# What type of information should be in here?



## HMF (Jun 23, 2014)

We're setting up this beginner's forum.

What type/information should we post here?


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## autonoz (Jun 23, 2014)

Vocabulary for tools and machining processes, links to helpful websites.


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## Thoro (Jun 23, 2014)

SAFETY practices.


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## Carlos SA (Jun 23, 2014)

A thread of beginners exercises and projects.


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## Dranreb (Jun 23, 2014)

Maybe some help deciding which 'must have' tools and accessories are going to be useful to a beginner, which will be a waste of money and which ones might be really useful,

as often a pointer on how to get good results by thinking outside the box can save a lot of time and money.


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## KeyserSoSay98 (Jun 23, 2014)

*How about a "Dumb Questions" thread*? I'm so new at this I feel like a toddler asking NASA scientists for help building my own airplane. A specific Q and A for the Beginners Forum might help all of us (beginners) at least pick up some terminology and save the rest of you from answering the same questions repeatedly elsewhere.

EDIT: also, I have a used machine that came with LOTS of tooling- Much of the tooling is self explanatory, meaning I can deduce how to use it, but much of it might as well be alien technology. 
*How about stand alone (Pic heavy) tutorials highlighting specific tools and their usage*- "how to use your dividing head" "How to use your rotary table", "How to cut a taper" "what in the world is a 1-2-3-Block" "why you need an adjustable parallell set" Something with lots of pics that would be more useful than our owners manuals. I bet these types of threads would see tons of traffic over time.


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## Marco Bernardini (Jun 23, 2014)

:+1: to all the posts above.
A technical dictionary would be great, specially with pics.


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## Derrick_Y (Jun 23, 2014)

Carlos SA said:


> A thread of beginners exercises and projects.



I really like this idea.  Something with photos of samples of the current project.


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## KeyserSoSay98 (Jun 23, 2014)

By the way, I'm giddy with excitement over the beginner's forum- this is a great idea!. This site is already the most welcoming place on the internet for the beginning machinist (who need this type of place the most). How about randomly giving some small prizes to the more experienced members who receive a "thanks" or post a tutorial in the beginners forum as an incentive to pull the non-beginners here to help? Just a thought, I'm probably overthinking.... Along those lines though, I'd like to contribute $ to this site, how do I do that? Is there an upgraded membership or something I can buy?


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## Tozguy (Jun 23, 2014)

Could it be that we will be constantly asking that question? To me there is no clear threshold for who is a beginner and what is beginner material and information. What problem are we trying to fix by adding a beginners forum?


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## Shadowdog500 (Jun 23, 2014)

Links to mr Pete videos!

Basic reference info that comes in handy for a beginner.

common beginner mistakes and how to avoid them.

What you need right away and what can wait until later.

Machine safety, aka, How not to get wrapped up in your work!

im still a beginner.  

Open the the forum and see what happens!

chris


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## blaser.306 (Jun 23, 2014)

I will second anything from mr pete  and I have also been watching some instructional video's from "that lazy machinist" he is / was a certified tool die maker and machining instructor here in Canada, Quebec to be exact. He shows basics and some more advanced as well in his series of short video's.


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## Charles Spencer (Jun 24, 2014)

Dranreb said:


> Maybe some help deciding which 'must have' tools and accessories are going to be useful to a beginner, which will be a waste of money and which ones might be really useful,
> 
> as often a pointer on how to get good results by thinking outside the box can save a lot of time and money.



That's an excellent idea.  And it could be broken down by machine type.  That is, drill press, band saw, lathe, etc.

Charles


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## Marco Bernardini (Jun 24, 2014)

Tozguy said:


> Could it be that we will be constantly asking that question? To me there is no clear threshold for who is a beginner and what is beginner material and information. What problem are we trying to fix by adding a beginners forum?



Since this is not a "closed" group, every day there are newcomers, and many of them are "beginners".
After all, we all are beginners into a field or another: a skilled turner could be a TIG welding newbie, or vice-versa.
Communication is never enough: in a book I wrote I made the example of a bucket of amoebas, almost 100 millions individuals every kg. This bucket is not as smart as a cockroach, even a dumb and skinny one, because separated cells don't communicate and don't interact.

