# Total beginner needs help selecting PM lathe



## USMA84DAB (Mar 17, 2020)

Just spent 2+ hours reading prior threads about this topic. Want to run the scenario by the gallery of experts to head in the right direction.

Background - I am a veteran in the VA Vocational Rehab program. 100% disabled. (Don't be fooled - the VA disability rating system is a mix of witchcraft and voodoo - I still intend to be self-reliant and earn my keep.) I will go to Trinidad State gunsmithing school in June (Coronavirus allowing). The intent of buying a PM lathe is to build rifles in my home business. I intend to get to 20 hour work weeks, accommodating standing/sitting times for the jump school-fostered back challenge, as well as the other souvenirs from my time with Uncle Sam. My intent is to get 20 years out of this rifle shop. At 77, that would be enough and I figure I will have earned my keep.

I must submit a list of required tooling (with justifications outlining why I need it) to the VA in order to support my request for the grant to buy the machinery. I am examining the PM 1440GS, 1440BV, and the 1440GT. Features that my instructor at Trinidad State has pointed me towards are: 2" spindle, ability to use low RPMs, slow/fine feed rates, variable speeds.

I have "heard" from reading here, and from my instructor at school, that mainland equipment is to be avoided. This would eliminate the GS & BV. The price tag of $10,222.94 for the GT is breathtaking, however. I want to be relatively certain that this level of machinery is necessary to build dangerous game rifles and such before I waltz into the VA and stick my paw out asking for $10,000+ for one piece of machinery. If that is the price of admission to the ballgame, so be it. I just have to have my ducks in a row when I take that news in to the case worker.

If not for the point of manufacture, it would seem that the GS model is ideal. Am I missing something? Is the China manufacturing issue being made too much of? $6,783.91 is alot less than $10K!

The BV has the unicorn of variable speed, no spider, and China ancestry. Why or why not choose this model? $7,683.91 is $1K more than the GS for, basically, the variable speed? Am I missing anything else? Is variable speed crucial to barreling rifles?

As I read and tried to understand the prior threads about adding variable controllers I started to convulse. Re-wiring the lathe, as in the GT purchase thread, scares the bejeebers out of me. Just from a practical standpoint, with the endurance/stamina issues I have to manage, it sounds like I will spend the first two months of "working" on assembling and upgrading/finishing the lathe. Two months of work with no revenue is not attractive. Then there is setting up the mill. Will I ever earn a dollar? A bit dramatized, but hope it illustrates the view from my foxhole.

I have some time on mills while bedding rifles at GA Precision. I observed lathe operations to learn about them, but got very little hands-on time.

I simply do not possess the technical expertise, and certainly not the experience, to effectively weigh out these three options. I could really use the experience of you guys here to get me pointed onto the correct mix of features/capabilities of these three machines. I need to get the Goldilocks lathe. Then I can focus on effectively barreling rifles vs. building or redesigning/repairing the lathe.

Thanks a Chinese boatload, in advance, for your help!!!!


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## parshal (Mar 17, 2020)

I recently went this same debate for reaming and threading bolt action barrels.  I ended up going with a 3-phase 1340GT and added a VFD.  It's got as much low-end grunt that you'd want, variable speed and a proximity stop.  In the end, it was about $10K.  I don't personally think you need the 2" spindle bore but I guess it would be nice to have.  I've not run into anything that I can't run through my spindle.  The proximity stop for threading, 3-phase motor with 1-phase input is worth not have a 2" spindle.

Mark Jacobs, mksj on here, can help with the VFD.  It was daunting for me but there are lots of people here that can help.  It won't be two months of working on the lathe.  It'll be a week of work with 3-4 weeks waiting on all your parts.  LOL


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## USMA84DAB (Mar 17, 2020)

Need to add that three phase is not available to my location.


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## middle.road (Mar 17, 2020)

USMA84DAB said:


> Need to add that three phase is not available to my location.


