# Tricks of the Trade



## tjb (Feb 15, 2021)

I'd like to suggest a discussion that I suspect would have broad appeal for us amateurs and, perhaps, some of our more experienced members, as well.

This morning, while machining a piece of aluminum, I came up with an interesting idea that made life a lot simpler for me. I needed to mill some 3/8" stock that was a little over 6" long down to exactly 3/4" wide. Since the piece was longer than the width of my Kurt vise, the challenge was going to be getting the width to as close to exact as possible. I visualized facing one side, flipping it, measuring with calipers, cutting, tweaking, etc. until I got it right. About half-way through the project, it occurred to me the rear jaw on my Kurt vise is machined exactly 1.75" tall. So given that I'm using 1" parallels, I can mill one side, flip it, take an exact measurement 1/4" higher than the rear jaw, mill to that point, and I'm done. I did that and measured the result against a machinist's square that has a 3/4" blade, and it was perfect.  I was a happy camper.

I gloated for a few minutes on what a clever discovery that was for a neophyte, but since there was no one in the shop but me, I got over it pretty quickly.  Then I brought myself down to reality: I bet most of our professionals and more seasoned amateurs already knew about that trick and many more like it. We rank amateurs who have never even stood in a machine shop with a piece of equipment running have no idea of some of these time-saving short cuts that you guys know second nature because of your many hours of hands-on exposure.  Would any you be willing to share tricks like these with the rest of us?  Some of the things you do second nature never even hit the radar screen of us who know nothing about how an efficient machine shop actually operates.  I am aware that these tips are shared all across HM, but I don't think they're ever compiled in a single space.  I suspect it would be of monumental benefit to members in my category.

We have other threads here at Hobby Machinist that have been running and added to for years, and we amateurs benefit greatly from your knowledge and willingness to offer your expertise.  So, if you're so inclined, PLEASE share tips and tricks that you know which might make machining a little more efficient for us rookies.  Don't assume we already know it.  We don't.  And I promise you, we'll appreciate it.

Regards,
Terry


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## DavidR8 (Feb 15, 2021)

I love this idea Terry, I wish I had something to contribute.


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## markba633csi (Feb 15, 2021)

I'm having a bit of trouble following cause I'm an idiot.  You turned 3/8" stock into 3/4"?  That is a trick for sure


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## erikmannie (Feb 15, 2021)

If you need to grind a 90° fillet weld, a flap disk on a 4 1/2” angle grinder will amaze you with what it does. They must have designed the shape of the edge of the flap disk for just this purpose.

Similarly, any SS wire wheel will do the same for a bronze brazed fillet. The bronze smears into a smooth surface.


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## mmcmdl (Feb 15, 2021)

Their are no tricks to the trade . You are in or you are out . Tools are expensive and 99.9% of people don't realize it .


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## erikmannie (Feb 15, 2021)

I imagine that everybody knows about using a magnet to help clean up a machine tool (I use a cheap cow magnet), but have you tried a telescoping magnet to get in there & remove chips while you are boring on a lathe? It works great & it is safe.


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## tjb (Feb 15, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> I love this idea Terry, I wish I had something to contribute.


Thanks, David.

I bet you'll come up with something sooner or later.

Regards


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## tjb (Feb 15, 2021)

markba633csi said:


> I'm having a bit of trouble following cause I'm an idiot.  You turned 3/8" stock into 3/4"?  That is a trick for sure


That's a good one.  You're not an idiot.  I guess I just did a poor job of explaining what I did.  I had a piece of 3/8" x ??? that was a little over six inches long.  I need the ??? to be exactly 3/4" so I'd end up with a 3/8" x 3/4" x a little over 6".  Both sides of the 3/4" were rough cut on a bandsaw - therein lay the challenge.

That better?


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## tjb (Feb 15, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> Their are no tricks to the trade . You are in or you are out . Tools are expensive and 99.9% of people don't realize it .


Okay, let's call them 'short cuts'.  Or 'timesavers'.  No doubt, tools are expensive.  That's why I don't talk about them over breakfast until AFTER I've bought them.


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## tjb (Feb 15, 2021)

erikmannie said:


> I imagine that everybody knows about using a magnet to help clean up a machine tool (I use a cheap cow magnet), but have you tried a telescoping magnet to get in there & remove chips while you are boring on a lathe? It works great & it is safe.
> 
> View attachment 355743


Good one.  I usually wrap a piece of shop paper towel around the end.  Makes cleaning the magnet a little easier.


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## benmychree (Feb 15, 2021)

In the trade, an air hose does the job.


