# New Mill vice. Did I Screw up?



## epanzella (Jul 19, 2019)

I just got the harbor freight version of the RF30 mill drill.  Today my 6 inch mill vice arrived from Victor Tool. This thing is way bigger than I expected. The vice fits on the table but I'm wondering if it's size will limit travel to the point where the vice's capacity will be a hindrance rather than a benefit.  Is it a bad fit for my RF30? I never had a mill before so help would be appreciated.


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## darkzero (Jul 19, 2019)

I wouldn't say you screwed up, I've seen lots of people put oversized vises for the size mill they have. But 6" is way too big for a RF-30 IMO. I have a RF-45 and I went with a 5" Glacern vise but really a 4" is better suited for my size mill IMO. Actually my mill came free with a 4" Kurt style vise. My mill doesn't even have enough Y axis travel to make full use of the 5" vise.

A 6" vise will have a lot of over hang too, if you don't have a DRO, it'll make it hard to read the Y axis dial. Having a huge vise really has no advantage & it's just extra weight (I remove my vise quite often). However, if you ever upgrade to a full size knee mill the 6" will be perfect.

I actually just ordered a 4" screwless vise, should be here Monday. I suspect I may end up using it just as much as the 5" if not more.


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## dulltool17 (Jul 19, 2019)

I use a 6" vise on my G9729 combo Lathe/mill and find it to be a bit cumbersome, but great for holding larger workpieces.   Like Darkzero said, it does have a lot of overhang, but I haven't found it to be any more limiting than the machine itself.


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## epanzella (Jul 19, 2019)

darkzero said:


> I wouldn't say you screwed up, I've seen lots of people put oversized vises for the size mill they have. But 6" is way too big for a RF-30 IMO. I have a RF-45 and I went with a 5" Glacern vise but really a 4" is better suited for my size mill IMO. Actually my mill came free with a 4" Kurt style vise. My mill doesn't even have enough Y axis travel to make full use of the 5" vise.
> 
> A 6" vise will have a lot of over hang too, if you don't have a DRO, it'll make it hard to read the Y axis dial. Having a huge vise really has no advantage & it's just extra weight (I remove my vise quite often). However, if you ever upgrade to a full size knee mill the 6" will be perfect.
> 
> I actually just ordered a 4" screwless vise, should be here Monday. I suspect I may end up using it just as much as the 5" if not more.


This mill is it for me so no upgrades. I guess I'll be returning this for a 4 or 5 inch vice. I'll take all the measurements I should have taken the first time and decide. 
Thx
Ed P


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## mikey (Jul 19, 2019)

I would send it back and replace it with a 4" vise.


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## Janderso (Jul 19, 2019)

Or buy the 4" and use the 6" on the bench. They come in handy on a welding/fabrication table.


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## epanzella (Jul 19, 2019)

Just went over the specs for the 4 inch vice. Looks like a lot better fit. Now to call Victor tools and eat some humble pie!


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## epanzella (Jul 19, 2019)

Janderso said:


> Or buy the 4" and use the 6" on the bench. They come in handy on a welding/fabrication table.


I took a toasted 15 inch cutoff saw and cut off the arm and motor. What was left was a base with a large capacity vise. Works great on my welding table.


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## darkzero (Jul 19, 2019)

epanzella said:


> Just went over the specs for the 4 inch vice. Looks like a lot better fit. Now to call Victor tools and eat some humble pie!



Good choice Ed. Bigger isn't always better. All good, it happens to all of us! 

I wanted the next size up Cobra pliers. Since there was only 2 more sizes larger than my largest I figured I'd just buy the largest size since it didn't cost much more than the size I originally wanted. Well the damn thing ended up being too big & is useless for me.   

I'll probably just give it to my buddy after I buy the size I originally wanted.


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## C-Bag (Jul 19, 2019)

My Rf30 came with a huge old 6" Palmgren vise and it taught me quickly it was not going to work. For me the standard Kurt style vise was not a good fit because you can't mount the vise sideways so you can use it vertically. I got a 4" this style and it's been exactly what I needed.


