# Feedback on first lathe - 8x14 600W variable speed lathe CJ210A



## wachuko

Hello, newbie here looking for guidance.  If this is not the right section to place this question, admin please move to the correct section.

I want to get started in learning how to use a metal lathe but first I have to buy one.  Reading several threads those folks that have gone with a mini (7x12) find that an 8x12" (or 14") would have been a better option... So I decided to start looking at those sizes... this thread pretty much convinced me of this:









						HarborFreight 8x12 Lathe
					

I havent seen/read any posts here on the HF 8x12.. with is really an 8x14 and the same exact machine as the LatheMaster 8x14 (but in red of course)  I am new to machining in general.. and this is my first lathe.. (so take this for what its worth!) ;) lol  I spent some time reading about hobby...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




I am trying to get into learning with the least amount of $$ possible...

I do not have an initial project in mind.  But I have seen a few videos on improving an HF 20-ton press that would be perfect for a few things to make.  So as a first set of projects, I would like to make all the mods to my press, shown in this video:






I do have motorcycles that I am always working on, as well as projects with my cars.  At this point I just want to have a lathe to start messing around with it, but I want something that will be low cost of entry while still holding me for awhile.

I was pretty much set on the Harbor Freight 8x12 until I saw this one on eBay - 8x14 600W Variable speed Metal Lathe :







But I can't seem to find any reviews on it... I did find this video but it is not the same unit...






So my questions are:

1. Am I thinking straight here that a 8x12/14" lathe would be a good starting point for a newbie?
2. Is that eBay lathe a better option than the HF lathe?  The eBay one goes for around US$680.00... the HF would be around US$600.00 (20% discount coupon and tax)

Thank you in advanced for all your comments.


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## wachuko

I just want to avoid spending 1,600.00 for a G078Z or even 2930.00 for a G0752Z (wich is the one I really like).

Easy for me to speak of what I want when I am completely clueless... 

Anyway, hope you guys understand what I am trying to say.  Want to start with something to know if this is something  will use often and can learn the skills before I dive into a larger and more expensive machine...


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## DangerZone

I am also just starting out. Just got my first lathe a few months ago, but have yet to make any chips with it. Kinda turned into more of a machine rescue project than an "learn how to machine" project. Still working on getting it running and everything else, so take my advice with a grain of salt. 

What I would suggest, and (was my initial plan) is get the cheapest 7x14 lathe you can find, and just play with it for a while. I suspect that nearly twice the money on an 8x14 isn't worthwhile. Depending on what you actually want to do with it, but I think 8x14 is still going to be on the fairly small end of things. Play with the cheap mini lathe, and 1)keep your eye out for a used southbend at a good price or 2)save up for a precision matthews in the size you like(My goal is a 1030V unless I win the lottery).


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## wachuko

DangerZone said:


> I am also just starting out. Just got my first lathe a few months ago, but have yet to make any chips with it. Kinda turned into more of a machine rescue project than an "learn how to machine" project. Still working on getting it running and everything else, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
> 
> What I would suggest, and (was my initial plan) is get the cheapest 7x14 lathe you can find, and just play with it for a while. I suspect that nearly twice the money on an 8x14 isn't worthwhile. Depending on what you actually want to do with it, but I think 8x14 is still going to be on the fairly small end of things. Play with the cheap mini lathe, and 1)keep your eye out for a used southbend at a good price or 2)save up for a precision matthews in the size you like(My goal is a 1030V unless I win the lottery).



Thank you for your feedback!  Yes, that PM1030V is sweet!  What lathe did you get?  Could not find post from you sharing the details.

I watched this video and was just smiling at how easy it is to start with something in your mind and rapidly ending with a much larger and expensive tool... he ended up with the PM-1228VF-LB at double the initial budget he had set ...  but I digress...

What got me thinking on the 8x14 over the 7x12( or 14") was this photo from the thread I share the link in my first post:






I just do not want something just to play with... I want it to at least be able to use it for something... and reading on how quickly that 7x12 shrinks when you add the chuck and what not, well... for just a few more bucks, I could have a starter lathe that will do a bit more... Also was concerned with the plastic gears on the smaller lathe...

This video was a good one that shared some of the benefits of the 8 vs the 7






I was really ready to get the Harbor Freight as it seems to have a lot of support and add-ons that I could get from https://littlemachineshop.com

But that one on eBay threw me a curve... I just could not find any info on it.

Not sure I get the double the price of the 8 over the 7.   If I did the math correctly, the difference is around 150.00.  

Again, thank you for the feedback.


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## Aaron_W

Something to look at is what comes with a machine. Sure that one on Ebay is cheap but it also comes with practically no tooling, just a chuck, a tool post and a dead center for the tail stock.

The Grizzly 8x16 is almost twice the price but it comes with 2 chucks (3 and 4 jaw), a faceplate, steady and follow rests, and two centers (one for the headstock, one for the tail stock so you can turn between centers). That probably doesn't add up to the full amount of the difference, but does account for a good chunk of it. You are also getting a known vendor to go back to if you have issues vs an ebay seller who may or may not respond to issues.

