# Hold down clamping kits



## genewiseman (Jan 16, 2020)

I recently got my Jet JMD -18 milling machine set up and am basically starting from nothing as far as accessories go. I bought a set of collets and a parallel bar set. I already had a good vise as one came with the mill. I make folding knives so most of the milling I will be doing will be on small bar stock and thin stainless steel. I am considering getting one of the cheap clamping kits that they sell on Amazon for around $50.00. Would that be a smart investment? What are Y'all's experience with these cheaper clamping kits? Are they worth buying?
Thanks a lot, 
Gene


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## mikey (Jan 16, 2020)

Measure the slot width on your table. It is probably 5/8 so you would need a 5/8" set with 1/2 studs. 

You can buy cheap sets on ebay or Amazon but there are several brands that are better options. 

Northwestern Tools has a nice set but doesn't come with a holder. I can attest to the quality of their tools.
Te-Co is probably the standard and Amazon has the best prices. There are two versions of their 5/8" set; the 20402 forged steel set with steel holder and the cheaper 20402PL powdered metal set in a plastic holder. I opted for the forged steel set and can say that it is top notch in quality. They are not the standard for nothing.
If you are going to use these kinds of clamps a lot then it is probably a better idea to go for a good set. I don't use them as often as you might but I prefer to buy good and buy once. Your budget may vary.


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## Chewy (Jan 17, 2020)

Find out from owners of that machine what size it takes.  Found out from reading that my PM30MV takes 12mm tee nuts, not 1/2" as advertised, so I got mine from PM. People who bought bargain sets had to grind and mill slightly to make them work. Bought the bargain 3/8" set for rotary table. I rounded the edges to get further into the slots, but otherwise OK.  Now making tee nuts for mill that will work with the 3/8" set and also for 1/4" to do mini hold down clamps.  You will probably end up making custom hold downs to hold the work.  Say 5/8" tee nuts with 1/4" studs and small flat hold downs.  A 5'8" holding set for a 6" piece of steel might be a bit overkill. You tube and Pinterest has a million ideas to pick from on work holding.  Good Luck!  Charles

P.S. You came to the right forum for help and ideas.


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## Chewy (Jan 17, 2020)

Just thought of this.  Check into mini pallets.  Might be a better way to go for small pieces.  Also good practice in making them.


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## martik777 (Jan 17, 2020)

I've used mine maybe 2x in 10 years


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## C-Bag (Jan 17, 2020)

I bought one of the cheap HF sets and I use them all the time on my mill, my bandsaw and drill press. Yeah, they are not as nice as TeCo (I also look for clamps in garage sales and have picked up a couple of pieces) but not being a knife maker I have no idea what you need. And you don't either yet. I've also ground the ends of a couple of the big ones. I don't think I would do that with a TeCo set that one piece is close to what I paid for the cheapo set.

 I didn't have enough experience at first to know what I needed for the particular kind of work I do and rather than blow a wad on high end tooling that would ultimately sit I bought cheap so I could get a feel for what was going to be truly useful to me. I have dedicated several pieces of that set as basic kit on my drill press and especially my vertical bandsaw.

I respect all those who say "buy once, cry once" but in this case I think the proper size cheap kit is a good way to get started.


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## mikey (Jan 17, 2020)

C-Bag said:


> I respect all those who say "buy once, cry once" but in this case I think the proper size cheap kit is a good way to get started.



Can't argue with this. My problem with cheap tools is when they aggravate me every single time I use them or if they break doing the job they are intended to do. I would rather pay another hundred bucks to have a clamp set that will last me a lifetime and work the way they should, every single time.


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## FOMOGO (Jan 17, 2020)

I have several of the cheap sets. Not really a precision tool in any way, but they do everything I ask them to, and have never failed. In this particular case I would save the money on the inexpensive clamping sets, and spend it on more critical tooling. Mike


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## macardoso (Jan 17, 2020)

I bought a cheap set for my G0704 and use it constantly. Simple and small parts fit in your vise, but anything big or awkward needs to be held with these clamps. 

