# Mill tooling from scratch.



## 428Bird (Jul 11, 2017)

I'm about to finish the spindle bearing replacement on my Bridgeport, but I have absolutely no tooling of any kind, not even a vice.

I was wondering if you folks could help me create a list of must haves for my home shop. Here's what I have on the list so far:

1. T-slot hold down kit. 
2. A decent 6" vice.
3. R8 collet set. What sizes?
4. R8 drill chuck.

Your suggestions along with recommended manufacturers would be greatly appreciated.

Britt Bettell 

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## dlane (Jul 11, 2017)

1,2,3 good , 4,  ied get a straight shank drill arbor ,don't forget end mills ied start with mid grade.


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## T Bredehoft (Jul 11, 2017)

R8 'Collets come in (I think) 1/8 or 1/16 increments up to nearly if not to one inch. Most tooling comes in fractional sizes, usually 1/4 increments, except for smaller than 1/4. You'll need collets to fit the tooling you don't have yet. I have a set by 1/8ths, also R8 Weldon holders for 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, so far, soon will get 3/8. These do for standard sized end mills.

You'll also want an R8 mounted drill chuck, get a high dollar keyless drill chuck, I have a cheap one, it's cheap.
Get an assortment of end mills, look on Ebay for used or bulk sales, you can often get a small number of like end mills cheaper than buying one retail.
You'll want parallels to support work in your vice but don't go overboard, I bought some 1/8 and  1/2 by 1 flat ground O1 steel, its accurate enough, cut it to 6" lengths and you are good to go.
There's hundreds or thousands of dollars just waiting to be spent, you'll never have enough tools.

_Edit typo_


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## ferlum (Jul 11, 2017)

1. I have a set from Shars and it's fine.
2. I only have a mini-mill so haven't really studied vises that big, but wouldn't be afraid to look at Shars (Discount Machine on ebay).
3. Get a set from 1/8 to 3/4 in sixteenths. Again I have a set from Shars and they're fine. End up using 3/8 thru 5/8 the most and the others occasionally.
4. I use one of these all the time. Not a fan of keyless chucks on stationary machines but that's just me. 

As the previous poster said, parallels.

And an edge finder. I like the wiggler type.

Some might not agree with my Shars recommendations but I have quite a few of their tools and have always found them to be a good value.


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## Bob Korves (Jul 12, 2017)

428Bird said:


> 3. R8 collet set. What sizes?


R8 collets are made in sizes by 64ths from 1/16" (I think) up to 7/8".   R8 collets larger than 3/4" do not take that size all the way into the collet, there is a step an inch or so into the collet.  R8 collets are also available in metric sizes, and emergency, step and other specialty collets are also available.  The Hardinge catalog has lots of different ones they would be happy to sell you.  I have a set by sixteenths, 1/8 to 7/8" and I may have used one of the sixteenth collets once, though I do have some oddball old school end mills with sixteenth shanks, still new and unused.

The fact of the matter is that the ones you will use 95+ percent of the time will be 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4".  I could easily live with those ONLY.  I try to get tooling with shanks in those sizes, which makes the tooling easily transferable to other machines and to any replacement mill somewhere down the road that has a different collet system.  Anything you can do to change collets less often makes the work go much easier and faster.  R8 tooling takes much more room to get the tool in and out of the spindle.  Straight shank tooling makes it easy to sneak tool changes in and out of a tight setup.

Another option is to ignore R8 tooling for round tooling and go with an ER collet system instead.


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## mikey (Jul 12, 2017)

T-slot set: Check out Northwestern Tools. Good stuff for a fair price, made in the USA.
Vise: get a good one - Kurt, Glacern are good. Most of your work will be held in a vise so buy a decent one.
Right angle plate to clamp work to when a vise will not do. 

I would suggest an ER-32 chuck instead of an R8 setup. Better accuracy, greater flexibility. Consider the Tormach TTS system. An R8 set in 1/8" increments is useful at times when you need the head room. Whichever collet system you choose, buy good collets - they make a difference.