Most of these lathes of the same size are very closely related regardless of the brand, many being made on the same production line with only minor variations based on the specific vendors requests.


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## Aaron_W

Another thought, definitely consider used for these. I don't generally suggest people completely new to machining look at used, but unlike larger lathes, mini lathes rarely suffer from wear. They may have been abused or neglected but are very unlikely to be worn out. Most just never see the use that could do that to them. Abuse and neglect are easier to spot than wear even if you don't really know what to look for yet.

Many small lathes are purchased when somebody thinks machining is something that they want to do, but then they find out, yeah no so much and the lathe sits for a few years until somebody is cleaning out the garage and it gets put on Craigslist.

On a used lathe look at the tooling that comes with it. I've seen many of these mini-lathes asking close to the price of new which at first looks like a very optimistic price until you see that it is being sold with some nice tooling that could easily approach the value of the lathe itself. 

If you get a mini-lathe for $500-800 you can easily expect to spend another $400-500 in short order to get the tooling you need to do, well just about anything.


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## matthewsx

Search @DavidR8 for the answer to your questions, he has been through exactly what you are contemplating now.

Myself, I bought one of those Chinese 3 in 1 machines and couldn’t do anything worthwhile with it. I was lucky to find a Seneca Falls Star lathe for $300 that has served me well for 15 years now. I was also lucky to sell the 3 in 1 for only a few hundred less than I paid. 

This hobby will cost money no matter how you get into it. If I wanted a mini lathe I think I would keep looking for a used one cheap rather than pay full price anywhere. Tooling and making it work correctly will cost enough that buying new will come close to serviceable old iron cost.

It’s kinda like learning to play the guitar, you don’t need a $5000 vintage Gibson to learn on but that $50 pawn shop axe might just convince you to try another hobby. Don’t be that guy who starts out all gung-ho and ends up selling his gear for a loss after a year of frustration. You’ve come to the right place to ask questions and figure out what will work best for what you want to do. Time and patience will be your friends here, really do your homework before spending anything (unless a really sweet deal falls into your lap).

People on here do great work with all different types of machines, mostly they have to spend a lot of time learning before they get good results though. You will do great work too if you’re willing to put the shop time in....

Cheers and welcome to the forum,

john


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## DavidR8

Thanks @matthewsx @wachuko I'll chime in here.

I started searching for a used full size lathe. Members here will attest to many questions I asked in my search. I was getting a bit dejected as I live in a machinery desert as @francist so aptly put it. I decided to buy a new 7x14 mini lathe. It was relatively cheap and there was a lot of reasons for that. I had to fix some defects to make it usable. I put a Quick Change Tool Post (QCTP) on it but I realized that it was not going to satisfy my needs (or wants).

So I started looking at used machines. This was never an industrial or manufacturing center so there's no base of old tradespeople with garages full of machines.
So I put out an ad looking for a lathe. In my search I very nearly bought a used 10" x 48" South Bend10K that needed help for $1100 from a machinery dealer.

The ad turned up no less than four decent lathes drop into my lap. I made alerts on used.com and craigslist and finally hit paydirt when a mint 1973 South Bend 10K showed up one day. Problem was that it was a good 4-6 hours away so I called immediately and talked to the owner. He sent me detailed pictures of everything I asked for. I committed to it without seeing it in the flesh *only* because I felt comfortable after doing so much research. It was $100 more than the other 10K that I was very close to buying.

It turned out to be as good as the pictures. I've since added a 4-jaw chuck, a QCTP and a live center. These are kind of the table stakes (IMHO) for a lathe of any dimension. Plus you'll need some measuring tools. I'm no expert but I'm climbing the hill 

The mini-lathe hooked me on machining. I regret the purchase somewhat because the cash could have been spent on more tooling for the lathe I have now. I'll sell it and recoup a fair bit of my money so all is not lost.

My point in all of this is that if you are going to invest it makes sense to spend your time researching, looking at used machines and talking to the amazing crew here.


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## wachuko

Great advice.  Thank you all!!

@DavidR8 - just went through your thread: https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/diamond-in-the-rough.81221/

I come empty on ebay and craigslist searches around my area for anything at a budget price... everything I find is over US$2,500.00 and look huge. 

Here is one but for 3K:









						Lathe - tools - by owner - sale
					

South Bend Metal lathe in good condition. Heavy 10"; CL8187 Z Bed length 3 1/2. Best offers...



					tampa.craigslist.org
				




I am going to have to look out of state...

And to be honest, not sure what I should be looking for... I see them listed as precision lathes, engine, chucking, etc.  And that just confuses the heck out of me....

I was trying to stay under 6-700 for my first lathe to learn on.  Later, if I really get hooked, then I can look for something better.

