# New Guy, New Mill (pm940)



## mrbasher (Jul 28, 2016)

Hello all!

I've looked at these forums many times but never had much to post so I never signed up. I finally signed up yesterday when I got sick of not being able to look at attachment images full size. haha

Anyhow, my new PM940 mill arrived just the other day and after quite the ordeal getting it up the driveway and into the garage, myself, I have been working to get all of the gunk off of it. The X and Y are now clean and ready to go. However, I want to get at the Z axis clean while the mill is still sitting on the pallet. I figured it might be easier that way... Maybe not. I can't seem to get the dang head pulled off it's mount. I have the head all the way down, supported by the spindle and the back of the head using some aluminum blocks on the table. I loosened the two bolts up... top... (and with that thought...)

I just went out in the garage to check and yep, there's another nut and bolt on the bottom. Jeez. I was just about to ask you guys why the head was so hard to take off and if you had any tips. Taking all the nuts off would be a start!

Anyhow, I'll post some photos of the mill soon along with some more thoughts later on, once I get the thing up on it's stand, etc.

I also ordered the mill with the 3 phase motor and VFD. I'm not interested in changing gears, but the main reason is I plan to CNC the mill in short order. Should be a fun time. 

Some quick thoughts:

Those of you that don't have one of these, this thing is huge. None of the photos I have seen of it really show the scale all that well. I have a photo of a beer can setting on the table, it's tiny on there. (Edit: attached the pic) I've seen people say you could mill an X2 on it easily. They aren't kidding. I have an X2 sitting near it. I have seen quite a few photos of your standard RF45 clone and this has definitely been scaled up. It doesn't just have larger travels, it IS larger.

A little about me, if you're interested:

I have an MicroMark X2 mill and a Grizzly 7x12 lathe. I also have a Chinese 6080 router which has probably routed about 10 miles of slots in plastic parts. (I'll probably post about that one another time) I've never liked the X2 and tried my best to get by with it but it has become more of a pain than it's worth. I even put some of those iGaging Absolute DRO's on it. (way too slow update speed, drove me nuts) I recently started doing some machining side jobs and the lathe and mill were making the process take FAR too long. I'd quote what was about 4 hours work and it'd take me well over 8.   I ALMOST pulled the trigger on a kitted out PCNC 1100, but that would have put me close to or over  $17,000. Too much, and I'd still just have a tiny lathe. After some research I settled on the PM940 and a PM1340GT. After CNC'ing the mill, I'll have an awesome lathe, AND a decent CNC machine... and still be well below that $17K mark.

I'm not sure if it's allowed for me to post a link to my site, since I sell stuff... However, I make lots of things for simulation racing as well. I'm hoping these two will help prototype some cool new sim racing gadgets for people. If you're interested in that, try googling my username, something is bound to turn up. 

Stay tuned!

Edit: Pardon the mess in the photo. I'd just finished dragging the thing up my driveway and only cleaned off part of the table on it. Had to take a beer break.


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## wrmiller (Jul 28, 2016)

Welcome to the H-M forums and the PM fraternity!


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## TomS (Jul 28, 2016)

Welcome aboard.  And nice machine!  There is a wealth of info on this site about CNC conversions that are applicable to your mill.   If you have questions or need information just start a thread and you will get more info than you bargained for.  I mean that in a good way.

Tom S.


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## mrbasher (Jul 29, 2016)

Thanks guys! I believe I've read quite a few posts by the two of you, and Dan, while researching which machines I was interested in. Thank you for the info. You're right, I was just thinking today, it's cool to be part of the club. 

Here's another pic I took today of one of the Y axis ways. Notice that little spot? Look close, it's like a spatter from a drop of something. I noticed it when I was cleaning up... Today I realized what it's from. It's the sweat from someone making my mill! I found that interesting. Well, it's a good guess at least. I'm basing it on some sweat that dripped off me yesterday while cleaning the machine in the heat outside. I forgot to wipe it off and it left a mark very similar. It wasn't there long enough to be permanent though. Those other specs are just dirt I need to wipe off.


