# Why I am back.



## HMF (Mar 2, 2018)

Dear Members:

It had been my intention to leave the day-to-day operation of this forum in the hands of Gator, 4GSR, and Terry.
This was so that I could finally get my tiny shop constructed, organized, and my machines running.
Over the past 7-1/2 years, I have not been able to do so. My primary focus was this site.
The agreement was that I would continue to handle the behind the scenes technical work, and the legal and filings.
The profile of Hobby Mac was actually me addressing your technical issues such as the login issue, and fixing it.
I would remain as president of the not for profit corporation that runs the site, and attend board meetings.
I had a profile for those activities that did not post on the site, Liam.
All of the corporations filings, agency listings, and other legal documents indicate me as the agent.
The address of the corporation is my home.
Thus, I am still legally involved and responsible for what transpires here.
It was my hope that sound leadership would make my desire to turn this over possible.

However, it was noted that many of the board members and moderators had stopped participating.
I was at a loss to figure it out.
I recently learned that, behind the scenes, the three admins were running the forum without submitting things to the board.
They were also criticizing the few things that I did do on the site, in what I feel was an attempt to drive me off.
They wanted to make major changes to the structure and organization of the site, and planned privately to do so.
If I were gone, they would be able to do so without submitting anything to the board for their approval.

The operation of this site by circumventing the board of directors, and discussing their ideas in emails, telephone calls, and private messages is a violation of our bylaws, and is a breach of fiduciary duty on the part of the board members involved. These include the three individuals named above, along with Bill Gruby, who was present in the discussion of major changes to the site which were not submitted to the board for approval. It is no small wonder that other board members and staff felt that they were left out. They were.

I am saddened by this turn of events. I had hoped that the site had a sound succession plan for the site that was not dependent upon me as its founder. That is not possible. Accordingly, the board of directors is hereby discharged due to the actions of these four directors.
I will resume the position of administrator of the site, and continue as president of the corporation.
The corporate structure will change to reflect the realities of what transpired here.

To those of you who might otherwise hesitate to utilize the site because I am in charge of it, I want you to know this.
I bear no grudges against anyone. I welcome everyone here. If you were banned and wish to return, and agree to follow the rules, return and be welcome. If you have any doubts, just contact me, and we will speak at support@hobby-machinist.com.

The mission of this forum was, is, and will continue to be that we are "The Friendly Machinist Forum."

Nelson


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## hermetic (Mar 2, 2018)

Well said Nelson!


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## wrmiller (Mar 2, 2018)

Welcome back Nelson. 

I had my suspicions that something was going on, but they were only that.

I was actually scouring the web for a alternate site recently, in preperation for abandoning this site entirely. And now I don't have to. Thank you.

I do hope that you can find folks to help with the management of the site, so you can get your shop up and running. There has to be a few willing folks out there. Somewhere...


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## HMF (Mar 2, 2018)

wrmiller said:


> Welcome back Nelson.
> 
> I had my suspicions that something was going on, but they were only that.
> 
> ...




Bill,

I am just curious, why were you going to abandon the site?

And.....are you volunteering? LOL

Nelson


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## wrmiller (Mar 2, 2018)

Just some comments being made here and there (yes, I'm being intentionally vague...  )

And...it would depend on what you need help with.


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## barnett (Mar 2, 2018)

It's a shame things didn't work out like you wanted ! I for one am very appreciative for the site and all of the invaluable information and experience offered to non-machinist hobbyist on here.


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## benmychree (Mar 2, 2018)

I support your mission.


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## Billh50 (Mar 2, 2018)

I had noticed a slight change in things here and was just waiting to see what was going on. I couldn't quite put my finger on what was going on so thought I would wait and see.


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## extropic (Mar 2, 2018)

Nels,
All of the "behind the scenes" actions that you wrote of went completely over my head (no clue) so I have no comment on them.
I'm very sad to see Terrywerm has gotten caught up in these goings on. I have a high opinion of his style and contributions that I've run across. I thought he was an ideal member. Very sad indeed.


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## ttabbal (Mar 2, 2018)

I'm new around here, so there's no reason to really trust me with things.... That said, if you really need technical help I can offer some time. My background is mostly programming and systems admin. I would hate to see the site go downhill due to lack of help. I've seen a few groups/sites have similar issues and it's very sad to see. Hopefully things get better. 

