# Polishing a turd or fettling a HF X-Y vise



## mattthemuppet2

hmm, title might be a bit strong, but I figured I'd head off criticism of my choice before it started 

Long story short is that I want to do some light milling on my WT 15in drill press until I know where I'll be in 6mths (or even what country) and have the funds to buy a proper mill. Yes, I know milling in a drill press is a bad idea and I've taken on board all the advice and cautions to that end, as well as being the lucky recipient of a thread on collet chuck from George Wilson (thanks George!). I also needed an X-Y vise of some sort and with a 25% off coupon, I could just about afford a 6in X-Y vise from Harbor Freight (http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-cross-slide-vise-32997.html)




I bought it knowing that I was basically buying a kit of castings and screws, so I expected to spend a fair bit of time removing paint from where it wasn't supposed to be and filing/ sanding down machining marks. I was pleasantly surprised when it turned up, pretty solid and moved relatively smoothly. That was the extent of my playing with it though as I immediately stripped it down  I've since spent a bunch of time scraping off paint and smoothing down the sliding surfaces, so it now slides around much more smoothly and easily (pics of the parts later).

One thing that I wasn't that impressed with (although they were in line with the price) were the end plates for the lead screws which were plain stamped steel plates. The end of the lead screw rotated on and in the plate with the captive nut/ dial rubbing on the other side. Also, neither lead screw was supported at the other end. The upper one isn't long enough to be supported, but the lower one runs within the casting. So I raided my machinist buddy's bearing stash at work (he scavenges them from any broken down equipment that comes through the repair shop) and came up with 2 bearings that fit the handle end of the leadscrews and one that would fit within the casting to capture the other end of the lower screw. I scrounged some brass to make thrust bearings to sit under the captive nuts.

I thought I'd tackle the upper screw end plate first as it was a bit more complicated. I'm using some 1/2in thick alu plate that I scrounged out of a metal recycling bin.

With original end plate



Rough cut on my poor complaining band saw



Faced and finished on most of the sides (next one I'll do the facing after the holes!). I did the facing with a round nose HSS bit that my uncle in law gave me - it had sat unused in his tool box since the Vietnam war!



Chucked up in my 4 jaw, boring out the bearing pocket. It's recessed by 0.5mm at the back to provide clearance for the inner race.



Done and faced flat 



Other side done with recessed holes for the new bolts and the brass "thrust" washer I need to make.



Close up



I still need to make the washers out of some flat plate, tap new threads for the larger bolts, make the lower bearing plate (similar to this one, but rectangular) and grind down the end of the lower screw to fit the outboard bearing. Hopefully by the end of this week as I _really _want to start using this vise, even just for drilling!

more to come


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## Bill Gruby

They only have one (1) left. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/You-Cant-Po...054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ca71a2c16

 "Billy G" :rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## mattthemuppet2

hey, it's my turd so I'll polish it as much as I like


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## AlanR

That's made a *LOT* better than its HF predecessor, that one didn't even have dovetail ways.


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## John Hasler

Thanks! I have that same exact turd (er, "vise").   Got it for $10 at a farm auction.   Fixing it up is on my list as it is what I will have to make do with until I can scrounge some sort of table for the Avey.


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## mattthemuppet2

AlanR said:


> That's made a *LOT* better than its HF predecessor, that one didn't even have dovetail ways.



I think it's fairly well made, especially for the price, and it has pretty good reviews too. One of the dovetails looks like it was machined in 2 passes (2 different heights) and one of the passes was pretty ****ty, but it filed down to one continuous surface. As a plus, there's plenty of small pockets to hold oil 



John Hasler said:


> Thanks! I have that same exact turd (er, "vise"). Got it for $10 at a farm auction. Fixing it up is on my list as it is what I will have to make do with until I can scrounge some sort of table for the Avey.



can't argue with that price! You probably don't need to go as far as I did (always have solutions in search of problems ), although brass/ bronze washers either side of the end plates would make it a lot smoother for a fraction of the effort. Lapping the gibs on a piece of glass and hunting down all the over spray would be a good idea too. At the end of the day, you'll still have a nice handy drill press vise, even if you don't use if for milling - that's my philosophy.


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## Bill Gruby

I would have done my Drill Press that way but I already had a straight X-Y table. I just add a rotary table or vise when needed. A unit like that will come in handy, especially once upgraded. Also, I agree. a Drill Press will work as a Mill in light work.

