# What do y'all think about this ?



## Bamban (Jun 17, 2017)

https://houston.craigslist.org/tls/6177054325.html

For Sale: 13" long bed South Bend lathe with taper attachment. I purchased this lathe 17 years ago with the hope of restoring it. When I was looking at these machines this was the best one I found. It is still in very good condition. I have made quite a few parts on it. If you go to Ebay you will see fully restored machines like this over $4k. This is classic American iron, and it sure feels like it. I purchased it from a gentleman who owned it for nearly thirty years, and said he purchased it from the original owner. It was never in a school. I recently bought a larger machine and no longer have room for this. Everything works, and the lead screw looks perfect. Some way wear close to the chuck as expected, but the scraping is still visible over half the bed length, and on the cross slide ways. It had a 3 phase motor when I bought it, so I replaced with a new fan cooled Century 1.5 HP single phase motor. So, it will run on standard household 220. I have a full set of Armstrong tool holders and rocker post, and I added a BXA quick change post with a set of tool holders. Tailstock is MT3 taper and a live center goes with it. 1-3/8" through Camlock spindle with 6" 4-jaw and 8" 3-jaw chuck included as well. 8 speeds 40-940 rpm and 48 standard thread pitches. I have the book and a scan of the original purchase order showing a manufacture date of 1956. Asking $1800. Text is best


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 17, 2017)

$1800 sounds a bit high, but if the lathe is well equipped and isn't worn i'd be inclined to make an offer.
13" is a good size lathe.
the taper attachment is worth 1/3 the purchase price alone!


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## Bamban (Jun 17, 2017)

He offered to deliver in my garage,  2 1/2 hours away for 1700.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 17, 2017)

Sounds like a pretty good deal!


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## mikey (Jun 17, 2017)

This would give me pause:* "Some way wear close to the chuck as expected, but the scraping is still visible over half the bed length, and on the cross slide ways."
*
The lathe might otherwise be in good condition but if there is significant wear in the ways near the chuck, which is where most of your work is done and is the reason the wear is there in the first place, then I would not pay for the privilege of assuming the seller's problem.


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## jsh (Jun 17, 2017)

I will say I don't even have enough hands on to be dangerous. 
I have read hundreds if not a thousand post on this type of subject. 
After hours of my questions to a couple of tool and die maker friends and teachers, the answer still comes up the same. 

What are you going to do with it?

Yes, that is a question, answering a question. 
Be it brand new in the crate, or a well cared for 50+ year old machine, each and everyone will have its quirks. 

First, I would darn sure want to see and hear it run. And, if you know ZERO ( as I do) you darn sure get some one that does know somthing about them to go along with you. 

It was about 1985ish since the last time I made any chips. I did not trust myself, so I bought a buddy supper to go with me. 

I would not jump at the first machine you run across, unless so advised. 
It seems used machines vary across the country on quality and availability. I searched for a long time with no luck except machines that were nothing more than parts. 

I paid what some considered a bit to a lot more than I should have for mine. Yet all involved thought it to be a good deal, local to me. 
Less than a week after I made my purchase I ran across what I had been looking for, an atlas. It looked to be in excellent shape. A closer look and it had issues. The more I looked the more problems I found. Zero tooling! Not even a laten tool post or a center. I offered them $500. They turned it down. I later found out that a gent gave them $2000 for it and he was several hour drive away. 
A month later I found the same lathe with a bunch of attachments, I imagine about everything offers for them. Gent wanted $1500 and would not budge on price. It had been in a damp environment with slight rust on all unpainted surfaces. 
I passed as I have projects and did not need another. 

Your description sounds like a fair deal to me, but I am a thousand miles away. 

Then $1700 delivered and set back up. Sounds even better. 
I was pushed away from a new lathe, a bit smaller and a bit more expensive.  I am pleased with my purchase, well cared for used and all 
Jeff


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## 4GSR (Jun 18, 2017)

Since the Craigslist ad has been pulled, I'm sure Bambam won't mind me posting the pictures of the lathe he purchased.  Hey, to get it delivered as part of the selling cost, I think he came out with a nice lathe.  Got to do something about that paint color!  My diaper changing days are well behind me, and I don't need anything to remind me of it! Sorry Bambam!

