# 9A project completed



## derf

Some of you guys may remember this little crudball I acquired back in April...





I had just completed the last project, the Seneca Falls #30 resto-mod,(project of the month) when this lathe found it's way to me via a friend of a friend. My friend, who is also a tool salesman, showed me a pic of this on his phone, which came from his friend, the seller, who now is a retired  tool room supervisor. He had this in his back building just taking up space and wanted the room for some of his restoration projects.
 I told him I would take it, and explained to him what my mission was.  With the lack of training facilities and instructors to teach skilled trades these days, my mission is to educate a passionate individual some skills that seems to be disappearing more every day, if I have to do it one student at a time!
 I already had a student lined up to not only learn, but to eventually purchase this lathe once we got it up to date. He thought this was a noble plan, and let me have this machine for a very obscene low price.
 He also done the research and got the pick card from South Bend. This model was made in 1945. It left South Bend in March of '45 and went to Reynolds Machinery in Cleveland. In April, it went to Neil Machine of Lima, Oh. Neil Machine was a defense contractor that had a Navy contract to build tow targets for aerial gunners to practice on.



I don't know how long it stayed there, but it changed hands a few times and it was at a local school for awhile, until he purchased it.

 Although quite filthy, everything seemed to be there with no missing parts on the lathe itself. But it didn't have much tooling. It has a 6" Union 3 jaw chuck, but with only the large diameter outside jaws. The chuck is actually pretty tight with little wear, but the killer is it only has the one set of jaws. Other than that, it came with a #2 morse dead center and an Armstrong lantern tool post, with one holder and 3 pieces of hss tool bits....almost bare essentials.

 When I acquired this, I thought it would make another winter project, but I was wrong.....since this butted right up to the completion of the Seneca Falls project, I couldn't stop.....like Lays potato chips, can't eat just one! So I started in right away.     more to come.


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## RockingJ

Nice project! I like your plan of training a person to run it properly! 

I think a good manual machinist will be in high demand, the kids coming out of high school only want to learn CNC, if it doesn’t have a computer, they aren’t interested. There will always be a need for manual machinists.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## derf

The first thing I tackled was the drive train. The motor on it was not an original, (big surprise) as most of the 70 yr old lathes are that have survived. Typically the motors have been replaced on these older machines which is not a big deal, but what is a big deal is when the original motor pulleys are not re-used. There could be several reasons, mostly because the newer motors have a larger shaft size, or the motor frame is slightly different. If it's a single pulley, it's not a big deal, but if it's a double pulley for a 12 or 16 speed, the original pulley is crucial to mate up to the countershaft pulleys. Unlike the cone pulleys on the spindle and countershaft that use a belt tensioner, the belt that connects the motor to the countershaft relies on the motor placement for tension. Once the motor has been adjusted for the proper tension it is tightened down and forgot about till the belt wears. To change speeds from high range to low range, this is where the FLAT pulleys on the countershaft come in. You simply roll the belt off the flat pulley, and roll it back on the other flat pulley....something you can't do with all V pulleys. And for that fact, the motor pulleys must be of compatible size to use the same length belt on both ranges.


As you can see, this had a single 2" pulley on the motor, which is not original nor close to being correct size even for a single speed. This model calls for a 2-3/32" and 3-13/32" sheeve size. Of coarse the factory pulleys are machined to those specific sizes, not something you'd find on the shelf at the hardware store. After running the numbers through several online belt length calculators, and rummaging through my stash of pulleys, I came up with a combination that worked with a little tweaking. I ended up with a 3" for the big end, and a 1-3/4" that I re-grooved for the small end and it works perfect.


I ought to mention that I also changed the motor, as the one that was on it was not reversible. I had a slight problem with the connector box interfering with the belt, so I fabbed up a lower profile version to clear. The mounting frame was also slightly off center from the old one , so I had to re-drill the mounting holes in the motor mount.


 Once that was done, I focused on rebuilding the drum switch. The face had so much wear from switching on and off, that not only was the graphic gone, but the the cover plate was .010" thinner in the wear spots. The contactors had some wear, but not enough to justify a full replacement, so I dressed them off clean and checked with an ohmmeter. There was no saving the faceplate, so I made a new one.


Now that I actually have a 16 speeds in forward and reverse, looks like the rest is dirty work.


