# Lame attempt at making indexing chuck



## Charley Davidson (Apr 9, 2012)

I set up my indexing head on my Burke, rigged up my collet chuck and an indicator to get all the detents the same and gave it a whirl. Everything was looking fine until I got back around to my starting point. As you can see it didn't turn out too well.


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## 8ntsane (Apr 9, 2012)

Charley

It looks like something slipped out of sync some how.. I hope that back plate wasnt a expensive piece. The only thing I can advise you on is use a spacer plate, or adapter plate like I use on my lathe. That way, if things go bad, you have a piece for another project. Even better, use a disc of a larger OD, and then you dont have to worry about drilling into the chucks mounting bolts. 

A piece of 1 inch thick steel of the same OD, or 1 inch bigger is cheaper than back plates, and if you just spot them first, you could trim it off and start over, provided its over sized. Another thing the spacer/adapter plate is good for, is making your own version of the set true, ajustment. If your using a 3-jaw with 
the back plate or spacer with index holes, it great to get the run out ,out too.


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## Charley Davidson (Apr 9, 2012)

The back plate was cheap & I have another one also. But I think I'll just mount it on the lathe & turn it down till the holes are gone as it's a bit bigger than the chuck anyhow. 

I may have moved the indexing pin as it is mounted with a collar like clamp, I'll give it another whirl.


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## Charley Davidson (Apr 9, 2012)

Gordon Clarke said:


> If at first you don't succeed - think carefully before trying again  Sorry for that and hope you still have a sense of humour
> 
> Something definately has slipped. How about a very small indent and rotate 360º to see if you come back to where "X marks the spot"?
> 
> ...



I was a comedian for 15 years so I still got the SOH:lmao:

I had planned on making a small indent and rotating it 360 before screwing up again

I might go to my shop in a bit and redo it.


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## Charley Davidson (Apr 10, 2012)

*It don't take me 3 times to get it right*

I turned the back plate down till all the holes were gone and took a look at my setup. I had several things that could have contributed to the problem like the collets weren't tight enough, but the real culprit was the brass collar on the indexing head & still could be an issue. When tightening the collet in the indexing head it would turn the whole thing even with the collar tight. I was able to get it tightened enough to do the job and it turned out perfect. Now I need to make the post that holds the detent mechanism and find or make one of those also. maybe tomorrow evening on the mount.


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## 8ntsane (Apr 10, 2012)

Second time is a charm.
Good thing the plate was a bit over size Charley, 
At least you found the cause of the problems, got a handle on dealing with it, and gotter done.
What hole count did you use on the plate?

I guess now you need to make up the parts to clamp to the ways, and the plunger to hold position. You have seen the one I did, and it uses the handle off the rotary table. But I think if I had to do it again, I would just  make a screw in type of deal, and not worry about the spring loaded. Would save a alot of time.

Looking good, and glad you got through the problems


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## Charley Davidson (Apr 10, 2012)

Paul, yours is the one that inspired me to do mine, I still have to make the indexing pin and mount. I'm not sure if I can mount mine very securely on the flat part of my ways as there's not much of a flat area underneath, I may have to put mine on the raised upsidedown V ^ portion.  I like the idea of a screw also pretty simple. Don't know my hole count, forgot to count them but had intended to.


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## 8ntsane (Apr 10, 2012)

Charley

My lathe doesnt have much under the bottom lip either, maybe 3/4 inch. So if you can make it work on the flat, it saves time cutting Vee in the base.

You will need a usefull prime # to get common divisions you want.
I chose 60 holes @ 6 degree,s spacing. That gave me the most usefull line up of divisions. But there are othe usefull prime #s that will work allso.

60 will give you ability of getting 2,3,4,5,6,10,12,15,20,30,60 divisions
Others can be good for less divisions, and more basic. Some guys will only need to put bolt patterns of small evenly spaced #s. Here is for instance

24 will give you 2,3,4,6,8 divisions  very common for bolt patterns used. Spacing on the 24 is every 15 degree,s

Other usefull prime #s
72 is allso a good one.  That will give you 5 degree,s between holes,

Just take your prime #, and divide into 360, then that # by the amount of divisions you want to do. You will soon figure out what a given hole count will, and will not do for you.

