# Oil question



## NCjeeper (Apr 12, 2022)

What does Mobile DTE light oil equal on the ISO scale?


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## IamNotImportant (Apr 12, 2022)

NCjeeper said:


> What does Mobile DTE light oil equal on the ISO scale?


Looks like ISO 32


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## NCjeeper (Apr 12, 2022)

Thanks.


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## IamNotImportant (Apr 12, 2022)

NCjeeper said:


> Thanks.


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## mksj (Apr 12, 2022)

Per above, see link. They also have the DTE series, and DTE24 is also and ISO32.





						PdsDetailsPage
					

The Mobil DTE™  Oil Named Series of lubricants are premium performance circulating lubricants designed for applications including steam and hydro turbine sets and other systems where long lubricant service life is required.




					www.mobil.com
				








						Products
					

Mobil DTE™ 20 Series oils are supreme performance anti-wear hydraulic oils designed to satisfy a wide range of hydraulic equipment requirements




					www.mobil.com


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## NCjeeper (Apr 12, 2022)

My Jet lathe calls for it. Just wanted to see what it will cross over to so I could save some money and just grab something at Tractor supply.


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## Canus (Apr 13, 2022)

Jeeper, Please remember that hydraulic oil is for hydraulic systems NOT gearboxes.  If this is going in a gearbox you want lubricating/turbine oil.


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## woodchucker (Apr 13, 2022)

Canus said:


> Jeeper, Please remember that hydraulic oil is for hydraulic systems NOT gearboxes.  If this is going in a gearbox you want lubricating/turbine oil.


if it calls for mobil dte, which is a hydraulic oil.
my head calls for it as well.


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## emchdev (Apr 13, 2022)

A long time ago there many oil companies that sold oil to the machine trade. A popular machine oil was 20 weight. Then we got the ISO scale.

in going over the oil for my Kearney Treker mill, I ram into this mess. Seems a lot of cross over points to Mobil DTE. A lot of machine tools will be running DTE.

mobil makes a DTE light, medium and heavy. The viscosity Maps into the ISO scale. There are versions of the Mobil heavy viscosity and one has anti rust and corrosion additives. I recall finding a Napa product that mapped over to.

these oils are sold as a form of hydraulic oil but can be used for lubrication.


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## NCjeeper (Apr 13, 2022)




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## Canus (Apr 15, 2022)

Just concerned that Tractor Supply may not carry "Mobil DTE Light"  which is a turbine oil and will try to sell you an ISO 32 "hydraulic" fluid instead.


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## Canus (Apr 15, 2022)

Woodchucker, Mobil DTE oil light is NOT a hydraulic oil.  It is a turbine oil and is designed for bearings and gearboxes NOT hydraulic systems.


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## Road_Clam (Apr 15, 2022)

DTE light and med is also a very popular way lube application.


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## woodchucker (Apr 15, 2022)

Canus said:


> Woodchucker, Mobil DTE oil light is NOT a hydraulic oil.  It is a turbine oil and is designed for bearings and gearboxes NOT hydraulic systems.


so according to the mobil web site it is  a hydraulic oil, it is used for both turbine and hydraulic.





						Products
					

The Mobil DTE™ Oil Named Series of lubricants are premium performance circulating lubricants designed for applications including steam and hydro turbine sets and other systems where long lubricant service life is required.




					www.mobil.com
				



my jug says hydraulic oil... so I will argue with you.  McMaster also lists it as https://www.mcmaster.com/mobil-dte-24-oil/
And so does this: https://www.amazon.com/Mobil-DTE-24...1650054392&sprefix=mobil+dte+24,aps,92&sr=8-4
so given that, you may be right... _BUT I AM RIGHT TOO._
Applications​The Mobil DTE Oil Named Series of lubricants are premium performance circulating lubricants designed for applications where long lubricant service life is required. Specific applications include:

     •  Land-based and marine steam turbine, hydro turbine and some gas turbine circulation systems, including pumps, valves and other ancillary equipment

     •  Continuous service in plain and roller bearings and parallel shaft gearing

     •  Turbines with oil supplied by splash, bath, ring oiling or other mechanical means

     •  Moderate severity hydraulic pumps


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## Jake M (Apr 17, 2022)

