# Introduction - New Atlas Lathe Owner



## Red Beard Ops (Sep 13, 2020)

Hey guys,

I made this video as an introduction and to "show off" my new Atlas Lathe. I got this guys from my father who had it in a back shed and am extremely excited to start playing with it.






I'm a knife maker and youtuber... and I plan on using this guy to make fasteners, finniels, pomel nuts, etc. Will probably be making a good deal of tools with it as well. 

I've been gathering up a few questions and this forum seems like the best place on the internet to get answers on these lathes. I'm new to lathes... so I apologize if some of these are very basic... newbish. 


How do I classify/name this lathe?
Based on the 10D-247 and some other searches I've been doing I think I would call this a 10''x24'' lathe. This first number is the swing,right? With a tape measure the distance between the center and table is about 6'', so wouldn't the swing be a 12''? 

Does the 101.07361 give a good indication of date of manufacture? 
Looking though the Atlas DB yall have in the stickies, I only found one that matched and it was dated in the 1030s. 

Is the vibration in the video normal?
It appears that someone installed a replacement motor on this lathe
Maybe I need new V-Blets? 

It had an 8'' chuck on it. This seemed large to me, is it the normal size for this machine? 
Are there limitations to using 1/4'' tooling? Just seems small in comparison to what I've been seeing online. 
Any other suggestions on checks, cleaning, tooling, etc

Cheers guys,
I'm super happy I found this Forum,
James
Red Beard Ops


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## mickri (Sep 13, 2020)

Welcome to the forum.  You will definitely get the answers to whatever questions that you have.
Your lathe is an early Craftsman 12 inch lathe.  Forum member wa5cab will chime in here with all of the info you need on your lathe.  I believe that 4670S is the serial number.  That will be the best indicator of when your lathe was built.

We love to help people spend their money on accessories for their lathes and other machinery.  Tell us what you have and we will go from there.

I have a Craftsman 12x36.  The 8" chuck is a common size chuck for your lathe.  I have two 8" chucks for my lathe.  I mostly use 1/4" and 3/8" tool bits.  The size of the tool bit somewhat depends on what you are doing.  I have some 1/8" tool bits that I use with my small boring bars. 

One of your first decisions will be what type of tool post holder to use.  Your video shows a lantern style tool post.  These are not the easiest to use.  Most people go to a quick change tool post (QCTP).  You can buy them, $$$$$$$, or make one, $.  The big cost is not the tool post but the tool holders.  You will need at least 10 tool holders.  You can never have too many tool holders.  Because I was and still am a newbie at this hobby I chose to make a norman style QCTP.  It was a great learning experience.  Time consuming.

A must read is Mikeys very, very long thread on grinding tool bits.  I can not over stress how important it is to have properly ground sharp tool bits.

In watching your video to me it sounded like your lathe needs to be lubricated.  There are a lot of lube points and they need to be lubed every time you use your lathe.  If you don't have one get a needle oiler.   Makes it easy to lubricate your lathe.

Again welcome to the forum.


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## Nogoingback (Sep 13, 2020)

Hi James.  Welcome to the forum.
I can't help you with identifying your lathe, but we have some Atlas experts around here that should turn up soon.
They can help.  Looks like your lathe is in good condition.  One change you should consider is the addition
of a quick change tool post since your lathe has the original lantern style post.  There is some cost for the post
and the tool holders, but they make life much easier in the long run.

Edit: well I guess someone showed up before I could post...


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## Bi11Hudson (Sep 13, 2020)

Good morning, Sir. And welcome aboard the board. One that can stand my "sea stories" is well worth being a regular to. I am not that familiar with the series numbers. Mine is a Craftsman 101.27440, btw, 12X36. The grandson of yours, I think. It dates from the early 50s but has a couple of newer modifications. Most particularly, a quick change threading/feed selector box. The 101.07361 marks it as a Craftsman machine. Both the Atlas and Sears machines are essentially the same. Where the Atlas has a 10" swing, the Sears Craftsman has 12" capacity.

I think the Craftsman is a little "flimsier" than the Atlas, mostly from the size difference. But otherwise the same. For their size, they (both Atlas & Craftsman) are not the most rigid machines in their class. But are quite suitable for casual use. The "lantern" tool post that you show is the original design. It is frustrating for a noob to set up but its' use goes back a hundred years or more and is well worth learning how to use. I would highly recommend a quick change design although I do keep my lantern post handy for occasional use. There are always a few things that must be done the "old way" on any machine.

One of the ships I was on (in the 70s) had the electric shop on one side and a machine like your's on the other. We didn't have a machinist as such in the crew, but the machine was used by a number of people in different shops. I learned how to set the machine up with a lantern tool post and 4 jaw chuck. Essentially the "old school" way. Having learned on a "homade" machine, I knew what I wanted to do. Just needed to figure out how on a proper machine.

One of your largest concerns seems to be vibration. Mine doesn't. Something is "out of balance", likely the chuck. Your's is  a rather large 4 jaw independent chuck. I would say to remove it and see if the machine still vibrates. The 4 jaw is only truely balanced when all four jaws are set to the same depth. Not necessarily but I would look there first. You've had the chuck in hand, you know it's heavy. Short of the head stock and bed frame, probably the heaviest part of the machine. If that's not the cause, I'd look to the pulleys. There are several large ones. It wouldn't take much to throw one off balance.

Keep us up to date. There is a "sub section" particular to the Atlas/Craftsman machines. One of them will chime in eventually.

.


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## vocatexas (Sep 13, 2020)

Welcome, James. You'll find some great folks here to help you spend your money on tooling! There are some very knowledgeable people here and most will go out of their way to help someone. 

That looks like a nice machine  you've got there. With the down-turn in the oilfield of late, keep your eyes open for auctions and people selling tooling. I've seen a couple of listings recently in your area. You can often pick up tooling for pennies on the dollar if you hit the right auction or sale.

Good to see another Texican here. I'm over in McCulloch County near Brady.


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 13, 2020)

mickri said:


> Welcome to the forum.  You will definitely get the answers to whatever questions that you have.
> Your lathe is an early Craftsman 12 inch lathe.  Forum member wa5cab will chime in here with all of the info you need on your lathe.  I believe that 4670S is the serial number.  That will be the best indicator of when your lathe was built.
> 
> We love to help people spend their money on accessories for their lathes and other machinery.  Tell us what you have and we will go from there.
> ...



Thank you sir, good information right there. I think you may be right on the lubrication. I topped off all the oilers with some 3&1.

I ran the lathe for 8 min and the temperature of these housings raised as follows:

A - 90F to 118F
B - 87F to 95F
C - 87F to 95F


__
		https://flic.kr/p/2jGdgsQ

Not sure if that means anything...

To start off and get me in the game I'm looking at the AXA 100 series for the quick change post. Seems like it only needs light modification for the Atlas Lathes. While I enjoy tool making projects, I have other items on the list to knock out first!




Nogoingback said:


> Hi James.  Welcome to the forum.
> I can't help you with identifying your lathe, but we have some Atlas experts around here that should turn up soon.
> They can help.  Looks like your lathe is in good condition.  One change you should consider is the addition
> of a quick change tool post since your lathe has the original lantern style post.  There is some cost for the post
> ...



