# way & lube oils



## outsider347

I have a 12 " atlas lathe & been keeping everything quite clean since I bought it. No idea how many PO had this machine

Question is about what way oil & general purpose lube oils do you gents use on your manual lathe
tks


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## Richard King

I recommend Mobil Vactra 2 way oil or some call it medium heavy 68 way oil.   MSC sells it in gallon sizes. I can't help you with the manual.  Good luck.


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## outsider347

Thanks Richard

What oil do you use in the oil cups & spildle brgs?

I found the manuals & parts list on line & several other places. 
I also bought the atlas operator manual from Clausing
It's been a fun adventure doing the lathe restoration & finally making some tools


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## pdentrem

Can also used non detergent 20w oil for most lube points if you have problems getting the spindle oil. Remember it is an open system, lube everytime you use the lathe. Vactra #2 way oil is what to use for the ways as Richard already stated.


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## wa5cab

The early manuals said SAE 10 except on the open gears.  Later ones, including later editions on the early model machines, say SAE 20.  I use SAE 20 (which isn't easy to find locally anymore) except in the way felts where I use Vactra 20.  The one class of oils that you do NOT want to use are detergent type automotive oils.  They are formulated to capture moisture (water) and as a lathe doesn't stir and heat the oil/water mix, the water will remain in place and cause corrosion.

Robert D.


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## bluedxj

can these oils be found localy like maybe an auto parts store or do you guys order online?


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## pdentrem

SAE 10 or 20 oil can be found at Napa and the like. We used to stock it at the GM dealership I worked at. Likely they will have to order a case. Some vintage car owners still use non detergent oils. Machine shops use all sorts of lubes, spindle oils naturally. Check local industrial supply stores. Call the maker for local dealer, it is 1-800 bite me number. The tech departments are very good once you get there.
Pierre


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## Ray C

www.tractorsupply.com carries non-detergent oils and ISO 68 and 100 hydraulic fluid which are the blood of many lathe and mill gearboxes.  This is what is recommended in the PM (aka Precision Matthews, Quality Machine Tool) PM mills and the basic bench lathes -and most others like it.  Of course, check your owner manual.  There are many TS outlets but not all will ship the oils.

I found the hard way (with no damage to equipment) that differential oil (80W = ISO 100) will foam like crazy in the PM 45 mill.  Matt said some of his customers were using it.  I tried it once for a week and switched back to hydraulic oil.  There was so much foam, you couldn't see inside the sight glass.  Doesn't happen with hydraulic oil.

Ray





bluedxj said:


> can these oils be found localy like maybe an auto parts store or do you guys order online?


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## outsider347

What do you use on the open gears?
tks


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## Ray C

Well, OK... this is my personal habit and other folks have rightly so, their habits -and I'm not saying one is better than the other.

I use general purpose grease (forgot the certification type) and I check it almost daily.  I wipe down the old stuff and apply fresh.  Note: A very knowledgeable person here correctly points-out that grease is a magnet for swarf -and I completely agree.  This is why I'm pretty darn good about wiping the old off and applying fresh -and my gearbox is very well covered.  And also, there are times when I know I won't be using the leadscrews at all so, I disengage the middle gear so things aren't getting worn-out at all.

That's my personal method and there are other ones as good as or better than mine.

Ray

PS:  Sorry for the long-winded response but; oil, lubrication -seems to really strike a chord in folks.


EDIT:  And the reason I use grease is because they are bone dry after 2 hours of spinning when heavy oil is used.  It just doesn't stick well enough for my personal feelings about this.



outsider347 said:


> What do you use on the open gears?
> tks


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## pdentrem

I mentioned in another posting, that I have used Mobil Climbing Gear Lube that my Dad used in the railroad business. It is super sticky. I had tried oils on the gears but like Ray, they get dry fast.
Pierre


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## Ray C

I must have missed that post and I'll check into that...  THanks




pdentrem said:


> I mentioned in another posting, that I have used Mobil Climbing Gear Lube that my Dad used in the railroad business. It is super sticky. I had tried oils on the gears but like Ray, they get dry fast.
> Pierre


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## wa5cab

Two years ago when I got sorta serious about starting to use my equipment again I checked all of the local and chain auto parts and hardware stores (including two NAPA) within about an 8 miles radius of home (roughly 20 places).  None carry SAE 20 non-detergent anymore except Ace and all that they have are the little 3-IN-ONE cans which if you use very much per month would be frightfully expensive.  So I ordered some from Enco.  However, later it suddenly dawned on me that Bass Tool and Supply has all sorts of specialty non-automotive lubricants.  So check for a machine tool supply house in your area.