The VFD mentioned in @parshal's reply covers that.
It's what most of home hobbyists use with single phase.
Threads about VFDs here on H-M --> -=- LINKs -=-


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## erikmannie (Mar 17, 2020)

Just my two cents:
(1) I appreciate your service,
(2) Great choice to buy a Precision Matthews,
(3) Try to swing a Taiwanese model,
(4) Don’t sweat running 3 phase on your single phase 220V. A lot of ways to go with that.


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## tq60 (Mar 17, 2020)

I thought that you could order pm equipment with VFD preinstalled?

They seem to be a great vendor as we have read nothing but good things.

Here is our suggestion...make PM earn the sale...

Call them on the phone or request a call on his web page.

Have the discussion of what you want to do and let him give you the information needed to help you decide on the model.

3 phase electrics cannot be beat as the motors are usually industrial where single phase are maybe more towards retail quality.

Proper VFD allows single phase operation and infinite variable speed.

Our old SB 14.5 in back gear dies MPR...Minutes Per Rev.

Great for turning to a shoulder.

PM may also be able to provide suitable documentation to support your grant application, the sale is the motivation.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## GL (Mar 17, 2020)

Not specifically gunsmithing, but I do have a 1340GT and will be doing some in the future.  As others have said, doubt if you need 2" bore - fun, but not required.  If you are going to chamber barrels, the 1340 is a fine choice, accuracy is excellent.  If you intend to turn tapers on barrel blanks, you need a taper attachment.  The 1340GT will do it, but isn't as rigid a machine as the 1440 class - gravity is your friend, buy pounds to get the rigidity you'll need for long cuts with enough depth of cut to make carbide inserts work.   Also (1340GT), low speed for threading is 90rpm.  High on pucker for threading to a shoulder .  Two work arounds:  VFD with a precision stop (also takes care of single phase input to drive 3 phase motor, see Mksj), or watch Joe Pie's upside down threading away from the spindle video (tool upside down, he doesn't stand on his head).   I emphasize with you.  Most of us probably fussed with the same decision for longer than we spent with most of the other life changing decisions in your life, and most of those other things cost more (car, house, wife, kids, dog, etc. - mostly it all works out, well except you can't leave the kids on the side of the road "they" say.)  Tooling is always the elephant in the room.  Easy to spend as much as the lathe.  Kind of like the old axiom, spend as much for the scope as you spent for the rifle.  If you only have one dip in the well, look at tooling also (boring bars, insert tools, replacement inserts, good 4 jaw chuck, DRO could be fun but not required, good drill chuck, good live center, etc.).  Drills, taps.  What about a mill and that whole other can of worms.  As I reread this it sounds a little daunting, but you are essentially starting a business where you don't have the luxury of time to collect all the stuff many have spent a good chunk of our lives pulling together.  You do have the advantags of knowing what you are going to do, as opposed to just getting a lathe to "make stuff", and allows you to really focus on the problem.  As others have said, thank you for your service (that seems hollow sometimes, but you hurt from believing in a bigger picture, not just from a high school football injury) - so really, thank you.  And good luck.


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## USMA84DAB (Mar 17, 2020)

GL - see you are "just down the road" in Lawrence - maybe I could sweet talk you into a show and tell of your lathe?

TQ60 - will employ your counsel about the sale

All - will see what PM says about factory installed VFD


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## erikmannie (Mar 17, 2020)

USMA84DAB said:


> GL - see you are "just down the road" in Lawrence - maybe I could sweet talk you into a show and tell of your lathe?
> 
> TQ60 - will employ your counsel about the sale
> 
> All - will see what PM says about factory installed VFD



You are going to be very impressed with Precision Matthews’ customer support.


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## GL (Mar 17, 2020)

USMA84DAB said:


> GL - see you are "just down the road" in Lawrence - maybe I could sweet talk you into a show and tell of your lathe?
> 
> Would be glad to give you a tour.   You are about an hour to here, another 20 minutes to the shop.  Send me a chat and we can figure something out.


