# Considering Altas MF Mill Purchase



## David Pollard (Jan 14, 2014)

Hi Guys,
I found one of these on "The Bay" and I'm looking for opinions from people who have used them or something similar in the past.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181301489686&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:AU:1123

I was never big on horizontal Mills in my Fitter and Turner days we used to use vertical mills most of the time.
I guess nothing you couldn't work around with some imagination and an angle plate.

The guy tells me the model is an MF.
He also tells me that it is 240V single phase which suits me.
It has no tooling apart from the cutter currently on the arbour.

It is a fair way from home so I can't go and look at it before I purchase.

Does anyone know where I can find a manual on line.  That way I can look up more details.

Thanks for any comments

David


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## chuckorlando (Jan 14, 2014)

Is this it? http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4646


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## wa5cab (Jan 14, 2014)

David,

It appears to be in good condition.  Nice paint.  However, given the age it's probably been repainted.  And it's hard to tell whether it just had a fresh coat of paint slapped on it or was done properly.

The nameplate says MF.  The serial number says MFA.  I'm not through with my research yet, and the freight company that appears to be holding my similar machine hostage isn't helping any.  But my conclusion so far is that Atlas assigned the MFA nomenclature only after they decided to come out with the MFB.  So all MFA's may have MF nameplates.  

Atlas came out with a parts manual in 1962 that covers MF through MFC.  The manual isn't in the Downloads section yet but we (I) will fix that as we get farther into restoring Downloads.  In the meantime, go to Downloads/Atlas.../Atlas Mills and download the one mill manual that's there.  The major differece between the models is the number of spindle speeds, as follows:

MF/M1/MH  16-speed
MFA/M1A/MHA  12-speed
MFB/M1B/MHB  8-speed
MFC/M1C/MHC  8-speed plus additional arbor support.

Looking at the photos that the seller has posted, it appears that the countershaft cone pulley isn't original.  It should be a 3-step but as best I can see is two 2-step.  He doesn't show a photo of the spindle pulley.

I don't know the current exchange rate between US$ and A$ and have no idea what MF*'s go for in Australia.  On the plus side, it has the belt guards, which at least up here is moderately rare.  And it still has the overarm guard which is even less common here.

I'll also comment that unlike the lathes, at least in the US is is fairly uncommon for Atlas mills to turn up with much in the way of accessories or cutters.

Final comment tonight is that the stand it is on is shop made, not original.  It looks pretty well made but lacks the drip pan.

Robert D.


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## David Pollard (Jan 15, 2014)

chuckorlando said:


> Is this it? http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4646



From what Wa5cab says it's close.
My understanding now is MF = MFA (mostly)

The above manual is for a MFC so it's two models later on.
David

- - - Updated - - -

BTW The Australian dollar hovers above and below one to one with the US dollar.
Currently one Australian dollar buys about 92 US cents.

I haven't seen any Atlas Lathes in Australia over the last 6 months (since I have been looking)  so I can't guess what they normally sell for 
I'm mainly interested in an Atlas because it will look nice in my shed next to my Atlas Lathe


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## chuckorlando (Jan 15, 2014)

I thin this pdf covers bout all of them. ftp://icksie.no-ip.org/EBooks/Workshop/Workshop and Tools/ATLAS Milling Machine.pdf

I know nothing about these so I could be linking the wrong thing for ya. But it say's mfa, mfb, mfc etc..


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## VSAncona (Jan 15, 2014)

I just bought a similar one (MFC model) a couple of weeks ago. Thread here -- http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/19962-My-new-Atlas-Milling-Machine

I'm still getting mine cleaned up, so I can't comment on how well it works. But looking at the photos for the one you are considering, I notice that there's no vise included. The original vises seem to go for quite a bit, so you might want to take that into consideration. Also, the cover on the overarm doesn't look like an original Atlas, so I wouldn't get too excited over that. 

The main difference between the one you're looking at the later models is the later ones had an arbor support bar. Apparently it makes a pretty big difference in preventing chatter and improving the quality of cut.

