# 4 1/2 morse taper



## mce5802 (Feb 6, 2015)

I was just wondering if anyone had an idea where I could find a 4 1/2 Morse taper adapter sleeve or just somethin with a 4 1/2 mt shank I could cut off and reuse to make an adapter. My ancient Reed lathe, as near as I can tell, has this taper in the spindle. I've heard that some Clausing lathes had it too so maybe someone manufactures them still. I've had a search on eBay for quite a while with only one showing up and I missed out on it. I've checked the major supply houses as well. Maybe someone knows of another vendor. Thanks in advance.


----------



## cathead (Feb 6, 2015)

My guess is that it would be a difficult item to find.  On the other hand, 
it would not be very difficult to make one if you have a taper attachment
or even with the offset tail stock method.  I will look in the Machinery's
Handbook and see if I can find some dimensional information on the
4 1/2 Morse taper for you.          

It,s now a few minutes later and there is no mention of a 4 1/2 Morse
taper in the 11th Edition of the Machinery's Handbook.  Do you know
for sure it is a 4 1/2 MT taper?  If not, it might be some other type
of taper used like Brown and Sharpe or Jarno ETC.




mce5802 said:


> I was just wondering if anyone had an idea where I could find a 4 1/2 Morse taper adapter sleeve or just something with a 4 1/2 mt shank I could cut off and reuse to make an adapter. My ancient Reed lathe, as near as I can tell, has this taper in the spindle. I've heard that some Clausing lathes had it too so maybe someone manufactures them still. I've had a search on eBay for quite a while with only one showing up and I missed out on it. I've checked the major supply houses as well. Maybe someone knows of another vendor. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Feb 6, 2015)

there is MT4 1/2 tooling, they are like finding hens' teeth.
i have searched for a couple years on and off for them.
no luck yet- you'll need a good eye to spot them they are deceptively similar to MT4 and MT5 and can easily be mistaken.

nobody that has them seems to know what they are,
 so they would generally be rusty or in a pile of other tooling from days gone by.

i hope you have better luck than i in finding them)


----------



## darkzero (Feb 6, 2015)

cathead said:


> there is no mention of a 4 1/4 Morse
> taper in the 11th Edition of the Machinery's Handbook.  Do you know
> for sure it is a 4 1/2 MT taper?  If not, it might be some other type
> of taper used like Brown and Sharpe or Jarno ETC.



In the 28th edition the specs for MT4.5 starts on page 927.


----------



## mce5802 (Feb 6, 2015)

Thanks for the replies. Pretty sure it's a 4 1/2 from measurements I took and a chart I found on the internet. Its real close to a b&s 11 taper (which my k&t uses...also ancient) but no cigar.also the tailstock is MT 5 so my guess would be the spindle is a Morse taper too. Was hoping someone made em, but I guess I'll just make one myself. The old girl has a taper attachment on it, maybe I can indicate the spindle taper to set it. And send for a MT 3 reamer. Excuse to buy another tool lol.


----------



## Dave Smith (Feb 6, 2015)

Standard machine taper had a 4 1/2 mt that was in between a mt4 and mt5---your Reed lathe took a 6L or--- 15H collet which were also used on Sidney ---24-36" --Hendey no. 15-and Cushman------collet 6L were also used on LeBlond #6 16-20"---6L up to 1" capacity round and 15H up to 1 3/4 capacity round---I'm not sure how the mt4 1/2 fits into  the spindles measurements on lathes--I just know that Standard Machine Taper did make them as per MH--11th edition--------Dave


----------



## Holescreek (Feb 6, 2015)

I bought mine from Grizzly. Let me check online and see if I can find a part number.


----------



## mce5802 (Feb 6, 2015)

Thanks again I'll check grizzly. And good to hear from you Dave...never heard of those collets you mention...are you thinking the taper may be specific to those collets and not a Morse taper at all? Be nice to have a set of collets up to 1 3/4 wow. The spindle bore is only around 1 1/4 though. I'll try and get more precise measurements.


----------



## Holescreek (Feb 6, 2015)

SPINDLE SLEEVE MT#4.5-MT#3 

P97302912 


$43.25 is cost


----------



## Dave Smith (Feb 6, 2015)

mce5802 said:


> Thanks again I'll check grizzly. And good to hear from you Dave...never heard of those collets you mention...are you thinking the taper may be specific to those collets and not a Morse taper at all? Be nice to have a set of collets up to 1 3/4 wow. The spindle bore is only around 1 1/4 though. I'll try and get more precise measurements.






What size and age is your Reed lathe---maybe it takes the 6L collets which max size is 1"-----Dave


----------



## Holescreek (Feb 6, 2015)

The MT4.5 taper was used in the L00 taper spindles.


----------



## mce5802 (Feb 6, 2015)

Dave Smith said:


> What size and age is your Reed lathe---maybe it takes the 6L collets which max size is 1"-----Dave




 Mine is somewhere after 1897 and no newer than 1908. It has the feed pulleys outside the change gears and says F.E. Reed co, not F.E. Reed & Co. (think that's right) It has an 18" swing,  about 60" between centers.

