# Hello From Ohio



## homefactory (Aug 17, 2016)

Hi, guys!

I am BRAND new to machining,however it is a life long ambition.

My goal is to make cool little puzzles and primarily gun work. I want to be able to turn barrel blanks, mill slides and eventually receivers.

My questions right now are about equipment.
Are combo lathe/mill any good?

What is the best lathe in they sub-$2000 range for gun work? Is there such a thing?

What is the best mill in the same range for the same purpose?

I am completely  new so please excuse my ignorance.

*DISCLAIMER* I am well versed in the legalities of firearm manufacturing, so no worries about that.


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## Cadillac STS (Aug 19, 2016)

I looked at craigslist near you and there are some lathes to choose from

This Monarch 10ee is there for a very low cost but needs some attention. Would be worth a look. Maybe not a lathe for a beginner but if you knew what it could be it would an outstanding project. And could be a lifetime tool for you. 


http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/tls/5697542890.html


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## Cadillac STS (Aug 19, 2016)

And here is a decent deal on a Bridgeport style mill on same site

http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/tld/5707731846.html


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## Uglydog (Aug 19, 2016)

Ah... she'd certainly under priced at least for the Minnesota market.
homefactory, as you are new to the "hobby" consider asking lots of questions here at HM.
Additionally, there might be a HM member willing to look at one with you. They might not be excited about looking at 1o. But, a couple you might get a volunteer.

Daryl
MN


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## brino (Aug 19, 2016)

homefactory,

Welcome to the group.

Here's a couple links with some interesting reading:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/a-guide-for-selecting-the-right-lathe-for-beginners.25915/
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/how-to-select-a-milling-machine-a-guide.30066/

The more you know, the better off you'll be when looking at equipment.

-brino


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## homefactory (Aug 19, 2016)

Thanks for the reply's!!!

I have definitely considered buying used, but I am very worried that I couldn't fix any issues that would be there and would absolutely HAVE to find someone qualified to look at it with me


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

brino said:


> homefactory,
> 
> Welcome to the group.
> 
> ...



Thanks!! I actually  read thru these before I posted. Really great article for a noobee like myself. Based on this maybe I can give some more need info to help you guys help me.

 I would like/need:

greater than 1" center bore
minimal swing(9-10" would be plenty I think)
20" center also probably more than enough
I would need a wide array of threading metric and standard.
 longitudinal AND cross feed.
A DRO would be great but I guess not a "must"
quick change tool post

I have been lurking around and found some great _looking_ machines from Jet,Bailegh,Grizzly and Bolton, problem is that all these machines have a list of mixed reviews.

I guess the question really is, can I get the options I want in a lathe/mill that WORKS for the price I'm looking for new? Am I going to have to buy used to get the quality needed in that price range?

Ow and just to throw this in, price is my only limit, these are going to be the foundation of my shop so they can have as much room as the need. The other tools can adjust for space


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## jpfabricator (Aug 20, 2016)

I would opt for a separate lathe and mill. Although not knocking the combo machines I think the spindles through hole would be the deal killer.
Welcome aboard! 

Sent from somwhere in east Texas by Jake!


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## Cadillac STS (Aug 20, 2016)

home factory, since you are new you might not have known you are living in an area of the USA with a significant amount of high quality used equipment within a trailer drive compared to most other places.  That is why I posted the Craigslist ads.  For the same reason you can search eBay with "Location" closest to see what might be just down the road.

I would avoid a combo machine mill/lathe due to quality.  Take your time searching.  You can get nice fully working machinery for your shop.

I like the idea of getting the two main machines as a foundation.  I'd go with a Bridgeport style full sized machine for the mill for sure.

You can get plenty of lathes to fit the bill.  I posted that Monarch 10ee I ran across because that is an eye popping price for that in most areas of the country, likely repair/refurb and be worth 6-10K.  But you can easily get something fully functioning.

I like the idea of asking if there is a member here or two to help you search something out in person.


