# Heavy 10 Paint



## Don T (Feb 23, 2021)

I am getting ready to put my Heavy 10 together. I just got done pouring a slab for it. (A whole different ordeal). Anyway about how much paint do I need to paint the whole lathe. It is the type in this pic complete with base. Thanks


----------



## FOMOGO (Feb 23, 2021)

Oil based enamel in my experience goes a long way. I would think a quart would be plenty, and use in conjunction with a hardener for best results, and longevity. Mike


----------



## Don T (Feb 23, 2021)

FOMOGO said:


> Oil based enamel in my experience goes a long way. I would think a quart would be plenty, and use in conjunction with a hardener for best results, and longevity. Mike


Is that spraying it or using a brush? Thanks


----------



## graham-xrf (Feb 23, 2021)

The requirements for machine paint that will resist the fluids it encounters, be tough, yet still resist chipping. The recommendation is a 1K Alkyd Enamel. There are many suppliers of this type. The best are those sold for agricultural machinery - Like Ford Tractor Blue. One US supplier is Sherwin Williams. This I discovered when one resourceful individual figured out the South Bend paint mix codings.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 _ 
	

		
			
		

		
	







Old and new. I don't know when the change happened.





Oil-based enamel ends up good, but it takes days to harden off. Yes, you can spray these. I was about to try with one of those low cost airless electric spray guns, but up to now, I only used brush, and in some cases, a rattle can. I have yet to open my can of 1K Alkyd. The one can of quart size should be enough.


----------



## FOMOGO (Feb 23, 2021)

Either way. Spraying will require thinning before use. Follow the product instructions. Mike



Don T said:


> Is that spraying it or using a brush? Thanks


----------



## graham-xrf (Feb 23, 2021)

FOMOGO said:


> Either way. Spraying will require thinning before use. Follow the product instructions. Mike


Definitely - and it's a messy business finding out. The little viscosity estimator funnel provided I found awkward. I made up smaller amounts to put in the spray gun container by transferring some paint by small ladle into the cut-off lower part of a milk carton. Then some estimated 5% thinner. I test while using nitrile gloves by filling the test funnel, and letting go the blocking finger, and counting 25 Missippi's, adding a little thinner each time, and trying not to overshoot the right point.

I am certain there are slick, spray-painting experts here who know how not to make a mess. I found the whole business very task-intensive, and getting everything cleaned up to the point I knew there would not be enameled-up orifices and permanently messed up tools took longer than I liked. I can fully appreciate why some folk would only ever use a rattle-can.


----------



## FOMOGO (Feb 23, 2021)

Mixing can be a challenge. I've done enough of it over the years that it has become kind of second nature knowing what your gun likes, but I always use a large piece of cardboard to set my pattern and check viscosity. If it runs on the cardboard just add a little more paint and stir it in the gun cup.  There is a range that will work, and while it's a little more effort, spraying with a decent gun definitely leaves a nice finish. I spray straight thinner through my gun after use, and totally disassemble and clean my gun inside and out. really only takes a few minutes, and I've been using the same old #7 Binks for 40 years.  Mike


----------



## Don T (Feb 23, 2021)

Brushing is fine. I have no problem doing it that way I just thought I might use more paint brushing instead of spraying. But if 1 quart will do the job brushing that's great, Thanks for all the help.


----------



## Don T (Feb 23, 2021)

This is what I was going to buy. I found it on another post.


----------



## aliva (Feb 23, 2021)

Check with your Sherwin Williams dealer the may have a graduated mixing stick. The stick is graduated with marks indicating the correct amount of reducer for a given amount of paint. Automotive paint supplies will definitely have this. This is of course if you are going to spray the paint. Don't for get to use paint filters before putting the paint in the gun.
Here's an example


----------



## Don T (Feb 23, 2021)

Well I bought this from SW. I got gloss instead of low sheen but everything else is the same. I think I am going to brush it. I am not to concerned about it being "Perfect" as long as it looks okay and close to original. Thanks to all for the help.


----------



## Don T (Feb 24, 2021)

Well I started cleaning it and getting it ready for stripping the old paint. I hate that ugly green.


