# Info about DROs



## Dunc1

Wondering about the reasons for the large price difference between the glass-scale based and the magnetic-scale based units. A 3-axis glass-scale based unit (with read-out) is at least $500 whereas the magnetic scale (look like a digital electronic caliper with the measuring blades removed) could easily be under $100.

I am interested as a home hobbyist (intermittent use), not a production setting. I can't justify the higher cost for the amount of use.

My machines are non-cnc. Will these compensate for the backlash? In other words, will "dead" space (handwheel rotates but the table does not move) also show on the dro or must the table actually move before the indicator registers a change?

What are the shortcomings, compromises etc of the magnetic scale devices?
Are accuracy (or lack of) and repeatability, etc factors? 
What makes one brand better than another?
What features are must-have, desirable and eye candy?

Finally, what, if anything, do I need to do differently now that dro's provide the readout?


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## Walt

I think the main difference between the more expensive DROs and the ~$100 units is the money buys you precision and accuracy, also maybe a wall socket powered control unit instead of battery powered. 

How much P&A is enough? I'm guestimating that I'm getting within +- 0.0015 to 0.002" (good precision within this accuracy limit) with the AccuRemote unit I purchased for my mill z-axis. I can use my micrometer to get closer if I need to. I can't spend $500-$700 on this piece of equipment with all the other things I need. The DRO has been a great improvement over the etched scale on the feed crank of my mill. The z-axis has ~0.050" lash, but it's very difficult to track the lash because the friction in the slide and gibs makes the power head stick up, while gravity and cutting vibration pulls it down. The DRO is unaffected by gear lash, and gives a *much* more accurate indication of where the tip of the cutting tool is, at least in this case.

What you need to do differently? Not much. But mounting the scale can be a challenge. My machine has minimal clearance for the scale and I had to fabricate my own mounting brackets.

A really nice thing about the DRO is you don't have to count revolutions of the feed handle. It's still possible to loose track of where the cutter head is relative to the work piece, but a DRO make it a lot easier to track.

Hope this helps.

Walt


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## rgsparber

Dunc1 said:


> Wondering about the reasons for the large price difference between the glass-scale based and the magnetic-scale based units. A 3-axis glass-scale based unit (with read-out) is at least $500 whereas the magnetic scale (look like a digital electronic caliper with the measuring blades removed) could easily be under $100.
> 
> I am interested as a home hobbyist (intermittent use), not a production setting. I can't justify the higher cost for the amount of use.
> 
> My machines are non-cnc. Will these compensate for the backlash? In other words, will "dead" space (handwheel rotates but the table does not move) also show on the dro or must the table actually move before the indicator registers a change?
> 
> What are the shortcomings, compromises etc of the magnetic scale devices?
> Are accuracy (or lack of) and repeatability, etc factors?
> What makes one brand better than another?
> What features are must-have, desirable and eye candy?
> 
> Finally, what, if anything, do I need to do differently now that dro's provide the readout?



There are low cost DROs that plug in the wall and have all of the basic features. At least one can connect to a low cost scale or to a glass scale. 

Scales have two accuracy components. There is an absolute error of maybe +/- 1 count. More importantly there is a percentage error. The further your move, the larger the number of thou error you get. If you use a low cost scale and move many inches, the error is surprisingly large. But it is rare that I need much accuracy at that distance. 

In general I need to move a large distance from a reference point with low accuracy. Then I need to machine a feature, move a small distance with high accuracy, and machine a second feature. I do this by first using the absolute mode. then I switch to incremental. 

There is a saying: the cleanest area in any shop is the Function key on the DRO. Essential features, IMHO, are XYZ readout, absolute and incremental, and tool offset. This last one is nice but you can easily live without it. I can't think of any other functions that I use more than once a year. And it isn't that I don't know how to use these functions, I wrote a user's guide for the one I own.

I'm kind of a nut about accuracy yet am very happy with my low cost DRO. I do own a top of the line mic for really demanding work.

My lathe uses two really low cost digital calipers from Harbor Freight. they are modified to give me longitudinal and crossfeed readouts. Work great for me and cost less than $35 plus scrap from my junk bin.

