# Warning: Children do not try this at home, even with adult supervision!



## randyjaco (Dec 1, 2011)

[video=youtube;E3mzhvMgrLE] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE [/video] 

This is pretty amazing. This has got to be very hard on the blade and the table saw too.

Randy


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## Tony Wells (Dec 1, 2011)

Several parts must be replaced every time that saw is stopped like that. Costs over $200 a pop. And I have read that even damp wood, or green wood can set it off. Cool idea, and better than losing a finger or two....but I think I'll just continue to be careful.


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## Kennyd (Dec 1, 2011)

A new "brake cartridge" is about $70  http://www.toolking.com/industrial-...ionary/sawstop-saws/sawstop-brake-cartridges/

The blade gets embedded into the cartridge and is toast-my blades cost about $100.

Neat technology...but not for me.  Strong rumors float around that they (Sawstop and some gummit bureaucrats) want to make it mandatory in all new saws sold in the US.


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## DMS (Dec 2, 2011)

That is really impressive. I had heard of these before. If I were to buy a table saw, I would likely  get one... known too many people who ended up with their fingers on the floor because of a table saw.


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## churchjw (Dec 2, 2011)

We have 3 of these in our woods lab at a university.  They actually work just like the demo.  They will pop for green wood or if you hit any metal in the wood or if the saw gets bound up any.  We pop 2 to 3  cartridges a semester almost always for a false reason.  But the 1 or so a year that are really fingers make it worth every $0.01.  There is a way to turn the sensor off so that you can cut green or wet wood.  Even without the cool safety feature the ones we have are the smoothest table saws I have ever seen.  They are dead quite when they run and raising or tilting the blade feels like moving a mill table it is so smooth.  Very well made machinery.

Jeff


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## geotek (Dec 2, 2011)

Mention Saw Stop in a wood working forum and it's like throwing gasoline on a fire.
The technology is neat.  So are the mechanics.  The Saw Stop trunion is quite different than a normal table saw.  There is an extra arm that pivots from the back of the trunion that holds the arbor and blade.  So this requires one additional belt.  The pivot point of this arm acts like a fuse.  It is normally locked, but when the cartridge fires and jams the front of the blade, the momentum of the blade causes the locked pivot point to "break" and the blade instantly pivots down and back.
The cartridge uses a soft aluminum piece that is driven into the blade by a mondo spring.  Normally the spring is held back by a fusible link inside the spring.  The electronics package blows this fuse and releases the cartridge.
Neat stuff, but Saw Stop's political actions is what is making woodworkers angry.  Steve Gass has spent thousands of dollars promoting his device to the CSPC.  He is demanding that ALL table saws use this type of protection device.  A device he has the patent on (remember, he is a patent attorney).  He had tried to license his invention to most all table saw manufacturers, but they saw the costs and maintenance issues.  In a lawsuit a few years ago a person who was misusing a table saw was awarded over a million dollars from Ryobi, because they claimed Ryobi should have installed the Saw Stop device in their machine.  Guess who was the main person behind this?
I think the idea is good, but I wouldn't have it on my machine.  The riving knife has done much to prevent kick-backs, and that's where most of the injuries originate.


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## Tony Wells (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't really think the entire idea is to prevent all injuries, but to mitigate the damage. 8 teeth chewing into your palm and stopping and pulling away sounds much better than 8000 teeth while you think about jerking back.


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## Tony Wells (Dec 3, 2011)

Well Dave, I eat catfish with my fingers, and she best leave them alone, or we'll have a problem!:biggrin:


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## chief (Dec 5, 2011)

My Dad was a Master carpenter all his life and never lost a finger, and i have all kinds of saws and still have all my fingers and I'm no carpenter, but I am a safety nut.
But if they start putting this safey device on all the saws in schools in the USA I can see Tax's going up every where, :nono:


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## Kennyd (Dec 5, 2011)

chief said:


> My Dad was a Master carpenter all his life and never lost a finger, and i have all kinds of saws and still have all my fingers and I'm no carpenter, but I am a safety nut.
> But if they start putting this safey device on all the saws in schools in the USA I can see Tax's going up every where, :nono:



What will really suck is if they mandate it for schools and workplaces, they will probably also demand all the current equipment to be destroyed to "protect" the public from it. Lots of great iron to the scrap yards.


