# I need/want an Arbor press



## Aukai (Oct 22, 2021)

I would like to round out my ability to do keyways. I have the hyd press, but I'm leery of the possible consequences. I would like to avoid a Chinese knock off, but this one looks decent with free shipping. Any comments, or ideas?








						Ratchet Arbor Press 3 Ton Rivet Press Machine Ring Type Cast Iron Assembly Ap-3  | eBay
					

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## Ulma Doctor (Oct 22, 2021)

if you plan on using an arbor press, get one with extra tall headspace
you may be severely limited by the 11" opening
the 1/4" Dumont C push broach i have here is 11-3/4" long by itself, much less stacked onto a workpiece 
obviously shorter broaches could be used successfully


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## Nutfarmer (Oct 22, 2021)

I use a twelve ton OTC hyd. Press for key way broaching  and never have had any problems.


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## Aukai (Oct 22, 2021)

Good point Mike. I have a 20T, but From what I've heard the broach can release in fragments if things get out of line. I have not tried it, so I'm not confident in attempting it. The hack in me would try it in a heart beat if I had to.


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## mmcmdl (Oct 22, 2021)

My AAI co-worked ended up in the ER with broach parts in his stomach . No feel with a hydraulic press . A 3 ton Dake would be perfect Mike . And the one you pictured would work great also with the shorter broaches . 


Aukai said:


> Good point Mike. I have a 20T, but From what I've heard the broach can release in fragments if things get out of line. I have not tried it, so I'm not confident in attempting it. The hack in me would try it in a heart beat if I had to.


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## Aukai (Oct 22, 2021)

I have the 11 3/4" broaches, and used Dakes are 900 bucks


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## mmcmdl (Oct 22, 2021)

I had one set aside at work and the thing disappeared overnight . Never did find out where it went . They should be emptying out the other plant very soon is what I'm hearing . I'll be making up my wanted list for them .


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## Alcap (Oct 22, 2021)

I’ve never did broaching , how much pressure , tonnage , does it take to cut a large size ? Reason I ask is I have a cheap HF hydraulic one and thought someday I might get a arbor press to do keyways


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## vtcnc (Oct 22, 2021)

Alcap said:


> I’ve never did broaching , how much pressure , tonnage , does it take to cut a large size ? Reason I ask is I have a cheap HF hydraulic one and thought someday I might get a arbor press to do keyways


What do you define as large?


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## ddickey (Oct 22, 2021)

I have a three ton Famco. Pretty sure I could not broach with it. Just not enough oomph.


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## Aukai (Oct 22, 2021)

I have not either, but I thought that you add shims behind the broach to get it to the proper depth, not a full cut at once....


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## mmcmdl (Oct 22, 2021)

A 3 ton will broach up to1/2 " easily . We have one in my shop .


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## mmcmdl (Oct 22, 2021)

Aukai said:


> I have not either, but I thought that you add shims behind the broach to get it to the proper depth, not a full cut at once....


That is correct , and plenty of oil is needed .


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## Alcap (Oct 22, 2021)

Vtcnc , I was thinking what I might come across as in my hobby shop, 1/2” keyway ? There’s a 3 ton KRW 37-N on Marketplace for $100 ,


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## vtcnc (Oct 22, 2021)

Alcap said:


> Vtcnc , I was thinking what I might come across as in my hobby shop, 1/2” keyway ? There’s a 3 ton KRW 37-N on Marketplace for $100 ,


As others have also indicated, assuming you have the throat depth, 3 ton should be plenty with oil and shims. Kind of standard procedure really. $100 for a 3-ton seems very reasonable.


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## Janderso (Oct 22, 2021)

Aukai said:


> I have the 11 3/4" broaches, and used Dakes are 900 bucks


I’ve been sharpening chipper blades on my SG for my neighbors brother.
When I went to look at the Monarch they were selling I noticed this beautiful old Dake arbor press.
Gary told me his brother wanted to give me the Dake out of appreciation.
They are in their late 70’s and are trying to clean up their shop.
I am very excited about it.
Pics to come. It’s at least a 3 ton.
Sometimes you just get lucky.


