# Thinking of buying a Bridgeport Mill



## Just for fun (Aug 7, 2021)

I don't know anything about Bridgeport Mills.   Is there a Model number or size that I should be inquiring about?  Here is the ad of what he is selling.  I can't test it out so it is one of those buyer be ware type of thing I guess.  Looking for advice, good deal, fair deal or over priced?









						Bridgeport Milling Machine and Southbend Lathe - tools - by owner -...
					

Selling my Bridgeport milling machine and Southbend tool room lathe. These machines are in pristine working order and were purchased directly by me from a machine shop in Providence Rhode Island...



					wenatchee.craigslist.org


----------



## mmcmdl (Aug 7, 2021)

Way overpriced ! The right angle head is no-where even close to $2000 .


----------



## Just for fun (Aug 7, 2021)

What would be a fair price for the mill and attachments?


----------



## Jake P (Aug 7, 2021)

Is this not local to you?  Looks to me you and the seller are both in Chelan. 

If so, I’d just head on over and at least take a look and talk with the seller.  At least from my experience I think you can get a good feel for the situation in person.  There’s those folks that you just know you can trust and then there’s those who you just know you best run from. 

If it’s close to you I would head on over there ASAP (while you wait for more informed feedback from the knowledgeable ones here) and see what the situation is. 

You just never know.  You might make a new friend that really takes a liking to you and offers you a sweet deal??? 

As Rosanne used to say “it could happen”.


----------



## Just for fun (Aug 7, 2021)

That's the plan, I just trying to get some sort of an idea of what it might be worth.  

I sent him an email tonight so well see what he has to say.


----------



## mmcmdl (Aug 7, 2021)

I would say the mill is worth a possible $1500 - $1700 tops ! It's a J head and it's not in pristine condition as the pics show . The right angle head possibly $300 - $350 . I see no drill chucks and what other attachments might he have ? Angle plates aren't Bridgeport attachments . $6800 would buy you the Haas in the background and maybe a little more .

" Currently the tools are in storage where 3 phase is unavailable, so no testing is available.  " Buyer beware .


----------



## projectnut (Aug 7, 2021)

I would agree with with mmcmdl's assessment.  Bridgeport's are good machines, but this one is way over priced.  It's also a very early model given the power feed on the table.  If you're able to take a look at it check the serial number.  It should be stamped on the top of the knee where the table is sitting in the first picture.  You'll have to crank the table back a couple inches to see it.

Here's a link to a serial number chart on webmetalnews.com






						BRIDGEPORT MILLING MACHINE "J" HEAD SERIAL NUMBERS | Rare Metal Blog
					

The serial number is on the knee of the machine It can be obscured by the chip shield.     Date   Start S/N   End S/N  1938  BH-1  THRU  BH-39 Round ram  1939  BH-40  THRU  BH-252  1940  BH-253  THRU  BH-656  1941  BH-657  THRU  BH-1549  1942  BH-560  THRU  BH-2943  1943  BH-944  THRU  BH-4105...



					metalwebnews.com
				




As for the right angle drive there are several currently listed on eBay with asking prices in the $300.00 to $600.00 range depending on age and condition.  Given the serial number on the head it was probably built in the mid 1960's.  That doesn't necessarily mean the machine is that new because it's quite common for commercial shops to just exchange the head for a rebuilt rather than take the machine out of production for the time needed  to rebuild it in house.  Also looking at the condition (surface rust) on the table the machine hasn't been used in quite some time.


----------



## sdelivery (Aug 7, 2021)

I also think this is over priced.
Just because the y axis ways show some flaking doesn't mean it is in pristine condition.
A large part of pricing an object includes two factors demand and availability in your area, and condition.
In my area I would pay up to 1200.00 for a Used Bridgeport series one with the stepped pulley head.
Your area may be more, I don't know.
Depending on what is available to you shipping could raise a price considerably so paying a little more to purchase but be able to put it on your trailer and drive it home has REAL value and should be considered in the machines value.


