# Who makes a good surface grinder small enough for a basememnt home shop?



## ome

Looking for a surface grinder to add to the tool room
Thanks jon


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## Ray C

As far as new production, no one seems to make a small one.  I've been encouraging Matt at Precision Matthews to address that for a while now and he's aware and has his eyes open.

BTW: the smallest ones that I've seen are 6x12.  They're usually very heavy (800 to 1500 lbs) as the mass is needed to control any vibration.

Ray





ome said:


> Looking for a surface grinder to add to the tool room
> Thanks jon


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## itsme_Bernie

I know someone with a very small surface grinder- 200lbs or so.  I believe it is Sanford.  

If I am correct, he is selling it.  He is in NJ.  But I will look today at the information on it for you to look locally.


Bernie


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## itsme_Bernie

Yes.  Sanford SG48.  Very small, very tabletop.  Thing is, they go for $$$


Bernie


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## atwatterkent

Enco sells a 6" x 12"  bench top surface grinder. I have one but even it weighs about 450 lbs. It can be bought with or without a base cabinet. 
A cast iron eye is mounted on top. 
I've had to move mine twice and using a cherry picker made it easy.


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## atwatterkent

The Enco grinder is kind of pricey though at $3000.


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## ome

atwatterkent said:


> Enco sells a 6" x 12"  bench top surface grinder. I have one but even it weighs about 450 lbs. It can be bought with or without a base cabinet.
> A cast iron eye is mounted on top.
> I've had to move mine twice and using a cherry picker made it easy.


 Thanks , can it be broken down to bring it with two people down basement steps, 28 inch doorway. ?
thanks,  jon

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atwatterkent said:


> The Enco grinder is kind of pricey though at $3000.


I was hoping to find a older machine , but not sure of the brands to look for:   Brown and Sharpe surface grinders seem to pop up on ebay every few weeks or so.

Thanks,
Jon


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## Cheeseking

Once you get a grinder also consider finding a dust collector.


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## stevecmo

I just noticed this small one for sale in a daily email I get from this outfit - no connection.

http://www.mckeanmachinery.com/inventory/product-detail.php?item=CB3356

Steve


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## fretsman

Boyer Schultz are also a "2 - piece" grinder, so that may help your search as well.

Dave


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## 4GSR

Another one to check out if you can find one is the old Rockwell-Delta 6 x 12 surface grinder.  They weigh in at about 800 lbs.  They can easily be tore down in small enough pieces to handle by hand or with help of a two wheeler.  The base that sits on top of the legs weighs in at about 150 lbs., being the heaviest piece to handle.  They are not the greatest surface grinder around but they can be tuned up to do a nice grinding job when needed.

Ken


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## Daver

Nevermind, I'm an idiot.


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## atwatterkent

The Enco is 33" deep with the wheels attached. It should easily fit through the 28" doorway with the wheels removed.


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## Ray C

OK, I've been gently poking Matt in the ribs for not carrying surface grinders in-stock.

He does offer several and one is a 6x12 that he says is pretty decent.  He and Nicole are going to get more information and I'll post it when it arrives.


Ray


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## Ray C

OK, Matt (Precision Matthews) sells the the equivalent unit to what Enco has (shown here http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=619-2879&PMPXNO=16720603&PARTPG=INLMK3) but the cost is 1899.00 and a base is available for 199.   MUCH better price!  Weight is around 580lbs which is very manageable...   Be apprised, he's working on a model that will be made in Taiwan.  -No details on that unit at this time and no timeframe yet on availability.

Ray


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## Rbeckett

I imagine if Matt goes directly to the manufacturer he will be able to spec out what he really wants and can adjust it to make them more affordable.  Matt is pretty good at filling a niche in his market, just hope he can make enough to stay open a good long time.  He will easily be the go to place in no time at all if he keeps going and keeps his service high like it is now.

Bob


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## Ray C

The folks who use/need surface grinders are usually doing high-end work.  For those folks, he also carries 3-4 industrial units made by Sharp -but they're not cheap.