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## mrbasher (Jul 29, 2016)

On another note. I did some research today on ball screws, servos and drives. I spoke with someone at DMM and he was extremely nice, very interested in what I was doing. I think I found some C5 ball screws that should do the trick, I hope... I almost just ordered them but decided to wait and do some research. They are 25mm diameter, which is the same as the lead screws. Actually, I'm pretty certain the lead screws are 1", so they are barely smaller than what is on it. Should be fine for x, y and z all around. So far it's only looking like I will need to whack away at the saddle a little to make the ball nut fit. That's basically a given it seems. Once I have figured out what I'm doing I will post up my plan of attack.


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## TomS (Jul 29, 2016)

mrbasher said:


> On another note. I did some research today on ball screws, servos and drives. I spoke with someone at DMM and he was extremely nice, very interested in what I was doing. I think I found some C5 ball screws that should do the trick, I hope... I almost just ordered them but decided to wait and do some research. They are 25mm diameter, which is the same as the lead screws. Actually, I'm pretty certain the lead screws are 1", so they are barely smaller than what is on it. Should be fine for x, y and z all around. So far it's only looking like I will need to whack away at the saddle a little to make the ball nut fit. That's basically a given it seems. Once I have figured out what I'm doing I will post up my plan of attack.



You may want to take a look at Linear Motion Bearing ball screws and nuts on eBay.  They have very good prices and delivery is very reasonable despite shipping from China.  For example, I recently purchased double ball nuts for X, Y and Z.  Price was $96 delivered and they showed up about 2 weeks after I ordered them.  Chai is the sales contact and is knowledgeable and responsive.  

Tom S.


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## jbolt (Jul 29, 2016)

mrbasher said:


> On another note. I did some research today on ball screws, servos and drives. I spoke with someone at DMM and he was extremely nice, very interested in what I was doing. I think I found some C5 ball screws that should do the trick, I hope... I almost just ordered them but decided to wait and do some research. They are 25mm diameter, which is the same as the lead screws. Actually, I'm pretty certain the lead screws are 1", so they are barely smaller than what is on it. Should be fine for x, y and z all around. So far it's only looking like I will need to whack away at the saddle a little to make the ball nut fit. That's basically a given it seems. Once I have figured out what I'm doing I will post up my plan of attack.



Congrats on the PM-940. I'm looking forward to following your CNC conversion. I would have gone the same route had the 940 been available when I bought the 932. The extra travel will serve you well. I like that they got rid of the stupid troughs on the base that collect crap (and coolant in my case).

I would recommend you disassemble the table and cross slide and measure everything before settling on the ball screws. The size of the ball nut (and ball nut mount) may determine how large a screw you can use. When I did the conversion on my PM932 using the Chinese ball screws the largest I could fit under the table was 20mm. The 20mm screws have been more than adequate. I use 20mm on the X & Y and 25mm on the Z. 

The DMM stuff looks really nice. I thought about it but went with an over sized servo system to keep within my budget.

What is the max spindle speed on the variable speed model? Last year I did the high speed spindle conversion replacing the taper roller bearings with AC bearings and a 2-step belt drive pulley to increase the RPM. I run 6k max but with the right motor could go 7-8k.


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## mrbasher (Jul 29, 2016)

TomS said:


> You may want to take a look at Linear Motion Bearing ball screws and nuts on eBay.  They have very good prices and delivery is very reasonable despite shipping from China.  For example, I recently purchased double ball nuts for X, Y and Z.  Price was $96 delivered and they showed up about 2 weeks after I ordered them.  Chai is the sales contact and is knowledgeable and responsive.
> 
> Tom S.



Tom,

Thank you for confirming that. I was just looking at them this morning. I'd seen them mentioned about 6 years ago by some people and wasn't sure if they were still good. Do you have them on a machine currently? If so, how are they working for you?

