# Restoration Of A Lathe Of Unknown Brand  ( Completed)



## matas (Jun 14, 2014)

I got a lathe of unknown brand for some shelves I did in a shed of my friends' parents. His grandfather died 15 years ago, and who knows when was the last time he used it. 
The lathe is most similar to Atlas 618, but its most probably of Yugoslavian, German or Russian make. Unlike Atlas, you have to engage the bull gear with the spindle to make it work, and disengage to use the backgears (I think).
To say the lathe was in bad condition would be charming understatement. 
Rust all around, seized motor, banged up, old grease with embedded metal shavings, concrete splatters ?!, V belt was in tatters, etc. The parts that were lubricated properly, worked properly (spindle, crosslide, tailstock).




You are invited to travel with this newbie as I embark on a quest to make this lathe usable and learn new and exciting stuff.
I have to say I've never done anything like this, but I was willing and eager to give it a try.
That being said, I will have a few questions along the way, and I hope you experienced people will be able to help me.

P.S.
Don't mind the bucket-o'-socks, as I don't have a proper workshop (or any kind of workshop for that matter), I'm doing the most of the cleaning in my bedroom (yikes, I know). The parts that i have to clean with gasoline, I clean on my balcony. 

Also, some of the steps are missing, as I found this forum after I already disassembled most of it.

------------------------
First I removed everything i could without tools and armed with an old bed sheet and a can of WD-40 i started removing the grease from the parts that I could reach.




You can see a difference right away 
The motor was in really poor condition, with seized bearings. I gave it to a friend who's father managed to make it work.
This is a picture i took for the sake of wiring, but you can see the state the motor is in.




When trying to remove the head-stock I came to an unforeseen problem, not a single tube key I have, had thin enough walls to enter the mounting holes.
So another friend's father turned his socket wrench on his lathe to a proper diameter.



The polishing and removing rust usually takes place when i get back from work, around midnight. Much elbow grease goes into this and this are the first result 




Hammerite had these colors available, so I decided I will paint the machine green with hammered effect. Hopefully it will turn out right 



This is it for now, I'll keep you posted as I progress further.


----------



## 12bolts (Jun 14, 2014)

*Re: Restauration of a lathe of unknown brand*

Good luck. Thats a pretty big chuck you got there

Cheers Phil


----------



## matas (Jun 14, 2014)

*Re: Restauration of a lathe of unknown brand*

Freshly killed, I mean... cleaned....




BTW, what kind of lubrication would you guys recommend for the chuck? I was thinking along the line of PTFE for everything (chuck, spindle, leadscrews),  what do you guys think?

BTW, as you can see on the picture, this chuck is 3 jaw, 11cm (4,3 inches) with 4 mounting holes on the back place and reverse chuck key. Anybody seen something like that? All the chucks I came across on the internet with 4 screws were 4 jaws, and I havent seen a single one with reverse type key.

Also, the dead center taper is MT1, or so I gathered from the info on the net. The quill(next to dead center) has heavy damage on the outside and on the inside.


----------



## rafe (Jun 14, 2014)

*Re: Restauration of a lathe of unknown brand*

Looks like you are making great progress with your lathe. I'm sure your hard work will be worth the machine you end up with ! Regards


----------



## GarageGuy (Jun 15, 2014)

*Re: Restauration of a lathe of unknown brand*

Your project looks great!  A couple of things:

1). NEVER use gasoline as a solvent.  EVER!  Use something safer like kerosene that works just as well but isn't nearly as volatile.  If you throw a lit match into a pan of kerosene, it goes out.  If you create a small static spark anywhere around gasoline, it goes WHOMP!  Very dangerous.

2). I like good old fashioned non-detergent motor oil as a lubricant.  On freshly cleaned metal, a thin film will prevent rust for quite awhile.

Keep up the good work, your lathe is going to be very nice!

GG


----------



## tertiaryjim (Jun 15, 2014)

*Re: Restauration of a lathe of unknown brand*

Those chucks need a high pressure lubricant. 
Not all PTFE greases will work.
I think a high quality graphite grease would work well because the cast is porous and the parts have a slow surface speed when operated.
I've also used the common lithium based greases with no problems.
The jaws must be removed and cleaned as well as the scrolls fairly often, depending on use and type of material machined, so the good quality but lesser expensive stuff is a better choice.

Nice to see your progress.


----------



## matas (Jun 16, 2014)

*Re: Restauration of a lathe of unknown brand*

I've hit a snag, trying to remove bronze bushings from headstock. I want to remove them to clean up old grease and to not damage them when i'm removing old paint.

They are slit, and have threads on both protruding sides. I've keept the headstock in the fridge over night, but all i've managed to do with it is get the locknuts off of them. I've sprayed them with WD40.

