# I Killed It !!! ~~~~ My Bandsaw



## Robert LaLonde (Jan 31, 2018)

As some of you might know by now my home hobby shop is also my day job.  I have really come to rely on the little HF 4x6 bandsaw.
It has served me fairly well for several years.  Today it quit working.  When I opened up the gear box the oil was a solid gold metal flake color like the paint job on an early 80s low rider.  Dang-It.  Totally chowdered the worm gear.  The screw appears to be just fine.  So my options are:

1.  Get ahold of Harbor Freight customer service and ask them to transfer me to parts where I can order the part which may show up anytime from a few weeks to a few months.  Last time I had to get something through the parts department it took three weeks.  Even three weeks without my saw would drive me totally bonkers.  I am working on some press dies in 4140HT right now, and I needed to cut some 1x6 flat bar.  After just two cuts with my old abrasive saw I was ready to throw that thing off a building.  Preferably one next to some deep water with a deep muck bottom.  

2.  Gamble that the gear is the same size Grizzly saw is the same gear.  They do have one in stock in Missouri and its "only " fifty bucks.  Of course unless I wanted to double that price with red label shipping I wouldn't have it until next week, and there is no guarantee its the same gear.  I do have more metal to cut, and I am not looking forward to spending an entire day burning up abrasive blades and breathing grit.

3.  Look at picking up a Rage Saw.  Home Depot has one in stock locally and its less then I paid for my abrasive saw.  I'm not sure if the Rage blades are up to cutting 4140HT though.  No I don't want to anneal it first.  LOL.  

Ultimately a horizontal bandsaw is the best option for me for severing stock if only because I don't have to stand there and run it while its cutting.  I can lay it down and walk over to the sander to deburr parts, change a tool on one of the CNC mills, sweep the floor, carry out trash, or if its a big piece of stock I can walk in the office to do some CAD  or CAM work.  In the long run a bigger horizontal bandsaw would be the best solution, but I am in the middle of a big job and I want my band saw back in operation ten minutes ago.

The only "fast" solution to fixing the bandsaw saw is to make a new gear myself.  The screw is either 5TPI or 5mm.  Those two are so close if the gear is a little sloppy it doesn't matter which way I cut it.  The problem is I don't have any bronze big enough to make the gear.  _(The original HF gear looks like yellow brass to me, but as you know the colors can vary depending on the exact alloy.)_  I don't even have to change gears to turn 5TPI on the lathe.  Just flip a couple levers.  I can make a screw out of 4140, _(I do have some drill rod, but not big enough)_ cut some back grooves and reliefs to make teeth, heat treat, hope it doesn't warp to bad, and then use the bump and spin method to make a gear... out of aluminum.  I have plenty of 6061 laying around.  Its not quite as strong as brass, definitely not as strong as bronze, but it would get me going again.  Of course I also need to grind a force broach for the keyway if I go that way... since I still haven't broken down and bought a set of keyway broaches.  I could see making that gear taking up an entire day.

I just need the right gear to fall from the sky like manna from heaven.

Ok... enough griping and whining.  Time to head into the house get some dinner and come back fresh in the morning.


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## markba633csi (Jan 31, 2018)

Check the gear and see if it's the more common 20 tooth one, you can buy a Boston Gear 20t on Amazon for about 50$,  but it will have a non-metric bore, don't remember if it has a keyway
Mark


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## Downwindtracker2 (Jan 31, 2018)

When I opened the gear box on my TWS version ,I cut my glove on the sharp edges. I went on Craig list and picked up another used one. This time I added a pipe plug and filled it with gear oil. Grease didn't work,obviously. It had been well used by, how many?, previous owners.


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## Eddyde (Jan 31, 2018)

I suggest, order the gear from HF and make one from the aluminum you have on hand. That way, if or when it fails you'll have a backup ready to go.