----------



## mmcmdl (Aug 7, 2021)

If I sold this mill I would list at $1500 , and gladly take $1000 without all the extra attachments  If you're considering a BP and willing to spend that kind of $$$$$$ , man you can pm me anytime !


----------



## mksj (Aug 7, 2021)

The price is excessive, I have seen much better mills in the 4K range and under. You can buy a new step pulley mill for 6.8K and just add a VFD. I have the Acra LMV-42 that I purchased directly from Acura, you can save a bit going direct. Eisen and a few other distributors sell Taiwanese knee mills in the same price range.  Tooling, you are probably better off getting newish stuff as opposed to beat up hodge podge.


			https://acramachinery.com/product/lcm-42-vertical-step-pulley-milling-machine/
		









						EISEN S-2A 9x49 Milling Machine, 3HP, Bridgeport-style, Free X-axis Powerfeed
					

S-2A Milling Machine Key Features 9" x 49" table R8 taper spindle 3 HP variable speed motor High precision angular contact bearings in spindle designed for both high precision and the ability to take thrust loads "Turcite-B" bearing material on way surfaces MEEHANITE casting: Fine grain, high...




					eisenm.com


----------



## Just for fun (Aug 7, 2021)

Thanks guys,  Didn't know for sure what they were worth.  After looking around the internet last night I can see what you mean about being overpriced.  

I would prefer to have new anyway.  I'm not even going to look at it.


----------



## MrWhoopee (Aug 7, 2021)

Unless you have an unlimited budget, it's hard to justify the cost of new for a hobbyist. The price difference between a good used mill and new will buy a lot of the tooling you are going to need. Tooling is expensive and it takes a lot to be able to fully utilize a mill. Were it me, I'd set a maximum of about $2500 for a mill and the same amount for tooling. Used mills can frequently be found with basic tooling included, sometimes much more than the basics.


----------



## Aaron_W (Aug 7, 2021)

I will note that he claims to be including every attachment available for the BP, it is not just the right angle head. It does sound like he is including a lot of tooling as well as a like new Kurt vice which alone could run $450+.

If you assumed $2800 for the mill, $500 for the vise and $2500 in tooling with $1000 added for negotiating it might not be that overpriced. Of course that all depends on what tooling he actually has and the condition of everything.

$7000 will put you into most of the PM knee mills, but then you have to consider taxes, delivery fees, a vise ($600 for a new 6" Kurt), tooling (a lot more $$$$$), so this could actually be worth a look, as new could easily run you $10,000 delivered with a nice variety of tooling.

Edit
I'm not saying that this is a good deal, just that it could be, all depends on what it actually comes with. Based on the photos I'm not seeing the "every accessory made for a BP", I don't even see a rotary table included but if he has a lot more than is shown it could actually be a decent price.


----------



## Beckerkumm (Aug 7, 2021)

IMO, when buying used you want to look for a higher quality machine than you can afford new.  The 6-7K range buys a pretty nice used mill that isn't step pulley, has a bigger table ( I like additional width ), has an X and Z powerfeed, and maybe even a power drawbar if you get lucky.  Taiwan mills are cheaper used than Bridgeport.  Machines made by First are usually good quality.  Alliant mills were one of the early BP clones and some say nicer.  I've bought tooling with machines and most of it sits in the box.  I'd buy a good machine and tooling as needed.  Dave


----------



## Just for fun (Aug 7, 2021)

That all makes since but I would prefer a little newer.  I like the idea of buying used with tooling but preferably not something almost as old as I am.


