# Mislabeled Tap...



## boostin53 (Nov 2, 2016)

Well I just learned a lesson on taps. I went and purchased a single tap, 12mmx1.25, because all I had on hand was a 1.5 pitch. Read the package, and the actual tap twice to confirm. 

Cut my threads and go to assemble, doesn't fit. Checked the tap again, says 1.25. take a thread gauge to it, it shows me a 1.5 pitch. I guess that's what I get for buying a Irwin tap and not checking the pitch before hand. has this happened to anybody else?


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## Bob Korves (Nov 2, 2016)

Yes, but not with an Irwin tap.  That is always a possibility, the tools are made and then labeled in a different department, and there is a chance of it going into the wrong bin for labeling.  Check twice, cut once...

Once upon a time, QC would have been looking for that mistake.  That was then, this is now.  Irwin taps now come from China, where QC does not seem to be a part of tool making...

Edit:  Making a bad part is understandable.  Letting it get boxed and out the door is not!


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## RJSakowski (Nov 2, 2016)

I have always thought that Irwin made halfway decent tools.  I have not run into mislabeled taps but have seen mislabeled pin gages.  

I would suggest that you alert Irwin regarding the problem and emphasize that you ruined the work that you had so many hours invested in because of their error.  It will be a service to the rest of your fellow machinists and it just might get you a tap and die set as a thank you for reporting it.


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## CluelessNewB (Nov 2, 2016)

I believe QC is now considered the buyers job.


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## John Hasler (Nov 2, 2016)

RJSakowski said:


> I have always thought that Irwin made halfway decent tools.


Irwin doesn't make anything.  It's one of the properties of the marketing company Newell Brands.


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## boostin53 (Nov 2, 2016)

Just went to the same box store to get another one. Took a thread pitch gauge with me and checked the few 12mmx1.25 taps they had. Seems like the first one I purchased was the only wrong one. 

I will give Irwin a call and let them know. I don't expect them to give me anything for the troubles, but would like to make them aware of the problem.


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## boostin53 (Nov 2, 2016)

Well Bob was right on the money! I just got off the phone with Irwin. The guy was very understanding about being me being frustrated about the situation. I made it clear to him that I just wanted them to know about the problem. He insisted on sending me a tap and die set free of charge. I must say, great customer service and they apparently stand by their products.


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## Groundhog (Nov 2, 2016)

At least you got something for your woes. Most companies would have just replaced the single tap but as I understand it you got a whole set? Glad they reacted appropriately.


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## TOOLMASTER (Nov 2, 2016)

Had a mispressed record in the 70's..returned it right away....who knew they would sell for 1000s later

i use taps by sight so if they are mislabeled I would never know


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## boostin53 (Nov 2, 2016)

Groundhog said:


> At least you got something for your woes. Most companies would have just replaced the single tap but as I understand it you got a whole set? Glad they reacted appropriately.


Yes, the guy on the phone said he was sending out a full set. I will see what actually gets sent when it comes. Even if it's not a full set, I don't really care. I just wanted them to be aware.


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## kingmt01 (Nov 2, 2016)

That is also going to depend who is in the phone with you. Some CS are really understanding & want to help while others don't care.

QC isn't only a problem in China. I used to work at Toyota Motors WV & QC wasn't anything except BS. I don't have enough time to tell you all the stories. But I'll tell you that the number of those parts in question determines if they are acceptable or not & the amount of time it takes to build a part is more important then if it's fine correctly. Every part is looked at by a machine but they don't catch everything & if it catches to many problems then that check is bypassed & parts are sent around it.


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## bfd (Nov 3, 2016)

you seem to not want the set of taps. do you need an address to have it sent to? bill


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## boostin53 (Nov 3, 2016)

bfd said:


> you seem to not want the set of taps. do you need an address to have it sent to? bill


Not sure if sarcastic or not haha. But since they're sending me a set, I will for sure put it to use!


