# SB CL 185c



## ironhorse18 (May 26, 2017)

I am looking at buying a S. B. CL 185c anyone out there familiar with this machine  Should be a 13" swing and a bed length of 60"  They have some extras also.

Thank you,
ironhorse18@frontier.com


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## RandyWilson (May 26, 2017)

Yes. The Heavy SB lathes (13, 14.5, 16) are popular here. Lots of information is available. What's the serial number of this one? It will be stamped into the ways at the tailstock end.


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## RandyWilson (May 26, 2017)

CL185C  is a 14 1/2" production lathe.  I have one.  The 13 inch would be CL145x


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## ironhorse18 (May 27, 2017)

Thank you for the information.  I am going to look at it Wednesday hopefully.  It has not been ran since the owner bought it, but he did say he ran it through all the gears before he purchased it.
If you have any suggestions on what I should inspect, please let me know.  All suggestions are appreciated.

Thank you,
ironhorse18@frontier.com

Old Vet
steve


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## ironhorse18 (May 27, 2017)

RandyWilson said:


> CL185C  is a 14 1/2" production lathe.  I have one.  The 13 inch would be CL145x



Thank you for the information. I am going to look at it Wednesday hopefully. It has not been ran since the owner bought it, but he did say he ran it through all the gears before he purchased it.
If you have any suggestions on what I should inspect, please let me know. All suggestions are appreciated.

Thank you,
ironhorse18@frontier.com

Old Vet
steve


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## RandyWilson (May 27, 2017)

What you are looking for as far as condition is wear. Wear in the ways. Wear in the bearings. excessive backlash in the controls. Undue noises, remembering that straight cut spur gears are noisy. Clean is not necessarily good. As the restoration guide opines, an oily lathe is an oiled lathe.

As far as equipment to look for. This is not a toolroom lathe, so it likely will not have a collet setup or a built in chip pan. It may have a taper attachment. Depending on the year, it will either be a single tumbler or double tumbler transmission. The later double tumbler is easier to use and considered stronger. Chucks. You'll want both a 3 and a 4 jaw. It's nice to have a small and a large, also. Tooling; tool post, holders, bits, etc. are expensive to equip. Getting a large assortment to start with is a big plus. A quick change tool post by itself is $200 for chinese, and you don't want to know what the 'merican version runs. Boring bars, threading tools.  Center rest. etc. A properly equipped lathe at $2K easily beats a lathe with no accessories at less than $1K.

 This class of lathe is always three phase power. Unless you have a commercial building, you will need a phase converter. Again, a bit over $100 for an ebay'd Chinese VFD (what I run) to $500 and up for a new rotary phase converter or top shelf VFD.

If you are serious about the machine, the Ilion restoration guide sold on ebay is well worth the money as both a buyers guide and a care and repair manual.

 Oh, and if it comes with a stack of spare gears, one of which is 127 tooth.... we need to talk.


 Here is a sales brochure. 

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/16554.pdf


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## ironhorse18 (May 28, 2017)

RandyWilson said:


> What you are looking for as far as condition is wear. Wear in the ways. Wear in the bearings. excessive backlash in the controls. Undue noises, remembering that straight cut spur gears are noisy. Clean is not necessarily good. As the restoration guide opines, an oily lathe is an oiled lathe.
> 
> As far as equipment to look for. This is not a toolroom lathe, so it likely will not have a collet setup or a built in chip pan. It may have a taper attachment. Depending on the year, it will either be a single tumbler or double tumbler transmission. The later double tumbler is easier to use and considered stronger. Chucks. You'll want both a 3 and a 4 jaw. It's nice to have a small and a large, also. Tooling; tool post, holders, bits, etc. are expensive to equip. Getting a large assortment to start with is a big plus. A quick change tool post by itself is $200 for chinese, and you don't want to know what the 'merican version runs. Boring bars, threading tools.  Center rest. etc. A properly equipped lathe at $2K easily beats a lathe with no accessories at less than $1K.
> 
> ...



Randy:
  Thanks for all the informatio0n.  We are going to take a few inspection tools with us, including an inspection mirror, vernier, micrometer, D.I. etc.                                                                                               I will let you know what we find. 
  Thank you,
steve


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## RandyWilson (May 28, 2017)

Just keep in mind there is no such thing as perfect, only good enough. The question won't be if there is wear, there will be. The real question is if there is enough wear to seriously impede your desired accuracy. The restoration book gives one very quick and easy tip on the ways. Tighten the carriage stop bolt by hand.  Do this in many places along the carriage travel. If the bolt tightens to effectively the same point each time, the ways are good enough.

 My ways had been professionally reground.  There is a fair bit of backlash in the cross feed. I could spend hours and hours, and $100 for fresh brass nuts, trying to get the slop out. Or I can mount a $200 Chinese DRO and not worry about it. Plan B always wins.


