# Very Hard Decisions to make about my Dad



## Charley Davidson (Nov 24, 2013)

My Mom called me Thursday morning and wanted to know if I could come help with my dad, she said he was getting mean & threatening. I immediately dropped what I was doing and went there, He seemed ok but soon as I mentioned cleaning up around the property so they can prepare to move I seen his meanness come out a bit. Unfortunately they have no options but get rid of everything and go back north to live. I know it has to be done but it's hard, we need to take my dad somewhere and he really can't come back cause it will be ugly. My mom asked me if I wanted anything out of the shop and initially I said no but after plundering and reminiscing with my dad I'd like to keep most of it. Some of it is tools he's had for years & some of it is carvings he's done and a lot is just junk. 

I have a very short time to decide what to do & how to do it. I'm not sure how long I'll be here but I'm sure well past Thanksgiving.


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## xalky (Nov 24, 2013)

Charley, are you the only sibling? If not lay some of this on the others to help split the load. You didn't really say where he is now and where they, or you ,want to move them to. I take it he has dimentia, which can be really trying on anybody. Your mom is doing her best I'm sure, but you guys might need some daily nurse visits.  My wife takes care of the elderly and sick, so i do have a small clue as to what you guys might be dealing with. She tells me stories. hew:

Marcel


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## Charley Davidson (Nov 24, 2013)

They are in Sylva, NC. I do have 2 sisters and one brother, my mom called my oldest sister to see if I could bring my dad up there until the dirty deed is done and then she would come up but my sister doesn't want to deal with him. I have only spoken to her once in the past 10 years & same with my younger sister, My mom says my younger brother doesn't want any of it. They want to go back to Ohio but my sister wants my mom to get him in an assisted living home for $3,000 a month. That's not going to happen. I think my mom should just rent a place near me for the winter then decide what to do after their house sells.


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## xalky (Nov 24, 2013)

Charley Davidson said:


> I think my mom should just rent a place near me for the winter then decide what to do after their house sells.


 That sounds like the best idea from where I'm sitting. They can get a visiting nurse which should be covered under medicare.


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## 7HC (Nov 24, 2013)

Charley Davidson said:


> My Mom called me Thursday morning and wanted to know if I could come help with my dad, she said he was getting mean & threatening.....................



If your Dad is developing dementia, then for the sake of your Mom's safety you must get a medical professional's help straight away.
If possible, get Mom out of the house while you or another capable family member can stay with Dad until arrangements can be made to have him taken into care.

This is going to be a really tough time for you and Mom. I'm sure that the thoughts of everyone reading about this will be with you though.

Wishing you the very best,

M


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## itsme_Bernie (Nov 24, 2013)

I am writing a somewhat lengthy response for you, and will post it tonight. 

Bernie


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## pdentrem (Nov 24, 2013)

Your situation is very common, get him looked at, to find out the reason for the temperment change. Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, tumours etc something has changed for the worst. I feel for you.

My Dad and I are further down the same path with my Mom. We will actively look into placement starting Monday. She has dementia due to Parkinson's. She is 85. We moved her to the local hospital Saturday due to some issues and the doctor stated that it was time to do something as Dad at 82, has to deal with her all the time. She is near bed ridden and Dad can not really move her about without help.
Pierre


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## Rbeckett (Nov 24, 2013)

We placed my dad in an assisted living facility that allows them to have a room and home of there own like an apartment, but has communal meals in a restaurant type fo dining hall and has nurses who come around and administer meds and treatments as needed.  They also make sure that the guests are bathing and eating in addition to socializing with other guests in the little community.  It is a gated facility that has a strict speed limit of 4 MPH and a scooter path for golf carts and scooters around the golf course and grounds.  My father had to forfeit his social security check and is allowed to keep 27 dollars a month for "health and welfare" items like heaircuts and soap.  The facility is very clean an well run and has visitors all the time.  The guests all seem very happy and have no complaints with the system or how it works,  Guests who need more supervision can have a respite nurse at night and round the clock monitoring if it is called for.  Medicare pays for all of it with no co-pay or out of pocket expense for him or his wife.  Hope this helps you find a good situation for him soon.  PM me if you need any additional info on how it is supposed to work.

Bob


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## stevecmo (Nov 24, 2013)

Oh man Charley.  My heart goes out to you and your Mom.....AND your Dad.  This brings back such sad memories for me.  I wish I had something helpful to tell you.  I think I speak for everyone on the forum when I say we are all thinking and praying for the best for you all.

Steve


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## schor (Nov 24, 2013)

I went thru the same thing, can't tell you anything that will help. I was lucky I had my sister to help.