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## matthewsx (Jul 19, 2019)

I have a 6” vise I bought by mistake back when I bought my 3 in 1 (also a mistake). You might find the cost of shipping it back will make returning it unprofitable. Rest assured you will find a use for it on your bench. 

John


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## C-Bag (Jul 19, 2019)

darkzero said:


> Good choice Ed. Bigger isn't always better. All good, it happens to all of us!
> 
> I wanted the next size up Cobra pliers. Since there was only 2 more sizes larger than my largest I figured I'd just buy the largest size since it didn't cost much more than the size I originally wanted. Well the damn thing ended up being too big & is useless for me.
> 
> ...


I dunno Will but I have a Channelock plier at least that big and I don't use them everyday, but when I do it justifies the amount of space it takes up in my tool box. One thing that makes them more useful to me is the Channelocks have more parallel jaws so I can use them on huge nuts and bolts and not chew them up. More than once I've had my 16" crescent wrench on one side and those pliers on the other and I'm not even working on heavy equipment.


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## darkzero (Jul 19, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> I dunno Will but I have a Channelock plier at least that big and I don't use them everyday, but when I do it justifies the amount of space it takes up in my tool box. One thing that makes them more useful to me is the Channelocks have more parallel jaws so I can use them on huge nuts and bolts and not chew them up. More than once I've had my 16" crescent wrench on one side and those pliers on the other and I'm not even working on heavy equipment.



Good point. I thought about keeping them. I've had em for 6 months now & have never really needed to use it. The one time it did save the day was to loosen an oil filter, wonder what people what have thought seeing me do that! Haha. I normally don't need a tool to remove my oil filters but I changed to a different brand & I wasn't able to get the last one off. I've since bought a oil filter wrench in case that happens again.

I don't work in industrial or on heavy machinery, mostly automotive. I can't think of any scenerio where I might need them. They're just too big & cumbersome for me. Next size down that I originally wanted is 6" smaller (22" vs 16"), still big but easier to handle.

I think I'll buy the next size down then decide whether to sell the big one. Who knows, being the tool nut that I am, I might just end up keeping both. Then I'll literally have every single size Cobra pliers that Knipex makes.


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## mmcmdl (Jul 19, 2019)

I use those every day ( night )  in here Will taking off and installing hot air pipes on the dies . If I can't get it done with those , I break out the aluminum pipe wrenches . I can hardly lift the steel ones these days !


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## C-Bag (Jul 19, 2019)

You talking about what you used them for jogged my recent memories of using those pliers. One was to hold the hitch ball base I put on my truck while I used the crescent on the nut. 

.And before that it was the big nut on the top of the quill of my RF30.

I've also used it to take off a huge hydraulic filter. It is frustrating to have what I think is every size filter wrench and still get stumped. My '15 Nissan truck has such a small filter that I had to resort one that I'd modded 25yrs ago to pull cartridge type fuel filters and hadn't used it since. You just can't have too many tools.


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## epanzella (Jul 20, 2019)

darkzero said:


> Good choice Ed. Bigger isn't always better. All good, it happens to all of us!


I've been milling on my lathe for years and I'm often faced with too big a part in too small a fixture. I decided I wasn't going to have that problem anymore so I caused a new problem and went in the other direction! I was flaberghasted when I saw this vise in the flesh. The base is 12 inches across and I can barely lift it. Looks like it will kill a good amount of my Y travel. Even with the swivel base removed it's still to big.  Live & Learn.


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## BGHansen (Jul 20, 2019)

I bought a 4" Enco swivel base vise for my Jet JVM830 mill.  It's got an 8" x 30" table and the 4" vise is a good fit.  I ended up with a spare 6" Kurt vise which is not on the mill and seems huge, but works fine.  I do run into a problem when the table is moved so the vise is close to the knee crank, knee crank hits the vise so no quick spins of the handle.

Not adding anything here, but if you can afford both, hang onto the 6" vise.  You'll end up doing a job with 4 1/2" wide stock some day and wished you had the bigger vise.

Bruce


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## Eddyde (Jul 20, 2019)

I bought the huge Channel-lock pliers for one job but since found them useful for all sorts of tasks. One was to straighten squirrelly 2 by lumber when I was building an addition. Another was to make an over-dramatic removal of a stuck pickle jar lid, but the woman was impressed.

