# Greed



## toolroom (Feb 12, 2016)

I am a retired machinist, who thought he was doing good, from job shop to job shop... even made it to middle management. I have never had a freakin' nickel to show for it.
I had posted before that I live in Oregon which is a state that people will screw anyone over for a nickel or a buck. There was a universal mill that had been sitting in a field in Ridgefield, Washington that was to go for scrap... it sat there for months in the rain and adverse weather.
When I inquired, "Oh, it's no good it's scrap...BUT... when I inquired in the office the owner said... $5000.00 bucks!
Members this is rusted solid junk?
I have tried in vain to try to find decent shop equipment here in Oregon, but the census is... "If it's wore out junk it's worth three times as much for the next [sucker].
I am so tired of this crap, AND being a memberof the Antique Motorcycle Club of America, [and I see the very same doo doo there] I really want to trash ALL my shop equipment and call it quits!
Guy's.... You've been there, am I acting irrationally? How can anyone expand their shop when dealing with such mental pigmy's?


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## dlane (Feb 12, 2016)

Unfortunately that's the way this country works nowadays, the rich get richer and greedier while the common folks struggle to just get along. A lot of our jobs left this country" thanks to wall street , make it cheep and overcharge"


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## mmcmdl (Feb 12, 2016)

Most companies have a " book value " , what it's worth on their books , and there is a " market value " , what can they sell it for online or thru auction etc after it is written off their books . If this mill has been sitting in a field it has 0 zero book value to them , and is only worth what an individual will pay . Offer them scrap value or a tad more or let them pay for someone to haul it away .


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## JimDawson (Feb 12, 2016)

You're just looking in the wrong places.  I normally buy good stuff at scrap (or below) prices.  I even bought the property 100K under market.  See below:

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/jims-shop.20780/


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## LucknowKen (Feb 12, 2016)

The richest equipment dealer in my area spends his spare time selling off-shore die cast cars, Ginsu knives and other jing jang to his "friends". Multi million $ inventory yet he is ferocious when it comes to making a finsky off of fixed income locals.
I try not to knock the little guys trying to make ends meet. Its the rich, money hungry sobs that are always way out of line on their quotes. Personally i would prefer good friends to gouging.


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## omni_dilletante (Feb 12, 2016)

What are you looking for?  How much are you hoping to pay?

I watch Craigslist here in Portland pretty closely and it seems like some pretty good deals surface from time to time.  They just don't last too long.


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## great white (Feb 12, 2016)

Same here. Everything is overpriced junk. Same on Kijiji, which is private sellers like craig's list in the states. 

Whole world's gone nuts with greed and spiraling prices on everything....


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## HMF (Feb 12, 2016)

Machinery is cheaper in the Northeast where many of the old factories were. That is a given. The cost of transporting machines is high, even given the cheaper cost of gas.
I notice that the cost of machines has risen, parts are out of sight.

There is one local dealer around here who will buy something from your widow for $100, and ask $1000 for it right away.
He will tell you it's ok because he has expenses. He is on 100 Yahoo lists and several sites, and he sits there and lurks.
(Although he claims to be an expert machinist, he never participates). When someone needs something, up he pops, offering it.
Never gives an asking price publicly - you have to contact him one on one to get the price (he's afraid of what people will say).
His prices are outrageous.


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## LucknowKen (Feb 12, 2016)

Whole world's gone nuts with greed and spiraling prices on everything....
What's nuts is that according to our state sponsored propaganda, (the CBC)
Over 7 billion of us are competing for roughly 15 percent of the worlds wealth.
Speaking of outrageous profit margins, here is a recent quote i received.
Check out the price of a South Bend 9 fiberglass belt guard.
I have removed the company name from the quote.


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## HMF (Feb 12, 2016)

What I have done in the past is, when I see parts for stuff I own reasonable, I buy them if I can afford to, whether I need them or not now.

I have a very old Baldor 510 carbide grinder that needs restoration. It didn't have the original water trays or cup. The tables are well worn.
I replaced the trays with Harbor Freight grinder trays (which fit well).

A guy on Ebay had some Baldor 510 tables and trays. He wanted $50 each. They didn't sell
I offered $125 for the 4 and got them for spares. I will replace the water trays and see which tables have less wear.

Did you try  Plaza Machinery for the SB9 parts?


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## LucknowKen (Feb 12, 2016)

Plaza Machinery: I will check it out right now.


