# CNC Conversion Kits ?



## papermaker

I just ordered a Little Machine Shop Mini Mill yesterday! I will be adding a CNC kit to it in the near future and I'm curious what other people have used for a kit. It looks like you can spend any amount of money on one and just want to get the best value for money!


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## pws

I am in the process of fitting a Grizzly Mini (X2) with a LMS Large Table and CNC.

So far, I am quite pleased with the items I have from the following:

CNC Fusion - Ball Screw conversion kits and accessories
AutomationTechnologies - Steppers, G540, Power Supply, etc
Mesa 6i25 Anything I/O Interface [Parallel Port Replacement] 

Seem to be very good quality and have been a pleasure to work with.

I am focusing on the Large Table first and have the Ball Screw kits and steppers all in place.  I originally put this together with a [quite] old PC that had a Parallel port, and both axes were working fine with it but it was a little TOO old - HUGE jitter and other things - so I decided to go the other extreme and build a new system:

- ASUS F2A85-V PRO FM2 AMD A85X  Motherboard
- AMD A10-5800K Trinity 3.8GHz (4.2GHz Turbo) Socket FM2 100W Quad-Core Desktop APU (Radeon 7000 GPU)
- G.SKILL Sniper Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM
- WD Velociraptor 300G 10KRPM Drive
- Mesa 6i25 Anything I/O

I decided to give LinuxCNC a wholehearted chance, and am currently in the process of trying to get the X and Y working with the new system.  Things are very different going from the Parallel Port to the Anything I/O so judgement is still out on the new system configuration - but I am sure the mechanics and driving electronics are assembled correctly and work fine so I can focus on the software.

Spring has sprung, so this project now may have to take a back seat to the outside world - but I will still give it attention whenever I can!


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## Scorpion

I used a Centroid CNC conversion with all of the hard parts from Elrod Machine (http://www.elrodmachine.com) on my Kent knee about 8 years ago.  It was fairly easy to do and has worked out well.  Elrod has some nice upgrades too like rigid tapping using a spindle indexer.  Ice used it for production rubs without issue thus far.  Now it's hobby only.


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## 7HC

papermaker said:


> I just ordered a Little Machine Shop Mini Mill yesterday! I will be adding a CNC kit to it in the near future and I'm curious what other people have used for a kit. It looks like you can spend any amount of money on one and just want to get the best value for money!



Best value will probably be to purchase the CNC Conversion plans from Little Machine Shop themselves, then spend some time sourcing the necessary parts on the internet and eBay.
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2353&category=879658189
　
M


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## Bhouin

papermaker said:


> I just ordered a Little Machine Shop Mini Mill yesterday! I will be adding a CNC kit to it in the near future and I'm curious what other people have used for a kit. It looks like you can spend any amount of money on one and just want to get the best value for money!


Pagemaker, 
I have the LMS mill that I have converted to CNC. I used a CNCFusion kit with ballscrews and nuts.  For the CNC driver I am using the HobbyCNC 4axis setup with the largest steppers that they offer. If you are not interested in assembling the board (which isn't all that hard) then take a look at the Gecko G540 4axis drive board. I am using Mach 3 as my machine driver software and highly recommend it. I have been using a combination of AlibreCAM and Alibre CAD for 3d design and TurboCAD and DolphinCAM for 2D. 
FYI, I know that a lot of people really swear by the G540 board. I am actually building up a setup to drive my 7x14 lathe at the moment so I can compare them. I have had no issues with the HobbyCNC board in either my router or my mill. 
Please let me know if there is anything that I can help you with. I am no expert and learning myself but am willing to provide any insight that I can. 
Regards,
Bob


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## Rick Leslie

The only conversion I've done was a little bitty Sherline 5000 mill. I found a seller on ebay and emailed hundreds of questions over several months before committing. This guy was responsive, helpful and courteous all the while not knowing if he had a customer or not. Here's a link to the conversion with all the info included. I haven't had time to post the build here yet. And I'm still learning the ins and outs of Mach 3, but I feel I've got a good little machine now, "little" being the operative word.

Build: http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=37770.0

Store:http://stores.ebay.com/HUBBARD-CNC-INC

Email:brenthub@comcast.net

Hope this helps.


