# Best machine for a begginer.



## Stemy77 (Nov 12, 2014)

I would like to buy a mill for my garage to start doing a little machine work, what would be the best setup to get to start off on? Any help or suggestions would be great. Thanks.


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## Uglydog (Nov 12, 2014)

Stemy77 said:


> I would like to buy a mill for my garage to start doing a little machine work, what would be the best setup to get to start off on? Any help or suggestions would be great. Thanks.



Lots of options.
We will need to know some data:
1. How large of work do you anticipate milling?
2. What do you have available for electrical? 110/120v, 208/240v, 480v, 1phase, 3phase? 
3. What space limitations/footprint do you have?
4. Are you into "vintage" and may need work (that describes me well), or do you prefer new stuff?
5. How are you set for moving machines? No sense recommending a #2500 mill if your minivan will only handle a #600 payload.

I certainly didn't have answers to these questions when I started. And I learned much wrestling for answers.
Consider contacting a HM Member(s) in your neighborhood and asking for a shop tour(s). 
Likely you will go away with different impressions depending on the HM.

You are always welcome in Dayton MN.


Daryl
MN


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## davidh (Nov 12, 2014)

exactly what daryl said. . . how deep are your pockets ?
you want to get right in to cnc stuff ? thats another road to travel. . . but jump in with more info and many here will be more than happy to give you advice


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## bloomingtonmike (Nov 12, 2014)

That PM45m-CNC machine many of you guys here have looks like a great beginner milling machine. CNC router for wood and plastic are a lot cheaper but this is a machining forum so I am guessing steel and alum is the aim. Retrofitting a machine is not a task for zero cnc experience IMO - really not even converting a G0704 is a beginner project but many people start there. These are $5k+ (PM) and $3K(G0704 build) options not including software. I retrofitted a 4500lb 1050 knee mill but had built many other cnc routers before tackling the servo retro fit using a centroid/ajax allinonedc controller. The G0704 is a great small machine and very basement doable.

If you want to just buy a sweet machine the tormach mill is cool as is the pm45m-cnc. 

IMO.


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## chuckorlando (Nov 12, 2014)

I'm of the opinion nothing is above ones ability. If you have the gonads to run a machine tool, nothing mechanicals is beyond your ability. 

It may be beyond your desire, might not fit your time frame, it might not be economically feasible. But given the correct motivation, you can do, re-do, or undo anything. Unless some have a super power I am not aware of, they cant do nothing you cant.

That being said there are only two things that you need to start with. First being amount of money in your pocket and the second being the amount of work you want to do. New or used, these are going to set the tone for what you look at. Out side of size limits, everything else can be worked out.

I have done a ton of looking into this cost wise. Best bang for the buck that I have found off the shelf was the pm45. Though I heard they wont carry them any more.

Most others cost so much I have a hard time not looking at used cnc or retro fit/conversion.


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## gr8legs (Nov 13, 2014)

As others have said, there's no 'best machine' - it depends on your anticipated projects.

Although there's a strong urge to run out and buy a machine, maybe you should resist that force and see if there is a local group of HSM's or a community college with a machine shop program you could try a few classes and get a feel for what it is you want to do.

Most of the CC programs let you bring in your own stuff to work on, especially the 'Saturday Introductory' courses that usually are just 'open shop'.

Once you know what capabilities you need it is easier to select a machine - and the experience will make you a more discerning buyer - plus the exposure to others in the same boat may unearth an available and affordable local machine that will fill your needs.

And you can always 'trade up' eventually to wht you discover you really need.  Been there, done that - but no t-shirt yet 

Have fun!

Stu


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## Stemy77 (Nov 13, 2014)

My garage is small, only couple standard outlets and a light. Which i do plan on redoing, I work with atlas-clausing mills at the shop i work at now. I do love runnning the machine when i am out in the shop working. So i was thinking a used mill like that would be perfect to start of on as i plan on doing some small projects first than eventally growing into a bigger on and bigger parts.I have took couple machining classes at school and loved it, i made 2 c clamps and a cannon as projects, i am going to sign up for another machining class there to further my knowledge.


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## xalky (Nov 13, 2014)

I like everybody's advice here. If you already have some projects in mind, you'll want something that's gonna be up to the task. My advice is to buy used and get the biggest thing you can afford our you'll be trading up fairly quickly unless your hobby is model trains or something similar. A class is a great suggestion if your just starting out, it'll put you in the right environment to make an educated decision. Don't forget that the machine is only half the battle financially, the tooling can easily double that cost.


