# your thoughts on using MT2 ER32 collet chuck in the tailstock.



## Ken from ontario (Jan 6, 2018)

Do you use an Extended Range chuck such as ER32 with (MT#2/#3  ) in your tailstock? is it in any way a better chuck for tailstock than the conventional drill chuck like Albrecht?
I am thinking of using one in my mini lathe but there isn't much info that I could find  about how it would perform, I don't see how it would not be just as good as a drill chuck  , i would imagine it would be more time consuming to change bits (compared to a keyless chuck) but other than that is there anything  about them that makes an ER chuck an  unsuitable tool holding chuck for tailstock?


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## Ropata (Jan 6, 2018)

Ken from ontario said:


> Do you use an Extended Range chuck such as ER32 with (MT#2/#3 ) in your tailstock? is it in any way a better chuck for tailstock than the conventional drill chuck like Albrecht?
> I am thinking of using one in my mini lathe but there isn't much info that I could find about how it would perform, I don't see how it would not be just as good as a drill chuck , i would imagine it would be more time consuming to change bits (compared to a keyless chuck) but other than that is there anything about them that makes an ER chuck an unsuitable tool holding chuck for tailstock?


Probably better accuracy depending on the quality of your drill chuck but like you say, real time consuming. 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## Ulma Doctor (Jan 6, 2018)

ER's are often used for holding endmills in milling machines.
i can't see much of a reason to doubt it would work in a tailstock.
have fun with it!

i wish i had some Albrecht chucks.
sadly i have their clones from shars, they seem to work ok


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## Ken from ontario (Jan 6, 2018)

Ulma Doctor said:


> ER's are often used for holding endmills im milling machines.
> i can't see much of a reason to doubt it would work in a tailstock.
> have fun with it!
> 
> ...


The albrecht chuck that I use in my lathe is old and the jaws are probably too worn out , maybe that's why I find it a PITA to use in tailstock, if I need to   use a drill bit anything over 1/4" , I usually go with the keyed chuck so I can crank the key in 2 spot, the ER 32 collets  should clamp much better and as mentioned above more accurately than the conventional chuck .


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## mksj (Jan 6, 2018)

There is no doubt that an ER system holds a drill more securely and maybe more rigidly. But, if you consider something like drilling a 1/2 hole in a rod, you may start out with a center drill, then use a 1/4" or 3/8" and finish with a 1/2". If you want to square the hole base, then you drop in an end mill or switch to a boring bar if enlarging. If you had to do that with a collet system it would be very laborious.  Collets need to be clean and dry, difficult when your hands get messy when using the lathe.  A good key or keyless chuck is much quicker. I use a precision Z-Live keyless 5/8" MT3 chuck in my tailstock and have not found it to be limiting as to accuracy or holding ability. A friend of mine has the Shar's nickle plated version, it is very nice. If you buy a better precision keyless chuck, they work very well and I have not had an issue with releasing a drill. What they do not work as well with is power tapping going in and out of a work piece. I do have a MT3 ER40 setup that I use for larger drills and end mills in the tailstock, but beyond 1/2" I use dedicated MT drills in the tailstock. Cost wise a decent ER MT chuck will be similar to a good MT keyless chuck. I think they all have their place, but I can be turning ten widgets which require 6 different drilling sequences each, if using collet system for the tailstock it would be impractical. Even iusing a keyed chuck is a pain. YMMV.


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## 4GSR (Jan 6, 2018)

I have two of them set up holding geometric die heads in the tailstock.  A ER-25 and ER-32.  So far good deal. 

I don't recommend using it in a situation where you are constantly changing drill bits, reamers, etc. out.


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## 4GSR (Jan 6, 2018)

I might add, you could set up several with common tools you use on the lathe.  Of course I do the same with drill chucks, and also have a tailstock turret, too.


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## Ken from ontario (Jan 6, 2018)

4gsr said:


> you could set up several with common tools you use on the lathe.


That's what I'm thinking, I already have 2 of the most common collet sizes, I do the same with R8 tool holders .


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## magicniner (Jan 7, 2018)

I have ER25, ER32 and ER40, initially purchased for the mill but now permanently with the lathe. Their main use is for things my chucks won't or shouldn't hold well including die heads and roller boxes but it's always handy to have an extra holder.


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## Ken from ontario (Jan 7, 2018)

magicniner said:


> I have ER25, ER32 and ER40, initially purchased for the mill but now permanently with the lathe. Their main use is for things my chucks won't or shouldn't hold well including die heads and roller boxes but it's always handy to have an extra holder.


It's good to know that no one so far mentioned any problem with MT shank  slippage , since ER collets  do a great job at clamping on the tools bits/dies etc, I was worried there might be a greater chance that the morse taper shaft might slip in the tailstock quill .
Thank you all for your comments so far.


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## woodchucker (Jan 7, 2018)

Ken from ontario said:


> The albrecht chuck that I use in my lathe is old and the jaws are probably too worn out , maybe that's why I find it a PITA to use in tailstock, if I need to   use a drill bit anything over 1/4" , I usually go with the keyed chuck so I can crank the key in 2 spot, the ER 32 collets  should clamp much better and as mentioned above more accurately than the conventional chuck .


why not just order a rebuild kit for the jaws.


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## Ken from ontario (Jan 7, 2018)

The keyed chuck do the job  better than expected .
I would like to know more about the pros and cons of using ER chucks.