I lucked-out when my SG came to me and it was the first piece of "lucky" equipment I scored.  If for some reason my SG tipped over and got bent/distorted (a ficticious event) I'd go with this smaller one he currently offers as A) I get a lot of mileage out of it and they open the doors to many new things and B) it's easy to fix the mechanical things on a used SG but, if the ways or bed are in bad shape, the repairs will cost serious money and I'm not skilled enough to scrape and do it myself.  My hands/fingers are way too messed-up and even a good session with hand filing will cost me a couple days on Advil.  I can't imagine the agony after scraping all day.

Anyhow, Matt really does his best to offer good stuff that meets the needs we have.  I have no doubt about Matt's determination or ability to remain in business.  He's no rookie and has been at this a long time.

Ray





Rbeckett said:


> I imagine if Matt goes directly to the manufacturer he will be able to spec out what he really wants and can adjust it to make them more affordable.  Matt is pretty good at filling a niche in his market, just hope he can make enough to stay open a good long time.  He will easily be the go to place in no time at all if he keeps going and keeps his service high like it is now.
> 
> Bob


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## Ray C

One other thought worth mentioning...  On a lathe or mill, if the ways are a little worn you can usually still do OK work.  On a surface grinder, the whole goal is to make things perfect within 0.0001 or so.  That won't happen on a surface grinder with a bad bed, worn ways or if the mag chuck is a parallelogram instead of a cube or if it's all dinged-up.

I wish there were more SG people on this list as I often struggle with it despite a lot of use and practice.  -Getting there but not to my satisfaction.

Just a thought...

Ray


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## itsme_Bernie

I hope to be one soon Ray!  I have an opportunity for a 6x12 Sanford in pretty sweet shape- from the same guy I got my lathe from.

He hasn't been well, and I haven't been able to go back yet.  I'm itching to get it!


Bernie


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## ome

Daver said:


> Nevermind, I'm an idiot.


 someone said to me "harig and Boyer something' for well made machines
thanks,

Jon


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## 4GSR

ome said:


> someone said to me "harig and Boyer something' for well made machines
> thanks,
> 
> Jon



Harig makes a sweet surface grinder.  Probably one the best out there!  I don't know if it is the same people you mentioned, but could be.

The Harig grinder mode in both 5 x 10 and 6 x 12 models are light weight enough to be broken down for easy handling.

There are several websites out there that comment on the Harig surface grinders. 

Ken


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## Cheeseking

Mitsui (MHT) or Okamoto are tops in my world but for home shops Harigs or Boyars are just lovely indeed. Even most of the 6-18s break into managable bits.


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## Cheeseking

Well as luck have it I scored a Harig "super"612 this morning off craigslist 5 miles from my house.   NOt sure what super part means but suppose I'll find out.  Its pretty clean as grinders go and small enough as the OP mentioned to get down into the basement.  Now if i can just do this w/o momma finding out
Came with a box of 6-7 new wheels, couple mag v blocks, grinding vice (looks home made) 
Interestingly it has a built in dust collector as the base caninet which is kinda nice.   It has its own 240/3p motor that is wired and comes on with the main motor.   Wierd part is the wheel guard doesnt have provisions for a dust port or a connection  hose.  Guess i need to work all that out once its home.
Paid $800


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## Ray C

NICE! (you suck).  [I wish we had a little green envy icon].


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## Cheeseking

Thanks.   Its good to suck for once. 

 I was inches from pulling the trigger on an Okamoto 612 yesterday at a machine tool auction for work.   Had the cash but chickened out and let someone out bid me in the end.  Something about paying 15% on top ofyour bid plus sales tax rubsme wrong as well.  They were soooo nice tho about 12 in all w/dro's too but people were paying around 4k.   Could have got one for 3 but Im not in the mood for a divorce.   800 qualifys and can be justified as a hefty bday gift to myself.  

Also need to find a spanner for the wheel nut and a manual.  Both are missing.


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## easymike29

Ray C said:


> ....I wish there were more SG people on this list as I often struggle with it despite a lot of use and practice.  -Getting there but not to my satisfaction....Ray



Do you have a specific question? Post it.

Gene

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Cheeseking said:


> Also need to find a spanner for the wheel nut and a manual.  Both are missing.




http://wmsopko.com/sopko_81.htm

I recommend the Hex style.

Gene


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## Cheeseking

Thanks Gene!   Lools like they have just what I need.


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## easymike29

Cheeseking said:


> Thanks Gene!   Lools like they have just what I need.



