# Just got an Index 645...



## NorseDave (Oct 13, 2017)

and I have no idea what I'm doing!  Needless to say, there will be many inane questions and such to follow, as I have zero machining background.  But it's a skill I've been interested in learning for a while now, so I'm looking forward to doing just that.  

It's probably a strange route to take, buying a machine with no experience, but its worked out for me with welding, so hopefully this will follow a similar path.  I considered getting a membership to one of the "maker spaces" somewhat near me, but for a 6 month membership, I could own a mill instead.  I've also heard pretty mixed reviews on the skill levels of the folks that work there and are supposed to help you learn.  

Anyway, I'll get started with some pics and then some initial questions.  The mill was on Long Island, about 200 mi away from me.  The mileage didn't really bother me, but having to drive through NYC w/ a trailer during the week is not my idea of fun.  Fortunately, once I got there, loading was not a problem.  Hallelujah! 




The next day, I had to resort to a somewhat lower tech, more physically intensive method to get it off the lift and into place.  I'm quite happy I rented the lift deck trailer - made the whole process far less frightening. 




I ran one ratchet strap around the back of the mill and anchored it to the pair of rings at the end of the trailer.  I kept another strap around the throat of the machine and anchored to the forward part of the trailer, which was still attached to the truck.  I then gave the upper strap some slack, used the lower strap to slide it on the trailer until the upper strap was taut, and repeated the process,  gradually inching it off the trailer.  I got it onto some wood, then used some wedges and a prybar to slide the pipes underneath of it, eventually maneuvering it into its temporary spot in my shop.  Honestly it was not nearly as bad or as puckering an affair as I expected.  No complaints! 

My knowledge of the mill itself came mostly from watching a few YouTube vids about the W-I stuff, as well as reading various forums.  The guy I bought it from was closing down his father's business and he indicated that it had basically been used as a drill press for the last umpteen years.  He didn't really know anything about it, and the guy that knew how to run it had been gone for almost a decade.  It certainly needs a good cleaning, which I've just barely started on. 

What I've figured out so far:
- Serial # 9746 I think (going from memory), 9x46 table. 
- table, saddle, and knee all move through full range of motion.  Could probably be a bit smoother, but not horrendous.  
- motor runs quietly.
- quill goes down smoothly, a bit slow on the return once you let off it though. 
- quill power feed works.  This was interesting trying to figure out without any instructions, but I got it after a bit of head scratching and fiddling.  Not sure if the mechanism that disengages it when it hits the stop works, I forgot to try that.  
- table power feed partially works.  Kind of.  The feed part works, but the power part is missing!  If I put it in the slowest feed rate, I can turn the gearbox shaft by hand, and see the table move.  
- table surface is a bit rough with some drill holes.  Ways look pretty good, just needed a bit of cleaning.  
- has a Bijur (sp?) oil system installed.

Now on to the interesting stuff.  

First, I'm not sure if it happened during moving, or if it was like that before, but the handle that releases the tension on the belts was FUBAR.  Cracked in two places.  It was somehow wedged against the machine such that it would run, but as soon as I moved it, it fell into 3 pieces.  So, task #1 was to fab a new handle.  After much cutting, bending, welding, and grinding, a new handle was put into service. 




Next up, a bit of a puzzlement.  The housing on the right side of the table, where the hand wheel, lead screw, etc. attach to the table, has been welded back together   I have no idea what to make of this, other than it must have taken one heck of a hit.  Only the one side shows any welding though.  




The usual pics of the table, ways, etc. 





The oil reservoir for the oil system looks like it came off a WWII-era submarine.




Finally, I'll end with a question.  This is under the table at the front.  Is this the mechanism for adjusting the table?  Is that crack supposed to be there?  The other side looks pretty much the same, with a similar  crack.  It looks too even for it to be a mistake, but the welding on the table housing has me a little spooked.  




I'm looking forward to learning both this machine and how to use it and appreciate any and all input from those of you with far more experience than I!


