# Looking to get a 6-jaw for my PM1236



## JayBob (Dec 7, 2014)

I found a pretty good deal on an 8" Gator 6-jaw.  

Any reason not to get an 8" for the 1236?

I'd appreciate any insight...


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## darkzero (Dec 7, 2014)

An 8" scroll chuck is overkill for a 12" lathe IMO, 8" 4-jaw is fine. Although that's my personal preference there's also a reason why it's not common to see 8" 3-jaws & 6-jaws on 12-13" size lathes. Just be sure to check that the jaws will not hit the ways when fully extended.

There's a lot of misconceptions about 6-jaw chucks. They sure do look sexy but unless you work with thin wall materials often there's really no advantage to them. A 6-jaw chuck has more disadvantages over a 3-jaw chuck than advantages. Just want to point that out as most people are not aware of that before you spend the extra to get one.

Yes I have one & I do love it & I would buy it again but that's me. I could live without a 6-jaw over a 3-jaw & 4-jaw though. It allowed me to make things I could not hold easily with a 3-jaw but that was when I was making stuff for a different hobby that required thin walled stuff.


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## coolidge (Dec 7, 2014)

darkzero said:


> An 8" scroll chuck is overkill for a 12" lathe IMO, 8" 4-jaw is fine. Although that's my personal preference there's also a reason why it's not common to see 8" 3-jaws & 6-jaws on 12-13" size lathes. Just be sure to check that the jaws will not hit the ways when fully extended.
> 
> There's a lot of misconceptions about 6-jaw chucks. They sure do look sexy but unless you work with thin wall materials often there's really no advantage to them. A 6-jaw chuck has more disadvantages over a 3-jaw chuck than advantages. Just want to point that out as most people are not aware of that before you spend the extra to get one.
> 
> Yes I have one & I do love it & I would buy it again but that's me. I could live without a 6-jaw over a 3-jaw & 4-jaw though. It allowed me to make things I could not hold easily with a 3-jaw but that was when I was making stuff for a different hobby that required thin walled stuff.



You do realize the 6 jaw craze is due to your avatar right! :rofl:


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## darkzero (Dec 7, 2014)

coolidge said:


> You do realize the 6 jaw craze is due to your avatar right! :rofl:



:rofl:

Yeah maybe, I admit, I would want to buy one too looking at it. Nice chucks are like works of art to me, they're chuck por..., er, I mean beautiful (this is a family oriented forum). I'm not trying to discourage anyone from buying one. Just hate to see someone spend so much more for one later to find out it's not actually "better" than a 3-jaw.

But I can live with the disadvantages, I use it as my primary chuck, & switch as needed. I would not recommend it as your only chuck. But if you're still set one getting one & don't mind the disadvantages then......


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## wrmiller (Dec 7, 2014)

They're a bit spendy too! 

I will admit I do like looking at darkzero's chucks (that just sounds too weird...) but I will have to limit myself to a Bison 6 1/4" three jaw set-tru for the 1340 and call it good.


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## darkzero (Dec 7, 2014)

wrmiller19 said:


> Bison 6 1/4" three jaw set-tru for the 1340



Great choice! I want to upgrade my 3-jaw so bad. Unless I find I good used Bison 6.25" Set-Tru, I think I'll just get me another Fuerda/Gator in the same flavor. Don't think I can afford another brand new Bison soon. Or maybe I'll just save up for one.


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## 12bolts (Dec 8, 2014)

darkzero said:


>



Is that photoshopped or is there a reason you have 2 the same?

Cheers Phil


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## darkzero (Dec 8, 2014)

12bolts said:


> Is that photoshopped or is there a reason you have 2 the same?
> 
> Cheers Phil



No PS, I wish I knew how to use it.

The one sitting on the ways is a 5" which are pretty rare to see as they aren't carried by many vendors & costs just as much as the 6"s do.

It's the chuck that I had on my mini lathe (red one pictured above). I don't have that 5" Bison anymore, just the 6.25". I sold that chuck when I gave my brother my mini lathe.


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## tino_ale (Dec 8, 2014)

Interresting thread!

What are the disadvantages of the 6-jaws compared to a 3-jaw chuck, beside the cost ?


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## JayBob (Dec 8, 2014)

Thanks for the discussion fellas!  