 "Billy G"


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## mattthemuppet2

thanks Bill  I spent some time looking around for a used proper X-Y table but there's very little used tooling for sale around here and the $150+ for a new one was waaaay beyond my budget. Just drilling those holes for the bolts was a pain and would have been a breeze with this vise up and running.

One question (to all) - the vise slots on the drill table don't match the width of the vise base with the vise handles in front and to the left of me. I can turn the vise around and make some kind of step clamps to use the slots on the table and the side of the vise, but then I'll have the jaw screw facing the column. I don't have a suitably large lump of metal to bolt the vise to and then bolt to the table and I'd really rather not have to drill holes in the table to mount the vise.

Any ideas?


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## Bill Gruby

Make what is known as an engineering plate. Put holes to match the table and holes to match the vise. Bolt it to the vise first the then the  assembly to the table. It need not be fancy.

 "Billy G"


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## mattthemuppet2

hmm, good idea. I might have to make it out of wood first until I can scrounge some metal plate of some description, although thankfully I do have a lot of wood in the garage. I'll see if I can find a flat piece of hardwood somewhere. I'm still kicking myself for not scrounging a large piece (12in by 12in?) of 3/8" aluminium that I saw in the metal recycling bin at work, thought I wouldn't have a use for it (slap). Never again 

Also have to figure out a way of using the dial indicator (1in, 0.001") I have to get the vise properly perpendicular to the spindle. At least I have plenty of steel rods of different sizes I could use to cobble something together.


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## John Hasler

mattthemuppet said:


> hmm, good idea. I might have to make it out of wood first until I can scrounge some metal plate of some description, although thankfully I do have a lot of wood in the garage. I'll see if I can find a flat piece of hardwood somewhere. I'm still kicking myself for not scrounging a large piece (12in by 12in?) of 3/8" aluminium that I saw in the metal recycling bin at work, thought I wouldn't have a use for it (slap). Never again
> 
> Also have to figure out a way of using the dial indicator (1in, 0.001") I have to get the vise properly perpendicular to the spindle. At least I have plenty of steel rods of different sizes I could use to cobble something together.



I had a similar problem: the table on my drill press is so large that it interferes with the lower of the vise slide handles.  I just blocked it up with a couple of chunks of a tractor drawbar.  A plate would be better but you got what you've got.

Now that it's above zero in the shop again I may soon have something to post about the Avey project (if I can find time between bouts of snow plowing).


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## mattthemuppet2

I'll figure something out  Good to hear you're getting back to your Avey, looking forward to seeing your progress. It's warmed up a load here too, so instead of riding to work in the snow, I got to ride to work on ice. Yay!


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## Great white hunter

I had one of those vises. I put it in the trash the same day it came in the mail. I was so ****** when I got it. Cheap junk. It even had a plastic lead screw nut. I have never seen such A thing. How can they get away with making such crap.


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## mattthemuppet2

Fair enough, I'm sure quality varies on this type of vise but I've been  moderately impressed with this one, even out of the box. As I said, I bought it viewing it as a kit and it's excellent value from that perspective


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## Great white hunter

mattthemuppet said:


> Fair enough, I'm sure quality varies on this type of vise but I've been  moderately impressed with this one, even out of the box. As I said, I bought it viewing it as a kit and it's excellent value from that perspective



You must have got a good one. The one I got was garbage. Did yours have a plastic lead screw nut?


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## mattthemuppet2

I guess so, although the reviews on HF are largely positive. No plastic leadscrew nut - the leadscrew is captured against the end plate by a steel cylinder "dial" that has a set screw in it. The lower axis dial was so far from the plate that it took a few turns to start moving the vise, but that's a simple adjustment for anyone who'd want to buy this. It's a good enough set up to re-use it, but if it doesn't work well enough in use I'll just thread the handle end of the leadscrew and add a nut+nyloc lock nut.

Small update - tried making the brass thrust washers last night. All went well until I went to drill out the centers and realised that there wasn't enough space between the jaws behind the washers to do so. Being lazy and, it turns out later, having a high fever, I proceeded to do it in the drill press. One of the original holes (to hold it to an arbor for turning down the OD) must have been slightly off center, so I ended up with 1/2in holes about 1/16 off center. Buggeration. I was too knackered to want to do anything more, so when I feel better I'll chuck the washers with the inside jaws and bore the center hole back to center. There's still enough material there for the dial to spin on.


