# Am I in over my head? Machine ID



## HillbillyDeluxe39 (May 22, 2021)

I purchased this machine Friday, it was supposed to be a package deal along with a smaller Clausing 15x50. However when I arrived the other machine had already be sold. I ended up purchasing this 15x60? and a Kalamazoo 13" bandsaw.

On to my issues, I can't seem to positively ID this machine or find any numbers on it that make sense. 

The Bad: This thing is huge and heavy.  The cover over the gears was removed some time ago, seller didn't know why. 
Motor was removed and missing. 
A few handles are broken off.
Threading gears look chewed up and I think I'm missing some. 

This is my first lathe, I'm not scared of it just don't want to spend and arm and a leg on something not worth it. 

Anyway if anyone can help with ID, I can get a manual and source parts. Thanks


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## mickri (May 22, 2021)

This might help you out.  http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/182/6092.pdf


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## mmcmdl (May 23, 2021)

It's a Clausing Colchester , what do you need to know about it ? It's a helluva nice lathe if it's straight .


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## markba633csi (May 23, 2021)

It is a nice lathe, a shame the headstock cover and motor are missing
Parts won't be cheap for it I'm sure.  You can probably retrofit a smaller motor in it, maybe 3 to 5 HP?
-Mark


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## Larry$ (May 23, 2021)

An excellent manual. That would have been an expensive lathe when new. Some nice features that I don't have on my Chinese 1440: Clutches so motor can remain running, trip mechanism on carriage, bolt to lock tailstock accessible from top, reversing under power up to 175rpm, good spindle brake design, rear tool post, pumped oiling..............
When I look at how many parts go into a lathe, it is surprising they don't cost a lot more.
Sounds like that one will take a lot of parts and work. Check for cracked castings, condition of bed (can be reground but expensive.) Change gears may be available or may be adapted from stock gears. Likely all bearings are available from major suppliers.
I have no idea what all is wrong with that machine but it could easily cost, SWAG, $4K+ to restore with bed grinding plus a lot of labor.
Anyone know the cost of a new similar quality lathe?


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (May 23, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> It's a Clausing Colchester , what do you need to know about it ? It's a helluva nice lathe if it's straight .


Right, so is it just a model 15? The manual linked above looks right.


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## Aaron_W (May 23, 2021)

Larry$ said:


> Anyone know the cost of a new similar quality lathe?



Looks like a new Clausing 15x50 is about $30,000.


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (May 23, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> Looks like a new Clausing 15x50 is about $30,000.


I paid $300 for it....


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## Larry$ (May 23, 2021)

The cost of moving it, professionally? $500?  You should come out good even *if* you decide it is too expensive to fix. Part it out? But it could be an interesting restore job. Will need to get a mill and lathe to fix it.


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## Aaron_W (May 23, 2021)

HillbillyDeluxe39 said:


> I paid $300 for it....



Kind of hard to lose at that price, worst case you could probably get at least that much for the chuck and tool post.

Clausing offers fairly good support for older machines. If people can get still get stuff for a 60 year old Atlas lathe from them, I'd think getting parts for a 20-30 year old industrial machine wouldn't be an issue. Won't be cheap, but an option for anything you can't find used or make yourself.


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## Shootymacshootface (May 23, 2021)

I think that lathe is a good score. The ways don't look bad, hopefully thats just a line from dried up oil. It has a travadial, and the compound appears to not hsve a nick in it. I would put any motor on it just to spin it and check its health. The original motor could have been removed because it failed, or the lathe had problems and they used the motor elsewhere. Hopefully not the latter. Keep us updated. 
Good luck!


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## rabler (May 23, 2021)

I've bought several older large machines, not a Clausing, but my thoughts on a large machine like this:

Are you willing to invest some extended time in getting it into good shape?  If you do, you will have machine you will be very proud of, and have really good knowledge of it's operation.  But it may easily take you a year or two to work everything out.   To keep that from getting too daunting, I'd suggest getting a motor in it and trying it out.  Avoid getting into a major overhaul with everything torn apart all at once.  Pick one issue at a time and address it.  Anything that can be done while fixing that one thing that generally improves the machine without sidetracking the project, do it.  But try to go in small bites that frequently lead back to a running machine, even if that is not a fully functional machine.  Otherwise it can get overwhelming and discouraging with too many things in pieces.

