# PM 935TS ordered. Need guidance on VFD components and installation.



## litewings (Dec 15, 2021)

Ordered the 935TS with a 3 phase motor and need to get things ordered for the VFD installation. AC electrical is a definite weak point of mine so help is needed. I did the VFD install on my PM-1340GT a couple years ago with help from this forum and especially Mark Jacobs. That project went well and has been working with no problems. For the mill, Mark has already suggested in another thread the Teco L510 or E510 or Automation Direct GS20/21 series. I don't know differences between these. I'm guessing at this point I need to decide what controls I want/need. I have decided to go with braking and will need the external resistor for this. Is it two stage braking as it is on the lathe or just a single stage? Speed control on my lathe is a 270 degree input and I use about a third of its travel. Have read it other threads a three turn control on mills? Seems excessive. Am I missing something? Jog function needed? I do use it frequently on the lathe. A spindle tach would be great also but would probably add it later so what needs to be considered now for that? I will be installing two power feeds and three axis DRO now and possibly the third power feed later . Really like how Cletus built VFD and AC outlets into the base of the machine. Lots of questions. First mill and second VFD installation. Suggestions and guidance appreciated.


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## davidpbest (Dec 15, 2021)

A 3-turn pot would drive me crazy.  On my 935, the pot for speed control is one-turn and that's plenty of control IMO.  "Jog" is not precisely what you want on a mill - at least if you're using the lathe Jog as a reference.  I have a Joystick jog function on my PM-1340 that outputs a fixed frequency, but on the mill, I wanted momentary push buttons specifically for tapping.  

The photo below is the control box attached to the side of the J-head on my 935 - note the momentary tapping buttons in the lower right (green is forward, red is reverse).  This way I have the full range of speeds available for tapping which is helpful with varying materials, tap styles and diameters.  In back gear at 55 RPM this mill will easily drive a 1" tapered (ever enlarging) NPT tap into 3/8" 1018.  These tapping switches are part of the VFD control system that Mark designed and built for my mill.  

The system also includes a sensor that knows when the back gear is engaged and reverses direction automatically for the spindle motor, and a proximity stop sensor on the quill that will auto reverse when the depth stop is triggered (helpful for production tapping).   

I wouldn't be without a tach on a mill - dialing in feeds and speeds is impossible without one. I look at my tach all the time to set the proper speed for a given cutter based on my feed/speed calcs.  The tach on my system is one I built from a kit and integrated into the control box you see below.  The sensor for the tach is part of the quill ring light system which is fully _*documented here*_. If you wanted just a quill ring light without the tach sensor integrated, attached are drawings for that that fit the 935 quill - this is the same design, just with the tach sensor elements (and height for it) removed.


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## Cletus (Dec 15, 2021)

Got a 10-turn on mine with a crank-knob and pretty much like it


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## litewings (Dec 16, 2021)

What voltage/power is needed for the tach system? Haven't started looking at those yet. VFD braking needed or just use the standard mill brake? I see that the momentary switches would be better for tapping than the jog function speed wise. I won't need auto-reversing. Can always add that later if needed. I have done more researching on VFD's and getting some of that sorted out. I'm not in a huge rush yet I don't expect to see the machine until February.


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## Cletus (Dec 16, 2021)

My Tach as well as my relay control system and spindle halo-light all use 12vdc.  I am using the Hitachi WJ200-022SF VFD and I bought this braking resistor and stuff for it. The system works well for me





						uxcell a14110700ux0603 Aluminum Shell Braking Resistor Dummy Load for Audio, 60 Ohm, 5%, 500W: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
					

uxcell a14110700ux0603 Aluminum Shell Braking Resistor Dummy Load for Audio, 60 Ohm, 5%, 500W: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



					www.amazon.com
				






			Amazon.com
		







						DIN Rail Power Supplies 20W 12V 1.67A: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
					

DIN Rail Power Supplies 20W 12V 1.67A: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



					www.amazon.com


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## mksj (Dec 16, 2021)

There are a number of very good VFD's, the lower priced ones (under $200) tend to lack features and also some (like the L510) do not support an external braking resistor. Recommended would be the 3 HP single phase input Teco E510, Hitachi WJ200, Automation Direct GS21 and Yaskawa GA500 series, I have done installs with all these models and they have all performed well. Availability has been an issue, the Hitachi WJ200-022SF has been out of stock with most vendors, although it is probably the most commonly used VFD in the 935 mills. Price wise they are all within $100 range of each other. How they operate and the program parameters are quite different, this also comes into play if you want to use the JOG function with what is called 3 wire control. I am working with another forum member who is setting up a WJ200 for his 935 with both 3 wire and JOG as well as a back gear sensor, need to see if it actually works when he gets his VFD. Tech. support is not very helpful when I asked if the JOG inputs work with 3 wire control. There are ways to do it, just depends on the VFD model and the circuit design/programming.

On the mill I typically use 3 wire control which is a momentary switch for START, STOP and a sustained switch for REVERSE. Also mills with back gear forward is switched to reverse in back gear, I add a small switch activated in back gear that reverse the the VFD directions in back gear. I have a number of different designs but they vary by VFD manufacturer. David's system (as well as my mill) use 2 wire control with momentary buttons that latch relays, it is a more complicated design. The run buttons are in a pod attached to the knee.  I do not use a JOG function on my mill because I use spiral taps and thread in one pass, otherwise I just hand tap (it fits into the chuck). You also can just turn down the speed pot, power tap through and then just flip the FOR/REV switch and back out the tap. I have setup mine to auto reverse, ideally you want to use a shorter braking time when tapping, otherwise it is 3 seconds unless the E-Stop is pressed.

I can provide you with suggestions on a parts list. On most modern era 4P mill motors, I run them from 20-120Hz  and vector motors to 200Hz, so I usually like the 3 turn mil-spec pots over the wider range. I also find that a lot of the cheaper single speed pots to either fail, or not hold speed stability as the vibration from the machine can bounce the wiper. I usually use mil-spec. speed pots made by ETI, Spectral, etc. that are wire wound/composite film and rated for millions of cycles. I have a 10 turn on my mill, it came that way from the factory. Also problem with a single turn (in some cases) if you change the speed too quickly you can get a VFD fault from an over voltage spike trying to change the speed too quickly. There are some program parameter changes which can minimize these issues.
ETI MW22B-3-5K 1W 3 5Kohms Turn Wire wound Potentiometer https://www.ebay.com/itm/201057249723
ETI SP22E-2K 1W 2Kohms 1 turn conductive plastic https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ETI-Systems/SP22E-2K?qs=wuXwK9wHm9tJD5TtBzWetA==

You can read up on the VFD's, when you get closer to ordering/building, I can provide some designs and parameters. There are lots of posts on the 935 and VFD installs, I would review what others have done and then go from there.


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## litewings (Dec 17, 2021)

mksj said:


> There are a number of very good VFD's, the lower priced ones (under $200) tend to lack features and also some (like the L510) do not support an external braking resistor. Recommended would be the 3 HP single phase input Teco E510, Hitachi WJ200, Automation Direct GS21 and Yaskawa GA500 series, I have done installs with all these models and they have all performed well. Availability has been an issue, the Hitachi WJ200-022SF has been out of stock with most vendors, although it is probably the most commonly used VFD in the 935 mills. Price wise they are all within $100 range of each other. How they operate and the program parameters are quite different, this also comes into play if you want to use the JOG function with what is called 3 wire control. I am working with another forum member who is setting up a WJ200 for his 935 with both 3 wire and JOG as well as a back gear sensor, need to see if it actually works when he gets his VFD. Tech. support is not very helpful when I asked if the JOG inputs work with 3 wire control. There are ways to do it, just depends on the VFD model and the circuit design/programming.
> 
> On the mill I typically use 3 wire control which is a momentary switch for START, STOP and a sustained switch for REVERSE. Also mills with back gear forward is switched to reverse in back gear, I add a small switch activated in back gear that reverse the the VFD directions in back gear. I have a number of different designs but they vary by VFD manufacturer. David's system (as well as my mill) use 2 wire control with momentary buttons that latch relays, it is a more complicated design. The run buttons are in a pod attached to the knee.  I do not use a JOG function on my mill because I use spiral taps and thread in one pass, otherwise I just hand tap (it fits into the chuck). You also can just turn down the speed pot, power tap through and then just flip the FOR/REV switch and back out the tap. I have setup mine to auto reverse, ideally you want to use a shorter braking time when tapping, otherwise it is 3 seconds unless the E-Stop is pressed.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. Will continue studying setups. At this moment, I would like all my controls and tach in as small of a box possible on the Left side of the head (as viewed as operator). I did find the Hitachi WJ200 in stock at a supplier yesterday. Didn't order it yet. Will narrow down what I want for controls first. At this time I'm thinking standard forward/reverse,  momentary switch joystick for forward and reverse for tapping and a 1 turn speed control. Joystick seems to make sense to me for least amount of panel area used and direction of movement like the tapping operation. Auto reverse not needed for me. I do like the idea of reversing switch on back-gear. Back to researching for now.


