# D1-4 lugs won't loosen



## Aukai (Feb 6, 2020)

I have a 12x28 PM lathe D1-4 cam locks. I have never removed the chuck before this attempt. I marked the position for reference, and have not been able to budge the locks with the T handle using enough force that it hurt my palms. The T bar for the chuck is not a big one though. How to proceed?


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## middle.road (Feb 6, 2020)

Aukai said:


> I have a 12x28 PM lathe D1-4 cam locks. I have never removed the chuck before this attempt. I marked the position for reference, and have not been able to budge the locks with the T handle using enough force that it hurt my palms. The T bar for the chuck is not a big one though. How to proceed?


Can we get a picture of how the sockets are currently positioned on the spindle?

After I finally got my 1440 into the shop I had to put a cheater bar on the T-handle to get them to loosen.
And then a dead blow to get the chuck to give up it's grip.
And it probably goes without saying, but don't forget to put a block of wood on the ways.


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## Aukai (Feb 6, 2020)

I'm guessing a cheater bar maybe the ticket.


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## darkzero (Feb 6, 2020)

I use a ratchet and a 10mm drain plug socket for my cam locks. Well I used to, I use a sliding t-handle now instead of the ratchet. The wrench that came with my lathe for the cam locks was useless, was basically just a chuck key.

If your's is 10mm & you don't have a drain plug socket you can just use a 3/8 drive extension. Will be a bit loose but should work fine. Well, I have done that a number of times on my lathe. It shouldn't need that much force to get it loose. 

You are turning counter clockwise, correct? Just making sure.


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## Aukai (Feb 6, 2020)

A 12" ratchet pulled the table around, but did not budge the lock.


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## Aukai (Feb 6, 2020)

Yes counter  
Gonna try with a different angle pull


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## mmcmdl (Feb 6, 2020)

May have to shock it Mike . They should never be that tight .


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## Aukai (Feb 6, 2020)

I'll give that a wack also....


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## darkzero (Feb 6, 2020)

Oh BTW, you don't need to mark the cam lock. It's already marked. When you tighten it, the mark circled in red should fall in between the 2 arrows circled in blue. It doesn't need to be exactly where you made your mark & may not be if the chuck is indexed to a different cam lock pin.

What would help is dab a bit of red paint or whatever color you fancy in that little line circled in red. Makes it much more easier to see.


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## darkzero (Feb 6, 2020)

I don't know about giving it a wack. Maybe a few light taps. Just be careful & don't go all King Kong on it, it's the spindle we're talking about here.

As Dave said, it's should never be that tight, well seems like it is now but should never need to be.


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## mmcmdl (Feb 6, 2020)

Aukai said:


> I'll give that a wack also....



I have a BFH if you need one !


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## Aukai (Feb 6, 2020)

Will, the one lock did not have a definite punch mark, so I marked them all. A 23" 1/2" breaker bar to 3/8 socket adapter got it loose. I like to sneak up on breaking things......


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## middle.road (Feb 6, 2020)

I couldn't even make out the 'hash' mark in the first photo. Gonna need to grind that a bit deeper and color it like Will says.
Possibly a bit of de-burring is in order once the chuck is off.


darkzero said:


> Oh BTW, you don't need to mark the cam lock. It's already marked. When you tighten it, the mark circled in red should fall in between the 2 arrows circled in blue. It doesn't need to be exactly where you made your mark & may not be if the chuck is indexed to a different cam lock pin.
> 
> What would help is dab a bit of red paint or whatever color you fancy in that little line circled in red. Makes it much more easier to see.
> 
> View attachment 312865


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## darkzero (Feb 6, 2020)

Aukai said:


> Will, the one lock did not have a definite punch mark, so I marked them all. A 23" 1/2" breaker bar to 3/8 socket adapter got it loose. I like to sneak up on breaking things......



I see. Ok, when you make your marks, the proper way to mark them is with the cam lock in the open position (cam lock pins slide out freely) the mark should be pointing up at the line in the 12:00 position. Then when locked, anywhere between the two arrows.


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## Aukai (Feb 6, 2020)

2 of the locks tightened mid way between the arrows, the last one went to the bottom arrow. Do I need to pull it off, and adjust that lock?
Thank you for the pictures Will...


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## Aukai (Feb 6, 2020)

I pulled the chuck, and turned the lock one turn, now the mark is at the top arrow,,,,?


