# Another new owner of a VN 12



## Wilde Racing (Feb 24, 2013)

I just replaced my Taiwan JET-16 Drill mill with this beauty..










It needs a lot of cleaning and some work but I think I made a good choice.

The Old Drill/mill....




Getting it home was a lot of fun.....


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## Tamper84 (Feb 25, 2013)

Very nice!!! I like it


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## HMF (Feb 25, 2013)

NICE!!

What year? If you don't know give me the serial number and I will tell you the year.

Now that my kid's cancer is in remission and the weather will be breaking soon, I will be working on mine again.
First step is to make a new index pin between the column and base to replace the one I broke dismanteling it.

Any questions, this is the place to ask.


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## Wilde Racing (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks guys,

Nelson, I'm sorry to hear about the family health problems.

I believe the mill is an early 1944 as the serial number is a 12-7683?

I was able to do a little more work. So far the only thing that doesn't seam to work is the table feed lever. tonight I pulled the lever and found it was missing the pin and had allowed the shaft to rotate. Easy fix. 

I'm now at a cross roads. What do I do from here? Should I pull the mill completely down going through everything and paint it? Should I pull just the stuff that needs maintenance and use it? Is there anything else I need to watch for? ll the gears look good in the transmission.

Also any suggestions on cleaning products? Engine degrease is working o.k....


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## ScubaSteve (Feb 26, 2013)

Wow...looking really nice! Mechanically, it looks really good. I'd probably clean the oil passages, etc. and just keep the major assemblies separate. No need to *really* take it apart...that's just asking for a headache....besides, you might damage something along the way. 

I'm in the midst of my refurbishment of a VN12....I have the column stripped down to bare metal and will do the same for the ram, etc. Then I'll fill, prime, and paint.....or maybe I'll skip the filler, since it is such a PITA. 

At any rate, it shouldn't be too hard to strip and repaint...that gets my vote. Be sure to post your progress....this forum seems to be the main one for all things VN12......


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## Dan (Feb 26, 2013)

Great Machine! I love mine, I like the war finish decal, I have a US Navy property lable on mine. For me it's function is important before beauty, get it running first then worry about paint. Are you going to move the DRO's over to this one from your Jet?

Don't retire your jet yet, it has a quill this one doesn't,


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## Wilde Racing (Feb 27, 2013)

I had to sell the jet to fund this project. I just ordered a cheap glass scale set-up and a vfd. I guess the plan is to pull the table and knee, clean up the gibs and and tables and reassemble. I'll also replace the oil in bothe gear boxes. Speaking of gear boxes, anyone have a line on the small site glass? Mine are bothe cracked.


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## ScubaSteve (Feb 27, 2013)

Search around on this forum...there have been a few threads on the sight glass. +1 to keeping the mill/drill....but I kinda assumed you sold it when you upgraded. FWIW, it looked to be in good shape. Might have come in handy to make a straightedge for scraping the VN12 into accuracy.


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## Cal Haines (Feb 27, 2013)

Wilde Racing said:


> ... I guess the plan is to pull the table and knee, clean up the gibs and and tables and reassemble. I'll also replace the oil in bothe gear boxes. ...


Do you mean pull the table and saddle?  Pulling the knee is also a good idea if the table and saddle show signs of poor maintenance.  There's no provision to supply oil to the knee's vertical way and krud tends to build up in the cavity on the back of the knee.  I would suggest flushing the ram and feed gearbox with kerosene and filling with fresh oil.  The cutter-head should also be flushed and filled with new oil and the rear bearing greased.  Don't take the cutter-head apart unless there is a good reason to do so.

Post a photo of your cutter-head so that I can see which one you have.

_Cal_


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## Wilde Racing (Mar 1, 2013)

What part of the cutter head are you talking about?


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## Cal Haines (Mar 1, 2013)

Wilde Racing said:


> What part of the cutter head are you talking about?


I'm not sure what you're asking.  I would like to see a photo of your cutter-head so that I can tell which one you have.  There is an oil reservoir in the cutter-head that needs to be flushed and filled.  Depending on the model of the cutter-head, the front bearing may be lubricated from the oil reservoir or lubricated with grease; either way, the bearings need to be cleaned and greased if they are of that type.  This should be done without disassembling the spindle.

_Cal_


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## Wilde Racing (Mar 1, 2013)

Here are the pictures of the cutter head..


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## ScubaSteve (Mar 1, 2013)

Yours is pretty darn similar to mine (even down to the crappy paint! LOL)....I opened the access cover just to put an eyeball on things....it uses grease (also has grease fittings for each bearing...but that doesn't always mean much).


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## ScubaSteve (Mar 1, 2013)

Cal Haines said:


> Depending on the model of the cutter-head, the front bearing may be lubricated from the oil reservoir or lubricated with grease; either way, the bearings need to be cleaned and greased if they are of that type.  This should be done without disassembling the spindle.
> 
> _Cal_



Cal, how do you recommend doing this? With grease fittings, I'm unsure of how to get kerosene or similar solvents in there to flush things out.....

