# Not Exactly A Traditional Hobbyest Machine...



## wrmiller (Oct 24, 2015)

I'm still thinking that when I retire and move back to AZ (now maybe the QueenCreek area) I would like to upgrade my mill one last time. Depending upon available funds at that time, the short list will likely be:

PM935TV
Sharp LMV w/digital head
PM949EV

The prices range from approx. $7k-$9k. 

I didn't even know Matt carried the PM949EV, though I had heard that he carried a larger Taiwan mill than the 935 (Matt says built in the same factory). When I asked him if he carried a EVS (electronic variable speed) mill, he told me about this one.

For those who like machine pics, and who here doesn't, Matt did send me a snapshot of one.







Like I said, not what some would consider a 'hobby mill' (well, Jim likely does. ) by most folks, but there seems to be a significant number of members here with larger machines.


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## coolidge (Oct 24, 2015)

Need to see some more pics and specs but it looks like a nice mill. I'm not a big fan of how they mounted the read out, electrical, and light but I'm picky as hell when it comes to that stuff. That's a different Y saddle than the 935 note the sloped front ala Bridgeport vs flat front on the 935. See that X limit switch the bracket is angled for that slope on purpose. Love the chip tray on the bottom and it looks like it has two drains vs one drain on the 935. What's hiding under that box over the brake some kind of off switch?

If Jim's big orange fork lift is considered a hobby machine that means pretty much any mill under 10,000 lbs is hobby class.


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## wrmiller (Oct 24, 2015)

Not quite as picky as you Charles (wink, wink), but I agree with you on the electrical control mounting. Could make for a early project.

I too wonder what that box is on the spindle brake. See what looks like a cable coming out the bottom of that cover? The brake may just be a electrical switch back to the VFD, but the makers decided to put a lever up there where the Old School guys are expecting a mechanical? Or, it could be a mechanical brake with a electrical switch to the stop input on the VFD so all you have to do to stop the spindle would be to grab the brake (my preferred option). Dunno, just supposition on my part. And sorry, but this was the only pic Matt sent me. Didn't ask for specs as this decision is still a ways off and I don't want to pester him too much.

Forgot about Jim's Big Orange. Probably because I was jealous when I saw it and immediately blocked it out...

I would have this thing drop shipped to a rigger and have them deliver it to my garage. Way too large for a lift-gate delivery.


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## coolidge (Oct 24, 2015)

What's the weight?


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## wrmiller (Oct 24, 2015)

Honestly, I don't know/didn't ask. From the looks of that knee, base, and saddle I would guesstimate around 2400 lbs. Maybe a bit more. It's only a 9x49.


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## coolidge (Oct 24, 2015)

I'm guessing 1900 lbs just to annoy you into finding out.


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## JimDawson (Oct 24, 2015)

That's a cute little mill.


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## coolidge (Oct 24, 2015)

JimDawson said:


> That's a cute little mill.



I thought it was a benchtop mill at first.


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## coolidge (Oct 24, 2015)

Bill here I searched ebay for a 'mans' mill and found you one, 10hp 5 ton 50 taper.


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## JimDawson (Oct 24, 2015)

That's a nice sized mill.

I tried to buy another today at auction, but got out bid.  The same size as mine, 10x50, Manual/CNC.  I quit biding at $1050, it went for $1250.


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## wrmiller (Oct 24, 2015)

Sheesh...thanks coolidge.

Looks more like something you or Jim could use. 

EDIT: I'd probably hurt myself (and anyone else within 100 yds.) with that thing.


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## coolidge (Oct 24, 2015)

I'm not sure even Jim's big orange beast could lift that one. The thing is only $16k and looks new.


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## wrmiller (Oct 24, 2015)

coolidge said:


> I'm not sure even Jim's big orange beast could lift that one. The thing is only $16k and looks new.



My friend that calls a BP series I "a nice hobby mill" would appreciate that one. He was talking about running a 10" face mill on one machine IIRC? That had to be quite the horse of a mill.


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## coolidge (Oct 24, 2015)

Good lord a face mill that large is beyond a cat40 spindle I think. I wonder what's he's building, a bull dozer maybe.


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## JimDawson (Oct 24, 2015)

That would be right on the edge, if everything was close coupled.  I couldn't extend the boom.


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## JimDawson (Oct 24, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> My friend that calls a BP series I "a nice hobby mill" would appreciate that one. He was talking about running a 10" face mill on one machine IIRC? That had to be quite the horse of a mill.



That's a big face mill, would take a lot of machine to run that one.


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## wrmiller (Oct 24, 2015)

Honestly don't know. Big machinery of some kind. He's retired now. He told me once that he ran a lathe making motor shafts for generators used in hydroelectric plants. I can't even imagine that.


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## coolidge (Oct 24, 2015)

My 935 went 'thunk' when I sat it down, can't imagine what 10,000 lbs would sound like if not sat down very gently.


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## coolidge (Oct 24, 2015)

Back to the mill Bill's eyeing, how many HP bill and have you thought about getting something with a CAT40 spindle since you are up in the $10k price range?