See my edit above

Gene


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## tmarks11

Ray C said:


> Be apprised, he's working on a model that will be made in Taiwan.  -No details on that unit at this time and no timeframe yet on availability.


That is awesome!  I have been wanting to get a decent small surface grinder for awhile, but this doesn't seem to be the machine to buy from China.

Looking forward to seeing what he has to offer.



Cheeseking said:


> Well as luck have it I scored a Harig "super"612 this morning off craigslist 5 miles from my house.


Well a big "you suck" to you to.   That thing looks to be in great shape, and seems to have the original paint job. You practically stole that thing for $800.

I have been dogging my craigslist for a while, and have only seen two surface grinders in the past two years.  And both of them were in the $6k-$11k range, and had a lot of rust and mung caked on them.


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## itsme_Bernie

I have a small Sandord tabletop surface grinder for sale if anyone's interested?   ... I'm in 'NJ


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## Cheeseking

Wow been awhile I forgot about this thread.  Sounds like you should maybe subscribe to a few  industrial auction house email lists? Depending where you live focus on the local ones.  Not all but many of the auction listings I see have a grinder or two.  True auctions are a pita for the usual reasons but depending on how bad you need one it could take awhile waiting to get lucky on CL.


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## tmarks11

haha. Whoops, brought an ancient thread back to life.


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## Cheeseking

Out of curiosity i checked the Chicago area CL today and found several harig and boyar shultz for under 1k.  
Some were quite beat but others half decent as used grinders go.


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## easymike29

Ray C said:


> ....I wish there were more SG people on this list as I often struggle with it despite a lot of use and practice.  -Getting there but not to my satisfaction.Ray



Do you have a specific question?

Gene


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## Cheeseking

What are you dealing with as far as logistics of getting it in your basement??  Are we talking going thru a window well, mammas kitchen then a creaky narrow set of wooden stairs?   Many 6x12 or 6x18's can be broke down nicely into manageable pc's.   The main machine usually is just sitting on top of the base cabinet so that can go down like a glorified filing cabinet.  Mag chuck, table, cross saddle and wheel guards, all come off easy and hand carried by one or two people.   The hard part will be the base and column.   My Harig appears to have some big cap screws holding the column to the cast base but not sure if it was designed to ever come apart.  Looks like it was bondo and painted after assembly.   Not sure how other makes are assembled.  I would try to avoid separating that joint unless absolutely necessary.  Bottom line is your looking at roughly 300- 400 lbs chunk left to deal with.   I suppose you could also remove the spindle/motor assembly to lose another 75 lbs or so.


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## arvidj

I have seen several K.O. Lee surface grinders available. How would they be rated for initial quality?


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## laiterman

Deleted member 473 said:


> Another one to check out if you can find one is the old Rockwell-Delta 6 x 12 surface grinder.  They weigh in at about 800 lbs.  They can easily be tore down in small enough pieces to handle by hand or with help of a two wheeler.  The base that sits on top of the legs weighs in at about 150 lbs., being the heaviest piece to handle.  They are not the greatest surface grinder around but they can be tuned up to do a nice grinding job when needed.
> 
> Ken



A few years ago I found a "Rockwell/Delta Toolmaker Grinder" on Craigslist, which I bought for $800. Since then it's been collecting dust. What do hobbyists use these for? Any interest out there if I want to sell it?


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## kb58

laiterman said:


> ...I found a "Rockwell/Delta Toolmaker Grinder" on Craigslist, which I bought for $800... What do hobbyists use these for?


Well, presumably you bought it for a reason!


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## laiterman

Haven't you ever bought a tool because you thought it was a great buy and you figured it would come in handy at some point?


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## KBeitz

Grizzly sells a small Southbend *surface grinder ... 631 lbs...






						South Bend Lathe Co.
					






					www.southbendlathe.com
				



*


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## Hobby_5

Scaring up an old thread here but looking for another option just a cut above the Southbend/Grizzly option please...


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## Cheeseking

I got a Harig super 612 in my basement shop without too much trouble. The grinder itself just sits on the cabinet base so that can go separately. The table casting and chuck also just lift off and go separate. Spilled a bit of oil not realizing theres a reservoir and circulation pump in the base that feeds all the ways and x/z screws.
They go fairly cheap at auctions but usually there in need of some major cleaning.


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