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## azshadeguy (Oct 13, 2017)

NorseDave said:


> and I have no idea what I'm doing!


I have 2 mills and I know nothing about how to use them


NorseDave said:


> Is that crack supposed to be there?


I hope so cause there is one on my 745


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## brino (Oct 13, 2017)

Congratulations!
Getting a new machine home is always exciting.

I cannot speak about local maker-spaces......I think it's a great idea, but it _could_ be hit or miss depending on the people involved.
I'd suggest that you could use this forum and you-tube to learn much of the basics.

Good job on the equipment move. Slow and steady!

You're smart to be worried about that repair near the table crank........though It looks brazed, not welded.
That kind of thing always makes we wonder how it happened.....was the machine was tipped over/dropped during a previous move, or did something heavy run into it?
That fact that the table moves to it's limits in all three directions is great, it means no ways are broken and no lead-screws are bent.



NorseDave said:


> Is that crack supposed to be there?



I am NOT familiar with that machine, but to me it looks like an adjustment to the gib.
I bet if you remove that set-screw/bolt you will see that the either the bolt or the hole is tapered such then when it's tightened in it expands the gib to adjust for wear.

Please keep us updated with your progress on cleaning and repairs.

-brino


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## brino (Oct 13, 2017)

....a couple more things:

1) Welcome to the site!

2) if you haven't found them yet there is some info on that machine here:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/index/
and here:
http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=2280&tab=3

Unfortunately, I did NOT see a manual for the 645 at that last site, but other models may be similar.
Also, let me check a couple more places......

--brino

Edit: ...and do you know what the spindle taper is?


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## NorseDave (Oct 13, 2017)

Thanks for the help guys, this is just the beginning for sure!  

I have looked at those two sites, and Rick Robison from Wells Index even emailed me a pdf of the brochure for the 645.  Amazing customer service considering I was asking him about a ~50 year old mill, not talking about buying a current or even remotely recent one!  

I was thinking that "crack" was probably for adjustment somehow, I will have to remove that set screw and have a look. 

It has the B&S 9 (well, I assume it's 9) taper.  Definitely not R8.  Along with the mill I got a giant drilling vise (as seen in the one pic) that has about 1000 drill marks in it, (including one that's nearly halfway through the lead screw) and a bucket of "stuff".  I emptied the bucket once home, and was delighted to find 5 BS9 collets, 1/8-5/8 in 1/8" steps.  There were also 6 (!) drill chucks - 5 US-made Jacobs, and one Chinesium no-name.  Also a few things that I frankly have no idea what they are.  I took a pic of everything, but don't have it on this computer.


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## brino (Oct 13, 2017)

Dave,

My search for the manual has come up empty....mostly people looking for it.
Are you comfortable sharing the PDF manual? 
If so, you could upload it to the "downloads" section here, or if you're unsure how, send it to me in a PM and I'll post it with a link in this thread.

If required, Daryl (aka. UglyDog) has some B&S #9 tooling available:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/collet-identification-help-needed.62997/#post-519123

Post your pictures of "unknown objects" here. 
Someone will ID them.

-brino


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## NorseDave (Oct 13, 2017)

No manual, just a brochure (which is still kinda cool).  I'll try to upload...


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## T. J. (Oct 13, 2017)

Congrats on the mill Dave! I have a 645 as well, about which I have an ongoing thread in this forum. I'll do my best to answer any questions I am able to.

The "crack" that you are concerned about is in fact the gib for the table ways. The set screw you can see locks the gib in place. To adjust the gib, you would first remove that screw. Then, there is another screw behind it which moves the gib in and out.

The gear housing on the right end of my table was broken/repaired as well. I suspect these injuries are due to a crash event. I would encourage you to disassemble that housing and inspect the gears, bearings, and the end of the feed shaft. Mine were pretty buggered up. You can see some details in my thread. 

It sounds like you just need a motor for your table feed gear box. It takes a standard 1/4 HP motor. 

