# CNC Vise - My Version



## TomS (Aug 2, 2018)

After seeing the Saunders Machine Works Modular Vise I decided I could make my own, with a few changes.  After all, isn't copying someone else's idea the ultimate compliment as long as it isn't used for commercial gain?

I used the same Carr-Lane and Mitee Bite jaws as the SMW vise but altered most of the dimensions to suit my needs.



The mounting bolt and dowel pin pattern matches my fixture plate.


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## spumco (Aug 4, 2018)

That's my next project, but I really want the sliding feature of the SMW version.


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## TomS (Aug 4, 2018)

spumco said:


> That's my next project, but I really want the sliding feature of the SMW version.



I changed the mounting feature to fit my fixture plate.  Did you know the SMW vise is modeled and saved in Fusion 360?  You can access the model, make any changes you want, then create your CAM.


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## Brento (Aug 4, 2018)

Where did you find the fixture idea?


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## spumco (Aug 4, 2018)

TomS said:


> I changed the mounting feature to fit my fixture plate.  Did you know the SMW vise is modeled and saved in Fusion 360?  You can access the model, make any changes you want, then create your CAM.



Oh yes indeed.  My 4th axis trunnion table _may_ have been modeled with the same hole/thread/spacing as the SMW Tormach fixture plate.


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## TomS (Aug 4, 2018)

Brento said:


> Where did you find the fixture idea?



I follow the NYCCNC videos and saw it there.  Thought it was a good way to hold raw stock for first operation machining.  I could have bought it from Saunders Machine Works but what fun is that.  I studied the pictures and created my own model.  After spending several hours creating my model I discovered that SMW posted it to Fusion 360.  Surprisingly my model was very close to the Saunders Machine Works model.


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## Brento (Aug 4, 2018)

Is it easy to make the holders for the fixtures or is it better buying them? Also your opinion on if these fixtures are worth making for manual mills? Im still starting out and making up a project list.


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## spumco (Aug 4, 2018)

If they fit your T-slots, then maybe they're worth making.  Getting them indicated/perpendicular/square will be fussy.  I'm using a dowel-pin fixture plate that automatically aligns them.

How hard are they to make?  if you make them flat like TomS, no sweat.  If you make them like the SMW version with the taper then it'll be fussy making the angled top and clamp plate.

Unless you have a 4th axis trunnion table, then can cheat and tilt the table and go to town...


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## Brento (Aug 4, 2018)

Oh i can make a fixture plate for it to stay stationary on and indicate the plate if i do it. I dont have any accessories except the vice on my mill. I plan on making my own idexer using gears from my lathe at some point. I dont have anything set up as i am house hunting currently.


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## TomS (Aug 4, 2018)

Brento said:


> Is it easy to make the holders for the fixtures or is it better buying them? Also your opinion on if these fixtures are worth making for manual mills? Im still starting out and making up a project list.



I would make them before buying.  That's why I have mills, lathes and drill presses and tooling to go with them.


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## Brento (Aug 5, 2018)

So which of the clamps are better? The mitee bites or the other style clamps?


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## spumco (Aug 5, 2018)

Check out both manufacturer's web sites.  The mitee-bite Pitbull clamps are taller, but have more gripping power.  The Carr-lane are lower and are reversible (serrated & smooth) but have less holding power.

Make a set for each type and you'd be in business.


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## TomS (Aug 5, 2018)

Brento said:


> So which of the clamps are better? The mitee bites or the other style clamps?



One set of clamps are stationary and the other set is movable.  Here's the link to the Mitte Bite TalonGrip clamps.   https://www.miteebite.com/products/talongrip/.  The Mitee Bites are the stationary ones.  Here's a link to the Carr-Lane clamps.  https://www.carrlane.com/en-us/prod...edge-clamps/tiny-vise-edge-clamps-low-profile.


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## P. Waller (Sep 4, 2018)

What makes a vice "CNC" ?
Is it machine controlled?


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## Bob Korves (Sep 4, 2018)

P. Waller said:


> What makes a vice "CNC" ?
> Is it machine controlled?


If they put "CNC" in the part number, then they can raise the price by 50%.


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## P. Waller (Sep 4, 2018)

Bob Korves said:


> If they put "CNC" in the part number, then they can raise the price by 50%.


I approve of this.

I have often pondered what segment of the population is the most effected by keywords.
Young motorcycle fanatics are easily swayed, adding a few buzzwords goes a long way such as CNC machined, machined from "billet aircraft aluminum", carbon fibre is an excellent keyword, nanotechnology may be the next big one. Remember Boeing makes every single part from Aircraft Grade Aluminum, including the handles on the toilets

We make motorcycle seats from the smallest carbon atoms available.

