# Atlas Craftsman lathe headstock removal



## ARC-170 (Dec 21, 2020)

I have a lathe from which I want to remove the headstock. I'm having a hard time finding out if this is a bad thing. My internet searches turned up the posts below, in addition to my lathe restoration thread on this site. Everything else seemed to be referencing the spindle and not the headstock alignment itself.

This YouTube video (



) has mostly spindle instructions, but from 9:40 to 10:25 is a sped-up headstock install. No mention of alignment.

Tubalcain has one as well: Shop Tips #236. At about 1:38 he mentions that it's aligned with the headstock by being located between the ways. No mention of alignment issues. The rest is about the spindle, etc.

My restoration post on page 10, #91, question #25 asks about it. Here is the response (from our own Robert!) for reference:

_25. I have never actually done a headstock removal but I did sell the 54" bed off of a Craftsman Commercial to someone who wanted to convert his 12 x 24 to a 12 x 36 and he had no particular issue with removing the headstock. So it wan't a press fit. Beyond that, I don't know how tightly they fit between the ways. I would suggest not removing the headstock casting unless there is some good reason to do so. If you do remove it, I would have a pair of studs or 2" to 3" long lengths of All-Thread to screw into the two positioning screw holes to set the left-right position. If, after fully seating the casting between the ways, the studs are not free turning in the tapped holes, move the casting left or right until they are. Then remove them and immediately install the two screws. You will have to reassemble the headstock before you can use any method that I know of to check the angular alignment. _

Here is the results of a Google search:

_Besides the clamp (similar to the one under the tailstock) that everyone knows about, there are two small alignment bolts under the left end of the headstock. They are well hidden but have to be removed  along with the main clamp, and reinstalled before you install the clamp.  They were not shown on most of the Atlas illustrated parts lists.  I added them to a couple of lists but not I think all of them.  Their purpose is only to locate the headstock longitudinally on the bed.

Robert Downs

You should be able to see shims if any under the
headstock. Take a picture for reference so it gets
reassembled the way it was. Upon reassembly you'll need to
set it up all over again anyway to make sure you're not
turning a taper._

The response to the above post:_
I have never heard of shims under the headstock. It is an
interference fit between the inner surface of the ways and
is held by a clamp plate from underneath. Other than
getting a socket wrench down between the ways, it is easy to
remove and reinstall. You just want to make sure the bottom
of the headstock and mating surface of the ways are VERY
clean before reinstalling. On some lathes, the position
along the ways is not keyed or pinned in any way, so you
want to make sure you get it back in the same position, so
the leadscrew mount and pulleys line up with where they go.

Jon Elson_

In my restoration thread, I noted that I took it off and there was little or no play front to back.

Also, I remember finding another post on another site and someone told the poster that it wasn't a good idea, but they'd never done it. The poster did it anyway and sold the machine before testing the alignment.

This post talks about alignment using various methods. Seems indicating across the faceplate would be a good start, but the ways need to be untwisted.

I found a 500+ page document  that has a series of emails about headstock alignment. Seems that bed twist is usually the culprit, along with dirty mating surfaces. I copied and pasted the relevant posts in a Word doc and attached it.

*So, IS this an issue? Anyone ever removed and reinstalled the headstock? Did you have any issues with it being misaligned?*  I'm asking because I'm going to sell the lathe after I take it apart and clean and paint it so I won't have a chance to bolt it down and check the alignment. I can tell the next owner to do it, and they would be wise to do it anyway, but I want to make sure. I'm guessing the dearth of information means it's not a big deal, and what little I did find seems to indicate that any misalignment is caused by dirty mating surfaces or a twisted bed, but I could be wrong.


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## tq60 (Dec 21, 2020)

The atlas craftsman units were made fast and cheap, like model t.

No scraping in of parts so should be little issue.

Clean all crud off and remove loose parts.

Carefully separate and look for any shims and you should be good.

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## ARC-170 (Dec 21, 2020)

tq60 said:


> The atlas craftsman units were made fast and cheap, like model t.
> 
> No scraping in of parts so should be little issue.
> 
> ...



Do you speak from experience? Just curious if you've done it to an Atlas Craftsman. Did you find any shims?


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## Nutfarmer (Dec 22, 2020)

I wouldn't remove the head stock unless there was a good reason to. Such as to change the head stock from plain bearings to roller bearing. If it's just to clean or paint leave it on. Sometimes you can be lucky and the head stock will line back up with the ways sometimes not. It can be a lot of work to align a head stock of its out. The atlas is simple in its design , but why open a can of worms if it's not necessary.


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## tq60 (Dec 22, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> Do you speak from experience? Just curious if you've done it to an Atlas Craftsman. Did you find any shims?


Yes, several, 25 years ago so memory not so good.

No issues with it, we found better ones and moved on.