----------



## 7milesup (Feb 24, 2021)

I deal a fair amount with Sherwin Williams.  Just talked to the rep a week ago about painting machines and he suggested Sher-Kem.  Not sure what you have there, not that it matters now.
Looking forward to seeing your lathe all purdy'd up.


----------



## Technical Ted (Feb 25, 2021)

I use Rust-o-leum Smoke Gray for all my machine tools. Brush only. A quart will do a couple of machines usually...

Ted


----------



## tq60 (Feb 25, 2021)

Technical Ted said:


> I use Rust-o-leum Smoke Gray for all my machine tools. Brush only. A quart will do a couple of machines usually...
> 
> Ted


Same here.

Harbor freight has a detail gun for 15 bucks, 10 on sale.

Get a syringe from the vet supply, large one, use it to draw paint from can.

Place whatever thinner is required in a small jar, we use a film can so it can be covered.

Draw correct amount of thinner after paint, hold finger on end and shake, cleans syringe and squirt into cup on sprayer.

Gloves on...

Cap cup and shake to mix.


Mix on thick side so minimal overspray.

We use the smoke gray, but there are 2 different ones!

Home depot thins with thinner

Lowes thins with acetone or thinner.

It will take 2 quarts.

The cast iron is somewhat rough and it is filled in with some different fillers depending on age.

Multiple coats of paint will fill these voids and the surface will self level as you go.

Once it looks good it may take a month to fully cure, just be careful assembling.

Thick paint on motor base and headstock parts, inside bed also as cleanup better with less crannies.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


----------



## 7milesup (Feb 25, 2021)

Funny.....  I just picked up a spray can of Rust-Oleum smoke gray the other day to test it out.  It has a lot of blue in it compared to my normal go-to color of Massey Ferguson Gray.

Also, zylene is also a good thinner for paints such as the "hammered" types.  
Another addition to paint is Japan Drier, which will speed up the drying time.


----------



## Buffalo21 (Feb 25, 2021)

I painted a 1940 Bridgeport, one of the worse decisions of my life. I stripped it down, cleaned all the surfaces and applied the etching epoxy primer, got a beautiful finish, I waited a week, went to apply the paint, the primer fell off in sheets. Restripped the mill base, cleaned it completely again, reapplied the primer, waited a week, again the primer came off in sheets. I completely stripped and cleaned the mill base again, switch to a different brand of paint, it would not stick. Over the next 2-3 months, I washed it with white kerosene, acetone, muriatic acid, brake-Kleen, and other products, even carbon tetrachloride, nothing would stick.

One of my customers, made industrial coatings of all kinds, I mentioned to him the issue with the mill base, he asked a few questions and said he would need to think about it. About a week later, he came over to the shop, pulled out somekind of cleaning prep rags, wipe down 3 or 4 areas, put the rags back into their containers and left. About 3 or 4 days later he called and said he believed he had an answer. He gave me some prep wash, some primer and some blue-grey machine coating. I followed the hand written instructions to the letter, all application done out doors, wearing a respirator, keep everyone else clearly out of the area. after the prep wash had dried, the rags were extremely dirty, I applied the primer, waiting the required 3 days, I checked and the primer was solidly attached to the metal, I applied the paint, all went perfectly, the coverage and finish were great.

That was roughly 20 yrs ago, the coating engineer has passed on (cancer (?)), the coating company move to some place in Kentucky, and recently the paint is starting to peel off, in sheets, off the mill base again. Since that time I have not or will I ever paint any machine again.