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## vocatexas (Oct 22, 2021)

I got a 3 ton Jet arbor press for $80 at an auction a few years ago. Keep your eyes open. You'll run across one.


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## Winegrower (Oct 22, 2021)

I have broached a bunch of keyways making components for the horizontal mill, up to 3/8” in steel, using the 20 ton HF press.   In my humble opinion you would have to be a careless idiot to hurt yourself or your broach.

The problem with one or three ton presses, as noted above, is the throat height is way too short for most anything I’ve wanted to broach.   Pressing bearings, small press fits, maybe, but I’ve made enough fixtures, pins and dies that the HF works for small delicate stuff also.


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## projectnut (Oct 22, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> A 3 ton will broach up to1/2 " easily . We have one in my shop .


I would agree with the 3 ton size for most broaching.  I have a 3 to Greenerd and it works fine up to 1/2" which is all the larger i have anyway.  It's nice to have a ratchet as opposed to the full rotating lever.  I would also suggest a deep throat model.

This is the one I've had for over 20 years.  I traded an old Toro lawnmower for it.


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## addertooth (Oct 22, 2021)

The amount of pressure is adjusted by how much increase from the previous shim behind the broach is.  If you are taking a thicker cut, then more pressure is required.  If the shim is is a very small increase from the previous shim, then the pressure is less. As long as you don't get greedy with your cuts, the pressure will be low.  This is true whether you are using a hydraulic or not.  Alignment is important, if the broach is "cocked", then pressure will be sky-high, even with a small cut.  

If you have a lathe, you can always use it to do a one-tooth shaper action, and avoid expensive broach sets and arbor press.  This is really only reasonable if you are making one-off parts, or VERY small batches.  If you are doing production, then a broach, or a REAL shaper is the way to go.


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## jwmelvin (Oct 22, 2021)

addertooth said:


> The amount of pressure is adjusted by how much increase from the previous shim behind the broach is.



I’m not clear on why people say this. A broach has a fixed increment from tooth to tooth, and that cut depth times the number of teeth in engagement will control the force required. If you mean using such small shims that only one or two teeth at the end of the broach cut for a given shim, then sure. But that seems impossibly slow. And would put all the work on the last tooth or two. Basically no better than shaping in a lathe. Reducing the force for a fully engaged broach would require changing the angle of attack or modifying the broach itself.


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## jbobb1 (Oct 22, 2021)

I've broached keyways over 1 1/4" wide on a 90 ton Dake press. It's dangerous if you don't know what you're doing and what to look for when a problem arises! If you're doing small stuff, and you're not comfortable using a hyd. get a arbor press.


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## addertooth (Oct 22, 2021)

jwmelvin said:


> I’m not clear on why people say this. A broach has a fixed increment from tooth to tooth, and that cut depth times the number of teeth in engagement will control the force required. If you mean using such small shims that only one or two teeth at the end of the broach cut for a given shim, then sure. But that seems impossibly slow. And would put all the work on the last tooth or two. Basically no better than shaping in a lathe. Reducing the force for a fully engaged broach would require changing the angle of attack or modifying the broach itself.


If you start with a heavy bite at the First tooth, that stress is along the entire broach (more potential for flex and mis-alignment).  If you start the bite mid-broach, it is a shorter length that is bearing that stress, and is less likely to deflect.  Yes, the tooth to tooth cut is defined by the broach, but, biting hard at the first tooth is more likely to create drama without a well-aligned jig.


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## jbobb1 (Oct 22, 2021)

Typical broach nests or bushings are usually machined so the first tooth of the broach just starts engaging the bore of the part you're  working on.


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## addertooth (Oct 22, 2021)

Yes, the standard bushings do that.  But then, the very first pass of the broach only first engages at the corners of the broach, then you can add shims for subsequent passes (while using the First bushing).  This way you control the first "engagement tooth" of the broach.  This is for people who are concerned about the broach breaking/shattering.  I tended to be pretty aggressive with big beefy broaches, and a bit more cautious with smaller and more narrow broaches.