Don't know what sort of power you have available.  If you don't already have 3 phase, I'd suggest buying a 3HP 3phase motor, and a VFD that can be run off single phase 220V.  3HP should be plenty for home hobby use, but you can always upgrade the motor down the road if you can power it.

Do you know anyone else that does machining work?  If not, @Larry$ is likely right, you may find yourself pursuing a mill and lathe to fix this lathe.  You can likely get by with something small.  This is how you get addicted


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## pacifica (May 23, 2021)

HillbillyDeluxe39 said:


> I purchased this machine Friday, it was supposed to be a package deal along with a smaller Clausing 15x50. However when I arrived the other machine had already be sold. I ended up purchasing this 15x60? and a Kalamazoo 13" bandsaw.
> 
> On to my issues, I can't seem to positively ID this machine or find any numbers on it that make sense.
> 
> ...


without power you can check runout  of spindle nose, straightness of the bed.


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## NC Rick (May 23, 2021)

The machine looks pretty nice!  I hope it works out.  My lathe is a 15 x60” but likely not quite as heavy.  I have never taxed the 5hp motor.


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## NC Rick (May 23, 2021)

Qc tool post, D1-6 chuck, trava-dial… you will be okay on your investment!


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (May 23, 2021)

There's a lot to process. 

1. Was told the motor was removed for rewinding and the final price was more than quoted, so they didn't move forward. 
2. The machine is filthy but looks fairly undamaged, unlike my mill table with holes all in it.
3. Step 1 is to do a good clean and inspect. 
     Step 2, drain and inspect head oil for "glitter".
     Step 3, install single phase motor just to get it powered up. 
4. I don't have access to 3 phase and don't know that the future will either. I'm not sure what size single phase motor would be sufficient for my work, original had 7.5hp 3 phase, the TECOs 1 to 3 phase go up to 5hp, after that things get expensive. I suppose the machine could be converted to single phase by changing out motor, coolant pump and electronics for single phase.
5. Is this thread a good place for Q&A? Or should I start a new one.


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## matthewsx (May 23, 2021)

That's quite the first lathe, if you fix it up it may be the first, last and only....

Others may have different thoughts but if were me I'd bite the bullet and get a 5hp 3 phase motor as that will likely be enough power for anything in the "hobby" range. If in fact it was taken out of service simply because the motor failed and everything else is decent you'll have a very nice machine for way too cheap. 

You can power the whole thing with a static or rotary phase converter, converting to VFD power is a great option but you can always do it later down the road if you go with a 3 phase motor. Doing this will be the quickest way to get it running as you won't have to try and figure out wiring besides hooking up the motor. Even with a static converter the loss of power probably won't be noticeable for hobby use.

Do check the spindle and bed as noted above but even if those aren't perfect it's probably worth getting power to it unless you really just decide to part it out which will be a big hassle and take up a lot of time and space. Running machines are much easier to sell than projects or parts machines.

Clean and inspect is definitely in order, you can probably just use the same "tractor oil" I get at Tractor Supply.

Yes, keeping your questions in one thread is usually best because you can look back at comments without having to go all over the place. Start new threads as needed but keep the main fix-up thread here would be my advice.

John


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## matthewsx (May 23, 2021)

P.S. That thing's worth an arm, leg and a couple of toes in my book. If you want to see what not to do it's here....


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## matthewsx (May 23, 2021)

If the threading gears are chewed up/missing there's the Clough42 electronic lead screw that would be the bee's knees on a machine like this....


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (May 23, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> That's quite the first lathe, if you fix it up it may be the first, last and only....


I went to look at a 12" Atlas few weeks ago, as I pulled in the driveway it was on a trailer headed out. 
I agree, shouldn't ever need much more lathe than this. Thanks for the advice, I'll post questions/progress as I get to it.


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## brino (May 24, 2021)

That is one nice big lathe.....Congratulations!

Hopefully the motor was the only issue that caused it to be side-lined. That way with some cleanup,  "new" 3-5hp motor and possibly static phase converter, you would have an amazing machine that you'd likely never outgrow......for well under $1000.

It's great that you have a manual too.

I hope it works out great for you!

