# Kidney Stone Surgery



## HMF (Dec 17, 2016)

Those of you who get these stones, all I can say is, drink the water, and follow the diet!

If you don't you are in for a rough ride!

I have had one stubborn one that won't pass, and it has gotten big enough so that now I need surgery.
They tried shock waves (lithotripsy), and it wouldn't break. I make hard stones. 
So now it is a very invasive procedure, which I am having on Monday morning. 
They use a catheter called a ureteroscope to break it up inside the kidney and suck the pic pieces out.
They insert a stent so you pass the rest.
It hurts and you bleed a while.  

Like I said, avoid this, drink lots of water...


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## mikey (Dec 17, 2016)

It's been said that the pain from a kidney stone trying to pass is the closest a man can come to what a woman feels when giving birth. I feel for you, Nelson. Procedure or no, get it done and get it out.


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## FOMOGO (Dec 17, 2016)

Hope it all goes well. That first bladder void after will be memorable. Mike


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## Terrywerm (Dec 17, 2016)

I have not had the pleasure of dealing with kidney stones, and I hope I never do. I've heard some real horror stories about them. Good luck to you, Nels, we'll be pullin' for ya.


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## BGHansen (Dec 17, 2016)

Nels, Good luck with the surgery.  My dad had around 15 of them a year ago with the largest being over 12 mm.  They beat on his back like crazy every two or three weeks trying to bust them up to the point of passing them, but he needed the same surgery you're going to have.  He came through like a champ.  He's really careful about eating chocolate and drinking caramel colored soda (aka Coke, Pepsi) and tries to drink at least 64 oz. of water a day.

You are in our thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery!

Bruce


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## wawoodman (Dec 17, 2016)

Nels,

That's what they did for my very first stone, back in about 91. I've had many more since then, but they either passed or lithotripsy busted them up.

My urologist told me, drink enough water, and it won't matter what you eat. However, I stay away from dark green veggies and soy products. I also take a pill (don't remember which one, of many) that is supposed to control the potassium.

Percocet is your friend! Good luck with the procedure, and the aftermath.


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## HMF (Dec 19, 2016)

Well, I'm back. 

It was pretty bad. First time I took the percocet . Usually ,  I don't need to. Stone was 9mm. Apparently ,  he lasered it, sucked the larger pieces out, and put in a stent. Going to the bathroom after was a bloody mess, and painful. 

The water isn't enough. You have to follow the diet depending on what the stones are made of.  Mine are oxylate, like Woodman no dark green veggies. Even so, you get them.


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## pdentrem (Dec 19, 2016)

I tell my male friends that let me kick them in the jewels and THAT does not hurt as much as a kidney stone. My neighbor was talking to a lady who had three kids and she said the stones hurt more. Some ladies give birth with no problem and others it is hell, so it is tough to quantify the pain levels using child birth.

My stone is about 1/8" in diameter and about .200" long. Took 5 days to pee it out. I used only 3 of the 30 percs that I was given. They gave me .25 of morphin at the hospital, but I process that stuff really slow. I hate painkillers due to how they affect my little brain.
Pierre


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## HMF (Dec 19, 2016)

I worked with a lady hooked on that stuff, vicodin, oxy. My boss had me go to her apartment and call an ambulance when she was catatonic from it. Quite an experience.  So I use as little as I can. 

I barely reacted to the oxy. No sleepiness, drowsiness ,  nothing. It took the edge off the kidney ache. That was it. I switched to Tylenol after it wore off. That worked well.


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## wawoodman (Dec 19, 2016)

Glad you made it through. Hope it's a long time until the next one!


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## juiceclone (Dec 20, 2016)

been there ....done all that ...I drink nothing but cranberry blend drinks or water now ...a LOT of cran/ras/grape/whatever  (Florida..hot).       From observation of friends and associates, it seems that the stones afflict those of us who were in the habit of"frequent" alky consumption in younger years ....... then it gets u years later when u don't "consume" anymore.   Tea  contributes to oxylate stone formation also.


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## HMF (Dec 20, 2016)

Tea and iced tea is death.
Doc told me lemon and lemonade citric acid attack the stones and prevent formation.

I did drink a lot when younger so that is interesting .


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## Franko (Dec 20, 2016)

Good luck on the recovery, Nels.

I had a stone removed a few years ago. Recovery was complicated by my enlarged prostate. It took 3 weeks before they could remove the catheter. That was no fun.

The pain and inconvenience did have an upside. I got intubation sore throat that lasted almost two weeks. I smoked a lot of cigarettes at the time, but my throat was so sore I couldn't smoke. I took advantage of the couple weeks of non-smoking and quit cigarettes forever. I don't know that I could have done it any other way.

The moral: The light at the end of the tunnel isn't always a train.


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## eugene13 (Dec 20, 2016)

Get well quick


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## wawoodman (Dec 20, 2016)

Just about any of the Crystal Light drinks are fine, according to my urologist. The first ingredient is citric acid.


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## HMF (Dec 20, 2016)

I drink Crystal Light lemonade .  It melts the calcium. Their ice tea has oxylate .


