# Corona-Just My Thoughts Only



## horty (Oct 26, 2020)

Hi, been gone for awhile, needed to get away, sometimes I think why I live in ND, its embarrassing to tell people where I'm from because of the increase of virus in ND.
I know it started at the sturgis rally, a friend of mine was there from Nebraska, he has the virus, he told me about 2% of the people there were wearing masks, this macho crap is going to cause a lot of deaths... thousands of people will die, and it really pisses me off that people can be so stupid..

I'm not in a good mood today, my wife has been fighting colon and lung cancer for 2 years, and I will be damned if I will bring this virus home to her, If I did my life would end to..Its very stressful to go grocery shopping and see all these idiots strutting around like nothing is going on in our country..and my thoughts of spreading it to family and friends... I wear my mask when ever I leave and go anywhere, I wash my hands, arms,face every time I come back.

Was at walmart this morning to pick up some frozen food, I'm walking done the Isle and wanting to get into the big door to get my stuff, Nut case is standing there hacking, coughing in his hands and grabbing the handles looking at the frozen food.. I left with nothing and flushed my hands with alcohol that I carry in my pickup.

Use to have friends and family out to do grilling, have some beer, that stopped along time ago, no one evens call anymore because I chase them away, If they don't understand the seriousness of this virus, I dont want them here.

Just need to do some venting, and I pray that no one else will die, but thats not the case, so all I can do Is hope for the best and take care of my wife and myself.. and those that get sick and are laying there not being able to breath like they are suffocating will think about how stupid it was not to wear a mask.

Tim


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## MrWhoopee (Oct 26, 2020)

Tim, I share your feelings. The mentality here in my part of Northern California is the same. My wife works as a phlebotomist in a women's clinic, so she has to touch multiple pregnant women each day. The office has not been taking the pandemic seriously, with little to no measures being taken until last week when the county health department threatened to shut them down. The staff is still only wearing masks when they think someone is watching. Given my continual risk of exposure, I am no longer going into my client's homes, making it much more difficult to work. I am astounded and extremely disheartened at the level of denial, selfishness and outright stupidity that is all around me. I have lost all respect for people who used to be my friends.

All we can do is take care of our own, set a good example and pray we make it out the other side.

edit: I forgot to mention that we are doing our grocery shopping online at Walmart. I then go down to the store and they bring the groceries out and put them in the car. I'm not allowed in most stores.


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## markba633csi (Oct 26, 2020)

Sorry to hear about your wife.  I understand your frustration totally. Times like this you find out who your real friends are. Us, for example
-Mark


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## jbobb1 (Oct 26, 2020)

I feel you anger Tim. We have the same level of ignorance here. Don't think it'll go away either. 
As far as your so called friends go, let it be their problem and not yours, you have enough on your plate. Anybody with any compassion should be understanding. I know I would be. 
My thoughts are with you and your wife.


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## matthewsx (Oct 26, 2020)

My mom is 90 and I take care of her. I just flew back to Elk Rapids to get things here ready for winter. So far most seem to be wearing masks and likewise in Santa Cruz.

The danger is very real no matter where you live or what you think. Masks are not comfortable and my hands are even drier than normal with all the sanitizer and washing but this is the best we have for now.

I would encourage you to report businesses that don’t follow state or local orders to your county health department. They may not have enough resources but at least knowing where to look might help.

Stay safe out there.

John


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## C-Bag (Oct 26, 2020)

I’m so sorry Tim, my heart goes out to you and your wife.

We have taken care of so many family members and the last was my dad in May. He was 90 and was just done. I was glad he didn’t have to go through contracting Covid on top of everything else. It’s very apparent to anybody not suffering from RectalCranial Inversion that masks work along with distancing and sanitation practices. There is an interesting map overlay on WeatherUnderground for Covid by county, # of cases and deaths. The counties around us, especially to the east have 33,000 cases and 420 dead where we have 4,000 cases and 31 dead. We are a tourist spot and every time there is a holiday or a spike in tourists there is a corresponding spike in cases 5-15days later here. These counties are the heart of these folks who think it’s all a hoax, fake news, and demand their freedom from logic or sanity. Unfortunately I have several family members who buy into that. Needless to say we aren’t doing Thanksgiving, or Christmas get togethers any time soon.

