# Steel hardening questions



## D1005 (Oct 20, 2018)

Ok, I've searched this forum, as well as the internet, and read until I have a headache, but am so unclear on many things.     Seeking comments, but especially corrections as the internet has a wealth of information, it's often incorrect information.

First, I have junkyard steel, it's what I can afford and thus have.

2nd,  I'm making narrowish shoes to go on shanks for rippers ahead of a blade for the driveway.    3/4" thick, 1 3/4" high, 4" or so long.   Cutting a 45° angle to make the toe.  The 45° angle will be facing the dirt, thus be getting the wear.

The steel is pretty easy to work, so it will also probably wear fairly quickly, and I'm thinking it might be a good idea to attempt to harden the face of the steel attacking the dirt.

I've watched videos of spark tests, and frankly, all the sparks look the same to these old, tired, eyes.

From what I've read, heat it up red hot with the torch, and dunk it in used motor oil or water.   That's what I have, that's what's cheap, those are my choices.

Depending on the unknown carbon content, it might get hard, it might not.   So it'll either wear longer, or not, either way I'm not out much, fun experiment.

Used motor oil or water?   I'm probably mistaken, but there is carbon in the oil  which might aid the hardening process in low carbon steel, but water cools faster so the carbon that is available in the steel hardens it better?

From the videos I watched, oil usually, but not always, flashes flame when the metal first goes in, but if quickly dunked, soon goes out.   A big enough, steel container to completely drop the foot and shank into, with a flat top so it can be covered in case of fire could prove to be a challenge, but if not found, could rule out the oil choice.   I'm a bit of a pyromaniac, but have no interest in burning down the neighborhood.

Heat the foot starting at the top of the angle, and work down to the point so the red hot doesn't go real deep, and stays fairly uniform, thus harden only the surface, leaving the rest not as hard, thus not as brittle and prone to snapping?   Annealing seems like a wasted process in this application as it's such a  thick piece and it won't be red hot all the way through, and be all fully hardened.

Dang, that got long, sorry, but tried to give all pertinent information.

Thanks in advance, Dale


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## Canus (Oct 20, 2018)

Since you have no idea as to the alloy of the junkyard steel you are probably looking at an exercise in futility.  If you have access to a stick welder you would probably be better off to get some hard face rods and build up the shanks of the rippers.


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## T Bredehoft (Oct 20, 2018)

Hard face rods, look for stellite. I used it with TIG, don't know about stick welding, but it was really something. We had to use a 'green wheel'     to grind it, anything else became worn away.  Lay a 3/16 layer of stelling on your wear surfaces and forget hardening.


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## RJSakowski (Oct 20, 2018)

The best way to become familiar with spark testing is to get some steels of various carbon content and spark them.  An old file would be a good candidate for high carbon (~1.4%).  Grade 8 bolts are usually a medium carbon (~ .7%).  Grade 2 bolts and common nails are fairly low carbon (~.2%).
Spark test them on a medium grit grinding wheel.  Angle grinders don't work as well in my experience.  Compare the spark stream of each sample.  Low carbon steel has fairly long yellow streamers with modest branching at the ends.  As the carbon content increases, the streamers get shorter with more of a starburst effect.  High carbon steel will have multiple branching.  

When testing an unknown steel compare it to your known samples.  You should be able to get a fairly good indication of the carbon content.

Alloy steels are a different matter.  Alloying materials affect the spark pattern differently.  M2 HHS steel has a darker orange streamer with no branching.  O1 tool steel is similar.  18-8 stainless has very little sparking.


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## Mitch Alsup (Oct 20, 2018)

D1005 said:


> Used motor oil or water?   I'm probably mistaken, but there is carbon in the oil  which might aid the hardening process in low carbon steel, but water cools faster so the carbon that is available in the steel hardens it better?



Carbon diffuses into steel at high temperatures.
Red hot steel dipped into motor oil is neither hot enough nor hot long enough for any significant diffusion to take place.
At best you will get a few molecular layers carbonized.

