# California Fires-here we go again



## Janderso

As you know, my wife and I lost everything in the 2018, Camp Fire in Paradise Ca.
The local communities are once again evacuating, burning cars and homes are common place in the foothills.
My wife's friend lives in medford, they are included in the 83,000 people evacuating. Her daughter lost her home in Talent Or.
Many of our employees are not at work today as they had to evacuate their homes last night.
The sky is dark and smokey.
The really sad thing is, it's early September. The Camp Fire was on November 8th. It started raining the following week. We still have months to go before we receive the new normal rainy season.
This is awful.


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## DavidR8

I’ve been thinking about you both this week as I read the news. 
Please be safe no matter what. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Janderso

I'm not much of a dancer, but I'd be willing to learn how to rain dance.
Anybody?


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## DavidR8

I can't dance to save my life but I'd sure dance to save your and others houses!


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## alloy

I see what going on and I'm so sad for everyone that lost their homes and everything else.

I wish I was younger and able to go help somehow.  But I'd just be in the way.


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## Bob Korves

Janderso said:


> I'm not much of a dancer, but I'd be willing to learn how to rain dance.
> Anybody?


Rain would be great, as long as it does not come from a thunderstorm, which causes many wildfires.  We need some Nimbostratus clouds...


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## darkzero

My lil brother sent me this pic this morning, view from outside his home in the bay area.


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## DavidR8

Wow, that is surreal Will. I hope they are safe.


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## Janderso

That's the way it's been today. It was real dark about mid morning.


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## darkzero

DavidR8 said:


> Wow, that is surreal Will. I hope they are safe.



Thanks, they're fine, they live in the city. Fires are really bad this year, I hear it's a record for the most fires going on in CA at the same time.


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## Superburban

Record fires everywhere. All the rain did yesterday, was clear some smoke out of the area. Had  a fire here that closed I70 for a week or so. Now there is concerns of land slides, because the fires killed all the vegetation that helped keep the hills in place. I do not think that threat will go away anytime soon.


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## Janderso

There were over 15,000 fires from lightning in August. Many of those fires grew together calling it complex fires.
The state does not have the resources to cover all the demand.
Right now in the Oroville area, the authorities are evacuating burn victims and letting many of the properties burn.
It's an unprecedented nightmare. 
I think all of us assumed the Camp fire was an isolated incident with over 13,000 homes involved. This complex of fires state wide could exceed the 2018 wild fire season.
Oregon is having similar problems, Colorado, Idaho.......
That's why I'm praying for rain.


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## jlesser27

Here are some pictures from this morning in the east bay and San Francisco. This was leaving my house in Martinez on my way to the city. It was after 7:30am when normally we have sunny sky’s. I went over the Golden Gate Bridge and visibility was less than 100 feet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			














Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bob Korves

darkzero said:


> My lil brother sent me this pic this morning, view from outside his home in the bay area.
> 
> View attachment 336398


That is the way the sky looks here in Sacramento as well.  The pale yellow sun is difficult to find in the sky at times, and the temperature has dropped from 81 to 75, and is now back up to 79, quite low for this time of year here.


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## darkzero

Stay safe up there Bob (and everyone else). My brother said, as gloomy it is up there from all the smoke, he doesn't smell smoke.

Last month when we had fires down here, the sky didn't get dark but the air quality was bad, from the smoke that is, here in smoggy LA we always have bad air quality.


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## Aaron_W

Jeff I was thinking of you when I left the motel this morning. Not sure how much of a threat there is to Chico but with what you went through 2 years ago, I figured even if only a minor threat would still have you guys on edge. Too close for comfort. 

When I left the motel this morning I double checked the time, I thought I had somehow gotten up an hour early.

I spent 2 weeks doing supply near Alturas on the July complex. I was home about a week then got called to work in Dispatch in Willows when the lightning came through and started tons of new fires. There were 37 starts just on the Mendocino National Forest where I am now working. Those are now basically one huge fire. 
Between the two I've been out almost 5 weeks, feels like 5 months. The dispatch center manager says she is keeping me until Christmas. After the winds pushed all these fires yesterday I don't think the Christmas comment is that far from the truth.

I've been a firefighter since 1992, thought I'd been there done that. 2015 Middletown burned and it was shocking the speed it burned. 2017 Santa Rosa, Napa, and Redwood Valley were unprecedented. 2018 the Mendocino National Forest hosted the biggest fire in California history, then in November Paradise burned and again nothing to compare it to. Now 2020, looks like the Mendocino will break the acres in 2018 and I don't think we are the biggest of the current batch. I feel like the bald guy in The Princess Bride "Inconcevable".

Stay safe all.


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## matthewsx

Thank you Aaron, and all the others working to help save life and property this year. I heard on the way home tonight that two of the three firefighters injured when they had to deploy shelters were released from the hospital today and the third will be soon.

We have a strange combination of fog with smoke above it that made it pretty much like twilight or night for most of the day. It's supposed to burn off tomorrow and the smoke will be back.

Yes, everyone stay safe and anyone who's having a hard time with memories or anxiety should get help. It's okay to reach out.


John


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## westerner

I have two friends (dozer operators and/or transport drivers, private, not Forest Service) that have been sent to your support.
Considering where these resources are based, this speaks volumes to the seriousness of your situation.

You have my prayers and best wishes.


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## C-Bag

Just heard back from my best friend since 7th grade. He’s lived outside of North Fork for 25yrs surrounded by the national forest. They were evac’d yesterday and have been transferred to motels by the Red Cross down to Madera along with Bass Lake and Corsegold. They are usually the ones who stay but all his hard core friends said this ones the worst and to get out. They don’t expect containment till the end of October and are expecting to evac all the towns East of hwy41. 365 homes already lost and completely out of control. Heartbreaking.


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## DavidR8

Be safe all! @Aaron_W thank you for your help!


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## Norseman C.B.

We're getting hit hard and fast in Klamath and Jackson counties.my adopted Daughter may have been evacuated from her new home 
I haven;t heard from her today, her place of employment in the Phoenix area is toast.
I don't know if I will be able to pick up my new to me mill in Grants Pass this Saturday or not due to the fires around the Medford
area I can only hope this can be contained soon and pray that my grand children are alright, still waiting to hear from them.............


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## matthewsx

Norseman C.B. said:


> We're getting hit hard and fast in Klamath and Jackson counties.my adopted Daughter may have been evacuated from her new home
> I haven;t heard from her today, her place of employment in the Phoenix area is toast.
> I don't know if I will be able to pick up my new to me mill in Grants Pass this Saturday or not due to the fires around the Medford
> area I can only hope this can be contained soon and pray that my grand children are alright, still waiting to hear from them.............


My thoughts are with you and your family. Stay safe.

John


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## eeler1

I was in Blocksburg this last weekend getting the property ready for hunting season.  Smoky, hot, and DRY the whole time. No escape from any of it.  Left on Monday.  Tuesday the area was evacuated, all roads in or out closed.


