# No fun turning a 22mm deep socket



## Gaffer (Nov 21, 2021)

I had an HUA moment, all too frequently lately, and posted this on top of woodfab's bandsaw posting. 

I received the 3" wheel spacers for my Kubota. Excited, I grabbed my tools and spacers and drove 1.5 hours to our lot in Oceanside where the tractor resides and we prepare to build our retirement home.







 I should have checked my 22mm socket in the spacer first, but never thought it wouldn't fit. It didn't. It wasn't an entirely wasted trip, but I learned a valuable lesson. When I returned home, I ordered the thinnest walled 22mm deep socket I could find. It showed up on my doorstep this morning, but the OD was too big to fit.

Keep in mind, I'm a novice at machining, but had prepared myself that I might have to turn the socket to fit. I used this carbide tool on my Colchester Master 6.5. There's a picture of the business end of the tool in the next photo. I tested it on some scrap before taking it to the socket and it performed fine.                                            




I chucked up the socket and found it to be disappointing and the finished product is embarrassing. It fits and hopefully won't break when I torque the spacers to spec. I think I'll be fine. I've read posts before about members turning chrome tools and it was difficult, but I don't remember what was discussed to make it better. My lathe's max RPM is 1,000 and that's what I used, and fed by hand. Lots of heat and a rats nest. I played with DOC between .005 and .010, and it didn't seem to make much difference though I experienced deflection at the unsupported end. I made several passes and tried a .002 finish pass. It fits fine with the slightest, I'm guessing a thou or two of clearance, that I hope will be enough to fit onto the lug nuts.                                            




I'm a little surprised the spacer manufacturer didn't say anything about a special socket, but I'll email them to see what they say. I doubt I'm the first person to experience this. Their machine work is excellent.                                            




Thanks for looking and your suggestions.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 21, 2021)

What are the spacers for ? I have to ask as I own a Kubota FEL .


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## Gaffer (Nov 21, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> What are the spacers for ? I have to ask as I own a Kubota FEL .


Added stability by spacing the rear tires. My lot has several slopes, and I tipped her over. I'm going to load the tires with water too. It never freezes there, so I don't have that worry. I was surprised how easy it tipped over. No injuries and no damage, other than to my ego. When it happened, the bucket was low to the ground pushing debris, and I had made several passes with no issue. The left front tire went over debris and I guess the addition to the mild slope I was on was enough to send her over. I chalk it up to inexperience as this is my first tractor. Fortunately, my truck pulled her upright without breaking a sweat.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 21, 2021)

Holy HELL ! With a grader box on the back yet ? I can pull the rear wheels out 3 " but it put's out past 48" . My rear tires are filled , and I can add weights on the ass end , but she still wasn't up to a Johnson bandsaw I tried to lift .   We won't talk about the post hole digger .........................

Is/was that a BX , B or and L series ? I would like to move up to a 40 HP L model one day if I get up north . But regardless , that's a downed Bota , which I hate to see .


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## woodchucker (Nov 21, 2021)

*glad you are ok.* There are many who die from that.  Lost a guy I used to go to his shop , and one day I read about him rolling it over on top of him.

I would worry about plain water rusting the hubs, at least antifreeze and other solutions I think keep the wheels from rusting. But I'll let others who are more knowledgeable weigh in on that.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 21, 2021)

Antifreeze in the rear tire Chucker .


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## RJSakowski (Nov 21, 2021)

I am extra cautious when on a slope with either of my two tractors or the riding lawn mower.  The 8N has the lowest center of gravity and is the most stable but I still negotiate a hillside going straight up or down.  The Cub Cadet riding mower specified a maximum tilt of 15º and I have thought about making a simple tilt indicator for use on hillsides.


