# Rod Selection?



## Wheresmywrench? (Jul 2, 2015)

Simply how much larger should the material you select to turn be then the finished part. I'm talking about when you go out and buy a rod for a specific job.Lets say finished size 1/2 inch should it be 1/16" or 1/8" larger in diameter?


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## Ulma Doctor (Jul 2, 2015)

a lot of times stock is of nominal thickness, that is the material is slightly oversize unless otherwise specified.
2 exceptions i know for sure is in selecting delrin and extruded aluminum, they are right on the money for the size- other materials may have similarities.

if your finished part needs to be .500" and your material is .500" it's possible that no other external machining would be necessary other than possibly knurling or parting.
if you need a finished dimension of .505" you could possibly need to start with 13mm(.511") or larger stock, then turn down to desired diameter.


it really depends on the project and the material used, as to what size selection you'll make


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## gr8legs (Jul 3, 2015)

Almost as important as getting the right diameter is getting enough length. I always plan on screwing up the first one or two (usually at the very last operation) and having to start over with fresh stock, so I make sure I get enough the first time to do the entire job two or three times.

If by some miracle I luck out and do it right the first time then I have stock on hand for another project somewhere down the line. Maybe someday my odds will improve 

Stu


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## mikey (Jul 3, 2015)

I'm with Stu, except I worry more about the OD once I get past the surface finish. Extruded stuff like Aluminum or Delrin usually only require a 0.010" reduction in OD to get past the external stuff and get a clean OD to work with. Most tool steels, drill rod and hot rolled material also seem to require less work to prep, while the hot rolled stuff seems to need more. Bottom line is I go about 1/16" greater OD than I need to be sure I have room to clean it up for a nice finish.


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## Wheresmywrench? (Jul 3, 2015)

Great thanks for the replies and I'm new at this. I have a Emco Maximat V10-P. My greatest concern is for a nice finished look.How is cold rolled steel for working with? I want to use it to get some practice in with as it's cheap to buy.


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## Bill Gruby (Jul 3, 2015)

Selection depends on two things not relative to the material itself. Where you are located and availability. Now for the size itself. It would probably be easier to find .125 over rather ihan .062 over. When I buy I usually go for +.125.

 "Billy G"


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## Wheresmywrench? (Jul 3, 2015)

Yes Bill availability is the problem. I live out in the boon docks and there is no small lot supplier unless I make a 50 mile trip. So I'm limited to TSC and Fastenal for metal at the moment. I'm sure once I start turning more material making a trip to a proper supplier will be worth while. But for now I'm restricted to whats available locally. For now I'll most likely be going with material that is 1/6 over size so I can get a nice finish.


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## RJSakowski (Jul 3, 2015)

Wheresmywrench? said:


> Great thanks for the replies and I'm new at this. I have a Emco Maximat V10-P. My greatest concern is for a nice finished look.How is cold rolled steel for working with? I want to use it to get some practice in with as it's cheap to buy.


Stock diameter depends upon the intended function of your part and on your equipment.  In some cases, The as received stock O.D. is sufficient; surface finish is acceptable and roundness and concentricity are not an issue.  For instance, if I were making a 1/2" long spacer , 1/4" I.D. , 1/2" O.D. to offset a plate, the concentricity of the  the I.D to O.D., the O.D. finish, and the actual O.D. are not critical so I would just use 1/2" rod and drill the 1/4" hole and cut to length.  If I were making a press fit bushing to serve as a bearing for a shaft, O.D., roundness, and surface finish are critical so I would select a stock diameter that would permit me to clean up the O.D.

Things to consider when selecting stock:   1. stock is seldom truly round   2. stock is seldom truly straight,   3. lathe chucks seldom have zero runout   4. actual stock diameters are often different than nominal.  
If you are buying stock from a vendor like McMaster Carr, MSC, or Enco, they give tolerances for the nominal diameter.  If you are buying from a local DIY, take along your calipers if the diameter is critical.

One final thought.  I, as well as many others, I'm sure, am guilty of designing things with nice round numbers for dimensions which can mean that I have to go to the next larger size stock.  If you have the freedom to pick your dimensions, it would be wise to design with slightly smaller dimensions than available stock sizes


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## Wreck™Wreck (Jul 3, 2015)

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## kingmt01 (Jul 3, 2015)

It also depends on how round or exact you need something. Some of the stock I've used needs turned down quite a bit before it is even round. If it is pitted you my run out of material before you get the pits out.