Instruction manuals with assembly drawings are available from W-I.  They are $50 if I remember correctly. It seems a little much for photocopies, but the drawings are indispensable. 

And by the way, nice job on the tensioning handle!


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## 4GSR (Oct 13, 2017)

My Serial Number Reference Book says yours was born sometime in the year of 1963. 
Your 645 is about three years older than mine.  From your pictures everything pretty much matches up with mine. 
The picture showing the  underside of the table, looks like a crack just above the gib screw,  it maybe.  Insert a Allen wrench in the set screw and remove.  Then, take the allen wrench and reach down in the gib and back out the second set screw to get the gib out.  With the gib out of the way, you should be able to tell more if that is cracked or broken off.  If it's not broken, don't mess with it, just leave it as is, it won't hurt anything. 
The Bijur oil pump is probably the same one that they have been using since their beginnings.  That oil pump I was told is the same one used the Packard Automobile.  Have no clue if this is true or not.  Anyways, the broken and repaired piece on the end of the table, Mines broke off, too.  I carefully drilled ad tapped a couple of holes and bolted the broken piece back on.  You can purchase a new manual from Well-Index for a few dollars.  Some replacement parts are still available for purchase.

T.J beat me to it!


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## T. J. (Oct 13, 2017)

One thing I forgot to mention regarding your first post - the quill isn't supposed to retract on its own like a drill press. There is a spring inside the housing where the handle attaches that only functions to counterbalance the weight of the quill. In other words, the quill should stay put when you let go of the handle. If it doesn't, the spring can be adjusted.


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## 4GSR (Oct 13, 2017)

When you decide to unload another piece of machinery, place your strap as low to the bottom as you can.  Where it is now, if it had got away from you going down that ramp, it would have flipped on it's back before you could blink an eye!  Try to be safe.  We don't like to hear about the one that got away.  You can't beat that trailer, they are nice.  Ken


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## 4GSR (Oct 13, 2017)

I see now what you are referring to.  The end of the gib looks as it has been broken off.  W-I did not finish the end of the gibs.  What you are looking at is the "as cast" surface.  Its fine.  Mine are the same way. Ken


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## NorseDave (Oct 14, 2017)

Interesting that the end housing seems to be broken on everyone's machine.  I guess i'll stop worrying about it. 

TJ, I found your thread when I was researching the mill before I bought it, and have been following along for sure.  I actually recounted your mill retrieval debacle to the guy I bought mine from, and he said "is that why you asked twice if I had a machine that could load it on a trailer?"  Sure was!  Strangely, on eBay the seller listed it as a Model 55, but it was clear in the pictures it was a 645, most notably the pic showing the mfr plate with "Model 645" on the top.

Anyway, thanks for the info on the gib adjustment.  I will do a little YouTube hunting and start playing with that.  I thought I could see when watching carefully from underneath that the table had a bit of a wavy motion as I cranked it along.  I imagine it hasn't been adjusted in ... a decade at least. 

Ken, thanks for the word of caution on unloading.  I never really let it go "down" the ramp exactly, once the front started to show light I used some wedges to keep it basically level until it was clear.  Then I used a pry bar to gradually pull the wedges and get it on the pipes, so it was never more than a few degrees off of upright.  But duly noted.  I suppose the best approach would be a pair of straps - one low as you suggested, and one high where I have it.


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## NorseDave (Oct 18, 2017)

I've had some time over the last few days to spend a little more time w/ the 645.  First off was, is, and shall be for a while - cleaning.  I mean, at least below the saddle, this thing clearly hasn't seen a rag since, well, possibly when it was made.  Step one was a scraper.  I'd say that's a good 1/16" thick layer of yuck. 




After some scraping, shop vac'ing, and Goof-Off'ing (not to be confused with goofing off), I got it a bit more presentable.




Obviously not done, but ran out of paper towels! 

