# Do You Have A Creative Mind? I Don't!



## Janderso (Nov 25, 2019)

Here I have been blessed with a nice home, a supportive and wonderful wife that I adore, the shop is well lit, has climate control, 3-phase and all the important machine and hand tools to do some fine work..
So far I have made a few parts, done some work for co-workers and made some simple tools.
I will continue to make some fixturing-hold down tools but I don't know what else to do.
I had plans to buy older American iron machine tools I found on Craigslist and refurbish them just to resell.
If you have ever gone through that process it's a labor of love, I don't think I could part with a newly rebuilt usable machine tool.

Do you suffer from a rigid mind?
Do you see straight lines when other people see curves?
Do you see black and white while others may see beautiful colors of the rainbow?
Oh how I suffer.


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## markba633csi (Nov 25, 2019)

Jeff I don't know about the creative part but I get too many projects going at once and therefore progress on each one seems to crawl sometimes
Maybe you enjoy the rebuilding part more than the using part?  
Years ago my brother wanted to buy old cars and fix them up to sell- problem was we fell in love with all the little quirky cars he brought home and couldn't part with them either- one of them, a Datsun 411, was so cute- I still remember it
Mark


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## Meta Key (Nov 25, 2019)

For me, machining has been to support my other interests.  (Primarily Amateur Radio and motorcycles.)  And, of course, stuff around the house and stuff for friends.  These keep my project list overflowing.

As you might expect, machining has become yet another hobby with it's own set of fascinations.  I kinda admire the guys who build up a full-on machine shop just for the sake of doing so.  They seem to really enjoy the process of perfecting what they have and are always on the hunt for ways to improve their shop and their capabilities.  It seems so idyllic and peaceful..

I will admit that sometimes I go out to the shop and just sit there, enjoying what I see.  It's a great place, full of fun and interesting things.  Hey, TOOLS!  The smell of VACTRA!  What could possibly be better?

Invariably, after a bit of this sort of "shop meditation" something will catch my eye and the next thing you know, I'm looking for just the right piece of stock because there is suddenly an overwhelming need to build Project-X (whatever that might be).  Letting the old brain relax for a little while usually leads to all sorts of mayhem inspiration.  

MK


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## markba633csi (Nov 25, 2019)

Enjoy 'em while you got 'em


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## mmcmdl (Nov 25, 2019)

Janderso said:


> Here I have been blessed with a nice home, a supportive and wonderful wife that I adore, the shop is well lit, has climate control, 3-phase and all the important machine and hand tools to do some fine work..
> So far I have made a few parts, done some work for co-workers and made some simple tools.
> I will continue to make some fixturing-hold down tools but I don't know what else to do.
> I had plans to buy older American iron machine tools I found on Craigslist and refurbish them just to resell.
> ...



Jeff , I had a nice shop at one time . I did things for fun and back then it WAS fun . I then started machining parts for companies and got paid for it . The fun was not in the equation any longer . I stopped the business back in 93 and moved 2 houses up the street . Since that point on , I myself have nothing to make . I have 15 or 200 of whatever I need or don't need !  The fun back then was going to the auctions and building up the shop and tooling , meeting people in your trade , experimenting and continually learning . We don't have the auctions around here any longer since the market place has become global . So anyway , I got into restoring older high quality lawn tractors . CCs , Harvesters , Deeres etc . The machine tools supported me in doing that .

I spent all day yesterday hauling buckets of tooling down into the basement and sorting them out . In a single small drawer were 173 countersinks and spotting drills . You wanna talk about end mills ? 1000s , for what ? Why would I ever need any more than 100 end mills for what I do , and I've been taking them into work for 2 years because they don't supply me with them .

I told the wife yesterday I need a new hobby . We used to travel regularly for the kids sports but last year was the end of that . I'm going to back the tooling down to a reasonable amount and find something interesting to do in the time I have left . I'll make parts I'm sure , but I won't be sorting thru 10s of thousands of tooling much longer …………………..I'm getting there .


