# Considering a vertical bandsaw build



## Lo-Fi (Dec 19, 2020)

Been looking for ages for a metal bandsaw. I remember Mr Pete saying in one of his videos that they're a great tool to have, but that they're expensive. He ain't wrong! Anything decent is more than I paid for my Bridgeport over here and usually just as big. Certainly anything that'll run slow enough to cut steel. So many projects lately I've been thinking a bandsaw would save me so much time. Then I bought a nice block of tool steel offcut recently and realised when it arrived that I have no sane way to cut it...

So it got me thinking... They're simple tools really. Why not make one? My current shop is tiny, so footprint is critical. I have motors and a worm reduction box handy, plus a bunch of other bits, and I can buy wheels/guides and suchlike off the shelf as spares, so it's really just the frame that needs making. I don't have room to make it horizontal/vertical even if I wanted to, there just isn't room.

If you own a metal cutting vertical bandsaw, are there features you like/dislike/wish for? Any comments on blade guides, fences/feed mechanisms, speed adjustability? Table tilt? Desirable blade deapth?

Appreciate the comments, thanks in advance


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## Reddinr (Dec 19, 2020)

I use mine quite often but 70% for woodworking 30% metal working.  Speed adjustment is really nice to have for this mixed use.  A big, stable, heavy table is great too.  Metal is heavy so a light duty table might flex.  I bought my Powermatic 87 for a bargain price a couple of decades ago and have moved with it twice (it is a beast to move!)  It is a 3-phase unit so I made a little built-in phase converter for it.  Trouble is that spare parts are not available for it anymore.  But, that may make for a good bargain if you can find a used one.  I guess UK is a bandsaw desert though...

The other thing to consider is a set of wire-brushes that sweep the blade continuously.  I recently put a new set of roller guides on mine at the same time I had to replace the weakened blade spring.  Those  guides probably cost more than I paid for the saw but the rollers make a big difference in how well the blade tracks vs. the fixed pinch-style guides.

Just to give you an idea of how rigid the frame might need to be, here is the band tension spring on mine:  25mm dia x 64mm long.

I also tried to attach the manual for it but it was too large.  I can email it to you if you like, though I might have to .zip/compress it.  You might glean some ideas from looking through it.

All that being said, I use a horizontal bandsaw more often for metal work because most of the stock I deal with is long and narrow.  Best of luck with your project!


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## NC Rick (Dec 19, 2020)

I finally got one a few years ago.  I bought a Grizzly 17" wood/metal unit because I couldn't find anything used that wasn't too big.  I'm impressed with it and like it more than I thought.  The bearing guides seem fine.  Fast blade changes are really important to me and if I stay with the same with and thickness blades, I can do it way way faster than on the 4x6 h. saw.  I have been using 1/2" blades and the 10-14 is in there the most because of the thinner things I most often cut but I switch to a 6tpi and a 8-10 a good bit.  The "17-inch" is a bit of an exaggeration and 16" is more like the most of will handle.  More would be better, a three wheel one would be the thing if your building one and need smaller footprint.  I haven't needed to saw stuff more that 4" thick that I can think of.  the machine is quiet and clean.  It also can pre machine a lot of stuff before it goes in the Bridgeport.  Some of that can be done with the 4x6" horizontal but the nice working height and solid large table along with the stability  is surprisingly much better.  I'd have loved to have a do-all but just don't have the room nor want such a large machine.  The Grizzly is under 500 lbs.  variable speed is nice.  I cut wud on it some but seldom change the pulley system to high range. 60-to 500 ft/min would cover what I do and with the coarser blade still works for cutting a wooden shelf or something quick.


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## benmychree (Dec 19, 2020)

I have not seen any vertical bandsaws that use wire brushes, they do not seem necessary, but are very common on horizontal machines; why, I do not know, but horizontal machines mostly use Iron wheels and coolant, whereas vertical machines commonly use rubber or urethane wheel tires and do not use coolant.


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## C-Bag (Dec 19, 2020)

I used my 14” vertical bandsaw today. I like it because it was cheap($50) plentiful parts at cheap prices and it was cheap to make a double belt reduction to cut steel. Every place is different but the 14” is the most common bandsaw made and the only difference between wood and steel cutting bandsaws is the speed of the blade. Wood 3,000 ft per min, metal 100 to 200ft per min.  The footprint on the floor is about 2’x2’. About half what a horizontal is. I have wheels welded on the bottom front so I can easily move it around the shop like a hand truck. Dont need wire wheels on neither the horizontal or vertical. I use old tooth brushes to keep the tires on the vertical from getting swarf embedded in them. So yeah, handy as a shirt pocket and cheap.