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## litewings (Dec 20, 2021)

Well I'm impressed with the Machine-DRO company from the UK. Ordered the Easson 12C DRO package 5 days ago and its here today. Box was a little tough looking from the ride but all contents undamaged as far as I can tell.


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## Winegrower (Dec 20, 2021)

The control concepts and implementations discussed here are impressive, but for some new folks might seem intimidating in the extreme.   I want to remind everyone that our mills and lathes were designed without these system and worked very successfully for many years in their absence.    The most straightforward path is get a simple and inexpensive static phase converter, which anybody reading this here can wire up, and get to making things.


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## Cletus (Dec 20, 2021)

Very true, but IMHO, Cheapest 3hp static phase converter I found on-line is $283.   Cheapest 3hp VFD I found is $83 and by adding 6 more little low-voltage wires, a pot and a switch, the VFD can add so much more convenience. Plus, you probably get to learn some new stuff as well.


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## mksj (Dec 20, 2021)

You can wire up a VFD in a very simple fashion, power in, power out to the motor, and a 3 way switch FOR STOP REV with 2 wire input control and be off an running. Add a speed pot if you want, or one can just add the VFD panel to the front with a remote cable as many of these have a removable control panel. Doesn't get much simpler than that. The wiring for the other features is just as easy, the exception is the JOG function ONLY if using 3 wire control. Many people get hung up on the programming if needed, and there has been quite a bit posted/provided to those that ask. In addition, the simpler VFD's like the Teco L510/ Automation Direct GS21 will run out of the box, and may require some some minimal programming. They also have very good technical support.

We share our knowledge with others so they can enjoy their machines and have a better experience with them, I have yet to have worked with anybody wanting to install a VFD that couldn't wire it up and get their machine running to their satisfaction. People can make it as simple or complex as they want. So this is just to give people options whether it is a static converter, RPC , VFD, etc.


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## Cletus (Dec 20, 2021)

Yup, one of the best ways is to start it off real simple and build on it once you get it running. If you screw-up and get lost (and the best of us will), do a factory reset and start again.
I've used a lot of Automation Direct VFDs and that's my go to VFD.
I built a plastics extrusion and household chemical factory across the street from me with about 55 Automation Direct VFDs controlling stuff from 1.5HP 230V mixers, fillers and pumps all the way up to 100HP 440V extruders, PLC controlled and everything is on a Modbus SCADA network that can be monitored from the QA lab.  In almost every case I start at the base level, get the thing going and build from there up to some really complex stuff.
Glad I tried the Hitachi VFD for my mill though, not the most intuitive user interface, but some really nice features when one digs into it.
Here's a couple of my mixing tank SCADA touch screens, all of that info is continuously gathered / derived from the Automation Direct VFDs in the plant:


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## litewings (Dec 21, 2021)

Narrowed down my function wants and I’m trying to keep it simple. Maybe its not as easy to wire in these controls as I think. Want to keep the controls in a single box on the head. Thoughts on this list? Is this doable?

Main power switch
Rev Stop Fwd switch
1 turn speed control
Momentary toggle, on-off-on for forward-reverse (mostly for tapping)
Two stage braking switch (faster braking for use with the momentary forward-reverse)
Reversing switch on back gear selector
Emergency stop (lighted when power on)

As far as VFD’s it looks like one of these three.
Hitachi WJ200-022SF currently in stock
Teco E510-203-H-U currently in stock
Automation Direct GS21-23PO. Backordered
Price point alone has me wanting to wait on the GS21-23PO.

I will also install a tach so will get a power supply as needed. I’m planning on using the machine base access door openings as mounting locations for the VFD and other parts as well as 120v outlets. (not using flood coolant). An electrical enclosure box is not out of the question yet. Is there adequate volume in the base for cooling or will it need a fan? For the controls I want, is one of these VFD’s a better option?


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## Cletus (Dec 21, 2021)

Pretty much what I did. I did not do the 2-stage braking however.   _"Momentary toggle, on-off-on for forward-reverse (mostly for tapping)"_ easily added, but decided I did not need it. Adequate space in the column and no need for an additional fan. I used a 10-turn, but a single turn can be substituted no problem. I am using a mist coolant system as well. _"Want to keep the controls in box on the head"_ if you mean the original little box, you'll need some more room up there.
VFD is installed in the side opening (drill, jigsaw and file did the panel cutout)  and the power input/output panel is at the rear panel (I CNC plasma cut an entirely new panel from 16g steel sheet with all the cutouts).
Acceleration to full speed is 3-seconds. Deceleration to full stop (braking) 1-second.  Programming as it stands today is:

*HITACHI VFD WJ200-022SF*

*Cletus’ Revised On-Machine Setup 2021/09/10*​

*B037 = 01Show All parameters

A082 = 230Motor Nameplate Voltage

B012 = 11Motor Nameplate Amperes

F001 = 60.00 Output Frequency Setting

A003 = 60Base Frequency

A004 = 120Maximum Frequency

A061= 120Frequency Upper Limit

A062= 0.00Frequency Lower Limit

H004 = 4Motor Poles
F002 = 3.00Acceleration Time

F003 = 1.00 Deceleration Time
A001 = 01Frequency Source (ext Pot) Pot on terminals “H”, “O”, and “L”

A002 = 01Run External 
C001 = 00Set Fwd to terminal “1”

C002 = 01Set Rev to terminal “2”

C003 = 06Set JOG to terminal “3”

A038 = 4Jog Frequency, 4.0 Hz

B031 = 10High Level Access
B091 = 00* *Stop Mode Selection



For braking resistor implementation add the following:*

A042 = 5Manual torque boost value (0-20%)
A054 = 60%DC braking force for deceleration (0-100%)
A083 = 1AVR filter time constant (0-10%)
B029 = .5Deceleration rate of active freq. Matching (.1 to 3000.0)
B090 = 10%Dynamic braking usage ratio (0-100%)
B092 = 01Fan control

B095 = 02Dynamic braking control (BRD) selection

B097 = 60Should set automatically to resistor value
B131 = 390Decel. overvolt. Suppress level
B133 = 1 Decel. overvolt. Suppress proportional gain


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## davidpbest (Dec 21, 2021)

litewings said:


> Narrowed down my function wants and I’m trying to keep it simple. Maybe its not as easy to wire in these controls as I think. Want to keep the controls in box on the head. Thoughts on this list? Is this doable?
> 
> Main power switch
> Rev Stop Fwd switch
> ...


Mark should definitely chime in here.  He da master on all this IMO.   

You can certainly get some of the control switches etc. into a box on the side of the head.  But the relays that support the the control functions have to go somewhere, and personally, I would want those in some type of electronics enclosure.   You can certainly fit the Hitachi VFD into the column, but the support electronics are another matter.  Shown below is the inside of my electronics enclosure for the system Mark built that supports the functions you call out.   That VFD is the Hitachi.  You can see the power resister, power supplies, etc.  Also, keep in mind there is cabling involved from the controls to the switch box(es) and you need some way to glad those at this end of things.  This all takes real estate.






