# Gap Tooth Repair



## matthewsx (Jul 29, 2020)

My new to me Bolton 13x40 has a gap tooth.




This piece fell off during transport but I was able to recover it from the freeway rush hour traffic.





The lathe was dropped on it's face prior to me getting it and the crack wasn't obvious when I went to inspect it. So, seeing that this isn't the worlds best machine to begin with I figure I'll just try to reattach it from where it came off. Thoughts so far are to mount a thick steel plate to the front of the bed and this piece with bolts and maybe add some strong epoxy once I've got it lined up well.

But I'm open to suggestions.

John


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## markba633csi (Jul 30, 2020)

The way I would probably approach it would be to clean the parts thoroughly, epoxy them back together while fitted in place on the lathe, then remove it and add some type of reinforcing plate across the break, after milling a flat area and drilling some new holes.  Then epoxy and bolts.  Don't try brazing or it will warp like crazy and you'll never get it to fit again.  Cold repair only.
-Mark


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## matthewsx (Jul 30, 2020)

I’m hesitant to remove what’s left of the gap as it seem well aligned and already glued in there by some kind of filler material.
Also my mill is just a little thing that isn’t really up to working with something like this. 

John


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## ErichKeane (Jul 30, 2020)

Wow, amazing that you were able to find the thing!  Thats great news!  

I more or less agree with Mark.  

I'd definitely start by drying to epoxy it together, avoiding getting any on the bolts.  I think you DO need to remove the other side, otherwise you're not going to get a good mount for a plate.  I don't think you need to mill a flat, you should be able to do it with a set of files, though it'll take way longer.  Then, just take a plate of mild steel (top and bottom maybe?)and bolt it in.

Alternatively, there are devices known as 'stitch' kits, its basically a piece of metal shaped with a bunch of bulbus shapes, that you then hammer into a bunch of drilled holes.  For a full break, you have to do something like ~14 seconds here: 




See this image for an explaination: https://www.metalockinternational.org/metalock-onsite-stitch.html

The nice part is the kits have a drilling guide, so you can do this with just a hand drill.


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## ErichKeane (Jul 30, 2020)

Some additional info on lock-n-stitch:

They refuse to list prices on their website, but: http://castingrepair.locknstitch.com/viewitems/lock-kits-2/lock-kits#
for the cross-stitch kit.  You can then use the pin kits: http://castingrepair.locknstitch.com/viewitems/l-series-pin-mini-kits-2/l-series-pin-mini-kits
For the areas in between.


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## matthewsx (Jul 30, 2020)

ErichKeane said:


> Some additional info on lock-n-stitch:
> 
> They refuse to list prices on their website, but: http://castingrepair.locknstitch.com/viewitems/lock-kits-2/lock-kits#
> for the cross-stitch kit.  You can then use the pin kits: http://castingrepair.locknstitch.com/viewitems/l-series-pin-mini-kits-2/l-series-pin-mini-kits
> For the areas in between.


Looks interesting, one problem I see is there’s not enough flat area on top of the smaller piece.

john


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## ErichKeane (Jul 30, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> Looks interesting, one problem I see is there’s not enough flat area on top of the smaller piece.
> 
> john


Maybe?  I cannot really tell.  First, no reason that couldn't be flattened a little.  Second, the smallest lock-n-stitch is only 1 inch long.  Presumably based on the design you could get away with < 1/2" on each side.

That said, if he's willing to break up the body filler on the other side, the right answer is likely to pull that out and do whatever repair you'd need like this from the bottom.

ETA: Just after posting that, I saw this: http://castingrepair.locknstitch.com/viewitems/l10-l15-5-locks/l15-5-locks

Looks like their shortest one is .793".  So ~.400/side?  Maybe a little more doable?


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## Cooter Brown (Jul 30, 2020)

Clamp a block in the middle and braze it back together.....


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## pontiac428 (Jul 30, 2020)

I support the cold repair.  J-B Weld has worked wonders for me.  I broke a bolt flange off a carburetor that I repaired with J-B, which was a weak cantilevered joint, and I daily-drove that pickup for 15 more years without incident.  In terms of cross-section, that was a tiny repair compared to yours, so I imagine that would be strong enough for any forces it sees on the ways.  Sometimes the simple solution is a good one, but I do understand if you don't want to use glue as a permanent repair on your lathe bed.