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## 4R8 (Dec 6, 2011)

I've got to say it's amazing. 
I see it from both sides of the fence. The pro's and con's.

I believe this should be mandatory in places of education - You get a scare without the pain.

As for professional organisations, I believe that should be up to the organisation itself. 

There are many things that have been designed / invented which have become mandatory. Different countries have different products. I believe this bloke may end up getting his way as safety and injury prevention is the flavour of this decade. The amount of money the company i work for pays for "ideas", let alone equipment to improve safety - be it personnel or equipment related, is astounding but it has changed my industry from one of the hardest/most dangerous to a comfortable, safe environment (most of the time)

Jason


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## churchjw (Dec 6, 2011)

Kennyd said:


> What will really suck is if they mandate it for schools and workplaces, they will probably also demand all the current equipment to be destroyed to "protect" the public from it. Lots of great iron to the scrap yards.



Hey Kennyd 
Never thought of that.  If this kind of law passes we could all pick up new saws at the scrap yard cheep. :thinking: Over all I think its a good idea for schools and shops but I don't think I would like a law that requires it.  Unless of course the guys gives the patent rights away for free. :lmao:

Jeff


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## Video_man (Dec 6, 2011)

On a related topic, I just saw an offer of $100 to turn in my nearly 40-year-old Craftsman radial arm saw because it can't be retrofitted with some kind of blade guard.  They don't make 'em as good as this saw any more, it's worth a lot more than $100 to me, and I've used it without incident all these years.  I think I will just keep it and continue using some common sense while I do so.  Worked for me so far.:biggrin:


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## Tony Wells (Dec 6, 2011)

Videoman, for a time, they also offered  a retrofit kit that also included a new table. I kept my old dangerous saw, but got a new table. Emmerson built all the saws they are dealing with, so if yours falls under that "recall", you can get a new table.


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## Kennyd (Dec 6, 2011)

churchjw said:


> Hey Kennyd
> Never thought of that. If this kind of law passes we could all pick up new saws at the scrap yard cheep.



You remember the Cash-for-Clunkers program a few years ago?  *All* cars traded in where destroyed per goverment mandate.


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## churchjw (Dec 6, 2011)

Kennyd said:


> You remember the Cash-for-Clunkers program a few years ago?  *All* cars traded in where destroyed per goverment mandate.



How true.  That would be just like the government to do. :banghead:

Jeff


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## Tenn (Dec 10, 2011)

"jawdrop:  Awesome technology but I like common sense and personal responsability better ! :thinking:


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## Richard D (Jan 12, 2012)

I think it would be better to teach the kids to be safe. This might cause them to be careless.


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## Tony Wells (Jan 13, 2012)

I've worked through the patent process 26 times, and it takes a long time, a good patent attorney, and lottsa bucks. It can be worth it, for the right product, though.


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## HMF (Jan 13, 2012)

The problem with this device is that it gives people working in a shop a false sense of security and they get careless on other machines that don't have a stop.
So they won't get mangled by the table saw, but maybe a band saw or router table.

I noticed the guy wet his finger. What if your hands are dry?


Nelson


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## Tony Wells (Jan 13, 2012)

TOM REED said:


> Have any of your patents prove out to financial gain for yourself and how was your experience with the patent attorneys?  tom




If you hire your own attorney, as staff, it's pretty good. Consider that the continuation of their employment is contingent upon their work ethics, their enthusiasm for your product, and making the boss happy........they are pretty easy to work with. Hiring outside? Not so sure, as they of course have other clients, and it would be a different situation. Been through that another time. Took years. Well, it still takes a couple of years, anyway, but longer if the process is mixed with other projects in the attorney's office. 

As far as financial gain, I can't comment on that, due to ongoing litigation.


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