# Fish or Cut Bait-Move or settle?



## Janderso (Oct 6, 2021)

My wife and I have tried to convince ourselves that we are ok with our home and property.
Why do we keep looking at Zillow properties almost daily?
After the fire we bid on 4 properties until we finally bought this home.
The garage is my shop. No place for my wife's car or our stuff.
The property is small. There is a pool which is nice.

I spoke to a money guy  yesterday and our financial guy.

We can do this. 
It's exciting and scary at the same time.
I retire in a few months, go on SS and Medicare.
We made a mistake. Apartment living forced us to buy in a hurry.

We take our time and find the right property. Our realtor said the feeding frenzy isn't so bad at our budget level. That's a good thing.

The hunt begins.


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## woodchucker (Oct 6, 2021)

I'm confused... I thought you just bought?
are you saying what you bought is wrong for you? And you are looking again????


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## tjb (Oct 6, 2021)

Go East, young man, go east.


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## Janderso (Oct 6, 2021)

woodchucker said:


> I'm confused... I thought you just bought?
> are you saying what you bought is wrong for you? And you are looking again????


We bought a home in March of 2019. We were burned out in November of 2018.
We gave it a good bit of time to try out suburban living.
Our Paradise property was like living in a park. All the lots were an acre or more.
35 years of that life kind of makes you spoiled.
Yes, we are looking for the last time, I hope.
Now is not a good time but I have a hunch the next six months we'll see a change in the markets.


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## Janderso (Oct 6, 2021)

tjb said:


> Go East, young man, go east.


I'd love to get out of California/ My wife on the other hand wouldn't leave without a fight.
Our family is here, her friends are here.
I don't have any friends so it's easy.


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## FOMOGO (Oct 6, 2021)

Or at least further east. Property and taxes are so much lower. Mike


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## tjb (Oct 6, 2021)

Janderso said:


> I don't have any friends so it's easy.


Nah, I disagree.  Been seeing your posts for a long time.  You have friends everywhere.


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## Janderso (Oct 6, 2021)

tjb said:


> Nah, I disagree.  Been seeing your posts for a long time.  You have friends everywhere.


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## Janderso (Oct 6, 2021)

FOMOGO said:


> Or at least further east. Property and taxes are so much lower. Mike


Someone told me the property taxes in New York and maybe Mass. were in the 8% range?
Yeah I agree, many states have much more favorable taxes, fees, DMV etc.


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## rabler (Oct 6, 2021)

Moving is a hassle.  But having the right place, or something you can develop into the right place, is really nice.  As you retire is the perfect time to find that right place.   As I've told my wife several times, we finally hit the right spot for us.

You're in a good position.  You don't have to move until you find something that is right for both of you.  Good luck in your search.


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## MikeInOr (Oct 6, 2021)

I can't imagine retiring and not having a shop to work in.  Tell your wife that you will be constantly under-foot and in the way if you don't have a shop!

When I bought my place I bought a shop with a house and some other crap in front of it!


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## Shootymacshootface (Oct 6, 2021)

What rabler said.
If you know it's not the right spot, you might as well get moving. The older I get, the less I want to take on another big project.


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## Janderso (Oct 6, 2021)

MikeInOr said:


> I can't imagine retiring and not having a shop to work in.  Tell your wife that you will be constantly under-foot and in the way if you don't have a shop!
> 
> When I bought my place I bought a shop with a house and some other crap in front of it!


Oh I hear you.
My shop is perfect for me. Yes, it's a bit small but I can do most everything I can dream up.
It's really hard not having space for, luggage, Xmas stuff, gardening stuff,. You get the idea.
Plus, this is the first time my wife hasn't been able to push a button and drive into her garage. She is really roughing it.

If you saw Oxtools latest video where he shows his new shop and the nice piece of property.
You can see how excited he is.

Moving is a ton of work, but moving home makes it all worth it.

We all know how much work we add on to the moving process with our machinist contraband.!!


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## Aukai (Oct 6, 2021)

How far is the nearest open country without a forest?