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## benmychree (Jan 31, 2018)

You guys; DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT use EP gear oil with bronze worm gears; it is corrosive to the bronze and when used, it corrodes the bronze, then the worm wears it off, a continuous process leading to early failure.


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## Robert LaLonde (Jan 31, 2018)

markba633csi said:


> Check the gear and see if it's the more common 20 tooth one, you can buy a Boston Gear 20t on Amazon for about 50$,  but it will have a non-metric bore, don't remember if it has a keyway
> Mark



Sadly its a 23T.  I counted them twice.  I have a couple different ways to make a keyway depending on how I make a gear.  Might make the rough bore and keyway on one of the little CNC mills then use a boring bar to size on the lathe.  I figure if I add a set screw right on the keyway it won't matter if the keyway has a rounded top.  




Eddyde said:


> I suggest, order the gear from HF and make one from the aluminum you have on hand. That way, if or when it fails you'll have a backup ready to go.



Probably what I'll do or some variation there of.  I've got enough metal cut to keep the machines busy for a couple days, so I guess I can spend a day making a gear.


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## Nogoingback (Jan 31, 2018)

Bob La Londe said:


> 3.  Look at picking up a Rage Saw.  Home Depot has one in stock locally and its less then I paid for my abrasive saw.  I'm not sure if the Rage blades are up to cutting 4140HT though.  No I don't want to anneal it first.  LOL.



Bob, just want to mention that a carbide tipped circular saw like that is not good for big chunks of steel.  I've got a Makita  which
is fine for tubing or thin stuff.  Not so good for big sections.  I cut through a chunk of 4130 one time: it took forever and the blade 
had to be sharpened afterwords.


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## Chipper5783 (Jan 31, 2018)

Sounds like this is an upgrade opportunity.  If you are using the saw quite a bit and this is now your day job - go buy a 7x12.


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## Jimsehr (Jan 31, 2018)

Buy a new HF saw. $259


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## Z2V (Jan 31, 2018)

HF has a 20% coupon out now.


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## Wireaddict (Feb 1, 2018)

Have you considered sending the 1X6 bars out to another job shop to rough cut them for you while you wait for a new gear?


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## projectnut (Feb 1, 2018)

If you have the space I would look for something a little more robust.  Craigslist in our area currently has about 10 commercial grade metal band saws listed.  Some are about the same price as the HF, while others are into the thousands.

A few years ago I was able to find this little gem for only a little more than HF is asking for their 4"x6" machine.  This one has a 7"x11" capacity, and can be used in either the vertical or horizontal position.  It has coolant capacity which I never use.  I use bimetal blades dry and cut everything from A2 tool steel to wooden fence posts​.


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## ttabbal (Feb 1, 2018)

benmychree said:


> You guys; DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT use EP gear oil with bronze worm gears; it is corrosive to the bronze and when used, it corrodes the bronze, then the worm wears it off, a continuous process leading to early failure.



How does one determine what is safe to use? I used a bottle of 90w gear oil I had on the shelf. It was purchased for differentials on a truck axle and worked fine for that. Would the oil for my lathe gearbox be a better choice? Mobil DTE.


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## 4GSR (Feb 1, 2018)

ttabbal said:


> How does one determine what is safe to use? I used a bottle of 90w gear oil I had on the shelf. It was purchased for differentials on a truck axle and worked fine for that. Would the oil for my lathe gearbox be a better choice? Mobil DTE.


Truck differentials do not have any bronze gears in them.  That's why it ok for car/truck differentials.


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## 4GSR (Feb 1, 2018)

Bob La Londe said:


> ...........
> 2.  Gamble that the gear is the same size Grizzly saw is the same gear.  They do have one in stock in Missouri and its "only " fifty bucks.  Of course unless I wanted to double that price with red label shipping I wouldn't have it until next week, and there is no guarantee its the same gear.  I do have more metal to cut, and I am not looking forward to spending an entire day burning up abrasive blades and breathing grit.
> ............................


