# Headstock bearing lube?



## Boomer (Aug 24, 2014)

Alrighty, so my lathe spindle rides on tapered roller bearings that normally get lubed with motor oil. But, I had a thought. Tapered roller bearings that are used for spindles in automotive applications are packed with grease. Oiling through the cups makes a mess over time, with oil running down the sides of the headstock which drips down on whatever might be laying underneath my lathe, like on one of my tool boxes. So, I figured, why could I not just grease the spindle bearings with some heavy duty automotive type bearing grease? Has anyone ever tried this?


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## wa5cab (Aug 25, 2014)

Some have.  Bad idea.  You won't like the results.  Wheel bearings are supposed to be removed, cleaned and repacked every 15,000 to 30,000 miles.  It's a very easy operation.  Not so on the lathe.  And once you pack the bearings with grease, you won't be able to get oil into the bearings because the grease will plug the oiling hole.  After a few years it will dry out and get as hard as a rock.  Atlas lathes are like British vehicles.  If there is no oil dripping off of it, you are running it dry and damaging it.:whistle:     

Also, you should never use "motor oil" on any machine tools.  It has additives in it intended to collect water (it is hydroscopic) which in the average shop environment will soon rust up the machine.    

Robert D.


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## Boomer (Aug 25, 2014)

Do you buy way oil locally or do you order your supply?


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## wa5cab (Aug 25, 2014)

Boomer,

I actually bought what I currently have from an eBay seller from whom I was also buying a couple of sets of way felts.  They offered I think it was a half pint in a decent plastic squeeze bottle with a nozzle that's a good fit for the oiling hole on top of the metal wiper covers.  If I ever use that up, I'll probably buy a little from a local machine tool outfit (Bass Tool & Supply) who are only a couple of miles away.  For the rest of the lathe (the SAE-20 ND equivalent), I bought a gallon from Enco about a year ago.  When that runs out, I may go back to Enco or to Bass.  Depends upon what else I might need at the time.  Note that although the local counterman will probably know what you need if you tell him SAE 20 non-detergent, and so might someone to whom you are giving a phone order, if you buy it online, you'll have to figure out what the equivalent is as no one that I've seen lists it as SAE 20.  The online ads usually have a conversion chart from ISO to SAE.  

Robert D.


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## iron man (Aug 25, 2014)

Thats odd I have seen car wheel bearings run over a hundred thousand miles with out a repack and a good grease should not get hard unless mixed with dirt. I would think the biggest problem would be stopping dirt from getting to the bearings if a seal of any kind could be made then a packed bearing should run a very long time these lathes dont turn very fast not like the pressure, heat or speed of a car or truck it is the same bearing you know. Ray


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## Boomer (Aug 25, 2014)

Sweet, thanks for the info. I was doing some reading, and supposedly regular 3 in 1 oil is supposed to be #10 spindle oil.


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## JOEZ (Aug 25, 2014)

Boomer said:


> Sweet, thanks for the info. I was doing some reading, and supposedly regular 3 in 1 oil is supposed to be #10 spindle oil.



That (3 in one oil ) is what I use in my Atlas 10 in the Oil Cups.


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## Boomer (Aug 26, 2014)

Man, I hadn't used my lathe in awhile. Have a new project to work on and I had to do a little cleanup to it. Oiled the cups and forgot that it doesn't take that much to fill the oil cups. I over filled the rear spindle cup and it just kept taking oil. Didn't think anything of it, until after about 10 minutes later, there was big puddle of oil on the lid of my toolbox. There's now a pan setting under the drip.

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iron man said:


> Thats odd I have seen car wheel bearings run over a hundred thousand miles with out a repack and a good grease should not get hard unless mixed with dirt. I would think the biggest problem would be stopping dirt from getting to the bearings if a seal of any kind could be made then a packed bearing should run a very long time these lathes dont turn very fast not like the pressure, heat or speed of a car or truck it is the same bearing you know. Ray



This is what I was thinking!