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## matthewsx

Just thought I would put this out there in case anyone is in need. My friend has a house in Saratoga, CA she's trying to rent out, if anyone is burned out of their place and looking in that area send me a PM.

John


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## eeler1

Maybe we should start to deal with the issue itself instead of just the immediate effects.  I’ve lived in NorCal all my life, we’ve always had fires, but it was never catastrophic like this until the last decade or so.  Thanks a lot climate deniers.  I’m getting tired of living this way, surrounded by fire and choking in the smoke.  Every year now.  There’s nowhere to go to get away from it either, the entire West is burning.   Moderator, feel free to delete this if it’s too political, but I’m ****** that we all have to suffer due to stupidity of those that keep us from doing anything.


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## Janderso

Hopefully, long term, the western states can recover from clear cutting practices which caused the thick tree growth.
I have seen some tree thinning in Plumas County.
The task is so daunting with regard to man power, expense and the challenge of, right of entry, considerations.


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## Papa Charlie

Very sad to see all these fires, people displaced, homes, businesses and livelihoods destroyed. Of course there are those who have lost their lives and those that are risking their lives.
There have been several arrests here in WA as some of our fires have been started by these terrorists. They are saying that the fires in Oregon, which most started right along the highway were set. They are looking for several people also associated with these terrorist acts.
Also just read that they have arrested someone in connection with the Marin fire in CA.


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## Janderso

Papa Charlie said:


> they have arrested someone in connection with the Marin fire in CA.


Outstanding. Hang him by his B*****s


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## brino

Janderso said:


> Right now in the Oroville area, the authorities are evacuating burn victims and letting many of the properties burn.



Any one heard from Derrick?
@dlane you online and okay?

I am wishing safety for everyone!

-brino


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## alloy

This morning I received an exception notice from UPS that my package (a transmission part I worked on from an ebay sale) can't be delivered and is being sent back to me.

I've been shipping through ups since the 90's and never had a package returned.

So I was kinda ticked when I got the notice with no explanation so I called ups.

At first they didn't want to tell me the status pending notification of family.  

I'm thinking what are they talking about?  After I assured them I'm not family they informed me that the address doesn't exist anymore and asked if they wanted me to have them send the package back to me , or dispose of it.

I hope he survived, I'll have his housing waiting for him when things settle down.  But I have a feeling that a car part is the last thing on his mind about now.


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## eeler1

Police arrest man suspected of setting three fires in Novato – SFBay
					

A 55-year-old suspect was arrested Monday evening on suspicion of multiple counts of arson, Novato police said. Officers joined the Novato Fire Protection District in responding to a report of a tree on fire in the 1500 block of Novato Boulevard. Another fire was discovered in the area of Diablo...




					sfbayca.com
				




a homeless guy, probably insane (mentally ill), sets fires in downtown Novato, so not the cause of the devastating fires.  Maybe he was a terrorist, I don't know.   Yes, lock him up, and others who are intentionally setting fires.  

The Marin fire, and most of the other fires in NorCal, stem from lightning strikes in mid August.  Can't speak to whats causing fires up north.

One of the SoCal fires was apparently from fireworks at a 'gender reveal' party;  https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/09/09/gender-reveal-parties

Hate to be them when they get the bill for firefighting costs.


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## Janderso

When you are evacuated you can't get back in until they allow you back in.
The Camp fire was a really bad fire. It destroyed a town of over 25,000 people.
We weren't allowed to go back to our property for over a month. many people didn't find out about the status of their property for weeks.
In our case, my son's girlfriend's brother worked for the utility company. he drove by the house and confirmed it was gone.
This was three days after the fire. The insurance company will not issue any funds until they have proof of a loss. In our case, our insurance company sent us $5,000 for immediate incidentals since we were displaced. Not all companies did this.
UPS and USPS sat on a lot of packages shipped to addresses that no longer existed.
The local communities absorbed the town of Paradise residents.
I think many people resented us transients because the traffic was bad, restaurants, drug stores, retail shops were busy = long lines etc.
Health services were over loaded as all those facilities in paradise were gone.
I do go on don't I?


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## JimDawson

We have pretty much dodged the bullet in the immediate area, but not out of the woods for a few more days, rain is expected on Monday.  The winds were crazy, out of the East Mon, Tue, and Wed, calm today.  The good news is that the high winds took down a tree that knocked out a main power feeder line without causing a fire.  Power was out for about 25 hours during the worst of the winds.  This may have actually prevented additional fires by knocking out power to a wide area.  Forecast is for winds out of the SW with much higher humidity.  Hopefully this will give the fire crews to get a fire break established between the fire and the populated areas north of the fire.  The fire is mostly burning in unpopulated national forest areas, but north and west of the current fire line is heavily populated.  South of the map, in Marion County is also heavily populated and a couple of small towns are just gone.

Here is the Clackamas County evacuation map.  I live about 5 miles north of the red (mandatory evacuation area), center map near the north edge of the map.  The main fire front is about 20 air miles south of me.   The dark red dots on the map show the extent of the active fire area.


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## Janderso

How many homes in Medford were lost? Have they made any announcements yet?
It's great you are OK


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## JimDawson

Here is the best guess at this point.

_Updated Sep 09, 9:31 PM; Posted Sep 09, 10:05 AM 
'' Thousands have been told to evacuate in southern Oregon as strong winds fed the Almeda fire. The blaze has leveled hundreds of homes and wiped out businesses in a region that’s home to more than 80,000 people. ''_









						Wildfire cuts swath of destruction in southern Oregon; Phoenix and Talent ‘pretty well devastated’
					

Medford Mayor Gary Wheeler said the fire spread north from Ashland on Tuesday and has reached the southern edge of his city. “Basically, it looks like Phoenix and Talent are pretty well devastated,” he said. “It looks like a lot of damage for those little towns.”




					www.oregonlive.com


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## brino

JimDawson said:


> Here is the Clackamas County evacuation map. I live about 5 miles north of the red (mandatory evacuation area), center map near the north edge of the map. The main fire front is about 20 air miles south of me. The dark red dots on the map show the extent of the active fire area.



And Stu (@gr8legs ) is right there to the west in Siverton.....

Be safe all!

-brino


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## eeler1

Wow, we had just gone through Phoenix a couple of weeks ago, traveling north to get away from the smoke here in the central valley.  I wouldn’t have thought it would be a candidate for devastating fire, give terrain and vegetation.  I guess just about anyplace is susceptible.


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## Norseman C.B.

My Daughter and family were evacuated but they are alright, don't know if they have been 
given the OK to return yet.
She said it was too damn close and I fully agree, hope they catch the responsible bastards and shoot them on site  !!!


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## Papa Charlie

I hope all are well and safe. I also hope they catch and prosecute anyone who may have been involved in the  starting  of  these  fires.


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## matthewsx

While people do accidentally and even intentionally set fires mostly this is a
natural process.

Devastating yes, but part of the reason they are so hard to fight is because its really hard to get to where they start.

