# Mini Mills-HF or Grizzly or ?



## FWest (Nov 1, 2013)

I'm new to machining(less than 1 year). I have an older Logan lathe and want a starter Mill. I have read a lot about the hit or miss quality on the X2. Also the spindle taper-MT3 vs R8.

I do not have the space/need/$ for a full size knee mill. Would like to be movable by 2 guys or less.

Is the HF mini the best bang for the $ ?

Is the Grizzly worth the extra $ ?

Would I loose much capability if I went with a Taig ?

Anyone in the NE US want to pass on a small mill ?

I have been checking craigslist often but nothing so far. 

Any tips or leads would be appreciated. Thanks, FWest


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## cwolfs69 (Nov 1, 2013)

:think1:i did quite a bit of research before purchasing my mini mill. in addition i was in the machinist field for over 30 years before my retirement. if you are purchasing a "mini" mill you need to remember that they all come off of the same assembly line. the basic machine is going to be the same. the difference will be the individual changes made to meet the vendors specs. such as the spindle bore on the HF is R-8 and on the Grizzly it is MT3. when assembled they take the spindle for one from one pile and for the other from another pile. that is why when i bought mine i chose the HF. Cheaper and I personally like the R-8 better, much more tooling and specialty stuff available. you can find HF coupons on line for 25% off regularly. that makes it very reasonable. mods to the mill are easy and fairly cheap. 

Just my $0.02 worth on the matter. should you want more info or need help with any of the mods, DRO, Air spring balance, Spindle reverse, drop me a note or call me. :allgood:


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## David Kirtley (Nov 1, 2013)

Also consider is the Little Machine Shop or MicroMark versions.  The brushless motor with more power is not a bad thing and the Non-tilting column is worth considering. They have the larger bed as well. 

I have the HF X2 and went the sale + coupon route and saved a bit of money. By the time you upgrade to the belt drive (a worthwhile upgrade) it evens the price out a bit.  Availability of reasonable priced R8 tooling is another plus.


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## iron man (Nov 1, 2013)

I have the Grizzly GO727 all though I have modified it alot in its stock form it is a good little mill a little larger than the mini mill and it is both horizontal and vertical to boot. For the money a good mill but if not I would stick with grizzly anyway if you have a problem the customer service is second to none. Ray

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mini-Horizontal-Vertical-Mill/G0727


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## cwolfs69 (Nov 1, 2013)

Yes i forgot to mention the Little Machine Shop, solid column mill. that is great for the price. If you have the money that is the best buy but i was trying to help himi out on the lower priced end. If i would have had the money to spare, I would have bought the HiTorque Mini Mill, Solid Column myself. I still think my HF works great. By the way, the LMS mill has an R-8 taper as well.

I actually dont like the thought of the belt drive on mine. it makes it cumbersome to change speeds in my opinion. as of now all i have to do is shift a lever, 2 seconds, and with the conversion you have to loosen motor, move belt , readjust motor and then run. the replacement gears are very cheap and it is a safety factor if you overload the machine that the gear is designed to break first.


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## SEK_22Hornet (Nov 1, 2013)

Just to throw something else into the mix, I see many positive comments on this forum about Precision Matthews mills. They are more money, starting out priced very close to the Grizzly G0704, but I see a lot of positive comments on the quality and support from the importer. Here is a link to the website - http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-MV-BenchMills.html  I have a Grizzly G0704 and the only thing I have against it is the plastic drive gear that like to strip if you aren't careful. You might check to see what comes with the PM mills, I didn't see a list on the website, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that they may have included a few extras at one time.

That being said, depending on what you want to do, if you are down to deciding between the Grizzly and HF X2 models, I'd say go ahead with the HF model if you can get it with the 25% coupon and find it on sale. Parts for it are available from Little Machine Shop, but don't expect support from HF. You could even get most parts for the HF from Grizzly.

Dan


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## David Kirtley (Nov 1, 2013)

If you snag something, the belt will slip (unless you have it too tight.)  The Sterling belt drive (the one that LMS sells) is not that hard to change speeds. One lever to loosen the belt. That said, I have never had it in the high speed other than just for going gee whiz when I first put it on. I mostly use bigger tooling and need the power.

Another thing to consider is if you are going to stay with manual milling or have plans of CNC conversion.  The  Taig has easier conversion path but with less capacity for tool holding.

Just to really mess with you, The only bad thing about the Taig, LMS, and Micromark is the price. At that price, you are getting near the price of an X3 such as the Grizzly G0704. It is a lot more machine. It is easy to creep up into real money though. All that said, if I were doing it again, I would probably go the same route again (Harbor Freight X2 + belt drive.) It ended up being $399.99 with the right combo of sale and coupons for the mill and $150 for the belt drive. It was a lot of bang for the buck.


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## billooms (Nov 1, 2013)

As you will read on other threads, the quality of the import machines is a function of the company importing/selling it. My own observation is that HF quality is not as good as the Grizzly machines (even though they might appear to be very similar machines). I've bought 2 lathes and one milling machine from Grizzly. On the older lathe and milling machine (about 8 years old) I can still get parts and excellent service from the Grizzly folks. To me, knowing that Grizzly will be around for a while with spare parts and technical support is worth a lot.