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## savarin (Feb 12, 2016)

The creed of greed is the only major growth industry alive today.
It starts at the top from pollies and ceos featherbedding their nests to the detriment of everything else and works its way down the chain.
Why does a bed consisting of a few planks, mattress and springs cost twice the price of the cheapest lathe?
The price of an item does not reflect its value only "whats the most I can charge for this" 
Four doors down from me was a guy who had a rusty vehicle sitting on a mound of dirt in his front yard. This vehicle was a rust bucket with no protection and looked to be about circa 1920's.
He adamantly refused to sell it saying it will be worth more in a few years time.
12 years later it had disintegrated to a pile of rust and nothing else (North Queensland, think Florida weather)
I always give things I no longer want away or sell for only a small sum, maybe thats why I'm still poor.


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## ericc (Feb 12, 2016)

Hi toolroom.  That makes me feel really bad.  I thought Oregon was the place the California retirees went to escape the greed.  On second thought, I remember a neighbor who relocated to Oregon but tried to hang on to his house until receiving his desired price.  He ended up holding out for years and seriously damaging his retirement savings due to the two simultaneous mortgage payments.  He ended up selling at a fire sale price to a real chiseler.  It looks like Gladstone is a suburb of Portland.  Are things any better outside the big city?


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## mmcmdl (Feb 12, 2016)

This so called greed is just colatteral damage resulting from supply/demand issues and also the interweb . Used to be , if I needed a tool , I had 2 choices . MSC or the local distributer down the street . So , 38 years ago , if I needed a reamer that day , and my friend the distributer did not have it , I could call MSC and have it at my door at 7am next day . I payed a premium for the tool as it was a better value that allowed me to make a buck . I don't and can't see where the greed case comes to the ceos and company chiefs . If I have to drive a car to work , I can purchase a $100 beater , push it 3 days a week , and recharge the battery , then fight the emission requirements all along . I could also buy a $25.000 mid level coupe and be a somewhat normal person with reasonable expensives going to upkeep and maintenance . On the other hand , I could purchase a Ferrari for whatever $$$ , look like a HMFIC and pay someone to wash it daily ............just to get to work . As much as I hate to see what is going on everywhere , I guess it's the way it is , and I'm dam tired of trying to fight it . My mortgage on a house was $700 back starting out . I pay more than that to a Cable company to watch ****ty re=runs that are 50% show/50% commercials and a phone that gets robo-dialed every 5 minutes . I myself cannot find the value in the above , but as I have 3 children and a wife , whatcha gonna do ? You have to pay to play I suppose . True story . We lost a main gearbox on a line that produced $100,000 an hour . After calling around worldwide and getting quotes of 60K with approx. delivery dates of 6 months , and one saying it would be at BWI the next day for  80K , well guess where I was in the am .  Could I call that vendor greedy

  I wonder where this will end and it scares me to think about it . JMO .

I personally would love to find an individual or company willing to set 66 or 67 SS Chevelles out in a field to rust away ( as I did at a time) . Beauty and value are in the eyes of the beholder .


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## HMF (Feb 12, 2016)

Here is an example:

A seller has a thrust washer on Ebay for a SB lathe. He's asking $55 for the washer. Add to that $5 shipping. ($60) It really costs about $2 to ship. The priority box or bag is free at the post office, so he's making money on shipping. $60 for a WASHER.

So, being a cheapskate, and since my lathe has been in pieces at least 5 years, I only offer $40. That's $45 with shipping.
He counters with $50, and sends me a message, he isn't anxious to sell, he isn't making any more, not enough SB owners, etc.
I offer $45 (that's $50 with shipping). He counters with $48, tells me he is going to the post office anyway so he will take $48.

All that for a few bucks. Meanwhile the listing expires, he has to renew (costs him money).
I read on the Yahoo group that someone had good success with these washers, which was why I wanted one, in case I ever get the lathe back together.
But to me $60 seems a lot for one washer.


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## mmcmdl (Feb 12, 2016)

Wholeheartinly agree Nels . I restore and re=sell OLD Cub and International Cadets . I spend countless hours on the web , looking for parts , original paints , tires , OEM seats and mufflers . I sit them out back on the road and get questions such as ..... why should I pay you $500 for this 25 year old tractor when I can get a new one from HD or Lowes for $1200 ?? I tell them to lift the ass end of my tractor into your pickup and I'll  give it to you for free . They get the point . I don't even cover my beer expenses on most sales .................but I keep doing it !


