# Safely Moving A Surface Plate



## j. vibert

_It has been confirmed that J. Vibert's surface plate is of the "ledge type" form factor and is produced from a solid piece of granite. Suggestions on how to separate the believed sections, although appreciated, are now unnecessary. Thank you all very much._


Howdy,

Just yesterday I happen to win a 36x24x4" surface plate at a local online auction.  This morning I went to pick up my prize and was surprised to see it adhered to another smaller plate.  Why...?..., I have no idea.  At any rate the "combo" was sold as a single lot.  However now I have a double thick plate which is too much for me to move solo.

I can't say for sure what compound is being used to hold the two plates together, but there is bead of what appears to be silicone along the mating edge.

Can anyone suggest a silicone solvent that I may use that won't harm the plates.  Or simply just tell me that I have nothing to worry about....lol.

I have no idea and no means to check how thorough the glue job is, but the hope is to use something that will creep between the plates and liquefy the silicone entirely.

Maybe if I can get lucky I'll end up with two plates for the cost of one.  

Any feedback is welcome, and thanks in advance


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## John Hasler

Do a search for silicone solvent.  You'll get lots of hits such as this one:

http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/search/default.aspx?R=9982EN

Xylene will soften some silicones.  I suggest that you scrape off a sample and test different things on it.


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## RJSakowski

I am not aware of any solvent the will completely dissolve silicone.  Oils and the like will soften it over time and cause some swelling.  I would try WD40 or something similar.  Not as toxic as xylene or acetone.  If the plates are bonded over their entire interface, it could take years for the effect to reach the center.  If there is any kind of a gap, you may be able to insert some thin wedges around the perimeter, gradually pushing them deeper over time.  Once a gap is created the solvents have a better chance of working.


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## fgduncan

As a practical matter, I'd leave them glued together.  The silicone solvent has an almost microscopic edge to work on and so will penetrate the joint VERY slowly. If you were to turn it so that the smaller plate was on top, put a dike around the edges and fill the gap with solvent and let it sit for a long period of time, you might get them apart. Do not try to pry them apart. The adhesive is very good and you will chip the edges, if you don't break the plate.


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## j. vibert

Thank you for the extremely fast replies....

I did the standard google search before posting here.  The surface plate aspect isn't something that's apart of silicone solvent discussion.  That's why I figured I'd query those who know what I mean when I say surface plate...lol.

As it stands the plates need to come apart.  They simply are beyond my means as a combo.  I figured breaking down the silicone would be a long task, so I'll have to get a couple more pairs of hands to help me get them out of the Yukon in some sort of short/long term storage.

I think I'll scrap some of the bead off (great idea) and give the Xylene a go.  I have some rather strong degreasers used for metal painting prep.  May try that on a sample as well.


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## fgduncan

As a chemist (retired) I can tell you that even the best solvent will work slowly on silicone.  It is a VERY good adhesive. Dow makes a solvent for it, though, called Dow Corning DS-2025 Silicone Cleaning Solvent. It is an organic solvent of some sort.  I tried to get the MSDS to find out more about it with no luck. You will probably have to go through a distributor to get some. Even it will have a real job to do since the only point of attack is that very thin line of adhesive. Good luck.


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## Tony Wells

I'd pull a piano wire through the joint before trying to dissolve it. As mentioned, it is rather solvent resistant and there is little surface to act on.


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## j. vibert

Piano wire...  That's a great idea.  I can't image the joint is all that thin.

I need to get off my arse and start trying to get these plates apart.  I'll snap a couple of pics and come back with my progress if any.

Thanks again


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## John Hasler

I agree that trying to pry them apart would be risky, but it might help to drive in thin wedges (being careful not to chip the stone) to apply moderate tension to the joint while the solvent works.

It's also possible that the glue is only near the edges so that you won't have to wait eons for solvent to diffuse all the way to the center.  

Perhaps a combination of a wire (good idea!) and solvent might work.  Dig out as much sealant as possible, soak for a while, dig out the softened sealant, repeat.


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## Cactus Farmer

Would a little electricity heat up the wire to make it melt the silicone? I know it is pretty high heat resistant but anything tosleed up the process.


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## FOMOGO

Just out of curiosity, how flat is it now? Could it have been done that way to cut down on vibration while checking items for accuracy? Vacant minds want to know. Mike


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## j. vibert

Well I have an update, and fortunately it goes beyond managing to live past flipping the plate on it's side.  Unfortunately it's not good news.

What I thought was silicone appears to actual be an epoxy of some sort.


