# Repowering a 1916 Southbend Lathe



## RobertHaas (Apr 5, 2019)

My old Lathe is in need of more power and I am unaware of how much power I can bring on board or how much the belts can handle.

I was thinking along the lines of a 3 HP single phase 220 motor.


Will I kill it with that?


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## benmychree (Apr 5, 2019)

You don't say what size the lathe is, but you would be hard put to use that much power on most any belt drive lathe; the motor won't kill it, the speed and cutting forces are what can cause undue wear and tear.


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## projectnut (Apr 5, 2019)

I think a 3 hp motor would be more than overkill for all but the largest South Bend machines.  The 16" to 24" "precision tool room" machines came with a 3 hp motor.  The 13" machines came with a 1 1/2hp motor, and the 10" machines came with a 1 hp motor.  The 10" K series came with either a 1/2 hp or 3/4 hp motor, and the 9" machines came with a 1/2 hp motor.

Having said that I repowered a 1916 Seneca Falls Star #20 lathe (10"x60") with a 1 1/2 hp 1725 rpm motor.  It's way more power than the machine can handle, but it was the best physical fit for the machine at the time.  I do not fully tension the flat belt to avoid damaging something should I have a crash


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## benmychree (Apr 5, 2019)

I would have turned the motor around under the countershaft to avoid chips and crud, or even put the vee pulley on the other end of the countershaft to keep chips and oil from getting caught in the belt and pulleys.


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## projectnut (Apr 5, 2019)

Surprisingly I rarely get chips and oil on the motor.  Every once in a while there are a few chips on the mounting plate, but they're few and far between.  The spindle max speed is about 600 rpm so it doesn't throw that much stuff around.

I do like your idea however.  The machine no longer resides in this location, and the new location doesn't lend itself well to the motor being in it's current position.  As luck would have it in the new location the motor is directly under the drain valves for the water lines to the sink in the garage.  Every spring when I turn on the water I have to climb over the motor.  In addition I have to be sure the lines are fully drained in the fall when I turn them off or they will drain on the motor.  Fortunately it's a TEFC motor. However it's not a washdown motor.


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## benmychree (Apr 5, 2019)

I have a somewhat similar Monarch 9" lathe, and was fortunate to have it come to me with the original countershaft for overhead (lineshaft) drive, so that is the way it is set up, with a short lineshaft, motor overhead and clutches on the countershaft for forward and reverse operation.  I am presently building a 12" swing long bed wood lathe, the drive system will be similar to what you show, but the countershaft behind the headstock will be pivoted off the legs, sort of lie was done on South Bend bench lathes, but with the motor below on a plate that is also on the same pivot system.  This project is waiting for warmer nicer weather; here in Ca. we are spoiled, I have to admit, knowing your location!


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## projectnut (Apr 5, 2019)

The one in the attached pictures and those above was the one my wife's grandfather operated for over 40 years making prototypes for a vending machine company.  When he retired it was given to him as a retirement present.  On his passing it went to my wife's father.  He used it for another 25 years for both wood and metal.  When her father passed I inherited it.  It's been in my shop another 20 years.


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## benmychree (Apr 5, 2019)

Nice long center distance!


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## RobertHaas (Apr 5, 2019)

Sorry, it is a 12" gap bed with a 72" bed. 

Currently has a 1/2HP  120 volt motor, I am going to build a new platform and move the motor spindle up on top to make it an overhead design.


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## benmychree (Apr 5, 2019)

Yes, clearly underpowered!  I think 1 1/2 or 2 hp would be plenty.  There is one of those 16" gap bed SBs around here as well, but with I think an 10ft or longer bed length, it was converted from lineshaft drive a long time ago, but still uses one of the countershaft clutches.


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## RobertHaas (Apr 8, 2019)

so could somebody recommend a motor that would be more compatible with my machine?  I don't need to overpower it.


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## benmychree (Apr 8, 2019)

1- 1/2 or  2 hp  would be enough and cheaper than 3, but the SB belt drive is a limiting factor on how much power is actually delivered, I doubt that one could deliver more that 1 1/2 or 2 hp to the spindle through the flat belt.


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## Superburban (Apr 8, 2019)

I'm still in the overhaul process so I have no hands on experience, but my SB 16" has a 1&1/2 HP 3 phase motor. With the flatbelt drive, I think that is fine.  The 2HP in my Shopfox 12", has taken on some decent tasks, and showed no signs of underpowering, I think it would be fine with a 1& 1/HP drive.