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## papermaker

Bhouin said:


> Pagemaker,
> I have the LMS mill that I have converted to CNC. I used a CNCFusion kit with ballscrews and nuts.  For the CNC driver I am using the HobbyCNC 4axis setup with the largest steppers that they offer. If you are not interested in assembling the board (which isn't all that hard) then take a look at the Gecko G540 4axis drive board. I am using Mach 3 as my machine driver software and highly recommend it. I have been using a combination of AlibreCAM and Alibre CAD for 3d design and TurboCAD and DolphinCAM for 2D.
> FYI, I know that a lot of people really swear by the G540 board. I am actually building up a setup to drive my 7x14 lathe at the moment so I can compare them. I have had no issues with the HobbyCNC board in either my router or my mill.
> Please let me know if there is anything that I can help you with. I am no expert and learning myself but am willing to provide any insight that I can.
> Regards,
> Bob


Thanks Bob ! I 'm sure there will be plenty of questions once I get started.  The mill arrive to the freight terminal and can be picked up tomorrow and electronics should be here tomorrow as well. I still need to order the ball screw conversion which I plan on using CNCFusion's kit.
I still need to build a bench fo the machine so there will be plenty to do prior to digging into the machine conversion. I cant wait to get started.


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## papermaker

i got my mill on Monday and the electronics arrived yesterday. I guess I should go ahead and order the ballscrew conversion now. As far as assembling the electronics it looks pretty straight forward. I got my kit from Probotix and they have a real good manual on their website that shows the wiring diagram very cleary.
They recommend that a heat sink be added to the drivers for chip protection. but it doesn't show how it is attached. Anyone have any thoughts. I plan on housing all of the electronics inside a metal tool box and having a computer fan attached to the box to circulate air around the components.

I'm sure that I'll have more questions along the way !


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## 7HC

papermaker said:


> i got my mill on Monday and the electronics arrived yesterday. I guess I should go ahead and order the ballscrew conversion now. As far as assembling the electronics it looks pretty straight forward. I got my kit from Probotix and they have a real good manual on their website that shows the wiring diagram very cleary.
> They recommend that a heat sink be added to the drivers for chip protection. but it doesn't show how it is attached. Anyone have any thoughts. I plan on housing all of the electronics inside a metal tool box and having a computer fan attached to the box to circulate air around the components.
> 
> I'm sure that I'll have more questions along the way !



Advice on attaching the heatsinks to the drivers would be easier to give if you could provide a pic of the drivers.
Also, cooling will be more efficient if rather than just circulating air inside the cabinet, you provide ventilation holes at the bottom to allow cool air to enter, and mount your fan at the top to draw the cool air up and over the drivers and power supply, then out of the cabinet.                  ....................M


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## papermaker

I looked the motor drivers over and figured out the issue of attaching the heat sink. Things were moving along pretty good until I figured out that I don't have a parallel port on my laptop. I had to send the breakout board back to exchange it for one with a USB port. I'm planning on mounting the fan on one end of the box and cutting a hole of equal size in the other end covered with a vinyl coated steel mesh to keep the critters out.
The ballscrews from CNCFusion have been ordered and waiting for delivery.


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## Hawkeye

Make sure you use silicon grease any time you're mounting electronics on a heat sink. This allows better heat transfer than bolting it on dry.

Also, confirm that you aren't creating a short circuit between parts. The mounting tab on electronic components is commonly connected to one of the terminal 'legs'.


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## papermaker

Well the USPS got me on the breakout board that I was returning for credit toward a USB board.  Their tracking shows it left the mail facility on the 16th of May and never to be seen again I guess.ThankfullyI was  smart enough I insure it.
Anyway the tracking on the new board staes that it will arrive Tuesday and the ballscrew conversion from CNCFusion is suppose to arrive tomorrow  afternoon.
Should able to get started on the conversion this coming week.Hopefully!


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## geotek

Just as well.  Mach3 documentation makes it pretty clear using a laptop computer is not recommended when using the parallel port.  Laptops generally have power saving electronics that shut down the parallel port when not sending data.  Since the parallel port is not used through a normal printer driver, and is not sending printer data, it tends to shutdown when running Mach3.  The USB port should solve that.
The Probotix boards are not heat sink friendly.  The ideal thing would be to screw the driver modules to an aluminum bar, but that won't be easy because of their layout.  
I have built several shop-friendly systems.  I found it works quite well if you use a fan to pressurize the electronics enclosure.  On the outside of the cabinet, on the suction side of the fan, install an automotive type air filter.  This will allow the fan to pressurize the cabinet with clean air.


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## Hawkeye

Another issue with Mach3 and laptops is that laptops are designed to save power by hibernating or switching to screen saver. Either will interrupt a CNC run. The best (read required) setup is a dedicated desktop computer with screensaver and power management shut off, no internet connection and no other programs running.


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## 7HC

Hawkeye said:


> Another issue with Mach3 and laptops is that laptops are designed to save power by hibernating or switching to screen saver. Either will interrupt a CNC run. The best (read required) setup is a dedicated desktop computer with screensaver and power management shut off, no internet connection and no other programs running.



