# Back to the basics



## Wagon173 (Dec 22, 2012)

I've been reading on several forums about how not many new people make  it to this hobby and as one of the new guys, I can completely understand why.  I just spent 600  bucks on a lathe and I'm looking at several thousand in tooling just to  set up the lathe after reading several posts on several forums about tooling you "Need" to start doing lathe work.  Particularly model engine lathe work for me.  Even though I don't know jack about machining, I've been a diesel mechanic for years so I understand  that there is a difference in tools that make a job possible and tools  that make a job easier.  For instance, I could probably rebuild a 350  with a set of combo wrenches, screwdrivers, allan wrenches, a hammer, pry bar, a brass  drift, and a couple punches and a decent set of pliers.  That's not to  say that I like to go that route, but that would be what I would  recommend to someone who wants to rebuild/work on one who is just  starting out.  Then I'd say if they enjoyed it, to buy a nice socket set, maybe some stubby wrenches to go with them and after they've rebuilt a few engines that way, they'll have a better idea of what's out there and what they would like to invest in.  I'd leave the $200 set of swiveling ratcheting wrenches out.   Oil filter wrenches, piston ring compressors, tensioner gauges, spanner  wrenches, valve compressors, impact tooling, pully pullers, crows feet, all that crazy stuff that us mechanics have and tend to forget that it's taken us years to accumulate.  That said, I have a decent idea of what I actually need to start doing lathe work, but am looking for any opinions of basic tooling that is affordable.  I have already ordered a milling  attachment,needle files, Some carbide cutters as  well as some HSS blanks.  A small set of end mills.  I scored a 0-6" set  of starett mics on CL for a hundred bucks (Don't **** your wives off,  gentlemen.  Seriously, I felt bad for the guy.  I suppose if I ever run into him, I'll sell him his stuff back.  But she was selling them whether it was me or someone else).  Some boring bars and cut off's.  I already have drill bits and taps dyes ect from working on trucks.  I want a set of jobber bits since my lathe is small, but again that's a want over a need.  So any additional thoughts that I may be overlooking would be much appreciated!  Thanks, guys!


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## irishwoodsman (Dec 22, 2012)

if you are completely new at this lets start with basics, books on how to run a lathe especially one for your lathe next lathe safety your lathe can kill you if you dont know what your doing, then watch some vids on youtube made by mr. pete he has some great vids on the basics, start small and work your way up, there is alot of nice tools for your lathe that is second hand or used and there is some cheap tools out there that works great and are new to serve the purpose untill you get to the point that it becomes a money maker for you then you can add top of line tools to your inventory if you wish, there is alot of great members on here that can answer most all your questions because they have done it for a living, we all have started new at some point so dont let that hinder you, ive been at it 3 yrs and in that 3 yrs my math has become way better than what it was in school and i can make and repair things that i used to have to pay someone to do, enjoy that lathe and many a happy chips to you) mac


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## rebush (Dec 22, 2012)

Wagon173: Sounds like you're headed in the right direction. I'm a beginner also. I've been adding to my tool collection on a as needed basis for the project I want to do. One item that I bought that has become invaluable is A 2 inch travel magnetic back dial indicator from CDCO (they have alot of stuff reasonably priced and I've been satisfied with all my purchases so far) it's my poor mans DRO. My precision has improved greatly since using it. I haven't had much luck with carbide tooling much prefer HSS plus I enjoy grinding my own tooling. Being a mechanic you know it's better to pay for quality tools once than to buy cheap 2-3 times. What brand lathe did you buy? The You Tube site is MrPete222. Lots of information there, plus he's enjoyable to listen to. Good luck. If I can help you out with any other information don't hesitate to let me know. Roger


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## swatson144 (Dec 22, 2012)

Just like you said about engines and getting started Just buy the basics and get/make the special stuff as you see a need. Just as surely as there is always something a mechanic "need" so it is with us. Just when you think it's pretty much covered you need something else.