EDIT: I think the lighting has something to do with the color in the pictures.  One of the pictures shows the old gray South Bend used on their lathes.  Still, the more I look at the pictures, the better the lathe looks!


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## Bamban (Jun 18, 2017)

Got it moved in, rough leveled and made a few turning passes as we leveled. Loosened up the TS end mounting bolt, leveled it again and mase this last pass before calling it the day.


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## 4GSR (Jun 18, 2017)

A 61 year old lathe cut that straight???  That's not too shabby!!!   Sounds like a keeper to me.

And that 6-jaw set tru chuck was part of the deal, too?


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## Bamban (Jun 18, 2017)

Unfortunately, the 6J set thru is mine, it is just too big for my 1236, perfect for this 13.

I still have to do the final leveling, just rough leveled it to see what she can do. It is still on skates, but leveled good on the HS end and the mounting bolts on the TS side relaxed.

I am thinking about outrigger type base with levelers on 4 corners on the HS end , and 2 levelers on the TS side.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 18, 2017)

Wow, Bamban you really scored!
she sounded great.
i'm very happy for you, great acquisition!!!


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## Bamban (Jun 19, 2017)

Thank you all.

I will learn a lot from this machine.


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## Bamban (Jun 19, 2017)

Let it sit overnight, made a couple more turning pass at different feed rate, did not check the level. The whole system must have settled down somewhat, hockey pucks probably compressed a little from the weight.

When I get the outrigger done and 4 levelers under the underdrive housing  the level should be a lot more stable.


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## kvt (Jun 19, 2017)

each test is looking better.


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## 4GSR (Jun 20, 2017)

OK Bambam, you making me jealous.  You keep cutting those two tenths tapers!  I'm lucky if my lathe will cut within .002" in 10 inches!

Man! that is best Father's Day present anyone could ask for and get!

Thanks for sharing.

Ken


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## Bamban (Jun 20, 2017)

4gsr said:


> OK Bambam, you making me jealous.  You keep cutting those two tenths tapers!  I'm lucky if my lathe will cut within .002" in 10 inches!
> 
> Man! that is best Father's Day present anyone could ask for and get!
> 
> ...



Ken,

Thank you, it is indeed a surprise how well it cuts. The seller told me that it cut tenths across 12 inches once leveled. Of course I did not believe him till I did it myself and twice without touching anything. Last night I was testing the gearing by cutting different threads I normally do, to make sure I have the correct gears. All is well, however I came close in crashing into the chuck when I was testing 16 TPI and not using the back gear. The half nut lever did not want to release quickly that I had to quickly disengaged the belt to stop. My bad shoulders and limited range of motion I had a hard time to react quickly to push the power off switch in that arm behind the chuck. I am not sure if I like the location of the control switches reaching over a spinning chuck. The VFD will solve all that, I will mount the control boxes right there by the chip pan, that I can even activate the EMO with my thigh.


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## kvt (Jun 20, 2017)

Ya,   not sure I would want to reach over the chuck either.   NOt fun if something is going wrong.


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## Bamban (Jun 21, 2017)

She cleans up nicely, still in progress though as you can see the contrast with the uncleaned section. The TS end was shot with Flourescent white balance last night, HS side with ambient light with garage door open. The colors are close
	

		
			
		

		
	





Next up on the to do list is replace the cross slide lead screw and nut, just can't live with 0.080 back lash.


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## kvt (Jun 21, 2017)

It cut that good with that much play in the cross slide not bad. and the finish also looked good on the shots I saw.   Lucky you.     I keep looking for a deal like that but not finding it.  

Ken


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## 4GSR (Jun 21, 2017)

Bamban said:


> ..........
> 
> Next up on the to do list is replace the cross slide lead screw and nut, just can't live with 0.080 back lash.


I hope it's more like the nut being loose or a combination of that, worn screw, and the thrust bearing arrangement on the taper attachment.