I ended up making a tooling plate from 5/8" aluminum for the table of my mill. It has 3/8-16 tapped holes and .251 reamed holes on offset 1 inch centers. Just makes using the kit even easier with more locations to build setups.

You can see it here under the vise. The clamping kit is holding this low profile vise to the table.


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## RJSakowski (Jan 17, 2020)

I have two sets of clamps, both coming with mills I have bought.  The first set is for 9/16" slots anuses 3/8-16 studs.My table slot were actually 5/8" wide so I made my own tee nuts for 5/8" slots and 3/8-16 studs.  This is a forged and hardened set and has seen some extreme use without failure.
The second set appears to be powdered metal and is soft to the file.  It is for 5/8" tee slots and has 1/2-13 studs.  It is a more clunky set and I don't use it much.  Mostly if I need more pieces than I have with the first set.  On a small mill, a 3/8" set is more compact and less likely to get in the way of machinung.  Unfortunately, I have yet to find any tee nuts threaded for 3/8-16 to fit 5/8" slots.

I have made/bought additional tee nuts for varying width slots to fit other machines and accessories. They range from those for 7/16" to 9/16" slots.


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## Aaron_W (Jan 17, 2020)

I have a small number of clamps but do most of my work with a vise probably because that is easiest and it is what I have available, rather than the best choice. 

I have been thinking about getting a clamping set recently, and have had similar questions so your timing is great. Thank you for asking this, it is a good question.


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## mikey (Jan 17, 2020)

One thing that aggravates me with cheap sets is that the studs usually don't have a flat milled in the middle. When you have to remove or replace the stud you have to put two nuts on the stud to get it out or be willing to deform the threads with pliers, it drives me nuts. Better sets have flats on all but the smallest of studs and it does make a difference. Fit and finish is also a differentiator. When the difference between a junk set and a really good one is a hundred bucks, it seems like false economy to go cheap.


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## Grandpop (Jan 17, 2020)

My 1980's Taiwan built 8 x 32 MSC knee mill has 9/16 wide slots, so bought an Enco set that size when I bought the mill. While the t-nuts fit the 9/16 table slot, the base of them did not fit the bottom of the tee slot (too thick and too wide). I milled them down to fit with a carbide end mill, and have used them ever since.

Make sure you measure all the dimensions of your slots, and then hope the advertised kit dimensions are as stated.


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## genewiseman (Jan 17, 2020)

Thanks for all the replies. A lot of good advice! I have been thinking and I think that I am going to make a few t nuts for the time being. I have figured out how to clamp my parts down for the time being now. I will see how my ideas work while I make some more money and then I will decide on a clamping set.
Thanks again!
Gene


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## Chewy (Jan 17, 2020)

I have not had the problem Mikey said, but I can see where it would be annoying.  The $50 cheap set I have could easily take milling some slots in the studs. The steel feels soft. You do get what you pay for.  My set sits there and collects dust. I have used it maybe 3-4 times in 3 years.  With that said, I just used it 4 times in 24 hours. Holding awkward assemblies for modifications. Hopefully it is back under the bench for a while.  As I stated above, I am making my own tee nuts for small studs to take smaller holders that I am making. For me that will get much more use then big 1/2" stud holders.  

To me the clamp kit is like home insurance.  Stays in the background, but when you need it, you need it.


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## mmcmdl (Jan 17, 2020)

Harlech said:


> Well, not on his first post anyways.





mikey said:


> One thing that aggravates me with cheap sets is that the studs usually don't have a flat milled in the middle. When you have to remove or replace the stud you have to put two nuts on the stud to get it out or be willing to deform the threads with pliers, it drives me nuts.



Ha , don't you love it when the guy before you grabs them with vise grips ?


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## f350ca (Jan 17, 2020)

I bought a set with 1/2 inch studs when I bought the mill, pushing 20 years ago. They get used quite a bit, Taiwan I imagine, no flats on the studs but I've never had a nut or T-nut that didn't spin off by hand once loosened with the wrench. I have a few 3/8th clamps with mostly cap screws for the tooling plate. And picked up a used set of Do-All with 5/8th studs for the shaper and holding things down on the T-slot table when welding or beating bent things back into tolerance. Think those ones have flats but have never used them.