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## bosephus (Dec 22, 2016)

how are you feeling now Nels  

i have had small kidney stones every three years like clockwork since my early 20's  , knock on wood  so far they have all been tiny and somewhat easy to pass .
so i find it easy to commiserate .

good luck on your recovery and try to take it easy


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## P T Schram (Dec 22, 2016)

I pass kidney stones on an almost daily basis and had oen makes its presence known earlier today.

The last two I was able to recover from the toilet were 5mmX7mm and 8mmX10mm.

They are the largest passed stones my urologist has ever seen. Before I passed the first one, I was in his office and he was scheduling surgery when I handed him the stone. With eyes huge, he asked me how I'd gotten it and I told him it was obvious it was coming out and I just waited to hear it hit the toilet bowl. The second, one I was standing at the toilet and my urine flow stopped... Then, I heard a thunk and saw it in the bowl.

I drink gallons of weak tea with lemon juice added to acidify my urine. I also drink a LOT of beer to try to keep my urine dilute. Drug tests are fun as I'm always accused of intentionally diluting my urine-until they find blood and protein in my urine and when I tell the clinic folks I have chronic kidney stones, EVERYONE in the room crosses their legs and looks pained!

Got my first bad one in 1988 when I was 26. It cost me my flight medical certification and I haven't flown since.


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## HMF (Dec 23, 2016)

P T Schram said:


> The last two I was able to recover from the toilet were 5mmX7mm and 8mmX10mm.
> 
> I drink gallons of weak tea with lemon juice added to acidify my urine. I also drink a LOT of beer to try to keep my urine dilute. Drug tests are fun as I'm always accused of intentionally diluting my urine-until they find blood and protein in my urine and when I tell the clinic folks I have chronic kidney stones, EVERYONE in the room crosses their legs and looks pained!



An 8mm stone will almost never pass, according to my urologist. He's pretty well regarded out here.
The one I just had broken up was 9mm.
I have passed up to 4mm.

Tea has oxylates - it is FULL of oxylates. If your stones are calcium oxylate, drinking tea, weak or otherwise, will create them.
If that is the case, STOP drinking tea. Never eat rhubarb, spinach or beets. They are high in oxylates.
Google for high oxylate foods, and avoid them like plague.

One summer, I drank Crystal Light ice tea to stay hydrated. I was in the ER soon, with 4 stones.
Drink Lemonade instead with citric acid. That breaks them up.


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## P T Schram (Dec 23, 2016)

Nels said:


> An 8mm stone will almost never pass, according to my urologist. He's pretty well regarded out here.
> The one I just had broken up was 9mm.
> I have passed up to 4mm.



I agree and my urologist said the exact same thing as he was planning to cut me open. Ever since, when I whine about stones, he tells me to wait for them to pass.

Trust me, these stones make their presence known immediately once they decide to leave.



Nels said:


> Tea has oxylates - it is FULL of oxylates. If your stones are calcium oxylate, drinking tea, weak or otherwise, will create them.
> If that is the case, STOP drinking tea. Never eat rhubarb, spinach or beets. They are high in oxylates.
> Google for high oxylate foods, and avoid them like plague.



As long as one drinks enough liquid, along with an acidifying agent, the concentration of both oxylates and the metallic ions in our urine can be kept at a sufficiently low level to avoid formation of stones.

I don't want to drink just the water from our well as it is so hard and full of sodium from the softener that I hae to do something to make it palatable.



Nels said:


> One summer, I drank Crystal Light ice tea to stay hydrated. I was in the ER soon, with 4 stones.
> Drink Lemonade instead with citric acid. That breaks them up.


 The lemon juice does that and it doesn't necessarily break them up, rather it prevents formation.


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## HMF (Dec 23, 2016)

P T Schram said:


> As long as one drinks enough liquid, along with an acidifying agent, the concentration of both oxylates and the metallic ions in our urine can be kept at a sufficiently low level to avoid formation of stones.
> 
> I don't want to drink just the water from our well as it is so hard and full of sodium from the softener that I hae to do something to make it palatable.
> 
> The lemon juice does that and it doesn't necessarily break them up, rather it prevents formation.



I don't mean to argue with you, but if that worked, you would not form them daily. I really think the tea is causing them. I'd  switch to lemon and see what happens.
My urologist says water is the best to drink. Buy bottled if you can if you don't like the well water. The water in NYC is great so I have no excuse why I don't drink it.
They don't open you anymore in the back unless it's huge. They used a scope/catheter up the penis into the ureter and kidney, blasted with a laser, then grabbed the pieces with a basket tool.
The tool is much like a parts picker we use in click repair, with three claws that retract. 

I'm still in discomfort, so passing them is the best option if possible.


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## P T Schram (Dec 23, 2016)

I have had issues with kidney stones for more than 30 years and have finally reduced the size to the point that I rarely even know I pass one. The last bad one was about five years ago and I was in mild pain with occasional horrible pain for about two months-its presence was confimred by the levels of blood and protein in my urine found during a DOT commercial motor vehicle driver physical. In 2000 I missed two months of work due to the eight mm stone that my urologist planned to surgically remove.