Prayers for you brother.


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## woodtickgreg (Nov 24, 2013)

Prayers be with you for peace. I went through it too with my mother and Alzheimers. Difficult times for sure, hard decisions to be made for him,and your mom. Hard enough with the support of your family, very cold without. If they choose not to help then they need to stay out entirely, imo. When your dad gets angry or mean, try not to take it personally, it is no longer him as you knew and loved him.


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## Ray C (Nov 24, 2013)

Charlie,

Don't jump the gun on a diagnosis...  Get your dad hooked up with a geriatric doctor and get him checked-out.  The Doc will want to talk to the people that know him and he'll ask questions about behavior changes.   Geriatric depression is very common and there are good medications for it now.  When folks suffer dementia, it usually starts-out with some strange events like getting lost in familiar places or doing something very odd and out-of-character for that person (like walking outside with no clothes or hearing voices etc).  Sudden temperament changes are the calling card of geriatric depression.  -Huge difference between that and dementia.

EDIT:  Also, old people rarely run a fever when they have an infection but rather, it effects their temperament.  Make sure the doc does a blood workup.  Bladder infections are most common (usually women but also men if they don't drink a lot of fluids) and every time my Mother-in-law got weird, they would find a bladder infection and she's be fine after a couple days of antibiotics.

EDIT Again:  Older folks dehydrate easily because they stop drinking as much fluids because it's hard for them to visit the bathroom.  Low order dehydration causes temperament changes...

In any event, I wish you and your family well.

Ray


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## Bill C. (Nov 24, 2013)

Charley Davidson said:


> My Mom called me Thursday morning and wanted to know if I could come help with my dad, she said he was getting mean & threatening. I immediately dropped what I was doing and went there, He seemed ok but soon as I mentioned cleaning up around the property so they can prepare to move I seen his meanness come out a bit. Unfortunately they have no options but get rid of everything and go back north to live. I know it has to be done but it's hard, we need to take my dad somewhere and he really can't come back cause it will be ugly. My mom asked me if I wanted anything out of the shop and initially I said no but after plundering and reminiscing with my dad I'd like to keep most of it. Some of it is tools he's had for years & some of it is carvings he's done and a lot is just junk.
> 
> I have a very short time to decide what to do & how to do it. I'm not sure how long I'll be here but I'm sure well past Thanksgiving.



Sorry to learn about your father.  My father developed  Alzheimer's, though he wasn't violent he did wear everyone down.  My Mom was the primary caregiver with my sister and myself helping.  Also sorry your siblings don't want to help their Mother.  Keep us up to date.


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## itsme_Bernie (Nov 24, 2013)

Charley- 

Ray is correct - make sure he's been checked out.  I wonder if he is on an anti-depressant, or needs one?  I remember my 93 year old great-aunt, who I was responsible for, taking them.  Not a fix-all of course.

Nothing easy about this situation.  My great aunt started putting flammable objects in the toaster oven, and using  olive Oil for dishwasher detergent.  When I had to move her into assisted living, 
I had a friend take her out for the day, and Then take her straight to the assisted living that evening.  When I got her there, her things were all in place, and pictures even on the wall.  

She couldn't quite tell what happened, but couldn't remember.  But she knew that she hated my guts for it.  

I know your Dad's things are more dangerous than art supplies, but maybe some of it can go with him?  When I moved my aunt, I put as much of her artwork and art supplies into her new room.  

It sounds like your Dad is a little "too with it" to fool like this?  PM me if you ever want to talk man.  I mean it. 


Bernie


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## Charley Davidson (Nov 25, 2013)

Ray C said:


> Charlie,
> 
> Don't jump the gun on a diagnosis...  Get your dad hooked up with a geriatric doctor and get him checked-out.  The Doc will want to talk to the people that know him and he'll ask questions about behavior changes.   Geriatric depression is very common and there are good medications for it now.  When folks suffer dementia, it usually starts-out with some strange events like getting lost in familiar places or doing something very odd and out-of-character for that person (like walking outside with no clothes or hearing voices etc).  Sudden temperament changes are the calling card of geriatric depression.  -Huge difference between that and dementia.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately my dad was diagnosed with dementia a year or so ago so I'm sure it is. But you do bring up an interesting thing about the bladder thing because he was having issues but I think they have been taken care of. The Dr. has taken his driving priveleages also. I fear my mom may be in danger if they stay in this secluded place that is basically cutoff to everybody when it snows and the can't get in or out for weeks. I can't take any chances and my moms health is not the best both physical & mental. My dad will ask the exact same questions 8 or 10 times in a 5 minute period sometimes. This needs to be done, trust me I don't want to do it but I have to. My dad does nothing with his tools anymore, he just goes in his shop and looks at things, sleeps or hides things. He thinks someone has taken things but they have not. I need to get my mom away by herself to talk to her about what she wants to do wth the tools and stuff in his shop, she has mentioned taking them to an auction. They are not hurting for money as they have a sizeable nest egg and their home is paid for. I would like to keep a lot of his tools and other stuff for a few reasons. They are useable to me, there is some attachment to some of them as he's either had them from when I was a teen or once actually belonged to me when I owned my cabinet shop, I would like to be surounded by things my dad owned, used or made.

