# 70° today and no shop time!



## middle.road (Dec 2, 2018)

<begin WHINE>
Hit 70° here today and I didn't even open the shop. Didn't even get any time in the shop.
Of course there was the matter of picking up the treadmill that Honey scored...
At noon it was 68° and the shop thermometer was reading 53°, there was no way I was going to open up the shop and have everything start 'sweating'.
I didn't want to spend my afternoon wiping down everything.
Monday it's forecast for 53°, then Tu-41°, Wed-37°, Th-45°, and 44° on Friday. Back to using the heater. . .
What a beautiful day it would have been, but alas.
<End WHINE>


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## Al 1 (Dec 2, 2018)

Yep,  Southern N.J. ,  Colder in the shop today,  Glass on door was sweating. Turned the heat up in shop.  Al.


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## mikey (Dec 2, 2018)

Currently 76 degrees in Honolulu, snow not anticipated, everything green and blue. Sorry!


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## Nogoingback (Dec 2, 2018)

No you aren't...


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## middle.road (Dec 2, 2018)

mikey said:


> Currently 76 degrees in Honolulu, snow not anticipated, everything green and blue. Sorry!


Oh _Yeah_? well what about the ah, um, er, -aha!, the salt spray from the surf onto the bed of your Lathe/Mill/Grinder/Drill Press/Shaper?


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## lordbeezer (Dec 2, 2018)

Low 70's in Raleigh NC today..60's tomorrow..not too bad for December.


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## middle.road (Dec 2, 2018)

lordbeezer said:


> Low 70's in Raleigh NC today..60's tomorrow..not too bad for December.


Just you wait and see what we're sending you from TN later in the week...


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## lordbeezer (Dec 2, 2018)

Sure wish y'all would keep it west of the mountains..


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## mikey (Dec 2, 2018)

middle.road said:


> Oh _Yeah_? well what about the ah, um, er, -aha!, the salt spray from the surf onto the bed of your Lathe/Mill/Grinder/Drill Press/Shaper?



Nah, I just block it with oil!

Actually, we do have snow in Hawaii. You just need to go above 9,000 feet up Mauna Kea! They even ski there but the berms have lava rock underneath so falling is not encouraged. I live a mile from a huge sandy beach so the weather is nice except in the summer, when we're dodging hurricanes!


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## middle.road (Dec 2, 2018)

mikey said:


> Nah, I just block it with oil!
> 
> Actually, we do have snow in Hawaii. You just need to go above 9,000 feet up Mauna Kea! They even ski there but the berms have lava rock underneath so falling is not encouraged. I live a mile from a huge sandy beach so the weather is nice except in the summer, when we're dodging hurricanes!


I'm trying to feel for ya man, I really am, "sandy beach" - a mile away? yea, I tried, it just isn't happening. 
Although we shall wish any hurricanes headed that way to cut a wide path around the islands, and head into open seas.


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## Bob Korves (Dec 3, 2018)

In "Sunny California" tonight here in Sacramento it is forecast to be 29 F.  But the high was 54 F this afternoon.  Rain tomorrow through Thursday.  Most years it gets down to the low 20's or even the teens for a night or three during winter.  Nearly every summer goes over 110 F, but with low humidity, and usually cool sea breeze in the evenings, with night time lows in the 60's to 70's.  It is not like Minnesota where I was born, with it's "shovel or swat" seasons, and not like Honolulu with those 'boring' trade winds, where most every day you can wear a flowered shirt and shorts. but there is also a good chance of rain.  Humans settle all those places and many more, some of them at the limits of survival.  We inhabit nearly all of the planet, sometimes to our detriment.  My garage/shop has no heat, no air conditioning, and no insulation.  It works fine for a retired guy, get to choose which hours to be working there.


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## Norseman C.B. (Dec 3, 2018)

Having a brisk evening here at 17deg. s'posed to be 9deg. later, just a lil' chilly..................


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## lordbeezer (Dec 3, 2018)

If 9 degrees is chilly what do you call cold as hell...


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## Z2V (Dec 3, 2018)

Maybe 7 degrees? it was in the mid 70’s here today


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## FOMOGO (Dec 3, 2018)

We left CO last week with a low of 7 F. Here in PR now, where we are  seeing lows of 75 and high of 82. Unfortunately, my metal working tools here consit of a file and a die grinder. Mike


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## HarryJM (Dec 3, 2018)

Beautiful morning here in Greensboro NC with sunny sky's through Friday and then some of that Tennessee yucko rain/snow weather over the weekend.