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## mickri (Dec 19, 2020)

IMHO it would be easier to convert a wood band saw to cut metal than to start from scratch.  That's what I did.  I picked up a Dunlap 14" for $70 of CL and a 30:1 speed reducer off Ebay for around $60.  The 30:1 is a too slow with the 7" driven pulley on mine.  I have replaced the 7" with a 3" pulley.  Haven't used it yet with the new pulley because I need a smaller v belt.  I'll get that next week.  The other route is with  double reduction pulleys like C-Bag did.  Vintage Machinery has a speed calculator that is very handy to check different set ups.


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## graham-xrf (Dec 20, 2020)

I had wondered about woodwork bandsaws.
Is it really so that the only difference is using a saw with more TPC (sorry ..TPI), and making it go slower?


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## Lo-Fi (Dec 20, 2020)

Thanks everyone for the detailed replies! I shall read thoroughly and digest.

I have tried a wood bandsaw slowed down with a metal blade but didn't have a lot of success, I think because of a lack of rigidity. Just couldn't get the blade to stay on. Anything decent, even a woodworkers model, is expensive this side of the pond for some reason! 

Thanks @Reddinr , that would be great. I'll pm my email address shortly.


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## C-Bag (Dec 20, 2020)

graham-xrf said:


> I had wondered about woodwork bandsaws.
> Is it really so that the only difference is using a saw with more TPC (sorry ..TPI), and making it go slower?


There is a boat load of wood cutting bandsaws. Some mostly sheet metal and some like the 14” that have all cast iron frames and cast iron tables. It’s why I picked it. There are versions of it with gear boxes so they could cut metal and wood. Way too much $$ for my budget. Almost everybody seems to make a knockoff of the 14” and the Harbor Freight is a direct knockoff where it uses the same parts as a Delta or Rockwell.

I feel like a broken record because periodically somebody wants to convert or make a vertical bandsaw and here I am. But it does stuff my horizontal can’t do. Like take a 2.5”x2.5”3.125” of 1018 and cut it longways in .300 slices. That’s what I was doing yesterday, making jaws for my drill press quick vise that didn’t come with jaws. For doing odd, small, thick, thin, whatever cuts my 14 is the goto. And since I put a pneumatic powered sled on it so I can just mount up the piece and let it do the boring work while I go do some thing else I’m a happy camper.


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## graham-xrf (Dec 20, 2020)

Lo-Fi said:


> Thanks everyone for the detailed replies! I shall read thoroughly and digest.
> 
> I have tried a wood bandsaw slowed down with a metal blade but didn't have a lot of success, I think because of a lack of rigidity. Just couldn't get the blade to stay on. Anything decent, even a woodworkers model, is expensive this side of the pond for some reason!
> 
> Thanks @Reddinr , that would be great. I'll pm my email address shortly.


Do you suppose robbing a flimsy bandsaw of it's rotaty bits, and making a stiff frame weld fabrication could be a decent project?
Even adding a "stiffen up the frame" mod to an existing bandsaw?
If the UK price is crazy enough, maybe a homebrew version in it's entirety?
(.. but what to use for the big wheels)?


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## Mitch Alsup (Dec 20, 2020)

I happen to have a metal/wood 14" bandsaw with VFD speed control. And while I like it for what it does.......

I am finding that 14" is "contraining" and that if you get a smaller vertical bandsaw (less than 20), you are also going to need a horizontal BS in order to cut the metal stock you buy into millable and latheable starting points.


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## Lo-Fi (Dec 20, 2020)

graham-xrf said:


> Do you suppose robbing a flimsy bandsaw of it's rotaty bits, and making a stiff frame weld fabrication could be a decent project?
> Even adding a "stiffen up the frame" mod to an existing bandsaw?
> If the UK price is crazy enough, maybe a homebrew version in it's entirety?
> (.. but what to use for the big wheels)?



If I can find anything worthy, that's exactly what I'll do. Either some neglected old iron with a decent frame that I can change the speed of, or simply rob wheels and other worth worky-bits. If not, wheels are available as spares for not much money. The rest is just plate work, a few machined parts and the drive. It should actually make quite a nice project, a little like the belt grinder builds you find.



Mitch Alsup said:


> I happen to have a metal/wood 14" bandsaw with VFD speed control. And while I like it for what it does.......
> 
> I am finding that 14" is "contraining" and that if you get a smaller vertical bandsaw (less than 20), you are also going to need a horizontal BS in order to cut the metal stock you buy into millable and latheable starting points.