No argument there, and if there's no internet connection there's no need to have an anti-virus program running either.
AV programs do an awful lot of constant background checking which uses memory and CPU cycles.

On another note, I did a little experimenting and found that Mach3, eMachineshop, and D2Nc will all run on Virtual XP in Win7, but you  must be running in 32bit (x86) and not 64 bit (x64).

M


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## papermaker

Bhouin said:


> Pagemaker,
> I have the LMS mill that I have converted to CNC. I used a CNCFusion kit with ballscrews and nuts.  For the CNC driver I am using the HobbyCNC 4axis setup with the largest steppers that they offer. If you are not interested in assembling the board (which isn't all that hard) then take a look at the Gecko G540 4axis drive board. I am using Mach 3 as my machine driver software and highly recommend it. I have been using a combination of AlibreCAM and Alibre CAD for 3d design and TurboCAD and DolphinCAM for 2D.
> FYI, I know that a lot of people really swear by the G540 board. I am actually building up a setup to drive my 7x14 lathe at the moment so I can compare them. I have had no issues with the HobbyCNC board in either my router or my mill.
> Please let me know if there is anything that I can help you with. I am no expert and learning myself but am willing to provide any insight that I can.
> Regards,
> Bob


Bob thanks for the offer. I too went with the CNCFusion ballscrew conversion that went together pretty well. The electronics are from Probotix and look good. Just waiting for some connectors to wire the stepper motors. Mach 3 here also. I will have plenty of questions once I'm ready to power up!


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## papermaker

I thought that I'd post some pictures of what I've done so far on the electronic. I still need to finish the wiring for the X,Y and Z motor feeds and the USB jack to the outside of the box.


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## jimemack

Hawkeye said:


> Another issue with Mach3 and laptops is that laptops are designed to save power by hibernating or switching to screen saver. Either will interrupt a CNC run. The best (read required) setup is a dedicated desktop computer with screensaver and power management shut off, no internet connection and no other programs running.



This is simply not true! I have had a dedicated laptop for my setup with no problems. All you have to do is configure the hardware and Windows not to use the power-save features or screen savers - a simple matter - and use the AC adapter when running Mach3. This way, you can take the laptop with you and create the designs while watching TV, then carry it back out to the garage when it's time to cut. Laptops are quite powerful these days and can handle any aspect of Mach3 that any desktop PC can. There is no reason to make an unnecessary investment in a desktop PC that's not really needed.

In my opinion, a laptop is the best setup.

Jim


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## papermaker

I have taken my laptop out of power save mode and shut off the screen savers. I keep an AC adaptor connected . We will probably put it to the test on Monday or Tuesday!


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## 7HC

jimemack said:


> This is simply not true! I have had a dedicated laptop for my setup with no problems. All you have to do is configure the hardware and Windows not to use the power-save features or screen savers - a simple matter - and use the AC adapter when running Mach3. This way, you can take the laptop with you and create the designs while watching TV, then carry it back out to the garage when it's time to cut. Laptops are quite powerful these days and can handle any aspect of Mach3 that any desktop PC can. There is no reason to make an unnecessary investment in a desktop PC that's not really needed.
> 
> In my opinion, a laptop is the best setup.
> 
> Jim



As you say, easy to configure, just customize the power management on AC to never shut down the screen or hard drive, and to do nothing when you close the lid.

However, the big disadvantage modern laptops have for use with Mach3, is that they rarely come with a parallel (or printer) port.

An advantage the desktop has, is that a used one that's quite capable of running Mach3 can be bought for very little money and can be a permanent part of the CNC installation.

Nothing wrong with using a laptop though, and it does have the advantage of having a screen attached.

M


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## jimemack

7HC said:


> However, the big disadvantage modern laptops have for use with Mach3, is that they rarely come with a parallel (or printer) port.
> 
> An advantage the desktop has, is that a used one that's quite capable of running Mach3 can be bought for very little money and can be a permanent part of the CNC installation.
> M



I would challenge you to find _any_ new PC - laptop or desktop - that comes with a parallel port. The days of the parallel port are over for any computer, as that technology has been surpassed and replaced by the USB port. Also, for thiose who insist, there are still many used laptops for sale that have parallel ports, although I would not waste my time, energy or money on one myself.

I, instead,  purchased a converter that gets me over all of that, called the 'UC100', and is available from CNC4PC for $129.00. No more do I have to worry about tracking down a PC with a parallel port. I also don't have to worry about replacing any of my breakout boards, as the UC100 has a DB25 connector on one end and a USB connector on the other. It works very well and is designed especially for Mach3. This was $129.99 well spent.

