# Beware Of Bobcad/cam



## swatson144 (Mar 11, 2016)

We had a much older version at work and I bought V28 (current version) on my own dime. 45 days later my "support" ran out. I started to ge notices that I would no longer get updates or bug fixes unless I paid for more "support". Seems to be a new thing with V28, So I talked with a gent who assured me that it was all disclosed in our agreement disclosure. I do not recall any one saying that unless I pony up 400$ a year they won't even fix the problems they make. So I'm likely off to talk to the CC people.

Just thought I'd mention it YMMV.

Steve


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## Wreck™Wreck (Mar 11, 2016)

The most annoying thing about BobCad that I have found is that once you make an inquiry about it including your phone number they will dun you weekly or daily with phone calls. For an entire year.


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## jpfabricator (Mar 11, 2016)

I had that same problem Wreck. I finally got them to leave me alone when I told the "salesperson" "I would call HIM when I was ready. Till then DONT CALL ME!"

Sent from somewhere in East Texas Jake Parker


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## compsurge (Mar 17, 2016)

Spend some time getting acquainted with Autodesk Fusion 360.


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## cjtoombs (Mar 17, 2016)

I recently switched from Turbocad Pro 16 to Fusion 360.  Fusion is so much better.  Also, I had a problem with my regular computer that required me to install Turbocad on another computer I had for temporary use.  It said my activation code had expired and that I needed a new one.  That went off without a hitch, but once I had the new code, I could no longer open any of my old files in Turbocads proprietry format.  I called them and got the runaround, so I assume that is was done to screw with people so that they would update to a newer version (16 is about 5 or 6 versions old now).  Luckily I found that out that way I did and saved all my complete files as .dxf after I got my main computer going.  As the Tom Petty song goes "All the boys upstairs want to see, How much you'll pay for what you used to get for free".


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## Metal (Mar 23, 2016)

Yeah, old DRM was to treat you like a criminal
New DRM is just subscription based, so you milk your regular user base constantly forever, it requires less support and makes more money.


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## John Hasler (Mar 23, 2016)

cjtoombs said:


> I recently switched from Turbocad Pro 16 to Fusion 360.  Fusion is so much better.  Also, I had a problem with my regular computer that required me to install Turbocad on another computer I had for temporary use.  It said my activation code had expired and that I needed a new one.  That went off without a hitch, but once I had the new code, I could no longer open any of my old files in Turbocads proprietry format.  I called them and got the runaround, so I assume that is was done to screw with people so that they would update to a newer version (16 is about 5 or 6 versions old now).  Luckily I found that out that way I did and saved all my complete files as .dxf after I got my main computer going.  As the Tom Petty song goes "All the boys upstairs want to see, How much you'll pay for what you used to get for free".


Free Software exists.  http://www.freecadweb.org/ (among others)


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## grepper (Mar 23, 2016)

Check out Designspark Mechanical.  A lot like Fusion 360, but without the CAM part.  It's free, and not 
hobbled with with ridiculous on-line dependency like Fusion is.  It is a _very_ nice CAD program, IMHO the best of the free stuff.

http://www.rs-online.com/designspark/electronics/eng/page/mechanical

If you want to go with Fusion 360, you can set Fusion 360 off-line and it will operate up to two weeks before it has to go on-line to contact it's activation servers (even though it's free for enthusiasts).  At that time it will automagically abscond with your designs and upload them to Adobe, however you can get around this fiasco by deleting some of the Fusion directory structure on your computer before switching it to go on-line.   

It's funny; if you check around on-line about why Fusion 360's is hamstrung by on-line operation dependency, it seems the Fusion folks are completely flummoxed and left scratching their heads as to why the question of off-line operation is even considered.  It is as though the idea of off-line anything is totally befuddling and unimaginable.

Fusion 360 is a great free app and may well be the best option and well worth working around the annoyance of it uploading your stuff to Adobe if you are like me and don't appreciate that "feature".  Then again, if your shop does not have internet access it could be a problem every two weeks.


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## swatson144 (Mar 23, 2016)

Thanks all, work is on a tightly controlled internet. I am allowed to bring my laptop in and have even placed a big monitor on my desk for working the cad/cam with permission, but plugging in to the network is not possible. I bring it in and update at home. I use a smattering of software to get work done. MasterCAM (permanent license) is provided by work as is autocad. I just find them cumbersome for some of the things we do.  Mostly simple 2D with occasionally 2.5D.  So Emachine shop to SLI into meshcam (my license) to gcode. and run it. 

I really don't want to get into mastercam as I never see being able to afford it on my license.

I bought a personal license to bodcad with turning addon.  It doesn't suck very bad as far as software goes, and has some good points. IMO anything those people have to offer is over ridden by the V28 policy of NO UPDATES, NO BUG FIXES, unless you pay for support. It is extortion in my opinion. You do get a "generous" *FREE* 45 days  of support. Then shuck out another 400$ on something that hasn't began to pay for itself, just in case there is an error in their software.

