# Practised grinding tonight



## DavidR8 (Sep 15, 2020)

I'm building a new stand for my 4x6 bandsaw. Using 16 ga, 1" square tube. I was going to try TIG'ing it together but my TIG skills just aren't there yet. So I broke out the Millermatic 130.
Suffice it to say. I'm out of practice...but I did get in some grinding practice. Sigh....


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## ACHiPo (Sep 15, 2020)

Hey skills is skills


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## DavidR8 (Sep 15, 2020)

Indeed. In all honesty I don't put in enough hood time so my expectations are too high.


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## mickri (Sep 15, 2020)

What no pictures?  C'mon David you know the rules. We want to see pictures.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 15, 2020)

mickri said:


> What no pictures? C'mon David you know the rules. We want to see pictures.



All right, all right...
Here’s an as-welded bead. 
.030 wire 






And my magnificent grinding. 






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## Aukai (Sep 15, 2020)

The holes are from not being clean, or too much air movement, you may need to up the gas if you have a breeze.


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## sycle1 (Sep 15, 2020)

What is the old saying, a tack weld can hold a ton.
That will never break, might not win any welding awards, but the job is done.
I was welder when I was younger and nowadays I do welds worse than that with my MIG. LOL!


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## DavidR8 (Sep 15, 2020)

Part of my challenge is that I have a hard time seeing the puddle with my current helmet. 
I tried the new Esab Savage 40 at my LWS and was utterly amazed by the clarity and colour. 
I should have one by the end of the week. 


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## DavidR8 (Sep 15, 2020)

Aukai said:


> The holes are from not being clean, or too much air movement, you may need to up the gas if you have a breeze.



Indeed I likely missed grinding off a bit of the powder coating. 


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## francist (Sep 15, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I should have one by the end of the week.


I thought you bought a new Blue Demon a while back, or is this the one you don’t like?
Had an Aha moment over the weekend myself with welding — I’ve always loved my Optrel helmet but the cartridge gave out. After leaving it sit beside my bed for several years I suddenly wondered if I could switch the cartridge from my crappy Lincoln into the Optrel hood. Well, you can (I’m sure others knew this) and I’m back to wearing the Optrel again 
Still the Lincoln cartridge, but it does feel and see better.

-frank


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## DavidR8 (Sep 15, 2020)

francist said:


> I thought you bought a new Blue Demon a while back, or is this the one you don’t like?
> Had an Aha moment over the weekend myself with welding — I’ve always loved my Optrel helmet but the cartridge gave out. After leaving it sit beside my bed for several years I suddenly wondered if I could switch the cartridge from my crappy Lincoln into the Optrel hood. Well, you can (I’m sure others knew this) and I’m back to wearing the Optrel again
> Still the Lincoln cartridge, but it does feel and see better.
> 
> -frank



I didn’t end up buying the Blue Demon because I couldn’t find one to try. 
I watched some reviews of the Esab and Barry Hamel had one that they let me try. I was completely amazed by the difference. 
It has a 1/1/1/2 clarity rating which is the same as the high end Esabs, Lincoln’s, and Optrels. 

Good job on reviving your Optrel. I wouldn’t have thought that a switch would work. 


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## NC Rick (Sep 15, 2020)

Like you, I am working on building my tig skill. I had problems with that sort of porosity when the Tig weld got 100% penetration and picked up the backside rust or other contaminants.  Once it started, it wouldn't quit.  I found that I could use 309 filler and it would weld fine.  If I pick up a bad area, I grab the 309 and often can got back to the ER70 after just a small amount of good weld is established.  I'm not sure if I have the answer or even the cause but I thought I might mention it in the chance it helps you.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 15, 2020)

Thanks Rick, that’s good advice. I’ll pick up some 309 as my next build is also using reclaimed steel. 


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## Janderso (Sep 15, 2020)

Every time i mig weld i need to practice on a piece of scrap.
My mig welds typically have a large fillet. More  heat and move faster, i tells myself.
Brave man David, you got a dare to show your welds. I didn’t think you would fall for it


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## NC Rick (Sep 15, 2020)

The 309 is expensive but really helpful welding unknown material.  I use it for welding a socket to the end of a wrench and those sort of things too.  It will be well worth having a pack of it around.  Rusty, cruddy steel isn't where TIG shines but I still use it because how clean it is in the shop.  I haven't used a stick weld since getting it, even though I likely should have.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 15, 2020)

Thanks Jeff, I have no issue showing my lousy welds here. Elsewhere not so much. 


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## lis2323 (Sep 15, 2020)

I for one used to blame my hood for not being able to see the puddle. 