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## mattthemuppet2

finished the top axis, pending ordering some proper bolts.

random mystery gold metal (sadly not gold), probably brass



arbored up



screw up averted. Both the brass washer and dial where they'll be touching were flat sanded up to 2000 grit then Mothers Mag polished. You can see the difference to the other ends (untouched for the dial, 220 grit for the washer)



bearing installed, nice slip fit



brass washer lightly superglued in place



topslide. The rod that captures the moving vise half was sanded up to 2000grit and polished, plus the bolt that captures the vise screw was replaced with a wider one to reduce slop (there was a 1/4 turn before the vise started opening from being closed). Vise half slides very nicely



I was going to show the leadscrew and plate separately, but I got caught up in putting it all together  Gib nuts were rounded off on the gib end and the locking bolts were replaced with socket head bolts. Gibs were flat lapped and polished. Liberal doses of 3in1 applied to the sliding and screw surfaces



With the dial snugged up tight to the brass washer there's very limited backlash (1/2 to 1 mystery graduation) and the slide moves very smoothly with no discernable movement off axis. There's detectable binding when the leadscrew is being turned clockwise (pressure on the brass washer) but it's still smoother than original. Might have to replace that with a proper thrust bearing at some point. Turning the handle counter clockwise (pressure on the bearing) is very smooth. I'll probably have to play with how tight the gibs are once I start using it but as it is I'm very pleased.

I think I'll use a smaller bearing on the bottom axis as the upper leadscrew plate limits travel some what (I may face off some material to reduce interference). Fingers crossed I'll have time to start that this weekend.


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## Great white hunter

You did a nice job. Looks good.


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## mattthemuppet2

Thanks! It'll never be a palmgren or troyke (?) But it'll do for the time being. Made a good start on the other plate, going back out there when the kids go to sleep


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## ericc

I acquired one of these cheap X-Y vises (the 4" size, I think) along with a drill press purchase.  I thought I would give it a try for some milling on aluminum for cutting sidewinder keys.  A clamp on spindle was used for spinning a 1/8" carbide endmill.  It cut just fine, and had plenty of rigidity, but the XY vise had just too much slop.  After ruining two key blanks, I disassembled it to try to see what was wrong.

The problem is that if the gib screws were loose, the slide wobbled too much along with the sliding.  If they were too tight, the slide would jam.  The problem with any slop is that it wasn't xy motion, and the rotation would cause the cutter to dig too deep into the key blank.  Thus, the cuts were off.

The dovetails were a little rough, but I did not see anything obviously wrong.  I tried buying some prussian blue from the local auto parts store and rubbing it on the sliding surfaces.  It kind of smeared all over, and I couldn't tell what to look for.  The tube said that some very obvious shiny spots would appear, but I didn't see anything obvious.  I cinched up the gib screws until the slide started binding, but did not see anything.  Has anybody succesfully fixed one of these?  thanks, Eric


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## mattthemuppet2

I don't know if this will help you or not Eric, but I spent quite a few hours filing down the high spots on the various sliding surfaces as well as lapping and polishing the steel gibs and it slides very nicely now, to the point where I can tighten the gibs to almost binding and then a tiny turn will lock it up. The idea was to knock off any high spots and increase the mating surface area to reduce any unwanted movement. No idea how it'll all work in practice yet as I hit a snag last night assembling the last lead screw, but hopefully I'll know soon enough.


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## ericc

Hi Matt.  Thanks for the reply.  How did you determine the high spots?  I was not having too much luck with that oily prussian blue paste that I bought at the auto parts store.  It said that it was non-drying, and that seemed to be the problem.  I just got a tube of Dykem scraping blue to see if that would work better.


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## mattthemuppet2

nothing as professional as spotting  I used a big flat file and took off the ridges so it looked the same all over and a 60deg triangular file for the dovetails. I didn't take the surfaces down to flat, I left the valleys there to hold oil and provide a visual reference. I know, I know, that'll have any self-respecting machinist curling their toes, but I don't have the measuring tools to do any better and it seems to have worked out okay. The gibs I used a big sanding block and went from 320 to 2000 grit sanding them flat on the block in a figure of eight motion, then I polished them with Mothers. That and cleaning out the paint overspray alone made a big difference.

I finally put it together last night after hitting a snag the night before ("poor snag, was it hurt?" asked my wife ). I'll post up some pics in a bit after I've set up an experiment.


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## mattthemuppet2

alright, bottom axis time. Same material as before, but I used a smaller OD bearing (from my front mtb hub of all things) so that the end plate would clear the sliding bit above it (the top axis doesn't ).