Not sure if that groove was an attempt by someone to saw them from one another, or just something cut in before the epoxy set up.  At any rate I tried to make some head way with a piece of metal band saw blade, but got nowhere in a hurry.

I honestly don't know if I have any options at this point, so again please feel free to suggest something.  For sake of making the larger plate functional/practical for me to use I'd even entertain breaking up the smaller plate.  However I have no clue how to even make a dent in it.  Let alone completely remove the bits and pieces from the underside.

FOMOGO:  I have no means to check the plate at the moment.  As it stands, it's got a semi permanent home in the back of the truck until I find a way to slug it around.  At this point I can't even say if my basement stairs could handle the weight of the move..lol

edit:  Forgot to add that the larger plate on top is a "micro-flat" made in California, and the bottom is a "rock of ages" which I think is from the Vermont area.


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## John Hasler

There are solvents for epoxies.  Examples:

http://www.dynaloy.com/products/epoxy
http://www.gesswein.com/p-5097-attack-epoxy-solvent.aspx

Here is a brief discussion of epoxy removal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Epoxy#Epoxy_Removal

Methylene chloride purportedly dissolves epoxies.  Heat, of course, will always work but you'd have to get the whole thing in an oven of some sort as uneven heating could crack the stone.


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## fgduncan

methylene chloride is extremely toxic and if you should decide to use it, put the unit somewhere away from the house!!! Also, if you heat it, it will evaporate very quickly. What you would gain by heating it would be lost by evaporation.


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## John Hasler

fgduncan said:


> methylene chloride is extremely toxic and if you should decide to use it, put the unit somewhere away from the house!!! Also, if you heat it, it will evaporate very quickly. What you would gain by heating it would be lost by evaporation.



I wasn't suggesting heating the methylene chloride.  I was suggesting heat as an alternative to solvents.   Trouble is, that would mean getting an object he can't even move into an oven.


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## stupoty

Are they both made of granite?

Stuart


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## extropic

I have no idea what your first photo represents. It's best to show "the big picture" along with the close up shot so that viewers can understand what's going on.
Please post a picture, or two, of the entire unit.
You have written that the 24 x 36 is adhered to a smaller plate. What size is the smaller plate?
Which plate is on top? A couple of decent pictures are worth . . .

I'll hold off on suggestions/speculation 'till the pic show up.


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## j. vibert

stupoty said:


> Are they both made of granite?
> 
> Stuart



Yes...  Well as best as I can tell.

hmmm...  After doing some digging on the stickered manufacturers I'm even more confused than I originally was.  The bottom plate has a "rock of ages" badge which means it was born in Vermont.  The top plate being a "Collins micro-flat" comes out of California.  My confusion lies in a google search to confirm the composition of the Collins for stupoty.

A vast majority the images for the Collins have it shown with an undersized plinth of the same material, which I'll admit isn't something I'm used to seeing a surface plate with.  At any rate, I'm now wondering if someone just got bored and for gags stuck these Rock of Ages badges on the plinth.

extropic:  The thread is about breaking down a silicone bond between what I believe to be separate surface plates.  Before and after the posted pic I have written a few sentences describing the joint between the two plates.  The pic was included so the joint/bond under discussion could be visually referenced.  I'm unsure how the physical orientation of the plates or the size of them effects the chemical composition of silicone or epoxy, but here's what extra I can offer at the moment.  The "top" plate (aka: the one I care about) is 36x24x~3".  The bottom plate, lets call it "the plinth" for now is a few inches smaller than 36, a few inches smaller than 24, and I'd hazard to say pretty close to 3" thick.  If you need accuracy beyond that it will have to wait till later this morning.  It's cold out, I'm enjoying the Sunday morning with family and it's going to take more than a need of inconsequential dimensions to get me to brave that cold at the moment...lol.

Here's a pic of the lot listing if you think it will help.


If you're interested in getting a closer look of what bond between the plates looks like, please reference the first pic I posted.

For what it's worth..  The badging on the "top" and "plinth" follow what you'll see after a google images search of the manufacturers spoken of earlier.  My point..., neither of the badges were written in Sharpie so I believe them to be authentic on some level.


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## stupoty

Hello,

All my idea's were for cast iron plates, I havn't used granite ones.

I couldn't see the glue splurge from the joint clearly in the picture.

Do granite plates wring together like steel stuff?  or does the granite let the air in and brake the seal?  I've managed to get some gauge blocks stuck to my plate using slightly too much blue'ing and that's not even an addheisive.

If the glue is a heavy viscousity and it was from a spillage it might be just at the edges but if they were deliberately glued together then the joint will have an immense surface area.