If you want to up the carbon content in the steel, you liberally coat the steel in carbon (paste), and then coat the carbon in a ceramic (clay) before heating to yellow (?white?) hot temperatures and letting the diffusion take place for at least an hour.


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## magicniner (Oct 20, 2018)

If you stated your requirement you would be helping people to help you, Silver steel and 01 Tool steel are available at reasonable prices. 

If you need hardened parts find or buy the right material for your job. 
Unless of course your time and your work is worth nothing?


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## BtoVin83 (Oct 20, 2018)

There's a couple of ways to do this. First you don't want to heat and quench the whole ripper shank as this makes it brittle, if you temper it then the wear surface is not as hard as you would like. Second, flame harden the wear portion only by heating and  quenching. This makes the wear portion hard but the shank is not brittle. Last get some tungsten rod, this is a steel tube with tungsten powder in it. Apply it by oxy acetylene torch or adding to the puddle using an arc welder. Stellite is like bubble gum compared to tungsten.


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## magicniner (Oct 20, 2018)

If you have worn components use hard facing rods to build them up, I used to do this to repair farm equipment using an MMA setup.


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## RJSakowski (Oct 20, 2018)

You might try some of the farm supply stores.  They sell replacement shoes, teeth, etc. for cultivators and the like.  These are hardened steel and used for a purpose similar to what you want to do.


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## GL (Oct 20, 2018)

From my experience, and maybe I should do more, but driveway maintenance is a not something that happens that often - like once every couple of years.  Based on that, and your situation may be different, about anything would work. As you said, either it will wear away, or it won't. Hard surface rod is what they rebuild bucket teeth with.  Even S70 wire in a MIG welder will be harder than mild steel - and maybe you already have that in your arsenal.  The farm supply store is a good thought, replacement parts are pretty cheap for these kinds of wear items.  My box blade only has 4 or 5 rippers. Depends on how hard you want to play.


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## BtoVin83 (Oct 20, 2018)

In my opinion you don't want to be ripping up a driveway, you want it packed sown and ripping will work it deep. When it rains it becomes a quagmire. What I have used is a section of chain link fence, the heavier the better and weight it down with tires, cinder blocks old steam trains or what have you. Drag that behind the tractor and it cuts and fills pretty well.


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## Sandia (Oct 20, 2018)

The practical application is hard surfacing the shanks, very common in agriculture arena as well as oil patch.  If you don't weld, a local welding shop would probably do it for a reasonable fee.


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## benmychree (Oct 20, 2018)

Hardface is definitely the way to go.  Besides that, hardening in used motor oil is about the worst quench medium anyone could use for an oil hardening steel, as it has lots of dilution elements in it, which gives it a quite low flash point; real quench oils have a high flash point and are light bodied for fast heat transfer; you will not get consistent results with junk oil.  Commercial heat treaters only use their quench oils for relatively short periods of time due to the changing thermal conductivity over a short period of time.


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## tweinke (Oct 20, 2018)

This may be off base but I looked at purchasing a DR grader for my driveway at one time. They have a row of ripper teeth to loosen the gravel. Funny thing is they sure looked like brazed carbide lathe tools welded to a bar. Like this


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## Downunder Bob (Oct 21, 2018)

You don't mention if you have welding ability, but if you do get a packet of hard facing rods and build up the wear surfaces, you can repair them many times over this way. you can even braze carbide pieces on if the dirt you're in is really hard, but I'd try the hard facing first it really is good widely used by the earth moving and mining industries.


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## psychodelicdan (Oct 21, 2018)

I have to agree with going to your farm store and looking at there consumables for dirt work. Bucket teeth,cutting edges ect. Find something that you can easily replace. Either bolt on or weld on. Unless your driveway is a mile long don't give edge hardness a thought. Any steel you put on it will hold up just fine.
If your going into business buy real shanks and teeth.time is money kind if a thing. If you just want to play, grab what you got. Heat it up to white hot and slosh it in ANY old oil or water. See what happens.
Have fun.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Downunder Bob (Oct 21, 2018)

If the steel you've got is low carbon and therefore not hardenable, you could get it to hardenable state in a couple of different ways. 1. If you have or  can set up a forge using coke or even charcoal, set the part in and heat up to red heat and hold for awhile then quench in water. It will pick up carbon from the fire. repeat until required hardness.

