# Need to grind my HSS tools... which grinder?



## The_Apprentice (Jul 9, 2017)

So, already have my first piece of HSS for my mini-lathe, and would like to dive into things. Only problem is I need a grinder to shape them.

Since I'm just a home-hobbyist, I'm wondering what suggestions I have that are decent for a non-industrial budget here and won't break the bank.

I am debating on driving down to the local Lowes and picking up this:

https://www.lowes.ca/grinders/king-...c-690l_g1589496.html?searchTerm=bench-grinder

Opinions?

Thanks in advance.


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## f350ca (Jul 9, 2017)

That grinder should be fine. It won't be very powerful but if its just for grinding tool bits you'll have no problems. The wheels might be little more than concrete though. Try them, you may want to replace them with quality ones, makes a HUGE difference.

Greg


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## The_Apprentice (Jul 9, 2017)

Thanks Greg. I may just end up grabbing this then tomorrow. Wasn't sure if I was missing something obvious, but since King also sells mini-lathes, I'm sure it can't be too bad.

I think Lowes has the arbor size wrong at 0.5", as the manufacture clearly stats theirs is 5/8"

Something else interesting, is Lowes is selling this at about half the price as getting this directly from the manufacturer. Hmmm......

And yes, I have hard that the wheels on these things are usually cheap... at least they give both a 60 grit and a 120 though.

After that, my next task will be to purchase a decent polisher/buffer for my little jewelry projects I plan to experiment with.


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## mikey (Jul 9, 2017)

Have you checked Kijiji in your area? There is a 3/4HP Powerfist 8" grinder in Hamilton, brand new in the box, for $90.00. 8" wheels will be easier to find, are wider and sometimes cheaper than 6" wheels. 

If I was a new guy today and I decided I was going to use a bench grinder for tool grinding, I would consider it a long-term investment that I could use to grind tools for any lathe I end up with. I would choose an 8" grinder with at least 1HP and I would use CBN wheels that are intended to grind HSS and won't explode or need dressing. This is the sort of thing I'm talking about: https://woodturnerswonders.com/coll...with-one-radius-edge-and-one-4-in-1-cbn-wheel

Yeah, considerably more than the average grinder but you'll be grinding on those same wheels 20 years from now. I know you don't realize it yet but your lathe tools will determine how well your lathe works for you. You may have chosen a small lathe but it can cut like a much larger one with the right tool. Thing is, you have to grind it and that starts with a good grinder. 

Of course, I don't know where you're at with this machining thing and you may just want to dabble with tool grinding. If that is so, then consider that larger grinder I suggested. A more powerful grinder will cut faster and easier and you won't have to push the tool or wheel as hard to get results.


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## aliva (Jul 9, 2017)

I agree with mikey get at least 1 hp with 8" wheels you'll have it forever . You won't regret the extra hp and cost especially when buffing.
I bought a a small grinder from Princess Auto 6" put a buffer on it and it stalled immediately it's a piece of junk I then put a diamond wheel on for sharpening carbide which works fine.


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## Ken from ontario (Jul 9, 2017)

I have that King grinder in your first post, it will do the job of grinding cutting tools but don't expect quality from that machine, the motor is way out of balance and vibrates a lot ,the tool rests are flimsy and loses adjustment as soon as you put pressure on them, the plastic shields are held with  cheap clamps and keep falling off , but in that price range  all these grinders (power fist , King, Mastercraft, Ryobi) will most likely perform the same.
I highly recommend a Diamond dresser for  grinding wheels, it is a must IMO.http://www.busybeetools.com/products/diamond-dresser-with-handle.html
If I had to buy a grinder today, I would look for the older ones with solid cast iron tool rests and silky smooth motors, I see them often on kijiji for under $70. and of course 8" is better than 6" but more expensive, although for our home use , 6" will do.


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## woodtickgreg (Jul 9, 2017)

Personally I wouldn't touch that grinder, it's just a cheap piece of chinese crap. I have made enough mistakes making purchases like that and then not being happy with how they worked, or actually didn't. Take your time on this purchase, do your homework, and shop around for a better quality used one.


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## mikey (Jul 10, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> Personally I wouldn't touch that grinder, it's just a cheap piece of chinese crap. I have made enough mistakes making purchases like that and then not being happy with how they worked, or actually didn't. Take your time on this purchase, do your homework, and shop around for a better quality used one.



Greg, I once ground a lathe tool on one of those old monster 12" Baldor pedestal grinders, the kind that takes an engine hoist to lift. It was owned by an old machinist who has since passed on but it literally ate the steel on that bit. I gained a healthy appreciation for horsepower from that experience and you're right - homework pays.


