# Correct size QCTP for Craftsman 6” Lathe



## bama7 (May 26, 2019)

What is the best size QCTP to get for my 101.07301 lathe? Is the AXA to big or should I go with an OXA? I found an AXA steel setup new for $102.00 plus $20.00 shipping. I think that is a good price if the quality is there. Toolots.com is where I found them. Thanks


----------



## matthewsx (May 26, 2019)

Just do some measuring....









						Quick Change Tool Posts
					

Compare the many quick change tool posts for small lathes.




					littlemachineshop.com
				




John


----------



## Nogoingback (May 26, 2019)

OXA should do it.  AXA is too large.


----------



## wa5cab (May 27, 2019)

Agreed.  AXA is a proper fit for an Atlas 10" or 12" but too large for a 6".


----------



## bama7 (May 27, 2019)

OXA is it then. Thanks


----------



## Winegrower (May 27, 2019)

But measure and double check.  A friend just got a 6” Craftsman, bought 0XA and some 3/8” tools...it looks like the tools won’t quite come high enough to get on center.   Might need to shim them up a bit, which is an annoyance.


----------



## wa5cab (May 27, 2019)

Was the 6" Craftsman made by Atlas or by AA or by someone else?

Also, if all of the cutters are going to be too low, the proper solution is a riser block between the tool post and the top of the compound slide.

The AXA is designed for 3/8" cutters and will just hold 1/2" ones.  The 0XA should take I think 1/4" cutters.  And just barely hold 3/8" ones.

The AXA,, BXA and CXA dimensions were set years ago by AFAIK Aloris.  But I don't think that they ever made a 0XA.  Which would mean that there may be no recognized standard for 0XA.


----------



## Z2V (May 27, 2019)

I had the same lathe and used the OXA, it worked well.


----------



## WCraig (May 27, 2019)

wa5cab said:


> [...]
> The 0XA should take I think 1/4" cutters. And just barely hold 3/8" ones.
> 
> The AXA,, BXA and CXA dimensions were set years ago by AFAIK Aloris. But I don't think that they ever made a 0XA. Which would mean that there may be no recognized standard for 0XA.



I don't know about a standard but at least Shars and Allindustrial seem to have the same dimensions for their 0XA tool holders.  For example:







As the diagram says:  'Tool bit capacity Up - 1/2"' with an opening of 33/64".

The 0XA system works fine with my Atlas 618.

Craig


----------



## RJSakowski (May 27, 2019)

My 6" Atlas/Craftsman measures .773" from the top of the compound to the spindle centerline.  From Shars dimensions, I would need a 1/8" shim washer under the OXA tool [post to allow a full 360º rotation of the tool post.  The 001 and 002 OXA tool holders would allow 1/8" to 1/2"  tools on my lathe.


----------



## benmychree (May 27, 2019)

wa5cab said:


> Was the 6" Craftsman made by Atlas or by AA or by someone else?
> 
> Also, if all of the cutters are going to be too low, the proper solution is a riser block between the tool post and the top of the compound slide.
> 
> ...


Aloris did make a tool post years ago that was smaller than the AXA, I had one bought new for a 9" south Bend lathe, they only had one dovetail on the side and L shaped holders to hold tools on the other side, I'd guess that they were about 1 3/4" square.


----------



## WCraig (May 27, 2019)

RJSakowski said:


> My 6" Atlas/Craftsman measures .773" from the top of the compound to the spindle centerline.  From Shars dimensions, I would need a 1/8" shim washer under the OXA tool [post to allow a full 360º rotation of the tool post.  The 001 and 002 OXA tool holders would allow 1/8" to 1/2"  tools on my lathe.


The 1/8" shim is to clear the raised portion of the casting, no?  I notched a tiny bit out of one corner of the tool post to give clearance:




Craig


----------



## bama7 (May 27, 2019)

WCraig said:


> The 1/8" shim is to clear the raised portion of the casting, no?  I notched a tiny bit out of one corner of the tool post to give clearance:
> 
> View attachment 295477
> 
> ...