Stuart


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## j. vibert

stupoty said:


> I couldn't see the glue splurge from the joint clearly in the picture.



There's only one glue edge that appears to be a bead.  The rest were grooved back like what you see in the first pic.  I'll be venturing back outside in a few moments, and I'll snap some more pictures.



> If the glue is a heavy viscousity and it was from a spillage it might be just at the edges but if they were deliberately glued together then the joint will have an immense surface area.
> 
> Stuart



Based on nothing more than the weight of the plates and how squarely the plinth is centered on the top plate, I'd have to say it was deliberately done.  I have zero doubt that the adhesive follows some sort of pattern across the entire surface.  From my short experience that lends me to believe it would be similar to a continuous "s" pattern to allow for air to escape while being mated.

As it stands I'm afraid this isn't going to be much use to me.  Even if the main floor to my home and stairs don't buckle under the weight.  Without knowing for a fact I can separate the halves before needing to move them out of the basement shop again this calendar year, I'll have to put it in storage until I have a space with ground level access.  I bought the plate because I mistakenly thought it was only 3" thick and therefore manageable.  I don't consider the purchase a waste of time, just not what I hoped.

I haven't given up, just losing hope...lol


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## Chiptosser

It looks like they where joined to make the top plate taller.
Are the two pieces of granite different colors?
Are you sure it wasn't made as one unit?


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## j. vibert

Chiptosser said:


> It looks like they where joined to make the top plate taller.
> Are the two pieces of granite different colors?
> Are you sure it wasn't made as one unit?



Same colour, and I'm not 100% sure on anything at this point...

Here are some additional pics I just snapped...


Above, I flipped it on it's edge to get a closer look at what I believe is the glue joint.  This is the zoomed out version of the first pic in this thread.  The white diagonal white at the corner is from me attempting to cut the adhesive.


The manufacturer badge of the top plate...


The plinth plate's badging...


finally the current home, and different perspective of the whole unit


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## jim18655

Might have been a cheap way to add ledges to a good plate. The bottom part might have been worn or not made flat enough for spec. Can you slide it down planks laying on the steps? Spread the load out over more steps. Bring it in through a basement window the same way? Just don't try to hold it back from below.  A rope and slings around it and held from the top of the steps. Calculations on specific gravity of granite and cubic feet of the total plate should put it around 500 lbs.
3x2x.5 = 3cu ft 
specific gravity of granite =~170 lbs/cu ft
3 x 170 = 510 lbs.


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## Chiptosser

I believe it is as intended.
When used on a stand, the base was contained by an angle iron top.


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## j. vibert

jim18655:  Ya, that's what I'm thinking as well.  I wouldn't understand why a perfectly good plate would have been bought for the purpose of simply raising the height of another, but if a junker was already in hand then why not.

I just measured the basement windows and you are of course right.  The 24" dimension has tons of breathing room.  Only pitfall is the excessive amount of snow entombing those windows at the moment...lol.  Small hurdle really.  Would be tougher clearing a path to the window.  On the plus side the frost will keep the plate from sinking to the middle of the earth.

Your math regarding the overall weight worked out within a handful of pounds of mine.

Chiptosser:  Still not completely sure if it truly is the way it was intended.  The two separate name plates is enough to question it for me.  All the other examples of Collins plates I looked at, although having a plinth of some fashion, none of them used a surface plate from a different manufacturer as one.  Let alone a manufacturer from the other side of the country.


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## stupoty

At lest the weather wont rust the plate till you get it inside , advantages with the granite ones their 

Looks like the most solid base for a surface plate ever.  Its funny wondering the history of tools and the journies they have made.

Stuart


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## fgduncan

I have seen some surface plates in a Metrology lab that were actually made from solid stone like the one you have.  The design was so that it would sit in/on a MASSIVE table for stability. Your mention of a groove on three sides with glue on the fourth gives me pause. Take a look at the bottom of the grooves and see if there is an adhesive line or not.  If not, then you don't have two pieces stuck together, but one massive piece of stone. Either way, I really don't see any way to get them apart if they are glued together.

Keep us informed!


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## RJSakowski

It seems like the plates either are a single piece or a laminate as fgducan suggests.  The two different nameplates would indicate otherwise except for the fact that the Rock of Ages nameplate is for a resurfacing reconditioning.  It is possible that the plate is a Collins and that it was sent to Rock of Ages for the rework.  You have an asset tag on the plate.  Have you tried contacting Audio Magnetics to see if you can get a history?


