# Dro Z Axis - Quill Or Head?



## coolidge

After browsing some threads I see guys are installing the Z axis DRO on the head/column instead of the quill. Which for these hand crank dovetail column bench mills doesn't make much sense to me. Then I saw some later installed a digital caliper type gauge on the quill which is where I'm thinking I should install my DRO Z axis in the first place.

To me the hand crank (or power Z up/down for those who have them) is to roughly position the head for a job then you lock the gibs so the head doesn't move and use the quill micro feed or quill feed arms to do your machining hence doesn't it make more sense to install the DRO Z axis on the quill to begin with?

But I'd like to hear from you guys who installed the DRO Z axis on the head/column, have you found that useful and for what?


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## coolidge

Progress, I flipped the gear levers upside down clearing a 2.5 x 9 inch area down the center of the head for the DRO scale. Bill and DZ where are you two trouble makers?


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## darkzero

I have both. The DRO for the head is not really that useful to me, I could live without it. The DRO on the quill is essential for me. I considered mounting a glass scale for the quill to be used on my DRO display (& trying modding my DRO for a 4th axis) but after using my Mitutoyo scale on the quill for a bit I prefer to just use the Mitu scale. Although I could take advantage of more features from the ES-12 display I find it much more easier to read the Mitu scale on the front of the head during manual drilling & milling to depth rather than having to look over to the side at my DRO. So I decided to keep both & have the best of both worlds.


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## bjornsh67

I am planning to use a product from www.machine-dro.co.uk for summing the DRO signals from the z axis and the quill.

Bjørn

http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/m-dro-linear-encoder-summing-interface.html


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## wrmiller

I don't like using the quill for Z. Further it extends from the head, you get more slop/less rigidity. Especially in these smaller bench mills that don't have a very stout quill to start with.

Besides, the column/head scale mount works great for me. Ignorance is bliss... 

Bjorn: I wanted a four-axis (head and quill summed) for the mill but just couldn't swing the expense. 

NOTE: a digital scale on my quill is in the works for the rare occasions where I have to plunge into a pocket or precisely control the depth of drilling.


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## astjp2

I would use some form of axis summing, if you use the quill to set the tool height and then move the column or head to cut without extending the quill.  Tim


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## coolidge

After a day of thinking this over...I am increasingly annoyed there's no Haas Mini Mill 2 in my garage ETA on that order 9/30/2015. DZ that's what I thought you would say, also I pilfered photos and ideas from your mill thread earlier . You know with a Haas inbound in a few months if I'm honest all I really need on this mill is one of those Mitutoyo scales on the quill. I wish I would have thought of that before ordering the DRO maybe I'll just toss the DRO kit on the ebay. Yes I'm quite liking that idea actually. After the wallet bruising I took on the mill electrical recently I am already thinking I should halt spending on this manual mill and throw the money at Haas options. The electrical had to be done, a DRO is optional really.


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## Navy Chief

I am pondering the same question for use on my G0755. I e-mailed dro pros with the question about using a 4 axis and combining the inputs from the quill and the column. Their recommendation was to skip the 4 axis and either go with a 3 axis on the column, or a 3 axis on the quill. I think I have come to the conclusion that I would find the input on the quill much more useful, I can not see how I could use the column for precision positioning and the only case where it may be useful would be if I have to move the head to change something and need to return to the same zero point for depth control on something. Cost wise I think I am going to go with a 2 axis system with an inexpensive indicator on the quill, this will give be 98%-99% of the functionality without the added expense.


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## wrmiller

Interesting comment about how you can't see how you could use the column for precision positioning. I can, and have controlled DOC to tenths using the head/column interface. Just an observation, not a critique. Use what's comfortable for you.


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## Navy Chief

wrmiller19 said:


> Interesting comment about how you can't see how you could use the column for precision positioning. I can, and have controlled DOC to tenths using the head/column interface. Just an observation, not a critique. Use what's comfortable for you.


 
My comment was based on initially playing around with the controls on the mill since taking delivery, I am still working on getting power to my mill to be able to actually work on anything. Maybe my impression on this will change with time, but right now the head position on the column seems to be a very coarse adjustment. I still like the idea of the 4 axis DRO combining the two inputs on the Z axis (I am a sucker for gadgets) and I may still try to figure this option out.


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## wrmiller

The Z-axis handle on my 12Z doesn't even have a dial for reading anything, so I'm sure the creators intended it for coarse positional use anyway. But with the addition of the DRO, I manage. I do like the idea of summing the two like Bjorn commented about above.


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## darkzero

Navy Chief said:


> the head position on the column seems to be a very coarse adjustment



Despite the size of the 12Z & PM940, the RF45 style machines are still considered benchtop mill drills as are all the other similar smaller Asian import mills. Mill drills weren't designed to use the head as a fine feed like you could use the knee on a knee mill. Of course that doesn't mean you can't use it that way. As we all know, RF30/31s can't be used this way at all in the stock form.