There's a 100% chance the Grizzly gear will fit. They all pretty much came from the same factory.  May want to buy the same matching worm also, just in case there is any difference in the two.


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## dlane (Feb 1, 2018)

“A2 tool steel to wooden fence posts”   Fence posts ? 
Projectnut : that looks like a nice saw , do you put wood blades on it for the posts ?


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## Robert LaLonde (Feb 1, 2018)

Wireaddict said:


> Have you considered sending the 1X6 bars out to another job shop to rough cut them for you while you wait for a new gear?



Its not a bad idea but not In Yuma, Az in the winter time.  All the shops are busy with agricultural jobs.  We grow a lot of winter produce here.  Besides a 12' piece of 1x6 is not something I want to have to handle any more often than I have to.  (My work isn't ag related, but I ship world wide so I am always busy too.)



projectnut said:


> If you have the space I would look for something a little more robust.  Craigslist in our area currently has about 10 commercial grade metal band saws listed.  Some are about the same price as the HF, while others are into the thousands.
> 
> A few years ago I was able to find this little gem for only a little more than HF is asking for their 4"x6" machine.  This one has a 7"x11" capacity, and can be used in either the vertical or horizontal position.  It has coolant capacity which I never use.  I use bimetal blades dry and cut everything from
> A2 tool steel to wooden fence posts



I've found a total of one metal cutting horizontal bandsaw locally for sale on CL or FB groups and it was so clapped out I'd have had to spend days rebuilding it.  I do keep an eye out though.  Been looking for several years.  I need to step up to a bigger saw, but I don't want to settles.  I want a 2 column horizontal when I get around to buying a bigger new saw.  That costs.  Maybe on the next big job.



4gsr said:


> Truck differentials do not have any bronze gears in them.  That's why it ok for car/truck differentials.



I think sometimes people make to big of a deal about oil. The problem is everybody weights everything they say to sell their product.  Sometimes they change what they say _** coughmercury**_ to sell their more expensive product later down the road.  I makes it hard to determine the "spec" for an application, but if you look in some old machinery manuals you will find oil specs listed without all that sale hype *******t.  Look in a modern John Deere manual and they will specifically list a John Deere brand different lube and sealant for every little thing.  Things even the local SERVICING John Deere dealer doesn't stock.


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## ericc (Feb 1, 2018)

Just get another saw and leave this one for a project.  Projects are not for gating rush jobs, especially paying ones.  I am having a little trouble with this right now.  If $$$ is on the line, no matter how difficult, it is a good idea to suspend the hobbyist mentality for just a little while.


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## fradish (Feb 1, 2018)

I remember seeing comments about EP oils eating brass so I ordered this Royal Purple
which explicitly mentions that it is safe for yellow metals:

https://www.amazon.com/Royal-Purple...320&sr=8-1&keywords=royal+purple+90w+gear+oil

I think the problem is that the old manuals came out before the corrosive additives so they wouldn't have mentioned them.


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## Dredb (Feb 1, 2018)

4gsr said:


> Truck differentials do not have any bronze gears in them.  That's why it ok for car/truck differentials.



Last differential I stripped had bronze washers behind the gears.
Those 4 X 6 bandsaws are probably one of the biggest sellers ever. Low cost, may not be the ultimate in precision machines (ahem) but will work for years with the minimum of care. If I had to pick the best ever labour saving machine, it's right up there next to cement mixer.


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## woodchucker (Feb 1, 2018)

benmychree said:


> You guys; DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT use EP gear oil with bronze worm gears; it is corrosive to the bronze and when used, it corrodes the bronze, then the worm wears it off, a continuous process leading to early failure.