Thank you sir! Duly noted



Bi11Hudson said:


> Good morning, Sir. And welcome aboard the board. One that can stand my "sea stories" is well worth being a regular to. I am not that familiar with the series numbers. Mine is a Craftsman 101.27440, btw, 12X36. The grandson of yours, I think. It dates from the early 50s but has a couple of newer modifications. Most particularly, a quick change threading/feed selector box. The 101.07361 marks it as a Craftsman machine. Both the Atlas and Sears machines are essentially the same. Where the Atlas has a 10" swing, the Sears Craftsman has 12" capacity.
> 
> I think the Craftsman is a little "flimsier" than the Atlas, mostly from the size difference. But otherwise the same. For their size, they (both Atlas & Craftsman) are not the most rigid machines in their class. But are quite suitable for casual use. The "lantern" tool post that you show is the original design. It is frustrating for a noob to set up but its' use goes back a hundred years or more and is well worth learning how to use. I would highly recommend a quick change design although I do keep my lantern post handy for occasional use. There are always a few things that must be done the "old way" on any machine.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the information sir! It's great to learn about these older machines... I'm happy to put this one back in service!

I took the chuck off and am still having around the same level of vibration.




vocatexas said:


> Welcome, James. You'll find some great folks here to help you spend your money on tooling! There are some very knowledgeable people here and most will go out of their way to help someone.
> 
> That looks like a nice machine  you've got there. With the down-turn in the oilfield of late, keep your eyes open for auctions and people selling tooling. I've seen a couple of listings recently in your area. You can often pick up tooling for pennies on the dollar if you hit the right auction or sale.
> 
> Good to see another Texican here. I'm over in McCulloch County near Brady.



Good idea! I'll have to jump on the craig's list and ebay to take a look. Thanks for the tips, sir. God bless Texas.


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 13, 2020)

Also note: With the drive pulleys running and the "spindle pulleys" dis engaged... there is very little vibration.


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## Bi11Hudson (Sep 13, 2020)

Some other thoughts, I sorta think slow(er) these days.


Red Beard Ops said:


> How do I classify/name this lathe?
> Based on the 10D-247 and some other searches I've been doing I think I would call this a 10''x24'' lathe. This first number is the swing,right? With a tape measure the distance between the center and table is about 6'', so wouldn't the swing be a 12''?
> 
> Does the 101.07361 give a good indication of date of manufacture?
> ...



1,2: It is definitely a 12 inch swing machine. The distance between centers is a close approximation for the other half of the size. As I stated, mine is a 12x36, for what that's worth. I *think* that for a while, the Craftsman line had 12, 24, and 36 inch between centers. The "10D-247" is a casting number. It would reference an Atlas part (original manufacturer) that may well fit a number of machines. The "101.07361" is a part number for Craftsman, in this case a complete machine. It will indicate a date range only in when Sears sold that particular machine. As I stated, mine is a 101.27440, a later model that dates to the early 50s. Craftsman lathes were built by Atlas with an extra 1" above the bed. They are otherwise _virtually_ identical to the Atlas line.

3: I didn't see any serious vibration in the video. Such a judgement is highly personal. Having run it without the chuck, any vibration must come from a pulley out of balance. Or possibly the motor. . . A single phase machine doesn't run as smooth as a 3 phase does. I have retrofitted the original retrofit motor on mine. I used a 1/3 HP Baldor "Farm Duty" motor, simply because I like that motor. The original Craftsman motors (I have several) had a "flat pack" capacitor which is not a standard part. Finding a replacement is a hit or miss proposition, on a _good_ day. The simplest solution is to replace the motor with known, available parts. "V belts" are your call. I would recommend machine belts as opposed to automotive belts. Though in the past, I have run a nylon stocking in an emergency. Back in the early 70s in the Arizona desert. Ya do what ya gotta do. . .

4: The 8" chuck is at the high end. I have a 4" and a 5" 3 jaw and a 5" 4 jaw scroll chuck, as well as the 8" 4 jaw independent. I also have, through an adapter, a 2-1/2" scroll chuck and a 3" 4 jaw independent. But they are specific to my work with small models. Not normally seen on serious machines. The thing to watch for is as the jaws extend beyond the chuck body they don't come in contact with the bed frame. *Always* rotate the machine one full turn by hand before powering it up. A 5" is a good, safe chuck for generic work.

5: 1/4" tooling is my norm. 0.025 depth of cut (DOC) is about the maximum my machine will handle. Larger tools are more rigid, but the Craftsman itself isn't that rigid. I also use a lot of 3/16 and 1/8 tooling. As well as many I have ground out of old drills for specific uses. As a startup, 1/4" tooling is fine. Although you can go larger, there really is no need. Same for smaller tools, you'll try to do something and the tool is too large. That's when you'll start grinding your own.

As an aside, carbide tooling is great for removing large amounts of metal in a hurry. But for finer finish work you may fine tool steel to be more useful. Learn to grind tool steel tools. It will save your bacon on occasion.

*Edit: Afterthoughts*: 
The spindle pulleys have a couple of internal mating surfaces. There is one pulley, I don't recall which one, that has a setscrew that is actually an oil hole. Lube it well and replace the setscrew. Do not bottom the setscrew, just set it deep enough to close the hole. There is a "dog" that releases for running in back gears. It must be fully engaged or disengaged in use. And lastly there is another dog on the front, right, lower head stock that sets a 60 point hole circle for indexing. That dog must never be used when power is on the machine.

Lastly, it sounds like a burr or bad dirt, or a mismatch in the change gears. If there was a quick change box, I would say look there. I had to rebuild mine when I got it. Make sure the machine is out of gear.
.


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## Nogoingback (Sep 13, 2020)

Another possible source of vibration is worn bushings in the countershaft support.


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## wa5cab (Sep 13, 2020)

James,

Welcome to H-M and to the Atlas-Craftsman Forum.

Your lathe was made in late 1937, near the end of the second year that Atlas built 12" swing lathes for Sears.  It has the later "leaning" legs rather than the earlier rectangular ones as shown in the 1937 Craftsman Catalog.  101.07361 is the Sears model number which started out in 1936 as 101.07360 and ran up to 101.07363 in 1939 and 1940, after which it was discontinued.  It has babbit spindle bearings and a ball-type thrust bearing.  The only difference between the 101.0736x and the 101.0738x made each year is that the 0738x has back gears and 16 spindle speeds and the 101.0736x does not and has 8 spindle speeds.  Otherwise, on any given production day, the two models are the same.  One of the relatively easy upgrades to the 101.0736x is to add the back gears.  You are lucky in that your machine still has the two gear guards which are more often than not missing.  10D-247 is one of them

Also, in any given year, most of the parts used in the Craftsman 12" (other than countershaft parts. lead screw reversing parts and those that are different because of the larger swing, such as the headstock casting) are the same as those used in the 10" that year.  So many of the parts on a 12" parts list begin with 9, 10, 10A, 10D or 10F.  This is also true of a few of the Atlas Shaper and Mill.  So unlike GM, they didn't assign a new part number just because it was used in a more expensive model.

Unlike with the Atlas model numbers, Sears Atlas-Craftsman model numbers prior to about 1950 do not identify either the bed length or the maximum rated distance between centers.  So when identifying your machine, you need to include both the model number and 12xNN where NN is a choice of (prior to 1947) 18, 24, 30 or 36.  These correspond to bed lengths of 36/ 42, 48 and 54.

We do not have a parts manual for the 101.07361 but do have the flat version one on the 101.07381.  So use it.  The only difference is that yours doesn't have the back gears and in place of the large spindle gear has a large "toothless gear" with the 60 indexing holes in its right face mounted on the right end of the spindle. 

To answer your question about 1/4" tooling, the lantern type tool post that came with the Atlas 9", 10" and Atlas-built 12" is made for 3/8" square or rectangular tooling/cutters.  If you follow most of our recommendations and buy a good Quick Change Tool Post and cutter holders, the correct size for your machine is generally generically known as an AXA size.  Which mostly takes 3/8" square cutters.