-brino


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## Janderso (May 24, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> It's a Clausing Colchester , what do you need to know about it ? It's a helluva nice lathe if it's straight .


I agree 100%


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (May 24, 2021)

Thanks brino!
I was concerned about the head not having oil in it, but after looking over the manual I see that the oil drains down into a sump. This makes me feel much better.

What are your thoughts on using a VFD to strictly convert 1 to 3 phase at 60hz? I'm researching static rotary phase converters at the moment.


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## Superburban (May 24, 2021)

HillbillyDeluxe39 said:


> I went to look at a 12" Atlas few weeks ago, as I pulled in the driveway it was on a trailer headed out.
> I agree, shouldn't ever need much more lathe than this. Thanks for the advice, I'll post questions/progress as I get to it.


I don't get sellers like that. About 8 years ago, I talked with a guy for over an hour one evening, about his 10" south bend he was selling. I all but said I would buy it, the big issue was getting a trailer, but did set up a time to be there. The next morning, I called and spoke to his wife, said I had a trailer lined up, and would be there at the time agreed to (1 PM). I rented the trailer, and drove the three hours, when I was about 10 mins away, the seller calls and says the lathe was sold, and just left. We then stopped for lunch, as we were in line, we say it drive by.


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## Superburban (May 24, 2021)

HillbillyDeluxe39 said:


> Thanks brino!
> I was concerned about the head not having oil in it, but after looking over the manual I see that the oil drains down into a sump. This makes me feel much better.
> 
> What are your thoughts on using a VFD to strictly convert 1 to 3 phase at 60hz? I'm researching static rotary phase converters at the moment.


I agree, nice looking machine, I would have bought it.

I have 7, 3 phase motors running off VFD's, they are great. Just remember, you cannot have a switch after the VFD. Use the VFD to do all the switching.


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## rabler (May 24, 2021)

HillbillyDeluxe39 said:


> 4. I don't have access to 3 phase and don't know that the future will either. I'm not sure what size single phase motor would be sufficient for my work, original had 7.5hp 3 phase, the TECOs 1 to 3 phase go up to 5hp, after that things get expensive. I suppose the machine could be converted to single phase by changing out motor, coolant pump and electronics for single phase.


While not difficult, any motor swap is likely going to involve fabricating some sort of adapter plate as your replacement motor will be smaller than the previous motor.  If you can do that just once it'll save you some work.  I and others here have had good luck with TECO VFDs.   Did you get the pulley from the old motor?


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## Aaron_W (May 24, 2021)

HillbillyDeluxe39 said:


> Thanks brino!
> I was concerned about the head not having oil in it, but after looking over the manual I see that the oil drains down into a sump. This makes me feel much better.
> 
> What are your thoughts on using a VFD to strictly convert 1 to 3 phase at 60hz? I'm researching static rotary phase converters at the moment.



There are several threads on rotary converters and VFDs. It seems like once you get beyond 2-3hp, VFD becomes less cost efficient unless you specifically want it for the variable speed aspect. Rotary convertor is also useful on multiple machines so if you get one for the lathe, and then later find a 3 phase mill, you are all set as long as the motor is of similar power.


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## matthewsx (May 24, 2021)

HillbillyDeluxe39 said:


> Thanks brino!
> I was concerned about the head not having oil in it, but after looking over the manual I see that the oil drains down into a sump. This makes me feel much better.
> 
> What are your thoughts on using a VFD to strictly convert 1 to 3 phase at 60hz? I'm researching static rotary phase converters at the moment.


The problem with the VFD is you need to modify the circuitry in the lathe itself since VFD’s need to be directly connected to their loads (motor) without any switches in between.

It’s an awesome setup @mksj can help with it but a static converter is cheap and you can just hook it up to the main power input for the whole machine and start using it.

John


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## Janderso (May 24, 2021)

HillbillyDeluxe39 said:


> I purchased this machine Friday, it was supposed to be a package deal along with a smaller Clausing 15x50. However when I arrived the other machine had already be sold. I ended up purchasing this 15x60? and a Kalamazoo 13" bandsaw.
> 
> On to my issues, I can't seem to positively ID this machine or find any numbers on it that make sense.
> 
> ...


Is the chip pan around anywhere? They slide in and out like a drawer.