Quality helmets make a world of difference for color and clarity but I think my biggest problem was moving my head to a position where I could actually “see”








These two no name ADs I purchased for $5 each and they work fine although the headgear on one is poor...


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## DavidR8 (Sep 15, 2020)

Thanks @lis2323, it was definitely better last night. I used a desk lamp to light the work and that helped a lot. I changed the protective lenses and that also helped some. The helmet is 15 years old and it's starting to not always darken. The batteries are not replaceable so that's a real problem.


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## lis2323 (Sep 15, 2020)

I added an Energizer LED from Canadian Tire to this Tweco lid that came free with a Thermal Arc I bought. It works well but does get in the way sometimes so it is not ideal. 







Chin height would work best for lighting IMO

The Weld Cote helmet in the picture was sent to me from a welding consultant friend. It is my go to at the moment. 







You can’t beat it for comfort and clarity. I think they are around the $100usd mark on Amazon.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 15, 2020)

Thanks @lis2323, the headlamp is a good idea. I found that even with sensitivity turned down, the desklamp would trigger the AD and then I couldn't see a thing.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 15, 2020)

I feel somewhat better about my lousy welds after reading that 16 ga is decidedly difficult to weld, even for seasoned welders.


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## francist (Sep 15, 2020)

As goofy as it looks, this actually helps a lot. Hardware store checkout counter special, the trouble is the switch goes wonky after a while and it stops working. Cheap to replace though.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 15, 2020)

francist said:


> As goofy as it looks, this actually helps a lot. Hardware store checkout counter special, the trouble is the switch goes wonky after a while and it stops working. Cheap to replace though.
> 
> View attachment 337119



Brilliant idea Frank! 


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## Cadillac (Sep 15, 2020)

Do yourself a favor buy a magnification lense for your helmet it makes a world of difference. I have 20/20 and like others had a hard time seeing the puddle sometimes. With the lense it’s a whole different ball game. I think it’s a 2x.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 15, 2020)

Cadillac said:


> Do yourself a favor buy a magnification lense for your helmet it makes a world of difference. I have 20/20 and like others had a hard time seeing the puddle sometimes. With the lense it’s a whole different ball game. I think it’s a 2x.



I have 2x safety glasses but they are absolutely worthless under the hood. 
I’ve got a 2x lens coming with the Esab helmet. 


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## rwm (Sep 15, 2020)

I am dying to try this:




__





						Optrel Crystal 2.0 Welding Helmet 1006.900
					






					store.cyberweld.com
				



Robert


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## erikmannie (Sep 15, 2020)

I think that your weld beads show tremendous promise. I am in a similar situation as you, and I take every opportunity to weld on coupons.

Hopefully you have hundreds of hours to spend welding coupons.

The coupons I use are about 1” X 3” mild steel with an approximate thickness of .090”-.120”.

When you get the coupons, you will see that you can do stringers, butt joints, lap joints, fillet joints, T-joints, and edge joints before they end up scrap.

I usually won’t even take the time to grind off the mill scale. If it is too boring for you, you can put on some music. I really enjoy welding with headphones on.

Coupons are the best way to rack up the hundreds of hours of hood time needed for beautiful beads.

I stick welded on coupons for about 14 hours last weekend. I did not take the time to take even a single photo because I wanted to just burn rods.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 15, 2020)

Gosh, I appreciate your vote of confidence Erik! 
I freely admit that I don’t spend enough time practicing. 
That’s going to change now that my shop is mostly sorted out. 


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## erikmannie (Sep 15, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Gosh, I appreciate your vote of confidence Erik!
> I freely admit that I don’t spend enough time practicing.
> That’s going to change now that my shop is mostly sorted out.
> 
> ...



I try to spend as much time as possible doing the processes (e.g. multipass fillet TIG weld or knurling mild steel). I will never go on Facebook or Instagram because, to me, this takes time away from the work. This forum is special, however.

When I fabricate something, I don’t spend enough time actually welding. The hot work is the most fun part; I enjoy the action!


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## DavidR8 (Sep 15, 2020)

rwm said:


> I am dying to try this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hear that it’s like looking through clear glass. 
Shame it’s near $600 in Canada. 


