# New to the forum, Logan 200 and 1875



## FarWesternGuns (Sep 8, 2013)

Hello everyone.   I purchased a much older 200 , roughly 1946 s/n 36598 last year but it was in rough condition. Needs all new wiring and total going through.  Seems smooth through all the operations though so I had hope. Then I realized what a pain using change gears would be in my shop.  So I've been on the hunt for a similar unit that had a quick change box.  

I saw this one on craigslist. Looked nice. I went down and the guy fired it up and took a few swipes at some steel.  Motor runs really quiet and smooth. Seems to cut straight as an arrow.  Came with one small wrench, a nice three jaw chuck and key, a somewhat rougher four jaw chuck a steady rest that had been repaired, a lever operated crossfeed/compound rest thing for production work, I assume...and some miscellaneous stuff you see in the pictures.  The motor is a newer 1 horse american made unit. Can't remember the make right now. So I just became the owner of a roughly 1961 Logan 1875, s/n 75929.

For now, I'll just post some pics of the 1875.  The plot thickens quite a bit but I do want to ask confirmation on something that I think I'm about to be REALLY disappointed about.  I bought the 1875 just positive that the original lever collet closer system I picked up for my 200 would work just fine with the 1875... It seems I might be sorely mistaken about that.  The spindle bore is the same but the OD of the spindle seems larger on the 1875... I would prefer to find out I'm doing something wrong... However I have a feeling I'm not.

I also want to know if the beds are interchangeable between the 200 and the 1875. The ways on the 200 look better. I know the cast feet bolted to the bed are definitely different.  Anyway... Thanks for any help! I appreciate it and I look forward to learning about my new toys and how to use them.  I'm also going to be waiting on some way oil and spindle oil to show up in the mail before I can really do any work with them.


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## Rennkafer (Sep 9, 2013)

Welcome... that looks to be in beautiful shape!  Wish I could help with your questions but my Logan is a different model.


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## FarWesternGuns (Sep 9, 2013)

Thanks. Yeah the lathe, I think in general, is in nice shape.  I am pretty sure I answered one of my own questions when I had a "Duh" moment at about 4 AM.  Of course the beds would not be directly interchangeable without modification because there's no provision for the QC box on the 200.  So I'll be making due with the 1875 bed for now.  I guess that somewhat saves me from myself. Myself being the type that would tear this thing apart and then not get it back together quickly enough for it to be of any use for a while...


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## FarWesternGuns (Sep 18, 2013)

Hmmm... Looks like someone pruned out about three replies to this thread. Not sure why.  Anyway, I'm going to see if I can find that yahoo Logan group that Chuck K pointed out.  I have been busy with work and didn't get a chance to follow that link.  In response to the man that was giving me a ration for possibly interchanging parts between my lathes... Well, I respect your opinion, and understand where you're coming from. My preference would always be to keep a lathe as it was intended to be used, especially one of these classic units. However... Upon disassembly of the crossfeed and compound I found a crossfeed nut in my 1875 that is so beaten to death that I'm amazed the thing was cutting as straight as it was when demonstrated for me.  IN comparison, the crossfeed nut from my 200 looks extremely nice.  If the two will interchange, it'll be a much cheaper short term fix than buying a new one. I'm more in the position of needing the lathe to work so I can learn to use it.  That said, like I said, I understand the viewpoint of a purist, and appreciate it.


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## astjp2 (Sep 18, 2013)

Invest in a Phase II quick change tool post and some tooling with replaceable inserts, you will enjoy how quick you can adjust the mill to your needs with these features.  Tim


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## Redlineman (Sep 18, 2013)

That was me that was _pruned_;

I guess my posts that day were fodder for the hacker... or something. I was erased elsewhere as well.

That was not a ration. Believe me, I'm not that nice when _rationing_.  I'm not sure I would call it purism either. Never thought of it that way, at least. Maybe it is. There are TON of parts available for these online for very cheap prices. I know because I had to buy a ton of them to rehab my ongoing early 200 project. The early non-QCGB Logans are getting scrapped and parted all over the place due of the notion that change gears are a PITA, and therefore they are of no value. I don't really know, as I've not gotten to use mine yet. However, I think that most people thinking they "need" a QCGB find that they end up not changing speeds very often. How many threads do people cut? It's mostly down to what feed speed gives you the finish you want, and that stays fairly constant for a lot of hobby guys. I'm betting that the QCGB versions get used a lot harder too.