John


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## NortonDommi

Other side of the planet so I probably shouldn't comment but what is happening around the world really worries me. Particularity so in America. Another arsonist captured: https://bellinghammetronews.com/news/puyallup-man-arrested-while-starting-fire-bond-set-at-1000/
  My deepest sympathies to anyone affected by these fires.


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## matthewsx

NortonDommi said:


> Other side of the planet so I probably shouldn't comment but what is happening around the world really worries me. Particularity so in America. Another arsonist captured: http://www.protesterprivilege.com/2...-near-tacoma-wa-after-live-streaming-himself/ . My deepest sympathies to anyone affected by these fires.



I'm not even going to look at that link just based on the URL, we really try to keep politics off this site and I think it works well. There are plenty of other places for us to express political views and I can assure you that wildfires are really a natural phenomenon.

You live in a beautiful country and I hope to get back there some day. Maybe we can meet up and discuss these things in person over a cold beverage when I do 

John


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## Jubil

Prayers for all involved and thanks to all responders. 
Chuck


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## middle.road

Too damn dry out there. Can't believe how fast some of the fires are moving.
Can't believe the 'red' skies being shown. I would be having one hell of time trying to breath.
Very sad to hear of the young boy and his grandmother who lost their lives.

Was watching some of the clips this evening and they showed the humidity ranges for Oregon and Northern Cali. ~20%. 
And meanwhile, back east here I'm averaging 60-70% in the shop. And here is where I quit whining about rust on the machines...

Stay safe everyone.


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## JimDawson

Fire Update, Northern Oregon:

The east wind went calm as expected and the closest fire to me basically stopped moving about 20 miles south, now the fire crews have a chance of getting fire lines established.  The mandatory evacuation area stayed about 5 miles south of me, we really lucked out on this one.

There is a slight on-shore air flow, and the humidity is going up.  West winds are expected to pick up a bit over the next few days, this should help move the fires into unpopulated areas in the mountains.  Hopefully this will move the fires back into the burned out areas.  Some rain is forecast starting Monday, that will help a lot.

At the moment, smoke is the biggest problem.  We have an inversion layer and the smoke is hugging the ground.  Right now I can just make out my property fence line about 500 ft from the house, like very dense fog.  This is expected to last until Monday or so.

According to the news, about 500,000 people are under mandatory evacuation statewide.  The areas in southern and central Oregon around Medford, and east of Salem got hit very hard.  There are a few small towns that are just gone.


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## middle.road

I was wondering. I was watching a broadcast in the wee hours and they mentioned Sandy but didn't provide any details.
Moisture desperately needed, hopefully it will arrive soon.


JimDawson said:


> Fire Update, Northern Oregon:
> 
> The east wind went calm as expected and the closest fire to me basically stopped moving about 20 miles south, now the fire crews have a chance of getting fire lines established.  The mandatory evacuation area stayed about 5 miles south of me, we really lucked out on this one.
> 
> There is a slight on-shore air flow, and the humidity is going up.  West winds are expected to pick up a bit over the next few days, this should help move the fires into unpopulated areas in the mountains.  Hopefully this will move the fires back into the burned out areas.  Some rain is forecast starting Monday, that will help a lot.
> 
> At the moment, smoke is the biggest problem.  We have an inversion layer and the smoke is hugging the ground.  Right now I can just make out my property fence line about 500 ft from the house, like very dense fog.  This is expected to last until Monday or so.
> 
> According to the news, about 500,000 people are under mandatory evacuation statewide.  The areas in southern and central Oregon around Medford, and east of Salem got hit very hard.  There are a few small towns that are just gone.


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## Norseman C.B.

Air quality is in the toilet today. with my emphysema breathing is hard labor, the Chiloquin fire
is just north of me and the Medford area fires are north west of me but the Klamath Basin is a smoke collection zone
for Nor Cal and So Or.
My breathing issues are no comparison to the loss of life livelihood and property.
my prayers to to my country men and their families and my curses to those responsible !!


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## Nogoingback

Real-Time Air Quality Map | PurpleAir
					

Real time measurement of air quality on a public map. Useful to community scientists or air quality professionals alike, PurpleAir sensors are easy to install, requiring only a power outlet and WiFi.




					www.purpleair.com
				




This link is for a map that plots air quality with numerical values.  Oregon's air quality is terrible right now.


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## middle.road

Thanks for posting the link.
*GADS* I'd have to head East.


Nogoingback said:


> Real-Time Air Quality Map | PurpleAir
> 
> 
> Real time measurement of air quality on a public map. Useful to community scientists or air quality professionals alike, PurpleAir sensors are easy to install, requiring only a power outlet and WiFi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.purpleair.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This link is for a map that plots air quality with numerical values.  Oregon's air quality is terrible right now.


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## eeler1

And in the midst of devastation and loss, this also makes me sad;









						Rumors that antifa, Proud Boys started wildfires in Oregon are false, law enforcement officials say
					

Law enforcement officials in Oregon say there is no evidence that anti-fascists or right-wring groups were the cause of a series of devastating wildfires throughout the state.




					www.nbc26.com
				




Seems we can't even have catastrophic fires without the mis-information kicking in.

And I'm stunned to see that most of these fires in California still have little to no containment.  And containment doesn't mean control, just that we've put some sort of firebreak around the fire.  Which tells me the fires will continiue until we get some rain.  So it may be a while.  Far NorCal and maybe Oregon have a chance of rain next week.  Let's hope.


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## middle.road

Very sad, we need to focus on those displaced and affected by the fires. 
We need rain, not fake news. 
It's running rampant, has to stop. This should not be happening at a time like this.








						'STOP. SPREADING. RUMORS!' Law enforcement takes aim at fake Oregon arson claims
					

ROSEBURG, Ore. - Rumors and fake social media posts related to the explosive Oregon wildfires are spreading online, prompting law enforcement agencies to attempt to set the record straight. Multiple fires erupted earlier this week amid an unusual east wind event and hot, dry conditions. The...




					kval.com
				






eeler1 said:


> And in the midst of devastation and loss, this also makes me sad;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rumors that antifa, Proud Boys started wildfires in Oregon are false, law enforcement officials say
> 
> 
> Law enforcement officials in Oregon say there is no evidence that anti-fascists or right-wring groups were the cause of a series of devastating wildfires throughout the state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbc26.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems we can't even have catastrophic fires without the mis-information kicking in.
> 
> And I'm stunned to see that most of these fires in California still have little to no containment.  And containment doesn't mean control, just that we've put some sort of firebreak around the fire.  Which tells me the fires will continiue until we get some rain.  So it may be a while.  Far NorCal and maybe Oregon have a chance of rain next week.  Let's hope.


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## Mtnmac

We spent 18 days in our RV after being evacuated on Aug. 18.  Fortunately our house survived intact, the fire was stopped 600’ from the house.  Spent 2 days cleaning the refrigerator, that was the worst damage we suffered.  Many others weren’t so lucky, 925 houses were lost.


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## JimDawson

That news article is not completely correct, but there have been a number of rumors.  While affiliation with a particular group, if any, has not been established, there have been a couple of arson arrests.

