand when large dials came out. They are a definite improvement over the very small ones found on earlier lathes.


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## woodtickgreg

george wilson said:


> Congratulations!!! Fine job you have done. That is an early model SB,with the lever on top of the QC box. It probably won't run fast enough to properly use carbide.
> 
> How accurate a straight bar will it cut,measured at each end and in the center for parallelism? I know you have said the ways were in good condition. If there is wear on the front way,there will be a little vertical "cliff" where the apron has "sunk"(worn) into the bed. Strange someone put Turcite on the apron if nothing was worn. Maybe they just did it to make the apron slide smoother? Not that they wouldn't slide smoothly in the first place. I think you're lucky someone did do that. It would save wear on the ways for sure.
> 
> If there's no scraping at all on the ways,I'm wondering if someone had the bed re ground at some point. On a lathe that early,there would be a scraped bed on it. If it was re ground,you are again very lucky. On old lathes,not only wear can happen,but I have seen beds warp. I rebuilt a Rockwell lathe not all that old. Probably from the 60's. Its bed had warped about .010" upwards near the tail end. I had to re cut the bed due to that and other wear. The bed was hardened,too.
> 
> I'm also wondering if the large dials on your machine were added later. I don't know offhand when large dials came out. They are a definite improvement over the very small ones found on earlier lathes.



Thanks for all the feed back George. I am told that this was one of the last lathes with the cast Iron pedestal, I don't know if that's true or not. There was no scraping anywhere on the ways, just the compound. The large dials are also an indicator that this was a later lathe, it serial dates to 1949 and the build card matches that year as well. I have not had the chance to check the accuracy yet, it's on the to do list. I have to level it yet and get the tail stock set. It Might go fast enough for carbide  I had to slow it down for hss to get a decent cut and not overheat the cutter. My set up right now is on the slower of the 2 underdrive pulleys, that gives me some good adjustment with the spindle pulleys. On the fast underdrive pully it really hums, although I don't really know what rpm. What I think really happened with this lathe, and it's just a guess, is that at some point someone did a half a** restore on it. they added the turcite for some reason, it seems to be a common practice with machine rebuilders around here and of the time. Then they did the poor job on the spindle bearings which pretty much ruined the lathe and probably made it useless. Then it sat unused for the rest of it's life in a building in Detroit forgotten about till I found it and saved it. That is why I believe the parts and gears where in such good condition and the apron was not packed with chips. Will it be perfect as far as bed wear? I don't know, I'll have to finish with the set up and testing and I will post my findings good or bad. I will say this, everything works as it should and it is fun to use so far, I am still learning it though.


----------



## george wilson

There was a machine shop around here which replaced the motor on a cast iron pedestal SB lathe with a 3450 RPM motor to get it to run faster. I'm sure that was not the best thing to do for the bronze bearings !


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## Jeff in Pa

Looks good Greg

 The finish you got with hot rolled steel is about as good as you're going to get.  Just "maybe" if the stars line up right and all your ducks are in a row, you may stumble onto a depth of cut and surface footage that gives a better finish but I woudn't count on it. 

 A better grade of steel with allow you to get a better surface finish.  Unless you need the additional strength, HRS will be just fine.

 Jeff


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## rafe

Yeah, that is really nice glad to see you cutting up with it


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## woodtickgreg

A couple more pics of the finish I got on the hot roll with a brazed carbide cutter, and not at it's faster speed, I still gotta try that. I also got a cheapie shars 6" 3 jaw chuck, for quicly chucking something up and turning it it will be just fine. It seems to be decent quality and smooth enough, nice finish on it. I mounted the backing plate and gave it a trueing cut , took 3 tries to make contact all the way around. took off about .012" ish. I have not checked it for runout yet. I still like the independent 4 jaw for accurately setting things up. Notice that there's chips on the lathe! I still have to get the tailstock set, but she's cutting!


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## Tony Wells

Greg, your journey has been an interesting one, and the results are evidence of the successful application of your skills and determination. A job well done. You'll get the finer points figured out, don't worry about that. It's always a bit of a learning experience with a new, or new to you machine. 

Plus the machine looks great! I have to ask though, how did you determine the chuck size for it? And what is that chuck size?