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## wrmiller (Oct 24, 2015)

3hp I think. And yes I will consider it, but I don't believe it's necessary for most of what I do. Now if I can maybe get some oddball jobs from the local machine shops in the Phoenix area it could make more sense.


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## coolidge (Oct 24, 2015)

Well there's a boat load of Cat40 tooling available both used and new, it dwarfs R8 which seems to be getting more difficult to find especially of any quality. I was looking for an R8 tap holder the last couple of days its pretty much non-existent.  I'd be more comfortable with a PDB in Cat40.


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## Sandia (Oct 25, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Not quite as picky as you Charles (wink, wink), but I agree with you on the electrical control mounting. Could make for a early project.
> 
> I too wonder what that box is on the spindle brake. See what looks like a cable coming out the bottom of that cover? The brake may just be a electrical switch back to the VFD, but the makers decided to put a lever up there where the Old School guys are expecting a mechanical? Or, it could be a mechanical brake with a electrical switch to the stop input on the VFD so all you have to do to stop the spindle would be to grab the brake (my preferred option). Dunno, just supposition on my part. And sorry, but this was the only pic Matt sent me. Didn't ask for specs as this decision is still a ways off and I don't want to pester him too much.
> 
> ...



Bill, the box on the spindle brake would contain a micro switch that disconnects power when you operate the brake. You then reset it by switching the power switch on the console to off then back on. I have the same arrangement on my Acer EVS, and it works sweet. The throw on the brake is very short which I like.


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## wrmiller (Oct 25, 2015)

coolidge said:


> Well there's a boat load of Cat40 tooling available both used and new, it dwarfs R8 which seems to be getting more difficult to find especially of any quality. I was looking for an R8 tap holder the last couple of days its pretty much non-existent.  I'd be more comfortable with a PDB in Cat40.



Cat40 still seems overkill for a hobby machine, but I will consider this, thanks coolidge.


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## wrmiller (Oct 25, 2015)

Sandia said:


> Bill, the box on the spindle brake would contain a micro switch that disconnects power when you operate the brake. You then reset it by switching the power switch on the console to off then back on. I have the same arrangement on my Acer EVS, and it works sweet. The throw on the brake is very short which I like.



Thanks Bob, that is pretty much how I figured it might work. Pretty good guess on my part.


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## tmarks11 (Oct 25, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> PM935TV
> Sharp LMV w/digital head
> PM949EV


So you are saying the 949EV is made in Taiwan?

I am (still) a big fan of the LMV.  Of course, Matt did say the (new) silver ones are made in a different plant then the (old) gray ones, which is the ones I used.


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## wrmiller (Oct 25, 2015)

Matt said the 949EV is made in the same Taiwan plant as the 935T series.

I don't have to make a decision right away. I can get parts and service from Sharp in CA, and from Matt on the other coast so that shouldn't be an issue. And I still like some of the unique aspects of the Sharp mills. Just because they are made in a different factory doesn't automatically infer better or worse quality. I still like chrome ways because they wear like diamond, but I think the turcite coatings used more commonly are just as good? I'll have to research that.

I'll narrow this stuff down the closer I get to actually moving. There is a Sharp dealer in the Phoenix area, so maybe I can get a first-hand look at one before I make a decision.


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## coolidge (Oct 25, 2015)

Yeah but if you buy that silver metal flake Sharp you will have to learn to disco dance. Bill in a white jump suit with tassels...


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## JimDawson (Oct 25, 2015)




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## mksj (Oct 25, 2015)

One of these days, I will probably upgrade to a knee mill. Since I am space limited, the PM935TV is high up on the list for my next mill. Still, if I could get past the cost and weight, at 9-10K I would probably go for the SHARP LMV-DVS 9" x 42". The Sharp VFD model runs off of single or 3 phase, so I would not need an RPC.  My main concern with these machines is getting replacement parts down the line, the Sharp should not be an issue in most of our lifetimes. The PM949EV controls and light set-up are kind of funky.

SHARP LMV-DVS STANDARD FEATURES

Meehanite® casting
Precision ABEC-7 angular contact bearings to support spindle
Spindle is ground and chromed to fit the housing to insure runout of 0.0002" T.I.R.
Motor shaft and Digital Variable Speed (DVS) drive head pulleys are dynamically balanced, then chromed for flawless fit, ground ribs on inside diameter, for smooth speed changes
Motor shaft has an oil channel in the center that is fed by grease fitting on the lower end, to keep variable speed drive pulley moving smoothing on the shaft
Roller bearing for lower support of the shaft to ensure proper loading, support and alignment to prevent the shaft from being distorted by the tension of the belt, for quite, accurate operation at any speed
High out-put double fans keep head and motor cool, to run jobs for extended periods without damaging the motor, belts and bearings
Yaskawa® inverter drive system with large LED RPM display and lower voltage control
Patented knuckle design uses 6 bolts, 3 bolts per side, securing them from the outside, it locks the head securely for better accuracy and performance
Table and saddle backlash is controlled by double nut design, keeps leadscrew in contact with bronze nuts all times to keep backlash at 0.0008" within 20"
Table and saddle are mounted with thrust bearings that preloaded the feed screw, eliminating end-play for precisely controlled lateral movement
Dovetail ways are hard chrome on saddle and column
Hand scraped saddle and knee for better oil retention to avoid chips and dirt embed in the knee and damage the sliding surface
All wear areas are oil grooved for maximum lubrication
One shot lubrication system, for lubrication of all ways and leadscrews
Machine runs 220V/3 Phase/60 Hz. or 220V/1 Phase/60 Hz