BTW, another idea could be a "crash course" (pun intended) in workholding: how many videos with poor and unsafe workholding are on YouTube?
All the manuals tell pieces must be hold safely, but without to specify how they must be held.


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## richl (Jun 24, 2014)

Lots of great suggestions. For me the things i find the most challenging is setting up a project and holding to my mill. Buying the right size vise for your mill is not the end all be all, and the web is not full of great ideas for this important procedure.

Rich


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## Carlos SA (Jun 24, 2014)

Derrick_Y said:


> I really like this idea.  Something with photos of samples of the current project.



I was thinking more along the lines of drawings, along with photos of important steps and the end product. Then, steps for the beginner to follow that allows them to work through the project and develope good machining habits, such as oiling the working surfaces before use, disengage the clutch before resetting for the next cut, cleaning up after work is done, things that emphasis safe workshop practice. 

These habits will be important later when more difficult projects are undertaken.


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## Tozguy (Jun 24, 2014)

If I understand correctly, the idea of a beginner’s forum is to make life a bit easier for a newcomer to this forum who is looking for some basic instruction and help on getting started. As a beginner myself, I find that the HM forum is already very friendly to newcomers and already structured to make information easy to find (articles, videos, downloads, etc.)

There is a lot of stuff already on the internet. What helps me as a beginner is the following:
· Free downloads of text books on the basic operation of specific machines (lathes in my case).
· Instructional videos (Tubalcain, Mr Pete, Keith Fenner,  etc)
· Machining forums

The problem is not that nothing is available on the net. Quite the contrary but there is a lot of ‘chaff mixed in with the grain’. To find the ‘good’ stuff I had to sift through a whole lot of miserable material. It would have been helpful to me to find a one stop forum where I could find a selection of the best rated books and videos for beginners. Material already filtered by experts would have saved me a lot of frustration.  To this end my humble suggestion is to add a‘sticky’ to the NEW MEMBERS INTRODUCTION AND WELCOME forum where HM's offering of guidance to beginners (i.e. selected videos and downloads, mentors, etc.) would be presented on their arrival here. 

Regarding the idea of posting questions in a forum separate from the main QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS FORUM would be a problem for me as a beginner. Not only is the term beginner very vague It implies that beginner questions are not worthy of the regular forum. Maybe I am missing something but why point beginners off to a different forum for their discussions if they are supposed to be welcome here?

With respect, Mike


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## chuckorlando (Jun 24, 2014)

If you really want to help new guys you could do a bunch of stickies. Broke down in sections. Set up. measuring, blue print reading, project how to's, how to use such and such tools.

Another forum is just another forum. Any questions can be asked in existing forums. IMO we already got to many forums and it makes finding good search results a pain. Is it in tooling, member projects, machine specific, gen machining? Plus, alot of help simply wont look in such a forum to answer the questions.


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## fatphatboy88 (Jun 24, 2014)

I think an explanation of the different types of lathes, mills, shapers, surface grinders etc and their intended uses, strengths, and weaknesses would be helpful to a beginner. Definitely put all of Mr Pete's videos, they are worth their weight in gold to the beginner such as myself. Climb vs conventional milling, the different types of end mills, drill bits, and how different metals machine differently.


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## dave2176 (Jun 24, 2014)

I think it should be a resource location and not a Q&A area. Questions belong in the general machining forum. But how many times does "how do I knurl" need to be asked? If it the math was in there with a spreadsheet for some basic wheels and maybe setup pictures, you would have what you need for that subject.

Same would apply for other things. What are the strengths and weaknesses of the various collect systems? How do I hold a cylindrical piece to the mill table so the top face can be machined? And so on. 

The OP should never post a question that he or she doesn't answer in the same post. Subsequent post in the same should address other methods to accomplish the same thing or clarify an important point. 

I think projects of all types belong in the project forums.

Dave


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## Marco Bernardini (Jun 24, 2014)

Can we post "request for informations" in this forum?
Of course for information about general things, for example about the difference between the various type of collets (I still don't understand it… ondering


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## 34_40 (Jun 24, 2014)

I have to agree with some others, this should be a "resource" with a compilation of technical information geared for the beginer like me.  

