# Help With Lathe Choice.i Need A Itemised List Of Everything



## paulkane1 (Dec 6, 2016)

Hello I'm a complete Novice and trying to self educate myself ,on how to use a Metal Lathe.Its probably better me telling members ,what I would like to achieve,there is 2 objectives,1, I would like to make my own Fly Fishing Reels,could someone on this Forum,tell what Tools and Hobby Lathe ,would suit the purpose?If anyone on this Forum,has made Fly Fishing Reels,I would appreciate any Links ,DVDs ,Books.that would be of assistance to me.My second objective is to make a Jig,to make Bamboo Fly Rods,it entails 2 lengths of Cold Steel,72 inch long ,11/2 x 3 inches,every 5 inches ,I need to drill holes ,to take Pull and Push Hex screws,the all important piece of work,is to run a 60% V groove along the top and bottom of the 2 Steel Bars,once the V groove has been cut,you place a Precision measurement Tool ,with a 60% Tip,along the V groove ,and mark out a series of highly minute increment measurements,This Jig is used to Plane down your Bamboo Split Cane to a precise size,Hence the Push and Pull Screws are use to give you the necessary depth,all along the Jig,Cane splits have to be tapered.


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## Cobra (Dec 6, 2016)

As I said Paul, not the normal responce. Hang in there and you'll get the help you need.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Dec 6, 2016)

No offence intended, many people come to the Web in order to learn processes that others have spent countless hours and money figuring out how to do on specialty products such as yours.

Your thread title asks for an itemized list of "everything" needed, this is a broad subject at best.

Very few manufacturers will be willing to give away such knowledge.


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## Cobra (Dec 6, 2016)

Don't think he was asking manufacturing enterprises to bare their secrets.  I understood that he was asking for our help in his development of jigs. If you don't feel comfortable helping, then don't.


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## Chipper5783 (Dec 6, 2016)

Paul, You pretty much have to get on with purchasing a lathe.  Making a functional, nice looking flyfishing reel is a significant project that will do a lot to develop your shop skills.  For the most part, you cannot get those skills from a book or a web site.

What kind of metal lathe?  It does not really matter.  Obviously it has to fit in your work space, you'll need to sort out power, transportation, support tooling - all the usual getting started consideration.  It is those considerations that will strongly influence what you purchase.

Let us know how you make out.
Regards, David


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## Wreck™Wreck (Dec 6, 2016)

Cobra said:


> Don't think he was asking manufacturing enterprises to bare their secrets.  I understood that he was asking for our help in his development of jigs. If you don't feel comfortable helping, then don't.


I realize this, I have had many people bring me samples of products including popular fishing reels and ask "can you copy this"? My answer would be yes but it would be unethical, I'm oldschool that way.

The next question is always "what equipment do I need to make them myself"?

One is then forced to ask the question how many and how quickly and at what price? This often leads to consternation.

This is generally where the story ends.

I have signed Non Disclosure Agreements with people that have Patents Pending when building working models for them, the last ran out 5 years ago, I can now show you how to build a reversing valve controlled by a lead screw and stepper motor, this is Patented by the way.


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## Chipper5783 (Dec 6, 2016)

Fishing reels you say?  No doubt you have Googled the idea and found that it is quite a popular activity for a person to make their own fishing reels (or run a small business of making them).  Guy Lautard in the Machinist's Bedside Reader #2 comments on making reels (P138).  Guy provides a reference to Mechanix Illustrated January 1951 as one source for working drawings of a "nice looking" fly reel.

You asked about equipment for making such and that is difficult to provide much of an answer without plans (reels seem to come in a variety of sizes) - how big a machine depends on how big the project.

I can tell you that a 10" to 12" diameter swing lathe (which may be considered 5" to 6" in UK lingo) is a very handy contraption and it does not take long to wonder how you ever managed to do anything without easy access to machining equipment.

My advise is to purchase a new (or near new) machine that is 1" larger in swing diameter than the biggest you think you will ever need (that little extra in size provides a significant boost in versatility).  Once you know what you are doing, what your interests are and what features you should be looking for - then go for kit which may seem to be only good as a boat anchor (iron attracts more iron - it is a disease).  That first machine is your education (an education costs money).  This was advise given to me before I bought my first lathe - I still have that lathe, it works great for me.  I now have 5 more primary machine (and a bunch of little ones), and all put together they cost about the same as that first lathe.  Lots of people tell me I paid way to much for that first machine, but I don't agree with them.  Sure, I could have saved a few thousand dollars and spent a couple years dithering around, then fussing with an old wreck that I did not understand - and finally sorted things out.  Instead I jumped right into an activity that I still really enjoy (30+ years) and even back then I was making useful little tools pretty quick (many of which I still use).

Please keep us posted on how you make out, David


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## stupoty (Dec 7, 2016)

Theirs a lot of good books on jigs and fixtures on archive.org

i quite like https://archive.org/details/toolengineeringj00dowdrich

nothing specific to fishing kit but lots of general info on work holding etc.