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## fgduncan

I just got a look at your pictures and have some bad news.  That is ONE solid hunk of stone! That is just like the one in the metrology lab and is solid, not glued together. The stickers indicate it was made by Collins Microflat Co., Resurfaced by Rock of Ages in Vermont on 3/31/93 and at some time was the property of Audio Magnetics.


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## j. vibert

Well that certainly clears up the dual badges.  The asset tag belonged to the company that liquidated with the auction.  Not sure if they are completely defunked or only down sizing.

I'll be honest and say I'm still doubting the single chunk of stone angle.  The mating edges just don't jive with a ground shoulder.  I'll take a real hard look tomorrow when the sun is nice and bright.

However, let's assume that it is a single piece or even an insoluble bond holding pieces together.  How ridiculous is the notion of cutting them apart...?  Would it trash the tolerance of the upper portion..?  I have a granite counter top place locally that might have the capability to slice them.  Now this isn't something I'd entertain if there's any risk of destroying the usefulness of the top portion.  Just throwing the idea out there, as the thinner plate would make my life easier.


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## jim18655

I


j. vibert said:


> I'll be honest and say I'm still doubting the single chunk of stone angle.  The mating edges just don't jive with a ground shoulder.  I'll take a real hard look tomorrow when the sun is nice and bright.
> .


The ledge might have been  sawn and what you see as a glue joint might actually be the bottom of a saw kerf.


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## 4GSR

Do believe that's a four ledge surface plate.  Original accuracy was probably toolroom or lab grade.  Been degraded over time from use.  And if it was really resurfaced, which it could have been done so was brought up to a "B" grade accuracy.


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## Tony Wells

Maybe someone needed a plate with ledges and this was a way for them to get it.


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## stupoty

Hay if it's too big for you check the postage cost to the uk , 

Thats one piece of kit you shouldn't have to upgrade which is always good to know.

You could stick it on ebay and sell it to get a smaller one, they must be quite expensive that size. 

Or maybe use the clasifieds hear to do a strait swap maybe? Their must be somone with a more compact one that wan't to get a bigger one.

Stuart


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## j. vibert

stupoty said:


> Hay if it's too big for you check the postage cost to the uk ,



~$470cdn  depending on the delivery time  



> Thats one piece of kit you shouldn't have to upgrade which is always good to know.



Yes, that is the saving grace.  I'll keep it around for the time being.  I wish it was a tad more manageable, but hey where's the challenge in easy.


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## extropic

"inconsequential dimensions"?  The problem with being lost is that we can be deep into it before we realize.

Rock of Ages and/or Collins can (could have?), no doubt, make (made) any special dimension surface plate that a customer would pay for. However, if you look at any listing of common SP sizes, 3" thick 24 x 36 is not a common thickness. Too thin to resist self weight, let alone live load of work piece(s) and metrology equipment. 4" thick is only common in import SPs. I would expect a 24 x 36 to be 6" thick. Based on the OP, I had suspicion that what you have is actually a 4 ledge surface plate. The concept of "ledges" is to allow easy clamping of work/fixtures to the SP. The ledges, at ≈3" thick, are stiff enough to support any reasonable load due to ≈3" overhang. The fact that your unit has labels from two manufacturers may be contrary evidence to my "4 ledge" theory", but not necessarily. The plate may have been manufactured by one and modified/reworked/calibrated by the other. The presence of some type of "epoxy" material isn't conclusive to me that you have two discreet plates bonded into an assembly.

In addition to  whatever I might glean from seeing your piece in person, I would look for manufacturers serial numbers and call the to request info regarding what was built. I don't know if that info is retained, but I would call to find out.

If you have two discreet plates, I don't know what the perpetrator had in mind. The bottom of SPs are not commonly precision flats so now you would have a rough surface sitting on a precision surface? Reason? I can't imagine. The idea of bonding two thin plates together to create a stiffer unit would be news to me (but a good question to ask the manufacturers). Is that a valid manufacturing technique?

I'm guessing that your plate came from an industrial environment. Although bonding two discrete plates together is easy to understand in a hobby context, I bet it's very rare, or nonexistent (possible factory manufacturing technique not withstanding) in an industrial user environment related to precision metrology (maybe they just needed some ballast).

If you intend to end up with a precision surface plate, familiarize yourself with 'airy points' and implement a three point (small area elastomeric pads) mounting system. I would ask a manufacturer if the airy points are the same for a 4 ledge plate as they are for a no ledge plate (I don't think so).

Good luck.

