# Which VFD for 10 hp spindle



## Karl_T (Mar 31, 2021)

I am seriously considering using this 10 hp 900 RPM motor to power the spindle on my 10EE








						10 hp electric motor 284t 3 phase 900 rpm severe duty PE284T-10-8C  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 10 hp electric motor 284t 3 phase 900 rpm severe duty PE284T-10-8C at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




I have single phase only to run it. What would be a good VFD choice for this machine? NOT buying the cheapest china one out there, but cannot go gold plated either.


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## Cadillac (Mar 31, 2021)

I don’t have a recommendation but going over 5hp with a vfd starts getting pricey. I would stick will a name brand at the rating like Allen Bradley,teco,hitachi,etc.


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## macardoso (Mar 31, 2021)

Going to say up front that I would be completely surprised if anyone offered a single phase 10HP drive.

Allen Bradley and competitors offer single phase up to 3HP. I've seen China ones up to 5HP and that really surprised me.

Most VFD's will have a note in their manual that allows a three phase drive to be used for single phase with a 50% derate (typical). This means you'd need to buy a 20HP VFD to run your 10HP motor.

There are two reasons for this: first, the front end receives consistently higher current loading as the DC bus tries to recharge from a single line, and second, the added bus capacitance is required to achieve sufficient DC bus regulation with the more sparse incoming voltage pulses.

Downsides are added cost (obviously), physically larger footprint, larger inrush current, and a poor power factor (not a big deal in residential aplications).


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## macardoso (Mar 31, 2021)

I know Allen Bradley stuff well so if that is something you are interested in, I could help suggest a part number to look at.


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## jbobb1 (Mar 31, 2021)

Just ran across this. You might check it out.









						PC1-100
					






					www.driveswarehouse.com


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## Karl_T (Mar 31, 2021)

I am a bit afraid of the above offer.

Want to go name brand. Now many VFDs that are listed 3 phase actually run on 1 phase. But some have a phase loss detector and will not run on 1 phase.  Anyone happen to know if this hitachi will work on 1 phase?









						VFD, 15hp, 3 Phase, 200/240V, 46/58/60 A, ND/LD/VL
					

VFD, 15hp, 3 Phase, 200/240V, 46/58/60 A, ND/LD/VLD, High Performance Vector Drive




					www.wolfautomation.com


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## Karl_T (Mar 31, 2021)

I just found this Fuji one will certainly run on 1 phase. checked their technical manual.









						VFD, 15hp, 230V, 3 Phase, For Constant and Variabl
					

VFD, 15hp, 230V, 3 Phase, For Constant and Variable Torque Apps




					www.wolfautomation.com
				




Anyone have great experience with Fuji brand?

EDIT. this manual show the Hitachi will work on 1 phase also


			https://www.wolfautomation.com/media/pdf/ac-drives/hitachi/hitachi-sizing-3ph-1ph-appnotes.pdf
		


which is best?  Got another, better, name?


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## macardoso (Mar 31, 2021)

I can only speak to Allen Bradley drives, but on the 3 phase units, you can programmatically disable the phase loss detection fault. I would assume other drives have the same feature.


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## sdelivery (Mar 31, 2021)

I am not trying to offend anyone but I would steer clear of most AB products.
They are of high quality but over priced and over complicated. Fuji and Hitachi both have very good reputation for durability and longevity at a better price


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## Karl_T (Mar 31, 2021)

I agree the AB fall in my "gold plated" category.

I will give this a day, otherwise flip of a coin for hitachi or Fuji.


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## Barncat (Mar 31, 2021)

The user manual on those both show 3 phase input


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## rabler (Mar 31, 2021)

I've heard good things about both the Hitachi and Fuji in that ratings.  I have had good luck with Teco on the smaller ones but haven't heard much nor used them on larger machines.  Good luck with the 10EE!!