Edit to add: In looking at the pictures closer, it looks like there's something funky with the left-hand feed wheel on the table. It looks like some sort of modification. Also, in that last photo of the cutter, is that rust on the arbor, overbar, and table?

It's always a challenge to evaluate a machine without being able to see it in person.


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## David Pollard (Jan 16, 2014)

Hi VSAncona,
Thanks for the detailed response, all good observations.
I also spotted the rust.  Doesn't look too serious but something else to deal with.

It has probably been a lot of years with no use.
I is looking a bit expensive to me.  I might wait and see if anyone at all bids on it.
life not Ill make him an offer after the auction.  Deepens how much he wants to get rid of it I guess.

How does the extra support work on the later models?
i wonder if I could add something myself later on.

David

Edit
i see The support bracket on nine4gmc's machine.
(nice workshop btw)


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## chuckorlando (Jan 16, 2014)

If your looking at an auction, I would tell you to never, ever bid till the last 60 seconds. All you do is drive the price up bidding any sooner. In fact I wait till about 20 seconds left and bid my low and set auto bid for my high. I never show my hand with more then 60 seconds. I aim for 15-20 seconds in the hopes that my auto bid and short time leaves little room to out bid me.


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## wa5cab (Jan 16, 2014)

David,

The link that Chuckorlando posted is to the 1962 MMB-5 that I referring to earlier.  If you go to file pages 16 & 17 (manual pages 9 & 10) you will see that if gives S/N 1345-5465 as the range for the MFA.  MMB-5 is the only one I've turned up that covers the MF or MFA.  

I've seen photos of several nameplates in the lower part of this range that all had the 3-step (12-speed) pulleys.  I've also seen photos of #902 that has the 3-step pulleys.  My only guess there is that it is a Frankenmill.

If the mill were up here, I would say that despite the apparent nice paint job, $1200 (or 92% of that) is high for just the bare mill.  However, as I've said before even up here in the US what's considered an acceptable price for any of the Atlas machines varies widely depending upon location.  I recently bought from near Detroit (but haven't yet received) an MF/MFA for $750.  It included the horizontal indexer.  And an incomplete MFC for $700 that included the original factory steel stand and drip pan.

Robert D.


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## VSAncona (Jan 16, 2014)

I agree with Robert that the price seems pretty high for the U.S., but maybe where you are it's not out of line? I paid about the same as Robert did for my MFC and a few people here commented that I spent too much. But I'm happy with my purchase so that's all that really matters in my book.

One thing that I've read on several other forums is that you can get a lot more mill for the same or less money than you would spend on an Atlas. The Atlas machines seem to go for a premium simply because they are small and easy to move into a basement or home shop.


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## David Pollard (Jan 16, 2014)

All great info guys, I also adopt the never bid until the last minute approach to eBay. Although sometimes I will bid $1 so the seller can't easily cancel the auction without giving me the option to complain.  I live out in the country so this kind of thing is rare within driving distance.  Even this one will be a full day return trip.  As I said I'm not going to bid at $1200au.  You are right about the size, I don't need an industrial strength machine in my shed.  Also 240v single phase is portant. For some reason 3 phase converters are very expensive here.
David


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## John Hasler (Jan 16, 2014)

pollardd said:


> Also 240v single phase is important. For some reason 3 phase converters are very expensive here.
> David



With a well controller relay and caps from some dead air-conditioners you can build your own.


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## wa5cab (Jan 16, 2014)

*Re: Considering Altas MF Mill Purchasehttp://www.hobby-machinist.com/forumdisplay.php/86-ATLAS-amp-C*

One thing that I forgot to comment on is the extra support bar that came with the MFC (and M1C and MHC).  If you eliminate the overarm guard, it can be fitted to the earlier models.  But you also have to change the original support block.  There are some other minor parts differences between the MFB and MFC but the support bar is the major one.

Robert D.


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## Restorer (Jan 17, 2014)

I have an Atlas Horizontal probably manufactured in the early 1940's. When I purchased it their were a few broken parts I had to make.