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## Suzuki4evr (Feb 16, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> I love this idea Terry, I wish I had something to contribute.


You do David......hit the like button.


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## erikmannie (Feb 16, 2021)

I have been using the blue nitrile surgical gloves lately. I think that those are safe to use (I won’t get pulled into the machine).


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## bollie7 (Feb 16, 2021)

Some taps have a centre hole in the drive end. So easy to use a centre in the tailstock to locate when hand tapping in the lathe. However some taps have a point on the end instead of the centre. So I use my Jacobs chuck almost closed up and use that to locate the point of the tap.
If using a button die to cut a thread in the lathe (we have all done it). If the back of the die stock is flat, use the end of the tailstock ram (no tool in it) to push against the back of the die stock when first starting to cut the thread. This will hold the die straight.
This should be obvious, but I'll mention it anyway. Both these operations with the machine spindle stopped.
Peter


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## tjb (Feb 16, 2021)

Great responses, guys.  I've already learned a couple of things for future use.

Here's a suggestion: It may help if we put a brief title at the beginning of a post.  For example, on my original post, I could have started with, "How to Indicate the z-axis on the Mill", or some such identifier.  That may expedite searching through some of the tips.

Thanks to all for the responses.  Keep 'em coming.

Regards


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## tjb (Feb 16, 2021)

erikmannie said:


> I imagine that everybody knows about using a magnet to help clean up a machine tool (I use a cheap cow magnet), but have you tried a telescoping magnet to get in there & remove chips while you are boring on a lathe? It works great & it is safe.
> 
> View attachment 355743


I keep one in my tool box for clean-up but never thought about using it while boring.  Great idea.  I also have about a 3" tip section that broke off a very small telescoping magnet (the magnet itself is smaller in diameter than a pencil eraser).  Don't have a clue where I got it, but I've used that more often than I would have ever imagined to clean out chips in tight places.

Air hose works great, too, no doubt.

Regards


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## Braeden P (Feb 16, 2021)

place a rule on a piece of round stock in the mill and get a pointy thing in the spindle like a tap follower and put pressure on the rule  when it is perfectly level you are on center


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## tjb (Feb 16, 2021)

Braeden P said:


> place a rule on a piece of round stock in the mill and get a pointy thing in the spindle like a tap follower and put pressure on the rule  when it is perfectly level you are on center


Oh, very nice!  I'll use that one today!


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## Doug Gray (Feb 16, 2021)

tjb said:


> I keep one in my tool box for clean-up but never thought about using it while boring.  Great idea.  I also have about a 3" tip section that broke off a very small telescoping magnet (the magnet itself is smaller in diameter than a pencil eraser).  Don't have a clue where I got it, but I've used that more often than I would have ever imagined to clean out chips in tight places.
> 
> Air hose works great, too, no doubt.
> 
> Regards


Also great for retrieving parts that have retreated back inside a collet!


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## Braeden P (Feb 16, 2021)

Joe065 said:


> Also great for retrieving parts that have retreated back inside a collet!


for that cup your hands around the hole in the back of the spindle put you mouth up to it and blow very hard and it will fly out the front remember cup your hands around the through hole and put your mouth up to your hands because lathes are dirty and oily this works well for alum


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## Doug Gray (Feb 16, 2021)

My shop is so small.... How small is it.... I'd have to spend 20 minutes moving stuff around to get to the back of the spindle LOL


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## mmcmdl (Feb 16, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> Their are no tricks to the trade . You are in or you are out . Tools are expensive and 99.9% of people don't realize it .



That didn't come out right . As I teach and train future employees at work , I tell them there are no short cuts . They need to learn the proper technique before moving on to tricks of the trade or short cuts , otherwise they could get injured . If they get injured while training under me , who's butt is on the line ?

I take short cuts everyday depending on the job being performed , sometimes it pays off , sometimes it doesn't !


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## erikmannie (Feb 16, 2021)

Save Time Cleaning Up:

I have found that a very organized shop makes for a faster cleanup. A place for everything and everything in its place.

When I clean up (“putting things away”), I start at one end and work around 360°.

I have found the work to be more enjoyable & probably safer if I completely clean up the shop before I start a project.

If, during the course of a project, I use a tool that I’m not going to use again, then I take the time to put it back. You’re going to need to put it back sooner or later, so why allow it to become clutter?


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## Mini Cooper S (Feb 16, 2021)

benmychree said:


> In the trade, an air hose does the job.


