# El Hefe Lives



## Chris Bettis (Mar 11, 2016)

Well I've been pretty quiet about things here on the forums lately. I had a few problems with my initial 12z mill, I will not get into any details. But I no longer own that machine.  
Also as some of you know, Bill,(wrmiller) has recently upgraded to a knee mill and sold his 12z. After the problems with the first mill I was somewhat reluctant at first. But after much thought I decided that it was no longer a charter oak machine after all of the modifications and re working Bill has done on the machine.  So I am proud to announce I am the new owner, unfortunately the Bill said I have  to come up with a new name for it. (undecided). But I've been extremely happy with the machine so far. And am proud to call it mine. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




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## Chris Bettis (Mar 11, 2016)

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## zmotorsports (Mar 11, 2016)

Nice.  Congrats.  I'm sure Bill made it much better than original which will aid in the fun factor of using it.

Mike.


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## wrmiller (Mar 11, 2016)

Long live 'The Boss'!  

You can proudly claim that you own a pretty much one-of-a-kind mill. (he's already experienced how powerful this thing is after smoking a couple of end mills...)

You can call it El Hefe, I don't mind. Just don't call it the "Miller Machine Works".


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## Chris Bettis (Mar 11, 2016)

The first project was a combination lathe and mill. A chuck key for a new bison 3 jaw, also courtesy of Bill. 
	

		
			
		

		
	






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## Chris Bettis (Mar 11, 2016)

zmotorsports said:


> Nice.  Congrats.  I'm sure Bill made it much better than original which will aid in the fun factor of using it.
> 
> Mike.


Yes this thing is awesome, as Bill mentioned I already smoked an endmill cutting the chuck key 7/16 4 flute hss in 4140 it was going so smooth I decided  to take a heavier cut, then things started glowing a dull orange..  oops. All the while the mill never knew it was cutting anything. 

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## dave2176 (Mar 11, 2016)

Sounds like you need something for cooling. Mister anyone??


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## Chris Bettis (Mar 11, 2016)

dave2176 said:


> Sounds like you need something for cooling. Mister anyone??


Yeah a fog buster is in order. 

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## brav65 (Mar 11, 2016)

I encouraged Bill to add some glowing eyes to El Hefe! Congratulations on you new beast.


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## Chris Bettis (Mar 11, 2016)

brav65 said:


> I encouraged Bill to add some glowing eyes to El Hefe! Congratulations on you new beast.


The new control panel I'm building will be illuminated? That count?

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## brav65 (Mar 11, 2016)

Chris Bettis said:


> The new control panel I'm building will be illuminated? That count?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk


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## Chris Bettis (Mar 13, 2016)

Started a new quill stop today. Its made from a chunk of 3x.625 1018. The original quill stop only had 1 bolt holding it in place, 
	

		
			
		

		
	





	

		
			
		

		
	
 I forgot that I do not have a drill chuck yet so I cannot finish it until I get one. 

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## wrmiller (Mar 13, 2016)

Dude, you should have said something when you stopped by. I would have loaned you one.


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## Chris Bettis (Mar 14, 2016)

I didn't think about it until i needed to drill. 

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## Chris Bettis (Mar 14, 2016)

Ordered all of my vfd control panel parts today. Should all be here by wednesday. Im thinking the bland white box is gonna need a good carbon fiber wrap 

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## wrmiller (Mar 14, 2016)

Are you installing a illuminated switch or other indicator that shows power is on? I just put in a order for a LED lit e-stop button, as I keep forgetting to turn off the power to the mill (I changed the VFD fans to temperature controlled in the settings so now I don't even hear those). I'll have to switch from negative to positive and run a return ground for the LED but I think that's it.


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## Chris Bettis (Mar 14, 2016)

Im installing a standalone led,  hooked up to a keyed switch. From there it will go out to the e stop switch, and then on to the fwd rev switch. Im installing the key because the mill is at my dads. I dont want just anyone trying to use it while I'm not there. 

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## Chris Bettis (Mar 16, 2016)

So here is what I've come up with for the control panel.  
	

		
			
		

		
	




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## FOMOGO (Mar 16, 2016)

Looks like you have everything you need, except for an outlet for the coffee pot.  Mike


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## Chris Bettis (Mar 16, 2016)

FOMOGO said:


> Looks like you have everything you need, except for an outlet for the coffee pot.  Mike


I actually have a mini fridge for the rum n coke under the mill.  

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## wrmiller (Mar 17, 2016)

Is the switch just right of the e-stop your fwd/off/rev switch?