Now adult golfers appear to have a good deal of disposable income and seem prone to hyperbole, Dynamically Balanced, Titanium, once again CNC Machined, Carbon Fibre, , Computer Designed, Counter Balanced, Laser Etched, Laser Cut and so on.

My plan is to produce a driver that is exactly what golfers want.
It begins with tree parts that have been buried under peat in the Scottish Mores for centuries, the blanks are extracted, turned on CNC lathes then composited with Carbon Nanofibres in a hearth that is controlled by a PID micro processor and a bitter old woman from Red Point. Afterwards the club head is added to the shaft.

This is the difficult part, it must be investment cast from 3 metals that the average consumer is not familiar with such as Tantalum, Bismuth and alloys such as Iron Oxide, the Iron Oxide provides a barrier to corrosion induced by the oxygen in the air.

This should work a charm, I have already given it a name, BisTaintium


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## Bob Korves (Sep 5, 2018)

P. Waller said:


> I have often pondered what segment of the population is the most effected by keywords.


Too true.  There is a large portion of our population that is enamored with technical hype, and so they pay through the nose for their toys...


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## spumco (Sep 5, 2018)

Tactical.
Nano-(insert anything here).
Surface treatment XXX
Hyper-(insert anything here)
Carbotainium.
Polyeverythene.
S-NorTaintium.

It saddens my heart when folks I know, who are otherwise rather intelligent, buy (and talk about) the stuff they lust after due to marketing jargon.  The marketing brochures I get at work (petrochem) are just as bad.

Any hobby, interest, or profession which requires fairly specialized gear/equipment of some sort is probably fodder for this.

If you're looking to make/sell a product where it's likely that marketing tech-hype will improve sales due to emotional buy-in, look for a market segment with the following variables:

Emotional investment in activity (golf)
High-income participants (golf)
Large target market (golf)
Low-information participants (golf) 

I think I need to start CNC machining aircraft-grade aluminum, carbon-fibre (_note swank spelling_) wrapped, nano-dipped golf tees.


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## TomS (Sep 5, 2018)

I'm saddened to see that this has moved to a "bash-the-poster" forum.  I posted because I thought it would be interesting for others to see or learn from what I had done.  It being my post I can call it whatever I want.  I chose to call it a CNC vise because the original concept was created by a company focused on CNC machining and building tooling for that purpose.  I tweaked the design specifically to use the vise on my CNC mill for CNC machining.  Hence the title, CNC Vise - My Version.  Some may think these last few posts are humorous, I don't.


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## P. Waller (Sep 5, 2018)

No one bashed the poster only people whom are easily swayed by techno babel and marketing hype.

You don't perchance play golf do you?


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## spumco (Sep 5, 2018)

Tom,
I apologize completely if you feel slighted. Not my intention whatsoever. Sounds like my attempt to heap scorn on folks who buy in to techno marketing methods fell flat.

You do good work, and I appreciate your sharing that work here. Please keep it up.
-Ralph


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## TomS (Sep 5, 2018)

P. Waller said:


> No one bashed the poster only people whom are easily swayed by techno babel and marketing hype.
> 
> You don't perchance play golf do you?



I suggest you go to another forum where negative comments are welcome.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Sep 5, 2018)

just while looking through the OP (lovely work by the way) I started thinking about making a set of soft jaws for my mill vise with a set of O1 hardened "mitee-bite" style clamps for holding thin work. Not a priority project, but it would be neat to do and give me a bit more confidence holding work by the very edge - thin stuff or projects where I need to mill the outside almost to the bottom. I'll add this to my "cogitate while commuting" list, thanks


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## Bob Korves (Sep 5, 2018)

My comments had nothing whatsoever to do with your fine post, Tom.  It was all about Madison Avenue and the machining equivalent.  Being that it seems to have pulled the post off topic, I regret my posting and extend my sincere hope to get the post back on track.


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## TomS (Sep 5, 2018)

Bob Korves said:


> My comments had nothing whatsoever to do with your fine post, Tom.  It was all about Madison Avenue and the machining equivalent.  Being that it seems to have pulled the post off topic, I regret my posting and extend my sincere hope to get the post back on track.



Bob - what got me going was my thread was hijacked and used to further someone else's agenda.  I'm always open to different views and criticism when it relates to the subject matter of the original post.  I respect you and Spumco for responding in the way you did.  It speaks volumes to your character.  Let's move on.


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## rgray (Sep 5, 2018)

In the Kurt vise the cnc version is missing the drain-back channels that a manual machine user would want to make the coolant find it's way back into the slots.
Your's has no drain channels so it's a cnc vise.


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## rgray (Sep 5, 2018)

Very nice job also. 
Looks like it well work well.!!


