# Good place for sourcing end mills?



## GunsOfNavarone (Sep 2, 2018)

I have researched enough about end mill materials, coating, designs and purposes that I have enough comfort there's that I won't those questions however, any suggestions on a place to get decent end mills? My used PM-727M came with some nice ones from a place local here Colorado Mold Supply. Seems to be too quality and great performance but possibly expensive to very expensive (here's a link, let me know your thoughts) I don't mind so much if the last/perform, but also I am a novice, mistakes will be made. I'm not sure I should experiment with a 75-100 dollar end mill.
Colorado Mold Supply,
A small set maybe a cost effective way, but haven't had much luck but with Amazon and those are probably Chinese-ium or Grizzly with are a bit expensive for what I'm guessing is also Chinese.
Any links would be very appreciated as word of mouth is the best way of sourcing good products...


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## Trip (Sep 2, 2018)

Search ebay for resharpened end mills . some really good deals can be had .


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## pacifica (Sep 2, 2018)

An ebay seller: carbidetoolco. sells 1/2"  stub refurbished carbide end mills, $6.83. I have some and they are excellent.American made, leave a great finish.


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## Bob Korves (Sep 2, 2018)

As a novice, the first thing you should learn about is feeds and speeds.  There are plenty of formulas and programs available on the web, and free slide rule types can often be had free from the bigger makers of tooling.  Actually, in the real world, I have this simple speed formula in my head (with sample equations

(Surface feet per minute) (times 4)
______________________________________                    = Spindle RPM
       (cutter diameter in inches)


1018 steel at 90 sfpm X 4
____________________________                                  = 720 RPM
       1/2" end mill


6061-t6 aluminum at 400 sfpm X 4
______________________________________                   = 6400 rpm
              1/4" end mill


None of this is critical (but it does matter!), and other factors enter into the equation as well, so those numbers, or somewhat slower, might be a starting point on my knee mill.  As far as feed rate goes, there are formulas out there you can use, which usually are giving tool movement per tooth based on material, cutting tool, and tooth count (and outputting feed per tooth.)  You can also simply make the tool work hard enough to cut real chips, no crumbs or powder, but at the same time not hard enough that the machine and tool complain too much.  Abusing cutters dulls them and breaks them.  Start with known common machining metals instead of mystery metals, nothing at all exotic, make sure that all axes are locked except for the one you are using, make sure the setup is rigid, and cut some metal!

You will find that going by the book does not always achieve optimum results.  Learn what you are looking for, and know what you should adjust and in which direction to improve the cut and make the tool and machine happy.  You will dull and break some end mills along the way, even pros do it, but it will just be worse if you use cheap or dull used tools.  The good ones, in good condition, and run under the correct conditions, will make you look like a pro.  Use some of each while you are learning.  We learn on the machine by experience, though some useful study and a good mentor is a BIG help, especially at first.


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## Bob Korves (Sep 2, 2018)

Trip said:


> Search ebay for resharpened end mills . some really good deals can be had .





pacifica said:


> An ebay seller: carbidetoolco. sells 1/2" stub refurbished carbide end mills, $6.83. I have some and they are excellent.American made, leave a great finish.


That is a really good price for carbide end mills, but I recommend that the OP starts out with standard high speed steel tooling, and learn how to work with it first.  Not pushed too hard, and on softer materials, HSS is less demanding of proper technique,


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## Cobra (Sep 2, 2018)

I would suggest using Bob's formula to make up a chart of the speeds of your machine vs sizes from .25 to 3 inches to give the sfm.  
list the target sfm for various materials below and you have an easy reference at the mill.
If you have to err, go for a little less sfm rather than too high.  Your tools will last much longer.
Best of luck.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Sep 2, 2018)

Bob Korves said:


> That is a really good price for carbide end mills, but I recommend that the OP starts out with standard high speed steel tooling, and learn how to work with it first.  Not pushed too hard, and on softer materials, HSS is less demanding of proper technique,


With my machine topping out at 1700 rpm...I'm not sure Carbide tools are a good option for me?
I have been browsing ebay, though I'm uncomfortable with purchasing there. It is so hard to know where the tool is from or what kind of resharpening job they have done. I'd really like to have a decent set of new, but do I need to spend 70 to $100/ea to get a decent tool. I have no idea!