2. Alternatively if you oxy acetylene gear set up with a carburising flame, a bit low on oxygen, heat and quench as above.

I have hardened mild steel by putting it in the firebox of enclosed wood burning heating stove leave it in the coals for a few days then take it out when red hot and quench it, will harden quite nicely.


I find a good source of cheap hardenable steel is old car/truck axles, ask your local mechanic. these can be machined, just. or annealed then machined and rehardened, to be as hard as you like, The fact that they are free makes them ideal for experimenting. I use them for making boring bars. and other stuff.


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## psychodelicdan (Oct 21, 2018)

I like the boring bar idea.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## JPigg55 (Oct 21, 2018)

If I'm not misunderstanding your question, but if you're wanting to harden the face of shoes for depth control just weld some beads down the length using high hardness welding rods.
My father was the road commissioner for the township some years back and did the same thing for the Vee plow shoes for the road grader.
The gravel roads would just eat away the shoes in no time so he just ran a bunch of beads down the length using 7018 welding rod, if memory serves. Worked great.


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## D1005 (Oct 21, 2018)

WOW!   Thanks for all the replies, which I'll try to reply to in mass.

I do have, and can stick weld.  Sorta, the welds often look awful, but usually hold.   I kinda like this option of building back the shoes once worn.   Or just whack them off and weld on new.  I have a fair amount of that particular stock.  See how much is left after all the parts are cut.   But if I could invest a little extra work now, and avoid the work later of replacing the shoes, all the better.

Using the acy/oxy torch to carburise  (?) the shoe, though I'd have to break out the book on to do it, also sounds interesting.

Consumable replacements are darned expensive on my budget, so I'll have to use what I can build cheap.   They also require building a shank capable of accepting them, which I don't have any junk yard material on hand to do, so more investment required.

Grading my driveway with just a blade, soon has all the larger stone working to the top, while the fines settle out.   This doesn't make for a good pack.   When I read about using rippers to mix the gravel up some, I thought, heck yeah, that sounds reasonable.

No, not a long driveway, nor needs graded a lot, actually mostly graded for weed control, which also requires stirring up the gravel a bit, so it might very well take forever to wear off even a soft shoe.   It's just when I get into a project, I like to explore all options and possibilities of improving the final product, so long as it's on the cheap cheap.

Ovens, forges, etc., don't have, and frankly too much investment for this project.    Wood stoves, don't take offense, but I wish the things were banned, I'm running 2 air purifiers in my house to keep the stench down from the neighbors smoke, allowing me to breath without a sore throat all winter.  What he's "saving" on heating costs, I'm shelling out in additional health care.   Somehow that doesn't seem right to me.

Just hardening the face, not the entire shoe/shank would seem to be the best.   Want wear resistance, not breakage of the part.   So a torch would suffice.  Also, wouldn't the heat from welding on a shoe with a hardened face,  diminish the hardness on it's face?   I suspect that's why commercial shoes, at least for rippers, are crimped on, not welded.   These aren't large items, heat would get to the hardened surface rather quickly.   In my scheme, I'd heat treat after the shoe faces were welded on.

Thanks again for all the replies, it's given me plenty to think about.


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## Downunder Bob (Oct 22, 2018)

Thanks for the feedback. given what you're trying to make and the resources you have, i would make them out of steel and hard face them. you will get a low cost easy to make item that will last along time and is easy to repair. In fact if you want to experiment with shapes and sizes just make them out of steel test them and then hard face the best ones. Also you might want to make them out of a tough steel. Old car/truck springs work well, also car drive axles.


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## MozamPete (Oct 22, 2018)

You could also try experimenting with a Superquench solution (google "superquench" for some formula).  I haven't tried in but is supposedly allows mild steel to be hardend up a bit by cooling it even quicker than water will.  The formula uses pretty readily available component so not too much of an investment to give it a try.


