# What size vise



## Abody711 (Oct 24, 2020)

Picking up my pm-30mv mill Monday. The mill has a 8x33 table. Being new to milling, I do not know what size vise would work best. Any guidance would be appreciated.


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## addertooth (Oct 24, 2020)

The size of the vice is dictated by two factors:
1. What is the Vertical Spindle to Table Clearance. (how much room is free to have a bit or a tool between the spindle and the vice, your vertical workspace).
and
2. How long of a vice can you put on the table without it sticking out the back side (and interfering with Y travel towards the Column, AND without it sticking out too far forward and interfere with the Wheel that adjusts your Y position.

You are in luck, Precision Matthews usually lists optional Vices (which they believe may fit for you on that model of Mill).
On the PM-30mv, they show four and five inch vices, to include with the swivel base... so those sizes are probably a safe choice.

The length of the table is important (33 inches in your case), but how far it can travel is also important to determine how long of a cut you can do (23 inches in your case). The length of the X axis travel is normally not a decision factor in a vice.


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## RJSakowski (Oct 24, 2020)

My Tormach 770 has an 8 x 30 table and I use a 4" vise.  A 5" vise would have been too big.  But it really depends on your T slot configuration.  The 770 has 3 slots and the vise overhangs the back of the table by about an inch if I use the center slot.  If I use the first or third slots, it would seriously compromise my useful y axis travel.  My fixed jaw is about 2-1/4" in back of the mounting tabs.  The y axis travel extends about 1-1/2" beyond that to the back and 5-3/4" to the front of the fixed jaw.

A 5" vise would be too big IMO.  The back of the vise would overhang the table to the extent that it would interfere with the column.

With four slots on my RF30 clone, I could probably use a 5" vise in the second slot.  For either, a 6" vise would be too large. 

It would help to know the location of the slots on your table and to compare with the dimensions of a prospective vise.  In particular, the distance from the mounting tab to the back of the vise and the distance from the mounting tab to the fixed jaw.


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## Abody711 (Oct 24, 2020)

Thanks for the information


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## addertooth (Oct 24, 2020)

Worth a thousand words....
The Mill pictured is a PM-728-VT, which is (dimensionally) just slightly smaller than yours. 
The Vice is a Five inch model with the swivel base installed.  The swivel base adds about one inch of height. 

First picture is with the vice mounted on the center channel. Vice has one inch of overhang off the back side of the table.
Second picture is the vice mounted on the channel nearest the operator.  Lots of space between the back of the vice and the back of the table.
Third picture is the vice mounted diagonally between the first and second channel. The back of vice is flush with the back of the table.
Fourth picture shows about 10 inches of clearance between the bottom of the spindle and the top of the vice which has a rotating base as well.

I will be adding a DRO to this mill.  The X-Scale will be on the back side of the Table.  This means I will likely be losing 3/4 inch of rearward Y-travel to the sensor.   I may give up an additional 1/4 inch of Y-travel and mount the vice on the center T-Slot.  This will act to protect the sensor will be protected from being crushed or bumped out of alignment if I move the Y-Axis too far to the rearward limit. (Always think of ALL your objectives when you are determining the "penalty" of adding an item, and it's placement).


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## addertooth (Oct 24, 2020)

There are space penalties associated with a larger vice, but....
With a lighter Mill (370 pounds stripped), adding a heavier vice (around 50 pounds), enhances stability of the workpiece, and can reduce any issues with chatter.  Besides the weight of the vice, the table weight will be increased via an optional electric X-Feed as well.  Mass can be your dearest friend with some cuts.


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## Weldingrod1 (Oct 24, 2020)

If you have a rear coolant channel that hangs out, consider sawing it off and plugging the channel ends with epoxy. A huge improvement on my 4" Vice's fit on my Rockwell!

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Abody711 (Oct 25, 2020)

Guess I will wait till I setup my machine to determine the best size. I bought the model with dro so that question will already be answered.


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## Abody711 (Oct 25, 2020)

Anyone know the specs on Dayton 4cpe9. Can not find details online. Wonder about clamping base and rear overhang on base.


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## mikey (Oct 26, 2020)

With an 8" table, I would go with a 4" vise. As mentioned, interference with Y-travel is the key concern. Overhang in front is another one. My RF-31 has an 8x28 table and the 4" is a perfect fit.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 26, 2020)

+1 on a 4" vise on that mill. Larger and it can impact Y-axis travel, hang over the Y-crank. Wider almost always equals taller also and Z-axis height is not to be given up lightly.


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## Chewy (Oct 26, 2020)

I use a 4" Kurt D-40 on a PM -30MV. I am keeping my eyes open for a 5" vise. but it will only be an add on when the 4" jaws don't open enough.  The D-40 pretty much takes up the entire table and Y movement.


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## Mitch Alsup (Oct 28, 2020)

I have an 8×30 table on my G0730.
I have a 4" vise on a 10" rotary table. 
If anything the proper sized vise would be 5" for the G0730 scale machine.


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## sycle1 (Oct 28, 2020)

IMG-0306.jpg



__ sycle1
__ Oct 27, 2020



						First Chips
					



mine is a similar mill to yours in size.
I went with the 4 inch as everything else looked like overkill and I took off the rotary part of the vice as I didn't need it straight away.


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## Tim9 (Oct 29, 2020)

Totally agree...Get a  4” vise. I was clueless when I first got into this hobby and being the tool junkie I am.... I first bought a 5” vise for my RF-45. Because bigger is better...right. (Wrong! )
After using the 5” for a few months... I ordered a Shars basic 4” and it’s just the right size in my opinion.
   On a side note... after using the Shars vise for about a year I just felt it had too much flex.
Then...I  Bought a used Kurt 4” from EBay and the difference in rigidity is quite noticeable. I now using the Kurt on my Millrite and it’s just the right size in my opinion.  I wish I would have just listened to the many experienced machinist who recommended Kurt from the get go. The difference is like night and day. Upon further investigations.... check the total weight of any copies to the angle lock types of vises. Kurt is usually heavier.  And FWIW... Ridgidity matters with mill vises.


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## Investigator (Oct 29, 2020)

Pics help me.  This is my RF30 with an 8x29 table.  It is my 4 Inch vice.


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## Abody711 (Oct 30, 2020)

Purchase a 4in Chinese vise with swivel base. There is no alignment mark to match up with the degrees you want. How do you determine where the alignment goes?


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## Mitch Alsup (Oct 30, 2020)

Abody711 said:


> Purchase a 4in Chinese vise with swivel base. There is no alignment mark to match up with the degrees you want. How do you determine where the alignment goes?



You place the vise and swivel table on your milling table,
You then use dial indicator to tram the vise square,
You then look at the index mark on the swivel table and make a mark to calibrate rotation angle.
.....the mark should NOT be permanent since every time you put the vise on the table it may be a bit off in tram.
.....adjust the mark every time you tram the vise.

In practice, though, the swivel part is used so infrequently, I quit using mine and just put the vise on a real rotary table.
Also note: when dialing in 45º, 30º, and 60º, use precision triangles and tram on the triangle face for higher precision.


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## Abody711 (Nov 1, 2020)

Well she is in place. Need to clear out around her. Bought a new Chineses 4in vise and a used phase ii 6in rotary table. If you trams the vise’s inside face or the rear jaw. The set a mark to location of zero degrees. Why would the procedure not be reputable to line up the mark with zero?


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