Stuart


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## Tersti (Dec 7, 2016)

I'm on a bashed up ML7 and I think it's great. They're fairly available in the UK and even with my machine I'm sure it would pull off your project no problem. However, as other posters have said using a bit of a wreck will certainly mean a lot of messing around and there are some really wrecked ML7s out there, a worn machine will cost you something like £500-£1000 while a later machine in really good condition will cost much more. If you can get a hold of a copy of "The Amateur's Lathe", LH Sparey, it has a whole section on choosing a lathe. I chose the ML7 in part because it's light for it's size and also because parts are readily(ish) available in this country. There are serious downsides, the worn ways means extreme precision work is difficult, the worn spindle bearings contribute to chatter, and I spend my life twiddling with the oil resevoirs to get them just right. If that's not for you then learn from my mistakes.

Get a hold of the book if you can, it's much more comprehensive than this forum can be. If any old piece of garbage machine will do for your needs (tip: it probably wont) then just make sure all the moving parts like the carriage and spindle are rock solid to the touch and there's all the kit you're expecting with the machine actually with it, changewheels seem to be famous for getting lost for example and you can probably sink another £500 in just changewheels for an ML7 for example.

You'll attract some more detailed and positive feedback if you include some detailed sketches of what you'd like to make. I'd also be curious to see what's involved in your planned projects.


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## brino (Dec 7, 2016)

Hello Paulkane1,

Welcome to the site!

One thread that should be useful is this one:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...-right-lathe-for-beginners.25915/#post-229181

For reels you do NOT need a huge machine.
Check out some videos by "Clickspring" on youtube. You can see what he manages on a small lathe with the link in this thread:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/making-square-broach.52546/#post-438717
By keeping the DOC(depth of cut) small you remove some machine rigidity constraints.
With a larger machine you can do more; faster.

However, that jig you mention for making bamboo rods is a different story. If you wanted to make that entire jig your self you would likely need a large milling machine.....if I understand you properly. That's a very long v-groove. It would likely need to be done in multiple passes on any "home shop" size machine.

Could those rails be aluminum? Then maybe you can cut the grooves with a carbide router bit, ideally in a router table.
To get the screws aligned, clamp the two pieces together drill and tap the first hole, put a bolt thru both and drill the second hole, etc.
Use a drill press to get the holes perpendicular to the rail surface.

The more details you can supply the better our discussion can be.

-brino


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## mksj (Dec 8, 2016)

There are a number of YouTube videos on making the reels, depending on the size of the reel, a 11-13" swing lathe would give you the desired working envelop for the reels. You need a mill big enough to for something like a 5" rotary table, both horizontally and vertically mounted (something like a Grizzly T25937 - 5" Rotary Table). I use a Grizzly H7506 which has a 6" chuck and has indexable plates,  but requires a much larger machines and is about 140lB.   You probably want a rotary table with indexing plates which which will speed up some of the relief and drill patterns used on the reels. In the videos below he uses a Grizzly G0704 and the lathe is a Grizzly G9972Z (11x26), and you can get an idea of the necessary tooling. I do not see you needing a bigger mill, unless you plan on doing other projects requiring a bigger table/power).  Some of the smaller mills come as packages, some with a DRO which is handy to have. I would lean toward a 12" swing lathe (used or new), possibly with more threading options in the gearbox, and a little more rigidity when removing a lot of material for the reels. On the Jig for the fly rod, I do not see that it would be a problem in machining it on a small mill in increments. You can fasten some guide blocks to the table and mill the V grove in the steel and screw holes in increments, sliding the bar stock along and then reclamping. You will need to machine the V grove in a series of passes to the desired depth.


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## LucknowKen (Dec 10, 2016)

Hi Paulkane1:
https://northbranchreels.com/


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## paulkane1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Cobra said:


> Sorry about the previous post Paul.  Not the normal responce from this site.
> Could you post some sketches of the jig or some photos of another. It would be helpful to visualize what you are trying to build.


 I hope this helps ,it's the jig for making the Fly Rods,The Cold Rolled Steel bars,are 1 inch square,if you look closely at the end of the piece he's Planing ,you'll see the 60 degree triangle,he's trying to achieve,,I need to run a 30 degree angle along both bars ,makes a 60 degree angle.


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## cookj320 (Dec 13, 2016)

Lathe....G0602
mill...G0759
That's what I have LOL-
You'll need about a year of teaching yourself.....and shazaam you be right where you need to be....[hopefully] 
This has been my experience in self tought hobby machining. 
Watch lot's of YouTube..........and south-bend makes a great book "how to run a lathe".
Titanium15160 on YouTube is awesome with small machines and he is over the pond. 
The two machines I've listed have an incredible following and people do remarkable projects with them. 
This hobby is just like owning a B.O.A.T.=[break out another thousand] LOL


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## brino (Dec 13, 2016)

paulkane1 said:


> I hope this helps ,it's the jig for making the Fly Rods



Thanks for the extra info.
Interesting, but I am not sure I understand......a few more questions.....

Is this jig basically a vise with 6 foot long jaws? 
Is that just a regular woodworkers block plane? (I guess not the blade angle look almost perpendicular.....)
Does the blade actually run across the steel jaws?