Be careful with the term "hydraulic oil", and cross referencing based on the viscosity.  That is a VERY wide range of products.  Kinda like every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square.  You want a particular square.  "Circulating Oil" is a better term to look for, as it is a more specific product.  It WILL be suitable as a hydraulic oil, but that doesn't mean every hydraulic oil is suited for circulating oil.  The same way that Way Oil is rated on the same exact system, but just touching your fingers on it, you can tell straight up that it's not the same as another.  I use that example not because you want way oil, but because it is low hanging fruit, because the difference is one you can feel and see, yet when you look around it still seems to "cross" to hydraulic oil, even though it clearly isn't.  Viscosity is just that.  Viscosity.  It has no indication of what else is going on in the particular product.

So long as you've got a name brand qualaity hydraulic oil it's "probably" going to be close enough.  It WON'T be the cheap stuff (think "303 Fluid", even though it's on the same scale, stay outta that....)  A good hydraulic oil could easily be good enough to last a lifetime in a hobby shop.  Or even in a less than ideal commercial environment, like an incidental machine kept in a fabrication shop for example, where it's lifespan won't be forever.  If you seek out a circulating oil, it will be exactly what you want.  Provided you're close on the viscosity.  Tractor Supply, as of a couple years ago when I sought out something, does not stock circulating oil, or anything that directly interchanges with it.  They do stock both well rated hydraulic oils which "could" be just fine, and they stock discount stuff that's "good enough for some things but not really good for anything".


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## sdelivery (Apr 17, 2022)

Being in this business through the rough years I have used generic hydraulic oil in headstocks, gearboxes and much more.
I have it found it specified by many manufactures in aprons and slides where it performed as a gearbox lubricant as well as a way lube, many of the same machines use it in the headstock. 
I don't believe that a hobby user would ever know the difference, I never had a problem with  using it.
I have seen problems using way oil in some hydraulic systems, apparently due to the tactifier


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## IamNotImportant (Apr 17, 2022)

sdelivery said:


> Being in this business through the rough years I have used generic hydraulic oil in headstocks, gearboxes and much more.
> I have it found it specified by many manufactures in aprons and slides where it performed as a gearbox lubricant as well as a way lube, many of the same machines use it in the headstock.
> I don't believe that a hobby user would ever know the difference, I never had a problem with  using it.
> I have seen problems using way oil in some hydraulic systems, apparently due to the tactifier





woodchucker said:


> so according to the mobil web site it is  a hydraulic oil, it is used for both turbine and hydraulic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In commercial hydro powered mowers.. the Hydro fluid used is Mobile 1 20W-50 motor oil..


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## Jim F (Apr 17, 2022)

IamNotImportant said:


> *In commercial hydro powered mowers.. the Hydro fluid used is Mobile 1 20W-50 motor oil..*


Motor oil is very bad to use in machine headstocks and such.


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## IamNotImportant (Apr 17, 2022)

Jim F said:


> Motor oil is very bad to use in machine headstocks and such.


yes i know.. but it was only an example in jest.. since there was the mention of the broadness of the term " hydrolic oil" cuz that is what they call it when it comes to the hydros in the mowers.. the hydros is what powers the mower forward and backwards.


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## Jim F (Apr 17, 2022)

IamNotImportant said:


> yes i know.. but it was only an example in jest.. since there was the mention of the broadness of the term " hydrolic oil" cuz that is what they call it when it comes to the hydros in the mowers.. the hydros is what powers the mower forward and backwards.


What is the filter change interval ?


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## IamNotImportant (Apr 17, 2022)

Jim F said:


> What is the filter change interval ?


First one is at 100 hours after that.. every 500


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## Canus (Apr 20, 2022)

Woodchucker,  Mobil DTE Light is NOT a hydraulic oil.  Mobil DTE 24 IS a hydraulic oil.  The Mobil 20 series oils are for hydraulic applications.  Again just wanting to make sure Tom doesn't purchase oil based solely on the ISO number as both lubricating oils AND hydraulic oils can have the same ISO number.


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## sdelivery (Apr 20, 2022)

Per the mobile oil website it is both


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## Firebrick43 (Apr 20, 2022)

Canus said:


> Jeeper, Please remember that hydraulic oil is for hydraulic systems NOT gearboxes.  If this is going in a gearbox you want lubricating/turbine oil.