I'm aware of some of the disadvantages of using a 6-jaw chuck, but I do feel that I have use for it, and I plan to upgrade my 3-jaw in the future as well.

I "grew up" on a 6-jaw chuck when I was in the Navy, and I really miss having one.  It was a 16" Clausing lathe, and the chuck had to be all of 12", at least.  I really miss the reversible jaws too.  When I upgrade the 3-jaw, I'll be getting one with reversible jaws (same with the 6-jaw).

I do have a number of items that a 6-jaw would routinely make easier for me.  I often have occasion to chuck up some DD stainless bar stock, and I have to drill out some polyurethane bushings pretty often, that usually end up coming out with a triangular hole, due to the way the 3-jaw clamps onto them.

Also, about 80-90% of my work is on Delrin and UMHW polyethylene, making bushings for cars, and I'd like to keep them as round as possible.

As for going with an 8" chuck, I've done some measuring, and it looks like I'll have adequate room for it.  One of my common products is a set of spring perches for a car made from 6" UHMW stock.  While I don't necessarily feel unsafe holding that material in the current 6" chuck, I'm not 100% comfortable with it.


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## coolidge (Dec 8, 2014)

Would just removing 3 jaws from the 6 jaw Bison Set Tru give you the best of both a 3 jaw and 6 jaw in a single chuck? Also does anyone know the smallest diameter stock a 6" and 8" diameter Bison 6 jaw will hold?


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## darkzero (Dec 8, 2014)

coolidge said:


> Would just removing 3 jaws from the 6 jaw Bison Set Tru give you the best of both a 3 jaw and 6 jaw in a single chuck? Also does anyone know the smallest diameter stock a 6" and 8" diameter Bison 6 jaw will hold?



Yes & more likely no. The jaws are much narrower than a 3-jaw chuck. Occasional use with 3-jaws may be fine but I never do this. Overtime you may get uneven wear vs the used & unused jaws.

IIRC .312" is listed as the min range on both the 6" & 8". When I need to work on diameters smaller & don't want to swap out chucks, I use collets in the chuck (if I can).


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## coolidge (Dec 8, 2014)

As much as I wanted to buy a really cool chuck all attempts at defying darkzero's logic have failed. After this last round of Bison research here are a few points in favor of the various things darkzero has said.

1. The 6 jaw is out of the running, I have several alternatives that would give me the same features. I can't see buying a 6 jaw unless I was doing a large production run of something I really need a 6 jaw for to save time.

2. I took another look at the 4 jaw combination chuck, great 'idea' but I can find no information on how accurate it repeats plus Bison doesn't even have a technical sheet on their site for it and appears to have abandoned the forged steel version altogether.

3. 8 inch vs 6 inch. Well reality set in quickly (Coolidge is about to get an attitude and buy a big ass used Mori) the G4003G swing over the cross slide is only 7.5 inches, 7.6 if you push it. That's not even enough to clear the 6 inch 3 jaw set tru Bison, its max swing is 8 inches and the 8 inch chuck max swing is 9.65 inches. For safety alone I would opt for the 6 inch Bison even then I will have to be mindful of putting the cross slide into the chuck.

Darkzero do you have the OD of the 6 inch six jaw? Bison only lists the max swing I'm guessing with the jaws adjusted all the way out but what's the OD of the chuck body if the jaws are inside of that OD.


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## coolidge (Dec 8, 2014)

MSC is having an up to 40% off metal working sale right now...I selected the Bison Set Tru 6 inch chuck and D1-5 back plate, plugged in the code and got 35% off, the MSC price is $113 less than Enco with a 20% off sale and $115 less than NEBT. :thinking: MSC sales tax will eat up about $70 of that savings though.


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## darkzero (Dec 8, 2014)

coolidge said:


> As much as I wanted to buy a really cool chuck all attempts at defying darkzero's logic have failed. After this last round of Bison research here are a few points in favor of the various things darkzero has said.
> 
> 1. The 6 jaw is out of the running, I have several alternatives that would give me the same features. I can't see buying a 6 jaw unless I was doing a large production run of something I really need a 6 jaw for to save time.
> 
> ...



When I got my PM1236 & was chuck shopping, I was very close to buying an 8" Pratt Burnerd 6-Jaw Setrite chuck for a great deal. IMO Pratt Burnerd chucks are nicer than Bison chucks but they cost much more. I had a hard time finding the back plate for it & it was expensive as hell. Probably even more expensive now.

