# Shop Power



## Bill Rosselot (Nov 6, 2015)

I'm looking to install power to my shop. I'm only going to have approx 150amps of 220 single phase. Is this going to be enough to run 3ph equipment? I know you cant run it all at once but just need some help on this. I have a 200amp service to my house and want to pull a 150 amp sub panel. My son in-law is an electrician so it will be to code for sure. But I just need some help and see what other guys have.

Thanks
Bill


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## scsmith42 (Nov 6, 2015)

150a should be fine. You could run a 25hp RPC on that service.


Scott


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## Andre (Nov 6, 2015)

I believe my 1hp 3ph surface grinder on a 5hp rotary converter is on two 15 amp breakers, never had a breaker trip.


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## wawoodman (Nov 6, 2015)

I have both my lathe, with a static convertor, and a mill, with a VFD, on the same 20 amp line. I only run one at a time, of course!


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## TOOLMASTER (Nov 6, 2015)

the thing i like about electricity....it doesn't leak once you get it all done and try it...sure sometimes it buzzes and sparks fly but it doesn't leak. ;-)


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## Andre (Nov 6, 2015)

TOOLMASTER said:


> the thing i like about electricity....it doesn't leak once you get it all done and try it...sure sometimes it buzzes and sparks fly but it doesn't leak. ;-)


It kinda does. Resistance!


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## coolidge (Nov 6, 2015)

TOOLMASTER said:


> the thing i like about electricity....it doesn't leak once you get it all done and try it...sure sometimes it buzzes and sparks fly but it doesn't leak. ;-)



OMG you reminded me how much I utterly hate plumbing!!


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## wawoodman (Nov 6, 2015)

I don't much care if it's plumbing or electrical, as long as I can do it standing up. My knee and ladder days are far behind me.


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## JimDawson (Nov 6, 2015)

I'm running my shop on 50 amps, 240V.  3 HP mill, 3 HP lathe, 5 HP compressor,  7.5 Hp router, heavy welding equipment (300 amp welder).  Of course I can't run it all at once, but it works fine.  I think you will be just fine.


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## FOMOGO (Nov 6, 2015)

Pulling 150 amps off a 200 amp service doesn't  leave you much for your house. I have a feeling an inspector would have a hard time with that. Of course if you live in the shop like many of us it may work. Mike


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## TOOLMASTER (Nov 7, 2015)

i ran 50 out , only pops with full on hard ac tig welding aluminum


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## Eddyde (Nov 7, 2015)

150 Amps wow, Thats a lot of juice!!! What kinds of machines are you planning on? 
Mike is right, 





FOMOGO said:


> Pulling 150 amps off a 200 amp service doesn't  leave you much for your house.


Where I live, you can only exceed the total sum of the circuit breakers amperage by 20%,  so on a 200 amp panel you can have a max of 240 amps worth of breakers. If that's the case where you live 150 amp sub panel would leave you with only 90 amps for the rest of your home, not much for contemporary usage. Here in NYC the codes are very strict so you may be allowed more overage where you live.


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## tomw (Nov 7, 2015)

I hope your shop isn't too far from your main panel! You are going to have to run at least 2/0 cable, which is really expensive and a total PITA to deal with. 

As other have mentioned, are you sure you need 150 amps? 150 amps will provide you, at 240V, 36 kilowatts of power. We ran an entire ranch on 5 kw. True, we had to turn off the walk-in cooler whenever we ran our big welder (don't remember the size, but a huge, old, very inefficient arc welder). But still, 36 kw is a lot of power. If I have done the math right, that is around 35 HP. Or 45 HP, depending...


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## Bill Rosselot (Nov 9, 2015)

I actually pulled an 100 amp 220v single phase to the shop.  I have a 200amp Main which is allowed by code here in BFE Ohio.  I did have to run a service wiring in conduit underground and all the bull crap.  But hey the big Blue/White handy story had a chuck of wire that would work very well, and with an adapter kit we make it work.  Now we have an 100amp service into the shop.  Almost time to take pictures  but we have to do some internal wiring of the shop now.


