# My new shop away from home



## erikmannie (Apr 12, 2020)

I just bought a 1/4 acre lot in a city in Ohio where I go to welding school two months a year.

There was a house on the lot, but maybe a tornado took it away. The lot is clear now. The lot is in town in the suburbs.

I am thinking that I will build a 2 car garage so that I can have enough room to do welding & machining on the evenings & weekends because school is only 36 hours/week. I only have enough money to build a 2 car garage with power and a bathroom in the garage.

So hopefully the city will just let me build a 2 car garage with a bathroom in it on this bare lot.

I need at least two 220V outlets. One welder I have calls for a 100A breaker, so that is something to tell the architect.

I will be doing this with proper permits. I would like to have it ready to go in Spring 2021, but I think there might be an issue with having to pour the concrete foundation in the warmer months.


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## erikmannie (Apr 12, 2020)

I will only be there 2 months/year, so I will probably load up my van & haul some welders and equipment out there.

As for a lathe (because there must me a lathe!), I will get a heavy, old (unattractive to thieves) domestic lathe off of craigslist. I wonder if a HF lathe is good enough. I don’t want to leave anything valuable in a garage for 10 months/year.


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## benmychree (Apr 12, 2020)

I hope a tornado doesn't carry it all off ----


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## GL (Apr 12, 2020)

For a couple of months a year, can you live in a corner if the bathroom has a shower?  Also, if there’s water, can you drain it down enough that you don’t have to heat it in the winter?  10 months gone is a long time, hope the neighbors can watch for you.  I’m away from my shop a week or so at a time and it still bugs me I can’t keep an eye on things. And I’m only a half hour away - but great neighbors.


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## matthewsx (Apr 12, 2020)

Hi Erik,

So first,



			https://www.menards.com/main/storeDetails.html?store=3240
		


You will be getting familiar with Menards, they have everything you need for any kind of building or home project.

Their affiliated supplier has a building estimator on their website so you can get an idea of what you're in for cost wise. 



			https://www.midwestmanufacturing.com/MidwestWebsite/productLine.do?productTypeId=80
		


The costs are pretty much materials only but there are lots of folks around the midwest who can put up a pole building in a few days. If at all possible you will want to go with a pre-engineered package so you don't have to spend a lot of time going back and forth with architects. Also call the local hardware store and see if they supply pole building packages, ask if there is a builder who is known for doing them well. I know our local Gil-Roys store in Elk Rapids can do a package that's almost competitive with Menards.

You should call the local building department and speak with a planner about what you want to do, they are the only ones who can say if it's legit or not. Rural and semi-rural places in the midwest are usually pretty cool about pole barns but if you need to have a dwelling check to see if the local manufactured home dealer has any repo units you can get cheap. You may want to do this anyway so you have a place to sleep. 

As for keeping your stuff safe I would be tempted to get a 20' shipping container and possibly put that inside or right next to the garage, they lock up pretty tight and it shouldn't be hard to find someone with a front end loader to help with any heavy stuff. You also have a good idea with buying a lathe that's so old and heavy nobody would think of stealing it. There's lots of them in and around Ohio that you should be able to get cheap. 

Check with the power company and find out how much 3 phase is if you can get it too. I don't think there's a problem with pouring concrete in the summer but if you get going now you might be able to get it done over this coming winter. Lots of times pole barns are built with just a gravel floor and then concrete is added later.

Talk with the minister of the church across the street, you might be able to make a deal where they will keep an eye on your stuff in exchange for some winter storage....

That's all I've got now, let us know when you talk with the planning administrator and know what you can build.


John


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## C-Bag (Apr 12, 2020)

Wouldn't it be cheaper to join a maker space?


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## erikmannie (Apr 12, 2020)

benmychree said:


> I hope a tornado doesn't carry it all off ----



Reminds me to buy tornado insurance.


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## erikmannie (Apr 12, 2020)

C-Bag said:


> Wouldn't it be cheaper to join a maker space?



