# Grizzly Mill Or Pm



## almost retired (Nov 6, 2016)

I have lurked for a while and just joined this forum.  After my last couple projects pushed me over the edge fighting my HF $60 bench press I thought life would be much easier with a mill.  I have other projects waiting that I could do easier, like restore my tractor, build pedal car, work on cars, etc... 

So, I read some and came up with some basic ideas on a mill.
Weight between 600-800 pounds.  I don't want the mill to move.
Gear head, I don't want to have to change belts.
1.5-2HP.  I don't want to stall the motor.
I don't have a preference between 110-220 volts.  I can wire in 220 if needed.
I want to be able to upgrade later to CNC, add cooling, and/or power options.
I don't think I want a knee mill.

I might go with a used bridgeport later, but I am not interested in rebuilding a mill.  I am thinking more working out of the box.  Same with not getting HF, since I would be fixing it as soon as I bought it.

So as of today.  I am looking at PM 932 and grizzly G0755. (I could change and may change tomorrow)
I am close enough to drive to Bellingham to save shipping from grizzly.

So, I guess since I haven't owned a mill before, is there one that is clearly better than another?
I don't want to wait till the spring tent sale for grizzly.  Hopefully there is some coupons or sales that make one company a better deal.

I started looking at the G0704 but the more I looked at photos and videos, the more it looked like there were other models that were superior with incremental cost.

thanks for reading


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## Plas62 (Nov 7, 2016)

I looked at both of the mills you mentioned in your post and went with the PM932. I have been happy with it. The service from Matt at QMT has also been great.


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## dieselshadow (Nov 7, 2016)

I'm also another very satisfied QMT customer who owns a PM940M-PDF. I settled on this model for the extra capacity and power down feed. You won't go wrong choosing a PM.


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## Heckle and Jeckle (Nov 7, 2016)

FWIW PM hands down: PM 747  also gear head @ 120 ac


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## Christian Poulsen (Nov 7, 2016)

I know I'm shopping again too (Like I said previously around here somewhere; like a dummy I sold my Jet table top)... anyway I found a used Grizzly knee mill on Craigslist yesterday with an Enco X pwr feed and a DRO installed on it for $2200 I want to take a look at it so yes, I see some guys that have Grizzlys here so how about them? Any complaints?


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## Hozzie (Nov 7, 2016)

I also just ordered a PM932m.  3 year vs 1 year warrant on the Grizzly is a huge difference.


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## kingmt01 (Nov 7, 2016)

I personally don't see much difference other then color & price between Grizzly & HF. I've had to clean the casting sand out of both. Who ever did the electrical in my HF knee mill took great pride in their work. It looks like a master piece inside the casting. Every wire is so neatly place ever terminal is so uniformed in length. I was shocked how everything is placed & uniformed.

I have no complaint on my Grizzly lathe but thee guy that mounted the switches & ran the wires didn't have the same pride & it really sucks to try to trace a wire or get in to move one.


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## Christian Poulsen (Nov 7, 2016)

Well I guess I snoozed and loosed...that Grizzly went fast...but the same guy has this Southbend lathe (though somewhat out of my budget) ...But I would have offered $5000 for both
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5858248135.html

This looks interesting though: http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5862640137.html


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## almost retired (Nov 7, 2016)

Hozzie said:


> I also just ordered a PM932m.  3 year vs 1 year warrant on the Grizzly is a huge difference.


Thanks for all the replies.  This is great.  I think my wife kind of realizes that she might not see me much if I get a mill.  There is another model I found today that looks better for the future. Charter Oak 12Z which used to be IH as I understand.  The company has the upgrades offered to buy as you go.  Looks like the same mill as the Bolton mill.  It looks like to me really what it comes down to buying customer service.


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## wrmiller (Nov 7, 2016)

If you have the space and funds, I would strongly suggest a 940 instead of the 932 because it's not a question of 'if', it's just a question of 'when' you will want/need that extra travel in the Y-axis. I can speak from experience in telling you that it can make all the difference in the world on some setups. Just my $0.02.