Hope I didnt confuse the issue for you


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## 8ntsane (Apr 10, 2012)

Hi Charley

Im not sure exactly what your going to be using your indexer for, but here is a few more idea,s for you. I some times need to cut splines on the ID or OD of parts. I have a variety of dividing plates that I use for direct indexing on the lathe. They are installed on the LH end of the spindle, and indexed with the spring loaded pin as usual.

The arbour is a expanding spindle plug, and the dividing plates bolt on directly. Using the dividing plates on the lathe spindle give me a bunch of divisions that I cant get on the chuck indexer. Just another way of direct indexing on your lathe. 







Thought Id plant the seed, never know what grows from it.  (':thinking:')  (':biggrin:')


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## Charley Davidson (Apr 11, 2012)

Mine has 48 indents, good or bad or so so? I'm assuming that's 7.5 degrees.

Started on my mount and got frustrated with my mill, I'm so ready for a Bridgeport or something of that size & quality


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## 8ntsane (Apr 11, 2012)

Charley Davidson said:


> Mine has 48 indents, good or bad or so so? I'm assuming that's 7.5 degrees.
> 
> Started on my mount and got frustrated with my mill, I'm so ready for a Bridgeport or something of that size & quality



Hey Charley
I havnt pounded the #s , but you have a usable prime # there. With the 48 hole index, you will have common divisions that you would normally use. Tomorrow is another day, maybe the mill will cooperate tomorrow.


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## 8ntsane (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks for the tips Gordon

That would certainly work on a 10 degree spaced plate, and Im sure depending on diameter of the plate, could be very usefull item to add on. The 36 hole plate in his pic looks big enough, that if he wanted to, he could allways make it into a 72 hole plate. The idea you have could work on many other diameters though.

For Charley,s 48 hole setup he will have all the divisions of the 24 hole , and then some. Ive often wondered how much trouble a vernier scale would be to make it even more versatile.  I have allso read about a 2-plate vernier, but cant find anything about them. Just thinking out load


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## Charley Davidson (Apr 11, 2012)

Etard, I have been thinking about using a gear/sprocket in the same manor, just couldn't find one I could use at the scrap yard. Never really thought about the split one though.


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## 8ntsane (Apr 11, 2012)

Hey Guys

For most of you that have non gear head machines, you might want to have a look in the end gear train. Many times there is usable tooth counts on the gears.
I used to use the end gears on my old 12X37 lathe for many dividing tasks. On my 41 Sidney, its a gear head machine, and I dont really have that option any longer. The only way for me on this lathe, is idexing either from the chucks adapter plate, or using the expanding spindle arbour as in the pics.

The plunger assembly can be done in such a way, that it could engage the tip of the gear, and also the root of the gear to further expand dividing capabilitys. My old 12X37 had the detent set up mounted behind the end gearing cover, and to use it was quick and easy. Open the cover door, loosen one bolt to ajust position, and lock in the starting point.

Just thought Id mention this, because many dont realize that the gears in the LH end train, many times have all thats needed to do simple dividing in the lathe, The user just needs to find a crafty way of holding these positions.


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## 8ntsane (Apr 12, 2012)

Gordon
Will be interested to hear what your idea is.
The only other thing Ive thought of is, cutting V notches at low depth. I figured I could get more room on any given diameter, but never tried that method.

Ill be watching for you next idea


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## Galileu (Apr 12, 2012)

Hi,

Have a look at this thread: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/3075-Quick-and-Dirty-Dividing-Head?p=24925#post24925. He manges to lock the wheel both on the teeth and between teeth, thus doubling the number of stops.