I agree on a good keyless chuck, Albrecht if you can find a good one. If you plan to power tap then a keyless chuck won't work. In that case, a Jacobs made in the USA Super Chuck would work well. Albrechts and Jacobs chuck can be found on ebay for good prices if you're patient.
Buy parallels in 1/8" and thin 1/32" thickness. The former will be used the most. The latter when you have to drill close to an edge.
Buy some Starrett screw jacks or make a set. You need these when you have to hang a part beyond the ends of your vise jaws. Not a high priority item.
Agree with the edge finder. One of the cheapest and best is a Starrett 827A.
Buy or make a good flycutter. I have and sort of like the Tormach Superfly - works well. You will have to square almost every work piece you make from solid stock and a good flycutter will get this done quickly and accurately. 

End mills - do your homework on this. This is a whole separate thread of discussions.
Drills, taps, reamers - eventually, you need them all. Again, homework on brands but it pays to buy decent tools here. 

Consider an angle block set; the imports will do. You will eventually need to mill an angled face and angle blocks are a fast and simple way to do it. Sine tables/plates and gauge blocks are more accurate but angle blocks will serve for most work. 

Later: rotary table, tilting angle table, a good boring head.
If you don't already have them, good measuring tools - 6" dial caliper, 0-1" and 1-2" micrometers.
Definitely buy a good quality Dial Test Indicator. You will need this to tram your mill and vise.
The list can go on and on but this will cover most of the bases to start.


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## 428Bird (Jul 12, 2017)

mikey said:


> T-slot set: Check out Northwestern Tools. Good stuff for a fair price, made in the USA.
> Vise: get a good one - Kurt, Glacern are good. Most of your work will be held in a vise so buy a decent one.
> Right angle plate to clamp work to when a vise will not do.
> 
> ...


Oh wow, this one post should be made a sticky.

I have a few kurt D688's on watch on an auction site. I'll definitely check out northwestern, and for the measuring equipment I'm set.

Thanks for the feedback so far!

Britt Bettell 

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## 428Bird (Jul 12, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> The fact of the matter is that the ones you will use 95+ percent of the time will be 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4".  I could easily live with those ONLY.



I wondered about this. Why do I need collets in so many different sizes when the end mills come in the sizes you listed above? Seems a waste. 

Britt Bettell 

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## mikey (Jul 12, 2017)

428Bird said:


> I'll definitely check out northwestern, and for the measuring equipment I'm set.



Northwestern sells their stuff on ebay, too. If you don't see what you need, email the seller. He is an awesome guy and very helpful. Tell him Mike from the HM forum sent you.


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## Bob Korves (Jul 12, 2017)

428Bird said:


> I wondered about this. Why do I need collets in so many different sizes when the end mills come in the sizes you listed above? Seems a waste.
> 
> Britt Bettell
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


There are unconventional things you can do with a mill, and then collets in smaller increments or that cover larger ranges become useful.  For instance, a mill can be used like a lathe by putting stock into the spindle and a lathe tool in the vise.  Then the size of the stock comes into play.  That is just one example.  By the way, R8 (and 5C) collets only grip well a small range of diameters, the nominal size plus or minus a few thousandths.  ER collets cover larger ranges.


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## Buffalo20 (Jul 12, 2017)

I bought a set of premium import (Japan) R8 collets from 1/16" to 7/8", by 32s, when I first got started, haven't used them yet. I do us 1/8", 3/16", 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", 7/16" and 1/2" collets on a regular basis (carbide end mills, shank size is cutter size) and 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" collets with HSS end mills, the collets are lyndex. If I didn't use the carbides, I'd only need the 3, for about 90-95% of what I do.


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## Silverbullet (Jul 12, 2017)

Don't forget way oil , spindle oil , cutting fluids . The list for tooling is endless , get some on eBay , assortment sizes of endmills , check the lots for sale , many things in the list at once are possible. Used collets , arbors , drill chucks .. New stuff Ck out industry recycle store on eBay , offers and free shipping helps. Always watch craigslist daily. Good luck happy hunting


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## RandyWilson (Jul 12, 2017)

I'm from the school of buying used to start. Grab some lots of used end mills and such.  They go for pennies on the dollar, and after you toss the worst ones you're still nickels on the dollar.  From this, get a feel for what *you* will be needing. What needs to be bought high quality new, what can be lower quality, and can remain used, and what is not needed at all.