I was taught as an apprentice to never use an air hose on a machine, that said, the real world doesn't work that way. An air hose, especially at shop pressure, can propel small chips into ways, gibs, and quills thus paving the way for excessive wear. throttle back the pressure and use some common sense on where you blow the chips. Personally, I prefer a shop vac, it doesn't blow chips all over the shop and then there is less mess on the floor to clean up!

One of my repeat jobs for the company that I retired from involves boring a taper inside of am aluminum pocket and putting a series of V-grooves inside.  I will use an air hose to remove the chips from the bore, but as I said, very carefully.

Sorry to sound preachy, but I just don't want anyone to ruin a good machine.
Richard


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## T Bredehoft (Feb 16, 2021)

I keep a  ceramic (powerful) small magnet in an amber plastic pill bottle, use it to search among chips for dropped parts. Also to  pick up chips when needed. Its easy to  clean them off the bottle with a paper towel.


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## tjb (Feb 16, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> That didn't come out right . As I teach and train future employees at work , I tell them there are no short cuts . They need to learn the proper technique before moving on to tricks of the trade or short cuts , otherwise they cut get injured . If they get injured while training under me , who's butt is on the line ?
> 
> I take short cuts everyday depending on the job being performed , sometimes it pays off , sometimes it doesn't !


That sounds like wise counsel.  I think the intent here is not trying to sneak around doing it the 'right' way, but more along the lines of doing it both correctly and efficiently.  Somewhat like my experience from yesterday:  I had neither the intent nor the desire to do it wrong, but that little tweak in perspective made the job go a little quicker and preserved a little gray matter in the process.

Around here, horror stories abound of people misusing cars, trucks, heavy equipment, chainsaws, tools and whatnot because they failed to use that one other necessary tool at their disposal: common sense.  I think the last six words of folks who tried that originated in my neck of the woods:  "Hold my beer, and watch this!"

Regards


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## mmcmdl (Feb 16, 2021)

tjb said:


> Around here, horror stories abound of people misusing cars, trucks, heavy equipment, chainsaws, tools and whatnot because they failed to use that one other necessary tool at their disposal: common sense. I think the last six words of folks who tried that originated in my neck of the woods: "Hold my beer, and watch this!"


 and a  . Both are well deserved .


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## tjb (Feb 16, 2021)

Mini Cooper S said:


> Sorry to sound preachy, but I just don't want anyone to ruin a good machine.
> Richard


That's not preachy, Richard.  That's the kind of thing amateurs need to hear.  A whole lot better that way than by learning through a bad experience.

Thanks for sharing.


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## Buffalo21 (Feb 16, 2021)

Joe065 said:


> My shop is so small.... How small is it.... I'd have to spend 20 minutes moving stuff around to get to the back of the spindle LOL


Mine is so small, I have to go outside to change my mind.......


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## MrWhoopee (Feb 16, 2021)

When drilling and tapping for a set-screw over a keyway (on a hub, gear or sprocket), slide a piece of keystock through the keyway and place the sprocket in the vise with the keystock resting on the vise jaws (or parallels on vise jaws). Pick up the edge of the keystock and crank over half the width. If doing multiples, put a stop on the vise jaw and slide the keystock against it. Perfectly centered and perpendicular every time.

edit: Remember to remove the keystock once the vise is tightened.


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## MrWhoopee (Feb 16, 2021)

A 6 in. scale makes a good sweat squeegee on a hot day. (Thanks Fred)


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## tjb (Feb 16, 2021)

You guys are doing great!  It seems to me these are the kinds of things it takes hands-on experience to learn.  Exactly the kind of things we neophytes need to hear.

Thanks, and keep 'em coming.

Regards


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## hman (Feb 16, 2021)

Tom Lipton has authored two books of tips & tricks - Metalworking, Sink or Swim (305 pages) and Metalworking, Doing it Better (344 pages).  I have both.  As far as I can tell, Doing it Better seems to include all the content of Sink or Swim, with some new stuff added.  Not to say they aren't both good books.  But if you have neither, I'd suggest just buying Doing it Better.


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## DavidR8 (Feb 16, 2021)

hman said:


> Tom Lipton has authored two books of tips & tricks - Metalworking, Sink or Swim (305 pages) and Metalworking, Doing it Better (344 pages). I have both. As far as I can tell, Doing it Better seems to include all the content of Sink or Swim, with some new stuff added. Not to say they aren't both good books. But if you have neither, I'd suggest just buying Doing it Better.



I have the latter and I agree that it’s excellent content.


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## tjb (Feb 17, 2021)

Just ordered 'Doing It Better'.


