# Norman Patent toolpost



## Chinggis (Jul 21, 2021)

Many years I hate when I work with my lathe and when I need to change tool for new one I need to play with shims. There is not enough shims or they are to thick. On Pinterest I find how to make QCTP Norman patent toolpost. So I try and there is results from my work.


This is drawing what I made with some modifications. There is one modification what is not in drawing and I think it is critical for qctp to work correctly. When I made this toolpost, I find that it hard or almost impossible to secure it to central column.  So I make modification to original drawing, I bore two holes and with saw cut material to hole. I made two holes, but it works nice with one.


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## Chinggis (Jul 21, 2021)

First Norman toolpost what is not successful at all. I try to make them useful, but I failed. One of reason why I am not be able to make them useful, is that my lathe is not able to "produce" exact tolerances what are needed. I mismatch it by 5hundreds and it is to big tolerance for bolt to tight.


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## T Bredehoft (Jul 21, 2021)

You can buy small hones (brake cylinder service) that will hone up to 1.00, Make your hole just a bit small and chuck the hone in your lathe, spin it inside the too-small hole for a while with a bit of oil and you'd be surprised how accurate you can get.


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## Chinggis (Jul 21, 2021)

T Bredehoft said:


> You can buy small hones (brake cylinder service) that will hone up to 1.00, Make your hole just a bit small and chuck the hone in your lathe, spin it inside the too-small hole for a while with a bit of oil and you'd be surprised how accurate you can get.


Can you explain to me a little bit more "simple"? I think that I get what you want to tell me, but I ask you for more explanation  Thank you sir!


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## T Bredehoft (Jul 21, 2021)

Starting with a bore that is just not quite big enough, chuck the hone in the lathe (they are mounted on a flexible shaft) collapse the hone stones to fit inside the bore of your tool holder, with a bit of oil just to lube the process, and turn on the spindle, holding the tool holder in your hand. Go slow at first, and be careful that you don't move the tool holder so much that the stones escape the bore. It doesn't take long to remove a couple of tenths, stop the spindle and try it. 

Hope this helps. Just one of many tricks of the trade.


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## Chinggis (Jul 22, 2021)

T Bredehoft said:


> Starting with a bore that is just not quite big enough, chuck the hone in the lathe (they are mounted on a flexible shaft) collapse the hone stones to fit inside the bore of your tool holder, with a bit of oil just to lube the process, and turn on the spindle, holding the tool holder in your hand. Go slow at first, and be careful that you don't move the tool holder so much that the stones escape the bore. It doesn't take long to remove a couple of tenths, stop the spindle and try it.
> 
> Hope this helps. Just one of many tricks of the trade.


Thank you on good explanation, I find on Google how it is done . Thank you again!


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## martik777 (Jul 22, 2021)

Are you saying you cannot bore the 25mm hole to within .050"??? If that's the case the lathe is not going to be very useful anyways.
I bore mine to within .003" and they work great


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## ericc (Jul 22, 2021)

martik777 said:


> Are you saying you cannot bore the 25mm hole to within .050"??? If that's the case the lathe is not going to be very useful anyways.
> I bore mine to within .003" and they work great


I think he said "5hundreds".  In some parts of the world, this isn't all that much, like 0.0019".  One should be able to do better on a decent lathe, but if that is all one has to work with, the tool holder may need more of a hinge (hole with a saw cut).


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## martik777 (Jul 22, 2021)

Of course,  5/100 x .039      but if he's that close it should tighten down easily


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## mickri (Jul 22, 2021)

This will help you out.  https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/norman-style-qctp.79705/   Covers all of the problems and fixes that I ran into in using my norman QCTP.

The key to getting a good tight fit between the post and the tool holder is to make the post longer than you need.  Part off the extra length to use as a pin to test the fit on the holder.  You want the pin to be almost a press fit into the bore on the holder.  When you cut the slot the bore will open up a tad and through use it will open up some more.  Also an 8mm bolt is barely adequate to clamp the holder to the post.  You will need a class 8 bolt if you use an 8mm bolt.  A 10mm bolt is better.


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## Chinggis (Jul 23, 2021)

Well guys thank you on your time and help . Post what I make have a 5/100 differences from top to bottom. My explanation is, when I work on them, I do not have cooling system( with oil/water emulsion) so it will be hot and cutting tool is take more than I wish. Steel what I use is unknown 30mm thick, I find it thrown it, my guess is it is ships thin (ship plate).


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## jwmay (Jul 23, 2021)

Could you post a picture of your caliper showing 5hundreds? I don't understand very well. I like your toolpost. I think the machine can be more accurate even without coolant. But you will know better than me.


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## mickri (Jul 23, 2021)

I think that he is referring to 5/100 mm which if I got the math correct converts to .0019 inches.

Chinggis I would like to compliment you on the quality of the finish on what you have made.  It looks really good.

