# Peerless Electric Motor Drum Switch And Ground



## 98rangerll (Mar 10, 2016)

Hi folks, I just got a logan 200 lathe that came with a peerless 1/3 motor, it is wired to a drum switch for 110. when I turn the switch one way it goes on when I turn it the other it goes the same direction at a different speed. as close as I can tell there is no ground wire hooked between the motor and the drum switch any help is greatly appreciated.




View media item 95189View media item 95188


----------



## Finster (Mar 10, 2016)

Well, I  had a similar problem when I brought home my 8520. The guy I bought it off of was a good machinist but a crappy electrician. Luckily, I was able to download this diagram. Although it's for a Baldor motor. It may help you, it may not. Mine was wired so that my mill went the same direction forward or reverse. Hopefully, this at least gives you a clue. You can also try to google the motor model number and get a diagram. That's what I did.  The drum should be fairly straight forward but I'm sure that there are wiring diagrams for that also. You can probably download the owners manual for that in PDF form. I found one for my circa 40's or 50's Sheldon lathe and also for my 8520 mill. It should also have wiring diagrams. Hope it helps a little.


----------



## Finster (Mar 10, 2016)

Here, I found this in a 20 second google search. It doesn't have a diagram but you're going to want a manual anyway. You can download it for free on the left of the page. I recommend printing it off, putting it in a 3 ring binder and keeping it with the lathe. They come in very handy. Here's the link:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=3353


----------



## Finster (Mar 10, 2016)

Here is a diagram from my 8520 mill for the barrel switch. I would think yours would be similar? It's in word form so you'll have to open it.


----------



## A618fan2 (Mar 10, 2016)

There's not much I can't eventually figure out but I can't wrap my head around a drum switch - I hate them.  I've tried twice.  Did all the research, had diagrams, worked carefully to wire motors to them and wound up delivering motor and switch to the local motor shop.  Last time (a Logan) he asked me if I wanted him to just show me - I was so frustrated I just said no, please put me out of my misery.  I wish you the best of luck with yours and hope it goes better for you.  

John (who doesn't "do" drum switches anymore)


----------



## Finster (Mar 11, 2016)

A618fan2 said:


> There's not much I can't eventually figure out but I can't wrap my head around a drum switch - I hate them.  I've tried twice.  Did all the research, had diagrams, worked carefully to wire motors to them and wound up delivering motor and switch to the local motor shop.  Last time (a Logan) he asked me if I wanted him to just show me - I was so frustrated I just said no, please put me out of my misery.  I wish you the best of luck with yours and hope it goes better for you.
> 
> John (who doesn't "do" drum switches anymore)


 Download that drawing that says "switch doc." and save it. It's very simple. I believe that they are all about the same, drum switch wise.  
The only problem 98Ranger should have now is figuring out what wire is what out of his motor since they are not color coded.  However, he can probably find a diagram for that motor online. I do not know if he is paying attention to this thread since he hasn't responded at all. However, all he should need is the model number.


----------



## 98rangerll (Mar 11, 2016)

OK awesome looks like I'm not in to bad of shape all I have to do is figure out what wire is what on my motor I downloaded the switch doc and the vintagemachinery. manual.

I hate when I make a reply and forget to hit post sorry guys bit I am following you all are helping me more that you realize thanks


----------



## 98rangerll (Mar 11, 2016)

If the wires are not labeled on the motor is there a way to figure out what wire is what, and what's the best way to do so?
If there is no ground should I just add one to the housing and run it to the switch and tie them in there


----------



## Finster (Mar 11, 2016)

I would add a ground on the housing but I'm not an electrician so I don't know if it's really needed? Is it a 3 prong plug? If so, it's grounded I believe. By the pictures, the motor is labeled. Not necessarily by the hand written labels but by the little labels on the wires. Usually they are little pieces of stamped tin with a code on them. What is the model number of this motor?