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## Aukai (Sep 15, 2020)

The Lincoln 4C is good,, and I also have the Optrel e64, not sure how it is compared to the 2.0, but not like looking through clear glass. The Lincoln uses the common cheater inserts, the Optrel has their own design that you get from them.  I was able to find up to 350 cheaters on Ebay for the Lincoln, but the Optrel only show up to 250


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## mikey (Sep 15, 2020)

I gotta' agree that being able to see the puddle is crucial to a good weld but there are so many other variables at play - voltage, amps, cleanliness, practice/practice/practice, gas flow rates, etc. Mig welding is fun and allows those of us who are not real weldors to stick stuff together but it really helps when everything is right.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 16, 2020)

mikey said:


> I gotta' agree that being able to see the puddle is crucial to a good weld but there are so many other variables at play - voltage, amps, cleanliness, practice/practice/practice, gas flow rates, etc. Mig welding is fun and allows those of us who are not real weldors to stick stuff together but it really helps when everything is right.



I’m looking forward to being able to see the puddle. Right now all I can see is a green light. There’s zero definition or clarity. 


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## mickri (Sep 16, 2020)

I added a 3.5 cheater lens to my cheapy HF helmet.  Made a world of difference in being able to see what's going on.  Good lighting also helps.  If I really need to see something and I can get real close I will wear my 2.0 reading glasses inside the helmet.  That gives me 7x magnification.  I've posted my lousy welds in other threads. I practice on .060 exhaust tubing.  Here's some pic's to keep everybody happy.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 16, 2020)

mickri said:


> I added a 3.5 cheater lens to my cheapy HF helmet. Made a world of difference in being able to see what's going on. Good lighting also helps. If I really need to see something and I can get real close I will wear my 2.0 reading glasses inside the helmet. That gives me 7x magnification. I've posted my lousy welds in other threads. I practice on .060 exhaust tubing. Here's some pic's to keep everybody happy.
> 
> View attachment 337160
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing your welds. 
Good tip on the readers. I have a pair. I might just try them tonight!


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## erikmannie (Sep 16, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks for sharing your welds.
> Good tip on the readers. I have a pair. I might just try them tonight!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What sort of magnification have you been using?

I use a 2.5X cheater in my Miller helmets & 2.5X, 3X or (rarely) 5X eyeglasses in my “cheaterless” helmets.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 16, 2020)

I can’t get magnifying lenses for my helmet so I’ve been using my safety glasses which have a magnifying area at the bottom of the lens, like bifocals. 
Problem is that means I have to have the helmet tipped down to see through its lens. And because it’s tipped down my breath tends to fog the inside. 
So not good all around. 


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## erikmannie (Sep 16, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I can’t get magnifying lenses for my helmet so I’ve been using my safety glasses which have a magnifying area at the bottom of the lens, like bifocals.
> Problem is that means I have to have the helmet tipped down to see through its lens. And because it’s tipped down my breath tends to fog the inside.
> So not good all around.
> 
> ...


Have you ever tried 2.5X or 3X eyeglasses in the helmet? I buy cheap ones on Amazon.


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## Aukai (Sep 16, 2020)

Get full sized readers from the drug store, the smaller sized lenses will be too low on your nose. Get something with a focal length that will focus at the distance you are comfortable welding at. It may be a dramatic number because you normally read at arms length, welding is much closer.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 16, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> Have you ever tried 2.5X or 3X eyeglasses in the helmet?



No but I’m going to now!


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## erikmannie (Sep 16, 2020)

Aukai said:


> Get full sized readers from the drug store, the smaller sized lenses will be too low on your nose. Get something with a focal length that will focus at the distance you are comfortable welding at. It may be a dramatic number because you normally read at arm length, welding is much closer.



With my 2.5X readers, I can weld “at a normal distance”. With 3X, I have to go in a little closer, but it is not a problem.

With 5X, I can see wonderfully, but I have to get ridiculously close.

Some schools & employers require safety glasses (with side protection) to be worn in the helmet, which is why I love a cheater lens.

I have had sparks get inside my hood (always with stick welding at 125+ Amps), so there IS a risk if you are depending solely on hood + eyeglasses.

I bought some “anti-fogging” 2.5X safety glasses at the LWS, but they usually fog up on me.


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## Aukai (Sep 16, 2020)

That's where he has to find his happy medium. What ever posture you use welding comfortably, is where the glasses should be the clearest, plus factor in the shading, that may bring you in closer. I have to admit I'm blind AF in a helmet.


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## erikmannie (Sep 16, 2020)

My vision is so poor that I would be unable to weld without at least 2.5X magnification.

As posted above, maybe a localized, powerful light would help matters.


