# Starting The Refurbishment Of My 1947 South Bend 9a



## thenrie

A couple years ago I bought a Delta Rockwell 11" lathe. Turned out the lathe needed more work than I suspected when I bought it, which necessitated that I find a lathe on which to make a few new shafts and cut a few bushings. I found this little 9A at a reasonable price, nicely tooled, taper attachment, collet closer, etc.  I finished the rebuild of the DR11, which turned out very nicely, indeed, and immediately after, moved across the country to Utah. So, here I was, moved from a huge workshop in VA to a little 10X12 shop in UT, completely stuffed with tools, so that I couldn't access anything to work with. So, I decided to see what kind of a price I might get for my DR11, since I wasn't using it. Never even got to make anything more than one test cut. Didn't really expect to sell it at the price I was asking, but figured if someone would pay my price, I could use the funds elsewhere. 

Anyway, to make a long story short, a fellow bought my DR11, but getting the thing out and delivering it got my creative juices moving again, so I decided it was time to refurbish the old 9A.  So, it's apart and I'm cleaning it up for a fresh coat of paint.

The old thread about my South Bend can be found here:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/just-brought-home-a-south-bend-9a.19468/page-2#post-182585

So, Here goes.


----------



## thenrie

So, while taking it apart, I got a bit of a surprise. Looks like my bull gear has had a couple repairs. At least 6 teeth have been broken and repaired. The repairs were done very well. So well, in fact, that I didn't know it until I got the gear off and cleaned it up.

I also found that my spindle pulley gear has had some work on two or three teeth as well. Again, a well done repair, but not perfect.

So, this evening I happened to find good buys on both items on eBay. The replacement parts are on the way.


----------



## thenrie

Does anybody have an opinion as to whether I should upgrade from the old 1/4 hp motor to a 1/2? The old motor is getting a bit weak. The starter capacitor is bad and I've been starting it by a turn of the wheel. I've been a bit disappointed in that I can't get a good cut and have to settle for turning off .010 or less at a time on steel. Is a 1/2hp motor too much for the little machine?


----------



## malar

Today's half horse motor might have what your quarter has. I replaced a half on my old SB with a new half and it didn't have the power the old one had.
Where is Salem? I'm in Pocatello Id. Maybe we could work out some thing on the new half I have.
I hate to say but I bought a HF one horse and It has been great so far.


----------



## thenrie

Hmm. That's a thought. The 1/2 I'm looking at is a Baldor, so I know it's a worthy motor. The 1/4 I have now is a General Electric, but it's pretty old. I think it's losing steam. I might take a look at what HF offers, just to compare. What do you need to get for yours?

I was sort of concerned that getting a stronger motor might give me some worries about breaking gear teeth, but if your 1hp is not breaking things, then a 1/2hp should be fine.

Salem is right between Spanish Fork and Payson, south of the Provo/Orem area. Moved here last year to be closer to the kids. Gave up a 35X55 workshop back in VA. I hope my kids appreciate what I sacrificed to be closer to their kids!


----------



## Charles Spencer

I bought one of these and it seems OK to me.  $140 and free shipping to the lower 48:

http://williamsonneelectric.com/473212hp1800rpmgeelectricmotor.aspx


----------



## DoogieB

In the later years SB shipped the 9A's with 1/2 HP motors.  My '72 10K came with a 1/2 HP and it's basically the same thing as a 9A.

The broken gears you see aren't from motor HP, after all the flat belt makes a pretty good torque limiter, it's from abuse.  Either someone was beating on a stuck chuck or they crashed the lathe hard while in back gears.

While I have a few things from Harbor Freight, they aren't exactly known for quality electric motors.   The seller included a brand new Dayton motor with my SB10K and it's been working fine.


----------



## coffmajt

After several years with the original 1/4 HP motor on my 9A, I changed it out for a 1HP GE and a new serpentine flat belt.  The belt will slip if the cut gets too hearty, but that's ok.  I now think .050 to .060 is normal on 4360 steel without belt slip.  Really makes threading with single point tool nice also == Good luck == Jack


----------



## thenrie

Thanks for all this info. That really eases my mind. I'm now looking at 3/4hp motors. That ought to do me well enough.


----------



## thenrie

Hey, I learned this evening that the dual-sheave countershaft drive wheel I bought, to convert my 6-speed to a 12-speed, is made of aluminum. I thought they were all cast iron. Did I get taken? It was advertised as a South Bend drive wheel. It has a casting number of 2542 RL1 (or RLI).  The large sheave is 10", just like the single-sheave I have, so it will work, regardless, but I was wanting a genuine South Bend part.

I discovered this fact when I removed it from the industrial-strength degreaser this evening. Luckily I didn't leave it in there long enough to do any significant damage. A little buffing and paint and it will be fine.