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## woodtickgreg (Jul 10, 2017)

mikey said:


> Greg, I once ground a lathe tool on one of those old monster 12" Baldor pedestal grinders, the kind that takes an engine hoist to lift. It was owned by an old machinist who has since passed on but it literally ate the steel on that bit. I gained a healthy appreciation for horsepower from that experience and you're right - homework pays.


I'm not saying get the biggest and the baddest, lol,  just get a good quality tool. One that is solid, spools up quickly, runs true with little or no vibration, has torque in reserve, good tool rest, etc.


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## cascao (Jul 10, 2017)

Makita GB 602 come ready with white stone for HSS and green stone for carbide.
It is much more silent than others around and there enought power to grind lathe tools


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## Hozzie (Jul 10, 2017)

I have also been looking at buying a good grinder with a good support plate, but haven't found one that jumps out.   I have a 6" delta with variable speed, but was looking to go to an 8".   It also got me thinking about using a belt sander instead.

Anyone use a belt sander instead of grinder for HSS?  I even think a combo machine would be nice to have.


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## The_Apprentice (Jul 10, 2017)

Hozzie, my father used to keep a belt to be used for HSS. It also had a vacuum unit to try and catch all the dust, but it didn't exactly work perfectly.

I went to Lowes today, and the only comparable version with what I wanted was one by Ryobi. But the Ryobi, despite similar in price around here, has no lamp, much less Amperage, and some other issue that I can not remember now.

I'm still debating on getting an 8" over the 6", but I do like to keep things very portable. The 8" stuff is so much more heavier, which I know is sort of nice, but not so nice for people like me. 

The Delta's I saw are much more pricy, but they have variable speed control, which seems interesting to me. 

I was wondering if I could just change 6" and 8" wheels to something else for buffering work. As I'd like to buffer 8mm to 15mm jewelry items after cutting. But to be honest, with all the buffering and grinding I will be doing, I will probably just end up needing a whole new other unit anyhow, so I guess trying to go for a 2-in-1 unit is not really going to help me any.


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## Hozzie (Jul 10, 2017)

I have a buffing wheel on my 6" and a white stone grinding wheel on the other side.   I did a brief search and I think I am going to go get one of the harbor freight 1x30 belt sanders and set it up for cutting HSS blanks.  There are a lot of video's out there on mods for them and they are cheap.  Worth a try for $50.  

There must be something similar in Canada.


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## Ken from ontario (Jul 10, 2017)

better quality propoint 6" with HD tool rests ($170) with variable speed and tach:


Here's  a powerfist ? 8" c/w light, belt sander($100)



they also have an 8" with 3/4 hp motor for the same price, or

https://www.princessauto.com/en/search?Dy=1&Nty=1&Ntt=bench+grinder
or Dewalt (Atlas has the lowest price) :
http://www.atlas-machinery.com/6-bench-grinder-dewalt/
http://www.atlas-machinery.com/8-bench-grinder-dewalt/


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## f350ca (Jul 10, 2017)

Variable speed might be required for polishing but grinding wheels work best at their rated speed. Slow them down and they act as a softer wheel and crumble. 
The white aluminum oxide wheels are a must for high carbon wood working tools such as chisels and plate irons but not necessary for HSS which isn't affected by the heat of grinding. 
I bought an 8 inch Princess Auto grinder some years back when it was on sale. It was pathetic, took 10 to 15 seconds to come up to speed and had no power. I bought it for rough grinding mild steel, cleaning up torch cuts, fitting and chamfering. It was useless for that where you need power. I stuck a wire wheel on it making it somewhat usable. It finally died, wouldn't start unless you spun the shaft. I pulled the capacitor and had it checked at the motor shop, twas dead, a new one helped it, spun up faster but still very little power but now it spins a green silicon carbide wheel for carbide. It still has no power but is more than adequate for grinding tools.

Greg


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## The_Apprentice (Jul 11, 2017)

Well now! That belt-grinder hybrid is interesting.... Though I have to ask, where is the advantage (if any) of belt over grind-wheel? I also assume it needs much more replacing than a wheel.

About Power-Fist, and power... I do remember one of the first Mini-Lathes I looked at in Canada was the Power-Fist sold at Princess Auto (not sure if they still sell them). The problem, is they were only rated for 1/3 Horse-Power....  They were cheaper I believe, but i'd rather get a CX from Busy Bee and not worry so much of my work stalling constantly.

I read in one of the machinist books here, that the secondary most used purpose of a drill-press, is buffing. Hmmmm.....

