# So, I bought a BP..



## ttabbal (Apr 27, 2018)

I still need to move it. I'm planning to use a drop bed trailer and come-a-longs to pull it onto the trailer to transport it home, only about 20 miles. Perhaps removing the turret to make things a bit lighter. I have a couple engine hoists available to assist with that. Perhaps a couple pallets and a pallet jack to load? I'd like to have supplies for a couple options in case one doesn't seem like a good idea while we're loading. Very carefully of course. 

It has some surface rust and dirt from sitting in a garage for 10 years or so, nothing I can't clean easily. Bed and ways look good and everything moves well. Looks to be a 60s J-head with step pulleys and side door. Paint is pretty clean, but I might well strip it down for a full paint job. Still considering. 

It comes with a static phase converter, but I'll likely end up replacing it with a VFD. 

One thing I know is wrong is that the PO used a grease gun on it, so I know I have to pull the table and clean everything out. Does anyone have a good kit or list of parts I would need to install a one-shot oilier on it? If I have to take it down, might as well replace tubing, fittings, etc. while I'm in there. And perhaps an oil can that will connect to a zerk fitting? I could build something too.. 

I'm reading through old posts here and doing some searching to learn more about maintaining these machines properly so I can get this thing running well. Is the Vactra 2 I use on my lathe good for the ways on this machine? Any other lubricants I need to get hold of?


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## mikey (Apr 27, 2018)

Congrats on the new mill! I vote for a tear down to clean and lube everything. An electrolytic bath will handle the rust.


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## Silverbullet (Apr 27, 2018)

A good rooster bar and 1" x 36" black iron pipe x 4 and your cumalong will do . Rotate the head 90degrees and a board on the table raise it to the head with board between . Then it'll travel great with with a few good ratchet straps , a cross frame of 2 x 4s nailed or screwed will remove any tipping worry. Strap it a cross the machine to widen its stance. It works.
Ps a rooster bar is a crow bar lol , a Johnson would be super , I want one of those badly .


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## ttabbal (Apr 27, 2018)

When you mention strapping a frame of 2x4 on it, are you talking about across the base plate on top of it? 

I was also considering running straps from the machine to the trailer in 4 directions, then tightening to provide holding in all directions in addition to the hold down force. Perhaps using the hole in the back of the ram as a holding point with some good strong hardware. 

I've never looked for a prybar that big... Where does one find them? Just at the local hardware stores or do I need to look for a specialty place?


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## mikey (Apr 27, 2018)

Johnson bar: https://www.amazon.com/Vestil-PLB-S...8&qid=1524855409&sr=1-1&keywords=prylever+bar


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## ttabbal (Apr 27, 2018)

mikey said:


> Johnson bar: https://www.amazon.com/Vestil-PLB-S...8&qid=1524855409&sr=1-1&keywords=prylever+bar


That looks great. I don't suppose anyone knows a local place I might find one at? This is happening tomorrow, can't wait for shipping.


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## Doubleeboy (Apr 27, 2018)

You can rent them at a lot of rental places.


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## chips&more (Apr 27, 2018)

Depending on how dirty the BP is? On the way home, you might want to stop at a spray car wash and give it a bath…Dave


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## Cadillac (Apr 27, 2018)

A good way to jack it up is from the rear. On the main ram in the rear is a flat spot for mounting the shaper attachment. Bring a jack and a 4x4. Jack the rear using the 4x4 to span the distance. Jack it up enough to roll some round bars. Roll one almost center then teeter the machine to the rear put some round stock in front and start rolling. The machine will pivot easily on the pipe too. I used a flatbed tow truck. 50 bucks they winched it up on the bed rolling on pipe. Rolled it back off with winch to the inside of garage and rolled right in place. I had a Johnson bar which is very helpful but not needed. You can also buy a square bar that's about six feet long that has a wedge forged on one end called a pinch point bar at your local menards or Home Depot landscape dept.  It's a very stout bar used to lever big landscape rock and such like twenty bucks. Make sure you lock all axis before the drive. I would put a garbage bag over motor and spindle to keep road dirt from getting in. I've heard of people moving a lathe to get home to notice the tailstock was missing. Back tracking their route and not finding it either! Straps straps and straps for the straps.


