# Still one of my favorite machines



## burtonbr (Jun 25, 2020)

I don't know why but I still like hearing this little saw running in the background while I'm working on projects...


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## WCraig (Jun 25, 2020)

Very cool!  What is the stroke on your machine?  Where do you find blades?

Craig
(One came up for auction locally this week but went for FAR more than I would have guessed.)


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## Hawkeye (Jun 25, 2020)

I have one like the one in the video. It's missing the cast iron weights and part of the vise, and I had to make a new connecting rod, but it's as fascinating as a shaper. You can't help but watch it.

I like the lifting mechanism. Cuts on the pull stroke, lifts on the push. That keeps it from damaging the teeth.


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## savarin (Jun 26, 2020)

how does the lifting mechanism work?
I saw one that used a cam but I couldnt work out how that coped with the gradual lowering of the blade as it cut


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## craniac (Jun 26, 2020)

I have one of these which I love. The flywheel has two arms, one makes the blade reciprocate and the other moves two ratcheting arms which are individually adjustable that lift the blade at the end of stroke. Hard to describe. 

It's a little fiddly on mine due to some wear in the mechanisms, causing slop.


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## phubbman (Jun 26, 2020)

I just got one of those.  I don't have it in hand yet, but should have it this time next week.  Mine's missing the movable vise jaw / clamp, so i've got a bit of work to do on it.  Really looking forward to pulling it apart and going through it - then putting it to use.  Nice little machine.  

Some people use standard 12" hack saw blades.  They will mount in the saw, but maybe a bit fragile.  McMaster Carr sells new Starrett brand blades for this saw, which are thicker and a bit taller than regular hack saw blades.  I've also seen blades on ebay, though they tend to be pricey.  Apparently a good blade will last a very long time.

Thanks for posting that.

paulh


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## Hawkeye (Jun 27, 2020)

The second arm operates a pair of pawls which work against grooved plates on the swing arm (motorcycle term). The grooves are about 1/16" apart. The pawls don't contact the grooves on the cutting stroke, but are pushed forward on the reverse stroke, lifting the swing arm. As the blade descends through the work, the pawls contact grooves higher up the rack.


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## Lo-Fi (Jun 27, 2020)

phubbman said:


> Apparently a good blade will last a very long time.



I just replaced an Eclipse 12" power hacksaw blade in my Wellsaw. Its well over ten years old!


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## mikey (Jun 27, 2020)

What is the attraction to these saws? Serious question. A band saw is much faster and is pretty accurate when adjusted well. Is it mostly the novelty of an old school machine?


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## wa5cab (Jun 27, 2020)

Could also be that it is easier to get it to cut square than is a band saw.


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## burtonbr (Jun 27, 2020)

For me the attraction is a few things, small size, and just the novelty of old iron still working well & there’s something about slider-crank mechanism or rotary motion into linear motion that I like, just slow and steady motion keeps on working. I always wanted a shaper too and recently got a SB 7” shaper which I really have no use for but I’ll put a piece of stock in it and square it up just for practice. 

this saw was too cheap to pass up when I bought it and it works well, I would rather not have a HF 4x6 and don’t have room for much larger, though I like to have an Ellis bandsaw.


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## mikey (Jun 27, 2020)

I can definitely see the attraction and novelty of old school devices. I want a shaper, too, but I guess I never saw the sense in a powered hacksaw when compared to the speed and accuracy of a modern H/V band saw. I cannot deny the novelty and cool factor of these machines though so I can understand why you really like it. Thank you for your response, Sir.


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## craniac (Jun 27, 2020)

I agree with burtonbr points above, small size, gizmosity, the sound. Speed is not the essence for me, and actually I let it cut while I'm doing something else in the shop. I found it more accurate than the bandsaw I had- which was no great shakes admittedly-that means I have less squaring up to do. For me it's just likeable, not really the most productive choice maybe. My pace in the shop right now is pretty slow.

Tim


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## brino (Jun 27, 2020)

craniac said:


> gizmosity



Great word!



burtonbr said:


> I don't know why but I still like hearing this little saw running in the background while I'm working on projects...



Oh I know why....it's because subliminally you're just so grateful that it's not _your_ elbow doing that hack-sawing.
The elbow IS connected to the ear bone!

-brino


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## Lo-Fi (Jun 27, 2020)

I'd love a bandsaw, but good metal cutting vertical machines are really hard to come by inexpensively.. A horizontal just does what the PH does a bit faster. The power hacksaw is slow but reliable and I'd hate to give up the old iron. I tend to set it chopping and go do something else, so speed isn't the biggest factor. If I didn't have it, I'd likely be looking for a horizontal bandsaw not a power hacksaw, though.