The bearing had a larger ID than the other one, so I had to make a little top hat spacer/ bushing to fit the lead screw



And, largely as a placebo (I don't think it actually does anything), I added a small bearing to support the other end of the lead screw. I ground a small raised pad on the end and drilled/ tapped a hole in the middle. Well, sort of in the middle, as I'm completely useless at drilling precise holes despite using a punch, then a center drill etc. Anyway, I deliberately used a bolt with a narrower diameter than the ID of the bearing just in case this happened, so it still rotates nicely



Bottom axis



Top axis



Finished!



Just have to figure out a way of attaching it to the drill press table. I might put it on a slant until I can scrounge some plate to make an engineering plate as suggested above. Now I need to make an appropriate bushing for the collet chuck George gave me


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## oldntired

Thanks for posting this... I have one I need to polish. Mine is mounted to the drill press table with clamping step blocks from my mini mill collection. That part works great.


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## mattthemuppet2

glad I could help and thanks for the tip on using clamping blocks, I'll have to see if that'll work.


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## mattthemuppet2

Almost finished making an engineering plate. As the slots on the table were narrower than the inside of the vise casting I thought I'd try an internal plate, which Rob in the machine shop graciously helped me make in exchange for beer and lots of good coffee. The idea was somewhat trivial, but it took a lot of set up to square, drill, tap and angle the plate then mill and drill the holes for the bolts in the casting hold down slots. He also helped me mill the middle casting a smidge so that the new end plate cleared the casting.

The plate sits about 1mm inside the casting, so hopefully won't affect the flatness of the base.



A lot of head scratching and fiddling ended up with the vise being set way over to one side of the drill press table so that the vise jaws are centered under the chuck when the top slide is centered on the vise. That means 2 bolts through the engineering plate and 2 bolts clamping the side of the casting using some alu blocks as step blocks. All that head scratching meant I only had time to drill and tap two holes 




have to prepare for a couple of job interviews this week, so this'll probably get done at the weekend.


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## mattthemuppet2

it's now installed on the drill press, although I still need to do some fiddling and fettling. I'm going to try and "tram" the vise in with my dial indicator and shim stock, so it's as perpendicular to the spindle as possible. Might also get some proper thrust bearings, but we'll see.




up its skirt, so to speak




the extra long bolts at the back are there to hold a bodged up bracket which will hold a cut up baking tray chip pan. Once that's sorted, I'll cut the bolts down. Getting there, but I ran out of puff for a little bit and spent some time on the collet instead.


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## John Hasler

Looks good.  I got mine polished following your instructions: it slides real nice with no detectable side play.  I made bronze bearings for it.  Now I just need to scare up a 7/16-UNF die and some Bellville washers so that I can replace the crappy setscrew collars with nuts and preload the bearings.

Are you going to add dials?


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## chuckorlando

Nice work man


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## mattthemuppet2

Thanks chuck!

John, that's great news, glad it helped. Something I'm going to do with the collars is to drill and tap for a set screw opposite the existing one so that it sits flat instead of cocked, which should help a lot. I shouldn't worry too much about preload, as you can get next to no backlash with the collars. As for dials, I'm going to use a couple of those cheap "carbon fiber" 6" calipers. I got one already for the quill and it's surprisingly not crap.


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## John Hasler

mattthemuppet said:


> Thanks chuck!
> 
> John, that's great news, glad it helped. Something I'm going to do with the collars is to drill and tap for a set screw opposite the existing one so that it sits flat instead of cocked, which should help a lot.



I put a shim made of aluminum flashing in opposite the screw.  It helps, but there is still an irritating variation in drag with angular position.



> I shouldn't worry too much about preload, as you can get next to no backlash with the collars.



I'm just being a bit obsessive about "doing it right".



> As for dials, I'm going to use a couple of those cheap "carbon fiber" 6" calipers. I got one already for the quill and it's surprisingly not crap.



Good idea, but still too pricey for me.


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## Old Iron

Nice job on the X/Y table! I have one of those but mine is over 20 years old and I had been kicking it around for most of that time.

I just took it apart cleaned,painted,oiled change the jibs to brass and put it back together. But then all I use mine for is a drill press vise.

If you change the jibs to brass it will improve 100%.

Paul


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## mattthemuppet2

John Hasler said:


> I put a shim made of aluminum flashing in opposite the screw.  It helps, but there is still an irritating variation in drag with angular position.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just being a bit obsessive about "doing it right".
> 
> 
> 
> Good idea, but still too pricey for me.



I hear you there, I'll let you know if adding a couple of set screws makes any difference. The calipers are $7 each, if that helps, cheap and soft enough that I don't feel sad about cutting them up.