Here is one:








						Sheriff: Springfield man tried to start fire at Dexter frisbee golf course this week
					

DEXTER, Ore. - A man faces accusations he tried to start a fire in the woods near the frisbee golf course at Dexter State Recreation Area on Wednesday. Firefighters responded to the scene and found passersby had quickly put out the fire, the Dexter fire chief said earlier this week. "The fire...




					kval.com
				




Another arson arrest occurred in Wa state.  https://bellinghammetronews.com/news/puyallup-man-arrested-while-starting-fire-bond-set-at-1000/

And the large fire complex east of Salem was deemed to be ''human caused'' per the authorities.  Having said that, ''human caused'' does not necessarily mean arson, could be an out of control campfire.

The ''Riverside and ''Beache Creek'' fires, the two large fires in northern Oregon, are suspect.  They both started along Forest Service Road 46, there are no power lines in the area near the ignition points, and no lightning in the area for a couple of weeks around the ignition time.

Here is another example, but it seems that this guy was starting a fire during the larger fire in the area.  I'm sure he is being questioned about his whereabouts when the Phoenix fire started.








						Sheriff: Arson arrest made in Phoenix on the night Almeda Fire began
					

A man is in custody, charged with two counts of arson and numerous other charges after allegedly starting a fire in Phoenix the night the Almeda Fire was raging.




					www.kdrv.com
				







middle.road said:


> Very sad, we need to focus on those displaced and affected by the fires.
> We need rain, not fake news.
> It's running rampant, has to stop. This should not be happening at a time like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'STOP. SPREADING. RUMORS!' Law enforcement takes aim at fake Oregon arson claims
> 
> 
> ROSEBURG, Ore. - Rumors and fake social media posts related to the explosive Oregon wildfires are spreading online, prompting law enforcement agencies to attempt to set the record straight. Multiple fires erupted earlier this week amid an unusual east wind event and hot, dry conditions. The...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kval.com


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## dlane

brino said:


> Any one heard from Derrick?
> @dlane you online and okay?
> 
> I am wishing safety for everyone!
> 
> -brino


Yup I made it everything is intact, I stayed after the evacuation order to put out spot fires with water hoses and shovel. I am on the frontline of my neighborhood where the fire was coming from. Lots of friends lost everything.
Thanks for the concern.


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## matthewsx

Mtnmac said:


> We spent 18 days in our RV after being evacuated on Aug. 18.  Fortunately our house survived intact, the fire was stopped 600’ from the house.  Spent 2 days cleaning the refrigerator, that was the worst damage we suffered.  Many others weren’t so lucky, 925 houses were lost.


So glad to hear your place survived, so many others lost but property can be replaced. I can only imagine how hard it is to leave something you worked your whole life for but it's probably the best move. Not to say anything negative about folks who did stay behind, resources are stretched so thin right now....

Let me know if there's anything I can do to help this weekend, I definitely owe you big-time from the lathe move....

John


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## dlane

And our wonderful governor cut firefighters pay 7.5% and released 8000 prisoners that some used to help with firefighting


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## Nogoingback

JimDawson said:


> That news article is not completely correct, but there have been a number of rumors.  While affiliation with a particular group, if any, has not been established, there have been a couple of arson arrests.



I worked one summer years ago on a project for the Forest Service and Cal Fire (called CDF in those days), and worked with a very experienced
guy who was a career Forest Service employee.  He told me that a pretty high percentage of fires are arson.  An obvious example of that occurred 
that summer: a sequence of small fires along the length of a highway in the Sierra foothills, all spaced out 15-20 miles apart.  Some fire bug
was driving down the road setting fires.  Fortunately they all were put out pretty quickly.


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## Nogoingback

JimDawson said:


> I live about 5 miles north of the red (mandatory evacuation area), center map near the north edge of the map.  The main fire front is about 20 air miles south of me.



Is the fire still holding that distance from your place Jim?


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## brino

dlane said:


> Yup I made it everything is intact



So glad to hear that!
Stay safe Derrick!!!!


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## middle.road

Sandy mentioned in a local news clip. 
Nice to see the community and people coming together.




Another clip I watched highlighted another town and the group there stated that donations were exceeding demand. That's cool.

Then there was another clip where they said that extra manpower and equipment was being brought in.
Let's hope the weather cooperates and that they can gain a foothold against the fires.


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## Norseman C.B.

It's good to see people stepping up to help each other like it used to be, GOD bless them


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## JimDawson

Nogoingback said:


> Is the fire still holding that distance from your place Jim?



As far as I can tell, yes.  The map was updated about 1/2 hour ago, I don't see any change since yesterday.  And no news reports of the fire lines moving much.  Calm winds and increased humidity is helping a lot.


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## Nogoingback

Good to hear.  My wife's cousin lives in Sandy, just north of town.  They were packing to leave, but they've 
decided not to.


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## eeler1

There are three major fires near my old home in Humboldt Co, CA, the August, Red Salmon, and Slater fire complexes.  About 1.1 Million acres burned so far, larger than Rhode Island, but not quite Delaware yet, just in these three and not counting the other fires in other areas.  









						FIRE UPDATE: August Complex Grows to Over 875,000 Acres, Still Has Not Burned into Humboldt County; Red-Salmon Fire Continues to Grow; Slater Fire Smaller Than Initially Estimated
					






					lostcoastoutpost.com
				




Unlike the mixed grass/timber/suburban fires, these are more of the true 'forest fire' type with less grass land and very little development.  So a different approach to firefighting from when I was on summer fire crew in the 1970's.  Back then, there was a lot more emphasis on saving timber, since we still had logging on federal lands.  Now, firefighters are apparently letting them burn out to more defensable containment lines except where they threaten lives and structures.   Not enough manpower to do more, I guess.  And possibly explains why containment is so low even after weeks of firefighting.  Seems we are in a holding pattern, pending changes in weather like wind or rain.

Some relatives and friends were ordered to evacuate last week, but are now being allowed to return under 'evacuation warning', meaning they should be ready to leave again at a moments notice.  I have a hand hewn redwood boat stored in one evacuation warning zone, but it is being moved to the coast since it is irreplaceable.  And it's a real blessing to have time to prepare and sort out what and how to evacuate.   Makes one appreciate how bad those folks had it in those emergency evacuations we've seen where they have almost no notice.  

Hate the smoke, but here in Sacramento it has knocked down the temperatures since sunlight can't get through.


----------



## silence dogood

The air of the whole state of Oregon is now a brownish white.  The sun is now a reddish orange.   A couple of days ago, we had to go to a funeral in Tenino Washington.  My one brother could not come because he had to take in his son and family since they lost their home to the fires.  Found out at least three arsonists have been caught in Oregon.  Hikers in the forest have found camp fires burning with no one around.  Some clown in Lynnwood Washington has been taking a chain saw to power poles.  My son who maintains the engines on the chinook that fights fires is grounded where they are just east of Salem since there is no visability. Half of the town is gone due to fires.  Fortunately. he and the aircraft crew are okay.  Still,   they have to wait for the air to clear so that the filters and rotors on the chopper are checked out before they can fly.  Sorry about the rant.  But damn it, it is a real mess.