On a related issue, having an edge finder is essential. You use it to set the zero point for a given scale. I have one wired to my DRO but having a stand alone edge finder is OK. If wired, you tell the DRO you are about to use the edge finder. Then you feed in until the cutter touches the workpiece. This causes the related axis to jump to 0. Handy.

Rick Sparber
Rick.Sparber.org


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## rdhem2

The table has to move to register on the read out.  It has no clue of what the handles and knobs, or you, are doing.  Only what the table is doing.  The movable point versus the fixed point.  I finally bought a low cost (cheap) one from SCAR? and could not be happier.  I probably use about 4% of its features.  My accuracy and finished results are greatly improved.  I tell people "I can drill a hole in a hair now"!

Great on the mill but I am still out to lunch about the lathe.  I use dial indicators there if I require real precision.  Now the quill on the drill press there is another question.  My radial arm drill press has a 10" stroke on the quill and a digital scale there would be sweet.  Like most things, nothing time and money can't fix!:thumbsup:​


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## Fitter Bill

rgsparber@aol.com said:


> There are low cost DROs that plug in the wall and have all of the basic features. At least one can connect to a low cost scale or to a glass scale....................................................................................................................................................................... This causes the related axis to jump to 0. Handy.
> 
> Rick Sparber
> Rick.Sparber.org




Way to go Rick...Looks like I won't get anything done today. I took a look at your website, what a wealth of information.

Thank you
Bill


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## Jerry

Rick
I'll start a thread with this same question, but will also ask here. What model and or brand of touch probe do you own? I have read several reviews with problems of some of them.
thanks in advance
Jerry


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## ranch23

I have a DRO on my lathe and if you ever use one you will never go back.


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## JimSchroeder

Dunc1 said:


> Wondering about the reasons for the large price difference between the glass-scale based and the magnetic-scale based units. A 3-axis glass-scale based unit (with read-out) is at least $500 whereas the magnetic scale (look like a digital electronic caliper with the measuring blades removed) could easily be under $100.
> 
> I am interested as a home hobbyist (intermittent use), not a production setting. I can't justify the higher cost for the amount of use.
> 
> My machines are non-cnc. Will these compensate for the backlash? In other words, will "dead" space (handwheel rotates but the table does not move) also show on the dro or must the table actually move before the indicator registers a change?
> 
> What are the shortcomings, compromises etc of the magnetic scale devices?
> Are accuracy (or lack of) and repeatability, etc factors?
> What makes one brand better than another?
> What features are must-have, desirable and eye candy?
> 
> Finally, what, if anything, do I need to do differently now that dro's provide the readout?



The differences are rather significant.  What you are calling "magnetic" scales are probably "capacitive" scales.  The big difference in using calipers or other common measuring scales with a remote read head is flutter.  Glass scales provide a much more stable readout and can go to tenths.  A good low cost way to equip a machine with DRO's to see if they are your cup of tea is the Grizzly self contained display units.  These are very inexpensive (about $28 for a six inch unit including remote display head) and you can take the remote display heads and group them together so that you can see all of the axis without having to look at the physical scale.  Take a look in the Grizzly catalog, the scales are from I-Gauging and are available from several sources.

I first equipped my mini-mill/lathe with DRO scales some years ago.  The improvement in accuracy was rather astounding.   Trying to obtain accuracy while dealing with large amounts of backlash became very simple.  I cannot imagine using the imported Chinese equipment without digit scales of some type.  

Jim


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## Randy_m

rgsparber said:


> In general I need to move a large distance from a reference point with low accuracy. Then I need to machine a feature, move a small distance with high accuracy, and machine a second feature. I do this by first using the absolute mode. then I switch to incremental.
> 
> 
> 
> Rick.Sparber.org



Please explain this more. I never understood the difference between absolute and incremental, and why I have that choice on my dro's.

Thanks Randy


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## darkzero

Randy_m said:


> Please explain this more. I never understood the difference between absolute and incremental, and why I have that choice on my dro's.
> 
> Thanks Randy



Another way that I find it useful is sometimes I need to switch back & forth between two tools. I perform the first operation with the first tool zero'd on absolute mode. Then switch tools & zero that tool on incremental mode. After I'm done with that I switch back to the other tool & back to absolute mode, my settings are retained so I don't have to zero again. I could also set tool offsets but I haven't set up any tools in my lathe DRO yet.

