# Outboard Spider



## Capt45 (Feb 20, 2018)

How can I fit a Outboard Spider to my PM1022?


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## dlane (Feb 20, 2018)

I’m not familiar with that lathe but  “when there’s a will there’s a way” 
Is there any spindle sticking out the left side ?. 
You may have to modify things a bit , should be doable.


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## jbolt (Feb 20, 2018)

On the end of your spindle is a lock nut that holds the spindle assembly together. You would need to remove that and make a spider that threads on and then use brass tipped set screws, or flat end set screws against brass plugs to lock the spider the the spindle. The spider becomes the lock nut. This may also require removing or modifying the gear cover.


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## Capt45 (Feb 20, 2018)

Kinda what I thought, but I wanted to hear it from someone that knows more on the topic than do I.  I contacted PM and didn't get an answer as to how to go about the task.  Thanks jbolt.


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## jbolt (Feb 20, 2018)

I did something similar on my old lathe to adapt a 5C collet closer. Same principle. Not too difficult to do. Let me know if you have any questions.


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## Coomba (Feb 21, 2018)

When making your own out board spider, do each one of the four adjusting screws,have to be in the same center line,as it’s jaw counter part,on the four jaw chuck?


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## Chipper5783 (Feb 21, 2018)

Coomba said:


> When making your own out board spider, do each one of the four adjusting screws,have to be in the same center line,as it’s jaw counter part,on the four jaw chuck?



No.  Obviously it depends on your application.  I just put 3 adjusting screws on mine - but I only use it when holding small diameter round material (rod or tubing).  I made up some back end plastic bushings that secure with an O-ring - easier and quicker then a back end spider.  It is not like there are a huge number of different sizes that I need (again, my application).  3 bushings and I'm set.

Certainly if your application is small square bar, then you'd need 4 jaws and they would have to line up with your 4 jaw chuck.


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## Buffalobull (Feb 21, 2018)

Here is an alternative idea if you do a lot of round stock. I do a lot of barrel work and it works perfectly....runs out right at .001 so plenty close enough that far from the work area. Only draw back are octagon barrels


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## Tozguy (Feb 22, 2018)

Coomba said:


> When making your own out board spider, do each one of the four adjusting screws,have to be in the same center line,as it’s jaw counter part,on the four jaw chuck?



It is not absolutely necessary but it sure makes the job easier for me.


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## Coomba (Feb 22, 2018)

The man that taught me, used two test indicators, with a range rod. He made all of his adjustments using s barrel fixture from the front of his lathe.  He dialed them into dead nuts. Just seem to me if the spider and the chuck jaws were not in line you would not be adjusting the same plane. Will someone explain? Just my thoughts, I'm not trying to contradict anyone. Still in the learning process.


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## Robert LaLonde (Feb 22, 2018)

Capt45 said:


> Kinda what I thought, but I wanted to hear it from someone that knows more on the topic than do I.  I contacted PM and didn't get an answer as to how to go about the task.  Thanks jbolt.



I'm surprised. Matt just about always answers actual questions, although I admit he often does not respond to "comments."


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## Capt45 (Feb 22, 2018)

Bob La Londe said:


> I'm surprised. Matt just about always answers actual questions, although I admit he often does not respond to "comments."


I don't understand your comment.  I DID ask Matt a question, not a "comment". I asked him "how can I fit a outboard spider to my PM1022".


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## Robert LaLonde (Feb 22, 2018)

Capt45 said:


> I don't understand your comment.  I DID ask Matt a question, not a "comment". I asked him "how can I fit a outboard spider to my PM1022".



I thought my comment was self explanatory.  Did you take offense to it for some reason.  

First sentence.  I'm surprised.  That means that I find it surprising.  

First clause of second sentence.  "Matt just about always answers actual questions" in my experience I do not recall an instance were Matt did not respond to a question.  

Second clause of second sentence.  " I admit he often does not respond to "comments.""  In my experience Matt does not always respond to comments that do not include a question.  

Does that help?


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## Capt45 (Feb 22, 2018)

Not offended in the least Bob; just concerned you didn't understand my OP which is word for word how I asked my question, not comment.  It's your second sentence that made me suspicious of your understanding.  I've had a couple of interactions with Matt, one with good results and one without results at all.


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## 3strucking (Feb 22, 2018)

Is that a mini 4 jaw chuck?


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## Tozguy (Feb 22, 2018)

Coomba said:


> The man that taught me, used two test indicators, with a range rod. He made all of his adjustments using s barrel fixture from the front of his lathe.  He dialed them into dead nuts. Just seem to me if the spider and the chuck jaws were not in line you would not be adjusting the same plane. Will someone explain? Just my thoughts, I'm not trying to contradict anyone. Still in the learning process.


If a barrel can be dialled in using only a barrel fixture from the front of the lathe then you don't need an outboard spider. I have seen a special chuck that is designed just for that purpose but it is nothing like a common four jaw chuck.
With a simple four point chuck or spider to hold the front of the barrel you need an outboard spider to dial it in.