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## benmychree (Dec 3, 2018)

Bob Korves said:


> In "Sunny California" tonight here in Sacramento it is forecast to be 29 F.  But the high was 54 F this afternoon.  Rain tomorrow through Thursday.  Most years it gets down to the low 20's or even the teens for a night or three during winter.  Nearly every summer goes over 110 F, but with low humidity, and usually cool sea breeze in the evenings, with night time lows in the 60's to 70's.  It is not like Minnesota where I was born, with it's "shovel or swat" seasons, and not like Honolulu with those 'boring' trade winds, where most every day you can wear a flowered shirt and shorts. but there is also a good chance of rain.  Humans settle all those places and many more, some of them at the limits of survival.  We inhabit nearly all of the planet, sometimes to our detriment.  My garage/shop has no heat, no air conditioning, and no insulation.  It works fine for a retired guy, get to choose which hours to be working there.


38 here this morning, Bob; one quick dash outside and back in, up to 48 now nothing outside is so urgent as to require my presence until it warms up some more ---


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## savarin (Dec 3, 2018)

Gee you guys are lucky, it hit 107'F last week, been in the high 80's to mid 90's since, 9:30am its 80% humidity and 84'F.
I feel like I'm melting.


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## benmychree (Dec 3, 2018)

I just came in from my shop, its 55 outside, I'm getting ready to build a fire in the stove.


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## middle.road (Dec 3, 2018)

Hit 56° here today, bit of a breeze. I did open up the shop, luckily we didn't get any 'sweating' from yesterday's hi temp.
Hung some lights for Honey, unpacked the truck from yesterday's estate sale haul, took some picts of the treadmill.
For the record, all I had in the truck was the treadmill and busted up wood 2-drawer file cabinet. (I'm gonna salvage the brass hdwr off of it...)
Kinda of a sad estate sale, they were clearing out the house - literally. Honey snagged a bunch of stuff for nothing.


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## tjb (Dec 3, 2018)

middle.road said:


> there was no way I was going to open up the shop and have everything start 'sweating'.



Actually, I just got onto H-M to post a question about that very subject.  We hit 70 a couple of days ago, and it rained all day (3 1/2").  Went out to the shop the next morning, and about half the stationary tools in my shop had a coat of flash rust on them.  Even the concrete floor looked damp from the sweating.  My shop is a stand-alone building, propane heated only when I'm out there.

I used some VF 3M pads and WD40 , and everything cleaned up nicely, but I'm curious.  Anyone care to share their preferred methods for dealing with flash rust?  Product names/etc?  Usually, I keep my equipment and metal workbenches cleaned and oiled with products like Aerokroil or PB Blaster.  Are there better products to use?  If I need to do a quick clean-up of trash or grinding dust while I'm working on a project, I'll use WD40, but I prefer the other products when between projects.

Any wise counsel?

Regards,
Terry


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## middle.road (Dec 3, 2018)

tjb said:


> Actually, I just got onto H-M to post a question about that very subject.  We hit 70 a couple of days ago, and it rained all day (3 1/2").  Went out to the shop the next morning, and about half the stationary tools in my shop had a coat of flash rust on them.  Even the concrete floor looked damp from the sweating.  My shop is a stand-alone building, propane heated only when I'm out there.
> 
> I used some VF 3M pads and WD40 , and everything cleaned up nicely, but I'm curious.  Anyone care to share their preferred methods for dealing with flash rust?  Product names/etc?  Usually, I keep my equipment and metal workbenches cleaned and oiled with products like Aerokroil or PB Blaster.  Are there better products to use?  If I need to do a quick clean-up of trash or grinding dust while I'm working on a project, I'll use WD40, but I prefer the other products when between projects.
> 
> ...



Here's a good current post in regards to the subject. I'm getting ready to try this.
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/lanolin-and-as-rust-preventer.70896/

some lubes like PB and WD40 actually attract and trap moisture - or something like that. One area on the lathe that I had WD40 puddled rusted around the edges a while back.
I've used furniture paste wax for the most part in this shop and out in the trailer for the last (6) years with decent results - _IF_ I remember to recoat...
I've also taken to tossing blankets over my machinery when the temp or humidity goes wild.