From http://www.lsc-online.com/industrial-ep-gear-oil/


PRODUCTS & SERVICES
QUALITY
PACKAGING
EXPORT & LOGISTICS
ABOUT US
MEDIA ROOM
SDS



CUSTOMER LOGIN
INDUSTRIAL OILS
GEAR LUBRICANTS
METALWORKING FLUIDS
SPECIALTY OILS
*INDUSTRIAL EP GEAR OIL*
*PREMIUM INDUSTRIAL EP GEAR OIL (NON-LEADED)
Product Description*: INDUSTRIAL EP GEAR OIL is formulated from high quality high VI base oils combined with selected additives to provide resistance to foaming, rusting, corrosion and oxidation. A sulfur-phosphorus additive is used to give this oil its extreme pressure characteristics which permit industrial gears to withstand heavy loads and shock loading. *Unique additive package employed in industrial EP Gear Oil is non-corrosive to brass, bronze, steel or other alloys.*


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## Eddyde (Feb 1, 2018)

Nogoingback said:


> Bob, just want to mention that a carbide tipped circular saw like that is not good for big chunks of steel.  I've got a Makita  which
> is fine for tubing or thin stuff.  Not so good for big sections.  I cut through a chunk of 4130 one time: it took forever and the blade
> had to be sharpened afterwords.


I have a Morse Metal Devil saw which is similar. Yes it is great on stuff up to about ¼" much faster than a bandsaw but not good for solid bar. I use a wax stick lube, seems to help.


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## projectnut (Feb 1, 2018)

dlane said:


> “A2 tool steel to wooden fence posts”   Fence posts ?
> Projectnut : that looks like a nice saw , do you put wood blades on it for the posts ?



I have to admit I don't cut fence posts on a regular basis.  The last post I cut was an old redwood one a couple days ago, and it was for kindling for the fireplace.  I had a 10 - 14 tpi variable pitch metal blade on the saw.  It cut through the redwood like butter.   I did have to vacuum all the redwood saw dust up or it would have been tracked through the shop and house by the dogs.  Actually the last thing I do every day before I leave the shop is clean the machines and vacuum the floor.  I may be a slow learner, but over the years I have learned that if there's anything in the shop that can find it's way into the house the dogs will find a way to get it there.

I also have to admit being in the heart of the rust belt there are plenty of pieces of used equipment in good condition at reasonable prices.  This saw came from a shop in Chicago.  It was too small for the amount of production they were doing.  Rather than destroy it by over working it they offered it at a good price and replaced it with an automated one nearly double the size.


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## RandyM (Feb 1, 2018)

Here is some more info on the subject of gear oils.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/24959/gear-oil-questions-answers


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## royesses (Feb 1, 2018)

ttabbal said:


> How does one determine what is safe to use? I used a bottle of 90w gear oil I had on the shelf. It was purchased for differentials on a truck axle and worked fine for that. Would the oil for my lathe gearbox be a better choice? Mobil DTE.





projectnut said:


> I have to admit I don't cut fence posts on a regular basis.  The last post I cut was an old redwood one a couple days ago, and it was for kindling for the fireplace.  I had a 10 - 14 tpi variable pitch metal blade on the saw.  It cut through the redwood like butter.   I did have to vacuum all the redwood saw dust up or it would have been tracked through the shop and house by the dogs.  Actually the last thing I do every day before I leave the shop is clean the machines and vacuum the floor.  I may be a slow learner, but over the years I have learned that if there's anything in the shop that can find it's way into the house the dogs will find a way to get it there.
> 
> I also have to admit being in the heart of the rust belt there are plenty of pieces of used equipment in good condition at reasonable prices.  This saw came from a shop in Chicago.  It was too small for the amount of production they were doing.  Rather than destroy it by over working it they offered it at a good price and replaced it with an automated one nearly double the size.



Use Mobil SHC 634, it is made to resist damage to bronze gears. The grizzly parts are an exact fit on the HF 4x6. I use them on my HF 4x6.

Roy


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## SSage (Feb 1, 2018)

My HF 4x6 saw has never cut completely square even after the usual mods, but its been long lived. Bought it used with a custom coolant system and home made stand. I've been wanting to upgrade though, but I wonder if any of the cheap ones actually cut square, I cut up 1x2 steel bars often and it would be nice to reduce milling time straightening up the slightly off cuts.