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## mickri (Sep 16, 2020)

No shortage of places where you can buy cheaters.  Every drugstore has them as well as Walmart, Costco, and Sams up to 3.25.  Some hardware stores also sell them.  Online you can get them up to 5.  Maybe higher.  As the magnification gets higher the focal length gets shorter and narrower.  The half lens ones that sit on the tip of your nose don't work.  I buy medium size glasses that pretty much cover everything except for my peripheral vision.  For really close work I sometimes wear two pair.  Looks really stupid but gets to job done.


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## lis2323 (Sep 16, 2020)

mickri said:


> No shortage of places where you can buy cheaters. Every drugstore has them as well as Walmart, Costco, and Sams up to 3.25. .



I think in reference to cheaters when used in the welding context they are the rectangular lenses that slide into the provided slot inside a welding helmet.


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## tjb (Sep 16, 2020)

I think your welds look good.  Like someone said above, not award-winning, but they'll hold.  That's the description of my welds, as well.

FYI, I use 3.00 reading glasses under my helmet when welding.  They work fine.  Never tried magnifying lenses, but I think I will.

Regards,
Terry


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## lis2323 (Sep 16, 2020)

As I mentioned earlier what helped me the most was

1.. light

2...not being afraid to move my head around for a better view WHILE the arc is struck.


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## WobblyHand (Sep 16, 2020)

I find it incredibly helpful to have pretty bright lighting of what you are working on.  Have a HO fluorescent  fixture over my welding table, with an articulating arm to position it.  (If I were to do it again, I'd use a 6000 lumen LED lamp.)  Without the bright lighting, terrible welds.  With the lights, welds are ok.  It really helps to see what you are doing!  Just the light from your arc isn't enough!


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## DavidR8 (Sep 16, 2020)

WobblyHand said:


> I find it incredibly helpful to have pretty bright lighting of what you are working on.  Have a HO fluorescent  fixture over my welding table, with an articulating arm to position it.  (If I were to do it again, I'd use a 6000 lumen LED lamp.)  Without the bright lighting, terrible welds.  With the lights, welds are ok.  It really helps to see what you are doing!  Just the light from your arc isn't enough!


Any chance you can share a pic of your setup?


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## WobblyHand (Sep 16, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Any chance you can share a pic of your setup?


Sure, give me a couple of minutes to go out to the garage.  What you see won't be pretty, but you will get the idea.
Hmm, that light isn't HO.  The one on the ceiling is HO.  Anyways, the idea is to have strong lighting over your table.


Told you it was a mess!  Trying to fix a plasma cutter...  You can see the pivot over the light.  In the second picture you can see the rest of the mechanism.  Welded a couple of 1/4" plates onto that big chunk of angle iron to act as the main hinge.


Oh yeah, if you are welding or cutting, keep a fire extinguisher (or two!) handy.


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## Aukai (Sep 16, 2020)

This is a mag base light I can move around...Quasar bright


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## DavidR8 (Sep 16, 2020)

Aukai said:


> This is a mag base light I can move around...Quasar bright


No kidding that's bright! I think that cloth is starting to smoke


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## Aukai (Sep 16, 2020)

HAHA, I had to put down a black T shirt because the glare off of the chuck was too bright.


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## WobblyHand (Sep 16, 2020)

@DavidR8 take a look, I updated the post with pictures.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 16, 2020)

WobblyHand said:


> @DavidR8 take a look, I updated the post with pictures.


Thanks for those pics. They give me a bit of an idea. I have a couple of LED lights leftover from my reno that I'm going to rig up into something similar.


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## WobblyHand (Sep 16, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks for those pics. They give me a bit of an idea. I have a couple of LED lights leftover from my reno that I'm going to rig up into something similar.


Glad to help!  Good task lighting helps you weld better.


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## Aukai (Sep 16, 2020)

Just make sure the light does not get behind you, it'll glare in the helmet.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 16, 2020)

Aukai said:


> Just make sure the light does not get behind you, it'll glare in the helmet.


Yes, I'm battling a bit of that too. I might add some cloth to the back of my hood.


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## Papa Charlie (Sep 16, 2020)

Not to belabor this, you are doing well on your welding.

A couple of observations, your too cold, your penetration shows it, also, the rounded welds. You would be better off upping the amperage and regulating the penetration and bead by your speed. You may also want to slow the wire feed down just a little.

Also, instead of dragging the wire in a straight line, you can see this in the "<<<<<" pattern, create an arch "CCCCCCCCC" type of motion. You should be pushing the rod into the C so that the opening is where your wire is feeding and you back away from the advancement of the bead.

A little practice and you will be in like Flint!