I guess I could moderate the general "friendly forum" type stuff, but being new to machining, I couldn't really evaluate posts for accuracy. It doesn't seem like that's really the way of things around here, but it's only fair to mention it.


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## bfd (Mar 2, 2018)

nelson I have been a machinist since 1979 (apprentice since 1975 until now and beyond ) worked as a naval shipyard machinist then power plant machinist since 1980 retired now. If you think that I could help you I would volunteer as a teaching moderator. spent the last 10 years at work teaching machinist apprentices bill


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## dlane (Mar 2, 2018)

I thought all four were doing a good job with the site.
Are they still members ?.


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## Richard King 2 (Mar 2, 2018)

Nelson I am glad to be back as I missed this forum.  I am years older and wiser.  As Bill said...I am a clean slate.  I hope that goes for you too. 
I apologize for my actions years ago.  I hope you continue to use the commercial format as I signed up as.  As you can see I have been helping in the rebuilding section and I have no desire to be a moderator.  I now teach in person and on the forums and like taking the summers off.   If your up in Wisconsin next summer and would like to go fishing for a Muskie let me know .  I have a huge cabin with a couple of spare bedrooms.  Rich


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## royesses (Mar 2, 2018)

Welcome back Nelson. We missed ya. Sorry you had to come back under the circumstances but sometimes changes just don't work out the way we want. I am grateful to you for starting this forum and keeping it friendly.

Thank You
Roy


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## HMF (Mar 2, 2018)

dlane said:


> I thought all four were doing a good job with the site.
> Are they still members ?.



At the present time, Bill Gruby is still an active member and global moderator.
Before this happened, Terry got furious and resigned as everything other than a member.
Gator posted a very furious message in the staff section expressing his anger that I stepped into a dispute he caused with a new member.
Ken's account is unharmed, but in limbo right now.
The accounts have not been removed or anything drastic, but they cannot be accessed until there is some understanding.
If you have been on this site awhile, you know that I do not dominate the discussions, or even participate.
I know absolutely nothing about machining, and, after 7-1/2 years running this place, I was on a mission to learn something when this happened..


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## rock_breaker (Mar 2, 2018)

Nelson,
Thank you for establishing this website. It is a very valuable source of information and provides a "community" setting for me. Being able to get the wisdom of experienced machinists is a great feature.  I certainly hope that this  website policy doesn't deteriorate.


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## HMF (Mar 2, 2018)

Richard King 2 said:


> Nelson I am glad to be back as I missed this forum.  I am years older and wiser.  As Bill said...I am a clean slate.  I hope that goes for you too.
> I apologize for my actions years ago.  I hope you continue to use the commercial format as I signed up as.  As you can see I have been helping in the rebuilding section and I have no desire to be a moderator.  I now teach in person and on the forums and like taking the summers off.   If your up in Wisconsin next summer and would like to go fishing for a Muskie let me know .  I have a huge cabin with a couple of spare bedrooms.  Rich




Richard,

Life is too short to hold any grudges- everyone is welcome, and I mean that sincerely.

If you speak to Keith Rucker, I am very interested in working with him in some way.
Cross-links are definitely welcome. I'd like to have him put some of his videos in our video library instead of YouTube. And I would like to pay you guys a small honorarium to make us some videos of your skills. 

Nelson


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## Billh50 (Mar 2, 2018)

As a toolmaker for years in small shops I feel I know how to do some things with very little tooling. As most of the small shops had less tooling than I had. Therefore I will continue to help those that I can and have in the past. I have not posted much lately because of health issues but I do check in often so will try to do more for the members if I can.


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## jfcayron (Mar 2, 2018)

Hi Nelson,
Glad to see you back, sorry it did not go as you planned.
We are behind you.


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## woodchucker (Mar 2, 2018)

I hadn't noticed any changes. I guess  I'm not sure how one would see the difference. Sorry Nels but things seem to be the same with or without you.  Hope you get your shop in order.  As someone who admins a volleyball program and has been an officer in a few clubs, I know it's a thankless job.


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## zmotorsports (Mar 2, 2018)

WOW.  I didn't realize this was even going on.

I've been away for nearly a year while moving and building my new shop and only pop in once in a while.  I thought I would come on today and try to be more active again now that I have a shop to work in again.

