# Birmingham Mills?



## ErichKeane

So I've decided that I want to upgrade my runout Millrite to a bigger mill in better shape!  I ended up selling a bunch of my woodworking gear + some extra guns, and got together about $7k for a replacement!  

On ebay, about a 4 hr drive from me, is a basically-unused Birmingham variable head mill with a 2 axis DRO and 2 axis power feed.  Its a 10x54, so it is a pretty sizable mill, but I have the room.  AND it is a bit under my budget.

Anything I should think about before just buying this?  Am I missing some amazing other deal that would be similar?

I see a handful of bridgeports around, but they typically don't come up in all that good shape around here.


----------



## mmcmdl

Birmingham knee - type mill milling machine, model BPV -1054 - C.,  | eBay
					

Birmingham knee - type mill milling machine, model BPV -1054 - C.,,Mitutoyo dro. Condition is "Used". The mill has had less than 10 hours of use. It has been in storage in a heated warehouse for several years.



					www.ebay.com
				




If this is the one , I would grab it .


----------



## ErichKeane

mmcmdl said:


> Birmingham knee - type mill milling machine, model BPV -1054 - C.,  | eBay
> 
> 
> Birmingham knee - type mill milling machine, model BPV -1054 - C.,,Mitutoyo dro. Condition is "Used". The mill has had less than 10 hours of use. It has been in storage in a heated warehouse for several years.
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this is the one , I would grab it .


Yep, thats the one


----------



## mmcmdl

Looks brand new and comes with some tooling also .


----------



## ErichKeane

mmcmdl said:


> Looks brand new and comes with some tooling also .


Yep!  I put an 'offer' in.  I'll have to take a day off work to drive up, but it shouldn't be a problem


----------



## mmcmdl

Taking a day off of work has NEVER been a problem for me . ( specially if a machine or an old Cub Cadet follows me home )


----------



## mmcmdl

He says he'll ship it for $5.20 also .


----------



## ErichKeane

mmcmdl said:


> He says he'll ship it for $5.20 also .


only $4.80 to me!  But yeah, he messed that up, I'm pretty sure


----------



## mmcmdl

ErichKeane said:


> only $4.80 to me! But yeah, he messed that up, I'm pretty sure


LMAO ! Tell him to ship it today !


----------



## ErichKeane

Heh... despite having a 'make an offer' button, he declined my offer with 

"I want $6000 for it and its a good deal at that price"

I guess he has a TON of ebay-problems


----------



## MrWhoopee

As a good friend of mine once said: "Don't play that one, get her in the boat!"


----------



## ErichKeane

MrWhoopee said:


> As a good friend of mine once said: "Don't play that one, get her in the boat!"


 Well, I figured I'd give it a shot!  Clicked 'purchase', now have to figure out how to give him money and when I can pick it up!


----------



## Beckerkumm

Looks like you did well.  The tooling really makes the deal.  Birmingham machines tend to be a combination of Taiwan ( head ) and China body and castings.  That likely hurts resale a little but I don't see much downside in this case.  I would bring a dial along and check the table but that is pretty standard when buying used.  Dave


----------



## ErichKeane

Beckerkumm said:


> Looks like you did well.  The tooling really makes the deal.  Birmingham machines tend to be a combination of Taiwan ( head ) and China body and castings.  That likely hurts resale a little but I don't see much downside in this case.  I would bring a dial along and check the table but that is pretty standard when buying used.  Dave


Sadly, buying ebay is a bit of a pig-in-a-poke, so fingers crossed its not too bad.  Guy says he barely used it because he bought it, then got distracted by other hobbies.


----------



## mmcmdl

I would pay that if he shipped it for $4.80 !


----------



## mmcmdl

You must have got it , the listing is ended !


----------



## ErichKeane

mmcmdl said:


> You must have got it , the listing is ended !


Yup, I ended up having to pay the full 6k (he rejected my 'offer' with a 'pay full price!') so he messed that ebay stuff up too.  I WISH he could ship it!  I'm taking Friday off, renting a Sunbelt drop-deck trailer, then driving 3 1/2 hrs each way!


----------



## FOMOGO

I'd say you did very well at that price. 10x54 is a nice size upgrade. Enjoy the trip.  Mike


----------



## mmcmdl

Yep , I had that Lagun FTV-2 with the 10x54 bed . Nice machine . Congrats on the new and new to you machine . Looks like a keeper . 

ROAD TRIP !


----------



## Beckerkumm

I use a 12K drop deck and it is really the way to go.  They do have a steel floor so I like to bolt 4x6 under the machine ( not lag ), long enough to stabilize the top heavy tendency.  Strap four ways on the bottom and 4x6 and down from the knee in two directions.  Nothing is worse on a road trip than worrying about the load and watching the rear view until some clown pulls out right in front of you.  Dave


----------



## Papa Charlie

Congratulations on the new tool. Looks like you got a really good deal with all the tooling.