Unless you have a wet sump or an oil circulating pump and reservoir, using any weight oil on open gears isn't going to work for more than an hour or two.  I'm going to look into Pierre's Mobil suggestion.

And incidentally, one problem the late Atlas machines don't have is swarf getting into the headstock.

Robert D.


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## GK1918

Thats odd hard to find non detergent?  Isnt that suppose to be used in lawnmowers and such. My idea
is seasonal.  I havent any problems with detergent oils. In warm weather its 20-50 off the shelf for
everything.  For gearing I use 90# gear oil - shaper scotch yoke and bull gears 90#.
Now because I dont leave the heat on I now use 10 weight and the 20-50 for gearing. just the opposite.
And then this practice may not be good for new machines.  Then my big lathe gotta be 100 yrs old
is happy with 50 weight oil for headstock bearings so I guess it just depends.  Then lately I have been
mixing some of those pctc's whatever its called that makes it even more slipprey and suppose to fill
pits and voids like engine restore.  This is just my thinking, if this practice does more harm than good,
wouldnt you think my machine would have taken a dump years ago.  Sometimes I just look at my
big old Greaves and wonder what it did in 1918 lot of junk oils back then, evidently it was taken care
of by a white haired gold glasses guy smokin a pipe with an apron on.  Heres the shocker years ago
a construction  freind pouring drain oil in the hydraulic tank of a dozer??? The dozer out lived him
his sons still got it today!   YIKES  now thats the holy grail of sins...


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## Vince_O

Please DONT used nondetergant oil in your small eng. I dont think theres an eng out there built after 1960 that calls for non detergant oil in it. 

I may not know anything about a lathe, but small engs I know.


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## outsider347

pdentrem:

A google search of Mobil Climbing Lube sent me to Summitt Racing Supply. 
Is this the same lube that you suggested?
tks

BTW, I think we are sort of close neighbors. I live just south of Buffalo NY in Orchard Park


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## Dranreb

As a compromise between oil and grease on the change gears, I find chainsaw bar oil, which is made for clinging to metal turning tight high speed corners works well.

Any old lube needs to be washed off first for best results though.

Bernard

edit, wrote oil too many times


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## wa5cab

GK1918,

I didn't mean that non-detergent oil can't be found.  I was referring to SAE 20.  Of the places I went to during my local search last year, all had at least one brand of SAE 30, a few had SAE 10 and a couple even had SAE 5.  But no SAE 20 at any of them.

Robert D.


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## pdentrem

outsider347 said:


> pdentrem:
> 
> A google search of Mobil Climbing Lube sent me to Summitt Racing Supply.
> Is this the same lube that you suggested?
> tks
> 
> BTW, I think we are sort of close neighbors. I live just south of Buffalo NY in Orchard Park



Well cover me in lube. I was calling it the wrong name. It is Mobil Mobiltac E - Open Gear Compound.
Here are photos showing the product. My Dad retired 17 yrs ago, so this can is at least that old. 


Not far from you on a SNOWLESS day!


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## BluCab

outsider347 said:


> What do you use on the open gears?
> tks



For the open gears on my old Craftsman, I use "Cling Surface Open Gear and Wire Rope Oil". It is a bit messy to use if you are not careful, but it is a Moly-Penetrating oil and it creeps into the nooks and crannies and stays there. After cleaning the gears well, I spray it daily for the first 3 or 4 days, then once a week or so after. It makes the gears run smooth and quiet. To keep the mess down, use the red tube that comes with it, and get a paint can sprayer handle. Pull the trigger slow. A full blast will splash. Splash wipes up easily till it dries, then you can use a little penetrating oil or degreaser to wipe it off. Wrap a blue shop-towel around the can and secure it with a wire-tie to catch any drips. 

