# I Must Have Done Something...



## Tozguy (Mar 2, 2016)

RIGHT!

What a joy, only my third milling job on the lathe and it went super well. After three passes the end mill is still as new. Finish is marvelous. No chatter, squeeking, banging or any other kind of rock music. Just a low hum. I'm hooked!


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## TommyD (Mar 2, 2016)

Good for you.


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## FOMOGO (Mar 2, 2016)

Great! Time to start saving up for that milling machine. Mike


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## kvt (Mar 2, 2016)

+1 on getting a mill,   I have a mill and use it almost as much as my lathe.


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## Tozguy (Mar 2, 2016)

FOMOGO said:


> Great! Time to start saving up for that milling machine. Mike



Been shopping for a mill and studying specs for several years now. The little milling I have to do can easily be done on the lathe but I still dream about a mill. Maybe one day.


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## RandyM (Mar 3, 2016)

Tozguy said:


> RIGHT!
> 
> What a joy, only my third milling job on the lathe and it went super well. After three passes the end mill is still as new. Finish is marvelous. No chatter, squeeking, banging or any other kind of rock music. Just a low hum. I'm hooked!



Yeah, it feels pretty good, doesn't it?


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## Bill Gruby (Mar 3, 2016)

Good for you. No stopping you now. For your milling needs may I take the liberty  of recommending the Clausing 8520. It's probably the most sought after Hobby Mill available.

 "Billy G"


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## Bill W. (Mar 3, 2016)

Believe me....  You think all your milling you need to do can be done on your lathe. 
Wait until you bite the bullet and get a mill.... so many more doors open up.

Congrats...
Bill


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## Tozguy (Mar 9, 2016)

More milling on the lathe but this time with a different set up. The 4x6x5/16 angle iron allows me to zero the work on all axis without using shims. The set up is very solid and uses the full travel of the cross slide. Pics tell the story better than I can.


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## epanzella (Mar 11, 2016)

Tozguy said:


> More milling on the lathe but this time with a different set up. The 4x6x5/16 angle iron allows me to zero the work on all axis without using shims. The set up is very solid and uses the full travel of the cross slide. Pics tell the story better than I can.
> 
> View attachment 124230
> View attachment 124231
> View attachment 124232



Ah, I see you took the same route I did when making my milling attachment for my 12 x 36 lathe. Using the compound for the Z axis. Works great don't it? I did mine 2 years ago and have since added a few refinements that I'm very happy with. The first is the addition of a 8" x 8" x 3/4" plate that has a grid of 3/8" x 16tpi holes for clamping versatility. (can be seen in my avatar at left). Next is a low profile milling vice that goes on the plate. I milled a slot in in the bottom of the plate that holds a 3/8 key stock "curb"  so that the vise can sit against it and always be level. I just bought a 4 inch rotary table that tilts for milling angles. I haven't modified it for use with the table yet but I think it will complete the capability of my setup. It's fairly rigid and will cut 3/4" x .050 in steel without breaking a sweat. I have cut 3/4" x .100 in steel  but it makes a hum that sounds like things are working a bit harder than I'm comfy with.


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## Tozguy (Mar 11, 2016)

epanzella,   I'm not surprised if this has already been done many times. It is great for small milling jobs. My set up now includes a small precision vise mounted on the compound. Could we see some pictures of your set up?


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## planeflyer21 (Mar 12, 2016)

I was looking at using an angle plate for the same purpose:  to get some milling use out of the lathe.

Good setup Tozguy!

Can you give us a couple of more photos of how you support that angle plate?


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## BRIAN (Mar 12, 2016)

Another trick is to mount the compound to the angle by the tool post stud thi then allows you to chance the angle of cut.
 You may find my thread A beginners clock interesting  http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/a-beginners-clock.9737/     it shows this system being used to cut gears on a 7x12

Brian.


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## FOMOGO (Mar 12, 2016)

It's nice having multiple machines, but I'm always impressed by how many folks here make do quite nicely with just one. Mike


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## Tozguy (Mar 12, 2016)

Jon,
The angle plate is fastened to the cross slide by the two bolts that usually hold the compound to the cross slide. A screw is added at the far end of the angle iron for extra stability but I am not sure it is needed. A hole had to be drilled and tapped in the cross slide for this 1/4NC cap screw. No other modifications to the cross slide were required for mounting the angle plate. There are three cap screws along the edge of the angle plate that were intended to set the vertical alignment but they only rest on the surface of the cross slide. Hope that helps. Mike


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## planeflyer21 (Mar 12, 2016)

Very much so, Mike!  Awesome!


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## epanzella (Mar 12, 2016)

Tozguy said:


> View attachment 124490
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sure, Tozguy. I used a ground angle plate and attached it  by tapping 3/8 x 16 holes in the X-slide. I also made a small milling attachment  by welding  some plate onto a BXA toolholder. I made some mild steel end mill holders so if I had a quick milling job I could just still an end mill into the 3 jaw and use the BXA holder. Saves time over switching the toolpost and digging out the 5c's.