I keep going back and forth on ground vs. rolled. I think I've decided to go rolled C7. .002" error in 12" seems quite minimal and that is the MAXIMUM. It's quite possible, and from what I've read likely, I'd end up with much better than that. In the end, I'll be running Linux CNC anyhow and can map the ball screws. Most of the parts I'll be doing won't be sized greater than that 12" envelope anyhow. I'm sure I will be putting an array of parts across the table, but that is not the same thing. 



jbolt said:


> Congrats on the PM-940. I'm looking forward to following your CNC conversion. I would have gone the same route had the 940 been available when I bought the 932. The extra travel will serve you well. I like that they got rid of the stupid troughs on the base that collect crap (and coolant in my case).
> 
> I would recommend you disassemble the table and cross slide and measure everything before settling on the ball screws. The size of the ball nut (and ball nut mount) may determine how large a screw you can use. When I did the conversion on my PM932 using the Chinese ball screws the largest I could fit under the table was 20mm. The 20mm screws have been more than adequate. I use 20mm on the X & Y and 25mm on the Z.
> 
> ...



jbolt,

Yep. Not looking forward to it much, but I'll be taking the saddle and table back off to get dimensions on everything. I should have done it when I was cleaning but impatience got the best of me and I wanted to try things out. It's not hard, just takes time. Plus the table has to be well over 100 pounds on it's own. I'm gonna put it on a scale when I take it off because I'm curious.

The plan is to draw things up in solidworks then I can get all the dimensions, etc. worked out easily.

I'm not sure what the max spindle speed is yet, I'd guess it's limited by the motor itself. The motor runs 1880 rpm @ 60hz. I don't know what it can handle without grenading... The VFD can obviously run it past 60 hz, but again, I'm not sure what the motor can do. I tried looking up the model but it just comes up with old aliexpress listings that don't give much info. I'm sure Matt would give me whatever info he has on it... I should ask. I was reading a thread in here yesterday where someone was talking about running their 940 (CNC version I think) at something over 5K. I'll see if I can find it. I believe the VFD and motor I have are from the CNC version.

I'm going to have to check out your belt conversion as I'd like to do the same at some point.

With regard to measurements... There is ALMOST 2 inches of space between the table and saddle. While that seems like a lot, the ball screws I was looking at would require a bunch of screwing around in order to make them fit. So while they are ground C5 and about 1/3rd the cost they would normally be, the nut is just too big for my liking. I may still go that route, but I doubt it. The rolled ones I am looking at won't require nearly the same amount of "surgery."


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## jbolt (Jul 29, 2016)

I did the same thing and modeled everything is Solidworks. I disassembled the mill, measured and modeled each part with the necessary dimensions and reassembled the mill to manually machine all the parts. 

The taper roller bearings are limited to about 3k, after that you need the AC bearings. I run my 1755 PRM motor up to 105Hz max. With the 2:1 pulley ratio it gives me 6k.

I will be curious to see how the motor is coupled to the spindle on your machine. On my setup the belt drive eliminates the quill travel but I have no need to operate the machine manually by handles. I can manually machine just fine using a game pad at a pendant when I need to.

I also have rolled ball screws from Chai. You really cant beat the price for economy ball screws and you can get the ends machined to your specifications. Ground ball screws would be awesome but it is tough to justify the cost for a hobby machine. Your situation may be different. If you go the Chinese route I can send you an example of an order form to get the end machining to you specification. 

I think Tom S originally went with a single ball nut and later changed to a double ball nut. I have not heard how this has worked out for him. I went with two single ball nuts on each screw and set the preload with Bellville washers. I prefer the adustibility over the double nuts but it can take some trial and error to get it dialed in.


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## mrbasher (Jul 29, 2016)

My spindle is gear driven from the motor currently. They basically just took the standard motor off and bolted this one up. I need to do the rest myself once the VFD shows up. I'm not overly concerned about connecting it. I've programmed the ridiculous hyuang-whatever-it-is VFD I have on the 6080 router I have, the Hitachi should be a comparative breeze. At least the manual is understandable. (and readily available!)

I just checked out your CNC build thread jbolt. Looks awesome! Out of curiosity, what are the dimensions of your column? I keep looking around for the sake of comparison and I can't find anything.

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do for the motor sizing for each axis. At this point I'm looking at their DYN4 drivers and 750w servos for X and Y, and the 1.3KW for Z. I'd like to go direct drive if I can, but I haven't decided. I can always go direct drive first and if it doesn't pan out, use some reduction with pulleys. I did some calculations using this: http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Lead-Screw-Force-Torque-Calculator.phtml For the Z, I intentionally over-did it on the numbers. I put in 400 lbs for the head and friction at .25. It spit out 7Nm to lift the head. The 1Kw servo from DMM would probably do it, but... I also want the gibs fairly tight on the Z. I can always counterbalance it as well. Thoughts? I know you have a monster stepper for your Z and it's direct drive.

