# Buying my first lathe



## Siggi (Jul 30, 2017)

Hey y'all,

apologies if this has all been hashed out here before, but I'm looking to buy my first lathe. The only experience I have is a high school class, which is now well behind me. I have a little Taig CNC machine, which has whet my appetite for metalworking for realz .
I've been reading up on what's what, and the general advice seems to be to buy the biggest lathe you can afford. I think the biggest lathe I can afford is going to come down to space. I'm pretty sure I can fit a 12x36, which also seems to be a reasonable size for getting a fully-featured lathe (e.g. cross power feed, reverse feed, quick-change gearbox, etc).
This is for general messing around, I don't really have any concrete projects lined up, as is - apart from e.g. building a touch probe for the mill.

I'm in Montreal Canada, and I've looked around a little bit for local dealers or used machines, not much I've found so far. Do you all know of options here?

I'm currently looking at the Grizzly G4003G vs. the Precision Matthews PM1236. They're fairly similarly priced and tooled, but what I like about each over the other is as follows.

Grizzly G4003G:

Has a runout spec on the spindle and claims high-precision bearings.
Has a D1-5 cam-lock mount vs. D1-4 on the PM.
Has the 5*8 Norton quick-change gearbox.
1.57" spindle bore, vs. 1.5".
Precision Matthews PM1236:

Has a foot brake.
Has a feed clutch and carriage stop.
Comes with a cast-iron stand (as an option).
Max spindle speed is 1850RPM vs. 1400RPM for the Grizzly.
Comes with a coolant system, though I don't expect that'll be much use to me.
I've had a chat with Matt over email (super-nice guy), and I'm currently leaning towards the PM1236. I wonder whether/how much I'll regret giving up the Norton gearbox, though. Are there other things/features I'm overlooking or should consider?

Siggi


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## Bob Korves (Jul 30, 2017)

On the Grizzly, the runout spec may have little to do with reality, the D1-5 is much more expensive to buy tooling for, the tooling is more rare and harder to find, and I do not see the value of it if you do not have a significantly larger spindle bore.  .07" larger does not really add much usefulness, unless I am missing something.  Don't take me wrong, it is probably a fine lathe, and lots of them have been sold, but I do not see the gain in value for the increase in price.

The PM has a good reputation.  The extra spindle speed will be useful.


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## ezduzit (Jul 30, 2017)

Find a quality used machine in excellent condition that comes with a comprehensive set of tooling.


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## Glenn Brooks (Jul 30, 2017)

Second what Bob said.  If it were me, I'd buy the PM lathe - no question.

I have a d-1-5 spindle on my old 1950 standard Modern 12x48" Utilathe.  D-1-5 tooling is very hard to find and expensive.  Also the MT 4 and MT 5 spindles that usually go with D-1-5 lathes headstock and tailstock centers, drill chucks, etc, are  more expensive and heavier - way overkill on a 12x36" Lathe.

If you decide to compare with  used equipment, there is a used lathe dealer in Toronto that usually carries a bunch of Standard Modern Lathes. I think the company name is HH Roberts.  Utilathes are fantastic, nice, robust lathes.  Canadian built originally.  They have 15 or so Utilathe in stock, according to their website. Pricing usually significantly cheaper than new.

Glenn


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## mikey (Jul 30, 2017)

Siggi said:


> I wonder whether/how much I'll regret giving up the Norton gearbox, though. Are there other things/features I'm overlooking or should consider?
> 
> Siggi



So, instead of levers on the Grizzly, you have knobs that do the same thing on the PM1236 - you give up nothing other than levers. 

The feed rod clutch is rarely used unless you're going to make an assault on your carriage stop; its more of a "just in case I walk away when I shouldn't" kind of thing rather than a useful thing.

I agree with Bob - D1-4 is more than beefy enough for a 12" lathe and the cost of a D1-5 chuck is considerably more, and they tend to be larger. I don't see what you'd gain. 

A top speed of 1400 rpm is very slow for a lathe, especially if you plan to use carbide tooling. 1800 isn't much faster, though 1800 is better than 1400. My lathe goes to 2200 rpm and even that is marginal at times. Both will get down to about 65-70 rpm, which is faster than I would prefer but with no back gear, it is what it is.