Be safe.


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## Scra99tch (Oct 26, 2020)

I hear you also.  The dynamic of watching peoples behaviors evolve is fascinating to me.  Not to mention how polarization has played a critical fatal effect on how we can tackle problems is mind blowing.  

All it takes is to know someone close who has gotten it and suffered through it or worse yet passed to know how they will deal with it from then on.  

We can only take the time to learn how some countries are keeping it in check, its those countries who have had these scares before i.e. SARS that have been fairly well on top of it.


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## Tozguy (Oct 26, 2020)

Well both my wife and I are following the guidelines and doing even more than the recommendations when possible. Count us in for the long haul. But thank God for the internet, her piano and my workshop.
Also glad to have you folks to chat with.

Some persons are really hurting even if they don't have the virus. Time will tell how all this shakes out.


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## markba633csi (Oct 26, 2020)

My Mom checked out last year at age 93. I'm glad she missed this little party- she had a full life without killer microbes to deal with. 
-Mark


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## Al 1 (Oct 26, 2020)

Good health to all,   Stay safe. Please.   Al


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## eugene13 (Oct 26, 2020)

We had a family reunion planned for last June, with people coming from California, Georgia and Washington, my wife told them all to stay home, I'm so proud of her, she has to deal with some hurt feelings from the non-believers, but I think she saved our lives.


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## kb58 (Oct 26, 2020)

When I hear or read about people not wearing masks, in every case, I also hear terms like "freedom", "patriot", and even God. What I'd like to say to all these religious, freedom-loving, patriots is, "The virus can't hear you, but senses that you're a willing host."  It doesn't give me much faith in humanity when we're this dumb, selfish, and delusional.


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## FOMOGO (Oct 26, 2020)

Basically comes down to " No cure for stupid ". Just hard to fathom how much of it there is. Mike


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## Aukai (Oct 26, 2020)

The generation who got ass whoopings, and who better have had a foot on the front porch when the street lights came on, is talking to the generation who got time outs, and a trophy for just participating.


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## pontiac428 (Oct 26, 2020)

Protect the freedom to be ignorant, inconsiderate, and potentially lethal at all costs.  One thing I will never understand is how wearing a mask to protect your fellow citizens (one possibility of what Jesus meant by "love one another") is now an affront to freedom, religion, and liberty.  Here are some facts:  Patriotism isn't necessary for survival.  Patriotism is not needed for a nation to thrive.  Patriotism isn't needed as a justification of right from wrong.  Patriotism, as it's being packaged and sold today, boils down to the right to act like a complete asswipe in public; to endanger your family and friends, in the name of god and country.  Patriotism has become something very damaging, unhealthy, and nearly as psychotic as the religions people invoke it to protect.  I love my country, even if it hurts or becomes embarrassing, but don't call me a patriot.  I don't believe in unconditional love.  It's a 2-way street, you have to do right to live in the world you want to live in.  If you don't, then you earn the consequences.  You can wave the flag all you want, but if you f-word your sister, you're a sister-effer and deserve to go to hell in my book.

Edit:  And if you rush out to the chinese dollar store to buy a flag to fly on your pickup truck, then congratulations! You've done the absolute minimum to show you care about your country and the people around you.


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## coherent (Oct 26, 2020)

I feel a lot of the same anger already expressed. My wife has also had some serious auto immune health issues and is high risk. I've had to hold my tongue a number of times... I imagine it would come to blows if I said what I'm feeling... big signs on the doors... "face covering or masks required for entry" and half the folks inside aren't wearing one. Store owners have no legal recourse in Arizona. I don't care if folks have no regard for their own health, but the sad part is they have no regard for others which is the whole purpose of wearing a mask. I just keep hoping that they come out with an effective vaccine soon. I wish no one ill will, but the folks not wearing masks are the same ones who will most likely decline getting the vaccine. Justice will likely prevail.


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## matthewsx (Oct 26, 2020)

I was taught that freedom goes hand in hand with responsibility.


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## ericc (Oct 26, 2020)

Hey fellas.  Lighten up.  I have a true story from this weekend.  It brought a smile to my face.