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## DavidR8 (Sep 16, 2020)

Papa Charlie said:


> Not to belabor this, you are doing well on your welding.
> 
> A couple of observations, your too cold, your penetration shows it, also, the rounded welds. You would be better off upping the amperage and regulating the penetration and bead by your speed. You may also want to slow the wire feed down just a little.
> 
> ...


Gosh, thank you for the encouragement, it's really appreciated.
I'm definitely struggling with the settings. I measure the wire feed speeds the other day so that I would have some clue where I was at.
This what I have for speeds.  I was running 300 IPM 50, second tap of four for voltage. No idea what the actual voltage is though...

*Speed*IPM101002015030220402605030060340703808046090500100570


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## Papa Charlie (Sep 16, 2020)

It is a balance act between heat and wire feed. You have a starting point now. Take a piece of scrap and stay at the speed you have but increase the heat and see what you get. Then try reducing the speed and see what that produces. 
Every machine is different and of course the speed at which you advance. I like a much hotter puddle to ensure I am getting good penetration. After that I just adjust the wire speed to fit my welding style. 
You are well on your way. Repetition is the key. You will know by the looks of the bead when you are dialed in. Once you get that, everything is an adjustment from those settings to fit the material. 
And don't forget, have some fun with it. For me, I try to make every weld look like it was welded by a machine. Don't always get it but that is my goal.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 17, 2020)

After a bunch of reading about wire speed and watching some videos last night, I put in a bit of practice this morning.
All I can say is wow, thank you @Papa Charlie for the advice on reducing wire speed. That made all the difference.
I was at 50 or 300 IPM.
This morning I kept the same voltage setting but reduced the wire speed to 20 or 150, basically in half.
Here are the results






Inside of the above weld showing penetration.




The little divots below are from where I dragged the  nozzle across the weld pool.





Struggling with going straight. But I'm not blowing through!!!!


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## Papa Charlie (Sep 17, 2020)

Now that looks much better. You can see the penetration that you are getting now, especially on the first image.

Just keep practicing. You are doing great. Continue to work on your motion too. The first image is what they all should look like. Also, if your welder permits, don't pull the gun away when you finish, most welders have a time delay on the gas flow to allow the weld puddle to cool with the protection of the gas shield.

Like anything, practice, practice, practice.


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## lis2323 (Sep 17, 2020)

Papa Charlie said:


> Also, if your welder permits, don't pull the gun away when you finish, most welders have a time delay on the gas flow to allow the weld puddle to cool with the protection of the gas shield.
> 
> .



^^^THIS. And agreed. Looking much better.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 17, 2020)

Papa Charlie said:


> Now that looks much better. You can see the penetration that you are getting now, especially on the first image.
> 
> Just keep practicing. You are doing great. Continue to work on your motion too. The first image is what they all should look like. Also, if your welder permits, don't pull the gun away when you finish, most welders have a time delay on the gas flow to allow the weld puddle to cool with the protection of the gas shield.
> 
> Like anything, practice, practice, practice.





lis2323 said:


> ^^^THIS. And agreed. Looking much better.


Thanks gents! I cannot tell you how satisfying it is to be able to lay down a reasonable bead...well you probably already know 
I'm guessing that crater at the end of the first weld is from withdrawing the gun to quickly?


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## pontiac428 (Sep 17, 2020)

WobblyHand said:


> Oh yeah, if you are welding or cutting, keep a fire extinguisher (or two!) handy.



Wobbly, is that two gallon cans of white gas on the shelf within arm's reach of your welding table?  One thing I've learned about life is that **** happens, even when the chance seems remote.


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## Papa Charlie (Sep 17, 2020)

Aukai said:


> This is a mag base light I can move around...Quasar bright



May I ask where you got that light. It has good lighting and I like the mag base.


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## lis2323 (Sep 17, 2020)

Papa Charlie said:


> May I ask where you got that light. It has good lighting and I like the mag base.



YES. I like that!


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## rwm (Sep 17, 2020)

pontiac428 said:


> Wobbly, is that two gallon cans of white gas on the shelf within arm's reach of your welding table?  One thing I've learned about life is that **** happens, even when the chance seems remote.


This is always an issue with TIG and Acetone.
R


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## Aukai (Sep 17, 2020)

WoodTurnersWonders has several lights, mine is on the pricey side...This was a site Mikey suggested








						Lamps – Wood Turners Wonders
					

Our lamps are heavy duty, high quality LED bright, energy efficient lighting. They provide illumination for up to 50,000 hours. Switchable magnetic bases make make our LED lighting ideal for a wide range of industrial applications, including machine lighting, enclosure illumination and closeup...




					woodturnerswonders.com


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## WobblyHand (Sep 17, 2020)

pontiac428 said:


> Wobbly, is that two gallon cans of white gas on the shelf within arm's reach of your welding table?  One thing I've learned about life is that **** happens, even when the chance seems remote.


