# will this qctp fit a 10f?



## great white (Feb 16, 2015)

I'm back in NS and we're snowed in. Roads are closed so I can't go pick up my 10f, but I can drive over to the busy bee store and look at qctp.

The two they offer are:

http://www.busybeetools.com/products/tool-post-quick-change-for-12in-lathe.html

That says for a 12" lathe

http://www.busybeetools.com/products/tool-post-quick-change-set-of-17pcs.html

That one says for a 5-8" swing.

Neither of them are itemized by axa or similar. How do I know which will work? Or will neither?


----------



## great white (Feb 16, 2015)

Details are slim other than what is on the busy bee site.

All I can find is a YouTube video on the 12" set:






It seems to have "250-1xx" on all the holders. I think this makes it a bxa sized holder but I'm not sure. Pretty new to all this.


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Feb 16, 2015)

by the ads description, the first toolpost would be the one to get. it goes up to 6" swing(12 inch lathe)
the second toolpost appears to be for lathes 5-8" swing (10-16" lathe).
Have you looked at this one(ebay)?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AXA-Size-Qu...979?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f2fb73323


----------



## schor (Feb 16, 2015)

The 12" one looks is axa and will fit your lathe. Do they have a wedge type? I thought at one point they did I could not find it.


----------



## great white (Feb 16, 2015)

schor said:


> The 12" one looks is axa and will fit your lathe. Do they have a wedge type? I thought at one point they did I could not find it.


Sorry, don't understand the diff between piston and wedge....


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Feb 16, 2015)

there are 2 different type posts of this kind- A wedge type and a piston type
a wedge type as it's name implies moves a set of wedges to lock the moveable tool holder in the desired position.
by contrast, a piston type uses a square piston that protrudes from the post to secure the moveable tool holder in the desired position.
both are operated by a handle that provides the means to lock the moveable tool holder


----------



## darkzero (Feb 16, 2015)

The first link is AXA size. AXA accepts up to 1/2" shanks & is how you can tell from the listing. The second link accepts up to 3/8" shanks, I'm assuming this is what they call OXA size (not sure I've never seen one in person before).

The AXA size should be a a good fit for your lathe but still you should double check anyway. Check the distance from the top of your coumpound slide (where to tool post woukd sit) to spindle center. You will need a min of 15/16" for AXA. Get the wedge type if you can.

BTW, for the import holders, 250-1xx are the AXA, 250-2xx are BXA.


----------



## yendor (Feb 16, 2015)

I'm doing this on an Atlas 10F as well and am part way thru the process.

I have a Phase II from Enco but I'm sure you can find a CA source as well.

You want the AXA size for a 10F Lathe. The Phase II is an Aloris Clone and is well recommended (why I got it) It is a Wedge Type.
You can google the difference between QTCP Wedge and QTCP Piston and you'll get a quick understanding of them.
This link for Phase II shows both Versions:
http://www.phase2plus.com/details.asp?pr=QUICK_CHANGE_TOOL_SETS&id=52

This On-Line Seller seems to have Canada Covered for shipping:
http://www.industrydepot.com/phaseIItoolposts.htm

The Cliff Note version is:
A Piston Type pushes a Piston Out from the Side of the QTCP to PUSH against the Tool Holder an fix it in place.
Some People say this creates a BOW in the tool holder overtime and creates some deflection by the force required to fix the Tool Holder in position.

The Wedge has a Sliding Section that Jams the against Dovetail Slot effectively making the dovetail slot wider and holding using force in a different direction on the Tool Holder.

From what I've gathered in my research the actual Tool Holders are interchangeable between either model. It's the Post Itself that is different.

Look up (Google R.G. Sparber QTCP) Look in the Metal Working then Lathe areas of his web site. and you will come up with a very well written PDF file of installing a QCTP on an Atlas 12" Lathe.
There is very little difference between the 10F and the later 12" from the perspective of installing a QCTP.

I plan to make a replacement bolt for mine that will use 1/2 x 20 threads top and bottom with a center diameter of 14 mm because the straight 14 mm bolt seems to be just too tight for clearance in the "T"-Nut for the 10F Compound. This issue is clear to see in the PDF on Rick Sparber's site.
I have a post started on this. I'm waiting for some metal supplies to arrive so I can get started.


----------



## wa5cab (Feb 17, 2015)

I'll add a bit of trivia.  Although Aloris may be the originator of the wedge type, I think that the first piston types may have been made by Yuasa.  The Chinese either bought or stole the design from them and cheapened it a little.  The Phase II (probably top of the line for Chinese made) has a square piston head.  Some (all??) of the other Chinese made ones have a circular head.  The Yuasa design had a rectangular head, roughly twice the height of the Phase II.  And the center of the rectangle was relieved so that there is no chance of the tool holder block rocking on the piston.

Part numbers commonly seen on Chinese made holders, including earlier Phase II's, are 250-NNN.  This is a Yuasa part number.  I note that Phase II has incremented their part numbers to 251-.  No explanation given as to what the change was.


----------



## deschmid00 (Feb 19, 2015)

I put a bxa on my 12" craftsman, works but too big, should have sent it back and got the axa.


----------



## wa5cab (Feb 19, 2015)

Heh heh.  I think that a case could be made that everyone you put a BXA on their 12" either wish they hadn't and admit it, or wish they hadn't but won't admit it.


----------



## great white (Feb 19, 2015)

I've decided to stay with the lantern tool post for while.