----------



## ErichKeane (Aug 7, 2021)

$7k is a TON for a run out bridgeport... That is "new import" mill price range!  That one doesn't even seem to have powerfeed or a DRO!  For that price, you could pick up one of the 9x49 Birmingham mills brand-new: 

Pulley change head with powerfeed + DRO: ~ $6500








						Birmingham Milling Machine 9" x 49" Table, R8 Spindle, 3HP/220V Motor w/Uniq/Sino DRO 2 Axis & Align Power Milling Table Feed - Longitudinal X-Axis - BPS-1649C
					

Offering a huge selection of industrial tool sales online. Find over 100,000 metalworking products, precision measuring tools, power tools & accessories.




					www.penntoolco.com
				




Variable speed head, with powerfeed + DRO: ~$7300








						Birmingham Milling Machine with 9" x 49" Table, with DRO & Power Feed - B3S-800P
					

Offering a huge selection of industrial tool sales online. Find over 100,000 metalworking products, precision measuring tools, power tools & accessories.




					www.penntoolco.com


----------



## Tmate (Aug 8, 2021)

I paid $3,500 for this one bare, which was about average in my area.   Any $1,500 to $2,000 mills I looked at were junk.  I added an X axis power feed, a VFD, and a DRO.  I wanted a step-pulley model since I was going to need a VFD anyway, and a 36" table for space reasons.

I'm sure I could have waited and looked and maybe saved a thousand dollars or so, or gotten one with some accessories.  The question for me was how much time was I willing to spend to save X number of dollars.  Also, all my add-ons are new.


----------



## addertooth (Aug 8, 2021)

Everyone has a "decision tree" when they purchase.  One of the common trees, is comparing the price of a used classical tool, with the current price of a new tool from Taiwan.  For those who have been watching, the price of the good Taiwan products have been rather markedly marching upwards in the past year.  (The Taiwan Mill I purchased in October of last year, now costs 9.4 percent more today).  This has given some of the older classic tools a bump in price in some markets.  For those (like me), who live in areas where there was no significant fabrication/manufacturing shops, decent tools are scarce... and uniformly overpriced.  Those folks who live in the East/North-East, they have much larger pool of good used equipment which is less than an hour drive way, which is perpetually on the market.


----------



## markba633csi (Aug 8, 2021)

I'm with Tmate, I like the step pulley, short-table versions too.  If'n I was in the market for one
-Mark


----------



## Beckerkumm (Aug 8, 2021)

I've bought over 50 machines, woodworking and metalworking over the past twenty years and about three have been within one hour.  One I overpaid for because i was too lazy to haul something farther away.  New or used, I need to feel warm and fuzzy about the seller.  Anyone who tells me his stuff is perfect I run from.  Guys who will give me details about runout, backlash, wear, etc get some attention.  With new pick a dealer you feel will work with you.  New stuff has risk too.  Machines are mass made to a price point and QC and consistency are everything and sometimes ( often ) lacking.  A Chinese or even Taiwan mill might be accurate and hold settings as well as any but as the price goes down, so do the % of machines that make the grade.  Grizzly gets lots of praise because they deal well with problems, not because they deliver problem fee machinery.

If you need a machine delivered, look at point to point delivery on a flat bed.  Don't let your machine go through a freight terminal once you have paid and accepted risk.  If you can avoid residential delivery, that is good, and if you can avoid lift gate service, even better.  Dave


----------



## Tmate (Aug 8, 2021)

Beckerkumm said:


> If you need a machine delivered, look at point to point delivery on a flat bed. Don't let your machine go through a freight terminal once you have paid and accepted risk. If you can avoid residential delivery, that is good, and if you can avoid lift gate service, even better. Dave



I had mine shipped to a freight terminal, and picked it up on a drop-bed trailer.  Two of us used a pallet jack to move it off the trailer and into my garage.


----------



## sdelivery (Aug 8, 2021)

Look at TAS IRON LTD. Website.
They do great things.


----------



## Beckerkumm (Aug 8, 2021)

I've done the same thing but terminals are still dangerous places for machines.  Here is my drop deck.  I hit a deer with a 9K load.  Pretty exciting and bad for the deer.  Dave


----------



## projectnut (Aug 8, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> I will note that he claims to be including every attachment available for the BP, it is not just the right angle head. It does sound like he is including a lot of tooling as well as a like new Kurt vice which alone could run $450+.
> 
> If you assumed $2800 for the mill, $500 for the vise and $2500 in tooling with $1000 added for negotiating it might not be that overpriced. Of course that all depends on what tooling he actually has and the condition of everything.
> 
> ...