IMO starting out you need the smattering of cutters you bought, a good tool grinding wheel for your grinder (stock gray wheels won't work well), hone stone, dial indicator & base, cheap DI with mag back, fishtail gauge, protractor, angle finding stuff, wrenches modified just for the lathe, a good set of feeler gauges, a cheap set of feeler gauges to shim tooling, oils IAW lathe manual, cutting fluid, Good hack saw blades, a piece of wood to protect the ways while hack sawing or changing chucks. You have the mics but still need some telescoping gauges,  a caliper (vernier, dial or digital), rolling papers (for edge finding,  I think that covers the very basics with the cost considered.

Stuff to snap up if you stumble across a deal;
Thread files, pitch gauges, Heck just about any gauge you don't have, edge finders, inside mics, cutting tools, counter sinks, a GOOD chuck for the tail stock, a small straight arbor chuck to compliment the other chucks, tool post grinder, 1 1/2" boring bar. well those are just some of the things.

Steve


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## Wagon173 (Dec 22, 2012)

Irishwoodsman, thanks for the tip on Mr. Pete.  I'll check him out tonight.  I don't really plan on this ever making me money.  I originally got the lathe to fab parts on a small ambient pressure submarine I'm designing.  As I was looking into it, I came across some of the small V8's and that was possibly one of the coolest things I've seen!  It really spiked my interest in getting into machining.  I've watched several how to videos from MIT and read the army's machining manual.  I'm about to start on the navy one.  Between that and the guys at HMEM is where I've gotten most of my advice on what I've gotten so far.  I figured I'd send it for a run through another forum though.  Between lurking around these two forums you guys have taught me possibly more than my brain should on board in such a short time haha.  

Roger, yea I've looked into some of those dro's from a couple sources and even seen a guy make his own out of the 10 dollar HF calipers.  Pretty neat stuff!  I may give it a shot once I get home in a couple weeks if I don't break the bank with other tools and I'm absolutely addicted to scuba diving so two expensive hobbies could prove iffy.  I got the carbides though cause they were reasonably priced and I plan on working with a little bit of iron and some stainless.  I'd planned on the HSS on aluminum and other soft metals.  As far as tools go, I'm on the same page to a degree.  I don't like buying garbage unless I have a job where I know I will be using them around harsh chemicals or having to misuse them.  That said, I LOVE harbor freight for some things and others I leave well enough alone.  But the only time I buy snap-on is from a grage sale.  Great tools but not worth 300 for a set of screwdrivers.  There are a lot of machining tools though that I'm still trying to figure that out.  What is top of the line.  What is bottom of the barrel.  What is cheap but still decent.  I'm getting a decent feel for it though.  I honestly don't remember the brand of lathe I bought.  It's the one from Harbor freight.  The 7x10.  It seemed to have decent reviews and was small enough to fit in our house.  The price was a huge plus since I don't know if I'll wind up not liking it and only use it for sub parts or If I really do fall head over heels for building model engines, I can just sell it and get a bigger one.  Sadly I have had it for a month and haven't gotten to use it as I'm still in Afghanistan.  I should be home in about a week and some change though!  

Steve, thanks thats pretty much exactly what I was looking for!  Is there any sort of wheel material in particular that works the best for grinding or do I just need to get a finer grain?  I'm also not familiar with the rolling papers.  I guess that's going to be my homework tonight along with the Mr. Pete videos.  I have a few sets of nice thread files.  They come in pretty handy when I screw up the end of the threads especially on suspension jobs.  I'll definitely keep my eye out for the other stuff you mentioned too since I go yard/garage sale and swap meet tool hunting religiously!  

Thank you guys very much for the info.  Very solid!  
-Brandon


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## Sundossa12 (Dec 22, 2012)

Good thread. Ive also been watch some of the stuff on YouTube. Easy to see how this will become expensive quick...


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## swatson144 (Dec 22, 2012)

Rolling/cigarette papers are about .001 thick so they make a poor mans edge finder. Move the tool in until it just drags on the paper and you are about 1 tho away. Nice to be able to find the edge to bump a shoulder back etc.

Wheels, I use the Norton 38A white wheels 8" in 60grit I hardness. http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...ement-grinding-wheels-over-stock-grey-wheels? is a discussion of some tool grinding wheels.

Steve


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## DaveD (Dec 22, 2012)

For us 'hobby' guys machining is just like any other hobby. A money pit with a very steep slope entry point. Hard to think of one cheap hobby if you get into it more than just a little bit.