Absolute would be your reference & incremental is based off abolute. So it you zero'd in incremental mode, if you change to absolute & zero again, you incremental values will change whatever that difference was when you zero'd absolute.


EDIT: 

Here's a link showing the difference: http://www.mmattera.com/g-code/abs-inc.html

This past Sat I made a simple holder for screws. Occasionally I have to shorten screws to custom lengths & holding the short tiny ones to the belt sander is interesting.

I just took a strip & tapped all the sizes I think I might need. I spaced the holes 0.2" apart from each major dia of the different thread sizes. So with the DRO I zero'd at the edge in absolute, advanced 0.2" + the radius of the first hole. I use incremental to advance to the next hole to be drilled/threaded. Everytime I get to the next point where I would drill a hole, I switch back to absolute & record my reading. Then back to incremental to advance to the next hole. Now that I have recorded all my readings in absolute positioning, the next time I go to make another one of these I don't have to spend time calculating spacing, etc. I just use my DRO to move the table to the readings I recorded & drill away.


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## Moe6931

Hi all,

This is a very interesting thread for me. I have a Chinese made X5015 milling machine which would really benefit from having a DRO fitted. I'd like to know if anyone has had the experience of fitting a DRO to a small mill and whether there are any Gotchas to be aware of. I'm thinking of taking the plunge for a 3 axis glass scale unit.

Thanks.

Moe


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## bpratl

Moe6931 said:


> Hi all,
> This is a very interesting thread for me. I have a Chinese made X5015 milling machine which would really benefit from having a DRO fitted. I'd like to know if anyone has had the experience of fitting a DRO to a small mill and whether there are any Gotchas to be aware of. I'm thinking of taking the plunge for a 3 axis glass scale unit.
> Thanks.
> Moe



I converted to 3 axis glass scale DRO last year and it was the best move that I have made in 30 years. The only gotcha is to insure that the glass scales are parallel and flat within .005" to the driven axis. A lot of shims and testing will pay off. My lathe uses cheaper magnetic Chinese DRO's which are a lot less critical in the mounting or alignment. Someday I will upgrade to Glass DRO's.


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## bix

I have used a number of the igaging type inexpensive DROs (3 on the mill, 3 on the lathe, one on my drillpress). Here is why I think they are less expensive than the glass-slide type:

1) They don't have as much resolution capability. Many of the glass slide type DROs are capable of 0.0001" resolution while the igaging type are 0.0005" at best
2) They are much more susceptible to dirt and grit. See below.
3) The have a little backlash.
4) Better/faster electronics. Typically the more expensive units read very fast, while the igaging type read at a much slower rate, which sometimes slows one down in making a precise move.

Backlash: I have one of these digital scales on my 7x12 lathe cross-slide. I modified the cross slide to increase the travel, and I also changed the leadscrew nut to an anti-backlash design. In testing, I had the backlash down to about 0.001", but couldn't get it lower - it should have been almost zero. I was tearing my hair out until I put a dial test indicator on the slide and saw that the slide itself did in fact have immeasurably small backlash, and what I was seeing was the backlash in the digital scale. So users should be aware that there is a little, and if that's important to always approach a critical measurement from the same direction that the scale was zeroed. I don't know, but I suspect the more expensive readouts don't suffer from this.

Dirt: I can say from personal experience that fluids and grit will screw up these inexpensive units fairly quickly. When they get dirty, their behavior is very erratic to the point of being useless. I was able to restore two of them to proper operation by disassembling the sensor slide, cleaning with alcohol or electronic pcb flux remover, and them blowing them dry and blowing out any remaining debris with compressed air. Also the slide itself must be cleaned thoroughly. On my mill X scale and the lathe carriage position scale, I've now added covers over the scales, and that has helped a lot. The covers are basically the ones in the G0704 DRO mod shown at MadModder: http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=6512.0 and they do a great job of keeping oil and grit and chips off of the scales.

Having said all that, the inexpensive units are a great value, and I can't imagine working without them.

bix


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## itsme_Bernie

Guys!  The cheap iGaging scales at 30% off at Grizzly right now!  I'm not a paid advertiser, but am so excited I just ordered a bunch!

I used cheap scales I modified (***** to drill), and really liked it already.