From what I'm reading the vise isn't part of the deal. He mentions he also has 2 vises "for sale".  Here's a quote from the ad.  The semantics are poor, but my interpretation is these vises are not part of the package, but are being sold separately.

*Along with the head and attachments I have an immaculate Kurt vise (not pictured) and an additional vise for sale with oversized jaws.*


----------



## sdelivery (Aug 8, 2021)

The person that shows up with a truck and a pocket full of cash can walk away with it and the other peices for much less.
He probably has had enough "inquiries " that someone who actually comes over prepared to buy can do well.


----------



## Aaron_W (Aug 9, 2021)

projectnut said:


> From what I'm reading the vise isn't part of the deal. He mentions he also has 2 vises "for sale".  Here's a quote from the ad.  The semantics are poor, but my interpretation is these vises are not part of the package, but are being sold separately.
> 
> *Along with the head and attachments I have an immaculate Kurt vise (not pictured) and an additional vise for sale with oversized jaws.*



Yeah there is actually quite a bit of mismatch between what the ad says and what is actually shown in the photos. I took that as he had a second vise available for sale, but yes it is not clear if the the Kurt is part of the deal or not. 

I mostly commented because most of the focus was on what the mill is worth by itself, when the ad suggests there is a lot of tooling for it, and as it often said, it is not hard to spend more on the tooling than on the machine. However having looked more closely through the photos, I'm seeing a bunch endmills and cutters, but not seeing several thousand dollars worth of extras to justify the asking price, and now you point out the vise might not even be part of the deal.


----------



## Cheeseking (Aug 9, 2021)

Mill the OP posted probably $1,500.
The seller needs a reference as. 
what a 7k BP should look like… 















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kb58 (Aug 9, 2021)

When an ad uses terms like "high precision", it speaks volumes.


----------



## mattthemuppet2 (Aug 9, 2021)

I think you're all getting hung up on the $6.8k price. That's for the mill AND the lathe. Take off what he wants for the lathe and the mill comes out about $4k, which is not unreasonable for that area with all that tooling. Don't forget Chelan WA is in the MIDDLE OF NOWHERE in a part of the world where used machine tools command a premium. A very very beautiful middle of nowhere, but still 

If you can get all that tooling and the Kurt vise for $4k, I don't think you will have done too bad at all. People really don't get how much money tooling costs when they start out, but they learn real fast  There's also no way you would get a comparable machine new for that kind of money. I'd give the guy a call, have a chat with him, see where he's at and leave your number. Given that he's time constrained, you may be able to get a decent deal if you don't abuse the situation.


----------



## ErichKeane (Aug 9, 2021)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> I think you're all getting hung up on the $6.8k price. That's for the mill AND the lathe. Take off what he wants for the lathe and the mill comes out about $4k, which is not unreasonable for that area with all that tooling. Don't forget Chelan WA is in the MIDDLE OF NOWHERE in a part of the world where used machine tools command a premium. A very very beautiful middle of nowhere, but still
> 
> If you can get all that tooling and the Kurt vise for $4k, I don't think you will have done too bad at all. People really don't get how much money tooling costs when they start out, but they learn real fast  There's also no way you would get a comparable machine new for that kind of money. I'd give the guy a call, have a chat with him, see where he's at and leave your number. Given that he's time constrained, you may be able to get a decent deal if you don't abuse the situation.



Nope, its not!  From the listing:


> Bridgeport and all tooling $6800 OBO
> 
> South Bend Lathe and original table $2800



As far as the tooling... that is a 'brown paper bag' full, which in my experience tends to be of variable usefulness.  Additionally, it assumes that ALL of that tooling is useful to a buyer.  I find that 'bucket of tooling' sales tend to have a handful of useful things, and a near-full-buckets worth full of 'never gets used'.  I say this as someone who has bought a number of those buckets


----------



## mattthemuppet2 (Aug 9, 2021)

ah, I see, good catch. I just saw the title and the lathe bit at the end, but didn't read the mill bit in the middle 

Then most likely he'll be sitting on it until the day he moves, then he'll have $0. I still think it's worth going round and talking with the seller, leave your number and a price you'd be happy to pay. There's a better than even chance that you'll get a call back.