I'm not overly concerned about X and Y. The 750w servos seem to have enough guts to get the table moving around nicely. If not, I can use some reduction and still have pretty ridiculous rapids.
Unless my calculations are wrong:
Rated speed is 3000 rpm, ball screws will be 5mm lead. So... 3000 x 5 = 15000 mm/min. or about 590 ipm. Even if I did a 2:1 reduction, that's well over 200 ipm.  We shall see!

As for what I'm using it for... Ideally, I'd like to stay under .005" tolerances in that 12" "cube" if I can. That seems doable enough... Hell, that 6080 router I have, which really is a bunch of cheap stuff in my opinion, and not rigid at all, can do that.

I am of course open to suggestions!


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## mrbasher (Jul 29, 2016)

The dimensions for the column on my mill are:

Height - 41 1/4"
Width - 7 3/8" (at the base, before the flange)
Depth - 7 9/16" (at the base, before the flange)

It is tapered back to front, I haven't measured the top yet.


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## mrbasher (Jul 29, 2016)

Here's another bit of info, helps validate my Z axis choice, maybe...

The mill came with a Z lift motor. The motor is a 120w, 1700 rpm motor with a 10:1 gearbox on it. Who knows if it actually outputs that much, but lets go with it. The model is 90YYJ-120 .Looks like a nice motor actually, I'm sure I can find a use for it. 

So that's 120w at 1700rpm, which gives us .6779 Nm of torque. With the 10:1 reduction, that's 6.779 Nm of torque (but sloooow)

The Z servo I chose is 8.27 Nm rated, 23.3 Nm max. 1500 rpm rated, 3000 rpm max.

So, at a minimum, it should be able to lift it direct drive and at speed. Stop me if I'm thinking about this incorrectly.


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## jbolt (Jul 29, 2016)

Send me a PM with your email and I will send you my Solidworks files of my mill. You can compare dimensions and see how I approached things. I didn't have room to direct drive the X&Y so I used 1:1 timing pulleys. 

When I was helping the high school build a CNC router I drilled the 3" x 3" x 1/2" aluminum angle stock that attached the main 2" x 6" X axis rails to the table. There were 6 sets of 4 holes 15" apart. I drilled the first 2 sets of holes on the mill and then used an alignment pin to index the stock for each remaining 4 sets of holes. We had a 0.015" tolerance over the 78". The 2" x 6" rails were drilled by one of the manufacturing sponsors, who makes satallite parts for NASA, on their large CNC mill with a 60" x 120" bed so I know those were spot on. The holes I did on my will were within 0.005" of the Sponsors holes so my error over 15" was no more than o.oo1". 

The Z axis has a little more error due the the compromise between gib tension and head nod. Repeat ability is good for large movements but small movements, especially down, can have greater error due to the gib stiction. Next year I plan on tearing down the column and having the sides milled to accept linear rails to support the head to eliminate the nod and free up a gib tension a little. I toyed with a counter balance system hung toward the front of the head but it required more space behind the mill than I have.


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## TomS (Jul 30, 2016)

My mill (PM-932) has 1605 screws on the X and Y and a 2005 on the Z.  The original installation used single ballnuts and these worked well for the past year and a half.  The downside was backlash on the Y axis was .0018" and X was .0035".  So I opted to go with double ballnuts from Linear Motion Bearings.  I'm installing them now and hopefully will have the machine running in a couple of days.  I'll post the backlash findings in a few days.  

I hope i answered your questions.

Tom S.


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## mrbasher (Jul 30, 2016)

Tom,

Yes, that does help. Thank you. I'll be interested to know what you find out. Do either of you guys have any detailed specs on your ball screws and ball nuts? Things like DN values, etc?


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## TomS (Jul 30, 2016)

mrbasher said:


> Tom,
> 
> Yes, that does help. Thank you. I'll be interested to know what you find out. Do either of you guys have any detailed specs on your ball screws and ball nuts? Things like DN values, etc?



