# Tooling Question?



## Gfrost (Apr 18, 2017)

Well, I purchased a Tida TD5A Saturday, my first lathe!! 
I have wanted a lathe for a very long time, I like to play with rifles and want get into hobby gunsmithing and assembling my own rifles as precise as possible on my own!
Now I am in need of some other items, Live Center, tail stock drill chuck, high speed tooling, dial indicators and a machinist level. These are just to start with that I figure I need right away or as soon as I can afford!


Question is where to start? Are the cheap ebay products a waste of money or are they ok? Or on what items should I spend more money and what items can I skimp on?


Gary


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## owl (Apr 18, 2017)

Assuming your lathe came with a chuck, I would start with a bench grinder and some HSS bit blanks.  Add a live center, tailstock chuck, and center drills when you can.  While there are some very good (expensive) ones available, the cheap ones are a good start.  A harbor freight dial indicator on a reasonably good stand will probably serve better than a Starrett on a lousy stand.


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## T Bredehoft (Apr 18, 2017)

You can search Ebay for lathe tooling, sort out what you want. don't buy the cheapest, nor the most expensive. In general you can find what you want for less than retail, search for free shipping, too.


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## scwhite (Apr 18, 2017)

Gfrost said:


> Well, I purchased a Tida TD5A Saturday, my first lathe!!
> I have wanted a lathe for a very long time, I like to play with rifles and want get into hobby gunsmithing and assembling my own rifles as precise as possible on my own!
> Now I am in need of some other items, Live Center, tail stock drill chuck, high speed tooling, dial indicators and a machinist level. These are just to start with that I figure I need right away or as soon as I can afford!
> 
> ...


Don't skimp on Drill bits or taps
Buy the very best you can
And you want be sorry for that
They will out last everything cheap
You might pay three times as much
But I promise you you want regreat it


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## DAT510 (Apr 18, 2017)

Congrats on the new lathe.  The TD5A is very similar to Jet 1024/1236, Grizzly 12x37, and other lathes.  If you need manuals you can find them here:  http://www.hobby-machinist.com/resources/categories/jet.636/  Each of the manuals from the various mfg's often has info not covered in the other manuals.  I put a group of manuals together as a "super manual" for my lathe.  The Grizzly manual is the most thorough.

Grizzly still sells parts for their 12x37 (even though they no longer sell the lathe), which is same as the Jet 1024/1236 lathes and from the looks of the TD5A manual, also your lathe.  So if you are missing any parts such as treading gears, you may be able to get them from Grizzly.  My Jet 1024 was missing some of the treading gears, the gears I got from Grizzly were a perfect fit.    http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-x-37-Belt-Drive-Gap-Bed-Lathe/G9249

If your lathe didn't come with one, I'd would consider getting a Quick Change Tool Post.  I have a wedge style, AXA size, Phase II+ on my lathe.  The QCTP's make life a lot nicer.  I got mine as a NIB set on eBay for ~$200.


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## Gfrost (Apr 18, 2017)

Actually the lathe came with 3 and 4 jaw chucks, an AXA plunger style tool post with assorted tool holders, a steady rest and tail stock.
Also the a drip pan, but the gentlemen  that had the lathe had built a heavy 1/4" top table for the lathe that he included as well!

It is good to know that the Grizzly 12x37 may have be a close cousin, I may want to get some change gears to cut Metric threads??
I did check all the gears on the entire machine and did not find any broken gears, there are some corners that look a little marred here and there which I figure is to be expected with a machine of this age.
The gear in the #1 position(the smallest gear) in the quick change gear box is a little NOISY, but doesn't look damaged!

I have a bench grinder. There was a small piece of HSS .250" tooling that was broken in one of the tool holders that was ground for threading, I went ahead and ground the other end for cutting and was playing with it on a piece of aluminum round stock That being said I need more!

So what I gather I can skimp a little on the live center and the drill chuck but not on the tooling or drills etc.

So you think that the inexpensive dial/test indicators are safe to go with??? From say Grizzly, Harbor Freight, or Ebay???


Thank you all for all the replies, this is going to be fun!!

Gary


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## jlsmithseven (Apr 18, 2017)

Again, I highly recommend "Anytime Tools" as a manufacturer. They're quality is just superb for what they're asking. They have a center drill set for like $12 that is very accurate and very nice. I'd get that as soon as you can because you will always need center drills. Good luck with the lathe!


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## owl (Apr 19, 2017)

I have found the Harbor Freight indicators to be satisfactory, They are built with plastic parts, but they are cheap enough that if they start to stick, they can be replaced.  What is more important to me is the holder.  If it takes 5 minutes to set up, or sags the least bit, it is pretty useless.  You need a holder that is easy to secure to the lathe, and is absolutely rigid if you are going to use an indicator to set up work in a 4 jaw chuck, or use it to control the feed.  If the holder lets the indicator move a tenth of an inch, it really doesn't matter if the indicator reads to the millionth.