I haven't looked lately, there was a guy selling the cross feed screw and nut, made properly, for the 13" SBL.  When I say made properly, the screw thread is made to a 4C tolerance and the nut is made snug to the screw.  Most of the guys out there are making the nut using a class 2G tap and lead screw material made to a 2G fit, which equals a lot of slop in a new nut and screw!  If you got a follower rest with the lathe, make your own.  I've always made mine when a new cross feed screw was needed.  If you decided to make your own, I have bearing bronze for the nut, I'm willing to share with you.


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## Bamban (Jun 21, 2017)

Thanks, Ken. I got a quote from Brian Miller for screw and nut. He claims the backlash on his set up, assuming all is well with the rest is around 0.003 to 0.006.

The first thing I did was fix the nut at the end of the screw by the taper attachment. The thrust washer was bottoming out on shaft shoulder, but not against the housing. I could literally push the screw back and forth. I machined a pocket in the washer so it goes over the shoulder and bear agains the housing. Polished the side of the washer. The backlash went from about a full rev down to 0.080.

I might take you up on the offer. Would the ACME rods from McMaster good enough?


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## scwhite (Jun 21, 2017)

Bamban said:


> Unfortunately, the 6J set thru is mine, it is just too big for my 1236, perfect for this 13.
> 
> I still have to do the final leveling, just rough leveled it to see what she can do. It is still on skates, but leveled good on the HS end and the mounting bolts on the TS side relaxed.
> 
> I am thinking about outrigger type base with levelers on 4 corners on the HS end , and 2 levelers on the TS side.


I think you got a great deal . It all looks good to me


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## 4GSR (Jun 22, 2017)

Bamban said:


> ...................
> I might take you up on the offer. Would the ACME rods from McMaster good enough?



It will probably be fine as long as you fit the nut to the thread.  If they have a 3C or 3G class fit, get it.  This class of fit will have a tighter pitch diameter on the thread that you will have on a class 2G thread.  You have .0154" of tolerance variation on a Class 2G thread.  Where on a class 3G thread, you have a tolerance variation of .0072".  Does not mean that you will have that much variation in a section of Acme all thread, but you could. (I based this on a 5/8"-8 pitch Acme thread.)   Need to check your cross feed screw and see if it is 5/8" OD or 11/16" OD.


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## Bamban (Jun 22, 2017)

Ken,

The threaded ACME rod is 2C.


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## 4GSR (Jun 22, 2017)

I rather it be a class 2C rather than 2G tolerance fit.  The "C" indicates that it is a "centralizing" fit thread.  The thread axis locates off of the OD of the male thread and minor diameter of the internal thread.  Where as the class 2G tolerance fit is a "general purpose" fit, which means, it has lots of slop in the clearances of the thread. 

Give it a try!  I might even offer to buy some of the left over of the all thread from you to use on my lathe later on.

Get me some overall dimensions of the nut and I'll get you a piece of bronze in the mail for you next week.

Ken


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## Bamban (Jun 22, 2017)

Ken,

Here is a nut on eBay quoted 4G. For the price for around 100 bucks combined with the rod, compared to 250 already done up, it may just be worth it to tackle finishing the ends of the rod.

Thoughts?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-Lathe-13-Cross-Slide-Feed-Nut-PT65T1-/201948182257?hash=item2f050cb6f1:g:5jsAAOSwNyFWeyk2&_trkparms=pageci%3A573bd7b0-57c6-11e7-bdf9-74dbd180ccee%7Cparentrq%3Ad30d9c9515c0aa469480e93affffa178%7Ciid%3A15


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## 4GSR (Jun 23, 2017)

Bamban said:


> Ken,
> 
> Here is a nut on eBay quoted 4G. For the price for around 100 bucks combined with the rod, compared to 250 already done up, it may just be worth it to tackle finishing the ends of the rod.
> 
> ...



Let's see, 2C plus 4G = Slop.   Just depends on which end of the spectrum the 2C thread is cut to.  Generally, I would say, it is cut to the high end of the tolerance limits for 2C.  4G, in my book that is a metal to metal fit if fitting two 4G fits of threads together.  The slop, as I indicated, is probably no more than .005" to .007" clearance between the two threads.  I usually cut them to where is around .001 to .003" clearance.  
If you can live this, I say go for it.  I can live with it!.  Now, don't be surprised if when you get the all thread and thread the nut on it and find tight and loose places in it as you rung the nut from end to end. And it may not.  Still worth a try.  You can always set up and chase the thread on the screw and make a nut to fit close if your not happy with the fit. I've done this on worn cross feed screws in the 4 and 5 pitch range. 
Ken


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## Bamban (Jun 23, 2017)

I want to correct the cross slide backlash right the first time, whatever it takes.