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## gonzo (Oct 22, 2021)

Be careful, this copy may (probably ) be smaller than the original that you may have seen elsewhere.
Note that no specifications are quoted in the ad.


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## alloy (Oct 22, 2021)

I bought this off Facebook.  Using it to do 5/16" keyways on 1-1/8" diameter collar clamps for my transmission mods.  I had to shorten the broach about 1/2" for it to work.  I'd rather have a ratchet arbor press, but the price on this one was right and it was local.

I completely agree on using a hydraulic press.  I tried it on my 20ton HF press once, and never tried it again.  The broach didn't go through straight and thankfully I didn't break the broach.  It often does the same on my arbor press, but I can feel it getting harder to push the broach through and straighten the broach and not break anything.


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## benmychree (Oct 22, 2021)

The thing about arbor presses for broaching is that unlike hydraulic presses, pressure is relieved at every stroke and the broach is allowed to realign itself, not generally the case with hydraulic presses, especially with cheap ones that do not have tight guides to keep the ram in alignment.  I have seen key broaches start to buckle from misalignment, but I have never broken one.


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## MrWhoopee (Oct 22, 2021)

I've done a lot of broaching up to 3/4" in a poorly built hydraulic press. I've also broken a few broaches. In a hydraulic it's wise to push, back off, push again, etc.  Always orient the broach so you can see the profile of the teeth. This makes it easier to tell if it is digging in and going off vertical. If this happens, push the BUSHING out, turn the part over and start again. Also, do not stand directly in front of the press.  The broach will break across its thinnest section and the shrapnel will most likely fly in that direction. Stand off to one side.

I have a 3-ton arbor press nearly identical to the one pictured above by @alloy. Found it on FB Marketplace for $75 along with a $50 6 in. Buck Adjust-Tru 3-jaw. It was a Really Good Day. Anyway, the press is also a little too short for a C broach. Using a thinner shim to start each pass is one solution. I'm considering counter-boring the end of the ram to gain more height, with a removable shoe fitted to the c'bore for situations where the extra height is not needed.


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## alloy (Oct 22, 2021)

Here is my setup for broaching the collar clamps.  I do a first pass with no shim, second with one thick shim, 3rd with another thick shim, and 4th with a thin shim I made from steel strapping.  Your can see nthe shims on the left. This produces the perfect depth to hold the stepped key I make that holds the speedometer gear from spinning on the output shaft.

I have to watch how it's working because the broach ends to tilt backwards and will cut the keyway angled.


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## MrWhoopee (Oct 22, 2021)

alloy said:


> I have to watch how it's working because the broach ends to tilt backwards and will cut the keyway angled.


This is the situation I was referring to when I recommended orienting the broach/part so you can see the profile of the teeth. Makes it much easier to detect.


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## alloy (Oct 22, 2021)

MrWhoopee said:


> This is the situation I was referring to when I recommended orienting the broach/part so you can see the profile of the teeth. Makes it much easier to detect.


I normally do that, but I first line up the broach at a right angle with the split in the clamp so it looks professionally done. I send these parts all over the world and I don't want customers to think it's from some broken down old guy in a shop in his back yard (which it is)


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## Aukai (Oct 22, 2021)

Thank you for all of the responses everyone. If I can get one to Carson California, my friend has space on a container, then I can get it here to Kauai. I'll keep looking for a good one.


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## ddickey (Oct 22, 2021)

Correction: Mine is a Famco 2ton. Pretty sure broaching would be out of the question.


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## Janderso (Oct 22, 2021)

jbobb1 said:


> I've broached keyways over 1 1/4" wide on a 90 ton Dake press. It's dangerous if you don't know what you're doing and what to look for when a problem arises! If you're doing small stuff, and you're not comfortable using a hyd. get a arbor press.


I had one explode on me. I was using a pneumatic hydraulic press at work.
I had no feedback whatsoever. First pass went easy easy, the shim that came with the kit was too aggressive. I learned a lesson.
That broach was $85
I think an arbor press is ideal for broaching and pressing bearings.