If you look at JayBob's pic above, it's showing the stock 3-jaw, look how close the jaw is to the chuck shield. I had a good feeling an 8" scroll chuck (3-jaw or 6-jaw) would hit that. Irrelavent now as I took that dreaded shield off. It really annoyed me. 

I think an 8" scroll chuck would clear the ways with the jaws fully extended, if it was a true 8" chuck (see below). Did you mean clear the ways or clear the cross slide? Ways is most important, clearing cross slide doesn't bother me much. The body of 6.25" chuck will clear the cross slide but an 8" won't. Doesn't matter to me cause there's rare a need for the cross slide to fit under the chuck, the compound slide would get in the way first during machining.

------------

Lots of variances on chuck sizes between manufacturers, especially in the 6-8" range, so you have to look closely. To answer you question, Bison lists Set-Tru 6" chucks as 6-1/4". But they're actually 160mm (body OD), which is more like 6.3" (made in Poland...metric system). Bison's 8" Set-Tru chucks are 200mm, which is 7.87".

The 6" 3-jaw that came with my lathe is 160mm (5.9"). Now my 6" super spacer came with a 165mm chuck, that's like 6.5". No where can I find that states the 6" super spacer came with a 6.5" chuck, it's the same SS as the PhaseII.

Now we turn to Fuerda (Gator chucks). Bison Set-Tru chucks only come in forged (full steel boidies). Gator adjustable chucks come in both semi-steel & full steel. So their less expensive semi-steel chucks (EA seires), their 6" is a 6.0" chuck (my guess is 160mm). Their 8" chuck is 8.25" (probably 210mm). Now their more expensive PA series (Tech-Tru, full steel) their 6-1/4" is 6.3" & their 8" is 7.87", just like Bison.

So when you see 6" & 8", pay close attention to see if it's actually 5.9", 6.3", 7.87" or 8.25". Sorry for the long post, just wanted to point that out cause if you got an actual 8.25" when you were expecting to get an 8" may cause you grief.


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## darkzero (Dec 8, 2014)

Last post was way too long already, on to the 4-jaw scroll chuck, aka combo chuck. Doesn't seem to be that popular but when I was looking at them back when I was chuck shopping, it seems those who do have them like them a a lot. Still not a replacement for an independent 4-jaw as it can't hold irregular work or rectangles. Like the 6-jaw, the 4-jaw scroll is another specialty chuck. If you work with square stock a lot, then it's very convenient & still grips round stock fine. 

I'm assuming you are looking at the Set-Tru version. For any adjustable chuck (whatever each manufacturer calls their own, Set-Tru, Adjust-Tru, Set-Rite, Tech-Tru, etc.), low TIR is guaranteed around 1/2 to 2 tenths of a thou. They do repeat very well & is one of the reasons why I don't need to use collets much (I only use collets when I need the safety of now chuck jaws). But if you dial in the chuck for low TIR using a 1" test bar, then it's really only good for working on that diameter. So if you dial in at 1", you may not get the same low run out holding 2" stock. Make sense? Well run out would still be pretty low though.

I have Thomson linear shafting that I use for indicating runout in 1" & 1.5" diameters. So if & when it matters, I'll dial in my chuck at 1" when I know I will be doing a lot of work at 1" or at 1.5" using the 1.5" bar, yada yada. I'm just a home shop hobby dude, so it really doesn't matter but it doesn't hurt to practice being more precise, or at least trying to. I dialed it in with 1" & it been like for the past 6 months.


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## tmarks11 (Dec 8, 2014)

coolidge said:


> ....the G4003G swing over the cross slide is only 7.5 inches, 7.6 if you push it. That's not even enough to clear the 6 inch 3 jaw set tru Bison, its max swing is 8 inches and the 8 inch chuck max swing is 9.65 inches. For safety alone I would opt for the 6 inch Bison even then I will have to be mindful of putting the cross slide into the chuck.



With the normal positioning of my compound slide (either 90 degrees to the cross slide, or 30 degrees to the cross slide) and my QCTP, the chuck WILL hit the QCTP and/or compound before it hits the cross slide. I would have no safety concerns about an 8" chuck impacting the cross slide (I do however worry about the compound with every cut...)

Your G4003G came with an 8" 4 jaw chuck, as does almost every 12x36 lathe.