I went to a garage sale that featured tools.  The ad said all shoppers had to wear a mask.  There was this old man sorting through the tools, basically making a spectacle of himself, and not wearing a mask.  After a while, I noticed that some people were making some comments about him.  I thought of confronting him, but decided to move to another area and keep a distance.  I sort of forgot all this and was suddenly rudely interrupted by a loud whirring noise and a cloud of smoke.  It was the old man, and he was shouting.  One of the sellers started chuckling and said that he must have activated the old manual crop duster, and it still had insecticide inside it.  I think everybody was glad they had masks on, since that stuff burned, even through the mask.  The old man appeared to have gotten quite a faceful of it.  There were two young ladies laughing it up.  One said, "OMG, I wish I got a video of that; it would have sooo gone on YouTube."  Anyway, I got a "bee smoker" and a nice tap wrench.  Although I dislike deriving any sort of pleasure out of others' misfortunes, this was admittedly a little poetic.


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## middle.road (Oct 26, 2020)

Remember when shopping for groceries was enjoyable and not a chore?
We wear masks to protect others when out, why can't others understand and fathom this?
Those who chose not to wear a mask are threatening our health, no different than threatening with a weapon. 
Let's just try it for a couple of months and see what happens. No different than wearing a seat belt or stopping at stop signs.

I don't understand the mentality at all. As stated above, 'You can't fix STUPID', but as the Wife says, "can you club it?"...
I'm going to go back to wearing my 3M respirator when I have to go out.

How many stories of 'I was wrong about this virus, and now...' have to be told before people get the bloody message?

Stay safe everyone.


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## C-Bag (Oct 26, 2020)

People make fun of California, but every establishment has a sign at the door, “No shirt, no shoes, no service” ” and we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone”. I’ve also pointed out a knot head or two if masks don’t work if you were having surgery would you care if the surgeon wore a mask? I would. But I see YouTube after another of “Karen’s” exerting their ”rights”. The most annoying is it’s empowered these bozo’s to wear just these silly face shields or their bandanna on their neck or just over their mouth. I often wonder if they consciously taking themselves out of the gene pool or if like so many drunk drivers they never get hurt while taking out innocents.


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## vtcnc (Oct 27, 2020)

Hi guys, I locked the thread overnight because (maybe I'm reading too much into it) some of the replies read like they were skirting the political/religious/social edges of commentary that ultimately ends in a thread getting locked. It was late, maybe I shouldn't read threads half asleep...

I'm unlocking it because I think my actions were a bit premature. I think the OP @horty was on the mark with venting about how COVID is affecting him and his family directly without getting into too much social commentary while keeping well clear of any politics. I was worried that the subsequent replies would prompt further political discussions and take the discussion into the ditch.

Well, I've had two cups of coffee and came to my senses. Unlocked. Keep it between the guard rails please.


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## pontiac428 (Oct 27, 2020)

@vtcnc, I have no problem with you locking it, and I recognize my part in bringing it to the brink of acceptability for our site.  If nothing else, I learned how quickly things can get spun up and escalate.  Everybody is feeling tension from goings on that our outside the sphere of individual control, which is really just putting a pre heat on our thoughts at this time.  I feel that the no politics policy keeps this site focused on what unites us, rather on what divides us.  Cheers!


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## Janderso (Oct 27, 2020)

I’ll say one thing.
You can’t fix stupid 
I love you guys!


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## GunsOfNavarone (Oct 27, 2020)

I'm in the same boat. I see the disrespect from people..even knowing my wife is fighting 2 kinds of cancer. I dislike people...alot. (but not everyone!)


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## DavidR8 (Oct 27, 2020)

Here in my corner of Canada were experiencing a bit of a second wave. 
Thanksgiving seems to have been an inflection point and people gathered in larger than usual numbers. 

So now we’re down to gatherings of six people. But we don’t have mandatory mask rules. Yet. 

I have to hand it to my fellow citizens who are wearing masks. I went out on the weekend and forgot my mask. I felt like a pariah when I got out of my truck so I went back home and got one. 

My partner has been tested twice, my stepson once. 
All negative thank goodness. 
I’m tired of it, my partner is tired of it and the kids are tired of it. We’re predicting potentially another two years of protective measures. 
Sigh.

