# Hypothetically, but seriously, Clausing 4912 or Logan 10 840?



## sdy5001 (May 2, 2021)

In this thought exercise/potential reality, imagine that most everything else is absolutely the same like the drive train, the condition, the tooling, the price, etc...everything relevant is equal in this alternate reality and you're given the choice between a Clausing 4912 and a Logan 10 840...which would you go with and why? My instinctual visceral inclination is the Logan, even though I know that their rep can sometimes lean more towards mass produced hobby/toy than precision machine, they undoubtedly produced some quality lathes and at a glance, the 840 seems to be one of them.  It simply looks more substantial than the Clausing, almost like a SB heavy 10 or something, that can at least be shimmed and adjusted back to true if it has twist or warp in the bed ways, vs the whole cabinet of the Clausing being one unit. That may  be wildly inaccurate as I don't have any experience with either, but from my experience with machines of either 'style'...they both come very well equipped, but it seems that regarding accessories and parts Logan parts are harder to come by and Clausing's are quite expensive....Anyway, I am eager to hear any feedback that anyone with experience has, and as always, very grateful for this whole community! Thank you very much!


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## Aaron_W (May 2, 2021)

According to the list I have the Logan 840 is a 10x24 turret lathe, did you mean 820 or perhaps somebody put a normal tailstock on the 840? The 800 series are flat belt drive with a 25/32 spindle bore.
From what I can find the Clausing 4912 is a 10x36 cabinet model with an under drive and is a more modern design with a 1-1/16" spindle bore.

Assuming the Logan isn't a turret lathe, they are solid lathes which is why they are popular, but Clausing is also a good brand.
Two very different forms, the Logan being a bench or leg mount with the motor located behind, the Clausing is a cabinet model with an under drive.
A 12" difference between centers is significant as well as the larger spindle bore on the Clausing.
Parts are not cheap for either, but both companies still offer support for both machines, although Logan parts availability is better. You can buy almost any part you need for a Logan, but they are not cheap.

This is more than just a choice between two brands, but personally I'd probably be favoring the Clausing because it seems to offer more. If space is a concern the Logan is the more compact and will be easier to move.

I'll also add if I was looking at a 10x36, I would seriously be thinking about a 12x36. To me the real benefit of a 10" lathe is the smaller form it takes with typically 22-24" between centers. Once you are at 36" between centers size probably isn't a major factor and you gain quite a bit going to a 12" lathe, more weight, bigger spindle bore, more power etc.


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## sdy5001 (May 2, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> According to the list I have the Logan 840 is a 10x24 turret lathe, did you mean 820 or perhaps somebody put a normal tailstock on the 840? The 800 series are flat belt drive with a 25/32 spindle bore.
> From what I can find the Clausing 4912 is a 10x36 cabinet model with an under drive and is a more modern design with a 1-1/16" spindle bore.
> 
> Assuming the Logan isn't a turret lathe, they are solid lathes which is why they are popular, but Clausing is also a good brand.
> ...


ok, thank you, very valid points. let me see if I can upload some pictures....


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## Nutfarmer (May 2, 2021)

Classing has been good about support of the older lathes, but can be expensive on some parts of they have them.


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## markba633csi (May 2, 2021)

Agree with Aaron on all, but I would be on the lookout for worn spindle bearings. You don't want to replace on either machine.  
Both good lathes though.  Personally I like the Logan 12" models but hard to find in good shape
-Mark


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## Nogoingback (May 3, 2021)

Without a doubt, the Clausing.

Larger spindle bore.
Flame hardened ways.
Tapered roller bearings in spindle: probably easier to obtain than the single source Logan bearings.
More feeds and threads.
Greater swing over cross slide.
Wider bed.
More cross slide travel.
Spindle drive belt can be changed without pulling the spindle.
More powerful motor as standard.



			https://www.normanmachinetool.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Clausing-4900-Series-Lathe-Specifications-Literature-1.pdf
		




			http://lathe.com/catalogs/Logan_Lathe_Catalog_1944.pdf


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## mattthemuppet2 (May 3, 2021)

what he ^ said. The Logan is more like a light 10, the Clausing more like a Heavy 10, but a modern version.