After that, I started poking around a bit more.  The head nod seems to work swell - I took it over to 15-20* in each direction and it was no problem.  The head tilt was great in one direction, but seemed a bit wonky in the other.  I'll have to play with that a bit more. 

Which brings up my next question - how do you adjust the ram travel fore/aft and the ram rotation about the turret?  The top looks like this:




I assumed I needed to loosen the two nuts near the front and back, and then twist the shaft that sticks out towards the back of the pic.  But with the two nuts loose, the shaft didn't want to turn.  I loosened that 3rd nut (under the power cable in the pic) but that didn't make any difference, and the stud it was on seemed to turn as well.  I was also expecting to find a pair of corresponding nuts on the other side of the ram, but they weren't there.  I can see the chain on the underside of the ram, so I know there's something to turn to move it in/out.   

To rotate the ram on the turret I assume I need to loosen all 4 bolts on the underside of the top of the turret (you can see the indent for one in the above pic), but then is rotating a manual operation?  Or is that the shaft I see towards the back in the above pic?

Here is the collection of stuff that came with the mill (not including a heavy duty but very beat up drill vise).




So there's a bunch of drill chucks, more chuck keys than I'll ever use in a lifetime, a set of collets (1/8-5/8 in 1/8 inc), a couple of T-nuts that were holding the vise, and then the stuff on the right.  Okay, the one is for mounting a chuck into a Morse taper, but the two on the far right I'm clueless on.  The 2nd from right appears to be just a big as f*** drill bit for boring, or maybe it's for threading said enormous holes?  Really no idea, but I don't see me using that.  What is it mounted in though?   And then the thing on the far right, no idea.  I can turn the lower "bowl" part maybe 45* separate from the top part, but that's it.  Doesn't obviously come apart, or loosen it's grip on anything.

Finally, is a drawbar really just as simple as a threaded rod?  I'm reasonably certain this particular one was not stock!  The dark part directly under the nut is threaded, is that what the real drawbar is supposed to thread to?


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## 4GSR (Oct 18, 2017)

First, the ram not moving in or out.  There should be four studs with nuts clamping the ram to the column.  I only see three and a hole where there should be a fourth bolt.  It's no big deal, should work fine with just three bolts.  Next clean up the dovetails the best you can on the ram and rub oil on the dovetails and under neath too by hand.  Loosen the nuts and back off about two turns.  Next, get you a 4 x 4 block about 12" and a 12 lb. sledge.  This is where you need a third hand to hold the block.  Give the ram a few hits on the sides.  This should break it loose where it will slide.  Next, give it a couple hits on each end and see if it moves.  If it does, put a wrench on the square shaft about midways down the base of the ram and crank it in and out.  Run it all the way it will go from one direction, clean the dovetails and oil.  Crank it to the other end and do the same.


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## 4GSR (Oct 18, 2017)

I see two problems with the drawbar, chop it off to where it only sticks out about 2 to 3".  Next, it is missing the backup nut that screws onto the spindle.  The true drawbar that originally came with that mill had a shoulder that would be trapped under this nut.  This would aid in getting the collets loose from the spindle.  
Those are Brown & Sharpe style collets your mill uses.  Don't over tighten them!  If you do, they will be a bear to get loose.


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## Ulma Doctor (Oct 18, 2017)

i think i have a manual
but here is something until i find it


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## T. J. (Oct 18, 2017)

For the ram - do what Ken said. Be careful, I broke the shaft on mine by trying to turn it with a big wrench without getting it broke free first!

To rotate the turret - loosen the four bolts, then rotate it by hand.


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## NorseDave (Oct 18, 2017)

Awesome, thanks guys!


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## brino (Oct 18, 2017)

As for these:



The left one might be a large reamer or milling bit, but the end looks broken off.
Also, cannot tell what it's mounted in.

The right one might be either:
1) a tapping head like these: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=procunier+tapping+head&t=hb&iax=images&ia=images
2) or a high-speed/low-torque to low speed/high torque converter....basically a planetary gear system in a housing....like this old Versamatic: http://collectiblehardware-tools.com/products/versamatic-drill-speed, but a drill-press version.....