----------



## kb58 (Aug 9, 2021)

It's good to view "extras" with the same critical eye as the primary machine tool, especially if it's being used to inflate the cost of the package. I bought a lathe that came with "many extras", most of which have since been replaced because they were so worn out. It was almost like the seller added anything they were about to throw out and packaged it with the lathe to drive the price up.


----------



## ErichKeane (Aug 9, 2021)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> ah, I see, good catch. I just saw the title and the lathe bit at the end, but didn't read the mill bit in the middle
> 
> Then most likely he'll be sitting on it until the day he moves, then he'll have $0. I still think it's worth going round and talking with the seller, leave your number and a price you'd be happy to pay. There's a better than even chance that you'll get a call back.



IMO, $1500 for the mill is probably about right, the mill itself is in so-so shape best I can tell.  The pile of tooling is a mix of rusty and less-usable tooling (how many 1" tool holders do you need?  Do you really want to buy 1" mills, instead of just an insert face mill/fly cutter?).  The right-angle head is 'valuable', but I'm not sure I've really ever had a situation where I'd want/need one.  So I think if I REALLY wanted a bridgeport, I might suck it up and go $2500-$3000, but $6800 is nuts.  That said, no DRO and no x-axis power feed would dissuade me from doing that anyway.

Also, the 'visible flaking' at the ends-of-travel is always a hilarious picture to me.  My millrite had that flaking, but also had a significant dip in the middle.  Show me the ways in the middle, where it actually gets used!


----------



## Cheeseking (Aug 9, 2021)

Ad is pretty clear the mill is $6,800 and the lathe is $2,800
Not $6,800 for both.
From the photos posted I can almost assure you it’s a dirty run of the mill step pulley antique. $1,500 max. Also would leave the boxes of mostly junk tooling and buy specifically what you need elsewhere.


----------



## mattthemuppet2 (Aug 9, 2021)

hey guys, not my mill or my money. I lived in SE Washington state for 3 years, it's a machinery desert. The idea of being able to get a BP for $1500 from someone who isn't a relative or a friend is laughable. Getting one for $3k with any sort of tooling will take some time and looking. But again, not my money and the OP can take whatever course he sees fit.


----------



## pontiac428 (Aug 9, 2021)

If the OP comes back to this thread, I'd tell him to hold off as well.  I watched and waited in the Washington State Machinery Desert and won the lottery with a rarely-used Lagun FTV-3 that I got on auction just 3 or 4 miles from my house for $1600.  They're out there.  My advice for this area is to find the auction houses that liquidate business assets between Seattle and Portland.  Ehli Auctions is one of them.  They come up a few times a year, and sometimes people just can't seem to get the time, cash, and trailer to appear at the right place on the right day, and a lot of good equipment ends up left on the floor for the scrapper at the end.


----------



## ErichKeane (Aug 9, 2021)

pontiac428 said:


> If the OP comes back to this thread, I'd tell him to hold off as well.  I watched and waited in the Washington State Machinery Desert and won the lottery with a rarely-used Lagun FTV-3 that I got on auction just 3 or 4 miles from my house for $1600.  They're out there.  My advice for this area is to find the auction houses that liquidate business assets between Seattle and Portland.  Ehli Auctions is one of them.  They come up a few times a year, and sometimes people just can't seem to get the time, cash, and trailer to appear at the right place on the right day, and a lot of good equipment ends up left on the floor for the scrapper at the end.



I got a buddy out on the gorge that makes decent money running a trailer from central Oregon to the Portland area and back to buy the less expensive valley machines and selling them out near him!

If you keep an eye out and are willing to drive a bit, deals are to be had!

Interestingly, the guy who started Ehli auctions is my best friends FIL! He sold out a few years back after getting it off the ground.