----------



## Norseman C.B.

I was born and raised in Humboldt Co. Sad enough to watch it die financially over the last few decades
but even sadder to see it burn....................


----------



## eeler1

Dang, Oregon, your air is even worse than ours;









						Air Pollution in California: Real-time Air Quality Index Visual Map
					

How polluted is the air today? Check out the real-time air pollution map, for more than 100 countries.




					aqicn.org


----------



## Papa Charlie

We are so socked in here North of Seattle that it looks like we are surrounded by fog. I had to run an errand and just came back in. Took a couple of shots going down the road with my camera. Where the smoke is obstructing the view is less than 1/4 mile down the road. This smoke is coming from Oregon and Washington, has blown out to sea and then been blown back onto us.


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## middle.road

Has anyone heard how @dlane, Stu (@gr8legs ), and Jim (@JimDawson) are doing?
(I apologize if I left anyone out...)


----------



## JimDawson

middle.road said:


> Has anyone heard how @dlane, Stu (@gr8legs ), and Jim (@JimDawson) are doing?
> (I apologize if I left anyone out...)



I'm doing fine.  The fires have slowed down dramatically, and the evacuation areas have contracted.  Our biggest problem is smoke, extremely hazardous at this point.  Due to an extreme inversion layer, the smoke is hugging the ground.  This inversion layer is probably a once in a lifetime event.  The smoke is not allowing the sun to shine through to heat the ground, so there can be no uplift air mixing.  Basically the fires have created their own weather conditions.  Hopefully we'll get some onshore airflow in the next day or so and it will relieve the inversion.


----------



## gr8legs

Yeah, we've moved from a yellow (get set) to green alert (get ready) level and the air is a bit clearer and the smell is dissipating. Presuming no big change in wind or other conditions I think we're going to be missed by the fires.

I may be personally responsible for the change as the imminent threat got me and SWMBO into  'fixup the bugout motohome RIGHT NOW mode' and now it's semi roadworthy and no longer quite as urgent.

Now that I've said that the wind will change, right? Uh oh.


----------



## DavidR8

It’s raining on Southern Vancouver Island.
I sure hope that it moves south.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nogoingback

We're supposed to get some rain tonight, but it doesn't sound like much.  The forecast has changed several times
in the last few days.


----------



## Nogoingback

delete


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## Nogoingback

eeler1 said:


> Dang, Oregon, your air is even worse than ours;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Air Pollution in California: Real-time Air Quality Index Visual Map
> 
> 
> How polluted is the air today? Check out the real-time air pollution map, for more than 100 countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aqicn.org




I was talking with a friend in the Bay Area a few days ago and he was going on about how bad their smoke was:
the index was around 250.  At that point ours was between 500 and 600.  The highest number I've seen on the Oregon
map was 668!


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## Norseman C.B.

We got some wind out of the SSE and it made the air quality a bit better, was able to do some 
cleanup on the new to me mill. Had to break it down to get it off the rental drop deck trailer 
so I could return it this morning..............


----------



## jbolt

Oregon has three evacuation levels. 
1 Be Ready (make all preparations to leave)
2 Be Set (either evacuate or be ready to go at a moments notice)
3 GO! 

This was posted in one of the Facebook groups I follow.

"Posted by a resident of city of Detroit, Oregon that was burned down. 

“I’m mad.

And I strongly believe that I have a reason to be. I’m currently homeless, and though fortunate enough to have loving parents that will take me, my husband, our animals, and our neighbor and her dog in during a crisis...I count myself as lucky.

...but none of this should have happened.

A place to stay for a week or two is a blessing, of course. But watching everything you own burn in real time is devastating.

The offers of aid makes you feel hope, but then looking at your bag of possessions and realizing that you have grabbed four shirts and no pants and 1 pair of underwear and no inhaler for your asthma...you just feel beat down.

Detroit authorities specifically told people not to worry about even a level 1 evac on Monday night. They said there wouldn’t be a worry in the next 48 hours.

And then we lost power. So most of us went to bed at 6-7pm. Because the area is so rural, most of us rely on WiFi for our phones to work since cell reception is so bad. No power = no cell service.

There were no warning texts (even once I got service again). There were no warning evacuation emails or calls. Just waking up at 1:30am to people screaming that we have to leave NOW. Then the effort was abandoned shortly after coming to our street.

We spent a few minutes saving our pets; but had no time to gather documents or valuables. (Which would have been ready if we had been on an even level 1 alert)

And then waking up to that chaos, and looking for guidance from the folks evacuating us (fire marshalls, police etc) and they can’t even tell you an escape route. All they said was that everything was burning. Don’t go west. Don’t go east. Don’t go north or south. Good luck.

Nobody in Detroit had time to think, or pack essentials, or save anything. There was no warning.

We weren’t told whether to go east or west, so we picked the most convenient direction, and drove through fire that melted cars. Some people ran out of gas along the way and died. Some people didn’t wake up to the notice and died. Some people’s tires melted from driving through flames and died.

During my insane drive for my life with a dog and cat in the car, I tried to turn on the radio for info, and even though I normally have 20 fm stations and 50 am ones, the radio was completely static and I couldn’t get anything in.

News reports are downplaying what the 1000 residents of my area went through that night. We honestly all thought we were going to burn to death as we drove over flaming debris and our cars were so hot from the flames that you assumed the gas tank would blow.

It will haunt me for the rest of my life.

But now I’m mad.

It was known that this was going to get bad. It was known that we’d lose power. It was known that people were told not to even consider level 1 evac, even though it was inevitable.

I’m upset that my house is gone. But I’m more upset that we were so completely lied to and didn’t have a chance to save anything.

And that’s not the responsibility of our fighting fire crews. It’s 100% our government that failed us.

Nobody should have died that night. Nobody should have been surprised by the evacuation.

The santiam canyon was let down in a horrific way that could have cost us all our lives. It’s incredibly maddening that when you try and search for updates on loss of life and property, you mostly just hear state officials congratulate themselves and say that the situation was “unexpected”.

It wasn’t. They knew. And efforts were made to tell the residents of Detroit that “everything’s fine”.

..it wasn’t. And people died because of it.

That’s the part I just can’t make peace with.

To anyone in Oregon or California right now that’s experiencing smoke or run-off heat from fires: make your own plan and make it now. You absolutely can’t do what we did, expecting the experts to tell you when you are in danger and what to do.

This is just getting worse. Put some of your **** in the car now, and do your own research.”


----------



## silence dogood

I wrote about Gates earlier.  Gates is about 15 miles west of Detroit.  It is also 15 miles east of Stayton.  You just read at the last thread about the poor guy in Detroit.  In Stayton a 13 year old boy with his dog tried to save his grandmother. All three perished.  Half of Gates is gone.  I just called my son,  Even though the chinook was a couple hundred feet a way, it checked out okay.  They still can't fly to put out fires because the air quality is so bad.  After 12 straight days of frustration he's going home to his family for his time off.