This is not true!  The machine shop I worked at, 20 acres under roof, massive burkhardt weber, waldrich colburg, ingersoll, and even some old massive cincinatti milicrons, all used DTE 24 in the transmissions.  These were 100hp plus horizontal and portal milling machines, some which were 30 years old with minimal issues with the gear train.  

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants...ial/lubricants/products/products/mobil-dte-24

Link of mobiles site says for "Systems containing gears and bearings"

On top of that, nearly every farm tractor and much of the construction equipment uses a form of "universal tractor fluid" that is a gear and hydraulic fluid in one.  Most are common systems that the hydraulic supply is from the transmission case.


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## Gnpenning (Apr 20, 2022)

Firebrick43 said:


> Link of mobiles site says for "Systems containing gears and bearings"
> 
> On top of that, nearly every farm tractor and much of the construction equipment uses a form of "universal tractor fluid" that is a gear and hydraulic fluid in one.  Most are common systems that the hydraulic supply is from the transmission case.



I use the universal in my tractor.  It uses the same tank for the hydraulics and manual gear box plus the rear end.  I've wondered about using it on my lathe and mill but never have.  It's been holding up to my 90hp tractor with some heavy use.


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## jwmelvin (Apr 20, 2022)

Yes the distinctions among the various lubricants can be subtle and I’m pretty convinced they rarely matter in low-duty-cycle use. My surface grinder uses common lubricant for ways and hydraulic control. Gear oils may have some performance edge in the high-pressure contact zone. Of course there are some fluids destructive to yellow metal.


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## matthewsx (Apr 21, 2022)

I used to build racing go kart engines and the "which oil" arguments were endless. I shipped my engines with a quart of oil and whenever someone wanted to discuss it I would give a recommendation which began with "use the proper quantity and change it frequently".

Now these were Briggs utility engines which had been modified to put out 3 or 4 times their original power so they were pretty stressed. In all the years I did this I saw maybe 2 or 3 engine failures not related to running too little oil (seems like some folks thought having the right amount of oil would rob them of power)

So, I think I'll stay with my Tractor Supply hydraulic oil. My research says the most important thing is buying something that won't attack brass or bronze like some of the new oil additives can for gearbox oil. Way oil just needs to be tacky so it doesn't drip off before it can do it's job. If you want to seek out the OEM oil or equivalent for your machines I have nothing against that, I just realize that when manufacturers spec a lubricant they're thinking about a machine running 8 or 16 hours a day. My hobby machines get a lot less use than that....

John


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## Ischgl99 (Apr 21, 2022)

The difference between Mobil DTE named and numbered lubricants is the amount of anti-wear additives.  Some older equipment might not be compatible with the higher levels of AW additives that newer machines require, so that is why both are offered.  Both are used for machinery lubrication.

From my “The Practical Handbook of Machinery Lubrication” published by Noria (experts in machinery lubrication):

The functions of a hydraulic oil can be summarized:
1.  Transmit power from one point to another.
2.  Lubricate and protect the system components from friction, wear and contamination.
3.  Transfer and disperse heat generated in the system.
4.  Provide a seal and maintain pressure.

Hydraulic oil’s main focus is transmitting power, a lubricating oil’s main focus is reducing friction, so depending on the application, one might be better than the other.  But, hydraulic oil is excellent at reducing friction provided it is offered in the required viscosity range and is used in many types of machinery for lubrication of bearings and gearing.  Just because it has characteristics that make it better at transmitting power than industrial lubricating oils does not mean it is not suitable at lubricating bearings and gears.  The most important characteristic of an oil selected for anti friction applications is it’s viscosity, the other features are a distant second.  In the calculations for selecting an oil for bearing lubrication, viscosity is the only characteristic used.  

The industrial centrifuge manufacturer I used to work for specified Mobil DTE 26 for lubricating bearings for machines running at 3,500 rpm as well as the cycloidal gearboxes used to drive the scroll drive.  It functioned very well at lubricating the components, as well as removing heat from the bearings. We switched that to SHC 626 (a circulating oil) since in the larger machines in hot environments the bearings were running around 90c and dino oil was oxidizing quickly requiring more frequent oil changes.  I don’t think anyone here is running their headstocks so hard that the bearings are reaching 90C and need a circulating oil.