----------



## 98rangerll (Mar 11, 2016)

Yes it is three prong so I know it should be go under but when I followed the wire from the plug to the switch the ground was cut off. So I am putting in a new cord.
It says
      1/3.                 60
110.    220.          5.2-2.6
                   1750
             H18-2 72 6 7
Layed out in that spacing roughly,
So I believe h18?View media item 95188


----------



## Finster (Mar 11, 2016)

There is another thread on here about this same thing. There is a diagram that should solve the problem with a little reading. Here's the link:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/attachments/furnasa14switch-jpg.62247/ Seems as if peerless back in the day, made motors for Sears back when Sears was a real store. Interestingly enough, they were manufactured in Warren Ohio, about 1 hour from me.


----------



## Finster (Mar 12, 2016)

If you look at your original pictures, the one where you are holding the wires of the motor, right above the tape marked "4W" you will see a little rolled up tab on the wire. In fact, they are on all of the wires. That will identify what that wire is. That motor can be wired for 220V or 110V. It may even be variable speed. In any event, some of those wires will not be needed just make sure you nut them so you don't get a short someplace. You should have everything you need now. If I was a little closer, I would come over and give you a hand.


----------



## Finster (Mar 12, 2016)

98rangerll said:


> Yes it is three prong so I know it should be go under but when I followed the wire from the plug to the switch the ground was cut off. So I am putting in a new cord.


 By the way, you most definitely want to ground the switch! That's a biggie! I'm about 99% sure that one of the wires from the motor will also be a ground. However, grounding that switch is a must.


----------



## 98rangerll (Mar 12, 2016)

I absolutely agree I know it wasn't grounded previouslythe wire for the ground was cut out there is no diagram on the switch that I can find I'll try and read the wire and see what they say I really appreciate the help finster electrical has always been a hard spot for me will post what I find shortly


----------



## Finster (Mar 13, 2016)

98rangerll said:


> I absolutely agree I know it wasn't grounded previouslythe wire for the ground was cut out there is no diagram on the switch that I can find I'll try and read the wire and see what they say I really appreciate the help finster electrical has always been a hard spot for me will post what I find shortly


 You can ground the switch just by putting the ground wire on one of the mounting screws. As long as it's touching metal. If the motor also has a ground, you can either put a tail on it or ground it to the same screw. As long as it's getting to the three prong somehow, you should be fine.


----------



## Silverbullet (Mar 13, 2016)

If I remember right you only need three wires from the motor to the switch and three back to the motor plus a ground . when hooked up the switch reverses the start direction . When you know the direction change wire I'm pretty sure it goes to the center post on one side . The switch when rotated connects the opposite feed . Very confusing but simple when it gets to higher power it takes more wires to accomplish the same thing. if you want two speeds from the motor it will need a seperately mounted switch I think. Don't know if this helps but it worked on my Logan lathe over thirty years ago.


----------



## RWL (Mar 20, 2016)

You didn't say if you paused to allow the motor to come to a complete stop in between switching the drum switch from forward to reverse.  If you flip the drum switch handle from forward to reverse with the motor running, it just keeps running in the same direction normally.  On single phase motors the rotor needs to slow down in order for the centrifugal switch to reconnect the start winding to the circuit.  The leads to the start winding is what the reversing switch is swapping in order to change directions.  I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I'm just trying to keep you from chasing your tail and potentially creating new problems by altering the wiring if hadn't already known this.  I have not examined the wiring diagrams that several others posted for you, but when you mention that the motor just goes at a different speed when the drum switch is moved to the opposite position, it makes me wonder (assuming the other poster was correct that this motor can be wired for both 110 and 220 v) whether the original owner miswired it to the 220 volt wiring instead of reversing the motor.


----------



## 98rangerll (Apr 2, 2016)

Sorry had mid terms or I would have responded faster yes I allowed the spindle to quite spinning before changing the switch to the other side the original wires are marked 1,2,3,and 4


----------



## 98rangerll (Apr 2, 2016)

Finster said:


> I would add a ground on the housing but I'm not an electrician so I don't know if it's really needed? Is it a 3 prong plug? If so, it's grounded I believe. By the pictures, the motor is labeled. Not necessarily by the hand written labels but by the little labels on the wires. Usually they are little pieces of stamped tin with a code on them. What is the model number of this motor?