Besides the parts manual, you should also obtain a copy of the general operating manual for the Atlas lathes which has the rather long title of "Manual Of Lathe Operations And Machinists Tables", or MOLO for short.  At any given time, there may be a dozen or more for sale on eBay.  However... the Atlas MOLO was printed or reprinted in most years between 1937 and 1988.   And there are ten different versions printed over the years (generally called V0 through V9).  Although the bulk of the information remained the same in the different versions over that 52 years, some of it did not.  And if for example you try to use a version 9 lubrication chart for your machine, it will not make any sense.  Worse, if you try to use any version threading chart other than V0 or V1, you won't be happy with the results.  The reason is that the change gear set changed in about 1939.  From 1939  and the Atlas 10F or the Sears 101.07362, 101.07382 and 101.07402 on, there is no 96T gear used.  And your machine uses two of them.  Naturally, V1 is very scarce and I have never even seen or heard of any V0.  And unfortunately, you would have to ask each seller who had not put a photo of the threading chart into his or her ad (and less than 1 percent of them do) whether or not the Threading Chart showed usage of a 96T gear or gears before you could know. 

Because some people do have the early machines, and because Clausing can't supply the early charts, I am going to stretch a point and put a copy of a V1 MOLO into Downloads and also into Files on the Atlas-Craftsman group on groups.io.


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 13, 2020)

Bi11Hudson said:


> Some other thoughts, I sorta think slow(er) these days.
> 
> 
> 1,2: It is definitely a 12 inch swing machine. The distance between centers is a close approximation for the other half of the size. As I stated, mine is a 12x36, for what that's worth. I *think* that for a while, the Craftsman line had 12, 24, and 36 inch between centers. The "10D-247" is a casting number. It would reference an Atlas part (original manufacturer) that may well fit a number of machines. The "101.07361" is a part number for Craftsman, in this case a complete machine. It will indicate a date range only in when Sears sold that particular machine. As I stated, mine is a 101.27440, a later model that dates to the early 50s. Craftsman lathes were built by Atlas with an extra 1" above the bed. They are otherwise _virtually_ identical to the Atlas line.
> ...



Thank you sir for your tips and insights

#3 - On the vibration, I guess I just "don't know what I don't know" I figured that was a decent amount of vibration, but it may not be for this machine.


I'll check out the pulleys

I was able to mess around with it some more this afternoon and get these results. First time I was able to make some chips.. so I'm happy. The power feed is handy...


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## mickri (Sep 13, 2020)

You are on your way.  There is a program called "lathe gears" that has been shared on this site.  It may help you with the gearing for your lathe.   Do a search and you should find it.

Since your lathe has been sitting for awhile it would be wise to clean any junk off of the babbit bearings before using your lathe to prevent any damage to the bearings.  Besides the places you oiled in your photo all of the gears and lead screws need lubrication also.  The MOLO can help you out with that including the proper lubricants to use.


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## wa5cab (Sep 13, 2020)

Bi11Hudson said:


> Some other thoughts, I sorta think slow(er) these days.
> 
> 1,2: It is definitely a 12 inch swing machine. The distance between centers is a close approximation for the other half of the size. As I stated, mine is a 12x36, for what that's worth. I *think* that for a while, the Craftsman line had 12, 24, and 36 inch between centers.
> 
> There is one pulley, I don't recall which one, that has a setscrew that is actually an oil hole. Lube it well and replace the setscrew. Do not bottom the setscrew, just set it deep enough to close the hole.



The 9" did until it ceased production and up until late 1947 the 10" and 12" came in 4 bed lengths, 36", 42",   48" and 54", which correspond to distance between centers of 18", 24", 30" and 36".  In late 1947/1948 the 36" and 48" beds ceased production.

The pulley with the set screw serving as an oil plug is the 4-step spindle cone pulley.  It should be tightened  snugly  but not tightly enough to force its way down and against the spindle.  The cone pulley must turn freely on the spindle whenever the direct drive pin is pulled out.  According to the lubrication instructions in the MOLO, the screw should be removed and three or four squirts of SAE20 put down the hole either monthly or before each usage of back gear.  There is a reminder about not over-tightening the oil plug in the Sticky Area above.


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 13, 2020)

@wa5cab thanks a million for the information! Very darn cool! 

@mickri thank you sir - I have the 23rd edition of the MOLO in a PDF that I'll look over!


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 14, 2020)

Hey yall, I figure it can't hurt to change out the V-belts... since they're truly aged and have been sitting around... it seems like this topic is hotly contested _(specifically on the classic v-belt vs link)_, so I'm asking this question at great risk... Do yall have recommendation on some good quality belts? _(type, manufacture, material)

On the above question is there a thread somewhere with this discussion topic that I can refer to? 


---_

Also, I have a case of 20W-50 motor oil that is brand new and I won't be using. Would this be suitable for general lathe lubrication?

---

And an update... I ordered a quick change AXA tool post. I'm stoked to get it in. My first project will be making a spindle square for my mill. Hoping to turn down a piece of steel for an interference fit into a chunk of aluminum.


---

Edit: I was reading this article on V-Belts - https://www.powertransmission.com/articles/0617/Guide_to_V-Belt_Selection_and_Replacement/

And they stated_ "As another example, replacing an older, classical V-belt drive with a newer, narrow profile notched V-belt made with an ethylene elastomer and aramid fiber tensile cords can yield up to 3x greater load carrying capacity while reducing the weight and size of the drive, relieving stress on shafts, bearings and other components."_

Thought that "sounded good"


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## mickri (Sep 14, 2020)

There was a thread that discussed the proper oils to use.  Modern oil for cars is better than nothing but it doesn't meet the specs for the oil called for in the manuals.  Same goes for chainsaw bar oil.  While anything is better than nothing the proper modern oil is AW68 hydraulic oil.  AW46 is also within spec.  I couldn't find AW68 in anything less that 5 gallons.  My local O'Riely's had AW46 by the gallon.  So that is what I am using on both the ways and to lubricate everything.  A gallon will last more than a lifetime.

Also don't use grease on the gears.  Chips will stick to the grease.


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## vocatexas (Sep 14, 2020)

Don't use motor oil to lube your lathe. Some motor oil additives will attack the brass/bronze. Some of the guys with lathes similar to yours will chime in, I'm sure. You can get the oils you need from a local oil jobber. If they don't carry them, they can order them. Usually ISO 32 or 46 for the bearings (think tractor hydraulic oil), and way oil for the slide ways. Way oil is fairly thick and sticky kind of like the old STP oil treatment,


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 14, 2020)

Awesome very good to know on the motor oil... It looks like the previous owner/user used a pretty thick, gray, grease like substance on all the gears. I'm thinking it may be worth my time to take it apart and clean all that off. It's filthy.,..
_
Edit: Sounds like I need to get some Vactra No 2 coming my way to cover most of my components. _


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## mickri (Sep 14, 2020)

It is always a good idea to give a lathe a thorough cleaning before use when it has been stored for awhile.  I removed and cleaned everything I could on my lathe.  Get it squeaky clean and then lube it up.  And keep it properly lubricated.  For example I thought that some of the gears on my lathe were pressed onto their shafts when in fact they were just stuck due to dried up grease.


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## Nogoingback (Sep 14, 2020)

Red Beard Ops said:


> Hey yall, I figure it can't hurt to change out the V-belts... since they're truly aged and have been sitting around... it seems like this topic is hotly contested _(specifically on the classic v-belt vs link)_, so I'm asking this question at great risk... Do yall have recommendation on some good quality belts? _(type, manufacture, material)
> 
> On the above question is there a thread somewhere with this discussion topic that I can refer to? _
> 
> ...



