# Somebody Else's Good Idea for Lathe Tapers



## Charles Spencer (Mar 13, 2017)

I recently ordered some of the books from the Workshop Practice Series.  Among these was #15, Workholding In The Lathe by Tubal Cain (not Mr. Pete).  I saw an excellent idea for using a boring head as an offset tail stock:




I'm going to try this.


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## willthedancer (Mar 14, 2017)

That's on my list of tools to make.
I will have mine do double duty as a boring head for the lathe spindle.

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## richz (Mar 14, 2017)

Does the support that hold the work also tilt. Very interested in making one. Has anyone else made something similar?


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## chips&more (Mar 14, 2017)

I have been using that method for decades. But not with the adjustable angling dead center. I remedy the problem of center hole angle misalignment by using a conical center drill (that's what I call it ?) instead of the standard 60° center drill…Dave.


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## rgray (Mar 14, 2017)

I have used a homemade boring head in the tailstock for taper turning. I used a 5/16 ball on each end of a piece of 1/4 HSS (with the ends dished) in the boring head 1/2 inch hole with ball bearings for the shaft to turn in. They were a yo-yo bearing.
Not a rigid set up so light cuts only.
Much better work for a grinder.
The boring head pictured looks like it has a carrier made specifically for angling the center to correct point contact.


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## silverhawk (Mar 14, 2017)

Charles Spencer said:


> I recently ordered some of the books from the Workshop Practice Series.  Among these was #15, Workholding In The Lathe by Tubal Cain (not Mr. Pete).  I saw an excellent idea for using a boring head as an offset tail stock:
> 
> View attachment 228627
> 
> ...



Are you sure that is not mr. Pete? He has published some "books" as well as his great videos, and I think that is the title of one of them.


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## savarin (Mar 14, 2017)

*Tom D. Walshaw* (1912–1998) was an engineer, author and contributor to the British magazine _Model Engineer_. Many of his magazine contributions and books were authored under the pseudonym *Tubal Cain*. The pseudonym relates to the Tubal-cain, the biblical metal worker. As Tubal Cain he made over 424 contributions to _Model Engineer_, beginning in 1971. These were mainly divided between workshop equipment articles and model stationary engine constructional articles.
Walshaw published the following under the name 'Tubal Cain'

