# Southbend 10l Or 16 Inch X 60 Southbend Which Would You Choose?



## Rodney Young (Jun 5, 2016)

I am  newbie to lathes period...... never mine the larger ones. I like the idea of the 10L as I understand it will accomodate most rifle barrels, other than that it is actually much larger than what I need for making reloading dies, some rifle parts molds etc. Having said that, I find myself in a situation where I can likely get either one for about the same price once I buy tooling and repairs for the 10L as the 10L needs some work and comes without any tooling, the 16 inch is ready to go and comes with a 3 jaw chuck , steady rest, and some tooling (waiting for pictures and description).
  The actual space they will take up is similar as both are underdrive but it appears that the 16" wheighs about double what the 10L does so I will have to pay at least $500.00 or more just to have the 16 delivered as I can tale the 10L apart and transport it myself.
  Next question would be if I bought both would most of the tooling from the 16 work on the 10L? I know the chuck would have to be under 10" to be interchangeable but do they both use the same type of tools for the tail stock and the head stock? I might be able to get them, mix and match then sell one to recoup some of my costs and still end up with a good deal.
  Is the tool post holder the same, what else would interchange between the two?
  Rodney


----------



## DoogieB (Jun 5, 2016)

There's a pretty big difference between a 10" and 16" lathe.  You would have very little tool overlap and no parts overlap.

When you are just starting out, it's hard enough to get one lathe tooled-up and running much less two.


----------



## Rodney Young (Jun 5, 2016)

DoogieB said:


> There's a pretty big difference between a 10" and 16" lathe.  You would have very little tool overlap and no parts overlap.
> 
> When you are just starting out, it's hard enough to get one lathe tooled-up and running much less two.


Thanks DoogieB,
  Thats about what I think too, if there is little in common for tool use between them it won't work for me.
  Rodney


----------



## woodtickgreg (Jun 5, 2016)

A big lathe can work small stuff, but a small lathe can't work big stuff.
I love my 10L, a 16 might be a bit big for me, but I would love to find a nice 13.
A 16 will have more speeds, a bigger motor with more hp, and it may have a longer bed depending on the model. I have run a 16, it was a great lathe. Rock solid.


----------



## David VanNorman (Jun 5, 2016)

If  I had my druthers I would go with the 16 " . When you get to useing it you will find that the larger machine will do more. If it is in decent shape I would go with it.


----------



## DoogieB (Jun 6, 2016)

woodtickgreg said:


> A big lathe can work small stuff, but a small lathe can't work big stuff.



I've seen that quoted many times, but when I see an old 16" SB I see a lathe with a slow max spindle speed and a 100# chuck I wouldn't want to remove.  I like being able to swap chucks and collets around without much bother.  Even if I had the shop space I wouldn't want that old lathe because I don't do anything that requires that size and if I did I would want a more modern lathe with features like angular bearings for more spindle speed and a chuck brake.


----------



## Rodney Young (Jun 6, 2016)

DoogieB said:


> I've seen that quoted many times, but when I see an old 16" SB I see a lathe with a slow max spindle speed and a 100# chuck I wouldn't want to remove.  I like being able to swap chucks and collets around without much bother.  Even if I had the shop space I wouldn't want that old lathe because I don't do anything that requires that size and if I did I would want a more modern lathe with features like angular bearings for more spindle speed and a chuck brake.


  Thanks DoogieB,
  That was something I never even thought of...being short, fat, and lazy that may be a problem!!!
   Rodney


----------



## woodtickgreg (Jun 6, 2016)

I think the spindle on the 16 is the same size and pitch as the 10 and 13. So smaller chucks could be used. I also think the 16 has a 4 step spindle cone for speed changes, I don't know if it turns any faster though.


----------



## DoogieB (Jun 6, 2016)

The plain-bearing lathes always get slower as they get bigger.  Max spindle speed for a 16" could be anywhere from 750-950 RPMs, depending on the year of construction (bearings).


----------



## Splat (Jun 6, 2016)

Considering the shipping, overall size (I don't have room for a 16), and the spindle top speed....I'd go with the 10.... unless I needed a 16 which I haven't.... yet.