If I were going to buy a 12" lathe today, I would seriously consider the PM 1236-T. Overall, a better Taiwanese machine with a beefy spindle and tailstock quill. Spindle run out =/- 0.0001" - not bad, and I would expect the reality to be better when I measured it. I'm not sure if this is a good first lathe but I could live with it for my last lathe. And besides, PM has a stellar reputation for after sales service and that alone would push me to a PM lathe.

Good luck. Tough decision in a class that has some really good players in it.


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## Siggi (Jul 31, 2017)

mikey said:


> So, instead of levers on the Grizzly, you have knobs that do the same thing on the PM1236 - you give up nothing other than levers.


It looks like the PM1236 offers a range of 20 feed settings from the gearbox, and you can get another 20 by switching change gears. The range of feeds looks to be 0.0019 through 0.0120 or 0.0078 through 0.048.

Of those 20 only 12 are valid gear cutting settings without changing gears, so in one setting you get 16, 18, 20, 24, 28, 30, 32, 36, 40, 48, 56, 60 all in with just knobs, then you need to change gears for 19, 38 or 22, 44, and 26, 52.

On the Grizzly you can choose any of 40 feed/thread settings without messing with change gears - whether this is going to matter to me in practice I don't know, but for a hobby lathe I put a bit of weight on convenience.



mikey said:


> The feed rod clutch is rarely used unless you're going to make an assault on your carriage stop; its more of a "just in case I walk away when I shouldn't" kind of thing rather than a useful thing.


The PM1236 comes with a micrometer carriage stop, which seems like it's intended for repeatable feed stops?



mikey said:


> A top speed of 1400 rpm is very slow for a lathe, especially if you plan to use carbide tooling. 1800 isn't much faster, though 1800 is better than 1400. My lathe goes to 2200 rpm and even that is marginal at times. Both will get down to about 65-70 rpm, which is faster than I would prefer but with no back gear, it is what it is.


Thanks, that's good data.



mikey said:


> If I were going to buy a 12" lathe today, I would seriously consider the PM 1236-T. Overall, a better Taiwanese machine with a beefy spindle and tailstock quill. Spindle run out =/- 0.0001" - not bad, and I would expect the reality to be better when I measured it.


Yeah, I've looked at that one too, but it's a fair bit more money if you tool it up to match the PM1236. Also doesn't come with a cast iron stand, foot brake nor the feed clutch etc...
Clutches for klutzes .



mikey said:


> Good luck. Tough decision in a class that has some really good players in it.



Thanks.


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## Siggi (Jul 31, 2017)

Thanks everyone who's weighted in. Looks like the D1-5 is not the advantage I thought it might be, that's good to know.



ezduzit said:


> Find a quality used machine in excellent condition that comes with a comprehensive set of tooling.


I'd dearly love to, but there doesn't look to be much to be had around this here frozen tundra I live in.


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## Bob Korves (Jul 31, 2017)

Siggi said:


> then you need to change gears for 19, 38 or 22, 44, and 26, 52.


And how often do you plan to be using those threads?  More threads are possible than the ones that are listed.  Also look into what metric threads the lathes are capable of and how you get there...


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## ezduzit (Jul 31, 2017)

Siggi said:


> ...there doesn't look to be much to be had around this here frozen tundra I live in.



You are considering a new one which is shipped from Taiwan. Not sure I see the problem with local availability.


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## Siggi (Jul 31, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> And how often do you plan to be using those threads?


Well, I guess that's the $0.20 question, innit .



ezduzit said:


> You are considering a new one which is shipped from Taiwan.


I'd much prefer a gently used older lathe, with scads of tooling for less money. I'm considering new mostly because I'm not finding anything used available around where I live.


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## Bob Korves (Jul 31, 2017)

Siggi said:


> Well, I guess that's the $0.20 question, innit .


Well, there are no standard fasteners I am aware of that would need those threads.  That is not to say you might not want to make one for some reason some day, but I cannot think of why you would.  And you could make those threads, by simply changing the change gears for that once in a lifetime job...  It looks to me like the designers did a fine job on that lathe, making all the common pitches available at the simple twist of a few dials.

Ignore 1% solutions, and concentrate on the 99% solutions...