Taking a skim cut on scale is hard on the tool & hard to get the correct size on. I like to be able to take .020" on my first cut.


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## coolidge (Jul 3, 2015)

Wheresmywrench? said:


> Yes Bill availability is the problem. I live out in the boon docks and there is no small lot supplier unless I make a 50 mile trip. So I'm limited to TSC and Fastenal for metal at the moment. I'm sure once I start turning more material making a trip to a proper supplier will be worth while. But for now I'm restricted to whats available locally. For now I'll most likely be going with material that is 1/6 over size so I can get a nice finish.



You have a Metal Supermarkets in Hamilton, they sell small quantities by the inch with free cutting. I raided my local Metal Supermarkets rem pile yesterday and scored some nice stainless priced by the pound.

http://metalsupermarkets.com/hamilton/


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## mikey (Jul 3, 2015)

Wheresmywrench? said:


> Great thanks for the replies and I'm new at this. I have a Emco Maximat V10-P. My greatest concern is for a nice finished look.How is cold rolled steel for working with? I want to use it to get some practice in with as it's cheap to buy.



I would suggest 12L14 to practice on. Cheap and can be bought on ebay for okay prices. It cuts easily and will teach you a lot about how metal likes to be cut.


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## NightWing (Jul 3, 2015)

Also, be sure to order a piece long enough to have something to grip onto for machining and cutting off the last piece.


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## mksj (Jul 3, 2015)

Wheresmywrench? said:


> Yes Bill availability is the problem. I live out in the boon docks and there is no small lot supplier unless I make a 50 mile trip.



I would checkout Enco when they have a 20% off sale and free shipping, I just ordered another assortment of their steel drill rods (usually oil hardened) in different sizes and also some aluminum.  Tolerances and finish are very good (+/-0.001" with a concentrically of 0.005"), the drill rod machines well on my lathe. If you need closer tolerances or slightly over sized then move up to the next size rod (usually 1/64th up to 1"). With free shipping, their prices are hard to beat, and there is also web pricing on the more common sizes which is lower then the regular pricing. An example: 3/4" Oil Hardened Steel Drill rod 3 feet was $11.27 delivered from Enco; on eBay a similar 12L14 stock would be 3X more.  I also have picked up 1018 cold rolled steel and 6061 aluminum  from local supplies in larger sizes, shipping becomes prohibitive. There are many variations on metal stock, how they machine and what metallurgic properties you need. This is just an example.

Example of a turned tap holder for my mill machined from the drill rod stock.



	

		
			
		

		
	
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## Wreck™Wreck (Jul 3, 2015)

mikey said:


> I would suggest 12L14 to practice on. Cheap and can be bought on ebay for okay prices. It cuts easily and will teach you a lot about how metal likes to be cut.



Actually 12L14 will not teach you much about machining any steel other then 12L14 (or its lead free replacement 1215/1212), it is a free machining steel developed strictly for rapid/easy cutting. You can get a nice finish on these steels without trying very hard and the ease of cutting means there will be little deflection of the part or tool, they also will not chatter under reasonable conditions.

 As a very important added bonus it is incapable of forming a stringy chip, lathe chips come off similar to 360 free machining brass, small discreet pieces.

Don't forget the possible lead poisoning (-:

Very difficult to weld and cannot be hardened, has low tensile strength and poor abrasion resistance.

As can be seen by its machinability rating it is roughly 2 1/2 times easier to machine then 1018 cold rolled.

I have turned and milled a good deal of it.


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## mikey (Jul 3, 2015)

Wreck™Wreck said:


> Actually 12L14 will not teach you much about machining any steel other then 12L14 (or its lead free replacement 1215/1212), it is a free machining steel developed strictly for rapid/easy cutting. You can get a nice finish on these steels without trying very hard and the ease of cutting means there will be little deflection of the part or tool, they also will not chatter under reasonable conditions.
> 
> As a very important added bonus it is incapable of forming a stringy chip, lathe chips come off similar to 360 free machining brass, small discreet pieces.
> 
> ...