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## Janderso (May 24, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> Won't be cheap, but an option for anything you can't find used or make yourself.


No, they had the pinion gear for my Colchester. I think it was $750. I then realized mine was fine.
I never bought it. 
They did have lots of parts for my early 70's 15X50 Colchester.


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (May 24, 2021)

rabler said:


> While not difficult, any motor swap is likely going to involve fabricating some sort of adapter plate as your replacement motor will be smaller than the previous motor.  If you can do that just once it'll save you some work.  I and others here have had good luck with TECO VFDs.   Did you get the pulley from the old motor?


Yes the original pully was with it.


matthewsx said:


> The problem with the VFD is you need to modify the circuitry in the lathe itself since VFD’s need to be directly connected to their loads (motor) without any switches in between.
> 
> It’s an awesome setup @mksj can help with it but a static converter is cheap and you can just hook it up to the main power input for the whole machine and start using it.
> 
> John


I did some reading on North American Phase Converters website.  It states that "A North America static phase converter will only run motor loads. Because it does not produce a constant 3rd leg of power, a static converter will not run a resistive or inductive load." Looking at the lathes electrical drawing it shows 3 phase incoming power going to the main motor and the coolant sump pump. A transformer then reduces voltage to 110V to power the relays and other circuitry.  If I were to use a static converter, the transformer would need to be removed from the circuit and 110V power supplied to the remaining circuit, and I would be using the static phase converter strictly for the two motors.  I do have a local "scrap yard" that buys surplus industrial electrical equipment.  He has 3 phase motors fairly cheap, North American sells just the control panel for their rotary phase converters and the end user supplies the idler motor. This would be an affordable option. 

Question: What would be the turning limits of say a 3, 5, and 7.5HP motor? Is it dictated by stock diameter, depth of cut or mass?
At this point the largest project I have planned is a 12"x2" round bending die for building roll cages.


Janderso said:


> Is the chip pan around anywhere? They slide in and out like a drawer.


Yes it came with a slide in chip pan, and a rear mounted chip catcher, which unfortunately was bent by the forklift operator who loaded it on my trailer


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## rabler (May 24, 2021)

You can run the transformer without problem IF you are careful to hook it up to the two legs that come directly from the utility.  So your three phase is actually made up of 3 wires, two from the utility (call those wires 1 & 2) and one from the phase converter (wire 3) often called the "manufactured leg".  As long as you make sure your transformer is on wires 1 & 2 you can run the transformer without concerns, as it always sees the utility voltage  This takes a little careful wiring but is how most of these setups are handled.

Machinery's handbook will give you detailed formulas, but 5 HP is a LOT of power for a lathe.   Power is determined by

Type of cutting tool, which amongst other things dictates cutting speed (SFPM).  Higher SFPM means higher horsepower, all else being equal.
Related to type of cutting tool is how sharp that tool is.  Dull tools require more HP
Type of material - stainless teel, or super hard alloys are tougher, more HP
Depth of cut and feed rate - deeper cut and higher feed both require more HP
You'd think diameter would factor in.  But cutting speed is a linear equivalaent.  So at larger diameters, you spin the object at less RPM to get the same cutting speed.  With the gearing, you get more torque at lower RPM (effectively like downshifting in a car).  So the diameter is a wash.

Generally though, when comparing these level of horsepower 3 vs 5 vs 7.5, you're talking mostly about how quickly you can rough a piece down to size.  Hobbiest generally prefer not to get too aggressive about roughing, if for no other reason than that the large, very hot chips are painful if not outright dangerous.   I run a 4000 lb Monarch 12"CK (14 x 30 swing) on a 3HP motor.  At the time I couldn't find a TECO that went to 5 HP on single phase in.  And 5HP on single phase requires more than a 20A 220V circuit, which will run 3HP if you're talking about VFDs.   (Rotary Phase Converters are slightly more power hungry, depending on sizing.)  But I haven't regretted the lack of HP.   Since the Monarch only turns at up to 1000RPM, and yours will spin faster, a 5HP might be worthwhile.  Unrelated, but if you're running a lathe that is *not* geared and trying to drive it with a VFD, you would need more HP, but with a geared lathe, you can shift speeds and get plenty of torque. 