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## FWest (Nov 1, 2013)

Thanks for all the input everyone. My work will be mainly firearm related, dies, lowers and maybe some special tooling and jigs. Nothing very big.

The tools I use daily are the high quality, Snap-on, Mac and some Matco. Just starting out I had Craftsman and imports and I think I will do the same with the mill, then after I learn more about machining I will purchase a better quality tool. At this point the HF or Grizzly mini should work to get started. 


Thanks again for sharing your experience.


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## 24more (Nov 1, 2013)

I was going to do the x2 from harbor. Had it ordered and they were jerking me around so I got the wife to let me have some extra funds and went with a g0704 from grizzly. I know for a fact the x2 would have been a let down just because of table size and such. Liking the grizzly for now. Just remember they are light duty hobby machines.  I use all snap on and such at work also.  Bridge ports and Logan's and such for machine tools.  It's hard to come home and not be able to throw a 2" block of stainless on the table.


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## cwolfs69 (Nov 2, 2013)

24more said:


> I was going to do the x2 from harbor. Had it ordered and they were jerking me around so I got the wife to let me have some extra funds and went with a g0704 from grizzly. I know for a fact the x2 would have been a let down just because of table size and such. Liking the grizzly for now. Just remember they are light duty hobby machines.  I use all snap on and such at work also.  Bridge ports and Logan's and such for machine tools.  It's hard to come home and not be able to throw a 2" block of stainless on the table.




yes if you can afford it i believe the G0704 would be a little better machine. It is heavier however. Some have mentioned the G0727 which in my mind is a great looking machine but completely different type of operation. for general light work i would rather have the HF mini over the G0727. Then for other types, arbor driven tools, get the G0727.


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## wrmiller (Nov 3, 2013)

My first mini-mill a decade ago was a tilt column. Not bad, depending on what you want to do, but my LMS solid column is much more rigid and the belt drive much smoother and quieter. No hi-lo speed changes either. I also wanted the inch leadscrews. 

Bill


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## FWest (Nov 5, 2013)

Thanks for all the help.

I ordered the HF 44991. I know there are better tools out there but I wanted to get started and have some $ left for tooling. The mill has an R8 spindle so most should transfer over to a better machine if and when.


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## itsme_Bernie (Nov 5, 2013)

FWest said:


> Thanks for all the help.
> 
> I ordered the HF 44991. I know there are better tools out there but I wanted to get started and have some $ left for tooling. The mill has an R8 spindle so most should transfer over to a better machine if and when.



Good for you!  Pics when you get it!! 



Bernie


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## cwolfs69 (Nov 5, 2013)

FWest said:


> Thanks for all the help.
> 
> I ordered the HF 44991. I know there are better tools out there but I wanted to get started and have some $ left for tooling. The mill has an R8 spindle so most should transfer over to a better machine if and when.



nice choice in my humble opinion. give me a PM for details on the mods i mentioned in the past posts.


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## FWest (Nov 5, 2013)

cwolfs69 said:


> nice choice in my humble opinion. give me a PM for details on the mods i mentioned in the past posts.



PM sent, delivery scheduled for a week from today. :thumbsup:


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## FWest (Nov 16, 2013)

Got the little mill moved into my cluttered garage. Still have to bolt it down and finish the set up.


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## wrmiller (Nov 16, 2013)

And the fun begins! 

Bill


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## autonoz (Nov 22, 2013)

If you have the funds, get the belt drive from LMS, you will not be sorry. I ran mine until I stripped the gears and after putting the belt drive on I wish I would have done it from the start. Quieter, smoother and an all around better feel. Never thought it would make this much difference.


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## FWest (Nov 22, 2013)

The belt drive is on the list. A member here shared his mods to the mill, air spring and reverse switch. Those will be my first additions. After the holidays a belt drive and a better vise. 

Made a chip pan out of alum panels, used on trailers. Made to be removable. Post a pic in a few.


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## FWest (Nov 22, 2013)

Chip pan.


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## autonoz (Nov 22, 2013)

FWest said:


> The belt drive is on the list. A member here shared his mods to the mill, air spring and reverse switch. Those will be my first additions. After the holidays a belt drive and a better vise.
> 
> Made a chip pan out of alum panels, used on trailers. Made to be removable. Post a pic in a few.



Yea, I have the air spring mod as well and it helps. Make sure you lock everything your not moving while your milling to sturdy everything up. Also make sure you push the handle in and use the dial to lower your mill so the spindle does not grab and pull the head down into your work. You will be buying the belt drive before you want to if this happens.


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## Rbeckett (Nov 22, 2013)

I personally think that if you are considering buying new that you should give Precision Mathews a good long look.  Dollar for dollar they are top of the line in fit and finish and they have been arriving in excellent condition from China every time.  Matt does a super job supporting them and will insure that you experience is as trouble free and positive as it can get.  I was looking quite hard at the PM 932 and possible the next larger 945 if I made the jump to something new.  I did however find a cherry used Clausing 8520 for a great used price, so I am off the market for a new mill for the time being.  Ultimately I will eventually get the 945 CNC machine, but that is quite a distance into the future for me right now.  Heck I may not live long enough to get there at the rate I am going now... Definitely take a look at the PM machines and see if Matt cannot make you a great deal on a new one if that is the way you decide to go.

Bob


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