# G0602 Vs. G0752 Variable Speed worth it?



## BroncoSquid

I have been looking for a small Lathe to go with my small Mill (Rockwell 21-100) for about a year now. I have sort of settled on the Grizzly 10X22. I am a complete novice other than reading books and playing with the mill.
My question is, is the variable speed option worth the $350? Or am I better off with the G0602 and a quick change tool post?
:nervous:


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## bosephus

I went with the g0602 

I do want variable speed one day but i did the math and i can buy a good frequency drive and convert it cheaper my self and have a much higher quality motor to boot .

But then i also live in the rust belt and second hand three phase motors are dirt cheap in my part of the world 

I also considered the speed range of the lathe how grizzly has it set up and when i do mine id like to get the low end a good bit slower then the variable speed version is capeable of going


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## george wilson

I worry about Chinese electronics. I'd get the separate VFD because if anything goes wrong,I'll bet you won't be able to get a spare part in a few years from Grizzly. That's the way it is these days. Even Sears used to guarantee spare parts for 10 years. No more.  With a separate VFD you can easily replace the box without defacing the lathe.

I bought a Jet variable speed wet grinder with built in variable speed. It worked a few hours and went dead. A few DEALERS told me those often are dead out of the box new!! After a major hassle with Jet,they sent me a new printed circuit board. When I went to install it,I found out the push on connecters were literally as thin as aluminum beer cans. Maybe thinner. When the assembly person pushed them on,they'd crack,soon losing contact. I soldered the cracked connector and the grinder worked again,till it went dead again. A friend GAVE me a Tormek wet wheel grinder,which is a much more expensive machine,so I haven't bothered to get into the Jet again. I should have soldered ALL the connecters.

Something like this shows how fragile Chinese electronic stuff is. That is why I'd opt for a separate VFD that I CAN replace down the road. If your lathe just stops working,with the built in unit,you may have some major gutting to do to get rid of it. Then,you'll have a silly looking built in speed control on your lathe that no longer works,while you reach for the VFD.


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## coolidge

george wilson said:


> I worry about Chinese electronics. I'd get the separate VFD because if anything goes wrong,I'll bet you won't be able to get a spare part in a few years from Grizzly. That's the way it is these days. Even Sears used to guarantee spare parts for 10 years. No more.  With a separate VFD you can easily replace the box without defacing the lathe.
> 
> I bought a Jet variable speed wet grinder with built in variable speed. It worked a few hours and went dead. A few DEALERS told me those often are dead out of the box new!! After a major hassle with Jet,they sent me a new printed circuit board. When I went to install it,I found out the push on connecters were literally as thin as aluminum beer cans. Maybe thinner. When the assembly person pushed them on,they'd crack,soon losing contact. I soldered the cracked connector and the grinder worked again,till it went dead again. A friend GAVE me a Tormek wet wheel grinder,which is a much more expensive machine,so I haven't bothered to get into the Jet again. I should have soldered ALL the connecters.
> 
> Something like this shows how fragile Chinese electronic stuff is. That is why I'd opt for a separate VFD that I CAN replace down the road. If your lathe just stops working,with the built in unit,you may have some major gutting to do to get rid of it. Then,you'll have a silly looking built in speed control on your lathe that no longer works,while you reach for the VFD.



Precisely why I backed off buying a Chinese mill stuffed to the gills with electronics. It had gobs of features but I don't believe they are designing the electronics to last much longer than the 1 year warranty.


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## Baithog

Like most machine decisions, it depends on what you want to do with the lathe. The belt/pulley system turns a bit fast for a lot of uses. Mild steel with HSS tooling tops out around 2.5" - cobalt and carbide will go higher. You'd be down to half that or more for alloy or stainless. For free machining aluminum, you could go up to 7 inches or so.