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## spumco (Sep 5, 2018)

I've been thinking about making one of these too.  I have a 4th axis with trunnion table so duplicating the SMW design with the tapered top and matching clamp bar for the movable jaw woudn't be too hard.

But since I'm lazy, I'm thinking that a simple 3D tool path machined from the top (part held flat) would result in scallops.  But...

A small finishing stepover at fairly high speed (so it doesn't take forever) might result in better holding power. Or at least not worse.  And save some serious setup time, especially if somone didn't have a 4th axis.

Moveable jaw:
1. Deck the bottom and profile the sides - flip.
2. Do the top drilling and slotting, and then cut down the tapered section (flat in Tom's version) using a 3D adaptive.  Finishing pass with a bullnose with about a 0.015" stepover.
3. Bolt to an angle plate, indicate the jaw 'face' and drill-slot-whatever for the parallels.

Critique?


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## P. Waller (Sep 5, 2018)

TomS said:


> I suggest you go to another forum where negative comments are welcome.


Thanks for the advice.
However I see nothing negative until now.


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## TomS (Sep 5, 2018)

spumco said:


> I've been thinking about making one of these too.  I have a 4th axis with trunnion table so duplicating the SMW design with the tapered top and matching clamp bar for the movable jaw woudn't be too hard.
> 
> But since I'm lazy, I'm thinking that a simple 3D tool path machined from the top (part held flat) would result in scallops.  But...
> 
> ...



I'm not familiar with 4th axis code but couldn't you use your trunnion table to do steps 2 and 3?


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## spumco (Sep 5, 2018)

TomS said:


> I'm not familiar with 4th axis code but couldn't you use your trunnion table to do steps 2 and 3?


Yes, absolutely. But my trunnion isnt as rigid as a vise on the table, and I was brain-storming ways for anyone else to duplicate the original sliding version.


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## TomS (Sep 5, 2018)

spumco said:


> Yes, absolutely. But my trunnion isnt as rigid as a vise on the table, and I was brain-storming ways for anyone else to duplicate the original sliding version.



Got it.  When I machined mine I bought 1-1/2" thick stock.  This gave me 3/8" of an inch, or thereabouts, to hold it in my vise.  Setup 1 was to machine all of the top side details and the perimeter.  Setup 2 was machine the bottom side to achieve 1-1/8" thickness.  Setup 3 was as you described: clamp part to angle plate and drill/tap the parallel mounting holes.  You could certainly do it as you have laid out.  I see no down side to doing it either way.


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## spumco (Nov 25, 2018)

Tom - As I threatened, I finally got around to making my own using the Pitbull version.  Thanks for the inspiration.

-Ralph

Details for the interested:

1.25"x4" stock
*Adjustable side:*  Machined bottom first down to the lowest part of the taper.  Flipped and did all the top features.  3rd OP drilled/tapped parallel mount holes.  Tapered surface was machined using a 3/8" 0.060" bullnose in two passes.  Last pass was 0.005" axial and 0.025" stepover.  Very nice surface.

Machining time about 35 minutes - most stock was removed using a 3/8" 5 flute carbide fine toothed rougher (that's the reason for the 'glitter' in the photo).

*Fixed side:* Machined everything from the top and flipped and removed the mushroom off the bottom.  Figured it was critical to get the dowel pin holes reamed in the same setup as the registration edges the clamps bear against.

*Clamp bars:* 1/2"x1"x4" stock.  Profile and taper bottom first with the same taper settings as on the adjustable half.  Flipped and cleaned off the top hat.

Also made some non-marring flat face bars in steel and brass.  The Talon-Grips are great, but dig in like mad.


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## TomS (Nov 26, 2018)

spumco said:


> Tom - As I threatened, I finally got around to making my own using the Pitbull version.  Thanks for the inspiration.
> 
> -Ralph
> 
> ...



Very nice!  I like the concept of the center jaw.  Just might steal that idea.

Thanks for sharing.


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## spumco (Nov 26, 2018)

TomS said:


> Very nice! I like the concept of the center jaw. Just might steal that idea.



SMW appears to have recently changed their design a bit from the original offering.  I had always planned to make a double-sided fixed jaw, but when I went to their site to order a bunch of pitbulls and talons I saw they had changed the design to almost the same thing I had in my head.  Their new design is much more elegant and is likely cheaper/faster than the original to maufacture.  Those guys are on the ball.

BTW, Saunders has the best prices on Talons, Pitbulls, and Tiny-vise clamps around - I didn't buy the hardware from them solely out of guilt  

For anyone interested in making their own the only major hurdle I've encountered has been the stupid paralells.  It appears you can't just buy one pair of 4" parallels.  I spent more time scouring the internet for a pair of parallels - didn't want to buy a whole $70 set just to get one 1" pair - than I did doing the CAM for all the components. No luck.