Old Iron said:


> Nice job on the X/Y table! I have one of those but mine is over 20 years old and I had been kicking it around for most of that time.





Old Iron said:


> I just took it apart cleaned,painted,oiled change the jibs to brass and put it back together. But then all I use mine for is a drill press vise.
> 
> If you change the jibs to brass it will improve 100%.
> 
> Paul




thanks Paul! Good tip on the brass gibs, I've heard that makes a huge difference. I have a couple of long pieces of brass hex rod that might be wide enough, so I'll look into that for my first "milling" job. I lost a bit of gumption over it as I have to fiddle with the lower lead screw nut to get the lead screw straight or it binds, so I spent the weekend working on the collets instead


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## chips&more

chuckorlando said:


> Nice work man





I’ll echo that!!!


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## John Hasler

mattthemuppet said:


> The calipers are $7 each, if that helps, cheap and soft enough that I don't feel sad about cutting them up.



$7 is cheap enough to be interesting.  Where did you find them for that?  When I looked around the best I saw was $17.


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## mattthemuppet2

chips&more said:


> I’ll echo that!!!



thanks chips  Building back up my mojo to finish this off by working on the lathe..



John Hasler said:


> $7 is cheap enough to be interesting. Where did you find them for that? When I looked around the best I saw was $17.



here you go:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121298616818?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

they're basically the same as the digital tire depth gauges I used on the lathe, just with a longer read strip. It zeroes every time, which is better than another "proper" caliper I have, and remembers it's position when it comes back on, plus the plastic "jaws" will be way easier to cut and drill than the hardened jaws on steel calipers (main reason, other than cheapness, that I got it!). I can't remember the posting time, I usually fire and forget my China orders, then get a pleasant surprise on the dinner table every so often. I wouldn't attempt to use these for any kind of even semi-accurate measuring as the jaws aren't exactly flat or smooth or stiff  Just ordered a couple more for the vise.


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## frbutts

I reciently bought a 4" one on these for a wood working project (dominio's with walnut pips) I didn't expect much for the price but it worked well. I also spent a few hours scraping paint filing and fitting. i wouldn't feel comfortable milling except light cuts in aluminium. for any thing heavyer i would spend the $100. or more for an american tool.


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## mattthemuppet2

you're right, this is just for light cuts in alu or plastic and even that is only until I'm in the position to get a proper mill (even an X3 would be awesome) after which this would still be really useful just for accurate positioning of drill holes. The no. of times I could have used this while I was working on this was hilarious.

Collets made and vise is mounted. Now I just need to make sure the top surface is perpendicular to the spindle and finish attaching the chip pan and I'll be done (bar a few other fiddles'n'fettles).


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## John Hasler

mattthemuppet said:


> thanks chips  Building back up my mojo to finish this off by working on the lathe..
> 
> 
> 
> here you go:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/121298616818?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> they're basically the same as the digital tire depth gauges I used on the lathe, just with a longer read strip. It zeroes every time, which is better than another "proper" caliper I have, and remembers it's position when it comes back on, plus the plastic "jaws" will be way easier to cut and drill than the hardened jaws on steel calipers (main reason, other than cheapness, that I got it!). I can't remember the posting time, I usually fire and forget my China orders, then get a pleasant surprise on the dinner table every so often. I wouldn't attempt to use these for any kind of even semi-accurate measuring as the jaws aren't exactly flat or smooth or stiff  Just ordered a couple more for the vise.



Thank you.  After I posted I managed to find some on Ebay for $7 incl shipping and ordered three (after a Chinese fire drill with PayPal and Ebay).


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## mattthemuppet2

You're welcome  couldn't wait for setting things up properly and did a small test cut - worked a treat! I'm so excited! Pictures tomorrow, have to sleep now..


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## mattthemuppet2

got a little bit more done - "trammed" the vise so that it's 2-3 thou out front to back and 1-2 thou out side to side. Given the amount of effort that it'd take to remove that to 1 thou or less (which would probably be wasted when I raise or lower the table ) and the work I'm going to do, that's just fine by me

I unscrewed the base off my mag base indicator stand and stuck the whole lot in my chuck 



Macbook pro battery shim



Collet chuck and collets are now done, so I'm pretty much good to go. I've a few more tweaks to do (chip tray, thrust bearings, bronze gibs + extra gib screws, couple of mods to take out the slack in the moveable jaw), but it's pretty much there. I'll keep plugging away at it in the meantime..


