# New To Me Dividing Head



## rafe (Aug 24, 2015)

I just bought a 12" Carroll dividing head the other day, I have been wanting one for a long time. but they are hard to find at a good price. I guess I was at the right place at the right time and got a great deal. It hasn't arrived yet, but It appears to be a fine machine albeit not small. There is only one plate with it and I don't know what it consists of . Looks like the bigger hole pattern is direct indexing. It has a drive gear to do helical's etc. looks like it is complete ...I am hoping I can find some plates for it. Is Carroll a fairly common D.Head. Hopefully it will be packed properly and will arrive safely. No tailstock ,chuck,or center comes with it but that should not be a major problem. I will post photos when it arrives...It's another beautiful beast !


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## Firestopper (Aug 24, 2015)

Looking forward to seeing it!


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## JPigg55 (Aug 24, 2015)

I bought a 6" Carroll a while back, it also came with only one plate and no chuck, but did come with tailstock.
I've been considering installing manually controlled stepper or servo motors to act as power feeds (cheaper than regular PF's).
As such, thought it might be possible to install a stepper motor as a driver for the dividng head.


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## Bill Gruby (Aug 24, 2015)

No pics, it didn't happed.  

 "Billy G"


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## rafe (Aug 24, 2015)

Bill Gruby said:


> No pics, it didn't happed.
> 
> "Billy G"


LOL "oh but it did!"  It will be a week before I see It in person ...I have the pics from the auction ...this is why I didn't post them it came out tiny


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## T Bredehoft (Aug 24, 2015)

Yeah, that's tiny alright.


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## Silverbullet (Aug 24, 2015)

Being that tiny won't cost much to ship it.


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## rafe (Aug 27, 2015)

It will arrive by the end of the day tomorrow. Shipping was $85.00 so I'm hoping I didn't pay too much for it(TIC) ....I'll post some photo's and we can determine a value and then I'll know .....


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## mike837go (Aug 27, 2015)

rafe said:


> ...snip ....I'll post some photo's and we can determine a value and then I'll know .....



The legal value has already been determined. One just sold at auction.

When it becomes useful in the shop, its _priceless_!


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## rafe (Aug 30, 2015)

Friday came and went ....UPS changed the status from By the end of the day Fri to ...No Info available............ finally this morning is was updated to leaving Jax and to be delivered by the end of the day Mon ... tomorrow .....still ahead of the Sept 02 date From the auction ......I am really excited about this one for some reason .....tic toc tic toc ...what you say is true the value was established and I do believe it's a keeper......so I am more than lucky to have found one I could afford 12" Carroll with outboard to boot...probably not useful on a BP  The outboard that is


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## rafe (Aug 31, 2015)

Got it! I inspected it well packaged arrived intact,I gotta go work so I will get it into the shop tomorrow ....It's a heavy beast all I can do to lift it....well it's heavy, I'll post pictures tomorrow.....and count the holes they are not marked as far as I can tell......and I was right there is a row of holes that are for direct indexing.....all the other heads I've seen are different than this one ...Carrolls included ....


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## rafe (Sep 1, 2015)

holes are 15,16,17,18,19,20. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




	

		
			
		

		
	
 I don't think it has direct indexing.  That row looked bigger but just had some slop......works nicely....I am a happy person! I paid a total of 160.88 that includes shipping, I know it's a lot, but I really have been wanting one and it will eventually pay for itself ,right?


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## brino (Sep 1, 2015)

rafe said:


> it will eventually pay for itself ,right?



Yes, i'd bet it will.

It looks like a real beast, and you probably paid under $2 per pound.

-brino


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## rafe (Sep 1, 2015)

cleaned it up as muck as I am going to....One of the three screws that holds on the plate is missing so is a washer for the plate .....that's going to cost me another 10 cents. I probably have them here somewhere ....This is a well crafted Head with very little wear on it. very little backlash if any....


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## Silverbullet (Sep 1, 2015)

You didn't pay much for it. Ck eBay prices ,there charging that much to ship smaller ones. Good luck with the beast , I always say most times bigger is better. I'll bet she cleans up real nice and is smooth as silk . Let's see some fancy helix splines and gears .


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## brino (Sep 1, 2015)

Hi Rafe,

If you are looking for more dividing plates check post #6 here:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/i-am-in-need-of-a-vn-dividing-head-plate.36623/#post-315155

When that poster was looking for more dividing plates, I photographed and posted some that my local used tool place had.
I believe there were still there last time I looked.
Let me know if any of them look right for your "new" dividing head.
If you send along the ID, OD, bolt circle dia., pin size and # of holes you need I can check this weekend. Let me know.

Oh and I almost forgot....do you have a chart showing the number of full turns and number of holes for what circle to get a particular number of divisions? If not, let me know the worm-gear ratio. Last time someone was looking for a chart I made a perl program to figure it out. I could resurrect that program and provide a file or table.
You could also look at this discussion for a few on-line calculator options:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/looking-for-90-1-dividing-head-chart.35820/

-brino


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## rafe (Sep 1, 2015)

Hello Brino, I picked up a 21,23,27,29,31,33.  on E=bay today,I do appreciate you offering, I'll just keep an eye out too. the size seems pretty standard 1 1/8 X 5 with a 3 hole patern, if you happen to be there and feel like checking that would be great, to be honest I don't know what I will need ,,,,but the two I have will open a lot of doors....I think! I am going to lube it up and reassemble tomorrow ....not even going to paint it,it has a great look and earned it's coat


Silverbullet said:


> You didn't pay much for it. Ck eBay prices ,there charging that much to ship smaller ones. Good luck with the beast , I always say most times bigger is better. I'll bet she cleans up real nice and is smooth as silk . Let's see some fancy helix splines and gears .