All this talk about the differences between the different oil classifications is splitting hairs.  Very few of us here use our machines in an industrial environment where the differences might make a difference.  Select an oil with the right viscosity and anti wear additives and you will probably never notice a difference between Mobil, Shell, or even Tractor Supply oil in our lifetimes.


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## woodchucker (Apr 21, 2022)

sdelivery said:


> Per the mobile oil website it is both


Thank you, somehow @Canus thinks the data sheet is wrong. I'm going with the data sheet..   Not the man.


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## Janderso (Apr 21, 2022)

Jim F said:


> Motor oil is very bad to use in machine headstocks and such.


+1
As I understand it, motor oil for a car engine for example, is designed to pick up and remove any grit, grime to be caught in the filter which is replaced regularly.
On machine tools, you want that grit/grime to stay in the sump or areas of the castings that will stay put and not be flushed through the bushings and bearing surfaces.
That’s the way I understand it anyway.


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## Janderso (Apr 21, 2022)

Ischgl99 said:


> The difference between Mobil DTE named and numbered lubricants is the amount of anti-wear additives.  Some older equipment might not be compatible with the higher levels of AW additives that newer machines require, so that is why both are offered.  Both are used for machinery lubrication.
> 
> From my “The Practical Handbook of Machinery Lubrication” published by Noria (experts in machinery lubrication):
> 
> ...


Thinking of using the wrong lubricant in a headstock that runs at 2,000 RPM kind of illustrates how important it is to choose the correct product.
I would agree that low rpm machines would probably be ok with a quality hydraulic oil of the correct viscosity.
Interesting discussion.


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## woodchucker (Apr 21, 2022)

Janderso said:


> +1
> As I understand it, motor oil for a car engine for example, is designed to pick up and remove any grit, grime to be caught in the filter which is replaced regularly.
> On machine tools, you want that grit/grime to stay in the sump or areas of the castings that will stay put and not be flushed through the bushings and bearing surfaces.
> That’s the way I understand it anyway.


Let's be specific. That's Detergent motor oil.  *Non-Detergent *drops to the bottom.
Non-Detergent is getting hard to find at the Auto stores. Walmart used to carry it, and no longer does.
Advance and Auto Zone have thinned out and you have to get it when they have it.


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## Janderso (Apr 21, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> Let's be specific. That's Detergent motor oil.  *Non-Detergent *drops to the bottom.
> Non-Detergent is getting hard to find at the Auto stores. Walmart used to carry it, and no longer does.
> Advance and Auto Zone have thinned out and you have to get it when they have it.


Yeah, you are right.
We always used non detergent in the car wash pumps and motor oil in the Honda engines.
Getting the car wash staff to get this right was always a bit of a challenge


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## sdelivery (Apr 21, 2022)

Janderso said:


> +1
> As I understand it, motor oil for a car engine for example, is designed to pick up and remove any grit, grime to be caught in the filter which is replaced regularly.
> On machine tools, you want that grit/grime to stay in the sump or areas of the castings that will stay put and not be flushed through the bushings and bearing surfaces.
> That’s the way I understand it anyway.


That is correct


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## sdelivery (Apr 21, 2022)

You guys would be shocked to know what most machine shops use......


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## Janderso (Apr 21, 2022)

sdelivery said:


> You guys would be shocked to know what most machine shops use......


Oh, do tell.


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## Ischgl99 (Apr 21, 2022)

sdelivery said:


> You guys would be shocked to know what most machine shops use......


And industrial plants.  Some of them believe every word of the snake oil salesmen until they do tens of thousands of dollars in damage to their equipment, but they saved a couple bucks on a tube of grease…


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## sdelivery (Apr 21, 2022)

Oils carry specifications.
"Requirements"
If an oil carries the correct specifications then the cheapest wins out.
I have used Acme Refining for decades.They blend the oils to specifications including the specialty oils we ran in the Sip and Dixie Jig Bores and other spindles for half the price.
Most companies I see two oils, Hydraulic iso32, way oil Iso64
Reguardless of brand.
I never see lubrication problems caused by generic oils or incorrect oils,
It is usually contamination and lack of maintenance.