Maybe so, but I already bought the lot.


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## matthewsx (Apr 12, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> Maybe so, but I already bought the lot.



The only I found online when I looked was something they were trying to get going....

John


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## matthewsx (Apr 12, 2020)

Another thought that might be helpful.

When you talk with people don't tell them you only bought the place so you can be there for 2 months in the summer. Tell them you, and your wife, and maybe your youngest daughter and her baby, are thinking of moving there when you retire.

We're dealing with our village in Michigan putting a moratorium on weekly rentals because someone wants more "full time residents". I'll bet things will go a lot smoother if folks think they're about to get a retired UPS driver as a neighbor.

John


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## erikmannie (Apr 12, 2020)

GL said:


> For a couple of months a year, can you live in a corner if the bathroom has a shower?  Also, if there’s water, can you drain it down enough that you don’t have to heat it in the winter?  10 months gone is a long time, hope the neighbors can watch for you.  I’m away from my shop a week or so at a time and it still bugs me I can’t keep an eye on things. And I’m only a half hour away - but great neighbors.


There are neighbors all around (except in back). I will also have an alarm.

I am so desperate for a workspace that I am not even making provisions for sleeping. I could just sleep in the minivan inside the garage.

Even if I did have an extra room in the shop, I would make it a grinding room. I was much happier at my home shop after I moved the grinding outside the shop.


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## erikmannie (Apr 12, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> Another thought that might be helpful.
> 
> When you talk with people don't tell them you only bought the place so you can be there for 2 months in the summer. Tell them you, and your wife, and maybe your youngest daughter and her baby, are thinking of moving there when you retire.
> 
> ...



I will have money later to build a house on it.

We have way too many kids and grandkids here to ever move 2500 miles away. I will tell them that I am building a retirement house, however, and that should suffice.


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## erikmannie (Apr 12, 2020)

The real estate agent gave me a reference to a trusted contractor, but I would be inclined to start with the planning department & see if they will give me some names of architects that they have worked with.

My idea would be be have a local architect design a two car garage with a bathroom in it. Since I do need a shower, I will have the architect include a bedroom (and thus abandon the “garage only” claim), but I would still use that room for a grinding room because I have had my fill of dust in my shop.


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## erikmannie (Apr 12, 2020)

I am hoping to pay as I go, so I can try to pay the architect out of pocket. At some point, I would know how much I need to save up before breaking ground.

 I’m trying to keep the whole building expense under $20,000. We’ll see how that goes. The shop part will be 24’ X 24’. The bathroom and grinding room would be as small as possible.


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## erikmannie (Apr 12, 2020)

I noticed on craigslist that you can buy really large lathes (e.g. 16” swing and a long bed) for pretty cheap. I imagine that’s because people usually want more manageable lathes. I would not be able to afford a new lathe for this application, so it will be a large, used one.


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## erikmannie (Apr 12, 2020)

Someone told me about electric toilets, but I decided to go with a plumbed commode.


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## erikmannie (Apr 23, 2020)

I have made a lot of progress with this project. Escrow closed, so the bare lot is in hand.

The city & county require a primary structure to be built before any secondary structure, so the idea of building a detached garage with no home there is out the window.

Furthermore, the city and county require the primary structure to be at least 51% living area (i.e. max 49% garage). I made this floor plan which gets me a one car garage (my shop!) and just about the smallest living area that you have ever seen.

I will have to work a whopping 1400 overtime hours to pay for it.


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## erikmannie (Apr 23, 2020)

The city & county has no minimum square footage, but they require the living area to include a full bathroom, full kitchen, and a bedroom with a closet.


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## Superburban (Apr 24, 2020)

So make it a 3 bedroom house with an attached garage, on a cement slab. One bedroom for the grinders, one for painting, and one for living. And the garage for the big machines. Then when you are done with the school, carpet and paint the bedrooms, and it will be easier to sell.