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## Superburban (Nov 25, 2019)

Creative mind? no. Mechanical yes. I can picture, Design, fix, and make mechanical things, but seeing how two colors will work together? not me. Helping the Better half pick out material for a project of hers? nope, sorry. When the Wife asks if this color pants go with this shirt, usually the answer is yes, gave up a long time ago trying to explain that I cannot picture color coordination.


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## JimDawson (Nov 25, 2019)

So the real question is: Now that I have it, what do I do with it? 

If I had to go out into the shop and figure out a project just to make chips, I would be lost.  Like Meta Key my shop was put together to support other activities.  I want a well equipped shop to be able to build or repair any project I decide to tackle, just another set of tools in the box.  I never liked machining just to do it, it is really not a hobby for me and I have never considered myself to be a machinist.  I do enjoy the problem solving aspect of the work.

If I need a special tool or other piece of hardware, I'm more likely to buy it off the shelf if it's available.  All of the projects I have posted on H-M over the years were done to facilitate another project that was the real end goal.  Sometimes I do modify machine tools to increase productivity or simply make them easier to operate.


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## eugene13 (Nov 25, 2019)

Meta Key said:


> I will admit that sometimes I go out to the shop and just sit there, enjoying what I see. It's a great place, full of fun and interesting things. Hey, TOOLS! The smell of VACTRA! What could possibly be better?


Exactly, my definition of a "MAN CAVE".


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## Janderso (Nov 25, 2019)

I agree with, machining isn't fun unless there is a purpose.
Last night after dinner, I took a piece of brass hex stock and made a perfect 1" long, 5/16" x 18 TPI bolt. Why?
Just to kill some time before bed time. My skills have greatly improved from a year ago.
I need challenges to make it fun. That rotary table for example, That thing has me scratching my head, I need to practice with that.

I love the smell of machine lubricants too. Growing up around a Ford garage gives me peace of mind when I go into a shop.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 25, 2019)

The smell of Kroil and diesel fuel , MMmmmmm………………...good !


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## Cadillac (Nov 25, 2019)

That's a tough one. I kind of believe your born with it to a point and learn more along the way. I was taking screws off the door hinges as soon as I figured out which way to turn the screwdriver, pulled apart the snow blower when my dad was at work and I was left alone in the garage. It finally got put back together in my teenage yrs when I learn how to assemble engines. 
 Part of it is how you look at things as a whole or break it down to pieces. It all breaks down into parts or pieces. 
 It's definitely hard don't get me wrong,it's even harder at least for me is to design something and have it all portioned and laid out correct. Meaning fastener sizes, to spacing, enough material for strength and so on. I don't have cad which would greatly help that design aspect but you still have to come up with it? Try reengineering stuff you can use that's what I tend to do saves you some money "hopefully" and you learn a great deal in the process from how it's made to how to make it.


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## PHPaul (Nov 25, 2019)

Creative in the artistic sense?  Only in the very broadest sense.  My wife tells me all my taste is in my mouth.   

Creative in the sense of finding out-of-the-box solutions to challenges?  Guilty.  Not genius-level certainly, but I can usually find a way around a problem.

I'm not, nor ever will be a "machinist".  That drive for perfection is just not in me.  I'm a firm believer in "good enough".  My joy in life is making useful things out of whatever I have laying around, preferably without spending any money, or at least as little as possible.  Right now I'm building a paint shaker for quart and smaller cans.  1/8 HP electric motor that's been up on a shelf in the shop for 30 years.  At 3750 RPM, MUCH too fast, so go down the the tool shed by the barn and rummage around...hmmmmm....20:1 right angle gearbox.  That should work.  1/2 shaft on the motor, 5/8ths on the gearbox, so off to the lathe to make a coupler.  Fire up the drill press with my biggest hole saw and cut a disk out of a scrap of 1/2" aluminum plate for the crankshaft.  Back to the lathe to clean it up.  Use the mill to drill some cotter pin holes in the crank arm.  Use the little lathe to make a delrin bushing for the shaker end.  Etc. Etc.

When I'm done, I'll have two full days of fun and Zero dollars in it.