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## ttabbal (Apr 27, 2018)

Thanks for the tips. It's not dirty enough to do the car wash thing, just the dirt you get from sitting in a garage for years and having oil/grease on things to hold that dirt nice and tight. A little degreaser will clean it up without too much issue. I like the idea of covering the motor etc to prevent road junk from getting into it. And yes, there will be strap overkill. I don't want anything moving without taking the trailer and truck with it!


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## Z2V (Apr 28, 2018)

Congrats on the new mill. Sounds like a good find. 
Don’t forget we want to see it too!


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## ttabbal (Apr 28, 2018)

I will add pics to the thread. I just need to get it moved. I think I have everything arranged, so I'm expecting to need to go to the store at least twice. 

I also discovered that my bandsaw pulleys for the motor and worm gear are really wobbly. Guess I need to figure out what's going on there. It is second hand Harbor Freight, so it happens...


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## Z2V (Apr 28, 2018)

I know your excited about getting a new tool, just don’t get in a hurry while moving it. Work SAFE!!
Also, take several small pieces of wood of different thicknesses to use if you have to block it up to get rollers under it. 
1/2” plywood, 1x?, 2x4, etc


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## ttabbal (Apr 28, 2018)

Thanks for the reminder. Slow and safe is the only way to move something like this. Can't use tools if you are recovering from injuries after all.


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## Z2V (Apr 28, 2018)

When are you planning to make the move?


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## ttabbal (Apr 28, 2018)

Z2V said:


> When are you planning to make the move?



Today. I have most of the stuff loaded up and am picking up the rest soon along with the trailer.


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## ttabbal (Apr 29, 2018)

I haven't unloaded yet, or gotten pics. It came with some extras. A small set of collets, the ones I inspected have a Bridgeport logo on them. An adapter, looks like MT2. A clamping kit. And a good size vise 6" I think, made in Japan, labeled "KKK" of all things. It's got a bit of surface rust, so condition is unknown at the moment. The machine itself has visible scraping on the ways in a couple areas I cleaned up. 

I think I'm going to order some fresh belts and do some cleaning and such.


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## ttabbal (Apr 29, 2018)

A couple pics. The machine made it to my garage. Now I have to get it cleaned, lubed, and assembled.  

The adapter is R8-MT3, which is handy as it means that I can use my nice Glacern drill chuck with it. 

The missing knobs etc are there, we removed a few when it looked like they might be smashed. 

The vise moves very smoothly. I didn't move it much as there's a good layer of crud on the surfaces. But it's not rusted into a single piece, so there's hope for it.


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## Z2V (Apr 29, 2018)

I think you will have a jewel there after you get her cleaned  and set up. Congrats


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## ttabbal (Apr 30, 2018)

Looking inside the belt windows, there is a lot of crud in there. In addition, the belts are around 10 years old, so I will replace them while I'm in there. Everything feels smooth, should I tear it down further? Any other parts I should look at replacing or inspecting in the head? 

The motor looks good, not that it means much. I figure I'll remove it, clean and inspect for bearing issues etc.. Then use my VFD to fire it up for some short tests to make sure it's running well and quietly. 

Pulleys look ok from the outside, but if I'm opening it up, might as well check them closely. 

Any reason to get into the spindle and back gears at this point? 

I also see that the power feed direction knob is broken off. Sounds like a pretty common part to break. Same with the missing fine feed handwheel. I'm not too worried about them right now. It looks like they aren't too bad to work on with the machine assembled.


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## Z2V (Apr 30, 2018)

I would clean it up then power it up and see how it runs.  Heck, if the motor is not making noise why take it apart right up front. Run it and find any deficiencies it might have then fix them.


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## ttabbal (Apr 30, 2018)

Z2V said:


> I would clean it up then power it up and see how it runs.  Heck, if the motor is not making noise why take it apart right up front. Run it and find any deficiencies it might have then fix them.