If it was a tapping head, I'd expect it to have a threaded blind hole on the outside for a bar that rests against the drill-press/mill column to keep the housing from rotating during use. Also, it should have a little 4-jaw collet system for grabbing taps.

Better pictures would help for sure.

-brino


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## 4GSR (Oct 18, 2017)

The service manual I have, shows a fairly clear picture of the retainer nut p/n 1133. There's also a washer p/n 1482 that is used. I suggest using a brass or aluminum bronze washer, not 660 bronze.  This will help making up and breaking out things.  On mine, the end of the spindle was damaged, been hit on too many times and the threads damaged. The nut was missing as well as the draw bar, like on yours.  I machined the remaining threads completely off, beveled the inside edge with a healthy bevel.  Made a spacer that registered on the bevel and face of spindle, then made a brass thrust washer to ride between the bushing and the nut.  Made a draw bar from a piece of drill rod, you can use just about anything you want as long as it is good straight material.  Any cold rolled bar material will work.


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## NorseDave (Oct 25, 2017)

A brief update from today.  I've been shooting some PBlaster on the ram ways for the last few days in hopes that will help free up the ram.  No luck yet, but I just re-read Ken's suggestion and realized I haven't hit it from the side.  I will have to give that a try.

In more exciting news, I actually ran it and made holes with it today!  I have some stuff that I make that requires putting ~2" holes in 1/8" steel tubing.  My current drill press (Powermatic 1150) only goes down to about 450rpm, which is way too fast for that size hole saw.  So I thought I may as well see how the 645 does on that job on a piece of scrap tubing.  And the answer is, wonderfully!  Far less drama than doing it w/ the drill press.  I have it running at the 145rpm setting, used the power downfeed, and it just plain worked with no fuss whatsoever.  Also gave me a much nicer finish on both the top and underside of the tubing.  So I'm pretty pleased with that. 

I did encounter one puzzler that I'm sure someone here can shed some light on.  I also tried just a plain twist drill - about 3/8", don't remember exactly - and the power downfeed kicked out way before it had hit the vertical stop that is supposed to kick it out.  I think it was probably right around when the full diameter of the drill got into the metal.  I recall someone mentioning in another thread there is an adjustment for the downfeed clutch, is that what I need here?  Possibly related, are these little shims supposed to be like this?


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## T. J. (Oct 25, 2017)

Those 'shims' act as a spring to keep the clutch engaged.  You can adjust the tension by turning the nut underneath them.  It has a set screw that may have come out and allowed it to loosen.  When I get home this evening, I'll take a pic of the clutch adjustment instructions from my manual.


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## ezduzit (Oct 25, 2017)

You need to get the manual.


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## T. J. (Oct 25, 2017)

I've had another couple of thoughts. 

1) Was the clutch slipping, or did the clutch handle actually trip?  If it tripped, the problem may not be in how it is adjusted. One possibility is a broken spring in the clutch latch.  Does the clutch engage and disengage crisply, or does it take some fiddling?

2) This is unrelated to your present problem, but have you checked the oil in the spindle feed gearbox?  (The sight glass on the side). The early 645's like yours and mine had oil in the upper half of the gear box, while the later ones were packed with grease.


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## NorseDave (Oct 25, 2017)

TJ - As near as I could tell, the clutch was not slipping.  It just tripped on the 3/8" drill bit, but not on the 2" hole saw.  The only fiddling I have to do is to actually get the feed to engage.  It's not that the yellow handle above is hard to push in, but it's sort of a balancing act between keeping it pushed in and turning that L-shaped lever to lock it.  I just assumed that's normal - I'm already better at it now than I was last week!  But it disengages quickly and without drama.

I have not checked the oil levels - I've looked at the sight glasses, but they are so yellowed / dirty / whatever that they're not much good at the moment.  At some point I need to at least pull the sight glasses and clean them up so they're actually functional.  