Here'a recent thread on that subject:








						A good source for belts
					

Good day folks.  I have a number of shop machines that have belts that are 20-40 years old and pretty worn.  I have a jointer that came with belts that really stink when the jointer runs for any length of time.  What is a good online source of quality belts?  What's the trick to buying the...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




The obvious advantage of link belts is that the spindle doesn't have to be taken apart to instal them, and assuming you can get
the correct size, I can't think of a reason not to use them.


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## wa5cab (Sep 14, 2020)

Three comments:

The correct and factory recommended oil for everything except the gear teeth and the ways is SAE 20 ND.  If you find the equivalent but with an ISO rating, either ISO 68 or ISO 46 cross to SAE 20.  With ISO 68 probably being preferred.  For the ways, use Way Oil, which differs mainly in clinging to the vertical surfaces better.

The proper lubricant for the gear teeth is grease, specifically one with a high temperature rating.  Most grease found in tubes at consumer grade Autoparts stores will be unsatisfactory because it will quickly liquefy and sling off.  The claim that you shouldn't use grease on the gears because it attracts and holds chips or shavings is, while partially true, apparently due to the results of operating the lathe without the gear covers provided but often lost or discarded.  So it is a case of one bad decision leading to another one.  SAE90W would be fine for the gears if the Atlas lathes were provided with an oil filled sump and possibly an oil pump.  However, they are not.

Not wishing to re-start the argument over link-belts versus V-belts, I will only point out that the lathe in question here has babbit bearings which require little effort to remove.  And that in any case, the owner needs to do that anyway for condition inspection of the bearings and journals and possible adjustment.


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 14, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> Three comments:
> 
> The correct and factory recommended oil for everything except the gear teeth and the ways is SAE 20 ND.  If you find the equivalent but with an ISO rating, either ISO 68 or ISO 46 cross to SAE 20.  With ISO 68 probably being preferred.  For the ways, use Way Oil, which differs mainly in clinging to the vertical surfaces better.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for the information, sir. Are these bearings easily replaceable and maybe carried by online suppliers (McMaster/Amazon/etc)? I'm just asking since if I'm going to be taking it apart... It may make sense to have some new bearings on hand.

Who knows... maybe I'll be lucky and they're just find based on Page 9 of MOLO_1973_V1 saying _"This type of bearing is being used universally in automobile main bearings and maintains its original accuracy and alignment under heavy loads.... No adjustment of the bearings should be necessary for hundreds of hours."_

Are there any items yall recommend having on hand when dissembling the spindle? How will I know a bearing is "bad"?


Side question: Would direct mounting the motor to the bench add rigidity in the system?

@Nogoingback - Thanks for the link to the belt convo!


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## wa5cab (Sep 14, 2020)

James,

If your machine had Timken tapered roller bearings, they would be replaceable.  But it has babbit bearings that were poured in place.  There is a brief description of them in the MOLO including how after pouring they were line bored in place.  Although two or three people over the years have claimed to be going to re-pour theirs, I have yet to see a machine that was claimed to have had that done.  As the discussion in the early MOLO's says, they all came from the factory with a 0.010" 5-part laminated shim under each of the bearing cap screws.  General procedure is to set up a dial indicator over each bearing cap in turn.  A 3 foot long piece of 3.4" diameter round bar is stuck through the spindle and after pressing down on the bar and zeroing the indicator, pulling up on the bar and noting the reading.  Then one or more laminations is peeled off of the rear and/or front shim packs until with all four of the cap screws tightened, the dial indicator movements is reduced to 0.001" or a little less without locking the spindle when the screws are tightened.  If your initial test indicates that shim layerss should be removed, remove the bearing cap and shim packs and mic the pack thickness.  Do not mix up where each shim pack came from.  If both of each pair are the same thickness, remove a layer from the rear one first.  If the rear pack is thinner than the front one, then the first removal should be from the front one.  Read the text in the MOLO on the subject first.


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## Nogoingback (Sep 14, 2020)

And, if you're interested, an excellent video on how bearings are poured, just in case you feel like giving it a try...


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 14, 2020)

Nogoingback said:


> And, if you're interested, an excellent video on how bearings are poured, just in case you feel like giving it a try...



Wow... That is freaking awesome... Really happy you shared that because I had no idea how those were done.


----------



## Red Beard Ops (Sep 15, 2020)

A couple of things:

1.) The question I had about direct mounting the motor to the table doesn't make sense after looking at the arm on my machine... so disregard.
2.) Anyone Use cogged v-belts for the drive portion (since the motor pulleys are kinda small)? How about narrow profile belts?
3.) What are the idea belts for this machine 1/2 x 3/8'? Lengths?


4.) After all the conversation we've had here and playing around this machine... I'm fairly confident that I'm going to do a "full refurbish".... or at least take it all apart, clean it all, re-lube it, wire brush & re-paint the castings, and repair my motor mount... it deserves that.

5.) After reading page 14 of the MOLO... I came upon this question. Should the "tension arm" be in *this* (see red arrow in attached pic) position even when the machine is running (_that is with the stop on the post)_?... I've been running it with the weight of the motor fully supported by the belt... I think that was the way this machine has been run in the past and that the belt is too long (32''). By turning the handle (screwing it in or out) I think I'd be able to adjust belt tension with the stop seated in the post?

Thanks,
James

Edit: on Point #5.....yep... been doing it wrong. This poor machine. I would imagine that could add to the little bit of vibration I was seeing too. Looks like I need a much shorter belt. This video answers that question visually.


----------



## Red Beard Ops (Sep 15, 2020)

As far as lubrication. I'm looking at ordering the following unless yall have better recommendations or prices!... These quantities seems larger than I need for sure.

Mobil ISO68 SAE20 Hydraulic Oil for general lathe oiling - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PM9KTC8/ref=crt_ewc_img_dp_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Timken High Temp Grease for gears - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00036BUGO/ref=crt_ewc_img_dp_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Vactra #2 for ways - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A3UXP54/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2OXMHTADGRD5V&psc=1

Edit: Do yall often replace the wicks in the oilers?

Edit #2: Would some 30 weight or way oil suffice for the gears instead of the grease if you oiled them more frequently?


----------



## wa5cab (Sep 15, 2020)

Re: Post # 26
1.  OK

2.  I don't think that a cogged belt would hurt anything.  However, my 3996 is 40 years old and is on its second motor belt.  So the smaller pulley groove probably isn't too small.

3.  The correct belts seem to be 4L350 for the motor belt and 4L310 for the spindle belt.  I say "seem to be" because the parts list gives the Atlas part number only so the two numbers were arrived at by asking numerous people what was found on their machine.  More than 90% either reported those numbers or said they had something else but it was either too short or too long.  Fortunate,y, unlike the 10" Horizontal and the 6" Type 2 and Type 3  countershafts , the 12" ones are always in the same position since they are attached to the bed instead of the bench.

4.  OK.  This would then be the best time to add the back gears, or at least the two mounting brackets.

5.  Never depend upon the motor weight to tension either belt.  The motor should be rigidly mounted by tightening the 9-42 Lock Nut onto the L6-267 Motor Lock Bolt.  And the spindle belt should be tight when the two collars on the tension rod straddle the L3-108 Lock.  To demonstrate why the motor should be locked into place, try some interrupted cut like turning a piece of hex stock to round.

Re: Post #27

The oils and grease listed should be OK.

Unless you live in a very dry and dusty climate, the felt plugs in the oil cups over the spindle bearings should be good for 20 or 30 years.  Their purpose is two-fold. to delay the speed at which oil drips through, and to prevent dust and swarf from getting to the bearings.

#2.  No.  Although way oil would be better than SAE 30, both will sling off pretty quickly, leaving the gear teeth dry.  And as I indicated yesterday, the common excuse for not using grease is BS.