Yeah, it is.  Got to get those cans out of there.  Thanks for the reminder!  One tends to forget to look around and scan for danger in a familiar place.  _I'll take care of that today._  I also have a pile of crap on the back of the welding bench.  Got to get that out of there too. The back actually is a cutting area.  (Vertical slats with a drop down area.)  I have a piece of sheet metal over it.  You can see what happens to a clear surface in this garage.  It's a constant battle over the clutter.  Thanks for looking out for me @pontiac428 !


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## pontiac428 (Sep 17, 2020)

I'm watching out for you!  Actually, I had a vapor explosion and was engulfed in flame in my garage/basement back on June 23rd.  The fire department saved my house, but I lost my fun car.  Still haven't calmed down enough about it to start a thread here, still having some PTSD issues, I guess.  That's what I mean about **** happens.  I look at fire safety much differently now.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 17, 2020)

pontiac428 said:


> I'm watching out for you!  Actually, I had a vapor explosion and was engulfed in flame in my garage/basement back on June 23rd.  The fire department saved my house, but I lost my fun car.  Still haven't calmed down enough about it to start a thread here, still having some PTSD issues, I guess.  That's what I mean about **** happens.  I look at fire safety much differently now.


Oh my.
I'm so glad you are OK....
Thank you for bringing safety to forefront John.


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## WobblyHand (Sep 17, 2020)

pontiac428 said:


> I'm watching out for you!  Actually, I had a vapor explosion and was engulfed in flame in my garage/basement back on June 23rd.  The fire department saved my house, but I lost my fun car.  Still haven't calmed down enough about it to start a thread here, still having some PTSD issues, I guess.  That's what I mean about **** happens.  I look at fire safety much differently now.


I'm terribly sorry you had to experience that.  And very sorry to stir up those horrible memories.  I'm most grateful that you noticed and cared enough to point out this safety hazard in my garage.  I've removed those white gas cans from the garage and put them in an outdoor shed. People get cavalier about safety, but it only takes just a moment for things to go from normal to disaster.  Thank you so much for pointing out my garage lapse.  I hope that others will take the time to do a garage and shop walk though and fix up any potential safety issues.  For the rest of us, here on HM, and elsewhere - the time for a safety audit is before disaster.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 19, 2020)

Here’s a trial fitting of my bandsaw stand 
Need to add hold down brackets, casters and chip tray. 







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## ACHiPo (Sep 19, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Here’s a trial fitting of my bandsaw stand
> Need to add hold down brackets, casters and chip tray.
> 
> 
> ...


I like that.  Was just talking to some guys today that my Horror Freight saw cuts ok, but the stand is awful.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 19, 2020)

ACHiPo said:


> I like that. Was just talking to some guys today that my Horror Freight saw cuts ok, but the stand is awful.


Thanks!
The stamped steel stands are atrocious. 
Mine would teeter from side to side no matter how slowly I moved it. 
It was also too low for me to use my Ridgid support stand for long stock. 
It had to go!


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## Papa Charlie (Sep 19, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Here’s a trial fitting of my bandsaw stand
> Need to add hold down brackets, casters and chip tray.
> 
> 
> ...



Nice job. You are getting  better at  your  welding. Don't  be  afraid to take your  welds to the edge. Also slow the feed and carry the arch up onto the vertical. When you weld a verticle to a horizontal,  carry rge extremes  onto the surfaces but dwell in the joint to get the penetration and fill the groove.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 19, 2020)

Papa Charlie said:


> Nice job. You are getting better at your welding. Don't be afraid to take your welds to the edge. Also slow the feed and carry the arch up onto the vertical. When you weld a verticle to a horizontal, carry rge extremes onto the surfaces but dwell in the joint to get the penetration and fill the groove.



Thanks! Your advice was pivotal!
I should have gone down a bit on the feed rate as I was blowing through at the edges. Hence my fear of edges 


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## erikmannie (Sep 19, 2020)

I push when I MIG. My puddle manipulation is circles as wide as I can make them while still getting back the the weld root before the MIG wire solidifies.

They say “If there is slag, then you drag”. So for any SMAW or FCAW, you must pull. GMAW is not considered to have slag, so you are a-okay to push.

The circle pattern pays great dividends with regard to tie in at the toes of the weld. Make those circles all the same diameter and you will have beautiful beads.