My approach was to first get a mill. I then went through all the cheaper off shore tool catalogs, plus your MSC, Enco, Travers Tool, etc. and made a laundry list of what I could possibly use to do future projects. Then as funds became available , and/or killer deals came up I bought the tooling.  Even if I didn't need it at that time. 3 years later I'm decently tooled. eBay was either my savior or downfall, however you want to look at it.

A few years later it was lathe time. Just stumbled on a used takisawa 14x40, D1-6 chuck with Aloris tool post at scrap metal prices. Now came a very slippery slope down Mt. Everest. Built a new list. 

Along the way I have managed to upgrade to a real Kurt vise for the mill and a 6 jaw set-tru chuck for the lathe. Saving my pennies for a DRO for the lathe. :whistle:


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## Wagon173 (Dec 24, 2012)

Thanks for the info, Steve.  I ordered one of the wheels for my grinder.  I think I may start looking for a new grinder at a swap meet or something when I get home though.  I really don't want to have to change wheels every time I use it since I'll be using it for regular grinding, grinding cutting tools, I love my wire wheel for welding and I'd like to keep a polishing wheel on there too.  Being stationed in Washington state and their new approach to marijuana laws, I'm sure it won't be hard to find papers lol.  hew:

Dave, yea it seems hard to find inexpensive hobbies to really get into.  On the flip side though, with most other hobbies you can still order the really cheap gear/equipment and while it isn't cutting edge, it will still serve it's purpose.  Like with diving I buy the cheap and simple scuba equipment and spend the money I saved on all the top name brand bells and whistles on certifications.  I was able to get certified at an entry level and get all the equipment to be self sustained for under $1000 for all new gear.  Granted I've dumped several thousand into gear over the last few years, but initially I was able to go blow bubbles without my gear hindering me in any way for pretty resonable prices.  The money pit is in books and tuition when you decide you want nitrox, advanced, master, rescue, technical, divemaster ect.  I'm currently studying for my instructors cert.  When you buy cheap or used equipment it's easy enough to test.  Does it breathe well?  Does it inflate?  Does it keep you warm?  With machining though, it seems like if you buy something too cheap, especially that has to do with measuring, squaring or angle finding, it could throw your project off.  So that's where I'm trying to do a little homework is in, what is a good deal, what is too expensive for it's purpose, and what is just plain bad equipment.  I guess that's something that has to come with a bit of experience and trial and error since you're dealing with something that deals in such small details.  

Thanks again for the info though, guys!  I really really appreciate it!  
-Brandon


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## Richard King (Dec 24, 2012)

Brandon...

I want to thank you for your love and service to the country.  It will be my honor to help you in anyway I can.  Being away at Christmas must be hard, but please remember many of us are so grateful to you and your fellow service men / women out there in harms way protecting us.
You are my hero!!

I just bought a mag base at Harbor freight for $17.00...what a deal....  Thanks again and Merry Christmas.  And be sure to tell your wife, that she is special too.  God Bless !


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## xalky (Dec 24, 2012)

My "desire" to own a lathe and milling machine came at around the age of 20 when i was working in a machine fabrication shop. It took me 27 years to realize that dream, I'm 47 now.  I've accumulated 10s of thousands of dollars worth of auto mechanic tooling, and some welding equipment in that time. Life has a way of putting things on hold, but eventually, if the dream is nurtured, it happens. Early this year I bought a used SB9 lathe and a used Bridgeport, I bought lots of tooling for both and I built a cnc plasma cutter pretty much from scratch. Now I'm living the dream. The ultimate scenario for me is to start making a living building things in my shop..metal art, one off parts, etc... and selling these things for income. 

If you got the desire to do it, it will happen. It helps to have a supportive mate, which i do.

Keeping the dream alive!
Happy Holidays
Marcel


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## Wagon173 (Dec 25, 2012)

Richard, thanks for the appreciation.  It means a lot to us to hear it from time to time.  Being here for Christmas isn't too bad once you get used to it.  I've been in for 8 years and have gotten to spend 1 christmas at home.  We're in the process of going back home right now though so we have sent all of our privates and first time deployers home early while us NCO's take care of training the new unit.  They haven't made it yet, but at least they're on their way so they don't dwell on being stuck here on Christmas.  I remember that first one and it was rough.  This will be the last one though as I'll be getting out in March.  I'm still newly married and being single in the army is a blast but the prospect of starting a family and maintaining this career path is a little scary.  To be honest, getting out and starting over when I'm half way to retirement scares the hell out of me too but I have the GI Bill so I should be able to deal with being a 27 year old freshman haha.  

