# G0704 (sort of) CNC'ing



## Dr.Fiero (Mar 23, 2013)

*G0704 CNC'ing*

I've had my King Industrial mill (let's call it a G0704) for a couple of years now.

I used it maybe...  once? Twice? Then tore it all apart, and started to CNC it.
I'd already made a CNC router completely from scratch (sheet of HDPE, a table saw, and a drill press!) so how hard could this be.

Well - time was the enemy.

But hey!  I got laid off 4 months ago, so now I've got LOTS of free time!  Yay!  Oh..  wait...  that's a bad thing.  :nuts:

Anyhow - notice I'd asked and answered a few questions regarding these machine, but hadn't posted anything of mine.
I got to work the other day doing the electrical box for it (worked on the mechanicals for the last while too!) and this is today's result



(excuse the mess)

Inside


Yes, I know a few of you are saying WOW!  It's NO WONDER that guy is still unemployed!  

View from the outside



I hated the idea of having the control permanently attached to the mill (or the computer!).
So, worked with what I had (hence the spare holes!). Added the IEC power outlet so I could use a standard PC power plug - then if it ever got killed, it was an easy replacement.
The 3 yellow connectors are...  uhhh...  I have no idea!  But they're 5 pin, MASSIVE overkill at 16ga.  But I had 3 matching pairs of cables and connectors, so what the hell.  
There's a DB25 on the left that you can barely see.
This is the bottom, so all the cables hang down.

Anyhow, it's been done a million times over on the machine itself, but if anyone wants to see the mounts or whatever let me know.
I actually made the ball screw mounts myself.  Split between cheap, and a masochist I guess?  Ha ha ha.


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## fretsman (Mar 24, 2013)

Excellent, and love those connectors, nothing cheap about those, good find! 

What electronics are you using?

Yes, by all means show your CNC progress pics of the conversion as I hope to do the same to mine someday. (Right now I'm using it manually).

Oh, and good wishes to you for employment soon!
Dave


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## Dr.Fiero (Mar 24, 2013)

fretsman said:


> Excellent, and love those connectors, nothing cheap about those, good find!
> 
> What electronics are you using?
> 
> ...



Job fair tomorrow.  Keeping fingers crossed.  

Electronics: 
350W 24V PS, a 2A 5V (the black box).
Motor  controllers are from Wantai (2X same as Kelling KL-4030, 1X KL-5056).
El-cheap breakout board (same as Kelling KL-DB25) that at least has opto couplers.  Want to replace it with a SmoothStepper so I can ditch the parallel port and go USB.
X&Y axis are Nema 23, Z is a huge Nema 34 that I hope doesn't shred my coupler!

Home brew nuts.  Bought a 1.5" thick 6*12" block of 6061 (off cut from a metal place near me).
Just had the lathe to work with (seeing as the mill was in 2700 parts!).



Y-axis (original nut, my nut, ball screw)



Z-nut (no, I hadn't trimmed the screws to length!)
It's a two part design, like the original one. More work, but WTF. Gave me more practice.

edit: Oh yeah - those cables and connectors (big 5 pin ones) I *think* are from an RV application.


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## fretsman (Mar 24, 2013)

Good info, thank you for sharing. Good luck at the job fair!

Dave


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## Dr.Fiero (Mar 24, 2013)

Well...  mocked up the PC to a stepper or two via the above box...  No smoke!  

One note though...  and that's with regards to the couplers that Chi from Linearmotionbearings2008 on eBay is supplying...
I had my doubts about them when I first got them.  Seems my doubts were justified!

I don't even have the actual milling head on the "Z" yet (just the mount for it), and when I did a slow up/down movement I half pretzeled it!
I don't *think* the gibs are too tight (see my other thread on that!), as I could move things quite freely.
See what happens when I try the "Y" in a bit.

Oh well - guess I'll have to order up some love-joy ones.


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## Dr.Fiero (Mar 26, 2013)

Dr.Fiero said:


> I half pretzeled it!



For those unclear on the concept...

This is what they look like new (picture stolen off eBay!)





This is what happens when a mildly stuck (from not moving) Z axis coupling gets twisted by a big honking Nema 34 stepper



Uhhhh, yeah.  That.  

Found a place in town that's a LoveJoy dealer - they're checking stock and getting back to me.


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## fretsman (Mar 26, 2013)

Yep, I had those on a CNC router (aluminum just like those) and yes, you could actually see them and they were supposed to be rated a LOT higher than I was using them for. 

Never Again. 

I went with the OldHam style couplers with the Delrin inserts from Mcmaster and they're awesome. Much more pricey, but worth it.