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## savarin (Nov 25, 2019)

Creative? I believe I have a smidgen of that elusive stuff still in there somewhere but often I think I may have used it all up.
For the creative side I usually need the materials actually in my hands to come up with something.
An example is the little steam engine I'm attempting to make. That started when I saw an offcut from a chunk of steel plate and wondered if I could make a one piece crankshaft from it.
There are no plans just some random ideas in my head that may or may not work out but its worth a try.
I'm agonising over how to work out the throttle and reversing gear at present as I have only a very very rough idea of how they work and looking at examples from locomotives I just cant follow them. So a lot of research is required.
For me this is all hobby work as I learnt a long time ago that doing it for a customer means it has to work and then becomes a chore to do it on time.
I do have what I sometimes think is an added bonus in that I have zero format training in this field so I can try anything I want with no training or experience saying it cant be done that way.


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## C-Bag (Nov 25, 2019)

I only got into machining because I had to. It has been a total revelation that its scratched my creative itch.

My grandparents played music when they were young. My mom was an artist, painted and sculpted as a hobby. I wanted to be a cartoonist until the reality of putting food on the table set in and a I realized I wasn't good enough and I HATED sitting at a desk all day. My son makes his living as an online freelance artist. I still play mandolin.

But I'm not sure any of that stuff applies to what I'm doing in the shop. I had gotten to the point with my little home biz I needed to start automating stuff. And nobody makes what I make so there are no off the shelf machines to make it so I bought the lathe and the mill to make those machines. And like this has a way of doing it snowballed into buying old machines cheap and modifying them so I could make the tools to make the tools to make the tools. I also love spending as little as possible and repurposing instead of reinventing the wheel. Luckily it's been at a clip I can handle and there are so many different things in different stages I'm never bored.


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## Flyinfool (Nov 25, 2019)

Creative can mean very different things to different people. Being a design engineer I am always designing mechanical things. I design machinery, beauty is in the proper function. All of my artistic ability's can be put into a thimble with a lot of room left over. I can draw a straight line if I have a straight edge to follow, or a curved line with my compass or french curve. (OK I was designing and engineering long before computers were invented.) 

As others have mentioned my machines came about to support other hobbies, needs in those other hobbies are what generate most of the ideas for things to make.


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## Jubil (Nov 25, 2019)

Creative mind? Not me. I can copy things fairly well. My mom was an artist from sewing to ceramics to oil paintings. 2 of my brothers inherited her abilities.
Mechanically, I can hold my own (meaning I can insert round pegs in round holes ).
Wish I would have known or learned to do machine work at a younger age. Don't think I would have tried to make a living at it but I would have had more time to have fun. My wife says I spend time in the shop "playing". 
Chuck


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## C-Bag (Nov 25, 2019)

I'm glad I'm not alone is what a guy on another site called "visiting the tools"


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## westerner (Nov 25, 2019)

JimDawson said:


> I do enjoy the problem solving aspect of the work.


This is the heart and soul of my approach. The tools I have acquired are simply the means to this end. That said, I DO enjoy hitting my numbers now and then, but if the problem is solved and the numbers are "close", then "Mission Accomplished!"


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## Janderso (Nov 25, 2019)

Ok, tonight I thought I would use the gray matter and challenge myself. Some of you guys will just roll your eyes but others may be a bit interested to see how I make out.
Internal 
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 thread, 1 1/2”, 6 tpi.
Never done it. I cut the bore to the minimum ID 1.425”.
I hope I have that right, I want to end up with 1 1/2” thread depth.
Comments from you eye rollers are welcomed


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## Bob Korves (Nov 25, 2019)

Just go for it, Jeff.  It is not different than external threading except it is harder to see what you are doing.  You do not really need to see anything in the hole until after the cut is finished.  You can use a piece of tape or Sharpie mark on the threading/boring bar to show the end of the thread position when the mark enters the work.  You can do the threading from the inside out, which is a whole lot less stressful.  Use a really slow speed until YOU get up to speed with it.  As with everything machining, practice makes perfect...