So I punted and bought enough .125"x1" ground A2 flat stock to make 3 pairs.  Also bought some .250x1" to make some thicker ones.  If anyone has a source of single pairs of parallels post it up here for others.

Do they work?  Yes.  They're awesome.  If you want some but don't have the time to make them I'd recommend buying a set from SMW.

-Ralph


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## TomS (Nov 26, 2018)

spumco said:


> SMW appears to have recently changed their design a bit from the original offering.  I had always planned to make a double-sided fixed jaw, but when I went to their site to order a bunch of pitbulls and talons I saw they had changed the design to almost the same thing I had in my head.  Their new design is much more elegant and is likely cheaper/faster than the original to maufacture.  Those guys are on the ball.
> 
> BTW, Saunders has the best prices on Talons, Pitbulls, and Tiny-vise clamps around - I didn't buy the hardware from them solely out of guilt
> 
> ...



I bought the Talon Grips and Tiny Vise clamps from SMW as well.  Their price was good but more importantly they were the only source I could find that had them in stock.

I looked for 4" parallels as well and didn't have any luck finding any.  I went with 1/8" x 1" cold rolled steel as I had some on hand.  So far they work fine.


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## petertha (Nov 27, 2018)

Nice. Maybe I missed it, but what was the selected material choice (way back in post-1)


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## TomS (Nov 27, 2018)

petertha said:


> Nice. Maybe I missed it, but what was the selected material choice (way back in post-1)



Material is 6061 T6 aluminum for the jaw bodies.  Steel is also an option.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Aug 2, 2020)

I realize this is an old thread, but beautiful work!
In my poor decision making, knee jerk reaction, I bought a Kurt DX6. Don't get me wrong, it's very nice and incredible hold. Being I since purchased a Small CNC mill, the 4 inch Tormach works well, but I'd like to have much lover profile and attach to the fixture plate. The problem now is my fixture plate is 3/8" x20 tpi, most modular vises are 1/2" x 13 tpi. I'd love to make my own, but honestly am not clear how they even work. Does anyone know where to find these Fusion 360 SMW vice files that were discussed? I searched...nada. I'd pop for the Sauders, but the hardware is not compatible with my tooling plate.


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## TomS (Aug 2, 2020)

GunsOfNavarone said:


> I realize this is an old thread, but beautiful work!
> In my poor decision making, knee jerk reaction, I bought a Kurt DX6. Don't get me wrong, it's very nice and incredible hold. Being I since purchased a Small CNC mill, the 4 inch Tormach works well, but I'd like to have much lover profile and attach to the fixture plate. The problem now is my fixture plate is 3/8" x20 tpi, most modular vises are 1/2" x 13 tpi. I'd love to make my own, but honestly am not clear how they even work. Does anyone know where to find these Fusion 360 SMW vice files that were discussed? I searched...nada. I'd pop for the Sauders, but the hardware is not compatible with my tooling plate.



The file is still there.  Open up F360 and expand the data panel.  Scroll down to Cam Samples then select Workholding and finally click on Saunders Machine Works.  It's the last file on the list.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Aug 2, 2020)

Wow...ok. That is beyond my F360 skills as far as editing that to work with my fixture plate. Super thank you though. It seems they also have their latest version on their actual web page where they are selling the unit. Can't get it to generate tool paths, not sure if it locked so to speak.


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## spumco (Aug 2, 2020)

GunsOfNavarone said:


> Can't get it to generate tool paths, not sure if it locked so to speak.


You have to save a copy in your own projects/folder.  Once you have it saved you can then edit & CAM it up.

So the way the Gen2 works is that there is a fixed side and an adjustable side. Both sides have a base plate and a top jaw.

Fixed uses pins to locate it, plus two low head cap screws to hold it down to the fixture table.
Adjustable side is two-piece.  The bottom can slide on the cap screws, and the top jaw is what clamps the part.
The top jaw has oblong holes with a taper to match a standard flat head screw.
Fixed plate is tightened down, and the adjustable plate is slid up to the part.  The edges of the base plates act as parallels when the Talon grips are used, or normal parallels can be used if the top jaws are flipped.
When the adjustable side top jaw flat head screws are tightened, the screw taper engages the oval hole taper and forces the top jaw towards the fixed jaw - clamping the part.
My homemade version is based on the Gen1.  The adjustable base is slid up to snug the part, and the pitbulls tighten on the part and pull it down against the parallel at the same time.

The new ones are pretty slick and take up much less room on a fixture plate - plus the ability to have soft jaws is sweet.  I suspect the Gen1 versions may have more clamping force, however.

SMW has nice videos on thier site explaining both versions.

In the best of both worlds you'd have some of each.

-Ralph


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