I am happy with my 602 at this point. It was at the limit of affordability when I got it. I am now getting a bigger mill and may do more work in steel and other harder metals, so I may be forced to do something about the low speed limit in the future. So with the clarity of hindsight, I would have done more begging and had the 752. 

Here is the trade-off for variable speed drive: 

The 752 is designed with all of the vfd components in the machines envelope. Grizzly sels machines that are a step up in the Chinese quality hierarchy, so it will probably serve trouble free long enough to justify the $350. The downside is the potential lack of long term parts supply. This would be at least partially mitigated by being able to replace the drive and/or the motor from other sources.

Converting the 602 to VFD allows flexibility, if you are comfortable with electrical design and construction. Drop-in metric compatible motors are available, sometimes even on sale. There is a verity of single to three phase vfds on the market with all sorts of features, The downside is that the vfd will reside outboard to the lathe unless you cut up the front panel and rewire it. It will usually cost $400 or more for the parts  plus whatever you value your labor.

Going back and do it again, I would do option 1. And because I didn't, I will eventually do option 2


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## jtwade

My experience with Chinese made electronics makes me believe that, like you, they are at best, designed to last close to the warranty as possible.  At worst to just getting out of the place they are made. Had a Chinese made machine where I use to work that had three electronic boards replaced( under warranty ) in 6 months. Probably would have been more, but it took 3 weeks or more to get them after failure. Boss did replace it with  a better unit before it failed again.


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## olduhfguy

My experience with the mini lathe and mini mill electronics suggests that there is nothing technically wrong with the Chinese controls, the main problem is the manufacturer's paranoia against copyright infringement by other factories in SE Asia so there is little or no official repair information out there, and we are left to reverse engineer most of their products in order to repair them.

The type of repairs I have seen are about 20% factory defects , about 50% abuse and 30% external surges and spikes. Since the latter two are preventable I would submit that the controls aren't that bad - In fact I see almost the same percentages with the KB control boards made in Florida. FWIW, KB doesn't provide service information or parts either and I can't blame them, since I have seen a Chinese copy of a KB board in my shop !

-Pete


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## bosephus

one more thing to consider , a vfd also adds a few features you do not get with the go752 
one is soft starts  another is being able to program in braking .
the braking doesnt seem like a very important feature up until the first time you need it ... a good easy example is metric threading to a shoulder , having the ability to brake the machine instead of just guessing how far it will coast sure would be nice .
as would being able to add that braking to your e stop button for an emergancy


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## george wilson

I have had several Grizzly machines. Had 2 16" lathes. I bought 2 Taiwan made 16x40's in 1986. One for the shop,and 1 for my home shop. We did not use the one at work all the time,not even every day,or perhaps every week. We made all kinds of tools for Williamsburg museum. We wore the one at work out in 10 years. Actually,that included fixing the carriage several times,and the motor blew out. Had to replace that-the Chinese do not dip their armatures in varnish,so the motor arced across the bearings and blew out. The electricians said the motor was crap.

My lathe at home hasn't been used much. I do mostly small work,and have a Hardinge HLVH that I use all the time. I'm still waiting for the dreaded motor to blow out.

The lathe is quite accurate,but I would not EVER recommend it for use in any kind of production shop. And,this lathe is TAIWAN MADE,not Chinese.

Jon,my journeyman,has a 12" belt drive Grizzly that they took 2 years to get parts for. His QC gear box went bad. Now,the lathe won't feed. We looked at it,and the gear that runs in the rack is all dubbed over. I was going to fix that for him(as there are NO parts at all now). However,we found the rack itself is terribly chewed up,with teeth missing in several places. The rack seems like it might be made of cast iron. I would not be surprised. The Chinese seem to cast every thing they can.

The rack on his lathe is also just plain too SMALL. It looks like it is 7/16" square. And,this on a 12" lathe.

So where am I going with this????? I'd not be so sure Grizzly is a STEP UP from any one else's Chinese stuff.


