# [RANT] Absurd prices (and even more absurd culture)



## Marco Bernardini (Jun 17, 2014)

While browsing the online catalog of our equivalent of Home Depot (but smaller) I found this lathe for the absurd price of 739 euro (~ $1000) without any accessory:
http://www.bricoio.it/it-IT-it/Torni-Einhell-Tornio-Per-Metallo_EHKOP001.aspx
Another similar shop has the same lathe for ~ 900 euro (~ $1200).
Tech specs are here: http://www.einhell.de/de_en/shop/metal-lathe-bt-ml-300.html
This gives you an idea of the planet where I live… to be a DIY farmer or a DIY fisherman is socially acceptable, a DIY woodworker begin to be uncommon, while if you are a DIY metalworker you are considered "strange": "respectable" people don't make this, how could be fun something made in a dirty factory by coarse workers? :angry:
BTW, here there is even people hiring a joiner to assemble Ikea furniture! :nuts:
Soon or later I'll write an aggressive sociological/philosophical book about this!


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## Don B (Jun 17, 2014)

That "absurd culture" thing you speak of might me the world over, I've encountered quit a few people over the last several years, that can't seem to make head nor tail of actually wanting to be in my shop making things (doing work) for relaxation, when in there view I could be doing something much more socially acceptable like watching a reality shows:nuts:


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## sinebar (Jun 17, 2014)

Don B said:


> "... I could be doing something much more socially acceptable like watching a reality shows:nuts:"



What's wrong with reality TV shows?

I watch them all the time. My favorites are "Keith Fenner" and "Tubalcain".


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## Ray C (Jun 17, 2014)

Marco Bernardini said:


> While browsing the online catalog of our equivalent of Home Depot (but smaller) I found this lathe for the absurd price of 739 euro (~ $1000) without any accessory:
> http://www.bricoio.it/it-IT-it/Torni-Einhell-Tornio-Per-Metallo_EHKOP001.aspx
> Another similar shop has the same lathe for ~ 900 euro (~ $1200).
> Tech specs are here: http://www.einhell.de/de_en/shop/metal-lathe-bt-ml-300.html
> ...



Marco...

A lot of us share your frustration...  Many, many people have forgotten what it's like to be a person.  I actually know some folks whom I'm convinced are human but, not really people and aren't grounded in reality anymore.

Be careful about writing an aggressive social/philosophical book that is direct and to the point as, the subjects of it's criticism will interpret it as a manifesto plotting against them.  If you do write such a book, proactively counter the arguments that you're a troglodyte and they are the next step in evolution.  FWIW, I'd frame it in "truthful satire" and deliver the backhanded slap of a lifetime.

I've been working on a similar topic for a while regarding my true feelings about manipulative marketing and the greed that drives it.  I don't intend to make it public...


Ray


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## churchjw (Jun 17, 2014)

I had an example of this just this morning.  Bunch of us walked down to get coffee from the office.  One of the elevators is out and when we get to the bottom floor the service guy is there with the doors open where you could see all of the workings.  I stop and talk to him.  We talked for 45 min easy. (He said half joking he was trying to make this job go all day and I was happy to help him meet his goal) I ended up buying him a coffee and he gave me a box of bearings.    When I got back to the office one guy asked where I had gone.  When I told him I got this blank look.  I said "Aren't you even curious how an elevator runs and works."  He says "No why should I be."    I say "You ride in it several times a day trusting your life to it!" and his response " It could be winged unicorns for all I know and that's fine with me."   I just don't understand that kind of thinking.

Jeff


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## chips&more (Jun 17, 2014)

To be a blue collar worker and get your hands a little dirty to make an honest dollar is maybe not the shining star job that once fueled this world. Today it’s greed and getting that $ the easiest way possible, even stealing it…like high frequency trading!


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## Don B (Jun 17, 2014)

churchjw said:


> I had an example of this just this morning.  Bunch of us walked down to get coffee from the office.  One of the elevators is out and when we get to the bottom floor the service guy is there with the doors open where you could see all of the workings.  I stop and talk to him.  We talked for 45 min easy. (He said half joking he was trying to make this job go all day and I was happy to help him meet his goal) I ended up buying him a coffee and he gave me a box of bearings.    When I got back to the office one guy asked where I had gone.  When I told him I got this blank look.  I said "Aren't you even curious how an elevator runs and works."  He says "No why should I be."    I say "You ride in it several times a day trusting your life to it!" and his response " It could be winged unicorns for all I know and that's fine with me."   I just don't understand that kind of thinking.
> 
> Jeff



That's funny, LOL, that's me to, if a bunch of people are looking at something it's usually all the shiny bits and pieces and I'll be on the back side or underneath trying to see how it works..!)


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## dave2176 (Jun 17, 2014)

It is a pretty blue though.

One of the things I have found is if we can get em while they are young and let them learn how fun making can be, you may have them hooked for life. Working with cub scouts is one way. We turned the geology pin into a study of minerals and ore leading into metallurgy rather rock polishing for instance. We have one boy who tries to turn everything into a weapon so we have had to lay off the craftsman pin until he graduates in August then out to the shop with the boys every Wednesday to make to stuff with power tools.