As far as selling hand tools and machine accessories, I say its bad karma, unless you have multiples. You just never know...


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## epanzella (Jul 20, 2019)

BGHansen said:


> I bought a 4" Enco swivel base vise for my Jet JVM830 mill.  It's got an 8" x 30" table and the 4" vise is a good fit.  I ended up with a spare 6" Kurt vise which is not on the mill and seems huge, but works fine.  I do run into a problem when the table is moved so the vise is close to the knee crank, knee crank hits the vise so no quick spins of the handle.
> Not adding anything here, but if you can afford both, hang onto the 6" vise.  You'll end up doing a job with 4 1/2" wide stock some day and wished you had the bigger vise.
> Bruce


Thanks but I just bought the mill, collets, endmill holders and the steel to build the table. I can't justify having this nearly useless 6 inch vice hanging around when I still need a 4 inch. I know I'll take a hit on the shipping but the price diff on the vices will take the curse off it.  I don't even want to store this monsoon!
Ed P


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## C-Bag (Jul 20, 2019)

I gave the old 6" Palmgren to my brother and never missed it once. So far I've been totally happy with my choice because I also don't seem to ever need a rotating base which also eats up Z. Not to mention extra expense and storage. I like having all my bases covered and I obviously can't know what I'm going to run into but it's been way more productive to invest in toe clamps and cast iron angle as a backstop/jig to clamp stuff directly to the table instead of a bigger vise. But that's just me.


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## MarkM (Jul 22, 2019)

I feel quite different regarding the six inch vise.  I have a jet jmd18 pfn.  Table is slightly bigger but the head room is quite a bit more at it s highest point 26" inches spindle to table distance.
I feel the added mass is quite important for me.  It really does smooth things out.   I can open it up nine inches and put a smaller vise in it.  Having the luxory of all the headroom allows me to keep the vise on the swivel base and have the vise mounted in the x plane and don t have to worry about room for tooling.
The vise does get restricted somewhat in y but if I had a smaller vise with such a small opening it would restrict me more than having nine inches to play with on opening plus I can stick it out the end close to the column.  I do plan to make a cast plate offset to mount the vise to the table without the swivel will gain just about all of my y.
One thing you have to remember and why To choose the round column that gets put down by all the clueless that should never comment on a round column mill unless they have or had one is the fact you can mount the vise anywhere on the table and spin the head to do work you can t do on a solid column.  Put the vise way out to one side sticking off the table and have acces with the ability because of the round column.
I think you are restricting yourself with a smaller vise.  I presume you have a clamp kit.  With the two you should be set.
With the six inch and a good toolmakers vise at three or four inches and with mounting in the six inch opens doors for you to move things around and get work done you may never have been able to.  You may not see the possiilities now but experience will take care of that!
Here is a project I finished up some time ago.  Cast press plates turned into a square/v block with radiuses and holes to press out bearings from shafts from 1/4" to 2.5". Here I am boring out the 1.25" hole.  The cast pc. Are five inches long themselves.


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## epanzella (Sep 3, 2019)

I know I said I was gonna return the 6 inch vise but return shipping was more than half the cost of the vise. My cheeks would not spread that far so I kept it. On the bright side, it's a much better fit with the swivel base removed and my little mill vice fits in the big one so I don't have to dial it in.


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## rzw0wr (Sep 3, 2019)

I also bought a 6" vice for my small Smithy mill.
I then bought a 4" vice from Smithy.

6" vice was way to big.

I can use it if needed, it does work fine just too big.

Save your 6" vice, you will need it sometime.


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## royesses (Sep 3, 2019)

darkzero said:


> Good choice Ed. Bigger isn't always better. All good, it happens to all of us!
> 
> I wanted the next size up Cobra pliers. Since there was only 2 more sizes larger than my largest I figured I'd just buy the largest size since it didn't cost much more than the size I originally wanted. Well the damn thing ended up being too big & is useless for me.
> 
> ...


I used to use 18 or 20 inchers to remove oil filters on CAT engines. Those look pretty close. The worst stuck filters in the world are no match for those pliers.

Roy


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