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## HarryJM (Jun 28, 2020)

burtonbr said:


> ..there’s something about slider-crank mechanism or rotary motion into linear motion that I like, just slow and steady motion keeps on working.


Some of us enjoy the enjoyment of the journey.


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## Aaron_W (Jun 28, 2020)

mikey said:


> What is the attraction to these saws? Serious question. A band saw is much faster and is pretty accurate when adjusted well. Is it mostly the novelty of an old school machine?



Actually that isn't necessarily true, here is a head to head between a HF 4x6 bandsaw and a similar sized Marvel hacksaw.






If you don't want to watch the whole 26 minute video the punchline is the Marvel cut the material in 1:42, the bandsaw 2:17.


That Marval saw is bigger than the OPs Craftsman, but I think it is a fair comparison to the HF bandsaw as they take up a similar amount of space. 

I have an Excel hacksaw which is the same as the Craftsman saw, and on its stand it is only about 2/3 the size of the HF bandsaw, so yes it is slower, but if space is at a premium it is even more compact than the small HF saw.


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## mikey (Jun 28, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> Actually that isn't necessarily true, here is a head to head between a HF 4x6 bandsaw and a similar sized Marvel hacksaw.
> 
> If you don't want to watch the whole 26 minute video the punchline is the Marvel cut the material in 1:42, the bandsaw 2:17.
> 
> ...



There are all sorts of variables in this comparison that can impact on the results. He says he used a new blade, 10 tpi, but did not hear him mention what kind of blade it is. If it was carbon steel from HF then it won't cut spaghetti. He did use a Starrett blade on the Marvel, which I have to admit did pretty well. 

I think much depends on the blade in use. I have a Lenox high tension hacksaw that cut through a 1" Tru-Cut mower rear axle in *8 *Mike-powered strokes using a Lenox bi-metal blade so I know a good hacksaw blade can perform wonders. On the other hand, I would still much rather use my Lenox bi-metal blades on my Jet H/V band saw and let it do the work.

I will reserve judgement on these powered hacksaws though, so thanks for that. I think they're pretty cool machines. I want a shaper, though!


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## Aaron_W (Jun 30, 2020)

In the comments somebody asked about the bandsaw blade, and he replied that it was a bi-metal blade, but no brand given.

Lots of ways to compare things too, space matters to me so I look at size first, and those two take up a similar space. I think that that Marvel saw is a #2 which would mean it can cut 8x8" so it is a "bigger" saw in capacity than the HF 4x6. The Craftsman saws are 4x4" so perhaps a more "fair" comparison from a capacity stand point, although the Craftsman takes up less room in the shop. 

I have a HF 4x6 myself and think they are a fine saw for the money, one of the most used tools in my shop. The little Excel saw I got recently does have more character though.


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## FOMOGO (Jun 30, 2020)

Here is my little off brand 4.5" being stretched to the limit. I have a larger horizontal saw, but it's buried behind a pile of stuff in the new shop, and I needed a chunk of this 7" pipe. Had to rotate it twice and remove a guard, but it got her done. Mike


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## phubbman (Jul 31, 2020)

I just picked up the Covel version of this saw.  Mine was missing the original movable vise jaw, and a previous owner had bolted on a shop made one which didn't hold together.  



Since i couldn't find an original replacement, I modified the previous fix which seems to hold well enough.  I really like this little saw.  This is the first time i've used a power hacksaw.  Gotta say, it's a sweet little machine.  Now for new paint.







burtonbr said:


> I don't know why but I still like hearing this little saw running in the background while I'm working on projects...


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## Aaron_W (Jul 31, 2020)

phubbman said:


> I just picked up the Covel version of this saw.  Mine was missing the original movable vise jaw, and a previous owner had bolted on a shop made one which didn't hold together.
> 
> View attachment 332058
> 
> ...



I have a Covel saw too. Like yours the vise was removed, but mine came with a decent 4" angle drill press vise. I plan to make a vise similar to the original one eventually.


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## phubbman (Jul 31, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> I have a Covel saw too. Like yours the vise was removed, but mine came with a decent 4" angle drill press vise. I plan to make a vise similar to the original one eventually.



That would be nice.  The quick adjust of the original design is definitely a plus.  The threaded rod on mine is a 5/8" x 13tpi, which takes its sweet time cranking it open and closed.  I might replace mine with an acme thread / nut, and if inspiration really strikes me, i might make a buttress threaded rod and a half nut.  I need to get more comfortable with my lathe skills before tackling that one though.