You're free to do as you like, of course. Regarding learning, I can tell you for sure that it is best done by the rudiments, and you certainly have a rudimentary beginning ahead with a change gear 200. That's about as basic as it gets. Perhaps learning that way - in the grand tradition of those before us that had to "work for it" - will also teach you that you kind of like it that way?! Some of us do.

I do have a QCTP on my 100+ y/o Prentice Bros 16" gearhead. I'm not a total purist!


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## Chuck K (Sep 18, 2013)

Unless the bed on your newer machine is worn out, it would seem fairly drastic to make the swap just because the cross feed screw and nut are worn.  The nut from your 200 might fit the 1875...don't know about that for sure.  I am fairly sure the screw wont fit.  In any event those are not major fixes.  The 1875 was probably used in a production scenario.  It certainly looks like a nice machine in the pic, but looks don't always tell the story.  I have had both the underdrive unit like your 1875 and the older rear drive units like your 200.  I personally prefer the rear drive models.  No bending over to change belts.  Easier to maintain.  They really don't take a whole lot more room.  As far as the qc box.  It's easy to say they are unnecessary if you're not used to having one.  And yes you can use the same feed rate a lot of the time.  But if you have the qc box it's easy to tweak your feed just a little to make the chips come off better.  Threading is much easier too.  Given the choice I'd go with the qc every time.

Chuck

Here's the link the hacker took away:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lathe-list/info

You'll probably have to join to read or post anything there.  All of the yahoo groups seem to have gone through a format change. I have a problem with people that buy machines to part them out too.....but having said that, I have found a lot of parts I needed from those same people.  They do serve a purpose.  Also they're making a lot more profit on the machines than I do by fixing them and selling them as working units.


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## FarWesternGuns (Sep 18, 2013)

I'm sorry, that last post by me was misleading... In my previous post I wrote about changing the bed because the ways on the 200 are in much nicer shape than the 1875.  There are lots of dings under the spindle on the 1875 and not so many on the 200.  I have a chance at a rebuilt QC box, including lead screw and brackets from an 820, which I believe is the same as an 1875.  It's actually owned by the same man I bought the 1875 from. He wants $300 for all of it.  Seems like a fair price.  He was working on it when I went to get the 1875.  He had three gear boxes he was making one good one from.  He called me today to let me know it was good. I'm tempted to get this one in case I have the desire to convert the 200 over to a QC unit.  Any thoughts on that price?  Also, I told him about the messed up crossfeed nut and he immediately paypal transferred enough money to me to buy a new one which I thought was pretty good of him.


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## Chuck K (Sep 18, 2013)

The fact that he made good on the crossfeed nut says a lot for the seller.  I guess I just have a problem with the fact that your talking about a gearbox that was put together with the best parts from three not so good gearboxes.  How good are the best parts? 300.00 probably isn't way out of line, but if you don't need it right now you might find the parts cheaper.  Dings in the ways near the head stock are pretty common.  I would still reserve judgement until you have had the chance to turn some long pieces on it and see what it does.

Chuck


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## FarWesternGuns (Sep 18, 2013)

Chuck, I see where you're coming from.  From what I recall, he had at least three boxes there, but I am not sure if he was using parts from all three. He did show me that one box had some bad gears in it, and the other one had the gears he needed in good shape to complete the box.  He mentioned at that time that he would probably ask three hundred for the gear box with the lead screw, banjo bracket, and the tail end bracket once it was all put back together.  I just called him and asked for as many high res pictures as he could send me and he said he'd take them tomorrow and send them over.  As far as the crossfeed nut goes, well, he admitted he had not taken the machine apart to see the crossfeed nut and did not realize there was a problem.  I didn't even ask for a replacement or anything at that point... He just volunteered to give me back enough money to buy a new one. He said "I sold it as a good working machine so I want to make sure that's what you got."  As far as that goes I'm real happy.  He seems to be an old-iron junky. He has a really nice SB Heavy 10 he's restoring to sell as well.  Anyway, once I get pictures of the gear box and parts, I'll post them up and see what you guys think.  I had been watching for gear boxes for quite some time thinking I'd convert my 200 over, prior to finding the 1875.  Seems like the very very few of them I happened to catch on ebay went for tall dollars and never included a lead screw or brackets.  I'm not sure the brackets would be needed but I won't question the inclusion of the parts...


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## FarWesternGuns (Sep 19, 2013)

Here are the pictures he sent me of the gear box.  He said that everything was smooth until he put the lead screw in and now it's running a little stiffer than he'd like so he said he wants to get that figured out before I buy it, if I buy it... What do you guys think?