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## Nutfarmer (Oct 6, 2021)

If you find a place out of California let me know. You may have company. If you still have the lot in Paradise have you thought about rebuilding ?  If you leave the area ,you will be missed. Life is short . Be happy


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## Janderso (Oct 6, 2021)

Nutfarmer said:


> If you find a place out of California let me know. You may have company. If you still have the lot in Paradise have you thought about rebuilding ?  If you leave the area ,you will be missed. Life is short . Be happy


Steve,
We sold the property. To be honest, every time we go up there it's just depressing.
We sold because we didn't want to fight that battle. We couldn't really move on until we made that decision.


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## wachuko (Oct 6, 2021)

Wish you the best of luck in finding your new place.

We did something similar last year.  We bought, what I think, will be our retirement house... We will move there in about 5 years... This will give me time to build a small workshop and get all my carp in there.

It will also be the first time since we married, that my wife will be able to park her car inside the garage... In five years, because right now I already filled the garage with my carp 

Right now we are only going there on the weekends and the wife just loves the peace and quiet... me? I am always out doing the lawn, or working on taking off something from the honey-do list.  In between breaks, I get to work on some of my pending projects that we moved to the new house...

Keep us posted!!!


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## benmychree (Oct 6, 2021)

Janderso said:


> I'd love to get out of California/ My wife on the other hand wouldn't leave without a fight.
> Our family is here, her friends are here.
> I don't have any friends so it's easy.


Don't have any friends? I could feel offended!


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## Nutfarmer (Oct 6, 2021)

benmychree said:


> Don't have any friends? I could feel offended!


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## tjb (Oct 6, 2021)

benmychree said:


> Don't have any friends? I could feel offended!


See?  I told ya!


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## Aaron_W (Oct 6, 2021)

I think real estate in Norcal is just going to get worse anywhere near civilization because of the fires. Since 2015 there has been a major fire displacing thousands of rural residents almost every year in Lake County, Mendocino County, Napa County, Sonoma County, Lake County (again), Shasta County, Butte County (Paradise), Plumas County and Lassen County pushing more and more people into the central valley north of Sacramento.

Once you retire you will have a bit more freedom since you won't have a daily commute, and you might be able to flip your current house into something with a little more space but further from town. Something else to consider though is as you get older being close to services may be more desirable than they are now, doctors, grocery stores etc.



benmychree said:


> Don't have any friends? I could feel offended!



I know, right?


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## projectnut (Oct 7, 2021)

You and your wife have to sit down together and put together a few lists.  The first would be a "Wish List" of the things you'd Like to have and the second would be a bit more practical "What can we afford" list.  Once those lists are reconciled you have to work through the the "Practicality" of the final list. 

While it would be nice to have a large house and extensive property consider how they will be maintained, and who will be doing it.  At your current age I would expect you and your wife would be doing the majority of the maintenance and improvements.  Look down the road a few years to see if hiring that work would be affordable and practical.  Things that are more than doable at 65 become more of a chore at 70 and less than appealing at 75.

In our younger years we were maintaining our house and property along with that of 3 older relatives.  It took a lot of time and effort, but was certainly manageable.  As  usual our house was lowest on the list.  I had to add side lights on the tractor mower to see where I was cutting since it was usually done between 10:00 PM and 11:00 PM. 

More recently a number of the trees planted 40+ years ago had to come down.  I did the first 25 or so, but don't have the time, interest, or physical stamina to want to consider taking down any more.  So far this year we're having another half dozen taken down and it isn't cheap.  I would bet before we're done the cost will be upwards of $5,000.00.

As mentioned earlier health and proximity to services should also be part of the equation.  While living in a secluded area might sound appealing it also comes with a price.  Should the need arise medical and ambulance service should be with a reasonable distance and response times should be in minutes, not hours.  Do you want to drive 2 hours or more for a dental appointment, a physical, or to see an Optometrist?  These are just some of the things that must be considered when looking for that retirement home.

