# Filthy Beast.



## Eddyde (Feb 2, 2015)

*10" South Bend Tool Room lathe, needs a bath.*

I scored a deal a 10" X 3 1/2' toolroom lathe off of CL a couple of weeks ago, Model 8187-Z. It has a placard indicating its a WWII era machine. It was, still is partially, covered in caked on grease and filth but no signs of rust, there are a couple of dings in the ways near the tailstock that will need to be scraped out  but otherwise she looks pretty decent. Anyway, its a big upgrade from my 9"x3' change gear, bench model. It probably needs a complete teardown and rebuild but I have way too much on my plate right now and it will have to wait. In the meantime, I just want to get it up and running well enough to get me through my CNC Mill conversion that's looming in the near future, 
So far, I spent about 8 hrs. just cleaning the cross/compound, tail stock 3/J chuck and main gear train.  I have yet to do the motor compartment, QC gearbox, back gears, chip pan… I have been using a mixture of WD-40 and Mineral Spirits and various brushes to cut the filthy grease to but its slow going, Does any one know a faster way to clean this beast?
I had a couple of  other questions as well:
I need to replace the V belt between the motor and countershaft it is very badly worn with cords sloughing off of it. I cut it and measured its length @ 43” and the top of the pulley is ⅝” wide, so the assumption is its a 5L 430. However it was so old I was wondering if it could have stretched at all and I need a shorter 5L 420 instead?
Also, the lathe is in my “dream shop” located in in my retirement home to be, about 100 miles north of where I live. I forgot to measure the threads on the set screws that lock the dials on the cross/compound feeds, before I left Sunday. I want to order some small thumb screws and the belt from McMaster before I go back up next weekend. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Eddy


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## rafe (Feb 2, 2015)

I can check the threads tomorrow, I made some a year back nice knurled heads on them ....they work nice,and look great ....my lathe is similar vintage  14 1/2 ....love it oil yours up and use it keep it lubed


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## FOMOGO (Feb 3, 2015)

As to cleaning, I would use a pressure washer to knock off the heavy stuff, then soak it with engine degreaser and pressure wash again. Blow it off with compressed air immediately and then use a moisture dispursent like WD-40 or similar. Mike


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## moxie (Feb 3, 2015)

Nice looking little beast.  I really like South Bends and have owned 5 over the years.  I still have a 10" and a 13".

For the past week I've also been de-mucking a lathe.  I bought a 15" LeBlond for a really fair price from a machinery dealer in CT., but boy it sure was dirty and greasy.  I found for the last layer of dried on old varnish like deposit, WD-40 or Kerosene and a square of plastic window screening as a mild scrubber seemed to work well.  Simple green also works pretty well for the last clean up on the paint.  

I'll also check on the thread size of the dial locks.

Dave


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## RWL (Feb 3, 2015)

*Re: 10" South Bend Tool Room lathe, needs a bath.*



Eddyde said:


> Does any one know a faster way to clean this beast?


I use room temperature spray on Easy Off Oven Cleaner.  It's remarkable how fast this works.  Nothing I've tried has worked as quickly as this.  Over the years I've tried Kerosene, near full strength purple engine cleaner, Simple Green, and the oven cleaner was the fastest.  Spray small areas and wipe with a paper towel, or scrape.  It works pretty quickly, the grease running off almost as soon as it's hit with the spray in some areas.  Don't let it sit on for long periods since it can soften the paint, thus spray on small areas that you can work on within maybe 5 minutes.  You can let it sit on thick layers for a little longer.  The purple cleaner also can soften paint.  I picked this tip up from a retired machinist from whom I bought one of my K O Lee tool and cutter grinders.

One thing I've found for cleaning my greasy hands that really works is to put some full strength Dawn dishwashing liquid directly on my hands and rub it in before adding any water.  If you put water on first, it just doesn't clean nearly as well.  It works better than GoJo or the orange cleaners that I've tried.  The down side is that this really dries out your skin.  I can't use any of those hand cleaners in winter or I develop thumb cracks / winter splits.


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## PeteH (Feb 3, 2015)

There are products called "barrier cream" that you can put on your hands before working with messy stuff, that form a barrier to protect your skin.

When I used them - oh, 30-40 years ago - there was one kind to protect against water-based soils, and one for non-aqueous soils.  The first kind had to wear off; the second kind -- the kind you'd use for grease etc. -- would act as a release agent so when you washed your hands, the muck would (nearly) all slide right off.


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## LarryJ (Feb 3, 2015)

FOMOGO said:


> As to cleaning, I would use a pressure washer to knock off the heavy stuff, then soak it with engine degreaser and pressure wash again. Blow it off with compressed air immediately and then use a moisture dispursent like WD-40 or similar. Mike



I second this.  Put sticks or toothpicks in vents to the gearcase, but you'll be changing the oil anyway.