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## T Bredehoft (Sep 2, 2018)

I've found many opportunities to buy multiples of small HHS and carbide end mills on Ebay. The last, five 3/8 solid carbide, 6  flute double end mills for about $5.00 ea. 
This was a couple of months ago, they're still out there.


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## T Bredehoft (Sep 2, 2018)

Here's a good one, 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-HSS-CNC...015748?hash=item5b0754b4c4:g:gfUAAOSw6CJbF03C

Five HHS 3/16 endmills for $4.95 free shipping.


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## projectnut (Sep 2, 2018)

The type of mill you select is not only dependent on the speed you intend to cut, but also dependent on the material you intend to cut.  Personally I prefer HHS mills for the bulk of the work I do.  In total I have in the neighborhood of 1,000 different end mills with the vast majority being HSS.  I would guess there are less than 50 carbide mills in the lot.  

Most of my mills were acquired through equipment dealers, flea markets, and eBay.  I did buy a number from Enco, but those were specialty mills for specific jobs.  I do wish they were still around, because their prices for name brand mills were considerably less than most other vendors.    I have found over the years that eBay lots can be a bargain if you're willing to look at lots of 25 pieces and larger.  I have bought lots as large as 50 and more.  When buying in larger numbers unit prices are generally considerably less expensive.

If I don't want to bother with sharpening them I usually inspect the pictures religiously.  If I see anything the seller may have missed I ask questions.  I usually only look at "Buy It Now Lots" that accept "best offers".  From time to time I have purchased known damaged end mills that still can be sharpened.  For those I would guess I've paid in the neighborhood of $2.00 per unit on sizes 1/2" to 1 1/2".  For sizes 3/8" and under I try to buy "New" or "New Other".  I find the smaller sizes more of a PIA to sharpen, especially when the prices for new, name brand quality ones are reasonably priced.


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## BaronJ (Sep 2, 2018)

Hi Guys,

I must shamefully admit that I buy most of my "Slot Drills" both two and three flute from China.  I've been very satisfied with the product I've received.
In fact I once got a couple marked "Yamaha". 

But unless I actually need to machine a slot, I use the biggest that I can get into my ER32 collet chuck.

I don't have any carbide cutters.


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## Cooter Brown (Sep 2, 2018)

This is my favorite used machine tool dealer.....
I see deals like that all the time....

http://www.mckeanmachinery.com/inventory/product-detail.php?item=BX9964


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## markba633csi (Sep 2, 2018)

Watch for the "estate sale" batches of endmills on ebay, I put together a nice collection of HSS mills, many brand new for less than 75$
Some of course will be dull but overall good value when you are starting out and might break/dull a few anyhow
Mark
ps I have also tried the cheap chinese ones from alibaba and they work but are easy to fracture- very brittle


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## BaronJ (Sep 2, 2018)

Hi Mark,

Fortunately I've not had that experience.  I've had the flute edges rubbed off when trying to machine SS.  Horrible stuff...


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## GunsOfNavarone (Sep 2, 2018)

Yeah, if I buy Chinese, it will have to be through someone reputable (Grizzly or LittleMachineShop) not ebay and definitely not shipping from China. I guess I'll go with this Colorado Mold Supply as my main/reliable set and perhaps some singles from Amazon. I'm easily looking at $500 for 10 ish tools. Once I have a decent set, I can afford the time to search ebay for the steal that comes along. I just don't have enough of a selection to wait it out..


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## Cobra (Sep 2, 2018)

Decent quality and good prices -- CDCO Machinery
Chinese tools shipped from IL.


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## john.oliver35 (Sep 2, 2018)

If you are staying away from Ebay, and want American HSS, try going to Amazon and browse everything they have in stock from Niagara.  Usually there are some pieces on sale.  One advantage we have as hobbyists is that we only need a mill or two at a time, and frequently don't care much about the specific length.


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## P. Waller (Sep 2, 2018)

You have not hinted at what material or milling operations you require.

This is like asking the questions, I need to buy a rock, which one?
Where is the cheapest place to buy a rock for unknown purposes?