Marcel, yea I seem to run through hobbies.  I don't just dabble, I usually go the "Go big or go home" route, but I'll develop a hobby and then 3 or 4 years down the road something else will spike my interest.  With diving, there isn't a lot left to do besides keep diving, which I do constantly.  But when I get my instructors certification I'll have more or less reached the top.  There are a few levels above it that I don't really care to deal with the politics of, so it's time to get a new time killer between diving rather than studying diving.  Before diving it was skydiving and before that it was wood working and cars and before that it was playing guitar.  The only one I don't really keep up with is the guitar.  I've kinda lost interest in that one.  Since I was in diapers, though, I've had more fun taking my toys apart and seeing how they worked than I did playing with them so I'm amazed that it's taken me this long to take the plunge into purchasing machining equipment.  You're right though, the supportive spouse seems to be critical.  I'm in the process of designing and building a small ambient pressure submarine and just about everybody thinks I'm nuts.  Kelly has yet to bash it though or shoot it down in any way.  Though sometimes I'm sure she thinks I'm crazy haha.  When I'm cruising the reef though and seeing all my friends who are wet and cold after the dive, I'll have the last laugh!   :drink2:  I've never had much interest in making a living at what I like to do with my spare time for fear of growing tired of it.  As was the case with automotive maintenance.  I've put some thought into giving scuba lessons here and there as a suplemental income or possibly opening a part time dive locker when I get home but that's about as far as I want to take it, I think.  As for machining unless it's a really good friend or family I'm fairly certain that I'll keep my parts to myself lol.  By the time I'm 80 I hope to have a huge shop bursting at the seems with contraptions that I've made even if they haven't been used for decades!  Good luck to you though in turning it into a career!  At least you'll have a job that you love and can work whenever you want to!  

Thanks for the kind words and Merry Christmas to both of you!  (or Happy Holidays if you're a PC type person.  I'm not)


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## Squatchhhammer (Mar 20, 2014)

I think the more experience members should do a few articles in this area for beginners. It really does help knowing the full list of basic's you would need for tooling for either mill or lathe work. Also one on machine purchasing and what to look for what levels of machining would be nice too.


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## CluelessNewB (Mar 20, 2014)

Price of entry isn't that much different than other hobbies.  Boats (break out another thousand), snow machines, motorcycles, golf, skiing, hunting, scuba, ham radio...


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## tertiaryjim (Mar 20, 2014)

I worked many years as a industrial mechanic, millwright, and machinist. 
Being a bit of a tool junky I bought stuff I wasn't required to have and tools I didn't even need.
Gotta do something with em now.
Well, 40 years of collecting is a big head start and I sympathize with those of you just starting out.
It is a most gratifying hobby and I would suggest that you take it easy on the tool purchases.
As you work and learn what you need for your projects then you can pick items up. Think of what you want to do and plan the machine work from setup to completion.
Watch for REALLY good deals and then you might justify a splurge or get an item that you might not need for a couple years.
Lotta folks financially burn themselves out in the first year or two.


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## Wagon173 (Mar 21, 2014)

Tert, you seem to have pretty well nailed it.  The learning curve has been pretty steep and while I'm not yet an expert, I'm on my way :nuts: lol. I've learned that it's pretty easy sometimes to get carried away with stuff you think you need but when you take a step back and think, there is almost always a way around your problem.  If nothing else, you have machining/fabrication equipment of some sort if you're getting into this hobby, so use it and make what you need.  I've had to make several jigs and fixtures and cutting bits so far.  I've learned to love estate sales, also!  Not that I didn't before, but I only did auto and wood work before.  Now I actually know what that box of lathe tools is that is marked at $10.  I think I'm going to set up a will specifying that in the event of my death, and not until, my wife will be given the combination to a safety deposit box which will contain a list of what my tools ACTUALLY cost....  not what they cost at a yard sale or what I told her I paid at the "sale" they were having lol


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