I imagine I could try to "wash it out" from the inside, but I fear I'd push more crap into the bearings.


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## Wilde Racing (Mar 1, 2013)

ScubaSteve said:


> Yours is pretty darn similar to mine (even down to the crappy paint! LOL)....I opened the access cover just to put an eyeball on things....it uses grease (also has grease fittings for each bearing...but that doesn't always mean much).




I believe mine uses oil, but I'm not sure. They look the same minus the grease fittings.


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## Cal Haines (Mar 1, 2013)

Wilde Racing said:


> Here are the pictures of the cutter head..
> 
> 
> 
> ...





ScubaSteve said:


> Yours is pretty darn similar to mine (even down  to the crappy paint! LOL)....I opened the access cover just to put an  eyeball on things....it uses grease (also has grease fittings for each  bearing...but that doesn't always mean much).


Actually these are two different generations of cutter head.  Steve's is the first generation head.  Note how the two clamp bolts on the bottom are exposed.  On the later generation cutter-heads the front clamp bolts are enclosed in cored holes in the casting.  Both of these heads have front and rear bearings that are lubricated by grease.  W's has grease cups instead of Zerk fittings; I believe this is the type where the operator is supposed to give the cup's cap a twist every so often to force a bit of grease into the bearings.

The center cavity is where the ring and pinion gears are.  They are lubricated with OIL.  W, if your cutter-head is packed with grease, that's a problem.  You need to clean it out and replace it with gear oil.  Mobile DTE Heavy-Medium should be fine and is what you need in the ram and feed gearboxes as well.

On both styles of cutter-head there are front and rear bearing retainer caps/plates that are held on with socket-head cap screws.  Pull the bearing retainer plates off and you can clean and flush the bearings.

One thing to be aware of is that there is no grease seal to keep grease from the rear bearing from getting into the center reservoir and contaminating the oil that lubricates the ring and pinion gear.  Over the life of these machines over zealous maintenance workers often pump so much grease into the rear bearing that it gets forced into the center reservoir; not good.

Some guys go nuts trying to find the grease used in the 1940s.  Trust me, if modern greases were available back then, they wouldn't have used the grease that they did.  I use Mobilith SHC 100 grease for the spindle bearings.  It's far superior to the greases available when these machines were new and you can use it to lube the motor bearings (assuming they are that type).  It's a good idea to pull the bearing retainer caps and clean out any  excess grease every second or third time you grease the bearings.

The easiest way to service the cutter-head is to remove it from the ram.  The best way is to do that is to use a collet in the spindle to grip a section of round bar.  Turn the spindle vertical and bring the table and vise up to the bottom of the spindle, so that the vise supports the end of the spindle.  Clamp the other end of the bar in the vise and crank the table to the left as you back off the clamp bolts, jacking the cutter-head away from the ram.

With the cutter head off of the machine you can flush the bearings from the ends.  I like to use a recirculating pump to recycle kerosene and power flush.  You can use an automotive inline fuel filter to keep from circulating debris back into the bearings.  Use fresh kerosene for your final flushes.

_Cal_


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## Wilde Racing (Mar 1, 2013)

BTW Steve I see my daughter's bike in the background of your picture...

Cal thanks for the information. I guess I'll add head flush and cleaning to my long list of stuff to do.


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## ScubaSteve (Mar 2, 2013)

Man, I was waiting for that!:rofl:  I guess the secret is out....I'm not a professional...LOL. Just an old iron aficionado. 

Cal, thanks for that GREAT info. I will be moving in a few months, and currently have the machine broken down into its major assemblies. I will probably not repaint before moving it, since it is likely to get some dings en route....but I will definitely clean, flush, and relube so that it is in prime condition when I get it back together. 

I'm digging this thread!


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## Wilde Racing (Mar 3, 2013)

A little update, I found a very broken and repaired lead screw support and the table has a small chuck missing around the bolt hole...








i also decided I don't have time to do a full cleaning and repaint at this time so the plan is clean, lube, wire and then mill stuff... Here is the progress so far, the knee saddle and table are back on and the cutter head had no oil in it, it looks ok so here is hoping the oil leaked out after the machine had been taken out of service.


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## Cal Haines (Mar 3, 2013)

Wilde Racing said:


> A little update, I found a very broken and repaired lead screw support and the table has a small chuck missing around the bolt hole...
> 
> ... the cutter head had no oil in it, it looks ok so here is hoping the oil leaked out after the machine had been taken out of service.


The table right end brackets seem to get broken on the majority of No. 12s.  I bet it's because the table is power fed to the left, running the bracket into the saddle.  I note that both the permanaent and moveable stops on the right side of your table are missing.  I don't know why so many of them get taken off.  You'll want to replace them before you use the power feed.