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## mikey (Jul 31, 2017)

The feed clutch is useful in that it will theoretically slip before the feed gears break on an ambitious cut. The carriage stop is a very useful accessory, although an indicator is more accurate for positioning the stop. They are not usually used together, although they can be.


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## Siggi (Jul 31, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> Well, there are no standard fasteners I am aware of that would need those threads.



Sweet - so changing gears for imperial threads would be a "once in a blue moon", e.g. the gearboxen aren't a significant feature difference.
Thanks, this is the sort of thing that's hard to assess as a raw n00b.



mikey said:


> The feed clutch is useful in that it will theoretically slip before the feed gears break on an ambitious cut. The carriage stop is a very useful accessory, although an indicator is more accurate for positioning the stop. They are not usually used together, although they can be.



Hey Mike, I'm a n00b, so please forgive the stupid^Wignorant questions, but how would the stop be used if not on power feed? Hand feed, reverse feed from a shoulder?

The PM1236 manual has this verbiage:
"The clutch shown in Figure 3-15 disengages the power
feed if the carriage or cross slide hits an obstruction
when power feeding, thus minimizing the potential for
damage. This could be the result of either an accidental
event, or deliberately stopping the carriage at a precise
location set by the stop, Figure 3-16."


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## mikey (Jul 31, 2017)

While it has many uses, a carriage stop is typically used to turn or bore to a precise depth. Most commonly, you would set the stop in the desired position and power feed almost up to the stop and disengage the power feed, then manually feed up to the stop. This has several benefits: one, you don't knock the stop out of position, two, you don't stress your feed gears, three, you don't wear the feed clutch prematurely so that it eventually slips on standard cuts. You can use a stop in combination with the feed clutch; that's up to you but most of us don't do that. 

Most of the time, you will use your saddle handwheel or a DRO to move the saddle to the desired location and then move the carriage stop into position and lock it down. If I need great precision, as in a precision bore, then I trust an indicator before I would trust a micrometer carriage stop. Anyway, then you move the saddle back, engage your cutting tool and cut up to the stop.

My Emco 11" lathe has a feed clutch at the end of the drive rod. I think its a useful thing to have to save my gear train in case of an accident but I don't abuse it. My manual states it can be used with the stop for precision boring but doesn't mean I'd do it that way. The manual also says the stop can be used to prevent a crash when the lathe is used by an apprentice. Interestingly, I do use it that way when I'm machining up close to the chuck (feeding manually). Here, I mean when the cutter is inside of 0.005" of the chuck jaws and a crash would be catastrophic. 

I guess my point is that the feed clutch is useful in a crash or if taking too ambitious of a cut; it will slip before excessive damage is done to the gear train. A carriage stop is a must have for precision turning and boring. Using them together can be done but it can also be done manually, with less wear and tear to your lathe.


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## Siggi (Jul 31, 2017)

mikey said:


> While it has many uses, a carriage stop is typically used to turn or bore to a precise depth.
> 
> ....
> 
> I guess my point is that the feed clutch is useful in a crash or if taking too ambitious of a cut; it will slip before excessive damage is done to the gear train. A carriage stop is a must have for precision turning and boring. Using them together can be done but it can also be done manually, with less wear and tear to your lathe.



Hey Mike, thanks for taking the time to 'splain in detail - clearly I have a lot to learn. With a CNC and a lathe I can be TWICE as aware of my ignorance per time unit .


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## mikey (Jul 31, 2017)

Siggi said:


> Hey Mike, thanks for taking the time to 'spain in detail - clearly I have a lot to learn. With a CNC and a lathe I can be TWICE as aware of my ignorance per time unit .



Trust me, Siggi, we are all still learning - when we stop, we're dead!


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## Siggi (Jul 31, 2017)

Hey y'all,

in case you're keeping score, the PM1236 is the winner for me. The D1-5 chuck is not an advantage for the Grizzly, and the feed/speed gearbox on the PM is quite adequate. As it's oil-filled may have better lasting power to boot. The foot brake, feed clutch, cast iron stand and tooling win the day.