Building the beam engine Mary. Watford, UK: Model & Allied Publications, Argus Books, 1981 (83 p).
Building the Overcrank Engine "Georgina".
Building the Williamson engine. Watford, UK: Argus Books, 1981 (85p).
Model engineers handbook. Watford, UK: Model & Allied Publications, 1981 (170 p). 2nd ed: 1986. 3rd ed: 1996.
Hardening, tempering and heat treatment. Workshop practice series no. 1. Hemel Hempstead UK: Argus Books, 1984, (124 p).
Milling operations in the lathe. Workshop practice series no. 5. London: Argus Books, 1984 (125 p).
Soldering and Brazing. Workshop practice series no. 9. Hemel Hempstead UK: Argus Books, 1985 (136 p).
Drills, Taps and Dies. Workshop practice series no. 12. Swanley, England: Nexus Special Interests, 1987 (103 p).
Workshop drawing. Workshop practice series no. 13. London: Argus Books, 1988 (110 p).
Workholding in the lathe. Workshop practice series no. 15. London: Argus Books, 1987 (111 p).
Simple workshop devices. Workshop practice series. Hemel Hempstead, UK: Argus Books, 1980 (127 p).
Spring design and manufacture. Workshop practice series no. 19. Hemel Hempstead, UK: Argus Books, 1988 (95 p).
Building simple model steam engines. Watford, UK, Model and Allied Publications, 1980 (107 p).
Building simple model steam engines. Book 2. Hemel Hempstead, UK: Nexus Special Interests Ltd., 1998 (106 p).
Lyle Peterson also known as Mr Pete and as Tubalcain produces mainly videos on all aspects of machining.
Heres the list by subject.
* Videos *
Machine Shop Tips #1 Taps 
Machine Shop Tips #2 Tapping 
Machine Shop Tips #3 Tapping 
Machine Shop Tips #4 Dies/Threading 
Machine Shop Tips #5 Dies/Threading 
Machine Shop Tips #6 Dies/Threading 
Machine Shop Tips #7 Cutting Pipe Threads 
Machine Shop Tips #8 Types of Threads - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #9 Types of Threads - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #10 Identifying Bolt Threads 
Machine Shop Tips #11 Drilling Crossholes tubalcai 
Machine Shop Tips #12 Thread Repair (male) 
Machine Shop Tips #13 Bridgeport Mill - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #14 Bridgeport Mill - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #15 Bridgeport Mill TRAMMING with SPINDLE SQUARE 
Machine Shop Tips #16 Clausing Lathe LH threading 
Machine Shop Tips #17 Threading to Shoulder 
Machine Shop Tips #18 Musing on Lathe Threading 
Machine Shop Tips #19 Sine Bar Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #20 Sine Bar (with SPINDLE SQUARE) - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #21 Micrometers - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #22 Micrometer Quiz - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #23 Internal Threading on the Lathe 
Machine Shop Tips #24 Acme Threading - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #25 Acme Threading - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #26 Transferring Holes - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #27 Transferring Holes - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #28 Hardinge Dividing Head - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #29 Hardinge Dividing Head - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #30 Facing on the Atlas Lathe - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #31 Facing on the Atlas Lathe - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #32 Turning to Dia. on the Atlas Lathe Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #33 Turning to Dia. on the Atlas Lathe Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #34 Turning to a Shoulder on Lathe 
Machine Shop Tips #35 Parting on the Lathe - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #36 Parting on the Lathe - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #37 Parting on the Lathe - Part 3 
Machine Shop Tips #38 Flame Cutting Straight - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #39 Flame Cutting Circles - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #40 Horizontal Bandsaw - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #41 Horizontal Bandsaw - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #42 Horizontal Bandsaw - Part 3 
Machine Shop Tips #43 Vertical Bandsaw - Part 4 
Machine Shop Tips #44 Vertical Bandsaw - Part 5 
Machine Shop Tips #45 Bandsaw Blades - Part 6 
Machine Shop Tips #46 Lathe Project BEARING - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #47 Lathe Project BEARING - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #48 Lathe Project BEARING - Part 3 
Machine Shop Tips #49 Lathe Project Plumb Bob - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #50 Lathe Project Plumb Bob - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #51 Lathe Project Plumb Bob - Part 3 
Machine Shop Tips #52 Buying a Lathe - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #53 Buying a Lathe - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #54 Buying a Lathe - Part 3 
Machine Shop Tips #55 Hole Layout - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #56 Hole Layout - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #57 Bridgeport Mill DRO - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #58 Bridgeport Mill DRO - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #59 Bridgeport Mill Workholding - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #60 Bridgeport Mill Workholding - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #61 Atlas Lathe Gibs - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #62 Atlas Lathe Gibs - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #63 Clausing Lathe Gibs - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #64 Clausing Lathe Gibs - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #65 Lathe Project Pulley - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #66 Lathe Project Pulley - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #67 Lathe Project Pulley - Part 3 
Machine Shop Tips #68 Atlas Milling Attachment - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #69 Atlas Milling Attachment - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #70 Atlas Lathe Attachment - Part 3 