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

Cadillac STS said:


> home factory, since you are new you might not have known you are living in an area of the USA with a significant amount of high quality used equipment within a trailer drive compared to most other places.  That is why I posted the Craigslist ads.  For the same reason you can search eBay with "Location" closest to see what might be just down the road.
> 
> I would avoid a combo machine mill/lathe due to quality.  Take your time searching.  You can get nice fully working machinery for your shop.
> 
> ...



what kind of cost would be involved with repair/refurb? This worries me since I am most likely not knowledgeable enough  to fix it myself.


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

I found these on ebay,

The only brand  ive seen before  is Clausing, The second Leblond says untested so could be a gem, could be a loss cause.

I really love the looks of the Warner-Swasey but don't understand what a turret lathe is.

Thank you guys in advance for taking the time to look



http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEBLOND-REG...573545?hash=item33bd149029:g:AScAAOSwIgNXq3-q

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEBLOND-REG...637e253&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=222215573545

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WARNER-SWAS...604876?hash=item281bf30b8c:g:2JIAAOSwRS9Xf8M7 ( this one looks awesome lol...love the table)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Clausing-10...d799c3&pid=100010&rk=2&rkt=19&sd=331923948959


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

There is a video on the Warner Swasey and it has aton of power feed, long. cross, tailstock, but i dont understand the turret tailstock


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## JimDawson (Aug 20, 2016)

I wish that 10ee wasn't 2000 miles from me.  If it was on the west coast I would be dragging it home.


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

JimDawson said:


> I wish that 10ee wasn't 2000 miles from me.  If it was on the west coast I would be dragging it home.



Yea i found a few of those on ebay redone for around $14,000 so that is a helluva deal


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

I do worry that parts to fix/refurb would be :hard to find, expensive, both lol


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

another low price leblond,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEBLOND-19-X-33-LATHE-/291579038256?hash=item43e3770a30:g:q~kAAOSwsB9WDZeH


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## JimDawson (Aug 20, 2016)

There are two 10ee's about 60 miles from me, they want $7500 for the pair.  Unknown condition.  I'm thinking about getting them, referbing one and flipping it, that would pay for both.  But I really need to get some other projects out of my shop first.


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

so a little reserch looks like the turret lathe is just a way to hold multiple tools and has a bit more automation, kinda like a manual CNC for improved time/repeat-ability.

This seems awesome, but im a newb


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## T Bredehoft (Aug 20, 2016)

JimDawson said:


> I'm thinking about getting them,



Be aware, Jim, that some (possibly earlier) 10ee's had pre-solid state electronic drives, the one my employer bought had to have solid state drive installed. This was in 1985 or so.


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## JimDawson (Aug 20, 2016)

T Bredehoft said:


> Be aware, Jim, that some (possibly earlier) 10ee's had pre-solid state electronic drives, the one my employer bought had to have solid state drive installed. This was in 1985 or so.



That's an easy fix.  It's pretty simple to replace the old thyratron tubes with SCRs if needed.  I actually have some experience with old MG sets.


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## Cadillac STS (Aug 20, 2016)

I have a Warner Swasey like that and it is great. Not for you though. Won't do threading and if you have only one lathe you need that. Will do threading but only with a die setup, can't change gears for threading. Threading is a fun and important skill to have

Good example of why to take time and ask questions.


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## Cadillac STS (Aug 20, 2016)

homefactory said:


> so a little reserch looks like the turret lathe is just a way to hold multiple tools and has a bit more automation, kinda like a manual CNC for improved time/repeat-ability.
> 
> This seems awesome, but im a newb



Yes turret is for multiple functions with repeatability. For hobby use not really needed.  But cool nonetheless.


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## Cadillac STS (Aug 20, 2016)

I think key thing is to be sure whatever it is get power cross feed and a threading gear box.


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

Cadillac STS said:


> I have a Warner Swasey like that and it is great. Not for you though. Won't do threading and if you have only one lathe you need that. Will do threading but only with a die setup, can't change gears for threading. Threading is a fun and important skill to have
> 
> Good example of why to take time and ask questions.