If looking for used, I would look fro a 1&1/2 to a 3 HP, what ever comes up and will fit.  Maybe even a 1HP, if you get a good deal. If new, I would look for 1& 1/2 to 2 & 1/2 HP.


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## benmychree (Apr 8, 2019)

And doubtful that a likely Chinese motor really develops its rated horsepower; it would be interesting to see an import motor and a older USA motor "arm wrestle".


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## RobertHaas (Apr 8, 2019)

You folks have a "source" for these motors?


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## projectnut (Apr 9, 2019)

You might want to check out the Surplus Center.  They have several available in the 1-3 hp range:




__





						Surplus Center
					

Warehouse distributor for many top name manufacturers. Parker Hydraulics, Hypro Pumps, Prince Hydraulics. Direct from the factory.  Surplus equipment. We buy large quantities of manufacturer's surplus or excess stock.



					www.surpluscenter.com
				




The one I put on my Seneca Falls Star #20 came from a local farm store.








						US Motors Farm Motor - FD12CM2P | Blain's Farm & Fleet
					

Get your US Motors Farm Motor - FD12CM2P at Blain's Farm & Fleet. Buy online, choose delivery or in-store pickup. Great prices on Electric Motors.



					www.farmandfleet.com
				




  It's 1.5 hp  totally enclosed fan cooled 1750 rpm.  It can be wired either 110 or 220.  I must admit the prices have gone up considerably since I purchased mine.  If I recall correctly I paid in the $120.00 range.

I had it wired 220 for many years.  Recently I moved it to a new location and don't have a 220 outlet conveniently located.  I was going to add another circuit, but as always happens life gets in the way.  I have it "temporarily" switched over to 110 with the intent of changing it back when time allows.  That could be a week or maybe months.  Now that the weather has broken (72* yesterday) there's plenty to do outside.  All machine shop projects are on hold unless we get some rain or snow.

If you don't mind used you might also want to check used equipment dealers.  I bought a used 1.5 hp motor for my little horizontal lathe from a dealer for $50.00.


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## RobertHaas (Apr 9, 2019)

What is a "farm" motor?

and all of these single phase capacitor start motors can be reversed using my existing motor control right?


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## projectnut (Apr 9, 2019)

RobertHaas said:


> What is a "farm" motor?
> 
> and all of these single phase capacitor start motors can be reversed using my existing motor control right?



They're suitable for outdoor use.  They can be left in the elements without fear of shorting out or deteriorating from exposure to rain, snow, heat, etc., etc.  They generally have sealed shafts, weather resistant paint, and are Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled (TEFC).  They're one step down from a "washdown rated" motor that can withstand high pressure washdown with caustics or detergents.

I'm not sure what controls you have, but they are reversible.  If reversing is needed the most common  way to accomplish it is by using a drum switch.  They are not "instant reverse" motors.  Meaning you cannot just throw the lever from forward to reverse.  You have to let the motor wind down then put it in reverse.  Most instant reverse motors have a mechanical brake to stop the motor or a capacitor to absorb the energy before reversing the direction


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## RobertHaas (Apr 25, 2019)

So.....
The Grizzly 2 HP motor comes with a schematic that I can not decipher. 
it is a H5386 motor

the drum switch I purchased is a Dayton Maintained Reversing Steel Drum Switch, 2 Pole, NEMA Rating 1 


Anyone have any experience with this?


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## projectnut (Apr 25, 2019)

There should be a wiring diagram on the inside of the switch cover.  If I remember correctly it uses the standard wire numbering system.

Here's a link to the wiring diagram from Grainger:


			https://www.grainger.com/ec/pdf/2X440_1.pdf


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## RobertHaas (Apr 26, 2019)

projectnut said:


> There should be a wiring diagram on the inside of the switch cover.  If I remember correctly it uses the standard wire numbering system.
> 
> Here's a link to the wiring diagram from Grainger:
> 
> ...


that schematic is worthless


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## RobertHaas (Apr 30, 2019)

With the help of You Tube my 102 year old lathe is now sporting a 2 HP motor. 

I bought a new drum switch and built an overhead mount for it. 

Lathe is unbelievable better in every way. 

No more stalling when I use a parting tool. Can now actually take a real cut and get through a project in a normal amount of time. 

Best improvement I have ever made to a piece of equipment.


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## matthewsx (May 22, 2019)

I upgraded my 100-year-old Seneca Falls Star 9X5 lathe with a 1hp Baldor 3 phase motor and a VFD. Makes a world of difference







Cheers,

John


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