# Pm1340-gt Qctp?



## Alan H. (Nov 15, 2016)

I am likely to order a 1340GT later this week when I get it all run to ground.  I am trying to decide what to do about a quick change tool post.  As you likely know, Matt offers one with 5 holders for ~200 bucks.  He also sells a couple of Aloris options but they are far more expensive.    Of course there are options from others as well. 

For those of you with this machine, what did you opt for and why?    Thanks in advance for the insights.


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## wrmiller (Nov 15, 2016)

I and one or two other 1340GT owners here (that I know of) went Dorian, which IMO is just a slight tick up from a Aloris. I also went with a way more expensive chuck than I intended (PBA) because I was thinking that it would seem silly to spend that much money for a quality lathe and then cheap out on the critical accessories. Just my $0.02.


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## davidpbest (Nov 15, 2016)

I too went with Dorian tool post and couldn't be happier.  After purchasing and evaluating Aloris, Dorian, Phase II tool holders, I ended up buying 20 of Matt's BXA tool holders.   Yes, the Aloris and Dorian tool holders are a bit nicer, but I'm happy with my choice.  Also bought the upgraded "Preferred Equipment Package" and the Taiwanese 4-jaw chuck, and asked Matt to upgrade the 3-jaw even more to a ChanDox Adjust-tru type 3-jaw.  These chucks look every bit as good as a Bison or PBA to me.


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## Alan H. (Nov 15, 2016)

davidpbest said:


> I too went with Dorian tool post and couldn't be happier.  After purchasing and evaluating Aloris, Dorian, Phase II tool holders, I ended up buying 20 of Matt's BXA tool holders.   Yes, the Aloris and Dorian tool holders are a bit nicer, but I'm happy with my choice.  Also bought the upgraded "Preferred Equipment Package" and the Taiwanese 4-jaw chuck, and asked Matt to upgrade the 3-jaw even more to a ChanDox Adjust-tru type 3-jaw.  These chucks look every bit as good as a Bison or PBA to me.


David, Thanks for the feedback.
Interesting that you bought Matt's tool holders and the Dorian.  Did you look at Matt's post and compare it to the Dorian post?

BTW, there is a note on Matt's website that says the 1340GT now comes with an upgraded 3 jaw chuck.  Is this the same one you have?


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## marcusp323 (Nov 16, 2016)

I bought a couple of Aloris off ebay. Have a few Aloris holders, but most of mine are the Shars, Phase II, etc. As long as you replace the cheesy hold down screws with good stuff, they work fine. Still have the original 4-sided tool post & a QC that came with my 1340-GT & haven't ever used either. Maybe one of these days I'll get around to selling them


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## davidpbest (Nov 16, 2016)

H&A said:


> David, Thanks for the feedback.
> Interesting that you bought Matt's tool holders and the Dorian.  Did you look at Matt's post and compare it to the Dorian post?
> 
> BTW, there is a note on Matt's website that says the 1340GT now comes with an upgraded 3 jaw chuck.  Is this the same one you have?




My chuck is not the upgraded version mentioned on the web site - the chuck itself is probably similar, but it's an Adjust-tru type which has fine adjustment screws around the outside of the chuck so you can easily dial out the runout - kind of a 3-jaw inside a 4-jaw if you get the analogy.   Here's a photo of the 3-jaw I got from Matt - it's very nice:







I did not evaluate Matt's QC toolpost.   I have worked with other import QC tool posts in the past and not liked them nearly as much as the Dorian.   I'm not saying Matt's tool post isn't great - I just haven't seen it and didn't want to take the risk.  My previous lathe had an Aloris which I liked, but I think the Dorian is slightly more refined.   Personal preference.   

The tool holders are another matter entirely - a chunk of steel with a dovetail on the side.   If this were a CNC lathe where tight tolerances on tool-offsets etc. were a concern, I might have gone a different direction on the holders.   I do think Matt's BXA-style holders are just fine and a terrific value.   I did replace all the screws with grade 8 replacements only because I have OCD.   

As long as I'm posting, I will add that I have made substantial upgrades the the stock PM1340 including all new electronics package from Mark Jacobs, new vector-rated Baldor motor driven by an Hitachi VFD.   Mark Jacobs (mksj here on the forum) has been a tremendous help to me throughout the upgrade.   I also built my own stand.  I'll be posting additional info here on my upgrade once it's complete, but here's a sneak peek:


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## MonkMan (Nov 16, 2016)

Whoa! You got my attention......more please!