Certainly not unreasonable. The biggest reason for removing the motor was that I need to for cleaning inside the pulley housing and replacing the belts. I wasn't planning on disassembling the motor further unless it made lots of noise, excessive vibration, or has a lot of shaft play. 

I asked about the rest of the head just in case there is a common issue that is easily addressed while it's separated like this. 

Reminds me, there were a lot of chips up in the turret gears that control the head movement up and down. Overall it was pretty clean in there otherwise. Is that something I should consider cleaning more than vacuuming the looser chips out? I think the ride home knocked most of them out. Sure, I could disassemble it and really clean it out, but I don't want to make a bunch of work that doesn't accomplish anything.


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## Z2V (Apr 30, 2018)

ttabbal said:


> The motor looks good, not that it means much. I figure I'll remove it, clean and inspect for bearing issues etc.. Then use my VFD to fire it up for some short tests to make sure it's running well and quietly.


My apologies, I misread your post, or should I say I didn’t completely comprehend what I read. Trying to concentrate on more than one thing at a time at this time of night is not in my best interest.


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## BROCKWOOD (Apr 30, 2018)

Any & all success I've had has been in letting the mechanism / machine / circuit say what is wrong. Simply address the problems as they occur.


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## markba633csi (Apr 30, 2018)

I favor just a simple cleanup and start running it.  If you begin taking it apart you'll be down the rabbit hole LOL
Mark


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## Liljoebrshooter (Apr 30, 2018)

I would run it like it sits and see how things sound.
You don't wanna mess with the spindle bearings unless absoulatey necessary.  They can be VERY  expensive.   I am in the process of rebuilding my Gorton mill right now. 
Make sure the oiling system is working if it has one. 
Joe Hynes


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## ttabbal (Apr 30, 2018)

Yeah, I already had to talk myself out of stripping it down for a full rebuild. I am going to use it, not look at it. The paint only needs to be good enough to prevent rust. I think I'll try to power it up and get a feel for the condition of the motor and spindle bearings. I suspect a belt will break under much load, but that's a maintenance part. 

There's no oiling system, just places to put oil. How can I verify they get oil where it needs to be? There's an oil cup up top for the spindle. I don't have the proper oil for it yet, but I will order some. The spindle does have a good amount of oil on it, so I suspect it is fine. The zerks have been greased, but I will pull them and clean them out so I can use way oil.


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## ttabbal (Apr 30, 2018)

There might be a mill table under there after all...


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## Cadillac (Apr 30, 2018)

Looks like a nice buy! It might not be a bad idea to slide the table off and saddle to give everything a nice cleaning. While in there note what can be change or not. At least then you can clean all the ports of grease from the yahoo that put grease in there instead of way oil. A great place is H&W machine in Indiana to get parts for your machine. They have everything a good people to do business with. 
 Then at least you know what your dealing with and your oil ports will work correctly. It’s a easy job.


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## ttabbal (Apr 30, 2018)

The more I read about it, the more I think I need to pull the table and clean all the grease out. There isn't a lot of info about removing the table from searching around earlier, but I did find a couple videos and some parts diagrams that make it look simple enough as long as you account for the weight. 

Is it decently balanced or do I need to account for it being heavy on one side or the other?


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## Cadillac (Apr 30, 2018)

With the head off I don’t know but with it on it’s not a problem. Remove gibb take screws than hold lead screw Assy to saddle out slide table whichever way you like. 
Maybe do everything but the knee. You can remove gibb on knee and allow it to tilt so you can pump way oil through till clear and clean. 
 Luckily mine came with a bijur Oiler workin no so I just had to add.


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## Technical Ted (Apr 30, 2018)

I picked up a 1971 2J Bridgeport a few months ago. The mill uses zerts for the ways and the previous owner used grease on it (glad he didn't use it very much!). I took the table, saddle and knee off for cleaning and I'm very glad I did. The grease did not clean out easily and I'm sure way oil would have never gotten through some of the passages. Some passages have multiple routes and the oil would have just taken the easiest route and never made it to all the ways.