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## mattthemuppet2

it's been slow going (no kidding!) as my parents were here for a few weeks and I've been busy with job interviews, but I managed to get a few more things done:

- now has a removeable chip tray (ex-alu baking pan)
- thrust bearings turned up from China ($2 each) and work amazingly. They've reduced the rotating friction from noticeable to nothing and have made all the difference
- added a couple of brass screws to the moveable jaw to take up some of the slack between the jaw and the top slide. Unfortunately, now I've done that I now know that the guide and the top slide aren't perfectly parallel, so we'll see what we can do about that.




- fixed the slop between the screw and the moveable jaw. Adding a larger retaining screw helped a bit, but there was still ~1/2 a turn before the jaw would change direction and all the closing force was acting on the retaining screw, not the jaw. So I turned down a piece of scrap brass (I think, dusty shavings not curly chips) and pressed it in to the jaw. First time using my new telescoping bore gauges and micrometers too! Works a treat, no slop at all now.








Extra gib screws, brass gibs (perhaps) and "DROs" coming up


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## Rapscallion

Nice to see how this has progressed. Looks like you end up with something superior to what you bought. Well done. :goodjob2:


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## Andre

Nice job on the vise rebuild. As I say, Chinese cast iron tools are a parts kit that needs to be built. Or re machined )
How do you plan to mill on your drill press? Please tell me your using collets.


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## mattthemuppet2

Rapscallion said:


> Nice to see how this has progressed. Looks like you end up with something superior to what you bought. Well done. :goodjob2:



thanks! I just wish it had progressed a little quicker 



Andre said:


> Nice job on the vise rebuild. As I say, Chinese cast iron tools are a parts kit that needs to be built. Or re machined )
> How do you plan to mill on your drill press? Please tell me your using collets.



My thoughts entirely, although it would have been perfectly serviceable as a drill press vise out of the box if you just wanted it for drilling a few holes. 

Thanks to the generosity of George Wilson on here I have a screw on collet chuck and I made some extra collets so it can now hold 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2in shank tools:


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## Charley Davidson

This is a very nice project & thread worthy of being an article in one of the machinist magazines and even a project of the month on this forum.

I found one at the scrap yard a few days ago @ .25 per pound it cost me $5.00 it was in fair looking shape missing both cranks for the X & Y and the movable jaw was rusted/bound up on the shaft, I disassembled it & soaked it in Evaporust, reassembled it and it looks like new. I bought it to resale but by the time I make or find the cranks I think that will be fruitless so I may copy your project and hang on to it at least for now.  Mine was identical to yours except in color, it has 100 on one of the castings.

Again this is an excellent project for this forum.


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## mattthemuppet2

thank you Charley, that's very kind, but anything I've done on this pales in comparison to some of the truly amazing work I've seen on here. It's been a great learning experience though and if it's of use to anyone else, that's a big bonus! I've got a bunch of work to do on my car and commuter bike this weekend, so this will probably have to wait until next week.


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## Mark_f

you did a nice job on that vice. I got one just about like it , I bought off a guy for $5 selling scrap metal. It really looked bad ,but after cleaning it up and reworking all the parts it works really smooth and the gibs and dove tails fit up very tight with only a couple thousandths give. more than adequate for anything I will use it for. I gave mine a new paint job with grey hammered finish and it looks great (my wife doesn't even know what it is and she thinks it is real pretty). now the bad part. THOSE DIALS. there is slop, you cant read them and those end plates!. I like what you did and I was thinking of doing the same thing ,but I am making the plates from cold roll steel. I found three piece thrust ball bearings at McMaster Car really cheap, but didn't know how I was going to get a good fit on the lead screw. I like the little top hat thingy you made. That idea will solve my problem. I ordered some more thrust bearings with a little bigger ID to fit the top hat hickey. The screws work really well in both directions now and the backlash is almost nothing since I can preload the bearings. The only backlash is in the  screw and nut and I am working on a design for an adjustable nut to replace it ( just have to find a cheaper way. the blanks are too expensive for this project)b but amazingly the cast iron nuts in this vise are pretty tight. I have run lathes with more backlash. So with the $5 I paid for the vise and $30.00 worth of new hardware, I have a high quality X Y axis vise. Oh , and the thrust bearings are less than a 1/4 inch thickness for all three pieces so the plates don't have to be exceptionally thick. My only improvement left is to make new dials a little bigger and easier to read. I would take some pics but I haven't figured out how to get them on here yet.

I think you did a great job on it

Mark F.