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## Scruffy (Dec 18, 2015)

Hey bill,  what side of Columbus do you live on?
Thanks scruff


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## tpic402 (Dec 18, 2015)

I used to run 2 50amp sub panels one to the barn and one to the garage. barn is 225 ft away, and it worked ok.  Finally decided to be able to due more in any location I choose!  I  put a seperate  200 amp service to the garage. Now I should be good till they put me in the ground.    Just my 2 cents    What about heating garage


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## sanddan (Dec 21, 2015)

When I built my shop I had a separate 200 amp service put in. I had to trench from the ditch where the main electrical was fed to the house up to the shop, my electrician installed the panel and the utility installed the wires and hooked up for free. I did have a separate electrical bill for the shop for years until they switched to digital meters, now the house and shop are on one bill. Every thing in the shop except for the mill and lathe, which share a 30 amp circuit, have there own dedicated circuit from the panel. The panel is full of breakers now but it was years before I filled the last 4 spots. My setup might be overkill but I am glad I went as big as I did 20 years ago so I had room to grow.


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## yendor (Dec 21, 2015)

Currently building a new house and running a 100 Amp Sub Panel to the garage.

That will only see a small welder and air compressor.
Well...- who knows what else might move in over time but it will always be limited as it's only a slightly oversize 2 car garage.


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## Bill Rosselot (Dec 22, 2015)

Scruffy said:


> Hey bill,  what side of Columbus do you live on?
> Thanks scruff


I live on the south end over towards Grove City, but Ive found a place up North of Delaware that has a big enough shop so I can get all my machines up and running, right now everything is in storage, and has been for a few years.

Bill


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## Bill Rosselot (Dec 22, 2015)

Thanks guys  I found a place that has a large enough shop for all my toys!!!! and I talked to the electric company and they can give me another 200 amp service, plus they are checking on 3 - phase now.  It would be in my dreams to have that, but the place next door about a 1/2 a mile has 3-phase and so maybe.
Thanks again for all of your help.  I need to get my toys out of storage soon.  they have been there way to long.  Will be looking for new toys also as the deals come up.

Bill


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## Old Iron (Dec 22, 2015)

I run a 10 HP RPC and I've ran my lathe vertical and horizontal mill at the same time, Prolly could run all my machines at the same time. Only one lathe and the shaper left, But the mills will stop at the end of travel so I don't worry about not watching them to close.

Paul


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## abrace (Dec 26, 2015)

Problem with a dedicated 200A service for the shop is that you are probably going to end up paying a second meter fee, and those have been going up up up in price. Used to be a couple of bucks a month, but since people have been conserving more power and installing Solar, the PoCos have been succesful in getting it raised to keep their revenue up. Im paying $15/month for the meter fee now, and I saw they want to raise it to $30.

With the shop I am finishing building right now (just had my electrical rough-in inspection completed on Xmas Eve!) I have a 125A feeder off of my 200A main. Why did I go with a 125A? Well, that is a good size as it keeps you in the cheaper sizes for panel, wire, and breakers. Most companies offer load centers with 125A busses, and the next size up is 200A. If you go with a 150A you will be forced into the 200A bus size. Also, assuming that you pipe it underground and pull THHN/THWN you can get away with 2AWG copper or 1/0 Aluminum for the feeder (using the next size up OCPD rule). This is economical and stays within a wire size that is easier to work with. Going up to 150A you need to step up to 1/0 copper or 2/0 Aluminum...getting a little big.

The last issue is that if it is being run as a sub feeder off of the main (and not as a tap off of feed through lugs), you will need to find a feeder breaker that fits in your existing main house panel that can handle 150A. Most residential load centers only offer branch circuit/feeder breakers up to 125A size and those that offer 150A feeder breakers are usually special order and take FOUR panel spaces in your main panel because most residential panel busses can sink only 125A per bus stab/space max. As soon as you go above 125A for a feeder in a residential setting, the costs start to go up rapidly...not worth it for an extra 25A in my opinion.

        In my case there was no concern from the inspector or anyone about not leaving enough for my house as a previous poster stated...service sizing is done based on calculated load. If you calculate the load using the procedure in the NEC most of us would be surprised at how small our electrical service really needs to be.

        Sure, you may have electric baseboard heat needing 50A and an Air Conditioner with a 30A breaker, but they aren't run at the same time, and many breakers (such as ones for ACs) are sized for startup inrush and not running current making the load look artificially high if you just look at breaker handles.

       Just some thoughts.

---Aaron


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