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## GunsOfNavarone (Sep 2, 2018)

P. Waller said:


> You have not hinted at what material or milling operations you require.
> 
> This is like asking the questions, I need to buy a rock, which one?
> Where is the cheapest place to buy a rock for unknown purposes?


Fair enough. Mostly mild steel, under an inch thick. Now that I have the lathe and the mill i see how many doors are open. I might build a space shuttle, albeit the crappiest space shuttle you've ever seen! There will be some aluminum and I will get a few one offs for that, but steel is my best friend for sure...good old hot rolled, mill scaled steel!


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## GunsOfNavarone (Sep 2, 2018)

I did pick up a few things to get the ball rolling...I would recommend looking at these guy's catalog...they talk about the technology that goes into their tool designs...they may be my go to tool supplier...and I pass them everyday on the way to work!


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## GunsOfNavarone (Sep 2, 2018)

Take a look...
Catalog


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## 9t8z28 (Sep 2, 2018)

I cannot find Seller carbidetoolco   Are you sure thats the exact name?   Are you sure it’s not mara_industrial  ?   When they post an item for sale they put the description MC Carbide Tool Co
http://www.ebay.com/usr/mara_industrial?_trksid=p2047675.l2559


pacifica said:


> An ebay seller: carbidetoolco. sells 1/2"  stub refurbished carbide end mills, $6.83. I have some and they are excellent.American made, leave a great finish.


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## francist (Sep 2, 2018)




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## 9t8z28 (Sep 2, 2018)

Thank you. I am horrible at searching eBay !   I had to google search how to find eBay sellers.   Nice find !   I’ll definitely be sending some business their way 


francist said:


> View attachment 274825


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## TomS (Sep 2, 2018)

I buy 90% of my end mills from All Industrial Tool.  allindustrial.com

Their pricing is reasonable and shipping cost is very good.


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## 81husky (Sep 2, 2018)

I buy Niagara from KBC Tools, but I'll check out All Industrial.


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## Jubil (Sep 2, 2018)

Probably not the best, but I bought a 20 piece set (3/16 - 3/4) of 2 & 4 flute titanium nitride coated HSS end Mills from Harbor Freight for $79.95. Thus far I am pleased with them, but as a hobbiest I am in no hurry and don't crowd things.


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## TerryH (Sep 2, 2018)

Jubil said:


> Probably not the best, but I bought a 20 piece set (3/16 - 3/4) of 2 & 4 flute titanium nitride coated HSS end Mills from Harbor Freight for $79.95. Thus far I am pleased with them, but as a hobbiest I am in no hurry and don't crowd things.



I believe this to be the same set on Ebay. I used a 15% off Ebay day to get it for $46 and change shipped. The box was broken when I recieved it so they gave me $20 back. Didn't see how to go wtong after all that. Agree that they are probably not the best but so far so good.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-20-pcs-4-2-Flute-HSS-Titanium-Tin-Coated-Square-End-Mill-Set-3-16-3-4/172101206337?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


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## GunsOfNavarone (Sep 3, 2018)

Everybody seems to offer that set, I'll get for practice purposes...
I believe that is this set from Amazon, $45 & free shipping.
Amazon 10 piece set


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## BaronJ (Sep 3, 2018)

Hi Guys,

Someone made a comment about buying steel !  I get most of mine from either the local engineering workshop scrap box or the scrapyard.  If I need something specific the engineering workshop always seems to be able to sort something out, and don't charge me an arm and a leg for it.  Often cutting a piece from stock.


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## killswitch505 (Sep 3, 2018)

I’ve had a lot of good luck with the “Kodiak Cutting Tools” brand off of Amazon


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## Ken from ontario (Sep 3, 2018)

I have bought most of my end mills and taps from From our local Fastenal .
Every couple of weeks I just check to see what's on sale on their site , there are pages  after pages to go through so I just scroll down each page quickly looking for  anything in red, which means 1/3rd or 1/4 of the actual price, then call the store and order it. you can pick your order up at the store for minimal shipping cost, if not free.
https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0327412?pageno=3&r=~|categoryl1:"601071 Cutting Tools and Metalworking"|~ ~|categoryl2:"601093 Milling Products"|~ ~|categoryl3:"601094 Square End Mills"|~ ~|manufacturer:^"NIAGARA CUTTER"$|~
https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/3187604
https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/3148720

I would first thou call the nearest fastenal store and find out if they sell to general public ( without a business account), the one in our small city  sells to anyone but do charge slightly higher than what they charge businesses who buy in bulk.


