# Question About Atlas Mills



## cib (May 9, 2016)

I'm going to take the plunge and get a mill in the next couple of months. I've nearly picked up some recently but other family issues came up and I missed out.

My question is how capable I'd an atlas mill and is the vertical attachment worth getting with it?

I'm considering a grizzly g0704 mill but I can get a functional atlas horizontal mill with vertical head for similar price.

Most of the items I make are knife related as I'm a bladesmith but I'd like to do other things/projects as well.

Any input is appreciated.


----------



## Andre (May 9, 2016)

Deleted


----------



## Green Frog (May 9, 2016)

I'm a newbie (I've been at it for about 20 years, so I have 1 year of experience 20 times.)  IMHO,  a lathe is a much more important purchase to start with than the mill.  In fact, I would get a good drill press first, then the lathe, and finally the mill.  Also your tasks and skills will determine which equipment you need and when, but this would be my general expectation.


----------



## 34_40 (May 9, 2016)

I'm sorry , but nowhere in his post do I see any mention of a lathe!


----------



## Steve Shannon (May 9, 2016)

cib said:


> I'm going to take the plunge and get a mill in the next couple of months. I've nearly picked up some recently but other family issues came up and I missed out.
> 
> My question is how capable I'd an atlas mill and is the vertical attachment worth getting with it?
> 
> ...


The Atlas mill can be very capable. I don't know what the capabilities are of the vertical attachment offered with the mill you're looking at.


----------



## oldboy1950 (May 9, 2016)

i have an Atlas horizontal mill, nice machine but my grizzly G0720R is much more versatile.


----------



## Andre (May 9, 2016)

34_40 said:


> I'm sorry , but nowhere in his post do I see any mention of a lathe!


Oops, my bad! I thought he said an Atlas lathe with a milling attachment.


----------



## cib (May 9, 2016)

This would be used for minor mill work shaping and flattening. I'd like to do drill work as well and free up my drill if possible, my drilling is knife handles etc..


----------



## 34_40 (May 9, 2016)

I have a Clausing 8520 vertical as well as an Atlas horizontal.   They each have a place.  But, if I could only have one, I'd take the 8520. 
But I'm really curious about the little atlas being converted into a vertical with this attachment.    I have no experience with this conversion either, but I know someone must and be a member here.


----------



## 34_40 (May 9, 2016)

cib said:


> This would be used for minor mill work shaping and flattening. I'd like to do drill work as well and free up my drill if possible, my drilling is knife handles etc..


 
For flattening it should work very well. You can set it up with some pretty wide cutters too..


----------



## Bob Korves (May 9, 2016)

I am not familiar with vertical heads for that mill, but it is likely there is no quill for feeding.  If that is so, all vertical feeding would need to be done with the knee.  It works, but is not a very sensitive drilling method.


----------



## wa5cab (May 10, 2016)

CIB,

As a general statement, a horizontal mill is better at reducing the thickness of relatively large surface area parts than is a vertical mill.  It can run more than one cutter at a time.  It would be the preferred method of cutting a long keyway into a shaft or a long key sticking out of one surface of a flat piece.  Etc.  On the other hand, it isn't particularly good at making holes.  Or cutting dove tails.

With a vertical attachment, you can drill holes and most other vertical mill operations but the vertical clearance between the table and the cutter is apt to be more limited than with a comparable size vertical mill.  There is a setup time penalty in switching from horizontal to vertical mode.  And as Bob mentioned, none of the vertical attachments for the Atlas that I have seen have a quill.  You might be able to operate a small tapping head but not very conveniently and only on relatively thin parts.

And in any case, for routine hole drilling or tapping, the drill press would be usually be preferred to either type mill.


----------



## Green Frog (May 10, 2016)

For general flattening and some mill-shaping the Atlas will probably do you quite well.  However, by the time you switch back and forth to the vertical head, you won't save much if any time from going to your existing drill (press??)  If ALL you want to do with the mill is flatten some surfaces and maybe cut some simple shapes (grooves, dovetails, etc)  you might look into a vertical mill with a fly cutter (a decent mill should turn a 3" fly cutter, anyway) and tooling for drilling, boring, and end milling that can be deployed by quickly and simply changing the tool in the spindle if you wish to keep your work in the same holder and stay on one machine. 

Historically, I believe horizontal mills predate verticals and of course then as now you can figure work-arounds for whatever tool or machine you want to use, but from a practical standpoint, I'm not sure you would get the versatility to do the tasks you mention with a horizontal mill, Atlas or other brand that you would with a vertical.  Again, this is JMHO, and YMMV.

Froggie

PS  I have an Atlas MFC and love it, but am trying to respond to your question as asked.  Maybe with more information about what other tooling you have or what other tasks you foresee, I could be more helpful.