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## vforce61 (Feb 3, 2015)

My mill looked worse than that, I used mean green & pressure washer a few times after drying painted with por 15 looks like new now.


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## Eddyde (Feb 3, 2015)

Many Thanks for all the responses. I thought of pressure washing, but the day it was delivered the weather was freezing rain and I just had to get it into the shop. Now that's in the basement, I think that option is off the table. I do like the oven cleaner approach, I will definitely give it a try.
Yes if I could get the dial lock setscrew size, it would be awesome.
I also received the "Lathe Card" today:


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## razinman (Feb 3, 2015)

Eddyde, 

           Love the one you got, I live on L.I. and been looking for one JUST LIKE THAT for 3 months, Where did you
 find it ?(You said on CL but where ?)

  Thanks.............Kerry


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## Eddyde (Feb 3, 2015)

razinman said:


> Eddyde,
> 
> Love the one you got, I live on L.I. and been looking for one JUST LIKE THAT for 3 months, Where did you
> find it ?(You said on CL but where ?)
> ...


Upstate NY, Kingston. 
	

		
			
		

		
	



More about it here: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...y-life-in-a-good-way?highlight=thoughts+lathe


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## Eddyde (Feb 3, 2015)

Here is a picture of it partially cleaned up:


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## rafe (Feb 3, 2015)

Mine are 10-32 I have a bigger lathe but I imagine they would use the same sized screw .


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## Eddyde (Feb 3, 2015)

rafe said:


> Mine are 10-32 I have a bigger lathe but I imagine they would use the same sized screw .


Many Thanks, I'll order them tonight.


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## razinman (Feb 3, 2015)

Eddyde said:


> Upstate NY, Kingston.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Eddyde (Feb 3, 2015)

razinman said:


> Eddyde said:
> 
> 
> > Upstate NY, Kingston.
> ...


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## Ed T (Feb 3, 2015)

I got a very similar machine a couple of years ago. Has the War Resources Board sticker on it. I believe mine was made in '45. Like yours, mine was a filthy mess when I got it, so I blew it completely apart and redid everything I could. I paid a good bit more than you did, but, in balance, got almost every accessory made for the lathe; many in the original boxes. Back story is that it was bout by a dentist right after WWII and, apparently, he didn't use it much. Lots of the original cosmoline on it. Anyhow, heres a pic of mine. Good luck with yours.


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## razinman (Feb 3, 2015)

Eddyde said:


> razinman said:
> 
> 
> > I actually drive up and paid him that Saturday night, he delivered it the next day. Gotta be lightning fast for those good deals on CL. Anyway, good luck with your search, if I see any similar deals around, I'll let you know.
> ...


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## Eddyde (Feb 3, 2015)

razinman said:


> Eddyde said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for your interest,  It said you lived in Brooklyn according to the Machinist profile( is that where he delivered it to ?)
> ...


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## razinman (Feb 4, 2015)

Eddyde said:


> Many Thanks for all the responses. I thought of pressure washing, but the day it was delivered the weather was freezing rain and I just had to get it into the shop. Now that's in the basement, I think that option is off the table. I do like the oven cleaner approach, I will definitely give it a try.
> 
> Hi Eddyde,
> 
> ...


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## Eddyde (Feb 4, 2015)

razinman said:


> Eddyde said:
> 
> 
> > Many Thanks for all the responses. I thought of pressure washing, but the day it was delivered the weather was freezing rain and I just had to get it into the shop. Now that's in the basement, I think that option is off the table. I do like the oven cleaner approach, I will definitely give it a try.
> ...


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## benmychree (Feb 4, 2015)

FOMOGO said:


> As to cleaning, I would use a pressure washer to knock off the heavy stuff, then soak it with engine degreaser and pressure wash again. Blow it off with compressed air immediately and then use a moisture dispursent like WD-40 or similar. Mike



I fear that a pressure washer would likely remove a bunch of the casting filler and make a real mess of things.


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## benmychree (Feb 4, 2015)

Another product that works well as a machine cleaner is "Oil Eater" it is available from Costco in gallon jugs with a spray bottle included; mist it on at full strength, multiple times for heavy crud, then wipe off or scrub with water or a diluted solution.  It is similar to 409, but much stronger; it will soften paint, but it rehardens quickly.  It is fairly easy on the hands, but gloves are probably a good idea for prolonged contact.  I used this routinely in my shop before retirement, and can attest to it's superior attributes.  It even (quite quickly) removes the yellow/brown oil scum from nice paint jobs without ruining the finish.


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## razinman (Feb 4, 2015)

Eddyde said:


> razinman said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Kerry,
> ...