EZ - no argument there, it's on the list.  My understanding is it's less of a manual and more of an exploded parts diagram though.  No?


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## T. J. (Oct 25, 2017)

Here's the actual clutch adjustment instructions from the manual. The instructions for adjusting the quill counterbalance spring are there too. 

When engaging the clutch, it should latch by itself without having to mess with the trip lever. The fact that you're having to fiddle with the lever makes me suspicious that the spring inside is either broken or missing. Take the latch housing off and have a look. There should be a crescent shaped leaf spring behind the square shaft that pushes it out (toward you if you're standing in front of the machine).

If it's indeed missing, it should be fairly inexpensive from W-I. Alternatively, it probably wouldn't be hard to make one if you had some of the right spring steel stock laying around.


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## 4GSR (Oct 25, 2017)

NorseDave said:


> A brief update from today.  I've been shooting some PBlaster on the ram ways for the last few days in hopes that will help free up the ram.  No luck yet, but I just re-read Ken's suggestion and realized I haven't hit it from the side.  I will have to give that a try......................



I doubt PB Blaster is going to break that loose, don't hurt to try.  Another thing to do is at the top of the dovetail is fill it with some good oil like a ISO 46 grade hydraulic oil, from end to end on both dovetails.  Let it soak a few days with the bolts loose.  Every other day add some more oil.  Do this for a couple of weeks.  This give it a chance to soak into the dovetail.  No promise it will get all the way to the bottom, some oil will penetrate down.  At the end of two weeks, try to crank it first, don't force it!  If it don't move then hit the sides with a 4 x 4 and sledge.  If it still don't move soak more oil on the dovetail.  Rather than using PB Blaster, try some Liquid Wrench penetrating oil.  Might try that every other day along with oil treatment.  It'll eventually break loose.


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## T. J. (Oct 25, 2017)

Here's a labeled pic with the parts referenced in the description above


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## brino (Oct 25, 2017)

+1 on what Ken said above but with the little tweak of a "homemade" penetrating oil of 50% acetone and 50% Automatic Transmission Fluid (aka ATF). This stuff is so thin it wicks in almost anywhere and leaves the oil behind. I'd swear it migrates uphill!
-brino


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## 4GSR (Oct 25, 2017)

Brino, you're the man!!!  I couldn't for the sake of it remember that.  Thanks!!! Ken


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## NorseDave (Oct 29, 2017)

I'm not sure if there was anyone thing or just a combo of stuff, but Friday morning I got the ram moving.  After whacking it a few times on the sides and then on the back of the ram, I noticed that the dirt line on the ways seemed to have moved.  Whacked it again on the back, and sure enough the dirt line moved another 1/8".  Put a wrench on the axle and lo and behold it started moving.  Feels a bit notch, but it covers the entire travel without issue.  I didn't have much time Friday, so this week I'll have to give it a better shot of oil along the entire way so it doesn't bind up again. 

TJ, thanks for the accompanying picture, helps a lot!


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## 4GSR (Oct 29, 2017)

Here's a picture of the drawbar arrangement on my 645 mill.


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## NorseDave (Feb 22, 2018)

Well it has been a while between updates.  I'm happy to say that despite the various little issues like the spindle feed randomly (?) popping out, and the missing table power feed, I have been putting the unit to work, at least relatively speaking.  I've done a fair amount of basic drilling with it - and wow it is so much nicer to use than my drill press - but yesterday I did my first actual milling operation.  For a while I've been wanting to build a suitable table extension for my also-vintage Eisele cold saw.  The saw itself is awesome, but the base is only about 30" square, with the blade obviously in the middle.  So if you need to cut, say, 4" off of a 8' long steel tube, that's about 6' of steel tube hanging out in space, which doesn't work.  Long ago I made a very crude work support on a screw base so I had some height adjustment, but it was always intended as a stopgap until I had a proper table extension.  