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## Alan H. (Nov 16, 2016)

davidpbest said:


> . . . . . . . . . .  I'll be posting additional info here on my upgrade once it's complete, but here's a sneak peek:
> 
> View attachment 139481


Thanks David, wow! 

Now you have us all waiting for the progress update!


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## sanddan (Nov 16, 2016)

David,

Love your DRO monitor mount, very nice. I second the other comments, please do a full write up on your setup.

Dan


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## wrmiller (Nov 16, 2016)

I too, like David, bought some of Matt's tool holders. I have a few Aloris, but the others work just as well. The important piece for repeatability is the QCTP.

EDIT: Oh, and David, I LOVE the face plate. Where do I get mine?


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## sanddan (Nov 16, 2016)

Back to the subject, I went with an Aloris QCTP. I have a Phase II that was mounted on my old lathe but I never liked the feel. I took it apart several times trying to get it to work smoother but decided to step up when I got the PM 1340GT. I got a great deal on the QCTP with 2 holders for the price of just the tool post thanks to Enco's 25% off sales with free shipping. (miss that)

As to the holders, I have 2 Aloris holders that came with the QCTP which are very nice. The Phase II holders are pretty good and can be used "as is". I have a bunch that I got cheap (about $10 ea) that I had to replace the screws to be functional. Some of them are too "tight" in the dovetail and required some tweaking to be usable. I wouldn't buy them again but would either buy Phase II or Aloris in the future.


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## davidpbest (Nov 16, 2016)

wrmiller said:


> EDIT: Oh, and David, I LOVE the face plate. Where do I get mine?



I used frontpanelexpress.com for the panels.  You download their application and design it with that - similar to using 2D CAD program - and once finished, it will price the panel, and upload it to them for fabrication.  Several choices on thickness, colors, finishing, fonts, etc.   With normal (no rush charges), delivery was 8 days from submission.   They aren't cheap, but they are very nice.   I did several other panels on the lathe also, and the MachTach cover plate you can see in the photo.   If you want my frontpanelexpress files, let me know - happy to share.   I did remove the drive screws in the factory plate installation, redrilled and tapped for 5mm screws.  Figuring out this part is the first step before designing your panel so you correctly place the mounting hole positions in the face plates.


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## tmarks11 (Nov 16, 2016)

davidpbest said:


> As long as I'm posting, I will add that I have made substantial upgrades the the stock PM1340 including all new electronics package from Mark Jacobs, new vector-rated Baldor motor driven by an Hitachi VFD.


Beautiful job on the control panel on your lathe.  Good tip on frontpanelexpress.

What model # did you get for the motor?

For my lathe upgrade, I got an inverter rated Leeson motor... the one with the cast iron shell, designed for a speed range of 1:10 so it would have good torque at lower speeds.   I wanted to to get a quality motor....

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Elect...230-460-VAC-3PH-145T-LEESON-MOTOR-10-2723.axd

...not very happy when the motor I got said "MADE IN CHINA" on it.


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## davidpbest (Nov 17, 2016)

tmarks11 said:


> What model # did you get for the motor?


The motor is a Baldor IDNM3587T as recommended by Mark Jacobs.   Tag on the motor says it's made in Ft. Smith Arkansas.  It is an absolute beast, vector design, whisper quiet, and fit in the same space of the factory supplied motor.   http://www.baldor.com/catalog/IDNM3587T


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## davidpbest (Nov 17, 2016)

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to hijack this thread.   I'll start a new thread on my lathe customization in a few days with more details.


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## Alan H. (Nov 17, 2016)

davidpbest said:


> Sorry guys, I didn't mean to hijack this thread.   I'll start a new thread on my lathe customization in a few days with more details.


David, as the OP, I am glad you chimed in and created such interest in "pimping your lathe".  We are all interested in seeing your thread soon!   I am certain the whole story on the work you've done will  very interesting to many.

BTW, thanks for all the insights and help.


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## Alan H. (Nov 29, 2016)

I have now settled in on the Dorian but now trying to figure out where to buy it?   Made a call today and sent a subsequent email to a supplier but haven't heard back.  Could be a strong indicator to avoid that particular supplier so I will likely throw in the towel on them and move on to another one tomorrow.   If you cannot get them to call you when you are tyring to spend money, they're quite likely not to call you if you have a problem to resolve.  Up front indicators of poor customer service are a clue to head another direction!

I will likely buy a "First Time Buyer" set which seems to be an attractive alternative since you get the full monty including the carbide holders and the carbides.  