If you want to see grace under pressure Google “Dr Bonnie Henry” and watch some of her news conferences. She’s our Provincial Health Officer and is simply amazing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## francist (Oct 27, 2020)

We’ve been masked at my workplace since March, and when we re-opened in June we made it a condition for anyone entering. No mask or medical reason to not wear one? Sorry, you’re not coming in.

I take my temperature twice a day and chart it, I make all my staff sanitize our building at the beginning and end of each day and sign that they’ve done it. And we just issued layoff notices to 16 of 22 employees last week. Come January we will try to carry on for as long as we can with a skeleton team of six.

I’ve been at my workplace for 33 years and have never seen anything remotely close to this.

-frank


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## erikmannie (Oct 27, 2020)

I am very sorry to hear about your wife’s health problems.

I have been scared out of my wits since the middle of March because I live with my VERY sweet 86-year-old mother-in-law. The last thing I would want in this world is to cause her to get coronavirus.


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## mmcmdl (Oct 28, 2020)

We just got an alert an hour ago that a few visitors from our sister plant in Florida tested positive while re-entering from our other plant here in Md . We've been masked up since this all started also and have only had a few cases here , none starting from the company itself .


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## Cooter Brown (Oct 28, 2020)

.


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## erikmannie (Oct 28, 2020)

Back in April, the first of 25 of my coworkers got it, and I stayed home for 5 weeks.

After that, I was out of sick days and vacation days, so I had to go back to work and open myself up to exposure because my bills weren’t going to pay themselves!

Everybody is sure going to be glad when this is all over. Stay safe, everybody!


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## Cooter Brown (Oct 28, 2020)

I know a guy that tested positive, he still went to work and hung out with hundreds of people and no one else caught anything from him......


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## vtcnc (Oct 28, 2020)

Cooter Brown said:


> I know a guy that tested positive, he still went to work and hung out with hundreds of people and no one else caught anything from him......


....and that is what we like to call, "luck"


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## middle.road (Oct 28, 2020)

vtcnc said:


> ....and that is what we like to call, "luck"


And perhaps a 'False Positive'.


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## vtcnc (Oct 28, 2020)

middle.road said:


> And perhaps a 'False Positive'.


yes, or that. lol.


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## Janderso (Oct 28, 2020)

)


Cooter Brown said:


> I know a guy that tested positive, he still went to work and hung out with hundreds of people and no one else caught anything from him......


I don't know what to think about this.
On the one hand, the false positives are quite high. So, was he in fact infected?
I know of an employee whos family got together on a weekend. By the following weekend everyone was sick. His 67 year old father was in intensive care for a week. He is still in the hospital after 5 weeks but doing better. The rest of the family got better within 7-10 days.
That's pretty contagious in my book.

I wish we knew the truth. The numbers are all over the map. Some say it's not a big deal, others are scared to death of this virus. 
It's the first time the world was shut down in my 63 years.


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## pontiac428 (Oct 28, 2020)

vtcnc said:


> ....and that is what we like to call, "luck"


And by some legal standards, it's called mayhem.


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## middle.road (Oct 28, 2020)

Talked with a buddy back up in Illinois this past weekend.
He's lost three family members since August. None had pre-existing medical conditions.
Two were in their 60s, one in his late 50s. And they were spread out over the country.
One in IL, one in KS, and one in CA. Two cousins and an uncle.
The uncle in CA was a sad story, his children hadn't heard from him for a couple of days so they asked the sheriff to do a welfare check.
They found him passed in his home, autopsy show covid and respiratory, not heart related. 
He was retired and his passion was riding bikes, he had gone to a gathering a week or so before. . .


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## FOMOGO (Oct 28, 2020)

The virus is  lot like Vegas. You get lucky once in a while, some more than others, but the house always wins in the end. Mike


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## lis2323 (Oct 28, 2020)

Cooter Brown said:


> I know a guy that tested positive, he still went to work and hung out with hundreds of people and no one else caught anything from him......



So let me get this straight. 

Regardless of his personal opinions of the seriousness of COVID, this fellow who KNOWINGLY tested positive, proceeded to deliberately come in contact with others. 