Dave


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## Dr.Fiero (Mar 26, 2013)

Just ordered up a set of LoveJoy couplers with urethane inserts.

Only thing that sucks is they're imperial, so I'll have to bore them out to metric (went with the smallest imperials I could find).
Oh well.  

(btw, yes I know I could order them online, but I'd be 10 days out at best - great white north here 'eh?')


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## Dr.Fiero (Mar 29, 2013)

*Re: G0704 CNC'ing*

Forgot to update....   

Got my little pile of love joy couplings. Inserts weren't quite as tight as I'd hoped. If I find I have slop, I'll know where to look first!

Turns out its really hard to find a 14mm drill bit on a whim...  So I got a 35/64 one which was only about .1mm under size.  
Which was a killer excuse (in my mind) to justify buying a nice adjustable reamer set!!  

Fits like a glove now.

Then realized that the motor shaft was now about 1/4" too long, since the solid coupling in the middle didn't allow the shafts to come as close as they were before. 
 So, out came the motor.  Zip disc, bit of filing, and boom.  Done.

Mounted the head back on it too, since without the weight, it's impossible to set up the stepper. 
 Good to see it no longer beheaded, and it's one less thing to trip over!!

So, I now have semi accurate Y & Z movement (just not precision tuned). 
Would like to figure out why I've had to slow down my in/min to so low though. Any faster, and I get the shriek of death as the motors stall out.

But, it's all motivation enough to keep going.  So I'll machine up the X shaft tomorrow, and get that moving.

I'll post a video when it looks like its doing something cool enough to justify it.


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## Dr.Fiero (Apr 3, 2013)

Thought I'd post my version of the X axis nut mount:




Top of the ball nut is obviously already "shaved". Cut off wheel made quick work of that.

So, go to test fit it together - nut is still rubbing on the underside of the table.
Shaved the saddle a bit to lower the nut, but still no go.
Took the grinder to the underside of the table, but after much grinding, it just wasn't working out (too slow, and too irregular).

Since I've only got one milling machine, I figured I'd give this a shot!


Flipped the table over - and then - got a REAL GOOD respect and appreciation for the crap that these machines go through!!

I'm only about 1/2 way done, and my arms are killing me from holding this thing down and X/Y'ing it manually.....  phew!


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## Dr.Fiero (Apr 5, 2013)

Well, the above seemed to work quite well. Not the 'tidiest' of jobs, since it's REALLY (!!) hard to hold it dead level while manipulating it under the mill end.
But I got it pretty close (and unless someone gets really nosy with the underside of my table - it'll never be seen anyhow!    ).
I think I took 80 thou off on average (since it's rough cast, my numbers were all over the board when I measured it up).

Aaaaaanyhow, I also remembered someone (?) saying that when they went to put the X nut on, it jammed up into the end plate, so they had to go back and make a collar to space things out.  Knowing this in advance, I thought I'd make up a special nut.  This kills two birds (poor birdie!) since it's also hard to get the nut to not back off.  So, added a set screw too! Only took about 10 minutes to make.




Now I can just zip the nut down, set it, and forget it.


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## Dr.Fiero (Apr 5, 2013)

It moved!  And yes, under it's own power.

Nothing set up, tuned or tweaked - but still.  

[video=youtube;ek1fmNQ7n4Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek1fmNQ7n4Q[/video]


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## fretsman (Apr 6, 2013)

Excellent, good for you, my friend, now it's the fun of tweaking her out. 


Thanks for sharing!
Dave


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## jumps4 (Apr 6, 2013)

nice job so far
i'm helping a friend with the same g0704 build right now.
i had the same problem on my zx45 mill and it was because the couplers were spiral cut. they unscrew when under high load. the aluminum cross cut and steel plate type couplers work good. i have the steel plate type on my zx45's 4200 oz/in motor with no problems. i stayed away from lovejoys because of backlash.
steve


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## Dr.Fiero (Apr 6, 2013)

*Re: G0704 CNC'ing*

Well, one thing I *think* might be an issue at this point is voltage. Or lack thereof.

When I bought everything from the manufacturer, they supplied the 24v 350W power supply with the package.  It looks like this is at the really low end of the usable voltage. So I've ordered up a 48v 600w supply.

Hopefully I will see it within the next couple years.  Ha!

With any luck, this will let me kick up the speeds without getting all the stepper stalls I'm seeing. X/Y are stalling at anything over about 80, and Z will stall above 30.