Bernie


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## Dunc1

Ref the Grizzly dro's on sale:

Grizzly refers to them as suited for woodworking machinery vs the industrial quality, stainless steel (Grizzly's description) units immediately below on page 755 of the 2013 catalog.

While the sale items are not as accurate as the industrial quality (0.002/6 in vs 0.001/6 inches) what are the other differences? What relegates one (assuming the accuracy is adequate to your needs) to woodworking and the other to industrial (presumably metal machining)? Is there better sealing of the parts to moisture, lubricants, etc? Or... ?


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## Walt

Dunc1 said:


> Ref the Grizzly dro's on sale:
> 
> Grizzly refers to them as suited for woodworking machinery vs the industrial quality, stainless steel (Grizzly's description) units immediately below on page 755 of the 2013 catalog.
> 
> While the sale items are not as accurate as the industrial quality (0.002/6 in vs 0.001/6 inches) what are the other differences? What relegates one (assuming the accuracy is adequate to your needs) to woodworking and the other to industrial (presumably metal machining)? Is there better sealing of the parts to moisture, lubricants, etc? Or... ?



EDIT/ See post #13 , thanks bix. /EDIT

You have the correct idea. There have been numerous reports of problems related to jittery/jumpy/non-functional scales of this type. The issue appears to be the lack of sealing around the read head. Supporting this guess is the further reports of users restoring them by disassembling and cleaning the scales and reader heads.

That being said, the z-axis iGaging clone I installed on my Micro-Mark mill has been very reliable, and I intend to use the same type for the x- and y-axes too. But I will put a shield over them. 

I can't see putting a $600+ DRO unit on my $700 mill, but these DROs are inexpensive enough, and accurate enough for my purposes to be useful. I have destroyed enough parts from loosing track of the position of the cutter on the work piece to justify the investment.

Walt


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## Walt

itsme_Bernie said:


> Guys!  The cheap iGaging scales at 30% off at Grizzly right now!  I'm not a paid advertiser, but am so excited I just ordered a bunch!
> 
> I used cheap scales I modified (***** to drill), and really liked it already.
> 
> 
> Bernie



What I'm seeing is the T23013 24" scale is marked down from $45 to $29.95.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/T23013

 The claimed accuracy for this unit is +- 0.004" per 12", so it could be off by as much as 0.008". Certainly good enough for woodworking, and maybe some metalworking applications.

On the other hand, the T24362

http://www.grizzly.com/products/T24362

while not on sale, and costing $99.95, is claimed to have an accuracy of +-0.002" across the entire length. Note also that the shorter scales in this line are less expensive with equivalent or better claimed accuracy. The better ones are cheap enough for me to not find the sale item attractive, your needs may differ.

Walt


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## fretsman

I have the stainless scales that you pointed out from Grizzly, and yes, they are indeed worth the extras cost as compared to the black ones. They're accurate, and they don't turn off on you until you're ready to.

Again though, if your work is not that fussy, then the black ones are fine. 

Dave


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## Dunc1

While I am looking specifically at the stainless steel versions how does one size either version for a specific mill? From outside edge of the table to outside edge of the table (both X & Y dimensions)? My machine already has factory installed Z-axis readout. If the required dimension is between two offered sizes can the scale be cut? Dremel cut off wheel, fine-tooth hacksaw...?


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## tripletap3

I had one of the Grizzly I Gaging units on the Z axis of my 19" Jet drill press and it worked perfect. Was very accurate and repeatable. One of the nice things is about the I Gaging scales is they can be cut to size with no problem using a hack saw, dremel tool, ect. These scales must be magnetic which is what the high end DROs are using now. It is amazing to me how well that some of this cheap stuff is working these days.


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## Splat

FWIW, this thread should be moved the Machining Accessories or General Machinery forums. 


I agree with everything Bix wrote. I have the cheaper black Igaging units on my mill. They don't register movement that fast or precisely but probably good enough for us non-NASA guys.   I thought about using them on my Heavy 10 but I just don't know if I trust them enough to go with them again. My guess is the costlier AccuRemote units have a different reader/decoding chip and the scales are stainless. That's the only difference I would guess. But can the reso be that much better?