----------



## dlane

Strange how climate change stops at the Canada and Mexico borders


----------



## Aaron_W

dlane said:


> Strange how climate change stops at the Canada and Mexico borders



The Canadians might disagree with you there, lots of big fires in recent years.


----------



## Janderso

Dlane,
Good to see you are alive and kicking.


----------



## DavidR8

Aaron_W said:


> The Canadians might disagree with you there, lots of big fires in recent years.


Ummm yup British Columbia had its worst fire season in history a year or so back.
The Mountain Pine Beetle devastated our southern province forests leaving behind thousands of hectares of unlit matches.


----------



## Aaron_W

I just thought some might find it interesting just how far and wide people come to help with these fires. I've been working in Dispatch of the Mendocino Complex, and my main task has been sending people home, most work 14-21 days, then go home. Those on equipment often swap crews, leaving the equipment here and replace with fresh crews. 
We have people from all over the US, Alaska, Florida, Maine, Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands and many closer. They are bringing over some crews from American Somoa. Also 200 military personnel are deployed as fire crews. 

This is just the fire I am working, it is similar on all of these fires, it is truly a group  effort on a grand scale. We usually get some from Canada, New Zealand and Australia in bad years too I just haven't seen it on this fire yet.


----------



## francist

200 initial response personnel from BC Wildfire Service are headed to Redmond later this week. Was just announced today. There were 800 volunteers, so I think another batch may be deployed later.

-frank


----------



## Nogoingback

Well, the good news is we finally got some rain during the night, though accompanied by lightning.  Hopefully none of
the strikes started anything new.  Some areas got more than 1.5" of rain which should help the firefighters, though now
there's concern about flash floods in the burned over areas.  Air quality is better, and containment percentages
on the big fires in Oregon are improving as well.


----------



## eeler1

Some evacuations orders in NorCal now are just warnings.  Air quality here is breathable again.  Hope it holds until the rain season.


----------



## Janderso

eeler1 said:


> Some evacuations orders in NorCal now are just warnings.  Air quality here is breathable again.  Hope it holds until the rain season.


Unfortunately tomorrow the winds change again.
Have your KN95 or N95 masks ready.
My wife and I enjoyed four days of clean air along the coast.


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## FOMOGO

I don't think Dlane was talking about the fires, and I feel the same way. We've had smoke here for what seems like ever, and I don't mean just this year, the last few days I've tried to stay in the shop or house it's gotten so bad. Some people need to take their heads out of there a$$, and start listening to are scientists. This is not going to get better any time soon if we don't start demanding some change, and action, instead of the same old moronic bull&!!#. I really try to stay out of this arena, I'm not picking one side or the other, there's plenty of blame to go around, but enough is enough. There are innocent lives in the balance, and those at the top just don't care, as long as the money keeps rolling in. Mike



Aaron_W said:


> The Canadians might disagree with you there, lots of big fires in recent years.


----------



## silence dogood

Last night it rained.  Looked out the front door after waking up this morning. You can see for miles and the you can take deep breaths of fresh clean air. If it wasn't for knowing that people have lost their homes and loved ones, I'd be elated.


----------



## Janderso

Norseman C.B. said:


> I was born and raised in Humboldt Co. Sad enough to watch it die financially over the last few decades
> but even sadder to see it burn....................


With the pot revenue drying up, towns like Willits must be struggling.
I’m not a big fan of illegal pot farmers bypassing the IRS with cash crops.
Sorry, too political? I don’t smoke dope.
Yes, it’s sad to see these beautiful forests burning.
How can the states fund selective cuts, brush mitigation to reduce wildfires?.
My opinion, let the private sector into federal, private and state lands to take timber as needed with a plan to grow a healthy, renewable forest.
Just saying....


----------



## Superburban

Janderso said:


> How can the states fund selective cuts, brush mitigation to reduce wildfires?.
> My opinion, let the private sector into federal, private and state lands to take timber as needed with a plan to grow a healthy, renewable forest.
> Just saying....


That just makes too much sense. I used to hike many trails in the east coast mountains. Many of the trails were old fire breaks/ trails, now they are barely a person trail. What is so bad about keeping those as fire access, or better, fire breaks? Run them in conjunction with off road clubs, and they will volunteer the time and equipment to cut and haul away the trees, and maintain the trails for easy access for the fire fighters.


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## Aaron_W

Janderso said:


> With the pot revenue drying up, towns like Willits must be struggling.
> I’m not a big fan of illegal pot farmers bypassing the IRS with cash crops.
> Sorry, too political? I don’t smoke dope.
> Yes, it’s sad to see these beautiful forests burning.
> How can the states fund selective cuts, brush mitigation to reduce wildfires?.
> My opinion, let the private sector into federal, private and state lands to take timber as needed with a plan to grow a healthy, renewable forest.
> Just saying....



Unfortunately I think we are beyond that point. I see this as nature saying we had our chance and now it will manage the land for us. The forests will grow back, but it will take decades which isn't much consolation for those of us here now who enjoy them.

Many people like to point to Native American use of fire on the land. That encouraged fire dependent vegetation, but it isn't a natural process. 
Many European settlers also used fire on the land, hunters, farmers, ranchers and sheepherders frequently used fire to leave open spaces that were useful to them, and in many parts of California this occurred into the 1930s and 40s. The Mendocino National Forest which has been hammered by fires in recent years (now has the dubious honor of hosting the 1st and 2nd largest fires in state history) was one of the only forests in California during the 1950s and 60s that would allow Harold Biswell to conduct his experiments conducting prescribed burns . Harold Biswell was something of an outcast derisively known by his fellow professors of forestry at UC Berkeley, as Harry the Torch. 
At that time timber  was king and fire scared trees didn't bring as much money. Like fire logging on a large scale changes the eco system. As California forests go the Mendocino has been fairly progressive in using fire to reduce fuel loading. In the big picture those areas treated may prove to have sustained less severe burning, but the forest as a whole has been devastated. Most of its 913,000 acres will have burned between the fires in 2018 and 2020.


At the turn of the last century there were massive fires in the Northern states as a result of unregulated logging, fires that until recently made our current fires seem pretty tame. 

In 1871 the Pestigo fire in Wisconsin burned 1.2 million acres, at the same time the Great Michigan and Port Huron fires burned 2.5 million acres in Michigan (the drought and hot dry winds also added to the Great Chicago fire which occurred at the same time). 1000-2500 died in Wisconsin, and another 250-500 in Michigan (the actual number is unknown since most records of who lived in the area were destroyed by the fires). 

The 1881 the Thumb fire burned 1 million acres in one day on the  "thumb" of Michigan's lower peninsula.

In 1894 the Great Hinkley Fire in Minnesota burned 250,000 acres and killed 400-500 people.

In 1902 the Yacolt fire burned 500,000 acres in Washington and Oregon.