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## BroncoSquid

Thank you all for the replies. I see I have much more research to do before I lay down my hard earned cash. Fortunately I have 7 more months in my deployment to do so. I see VFD's are one of the things I need to get smart on.


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## SeattleKent

I'm in the same boat as the OP. A couple of things to add. If you look at the Grizzly parts list the VFD is the Delta VFD007E11A. This Delta is an electronics company located in Taiwan. See http://www.delta.com.tw. The unit is full featured. It has dynamic braking and open loop vector control. All pretty typical. If the VFD goes one can get a replacement on the general market. A quick search found a couple of sites selling the units. VFDs are commodities now so I don't think there is that much difference between units from different companies.

The motor is simply listed as "MOTOR 1 HP 220V 3-PH". Who knows how good it is. 

So buying G0602 would likely give a better motor, same quality VFD, and and the work of the conversion. (Might be a fun project to tackle.) Probably also more expensive. VFD + motor + tach + box + wiring > $350. 

The G0752 gives better integration in the lathe (no box on the side), less work, unknown quality motor, and maybe a bit less flexibility on the VFD.

When I first started looking at this I thought the G0602 was the way to go. I figured they would use a single phase motor and some rheostat. No, they did a good job. That is good in that the G0752 is better. Bad in that it makes it a more difficult choice.

My $0.02 worth.


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## NightWing

I sent an email to Grizzly asking if it would be possible to convert my 602 to the 752 variable speed drive.

Seems to me that it would be a matter of laying the parts lists and diagrams side by side and sorting out the differences from the common parts.

I will post their reply when I hear back.


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## NightWing

OK, I got an answer from Grizzly:

_Thank you for your email dated December 24, 2014.
_
_While it would be possible to retrofit the G0602 to the G0752 VS Lathe, it is not very cost effective to do so.  The motor and VFD as aftermarket parts have a combined cost of $1,300.00 and that does not include all of the parts required to convert the lathe.  You would, in all honesty, be better off selling the G0602 and purchasing a new G0752 to save money, as the G0752 is currently priced at $1,595.00 plus shipping and handling._
_  If we may be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.  You are a valued customer, and we look forward to serving your future woodworking and metalworking needs.

_So, I guess it is out of the question, financially.


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## RVJimD

I got my G0752 several months ago and I am completely happy with it and the VFD.  I do not have a bunch of experience with anything else so tKe it with a grain of salt.  I have been working with 1018, brass and 6061.  It is nice for threading, I like seeing the RPM and I do adjust the speed for rough and finish operations on aluminum.  When I looked at the 602 vs 752 it looked to me like guys that we adding VFD to a 602 were spending about the same money as the difference of the two lathes out of the box.  I didn't want to or have the electrical experience to mess with it.  Like I said, I don't have the experience to compare but if I were doing it again, I would still get the 752.

jim


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## ilamansky

I am going with the G0602.  I have been looking a used lathes for over a year.  Missed a $1500 fully tooled SB with collets and all the goodies.  It was gone in hours... sigh.
But I never got to inspect it and you know the ways could have been pretty worn up near the chuck.
So, back to looking for new.  Precision Mathews, Seigs, Jet, and the offerings at Little Machine Shop.
The Hi Torques at LMS looked really nice but no thread dial?  The thought of doing an inside thread, having to stop the lathe (before crashing, I hope), retract the tool, turning the lathe back on in reverse, advancing the tool and starting again seems a bit daunting.
The G0602 has all the threads I need for now.  No power cross feed but I have lived without that before.
And a reverse tumbler project would be a nice way to get back into the shop after a very long absence.
I agree with others that an additional $450 for a variable speed that only goes down to 100 is not worth it.
Then Grizzly went and threw in a discount for veterans and that did it.
Order is going in tomorrow morning.
Finally.