Note, however, that I've been in email correspondence with Grizzly, and their sales folks do claim the stand you get is cast iron. For anyone who happens upon this thread, if you're planning to buy the Grizzly G4003G, have them confirm that the stand is cast iron as opposed to welded steel. I have a hunch they'll ship you the cast iron stand if you very pointedly ask for it, or otherwise you can chew them up and hit them for a discount if they end up shipping the welded steel stand...

The next question is what, if any, of the offered additional tooling to throw on the order.

Siggi


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## mikey (Aug 1, 2017)

I just looked at the difference between the standard and preferred packages and for $300.00, you just cannot beat what they're offering. Just the QCTP and foot brake alone are more than worth the cost. I'm not sure that the coolant pump is something you'll use. I have the hook ups for one and have no intention of dealing with the mess but that's me. 

I personally would prefer an aftermarket live center (Skoda, Royal or equivalent) and an Albrecht keyless chuck but that can come later when funds allow. At least the stuff they include will get you started. 

I think a DRO is a good thing to have. They are asking for over $600.00 to install a glass scale DRO. I might forego that and look into other options. DRO Pros will get close to that price and include magnetic scales so something to think about.

If you haven't run a lathe before or do not own cutting tools then they're offering that BXA turning/boring set and the threading tool set at a very good price. It includes enough inserts to keep you cutting for a very long time. The turning and boring tool holders are of the SCLCR type, probably the most popular configuration in most hobby shops. Inserts are readily available for reasonable prices on ebay. The threading tools use an ER-16 insert, also very popular and Carmex inserts for these are fairly cheap and easily obtained. For the cost they're charging, its hard to beat and you'll need these tools. Of course, you can go cheaper by using HSS tooling; HSS has many advantages over carbide but it requires you to know how to grind those tools and that can come later.

So, if this was me buying this lathe, I would go for the preferred package and also buy the turning/boring tool and threading tool packages. I would buy a DRO from DRO Pros or some other source and install it myself. 

Now I'll step aside and let the PM lathe owners tell you how it really is.


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## Siggi (Aug 1, 2017)

mikey said:


> I just looked at the difference between the standard and preferred packages and for $300.00, you just cannot beat what they're offering. Just the QCTP and foot brake alone are more than worth the cost.



Yeah, the foot brake is a big selling point for me for this lathe, and the preferred package is the way to go.



mikey said:


> So, if this was me buying this lathe, I would go for the preferred package and also buy the turning/boring tool and threading tool packages.



Thanks for the detailed explanation again - makes sense to me to get the tooling I'd need to start making mistakes right away .



mikey said:


> I would buy a DRO from DRO Pros or some other source and install it myself.



Yeah, a DRO will have to wait a bit, and it looks like it'll involve a bit of research to figure out what's what there...


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## Cheeseking (Aug 1, 2017)

Agree 100% foot brake is a must.   That and if possible 3 phase powered so you get instant stopping/reversing.   
Haven't seen the tooling in question but I do have a DroPro mag scale unit (el400?) and it has been awesome.   Not mandatory but if you have the scratch its a great add on.   Be aware tho its not open the box and plug in deal.  Depending on the machine, dro install can be straightforward or quite challenging.  They give you some standard brackets etc but more than likely you'll need to customize or make your own.


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## Siggi (Aug 19, 2017)

So this Meuser M0L ~1840 (230mm/1000mm I think in Euro-speak) just turned up around here at an asking price of about two songs and a hot dog. I went to have a look, and what a beauty she is.
Comes with a three/four jaw chuck and a steady rest, maybe some other tooling. Four post toolholder. The quick-change gearbox cuts just about any thread, metric or imperial. The spindle bore is 47mm or ~1" 15/16. The motor is a 3ph 600V beast, probably 5.5 or 7.5 horses strong. There's a mechanical clutch that winds up the spindle in either direction, and a brake when you return the lever to neutral. The bed has a gap, and she'd probably swing the PM-1236 in it. The carriage runs on two V's and has these long covers for the ways front and back. In the apron is an oiling mechanism for the ways, which were oil-slicked and looked pristine to my eyes. I didn't measure it, but it wouldn't surprise me if the distance between the carriage V's on the ways was roughly the width of the PM-1236. The tailstock runs on a third V which is unprotected and is a little chowdered up towards the headstock.
She measures about 40" deep to the back of the motor, roughly 7.5' long, and weighs in at something like 3000lb. The guy offered to deliver for no extra charge. Sadly I can't think of a way to fit'er in my basement, and even if I could, I don't know how she'd get in there.
Prime example of how much more lathe you get in "old iron" than new, and I'm still thinking whether I mightn't somehow jack up my second floor for an afternoon and slide her in through the breech .


