# Vise Rehab



## Monk (Jul 12, 2014)

Does anyone have experience with welding up and face milling holes in a vise bed? Can it be done without warping the surfaces?  I inherited an old Chinese vise (at least 20 to 25 years old) from a friend's machine shop. It has 25 years worth of accidents (see pic). I cleaned it up and painted it. The vise seems to be otherwise tight and serviceable. I have a 5 inch Magnum vise I used on my mill/drill that gets me by on the BP, but a six inch vise would give me more room for bigger projects. Any advice/experience shared would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


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## Senna (Jul 12, 2014)

With the bed that beat up what do you have to lose?
I'm thinking a surface grinder might work better than a facemill for cleaning up the surface.
Welding CI involves a process but if you can do it then I say go for it.

I marvel at how someone could be so utterly clueless as to drill through the entire bed of a vise without being aware of it.


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## Uglydog (Jul 12, 2014)

Senna said:


> With the bed that beat up what do you have to lose?
> I'm thinking a surface grinder might work better than a facemill for cleaning up the surface.
> Welding CI involves a process but if you can do it then I say go for it.
> 
> I marvel at how someone could be so utterly clueless as to drill through the entire bed of a vise without being aware of it.



Yep, I agree with Ken.
What have you got to lose?

You may want to do some reading about heat treating and learn how you can best return the vise to optimal properties. 
This will also help to keep it flat and operable. If she tacos/warps she may not work as a vise anymore.
The other thing is to make sure that she isn't to soft or to brittle.
With this many holes she is likely going to get pretty warm. 

Have you had a chance to read any of the heat treat threads?

Daryl
MN


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## Baithog (Jul 12, 2014)

So the vice is functional, even with the extra holes? So why risk ruining it to make it pretty? If the repair fails, you get to go out and buy a new vise for a new price, or a used one for almost as much. So I'd say that you do have something to loose. If it was mine, I'd just use it. And if I just needed to make it pretty, Id try something like castaloy. It's a low temperature (500F) soldering/brazing process. You cold even do that in the kitchen oven if SWMBO doesn't catch you.


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## John Hasler (Jul 12, 2014)

Baithog said:


> So the vice is functional, even with the extra holes? So why risk ruining it to make it pretty? If the repair fails, you get to go out and buy a new vise for a new price, or a used one for almost as much. So I'd say that you do have something to loose. If it was mine, I'd just use it. And if I just needed to make it pretty, Id try something like castaloy. It's a low temperature (500F) soldering/brazing process. You cold even do that in the kitchen oven if SWMBO doesn't catch you.



I'd just fill the holes with epoxy.


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## rafe (Jul 12, 2014)

I agree , I'd just use it the way it is, if it functions as it should why bother ....don't try to make a silk purse out of a sows ear ....


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## Monk (Jul 12, 2014)

Thanks to everyone for the help. Several of you voiced the same concerns I had about warping, etc. Since all I need is a level surface, parallel to the table, so that my parallels remain true, I'd considered running a hand tap a little ways in to rough the holes a little and then filling with liquid steel, or with epoxy as suggested, and then facing it off. It's not like I'll be pounding on the surface, or anything. Does that sound reasonable?
I'm with you, Senna, about drilling into a vise being clueless. But then, I'm working with tools I paid for with my own hard earned money. That vise has seen decades of use in a high volume shop with a proportionate number of apprentices who probably didn't get the "clue" until they'd already screwed the pooch ). Thanks, again everyone

Monk


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## Uglydog (Jul 12, 2014)

Monk said:


> running a hand tap a little ways in to rough the holes a little and then filling with liquid steel, or with epoxy as suggested, and then facing it off.



I've heard of JB Weld Users having good luck mixing some swarf/chips of similar steel into the adhesive.


Is it possible that "powerfeeds" are by definition dangerous to inattentive users regardless of years of experience?


Daryl
MN


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## Bill C. (Jul 12, 2014)

Monk said:


> Does anyone have experience with welding up and face milling holes in a vise bed? Can it be done without warping the surfaces?  I inherited an old Chinese vise (at least 20 to 25 years old) from a friend's machine shop. It has 25 years worth of accidents (see pic). I cleaned it up and painted it. The vise seems to be otherwise tight and serviceable. I have a 5 inch Magnum vise I used on my mill/drill that gets me by on the BP, but a six inch vise would give me more room for bigger projects. Any advice/experience shared would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
> 
> View attachment 79969



If all least fails you could use JB Weld to fill the holes.  Good luck, I used a few of those vises and slotted tables.  If nothing else the holes collect coolant and chips.


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## GarageGuy (Jul 12, 2014)

I agree with John and rafe.  I would epoxy the holes, and maybe shoot it with some paint to make it look better.  If it works good but is just cosmetically ugly, I wouldn't risk welding/warping it.  It's still a good usable vise.  Best of luck,

GG


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## dulltool17 (Jul 12, 2014)

Yeah, If it was functional and sound, I'd go for JB weld or a Devcon product and clean it up.  I'm pretty sure welding CI isn't for the faint-hearted.

Good luck.

Doug


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## Andre (Jul 12, 2014)

My vise is filled with tons of holes from a previous, previous, owner. They do not hurt a thing although they do collect fine chips.

Do you have a welding shop nearby that can TIG them with NI99 rod or braze the holes? Then work the filler down barely down past the surface of the vise, maybe by a thou and you'll be set. You need to get them below the surface because filler will expand and contract differently than the bed of the vise, and you don't want it popping above the bed of the vise.


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## chips&more (Jul 12, 2014)

I would use Devcon liquid steel, I love that stuff, works great! And then carefully draw file smooth. If you weld it, first you must be a good welder, that kind of welding requires some talent and knowledge. Then, you are not guaranteed it won’t crack and or warp after welding. The Devcon stuff is also a pretty good color match to cast iron and holds up well to abrasion. Try it, you might like it…Good Luck.


