# Leveling and aligning a new 1440 - New guy dumb questions.



## LVLAaron (Feb 12, 2022)

After setting up my 1440 (https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pm1440gt-is-in-the-shop.97814/page-8) I'm now working on leveling and aligning.

* Tailstock alignment was fairly easy.
* Spindle runout was barely measurable with a 10ths indicator. Maybe just under half a tenth. Maybe less. 

To level the bed I used this level (https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/69017267?rItem=69017267) and just placed it on top of the V ways on both ends and worked the leveling feet until I got it dead nuts on both ends. Let it sit for a while, got it dead nuts again. 


I put a 12" 1.75 round bar in the 4 jaw and turned 10 inches (2 inches in chuck) - Taper as measured with my Mitutoyo QuantuMike from one end of the cut to the other is .0008 (small end was at the chuck)

Should I be happy with 8 tenths over 10 inches? Will I end up chasing my tail in circles if I try and make it better?


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## erikmannie (Feb 12, 2022)

LVLAaron said:


> After setting up my 1440 (https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pm1440gt-is-in-the-shop.97814/page-8) I'm now working on leveling and aligning.
> 
> * Tailstock alignment was fairly easy.
> * Spindle runout was barely measurable with a 10ths indicator. Maybe just under half a tenth. Maybe less.
> ...



You should be ecstatic over 8 tenths in 10 inches!! I don’t think you should touch anything else.


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## LVLAaron (Feb 12, 2022)

erikmannie said:


> You should be ecstatic over 8 tenths in 10 inches!! I don’t think you should touch anything else.



OK I will be! haha. I've waited a long time for this machine and have been really stressing out over getting it set up. I'll have a beer and a nap now!


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## Firebrick43 (Feb 12, 2022)

Depends on the work.  Most work that is good, very few old lathes with wear would have issues doing better.  I would use the lathe, and learn.  Typically things break in and need adjustment again with some use.  Put it on your calendar for 6 months from now and do it then

Also many things, like tail stock ridgidity and center style/quality  can impart issues with getting it dead nuts..  

The key to adjusting push pull screws for offsets is to get close (like under a .001) with lite to moderate pressure on each of the screws.  Don't loosen the opposing screw at the point of taking out .0001's , just apply more pressure to the other one.


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## Aukai (Feb 12, 2022)

You have been on too many other sites, there are no dumb questions on this site. It's only dumb if you don't ask it.


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## LVLAaron (Feb 12, 2022)

Firebrick43 said:


> Depends on the work.  Most work that is good, very few old lathes with wear would have issues doing better.  I would use the lathe, and learn.  Typically things break in and need adjustment again with some use.  Put it on your calendar for 6 months from now and do it then



Ultimately it's for chambering rifle barrels. I am sure I have 6 months of just learning the machine and tooling before I expect to make anything that doesn't go in the recycle bin.


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## Beckerkumm (Feb 12, 2022)

You should be able to take much of the .0008 out with the tailstock.  Your numbers are very good.  The chuck itself could cause more variation even if the spindle was -0-.  Dave


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## addertooth (Feb 12, 2022)

You should be quite happy with those numbers.  Normally you do a double ring test  (one cut near the chuck, one cut near the tailstock), as a long and continuous cut warms things up, and you can read a small shift due to thermal expansion.  You may discover that your actual accuracy is higher than 8 tenths.


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## LVLAaron (Feb 12, 2022)

addertooth said:


> You should be quite happy with those numbers.  Normally you do a double ring test  (one cut near the chuck, one cut near the tailstock), as a long and continuous cut warms things up, and you can read a small shift due to thermal expansion.  You may discover that your actual accuracy is higher than 8 tenths.



That's what I was aiming to do, I was going to put a gutter down the shaft. But after my last cleanup pass (was some nasty cutoff I got on ebay) I measured 8 tenths and came inside for a lunch break. Good info though!


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## Firebrick43 (Feb 12, 2022)

LVLAaron said:


> Ultimately it's for chambering rifle barrels. I am sure I have 6 months of just learning the machine and tooling before I expect to make anything that doesn't go in the recycle bin.


Well, I assume by the lathe you have you are going to chamber with the barrel in the headstock(ie spiders and a ground bore rod)  If so, with good chambering reamers and a floating holder what you are seeing is immaterial


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## LVLAaron (Feb 12, 2022)

Firebrick43 said:


> Well, I assume by the lathe you have you are going to chamber with the barrel in the headstock(ie spiders and a ground bore rod)  If so, with good chambering reamers and a floating holder what you are seeing is immaterial



Exactly


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## Dlloyd (Feb 12, 2022)

LVLAaron said:


> After setting up my 1440 (https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pm1440gt-is-in-the-shop.97814/page-8) I'm now working on leveling and aligning.
> 
> * Tailstock alignment was fairly easy.
> * Spindle runout was barely measurable with a 10ths indicator. Maybe just under half a tenth. Maybe less.
> ...


Sounds pretty good to me. 
BTW, I am curious how long you had to wait to get your lathe?  I ordered my 1440GT last October and they gave me a mid February date. They now saying mid March to April. So originally 4 months now 5 to 6 months.  
I just want to know how long other folks are waiting. 
thanks, David


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## LVLAaron (Feb 12, 2022)

Dlloyd said:


> Sounds pretty good to me.
> BTW, I am curious how long you had to wait to get your lathe?  I ordered my 1440GT last October and they gave me a mid February date. They now saying mid March to April. So originally 4 months now 5 to 6 months.
> I just want to know how long other folks are waiting.
> thanks, David



9 months. I ordered in March 2021. To be fair, it was in several shipping log jams that caused most of the delay


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## Dlloyd (Feb 12, 2022)

LVLAaron said:


> 9 months. I ordered in March 2021. To be fair, it was in several shipping log jams that caused most of the delay


Oh my!  I hope mine is not that long but I bet it will be. I really didn’t want to wait but I believe it is the better choice for lathes in this size and price range.