On edit: I just saw numerous photos that were not posted (I missed?) when I read earlier. That is a 4 ledge plate. It isn't a bonded assembly. If you look at the "Rock of Ages" tag, it says RESURFACED. Conclusion; it's a Collins plate that was resurfaced/upgraded/calibrated by Rock of Ages. It's a nice piece. Make/buy a great stand for it (I see at least one elastomeric pad bonded at an airy point) and enjoy.


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## j. vibert

extropic said:


> The problem with being lost is that we can be deep into it before we realize.



I like that, and it's extremely true.



> I'm guessing that your plate came from an industrial environment.



The company which liquidated their assets produced audio recording medium, such as cd, dvd, vhs.....  There were several surface plates that were on the block.  I won the plate grouping so had the first choice of all the plates in the room.  All of which were smaller in dimension then this Collins.  This was my undoing as with the smaller perimeter dimensions come thinner plates.  This Collins (because of the ledges) appeared to sitting on another lot.  Uneducated mistake on my part.  At any rate I only choose this Collins because of the 36" dimension.  My hope is to dabble on some hand scraping in the foreseeable future.  Figured the larger plate would be more useful in that regard.



> On edit: I just saw numerous photos that were not posted (I missed?) when I read earlier. That is a 4 ledge plate. It isn't a bonded assembly. If you look at the "Rock of Ages" tag, it says RESURFACED. Conclusion; it's a Collins plate that was resurfaced/upgraded/calibrated by Rock of Ages. It's a nice piece. Make/buy a great stand for it (I see at least one elastomeric pad bonded at an airy point) and enjoy.



Nope you missed nothing.  I braved the cold later in the day and snapped some more pics.  I tend to be a video kind of guy so I didn't have stills available when I first posted the thread. 

Although the plate is much beefy than I anticipated.  I see no reason to flip it (so to speak) and start my search for a cheap/good reference surface again.  The only real pain I'm suffering is the likelihood of moving from my current home within the next large handful of months.  Makes lugging this plate downstairs and then most likely back up again in relatively short order an annoying venture.


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## extropic

At .00034" accuracy, per the Rock of Ages tag, it's about a grade "B" (.0004") plate. A "AA" Laboratory grade plate is .0001". The grade "B" may be suitable for your stated usage but it would be good to have a map of your plates surface. With a map, you can choose to work in the "best" area. Maybe that area is within .0001". Getting an accurate map will probably involve a profe$$ional calibration $ervice. There may be "DIY" mapping techniques but I'm not familiar. 

I don't know what your needs and priorities are, but I would seriously consider making a wooden box, on a pallet, and store it until you move to the new house. If the storage needs to be outside, I would insulate the box (inside the box) with rigid foam sheet just to smooth out the temperature extremes. It's a rock after all.

There's always the option of offering it for sale at a profit and, later, buying a new Starrett Crystal Pink grade "AA" for about $2K delivered to your new home. Your wife (assumed) will like the color but what ever you do, never let her find out what it cost. You would also probably have quite a few new friends standing around, putting fingerprints all over it and making manly sounds (think Tim Allen, Tool Time).

Good Luck.


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## j. vibert

extropic said:


> There's always the option of offering it for sale at a profit and, later, buying a new Starrett Crystal Pink grade "AA" for about $2K delivered to your new home. Your wife (assumed) will like the color but what ever you do, never let her find out what it cost. You would also probably have quite a few new friends standing around, putting fingerprints all over it and making manly sounds (think Tim Allen, Tool Time).
> 
> Good Luck.



Ah ha...  You did miss something.  "Cheap/good" are the only real criteria...lol.  The first being mandatory, the second ballpark requirement.  Pretending I managed to earn 75% of the cost of buying the Starrett plate by selling this Collins, I still wouldn't invest that much cash into a lab grade replacement.  Just not in the cards for me.  "Good" is good enough for this hobbyist.

...and unfortunately my close friends are still trying to figure out why I didn't just pick up an off cut from the local granite counter place....lol


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## markknx

Not sure if this will get it hot enough but seems like it could. If you can got the plates to a warm shed or garage, let them warm up to the temp. of the space this will take some time (like 12 hours). prop them up on their side in a way that protects both plates. Then aim a torpedo heater at them from say 5' (1.5 m) as the plates heat up slowly move the heater closer. The idea here is to slowly heat the plates so they don't crack, take your time. Not sure at what temp. the epoxy will give but once it does it sould also scrape off pretty easy at that temp. I think once the plates are hot to the touch would be a good time to try to gentely separate them.
Mark
PS I was going to say piano wire also till you changed to epoxy.