But adding another location for discussion will "water down" the rest of the forums.  But thanks for the great thought of creating this for new guys like me!!:victory:


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## HMF (Jun 25, 2014)

Please feel free to add stuff you think should be in here.


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## HMF (Jan 4, 2015)

A lot of the stickies in this forum have been left open INTENTIONALLY so that you guys can supplement them with useful information on the topics that you have. Thanks!


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## HMF (Jan 4, 2015)

dave2176 said:


> I think it should be a resource location and not a Q&A area. Questions belong in the general machining forum. But how many times does "how do I knurl" need to be asked? If it the math was in there with a spreadsheet for some basic wheels and maybe setup pictures, you would have what you need for that subject.
> 
> Same would apply for other things. What are the strengths and weaknesses of the various collect systems? How do I hold a cylindrical piece to the mill table so the top face can be machined? And so on.
> 
> ...




We're going to try to do both. Most of the stickies are open so they can be supplemented with more resources. 

If you have a question about how to do something, you can also ask in the forum.


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## ogberi (Jan 4, 2015)

I think a very important skill for newbies to learn is something my own skill set is lacking in. 

Proper drawings of a part. 

Most newbies will just "wing it" when it comes to a project.  While this works just fine on a lot of things, there's a chance that someone else may want to make one for themselves!   Knowing how to read, and how to make, drawings is important.  Quality isn't important at first, just the ability to convey the idea and measurements so the part can be made by others. 

Case in point - my vertical spindle for my horizontal mill.  I have a few sketches, fewer dimensions, and some things I decided on "off the cuff", with no documentation of dimensions, sizes, etc.  I'm fairly well "winging it", and thankfully most dimensions aren't critical.  The mounting plate was the correct thickness when it cleaned up, and the final dimensions of the outside of the spindle housing will be whenever fly cutting leaves a nice surface. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## Shadowdog500 (Jan 4, 2015)

ogberi said:


> I think a very important skill for newbies to learn is something my own skill set is lacking in.
> 
> Proper drawings of a part.
> 
> ...



+1 on drafting!!!


"that lazy machinist" is making a YouTube video series on reading blueprints right now.  http://youtu.be/dw3CrHMtzMk.  He is a retired college machine shop teacher.

I wish someone made a simple low cost beginner drafting program today.  I took a year of drafting in high school and a semester of drafting in college which was a little hand drafting and a lot of autocad.  The autocad back then was cheap and straight foward. The cad programs today all seem prohibitively expensive for a hobbyist.  I just started learning Freecad on my own last week and for all the effort involved I'm ready to give it up and stick with hand drawing stuff. Do you know of any good home instruction in an inexpensive or free cad or drafting program?

Chris


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## rmack898 (Jan 4, 2015)

Shadowdog500 said:


> " I'm ready to give it up and stick with hand drawing stuff.
> Chris




Don't give up Chris.

I too just started to try and learn a CAD program. I have tried many times before and gave up but this time I'm not going to quit. I tried to find a local adult education course but no luck. I down loaded the trial version of Cubify Inventor and am having my son Trevor help me while he is home from school for break. I'm not giving up.


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## Shadowdog500 (Jan 5, 2015)

rmack898 said:


> Don't give up Chris.
> 
> I too just started to try and learn a CAD program. I have tried many times before and gave up but this time I'm not going to quit. I tried to find a local adult education course but no luck. I down loaded the trial version of Cubify Inventor and am having my son Trevor help me while he is home from school for break. I'm not giving up.



Made a lot of progress on FREEcad today.  Now I just need to find the magic button to make the dimentions appear on the drawing.

chris


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## brav65 (Jan 5, 2015)

I have to agree with everything above.  My 2 cents on the priority would be sections as follows:

1.  Equipment description and function by size and type including the most common brands found.

2.  The new vs. used question for those buying a machine - more than just get the biggest used US made machine.  Define work envelope and capabilities - ties into or is part of item 1.

3.  Tooling - must haves, should haves, would like to haves, and the places they are available.

4.  Basic operation by machine type - include safety, correct work holding, fixturing, speed/feed, tool selection, set up...

5.  Materials - types of aluminum, steel, brass, bronze, copper, titanium, fasteners, bearings... and where to purchase.  Ideas on how to create a materials list

6.  Measuring and the tools used and skills required to correctly measure your parts accurately, including a section on DRO use.