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## markba633csi (Jul 31, 2020)

We had a monster power hacksaw in my high school shop.  It was so covered in grease and oil it looked like it had "grown" out of the floor like the interiors in the Alien movies.  The downfeed mechanism used hydraulics but had long since worn out so you had to literally sit on it.  Fun stuff. Good memories.  '71 to '73 Cubberley HS Palo Alto-  Mr. Harold Riddle RIP
-Mark


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## welderr (Aug 3, 2020)

I have a little Keller Power Hack Saw, I grew up using my Dad's Large 3 phase Marvel, but I can't justify keeping that for my new place it just takes up too much space. The Keller is much more basement shop friendly and it breaks down into small pieces. mine has liquid cooling for the blade and uses a small air cylinder triggered by a micro switch to lift the blade on the back stroke. The blades last a long time if they are lubed or you use the flood cooling. The quickest way to break a blade is to not have the work piece clamped tight in the vice the blade will latch onto it and yank it right out, snapping the blade when it binds. TJ


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## phubbman (Aug 12, 2020)

I'm getting there on my rebuild.  I got all the parts made and all the adjustments dialed in, then pulled the saw apart for a repaint.  It's on my bench now, partially reassembled.  Should be done in a day or two.


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## phubbman (Aug 16, 2020)

Got it done. I like this little saw.


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## vtcnc (Aug 16, 2020)

mikey said:


> *8 *Mike-powered strokes


Let the "Conversion to HP" games begin!


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## vtcnc (Aug 16, 2020)

phubbman said:


> Got it done. I like this little saw.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude, you went all in on that. NICE Work!!


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## vtcnc (Aug 16, 2020)

@mikey,

I have a very old Miller's Fall Power Hacksaw. It's a relic. It needs work. I used it to cut everything and it works and cuts straight and square. I put my 11 year old on it and he loves it while I go do something else.

The problem I see with HF bandsaw is that its about the only affordable alternative most hobbyists have. Heck even machine shops I've walked into just go to harbor freight and buy one. I'm not trashing harbor freight, I go there all the time, but damn, call it pretentious if you want - I just can't see myself having a sheet-metal constructed machine next to all of the other old iron that I care for and take pride in. I admit it I'm a Power Hacksaw snob. Maybe I'm describing the meaning of the novelty of getting an old iron machine that simply cuts metal in one direction. So be it, I'm guilty!

I want a shaper too.


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## Aaron_W (Aug 16, 2020)

phubbman said:


> Got it done. I like this little saw.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice job on the saw. Mine is still in line to get cleaned up. I like the color combination. 



vtcnc said:


> I just can't see myself having a sheet-metal constructed machine next to all of the other old iron that I care for and take pride in. I admit it I'm a Power Hacksaw snob. Maybe I'm describing the meaning of the novelty of getting an old iron machine that simply cuts metal in one direction. So be it, I'm guilty!
> 
> I want a shaper too.




In a hobby shop I think that is an entirely valid attitude. Most of us don't make money from our machines so we don't have to put efficiency and cost effectiveness front and center. Machines in a shop do give off a vibe and can add to the enjoyment of being in the shop. All brand new very efficient machines is also a thing that some enjoy, although this is also easier to justify. "New car smell" is a real thing not just a name of an air freshener and the smell of 60 year old grease and work is too.  

It wasn't my goal to have all vintage machinery, but now that most of mine are 40+ year old US made machines, I do heavily lean that way on new additions to the shop.


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## mikey (Aug 16, 2020)

vtcnc said:


> @mikey,
> 
> I have a very old Miller's Fall Power Hacksaw. It's a relic. It needs work. I used it to cut everything and it works and cuts straight and square. I put my 11 year old on it and he loves it while I go do something else.
> 
> ...



I totally get it. I think these old powered hacksaws are cool, too, and while I may never own one (not many exist in Hawaii) I can see the appeal. Besides, anything powered is better than a hacksaw!


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## brino (Aug 16, 2020)

phubbman said:


> Got it done. I like this little saw.



That is gorgeous!
If it cuts even half as good as it looks, then it's a keeper!
Great work.
-brino


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## phubbman (Aug 17, 2020)

brino said:


> That is gorgeous!
> If it cuts even half as good as it looks, then it's a keeper!
> Great work.
> -brino



Thanks for the kind comments everybody.  The saw does cut very well - nice and square and accurate.  It’s also not that slow.  I’d put it definitely faster and more accurate than by hand, definitely slower than a cold saw, and a bit slower (but maybe more accurate) than the bandsaw I’ve used.  Then again, I set it, flip the switch, and walk away.  It turns itself off when it gets through the cut.

It’s also a bit mesmerizing to watch it go.  

Now on to the next project.


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