# Quick Change Tool Post Question



## Armourer (Oct 3, 2016)

I am looking at getting a QCTP for my 12" lathe but I am a not sure what I should be looking for. I see there are piston type, wedge type, and different holders like AXA, OXA, and so on and so on. I was just wondering what I should be getting for my lathe. Which is better, which has better features? What  should I be paying for one? I have seen them listed from $175-$2000. Thanks


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## Bob Korves (Oct 3, 2016)

Wedge type tool posts are purported to repeat better than the piston type, and are also said to be more rigid.  The wedge style also costs more.  I think you would have to check carefully side by side to notice any difference in actual use.  For a few dollars more I would get the wedge style, for a lot more I would choose the cheaper one.  12" lathes are about in the middle between AXA and BXA sizes, also called 100 and 200 series, respectively.  In reality, the lathe swing has nothing to do with it.  What is important is the height from the top of the compound where the tool post will tighten down, to the center line from spindle to tailstock.  Manufacturer's and sellers usually list that dimension range somewhere in their literature, but not always.  The model numbers are a sort of industry standard, or perhaps rather knockoff copies of other brands, so you are pretty safe checking other brands for the dimensions if the one you are contemplating buying does not list that dimension.  I have found almost no correlation between price and quality on the cheaper units, and sometimes sources change for what sellers currently have on the shelf.  The Aloris and Dorian holders are in a class well above the others, and the prices reflect that.

A couple years ago I bought some quite nice BXA tool holders from CDCO, at the lowest price I could find anywhere.  Your mileage may vary...


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## BGHansen (Oct 3, 2016)

I have wedge styles from CDCOtools.com and All Industrial Tool Supply off eBay.  My Grizzly has a piston style, came with the lathe.  Like Bob mentioned about rigidity, wedge style use the dovetail to pull the flat back side of the tool holder into the tool post body; more contact area.  The piston style push the tool holder away from the tool post body and jam the dovetails together; less contact area and possibly less rigidity.

My Clausing 12 x 24 has a BXA - 200 series QCTP on it, works great.  The BXA on the 14 x 40 Grizzly works fine also.  I also have a BXA on a Rockwell 10 x 36; works but probably should have an AXA.  You should be fine with a BXA.  I have at least 20 tool holders from CDCO, never had an issue.  Some guys have commented on the site that their tool holder set screws were soft and/or tapped off line.  I must be lucky, never had a problem.

Guys who have Aloris QCTPs love them.  I'm a hobby machinist and just can't pull the trigger on a $65 Aloris BXA simple turning tool holder when I can get them for $11 each from CDCO.  I have no experience with Aloris, maybe I'm missing the boat and they are that much better.

Price is a driving factor, but past experience can sway me - point being I don't always go for the cheapest.  This past Saturday I bought a MIG welding cart from Harbor Freight for $45 minus a 20% discount coupon.  Looked at the 190A MIG welder for $270, but drove down to Tractor Supply Company and bought a Hobart Handler 190 for $700 minus a 10% discount coupon.  The Hobart is replacing a HF 140 MIG welder purchased about 30 years ago that I could never get to feed wire at a consistent speed.  I figure whatever is in my shop will become my son's, no sense giving him two HF MIG welders with problems!  Ran about 2 feet of weld bead with the Hobart yesterday, my welds look like a pro did them (thanks to the machine).

Bruce


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## Tozguy (Oct 3, 2016)

As Bob said, the limitation is the space between the compound and spindle axis of your lathe. Also consider the shank size of your cutting tools. My 12x36 lathe uses the 200 size without issues. I prefer the BXA size to the AXA size but do get the dimensions of the tool post and holder before you buy and calculate if you can get your largest tool on centre.


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## Bob Korves (Oct 3, 2016)

BGHansen said:


> (snip)
> Guys who have Aloris QCTPs love them.  I'm a hobby machinist and just can't pull the trigger on a $65 Aloris BXA simple turning tool holder when I can get them for $11 each from CDCO.  I have no experience with Aloris, maybe I'm missing the boat and they are that much better.(snip)
> Bruce


I have never owned Aloris or Dorian tool holders, but I have used both, and they are VERY nice.  I am just too damned cheap to spend the money for them...  Also, I am a hobby machinist and they do not get used enough to justify the difference or for the cheap ones to become really annoying...