If you attempt to make too wide of a circle, when you get back to the root you will have to remelt that part of the puddle. That is a no no for strength.

I use the Miller App for MIG settings. It is free and very simple to use.


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## General Zod (Sep 20, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> It has a 1/1/1/2 clarity rating which is the same as the high end Esabs, Lincoln’s, and Optrels.



I would venture to say that is not accurate.  Here is why I feel this way....

At the moment there are only three ratings in the 4 categories for welding helmets. 1,2,3.  Obviously 1 being the best.  The problem is that with this rating system, it does not allow for "expansion" for the rating system the way it is currently configured.  Sure getting "down" to that "1" rating surely helps, but once that rating is met, there is no way to "tell" if there is something better, other than trying it.

Think of it like this paralleled system:

Pretend all street-legal passenger motor vehicles are rated in a category for top-speed.
3= vehicle can safely obtain 100mph top speed
2= vehicle can safely obtain 120mph top speed.
1=vehicle can safely obtain 130mph top speed.

In this hypothetical scheme, 2 is better than 3, and 1 is better than 2. (remember this is hypothetical considering only this one category, for simplicity and to get my point across)

The problem is #1.  By whatever criteria the governing body has chosen to implement, a vehicle could potentially "just barely" make the cut for #1 to get that rating. Think of it being the "1" rating for welding helmets.  So _any _vehicle that can safely obtain a top-speed of 130mph would receive that _same _1 rating.  So what does than mean for say a vehicle than safely obtain 150mph?  180mph?  200mph? 220mph?   By the rating system currently in place, a high-speed Ferrari, Lamborghini,Bugatti would all get a #1, just the same as a vehicle that can just barely make the cut (say a modern $50K sports car than most anyone can go out and buy from a regular dealership).

But clearly those hypercars are much superior machines for top-speed (the hypothetical category that is being rated).  Yet by the rating system the $50k sports car might be (and IMO _is_) incorrectly assumed to be 'just as good' as the hypercars that scored the same in that same category. Why? well it too scored a 1 didn't it? So my $50k sports car is just as good as a $300k Lamborghini Aventador. Awesome I'll save $250k and get _the same_ top-speed performance. 

If you an follow my logic, then you can see why it is my opinion that the rating system is flawed in the sense that ultra-high performance helmets might be incorrectly rated the same as other lesser helmets that, while still great, just barely made the cut, and the ultra-high performance helmets are well ahead of the game, but are not rated as such because such a rating perhaps doesn't exist.

Just something to think about.


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## General Zod (Sep 20, 2020)

rwm said:


> I am dying to try this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You will not regret it.  Light years ahead of most anything out there commercially available.  Don't even think about it.  It _is _worth it.


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## lis2323 (Sep 20, 2020)

Anyone here done price research for the Optrel 2.0 in (or shipped to) Canada?


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## DavidR8 (Sep 20, 2020)

General Zod said:


> I would venture to say that is not accurate.  Here is why I feel this way....
> 
> At the moment there are only three ratings in the 4 categories for welding helmets. 1,2,3.  Obviously 1 being the best.  The problem is that with this rating system, it does not allow for "expansion" for the rating system the way it is currently configured.  Sure getting "down" to that "1" rating surely helps, but once that rating is met, there is no way to "tell" if there is something better, other than trying it.
> 
> ...


I see your point and agree. I also want to suggest that a 1/1/1/1 or 1/1/1/2 rated helmet is surely going to be better than a circa 2000 helmet without any rating. In the absence of a truly objective and sufficiently granular measurement I don't see (no pun intended) how can a consumer evaluate helmets.

The other challenge for me is that while an Optrel is the cream of the crop, for me it's a $700 helmet. As a hobbyist, I can't justify that expense. 
I know the usual argument is "How much are your eyes worth?.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 20, 2020)

lis2323 said:


> Anyone here done price research for the Optrel 2.0 in (or shipped to) Canada?


Funny you should mention that...








						Optrel Crystal 2.0
					

The new Optrel Crystal 2.0 welding helmet 1006.900 is available from Canada Welding Supply. Free shipping across Canada




					canadaweldingsupply.ca


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## lis2323 (Sep 20, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Funny you should mention that...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



eBay is $566 Cdn plus shipping. Need to pay taxes on top of that when it crosses border. 

$566 eBay 
$30 shipping Express Air or similar

12% sales tax to Border Services when you clear it at airport. 

above in Cdn funds

About $670 Cdn —eBay


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## lis2323 (Sep 20, 2020)

I was too lazy to fill out all the crap with Canada Weld to get the shipping price.