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## tripletap3

tripletap3 said:


> I had one of the Grizzly I Gaging units on the Z axis of my 19" Jet drill press and it worked perfect. Was very accurate and repeatable. One of the nice things is about the I Gaging scales is they can be cut to size with no problem using a hack saw, dremel tool, ect. These scales must be magnetic which is what the high end DROs are using now. It is amazing to me how well that some of this cheap stuff is working these days.



I also should have added that while it was great on my drill press, I wouldn't use it on my 9x32 mill or my lathe. It does have it's limitations.


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## Chas

Gentlemen
I have the G 07 04 mill and I have installed the stainlesssteel AcuuRemote DRO.  I don't wanna gettoo far ahead of myself  because I'mpreparing to post a new guy experience from purchase through a complete set upof the system.  But I do have a problem Iwould like to remedy asap.
I would like to install a Power Supply to eliminate thebatteries in the add on DRO System.
I'm familiar with electricity, ( not electronics) and I'mnot sure how to check or connect to the positive and negative terminals.  The batteries are three volts and Iam thinking that I should connect six volts DC to the respective terminals butI would be nice if someone could assure me that that's the right way togo.  The next problem would be connectingall three readouts to one Power Supply. Pardon my child's drawing of the rear of the digitalreadouts.  There is continuity between both positiveterminals then again both negative terminals. When I cross connect the probes of the multi meter I have no connectionbetween the upper right and lower left positive and negative terminals but themeter does show medium resistance between the upper left positive and the lowerright negative terminals.  Scroll down please----


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## bix

Chas said:


> Gentlemen
> ...AcuuRemote DRO...The batteries are three volts and I am thinking that I should connect six volts DC to the respective terminals... The next problem would be connecting all three readouts to one Power Supply.




I just checked one of my igaging displays. The batteries on it are wired in parallel, not series. That means you only want to connect to one of the battery locations, and with only 3 volts, not 6 volts. You can easily verify that your DRO is wired the same way by removing one of the batteries and operating with only one battery (doesn't matter which one). If the DRO works, it is wired the same as mine: batteries in parallel, 3 volts. 

These batteries, when new, are 3.4v, and if I were doing a battery replacement I'd go for the full 3.4v as I find the display contrast is better with a fresh battery. 

Running multiples from one supply: no problem at all. Just hook each of these up to your power supply.

Back to finding the supply: I looked at ebay for "3v dc adapter" and found several "wall warts", like the charger for your cell phone. Make certain that the one you buy is specified as "DC" and 3 volts. As for the current rating, the DROs take very little current and I doubt that it is possible to purchase a charger that provides too little current. The first ebay one I found (see below) is rated at 1 amp - that's probably enough for hundreds of the DRO readouts. If you have a choice, buy the smallest.

It is a little bit of a crap shoot to know just what voltage will really come out of these, but they are cheap, so if you get one that doesn't work out you can just pitch it. See for instance ebay item 140669436689, for $4 from Taiwan. If you get something like that, either get a matching connector from Radio Shack and wire that connector to your DRO system, or cut the connector off and wire directly. But be VERY careful to get plus to plus and minus to minus. Also, but sure to check the charger you get before actually connecting it to your DRO. Just plug it into the wall and measure the tip voltage to make certain it is (a) DC volts and (b) between 3 and 3.5 volts.

Connecting to the battery location: it seems it might be easy to come up with a fake battery with a couple wires that goes into the battery socket and connects to the outer ring connection and the bottom connection. Then the DRO would not be damaged by soldering directly to the battery connector. The wires could come out the back perhaps around a notch in the battery cover so that it would continue to function as well, in case you wanted to revert to real batteries.

Here's another way to do this: use a USB charger, such as ebay item 310499288944 for a buck. Get a USB cable and cut off the end that doesn't go into the charger, and with your voltmeter, find the two wires that have +5v between them. That's too much for the DRO, but we're going to reduce the voltage and get you a light to show that power is on as well:

Buy a 5mm white LED, such as ebay item 320878486780 ($1 for 10). Wire as shown below:



For the resistor, anything from 85 to 100 ohms is ok, and it uses little power so the power rating is not important. The White LED will have about 3.4 volts across it, so that is what regulates the 5volts from the USB adapter down to the 3.4 volts needed for the DRO. Again, the caveat here is to be careful and check both the output voltage and the polarity before connecting this to your DRO display.  The advantages of using the USB adapter approach are:
1) really cheap
2) you get an LED to show that power is applied (but of course you would know that anyway)
3) the LED makes a good regulator to ensure you don't get too much voltage into your DRO
The disadvantage of the USB adapter is that if the LED isn't connected for some reason, you would be applying 5 volts to your DRO instead of 3.4, and I don't know whether 5 volts would damage the DRO (I doubt it, but it could).