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## Kevinb71 (Sep 19, 2013)

I have an 1875. To me from the looks of the QC gears there are only 1 or 2 that look even questionable. These gears "look" like they would do a good job for a long time. Of course there is also the question of the bushings, but if your guy spent the time and effort to put this back together he probably checked those. Mine I put several new gears in it and it does still make a bit more noise than another Logan that i have seen/heard run. But mine still works and i just make sure that i lube the gears occasionally. There may be some who say not to actually lube the gears for swarf and dirt, but when I relube them i also clean off the junk. It is getting quieter over time with use. For me i would not want to go to a change gear machine. I change feed speeds quite often between rough cut and finish cut. 

As far as the leadscrew being tight it may need the bushing reamed or possibly it's just to tight with the collar on the outside of the gearbox on the leadscrew. Just my thoughts and I am NOT an experienced machinist, though I did play one in my garage last night!


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## stevecmo (Sep 19, 2013)

Just to clarify, you have a 200 change gear and a 1875 with a QCGB?  Are you going to keep both lathes?  Not sure why you would want both of them as they are the same size.  Some parts are interchangeable, some are not.  There were many changes made by Logan throughout the years.  Personally I would not spend any money on "upgrading" the 200.  You didn't post any pictures of the 200 so we don't really know what kind of shape it is in.  My advise would be to clean it up, make it usable, and sell it.

The 1875 looks to be in pretty good shape from the limited pictures you posted.  However, it could just be a cosmetic job - as you've already discovered a problem with the cross slide.  It does have the larger dials which are very desirable.  It is a much better lathe than the 200 assuming all the condition is equal.

The QCGB picture that you posted looks to be an older version based on the castings.  Also the gears show some definite wear.  IMHO that gear box is not worth $300.  Again, I wouldn't spend any money to upgrade the 200.

Here's a pic of my 1946 QCGB to compare the castings and gears.

View attachment 60774


Hope that helps.

Steve


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## FarWesternGuns (Sep 20, 2013)

You got it right... Here's the problem. Like all inexperienced newbs that don't do enough research I bought the 200 not knowing fully what I was getting into.  It is nowhere near as nice as the 1875, at least cosmetically.  It needs completely rewired and definitely gone through and inspected.  I bought it not really realizing the difference between a change gear machine and a QCGB machine.  I paid $500 for the 200.  It came with a proper logan steady rest a few chucks, live centers dead centers and a ton of miscellaneous items the guy threw in to make me part with five bills.  I probably still got taken.  Having committed to that machine ( I thought ) I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a complete original lever collet closer system, with a pretty much complete set of 3AT collets. That set me back $350.  Now I'm in that lathe $850 deep and it's not a runner.  I was hoping the collet closer would work with the 1875.  I now don't believe it will.  My problem is that if I put the lathe back together again, and I get it all spiffed up and running, including the collet closer I'm not sure I'll get my money back. My thought process on the QC box was that if I either include that in the sale, or actually do the conversion, that it might be a desirable enough machine to break even or maybe make a hundred bucks.  At the end of the day I may just have to chalk up a loss to the price of experience.  

Now, when you say it looks like an older unit, are you saying it looks like around the same vintage as your 1946 model, or older than that, or just an early vs. late... I'm still so green it hurts when it comes to these machines but I'm eager to learn.

Thanks for your time.  I'll try to get some pictures of the 200.  I had it stored in my grandfather's garage until last week. I had to go up there and tear it down in order to transport it alone. So now it's in pieces in my garage. I'm not sure when I'll get to put it back together again.  Life has become a goat rodeo in the last month!


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## Redlineman (Sep 20, 2013)

You are learning faster than you know;

You can spend all kinds of dough on all kinds of neat stuff in this racket, for sure. However, if you start at the beginning and build the tool box between your ears first, you'll eventually find that a lot of that neat stuff was superfluous. Learn to do the basic jobs with basic tools and you will be able to handle anything. You are finding out that you have been very busy about getting going, without knowing where. But... that's water passed by. Let's deal with what is.

I think there is a thing called Machine Karma. Doing right by each component pays dividends in the end. Working to make each part function better pays off in many future ways. What you are learning in working with that old 200 is invaluable. It doesn't work right now, and it is already better than you are. It has more potential than you can even fathom, and it will take you YEARS to pass it by. Getting good at doing this stuff means learning how it all works. Making an old machine work is the best way to get all of that knowledge. The old timer hands the apprentice mechanic a pile of parts and says, "Here... make this work. Come get me when it does"

It should be about enjoying the journey. Don't miss out on that.
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Taken last night.....