I spent many years working in academic and industrial laboratories where I was exposed to halogenated solvents on a daily basis-when I began working in the enviromental field, the use of such solvents was stll very common and in  some cases, is the only accepted method for multiple analyses. It is assumed by my uroligst and I that this is the cause as there is no family history on either side of my family. That said, at 92 my father developed stones on the blood side of his kidneys and his urologist told him tha tthey only see this particular variety on those who live long enough for it to be a problem. Up until that point, I had planned to have one of his transplanted to replace my left kidney which so far has been the only one affected. I've yet to have one in the right kidney.

I lost the microgram of the big stone when I last moved. It was kept out hand to remind me to drink my minimum of one gallon of liquid a day!


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## Downunder Bob (Jan 1, 2017)

Nasty stuff, kidney stones, never had them myself, touch wood, but some of my friends have suffered badly. Drink plenty of water, not tea or coffee and definitely not soda type soft drinks. appears that similar types of food that can cause gout can also lead to stones. Hope you get it sorted soon.


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## pdentrem (Jan 1, 2017)

*I ate just about everything on this list prior to my kidney stone.
Pierre


Foods and Drinks Containing Oxalate*

People prone to forming calcium oxalate stones may be asked by their doctor to limit or avoid certain foods if their urine contains an excess of oxalate.

High-oxalate foods—higher to lower


rhubarb


spinach


beets


swiss chard


wheat germ


soybean crackers


peanuts


okra


chocolate


black Indian tea


sweet potatoes

Foods that have medium amounts of oxalate may be eaten in limited amounts.

Medium-oxalate foods—higher to lower


grits


grapes


celery


green pepper


red raspberries


fruit cake


strawberries


marmalade


liver


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## Scruffy (Jan 1, 2017)

Never had these but my eyes are watering just thinking about it.hang in their nels.
Thanks scruffy


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## Richard White (richardsrelics) (Feb 8, 2017)

Literally just passed my second "major" stone this past Tuesday... I say major in relative terms to the size I have experienced.
While mine was not nearly as big as some mentioned, I have only had to visit an ER once, and that was for a 3mm stone and that mofo HURT!..  
I have shattered my pinky finger left hand into four pcs and took no pain killers.  Them stones, are monster pain producers.  
The last one passed within 3 hours, and since the ER visit I have had about 7 others, not counting this weeks episode. The previous, save the ER visit and the last, were minor and passed quite easily with minor pain.
The ER Doc told my wife that now I know what it is like to experience childbirth.  My mother has 4 children and has been riddled with over 30 stones. She states she would rather have 30 kids than kidney stones..LOL
I drink gallons of coffee and tea each week, I will have to talk to my doctor about those as he did test the 3mm stone. 
As for veggies. I do not eat those often, they stunt your growth.
I am 6'-5" so I got proof!!!!!  LOL
P T Schram, you live VERY close to me brother


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## Richard White (richardsrelics) (Mar 3, 2017)

Well, this one was unusual as the stone that caused great pain on the 8th did not officially pass until Friday the 24th, no pain, just mild discomfort....I have since started drinking lemonade so we will see if this helps...Stone will be sent to the doctor's to be analyzed.


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## wawoodman (Mar 3, 2017)

I've had bad feelings in my back for a couple of months, but just put if off to lifting in the shop. But a couple of nights ago, I got up to pee and had that ol' familiar feelin', and I'm pretty sure one scraped out. We'll see if the back gets any better.

My biggest problem is that, due to the four stents in my heart, I'm really limited on pain meds. If tylenol doesn't do it, I have to go straight to oxy- or hydro-codone. I can't take naproxen, or ibuprofen, or anything in those families.


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## Silverbullet (Mar 3, 2017)

Nels I'm praying for you. I had the same procedure , no fun spent the time in Jefferson hospital with 105 fever till they did the stent to drain I was clogged up with a bag of stones. Your right it sure hurts , I've been lucky so far none showing on xray . Calcium caused mine now my bones are getting porous taking a vitamin but not calcium. Drink lots of any citrus juice , take cranberry caps , if your prone to infections take dmanose . It's a herb that makes the wall of the bladder fight the bacteria. No side effects is great. Keep safe and drink even beer for that. God bless and heal you quickly .


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## Glenn_ca (Mar 4, 2017)

P T Schram said:


> I agree and my urologist said the exact same thing as he was planning to cut me open. Ever since, when I whine about stones, he tells me to wait for them to pass.
> 
> Trust me, these stones make their presence known immediately once they decide to leave.
> 
> ...



The largest I have passed was 12.5 mm x 9 mm with a 3 mm spur. This was about 12 years ago and on a quiet night you can still hear my screams echoing around the neighbourhood. Prior to that I had one lasered and the biggest problem was the stent they installed which required me to hit the bathroom within 10 seconds of standing up. I decided to remove it myself not realising just how long the string and stent were. I have had smaller ones since that were just as painful if not more so.


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