I do wish you were right but time is not on my side or theirs to further check into this. If I don't handle it a stranger will. It breaks my heart it really does.


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## Charley Davidson (Nov 25, 2013)

Ray, My dad has done some strange things and that was the reasoning for getting him checked for dementia. I'm not sure about getting lost per say but he has been very confused. In Gattlinburg he went into someones hotel room and got some pizza out of a box on the dresser, My mom asked him where he got it and he said "In our room" they were already checked out a kinda funny story but still a dangerous thing.

Bernie, You are right, he is still a bit "Too with it" to trick too much but I'm against a rock and a hard place.


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## Brain Coral (Nov 25, 2013)

Good morning Charlie,

My heart goes out to you and your family. My mom has been in a home for almost two years now with Alzhiemers. Her signs of it coming were, tripping and falling down, like she was tripping herself with her own foot, as well as... she constantly told stories about when she was a child... over and over. I suppose she felt more comfortable with that instead of trying to have a conversation. 

The people that are taking care of her are wonderful and are so good with all of the patients. It's very difficult and emotional to see her like this at times, but sometimes she still makes me laugh and sometimes... just for a few seconds... She's back... 

I can't give you any advice, but your idea sounds like the best way. Be prepared for feeling guilty. It goes with the territory, but don't beat yourself up about it.

I wish you all the best.

Brian


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## FanMan (Nov 25, 2013)

We went through (are still going through) the same thing with my mother in law.  We first noticed that she would tell the same story over and over again, sometimes within a few minutes.  As others have said above, a consultation with a geriatric specialist is a must at this point.  Also a living will, and if he's willing, a complete power of attorney to a family member to handle his affairs ("just in case, Dad").

At first, she was able to continue living in her own home (my father in law had passed away a few years earlier) with my wife coming to visit regularly, but she got more and more confused.  Before we took away her car keys she would do things like driving to church on a weekday morning and wait an hour in the parking lot wondering where everybody else is.   After she got lost taking a walk around neighborhood in her nightgown (a passing stranger, we still don't know who, helped her back) we brought her to live with us.  Unfortunately, by that time (we learned later) she had lost a large portion of her money at Atlantic City casinos (when her husband was alive they went there for the occasional show, but no heavy gambling).

She lived with us for a year but after one particularly grueling week when she tried to leave every night around 3am-- she thought she was going to walk back to here house (Connecticut to NJ!) we reluctantly placed her in a "memory care" facility where they know how to deal with this kind of thing.  She's still there, seems happy, though she talks mostly gibberish nowadays.

I wish you luck.  It's a difficult road.


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## Ray C (Nov 25, 2013)

OK, I gotcha...  It sounds like you're on top of the matter and that's to be congratulated.  I wasn't aware he already had a dementia diagnosis.  Do indeed keep an eye open for infections.  Like others here, I've been through the full cycle of this 3 times with Mother, MIL and FIL.  I'm now out of state and my sisters care for my father whose 95 y/o now.  My MIL had full blown Alzheimers and we cared for her for the last 10 years.  She would often take a turn for the worse by forgetting who we were and being a little mean and disoriented but, the experienced geriatric specialists knew enough to check for infections -and sure enough, they would find a low grade respiratory or bladder infection.  She'd spring right back after a couple days of antibiotics.  For some reason, really old folks tend not get high body temperature when they have an infection so we had no way to really know what was going on.

Anyhow, you're doing the right thing by taking care of them.  If you let someone else do it, they'll go right after every penny within reach.  Very few of the "care organizations" involved in this kind of care, are doing it for the sake of humanity...  -They're ultimately in it for the money.

I'm sorry to speak such stark words -but after 3 go-arounds with this, I think I'm qualified to comment.

You're doing the right thing.  Keep the technical game separate from the emotional one -and all will be well.