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## matthewsx (Apr 21, 2022)

sdelivery said:


> Oils carry specifications.
> "Requirements"
> If an oil carries the correct specifications then the cheapest wins out.
> I have used Acme Refining for decades.They blend the oils to specifications including the specialty oils we ran in the Sip and Dixie Jig Bores and other spindles for half the price.
> ...


Specifications exist for a reason. 

If you prefer a name brand then go with it but realize that all the major suppliers source from each other as required and put their own label on what they sell. I think if you search this topic on here you will find a member who worked for one of them and clued us in on that.

Me, I use VP tractor oil from Tractor Supply. If I wear my lathe out I'll rebuild or replace as I see fit but I doubt I ever will....

John


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## Canus (Apr 22, 2022)

This is the difference between lubricating oil and hydraulic oil.  As I have stated previously, they are NOT the same.

Mobil DTE Oil Light (Premium Performance Circulating Lubricants)





						Products
					

The Mobil DTE™ Oil Named Series of lubricants are premium performance circulating lubricants designed for applications including steam and hydro turbine sets and other systems where long lubricant service life is required.




					www.mobil.com
				




Mobil DTE 24 (Hydraulic Oil)





						Products
					

Mobil DTE™ 20 Series oils are supreme performance anti-wear hydraulic oils designed to satisfy a wide range of hydraulic equipment requirements




					www.mobil.com


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## woodchucker (Apr 22, 2022)

Canus said:


> This is the difference between lubricating oil and hydraulic oil.  As I have stated previously, they are NOT the same.
> 
> Mobil DTE Oil Light (Premium Performance Circulating Lubricants)
> 
> ...


obviously not a good reader. Amazing.  But you are trying to prove you are right.. and I am not going to let you have it.
Read the product sheets.. I won't be seeing your responses.. IGNORE


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## Road_Clam (Apr 22, 2022)

Jim F said:


> Motor oil is very bad to use in machine headstocks and such.


Please explain.


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## Shootymacshootface (Apr 22, 2022)

sdelivery said:


> Being in this business through the rough years I have used generic hydraulic oil in headstocks, gearboxes and much more.
> I have it found it specified by many manufactures in aprons and slides where it performed as a gearbox lubricant as well as a way lube, many of the same machines use it in the headstock.
> I don't believe that a hobby user would ever know the difference, I never had a problem with  using it.
> I have seen problems using way oil in some hydraulic systems, apparently due to the tactifier


This is exactly right. 
For anyone that has never worked on a hydraulic pump, most of them a gear pumps. They consist of two or more metal gears, metal roller bearings, often they have bronze bushings instead of bearings, and rubber seals.
The headstock of my Clausing used to get almost hot when running at high speeds. I changed the oil to ISO 68 that I got from Tractor Supply and now it barely ever gets warm.


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## Firebrick43 (Apr 22, 2022)

Canus said:


> This is the difference between lubricating oil and hydraulic oil.  As I have stated previously, they are NOT the same.
> 
> Mobil DTE Oil Light (Premium Performance Circulating Lubricants)
> 
> ...


[edited by mod]

The 20 series was developed as a dual replacement for both hydraulic oils and lubricating oils.  They were going to discontinue the light/medium/heavy oils and just have the 20 series. 

I don't know of a single CNC machine manufacture made since the early 90's that doesn't call out DTE 24 or DTE 25 in the Gear boxes.  The older machine, the mobile Rep will tell you that its ok to sub DTE 24 for mobile DTE oil light. 

Other brands, which are very similar specs(if not the same) as DTE 26,  know as universal tractor oils, are both a hydraulic, and a lubrication oil.


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## Ischgl99 (Apr 22, 2022)

Road_Clam said:


> Please explain.


Most motor oils have a detergent additive that keeps contaminates suspended so the oil filter can remove them.  Most lathes have a sump lubrication, ie. the gears and bearings run in a pool of oil that gets splashed onto the gears and bearings.  In a sump, you want the contaminates to settle out so that they do not get deposited on the gears or bearings and cause more wear.


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## matthewsx (Apr 22, 2022)

If you have the right amount of the right spec oil, and change it periodically you will be fine. The spec of the oil does not include what the manufacturer names it, it's an international standard designed to make sure products are what they claim. ISO works very hard to make sure products which claim to meet their standards actually do.