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## Gaffer (Nov 21, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> Holy HELL ! With a grader box on the back yet ? I can pull the rear wheels out 3 " but it put's out past 48" . My rear tires are filled , and I can add weights on the ass end , but she still wasn't up to a Johnson bandsaw I tried to lift .   We won't talk about the post hole digger .........................
> 
> Is/was that a BX , B or and L series ? I would like to move up to a 40 HP L model one day if I get up north . But regardless , that's a downed Bota , which I hate to see .


She's a B2650. I wish I had more HP too, but it wasn't in the financial cards.


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## RJSakowski (Nov 21, 2021)

Tractors usually use saturated calcium chloride.  It is more dense than water or antifreeze solution and won't freeze.  But rear tractor tire usually have inner tubes.  Calcium chloride is worse than rock salt for corrosion.


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## Gaffer (Nov 21, 2021)

woodchucker said:


> *glad you are ok.* There are many who die from that.  Lost a guy I used to go to his shop , and one day I read about him rolling it over on top of him.
> 
> I would worry about plain water rusting the hubs, at least antifreeze and other solutions I think keep the wheels from rusting. But I'll let others who are more knowledgeable weigh in on that.


Thanks, I always wear the seatbelt. As soon as I felt her going over, I made sure my arms and legs were inside and prayed for the best.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 21, 2021)

Oh , cool . I had the B7610 and finished up a job and sold it . I now have a B7510 Turf Special which I bought 2 weeks after selling the 76 . Don't know what I was thinking when I sold it . I use it every day , I have the rake on it now and just did the garden out back . You gotta love the Botas !


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## mmcmdl (Nov 21, 2021)

This is right up my alley Gaf . I buried the 7610 up in NY when I dropped it into a skidder groove . Took alot of beer and the help of the F250 to yank it out .  I just saw the pics last week of it stuck in mud up to the seat .


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## Gaffer (Nov 21, 2021)

RJSakowski said:


> Tractors usually use saturated calcium chloride.  It is more dense than water or antifreeze solution and won't freeze.  But rear tractor tire usualkly have inner tubes.  Calcium chloride is worse than rock salt for corrosion.


I did quite a bit of research on loading tires, and Kubota recommends, at least in my manual, to use calcium chloride. My area never freezes, and I don't think I'll need the extra weight it provides. I'm going at this by trial and error.


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## Gaffer (Nov 21, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> Oh , cool . I had the B7610 and finished up a job and sold it . I now have a B7510 Turf Special which I bought 2 weeks after selling the 76 . Don't know what I was thinking when I sold it . I use it every day , I have the rake on it now and just did the garden out back . You gotta love the Botas !


Yeah, they are great tractors. A rake will be the next implement I get. I also see a tiller in my near future.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 21, 2021)

Well at least your partner may have been there with his/her tennis ball . All is good .


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## mmcmdl (Nov 21, 2021)

I got the stump grinder out of Woodland Mills last year . Quality piece and I'll recommend it with no connections to them . There just toys for tots ...............................


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## mmcmdl (Nov 21, 2021)

As much as I like to talk about the old machining , I'm more into this . Land clearing , tree cutting etc . It gets my blood flowing .


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## C-Bag (Nov 22, 2021)

woodchucker said:


> *glad you are ok.* There are many who die from that. Lost a guy I used to go to his shop , and one day I read about him rolling it over on top of him.


Ditto. Lost a good friends wife to flipping their Kubota. They were using it to clear manzanita and they think her foot slipped off the clutch. Flipped backwards and she didn’t have her seatbelt on  

I love doing tractor work but gotta keep that situational awareness cranked up to 11.


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## NC Rick (Nov 22, 2021)

Did you turn the socket with carbide or HSS?  chrome wants you to get underneath it right away. Carbide and not so fast? I have turned a few sockets without problems.  When I have the choice, I will use a decent quality impact socket, my thinking being the steel is tougher so better able to deal with the thinner section. I could be kidding myself.  I have plenty of chrome ones turned down.  The initial tool pressure is high to get under the chrome.


