# Honeoye mill? Edit possibly Cheng Ki



## Investigator (Oct 13, 2020)

Found one for sale Honeyo brand, lookalike j head clone. Any info before I jump in blind?


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 13, 2020)

Haven't seen one of that brand (or heard for that matter) if you can, run it and cut with it before you drop cash 
and if it passes your inspection and the price is within your comfort zone OK........
One thought that works for me is do I have the means and ability to to make work it in that price range  if it goes south
after the buy, the Acra I recently bought had issues that I pointed out to the seller and for the price we agreed on after that it worked out
for me  YMMV........


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## Investigator (Oct 13, 2020)

Now with pics


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## Investigator (Oct 13, 2020)

So, 3 phase motor, it looks like power down feed but I'm not sure. Hope the experts here could give some opinions.
The crank handle for the knee is missing. It has a pair of vice grips on the shift. He said it was that way when he got it 10 years ago.


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## matthewsx (Oct 13, 2020)

Looks like a worthy machine, not under power so there’s that.

What are they asking and can you do what you want if it’s more worn than you would like?

Standard Bridgeport clone step pulley head should take generic parts so you should be able to fix whatever needs it.

Probably comes down to price.

John


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## matthewsx (Oct 13, 2020)

Watching your new shop go up I have no doubt you’ll be able to make this do the job for you. Our new forum sponsor can grind the whole thing if you want and rebuilding the quill if needed should give you a practically new machine.

Is it Taiwan or China?

John


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## Investigator (Oct 13, 2020)

I committed to buy it, even though its not under power. Price was $1500


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## pontiac428 (Oct 13, 2020)

I like it from my armchair.  It definitely has power feed on the quill.  The ways don't look too bad from the photos, the table is good and the machine looks like it will clean up nice.

You can get a brand new chrome-plated knee crank on the fleabay for about the cost of a trip through a drive-thru.  These clone mills can usually take a lot of Bridgeport replacement parts.  A clean up and refresh, a coat of paint, and a x-axis power feed kit should set you on your way!


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 13, 2020)

Project fer sure, I gave one more Benjamin fer mine but it;s a little prettier.......................


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## Investigator (Oct 13, 2020)

So, the story:  I pretty much thumb through the facebook market place and craigslist everyday for all sorts of things.  Today I found the ad for this mill had been posted for sale 3 hours prior to my finding it.  I immediately assumed it to be a B'port clone and messaged the seller.  We went back a forth for about 30 minutes when I looked at his facebook and realized he was a firefighter, I'm a firefighter.  We connected over that a bit.  I called and said I wanted to come look at it which he was good with.  He says he's had this machine 10 years and its great, everything works, he only took it out because he got a better machine in a deal.  I looked at the new machine, a bit larger, power feeds everywhere and DRO's so it makes sense.

2 things really sold me on this machine.  The first being he is a newly retired firefighter and I am currently a firefighter.  There was a connection from the job that seemed to carry over into a 'no sales pitch' conversation.  He said its in good shape and he had no problems with it and I believe him.  The second thing was I got to look at his shop, and it was clean and well taken care of.  The floor was clean, tools were put away, other machines were not covered up in tools and parts and were in good shape.  Looking at the shop I judged him to be someone who takes care of tools and equipment.  Those things really made me feel better about it.  My own inspection made me feel good too, no drilled holes in the table, no rust anywhere, oil on all the ways, not covered in chips.  He showed me the one shot oiler works. I got to turn the handles and feel them all move.

I think i'm going to be happy, going from an RF30 to this.  On that note, this one has a lot more levers, going to need some instructions to use 'em all.


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## matthewsx (Oct 13, 2020)

There's no trust greater than a brotherhood where you swear to save each other's lives. I'm sure you'll be happy with it and just may have made a new friend 

John


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 13, 2020)

Sounds good, hope to see some progress pics soon.........


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## Investigator (Oct 14, 2020)

So now reality has set in, I've got to go move a knee mill about 100 miles smack dab through Dallas.   Actually I'm not to worried about the move as much as the other idiots that are on the road.