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## mattthemuppet2

thanks Mark, much appreciated and glad I could provide some inspiration. I'd be really interested to see what you came up with, especially those thrust bearings which are 2/3 the thickness of the ones I bought. I agree about the dials, can't see any point to them and I don't even know what the graduations represent. I'm just going to bolt on a couple of cheap plastic 6in digital calipers ($7 each!) and use those instead. Gets rid of any backlash issue (I still have some even on my set up), zeroable and I can use whatever units are appropriate at the time. Haven't figured out how to attach them yet, but it should be too hard.


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## Projex

Great "save" of a typical POS cheap tool!  I bought a large drill press years ago that came with two Dayton vises; one is an XY unit.  Now I'm going to have to "tune them up" with some of your ideas.  Loving this forum and all the shared experience!


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## Marco Bernardini

Ok, who will be the first to add power feeds and DROs to one of these vises?


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## mattthemuppet2

Projex said:


> Great "save" of a typical POS cheap tool!  I bought a large drill press years ago that came with two Dayton vises; one is an XY unit.  Now I'm going to have to "tune them up" with some of your ideas.  Loving this forum and all the shared experience!



well, I prefer "casting kit" to POS cheap tool, but it's 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other  Glad I could offer some inspiration - I just wish I had the time to properly get cracking and finish this project.



Marco Bernardini said:


> Ok, who will be the first to add power feeds and DROs to one of these vises?



"DROs" are on the cards, at least in my standard cheap ass way, but need a couple of things doing first before they go on. Now a power feed, that's an interesting idea. Should be pretty trivial to do too as there's plenty of length left on the crank mounting stud. All you'd have to do is extend the crank handle flats and retaining nut threads towards the vise, put a larger nut on the thread and then lock it down with the original retaining nut. Then use a cordless drill with a socket that fits the larger nut. Simple.

Then again, 6in isn't a whole lot of distance to crank a handle


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## Marco Bernardini

mattthemuppet said:


> Then again, 6in isn't a whole lot of distance to crank a handle



Just 6" for a vise, but a big leap toward CNC  :biggrin:


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## mattthemuppet2

I have difficulty working out diameters, I don't think CNC is on the cards any time soon 

Got another bit done last night. The guide rod for the vise jaw was ~0.004in high at the fixed jaw end, so I could get the moveable jaw equally tight at either extreme. So I took the top half of the vise to pieces and used my dremel to carefully grind down the guide hole for the fixed end, take a little bit off one end of the bore in the jaw (so that it would sit flat) and a teeny bit off the crank end to get rid of any slack in the moveable jaw. I then drilled and tapped a hole for a set screw at the fixed end to push the guide rod down.




needed a little bit of paper to take up the slack at the crank end



snugged up the adjustment screws a touch on the moveable jaw and now it is equally tight at both ends of the travel, with no discernible wiggle or gap between the vise and the jaw. I was pleased as punch!

here's the thrust bearing on one of the axis



Next up, extra gib screws and brass gibs


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## mattthemuppet2

made my first chips last night! Started on the new brass gibs. Not sure if they'll make any difference, but it'll be a good way to get used to "milling" on my drill press and a big change from the Accupath monster I've used at work.

I used my weedy benchtop bandsaw to cut the strips from a piece of brass (I think) scrap. As you can see, the strips bowed out noticeably, as predicted by someone other than me



carefully bent them straight in the vise checking them against a parallel (the only certifiably flat thing I have)



cleaning up the end, which will be slotted for a gib retaining screw (hole to be tapped into the end of the cross slide). That'll extend the gib a little bit for more support too.



then the back side of the gibs need to be milled to the correct thickness and milled at an angle to the correct height. I'm aiming for a loose slip fit in between the vise halves to make them as thick as possible.


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## mattthemuppet2

bit more work on the gib, don't look if scary bubba-style ghetto set ups worry you 







the set up to do the ends was a little less hairy as I could turn the work around and put the clamps under the moveable jaw. Still not great, but it's not a bearing surface, thankfully.


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## mattthemuppet2

*small update - first gib finished*

this has taken a while a) because it was a b!tch to do and b) we're getting ready for our move, but I've finally finished one of the gibs




gib screw holes were done with a ball end mill and the gib mounted in a slotted piece of alu plate in the vise at the right angle



face was sanded 320-400-800-2000 (didn't have any sheets big enough between 800 and 2000), then polished with mother's mag polish



the other one is almost finished, but I need to turn the center piece on the vise around to drill the extra screw holes and mark the gib screw locations. Getting there!