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## Buffalobull (Feb 22, 2018)

My previous posts pictures were a little misleading...I just threw a barrel in to show the relationship between the two chucks . Here is actually my barrel spider setup w/rangerod and indicators. No need for a outboard spider


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## umahunter (Feb 22, 2018)

Look up one for the grizzly  g0602 it's also a 10 x 22 lathe there's a couple videos  on it on youtube


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## brino (Feb 22, 2018)

Buffalobull said:


> Here is an alternative idea if you do a lot of round stock.



Okay, neat idea.....But how is that outboard chuck mounted? 
If by (right-handed) threads it seems to me it would really want to unscrew, especially during spin-up.....but I guess having it grip the same item that's in the in-board collet would help that.

Also is that a six jaw?

Thanks,
-brino


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## Buffalobull (Feb 22, 2018)

brino said:


> Okay, neat idea.....But how is that outboard chuck mounted?
> If by (right-handed) threads it seems to me it would really want to unscrew, especially during spin-up.....but I guess having it grip the same item that's in the in-board collet would help that.
> 
> Also is that a six jaw?
> ...


Yes it is 6 jaw. 3 jaws went missing somewhere along the line and was gonna throw it out so I repurposed it. Its a tight slip fit onto the spindle tube then just tighten the 4 screws. My lever collet chuck attaches the same way, both work great and run very tru


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## Tozguy (Feb 23, 2018)

brino said:


> Okay, neat idea.....But how is that outboard chuck mounted?
> If by (right-handed) threads it seems to me it would really want to unscrew, especially during spin-up.....but I guess having it grip the same item that's in the in-board collet would help that.
> Thanks,
> -brino



Yes that is right, the inboard spider (or chuck) holds the work from turning so there is no torque on the outboard spider. The outboard spider is only for locating the barrel wrt the spindle axis and only enough pressure should be used on the screws to accomplish that. Any additional pressure added with the intent of 'holding' the barrel from turning can be counterproductive.


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## Coomba (Feb 23, 2018)

Buffalobull said:


> My previous posts pictures were a little misleading...I just threw a barrel in to show the relationship between the two chucks . Here is actually my barrel spider setup w/rangerod and indicators. No need for a outboard spider



Yup, that’s what I was taught on.


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## JoeC (Mar 1, 2018)

Buffalobull said:


> My previous posts pictures were a little misleading...I just threw a barrel in to show the relationship between the two chucks . Here is actually my barrel spider setup w/rangerod and indicators. No need for a outboard spider


Hi, Joe here, pretty new to machining.
So with the barrel in the inboard spider, wouldn't you still want the other end of the barrel in an outboard spider to keep it from whipping around?


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## Tozguy (Mar 2, 2018)

Joe, my barrel work is done at 65 rpm. I would not be concerned about a 1.25'' diameter pipe whipping around at that speed especially if it is carefully set coaxial to the spindle axis to start with using Buffalo's set up.

The idea of extra outboard support might still be good idea especially for longer thinner barrels, say 30'' or more, so am looking forward to reading what Buffalo does.


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## Bamban (Mar 2, 2018)

Buffalobull said:


> My previous posts pictures were a little misleading...I just threw a barrel in to show the relationship between the two chucks . Here is actually my barrel spider setup w/rangerod and indicators. No need for a outboard spider



How long is that cathead? What is the spacing between the 2 sets of screws? How is it mounted on the plate, welded, bolted?


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## Buffalobull (Mar 5, 2018)

JoeC said:


> Hi, Joe here, pretty new to machining.
> So with the barrel in the inboard spider, wouldn't you still want the other end of the barrel in an outboard spider to keep it from whipping around?





Tozguy said:


> Joe, my barrel work is done at 65 rpm. I would not be concerned about a 1.25'' diameter pipe whipping around at that speed especially if it is carefully set coaxial to the spindle axis to start with using Buffalo's set up.
> 
> The idea of extra outboard support might still be good idea especially for longer thinner barrels, say 30'' or more, so am looking forward to reading what Buffalo does.




  Tozguy pretty much summed it up. turning at a low rpm there is not much of a chance for whipping. It takes at least a 30" barrel to even make it to the lathes original spider and if it does make it I just snug them up , I don't want to put any pressure to the dialed in barrel axis so the outboard chuck I have is not used. The overall length is approx. 11" including the D1-5 plate and the bolts are 4 3/4" apart


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## Buffalobull (Mar 5, 2018)

In my original post I mentioned using the outboard chuck for barrel work. These pictures should shed better light on that setup. I made a special set of jaws for holding tapered barrels (pic 1).... I utilize the outboard chuck not only to center the barrel but also to hold it from pushing back when turning and threading mainly for muzzle breaks and when crowning the barrel (pic 2). Due to the small thru hole of the chuck I do have to make adapters to hold the chamber end of the barrel (pic 3)


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