Good luck with this, and if you work out a fake battery to make the connection to the DRO, please publish that.

bix


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## bix

I should have added:

If your readout really is six volts (batteries in series instead of parallel), then it won't work on just one battery. In this case, you can find the plus to minus points that have nearly zero ohms between them. Connect to the *other* plus and minus points with your external power supply.

Instead of buying a three volt adapter as in my post above, buy a six volt DC adapter (see ebay item 280754754175). The USB/LED idea won't work if your DRO needs 6 volts.

bix

- - - Updated - - -

Last comment (I promise):

For those, like me, using batteries, buy them from ebay for less than $0.20 each, such as ebay item 260612665163. Compare that to $5-6 for one battery from Radio Shack or $2.50 at CVS. I buy in groups of 20 and store them in our garage refrigerator (which probably is't necessary - these batteries have very long shelf life).

bix


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## Uglydog

Fascinating thread!!
Sorry if this is is an off track question.
I am a NOOB, working on a conserving a Cincy Toolmaster 1B.
I respect and would appreciate a good DRO. No question about that. 
However, given the price and availability of old dial indicators I am wondering if I could make a dial indicator holder that would give me precision.
I understand that it would be limited by the distance the indicator could travel, and that the indicator only supplements the hand wheels.
I also understand that it would take some time to design and machine (darn, more time in the shop!). However, for a hobbyist, time in the shop is measured differently.
Ideas? criticism? 
Does anyone have better pics of such devices different than are what in the Cincy manual?


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## bix

Well, I just had to see if I could make an adapter to plug wires into the battery sockets on the DRO readout. I figured that the battery fits, so maybe I could hollow out the back of a battery and attach wires to the two battery faces, and then plug that assembly into the battery socket. This is all to avoid soldering directly to the battery connectors on the readout, to avoid damaging the readout itself in any way.

This is where I have to say: lithium is dangerous stuff. I'm still alive, but I make no warranty that doing the following won't hurt you. Be careful about heat, fumes and the stuff itself.

First, take a CR2032 battery and discharge it completely. One way to do that is to clip an alligator clip to it to connect both sides together. Let that sit for quite a while, at least a couple of hours. It will get hot, but that's about it. Check with a voltmeter that it is zero volts before going further.

Next, cut into the back. I started doing this on a mill. I didn't know what to expect inside. Here is the first result:




As I cut into the battery (from the "+" side), there was black stuff inside. A couple of times I got nice puffs of smoke and maybe a little light at the same time. The case didn't cut very well - the above photo is after sanding the face to get rid of burrs. I used an xacto knife to dig out all the black stuff I could, and used a brush and pcb flux remover to try to clean further. But there was still black stuff under the ledge I could not get at.

Next I needed to see if I could solder to the case. I don't know what the case is made of, but it is difficult to solder to. I ended up thoroughly scraping the area where I wanted solder balls, then applied a lot of flux and a very hot iron to make small solder balls on each face:



I attached wires, and pressed the connection on the + side down so it would present a more flush face, for closing the compartment lid:




But rats! it didn't work. I'm pretty sure it didn't work because there was still black stuff to be removed. So, I removed the wires and chucked this in a lathe to enlarge the hole, and then used the xacto knife to scrape out the remaining black stuff under the ledge, then reattached the wires:




I'm happy to say that this worked. So the secret is: get all the black stuff out of the battery case. It looks like a recess could be filed in the compartment cover to allow the wires to come out. The wires could come out in any other direction as well. Going the other way and coming out thru a notch in the cover might be best.

If I were doing this again, I'd probably make that hole in the back of the battery even larger so that very little lip was left, to allow more access for removing black stuff. Then I would try to solder the wire on the edge of the lip instead of on top, to make sure it doesn't interfere with the cover.