----------



## jocat54

Tony, If you get a HF one HP motor you will probably have to do some mods to the electrical connection box to get some clearance for the drive belt. At least I did on my 9A. 
I bought one while I was repairing my old 1/4 HP GE motor and had to re-route some of the electrical to clear the flat belt. The old GE is back on and chugging along, hopefully for a while longer. It is a lot quieter and smoother than the HF motor.


----------



## thenrie

Yeah. I hear you. I have enough experience with HF tools to be wary. They are great when you need something RIGHT NOW and don't need it as an inheritance for your kids, if you take my meaning. I have been watching ebay for a good buy on a Baldor. By the look of things, I should be ok on clearance with a 1/2 or 3/4hp motor. Thanks for the heads-up, though.


----------



## thenrie

I just ordered a 3/4hp motor from Grizzly. I know they're Taiwanese, but I've had good luck with their tools and never had a motor give me trouble. We'll see what happens.


----------



## malar

Having trouble replying to message!!


I'm glad you got a new motor ordered. I found the motor I have too late you had already ordered.
It's a Marathon 1/2 HP, I can use it for a project in the future.

I believe you'll be happy with more power. Like some one already said the flat belt on my lathe will slip off if I get carried away

My HF motor isn't noisy it makes less noise then the others. I know HF tools are all over the place in quality.
But if you read the reviews and are careful you'll do Ok.


----------



## thenrie

As far as Asian tools go, the Tai stuff generally seems to be of better quality than the Chinese, but even the Chinese stuff has come a long way in the past few years, although it seems their steel and cast iron lacks the quality of our old USA stuff. Still, my judgment was based on experience with Grizzly tools, I have a full stock of cabinet shop power tools from Grizzly - table saws, shapers, jointers, etc - and have never had a motor give me any trouble, so that's why I decided to give this motor a try. We'll see how it fits and works in a couple weeks and I'll report back.


----------



## bisley45

Well I am a little late to this thread but my 1941 south bend 9" came with a 1/2 hp 3 phase motor and if you have never thought of using a 3 ph motor they are great. with my set up teco vfd and 3ph motor I now have infinite speed control. now I need more 3 ph for the rest of my machines .


----------



## sbx

I'll second bisley with the 3/4 HP 3P + VFD. I did that with my 9A, and love it. Variable speed and direction change with a flip of a switch or turn of a pot.

Also, Didn't see a direct answer on your counter shaft casting. Mine is a single pulley, but is also cast aluminum. Pretty sure yours is just fine and original.


----------



## thenrie

Thanks for that confirmation. I have seen a number of images on Google that look just like my wheel, so I guess I'm fine. I'm going to either have to turn my countershaft down on the end or bore it out to 7/8" though. Looks like one of the countershaft bearings is galled and will have to be bored and bushed, so I figure I'll bore the wheel out to 7/8" while I'm at it.


----------



## thenrie

Ok. Some pics of my headstock bearing and spindle. Of course, the photos make things look worse than they are. I can barely feel the marks on the spindle with my fingernail. I intend to polish it a little with some extra-fine emery cloth and call it good. As for the bearing surface, however, I can definitely feel the groovesl. It needs to be smoothed. Will a brake cylinder hone do the trick? Anybody tried that?

Second question. The right-hand side bearing of the countershaft frame, or whatever it's called, is galled and scored inside. It's going to need to be bored and bushed. I have seen a manual that indicates later-model 9A lathes had these bushed with two bronze bushings on each side, such that an oil reservoir was created between the bushings, rather than using wicks. Hard to explain. Anyway, with that setup, would there be a need for the felt wicks?  I'm considering boring out the bearings on both sides to the depth of the keyway and simply pressing in oilite bushings on each side (actually two bushings per side) and just doing without the wicks. Has anybody done this? Opinions?


----------



## thenrie

Well, so far, the consensus on the "other" forum is that my headstock spindle and bearing aren't really bad enough to worry about. I'll just touch up the burs in the headstock bearing bore and call it good.

As for the countershaft bearing bores, the jury is still out, but I think I'm just going to do the same thing. From what I'm being told, oilite bushings will not stand up well to the side loads imposed on the countershaft, so if I bore/bush the bearing I'll have to order bushings for it (I have the oilite ones). I have replaced the countershaft with a 7/8" TGP 1045 shaft, so that should take up some of the excess clearance. I guess if it's still passing oil too fast through the bearing I can always bore and bush it later. For now I'll just go with it like it is.


----------



## thenrie

Started painting parts today. Got a coat of primer on most of the parts. I still need to disassemble the compound and cross slide and get them cleaned up. I am trying it this time with a 3/4" artist style paint brush, as I've seen recommended by other people. I sure don't care for how the primer has gone on. The primer sets up so quick it doesn't flow out the brush strokes. I expect I'll sand everything smooth with light sand paper and just go to the color coats. Wife doesn't like the smell, though, so I'm going to have to move out to the workshop. Hope my little heater can keep it warm enough for painting.