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## ddickey (Sep 3, 2018)

If you work for a company that buys and has an account with Fastenal sometimes you can get added to the account.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Sep 3, 2018)

ddickey said:


> If you work for a company that buys and has an account with Fastenal sometimes you can get added to the account.


Good call on Fastenal...looks like good product and there is one down in the city...thanks!


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## 9t8z28 (Sep 3, 2018)

I have 2 of these sets.  The first one I got from HF and the second set from LMS.  The boxes are identical but the end mills are different.  The helix angles are more aggressive on the LMS 2 flutes.  Theres almost no twist to the flutes.  The HF 4 flutes are better than the LMS 4 flutes.  They are harder and have a better coating.  I really think it just depends on who they were able to get them from that week.  They arent bad at all, especially for a beginner.  I’ve had both sets for about 2 years now.  Its nice to have a wide range of fractional sizes at such a low cost.  You almost always have the right end mill except when it comes to needed longer flutes or if your working with harder material.  I was able to mill a shallow slot on my hardened AXA parting tool holder with one of the small 4 flutes.  It wound up milling it very nicely but it was shot after that.


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## 9t8z28 (Sep 3, 2018)

I have 2 of these sets.  The first one I got from HF and the second set from LMS.  The boxes are identical but the end mills are different.  The helix angles are more aggressive on the LMS 2 flutes.  Theres almost no twist to the flutes.  The HF 4 flutes are better than the LMS 4 flutes.  They are harder and have a better coating.  I really think it just depends on who they were able to get them from that week.  They arent bad at all, especially for a beginner.  I’ve had both sets for about 2 years now.  Its nice to have a wide range of fractional sizes at such a low cost.  You almost always have the right end mill except when it comes to needed longer flutes or if your working with harder material.  I was able to mill a shallow slot on my hardened AXA parting tool holder with one of the small 4 flutes.  It wound up milling it very nicely but it was shot after that.  



Jubil said:


> Probably not the best, but I bought a 20 piece set (3/16 - 3/4) of 2 & 4 flute titanium nitride coated HSS end Mills from Harbor Freight for $79.95. Thus far I am pleased with them, but as a hobbiest I am in no hurry and don't crowd things.


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## pacifica (Sep 4, 2018)

I quit buying the inexpensive end mills because I've had two 3/4" HSS steel chinese mills break in half under .005" cuts, 1 piece went flying!
Learned my lesson.


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## JStarks (Sep 5, 2018)

john.oliver35 said:


> If you are staying away from Ebay, and want American HSS, try going to Amazon and browse everything they have in stock from Niagara.  Usually there are some pieces on sale.  One advantage we have as hobbyists is that we only need a mill or two at a time, and frequently don't care much about the specific length.



Amazon apparently had a major snafu in a database join for end mill pricing a while back, I picked up a bunch of Niagra, some SGS Kyocera and a couple of Hanita carbide end mills in various shapes sizes and coatings. Close to 6 grand worth of tooling for $700, that made it especially painful  when UPS lost 3 of them in transit that one envelope was worth almost a grand, I spent $50 and since they weren't stocked by Amazon all I received was a refund, no replacement.

Back on topic check JERRAY tools on Amazon, I have a couple of their carbide roughing end mills, they are some metal eating beasts and have done very well for me, I had one break right off the bat and they refunded my money when I asked about a replacement. I bought it again and was glad I did.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Sep 5, 2018)

pacifica said:


> I quit buying the inexpensive end mills because I've had two 3/4" HSS steel chinese mills break in half under .005" cuts, 1 piece went flying!
> Learned my lesson.


Yeah, this is my fear not to mention dulling as soon as the tool hits steel. Looks like I'll buy a few cheap cutters, but it can really make learning more difficult versus a high end make/model/brand. After i get my wings, who knows? Maybe its like being a parent, your first you baby and protect, by second your letting them play on a median!