You can see what I crammed into the switch box on the side of my J-head - this is a Hoffman 150x150x120mm Stainless Steel Screw Cover Enclosure I found on eBay for $150.  The inside of the box if full.  This has E-stop, tach display, speed control pot, tapping switches, braking selector switch, and a switch for the spindle light.






But notice, the main on, off, forward/reverse, auto-reverse enable are in a pod mounted to the side of the knee.  I would not want those controls on the side of the J-head for convenience sake, nor the would I want to up-size the box on the head any further to accommodate those switches.  Although you don't plan to use flood coolant, you may discover you want some type of MQL system like a Fogbuster and controls for that as well.






As far as the cabling goes, I recommend you put the cable plugs on the back of the boxes with the switches, not on the main enclosure box.   This makes routing, tidying up the wiring, and installation a lot easier than laying on your back looking up at the bottom of the main electronics enclosure.  And since there are multiple cables involved (tach sensor, back gear sensor, power, control lines, etc.) I also recommend that each cable have a different connector type so they don't accidentally get swapped.  For example, here is the back of the box on my J-head (
Left to right:  3-pin connector for the tach sensor cable, 4-pin for the output to the LED light, 2-pin for the 12VDC coming into the control box):






David


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## litewings (Dec 21, 2021)

Cletus said:


> Pretty much what I did. I did not do the 2-stage braking however. _"Momentary toggle, on-off-on for forward-reverse (mostly for tapping)"_ easily added, but decided I did not need it. Adequate space in the column and no need for an additional fan. I used a 10-turn, but a single turn can be substituted no problem. I am using a mist coolant system as well. _"Want to keep the controls in box on the head"_ if you mean the original little box, you'll need some more room up there.
> VFD is installed in the side opening (drill, jigsaw and file did the panel cutout) and the power input/output panel is at the rear panel (I CNC plasma cut an entirely new panel from 16g steel sheet with all the cutouts).
> Acceleration to full speed is 3-seconds. Deceleration to full stop (braking) 1-second. Programming as it stands today is:


I'll be installing a larger box for controls but trying to keep it as small as possible. I set up my lathe with two stage braking. If I remember correctly, for less stress on the system and possible VFD faults at higher speeds with fast braking. Maybe not as big a concern on the mill will less spinning weight to slow down vs a lathe with a 40lb chuck to stop. That said, its a small toggle switch that wont take much space. Is that a 1 second stop at any speed?


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## Cletus (Dec 22, 2021)

Yes, I'm getting a reliable stop in 1sec from any speed, without throwing an error on the VFD, using a 60 ohm braking resistor.  I can go from fwd directly to rev at any speed also. She will just ramp down in 1sec and ramp up in 3sec.
Heres the braking resistor I opted to use. 
uxcell a14110700ux0603 Aluminum Shell Braking Resistor Dummy Load for Audio, 60 Ohm, 5%, 500W https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WW7DA4...abc_37RJ2VB07K3MQR6JNXMA?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


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## mksj (Dec 22, 2021)

The control system design/wiring depends on the VFD used, most of my mill designs are simple and do not use relays. If you want to go with the GS21 they can be ordered, and you can get in the line for the next shipment. The program parameters are schematic specific to the VFD that you use. How the jog will work needs to be checked out with the VFD you choose, but it can be done a number of different ways. I do not recommend a jog joystick on the mill as they are too large and interfere with the other controls. Either use two small buttons on the left side of the front panel or a smaller centering toggle switch.  The GS21, WJ200 and E510 have small 24VDC power supplied that can be used for LED indicator lights. Suggested enclosure components list is attached.

Mills in back gear have very high momentum, so 1 second braking w/o and external braking resistor may trigger a buss over-voltage error. Having the option of 1 and 3 second is a simple micro switch and also controlled by the E-Stop/VFD chosen.


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## Smudgemo (Dec 22, 2021)

I kept mine simple and just did a smallish control box to the left of the head: start, direction, speed, e-stop.  I haven't really wanted anything more but I'm pretty far from professional-grade.  I like the idea of adding a tach like mksj above ^^, though.


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## Just for fun (Dec 23, 2021)

Just following along,  I also have a 3 phase  935TS  enroute from Twain.  

 I went with the Hitachi WJ200-022SF VFD, pretty much the same features as you but I'm planning on using two control boxes.   Very similar to what David Best has on his mill.

Tim


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## litewings (Dec 23, 2021)

mksj said:


> The control system design/wiring depends on the VFD used, most of my mill designs are simple and do not use relays. If you want to go with the GS21 they can be ordered, and you can get in the line for the next shipment. The program parameters are schematic specific to the VFD that you use. How the jog will work needs to be checked out with the VFD you choose, but it can be done a number of different ways. I do not recommend a jog joystick on the mill as they are too large and interfere with the other controls. Either use two small buttons on the left side of the front panel or a smaller centering toggle switch. The GS21, WJ200 and E510 have small 24VDC power supplied that can be used for LED indicator lights. Suggested enclosure components list is attached.
> 
> Mills in back gear have very high momentum, so 1 second braking w/o and external braking resistor may trigger a buss over-voltage error. Having the option of 1 and 3 second is a simple micro switch and also controlled by the E-Stop/VFD chosen.


I can go with any of the 3 VFD's mentioned. I have the Hitachi WJ200 on my lathe. Are any of these three VFD's a better choice for using the controls I listed? I've seen the posts numerous times from people who used the Hitachi so expect knowledge base to be better on this. Mill is estimated to arrive at PM QMT between 2nd week and end of January. I don't want to be waiting on a backordered VFD.  For the momentary forward / reverse switch, I would prefer a toggle, but push buttons would be fine too. Attached pic of GT1340 enclosure.


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## mksj (Dec 23, 2021)

You can use the Hitachi with the schematic designs below. Essentially when you use the JOG F/R you it is the same as the run command with either the JOG input setting the speed or a programmed multi-speed input can be used. When the jog button/switch is released it disconnects the run signal and breaks the momentary stop circuit. It should work, but I have not built this design, although another person has and the basic activation logic appears to work correctly. He will also be using it on a 935 mill. So these are conceptual schematic designs that must be tested and verified by the user, and used at their own risk.  These are simple designs that do not use any relays and do not require an external power source for the switches using LED indicator lights. If built you may want to bench test everything first to make sure it works correctly. When I test my designs I use a 24VDC power source to verify the input logic is correct and then test with a VFD if available. These designs are for use with the WJ200 only and 3 wire control with source logic.
Mark


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## litewings (Dec 23, 2021)

mksj said:


> You can use the Hitachi with the schematic designs below. Essentially when you use the JOG F/R you it is the same as the run command with either the JOG input setting the speed or a programmed multi-speed input can be used. When the jog button/switch is released it disconnects the run signal and breaks the momentary stop circuit. It should work, but I have not built this design, although another person has and the basic activation logic appears to work correctly. He will also be using it on a 935 mill. So these are conceptual schematic designs that must be tested and verified by the user, and used at their own risk.  These are simple designs that do not use any relays and do not require an external power source for the switches using LED indicator lights. If built you may want to bench test everything first to make sure it works correctly. When I test my designs I use a 24VDC power source to verify the input logic is correct and then test with a VFD if available. These designs are for use with the WJ200 only and 3 wire control with source logic.
> Mark


Thanks for the diagrams. I proceeded to order the Hitachi WJ200-022SF and have not found one. Out of stock everywhere I tried so far. Ordered online with a couple suppliers that showed them. I got a backordered notice after order was placed so I canceled. Called them and checked backorder status. I've heard 4-14 weeks.  4 weeks is doable but its not guaranteed. Do you have diagrams/schematics for the Teco E510? I'll keep searching for the Hitachi for the moment.