----------



## pineyfolks (Jun 7, 2016)

Top speed on a 16" is about 1000rpm. The spindle thread on mine is 2 3/8 - 6 and it has a 1 3/8 through hole. The length of the headstock plus a spider doesn't work well for barrel work, it's to long. You can build a fixture for your chuck for barrel work. A 10" would probably be a better home shop machine.  I probably use my 9" south bend more but it's limited by its 3/4"spindle bore


----------



## Rodney Young (Jun 7, 2016)

Thanks everyone,
  I have decided to go for the 10L based on the discussion here, I think the 16" would end up sitting idle if I ever had to change the chuck!
  Also parts availability for the 10L seems to be quite good out there as well as cheaper due to the smaller size. If I can make the deal I'm going to try to disassemble it and load it on my truck or snowmobile trailer. (another plus for the 10L as I can move it myself)
  Now just need to go see it and get an idea of the condition, looks pretty good in the pictures of course. It has been repainted and all the felts are new but it has no motor or drive belts and one of the gears for the back gear setup is broken/ teeth broken out from what I understand. I think the guy bought it for the tooling and may have broken it getting the chuck off?? Need to determine no other damage caused by this like a bent spindle or something!
  Rodney


----------



## DoogieB (Jun 7, 2016)

Cavaet emptor on a freshly rebuilt lathe that isn't running!  Why would you felt and paint a lathe and not spend the 5% more time to get it fully working?  Also not good he's busting backgear teeth off trying to remove a stuck chuck.


----------



## Rodney Young (Jun 7, 2016)

DoogieB said:


> Cavaet emptor on a freshly rebuilt lathe that isn't running!  Why would you felt and paint a lathe and not spend the 5% more time to get it fully working?  Also not good he's busting backgear teeth off trying to remove a stuck chuck.


Thanks DoogieB,
  I'm thinking the same thing but for the price he is asking I can part it out if there is too much damage or missing parts.
  Rodney


----------



## LucknowKen (Jun 7, 2016)

Hi Rodney: The lathe you describe sounds like a 10l on Kijiji.
I am supposed to look at it this week.
I'd rather not step on any toes.
Is the one you are after painted black?
If so i will pass on it.
LK


----------



## Splat (Jun 7, 2016)

If it's the SB lathe I found on Kijiji, black in color like Ken says, then it looks pretty nice. However I agree with Doogie. Why go thru all that, if the seller was the restorer, only to sell it? Either he found something he didn't at first see or thought he could fix and couldn't. I'd ask him more questions.


----------



## Rodney Young (Jun 7, 2016)

LucknowKen said:


> Hi Rodney: The lathe you describe sounds like a 10l on Kijiji.
> I am supposed to look at it this week.
> I'd rather not step on any toes.
> Is the one you are after painted black?
> ...


Hi Ken,
  Yes it is in Guelph,
  Just arranged earlier today to pick it up on Thursday. Not stepping on any toes if you had prior arrangements! There's always another one out there somewhere.
  Rodney


----------



## Rodney Young (Jun 7, 2016)

Splat said:


> If it's the SB lathe I found on Kijiji, black in color like Ken says, then it looks pretty nice. However I agree with Doogie. Why go thru all that, if the seller was the restorer, only to sell it? Either he found something he didn't at first see or thought he could fix and couldn't. I'd ask him more questions.


Hi Splat,
  I'll be checking as close as I can to see whats all there, he says its in pieces in his storage unit so I have to check if its all there. No motor or pulley, no belts or tooling but I like a challenge!
  Rodney


----------



## LucknowKen (Jun 7, 2016)

Hi Rodney: Congratulations on the lathe. I had only inquired, nothing more.
Hope that you get a great deal! BTW here is another interesting listing:
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/kenora/steel-lathe/1153754753?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
Check out the pail in the 5th pic.


----------



## Rodney Young (Jun 7, 2016)

LucknowKen said:


> Hi Rodney: Congratulations on the lathe. I had only inquired, nothing more.
> Hope that you get a great deal! BTW here is another interesting listing:
> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/kenora/steel-lathe/1153754753?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
> Check out the pail in the 5th pic.
> View attachment 130357


Yikes!! What a terrible way to treat your tools! looks like a steady rest and a follower rest...wonder what else is rotting in the bottom of the bucket?
  Rodney


----------



## Rodney Young (Jun 9, 2016)

So I made the deal today and picked up the lathe, a few issues and concerns of course with the broken bull gear... that chuck must have been reeeeaaly tight as the bull gear is missing teeth in at least 1/2 a dozen spots!! The back gear shaft seems to have a tight spot that indicates it may have been/likely was bent when the bull gear teeth were broken out. 
  Lots of play in the spindle but will figure that out. He had taken it apart and looks like it was not reassembled properly and torqued down. (hope I'm right)
 The guy I bought it from appears to have bought it for the motor, and a few other accessories. Came to me without any tooling including lack of tool post of any type. 
  He had a few accessories that we were able to make a deal on that was an awesome deal for me...this was one nice guy I must say, will post pictures tomorrow of the chuck, 5C drawbar assembly, follower rest, and a bunch of other stuff for the lathe that came as a separate deal.
  Was quite concerned about how the bed ways would be as it is impossible to tell from pictures but seem to be quite good for such an old machine will know more once I get it reassembled and check it out. Came in many seperate pieces which was good for me for loading on my trailer!!
  Rodney