DANG! I thought with all the feeds and speeds it would be able to thread, but yea no threading pretty much takes it out of the running. Awesome looking machine and looks like it was made just up the road in Cleveland


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEBLOND-15-...836812?hash=item2a59c6f24c:g:wFYAAOSwDFNWE9RU

This one is a bit more than I wanted to spend, but it looks to have everything I need and a few invaluable accessorizes.

But is 600RPM max to low?

just realized my search criteria got turned off....this one is on the other side of the country lol


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-PA...647957?hash=item3d213cf495:g:7B0AAOSwARZXmmQc

Here is a monster, wayyyy bigger than i need, but honestly what are the disadvantages to this? I have the room and the price is good


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

This guy is in bad shape, but I see the words Monarch and $598.....seems like worth taking a look.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MONARCH-12C...442251?hash=item3d234fdfcb:g:rg0AAOSwMtxXtyb7


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/Machine-Tools/Used-Monarch-Lathe/03160170002/

this place has tons of mills and lathes for GREAT prices but they are untested, they do offer 30 day money back tho


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## Cadillac STS (Aug 20, 2016)

homefactory said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-PA...647957?hash=item3d213cf495:g:7B0AAOSwARZXmmQc
> 
> Here is a monster, wayyyy bigger than i need, but honestly what are the disadvantages to this? I have the room and the price is good




It has a threading gearbox, power cross slide and even a taper function. So large you could hold a smaller 3 jaw chuck in the 4 jaw 

Check what it needs for power.  Likely at least 220 3 phase but might need 440.  Ask them what the power input is.

Check what parts availability is if it needs work.


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## Cadillac STS (Aug 20, 2016)

homefactory said:


> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/Machine-Tools/Used-Monarch-Lathe/03160170002/
> 
> this place has tons of mills and lathes for GREAT prices but they are untested, they do offer 30 day money back tho




See you are in a nice area of the country for used machinery.  That Monarch for $1100 looks nice.  Would be helpful to find someone close that can go with you to look at things.  Guys at that machinery place might help you with honest impressions and options especially if you go in there wanting to buy a mill and lathe from them.  Better to see them in use but there is the 30 day thing, ask about restocking fees.


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

Cadillac STS said:


> It has a threading gearbox, power cross slide and even a taper function. So large you could hold a smaller 3 jaw chuck in the 4 jaw
> 
> Check what it needs for power.  Likely at least 220 3 phase but might need 440.  Ask them what the power input is.
> 
> Check what parts availability is if it needs work.



electric 3/60/220/440


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/Machine-Tools/Used-Leblond-Regal-Lathe/03162300003/

this looks promising as well

BTW that peacemaker weighs 15,000LBS


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

Cadillac STS said:


> See you are in a nice area of the country for used machinery.  That Monarch for $1100 looks nice.  Would be helpful to find someone close that can go with you to look at things.  Guys at that machinery place might help you with honest impressions and options especially if you go in there wanting to buy a mill and lathe from them.  Better to see them in use but there is the 30 day thing, ask about restocking fees.



there restock isnt to bad, they also exept offers so maybe i could get a deal on a lath mill package


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## Cadillac STS (Aug 20, 2016)

homefactory said:


> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/Machine-Tools/Used-Leblond-Regal-Lathe/03162300003/
> 
> this looks promising as well
> 
> BTW that peacemaker weighs 15,000LBS




Nice prices there and it is local to you.  I'd take a day and go down there to look around.  

Look for something with parts available, hopefully company still going for parts if needed.

Nice Monarch there.  Need someone knowledgeable to look at it for wear.


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## Cadillac STS (Aug 20, 2016)

Look at this cabinet for tools.  Blue Print cabinet.  Very nice to be able to lay out all the lathe and mill tools so you can open a drawer and look over all your things.  Pick out the next tool for your quick change tool post on the lathe and put the last one away, etc..  Line the drawers with rubber mat for toolboxes to protect the tools.