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## mksj (Mar 31, 2021)

Hi Karl,
So a few things to consider, first would be the motor, as far as I can see that PE284T-10-8 900 RPM (29.7A at 230V) motor does have a 10:1 constant torque ratio but it may be limited in its upper speed (did not see any specs.).  I did check a few other motors so something like the PEWWE10-9-284T is rated as 10:1 and a draw of 27.5A. When you get into the vector/inverter motors you are getting much wider operating ranges which should give more linear low end torque. The 900 RPM motors tend to be a bit less efficient and have a higher current draw, and they are darn heavy and big but varies by model. I did some checking on eBay and there are a few suggestions below, I think the Teco 1200 RPM motor which is an inverter/vector type motor and specifies an operating range of 3-120 Hz might be a better option as far as speed range and operating efficiency and also has a has a lower (FLA) current of 25.6A . It should also be able to spin faster, probably 2.5X the base speed. With the Teco inverter/vector you could get by with a size smaller VFD. It is also ~1/2 the cost of the 900 RPM one.

The VFD's I have installed/worked with others using the Hitachi, Yaskawa, Teco and Fuji models. In preference for a lathe application I probably would rate them as Yaskawa first, then Hitachi or Teco, and last would be the Fuji. I use the Yaskawa in both my mill and lathe, I find they are a bit better operating and less issues then some of the other brands. Fuji are the least expensive in their cheaper (mini) units, but I tend to recommend them for situations where I need maximum amps with minimum function. In applications where I need more inputs and programming adjustability I prefer not to use the Fuji lower end drives. I have parameter files for most of these and have done quite a bit of tweaking with the Yaskawa V1000's as well as the Hitachi and can provide you with suggested parameters that I have used.

Be careful in the application of VFD drives in a derated mode, so something like the Hitachi Drives P1-00600-LFUF is only rated for 22A (ND) with a single phase input, the 00800 model is rated for 31A and the 0930 for 36.5A. Many of the VFD's amp/Hp ratings are over inflated for variable torque or light duty, in HD mode of for single phase input they need more significant derating. The new Hitachi SJ-P1 line are very nice, but also quite expensive in particular the size need for derating. There are no native single phase models.

Use of a DC bus choke makes a significant impact on peak current draw and also derating, so you can usually get by with a 1.5 derating, but is VFD model specific. I often will use the MTE buss chokes, you can often find them at good prices on eBay, something in the 40A or 50A (DCA005003 or DCA005004) would work in the derated mode as you are only pulling 25-35A depending on the motor.

Mark

900 RPM Motors
https://www.ebay.com/itm/150282-22-...EFC-208-230-460V-3-PH-60HZ-RIGID/222911199825








						Weg Electric motor 284TC, 10HP 900 rpm Severe Duty  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Weg Electric motor 284TC, 10HP 900 rpm Severe Duty at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




*1200 RPM Inverter Vector








						NEW TECO 10HP, 1200RPM, 230/460V, 256T, TEFC  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NEW TECO 10HP, 1200RPM, 230/460V, 256T, TEFC at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				



*
1750 RPM Inverter Vector motor








						Marathon Black Max w/ Encoder AC Motor TVD215THTL7726FVL 10HP 4200RPM NewSurplus  | eBay
					

Part #: TVD215THTL7726FVL. Marathon Black Max w/ Encoder AC Motor. Avtron Encoder New S urplus. Part #: AV56A 1CBE8XP000.



					www.ebay.com
				




VFD's to consider based on the PE284T-10-8, you could go down a size with a higher efficiency motor.
Hitachi Wj200-150lf (60A in CT (HD mode) and 35A in derated mode for single phase, would use a DC buss choke)








						WJ200-150LF
					






					www.driveswarehouse.com
				




If more efficient motor than: Hitachi Wj200-110lf (47A in CT (HD mode) and 27A in derated mode for single phase, would use a DC buss choke)