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## Chuck K (Sep 20, 2013)

Breaking a 200 down into smaller pieces and loading it into a truck can be done in about 30 min.  Putting it back together will take a little longer assuming your cleaning and lubricating things along the way.  The wiring on it is minimal. The collet closer makes it worth a little more.  If you have the change gears and the machine is not completely worn out you can probably get your money back out of it.  I don't see you getting an extra 350 for the qc box....but I don't know what the market is like in your area. I had a really nice 200 that I sold for 750 last year. I thought that was about right considering the condition of the machine.

Chuck


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## FarWesternGuns (Sep 20, 2013)

Redlineman said:


> You are learning faster than you know;
> 
> You can spend all kinds of dough on all kinds of neat stuff in this racket, for sure. However, if you start at the beginning and build the tool box between your ears first, you'll eventually find that a lot of that neat stuff was superfluous. Learn to do the basic jobs with basic tools and you will be able to handle anything. You are finding out that you have been very busy about getting going, without knowing where. But... that's water passed by. Let's deal with what is.
> 
> ...




Thanks for that... I see where you're coming from and I appreciate the thought behind it. 

Chuck K... 

Unfortunately I live in the crazy world of Los Angeles County, California.  Prices on these machines seem to be inflated significantly over what I see in other parts of the country.  The 1875 I posted cost me $1200, and that was a REALLY good buy compared to most machines I see advertised around here.  I see them for well north of 2K regularly that are not nearly as nice, and that same ballpark for 200's with little or no tooling. Maybe running but clearly needing to be gone through.  Anyway, If at the end of the process I end up learning something I'll call it a win. I'll let this guy know I'm not going to be able to get the gear box from him. If anyone here is interested in it I'll pass along his information. He seems like a real nice guy.

Thanks for all the help.  Gonna have to get the paint code for that early dark blue grey for the 200!


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## stevecmo (Sep 20, 2013)

Well, you're kind of in a pickle.  If the 200 is in decent shape, $500 was a pretty good buy since it included the change gears and a steady rest.  I'm assuming that it has the cast iron legs and drip pan as well.  As said, the wiring shouldn't be a big deal.  I would think that if you clean it up, fix the small things you'll no doubt find (worn bushings, etc., which your other lathe should handle), you should be able to make a couple hundred on just the lathe.  A paint job will pay benefits on the resale (some will argue that) and is relatively easy to do since you have it torn down.

Unfortunately I don't think the collet closer will work in your favor here.  Since the 200 is a change gear lathe, kind of a starter lathe, most buyers aren't going to want to pop another $350 for something that they probably don't really need.  Your best bet is to sell it separate.  The problem will be you really don't know what it will fit.  That may take a little investigation.  You can join the Logan Yahoo group and maybe someone can help.

From the pic's of the gearbox, the casting shapes just appear to be older versions based on ones that I've seen.  Many folks have added QCGB to their change gear lathes, but it is usually when it is their only lathe and they intend to keep and use it.  I wouldn't put that much money into it if you intend to sell it.  It'll kind of be a Frankenlathe which may scare some buyers off.

Just my two cents.  Hope it helps.

Steve


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## FarWesternGuns (Sep 20, 2013)

The 200 is complete as far as I can tell. It does have the cast iron legs, and it has the cast iron leg and rubber isolator for the motor mount... Before I bought the collet closer, I emailed pictures of it to Scott Logan, and he confirmed that it was the correct on for the 200, and the exploded view he sent me confirms that it's the same unit.  I wanted it for being able to work on real small stuff (firing pins) as my instructor said that a collet closer was invaluable for the type of work I intend to do.  So, I guess they don't have "hot rod" lathes? Only "franken lathes?"  I was hoping putting the QCGB would be like dropping a close ratio trans, a tall geared rear end, and a 324 Olds in your Model A pickup... )


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## stevecmo (Sep 20, 2013)

OK, it's good to know you've been in touch with Scott and know what the closer will fit.  You might shoot him an email and ask what other models it will fit.  That will make it easier to sell.

I'm sure you've seen the legs and pans on ebay.  I don't know if they ever sell, but the prices are staggering.  And the steady rests usually bring $100-150.  I think you should be able to get around $750 for it if you get it running and make it look "purty".  

Hmmm, a hot rod lathe?  Maybe.  

Steve


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## FarWesternGuns (Sep 20, 2013)

stevecmo said:


> OK, it's good to know you've been in touch with Scott and know what the closer will fit.  You might shoot him an email and ask what other models it will fit.  That will make it easier to sell.
> 
> I'm sure you've seen the legs and pans on ebay.  I don't know if they ever sell, but the prices are staggering.  And the steady rests usually bring $100-150.  I think you should be able to get around $750 for it if you get it running and make it look "purty".
> 
> ...