Thankfully I have a power hacksaw for hogging bar stock down, so that changes the requirement for the bandsaw quite a bit. I can't ditch the hacksaw in favour of a horizontal/vertical bandsaw because it happens to sit quite usably under a bench, which the alternative wouldn't usefully. I don't even have enough room to "wheel it out when using"!
For me, the band saw will be for plate exclusively, but that's a great point to make.


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## talvare (Dec 20, 2020)

C-Bag said:


> And since I put a pneumatic powered sled on it so I can just mount up the piece and let it do the boring work while I go do some thing else I’m a happy camper.



C-Bag,
That pneumatic powered sled is very interesting. Any chance you could post some more details about it.
Thanks
Ted


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## Lo-Fi (Dec 21, 2020)

Yes, I'd like to see that too!


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## NC Rick (Dec 21, 2020)

Ima going to copy C-bag's idea guilt free!  Nice work right?

the 4x6 horizontal saw will not be displaced!


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## kb58 (Dec 21, 2020)

As mentioned above, a three-wheel saw is a way to get a good depth of cut without making a large assembly. If you're making your own, the key bits are the crowned wheels and a motor/gearbox that can run slow enough for metal. Using a 3-phase motor and VFD for speed control is also very nice.


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## Lo-Fi (Dec 21, 2020)

Thanks for the pics, @C-Bag ! Any chance you've got some during the conversion? Some more details would be most welcome


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## rbertalotto (Dec 21, 2020)

here's my conversion...love it! Works great...






						Bandsaw conversion to DC drive...Wood to Metal Cutting Conversion | RVB Precision
					

I have a horizontal bandsaw for cutting steel stock to length. It is an amazing time saver and a great asset if you do a lot of metal fabrication. This type of saw can be used in the upright position to cut metal on a small table. But it is inconvieneient to convert to thisRead More




					rvbprecision.com


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## C-Bag (Dec 21, 2020)

Lo-Fi said:


> Thanks for the pics, @C-Bag ! Any chance you've got some during the conversion? Some more details would be most welcome


I’m presently in the middle of another of my ongoing upgrades. This one is to my old 4x6 horizontal.

i did this mod before I was on any forums so I have not progressional pics. I have posted some before and I think there is enough interest I could do a standalone thread in the users projects area. I think to really make clear how simple, compact and cheap it is (depending on your junk available) I might have to pull the guts. It’s pretty easy in that the whole drive is held in with 4 bolts. I’ve always hated adjusting drives belts especially when they are close to the floor. I had the old motor mount from a table saw that used the weight of the motor to tension the belt. So the whole thing hangs by the belts auto tensioning. To pull the belts you grab the angle iron the jack shaft is mounted to and lift, pull off the upper belt and lower the motor to the floor, then pull the other belt. Hopefully these pics will make sense for now. Sorry to those who’ve seen these before.


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## Lo-Fi (Dec 21, 2020)

I think @C-Bag  and @rbertalotto have shown me the way to go. I reckon a two wheel design with decent size wheels should be adequate for my needs. Wheels are cheap enough to buy as spares, as are guides (I like the look of those roller guides); the rest I have laying around. That lovely cast frame makes me think a fabricated frame from rectangular steel tube - which I have on-hand - should work well. I can always fill it with epoxy granite or concrete if it wants to ring! I love that air auto feed too, that's just genius. 

Thanks to everyone, this really is a fantastic forum


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## C-Bag (Dec 21, 2020)

I love to make stuff, but I have an aversion to making from scratch when I can mod. There are a TON of details in making bandsaw. It’s not a simple machine and if you are having probs with making one track as I did, you need to see this vid. In watching this I realized everything I thought I knew about bandsaws was wrong. And thinking back I have no idea where I got those ideas.


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## Tim9 (Dec 22, 2020)

I recently saw a post from someone who converted a cheap horizontal Harbor Freight 4x6 saw to a vertical saw. You can buy the ones which are dual use.... ( they have a little table you bolt on)but that’s a little bit of work swapping from one to the other. 

converting the 4x6 to be a dedicated vertical saw is a pretty good idea in my opinion, because the saws are fairly bullet proof. I like the idea of that conversion.


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## NC Rick (Dec 22, 2020)

Tim9 said:


> I recently saw a post from someone who converted a cheap horizontal Harbor Freight 4x6 saw to a vertical saw. You can buy the ones which are dual use.... ( they have a little table you bolt on)but that’s a little bit of work swapping from one to the other.
> 
> converting the 4x6 to be a dedicated vertical saw is a pretty good idea in my opinion, because the saws are fairly bullet proof. I like the idea of that conversion.