						WJ200-110LF
					






					www.driveswarehouse.com
				




Yaskawa V1000 CIMR-VU2A0056FAA (47A in CT (HD mode) and 28A in derated mode for single phase, would use a DC buss choke)








						Yaskawa, CIMR-VU2A0056FAA, 20HP, 3-Phase, 200-240V (Input), NEMA 1 Enclosure, Variable Frequency Drive
					

Yaskawa, CIMR-VU2A0056FAA, 20HP, 3-Phase, 200-240V (Input), NEMA 1 Enclosure, Variable Frequency Drive




					motorsandcontrol.com
				




Yaskawa V1000 CIMR-VU2A0069FAA (60A in CT (HD mode) and 36A in derated mode for single phase, would use a DC buss choke)








						Yaskawa, CIMR-VU2A0069FAA, 25HP, 3-Phase, 200-240V (Input), NEMA 1 Enclosure, Variable Frequency Drive
					

Yaskawa, CIMR-VU2A0069FAA, 25HP, 3-Phase, 200-240V (Input), NEMA 1 Enclosure, Variable Frequency Drive




					motorsandcontrol.com
				




Teco Westinghouse E510-220-H3-U (64A in CT and 38A in derated mode for single phase, would use a DC buss choke)





						Purchase 20 HP VFD, 230 Volts, NEMA 1/IP20, Teco, E510-220-H3-U at Dealers Industrial
					

20 HP VFD, 230 Volts, NEMA 1/IP20, Teco, E510-220-H3-U Variable frequency drives are a device that varies the speed of a three phase motor.




					dealerselectric.com
				




If more efficient motor than: E510-215-H3-U (47A in CT (HD mode) and 27A in derated mode for single phase, would use a DC buss choke)








						VFD, 15hp, 48A, CT/VT, 230VAC, 3 Phase, F4,12.66x8
					

VFD, 15hp, 48A, CT/VT, 230VAC, 3 Phase, F4,12.66x8.84x8.11", Med. Duty Compact, NEMA1/IP20




					www.wolfautomation.com
				




Hitachi SJ-P1 drives, see output rating using single phase source
​


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## rabler (Mar 31, 2021)

Some back of the napkin numbers thinking of the 10EE application -
This article gives a good explanation and graph of motor torque and power: VFD Motors torque vs. HP
The "Constant Torque" range is below 60Hz.  That motor is rated 10:1 Ct and 20:1 variable torque.  I believe that means it is reasonable running it from 6Hz to 120Hz, which would give roughly 90 to 1800 RPM ignoring motor slip.  Spindle RPM will be close to motor rpm, depending on your pulleys.  You might want to push it to 150Hz to get around 2200RPM.  Many VFDs are capable of faster but the motor is not rated for it. 

I know many 10EE users prefer the Marathon Black Max type motors, rated for a much wider VFD range.  I'd prefer that over spending money for a "crusher duty" motor that isn't rated for a wide VFD range, even if you have to step down to 7.5HP and a 15HP VFD in terms of pricing.  These can be rated for up to 1000:1 CT speed range, meaning very slow (around .1 rpm).  I'd probably lean toward a 1200RPM motor with  at least 100:1 CT speed range,  spinning 1 RPM to 2400RPM should then be within fully approved ratings.  You can step that up a bit on the motor to spindle pulley.


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## slodat (Mar 31, 2021)

I have extensive experience with Hitachi's SJ-P1 series drives. Hitachi rates them for single phase supply. It's not the motor's horsepower rating that determines the drive you need, it's the full load amps. Drives Warehouse has great pricing, they ship fast and this is a great drive. I'm happy to help if I'm able. I run these drives in my personal machines on single phase power and they work well. I run the 20HP drive on my 5HP (29fla) Yaskawa spindle motor on the mill and it handles the motor quite well. I believe I paid $1200 shipped for the drive.


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## Karl_T (Mar 31, 2021)

OK, Hitachi it is for the VFD.

I have received SO MUCH MORE great advice than I expected.