One more thought if heating does not work and you decide to destroy the small plate. A tile or masons table saw that can be set to cut as deep as the smaller plate is thick, could be used to take cuts every 1/2" or so. then these thin strips could be snapped off easy and safely. A concrete grinder could then be used to finish.


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## ARKnack

Personally I would leave it alone. If you try to separate them more then likely you would not be happy with the results. I have a 36x24x6 pink stone that and was able to move it myself. First Mine came with a rolling stand that was just a little bit lower than my tailgate but high enough to be rested against the tailgate lip. I just slid the stone off the truck on to the cart. A few blue words and prying helped. 

In your case, if you are moving I would leave it in the back of the truck. It helps with traction. You may want to consider getting/renting a engine lift to get it out of the truck. Then as others have said slide it down stairs on a 2x10.


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## gheumann

What does it weigh? I am late but would have suggested the piano wire (or fishing line) for silicone; solvent or heat for epoxy.


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## doc55

That plate is one plate we have the same plate anyway looks exactly the same in our tool room it is a tool room grade plate and the bottom fits into the stand.


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## Tony Wells

I also think that it is a ledged plate....not 2 pieces. I wouldn't spend any time trying to separate it since it's one piece. Nice plate, btw.


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## Bob Korves

As others have said, that is a one piece, four ledge surface plate.  A nice one.  Get it down into your basement and get it set up.  If they could build pyramids in Egypt by hand, you can get a 500 pound plate down your basement stairs and onto a stand.  Then get on with your scraping projects...        8^)


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## j. vibert

Thanks for the additional input everyone....

Yes, we have come to the conclusion that it is indeed a single plate.  I was simply thrown off by the individual badges by different companies.  That combined with a room full of plates that were half this thick added to my assumption.

At any rate, the plan to get the plate into the basement is in the development stage.  It's going threw a window as the stairs just don't lend well to navigating such a cumbersome object down them.  If it were a straight shot down it would be a different story but the tight 90 degree bend isn't something I want to deal with.

I'll be sure to set up the camera when the move happens and post the aftermath.

Thanks again,

Jarrett


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## Tony Wells

If you have a 2 wheeler, treat it like a refrigerator and you can get it down the steps. Perhaps a trusting friend downhill from it to assist. Wish I could trade ya.


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## obsolete_aok

What a thread!! Of course after finding out that your 500#er is one piece, be one heckova time to find that your stairs have been visited by termites.... In the South that's a recurring problem but thankfully most folks don't have cellars.

Move it Navy style: plank the steps and use either a Navy block-and-tackle or go to a lubber comealong. Humans holding ropes... omg. At the bottom that last step could get crushed even with planking. 

Going down stairs or down a planked incline, the SP is going to weigh more than the 500#. That's from momentum. When it lurches forward a bit, it picks up mo. The effect is worse rolling a wagon down a hill because the wheels contribute even more mo.

Then there's the cellar floor. But you knew that. Good luck !! (I just "won" some goggles off eBay. Big whoop.)


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## joshua43214

Nice plate.

Moving it should not be a big deal.

Run out to your local equivalent of Harbor Freight and pick up their cheapest chain fall (I have used one to lift landscaping boulders about twice the rated weight), and a dirt cheap moving dolly (it only has to work once before it collapses).

Back your truck up to the basement window, put a 4x4 across the window opening to hook the chain fall to it and drag the plate out of the truck onto a stage outside the window. You can drop the plate onto a couple of stacked tires (this is how you unload 55 gallon drums), or onto a ramp wedged up against the bottom of the window (best choice). Once the plate is up near the window on the ramp, support the ramp at the truck end and move the truck a few feet. If the ramp is ~6 feet long, you should be able to lift the light end pretty easily once the plate is at the other end.

Use pry bars to raise the ramp onto the window sill (tip the ramp over 2x4 fulcrum). Place a second ramp in the basement (nailed very securely to the floor or wedged so it won't slide), and drag the plate onto the top of the basement ramp and tie it off to your tow hitch. Move the chain fall to the tow hitch and let gravity slide it down the ramp as you lower it with the chain fall. Wedge/lever it up onto the dolly at the bottom of the ramp and use a hoist to get it onto your bench.

Total cost is ~$50.00 plus hoist rental from your local NAPA.

I used this exact strategy to move my new lathe into a first floor bedroom a few weeks ago, only I had to go up the stairs rather than down. Took less than an hour and was pretty painless. You just go slow, put tension on with the chain fall, lever a bit, more tension, lever some more, etc. Just make sure you can always get a 2x4 under it, you don't want to invest in an expensive spud bar if you can avoid it.