DROs aren't a necessity. So if you think about how you would use a mill drill without a DRO. There is no dial for the head adjustment like there is a dial for the knee on a knee mill. Mill drills have a fine feed handwheel that does have a dial on it (although the one on mine is good for nothing). I have used my head for milling to depth but not often, I find it more awkward & an inconvenience. It's quicker for me to just use the quill but I always rough adjust the head & keep my quill extension as short as possible.

When I wanted to add a scale (4th axis for my DRO display) I also wanted to get an axes summing box. I was looking at the one from Accurite but it wasn't cheap. I was glad to see M-DRO come out with one later for much cheaper but at that time I was over it. I actually purchased my lathe DRO display from M-DRO/Allendale.


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## coolidge

wrmiller19 said:


> Interesting comment about how you can't see how you could use the column for precision positioning. I can, and have controlled DOC to tenths using the head/column interface. Just an observation, not a critique. Use what's comfortable for you.



You can drill a hole to within 10ths using the big crank handle on the column? I'm thinking not my friend.


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## wrmiller

Side cutting only. Easy. No plunge cuts using the big crank handle. Which is why I am putting a little digital dro on the quill exactly for that and plunge/pocket milling.


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## darkzero

BTW, the Mitu quill scale & my quill depth stop are the best things I have added to my mill. A depth stop comes in very handy when you are making multiples of a part. I can't live without them.


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## coolidge

Very nice depth stop, mine came with a depth stop but its a joke compared to yours. I do see your quill lock is missing or is that it on the right side?

Update: I have decided to return the DRO, I'm shipping it back tomorrow. Next Enco 20% off sale I'll pick up the Mitutoyo scale DZ is using on his quill.


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## darkzero

coolidge said:


> Very nice depth stop, mine came with a depth stop but its a joke compared to yours. I do see your quill lock is missing or is that it on the right side?
> 
> Update: I have decided to return the DRO, I'm shipping it back tomorrow. Next Enco 20% off sale I'll pick up the Mitutoyo scale DZ is using on his quill.



Thanks. Yes, my quill lock is on the right side. I have a power downfeed model so there was no depth stop feature. I used to use the power down feed limit as a depth stop but it wasn't designed to be used that way & it would only repeat 10 thou if I was lucky. My custom depth stop repeats to a thou no problem.

I searched long & hard for a depth stop mod on a RF45 style mill & came up with nothing. I've always wondered about that scale thing in the middle of the faceplate on the non-PDF models. I couldn't find anyone talking about it. Can it be used as depth stop? If yes, how does it work?

BTW, you sure about the DRO return? I personally think a DRO is much more useful on a mill than on a lathe. Despite your CNC mission, if I could only have a DRO on one machine it would be on the mill without question.


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## Smithdoor

This what I use simple and low cost and works GREAT




darkzero said:


> Thanks. Yes, my quill lock is on the right side. I have a power downfeed model so there was no depth stop feature. I used to use the power down feed limit as a depth stop but it wasn't designed to be used that way & it would only repeat 10 thou if I was lucky. My custom depth stop repeats to a thou no problem.
> 
> I searched long & hard for a depth stop mod on a RF45 style mill & came up with nothing. I've always wondered about that scale thing in the middle of the faceplate on the non-PDF models. I couldn't find anyone talking about it. Can it be used as depth stop? If yes, how does it work?
> 
> BTW, you sure about the DRO return? I personally think a DRO is much more useful on a mill than on a lathe. Despite your CNC mission, if I could only have a DRO on one machine it would be on the mill without question.


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## coolidge

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## RVJimD

I will toss in my Noob observation based on about a month of using my G0759 that has the DRO on the head and a simple LCD DRO on the quill.  

I move the head almost exclusively so I can use the larger brighter and easier for my old eyes to see.  The LCD on the quill is not very easy to read  because it is smaller and LCD and not back lit.

Jim


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## coolidge

RVJimD said:


> I will toss in my Noob observation based on about a month of using my G0759 that has the DRO on the head and a simple LCD DRO on the quill.
> 
> I move the head almost exclusively so I can use the larger brighter and easier for my old eyes to see.  The LCD on the quill is not very easy to read  because it is smaller and LCD and not back lit.
> 
> Jim



Good point and I had thought about that because my eyes are not what they used to be.


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## coolidge

Okay DZ talked me into re-thinking my decision to return the DRO...I stared at the mill for a couple hours and I think the X and Y will be fairly straight forward now. X will mount on the rear of the table, I will give up some Y axis work cube but I won't be often milling with the table that far back up against the column anyway. That leaves the front uncluttered and free for the power feed and stops. I'm going to use those two huge lifting bolt holes on the base for Y, mount some aluminum bar there for the scale.