The downside that makes that not workable for me is the extreme limitation on the maximum size you can cut.  I used mine ike that for years and that limitation made it near worthless in that mode.  Special clamping fixtures handles most small parts.  The difference of going from 4" to 17" was a world of difference but 26" would be better


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## C-Bag (Dec 22, 2020)

It totally appeals to my junkyard dog heart. Especially if it was the basis of a moving table style like Tom of Oxtools has.

My problem is I hardly ever see a 4x6 for sale and if I do they are often more than what you can buy one new at HF. Even when they look like they have been outside for decades.

The added complication is I don’t think what we know and love as the common 4x6 here in N.America might not be at all common in the Europe. In the short lived RF forum Nicholas noted that the N.A model was different from the EU model and theirs couldn’t be used vertical. And is 3x’s what the HF 4x6 is.


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## C-Bag (Dec 22, 2020)

NC Rick said:


> The downside that makes that not workable for me is the extreme limitation on the maximum size you can cut.  I used mine ike that for years and that limitation made it near worthless in that mode.  Special clamping fixtures handles most small parts.  The difference of going from 4" to 17" was a world of difference but 26" would be better


I used my old 4x6 vertical for years and with the silly dangerous sheetmetal legs that came with it. It was always very dangerous because the saw could tip over backwards or the leg could collapse if I pressed too hard and the table that came with it was basically useless. Now the mod Mikey came up with is brilliant and useful but I have to go through so many contortions just to move stuff around already in my fully packed space. I just decided to go with a dedicated vertical. Much safer and with that auto feed much happy making. Two different saws for different jobs. Nothing is one size fits all or does it all. At least not well. With the added benefit of being able to have them both cutting stuff at the same time!


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## rbertalotto (Dec 22, 2020)

Using a 4 X 6 make huige sense to me. My vertical saw is nearly 100% used for a quick "cut of" of well under 4" and / or a long cut on a piece of strap steel or angle iron.

Limitations are met everyday on the 14" limitation of my 14" vertical bandsaw.


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## C-Bag (Dec 22, 2020)

This is what I’m talking about. It would be a hybrid between the 14” vert and the 4x6 using the 4x6 head. I think the original like what Tom L. has is a Roubax. It is now made almost exactly like this by Dake. But hold on to your shorts when you see the price tag. As my junkyard brain kicks in I could see making something like this out of an old defunct cabinet saw. Cast iron top, solid base just need a 4x6 head and some guides....too bad I trashed the old Grizzly cabinet saw as it had all those parts. That’s where I got the motor mount for the vert saw.


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## Lo-Fi (Dec 22, 2020)

What an interesting thread this is turning out to be!
That gravity feed is quite cunning. Footprint is waaay too big for my shop, though, sadly. 

I'm tempted to say I won't need huge capacity. I don't tend to work on plate any higher than 12" square. The power hacksaw takes care of anything bar like and that has effectively infinite capacity length wise. What really works for me is that the work gets mounted at the front, not the middle like a horizontal, meaning it sits usabley under the lathe bench. But chopping stock is about all it does...

I _think_ I've found something local I can rip the guts out of or convert. Fingers crossed.


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## talvare (Dec 22, 2020)

I think the footprint on that Dake hybrid saw is at least as big if not bigger than my 18" Grob vertical bandsaw. I do think the gravity feed system is interesting. My Grob bandsaw originally had a gravity feed system but it was missing when I got the saw. I am contemplating adding some sort of feed system to it.
Ted


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## C-Bag (Dec 22, 2020)

I only put the vid up there to show the mechanism I was talking about. That head must be 2x’s the size of the 4x6. That why I thought of the cabinet saw base. That has to be 1/4 the size of the Dake.

when I was looking for a auto feed I went on Frank Ford’s site( a member here) and looked at his 40’s Delta 14”. He had made a sled system for his that used a can full of lead with a cable to pull the sled. I couldn’t find what kind of weight it was and it dawned on me I could use compressed air and regulate the pressure to anything I wanted. Got the 3/4” ram for $12 off eBay. The reg and the air switch I had. The most expensive piece was the special 3/4x3/8 key stock made by Starrett  that was $40.


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## rwm (Dec 22, 2020)

Mine uses a sled with a mounted vise and a gravity autofeed. This pic shows most of it:



The D ring hooks onto the screw that sticks up. That black thing is a pulley. There is a 10 lb weight on the other end of the cord. This works very well and you can walk away during cutting. Gravity keeps a constant force on the cut. That nylon post stops the sled travel after the cut is finished. 
I am putting a 1HP servo motor on my drill press. That would probably work very well on a bandsaw. You can find them on eBay for $100. Mine runs at 4000 rpm so with a gear/pulley reduction that should generate a lot of torque. Then you would also have variable speed which I would love to have.

Robert


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