# Repulsion-Induction motor



## 63redtudor (Dec 11, 2019)

I have re-assembled my grandfather's old South Bend lathe and now I am trying to wire up the motor. After a bit of reasurch, my dad and I figured out that it is an old Repulsion start - Induction run motor that can run on 110 or 220, single phase. Unfortunately, the wires were hacked off with only about 2" or so outside the case, though 2 of the wires are connected together (of the 4). I belive that the motor was set up to run on 220 (I don't remember, but my uncle does), so I want to stick with that. Right now I simply want to wire up the motor and see if it will run. There are a couple of motor shops here in the area and pretty much the response has been to the tune of: "that motor is to old - none of us know anything about it," "it has sleave bearings that have to be oiled," "we can get you a great price on a new motor...." In their defence, I only showed pictures as the motor is simply to heavy to lug around easily. While I'm not set on the fact that I HAVE to use this motor, I just simply want to see if it will run, and considering the fact that all, but one, of my motors has sleave bearings/needs to be oiled, that isn't a problem for me. 
So, the motor turns over freely by hand. I did pull off the 'back end' (non-output shaft end) to vaccuum out a little bit of gunk and to look at the wires and brushes (they look fine actually). I also checked the wires going through the case and did ohm out the wires to make sure I don't have any obvious shorts.

My question is how would I wire up the motor to test it? The 220v outlet I have avalible is the 4-prong style used for a dryer. I have 4 wires - red, green, white and black. I know that green is ground (I know this is temporary, but I still want to have the motor grounded!), white is neutral, but what do I do with the red and black. How do I get from the 3 wires (red, black and white) to the 2 on the motor? The motor leads have no differeing colors that I was able to see (I did check).

I also have a simple toggle switch (from ACE) that is intended for machinery motors rated at 100-240v and up to 30 amps. I don't intend to keep this switch for the motor, I simply want something a little easier/faster/safer (?) than yanking the plug out if I have smoke.

I suppose a few pictures are in order.
Front



Back



Side. Two wires are connected together, this shorts out the 110v coils and allows the 220v coils to operate. These pictures were before I cleaned a little and pulled the back of the motor off. The wires now actually have some insulation.



The tag.



Thanks for any help!


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## macardoso (Dec 11, 2019)

Start by labeling what you have hanging out. Then try to get a resistance measurement on each combination of wires. We are looking to identify the start and run circuits of the motor.


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## benmychree (Dec 11, 2019)

The two wires connected together should be just taped up, the other two connect to the 220 V current, for 110 V, the two taped together would instead be connected one of each to the two single wires that are there now; which to connect? I don't think there is any way of knowing beyond trial and error, just don't leave it connected for long, just give it a bump, if it starts, OK, if it just grunts, exchange the two wires that were previously connected together.


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## f350ca (Dec 11, 2019)

Have a couple of repulsive/inductive motors. Don't believe there is a start winding to worry about. To reverse them the brush assembly is rotated slightly.
They were pretty neat motors, low starting current and high starting torque compared to capacitor start motors. 

Greg


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## Flyinfool (Dec 11, 2019)

For your wall power, the red and black are for 220, the white wire with either the red or the black will be 110V. The 4 wire plugs are for things that use both 110 and 220 in the same machine. For your 220 machine forget that the white wire is even there.


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## silence dogood (Dec 11, 2019)

63redtudor is my son and I have seen the motor.  The motor is set up to run on 220.  The problem is that he has a four  plug dryer plugin.  We know that the two straight plugs are the hot 220 and each will be connect to the single wires.  The upside down L is the neutral.   Is this the one that goes to the twisted pair coming out the motor?   The upside down U is the ground.  Should there be a wire (green) be connected to the motor case, too?  We just want to be sure.


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## Flyinfool (Dec 11, 2019)

NOOOOOooooooo.........
The pin with the white wire is not connected to anything for this motor. The pin with the green wire is connected to the motor frame. On your dryer the white is only there for the 110V light bulbs.


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## silence dogood (Dec 11, 2019)

Flyinfool said:


> NOOOOOooooooo.........
> The pin with the white wire is not connected to anything for this motor. The pin with the green wire is connected to the motor frame. On your dryer the white is only there for the 110V light bulbs.


Thank you, this is what we are trying to find out.


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## markba633csi (Dec 11, 2019)

Some of these old motors may be electrically leaky and a possible shock hazard;  possibly why motor shops shy away from them.  
You only need to connect the 220 volt lines and a ground.  Neutral not needed.  
Be safe
M


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## 63redtudor (Dec 12, 2019)