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## mksj (Dec 23, 2021)

I do not have designs made in that configuration for other VFD manufactures. If you went with another brand of VFD, the simplest would be 2 wire control with it programmed not to start on power up if in a run mode, but it would still restart if you released the E-Stop in a run mode. The Jog for/rev are separate inputs. The inputs for both need to be flipped in back gear. It would take me some time to come up with a 3 wire diagram that would work with programming parameters, and some testing on your end. If you do not use the designated JOG inputs you can use the same diagram with 3 wire control on the most VFD's and the input 4 just sets a pre-set speed frequency. As I mentioned it will take some testing to see what works.

Other option is to look for a Hitachi WJ200-037LF (3 phase input, 5 Hp) and run it on single phase in a derated mode (i.e. 3 Hp), I often do this for drives and also allows them to run off of single or 3 phase. Did you check with PM/QMT, since you are buying the mill from them? The WJ200-022SF I mentioned has been out of stock for months, most recent lathe build I switched to a Yaskawa GA500.


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## litewings (Dec 23, 2021)

mksj said:


> I do not have designs made in that configuration for other VFD manufactures. If you went with another brand of VFD, the simplest would be 2 wire control with it programmed not to start on power up if in a run mode, but it would still restart if you released the E-Stop in a run mode. The Jog for/rev are separate inputs. The inputs for both need to be flipped in back gear. It would take me some time to come up with a 3 wire diagram that would work with programming parameters, and some testing on your end. If you do not use the designated JOG inputs you can use the same diagram with 3 wire control on the most VFD's and the input 4 just sets a pre-set speed frequency. As I mentioned it will take some testing to see what works.
> 
> Other option is to look for a Hitachi WJ200-037LF (3 phase input, 5 Hp) and run it on single phase in a derated mode (i.e. 3 Hp), I often do this for drives and also allows them to run off of single or 3 phase. Did you check with PM/QMT, since you are buying the mill from them? The WJ200-022SF I mentioned has been out of stock for months, most recent lathe build I switched to a Yaskawa GA500.


I did not check with PM/QMT. Didn't know they had VFD's for sale. Will call and find out. I found another supplier online that stated they had the WJ200 in stock but did not attempt ordering online after two failures today. Tried calling but it was after hours for them. Will try tomorrow.
Thanks for all the help!


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## Cletus (Dec 24, 2021)

I got mine from these guys. It's brand new in a sealed box with instructions and a CD. They have 91-pcs in stock, $229.95






						3 HP Hitachi Variable Frequency Motor Drive WJ200-022SF-CP Variable Frequency Drive | Variable Frequency Drives | AC 3 Phase Motors | Electric Motors | www.surpluscenter.com
					

3 HP Hitachi Variable Frequency Motor Drive WJ200-022SF-CP Variable Frequency Drive, Variable Frequency Drives,  VARIABLE FREQUENCY 1PH TO 3PH ACHitachi,WJ200-022SF-CP,



					www.surpluscenter.com


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## mksj (Dec 24, 2021)

I would not order that WJ200, the "CP" version has no cooling (no heat sink or fan) and they are designed to be mounted to large heat sinks. I know a few people that ordered that one and returned it. They will only work if you mount it to a large chunk of aluminum or a remote cooling system.








						KEB Liquid cooled VFDs - A good pairing for water cooled motors
					

KEB Liquid Cooled VFDs offer improved cooling for large power, high frequency, and dusty environments.




					www.kebamerica.com


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## litewings (Dec 24, 2021)

I seen those on my search yesterday and backed away after I researched the "CP" designation. Thanks for the lead anyway. I'm on a "call list" when the WJ200-022SF comes in at two different places. They are the ones that said 4 weeks. PM/QMT was closed today. Will call them Monday. Hoping they have a secret stash for their machine buyers.


----------



## Cletus (Dec 24, 2021)

Hmmm, was not aware of the CP thing when I ordered it, but mine's been working great so far, will keep an eye on it.
Merry Christmas guys!!


----------



## Just for fun (Dec 25, 2021)

I ordered a WJ200-022SF from Precision Matthew when I ordered my 950 the first part of November.  I did not verify they actually had in stock but there was no indication that they didn't have it.

Good luck I hope they have one for you.

Tim


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## litewings (Dec 27, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> I ordered a WJ200-022SF from Precision Matthew when I ordered my 950 the first part of November.  I did not verify they actually had in stock but there was no indication that they didn't have it.
> 
> Good luck I hope they have one for you.
> 
> Tim


Hitachi VFD ordered. Should be here 4-5 days. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## litewings (Dec 29, 2021)

Now with the Hitachi wj200 ordered, I'm making a list of parts to complete the controls. Of the schematics that Mark provided, I like this one the best, with a change. Can the speed be controlled with the speed pot instead of fixed "hz" by JOG? Or is that what a "fixed multi-bit input is?
If it's possible that is my choice for sure. What would the control schematic look like then?


----------



## mksj (Dec 29, 2021)

If you do not connect the JOG/multi-speed input then it will revert to the speed pot setting. There is hierarchical commands where some will over ride other commands, so for the jog input it over rides the speed pot and believe this is also true for the multi-speed inputs.


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## litewings (Dec 29, 2021)

That's good news. Thank you.


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## Cletus (Dec 29, 2021)

Just finished installing a big heatsink and 12v fan on my "CP" VFD.  Cost me $0.00 thanks to my extensive junk box


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## litewings (Dec 29, 2021)

Cletus said:


> Just finished installing a big heatsink and 12v fan on my "CP" VFD.  Cost me $0.00 thanks to my extensive junk box


Wondered about doing that too when I found those listed so reasonable in cost, but glad I found the non "CP" version.


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## litewings (Dec 29, 2021)

I'm ordering wiring supplies and have a question for the cable between the controls and the VFD. Located a shielded multiconductor cable to cover all connections needed to the control box. Should the wires from the speed pot be shielded from the rest of the control wires or can I use one cable to cover everything?


----------



## mksj (Dec 29, 2021)

I recommend shielded cable for the speed pot if it is more than 5-6', it can be in the same cable as the VFD control wire or separate. The shield is only connected at the VFD end and not at the machine end except for the motor cable. Unshielded wires can pick up VFD electrical noise, I have seen this several times as increased jitter on the VFD frequency and sometimes with tachs, etc. Typically less of an issue with the speed pot because I maximize the filter/jitter setting for the speed pot. I have also seen where people ran the control wires in the same conduit and/or close to the motor wires and had erratic false signaling.


----------



## litewings (Dec 31, 2021)

Most parts have been ordered for the VFD installation. One of the parts not yet ordered due to out of stock where I've checked is a 15A dual pole miniature breaker. I have found either a 16A with c curve or 15A with b curve or d curve available. This breaker will be used for 120V outlets used by two power feeds and the DRO, and a 12V power supply. With these loads, would the 15A b curve have a lot of nuisance tripping issues?


----------



## Cletus (Dec 31, 2021)

What do you plan on powering from that 120V 15A source?
On my rig, I'm running two LED down-lighter lamps, an aquarium air pump, Z and X Axis drives, an air solenoid valve, the 12V control power supply and the DRO.  Total 2.5A and 80% of that are intermittent loads, so I've got tons of headroom.


----------



## mksj (Dec 31, 2021)

I would use the 15A D curve, I have it setup on my mill to run the axis drives which can have a high start-up current, internal power supplies and the DRO. I use two duplex sockets, one connected to the L1 and the other to L2, N and G are in common. I use 4 wire power to my mill and lathe so I do not need to run additional extension cords and power strips. If you are also running power supplies (12/24VDC) they spec. a 15A breaker, I have used smaller breakers in some of my earlier builds and the breaker would partially trip on power-up because of the in-rush current.


----------



## litewings (Dec 31, 2021)

Cletus said:


> What do you plan on powering from that 120V 15A source?
> On my rig, I'm running two LED down-lighter lamps, an aquarium air pump, Z and X Axis drives, an air solenoid valve, the 12V control power supply and the DRO.  Total 2.5A and 80% of that are intermittent loads, so I've got tons of headroom.


For the beginning, Z and X drives, 12v power supply, and DRO.