----------



## wa5cab (Sep 15, 2020)

Incidentally, up until sometime in the 1950's, the factory was recommending SAE 10 oil.  Then they changed the recommendation to SAE 20, retroactive.  So anything printed around the time that your lathe was made will still say SAE 10.  Disregard this.


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 15, 2020)

@wa5cab Thank you greatly sir!

#4 the back gears are installed on this machine, but I haven't used them yet.

#5 I will fix this issue! I'm happy I noticed that in the MOLO before attempting to use this guy heavily. That belt must have been changed out a long time ago... and they must have used an oversize belt they had on hand. I'm surprised to see the 31'' belt ( 4L310) listed since the measurement I took while the handle was in the saddle is ~29''... I guess there is some wiggle room here. I took my measurement by running a piece of 1/4'' cord over the pulleys then taking it out and measuring it. 

I was able to find some ISO68 SAE 20 oil from Home Depot in a reasonable quantity... https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-S...ergent-Oil-Air-Compressor-018-0079H/205183905


Thanks a million for the information, sir.


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## Nogoingback (Sep 15, 2020)

Red Beard Ops said:


> Edit #2: Would some 30 weight or way oil suffice for the gears instead of the grease if you oiled them more frequently?



As wa5cab said, oil is not desirable for the gear train.  Greases made for open gears are sticky, so they won't run off or fling off.

As far a v-belts go, I use a cogged v-belt made by Continental on my DP.  It runs smoothly, but it's sized the same as any other 
v-belt.


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 15, 2020)

Are the felt oil wicks just normal chunks of felt? I have a good deal of felt on hand that I use for etching my maker's mark. Might as well replace them! I'm sure they haven't ever been replaced!... LOL

Edit: On the oil... Any ISO 68~ 20wt non detergent would do right? Is there anything else I should look out for? Does it matter if it's a synthetic blend?


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## wa5cab (Sep 16, 2020)

OK, if the back gears are present, the original owner must have bought the 101.07361 one year and the next  bought the add-on back gear set.  So the nameplate model number remains the same but the actual model number becomes 101.07381.  I am carrying it in the database as the current model number, not the nameplate number, with a note in the Notes1 field.

On how to measure two or three pulleys and get an accurate idea or the V-belt required, you have the right idea but missed one detail that will result in your getting a belt too short for the application.  And that is that the belt length for both FHP belts and multiple V-belts are measured around the outside to the belt, not the inside.  Using a 1/4" diameter cord will result in an error of more than an inch because the cord will run around the pulleys at the bottom of the V-groove and it needs to be running around the outside of the groove.  Or in simpler terms, you need to use a cord of 1/2" diameter or if you have it, a 1/2" wide tape measure, which will be direct reading.

Are the two l6-106 Collars pinned to the L6-104 tension rod or do they each have a set screw?  None of the parts manuals show this detail.


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 16, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> OK, if the back gears are present, the original owner must have bought the 101.07361 one year and the next  bought the add-on back gear set.  So the nameplate model number remains the same but the actual model number becomes 101.07381.  I am carrying it in the database as the current model number, not the nameplate number, with a note in the Notes1 field.
> 
> On how to measure two or three pulleys and get an accurate idea or the V-belt required, you have the right idea but missed one detail that will result in your getting a belt too short for the application.  And that is that the belt length for both FHP belts and multiple V-belts are measured around the outside to the belt, not the inside.  Using a 1/4" diameter cord will result in an error of more than an inch because the cord will run around the pulleys at the bottom of the V-groove and it needs to be running around the outside of the groove.  Or in simpler terms, you need to use a cord of 1/2" diameter or if you have it, a 1/2" wide tape measure, which will be direct reading.
> 
> Are the two l6-106 Collars pinned to the L6-104 tension rod or do they each have a set screw?  None of the parts manuals show this detail.



Well hot darn... I went and remeasured and it's right on the 4L350 and 4L310.... The belt currently on the spindle is way too large... I really hope this machine wasn't run for too many hours with the full weight of the motor on that belt.

Good to know about the model numbers! 

I don't think I have the appropriate exploded view parts list. So I'm not sure what items you're looking at. (L6-106 and L6-104)... but I think you're talking about the stop on the tension rod. It's pinned. I've attached some pics.


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## wa5cab (Sep 16, 2020)

The felt plugs (which were added sometime after 1957 so they are not shown in the older manuals or lists) are medium density wool felt.  If you need something else from Clausing, you may as well buy them from them, as they are cheap.  Arch punches don't work well on felt.

Synthetic oil is OK if of the proper viscosity.  But don't use anything made for use in an internal combustion engine and advertised as being High Detergent.  Some of the additives may actually be beneficial but one or some are designed to absorb moisture from the atmosphere and should not be used in or on anything that does not get hot enough to boil the water off.  Such as a lathe.  They will cause rust to form in the long run.

And no one has mentioned it but as it says in the lube instructions, most of the lubrication points should be serviced every time that the machine (or function (such as the back gears) is used.  Those should be done about monthly or when you use them.


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## wa5cab (Sep 16, 2020)

Atlas didn't start making exploded view parts lists until circa 1945.  The earliest 12" model with one done by them is 101.07304.  I have done one on the 101.07402 and 101.07383 and have an incomplete one on 101.07401.  I haven't done the others.  But yes, you have ID'd the parts correctly.  

As the only difference between the ones for the 101.0738x and 101.0736x is the presence or absence of the back gears, I may pr may not ever do one for any of the 101.0736x.  Especially since yours has been upgraded to 101.07381 status.  Yours also has the cast change gear cover and the sloping legs that strictly speaking belong on the next model, anyway.


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 16, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> The felt plugs (which were added sometime after 1957 so they are not shown in the older manuals or lists) are medium density wool felt.  If you need something else from Clausing, you may as well buy them from them, as they are cheap.  Arch punches don't work well on felt.
> 
> Synthetic oil is OK if of the proper viscosity.  But don't use anything made for use in an internal combustion engine and advertised as being High Detergent.  Some of the additives may actually be beneficial but one or some are designed to absorb moisture from the atmosphere and should not be used in or on anything that does not get hot enough to boil the water off.  Such as a lathe.  They will cause rust to form in the long run.
> 
> And no one has mentioned it but as it says in the lube instructions, most of the lubrication points should be serviced every time that the machine (or function (such as the back gears) is used.  Those should be done about monthly or when you use them.



Thank you very much sir for the information! As always.

Very good to know about the felt... mine is acrylic 

This is the oil I plan on using it's ISO 68 non-detergent - https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-S...ergent-Oil-Air-Compressor-018-0079H/205183905


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## wa5cab (Sep 16, 2020)

That looks like it should be OK.


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## ARC-170 (Sep 17, 2020)

Welcome! I have a similar lathe (101.07403), 12x36. I took the whole thing apart and cleaned and lubed it. It was fun and I learned how the whole machine worked. I also bought belt guards. I have a restoration thread here. In case that doesn't work, here's the whole link:
(https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/arc-170s-craftsman-101-07403-lathe-restoration-thread.74024/

*6. (are we on 6? Let's just say yes! Ha!) WAY & BEARING LUBE*
I use Mobil Vactra Oil #2 Way Oil for the ways and bearings. You can get it at littlemachineshop.com. Your machine will drip oil. Keep in mind it will leak under the machine. Mine is mounted on a steel top with a wood underlayment and I should probably look and see how much oil is showing. Fill the cups every time you use the machine. The one nearest the chuck needs filling the most.

*7. GREASE*
I use Lubriplate Gear Shield Extra Heavy on my gears. Comes in a spray can. I got it at my FLAPS. I have covers and it flings off a little, but not much.