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## GunsOfNavarone (Sep 5, 2018)

Thanks for all the input guys, this mill and lathe install and getting up and running is burning through my expendable income like a monkey on a banana. I dont mind rolling the dice on the unknown sometimes, but i have SO MUCH i need right now, buying twice isn't in the cards.


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## BaronJ (Sep 6, 2018)

I only buy what I need to do the job I'm doing now !  Otherwise I make the cutters/tools that I need.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Sep 6, 2018)

BaronJ said:


> I only buy what I need to do the job I'm doing now !  Otherwise I make the cutters/tools that I need.


You make cutters?? For the Mill? Wha...how...i....what metal do you use? How do you harden it? I'm impressed!! I didnt know that was even possible!


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## BaronJ (Sep 7, 2018)

Yes ! why not.

The cutters that you need will depend upon the job you want to do.
No hardening involved.  You simply grab broken taps, lathe tools, almost anything using HSS and adapt it to suit.
My most used mill tool is a fly cutter.  I done slots, dovetails, rebates etc with one.  I did post pictures of a dovetail slide that I made, done entirely with a fly cutter.  OK I did use a drill and a tap, but that was all.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Sep 7, 2018)

BaronJ said:


> Yes ! why not.
> 
> The cutters that you need will depend upon the job you want to do.
> No hardening involved.  You simply grab broken taps, lathe tools, almost anything using HSS and adapt it to suit.
> My most used mill tool is a fly cutter.  I done slots, dovetails, rebates etc with one.  I did post pictures of a dovetail slide that I made, done entirely with a fly cutter.  OK I did use a drill and a tap, but that was all.


I'll have to see if i can find your thread, and WTH are you up at 2:20 in the morning??!?


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## Buffalo21 (Sep 7, 2018)

killswitch505 said:


> I’ve had a lot of good luck with the “Kodiak Cutting Tools” brand off of Amazon




 the Kodiak Cutting Tool office is about 5 miles from my house


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## BaronJ (Sep 8, 2018)

Hi there Guns,

Oh you noticed that 
At my age my bladder wakes me up at some very strange hours !
On the other hand, I grab some Zzzz at srange hours too.

Now where is that post I made:

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/using-a-fly-cutter.72418/#post-607858

Here you go !  It also shows some of the tools I have made.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Sep 8, 2018)

Thanks Baron, doesn't it matter what kind of steel is used for the actual cutting bit? I mean, you wouldn't want to grab a piece of mild steel square stock and make even a bit for a flycutter...would you? I mean you need a steel harder than the base material your cutting? I notice on my different pocket knifes, some stay sharp for a long time, some dull quickly. So the material is key there. I inherited some nice chisels and read up how to maintain them...there is a method to sharpening and heat treating tgem...


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## BaronJ (Sep 8, 2018)

Hi Guns,

As I mentioned before, just take advantage of any tool steel that you can lay hands on.  Its surprising how much you can find just thrown out for scrap.

And yes you are right, the kind and quality of the steel that you use for knife making is important, in fact any tool that has to maintain a sharp edge has to have sufficient hardness and yet not be so brittle as to snap under load.  The old chisels that you mention, I have a few myself,  are high carbon steel and need to be protected from getting hot when sharpening.  Once the edge has been overheated it wont keep that edge for very long.
Modern chisels are much better in this respect, but don't seem to be as sharp somehow.  The same applies to smoothing plane blades.

I saw something quite recently about a guy that was buying old bed springs and cutting up into bits so he could melt them and make knife blades from the steel.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Sep 8, 2018)

Its funny, when you first starting talking about making your own tools, since we were talking end mill sourcing,i was picturing you making a 4 flute, 1/2" , cobalt cutter. I am unsure if i can even sharpen my own tools at this point, though i have Japanese stones for my knives and i am decent with that, this is a whole new monkey.