----------



## litewings (Dec 31, 2021)

mksj said:


> I would use the 15A D curve, I have it setup on my mill to run the axis drives which can have a high start-up current, internal power supplies and the DRO. I use two duplex sockets, one connected to the L1 and the other to L2, N and G are in common. I use 4 wire power to my mill and lathe so I do not need to run additional extension cords and power strips. If you are also running power supplies (12/24VDC) they spec. a 15A breaker, I have used smaller breakers in some of my earlier builds and the breaker would partially trip on power-up because of the in-rush current.


I will get a D curve then. Seen those in stock most places. Thanks


----------



## Just for fun (Dec 31, 2021)

I just looked at what I have for both my lathe and my mill, they are both the C curve.  For the Lathe, I think it is just going to be the DRO so I shouldn't have a problem there.  But for the mill, I plan on X, Y and Z Axis drives and the DRO, how much of a problem is the C curve going to cause?  I can always change it later if it starts causing a problem.

Tim

P.S.  Automation Direct says they have 84 in stock.


			https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/search/search?fctype=adc.falcon.search.SearchFormCtrl&cmd=Search&searchquery=GMCBU-2D-15&categoryId=0&TxnNumber=-1&searchqty=10


----------



## mksj (Dec 31, 2021)

Its not a problem, I normally order the C curve breakers and have not had any issues. A D curve is usually used for motors that have high start-up currents for peroids that would be longer than say power supplies. It is just that they are out of the C curve, so I would go up as opposed to a B curve breaker. Breakers protect the wiring, and prevent over heating, they are designed for up to a 90% load for any extended times.


----------



## Just for fun (Dec 31, 2021)

Oh OK,  Got it.  I miss understood, I thought Litewings was looking for the D curve to start with.  I went back and reread the post. Thanks Mark

Tim


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## litewings (Jan 1, 2022)

Reading the install manual for the WJ200, I have not yet found an amperage or voltage for the signal lines on the VFD. Is 24AWG large enough for control wires? Estimating 10' at the most. Did find a chart in the manual that shows 18-28 AWG but doesn't say to what length. I need 11 conductors and would like to go to a 15 conductor cable to have some spares. 24AWG comes up available more that other sizes.


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## Just for fun (Jan 1, 2022)

What I have for mine is an 8 conductor 22 ga and a 3 conductor 16 ga.  There is very little amperage on the control wires so the small gauge wire should work fine.   Oh, by the way my 3 conductor is shielded the 8 conductor is non-shielded.

Tim

P.s.  I checked in the cargo ship that has the mills on it.   It made it through the Panama Canal and is moored at a port on the Pacific side of Panama.


----------



## litewings (Jan 1, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> What I have for mine is an 8 conductor 22 ga and a 3 conductor 16 ga.  There is very little amperage on the control wires so the small gauge wire should work fine.   Oh, by the way my 3 conductor is shielded the 8 conductor is non-shielded.
> 
> Tim
> 
> P.s.  I checked in the cargo ship that has the mills on it.   It made it through the Panama Canal and is moored at a port on the Pacific side of Panama.


Thought about two separate cables also and may end up doing that but would prefer not. I'm trying to keep the amount of spider webs to a minimum. I'm not a fan of cords everywhere and I'm sure I'll spend a lot of time tidying up the DRO cords and power feeds.

Thanks for info on the cargo. I'm guessing my machine is probably on the same ship but don't know that. I've not asked for any tracking info.


----------



## mksj (Jan 1, 2022)

Control wires I recommend 18-22G, 24G is too small and easily damaged and also needs tiny crimps/ferrules. I run 24VDC power from the VFD cabinet using 18G, as it needs to handle several amps at the machine. I use 20-22AWG 3 conductor for the speed pot and tachometer. If I have several cable I just zip tie them together (excludes the motor cable). Depends on the build and if I am using socket and plugs. Also you need to figure what cables go where. If you want to use a single cable, you can get 15 or 16C shielded cable, I have some if you have difficulty finding it.

FYI signal voltage is 24VDC, each input current is ~8 mA when active.









						Carol C0766A 22/15C Shielded Computer/Communications/Control Cable CMR Gray/25ft  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Carol C0766A 22/15C Shielded Computer/Communications/Control Cable CMR Gray/25ft at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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----------



## Cletus (Jan 1, 2022)

I used  about 10ft 24g 24 conductor shielded, nicely color coded, it's what i had available in the shop.


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## litewings (Jan 1, 2022)

mksj said:


> Control wires I recommend 18-22G, 24G is too small and easily damaged and also needs tiny crimps/ferrules. I run 24VDC power from the VFD cabinet using 18G, as it needs to handle several amps at the machine. I use 20-22AWG 3 conductor for the speed pot and tachometer. If I have several cable I just zip tie them together (excludes the motor cable). Depends on the build and if I am using socket and plugs. Also you need to figure what cables go where. If you want to use a single cable, you can get 15 or 16C shielded cable, I have some if you have difficulty finding it.
> 
> FYI signal voltage is 24VDC, each input current is ~8 mA when active.
> 
> ...


I have been attempting to find 20awg in a 15c shielded. I have found a few suppliers but most would sell at 50' minimums or more. My12v power supply will be used for the tach now and spindle halo later. I don't know the current draw of these yet either. My planning so far is the 15c cable between the control box on the head and VFD enclosure. 3 conductor for the back gear switch, 5 conductor for the tach pickup and 12v halo light.
Plan on using connectors at the control box.


----------



## Just for fun (Jan 1, 2022)

Mark,  What gauge cable do you use from the VFD to the motor.

Tim


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## mksj (Jan 2, 2022)

I use 14AWG shielded cable for 2 and 3 Hp motor, typically it is rated at 1000V because it is VFD specific. Not necessarily needed for short runs, just how I do it. Your are only looking at 6-8A for 3 phase, I believe the latest NEC guidelines for wire ratings is a minimum of 125% of the motor FLA output and input is 125% of the VFD FLA, it is not dependent on the motor it is running. The Southwire below is quite good and reasonable, other than the 20' minimum, but a lot less expensive then the LAPP/Belden that use. Problem with much of the wire is the minimum amounts and wastage.
https://www.automationdirect.com/ad..._multi-conductor_cable/vfd_cable/vfdc-14-4b-1

12C 18G Shielded


			https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/cables/bulk_multi-conductor_cable/600v_control_cable/cc600-18-12s-1


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## Just for fun (Jan 2, 2022)

Thanks for the info Mark,  I bought 20' of the 14AWG stuff for the lathe, I will have plenty for the Mill.


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## litewings (Jan 12, 2022)

A few things still needed to complete the controls and wiring connections. The machine is not here yet so looking on suggestions for the back gear reversing switch. Maybe it doesn't make much difference but has there been a switch that mounts easier or works better for the mounting location?
Some other parts that shouldn't be hard to get but have been giving  problems. Quick connectors for the wires into the switch box. I've ordered what i thought was a receptacle for the box and end for the cord. When received they are both male connectors, so back to the search. Any suggestions for a supplier with an easy to figure out listing of connectors that work together?


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## Cletus (Jan 12, 2022)

I really like these proximity devices. I've used a lot of them in industry over the years, no issues whatsoever. in this application, I used double sided tape to perfectly position it, then drilled and tapped the two mounting holes, followed by screws.


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## Just for fun (Jan 12, 2022)

I got these for the connection to my control boxes.

DIYhz GX16 8 Pins Panel Metal... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GZJ4VKF?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I bought some with 2, 3, and 5 pin connections also.

Tim


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## litewings (Jan 15, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> I got these for the connection to my control boxes.
> 
> DIYhz GX16 8 Pins Panel Metal... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GZJ4VKF?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
> 
> ...


Ordered 5 5pin connectors. Usually not a fan of solder terminals but at that price, I can live with it and have to spares too.


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## litewings (Jan 15, 2022)

Currently wiring up the control box. Going to have a service loop inside the box between switches and connectors that will be about 12" long.
Should the wires/cable inside the box between the speed pot and connector be shielded? I'm using shielded cable between the control box and VFD enclosure.