The Z scale will be on the quill and I'm going to try to include an improved depth stop while I'm at it. I have no room on either the left or right side of the head so it will have to be down the center of the head. Its going to require some engineering and money, either the scale or read head will probably have to ride on some sort of linear rail. Thanks to DZ for the pics he posted in his thread there's some good ideas there. I think I'm going to clean up the quill bracket thingy on my lathe as he did also.


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## double10

I installed the DRO on my Grizzly G0755 mill much like Darkzero did. I put the Z axis on the head in case I ever did need it, and put a magnetic scale with a larger remote readout for my old eyes, on the quill.


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## Navy Chief

double10 said:


> I installed the DRO on my Grizzly G0755 mill much like Darkzero did. I put the Z axis on the head in case I ever did need it, and put a magnetic scale with a larger remote readout for my old eyes, on the quill.



Not to get too far off topic but do you have any pictures of the install on your G0755?


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## ariscats

coolidge said:


> Yes, its a depth stop by design but is rather crude. You turn the thumb screw at the bottom and that cast iron piece on the threaded rod moves up/down and stops against the casting. The rod is wobbly and of course there is no quick adjustment like on many depth stops. The center of that stop T pokes through the faceplate and the arrow indicator screws on there, there is an inch scale printed on the face plate.
> 
> As for the DRO...I'll PM you.


My version of xx45 clone has two micro switches mounted on the holes visible on the photo.When the lower
one is activated the motor reverses.When the quill retracts the motor reverses again to the original sense.
The function can be selected by a selector  on the control panel.S
upposedly is for power threading in through
holes.The piece on the threaded rod is only good for activating the micros.It is totally inadequate,to my
opinion,to function as a stop.
Ariscats


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## coolidge

I hit the local metal supplier today for some aluminum bar for this project. DZ forced me to buy a bunch of steel cut offs with his over the top quality depth stop. Dang DZ that Morton Machine Works quill stop is not cheap, looks like I can get it on sale though at Enco for about $37.


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## darkzero

I got mine from Grizzly. They had them for just over $30 & I added it to an order I needed to place. Grizzly also has some other less expensive alternatives if the different thread pitch & lack of a scale doesn't matter.


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## double10

Navy Chief said:


> Not to get too far off topic but do you have any pictures of the install on your G0755?


I do have lot's of pictures, but being new to this forum, I have to have three posts to be able to post them. This may be my third, I'll check when I get a chance. I also got my G0709 lathe last Thursday and I'm putting a DRO on it too. I'll document that process with pics too.


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## wrmiller

coolidge said:


> I hit the local metal supplier today for some aluminum bar for this project. DZ forced me to buy a bunch of steel cut offs with his over the top quality depth stop. Dang DZ that Morton Machine Works quill stop is not cheap, looks like I can get it on sale though at Enco for about



Yup, DZ is costing me more money again... Received my depth stop late last week.


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## Navy Chief

wrmiller19 said:


> Yup, DZ is costing me more money again... Received my depth stop late last week.



I am resisting the urge to click on add to card, you guys are a bad influence...


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## sanddan

I started with a digital quill scale and then added a 2 axis DRO for the X and Y. The DRO display was a 3 axis and I wanted the Z axis on the same display so I removed the first scale and added a DRO scale. I only move the head for tool clearance so having the DRO on the quill made sense to me.


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## T Bredehoft

Reading through this thread, I wondered about  3 to 5 stage adjustable positive stop for the head, sorta like was done with a lathe, mount it at the bottom of the head travel, with swing-into-position stops each with a knurled thread adjustment. They could be preset for different tools,_ if you remembered to set them. _ Once m PM45 gets here I'll look into it more seriously.


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## darkzero

T Bredehoft said:


> Reading through this thread, I wondered about  3 to 5 stage adjustable positive stop for the head, sorta like was done with a lathe, mount it at the bottom of the head travel, with swing-into-position stops each with a knurled thread adjustment. They could be preset for different tools,_ if you remembered to set them. _ Once m PM45 gets here I'll look into it more seriously.



That's a good idea that I didn't think of when making my depth stop. My Burgmaster turrett drill press has that feature. Although I do make multiples of parts here & there, my quick adjust depth stop that I made for my PM-45 has been more than adequate for me. I'm very happy with it, I can definitely live without a multiple depth stop. Would be cool to see if someone decides to come up with one.


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## darkzero

One thing to consider regarding the mounting of the quill linear scale DRO. Basically there are 2 ways to mount it, with the display/read head fixed or with the scale fixed. I choose & prefer to have the display fixed rather than the display dynamic. With head mounted to the faceplate & the scale being dynamic, the head stays stationary when moving the quill up & down. I didn't like the idea of the display moving up & down when the quill is moved.  Also less parts to make having the scale mounted directly to the quill, in fact I only had to make one part which was the mount for the scale to the quill bracket. Regardless, either way works perfectly fine.


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