I order it from McMaster-Carr:


> Each​ SizePkg.
> Qty.Partial
> Pkg.Full
> Pkg.12-oz. Aerosol121073K74$10.34$9.34




I think that NAPA also sells the same thing under a different name, but I have not used it. You can google "Open Gear and Wire Rope Oil" for other sources.


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## gi_984

I had the same questions when I bought my 12 inch Caftsman Atlas lathe almost 4 years ago.  Did a lot of research and actually called Mobil and Lubriplate to talk to their tech folks who specialize in lubricants for machine tools.  
Went with the following recommendations from Lubriplate:
No. 3000 grease (product # L0108-001) 14 oz can.  For the open gears on the headstock, apply with a small brush.

No 2 spindle oil (product # L0003-007) Gallon size.  For all the oil cups and oiling points, I use a 10cc syringe with a IV catheter and drip it right in where it needs to go.

SPO-222 oil (product # L0242-007 I think) label is smudged and I'm too lazy to look it up online.  It is the gallon size.  I use this on the ways.  I also use this on the ways of my milling machine.  

I went with Lubriplate because there are multiple local dealers that had the stuff in stock or could get it within the day without having to pay shipping.  Inexpensive and excellent quality industrial lubricants. 
Mobil had similar products but much pricier and less available.
Trivia time:  Lubriplate grease (product #130a) was selected by the military in WW 2 for use in the M-1 Garand.  They still make it today!


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## GaryK

I've heard that oils made for chainsaws are good for the open gears. Sticks without getting flung all over the place.


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## gi_984

Just to clarify, Lubriplate No 2 is a 20 weight spindle oil.  The Lubriplate 3000 grease was designed for the mining industry for open gearing and not to pick up debris.


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## shoeboxpaul

Hello Outsider,

I hope I can be of some help.

The concern about detergent vs. non-detergent seems valid on the surface. I believe everyone is concerned about the detergent oil absorbing moisture. It is designed to do that in an automotive engine which  has combustion and high heat. The moisture comes from condensation as the engine cools (yes, some comes from the combustion process and most of that goes out the exhaust port). A lathe never reaches the temperature of an auto engine and condensation is not a concern. Condensation happens when there is a temperature differential. There is no reason to worry about using a detergent oil to lubricate your lathe, unless it operates in a in an extremely moist environment. Keep in mind, quality oils are formulated with rust inhibitors. I have been using motor oil on equipment for years (usually on hand in the garage). Anything I have that gets rusted is the fault of my neglect. I like using oil because every time you add, it kind of washes the parts, cleaning them as it leaks out or is flung off. The loss of the oil is another reason absorption is a non-issue.  

A 20 weight oil is adequate. Gear oils contain an EP additive (extreme pressure) that is unnecessary for straight cut gears. There are car and truck manual transmissions that specify motor oil. Motor oils use the SAE viscosity rating while most industrial oils use the ISO rating. A quality compressor oil is great for lathe lubrication. An ISO range from 46 to 68 falls in the 20 weight SAE scale (lower is nearer 15 and higher is near 30 weight). Quality compressor oils have no ep additives and they do have rust and oxidation inhibitors. An air compressor builds a lot more heat than the lathes most of us use will ever reach. Non-detergent motor oil is going to be a thing of the past and compressor oils keep getting better. 

One FYI about viscosity. Ask 10 people what the W stands for on a can of oil - say 20W-50 - and over nine of them will tell you it means "weight". That is incorrect. It stands for "Winter". The 20W-50 is a multi-viscosity oil. It is a 50 weight oil that reacts as a 20 weight oil in low temperatures, This quality enables an engine to turn over easier in cold conditions. The tests for the low temp and the high temp are different.

I hope this helps. 

Paul








































s


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## wa5cab

You mean like the Gulf Coast? 



shoeboxpaul said:


> unless it operates in a in an extremely moist environment.


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## shoeboxpaul

wa5cab said:


> You mean like the Gulf Coast?



If the humidity in your shop is so high that it is condensing on your machinery, I would say yes. Detergent absorbs some moisture, non-detergent separates from it. Both conditions lead to rust if not addressed. Some of us have to clean and re-oil more often than others.


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