Then in 1910 the Great Fire of 1910 topped them all burning 3 million acres in Washington, Idaho, Montana and British Columbia and killing 78 people (mostly men recruited to fight the fires). 1910 was ended with the Baudette fire that burned 300,000 acres in Minnesota. 

These are just the more notable fires that we still remember over 100 years later. The "War on fire" was declared by men who had these fires as recent history which often gets overlooked by modern historians looking for an easy solution and somebody to point a finger at.

Climate plays a part whether it is "changing" or just abnormal. Drought, high temperatures and winds make fires more intense. Drier warmer winters have sparked an increase in the bark beetle activity that are turning forests in Southern California into standing kindling. Bad management plays a part. 
Human infrastructure adds to fire starts, and makes the fires more expensive and harder to control (firefighters sitting by houses to protect them are not available to engage the actual fire). People living near the forests also make it harder to use managed fire, due to complaints of the smoke, and the added hazard of "bonus acres". If a managed fire gets a little froggy in the middle of the forest it isn't as serious as when it gets loose in nearby communities.   

There are no easy answers, and unfortunately people have attention spans that are too short to usefully implement some of the better ideas. You can't create a workforce overnight, so throwing money at the problem this year and cutting budgets next year are not a solution. One of my old bosses used to say, the last time I checked, it takes about 20 years to gain 20 years of experience.   


Off of my soap box.


----------



## ericc

That is a very insightful post.  It exposes the simplistic view that letting the market take care of the problem will do the right thing.  The financial incentives are not there, as has been pointed out many many times.  There is a global warming problem, a biomass accumulation problem, and a residential housing problem.  Each one of these is world class, as we say in the biz.

I have been trying to solve the biomass problem, at least around my little yard.  These dangerous fuels have low economic value.  I have not been able to sell them, and it is pricey to have them hauled away to make them someone else's problem.  It does make very workable fuel for a guerilla furnace, but is not satisfactory for a forge.


----------



## Aaron_W

ericc said:


> That is a very insightful post.  It exposes the simplistic view that letting the market take care of the problem will do the right thing.  The financial incentives are not there, as has been pointed out many many times.  There is a global warming problem, a biomass accumulation problem, and a residential housing problem.  Each one of these is world class, as we say in the biz.
> 
> I have been trying to solve the biomass problem, at least around my little yard.  These dangerous fuels have low economic value.  I have not been able to sell them, and it is pricey to have them hauled away to make them someone else's problem.  It does make very workable fuel for a guerilla furnace, but is not satisfactory for a forge.



I did a short paper on uses of bio-mass a few years ago for a series of classes I took. A huge problem with market based solutions is most want the big trees which are not the problem. Not a lot of commercial use for the (flammable) small trees and under growth.

There is some neat technology available to use "worthless" biomass, some of it even DIY suitable. You can run a generator off of wood chips, and the "waste" char makes a great nutrient rich soil amendment. Other devices can get a petrolium like oil that can be used straight as a heating oil or as a refinery feeder stock to make gasoline, diesel etc. One of the simpler devices is an air curtain, basically a dumpster with a big fan to make the wood burn clean. With the right additional equipment the heat can be used to generate electricity.

Here is an instructables on making your own gasifier. During WW2 millions of vehicles were being run using similar devices. When I was doing my paper I found an article about a guy who ran his whole house off a generator fueled by a home made gassifier. 

https://www.instructables.com/id/Power-in-the-Apocalypse-How-to-Build-a-Wood-Gasifi/


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## Nogoingback

Here are a couple examples of German vehicles converted during WWII: allied bombing raids destroyed so much
petroleum production that the Germans didn't have enough fuel for their fighters, (thankfully).


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## eeler1

These aren’t all forest fires, an awful lot is grasslands and mixed woodlands.  And towns.

So many causes.  Not enough cures.  And not a serious commitment to dealing with this stuff long term.

Not a fan of cutting  every tree down, but geez.  Timber sales used to fund an awful lot of forest service projects, proscribed burns, roads, etc, but we don’t have timber sales anymore, at least not in Norcal.  Unlimited funding for fighting fires, not much for prevention.


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## erikmannie

I will upload a few pictures of doing my UPS route in Calistoga, CA today.

The first picture is on the South Fork of Diamond Mountain Rd. I rounded a corner and there was a burning forest on both sides of the road. I had to back up about a half mile, at which point I saw a Cal Fire firefighter. He said I should get off the mountain while I still had a chance.


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## erikmannie

The second picture is a house that I was trying to deliver to. The house was burned down. The flames are the natural gas line burning off.


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## erikmannie

The next two pictures are (1) the smoke perimeter, and (2) a picture that shows how smoky it was. The whole town was evacuated so there was very little traffic. Were it not for all the smoke, it would have been a very easy day.

About 10 to 20 of my customers had their houses burn down today.


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## erikmannie

The last two pictures are (1) a vineyard with the fire behind it and telephone poles and powerlines in the foreground which burned and fell over, and (2) the amount of ashes that fell on my wife’s van in the 9 hours that I spent working.


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## erikmannie

Here are some pictures from today:


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## Madgepetto

We moved back up to Paradise two months ago, living in a condo for now.Had to evac again one night a while back but then an advisory was issued again night before last.My wife bailed out and went to Sacramento to stay with our kids there, I'm still here but it's becoming ever clearer that it was a mistake to think we could come home again.I think we're going to sell our land up here and this condo and leave CA, but I can't for the life of me figure out where to go.
Spent the first year after the Camp fire in Denver, couldn't hack the weather, all the little places we might could afford up in Oregon are burning now and we left SW Washington to escape the rain back in 1997.Spent 22 years in Paradise but nobody can live like this.Even when you're not thinking about it, it's there.And to top it off I can't get an electrician to come install a couple breakers and wire in my new to me old mill and lathe.....They are all to busy!


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## erikmannie

I would leave if I could. I’m stuck here in CA for another 10 years at my job. My wife and I have discussed moving away for our retirement to somewhere where they don’t have a problem with wildfires.


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## erikmannie

Two more pictures from Diamond Mountain in Calistoga, CA:


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## eeler1

My granddaughter was renting a place near Ono, CA, an area of mixed grassland with some oak and conifer trees (not forest) and was just burned out by the Zogg fire.  Everything gone, and no insurance to cover any of it.  She’s got a motel voucher for a week, and a care package of essentials.  Came away from the fire without a change of clothes, or as she has just told us, even a toothbrush.  Just 2 dogs and whatever was in the pickup as she drove away.  She’s 22, so not a lot of possessions, but still pretty tough to suddenly have nothing.  Her husbands boss is going to let them borrow a spare rv until they figure out what their future is.  We have a big family, so lots of help, of course.  Just hard to imagine all the stuff that will need to be replaced.


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## Winegrower

These are sad stories, and i have sympathy for all the victims.   But for circumstance any of us could be in the same shape as well.    But if you can decide on a location in the US that has a better combination of weather, variety, opportunity, lifestyle and is free from any threat of earthquake, hurricanes, floods, icy roads, fire, civil unrest, pollution, and so on, please post, and we’ll see you there.