Machine Shop Tips #71 Atlas Lathe Taper Turning - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #72 Atlas Lathe Taper Turning - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #73 Turning a Morse Taper - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #74 Turning a Morse Taper - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #75 Measuring Dovetails on the Atlas Lathe 
Machine Shop Tips #76 Milling a Dovetail on the Bridgeport Part 1 of 2 
Machine Shop Tips #77 Cutting a Dovetail on Bridgeport Mill Part 2 of 2 
Machine Shop Tips #78 Aligning Lathe Centers - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #79 Aligning Lathe Centers - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #80 Miller Plasma Cutter tricks - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #81 Miller Plasma Cutter tricks - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #82 Bought a used South Bend Lath 
Machine Shop Tips #83 Custom Power Feed for Atlas Lathe 
Machine Shop Tips #84 Introduction to Identifying Metals 
Machine Shop Tips #85 Identifying Metals - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #86 Identifying Metals - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #87 Identifying Metals - Part 3 
Machine Shop Tips #92 Tramming a Drill Press 
Machine Shop Tips #93 Checking the RPMs on Shop Machines 
Machine Shop Tips #94 Grinding Lathe Centers With Dumore Grinder 
Machine Shop Tips #95 Making a Test Bar - Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #96 Making a Test Bar - Part 2 
Machine Shop Tips #97 Dressing Your Bench Grinder Wheels 
Machine Shop Tips #98 Grinding a Lathe Threading Tool 
Machine Shop Tips #99 Aligning Lathe Centers TEST BAR METHOD 
Machine Shop Tips #100 - Ways to Tap a Hole Straight Part 1 
Machine Shop Tips #101 - Ways to Tap a Hole Straight Part 2 
* Foundry Videos: Casting, Coremaking, Foundry and Patternmaking*
FOUNDRY CASTING Making a Sand Mold - Part 1 
FOUNDRY CASTING Making a Sand Mold - Part 2 
FOUNDRY CASTING Molding with a Split Pattern - Part 3 
FOUNDRY WORK Melting & Pouring - Part 4 
FOUNDRY WORK Mold Casting Shakeout - Part 5 
FOUNDRY WORK molding irregular parting line Part 6a 
FOUNDRY WORK casting irregular line parting Part 6b 
FOUNDRY PATTERN MAKING Steam Engine - Part 1 
FOUNDRY PATTERN MAKING Steam Engine - Part 2 
FOUNDRY PATTERN MAKING Steam Engine metal casting - Part 3 
FOUNDRY PATTERN MAKING Steam Engine metal casting - Part 4 
FOUNDRY PATTERN MAKING Steam Engine metal casting - Part 5 
FOUNDRY PATTERN MAKING Steam Engine cores - Part 6 
* Machine Shop Videos *
BRIDGEPORT MILL Tramming or Indicating the Head to Zero 
BRIDGEPORT MILL indicating the vise 
TOOL BIT GRINDING #1 South Bend Atlas Lathe 
TOOL BIT GRINDING #2 South Bend Clausing logan Lathe 
TOOL BIT GRINDING #3 South Bend Clausing logan Lathe 
LATHE TOOL BIT GRINDING #4 South Bend Clausing logan 
THREADING on the CLAUSING LATHE South Bend - Part 1 
THREADING on the CLAUSING LATHE Atlas Logan Part 2 
MORSE TAPERS on Atlas & Clausing Lathes 
South Bend & Atlas LATHE TOOL HOLDERS 
Three Jaw Chucks on Atlas Clausing Hardinge Lathes - Part 1 
Three Jaw Chucks on Logan Clausing Hardinge Lathes - Part 2 
SCREW BACKLASH on Atlas Clausing Lathe 
USING THE EDGEFINDER ON THE BRIDGEPORT MILL 
CUTTING A WOODRUFF KEYWAY on the BRIDGEPORT MILL 
CUTTING A STRAIGHT KEYWAY with BRIDGEPORT MILL 
BROACHING A KEYWAY IN A PULLEY 
TAILSTOCK CENTERS on South Bend Clausing Atlas LATHES 
TAILSTOCK CHUCKS for the Atlas Clausing South Bend Lathes 
TAILSTOCK ALIGNMENT on Clausing Atlas South Bend Lathes - Part 1 
TAILSTOCK ALIGNMENT on LOGAN HARDINGE South Bend Lathes - Part 2 
Threading with a Procunier Tapping Head 
Bridgeport Mill part1 Indicating a Hole prior to boring 
PARTS OF THE CLAUSING METAL LATHE 
BORING ON THE BRIDGEPORT MILL - Part 2 Criterion Head 
BORING ON THE BRIDGEPORT MILL - Part 3 Criterion Head 
THE BRIDGEPORT MILL - Part 4 Drilling a Bolt Circle 
Threading Big Holes with an Enco Tapping Head 
The Use and Care of Drill Bits - Part 1 
The Use and Care of Drill Bits- Part 2 
The Use and Care of Drill Bits - Part 3 
SPLICING A LEATHER SOUTH BEND LATHE BELT 
Parts & Operation of the Logan Lathe 
Turning a Taper on the Logan Lathe 
The Use and Care of Reamers - Part 1 
The Use and Care of Reamers - Part 2 
The Use and Care of Reamers - Part 3 
* Steam & Stirling Engine Videos *
Solenoid Magnet Motor Like Steam Engine 
Stirling Hot Air Engine - Part 1 
Stirling Hot Air Engine - Part 2 
Steam Engine Locomotive Teaching Aid Demo 
Electro Magnet Motor Mesco Avery Patent 
Robinson Hot Air Engine 
Wobbler Steam Engine Overhead Crank 
Electro Magnet Coil Engine (motor) #3 
Stirling Hot Air Engine runs on Snow 
Double Solenoid Electric Engine Motor 
Over and Under Stirling Engine Hot Air 
Stuart #9 Steam Engine Running w/Governor 
Steam Engine - 2 Cylinder 
Steam Ball Engine Aeolipile Hero of Alexandria 
Stirling Hot Air Engine Water Cooled 
Principles of Stirling Hot Air Engines 
Hit and Miss Gas Engine McCormick-Deering - Part 1 
Solenoid Magnet Engine Electric Motor 
Jensen Model Toy Steam Engine Under Power 
Cretors Model Popcorn Wagon Steam Engine 
Elmer's Engines Steam Model 2 Cyl - Part 1 
Elmer's Engines Steam Ring Gear - Part 2 
* Building a Model Steam Engine *
Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 1 
Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 2 
Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 3 
Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 4 
Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 5 
Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 6 
Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 7 
Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 8 
Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 9 
Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 10 
* Metal Shaper Model *
Metal Shaper Model - Part 1 
Metal Shaper Model - Part 2 
Metal Shaper Model - Part 3