Well, one way or another.. It'll be an interesting and educational journey! Thanks again for the help.  I'm sure I'll be asking for quite a bit more.  Eventually I might be able to even give some to some other future greenhorn... That's how its' supposed to work, right?


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## Redlineman (Sep 20, 2013)

Hey;

If I thought that new fangled lathe of yours would net ME $800 profit right off the cuff, and it was the more worn of the two.... I'm NO GOOD at math at all, and even I can do those numbers. You've got a collet closer for doing the work you want to do (makes perfect sense for that work) on the better machine that you already own, and that machine will do every iota of the work that the newer one would if it were in good shape, if with slightly more experience-earning effort on your part. I'm looking for a downside here.......

Please don't think I am a curmudgeon, just out shirting on your parade. I'm in the same boat. I'm kind of a farmer type, though. I will make due with what I have. It's not a question of money. No, I don't have that either, but I know what I lack more than that is skills. My machine mentor told me a long time ago to resist the temptation to buy all kinds of gee whiz stuff, and concentrate on the basics. He was very right, and I have some super cool stuff that I've never touched to prove it. I still have not learned how to use the most basic stuff to it's full potential.

I've learned a ton in the past couple of years, and not even scratched the surface. I'm using a lathe that is TWICE as old as the Logans we have. It is loose and worn and cranky, and I'm learning EXACTLY what I need to know by it. I'm learning how to MAKE IT WORK. You can't buy that. Not any other way.

Ya wanna talk challenges? Let me know how your bull gear looks compared to mine.


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## Chuck K (Sep 20, 2013)

That is one knarly bullgear!  You can do interrupted cuts on a continuous piece of material with that. LOL.  I'm hoping that's the before pic and you have since added a few teeth to it.

Chuck


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## Redlineman (Sep 21, 2013)

Not to hijack the thread...

But to point out to FWG that we are all in the same boat out here, doing the same things, thinking the same thoughts with the same impulses. The difference between us is experience. Mine comes from elsewhere. Certainly not from machining. I don't know squat, but I'm having a lot of fun learning. Quite irregardless of the potential of the machine in question, the basic principles always apply, and arguably can best be learned on the simplest machine. I'm not even sure what all the controls do on my Prentice Gearhead yet, not that it is that complex... That century old beast is a rattlin, bangin, slip slidin SOB, but it is teaching me A LOT. The Logan is beautiful in its simplicity, and will hopefully become a much more civilized piece. At least I can get parts for it!

Yes, that is a many times hammered gear, for sure, shown here to illustrate what others are up against, and what can be overcome. It is the worst of four that had missing teeth on my poor old beast, all now replaced with used ones sourced from ebay. It seems that it might have lived at an armory or military training center, obviously being run by people that didn't necessarily know what they were doing. Yet, despite that severe usage - or perhaps BECAUSE of it - it has very little if any bed wear, and the parts that were not trashed are pretty decent.

So Guns, we all look forward to seeing what you find in your evaluation of what you've got there, and I think that's what you need to do. Step back and check it all out. Power them up an see how they work. You may have been a bit quick on the draw in buying what you did. First time that's ever happened in recorded history....   However, aside from money you may not have to toss around, the experience - the journey - is priceless!!

- - - Updated - - -

By the way...

Most of these old birds have been slathered with many layers of variously bilious or boring industrial colors over the years. Mine had 3! Like they say on ships, if it don't move PAINT IT, and they DID! If you study you will find that the hue of many original color lathes (which are fairly rare) varies widely. It seems to depend on usage and environment as to what shade they have become over the years. A very good approximation of the handsome original color (early lathes only) is *Benjamin Moore Baby Seal Grey 2119-30*. That is what I am using, based on tips from restorers on other forums. It is not as blue as it appears in that previous photo. Good old alkyd enamel, probably like they had originally. Brush it on and then either stipple it with the brush or hit it with a roller lightly to get rid of the brush marks. Looks great!


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## FarWesternGuns (Sep 21, 2013)

I see where you're coming from.  While I like the idea of using the 200, I don't know if the change gear setup is practical for me. We'll see. Luckily the 200 has a great deal of the original pain on it and has no signs of ever being repainted. I might be able to take the flywheel housing door to a local place and have it color matched with a spectrometer. Would be interesting to see how that compares to the baby seal grey.


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