Got my mill back together and operational today.  After fiddling with AC bearing preload I ended up with about .0005" backlash on  X and Y.  The Z axis has about .003".  Not sure if it makes sense to spend more time trying to get it closer to zero as my motor standoff and AC bearing housing design is a pain to disassemble and reassemble.  Next step is to adjust the gibs.  Played with the Y gib a bit but not having much luck getting consistent dial indicator readings.  There's always tomorrow.

Tom S.


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## mrbasher (Jul 30, 2016)

That's pretty dang good! I don't think the z backlash would cause much of an issue given the types of moves it does, especially if you are using backlash compensation.


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## JimDawson (Jul 30, 2016)

TomS said:


> The Z axis has about .003". Not sure if it makes sense to spend more time trying to get it closer to zero as my motor standoff and AC bearing housing design is a pain to disassemble and reassemble



If you can preload the Z-axis in one direction or the other with a counter balance, you should be able to get that to zero backlash.


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## mrbasher (Jul 31, 2016)

So, I did some checking today on my CNC router, Just because well, I never have...

Using an Interapid .0005" indicator, I'm seeing almost no backlash. Granted, it's not a 10ths indicator, but you can infer quite a bit with it. As well, the router places very little strain on the axis. I also did some checking of the ball screw error over 12".  Unfortunately, I was using an iGaging Absolute scale and after some recent machining I don't trust them much. I wouldn't buy them again. Anyhow, I showed about .007" error. It might be right, it might not. I'm going to test another way.

That said, based on what I've seen, I'm going to go with the Chinese C7 ball screws and see how things go. I'd guess the ones on the router aren't much different. They are rolled.

Jbolt, thank you for the files, they work perfectly. Sorry I haven't had a chance the respond via email yet. Too many irons in the fire and too many 2 year olds and under running around.  (2)

On another note... I had a great, well I think, idea for a "speeder" spindle as Tormach calls it. More on that later. Should be simple to do once the conversion is done and I can do the mounts with CNC.


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## mrbasher (Aug 1, 2016)

Well I've officially dived in head first... (Dove? Don't think that's right)

I ordered Mesa 7I77-5I25 kit as well as my servos and drivers from DMM. DMM has been very helpful. We're even talking about some simulation applications for their equipment. Anyhow, I have 750 watt servos for x and y coming as well as a 1.3 kilowatt servo for Z. So, now I have an axis with a motor more powerful than my spindle... Haha! All of the drivers are DYN4 drivers. These should give me all the control I want/need. I'm a geek so I couldn't resist. Plus I had to get one for the Z servo anyhow. Their power supplies are integrated, making things less messy.

This is getting exciting. Just not sure when I'm going to work on it... I suppose after the kiddos go to bed every night and before I fill orders for the next day... Yikes.


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## JimDawson (Aug 1, 2016)

mrbasher said:


> Well I've officially dived in head first... (Dove? Don't think that's right)



Yup, ''Dove'' is correct (past tense of dive)   That's OK, we don't subtract points for misused words.

That is some serious hardware you have coming.  Should make a really nice setup, you're not going to run out of feed power.  Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

Those would be very happy running a 10x50 mill or bigger.  I'm installing new 750W servos on a customer's 120x60 MultiCam router next week.  I'm expecting 500 IPM rapids and up to 200 IPM cutting.


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## mrbasher (Aug 2, 2016)

Reminds me of another word, which sounds totally wrong when said correctly. I just can't remember what it is.

Thank you for the comments. You obviously know what you're doing and it gives me hope I'm headed in the right direction. I do realize that what I have purchased is likely overkill, especially for what I am doing right now. However, I done like being disappointed when I am the one in control and right now I am in control.  Mostly.

I'm not entirely sure how it will go but I really would like to just go direct drive. What I don't know is if the motor will fit on the Y axis to do that. Mounting it out aways will help of course, it won't be right up against the base anyhow. Though I just checked the model jbolt sent over and if my mill is like his, which it seems to be very close actually, the motor I purchased is just slightly too high. I need to measure my mill to be sure of course.