I'm not trying to discourage you in any way.  It's just better to consider these things before you make the leap.  We went through the same scenario several years ago.  I grew up out in the country and have always longed to move to a rural setting.  My wife on the other hand is a city girl and wasn't quite so keen on it for many years.  

Another thing to consider is whether changes or improvements to your current property affordable or practical


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## kb58 (Oct 7, 2021)

It all depends upon your financial situation... and mindset.

To me, where you live is a bit like marriage. There are going to be things you like, things that bug you, and things you can't stand, but you also know that if you marry someone else, while it will be different, there are always going to be some issues.

If the cost of living is the only thing driving you toward moving, it implies that you can't stay where you are for money reasons. You, your wife, and financial guy need to run the numbers, because moving is expensive, and while you may get more for your money outside California, that doesn't mean that you'll automatically spend less (read: sell a 1/2-acre home for $500K, then buy a 10-acre place for the same amount). Once there, there may or may not be significant renovation necessary. Don't forget heating cost, which may be a lot more than California. Also, don't automatically assume that property tax will be less. At one time I considered buying land in WA state, and was shocked by how expensive property tax was/is. The only reason I was shocked was because I let myself fall into the trap of assuming that everywhere outside CA must be cheaper. Not so. (Also, I was shocked to to find that crime in rural WA was significantly higher than here in our SoCal suburb, and probably meth related.)

As an aside, a story:
I used to read survivalist forums to better understand the mindset. Almost without exception, everyone had nothing but bad things to say about California, and how everywhere else was surely better. So one Californian moved to Eastern Oregon. Problems solved, right? No more stupid rules and regulation, and as a freedom loving patriotic American, he could finally do what he wanted, right? Hah.

So he buys some land, builds a place, still thumbing his nose at California because he "showed them." His story started changing when he wanted to dam up the stream flowing through his property. The county said "no." Oh boy, you should have heard him, you'd think that he was right back in California again. He just couldn't understand why he didn't have the freedom to do that, as he owned the land and could do whatever he wanted. I asked him: "Okay, how would you feel if I bought the property upstream of you, and dammed off the stream, since it's my 'right'? " No answer.

Point being, think long and hard about what you're looking to gain, and ALL the potential costs. For example, my sister recently moved to a rural area, and is now pushing me to move to the same area. The catch is that the drought is such that no new building is allowed, and city water is $0.09 a gallon (wells are a no-go). So, yeah, there's a lot of variables to consider.

My brother badmouths CA all the time and says that Tennessee is the answer to all his problems. Okay.


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## Janderso (Oct 7, 2021)

benmychree said:


> Don't have any friends? I could feel offended!


Awe,


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## Janderso (Oct 7, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> I know, right?


Who loves you babe!!


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## Janderso (Oct 7, 2021)

Well thought out comments and suggestions, thank you.
Our plan is to look within our community outside the city limits.
A thorough building inspection should provide any issues that need to be addressed to the home, septic, electrical, well etc.
Our realtor and others are predicting the housing market will be going through a change by next spring. We've seen it before.
Being patient may give us an opportunity to find a house we can make into a comfortable home, a shop that will satisfy my needs (or enough land where I can easily build one) and most importantly to us right now is some breathing room for gardening, nature, a bit of open space.
An acre minimum, 2-3 would be better.
No, I'm not a big fan of yard work but we were able to get our Paradise property fairly maintenance free.
The home we are living in has a pool, it's well insulated, we just installed a 37 panel solar system, the kitchen was just remodeled by us, new roof, new HVAC, we put in a stream with a pump and new landscaping. 
Why move you idiot?
Just need some space.
It's calling to both of us.
Talking it through helps. I share your comments with Glenda.


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## rabler (Oct 7, 2021)

What we want as we grow older changes.  And varies considerably from person to person.

My wife and I like space.  We met and lived for years in downtown Atlanta.  Lived in a house with a 1/5 acre lot, although we bot grew up in rural settings.  We've remodeled and sold several places since then, and finally settled into a retirement place, 40 acres, and a LOT more shop square footage than house.  We're only 2 miles outside of the city limits of a town of 8000, with a super-Walmart, Menards, and hospital/ER.  45 minutes away from a good sized city (>200,000).

