# Which Qctp?



## Spike (Apr 9, 2016)

Howdy folks, me again, the clueless noob. I have been lurking around and noticed many folks with lathes similar to my QC-54 have a quick change tool post. I looked aorund online and there are many out there but none come right out and say, "this will fit a QC-54." 

So can anyone tell a guy who will need specific instruction for even the simplest task just exactly what size will fit my machine? Maybe the best place to get one for not too much money?

I know, I am cheap, but I have good reason. First, I am poor and that means I must find the best deals on my toys to justify what some would say is wasting money, and second, the lathe is technically only loaned to me unless I can work a deal on it so spending too much is for sure a waste of money.

Cheaply yours,
-Spike


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## CraigB1960 (Apr 9, 2016)

Spike said:


> So can anyone tell a guy who will need specific instruction for even the simplest task just exactly what size will fit my machine? Maybe the best place to get one for not too much money?
> 
> 
> Cheaply yours,
> -Spike



Spike,
Aloris is one of the standards on QCTP and their chart (middle of their catalog) states the your Atlas takes an AXA size tool post.  From my experience that is correct.  There are a lot of places to buy imported versions of the Aloris,  some for under $100. 

NOTE: unless you purchase one from Aloris (very expensive option)  You will have to modify the supplied t-nut to fit your lathe's slot; typically by milling it.

Here are some links for AXA tool posts.  (I have no affiliation with any of these companies.)

http://www.aloris.com

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2280&category=-419988835

http://www.cdcotools.com

http://www.shars.com/products/toolh...uick-change-tool-post-set-piston-type-100-axa

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...XA+tool+post.TRS0&_nkw=AXA+tool+post&_sacat=0


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## wa5cab (Apr 9, 2016)

Yes, the AXA or 100 Series is the correct size QCTP for an Atlas 10" or 12".


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## Nugz (Apr 9, 2016)

These guys have you covered Spike. I would just add that there is a nice FAQ section on the Aloris website that CraigB1960 mentioned. It answers many of the questions you may have about QCTP's and may prove helpful.

The AXA is a very popular size, you shouldn't have a problem unloading it later and recovering most of your investment.

-Nugz


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## Spike (Apr 9, 2016)

Great info, thanks everyone . I hope to get with the bud who owns the lathe sometime this weekend and maybe figure out it's long term situation. It's hard to pester the guy when I think maybe he in reality has given me this machine without saying as much. I sure do not want to make him regret it and change his mind. 

That being said I will be on the hunt for the QCTP you have so kindly recommended. The lathe I used occasionally at work had one and my memory tells me they are quite handy.
Thanks again everyone,
-Spike


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## Firebrick43 (Apr 16, 2016)

Have you considered metal lathe accessories MLA 23 tool post?   I have the axa with half a dozen holders and consider it to big/bulky for the atlas and the offset/overhang isn't good for for the light cross slide/compound.

When I purchased the a11 cross slide a few weeks ago from Andy I bought the tool post plans.  The tool with his design has a lot less overhang.

http://mikesworkshop.weebly.com/novel-quick-change-tool-post.html

This is a good Norman style tool post as well with even less overhang,2 tools on one block, and other than the tool slot can be all done with the lathe equipped with a 4 jaw chuck and no dovetails.


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## wa5cab (Apr 16, 2016)

But it also has some disadvantages.  For one, it doesn't appear to index automatically.  Not too critical for turning or facing tools but is critical for threading, grooving or parting tools.


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## Firebrick43 (Apr 16, 2016)

A fishtail gage takes care of all three in seconds.  

I find the index feature a hindrance most of the time on my axa as I am always having to reach for the wrench to turn the post.  I suppose it would be useful if I had production work and a lot more tool holders with dedicated tools.  

The tool room at work has all their lathes with aloris tool post in axa, bxb, and dxd sizes and they are always repositioning things for clearance and every time you turn the compound.  The all thought a single handle and having to set tool square when needed would be just fine.  

A rear mounted cutoff tool (or head mounted) is so superior any way.  Once my t slot cross slide is finished that is!  
The cut off tool is the worst for the aloris style post for overhang anyways prompting (due to the atlas light construction) me to look for an alternative to the aloris style post in the first place


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## wa5cab (Apr 17, 2016)

OK.  Different strokes...


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## cdhknives (Apr 17, 2016)

Here is what I put on my QC54:  Phase II AXA size, kit with a set of holders included.  $185 and change right now.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=4882165&PMAKA=890-9636

Works great.  Get a few extra 101 toolholders if you can, or add them as you are able.