The last lathe I did, I used an industrial paint (Tractor Supply) with hardener and decided to go without primer. Didn't have any problem and the paint went on well. This time I'm using an oil base Sherwin Williams paint with no hardener, so I figured maybe primer was a good idea.


----------



## thenrie

I'm well into the painting. Yesterday I got the first coat of color on about 1/2 the parts - most of the small parts. I got the headstock and tailstock primered. Still lack primer on the saddle and cleaning and primer on the bed. This week I'll get the first coat of color on all the parts and hopefully start putting things back together next week. Looking forward to getting it back to working condition. The dual-sheave motor drive pulley has a broken large sheave, so I am going to make a new pulley. Already have the round for it, just need to get the lathe back together so I can make it. I have decided to take the dual-sheave countershaft drive pulley to a machine shop and have it bored for the 7/8" countershaft. I will also have the shop take a look at the countershaft support bearing and see what their opinion is as to whether it should be bored and bushed or left as-is. Otherwise, I have been very pleased at what I found as I took the lathe apart. The bed has some wear, as do the surfaces under the saddle and tailstock, but not enough for me to worry about for the accuracy I need for my projects.

As for paint, I chose to follow what some others have done and used an oil-based Sherwin Williams paint with the recommended primer. This paint is not two-part, so it has no hardener. I'm hoping it is hard enough to last a while and resist chipping, wear, and oil penetration. It wasn't cheap, so I hope it lasts. Anyway, I like the color. I have compared it to the color I'm finding on the bed as I clean off the grease and they are a pretty close match. I have been brushing on the primer with a 3/4" artist's natural bristle brush. The primer sets up so quick it doesn't flow out and self level. On parts where I thought it might show, I have sanded the primer with 220 grit wet/dry paper, then painted the top coat in the same way. The color coat flows out, but not completely. Still, it looks nice. I haven't take the time to sand/fill/sand/primer rough castings or spray on the finish. I did a lot of that with my last lathe restoration, but for this one I have accepted the fact that this is an industrial machine and I will be making it very dirty and oily. It is not a show car.

Can't wait to get it back together.

In one of the pictures you'll notice my new Burke #4 horizontal mill in the background. It's not big enough to do the work on the countershaft pulley and support that I need, but I'm looking forward to using it to mill out an MLA T-slot cross slide and some other accessories
	

		
			
		

		
	




	

		
			
		

		
	
 for my lathe.


----------



## thenrie

Talked to a machinist about my countershaft issues. His opinion was that the bore will be fine in the low rpm application it is for and that it will likely outlast me. So, that's what I'm going with. Had him bore my countershaft pulley to 7/8". I still need to drill the shaft for the #6 taper pin and cut the shaft to length. I'll have to wait until I get the lathe back together to do that. I'll use the old shaft and pulley to run the lathe while I finish the new countershaft.  By the way, I bought a new motor drive pulley. Mine has a broken large sheave.

Pics later, when there's actually something interesting to take a picture of.


----------



## thenrie

Making progress on the painting. Maybe two more afternoons. It's cold in my workshop, so I have to turn the heaters on in the morning, so I can paint in the afternoons and evenings.

I replaced the countershaft with a length of 7/8" TGP 1045, had the dual-sheave drive pulley's shaft bore bored from 3/4" to 7/8". I'll have to use the old drive pulley and shaft to start with, once I get the lathe together, so I can trim to size and finish the new shaft, then I'll install the new dual-sheave pulley and finish the conversion from 6-speeds to 12-speeds.

So, if all goes well, by the end of next week I'll have the lathe back together and ready to work.

I'll post some photos tomorrow.


----------



## Charles Spencer

Nice looking shop setup you've got going.  Neat and compact.


----------



## thenrie

Well, for me it's rather small. It would be nice if it were only my machine tools in there, but I came to Utah last year from Virginia, where I had a 35X55 workshop with a nice wood stove in it. In that workshop, I had a space for my auto mechanics tools, a space for my welding outfits, a space for all my cabinet shop tools, and a space for my leatherwork, and still had space for my machine tools. I miss that shop! 

Still, it's nice to be closer to the kids and grandkids and that makes it worth the sacrifice. I can do with my little 10X12 work to be closer to the kids.


----------



## Charles Spencer

Believe me, that was praise.  My work shop is 9' x 17', pretty close to yours.  I sure wish it was as well-organized as yours.


----------



## thenrie

Here's what mine looks like right now.