Motor:

The seller on the teco has a 0 rating so it is out.









						Marathon Black Max w/ Encoder AC Motor TVD215THTL7726FVL 10HP 4200RPM NewSurplus  | eBay
					

Part #: TVD215THTL7726FVL. Marathon Black Max w/ Encoder AC Motor. Avtron Encoder New S urplus. Part #: AV56A 1CBE8XP000.



					www.ebay.com
				




four pole so 1800 base RPM









						150282.22- Leeson 10HP..840RPM.284.TEFC.208-230/460V.3 PH.60HZ.RIGID.  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 150282.22- Leeson 10HP..840RPM.284.TEFC.208-230/460V.3 PH.60HZ.RIGID. at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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900 base RPM

I am after the largest possible speed range. My thinking, I could run the 900 RPM unit from 45 to 2700 RPM (5 to 180 hz)

I am guessing the first offer could go from 90 to 4200 RPM. Max is stated in the specs.

Which is the better choice?

Karl


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## mksj (Mar 31, 2021)

I wanted to add one more motor to the list, ABB/Baldor-Reliance are now the same, the nomenclature for the motors does vary but I have used a few of their vector (VFD only) motors on both mills and lathes and they are pretty killer. I also used the Baldor IDNM vector motor on my lathe and pretty much used 2 mechanical speeds, it maintained RPM of +/- 1 regardless of load. I also did some installs with a Lincoln Vector motor's and they also were very impressive as well as the Marathon Black or Blu Max, but the Baldor-Reliance-ABB versions are just beasts,








						Baldor Reliance IDVSM3774T 10HP 230/460V 1760RPM Inverter Drive Motor *NIB*  | eBay
					

Cat No: IDVSM3774T. 10HP / 1760RPM. Handling fees are subject to change if item(s) are irregular or oversized. This includes securing item with steel banding and shrink wrapping. · Industrial Pallet Racking, shelving and cabinetry.



					www.ebay.com
				




Many of the eBay sellers have best offer, once you check the shipping cost it is worth making an offer. The Baldor-Reliance IDVSM3774T list price is over 3K.

If you have the ability to get the belt ratio to use a 4 pole (or 6 pole) vector type motor you will have a much wider usable speed range. No matter which motor you use, the ratio of poles to lathe spindle rotation will remain the same, a 900 RPM motor say running the spindle at 450 RPM in a 2:1 ratio would the same as an 1800 RPM with a 4:1 ratio. I have seen a number of discussions in this regard, the more important factor is the usable speed range that you stay within the permitted operating range and can generate the needed torque and Hp.  Although we talk about constant torque ratio, a 1000:1 doesn't get you anywhere if you need Hp, and the converse is that most motors 60 Hz Hp motors start to loose Hp above 90Hz and fall flat on their face at 2X their base speed. Inverter motors may have the insulation rating to handle VFD drives, but not the performance bandwidth of a vector motors. Vector motors are wound differently and have the ability to drive them with higher overload. I typically run mine at 180% as long as it is not long term. Yo are also limited with a TEFC types to cooling issues below around 15Hz.

The 6 and 8 pole motors have much more inertia, and typically unless they are a vector type motor I would not run them more than 1.5X their base speed. A 4 pole can typically be run to 2X, but performance will drop off after about 1.5X their base speed. Vector motors on the other hand will retain full Hp up to their rated speed, and will have flat torque down to almost 0 speed (but no Hp). I have put 2, 3 and 5 Hp vector motors on lathes the motors were typically rated conservatively at 3X their base speed. In most cases I did not have the belting ratio to maximize their top speed. The 10 Hp lIDVSM3774T is rated for for a maximum speed of 4500 RPM and could probably be pushed to 5000 RPM.  So given lets say a lower bound of 15 Hz to 150 Hz (or 160) you have a 10 fold speed variation and still have 2.5 Hp at the lowest speed operating point. A regular inverter 900 RPM motor you are probably looking at 15 Hz to maybe 80 Hz. As mentioned the 1200 RPM motor is an option and probably would be fine operating to 3X its base speed.