Sorry I've been swamped with midterms the original wire tags are marked 1,2,3 and 4 it would almost be worth driving out to ohio if it would be done and have someone that knows exactly what's going on to help


----------



## RWL (Apr 2, 2016)

Hey, I just noticed you're in "the sticks" of central PA.  I'm between Selinsgrove and Lewisburg.  Where are you located?


----------



## 98rangerll (Apr 2, 2016)

I am going to Penn tech in williamsport but I'm from clearfield your not to far away though I could pack up the motor and all the wiring and link up some time


----------



## RWL (Apr 2, 2016)

I'd be willing to take a look at it.  A Saturday or Sunday afternoon would be best for me, or if you have an afternoon off from school during the week, you could potentially bring it down then. If it were a known quick fix I'd tackle it in an evening, but when you have to start to fiddle around it has the potential to run late into the night so I'm hesitant to suggest an evening.  It takes about an hour at the speed limit to get to Penn Tech from my place.


----------



## 98rangerll (Apr 2, 2016)

Well maybe next week or weekend I could run down and bring it I'm willing to bet it won't be to bad to do I an just lost with electrical


----------



## RWL (Apr 3, 2016)

Lets see if I can save you a trip, although if this doesn't work I'm happy to look at your motor and drum switch.  There should be 4 wires coming from the motor to the drum switch.  Two will be to the starting windings and the other two will be to the run windings. The start windings determine the direction the motor rotates and are taken out of the circuit by the centrifugal switch after the motor starts.  The start windings should have a slightly higher resistance than the run windings.  This is typically only in the 1 ohm difference range.  You need to know which are the start windings and which are the leads to the run windings in order to wire your drum switch correctly.  That said, here are some diagrams and excerpts from an article in HSM from the mid 80's.




Lead No. 8 is the one usually attached to the capacitor or centrifugal  switch.  Leads No.  6 and  7 are usually buried somewhere in the motor and aren't seen.  If three leads are twisted together,  they probably  represent  two running winding leads  and  a starting winding lead.  According  to  an  article  in  Model  Engineer the starting windings have a slightly higher resistance  than  the  running windings.  On my Brooks  1.5 hp motor,  the starting windings have a resistance of 2.2 ohms and running windings have  1.2 ohms of resistance.  Take  the utmost  care in making these measurements since a dirty contact will alter the  measurement.  If only four leads come to the terminal board,  two are probably running winding leads and  two are probably the starting winding leads No.  5 and 8. I can't cover all  the possibilities,  but  that  should help you  in getting started.

Figures  1  and 3 show the comparison between a motor set up  to run on 220v versus one wired to run at  110v.  Note that the  starting windings are  connected in series with one of the  running windings when  the motor is wired  to run  at 220v. If operated on 220v, place  the starting windings  in series  with  the  running windings so that they would absorb some of the  current going to  the  starting windings  and capacitor,  prolonging their  life expectancy.


REVERSING THE ROTATION AND WIRING DRUM SWITCHES

Reversing the rotation  of a motor is  often desired. From Figures  1  through 4,  it is evident that reversing the  connections  of  the starting winding leads No. 5 and 8 is all that isnecessary. In Figures 5 and 6 are the wiring diagrams for the terminals  in a drum  switch controlling a 220v motor. Figures  7 and 8 show the same switch wired for a  1l0v  motor.  Note that  the  only difference  in  the  internal  wiring of the drum switch between  1l0v  and 220v is a link between  the  terminals  on  the  lower left.  Pay attention to the fact that in Figures  7 and 8 Line 2 is the hot or live wire.



I hope the images of the diagrams come through.  When I preview the post they only appear as image links.


----------



## 98rangerll (Apr 3, 2016)

OK now that helps out a lot I have to get out my multimeter and see what I can see with that and go from there this looks not to bad though I'll check and see what I can find and get back as soon as I can to let you know what I find out


----------



## RWL (Apr 18, 2016)

98RangerII, how did you make out wiring the switch and motor?


----------