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## mrbasher (Aug 3, 2016)

Today I researched couplings for the ball screws and servos. Man there is a lot of stuff out there. In the process, I realized I somehow ordered keyed shafts on the 750 watt servos and a smooth shaft on the 1.3kW motor. I finally decided it would be better to have them all be slotted in case I end up going that route. In talking with DMM, they didn't have any of the slotted 1.3kW motors in stock and offered to just send me the 1.8kW motor instead as they had them in stock with a keyed shaft. So now, I have their largest servo coming for my Z axis. Sheesh. 

The VFD showed up today from PM. It's a Hitachi WJ200-015SF. I have to say, there is NO comparison between this and the VFD that came with my router. None. Tons of inputs on it, configurations, etc. Super well built, at least from what I can see.

I also put the head back on the 940, thinking I might have some time to play with the VFD and the mill. Unfortunately, I didn't. I also took it off and put it back on again tonight. Just trying to get things aligned. I have to use it to make the mounts etc. It's not difficult, just put some blocks under it and set it on the table, slide it out with the Y crank. Nothing new to you guys I'm sure.

I did decide to run some power over to it temporarily.  I couldn't resist. That little motor for moving the head up and down does just fine. In fact, just to see what it would do, I leaned on the head pretty good. (the top of it) and the motor barely changed pitch. I put enough weight on there I wasn't really comfortable with the scenario...  Anyhow, it was surprisingly strong. 

Seeing things light up and move was pretty awesome.


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## mrbasher (Aug 6, 2016)

Guys,

What kind of times should I expect if I order ballscrews from linearbearings and have the ends machined to spec? Also, will they put keyways in them? I can ask him on the keyways, I was mostly curious about the time frames.

Thanks!

Jon


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## jbolt (Aug 6, 2016)

Of the three orders I have done it was 2-3 weeks from order to delivery.


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## TomS (Aug 7, 2016)

+1 on what Jay said.

Tom S.


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## JimDawson (Aug 8, 2016)

One thing I forgot to mention, if there is a way to do it, set the torque / velocity limit on the motors very low to start out.  Just enough to move things.  You don't want the motors running away at full power.  Also, if possible, get the motors under control before installing the drive belt or coupling.  Once you are sure everything is under control and operating normally, then you can bring the torque back up to normal operating range.

These motors have enough power to do some physical damage to your machine if they run away.  By running away I mean that the motor comes up to full speed and can not be controlled by the computer.  This is pretty common when first setting up.


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## mrbasher (Aug 9, 2016)

Awesome, thanks guys!

The servos and drivers showed up yesterday. Man the Z axis servo is a hunk of metal. Sheesh. I'll get some photos later when I have some time.

Before I went off for vacation I hooked up the VFD and was doing some messing around, almost machined something for the heck of it and didn't. Why? Well, my drawbar won't thread into anything I have straight. It will thread if the bar is out of the mill, but since it can't go in straight, I can't secure anything into the spindle. Neat. I sent an email to Matt and he is sending a new one. 

So far, I haven't found much on the machine to complain about, though granted I haven't used it at all. The exceptions are:

1. The head leaks oil like a sieve. It's coming out of the spindle (around the quill actually), the quill is absolutely covered with it every time it goes up and down. And it's black, nasty stuff. (this was before even running it) It's also coming out of where the gear change knobs are pretty heavily. I was going to clean the head all out anyhow when I change the oil. Not entirely looking forward to that and hadn't planned on changing the seals along with it. It's gone from 3/4 full to 2/3 since I received it.

2. The drawbar, which I mentioned. On that note, I have never in my life seen more poorly made socket head cap screws. Many of them the head is actually off center. I'm just replacing them when I find them. Pretty weird though. Can't even get a screw right? Yikes.


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## jbolt (Aug 9, 2016)

Bummer on draw bar and oil leaks. Almost sounds like they forgot some seals or damaged them during assembly.

My 932 leaked out of the spindle (slow drip) . That turned out to be the seal at the top of the spindle. There was manufacturing grit between the seal and spindle and with use it machined a shallow groove. I did not tear down and clean the mill when I got it since I knew it would be coming apart for the conversion. Not an issue now with the belt drive conversion.