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## mikey (Apr 19, 2017)

Gfrost said:


> Actually the lathe came with 3 and 4 jaw chucks, an AXA plunger style tool post with assorted tool holders, a steady rest and tail stock.
> Also the a drip pan, but the gentlemen  that had the lathe had built a heavy 1/4" top table for the lathe that he included as well!
> 
> It is good to know that the Grizzly 12x37 may have be a close cousin, I may want to get some change gears to cut Metric threads??
> ...



Gary, if change gears for your lathe are available, get the entire set. One day they won't be available and you'll wish you bought them. Many of us feel that a lathe is not complete without a complete change gear set.

When you consider the accessories for your machine, think about what they contribute to accuracy. A live center can determine how accurately you can turn. Ask a guy who owns a Royal or Skoda live center if it makes a difference. The larger the work piece, the bigger the difference it makes. 

Your choice of drill chucks is less of an issue but even here there are good and less good choices. In my opinion, the best keyless chucks are made by Albrecht and you can get a good used one on ebay for almost what a cheap Chinese chuck goes for. 

As for indicators and other measuring tools, keep in mind that you can only cut as accurately as you can measure. I know, I know, for hobby guys cheap is good but there is good cheap and junk cheap. Ebay has made it possible to buy some of the finest metrology tools for very near what a cheap Chinese tool costs. You just need to know what to look for. Go here to learn about these tools:http://www.longislandindicator.com/

Welcome to the Slippery Slope!


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## Gfrost (Apr 19, 2017)

Well, since I already have an 1 SPI indicator, I opted to order another that is identical and just bought cheap magnetic bases at Harbor Freight for $12 each.
While ordering the Indicator I also ordered and inexpensive Live Center and Arbor/chuck as well, spent less than $100 for all four items shipped.
Initially nothing needs to be real precise, just want to be able to use the lathe and build ability! When needed I will probably get a different Live Center!

I do have another Question, in regards to HSS and boring bars! What size do most of you use when it comes to the HSS Stock? Am I correct in thinking that, the project dictates the size of the tooling??
And I imagine the size of the stock determines the size of the Boring Bar??

My first project is probably going to be a Spider for the Lathe, so you can see where I am going at least initially! 


Gary


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## scwhite (Apr 19, 2017)

Gfrost said:


> Well, since I already have an 1 SPI indicator, I opted to order another that is identical and just bought cheap magnetic bases at Harbor Freight for $12 each.
> While ordering the Indicator I also ordered and inexpensive Live Center and Arbor/chuck as well, spent less than $100 for all four items shipped.
> Initially nothing needs to be real precise, just want to be able to use the lathe and build ability! When needed I will probably get a different Live Center!
> 
> ...


I have bought HSS square tool bits of ever
Size from 1/8 through 1/2 and I get a lot of them
I might have 5  to 10 in ever size
When I grind a tool say I grind a 3/8 RH turning tool
Or a 5/16  45 degree tool .
     I will try to leave that one tool  dedicate to that shape . Now all I have to do is just touch up the tool
From time to time .
     I also have a small boring bar that requires
3/16 round HSS . I got 3 each 3" long
I can grind a lot of deferent tools out of 9"
Of stock
       I like Co5 cobalt HSS and Mo- Max HSS


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## scwhite (Apr 19, 2017)

Armstrong High Speed Is Always good
Made In USA
     Most of my high speed tool bits
     Are made in China
      I order from MSC tool company 
Interstate brand


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## Gfrost (Apr 19, 2017)

Scwhite,  Thank you for the replies, very helpful!!

Thank you everyone for the replies!!


Gary


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## mikey (Apr 19, 2017)

Gfrost said:


> Well, since I already have an 1 SPI indicator, I opted to order another that is identical and just bought cheap magnetic bases at Harbor Freight for $12 each.
> While ordering the Indicator I also ordered and inexpensive Live Center and Arbor/chuck as well, spent less than $100 for all four items shipped.
> Initially nothing needs to be real precise, just want to be able to use the lathe and build ability! When needed I will probably get a different Live Center!
> 
> ...



Gary, what you buy is entirely up to you, your needs and your budget. Just know what your options are and spend your money wisely.

For a 12" lathe, 3/8" HSS bits are sufficient. You can go bigger but it isn't necessary, is more expensive and it takes longer to grind them. Chinese bits are fine for learning on but later on, buy good tool bits because it makes a difference. The tool holder will largely determine what size tooling you use; you have to be able to get the tip of the tool on center.