  I just did some researching online in mh and apparently there was a Reed taper (never simple, is it?) which was only used by two companys. I assume this is the two Reed companies or maybe Reed-Prentice. Anyway it's .6 in per foot or .05/inch, which is the same as a jarno taper but shorter. This would put the dimensions close to a Morse taper 4 1/2 as the small end is 1 1/4 and it's 5 1/16 long. Not close enough, though. So I guess I'll search eBay for a #12 jarno now n see what I can find.


----------



## PJRitz (Feb 8, 2015)

I have a used MT 4½ to MT 4 sleeve for sale, $35 shipped, anyone interested?

PJ Ritz


----------



## Ed ke6bnl (Feb 16, 2015)

MY 11" rockwell lather I believe is also 4.5 mt and also has the Loo chuck attachment


----------



## 4GSR (Feb 16, 2015)

Your Reed lathe of that time frame probably is a Jarno taper in the headstock.  It probably had a Jarno in the tailstock originally also.

My Sheldon Sebastian has a 4-1/2 Morse taper that is 1.625" ID at the face, instead of 1.500".


----------



## kwoodhands (Feb 21, 2015)

mce5802 said:


> I was just wondering if anyone had an idea where I could find a 4 1/2 Morse taper adapter sleeve or just somethin with a 4 1/2 mt shank I could cut off and reuse to make an adapter. My ancient Reed lathe, as near as I can tell, has this taper in the spindle. I've heard that some Clausing lathes had it too so maybe someone manufactures them still. I've had a search on eBay for quite a while with only one showing up and I missed out on it. I've checked the major supply houses as well. Maybe someone knows of another vendor. Thanks in advance.




Grizzly should have aq 4-1/2 MT adaptor.My 10 x 22 lathe has that taper in the head stock.I have a dead center for it but no adaptors.Check their website for parts info.You may be able to download the part #.
You could make one,

I just checked the online manual,calls for a #4 MT on my lathe.Went out to the shop,the dead center is a 4-1/2 MT.My written manual also calls it 4-1/2MT
I have made a couple of taper fixtures for my lathes,#2 #3 MT.
I do not have a taper attachment.I used a boring bar in the TS with a 60° point instead of a cutter.The boring bar can be offset instead of offsetting the TS.Find the small and large diameters for the MT. Practice on scrap,I used a piece of wood. Only took me 10 tries before I got the correct angle.One of these days I'll make or buy a sine bar to set the angle.
mike


----------



## mce5802 (Feb 23, 2015)

kwoodhands said:


> Grizzly should have aq 4-1/2 MT adaptor.My 10 x 22 lathe has that taper in the head stock.I have a dead center for it but no adaptors.Check their website for parts info.You may be able to download the part #.
> You could make one,
> 
> I just checked the online manual,calls for a #4 MT on my lathe.Went out to the shop,the dead center is a 4-1/2 MT.My written manual also calls it 4-1/2MT
> ...


----------



## mce5802 (Feb 23, 2015)

4gsr said:


> Your Reed lathe of that time frame probably is a Jarno taper in the headstock.  It probably had a Jarno in the tailstock originally also.
> 
> My Sheldon Sebastian has a 4-1/2 Morse taper that is 1.625" ID at the face, instead of 1.500".[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


----------



## mce5802 (Feb 23, 2015)

Thanks. I might try that. My goal is to have an adapter for collets, maybe 5c. The four jaw for this lathe only closes to about 3/4"


----------



## RJSakowski (Feb 23, 2015)

cathead said:


> My guess is that it would be a difficult item to find.  On the other hand,
> it would not be very difficult to make one if you have a taper attachment
> or even with the offset tail stock method.  I will look in the Machinery's
> Handbook and see if I can find some dimensional information on the
> ...


littlemachineshop.com lists dimensions for Morse tapers. Here is a paste from their website:
 Taper    Large End    Small End    Length  Taper/Foot   Taper/Inch  Angle From Center
#0          0.3561     0.2520      2.00      .6246        .0521           1.4908
#1           0.4750    0.3690       2.13      .5986       .0499           1.4287
#2          0.7000     0.5720       2.56     .5994      .0500            1.4307
#3          0.9380      0.7780       3.19     .6024     .0502            1.4377
#4           1.2310      1.0200      4.06     .6233      .0519             1.4876
#4-1/2   1.5000     1.2660       4.50     .6240      .0520            1.4894
#5           1.7480     1.4750        5.19     .6315       .0526            1.5073
#6           2.4940    2.1160        7.25     .6257      .0521             1.4933
#7           3.2700    2.7500    10.00     .6240      .0520             1.4894

A little hard to read;  spaces don't upload.   There are seven columns with headers.  Much clearer on the site!


----------



## astjp2 (Feb 26, 2015)

I may have an extra 4.5 MT to 5c adapter, I have two collet closers that I bought and both came with sleeves.  Let me know if you are interested.  Tim


----------



## markm63 (Mar 7, 2015)

my old reed prentice appears to have a mt 4.5 as well.
the tailstock is that size and all i have is an adapter
thats about 12" long to get to a popular size.
heres some pictures of the beast
http://www.myalbum.com/Album=647DFEQD


----------