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## derf

This machine came on a very nice stand that at first I thought was commercial made, but upon closer inspection turned out to be a custom built affair just for this machine. Who ever built it did a bang up job with rolled radius corners and top notch welding. The material is 1/8" thick, and makes the weight about 180 lbs including the drawer. I needed to put this on casters so I could roll it out of the way when I needed more room. I didn't want to raise it much, so I used some 3/8" thick angle iron, inverted to cover the casters and raise it only 
about 3/4".


I added 1/2-13" leveling screws to stabilize the base when it got to where it belonged.



 Now that this is kinda mobile, I can work on it at my leisure without hindering other work.
I tried to contain my excitement by promising myself this would not take over all my spare time, so I was relegated to just "dabbling" with one component or sub-assembly at a time. This made sure I didn't have 4000 parts scattered about, and kept my focus on the component at hand.  

 I left off with the drum switch, so I figured I would continue with everything that connected to it. The mounting base for the switch and the backgear cover. The mounting base for the switch was slightly cocked where it was screwed to the gear cover, leaving the switch out of level. After I got the first layer of crud removed, I did some grinding with a die grinder to re-contour the casting for a better fit. The gear cover was the same way....just raw casted parts connected to other raw castings that sometimes do not fit the way they were intended. I wanted a solid fit on both pieces because the switch is mounted to it and it would get a lot of use. So I spent some time fitting castings to each other, getting the most surface contact while maintaining the clearance and position. I could have cheated by using fillers such as JB weld to get a glove fit, but my intention was to powder coat the parts, which means it has to withstand 400 degrees of heat to cure. Fillers such as JB will just fall off. If I had planned to paint it, this thing would be full of filler to smooth things out. Powder coat has many advantages, but the disadvantage is there is more prep work on castings to get a smooth finish.


As it came off the machine


After a rough clean up


After the final fitment and polishing


Finally powder coated.
 Sure, it's a little more work, but a smooth slick surface is lots easier to keep clean, with the benefits of the durability of powder coating over paint.


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## derf

I kept going, getting all of the smaller stuff coated and out of the way. When I got to the saddle, I noticed the crossfeed had lots of slop in the screw and nut. I knew this had to be replaced, but the crossfeed screw is 7/16" -10 LH Acme. This is not a common size by today's standard, so I thought I might try to make one. I wanted to start with the nut first, because I figured it would be the hardest part to make. The hardest part was grinding the threading tool. Once I ground up an internal threading tool, the nut was simple. The screw.....not so much. After 2 attempts, I gave up....there has to be an easier way. Well, there is. I found some 1/2"-10 LH Acme screw stock at McMaster-Carr.  3 ft for $15.00! There was plenty of room to use 1/2" over the 7/16", and the tool I ground up will still work to make the nut. I made a new nut from red brass, and simply cut the screw from the shaft, then drilled and reamed the geared shaft and inserted the new screw and pinned it.


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## Z2V

Derf, nice work


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## derf

I knew sooner or later I would have to dive into the gearbox and gear train as this was quite noisy when I first fired it up. The gear train leading up to the gearbox was in better shape than I expected, with the usual lion share of the wear being on the feed reversing gears, most of it on the forward gear, because it gets used 90% of the time, and it's always turning. The biggest wear was inside the bore of the gears and the axle it rotates on, mostly the axle. The easiest way to overcome that, is to bore the gears out straight, and make new axles to fit. Then the reverse gear was swapped with the forward gear, as it has less tooth wear.
 The stud gear and idler gear were both in great shape, with the wear being on the shafts and bushings. I made a new shaft for the stud gear and an oversize bushing for the idler.
 Now to the gearbox.....same deal, all of the wear is on the shafts and the housing they rotate in. Where the gears rode on the shafts had minimal wear. But where the shafts rode in the housing, there's about .015-.020" slop. I wasn't crazy about building completely new shafts, then I realized I didn't have to. The shafts are assembled into the housing from the right side. This means I only have to bush the left side of the casting, the right side can be bored out to accept a pressed on sleeve on the shaft. The shafts are nominal .750" in dia. the full length. I turned the left end to .625" for the length of the wear to clean it up, and it fits into a bronze bushing installed into the housing. On the right end, it was turned to .700" for the length of the wear, then an oversize sleeve was heat shrink fitted. Once the housing was bored out for a full clean up, the sleeve was turned to fit at about .785".


My gawd did that make a difference in noise! It almost sounds like a new machine! Once in a while in the right gears, I hear a slight ringing coming from the large idler gear, probably end play, but I think a nylon washer will cure that.