----------



## Don T (Feb 25, 2021)

Buffalo21 said:


> I painted a 1940 Bridgeport, one of the worse decisions of my life. I stripped it down, cleaned all the surfaces and applied the etching epoxy primer, got a beautiful finish, I waited a week, went to apply the paint, the primer fell off in sheets. Restripped the mill base, cleaned it completely again, reapplied the primer, waited a week, again the primer came off in sheets. I completely stripped and cleaned the mill base again, switch to a different brand of paint, it would not stick. Over the next 2-3 months, I washed it with white kerosene, acetone, muriatic acid, brake-Kleen, and other products, even carbon tetrachloride, nothing would stick.
> 
> One of my customers, made industrial coatings of all kinds, I mentioned to him the issue with the mill base, he asked a few questions and said he would need to think about it. About a week later, he came over to the shop, pulled out somekind of cleaning prep rags, wipe down 3 or 4 areas, put the rags back into their containers and left. About 3 or 4 days later he called and said he believed he had an answer. He gave me some prep wash, some primer and some blue-grey machine coating. I followed the hand written instructions to the letter, all application done out doors, wearing a respirator, keep everyone else clearly out of the area. after the prep wash had dried, the rags were extremely dirty, I applied the primer, waiting the required 3 days, I checked and the primer was solidly attached to the metal, I applied the paint, all went perfectly, the coverage and finish were great.
> 
> That was roughly 20 yrs ago, the coating engineer has passed on (cancer (?)), the coating company move to some place in Kentucky, and recently the paint is starting to peel off, in sheets, off the mill base again. Since that time I have not or will I ever paint any machine again.


That's one reason I am just going with oil based paint. I have painted old cast iron before with my own home made black japan. It is made of Gilsonite which is almost powdered crud oil. You need no primer and it adheres to cast iron real well. I am thinking of painting it with that first but the oil based SW should be just fine on it's own. Here is one of the cast iron fans I painted with my home made paint (made from Gilsonite)


----------



## francist (Feb 25, 2021)

That’s a nice looking finish (on the fan). Is the Gilsonite still easily available or is it going the way of white lead? Wouldn’t mind trying that someday.

-frank


----------



## Don T (Feb 26, 2021)

francist said:


> That’s a nice looking finish (on the fan). Is the Gilsonite still easily available or is it going the way of white lead? Wouldn’t mind trying that someday.
> 
> -frank


You can buy it on ebay by the pound. I have a recipe from a 1912 paint book that I use. You can still find all the ingredients including the lead.


----------



## Don T (Feb 26, 2021)

White Lead is still sold on ebay but it is not used in this paint. It was used by artists. Black Japan used yellow (Lead) litharge and red lead.

White Lead








						Lead Acetate Trihydrate 99% 1/4 lb.  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Lead Acetate Trihydrate 99% 1/4 lb. at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## francist (Feb 26, 2021)

Sweet (heh heh), thanks for those! I should have thought to check my old painters and gilders manual, there may have been a similar recipe in there. Similar vintage to your book, maybe a bit earlier but not much.

I tried making white lead once a few years ago. One of those mad scientist experiments that one thinks of late at night. I got a reasonable bit of what I expect was the lead acetate but didn’t take it any further.

Thanks again for the recipes 

-frank


----------



## Surprman (Feb 26, 2021)

+1 on the Alkyd Enamel.  Also, buy a gallon and have them split it and mix two different colors in the same “family”.  I was not adamant about sticking to the boring SB grey.  Mine was going to be a tool in my shop -might as well paint it the color I want.  (Because you don’t get extra points for sticking to the traditional factory color)

Rick


----------



## Don T (Feb 26, 2021)

Surprman said:


> +1 on the Alkyd Enamel.  Also, buy a gallon and have them split it and mix two different colors in the same “family”.  I was not adamant about sticking to the boring SB grey.  Mine was going to be a tool in my shop -might as well paint it the color I want.  (Because you don’t get extra points for sticking to the traditional factory color)
> 
> Rick


I thought about painting it with black japan. But black is a bit hot here in Florida and the sun will hit parts of the lathe at times.


----------



## Don T (Feb 26, 2021)

francist said:


> Sweet (heh heh), thanks for those! I should have thought to check my old painters and gilders manual, there may have been a similar recipe in there. Similar vintage to your book, maybe a bit earlier but not much.
> 
> I tried making white lead once a few years ago. One of those mad scientist experiments that one thinks of late at night. I got a reasonable bit of what I expect was the lead acetate but didn’t take it any further.
> 
> ...


This guy sells most of the hard to get chemicals needed including the Gilsonite. The white Corpal (Gum Animi) and common Amber is easy to find.