Is your Shars made of steel or aluminum?


----------



## RJSakowski (May 27, 2019)

WCraig said:


> The 1/8" shim is to clear the raised portion of the casting, no?  I notched a tiny bit out of one corner of the tool post to give clearance:
> 
> View attachment 295477
> 
> ...


That is correct.


----------



## WCraig (May 27, 2019)

bama7 said:


> Is your Shars made of steel or aluminum?


Steel.


----------



## wa5cab (May 28, 2019)

OK.  Then Shars or whomever set the 0XA dimensions didn't follow the AXA/BXA/CXA progression, at least on the slot height, but instead used the same dimension as for the AXA,  

But what is the slot depth?  I can honestly say that this is the first time in 75 years that I have seen anyone use 24th's  of an inch!!!  I just don't think in 12ths or 24ths or 48ths.


----------



## wa5cab (May 28, 2019)

With regard to being able to rotate the tool post through 360 degrees, that is also a problem on the Atlas 10" compounds, too.  The common solution is to either fly cut or mill the raw casting back out of the way.  When the things were originally designed, there was no need for more clearance as everyone just used the lantern type tool holders.  At least on the 10" there is enough meat in the casting to allow you to do that without cutting through the top of the casting.  It is high time that we learn whether or not that is true of the 6" compound slides, too.


----------



## darkzero (May 28, 2019)

According to LMS the OXA tool post size was created by Tormach & LMS.


----------



## WCraig (May 28, 2019)

wa5cab said:


> OK.  Then Shars or whomever set the 0XA dimensions didn't follow the AXA/BXA/CXA progression, at least on the slot height, but instead used the same dimension as for the AXA,
> 
> But what is the slot depth?  I can honestly say that this is the first time in 75 years that I have seen anyone use 24th's  of an inch!!!  I just don't think in 12ths or 24ths or 48ths.


I grabbed a 0XA-size toolholder at random--I think it came from All Industrial.  Using the diagram above, my measurements compared to the diagram:

B:  diagram: 0.516 (33/64") mine: 0.520"
C: diagram: 0.292 (7/24") mine: 0.3-ish" [1]
D: diagram: 1" mine: 1.100"

[1] The surface is rather roughly machined and I get different measurements in different spots.  May also be a little swarf in the way.

I should mention that I don't use any 1/2" tool bits.  I use mostly 3/8" with a few 1/4" and 5/16" here and there.  All HSS so the grind often lowers the cutting lip a little from the nominal tool height.

Using 1/2" size tooling in a 0XA system on a 6 inch lathe reminds me of stuffing a big block V8 motor in a classic VW Beetle.  You might be able to do it but there is no good reason.  Based on the measurements, around 0.200" of the tool shank (40%) is going to be protruding out the side of the tool holder.  The retaining screws are not going to near the centre line of the shank.  

Craig
PS I would guess that the 24th-of-an-inch measurement came from someone who works mostly in metric.  To them, any denominator in the fraction may make as much sense as any other!  My kids learned metric exclusively in school.  When I first did little projects with them they looked at me like I had rocks in my head when trying to measure in sixteenths of an inch.  "Daddy, why not just use millimetres?"  Honestly, they're right!


----------



## wa5cab (May 29, 2019)

The RMKS has produced the poorest threaded fastener system ever seen on this planet.  It only works OK in a Clean Room.  And even there, not very well or for very long.  And many of the basic units are of an inconvenient size for the real world.  In order to use them, you have to multiply or divide by a thousand or a million.