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## darkzero (Dec 8, 2014)

coolidge said:


> MSC is having an up to 40% off metal working sale right now...I selected the Bison Set Tru 6 inch chuck and D1-5 back plate, plugged in the code and got 35% off, the MSC price is $113 less than Enco with a 20% off sale and $115 less than NEBT. :thinking: MSC sales tax will eat up about $70 of that savings though.



Check with Ajax tools. They're on ebay & he usually lists them with the combo deal for the chuck & your choice of back plate. I got both my Bison & Gator chuck from them. They'll be dropped shipped directly from the distributor. Prices have gone up since but he still has great prices

Matt at QMT also carries Bison now. Last I looked his prices on ebay were even cheaper than Ajax. Same thing, listings for chuck & backplate together.

I don't know what's up with Enco, their Bison prices seem way higher than others. Wasn't like that before.


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## gspen60676@aol.com (Dec 8, 2014)

I have a 6 jaw Bison and that's all I have used.  If there is a problem with them I'm nevercome across that or any other problem.  I like having 6 jaw rather then 3 for holdingmaterial.  Patrick


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## darkzero (Dec 10, 2014)

coolidge said:


> MSC is having an up to 40% off metal working sale right now...I selected the Bison Set Tru 6 inch chuck and D1-5 back plate, plugged in the code and got 35% off, the MSC price is $113 less than Enco with a 20% off sale and $115 less than NEBT. :thinking: MSC sales tax will eat up about $70 of that savings though.



Sooooo, did you buy it yet?  ondering:


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## tmarks11 (Dec 10, 2014)

One of the advantages of a 3 jaw chuck is it is easy to get a caliper or mic through the jaws to measure the total length of the part or the position of a feature.

Not as much room on a 6 jaw to take those measurements.


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## coolidge (Dec 10, 2014)

darkzero said:


> Sooooo, did you buy it yet?  ondering:



No I'm holding out for the next Enco sale to avoid the sales tax and get hopefully free shipping.


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## darkzero (Dec 10, 2014)

coolidge said:


> No I'm holding out for the next Enco sale to avoid the sales tax and get hopefully free shipping.



Yup, I hear ya, tax always kills it. I wish Enco didn't charge me tax.

So if/when you do or whenever, I created a 6-jaw group (just for fun, I was bored) for anyone. Hit "group tools" then "join" if ya want to join. 

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/group.php?groupid=31


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## coolidge (Dec 16, 2014)

darkzero said:


> Sooooo, did you buy it yet?  ondering:



YES I did 20 minutes ago, from NEBT. Inbound Bison Set Tru forged steel 6.25 inch 6 jaw chuck and D1-5 back plate! That's right 6 jaw damn it, because...I wanted it!! Ahahaha Merry Christmas to ME! :rofl:

Sadly Enco raised their price on this chuck a whopping $240. NEBT shipping was $48 plus a $10 processing fee vs Enco $21 but they were still over $100 less than Enco even with the Enco 20% off sale.


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## darkzero (Dec 16, 2014)

Congrats, welcome to the club!


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## JayBob (Dec 16, 2014)

I feel like the thread was taken from under me.  lol.

What was the price, coolidge?


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## darkzero (Dec 16, 2014)

JayBob said:


> I feel like the thread was taken from under me.  lol.
> 
> What was the price, coolidge?



Yeah, sorry about that but at least I did offer my input beforehand. It's coolidge's fault. :rofl:

I'm also curious what they cost these days, if coolidge doesn't mind sharing. Bison prices keep going up....on all their products.


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## coolidge (Dec 16, 2014)

JayBob said:


> I feel like the thread was taken from under me.  lol.
> 
> What was the price, coolidge?



NEBT prices were

$295 - Bison D1-5 adaptor plate for 6" SET-TRU chuck Mfg part# 7-875-065
$995 - Bison SET-TRU 6 jaw forged steel chuck Mft part# 7-868-0600
$10 - Credit card processing fee
$48 - UPS ground shipping (MA to WA that's like 3,000 miles) so not unreasonable.

Total $1,348

Enco wanted $1375 for the chuck, $411 for the back plate, - 20% off sale = $1,429 + $21 shipping = $1,449


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## coolidge (Dec 16, 2014)

darkzero said:


> Yeah, sorry about that but at least I did offer my input beforehand. It's coolidge's fault. :rofl:
> 
> I'm also curious what they cost these days, if coolidge doesn't mind sharing. Bison prices keep going up....on all their products.