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## FOMOGO (Mar 15, 2017)

Have seen similar before. The angle adjustable center feature seems like it would improve stability. Mike



rgray said:


> The boring head pictured looks like it has a carrier made specifically for angling the center to correct point contact.


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## Kernbigo (Mar 15, 2017)

I use a ball bearing center in the headstock and this adjustable center in the tailstock


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## savarin (Mar 15, 2017)

Kernbigo said:


> I use a ball bearing center in the headstock and this adjustable center in the tailstock


Am I correct in thinking that the ball bearing replaces a dead centre but still requires a dog to drive the shaft?


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## Kernbigo (Mar 15, 2017)

yes you are write, the ball bearing goes in the headstock end and you use a face plate and a dog to drive it . If you only off set the taper a small amount you can use s pointed center in the headstock end. It works great.


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## Mutt (Mar 18, 2017)

Kernbigo said:


> I use a ball bearing center in the headstock and this adjustable center in the tailstock




 Can ya expound on how exactly to use your set up? I would like to cut tapers on my Griz 4003, that has no taper attatchment


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## Kernbigo (Mar 18, 2017)

The one ball bearing center goes in the headstock if you need to cut a taper that are are kind of drastic, other wise for a mild taper just use s normal center and a face plate and a dog to drive it . The adjustable center is put in the tailstock horizontal, and is adjusted for the taper you want, you do not adjust the tailstock at all.


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## Mutt (Mar 18, 2017)

is this set up available somewhere?


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## Okapi (Mar 18, 2017)

Charles Spencer said:


> I recently ordered some of the books from the Workshop Practice Series.  Among these was #15, Workholding In The Lathe by Tubal Cain (not Mr. Pete).  I saw an excellent idea for using a boring head as an offset tail stock:
> 
> View attachment 228627
> 
> ...


Hi,
It's a very good solution for precise conical turning, with Pythagore tables you can make very accurate angles, a cheap solution is to recycle a boring head made with a cylindrical attachment for a revolver lathe mounted on a Morse taper recycled drill for example, you can found them for less than a half of a Morse taper model, normally it's 18 or 20mm., I suppose you have the same sort of standards diameters in inches.
Have a nice day.
Pierre


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## Kernbigo (Mar 18, 2017)

the co. i used to work for had them to adjust the center height on there thread grinders. You can put it in either direction horizontal or vertical depending on what you want it to do. The name marked on it is taper-tail it is a purchased item.


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## Round in circles (Mar 18, 2017)

Mutt, this eBay number 2528171598 is a type of off center line live center.

Using just your lathe if you don't have a mill , you can make one based on the same principle but so it fits in the tailstock taper 

Does it give you an idea of how you may be able / can make one using :- a purchased new Morse taper , a dead center Morse taper cut & bored at the widest blunt end & a short turned up off center axle with two sealed bearings to join things up ?