Dave


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## nobog (Jun 17, 2014)

most of the "ME's" (mechanical engineers) at work don't know what a 1/4-20 is :thinking:


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## Marco Bernardini (Jun 17, 2014)

nobog said:


> most of the "ME's" (mechanical engineers) at work don't know what a 1/4-20 is :thinking:



Darn… I know what it is even if I'm metric!


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## mgalusha (Jun 17, 2014)

nobog said:


> most of the "ME's" (mechanical engineers) at work don't know what a 1/4-20 is :thinking:



That disturbs me. Ugh.


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## hvontres (Jun 17, 2014)

nobog said:


> most of the "ME's" (mechanical engineers) at work don't know what a 1/4-20 is :thinking:



How bout a M6 x1.0 ???


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## Cobra (Jun 17, 2014)

The unfortunate thing is that a lot of those people might actually be interested if they had been given a chance to learn the little bit that let's them in the door.  I see it all the time a car shows where you have the folks that hang back and don't engage with the exhibitors. If you go out to them, a they really are interested, just have no idea how to connect. 
Just another view. 
Jim


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## David S (Jun 17, 2014)

hvontres said:


> How bout a M6 x1.0 ???




Nope.  6.35 x .79  :whistle:

David


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## nobog (Jun 17, 2014)

Sorry off subject from original post...

I had a chance to interview my new boss - and asked him exactly that - what's a 1/4-20?  He didn't know.  This was right after he showed me pages upon pages of enineering prints and assemblies he supposidly designed - right. They hired him (against my recommendation) - then fired him 6 weeks later.

All I can say is somehow these people got advanced degrees but know virtually nothing mechanical.  For a laugh all I have to do is to go down to the shop and look at "the print of the day" - it never ends - the goofy dimensions and stupid designs.

On my desk I keep a print that some engineer (designed in 3D) had a part quoted - $50, then I went and looked it up in McMaster-Carr - 50 cents for a shoulder bolt....

The best thing that ever happened to the mechanical engineering world - 3D design
The worst thing that ever happened to the mechanical engineering world - 3D design

Jim


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## Don B (Jun 17, 2014)

Cobra said:


> The unfortunate thing is that a lot of those people might actually be interested if they had been given a chance to learn the little bit that let's them in the door.  I see it all the time a car shows where you have the folks that hang back and don't engage with the exhibitors. If you go out to them, a they really are interested, just have no idea how to connect.
> Just another view.
> Jim



Very true, I see it as well with RC flying, people that want to ask but for whatever reason don't, but one thing I've see that really bothers me, though it's rare, is people being rude because there asked what they think is a silly questions(i.e. how far can you fly away form yourself or how long does a tank of fuel last) but nothing is a silly question if you have no knowledge of it, that's why I really like this forum, the whole concept of a friendly forum is great, and it's great to see people can ask whatever the need to without being humiliated and belittled, with some of the answers and comments I've see on other forums it makes me wonder how many people have gotten frustrated and packed it in because of being verbally abused for asking a simple question:thinking:


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## David S (Jun 17, 2014)

Don B said:


> Very true, I see it as well with RC flying, people that want to ask but for whatever reason don't, but one thing I've see that really bothers me, though it's rare, is people being rude because there asked what they think is a silly questions(i.e. how far can you fly away form yourself or how long does a tank of fuel last) but nothing is a silly question if you have no knowledge of it, that's why I really like this forum, the whole concept of a friendly forum is great, and it's great to see people can ask whatever the need to without being humiliated and belittled, with some of the answers and comments I've see on other forums it makes me wonder how many people have gotten frustrated and packed it in because of being verbally abused for asking a simple question:thinking:



Amen Don.  But we must remember  "thats why I really like this forum..."  is because you, I and all the rest of our colleges subscribe to the mission and values of the Hobby-Machinist.

David


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## Marco Bernardini (Jun 17, 2014)

Heraclitus, the Greek philosopher born in 535 B.C. (the age when almost all the fundamentals of contemporary geometry and physics were discovered) mainly famous for his "everything flows" (*), had more or less the same problem with the people of his times.
He divided the mankind in "wise" and "sleepers", and wrote «_For what sense or understanding have they? They follow minstrels and take the multitude for a teacher, not knowing that many are bad and few good. For the best men choose one thing above all – immortal glory among mortals; but the masses stuff themselves like cattle._» (Got from Wikiquote)
Because points of view like this, Heraclitus was considered an "elitist", but guess by who? 
His problem, IMHO, was he just made an ascertainment,  without to try to extract from the "cattle" people who has the potential to become wiser.

(*) We can call him "Father of the Coolant".


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## chips&more (Jun 17, 2014)

nobog said:


> most of the "ME's" (mechanical engineers) at work don't know what a 1/4-20 is :thinking:




I’ll bet you if you asked them when there next pay check was coming, they would know!


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