My first lathe, a 10 x 22, was 1HP VFD drive and was plenty of HP for starting out/learning.

A 10HP idler rotary phase converter will do a good job of driving a 5HP lathe motor, and give you plenty of options for future 3phase machines.


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## brino (May 24, 2021)

HillbillyDeluxe39 said:


> What are your thoughts on using a VFD to strictly convert 1 to 3 phase at 60hz? I'm researching static rotary phase converters at the moment.



To me, a VFD seems overkill for a fixed-frequency drive....or where there are other parallel motors (feed, coolant pumps) that need a constant frequency.

Here's a thread where I initially suggested a VFD, but was schooled (politely and rightly) about static phase converters.
It a good read with a link to a great video.

-brino


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## rabler (May 24, 2021)

brino said:


> To me, a VFD seems overkill for a fixed-frequency drive....or where there are other parallel motors (feed, coolant pumps) that need a constant frequency.
> 
> Here's a thread where I initially suggested a VFD, but was schooled (politely and rightly) about static phase converters.
> It a good read with a link to a great video.
> ...


Missing link?!


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (May 24, 2021)

After some reading I realize that a VFD is not best for this purpose. Plus the band saw I purchased along with the lathe is also 3 phase. 
This has me leaning towards a rotary phase so that I can power both (and any future purchases) without rewiring and replacing motors.


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## brino (May 24, 2021)

Oops, here it is:
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/single-to-three-phase.89962/

Sorry!

-brino


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## matthewsx (May 24, 2021)

The inductive loads that North American is talking about are things like ovens. You will have no problem running a lathe off their static converters (at least I don't)....

If you have two or more 3 phase machines it's up to you to figure out what's better. I have my lathe wired so there's an on/off push button that turns on the static converter, folks on here with static converters sometimes need to wire some sort of pilot light so they don't accidentally leave it going because they do consume power even when nothing's drawing a load.

Either way it will be much easier than wiring in a VFD, although I do have one on my Seneca Falls. But that only has to run the motor, there's no other electrical on it.

John


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## Superburban (May 24, 2021)

If one has multiple 3 phase machines, is it possible to wire them together, so idling one or more, could make it act as a rotary phase convertor for another?


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (May 25, 2021)

brino said:


> Oops, here it is:
> https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/single-to-three-phase.89962/
> 
> Sorry!
> ...


I wish he would have measured the voltages with the load motor running, I may do some experimenting once I determin what capacitor size is needed. 


matthewsx said:


> The inductive loads that North American is talking about are things like ovens. You will have no problem running a lathe off their static converters (at least I don't)....


A transformer is an inductive load, however I studied the electrical drawings some more and it looks like it takes power from Line R & T. If I wire it so that R&T are fed from L1 & 2 that comes directly from the wall it should work. 

The control cabinet is a little busy...


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (May 25, 2021)

Whoa, not sure why those photos are so big?


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## brino (May 25, 2021)

HillbillyDeluxe39 said:


> Whoa, not sure why those photos are so big?



That's okay, it easier on my old eyes! 

-brino


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (May 25, 2021)

So through a very extensive google search I think I've determined its a Model 8041.  Which my luck gives 0 results for parts on ebay or otherwise and very little help from Clausing Industrial...  Ill be on the look out for head cover, change gears etc.


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## brino (May 25, 2021)

HillbillyDeluxe39 said:


> So through a very extensive google search I think I've determined its a Model 8041. Which my luck gives 0 results for parts on ebay or otherwise and very little help from Clausing Industrial... Ill be on the look out for head cover, change gears etc.



Here's a manual specific for the 8000 series:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=16416

-brino


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (May 25, 2021)

I looked at that manual but disregarded it because the machine pictured in it is similar but doesn't look exactly like mine. Are all the 8000 series internals the same?

I'm perturbed that a Google search brings up only 1 result and that is for an auction.


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## brino (May 25, 2021)

You are right....that last one is for a 17" lathe and not quite the same......darn!

-brino


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (May 25, 2021)

I'm going to call clausing tomorrow, the guy there emailing me has just been sending random manuals


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## Superburban (May 25, 2021)

Clausing has been great for me in the past. If they did not have a part in stock, they would offer to send me a drawing so I could make the part.