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## Silverbullet (Aug 20, 2017)

Siggi said:


> So this Meuser M0L ~1840 (230mm/1000mm I think in Euro-speak) just turned up around here at an asking price of about two songs and a hot dog. I went to have a look, and what a beauty she is.
> Comes with a three/four jaw chuck and a steady rest, maybe some other tooling. Four post toolholder. The quick-change gearbox cuts just about any thread, metric or imperial. The spindle bore is 47mm or ~1" 15/16. The motor is a 3ph 600V beast, probably 5.5 or 7.5 horses strong. There's a mechanical clutch that winds up the spindle in either direction, and a brake when you return the lever to neutral. The bed has a gap, and she'd probably swing the PM-1236 in it. The carriage runs on two V's and has these long covers for the ways front and back. In the apron is an oiling mechanism for the ways, which were oil-slicked and looked pristine to my eyes. I didn't measure it, but it wouldn't surprise me if the distance between the carriage V's on the ways was roughly the width of the PM-1236. The tailstock runs on a third V which is unprotected and is a little chowdered up towards the headstock.
> She measures about 40" deep to the back of the motor, roughly 7.5' long, and weighs in at something like 3000lb. The guy offered to deliver for no extra charge. Sadly I can't think of a way to fit'er in my basement, and even if I could, I don't know how she'd get in there.
> Prime example of how much more lathe you get in "old iron" than new, and I'm still thinking whether I mightn't somehow jack up my second floor for an afternoon and slide her in through the breech .


Rent a backhoe and dig a walk in basement door . Easier then jacking u p or over


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## Cheeseking (Aug 21, 2017)

Bummer.  Sounds like a nice lathe. Could you get it down in pieces??


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## richl (Aug 21, 2017)

Sounds interesting. This lathe could have been a civil war lathe, a Mexican war lathe, a WWI lathe and many minor conflicts veteran wow!!! 
Garage sounds like the best idea. By the time you rent the backhoe, a couple guys to assist, knock through foundation... it's starting to get into real money...

Hth

Rich


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## Siggi (Sep 29, 2017)

Just to follow up on this message.
I did look out for gently used old iron some more.
I looked at a beautiful old - 1969 vintage - Harrison 13MD with 24" between centers. The gentleman who owns it is a real class act, had hooked it up to power for showing it off, and was very upset to find that the motor bearings had apparently given up the ghost since he last used it. Apart from being quite growly in the motor, it was in great shape. After sleeping on it, however, I decided to pass as the spindle clutch lever on this one is on top of the headstock way to the back. Imagine me the n00b (or my children) seeing the work starting to wobble, and the only way to shut the show down is to reach around and over the trouble for the spindle clutch lever.
I saw a 1963 vintage Clausing 5914 come and go. Unfortunately I was sick the weekend after it was listed, and the following week it was gone. This would have been ideal, as it has a spindle clutch and brake on a lever hanging off the apron.
In the end I went through and ordered the PM-1236, now waiting on delivery.


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## richl (Sep 29, 2017)

The 12x36 class machine is really a great price point, I really like the specs on the pm1236 machine, you really get a lot for your money. Great choice!

Have fun making chips.
Rich


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## Bob Korves (Sep 29, 2017)

I think the 12x36 class machines are a really nice fit for many hobby machinists.  For me, the mix of price point, size, capacity, power, versatility, and available tooling is the sweet spot of lathes.  I was about ready to break down and buy a new one when a great deal on my Kent 13x40 came along, local, unused, and priced fairly.


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## Siggi (Nov 30, 2017)

I have my PM-1236 in, and I think it's going to be a really good (beginners?) machine for me. Thanks to everyone who persuaded me toward that direction.