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## D1005 (Oct 22, 2018)

Downunder Bob said:


> Thanks for the feedback. given what you're trying to make and the resources you have, i would make them out of steel and hard face them. you will get a low cost easy to make item that will last along time and is easy to repair. In fact if you want to experiment with shapes and sizes just make them out of steel test them and then hard face the best ones. Also you might want to make them out of a tough steel. Old car/truck springs work well, also car drive axles.



While other steel has been mentioned above, I just had a "Well duh" moment.   I recently tossed some leaf springs off an old golf cart that was on the property when we bought the place 10 years ago, into the headed for the scrap yard pile.    I've never worked with spring steel, so  now I have a whole new load of questions about that.

Cutting it.    Will a metal cutting bandsaw cut the stuff ok?    Or do I need to attack it with the angle grinder?

Golf cart leaf springs are kinda "springy", is that from their smaller size, or a different composition?   Would that make them tougher or less than car or truck springs?    Either way, no doubt a lot harder than the current steel in question.   Is harder even the proper term?   Higher carbon content be more precise?  Something else?

Does the heat from welding it affect it's hardness any? 

Would it need any heat treating after the welding?

I'm thinking build the shoes pretty much as planned, but weld a piece of leaf to the face of the shoe attacking the gravel.

Just goes to show, being old has given me lots of experience, but not in everything.   LOL


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## Downunder Bob (Oct 22, 2018)

The advantages of using old springs are. 1 they are usually available free. 2. spring steel is usually very good quality. 

4 Depending on the heat treatment you can make it really very hard and can be honed to a fine edge, as in a knife.

Or you can draw the temper a little more and end up with it being very tough, so it won't break, that will make excellent ripper blades, you can still hardface them for extra wear ability. that is the way I would go.

You should be able to cut spring steel with HSS blades but you could also anneal it before working on it and then  re harden it after hardening draw the temper so you can just file it.


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## ericc (Oct 22, 2018)

tweinke said:


> This may be off base but I looked at purchasing a DR grader for my driveway at one time. They have a row of ripper teeth to loosen the gravel. Funny thing is they sure looked like brazed carbide lathe tools welded to a bar. Like this
> 
> View attachment 278048


OK, now I know what I found in the dirt.  The shank sparked as tool steel, similar to A2, and the wear insert on the end sparked as carbide.  But, it didn't look like a lathe tool at all.  Maybe if I can find it in the junk box, it can be repurposed into some kind of form tool.


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## D1005 (Oct 22, 2018)

Bob,

Dug the leaf springs out of the toss 'em barrel, looks like a perfect size for my application.   

Been working on my drawings for some time today, after measuring all the bits and pieces of stuff I have laying around, I think I can build at least 90%, hopefully all of it,  from stock on hand.  YEE HA!   Just need a couple of hydraulic hoses and fittings.   Made a lot of changes to make it work, but one does what one's gotta to do.

While my setup will differ from commercial units, the rippers are looking good.    Cut the angled feet from the same stock the shanks are, weld them to the bottom of the shanks, then weld the spring steel to the face of feet attacking the gravel.   Essentially putting shoes on the feet.   Of course this will totally heat them up as they are only 7/32" thick.   So I reckon some sort of surface hardening may be in order.  Should last essentially forever at least.

Planning stages almost complete now, now to not lose all my notes until building begins.    I can remember how to figure dairy cattle rations from  1980 better than I can remember what I read about heat treatment of steel yesterday.   Winter's coming, no heat in the shop, and circulation to the hands suck, so not sure I'll be able to finish this year as I'm currently in the finishing stages of another project.

Thanks for everyone's help.    Of course I'll not remember who said what, or even what you said, but I have notes.   I'll also have to go back and read the research again.     Sucks to get old, and I'm not that damn old!

Dale


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## D1005 (Oct 22, 2018)

magicniner said:


> If you stated your requirement you would be helping people to help you, Silver steel and 01 Tool steel are available at reasonable prices.
> 
> If you need hardened parts find or buy the right material for your job.
> Unless of course your time and your work is worth nothing?



