# Evaluating a 10L



## Stanshire (Jan 2, 2014)

I'm thinking about replacing my 10x22 Grizzly lathe with a Heavy 10. Although I'm not opposed to something else, it's the lathe that I always wanted (well, an HLV-H or a 10EE would be nice)
When I got my Bridgeport last summer I had read anything I could find about evaluating a BP. After looking at (actual count) 43 Bridgeports, I finally found "the one". It lived it's entire life from 1968 in the small, family owned job shop, as a tool room mill. It was never a production machine. I have all of the original paperwork.
I only say this because I need the expertise here on my search for a Heavy 10. 
The chucks are not a factor as I acquired very good 3 and 4 jaw and 5C plain-back chucks  for the Grizzly and would only need new backplates.
So what should I watch out for, and what do I need to know in my search?
thanks, guys

Best,
stan


----------



## Earl (Jan 2, 2014)

I am a Heavy 10 owner and also have a Grizzly g4003g.   I prefer the South Bend.  The Grizzly has a larger spindle bore and a longer bed.   Those are the two reasons for having it.   Back to the heavy 10:

There are two versions of the Headstock   the 10L (large) has a 1 3/8 inch spindle bore.  The 10R (regular) has a smaller bore - 7/8 I believe.  The larger (10L) will accept 5C collets.  I have both the lever collet closer and the hand wheel closer I don't know what size collets the 10R will accept.

My 10L has a 42 inch bed that will allow somewhere around 23 inches between centers.   I would prefer to have a longer bed.  I do a lot of rifle barrel work and mine would be too short if I didn't have the large spindle bore.  I do my chambering with the barrel thru the headstock. 

The best way that I know of determining the wear on the ways is to move the carriage all the way to the left (close to the chuck).   Run the carriage lock down by hand until you can just feel it engaging the ways.   Then crank the carriage to the right.  At some point - usually 6-8 inches, the carriage will stop moving as the carriage lock engages a "less worn" area of the ways.  You can loosen it up a bit and try again.  Doing that a few times only takes seconds and will give you some idea of the wear on the ways.

Good work can be done with a "well worn" lathe.   You just have to know your machine.   A wise man once told me "It ain't the arrows,  it's the Indian."

When looking at a lathe,  I always like to grab the cross slide and see if I can feel any "play"  (in - out - left- right).   Then I look for the amount of backlash in the cross slide indicator dial.   Most of the machines I have seen at least .010" of rotation (as seen on the dial) before the cross slide actually moves.   This indicates wear on the cross slide screw or the  bronze nut attached to the cross-slide.    Same thing with the compound.  

I have a worn lead screw on my cross-slide.   It takes a half a turn to get rid of the backlash but the machine runs fine.   I have a DRO on the machine and I watch that instead of the dials so it means nothing to me.  I just turn the crank until the numbers change.  Again, it is the machinist, not the machine that determines the quality of the parts made.

Run the tail-stock out at least 2 inches and see if there is any slop.   Just grab it and see if it wiggles.   Make sure that the tailstock is locked down and the quill lock is tight.   I had my tailstock modified by a gentleman down in the Carolinas.   It now has about 3 and a half inches of travel as opposed to about 2 inches.   I chamber a lot of barrels and I appreciate the ability to do a complete chamber without having to move the tailstock.

Make sure that the lathe you buy comes with a "thread dial."   Also make sure that it is the proper one for the lathe.   There are many lathes sold without them because the ebay price for one can run over $200. (ridiculous in my opinion).

Lift the pulley cover and inspect the back ears.  Many operators engage the back gears and keep the bull gear pin in place to keep the spindle from turning when they unscrew the chuck.  If the chuck doesn't want to come off,  they put a bar crosswise in the chuck and proceed to strip the back gears.   That can be another hundred bucks spent on ebay.   

The serial number of the lathe is located on the right side of the bed.  You will have to move the tailstock out of the way in order to see it.
Google Steve Wells to get his web site link.   He has a serial number list that will tell you the approximate build date for the South Bend lathes.

That is about all I can think of at this time.   I'm sure that others will chime in with more "tips"

Earl


One other thing.  Most of the Heavy 10's were shipped with 3 phase motors.    That is a good thing!   Mine has a 3 phase motor and I added a Chinese Variable Frequency Drive and I couldn't be happier.   I was originally using a rotary phase converter and was happy with that until I got the VFD.  It is one of those things that make you say  "I will never have another lathe with out it!"


----------



## woodtickgreg (Jan 3, 2014)

Earl gives good advise. The wear on the bed would be my main concern, I think everything else could be repaired. Then again it kinda depends on weather you are looking for a lathe that is ready to run or one that you are willing to restore. I purchased mine for $500 and put about another $400 into it and then had to purchase chucks and tooling. But I do have a very nice lathe for my efforts and little expense imo.


----------



## Stanshire (Jan 3, 2014)

Thanks for the responses. I'll pay close attention with any Heavy 10 I look at. Although I'm not afraid of some "refurbishing", I'd much prefer a lathe that I can use right away and "tune-up" as I go. 
Agree 100% on the VFD. I have one on the Grizzly lathe and another on the Bridgeport. Even though the BP has a 2J (variable speed head), I use the VFD for fine tuning.
I'll keep posting with the lathes that I look at as a progress report. No rush. I have a working lathe and can wait for a good Heavy 10 like I did with the BP.