I have to build a stand for the lathe and I want to give it a thourough r&r before I start buying more stuff for it.


----------



## fgduncan (Feb 26, 2015)

Many have told you to get a QCTP. And rightly so. I had made a home made tool post and holder and instantly realized the benefits.  When the money became available, I bought an AXA sized QCTP for my 10F and never looked back. That QCTP changed the lathe from a toy to a tool. It is infinitely superior to the lantern and I still can't understand why anybody would use one except under threat of death.  Or perhaps you haven't had a chance to get one yet. I have enjoyed my Atlas for nigh onto 30 years, and have no interest in any other. I'm a hobbyist and don't need anything else.


----------



## louosten (Mar 11, 2015)

I just got an AXA wedge style tool post for my 10F Atlas. The base of the square tool post is larger than the area above the compound where it sits above the T-Slot. Has it been common practice to mill off a small portion of the compound for a better fit? I may have missed this procedure in a previous post; if so, sorry for the duplication.
Lou O.


----------



## great white (Mar 11, 2015)

fgduncan said:


> Many have told you to get a QCTP. And rightly so... It is infinitely superior to the lantern and I still can't understand why anybody would use one except under threat of death.  Or perhaps you haven't had a chance to get one yet...



One word that overrides everything else: money.

As in: have none.

Later down the road, things will change. Until then, the lantern style rocker mount will have to do.

Even crap tools are better than no tools.....


----------



## fgduncan (Mar 11, 2015)

louosten said:


> I just got an AXA wedge style tool post for my 10F Atlas. The base of the square tool post is larger than the area above the compound where it sits above the T-Slot. Has it been common practice to mill off a small portion of the compound for a better fit? I may have missed this procedure in a previous post; if so, sorry for the duplication.
> Lou O.


I milled a relief area on the top of the compound level with the one that was there so that the AXA would fit. Milling or grinding along the bottom edge of the AXA would accomplish the same thing. But you will have to do two edges so you can use both of the tool holder positions.


----------



## wa5cab (Mar 11, 2015)

You might need to cut three corners.  But if the three options, I would favor milling off the hump.  Besides, bare compound slides are generally cheaper than decent quality QCTP's.  And if you do a decent job of modifying the compound, it won't affect the value should the time ever come that you (or your heirs) need to sell the set.

On the subject of milling the hump, if you have an Atlas Milling Attachment, the compound slide and swivel will mount on it in place of the vise.  Just don't make the mistake of trying to use the swivel as a rotary table.


----------



## cdhknives (Mar 11, 2015)

I took a couple of big files to work the hump back the half inch or so required.  As you get close, you have to slow down and draw file to mate up and stop so the new flat meets the existing flat well.  It is easier than it sounds if you have a feel for filing and a big fine tooth file you can hold well.  I found that I could slide the file lightly on the old flat and feel the ridge, then press down and lightly take metal off the high side only.  15-20 minutes later it looks original...I also took the opportunity to clean up the high spots from nicks and dings in the flat.

File teeth bite into edges really well, but skate over flats very well.  Use the feel of this to your advantage on this sort of operation.


----------



## louosten (Mar 13, 2015)

"milling the hump"...OK, I took your advice. This is how it worked out...

I cut a relief slit at the measured distance with my trusty Dremel (performed by memory, since I didn't have the AXA with me at home) ...




Then I mounted the top of the compound in my drill press (didn't have access to a mill)...




This is obviously not the ideal way to perform milling operations, as most already know. I went slow and took many light cuts...




This continued until I got within a few thousandths of the existing surface...



Then I finished it off with a flat file, carefully matching the adjacent surface...



I had to wait to get back to the shop to test my memory and work. The post was mounted and the AXA slooooowly lowered into position...Eureka, it worked!!!




Thanks for the help & advice!

Lou O.


----------



## Rob (Mar 13, 2015)

You will find that you will need to mill the hump back further. When threading you will want the compond at 30 degrees but the QCTP set to straight into the work.


----------



## yendor (Mar 13, 2015)

What he said - you need to be able to rotate the QCTP.


----------



## cdhknives (Mar 13, 2015)

When I ground down mine I made sure the toolpost would rotate 360 degrees.  In other words, I cut back far enough that the corner would not hit the lip of the hump.  This eliminated any future issue with alignment if you need a funny angle of compound and QCTP...nothing like being in the middle of a sequence of operations and having to stop and grind on your machine!


----------



## Round in circles (Apr 1, 2015)

Thanks guys  , I had originally intended to get the base of the QCTP  ground back a tad, but on reflection realised it would make the foot print of the QCTP smaller and that could upset the fantastic rigidity that the bigger base QCTP gives .

So , I've been contemplating.........was enough there meat for me to make a full QCTP rotation grind out ?

  I must confess until I read this thread I've not thought of using my drill press and a high speed CTC woodwork  router cutter  to dry mill  and mill off the unwanted metal.  But as it is very soft  cast iron I'll give it a whirl dry , on a slower speed and also make the removal a few thou deeper than needed . This is  to give a permanent clearance  as  I can't stand at the bench and file accurately these days due to an end of  life spinal problem over taking me.

Does any one foresee any probs milling off a few thou at a time dry or should I go for the can of WD40 method ?


----------



## wa5cab (Apr 1, 2015)

I would go for the can of WD40 method.  Also, do you have an X-Y table and vise on your drill press?  If not, are you able to position the drill press over and under the lathe so that you can use the lathe's cross feed to move the work relative to the cutter?


----------