The size and material the boring bar is made from is determined by the depth  and size of the bore. You will be using the biggest boring bar you can fit into the hole and still clear the chips. If the bore is less than or equal to 4 times the diameter of the bar then you can use a steel bar. If it is greater than 4 times then you should be using a carbide bar. Much depends on the precision you require. If all you need to do is to make a spider to fit stock on the other end of your spindle then just a cheap Chinese bar will do you. If you need to bore to tight tolerances then the whole game changes.


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## tq60 (Apr 19, 2017)

Check your yellow pages for machinery dealers and call all of them.

Ask if they sell used items.

Ww have one that has many items bounce through their place so we stop by when near.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk


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## Silverbullet (Apr 19, 2017)

Don't forget , way oil , cutting and tapping fluid . Deburring tool, chip hook to pull chip build up away from the chuck. You can make some tools . Keep an eye on craigslist too ,


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## eeler1 (Apr 19, 2017)

as mentioned, a good indicator or test indicator is pretty important, since 10ths matter in gunsmithing.  you are going to be polishing,  crowns and leads and what not, so what you need to do that is a kinda big deal.  watch a lot of videos on what you are doing, with a grain of salt, and see how they do things and what tooling they use.  good luck, have fun, and be safe.


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## david sobel (Apr 23, 2017)

scwhite said:


> I have bought HSS square tool bits of ever
> Size from 1/8 through 1/2 and I get a lot of them
> I might have 5  to 10 in ever size
> When I grind a tool say I grind a 3/8 RH turning tool
> ...


When I was going thur an apprenticeship and working in a shop they made us learn to grind our own tool bits. Instead of destroying HHS stock that is not cheap, get some square crs (cold rolled steel), cut it up in 3" lengths, and have fun.   If you see blue you have overheated it. Practice, practice and more practice.  Not hard to do.  Get a set of pre-ground HHS from Little Machine Shop as samples of the right shapes as examples.  Have fun burning you fingers as the stock gets hot.  Also buy a wheel dresser for your grinder. You can not grind a cutting bit on a bad wheel.


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## scwhite (Apr 23, 2017)

david sobel said:


> When I was going thur an apprenticeship and working in a shop they made us learn to grind our own tool bits. Instead of destroying HHS stock that is not cheap, get some square crs (cold rolled steel), cut it up in 3" lengths, and have fun.   If you see blue you have overheated it. Practice, practice and more practice.  Not hard to do.  Get a set of pre-ground HHS from Little Machine Shop as samples of the right shapes as examples.  Have fun burning you fingers as the stock gets hot.  Also buy a wheel dresser for your grinder. You can not grind a cutting bit on a bad wheel.


That's a good idea to practice on blank key stock 
Cheap way to learn


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## Charles Spencer (Apr 24, 2017)

Gfrost said:


> So you think that the inexpensive dial/test indicators are safe to go with?



Yes.  I bought 5 Shars indicators before I found a good deal on a lot of 16 BC Ames and Federal indicators.  Both work perfectly well for me.

Get some Dykem for marking your work.


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## Gfrost (Apr 24, 2017)

Thank you for all the replies, good stuff!!!

Well I have started on my first project, turned down a short section of Square Aluminum to be made into an outboard spider!
At this point I am waiting on some items that I have already ordered, I have not ordered a boring bar as yet but I have been looking at all the options.
I have a boring bar holder for the tool post, but I have seen the Tailstock boring bar heads that are available for a little extra cost!

Question is, what is the better way to go?


Gary


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## brino (Apr 24, 2017)

Gary, there's a bunch of advice and recommendations on boring and threading bars here:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/internal-threading-tool.58002/

-brino


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## NortonDommi (Apr 29, 2017)

Hi Gary,
               A little off subject but up here we have to deal with Imperial,(or realspeak),and metrickery and I find I'm always jumping from one to the other so here's a little program called 'convert' that is so useful it is permantly on my desktop.
  Another handy program that will save a huge amount of time especialy when you need to cut a thread that is not on your chart is 'LatheGears',(LGV1.2),written by a nice bloke in Aus. and given to the world.
Sorry, LGV1.2 is not allowed. PM me and I'll send.
  - Barry.


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## NortonDommi (Apr 29, 2017)

No, got it.
  - Barry.


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## tjb (May 9, 2017)

Gfrost said:


> Well, I purchased a Tida TD5A Saturday, my first lathe!!
> I have wanted a lathe for a very long time, I like to play with rifles and want get into hobby gunsmithing and assembling my own rifles as precise as possible on my own!
> Now I am in need of some other items, Live Center, tail stock drill chuck, high speed tooling, dial indicators and a machinist level. These are just to start with that I figure I need right away or as soon as I can afford!
> 
> ...