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## sdy5001 (May 4, 2021)

Nogoingback said:


> Without a doubt, the Clausing.
> 
> Larger spindle bore.
> Flame hardened ways.
> ...


Humph, well since you put it like that, it seems there's really isn't much of a choice to be made is there, ha.  It's kind of funny though, but I think that my biggest hang-up with the stinkin' Clausing is the way the machine looks...my shop is a joyous space that is setup primarily to try and turn some passions into profits, or at least enough to cover the rent and justify keeping the space anyway, and is subsequently full of old (oddly enough almost unanimously American stuff from the1930's-50's) beautiful machinery that's all been mechanically rehab'd to be reliable and accurate, but not much further than that, and if I can make this Clausing happen it's going to be the fancy new pariah with its square shoulders and stamped steel looking exterior. It's funny how attached some of us can become to the supposedly soulless-by-nature machines and tools we surround ourselves with, but to me anyway, the likelihood of that bond and its strength seems to be inversely proportional to the machine's age/quality with heavy smooth old machines becoming trustworthy revered friends and the tinny throw-a-way tools today their contrary foe....


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## Tim9 (May 4, 2021)

I love my Clausing. In addition to all else pointed out above, the Clausing has a nice Chuck, Steady rest and a follower rest. Looks like a nice lathe.


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## Aaron_W (May 4, 2021)

sdy5001 said:


> Humph, well since you put it like that, it seems there's really isn't much of a choice to be made is there, ha.  It's kind of funny though, but I think that my biggest hang-up with the stinkin' Clausing is the way the machine looks...my shop is a joyous space that is setup primarily to try and turn some passions into profits, or at least enough to cover the rent and justify keeping the space anyway, and is subsequently full of old (oddly enough almost unanimously American stuff from the1930's-50's) beautiful machinery that's all been mechanically rehab'd to be reliable and accurate, but not much further than that, and if I can make this Clausing happen it's going to be the fancy new pariah with its square shoulders and stamped steel looking exterior. It's funny how attached some of us can become to the supposedly soulless-by-nature machines and tools we surround ourselves with, but to me anyway, the likelihood of that bond and its strength seems to be inversely proportional to the machine's age/quality with heavy smooth old machines becoming trustworthy revered friends and the tinny throw-a-way tools today their contrary foe....



I get that, some of the late vintage iron looks very modern. I have a 1978 (43 years old) Logan / Powermatic. It is legitimately vintage USA, but lacks the cool art deco styling of older machines and could easily be mistaken for an import until you try to move it (about 3x the weight of a similar sized import).


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## Nogoingback (May 4, 2021)

sdy5001 said:


> Humph, well since you put it like that, it seems there's really isn't much of a choice to be made is there, ha.  It's kind of funny though, but I think that my biggest hang-up with the stinkin' Clausing is the way the machine looks...my shop is a joyous space that is setup primarily to try and turn some passions into profits, or at least enough to cover the rent and justify keeping the space anyway, and is subsequently full of old (oddly enough almost unanimously American stuff from the1930's-50's) beautiful machinery that's all been mechanically rehab'd to be reliable and accurate, but not much further than that, and if I can make this Clausing happen it's going to be the fancy new pariah with its square shoulders and stamped steel looking exterior. It's funny how attached some of us can become to the supposedly soulless-by-nature machines and tools we surround ourselves with, but to me anyway, the likelihood of that bond and its strength seems to be inversely proportional to the machine's age/quality with heavy smooth old machines becoming trustworthy revered friends and the tinny throw-a-way tools today their contrary foe....