----------



## ErichKeane

Papa Charlie said:


> Congratulations on the new tool. Looks like you got a really good deal with all the tooling.


Ya!  I actually don't have a good idea on what to do with some of it! I'm probably going to have to find someone in the area to buy some of it.

I'll probably use the mills/vblocks, probably the dividing head, coax head, and hold-down kit , but a lot of that stuff ends up being duplicates for me.  Though, those almost look like 1/4" parallels, which seem like they'd be very handy!

Anyone i the PacNW wants some inexpensive gear, keep an eye out, I'll have a lot of this available once I get through all of it!


----------



## Papa Charlie

ErichKeane said:


> Ya!  I actually don't have a good idea on what to do with some of it! I'm probably going to have to find someone in the area to buy some of it.
> 
> I'll probably use the mills/vblocks, probably the dividing head, coax head, and hold-down kit , but a lot of that stuff ends up being duplicates for me.  Though, those almost look like 1/4" parallels, which seem like they'd be very handy!
> 
> Anyone i the PacNW wants some inexpensive gear, keep an eye out, I'll have a lot of this available once I get through all of it!


Well, I am just North of you. Would very much appreciate a heads up once you decide what you don't need. I am gathering all my equipment and tooling for my soon to be retirement shop. 
But at your leisure. You may want to wait until you get everything set up. You could find some items that it is good to have two or more of.


----------



## ErichKeane

Papa Charlie said:


> Well, I am just North of you. Would very much appreciate a heads up once you decide what you don't need. I am gathering all my equipment and tooling for my soon to be retirement shop.
> But at your leisure. You may want to wait until you get everything set up. You could find some items that it is good to have two or more of.


Well, quite a bit north of me   Looks like about a 4 hr drive!  Once I get everything home and picked through, I'll let you know. I know for a fact I won't need 2 more vises!  Though perhaps 1 will go with my old mill.


----------



## Just for fun

Sounds like a good deal,  Congratulations!


----------



## ErichKeane

1/2 way done! Just finished the pickup... Extra long trip back unfortunately thanks to Seattle traffic.


----------



## Just for fun

Very Nice!  Looks like you had it tied down really good.


----------



## ErichKeane

Just for fun said:


> Very Nice!  Looks like you had it tied down really good.


Well, the drive home ended up being an adventure. The plastic pallet I used (rated for 9k lbs on a flat surface :/) started to bend/break on the drive home. I ended up stopping frequently to tighten the ratchet straps to make sure it didn't move!ade it back fine, just an adventure! Now I gotta figure out how to unload it!

My original plan was a pallet jack, then wiggle it off the pallet into place. However, the pallet is now too crushed to make that work.


----------



## BladesIIB

Looks like a good save there with that pallet.  Gantry cranes are usually not to expensive to rent if you have the headroom in the shop.  Or of course a fork lift.  Good luck, looks like a great machine.


----------



## Janderso

mmcmdl said:


> Birmingham knee - type mill milling machine, model BPV -1054 - C.,  | eBay
> 
> 
> Birmingham knee - type mill milling machine, model BPV -1054 - C.,,Mitutoyo dro. Condition is "Used". The mill has had less than 10 hours of use. It has been in storage in a heated warehouse for several years.
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this is the one , I would grab it .


Me too!


----------



## Janderso

ErichKeane said:


> Well, the drive home ended up being an adventure. The plastic pallet I used (rated for 9k lbs on a flat surface :/) started to bend/break on the drive home. I ended up stopping frequently to tighten the ratchet straps to make sure it didn't move!ade it back fine, just an adventure! Now I gotta figure out how to unload it!
> 
> My original plan was a pallet jack, then wiggle it off the pallet into place. However, the pallet is now too crushed to make that work.


Reminds me of my adventure when we moved the Micromaster.
Every full size machine tool move is an event.
So happy for you. You have a great mill there for a fair price!


----------



## ErichKeane

Went to a local welding shop where they have a forklift and had them put the mill on a plate, and sell me some round bar. After that, a come along was enough to get it onto the floor!

The guy who is going to help me put it in place (and take the old one!)  is coming next Saturday, so I am without a mill for a little while until I can get this all set up!


----------



## Just for fun

By looking at the pallet, it looks like you were luckly to make it home with it. 

What is your plan for getting it off of the plate?

Tim


----------



## ErichKeane

Just for fun said:


> By looking at the pallet, it looks like you were luckly to make it home with it.
> 
> What is your plan for getting it off of the plate?
> 
> Tim


Thats a next weekend problem   I suspect I can just slide the machine on the plate a little at a time with a bar from the front, but we'll see what works. At the moment, I'm just glad to have got it off the trailer!