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## tmarks11

NightWing said:


> OK, I got an answer from Grizzly..._While it would be possible to retrofit the G0602 to the G0752 VS Lathe, it is not very cost effective to do so.  The motor and VFD as aftermarket parts have a combined cost of $1,300.00..._



Not true at all.  VFD + motor for $200-400 (depending on brand and source).  This is a very common conversion.

http://www.rcdon.com/html/the_reverse_tumbler_project3.html
http://www.projectsinmetal.com/foru...install-a-vfd-on-a-grizzly-g0602-10x22-lathe/
http://www.projectsinmetal.com/forum/general-discussion/g0602-variable-speed-motor/

The financial reality is this: VFD, motor, wiring, and rpm indication will cost you altogether maybe $50 (if you shop frugally) more than the difference between the G0602 and the G0752.  Since it costs more, why would you want to do it yourself?
- Can pick a higher quality motor that will last longer and operate smoother
- Can source electronics that are easily replaceable in the event something breaks (vs. maybe waiting months for a replacement VFD control board from Grizzly)

As mentioned above, the Chinese VS electronics tend to be low quality.  Grizzly has had major problems in the past with the controller boards for their G0619 mill, hopefully we won't see a repeat of that on the G0752.


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## NightWing

Read my post again.  Grizzly quoted the price of the conversion parts being purchased from them, which is what I asked.


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## tmarks11

NightWing said:


> Read my post again.  Grizzly quoted the price of the conversion parts being purchased from them, which is what I asked.


I understand that. I was not doubting your words, but merely stating that Grizzly was quoting a cost for conversion that is far exceeding what you would be able to do from other sources.

Especially since grizzly stated "the aftermarket VFD and motor cost" implying that any solution was majorly expensive.

Maybe I worded my response poorly.

I forgot that the G0752 actually used a commercial VFD rather than a motor controller board like some of their cheaper mills.  It is a Delta VFD #007E11A, which gives you the advantage of finding a drop-in replacement easily, and probably being more reliable than a no-name control board.  With that in mind, it probably worth buying the G0752 vs the G0704 and converting it yourself... although you could end up with a much better quality motor if you did it yourself. A 1 hp 3 phase Leeson can be found pretty cheap if you search hard enough.

If you already owned a G0602, the cost with aftermarket parts as I said before is still only about $350.  Worth doing the conversion instead of selling the Go704 and buying the G0752.

Grizzly charges $411 for the 1 HP 3 phase motor, which is a rip off.  And they charge $990 for the 1HP VFD, which is highway robbery (you can find the 1Hp Delta VFD-E elsewhere for $250)... replacement parts are never cheap...

http://www.grizzly.com/parts/P0752611
http://www.grizzly.com/parts/P0752620


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## RVJimD

Before I bought my G0752 I searched just a bit for this comparison of costs of DIY vs Grizzly.  I didn't look too hard but what I thought I found indicated that it would be cheaper by just a little order the G0752 ready to go vs DIY.  but, the biggest things for me was, I didn't really want to do the conversion, wanted it to look like a factory install and not something I butchered together (don't take that the wrong way, most of you guys would do a very nice install), and I wanted VFD now.

Jim


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## ilamansky

The G0602 has shipped!  Ordered Friday morning and delivery is expected Wednesday "by the end of the day".
Gees!  I better have my act together including movers pallets and my trusty portable hoist!  Grizzly was pretty fast once Visa cleared.
Am I just a little excited?  You bet!  I am already pricing QCTP, HSS blanks and, of course, the perfect oil delivery for the 11, count 'em, 11 ball oilers.
There must be a half a dozen messages regarding just ball oilers in this forum.
Before I get too carried away though I must turn my attention to building a suitable table.  Thinking of building one on casters (fat ones) but building in a leveling system to0.  Something like a three or four inch pad just inside where the casters reside.


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## nvminer

Hey man, congrats on the new lathe! I jut received my G0602 this week.  I will caution you to do a very good inspection on the crate/machine when you get it. The first machine I received from Grizzly was majorly damaged even though the crate didn't look that bad. To their credit they (Grizzly) handled it really well and the second one arrived in perfect condition.