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## Aaron_W (Mar 17, 2020)

I can't help you with the choice of machine,  but make sure you are also budgeting for tooling, not just the machine. It is not unusual to spend as much or more than the cost of the machine on the stuff to use with the machine. 

It would not be at all hard to spend $1000 just on quality basic measuring tools.


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## USMA84DAB (Mar 17, 2020)

I have put the extra/required tools into the costs - $10,322.93 for the 1440 GT; $7,683.91 for the 1440 BV; $6,783.91 for the 1440 GS - end mills, etc., are on the tooling list for classes this summer, and the measuring tools are rolled into there too. I also am asking for start-up funds to handle forgotten/unrealized needs.


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## mksj (Mar 18, 2020)

It is a tough decision to make, all the lathes are very good choices. I also see that the 1440GS is back in stock. There are some fairly extensive discussions on these lathe models in previous threads/postings which shed some light on the pros/cons. As parshal and GL pointed out the PM-1340GT should also be on the short list. I owned a 1340GT for about 6 years and sold it to a full time gunsmith, and have made many VFD systems for it and the 1440GT with the primary use was for gunsmiths. Both will easily turn accuracy to better than 0.001". I personally prefer Taiwanese made machines as opposed to mainland China at this price level because their quality and QC is better, very noticeable in the fit/finish. It is not all the bells and whistles, accessories that come with the machine but how well it works and the user's enjoyment of the machine. I feel the symbiosis is a bit better working with the 1340/1440GT models. You pay a premium of about 20-25% buying a Taiwanese machine, but you need to consider things like chucks that come with the machine and other components.

It does at the end of the day come down to the budget. Please be aware that the 2" spindle size is unique to the QMT lathes, I am not aware of any other manufactures lathes in the sub 10K range that offer this. I am also not aware of the standard D1-4 spindle of 1.59" being a limitation for gunsmiths unless you plan on doing very large caliber rifles. The 1340GT has a very short headstock, the 1440Gt is not much longer, which makes them both more attractive for shorter barrels.  The 1340GT has a universal gearbox, but is an older open style Norton type so a bit more messy.  One of my main concerns when purchasing the 1340GT was not having a foot brake, adding a VFD will give you 1-2 second braking times. My current lathe has a foot brake, but I only use it for locking the spindle for things like manual tapping. Under standard use or E-Stop I use the VFD braking which can be set to either 1 or 3 second braking. Threading, I use a proximity stop and 1 second braking, I thread at 250-450 RPM.

The 1440 BV and GS have gotten good reviews, but there have been a few QC issues. If the primary use is for gunsmithing, I probably would recommend the 3 phase 1340GT or 1440GT with a VFD. I have outlined a basic VFD install for either of these models, the VFD adds a lot of benefits in my experience in numerous installations that I have been involved with. A 3 phase motor will also give you a much better surface finish. I would estimate that of the gunsmiths buying these lathes 3/4 purchase the 1340GT and 1/4 get the 1440GT. Most add a VFD as opposed to RPC. A basic VFD install will run around $600 were you buy the components and do the install. QMT can provide some guidance documents. I have also posted some information, but I can also send you some additional information if you decide to go that route.

I think you will surprised at the end of the day how much goes into tooling/add ons for the lathe. It is easy to have 3-5K in chucks, tooling and measurement tools for the lathe, not including specialty tools for gunsmithing. Some of the measurement tooling you could pick up used either through local sales or eBay, but you need to know what you are looking for and be careful of a lot of fake measurement tools like Mitutoyo calipers. On chucks, I would suggest upgrading to the Chandox 3J Set-Tru scroll (6 or 8" sold by QMT), the Taiwanese 8" 4J independent direct mount (sold by QMT), and either a Bison/TMX 5C chcuck with collet set (sold by QMT and other vendors) or something like the Shar's ER-40 set-tru chuck and back plate for the particular lathe. You do need some form of collet holding system for small work under 1" and holding threaded rod, etc. Get a decent QCTP like the Aloris (sold by QMT) or the Dorian, tool holders buy 10-12 inexpensive ones from the vendor of you choice and save some $. You can quickly spend a lot more money when you get into boring bars, knurlers, and specialty tooling. QMT sells many items not listed on their website, best to ask if you are interested in something, or ask here and others can give their recommendations.