This is just ignorant. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## erikmannie (Oct 28, 2020)

Cooter Brown said:


> I know a guy that tested positive, he still went to work and hung out with hundreds of people and no one else caught anything from him......



So no quarantine period.


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## mksj (Oct 28, 2020)

Cooter Brown said:


> I know a guy that tested positive, he still went to work and hung out with hundreds of people and no one else caught anything from him......



There are various types of Corona virus testing kits, unfortunately the most common is looking at an anti-body to the Corona virus, which is often either delayed or is seen post infection. The antibody testing kits are also quite variable in their results. The PCR testing is much more specific, but results can take days if not weeks to come back, there is also antigen testing kits. One needs to factor in the amount of viral load present in an individual that factors into transmission, i.e. there needs to be a high enough level and volume (route) to transmit the virus, virus load peaks early on in the infection process and will subside as one mounts an antibody response.  I saw this with HIV when I treated patients, those that were treated with low  or undetectable levels of virus had lower risk of infecting others. It is not uncommon for one to test positive to the Corona virus and be completely asymptomatic, but it also reflects that the individual's immune system responded to the virus and that viral loads were low. There are many factors involved in the transmission and outcomes, but this is not a seasonal event, and the effectiveness of the vaccines are unknown and at this point unproven as to their effectiveness. I still consult for a few of the companies involved in these vaccine developments/clinical trials. Will I get the Corona vaccine when it becomes available, most likely yes, but I do not take annual flu shots because I had paralysis from it in the past.

To say that out of 100's of people no one caught the virus, is suspect if there was no contact tracing and 2-3 week follow-up on all those individuals. There are very well documented cases of either a single individual or an event/celebration with mass transmission and often fatal outcomes. The issue is it is a bit like Russian roulette and the odds that one may have a lethal outcome increase with inter-current health issues and age. Other countries that have imposed strict measures to contain the virus such as Hong Kong, have had very low levels of transmission while maintaining a functional economy.  My wife has family in HK and Macau, one of which is a medical doctor there.


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## vtcnc (Oct 28, 2020)

mksj said:


> <>"I saw this..."<>


Given that you have professional medical experience - can you point to an online, non-governmental (edit: and no cable or social media) source of information that can be trusted for accuracy and reliability? I have been referring to the John Hopkins site and Worldometer. Any other suggestions?


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## Janderso (Oct 28, 2020)

What would happen to the virus if it couldn't find a new host?
In other words, All of us stayed in doors in our shops for two weeks.
I would be willing to do it!!
I have beer in the frig.


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## vtcnc (Oct 28, 2020)

Janderso said:


> What would happen to the virus if it couldn't find a new host?
> In other words, All of us stayed in doors in our shops for two weeks.
> I would be willing to do it!!
> I have beer in the frig.


Then the world would have more machinists per capita. Sounds like a plan towards a better world!


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## kb58 (Oct 28, 2020)

I work for a large company (~10,000) that has buildings scattered around the world. We're up to 145 cases where a building needed disinfection because "someone" was infected. The problem is, the current health laws make this particular illness a real problem because:
1. You "could" ask the infected person to name every room they were in and every person they were around, and hope they remember.
2. Or, you "could" send out a company-wide email saying that if you were in contact with this person, get checked out.

Which of the above would would be more reliable? #2, right? only that's illegal. So by design, we're in a situation where infected people forgetting who they talked to could have passed it on, and the persons near them have no idea. Great.


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## kb58 (Oct 28, 2020)

Janderso said:


> What would happen to the virus if it couldn't find a new host?
> In other words, All of us stayed in doors in our shops for two weeks.
> I would be willing to do it!!
> I have beer in the frig.


Oh I've said the same thing, lock down EVERYTHING for two weeks, but aside from the freedom and rights thing, it realistically can't work. Are you going to shut off power and water, since no one's at the control consoles? Are you going to close the hospitals? If hospitals stay open, how does a patient get there, by car? What if they need gas, or their car breaks down? There are some infrastructures that just can't be closed. That said, one approach would be for volunteers to sign up to live at their jobs for 2 weeks, which can work as long as they don't interact with anyone else.