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## Just for fun (Jan 15, 2022)

litewings said:


> Currently wiring up the control box. Going to have a service loop inside the box between switches and connectors that will be about 12" long.
> *Should the wires/cable inside the box between the speed pot and connector be shielded?* I'm using shielded cable between the control box and VFD enclosure.



I don't think that little bit of a run would be necessary, but I'm not the expert.  I'm not planning on shielding mine.  I am planning on running shielded 3 conductor wire from the control box to the VFD enclosure, for the speed pot.

Tim


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## mksj (Jan 15, 2022)

litewings said:


> Should the wires/cable inside the box between the speed pot and connector be shielded? I'm using shielded cable between the control box and VFD enclosure.


No. Shield should be grounded only at VFD or star/buss ground in enclosure


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## litewings (Jan 16, 2022)

mksj said:


> No. Shield should be grounded only at VFD or star/buss ground in enclosure


Okay. Much easier to to make the service loop with 3 individual wires than the cable. I was contemplating running  the drain wire of the shielding from the pot through the control box connector and ground it at the VFD only, but don't know if that does any good at all. Just for my education, what is being to shielded from what?


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## mksj (Jan 16, 2022)

Electrical noise can be induced into the wires, this causes false signaling to the controls. The risk is very low, in the speed pot input I have measured it and seen it as more flickering of the Hz display. Depending on the VFD there is some degree of noise filtering which can decrease the error/prevent it but depends on the level of noise induced in the wire and the sensitivity of the input/function being operated on. Short runs unshielded is not going to cause any issues, but depending on the type of electrical noise induced, there are different grounding schemas. Grounding and electrical noise is more complex and just not a simple solution, sometimes takes trial and error to find out what works best or to see that there is an issue. VFD's create a lot of RFI/EMI and this can be radiated like an antenna and also transmitted back through the input power. 

One friend when he operated his lathe VFD,  his wireless operated vacuum blast gates would turn on,  another person tied the low level inputs with the motor cable had false signaling because the induced voltage into the signal wires. Phantom voltages are often a big problem with newer voltmeters, when measuring circuits where wires run in close proximity to other circuits, you shut one down and you will still measure an induced voltage from the other circuit, similar to how a transformer works. Typically the current is very low, in the old days they would use a light bulb to make sure the circuit wasn't hot, newer voltmeters have a LowZ setting which  adds a lower resistance across the line when measuring the voltage. I also had a similar problem with an erratic tachometer when the VFD was running, grounding the shield wire at either or both ends made it worse. I floated the shield at both ends and it went away, noise can also got in through the DC power supply. There are different types of electrical filters and grounding techniques that can be used.


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## Cletus (Jan 17, 2022)

.....and when that interference is intermittent, you're really pulling your hair out.  Right now I've got a PLC controlled nuclear bunker door (Cancer Treatment Linac Bunker) that has an intermittent issue, happens once in a blue moon, and it is driving us friggin CRAZY!


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## sr71xjet (Jan 20, 2022)

litewings said:


> Hitachi VFD ordered. Should be here 4-5 days. Thanks for the tip!


Who did you order your VFD from.  I am looking to get one also for my lathe coming.


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## Just for fun (Jan 20, 2022)

When I ordered my mill from Precision Matthews I also ordered the VFD.


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## sr71xjet (Jan 20, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> When I ordered my mill from Precision Matthews I also ordered the VFD.


I just put an email in to them about a VFD.  Thanks.


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## sdelivery (Jan 20, 2022)

litewings said:


> Ordered the 935TS with a 3 phase motor and need to get things ordered for the VFD installation. AC electrical is a definite weak point of mine so help is needed. I did the VFD install on my PM-1340GT a couple years ago with help from this forum and especially Mark Jacobs. That project went well and has been working with no problems. For the mill, Mark has already suggested in another thread the Teco L510 or E510 or Automation Direct GS20/21 series. I don't know differences between these. I'm guessing at this point I need to decide what controls I want/need. I have decided to go with braking and will need the external resistor for this. Is it two stage braking as it is on the lathe or just a single stage? Speed control on my lathe is a 270 degree input and I use about a third of its travel. Have read it other threads a three turn control on mills? Seems excessive. Am I missing something? Jog function needed? I do use it frequently on the lathe. A spindle tach would be great also but would probably add it later so what needs to be considered now for that? I will be installing two power feeds and three axis DRO now and possibly the third power feed later . Really like how Cletus built VFD and AC outlets into the base of the machine. Lots of questions. First mill and second VFD installation. Suggestions and guidance appreciated.


IF I were buying a brand new machine I would want feedback from the OEM on their recommendation.


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## sr71xjet (Jan 20, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> When I ordered my mill from Precision Matthews I also ordered the VFD.


Just ordered from PM.  WJ200-015SF $299  8 in stock as of today.


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## Just for fun (Jan 20, 2022)

Nice,  glad it worked out.


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## Cletus (Jan 20, 2022)

Super, that's a great VFD.


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## sr71xjet (Jan 20, 2022)

Cletus said:


> Super, that's a great VFD.


Should be here monday....but i still dont know what im doing......lol.


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## litewings (Jan 20, 2022)

sr71xjet said:


> Should be here monday....but i still dont know what im doing......lol.


I didn't know what I was doing 2 years ago when I did my first VFD install on the my lathe. Still don't know much. But this forum has been has given me all the help I've needed. And I'm super grateful for it. Looking forward to the arrival of the mill to give it a second go.


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## sr71xjet (Jan 20, 2022)

litewings said:


> I didn't know what I was doing 2 years ago when I did my first VFD install on the my lathe. Still don't know much. But this forum has been has given me all the help I've needed. And I super grateful for it. Looking forward to the arrival of the mill to give it a second go.


Hey that sounds great....


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## litewings (Feb 9, 2022)

Unexpected update. What a surprise.  I didn't even know it shipped! Electricians just left a couple hours ago after wiring in the receptacle.


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## Cletus (Feb 9, 2022)

No sleep for you tonite! 
Congratulatios!


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## Just for fun (Feb 9, 2022)

Congratulations !!


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## sr71xjet (Feb 9, 2022)

Let the chips start-a-flying.............


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## litewings (Feb 9, 2022)

Wasn't expecting it, so have some customers airplanes to get done before I dive into mill and start installing the DRO and power feeds as well as the VFD components. Will probably wake up early though and get started on cleaning it up.


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## Just for fun (Feb 10, 2022)

litewings said:


> Unexpected update. What a surprise.  I didn't even know it shipped! Electricians just left a couple hours ago after wiring in the receptacle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's odd they didn't notify you when it was on its way.  I had an email conversation with PM yesterday, they told me they would send me an email with tracking info when it shipped.  My mill is packaged and ready to ship but I am having them hold it until the lathe is ready and ship them at the same time.  Should only be a couple more days now.

Congrats again on the new mill.

Tim


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## litewings (Feb 10, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> It's odd they didn't notify you when it was on its way.  I had an email conversation with PM yesterday, they told me they would send me an email with tracking info when it shipped.  My mill is packaged and ready to ship but I am having them hold it until the lathe is ready and ship them at the same time.  Should only be a couple more days now.
> 
> Congrats again on the new mill.
> 
> Tim


I thought it odd too. I talked to them a week ago yesterday and it was thought to be ready to ship in a day or so. Also said I would get an email with shipping info when it ships. Did not get any notification that it shipped. Was just going to call them again yesterday to check status and the truck driver called and said he had a crate for me and would be here in 10 minutes. No complaints. I was here and the skid loader was too so it all worked out.


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## Cletus (Feb 10, 2022)

... you do aircraft work??


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## litewings (Feb 10, 2022)

Cletus said:


> ... you do aircraft work??


Yes. Mainly Experimentals and LSA.


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## Cletus (Feb 10, 2022)

Holy crap!   ....you've got nicer toys than I have!   I'm into large RC aircraft, Ducted Fan Jets, Turbine helis, etc.


