# Curious about why these didn't sell.



## middle.road (Jan 16, 2020)

I was watching on-line auctions today. Curious as to why these Fadals didn't go.
This one came up in Goleta. 
I was trying to harvest 'sold' prices to put together a reference but alas some of these site are showing the hammer price after it closes.
There were two Fadals, one a VMC40 the other a VMC4020
They don't appear to have received any bids on them. I may have been 10 minutes off keeping an eye on them but it was one of those auctions
where the time gets bumped if there's a bid. I think I finally figured out a method to capture but I was a bit late for this auction.
The Bridgeports #2 & #3 went for over $4500, and the Hardinge TEB-Hs #10 & #11, went for over $12,500 ea.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jan 17, 2020)

you would have figured for the price there would be a bite or 3


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## projectnut (Jan 17, 2020)

Looking at the opening bid price, adding in the 18% buyers premium, 6.25% tax, and $3,000.00 handling fee, the minimum a buyer could get away with is $7200.00+.  Even at that price the machine wouldn't be available for another month.

Many times the sales, or lack of them, for CNC machines is dependent on the electronics and software that run the machine.  If the electronics are obsolete and no longer supported very few commercial shops would be interested.  Even though the mechanical components might be in good shape it could cost more than the initial price to upgrade the machine to useable standards.  Even if it could be done the time and cost in most cases would be prohibitive.  About the only people that would be interested in a machine this size would be commercial shops.  They don't want to invest in unknown quantities with little or no support, and possibly wait months or years to put the machine into service.


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## Liljoebrshooter (Jan 17, 2020)

I read on pm about older haas machines.  Anything over 10yrs old has almost zero factory support,  especially on electronics.  It was stated that the price to replace some of the elctronic components was more than the value of the machine.  Pretty sad.

Joe


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## Cadillac (Jan 17, 2020)

See it all the time In the auctions. To old to take a chance on as a company and to big and intimidating for the hobbiest. Question is what happens to these machines when no one buys? Do they just scrap them? That would be sad


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## projectnut (Jan 17, 2020)

Cadillac said:


> See it all the time In the auctions. To old to take a chance on as a company and to big and intimidating for the hobbiest. Question is what happens to these machines when no one buys? Do they just scrap them? That would be sad



In many cases they are purchased by used equipment dealers or salvage companies (at scrap prices) and get parted out.  There are still salvageable parts that can be used to repair damaged machines.  One used equipment dealer in our area purchases several per year.  He disassembles them and sells the parts.  Given the age and lack of support for the machines there is a brisk business for used parts.


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## cjtoombs (Jan 17, 2020)

I've used the sold option on ebay to check prices that items have sold for, you might give that a try.


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## DangerZone (Jan 17, 2020)

I'm still learning all I can about manual machines, so CNC is a little out of my scope. I'm going to ask my stupid questions anyway. 

If someone could get an outdated CNC that nobody else wants, what are the possibilities of "converting" the machine to a more manual status? As these are setup, maybe mounting hand wheels aren't feasible, but could someone wire a simple forward backward switch to the stepper motor's? Basically bypass the software and use it like a manual mill? Or am I really far off on this one?


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## cjtoombs (Jan 17, 2020)

DangerZone said:


> I'm still learning all I can about manual machines, so CNC is a little out of my scope. I'm going to ask my stupid questions anyway.
> 
> If someone could get an outdated CNC that nobody else wants, what are the possibilities of "converting" the machine to a more manual status? As these are setup, maybe mounting hand wheels aren't feasible, but could someone wire a simple forward backward switch to the stepper motor's? Basically bypass the software and use it like a manual mill? Or am I really far off on this one?



Updating the electronics on old CNC machines by hobbyists is not unheard of, and as for using it as a more "manual" machine, you could use conversational programming to do that.  The problem you run into is that you have to get the right machine.  One of the monsters with a 30hp spindle motor can't even be run on the power available to residential customers, and you have to watch out for worn out machines, if the electronics are that obsolete, it's likely the machine has ran near continuously for 20 years.  Also, it's a lot of work and you may wind up with more in it than you can just buy a new machine from Tormach or one of the others that sell hobby grade CNC machinery.


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## JimDawson (Jan 17, 2020)

I would buy machines like that for the opening bid price or less, maybe in the $0.10 / lb range, if they can load it for free.  And that's only if they appear to be in good mechanical condition.  $7200 out the door is way too much for a machine like that, at least for me.


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## middle.road (Jan 17, 2020)

Duh, I missed reading the details. $3080 handling fee. whoa.

These sites aren't setup like eBay where you can view the sold price.
Quite a number of them are choosing to not publish or show the hammer price. There's even a note to that effect on some.
What I figured out towards the end of the afternoon is that next time I'm going to setup the auction with max items shown in the separate browser windows and then just let it sit until the end of the auction and then print them to PDF.
But that only worked on one site yesterday.
The one in Tulsa by Asset Sales on Bidspotter, the sold for price disappeared immediately. 
So I've got two pages of hand written chicken scratches trying to snag the prices.
I would think 'showing off' what something went for would be a plus for future clients, but there must be some other reason.


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## pdentrem (Jan 17, 2020)

We have two Sodick A350 wire edm machines that are going out the door. The control boards are no longer available except on the used market and way over priced! We were quoted $7000 for just one board! Well that finished #1 machine and even with moving parts over to #2 machine, it is not economical to repair it as well. 

Buying used machines can be economical if they can be seen running successfully, but just buying from a salvage seller is more likely to meet the terms of “pig in a poke” and even if repairable, at what cost and time. The good machines tend to be sold to friendly competitors or to current/former employees and the rest moved to resellers. 
Pierre


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## middle.road (Jan 17, 2020)




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## cjtoombs (Jan 17, 2020)

middle.road said:


> Duh, I missed reading the details. $3080 handling fee. whoa.
> 
> These sites aren't setup like eBay where you can view the sold price.
> Quite a number of them are choosing to not publish or show the hammer price. There's even a note to that effect on some.
> ...



They would probably like to show off the highest selling prices and hide the low ones to drive up expectations.  That's hard to program, so they just hide them all.


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## Cadillac (Jan 17, 2020)

middle.road said:


> View attachment 310934



I do frequent auctions in my area through bidspotter and the only way you as bidder see the hammer price is if you catch it before the hammer drops or are the winning bidder. Which they screen shot and give you for your records. 
 Auctions don’t want to show winning bids because they wanna make as much as possible on each sale. They’re not in it for a fire sale price they want as much as possible.


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