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## jbobb1 (Oct 22, 2021)

Janderso said:


> I had one explode on me. I was using a pneumatic hydraulic press at work.
> I had no feedback whatsoever. First pass went easy easy, the shim that came with the kit was too aggressive. I learned a lesson.
> That broach was $85
> I think an arbor press is ideal for broaching and pressing bearing



I totally agree. Using the press I mentioned was only due to the physical size of the parts I had worked on. I was lucky enough to never had one explode on me.


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## Janderso (Oct 22, 2021)

gonzo said:


> Be careful, this copy may (probably ) be smaller than the original that you may have seen elsewhere.
> Note that no specifications are quoted in the ad.


The throat does look shallow for a 3 ton.
On the other hand, they come in different lengths but there is no such thing as a cheap broach. Imho


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## MrWhoopee (Oct 24, 2021)

big arbor press - tools - by owner - sale
					

this thing is big and heavy



					losangeles.craigslist.org
				












						Famco Arbor Press Model Number 3 With Stand - tools - by owner - sale
					

((No Emails)) Model 3 Made In U.S.A. $350 No Less Cash Only Call 3two33zero283TwoNine



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						6 Ton Famco Model 4R Ratchet Arbor Press Heavy Duty Made in USA -...
					

6 Ton Famco Model 4R Ratchet Arbor Press Heavy Duty Made in USA



					losangeles.craigslist.org


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## alloy (Oct 24, 2021)

MrWhoopee said:


> big arbor press - tools - by owner - sale
> 
> 
> this thing is big and heavy
> ...


Dang,  from seeing those prices I got a smokin deal on mine.


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## Aukai (Oct 24, 2021)

Thank you for the link, I'm looking at them now.


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## Larry$ (Oct 24, 2021)

I don't have an arbor press so use a 20 ton hydraulic. I've trued everything up and just push a short distance and back of enough let the broach free then go a bit more. I use the shims that came with the broaches. Works fine in mild steel. The process is slow. The press was bought to press bearings on & off but some times heat is needed. It is a considerably heavier press than what HF sells these days. I can't believe they send cast iron press plates.


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## Aukai (Oct 25, 2021)

I have a 20T press from NAPA, the cast iron was discontinued due to breakage. My air over pneumatic is only rated to 10T. Because I have that I'm looking for a ratcheting tall ~3 ton arbor press, and can kinda wait.


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## Winegrower (Oct 25, 2021)

Check out the press H&W uses in their video about replacing Bridgeport spindle bearings.   There’s no way I could fit or afford such a beast, but the HF press works fine.  

It seems to me if you’re going to break a broach with the HF press, you’re likely to have trouble with any press.    You just can’t start pumping away without being very aware of what’s happening.  The amount of force is just not all that much, in my opinion and experience.


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## Aukai (Oct 25, 2021)

I've heard the press release, press release theory before, and I understand the theory.


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## Dabbler (Oct 25, 2021)

I just managed to snag this arbor press brand new for 75 Kanuckistan dollars:



			https://www.princessauto.com/en/3-ton-multi-function-fabrication-press/product/PA0008835548
		


The throat is 12", but the height is only 3 1/2 (5" without the holder.  No good for broaching, but fine for pressing bearings and forming..


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## Janderso (Oct 25, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> I just managed to snag this arbor press brand new for 75 Kanuckistan dollars:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s cheap enough.
I needed to press some bearings so I ran down to HF and bought their one ton.
It works. But, like Dabbler said, no good for broaching.
I was just looking at Machinery’s Handbook.
Broaches come in various configurations.
Square
Round
Single keyway
Double keyway
Four spline
Hexagon
Rectangular
Internal gear
Helical splines

Probably have to take out a mortgage to finance some of these!


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## Toolmaker51 (Oct 25, 2021)

Broaching effort is proportional, especially manual. Presses aren't sized by throat depth alone, tonnage is a factor, you can expect enough power in a _press tall enough for your workpiece and size of broach. _

Be aware, the broach length is added to part height. The un-toothed starting guide enters minimally.