You mentioned that you have a taper of .05 mm on the post.  If you turned the post between centers then your tailstock is not aligned with the headstock.  Simple to fix.  Lots of videos online on how to align the tailstock to the headstock.  If the post was just held in a chuck then you need to look for play in the cross slide and compound.  Check the adjustment on the gibs.  Could also be caused by wear in the bed, cross slide or compound.  Figure out what is causing the taper and we will help you deal with it.  If you think that heat from turning caused the problem then take lighter cuts to see if the taper goes away.

.05mm of taper should not prevent the tool holder from clamping tightly to the post.  Your tool holder only contacts 30mm of the post.  The taper over 30 mm is approximately .02 mm or .00078 inches.  Being unable to clamp the holder tightly to the post is most likely caused by bore of the holder being too big compared to the the OD of the post.  The first thing that I would do is increase the clamping bolt from 8 mm to 10 mm.  This will make a big difference in clamping the tool holder to the post.   Have you read the thread that I gave you a link to?  That thread deals with a lot of the issues that you are having.

Don't get discouraged.  We will help you work out the problems with your norman QCTP and the tool holders.


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## Chinggis (Jul 23, 2021)

Thank you guys on you help and response. About my lathe it is old one what is for some years doing industrial production of electrical jacks, There is wear in the bed, wear  on some other parts. Headstock have some toss too. and I need to replace it, it is planed but for now I cannot do that before I finish my home renovation. I am not sharpen correctly cutting tool and speed was to high so the heat what was generated by cutting make differences on parts with more mass.  Well I am quiet satisfied what I am done, just only one will go in scrapyard , big success for me. Now I am able to clamp it tightly, because there I bore hole and saw "excess" material, with  that I got more elastic prongs so I can thigh it  without excessive force.


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## ericc (Jul 23, 2021)

Congratulations on your success! 
Photos, please.


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## Chinggis (Jul 23, 2021)

tomorrow! today I have hard day,


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## mickri (Jul 23, 2021)

Glad to hear that you are getting things worked out.  Is the base and the post on yours 1 or 2 pieces?  On mine the base and the post were 2 pieces to start with.  Then I discovered that the post was turning as I tried to take bigger cuts.  So I welded them together.  This didn't stop the turning.  I made a piece that fit in the slot on the compound and welded this to the bottom of the base.  This not only stopped the base and post from turning but it also cut down on how tight the base and post had to be on the compound.  Went from having the get it as tight as I could to just tight enough to hold it in place.


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## Chinggis (Jul 24, 2021)

mickri said:


> Glad to hear that you are getting things worked out.  Is the base and the post on yours 1 or 2 pieces?  On mine the base and the post were 2 pieces to start with.  Then I discovered that the post was turning as I tried to take bigger cuts.  So I welded them together.  This didn't stop the turning.  I made a piece that fit in the slot on the compound and welded this to the bottom of the base.  This not only stopped the base and post from turning but it also cut down on how tight the base and post had to be on the compound.  Went from having the get it as tight as I could to just tight enough to hold it in place.


Good evening Mr. mickri,
My base is from one piece, it have wider base and 25mm thick post, and how you think I think too, to make at base hole and put in that hole a elastic rod( I do not know how you call it in English, it is a hollow stick which is split). Here is picture of post.
	

		
			
		

		
	



Today I try my Norman toolpost and I find what I need to do in next one. This one is 2mm thick and I will use it for 10mm thick tools, for this tools is fine.


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## martik777 (Jul 24, 2021)

I have a pin that goes through the post, washer and t-nut that prevents the post from turning (only needed for knurling) . My holder never slips on the post.


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## mickri (Jul 24, 2021)

My holders do not slip on the post.  What slipped was the post and base on the compound.  I cured this by making a small of steel about 1/2" long by 1/8" thick by 5/8" wide which is the width of the compound slot on my craftsman 12x36 lathe.   I welded this to the bottom of the base.  This prevents the post and base from slipping slipping on the compound.

Chinggis if I understand your description of the pin I call that a roll pin.  For a roll pin to work it needs to either be the width of the compound slot or fit into a hole in the T nut in the compound slot.  Is yours set up like Martik777's?


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## Chinggis (Jul 25, 2021)

mickri said:


> My holders do not slip on the post.  What slipped was the post and base on the compound.  I cured this by making a small of steel about 1/2" long by 1/8" thick by 5/8" wide which is the width of the compound slot on my craftsman 12x36 lathe.   I welded this to the bottom of the base.  This prevents the post and base from slipping slipping on the compound.
> 
> Chinggis if I understand your description of the pin I call that a roll pin.  For a roll pin to work it needs to either be the width of the compound slot or fit into a hole in the T nut in the compound slot.  Is yours set up like Martik777's?
> 
> View attachment 373328


Yes it is roll pin in my base but it is broken and left it there, Today I try my Norman QCTP and it is working fine. In next time when I will have more free time I will rebuild QCTP. Right now I need to finish in short time home renovation and some important jobs to do.


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