Jim


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## papermaker

This morning I got brave and thought that I would put power to my new system. After I tried unsuccessfully to configure the software I contacted Probotix and discovered that with the PBX-USB board I can't use Mach 3 according to them. So against my better judgment I bought what I thought was their software. I finally got the activation code this afternoon and attempted to install it . After several attempts to get loaded I was about to give them a call. After 5pm no tech service. I'm really getting frustrated with the whole thing. I thought that hobbies were suppose to be relaxing and not stressful. Well maybe tomorrow.


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## jimemack

I am sorry to hear about your misfortunes. I don't have any advice to offer either, as far as fixing them, since I'm not familiar with either the hardware or software you are using. I will say, however, that I am really surprised that Mach3 won't work, given how open that platform is. The configuration options seem limitless to me, but Probotix knows more about their product than I do.

Can you return it and get your money back? You should have a grace period of 15 days, or more. If you can, that's the right thing to do, or else (I can feel it in my bones) it will be nickel-and-diming you to death. I purchased all cheap Chinese hardware and was able to get everything to work quickly and accurately.

I have a five axis breakout board that works like a charm with Mach3. Mach3 is what will be driving this hobby for some time, so it will benefit you to switch while your losses are minimal, rather than wait until you've invested a huge amount of time and money into a less-than-satisfactory system.

Just my 2¢

Good Luck,
Jim


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## papermaker

Thanks for that information Jim. I tend to agree with you. I'm at the point where I will dig out one of the old computers that we have and dedicate that strictly to CNC. That's what I should have done to start with. Like I have said this a hobby and is suppose be fun and relaxing. So far It has been a very stressful endeavor.


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## jimemack

Here is what I purchased - use it as a guideline, not necessarily a shopping list. I have a Grizzly 8689, which is similar to your mill:

Breakout Board:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300883814426?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Driver:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251224738311

Microstep Driver:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/M542H-CNC-S...729?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d3f461ba1

Motor, 282 oz-in:
http://www.automationtechnologiesin...r-quarter-inch-dual-shaft-with-flat-282-oz-in

Motor, 425 oz-in:
http://www.automationtechnologiesin...stepper-motor-425-oz-in-14”-shaft-with-a-flat

USB-to-Parallel Interface (UC100): <--- very good product
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/index.php?cPath=93

These all work well and are easy to interface and set up with Mach3.

Good luck to you.

Jim


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## jimemack

Notice no one has come back with a negative opinion about my setup? The reason is that everyone is afraid to experiment with Chinese products; therefore, they can't come back with any opinion. I built a $20,000 machine shop that is over 90% Chinese precision equipment and I LOVE IT!!!!

Their products are all high quality, just not long-lasting. That means they will be good for the average hobbyist, whose demands are modest, but lousy for the commercial production team, whose demands will far outweigh the tradeoffs necessary to produce these little mechanical miracles.

PERIOD.


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## stupoty

jimemack said:


> I would challenge you to find _any_ new PC - laptop or desktop - that comes with a parallel port. The days of the parallel port are over for any computer, as that technology has been surpassed and replaced by the USB port. Also, for thiose who insist, there are still many used laptops for sale that have parallel ports, although I would not waste my time, energy or money on one myself.
> 
> I, instead,  purchased a converter that gets me over all of that, called the 'UC100', and is available from CNC4PC for $129.00. No more do I have to worry about tracking down a PC with a parallel port. I also don't have to worry about replacing any of my breakout boards, as the UC100 has a DB25 connector on one end and a USB connector on the other. It works very well and is designed especially for Mach3. This was $129.99 well spent.
> 
> Jim



Maybe , maybe not, i think it will probably keep hanging on in their like rs23,2 rs485, bar codes can bus and all thouse other spacific kind of interfaces, the latency achivable with the ecp port is awsome, you would almost certainly need a dedicated pci card to match it.  

For example USB dosnt have interupts, this is the only way for hardware to tell the pc that it needs the cpu, usb is polled.

I think definetly for the hobbiest who probably isn't going to be swapping between systems and wants to find a cheep way in its still quite aplicable

I do agree that if your trying to multi role a pc you have their may be issues with parrallel port availability and the usb options may proove very good.

Stuart

ps , love the tool box electronics enclosure


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## Rick Leslie

Sorry to hear about the problems and frustration you're encountering with this build. My hardware (Chinese) went together without a hitch and it powered up and ran perfectly. I heeded the warnings of the laptop/USB port use and used a very cheap PC that uses XP as the operating system. Once I became familiar with the software calibration and (still learning) Mach 3, I was ready to cut metal. I did have some times during the learning process when I was ready to chunk the whole works and go back to my manual mill, but when I do my part, the little machine is really fun and well worth the time and trouble.