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## MikeInOr (Nov 26, 2019)

I am looking forwards to seeing your setup and results.

I have always believed that a person will learn a little when they make a part correctly for the first time... but they will learn a whole lot more by making a part incorrectly multiple times... at least that is how it works for me.  I guess that is why I really enjoy it when a person posts their screw ups ass well as their successes, then I can learn from their mistakes.

P.S. I don't believe that mechanical ability and creative thinking are necessarily an inherited trait or a talent people are born with.  When my sister married my Brother In Law 30 years ago he could just barely tie his own shoes and never had any interest in making anything.  They bought a 100+ year old house that wasn't maintained very well and had more holes in it than wall.  My father spent a good amount of time traveling down there,a week at a time especially after he retired, to help them out.  I think one of the first jobs they tackled was the knob-and-tube wiring in the living room.  Another trip was replacing a rusted out cast iron  sewer pipe... etc. etc.  Having someone to show him how to do things gave him the knowledge and confidence to tackle projects on their own.  Their house now has all new wiring and plumbing throughout and is a very nice house.  One of the projects my father helped him with was some built in cabinets in their bedroom.  15 years later my brother in law finally built a set of cherry stile and rail doors that turned out beautifully and now he has started making some pretty impressive furniture.  Actually THEY are making some pretty impressive furniture... my brother in law builds with some help along the way from my sister and my sister finishes the wood working projects.

One of the lessons my Brother In Law learned himself along the way is to put a "do not flush" sign on the toilet before working on the sewer lines.   lol


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## Janderso (Nov 26, 2019)

I’d be out there this morning but I promised my neighbor I wouldn’t run any machines before 7.
I think I will cut the relief to 1.500” then thread from the inside out. (Wait, won’t that make left handed threads?) 
Just kidding.

Mike, I like the story about your sister and brother in law and the old house. I know I improved my skills around the house when I didn’t try to get everything done in one day.


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## bakrch (Nov 26, 2019)

I have been called an "artist" more than once, especially related to the hobby end of my machining.

I have difficulty accepting compliments, and just rationalize that the person just doesn't know any better to think otherwise. My focus is always on learning the next thing, and appreciating what I see on here that I do not know how to do yet.


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## Janderso (Nov 26, 2019)

I haven’t used the Carmex internal threading tool. I noticed it has quite a negative rake.
The Carmex kit came with two sizes of 3 way 60 degree inserts. I haven’t measured yet but I may need the larger of the two for this thread. The relief will need to be wide enough to allow for the tool.
This is fun stuff.


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## Janderso (Nov 26, 2019)

Hugh, the pics didn’t load properly. First time for that to happen.


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## Bob Korves (Nov 26, 2019)

Amazingly, negative rake tools work quite well for internal work.  I have found if I am getting chatter with the tool on center and 90 degrees to the work, rotating the bar to a negative rake and re-centering the tool height to center makes for very nice cuts.  Now, I often do it on purpose.  Cheap Chinese brazed carbide tools also respond quite well to this, stops the bottom of the cutting edge from rubbing the work.


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## Janderso (Nov 26, 2019)

Oops, I just realized, I need to turn the tool upside down and work from the back side if I'm going inside out.
I would have figured it out sooner or later.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 26, 2019)

Janderso said:


> Oops, I just realized, I need to turn the tool upside down and work from the back side if I'm going inside out.
> I would have figured it out sooner or later.



Yep , it'll work better that way .


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## DavidR8 (Nov 26, 2019)

This is a complete aside but somewhat related to the idea of creativity. 

My partner and I were discussing capabilities and we talked about multiple intelligences. 
This article is interesting. 

The context for me is that I love music but struggle to learn an instrument. 









						Gardner's Theory of Multiple Intelligences
					

The theory of multiple intelligences suggests eight types of intelligence that people may possess. Learn more about the theory, the types, and how to use it.




					www.verywellmind.com
				




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Janderso (Nov 26, 2019)

Jubil said:


> My wife says I spend time in the shop "playing".
> Chuck


I think that statement is quite popular coming from our better halves. I know my wife often refers to that same line of reasoning.