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## epanzella (Mar 12, 2016)

Tozguy said:


> View attachment 124537
> View attachment 124538
> 
> Jon,
> ...


Just a word of caution on that attachment method. If you measure the depth of that groove under the compound and compare it to the full depth of the X-slide, you'll discover there's only about 1/8 inch of material at the bottom of that groove. When I first made my milling attachment I attached it that way and after a few months, the stress of milling broke that circle of cast iron right out of my X-slide. After buying a new X-slide I now use four tapped 3/8 x 16 holes. No more problems.


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## Tozguy (Mar 12, 2016)

Epanzella, thanks, very solid looking set up, great work, inspiring. 
The x slide on my lathe is at least 3/8ths thick where the extra hole was tapped. 
That 1/4'' screw acts mostly as a locator and not for holding very tight.
Mike


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## epanzella (Mar 12, 2016)

Tozguy said:


> Epanzella, thanks, very solid looking set up, great work, inspiring.
> The x slide on my lathe is at least 3/8ths thick where the extra hole was tapped.
> That 1/4'' screw acts mostly as a locator and not for holding very tight.
> Mike


I'm not talking about the screw, I'm talking about the groove cut into the X-slide. The stress of milling broke that whole circle of cast iron out of my slide. See pix; That slide used to look just like yours.


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## Tozguy (Mar 13, 2016)

Yikes, now I see what you mean. When it happened were there only the usual two T bolts holding the angle plate? You mentioned four 3/8ths bolts now holding the angle plate to the new cross slide may we see where they are located please? Its not too late for me to change my set up.


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## planeflyer21 (Mar 13, 2016)

Bummer.

Something else I'd been considering was getting a blank cross slide, i.e., a flat piece of cast iron and then making a table with various mounting points.

Hhmmm...


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## Tozguy (Mar 13, 2016)

I would like to know a few more details about the set up that broke the cross slide before drawing any conclusions on my own set up. However, there is also the possibility of clamping my angle plate to the cross slide. With a plate the same width and length as the cross slide, it would be easy to rig a clamp on each corner to hold it to the cross slide with relatively little stress.


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## epanzella (Mar 13, 2016)

planeflyer21 said:


> Bummer.
> 
> Something else I'd been considering was getting a blank cross slide, i.e., a flat piece of cast iron and then making a table with various mounting points.
> 
> Hhmmm...





Tozguy said:


> I would like to know a few more details about the set up that broke the cross slide before drawing any conclusions on my own set up. However, there is also the possibility of clamping my angle plate to the cross slide. With a plate the same width and length as the cross slide, it would be easy to rig a clamp on each corner to hold it to the cross slide with relatively little stress.



I originally had a piece of angle iron about 5/8 thick by 11 inches long with 8 inch legs. I secured it with 2 bolts tapped into the X-slide at the back end and the 2 compound hold down bolts at the handwheel end. It worked great for a while and then the finish started going downhill with sort of a herringbone pattern. I couldn't figure out what was wrong as the finish kept getting worse and then eventually developed into a chatter. When I was swapping out the milling attachment I noticed a crack in the cast iron at the bottom of that groove. It went 270 degrees around the hole. A new X-slide was backordered so I turned the old X-slide backwards and re-attached everything with tapped holes just so I could keep working while I waited for the new slide to come in.  It worked so well I again used tapped holes when I finally got the new slide. I also used a ground angle plate instead of the original angle iron piece. Much stiffer and more accurate.  While I was at it I eliminated the need for the compound by using tapped holes to mount a big block of junkyard steel and put my QCTP on top of that. Much more rigid. My machine always parted well but this thing parts like a demon now. I put some pix below to help with hole location but your mileage may vary. In general, space holes as wide as you can but avoid cutting into gibs and ways.

PS: You may notice in the shot with the toolblock the X-slide in on backwards. I have a piece of aluminum flashing covering over the gaping compound hole to stop swarf from getting into the slide.


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## Tozguy (Mar 13, 2016)

Thank you so much, it is clear now except for the 8'' legs you had on the original angle iron. You might just have saved my X slide for me. 
Would you mind explaining what the 8'' legs were doing on the original set up? 
My angle iron is not ground like it should be. Do you think there is any merit to bedding my angle iron to the compound with epoxy-steel (not glued just bedded) when using the four new mounting points?


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## epanzella (Mar 13, 2016)

Tozguy said:


> Thank you so much, it is clear now except for the 8'' legs you had on the original angle iron. You might just have saved my X slide for me.
> Would you mind explaining what the 8'' legs were doing on the original set up?
> My angle iron is not ground like it should be. Do you think there is any merit to bedding my angle iron to the compound with epoxy-steel (not glued just bedded) when using the four new mounting points?