----------



## phubbman (May 29, 2019)

I have a C-man 6" 101.07301 lathe and use a Shars OXA toolpost.  It works just fine.  
I picked the Shars for 3 reasons - 
it's steel, not aluminum, 
it's wedge type, not piston, 
and price.  
They also have just about any tool holder you'd ever need for it.
paulh


----------



## bama7 (May 29, 2019)

phubbman said:


> I have a C-man 6" 101.07301 lathe and use a Shars OXA toolpost.  It works just fine.
> I picked the Shars for 3 reasons -
> it's steel, not aluminum,
> it's wedge type, not piston,
> ...


I will probably buy one tomorrow sometime. I was in hopes of making a trade, but no responses yet.


----------



## wa5cab (May 30, 2019)

The Shars is usually about the best of the Chinese ones.  But inspect everything before you install or use it.  Someone recently reported getting one that had all of the usually Chineseum problems.

Be prepared before you even mount it to have to have a little milling done to the top of the compound slide before you start using it.  Remember that the Toolpost should almost always be sitting square to the lathe's spindle axis regardless of what angle the compound is sitting at.


----------



## bama7 (May 30, 2019)

Are there any USA made QCTPs that are better made and price comparable? I should be getting my gears and motor pulley by Saturday and of course I am way to impatient to get it working. I guess I will just use the lantern stuff for now.


----------



## Nogoingback (May 30, 2019)

The US made brands (Aloris and Dorian) are well made, but cost considerably more than the Asian brands.


----------



## bama7 (May 30, 2019)

Nogoingback said:


> The US made brands (Aloris and Dorian) are well made, but cost considerably more than the Asian brands.


If those are the only reputable American companies no one should fuss to much about the so called”cheap stuff”. Thanks


----------



## bama7 (May 30, 2019)

I just ordered the Shars OXA QCTP Set. Thanks for the guidance.


----------



## wa5cab (May 30, 2019)

AFAIK, neither Aloris or Dorian are options for 0XA anyway.


----------



## wa5cab (May 30, 2019)

One general comment on QCTP cutter holders - My most used tool holder is a 116 (for AXA) made by Yuasa.  Aloris makes one pretty much just like it.  Shars makes a 116 also but I would not recommend that anyone buy one.  And if they do offer a 016 and it is like their 116, I wouldn't buy it, either. 

The Yuasa and Aloris versions each hold two triangular carbide or HSS inserts.  The inserts are oriented such that a long edge of the insert is perpendicular to the spindle axis.  So it can turn and face to a 90 degree shoulder.  The Shars version that I have seen photos of also holds two triangular inserts.  But it has a long edge of each insert oriented parallel to the spindle axis.  So if you are using it for turning, each pass will have to be a little shorter than the preceding one and you will be left with a 120 degree instead a 90 degree shoulder.


----------



## bama7 (Jun 1, 2019)

I got my Shars OXA QCTP and some 1/4” indexable cutters today. I had a step plate to secure it to my compound slide. Now I need a live center and a couple of other items, as well as my two step motor pulley and gears and it will be ready to go. Should be done sometime this coming week.


----------



## phubbman (Jun 5, 2019)

On this lathe, you might be better off with HSS tooling over indexed carbide.  I'm sure many have done a lot of good work using carbide on these, but the machine is pretty light duty and slow speed.  It was designed around HSS tooling and isn't built around taking the heavy cuts at higher speeds where carbide works best.  
Yes, you'll have to sharpen HSS tooling, but the good thing is that you can do it with a standard bench grinder setup.  No-can-do with carbide.


----------



## bama7 (Jun 5, 2019)

I just discovered about the light cuts. My mind was working with just the opposite thoughts as yours. I will dig through my stuff and see if I have any HSS Tooling. Thanks


----------



## phubbman (Jun 11, 2019)

How do you like your new QCTP?


----------



## bama7 (Jun 17, 2019)

I like it, but I am not a machinist. The bottom corners do need to be cut off some to clear when positioning the cutting tool to the work. Someone posted pictures in this thread to show how they trimmed theirs. I normally sell the ones I work on, so I will leave the trimming to the new owner, if there is one.


----------