Ray





Charley Davidson said:


> Unfortunately my dad was diagnosed with dementia a year or so ago so I'm sure it is. But you do bring up an interesting thing about the bladder thing because he was having issues but I think they have been taken care of. The Dr. has taken his driving priveleages also. I fear my mom may be in danger if they stay in this secluded place that is basically cutoff to everybody when it snows and the can't get in or out for weeks. I can't take any chances and my moms health is not the best both physical & mental. My dad will ask the exact same questions 8 or 10 times in a 5 minute period sometimes. This needs to be done, trust me I don't want to do it but I have to. My dad does nothing with his tools anymore, he just goes in his shop and looks at things, sleeps or hides things. He thinks someone has taken things but they have not. I need to get my mom away by herself to talk to her about what she wants to do wth the tools and stuff in his shop, she has mentioned taking them to an auction. They are not hurting for money as they have a sizeable nest egg and their home is paid for. I would like to keep a lot of his tools and other stuff for a few reasons. They are useable to me, there is some attachment to some of them as he's either had them from when I was a teen or once actually belonged to me when I owned my cabinet shop, I would like to be surounded by things my dad owned, used or made.
> 
> I do wish you were right but time is not on my side or theirs to further check into this. If I don't handle it a stranger will. It breaks my heart it really does.


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## xalky (Nov 25, 2013)

Ray C said:


> Anyhow, you're doing the right thing by taking care of them.  If you let someone else do it, they'll go right after every penny within reach.  Very few of the "care organizations" involved in this kind of care, are doing it for the sake of humanity...  -They're ultimately in it for the money.
> 
> I'm sorry to speak such stark words -but after 3 go-arounds with this, I think I'm qualified to comment.
> 
> ...


I agree totally. That little nest egg and the paid off house will slip right through your parents fingers. Those places do provide a useful service. Here's the rub: they will deplete all the assets first before the state takes over. If they have significant assets, it's your duty to try and protect them to the best of your ability. There are also asset planning routes you can take, but I'm not even remotely qualified to speak on that.

Marcel


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## ranch23 (Nov 25, 2013)

Prayers for you and yours. Just do what you know is right. We know it's tough, but you are obviously capable.


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## churchjw (Nov 25, 2013)

You and your family are in our thoughts.  I had to go trough similar with my mother in law and that was hard enough.  Having to do it for my dad will be .. well you know.  Luckily you will be there to help them.  

Jeff


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## Philco (Nov 25, 2013)

Charley I'm sorry to hear about your dad. Let me know if you need anything done at home while your gone.
Phil


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## Charley Davidson (Nov 25, 2013)

Philco said:


> Charley I'm sorry to hear about your dad. Let me know if you need anything done at home while your gone.
> Phil



Thanks Phil, I'll probably be here another week or so.

My mom had the sheriff dept. take him to the hospital this morning & made arrangements for him to go into a place for a while that has a good Dementia/Alzheimer facility that only houses 76 people so it's small enough to give him great care. It is only a few miles away. I'll finish this update later tonight as I have a lot of work to do right now.

Thanks everybody, Charley


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## lrsglory (Nov 25, 2013)

Yes, out prayers go out for you. One of the really hard things you are dealing with is this. Roles have changed. You are now the parent, they are the children. Just like our kids , when they said I don't love you, temper tandrums, on and on. Oh well, this is what kids do sometimes. We forgive them and move on. Things always passed. One thing I want you to keep in mind. Our kids grew out of it. Our parent children won't. They just keep going backwards. You must as a caregiver protect and guard yourself. Do not allow your grief, and pain to take you down. It is what it is. Make your decisions based on this. I will do everything within my power to maintain and give them quality of life but not at the expense of my life or marriage.   Decisions not based on feelings, but on What is best for them. From the brain. Weather they want it or not.


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## pdentrem (Nov 25, 2013)

Ray C said:


> Charlie,
> 
> EDIT:  Also, old people rarely run a fever when they have an infection but rather, it effects their temperament.  Make sure the doc does a blood workup.  Bladder infections are most common (usually women but also men if they don't drink a lot of fluids) and every time my Mother-in-law got weird, they would find a bladder infection and she's be fine after a couple days of antibiotics.
> 
> ...



These two points are so true in my Moms case.
Pierre


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## ranch23 (Nov 27, 2013)

You might want to think about removing his firearms, so that someone else doesn't.


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## Charley Davidson (Nov 27, 2013)

ranch23 said:


> You might want to think about removing his firearms, so that someone else doesn't.



That was done right after that incident, there was a derringer missing for sometime but was found yesterday where my mom hid it and forgot where. My mom still has a 22 cal "Hog Leg" pistol.