*8. PAINT *
If you want to paint your machine, Krylon Regal Blue is supposed to be the closest color to the original blue. It is my understanding that Atlas painted most of the lathes they made for Craftsman blue, while theirs were all dark gray. For some reason mine is sparkly green. I think it was painted in the 70's while under the influence. I just kept it the same.

*9. OTHER THOUGHTS*
a. This is not a very stiff machine, so take light cuts.
b. I get some funky patterns and sounds when using the auto feed. I think there is something loose or bent, so I'm currently chasing that. The machine still makes functional parts, though. Turn a rod with the auto-feed and see what happens.
c. I used Simple Green, kerosene and elbow grease to clean everything. The old grease tends to dry and get crusty, so parts seem like they are stuck, but they are just "glued" together with gunk.

BTW: You picked up and carried your lathe?! I'm impressed! I had to use an engine hoist.

Have fun!


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## wa5cab (Sep 18, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> *8. PAINT *
> If you want to paint your machine, Krylon Regal Blue is supposed to be the closest color to the original blue. It is my understanding that Atlas painted most of the lathes they made for Craftsman blue, while theirs were all dark gray. For some reason mine is sparkly green. I think it was painted in the 70's while under the influence. I just kept it the same.


Prior to 1957, Sears had Atlas change the color about every 3 or 4 years.  Blue was common.  So was green.  Gold was used during Sears' 50th Anniversary year.  And maybe a couple of other colors.  Around 1957, Atlas changed the color of both their machines (which had been dark machinery gray) and the ones that they made for Sears to Machinery Gray.  The 12" machines remained that color through the end in 1981.  But almost all of the MK 2 6" were painted blue except for the first few hundred.

And of course, some recent restorers may have re-painted them in most any color.


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 21, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> Welcome! I have a similar lathe (101.07403), 12x36. I took the whole thing apart and cleaned and lubed it. It was fun and I learned how the whole machine worked. I also bought belt guards. I have a restoration thread here. In case that doesn't work, here's the whole link:
> (https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/arc-170s-craftsman-101-07403-lathe-restoration-thread.74024/
> 
> *6. (are we on 6? Let's just say yes! Ha!) WAY & BEARING LUBE*
> ...



Thank you very much for the information, sir! Sorry for the delayed response... was out of town. I'll peruse your thread for sure!


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 21, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> Prior to 1957, Sears had Atlas change the color about every 3 or 4 years.  Blue was common.  So was green.  Gold was used during Sears' 50th Anniversary year.  And maybe a couple of other colors.  Around 1957, Atlas changed the color of both their machines (which had been dark machinery gray) and the ones that they made for Sears to Machinery Gray.  The 12" machines remained that color through the end in 1981.  But almost all of the MK 2 6" were painted blue except for the first few hundred.
> 
> And of course, some recent restorers may have re-painted them in most any color.



Very cool! I was eyeing this royal blue from rust-oleum since I need to go to HD soon anyways. Seems like a decent match... 









						Rust-Oleum Professional 15 oz. High Performance Enamel Gloss Royal Blue Spray Paint (6-Pack) 7527838 - The Home Depot
					

Rust-Oleum Professional High Performance Enamel Sprays provide superior coverage, hiding and corrosion protection. They can be applied to metal, wood, concrete and masonry. Designed to resist abrasion,



					www.homedepot.com


----------



## matthewsx (Sep 21, 2020)

Tractor Supply has this for about $30
for five gallons.






						VP Racing Fuels J20A Plus Utility Tractor Fluid 5 gal., VP2040014 at Tractor Supply Co.
					

Buy Great Customer Service VP Racing Fuels J20A Plus Utility Tractor Fluid 5 gal., VP2040014 in the Hydraulic Fluids category at Tractor Su




					www.tractorsupply.com
				




I’m sure there is other stuff that may be better but I’m pretty sure this will be fine.

John


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 25, 2020)

Well tear down started today... and I found my first broken piece!


I'm not sure what number I'm on so I'm going to move on to letters!....



A.) Broken Piece - I'm guessing someone was a little rough with this guy, because I was not applying barely any force when taking this apart and it came out in pieces. How do yall recommend me repairing this piece? I think it's aluminum. Can I braze it? 

B.) This lever doesn't come off right? It looks like it's peened on there!


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## ARC-170 (Sep 25, 2020)

I think you're on #10 (#9 was "OTHER THOUGHTS"), so let's say A should be 10 and B should be 11. You're gonna run outta letters real quick! AMHIK. BTW. I really don't care what you use, just trying to be helpful! 

11/B. My lever has a pin through it. Maybe yours does too, but it's hidden behind the handle? Or, yours IS peened on. I can't see it very well. I left anything on that I couldn't easily or obviously remove and it still got clean.


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## wa5cab (Sep 26, 2020)

A.  No, the gear case is not aluminum.  It is Zamak V, which a Zinc based die casting alloy.  Zamak parts are not usually considered as being repairable.  

B.  The lever is either pressed or peened on at the factory.  If a PO replaced it, it could have a groove pin installed.  But in either case, if there is nothing wrong with it, don't attempt to remove it.  And BTW, the half-nut assembly will install with the actuating lever in either of two positions (if it was replaced by a PO, assuming that he/she installed it properly) , with the lever to the left as shown in your photo and to the right.  The latter one is correct.


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 26, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> A.  No, the gear case is not aluminum.  It is Zamak V, which a Zinc based die casting alloy.  Zamak parts are not usually considered as being repairable.
> 
> B.  The lever is either pressed or peened on at the factory.  If a PO replaced it, it could have a groove pin installed.  But in either case, if there is nothing wrong with it, don't attempt to remove it.  And BTW, the half-nut assembly will install with the actuating lever in either of two positions (if it was replaced by a PO, assuming that he/she installed it properly) , with the lever to the left as shown in your photo and to the right.  The latter one is correct.


A (continued) - Think I could try to braze it with aluminum brazing rod?  

(interestingly enough I didn't see or feel any issues with operation... even with the broken piece in there..)

B - Thank you sir! I won't mess with it.


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## wa5cab (Sep 26, 2020)

A  Well, you've certainly got nothing to lose but a little time!  It certainly isn't usable as-is.


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 26, 2020)

Well.... that didn't work. The ZAMAK melted way before I could get it all hot enough for the aluminum brazing rod. 

I imagine finding a replacement part here is going to be difficult...


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 26, 2020)

Thinking back over the results/failure.... I should of just JB-Welded this connection. 

And I should of looked up the melting point of ZAMAK... I may be able to figure something out with fabricating a repair here, but it won't be as easy now. lol


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 26, 2020)

Looks like a guy on ebay is making some replacements out of aluminum... I may try and steel his design.

They have a used one on there for 99$ too. Man that feels expensive.

Edit: How precise do the holes in this piece need to be? Could I just drill them (without using a reamer)? I should be able to fabricate this on my mill.


Edit #2: This guy sells one with an aluminum case and steel gears - http://www.mymachineshop.net/product_p/10021.htm


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## wa5cab (Sep 27, 2020)

Hee hee, I'll refrain from saying that I told you so.  The mounting hole diameter and/or slot width are not critical.  As cast or drilled or milled is good enough.  The diameter of the shaft holes on the other hand should be accurate.

Joel does good work, too.


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 27, 2020)

C.) Any advice on getting this guy off without damaging anything? It's tight and I'm nervous.