This one may be a bit high price, maybe not.  But something to look out for for your machine shop.

https://cleveland.craigslist.org/art/5690332851.html


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

Cadillac STS said:


> Look at this cabinet for tools.  Blue Print cabinet.  Very nice to be able to lay out all the lathe and mill tools so you can open a drawer and look over all your things.  Pick out the next tool for your quick change tool post on the lathe and put the last one away, etc..  Line the drawers with rubber mat for toolboxes to protect the tools.
> 
> This one may be a bit high price, maybe not.  But something to look out for for your machine shop.
> 
> https://cleveland.craigslist.org/art/5690332851.html



something like this will definitely be on the list one my core machines are in house


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## T Bredehoft (Aug 20, 2016)

JimDawson said:


> That's an easy fix.



I forgot, modern electronics trumps 1980's electronics. Sure it's simple now.


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/Machine-Tools/Used-Leblond-Regal-Lathe/03162300003/

for more than just price, this guy seems really promising, it looks to be 40,s 50,s era which I believe is all American made, these seem to be around enough to find parts.

What do you think?


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/Machine-Tools/Used-Bridgeport-Vertical-Mill/09150430114/

here is a Bridgeport mill super cheap as well


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## Cadillac STS (Aug 20, 2016)

homefactory said:


> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/Machine-Tools/Used-Bridgeport-Vertical-Mill/09150430114/
> 
> here is a Bridgeport mill super cheap as well



I would avoid the round ram Bridgeport, the part the head is connected to the base.  It is very old.  Be sure the Bridgeport has R8 collet capability, some very old ones don't and tooling might be limited.


And you are torturing some of the people on here with those low prices...


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

Cadillac STS said:


> I would avoid the round ram Bridgeport, the part the head is connected to the base.  It is very old.  Be sure the Bridgeport has R8 collet capability, some very old ones don't and tooling might be limited.
> 
> 
> And you are torturing some of the people on here with those low prices...



I am sorry!!! I have seen a few cons posted about round ram like indexing, repeat ability


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## homefactory (Aug 20, 2016)

I got excited, and I made an offer on this Monarch,

https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/Machine-Tools/Used-Monarch-Lathe/03160170002/

I went really low but we will see...

It is a CB tool lathe from 1944


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## homefactory (Aug 21, 2016)

If they except my offer, is there any knowledgeable people around Canton that would be willing to help me figure out what it needs and maybe make a project out of it?

Maybe a "pizza and beer" meeting to get out of the house lol


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## Cadillac STS (Aug 21, 2016)

At full price that looks like a great deal.  Unless it is totally frozen and won't turn or something. Good move with the Monarch brand.  They are supported and people know about them.

Ask if they would connect power for you to see it work.

*Look at some other areas on this web site for people to stop over or go there to check it out before final payment. * This is the beginners forum listing and might not get everyone's attention.  There is the Monarch machine area, people love these for good reason and someone may be close enough to come out.  Look in the Rigging and delivery area for someone that might help transport  it and may be knowledgeable.  Look in the apprentice/mentor area and ask for help with this.

I would post there and post that link to the machine and you will probably get interest in helping.

Those machines are plentiful where you are but so are the guys that spent their work life with them so should be help around.


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## homefactory (Aug 21, 2016)

Cadillac STS said:


> At full price that looks like a great deal.  Unless it is totally frozen and won't turn or something. Good move with the Monarch brand.  They are supported and people know about them.
> 
> Ask if they would connect power for you to see it work.
> 
> ...



Thank you! I am so glad I found this forum!


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## homefactory (Aug 21, 2016)

Well guys, I got some input on some of the other forum sections and i am a little worried this Monarch may be so much lathe that I cant use it for what I want.

Just kinda Bumping this thread to get some new input.


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## bosephus (Aug 21, 2016)

I have tried to go look at that 10ee on craigslist ..   I'd say the reason it has been listed for about 6 months and not sold already is the  owner doesnt  respond to inquiry  at all .