Time is free, thus worth nothing.


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## D1005 (Oct 23, 2018)

While painting another project, I set up the bandsaw to cut the first foot.   Now you can see what I was actually talking about.  

Spring steel will be welded to the cut surface for the wear edge.  Thanks again for all your inputs.


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## Downunder Bob (Oct 24, 2018)

D1005 said:


> Bob,
> 
> Dug the leaf springs out of the toss 'em barrel, looks like a perfect size for my application.
> 
> ...


Don't know how you guys survive in that brass monkey weather without heat. I never let my shop go below 16c around 60f and we never see ice or snow here.
"Sucks to get old, and I'm not that damn old!"  Sure does, I'm 74 nearly 75, but as long as I can keep warm I'm ok, just a bit slow and can't lift anything. I can still remember most, about 90%, of what I've learned. It just takes a while to bring it to the surface.


D1005 said:


> While painting another project, I set up the bandsaw to cut the first foot.   Now you can see what I was actually talking about.
> 
> Spring steel will be welded to the cut surface for the wear edge.  Thanks again for all your inputs.




That looks fairly solid, should do a good job of ripping your driveway. make the leading edge of springsteel and when that wears build it up with a hard face electrode, there are quite a few types available, some are for impact others for metal to metal wear, and some for earth moving equip. that's the one you want, but your local welding supply guy should be able to advise the best for the job.


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## D1005 (Oct 24, 2018)

Personally, I survive by not going outside in winter, nor the heat of summer.   Every year the comfort zone gets narrower.   4 months of "hibernating" in winter, 1-2 months in summer.

You have me by a few years with age, 61 here, but I guess I just led too fun of a life, as several parts have broken down, worn out, and I'm on disability with a very limited income.   Makes my "work" days in the shop an hour long on average.   Any more than that, and it's 2-3 days recovery time.  Guess you might say I'm not old, just severly worn.

The bar stock is 3/4x1 3/4" (I really wish the US would convert to metric and join the rest of the world, it's so much easier, but fractions are how stuff comes, so it's fractions I have to contend with)   Should be more than sturdy enough.   I'm no engineer, just overbuild to where I know it just HAS to be strong enough.

Cover the front of the foot with the spring steel.   I'm not planning on more than 2" deep, so all wear would be on the spring steel.     When grading with just a blade, the larger, mostly buried, aggregate tends to "pop" out, leaving the surface all larger stone, no fines for binding.   2" should be ample to keep it mixed.   They'll be adjustable of course so depth can be experimented with, and go no deeper than required.

While I buy new stock on occasion, the vast majority of what I use is scrap yard metal, or 1/2 price drops from the only shop I've found that still provides actual customer service to the average joe.    The only place that will cut for hauling for free,  if  you buy a full stick.   That doesn't happen very often for me, but it's always a consideration.    When designing a project, try to make it all from the same thing.   Yeah, right.


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## D1005 (Oct 24, 2018)

Unfortunately, second picture was focused on booklet, not the foot, and the others behind it makes it appear longer than it is.   That short piece made 4 feet with just a smidgen left over for shank positioning, should work!   Have another 9' foot piece to make shanks, and possibly more rippers as 4 places them 16" apart, and most commercial scarifiers are in the 12" spacing neighborhood.


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## Downunder Bob (Oct 25, 2018)

Thankfully my driveway is fully paved and I don't have to grade it. Some years ago we had a country property, 100 Acres, sold in 2004, and I used to grade the tracks every year, plus make a few new ones We only had a small tractor, but we did have a proper, although light weight, grader blade on the back, and I made some ripper blades for that, just used whatever cheap or free steel that I could scrounge, I used to just hard face them never had a problem as they didn't do a lot of work, I also hard faced the edges of the grader blade and the slasher blades when needed. Not very often 5 or 10 years depended on use.