----------



## litewings (Feb 10, 2022)

Cletus said:


> Holy crap!   ....you've got nicer toys than I have!   I'm into large RC aircraft, Ducted Fan Jets, Turbine helis, etc.


This one's a customers. Mine are in another hanger.  Never tried RC. I'm guessing I would crash just as soon as I turned around and all controls are opposite!

You were right on your other post. Not much sleep last night. Was here at 4 am cleaning the mill.


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## sr71xjet (Feb 10, 2022)

Looks like an RV7 maybe.....


----------



## ptrotter (Feb 10, 2022)

I’m building an RV-8.


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## sr71xjet (Feb 10, 2022)

ptrotter said:


> I’m building an RV-8.


Oh Man!!!  That is the one I want to build.  My buddy is building an RV14.  I love the RV8


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## ptrotter (Feb 10, 2022)

sr71xjet said:


> Oh Man!!!  That is the one I want to build.  My buddy is building an RV14.  I love the RV8


Does your username mean you flew SR-71s?


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## sr71xjet (Feb 10, 2022)

ptrotter said:


> Does your username mean you flew SR-71s?


No, but it is my all-time favorite aircraft.


----------



## Cletus (Feb 10, 2022)

You guys are killing me!


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## Cletus (Feb 10, 2022)

@litewings  So, are we talking kits, scratch-built, mods, resto, or all of the above?   Man, this has me so stoked!
Just watched the maiden video on Vimeo, what a turn-on! 
Apologies for the OT, just could not help myself!


----------



## litewings (Feb 10, 2022)

Cletus said:


> @litewings  So, are we talking kits, scratch-built, mods, resto, or all of the above?   Man, this has me so stoked!
> Just watched the maiden video on Vimeo, what a turn-on!
> Apologies for the OT, just could not help myself!



My work on aircraft is about a 50/50 split now between SLSA and Experimental (kit built) aircraft. Assisting builds on some kit aircraft for customers too.  
The lathe has been a butt saver a number of times for custom parts and I'm sure the mill will be too.


----------



## litewings (Feb 11, 2022)

This is the wiring diagram I followed for my controls with 2 differences. I did not use JOG so I have no connection to terminal 5. I installed a lighted E stop and will wire the light to the PLC terminal. 
What programming changes, if any, need to be done for the two stage braking on terminal 6?


----------



## litewings (Feb 12, 2022)

Some progress today, albeit not a lot.


----------



## litewings (Feb 18, 2022)

Everything is hooked up per schematic/plans. I believe ready to power up. Still have questions on the the programing for the 2 speed braking. I looked up the wiring I did on the lathe 2 years ago and have notes of some changes needed then that I don't see in the programming download I have from Mark. Reading those notes I feel relatively confident I can work through it  but would like some encouragement. As mentioned a few posts prior to this I used this plan without the jog function and with a lighted E-stop. Any help appreciated before I power-up.
Thanks.


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## mksj (Feb 18, 2022)

General recommended WJ200 parameter file for 3 HP mill using 3 wire control is attached. In general if you are using a 4 pole motor, you can run them to 120 Hz w/o issues. I do not recommend running the motor below 20 Hz for any extended time.
Mark


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## litewings (Feb 19, 2022)

mksj said:


> General recommended WJ200 parameter file for 3 HP mill using 3 wire control is attached. In general if you are using a 4 pole motor, you can run them to 120 Hz w/o issues. I do not recommend running the motor below 20 Hz for any extended time.
> Mark


Still needing to confirm settings for input terminal 6 on the vfd for 2 stage braking. I have the switch wired to this location. I believe I need to change the programing for this location (C006). Looking at the programming document (page16) it looks like I need the change things around for C006 and C005. I don't know if its possible to just change the programming in C006 to say the same as C005. Maybe easiest to just change my braking switch to terminal 5 since I'm not using jog and 5 is open. After this programming change I will change A093, deceleration time (2) to 3 seconds. Is any of this correct?


----------



## mksj (Feb 19, 2022)

Two inputs cannot be programmed to the same function so either change the input wire to the programmed input, or reprogram the input the wire is connected to the function you want.


----------



## litewings (Feb 19, 2022)

Well,, Its alive! Almost all working correctly except for the momentary forward and reverse toggle. I must have something wired wrong there. Only runs in forward direction when toggle is pressed to either direction. 

Thanks again Mark and others for all the help!


!


----------



## Cletus (Feb 19, 2022)

Very cool!   ...Congratulations!


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## Just for fun (Feb 19, 2022)

Congratulations Man!  Cheers!


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## litewings (Feb 27, 2022)

Those of you that have worked with Hitachi WJ200-022sf VFD, I hope you can shed some light on a quirk. When I first programed my VFD I noticed the braking resistor was set at 35 ohm. I bought a 50 ohm and installed it. That said, I didn't test it at installation to confirm that. Maybe packaged wrong or I just got the wrong one. Had to do some changes on a couple other settings so I checked my resistor and it is 50 ohm. Is there a way to change the ohms setting on the parameters on the VFD? I haven't had an issue as of yet on how the braking is working but don't have many hours of run time yet. For the moment, I'm not worrying about it.


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## mksj (Feb 27, 2022)

Mentioned this in a recent post, the VFD senses the resistor but puts in a generic fixed value not the actual resistance value. The braking characteristics of the external resistor is based on the actual value of the resistor and not the value that the VFD enters in the programmed value.


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## Cletus (Feb 27, 2022)

Same thing here, I think I read somewhere the VFD internally decides the value somehow and just runs with that. My resistor is in fact 60ohm but the VFD decided on some strange value on its own.  I just left it in its folly and moved on, it works well for me.  Maybe @mksj could chime in on this phenomenon?


EDIT
OOPS!    .... @mksj already addressed it!


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## litewings (Feb 27, 2022)

Thanks for the answer. Somewhat of an oddity that it can't place a correct value. Oh well, it works.


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## litewings (Mar 2, 2022)

So asking for help on this issue. As mentioned a few posts back, everything is working except the momentary forward reverse toggle switch. It runs the spindle in one direction (forward/clockwise) when the toggle is pressed in either forward or reverse. I figured I had something wired wrong. I have been over the diagram many times and can not find anything connected different the the schematic shows.
Again, to repeat what I did different from the schematic, I did not wire the jog function into terminal 5. I did not want a set speed in the toggle switch and want it to use the speed set by the speed pot. Is this the issue or does someone have an idea what to look for next? I believe its a problem in the wiring of the switches for controls and not the programming, but I don't know. Plan for tomorrow is to wire a lead to the jog function and program it to see what this does.


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## Just for fun (Mar 2, 2022)

Maybe a bad diode?  Does it matter if you have the reverse gear engaged or not?


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## litewings (Mar 2, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> Maybe a bad diode?  Does it matter if you have the reverse gear engaged or not?


It will turn in reverse if the reverse switch is engaged. But it turns in reverse when the momentary switch is pushed in either direction.


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## litewings (Mar 2, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> Maybe a bad diode?  Does it matter if you have the reverse gear engaged or not?


Tested the diodes today and all were good.


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## Just for fun (Mar 2, 2022)

Comparing your wiring to the one I am using; it looks like there are a couple of diodes missing.  Mark will have to chime in, I'm probably wrong.

But here is a screen shot of the wiring I am using or going to use I should say.


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## mksj (Mar 3, 2022)

The additional diodes are optional, you can try wiring them in and see if it works. Normally what I I do is test the logic commands by using a 12 or 24VDC power supply connected to L (NEG) and P24 (POS), connect a volt meter to the negative and then measure the voltage on the output 1-6 as I activate the buttons. I have not built these schematics, and sometimes it is hard to say how the VFD's will respond. I typically use 2 wire control but requires relays and a different wiring setup. 

So I would first see if the run forward/reverse work correctly and then recheck them in back gear. Also check that the JOG buttons have no effect when the 3 position maintained is in forward or reverse positions.  This will indicate if the main system wiring is correct and then can look at the JOG circuit. Also need to check the wiring to the momentary switches, that you co not have the NO and NC reversed, the center is the common for the brown wire and the NO side needs to be connected as indicated.


