# Wire Welder....OT?



## jimisbell (May 24, 2014)

I dont know if this is posted in the right place or not, but I couldnt find another subject line that even came close.

I have a 90 amp HF flux wire welder and I am wondering if I could put brass wire in it and braze with it?


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## Terrywerm (May 24, 2014)

jimisbell said:


> I dont know if this is posted in the right place or not, but I couldnt find another subject line that even came close.
> 
> I have a 90 amp HF flux wire welder and I am wondering if I could put brass wire in it and braze with it?



Jim, I moved your thread to the welding and casting forum, a more appropriate place for it. 

As for your question, I am not the most proficient welder in the world, but I have not heard of trying to braze this way. I have my doubts that it would work very well, but maybe somebody else can chime in with more info.


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## Tony Wells (May 24, 2014)

It would not be brazing. I have welded with brass based rods, but since the arc temp is high enough to melt into the steel or cast you want to join, it would not be the same as brazing, and you would still need a flux of some sort. 

Unless someone makes a flux cored wire made for that, I don't think you would succeed.....but many things have been discovered by trying the impossible.


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## CluelessNewB (May 24, 2014)

I'm absolutely no expert and I have never done it but I do know there is silicon bronze wire available for MIG.  I believe it is typically used with 100% Argon or 25% Helium 75% Argon Mix.  I don't know of any flux core version.   

Now you know as much as I do, well probably more.


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## DMS (May 24, 2014)

Don't try to do it with brass. Brass has zinc, and the temps will boil off the zinc, which is not good stuff to breath (inhalation can cause something called "metal fume fever"). For brazing, bronze is usually used because it contains tin instead of zinc.


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## jimisbell (May 25, 2014)

Is there bronze wire for this application??


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## Ozwelder (May 25, 2014)

As a veteran of the welding industry ,I can advise you that your machine is far too small in amperage to handle the requirements of this wire,let alone fact that it requires gas shield.
Add that to the fact the  cost of the spool of wire is really expensive makes the whole deal way less than cost efficient.

Ozwelder


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## DMS (May 25, 2014)

If you can describe what you are trying to do, there may be another path forward. I'm guessing you are trying to join something other than steel?


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## tertiaryjim (May 26, 2014)

I've tried to TIG with brass rod and the zinc makes a complete mess of it.
Haven't tried bronze.
Heat when welding is so localized and the rod would likely melt before the joint was hot enough so i doubt it would work at all for brazing.
If you reverse the polarity you might gain a little but it still is unlikely.
OK I'm not much at welding anyway but wanted to share my learning experience.

Also learned that some steel castings have zinc to help the steel flow into small areas and corners better.
Those are a bear to work with.


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## Ozwelder (May 26, 2014)

Zinc and alloys containing zinc are a problem as many beginners are using an incorrect or unsuitable processes or technique. The key to the  problem is that the temperature  window for zinc  becoming molten and turning into a gas is a far narrower one than for other metals. Zinc is present in brazing alloys and when the zinc or its alloy is overheated it just fizzes off into a gas and is lost ruining the brazing process.

It is a problem for beginners to stay within this temperature window and too often they overheat the molten metal pool and flash off the zinc losing it as a gas.
It can be Oxy acetylene brazed and I understand can be tigged ( I have not tigged brazed myself ). The same principle will apply with tig and that's not to overheat the molten pool.Never melted the filler with the heat source -oxy or tig but heat the  parent metal area which in turn fuses the filler into it. Once a pool of molten braze is established  the wire filler is dipped  -melted - into it.

These processes are considered low temperature and are essentially the same as far as the manipulation of the filler rod is concerned.

The key point is that the majority of the inputted  heat is directed at the parent metal which in turn keeps the brazing pool molten.Once these principals are well  understood the brazing then becomes a simple  operation.

In my opinion most  DIY failures in brazing and welding  come from not understanding  the most suitable process to undertake the job with.

*Recapping*

1 Use a process that keeps the heat input low.
2 Use a technique to prevent overheating of the molten pool.

jimisbell
Tertiaryjim is correct. Tells us what you need to achieve and what sort of equipment that you may already have that might be appropriate.Too often just seeking the easy cheap way won't give you the results you want.

Oz


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## Rbeckett (May 26, 2014)

As a general rule of thumb it takes 1 amp per 1/1000 inch thickness so a 90 amp wire welder will safely weld a .090 part together with full penetration.  Just piling up a weld bead at a joint that is too big for your machine will cause huge headaches and rarely results in an adequate or safe weld.  So stick with .023 and .030 flux cored and keep your work small enough to work within the general guide lines.  I am a former welder and can tell you that a small machine like the one you have is OK for sheet metal or very small parts thicknesses, but will never be up to the task of any real structural work of any kind at all.  Sorry, but thems the breaks when you start buying welders...

Bob


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