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## Downunder Bob (Oct 25, 2018)

D1005 said:


> Unfortunately, second picture was focused on booklet, not the foot, and the others behind it makes it appear longer than it is.   That short piece made 4 feet with just a smidgen left over for shank positioning, should work!   Have another 9' foot piece to make shanks, and possibly more rippers as 4 places them 16" apart, and most commercial scarifiers are in the 12" spacing neighborhood.



Starting to look good, should do what you want. What sort of tractor you got..


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## D1005 (Oct 25, 2018)

Bob,

A paved driveway, that would be nice. 

The project I'm just finishing now is a belly mount grader blade.   I've used the one on my old Wheel Horse for more years than I can count, and it grades far better than any other blade I've tried, front or back.    Other than the aggregate sorting a I've mentioned.    Which is worse at this place as I had road gravel hauled in to make a proper driveway, and it has more of the larger aggregate than I had at my first place for 24 years, or the farm for 20 years before that.

Because of health/mobility problems, getting on and off the old garden tractor is hard to do, I need something overhead to pull myself up to get on and off.   I bought a Kubota BX2670 (25hp) a few years back for mowing and blowing snow, with a flat operator platform which is much easier for me use.   Time to upgrade!  Now while virtually every manufacturer 40 years ago made grader blade attachments, they no longer do, so I'm building my own.    70" wide rather than the Wheel Horse's 42".    Hydraulic power angle as well.  No more getting on and off to adjust the angle to build proper crowns.

A little addition here, the scarifier these shanks/shoes/feet will be front  mounted, with it's own independent hydraulic raise/lower.   So I can scarify or not, depending on the exact needs at that particular spot.

Which brings me up to more questions.   Now remember, I'm just an old, self taught, farm boy when it comes to metal work.   Cut it however possible, stick weld it together.   That's it.    That's the sum total of my tools beyond the oxy/acetylene torch (which I've dabbled at with welding, but have never had any real success with, so I've always revert back to the stick).   I am NOT a machinist, don't claim to be.   I don't know metallurgy, certainly don't claim that.  But I like to dabble, and ask questions, and get stumped with so many terms common to those of  you in the know.

How the heck does one  hardface the edge of a blade?   Or are you just talking the previously mentioned type of welding rods, and just lay  a bead on it?    I wish I could lay a decent bead!!!    I have "sorta" good luck with 6013 electrodes, tried 6011 and did terrible.   Clean and dirty steel alike.    "Hardfacing" electrodes, or whatever the heck the proper term is, would be a real unknown to me and whether I could even lay a good bead or not.

The steel I used for the blade, you got it, junkyard steel of an unknown quality, a piece of 8 3/4" pipe I cut a section out of.   When it wears out, which could be quickly, or not, who knows, I have a couple of options.   Weld/bolt a chunk of whatever I can find cheap, on to replace what wears off or, cut out a complete new blade from the pipe.    There is plenty left.

Or hardface to last, which with zero education on steel work under my belt, I'm not sure what we're talking about.   Again.

Sorry, I get long sometimes.

Dale


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## Downunder Bob (Oct 27, 2018)

Laying a bead, hardfacing or just plain steel is really only a matter of practice, set your machine up as recommended on the welding rod packet and give it a go. If it doesn't work experiment with machine settings up or down but not more than 20%. If it's still no good talk to the local welding supplies guys, they are usually always willing to help. Always with arc welding it's important to store the rods correctly sealed up and in a warm dry place, not always easy in your climate, especially if you don't have continuous heat in your shop.

When you buy new rods keep in their sealed packet until you need them. If your shop is cold and damp keep them in the house, or you could make a rod storage cabinet. get an old metal box that is a suitable size for the rods you want to store, also get a used coffee can big enough to fit a regular incandescent light globe, fix a light globe holder into the base of the can, and drill a series of holes around the base, size is not important 1/2" to 3/4" is fine, drill some corresponding holes in the base of the metal box and attach the can to the underside of the box so the holes line up, now mount it on the wall, Plug it in and leave it on 24/7 you could also wire in a basic thermostat to hold the inside of your storage box between 20c 68f. and 30c 86f. If you winter are really cold it may help to insulate the box. That will keep your rods warm and dry so they will work perfectly next time you need them. 