I'm not needing someone to hold my hand and teach me how to draw, but I do expect the basic functions of the software to be corrected for the life of the version, or I have no use for it and have wasted my money.  
YMMV

Steve (who hopes to retire from the job in a few years and run his own little shop, which explains the serious attitude  )


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## cjtoombs (Mar 23, 2016)

Grepper, I am usualy online at home when I'm using it.  Learning a new CAD program can be very time consuming and Fusion was very easy to learn, so as long as I don't have any issues with my internet that last 2 weeks, I am good.  My WIFI reaches the shop, but I do most of my design and CAM in the house and load it onto a USB stick to take it out.  I could see the whole cloud thing being a non starter for any kind of design that you wanted to be secure, though.


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## petertha (Mar 26, 2016)

grepper said:


> If you want to go with Fusion 360, you can set Fusion 360 off-line and it will operate up to two weeks before it has to go on-line to contact it's activation servers (even though it's free for enthusiasts).  At that time it will automagically abscond with your designs and upload them to Adobe, however you can get around this fiasco by deleting some of the Fusion directory structure on your computer before switching it to go on-line.



I asked about this exact issue on another forum & got a different answer. But that particular fellow may have misunderstood and/or 360 newbie. Are you saying if a person was willing to legitimately pay for hobbyist level (or whatever they call the lower priced / non-commercial seat) - you still cant work independently off-line as though you installed all executables on your PC? It still requires internet connection & dependencies? What I was hoping was the typical download/install, design your stuff and only if you are interested in cloud storage or collaboration did you have to be on-line. I could even see a quick connection 'hi, I have legit licence####' and then it lets you work, just to slow down hacker theft. But if a somewhat permanent net connection is required just to do CAD work, I would imagine that could get bogged down & ugly in a hurry on complex parts & assemblies. One day I'm going to have to unplug off the Solidworks $ drug & was just starting to look at 360, but if that's what its about, then Bummer.


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## grepper (Mar 26, 2016)

Read this:
https://knowledge.autodesk.com/supp...ow-to-work-in-offline-mode-in-Fusion-360.html

This speaks to using Fusion 360 off-line. Stuff like it needs to connect to the license server every two weeks.
https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/design-validate-document/run-fusion-360-without-internet/td-p/5616683

If the Fusion hosting is down it can cause you to not be able to work in a couple of different ways:  If you were working off-line and the thing needed to contact the license server (every two weeks), and the license server is down, you're hosed until it's back up.

I read accounts of Fusion getting stuck trying to upload your designs to the cloud when the hosting service was down preventing you from using it.  In that case you can delete job files on your PC.

I'd rather see an option to select if you want your designs on the Autodesk site or not.  I think the very idea that anyone would not want absolutely everything on-line throws the younger generation of developers for a complete loop. 

My _understanding_ is:

You CAN use it off-line. (I do)  It must contact the activation server every two weeks. (Seems excessive).  It will automagically upload your designs to Autodesk. (But there are ways around it).

Not being able to select if my designs are uploaded or not grates on my sensibilities.  It should be an option.  I suspect (but have not checked) you can delete them from cloud storage.  For me, it's more the principal of the thing, and I have to go out of my way every two weeks as my shop is off-line.  I also live in the country and only have wireless Internet with limited bandwidth each month, so I'd rather not chew through it uploading stuff I don't want uploaded in the first place.  I don't have TwitFace, MyBook or SpacePlace, nor an I Insterested in Pintagramming anything.  I don't Yoggle or Goohoo anything either, and like it that way. 

If you can't get your shop computer to access the Internet every two weeks it is my understanding you are out of luck.  (Contact Autodesk support.  They have great support and actually respond.)  They have replied on-line by answering that question by saying they have other options such as AutoCad, etc.  (NOT free!!)

That being said: 

This is just information I have gathered from on-line reading.  _You probably should verify it yourself_.

Fusion 360 is a excellent program.  It might well be worth putting up with the goofiness if you can.

Check out DesignSpark Mechanical.  It's free for a hobby license.   It's also very nice and very similar to Fusion 360. It's much easier to do threading with Fusion than DesignSpark, and DesignSpark does not have CAM like Fusion does, nonetheless, it's a very nice, modern CAD application.

Hope that helps.


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## grepper (Mar 27, 2016)

peterha-  I reread your post and wanted to be specific:

Fusion 360 does not require you to be on-line to work.  Processing is done locally.

I emailed Autodesk support inquiring as to how much bandwidth Fusion 360 uses.  They replied with a couple of hours.  Gotta hand it to them!  They have good support, _especially_ considering the hobby license is free.  Hard to beat that!    Furthermore, they sent additional email asking if my questions had been resolved.  Really... what more could you ask?

