# Clausing 11 Headstock Alignment



## Badge171 (Feb 28, 2014)

Can any one out there tell me the correct way to align the head-stock on my 11 ". I cant seem to cut a 3" pin without it being off .003 from start to end.I have tried to chuck a 3/4 ground bar (quality is questionable) in a collet, attach my indicator to the cross slide, and align by the head-stock alignment block, But it is not aligning . 
 Any help is appreciated


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## Badge171 (Feb 28, 2014)

Update
 Tried to chuck a 2" steel rod 8" long unsupported as per a clausing manual I found via Google , manual says to make 2 cuts rough one a finish, mike the ends 6"in width. Cant make a cut at any speed get so much chatter it trips the power lever. Not sure what to do????


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## Ulma Doctor (Feb 28, 2014)

is the cutter on center? or above or below?
is the crossslide adjusted sufficiently to prevent deflection?
 is there too much backlash in your compound?
try taking cuts at a low to moderate speed, a freshly sharpened tool will work best.
are the headstock spindle bearings up to temperature and lubricated during the test?
is there too much spindle slop?

these are the questions i would answer first, there are most likely going to be more questions dependent on the answers...

aluminum is a great material to do test cuts.
 depending on what type of steel you are trying to cut it might be part of your problem .


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## Kernbigo (Mar 1, 2014)

I also had a chatter problem and it was spindle oil (lack of),also if you are having a taper problem you shim the mounting leg, between the table and the leg on a bench mount. First like you manual says you have to determine which way the taper is,  if it is larger on the tailstock end you shim the leg closet toward you as the operator stands.


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## Badge171 (Mar 1, 2014)

Thanks
 I had the day off today so here goes. My lathe has been on those rubber mounting pads. Specific size for the weight of the machine (1000 LBS). Always thought they could be a source of vibration, So I removed them, tapped the lathe bed flanges 5/8 x 11 Tpi . had some 5/8 carriage bolts milled the heads hex, and ground the bottoms flat. I replace all rubber floor mounts with these new adjusters. I have the bed right on level .I used my pals Starret 6" machinist level. I removed the head stock. The lathe had been totally apart about a year ago due to my moving. Anyway removed the head-stock, cleaned under, above, and in between. lubed the adjuster . mounted the headstock. Put my 3/4 ground rod (closest piece I have to concentric) via 3/4 collet, with about 11" overhang. Checked My spindle bearing adjustment (cold) per the manual .no run out . Ran my Starret last word indicator the length of the rod and adjusted the headstock as close as I could to 0. Removed the collet mounted my 3 jaw, centered my 2" mild steel . 6" length unsupported per manual. I was going to following the manual one cut. and one finish cut. Tool was sharp enough to shave with. Gibbs were all adjusted, It chattered so bad I thought stuff was going to fall off the shelves. I could not attempt to even start a cut. Just cant figure what I'm doing wrong. Removed the steel stock and went and purchased 3" by 7" length aluminum .Finally I can make a cut. I have the head stock adjusted to .001 over the length of the aluminum. I think by tomorrow I can get it where im satisfied . But it is still eating me why the steel will not cut as per the manual. I think I need someone with some experience to give me some schooling. Oh ya all the work tapping on my knees. and making the levelers all for not. Some one shoot me. 
Any suggestions greatly appreciated
Frank


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## azzrock (Mar 3, 2014)

hi mate does the machine vibrate when its turning? how fast are you spinning it?
can you show a photo of your cutting tool.
if it vibrates when you turn the spindle try running it with the chuck removed and compair
any vibration.
aaron



Badge171 said:


> Thanks
> I had the day off today so here goes. My lathe has been on those rubber mounting pads. Specific size for the weight of the machine (1000 LBS). Always thought they could be a source of vibration, So I removed them, tapped the lathe bed flanges 5/8 x 11 Tpi . had some 5/8 carriage bolts milled the heads hex, and ground the bottoms flat. I replace all rubber floor mounts with these new adjusters. I have the bed right on level .I used my pals Starret 6" machinist level. I removed the head stock. The lathe had been totally apart about a year ago due to my moving. Anyway removed the head-stock, cleaned under, above, and in between. lubed the adjuster . mounted the headstock. Put my 3/4 ground rod (closest piece I have to concentric) via 3/4 collet, with about 11" overhang. Checked My spindle bearing adjustment (cold) per the manual .no run out . Ran my Starret last word indicator the length of the rod and adjusted the headstock as close as I could to 0. Removed the collet mounted my 3 jaw, centered my 2" mild steel . 6" length unsupported per manual. I was going to following the manual one cut. and one finish cut. Tool was sharp enough to shave with. Gibbs were all adjusted, It chattered so bad I thought stuff was going to fall off the shelves. I could not attempt to even start a cut. Just cant figure what I'm doing wrong. Removed the steel stock and went and purchased 3" by 7" length aluminum .Finally I can make a cut. I have the head stock adjusted to .001 over the length of the aluminum. I think by tomorrow I can get it where im satisfied . But it is still eating me why the steel will not cut as per the manual. I think I need someone with some experience to give me some schooling. Oh ya all the work tapping on my knees. and making the levelers all for not. Some one shoot me.
> Any suggestions greatly appreciated
> Frank


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## Badge171 (Mar 3, 2014)

Arron
 Sorry for the miss understanding . The lathe chatters on the unsupported, 3 jaw, cut on a 2" mild steel  6" length as per the manual for headstock alignment.
Regards
Frank


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## eganx (Mar 4, 2014)

WHat are your speeds and feeds on both the materials? Have you checked your spindle bearings for play? 2x4 under the chuck with an indicator on the top side of the chuck to measure movement vertically.....lever on that 2x4 and see how much movement you get.