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## Janderso (Nov 26, 2019)

DavidR8 said:


> The context for me is that I love music but struggle to learn an instrument.


Ha, that is so true. I wanted so bad to play the saxaphone when I was in grade school. After 3 months I couldn't play the scale. Gave it up and listen to Van Morrison.


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## markba633csi (Nov 26, 2019)

For me, having projects going is the whole point of being alive. In fact, since I have arthritis in my back and am in a bit of pain most of the time, having something to work on helps to distract me and helps to reduce the need to take pain meds.  Having animals around helps too.  And good friends, like those on HM, to bounce ideas off of.   
Mark


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## Bob Korves (Nov 26, 2019)

I admit to my wife up front that I am "playing in the shop."  Having fun, too!  No redeeming value required, fun is all a hobby machinist needs from his/her work.


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## Janderso (Nov 26, 2019)

markba633csi said:


> In fact, since I have arthritis in my back and am in a bit of pain most of the time


I feel your pain, same here. In fact, with the weather change today, my fingers and lower back are having a ball.


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## jbolt (Nov 26, 2019)

I love machining. I wanted to be a machinist. Early in my career I worked in a R&D shop for 5 years. Loved every minute of it (well almost).  What I enjoyed most was not just making parts but figuring out how to hold the stock, what machines & tools to use, making jigs and fixtures in such a way as to be efficient with work flow and maintain the level of precision and repeatability required.  There just wasn't any money in it in the mid 80's. I worked with a number of very experienced machinists who were amazingly talented and I learned a tremendous amount from them but they were barely making enough to get by. I went into residential construction and within a year was making almost double what a journeyman machinist in our area was making. I always thought is was unfair since the level of skill and knowledge for a gifted machinist was far more than as carpenter. 

I enjoyed my time as a carpenter and general contractor when I could work with my tools but like most jobs the real money is in managing people which has a way of sucking the fun out of everything. 

Machining and fabrication as a hobby is my sanity check from daily work life. I have dozens of projects waiting to be done when I have more time and space in a few years. Always love to learn new things and different ways of doing them.

As t the OP's topic of creativity. One does not have to be artistic to be creative. Simply taking someone else's idea and remaking it your own way or coming up with a different way of doing something is being creative.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 26, 2019)

I completely agree with you @jbolt. For years I lamented the fact that I wasn't creative but my wise partner points out my creativity on a regular basis. Most of the time it's problem solving, figuring out how to do something efficiently and 99% of the time, how to do it by myself.


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## brino (Nov 27, 2019)

Janderso said:


> ast night after dinner, I took a piece of brass hex stock and made a perfect 1" long, 5/16" x 18 TPI bolt. Why?
> Just to kill some time before bed time.



That sure beats watching the so called "reality" TV crap.
-brino


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## Janderso (Nov 27, 2019)

brino,
My wife watches those, singing talent shows. 
Yeah, I'd rather be in my heated shop.


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## Janderso (Nov 27, 2019)

Been talking to Bob about this.
Turns out I don't have a left handed internal threading tool holder or tool.
I am switching to HSS and a boring bar to single point the threads.
I'll post the outcome when I get time to "play in my shop"


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## C-Bag (Nov 27, 2019)

DavidR8 said:


> This is a complete aside but somewhat related to the idea of creativity.
> 
> My partner and I were discussing capabilities and we talked about multiple intelligences.
> This article is interesting.
> ...


Interesting, but people don't drop completely in those categories IMHO. Some of those catagories I have some of but not all. And I've known some people who were called those things and didn't have those traits.

Anybody who's had to manage a team of people will tell you it's a wonderful thing everybody is different because there truly is somebody for every job. I go insane if I have to do a single repetitive thing. Where another guy would hate to have to figure out something, then make it. I was happiest at my last wage slave tour doing R&D, especially refining a design then making the tooling and jigs to manufacture it. Then go on to the next project. Always something new. Especially where I had access to the whole facility, fab, machine and engineering. The pay was pathetic but the work was satisfying. So having a mini version of all that stuff at home is too much fun. Sux it happening so late in life, oh well, better late than never.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 27, 2019)

Jeff , I played the Tenor up into 7 grade , then dropped it and got into sports . I have a King Super 20 Tenor sitting upstairs in the attic that I am the original owner of .