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## woodtickgreg

Tony Wells said:


> Greg, your journey has been an interesting one, and the results are evidence of the successful application of your skills and determination. A job well done. You'll get the finer points figured out, don't worry about that. It's always a bit of a learning experience with a new, or new to you machine.
> 
> Plus the machine looks great! I have to ask though, how did you determine the chuck size for it? And what is that chuck size?


Thanks Tony, the 3 jaw is a 6". The 4 jaw is an 8", I did not plan to buy an 8" it just came up for sale on craigslist with some other stuff, brand new and still packed in cosmoline and cheap. I will have to be careful with the 8" when the jaws are opened all the way, just roll it by hand to make sure I have clearance and don't hit the ways. Both seem to fit well, I like the mass of the 8". As far as how did I determine the size? Well by looking here at what others where running on there's.


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## drs23

Greg,

Love your updates. I followed this thread all the way from "I'm just gonna clean it up and run it" all the way through, well, today.

Fantastic effort and results.

I'm with Tony, that chuck looks HUGE on there! Did you notice any increase in vibration with either chuck or are they well balanced?

Again, great job!


----------



## woodtickgreg

drs23 said:


> Greg,
> 
> Love your updates. I followed this thread all the way from "I'm just gonna clean it up and run it" all the way through, well, today.
> 
> Fantastic effort and results.
> 
> I'm with Tony, that chuck looks HUGE on there! Did you notice any increase in vibration with either chuck or are they well balanced?
> 
> Again, great job!



Thanks, I did not notice any vibration with either chuck, even at high speeds, both seem to run true. IMO the mass seems to smooth things out and cancel vibration. But I agree the 8" looks really big, and the 6" seems to stick out farther, they do seem to run good though.
Next project is a wells bandsaw I recently picked up.)


----------



## drs23

woodtickgreg said:


> Thanks, I did not notice any vibration with either chuck, even at high speeds, both seem to run true. IMO the mass seems to smooth things out and cancel vibration. But I agree the 8" looks really big, and the 6" seems to stick out farther, they do seem to run good though.
> *Next project is a wells bandsaw I recently picked up*.)



Cool. Standing by to watch that project too!


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## Splat

Greg, do you remember what size shims you went with for your spindle? Thanks.


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## woodtickgreg

Splat said:


> Greg, do you remember what size shims you went with for your spindle? Thanks.



Hey buddie, read post #110 in this thread, I think it will answer your questions. Also look at a few post before and after that for some pointers.


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## HangLoose

Phenomenal rebuild!


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## Splat

Just wanted to extend a hearty THANK YOU to Greg for taking the time to post all his pics and all the accompanying info.   :yourock:


Hey Greg, how's that belt holding up so far?


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## woodtickgreg

Splat said:


> Just wanted to extend a hearty THANK YOU to Greg for taking the time to post all his pics and all the accompanying info.   :yourock:
> 
> 
> Hey Greg, how's that belt holding up so far?



I am glad you got some use out of the pics, kinda funny how I never imagined that other people would get use out of my pics when I posted them. If I had known that people would be using them as a reference I would have been a little more detailed.  The belt is holding up well, very grippy and quiet too, it doesn't require a lot of tension either. How did the shims work for You ?, sounds like you did ok.


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## Splat

woodtickgreg said:


> I am glad you got some use out of the pics, kinda funny how I never imagined that other people would get use out of my pics when I posted them. If I had known that people would be using them as a reference I would have been a little more detailed.  The belt is holding up well, very grippy and quiet too, it doesn't require a lot of tension either. How did the shims work for You ?, sounds like you did ok.



Shims are in and I got her within tolerance so..so far so good.    Oh, a PM's on the way to ya about the shims.  I think I'm gonna try your method on a belt, probably the same one. Just gotta check the length needed but I like what you did there with soldering the ends. Looks pretty secure to me and should last a long while. Looking forward to trying it.


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## jeff_g1137

Hi
this is a great thread & a great job on the lathe.

                                       :thumbsup:             




good look with the lathe & have a good time playing with it, i would.


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## Splat

Greg, did you secure the lathe to the floor somehow or do you have it just sitting on the leveling bolts?


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## woodtickgreg

Splat said:


> Greg, did you secure the lathe to the floor somehow or do you have it just sitting on the leveling bolts?