Have a look at the teeth on the ring gear and see if there is obvious wear on the teeth.

_Cal_


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## Wilde Racing (Mar 3, 2013)

Cal Haines said:


> The table right end brackets seem to get broken on the majority of No. 12s.  I bet it's because the table is power fed to the left, running the bracket into the saddle.  I note that both the permanaent and moveable stops on the right side of your table are missing.  I don't know why so many of them get taken off.  You'll want to replace them before you use the power feed.
> 
> Have a look at the teeth on the ring gear and see if there is obvious wear on the teeth.
> 
> _Cal_



The teeth look good, the stops I pulled off during the remove and quick cleaning. Thanks for the tips. I've been digging up information on these vn12s and your name always pops up with great info. thanks for posting all that too. lol...


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## HMF (Mar 3, 2013)

Cal Haines said:


> The table right end brackets seem to get broken on the majority of No. 12s.  I bet it's because the table is power fed to the left, running the bracket into the saddle.  I note that both the permanaent and moveable stops on the right side of your table are missing.  I don't know why so many of them get taken off.  You'll want to replace them before you use the power feed.
> 
> Have a look at the teeth on the ring gear and see if there is obvious wear on the teeth.
> 
> _Cal_




All the rights are broken - I think the later models beefed up the brackets. 
We should copy the '50's brackets, make castings and use them.

Nelson


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## HMF (Mar 3, 2013)

Wilde's machine is between 1943-1944.



*1937		5087-	*
*1938		5192-	*
*1939		5265-	*
*1940		5443-*
*1941		5903-	*
*1942		6627-	*
*1943		7652-	*
*1944		8061-*
*1945		8507-
1946		8761-	*
*1947		8911-	*
*1948		8988-	*
*1949		9082-	*
*1950		9184-	*
*1951		9352-	*
*1952		9703-	*
*1953		9954-*
*1954		9996-	*
*1955		10024*


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## ScubaSteve (Mar 4, 2013)

Wilde- Thanks for posting pics! It's really motivating. Pictures can be deceiving, but your mill looks to be in really good mechanical condition!. The ways look great, and so do the gears.

Never did like that leadscrew bracket. Way too delicate for an otherwise solid machine. 

What gives on the lockwire through the bolts in the cutterhead? I've never seen that arrangement before (other than in these mills)....I assume it keeps the bolts from backing out. The entire assembly looks like it adjusts the meshing of the ring/pinion gears.


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## Cal Haines (Mar 4, 2013)

Lawyer said:


> All the rights are broken - I think the later models beefed up the brackets.
> We should copy the '50's brackets, make castings and use them.
> 
> Nelson



I don't think so.  I worked on a No. 12 that's within a few hundred serial numbers of the end of production and it has the same bracket (also broken).  The bracket on a No. 16, which is the direct descendant of the No. 12, is much beefier.  But I maintain my position that the broken brackets are a result of operator error using the power feed; probably some idiot operator trying to finish a long cut takes the permanent feed stop off and boom.  A heavier bracket would probably result in something more critical getting damaged in a crash.  As long as the permanent feed stop is in place and the feed mechanism is working properly the table won't crash and the bracket will be just fine.

I have a friend up in Canada who's going to make a pattern so that we could cast some new brackets.  I have no idea when/if he'll get to it.



ScubaSteve said:


> ...
> What gives on the lockwire through the bolts in the cutterhead? I've never seen that arrangement before (other than in these mills)....I assume it keeps the bolts from backing out. The entire assembly looks like it adjusts the meshing of the ring/pinion gears.


That's correct.  And on the ball-bearing gearbox machines the output shaft could be moved in and out to further adjust the mesh.  If at all possible you want to leave thhose adjustments alone.  You do need to keep and eye on the ring gear and should verify that everything is tight every time you change the cutter-head oil.

Van Norman made multiple changes to the cutter-head, mostly having to do with how the ring gear adjustment was maintained.  So I think it's safe to conclude that this was a source of problems with the machine.

_Cal_


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## Wilde Racing (Mar 5, 2013)

A little update, I couldn't wait for the oil I had ordered. So I hooked up the vfd and ran the spindle and the table both work! The dro should be here today so I can mount that as well as the vfd, replace the sight glasses and lube, then I should be milling stuff.










Edit: videos added...


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## ScubaSteve (Mar 6, 2013)

SWEEEEEEETTTTT!!!!!!!!


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## Wilde Racing (Mar 7, 2013)

Well I removed all the wiring and boxes then started mounting the DRO and scales....












I received my shipment of mobil heavy medium oil early so I removed my broken sight glass and replaced it with a incandescent flashlight lens. Hopefully it will stand up to the heat...


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## ScubaSteve (Mar 8, 2013)

I sooooo want to chip that paint off! Heck, I don't think you'd have much trouble getting that mill to bare metal.....you're almost there!


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