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## mikey (Feb 6, 2020)

I was just in the process of saying to adjust the stud on the chuck side, not the lock side. As long as the locking cam mark falls between 3 and 6 O'clock, you're okay.


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## Aukai (Feb 7, 2020)

OK that's good. Now the spindal TIR is .0005,, the backing plate is .0035, and the Chuck is off the map, more to do tomorrow.


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## mmcmdl (Feb 7, 2020)

It turned " tomorrow " 6 minutes ago over here ~


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## mikey (Feb 7, 2020)

Have you tried indexing the backing plate? It has three possible mounting positions, right? Mark one, check the run out and then repeat until you've mapped all three. Pick the one with the lowest run out and make a mark across from the indexing mark on your spindle. If there is no indexing mark on your spindle, make one. Every time you mount your chuck, align the marks so your chuck runs with maximum accuracy.


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## Aukai (Feb 7, 2020)

Tomorrow is 4.5 hrs away Dave, thanks Mike, just done for today.


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## darkzero (Feb 7, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> It turned " tomorrow " 6 minutes ago over here ~



Ya gotta remember, they're in Hawaii. Everybody _slow ride_ over there!


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## Aukai (Feb 7, 2020)

Hey you guys still awake


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## darkzero (Feb 7, 2020)

Yep


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## mikey (Feb 7, 2020)

Nope, I'm sleeping.


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## DavidR8 (Feb 7, 2020)

I’m sleeping too zzzzzzzx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mmcmdl (Feb 7, 2020)

I have no where to go for another 5 hours .


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## darkzero (Feb 7, 2020)

You've heard of sleep walking? Well I sleep surf H-M. That's why most of my posts don't make sense, have smelling pistakes, & have typing errors. Well the typing errors are due to my fat fingers & the small keyboard on my phone.


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## mmcmdl (Feb 7, 2020)

As of yesterday , I now get to monitor 7 different screens in here at night , instead of just one . The new and improved system . Hm...………………..for who ?  I also just ran head on to a low hanging pipe up in the mezzanine , I won't be sleeping anytime soon with this headache .


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## darkzero (Feb 7, 2020)

Well, I guess he fell asleep.


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## Tozguy (Feb 7, 2020)

Aukai,
Good morning!
Just wondering if you inspected the cams once the chuck was off.
My D1-4 system had a similar problem the first time the chuck was removed. One of the cams was very difficult to loosen. Someone at the factory must have forced the cam because it was seriously gouged. Two of the cams were replaced on warranty.



Also, I would recommend that you only use a well fitting wrench in the cams. The factory wrench was not a good fit in my cams which ended up damaging the socket. So I made up a new one.



When installing a chuck on the spindle hold the chuck square to the spindle. The cams should all turn very easily to the first mark. Once all three cams are at the first mark go around the cams to pull the chuck in as evenly as possible.


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## Aukai (Feb 7, 2020)

Just got home from a get together with my daughter, and her friends who are visiting from America for a nursing/RT conference at Poi Pu.
A good time was had by all.....
Fried Akule
Papya seed shrimp
garlic seasoned shrimp
smoked meat(pork)
baked chicken
barbecue chicken
eggplant with onions
and several deserts

Hey Toz, all of the locks were pristine.


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## mikey (Feb 7, 2020)

Aukai said:


> Just got home from a get together with my daughter, and her friends who are visiting from America for a nursing/RT conference at Poi Pu.
> A good time was had by all.....
> Fried Akule
> Papya seed shrimp
> ...



For those of you who have never been to a Hawaii-style potluck, this is what it's like - you bring the best you know how to make. It's about respect for the people you are with, pride in your cooking and Aloha for the group. Small wonder that some of us eat until we get sleepy or pass out!


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## Aukai (Feb 7, 2020)

Hawaiian paralysis.....


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## middle.road (Feb 7, 2020)

I think you guys have to get a couple of web cams setup that point out of your shops, showing us what decent weather is...
Don't need beach, just what going from the house to the shop looks like in paradise.   


mikey said:


> Yes, you can tilt the head to cut the angles if your mill is capable of that. I prefer a tilting angle table because it is very fast, accurate, solid and it let's me get away without having to re-tram the head to vertical.





mikey said:


> For those of you who have never been to a Hawaii-style potluck, this is what it's like - you bring the best you know how to make. It's about respect for the people you are with, pride in your cooking and Aloha for the group. Small wonder that some of us eat until we get sleepy or pass out!