The fact is, i don't know if they're threaded into the headstock or are the threads only for locknuts. I've measured threads on both sides, and i don't think the bushings are tapered. There is no setscrew for them anywhere on the headstock. 

Any ideas?


----------



## stevejw (Jun 16, 2014)

*Re: Restauration of a lathe of unknown brand*



matas said:


> I've hit a snag, trying to remove bronze bushings from headstock. I want to remove them to clean up old grease and to not damage them when i'm removing old paint.
> 
> They are slit, and have threads on both protruding sides. I've keept the headstock in the fridge over night, but all i've managed to do with it is get the locknuts off of them. I've sprayed them with WD40.
> 
> ...


I think you will find they are tapered bushes .You should be able to work out which side is the larger & put the lock nut back on that side & use it to pull the bush out .Should only need to start to move then it will fall out .


----------



## matas (Jun 17, 2014)

Thanks, I will try that.
I've noticed a recess around one side of the bushings, i presume that's the side they're supposed to go out. 
Will try the locknut technique


----------



## mattthemuppet2 (Jun 17, 2014)

Great find and it looks like you're making good progress. Personally, unless you absolutely have to remove the spindle bushings I would leave them in place. The risk of screening something up (damaging them, messing up the spindle alignment etc) is a lot higher than the benefit of cleaning them out of the headstock.


----------



## matas (Jun 19, 2014)

Just a quick update:
The bushings are out using the locknut technique. Thank you, stevejw! 
There a little tongue, making sure the slot is always turned upward toward oiling hole. Also, looks like someone was boring through the oil hole, and hit the bushing...retards...

Also, I took on cleaning of the composite slide, cross slide, saddle and ways. All but the ways turned out ok, but the ways are too heavily damaged by rust. I guess i'll have to go the electrolysis way :/

As you will see the tool clamp is something ancient, I'm considering buying a QCTP, cause this one is ridiculous. Also, the non-machined parts of the cross-slide were painted with some devilish color that doesn't want to come off. I even tried wire brush. Should i just paint over it, or should i use a hand-held grinder with emery-paper? I'm afraid i don't damage the machined parts :/

There's an angle protractor on the cross slide, but there is no notch on the composite slide to align it with

I'm still left with cleaning tail stock and an apron, but that will have to wait until i get back from vacation.
Btw, there is a taper in the spindle, i can't discern if its original or if someone was playing with it... the finish by no means smooth... what do you guys think?

Here are some pictures.


----------



## Marco Bernardini (Jun 19, 2014)

The tool clamp handle is a bit bent, too.
Excess of testosterone by the previous users? :biggrin:


----------



## george wilson (Jun 20, 2014)

The tool clamp is typical of the type used on several English lathes,like Myfords and old Drummonds. You may find that the centers are too low on this lathe to permit use of a QCTP. This is because the slide is tall enough that the cutters are supposed to rest right on the compound,or slightly shimmed up.


----------



## matas (Jun 20, 2014)

george wilson said:


> The tool clamp is typical of the type used on several English lathes,like Myfords and old Drummonds. You may find that the centers are too low on this lathe to permit use of a QCTP. This is because the slide is tall enough that the cutters are supposed to rest right on the compound,or slightly shimmed up.



Thank you for that information, I will most certainly look into that. Does that mean I'm condemned to use this, or is there some other solution?


----------



## Marco Bernardini (Jun 20, 2014)

As usual George is a great source of knowledge!
The Myford ML7 has a tool clamp like yours, but there are also photos of it with a more normal QCTP (even if if seems a bit lower than the usual):
http://www.lathes.co.uk/myford-ml7/index.html


----------



## mattthemuppet2 (Jun 20, 2014)

I'd just try the current tool post as is for a while and see how you get on with it. QCTPs are convenient for sure, but it's not like you'll be making a living off this lathe 

As for the paint, I've heard that electrolysis is very effective for removing stubborn paint. Might be worth a try, especially if you need to do the bed too.


----------



## matas (Jun 22, 2014)

Maybe the way to go is tangential tool holder? Though they're pretty pricy....

Also, this looks pretty interesting...
http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/ToolHolders.html

especially round qctp and toolholders and also retracting toolholder for thread making


----------



## matas (Jul 4, 2014)

Well, here I am again, and I've hit another snag.
This is the last part of the lathe that is connected to another part. And i don't know how to remove it 





Its heavily rusted, has a hole on one side, I tried hitting it with a punch but it didn't budge.... i tried filing off the nipple on the other side, but it looks like there is no pin there at all ?!

Btw, I think this might be some sort of a Fischer lathe, because of certain similarities it has with some of the lathes on this page like knobs and the nuts of the knobs. http://www.lathes.co.uk/fischer/




Anyways, since I couldn't do what I wanted, I did what I could.
I've made a bath for electrolysis out of particleboard and put in double layer of thick nylon sheets for waterproofing.