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## litewings (Mar 3, 2022)

mksj said:


> The additional diodes are optional, you can try wiring them in and see if it works. Normally what I I do is test the logic commands by using a 12 or 24VDC power supply connected to L (NEG) and P24 (POS), connect a volt meter to the negative and then measure the voltage on the output 1-6 as I activate the buttons. I have not built these schematics, and sometimes it is hard to say how the VFD's will respond. I typically use 2 wire control but requires relays and a different wiring setup.
> 
> So I would first see if the run forward/reverse work correctly and then recheck them in back gear. Also check that the JOG buttons have no effect when the 3 position maintained is in forward or reverse positions.  This will indicate if the main system wiring is correct and then can look at the JOG circuit. Also need to check the wiring to the momentary switches, that you co not have the NO and NC reversed, the center is the common for the brown wire and the NO side needs to be connected as indicated.


Run forward/reverse work correctly and also work correctly in back gear. Momentary forward/reverse toggle (JOG) will not work if the Run forward /reverse is not in the center off position. I'm using NO switches (automated direct joystick). I will continue testing. Since it wasn't mentioned, I'll ask again to be sure. I did not use the jog wire connection from the NO forward momentary to the # 5 terminal as I wanted the speed pot to adjust rpm. Is that OK? Thanks for the testing procedures and help.


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## mksj (Mar 3, 2022)

It should work w/wo input 5 activated, input 5 just sets a fixed speed. The momentary F/R will only work when the F/R selector is in the stop position.


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## litewings (Mar 3, 2022)

Results as of now. Added the other two diodes as shown in Just for fun's schematic. No change.
Went back to testing all functions and caught something I never checked. I did not check the momentary joystick in back gear.

Back gear in high:  
                                Run - forward. OK
                                Run - reverse.  OK
                                Momentary toggle - forward, runs forward.  OK
*Momentary toggle - reverse, runs forward also. NOT OK*

Back gear in low:    
                                Run - forward. OK
                                Run - reverse.  OK
                                Momentary toggle - forward, runs forward, OK
* Momentary toggle - reverse, runs reverse,  OK*
These results were the same with the other two diodes added and not added as I originally had it so I went back to my original wiring without them.


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## mksj (Mar 3, 2022)

The back gear switch, the common needs to connect to input 3, NO to forward of the maintained switch and NC is to the Reverse of the maintained switch. Try a temporary bypass wire as shown in red below and try the high speed momentary reverse. This will activate input 3 directly, it will isolate the issue to the wiring back gear switch wiring or something with the momentary switch wiring. Unless I wire these up myself, I have no means of checking the input logic and VFD programming.


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## litewings (Mar 4, 2022)

I'll have to time to try this later today or tomorrow. I do know that while I was checking things I had the back gear switch connection unhooked at the control box and was using a jumper across the pins. It did the same as with the switch.


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## litewings (Mar 5, 2022)

mksj said:


> The back gear switch, the common needs to connect to input 3, NO to forward of the maintained switch and NC is to the Reverse of the maintained switch. Try a temporary bypass wire as shown in red below and try the high speed momentary reverse. This will activate input 3 directly, it will isolate the issue to the wiring back gear switch wiring or something with the momentary switch wiring. Unless I wire these up myself, I have no means of checking the input logic and VFD programming.
> View attachment 398975


Checked the wiring for the back gear reversing switch. It is correct. Jumper wire had no change.


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## mksj (Mar 5, 2022)

I have no other suggestions, other than to test the logic to the output pins using a power supply and checking the voltage to the pins. One reason why I build these systems so I can check all the logic/functions. It appears that input 3 is not receiving an active signal. You could try a jumper to input 3 wire connection from P24 wires and try to activate the momentary reverse switch.  Tracing the wiring paths it should work. The only other thing to check would be that the polarity of the diode is in the wrong direction in the reverse SW pink wire or less likely the diode is not working. One reason why I check the logic with a power supply before I install any systems.


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## Cletus (Mar 5, 2022)

Mine is wired quite differently to yours, but check the logic at Terminals 1 and 2 (fwd and rev) with reference to L-PLC. 
In other words, with reference to the L-PLC connection, P24 (+24V) to terminal 1 should run the motor FWD and P24 (+24V) to terminal 2 should run the motor REV.
Hope this helps

My wiring scheme is as follows:


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## Just for fun (Mar 5, 2022)

litewings said:


> Results as of now. Added the other two diodes as shown in Just for fun's schematic. No change.
> Went back to testing all functions and caught something I never checked. I did not check the momentary joystick in back gear.
> 
> Back gear in high:
> ...



It's interesting that it works normal with the back gear engaged.


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## mksj (Mar 5, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> It's interesting that it works normal with the back gear engaged.


That would be because there is no connection to input 3 when in back gear and one presses the reverse, and if the forward works correctly then it would indicate that the diode orientation for the reverse switch could be an issue.

Cletus, your system is setup for 2 wire control, which is a different animal than 3 wire control. You would also want USP enabled all the time to prevent a run mode on power up if the spindle control was left in F/R position. In this build he opted not to use the JOG input to set a fixed speed, in this case I usually just omit the momentary buttons and just flip the F/R control when threading. I use spiral taps so I tap in one continuous process.


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## Just for fun (Mar 5, 2022)

So, if I am following correctly there is something wrong with one of these two wires or connections or diodes?

Tim


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## mksj (Mar 5, 2022)




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## Cletus (Mar 5, 2022)

mksj said:


> ...Cletus, your system is setup for 2 wire control, which is a different animal than 3 wire control.


Ahhhhh, yes my bad!


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## litewings (Mar 5, 2022)

mksj said:


> View attachment 399147


I'll concentrate on this. Will check Monday after I get a fuse for my multimeter.


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## litewings (Mar 5, 2022)

mksj said:


> View attachment 399147


I must be missing something about this. The reversing switch in the schematic is showing it to be in back gear correct? If this is correct, then there is a path for terminal 3 on the VFD to get a signal. And mine works fine in this mode. So If the back gear switch is in the standard Hi gear position, the forward run switch connection, shouldn't the connections noted on Just for funs be the likely problem? What am I not seeing?


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## mksj (Mar 5, 2022)

The back gear switch has a common goint to input 3, a NO and a NC with switch not activated.  The diagram picture shows it not in back gear. When you put it in back gear the switch contacts reverse NO->goes close and NC-> goes open.  You cannot use a continuity ohm meter to check the logic because of the diodes, but you could use a diode checker or a battery with a volmeter to check if input logic. When it is not in back gear the NC switch for the sustained reverse position has a pathway to activate input 3, the same holds true for the momentary reverse button. When you put it in back gear everything is flipped.


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## litewings (Mar 5, 2022)

mksj said:


> The back gear switch has a common goint to input 3, a NO and a NC with switch not activated.  The diagram picture shows it not in back gear. When you put it in back gear the switch contacts reverse NO->goes close and NC-> goes open.  You cannot use a continuity ohm meter to check the logic because of the diodes, but you could use a diode checker or a battery with a volmeter to check if input logic. When it is not in back gear the NC switch for the sustained reverse position has a pathway to activate input 3, the same holds true for the momentary reverse button. When you put it in back gear everything is flipped.


Ok. I'll ingest this for a while and continue next week. A gracious thank you for the help. It's the weekend, not bothering anyone now.


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## davidpbest (Mar 5, 2022)

My head is starting to hurt.


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## Just for fun (Mar 10, 2022)

@litewings  Have you made any progress on your jog problem?


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## litewings (Mar 10, 2022)

Haven't had time to pursue it. Needed to get things wrapped up on work items. On vacation now.


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## Just for fun (Mar 10, 2022)

Got it.  I fully understand getting work stuff done.  I have a little Hobbie Farm that sometimes keeps me out of the shop.

Enjoy your vacation!

Tim


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