I'm already making plans and have several important decisions to make, which I would like advice on.  Luckily, my new shop is dry even though it isn't finished.  I can put the mill inside and it will be a good place to work on it.  Moving it will probably mean a partial disassembly, at least removing the head which isn't a big deal, maybe the "ram" not sure on what the part is called.  Which brings up some things to consider.  It appears to me that the machine has been painted, as in barely taped off and a coat of paint added overall. The machine seems to be in good shape, and the PO seemed to keep a nice clean tidy well maintained shop.  However, the machine is about 30 years old.  At the least I think I would like to clean it up, and while it is apart would be a good time to do that.  And here the slippery slope starts.  IF it's apart and I clean it I might want to spiff it up with some paint.  Taking it apart to do a good inspection and cleaning would be a good time to do a full  repaint.  That would mean it would be a good time to change out the oil lines on the one shot system.  I don't think I would want to or be able to get into rescraping the ways, but short of that..........

For you guys that have been down this road, having a new-to-you used mill show up, how far should I be looking at going?


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## matthewsx (Oct 14, 2020)

I have not been down that road with a Bridgeport but I know what I'd do.

Flip the head upside down and brace with wood against the table. Move it to my shop. Flip the head right side up and put power to it (of course make sure everything is lubed before firing it up. Make a few cuts. Measure.

That way if you do start refurbishing you will at least have a baseline to reference. Might be it'll do just fine without any major work, if you want it to be pretty go ahead and tear it down and fix anything that needs it along the way. But, knowing where you started is a big step in getting to where you're going.

JMHO,

JOhn


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 14, 2020)

Well fer what it's worth;   How soon do you want it usable ?
                                          What level of refurbish do you want ?
                                          How much do you want to spend ?
                                          Is project creep gonna give you grief ? cuz that is a GIVEN in any project....
                                          Not tryin to rain on yer parade, I love a challenging project, it makes the finish of it more gratifying ..........


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## FOMOGO (Oct 14, 2020)

I don't think there is any wrong way to go about it. I ran mine for two years before I did much to it, which gives you some time to get to know it and find all the little areas that need attention. Once you pull the table to replace the oil lines you might as well replace, or adjust the half nuts and lead screws and check out the gibs. If you look under the Bridgeport section in the forums area there is a lot of good info. Here is my thread on the half nut modification https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/bridgeport-x-y-feed-screw-nut-replacement.64253/page-2 and somewhere near that thread should be one on replacing the oil lines. I really enjoy working on my machines, almost as much as using them. No matter how you go about it just take your time, and enjoy the journey. Cheers, Mike


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## Investigator (Oct 15, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> I have not been down that road with a Bridgeport but I know what I'd do.
> 
> Flip the head upside down and brace with wood against the table. Move it to my shop. Flip the head right side up and put power to it (of course make sure everything is lubed before firing it up. Make a few cuts. Measure.
> 
> ...



*That is a very good point, thank you.  I think I will do that very thing to start with.*



Norseman C.B. said:


> Well fer what it's worth;   How soon do you want it usable ?
> What level of refurbish do you want ?
> How much do you want to spend ?
> Is project creep gonna give you grief ? cuz that is a GIVEN in any project....
> Not tryin to rain on yer parade, I love a challenging project, it makes the finish of it more gratifying ..........



*I think I'm pretty much in the same boat with you.  I have an RF30 now working, just looking for a project, so I have time if I need it.  My plan is to sell the RF30 after I get this up and running, assuming I'm able to clean this one up and make sure it is at least as capable as the smaller one.

I'm right in between shops now.  I have my new detached 30x40 in the dry, waiting on spray insulation so I can finish out the interior.  At that point I will be moving everything from my 'garage' into the shop.  As for right now, I will put the big mill in the middle of the new shop and work around it while I also work on it.  I think I want to fix the paint, got some chips and flaking areas now, and I can tell someone at some point painted over things on it.  I might want to make her pretty, maybe even a new color scheme. *



FOMOGO said:


> I don't think there is any wrong way to go about it. I ran mine for two years before I did much to it, which gives you some time to get to know it and find all the little areas that need attention. Once you pull the table to replace the oil lines you might as well replace, or adjust the half nuts and lead screws and check out the gibs. If you look under the Bridgeport section in the forums area there is a lot of good info. Here is my thread on the half nut modification https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/bridgeport-x-y-feed-screw-nut-replacement.64253/page-2 and somewhere near that thread should be one on replacing the oil lines. I really enjoy working on my machines, almost as much as using them. No matter how you go about it just take your time, and enjoy the journey. Cheers, Mike



*I do wonder about the leadscrews.  I also wonder about how hard and expensive it would be to convert to ball screws.  But I have to keep in mind that I will soon be wanting to add DRO's and feed motors. *


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## pontiac428 (Oct 15, 2020)

Ballscrews?  Are you converting to CNC?  If not, then you wouldn't want ballscrews.  The backlash adjustment works the same as a lead screw, and it's equally accurate, but ballscrews eliminate the friction that holds things in place, meaning cutting forces can move the mill table mid-cut if you don't lock things tight after every table move.  Normal servo-type feed motors have plenty of gear reduction and torque to move lead screws just fine.


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## Investigator (Oct 15, 2020)

pontiac428 said:


> Ballscrews?  Are you converting to CNC?  If not, then you wouldn't want ballscrews.  The backlash adjustment works the same as a lead screw, and it's equally accurate, but ballscrews eliminate the friction that holds things in place, meaning cutting forces can move the mill table mid-cut if you don't lock things tight after every table move.  Normal servo-type feed motors have plenty of gear reduction and torque to move lead screws just fine.



Obviously my lack of knowledge shows. I have read several time that ballscrews were some improvement, i never associated it with being for CNC conversion.  Actually, that's good for me, since it would mean less to do on the refurb.

Thank you for the info!


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 15, 2020)

My power feed unit arrived this morning, I was kinda doubtful of the quality it would be for the price
but upon initial inspection it seems to be pretty well built, it is a knock off of a Servo.
We shall see how it performs as I get it installed and in actual use later ....................


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## hman (Oct 15, 2020)

The unit looks durn near identical to the Align I got with my PM mill.  Mine works very well.  Hope yours does the same!


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 15, 2020)

HMMMMM, how did I manage to post this here, ? shoulda been on my thread............. 
Can it be moved to my new shop baby thread  ??


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## Investigator (Oct 15, 2020)

Your good, doesnt bother me, but I did think maybe you were in the wrong spot,lol


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## Investigator (Oct 16, 2020)

Got her home

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Interesting to me all the dials are marked in both metric and imperial


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## hman (Oct 16, 2020)

Hmmmmm ... something seems a bit off.  0.200" (one turn) = 50.8mm.  The metric markings show 51.0mm. Is the leadscrew inch or metric?  At least one of the scales seems to have a "fudge factor" applied, so the turns come out more conveniently for the user.  Guess you'll just have to add a DRO (which I myself would never again be without).


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## pontiac428 (Oct 16, 2020)

I'm glad for you that the leadscrews are based on the Bridgeport standard at .200/turn.  The decimal side is 5.1mm/turn, so you need to account for that 0.1mm carryover when working in mm.  If it were the other way around with metric leadscrews, like some are, it would leave you counting for the difference all the time.  Dual scales rock.  Of course, I know you've already been shopping for DROs.


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## Investigator (Oct 16, 2020)

pontiac428 said:


> .....Of course, I know you've already been shopping for DROs.



Actually, yeah I kinda did look some.  I have a set of 3 of the EZ VIew scales from IGaging on my RF30 now and they are very useful.  I dont think it would be appropriate to put the same thing on this.  So, yeah I guess I'm looking around at DRO's


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 16, 2020)

Now da fun begins  !!!........................


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## Choiliefan (Oct 17, 2020)

From personal experience, had the seller been a local church deacon, I'd've run the other way.


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## Investigator (Oct 17, 2020)

Choiliefan said:


> From personal experience, had the seller been a local church deacon, I'd've run the other way.