This all assumes that people are willing to work together for the greater good. In some countries, the government can force it to happen, but here I fear it can't/won't because people are way into just themselves, never mind the aforementioned freedom and rights claims.


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## vtcnc (Oct 28, 2020)

kb58 said:


> Oh I've said the same thing, lock down EVERYTHING for two weeks, but aside from the freedom and rights thing, it realistically can't work. Are you going to shut off power and water, since no one's at the control consoles? Are you going to close the hospitals? If hospitals stay open, how does a patient get there, by car? What if they need gas, or their car breaks down? There are some infrastructures that just can't be closed. That said, one approach would be for volunteers to sign up to live at their jobs for 2 weeks, which can work as long as they don't interact with anyone else.
> 
> This all assumes that people are willing to work together for the greater good. In some countries, the government can force it to happen, but here I fear it can't/won't because people are way into just themselves, never mind the aforementioned freedom and rights claims.


Well, I TOTALLY expect a littany of "what-about-isms" after I say this, but this is essentially what Vermont did back in March and April. Let me beat all of you to the punch - yes...we are a small rural state without a metropolitan area larger than 50,000 people, yes...there are less than 1M people in the state, yes...we are not as reliant on public transportation and public services as larger metropolitan areas are...keep 'em coming!

HOWEVER, Vermont's early COVID approach is an excellent model of what COULD be done RIGHT NOW given that the majority of the spread seems to be in rural America. One of the reasons we are seeing an uptick in cases right now is because people are travelling to Vermont to either get away, college has return and in general, the pressure to "re-open" which is causing all kinds of debate right now within the state.

None of this was perfectly executed, perfectly planned, etc., and there were definitely some fumbles - but for the most part - staying home for a month worked for us if you base success on all current measures.


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## Janderso (Oct 28, 2020)

lis2323 said:


> this fellow who KNOWINGLY tested positive, proceeded to deliberately come in contact with others.
> 
> This is just ignorant.


Or criminal.


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## Janderso (Oct 28, 2020)

vtcnc said:


> One of the reasons we are seeing an uptick in cases right now is because people are travelling to Vermont


The leafers.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Oct 28, 2020)

Janderso said:


> What would happen to the virus if it couldn't find a new host?
> In other words, All of us stayed in doors in our shops for two weeks.
> I would be willing to do it!!
> I have beer in the frig.


I thought the same think during the heart of the lockdown...wouldn't it just run it course? People would get it, pass it or sadly, die. Wouldn't it just die off? There is something that we are obviously missing here. This thing isn't going away. The only way to get back to our normal is a vaccine. Now I AM NOT an advocate for vaccines, I'm just throwing out a scenario.


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## higgite (Oct 28, 2020)

Janderso said:


> What would happen to the virus if it couldn't find a new host?
> In other words, All of us stayed in doors in our shops for two weeks.
> I would be willing to do it!!
> I have beer in the frig.


I'll trade you a roll of toilet paper for a case, no, make that 2 cases of beer.

Tom


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## Janderso (Oct 28, 2020)

higgite said:


> I'll trade you a roll of toilet paper for a case, no, make that 2 cases of beer.
> 
> Tom


The real currency, beer, ammo, food, guns, generators, fuel,


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## erikmannie (Oct 29, 2020)

Janderso said:


> What would happen to the virus if it couldn't find a new host?
> In other words, All of us stayed in doors in our shops for two weeks.
> I would be willing to do it!!
> I have beer in the frig.



Where do we sign up to stay in our shop for two weeks?


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## Aaron_W (Oct 29, 2020)

Janderso said:


> It's the first time the world was shut down in my 63 years.



This is the part for me that says this is different. If it were just here shutting down then there might be a point to the over-hype or conspiracy theories, but nearly every country is reacting in a similar way. You rarely see such agreement, so either this is more serious than the other epidemics in my lifetime, or it is the best organized conspiracy in the history of conspiracies.


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## mmcmdl (Oct 29, 2020)

Janderso said:


> What would happen to the virus if it couldn't find a new host?
> In other words, All of us stayed in doors in our shops for two weeks.
> I would be willing to do it!!
> I have beer in the frig.





erikmannie said:


> Where do we sign up to stay in our shop for two weeks?