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## tomh (Apr 17, 2016)

+1 0n enco,  If you can wait for a 20% &  free ship and get it for  148.00 +- .   The phase II AXA fit the craftsman 12x36 I had.


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## TLW (Apr 18, 2016)

First of all whether you own, rent or are borrowing a lathe of the hobby caliber do not spend the money on Alloris. Leave that stuff to the folks that make their living from machining. I mean, holy crap, they think their stuff is made from Un-obtanium or something! Typical Chinese import junk (CDCO) will serve you well, just be prepared to do some minor modifications to the holders if they don't fit quite as well as you would like. I had to sand/grind the last few holders because of poor quality control. That being said, remember QC tool holders are totally adjustable so once you have them fitting you adjust them and your done.
   More important (in my humble opinion) is your tooling. Buy well made tooling (American). If your using index-able go with the best American made you can afford. Carbide is not carbide...there is a big difference in quality. Unfortunately the industry has little control of the insert standards yet. Hopefully that will change in the future.
   I had a nice chat with Andy (CEO of Borite) today and he was lamenting over the lack of industry standards regarding tooling.. I don't work for them, nor do I get any compensation from them... all I can say is their stuff is American made right in Michigan, USA.  and the CEO was willing to school an "Ol.Fart" about index-able tooling free of charge. How can you argue with that? We actually had a few laughs together discussing how little I know about operating a lathe.

TL


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## wa5cab (Apr 20, 2016)

I agree that you probably shouldn't spend what it will cost you to go Aloris, whether new or used.  I didn't and my Yuasa 100 Series QCTP just turned 35 (about half my age).  Unfortunately, the Chinese have done about the same thing to Japanese industry that they have to US, so the Yuasa is no longer made.  But don't buy the cheapest Chinese junk, either, unless you plan to only keep your lathe a few weeks.  The dollar savings isn't work the hassle you usually have to go through to get the stuff into marginally usable condition.  Most of us are in this for fun.  And trying to make junk work ain't any fun.


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## TLW (Apr 20, 2016)

Your right, my remark regarding Chinese junk being acceptable is misleading. Not all of it is worth your time fussing with. When I posted the remark, I was thinking about my Phase II tool post. Is it the best? No. does it work? Yes. Would I like to own an Aloris? You bet! But not at a cost of $753.02 for the post and six holders. That's more than a lot of folks will spend on their lathe. The Phase II can be had $383.76 with five holders. These are new prices from Enco for the wedge type holders. Better deals can be had if you can find something used or on sale.


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## wa5cab (May 2, 2016)

Group (and especially 109/AA owners),

I came across this in mail from the Yahoo 109/AA Group.  As it has some bearing at least on what not to buy, I got the OP's permission to post it here.

******************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Well I’ve been using one of those $50 Quick Change Tool Posts on one of my small lathes for about 8 weeks now.

I’m not happy. The thing looks ok. But once you start to use the tool you see it’s shortcomings.

I’ll break this down into a few points both in Pros and Con’s to this set. Of course these are my opinions. Your milage may vary.

Pro’s:

Inexpensive. This is a fairly complete set for not a lot of money. I paid $49.95US for this set from a seller on eBay. I’ve seen them for as little as $44 elsewhere.

Completeness. There is a fairly comprehensive set of holders included. 2 normal lathe bit holders, also one each boring bar and parting tool holder. Also included were allen wrenches for the holders and a pair of bolts for mounting the tool post. All came in a good secure box with fitted hard foam tray.

Finish. These have a nice satin finish with the tool holders being anodized black. 

Con’s:

Operation of the release lever. It’s crunchy. Does not move smoothly and the lever will not stay tight no matter how I try to keep it tight. I have not applied any thread locker to it. I should not have to.

Horrible hardware. I’ve managed to strip the hex out in at least two of the set screw that hold the cutting bits. I’m not sure if the included hex wrench is off-size or the hole in the screw is off size. I’ve searched my vast collection of hex wrenches and cannot find one that fits the screws correctly. So I’m ASSuming the screws suck.

The parting blade holder is junk. After one job of cutting a piece of hex bar it has deformed at the bottom and allowed the blade to move and get jammed in the work. Now the holder is scrap… It’s made it into the scrap bin. This would have held up if made from steel.

No additional holders are available. If you want additional holders you need to buy another complete set. Although at $44 that may not be a bad solution.

The dovetail does not fit any other size/brand of QCTP. It’s narrower than 0XA size.

Summary.

If you use your lathe infrequently you will likely be happy with this QCTP. It’s inexpensive enough to justify buying for that level of work. However it must be treated with care due what I perceive as the lack of durability. 