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## Nogoingback (Dec 3, 2018)

WD40 is a water displacer, but it also is acidic and can cause rust.  Lots of folks use it, but for preventing rust
there are better choices.  When my son worked at the machine shop, his boss wouldn't allow it near the machines.


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## westerner (Dec 3, 2018)

Northern Arizona, 7000 ft. altitude. Not the Arizona of the movies. 6" of snow Friday, another 3 on Sunday. High today about 40, low last night 3, yes 3 degrees F. Average this time of year is mid 40's for the high, mid teens for the low. Every year, there is a stretch of a few days that the high does not go above freezing. Humidity is almost always very low. No worries about rust, thankfully. The shop is insulated and sheetrocked. The stove is one of those 55 gallon drums turned to woodstove. It works very well. You get your heat very quickly, not having to warm up 400 lbs of steel. It does not hold the heat well, tho, so it will go thru the wood pretty quick. Drywall and 3 1/2 inches of insulation makes a tremendous difference


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## mikey (Dec 4, 2018)

westerner said:


> Northern Arizona, 7000 ft. altitude. Not the Arizona of the movies. 6" of snow Friday, another 3 on Sunday. High today about 40, low last night 3, yes 3 degrees F. Average this time of year is mid 40's for the high, mid teens for the low. Every year, there is a stretch of a few days that the high does not go above freezing. Humidity is almost always very low.



Jeez, my cojones retracted up into my abdomen just reading this!


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## KBeitz (Dec 4, 2018)

33f here in Pa.... Ready for summer I am...


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## COMachinist (Dec 4, 2018)

Well its 24F real feel was 8F this morning. We are at 6808ft alt. 7900ft a few miles away.We got about 3” of snow the last few days. Thing is our due point is -1F so things stay dry around here for the most part. During summer the humidity is usually in teens, seen it has low as 4% @ 90 F. Things just don’t rust.
I like it.
CH


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## middle.road (Dec 4, 2018)

So here's Murphy on your front stoop.
Last night Honey was coming (late) in here _beloved_ Cadillac and the 'Attention Getting Beast' started tossing a warning about "low oil pressure turn it off now".
It was intermittent and I made the executive decision and told her to just drive it home. (fingers crossed)
Anyway it was 41° tops today and I replaced sending unit, which on a Seville with 174K, is not a cakewalk on your back, in the driveway and that bloody concrete is cold. 
It was 58° yesterday.
What a difference 17° makes... I'm too aged for this stuff, or perhaps I just need a heated shop area with room enough for a vehicle, Oh Honey....


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## tjb (Dec 4, 2018)

middle.road said:


> it was 41° tops today


Dan,

How did you get that little 'degree' symbol in there?

P.S.:  Sorry about your Cadillac.


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## middle.road (Dec 4, 2018)

tjb said:


> Dan,
> 
> How did you get that little 'degree' symbol in there?
> 
> P.S.:  Sorry about your Cadillac.


Oh, to get the 'degree' symbol gang, it's simple. 
This is for a Window$ based PC and a full keyboard, I'm not sure how to do it on a laptop. A program called CharMap will also work using Copy and Paste, but for me that's too time consuming.
Hold down the <ALT> key, and while it is still depressed type out the following keys on the 10-Key Pad on the right hand side of your keyboard.
2,4,8 or 0,1,7,6.     
Here's a chart showing a bunch of available special characters:
╔═══════════════════════════════════╗
║  https://usefulshortcuts.com/downloads/ALT-Codes.pdf   ║
╚═══════════════════════════════════╝


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## middle.road (Dec 4, 2018)

Gimme a break. Snow?! Whomever it is up North that sent this, please refrain.


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## hman (Dec 5, 2018)

On a Mac, the degree symbol (º) is option-zero.  I keep a cheat sheet of common symbols on my desktop.


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## FOMOGO (Dec 5, 2018)

"96º in the shade". Thanks John, that's a good one to know. Mike


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## tjb (Dec 5, 2018)

middle.road said:


> Oh, to get the 'degree' symbol gang, it's simple.
> This is for a Window$ based PC and a full keyboard, I'm not sure how to do it on a laptop. A program called CharMap will also work using Copy and Paste, but for me that's too time consuming.
> Hold down the <ALT> key, and while it is still depressed type out the following keys on the 10-Key Pad on the right hand side of your keyboard.
> 2,4,8 or 0,1,7,6.
> ...