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## derf

The gears now run quieter, until I closed the cover. The guard has been sagging over time and now drags on the spindle gear.                                                                                   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




The hinge pin was wobbly, and after inspection it was not any wear on the pin where it goes into the hinge bracket. The wobbliness is because it is not solid in the cover itself. If you look at the pin joint you might notice a large area that looks different that the casting. That's because it is. It's a pour of zinc or tin to secure the pin in the casting.






I fired up my torch and melted out the mixture, and this is what the pin looks like.






To re-cast this joint, I first cleaned up the bracket and turned it true to the pin hole.






I wanted the joint to be as square and tight as I could get it so the pour would not leak out.






 I then ground on the gear cover itself to get it square and fitting the bracket with minimal leakage. To position the cover, I made a tapered sleeve from a piece of pipe to center the gear cover hole to the spindle. Once I got everything in place, I clamped close to the joint.






When I melted out the pour, I saved it in a soup can, and I'm glad I did. At first glance I thought it was just lead, but after I broke some pieces off, I knew it was a  lot harder than lead and did not bend at all. I suspect it is tin or zinc. I remelted with a torch and added a smidget of wheel weight to make up for the small amount that melted and missed the can the first time.






Now it swings like a new one and doesn't drag on anything. Now I'll dress the top off and nobody will ever know...... 
  Up to this point, everything I have done is repair or maintainance and I haven't really done any "mods" yet. One thing that I noticed while working on the gear train, was the square head bolt that secures the feed reversing lever. This is slightly annoying to have to open the cover and use a wrench to change feed direction. I know that some of the 9's came with a pull knob type lever, and some with a pinch type lever like found on the 10K's.


	

		
			
		

		
	
 That particular wrench didn't come with the machine, nor did I want to buy one, so I came up with a better plan.


I replaced the square headed bolt with a SHCS, and made an "L" shaped extension that fit over the head and secured with a set screw. I turned a handle from stainless that threaded into the extension. Once the bolt tension and lever position was finalized, it is a simple as pinching the 2 levers together to loosen, then shift and push the lock lever back down.


	

		
			
		

		
	
 Since I always get confused, especially with the crossfeed direction, I made a simple brass tag for clarity. Between the lock handle and the tag, I believe it's elegant enough it looks like it always belonged there.


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## silverhawk

Wow! This is beautiful! I remember reading the posts back in May about the gear cover, and thinking I might need to do that. And the use of inverted angle iron for the casters makes me want to get busy on my next lathe stand.


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## wildcatfan

Very nice work. Wish i had a teacher showing me these tricks and techniques while i continue rework of my Hendey


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## Skowinski

Very nice, thanks for the writeup so far.  

I'm watching with interest as I'm in the process of tearing down a 9a cabinet model I picked up last month.  Was going to clean and repaint the cabinet, put the lathe back on it, and use it for awhile.  But, as is typical in my garage it's gotten out of hand and now the lathe is in 1000 pieces, with stripping and repainting starting.


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## derf

While I was assembling the tailstock, I noticed that it didn't have a graduated dial. Most lathes of that era didn't either, so I didn't think much of it. My heavy 10" has a graduated dial, but my 13" doesn't. After scouring manuals and old catalogs, I learned that the only model that came with a graduated dial on the tailstock was the 10" models. Not that it is a necessity, because the quill itself has a 1/16" scale on it, but it's nice to have definition between the lines, especially when chambering rifle barrels.
 After a harder look, I figured out why there was no dial......the hand wheel is cross pinned to the quill screw with a tapered pin. There is no room to get a collar on it and get the pin in the hand wheel. The only way to make more room is to lengthen the quill screw shank to have room for a dial. That idea sounded like much more work I didn't want to do, _modify the screw  AND make a dial.....(I was only committed to a dial) _so I had to think outside the box, so to say and came up with a better plan.


 It was simple..................
	

		
			
		

		
	



I just split the collar.
	

		
			
		

		
	



 I had to turn some clearance on the retaining nut, and the collar rides on the hand wheel journal. I filed a line on the top of the nut for reference.


I shot that oiling hole full of grease and installed the dial, it will probably never need lubed again.
 Making the dial was not hard, I used some 6061 alum. turning it oversize, then splitting with the bandsaw. I milled the mating surfaces flat, then drilled and tapped and screwed them back together. Back to the lathe to turn to final diameter and bore the through hole.
 I used a spindex with a 100 hole index plate I made to index the line cuts, and the numbers were engraved with my New Hermes engraver.
 The 2 halves mate together so good you can't tell where they split.