Yeah okay who's getting everyone worked up with their 6 jaw avatar? (points at darkzero) :rofl:


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## darkzero (Dec 16, 2014)

coolidge;256is hi47 said:
			
		

> Yeah okay who's getting everyone worked up with their 6 jaw avatar? (points at darkzero) :rofl:



Haha, it's working!

Damn, Enco's price is high! Same case back when I got mine so I also did not order from them.


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## tmarks11 (Dec 16, 2014)

coolidge said:


> YES I did 20 minutes ago, from NEBT.



ok, that is a new one to me.  I thought I had all the machinery suppliers scoped out.

website? (Google sends me to the Nebraska Transport Company, which I am betting is not who you bought the chuck from!)


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## coolidge (Dec 16, 2014)

tmarks11 said:


> ok, that is a new one to me.  I thought I had all the machinery suppliers scoped out.
> 
> website? (Google sends me to the Nebraska Transport Company, which I am betting is not who you bought the chuck from!)



New England Brass and Tool http://brassandtool.com/index.html


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## zmotorsports (Dec 16, 2014)

darkzero said:


> Yes & more likely no. The jaws are much narrower than a 3-jaw chuck. Occasional use with 3-jaws may be fine but I never do this. Overtime you may get uneven wear vs the used & unused jaws.
> 
> IIRC .312" is listed as the min range on both the 6" & 8". When I need to work on diameters smaller & don't want to swap out chucks, I use collets in the chuck (if I can).



This is exactly the same method I use if I just need to machine something smaller the the minimum closing diameter of my 6-jaw which is .312".  I generally use my Gator 6-jaw because a lot of tubing that I machine.  I do use the 3 and 4-jaws quite a lot as well but the 6-jaw usually resides on th lathe.


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## mredburn (Dec 16, 2014)

Are the collets pictured straight walled rather than tapered?


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## darkzero (Dec 16, 2014)

zmotorsports said:


> This is exactly the same method I use if I just need to machine something smaller the the minimum closing diameter of my 6-jaw



Which type of collets do you use?


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## darkzero (Dec 16, 2014)

mredburn said:


> Are the collets pictured straight walled rather than tapered?



DA collets are not tapered, they have straight sides but are stepped as they are designed for tool holding to be used in a collet chuck. They're similar to ER collets where the entire length of the collet grips the tool so they're not designed for holding something short.

I do use the collet holder on the mill but very rarely now. I have always used DA collets mostly for holding small work.

On the left is a DA180 collet, the smaller one is DA200 (3/8" max capacity).


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## coolidge (Dec 20, 2014)

RCW said:


> Probably a really dumb question that only a newbie would ask, but what is the advantage (or disadvantage?) to buying a chuck with an adapter plate rather than an integral D1-4 chuck?



Well if you wanted to mount this chuck on another lathe that had a different mounting, D1-4 or D1-6 say you would only have to purchase the appropriate back plate. Lets say you upgraded to a bigger lathe and wanted to keep this chuck for it. I 'think' that when you machine the back plate on the lathe to fit that specific lathe its also more accurate. Where is darkzero?


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## tmarks11 (Dec 20, 2014)

RCW said:


> Probably a really dumb question that only a newbie would ask, but what is the advantage (or disadvantage?) to buying a chuck with an adapter plate rather than an integral D1-4 chuck?



"Set Tru" adaptor plate has 4 allen headed screws that allow you to adjust the precise position of the chuck to completely eliminate any runout.

A good three jaw chuck will have 0.0015" of runout.  An average three jaw chuck will have 0.003".  A lousy three jaw chuck will have 0.005-0.010".  Doesn't sound like much, but if you flip the part you have held in a three piece chuck, and turn it down, you will end up with two ends that are not concentric.... and 0.003" is noticeable.  Typically, when you turn something down in a three jaw, you don't flip it.  You turn it to a diameter that will fit in a collet, and than use a 5C or 3J collet chuck to finish it off (which typically is a lot more accurate).  Or you completely finish and part the piece without ever removing it from the three jaw.

The "set tru" concept gives you another alternative.


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## darkzero (Dec 20, 2014)

RCW said:


> what is the advantage (or disadvantage?) to buying a chuck with an adapter plate rather than an integral D1-4 chuck?