I understand your point of view: I like the old stuff as well, and my lathe is a Logan 200 which is pretty close to the 
machine you posted above.  But the Clausing is a better machine, and if you want to make a profit with it, that matters.
I have no experience with Clausings, but I've never heard anyone complain about them being tinny or low quality.


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## mmcmdl (May 4, 2021)

Depending on what you're looking for , I have a 5917 12" Clausing down here that I'll sell . I travel thru Scranton all the time and can throw it on my trailer . And as far as which I would choose , the Clausing hands down , even if it's not mine . This comes from a lifelong machinist .


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## Tim9 (May 6, 2021)

I’ve got a South Bend 9A WW-II vintage. It’s the long bed with a taper attachment and flat belts. A nice lathe that I like to use. But it’s a much less ridgid machine than my Clausing. I do like having two lathes because its saved my butt a few times. Especially when I need to repair something on one of them. And even though the Clausing is only 24” between centers while the SB is 36” between centers…. The Clausing is so far superior. If I had a 36” Clausing , I probably would think about moving the SB into storage because space is at a premium in my workshop.


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## Ultradog MN (May 6, 2021)

sdy5001 said:


> Humph, well since you put it like that, it seems there's really isn't much of a choice to be made is there, ha.  It's kind of funny though, but I think that my biggest hang-up with the stinkin' Clausing is the way the machine looks...my shop is a joyous space that is setup primarily to try and turn some passions into profits, or at least enough to cover the rent and justify keeping the space anyway, and is subsequently full of old (oddly enough almost unanimously American stuff from the1930's-50's) beautiful machinery that's all been mechanically rehab'd to be reliable and accurate, but not much further than that, and if I can make this Clausing happen it's going to be the fancy new pariah with its square shoulders and stamped steel looking exterior. It's funny how attached some of us can become to the supposedly soulless-by-nature machines and tools we surround ourselves with, but to me anyway, the likelihood of that bond and its strength seems to be inversely proportional to the machine's age/quality with heavy smooth old machines becoming trustworthy revered friends and the tinny throw-a-way tools today their contrary foe....


I would likely take the Clausing. If for no other reason than it is a gear head.
But I do get the aesthetics deal.  
Modern, strictly utilitarian  machines just don't have the innate beauty of the old stuff when that which met the eye was crafted to be more than just practical.
I recently purchased a Monarch 12CK. 
It is was lovingly formed and sculpted by an artist's hand.  It is art. 
The handles, hand wheels and knobs alone weigh more than many modern lathes do. 
When I see it I think of a pretty, buxom girl that I'd like to take for a romp.


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## Nogoingback (May 6, 2021)

Maybe you should paint the lathe red and pink...


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## sdy5001 (May 28, 2021)

Well, just as an update, I got them both. Ha. The clausing is the machine to have and grow into undoubtedly, but the Logan is in top shape, with a vfd, decent qctp and tons of holders, tools for days, 2 chucks, etc and priced as if by a scrap yard by weight so it only made sense to make it a two-fer kind of day. Anyhow, I can't thank you all enough. I am beyond grateful for your time and wisdom and patience, and your alacrity to altruism, so thank you again...

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## Nogoingback (May 28, 2021)

Congrats!  Now lets see those pictures.


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## Ultradog MN (May 28, 2021)

That's good news.
Congrats!
That is how I got my lathe - on a two fer.
Kept the one I wanted and sold the other.
Made my out of pocket pretty low.
Would have loved to keep them both but space constraints made that impractical.
Maybe you could keep them both?


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## sdy5001 (May 28, 2021)

Haha that's certainly an option, but I sold a really great Stark no. 4 a little prematurely to pick up this other mill and I'm regretting that choice so ideally hopefully I can find another Stark no 4 or maybe by some miracle a 4 1/2 as an alternative little fun show piece, but how remarkable is this little Barker? The guy bought it new in 1953 and has all of the original everything and apparently treasured and cherished it every day since...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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