Also, was not aware of other sites where used equipment could be found.  Will organize my thoughts and continue the search.

Thank you all again for your help and guidance!!


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## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> Something to look at is what comes with a machine. Sure that one on Ebay is cheap but it also comes with practically no tooling, just a chuck, a tool post and a dead center for the tail stock.
> 
> The Grizzly 8x16 is almost twice the price but it comes with 2 chucks (3 and 4 jaw), a faceplate, steady and follow rests, and two centers (one for the headstock, one for the tail stock so you can turn between centers). That probably doesn't add up to the full amount of the difference, but does account for a good chunk of it. You are also getting a known vendor to go back to if you have issues vs an ebay seller who may or may not respond to issues.
> 
> Most of these lathes of the same size are very closely related regardless of the brand, many being made on the same production line with only minor variations based on the specific vendors requests.



I have that one, G0768Z 8" x 16" Variable-Speed Lathe with DRO, and the G0752Z 10" x 22" VS Benchtop Lathe with 2-Axis DRO on my wish list...

Maybe that G0768Z is the way to go as my first lathe...even if it blows my initial budget out the window...


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## Rata222

It sounds like you are mechanically inclined and the items you work on are fairly large.  My opinion is similar to DavidR8.  My personal experience with the lathes  that I have owned is such….

As I was learning – I found that I was able to produce better parts on heavier machines. They had more mass and I could get better finishes.  More room to work.  Though all my machines are in very good condition (either restored or purchased that way). I now most always go to my largest lathe (12”) over my smaller machines.  I find it the most enjoyable to run. [ In contrast I have seen beautiful work produced on a 7x10 by others.]

I think you will find a larger lathe a better value for the type of work, I am thinking, that you want to do.

I patiently sought after lathes that I felt were  a good value – that I could resell *without a loss* if I decided to.  I guess I have been fortunate in finding good deals. If you have friend that is knowledgable in machinery take them with you to inspect.  I have acquired most all my tooling with the machines or going to estate auctions. 

Though our experiences-hence our opinions- are all different – we are all here trying to help you on this fun (and costly) journey.  Good luck.


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## DangerZone

My only advice is if buying used, take your time. I've been looking at everything I can find for about a year now, and in a year I've only found a couple of suitable lathes come up on local craigslist ad's. 

I'll admit i didn't look very close at your ebay listing. Most 8x lathes I have seen are roughly 2x the price of the 7x lathes. Thisoldtony on youtube has a few excellent video's on the 7x lathe's if your interested at all. I think most of the information will apply to the 8x lathes as well. 

For what it's worth, this is the lathe I got a few months ago. It's a turret lathe, so definitely not the same thing, but it was a good deal, I have the room for it, and was able to move it (Took 4-5 of us 16 hours to move 40 miles). Just spending lots of time now figuring out the 3 phase stuff to a point where I won't kill myself. I will admit though, I think old turret lathes are neat, and no one can get rid of them. I kinda want another...


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## wachuko

Rata222 said:


> It sounds like you are mechanically inclined and the items you work on are fairly large.  My opinion is similar to DavidR8.  My personal experience with the lathes  that I have owned is such….
> 
> As I was learning – I found that I was able to produce better parts on heavier machines. They had more mass and I could get better finishes.  More room to work.  Though all my machines are in very good condition (either restored or purchased that way). I now most always go to my largest lathe (12”) over my smaller machines.  I find it the most enjoyable to run. [ In contrast I have seen beautiful work produced on a 7x10 by others.]
> 
> I think you will find a larger lathe a better value for the type of work, I am thinking, that you want to do.
> 
> I patiently sought after lathes that I felt were  a good value – that I could resell *without a loss* if I decided to.  I guess I have been fortunate in finding good deals. If you have friend that is knowledgeable in machinery take them with you to inspect.  I have acquired most all my tooling with the machines or going to estate auctions.
> 
> Though our experiences-hence our opinions- are all different – we are all here trying to help you on this fun (and costly) journey.  Good luck.



Unfortunately I do not have a friend with this kind of knowledge...



DangerZone said:


> My only advice is if buying used, take your time. I've been looking at everything I can find for about a year now, and in a year I've only found a couple of suitable lathes come up on local craigslist ad's.
> 
> I'll admit i didn't look very close at your ebay listing. Most 8x lathes I have seen are roughly 2x the price of the 7x lathes. Thisoldtony on youtube has a few excellent video's on the 7x lathe's if your interested at all. I think most of the information will apply to the 8x lathes as well.
> 
> For what it's worth, this is the lathe I got a few months ago. It's a turret lathe, so definitely not the same thing, but it was a good deal, I have the room for it, and was able to move it (Took 4-5 of us 16 hours to move 40 miles). Just spending lots of time now figuring out the 3 phase stuff to a point where I won't kill myself. I will admit though, I think old turret lathes are neat, and no one can get rid of them. I kinda want another...