I've always found hardfacing rods relatively easy to use, especially if you set the job up so it's straight forward downhand welding. Talk to your local welding supplies see if they run a course. and get their advice on what rods to use for your application.

I'd tend to stick with your 6013 rods for general structural welding as in building your tynes, and just use the hard facing rods on the wearing surfaces, and they will become obvious with use. When welding the foot of your tyne to the leg don't forget to deep V the edges where the wild will be, and give it plenty of amps up to 20% more than the guide. this join will need good penetration as it is a high stress join. waiting to see the results.


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## D1005 (Oct 27, 2018)

Downunder Bob,  THANKS!    You've been very helpful and patient with my questions, I really appreciate it.   For once, I'm left without more questions, not sure if that's good or bad.    The majority of my rods are kept in closed, sealed, plastic electrode storage containers, but don't use quite as many precautions as you mentioned.   Bottom line, they seem to work the same whether freshly bought, or if they have been stored a while.   It's kind of a balancing act between buying big packages which are way cheaper per rod, and buying smaller packages so they get used up before getting too old.

I've read so often, "expand your abilities", "expand your horizons", "try new", "improve yourself", etc., and I have with varying degrees of success, and much failure.   If I remember right, 6011 was all we had on the farm, but somewhere along the line switched to 6013, then got the big idea of comparing them head to head.   Yeah, I'm sticking with 6013.   Anyway, I was about ready to stick with what I know, but heat treating and/or hard facing just might be worth a shot as they sound entirely doable, with the instructions attained here.

Thanks again.


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## magicniner (Oct 27, 2018)

D1005 said:


> Time is free, thus worth nothing.



That's where you're making your mistake


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## D1005 (Oct 27, 2018)

magicniner said:


> That's where you're making your mistake



If I was trying to make a living, I'd agree.   What I'm doing is trying to fill free time,  get some exercise.   So the time may not be "free" it's actually paying me!


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## Downunder Bob (Oct 27, 2018)

And always remember "He who dares wins".


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## D1005 (Dec 28, 2018)

With the oncoming cold weather, I've been shut down most days, but did manage to finish welding the shanks today.   Now remember guys, I'm a chicken scratch welder.   My welds are never pretty, but they usually hold.  For some reason, I can't make the same thing twice with identical dimensions, but close enough for me.

I'm thinking 5 shanks, but cutting a 45, makes two 45's, so I made a spare while I was at it.


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## Downunder Bob (Dec 29, 2018)

Waiting to see the finished product, in action.


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## D1005 (Dec 29, 2018)

Downunder Bob, I'm afraid that's going to be a bit of a wait.   3-4 months until it starts to thaw here, although I'm thinking about braving the cold long enough to bolt it together.  Won't be on the tractor, as that's carrying the snowblower now, but I'll try to update when pertinent.


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## Downunder Bob (Dec 29, 2018)

That's ok I understand your seasons are back to front with ours, when it's ready will do.  we don't even get much snow here, a little bit up in the mountains, but none in the main cities. I've never even seen a snowblower in action, perhaps you could post a pic or two. I see you're in Michigan, I've been there but only in the summer.


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## tweinke (Dec 29, 2018)

Downunder Bob said:


> I've never even seen a snowblower in action, perhaps you could post a pic or two



I would bet if you would like some hands on experience a few guys here would be more than happy to help you out!


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## Downunder Bob (Dec 29, 2018)

tweinke said:


> I would bet if you would like some hands on experience a few guys here would be more than happy to help you out!


Perhaps the next time in USA in the winter maybe in a year or two.


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## D1005 (May 17, 2019)

Spring finally sprung.

Finished up the scarifier, and it does what I wanted it to.   Right now it's set to 3/4" depth which will probably be about right once everything is scattered evenly and mixed together.    Used leaf spring from old golf cart that was on the property when we bought.   No other hardening, just some paint.   I'm as bad at painting as I am welding, but it's good enough for me.