As this is a 109 list I honestly think this setup is physically too large for these machines.

For somebody like me who uses my lathe for real work a couple sessions or more per week, this may also work for you. For me I’m just not thrilled by it. The failure of the parting holder was the final straw. 

I’ll be ordering a new steel 0XA set off eBay sometime this week.

Hope this is of help to some of you.

—
Mike N


Well I’ve been using one of those $50 Quick Change Tool Posts on one of my small lathes for about 8 weeks now.

I’m not happy. The thing looks ok. But once you start to use the tool you see it’s shortcomings.

I’ll break this down into a few points both in Pros and Con’s to this set. Of course these are my opinions. Your milage may vary.

Pro’s:

Inexpensive. This is a fairly complete set for not a lot of money. I paid $49.95US for this set from a seller on eBay. I’ve seen them for as little as $44 elsewhere.

Completeness. There is a fairly comprehensive set of holders included. 2 normal lathe bit holders, also one each boring bar and parting tool holder. Also included were allen wrenches for the holders and a pair of bolts for mounting the tool post. All came in a good secure box with fitted hard foam tray.

Finish. These have a nice satin finish with the tool holders being anodized black. 

Con’s:

Operation of the release lever. It’s crunchy. Does not move smoothly and the lever will not stay tight no matter how I try to keep it tight. I have not applied any thread locker to it. I should not have to.

Horrible hardware. I’ve managed to strip the hex out in at least two of the set screw that hold the cutting bits. I’m not sure if the included hex wrench is off-size or the hole in the screw is off size. I’ve searched my vast collection of hex wrenches and cannot find one that fits the screws correctly. So I’m ASSuming the screws suck.

The parting blade holder is junk. After one job of cutting a piece of hex bar it has deformed at the bottom and allowed the blade to move and get jammed in the work. Now the holder is scrap… It’s made it into the scrap bin. This would have held up if made from steel.

No additional holders are available. If you want additional holders you need to buy another complete set. Although at $44 that may not be a bad solution.

The dovetail does not fit any other size/brand of QCTP. It’s narrower than 0XA size.

Summary.

If you use your lathe infrequently you will likely be happy with this QCTP. It’s inexpensive enough to justify buying for that level of work. However it must be treated with care due what I perceive as the lack of durability. 

As this is a 109 list I honestly think this setup is physically too large for these machines.

For somebody like me who uses my lathe for real work a couple sessions or more per week, this may also work for you. For me I’m just not thrilled by it. The failure of the parting holder was the final straw. 

I’ll be ordering a new steel 0XA set off eBay sometime this week.

Hope this is of help to some of you.

—
Mike N

*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************


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## Round in circles (May 2, 2016)

I live in Great Britain  UK & have a Chinese  import QCTP simuilar tot eh US AXA size two  .  Mine cost me £ 194  ( $260 USD ish )  I purchased two extra tool holders when I got it , Now nearly three years later I've gone back to the original Chinese seller and asked to buy four more . 
Yes he is still selling these good quality QCTP's , the price for extra tool holders has however more than doubled to be £ 20 each $ 26 . So if you do take the step to get a decent QCTP think hard about buying several extra square bar and a couple of round bar tool holders  , you'll soon find you need them .


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## ezduzit (May 2, 2016)

TLW said:


> ...do not spend the money on Alloris...


 
Just gotta disagree with this. My one and only Phase II holder is a real piece of junk; so poorly made it is embarrassing. The rest of my AXA holders are Aloris; some bought new, some used, some that came with the lathe. 

Look at how the tool holder opening is misshapen. If you intend to do precision work, why handicap yourself with inferior tooling?


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## Ulma Doctor (May 2, 2016)

i have to disagree, a talented machinist can perform exacting work with modest or even inferior tooling.
the precision is in the operator, the tool(ing) is merely an extension.


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## ezduzit (May 2, 2016)

We can agreeably disagree. If you are so highly skilled that you welcome the handicap, you're welcome to it.

I have other imported tools but  was simply amazed at the poor quality.


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## Ulma Doctor (May 3, 2016)

the OP stated he'd like to do it cheap.
the clone toolposts and toolholders will most likely be sufficient for anything he desires to turn.
i'm sure the handicap will be manageable by the OP.


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## wa5cab (May 3, 2016)

Ed,

I would have returned the 101 holder in your photo for a refund or replacement.  About half of my 101 tool holders are no-name Chinese from Wholesale Tool.  But none of them look anything like your photo.  