----------



## cib (May 10, 2016)

It is that style of vertical milling attachment. This is a new remake of an older style, I forget the name the guy said it was. 

Honestly I'm leaning towards the newer Grizzly but I love older equipment if it can be useful and fill my needs. Just don't have enough experience with the milling side of things to really know what would be the best answer.


----------



## Green Frog (May 10, 2016)

Yep,  it's pretty much a copy of the old Marvin vertical conversion.  It's a fine unit for what it is but it would be fairly awkward for drilling since the lack of a quill means you have to crank up the whole table every time you drill a new hole then crank it back down to move your work piece.  I do plan on adding one to my MFC at some time in the future, but I'll still have a really heavy duty drill press over in the corner.  I hate to talk up the Grizzly over my beloved Atlas, but for the job you describe, I've got to be realistic.


----------



## cjtoombs (May 10, 2016)

First, the G0704 is really in a different size class than the Atlas, so with the choice being between them, the G0704 will definitely be the better choice.  One of the points brought up against the Atlas mill is the lack of quill, but while the 0704 has one, it has no way to tilt the head, which is one area where the quill can really shine like it does on a Bridgeport (drilling holes at an angle, spot facing at an angle, etc.).  You get the same versatility for drilling with a drill press and xy table as you do with the G0704.  The Atlas (normally) has a power feed, which is an add on for any of the import small mills (and an expensive one, at that).  Power feed is especially nice if you are cutting steel with a small cutter and really need to feed at an exceptionally slow speed, which is hard to do by hand. While the Atlas was on the low end of the machine tool quality scale when it was built (it was aimed at the hobbyist crowd), it is still head and shoulders above Chinese hobbyist machine tool quality, as the expectation for quality has changed since the Atlases were being built.


----------



## wa5cab (May 10, 2016)

Without actually weighing in on the Atlas versus Grizzly issue, except to say that for a fair price comparison you need to price the Grizzly with power table feed, I'll mention that Joel's Marvin equivalent has a 2MT and drawbar spindle whereas all of the Marvin's I've seen had a threaded nose.  I think that Joel also made at least one unit (that he photographed) in R8 and maybe one in 3MT.


----------



## Green Frog (May 10, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> Without actually weighing in on the Atlas versus Grizzly issue, except to say that for a fair price comparison you need to price the Grizzly with power table feed, I'll mention that Joel's Marvin equivalent has a 2MT and drawbar spindle whereas all of the Marvin's I've seen had a threaded nose.  I think that Joel also made at least one unit (that he photographed) in R8 and maybe one in 3MT.



Yes, he has recently advertised all three sizes on flea-Bay.  It seems that with the Atlas having a #2MT taper, it would be advantageous to get the same on the vertical conversion.


----------



## CluelessNewB (May 10, 2016)

In 1954 the Atlas milling machine sold in the Sears catalog for $390, this was the base machine with no motor or cabinet.  

In today's (2016) dollar that would be equivalent to about $3452!


----------



## cjtoombs (May 10, 2016)

CluelessNewB said:


> In 1954 the Atlas milling machine sold in the Sears catalog for $390, this was the base machine with no motor or cabinet.
> 
> In today's (2016) dollar that would be equivalent to about $3452!



I have a 1939 catalog, the first year for the Atlas mill, I believe.  I did the inflation adjustment on that and it was about 5000 today.  so it had gone down quite a bit by 1954.  I still think it would be way more expensive to build today than an equivelant size Chinese mini mill.  It had power feed with the Change-0-Matic and all the gearing for that plus back gears and pulleys and countershafts for multiple speeds.  Way more complicated than todays mini mill.


----------



## cib (May 10, 2016)

If I had the room I could get a functional bridgeport for nearly the same price range but I don't so these are my compromises. I will say I'm just not familiar with what's out there to know what else to look for, this is what I've seen come up near my area in my price range. 

I know the atlas won't be ideal for drilling but figured for bigger less precise holes I drill it would still likely work ok. Didn't think about cranking the table and no quil though I should have. The atlas mills I am looking at do have a power feed and that's a big plus in my decision over the grizzly. 

I'm a bit concerned about cost as now I have tooling for the veritas and horizontal aspects of the mill to get.




CluelessNewB said:


> In 1954 the Atlas milling machine sold in the Sears catalog for $390, this was the base machine with no motor or cabinet.
> 
> In today's (2016) dollar that would be equivalent to about $3452!


----------



## wa5cab (May 11, 2016)

You really need a drill press, anyway.  

On the subject of tooling cost, I long ago figured that I had spent more on tooling and accessories for my 3996 than I paid for the lathe brand new.  I haven't really started acquiring tooling for the MFA as I don't yet have it close to running but don't expect it to be any different.


----------

