# Low profile vise?



## ttabbal (Oct 13, 2019)

I tried aluminum on my CNC router. It worked well, other than the bit getting gummed up and breaking once. A different one worked well until the part moved on me. So I would like to make a low profile vise. I'm leaning towards a two piece type. I have seen a few designs out there, but I thought I'd ask here in case someone has tried one they like or don't like. Total Z travel is about 5", so normal mill vises are a bit large. The table has t-slots for mounting, so I should be able to adapt most mounting styles.


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 13, 2019)

Maybe this one   ??


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## ttabbal (Oct 13, 2019)

Norseman C.B. said:


> Maybe this one   ??



That looks like a nice setup. Easy to read drawings as well, thanks for posting it.


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## C-Bag (Oct 13, 2019)

I like that one a LOT. Thanks for posting that C.B. 

The only thing I'd change is the adjustable jaw should be way thicker IMHO. at least as thick as the stationary jaw. I'm a big fan of mounting right to table. It improved the accuracy of my old shaper tremendously. I made a couple of different backstops AND used toe clamps which I found used lot of 6 different sizes on eBay for less than I could have gotten one for. They are super low clearance and because of the design totally counteract the lift that usually happens when clamping a vise. That is effectively stopped I would think by the guide pins in the vise C.B. posted. The other cool thing about toe clamps is you can place them all around the work.


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## spumco (Oct 14, 2019)

A tricky thing about two-piece vises bolted to a table is that under heavy clamping pressure they can distort the table.  If your router has an aluminum T-slot table that may be a problem.  If you're clamping small stuff lightly, no problem.  

Also consider machining some steps directly in to the vise jaws.  Saves sticking parallels in for thin work.

Have a look at the Saunders Machine Works ModVise.  Uses Pitbull & Talon Grips clamps for hold-downs - no need to turn a traditional lead screw.  Also has built-in (sort-of) parallels, and you can tighten the Pitbulls individually and not worry about the adjustable jaw in the attached DWG  flexing.

You'll probably need to modify the basic design to match your T-slot dimensions but I bet it would be pretty handy.


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## spumco (Oct 14, 2019)

Home-brew version:


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## C-Bag (Oct 14, 2019)

Very cool. I've not used Pitbulls or Talons but knowing John he wouldn't use something that's not effective.

That looks like a very worthwhile setup, thanks for posting.


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## ttabbal (Oct 14, 2019)

I'll check out that one as well, thanks!


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 14, 2019)

I agree with you on the movable jaw thickness C-Bag, and when I make one for myself I will change
it to my liking,  mass = rigidity as we all should know...........................


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## T Bredehoft (Oct 15, 2019)

I remember during  my appretice days I was encouraged to try  a low profile vise. Because I was depending on        friction between the vise jaws and the table, I  couldn't get it to hold tight enough to keep the work from moving.  I was assured that low profile vises have that problem.


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## C-Bag (Oct 15, 2019)

You have a point. The other thing the mod vise has that should be included in the vise that C.B posted is the wedge shape to the hold down part of the of vise body and back plate. The TeCo toe clamps I got off eBay have the hold down slots ramped. If you don't have the bolt at the bottom of the ramp, they slide. But if at the bottom of the ramp it wedges itself as you tighten the clamp to the part and doesn't budge. Now that I think of it none of the two piece vises have that wedge ramp the mod vise has.........good eye!


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## spumco (Oct 15, 2019)

The wedge angles can be done using a 3D step down if you don't feel like setting up an angle vise or sine bars.  A fine stepover results in some pseudo-serrations (see mine) that grip quite well but don't interfere with fine adjustment.


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## C-Bag (Oct 15, 2019)

I'm not the sharpest guy but it seems to me the steps would not give wedge effect that mod vise has or the TeCo toe clamps have.


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## Toolmaker51 (Oct 15, 2019)

My .02¢; I don't know width of slots in toe clamps. But if there is room for commercial [heat-treated 60Rc] self aligning washers the clamping will increase markedly. If they don't get some W1 water hardening tool steel in diameter that does fit, your lathe radius attachment and little work you'll have home brewed equivalents.
Here's a descriptive enough link. Ignore the pricing, there is a wide range.




__





						self aligning washers - Google Search
					





					www.google.com


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## C-Bag (Oct 15, 2019)

Those are some cool washers fer sure TM. But I would guess it's going to depend on what the angle is of the clamp ramp on the vise. In looking at those washers there is obviously only so far they can go before the bolt would hit the side of the base of the washer no? On the TeCo toe clamps the slot is just big enough for the socket head bolt to fit into so I don't think there's any room for washers at all.

The other thing I noticed is I got stuck thinking of mounting on t-slots which my mill, lathe and shaper have. I don't have tooling plate like Spumco has so you don't necessarily have worry about slippage as with a t-slot.


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## spumco (Oct 15, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> I'm not the sharpest guy but it seems to me the steps would not give wedge effect that mod vise has or the TeCo toe clamps have.


If the steps are about 0.005" tall/wide and made with a ball-nose endmill it works just like a flat-surface wedge.  The clamp bar has a matching fine serration pattern on the underside.

Better view of mine below.  This was all machined in the flat position.


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## spumco (Oct 15, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> I don't have tooling plate like Spumco has so you don't necessarily have worry about slippage as with a t-slot.


Slippage might be a problem on the fixed jaw but is unlikley on the adjustable jaw.  The wedge action will tend to tighten the adjustable end's grip on the table if subjected to side/skidding forces.

Plus there is quite a bit of surface area in contact with the table, unlike the typical brass hex cam-action clamps or wedge-style toe clamps.  The anti-sliding grip could be enhanced with a bit of sandpaper between the table and the vise jaws.  Raising the vise sections on some thin paper wouldn't hurt the repeatability/positioning as the parts sit on floating parallels (which should not be on paper, of course).


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## C-Bag (Oct 15, 2019)

spumco said:


> If the steps are about 0.005" tall/wide and made with a ball-nose endmill it works just like a flat-surface wedge.  The clamp bar has a matching fine serration pattern on the underside.
> 
> Better view of mine below.  This was all machined in the flat position.
> View attachment 303932
> View attachment 303933


Interesting. I would call them scallops more than serrations. Whatever, I'm glad you clarified that though! I would think that would make several little ramps between the vise and the clamp plate and hold really good. But that's just a WAG. But once again victory and failure are all in the little details that can easily escape attention.


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## spumco (Oct 16, 2019)

Yea, 'serrations' might be generous.  Either way, these don't take fussy setups to make.


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