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## RandyWilson (Nov 22, 2021)

I had to turn a socket to fit down the spark plug well of the wife's car. It didn't last. You might consider something like these. I guessed M14x1.5 thread, but there are many options on thread and length out there.









						32 Chrome Spline Lug Nuts m14x1.5 Fits Ram 2500 3500 Heavy Duty + Security Key  | eBay
					

Thread Pitch: 14x1.5 / M14x1.5 / 14mm x 1.5. We will be happy to help! Lug nuts have two compatibilities, one to match the lug nut thread size to the vehicle's wheel studs and the other to match the lug nut style to the wheel.



					www.ebay.com


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## C-Bag (Nov 22, 2021)

Would this been have been something that needed the grinder?


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## tq60 (Nov 22, 2021)

To avoid rust, use an inner tube as a liner.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


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## Just for fun (Nov 22, 2021)

I'm glad your didn't get hurt.

My tractor has what they refer to as beet juice in the rear tires.


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## Stonebriar (Nov 22, 2021)

My Kubota you can mount the tires to the tractor on either side of the rims. One way makes the width wider. The rear is 79" wide mounted the widest way.


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## Gaffer (Nov 22, 2021)

NC Rick said:


> Did you turn the socket with carbide or HSS?  chrome wants you to get underneath it right away. Carbide and not so fast? I have turned a few sockets without problems.  When I have the choice, I will use a decent quality impact socket, my thinking being the steel is tougher so better able to deal with the thinner section. I could be kidding myself.  I have plenty of chrome ones turned down.  The initial tool pressure is high to get under the chrome.


I used carbide. Perhaps 1,000 RPM was a bit much and my initial cut of 5 thou was too little. I thought about turning my impact socket and decided against it. I like Randy's recommendation and am going to see if I can find a set that fits my lugs. I fear the socket will break and I'll have to buy and turn another to get the nut back.


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## Gaffer (Nov 22, 2021)

RandyWilson said:


> I had to turn a socket to fit down the spark plug well of the wife's car. It didn't last. You might consider something like these. I guessed M14x1.5 thread, but there are many options on thread and length out there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a great idea. I'm going to look into it. Thanks


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## Gaffer (Nov 22, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> I'm glad your didn't get hurt.
> 
> My tractor has what they refer to as beet juice in the rear tires.


I was going to go that route, but the closest dealers are about 8 hours from me and not worth it to me. Thanks


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## RJSakowski (Nov 22, 2021)

The inner tubes for my tractor rear wheels all have two piece valve stems.  The outer portion of the stem has a nut for securely fastening to the rim.  It also has a larger bore to facilitate filling with liquid ballast.  When the proper amount of ballast has been added, the inner portion containing the standard Schroeder valve is installed and the tire inflated to proper pressure.



Beet juice is used as an antifreeze.  There is little advantage over water from the standpoint of additional weight.  If freezing isn't an issue, I would just use water.


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## homebrewed (Nov 22, 2021)

If you decide to mix up your own calcium chloride solution, you need to know that, while the freezing point of CaCl2 + water solutions starts decreasing with increasing concentration, it reaches a minimum of about -45F at a concentration of only 30% CaCl2.  Above that concentration, the freezing point actually increases -- and not by a trivial amount.  At a concentration of 57%, the freezing point is ABOVE 32F -- something like 42F.  I was very surprised when I saw that some water solutions could freeze above 32F but apparently it can happen!

Google "calcium chloride-water phase diagram".  I have a document with the phase diagram, but, since I don't know if it's copyrighted or not, I won't attach it.   The title of the document is "CaCl2 solution properties.pdf" and is available from the Occidental Chemical Corporation.

The solution used for tractor tires probably has other stuff in it to depress the freezing point, along with rust inhibitors.  This application is one where DIY probably is not a great idea.