There were some major compromises along the way, but we're both happy.  Sounds like you're not a stranger to doing some work on a place.  If you're restless, I would say now is the time to do it, before aging makes it even harder.  And having that garage for the wife may be what she needs to age comfortably.  Keep all of that in mind.  Find what you want.

Edited to add: Guess I'm not saying anything different than earlier.


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## Hozzie (Oct 7, 2021)

kb58 said:


> My brother badmouths CA all the time and says that Tennessee is the answer to all his problems. Okay.



Tennessee if full, so even if you wanted to come I am afraid there is no more room.  It's a terrible place, you wouldn't want to be here, trust me


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## Aaron_W (Oct 7, 2021)

I don't know what kind of radius you can consider, but I-5 and west in Glenn and Tehama Counties seem to be cheaper with large lots than the east side of I-5. Much of Lake County is still within 2 hours of your current location and one of the least expensive areas in California, a bonus there would be some cool neighbors to your south and west.  

Another thought would be finding a place for a stand alone shop not too far away. I've been considering this after my wife suggested it. Keep the little home shop for ready access but have a place within 30 min to an hour from home where I can keep the bigger projects (get the project vehicles under a cover and out of the driveway) and also have space for larger machines over time. 

Nice to be able to just walk out to the shop, but moving is such a drag and that just isn't going to happen for me. We moved 5 times between 2000 and 2012, I had to promise my wife 2012 was our last move unless she wants to move. If I was able to make a 20x40 shop happen it would be worth driving 30-40 minutes when I needed the room for a bigger project than I can handle at home.



kb58 said:


> and while you may get more for your money outside California, that doesn't mean that you'll automatically spend less (read: sell a 1/2-acre home for $500K, then buy a 10-acre place for the same amount). Once there, there may or may not be significant renovation necessary. Don't forget heating cost, which may be a lot more than California. Also, don't automatically assume that property tax will be less. At one time I considered buying land in WA state, and was shocked by how expensive property tax was/is. The only reason I was shocked was because I let myself fall into the trap of assuming that everywhere outside CA must be cheaper. Not so. (Also, I was shocked to to find that crime in rural WA was significantly higher than here in our SoCal suburb, and probably meth related.)



With all the talk of high taxes in California I've been pleasantly surprised to find that isn't as true as often claimed. Many states have much higher property tax, and while California is not a low tax state it is fairly retirement friendly. The biggest drawback to retiring in California is real estate prices and if you are already a long term resident, then you are probably doing ok in that regard with a place to live that you can afford.


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## Janderso (Oct 7, 2021)

Hozzie said:


> Tennessee if full, so even if you wanted to come I am afraid there is no more room.  It's a terrible place, you wouldn't want to be here, trust me


Tennessee is a beautiful place.
Too many Californians already hugh?
I'm one of the good ones =no politics.
Oh, I'm a card carrying -Guns of America member.
I put the sticker on my truck. This way when we take our travel trailer across the country, people won't throw rocks when they see my California plates.
New York and Mass. aren't any different as I understand it.


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## kb58 (Oct 7, 2021)

Yet another factor, given that most of us here are of retirement age, is our health. Be careful wishing for a remote property in the hills, because the isolation works both ways. How long does it take to get to town? How long will you keep driving? How far away is the hospital. Also, there's the weather. As kids, we all love the snow, but how long will you be willing to shovel a long driveway during the winter. If you fall and break a bone, is there cell coverage (assuming you don't think 5G has infected your brain yet, but I digress). Just sayin', what we see as the perfect place to live when we're 30 may well be something different when we're 75.

(A perfect age-related example is buying a 2-story house when you're 30. How you feel about stairs when you're 80 is likely to change.)


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## Janderso (Oct 7, 2021)

kb58 said:


> How long does it take to get to town?


I must admit, being 7 minutes to Harbor Freight, hardware store and two markets is pretty cool.