The way the pallet went, the 'center' was stable and fine, just the 'bridge' parts broke out.  I think I had it well strapped enough with straps in tension against eachother left/right that I was just balancing it over the center.  I ended up stopping every about 20 minutes or os to ratchet the straps down more and test it out, so a little paranoia and a ton of luck got it home safe


----------



## Just for fun

Good job,  it's a good looking mill.  Patanoia paid off!


----------



## Beckerkumm

Now you know why I prefer 4x6.  Dave


----------



## ErichKeane

Hrm.... so I went to put a collet in last night and discovered that the R8 'alignment' pin doesn't seem to be there!  I was able to tighten my collet anyway to tram my head in, but I was quite surprised!  I suspect I could live without it (and it might make my thoughts on a power-drawbar easier...) but I might try to replace it anyway.


----------



## mksj

Almost always recommended to remove them, and always if using a power drawbar. Issue often, is that some arbors the threads are not deep enough, when you tighten the arbor, the drawbar stops at the end of the threads, the pin will shear and damage your spindle. It is only there to prevent rotation of the arbor/collet when initially threading drawbar but not as a position lock when tightening the drawbar. I almost sheared mine off on my knee mill and fortunately it only ruined the arbor before I tossed it. Also there is no standards for the alignment pin/channel, so often some collets/arbors may not fit w/o adjustment of the pin.


----------



## ErichKeane

mksj said:


> Almost always recommended to remove them, and always if using a power drawbar. Issue often, is that some arbors the threads are not deep enough, when you tighten the arbor, the drawbar stops at the end of the threads, the pin will shear and damage your spindle. It is only there to prevent rotation of the arbor/collet when initially threading drawbar but not as a position lock when tightening the drawbar. I almost sheared mine off on my knee mill and fortunately it only ruined the arbor before I tossed it. Also there is no standards for the alignment pin/channel, so often some collets/arbors may not fit w/o adjustment of the pin.


Thats all good to know!

I don't want to bring compressed air into my shop at the moment, so am hoping to find some mechanism to do a power-drawbar with electric.  With the new machine I need a step-stool to reach the drawbar   For that, I am considering 2 plans: 

1- the traditional impact-wrench version, just with some sort of electric impact gun.  There don't seem to be any good butterfly-style electric impacts unfortunately, so I'm not sure what I could use/fab up.  This ALSO requires a different drawbar from what I read too?

2- Use a Belleville washer system with some sort of linear actuator to push on the top of the drawbar for release (or perhaps something manual?).  The 'downside' to this is removing the drawbar thanks to the pin.  However, if I leave the pin out, I think I can just hand-screw it into place from the bottom (with the drawbar pushed 'down' by the actuator), then release the handle to make it go back 'up'.


----------



## ErichKeane

Got it into place! Found a couple of things that need some slight repair (the knee extension and handle are bent funny, and a broken locking handle), but in place, running, and vise mounted! I'm amazed how small my DX6 looks on it 

Going through most of the stuff that came with it, so have a decent haul for Papa Charlie when he can stop by


----------



## Papa Charlie

ErichKeane said:


> Got it into place! Found a couple of things that need some slight repair (the knee extension and handle are bent funny, and a broken locking handle), but in place, running, and vise mounted! I'm amazed how small my DX6 looks on it
> 
> Going through most of the stuff that came with it, so have a decent haul for Papa Charlie when he can stop by


Looks real nice in the shop. Also looks as though you found a new home for your old mill. Nice not to have a bunch of equipment build up that only takes up space.

Well, as far as stopping by, you will probably need some time to sort things out. That will give me time to plan a trip. Looks like some things got rearranged. Our first choice for retirement was in Coos Cnty but with the powers that be in Oregon we are also looking at other places. So have decided to buy an RV to do some traveling and check things out. One state that is looking interesting is WY. 

If you have another buyer, please don't hesitate on me. I would not want to hold you up.


----------



## mmcmdl

Looks like I spotted a B&S 618 Micromaster in the background !


----------



## ErichKeane

mmcmdl said:


> Looks like I spotted a B&S 618 Micromaster in the background !


Yep, thats one of my other machines


----------



## ErichKeane

Between myself and a buddy, this is what is left of the stuff @Papa Charlie .

Let me know if it is worth a ride for you.

Shars 5c collet set, and collet blocks. Unnamed boring head w R8, import adjustable parallels, snap gauges, and an import set of end mills.

Also some edge finders (1 is B&S) and an import 6" vise with base.


----------



## Papa Charlie

@ErichKeane Thanks but I think I will pass. Appreciate your consideration.


----------