I'm going to run it on old computer PSU that I modified.




The only thing I'm missing now is a sacrificial electrode, I'm thinking 0.8 or 1mm sheet metal on both long sides and on the bottom. Tell me what you guys think.

That's it for now, I'll keep you posted 

P.S.
This is what my lathe looks now  Don't worry, I know where each and every screw goes (I can dismantle and reassemble a laptop, without spare parts  )


----------



## Marco Bernardini (Jul 4, 2014)

matas said:


> Well, here I am again, and I've hit another snag.
> This is the last part of the lathe that is connected to another part. And i don't know how to remove it
> Its heavily rusted, has a hole on one side, I tried hitting it with a punch but it didn't budge.... i tried filing off the nipple on the other side, but it looks like there is no pin there at all ?!



Maybe the electrolysis bath will allow the pin to move a bit.
If you want to try the mythical Evaporust this Italian eBay shop has it: http://www.ebay.it/itm/271434081548 - there are no indications about international shipping, but you can contact the seller about that.
To see if that pin is a set screw without any slot you can also try to use a punch near the edge, to rotate it.


----------



## thomas s (Jul 4, 2014)

Nice job on the rebuild so far. I would the tool holder you have for now


----------



## British Steel (Jul 4, 2014)

Electrolysis is an excellent way to remove rust and paint, just be wary of its effects on non-ferrous metals, can eat into them!
For the anode I've had good results using carbon rods (I use arc gouging electrodes with all but an inch of the copper cladding (to solder wires to) removed using acid, they don't crud up like steel and the electrolyte stays a lot cleaner and more pleasant to have around 
Whatever you do use, DON'T use.stainless, the yellow colour it causes in the tank is hexavalent chromium, carcinogenic, neurotoxic, liver-toxic and (legally) has to be disposed of by a licenced toxic waste handler...


----------



## 12bolts (Jul 4, 2014)

Matas,
Nice progress.
The taper in your spindle is most likely factory, you will probably find that its a #1 to match your dead centre and you may have a #2 taper in your tailstock.
Plus 1 for using the electrolysis bath to remove your stubborn paint.
In your stuck handle you may find that it was held on originally by that small discoloured "bush" in the centre of the handle. Usually they are just a small nut with a screw slot to tighten them, but I dont see the slot? In any case it looks to me that someone has pinned that handle from the side. Because its not a through hole it may be a broken off screw. You might need to drill it out.
Any old plain steel works good for electro baths, just some thin strap is all I use. Make sure your electrical connections are out of the solution.

Cheers Phil


----------



## matas (Jul 5, 2014)

well my experiment with particle board utterly failed... i managed to puncture through both sheets of tough nylon with an edge of iron plate and that made waterproofing a bust...

so, this is current setup, because i didn't buy a bucket :/


----------



## Marco Bernardini (Jul 5, 2014)

matas said:


> well my experiment with particle board utterly failed... i managed to puncture through both sheets of tough nylon with an edge of iron plate and that made waterproofing a bust...
> 
> so, this is current setup, because i didn't buy a bucket :/



Take a piece of PVC pipe long and wide enough to keep you pieces, and two caps for it, then cut the top (hacksaw or angle grinder) and you'll have a perfect electrolysis pool… which can be converted into a nice flower pot after the use :biggrin:

If you plant hortensias, they love iron salts, so there is not even the need to clean the pipe :lmao:


----------



## matas (Jul 7, 2014)

A bit of update.... after 12 hours in the dip 

the bucket full of gunk



the paint is mega-stubborn



i had more success removing the paint after the dip with the cloth than with the scotch-brite type pad (both on the picture)

btw, I have some parts that have brass parts that i cant take out... like cross-slide nut, tailstock lock, etc... should i put those in the dip, or is it no way hose ?


----------



## GarageGuy (Jul 7, 2014)

As British Steel mentioned earlier in the thread, I would not put any non-ferrous metal in your electrolysis tank.  I don't think brass would fare well mixed with iron or steel in a tank of electrolyte.

GG


----------



## stupoty (Jul 8, 2014)

mattthemuppet said:


> I'd just try the current tool post as is for a while and see how you get on with it. QCTPs are convenient for sure, but it's not like you'll be making a living off this lathe
> 
> As for the paint, I've heard that electrolysis is very effective for removing stubborn paint. Might be worth a try, especially if you need to do the bed too.



I much prefer this style of tool post over a 4 way post..

i tend to leave the shimms stored with a tool once ive worked out the centre hight for it, makes it quite quick to pop them back in at the correct height. 

Stuart


----------



## matas (Sep 5, 2014)

First of all, sorry for not posting my progress sooner, I've been on vacation, and when I came back, all hell broke lose.