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## ARC-170 (Dec 22, 2020)

tq60 said:


> Yes, several, 25 years ago so memory not so good.
> 
> No issues with it, we found better ones and moved on.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk



Thanks. When you say you found better ones, what are you referring to? Better lathes? Better headstocks? Just curious.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 22, 2020)

I called Clausing Industrial. I've read that they have experts there that know the older machines. I talked to Tom who seemed somewhat familiar with the 101 series machines. He told me that the head can be taken off, but it "could be" (not that it was) a pain to realign. He said to make sure the bed isn't twisted and the head can be moved left and right if needed. He told me that all the people that knew about the 101's are long gone. He wasn't sure if they used some sort of jig/fixture when installing the heads at the factory to make sure they went on true, or if they were designed/machined in such a way as to be aligned. He also didn't know about shims or if they were tested before leaving the factory. He said anyone using these older machines needs to understand that they are older and will need some adjustments. He thought using a DTI across a faceplate was a good idea, but the bed needs to be level (no twist). Newer machines have means for headstock alignment.

Not exactly a resounding "yes, take it off, no problem!" to my questions, but not a "no, don't touch it or baby seals will die", either.

I think the takeaway from this is that anyone buying a lathe will want to get it leveled and untwisted, then adjust as needed.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Dec 22, 2020)

it would be a good idea to have a (MT3?) test bar and a nice clean spindle taper before you take it off. I took my 618 headstock off and realigned it with a test bar, but I think it's slightly off, so I got a MT2 reamer to clean up the taper and will repeat. I know that it's off as I'm turning a taper. It's a pain to get done as the head stock bolts are underneath the bed, so the headstock has to be hanging off the bench to tighten them up. Then as you tighten the bolts the headstock moves. The fact that I've been putting it off for so long speaks to how little I want to do it, but I have to do it before I do some longer work.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 22, 2020)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> it would be a good idea to have a (MT3?) test bar and a nice clean spindle taper before you take it off. I took my 618 headstock off and realigned it with a test bar, but I think it's slightly off, so I got a MT2 reamer to clean up the taper and will repeat. I know that it's off as I'm turning a taper. It's a pain to get done as the head stock bolts are underneath the bed, so the headstock has to be hanging off the bench to tighten them up. Then as you tighten the bolts the headstock moves. The fact that I've been putting it off for so long speaks to how little I want to do it, but I have to do it before I do some longer work.



When you took the headstock off, was there any play in it at all? In other words, was it fitted between the ways really tight, or was there a little wiggle room? Hope that makes sense. When I took the headstock off the 101.07403, it was fitted really tight; there was no wiggle at all. I think I had to tap it off with a hammer to loosen it.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Dec 22, 2020)

mine wasn't so tight it needed tapping out, I seem to remember it fitted pretty snugly. I did file down some burrs and take a little bit off the bed to allow me to adjust it, but given the outcome I probably made it worse. I did deburr the spindle taper with a round file and a blued up dead center, but I think that there was still a small burr in there that threw me off.

I don't seem to remember the headstock on a Craftsman 6" being hard to get off either, though I didn't do anything special when I put it back on, just plopped it in and bolted it back up. Sometimes I think my increasing metrological knowledge/ skills are not always a good thing


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## Moderatemixed (Dec 22, 2020)

I’ve restored 4 Atlas 10F lathes and removed the headstock on every one of them. They fit very well with virtually no perceived motion “out” of alignment. I also have never found a shim under the headstock, as they sit directly on the ways and there is virtually no way of retaining a shim; you’ll understand once you get it apart. They clean up well and go back together nicely, and will align with no effort. Cheers. 

Derek


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## ARC-170 (Dec 22, 2020)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> mine wasn't so tight it needed tapping out, I seem to remember it fitted pretty snugly. I did file down some burrs and take a little bit off the bed to allow me to adjust it, but given the outcome I probably made it worse. I did deburr the spindle taper with a round file and a blued up dead center, but I think that there was still a small burr in there that threw me off.
> 
> I don't seem to remember the headstock on a Craftsman 6" being hard to get off either, though I didn't do anything special when I put it back on, just plopped it in and bolted it back up. Sometimes I think my increasing metrological knowledge/ skills are not always a good thing



There's a message chain in the Word doc I attached about someone getting the ways scraped and deburring and having issues with realignment. Seems odd that taking a burr off would misalign the headstock. Use Ctrl F and type headstock and you should find it; it's about halfway in the 500 page document, but I think I just copy and pasted the relevant passages into the Word doc.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 22, 2020)

Moderatemixed said:


> I’ve restored 4 Atlas 10F lathes and removed the headstock on every one of them. They fit very well with virtually no perceived motion “out” of alignment. I also have never found a shim under the headstock, as they sit directly on the ways and there is virtually no way of retaining a shim; you’ll understand once you get it apart. They clean up well and go back together nicely, and will align with no effort. Cheers.
> 
> Derek
> 
> ...



Awesome, thanks. I want to hear from those who've actually done it!


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