On another note, made a little progress in cleaning. I've been tied up helping the TX JRs on the firing line since Wednesday.


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## kvt (Jun 23, 2017)

That is looking really nice.


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## markba633csi (Jun 26, 2017)

Looks a lot better, I'm jealous too.  I'm guessing the color was grey originally? 
Mark S.


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## Bamban (Jun 26, 2017)

markba633csi said:


> Looks a lot better, I'm jealous too.  I'm guessing the color was grey originally?
> Mark S.



Don't really know what the original color is, the Zep Fast 505 Industrial Cleaner night be altering the color somewhat. The cleaner does a great job in getting rid of the oil and grime build up, just spray and lightly wipe down with paper towel.


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## markba633csi (Jun 26, 2017)

Wish I still had some Zep battery coat- great stuff for coating terminals
Mark


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## Bamban (Jun 28, 2017)

I think I will like this lathe, leveled the HS side, TS end of bed is still not torqued down. made another pass after leveling. Still looking good, taper within measuring error.

Cross slide nut on order, Ken will machine the lead screw for it. I will do the compound screw myself, nut for it is also on order.

The VFD system has been defined by Mark, single braking, no proximity sensor. The spindle control box will just have the EMO, Speed pot and toggle jog. The direction control box will have Forward Stop Reverse switches. The motor is 2HP Marathon, my spare, and the VFD itself will be the Hitachi single phase 2HP.

It should be a fun machine once it is all hot rodded for not a lot of money. Definitely stouter than some Asian offerings in its class.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 29, 2017)

looking very nice nez!


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## Bamban (Jul 1, 2017)

Let me give you guys one more boring update on the newly acquired SBL 13. I am just excited about the fact that even for its age, I can find parts for it.

I bought the compound and cross slide nuts from eBay, both for less than a hundred. Last night I installed the compound nut. I was rather surprised of right the fit was with the old lead screw, so I just re-assembled the unit.

This morning a buddy of mine a stopped by for a visit and we end up installimg then croas slide nut. The original plan was for Ken to machine a screw to fit the nut, after test fitting the nut to the old screw, and the fit was just like the compound, I decided to re-assemble the cross slide.

The compound video was taken by me while I was turning the crank. The cross slide was taken by my buddy while I manipulated the crank.

I don't know about you folks, for my use, the backlash, as shown, for both the compound and cross slide is nore than adequate. For a 61 year old machine, I am more than happy.

Next up is the VFD conversion, and you know who the master in VFD conversion is, mksj, already designed the control system. The wheels are rolling

When all is said and done, this lathe will be a fun machine for the years to come. One of its aspects that I really enjoy is the height. I am a sawed off guy, I can operate this one with ergonomic reach to the carriage cranks without employing any platform in front to stand on.


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## bac1972 (Jul 2, 2017)

You can't beat these old South Bends. Mine is also a 1956 (16" with an 8' bed) with almost zero wear. From the research I found they could be ordered in colors other than the typical grey back then. Mine is the original color. Not pretty but very accurate. I enjoy the parts availability and even found a brand new set of metric transposing gears. Enjoy your new lathe! You'll like the VFD, I'm using a Baldor self contained control with a remote keypad.


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## Bamban (Jul 2, 2017)

bac1972,

How do you use the clutch lever, engaged all the time? How do you stop when turning to a shoulder, pull out the power feed lever knob? The reason I am asking, the spring loaded knob on the power feed lever on mine is hard to pull out, maybe it just needs some more oiling.


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## bac1972 (Jul 2, 2017)

Bamban said:


> bac1972,
> 
> How do you use the clutch lever, engaged all the time? How do you stop when turning to a shoulder, pull out the power feed lever knob? The reason I am asking, the spring loaded knob on the power feed lever on mine is hard to pull out, maybe it just needs some more oiling.