I would get a DRO, glass scales work fine, they all work well and are accurate. I have used the Easson DRO's on my last two lathes.  You need a 1 micron slim line scale on the cross slide, this is typically the default for QMT but not other companies. The installation is not so difficult on a lathe, a good learning exercise to do your own installs but may need a mill for some of the brackets.  It is important to know how to read and understand the dials and backlash on you machine and how this effects how much material is removed, the DRO helps minimize reading and counting errors. Screw up one barrel and that is the cost of the DRO. These are just tools to help you.

So back to the budget, I think you are a bit light on the numbers of what you think it is going to cost tooled up. A 1340GT tooled up as outlined with a VFD, you will probablly be in the 9-10K range.


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## davidpbest (Mar 18, 2020)

I agree with everything Mark says.   I have the 1340GT with VFD controls Mark designed and it's a terrific small lathe.  The DRO is invaluable, as are quality chucks.   And I have personally witnessed the surface finish issues Mark referenced on single-phase motor lathes in this class.   A 3-phase motor with simple VFD setup powered by 220VAC single phase is definitely the way to go IMO.  A Taiwan-made lathe is likely to give you better out-of-the-box performance and better accuracy and surface finishes longer term.  

I got the impression that you think you're going to buy a machine and start selling product within a month.   Maybe that's in the realm of possibility if you are already experienced on a lathe and know the in's and out's of tooling.   If that isn't the case, I would recommend you ignore "what's in stock" and buy the lathe that best fits your needs.  There is a learning curve here no matter which machine you buy.   

The tooling, particularly if you go head first into the carbide insert deep end of the swimming pool, can be daunting and expensive unless you know what you don't need as much as what you do.  I would recommend you think in terms of the lathe itself being 60 percent of what you need to spend, with the other 40 percent being chucks, tooling, QCTP, DRO, etc.


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## USMA84DAB (Mar 18, 2020)

MKSJ & DAVIDPBEST - thanks for your feedback/input. Some narrowing thoughts from my side

The 2" spindle IS important due to .50 caliber barrels on dangerous game rifles, or even at some point .50 BMG work. This is why I had shyed away from the 1340GT.

Given the numerous incidents of support for the Taiwanese made lathes (from prior threads and this one) it seems like the 1440GT is what I simply need to pony up for.

I hear everyone warning me about not underestimating the add-on tooling, which leads me to think maybe I am missing something. Therefore, here is what I think I will get - then you gurus tell me if I am football bat, or headed in the right direction:

1440 GT SLP 1PH - $8,499
Wedge Tool Post Set - $180
2 Axis DRO - $500
DRO Install - $300
Carriage Stop - $100
Precision 4 Jaw - $400
1/8 - 5/8 Ultra Precision keyless chuck - $130
Master Turning/Boring set - $175
Heavy Duty Live Center - $40

Total - $10,322.93 + shipping & lift ramp

1. Are these the best choices for the money?

2. Are they mediocre and I could do better buying each one from MSC?

3. What critical to have items are not included?

4. Would it be foolish to NOT buy the taper attachment?


I do realize that I won't be turning product out the day I take delivery of the machine, but don't want to spend the first three months re-building/repairing/modifying the machine due to sub-par fitment and/or the mandatory modification of the machine with a VFD before I can begin using it - I think, if I am hearing you guys right, that the step up to the 1440GT should remove most of this?