My vote is the "beast" Baldor-Reliance-IDVSM3774T, but they should all work well


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## rabler (Mar 31, 2021)

You basically need to google the manufacturer’s spec by model number on the motors to find the actual range.  At least the CT and VT ratings to see what rpm range they warrant.  This isn’t provided on ebay.  If it is inverter duty rated you can generally assume a max of 10:1 CT allowing you to run down to 1/10th speed (6Hz).  The Black Max’s I‘ve seen are rated down to 1000:1 so rrealistically you can turn them as slow as you want.

Here’s the link for the Baldor mentioned above.  Rated down to 0Hz at full torque. Baldor spec
Note that while the nameplate says 4500rpm max, the load ratings give a max speed of 2655 rpm.  I take that to mean above that rpm it will no longer deliver 10HP.

The Baldor motor also has a built in thermostat that should be wired to the vfd to avoid overheating


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## Karl_T (Mar 31, 2021)

I just noticed that black max motor is located 10 miles from my son's work. I am asking him to stop by and see if the guy will deal using Ben Franklin as the bait.

if not, i will go for that Baldor reliance

THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL THE HELP.

This is my second 10EE and I am rebuilding it into my dream machine.


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## Karl_T (Mar 31, 2021)

Just talked this over with my son...

He noted the enocder connection is smashed on that black max motor. No big deal or deal breaker???


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## rabler (Mar 31, 2021)

You don’t need the encoder.  It is helpful for maintaining extremely low rpm or very precise rpm regardless of slip.

You can always play with pulley size on the motor to get your ideal performance.


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## rabler (Mar 31, 2021)

rabler said:


> You don’t need the encoder.  It is helpful for maintaining extremely low rpm or very precise rpm regardless of slip.
> 
> You can always play with pulley size on the motor to get your ideal performance.


Sorry, repost was a cell phone mistake


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## metric_taper (Mar 31, 2021)

I'll throw my recommendation of a Teco 20HP for $1000





						Teco-Westinghouse, MA7200-2020-N1, 20 HP, Variable Frequency Drive 230 Volt, 1 or 3 Phase Input, NEMA 1,  at Dealers Industrial
					

Purchase Teco-Westinghouse, MA7200-2020-N1, 20 HP, Variable Frequency Drive 230 Volt, 1 or 3 Phase Input, NEMA 1,  from Dealers Industrial




					dealerselectric.com
				



I have 4 Teco VFDs in my shop, Also Hitachi and Mitsubishi. My big lathe has a 7.5HP motor, and is powered with a 7.5HP Mitsubishi. For the first time a month ago I tripped the breakers, as I set the acceleration to .5seconds, and had the spindle gears set for 1150RPM. I was installing braking resistors for the first time. 
The one design error I see in all VFDs, you can only set one deceleration time. This needs to be a function of the max Hz being decelerated from. So low RPM can have a  fast stop, vs the time it takes from 800RPM with a 12 inch chuck, that needs a longer time.


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## mksj (Apr 1, 2021)

As mentioned and encoder is not useful unless you need positional control for CNC, with sensorless vector mode you have very tight speed regulation. If you have the space you can just leave it or remove it. On tight fits I cutoff the rear jack shaft. I have seen quite a few people use the Marathon vector motors on their 10EE. The Hp used is really dependent on if you are going to retain the back gear or just use a direct drive. A 5 Hp vector motor is a good fit when using the back gear, but if direct I typically see people use the 7.5 or 10 Hp. I think the ideal design and what is used on current factory 10EE is 2 speeds with a 5 Hp motor and a VFD. Something to be said for the older DC motors designs, but a real challenge to get them in working order. I worked on a recent build with a S&B 1024 which was very similar to the 10EE, it had a back gear so we put in an ABB 5HP Vector motor and used the WJ200-075LF. On a few other Sunmaster 5Hp lathes I used the  Yaskawa CIMR-VU2A0040FAA.