Congratulations on your purchase, Gary.  I, too, just acquired a lathe that (I think) is very similar to yours.  Mine is a 1976 Kin Shin model KS3.5FK.  It's my understanding that both of these lathes are essentially the same as a Jet 1024.  I got mine for a very good price because although it is in excellent condition, it is missing the motor and pulley that go on the motor.  Any chance you could post a picture of the motor, motor spec plate, and pulley from your lathe?  Don't want to waste time or money getting the wrong thing.  I have another larger lathe, but this one is so nice, I was anxious to get it and perhaps set it up for a dedicated function.

You'll get wise counsel from this website, and as I become familiar with my machine, I'll try to offer you some as well.  For starters, some have responded that it is generally best to stay 'middle of the road' price/quality wise.  I generally agree with that advice.  I figured out a long time ago: You buy it cheap, you buy it twice.  Spend the money to get the RIGHT tool (not necessarily the most expensive).  Then, you usually buy it once and actually save money.  Unless of course, you're like the rest of us and occasionally butcher something (your day will come).

Regards and thanks in advance.
Terry


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## Tozguy (May 9, 2017)

Welcome to HM. 
If you are making an outboard spider then you must be planning to thread and chamber barrels through the headstock. If that is the case, what size is the bore in your spindle?
The tooling you need for barrel work will depend on how you want to go about it. My choice was to hold barrels through the headstock (bore is 1.44'') using a spider on both ends of the spindle. The chamber is cut by drilling and preboring so that the finishing reamer has a straight hole to follow.
No need for special floating reamer holders. Looking forward to following your progress.


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## Gfrost (May 10, 2017)

tjb said:


> Congratulations on your purchase, Gary.  I, too, just acquired a lathe that (I think) is very similar to yours.  Mine is a 1976 Kin Shin model KS3.5FK.  It's my understanding that both of these lathes are essentially the same as a Jet 1024.  I got mine for a very good price because although it is in excellent condition, it is missing the motor and pulley that go on the motor.  Any chance you could post a picture of the motor, motor spec plate, and pulley from your lathe?  Don't want to waste time or money getting the wrong thing.  I have another larger lathe, but this one is so nice, I was anxious to get it and perhaps set it up for a dedicated function.
> 
> You'll get wise counsel from this website, and as I become familiar with my machine, I'll try to offer you some as well.  For starters, some have responded that it is generally best to stay 'middle of the road' price/quality wise.  I generally agree with that advice.  I figured out a long time ago: You buy it cheap, you buy it twice.  Spend the money to get the RIGHT tool (not necessarily the most expensive).  Then, you usually buy it once and actually save money.  Unless of course, you're like the rest of us and occasionally butcher something (your day will come).
> 
> ...



The guy that I bought this from stated that, the previous owner had replaced the motor! That being said it seems to work great!
I will take some pictures tonight of the motor and any info on the motor as well as the pulley system and post them tomorrow, hopefully!!




Tozguy said:


> Welcome to HM.
> If you are making an outboard spider then you must be planning to thread and chamber barrels through the headstock. If that is the case, what size is the bore in your spindle?
> The tooling you need for barrel work will depend on how you want to go about it. My choice was to hold barrels through the headstock (bore is 1.44'') using a spider on both ends of the spindle. The chamber is cut by drilling and preboring so that the finishing reamer has a straight hole to follow.
> No need for special floating reamer holders. Looking forward to following your progress.



I am planning on doing some hobby gunsmithing including threading and chambering barrels.
I am almost done with the outboard spindle, may need to come up with a different chuck, bore of chuck is only around an inch or so?
The spindle bore is 1.375".  I would be interested in your drilling and preboring procedure??

I have a takeoff barrel that I was going to practice on, it is currently chambered in .338 jamison that I was going to try chambering to .338 edge and then possible thread the end for a brake or something!


Gary


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## Tozguy (May 10, 2017)

Gary,

The drill and prebore approach was explained to me by Butch Lambert. After the bore is zeroed in using the spider and chuck, it involves drilling to a depth and diameter just short of the shoulder of the cartridge (after referring to the reamer drawing). Then a boring bar is used to taper the hole to match the body taper angle of the reamer. You should aim to make a hole around .015'' smaller than the finished dimensions of the chamber. 
Then the finishing reamer is guided by the taper bore so reamer pilot fit to the bore is not critical. All you need is a tap wrench to hold the reamer and something flat in the tail stock to push the reamer. You also need an accurate way to control how deep the reamer goes.
Butch calls this the machinist's approach because concentricity of the chamber to the bore is determined by the boring operation and not by special floating reamer holders or tight fitting pilot bushings. It does require using the spiders expertly to avoid inadvertently bending (stressing) the barrel. 
That's it in a nutshell but if you want more explanation please feel free to use my email.


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