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## Jester966 (Oct 3, 2016)

I have been using the Chinese made tool posts and holders (AXA, wedge type) on both my lathes.  I find the fit and finish great, and they work flawlessly.  Aside from the soft set screws, which have all been replaced, I see no reason to spend any more money on the more expensive ones.

That said - I have never used Dorian or Aloris.  To those who have - what makes them worth the higher price?  What are the rest of us missing?


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## Ulma Doctor (Oct 4, 2016)

if your paycheck is dependent on your toolpost buy Dorian or Aloris, if not an import clone will be just fine
a wedge is more rigid, but a piston type is generally pretty darn good too
i own and use import AXA clones on a 12"(piston type) and  9" (wedge)  lathes
i do notice a profound difference when parting, the wedge is superior .
you can get AXA toolholders for tooling up to 5/8"(16mm) square
axa wedge for a 12" - that'd be the way i'd go if i were going down the road again
the BXA is nice but it can get in the way and takes up extra swing that id rather keep, with limited real estate


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## Bob Korves (Oct 4, 2016)

Jester966 said:


> I have been using the Chinese made tool posts and holders (AXA, wedge type) on both my lathes.  I find the fit and finish great, and they work flawlessly.  Aside from the soft set screws, which have all been replaced, I see no reason to spend any more money on the more expensive ones.
> 
> That said - I have never used Dorian or Aloris.  To those who have - what makes them worth the higher price?  What are the rest of us missing?


The best things about Aloris tool holders are the accurate fit and finish so everything works smoothly, and the height adjustment on the tool holders that has a keyed washer in a slot in the stud to positively separate the adjusting nut from the lock nut, like quality bicycle wheel axle cone adjusters.  You can buy the adjusting post kit separately from Aloris for about $20 IIRC, but I can buy two complete tool holders for about that much from CDCO.


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## mikey (Oct 4, 2016)

Jester966 said:


> That said - I have never used Dorian or Aloris.  To those who have - what makes them worth the higher price?  What are the rest of us missing?



I have two AXA wedge-style tool posts in use on my 11" Emco lathe, one Aloris and one Dorian, and both are hardened and machined nicely. The finish is definitely better on the Dorian - a very nicely made post. There is very little play in them and they lock very solidly and do not loosen in use. The tool holders are also hardened and machined nicely. As Bob says, the tabbed washer between the two adjusting nuts on top of the holder tends to hold the settings well so the tool stays on center better. This allows them to repeat better than the Chinese tool holders I also have and I have no doubt about that. 

None of my tools chatter with the Aloris/Dorian holders or my Chinese holders. If there is a difference between the holders it would be that the Aloris holders tend to be slightly heavier and larger in general and the machining is more consistently good vs the Chinese holders. The screws tend to be high quality on the Aloris holders vs generic screws on the import holders.

In terms of which of the posts is better, I think they are both just as good. If I had to choose only one I would probably choose the Dorian - everything is made finer, including the thread pitches used, and it just feels slightly smoother. The Aloris is nearly the same size but somehow feels more massive, even though it isn't. I just own them because I like good tools and I only want to buy them once.


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## rbjscott (Oct 5, 2016)

I have a 2oo Phaze 2 tool post with (AXA Size) with Aloris tool holders that I would like to sell. Six tool holders. Two are insert type holders also boring bar holder.  $450 for set plus shipping.


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## TakeDeadAim (Oct 5, 2016)

I have a piston type Grizzly 200 size that came with my lathe.  Had it not come with the machine I most likely would have bought a wedge type. But a bit of fitting and I have been happy with the Griz toolpost and I most likely will not wear it out and it wont get replaced.


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## Splat (Oct 5, 2016)

Multifix type post and tool holders. Check them out. Arguably better repeatability than the wedge type systems. I've got a Multifix setup I got from Create Tool in China. I like it way more than my wedge type Phase II system. I think over time I'll come to love it. If you're going to spend the $ on an Aloris or Dorian setup than you owe it to yourself to check a Multifix system out.


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## bfd (Oct 5, 2016)

I have used aloris holders at work for years and they stand up to all kinds of use and abuse I have an enco set at home could not justify the  of the higher price at home for hobby use. the enco set works well at home where it doesn't get the abuse of multiple users. enco stuff works good. all are wedge type have not used piston type. there is another type I used at the shipyard, kirklie blocks you can see them on ebay. this type you can make yourself. I did and used them on my enco lathe. no difficult machining of this type (internal dovetails) I don't think most people will be able to see a difference in usage. ge what you can justify and or afford.


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