Many VFD's allow you to set from 2-4 acceleration and deceleration rates, usually stage 1 or stage 2, some have a binary  of two inputs for 4. One can quickly run out of VFD inputs for various functions, most that I use have 7, some more. Acceleration/deceleration time is based on the maximum speed attainable so if you are running a motor to 180 Hz with it set to 3 seconds then it will be 1 second at 60 Hz. So you need a switch for setting the rates. You must use an external braking resistor to get effective braking with any high momentum system (and also with wide speed ranges).  They are not expensive, I typically buy them through Mouser Electronics or Digikey under power resistors. The better VFD's have settings to modulate the braking time if the buss voltage is getting too high, rather than go into an over voltage or current fault mode and free run to a stop. There may also be some factor as to VFD design and if it is operating close to its maximum ratings. I have had no issues with the Yaskawa drives, but there are a ton of people that have also used the Hitachi WJ200 which might be the most cost effective. I have worked with a few people that installed the Mitsubishi VFD's, found their manuals to be a bit more difficult, but have limited experience with them. Different vendors push different models.

FYI, the maximum speed on the Balor vector motor is shown a maximum safe speed of 6,000 RPM per the motor spec sheet on P7, although that is the ABB version  in the packet. Haven't seen that in this size motor. A reasonable speed range for this motor would be 15-180 Hz,  the Marathon BlackMax would be probably be in the 15-150 Hz range, although in another form they mentioned pushing these higher w/o issues.  All vector rated motors I have seen have a CT of 1000 or 2000:1.


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## Karl_T (Apr 1, 2021)

Ok, if five Bens bring home the black max; i will go that way. If not its the Baldor.

Then this VFD:   Hitachi Wj200-110lf 










                        WJ200-110LF                    ​ 

The discussion on inputs to change decel times based on speeds is something I need.  Not totally clear on this. At this time, just tell me what all additional parts to order - two inputs for four speed ranges??? I assume the above VFD can handle this.

I will read up on which brake resistor and which speed pot to get these on the way.


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## metric_taper (Apr 1, 2021)

mksj said:


> <snip>
> Many VFD's allow you to set from 2-4 acceleration and deceleration rates, usually stage 1 or stage 2, some have a binary  of two inputs for 4. One can quickly run out of VFD inputs for various functions, most that I use have 7, some more. Acceleration/deceleration time is based on the maximum speed attainable so if you are running a motor to 180 Hz with it set to 3 seconds then it will be 1 second at 60 Hz. So you need a switch for setting the rates. You must use an external braking resistor to get effective braking with any high momentum system (and also with wide speed ranges).  They are not expensive, I typically buy them through Mouser Electronics or Digikey under power resistors. The better VFD's have settings to modulate the braking time if the buss voltage is getting too high, rather than go into an over voltage or current fault mode and free run to a stop. There may also be some factor as to VFD design and if it is operating close to its maximum ratings. I have had no issues with the Yaskawa drives, but there are a ton of people that have also used the Hitachi WJ200 which might be the most cost effective. I have worked with a few people that installed the Mitsubishi VFD's, found their manuals to be a bit more difficult, but have limited experience with them. Different vendors push different models.
> <snip>


The Mitsubishi (E520-5.5K) is a 2004 era design. I put the brake resistor on it, as when I did move the carriage FWD/REV lever to off, then back on, if it had not finished coasting to stop, it would force decelerate to zero, then accelerate back up. It has no ability to recapture the current motor speed, and say's so in the manual. So the main reason for the brake resistor is to hasten the deceleration to stop to limit this design feature. 
I've not seen in the manual that ability to have a binary selector for different decelerations.


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## Karl_T (Apr 1, 2021)

The baldor is mine. i offered $500 and he took it. $200 to ship.