7.  Suggested project list organized by skill acquisition.  For example I watched Tom's video about squaring up a piece of material, then practiced with a bunch of scraps.  I did not make anything, but I learned how to          
     correctly square up a piece of material in preparation to make something.  

8.  Mentors section where experienced machinists can offer up their skills to any needy person.  Could be organized by section of the country or state. 

9.  A reference section that will include items by category and linked to in all of the above sections.

The goal of this section should be to KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid).  I know that it is easy to forget as an experienced machinist that everyone does not know the difference between letter/number drill bits, jobber length /screw length...  I think that the reference section is going to be the key to all of this.  As a new guy to all of this I read posts then have to do a web search to figure out what some of the terms are.  By having a comprehensive list of understandable references the new guy will be better able to follow along.  

I know I am a new guy and know next to nothing about this new world, but I would like to offer to help in getting this idea of the ground.  

Thanks,

Brooks


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## timvercoe (Jan 6, 2015)

After reading the request/ideas that people have posted in this thread, I am having trouble raping my mind around a way to proceed.  It seems to me that this website accomplishes dispensing the requested information.  I love machines.  So i acquired some, to begin with a lathe.  The manual that came with the lathe was very instructional about how it operated.  A machine shop text book borrowed from a friend complimented the machine by offering "how too's" on specific tasks.  The learning has begun.........30 35 yrs ago I certainly knew nothing about computers and had no access to the internet.  Knowing what I know now and the path my self taught education about machine work, I recognize that this form and other's like it would be a perfect place to bring questions, "like why am I getting this chatter?" or really what ever my specific problem was.  Not to be a buzz kill, but in my mind this thread would be a redundancy of the forum it self, because the topic is so large. It will be interesting to see how we proceed from here.

Tim


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## compact8 (Apr 30, 2015)

Thanks for the information, really useful !


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## rock_breaker (May 10, 2015)

Here is my $0.02 worth. All of the posts have important ideas about where to start, the only suggestion I have is with some "Book Learning" . I picked up a copy of "Machineshop Operations and Setup" when the Florence, CO High School sold its shop machinery about 20 years ago. This book has become my "Bible" on machine shop tools-IMO it has an excellent  section on lathes.  Almost everything a "student" should learn is presented in this text. No doubt there are other texts that present the same data.  The point being that the "Newbie" has a reference source that includes some "how to data". My father taught me some basics on his Clausing 100 MK III that I now have.  After retiring I took a machinist course at the local Vo-Tech school and learned a whole lot more. Part of the grade in that class was making a spindle that had 5 different NC threads cut on it. There were specified diameters and distances between each thread size. The threads started at 1/2" and ended with 1".   The project made us (we?) students study a sketch of the spindle then plan and execute the steps necessary to make what was given to us on the sketch. I was able to get a passing grade on this assignment.      
Have a good day
Ray


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## Tozguy (Aug 1, 2015)

Machinery's Handbook is probably 'THE' reference book for the pros. The price of this book (or CD) however might keep beginners from getting one.
Many people do not know about the Pocket version which is very reasonably priced. I have been using one now for 2 years and refer to it on a regular basis.
It should be considered a learner's best friend.

http://www.amazon.ca/Machinery-s-Handbook-Pocket-Companion/dp/0831129115


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## BillWood (Aug 1, 2015)

In response to the OP original question - What should we have here ?

Although its possible to search the internet and this forum you then have to sort and find the best info relevant to a newbie - sort the wheat from the chaff - with that in mind I'd find it useful if the following list of links was a sticky somewhere

Links to known definitive threads - ie this would cover FAQs - How do I knurl, How do I thread, First cuts on lathe, on mill, on shaper - etc
Separate links to known definitive u-tube videos, some people have limited internet access and simply cannot view videos on internet
Links to known definitive web pages
Links to known definitive newbie books, 
Ditto Handbooks & Reference books


Bill


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## Wheresmywrench? (Aug 4, 2015)

How about an explanation on the different angels on the carbide tipped cutters and what they are for.