Anyway, for my design, I needed to cut some small slots in a piece of steel C-channel so I can get the rollers in and out.  I measured, marked, and drilled the channel out a few weeks ago, but once that was done I didn't even have an end mill that I could use to cut the slot.  Finally got a chance to cut the slots out yesterday, and for a first-ever milling operation, I'm happy with how it went.  

The whole process has, however, uncovered a few issues - some with the machine, and some with its operator!  

First, while I will eventually put a DRO on it, right now there isn't one.  The X and Z dials are good, but the Y dial will not lock down.  The set screw gets plenty tight, but it doesn't prevent the dial from spinning.  I'm a little puzzled as to what's going on here.  To compensate for it, I set up a dial indicator for the Y axis and used that to make sure I milled out the same amount on each slot.  

Next, I have tried checking and adjusting the gibs.  Y and Z seem good, but there is considerable movement of the table in the Y direction - that is, if I extend the table over towards one direction, I can push/pull it towards/away from the machine quite a lot.  The dial indicator said something like 7-8 thou.  I can tighten the adjustment screw down to eliminate that, but then the table is very tight to move in the X direction.  I am assuming (possibly incorrectly) that the procedure is the same as Keith Rucker showed on his 845 on YouTube.  And yes, I know I need to call W-I and get the manual!   

And finally, it occurred to me when I started milling out the aforementioned slots that I had absolutely no idea what the correct spindle speed, depth of cut, and feed speed (albeit manual feed) were for that operation.  I assume I should be picking up a machinists handbook of some sort to help answer these questions, but I have no idea which one.  Suggestions?

Thanks all.  I'm barely taking baby steps on this thing, but I'm really enjoying learning how to operate it!


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## T. J. (Feb 22, 2018)

NorseDave said:


> that is, if I extend the table over towards one direction, I can push/pull it towards/away from the machine quite a lot. The dial indicator said something like 7-8 thou. I can tighten the adjustment screw down to eliminate that, but then the table is very tight to move in the X direction.



While the saddle (Y axis) and knee (Z axis) have one gib apiece, the table (X axis) has two gibs.  Did you adjust them both? They are on either end of the front way (toward the operator).


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## NorseDave (Feb 22, 2018)

T. J. said:


> While the saddle (Y axis) and knee (Z axis) have one gib apiece, the table (X axis) has two gibs.  Did you adjust them both? They are on either end of the front way (toward the operator).



Hmm - I was thinking one was an adjustment screw, and the other a lock screw for the adjustment.  No?  If so, that would certainly explain it.


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## T. J. (Feb 22, 2018)

Yes there are two screws per gib. What I was referring to is there are two gibs on the x-axis. Here is a pic of my mill with the table removed. The arrows point to the locations where the gibs would be when assembled.


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## NorseDave (Apr 26, 2018)

Well I'm slowly poking along trying to do stuff, but that is mostly in between actually using it.  I'll admit, at the moment it is getting used more as a drill press than a mill, but I have done some milling work with it, so I don't feel totally ashamed! 

I have encountered a somewhat puzzling issue recently - the belt that drives the spindle (so the lower belt) keeps flipping itself over and running inside-out.  So instead of the \_/ sitting in the grooves of the pulleys, it flips around and the V is actually facing out, mostly.  It of course doesn't sit flat like that, so it is slightly twisted. It doesn't seem to really bother the mill itself too much, other than making a little extra noise that's not there when the belt is on right.  I've tried adjusting the tensioner - both tighter and looser - and neither seem to make much of a difference. It will run for a bit in the right orientation - I don't know, let's say 5 minutes - and then at some point I'll notice the extra noise, and sure enough it's flipped around.  

I'm assuming a new belt would fix the problem, but I've considered that it could also be a pulley alignment issue.  I haven't really looked to see what sort of adjustment there might be for that, if any.  The belt looks okay - definitely not new, but no cracking and has only a little bit of fraying on the edge in one spot.  