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## Monk (Jul 12, 2014)

Thanks again, all. I'll post again when I get it done.


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## ScrapMetal (Jul 13, 2014)

Could a person just mill out the bad sections, say 1/8" deep and then lay in a new slab of CI over the areas?  You'd have to have it ground to match the original surface most likely but I would think it's possible.


JMHO

-Ron


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## Frank Ford (Jul 13, 2014)

Senna said:


> I marvel at how someone could be so utterly clueless as to drill through the entire bed of a vise without being aware of it.



That kind of thing amazed me, too, before I had employees. . .


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## Marco Bernardini (Jul 13, 2014)

Frank Ford said:


> That kind of thing amazed me, too, before I had employees. . .



I think OSHA would have some complains if employees would be obliged to keep their hand between the piece and the vise… but guys nicknamed "sieved hand" would hardly find a job in a shop.
:roflmao:


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## george wilson (Jul 13, 2014)

No,you certainly cannot just mill the holes away. The vise's screw would no longer even begin to line up with everything. You would also end up with a weak,flexible vise.

If you must do something,fill the holes as suggested. Welding or brazing will end up with warping the base. Then,you will have another bunch of problems worse that the holes. You might spend the cost of a new vise having everything re ground. And,the screw might not line up of much was taken off.


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## dlancello (Jul 13, 2014)

I wouldn't have a problem with welding/filling the holes. Take the jaws and screw etc off and clamp it to a flat surface. TIG weld the holes tap and put a screw into the really deep ones. Let them cool and dress flat ( face mill or grind). Check the hardness with the old file method. 
I have used this method to repair firing pin holes that have become too large and rarely does it change the heat treatment.


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## ScrapMetal (Jul 13, 2014)

george wilson said:


> No,you certainly cannot just mill the holes away. The vise's screw would no longer even begin to line up with everything. You would also end up with a weak,flexible vise.
> 
> If you must do something,fill the holes as suggested. Welding or brazing will end up with warping the base. Then,you will have another bunch of problems worse that the holes. You might spend the cost of a new vise having everything re ground. And,the screw might not line up of much was taken off.



Thanks George.  I didn't know if just cutting off an eighth or so of the surface would cause the vise to warp.  Good to know.

-Ron


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## jester69 (Jul 14, 2014)

I have a 6" yausa vice a guy at a machine shop gave me, it had holes all over it,even down on the nut the lead screw goes thru, so I had nothing to lose, I cleaned it and degreased it and heated it up on my fish cooker, then I brazed in the holes but I'm not to good at it. when I milled it down the brazed popped out of most of the holes, so I melted the braze out and used some NI99 rods after heating it up again covered it in sand and the next day washed off good, put it on the mill and milled ever thing down flat, painted it and it works great no warp that I can tell.
Rick


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## george wilson (Jul 14, 2014)

You are lucky.


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## Restorer (Jul 14, 2014)

Monk,  I sympathize with your dilemma.  When others walk into your shop they may think you made that mess.

You will be happier with another vise for machining.  Use the drilled one in the weld shop.

If you NEED to fix it, I suggest dissemble the vise. Drill down a short distance and tap the hole (Bottoming Tap) for a screw larger OD than the divot.
Mix some epoxy, apply in the hole and around a soft bolt.  Screw the bolt in and torque.  Next day cutoff the bolt about 1/16 proud of the surface.
With the ball end of a ball peen hammer, peen around the edge of the bolt threads to swage the metal tight at the periphery.

Then machine the bolt down to the original surface removing very little original material.
Cast Iron is sufficiently porous that oil soaks in over time.  It then becomes very difficult to weld.   The oil vaporizes and makes the weld very porous and weak.   The only success I have had is to soak the part in an industrial paint stripping bath for 8 hours.  The bath was boiling water and Oakite 32, which may no longer available because it is toxic.
Welding and brazing each run the risk of warping the vise.  If it warps it will be junk.


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## iron man (Jul 14, 2014)

I have brazed up some in the past and remachined all surfaces if you arc on it with a TIG or stick you will have hard spots and you will have to grind. I kind of agree with a low temp solution such as solder or something similar if your going to use JB weld you might as well put bondo in there. Ray


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## Scruffy (Jul 14, 2014)

clean very it very well. j b. weld mixed with small metal chips. then file smooth.
scruffy


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## george wilson (Jul 15, 2014)

The vise could be repaired with a vise jack. Jack up the old vise,and put a new one under it!!!


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## Monk (Aug 2, 2014)

Good one George.).  I've been down with pneumonia off an on for the last month, so progress was pretty slow. I opted for the JB weld route (didn't have much to lose). I put two layers of the JB weld on and then used an end mill to get it down to about 5 thousands over, 





Then I ran a face mill over it until I got it down to about a half a thousandth under (just started to score the surface). Then I put a stone to it




I put a parallel in the jaws and ran and indicator over it, and it was less than a thousandth off from end to end which is close enough for most of the things I'll be doing. I had soaked it in kerosene to loosen up all the crud, and cleaned it up and painted it to match the BP before I started the process. Unfortunately I knocked a little paint off in the process and will have to touch it up. Maybe a new set of jaws, too. I'd like to have a Kurt, but this will have to do me for a while


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## drs23 (Aug 2, 2014)

Monk said:


> Good one George.).  I've been down with pneumonia off an on for the last month, so progress was pretty slow. I opted for the JB weld route (didn't have much to lose). I put two layers of the JB weld on and then used an end mill to get it down to about 5 thousands over,
> 
> View attachment 81240
> View attachment 81241
> ...



Good job! Very impressive and should serve you for years.


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