Have you considered the larger HF band saw? I've been thinking about getting one of these: https://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?dir=asc&order=EAScore,f,EAFeatured+Weight,f,Sale+Rank,f&q=band+saw


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## Robert LaLonde (Feb 1, 2018)

SSage said:


> My HF 4x6 saw has never cut completely square even after the usual mods, but its been long lived. Bought it used with a custom coolant system and home made stand. I've been wanting to upgrade though, but I wonder if any of the cheap ones actually cut square, I cut up 1x2 steel bars often and it would be nice to reduce milling time straightening up the slightly off cuts.
> 
> Have you considered the larger HF band saw? I've been thinking about getting one of these: https://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?dir=asc&order=EAScore,f,EAFeatured+Weight,f,Sale+Rank,f&q=band+saw



I'd be tempted to buy one today if they had one in stock locally.  I probably wouldn't but I'd be tempted.  LOL


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## markba633csi (Feb 1, 2018)

These saws are sensitive to blade tension, blade speed and blade pressure. All of these can affect how straight the saw cuts.  I have learned what my saw likes and it cuts pretty straight, but there was a learning curve for me.  Still not sure if cutting thick aluminum whether to cut dry or wet?  Dry, the blade seems to wander more... Need to experiment
Mark S.


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## silence dogood (Feb 1, 2018)

4gsr said:


> There's a 100% chance the Grizzly gear will fit. They all pretty much came from the same factory.  May want to buy the same matching worm also, just in case there is any difference in the two.


Agree on the last sentence.  The old worm gear may have developed some flaws and then it could ruin your new gear.


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## Robert LaLonde (Feb 1, 2018)

markba633csi said:


> These saws are sensitive to blade tension, blade speed and blade pressure. All of these can affect how straight the saw cuts.  I have learned what my saw likes and it cuts pretty straight, but there was a learning curve for me.  Still not sure if cutting thick aluminum whether to cut dry or wet?  Dry, the blade seems to wander more... Need to experiment
> Mark S.



I use a little rapid tap oil and ease the blade into the cut by hand.  When its got a fresh blade I can adjust it moderately straight, but after its been abused a while all bets are off.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Feb 1, 2018)

We went to Quartzite for the rock shows last week,and dropped down to Yuma to visit some friends wintering there.Guess what Yuma has on the main drag, you guessed it a HF. First one this Canuck had ever seen.

On oils, most EPs do eat brass,but those with auto numbers like 75/140 aren't likely to.For all I use, a litre of syn diff oil is cheap enough.Sure beats buying a 20 litre pail of the non EP gear oil.


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## JPigg55 (Feb 1, 2018)

From the looks of it, the Harbor Freight, Grizzly, and Shop Fox band saw are all the same except for the paint job.
From the sound of it, you use it a lot and since one part went bad makes you wonder what's next and how soon.
A new saw sounds to be the best bet to me.


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## JPigg55 (Feb 1, 2018)

Found these two used, industrial band saw on craigslist not too far from Yuma. A little dirty, but not much more or less than a new HF saw.
https://tucson.craigslist.org/tls/d/metal-band-saw/6464467928.html
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/for/d/franklin-industrial-metal/6461066960.html


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## Aukai (Feb 2, 2018)

GL-4 gear oil is for the early GM 4 speed transmissions with brass synchronizers.


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## Robert LaLonde (Feb 2, 2018)

JPigg55 said:


> Found these two used, industrial band saw on craigslist not too far from Yuma. A little dirty, but not much more or less than a new HF saw.
> https://tucson.craigslist.org/tls/d/metal-band-saw/6464467928.html
> https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/for/d/franklin-industrial-metal/6461066960.html



3hrs drive one way for either of them.  A full day out of the shop basically.  I have to add that to the cost along with fuel, and add the possibility its more clapped out than I want to work on.  Its not a bad idea, but I wouldn't make the drive to just check out the saw.  Now if I was going to Phoenix or Tucson anyway, I'd be all over the Craigslist and Facebook groups looking to see what I could find.  