When doing this, use rosin core solder and electrical flux, not acid core solder. The wires can be quite small.

bix


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## Chas

BIX  -----   Thank you --- You saved the day, I was ready to try the 6v. Thanks for doing the research.  Your idea of reusing the batteries is great,I also think I might try to get lucky  if I can find the right size -- making a copper /rubber/copper, washersandwich. 

THANKS
Charlie


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## Chas

I checked my DRO is 3v.  The reason behind this is that someone on one of the other threads complained about the batteries going dead in the middle of a project.


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## Splat

Instead of ravaging the lithiums have you tried soldering thin-gauge wiring to the battery contacts on the circuit board? After that there's multiple ways of going to the PSU, either via a jack of some type you could make or direct soldering to the PSU wires. You don't need >15W gun to do this and it'd be safer and easier than messing with lithiums.


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## itsme_Bernie

Splat said:


> Instead of ravaging the lithiums have you tried soldering thin-gauge wiring to the battery contacts on the circuit board? After that there's multiple ways of going to the PSU, either via a jack of some type you could make or direct soldering to the PSU wires. You don't need >15W gun to do this and it'd be safer and easier than messing with lithiums.



That's what I was thinking of doing Splat- hooking up a wall-wart and a button of some kind in the scale to power it through the wall.




Bernie


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## bix

Chas said:


> The reason behind this is that someone on one of the other threads complained about the batteries going dead in the middle of a project.



Chas:

I've never had that happen. The display contrast starts to degrade long before the battery is dead. Whenever I see that starting to happen, I just replace the batteries. With the ebay pricing on bulk batteries, there is no need to run them until they are dead. Using this strategy, a pair of batteries lasts a small number of months, so I'd guess I'm spending a few bucks a year on DRO batteries (as opposed to a few bucks for *each* battery). I thought about the idea of external power, but decided I didn't want any extra wires running around to catch swarf.

bix


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## Chas

bix said:


> Chas:
> 
> I've never had that happen. The display contrast starts to degrade long before the battery is dead. Whenever I see that starting to happen, I just replace the batteries. With the ebay pricing on bulk batteries, there is no need to run them until they are dead. Using this strategy, a pair of batteries lasts a small number of months, so I'd guess I'm spending a few bucks a year on DRO batteries (as opposed to a few bucks for *each* battery). I thought about the idea of external power, but decided I didn't want any extra wires running around to catch swarf.
> 
> bix



Bix: The power supplies (2) are on the way--- two weeks to ship. ---- That should give me time to work out the battery substitute...


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## stupoty

Hello, as has been said the batteries are in parallel so it's just the voltage of one cell.

the easiest way for electronics newbies (that includes me as we are all always learning) :jester: to do it would be the use of a regulator, 

This is a 3 pin device , one pin is connected to supply ground, one to supply positive and like magic the desired voltage comes out the other pin.

hear is a link to a texas instruments one it cost about 35 pennies.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/linear-voltage-regulators/6616737/

i have linked to one that is rated at 0.5 amps , this would be with a heat sink, without one it will do about 1/3 of that.

it will output 3.3 volts with any dc voltage applied up to a maximum of 25 volts, so any cheep dc supply could be used, it will get hotter with a higher input voltage as it is just wasting some as heat to drop the voltage so closer is better i.e. 5-12 volts seems ok.

Also as someone else mentioned I would recommend soldering direct to the contact pads, you may need to use an abrasive to take the coating off of them as the solder may not adhere to the coating.

also carefull about the solder , newer electronics are lead free and so all fluxes and coatings used dont like lead solder much (experimentation is the only way to find out I find) although if you remove or scratch the coating either should work ok.

One regulator should be ok to run 3 or more as I would think they are very low current draw (a few milli amps) i have a real cheep digi vernier that Is very flaky so i will try to pull that apart and measure current draw.

Hope that all makes sense.

If you need a more detailed description let me know and i will try to do a neat drawing.

Stuart


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## Chas

Bix...  IT'S ALIVE>>>>> I think that I went way overboard with this one but it shure was fun. I used the power supply that you found. But instead of the batteries,,, I made a sandwich of 2 home made copper washers and a 1 plastic washer. The DRO read outs work great.
 I am working on the original post idea and will put it up soon (I hope).
Thanks again for the input.
Chas.