For me, it’s unlikely such a place exists, but suggestions are always welcome.  

P.S. Texas and Florida are ruled out.


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## erikmannie

We are pictures of Calistoga on Wednesday, 9/30/2020. The picture with the rubble used to be a very fancy getaway, Calistoga Ranch. I am starting to worry about all of the smoke that I have been inhaling every day.


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## erikmannie

I didn’t take pictures of the cannabis gardens, but it looks like the smoke kills this plant.

It also appears hat all of the grapes are ruined.


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## NCjeeper

Pretty eerie.


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## ACHiPo

Winegrower said:


> These are sad stories, and i have sympathy for all the victims.   But for circumstance any of us could be in the same shape as well.    But if you can decide on a location in the US that has a better combination of weather, variety, opportunity, lifestyle and is free from any threat of earthquake, hurricanes, floods, icy roads, fire, civil unrest, pollution, and so on, please post, and we’ll see you there.
> 
> For me, it’s unlikely such a place exists, but suggestions are always welcome.
> 
> P.S. Texas and Florida are ruled out.


Yeah hurricanes, floods, tornados, blizzards, humidity, fires, earthquakes...no place is totally safe (or pleasant, or cheap).


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## ACHiPo

erikmannie said:


> I didn’t take pictures of the cannabis gardens, but it looks like the smoke kills this plant.
> 
> It also appears hat all of the grapes are ruined.


I read somewhere that some wineries are using smoke tainted grapes to make smokey grappa/brandy.  Clever idea, but not sure the market is as good as for Cab.


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## Flyinfool

Winegrower said:


> These are sad stories, and i have sympathy for all the victims.   But for circumstance any of us could be in the same shape as well.    But if you can decide on a location in the US that has a better combination of weather, variety, opportunity, lifestyle and is free from any threat of earthquake, hurricanes, floods, icy roads, fire, civil unrest, pollution, and so on, please post, and we’ll see you there.
> 
> For me, it’s unlikely such a place exists, but suggestions are always welcome.
> 
> P.S. Texas and Florida are ruled out.



I found a pretty good place, Right here in good old Wisconsin, We do not get the life and home threatening disasters, no earthquakes, no hurricanes, No floods in most of the state, no newsworthy forest fires, only a couple places in the big cities with occasional pollution, but our worst days are a good day in CA. WI even has a decent Wine growing industry and the areas that have that also are free of the civil unrest, pollution. Blistering heat is also rare up here.

I will gladly take a good old blizzard over any natural disaster, A blizzard will not force you out of your home or destroy every thing you own or even try to kill you. You just pull up a chair by the picture window with a mug of hot chocolate sitting by the fireplace snuggled up with your significant other, and watch the beauty of the show. Wait a day or 2 and the roads are all cleaned off and safe for travel. and everything is a clean beautiful white.


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## Winegrower

It’s probably a good thing that we can see desirable locations differently, else we would all go there and ruin it quickly.  
I would not have thought of Wisconsin, but the hot mug of chocolate could swing the vote.


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## Flyinfool

There is also hot apple cider........


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## erikmannie

Here are the photos from today; this is the Southern Face of Mount St. Helena in Calistoga, CA.

These will be the last pictures from this fire due to a situation I had with a looter; this situation allowed me to get off work early today, though. My UPS center will no longer deliver in a mandatory evacuation area; it is too smoky, in any case.


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## Janderso

From the pics it looks like the fire is staying on the ground in the under brush. I'm sure trees are involved in places but if the fires don't kill the trees that would be a real blessing. Such a beautiful area.

Madgepetto, we lost our home/shop in the Camp fire also. I can't imagine the anxiety living back up there then getting an evacuation warning.
We have our lot for sale but no calls yet. I know there are going to be thousands of lots for sale when the PG&E lawsuit is settled. The attorneys are telling people not to sell until they are all paid out.
We replaced our home by buying in Chico. We can't leave, my kids and grand babies are here. I retire soon though 

Erich, I hope you are wearing a KN95 or N95 being exposed like you are.


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## cjtoombs

I've been here in CA for 20 years, and have only ever had to worry about the smoke from the wildfires, so there are places in CA where that's not a problem.  Of course not much grows here and it hits 115 regularly in the summer, but that helps keep the people away   I can see the mountains today, so not that bad a smoke day, but there for a few weeks it got pretty bad here.  We always get some smoke here in the valley, but this year has been the worse since I've been here.  We're pretty lucky that that's all we have to contend with.  Hope for some rain, for the sake of the rest of you.


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## eeler1

Well, this isn’t the same California I grew up in.  Fires and devastation aside, choking on smoke for 2 or 3 months every year has become the new normal, and takes a bit of the luster off our beautiful state.  Not that I’m going anywhere, but clear air alone has great appeal to me right now.


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## jbolt

Janderso said:


> I know there are going to be thousands of lots for sale when the PG&E lawsuit is settled. The attorneys are telling people not to sell until they are all paid out.


I would really love to know what the PG&E settlements are for the 2017 Tubs fire. The settlement is confidential which has irked the Camp fire victims. I did consulting work for PG&E for the Tubbs fire evaluating property loss during the litigation pre-PG&E bankruptcy. What surprised me most was the number of claims I worked on where the home was a second home or a retirement home where the owners chose not to carry homeowners insurance even though it was not a financial factor to them.


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## jbolt

erikmannie said:


> We are pictures of Calistoga on Wednesday, 9/30/2020. The picture with the rubble used to be a very fancy getaway, Calistoga Ranch. I am starting to worry about all of the smoke that I have been inhaling every day.
> 
> View attachment 338952


Wow. I consulted on a construction defect litigation on that place many years ago. A lot of Hollywood types world go there. All the living units were pre-built modular units delivered on wheels like mobile homes so they could be classified as mobile units which have different zoning and building codes. I thought they were awful, especially for the rates that were being charged. Nothing says "Excellence" like a swanky trailer park! 

During one of our site inspections we were told Natalie Portman was there "winding down" from a movie shoot. Poor thing. (GAG!) The guests were transported around in covered golf carts and when Ms. Portman was being delivered to the club house we were all told to hide so she didn't have to see us. Pretty stupid.


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## eeler1

Blue skies and fluffy clouds now 3 days in a row.  We aren’t out of the woods yet, as most fires are still burning, just not so crazy.  Glad for a bit of relief.

My Granddaughter is ok, although sad to go through a total loss.  Family and friends came through for her.  And Red Cross helped a lot, day to day items and a place to stay.  I’m gonna send them a few bucks since they seem to have this stuff down.  Encourage others to do so also.  Too many catastrophe’s to contribute to each one.  Nice to have a kind of umbrella organization that responds to all of them.


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## FOMOGO

Went for a three mile walk today for the first time in two months because the sky was fairly clear. Felt great. We had about an inch of snow, and some rain just prior to that, with night time lows in the mid 20'syesterday. Seemed to really help the air quality, hoping it lasts for a while. Mike


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