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## Larry$ (May 26, 2021)

HillbillyDeluxe39 said:


> Ill be on the look out for head cover, change gears etc


Time to start making parts. I can't remember if you have a mill or not. If so many parts can be made on a mill. A head cover made from aluminum or even fabricated from fiberglass. If you end up not finding change gears, you can make them on a mill. (I've done it using a HV rotary table, tail stock, Chinese gear cutters and a broach. Not all that hard.) My lathe has 3phase 3HP and I don't think I've ever used all of it. A long time ago I ran tools on a home made rotary phase converter. Worked fine for several years. A used 3 phase motor about 50% larger than what you need to drive, big capacitor(s) a couple of switches, an enclosure.


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (May 26, 2021)

Larry$ said:


> Time to start making parts. I can't remember if you have a mill or not. If so many parts can be made on a mill. A head cover made from aluminum or even fabricated from fiberglass. If you end up not finding change gears, you can make them on a mill. (I've done it using a HV rotary table, tail stock, Chinese gear cutters and a broach. Not all that hard.)


I've got a Clausing 8520 that I just got running, still needs the gibs adjusted and a learning curve program... I plan to upgrade my membership here so I can use the For Sale section and pick up some much need tooling and instruments.  I feel comfortable making the gears, I've been watching This Old Tony for years now and feel like a DIY expert  

The comment about doing a Cough42 style threading screw is a possibility, concurrently working on a CNC plasma, so if I can get that working a digital threading screw shouldn't be too complicated.

Heck, maybe Ill start a youtube channel while I'm at it...


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## wa5cab (May 26, 2021)

The statement about what 3-phase static inverters will not do is at best misleading.  Probably 99-44/100's of all static 3-phase inverters are used to run 3-phase motor off of single phase lines.  On the schematic above, R and T come (probably through a single phase and a 3-phase breaker) directly from the single phase 240 VAC line if using a static inverter.  Whether there is anything on S or not, all of the control circuits will still work.


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (May 26, 2021)

I agree, I have to be sure that R & T are connected to the single phase L1 & L2, S will come from the phase generated by the static converter.


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (Jul 9, 2021)

So a little update. In my quest to find a replacement motor for the clausing I found an Encno 13x40 Model 110-1351.  Naturally the price was right and it now sits next to the clausing. 

I know its an "import" from China but it's single phase and has all of its parts as well as a DRO.

What would the consensus of the hobby machinist be between these two lathes? I would like constructive feedback.

What is the potential resale value of the clausing?  The proceeds would go towards tooling and measuring equipment which I little of.

As I stand now the encno seems like a better fit for me. I am by no means a machinist just a tinkerer, but having a lathe opens things up for me.
Thanks


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## MikeInOr (Jul 9, 2021)

Since you paid $300 for it I would advertise it for $600 due to the missing motor and other pieces.  You could probably part it out on ebay for over four times that amount ($2400 or more) *IF *you want to invest in the time and hassle it takes to part it out.

You could price it higher than $600 but I would guess $600 would be a pretty quick sell while higher would take considerably longer to find an interested buyer.


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## Aaron_W (Jul 9, 2021)

This is coming from a guy that just wanted a little lathe to make model parts who along the way has become a guy who seems to have acquired a hobby of providing a home to and rehabilitating neat old machines.

That Clausing and Enco are not remotely on the same playing field, but there is much to be said for a machine that doesn't need a lot of work. 13x40 is a popular size lathe and there are a ton of similar lathes under different brand names being used by members on this site.

I think your biggest problem with the Clausing will be finding a buyer who can move it. I might suggest a higher price to keep beginners and bargain hunters away, but then being very open to negotiation from any buyer who has the means to take it away. I would make a point of listing the estimated size and weight in your ad. The right buyer also might have a far better trade in tooling than the cash value.


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## HillbillyDeluxe39 (Jul 9, 2021)

Good points.  Based on similar machines for sale I feel like the clausing is worth more than $600 even considering the repairs it needs. 

I have the equipment to move and load it, after that its really up to the buyer to know if they can safely move it. 

I will get the Enco up and running, then I will know more. In fact I'll know more than I do about the Clausing, I have a small motor that will at least spin the gears on the Clausing which should give an idea of its condition.


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