Yup, all of this is true. However, I recommended it from the standpoint that nothing succeeds like success, especially for a new guy like the OP. Better to begin with 12L14 instead of buying 1018 from the hardware store and then wondering why his tool is cutting like a rutted road, only to find that this is how 1018 likes to cut. Better to learn to turn a thread easily with good thread form so he learns to screw cut before trying it on 4140 or 303. Better to bore a clean hole that he can learn to bring to dimension reliably while he learns about cutting forces. 

Sure, 12L14 cuts easily and nicely, which makes it simple for the new guy to learn to do new stuff on his new lathe. In the beginning, easy is good so he can succeed. As he improves and gains skill he can carry what he learned forward and apply it to new materials, learning to adjust to them as he grows.


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## royesses (Jul 3, 2015)

Online metals ships to Canada. If you sign up for the email notifications they send you a 20% off code on your first order and 10 to 20% off each month. They ship fast.


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## markknx (Jul 9, 2015)

With larger material you will need to leave more do to % tolerances. I have seen 1" rods that would only net about .875 once turned. Try these guys check their prices against on line metal Some time better some times not. Make sure to consider shipping costs. Watch their fire sales I have got some pretty good deal out of there.
http://www.speedymetals.com/default.aspx?
Mark


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## nuturner (Jul 9, 2015)

Wheresmywrench? said:


> Simply how much larger should the material you select to turn be then the finished part. I'm talking about when you go out and buy a rod for a specific job.Lets say finished size 1/2 inch should it be 1/16" or 1/8" larger in diameter?


"How much larger ... " is a pretty broad question.  Obviously, it needs to be larger than the finished job requires but for a 1/2 inch finished size anything over 1/2 inch would work.  The objective, as I see it, is to start with material that is near the finished size and only slightly larger.  As a rule thumb I try to start with a 1/16 inch margin.  That allow me to true up the material and still have enough to obtain the finished dimensions I'm looking for.  However, in a pinch, I admit to having started with 1 inch material to make a finished 1/2 inch size.  Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.


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## Wheresmywrench? (Jul 10, 2015)

Makes sense to me nuturner, I guess its going to be a matter of trial and error for me. The better I get the finish the less I'll need to go over size on the material.


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## brino (Jul 10, 2015)

Hi Folks,

Thanks to those that posted some metal suppliers that ship to Canada, however, wow that shipping is expensive!
I realize that this is only one piece of data, and sure it is 4 feet long, but shipping costs really are limiting.......

-brino


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## NightWing (Jul 10, 2015)

Another source of material that you can often get for free is from screw machine shops.  You can usually get bar ends for nothing.  Now and then you could score some brass or aluminum.  Diameters and material will be hodge podge but it never hurts to ask.


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## Wheresmywrench? (Jul 10, 2015)

You can also check with your local Fastenal outlet same prices as US without the shipping and you may only have to  wait a couple days for it.


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## TTD (Jul 10, 2015)

If you already have a business account with Fastenal then you're good to go, but if not, forget it...at least around here (Ottawa, Ont.) I went there a few weeks ago to purchase/order some stuff and they said "no-can-do". Apparently they are getting out of sales to the general public,  "business accounts" only (much like Acklunds Grainger) .

So I went to Metal Supermarkets instead. Pricier than Fastenal for sure, but at least I got what I was after...same day too! (which was good seeing as it's a 2-2.5 hr round trip for me).

Metal Supermarket's price compared to the Online Metals quote that Brino showed:  https://ecommerce.metalsupermarkets.com/Cart.aspx


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## RJSakowski (Jul 10, 2015)

TTD said:


> If you already have a business account with Fastenal then you're good to go, but if not, forget it...at least around here (Ottawa, Ont.) I went there a few weeks ago to purchase/order some stuff and they said "no-can-do". Apparently they are getting out of sales to the general public,  "business accounts" only (much like Acklunds Grainger) .


I hope that is not true for the US.  We have a Fastenal outlet locally, and when I needed some metric cap screws for an oil pan replacement, they were the only game in town.  Twenty screws at about $.18 each; I felt guilty at not buying more.  I did tell the counter man upfront that it was a cash sale though so he had the right to refuse it if he chose.  My first encounter was work related where I went in for a screw that we needed to finish a project and the cost was $.03.  I really felt guilty then!  He even put the screw in a plastic bag for me.