Greg
I watched your entire refurb. Wow! What a beauty you have. Very impressive job.


----------



## woodtickgreg (Jan 3, 2014)

Stanshire said:


> Thanks for the responses. I'll pay close attention with any Heavy 10 I look at. Although I'm not afraid of some "refurbishing", I'd much prefer a lathe that I can use right away and "tune-up" as I go.
> Agree 100% on the VFD. I have one on the Grizzly lathe and another on the Bridgeport. Even though the BP has a 2J (variable speed head), I use the VFD for fine tuning.
> I'll keep posting with the lathes that I look at as a progress report. No rush. I have a working lathe and can wait for a good Heavy 10 like I did with the BP.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the kind words about my lathe restore, it was really fun doing it.
The vfd runs my lathe very nicely. I use the lathe quite a bit, she is now covered with oil and chips as it was meant to be. I said all along that I intended to use it and I am. Imo, it was a lot of work but it was so worth it, very rewarding and I know this machine like no other I own. I would do it all over again.


----------



## itsme_Bernie (Jan 3, 2014)

Advice above is all right on, so I won't reiterate.

First, general lathe evaluation advice:

http://www.mermac.com/advicenew.html

There is a page on "advice on klunkers" which is not available today, but an IMPORTANTLY good read.  Basically klunkers are still great machines.  I had one and loved it.

You might be asking some advice in what features or models to look for. 

First, there are "large dial" models that have large dials on the crosslide and compound.  Google for pics.  You no NOT need to buy a model with them already, as they are 10 minute swap if you find them.

The models after 1950 or so had "double tumbler"' gearboxes, which many people seem to want, but it haven't heard any complaints from a single "single tumbler" owner.  I am quite sure that WoodtickGreg's is single tumbler, so you can ask him.
You will know the "single tumbler" by the flat topped gearbox with a shelf and a lever on top, and a selector in the front.  "Double tumbler has a round top, no shelf, no lever on top, and two selectors in the front.
There is also an "extended range" double tumbler that goes up to 480 tpi, 70 feeds.  Again, nice, but not necessary.  I have one now, and it is nice, but definitely don't turn down a machine over it.

Some people prefer either bench or floor models.  I have owned both.  I had a "round leg" 1955.  Feel free to ask us folks here about our different bases here.  I have had a "round leg bench" and a later "square leg floor".  These are both the easiest to move, I think.  But none are too hard to move.  The older floor model, that looks like the "stereotypical South Bend", has completely separate legs at the tailstock end of the chip pan as opposed to the other two.   They each have different availability for storage built in or for you to add, so ask if you are interested.  My shop is small, so it mattered to me.

I don't see any reason you should pick a 10R (rare anyway, and smaller spindle) over a 10L (5C friendly, wide bore spindle).  I doubt you will run onto one.

Don't worry about clear info plates or such, as there are great ones to replace them 99% perfectly available on Ebay by a manufacturer if yours aren't easily read.

Later models (1960 or so and later) have 1/1000 inch micrometer dial at the tailstock handwheel as well as the markings on the ram.  These tailstock had an oil filler tube on the opposite side from the operator.
Older models only have 1/10 inch markings on the tailstock ram itself.

Lastly, there are earlier "star clutch" and later "lever clutch" feed clutches.  Again, NEITHER a deal breaker.  There is some preference toward the "lever" type (google away for pics).  Star type denotes the star shaped handle.  The handle turns along with the feed, which requires a a little chasing to grab it and disengage, but I never had any trouble with it on my first machine.
I have a lever style now, just grab and lift up and down to engage-disengage, and I do like it.  But again, don't select a machine solely for this by any means.  
**Whatever machine you get, test the ability to engage and disengage if you can.  They aren't often broken, but it is one of the few go--no-go types of things.

Please ask me to clarify if I have rambled, or if any of the above observations specifically interest or concern you.


Bernie


----------



## woodtickgreg (Jan 3, 2014)

All good advise Bernie, well said. And nope I don't have any problems with my single tumbler gear box or my star clutch, in fact I like having the little shelf to put stuff on when turning. I do like the mass of my cast iron floor model, and I did seek out a lathe with the large spindle bore. All good points Bernie.


----------



## itsme_Bernie (Jan 3, 2014)

That is what I like about the shelf!  Hah hah!  That is only, single gripe with my 1965 double tumbler!!   I insist on trying to store two oil bottles up there and keep knocking them down!   

Hah hah 

Bernie


----------



## itsme_Bernie (Jan 4, 2014)

Oh- I forgot to mention to absolutely double check every tooth inside the headstock belt cover- bull gear, and the back gear..  If you want a plug and play machine, this is a deal breaker for you, if teeth are missing.  

Also, check to see if the spindle oil cups are pretty full.  These act like a sight-glass, showing the internal oil level of a small reservoir inside the headstock.   There are wicks that feed up to the bottom of the spindle.

Bernie


----------



## Stanshire (Jan 4, 2014)

Bernie
thanks. Very helpful as far as identifying differences.
I had read the klunker article a few days ago. Also useful.


----------