It's just sitting on the leveling bolts, I have been using it and she's stable and not moving. I have heard good and bad things about rubber or neoprene leveling feet, I thought about using them but it works well without them. 
I gotta say this, this lathe is an absolute joy to use, it is quite the reward for my efforts and time. The belt is silent and grippy as well in case you where wondering about that. It just tickles me to oil her up and use it for a day and see the oil dripping from all the shafts and know it is getting oil and working as it should. How's your lathe coming along tony?


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## itsme_Bernie

Splat said:


> Greg, did you secure the lathe to the floor somehow or do you have it just sitting on the leveling bolts?



Hey Splat-

I just have mine sitting on the leveling feet.  I have a 1965 floor model, which does not have a case iron stand, but a square, 3/8 inch bent steel stand.  But not a bench model.  It never moves at all.

By the way, how do you like your Teco NEV-101-H1 vfd?  Is it quiet?  Does the motor squeal or whine?  My older Teco VFD is great, but can make certain motors whine a bit.  I swap the VFD between machines.

Thanks!


Bernie


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## Maxx

Just spotted this thread, a mighty long read..... 
Excellent work and I really like the light, except for the reflector style it is quite like mine.

BTW, the rental place wants their swarf back! :LOL:


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## woodtickgreg

some vids I just shot of the southbend. I have a lot to learn about taking vids.





Oh well if anyone is interested I posted some vids on you tube as woodtickgreg titled south bend lathe.


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## woodtickgreg

What if I try it this way?




Ah Ha! That worked.


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## Kroll

Woodtick I was or am reading page #4 where you made some shims for your spindle.The front spindle cap where you made shims is the thickness the same on both sides?I now understand that the front spindle cap may be shim different than the back cap since trying to achieve .001 on both ends.You did a good job of explaining how to properly adjust the spindle so thank you.I like your ideal of using the scroll saw to cut the brass,I will give that a try also.Woodtick is the brass available at hardware stores such as Ace?----kroll


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## woodtickgreg

Kroll said:


> Woodtick I was or am reading page #4 where you made some shims for your spindle.The front spindle cap where you made shims is the thickness the same on both sides?I now understand that the front spindle cap may be shim different than the back cap since trying to achieve .001 on both ends.You did a good job of explaining how to properly adjust the spindle so thank you.I like your ideal of using the scroll saw to cut the brass,I will give that a try also.Woodtick is the brass available at hardware stores such as Ace?----kroll



I started with the same thickness shim packs on both sides, but I don't remember if they stayed the same, depends on what the lift test readings where. The object was to get between .0007" and .001" of clearance after everything was tightened down and bearing spreaders tight also. The shim material can be purchased from an industrial supply like Enco, Mcmaster, etc. It can be purchased in packs with many sheets all of different thicknesses. If you cut them on a scroll saw like I did cut them in small bundles so they can be taped together to keep them flat while cutting and so the material has less tendency to catch on the blade. file or scrape the edges smooth before using them. Use a good shim as a pattern and cut a whole stack of shims all at once, put the thicker shims on the outside and the thin ones in the middle off the stack.


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## 612smanderson

Truly love this project.  The Photos are inspirational.  Makes me Want to go through one of my macines again. (~;


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## woodtickgreg

612smanderson said:


> Truly love this project.  The Photos are inspirational.  Makes me Want to go through one of my macines again. (~;


Thank you, it was so worth it doing the restore. I was running the south bend all day today, chip pan has been filled and emptied of chips a couple of times now. She's a joy to use. I think the lathe is my favorite tool of all my tools.


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## ijustamisall

Beautiful.Good Job.:man:


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## woodtickgreg

We changed our server since I did this thread and it converted all the pics to thumbnails, I hate thumbnails! So I just went through and reinserted them all as full size pics. Was kinda cool, I haven't looked at this thread for quite some time and I was enjoying the trip back in time. Since I did this rebuild I moved, tore the lathe down again, out of one basement piece by piece and into another one. The good thing was I knew how to do it! I still say I know this machine better than any that I own and she is still my pride and joy. The good thing is the new shop is separated for the wood shop and machine shop, now I can do either craft at the same time and not have to worry about sawdust sticking to my metal machines. Kinda cool having 2 separate shops in my basement, my ultimate man cave, lol.