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## azzrock (Mar 4, 2014)

Badge171 said:


> Arron
> Sorry for the miss understanding . The lathe chatters on the unsupported, 3 jaw, cut on a 2" mild steel  6" length as per the manual for headstock alignment.
> Regards
> Frank



ok then. just going thru this out aloud.
the steel bar what sort of steel is it its not some sort of hard bar?
back to the cutting tool. if all the clearances are right and its on centre
height. id be trying these test cuts at one of the slower spindle speeds
maybe around 300 rpm and try a cut with the quick change gear box in
neutral of disengaged.
photos would help


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## Badge171 (Mar 4, 2014)

I tried speeds from 185 rpm to 550 rpm,s carbide inserted tool, and HSS ground razor sharp with the correct angles and relief.Ill see if I can get some pictures for this
Regards


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## azzrock (Mar 5, 2014)

Badge171 said:


> I tried speeds from 185 rpm to 550 rpm,s carbide inserted tool, and HSS ground razor sharp with the correct angles and relief.Ill see if I can get some pictures for this
> Regards



ok it sounds like you have it all covered.
if you could include a  photo of the test piece it may help..
aaron


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## hvontres (Mar 7, 2014)

Quick question:

Have you tried turning steel closer to the chuck? One possible reason you are getting a lot of chatter on the 6 in bar could be a loose or worn out chuck. Especially if your jaws are bellmouthed, since you would be holding the end of the rod on essetially a single point that would allow the far end to pivot and wobble in the chuck.

Just some random thoughts.


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## Badge171 (Mar 7, 2014)

I believe it is a combination of things , including a chuck tolerance problem. I do have the alignment close .0005 within the 6" length of 2.75 " aluminum . 
 Its difficult to make the adjustment and put the lathe back together make a cut, disassemble start all over again .I am not happy with the results, Am I expecting too much ,wanting .0000 over the length of the test cut. 
Thanks all that helped, it's very appreciated


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## chips&more (Mar 20, 2014)

I once had a Seneca Falls lathe and that thing would chatter if you just looked at it! However, with its major flaw, it taught me a lot about tool pressure, speeds & feeds and machine rigidity. Using a form cutter was out of the question. The closer I got to a pointy end tool bit, the better off I was. And I didn’t leave the tool bit sitting at a shoulder either!
To your chatter problem, if your carriage assembly is functioning, I would check 2 other things. (1) The chuck you are using to hold the work piece. If you can, change chucks. Like someone else has said, bell mouthed jaws or the scroll is bad. Is it a Buck chuck or like, maybe the centering adjustments are just loose on it? (2) The bearings in the headstock. Could be it has end shake play. Check the pre-load…Good Luck.


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## chips&more (Mar 20, 2014)

Been giving your chatter problem a little more thought.  Let’s try and narrow your possibilities down with a simple test.  Put that 2” steel bar in your chuck and let it hang out the 8”. But now center drill the end of that 8” overhang and support it with a ball bearing or dead center mounted in your tail stock.  Now take a cut. I’m thinking your chatter is gone and you would have a hard time to make it chatter.  Of course this test is not going to work for alignment calibration, we are just trying to find out where the chatter is coming from. If your chatter is gone, I think you have ruled out the carriage, tool type and its geometry, cutting speeds and all of that  and point your attention to the chuck and or the headstock bearings…Good Luck


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## Badge171 (Mar 21, 2014)

Thanks
 I have since chucked the piece, center drilled and live centered cut, no chatter, Still dont have the alignment good, off .0005 over the length of 6 " 
Any suggestions appreciated
Frank


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## Kernbigo (Mar 21, 2014)

did you try my suggestion oiling the headstock bearings it worked on my south bend, i had the same problem


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## Badge171 (Mar 22, 2014)

The Clausing has an encased gear oil bath head stock.
thanks

- - - Updated - - -

One other thing I did try the 3 Jaw and 4 jaw chucks same chatter on the unsupported piece,


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## chips&more (Mar 22, 2014)

What kind of head stock spindle bearings does it have? Does your manual tell you how to check head stock bearing pre-load? Maybe try chucking a stout piece of metal in the chuck, letting it overhang as long as possible, the longer the better. Then run indicator*s to* the chuck to reference any play in any direction. With the lathe off, try to find any abnormal indicator readings when leveraging the bar by hand. You might even be able to feel/hear the play if there is any…Good luck.


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