Greg


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## macardoso (Jan 18, 2020)

Had to bust out the clamping kit last night. No way to hold this part in a vise.


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## mikey (Jan 18, 2020)

genewiseman said:


> ... I will see how my ideas work while I make some more money and then I will decide on a clamping set.



Go make a LOT more money, Gene. We haven't even started in on you yet!


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## Aaron_W (Jan 18, 2020)

Yet another area where you pay a premium to be different. I'm finding far fewer options in 7/16" and 9/16" than 1/2" or 5/8", and often more expensive as well. 

It looks like when I get around to getting one of these sets I may be best served finding a 1/2" set with 3/8" studs and buying or making the T-slot nuts so I can use one set with both mills.


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## C-Bag (Jan 18, 2020)

mikey said:


> Can't argue with this. My problem with cheap tools is when they aggravate me every single time I use them or if they break doing the job they are intended to do. I would rather pay another hundred bucks to have a clamp set that will last me a lifetime and work the way they should, every single time.


Believe me I know what you are talking about Mike. And I don't like aggravating tools either. I've bought several Te-Co 1" step block sets when Zoro had a special on them as they are super handy. The fit on them is way nicer than the ones that came with my set. I have not run into the sticking stud problem and so didn't know about the flats on the stud thing. I checked out the link for the Te-Co special set on Amazon. Wonder how they would stack up to the cheap ones as they also have the plastic wall holder(which I like for the convinenence and have been on my wall for over 6yrs now with no problem) and one of the complaints in the review was the studs in that set don't have flats either. 

I'm not baiting you Mike just noting.


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## mikey (Jan 18, 2020)

The set with the plastic holder is the powdered metal set - cheap. If one buys a set, get the forged steel set I linked to. It's a nice set and fairly priced for what it is. That forged set has flats on the studs. You know how the last thread on a good t-nut is upset? If the stud gets jammed into that it will take wrench to get it off; that's when the flat is nice. Not a deal breaker but I guess I get aggravated by the dumbest things.


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## mmcmdl (Jan 18, 2020)

When I moved my shop 2 houses up , I remember burying boxes and boxes of clamps and studs out by road . Used them as fill and covered them with dirt . I'll wager if I took a metal detector out there I could find them . I would imagine they are well seasoned as this was 1993 .


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## Ulma Doctor (Jan 18, 2020)

making your own clamps is not difficult.
i have done so many times when a commercially available clamp was too bulky, or when i needed a custom profile 

i have both the cheap and the more expensive clamps.
i'm of the opinion that you will use your vise more than any other work holding devise, if you are anything like the 90% of us.
that being said, spend the money on a good vise, get mediocre clamp set,  and make your clamps when you need them or when it counts.
you'll find that mediocre clamps will still exert thousands of pounds of force onto the work piece, just like the high dollar ones.
the trade off will be a few moments more Time/labor to break down set ups, maybe a few more expletives if you have to make another clamp.

i would give different advise to a production shop, for a hobbyist i say spend the money elsewhere-
$100 bucks could buy other tooling of greater necessity


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## macardoso (Jan 18, 2020)

Strongly agree with @Ulma Doctor!


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## BGHansen (Jan 19, 2020)

I have a 35 year old 1/2" wide t-nut set from Enco that have served me well on my Jet JVM-830 mill. Bought a Bridgeport a few years ago and picked up what was advertised as a 1/2-13 new set off eBay. Turned out to be a 12mm metric set. Seller offered a discount after the fact so I kept it. Ended up buying a second English set and painted the metric set with a paint marker to Heep from mixing them up.

I've had no issues with any of my import sets.