I didn't realize there was all of this drama going on.

Mike


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## Alan H. (Mar 2, 2018)

Thanks Nelson, I am glad this is all finally out in the open.  I tried to send you a P.M. but that is evidently not possible.  Is that correct?


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## HMF (Mar 2, 2018)

zmotorsports said:


> WOW.  I didn't realize this was even going on.
> 
> I've been away for nearly a year while moving and building my new shop and only pop in once in a while.  I thought I would come on today and try to be more active again now that I have a shop to work in again.
> 
> ...




Mike,

Actually no drama, I am not angry, nor do I hate anyone. Life is just too damn short.

It's hard for some people to deal with power, even in running a relatively insignificant little web site.
I have been working hard to reconstruct my tiny 8x10 shop area, put plywood on the walls, built in shelving, etc.
Every weekend I haul butt and complete something else.
When I am done, I will star putting the machines - the lathe and 2 mills back together.


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## Richard King 2 (Mar 2, 2018)

Being a Moderator is much like this anology.

Years ago I was at a meeting of the youth Baseball league and signed up my son.  They asked if anyone wanted to be a coach?   No one stepped forward so I finally said I would.  Bad mistake...lol.  Everything was great until I had to pull out a few players to put in subs.  The parents went nuts.   Then one day before a league game the umpire didn't show up so the other teams coach and I flipped a coin to see who would ump the game.
I won....or could say I lost..lol...  On a close call at first on one of our players I called him out.  That kids Dad came up to the fence and screamed I thought you were on our side!!    I took off the mask and said come here and you ump....then he shut up.   I never volunteered again.

Moderating sounds good, but your bound to tick someone off....be prepared.. No one is perfect or a robot we all make mistakes time to time.

The stress now would give me a heart attack.   I am happy helping and supporting the forum.  I have no desire to get involved or know anything about the inner working of the site.   I am super happy that you do have rules as one of the other forums I write on has become a nightmare.

Nelson write me and I will email Keith and cc You to introduce you.   He is a wonderful man.  Rich


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## brasssmanget (Mar 2, 2018)

Wow - guess I live under a rock or something.........never saw it coming at all.

Oh well......I still like it here, and I am a hobby machinist at best, so I'll stay as long as I am allowed.


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## Silverbullet (Mar 2, 2018)

Missed it , but it was changing some , just was different . Sorry it happened to you Nels , really tuff cause you lose faith in the ones entrusted to carry on. I'm not much anymore but I had good instructors in vocational school. And some very good machinist in the places I apprenticeshiped in. Very well schooled in many facets of being a machinist. From general to government contracts in war armament missiles and more. Titanium , monel , lots of hard to work with metals . Even to the point of some specialised welding . I offer what I can , I'm also completely disabled in pain if I sit up. With that I'm on this tablet many hours daily. I don't have enough money for bills so I can not be a sponsor or I would. 
Again my greatest thanks for this site , I'm on several others , but this is the best . God bless you and this will pass to many good men on here to not be there for you.


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## David S (Mar 2, 2018)

Nelson,

I saw this, this morning and I was awestruck.  My emotions were all over the map.  I have mulled this over all day.  This is my favourite site, it feels like family here.  We can joke, be supportive, pass on knowledge, gently nudge folks that deviate from our mission.

When you described what has happened it was like a dear one has cheated on me.  I had so much respect for all that were running this site, that this news was personally devastating.  If they acknowledge that there were mistakes made and they have reformed, then I would like them back.  We need dedicated talent to keep this site vibrant and more important friendly.

All the best

David


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## silverhawk (Mar 2, 2018)

Nelson said:


> zmotorsports said:
> 
> 
> > WOW. I didn't realize this was even going on.
> ...



With the type of people you have on here, perhaps we have people in your area that could help get the shop put together with you?


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## Mark_f (Mar 2, 2018)

Nelson,

I noticed changes but had no idea all this drama was going on. It saddens me greatly to hear all this. This is the only decent site I have ever seen. You should be proud of what you have built here. This forum is amazing. This place is a family and has helped me one way or another since I joined. I will help you any way I can. I have been dealing with a lot lately as you know, but life is back on track. My health will not let me machine in my shop right now ( I am waiting for a diagnosis to know how bad things are) but I can teach and answer machining questions till I get back in the shop. I owe you and so many others here a debt of gratitude, so count me in to help where I can. I would like to see the site continue and flourish.