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## wrmiller (Oct 25, 2015)

If space is an issue in the new diggs, the list shortens to the 935TV and the Sharp. And if funds are available at that time, the Sharp will likely get the nod. 

If I get the Sharp, I will have to cover the table, for two reasons: One, to protect that gorgeous finish. And two, to prevent having to wear a welders helmet when milling to protect from the glare.


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## tmarks11 (Oct 25, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> If space is an issue in the new diggs, the list shortens to the 935TV and the Sharp.


The 42" table make the LMV42 really that much more compact than the 49" table on the PM 949EVS?


mksj said:


> Patented knuckle design uses 6 bolts, 3 bolts per side, securing them from the outside, it locks the head securely for better accuracy and performance


Well I guess that explains why I haven't seen the 6 bolt design on any other mill.  I really liked it on the Sharps, since after tramming you could tighten left, than right in sequence, and avoid throwing the nod out of tram when tightening the knuckle.


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## wrmiller (Oct 25, 2015)

tmarks11 said:


> The 42" table make the LMV42 really that much more compact than the 49" table on the PM 949EVS?
> Well I guess that explains why I haven't seen the 6 bolt design on any other mill.  I really liked it on the Sharps, since after tramming you could tighten left, than right sound, and avoid throwing the nod out of tram when tightening the knuckle.



Sorry Tim, thought I said that (about the 6-bolt patent) in another thread. And yea, you are probably right on the table size and room required. I could crunch the numbers of the 42" plus travel vs. the 49" plus travels but I suspect a foot on either side would  more than cover it. 

The 935 would require less room than my 12Z left to right, but more room front to back.

And to add another wrinkle, Matt said the Sharp 50-LMV is only $300 more than the 9x42. Choices...


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## coolidge (Oct 25, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> And to add another wrinkle, Matt said the Sharp 50-LMV is only $300 more than the 9x42. Choices...



Matt just order one of these for Bill okay


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## wrmiller (Oct 25, 2015)

There ya go...who needs a lousy knee mill! 

Even if I could get power to something like that, one day of running that thing would cost more than a month of electricity to the house. I'm going to be living on a very meager, fixed income once I stop working. There's probably an law somewhere against having something like that in your garage...


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## tmarks11 (Oct 25, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Sorry Tim, thought I said that (about the 6-bolt patent) in another thread.


Funny, for the past couple of years, every time I look at a mill (other than a Sharp), I have been looking for the 6 bolt pattern.  Now I know why I haven't seen them on any other machine.  Guess I can stop looking at other brands...


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## jer (Oct 25, 2015)

That looks like a good one Bill. I would probably be tickled to death with whatever you are selling when you leave CO to retire. LOL...


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## wrmiller (Oct 25, 2015)

Hey jer,

I will likely put the 12Z on Craigslist and the For Sale forum here when I get ready to move. Maybe the PM25 too. We'll see.

Won't be for at least a couple more years though.


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## jer (Oct 25, 2015)

I know what you mean about the retiring thing. I just retired in Jan. It feels good to be gainfully unemployed for the first time in 45 years. I hope to have a mill if not by the end of the year, within the next year. The three PMs mentioned are in the running, but have a local friend selling his deceased brothers older mill for his nephew. it sounds like a smaller BP clone machine.

Jerry


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## bkcorwin (Oct 26, 2015)

If you have any questions about the sharp I may be able to help.  Mines a bit older at a 2003 model, but I have a sharp lmv-50 dvs head knee mill with an anilam 3000 controller.  I've been very happy with it and the quality seems very good.  I have an enco knee mill next to it, and the build quality on the sharp is superior, but its also a lot newer and in better condition overall.  

Something simple, but the oil lines in the saddle are all hard lines as opposed to the flexible tubing of my enco and bridgeports.


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## MG-42 (Oct 31, 2015)

I would have to ask why Queen Creek when Cave Creek is so much nicer, just kidding.


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## wrmiller (Oct 31, 2015)

MG-42 said:


> I would have to ask why Queen Creek when Cave Creek is so much nicer, just kidding.



Don't know that area very well, so I don't know where Cave Creek is. 

Our daughter and her family just bought a house there and her and my wife are very close (like 3-5 calls a day...), and I've been told we're moving there when I quit working. Happy wife, happy life. Hey, she's been putting up with all my machine purchases, so it's her turn.

That and the Mesa shooting facility is not too far away and I want to get back into my USPSA competition shooting.


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