Am I understanding this issue correctly? The machine will run fine by the standard gears, but the accepted practice or norm now is to modify it with a VFD. The VFD makes a single phase motor run like a 3 phase, smoothing out the revolution of the lathe to generate better finished work? Or am I supposed to get a 3 phase motor on the lathe and install the VFD so that the single phase power I have will be stepped to the 3 phase and get the better work quality? Sorry for being a bit dense here, but this topic is clear as mud to me. 

Thanks, guys for the Big Chief tablet and nickel pencil - level of explaining things to me!


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## ErichKeane (Mar 18, 2020)

$800 for a DRO is steep, they are ~$200 on ebay if you can install them yourself.  That said, a DRO on a lathe seems much less valuable than on a mill (in my experience).

For a carriage stop, that is another thing I find myself not using at all.  Instead I bought one of these (plus some inexpensive indicators): https://allindustrial.com/edge-technology-51-000-lathe-carriage-indicator-holder/

If you're going to shop for higher quality things, I suspect your budget would need to near double.  

The idea with a VFD is to buy a 3 phase motor, then use the VFD to convert 1-to-3 phase (and get all the additional advantages of a 3phase motor).


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## Stonebriar (Mar 18, 2020)

I know most of these guys are 3 phase fans, but I have a PM1440GT as does a friend of mine.  We are not gunsmiths but the single phase motor that they sell works fine for us. So its not a must to swap it out. It probably is a better and smother running motor than the single phase option. After all three phase is what industry runs.  So your call.

I have the taper attachment and it works good.  I have used it twice.  Its one of those things that you mostly don't use until one day there is a job for it.  I got it while you can get still get one.

As far as the DRO I like their DRO, but I installed it myself and it is an easy install to save $300.

Also if you don't use a credit card and send him a check you can save a few bucks.

I hope this helps some.


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## pacifica (Mar 18, 2020)

Currently I have a 1340GT, which is fine for a hobbyist but on the light side( I bolted on beefed up legs to the stand adding 600 pounds to the weight  and bolted the QCTP directly to the cross slide and removed the compound).Added VFD, DRO.Still vibrates at 600 to 750  RPM.
If I was using a lathe for any type of business use I would get the PM-1440TL. a different world in terms of heaviness, rigidity with a 10 1/4" bed width.,2.5" bore and low range of 36rpm. But....it costs more.


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## USMA84DAB (Mar 18, 2020)

Thanks Erich and Rick - yes, your comments help some!


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## mksj (Mar 18, 2020)

The 1440GT is a good compromise between the 1340GT and 1440TL at 3X the price. The general use of a VFD is so you can generate the 3 staggered power legs to run a 3 phase motor from single phase power. Some information is posted here on the 1440GT basic VFD conversion:








						PM-1440GT Basic Wiring Changes for using the Contactors to switch the VFD inputs
					

I previously outlined the use of new contactors to use to switch the VFD inputs when doing a basic 3 phase VFD lathe conversion, this retains the same functions (and interlocks) as the stock lathe and should operate the same. The VFD adds speed control, and acceleration deceleration control. In...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




Going with a 3 phase motor (as opposed to single phase) smooths the motor pulse which can show up as chatter marks in the surface finish, the degree to which this is an issue can vary significantly based on multiple factors. Even within the same model of lathe some people may have a problem while others may not.








						1340gt surface finish problem
					

O.K. guys, and gals, I've tried every speed/feed combo, every carbide insert I have, every HSS tool I have, I've even put  vibration isolation pads between the stand and the floor...nothing seems to work.  Here's what I get...   Please excuse my photography skills.  You can not only SEE the...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




There is a lot more tooling that goes with the lathe, also the general holder sets you will find are are quite lacking. You have not accounted for chucks and a number of other items that you will learn about over time.


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## jbolt (Mar 18, 2020)

I have had my 1440GT for 3-1/2 years so if you have any specific question feel free to ask.