I guess that COULD end up being my next 2-in-1 unit... will do more research on this.


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## mikey (Jul 11, 2017)

The_Apprentice said:


> Well now! That belt-grinder hybrid is interesting.... Though I have to ask, where is the advantage (if any) of belt over grind-wheel? I also assume it needs much more replacing than a wheel.



With the right grit, a belt sander will grind a HSS tool bit faster, cooler and with fewer facets. The belt may snap but it won't explode or need dressing. Belt changes normally take seconds to do so you can step up in grits quickly. 

I would avoid the 1" belt sanders. The belt is too narrow and the platens on most of them attach to the machine on only one end so they bend under pressure. A 2" belt is much better. You want a machine that takes common belt sizes so you can get them at lower cost. 2X42, 2X48, 2X72 are common sizes. 

You also want at least 1/2HP or more. Go less than that and you will bog the motor down or even stop it when you grind a tool. 

Almost any belt sander will allow you to grind almost all the tool angles on a turning tool. However, in order to grind back rake you need unimpeded access to the right side of the belt. If there is a frame or any other obstruction then that grinder will not work. In addition, you need a replaceable platen, not one that is integral to the machine. The reason is so you can put a ceramic glass platen liner on a piece of steel and swap it in place of a stamped steel platen. Trust me; you want a glass liner (Pyroceram).  You also need to fabricate a good tool rest that will adjust to any angle you need, and it should be made of steel to prevent snagging or grabbing of the tool on the rest. 

Do some homework on how HSS lathe tools are ground, then sort out what will work for you. Personally, I only use a belt sander for this.


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## The_Apprentice (Jul 11, 2017)

mikey said:


> You also want at least 1/2HP or more.



Well, so much for the Power FIST. Same issue as their mini-lathe, only 1/3 HP.


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## Silverbullet (Jul 11, 2017)

Do Ck the used tool adds , there are many great machines sold at fair prices. I'm sure you will end up with more then one grinder or belt sander .I have four belt grinders all different , about six different tool grinders. Find a good used one with strong too rests , the rests mean more then the size of the wheels. Get yourself at least one diamond dresser , you need to clean and dress wheels often. I like the ones with handles you can add a depth stop to the dresser to keep it square. I have found some of the older Sears craftsmen 6-8" wheel grinders with the square motors are very good for tool sharpening for lathe bits. I've even used a Dremel to help get the chip breaker cut in or polish a radius.


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## The_Apprentice (Jul 13, 2017)

Well, here's something I didn't expect to see along grinding... 

http://www.micromark.com/Grinder-Attachment-for-Mini-Lathes

I'll pass on it for now of course. Always find it interesting to see the different tooling for mini-lathes I was not expecting to find.


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## SSage (Jul 13, 2017)

We were making knives, so we have a couple of the decent belt grinders. Shop used, I see them on Craig's List all the time, mostly use for wood work.

You can also build your own belt grinder. If you check out the knife/blade forums there is a few ways of making them. My Dad started making the bolt together version with a 1 1/2 hp motor so we could use the larger belts and have more power. We are changing it up now, need to build a rest for HSS grinding. The advantage to building one is the cost, the power and you can make a rest that actually works.

Its a pain, but it sure beats all the cheap Asian versions made out of cast pot metal. You can pick up cheap motors used that run smooth. You can make your own with a band saw and a drill press or less. I think my Dad cut all the metal using a porta band, so it can be done with minimal tools.

But a used horizontal band saw with cooling is so nice, got one at a pawn shop for $130 I think. It was a 3 speed belt type on a custom stand, no brand name on it. Baldor motor, so it may be a decent brand, it works good. Check those pawn shops or used listings,


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## Splat (Jul 14, 2017)

I love my old Craftsman grinder. Here's a nice one on *Ebay*. Mine is from the 50's. You shut off the motor and the wheels are still spinning 10 minutes later.  They are heavy as heck though.


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## Ken from ontario (Jul 14, 2017)

Splat said:


> I love my old Craftsman grinder. Here's a nice one on *Ebay*. Mine is from the 50's. You shut off the motor and the wheels are still spinning 10 minutes later.  They are heavy as heck though.


I would buy that in a heartbeat if it could pick it up locally, shipping that thing will cost more than the grinder itself.


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## Splat (Jul 14, 2017)

Ken from ontario said:


> I would buy that in a heartbeat if it could pick it up locally, shipping that thing will cost more than the grinder itself.



Didn't see you were up North.   Well, there's bound to be some up there for sale. They were very popular grinders.


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