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## Ski

Sweet ! Makes me want to do another one.


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## dlane

Thanks for updating the pics, thumbnails are useless to me .


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## razinman

Hi Woody,

                       We spoke some time ago, you got the same one that I bought 7 months ago, about half-way done
but it doesn't look as good as yours GREAT LATHE* GREATER PRICE !
   Good luck with your reno..............Razin


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## ChuckB

Bringing this excellent thread back to the top. It has been very helpful to me.

Great work Greg!!


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## woodtickgreg

You have no idea how much it pleases me when I hear people say that this thread has helped them. When I got the lathe, and knew nothing about it, and started taking pics of it as I worked on it, I never imagined that it would have become a full on restore thread that it became. I love seeing other guys working on their lathes and watching them come together, knowing that my thread was of some help to them is pretty darn cool! 
Thank you for the kind words Chuck!


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## ChuckB

Rereading your thread and the beginning posts, the questions you asked were so basic. As time went on, you became quite the 10L expert! Thanks again Greg.


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## Splat

Just looked at every page in this thread again. I can't believe it's been 4 years already. Actually you and I got ours within a few days of each other, Greg!  Seeing this thread and thinking about my own Heavy 10 refurb makes me bust out a   .

I  and  take my hat off to you and anyone (including myself ) else that takes on such a tedious, yet rewarding, challenge of refurbing these old beauties.


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## woodtickgreg

Tony thank you, I watched your work on your lathe with great enthusiasm and I enjoy seeing anyone's work on their lathes, or any machine for that matter. The funny thing is if you read this thread from the start I really didn't know anything about my heavy 10. I think a lot of us are like that, we just learn as we go along and fix things as we find them. I have had guys contact me and ask me for advice and help on their lathes, I never expected that to happen. It thrills me when I can help someone with their lathe. 4 years? really? I moved 2 years ago, had to take the lathe apart to move it, at least I new how to do that and how everything works. I still do not have the metal shop done, the wood shop is almost done so the metal shop will be next and the South Bend will live again. I really do need to use her. 4 years...............


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## Splat

Greg, I was in the same boat. I only knew what I read about lathes. Geez, forget refurbishing...I never even used one before! But yeah brother, we learned a lot though, didn't we? This place was definitely a major help and I thank everyone who takes the time to post help for others. God bless you and everyone else here for their time and effort! Geez, you moved 2 years ago already?! I remember you talking briefly about that. I know how it goes but come on, brother! Get a move on! Your Heavy 10....she's calling your name pal. She says, "Come back to me...I'm getting rusty again..."


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## woodtickgreg

Here's a couple of older pics of the heavy 10 after taking it apart and moving it again. This is the new metal shop side of the basement. at this point I was still working on it and still am but it is coming along nicely and the south bend is in a good spot.


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## razinman

Woodtick,

                 Looks great , u have a nice setup, enough room to do a lots of work(I see your SBL oils- too)
   Regards........Raz


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## woodtickgreg

I just went back and looked at this thread again, I can't believe it has been 6 years. A lot has happened to me since then. Scored more machines, filled the shop and garage with salvaged metals, got a new job that has me working 12 hour days, and that leaves no time for the shop, but it has gone a long way to getting me back on my feet after the divorce. If I can make it till the end of the year I'll be able to cut back on some overtime and ramp up the shop time. Very cool to read my old thread again, I knew nothing about the southbend when I got it, now it's my favorite machine!


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## Skowinski

Just saw this thread and read through it....  Wow, really amazing job on the restoration!  I'm just starting on a 9" cabinet model I picked up, and hope I can end up in the same ballpark as yours.


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## Rick Berk

I;m tying to install two 45 degree GITS oil cups into a saddle of a heavy 10 with no luck. they came out 2 years ago and I cannot get them started and no way to drive them in. Any suggestions? Thanks.


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## woodtickgreg

Rick Berk said:


> I;m tying to install two 45 degree GITS oil cups into a saddle of a heavy 10 with no luck. they came out 2 years ago and I cannot get them started and no way to drive them in. Any suggestions? Thanks.


I did not remove those on mine for that very reason. Some thoughts are to check the i.d. of the hole and the o.d. of the tube to see how close they are. You may have to open up the hole or sand the tube to get them closer. You may also need to make a clamp to tap on to hold the tube while you tap on it.