José


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## 8ntsane (Apr 12, 2012)

Galileu said:


> Hi,
> 
> Have a look at this thread: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/3075-Quick-and-Dirty-Dividing-Head?p=24925#post24925. He manges to lock the wheel both on the teeth and between teeth, thus doubling the number of stops.
> 
> José



Thats exactly what I was talking about in post #20


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## 8ntsane (Apr 13, 2012)

I dont know why I cant open those type of files, but I guess Im not going to see this one. Anyone able to repost this directly?


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## ScrapMetal (Apr 13, 2012)

8ntsane said:


> I dont know why I cant open those type of files, but I guess Im not going to see this one. Anyone able to repost this directly?



On it!  Here you go...





Little small but readable,

-Ron


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## 8ntsane (Apr 13, 2012)

Ron
Thanks for getting that reposted.
Im going to have to figure out why I cant open them. Blowing it up isnt a problem, so Ill be checking it out. If Gordon posts up any more on this topic, could you repost it again for me? Thanks again Ron


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## ScrapMetal (Apr 13, 2012)

Gordon Clarke said:


> Ron aka ScrapMetal,
> 
> Sorry about this but have updated the PDF file as I found a couple of mistakes that I felt should be changed.
> 
> ...




It's no problem Gordon as it doesn't take much to put it up, a few mouse clicks.  I included the updates in the above post so that the erroneous one is no longer visible.

The speed "through the internet" may have something to do with your host/server.  Chances are that it scans this type of file for viruses before "passing them on".

-Ron


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## Tony Wells (Apr 13, 2012)

There is a Pi error in the .pdf. Pi is ~3.1416, not ~3.1406. Don't know what effect it will have on your vernier project, but it's there.


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## Tony Wells (Apr 14, 2012)

Well, since you only ran it out to 4 decimal places, that's all I gave as well. I think most people realize that it is a non-repeating, non-terminating, irrational, transcendental numerical expression of the ratio of the circumference of a circle to it's diameter.


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## Charley Davidson (Apr 15, 2012)

Gordon Clarke said:


> It'd be nice if someone came up with suggestions re the vernier indexer or is it just not interesting?
> 
> Gordon



Gordon, this thread has went from "my lame attempt at making an indexig chuck" through several different styles/methods of indexers to your vernier one. I don't care about the thread shifting but it may do you more justice starting a thread specificaly for you Vernier indexer. I truly don't care if it continues here just saying it may get more attention in it's own thread.

I like your ideas/drawings/tool designs & think they deserve a place of their own where they get the proper exposure


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## ScrapMetal (Apr 15, 2012)

I'll second what Charlie said.  It does deserve attention but on the end of this thread I think it's suffering from lack of exposure.  Definitely start a new thread with it.

-Ron


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## Charley Davidson (Apr 15, 2012)

Threads seem to have a short shelf life & whither on the vine even if they are good threads


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## 8ntsane (Apr 15, 2012)

I know this kind of has gone off the path some what, I quess it didnt help with my comment about vernier scales thrown into the mix. Sorry Charley, it wasnt ment to hi jack your idexer thread, it was intended to add to the whole sceme of things.

I my self do have interest in the verier scale setup, But I do think it maybe a little
off base from the simple indexer. If Gordon feels like starting his own thread on this topic, I cant see any problem doing so. The verier scale probably doesnt grab the attention that other topics would, but I do have a interest in making one for my setup, as I do alot of indexing on my lathe for many different types of work.
If he does, Ron, could you repost those files again? I still dont know whats going on with that.


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## Charley Davidson (Apr 15, 2012)

You don't have to apologize, there was nothing wrong it just drifted off and the title of this thread doesn't help Gordon's cause at all

Was just pointing out why it may not be getting any attention.


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## ScrapMetal (Apr 16, 2012)

8ntsane said:


> If he does, Ron, could you repost those files again? I still dont know whats going on with that.



No problem, glad to help any time.  If I get some time today I'll see if I can find any info on what may be the problem opening Gordon's .pdfs.    If you get a chance, and don't mind, let me know what operating system you're on, Windows XP, 7, Apple OS, etc. as well as the version of Adobe reader you have (if you can find it, if not we won't worry about it).

-Ron


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