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## Ed of all trades (Aug 4, 2015)

A list of abbreviations would help.  I know a few but with most I am lost.
Thanks for this, I sure fit this and plan to use it often. Ed


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## Keith Foor (Aug 8, 2015)

Applications for specific accessories.  Things like an indexer.  I have one but not actually sure what to use it for.  Explanation of a taper attachment.  A specific area for math as it applies to machining.  Things like I am making a cutter bar for the lathe that will carry a carbide insert.  I have to cut the are for the insert at 10 degrees down for a proper attack angle.  I know I need to use trig to get that worked out, but there are probably quick ways of figuring this type of stuff out without a calculator.  Things like that might be useful.


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## Bill C. (Aug 8, 2015)

Keith Foor said:


> Applications for specific accessories.  Things like an indexer.  I have one but not actually sure what to use it for.  Explanation of a taper attachment.  A specific area for math as it applies to machining.  Things like I am making a cutter bar for the lathe that will carry a carbide insert.  I have to cut the are for the insert at 10 degrees down for a proper attack angle.  I know I need to use trig to get that worked out, but there are probably quick ways of figuring this type of stuff out without a calculator.  Things like that might be useful.




Are you referring to this type of Indexer?  A Indexer is used to machine multiple holes or flats on round stock.  A Indexer is much faster than a Dividing-head. Both are used to make precision parts. 

The Taper Attachment is used to make long taper cuts on certain lathes.  Once the angle is determined and set the cross-feed is disengaged, as not to tear out the nut or feed-screw.  I think the angle is determined by the difference between the small and large diameters times the length of the taper.  (Feel free to correct me, its been a long time since using one)

I hope this helps


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## Keith Foor (Aug 9, 2015)

Bill, I pulled out my indexer this evening and started looking at it.  It's only got 24 holes in the front ring and does NOT have but one centered locating hole for the pin.  Running the numbers it looks like it will to 15 degree increments only.  I can see creating a plate that has holes every 10 degrees, but adding the top 10 hole ring may be more than I can figure out how to do the math on.  I realize that the hole spacing would be X number of degrees off the closest adjacent hole to give you the required 1 degree increments but not sure what that spacing would be.  With the fact that it has a fixed depth (it will not slide in and out) I am figuring that purchasing another one may be the route to take.  I am also going to try to identify the rotary table I have and see if it had a plate kit for it to do gear cutting and the like.  It's a horizontal table without an obvious method of mounting it upright.  I Need to work on that and see if I can devise a proper and secure mounting system for it.  I have two tables.  One has a X and Y axis screw on it and the other is this heavy beast I spoke of.  Of course figuring out a mount for a rotary indexing table is going to be more cost effective than buying one as this thing was probably a grand or better new.  The spindex of course can be had for less than a 100 on ebay for the import ones so it's less cost effective to go through all the motions for it and still not have all the functionality that a new one would have.


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## Bill C. (Aug 10, 2015)

Keith Foor said:


> Bill, I pulled out my indexer this evening and started looking at it.  It's only got 24 holes in the front ring and does NOT have but one centered locating hole for the pin.  Running the numbers it looks like it will to 15 degree increments only.  I can see creating a plate that has holes every 10 degrees, but adding the top 10 hole ring may be more than I can figure out how to do the math on.  I realize that the hole spacing would be X number of degrees off the closest adjacent hole to give you the required 1 degree increments but not sure what that spacing would be.  With the fact that it has a fixed depth (it will not slide in and out) I am figuring that purchasing another one may be the route to take.  I am also going to try to identify the rotary table I have and see if it had a plate kit for it to do gear cutting and the like.  It's a horizontal table without an obvious method of mounting it upright.  I Need to work on that and see if I can devise a proper and secure mounting system for it.  I have two tables.  One has a X and Y axis screw on it and the other is this heavy beast I spoke of.  Of course figuring out a mount for a rotary indexing table is going to be more cost effective than buying one as this thing was probably a grand or better new.  The spindex of course can be had for less than a 100 on ebay for the import ones so it's less cost effective to go through all the motions for it and still not have all the functionality that a new one would have.




Thank you for the information about your indexer.  15 degrees isn't bad at all.  I remember marking the holes I need with a marker to speed up indexing.  I remember using one a few times. I can't recall using a dividing head maybe once.  I remember seeing some on here posting photos of their rotary tables modifications.  

Have a good day


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