To get to the business, these are the results of electrolysis



each part was submerged for 3 days, with once a day cleanup with high pressure hot shower.
as you can see the body is not fully clean of paint, but after six days of electrolysis and high powered car washer treatment, this is the paint that didn't budge. So i decided I'll let it stay.

Brush wheel has not been used at all. I already started masking of the parts for painting, when I realized I should put some status update here.

I'll post an update after I finish painting the parts. Unfortunately, the weather is crap right now, and I have to hand paint all of these, so it might take a while.


----------



## Round in circles (Sep 6, 2014)

Those threaded split bushes in your post number seven 

 Those little hexagonal screws down the hole are perhaps not just for lubrication, it could also be meant to spread the bush when it is nipped tight down on the  bush  So take care to put them back exactly as they came out ..

The tool clamp does indeed look like a Myford one .  
I agree that the pin in the control handle is a pin in a blind hole ..if you want it out get someone with a sturdy drill press and quality drill press clamped down vice or a quality milling machine to drill it out for you for unless it is rock solid during the drill out you're like as not to run the hole to one side . ..but why do you really need to take it apart if nothing is worn or wrong  with it? drill press 

Other than that things are looking good 


Are there any data plates on the motor .. pre about 1960 most European ( excluding British  ones )  lathes would have had 110 or 220 volt motors & like as not be identified as so many Kwh for the rating rather than amps  though the words ampere may occasionally show up on such a data plate 

 Old UK wiring earlier than about 1970 was red for live , black for neutral and green for earth .
Pictures of the motors capacitor would also give clues .

Re the paint.. Take care it most likely be a hazardous lead based paint , a standard decorators paint stripper should take it off or at least soften it for rubbing off.  Don't go using powered wire brushes etc..  to take it off and create dust for you and others to breath in.  Always wear impermeable rubber gloves etc. when rubbing or stripping it off .  Shower well including hair and clean your finger nails after playing at removing the paint .  Dispose of any gunge that comes off with care and not in a house or kitchen sink where food may be prepared.


----------



## matas (Mar 21, 2015)

And, I'm back after a high moisture season (aka. the winter).... didn't want to paint the lathe, cause I was worried the paint might bubble and fall off. In the meantime I finished my CNC machine.
This is the first test run, featuring a ball point pen and a Road Runner 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152558473099340
			




--------------------
So, back to the lathe. Here I are the parts coated with two coats of gray primer from spray can.
I used masking tape to seal all the holes, and protect any surface that doesn't need painting. To trace the edges I just scraped around the edges using the blunt side of a utility knife.
It worked nicely even for round bends and such, as you can maybe see on the pictures





I used Hammerite green hammered effect paint, that I showed in an earlier post. I have to say I'm impressed.
It gives out no foul odors. The primer was acrylic, but it stank up the whole building.
Relatively quick drying, and a consistency of a honey. The guy at the store told me not to dilute it, just to shake it thoroughly and stir regularly.
I used a brush to apply it, and I didn't use much of the paint. It is relatively expensive, but you get a good bang for your buck.
I think, after I apply the second coat,  I'll use the rest to paint the stand and the motor, and a friend's large vice 


This is me applying the first coat:



Check out that nice effect and the swirl in the bucket


----------



## matas (Mar 22, 2015)

Results after the first coat:






second coat is now on, and I'll upload more pictures as it dries and I remove the masking tape and start the assembly.


----------



## matas (Mar 25, 2015)

Update: second coat nice and dry, and all the masking tape was taken off.
check out this beauty







I will have to do some finishing touches, as I mistook some spots for masking tape and wasn't paying attention to paint it. 
Also i have some primer splash that i'll have to clean, but thats easy...
now onto assembly...


----------



## partsproduction (May 5, 2015)

Great work. Did you ever get confirmation as to the make?


----------



## matas (May 6, 2015)

Unfortunately, no 
ATM I'm trying to align head stock with lathe bed. 
The swivel pins are super tight, it already took 12 hours of my time... I'm affraid to tap it with anything, as i don't want to damage the new paint


----------



## matas (Jun 2, 2015)

Well guys, this is the finished product, result of much elbow grease and lot of learning.
Thank you all for being a part of my journey and for you help and tips.
Sorry it took so long, but I've been busy on other fields of my life (no, I didn't get married  )
Unfortunately, I still haven't started producing chips, as the motor I had decided to /quit.

Please check out the before and after pictures:


----------



## 4GSR (Jun 3, 2015)

I take it, the green hammerite didn't work out and you went to the light blue finish?

Regardless,  you did a nice restoration there.  I do like the lt. blue finish.  You gave me an idea to try on my coming up restoration on another lathe.


----------



## matas (Jun 6, 2015)

Actually, thats the same green hammerite, but the light in that workshop is provided by two upcycled 40" LCD TVs, mounted on the ceiling. They give off cold light, so the green ended up bluish. But yea, if I would do this again, i'd go light blue.


----------