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 27, 2020)

I figured I'd share some of my progress on this restoration:

*
This is how torn down I currently have it:*




*I've been taking apart one component at a time... and keeping the hardware separate in boxes so I don't get anything mixed up:*



*

On the cast iron pieces I've been laboriously getting them down to the bare cast iron... taping them up, stuffing all the holes, hitting them with primer, then royal blue Rust-oleum enamel.*






*Once I have the pieces painted for a component, I wire wheel and clean all the hard ware *_(every single piece is getting cleaned, de-greased, made non-filthy, etc...)_*, lightly coat with 20WT oil, then reassemble. Once re-assembled I put it off to the side to wait till completion of the project!*





_
Side note... I know it's not original, but I plan on coming back and hitting the peaks of all the raised letters and numbers on this machine with black... cause I think it will look slick _


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## mickri (Sep 27, 2020)

On the piece you can't get off.  I looked at the parts list for a 101.07403 lathe which appears to be similar to your lathe.  This is a stud that screws into the headstock housing.  There might be a nut on the inside but I don't think so.  No nut showed on the parts diagram that I looked at.  I would squirt PB Blaster between the housing and the arm and also on the inside of the housing on the end of the stud.  It could be rusted in place.  I would just leave it alone rather that risk breaking the stud or worse breaking the housing.


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## Red Beard Ops (Sep 30, 2020)

It actually came off easier than I thought with the "right tool".... little penetrating oil and a socket.




There are some castings that are not already painted blue... And I was wondering If I should leave them alone, paint them gray, or just paint blue. A good example of what I'm talking about are the castings holding on the back gears.... I guess it won't hurt to paint them. Just some thoughts. lol


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## wa5cab (Oct 1, 2020)

Glad that you managed to get it broken loose.  Leaving it in place would have complicated the paint job.  

What color are the Back Gear Brackets?  Dark Machinery Gray?  Those two brackets remained the same on the Atlas 10" and the Sears 12" models AFAIK from 1936 until 1957.  Supply must have run out of the blue ones on the day that you machine was assembled.  I would go ahead and mask and paint them blue.


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 1, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> Glad that you managed to get it broken loose.  Leaving it in place would have complicated the paint job.
> 
> What color are the Back Gear Brackets?  Dark Machinery Gray?  Those two brackets remained the same on the Atlas 10" and the Sears 12" models AFAIK from 1936 until 1957.  Supply must have run out of the blue ones on the day that you machine was assembled.  I would go ahead and mask and paint them blue.



I'm still trying to figure out how to take the back gears apart... hahaha


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## vtcnc (Oct 1, 2020)

Red Beard Ops said:


> I'm still trying to figure out how to take the back gears apart... hahaha
> 
> View attachment 338982
> 
> ...



If I pulled this from the correct manual, it appears that they are secured on the shaft with a keyed bushing and collar?


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 1, 2020)

vtcnc said:


> If I pulled this from the correct manual, it appears that they are secured on the shaft with a keyed bushing and collar?
> 
> View attachment 338983




Thanks man. Is that 10-254 handle a press fit?


Also what is a "eccentric"? (I'm not sure how to get the 10-252 off... it's in the way of me sliding off the 10-243 gear. 



Interestingly enough the person who installed this on my machine must have lost or thrown away the 10-259 pins. 



Lastly are the oil ports on the castings around the shaft (L4-245L and 10-245R) supposed to have set screws in the oilers on top? They are threaded, but mine are just open threaded holes... I'm guessing there are oil cups that fit in there?


----------



## vtcnc (Oct 1, 2020)

Red Beard Ops said:


> Thanks man. Is that 10-254 handle a press fit?


I doubt it. Likely a threaded shaft.



Red Beard Ops said:


> Also what is a "eccentric"? (I'm not sure how to get the 10-252 off... it's in the way of me sliding off the 10-243 gear.


An eccentric is a shaft with an off-center hole. Think of it as a cam. When you turn the handle, the eccentric will roll the shaft around its outer diameter and engage the backgear with the spindle. Can you post some more upclose pics of the ends of the assembly? I believe 10-250 is inserted into the eccentrics on either end.



Red Beard Ops said:


> Interestingly enough the person who installed this on my machine must have lost or thrown away the 10-259 pins.


Check the back of your headstock. If missing there, then yes, sadly I think you are correct. Those are an easy and necessary replacement though, you will want alignement of the backgear assembly with your spindle to ensure you have good gear meshing.



Red Beard Ops said:


> Lastly are the oil ports on the castings around the shaft (L4-245L and 10-245R) supposed to have set screws in the oilers on top? They are threaded, but mine are just open threaded holes... I'm guessing there are oil cups that fit in there?


Or needle oilers. I don't see either on the print. While it is possible that empty threaded holes were always there, those fill up with chips, dust and dirt. Likely those are missing whatever was there previously. Perhaps @wa5cab can provide some insight on what is supposed to be there.


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 1, 2020)

Yeah, if I can get this casing (10-245R) off without having to removed the eccentric than I may just leave it all together. That handle in there sure does seem tight. I may try to heat the shaft it's screwed into.


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## vtcnc (Oct 1, 2020)

Red Beard Ops said:


> Yeah, if I can get this casing (10-245R) off without having to removed the eccentric than I may just leave it all together. That handle in there sure does seem tight. I may try to heat the shaft it's screwed into.


In image 3281, appears to be a tapered pin or roll pin going through the eccentric? Has that been removed?


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 1, 2020)

vtcnc said:


> In image 3281, appears to be a tapered pin or roll pin going through the eccentric? Has that been removed?


That doesn't go all the way though. From what I can tell is that is a dead end. No set screw. I think it may be designed for a hook wrench?


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## vtcnc (Oct 1, 2020)

You might want to watch this YT by MyHeap. It isn't a 100% match but it is pretty darn close.

MyHeap - Dissassembly of Atlas Backgear


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## vtcnc (Oct 1, 2020)

Red Beard Ops said:


> That doesn't go all the way though. From what I can tell is that is a dead end. No set screw. I think it may be designed for a hook wrench?


Look closely. It may have been ground and blended in on the other side. That hole doesn't make sense otherwise


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 1, 2020)

vtcnc said:


> Look closely. It may have been ground and blended in on the other side. That hole doesn't make sense otherwise



Yep, you were right. It was a pin. Thanks for the video too!


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## wa5cab (Oct 1, 2020)

First, the tapped holes in the tops of the two brackets are for attaching the belt cover bracket on some lathes.  Remember that the bracket design dates from 1936.  If the belt cover on your lathe is not attached there, just disregard them.

It should not be necessary to remove any of the parts from the right side of the 10-250 shaft, including the rod and knob.  Everything should come off of the shaft to the left.  After removing the back gear sub-assembly from the headstock, the L-245L Bracket should slide off of the 10-252 Eccentric, along with the 10-167 wave washer and after loosening the set screw, the 10-253 Collar.  Match-mark the shaft and eccentric with a felt tipped pen and then remove the tapered pin from the eccentric and shaft and remove the eccentric from the shaft.  Note that the pin will only come out one way, so ID the small end and drive from that end.  Slide the back gears off of the shaft.  Note that none of the parts drawings show how the two gears are keyed to the 10-248 Sleeve.  You might report that.


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 1, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> First, the tapped holes in the tops of the two brackets are for attaching the belt cover bracket on some lathes.  Remember that the bracket design dates from 1936.  If the belt cover on your lathe is not attached there, just disregard them.
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove any of the parts from the right side of the 10-250 shaft, including the rod and knob.  Everything should come off of the shaft to the left.  After removing the back gear sub-assembly from the headstock, the L-245L Bracket should slide off of the 10-252 Eccentric, along with the 10-167 wave washer and after loosening the set screw, the 10-253 Collar.  Match-mark the shaft and eccentric with a felt tipped pen and then remove the tapered pin from the eccentric and shaft and remove the eccentric from the shaft.  Note that the pin will only come out one way, so ID the small end and drive from that end.  Slide the back gears off of the shaft.  Note that none of the parts drawings show how the two gears are keyed to the 10-248 Sleeve.  You might report that.
> 
> If necessary



I was looking around to get some oil cups... but gosh darn these guys are expensive!