Which is kind of annoying as obviously they set their “Sale” price to match US purchases landed in Canada.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 20, 2020)

lis2323 said:


> eBay is $566 Cdn plus shipping. Need to pay taxes on top of that when it crosses border.
> 
> $566 eBay
> $30 shipping Express Air or similar
> ...


Looks like it works out to be within pennies.


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## lis2323 (Sep 20, 2020)

In which case Canada Weld would be the choice between the two.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 20, 2020)

lis2323 said:


> In which case Canada Weld would be the choice between the two.


Yup, if I was prepared to drop $650 on a helmet...
I totally get what Oscar is saying. And I wish I had that kind of cash to spend on it.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 20, 2020)

Got the chip tray brackets made and installed. 







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## Papa Charlie (Sep 20, 2020)

I haven't  bought a helmet in 15 plus years. You don't need a  $700 helmet to do machine type welds by hand. What do you think welders did before automatic helmets. My last helmet I paid about $100 and it worked just fine. If you have that kind of expendable  cash or if you make your livelihood welding then by all means. 
But you don't need  one  be  proficient at  welding.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 20, 2020)

Papa Charlie said:


> I haven't bought a helmet in 15 plus years. You don't need a $700 helmet to do machine type welds by hand. What do you think welders did before automatic helmets. My last helmet I paid about $100 and it worked just fine. If you have that kind of expendable cash or if you make your livelihood welding then by all means.
> But you don't need one be proficient at welding.



There’s no $700 helmet in my future. 
At most I’m going to get the Esab Savage A40. 
The batteries are giving out in my AD unit and they aren’t replaceable. 
I got flashed yesterday twice so that’s twice too many times. 


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## Papa Charlie (Sep 20, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> There’s no $700 helmet in my future.
> At most I’m going to get the Esab Savage A40.
> The batteries are giving out in my AD unit and they aren’t replaceable.
> I got flashed yesterday twice so that’s twice too many times.
> ...



I wasn't  referring to  your  posts just in general.


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## rwm (Sep 20, 2020)

That helmet ($429) is less than the Fusion 360 one year subscription! 
Robert


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## lis2323 (Sep 20, 2020)

Re: expensive lids. 

A case could be made one could get by with a less expensive house and (or) car also. 

Makes a $500 helmet pale by comparison.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 21, 2020)

Chip tray in place, saw is bolted down. 
Very sturdy and a much better height. 






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## lis2323 (Sep 21, 2020)

Nice job on the tray and stand. Here’s some of my clamping pics for you to ponder


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## DavidR8 (Sep 21, 2020)

lis2323 said:


> Nice job on the tray and stand. Here’s some of my clamping pics for you to ponder



Thanks!
Those are very clever, especially the half pipes with handles. 


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## sycle1 (Sep 21, 2020)

Great clamping inventions.


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## lis2323 (Sep 21, 2020)

sycle1 said:


> Great clamping inventions.



Credit for the “half pipe” clamp design goes to BD1 (Bob) over on Welding Web


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## AGCB97 (Sep 21, 2020)

lis2323 said:


> Nice job on the tray and stand. Here’s some of my clamping pics for you to ponder



Not sure what I'm seeing on the picture of the half pipe usage or the miter device. Could you give some additional pics or explanation please?
Thanks
Aaron


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## lis2323 (Sep 21, 2020)

@Aaron. The half pipe is used when the workpiece is too short for the vise jaws of the saw to fully engage. This eliminates the need to find a short length of identical thickness material to enable the vise to tighten parallel. 

The jig * for mitering is a quick setup for a predetermined angle without having to reset the vise to square. 

I made one for 45° as that was the most common angle cut I made. I have since purchased a beat up Ellis which I refurbished. Having a miter head is a nice upgrade. 








*Credit for the the miter jig design goes to BuckitCase (Steve) on GJ and TBN.


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## Aukai (Sep 21, 2020)

Will the half rounds secure short round pipe as well?


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## lis2323 (Sep 21, 2020)

Aukai said:


> Will the half rounds secure short round pipe as well?



While you’re on the subject of bandsaws here are some random clamping pics from my saws. 

Should but not as well due to less surface contact. I will try later.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 21, 2020)

I suggest that there's probably a practical thickness limit to using the half-round pipes without adding in a spacer under the non-stock side to keep adequate pressure on the stock. 
(I hope that makes sense...)


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## lis2323 (Sep 21, 2020)

Thinking about it, I would say NO. Not worth risking ruining a blade.


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## General Zod (Sep 22, 2020)

Superb ideas for clamping!  I will without a doubt be copying them.


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