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## mmcmdl

Excellent thread along with a now beautiful lathe .  I could live with my worn bed if I could get it to look this good .


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## mmcmdl

I can see this thread is going to cost me some time and $$$$$$$ .


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## woodtickgreg

mmcmdl said:


> I can see this thread is going to cost me some time and $$$$$$$ .


Only a little, but it will so be worth it! And it will increase its value and make it a joy to use. I know this machine better than any machine I own, it has truly become my favorite machine.


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## mmcmdl

Greg , gonna put you to work . 4 ft bed , serial number 6812RKR13 . Undermount , 1" spindle bore .Came from Carey Machine tool Sales in Baltimore . I'm familiar with Carey as it was around when " I was around " . 

Have an idea as to what year it was manufactured ? Thanks , Dave .


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## woodtickgreg

I'm no expert on the serial numbers but a 1" bore tells me it's a 10k or heavy 9. If you really want to know about your lathe order a copy of the serial number card from Grizzly, itll tell you everything about your lathe. As far as I can tell your lathe was made after 1947, more likely between 50 and 55, but that's just a guess. Another good source for southbend info is www.swwells.com


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## mmcmdl

Thanks , I was being lazy . I think there are some threads on HM that I can trace the info . I do know it's a heavy 10 for sure .


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## woodtickgreg

mmcmdl said:


> Thanks , I was being lazy . I think there are some threads on HM that I can trace the info . I do know it's a heavy 10 for sure .


Then it will have the 1 7/8" spindle bore.


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## mmcmdl

woodtickgreg said:


> Then it will have the 1 7/8" spindle bore.



Uh oh . Now you have me corn fuzed !


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## woodtickgreg

mmcmdl said:


> Uh oh . Now you have me corn fuzed !


It may be a 10k, only way to know for sure is to measure the spindle bore. On the gear cover on the left end of the machine there may be a model number tag?


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## mmcmdl

What's the difference ?


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## woodtickgreg

mmcmdl said:


> What's the difference ?


Other than the bore pass through not much.


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## mmcmdl

OK . Yes , there are badges but they are worn off . Spindle bore is 1.030" .


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## woodtickgreg

mmcmdl said:


> OK . Yes , there are badges but they are worn off . Spindle bore is 1.030" .


Im thinking you either have a heavy 9 or a 10k, ordering the serial  number card from Grizzly will tell you exactly what you have, what year it was made, and even who it was sold to. I think mine was like $20 or so, well worth it imo.


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## mmcmdl

Thanks Greg . It's too cold out in the garage to look into it . It's another spring project .  I'm following along the SB threads now .


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## silverhawk

mmcmdl said:


> OK . Yes , there are badges but they are worn off . Spindle bore is 1.030" .





woodtickgreg said:


> Im thinking you either have a heavy 9 or a 10k, ordering the serial  number card from Grizzly will tell you exactly what you have, what year it was made, and even who it was sold to. I think mine was like $20 or so, well worth it imo.



The "RKR" in the serial number indicates that it is a heavy 10 in the 10R instantiation (the first "R" in that serial # indicates heavy 10, the K is for "gear box", and the second R is the spindle, hence a heavy 10R).  Mine is an "RKL", or a 10L.  The 10L had a 2 1/4"-8 thread, while the 10R had a 1 7/8"-8 thread.  Remember, that is an outside diameter for the thread, not an inside diameter for a through hole.  10R's also had about a 1" through-hole in the spindle if I recall.  The 10L's supposedly had a larger through hole than the 10R's, but I've never really measured mine. I've heard rumors that you could swap the spindle between a 10L and a 10R, and that it was the primary difference between the two.

Greg is pointing you to getting the serial number card.  That is the best advice you can get, really.  I think they go for about $25, now.

This thread resurrection is actually fairly timely.  My heavy 10 project is just getting started.  I gotta read back through this again.


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## mmcmdl

Thanks Hawk for the clarification on numbers . So it is a Heavy 10 , and yes it does have the 1.030 spindle bore . I got out to the garage yesterday actually and had a chance to look it over . Decided I'm going to unload it . I would love to take it on as a project but I have bigger fish to fry at the moment . I'll post it in the machines for sale section here and then on CL in a weeks time .


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