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## mksj (Jan 7, 2018)

Some MT ER holders come with a tang, but in most cases they are usually low quality from what I have seen. A number of us have purchased better quality MT ER holders and added a thread in tang. some examples are in this post. My tang is permanently fastened so there is no issues with reversing the chuck.
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/er40-shank-for-lathe-mt3.58791/#post-484555

On dies and taps there are a number of different options. I have machined die holders and tap holding chucks in various sizes that slide on a shaft, one that fits into a chuck for smaller work and another that uses a MT insert that has a sliding shaft. The holder spins on the shaft, it can be locked or hand tensioned. Most of the VFD system I build have a jog joystick, a number of individuals use this to power tap in/out.

One issue that happens infrequently but is dangerous is MT pullout from the tailstock. When sequentially enlarging a hole or sometimes with squaring up a hole/shoulder with an end mill the drill will dig into the material and want to pullout of the tailstock. It will auto feed forward, W/O a tang it will pull forward and spin, with a tang it will pull out but continue to feed.


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## Ken from ontario (Jan 7, 2018)

MKSJ, I was wondering whether it is advisable to get one with a tang or with M10 drawbar thread,either one comes with a problem of how to attach them to the tailstock,the lathe I have is a small mini lathe with a small tailstock,an MT2 shaft with a tang sticks out about 3/4" but if the tang prevents slippage , maybe I can cut a "U" in the tail end TS to  grip  the tang.
I have no idea how to secure an MT shank with M10/M12 drawbar thread to the tailstock yet but was worried if if I just slip it in the quill like I do with other MTshank tools , the extreme forces generated during drilling would cause it to slip.


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## rwm (Jan 7, 2018)

MT2 slippage is a problem, at least for me. I have already scored the tailstock taper once. My tailstock will not accept a tang. I am not sure how to combat this except to make sure the taper is clean and well seated. It still can slip with larger drills as noted above.
Robert


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## mksj (Jan 7, 2018)

You machine a tang with a thread on it, the tang length can be a bit shorter if you have limited travel. I locked my tang in using some blue loctite, but if you want permanent you could use a high strength type.  Otherwise just lock the tang in a vise and tighten the arbor onto it, usually there are some flats on the ER collet end, or just do it by hand.  Some vendors sell screw in tangs, but very easy to make one out of round stock. I used round stock, turned my thread on one end and then put it in a square collet block and machines the flats. If you have flat rectangular stock you could mill the tang width and height, hold it in a 4J independent chuck and turn the thread for the tang, then cut the tang to length. My tang is just flats with no radius where it screws into the ER shank. Take a look at the link provided above for different approaches.
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Chucks/Drill-Chuck-Arbors/Screw-In-Tangs


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## rwm (Jan 7, 2018)

"maybe I can cut a "U" in the tail end TS to grip the tang"-I did not think that was possible. How would you go about that? I wish my tailstock would accept a tang.
Robert

Edit: here are some ideas

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/no-tailstock-tang-retention-lathe-163800/

R


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## Ken from ontario (Jan 7, 2018)

mksj said:


> You machine a tang with a thread on it, the tang length can be a bit shorter if you have limited travel.


The problem is how to firmly secure an MT shank with a tang (or without) in the tailstock so it doesn't slip.


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## Ken from ontario (Jan 7, 2018)

rwm said:


> "maybe I can cut a "U" in the tail end TS to grip the tang"-I did not think that was possible. How would you go about that? I wish my tailstock would accept a tang.
> Robert


I don't know yet,that was me thinking out loud,I haven't looked at what's possible and what's not  but maybe if we put our heads together we could come up with some kind of modification  that works, for example  I'm thinking maybe to use  a drawbar for tailstock? wonder how that would work, just thinking out loud again.


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## rwm (Jan 7, 2018)

If you read that other thread I posted, several people made the point that the tang was not supposed to be used to stop rotation! A lot of info in that thread. I think I have been making a mistake by step drilling for larger holes. You need the forward pressure on the TS to prevent slippage.
Robert


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## Bob Korves (Jan 7, 2018)

It is possible to put a dog on the drill with the tail against the compound or cross slide to take the torque of heavy drilling.  It works.  I have pretty much given up on trying to drill big holes in steel with the tailstock.   Too many things can and do go wrong, and it hurts the work, the tooling and the lathe, and makes the operator (me!) afraid of it, which is not a good thing.  I have taken to drilling a single hole (no step drilling) that I know I can do safely and with confidence and then boring the hole to completion.  Takes longer, but is a lot less exciting.


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## Ken from ontario (Jan 7, 2018)

Bob Korves said:


> I have taken to drilling a single hole (no step drilling) that I know I can do safely and with confidence and then boring the hole to completion. Takes longer, but is a lot less exciting.


That pretty much is how I drill larger holes with my small lathe, it is tedious but  no drama.


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## Bob Korves (Jan 7, 2018)

It is also possible to power feed heavier drills by connecting the (slightly loose) tailstock to the carriage and pulling it, or by buying or making a chuck mount or Morse taper socket for the tool post.  I have no intention of going there.


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## mikey (Jan 7, 2018)

When I have to drill a hole larger than 1/2", I pilot drill the stock and switch to a main drill with an integral MT tang on it. Tap it into the tailstock quill and it won't slip. A big drill with a reduced shank (like S&D drills) will often cause the chuck to spin in the tailstock taper if it catches. It isn't the chuck that slips so much as the MT. Big drills with integral MT shanks are not cheap but they hold solidly and cause much less excitement.


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