Most important factor is to not expect pushing through in one shot. I'd avoid purchase of a small arbor press, I have 4, all manual and 1 pneumatic-hydraulic 60 ton. They are chosen by which is smallest to do job in question; but larger is _better than too small._

Adjust the _ram clearance to a minimum over entire stroke, and lubricate_ with decent bearing grease, gear lube, or way oil. All have good film properties.

If you make a bushing, ensure width has least sliding clearance possible, depth must accommodate shims associated with using that broach. They are designated by letters, increasing with thickness to achieve depth. Only the smallest broaches generate full depth in a single pass.

Ram must be retracted every 2-3 maybe 5 teeth, allowing it to right itself - eliminate binding and breakage. 

There is more than just cutting going on; _apply plenty of cutting oil to teeth, spine AND and bushing._ Moly-disulfide compounds work best, to combine cutting action and this lubrication.

_Brush chips from spine and the teeth before re-inserting.
_
A box or bucket below is needed and will catch chips and the broach. 

Used arbor presses aren't rare. I expect half available were found too small...the littlest are assembly tools of light interference fits, not what I'd call 'press work'. A clear sign is ram has a mushroomed head, trying to eek a bit more power. (Probably not same guy who paid for it!)

If bought used, ensure end is square. It's useful; face it off, bore a hole and a setscrew across to hold "tooling". 1/2" and 10-32 is OK. You'll thank me repeatedly for that tidbit. Should be, yet don't think that is ever a feature in a commercially made arbor press. 
I like tapping 2 holes of opposed corners the bed plate as well.


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## Larry$ (Oct 25, 2021)

Toolmaker51 said:


> Ram must be retracted every 2-3 maybe 5 teeth, allowing it to right itself - eliminate binding and breakage.


Somehow that just seems like common sense. Once something under compression starts to bow it's ability to resist force falls off very rapidly. Same idea as is used in building design for columns. That's why all the reference charts use slenderness ratios. The ratio on a broach is pretty extreme!


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## mattthemuppet2 (Oct 25, 2021)

alloy said:


> Dang,  from seeing those prices I got a smokin deal on mine.


no kidding! I got my import 3 ton for $50, plus about $600 of search light parts


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## Aukai (Oct 25, 2021)

The more capable name brands that can handle 12+ inch broaches, are priced pretty high so far.


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## MrWhoopee (Oct 27, 2021)

It occurs to me that a small amount of height could be gained by making the slot in the bushing deeper, allowing the broach to start on the second or third tooth. An extra shim would be required to make up the difference on the final pass.


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## Toolmaker51 (Oct 28, 2021)

Larry$ said:


> Somehow that just seems like common sense. Once something under compression starts to bow it's ability to resist force falls off very rapidly. Same idea as is used in building design for columns. That's why all the reference charts use slenderness ratios. The ratio on a broach is pretty extreme!


Agreed, though never has a Bend Moment chart been posted next to an arbor press.....nor transpose into visual & tactile feedbacks pushing a broach.
As I often mention in re machines and tooling, the care taken is first proportional to who paid for it; then, how hard they worked for the cash to do so.

Here's a cheat, provided care is employed in setup and use; with a decent size lathe, the tail stock has a screw of significant size, and generates considerable pressure...


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## Janderso (Oct 28, 2021)

Toolmaker51 said:


> Ram must be retracted every 2-3 maybe 5 teeth, allowing it to right itself - eliminate binding and breakage.


I wish I had read this before I shattered my $85 broach


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## Toolmaker51 (Oct 28, 2021)

Only $85? I was fortunately NOT nearby when a $1800 spline broach did same thing...but heard it and expletives that followed.


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## ttabbal (Oct 28, 2021)

This thread made me wonder about broaching. Seems like this style might work well... This one is an import, no idea if it is any good, but does the style seem like a good option? 









						3 TON PRO-SERIES RATCHET TYPE ARBOR PRESS (8600-4401)  | eBay
					

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## Toolmaker51 (Oct 28, 2021)

Comparatively high priced for an import, when domestic used is all over the web; craigslist, facebook marketplace, offerup. I'm sure there are many more. Prices span from .25% retail on up.
Go by the specs; 3t + depth and working height, some are missing the yoke plate, but any one reading these pages should be able to fabricate their own.


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