I can see what people are about on the fit and finish of the Chinese lathes though. The 3-jaw chuck was full of grinding dust, but after flushing and lubing it, it moves quite well. You'd be well advised to check every screw on the lathe for tightness, including the electrical connections and the retaining nuts on the front panel. The mechanics do seem to be quite sound, though I'm in no way a machinist.
For me, the best feature is that the foot brake will stop the chuck on a dime, which is super reassuring for me and my full complement of 10 thumbs.

I did get the cast-iron stands and the $100 PM leveling pads. The cast-iron stands are probably worth the $200, time will tell. They're certainly no light weights.
However, I don't like how wobbly the lathe feels, standing on the leveling pads. I figure I'll be putting some - say 1.5"-2" - square profile under there to get the lathe a deeper "stance" with more stability, and to raise the working height a bit as others have done. I'm 6'2", so I could do with a bit more working height.

I also must mention that Matt of Precision Matthews is a total class act, and I can't recommend PM highly enough for communication and service. Matt patiently answered email after email of my n00b questions, often at odd hours, and most often pretty much immediately.
There was a small discrepancy in the tooling spec from when I bought the lathe to when the shipment came in, but PM made good on the original spec as a matter of course - and then some.
I'm not going to mention the competition by name, as I'd never consider them again.

edit: delete repetitive repeated repeat.


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## richl (Nov 30, 2017)

Siggi said:


> I have my PM-1236 in, and I think it's going to be a really good (beginners?) machine for me. Thanks to everyone who persuaded me toward that direction.
> 
> I can see what people are about on the fit and finish of the Chinese lathes though. The 3-jaw chuck was full of grinding dust, but after flushing and lubing it, it moves quite well. You'd be well advised to check every screw on the lathe for tightness, including the electrical connections and the retaining nuts on the front panel. The mechanics do seem to be quite sound, though I'm in no way a machinist.
> For me, the best feature is that the foot brake will stop the chuck on a dime, which is super reassuring for me and my full complement of 10 thumbs.
> ...



Did I miss the pics? I can't see them
I know you wouldn't come here to tell us about your new machine and not post some pics

Yea, a frame underneath is a nice welding project and gets the machine at a height you feel comfortable using... I have never used aftermarket feets, I've made them for my machines, they seem to be working for me, I have heard others say they like the isolation they get from some of the aftermarket feet... your call.

If your cast iron base is anything like the one I have on my 14x40 Chinese lathe from pm, they are above and beyond what the steel bases are, you made a good purchase.

As far as fit and finish on the Chinese lathes, you have it, don't take anything for granted, all bolts should be considered loose until verified. The head alignment bolts on my lathe were loose when I was working on the motor... I tightened them up, I need to check my lathe again soon, I'll make sure everything is good than...

Good luck with your lathe, looking forward to seeing some pics

Rich


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## Mitch Alsup (Dec 1, 2017)

Siggi said:


> Note, however, that I've been in email correspondence with Grizzly, and their sales folks do claim the stand you get is cast iron. For anyone who happens upon this thread, if you're planning to buy the Grizzly G4003G, have them confirm that the stand is cast iron as opposed to welded steel.



I happen to have a G4003G from earlier in the spring. 

And to the question of why a 1.57" spindle bore is better than a 1.50" spindle bore, 50 caliber barrels come from the barrel makers at 1.5" diameter and can be indicated true in the 1.57" spindle bore with the spider bolts, but not in a 1.5" bore--should you be into that kind of thing.

I will check on what the stands are made of this afternoon.


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## Mitch Alsup (Dec 1, 2017)

I checked the stands on my G4003G: the stands are made of steel.

I don't know if these are standard stands, but I just ordered it and that is what showed up.
I also don't know if Griz can ship cast iron stands.

I have no problem with the stands that did arrive.


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## Siggi (Dec 1, 2017)

richl said:


> Did I miss the pics? I can't see them
> I know you wouldn't come here to tell us about your new machine and not post some pics
> ...
> Good luck with your lathe, looking forward to seeing some pics
> Rich



Aw, man, good point - I'll get some pics RSN. I'm kinda ashamed that it's not totally buried in chips - yet.
I've mainly been cutting delrin/acetal and 6061 aluminum. I tried some pedigree-absent steel from the local Home Depot, but it cuts like @$%!. Even at 2thou/rev the surface finish looks like congealed barf, so much that I thought it'd horked the insert I was using.