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## 428Bird (Jul 12, 2017)

I actually have some end mills, enough to start anyway. I got them in a box of Morse taper drills I bought for my lathe. I think I'll keep an eye out for a good used Kurt D688, or 675, a t-slot hold down kit, and a few collets to hold the end mills I have. They're 3/8 and 1/2 if I recall. 

Having said all of that. Has anyone ever looked at the Shars 690V vice?

Britt Bettell 

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## Silverbullet (Jul 12, 2017)

There are still good used Bridgeport vises around, even l&m . They may not be the rage but there well made have been producing forever.


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## rock_breaker (Jul 13, 2017)

Mikey listed a right angle plate which I believe is a good universal tool. Mr. Harold Hall in his book;_ Milling A Complete "Course"_ workshop Practice Series # 35 illustrates several tools for the  beginning mill operator. The set of parallels I made following his guidelines are very useful and the experience priceless.
Have a good day
Ray


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## Bob Korves (Jul 13, 2017)

Silverbullet said:


> There are still good used Bridgeport vises around, even l&m . They may not be the rage but there well made have been producing forever.


I am completely happy with my old Bridgeport 6" vise, after getting it cleaned up and the small amount of wear mitigated I wish for nothing more.


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## 428Bird (Aug 6, 2017)

Well, off to a good start I think. Picked up a Jacobs 14N chuck with an R8 arbor off of an auction site for a really good price, and a new te-co clamp set from Rex supply here in Houston. 

Britt Bettell 

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## mikey (Aug 6, 2017)

428Bird said:


> Well, off to a good start I think. Picked up a Jacobs 14N chuck with an R8 arbor off of an auction site for a really good price, and a new te-co clamp set from Rex supply here in Houston.
> 
> Britt Bettell
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk



That's a good chuck, same for the Te-co clamping set. I have both and like them.


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## 428Bird (Apr 23, 2018)

Been a while since I've posted, but after hitting up an auction site again I've got the following.

Kurt D675 vice
About 20 R8 collets of varying sizes. 
A couple of R8 shank fly cutters
An R8 shank face mill
An R8 shank ER40 collet holder with no collets (it came in the same lot with the fly cutters)

I'd still like to have a rotary table. What should I be looking for? Shars?

Britt



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## 428Bird (Apr 23, 2018)

Here's a picture of the mill after I finally got a decent light hung overhead.

Britt
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








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## rock_breaker (Apr 24, 2018)

That's a good looking mill with a long table. Enjoy
Ray


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## dlane (Apr 24, 2018)

Rotary tables are nice if you need one , but collect dust if you don’t 
I got a 8” vertex that collects dust


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## cg285 (Apr 24, 2018)

instead of the rotary table you think you need i would get a set of collet blocks - i use them all the time. next would be a dro with functions that calculate bolt patterns, etc


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## Boswell (Apr 24, 2018)

dlane said:


> Rotary tables are nice if you need one , but collect dust if you don’t


+1
I purchased a rotary table when I got my first mill. Finally a few weeks ago I used it for the first time (8 years later)


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## macardoso (Apr 24, 2018)

I second a few of the posts about Shars.  I personally own a benchtop mill, but I also purchased tooling with the bridgeports at school in mind.


My opinion...