The way I see it is the only advantage an integral spindle mount chuck is less weight. Maybe there's other advantages but I can't think of any right now other than they would cost less. When you have an integral chuck you have to rely on the quality of the chuck for runout. Quality chucks aren't normally guaranteed by the manufacture to have less that .002" run out, on a cheap import chuck expect more but you can get lucky. You can play around with it clocking the pins but it may or may not be better & will vary from lathe to lathe.

Like tmarks stated, adjustable chucks (Set-Tru, Adjust-Tru, Setrite, etc) have set screws to allow you to dial in the chuck. The set screw mates on a boss on the backplate & is why one is usually needed for adjustable chucks. These chucks are usually guaranteed to have .0005"-.0002" TIR (there are limitations). 

I prefer to have a chuck with a backplate. Even on plain back chucks, like with what I did with the China 3-jaw that cam with my lathe, I turned down the register on the backplate so there would be just a bit undersize than the chuck & I use it as a "tap-tru" to dial in the run out. Usually not recommended but for light & moderate use it would be fine. I don't use that chuck much anyway. And like coolidge stated, you could always use it on another lathe simply by changing the back plate.

Now my 4-jaw, I chose to buy an integral D1-4. Since it's bigger & heavier, this cuts down on the weight. Also gives you an area to better grip the chuck when moving it because of the way it's casted. It's an independent chuck so dialing in gets done at the jaws anyway.


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## zmotorsports (Dec 21, 2014)

darkzero said:


> Which type of collets do you use?



Will, I am using the exact same ones you pictured, the Technik DA200 series.  

Mike.


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## mksj (Dec 28, 2014)

I am currently looking for a new lathe chuck for my 1340GT, the stock 3 jaw is out .008". 

You might check out Grizzly prices for 3 and 6 jaw lathe chucks, now that they carry Bison and Pratt Burnerd:
$211 - Bison D1-5 adapter plate for 6" SET-TRU chuck Mfg part# 7-875-065
$825 - Bison SET-TRU 6 jaw forged steel chuck Mft part# 7-868-0600
$24 -  ground shipping
Total shipped price of $1008 with 5% catalog discount (ask for a hard copy)

Will probably end up with a Pratt Burnerd Set-Rite 3 jaw, which are priced a little bit more then the Bison Set-Tru 3 jaw.


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## wrmiller (Dec 28, 2014)

May I ask why you are considering the Pratt over the Bison?


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## mksj (Dec 28, 2014)

The PBA seems to have slightly better fit and finish, nitride hardened scroll. They both are very close and have very similar specs, the Bison has a slightly larger clamping range. Reviews for both have been very positive. I am open to others opinion.


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## darkzero (Dec 28, 2014)

I'd take the Pratt over a Bison. IMO the English made chucks are nicer than the Polish chucks. Pratt was my first choice when I was chuck shopping but it didn't work out for me at the time.


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## zmotorsports (Dec 29, 2014)

Wow, that surprises me that the 3-jaw that came on your 1340GT is off that much.  These are a Taiwanese chuck that comes on the 1340GT, mine was off less than .0005".

Just for giggles and grinns, have you tried relocating it in the other two positions on the spindle?  I would try it and see if that corrects the runout.

As far as chucks that you mentioned, I too would take the Pratt over the Bison given the choice.


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## mksj (Dec 29, 2014)

Pulled the backing plate off the chuck, a few high spots from small dings were taken off and I cleaned up the mating surfaces. Then tried remounting in different positions. One position gave a little over .002" run out, the other 2 positions were a bit higher. That is about what is expected, it is nicely made otherwise. The lathe spindle run out with the chuck removed was ~.0001".


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## coolidge (Dec 29, 2014)

mksj said:


> I am currently looking for a new lathe chuck for my 1340GT, the stock 3 jaw is out .008".
> 
> You might check out Grizzly prices for 3 and 6 jaw lathe chucks, now that they carry Bison and Pratt Burnerd:
> *$211 - Bison D1-5 adapter plate for 6" SET-TRU chuck Mfg part# 7-875-065
> ...



Damn it, I could have saved $136 by ordering mine from Grizzly I don't know how I missed that deal


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## JayBob (Jan 11, 2015)

It's not a very good picture, but I got this in the mail the other day.

Now I just need to buy the back plate.


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