# Newbie custom countershaft 101.07301



## 92VwGTI (Jun 2, 2018)

Hello, 

I recently picked up this 101.07301 for $200. I’ve cleaned it up a bit, gone thru the oiling process, and built a base for the lathe. This lathe has a custom built countershaft setup (I was unaware of this when I bought it but after research and further examination it is definitely not factory). I am unsure of the best way to mount the motor and countershaft assembly. I need the ability to loosen the belt for speed changes and the countershaft only has three pulleys while the headstock has four. I have a tendency to over complicate things before I get them right so I figured I would ask for ideas before I build something that’s going to be difficult to use. Thanks in advance!


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## markba633csi (Jun 3, 2018)

I would just run it as is until perhaps you discover that: 
A) You really need the highest speed (which is doubtful) or
B) You don't like the amount of room the motor/countershaft unit takes up behind the machine
but in the mean time, enjoy! 
Careful of your fingers... 
Mark


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## BenW (Jun 3, 2018)

Maybe put a wood block on each side to keep the unit in line with the lathe but still allow it to move. From there you could add either an adjustable tension lever like most factory belt drives or just a bolt in a slot to clamp it down to the table. If you use a tension lever you might want something to positively clamp the motor assembly to the table so it doesn't vibrate. Like mark said, just clamping it down and using it as is for a while might help you figure out what you want to do. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## westsailpat (Jun 3, 2018)

Someone got pretty industrious with that set up , possibly it is missing the adjustment part or I just can't see it ? I'm with the guys , if you can easily get it running and if you want to get running   ASAP . There was a guy posting a while back , his setup was pretty cool . The headstock belt went straight down and the countershaft bracket and motor were on the bottom shelf . On my  setup the countershaft bracket is behind the headstock and the motor is on the bottom shelf . I'm pretty sure the countershaft bracket I have is the old style , where the new style type has the big arch for the motor to sit under .
Here is the new style.


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## westsailpat (Jun 3, 2018)

This is my setup , it has the old style countershaft bracket and it's missing the adjusting shaft and the pulley diameters are all wrong plus the motor pulley is wrong .




DSCF2434 by mark westi, on Flickr


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## 92VwGTI (Jun 3, 2018)

I got to fire it up for the first time last night just holding tension on the motor with my hand and now I’m antsy to get it going lol. I had thought about putting a piece of angle iron on each side of the bracket to allow it to slide straight and a bungee cord from the back of the bracket to the wall behind it.


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## 92VwGTI (Jun 3, 2018)

When I engage the half nut on the lead screw it just skips. The teeth look great, it just doesn’t clamp onto the lead screw tight enough. I guess I’ll figure out how to take that assembly apart later. If it’s a common issue feel free to share knowledge.


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## wa5cab (Jun 3, 2018)

To diagnose the problem with the half nuts, I would recommend removing the tailstock, lead screw and carriage gib.  Then crank the carriage off the end of the bed.  You will then be able to examine all of the parts and determine where the wear is.

Back to the countershaft, I strongly recommend not trying to get by with the generic 3-speed countershaft that came with the lathe.  Start looking for either the second version (original to the 07301) and third version (original to 618 and 101.21400.  Either will work.


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## 92VwGTI (Jun 3, 2018)

wa5cab said:


> To diagnose the problem with the half nuts, I would recommend removing the tailstock, lead screw and carriage gib.  Then crank the carriage off the end of the bed.  You will then be able to examine all of the parts and determine where the wear is.
> 
> Back to the countershaft, I strongly recommend not trying to get by with the generic 3-speed countershaft that came with the lathe.  Start looking for either the second version (original to the 07301) and third version (original to 618 and 101.21400.  Either will work.


Will using the supplied pulley setup hinder my ability to learn the hobby? Between the machine, materials, and tooling I’m pretty much maxed on what I’d like to spend to start up this hobby. Knowing that a proper countershaft setup runs on average $200 on eBay, I know I’m not going to get that return out of the machine if I decide lathe turning isn’t for me. Later on if I enjoy turning as much as I think I will I will certainly invest more into the hobby and machine. If I enjoy the hobby I could care less about ROI.


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## 92VwGTI (Jun 3, 2018)

This looks to be the original countershaft setup for my machine. 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/282959090288


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## T Bredehoft (Jun 3, 2018)

92VwGTI said:


> I’m not going to get that return out of the machine



This is a hobby, under no circumstances shoud you expect to get a return on your investment.



92VwGTI said:


> Will using the supplied pulley setup hinder my ability to learn the hobby?



No, only will it limit the different speeds available to you.


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## wa5cab (Jun 3, 2018)

92VwGTI said:


> Will using the supplied pulley setup hinder my ability to learn the hobby?