I must admit... patience is not one of my strong virtues when it comes to buying tools... I want to start playing as soon as possible.  That always plays against me.  Stupid on my end, I know...   I am only saved by the fact that I am capped on the financial side, lol, I do not have the excess income to spend without control... that and the CFO at home keeps me in check.

Anyway, a good example is that I wanted to learn how to use a TIG welder... rather than doing my homework (like I am trying to do now with the lathe research) I went and got one.... well, turns out that what I got does not work with aluminum, and that is something I wanted to play with.  So I will be spending now more on getting a spool gun for my MIG welder (which I am learning is not the optimal solution for welding aluminum) or fork the bill for another TIG welder with Aluminum welding capabilities (which is what I will end up doing)...

With the lathe, I think that I will be able to hold off on an impulse buy (I keep repeating that on my head) to do the proper research.  It helps that I am limited on space at home right now... next year, if all goes well, I should have a workshop for all my carp.  Here is a photo of what my garage looks like between the times I get to organize it (only to mess it up again in a couple of months):






I was looking at the small lathes because I could place it on top of my bench for now...   Here is a bad photo of the bench, this was back in 2015 when the mill arrived... you see ii behind the mill and drill press... I could clear it for the mini lathe to be placed there...






I barely have enough space for the mill with all the other carp that is in the way for a lathe on a stand... on a side note, love to play with the mill... need to get of my arse to finally install the DRO I made for it...






Reading all the feedback, I should just wait for when I have my workshop and then start looking for the right lathe... arghhh man, I wanted to play now!!


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## DavidR8

To avoid a second TIG experience I would do more research. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wachuko

DavidR8 said:


> To avoid a second TIG experience I would do more research.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA yeah....


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## Winegrower

I have out of curiosity played in the store with the HF little lathes.   I apologize for saying this, and I am sure some will disagree, but they seem like toys.   The size and quality are just at a level that I could not imagine doing anything that was truly fun with this equipment.    Perhaps if you worked only on small plastic or soft metal pieces, making clocks maybe...but for the cost, I am sure an older Logan or South Bend would be much more satisfying.   

And remember, whatever you spend on a “real” lathe, you will get that back or better if you trade up later.   I am not sure that is true of mini-lathes.

P.S. I have nothing against making clocks.


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## tmenyc

Funny you say that; they had one running at the West Springfield Mass store a month back when I was there,  and had exactly the same reaction. Nothing felt tight or rigid; the controls sorta kinda worked.  They wouldn't let me actually turn anything or touch the machine while it was running.  It was bouncing around a bit, too, but that was probably because no attempt had been made to level it.  
Tim


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## DavidR8

wachuko said:


> Unfortunately I do not have a friend with this kind of knowledge...
> 
> 
> 
> I must admit... patience is not one of my strong virtues when it comes to buying tools... I want to start playing as soon as possible.  That always plays against me.  Stupid on my end, I know...   I am only saved by the fact that I am capped on the financial side, lol, I do not have the excess income to spend without control... that and the CFO at home keeps me in check.
> 
> Anyway, a good example is that I wanted to learn how to use a TIG welder... rather than doing my homework (like I am trying to do now with the lathe research) I went and got one.... well, turns out that what I got does not work with aluminum, and that is something I wanted to play with.  So I will be spending now more on getting a spool gun for my MIG welder (which I am learning is not the optimal solution for welding aluminum) or fork the bill for another TIG welder with Aluminum welding capabilities (which is what I will end up doing)...
> 
> With the lathe, I think that I will be able to hold off on an impulse buy (I keep repeating that on my head) to do the proper research.  It helps that I am limited on space at home right now... next year, if all goes well, I should have a workshop for all my carp.  Here is a photo of what my garage looks like between the times I get to organize it (only to mess it up again in a couple of months):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking at the small lathes because I could place it on top of my bench for now...   Here is a bad photo of the bench, this was back in 2015 when the mill arrived... you see ii behind the mill and drill press... I could clear it for the mini lathe to be placed there...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I barely have enough space for the mill with all the other carp that is in the way for a lathe on a stand... on a side note, love to play with the mill... need to get of my arse to finally install the DRO I made for it...
> 
> View attachment 310569
> 
> 
> Reading all the feedback, I should just wait for when I have my workshop and then start looking for the right lathe... arghhh man, I wanted to play now!!


Is that a 912 engine in the foreground?


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## wachuko

DavidR8 said:


> Is that a 912 engine in the foreground?



Yes... with the help of the 912BBS forum, I rebuilt that engine from scratch... 