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## omni_dilletante (Feb 12, 2016)

A few years ago I came across a set of books called, "Echoes From The Oil Country".  They were reprints of a column written by W. Osborrne for American Machinist Magazine between 1900-1903.  

Osborne owned a machine shop in Pennsylvania during the first oil boom.  At that time cast iron and steam power were the technologies that drove everything.

In his columns he complains about:

Cannot find qualified machinists.
Customers only want the cheapest possible fix
Margins are tight and small mistakes by employees wipe out profits
Occasionally a customer will opt for a quality solution and be shocked at how well it works
Every job is a rush job.

Basically, nothing has changed.  I don't think things were ever different.  I don't think things will ever be different.

The number of reasonable and trustworthy people are always outnumbered by folks who are neither.


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## mmcmdl (Feb 12, 2016)

" I will willingly spend my hard earned money as I want to bring me happiness , relaxation , self-gratification , and the need to be self sufficient  , regardless of profit or such loss " . The values you cannot survive without . At the end of the day when someone asks what you did today , We as machinists can say " I made this " . 99 % of our population will answer " I pushed or shoveled papers thru the cubicle " I bid everyone a good safe night .


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## GK1918 (Feb 13, 2016)

I hear ya loud & clear.  I too live in a tire kicker state.  My case is a soft spot for a 33 or 34 Ford.  No way in hell at my age now.
Should have bought a few when they were 50 bucks in a used car lot.  So here is a $4500 34 4 door original paint very low
miles but leaking roof barn damage since WW 2.  I runs perfectly silently V8....... not me, my sons bought it.  
I'm trying to say these do not go for scrap OR scrap price.   Thoughts of reason;  yes one could be bought maybe 5 grand 
roadworthy, but these are always 3,000 miles away thats big shipping money, this was only 5 miles down the road..
My logic says  a possible $3000 shipping charge - put into this car saved all that aggravation.  (my boys do restorations)
so far blasted the frame POR painted  running gear done all in January.  I'm just comparing this story to a mill, If I didn't
jump on something mostly dead junk  'that I restored' I'd have nothing..  My 1914 power hack saw was in a junk pile for years
now a treasure I always use....  just ramblin again


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## stupoty (Feb 13, 2016)

mmcmdl said:


> Most companies have a " book value " , what it's worth on their books , and there is a " market value " , what can they sell it for online or thru auction etc after it is written off their books . If this mill has been sitting in a field it has 0 zero book value to them , and is only worth what an individual will pay . Offer them scrap value or a tad more or let them pay for someone to haul it away .



Yeah thats a good point start sending "metal waste disposal service" flyers to them, they may pay you to pick it up 

We can only hope.

Took me ages finding my small rf25 bench mill, I ended up getting a 9x20 at the same time as the combined price seemed to be putting people off bidding.  I kept getting outbid on others that looked like they were 70% rust and didn't understand.

Stuart


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## Billh50 (Feb 13, 2016)

The things I have bought from auctions took me a while to get. Mainly because of people bidding that either had no idea what they were going for new or got into a bidding frenzy. I have seen stuff at auctions go for almost twice what they go for new. The items I have bought at tag sales and off places like craigslist, I found buy checking there every morning and jumping on the ones I wanted right away.
Just remember 2 things when looking. 1) try to know what something is really worth.  2) Know your limit for spending.


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## toolroom (Feb 13, 2016)

Well, I came off kinda strong with my greed post. I am really discouraged...because... There are so many of you in here that locate some really nice and well made machinery. Even some of the newer fellows seem to "happen" upon some really nice finds, especially for a great price!
I have tried to upgrade my small shop but it appears, that ain't gonna happen soon. Just an old man ranting here an tripping over my bottom lip, when I see beautiful vintage machinery being bought or traded for such reasonable prices.
AND, Nels... I am with you there on the washer. In the AMCA it seems if someone has a crushed headlight bucket, and finds another one, he sells the crushed one for the same price he paid for the good one!
Who knows, maybe someday I'll stumble across a great deal! HOWEVER... I really do need to apologize to y'all, as I didn't mean for this to be a gripe session. I see some of you gents come across fantastic tooling, and pricing...As a matter of fact one of the best threads in  Hobby Machinist is the tool junkies. I just love seeing men out there finding great deals. Period!
Show me more!
toolroom


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## Billh50 (Feb 13, 2016)

toolroom,

Some just happen to be in the right place at the right time more than others. Myself I seem to have the problem that I only run into deals when I don't have the money to buy em. Or I find out about a good deal too late to get there first. I just don't have the luck some others do.


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