Thanks, Dan.  That worked, but in a roundabout way.  When I reply to you (or type any message), a tool bar shows up at the top of the text screen.  Hovering over the 12th icon, 'Insert' shows up in a drop-down.  The fourth option is </>code.  I clicked on that, and a screen showed up.  I clicked 'continue', and I was back at my message with [/CODE] at the cursor.  I put in your code (Alt248) and there it was!  The degree symbol.  Then, I went back and deleted all the "
	
	



```
..." stuff, and I was left with just the degree symbol.

I'm going to bookmark your chart for future use.

Regards,
Terry

P.S.:  It was 28° and clear at sunrise this morning.
```


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## tjb (Dec 5, 2018)

middle.road said:


> Oh, to get the 'degree' symbol gang, it's simple.
> This is for a Window$ based PC and a full keyboard, I'm not sure how to do it on a laptop. A program called CharMap will also work using Copy and Paste, but for me that's too time consuming.
> Hold down the <ALT> key, and while it is still depressed type out the following keys on the 10-Key Pad on the right hand side of your keyboard.
> 2,4,8 or 0,1,7,6.
> ...


Okay, that answer looks funny on the thread.  Here's a quick-and-dirty attempt at an answer.  At sunrise, we had 28° and clear.

Regards,
Terry


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## ThinWoodsman (Dec 5, 2018)

middle.road said:


> Gimme a break. Snow?! Whomever it is up North that sent this, please refrain.



My bad - it kept falling here and I ran out of places to put it


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## westerner (Dec 5, 2018)

mikey said:


> Jeez, my cojones retracted up into my abdomen just reading this!


Indeed. You do not have to live in Hawaii to have this reaction. I was born and raised here, so it is not shocking, just not alot of fun. What IS shocking is that I can drive 3 hrs to find the Arizona of the movies (cactus, 110 degrees in the shade,  and rattlesnakes). I have family there, and we take turns condemning each other's seasons.
That said, my hat is off to those that live in the upper Midwest. Ice storms, weeks of rain, tornadoes, flood, BUGS, 100 degrees and 100 % humidity!?!?. I am just fine right here.


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## starr256 (Jan 5, 2019)

At 5000 feet in Colorado, no rust. Period. Just wish I had insulated the workshop. Cold machinery is cold, regardless of the level of humidity. I can deal with a cold room, but the fingers don't like cold handles. Have taken to using a heat gun on the handles prior to use.


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## NCjeeper (Jan 5, 2019)

Sun is finally out! It has been pretty much raining off and on for the past 2 weeks.


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## tjb (Jan 5, 2019)

NCjeeper said:


> Sun is finally out! It has been pretty much raining off and on for the past 2 weeks.


Us, too.  Got 2+ inches yesterday in about 4 hours.  Because the ground's so saturated, that caused the creek next to our farm to flood.  Come on, sunshine!

Regards,
Terry


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## tjb (Jan 5, 2019)

P.S.:  Missed setting an all-time record in 2018 by about half an inch.  All this rain, and we don't even have bragging rights.


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## middle.road (Jan 29, 2019)

Back before Thanksgiving I had a plan to get some Shop Time.
Doc sent me a Care Package to use on the 1440 lathe, and I had straightened up the shop a bit, picked up some fire bricks, 
got the flash back arrestors, scrounged material, I was ready!
And you know what they say about "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry."

In two months I've had only two days of proper Shop Time, and that was for making up a Christmas present for the Wife.
Any available time that came around has been chewed up repairing Honey's car, and it's been wearing me out.
So now there's two benches scattered with vehicle parts and tools. 

Today we've got an inch or so of snow on the ground, and it's getting colder. 58° yesterday, 27° as I write up this whiny post.
At least the forecast has been revised and we're not facing the single digits they had predicted.


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## mikey (Jan 29, 2019)

Its 73 degrees here in Hawaii and for us, that's cold! Should get into the high 70's today, though. I sure feel for you guys that are freezing your cojones off "up north".


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## cathead (Jan 29, 2019)

It's early afternoon and the sun is out through some haze.  The temperature is -30 degreees F(-35C) with a wind chill of
about -60 degrees Farenheit.  I havn't seen any mosquitos lately though...


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## ddickey (Jan 29, 2019)

Yeah. They're predicting -35 Wednesday night and -27 tonight. My poor heat pump will be working double over time.