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## Winegrower (May 17, 2019)

Regarding hardening steel, i’m with psychodelicdan...I recall from a strength of materials class it’s the RATE of cooling that determines the final hardness...faster is harder, and water quenches faster than oil.    Heat it as hot as you can get it, throw in a tub of water.    If you want it as soft as possible, throw it in your fireplace and get it out of the ashes in the AM.


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## Latinrascalrg1 (May 17, 2019)

D1005 said:


> Time is free, thus worth nothing.


On the contrary my friend....Time is most definitely NOT Free as you "pay" for it literally with your Life!  Ergo it could be argued that TIME is the one single aspect/resource in EVERY situation that is guaranteed to be Limited and will surely run out of at somepoint which in my eyes makes it Incredibly valuable, in fact, Priceless!


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## brino (May 17, 2019)

D1005 said:


> Finished up the scarifier, and it does what I wanted it to.......... I'm as bad at painting as I am welding, but it's good enough for me.



Dale,
If it works like you need then that's all that matters.
By the way, your results look great!
-brino


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## markba633csi (May 17, 2019)

That looks right handsome and should last a while too-just don't hit any big rocks under the surface
Mark


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## D1005 (May 23, 2019)

Latinrascalrg1 said:


> On the contrary my friend....Time is most definitely NOT Free as you "pay" for it literally with your Life!  Ergo it could be argued that TIME is the one single aspect/resource in EVERY situation that is guaranteed to be Limited and will surely run out of at somepoint which in my eyes makes it Incredibly valuable, in fact, Priceless!



Roof to live under, food, vehicles, fuel, taxes, the list goes on, all cost.  I pay for those, every month, every day.   If I didn't pay, they would end.     The sun has come up over 22,500 times since I was born, and not once did I have to pay anything for it to happen.    When it quits rising for me, it will for someone else, who won't have to pay to for it rise either.    Sounds free to me.   

Two different ways of looking at it, but when you're poor, time is free, everything else is always in doubt.


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## D1005 (May 23, 2019)

markba633csi said:


> That looks right handsome and should last a while too-just don't hit any big rocks under the surface
> Mark





brino said:


> Dale,
> If it works like you need then that's all that matters.
> By the way, your results look great!
> -brino



Thanks.   

Not too many large stone on top of this sand hill, not to mention over the last 10 years I've worked on the driveway, building it up, improving it, it's pretty much all nice gravel.  I did try a thin layer of stone on top to see if I could keep it "cleaner".    It's going to take a lot longer to get it spread out in a nice, even, top layer than I thought, but then, most projects take far longer than I think they will.


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## magicniner (May 23, 2019)

D1005 said:


> Bottom line, they seem to work the same whether freshly bought, or if they have been stored a while.   It's kind of a balancing act between buying big packages which are way cheaper per rod, and buying smaller packages so they get used up before getting too old.



Get a pack of rods you think are old and stick the rods on a metal tray in a mid to high heat household oven for an hour, then try one. 
Transfer them to an airtight container before they're fully cooled.


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## D1005 (May 23, 2019)

magicniner said:


> Get a pack of rods you think are old and stick the rods on a metal tray in a mid to high heat household oven for an hour, then try one.
> Transfer them to an airtight container before they're fully cooled.



I have some rods out there I inherited which I know are very old.   This sounds like  a great plan to execute even if I don't use them right away.    IE, do something before the coating falls off.

Thanks for the tip.


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## Downunder Bob (May 23, 2019)

Looks Like a pretty neat piece of gear, I'm sure you'll get a long and useful life out of it.


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## john.k (May 24, 2019)

You need to be aware if you overload the trannys of mowers,lawn tractors,yard tractors, you will quickly bust the sintered gears.......The scarifier shown would be ok in soft dirt ,but to dig ,say,old grassed surface to 1",would definitely overload a yard machine......a small proper tractor would be ok...You also allow for shock load when you hit something solid ,and the machine stops dead....There is no need to harden anything for short term usage with low power.


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