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## Chris Bettis (Mar 17, 2016)

Yep thats fwd n rev. All of the legend plates on automation direct were backwards like the original switch. So i opted for a blank that I could fill in myself. 

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## wrmiller (Mar 17, 2016)

Yea, I hear you. I had to flip the legend plate on my switch after I re-wired it so I could just write a 'F' and 'R' on there with a marker.


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## Chris Bettis (Mar 31, 2016)

For those following along. Completely un related to the mill i did another thing today.
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 bought an ammco 9,000lb 2 post lift.. Now i really need a bigger shop

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## FOMOGO (Mar 31, 2016)

You won't regret getting the lift. One of the best purchases I ever made. Mike


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## Chris Bettis (Mar 31, 2016)

Thanks! The picture was taken at work they upgraded me to a 15k. So I bought the old lift from the company who does the installs for $500 Its now broken down on a trailer. Need to build a shop big enough to put it in.. Wasn't going to let that deal go to waste. 

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## zmotorsports (Mar 31, 2016)

Chris Bettis said:


> For those following along. Completely un related to the mill i did another thing today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice.  I have an Ammco 10k pound two-post lift in my shop and I love it.  I too need a bigger shop though.

Mike.


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## Chris Bettis (Apr 4, 2016)

Vfd controller mounted, wired, and programmed. The programming was a headache but after a couple hours of reading, head scratching, and cursing before the light bulb moment i got it all working. Only thing I'm curious about is my led lights are very dim. 24v + going to terminal 1 ground to terminal 2. Not sure if I reversed polarity that would make them brighter, or not work at all? The lights are led 22mm units from automation direct. 



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## JimDawson (Apr 4, 2016)

Chris Bettis said:


> Only thing I'm curious about is my led lights are very dim. 24v + going to terminal 1 ground to terminal 2. Not sure if I reversed polarity that would make them brighter, or not work at all? The lights are led 22mm units from automation direct.



I think you wired them correctly.  They are normally pretty bright.  Two posibilities that I can see, maybe you ordered the 120V LEDs by mistake, or your 24V supply is not big enough to power the LEDs.  What are you using for a 24V supply?


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## Chris Bettis (Apr 4, 2016)

JimDawson said:


> I think you wired them correctly.  They are normally pretty bright.  Two posibilities that I can see, maybe you ordered the 120V LEDs by mistake, or your 24V supply is not big enough to power the LEDs.  What are you using for a 24V supply?


Pretty sure i ordered 24v leds. But ill check the invoice. The power source is the 500ma 24volt positive logic supply from vfd which is a danfoss fc51

Edit: there are only 2 led's . pwr on indicator, and estop. I can turn one off and the other does not get brighter if that helps 

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## wrmiller (Apr 4, 2016)

Got a meter handy? measure the voltage at terminal one. You may have a voltage drop in a bad wire or connection.

EDIT: By "turning one off" did you actually re-wire the circuit such that only one LED is being powered? Just thinking out loud...


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## JimDawson (Apr 4, 2016)

500ma should be enough, the 24V LEDs only draw 26ma.


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## wrmiller (Apr 5, 2016)

JimDawson said:


> 500ma should be enough, the 24V LEDs only draw 26ma.



Oh, I know the PS has enough juice, just thinking a loose connection or some other type of high resistance/voltage drop is all.


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## Chris Bettis (Apr 5, 2016)

wrmiller said:


> Oh, I know the PS has enough juice, just thinking a loose connection or some other type of high resistance/voltage drop is all.


Yeah I'm not sure. Ill open it up and check it with a meter Saturday. 
By switching off I mean one led comes on with power one from estop. No change when the stop is pressed cutting ground to the led. 

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## wrmiller (Apr 5, 2016)

Not getting a real good picture in my head. Maybe you could jot down your schematic on a piece of paper and email it to me?


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## Chris Bettis (Apr 5, 2016)

wrmiller said:


> Not getting a real good picture in my head. Maybe you could jot down your schematic on a piece of paper and email it to me?


Green led (pwr indicator) comes on when control panel is live via key switch.  Red e-stop light is controlled by a contact block on the estop switch. When switch is depressed the light turns off. Same pwr source for both led. Same ground for both led's . separate switching via contact blocks on key on, and estop.
Separate note.  still need to get a braking resistor to get the motor stop time to 1 second rather than 3. 

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## wrmiller (Apr 5, 2016)

Sounds ok. I have my e-stop LED on regardless of switch position. Still think you may have a voltage drop somewhere.  