After at least 10 attempts of my own and as many from friends I've wrote it off as a scam


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## pineyfolks (Aug 22, 2016)

I would take a hard look at what type work you are planning on doing. You'll get a lot of input if we have an idea of your projects. I've bought several pieces of equipment from HGR Industrial and I would definitely recommend going to look before making an offer. Pictures don't tell the whole story.  I don't know your experience level but a large monarch or similar machine can cause serious injury or death, you just don't stall those machines. They do whatever you tell them and don't stop, even if it's wrong. Stay safe and enjoy the forum.


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## homefactory (Aug 22, 2016)

Well the time has come to make a decision, after all the input I believe that the Monarch while a great machine, is to much machine for me, I can get this LeBlond  for $450.

What do you think?




https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/Machine-Tools/Used-Leblond-Regal-Lathe/03162300003/


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## JimDawson (Aug 22, 2016)

homefactory said:


> What do you think?



If all of that equipment is in one location and those guys are within reasonable driving distance for you it would be worth a road trip to kick some tires.  They are advertising a lot of equipment, but without looking it's pretty hard to tell what they're selling.  You could learn a lot just by walking around their warehouse.  I wish I wasn't 2500 miles away, it would be a fun afternoon.


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## homefactory (Aug 22, 2016)

JimDawson said:


> If all of that equipment is in one location and those guys are within reasonable driving distance for you it would be worth a road trip to kick some tires.  They are advertising a lot of equipment, but without looking it's pretty hard to tell what they're selling.  You could learn a lot just by walking around their warehouse.  I wish I wasn't 2500 miles away, it would be a fun afternoon.



Yea it's only about 80min from me.

I guess my biggest question is, what would make this not worth $450? Obviously if it's seized up the ways are beat to death. But what makes a machine not worth fixing?


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## T Bredehoft (Aug 22, 2016)

Question....





homefactory said:


> Obviously if it's seized up the ways are beat to death.



Answer....





homefactory said:


> what makes a machine not worth fixing?



If the first statement is true, you're talking at least a couple of thousand dollars. Not something a beginner can handle without professional help.


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## homefactory (Aug 22, 2016)

T Bredehoft said:


> Question....
> 
> Answer....
> 
> If the first statement is true, you're talking at least a couple of thousand dollars. Not something a beginner can handle without professional help.



Right, but what else? Is there other things besides those two major things that would make it not worth the time/money


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## JimDawson (Aug 22, 2016)

homefactory said:


> But what makes a machine not worth fixing?



That is a really good question.

I guess that point is where the cost of repairs exceeds the value to *you*.  It's pretty subjective.  Consider the case of a rusted out old car sitting in a field somewhere.  To one collector it might have a lot of value, to someone else it might be scrap metal.

I guess it comes down to: Do you want a project or a tool?  I buy used machinery and fix it up for my own use.  I look at a machine in terms of wear, if it has more wear than I am willing to deal with, then I don't buy it.  I also look at it in terms of can I make money with it, if the cost of repairs (including my labor) is going to exceed what I think I can sell time on it for then it's no sale.  Every machine I buy has to carry it's own weight in one way or another.

One other thing comes to mind, one major flaw is normally easier to fix than a whole bunch of little stuff.

I don't know is this makes any sense, but it's the way I approach buying decisions.
.


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## Cadillac STS (Aug 22, 2016)

homefactory said:


> Well the time has come to make a decision, after all the input I believe that the Monarch while a great machine, is to much machine for me, I can get this LeBlond  for $450.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> ...




For $450 and if you can tow it home yourself it looks good by the pictures.  Have to see it in person.  Good work asking questions about it.  If it ended up not working out you could probably get half or more of the money back just selling the chuck.


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## mcostello (Aug 22, 2016)

One major flaw might sink the financial ship. where as several minor flaws MIGHT be Hobby Machinist fixable.  How's that for a plug?


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## pineyfolks (Aug 23, 2016)

As close as you are, I would go look at it. A broken gear in the drivetrain can't be seen but it can be felt easily by rolling the machine over by hand. Gears can be expensive. If gunsmith work is on your mind, older machines have small spindle bores and long headstocks that make supporting a barrel a little more complicated. I like the looks of the machine but I'm an old iron nut. I especially like the sticker on the headstock. I'd like one for my own lathe.


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