# Question about old Burke #4



## DavidAC (May 1, 2012)

Ok people.
Please bear with me I have tried the Burke Yahoo group but it seems very quiet.​



I have a vertical mill which I had not used very much, it was put into storage
after my divorce and 4 years later....it's lost.
I managed to get my Myford super 7 back (some of it)although not enough to do
the job I needed to do.
I wondered if there was a local model engineer near me who may do it and typed
in "lathe" and my village name.
A lathe for £200 was advertised as local, phoned up and he turned out to live
about 1/4 mile away (that's 5 houses away).

I ended up buying a Portass Dreadnought, more accessories than you could point a
stick and was told I could buy it as long as I took the "bloody heavy old pillar
drill in the corner".

That heavy old pillar drill in the corner turned out to be a Burke #4 mill. (a
quick and messy composite picture in the photos section in Davids album)

I am OK on a lathe but have little milling experience/knowledge on machines of
this vintage. Have searched for stuff all over the internet and found this site.

I am mainly trying to find out if there is anything vital missing and any other
information would be appreciated. These seem fairly unusual in the UK and I
don't hold out much hope of getting original parts.

Any plates on it seem long gone so I have no serial numbers for dating etc and
need someone with a knowledge to give me a "rough" date.

Am hoping that this is a viable restoration project, and because of its
original owner (RAF pilot who completed one of the last bombing runs over
Dresden) I would just restore what I have, even if it isnt particularly usable.

Thanks​


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## ScrapMetal (May 1, 2012)

Very neat bunch of machinery there.

I personally don't know squat about the Burke #4 but I did find a couple of resources that might be useful.

Here is a web page with many detailed pictures of a restored Burke: http://jamesriser.com/Machinery/Burke/MillingMachine.html

Better yet, here is a U.S. Army tech manual for the #4 in a .pdf file: http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2001_retired_files/BurkeNo4ArmyTM.pdf

Hope that helps,

-Ron


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## DavidAC (May 2, 2012)

Thanks Ron.
I had previously seen those but at the time of reading knew even less. With a few more readings after your reply, they made more sense.

The number 4 I have seems even earlier than the two mentioned but I am getting there.

I know I am missing the one casting that stabilises the end of the long tool Arbor but think I may make one.

It's amazing how smooth everything is.

Managed to find a couple of small items for it that were hiding in some of the old boxes.

Any more info would be appreciated.

Thanks

David


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## AR1911 (May 2, 2012)

I restored one of those a few years ago, and then sold it at the 90% point when I decided I could not get the other 10%, which amounted to changing it from rack feed to screws.
Yours is missing a lot of parts - maybe half. I think the best education you can get is go through the photo gallery in the Burke Yahoo group, and look at complete machines.
As a restoration project in the UK it would be a daunting task.


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## DavidAC (May 3, 2012)

I have managed to cobble together a belt and pulley and managed t to use it as superbly solid vertical drill. Next step is to put a motor the other side and get my collet chuck in. Seems to be enough there to at least use it as a mill. Seem to be some quite major differences between #4's depending on the vintage. Does anybody have an approximate date range for one of this configuration?
David


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## AR1911 (May 3, 2012)

I only know of two major differences in #4s:  
1 - plain (very early) or Timken spindle bearings
2 - Ratchet or leadscrew table
3 - Flat belt or v-belt spindle pulley

that's about it. You read the writeup on lathes.co.uk, right?


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## Benji (Jun 16, 2012)

There is a Burke Yahoo group.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BurkeMills/
There are two manuals there. Some parts are still available from D.C. Morrison 
http://www.dcmorrison.com

There is a lot of information there. I have a Burke #4. I have had it now for 8 yeas or so. It will do everything I need it to do. The limitations are the single slot in the table which can make clamping a task  at times. I add an auxiliary table at times which has 3 slots. Little machine shop sells these. 

You seem to be missing the table drive and the motor mounting. 

There is a vertical head available. I have one but I dont like it. It uses too much vertical distance.
Some have adapted a Bridgeport M head. I have one and am working on the adaption. 

The ratchet or lever operated table is actually a Burke #3. I have one of those also. 

I recently ran into a Burke #4 that had roller bearings. These were PO, I believe, installed.

Any details you need just post.

Attached is a picture of my machine just after I restored it.
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 37639
View attachment 37640


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## DavidAC (Jun 16, 2012)

Benji. Thank you.
That really is a helpful post. 

I'm not going to worry about the motorised table drive as for the jobs I do, hand drive is fine. I have almost finished making a mounting for the drive so it's all going well.

On the #4 pictures I have seen, all have had the two hand wheels offset slightly while both of mine are at 90° to the table. I don't know if this is indicative of an older #4.

If you could post a couple more pictures of the back of your machine, that would be very useful to me.

I'm not concerned about getting it back to "original" just getting it restored to something that does what I want it to do and I'm not far off now. 

One problem is the b&a taper. Practically impossible to get anything for that in the UK so I'm trying to decide what to convert it to.

Considering it didn't actually cost me anything, I don't mind spending some money on getting it working. Particularly as it didn't cost me anything in the first place.

Doing a little digging into its history I am led to believe that it was brought to the UK by 
 USAF ground crew in the second war and swopped for a BSA motorcycle and so just its heritage makes it worth keeping!
David


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## Benji (Jun 16, 2012)

Jeff Beck at www.tools4cheap.net carries B&S #9 collets and he will ship to the UK. 

I am attaching a drawing, that was made by Irby Jones from the yahoo Burke group. It shows the BS#9 in comparison to a number of other collets. It appears that an R-8 is a possibility.


I do not have a picture of the back of my Burke #4 BUT I am posting right and left side pictures and a picture of the back of a Burke #3 I also have. 
The back of the #3 is similar but it has no table drive. 

The two Burke 4 pictures were taken before restoration. 

Does the spindle on your Burke have roller bearings or bronze bearings?


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## DavidAC (Jun 16, 2012)

Thanks Benji.
That really is a massive help. My 4 has the bronze bearings and so R-8 would seem to be the logical way to go.
I think I know someone locally who is able to do the conversion as well so that will be Mondays phone calls.
I have been on the burke group before but hadn't seen that drawing - had missed it somehow.......but my brain is getting sodden by the mixture of Myford, Burke, Portass and a JCB 3C i'm also working on at the same time.
David


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## DavidAC (Jun 17, 2012)

Hi.
I have put up a picture of my #4, as you can see the height and forward/back handles come from the knee at 90 degrees where on all the other pictures of a 4, one appears to be offset.
Has anybody else seen one like this and does it date it to a particular range.
Thanks
David


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## Benji (Jun 17, 2012)

You have a very old Burke, since it has the bronze bearings. It may even be "Pre-Burke" I blieve the company was called US Machine tool, or something like that, early on. 
Here is a picture of a similar one on the Yahoo Burke site. 
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/4881196/sn/1622681085/name/IMG_0157.jpg

You will need to be a Member to view it.


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