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## Manual Mac (Nov 22, 2021)

My records show I bought new rear wheels for my 2002 Kubota B7500 in 2015 with 700 hrs on it as the wheel around the valve stems was badly rusted from the calcium chloride fill. Yes I had inner tubes, rusted anyway.
To be fair I live in a wet climate, but Mr. Orange is kept in a dry barn when not in use.
At the time the dealer nearest me did not fill tires. They told me they take them to a tire store, that’s what I did.
I used beet juice this time.
Also the b7500 (same tractor as MMCMD has, but couple yrs older) has rear hubs that are adjustable each for 3” width. 6” total. I leave at widest, as I also have hilly property.
For reference my manual states to always have a seat belt on if the ROPS is up.
If the ROPS is folded down, or no ROPS, do not wear the seat belt.
As always YMMV.    Cheers


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## woodchucker (Nov 22, 2021)

Manual Mac said:


> For reference my manual states to always have a seat belt on if the ROPS is up.
> If the ROPS is folded down, do not wear the seat belt.


makes sense, they are hoping you get thrown far enough away if the roll over protection is not in place.


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## rabler (Nov 22, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> I'm glad your didn't get hurt.
> 
> My tractor has what they refer to as beet juice in the rear tires.


That’s what mine has


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## mmcmdl (Nov 22, 2021)

My current 7510 doesn't have the foldable ROPS while the 7610 did . At home , I never where the belt as I'm always on flat ground . Up north , I wear it as I have some deep ruts and always seem to be over working the tractor . I have an 06 and only have 420 hrs on the meter , but I do use it every day . I have to take the rake off in an hour so it'll fit back into its' spot in the garage .


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## rabler (Nov 22, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> My current 7510 doesn't have the foldable ROPS while the 7610 did . At home , I never where the belt as I'm always on flat ground . Up north , I wear it as I have some deep ruts and always seem to be over working the tractor . I have an 06 and only have 420 hrs on the meter , but I do use it every day . I have to take the rake off in an hour so it'll fit back into its' spot in the garage .


Had a 7610 until about three years ago.  My wife called it the kaboodle, she drove it daily for spreading manure.  We upgraded to a significantly bigger spreader, and the 7610 got traded in slong with another tractor when I got the excavator.

Unfortunately the 7610 had originally been put together by a ham handed mechanic at the dealer, which resulted in several problems over the years.  I remember they couldn’t get the undermount mower to clear the rear tires on initial assembly and had rigged it odd.  Real Problem was rear tires had over 50psi in them.

I wish I had it back now.  I’d put a pto generator on it as a backup for house/shop.


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## BROCKWOOD (Nov 22, 2021)

Out of curiosity is 'beet juice' a brand or juice from the vegetable?


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## mmcmdl (Nov 22, 2021)

I have the 60" undermount deck but I tore it off when I acquired the tractor . I'll never use it to cut grass as I have the zero turns .  I use the rake , grader box , posthole digger and stump grinder often . As far as the pto driven generator , yaeh , 18,000 watt would be nice . These things sip the fuel . 


rabler said:


> Had a 7610 until about three years ago. My wife called it the kaboodle, she drove it daily for spreading manure. We upgraded to a significantly bigger spreader, and the 7610 got traded in slong with another tractor when I got the excavator.
> 
> Unfortunately the 7610 had originally been put together by a ham handed mechanic at the dealer, which resulted in several problems over the years. I remember they couldn’t get the undermount mower to clear the rear tires on initial assembly and had rigged it odd. Real Problem was rear tires had over 50psi in them.
> 
> I wish I had it back now. I’d put a pto generator on it as a backup for house/shop.


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## rabler (Nov 22, 2021)

BROCKWOOD said:


> Out of curiosity is 'beet juice' a brand or juice from the vegetable?


Juice from beets.  I believe it is a remanant from sugar beets?


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## RJSakowski (Nov 22, 2021)

BROCKWOOD said:


> Out of curiosity is 'beet juice' a brand or juice from the vegetable?