						Items for sale by quartzpegmatite | eBay
					

Shop eBay for great deals from quartzpegmatite!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## Don T (Feb 27, 2021)

Well I got some painting done. I think it looks pretty good. Here is a video of me removing the old paint with a small air die grinder I have. It actually worked better than the 8" sander I had and was much faster. Who would have thought that small grinder would work faster.

https://youtu.be/hx6DonBinnY


----------



## malleusmagnus (Mar 4, 2021)

Buffalo21 said:


> I painted a 1940 Bridgeport, one of the worse decisions of my life. I stripped it down, cleaned all the surfaces and applied the etching epoxy primer, got a beautiful finish, I waited a week, went to apply the paint, the primer fell off in sheets. Restripped the mill base, cleaned it completely again, reapplied the primer, waited a week, again the primer came off in sheets. I completely stripped and cleaned the mill base again, switch to a different brand of paint, it would not stick. Over the next 2-3 months, I washed it with white kerosene, acetone, muriatic acid, brake-Kleen, and other products, even carbon tetrachloride, nothing would stick.
> 
> One of my customers, made industrial coatings of all kinds, I mentioned to him the issue with the mill base, he asked a few questions and said he would need to think about it. About a week later, he came over to the shop, pulled out somekind of cleaning prep rags, wipe down 3 or 4 areas, put the rags back into their containers and left. About 3 or 4 days later he called and said he believed he had an answer. He gave me some prep wash, some primer and some blue-grey machine coating. I followed the hand written instructions to the letter, all application done out doors, wearing a respirator, keep everyone else clearly out of the area. after the prep wash had dried, the rags were extremely dirty, I applied the primer, waiting the required 3 days, I checked and the primer was solidly attached to the metal, I applied the paint, all went perfectly, the coverage and finish were great.
> 
> That was roughly 20 yrs ago, the coating engineer has passed on (cancer (?)), the coating company move to some place in Kentucky, and recently the paint is starting to peel off, in sheets, off the mill base again. Since that time I have not or will I ever paint any machine again.


I used to work for a machine shop/machine tool rebuilder, back when I was an apprentice.  When the company expanded from machine shop to rebuilder, they had to learn a lot, including how to paint castings that had been soaked in cutting oil for decades, if not a century.  After months of trail and error, mostly the latter, they finally resrted to baking the castings, sitting in trap pans, for three days under heat lamps.  Bridgeport column castings would weep quarts of oil, which they in turn sold to recyclers.  After the bake, the primer stuck without fail.


----------



## Don T (Mar 5, 2021)

malleusmagnus said:


> I used to work for a machine shop/machine tool rebuilder, back when I was an apprentice.  When the company expanded from machine shop to rebuilder, they had to learn a lot, including how to paint castings that had been soaked in cutting oil for decades, if not a century.  After months of trail and error, mostly the latter, they finally resrted to baking the castings, sitting in trap pans, for three days under heat lamps.  Bridgeport column castings would weep quarts of oil, which they in turn sold to recyclers.  After the bake, the primer stuck without fail.


That's why if this first paint job doesn't work I am going to paint it with Gilsonite black japan paint. It might look strange all black but I know it will not come off. Back in the late 1800's early 1900's they painted all types of cast iron with this stuff with no primer and sticks on the cast iron fine. You don't need to clean or bake the oil off, It is oil. Also it is one of the reasons I chose not to use a primer with the oil based SW paint. The oil based paint should fare better with the oil soaked cast iron. But we will see.


----------



## malleusmagnus (Mar 5, 2021)

Don T said:


> That's why if this first paint job doesn't work I am going to paint it with Gilsonite black japan paint. It might look strange all black but I know it will not come off. Back in the late 1800's early 1900's they painted all types of cast iron with this stuff with no primer and sticks on the cast iron fine. You don't need to clean or bake the oil off, It is oil. Also it is one of the reasons I chose not to use a primer with the oil based SW paint. The oil based paint should fare better with the oil soaked cast iron. But we will see.


All my old Stanley bench planes are painted the same way; most are nearly 100 years old and the paint is still on them.


----------