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## Janderso (Nov 28, 2019)

This will do it, I think.


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## westerner (Nov 28, 2019)

jbolt said:


> like most jobs the real money is in managing people which has a way of sucking the fun out of everything.


How this relates to a creative mind, I am not sure. I am, however, quite sure of the truth of this statement. Sorry, Jeff.  Hijack over


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## Janderso (Nov 29, 2019)

Well I found Bozo in my shop.
I got the boring bar set up with my freshly ground 60 degree HSS tool, centered the bit with a negative rake on center.
found zero on the cross slide, the compound is set to 29.5 degrees but I fed with the cross slide.
Made my first inside out pass and all was well with the world.
Backed out so I could plunge in for another pass, took another .005", perfect.
On the third pass I missed my mark on the thread dial.
Now that I screwed up my part I continued to practice the technique.
I don't know why I missed it, I put a little pressure when I am very close to my mark and it pops right in, smooth as glass.
It happened again while practicing.
I learned a lot.
I'll bore this out and try again later.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 I must say, there is no stress because I can't crash moving away from the head stock.


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## Janderso (Nov 30, 2019)

SUCCESS!!!

I did it. I changed to 10 Tpi.
This has been a confidence building endeavor.
I learned quite a bit as well.


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## C-Bag (Nov 30, 2019)

Janderso said:


> SUCCESS!!!
> 
> I did it. I changed to 10 Tpi.
> This has been a confidence building endeavor.
> I learned quite a bit as well.


Good job!


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## AGCB97 (Dec 6, 2019)

Show me a pic of your shop or junk pile or whatever and I'll give you some ideas for projects. I must think of at least 10 new projects every week but of course only a few get started and only a few of them get finished. 
Aaron


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## C-Bag (Dec 6, 2019)

It dawns on me the major difference is I have mostly a shop full of used HF stuff that I either have to fix or modify. And because it's not nice old iron I don't feel bad about modding what I'd like to change to fit what I'm doing. 

Just yesterday as I was using my 4x6 bandsaw as I was having to change angles all the time to do mitre cuts it was all I could do to not stop and start fabbing a t-nut for the vise to replace the silly regular nut that you have to have wrenches for top and bottom. It is definitely on the endless list!


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## Winegrower (Dec 6, 2019)

Regarding creativity, my firm belief is that people who boast about their creativity are generally way overshooting, and people who are most creative don't really think they are.    

This opinion is formed after 50 years of managing high technology development teams, where there were plenty of creative ideas along with even more bad ones.


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## FanMan (Dec 6, 2019)

Flyinfool said:


> Creative can mean very different things to different people. Being a design engineer I am always designing mechanical things. I design machinery, beauty is in the proper function. All of my artistic ability's can be put into a thimble...



"Creativity" isn't necessarily artistic, you can be creating anything  that didn't exist before, be it a painting, a symphony, a poem... or a machine.  I'm a design engineer, too... I have a friend who's an artist, a painter of some note.  One day I happened to be  looking at his website, where he has a blog where he was describing the  process of creating a particular painting.  He was talking about what he wanted  it to look like  overall, and the process of arranging the shapes, the colors, their  relationship, etc... it struck me that it's the  exact same thing I do designing a  new machine, having an  overall concept, designing and arranging the  components, making  them work together, etc.  Next time I  saw  him I told him about it, he was blown away.  Like many people he always  thought of engineering as dry boring number  crunching (and I guess it can be that, too, if you are, say, a structural analysis engineer or a quality assurance engineer, but that's not me), he never imagined it could be just as creative a profession as fine arts.

I've always  said that Enzo Ferrari was an artist whose medium wasn't paint or music but automobiles.   And some of the toolmakers I work with in my day job are extremely creative, making all sorts of fixtures and mechanisms with no drawings, just an idea.


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