It has been used mixed with road salt for winter deicing.  Unfortunately,  as although it melts the ice, it tends tends to leave a slippery mess.  Apparently, it has reduced freezing point lowering capability on its own

No hard knowledge, but I believe it comes from the western sugar beet industry.





						Sugar Beets | Missouri Department of Transportation
					






					www.modot.org


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## BROCKWOOD (Nov 22, 2021)

I can see it now RJSakowski, "We de-iced the road Sir." So why is there a 72 car pile up? "Well, the de-icer was slipperier than the ice!" LOL


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## rabler (Nov 22, 2021)

Duplicate post


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## Steve-F (Nov 22, 2021)

I just saw this thread......without disclosing  the super secret location, roughly where in Oceanside...we have lived in Vista for over 40 years, right next door to you


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## matthewsx (Nov 22, 2021)

No worries about tires freezing in Oceanside  

The thing I'd be worried about with the modified socket is getting the lug nuts off later. Is it possible to get lug nuts that have an internal (Allen or Torx) drive? Seems like that would be a better solution for this problem.

John


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## RJSakowski (Nov 22, 2021)

BROCKWOOD said:


> I can see it now RJSakowski, "We de-iced the road Sir." So why is there a 72 car pile up? "Well, the de-icer was slipperier than the ice!" LOL


It is the truth.  When Madison switched to the beet juice deicer vs. salt and sand, accidents did a sharp up-tick.  When conditions are too cold for salt to melt, at least there was some traction from the grit.


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## Gaffer (Nov 22, 2021)

Steve-F said:


> I just saw this thread......without disclosing  the super secret location, roughly where in Oceanside...we have lived in Vista for over 40 years, right next door to you


I'm a stone's throw away in South Morro Hills. Dave, my neighbor behind me moved in a little over a year ago, and he was from Vista.


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## RJSakowski (Nov 22, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> No worries about tires freezing in Oceanside
> 
> The thing I'd be worried about with the modified socket is getting the lug nuts off later. Is it possible to get lug nuts that have an internal (Allen or Torx) drive? Seems like that would be a better solution for this problem.
> 
> John


One has to wonder what was going on in the design and manufacturing of these aftermarket parts.  A larger counterbore would eliminate the problem.


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## RJSakowski (Nov 22, 2021)

I just took a look at our tractor (Nortrac) and it uses bolts instead of studs and nuts.  Replacing the hex head vbolts with socket head cap screws would work in that case.


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## extropic (Nov 22, 2021)

Gaffer said:


> <snip
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm wondering if the socket you're holding (in the picture) fits the lug nuts pictured?

I was hoping that the nuts have a reduced hex size (smaller than stock nuts) and are intended to be used in the counterbores (with a standard impact socket).

If I had bought spacers that wouldn't accept a standard diameter socket, I would have started with a serious conversation with a representative of the manufacturer. Requiring special tools is defective design in this case.

Regardless, slather plenty of anitseize compound on all the studs to prevent corrosion. What are you going to do if any of those buried nuts gets rusted on? That modified socket will probably split without a lot of torque applied.


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## Gaffer (Nov 22, 2021)

extropic said:


> I'm wondering if the socket you're holding (in the picture) fits the lug nuts pictured?
> 
> I was hoping that the nuts have a reduced hex size (smaller than stock nuts) and are intended to be used in the counterbores (with a standard impact socket).
> 
> ...


It's funny you mention that, and I'm embarrassed that I didn't think of it. The company got back to me a little bit ago and said the nuts they provide have the same thread as my studs but are smaller and a standard socket should fit, and that's how they were intended to be installed. He said I may have to cut their studs down to fit my lug nuts. I'll know for sure this weekend. With the exception of time and money spent, I experienced turning a chrome tool.