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## derf

While I had the spindle out, I thought it would be nice to have a spider to attach to the outboard end. I wanted it small enough that it would clear the gear cover hole, so it could be used with the cover closed. I figured the best way was to thread the spindle.



 I cut the threads 1-1/16"-20, mainly because I had a tap that size to use on the spider.


The threads didn't come out pretty as I wanted, but they are plenty good enough for the task. That end of the spindle has a gradual heat treat and it gets harder the closer you get to the gear.

 The last major task I got into was the apron. After bath in kerosene got all the caked on crud off, I disassembled and cleaned some more. One of the most noticeable areas of wear is the slop in the carriage wheel, so I made a bushing to go into the apron casting. The shaft itself had little wear, but because of the integral gear and the handwheel is pinned to it, It didn't warrant a sleeve. Now it's not quite as tight as a new one, but quite tolerable.

  Now this next step is quite a leap....and I don't know if anyone else has ever done this.
One of my pet peeves, or maybe I should say "preferences" is that I find star clutch knobs a bit out dated and cumbersome. When I got my first lathe, it was a heavy 10" with a toggle cam clutch lever. My second lathe was a 13", with a star knob clutch, that I found that was a p.i.t.a. after being accustomed to the lever on the 10". After I studied how the toggle cam clutch worked on the 10", I made a conversion for the 13".
  The toggle cam clutch was available as an upgrade, available for all the SB lathes, sizes 10" and up. It was NEVER available for the 9's.

  The conversion I did for the 13" is an exterior conversion. I say that because I never removed the apron to do it.


This consists of 2 bearings, the rear bearing is what the cam pushes against, and the smaller bearing which the yoke pulls against. The angle iron bracket keeps the whole affair from rotating. This was relatively easy on a machine of this size because the apron is larger.

  This is the toggle cam lever on the heavy 10". All of the bearings are internal.



The toggle cam clutch itself is different from a star knob clutch, as it has a stack of clutch discs that applies friction to the face of the worm wheel, as opposed to the inside periphery of the star knob type.



The star knob clutch uses 2 half moon wedges that expand the clutch shoes against the inside of the worm wheel when the knob is tightened.




This locks the worm wheel with the clutch sleeve that is connected to the gear train. Once engaged, the whole assembly rotates as one.
 The toggle cam clutch has thrust bearings on both ends, enabling the worm wheel and clutch sleeve to engage without rotating the lever. However, there is a key that retains the position of the lever assembly from rotating from static drag.

 Now that is probably clear as mud, but it's easy to understand if you have the actual assemblies to study. My mission now is to figure out how to cram some bearings into the mix and make it work.


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## derf

The original clutch was not gonna work because there was no room to get a bearing on the end and have clearance for the oil trough cover. That's where I had to do some "re-injuneerin".
The bearing I used is about 3/8" thick, so I had to make up for that amount in the thickness in the clutch. The original clutch shoes were replaced with a "coned" set I made from 12L14. Then the "expander cone" was made to contain the bearing and end up flush with the end of the worm wheel.















 Of course I had to make a new drawbar,a swivel nut, binder cam and the retainer bushing.
The drawbar has a screwdriver slot cut in the end for adjustment once the swivel nut is on.
There is a grub screw in the swivel nut to lock it in place. The swivel nut has a pin that protrudes out the back that engages in a hole in the retainer bushing. That keeps the drawbar from rotating. To keep the retainer bushing from rotating, there is a clamp on the bottom of the apron.
  Normally on the factory version, the retainer bushing is inside the apron. The bushing has a key that mates with a keyway on the drawbar, and then the bushing is secured into the apron with a grub screw. There was not any room for a retainer bushing in the apron, so I had to place the bushing_ outside _the apron. To make this work, the apron casting had to be modified for concentricity.


 After the boss was milled to be square and concentric to the rest of the world, a pocket was milled for the retainer bushing clamp.



A hole was drilled and tapped for 10-32 clamp & screw.



  The retainer bushing houses the outboard bearing.











 Once assembled, the clutch was adjusted in the ball park, then fine tuned by turning the worm wheel with the retaining bushing clamp left loose. When it's good, just tighten the clamp. If further adjust is needed after the apron is installed, the grub screw on the swivel nut is loosened, and the drawbar can be adjusted with a screwdriver, but you must remove the pivot pin for access. Kinda trial and error, but doable. The angle of the lever can also be adjusted by the clamp on the bottom.

  WHEWWW!     That was a lot! but worth it......it works good as a factory version!