David,

I've been recommending that anyone buying a QCTP buy a minimum of 5 101 or 102 holders with the initial purchase.  With only the one that normally comes with a set, you are hardly any better off than with the lantern style holder.

Mike,

I don't consider "inexpensive" and "cheap" to be synonyms.  There are two words which, if included in a message from anyone looking for something, cause me to delete it without any reply.  These are "cheap" (price) and "reasonable" (price).  They both mean cheap in the derogatory sense.


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## cdhknives (May 3, 2016)

Everyone's experience is different, and bad units get past QC everywhere.  None of my dozen or so Phase II tool holders look like the one pictured above.  All were purchased within the last 2 years.  All are well made, have good quality dovetails, threads, and set screws, and lock up tight in the toolpost.  Given the limitations of a light duty hobby lathe like our Atlas machines (this is an Atlas forum) the extra benefit of the Aloris quality level is mostly lost due to the light duty machine.  A good middle of the road toolpost will reach the limits of the machine just fine IMO.  If I were running a 5000 lb 12" ultra precision lathe and working to the tenths I would be a lot freer with the $$$ for a toolpost, but for our Atlas, put the money to cutting tools and practice materials.


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## BGHansen (May 3, 2016)

I have a BXA piston style from All Industrial Tool, BXA wedge style from CDCO and a BXA piston style from Grizzly (came with the lathe).  Must be I'm just lucky, but I've had no issues with any of them.  The CDCO 101/102 holders don't always just drop down on the Grizzly tool post, might need a rock back/forth to remove them.  The CDCO's were tight on my All Industrial Tool post also.  I've had no problems with screws being off angle or soft either.  I've never used an Aloris so can't speak to the finish or function, but they must be top-notched since they are the high-cost provider and stay in business.  I don't regret buying the import ones I did.  Maybe my uneducated decision to go with the Chinese hobby machinist <$175 QCTP worked out for me because I don't know any better.

Bruce


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## Rob (May 3, 2016)

I have an Aloris AXA on my 12" Atlas(exceptional deal) .  I also purchased a wedge type AXA QCTP from Tools4Cheap for my Uncle when they were still in business.  I will say that the finish and operation is a lot better on the Aloris.  This may be due to it being used and broken in when I got it.  Knowing what I do about both of them I will also say that had I had to pay the price for a new Aloris I do not think that I would have spent the extra money on it.  I am also very happy that I have it.  You can tell good tools by the feel and operation of them.


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## Spike440 (May 10, 2016)

Wow has this turned into a discussion! Sorry for the different user name but my original account has been reduced to 'guest' for some reason. I have the lathe pretty much back together and now need to figure out how everything works. I still plan to pick up a QCTP but till I actually have more than the one bit I have there is no hurry. Anyway, off to read some more, thanks everyone.
-Spike


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## TLW (May 10, 2016)

BGHansen said:


> I have a BXA piston style from All Industrial Tool, BXA wedge style from CDCO and a BXA piston style from Grizzly (came with the lathe).  Must be I'm just lucky, but I've had no issues with any of them.  The CDCO 101/102 holders don't always just drop down on the Grizzly tool post, might need a rock back/forth to remove them.  The CDCO's were tight on my All Industrial Tool post also.  I've had no problems with screws being off angle or soft either.  I've never used an Aloris so can't speak to the finish or function, but they must be top-notched since they are the high-cost provider and stay in business.  I don't regret buying the import ones I did.  Maybe my uneducated decision to go with the Chinese hobby machinist <$175 QCTP worked out for me because I don't know any better.
> 
> Bruce



Bruce,
   I too have bought a bunch of holders from CDCO. A dozen so far. Yup some of the holders are to tight to fit my post but I have the ability to put them on the surface grinder and do a custom fit. I figure at $9.00 each that's not a bad deal to spend a day fitting holders. I never had the problem of too soft a set screw but I did have the problem of to hard a screw. They would crack at the allen socket. Simple fix...I just bought a box of American made set screws from the local Ace Hardware store and replace them as I add to my collection. It's really nice to have 15 holders at the ready. I have almost every tool always ready to use.


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## TLW (May 10, 2016)

ezduzit said:


> Just gotta disagree with this. My one and only Phase II holder is a real piece of junk; so poorly made it is embarrassing. The rest of my AXA holders are Aloris; some bought new, some used, some that came with the lathe.
> 
> Look at how the tool holder opening is misshapen. If you intend to do precision work, why handicap yourself with inferior tooling?



   I would not be very happy with your experience either. My reaction would be to send it back and ask for a proper tool post. That POS should have never made it to your door.


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