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## compsurge (Nov 13, 2014)

Figure out how much you're willing to spend. Basic tooling will likely be about the same on any of the mills. There are some nice Taiwanese knee mills like the PM935 for about $6000. I don't know if a bigger table is available. The benchtop RF-45 type is well-regarded and not as pricey (PM-932 replaced PM-45) for $2800. There is also an undocumented VFD variant as well.


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## Ianagos (Nov 14, 2014)

If you have a garage I think a bridgeport is gonna be your best bet and depending on where you live it can be easy to find one for $1500 or less most of the time. And the best think about buy used is the tooling you'll acquire. That just my opinion. I'd rather look around for a less worn bridgeport for a few months and pay $2500 then spend almost $6000 according to my enco flyer for a similar machine with no tooling and from china or Taiwan that will take a few months to ship . Now dont get me wrong I'm not agianst Chinese stuff I just don't see the economics of spending more for less. Maybe look for a used import machine. But they alway bring way more than they are worth. Brands like supermax and excello are good bridge port alternatives though.


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## dracozny (Nov 15, 2014)

Your Garage is probably bigger than my back room. It's about as wide as one of those cheap metal sheds although I have more headroom and it's twice as long. I have a Zx45 in there, although in converting it to CNC I am going to have to flip it sideways to maintain some clearance for the X axis. God help me if I move.. anyways the 45 series clones are the largest benchtop you can get. if you plan on working steel with any sort of precision and speed I would recommend that it be the smallest mill you consider. it is best to go as large as possible. a Used Bridgeport can be had for the same price as a new 45 and is much more capable. 
If the 45 is what you have to consider, stick with Precision Mathews(PM) or consider the Charter Oak mills (A little spendier but much better quality).


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## Stemy77 (Nov 15, 2014)

What are the opinions about a bridgeport that's now working and rebuilding it. Not sure if that is a smart move or not worth the time or money.


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## chuckorlando (Nov 15, 2014)

It's a great idea and a horrible idea. Depends on alot of factors of the machine and you. I own a 1959 bridgeport that was clapped out. I measured the slop and shimmed it. For what I got in it, I could not double my money and buy a bench mill even close to it IMO.

 One day I will learn to scrap it in, or if I ever get me a cnc i will re cut the ways then light scrap. But that takes skills and practice or it takes money. Few grand at least. BUT it would be a brand new bridgeport in that regard for potentially a fraction of the cost.

So it really comes down to you, the price the machine cost, and what exactly a rebuild will mean. Spindle bearings and paint or a REBUILD are alot of dollars apart. Alot of time apart and alot of work apart. And neither are "to much" if you dont mind. 

That being said, I would take a wore out knee over a new bench mill . Provided the new mill is under the 2k price point and the BP price is equal to the condition.

If I was doing cnc on the machine my opinions would change


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## dracozny (Nov 15, 2014)

You also live over on the Eastern side of the country which makes finding a used mill so much easier. living here on the West coast it's like winning the lottery to find a good used mill that's not being sold at the same price it was new.


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## Ianagos (Nov 16, 2014)

Rebuilding a bridgeport is not very hard as long as you don't have to scrap ways. I redid an excello 602 and I say it took me 50 hours or so of actual work. Most of the time was waiting for paint to dry.


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## coolidge (Nov 16, 2014)

chuckorlando said:


> I'm of the opinion nothing is above ones ability.



Truth ^^^ :man:


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## Hardly (Nov 16, 2014)

I like vintage machinery and don't like letting loose of any more money than I have to, so my opinions might not be something that is of interest to you.

First you have to be patient. There are some very nice older mills with tooling for a good price if you take the time to find them. 

Secondly if you buy said mill and take care of it, in the future you can probably get all your money back out of it or even make some on it. That's not a option on a new piece of equipment.

Third is if you buy something used and it needs some work, take that as an opportunity to learn about the machinery.

Fourth buy bigger than you think you will need unless you are into building watches or other small projects and need it for that kind of work. You can do smaller jobs on a big machine but you can't handle bigger stuff on a small machine that just doesn't have the mass to do the work.

Hopefully you can pick the best advice that fits your situation and get a nice machine to fit your needs be it new or used. Please ask if you have any new questions, and when you do buy something please post some pictures of what you get. 

Hardly


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## sdmuleman (Nov 26, 2014)

Worth checking on the electrical side too - you mention only having a few outlets, have you looked at how hard it would be to get 220V to your garage, and if the service will support a shop? Ideally you'd probably want a 30A 220 circuit for a full size mill, so keep that in mind. If you have an electric dryer, then chances are decent you can just plug into that outlet if it's close enough.


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