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## derf

After I celebrated the triumph with the clutch lever, the only thing left was to paint the bed. Everything I could fit into my shop oven got powder coated, the bed and base had to be painted. I made a  powder coat color sample, and took it to the local Ace Hardware for a match. After some mis-communication, I finally got the paint. I only requested a quart, for some reason they made a gallon. For the screw up, they let me have the gallon for $11.00.
 Anyway, I used some gloss hardener and japan drier in this oil based enamel, and it dries in about 1 hour.
 I pulled the sub bases from bed for easier handling and I noticed that bottoms of the bases were raw casting......not machined. I figured it would be beneficial that they were flat and the same height, so I gave them a clean up cut with a face mill.



 Before final assembly, I focused on improving the base cabinet by re-vamping the drawer(s)
Originally it had one big drawer in the center that slid (and not very good) just on angle iron and flat tracks. I removed the angle iron and mounted the drawer on roller slides to the left side of the cabinet. This left room for 2 more drawers stacked on the right side. Below the drawers, I added doors to the bottom and a 12" high shelf inside.
	

		
			
		

		
	



The hardware for the doors and the big drawer actually came from an old SS barbecue grill
that I shoulda scrapped long ago.


  I added the shelf and backsplash for a place to store tools and way to mount the work light.


  One of the last things I done....I spindle speed chart made from brass.






  This was another fun project, that I thoroughly enjoyed and learned from, thanks for watching.
 My "student" and new owner, now has about 8 hrs on this machine. I told him before he could haul it off, he had to show me some skill, so class was in session. In 4 hrs, I had him threading like a pro. A little slow, but precise. Patience is a plus...


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## francist

That's one beautiful looking machine now, I'll say. Very nice.

-frank


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## bss1

Wow great job. My first lathe was an SB 9” with V pulleys like that. This is one of the best restorations I have seen. Congrats to the new owner!


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## craptain

What a beautiful looking lathe. The clutch conversion is a work of art. I would never have dreamed of doing it. And the cabinet conversion makes far more efficient use of the space. 
Thanks for the write up. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Skowinski

Repeating others, but amazing work.  I wish I had half the skills and abilities you obviously do!

The war production board tag - how did you clean that up?  I have a couple of old SB tags on my cabinet that I'd like to save, one just a little crusty and old looking, and another that someone painted partially over when they did a hurried job.


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## derf

The biggest obstacle to overcome when restoring badges is getting them flat, second to getting them off in one piece without much damage. Once I got the war badge off, I soaked it in lacquer thinner and scrubbed with a tooth brush to strip all the paint and crud off. Once it was down to bare metal, I rolled it with a chunk of 1-1/2 round stock on my surface plate. Roll in several directions to make sure all the high and low spots become invisible.
  You can use paint, or powder coat to re-color the background. Make sure the paint is applied evenly and not too thick. Once fully cured, wet sand on a flat surface like a sheet of glass or surface plate. Pay attention to when the lettering starts to appear, making sure that the colored background doesn't start to sand off where you don't want it to. If this happens,
stop sanding and then use an exacto knife to scape off the paint from the lettering. This can get tedious, and you might have to use a magnifier, but depending how bad the tag is, it is the most effective way to get clean crisp letters. After the lettering is satisfactory, give it a coat of clear finish.

  I didn't put that much effort into the gearbox chart, because it was still very legible and showed little wear. I scrubbed the dirt off and left the original patina or "stank" then clear coated it.


  In the condition I got it, you can see that the chart doesn't fit very well on the gearbox casting with a lot of gaps. Typically a fit this bad usually results in several dents and dings around the edges that are unsupported. When I removed the chart, I found there was a big hump in the gearbox casting under the center of the chart, causing this not to wrap very good. I ground out the hump on the casting and then rolled and finessed the chart to fit with a slight dish in the center, making all the edges tight to the casting. I did have to move the original holes slightly to mate to the casting on account of the slight stretch. You can see part of it in this pic.


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## bss1

This may sound strange but I had good luck polishing similar badges on my south bend, Burke Millrite, and DoAll bandsaw using Flitz metal polish. The original paint was still on them, just oxidized and dirty. You may want to try it on something less obvious at first.


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## Tim9

Very nice looking lathe.


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## savarin

a beautiful restoration, thanks for showing it.


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## Janderso

Beautiful,
Thank you for the inspiration and ideas  doesn't do it justice. That is incredible work my friend.
You have plenty of talent, you can take that to the bank!
Thank you for the ideas and inspiration.


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## thenrie

Well, this surely ain't your grandpa's old lathe! Nice work. Very nice. And some ingenious ideas for upgrades, as well.