Wow! Thanks everyone for the responses, this is very helpful!
Not to insult anyone's intelligence, but I guess I'd better explain what I have a little better. My dad and I did a bit of reading (not all of it on the internet...), to figure out what this motor is and how they are configured. What threw my dad and I off was the fact that the motor is AC, but had a communicator and brush assembly like a DC motor. Apparently the communicators stay engaged till the motor gets up to speed, then disengage (I guess there is such a thing as a true Repulsion-Induction motor and the communicators stay engaged the entire time, but they are rare). The motors are reversible, but you have to physically move the communicator assembly (many of the motors had a little lever) before the motor was started. Most (all?) of these motors were dual rated for 110v or 220v, basically there were 2 parallel sets of coils. The coil (voltage) that wasn't used was shorted out, hence 2 wires connected together. As a result, all of these motors I've read about have 4 wires (I'm sure there's an exception), 2 for 110v and 2 for 220v. I realize that this is a VERY simple explanation (I'm sure there's an expert who is twitching), but this was the best way for me to understand it.
The 2 wires that are connected (I'm pretty confident they are the 110v wires) have a permanent butt-splice connecting them together. 
If I am understanding the advice here correctly, I ignore the white wire and it doesn't matter (black or red) which wire goes to which connection on the motor as the direction is dictated by where the brushes are on the communicator. Eventually I would like to add a light to the lathe, then I will use the white wire (correct?). But that will be a question for another time.
Originally my intention was to make sure the motor works and then get a reversing drum switch like I used on my Sheldon. However, (as long as the motor works anyway) I think that I will use a push-button style switch for running the motor. The toggle switch I have right now is just to simply test the motor (markba633csi, your caution is well noted). So, if the motor does not work and I end up getting a different one, the white wire will probably not be used as long as I stick with 220v. (Right?)
I know that this has been a little long-winded, but I want to make sure I get this right without destroying the motor or zapping myself. Thank you everyone who has posted, this has been VERY helpful!


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## markba633csi (Dec 12, 2019)

AC motors came in several different flavors since Tesla pioneered the idea- the starting circuit has seen the biggest evolution as the commutator was discarded in favor of a phase shifting capacitor and centrifugal switch for a good compromise of starting torque, efficiency and manufacturing cost.
Unfortunately your motor can't be easily reversed electrically like modern ones, but that may not be a deal breaker for your application
M
ps I'm taking an educated guess here, but I believe rather than "110 volt" and "220 volt" wires, the windings are connected either parallel or series, respectfully,  to accommodate the two voltages


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## RobertB (Dec 12, 2019)

Flyinfool said:


> . On your dryer the white is only there for the 110V light bulbs.


On a dryer the drum motor, lights, timer (electronic or mechanical) all run on 110, the only thing that uses 220 is the heating element.

Back in the old days when many houses were still wired with fuses rather than circuit breakers this would cause a lot of unnecessary calls to appliance repairmen. If the fuse blew on the leg that wasn't powering the motor the dryer would still run but not heat. People would think the heating element burned out and would call the repairman, never thinking it was just a fuse.


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## markba633csi (Dec 13, 2019)

That's true, and on the subject of dryers, the 3 prong outlet used the neutral as a ground for the chassis


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## 63redtudor (Dec 13, 2019)

ITS ALIVE!!! The motor works and didn't burn up! Sure are a few sparks from the brushes when it starts, but it is smooth running. The reverse works as well, though there are more sparks in the other direction. I would assume that over time (starts) there would be fewer sparks as the brushes wear back in, or is that simply a property of this style of motor?
So, funny story. Turns out that you can wire up a motor, a switch and a plug but if the wires in the breaker box are not connected a motor will not run.... Sigh, sometimes being a moron means that others get a good laugh at your expense.
Regardless, THANK YOU EVERYONE who helped out with this! People here are smart and awsome!
Edwin


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## markba633csi (Dec 13, 2019)

Yay! Another motor saved from the landfill!  Way to go Edwin


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## silence dogood (Dec 13, 2019)

This is more than saving a motor from  a landfill.  Ed and I spent over an hour trying to figure this out and wire a breaker in a box.  Bit worried about it since I was 700 miles away on the telephone.  P.S. I don't think anyone one on this site thinks that you are a moron and laughing at you.


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## Z2V (Dec 14, 2019)

Good to hear you got it going. You mentioned more sparking in one direction than the other. Just curious, are the brushes mounted at a right angle to the commutator or are the at an angle in relation to the comm? Leading or trailing depending on direction of rotation. If they are at an angle this could lead to increased spark in one direction over the other. It will work either way but a radial (right angle) mounting is better for a reversible motor.


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## 63redtudor (Dec 14, 2019)

Ok, so I know the motor works. Now I have more questions.
Each end of the motor has 2 oil caps. One is on the top of the bearing (and has a felt wick), and the other one is on the side and has a screw-on cap. Are these both actually oil cups as I thought, or have I been putting oil somwhere I shouldn't be? Whats with the second oil cup on each side?
What type of oil should I actually be using on this thing. Right now I've been using some 30wt that I have (with the motor having sat so long without oil, I'd rather have incorrect oil than none at all), but in the long run I'd like to use something better suited to the motor.
When I switch from one direction to another, is there a sweet spot, or does it really matter where I actually locate the communicator's where ever they work? Z2V, the brushes do have a slight angle to them, I guess that would mean that the motor is designed to run in one direction more than the other? If so, I probably won't fool with that much. With a threaded spindle I don't reverse all that much, but it is nice to have the ability.
Unfortunately, there is very little to no information on the Delco motors, that I've been able to find anyway. Does anyone have some literature on them?


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