Bruce


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## Bob Korves (Jan 19, 2020)

T-slots are part of the practical accuracy of our machines.  Take care of them.  For tooling I use all the time, I make my own t-nuts from mild steel to fit the t-slots with a nice sliding fit and with all corners carefully rounded.  I have a cheap import clamp set, but only use it when I have to, and clamp them as lightly as possible.  The hardened and roughly shaped t-nuts can distort the t-slots, making for instance, tramming mill vises, more fussy.  I am careful about keeping t-slots clean and pristine.  Makes setups lots easier. As an example, my mill vise keys fit the chuck and the t-slots without any play, and the vise never needs tramming each time it gets installed.  I take it on and off regularly for other setups, easy and quick, with known accuracy, no messing around with an indicator.  My Bridgeport vise came to me used and without jaws, so I made my own from mild steel and then milled them in place to be parallel to the X and Z axes travel.


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## epanzella (Feb 4, 2020)

I bought the cheap sets from Grizzly. One for me and one each for my 2 sons. Zero problems. Yeah, they don't have a flat in the middle but I just screw the studs into the nuts  finger tight and they have always come right out. I consider expensive clamp sets similar to expensive paper weights. Nice but  not required.


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## Mini Cooper S (Feb 4, 2020)

I had an employee one time who thought that he was doing us a favor.  He noticed that the studs in a brand new clamp kit didn't screw all the way through the T-nuts so he tapped them all through and proudly showed my shop foreman and I what a nice job he did!  He was a little disappointed with himself when we pointed out that they are made that way to prevent the stud from jamming the T-nut in the T-slot!  Nothing that a couple of strategic wacks with a center punch couldn't cure.


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## darkzero (Feb 4, 2020)

Mini Cooper S said:


> I had an employee one time who thought that he was doing us a favor.  He noticed that the studs in a brand new clamp kit didn't screw all the way through the T-nuts so he tapped them all through and proudly showed my shop foreman and I what a nice job he did!  He was a little disappointed with himself when we pointed out that they are made that way to prevent the stud from jamming the T-nut in the T-slot!  Nothing that a couple of strategic wacks with a center punch couldn't cure.



Haha, reminds of this one...... (not my story)

Dad: Hey, I fixed all your allen wrenches.
Son: Fixed, what do you mean, what was wrong with them?
Dad: Someone rounded off all the ends so I ground them all off you.


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## Alcap (Feb 5, 2020)

One thing a cheap clamp set has going for it , you won't feel bad if you have to cut/grind/modify a clamp for a special project . I keep cheap wrenches , pliers , screwdrivers for those jobs too


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## MrWhoopee (Feb 13, 2020)

I bought a cheap set off eBay to  complete the assortment I had. Despite being advertised as 1/2-13, they were M12x2. Unfortunately, I discovered this after I milled the 22mm hex nuts down to 3/4. Now I have to be careful not to mix them. Someday I'll buy a real 1/2-13 set and give these away.


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## petertha (Feb 14, 2020)

macardoso said:


> I ended up making a tooling plate from 5/8" aluminum for the table of my mill. It has 3/8-16 tapped holes and .251 reamed holes on offset 1 inch centers.



Are the 0.251" reamed holes so you can insert dowel pins & position parts up against them or something along those lines?


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## NortonDommi (Feb 14, 2020)

Mini Cooper S said:


> I had an employee one time who thought that he was doing us a favor.  He noticed that the studs in a brand new clamp kit didn't screw all the way through the T-nuts so he tapped them all through and proudly showed my shop foreman and I what a nice job he did!  He was a little disappointed with himself when we pointed out that they are made that way to prevent the stud from jamming the T-nut in the T-slot!  Nothing that a couple of strategic wacks with a center punch couldn't cure.


Actually the upset is to prevent the bolt or stud from protruding into to T-slot and jamming but more importantly if a bolt is used to prevent jacking.  If you see a slotted table with a hunk broken out of it chances are that someone used a bolt and cranked it down jacking the T-nut out through the top of the slot.  Many tons of pressure can easily be generated and cast iron does not like tension.
  I found a whole lot of little marks appearing all over my table once and traced it to a cheap set of clamps bought on sale.  I had been in a hurry on a job at night and hadn't noticed the finish.  Very rough with sharp edges.  !/2 hour with a file and buff and all was good.  Still miffed about the table.


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