Probably not.  But I would not waste much time or money trying to make what you have usable on all three speeds.  Get a copy of one of the 15 1937 editions of the Atlas Manual of Lathe Operations plus download and print the 618 or 101.07301 Threading Chart.  The MOLO, among other things, has a speed chart showing Surface Feet Per Minute versus spindle RPM and work piece diameter.  And sections on machining a lot of different metals and plastics.


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## markba633csi (Jun 3, 2018)

You'll probably have other issues on the lathe that need attention- you can always revisit the countershaft later
Find out what else needs fixing then work out a parts budget that works for you
Mark
Here is an article describing a rebuild of a model like yours and some of the issues you might encounter:
https://www.snafu.org/other/2016-lathe/


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## 92VwGTI (Jun 4, 2018)

What’s this part on the right called? It’s part of the halfnut setup.

EDIT: Found a parts breakdown. M6-38 split nut cam.


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## 92VwGTI (Jun 4, 2018)

Alright so this part is unavailable new from what I’ve seen and I’d rather not spend $50 on a used one if I don’t have to. I’m considering building up the worn portion with jb weld and filing it smooth. Does anyone else have ideas they’d like to share?


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## wa5cab (Jun 4, 2018)

JB Weld won't work very long in that application.  Especially if you are doing an interrupted cut.  If the part is made of steel, have someone build up the worn area and re-machine it to original dimensions.  And replace the stud in each half nut with new ones.  If the part is Zamak, all that I can think of is to widen the slots by the amount of the wear and make and install oversize studs in the half nuts.


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## wa5cab (Jun 4, 2018)

Have you called Clausing?  1-800-323-0972.  Ask for old Atlas parts.  And you may need half nuts.  It appears that on the 6", the studs are cast as part of the half nuts.


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## 92VwGTI (Jun 4, 2018)

I actually just came here to post that I found one for $26 on eBay. When I searched the part number on eBay it didn’t come up but searching on google with the exact same part number did bring up a listing.


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## 92VwGTI (Jun 4, 2018)

wa5cab said:


> Have you called Clausing?  1-800-323-0972.  Ask for old Atlas parts.  And you may need half nuts.  It appears that on the 6", the studs are cast as part of the half nuts.


The half nuts are actually in pretty good shape. When the replacement cam comes in I’ll see how the fit is. It’s possible the studs are worn but they don’t look like it.


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## kopeck (Jun 5, 2018)

I think I would keep my eyes open for a decent countershaft setup.  A lot of stuff is worth more in parts than as a whole unit and these little Atlas/Craftsman lathes seem to be a pretty extreme example of this rule.

My 6" cost me $300 bucks, I'm not sure where I am not as far as overall investment goes but it's well over what it's worth.  That's OK as I've learned a lot and I have a working machine now.  I think if I had to do it over again, with the experience of making my little 6" right I would have used the money go get a little bigger more complete unit.  That being said it's a fun tool to have around.

K


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## 92VwGTI (Jun 5, 2018)

kopeck said:


> I think I would keep my eyes open for a decent countershaft setup.  A lot of stuff is worth more in parts than as a whole unit and these little Atlas/Craftsman lathes seem to be a pretty extreme example of this rule.
> 
> My 6" cost me $300 bucks, I'm not sure where I am not as far as overall investment goes but it's well over what it's worth.  That's OK as I've learned a lot and I have a working machine now.  I think if I had to do it over again, with the experience of making my little 6" right I would have used the money go get a little bigger more complete unit.  That being said it's a fun tool to have around.
> 
> K


I just want to get into it and see it make some chips before I grow my investment. I’m sure I will eventually buy a proper countershaft setup or upgrade machines.


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## kopeck (Jun 6, 2018)

92VwGTI said:


> I just want to get into it and see it make some chips before I grow my investment. I’m sure I will eventually buy a proper countershaft setup or upgrade machines.



I understand that completely, I was there not long ago.  What I've found is I change the speeds somewhat frequently as the material and the diameter really has an effect on how well it cuts.  I think with your current setup that would be kind of frustrating.

I don't have the two step counter shaft drive/motor pulleys.  I have singles that are sized sort of in between.  It works.

K


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## Silverbullet (Jun 6, 2018)

I'd mount the motor and frame set up like it is just use a pair of hinges . Let the motor frame weight be the tension. Belt change will be easy just lift and change.


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## 92VwGTI (Jun 6, 2018)

Silverbullet said:


> I'd mount the motor and frame set up like it is just use a pair of hinges . Let the motor frame weight be the tension. Belt change will be easy just lift and change.


This is actually one of the ideas I had floating around.


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## Latinrascalrg1 (Jun 6, 2018)

Silverbullet said:


> I'd mount the motor and frame set up like it is just use a pair of hinges . Let the motor frame weight be the tension. Belt change will be easy just lift and change.


Exactly what I was going to suggest. IMHO, It would be the most straightforward way of doing it with is shown in the pictures.