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## dtsh (Mar 2, 2018)

David S said:


> If they acknowledge that there were mistakes made and they have reformed, then I would like them back.  We need dedicated talent to keep this site vibrant and more important friendly.


I'm still quite new and I wasn't going to comment here, but I did want to echo this sentiment. We all make mistakes and we are all foolish sometimes, but I think it's very important to not only admit when we've made an error, but be willing to accept error in others.

I hope the rift can be mended, but if it cannot be gotten past I hope it doesn't deprive the community from the valuable insights which these people had to offer, be it their decision or that of another.


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## JohnnyTK (Mar 3, 2018)

As a newbie, I will say you have created a wonderful site that has helped me on my journey of knowledge. So many great people have shared ideas and thoughts with me on questions posed. And from this sharing, I have learned so many things and also have been presented with a whole new series of questions and ideas that allow me to improve my skills and explore other areas related to machining. Keep up the work and I will continue to support this great site.


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## mikey (Mar 3, 2018)

Nelson, to say I am shocked by this is an understatement. I must be particularly numb because I had no idea that the site was being run in a manner inconsistent with the bylaws of the site. I am particularly shocked because of the individuals involved. My impression of Terry, Gator and Ken has been very positive. All have been helpful to, and supportive of, everyone and I saw no evidence of "heavy-handedness" that someone mentioned by any of them. 

With that said, if they circumvented the Board and yourself, and especially if they sought to limit your involvement in the site beyond your desires, then your actions are totally understandable and appropriate. This behavior on the part of the mods involved seems so out of character that I admit to being totally at a lost to explain it. I am saddened that this happened and sorry that you were forced to take such drastic action. 

As you well know, I have been your supporter for many years and will continue to be. You have created a forum to be proud of. It is truly unlike any other machining forum I am aware of in that it is truly "friendly" to everyone. I hope that this hurdle is passed over quickly; I'm sure it is very stressful for you and you have had more than your share of that to deal with. 


Mike


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## HMF (Mar 3, 2018)

Tony Wells will return to help me sort everything out.  Tony is a very level-headed person, who is not prone to act in haste. He has already given me his opinion on the situation, since he was here, and observed everything. Rest assured that everything will be set right. We will move forward.

We could use some new moderators to volunteer, because we lost a few due to natural attrition, people getting busy, having other issues in their lives that take precedence, etc. What Richard said about moderation is 100% on the money- it is a thankless, difficult job that creates enemies from friends. Luckily, we have good people here, and 90% of what we need in moderators is knowledge of machining and the ability to be patient and teach others.

I don't want to air any more of the unfortunate details of what transpired than I need to in order to advise the members. I am not angry or even upset at all. I simply view this as a failed effort. In the interim, I have done some work renovating my small shop area and getting some of the machine parts together for reassembly. I will post some photos in the shop photos area when I get a chance. 

As today is Saturday, it is one of my two work days during the weekend.  That big nor'easter just passed through last night, so I am going to be making another built-in shelf outside on the patio, so I don't get yelled at by SWMBO.


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## The_Apprentice (Mar 3, 2018)

Well this has been quite an informative post. I still consider myself a newbie here since I only joined last year, when I decided to get back into machining again. (Used to work and play in my father's machineshop during my teens).

I never knew of any drama or politics going on, but I do find it very interesting how the forum is tied into a registered corporation. I find it actually kind of neat. 

That said, I assume the others who hid things from the board were still acting in what they thought was the best interest for the forum.

I had looked at other machining groups for hobbyist last year, and examined them for total amount of posts per day, and how the environment was, etc. This was one of the top forums that stood out for me, so hence I've been parked here ever since. The long periods where I had not posted anything was mostly because I was not machining because I had to wait months for certain parts on backorder to arrive. Ahah!


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## mmcmdl (Mar 3, 2018)

Hm ..............never paid much attention to the dealings going on within the site , but this is STILL the best site to learn . It is friendly . I posted a thread awhile back that was taken out of context by a few but it was removed thank god ! I'll soon be a hobby machinist myself !