My lathe started with a single phase motor and worked perfectly fine. I later changed it to a 3 phase mostly for the soft start, forward & reverse jog and electronic breaking. The variable speed is nice to have although I find I hardly use it. It will be more expensive to to change later if you feel it is necessary. I will also add there are a few 1440GT owners who had factory 3 phase motors that didn't play nice with VFD's and ended up swapping out the factory 3 phase motor for a aftermarket 3 phase motor.

I strongly disagree a DRO has less value on a lathe. I cut my teeth machining before DRO's were common. I have zero interest in going back to counting turns, marking dials with grease pens and setting up dial indicators. I went with magnetic scales as they are less sensitive to contamination if you use flood oil or coolant. Glass scales can work fine but may need a little extra protection.

I build 1-2 PRS rifles a year plus a few silhouette rifles. I go back and forth between chambering though the head vs using the steady rest. Both methods can produce match grade results. I wouldn't hesitate to do a 50 BMG on a steady if I didn't have enough spindle bore.

I would consider a 4-jaw chuck with two piece jaws. That allows for the use of soft jaws if the need arises for those unusual parts that seem to show up from time to time.

I know several guys who only use 4-jaw chucks. I primarily use a set-tru type 3-jaw chuck except when chambering. A time saver when a part has to go in and out of the chuck several times.

The taper attachment only does up to 10" at a time. I feel it is just as easy to offset the tailstock for doing contour work. Most barrels can be had pre-contoured from the barrel maker. If I were going to do a lot of full length contouring I would get a hydraulic tracing system.

Other gunsmith relates lathe tools:
Additional wedge tool holders
Single point threading tools
Parting tool
Grooving tools
Bolt fixture ( can also be used for short pistol barrels)
High quality digital caliper
High quality 1" & 2" micrometers
1" travel Dial indicators
0-15-0 test indicator
0-4-0 test indicator(s) (Standard, long reach and back plunger)
Mag base indicator holder(s) (I prefer Noga holders)
Adjustable indicator stem (for tail stock alignment)
Depth micrometer 0"-6"
Reamer holder
High quality chuck for the tail stock (keyed and keyless)
An assortment of HSS tool blanks
6" or 8" bench grinder
Caliber specific indicator rods


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## pontiac428 (Mar 18, 2020)

@USMA84DAB Welcome to the forum.  Voc Rehab is a good program, and I think you have a cool business idea, so don't let what I'm asking deter you.

I like working rifles a lot.  It's such a great application for machine work, and it is challenging to produce a 10-X rifle.  In general, a PTG reamer costs $200.  A highly reputable outfit like Kreiger Barrels will chamber a barrel to an action for $250 (IIRC).  That means there is $50 profit in the first barrel to cover the reamer, and you need one for every caliber your customers want.  The wait time for a reamer can be 6 months or more, so you'll need the common ones on hand.  I guess what I am asking in a roundabout way is, how long will it take you to become profitable?  I understand that once you establish a reputation for amazing precision and quality, you'll have work backlogged for months, but without a reputation the work will come in slower and you won't be able to charge as much.  It seems like a tough business to be in, which is why I'm not doing it for profit.  So I am curious about your business plan, and I am glad to see someone here who is doing it.  Thanks!


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## parshal (Mar 18, 2020)

Like jbolt, I also use a set-tru 3 jaw for chambering.  I have two of them plus a 4 jaw and I rarely use the 4 jaw except for square parts.  I also have an ER40 collet chuck which I use for holding small parts.  You may not think you'll do small parts but I assure you that you will.  You'll end up making little tools as you start getting into chambering.

In addition to a bolt fixture you'll probably end up buying or making an action truing jig.  

