# Dividing head identification help



## Lo-Fi (Dec 24, 2019)

Hi

First post after introducing myself in the new members section.

I'm looking for a little help identifying a dividing head I recently purchased. It has _no_ identifying markings on it, I've run just about every image search I can looking for something similar, but come up empty.

Key points are:

Universal (if direct spiral cut drive removed)
<Edit:>40:1 ratio
4" centre height
Tangs in the bottom fit the Bridgeport table like a glove
Drives for direct or indexed spiral cutting
Angle locks are on the top facing horizontal, not at the rear like most Victorias
Handles are metal
Index plate lock is internal, not on the outside of the plate

It was an ebay "that looks worth a punt" affair, and I'm really pleased with it. However, it's missing the gears for helical cutting, and I'd like to know a little more about it and possibly see if I can find a manual somewhere.

Any clues would be most welcome! It doesn't look too dissimilar to some Cincinnati models, but I can't find a direct match. Just knowing the manufacturer would be a huge help.

Many thanks if you can help!


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## brino (Dec 24, 2019)

It looks heavy and very well made.
My first thought was Cincinnati too, but I don't have an answer for you.

However I do have some questions........
Is that long spindle out the back removable?
Can the chuck be positioned vertically?

-brino


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## Lo-Fi (Dec 24, 2019)

Thanks, I'm dead chuffed with it 

I'm sure that spindle is removable, though I haven't yet figured out quite how. There's a pin spanner nut I'll have to make a spanner to fit. Just another job on the list!

The head can be moved and is graduated to over 90 degrees, so provided the spindle can be removed I'm sure it can be positioned vertically.


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## Janderso (Dec 24, 2019)

John York will know. Bemnychree??


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## Lo-Fi (Dec 27, 2019)

Well that's embarrassing... Its 40:1, not 60:1
I was assuming that the graduation marks on the spindle were tens of degrees... They're 24ths. 

So it's 40:1

Anyway, I knocked up a pin spanner and set about trying to remove the rear spindle drive. No dice. I've removed the nut on the end and the gear, but the pin drive nut comes to a hard stop against the spindle. I've tried a few light taps, but nothing is budging. 

There's a C spanner nut on the inside behind the worm gear which I've tried loosening, but it doesn't seem to get me very far either. 

How would one normally removed a rear spindle on any other model? One thing that just occurred to me is that the spindle is screwed in and either the C or pin spanner nut are jam nuts. I'll see if that gets me anywhere next time I'm in the workshop. 

Surprisingly, the Allen head fasteners are metric, so I can only assume its European or Japanese manufacture and/or not as old as I thought. I need to do some measuring and see if the single 30 tooth gear that came with it is metric too. I don't _need _to cut helical gears right now, but I really want to! Also, there's the possibility of differential dividing, which opens up many more dividing possibilities with the plates I have. Excellent video here:






It looks like a may be able to cut or buy and adapt some gears to do differential dividing setups fairly easily. 

Can't help but think I really landed on my feet with this! I just had a quick go at my first simple dividing jobs and really enjoyed myself. I'll order some gear cutters in a moment - recommendations welcome


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## Lo-Fi (Dec 28, 2019)

Figured it out. The C spanner nuts are there to adjust the mesh of the worm gear:




The spindle is held in with an expanding mandrel type of affair. It's also keyed. Loosen the nut, give it a little tap with a soft blow hammer and remove:





Then the head can be rotated:




I'm still none the wiser about the manufacturer, but at least I know how it's put together now!


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## eeler1 (Dec 28, 2019)

Lo-Fi said:


> Thanks, I'm dead chuffed with it



That’s a good thing, correct? 

Anyway, Congratulations!  And looks like you have it figured out.


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## brino (Dec 28, 2019)

Nice!
Still a very well-made piece.

Someone put a lot of work into the design and implementation.
Funny that they did not put their mark on it.

-brino

EDIT:

I still think that the handles should be an obvious lead to the manufacturer:




and especially the fluted one:



we just gotta get the attention of another owner......

-brino


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## Lo-Fi (Dec 28, 2019)

Thanks guys. Yep, definitely a good thing! 

I reckon you're onto something with the handles - I've been running image searches for every type of dividing head I can think of, but come up blank so far. 

I think I'll cut a full set of metric change gears with/for it. The plates I've got get me a decent amount of tooth counts, and I'd have to make something to suit the Bridgeport feed anyway. Really looking forward to some gear cutting! I'll probably cut them from some Meehanite, it's such nice stuff to work with.


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## Toolmaker51 (Dec 29, 2019)

Cut gears if you like, good experience. May render disappointment how infrequently they'll be called on. But this work is more about extending capability than "I Can Only Do This". Those seem to be replacement handles. Tooling lives a hard life; most often being handled by some joker WHO DID NOT PAY FOR IT.
You'll find brand name rather immaterial; thankfully 40:1 means the same thing worldwide. That you have the plate(s) will be sufficient for a tremendous range of dividing. Without corresponding fed drive and universal table, helical work is real limited.
That pattern of divider [large trunnion and clamping] has already lasted 3 generations, minimum. Unless you crash it, certainly outlive you too.


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## pontiac428 (Dec 30, 2019)

If it was war time production, it could be made by anyone (Sterling, Rolls Royce, you know) and not been stamped with a maker's name.


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## Lo-Fi (Dec 31, 2019)

pontiac428 said:


> If it was war time production, it could be made by anyone (Sterling, Rolls Royce, you know) and not been stamped with a maker's name.



It's strikes me as having been made way back when grandad was a boy, but the fasteners are definitely metric... A puzzle, for sure! I'm just curious to know a bit about it, it's so nicely made. 

I have the 3 and 4 plates, which give 41,31,21,13 and 43,33,23,20 holes. 

The gear cutting is really purely for my own amusement, but differential dividing does look quite useful for expanding what's indexable beyond making more and more plates. 

Next challenge is to get the chuck off so I can give everything a good clean up and lube. There are pin spanner holes in the spindle right behind the chuck, so I assume it's threaded and they're for holding the spindle.


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## Lo-Fi (Feb 12, 2020)

No closer to finding any more about it, but I have used it a bunch:






I'd like to get plates 1 and 2 to fill some of the gaps in what I can index. Looks like I might have to make them or adapt some that are roughly the right size.


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## eeler1 (Feb 13, 2020)

Wow, dude is making gears.

I’ve wondered if a person wanted some plates made, and knew someone with a dro on their mill, or someone who had a cnc mill, if those plates could be produced by that someone.  Not much different than making a bolt circle, is it?


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## Lo-Fi (Feb 13, 2020)

Enjoying making gears too 

Absolutely! MrPete has some great videos on making plates using various different methods; DRO being one of them. A DRO is on my shopping list! The other option open to me is to 3D print some temporary plates which will allow me to index for the plates I want to make in steel. For oddball prime number indexing operations that you might only use once or twice, I reckon the 3D print method is a winner anyway. I have the differential dividing option too, so as long as I can index for the gears I need to index a plate I want to make... Its possibly the worst case of tools breeding tools I've ever seen!!


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## Lo-Fi (Feb 13, 2020)

Oh man. The slicer (Cura) really doesn't like slicing a part with hundreds of tiny holes in it... The longest slicing time I've ever had on a part!






An 8 hour print. I'll set the printer going tomorrow to churn it out. 

It turns out that 17,27,37,47, 19,29,39,49 hole plates compliment what I've got the best (my indexing calculator came in really handy for this), so that's what I've gone with. They make pretty patterns too! The plates on this head are 10mm thick and double sided, so I've got the 9's on one side the 7's on the other. Using PLA+, will update on how well it turns out.


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