Or keep the design flexible, with the plan to add a few rooms down the road. Which would help spread the costs over some time.


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## erikmannie (Apr 24, 2020)

Superburban said:


> So make it a 3 bedroom house with an attached garage, on a cement slab. One bedroom for the grinders, one for painting, and one for living. And the garage for the big machines. Then when you are done with the school, carpet and paint the bedrooms, and it will be easier to sell.
> 
> Or keep the design flexible, with the plan to add a few rooms down the road. Which would help spread the costs over some time.



The tiny house in the plan is the largest that I can afford. It will be near impossible for me to pay for even the 600 sq ft structure.

The problem of finding a place to stay for two months a year that enables me to have a workshop has been almost impossible to solve.

I took a 2 week class and stayed at an Airbnb with only books and a laptop, and it was unbearable. Those of us who need to work with our hands should always appreciate our workshops & machine tools.


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## Aaron_W (Apr 24, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> I noticed on craigslist that you can buy really large lathes (e.g. 16” swing and a long bed) for pretty cheap. I imagine that’s because people usually want more manageable lathes. I would not be able to afford a new lathe for this application, so it will be a large, used one.



Sometimes they want a (relatively) large amount for a relatively new lathe, but I've seen many large older lathes basically asking mini-lathe prices. I know of a 20x96" Monarch in decent condition that was sold for $1000 because the school didn't want to deal with tire kickers and they had an interested local who had the ability to safely move a 4 ton lathe. Added benefit to a big lathe, is it would be a lot harder to steal.



erikmannie said:


> The city & county require a primary structure to be built before any secondary structure, so the idea of building a detached garage with no home there is out the window.
> 
> Furthermore, the city and county require the primary structure to be at least 51% living area (i.e. max 49% garage). I made this floor plan which gets me a one car garage (my shop!) and just about the smallest living area that you have ever seen.
> 
> ...



One thought, have you considered building a small rental house, and then build your shop building next door? That could help offset the costs and if you got a reliable renter you would have a set of eyes to watch over your shop when you aren't there. A college student or a retired person might be interested in a small place with rent that factors in their having a neighbor 2 months of the year. As a rental you get some tax breaks you wouldn't get as a second home and might even get some special treatment if it was considered low income housing, although that can also come with some issues.


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## matthewsx (Apr 24, 2020)

Does the county/city allow manufactured homes on your lot, sometimes repo deals can be had for cheap. If not I'm liking the idea of building something kinda normal and using the rooms in an abnormal (machine shop) kinda way. Another thought is perhaps moving an existing house onto a new foundation.

I understand the desire to go all cash with this project, and the desire to NOT be a landlord but if you can build something that will cashflow as a rental it might make sense to finance it. We're not talking about a sunk cost asset like a van here, real estate purchased and developed correctly is still a good investment. Building something that only makes sense for your current situation may make it harder to sell later too.

Cheers,

John


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## erikmannie (May 13, 2020)

I decided today to throw in the towel on this project. The quote that I got for the dwelling in the drawing above was $57,000. By the time I had that money saved up and the house got built, I would be 30% of the way through school.

I had hoped that I could have just built a two car garage, but the county requires a primary structure to be built first.

The good news is that the real estate agent says that I will be able to get back what I spent on the bare lot, and then some.

The final nail in the coffin was that I would not be able to recover a large enough percentage of my investment when I sold the  used house. I don’t want to put myself into a position where I’m going to lose $20,000-$30,000.

I decided that I will live in my minivan when I’m out there, and then use the money that I would have spent on hotels to buy a 16X60 lathe.


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## erikmannie (Jul 23, 2020)

Well, COVID-19 sure blew up this plan. The Takeaway that I got from the pandemic is “Don’t go anywhere unless you absolutely need to”.

This bare lot is in escrow (now I’m the Seller), I am going to go to school locally, and I did buy the 16X60 lathe.

Were it not for the pandemic, things would have turned out very differently.


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