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## dontrinko (Nov 5, 2016)

I bought a new set of metric taps and dies, Brand new never used i can not read many of them and some have no labeling at all so when i need a metric die or tap I find a metric bolt or nut the size of the thread I need and run the die/tap into the nut/bolt to make sure i have the correct thread.   Don


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## bfd (Nov 5, 2016)

yes it was a joke and I do have a warped sense of humor I often crack myself up bill


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## visenfile (Nov 9, 2016)

I bought a large metric set from Enco a few years back which was a "flaming bargain."    I did find a die mis-stamped.  The Enco lady did not hesitate to send me a replacement .  The set is China sourced, and although I have not used all of them , others seem ok. Satisfaction from the set comes from the range of large sizes and priced about 1/4 of equivalent pedigree sets.   I will comment on another set of Harbor
Freight taps from China vs my trusted Japan set.  The Chinese set have a different "class" of threads cut into them, and I am very careful how I use them.


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## boostin53 (Nov 10, 2016)

Well the replacement got delivered today. Should I say replacements instead of replacement?! They ended up sending me a 75 piece tap and die set! Now that's good customer service.....ignore my daughters mess in the background


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## Christian Poulsen (Nov 10, 2016)

boostin53 said:


> Well I just learned a lesson on taps. I went and purchased a single tap, 12mmx1.25, because all I had on hand was a 1.5 pitch. Read the package, and the actual tap twice to confirm.
> 
> Cut my threads and go to assemble, doesn't fit. Checked the tap again, says 1.25. take a thread gauge to it, it shows me a 1.5 pitch. I guess that's what I get for buying a Irwin tap and not checking the pitch before hand. has this happened to anybody else?


No, not in 35 years...I remember getting a couple of batches of bad taps (they would only last (work) for less than half the holes as the same brand for the same material (I think they were 1/4-20, must have been a bad HT or something)...I got with our "stores" and the vendor and they got replaced lickety split.


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## Tony Wells (Nov 10, 2016)

I don't believe I've ever had a mismarked tap, die or other cutting tool. But then again now that most all are marked with a too fast, too weak laser, I can't read most of them without a magnifier, so I don't generally read the "fine print" such as class of fit of mfg logo, etc. I wish they were still marked the old fashioned way, but I understand the economics of the bottom line and realize they cost less to produce the way they are marked now. Out of the piles and piles I have on hand, there are some that are practically illegible even with magnification and good light. That I do find quite unacceptable. One should not have to resort to actually measuring the diameter and pitch of a tap or die (I use very, very few dies). I will say that the dies I have tend to be well marked for the most part, but probably because they are all (mostly) old.
Same applies to drill bits and end mills. They are a bit easier to verify should it be necessary, but drill bits, especially the larger sizes tend to be roll marked instead of stenciled or lasered so it doesn't usually present a problem. Of course, when you are disorganized like I am, it's quicker to shuffle through the drawers with a pair of calipers to find the bit I want. Then the problem is finding one that still has some life in it. End mills generally are fractional, and with a few exceptions most of what I have is disparate enough I select by eye. It's when I get to the 3/32, 15/32", that it gets worth it to get the calipers. I keep a 6" pair in the same rollaway I store the smaller cutting tools in so it's not a big deal to double check, and occasionally I catch myself picking up a wrong size on the drill bits. Taps and  larger bits aren't so hard to size by eye, but if I fear I have mixed Metric and SAE, I will double check. It's only really been in the last 10 years or so that I have begun to need Metric for any of my work, so there aren't many on hand. They have a couple of drawers of their own.