I'm not sure what you're trying to say


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## Investigator (Oct 17, 2020)

Well, I've been trying to research things.  I found a couple things.  I'm going on the premise that Cheng Ki is the manufacturer, based in Taiwan. I found a listing of catalogs in the Smithsonian which listed Cheng Ki as manufacturer or machine tools, specifically turret milling machines:
Link to Smithsonian record

I also found a couple of auctions on the 'bay.  The first one is badged as "Jackson", above the plate with model in serial number which list it as Cheng Ki:






This particular machine also has a badge on the pedestal which I am 99% sure is the importer, since Nan Tai is still in business as an importer from Taiwan:



The second example I found was sold on the 'bay auction site and was only listed as a Cheng Ki milling machine.  It appears to me to have lost the 'brand' badge above it at some point:






So, all of that lead me to the conclusion that Cheng Ki was the original manufacturer in Taiwan.  I'm pretty sure they sold them to anyone and were willing to rebadge it to your brand.  

The only thing this does for me is convince me the machine was made in Taiwan, the rest of the information is just interesting i guess.


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 18, 2020)

Well where you at with it ?? Inquiring minds want to know ya know ??.......................


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## Investigator (Oct 18, 2020)

Norseman C.B. said:


> Well where you at with it ?? Inquiring minds want to know ya know ??.......................



I'm kind of in a holding pattern right now. The machine is in my new shop building, soon to be covered in plastic until I get my spray foam insulation done.  link to my shop build.  I'm waiting on the spray insulation and can't even run power, until I get that done I can't do anything in the building.  

But, I'm not just waiting. I've ordered the book on rebuilding a Bridgeport, as well as some new wipes. I've pretty much decided to tear it down so I can clean and paint and 'fix' things before I put it in place.  I know me, and I know that if I don't do it now, it likely wont get done until I am forced to. 

My machine is missing the clutch for the knee lift, and the matching handle.  I'm trying to understand how the clutch attaches to the shaft and turns, I cant see a keyway  or anything.


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 18, 2020)

Gotcha,  I now have serious shop envy goin on !!
I watched Barry's videos from H&W Machine on YouTube on tear down and re-assembly of bridgeports
they were very helpful, other than some minor differences in manufacturing the same thing...
That knee drive is a face spline and the imports are the same as B port E bay probably has em ............


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## Weldingrod1 (Oct 18, 2020)

There isnt normally a clutch.on the knee. The handle drives the pinion gear directly.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Investigator (Oct 18, 2020)

These 2 parts are what I'm missing.  The shaft is there sticking out, the dial and lock is there, but no splined part, I thought it was called a clutch.  Obviously the handle is missing as well.  PO had vise grips on the shaft for elevation change, he said he hardly ever used it.  

From this pic, it looks like there is a keyway, does that sound right?


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 18, 2020)

That's the stuff, the contact/drive area is a face spline there should be a keyway on the pinion shaft 
stickin out of the knee for the drive and handle to attatch to..........


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## pontiac428 (Oct 18, 2020)

I second the H&W Machine videos.  I don't waste time with YouTube, just my preference and tastes, but I did spend some time on HW's mill rebuild videos.  They translated well enough to my Lagun, and that raised my confidence level until I learned my way around the new mill.


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## Investigator (Oct 18, 2020)

Finally had a chance to do a bit of checking.  2 things I found; the spindle has about .005" run out when turned by hand, and has a little 'rattle' when I try to wiggle it, cant feel it move, cant see it move, but can hear it.  It's almost like the bearings need more preload, but I dont think they are loaded at all.  
The other thing I found, and I honestly kick myself for not checking this or at least noticing, is on the right hand side of the table, the leadscrew passes through the bracket attached to the table. At some point it obviously had a power feed unit on it, the space is still there. Problem is there is no bearing journal for the lead screw to turn in.  Hope that makes sense.

I did test the table as much as I could.  I tightened the gibbs and moved the table to each extreme.  I didn't notice it binding at the ends at all.  This has me hopeful.

So, my plan seems to be coming into focus.  looks like I'm going to plan on a refurb.  Plan right now is to disassemble, clean, and strip the paint.  Several places have paint missing and gouges through the sickly blue filler.  I'm going to strip to bare metal, at that point I will evaluate the castings and see if I need any filler to cover any real nasty casting voids.  Next, I will probably use foam rollers to roll on a correct  gray color*.