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## j. vibert

Interesting suggestion Joshua....  Several aspects won't work in my particular situation but you have me hoping you made a video of your lathe move.

I plan on getting to plate down into the basement this weekend. Still haven't completely decided on the plan of attack, but either way its going to be fun.


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## joshua43214

Sorry no video.
I had planned to take pictures as I went. I took a pic of the crate in the driveway, the next thing I knew the crate was in the bedroom.
A chain fall makes the whole thing painless. We had to beat the ramps back down a couple of times with a mini-sledge getting the crate onto the stoop, then we got it into the door with the help of a floor jack and let it tip onto the dolly. Most of our time was spent getting it aimed perfectly at the door while dragging it onto a pair of 4x4 skids.
My biggest worry was crushing the crate, but I just strapped it low and it was fine.
I will be ordering a new mill at the end of the month, I will make sure to properly document it (not that that helps you this weekend  ).


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## j. vibert

joshua43214 said:


> I will be ordering a new mill at the end of the month, I will make sure to properly document it (not that that helps you this weekend  ).



No worries...  I've moved more than my fair share of machinery.  Most of which out weighs this plate by a solid margin.

The concern centers around my desire not to damage my home during the move....lol.  I unwittingly placed my shop space in the center of nicely finished areas.


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## bobl

Have you tryed acetone this will work on apoxy as will melt fiberglass resins try on a scraping if it works good luck
Bob


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## j. vibert

Hi Bob, thanks for the reply.  We came to the conclusion a while back that the plate is in fact a single piece, and manufactured in that manner.

In regards to the surface plate move I have good and bad news....

The good is, I finally have it out of the back of the Yukon, and I pulled it off without an engine hoist. Just so happens that the stand my 9" lathe came on is the same height as the bed of the truck. I strategically positioned the truck, pulled the plate onto the stand, and then used a chain fall strapped to the car port main beam to lower it to ground level. I even managed to find myself a appliance hand truck to hopefully cart the plate into the house and down into the basement.

Which brings me to the bad. As it is, the nearly 500lbs plate is too much for me to man handle myself. 
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 Couldn't even manage to get it up the few steps into my home. Made a few phone calls and wasn't able to reach anyone. So.., the plate is currently living outside until I get the materials to build my basement window ramp. Probably for the best anyway.

Took tons of video. Need to edit out the boring stuff though. 

Guess I should start another thread, or maybe ask to have the title of this one changed.


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## mikew67

Hey, just do it like Michelangelo did -- with chisel and mallet 

Mike (running and ducking....)

PS: Actually not as crazy as it might sound.  If you carefully chip away a corner edge of the bottom, you'll at least be able to establish whether it's one piece or not.  And, in the latter case, the type and strength of the bond.


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## j. vibert

Lol...  it is one piece.


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## j. vibert

j. vibert said:


> Guess I should start another thread, or maybe ask to have the title of this one changed.



*"Safely Moving A Surface Plate"*

Thanks....


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## Tony Wells

Most welcome.


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## psychodelicdan

Have you called a granite  fab shop. They might be able to saw it loose or some such thing. The folks that shape and  install granite counter tops should have some ideas. Maybe the could core out a pattern of holes in the bottom plate to lighten it or to provide access for some type of solvent.


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## j. vibert

psychodelicdan said:


> Have you called a granite  fab shop. They might be able to saw it loose or some such thing. The folks that shape and  install granite counter tops should have some ideas. Maybe the could core out a pattern of holes in the bottom plate to lighten it or to provide access for some type of solvent.



Even after we determined that it is in fact a single piece of granite I did give some thought to taking it down the road to the local granite counter top place to see if they could slice it in two.  Not sure what that would do to the accuracy of the plate however, so I opted not to potentially ruin it and rather deal with the move.



Tony Wells said:


> Most welcome.



Appreicated..., but you did set a bar by using "safely" in the new title.  After all is said and done you may want to omit that tidbit, for insurance purposes....lol


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## Tony Wells

We will either learn how to, or how not to, depending on your success or the ER bill...as long as you document it. ;-)


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## j. vibert

The hand truck actually bombed...lol. It worked great up until I needed to lift the plate up three steps onto my main floor from outside. Simply couldn't lift the weight, and no real means to mechanically do the task. However the plate has landed, so to speak. After a long day of effort I finally managed to get the slab downstairs and sitting nicely on the make shift cart I built for it.

There's tons of video, and a few stills of the whole day's efforts. So much so that it will take several days to organize it into something worth sitting down for. To hold anyone who's interested over until then....


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## Cactus Farmer

So, the ledge was used to keep it centered in the 2X6 track? That worked rather well it appears.