Thanks everybody for all the GREAT HELP.

Karl


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## mksj (Apr 1, 2021)

I think you made the best decision with that motor, I have done a few VFD builds with them and they are killer and pretty much unstoppable.

Given the high efficiency/lower current draw of that motor (25A), on the VFD it may open a few other options. With this motor I would look at the Hitachi P1-00600-LFUF used with a 40A DC choke which should give you a bit more headroom on the derating. 
Doesn't get much better than this for pricing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/MTE-DC-LINK-CHOKE-DCA004004-40-AMPS-40A-2MH/114452029021

I would call either Drives Warehouse or Wolf to verify this is a suitable VFD for the motor and also that it can be used for single phase. They indicate it can be used for single phase use, but the manual has some warnings on the subject.








						P1-00600-LFUF
					






					www.driveswarehouse.com
				




I haven't worked with the newer Hitachi P1 line, but it does often a lot more features and the price difference between it and the WJ200-110LF is about $100. I can workout the parameters and programming suggestions.

Most of the newer VFD's have both 1 and 2 stage braking ability, and also controlled acceleration deceleration to prevent buss tripping, the older Mits. does not have this feature. The Yaskawa V1000 has 4 settings, but I only use 2. The Hitachi P1 also has a multitude of setting for this, do not have time to go into into detail. I would need to spend some time going through the manual.
Mark


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## rabler (Apr 1, 2021)

Karl_T said:


> The baldor is mine. i offered $500 and he took it. $200 to ship.
> 
> Thanks everybody for all the GREAT HELP.
> 
> Karl


I think you'll be more than happy.  I do suggest spending some time with the VFD instructions.  Get it working to basic settings, than go back in and start tweaking rpm limits, acceleration/decerleration, trip parameters, etc.  Keep in mind that your lathe won't approach the full capability of the motor except very briefly in an deep cut at low RPM, so you are *very* unlikely to hurt the motor as long as you get the FLA correct.   Nor are you likely to hurt the VFD.  Just don't put a switch or anything not called for in the VFD manual between the VFD and motor.  

For example, I have a Teco L510 on my Monarch CK with a Baldor 3HP motor (not as wide of a torque range as the motor you got).   I set the acceleration as something conservative, like 10 seconds.  After coming up to speed, occasionally the VFD would trip out when engaging the clutch too fast in higher gears with a heavy chuck.  I found there was a parameter that was disabled by default, that allowed the VFD and motor to slow down a bit and then speed back up on hitting full load (FLA) rather than tripping out, which I enabled.  Now I can set the acceleration to a few seconds (maybe 3) and if I close the clutch quickly the motor just slows down for a second rather than the VFD tripping out.  Note this is actually a combination of several parameters, as tripping out during acceleration, vs tripping out during constant RPM, are different parameters.

After getting it running and using it a while, I actually programmed the VFD to output total % FLA on the analog output, and ran that to a meter.  Now if I'm taking a deep cut I can look at the meter and see how much I'm actually loading the motor.  Just little things that are possible by digging through the VFD details.    Been running that lathe now for about a year with that setup.


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## Karl_T (Apr 2, 2021)

OK, been reading the manual. of course its all laid out different than other VFD manuals, takes forever to find stuff.

Its calls for a 2K ohm 1 watt pot for speed control

Not sure on brake resistor.  Page 20 - 3 of  https://www.driveswarehouse.com/Assets/Document/P1CM.pdf  indicates 10 ohm minimum. No call on watts that I see.

Would this offer at 10 ohm 1000 watt be a good choice








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Also there is a multi conductor cable to move the readout on the VFD to a remote spot. do not know what to call this or where to order it.


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## rabler (Apr 2, 2021)

P = V*V / R,   You can figure up to 350 volts, so at 10 ohms you need  12,250 watts.Higher ohm resisters will give you somewhat less braking effect, but also reduce the wattage needed.  350 volts is pulling a number out of the air, the VFD manual may have better info,  sometimes buried in the appendix.