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## brav65 (Nov 7, 2016)

My $.02 is by from Matt at Precision Mathews.  His customer service is the best I have ever received, period.  To give you reference I am a project manager in construction and have purchased hundreds of millions of dollars worth of materials and have never received the service Imhave received from Matt. I shop for everything, but will never shop for another metal working machine, I will just call Matt.  If he does not have what you need he will either get it or tell you where you should by.  Just my $.02 your mileage may vary...


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## dave2176 (Nov 7, 2016)

I have owned the G0755 for just over 3 years. It has performed flawlessly. It is tight and accurate still. That said, I think Matt has some great products and stellar service. I would stay between these two brands for the 45 class machine.
Happy shopping,
Dave
P.S. don't forget budget for tooling.


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## wrmiller (Nov 7, 2016)

almost retired said:


> There is another model I found today that looks better for the future. Charter Oak 12Z which used to be IH as I understand.



Missed the part about the 12Z in my initial read of your post, sorry. I had a 12Z. Called it 'El Hefe'. (see the thread in the CO sub-forum) I had a PM25 and wanted something bigger. The 932 didn't have enough Y axis travel, and Matt was not yet selling the 940 or I would have without a doubt bought that instead.

I put a 3-axis DRO on the 12z, and converted it to belt drive (gears rob too much power, and are too slow). Then I installed their one-shot oiling system, which requires you to machine the saddle and gibbs. Then I started REALLY getting serious in truing up/scraping/lapping the ways, gibbs, and table. Then I put ball-screws on the X and Y axis. Took a year to get the machine where I wanted it. And it is a heck of a little bed mill I must say. After all the mods I did. A good friend bought it, even after having a horrible customer service experience and quality issues with his CO mill (it ended up going back). And he still loves it. But the work involved in getting that machine to that level of performance/capability is not something I would suggest someone new to machines even attempt.

Truth is, I'd probably still have that mill if Matt at PM hadn't made me a Deal of the Century on a PM935S. I won't go into any specifics, but I wouldn't even attempt to put the stock CO 12z machine on the same level as the PM 932 or 940. And it isn't even close on the customer service. I have bought 3 machines from Matt, and if I ever need another he is the only one I will be calling.


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## Christian Poulsen (Nov 8, 2016)

A secondary thx to all here...I was unfamiliar with PM mills and it seems you guys like them much...the prices are definitely right when considering new vs the used mills (even though knee) I'm looking at ....(Geez, I don't feel so dumb now but I feel like a ripoff selling my Jet for $2000! (Oh well, he did get all the collets, a vice and angle vice that I put a lot of work into (grinding and I added a set of brass jaws to both) and the other accessories and a lot of both steel and carbide tooling.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Nov 8, 2016)

Broad requirements, a 1 1/2 to two hp spindle is easily stalled, think bigger. You also desire a large Z Axis without a knee, this is difficult to find at best.
Good Luck


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## Ronster Irons (Nov 9, 2016)

I have a Grizzly G0602 lathe. I have had it for a year and had to machine every surface in some spots 0.01 to get the warps out. There is a reason Grizzly has one of the nations largest part warehouses, because they make more off parts then the equipment they sold in the first place. This is actually my second Grizzly lathe it was a replacement for the first defective one I received. I also have a Grizzly scroll saw, had to replace the motor after 2 hours use. My advice, unless you want to become a millwright don't buy Grizzly. Also keep in mind these mills have a head stock that hangs on the dove tails. This means when you tighten the Z axis gibs it changes the cutter angle ever so slightly. I managed to fix that issue by scraping my ways and using a counter balance system. They are also on a rack and pinion which can make fine feeding and plunge cutting kind of ugly, cause there is a slop in the column and gear train you really can't do much about. As with a knee mill all the weight is in the table and the cutter is held solid. If I was going to do it again I would give some serious thought to this KBC VM-12 R8.   http://www.kbctools.com/products/MACHINERY/MILLING MACHINES/MANUAL MILLING MACHINES/2430.aspx 
Changing belts would be the least of my worries, a VFD or DC convert is easy to do. And I am partial to DC as you can get free treadmills all day long with 2-3 HP motors.


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## almost retired (Nov 9, 2016)

Great ideas.  Lets just pretend I don't know how to operate a mill even though I work close to one of the largest machine shops in the US.  I am kind of leaning now toward the PM-932 or 940 with the DRO.  I have some time coming off for the holidays, so I can call.  Sounds like the company is straight up, so I could ask a few things.  It did cross my mind about getting one of the other mills, so I had more money for tooling.