Edit: I need to confirm the fit of the Dorian carbide holders with the 1340.  I saw an older thread from a year ago that indicated some problems.


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## tmarks11 (Nov 29, 2016)

I bought my Aloris from Enco when there was a 20% off sale and free shipping.

Unfortunately, MSC has absorbed Enco, so it is hard to get as good a deal.  If you had an Enco account, and ported it over to MSC, and get the right coupon, then you can get a good deal.

With today's "CYBER" coupon, the price for Dorian BXA with 4 toolholders is $496. Or you can get an Aloris BXA with 2 toolholders for $379.


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## mksj (Nov 29, 2016)

As much as I can't stand MSC, let alone figure what price you are going to be charged after the "discounts", taxes and shipping,  when I bought my Dorian QCTP from them they were the least expense. Their current online price for their BXA version shows up as $362.49 with a 30% discount. About as good as I have seen. Enco didn't carry Dorian and had a limited selection on Aloris.
Dorian Tool - 13 to 15 Inch Lathe Swing, Wedge Type Quick Change Tool Post 4-7/16 Inch Tool Post Height, Series BXA, 1-1/16 to 2-1/8 Inch Centerline Height Range, 5-13/32 Inch Overall Height
Mfr Part #: 73310101002
MSC Part #: 09056649
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09056649
Save up to 30% on metalworking products over $149 or Save up to 25% on select product lines over $149. ENTER CODE: BIG30H OR BIG25H

Although I purchased the  QCTP Kit with 4 holders, in the long run, I think you are better off buying what you want as opposed to what they send you.  The Dorian #1 and #2 holders seem to vary dimensionally quite a bit depending on when they were manufactured. An oversized holder is sized to fit an oversized insert holder and does not work well for standard size insert holders without a spacer. In the Dorian kit that was sent me, it was sent with oversized holders, and didn't fit the 5/8" BXA standard height tooling. The kit blade style holders for Aloris and Dorian, do not work as well as the clamp style insert cutoff type. On boring bars, I try to standardize on a specific insert that I use in other tooling, mostly CCMT/CCGT in a 3/8" size insert 33.52 or 33.51. These also work well for general machining in most materials. Boring bars normally do not have carbide shims (seats) for the inserts, but the better standard turning holders do along with replaceable parts. They will last much longer than the cheap imports, and are only slightly more. Example of the Kennametal SCLC 103.


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## davidpbest (Nov 30, 2016)

I agree with Mark (mksj).   I felt the same way the OP did when I went looking, and bought the Dorian 1st Time Buyers kit and now wish I had just bought the Dorian toolpost and forgone their tool holders and insert tools.  I love the Dorian tool post, but not the rest of their kit.

The Dorian BXA size tool holders will take >3/4" shank tools, but do so by lowering the bottom ledge that registers the tool in the holder.   To run 5/8" or 1/2" shank tools in the Dorian holders, you have to put a spacer under the tool.  The Aloris BXA tool holders will take 1/2" and 5/8" shanks (maximum).  In contrast, the BXA holders Matt at QMT sells will also take a 3/4" shank tool, but accommodates them with different geometry that doesn't require a spacer under 1/2" and 5/8" shank tools.  Here is a visual comparison of the three:






I'm not trying to push Matt's tool holders on you, so if you want higher quality, Made In America holders for BXA, buy them from Aloris, not Dorian, unless you plan to standardize on 3/4" shank tools or like making spacers.   

My biggest gripes with the Dorian 1st Time set are the individual tools.   As Mark says, their parting blade would not make my "top ten" list of parting options, the right-hand turning tool takes TCMT 21.51 triangular inserts, and their threading tool is a strange (to me) bolt-on cartridge holder for the insert.   In the few months I have had my PM1340, I have dispensed with the Dorian tools all together, and bought individual Kennametal and Seco tools (many that Mark recommended) that take inserts with more useful geometry (CCMT, DCMT, and WNMG).


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## Alan H. (Nov 30, 2016)

Yes Mark, MSC is a pain.  Their promo codes are confusing because they say "up to" a certain percentage savings!  Then they charge me tax on top of that. 

Mark and David, thanks for the excellent feedback.


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## tmarks11 (Nov 30, 2016)

I am a big fan of quality components and put an Aloris on my lathe, because the piston type QCTP that came with it was not precision machined.

But most of my tool holders come from Shars.  They are accurately cut, have ground mating surfaces, and are 1/4 the cost of Aloris.


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