Essential items:
1) Vise.  Get a decent one but don't go crazy. You'll want a second down the road so you can buy the fancy Kurt then once you know what you want.
2) R8 collets. I agree ER chucks and Tormach TTS are nice, but until you need to spit out parts quickly, you can deal with changing the collet every time.
3) Parallels.  Buy cheap ones.  You'll probably drill into them a few times as you get going and you don't want to cry over expensive tooling.
4) Edge finder. Basic wiggle ones or a slightly more expensive electronic LED one is worth the extra few dollars in my mind.
5) Keyless drill chuck.  I have 2, my shars one is very nice and very little runout. Buy the R8 to JT33 taper adapter too. 
6) 115pc drill set. Buy a real cheap one and replace the drills with nice ones as you wear them out or find bad ones. I don't use many of them but I like having the full set so I have the correct tap drills.
7) Endmills.  Buy HSS or look for used tooling sales.  Avoid carbide until someone here has convinced you to switch. Your wallet starts crying when they break.
8) Dial or test indicator on magnetic Noga style base. Also a indicator holder for the spindle.  You'll need to to tram your vise / locate hole centers. Shars has nice cheap ones.  stick to .0005" or .001" (the .0001" will drive you loony)
9) One decent fine tooth single cut file.
10) Calipers.  Here is one place I'd say buy a little nicer on.  You want to trust your measurements and you will use them until they die (and price does equal lifetime when it comes to calipers)
11) You'll need way oil for you machine.  Also WD40 works fine as cutting oil for aluminum, not as good on steel. 
12) One of those 50 something T-slot clamping sets comes in handy as soon as you need to hold something not in the vise.
13) Center drill or spot drill, tap handle, taps, 5 flute 90* countersink (works for chamfering too), etc.

Have fun and remember you can always order more, don't go crazy at first.   Everyone with all the fancy tools has accumulated them over decades, don't feel bad!


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## MrWhoopee (Apr 24, 2018)

I'd suggest a 3/4 straight shank for the chuck, then cut it in half. Much easier to get in and out without cranking the knee up and down. Don't know why they make them so long.
Wait on the rotary table, watch CL, you'll save a lot of money. 
DRO
Edge finder
Quill stop
Since you have 5c collets for your lathe, get a set of collet blocks.


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## 428Bird (Apr 24, 2018)

MrWhoopee said:


> I'd suggest a 3/4 straight shank for the chuck, then cut it in half. Much easier to get in and out without cranking the knee up and down. Don't know why they make them so long.
> Wait on the rotary table, watch CL, you'll save a lot of money.
> DRO
> Edge finder
> ...



I hadn't considered the straight shank for the chuck - you're right, it's really long with the R8 shank. My collets are Holbrook specific collets made by Crawford back in the 50's. Not only are they oddly sized, but they've got whitworth threads for the drawbar.

Britt


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## FOMOGO (Apr 24, 2018)

Interesting mill. Was it originally a dual head machine? Mike


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## westsailpat (Apr 24, 2018)

I like your mill Britt and you have some nice stuff there too .  Started out life as a twin head hydraulic tracer . Is there a knuckle in back  of the head somewhere ? I forget never had much time on one of those . OK , you need a Criterion boring head .
https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn...MIn7i38KzT2gIVgtdkCh1REQTzEAYYASABEgI6kfD_BwE


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## 428Bird (Apr 24, 2018)

westsailpat said:


> I like your mill Britt and you have some nice stuff there too . Started out life as a twin head hydraulic tracer . Is there a knuckle in back of the head somewhere ? I forget never had much time on one of those . OK , you need a Criterion boring head .
> https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn...MIn7i38KzT2gIVgtdkCh1REQTzEAYYASABEgI6kfD_BwE


That's right. It was a tracer (I still have the tracer head) and was built in 1977. Fortunately it had manual screws as well as the hydraulic motors.

A boring head, that slipped my mind.

Britt

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## Charles Spencer (Apr 24, 2018)

Nice mill indeed.


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## eeler1 (Apr 25, 2018)

Brush.

Covers for the bed.

The rest covered above.


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## Z2V (Apr 25, 2018)

Boswell said:


> +1
> I purchased a rotary table when I got my first mill. Finally a few weeks ago I used it for the first time (8 years later)


If you consider selling it please let me know. It looks like we are neighbors.


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## Boswell (Apr 25, 2018)

Hello Jeff. I doubt that I will sell it because I might need it again 8 years from now. Nice to see that there is someone else in the neighborhood though.


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## macardoso (Apr 25, 2018)

macardoso said:


> I second a few of the posts about Shars.  I personally own a benchtop mill, but I also purchased tooling with the bridgeports at school in mind.
> 
> 
> My opinion...
> ...




Forgot a boring head!  Those will be used a lot


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