From this:






To this and with no prior knowledge on rebuilding an engine... nothing more dangerous than an ignorant with initiative, lol :











Everything documented here:






						My 1967 912 Build Thread
					

Similar to my other threads...starting one for bringing back the 912 to a decent condition.  1967 Porsche 912 Engine: 751692 Transmission: 235 346 VIN: 459557 Color: 63 6602 L - Polo Red, polorot Distributor - Bosch Cast Iron 022  Purchased date: January 8, 2014 Purchased price: US$8,200.00...



					www.912bbs.org


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## Aaron_W

Winegrower said:


> I have out of curiosity played in the store with the HF little lathes.   I apologize for saying this, and I am sure some will disagree, but they seem like toys.   The size and quality are just at a level that I could not imagine doing anything that was truly fun with this equipment.    Perhaps if you worked only on small plastic or soft metal pieces, making clocks maybe...but for the cost, I am sure an older Logan or South Bend would be much more satisfying.
> 
> And remember, whatever you spend on a “real” lathe, you will get that back or better if you trade up later.   I am not sure that is true of mini-lathes.
> 
> P.S. I have nothing against making clocks.



I've fiddled with the 7x12s at Harbor Freight, I agree with you on the quality, plastic handles and the fit feels loose and sloppy none of which inspire confidence. Presumably the display models are just thrown together out of a box with little care and no adjustment. One properly assembled and adjusted might offer a better first impression. Still I gather most owners do a fair bit of improvement to theirs in order to make them serviceable, so there is added cost of better parts and the time investment to consider.  

I have a Sherline mini-lathe (even smaller) and I've fiddled with a 9x20 Jet at the local metal supply and both are miles ahead of the HF as far as fit and finish go. I've made parts from steel on my Sherline, so pretty sure the 7x12 can too.


Size is pretty subjective entirely based on what you are doing, I've had a lot of fun turning tiny parts for models on my Sherline. There is a Monarch 20x96" lathe in the shop where I'm taking welding classes and pretty much everything seems like a toy compared to that beast.

Small lathes actually seem to hold their value pretty well. I think most any tool loses about 40% the second you open the box. The mini-lathes seem to be no worse here and maybe even do a little better since they are fairly cheap to start with and many buyers are just starting out in the hobby with a small budget so saving $100 on a $500 mini-lathe seems like a deal. Agree with you on used, assuming you start with a decent deal you can probably get back what you put in. 
That of course assumes you find a good deal, and it is not hard for a new and inexperienced hobby machinist to score themselves a turd the first time out.


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## DavidR8

It occurs to me that an Atlas 6" might be just the ticket for a first lathe...


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## wachuko

DavidR8 said:


> It occurs to me that an Atlas 6" might be just the ticket for a first lathe...



Do not take this the wrong way, but why?  All the feedback that I read on those is that they are overrated and overpriced for what they are... and small.  There might be a certain nostalgia with older equipment, but from what I read those were not great when new so why would they be good now?   Of course, I am clueless, a newbie, basing all this in google searches and YouTube videos... I know squat about them.  So please pardon my ignorant comments.

Here are a few links to sites dedicated to them:






						Atlas 6-inch Lathe
					

Atlas 6-inch Lathe Mk. 1



					www.lathes.co.uk
				






			Atlas/Craftsman 618 information
		










						Atlas618lathe groups.io Group
					

A group dedicated to owners of the Atlas (and Sears Craftsman 101) 618 lathe and the newer Mark 2 lathe. Your questions, tips, comments, and lathe and project photographs are welcomed.  Extensive file and picture sections now have space for members' for sale and wanted to buy items.  This group...




					groups.io
				




These Atlas 618 lathes are going for anywhere 600.00 to over 1,849.00!! 

I really do not want a used unit.  Too many unknowns.  I would have to spend time figuring out if the darn thing is missing something... or if it requires fixing something that is broken or worn out due to use/abuse.  I know that for some, this is part of the fun... not for me.  I want to be responsible for screwing up my new lathe  , not trying to fix someone's else.


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## DavidR8

If it were me I would go with the Grizzly simply because any issues might be easier to deal with as compared to a faceless eBay retailer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Aaron_W

A 6" Atlas is comparable in capacity to a 7 or 8" mini-lathe, so if the price was right that would certainly be an option. Around here the price is rarely right unless it is in project condition. I see the same with people recommending Unimats. At one time those were probably realistic options, but the prices on some of the small vintage lathes has shot up out of proportion to their actual utility and there is now a much larger variety of decent (and often relatively cheap) small lathes available.


You really want to take a look at what you expect a lathe to do for you. The size of the lathe is a bit misleading, the stated size on many of the Chinese mini-lathes even more so (most are 2" shorter in length than the stated size for some reason).

Sorry if this is too basic for you but I don't know what you know. 7x14 (or whatever) is the swing (diameter of material) and length of material that can be turned between centers. So a 7x14 can theoretically turn a piece of material 7" in diameter by 14" long, but it reality much smaller. That size relates to turning between centers and most hobby work is not done between centers, it usually done using a chuck or collets.

The nominal chuck size used on a lathe is generally around 50% of the swing. A 6" to 9" swing lathe is often found with a 3" to 4" chuck on them so in practical terms there may be a lot less difference between them than you would assume. At the larger end you may find a 9" lathe fitted with a 5" chuck which would be impractical on the smaller lathes. Collets are much smaller. typically 1 to 1-1/2" material so not going to make much difference whether used on a 6" or 12" lathe (excepting spindle bore).