In general I'm having trouble finding local suppliers for all the things I need(TM) and online is ugly expensive for prices and shipping both.

Case in point is I wanted to get proper way oil (ISO 68) for this lathe. I found I could get some from Traverse Canada, but minimum quantity is 5 gallon, and between the price and shipping, you're looking at CAD $300. Eventually I found a local supplier who'll do business with hobbyists (http://www.lubri-delta.com/), but the guy I spoke to laughed in my face when I asked about a liter/quart quantity. Minimum quantity is 5 gallon, but the price was quite reasonable (CAD $80), so I have some now. It'll last me a while too...
BTW: OMG the way oil is different from the oil I was using before, totally worth the hassle. I was using transmission fluid, and by comparison the way oil is tacky, sticky, tacky(!!!). With the transmission fluid you squirt some on, and it's good for a job (on my Taig CNC), but if you come back the day after it's gone - evaporated or dripped off, I don't know. The way oil, on the other hand, sticks around in a big way. I come back to my lathe a week later and I can see it puddling up towards the lower extremities of the Vs of the ways, but still very much hanging around.

I've been looking for a local supplier that'll cough up some parting tools (say 1/8" by 11/16"), but so far no one has any in stock.
Industrial (http://industrial.ca) have an open counter with a super-nice guy behind it who's now starting to recognize me (is that a good/bad/indifferent sign?). They had the center drills I was looking for in stock, but I bought their last HSS tool blank, and they had no suitable parting tools in stock.
The guy behind the counter is super-nice as I mentioned, and he gave me the coordinates for the competition, but alas no suitable parting tools in stock there either. So, I'll order some HSS parting tools from industrial, buy a bench grinder and get on with it.

Incidentally, what are starter-friendly steel grades to work with?
Locally I've so far found only http://www.acierlachine.com, who'll do A36/44W, 1141, 1018, 1045, 12L14, STRESSPROOF, 4140 and 4340 in round stock.
I'm using CCMT/CCMG index tooling - though I don't know the specifics on the inserts I got with the PM-supplied tooling I bought.


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## Grandpop (Dec 1, 2017)

2 years ago I was looking for a 12 x 36, as it had the minimum features a bigger unit would have. I found a lightly used G4003 5 miles away for less than half of new cost. I like it a lot.

Had a few times that the 1.5 spindle bore was too small, but the 1.57 would not have helped. So far 1400 rpm has been enough for me, but depends on diameters you expect to turn.


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## Siggi (Dec 1, 2017)

Mitch Alsup said:


> I checked the stands on my G4003G: the stands are made of steel.



Thanks - I really can't tell the difference (yet?), but the cast-iron stands I got with the PM are heavy, so much so that I didn't dare lift them alone. The difference in weight between steel and cast iron bases is ~200lb, so I'm guessing they weigh on the order of 150lbs each for a total of 300lb or so.


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## ezduzit (Dec 1, 2017)

Siggi said:


> ...having trouble finding local suppliers...I wanted to get proper way oil....



You should be able to find chain saw bar oil.


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## richl (Dec 1, 2017)

I've been using aw32 hydrallic oil on my ways and headstock oil on 2 of my lathes. I get it at the local automotive store Napa. I think it was in the 30-40 USD range last 5 gallon bucket


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## richl (Dec 1, 2017)

12l14 machines machines nice, aluminium machines easy also either one will get you going without giving too much trouble.


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## SSage (Dec 1, 2017)

No. 2 Way oil is sold on eBay in small amounts. ISO 68 is sold at tractor and farm supplies too.

I just put my PM1236 on the floor using large 3/4" machine washers and sheet metal shims. I think its good to go if it keeps alignment, it feels solid and stable on the cast stands. I was surprised how straight and smooth the lathe runs, better than expected. I've never had a flood coolant system before, but I figure its time I tried using it since its there.

12L14 is the go to easy to machine steel. Like this stuff: https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-steel-rods/=1ai3ep8
Here are a few more options: https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-steel-rods/=1ai3en8

Depends on what you want to make. I use mainly O1 and A2 drill rod for tool and die making. I tend to use steels that can be heat treated for durable tools. I sometimes will use cheap cut offs, the local scrap yard may have some good stuff to practice on.


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