----------



## thenrie

After taking the gearbox apart, I found a casting flaw that left a big hole right over the gear tree shaft. I figure that's how the swarf got in that locked up the 16-tooth gear on that shaft...which occasioned the whole overhaul thing. Anyway, I degreased the casting and applied a little PC-7 epoxy to the hole. Turned out nicely. You can't even tell it was a hole. the PC-7 looks just like the cast metal. I'll protect the epoxy patch with paint on both the inside and outside and it should last the life of the lathe.


----------



## brino

Nice job, the casting hole just disappeared!
-brino


----------



## thenrie

Finally got her back up and running. Nice to be making chips again! Here are some before/after-refurb shots of my SB9A. 

The refurb included replacement of all the felts, adding the pin bearing mod on the spindle, replacement of a worn shaft in the gearbox, replacement of the original GE 1/4hp motor with a Grizzly 3/4 hp motor (excellent upgrade, by the way), replacement of the bull gear and spindle step pulley (the originals had been damaged and repaired), replacement of the drive belt, and paint. What few bushings there are seemed to be in good shape. While stripping paint, I discovered my lathe is a war production lathe. It has the tag riveted to the bed. I plan to eventually restore the tag to original colors.

I used a paint color/type recommended elsewhere on this forum. It is a Sherwin Williams oil-based paint. While the color is right and it is not a cheap paint, I would recommend going with a more modern enamel with a hardener. This paint chips fairly easily.

Yesterday and today I completed a couple projects I've been holding for a long time. I made a new shaft for the drive pulley, to go with the new dual-sheave large pulley I bought. I still have to drill it for the taper pin to hold the pulley, then install it (you'll notice in the photos I still have the single-sheave pulley in operation). I also made a rod for my taper attachment that holds the bed bracket. I still need to set the taper attachment parallel to the bed and pour babbit in the bed bracket to set it permanently.

I also made a new screw for an old Mitchell 300 fishing reel (they sure don't make spinniing reels like they used to) and got it back in operation.

You'll also notice the lathe has a new table. I actually built that table a while back. I need to refinish the top. I finished the top with boiled linseed oil. It's hard to keep clean. I may paint it. We'll see. 

Nice to have that refurb project finished. Now I can get on to some other stuff.


----------



## thenrie

Just picked up a bare casting for a telescoping follower rest on eBay. Not cheap, but certainly less than buying a fully functional one in good shape. Since I have a telescoping steady rest, I can just trade parts to use the follower rest until I get a chance to build the missing parts. I've been looking for one for quite a while, but have been unwilling to pay out $200 or more for one. 

Slowly, but surely, I'm putting together quite an array of tooling for my little SB.


----------



## toolman_ar

You did an excellent job on your lathe.

toolman_ar


----------



## LucknowKen

toolman_ar said:


> You did an excellent job on your lathe.
> toolman_ar


I 2nd the Toolman's post but want to add the Rockwell lathe was also excellent.
I have read over this thread and the one linked to above.


Like in your other thread my plain taper attachment is missing the bed clamp and tie rod.
Do you know the length of that tie rod? Thanx.
lk


----------



## thenrie

I don't believe the length or diameter is critical. The one I made is 2.770 long and about 5/8" major diameter. It is about 6" overall length. As far as I can tell the only purpose is to hold the unit square to the lathe and allow the bed clamp to slide along the bedway with the saddle. I don't believe any dimensions are critical.

As you can see, I haven't yet poured the babbit to set the rod in the bed clamp yet. That's what those two holes are for. I haven't taken the time to ensure the taper attachment is perfectly parallel with the bed yet. Once I do that I'll pour the babbit to permanently set the alignment.


----------



## thenrie

This morning I took a look at my steady rest, to see exactly what parts I will need to manufacture to turn my follower rest casting into a working unit. Turns out it's pretty simple and straight-forward. However, I can't figure out what the split-ring on the knobs is there for. It has to have a function, or they wouldn't have put it there. Still, I can't seem to figure it out. Wondering whether I even need to worry about it when I make the knobs for my follower rest.

Anybody know what it does?


----------



## LucknowKen

thenrie said:


> I don't believe the length or diameter is critical. The one I made is 2.770 long and about 5/8" major diameter. It is about 6" overall length.
> 
> View attachment 140068



Thanks Tony: The extra picture is a bonus.
Those two rests are sweet!  





thenrie said:


> However, I can't figure out what the split-ring on the knobs is there for. It has to have a function, or they wouldn't have put it there. Still, I can't seem to figure it out.
> 
> Anybody know what it does?
> 
> View attachment 140073
> View attachment 140074



That split ring might be a retainer for the shoe.
lk


----------



## thenrie

My Delta Rockwell restoration thread was moved to 

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...-got-my-first-lathe-a-d-r-11x36-25-100.18750/

in case anybody wanted to look at that one.


----------