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## mrbasher (Aug 9, 2016)

I'm not overly concerned about it. But, of course I'd like to fix it if I can. A rubber seal against something, even something that slides shouldn't leak much at all if it's sealing. Under use, I'd understand, due to temp changes in the oil, etc. It's fine, it'll all get worked out in the end. Mostly I'm posting things like that for the sake of thoroughness. I'm keeping a log of everything and may post it in the end. There is a lot of info on the net about these types of mills and yet, it seems like you never quite get the whole story... or, it's a complete horror story... Which this is certainly not thus far.


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## mrbasher (Aug 9, 2016)

I should note as well... Can't believe I haven't mentioned this. Matt has always been easy to reach. I've read that he's hard to get in touch with, etc. I have not experienced that at all. If he's out, I call back a little later the same day and talk to him. Through email, he always responds the same day. He's been very helpful. Just wanted to mention that.


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## mrbasher (Aug 10, 2016)

Here is why I'd like to clean out the head and replace the seals before I even run the thing for more than 30 seconds... The stuff on my finger is what wipes off the quill.


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## TomS (Aug 10, 2016)

mrbasher said:


> Here is why I'd like to clean out the head and replace the seals before I even run the thing for more than 30 seconds... The stuff on my finger is what wipes off the quill.
> 
> View attachment 133696
> View attachment 133697



Looks like metal.  Am I correct?  If I am my first order of business would be to strip down your machine and give it a good cleaning.

Tom S.


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## mrbasher (Aug 10, 2016)

Yep. Looks exactly like an engine that's seen better days. At least the oil from one. Wiping it on a piece of paper leaves exactly what you'd imagine... lots of residoodoo.  The machine is actually clean now, except the head. What you see on the table behind the shot of my finger is the leakage from the head. I'd imagine it won't take that long to go through and I'll be glad I did.


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## Greebles (Aug 11, 2016)

Sounds like the oil seals on the head are leaking or missing. The seals are located around the shafts of the speed change knobs. Remove the front panel on the head a take a look.


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## Subwayrocket (Aug 19, 2016)

Mine does the same thing. I've been wiping it down when I'm done working and before using it again. Right around the quill, just like yours.  And my motor starts hard in high range. Wish it had soft start !


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## mrbasher (Aug 19, 2016)

I'm just a little "frightened" by the color of it. I plan on replacing the bearings and switching to a belt drive at some point, but I don't plan on doing it anytime soon. I'd hate to fry the thing before I'm ready.  I've had hardly any time to work on the mill the past two weeks. I've been trying to finish up my shop/office. I sheetrocked it and put the flooring in, just had the final electrical inspection. So I guess it's time to start using it...  I will say, I'm glad doing sheetrock or flooring aren't my day jobs! That's hard work.

On another note, my new drawbar showed up quickly after I let Matt know the original was messed up. The new one is much better. Not perfect, but it works.

As for the motor, I'm lucky enough to have the 3 phase and a VFD on mine. It's smooth as silk, I can even set how quick it spins up. I was going to suggest a soft start for the motor but they aren't cheap... (around $100) Here's what I'm talking about: http://www.alliedelec.com/schneider-electric-atsu01n206lt/70007394/  Least you can mount it right in the panel on the back.


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## Subwayrocket (Aug 19, 2016)

MR Basher , I spoke to Matt about that dark oil on the quill. He says that oil is independent of the oil in the head gear box , just wipe it off before and after. I just did my first oil change of the gear head, the oil came oil like new. So I'm pretty sure the dark stuff coming down the quill may be cosmoline up inside that I couldn't get at during my initial cleaning of the mill.  .          As for the drawbar, I had the exact same problem. I put an indicator on it and it was slightly out of straight...would go in tooling outside the mill no prob but not work in the mill. He sent me a new one and I works fine.                          Thanks for the soft start and VFD info. I'm gona look at that tomorrow when I get home. Looks like it's only about a $500 upgrade which is not bad. It sounds a little complicated to wire it in so it still uses the existing controls on the mill....and no clear cut directions exist. Anyway, thanks for that info and link


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## qualitymachinetools (Aug 20, 2016)

Hey guys, yes, the quill does not get oil from the gearbox, (Unless it seeps a bit, which is pretty common on these) so nothing to worry about there. Its just going up and down in its bore, and its probably just dirty in there. Nothing at all to worry about, the head is sealed off from that. No oil on the spindle bearings, they are greased.


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