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## extropic (Nov 22, 2021)

Gaffer said:


> It's funny you mention that, and I'm embarrassed that I didn't think of it. The company got back to me a little bit ago and said the nuts they provide have the same thread as my studs but are smaller and a standard socket should fit, and that's how they were intended to be installed. I'll know for sure this weekend. With the exception of time and money spent, I experienced turning a chrome tool.



Take anitseize compound with you. Plenty of paper towels/rags too.  SERIOUSLY!


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## tjb (Nov 22, 2021)

Gaffer said:


> With the exception of time and money spent, I experienced turning a chrome tool.


That's called tuition.


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## Steve-F (Nov 22, 2021)

Gaffer said:


> I'm a stone's throw away in South Morro Hills. Dave, my neighbor behind me moved in a little over a year ago, and he was from Vista.


Ah! Good spot !! Close to the harbor too! We go there ever weekend


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## homebrewed (Nov 23, 2021)

Manual Mac said:


> My records show I bought new rear wheels for my 2002 Kubota B7500 in 2015 with 700 hrs on it as the wheel around the valve stems was badly rusted from the calcium chloride fill. Yes I had inner tubes, rusted anyway.
> To be fair I live in a wet climate, but Mr. Orange is kept in a dry barn when not in use.
> At the time the dealer nearest me did not fill tires. They told me they take them to a tire store, that’s what I did.
> I used beet juice this time.
> ...


We've got a JD tractor with calcium-filled tires here in western Oregon and rust is definitely an issue due to the almost-constant humidity in the winter.  I had to replace the valve-stem guts to keep air (and calcium solution) from leaking out through the valves.  Valve stem caps with seals are a good backup.  It appears that garden-variety Schrader valve-stem parts aren't all that resistant to corrosion, so a backup is a good idea.

I always rotate the tires so the valve stem is on top before I check the tire pressure, and briefly depress the valve to blow CaCl2 out of the valve -- otherwise some solution can find its way into the pressure tester and corrode it.  Probably nothing new to anyone who owns a tractor with calcium-filled tires....


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## Gaffer (Nov 25, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> Holy HELL ! With a grader box on the back yet ? I can pull the rear wheels out 3 " but it put's out past 48" . My rear tires are filled , and I can add weights on the ass end , but she still wasn't up to a Johnson bandsaw I tried to lift .   We won't talk about the post hole digger .........................
> 
> Is/was that a BX , B or and L series ? I would like to move up to a 40 HP L model one day if I get up north . But regardless , that's a downed Bota , which I hate to see .


Put them on yesterday. And I found the rear tires are loaded, but maybe only 25% or so.


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## Manual Mac (Nov 25, 2021)

These are shots of Mr. Orange. 2002 B7500. 
This was Kubota option for wheel spacing for my B. Guess they no longer uses this hub widening option? Liability? Dunno.
Do your lug bolts go through the actual hub, then the spacer & wheel? 
I have read BORA spacers are best quality. Although expensive, they are good for peace of mind & anti-capsize insurance.
Have mine set as wide as it will go with standard Kubota options, R tires 52” outside to outside.


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## NC Rick (Nov 25, 2021)

I have a little B7100 HST which also has the sliding hexagonal rear axle/ wheel setup. My tires are filled with water and antifreeze and have been like that for more than 25 years.  
I like the QC hitch.  I wonder if I could get one for mine.  I like the idea!


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## f350ca (Nov 25, 2021)

The QC hitch is a good idea but doesn't work all that well. The top hook won't line up to some implements, the width has to be correct, and the top member hits the drive shaft on some things. Have one but quit using it.

Greg


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## Meleon69 (Nov 26, 2021)

f350ca said:


> The QC hitch is a good idea but doesn't work all that well. The top hook won't line up to some implements, the width has to be correct, and the top member hits the drive shaft on some things. Have one but quit using it.
> 
> Greg


They're only good if they work with all your attachments, otherwise you lose the "quick" when you need to keep taking the Qhitch off and on along with the implement


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