It looks like the steel jaws simple grab the "points" of the triangular piece being held. I suspect that I just cannot see the groove you mentioned.

-brino


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## paulkane1 (Dec 13, 2016)

cookj320 said:


> Lathe....G0602
> mill...G0759
> That's what I have LOL-
> You'll need about a year of teaching yourself.....and shazaam you be right where you need to be....[hopefully]
> ...


Thanks for your advice,i have allowed myself a good year at least ,to educate myself,Can you buy Grizzly Machine here in Ireland or the Uk?


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## paulkane1 (Dec 13, 2016)

brino said:


> Thanks for the extra info.
> Interesting, but I am not sure I understand......a few more questions.....
> 
> Is this jig basically a vise with 6 foot long jaws?
> ...


In principle it's a 6 foot vise, Yes small plane runs over on top of the steel,Every 5 inches ,you increase depth of Jig by a few thousand mm,which gives a tapered effect,(this is what I'm picking up,from various forums,as, yet ,I have not done one yet) It takes 6 pieces of Bamboo to make 1 part of the Fly Rod( 6x 60 degrees ,= 360 degrees)


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## paulkane1 (Dec 13, 2016)

mksj said:


> There are a number of YouTube videos on making the reels, depending on the size of the reel, a 11-13" swing lathe would give you the desired working envelop for the reels. You need a mill big enough to for something like a 5" rotary table, both horizontally and vertically mounted (something like a Grizzly T25937 - 5" Rotary Table). I use a Grizzly H7506 which has a 6" chuck and has indexable plates,  but requires a much larger machines and is about 140lB.   You probably want a rotary table with indexing plates which which will speed up some of the relief and drill patterns used on the reels. In the videos below he uses a Grizzly G0704 and the lathe is a Grizzly G9972Z (11x26), and you can get an idea of the necessary tooling. I do not see you needing a bigger mill, unless you plan on doing other projects requiring a bigger table/power).  Some of the smaller mills come as packages, some with a DRO which is handy to have. I would lean toward a 12" swing lathe (used or new), possibly with more threading options in the gearbox, and a little more rigidity when removing a lot of material for the reels. On the Jig for the fly rod, I do not see that it would be a problem in machining it on a small mill in increments. You can fasten some guide blocks to the table and mill the V grove in the steel and screw holes in increments, sliding the bar stock along and then reclamping. You will need to machine the V grove in a series of passes to the desired depth.


Thanks Kindly for your help,I was wondering,could I make a Jig for a 6 inch grinder,angle it to 30 degrees,somehow true some guiding rails i.e. Parallel to grinder wheel,and,run steel bar past the grinding wheel in small increments,and maybe,smooth of with a 60 degree stone?I don't know if that is practical,any advise would be appreciated


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## francist (Dec 13, 2016)

Do not try setting up the guide rails. That is an invitation for disaster, especially on a grinder. The theory looks promising, I know, but in practise there is an extremely small margin between removing metal and jamming the work against the wheel. Don't do it.

-frank


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## Christian Poulsen (Dec 13, 2016)

Interesting...I was going to say: (But it it looks like most have been covered by input above:
1) You need (or sketch) a detailed set of prints with dim's and tolarences to work from...
2) Besides a lathe for the reel work you will need a mill plus you can use the mill for the rod fixture (by sliding the fixture to/for needed points/lengths/(maybe stops) (A 8" to 12" lathe and a small table top mill should be fine for this and other future work (Pass up the tiny machines)...
3) You will need, besides what yoose' get with both the lathe and mill; Bunches of tooling, instruments and some "support machines" that a "detailed" list that if I myself would attempt to post will be too long (and undoubtably I will forget many items (lol)...

4) You will need (or to learn while on this endeavor) the expertise needed in this (our passion of) Machining
Note and FYI, while maybe not needed to this degree (depending on ones goals and what be it (the product); A 4 and 5 yr Machinist or Toolmaker (Apprenticeships/training) program commonly require 2000 hrs each (1 yr of each) hands on of these "1st to learn" (start learning)" Machine Tools (Both The Lathe and The Mill transcend and "lend their selves" to all other machining/operations in a metal shop)

PS: I fish the Colorado Rockies every yr with a 50+ yr old  Orvis Battenkill bamboo rod and Pflueger Medalist reel (Probably worth more now than a lathe and mill together! LOL)


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## cookj320 (Dec 13, 2016)

paulkane1 said:


> Thanks for your advice,i have allowed myself a good year at least ,to educate myself,Can you buy Grizzly Machine here in Ireland or the Uk?


I'm hoping someone else can answer availability question in the uk.......


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## Cobra (Dec 19, 2016)

cookj320 said:


> I'm hoping someone else can answer availability question in the uk.......





cookj320 said:


> I'm hoping someone else can answer availability question in the uk.......



Checking the Grizzly site, they do ship world wide.  You would need to arrange a freight company to ship from the US to Ireland or the UK.
Most of the freight companies will also handle your incoming taxes and duties.


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