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## kopeck

The clutch mod is brilliant.  I may give it a go at some point.

You could probably make/sell the spindle speed charts. 

K


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## dmittz

Beautiful lathe, you did a fantastic job!   

I redid a 9a last year also, it was a fun project.


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## Downunder Bob

A great project done with excellent skill and care, your student is a lucky lad indeed.


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## mmcmdl

Just got a 9A . What is the spindle mount ? There is a Bison self centering 4 jaw on it with no spanner wrench hole . Been on there for most likely 40 years . Straight thread RH or taper lock ? I don't want to keep smacking these jaws !  TIA . Dave And yes , that is one sweet looking lathe .


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## mmcmdl

derf said:


> After scouring manuals and old catalogs, I learned that the only model that came with a graduated dial on the tailstock was the 10" models.



Ooookaay The SB has a graduated dial . So now it's a 10" !  It grew an inch overnight .


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## mmcmdl

Chuck and backplate off . Looks like 10" Heavy shortbed with undermount motor . Bed is badly worn , it has been a polishing lathe only for years and years . May turn out to be a donor .  Either that , just use it as it is .


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## Janderso

Beautiful job.


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## benmychree

That motor that you took off was from a gas station gasoline pump; explosion proof.  I used one like it to run a swedging machine to form a point on 1/16" stainless needle tube, to be used for checking pressure in wine bottles after corking to see if the vacuum corking machines were doing their job, made many thousands of them, after pointing they were cross drilled in one side near the point and a brass 1/16 NPT plug soldered to the other end; these made me a lot of $.


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## finsruskw

As my old D.I. would say.….OUTSTANDING!!!
I just found this thread while searching for inspiration to continue the work on my SB 9A.
And I must say the War Production Board would be very proud of you!!!
If my project turns out 1/2 as well as yours I will be happy!
Very Very super job!
Congrats!!


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## Downunder Bob

To all you guys restoring / repairing southbend lathes and finding parts hard to come by. there was a company here in Australia that made a very highly regarded clone called the Hercus, various models. There is still quite a stock of spare parts being held here in Australia for these machines. As I understand it many of the parts will fit as they are truly identical.


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## Janderso

Yeah, I found this again. Derf, outclassed me in so many ways. Heck, even his photo follow up of the targeted pieces was well done. 
That lathe should be all messed up with oil, dings and chips by now.
He did such a beautiful job, it's almost too pretty to use, almost.


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## finsruskw

My end GB cover plate is missing a tag. The holes are there though.
Was wondering just what that tag is/was and are there re-pops available for them?


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## craptain

finsruskw said:


> My end GB cover plate is missing a tag. The holes are there though.
> Was wondering just what that tag is/was and are there re-pops available for them?


That's usually the threading table, for the change gears. I have seen replicas available but it depends on the model. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## finsruskw

My lathe has the QCGB.
Would that also have been on the end cap for that lathe?
I can see where one was at one time by the change in color at the outline of it.
Was thinking maybe some one swapped it out in the past then


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## craptain

finsruskw said:


> My lathe has the QCGB.
> Would that also have been on the end cap for that lathe?
> I can see where one was at one time by the change in color at the outline of it.
> Was thinking maybe some one swapped it out in the past then


No, but as you guessed the cover might not be original. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## Executioner

Very nice. Beautiful machine.


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## dmittz

Thank you!  I works just like new.


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## hudstr

looks great, you definitly have more patients than I do, fixing things the proper way.


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## dmittz

hudstr said:


> looks great, you definitly have more patients than I do, fixing things the proper way.


Thanks, yes I tried to do it right.


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## savarin

What an awesome restoration, I believe its now better than when it left the factory.
Fantastic work.


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## dmittz

savarin said:


> What an awesome restoration, I believe its now better than when it left the factory.
> Fantastic work.


Thank you that's kind of you too say.  It is certainly a wonderful little machine to use now that it's restored.