When I went to Vegas with my wife a few years back I took my truck and spent some time scouring the same looking for a contractors cap for my truck.  I found a decent one at a good price, but I was in Vegas for the week anyway.  I didn't have to factor in all that extra cost. 

FYI:  We saw some good shows in Vegas, but I particularly enjoyed the street performers.  Some of them you may have seen on talent competitions on television.  

For now I red labeled the gear from Grizzly.  It should be here today.  I cut out a blank to make an aluminum gear, but between other work I just haven't had time to finish it.  While I was fretting over it I received an email from a customer telling me they would be duplicating a large order of parts.  As soon as their check arrives I'm going to order a bigger badder saw.


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## Dredb (Feb 2, 2018)

Bob La Londe said:


> While I was fretting over it I received an email from a customer telling me they would be duplicating a large order of parts.  As soon as their check arrives I'm going to order a bigger badder saw.



Isn't it sweet when a problem solves itself.


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## Robert LaLonde (Feb 2, 2018)

Dredb said:


> Isn't it sweet when a problem solves itself.



Yessir, but of course that chicken hasn't hatched yet.  LOL.  I'm still fixing the little saw today.


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## Robert LaLonde (Feb 2, 2018)

*Notice anything missing.  Sigh! *


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## Robert LaLonde (Feb 2, 2018)

There was sticky gunk in the mess too.  Like some kind of sealant that didn't gel solid when covered in oil.


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## Robert LaLonde (Feb 2, 2018)

The review I just posted on the HF website:  




> Chowder to Powder
> 
> When I first got my saw it seemed to like it had been partially assembled once before. The belt cover was installed and there was a chip out of one of the pulleys. Harbor Freight wanted me to ship the saw back for a replacement. Well we all know how unreasonable that is. Then they said they would give me a credit so I could just go buy a new pulley. That's the first star. Some decent service if it took a little arguing to get it. The second star is because I have used this saw for several years, and for the last year every single day in my shop. That's the second star. I use it for rough sizing stock to go on my mill or lathe. A couple days ago it quit working. A blade broke, but that happens. The big thing is it wouldn't turn with any tension on the new blade. I opened up the gear box and found the brass gear had turned mostly to powder. The oil looked like gold metal flake paint. More like something you might see on an early 80s model custom low rider than in a gear box. I ordered a new gear and today I proceeded to try and install it when I found a piece missing. Look at the picture. The casting where the bearing goes is broken and the piece is missing. It wasn't inside the gear box. It was just missing. There was some nasty gunk in the oil when I proceed to clean it out. Like maybe some not fully cure silicone or something. I don't know if this was a used returned saw they pawned off on me, or if it was a saw broken at the factory and shipped damaged or maybe both, but its an absolute miracle that it lasted as long as it did.


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## Surprman (Feb 4, 2018)

Partly in response to this post I decided to clean out the gear box of my 4x6 today.   The "oil" that was in there was really more of a slurry -very heavy and viscous - like a thicker version of honey.   It also had a yellowish mother-of-pearl look to it (see photo of it smeared on some paper).  I'm thinking whatever was in there was starting to "work" on the brass gear.   The gear looked good though, and there was not a lot of sand in there as I expected.  It took a while to get the old goop out and scrub the case clean with some mineral metal spirits.  When I was done I put some new GL-1 gear oil in based on what I've read.  I was able to get a three lifetime supply at the local NAPA store.  Feels like I might have doubled the saw's expected life.

Rick


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## Robert LaLonde (Feb 4, 2018)

I have a decent (not a "you suck", but decent) deal lined up on a new 7x12, and for the moment the 4x6 is working.  Now if only somebody pays me before somebody takes my saw...  I'll be set, and just keep the 4x6 for a backup.


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