Given the low mass of a mill spindle vs. that on a lathe, you probably don't need a braking resistor on your mill. Try it and see. Worst thing that can happen is the VFD throws a fault code.


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## Chris Bettis (Apr 9, 2016)

Got a few projects coming up on the lathe soon that required a tooling upgrade. So out with the 5/16 indexable cutters in with 1/2" cutters. Only problem is that my old 3/8ths boring bar holder didn't fit my new 1/2" boring bar, and the 1/2" turning tool holders weren't deep enough to hold the flats safely. So i modified the boring bar holder to accept the new 1/2" bar.
 The old bar 
	

		
			
		

		
	



New bar in 100 series holder. Not a great fit.. 


After milling out the old bar holder to accept the new bar. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




Love this machine!

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## Chris Bettis (Apr 9, 2016)

Also, about the led problem. Im only getting 21 volts at the vfd.

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## wrmiller (Apr 9, 2016)

Nice mod on the holder. I know you know this, but that holder isn't going to be real rigid. No hogging cuts!  

21 volts is a bit low. Is that with everything disconnected, i.e., no-load?


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## Chris Bettis (Apr 9, 2016)

wrmiller said:


> Nice mod on the holder. I know you know this, but that holder isn't going to be real rigid. No hogging cuts!
> 
> 21 volts is a bit low. Is that with everything disconnected, i.e., no-load?


Yeah i know it wont be real rigid but the entire lathe isn't very rigid and i will only need to remove .020 max off the stock. 
And 21 volts is directly off the pins on the vfd with no load from the panel. Same reading at the switch in the panel  on line and load side, as well as the line side of both led lights. 

Edit: I think I found the culprit. Im losing about 10% from the dc transformer, and I have a 10% imbalance in the 220, which is traced back to the line side of the meter so xcel energy needs a new transformer to feed the house. That's my theory anyway.  
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## mksj (Apr 9, 2016)

Most 24VDC LED indicator bulbs will work just fine on anything between 12-24+ volts AC or DC and draw about 11mA, that you have 21 VDC out of the VFD is puzzling, but the line voltage coming into the VFD would not affect this supply. The VFD is rated for 200-240VAC input. I would pull the light bulbs and see if you have LED bulbs and the voltage. Like Jim mentioned, it could be a 120V LED or incandescent bulb, sometimes returned switches to AD might get mixed up and sent out wrong. Also double check the 24VDC voltage supply from the VFD is 500mA, usually they are much less, although Danfoss says 200mA on some models. I would check the current draw if you have a mA DVM, or if  there is a sag in voltage when the LED lights are on, they are normally quite bright.


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## Chris Bettis (Apr 9, 2016)

I got the new quill stop mounted and re aligned the dro scale for the quill today. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




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## Chris Bettis (Apr 9, 2016)

mksj said:


> Most 24VDC LED indicator bulbs will work just fine on anything between 12-24+ volts AC or DC and draw about 11mA, that you have 21 VDC out of the VFD is puzzling, but the line voltage coming into the VFD would not affect this supply. The VFD is rated for 200-240VAC input. I would pull the light bulbs and see if you have LED bulbs and the voltage. Like Jim mentioned, it could be a 120V LED or incandescent bulb, sometimes returned switches to AD might get mixed up and sent out wrong. Also double check the 24VDC voltage supply from the VFD is 500mA, usually they are much less, although Danfoss says 200mA on some models. I would check the current draw if you have a mA DVM, or if  there is a sag in voltage when the LED lights are on, they are normally quite bright.


I double checked the invoice that I ordered 24v led stuff. Its just weird that both led lights are dim. I could understand if one was 120v and one was 24v ( one bright one dim) However I have not pulled them to verify. I did check with my snap on dmm and there is no measurable change in voltage with the led lights on vs off. And no voltage drop through any of the switches. 

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## wrmiller (Apr 9, 2016)

Just to cover all the bases, I'd check the LEDs just to make sure. Because this is getting down right weird.

Nice finish on the quill stop. Still sorry I didn't get that finished before you took the mill.


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## Chris Bettis (Apr 9, 2016)

wrmiller said:


> Just to cover all the bases, I'd check the LEDs just to make sure. Because this is getting down right weird.
> 
> Nice finish on the quill stop. Still sorry I didn't get that finished before you took the mill.


I think i may just order 2 new 24v led lights from automation direct. 
No worries about the quill stop. It was a good little project I enjoyed making. 

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