In related news, I finally (!) ordered a manual from Well Index.  It is pretty amazing in this day and age that I can call Wells Index up, talk to a real person, and get support for a 50 year old mill.


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## ezduzit (Apr 26, 2018)

Replace the belt.


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## NorseDave (Nov 7, 2018)

Ugh, last update was April?  I'm ashamed.

Anyway, been using the mill while slowly developing a list of stuff I need to fix or sort out, and also gradually expanding my tooling.  Fortunately it came with a set of B&S 9 collets (1/8" - 3/4" in 1/8" increments), but other than that I'm mostly starting from zero.  It did come with a vise, but it was not a milling vise - I'm not really sure what style of vise it is.  Upon removing it, I discovered it's an unfortunately-named KKK vise made in Japan.  I really have no desire to try to search for that on the Googles.  Anyway, I scored a Kurt D60 off eBay for $200 shipped, and other than needing a new pair of jaws, it's in fine shape.  So it's nice to have a real vise on there.

The other day I finally decided to explore why the y-axis dial doesn't lock.  Turns out, somehow the original hand wheel is MIA, which I'll admit I didn't really realize until I started looking at pics of other Wells machines.  What's on there now isn't a wheel at all, just a handle, which is rather annoying when cranking.  Anyway, with the current handle, the sleeve that fits over the keyed shaft slides past the keyway, and since it's not in anyway attached to the handle, it's physically impossible for the dial to lock given the current setup.  So that's no good.  I took off one of the x-axis handwheels and put it on the y-axis and confirmed that it would work properly like that. So, anyone have any hand wheels taking up space? 

Unrelated, anyone have any ideas on why the spindle travel would be reduced?  It only goes to about 4" on the scale vs. the full scale it's supposed to be. And yes, the travel stops are out of the way!


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## zaaephod (Jan 25, 2019)

NorseDave said:


> Unrelated, anyone have any ideas on why the spindle travel would be reduced?  It only goes to about 4" on the scale vs. the full scale it's supposed to be. And yes, the travel stops are out of the way!



Hi NorseDave,
I recently acquired the same model of mill, and noticed limited quill down feed as well. If you're lucky, your issue will be as simple as mine. The spiral spring behind the quill feed handle was adjusted incorrectly. On my mill, with the quill handle, cover, and inner spring sleeve (it's held in place with a roll pin) removed, I found the quill of the machine would move through its range of motion by hand, pulling it down or lifting it while the quill lock was disengaged.

Do be careful, if you wind the spring without the cover, it looked to me like it could rapidly eject itself into something reminiscent of the old Slinky we all tried in vain to untangle as kids. I'm sure there's a proper technique for adjusting it, but I basically just fiddled with the orientation of the mechanism that engages the inside of the spring until it would rotate through the entire travel of the quill. Looking at the spring, you'd expect it would wind through many revolutions, but that's not the case, it is only just enough to move through the travel of the quill.

I suspect the reason for this condition is because most folks would expect the quill to retract like a drill press, which it's not intended to do, it's only meant to help ease the force required to bring the quill back up. The resulting 'adjustment' would end up with the hook at the end of the spring wedging between the sleeve and the spring, preventing the quill from reaching its full extended position.

Something of note if you do work on this, the sleeve that slips inside the spring has a roll pin through it, but it's not on center, the pin will only go through the assembly at 360 degrees of rotation in relation to the quill feed shaft, I couldn't rotate it only half a revolution. Hope that makes sense.

Hope this helps.
Z


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## NorseDave (Jan 26, 2019)

zaaephod said:


> Hi NorseDave,
> I recently acquired the same model of mill, and noticed limited quill down feed as well....
> Hope this helps.
> Z



Much thanks for the info Z!  I will have to dive in and see what I can find.  The last, ugh, year has been slow on the progress of bringing the mill back into fighting form, so to speak.  I've been using it for stuff and working around the various things that aren't working properly, but one of these days I need to just bite the bullet and tear certain things apart, clean, lube, and rebuild as necessary.


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