						McMaster-Carr
					

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.




					www.mcmaster.com


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## wa5cab (Oct 1, 2020)

Most Americans have little idea what commercial or industrial quality equipment costs today because most of what they buy comes from China or nearby countries.  Your lathe, if sold new today would probably list for $5000.  At least according to one on-line calculator.   However, I ran the same calculator against the cost of my first Land Rover in 1969 and the sixth one in 2013 and came up with a figure about 1/3 of actual.  So go figure...  At least the sixth one is faster and more comfortable than the first one.


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 3, 2020)

I'm happy to see that these bearings look to be in good shape!


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 3, 2020)

Does anyone have an exploded view of the drive pullies on the swing arm? I think I could be missing some pieces.


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## wa5cab (Oct 3, 2020)

Yes, they do look pretty good.  How about the journal areas on the spindle?


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## wa5cab (Oct 3, 2020)

I think that you will find what you are looking for in Downloads.  But for simple financial reasons, Access to Downloads requires Donor status.


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 3, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> Yes, they do look pretty good.  How about the journal areas on the spindle?



Journals look pretty good.


When installing the back gears I find that they feel "tight" when trying to use them (after tightening down the castings). The more I tighten the castings, the harder is is to throw the lever. Is this normal?


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## wa5cab (Oct 4, 2020)

I assume that the "castings" that you are referring to are the left and right counter shaft mounting brackets There should be a stack of shims between the brackets and the headstock casting.  The "official" reason for the shim packs is to let you adjust the back gear tooth mesh.  Ideally there should be the same number of shims in each stack.   But if the tolerance build-up happens to place the counter-shaft at a slight angle to the spindle then you would compensate by having one more shim under one bracket than under the other.  Or unlikely but possibly two more.  So the first thing to do is to count the shims in each stack.  If one has more than the other, perhaps you switched the stacks when you assembled the back gears.  Try switching the stacks.  you will either improve the "feel" or make it worse.  

Torque the two bolts to about 25 lb-ft.  There should be a slight clearance between the teeth of the two mating pairs of gears with everything tight.  Cut a strip of 20 pound printer paper and try to feed it through the gear teeth by turning the spindle by hand with the direct drive pin pulled out and the back gears engaged.  If one strip feeds through each pair but two is tight, the mesh is OK.  If engaging the gears is still too tight, loosen one of the bolts and check the difficulty in engaging.  It should either get better or not change.  If no change, re-torque that bolt and loosen the other one.  The one that improves when loose probably needs an additional shim.


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## matthewsx (Oct 4, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> I think that you will find what you are looking for in Downloads.  But for simple financial reasons, Access to Downloads requires Donor status.


This place is an awesome resource and ten bones is a small price for access to the downloads. I upped my membership to gold this year  

John


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 4, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> I assume that the "castings" that you are referring to are the left and right counter shaft mounting brackets There should be a stack of shims between the brackets and the headstock casting.  The "official" reason for the shim packs is to let you adjust the back gear tooth mesh.  Ideally there should be the same number of shims in each stack.   But if the tolerance build-up happens to place the counter-shaft at a slight angle to the spindle then you would compensate by having one more shim under one bracket than under the other.  Or unlikely but possibly two more.  So the first thing to do is to count the shims in each stack.  If one has more than the other, perhaps you switched the stacks when you assembled the back gears.  Try switching the stacks.  you will either improve the "feel" or make it worse.
> 
> Torque the two bolts to about 25 lb-ft.  There should be a slight clearance between the teeth of the two mating pairs of gears with everything tight.  Cut a strip of 20 pound printer paper and try to feed it through the gear teeth by turning the spindle by hand with the direct drive pin pulled out and the back gears engaged.  If one strip feeds through each pair but two is tight, the mesh is OK.  If engaging the gears is still too tight, loosen one of the bolts and check the difficulty in engaging.  It should either get better or not change.  If no change, re-torque that bolt and loosen the other one.  The one that improves when loose probably needs an additional shim.



Thank you sir, sounds like I need some more shims... There is only one shim per side.


This is where I'm at with the re-build:




And this is my attempt at a "10-F11"... It's not pretty and I made some major mistakes, that I had to repair to make functional.. but I think it will get the job done once I finish it up.


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## wa5cab (Oct 5, 2020)

That looks pretty good.  You appear to have made the tabs with the three mounting holes thicker.  You will need to use three mounting screws that are about 1/4" longer,  .  And I would recommend using flat washers under both the bolt heads and the nuts.  And a drop of Blue Locktite in the nuts.

On the back gear subject, confirm that the two shims are both the same thickness.  Try loosening the two bracket bolts one at a time.  It just doesn't make sense if you re-assembled the same parts in the same way that it should be misaligned now but wasn't before.


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 5, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> That looks pretty good.  You appear to have made the tabs with the three mounting holes thicker.  You will need to use three mounting screws that are about 1/4" longer,  .  And I would recommend using flat washers under both the bolt heads and the nuts.  And a drop of Blue Locktite in the nuts.
> 
> On the back gear subject, confirm that the two shims are both the same thickness.  Try loosening the two bracket bolts one at a time.  It just doesn't make sense if you re-assembled the same parts in the same way that it should be misaligned now but wasn't before.



Thanks for the tips! Yeah, it was tight before being taken apart. I don't think I received the tool shimmed correctly. I was thinking of getting some 0.002'' shim stock and going to town.


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## wa5cab (Oct 6, 2020)

That sounds like a good idea.  Gear teeth too tight (needs more shims) would also make the gears difficult to engage.


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 6, 2020)

Well it's not pretty... Had to improvise a few times... but it's on there! And it works!

I'll attached the PDF template I made too.


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## wa5cab (Oct 7, 2020)

Looks good.  Once you change the mounting screws, it should work fine.


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 11, 2020)

Hey guys, I tried out the power feed for the first time today after re-assembling it. It seems a little loud and I wanted verification that this is normal.


00:00 - Running Without Feed Engaged 
00:15 - Feed Engaged







_Note: It sounds about the same as it did before I tore down the system. 

Note 2: I have applied some high temp grease from Timken to these gears and verified that they are snugged up. _

Thanks,
RBO


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## wa5cab (Oct 11, 2020)

It sounds as though one of the gears has either a bad tooth or excessive run-out (wobble).  Remove the gears one at a time, beginning with the screw gear.  To simulate the lead screw load, hold a piece of wood against the teeth of the last remaining gear in the train with moderate force.  Ignore any noise that the block and gear teeth make.


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 15, 2020)

For the sake of anyone searching these forms in the future... The end product of this restoration can be found on this thread - https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/atlas-craftsman-12-metal-lathe-restoration-1937.87656/


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## yendor (Oct 16, 2020)

Just for Kicks I might paint a white DOT on each of the gears than run it to see if the sound matches with one of them as it rotates in time with the dot motion.
It might be hard to see but worth a try.


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 16, 2020)

Does anyone happen to know the dimensions of this spring for my 12'' lathe? _(I realize this isn't the appropriate exploded view from my lathe)


_


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## wa5cab (Oct 16, 2020)

I don't, but I would recommend you try Clausing first.  Because to replace that spring, you need to know three dimensions, not just one or two.  Besides the length and the diameter of the spring, you must also know the diameter of the wire that the spring was made from.


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## Red Beard Ops (Oct 19, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> I don't, but I would recommend you try Clausing first.  Because to replace that spring, you need to know three dimensions, not just one or two.  Besides the length and the diameter of the spring, you must also know the diameter of the wire that the spring was made from.



Thanks for the tip. Clausing got back to me with this (putting it here for future reference)


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