You mean ............where do we sign up to stay two weeks in Jeff's shop !


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## Aukai (Oct 29, 2020)

This is a quote I found online about covid by countries, I guess by culture Japan is more compliant with authority in general. They are at the bottom of the graphs, and were one of the first countries to be infected. They were requested not to gather. You can make your own inferences from the quote.

While people were not forced to remain at home, they did in general. The citizens of Japan have complied with authority from the very beginning of the pandemic.


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## ericc (Oct 29, 2020)

Interestingly enough, the computer modeling says that the virus would disappear if everybody isolated for two weeks.  This is an undergraduate lower division computer science assignment.  That is a silly question, however.  Didn't some famous politician say something like if pigs had wings they could fly -- I don't answer hypothetical questions. (Sorry, politics, I'll stop there, although that quote is a favorite of scientists).  The more interesting question is what happens if there is a slight imperfection in the isolation.  Surprisingly, it doesn't take much.  A very tiny amount of leakage insures that the virus does not die out, and you get a very quiet and almost unnoticed epidemic with a very flat morbidity/mortality curve.  Nonetheless, the area under the curve ends up being your entire population, and you have just succeeded in stretching out the duration of the epidemic without significantly reducing the number of casualties.  If you can stretch it out long enough, the virus can mutate so that you have to start the whole process again.  This is an upper division computer science homework problem.  How to prevent the above gloomy scenario from occurring is a doctoral level or higher problem, and it is probably not just in computer science.


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## kb58 (Oct 29, 2020)

I've had the same thought, that the longer we keep bumbling about, the more time it gives the virus to mutate, which they always do, perhaps ending up with a variant much more deadly, like happened in late 1917 (or was it 1918). Or, maybe it'll change into something harmless and just goes away. I'm pretty much resigned to thinking that we'll all get it one way or another. Wearing masks slows the spread but doesn't stop it, in order to not overload the medical services, which is a very worthwhile effort.


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## aliva (Oct 29, 2020)

We've been lucky in our area. Our health district covers about 180,000 people, so far only 122 positive cases, and only 4 hospitalized.
An hour ago on the news 2 American's from Pennsylvania have been charged under the quarantine act for not self isolating for 14 days. Both were fined $1000.00 plus costs and may be escorted back to the U.S. They were only a hours drive from me. I'm not bashing Americans as we have Canadians who have done the same.  These people were lucky as the max fine under the act is $750,000 and 1 year prison time.


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## vtcnc (Oct 29, 2020)

ericc said:


> Interestingly enough, the computer modeling says that the virus would disappear if everybody isolated for two weeks.  This is an undergraduate lower division computer science assignment.


I could be wrong, very wrong, but the reason this is a "novel" virus is because it is a new virus we have NEVER seen and this also means that it is here to stay.


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## higgite (Oct 30, 2020)

If anyone has the technology, resources and wherewithal to completely eliminate Coronavirus from the face of the Earth, please put mosquitoes on your to-do list.

Tom


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## kb58 (Oct 30, 2020)

and fleas


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## Scra99tch (Oct 30, 2020)

kb58 said:


> and fleas


Dont forget the ticks


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## WCraig (Oct 30, 2020)

vtcnc said:


> I could be wrong, very wrong, but the reason this is a "novel" virus is because it is a new virus we have NEVER seen and this also means that it is here to stay.



The polio virus has been virtually extinguished in the western world through near-universal immunization (multiple doses).  I don't think anyone knows yet if a similar result is possible with Covid-19.  We can hope, though.









						Polio - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Craig


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## vtcnc (Oct 30, 2020)

WCraig said:


> The polio virus has been virtually extinguished in the western world through near-universal immunization (multiple doses).  I don't think anyone knows yet if a similar result is possible with Covid-19.  We can hope, though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right, yes, maybe I was trying to make a point indirectly, sorry. I understand the point about eradication through immunization and it is valid to think that through cooperation, science and public policy that (if the science works out) COVID could be handled like polio, small pox, etc. My point is that all of them still exist out in the wild and they don't go away - if they did magically disappear none of us would need vaccinations throughout our lifetimes for things like measles, mumps, rubella, influenza, etc.


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