              *Fun fact: A few  years ago I came into possession of a 1939 Delta Unisaw.  Long story short, over on the OWWM forum there were long detailed discussions/arguments over what was the ''correct' shade of gray.  I also came into possession of an original 1939 Delta catalog, in which Delta sold gray paint for touching up their machines.  In fact, Delta catalog list 3 shades of gray in that catalog.  I am convinced that there is no 'correct' color across the board for any brand, and that manufacturers painted on whatever shade of color they were sent.  So, I'm not overly concerned with finding the 'correct' color for this machine.

I'll start the refurb with the base, knee and table.  After that is done, I'll move to the head.  Probably new bearing just to be sure.

I went into this purchase of the opinion that the price was right and considered it a project.  I was right so far lol


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## hman (Oct 20, 2020)

Do you plan to re-add a power feed?  If, so, it will include a needle bearing.  If not, you can probably get the bearing number from the bracket at the other end of the table.  I installed a power feed on my Chinese "Bridgeport clone" PM mill.  The bering in mine was a 6204 (20mm ID).


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## Investigator (Oct 20, 2020)

hman said:


> Do you plan to re-add a power feed?  If, so, it will include a needle bearing.  If not, you can probably get the bearing number from the bracket at the other end of the table.  I installed a power feed on my Chinese "Bridgeport clone" PM mill.  The bering in mine was a 6204 (20mm ID).



Power feed is on the list of things I would like to have, however I'm not planning on doing it right off the bat.  That plan could change though if adding the feed is a less expensive option in some way to fix the missing end, but I don't think it will be.

Really need to get it apart and cleaned and see where I really am.


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 20, 2020)

The X table feed I bought was only $ 117.00 delivered to my door from E-Bay, not a Servo brand by any means
but a decent workable unit even though an import mine works fine and the install was a breeze........


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## Investigator (Oct 20, 2020)

Norseman C.B. said:


> The X table feed I bought was only $ 117.00 delivered to my door from E-Bay, not a Servo brand by any means
> but a decent workable unit even though an import mine works fine and the install was a breeze.............



Thats not a bad price at all.  What did it come with and what was replaced on the shaft?


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 20, 2020)

The only things not included were the dial, the drive handle and one spacer all of which you can find on E-Bay
the spacer you can make easy enough, look at H&W Machinery repair's U -Tube video on installing it too .......


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## Investigator (Oct 20, 2020)

Norseman C.B. said:


> The only things not included were the dial, the drive handle and one spacer all of which you can find on E-Bay
> the spacer you can make easy enough, look at H&W Machinery repair's U -Tube video on installing it too .......



Does it use the same bearing that was on the table?


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 20, 2020)

The unit has a roller bearing in it and a sleeve to adapt it to the lead screw shaft, it also has the mounting flange to attach to the end of the table
and mount the drive unit onto as well as all the shims for setting the clearances.
If you don't have the dial for it you will need to find one or make one and like I said before the vids that H&W machinery repair
post's on U Tube are a LOT of help figgerin it all out............   

                                                          Of course askin here is also helpfull..........


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## pontiac428 (Oct 20, 2020)

The difference between a Servo feed and a Chi-Align feed mostly has to do with the precision of disengagement and coasting past disengagement.  When being used manually, this is not an issue.  I stop early and hand crank to my end point with the Chi-Align rather than trying to trust the stops.  This difference is easy to live with.  The Servo is snappier, but functionality and power are about the same for both.  I can repair the Servo with available spares, but that's never stopped anybody from wanting to save $800 with a China drive.  If I bought a 3rd mill I wouldn't hesitate to go with Chi-Align again.


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## smoky4712 (Feb 26, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> Looks like a worthy machine, not under power so there’s that.
> 
> What are they asking and can you do what you want if it’s more worn than you would like?
> 
> ...


Kinda made me laugh. "Looks like a worthy machine. 
   When I was  kid, my step dads father was named Worthy. He had a sort of machine sop that I tinkered around in. All of his machines looked like that. All working and under power, but all looking like they needed some TLC.
    So yes, it does look like a "Worthy" machine to me.


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