# Importing a PM-25 To canada HELP Needed



## HellawellCustoms (Feb 2, 2018)

Hey guys I was wondering if any Canadians here have imported a mill or anything really and had to deal with  filing their own customs? I ordered a PM-25 as it seemed like all of the Canadian options weren't the greatest quality and I heard really good things about precision Mathews and the upgrades they have done.  However after buying the PM-25 and trying to contact a broker I found out that the brokerage fees alone where 570$ plus everything else (taxes, processing fee etc) it turned out to be 1100$  not something I budgeted for and almost regret not just buying the king Canada mill and dealing with the quality issues. Precision Mathews said they have had a lot of people broker their own customs with no issues. I however have never done this or heard of how to do it. Has anyone here dealt with something like this? Any tips? Should I just get a refund or should I try to figure this out?

I thought the package would be shipped right to my door, but he said something about it being shipped to a freight terminal. Doesn't give me much to go by. Last thing I want is to find out my package is a 7 hour trip away from me.  Just wanting others opinions or some feedback from people who have dealt with this before. Can I expect to pay the taxes (around 300$)  Or am I gonna be hit with a whole ton of other fees?

Also I did see 1 post on here while searching about my question but it didn't leave any details that answered mine.


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## Mystery1 (Feb 2, 2018)

This might give a hint: https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/beating-cross-border-brokerage-fees-1.762619 esp. if you have a CBSA office in North Bay. The bigger problem is getting the item across the border first and to your place. Perhaps discuss with UPS?
DHL might be an option as well, you can get a quote.
At those fees it might be worth driving all the way down to Niagara Falls NY and picking it up yourself. 5:30hr one way. HST will of course have to be paid coming across.


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## HellawellCustoms (Feb 2, 2018)

Not sure if we do have a cbsa here in North bay. That article makes it seem like it's super easy to do. Is it really that simple?


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## Mystery1 (Feb 2, 2018)

I have no personal experience other than bringing smaller items in in-person. No real hassle at Canadian side, you show the invoice, they figure out the HS code and you pay HST. Likely no duty since China and Taiwan has Most Favoured Nation status.
Rainbow Bridge has the most stations of the 3 crossings here so shorter lineups in both directions. Plus you get to see the Falls a bit .


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## HellawellCustoms (Feb 2, 2018)

GinStC said:


> I have no personal experience other than bringing smaller items in in-person. No real hassle at Canadian side, you show the invoice, they figure out the HS code and you pay HST. Likely no duty since China and Taiwan has Most Favoured Nation status.
> Rainbow Bridge has the most stations of the 3 crossings here so shorter lineups in both directions. Plus you get to see the Falls a bit .




I can't see me driving 6.5 hours out and then another back to pick up a mill. If they can't get it to my town I think I'll pass and just pickup the cheaper canadian mills.


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## pdentrem (Feb 2, 2018)

Use the 1-800 number for help from CBSA. They will tell you what you will need.


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## Dabbler (Feb 3, 2018)

So here is my direct experience with another type of cargo, perhaps even more difficult:

A decade+ ago (so take this for what it is worth)  I purchased 200 lbs of calcium carbide from Kentucky and needed to ship and import it to Alberta.  Now this is a Class V (restricted) cargo.  I found a ground freight company licensed to transport it, and explained* before entering into the shipping contract *that I was doing' self-accounting', which is a synonym for self-brokering. They had to agree to this before picking up the shipment. It also meant that they were restricted to using a bonded warehouse in the city I was clearing it.

4 weeks later, the shipment arrived, and I was phoned,  I went to the bonded warehouse, picked up the paperwork, and filed the brokerage information at Canada Customs.  I had to pay duties and GST, plus $20 for filling (the horrors!) on this several thousand dollar shipment.  Customs issued a clearance document, and I returned to the warehouse and picked up the container.

Your experience will vary.  The rules may have changed.  If I were to buy a US machine (and almost have) I would contact my local border people and get exact information about how to do this process again.  A few years later a supplier sent me an item and used a certain carrier (whose name I shouldn't mention) and charged me $390 to broker a $500 shipment.  Since it was non refundable, I was over a barrel and my purchase cost me dearly.  