By "legs" I mean the size of the angle iron. I didn't add anything to it. The angle iron was 11" long, 8" tall, and 8" wide. It was very similar to what you're using now. As far as bedding to the x-slide, don't forget you want to be able to take it off and put it back on without a big production. The ground angle plate is right on every time (within .001) and wasn't expensive.  About $50, I think. Please keep in mind, I'm no machinist. I'm a tinkerer just like you trying to think outside the box to make up for not having a milling machine.


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## Tozguy (Mar 13, 2016)

The epoxy bedding approach is often used to bed an action in the stock of a target rifle. It provides a 'stress free' joint, held together by two evenly torqued screws, that is very stable and solid.

A ground plate may be flat, and the compound surface also, but both have tolerances. With cast iron you have to be extra careful about not stressing it (as you already know). To get a stress free fit they need to be lapped.

An alternative is epoxy bedding which would also provide a stress free mating surface on the plate. A very thin layer of epoxy would be permanently stuck to the plate only. This is accomplished by using a release agent on the surface of the compound so that the two parts can be separated after the epoxy has set without any epoxy being left on the compound. After that it would not be any more involved to install the plate on and off than before.

From one tinkerer to another, I have no milling work ahead to do. This is just an exercise for me.  I sure am enjoying the exchange of ideas. I have already learned a lot about milling and hungry to know more. 

Cheers everybody, Mike


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## epanzella (Mar 13, 2016)

Yeah, I know about epoxy bedding and mold release. I bought my lathe to do gunsmithing. My last project was  a 40 cal smokeless muzzle loader based on  a Savage 111 action.  I did everything myself.  All machining, action bedding  and even the rust blueing. It shoots great. BTW, CDCO has the angle plate I used. It's ground to .001 tolerance and cost $39.oo. Hardly worth messing around with epoxies and plates.


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## Tozguy (Mar 13, 2016)

Thanks for the heads up on CDCO. But even if I had a $200 angle plate I would want to bed it to the x-slide anyway. The problem being the unknown surface quality of the x-slide on a budget lathe. I also like to imagine that the layer of epoxy would somehow dampen vibrations transmitted through the joint. Results have been excellent milling with the angle iron I already have so it is just a question of mounting it differently.  
Any pics of your muzzle loader? What bullets do you use?


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## epanzella (Mar 13, 2016)

Tozguy said:


> Thanks for the heads up on CDCO. But even if I had a $200 angle plate I would want to bed it to the x-slide anyway. The problem being the unknown surface quality of the x-slide on a budget lathe. I also like to imagine that the layer of epoxy would somehow dampen vibrations transmitted through the joint. Results have been excellent milling with the angle iron I already have so it is just a question of mounting it differently.
> Any pics of your muzzle loader? What bullets do you use?


I have been using 200 gr XTP, Harvester Blue Sabot, and 62 gr RL-7. Groups an inch @ 100yds and develops 2550 FPS. I've got a custom mold on order. 300 gr cast, 40 cal. I'm attaching a pic of the gun and a pic of the exit wound of an XTP on 3 phone books. For some reason I can't find the pix of the gun after bluing, only in the white. If I can't figure out how I filed them I'll take more.
Ed


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## Tozguy (Mar 14, 2016)

Beautiful! You must feel really good about your work and results. 
Thanks, Mike


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## epanzella (Mar 14, 2016)

Tozguy said:


> Beautiful! You must feel really good about your work and results.
> Thanks, Mike


Yeah, I do. Building a custom rifle from scratch was always the holy grail for me. Nowadays just about anyone with a decent lathe and internet access can have satisfactory results .


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## Tozguy (Mar 16, 2016)

Here is my revised angle iron set up.
The angle is held by three screws along the front side (facing the headstock). The other side of the angle iron is fastened to a square tube that clamps to the cross slide. The two bolts that normally hold the compound to the x-slide are not used.

Note that the angle iron was turned around. This helped solve a couple of problems. First it shifts the compound 2.5'' inches towards the x-slide which reduces the leverage on the mounting system. The mass of the set up is more centered over the x-slide. Second, it raises the vise by approx. 1'' which will allow more engagement of the compound dovetail most of the time.


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## epanzella (Mar 16, 2016)

Tozguy said:


> Here is my revised angle iron set up.
> The angle is held by three screws along the front side (facing the headstock). The other side of the angle iron is fastened to a square tube that clamps to the cross slide. The two bolts that normally hold the compound to the x-slide are not used.
> 
> Note that the angle iron was turned around. This helped solve a couple of problems. First it shifts the compound 2.5'' inches towards the x-slide which reduces the leverage on the mounting system. The mass of the set up is more centered over the compound. Second, it raises the vise by approx. 1'' which will allow more engagement of the compound dovetail most of the time.
> ...


Looks great, Mike.


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## planeflyer21 (Mar 16, 2016)

Well done Toz!


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## Tozguy (Mar 22, 2016)

Thanks epanzella and Jon.

All dressed up with no place to go!

Got the angle iron bedded to fit the x-slide very intimately 
That wraps up the milling attachment but there is nothing in sight for me to mill.
I might have to paint this little puppy if things stay slow.


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