The origional universal joints for table power feed are fragile zinc die cast. Mine are now steel. The motor and jack shaft pullys were missing.
I put on aluminum cone pulleys and use the first 2 steps of 4. The key way, cut into the table screw had sharp edges and burrs that badly wore the nut.
I made a nut and wore that out as well. When installing the second newly made nut I deburred the keyway edges with a wire wheel, NO problems with that since.

In general I am very satisfied with mine mill for the size of work I do.

I have built a lot of tooling which I will photograph and show in the future. 
My mill came with a 7/8 arbor and I have built a 1 inch. Keep the cutter diameter down around 3 inch to avoid overloading the gears when machining steel.

Keep cutters sharp, minimize cantilever situations when holding material and vibration will be minimal.

Check setups prior to engaging the power feed. If the overarm support contacts the vise a crash will occur. 
The zinc die cast gears and universals in the power feed will not tolerate a crash. They break, then you have to machine replacements. 

If an Atlas mill can be obtained at a reasonable cost, it is an excellent choice for the home shop.


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## John Hasler (Jan 17, 2014)

nine4gmc said:


> The original u-joints are probably lightweight cast on purpose, to be the weak link.



It's all new to me too, but as an engineer I'd say the right way to provide a "weak link" is with a properly designed shear pin.


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## VSAncona (Jan 19, 2014)

David -- Let us know if you end up buying it.

Vince


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## papermaker (Jan 19, 2014)

I picked up an Atlas MFC in a package deal so I can't really comment on the price. The little mill has it's limitations but for the most part they are very well built for their size. It does offer some challenges when it comes to clamping work to the table as there is only one T-slot.  Mine also has some parts that came broken such as the cam lever that switches it in and out of back gears and the crank that raises and lowers the table was broken. These things will be easy to repair.


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## ksierens (Jan 20, 2014)

Love those mills, I have already warned my wife that if I every have the room, oh and the money of course, I would get one, and maybe a 7" shaper too!

Good luck!


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## David Pollard (Jan 22, 2014)

I love shapers too. Always underrated.  I used to use a planner which is like a shaper except the tool is stationary and the table moved.  Table was about 6' long and 3' wide.  Great fun to use if it didn't bowl you over.
Still no bids on the auction


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## wa5cab (Jan 23, 2014)

Papermaker,

I have a parts MFC that I bought mainly for the stand to go under an MF (MFA) I bought that still hasn't been delivered.  If the MFA doesn't need it, the table handwheel (crank) on the MFC is intact and should clean up OK.  The back gear eccentric and lever has the lever broken off, which unfortunately seems to be a common situation.  I'm still waiting to find out about the one on the MFA.  And a few other parts.

Robert D.



papermaker said:


> I picked up an Atlas MFC in a package deal so I can't really comment on the price. The little mill has it's limitations but for the most part they are very well built for their size. It does offer some challenges when it comes to clamping work to the table as there is only one T-slot.  Mine also has some parts that came broken such as the cam lever that switches it in and out of back gears and the crank that raises and lowers the table was broken. These things will be easy to repair.


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## VSAncona (Jan 23, 2014)

wa5cab said:


> Papermaker,
> 
> I have a parts MFC that I bought mainly for the stand to go under an MF (MFA) I bought that still hasn't been delivered.  If the MFA doesn't need it, the table handwheel (crank) on the MFC is intact and should clean up OK.  The back gear eccentric and lever has the lever broken off, which unfortunately seems to be a common situation.  I'm still waiting to find out about the one on the MFA.  And a few other parts.
> 
> Robert D.




Did you get the wood cabinet or the sheet metal cabinet? Mine didn't come with a stand or cabinet so I'm going to have to build something. I would be interested in seeing some photos of yours.


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## VSAncona (Jan 24, 2014)

It looks like the mill in question sold with just one bid. Did you get it, David?


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## David Pollard (Jan 25, 2014)

VSAncona said:


> It looks like the mill in question sold with just one bid. Did you get it, David?


I decided not to place a bid as the starting price was a bit expensive.  It turned out that one person thought it was not. So good luck to the guy that got it 

It also wasn't that close to me, the return trip would have been over 600km.
Although I'm very unlikely to find what I'm looking close to home.

Thanks for all your assistance guys, my search will continue
David


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