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## Ed T (Feb 6, 2015)

WRT cleaning the machine. You have to decide whether you want to clean the paint that's there or strip it off. On my machine that is about the same vintage as yours, I elected to strip it clean or nearly so. I found that the paint on the majority of the parts was soluble in lacquer thinner and was, in some areas on top of a layer of pyroxyline putty which was the Bondo of the '40's. I speculate that the machine was painted with lacquer-like paint to speed up the production process in wartime, but that's pure speculation on my part. The "so what" of all that is that if you try to clean it up with any aggressive material, you're going to strip some of the paint whether that's your intent or not. So oven cleaner, strong cleaners like Purple Power, lacquer thinner, acetone, brake cleaner etc. are going to remove paint. In addition, some of those products are caustic and, if you can't get it all off, will make a corrosion problem in the future. If it was me (and it isn't) I'd stick to mineral spirits or WD-40 and elbow grease if all you want to do is clean it up. It's pretty likely you'll end up taking it apart at some point to fix all the petrified lubrication wicks, but right now may not be the time. In any case, good luck with it.


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## lugnard (Feb 7, 2015)

You could try a steam cleaner. I use one at work for cleaning just about anything and it works amazingly well. Here is a link to what I'm talking about but you wouldn't want to buy one..maybe rent one somewhere.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/US-Steam-Vapor-Boss-Vapor-Steam-Cleaner-ES600/202720890?N=5yc1vZbuaw

I'm a custodian for a school district. It will remove just about anything the kids can slap on a surface! Never tried on grease but it did a bang up job on caked on stripper goo on the scrub machine. Never hurt the paint!

Harry


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## zman (Feb 7, 2015)

Wow, 1942. I have a Norton 6 x 18 surface grinder the same age. It served out country in the Navy, has plaques on the motors. Gotta love the classics.


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## j. vibert (Feb 7, 2015)

Nice find Eddy,

I spent the better part of two years waiting to find a heavy ten in my neck of the woods.  I had seen only one during that time which had a cabinet base (I prefer the cast version) and it was held up at a machinery dealer with a fresh coat of "hide all the flaws green".  I passed of course but a merely 18mths later I found this guy...


Not in the best of shape but hey beggers can't be choosers.  At any rate I believe my serial number puts my production year in 1942 as well.  Maybe our machines sat across one another in class...lol.

I won't be attempting anything with this machine till spring hits so I'll be watching your thread with great interest.

Congrats


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## mfrick (Feb 8, 2015)

I have had great luck with Castoral Super Clean and Men Green. Both work great:victory:


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## Eddyde (Feb 9, 2015)

So another 8 hrs of scrubbing and she's finally clean.


I tried the oven cleaner with mixed results: At first, I applied it to a small area, it seemed to work so I sprayed the rest of the machine (below the ways)... it did remove the dried on grime, not so much directly, but by dissolving the paint beneath it... It turns out the beast had been repainted at some point with a slightly lighter shade of grey, the oven cleaner literally liquified it creating quite a mess... So I used lugnard's suggestion and used a steam cleaner, which I happened to have (impulse buy from Costco, about 10 years ago), to blast off the oven cleaner sludge, this worked quite well. I then went back to the WD-40 Mineral Spirits mix to get off the remaining residue and displace any moisture from the steam cleaner. All got soaked up by Zep Spill Absorber that I had waiting on the floor.  To clean the inside of the motor compartment, I first sprayed with the WD-40 mix, scrubbed with long handled brushes then the spill absorber to soak it all up and used vacuum and compressed air to get out the absorber. 
This is by far the dirtiest machine I ever cleaned, beating out the Globe #150 Deli Meat Slicer, by a mile.


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## FOMOGO (Feb 9, 2015)

Looks good Ed. I think all that grease and muck was probably a blessing in disguise. Much better than rust and corrosion, and/or badly worn components. To much oil is almost always better than not enough. Mike


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## rowbare (Feb 10, 2015)

PeteH said:


> There are products called "barrier cream" that you can put on your hands before working with messy stuff, that form a barrier to protect your skin.
> 
> When I used them - oh, 30-40 years ago - there was one kind to protect against water-based soils, and one for non-aqueous soils.  The first kind had to wear off; the second kind -- the kind you'd use for grease etc. -- would act as a release agent so when you washed your hands, the muck would (nearly) all slide right off.



Invisible Gloves is a good brand. I had used it in the distant past as well but couldn't seem to find it in local retailers anymore. Then I found that Aircraft Spruce carries it so I ordered several cans at a time to average out the shipping. I use it pretty much every time I go in the shop. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/handinvisible.php?clickkey=138577

bob


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## DoogieB (Feb 10, 2015)

If you had to use a steam genny to clean the lathe, I think it would be a good idea to pull the spindle and re-wick.  Who knows what's in the oil cavities now.


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## Eddyde (Feb 10, 2015)

DoogieB said:


> If you had to use a steam genny to clean the lathe, I think it would be a good idea to pull the spindle and re-wick.  Who knows what's in the oil cavities now.



I was very careful not to direct the steam or compressed air into critical areas like the spindle bearings, oil cups, etc. However, I will probably remove the spindle and change the wicks soon. I do want to put it to the test to  see how accurate it is and what may need work.


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