I started the process of sorting what will be sold and what will be kept by me or my brother. It was hard not to break down & cry at times but other time I couldn't help but grin at my dad's creativity in storage, fixtures, tooling, and his amazing carvings. My dad was an incurable pack rat/hoarder, there are things I look at and just shake my head, I went to the recycling center with him the day before he was put in the assisted living home and he brought back a junky table that I returned this morning. I have been emptying cabinets for 3 days now and not even close to being done. If they lived closer I would keep almost everything cause my dad's shop is cool. I'll post some pictures later tonight of some of what he has redneck engineered. 

Thanks for all of your moral support 
Charley


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## xalky (Nov 27, 2013)

It sounds like you guys have a plan, that's good. I'd love to see some pictures.)


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## itsme_Bernie (Nov 27, 2013)

Keep what inspires you, keep what helps you.  If you feel bad getting rid of something don't be shy to just take LOTS of pictures of it.  Take LOTS of pictures of the process of taking it all apart.

Then you keep the memories of the way he had it, and don't have to keep the objects themselves.  Great way to separate the things we do need, and keep from having our own hoarding status keep us from functioning.

It's much easier to get rid of things if you know you'll remember it  well with pics- even bad ones.  Go crazy.


Bernie


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## Halfnuts (Nov 28, 2013)

Good advice all around.  From dementia to dehydration.  Dad's coming home for the first time in a year, hopefully for the duration.  He's 92.

You need a geriatric specialist.  A GP will be totally inadequate and possibly dangerous.  The meds, when they work, are wonderful.  Dad was psychotic.  Now with seroquel and aricept he's totally rational.  I've got my Dad back.

Best wishes for a similar outcome.


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## Buffalo Bob (Dec 5, 2013)

Charlie your families safety is your primary concern. Call your doctor and lat them know what your concerns are. The anger is a serious issue. Your town or county should have some healthcare resources that you can also contact. 

Don't try to take this on yourself. Contact local resources that can advise or help. Someone who understands your situation needs to advise the best care for dad. 

I have a terminal brain disease and, due to advice and intervention by concerned doctors, did whatever pre-death planning I could do while still able. In Colorado it's called the "Five Wishes" document. It clarifies how I wish to spend my remaining days, as very specific about late stages and death. Who has authority for my financial and health decisions. My final wishes, and what to do with my stuff. And where to spread my ashes. It is a comfort to me knowing whatever hard decisions need to be made for me are my own wishes. Talk with your mother and family about this. 

Visit this site http://www.agingwithdignity.org/



> [h=3]_Five Wishes_[/h]  *Wish 1:*  The Person I Want to Make Health Care Decisions for Me When I Can't
> *Wish 2:*  The Kind of Medical Treatment I Want or Don’t Want
> *Wish 3:*  How Comfortable I Want to Be
> *Wish 4:*  How I Want People to Treat Me
> *Wish 5:*  What I Want My Loved Ones to Know



We are all in this together and will all meet again. PM me if you'd like. It's not too late to get prepared..  
Good Wishes to you all.
Bob


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## Charley Davidson (Dec 5, 2013)

Found out today my Dad has shingles, went to the Dr. with my mother and the Dr. pulled me aside and told me my Mother is in early stages of Dementia.
My mother has a lot of pride & is very stubborn (Dr.'s words also) There's not much hope in getting help from siblings other than my Brother so I'll just keep doing what I can. I need to go get them on Medicaid soon maybe tomorrow.

My parents final plans are arranged & paid for & have been for years.


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## Buffalo Bob (Dec 6, 2013)

Charley Davidson said:


> Found out today my Dad has shingles, went to the Dr. with my mother and the Dr. pulled me aside and told me my Mother is in early stages of Dementia.
> My mother has a lot of pride & is very stubborn (Dr.'s words also) There's not much hope in getting help from siblings other than my Brother so I'll just keep doing what I can. I need to go get them on Medicaid soon maybe tomorrow.
> 
> My parents final plans are arranged & paid for & have been for years.



Sad news. Charlie the five-wishes are for you to have clear instructions what your parents want you to do now. For example is a Hospice situation what they would want or hospitalized? Or when the time comes to stop feeding and just control pain. Die at home surrounded by family without pain.   

End-of-life care can be expensive. Everyone reading this post should visit the 5 wishes site. At least get medical and financial powers of attorney before serious disability makes these decisions impossible. Would they want to be hospitalized for perhaps years, trapped in their own minds unable to communicate? Aware of everything but helpless? No, of course not. Me neither so I made provisions for my care at various symptoms of my disease. What to do, what not to do and my final wishes. 

Also records of bank accounts, insurance policies, and other documents you will need later. It's the right thing to do.
BB


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