I think going to a dedicated PC to get the system up and running would be your best bet in the long run. Once you are familiar with the system as a whole, you can experiment with laptops and USB ports and the like. 

I hope you get the system running soon as it's a lot of fun.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and I too love the tool box idea. You can even use the top tray for small tools. )  Good luck and keep at it. It's well worth the time and trouble.


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## papermaker

Jimemac, I like you breakout board with the remote...I assume you have the remote!? I also like the USB to parallel port interface._I may need to order one of each_


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## jimemack

papermaker said:


> Jimemac, I like you breakout board with the remote...I assume you have the remote!? I also like the USB to parallel port interface._I may need to order one of each_



I have the remote.

I don't think you can go wrong ordering both of those items.

Mach3 takes some time to undrstand and set up, but, since I've already done that work with this hardware, you can tap my brain for help.

Jim


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## Hawkeye

Jim, nobody's going to slam you here for using off-shore equipment. I have two Chinese mills and one British, and an Australian lathe. If we were only 'allowed' to use domestic machines and parts, we'd all have to do something else to have fun. Most of the CNC conversions on this forum use at least some imported parts (if not all).


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## jimemack

Hawkeye said:


> Jim, nobody's going to slam you here for using off-shore equipment.



Who said anything about slamming? I'm not sure what you're talking about.


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## papermaker

Hey Jimemack, I certainly will have questions when I get things ready to go and will call on you for help.


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## Hawkeye

jimemack said:


> Notice no one has come back with a negative opinion about my setup? The reason is that everyone is afraid to experiment with Chinese products; therefore, they can't come back with any opinion. I built a $20,000 machine shop that is over 90% Chinese precision equipment and I LOVE IT!!!!
> 
> Their products are all high quality, just not long-lasting. That means they will be good for the average hobbyist, whose demands are modest, but lousy for the commercial production team, whose demands will far outweigh the tradeoffs necessary to produce these little mechanical miracles.
> 
> PERIOD.



I was assuming you were expecting to get negative opinions about your setup. You went on to comment that "everyone is afraid to experiment with Chinese products". Just pointing out that a lot of people here use offshore stuff and won't be getting too negative about it.


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## jimemack

Hawkeye said:


> I was assuming you were expecting to get negative opinions about your setup. .



No, not at all. I believe it's the best strategy for a beginner, given the fact that we don't really know where we want to wind up. I'm just encouraging everyone not to get caught up in the "best equipment" thing until they've done some serious CNC cutting. I still have not completely built my system yet, but have tested all of the electronics and all seems well. I am now going to manually machine the CNC parts and see what happens.


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## westmc45

I bought a CNC Fusion Kit for my LMS Mini Mill and would never buy anything from them again. I have been waiting over two months for them to replace my x ballscrew. I told them how to fix the problem and they said I would get a replacemet over a month ago. They only answer the email like once a week if your lucky, I now have a mini mill I cant use till they send me a new part. If you are thinking of getting a kit from them beware your in for a suprise, and if you do not have the mechnical skills to modify your mill your out of luck because the parts are not made to just "plug and play" you have to do some grinding for every part. I have a Probotix kit that works the x,y and z axis. I can not say enough good things for the Probotix set up it works very well and the Tech support people always were there to help. On the other hand CNC FUSION ----------------> RUN AWAY and dont buy from them....................


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## jumps4

I have built 6 cnc machines myself and helped a few people here build theirs and everything has been Chinese. they all work well with no lack of performance. to convert to usb I use the uc100 from cnc4pc and the manufacture has great tech support. I would not us a uc100 on a lathe though it wont thread. but for that matter mach3 is hard to get set up to thread correctly. It takes the right version and a fussy setup.
 the only Chinese controller part I would say to not us is the tb6560, it is unreliable and loves to go poof for no reason. I have 2 of them working on my sherline mill and lathe but they could stop working at any time for no reason.
steve


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## bloomingtonmike

The cnc routers I have built (4X4 sized teel and alum machines) have all used G540 Geckos. I really like them. Typically nema23 3.5amp steppers. I usually order from Ahren at cncrouterparts or from Dan Mauch.

Recently I have begun a Millport 1630 retrofit knee mill and am using the Ajax AllinOneDC for the 29inch servo control. It seems really nice in the short time I have been bench testing it. 

Typically I use mach and have not bought centroid cnc11 full unlock yet (as I own the Mach license already) but it may be on the list.


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