The length will be quickly used up for some operations like drilling or boring a hole. Any lathe with less than 12" between centers is very much at risk of being too short to drill a hole if you assume 2-3" for the lathe chuck, 3" for a drill chuck and 3" for a drill bit, then at 12" you are only left with 3-4" for your part and some space to work.

I think we have all been there on the realistic budget vs having something to use right now. It is worth holding out until you can budget for something that will work for you.


Mini-lathes can be utterly worthless if your work is too big for them, but they are good machines within their limited capacity. Based on the kind of work, I am assuming you will want to do, I'd think a 9x19 or 10x22 lathe would be more satisfying for you than an 8x16 or smaller. Still small enough to mount on a bench top and a 10x22 can just barely be moved by 2 strong people (300lbs-ish). Many of the 9 and 10" lathes also include a quick change gear box which makes threading parts easier.


Just so you understand my perspective, I started out with a very small 3.5x17" lathe which I still use, but I have added a 10x24 lathe to handle the larger projects I found I also wanted to work on.


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## wachuko

@Aaron_W - thank you for that.  I want variable speed and I see the need for the ability to handle larger stock/parts, etc.  I think that you are spot on.  I will wait until next year to buy my lathe.  At that point I hope to have the workshop space to accommodate one of these two units:

G0752Z 10" x 22" VS Benchtop Lathe with 2-Axis DRO or, most likely, a Precision Matthews PM-1030V-wQCTP-w/2axDRO

I rather not waste the money on something smaller that I might outgrow during my learning process.  Even if it means that my initial budget of 6-700.00 just went out the window for a future 3.6K purchase.  If financially feasible next year, that is the route that I will take.

Thank you all!!  Decision made.


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## DavidR8

I just braved the cold and measured my mini-lathe. From the face of the chuck to the tip of the dead centre it's 12.75". With a 1/2" drill chuck in the the tailstock it's 10" from the chuck to the face of the drill chuck. Add a drill bit for another 2"-3" and now you're at 7" to 8" of space. 
So the largest stock you could turn would be 12.75" long, Practically speaking I don't think that's realistic though.

As @Aaron_W wisely said you are likely better off saving your pennies till you can get the machine you want that will serve you best. Don't do what I did


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## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> @Aaron_W - thank you for that.  I want variable speed and I see the need for the ability to handle larger stock/parts, etc.  I think that you are spot on.  I will wait until next year to buy my lathe.  At that point I hope to have the workshop space to accommodate one of these two units:
> 
> G0752Z 10" x 22" VS Benchtop Lathe with 2-Axis DRO or, most likely, a Precision Matthews PM-1030V-wQCTP-w/2axDRO
> 
> I rather not waste the money on something smaller that I might outgrow during my learning process.  Even if it means that my initial budget of 6-700.00 just went out the window for a future 3.6K purchase.  If financially feasible next year, that is the route that I will take.
> 
> Thank you all!!  Decision made.



It took me 2 years to convince myself to buy exactly the same lathe that I thought I wanted to get from the beginning. I like to be sure.


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## wachuko

Just had to share... the funny (or ironic, depending on how you look at it) thing is that because I decided to wait until next year to get a better lathe... I decided to CNC my mill... well, I just added up what I have spent so far on the CNC conversion, and I could have bought the Grizzly G0602Z - 10" x 22" Benchtop Metal Lathe with DRO...

I never said I was smart...


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## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> Just had to share... the funny (or ironic, depending on how you look at it) thing is that because I decided to wait until next year to get a better lathe... I decided to CNC my mill... well, I just added up what I have spent so far on the CNC conversion, and I could have bought the Grizzly G0602Z - 10" x 22" Benchtop Metal Lathe with DRO...
> 
> I never said I was smart...



So something I recently discovered, apparently the common 10x22 and 10x30 lathes still use change gears, they do not have a true QC gear box for thread cutting.

Many older American lathes in the 9 and 10" class were available with a full QCGB, but it appears on small import lathes only the older (1980s) Jet 10x24PY has a full QCGB.

The Grizzly, Enco, Jet, Busy Bee etc 9x19 and 9x20 (same lathe just depends on who was measuring) lathes use a semi quick change gearbox allowing 9 threads to be cut on a given set of change gears. The Grizzly 10x22 uses a different limited gear box also giving 9 threads on a set of change gears. The PM / Weiss 10x22/30 has a 3 speed gearbox only allows 3 threads on a given set of change gears.

The PM/Weiss 10x22/30 does have a reversing lead screw allowing left hand threads. The 9x19 and Grizzly 10x22 don't (although there are plans out there on how to add a reversing gear for both). 

The PM/Weiss 10x22/30 has power feed on the carriage and crossslide, the 9x19 and Grizzly 10x22 only have power feed on the carriage.