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## wrmiller (Nov 9, 2016)

Food for thought: The 940 has 22 inches max distance spindle to table! Hell, my 935 knee mill doesn't have that much. Heck, most 1ox54 knee mills only have 17". If you need room under the spindle, this is the mill to get. Just my $0.02 of course.


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## Ronster Irons (Nov 10, 2016)

I only have the Sieg Super X2 from LMS, it is a pretty good little machine. I have modified the hell out of it and increased it capabilities quite a bit. They have a bigger 5500 model that I probably would have got if it was available at the time. Not bad specs for what it is.


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## shooter123456 (Nov 10, 2016)

I would like to add a number +1 for PM if for no other reason than the customer service. 

I have a 1030V lathe from them and I was having an issue with my gears on a Sunday around 5:30 PM and Matt was helping to troubleshoot. Then sent me a bunch of spare parts free of charge to get things moving faster.  It inspires a lot of confidence knowing that anytime something goes wrong, they will make it right with as little hassle to you as possible.


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## Christian Poulsen (Nov 10, 2016)

shooter123456 said:


> I would like to add a number +1 for PM if for no other reason than the customer service.
> 
> I have a 1030V lathe from them and I was having an issue with my gears on a Sunday around 5:30 PM and Matt was helping to troubleshoot. Then sent me a bunch of spare parts free of charge to get things moving faster.  It inspires a lot of confidence knowing that anytime something goes wrong, they will make it right with as little hassle to you as possible.


I've been rereading all this stuff for reference from you guys while I'm on the hunt again...
...now, pulling the trigger is the problem...
...any suggestions out there for separating cash from a vise like grip?


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## shooter123456 (Nov 10, 2016)

Christian Poulsen said:


> epaired, I still some problems with my main Machine Tool Control): 4 concussions w/3 skull fractures and 2 subdural hematomas,
> 
> I've been rereading all this stuff for reference from you guys while I'm on the hunt again...
> ...now, pulling the trigger is the problem...
> ...any suggestions out there for separating cash from a vise like grip?



It helps if you remember that you arent just throwing all that money down the toilet. You are getting an item that will hold its value pretty well. My first lathe I got new for $475 or so and sold it a couple months later for $400. I could have gotten more but I didnt want to wait. So I really only spent $75 on that thing which isn't bad considering how much I did with it.


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## Christian Poulsen (Nov 10, 2016)

shooter123456 said:


> It helps if you remember that you arent just throwing all that money down the toilet. You are getting an item that will hold its value pretty well. My first lathe I got new for $475 or so and sold it a couple months later for $400. I could have gotten more but I didnt want to wait. So I really only spent $75 on that thing which isn't bad considering how much I did with it.


Ya true that (I gotta' remember...like that Logan I bought for $750 and sold for $2000 a few yrs later (but with some of my "TLC" and other "stuff" I added to it/with it...(signed: A dummy)
...Note: I'm not all that reminiscent hurt over selling the Jet...Ima' likeing this PM talk and research here....


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## Christian Poulsen (Nov 10, 2016)

...just a question here to any guys about these PM table tops (or others) (ifn' you have done done it or similar)...
...can you take, say at least a .050 deep cut, the width of say half the width of a 3/4" carbide endmill (or steel ifn' the carbide is gonna' get all chiped up) along the side (edge) on say a 4140 plate without the table on X wanting to "vibrate" like a washing machine on spin cycle with a load of towels all on one side of the tub??...(and needing a new X lead screw assembly in 6 months or whatever?)  (With Y locked, and X snugged a bit of course...and the quill up as far as possible and locked of course....and of course I don't expect it to climb mill except maybe a couple of thousandths or less for finish on that shoulder (if needed)...?


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## almost retired (Nov 13, 2016)

Christian Poulsen said:


> I've been rereading all this stuff for reference from you guys while I'm on the hunt again...
> ...now, pulling the trigger is the problem...
> ...any suggestions out there for separating cash from a vise like grip?



I would just suggest to not fight nature.  Invest $40k  (or so) in a stock that pays a 5-10% dividend.  Take money from the dividends and buy a mill or lathe and keep the stock.


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