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## Ischgl99 (Oct 7, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Someone told me the property taxes in New York and maybe Mass. were in the 8% range?
> Yeah I agree, many states have much more favorable taxes, fees, DMV etc.


NY is 2-4% of the appraised value and varies based on where in NY you live.  Here in CT it is similar, but we also have a personal property tax on anything that is registered (ie. cars, motorcycles, boats) at the same mil rate as house property taxes that caught us by surprise when we moved here.  We buy used cars now since it saves us several hundreds of dollars per year in property tax over buying new.


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## Janderso (Oct 7, 2021)

Ischgl99 said:


> NY is 2-4% of the appraised value and varies based on where in NY you live.  Here in CT it is similar, but we also have a personal property tax on anything that is registered (ie. cars, motorcycles, boats) at the same mil rate as house property taxes that caught us by surprise when we moved here.  We buy used cars now since it saves us several hundreds of dollars per year in property tax over buying new.


Whoa,
We have a 1%, I think.


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## matthewsx (Oct 7, 2021)

Janderso said:


> I must admit, being 7 minutes to Harbor Freight, hardware store and two markets is pretty cool.


I'm sure your wife would enjoy parking inside, but it's not like it snows in Chico. Being closer to everything is definitely worth some compromise and more property really just means more time taking care of things and not working in the shop.

When you start waxing nostalgic about your old property make sure to factor in all the stuff that wasn't great, plus do you want to face possibly getting burned out again.

Wish I had a bigger shop but I like my place in town....

John


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## Shootymacshootface (Oct 8, 2021)

Yup, Mass sucks, especially if you are a gun owner. As soon as I retire, I will be moving north to NH.


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## 7milesup (Oct 8, 2021)

Ya know Jeff, you got us all talking when you started the thread about retirement and how much money is enough.  Now you start this thread.  When will it end?!

May I suggest a book?  It is a simple one... Who Moved My Cheese by Dr. Spencer Johnson.  Took me two hours to read it (if that) but it makes you start to think about what one is afraid of.

We built in 2019 before the lumber skyrocketed.  Sold our house unexpectedly (didn't even have it on the market) so it was stressful.  We were in the process of buying some acreage anyhow and it did work out.  Ended up with a beautiful house and a 36x36 shop on 22 acres with 1300ft of frontage on a decent sized river.  One of my kids called me today and while standing in the living room two Bald Eagles literally flew past the deck and our panoramic windows.  Moments like that make me glad that I did it, but it was a lot of stress to be sure.
If it was just me, I would have built a larger shop with luxury living quarters in the back of it overlooking the hills and river, but it seems that the wife did not want to live in the shop.  I have given serious consideration to getting rid of the wife, but that is extremely expensive. 

As far as conveniences, I think I live in a place that just can't be beat.  4 minutes to the nearest grocery and gas.  15 minutes to the bigger grocery stores, restaurants and Menards.  Hospitals are 20 minutes away or so, but I discovered (highlighted in this thread) that the trauma center is only about 20 minutes away via helicopter (from the neighbors yard).
The one thing that is not so great here is the property taxes and the "backwoods" idiots, but even those aren't too bad (the taxes, LOL).


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## Janderso (Oct 8, 2021)

7milesup said:


> Ya know Jeff, you got us all talking when you started the thread about retirement and how much money is enough.  Now you start this thread.  When will it end?!
> 
> May I suggest a book?  It is a simple one... Who Moved My Cheese by Dr. Spencer Johnson.  Took me two hours to read it (if that) but it makes you start to think about what one is afraid of.
> 
> ...


Dang man,
You got it made.
Your place sounds amazing.
I’m moving in, next door.


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## 7milesup (Oct 8, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Dang man,
> You got it made.
> Your place sounds amazing.
> I’m moving in, next door.


Welllll..... There is 37 acres just South of me, all wooded, with 1500ft of frontage on the river.  He might sell for the right price   Would love to have you as a neighbor!


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## Ischgl99 (Oct 8, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Whoa,
> We have a 1%, I think.


Yeah, I’m REALLY glad they did the property revaluations before the prices skyrocketed this past year.


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