I think the most correct repair would be brazing, but this casting is a really poor candidate for that.  Re-grinding or scraping the gap piece would certainly be necessary.  It might be worth it to re-manufacture the part from a single piece of steel if you've got to do it, since you'll be doing an equal amount of fitting as you would with the hot work option.


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## matthewsx (Jul 30, 2020)

As a sailor I have a lot of respect for modern epoxy, if it doesn't work the worst that will happen is I have a lot of scraping grinding and sanding to get back to the original metal. I think a call to the Gougeon Brothers might be in line here, their West System products haven't failed me yet.

John


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## pontiac428 (Jul 30, 2020)

Oh, and I forgot to say that it was really epic that you went back and found your missing piece.  The winds were not in your favor, yet here you are, irreplaceable part in hand.  I'm sure there is a story there!


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## matthewsx (Jul 30, 2020)

pontiac428 said:


> Oh, and I forgot to say that it was really epic that you went back and found your missing piece.  The winds were not in your favor, yet here you are, irreplaceable part in hand.  I'm sure there is a story there!


Only two lanes of rush hour traffic on the 101 south of Gilroy


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## Cooter Brown (Jul 30, 2020)

Drill holes in both sides, bolt them together and make tube spacers for the screws the are exactly the right length......lol


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## Superburban (Jul 31, 2020)

I think we would all like the story of how you knew where to look, and how you retrieved the part.

Another idea, is maybe fabricate a few costum pieces that span from side to side, and have a bolt go through the walls, into the pieces.


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## matthewsx (Jul 31, 2020)

Superburban said:


> I think we would all like the story of how you knew where to look, and how you retrieved the part.
> 
> Another idea, is maybe fabricate a few costum pieces that span from side to side, and have a bolt go through the walls, into the pieces.



I'm liking this idea, maybe just one big hunk of metal to fit....

So, when towing something like this I'm super focused on the load and I heard something hit the trailer maybe. I looked in my mirror and saw something bouncing down the road so I pulled over. Fortunately it was at a very good place, @Mtnmac was behind me and saw it too, we figured it was just something kicked up from the road so I checked the tie-downs and we continued onward. It wasn't until we got to my house that I noticed the missing piece. The next day I drove back up to Gilroy and took the same route until I got to where I had pulled over, after checking the shoulder I crossed over to the median and started back towards where I thought it probably would be and fortunately there it was right on the edge of the highway.

Now to put it back into place, I wonder if @Richard King 2 has ever dealt wit something like this.

John


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## Mtnmac (Jul 31, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> I'm liking this idea, maybe just one big hunk of metal to fit....
> 
> So, when towing something like this I'm super focused on the load and I heard something hit the trailer maybe. I looked in my mirror and saw something bouncing down the road so I pulled over. Fortunately it was at a very good place, @Mtnmac was behind me and saw it too, we figured it was just something kicked up from the road so I checked the tie-downs and we continued onward. It wasn't until we got to my house that I noticed the missing piece. The next day I drove back up to Gilroy and took the same route until I got to where I had pulled over, after checking the shoulder I crossed over to the median and started back towards where I thought it probably would be and fortunately there it was right on the edge of the highway.
> 
> ...


It actually was the best possible outcome when dropping a 3 lb. chunk of cast iron off the lathe strapped to the trailer you are towing.  No accidents, no insurance claims, no injuries, and you recover the part!  We examined the lathe closely after it was strapped down.  I looked for things that might fall off, but it never occurred to me that the gap itself might be loose.


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## matthewsx (Aug 16, 2020)

So, looking closer at my carriage and saddle I noticed there are two pieces which hold the saddle down to the ways, one of them is broken.




When I look at the available space under there I can't see any reason why this part couldn't run the full length of the saddle and bolt to either end like the original pieces did.




You can see the L shaped piece bolts to the saddle and rides up under the lip of the bed above the rack. If I did this then the saddle would be supported top and bottom of the front way and should hold secure even without the part of the gap which broke off.




Back of the saddle has a single piece with a gib for adjustment.

Is there any reason not to do this? I need to replace the broken part anyway so the worst possible outcome I see is just cutting it down to work as originally designed. The piece is cast iron but there shouldn't be a problem with making it from steel or even brass. It could also be two pieces that bolt together so it could be shimmed for an exact fit. Thoughts?


John


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## Superburban (Aug 16, 2020)

I would try the full length. If a problem does arise, you can always cut it in half.


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