# Collet closer needs a nose piece 5MT to 5c.



## xalky (Nov 6, 2013)

Hey guys I have this collet closer that came with my lathe but I'm pretty sure I'm missing the nose piece that adapts the 5MT spindle to the 5c Collet. I've looked around online for such an animal but they seem to be rarer than chicken lips. So I'm thinking about making one. I don't have a taper attachment for the morse taper, so I'm thinking I should start out with something that already has the morse taper #5  and stick that in the spindle at least I'll know that it'll run true. Then I could machine the  inside of it for the 5c collet.

Heres a  few pics, so you can see what I'm talking about.












I'd be willing to buy something if I could find one. If anybody has something that they want to part with, I'd be willing to buy it. If not , I'm taking suggestions on how to go about making a nose piece. I'd really like to start out with something that already has the MT5 end on it.  Since I don't have anything like that, I'd be in the market for that too.


----------



## Ray C (Nov 6, 2013)

Marcel,

You really don't need anything fancy or big enough to require a taper attachment. You could make an adapter sleeve using your compound. On a 5C, the front tapered part is only about 1" long.


EDIT:  I've made these little adapters more than once.  I keep losing them and end-up using my collet chuck most of the time anyhow.  If you get in a pinch and can't find what you need, let me know and I'll knock one out next time I'm in the shop -or better yet, I'll find one of my old ones.  You can have it.


Ray


----------



## xalky (Nov 6, 2013)

Hey Ray, Thanks for the quick reply. I'm not too concerned about the the 5c taper that should be fairly simple to make. My biiggest concern is turning the  5MT taper. My chck jaws don't run absolutely true, I have about .0015 runout maybe more if its not chucked up just right.  The morse taper in the spindle is only about 1 1/2 " long at best. I was just thinking that if i turn the morse taper 5 first and then stick it in the spindle It'll run true to the spindle and then I can bore it out for the 5C. What do you think?  My main concern is that the collet setup runs more true than the chuck. Have you ever  turned a morse taper just using the compound?


----------



## Ray C (Nov 6, 2013)

Yes, I've made Morse tapers using the compound.  You can get it pretty darn close...

I think your idea sounds good except one thing...  As you work on a piece that's stuffed inside a 5MT hole, it will have a tendence to shift around or come out.  Drilling the hole would work fine but the instant you start to withdrawl the bit, the whole thing is going to pull out of the spindle.  Unlike JT (Jacobs) tapers, Morse, 5C and R8 etc require constant pressure to keep them seated.

It's OK if your chuck jaws are off if you're making a piece from scratch.  Take a piece big enough, make an MT5 taper on the outside, bore the inside and make a taper that matches the 5C front taper.   Take the piece over to the bandsaw or, part it in half.  -Done.



Ray




xalky said:


> Hey Ray, Thanks for the quick reply. I'm not too concerned about the the 5c taper that should be fairly simple to make. My biiggest concern is turning the 5MT taper. My chck jaws don't run absolutely true, I have about .0015 runout maybe more if its not chucked up just right. The morse taper in the spindle is only about 1 1/2 " long at best. I was just thinking that if i turn the morse taper 5 first and then stick it in the spindle It'll run true to the spindle and then I can bore it out for the 5C. What do you think? My main concern is that the collet setup runs more true than the chuck. Have you ever turned a morse taper just using the compound?


----------



## xalky (Nov 6, 2013)

Yeah you're right. As long as I leave it chucked up and I dont unchuck it, It'll run true to itself. I wish I had something here with a MT5 on it, but I guess I'll just use the mt5 dimensions and make it that way. Spooky:yikes:, this'll be my first ever attempt at a taper... wish me luck.


----------



## xalky (Nov 6, 2013)

I'm thinking I should set the compound to about 1.5 degrees for the mt5 taper?  But what's the best way to do that ? I could be off by a mile. My compound is flat and square, maybe I should indicate it to an indicator mounted in the tail stock.  


Update: I was able to indicate on the length of the ccompound, i just had enough length to get the full length of the taper of 5.19" . Then I took the large diameter minus the small diameter whicc gives me a difference of .273. Then I take 1/2 of that to incicate the one side of the angle, which is 1365". That should get me real close.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ray C (Nov 6, 2013)

Then centerline angle for MT 5 is 1.5073 degrees.  If you go to this thread, it shows how to set the compound precisely to an angle.  http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...tween-centers?highlight=balanced+grinder+hubs

If you have two travel indicators, you can get that angle very, very close...  See post # of that thread.  Let me know if you need help.


Ray


----------



## buffdan (Nov 6, 2013)

I have a collet closer nose piece which might fit.
Can you provide any dimensions, like diameter of spindle opening..

Here is one on ebay as an example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5C-Collet-N...5?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item4d1479a679 

I'll take some measurements of the one I have

give me a day or so..