 I've been to Olga's Diner many many times


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## Silverbullet (Sep 2, 2015)

No more Olga's , state practically stole there property. Highway changes no more circle just headaches. The had the best bakery around for many years . And good food too.I live a stones throw from there. Yupp spitting distance


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## rafe (Sep 2, 2015)

I checked out the chart that Brino (thanks) put up and it does help ...Looks like I have the #1 and #2  (standard) next I'll want is the #3 ....That will cover a lot of options ....Kinda like collecting baseball cards Right now I could do up to 40 holes ...except 13,26,39 and then a lot of higher numbers too...It would be unlikely I'd ever need more than 1,2,and 3 plates and plate three is iffy.....but would be nice to have. I am off today looks like more rain so I'm going to reassemble the Head .....


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## brino (Sep 2, 2015)

Rafe,

Just be sure that the chart your looking at was made for the same worm screw ratio you have in that dividing head.
If you do not know the ratio, you can mark the output shaft against the base, then rotate the handle in one direction (counting turns) until the line comes around and meets again. Warning, it may take 30, 80 or 90 turns of the handle for one output turn.

-brino


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## rafe (Sep 2, 2015)

I figured it was 40 and it checked out ....It's back together and is pretty smooth....fine old machine....now that it is back together it is going to stay where it is until the bridgeport arrives .......I have a tail stop that requires a riser and need to get a chuck or collet setup or a center . I have no idea what the center hole is, are they usually a taper? I really haven't paid much mind to it yet. The thread diameter is just a tad bigger than my SB so my chucks wont work. I kind of like the center Idea better anyway......


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## rafe (Sep 6, 2015)

Threads are 2 5/16 4TPI ...oddball, yeah? I have an extra 4C collet holder that with some machining and ingenuity should work....I have 4c's on my SB ....I'm thinking along the lines of machining a threaded cap to hold the holder firmly centered ( the dia. of the holder shaft is smaller than the hole in the Div. Head ) in the D.H. and making a short drawbar to close the collets. That will give me up to a 3/4" holding ability which would be a stout center, although I could make the arbors wider if needed....I have a tailstock that I need to make a riser for...that should be a great start ....I will need a #3 plate(37,39,41,43,47,49. ...1 1/8 center and 3 screw holes... 5" dia.) if the center hole is smaller that can be opened up and the three holes can be relocated if they are wrong........thanks


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## brino (Sep 8, 2015)

rafe said:


> ..I will need a #3 plate(37,39,41,43,47,49. ...1 1/8 center and 3 screw holes... 5" dia.) if the center hole is smaller that can be opened up and the three holes can be relocated if they are wrong........thanks



Hi rafe,

I checked the bin at my local used tool store. They had 7 different plates in the bin, but none matched the one you're after.

They had:
15-29-39-40   5" dia., 1" centre hole and two mounting holes at 180 deg.
16-24-27-37   5" dia., 1" centre hole and two mounting holes at 180 deg.
18-23-33-43   5" dia., 1" centre hole and two mounting holes at 180 deg.

18-24-28-30-34-37   5" dia. centre hole 1.5" and two mounting holes at 180 deg.
18-24-28-30-34-37  5" dia. centre hole 1.5" and three mounting holes at 120 deg.
21-23-27-29-31-33  5" dia., 1.5" centre hole and three mounting holes at 120 deg.
21-23-27-29-31-33  5" dia., 1-1/8" centre hole and three mounting holes at 120 deg.

-brino


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## rafe (Sep 8, 2015)

Thank you Brino , It will turn up at some point , won't need it for a while I'd think.
I started working on the threaded cap for the 4C collet holder ...basically got as far as the cap blank with a center hole a little bigger than the collet, next I will bore out the diameter of the collet holder  leaving about a 1/4 inch of the through hole and leaving it shy of the collet holder thickness about 1/8 inch...the dia. of that hole I believe is critical. It needs to be spot on....the 1/8 inch clearance will allow the cap to tighten the holder to the spindle, then it will be boring the thread dia. and then threading it for the spindle....It might get a little tricky getting it to seat and keep the collet holder tight.I may hve to sneak up on it....anyway I hope that description makes sense, then a short drawbar and it's should fly...here is a photo that may help clear the idea up....Will it work?
	

		
			
		

		
	


View attachment 110387


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## rafe (Sep 14, 2015)

Have been progressing on the collet holder it's 2 5/16 6 TPI, not 4TPI . I have it threaded but it's a bit tight (Doesn't go) I'll have to re set it up and go a little deeper......It has been slow going but I am happy with the idea and the results.


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## rafe (Sep 15, 2015)

This is an eye opening video on the Dividing head .. outboard drive I have on mine has more potential then I knew....AlsoI'm going to post a photo of the cap before I remount it in the lathe....later today
*Differential Indexing Using a Dividing Head *
*(on u-tube)*


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