If you chamber through the headstock you'll need to make a spider for the outboard side unless you buy a Tru Bore Alignment System (TBAS).  On my first lathe, I had to chamber in a steady rest and it made some great rifles.  If I were need to chamber a barrel that won't fit in my 1.59" bore I'd not hesitate to use a steady rest.  Unless you are specifically setting up to do 50 cal I'd go with the 1340 and get all the goodies with it for about the same price as the 1440 with fewer goodies.  Being able to thread with a proximity stop is the best thing in the world.  That's the single best thing I've got on the lathe.

With the reamers you'll need an assortment of bushings in different diameters for each caliber.  Those little buggers get expensive in a hurry for what they are.


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## USMA84DAB (Mar 18, 2020)

MKSJ - thanks for the teaching about the VFD. 

JBOLT - you are starting to tell me the things I haven't understood or known - like if I HAD to do a .50 cal barrel, I could do it on steady rests - given that, then there is no reason to not select the 1340GT. (Don't HAVE to have the 2" spindle)

Now - the tooling - guys - I simply do not know SPECIFICALLY what additional tools I am gonna need - JBOLT started to list things out - some I have heard of, some are totally new to me - What are the sources? Prices? What are they for? Where do I get a Tru-bore alignment system? I guess I am leading to the question of doesn't this website have a list of items that one absolutely must have/things that are needed to be productive/things that are real work savers once you get going? This would be a great sticky to have somewhere on the site so knotheads like me don't chew up all of your time with the same questions over and over. I have a basic tooling list for class this summer, but you guys have already begun exploding that bare minimum starting list. I really need specificity and an explanation for many tools/options in order to get the VA's buy-off on funding it.

0-15-0 test indicator?

0-4-0 test indicator?

High quality chuck - what is wrong with the ones sold by PM?

Where do you recommend I get a bolt fixture? How many additional wedge tool holders beyond the set sold with the lathe on PM?

Yep - there are reamers, bushings, headspace gauges, yadda, yadda, yadda. Would it help you guys to help me, if I typed in the tooling list for the classes at Trinidad State? Would this give you clarity on what they expect and where I am starting from? Or are you all such massive brainiacs that you don't need this? Just trying to understand how to get what I will need, as well as what to share with you so you can help me - and because of my ignorance in this field, I am struggling to understand your help.

PONTIAC428 - if you start a conversation with me and send your e-mail, I will just send you my business plan - the short answer is that I won't have loans, have a shop already, am only able to work about 20 hours/week, and would take in a 50% deposit before beginning each rifle build. Thus, buy the reamer, or pay myself back for having already bought the common ones, or rent one for a job that has a short deadline. Also, I have 8 rifles already spoken for by friends to get started, so this is another reason/the driver for not having to rebuild/repair/modify the machine, and rather to get started turning out work. Around KC here, there are not many gunsmiths, so I am betting on there being work to do even before I get to build new ones.

Sorry you need to get so simplistic in explaining things.


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## wrmiller (Mar 18, 2020)

I have told people before, that if you're going to spend the extra money to buy a quality Taiwan made lathe, then put quality extras on it as well. Otherwise, you're just pissing away money on the lathe. But that's just my opinion. 

I have a 1340GT 3-phase (w/VFD) that I used to do hobby stuff and pistolsmithing. Occasionally some rifle work, but that is the exception not the rule. I have a DroPros EL400 lathe specific DRO with mag scales ( with a .00005" scale on the cross slide). I have a Dorian tool post and use Aloris tool holders when repeatability is critical. I spent big bucks (well, to me anyway) on a Pratt Burnerd 8" setrite 3-jaw chuck. Most expensive darn chuck I've ever bought. And the most accurate and repeatable chuck I've ever owned. I use this chuck more than the other two combined. I don't remember what I spent on that chuck, but I'm pretty sure it was closer to $2k than it was $1k.

Mksj did a control board and wiring for me, along with a electronic stop that I use when threading. I love the soft-start feature of the VFD, the variable speed, and the fact that I can switch between 1 and 3 second braking (no foot brake on the 1340, but I don't miss it).  