You can chain multiple resistors, sometimes that's cheaper than buying one big resistor.    For example two 10 ohm 4000 watt resistors in series will give you 20 ohms at 8,000 watts, which would work in the above 350 volt scenario.


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## mksj (Apr 2, 2021)

You are only dissipating the braking energy for 1-2 seconds and one is only using the VFD at 50% capacity, so one does not need giga watt sized braking resistor. Unless you use the motor with continuous braking you do not need the high dissipation size resistor, but you do need to have wire and resistor that is rated at 400VDC or higher. I would stay with a resistor in the 15-30 ohm range 1000W, if the VFD was used for continuous locked rotor braking then you would need a 1.5-2kW size resistor per the Hitachi spec.  I actually have a new braking resistor that I was going to use for a WJ200-110LF install but did not use, I went with a 26 ohm 1000W metal jacked with embedded leads. If your interested I can ship it to you for $25 + postage. Otherwise I you could use the TE1000B22RJ TE1500B22RJ which are 22 ohm at 1 and 1.k5W dissipation, they are open resistors and have close to 400V DC on them, they are also quite big/long. Alternative encapsulated type would be the Ohmite BAB326615R0KE or BAB326622R0KE which are 15 or 22 ohm 1kW and about 11" x 5" encapsulated type with embedded leads.


			https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-CGS/TE1000B22RJ?qs=VHcS2MTj4gakZZe%2FZkrdhQ%3D%3D
		



			https://www.newark.com/ohmite/bab326615r0ke/resistor-wirewound-15r-10-1kw/dp/34AC2404
		



			https://www.newark.com/ohmite/bab326622r0ke/resistor-wirewound-22r-10-1kw/dp/34AC2405
		


I am not sure if you gave some thought to the control system, but you do not want to directly connect the run inputs to the switch gear, there are some simple relay circuit designs that I have used which give you bidirectional jog, differential braking, power indicator, speed control, etc. If you have some specifics you are looking for PM me and I can provide some designs and specs.


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## 9t8z28 (Apr 8, 2021)

I don't know much about motors but I run a 10EE at work and I must say 10HP would be awesome!  I have had many times when I wished the 10EE had more umph, especially when tapping large bores.


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## Heychris (Apr 10, 2021)

I always use drive warehouse.  Their support is quite good.  They have an invertek 5HP motor vfd that runs on 1 phase.


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## Heychris (Apr 10, 2021)

Do you really need the braking resistor?  I've skipped it on all my installs.  I can wait a little while while it slows down.   Out of curiousity, how long does it take to slow with a braking resistor?  I've always wondered about that.


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## Weldingrod1 (Apr 10, 2021)

Fyi, on braking resistors and other specialty kit, they have a Joule rating and a peak power rating. The Aluminum housed ones are generally pretty good at peak power/energy. The bigger the ceramic filled hole the more energy it will take. Wire size is critical, but hard to pre-check. Bare wire resistors are nice, but tricky to install safely. Heating elements, especially flat ones, are a great choice if you can hit the Ohms. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## rabler (Apr 10, 2021)

The resistors that mksj posted are rated for 3x overload for 5 seconds according to the datasheet, which means they should be fine to use something significantly smaller than peak load.


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## Briney Eye (Apr 11, 2021)

In case you haven't found it already, Hitachi has a short app note on running from single-phase power.

I've bought a couple of VFD's from Wolf and been happy.  I have a Teco and a Fuji that are in the 1 to 1-1/2 horsepower range.  The Teco has more flexibility than the Fuji in how you can wire external controls, and my quick investigation gives me the impression that the Hitachi might be the same.  Something to keep in mind.


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## Karl_T (Apr 12, 2021)

I had not seen that a jumper between L2 and L3 is approved to prevent phase loss detection, thanks for that.


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