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## Mini Cooper S (Feb 19, 2021)

Dealing with backlash when using a manual mill can be problematic for some, especially for beginners. Here is a tip on how to deal with backlash that really isn't very difficult but does require some planning, discipline, and consistency from the machinist.

Let's cover planning first. I almost always set up my drawings and jobs with my datums ( or zero, zero edges ) on the upper edge and the left hand edge of my work piece, as in the drawing below. All of my movements will then be in the X+ and Y- directions.  There are parts that need to be handled differently, a round part with a bolt circle for example, but once you establish your zero point, the technique works the same.

The discipline and consistency comes into play when you pick up your edges or center point and make your moves. Using an edge finder, ( I run mine at about 600 RPM ) pick up the datum edges of your work piece being sure that you move into position by tuning your cranks clockwise. Then carefully zero out your dials. With a round part, use an indicator to find center and again be sure that you move into position by turning your cranks clockwise.  Now the backlash will always be removed when the numbers are climbing, you don't have to worry about remembering which way you set it up.

Always, and this is important,  be sure that when you make your moves, you move into position turning the cranks clockwise so that the numbers on the dial are climbing.  Even if you have to move an axis backwards to get to a position, as you would drilling a bolt circle in a round part, over shoot that position and come back to position turning the crank clockwise. Always move to a position turning your cranks clockwise, Consistency!

Even though I have a readout on my mill, I always set my dials this way and approach positions in this manner. An added benefit is that if your power goes out, you don't have to pick up your edges again. You simply crank back to your zero zero position and reset your readout!

When I started my apprenticeship, everything in the shop was manual, so you learned to be consistent when dealing with backlash. When we got our first readouts, (some of the very first in our area) no one trusted them and always used this technique as a double check of the readout. We were surprised to find that the readouts were showing more movement than the dials did. This was especially prevalent on our older machines.  We determined that this was due to worn lead screws.  When the nut moves from the thin worn thread section of the screw to a less worn area the screw thread, the thread acted like a ramp and pushed the table more than the dial showed!  We started trusting the readouts a little more after that.

I hope that some will find this a useful and not confusing way to handle backlash.

Richard


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## MrWhoopee (Feb 19, 2021)

Mini Cooper S said:


> Let's cover planning first. I almost always set up my drawings and jobs with my datums ( or zero, zero edges ) on the upper edge and the left hand edge of my work piece, as in the drawing below. All of my movements will then be in the X+ and Y- directions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is something I have always done myself and stressed to others. Draw the part so the dimensions run the same way the part will be made. On flat work, that's with 0,0 at the top left corner. Only dimension between features when that dimension is critical. On round parts, draw with the small end (and 0) to the right, just like it will look in the lathe. There will always be exceptions where this can't be done, but it should be done whenever possible. Provide as much necessary info as possible on the drawing. Don't make the machinist reach for a calculator, he'll probably get it wrong 
edit: Richard, your titleblock needs default tolerances.


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## tjb (Feb 19, 2021)

Great advice from Richard and MrWhoopee.  Thank you both.


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## Mini Cooper S (Feb 20, 2021)

MrWhoopee said:


> This is something I have always done myself and stressed to others. Draw the part so the dimensions run the same way the part will be made. On flat work, that's with 0,0 at the top left corner. Only dimension between features when that dimension is critical. On round parts, draw with the small end (and 0) to the right, just like it will look in the lathe. There will always be exceptions where this can't be done, but it should be done whenever possible. Provide as much necessary info as possible on the drawing. Don't make the machinist reach for a calculator, he'll probably get it wrong
> edit: Richard, your titleblock needs default tolerances.


You are absolutely correct about the title block!  The only reason that I don't have one, and not really a good reason, is that at this stage of the game I only make drawings for parts that either my son or I are going to make and we both understand the needs of the part.  Anything that is critical, I will specify a size range.  Back in the days when we had our manufacturing business, our drawings always had default tolerances.

Thanks for the observation,
Richard


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## ahazi (Feb 20, 2021)

hman said:


> Tom Lipton has authored two books of tips & tricks - Metalworking, Sink or Swim (305 pages) and Metalworking, Doing it Better (344 pages).  I have both.  As far as I can tell, Doing it Better seems to include all the content of Sink or Swim, with some new stuff added.  Not to say they aren't both good books.  But if you have neither, I'd suggest just buying Doing it Better.


This was my initial thought when I saw the beginning of this thread. The Metalworking-Doing-Better Book is excellent, full of ideas and techniques.

Ariel


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