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## lens42

fretsman said:


> I have the stainless scales that you pointed out from Grizzly, and yes, they are indeed worth the extras cost as compared to the black ones. They're accurate, and they don't turn off on you until you're ready to.
> 
> Again though, if your work is not that fussy, then the black ones are fine.
> 
> Dave



I know i'm re-asking what you just said, but I want to be sure before ordering because this important detail is not mentioned in any product descriptions. Is it the case that the cheaper Grizzly/iGaging scales auto-turn-off and can do so in the middle of a job (but I presume not when moving), while the more expensive (approx $100) SS scales remain on until you manually shut them off?

If the above is true does this impact battery life? That may seem like a dumb question, but I find my Chinese calipers last about the same time, whether on or off, so I could see auto-turn-off not making a difference.


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## fretsman

lens42 said:


> I know i'm re-asking what you just said, but I want to be sure before ordering because this important detail is not mentioned in any product descriptions. Is it the case that the cheaper Grizzly/iGaging scales auto-turn-off and can do so in the middle of a job (but I presume not when moving), while the more expensive (approx $100) SS scales remain on until you manually shut them off?
> 
> If the above is true does this impact battery life? That may seem like a dumb question, but I find my Chinese calipers last about the same time, whether on or off, so I could see auto-turn-off not making a difference.



That is correct, I asked Grizzly directly and they informed me that the black igaging scales will indeed turn off with no activity from that axis. This was confirmed by others but unfortunately I can not remember how long until they turn off. I'm sure someone using them here will chime in on that.

The blue Accuremote scales stay on as I have accidentally left them on overnight anic:  I have actually not killed any of the batteries as of yet (even the one that was left on) and I'm sure I've put over 100 hours on these now.

Hope that helps-
Dave


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## nobog

Uglydog said:


> Fascinating thread!!
> Sorry if this is is an off track question.
> I am a NOOB, working on a conserving a Cincy Toolmaster 1B.
> I respect and would appreciate a good DRO. No question about that.
> However, given the price and availability of old dial indicators I am wondering if I could make a dial indicator holder that would give me precision.
> I understand that it would be limited by the distance the indicator could travel, and that the indicator only supplements the hand wheels.
> I also understand that it would take some time to design and machine (darn, more time in the shop!). However, for a hobbyist, time in the shop is measured differently.
> Ideas? criticism?
> Does anyone have better pics of such devices different than are what in the Cincy manual?



Already been done. Goggle _*Trav a dial*. _Its a dial indicator with a friction wheel - travel is unlimited.  The machinists where I worked used them for decades before the DRO became available.

_Jim

_


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## lens42

nobog said:


> Already been done. Goggle _*Trav a dial*. _Its a dial indicator with a friction wheel - travel is unlimited.  The machinists where I worked used them for decades before the DRO became available.
> 
> _Jim
> 
> _



The problem is that Trav a dials cost almost as much (or more) than a decent quality Chinese DRO. To the OP, there are lot of cute ways to mount a standard dial indicator on a mil or lathe. Some Google work should get you pictures. One set up that I always though was clever was on the little German Deckel FP1 mills, where they had narrow trays on sliders along the axis on which you could stack up gauges blocks. Combined with an adjustable stop and/or and indicator mount could get you a precise stop or indication at any size.


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## davidh

fretsman said:


> That is correct, I asked Grizzly directly and they informed me that the black igaging scales will indeed turn off with no activity from that axis. This was confirmed by others but unfortunately I can not remember how long until they turn off. I'm sure someone using them here will chime in on that. . . . . . . . .
> 
> Hope that helps-
> Dave



my black igage ones do not turn off themselves, in fact two days on and it still has battery    and when  turned it off and turned it on a bit later it retained the last number. . . more experimenting  to do . . .


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## KBeitz

I was the installer at Grizzly tools for DRO's. Check out the Newall DRO's. 
If I could afford it that's what I would buy. This is what we put on the 
new Southbend lathes.


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## astjp2

I have a Newall DRO for my Rockwell 11 and I am looking at one for my Jet BD1325R, I think that they are one of the most robust systems on the market.  I installed one on a Jet mill drill at work, once I figured it out, it was easy to install and exceptionally accurate.  I don't think that most hobbyists need a production quality DRO, but I really like how easy they are to install.  Tim


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## KBeitz

Not only easy to install but not near as fragile as the glass slides.


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