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## cathead (Jan 29, 2019)

ddickey said:


> Yeah. They're predicting -35 Wednesday night and -27 tonight. My poor heat pump will be working double over time.



That's what you get for living down south. ....................................


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## Barncat (Jan 29, 2019)

It is 7 degrees F here, got 12" of snow overnight. Supposed to be 5 below zero tomorrow for a high. Will not be working in the unheated shop anytime soon.


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## hman (Jan 29, 2019)

mikey said:


> Its 73 degrees here in Hawaii and for us, that's cold! Should get into the high 70's today, though. I sure feel for you guys that are freezing your cojones off "up north".


Aw, c'mon, Mikey.  Yer really makin' (some of) us feel bad.


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## Bob Korves (Jan 29, 2019)

hman said:


> Aw, c'mon, Mikey.  Yer really makin' (some of) us feel bad.


And Mikey is probably grinning ear to ear.  There is a simple cure to cold weather --  MOVE!  That is what my family did, '57 Buick, big U haul trailer, we all got in the car and moved to California -- in February of 1959.  Never looked back...


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## Boswell (Jan 29, 2019)

Here we have a population that we call Winter Texans. Not a bad plan to be South in the Winter and North in the Summer.  And if you built two shops you get twice as much space to fill up with stuff  .


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## savarin (Jan 29, 2019)

very unusual for us, it hasnt stopped raining for a week. This is continuous rain very heavy.
The yard is flooded and its seeping into the downstairs rooms through the blockwork.
The forcast is at least another week of it.
I dunno, from drought and water restrictions to flood and inundation in one easy lesson.


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## middle.road (Jan 29, 2019)

Barncat's pict of snow is sending a chill through my body.
Now if I were (40) years younger and headed out to snowmobile - then I'd be sayin' Hot D*mn!


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## mikey (Jan 29, 2019)

hman said:


> Aw, c'mon, Mikey.  Yer really makin' (some of) us feel bad.






Bob Korves said:


> And Mikey is probably grinning ear to ear.  There is a simple cure to cold weather --  MOVE!  That is what my family did, '57 Buick, big U haul trailer, we all got in the car and moved to California -- in February of 1959.  Never looked back...



I live less than a minute away from a beautiful white sand beach with turquoise blue water, fronted by 3.5 miles of the most beautiful scenic coastline on Oahu. I know its tough but somebody just has to live here, right?


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## Nogoingback (Jan 29, 2019)

I’m staying with a friend in Hilo this week, and up until today it was a bit chilly.  I almost had to put on a coat last night.


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## MarkDavis (Jan 29, 2019)

Today was beautiful here, High temp 28,  humidity midday about 30. Not a cloud in the sky, if the wind blew is was less than 3MPH.
Just enough snow on the ground to make it white, and snow capped peaks visible almost every direction.


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## mikey (Jan 29, 2019)

Nogoingback said:


> I’m staying with a friend in Hilo this week, and up until today it was a bit chilly.  I almost had to put on a coat last night.



Go up to Mauna Kea. Should have snow this time of year up there. 

Most folks don't realize that the number 1 killer for outdoor activities in Hawaii is hypothermia. When I used to hunt on the slopes of Mauna Kea, night time temps often got into the 30's ... in the summer. You get stuck on the side of a mountain at night and get rained on and it can get deadly cold out here.


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## savarin (Jan 30, 2019)

snow should only be allowed on picture post cards. Period.


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## cathead (Jan 30, 2019)

Temp still dropping at midnight.....presently -42F....................



I noticed the cobwebs too but will have to wait to clean it up I guess....


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## Z2V (Jan 30, 2019)

Geeezz, I just can’t imagine that kind of cold.


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## Janderso (Jan 30, 2019)

Never in my life. BBBRRRRRRRR
I heard on the news yesterday morning, Indiana temperatures are hitting a low not seen since the early 1800's.
I was out in the shop at work all day yesterday in a t-shirt. 67 degrees.
Ah-California


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## Downunder Bob (Jan 30, 2019)

At the other end of the scale, last week here in Adelaide South Australia we set a new all time record with 46.6c =115.88f It wasn't too bad as the humidity was low. Jumping in the pool at the end of the day was abit of a shock, the pool was 40c like a hot bath, but it sure did ease those tired muscles.


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## tjb (Jan 30, 2019)

mikey said:


> Most folks don't realize that the number 1 killer for outdoor activities in Hawaii is hypothermia. When I used to hunt on the slopes of Mauna Kea, night time temps often got into the 30's ... in the summer. You get stuck on the side of a mountain at night and get rained on and it can get deadly cold out here.