 
Most of the early South Bends had the star knob to engage the feed clutch. I always thought you just turned the knob to engage/disengage. Mine was converted over to the toggle cam style at some point. Here is a link I found about the toggle style conversion. It explains the function easier than I can.... http://www.wswells.com/data/parts/992C.pdf  Parts may be still available for yours for this option. Grizzly.com owns South Bend now and may still have some parts available.

Sometimes the feed clutch gets sticky. Mine does when its super cold in my garage. I have no problems in warm weather but found some info and plan to do exactly this http://www.wswells.com/data/parts/2003.pdf


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## Bamban (Jul 2, 2017)

I understand the clutch, how do you stop to a shoulder when turning, disengage the power feed, disengage the belt, or disengage the clutch?


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## 4GSR (Jul 2, 2017)

Bamban said:


> I understand the clutch, how do you stop to a shoulder when turning, disengage the power feed, disengage the belt, or disengage the clutch?


On my 9 SBL, mine has the star wheel, I'll stop the feed just shy of hitting the shoulder.  I've never had the clutch to lock up and not dis-engage.  One thing I recommend, is not to engage hard when engaging.  Just gently engage the lever till it grabs and feeds.  Not sure if the lever type is adjustable, maybe bac1972 can enlighten us a little.


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## Bamban (Jul 2, 2017)

4gsr said:


> On my 9 SBL, mine has the star wheel, I'll stop the feed just shy of hitting the shoulder.  I've never had the clutch to lock up and not dis-engage.  One thing I recommend, is not to engage hard when engaging.  Just gently engage the lever till it grabs and feeds.  Not sure if the lever type is adjustable, maybe bac1972 can enlighten us a little.



Mine has the star wheel, so you are using the clutch to stop the feed?


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## bac1972 (Jul 2, 2017)

4gsr said:


> On my 9 SBL, mine has the star wheel, I'll stop the feed just shy of hitting the shoulder.  I've never had the clutch to lock up and not dis-engage.  One thing I recommend, is not to engage hard when engaging.  Just gently engage the lever till it grabs and feeds.  Not sure if the lever type is adjustable, maybe bac1972 can enlighten us a little.



With the factory design (referring to the diagram below), the slip torque is adjusted by loosening a setscrew (thru hole "U"), rotating the swivel nut ("S"), and re-tightening the setscrew. Once the torque is set, the radial position of the lever is adjusted for operator preference by loosening a setscrew ("O"), rotating the lever to the desired position, and re-tightening the setscrew: http://www.wswells.com/data/parts/2003.pdf


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## bac1972 (Jul 2, 2017)

Bamban said:


> I understand the clutch, how do you stop to a shoulder when turning, disengage the power feed, disengage the belt, or disengage the clutch?


 I definitely use the clutch and stop short and finish off the shoulder last. If you stop the belt you risk cutting tool breakage. I also have a variety of adjustable stops if I'm doing something critical. South Bend makes a few different ones you can usually locate used. I have a micrometer one on there now that I use the most. This video is long but worth watching. There is also a book version out there.


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## Bamban (Jul 2, 2017)

bac1972 said:


> I definitely use the clutch and stop short and finish off the shoulder last. If you stop the belt you risk cutting tool breakage. I also have a variety of adjustable stops if I'm doing something critical. South Bend makes a few different ones you can usually locate used. I have a micrometer one on there now that I use the most. This video is long but worth watching. There is also a book version out there.



Thank you. The video is helpful. The clutch handle on this one has been tightened so much that I could not budge it with just my hand. I may need a strap wrench to loosen it.

Thank you again.


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## bac1972 (Jul 2, 2017)

Bamban said:


> Thank you. The video is helpful. The clutch handle on this one has tightened is much that I could not budge it with just my hand. I may need a strap wrench to loosen it.
> 
> Thank you again.


You're welcome...glad I could help.


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## Bamban (Jul 8, 2017)

Y'all might be interested in this one. The original thrust washer appears to be hardened material and should be good for the application, but I happen to have ball bearing thrust bearing set that happen to fit perfectly. I bought these a couple of years ago for a project that I never started. To keep the nut from unscrewing itself I just put a couple of drops of 246 Locktite.


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