As far as I know none of the 7" and 8" import lathes have any sort of QCGB so the 9x19 and 10x22s are not at any disadvantage here, but I had not seen anyone mention the need for change gears on these lathes before.

Just in case you were not confused enough.


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## DangerZone

But if you really want a rabbit hole to go down, start reading the electronic leadscrew threads. Looks like the best option if you don't have a really nice gear box, but appears to be quite the ordeal.


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## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> So something I recently discovered, apparently the common 10x22 and 10x30 lathes still use change gears, they do not have a true QC gear box for thread cutting.
> 
> Many older American lathes in the 9 and 10" class were available with a full QCGB, but it appears on small import lathes only the older (1980s) Jet 10x24PY has a full QCGB.
> 
> The Grizzly, Enco, Jet, Busy Bee etc 9x19 and 9x20 (same lathe just depends on who was measuring) lathes use a semi quick change gearbox allowing 9 threads to be cut on a given set of change gears. The Grizzly 10x22 uses a different limited gear box also giving 9 threads on a set of change gears. The PM / Weiss 10x22/30 has a 3 speed gearbox only allows 3 threads on a given set of change gears.
> 
> The PM/Weiss 10x22/30 does have a reversing lead screw allowing left hand threads. The 9x19 and Grizzly 10x22 don't (although there are plans out there on how to add a reversing gear for both).
> 
> The PM/Weiss 10x22/30 has power feed on the carriage and crossslide, the 9x19 and Grizzly 10x22 only have power feed on the carriage.
> 
> 
> As far as I know none of the 7" and 8" import lathes have any sort of QCGB so the 9x19 and 10x22s are not at any disadvantage here, but I had not seen anyone mention the need for change gears on these lathes before.
> 
> Just in case you were not confused enough.



I had decided to go with the Precision Matthews PM-1030V-wQCTP-w/2axDRO... would that be a good choice?

I only made the reference to the Grizzly G0602Z because, cost wise, I could have gotten that one and kept the G0704 mill all manual for now, for the same cost.

And yes... I am way passed confusion, hahahahahhahaha


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## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> I had decided to go with the Precision Matthews PM-1030V-wQCTP-w/2axDRO... would that be a good choice?
> 
> I only made the reference to the Grizzly G0602Z because, cost wise, I could have gotten that one and kept the G0704 mill all manual for now, for the same cost.
> 
> And yes... I am way passed confusion, hahahahahhahaha



The PM 1022/1030 lathes are fairly well regarded, I was just surprised at the lack of a QCGB and even more so that it hasn't been mentioned. If that is an issue depends on if it is an issue to you. Do you mind changing the change gears to change threads? 
The power cross feed is a nice feature, and missing on many import lathes at this size.

The only import lathes I have personally fondled were the Jet 1024 and 9x20 lathes, which have a QCGB and a sort of QCGB so I had just assumed the 10x22s had a QCGB since they had what looks to be one and I have never seen anybody mention their lack of one until I recently saw the Blondihacks video on buying an import lathe. 

She has a PM1022 so talks about it a bit in her video on things to consider when buying an import lathe. It is a pretty good video regardless of which one you decide to go with.


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## matthewsx

wachuko said:


> Just had to share... the funny (or ironic, depending on how you look at it) thing is that because I decided to wait until next year to get a better lathe... I decided to CNC my mill... well, I just added up what I have spent so far on the CNC conversion, and I could have bought the Grizzly G0602Z - 10" x 22" Benchtop Metal Lathe with DRO...
> 
> I never said I was smart...



Put a 4th axis on it and use that instead....

Honestly though, building my CNC was one of the best learning experiences I've had in the shop. I'm still really nowhere near done but the confidence I gained doing all the measuring, layout, fabrication, etc. has been fundamentally awesome.

I'd suggest tucking that $600-700 into your back pocket and keeping your eyes open for a good used lathe. If your new shop will have enough space go for a floor model rather than benchtop. sometimes opportunity just comes walking in the door and you need to greet it with open arms. 

Good luck with all your projects.

Cheers,

1ohn


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## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> The PM 1022/1030 lathes are fairly well regarded, I was just surprised at the lack of a QCGB and even more so that it hasn't been mentioned. If that is an issue depends on if it is an issue to you. Do you mind changing the change gears to change threads?
> The power cross feed is a nice feature, and missing on many import lathes at this size.
> 
> be one and I have never seen anybody mention their lack of one until I recently saw the Blondihacks video on buying an import lathe.
> 
> She has a PM1022 so talks about it a bit in her video on things to consider when buying an import lathe. It is a pretty good video regardless of which one you decide to go with.



Great video, thank you.