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## markknx

ilamansky said:


> The G0602 has shipped!  Ordered Friday morning and delivery is expected Wednesday "by the end of the day".
> Gees!  I better have my act together including movers pallets and my trusty portable hoist!  Grizzly was pretty fast once Visa cleared.
> Am I just a little excited?  You bet!  I am already pricing QCTP, HSS blanks and, of course, the perfect oil delivery for the 11, count 'em, 11 ball oilers.
> There must be a half a dozen messages regarding just ball oilers in this forum.
> Before I get too carried away though I must turn my attention to building a suitable table.  Thinking of building one on casters (fat ones) but building in a leveling system to0.  Something like a three or four inch pad just inside where the casters reside.



Be sure to do A good cleaning, get all the cosmoline off. WD 40 is a good cleaner for this. you can use a plastic scraper to get the thick stuff of. plan on this taking some time. also put some extra oil in the ball oilers for the spindle. then make sure you see it coming out at the bearings. There has been several cases of these being plugged up with sand and swarf. I switched mine to cap oilers. Check this site for some good files, photos, and guys that own these machines.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/10x22grizzlyandthelike/info. If you post on this site that you have a new 10 x 22 coming some guys will chime in with lots of good ideas to help get you going. Trust me I own this lathe and They helped me out a lot. You can PM me too if you want. or just post here I will watch this post. I also watch posts at the 10 x grizzly site above.
Also I don't know if you did this or not but you can pull up a pdf of the manual @ grizzly so you can get a head start on reading it and getting all you need ready.
Just one more thing enjoy your new machine.
Mark
PS: nvminer You too on all I said above


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## ilamansky

Thanks everyone.  I waited in the 1PM to 5PM delivery window for UPS ltl and they were a no show by 5:15.  I called UPS and they said if there was no one to sign off on the delivery they would reschedule.
I left to pick up my wife and when we got back there was the crated machine sitting on a pallet in the driveway!   No chance to inspect, but the crate had no significant damage.  When my mini mill from Harbor Freight had arrived it had been repackaged in a cardboard box and was left upside down on the driveway!  Gees was that a mess.  But HF covered all the cracked or broken pieces.
Haven't uncrated the Grizz yet.  Hope I don't find hidden damage as nvminer did.  But I am putting faith in Grizzly.  Their reputation on this and other forums is what tipped me to buy from them.
Either way, they will hear from me regarding the outcome.
Stay tuned!
BTW, Mark, I did download the pdf from Grizzly for the 10x22 and have been studying it.  Along with their 9x19, HF's 8x12, LMS various lathes, Precision Matthews (what I could find) and others.  The G0602 always seemed to turn out the best bang for the buck.


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## markknx

ilamansky,
Yes I researched all of those and came to the same conclusion. mine has been a great machine. In the price range the best I found. I hope you find the machine in good shape. mine had a small dent on the control panel and instead of letting them send me a new panel I talk them into a gift cars.
I am surprised UPS left it on the drive.
This machine can be a good entry level or a lifetime machine depending on your needs. Keep us posted.
Mark


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## ilamansky

Everything seems to be ok with the 0602 as delivered.  Nothing broken or cracked but it will need a major cleaning and oiling before use.
In the meantime, looking at the thread on the four jaw chuck I am somewhat concerned.  I will try to upload a representative picture of what looks to be "not the best thread job" I have seen.  I am wondering if putting this chuck on the spindle might damage the spindle thread (to match the questionable back plate thread).
I was going to inquire of Grizzly if I might get an exchange for the chuck or at least a machineable back plate.
Is the spindle thread also hardened?  Am I overly concerned about the chuck thread?
I don't think my photo uploading skills are correctly honed just yet.
Irv


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## markknx

Are the threads crossed or rolled? or just look like the steel was ripped out to make them


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