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## wa5cab (Aug 26, 2014)

Ray,

You are, of course, free to pack your spindle bearings with grease if you wish.  But it isn't a good idea.  The first point that you missed is that once you do, you won't be able to get oil into the bearings later without first disassembling the headstock and thoroughly cleaning it and the bearings because the grease will have plugged the oil entry hole..  The second is that grease, even more so than oil, consists of a mixture of components with widely differing viscosities.  As grease ages, the lights evaporate and the grease gets thicker.  Life of the average automobile (which includes a preponderance of cheap low-end models) is about 7 years and in normal service the wheel bearings get warmer and run at significantly higher RPM for significantly longer times than our lathes do.  Especially the cheaper cars with the little bitty tires.  Minimum age of the youngest Atlas lathe today is 33 years, 6 months and a few days.  Average life is probably over 50 years.  And in most of them, the original bearing are still good.  Unless a PO in the 1950's packed the bearings with grease.  My first Land Rover was retired (with its original wheel bearings) after only 27 years but only because it just wasn't up to the 80 MPH Beltway traffic with occasional bursts above 100 I was about to be subjected to in 1996 when my company was taken over by an enemy.  Otherwise, I would probably still be driving it.  But it didn't survive 27 years and the second one 17 without routine service.  By the same token, my 3996 has needed no parts replacements except for cutters in 33 years.

Also, Boomer, if you put oil into the spindle bearing oil cups this morning and it has all dripped out the bottom of the headstock this afternoon, someone must have removed and discarded the felt plugs that should be present in both oil cups.  Atlas added those some 60 years ago, probably for just this reason.  The drip pan under my machine remains dry unless I'm using cutting lubricant or get sloppy during routine service.

Robert D.



iron man said:


> Thats odd I have seen car wheel bearings run over a hundred thousand miles with out a repack and a good grease should not get hard unless mixed with dirt. I would think the biggest problem would be stopping dirt from getting to the bearings if a seal of any kind could be made then a packed bearing should run a very long time these lathes dont turn very fast not like the pressure, heat or speed of a car or truck it is the same bearing you know. Ray


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## iron man (Aug 26, 2014)

No I understand but the point that you have missed is once you pack them with grease you dont need the oil cups also with the new synthetic grease it does not loose its (lights) so to speak grease and oil never wears out it is the dirt that causes it to clump together if you could build a filter that would remove all debris from oil you would never have to change it. There are machines all over this world running with permanetly sealed packed bearings that never see any service. These home shop lathes do not generate the heat or the pressure that some machines develop or that a wheel bearing develops so it would be possible to do and you would not see a bearing failer in your life time leave that problem for the next guy if it even happens. Ray

 PS I have seen modern cars with over 200,000 miles without a bearing change or service.


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## kd4gij (Aug 26, 2014)

Well these old lathes don't have dust seals in the bearings. Oil will flush the crud out. That is why most machines even to day use oil. The grease will hold the fine stuff in and grind away at your bearings. But hay it is your lathe use grease if you chose.


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## iron man (Aug 26, 2014)

kd4gij said:


> Well these old lathes don't have dust seals in the bearings. Oil will flush the crud out. That is why most machines even to day use oil. The grease will hold the fine stuff in and grind away at your bearings. But hay it is your lathe use grease if you chose.



 If you really read the post you would see I said dirt would be the biggest problem and if you could figure out a way to seal it up it would work. Never mind I give up..


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## wa5cab (Aug 27, 2014)

This thread started with a simple question - is it OK to use grease instead of oil on the Atlas lathe headstock spindle bearings.  The short answer is no.  It's a bad idea.

You might be able to find seals that would fit both the existing headstock bore and the existing spindle diameters and convert the headstock from double shielded to double sealed bearings.  If not, you could almost certainly find seals that fit the spindle and line bore the headstock to fit.  But at the end of the day, the lathes will work no better and last no longer than they would when you started.  Ifn it ain't broke, don't fix it. 

As a side note, if you have a problem with the oil you put into the spindle bearing oil cups quickly ending up in your chip pan, your cups are missing their felt plugs.  Call Clausing and order a pair.

Robert D.


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## Kernbigo (Aug 30, 2014)

I used to rebuild high speed grinder spindles and the bearing manufactures would say the bearings would last 3-4 longer with oil than grease packed. In the first place most people pack to much grease in a bearing, should be 1/3 capacity of the bearing, other wise they will over heat.


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