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## wachuko

matthewsx said:


> Put a 4th axis on it and use that instead....
> 
> Honestly though, building my CNC was one of the best learning experiences I've had in the shop. I'm still really nowhere near done but the confidence I gained doing all the measuring, layout, fabrication, etc. has been fundamentally awesome.
> 
> I'd suggest tucking that $600-700 into your back pocket and keeping your eyes open for a good used lathe. If your new shop will have enough space go for a floor model rather than benchtop. sometimes opportunity just comes walking in the door and you need to greet it with open arms.
> 
> Good luck with all your projects.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 1ohn




Reading on that....baby steps... first let me finish the 3 axis CNC conversion and learn how to use the software and all that...









						4 Axis CNC Machining: The Definitive Guide
					

This is my complete guide to 4 Axis CNC Machining in 2020. You’ll learn when to use one, how they work, 4 Axis CNC workholding, Programming, and 4 Axis for CNC Routers.




					www.cnccookbook.com


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## wachuko

It has been awhile since creating this thread looking for guidance.  Finally, if all goes well, I should be ordering the Precision Matthews PM-1030V-wQCTP-w/2axDRO in a month or two.



			https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1022v-pm-1030v/
		


Question that I have now, what else should I order with it?

This is what I have so far listed to order:

Precision Matthews PM-1030V-wQCTP-w/2axDRO
PM-1030V-STAND w/Storage
AXA Master Turning/Boring Tool Set
0-1/2 Ultra Precision Keyless Drill Chuck MT2

What else will be needed to get started?


Is a spare back plate needed? Spare Back Plate, 5" Diameter, for PM-1030V Lathes...
What cut off blade (parting tools) should I get?  PM does not have one to buy at the time of ordering the lathe, so I will need to get that from another place.
MT-2 Body Live Center - which one?  Slim or Heavy Duty?

I am watching the Lathe Skills videos from Blondihacks as well to get familiar with all this...



			https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLY67-4BrEae9Ad91LPRIhcLJM9fO-HJyN
		


Not having it match the rest of the green stuff from Grizzly will drive me nuts... so I will see at how I can paint the blue parts to green to match the rest of the tools I have.


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## wachuko

Let me start another thread... this one, I think, served its purpose...


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## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> It has been awhile since creating this thread looking for guidance.  Finally, if all goes well, I should be ordering the Precision Matthews PM-1030V-wQCTP-w/2axDRO in a month or two.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1022v-pm-1030v/
> 
> 
> 
> Question that I have now, what else should I order with it?
> 
> This is what I have so far listed to order:
> 
> Precision Matthews PM-1030V-wQCTP-w/2axDRO
> PM-1030V-STAND w/Storage
> AXA Master Turning/Boring Tool Set
> 0-1/2 Ultra Precision Keyless Drill Chuck MT2
> 
> What else will be needed to get started?
> 
> 
> Is a spare back plate needed? Spare Back Plate, 5" Diameter, for PM-1030V Lathes...
> What cut off blade (parting tools) should I get?  PM does not have one to buy at the time of ordering the lathe, so I will need to get that from another place.
> MT-2 Body Live Center - which one?  Slim or Heavy Duty?
> 
> I am watching the Lathe Skills videos from Blondihacks as well to get familiar with all this...
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLY67-4BrEae9Ad91LPRIhcLJM9fO-HJyN
> 
> 
> 
> *Not having it match the rest of the green stuff from Grizzly will drive me nuts... so I will see at how I can paint the blue parts to green to match the rest of the tools I have.*



Hey but it will kind of match your Eastwood welder, those are blue aren't they?

As to the other stuff I don't see a new thread so...

You will want a drill chuck, the one you listed seems fine. 
Drill chucks are common though so you might have a look around Albrecht and Rohm are well regarded brands and you might be able to find a used one at that price or less. I'm also not that concerned with keyless, I don't find a keyed chuck to be that big of a deal to use and the are usually cheaper. 

The tooling set would be handy. I'd suggest you also get some 3/8" and possibly a few 1/2" HSS tooling blanks. These smaller lathes work well with HSS cutters. There is a great thread on grinding blanks. Even if you find you prefer the using carbide, HSS is useful since you can make custom special purpose tools from them. 

It does come with centers, but likely a dead center in the tailstock. Either of those live centers would be fine, I could go either way if it were me, or you could get both as they are fairly cheap. MT2 live centers are also rather common, so you have lots of other options.

Spare backplate could be handy as it seems like they are not easy to find outside of PM. You may need one if you decide to add a different chuck, like an ER or 5C collet chuck.


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## wachuko

Thank you... have not started a new thread... I was looking for the PM specific section.  Does not look like there is one in the forum.  Well, at least I could not find it in the vendor section.

As you can see, I have been painting all my tools the same color... that is a plasma cutter that you see in the background... yup, took it apart and painted it to match as well.







Old, abandon, cheap vise I found... took it apart, cleaned, and got it working again.  It was rusting away outside.











I have not done the Eastwood TIG welder because I am going end up ordering one that can do aluminum.... Those come in black from Eastwood.  My brother already has his eyes set on mine... so I will be giving it to him in the coming months.


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## markba633csi

I like that shade, looks very "Christmassy"
-Mark


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