----------



## pontiac428 (Aug 9, 2021)

Ehli moves an incredible amount of useful stuff for the home shop.  Liquidations have not stopped for COVID, but it appears from watching their site that buyers have slowed down, leaving some incredible deals.  They've merged with some other liquidators, one in the Portland area (Portland has a lot more machinery available than Seattle, unless you're after coffee roasting equipment).  I just missed out on a few surface grinders that came up in Portland via Ehli.  Snoozing and losing, what a regret!


----------



## Beckerkumm (Aug 9, 2021)

That Lagun is one sweet deal.  Is it R8 or NST 40 ?  Dave


----------



## pontiac428 (Aug 9, 2021)

It's R8.  It's all cleaned up and running off of a 5 hp RPC.  I spent the last two weekends working on the DRO install.  I love that machine, especially after years of pushing the limits with my old RF-30!  The FTV-3 weighs more than a BP Series 2 by about 700 lbs.  It's a big one.


----------



## Beckerkumm (Aug 9, 2021)

I think the original Series 2 weighed in the 4500+ range.  The special or later BP 2 were smaller and lighter and had the lighter head.  Yours looks like it is in the 3500 range which is a nice heft for an R8 machine.  Lagun had wide tables which are nice.  Dave


----------



## pontiac428 (Aug 9, 2021)

It's 4700 lbs, and I nearly killed myself unloading it off of the trailer.  Like, literally.  Don't fool with mass, it always wins.


----------



## Tmate (Aug 9, 2021)

And I thought 2,000 lbs. was tough!


----------



## ErichKeane (Aug 9, 2021)

Tmate said:


> And I thought 2,000 lbs. was tough!


I seem to have a habit of buying heavy tools   my current mill is my lightest in the shop at about 4000, my surface grinder and lathe are both 5k+, and my shaper is 9k+!


----------



## hman (Aug 9, 2021)

@Just for fun - Have you looked at this one?  A Supermax, going for $1500 ...








						SuperMax Manual milling machine - $1,500 (Lebanon, OR) Near Corvallis, OR
					

https://corvallis.craigslist.org/tls/d/lebanon-supermax-manual-milling-machine/7348648481.html  Works great, although currently not under power. No tooling or vice. Cat 50 spindle. Moved to make room for CNC. Have forklift onsite to load. Available weekdays til 5pm, weekends by appointment only...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


----------



## Beckerkumm (Aug 9, 2021)

Impressive.  I don't think Lagun makes a vertical mill that heavy anymore.  The old FTV4 was in that range too.

I've tipped over a couple of machines and it is like watching in slow motion and being helpless.  The 6K Rambaudi was scary with my old Towmotor so I understand the butt clench.   The Moore was scary due to the heavy top and what seems like an undersized bottom- bad for machines.  Dave


----------



## Beckerkumm (Aug 9, 2021)

Op should add Wells Index to the list.  They had a good head and maybe a tad heavier than the BP 1.  Company is still in business so parts and support are very good.  Dave


----------



## Just for fun (Aug 11, 2021)

Thanks for the link John,

But when reality sets in I need to stick with a smaller unit.   I'm think a bench type mill like a PM-833TV.


----------



## ErichKeane (Aug 11, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> Thanks for the link John,
> 
> But when reality sets in I need to stick with a smaller unit.   I'm think a bench type mill like a PM-833TV.


You might think about one of the 2/3-size machines, like a Millrite.  They are still knee mills, so have a great capacity, but are significantly smaller. They are typically 8" by 32-36" tables, so quite a bit smaller.  The nice part is they tend to have the sames heads/functionality/similar rigidity to a full-size bridgeport, but are a smaller size!

PM has the 835S (https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-835smill/) which might be a great fit!  Its about $1000 more than the 833TV, but the head improvements alone would be worth it IMO.


----------



## hman (Aug 11, 2021)

+1 on the 835S ... especially if you add the power drawbar.  I've had mine for nearly a year now, and love it.  But it does take up more space than the 833TV would.  The 833TV is made in Taiwan, so quality is likely to be pretty good.  On the 835S, the head is from Taiwan and the base from mainland China.


----------