I am currently importing a $2600 machine tool part from Ohio.  I have specified the exact courier service.  When it arrives here, I will be receiving the paperwork, but with this service I usually get them to clear things because they have in the past cost a flat fee of $40, which is less than all the driving around for the carbide.

You can PM me for more detail.  I hope this helps.


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## Kamloopsendo (Feb 5, 2018)

Can't comment on the shipping cost but I have imported PM machines before (picked them up on the american side and brought them in myself)  The only issue is a few minutes of time at the border and payment of the HST.  Talk to Matt, he should be able to facilitate things for you and get it shipped to a CBSA entry point and you likely have onein town  - maybe at the airport? In our case we shipped a couple of 14-40 lathes to the american border and brought them in ourselves but all I'm aware of saving was a bit of extra shipping cost (about $400 CDN) and I live about the same distance from the border that you do.  You could bring it in thru the Sault which might be a bit closer.  
On another point I don't think you'll find the King to be an equal to a PM machine - something to factor in to your decision.


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## Chipper5783 (Feb 6, 2018)

Consider a used machinery dealer.  You'd be looking at commercial equipment - but that's not a bad thing.  I have purchased 2 used machines from dealers and been satisfied with the results both times.  In my experience they accurately described what I was getting and took care of some of the key logistics that were difficult for me to address.  Of course the dealer gets compensated for their contribution - which I think is fair.

My 15" lathe was described as near new, I paid a very good dollar for it.  They packaged and shipped it to a depot about 10 miles from my house.  I've owned it for 35 years.  Still no regrets.
The other machine was my second Maho mill was described as a project machine and could not be tested (and was a package deal that they would not break up).  It was supposed to have some key attachments that are nearly impossible to find.  The description was accurate, the mill could be fixed - but I don't need it and I got a good condition spiral milling unit (which is what I was after).  Again, they took care of the packaging and shipping most of the way across the country, to a depot 80 miles away (cost $1000).

In both examples, without the contribution that the dealer made - the machines would have been out of the question.

Anywhere from Sarnia to Quebec City there are dozens of machinery dealers in your proximity.  You are close to a large manufacturing heart land.  Of course there are junk machines being sold, but it is pretty much a sure thing that there are some good machines for sale right now, within 500 miles of North Bay.

Their pricing?  Well it is going to be competitive (if it is not, then they won't be able to sell anything).

Buying a used machine does not mean looking for an estate sale with a mint condition BP being offered for $500 but you can talk them down to $250.  I have happened onto some pretty fantastic deals, but it took lots of work, patience and lost opportunities for the "great deals" I've landed.


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## The_Apprentice (Feb 6, 2018)

Alright, I just went through this scenario this morning with CBSA and a ~$200 USD purchase from LittleMachineShop...   For multiple options, this has already been discussed here:

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/self-declaring-through-canadian-customs.66049/#post-554070

I'm still not sure why I didn't have to pay duty this morning, despite they taxed me. But I'm not going to complain about it. I was happy to self-declare just to avoid paying brokerage fees (and other hidden charges) to UPS.


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## HellawellCustoms (Feb 8, 2018)

The_Apprentice said:


> Alright, I just went through this scenario this morning with CBSA and a ~$200 USD purchase from LittleMachineShop...   For multiple options, this has already been discussed here:
> 
> https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/self-declaring-through-canadian-customs.66049/#post-554070
> 
> I'm still not sure why I didn't have to pay duty this morning, despite they taxed me. But I'm not going to complain about it. I was happy to self-declare just to avoid paying brokerage fees (and other hidden charges) to UPS.


I got mine all figured out this morning. Apparently places like China where parts are manufactured from there aren't usually any duties as they are a highly ranked exporter or something like that. I forget how they worded it. Anyways my mill shows up tomorrow and the lovely ladies in my town at cbsa pulled some strings and where able to allow me to make the payment locally and saved me a 8 hour drive to fill out paperwork. Payed 270$ taxes and done. I may have to self declare all of my packages from now on. Did your package show up and you just declined it? Or how do you go about avoiding the ups fees.


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