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## jumps4 (Apr 6, 2013)

what microstep setting are you using on your controllers?
and if you post your xml file in a zip file i can take a look at it for you
steve


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## kd4gij (Apr 6, 2013)

jumps4 said:


> nice job so far
> i'm helping a friend with the same g0704 build right now.
> i had the same problem on my zx45 mill and it was because the couplers were spiral cut. they unscrew when under high load. the aluminum cross cut and steel plate type couplers work good. i have the steel plate type on my zx45's 4200 oz/in motor with no problems. i stayed away from lovejoys because of backlash.
> steve




What no love for love-joy. :rofl:


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## Dr.Fiero (Apr 7, 2013)

jumps4 said:


> what microstep setting are you using on your controllers?




I've got them set at 400 right now. Did a crude steps setting in Mach (ie, I cheated and just used a ruler instead of doing it right!) just to get things rolling.

X &Y are dialled back to 80in/min. Z is dialled waaaay back to 20. 
I'm not missing steps now. It's just painfully slow to watch. 

I've got to tear a few things apart - I get the feeling something is binding on the Y. It just doesn't feel as nice as the X, which could be easily turned by hand (when the motor wasn't installed of course!).


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## Shepherd (Apr 7, 2013)

Very cool...just picked up a busy bee round column mill I want to CNC, Thanks for the great step by step...

did you build or buy the motor mounts?  We're the components bought as a kit or piece by piece?  I'm trying to finalize a shopping list but am running on info overload from the interwebs surfing and reading I've been doing....


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## Dr.Fiero (Apr 7, 2013)

*Re: G0704 CNC'ing*

It was mostly built up from scratch. 

You can see in the pictures above that the nut mounts were definitely hand made! I could have bought some off the shelf ones, but this got me more involved in the project, and gave me more seat time on the lathe I already had but almost never used.

The motors and drivers were bought from one place. Same place that gave me a too small power supply....  sigh....

The box and wiring was clearly all me.

Lead screws and nuts were from linearmotionbearings2008 on eBay.

Motor mounts were from Billy (aka BDTools on eBay).
He also does the nut mounts if you want to just buy them.
(Bear in mind that his stuff is for the G0704 only)

This is just ONE of the million routes you can take. Some people elect to stick with the existing lead screws. This does make it a lot cheaper if you can do your own lathe work, to modify the ends of the existing screws to take a coupling. If you DO decide to keep the existing screws, look up dumpsterCNC and his zero lash nuts. I used those on my CNC router project (look up the user dr.fiero on YouTube) and was quite impressed.

Did I leave anything out?  Ask away....


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## Dr.Fiero (Apr 13, 2013)

*Re: G0704 CNC'ing*

Well, the 48v 600w power supply I ordered showed up yesterday. 
Pulled out the 24, and stuffed this one in loose.

I got almost double the rapids on my X&Y!  Z sadly has made no change.  Stuck at about 35 in/min before the motor stalls.  Mind you, at that speed, I'm pretty sure I could climb on top of it and it'd still move!

I'm going to pull the enclosure apart (yes, the one above) and redo it.  I got a good deal on a pair of 12*12*6 (vs the 4 I currently have).  Attached them to each other with conduit.  I'll put the 120 A/C stuff in one, and the controllers etc in the other. Then just run a couple of DC lines from one cabinet to the other. It's just getting too crowded, and now I'm looking at adding more (4th axis, C6 spindle control, C3 speed feedback, touch probe interface....  etc!) so it was just nuts.


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## Dr.Fiero (Apr 14, 2013)

*Re: G0704 CNC'ing*

Small follow up...

Had a thread going over at cnczone.  Seems the speeds on my Z are going to stay where they are until I replace the motor.  Lotsa torque, but no speed on it. Just is what it is.  Oh well!


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## Dr.Fiero (Apr 15, 2013)

Go home mill...  you're drunk!

[video=youtube;Hcm6tdJFbbE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcm6tdJFbbE[/video]

)


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## Dr.Fiero (Apr 16, 2013)

Boredom + spreadsheet + finding a price list for your machine =

Retail for the whole machine ~$1600
Parts price total for the machine ~$8700

Hmmm...  I either need to buy a whack of these and sell them for parts, or....    :rofl:


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## Capt Meatballs (Apr 16, 2013)

*Re: G0704 CNC'ing*



Dr.Fiero said:


> . I used those on my CNC router project (look up the user dr.fiero on YouTube) and was quite impressed.
> 
> Did I leave anything out?  Ask away....



Nice conversion, and useful thread.

I looked up dr.fiero unsuccessfully. Could you post a direct link perhaps?

Thanks, Marco.


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## Dr.Fiero (Apr 16, 2013)

*Re: G0704 CNC'ing*



Capt Meatballs said:


> Nice conversion, and useful thread.
> I looked up dr.fiero unsuccessfully. Could you post a direct link perhaps?