__





						International Organization for Standardization
					

We're ISO, the International Organization for Standardization. We develop and publish International Standards.




					www.iso.org
				




If you want to make your decisions based on manufacturers marketing materials go right ahead. It's your money....

John


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## Dabbler (May 4, 2022)

@Road_Clam it is incorrect to use motor oil in a gearbox because:

motor oil contains detergent and other additives the suspend wear particles in the oil.  It requires the oil to be moving all the time towards a filter to filter out those particles.  If you don't have the filter and circulating pump, then the particles stay in contact with the gears, increasing wear.

Motor oil is expected to be changed regularly - in some cases measured in a limited number of months.  Gear oil in a headstock is expected to last many years.  The detergents in the oil (and perhaps some of the other additives) have the side effect of allowing moisture to be absorbed into the oil.  If allowed to continue a lot longer than the service life of the oil, it can result in breakdown of the oil and ultimately promoting corrosion.


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## Road_Clam (May 4, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> @Road_Clam it is incorrect to use motor oil in a gearbox because:
> 
> motor oil contains detergent and other additives the suspend wear particles in the oil.  It requires the oil to be moving all the time towards a filter to filter out those particles.  If you don't have the filter and circulating pump, then the particles stay in contact with the gears, increasing wear.
> 
> Motor oil is expected to be changed regularly - in some cases measured in a limited number of months.  Gear oil in a headstock is expected to last many years.  The detergents in the oil (and perhaps some of the other additives) have the side effect of allowing moisture to be absorbed into the oil.  If allowed to continue a lot longer than the service life of the oil, it can result in breakdown of the oil and ultimately promoting corrosion.



You do realize that the motorcycle gearbox transmission / engine application has shared the common "motor oil" for the past 70 years ( this including dirty carbon contamination from combustion) ? I respect all feedback. I only express my opinions and experiences.


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## Firebrick43 (May 4, 2022)

Road_Clam said:


> You do realize that the motorcycle gearbox transmission / engine application has shared the common "motor oil" for the past 70 years ( this including dirty carbon contamination from combustion) ? I respect all feedback. I only express my opinions and experiences.


His comments were towards gearbox like in lathe headstocks that have no filter at all.  A lot of old gearbox and even motors (pre 50's) in tractors/heavy equipment even had hand covers in their oil pans/sump so you could service it by scraping the sludge/contaminates that settled out of the oil.  

Most motorcycles do have filters for all the oil if they share a sump.  Maybe some early ones didn't?


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## Road_Clam (May 4, 2022)

All wet sump engine filtration systems are "bypass" design. The bypass is a safety check valve that only filters a portion of the oil. This design is to allow pressure relief for a possibley  contaminate clogged filter element and not burst the filter housing from excessive oil pressure.


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## woodchucker (May 4, 2022)

Road_Clam said:


> You do realize that the motorcycle gearbox transmission / engine application has shared the common "motor oil" for the past 70 years ( this including dirty carbon contamination from combustion) ? I respect all feedback. I only express my opinions and experiences.


You do realize that they are filtered systems and replaced frequently.


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## Dabbler (May 4, 2022)

@Road_Clam I meant no disrespect for your experience.  I am relating what lubrication companies have told me for a very long time.  I know nothing about motorcycles - I just use machines that have lasted a long time without (much) wear.  Frankly, any oil is better than none, clean is better than dirty, and getting the perfect match for a lubricant comes after these....

I have talked with lube guys a lot, as I've heard a lot of guys talk about different lubrication strategies with polar opposite opinions, so then I call up Shell or Exxon and talk to one of their lube specialists to get a clarification...


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## Road_Clam (May 9, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> @Road_Clam* I meant no disrespect for your experience.  *I am relating what lubrication companies have told me for a very long time.  I know nothing about motorcycles - I just use machines that have lasted a long time without (much) wear.  Frankly, any oil is better than none, clean is better than dirty, and getting the perfect match for a lubricant comes after these....
> 
> I have talked with lube guys a lot, as I've heard a lot of guys talk about different lubrication strategies with polar opposite opinions, so then I call up Shell or Exxon and talk to one of their lube specialists to get a clarification...


None taken. Like i commented , i respect all feedback and experiences.


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