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## ironhorse18 (Jun 2, 2017)

RandyWilson said:


> Just keep in mind there is no such thing as perfect, only good enough. The question won't be if there is wear, there will be. The real question is if there is enough wear to seriously impede your desired accuracy. The restoration book gives one very quick and easy tip on the ways. Tighten the carriage stop bolt by hand.  Do this in many places along the carriage travel. If the bolt tightens to effectively the same point each time, the ways are good enough.
> 
> My ways had been professionally reground.  There is a fair bit of backlash in the cross feed. I could spend hours and hours, and $100 for fresh brass nuts, trying to get the slop out. Or I can mount a $200 Chinese DRO and not worry about it. Plan B always wins.




Randy:
  Finally got the lathe home.  We had to drive through storms, rain and hail, but finally made it.    There are a couple of apparent problems that I noticed. Number one, the "clamping part, lower part" of the carriage lock is missing.  I'm pretty sure I could make one of these.  I am looking for a picture / drawing of one so I can see how the original one was fabricated.  There are no mounting bolts for either the follow rest or the steady rest.  It looks like there must be a shoulder  and possibly a short bevel on the original bolt that would mate up with the threaded hole in the carriage.  The threaded is smaller than I expected in the carriage mounting holes..  Last but not least:  The device that closes and locks the Steady Rest closed isn't there!!  I need a picture or drawing of that also.  I've figured out a way to "rig" something up that would work, but I would rather see how the original was made.
I did get about 4 extra gears with the machine.  I haven't even got to unload it yet, still on the trailer.  I hope the get  the front end loader back by Monday then tackle it at that point in time.   
As an added note 3 chucks came with it.  A 3 jaw scroll chuck, a 3 jaw "Buck" type chuck, and a 4 jaw chuck.  They are all pretty rusty but I'll take care of that soon


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## RandyWilson (Jun 2, 2017)

Congrats!  Pictures required.


There is an awful lot of information, manufacturers publications and such, on vintagemachinery.org. It's well worth a wander through. For this specific case, they have the parts manual.

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=3463


I have a telescoping center rest. I'll dig it out and get some pictures this weekend.


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## woodchucker (Jun 2, 2017)

ironhorse18 said:


> Randy:
> Finally got the lathe home.  We had to drive through storms, rain and hail, but finally made it.    There are a couple of apparent problems that I noticed. Number one, the "clamping part, lower part" of the carriage lock is missing.  I'm pretty sure I could make one of these.  I am looking for a picture / drawing of one so I can see how the original one was fabricated.  There are no mounting bolts for either the follow rest or the steady rest.  It looks like there must be a shoulder  and possibly a short bevel on the original bolt that would mate up with the threaded hole in the carriage.  The threaded is smaller than I expected in the carriage mounting holes..  Last but not least:  The device that closes and locks the Steady Rest closed isn't there!!  I need a picture or drawing of that also.  I've figured out a way to "rig" something up that would work, but I would rather see how the original was made.
> I did get about 4 extra gears with the machine.  I haven't even got to unload it yet, still on the trailer.  I hope the get  the front end loader back by Monday then tackle it at that point in time.
> As an added note 3 chucks came with it.  A 3 jaw scroll chuck, a 3 jaw "Buck" type chuck, and a 4 jaw chuck.  They are all pretty rusty but I'll take care of that soon


Pictures ? Good luck with your new lathe.  you may want the rebuild kit that Steve Wells sells on ebay. Replace the wicks and get to know the machine in the process.


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## ironhorse18 (Jun 3, 2017)

RandyWilson said:


> Congrats!  Pictures required.
> 
> 
> There is an awful lot of information, manufacturers publications and such, on vintagemachinery.org. It's well worth a wander through. For this specific case, they have the parts manual.
> ...



Perfect!  We have our granddaughter this weekend so I'll go out to the shop Monday and count gear teeth.


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## ironhorse18 (Jun 3, 2017)

woochucker said:


> Pictures ? Good luck with your new lathe.  you may want the rebuild kit that Steve Wells sells on ebay. Replace the wicks and get to know the machine in the process.



I'll check that out later today.  Thanks for the information, I'm sure the machine needs a little TLC.


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## ironhorse18 (Jun 6, 2017)

RandyWilson said:


> Congrats!  Pictures required.
> 
> 
> There is an awful lot of information, manufacturers publications and such, on vintagemachinery.org. It's well worth a wander through. For this specific case, they have the parts manual.
> ...



Well, I started cleaning up the lathe yesterday.  This machine must of been idle for some time.   The grease, gunk and grime is "dried" and "bonded" to the machine.  I have been using WD, and a few other things, including  non-flammable brake cleaner to cut the grease.  Plus lots of oil, it was pretty dry.  Paint is chipped almost every where.
It's not a CL 185c as advertised.  Lots of cleaning revealed it is a CL 175C, with a 6' bed.  I checked the extra gears, there isn't a 127 included. 
I'm not real good with the computer, but I am going to try to get some pictures posted.


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## ironhorse18 (Jun 6, 2017)

did


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## RandyWilson (Jun 6, 2017)

CL175 should be a 6 speed 13" lathe. There will be only three  steps on the flat belt pulley rather than four of a CL145.


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