Doh!!!!  I get so used to typing it as an email address with the dot.
http://www.youtube.com/user/DrFiero


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## Dr.Fiero (Apr 23, 2013)

Tiny update - got my C10 board from CNC4PC to replace the "cheap Chinese BOB" as Arturo put it.

Got that hooked up to my C6 (spindle speed control), which NOW (FINALLY!!!!) works!  Yay!

Now on to the C3 to detect speed, and give feedback to Mach.


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## Dr.Fiero (May 3, 2013)

*Re: G0704 CNC'ing*

Hey whatcha know... Forgot about this thread!

So, I hooked up the C3 board, and surprise!  Didn't work.
Hooked my scope up to various spots - could see pulses at what looked to be about the right rate.  Finally decided that the rate was just too damn high.  So, with careful engineering, and meticulous use of fine motor skills (hahahaha) I whipped out the roll of electrical tape and an exacto knife... And covered up 15 of the 16 holes in the stock wheel. If you're doing the same, make sure to wipe down the wheel with brake clean to get every trace of oil off. If the tape comes loose it could smack up your pickup.

Poof!  Worked like a charm.  I had  rpm feedback going into Mach.
A quick spindle calibration run, turned on closed loop.... Now the spindle will maintain rpm with or without load.  Wheeeeee!!!!   


Oh, side note...  I used the stock opto that normally feeds the front panel, to feed the C3 board.  No point in reinventing the wheel on that one (mounting wise etc). I'm going to experiment with a Y coupling to see if I can run the C3 and the stock display at the same time.  No real point, it's just a dead black space otherwise.  Maybe I'll put a clock in there instead.


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## Dr.Fiero (May 4, 2013)

As I was saying a few posts up, the control box was getting a bit (ok, a LOT) crowded
So even though I'd cut a whole two holes with the setup...  I tore it completely apart and started over!  :nuts:

Here's what it looks like from the outside right now (I haven't added the cooling fans in the doors):


12*12*6, with 2X 1/2 conduit connecting them together

Inside(s):




Now sporting a 4th driver for the "A". C3 & C6 on the side (hard to see), single C10 BOB with a 2nd still in the mail.
3 separate P/S's on the right (modded ATX for +5&+12, 48V, and a standalone +12V for the C6 board).


And the end panel underneath the l/h cabinet:


(obviously not completed!)

But...  there's the 3 X/Y/Z's along the top, 3 more 5 pin connectors below that for tach and spindle speed, limit switches, and the "A" axis (that'd be the hole!).
Then there's 2 DB25's underneath for the parallel port hook ups. Sure glad I used the mill to cut those holes out! Fiddly.

Anyhow - this now keeps all the AC stuff in the one cabinet, and all the control in the other.  Steel cabinets I'm hoping will give a bit of (emi) noise isolation.


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## Dr.Fiero (May 8, 2013)

Not a lot to add for the day...

Was bugging me about debris falling into the front of the "Y" opening, so I added a flap similar to the back:



Was trying to make up a mount (in my head) for sticking my touchscreen onto the electrical cabinet.
Started to measure some existing screw holes out, then it dawned on me that the 75mm pattern I was measuring...  was a VESA mount!
Popped down to the corner discount store, and for $29 grabbed a mount off the shelf.  Bolted it to the cabinet - done!




Added bonus, is now it obviously tilts all over, pulls in/out etc!

Oh yeah, my 4th (rotary) axis showed up the other day:


With it's tail stock.


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## fretsman (May 8, 2013)

Moving right along there, looks great! )

Dave


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## Dr.Fiero (May 17, 2013)

Hmmm....  thought someone had asked about the 4th axis, wanting to see it in action.

So I shot a video!    [video=youtube;VgJ3rlv2Hyo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgJ3rlv2Hyo[/video]

Enjoy.  Or not.


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## spyderxxx (Aug 10, 2013)

Quick question.

How similar is the King to the G0704? I can get the King 30 miles from here rather than have the Grizzly imported.

Ed


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## Dr.Fiero (Aug 10, 2013)

spyderxxx said:


> Quick question.
> 
> How similar is the King to the G0704? I can get the King 30 miles from here rather than have the Grizzly imported.
> 
> Ed



It partially depends on the month the thing was built (half kidding).

They SHOULD be virtually identical though.  You'll just find minor changes from one to the other (like, one might have a certain ways cover, the other a different one, or not one!).  Same goes for the BF20L, and a multitude of others.


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## spyderxxx (Aug 11, 2013)

Thanks

Will have to see when or if it happens.

Ed


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