Aukai said:


> Hawaiian paralysis.....


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## Aukai (Feb 7, 2020)

Here you go. 12:16 it just hit 70*


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## mmcmdl (Feb 7, 2020)

Morning Mike . ( for me ) Looks like a great day for some turning over there .


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## Aukai (Feb 7, 2020)

Slow moving, it's cold.....


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## mmcmdl (Feb 7, 2020)

Lol .


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## Aukai (Feb 7, 2020)

I thought you would like that.....


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## Aukai (Feb 7, 2020)

OK, today's project was to center my Ajust-Tru Buck chuck. I tightened a 3/4" end mill shank in the 3 jaw with enough sticking out to run the indicators on, one plunger, and one DTI. I slacked the front bolts, and adjusted the side socket heads to .0004 TIR, tightened the front socket heads and maintained the TIR. Did I do this right, and should I try for perfect? I have a feeling some of you might. Thanks for following along. Another question, what size is the chuck key?


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## mmcmdl (Feb 7, 2020)

You could but really not necessary . Dial it in perfect if you have a second operation on your part .


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## Aukai (Feb 7, 2020)

I had it about here one time, and chased it, I guess it's by finesse that I still have to work on. Changing the tension a little moves it pretty good.


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## mmcmdl (Feb 7, 2020)

I doubt you'll be trying to hold .0005 TIR in the near future , so don't worry about it . When the need arrives , dial it in perfect to the part . The TIR will not remain the same at different diameters to begin with . That's why we bore soft jaws .


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## Aukai (Feb 7, 2020)

OK, good exercise.....


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## darkzero (Feb 7, 2020)

Aukai said:


> Hawaiian paralysis.....



Same as kanak attack?


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## Aukai (Feb 7, 2020)

AKA


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## mikey (Feb 8, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> I doubt you'll be trying to hold .0005 TIR in the near future , so don't worry about it . *When the need arrives , dial it in perfect to the part . The TIR will not remain the same at different diameters to begin with *. That's why we bore soft jaws .



Mike, listen to Dave. He is dead on the money. For first operations, the chuck will turn true. For second operations, adjust to minimize run out on the part. Because you dial it in for one part does not mean it will run true for every other diameter. Everytime you change parts the run out will change. The advantage you have is that you can dial it out if you need to.


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## Aukai (Feb 8, 2020)

Understood, thank you


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## mikey (Feb 8, 2020)

middle.road said:


> I think you guys have to get a couple of web cams setup that point out of your shops, showing us what decent weather is...
> Don't need beach, just what going from the house to the shop looks like in paradise.



I was out the entire day and just got home ... dark now. Was a bright, sunny day today, about 72 degrees with a nice N-NE wind. Not a single snowflake or raindrop in sight. If it makes you feel any better, Dan, we had some rain a few days ago but it just turned everything greener.


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## mmcmdl (Feb 8, 2020)

I'm feeling your pain Mike and Mike , that weather sounds just horrible .  Lets see . Today we had thunderstorms with tornado warnings , sleet , snow and 50mph winds . And this was all before 9 am !  The dogs wouldn't even go out to take care of business .


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## mikey (Feb 8, 2020)

There's a saying over here: "Lucky you live Hawaii!" After reading what you're dealing with, Dave, it is all the more true!


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## middle.road (Feb 8, 2020)

Ah, blue skies.... How sweet it is. 
I could go for temperate right about now. 


Aukai said:


> Here you go. 12:16 it just hit 70*


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## matthewsx (Feb 8, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> I have a BFH if you need one !



I have a range of hammers from tiny tack hammers to a 20 lb sledge with a short handle. Can never have too many....


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## mmcmdl (Feb 8, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> 20 lb sledge



Uh huh ! The " motivater " !  My workers can take 4 hours to break something using child's play tools . I tell them you could have broken that in 5 seconds and I could've had it fixed in an hour . We woulda saved 3 hours and got a bonus ! LMAO . ( on the bonus part )


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## matthewsx (Feb 8, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> Uh huh ! The " motivater " !  My workers can take 4 hours to break something using child's play tools . I tell them you could have broken that in 5 seconds and I could've had it fixed in an hour . We woulda saved 3 hours and got a bonus ! LMAO . ( on the bonus part )



Yep, if you're fixing it that means it was broken in the first place....


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