Their reply:

_Difficult one to answer but the main traffic will be when you upload and download designs. The bulk of the program is installed locally and the computation is mainly using the local processor._

_Best regards,_

_Jon Dean_
_Autodesk Support Team_

They also sent the (see attachment) information.

Additionally, if Fusion 360 get stuck uploading you can clear it's job list:

Windows:
C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Local\Autodesk\production\JobManager360\<Most Current Application ID (sort by date if mutlple)>\

  Locate the jobs.json and the jobs.json.lck files.
  Delete both the json and the lck file.
  Restart Fusion 360 and review the Upload queue.

I'm guessing that if you delete these files before setting it back on-line again after working off-line, it won't attempt to upload anything.  I have not tried it yet, so it's just a guess.


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## petertha (Mar 27, 2016)

Thanks for info. I didn't want to hijack this thread about 360, so will stop here. But this online/offline discussion has been very educational & clears up something that just wasn't transparent to me. Optional cloud storage, collaboration, occasional licence validation, no problem. But I have zero interest in shuttling my own parts & assembly files across the internet in order to work on them. Either that's the way 360 intrinsically functions or an ill conveived marketing idea - but a non-starter for me. I think the statement from the Community Manager pretty much sums it up _... this is a cloud product with an offline mode that is best suited for brief periods of non-connectivity. If you need a fully offline solution we offer other products for that._


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## chevydyl (Apr 15, 2016)

My experience with bobcad has been ok, I bought 26, 3 axis standard, didn't use it for about a year, then when I needed it it didn't work, it kept crashing, so as a last resort "we're not really supposed to do this but" the guy sent me a download of the most recent build of my version, now it only crashes sometimes. I have to save alot, I only use it for cam
I'm not sure how smart the new version is but I hate that you have to draw redundant geometry sometimes to trick it into doing what you want, especially when it's seems like a no brainer


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## COMachinist (Apr 15, 2016)

chevydyl said:


> My experience with bobcad has been ok, I bought 26, 3 axis standard, didn't use it for about a year, then when I needed it it didn't work, it kept crashing, so as a last resort "we're not really supposed to do this but" the guy sent me a download of the most recent build of my version, now it only crashes sometimes. I have to save alot, I only use it for cam
> I'm not sure how smart the new version is but I hate that you have to draw redundant geometry sometimes to trick it into doing what you want, especially when it's seems like a no brainer


I'm sorry but your idea of OK is a lot different than mine. Bought V25 A few years ago, and all I can say is never again. I used that soft exactly 0 times. It crashed more than I can stand. They only called like 200 times to get me buy V 26 or V 27 after told them I'll never buy anything from them again. I'm using Fusion 360 now, cost 0 for hobby users. Bob Cad/cam wanted $100s for help after the first 45 days. Auto desk has never asked for a penny to give help. If I ever have pay for 360 no hesitation it's great.
CH


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## chevydyl (Apr 15, 2016)

They tried the same expired support with me,  but I literally told them it was *******t and they fixed the issue, I too have started using fusion for my mill-lathe (turning only) ops, but I like bobcad for milling, and I like solid works for modeling anything I'm going to mill, when I need to engrave a pcb, solid works to draw then export as dfx I think, open in bobcad and run an engrave tool path. Personally I don't like bobcad, I like bobcam tho, fusion is pretty easy, but the post for mach3 or general fanuc turning is not perfect, the model looks kinda different in mach3turn, and the part did reflect the difference, but that's for another post
I'm not sure I'll ever buy from bobcad again, I hated their turning option in the demo, not nearly as easy as mill


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## swatson144 (Apr 15, 2016)

I actually like the turning in BobCAM. It can use canned cycles which is how I write from scratch. I teach the young MR's with canned cycles which allows an easy progression of learning . They can take a generic 4 shoulder pin and with <8 edits change it to another pin learning along the way and quickly being productive.

Steve


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## GLCarlson (Apr 22, 2016)

Fusion360 is cloud based. That said, it's clearly attractive.  Vectric offers a pretty good alternative 2 1/2D program for $150 that you actually own. I've been running Turbocad 16 for years; Cut2D Desktop is a pretty good alternative, with excellent support.


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## rdean (Apr 22, 2016)

All of the Vectric software is excellent and easy to use.  Free demos of the full version (just can't cut your own design) with great tutorials.
I tried Auto cad, and several other packages but just couldn't make it work.  With Aspire from Vectric I was able to show the resident Auto Cad tech how to model his 3d design and output the code to the machine and I exported it back into Auto Cad to give back to him.

Ray


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## GLCarlson (Apr 22, 2016)

Vectric: one can customize the CAM posts easily (surprisingly useful); customer support is absolutely outstanding; and the learning curve is pretty steep ( that is, short) and painless (especially compared to Sprut and others) with good tutorials as noted in other comments. No subscription fee, and a customer-friendly upgrade policy. Biggest limitations for Cut2D Desktop are that it only supports a (roughly) 2 foot square workspace natively, and import/export formats are limited (but common ones are supported).


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