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## MozamPete (Mar 3, 2018)

Nels, you were running the show when I joined  and I appreciate the site you have made so much. Sorry the change in administration didn’t work out for the site as you had desired.
Glade to see you would step up, despite the obvious impacts on your personal plans, to keep the site as you had originally intended. Would be sorry to see the other moderators leave over this though - their experience and opinions are so appreciated by us beginners.


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## Old Mud (Mar 3, 2018)

Nelson, as you posted this, "As today is Saturday, it is one of my two work days during the weekend.  That big nor'easter just passed through last night, so I am going to be making another built-in shelf outside on the patio, so I don't get yelled at by SWMBO" . are you in New England ? close to Maine ? If so i could lend a hand with helping you set up your shop.
Just to join what others here have said. This really is the best internet site i have had the pleasure of being part of.

  Thank you.


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## Cactus Farmer (Mar 3, 2018)

I am no computer tech guy! I felt something was wrong but couldn't tell just what. I am however a fair gunsmith and have done a few jobs that were hard to tell from magic! Now, there is a fellow on LI that has invited me to visit his home for some one on one instruction, and on his dime! I know NY,NY is a big place but I'm from Texas where we measure distances in time, I will find you. IF I except this members gracious offer I fully expect you to find time to at least shake my hand! ( That's a big deal down here!) My back has finally quit working without excruciating pain so surgery is next the step. Then we will see if there is any way to stand and do some magic!  P.S. Glad you are back my friend!!!


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## HMF (Mar 3, 2018)

Old Mud said:


> Nelson, as you posted this, "As today is Saturday, it is one of my two work days during the weekend.  That big nor'easter just passed through last night, so I am going to be making another built-in shelf outside on the patio, so I don't get yelled at by SWMBO" . are you in New England ? close to Maine ? If so i could lend a hand with helping you set up your sho
> Just to join what others here have said. This really is the best internet site i have had the pleasure of being part of.
> 
> Thank you.



I am taking a break before I tape some joints (I really hate sheetrocking work) on the shop front wall.
Thanks for the kind offer, Old Mud. We're in NY, but our family visited Ogunquit, Maine for vacation every year until the kids were born.
We love Maine. I used to drive trolleys at the Kennebunkport Seashore Trolley Museum.
Now we go to the Jersey shore because it's closer.

There is only one person on LI who is somewhat close, but John isn't here much.
It's over an hour drive in heavy traffic to his place.
So I'm on my own. Probably why I never got anywhere.
And why I insist you guys put in your locations and form mentorships and groups.
People need to team up and help one another to get things set up and going.

Fellas, I am not going to go into the particulars here other than what I have said.
It's just not a good idea.
I started this place myself, paid for it for several years out of the paltry allowance SWMBO gave me for hobbies, and used free software.
It got bigger than I ever thought, and we bought professional software and a dedicated server.
Someone got the idea of having people donate to help me pay for it.
I didn't want to make a dime on this, so I made it a nonprofit.
I organized the corporation. Could have had 3 board members, me, my wife, and my son, (3 is permitted in NY), but I expanded the board so we could give more people a chance to have a voice.
Lo and behold, 3 people end up running it only, because I wanted, after 7 years, to finally play with my toys.
I was going to give them away for free to whoever would haul them out of my basement.
I decided to try once more to get things done down there and to pass the torch to do it.
I checked the site every morning, when I did backups, and I didn't like what I was seeing.
Suffice to say, It didn't work out.

Ken will be back. Terry will not because he quit, and he has expressed a loathing hatred for me. It shocked me to hear it.
Gator will not be back. I received a number of complaints from people who said that he was rude to them and acted like he owned the place.
I can't have a moderator who is rude to people. 
If anyone is rude to you, moderator, member, or me, let me know about it.
We all have bad days, but let's try to help and be kind to each other.

Nelson


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## Dave Smith (Mar 3, 2018)

Nelson--I am very happy you are back in control--I have really enjoyed this site for all levels of skill for machining and shop practices--I am not a skilled machinist but use my machines to get the desired result accomplished--I am still trying like you to get my shops in good order after a move 8 years ago--I am getting there finally and wish I could help you in your shop---maybe some member close to you can give you a hand---thanks again for starting a friendly site---Dave


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## HMF (Mar 3, 2018)

I believe that this thread has run its course, so I will be closing it up now.


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