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## BaronJ (Sep 8, 2018)

Hi Guns,

Oh dear !  I feel that I may have disappointed you !
Here is a picture of an 1/2" end cutter that I made:


Before anybody says, its chipped !  Yes it is !  That is what you get for dropping them onto a tile floor. 
Still there are three other edges to go at.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Sep 8, 2018)

In theory, now I'm considering this, seems like you could make a tool that uses indexable carbide inserts? That would have to be as good as anything out there. (I mean as long as you are not a nipple head & you understand cutting angles and such... I do not, but I'm sure plenty folks here do.) I just got the set that is sold under so many brand names:
End mill set,
And it works, but NO WHERE as well as the tools i got from Colorado Mold Supply, but that whole kit is about the price as ONE 1/2" cobalt tool from the USA manufacturer i am speaking of. Whats more important ? I tell you, it is far more satisfying watching/listening and appreciating the job the expensive tools do, but this IS a hobby. It costs and brings no money in. I guess I'll have to pick up more work as an underwear model to offset my habit!


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## BaronJ (Sep 8, 2018)

Guns,

That set of slot drills looks like the ones they give away over here to sell a new mill.  
There are enormous differences in cheap Chinese and Chinese cutters, even more so if you include India.  If you buy from the bay and amazon you get what you pay for !  Unfortunately due to the trade war buying from the better quality Chinese manufactures is becoming as expensive as buying from home manufactures.  Its going to get worse because an awful lot of home manufacturing is actually imported from abroad.

For us in the UK, Brexit is like Damocles sword.


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## 8mpg (Sep 8, 2018)

Let me preface this by saying Im new to machining but I have been watching tons of videos for years on youtube. Recently stumbled upon some decent channels that have been reviewing end mills and carbide from a compnay called banggood. Chinese stuff but they have had some pretty good results. I planned on ordering a face mill and some carbide inserts from them.


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## 9t8z28 (Sep 8, 2018)

I have seen a bunch of reviews on products from Banggood as well.  Most are good and very little are bad.  They get honest reviews and a lot of it is Banggood donating their products to youtube creators to get their name out there.  I have considered their facemill but I have heard that it doesnt perform very well.  I think it was due to the geometry of the insert pocket.   I may be wrong and please do correct me if I am wrong.   I read somewhere I think here, where someone posted about a good face mill for a decent price. I wish I could remember where it was .  I think maybe Piere’s Garage on youtube did a review on the facemill as well.   I know he does a lot of Banggood product reviews.


8mpg said:


> Let me preface this by saying Im new to machining but I have been watching tons of videos for years on youtube. Recently stumbled upon some decent channels that have been reviewing end mills and carbide from a compnay called banggood. Chinese stuff but they have had some pretty good results. I planned on ordering a face mill and some carbide inserts from them.


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## 8mpg (Sep 8, 2018)

Piere did a review on the banggood face mill. Some complaints from others were that only a couple inserts were contacting. He showed that all the teeth were contacting on his.


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## BaronJ (Sep 9, 2018)

8mpg said:


> Let me preface this by saying Im new to machining but I have been watching tons of videos for years on youtube. Recently stumbled upon some decent channels that have been reviewing end mills and carbide from a compnay called banggood. Chinese stuff but they have had some pretty good results. I planned on ordering a face mill and some carbide inserts from them.



Before you buy a face mill,  have a look at this post, entry No:8

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/using-a-fly-cutter.72418/#post-607858

It shows one of the fly cutters that I made !


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## killswitch505 (Sep 9, 2018)

Buffalo21 said:


> the Kodiak Cutting Tool office is about 5 miles from my house


Man I’d try to buddy up with one of their salesman


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## ddickey (Sep 9, 2018)

Or sneak around there recycling bin.


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## Buffalo21 (Sep 9, 2018)

The end mills I have bought from Kodiak, are very similar in appearance and packaging, of those I buy from Titan USA. As the Kodak office is in a small strip mall, with a dentist and accountant (IIRC), they are a seller, not a manufacturer, they say made in the USA, Titan USA is in Massachusett, I maybe wrong, but I doubt it.

This not to slur Kodiak, they seem like a good supplier.


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## pstemari (Sep 10, 2018)

If you're going to Amazon, look for the Niagara Cutter endmills. They are top notch and Amazon has good prices.

Beyond that, for carbide I'd go to Lakeshore Carbide or Maritool. For HSS, maybe KBC or MSC, but stay away from the house brands like Interstate. OSG, Niagara, etc are fine.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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