----------



## LucknowKen (Jun 9, 2016)

Congrats on the 10l. There was a lot of accessories pictured in that listing.
Its good to find a seller on Kijiji that's easy to deal with.
Looking forward to some better pictures.


----------



## Rodney Young (Jun 9, 2016)

LucknowKen said:


> Congrats on the 10l. There was a lot of accessories pictured in that listing.
> Its good to find a seller on Kijiji that's easy to deal with.
> Looking forward to some better pictures.


Thanks Ken,
 A lot of the accessories pictured didn't make it to me but enough that I was very pleased with the purchase, will take pics tomorrow and post them. The seller was a very nice guy to deal with, pleasant .... and strong enough to get most of the parts on my trailer even without my help!!!! (what more can you ask for) 
  Rodney


----------



## Rodney Young (Jun 12, 2016)

So I disassembled the lathe into components so I could use my hand cart and get it into the garage by myself, (stupid is as stupid does).could have got some help but I knew I was going to disassemble every part anyway.
 Everything went pretty well, got the bed back on its feet in its new location, put the head stock and a bunch of parts on a rolling table and proceeded to roll it into the garage.......rolling cart is a cheapy princess auto with about 1 1/2 inch wheels. wheel hit the (very small) lip between the asphalt drive and the garage floor. Keep in mind that I was moving pretty slow but was paying more attention to not hitting my truck with the cart than what I was doing?
  The head stock isn't flat on any side unfortunately but rolls REAL good, right off the cart onto the nice soft cement floor. Realized what was happening just in time to grab it but couldn't hold on, sure hope no one was walking past as a few choice words were uttered in a rather loud voice as I stormed around the cart to see how many pieces the head stock was in. Fortunately (I guess) it appears to have landed on the back gear selector lever and the nut for the forward reverse selector. So the cost of my lathe just increased by the cost of the lever and the pivot shaft ......
  Good news is that as I am disassembling the component sections they all seem to be in good to very good condition.
  I purchased a used bull gear from Ebay and sourced a used Leeson 1.5 HP motor locally, now just need to get a set of pulleys and a belt and I will be well on my way to getting it back together.
  I'm going to concentrate on the drive system and the head stock for now then disassemble and check out the other sub assemblies once these are complete.
  Was worried about the play in the spindle assm. so that was one of my main priorities to assess the condition of the shaft and bushings. Appears to be quite good considering the age of the machine with Very light scoring of the spindle at the front bearing that you can just barely feel when you rub your hand over it and none at the rear. The bearings/ bushings appear to be in good condition, the reason for the play in the shaft is that someone appears to have decided that aluminum was a good shim material, they could be right but when the aluminum is about .010 to .015 too thick this can create just a bit of an issue!!! Of course the true test will be once I get the shims and get it set up properly.
  Will add some pictures soon.
  Rodney


----------



## Rodney Young (Jun 12, 2016)

So, first round of photos. I dumbed down the resolution on my camera so we'll see how these come out!
  All the tooling , the collet holder, the collet draw bar, the follower rest, the chuck and face plates etc. were a separate deal with the seller once I got a look at the lathe. The price was right though!
  Rodney


----------



## LucknowKen (Jun 12, 2016)

Good score Rodney. I was supposed to meet with Matt on the day you picked up your machine.
Glad to see that lathe end up hereon THM. Four hundred dollar South Bends last about twenty minutes on kijiji.
There was another South Bend 10 for sale in Guelph last month that was going for $1200.  You did good imho.
lk


----------



## Rodney Young (Jun 12, 2016)

Thanks Ken,
  The advantage to so many years experience in the automotive repair industry and then the heavy duty equipment side makes me not afraid of a basket case! Worked for many years on trucks, tractors, and other machinery from the 40s and 50s so this is like going home again!! Just love over built, over weight old stuff like this. Old 2 cylinder tractors with babbit bearings and huge pistons and combines with hard wood blocks for chain tensioners comes to mind.
  Rodney


----------