Forgot to mention that Grizzly used to sell nose pieces for their lathes..
Might have to check owner manuals or call them

Dan


----------



## f350ca (Nov 6, 2013)

Marcel, if you set up a test indicator on the compound with the pointer dead on centre height and indicate the MT in the spindle you should get the compound angle real close. Once you've got it right moving the compound in and out will show movement on the test indicator.

Greg


----------



## kd4gij (Nov 6, 2013)

f350ca said:


> Marcel, if you set up a test indicator on the compound with the pointer dead on centre height and indicate the MT in the spindle you should get the compound angle real close. Once you've got it right moving the compound in and out will show movement on the test indicator.
> 
> Greg







   This is how I did it when I made my ER40 collet chuck. Adjust the compound till you get 0 deflection on the DTI across the lingth of the taper.


----------



## Ray C (Nov 6, 2013)

The ones I've made look like this and take only a few minutes to make...  You don't need to harden the metal although it would be nice so it won't stick in the spindle -no big deal, it will pop out with a light tap.  It only needs to be about 1.25" long.  The major OD is about 1.75" (measure your spindle to be sure) and the 5C major OD is 1.5".  The 5C angle is 10[SUP]o[/SUP] and the MT5 is 1.507[SUP]o[/SUP]

Have a look at the PDF.  (Reminder:  By clicking on the PDF, you can use the left-mouse and scroll pad to rotate the image).


View attachment 5C_MT5_Adapter.pdf


Ray


----------



## xalky (Nov 6, 2013)

You guys are awesome!





buffdan said:


> I have a collet closer nose piece which might fit.
> Can you provide any dimensions, like diameter of spindle opening..
> 
> Here is one on ebay as an example:
> ...


I can get a better measurement tomorrow, if i remember correctly, the outermost edge of the 5mt spindle was 1.495, just a hair under 1.5"
I did see that one on ebay, but the dimensions are kinda vague, I didn't want to take a chance on it.
I called grizzly, you can order it as a part from one of thier collet closers. It was $98 plus shipping. I would have bought it if it had been around $50 or less. I honestly thought it was gonna be around $30. It kinda blew me away.
I'm still open to buying one if you guys want to get rid of one.




f350ca said:


> Marcel, if you set up a test indicator on the compound with the pointer dead on centre height and indicate the MT in the spindle you should get the compound angle real close. Once you've got it right moving the compound in and out will show movement on the test indicator.
> 
> Greg


I don't have a Morse taper 5 of anything except for the spindle. I did just win 2 MT 5 used dead centers, but i won't have those till next week probably.


kd4gij said:


> This is how I did it when I made my ER40 collet chuck. Adjust the compound till you get 0 deflection on the DTI across the lingth of the taper.


 No taper to measure.



Ray C said:


> The ones I've made look like this and take only a few minutes to make...  You don't need to harden the metal although it would be nice so it won't stick in the spindle -no big deal, it will pop out with a light tap.  It only needs to be about 1.25" long.  The major OD is about 1.75" (measure your spindle to be sure) and the 5C major OD is 1.5".  The 5C angle is 10[SUP]o[/SUP] and the MT5 is 1.507[SUP]o[/SUP]
> 
> Have a look at the PDF.  (Reminder:  By clicking on the PDF, you can use the left-mouse and scroll pad to rotate the image).
> 
> ...


 Thanks Ray, I've already set my compound to cut the mt 5 taper, It's set to the exact angle offset @ 5.19", along that length. I was gonna start cutting it tonight but I ran out of time.

Tomorrow is another day. I'm gonna try my hand at making one, but if someone has on to sell, I'll take it.

Marcel


----------



## f350ca (Nov 6, 2013)

Its the MT in the spindle you want to indicate to Marcel. Remove the chuck an indicate to the inside of the taper.
Greg


----------



## Jimsehr (Nov 7, 2013)

You can make one out of a drill sleeve or drill socket with a 5mt on the outside. You can buy one in the soft state with a hard tang that you can cut off. Enco or MSC should have one for about 20 dollars. In a home shop you can get by without it being heat treated as long as you keep it clean and take care of it.
jimsehr


----------



## xalky (Nov 7, 2013)

Someone from this forum has offered to make me a heat treated one, and I'm gonna try to make one too. I think I'm all set guys. Thanks for all the helpfull responses.

I went from not having a clue to what part was missing for my collett closer in the morning, to knowing which part I need, how to make one, and an offer to make me one. I also learned a lot about the dimensions of morse tapers and 5c colletts. Even though someone here is making me one, I'm gonna make one too, because I need the practice, and i always feel better about myself when I accomplish something new.

Marcel


----------



## billooms (Nov 7, 2013)

Here's a link to another thread that discusses the 5MT to 5C adapter:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/2784-Collet-Closer-or-collet-chuck?highlight=G4003G

Note the reference to the 5MT to 5C adapter from Grizzly (their price is $98).


----------