 Perhaps it can be locked to the right taper by using graduations that line up & a locking screw in a sleeve or a simple screw thread with lock nuts to lock things rigid  once the graduations line up .

 There will be a need to ensure the offset is kept located horizontal to the lathe bed & on center I'd use a cut down big darning needle held in the headstock chuck to align it accurately .


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## Charles Spencer (Mar 19, 2017)

I haven't done this yet, but I think I'll proceed like this:

1.  My boring head has a screw thread to attach a straight or R8 shank.  I plan to make an MT2 shank and thread it for the boring head.

2.  Make a short shaft to fit in the holes on the boring head.  Mill a flat tab on the end and drill a hole through it.

3.  Turn the center and mill two slots with holes to fit over the shaft tab.  Screw through them to tighten down at the desired angle.

4.  Round the nose on an MT3 center for the head stock.  I don't see the need for a ball bearing as the center will turn with the work.


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## BRIAN (Mar 19, 2017)

On the Boring head shown in the photograph  the centre is fitted in the hole that the boring tool usually fits the swing action  allows the  tool to be roughly adjusted up to 90°
 most heads now have 3 holes to cover this option.
 Brian.


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## Charles Spencer (Mar 20, 2017)

Charles Spencer said:


> My boring head has a screw thread to attach a straight or R8 shank. I plan to make an MT2 shank and thread it for the boring head.



Actually, I just found an MT2 shank on ebay that will fit my boring head so I just went ahead and ordered it:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300722736815


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## Tozguy (Mar 20, 2017)

Charles Spencer said:


> 4.  Round the nose on an MT3 center for the head stock.  I don't see the need for a ball bearing as the center will turn with the work.



The work will turn with the centre but there will be a slight amount of rocking of the work on the centre.


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## benmychree (Jun 28, 2017)

chips&more said:


> I have been using that method for decades. But not with the adjustable angling dead center. I remedy the problem of center hole angle misalignment by using a conical center drill (that's what I call it ?) instead of the standard 60° center drill…Dave.


It's called a bell center drill.


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## Mark_f (Jun 28, 2017)

I posted a lathe taper attachment that I made quite a while back, from an old drill pad. It is in moderator projects. It is simple to make and works great. Since the post, I have added a fine adjustment and a scale marked in degrees.


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## ezduzit (Jun 28, 2017)

This is such a great idea!


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## Tozguy (Jun 29, 2017)

Mark, any chance we could see some pictures or a link?


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## Mark_f (Jun 29, 2017)

Here you go.


http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/lathe-taper-attachment.27636/


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## maker of things (Jun 29, 2017)

I don't remember if I saw this in the workshop series or where, but I did buy a boring head and matching mt taper arbor for my tailstock with the plan to do this...someday.


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## Zathros (Jul 1, 2017)

mark_f said:


> Here you go.
> 
> 
> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/lathe-taper-attachment.27636/



Love that making parts from scrap or old parts. Costs almost nothing other than grinding the cutting tools at best.



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## The Liberal Arts Garage (Jul 8, 2017)

Mutt said:


> is this set up available somewhere?


I believe there may be a weird female cup  center for the
tail stock (odd internal grind) for the tail stock,jus to  imply precision.
            BLJHB


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## The Liberal Arts Garage (Jul 8, 2017)

savarin said:


> *Tom D. Walshaw* (1912–1998) was an engineer, author and contributor to the British magazine _Model Engineer_. Many of his magazine contributions and books were authored under the pseudonym *Tubal Cain*. The pseudonym relates to the Tubal-cain, the biblical metal worker. As Tubal Cain he made over 424 contributions to _Model Engineer_, beginning in 1971. These were mainly divided between workshop equipment articles and model stationary engine constructional articles.
> Walshaw published the following under the name 'Tubal Cain'
> 
> Building the beam engine Mary. Watford, UK: Model & Allied Publications, Argus Books, 1981 (83 p).
> ...


Big Thumb Up for our History
    BLJHB.


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## Buffalo20 (Jul 8, 2017)

My grandfather use to cut tapers on the lathe, using a milling machine boring head in the tailstock, to give a precision offset.


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