I also tore the head down and went through that. There's a lot more to go wrong in a 2J than yours, but the good news for you is that you can do the job a lot quicker with a lot less work. I didn't take the spindle out (no need to since nice clean oil was coming out the bottom and everything was nice and tight/smooth), but I cleaned everything, re-packed the bull gear and pinion gear with new grease, etc..  From what I found (dirt, chips, crud, etc.) inside of mine I know I did the right thing. Now I know everything is clean and getting the proper lubrication.

Also, this is a hobby for me and I enjoy working on my new toys! 

Ted


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## ttabbal (Apr 30, 2018)

I took a good look at the belt housing and there is a LOT of caked on crud in there. Scrape it off with a putty knife level. So I'm going to clean at least that much out. I'm going to connect a VFD and test the motor and such to check for other issues in the head. 

I think the spindle is fine, it's got a nice coating of fresh oil on it. I have an oiler, belts, and oil on the way. 

The table is cleaning up nicely. I'll remove it and check out the oil passages. That will determine if the knee comes off. My luck, it will. But it is a hobby and I do enjoy working on the machine. And I'll be really upset with myself if I cut corners now and damage it due to poor lubrication. The trick is to avoid taking things apart that don't need it.


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## ttabbal (May 1, 2018)

I was reading some info about rust removal on the exposed table and similar surfaces. They mentioned that it likes to flash rust when cleaned off. What are good ways to prevent that? Right now, the WD40 will help, but we all know that stuff isn't really the best option. I was thinking of a thin coat of way oil. I also saw a video where they used white lithium grease and spread it thinly. 

It's not going to win any beauty contests, but I would like to keep the surfaces as rust free as possible without having to spray it down daily.  

I think I have everything needed to do motor tests, so tonight I hope to run the main motor and the power feed motor to check for issues before I take anything else apart. Then I'll have a better idea how much work the motorized parts need.


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## Technical Ted (May 1, 2018)

I wipe my machines down after each use. Typically, there is way oil, spindle oil and my general purpose oil dripping off things as I go so that is what gets used. The rag gets oil on it from the wiping, so everything I wipe gets some kind of oil on it.... The oil just gets moved around! I really don't think it matters what you use, but I don't think I would personally use grease.

I don't like WD40 for a penetrating oil but I do like it as a general cleaner. I bought a gallon can and put it into a spray bottle. The first thing I do when bringing a dirty machine/tool/accessory home to add to my collection is spray whatever I'm going to start working on with it. It loosens up the first layer of crud pretty well and will help knock off the rust and keep it from rusting worse. It also work very well in combination with ScotchBrite for polishing. A coat of WD40 would work for keeping something from flash rusting IMO.

Ted


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## bobdog (May 1, 2018)

I use OILEATER best stuff I ever used to get rid of crud and wont hurt paint as all as you wipe with water after....http://oileater.com/  Not as calustic as purple power or other things.... And you dont need breathing mask to clean. Looked for and tryed alot of things before I found it....


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## ttabbal (May 2, 2018)

Well, the motors are good. I fired them up with a VFD and they both run nice and quiet. The head has a slight rattle when back gear is disengaged. That seems pretty common with these. The power feed works and all the gears seem to move the table around. The highest gear stalls a bit, but cleaning and lubrication should help that. 

The switch on the power feed motor is only breaking 2 of the lines. So one is always hot. I think I'm going to dedicate a small VFD to it and lose the switch. That way I can control it independently as needed.


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## Liljoebrshooter (May 2, 2018)

This is what I found on my Gorton when I  started pulling it apart.


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## ttabbal (May 2, 2018)

Liljoebrshooter said:


> This is what I found on my Gorton when I  started pulling it apart.



Wow. That's some chips. Hopefully I'm not that full of them. So far there isn't a ton, but never know what might be hiding.


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## ttabbal (May 6, 2018)

So. Much. Grease. I think I scraped a couple pounds of the stuff off with paper towels. Used pipe cleaners and brake cleaner to purge the passages. Put a solid coat of way oil on and reinstalled the knee. I think I'm going to replace the zerks rather than try to get the grease out of them. A couple were rounded off anyway and I had to use vise grips to get them off. 