When I'm trying to hit a critical dimension, I can literally dial in .0004" on the DRO readout (.0002" DOC), and cut exactly that. 

Not trying to brag, just saying that the lathe is more accurate than I am.  But it may not be if I had scrimped on the accessories. It's a judgement call for sure, and I'm not sure what you can get the VA to buy off on.

Best of luck with your new venture!


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## GL (Mar 18, 2020)

There are many threads on this site where others have asked similar questions.  What lathe/mill/? to buy..  What's best? Etc..  The problem is that no list is definitive for everyone - so a list, by part number, doesn't exist .  I guess I tried to suggest that you had the luxury of a known need, instead of an arbitrary desire to learn about machining.  You have, without knowing it,  pulled in some of the "heavy hitters" on this site - those who have over time have given their of time and shared their vast experience.  There are tool junkies here, all will help you spend money, but the advice given in this thread has been prudent - some by actual gunsmiths, some by people who make things out of metal.  To help you understand, you might look at catalogs or websites like Travers, MSC, or Shars - look at the test indicators, and chucks, and calipers etc that have been suggested to familiarize yourself with the lingo.  These are just representative vendors, better deals may exist in other places and other suggestions will probably emerge, but this is more about education than shopping at this point.  In most cases, "expensive " is the good stuff.  The best mechanics I know don't own Snap-on tools, just "better than average " Craftsman.  Starrett, Mittitoyo, Tessa , Interapid are among others are the good stuff.  Most have acquired over years, probably most of it used instead of new.  You don't have the luxury of time.  To further your education, there are lots of good utube educators out there that are excellent.  The value you glean may be a function of where you are, but they all have something to offer.  Mrpete222, oxtoolco, Joe Piecenski , abom79, blondiehacks , thisoldtony, to name a few popular channels.  At the end of the day, machining is about understanding a few basic processes and applying it to your specific problem.  "Really good" tools often make things easier, and lessor tools make things possible with a bit more thought.   And the offer still stands.


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## Naptown Gaijin (Apr 10, 2020)

USMA84DAB said:


> High quality chuck - what is wrong with the ones sold by PM?



West Point class of '84, I presume....
I was USAF OTS (class 1977-08), and am also looking to get into making a couple firearms.  

I have spent over 50 years around firearms, and have a few thoughts for you. Please see the attached word doc.


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## USMA84DAB (Apr 12, 2020)

Naptown - 

Will look up Powers

Already hooked in to Brownells as a dealer

Will contact Nadeja

I have been watching Tubalcain

Will look for Eric Vahler's videos

I am on board for a 1340 from Taiwan

My instructor has pointed me at the same types of tools.

I am aware of the tons and tons of support tools - I have been told that if the grant request breaks $25K, it goes to Washington, District of Criminals for approval. No one has ever seen a grant request come back from DC approved. I am looking at the mill, then the lathe.

#9 - I am tracking - plan on rifle building, and maintenance/gunsmithing stuff.

#10 - got my class 7 FFL in FEB - had a great time with the zoning Nazis at the county, but got through that

While I am not a Leg (a 5 jump chump, and a dope on a rope as well), I will take all the help I can get from you Zoomies up there - who the stink would spurn a pair of A-10s, or Strike Eagles dropping napalm, or clusters, or even just 500 pounders? A Scout's push to talk switch to speak to you guys - THAT is a weapon!

Thanks for the input - it helps to get a sounding/azimuth check from others!

My summer classes are now cut by 3/4 due to the Chinese Flu. I am gonna forecast that the VA will then say that because I cannot attend the classes this summer, then they can't do the feasibility study on the business idea, so therefore, can't provide the grant money. I am starting to build rifles this next week, as I have some people already stacked up waiting for work. Hand reaming a chamber is alot harder, but I have done it before.

Will keep you lads posted on what is going on.


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