And most folks don't realize that one of the largest cattle ranches in the world is also in Hawaii - on the Big Island.  Is the Parker Ranch still operating, Mikey?  Several years ago, I had a meeting on the Big Island and, being a part time horse trainer, I contacted the ranch.  Their wrangler gave my wife and me a three or four hour tour of the operation.  Fascinating.

Regards,
Terry


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## ddickey (Jan 30, 2019)

-27 below here. 
Colder than a well diggers toolbox.


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## ThinWoodsman (Jan 30, 2019)

Spending a couple weeks in NYC for work. Good ol' Polar McVortex has dropped the temps to the 20s (F), nothing too bad but you wouldn't know it from the locals complaining.

I think next time I have to come here, I'll bring a file and a block of steel just to keep my hands busy. 22° today and no shop time!


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## middle.road (Jan 30, 2019)

cathead said:


> Temp still dropping at midnight.....presently -42F....................
> 
> I noticed the cobwebs too but will have to wait to clean it up I guess....


It isn't a shop unless it has cobwebs!
That is just bone chillin'....


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## savarin (Jan 30, 2019)

To look on the bright side although we havnt seen the sun for well over a week its not cold.
 A bit wet though, it hasnt stopped raining for 24 hours, very unusual.
Downstairs has water leaking through the walls and the upstairs kitchen has a leak in the roof.
The garden wont need watering for a while and all my water tanks are full.
Not too bad all things considered




__





						No Cookies | Townsville Bulletin
					






					www.townsvillebulletin.com.au


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## mikey (Jan 30, 2019)

tjb said:


> And most folks don't realize that one of the largest cattle ranches in the world is also in Hawaii - on the Big Island.  Is the Parker Ranch still operating, Mikey?  Several years ago, I had a meeting on the Big Island and, being a part time horse trainer, I contacted the ranch.  Their wrangler gave my wife and me a three or four hour tour of the operation.  Fascinating.
> 
> Regards,
> Terry



Last I heard, Parker Ranch is still in operation but I think its run by a trust, not the Parker family anymore. Huge, beautiful ranche with about 250,000 acres! Rolling hills that look like Northern Italy, Eucalyptus trees, huge feral pigs and tons of pheasants and other game birds. You were lucky to have a tour, Terry.


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## middle.road (Jan 31, 2019)

ddickey said:


> Yeah. They're predicting -35 Wednesday night and -27 tonight. My poor heat pump will be working double over time.


We got down to only 18° or so last night. Woke up to a non-functioning heat pump .... 59° in da house.
Air handler and compressor are just 5 years old...


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## cathead (Jan 31, 2019)

Sunrise at 45 below zero...........
	

		
			
		

		
	



  That's my neighbor's fish house on the lower left.  There are other fish houses farther away
  but not visible through the inversion haze.


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## ddickey (Jan 31, 2019)

Only 18°F and your heat pump stopped working?
I set mine to the minimum, 50° and put a little electric heater in the garage. Currently @ 52° with an outside temp of -33°.


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## middle.road (Jan 31, 2019)

Getting a bit nippy in the house. Unit is a Goodman and it blows the fuse on the control board as soon as power is turned back on.
And wouldn't you know it, the outfit that put it in is no longer doing HVAC business...?
Why the devil couldn't it have crapped out during the summer?


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## middle.road (Feb 2, 2019)

15° on Tuesday/Wednesday, 62° this afternoon. Shop was as cold as a meat cooler.
Still haven't gotten the time to start repairs on the 1440...


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## savarin (Feb 2, 2019)

Dont have the debilitating cold  thankfully that you guys have but I am now officially living in a disaster zone.
Our dam is at 235.3% of capacity and the river has burst its banks at the bottom of my daughters street.
So far our house is just damp and not flooded. The bit of seepage is controllable.
Down south they have raging bush fires Duh!
Weather is out of control. (not that it ever was under control)


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## mmcmdl (Feb 3, 2019)

Had a wonderful 4 day trip planned for the property up in the Adirondacks in early Nov last year . Packed the dogs , had a great ride up and found 18 inches of snow on the ground and temp was 8 degrees . The trailer had no heat . I lasted 5 hours , turned around and came back home .  I can't even imagine -45 .


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