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## Marco Bernardini

*Re: small update - first gib finished*



mattthemuppet said:


> face was sanded 320-400-800-2000 (didn't have any sheets big enough between 800 and 2000), then polished with mother's mag polish



Be careful: now someone can mistake it for solid gold :lmao:


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## mattthemuppet2

hah, if only!


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## John Hasler

I made brass gibs for my Grizzly table (which I'm still fettling).  I didn't like the idea of the grub screws chewing into the brass so I made steel backing plates from hacksaw blade and rounded off the ends of the screws.  To keep the gibs from sliding out I made retainers that screw onto the castings.  The steel backing should also distribute the force of the screws over the length of the gibs.  The retainers may also eventually serve to support way wipers.


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## mattthemuppet2

hmm, some good ideas there John. I was planning on retaining the top gib by a bolt into the casting, but I can't think of a safe )) way of making a slot to allow adjustment, so that one will get the divots too. All the screws will be ground round at the ends with my bench grinder, so that should reduce brass chewing somewhat. Felts for the ways would be cool, as would little concertina covers for the screws, but at the end of the day I should start using it to make things other than things for it  

Altogether I've had my lathe for 2 yrs and this for nearly a year and I haven't even started cutting metal for the bike light I've been planning for just as long! Hopefully though by the time I do I won't be making as many screw ups


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## John Hasler

Here's the assembly:



And the parts:



The fender washers are for the other gib.  They're what I would have used here had I not broken off a 6-32 tap in the only spot the screw could go.  The steel backing plate is hacksaw blade and the clips are plumbing strap.


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## mattthemuppet2

that's looking really good John, nice work! So you're only using 1 gib screw, but the steel plate spreads the forces along the whole gib? I could do that for the bottom gib, but the top gib gets exposed by moving the top slide, so the more support the better. How did you cut the angle on the sides? I had a hell of a time doing that on my DP..


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## John Hasler

mattthemuppet said:


> that's looking really good John, nice work! So you're only using 1 gib screw, but the steel plate spreads the forces along the whole gib?



No, I'm using three screws.



> I could do that for the bottom gib, but the top gib gets exposed by moving the top slide, so the more support the better. How did you cut the angle on the sides? I had a hell of a time doing that on my DP..



I cut a board at 30 degrees with my bandsaw and clamped the brass between the pieces, secured with double-sided tape.  Then I cut the angle with an end mill.


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## mattthemuppet2

that's a neat way to do it John, better than mine at least!

This is the jig I made to mill the screw holes



gib no. 2 nice'n'shiny



turns out I didn't quite cut the angle right, nevermind









each gib now has 5 adjustment screws to even out the pressure and to support the top gib when the top slide is cranked to either extreme



works an absolute dream, noticeably smoother _and_ tighter than before. Funny thing was, I went to grind the ends of the gib screws to fit the gibs properly and realised that I'd already packed my grinder. That'll have to wait until I get to WA.

Only other things left to do are attach the digital calipers to each axis and the quill and make a drill depth stop. Some kind of find feed would be neat too, but that'll have to wait


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## jeff_g1137

Hi
Great work:man:

I am looking at the sealey vice, hope i do not have to do all the work you have.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230920759500?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


jeff


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## mattthemuppet2

Thanks Jeff! I didn't really have to do any of this if it was just for drilling, but the moods have helped greatly for the light duty milling I've done/ plan to do

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks Jeff! I didn't really have to do any of this if it was just for drilling, but the moods have helped greatly for the light duty milling I've done/ plan to do


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## jeff_g1137

Hi
  I just revisited the thread, getting prepared for the work I may have to do, 
it’s just the time, it looks a good vice when done.

  Jeff


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## mattthemuppet2

still polishing 

Just finished adding digital readouts to the vise and the quill. Bit of a fiddle, especially the quill as I didn't want to drill into the drill press, but seriously worth it. As soon as I'd done the quill, I used it to mill some flats into a DIY slitting saw arbor to tighten up the nut. Worked out perfectly!







After quite a bit of use, I'm getting used to it's limitations and foibles (many). It's weird in that it seems pre-worn in the center of the Y axis, as it binds up at either extreme and is loose in the center, so I have to be really aware of adjusting the gib lock nut depending on where the vise is on the Y. Perhaps one day when I want to learn to scrape it'll make a good learning project!


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## JimDawson

That is pretty impressive.


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## mattthemuppet2

Thanks Jim! Crazy to think it's been 10 months since I started this. Still, when I eventually do get a proper mill, this will be the best hole driller for miles around


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