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## Riverlandrobo

derf said:


> Some of you guys may remember this little crudball I acquired back in April...
> View attachment 275273
> 
> View attachment 275274
> 
> 
> I had just completed the last project, the Seneca Falls #30 resto-mod,(project of the month) when this lathe found it's way to me via a friend of a friend. My friend, who is also a tool salesman, showed me a pic of this on his phone, which came from his friend, the seller, who now is a retired  tool room supervisor. He had this in his back building just taking up space and wanted the room for some of his restoration projects.
> I told him I would take it, and explained to him what my mission was.  With the lack of training facilities and instructors to teach skilled trades these days, my mission is to educate a passionate individual some skills that seems to be disappearing more every day, if I have to do it one student at a time!
> I already had a student lined up to not only learn, but to eventually purchase this lathe once we got it up to date. He thought this was a noble plan, and let me have this machine for a very obscene low price.
> He also done the research and got the pick card from South Bend. This model was made in 1945. It left South Bend in March of '45 and went to Reynolds Machinery in Cleveland. In April, it went to Neil Machine of Lima, Oh. Neil Machine was a defense contractor that had a Navy contract to build tow targets for aerial gunners to practice on.
> View attachment 275280
> 
> 
> I don't know how long it stayed there, but it changed hands a few times and it was at a local school for awhile, until he purchased it.
> 
> Although quite filthy, everything seemed to be there with no missing parts on the lathe itself. But it didn't have much tooling. It has a 6" Union 3 jaw chuck, but with only the large diameter outside jaws. The chuck is actually pretty tight with little wear, but the killer is it only has the one set of jaws. Other than that, it came with a #2 morse dead center and an Armstrong lantern tool post, with one holder and 3 pieces of hss tool bits....almost bare essentials.
> 
> When I acquired this, I thought it would make another winter project, but I was wrong.....since this butted right up to the completion of the Seneca Falls project, I couldn't stop.....like Lays potato chips, can't eat just one! So I started in right away.     more to come.


When I was starting out I wanted to learn everything I could, took introduction to machine shop at the community college,  traveled 25 miles one way to a retired machinists house to learn advanced machining skills from him....he had no kids...he was a genius!!! When you entered his shop he had a big picture on the wall of Albert Einstein......he would give me little quizzes Like...for a 1/2 -13 tap what is the major and minor hole diameter!! I told him if I wanted to know that I would look in the Machinery Handbook...that was the answer he hated the most...he said I should have that memorized!!! He made his money making vintage aircraft control cables and parts.....I helped....watched him make the Swaging Dies to squeeze the cable ends on the control cables....he would send them out to be tested....when the Lab gave the seal of Approval,   the order was for 25 different lengths of cables for B-17 flying fortress.....he was An Amazing man.....sometimes his belittling of my Knowledge was almost unbearable,and I thought why the hell drive all the way over here for this kind of verbal Abuse!!! I sucked it up as what I was Learning from him was in No text book....he would say...pay Attention you wont see this in any textbook....and he was Right.....I took the time to drive there to learn as much from him as I could....my point being....I hired a good young man to do my firewood....he wanted to learn advanced welding so after firewood I would show him advanced welding techniques....also had him on the Lodge and shipley bevelling a bunch of pins..this was after piling firewood for pay......he was 17 and had no drivers license yet...i encouraged him to get his license then he could drive himself to the shop like i did for my schooling....he got his License and when he was done with the firewood or other paying jobs he was gone....to play video games and party with his friends...i had high Hope's to pass on the trades and skills to someone young and he could pass it on to someone.....it just isnt there today...i had high Hope's as this kid has what it takes as far as brains....but no drive to learn as i had unless he is getting paid and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for someone to learn from me the skills i acquired......Oh well just my take on the subject....anyone else have the same experience?????


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## finsruskw

Kind of off topic here, so mods, please delete if so.
This post just brought up some memories here

Great post Riverland!!
So sad, but true!!
I grew up in a small Iowa town in the 50's
My first stop after school every day walking home, yes, walking, was the local blacksmith's shop to see what was going on.
Always something going on.
Sometimes he would even let me don a helmet and watch him weld something.
Are there even blacksmith shops anymore??


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## Riverlandrobo

finsruskw said:


> Great post!!
> So sad, but true!!
> I grew up in a small Iowa town in the 50's
> My first stop after school every day walking home, yes, walking, was the local blacksmith's shop to see what was going on.
> Always something going on.
> Sometimes he would even let me don a helmet and watch him weld something.
> Are there even blacksmith shops anymore??


A gent down the road is the blacksmith at the steam and gas at the fairgrounds in our town....we were talking about heat treating steel...he was talking about the colors steel makes and the right color for determining the proper time to quench the steel.....I told him there was a better way to know when the transition temperature was reached for quenching....and he said and when is that....I told him when a magnet wont attract the steel anymore...he gave me a Look like I was full of B.S.!!!!  Saw him a while after that and he said the magnet method was far more accurate of a way and where did I ever learn that....it was in Guy Lautards bedside Reader many years ago....I have all of Mr Lautards bedside readers....lots of very valuable info in them!!!