Used purple power and evaporust to clean up the smaller parts. They came out great. I'll get some pics. The handles and such look new. 

It sounds like it might be worth the effort to split the nuts.


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## ttabbal (May 6, 2018)




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## Janderso (May 8, 2018)

I think you have a fine BP. It sure is pretty compared to mine. Regarding the table removal. They are heavy!!, if you can imagine a table of the same height as the bottom of the table, you just slide it over on top of the make shift table.
I was thinking of making a frame of metal, weld it up square and rest it on a set of HB 4 wheel dolly's.
Just an idea, there will be better plans to follow.


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## Janderso (May 8, 2018)

Whoa, who scraped it? Don't tell me you had grease in there with that finish!


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## Cadillac (May 8, 2018)

A easy way to remove and carry table is a tool cart that can handle the weight. Put cart next to table area. Use knee height adjust to get the table just high of cart. Slide table on cart and roll away. No need for lifting.


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## ttabbal (May 8, 2018)

Janderso said:


> Whoa, who scraped it? Don't tell me you had grease in there with that finish!



The guy I bought it from said it had been worked on. And yes, so much grease. I think he learned in the 40s and that's what they did then. So when he got it, he filled it with grease. And then it sat for 10+ years. I honestly think he didn't use it much after the work was done on it, so the grease didn't cause problems. I'm still working on it, got the knee lift parts installed, and the saddle with the new wipers all soaked with way oil. I'm going to pick up new zerks and some copper tube to make a oil fitting for the feed nuts. The rebuilding book mentions it and it seems much easier to get oil where it needs to be than to try to line up the table with the vise in the way to drip oil through the table. The passage that feeds the lower nut was also packed with grease... No idea how it got in there. Perhaps greasing the feed screw pushed it in there? Need to get those cleaned and oiled as well. 

I used the engine hoist to remove the table with bolts in the T-slots. Thinking about it, perhaps not the best plan. I still need to clean it though. I think I'll make a wood box, line it with plastic and soak it like I did the other parts. That worked well and the custom box should keep the amount of solution reasonable.


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## ttabbal (May 15, 2018)

A couple progress pics... Vise cleaned, oiled, and assembled. 




Turned a fitting for the feed nuts to make oiling easier once I add some copper tube etc.. It will be press fit once I solder the copper tube on, then I will probably need to grind it down a bit for clearance with the table. 




Close to getting the bottom end back together. Also split the nuts and faced them on the lathe. The table is soaking but starting to look like a mill table.


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## ttabbal (May 17, 2018)

Ok... Table cleaned up better than I have any right to ask for... 




Backlash is about 0.007" on X and Y. Everything moves smooth and tight. I think I might tighten the Y gib a little, but I am going to wait and see how it feels with the vise on the table. 

Now to clean up the power feed and get it back on there.


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## Janderso (May 17, 2018)

Very nice, I’m jealous


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## ttabbal (May 21, 2018)

Bottom end is back together and working great. Adjusted the gibs and such to get nice smooth travel over the whole range. The power feed is reinstalled and working well. 

Cleaned up the belt housing, what a mess. About 1/8" of mixed crud in there. Scraped it off, then scrubbed with wire brushes, steel wool, and scotchbrites to clean it out. It felt like a mix of grease, oil, random garage dirt, and some material from the brake. The parts are silver again! 

I did run into a set screw with a stripped socket head. It's #10 "1254 - Socket Set Screw" on this diagram. 

http://www.machinerypartsdepot.com/store/1478157/page/552090

I would order it from them, but the shipping would kill it and I don't really need anything else at the moment. It also didn't seem to "set" anything really as removing the screw it was holding wasn't any harder than removing the one I was able to remove the set screw for. I can likely remove it and replace it. But is it worth the bother? They are used to hold the "Cam Ring Pin" in place, or are supposed to anyway. If you happen to know the thread spec, that would be helpful info as well. My guess is it's a #2, but I neglected to mic it.