Or option 2....If ....you would prefer to save a bit of space behind your lathe you could hang the whole motor setup as you have it vertically directly behind the head so that the belt is fed through the frame. You want the motor at the bottom where it would need to be hinged and then use gravity to pull back on the belt to apply tension.


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## 92VwGTI (Jun 6, 2018)

My original idea was to use some 6” bungee cords to apply tension from the rear of the motor assembly (using as many as needed for the desired tension). The bench the lathe is on I had planned to remove because it was nothing more than a junk collector but I have no problem keeping it for the lathe so having the large motor assembly behind it isn’t really bothering me at the moment. My shop is very small and I’m kind of at a loss with it at the moment; just waiting for creativity to strike.


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## 92VwGTI (Jun 6, 2018)

How are you guys checking spindle runout? My chuck has rust on it so I can’t trust that and the collar behind the spindle threads has a few knicks in it. I checked the inside of the spindle and got about 2 thou runout.


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## westsailpat (Jun 6, 2018)

Here is a good way to check for sipn run out : Put a travel indicator against the chuck (sand off the rust first) , chuck up a round bar , move the bar in the direction that will move the indicator . Note the movement , if it more than .001 we need to talk .


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## 92VwGTI (Jun 7, 2018)

westsailpat said:


> Here is a good way to check for sipn run out : Put a travel indicator against the chuck (sand off the rust first) , chuck up a round bar , move the bar in the direction that will move the indicator . Note the movement , if it more than .001 we need to talk .


So you’re saying to chuck up a piece of round stock, mount my dial indicator to measure chuck movement, and pull on the round stock towards to indicator?


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## kopeck (Jun 7, 2018)

westsailpat said:


> Here is a good way to check for sipn run out : Put a travel indicator against the chuck (sand off the rust first) , chuck up a round bar , move the bar in the direction that will move the indicator . Note the movement , if it more than .001 we need to talk .



.001 might be a tad picky.  My like new spindle probably will give .001 at the chuck depending on where you measure it.  The closer to the spindle the better your numbers are going to be.  My 3 jaw is kind of long so....

Honestly if you can feel some movement your probably going to have to start digging.  I've found some vertical movement is normal, or at least it it is one mine.  I think it's the way the head stock clamps down on the bearing.  I need to measure mine again now that it's "worn in" a bit.  It seem to cut pretty well (the old spindle would chatter and cut poorly).

K


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## westsailpat (Jun 7, 2018)

Yes , the round stock is your lever it should be at least 1/2 , 3/4 would be better and about 6" long . First put the indicator to the top of the chuck , move the lever up and down . Now try it from the side .  If you are getting a lot of movement disassemble the spindle . At the area where the bushing is drag your finger nail over the part where the bushing ends , can you feel a step ? Bushings are available form Clausing  800-323-0972  ask for old stuff . Part#'s L9-14 & L2-14 .
Here is a blog on how to disassemble the spindle . It's really not a big deal . 
http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/atlas/spindle/spindle.html


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## wa5cab (Jun 8, 2018)

92VwGTI said:


> My original idea was to use some 6” bungee cords to apply tension from the rear of the motor assembly (using as many as needed for the desired tension).



Sorry, but as I wrote a few days ago, both that and using the weight of the motor to set belt tension are bad ideas.  If you don't believe it, set your machine up that way.  Then mount your 4-jaw chuck and mount a piece of something like 1" aluminum square bar in the chuck.  Now try to turn one end down to round.  Take a pretty good cut at a slow spindle RPM and watch the motor bounce.

There is nothing wrong with having the motor mount hinged.  But tie the other side of the motor down rigidly.


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## kopeck (Jun 8, 2018)

wa5cab said:


> Sorry, but as I wrote a few days ago, both that and using the weight of the motor to set belt tension are bad ideas.  If you don't believe it, set your machine up that way.  Then mount your 4-jaw chuck and mount a piece of something like 1" aluminum square bar in the chuck.  Now try to turn one end down to round.  Take a pretty good cut at a slow spindle RPM and watch the motor bounce.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with having the motor mount hinged.  But tie the other side of the motor down rigidly.



I agree 100% with this.  Mine was setup with a purpose build motor hinge and while cutting wasn't an issue the darn thing didn't want to stay in line since all the weight was sitting on one side.  I had the hinge setup work on a bandsaw but the belt was a lot longer which helped.  If you are going to keep the motor near the counter shaft your room for error is much smaller.


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## kopeck (Jun 8, 2018)

FYI:

Horizontal deflection on my 6" measured on the chuck:

At the backing plate:  Slightly less than a half a thousand.
On the working end: Slightly under a thousand.

I do have a indicator that measures in 10th if you want to go that far.  I do keep my spindle so it spins easily, the book says it should have a slight drag at slow speeds and be more like I have it setup for high speed turning.  I figure if I absolutely need to hit a number I can always snug it up but I want to protect my spindle a much as I can.

K


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