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## JimDawson (Jul 10, 2015)

RJSakowski said:


> I hope that is not true for the US.  We have a Fastenal outlet locally, and when I needed some metric cap screws for an oil pan replacement, they were the only game in town.  Twenty screws at about $.18 each; I felt guilty at not buying more.  I did tell the counter man upfront that it was a cash sale though so he had the right to refuse it if he chose.  My first encounter was work related where I went in for a screw that we needed to finish a project and the cost was $.03.  I really felt guilty then!  He even put the screw in a plastic bag for me.



In my area Fastenal only sells in package lots.  They started that a couple years ago.  But IMHO, why buy just one when 100 will do.  Keeps my shelves stocked.


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## Wheresmywrench? (Jul 11, 2015)

Well we are in a rural area and there's not enough industry to take a industry only stand. Lots of small business and agriculture plus a large metal supplier already in town so Fastenal is more of a in between supplier here.


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## brino (Jul 11, 2015)

So far my best local metal supplier has been a metal recyclers in an adjacent small town. They pay for scrap and also sell new steel to industry.....but best of all they will let me walk around the yard and dig thru the piles. You gotta know what your looking for, but the used stuff is waaaaay cheaper than the new.



TTD said:


> So I went to Metal Supermarkets instead. Pricier than Fastenal for sure, but at least I got what I was after...same day too! (which was good seeing as it's a 2-2.5 hr round trip for me).



Hi Todd, This might be a good source for you too, is is Falls Iron in Smith's Falls.
http://www.companylisting.ca/Falls_Iron_Metal/default.aspx

There is an auto recycler to the South, but these guys are to the North, right on the corner.

-brino


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## TTD (Jul 11, 2015)

Thank you very much for the tip, Brino...it's greatly appreciated! 



brino said:


> ...but best of all they will let me walk around the yard and dig thru the piles.



Oh man, talk about the proverbial "kid in a candy store"...I'll be right in heaven!


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## janvanruth (Jul 13, 2015)

nowadays i get all my matarial from the metal recycler in the next town, 10 km away
in rods i look especially for the end parts, as they have the paint indicating the material code on them
it pays to visit every now and then and get some material to put in stock


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## Wheresmywrench? (Jul 17, 2015)

Metal recycler here won't sell any metal to anyone. Car parts yes but not any useable metal.


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## Wheresmywrench? (Jul 27, 2015)

Metal Supermarket wants $15 for a 16" piece of 12L14 plus the cost of gas to go pick it up, about $20. The 16" is all they have. At that price it's cheaper to have it sent from the US. I can get 6 ft from the US for $14 plus shipping from Speedy Metals. And Metal Supermarket is hit and miss for what I want to buy right now. I just heard from a second Metal Supermarket shop and the best they can do is $15.80 for a 5/8in 3 ft piece of 12L14! 5/8in is the smallest diameter they have. But big difference in price for the same material from two outlets of the same company. We have 3 outlets all at the same distance from us about 1 1/2 hour drives.
So 6 ft is $31.60 then I have to drive 3 hrs round trip, traffic will probably make it a longer trip so it will more likely be a 4 hour trip . Add the gas another $20-$25  and ware and tare on vehicle. So I'm now looking at $55-$60 for the piece of metal.


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## mikey (Jul 27, 2015)

I live in Hawaii and understand shipping costs - they can be killers. I usually email an ebay seller to see if they will work with me to get the shipping costs down and most of them are willing to do so. You might give that a try. That stock is sitting on their shelves, not earning its keep so ...


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## Wheresmywrench? (Jul 27, 2015)

Your right on working with them on shipping cost. I've done that with many things from Ebay. But now that a lot of sellers are using Ebays international shipping program us Canadians are getting robbed by Ebay. They are charging inflated shipping and duty/customs charges on items that are duty free and then they add a disclaimer saying the buyer is responsible for addition fees. This is just a money grab by Ebay and I refuse to buy from sellers that use this system. I usually contact the seller and tell them that the item is duty free, ALL printed material is duty and customs free as with anything under $100.


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## mikey (Jul 27, 2015)

It's starting to sound like your best option. I think most ebay sellers would be willing to work with you, especially if you can convince them that anything under $100.00 is duty-free. Good luck with this - shipping metal can get expensive.


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## Wheresmywrench? (Jul 29, 2015)

I ordered what I needed from Speedy Metal. Why? Because I could not get 12L14 in anything less then 5/8" I have no need for that dia. also it would cost me just as much to go get it as it will to buy the size I need and have it shipped from the US.


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