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## Technical Ted (May 21, 2018)

I don't know for sure, but it might very well be a standard size you can get at your local hardware store. Mike up the OD and either use a thread pitch gauge or count the threads per inch on a scale. That's what I would do anyways...

Good luck,
Ted


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## ttabbal (May 21, 2018)

Thanks. Just in case someone else ends up looking for them, they are 6-32 1/4" long. I need to not guess thread sizes, I always pick low.


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## ttabbal (May 26, 2018)

Well, it's back together. I spent some time tramming it up and installed and indicated the vise. Everything is +/-0.0002. Drove myself a little nuts with the tenths indicator. Probably not needed, but it was partly practice. 




And, of course I had to make first chips. Just a simple squaring cut with a 3/4 roughing and a 3/4 4 flute. I discovered that I lack a collet that can hold a 3/8 shank, so I can't use my smaller end mills. Even at 40 thou DOC the rougher barely made any noise.


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## Z2V (May 26, 2018)

Looks good. So, what’s next, VFD or DRO?


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## ttabbal (May 26, 2018)

I have a pair of VFDs, the power feed is the old style with a 3 phase motor and a gearbox. I figure if I have to reverse the spindle using the back gear, I don't want to reverse the power feed. 

I haven't decided on mounting them. I am leaning towards removing the fuse box on the back of the column and mounting them back there on a plate. Then using remote mounted controls where the drum switch used to live. 

DRO is definitely at the top of the list.


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## Z2V (May 26, 2018)

My mill already had the DRO when I bought it. I wouldn’t know how to act without it.


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## ttabbal (May 27, 2018)

I decided to take apart the auto quill feed bits to soak in evaporust and fix whatever is wrong with it. Getting the reverse trip ball lever out is a pain. I made a 5-40 screw out of 12L14 and it threads but that doesn't want to come out. Any ideas for removing it? I was pulling hard enough that I was concerned about breaking the homemade screw. 

5-40 sucks to thread...


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## Technical Ted (May 27, 2018)

My suggestion would be to wiggle the feed reverse trip plunger and/or the quill stop screw up and down while pulling on it and see if that helps. I would also spray in some good penetrating oil and let that work on any crud that might be in there. It should come out as long as the trip plunger isn't hanging it up... 

Good luck,
Ted


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## ttabbal (May 28, 2018)

And the power quill feed parts cleaned up, lubricated and reassembled. Mostly. My machine is missing the parts inside the fine feed. The spring, ball, and a key I'm trying to identify. And the direction selector, but I did get the broken off screw out. 

The mechanism works locks in and trips when pushing the screw down. So I think if I get those missing parts I should be good to go.


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## ttabbal (Jun 6, 2018)

Got the parts in (they spent some time in Arizona for some reason) and the quill feed works great! I also got one of those clamp-on stops so I don't have to spin that micrometer nut as much for times I don't mind a loss in precision. I tested both up and down, the stop system trips easily. I'm quite surprised how nice the old parts look after a soak in purple power then evaporust. 

The lower hole for the scale is stripped out (boooo!!!), but I sprung for a new scale which looks nice on there. I might tap it and use a larger screw, haven't decided yet. I'm also considering using one of the little quill DROs. It should go nice with the 3 axis I just ordered using the ebay 20% off coupon.  

I really need to get the conduit run so I can get the electrical in the garage fixed up and move things to where they need to be.


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## ttabbal (Jun 22, 2018)

After much swearing and a project installing new circuits in conduit, and moving the mill to its new spot... 




Got the controls put together, wired and configured on the VFDs. Direction and speed control for the spindle, just on off for the power feed. The emergency stop stops both VFDs. The spindle start/stop works just under 2 seconds, so power tapping might be possible. 

And the tormach ring light fits nicely. 

Just need to adjust the leveling feet.


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## TerryH (Jun 22, 2018)

Super nice setup!! Color me jealous.


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## ttabbal (Jun 22, 2018)

TerryH said:


> Super nice setup!! Color me jealous.



Thanks! The paint job isn't as nice as yours, but I am pretty happy with how it turned out.


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