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## j. vibert

Yes, exactly...  Once I had the plate fully on the "tracks" I screwed down another cross member on the top of them to stop them from opening.


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## 4GSR

Cool!!!


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## Uglydog

This is yet another one I need to remember!
Daryl
MN


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## Smoky

j. vibert said:


> Howdy,
> 
> Just yesterday I happen to win a 36x24x4" surface plate at a local online auction.  This morning I went to pick up my prize and was surprised to see it adhered to another smaller plate.  Why...?..., I have no idea.  At any rate the "combo" was sold as a single lot.  However now I have a double thick plate which is too much for me to move solo.
> 
> I can't say for sure what compound is being used to hold the two plates together, but there is bead of what appears to be silicone along the mating edge.
> 
> Can anyone suggest a silicone solvent that I may use that won't harm the plates.  Or simply just tell me that I have nothing to worry about....lol.
> 
> I have no idea and no means to check how thorough the glue job is, but the hope is to use something that will creep between the plates and liquefy the silicone entirely.
> 
> Maybe if I can get lucky I'll end up with two plates for the cost of one.
> 
> Any feedback is welcome, and thanks in advance


Hi, Why not try a high pressure power washer, once the bond is separated by the water it may come apart easily, It's worth trying and costs nothing.


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## j. vibert

Well water has been breaking down solid stone for centuries so I see no reason why that wouldn't work eventually...  

Shame I can't edit the first post, as the rest of the thread doesn't seem to be getting much attention....lol


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## j. vibert

Managed to finally get the first day of vids compiled...




There's some frustration on my part, so enjoy my misery.


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## RJSakowski

I have safely moved multiple objects, some weighing more than a thousand lbs., up and down my basement steps by myself.  I use two 2 x 6" planks tied together with cross bars and a "come-along" or block and tackle.  Make sure the plate is securely fastened with nylon strapping  and start it down a few clicks at a time.  You do not want it to build up any momentum.  Depending on the slope of your stairs, it may slide on its own or you may have to nudge it.  Stop when you get to your 90 degree turn and set it on the landing, rearrange your planking, reorient the plate and start it  down the next flight.  If you place a second set of planks a few steps up, you can transfer the plate to them and lift the opposite end up to your final resting place.  Don't rush the process.  It takes a little time but you don't want to damage your home, the plate , or yourself.  Do yourself a favor and put the stand on casters so you can easily move it.  Was it not Archimedes that said "Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world."?.  Physics rules!  Good luck!


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## RJSakowski

I just watched your video and I feel your frustration.  I hadn't realized that you had to go up steps as well.  One suggestion would be to place your levers under the plywood and lift the opposite end up to lay your plywood a a more shallow angle which will reduce the force need to pull it up.  If you get it high enough to place a garage jack under it,  you could jack the plywood to horizontal.  You could also slide the plate  of your dolly under the plywood to lift. Keep in mind the the effort you are exerting to go up the steps is the amount of restraint you will need to control the plate going down.  Should you decide to go your current route and you are concerned about damaging your floor, put a sheet of plywood down to distribute the weight better.  Again, good luck!


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## j. vibert

Thanks for the suggestions gentlemen...

The plate is already in my shop.  Just took me a while to piece together what footage I have.  What you watched above was what happened on day one, (sat).  I still have to compile the Sunday efforts but will post it asap.


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## j. vibert

enjoy....


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## j. vibert

Nothing...?  Really...?

Figured that would get a comment or two....lol.


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## sgisler

That's a cliff-hanger!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## j. vibert

Since there was a shred of interest in my video content/editing skills I figured I would post the final episode for sgisler


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## RJSakowski

j. vibert said:


> Since there was a shred of interest in my video content/editing skills I figured I would post the final episode for sgisler


I hadn't seen any notice of your final endeavor until today.  It may have gotten lost in one of the furries of activity on the site.Actually, I think that there was a lot of interest in the outcome.  I have yet to watch the 2nd video but your final solution looks well engineered. I was apprehensive about sliding the plate down with just the two cross braces and was glad to see that you used another tie at the top once you loaded the plate.  I have used a similar technique for my bring or removing heavy equipment into my basement and I always use at least three tie straps.

If you can, save your ramp.  You will need it again if/when you want to remove the plate.  You might want to use if for a new lathe as well.

Enjoy your new toy!
Bob


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## RJSakowski

BTW, Your cart is anything but makeshift!


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## sgisler

Wow, glad to see a happy ending! You had me on pins and needles for 2 months!
Congrats on a job well done. 


Stan,
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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