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## boostin53 (Nov 10, 2016)

Tony Wells said:


> I don't believe I've ever had a mismarked tap, die or other cutting tool. But then again now that most all are marked with a too fast, too weak laser, I can't read most of them without a magnifier, so I don't generally read the "fine print" such as class of fit of mfg logo, etc. I wish they were still marked the old fashioned way, but I understand the economics of the bottom line and realize they cost less to produce the way they are marked now. Out of the piles and piles I have on hand, there are some that are practically illegible even with magnification and good light. That I do find quite unacceptable. One should not have to resort to actually measuring the diameter and pitch of a tap or die (I use very, very few dies). I will say that the dies I have tend to be well marked for the most part, but probably because they are all (mostly) old.
> Same applies to drill bits and end mills. They are a bit easier to verify should it be necessary, but drill bits, especially the larger sizes tend to be roll marked instead of stenciled or lasered so it doesn't usually present a problem. Of course, when you are disorganized like I am, it's quicker to shuffle through the drawers with a pair of calipers to find the bit I want. Then the problem is finding one that still has some life in it. End mills generally are fractional, and with a few exceptions most of what I have is disparate enough I select by eye. It's when I get to the 3/32, 15/32", that it gets worth it to get the calipers. I keep a 6" pair in the same rollaway I store the smaller cutting tools in so it's not a big deal to double check, and occasionally I catch myself picking up a wrong size on the drill bits. Taps and  larger bits aren't so hard to size by eye, but if I fear I have mixed Metric and SAE, I will double check. It's only really been in the last 10 years or so that I have begun to need Metric for any of my work, so there aren't many on hand. They have a couple of drawers of their own.



Don't get me wrong, I'm only 28 years young and don't have anywhere near the amount for time doing these things as most of you. But even I have never had a problem with a tap being mismarked. The laser etching on the tap is very clear and it said 1.25 for thread pitch, so did the package. Thread gages disagree with what the tap said haha


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## Tony Wells (Nov 10, 2016)

Oh, I wasn't doubting you, boostin.....just making a comment. It's bound to happen nowadays with the poor level of QC in some places.


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## kd4gij (Nov 10, 2016)

Where I used to work They had a set of Craftsman made in USA metric taps. The m6 and m8 taps where an odd size with SAE thread pitch.


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## boostin53 (Nov 10, 2016)

Tony Wells said:


> Oh, I wasn't doubting you, boostin.....just making a comment. It's bound to happen nowadays with the poor level of QC in some places.



I didn't think you were doubting me. I was also just making a comment. But just for fun, look at how clearly the tap was marked.


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## Christian Poulsen (Nov 10, 2016)

....that's nice printing! I wouldn't even need my 7x visors (which have grown to my head) to read that.


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## boostin53 (Nov 10, 2016)

Christian Poulsen said:


> ....that's nice printing! I wouldn't even need my 7x visors (which have grown to my head) to read that.


I know right! I'm actually amazed at how easily that can be read. My other taps aren't as clear as this. The set Irwin sent me is also this easy to read.


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## Tony Wells (Nov 10, 2016)

Yep, nice and clear.....and wrong!


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## Christian Poulsen (Nov 11, 2016)

Tony Wells said:


> Oh, I wasn't doubting you, boostin.....just making a comment. It's bound to happen nowadays with the poor level of QC in some places.


Oh, Oh...This reminds me (Hey! I heard that!)...We're restoring an old 1960's boat and trailer...The trailer wheel hubs have 1/2-20 studs...I bought new lug nuts from a local auto parts store (It's hard to find them not made overseas unless you order them from Fastenal or?)...The new nuts only went on about a thread and a half...I ran a chaser nut over the studs and it went on fine (only taking little cuts of grime)...still the new nuts wouldn't go on...I ran a tap through the new nuts and sure enough, it took pretty good cuts of steel (plus the cuts were a little "off" (looking by eyeball) (at least the steel was pretty tough lol)...
...Maybe sometimes it's when U.S. makes Metric and Foreign makes USS and SAE? (Nah, and regardless if so...I agree...Its QC sometimes.
...Add: I can't remember, off hand, how many or which sizes and pitches (8's? 10's?)...but there are a couple, I remember, that Metric and SAE (and/or USS) are pretty close (Close enough to actually use (although not right and to spec/class)...
...Just sayin'


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