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## silence dogood (Feb 12, 2022)

Think of it this way. A machinist square to be called a machinist square must be accurate within .0002" per inch. You are way within that.


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## jbolt (Feb 16, 2022)

A couple of thoughts:

At 10" stick-out of a 1.75" bar you are near 6x the diameter. A good rule of thumb is 3 diameters max before supporting the end with a center. I would expect some deflection with that much unsupported. 

Whenever I do alignment adjustments or high precision work it is always with the machine warmed up. 20-30 min at a medium rpm. A cold spindle will behave different than when warm. 

The alignment can creep over time so it is always good practice to verify before doing high precision work.


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## mikey (Feb 16, 2022)

LVLAaron said:


> I put a 12" 1.75 round bar in the 4 jaw and turned 10 inches (2 inches in chuck) - Taper as measured with my Mitutoyo QuantuMike from one end of the cut to the other is .0008 (small end was at the chuck)
> 
> Should I be happy with 8 tenths over 10 inches? Will I end up chasing my tail in circles if I try and make it better?


What you are telling us here is that your headstock is skewed by 0.0008" over 10". Accordingly, any leveling adjustments or tailstock alignment maneuvers will also be off. 

Since the small end is at the chuck, the headstock needs to be tweaked in a CCW direction.

Is it necessary? Up to you but if you're going to be working with precision assemblies then it might be worth it.


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## jbolt (Feb 16, 2022)

mikey said:


> What you are telling us here is that your headstock is skewed by 0.0008" over 10". Accordingly, any leveling adjustments or tailstock alignment maneuvers will also be off.
> 
> Since the small end is at the chuck, the headstock needs to be tweaked in a CCW direction.
> 
> Is it necessary? Up to you but if you're going to be working with precision assemblies then it might be worth it.


This small amount of taper can be adjusted out with the tail end stand feet screws.


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## mikey (Feb 16, 2022)

Sure but that doesn't address the problem.


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## Dlloyd (Feb 19, 2022)

Dlloyd said:


> Sounds pretty good to me.
> BTW, I am curious how long you had to wait to get your lathe?  I ordered my 1440GT last October and they gave me a mid February date. They now saying mid March to April. So originally 4 months now 5 to 6 months.
> I just want to know how long other folks are waiting.
> thanks, David


I just found out that my lathe has been pushed to June or July. I had a feeling from the beginning it was going to be 9 or 10 months. Everyone I have talked to has said at least 9 months. 
I just hope it not longer than that.


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## Just for fun (Feb 19, 2022)

Probably just luck of the draw but I ordered both a PM-935ts and a PM-1236T in November and they are both currently enroute form Pennsylvania to Washinton as we speak.  Fingers crossed they should be here next week.


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## Dlloyd (Feb 19, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> Probably just luck of the draw but I ordered both a PM-935ts and a PM-1236T in November and they are both currently enroute form Pennsylvania to Washinton as we speak.  Fingers crossed they should be here next week.


That is awesome!  I am very happy for you.


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## Firstram (Feb 20, 2022)

mikey said:


> What you are telling us here is that your headstock is skewed by 0.0008" over 10". Accordingly, any leveling adjustments or tailstock alignment maneuvers will also be off.
> 
> Since the small end is at the chuck, the headstock needs to be tweaked in a CCW direction.
> 
> Is it necessary? Up to you but if you're going to be working with precision assemblies then it might be worth it.


Tool pressure could be pushing the stock away instead of cutting, that's a lot of stick out. How sharp was the tool? I'd try a sharp tool on a larger diameter before I moved the headstock.


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## mikey (Feb 20, 2022)

Firstram said:


> Tool pressure could be pushing the stock away instead of cutting, that's a lot of stick out. How sharp was the tool? I'd try a sharp tool on a larger diameter before I moved the headstock.


Good point. Not sure what kind of tool was used. The OP never responded.


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## LVLAaron (Jun 29, 2022)

I was wanting to put some taller feet under my lathe and decided to check for taper before I messed with it as I have some upcoming jobs....
ZERO tenths over a 10x2" bar. I had to have someone else take the measurements a second time


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## Christianstark (Jul 3, 2022)

Mikey, first off, wanted to thank you for all your helpful posts here. I have learned a lot from your posts.

That being said, I am confused by something in this post, if the small measurement was at the Chuck side wouldn’t the head be adjusted CW to move the material further into the path of the cutter? Was this an error, or am I misunderstanding something?

Thanks!



mikey said:


> What you are telling us here is that your headstock is skewed by 0.0008" over 10". Accordingly, any leveling adjustments or tailstock alignment maneuvers will also be off.
> 
> Since the small end is at the chuck, the headstock needs to be tweaked in a CCW direction.
> 
> Is it necessary? Up to you but if you're going to be working with precision assemblies then it might be worth it.


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## ddickey (Jul 3, 2022)

@LVLAaron Try taking a spring pass and recheck. Once you get to the HS turn off the lathe, retract the tool not touching the cross slide and take another cut.
​


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## mikey (Jul 3, 2022)

Christianstark said:


> Mikey, first off, wanted to thank you for all your helpful posts here. I have learned a lot from your posts.
> 
> That being said, I am confused by something in this post, if the small measurement was at the Chuck side wouldn’t the head be adjusted CW to move the material further into the path of the cutter? Was this an error, or am I misunderstanding something?
> 
> Thanks!


No, you are correct, Christian. My error.


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