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## Larry$

DMITTZ, I just looked at all you your photos on the SB, Beautiful job.


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## dmittz

Larry$ said:


> DMITTZ, I just looked at all you your photos on the SB, Beautiful job.


Thank you!


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## JeffStreak

Wow this is awesome


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## Logan Novice

Beautiful restoration job.  I am amazed at how so many lathes of that period seem to have been manufactured from the same set of design plans.  I did a "reconditioning" (I like to maintain the surface signs of age) of an old Montgomery Wards "Logan" (https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/logan-wards.87828/#post-787696) a while back and that circa 1941 model could be the fraternal twin of your machine.


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## DglOC

Great job! I did mine about the same time as you were doing yours. I didn't polish and powder coat. Kind of wish i had it looks so nice.


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## Logan Novice

Riverlandrobo said:


> When I was starting out..."


Great post; sad story.  When I was about 13 there was an old guy close to our place of residence who repaired cars ....  in a very old dilapidated shed at the side of the road.  It was dark, run down, with heavy timber wooden benches, chain hoists and smelled on petroleum produces of every variety.  The shed was at the top of a knoll with a drop off at the back.  He drove cars through the open front doors, parked them over a large hole in the floor and walked to the back of the shed and under the floor.  The hole in the floor under the car was his "lift".  I asked him if I could watch and maybe, just maybe, learn how to fix cars.  His response, "pick up those tools and follow me".  So I held tools and watched him work.  Time after time I'd hold the drop light to illuminate whatever he was working on and hand him tools.  One time he asked me if I could see the work well and, when I responded that I could, he said "then you're not holding the light right because you're supposed to be holding it so the I can see to work, not so  you can see the work".  I got my basic understanding of mechanics from that old guy ... I don't even remember his name.  But, although it's been seventy years since that period in my life, I will never forget him.


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## Harley80

You are doing a great job on that lathe! My 9a is basically in the same condition as the day I bought it from an 85 year old guy in my neighborhood. I added a taper attachment and a thread dial. That’s about it. I should take it down and try to do what you’ve done. Well done


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## KP1

You do beautiful work. Thank you for sharing it. Seeing work like this inspires me for my own projects.


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## allischick

Wow.  Now I need to start doing some upgrades to my South Bend!  What have you just gotten me into???  LOL


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## derewa2

That is too nice to use!


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## luap

derf said:


> Some of you guys may remember this little crudball I acquired back in April...
> View attachment 275273
> 
> View attachment 275274
> 
> 
> I had just completed the last project, the Seneca Falls #30 resto-mod,(project of the month) when this lathe found it's way to me via a friend of a friend. My friend, who is also a tool salesman, showed me a pic of this on his phone, which came from his friend, the seller, who now is a retired  tool room supervisor. He had this in his back building just taking up space and wanted the room for some of his restoration projects.
> I told him I would take it, and explained to him what my mission was.  With the lack of training facilities and instructors to teach skilled trades these days, my mission is to educate a passionate individual some skills that seems to be disappearing more every day, if I have to do it one student at a time!
> I already had a student lined up to not only learn, but to eventually purchase this lathe once we got it up to date. He thought this was a noble plan, and let me have this machine for a very obscene low price.
> He also done the research and got the pick card from South Bend. This model was made in 1945. It left South Bend in March of '45 and went to Reynolds Machinery in Cleveland. In April, it went to Neil Machine of Lima, Oh. Neil Machine was a defense contractor that had a Navy contract to build tow targets for aerial gunners to practice on.
> View attachment 275280
> 
> 
> I don't know how long it stayed there, but it changed hands a few times and it was at a local school for awhile, until he purchased it.
> 
> Although quite filthy, everything seemed to be there with no missing parts on the lathe itself. But it didn't have much tooling. It has a 6" Union 3 jaw chuck, but with only the large diameter outside jaws. The chuck is actually pretty tight with little wear, but the killer is it only has the one set of jaws. Other than that, it came with a #2 morse dead center and an Armstrong lantern tool post, with one holder and 3 pieces of hss tool bits....almost bare essentials.
> 
> When I acquired this, I thought it would make another winter project, but I was wrong.....since this butted right up to the completion of the Seneca Falls project, I couldn't stop.....like Lays potato chips, can't eat just one! So I started in right away.     more to come.


Great job on restoring the  Lathe , teaching others to operate a lathe . The schools use to have adult education, woodworking ,crafts etc.......


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