# Logan 820 Write up #1 - Friction Clutch repair



## CDBEAM (Aug 15, 2019)

Hello All…  This is my first post to the Logan section !!!

I am a new Logan 820 owner, Serial # 40926, born in 1946 !! I purchased this machine….Rebuilt.  It is not in "museum condition"….but very nice !!!
A few… Idiosyncrasies……Chip pan is backwards, Forward/Off/Reverse switch wired backwards, missing Holding bracket for Headstock Cover….and a problem with the Friction Clutch.

Locking wheels are great to move the Lathe around....BUT....I will likely migrate to the " Hockey Puck " design feet in the near future for most accurate leveling !!

I have had a chance to start to learn the machine.  My neighbor( Paul) is a retired machinist….and a great Mechanic / Machinist. He has taught me MANY things….and is most patient !!!  I am very grateful !!

In his opinion....which I trust completely.....Ways are great, Headstock was rebuilt ( New bearings), Run-out checked and very good…..+/- .001 @ 12”. Original 3/4 Hp motor - 110 VAC. QCGB all working good and Lead screw good.

SO....yesterday......we just fixed the Friction Clutch.  How fortunate it was a simple fix !!!!!  The Clutch knob would NOT engage….Cross direction or Longitudinally.

I searched the forum….and found this…….
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/820-logan-apron-question.76592/

Thank you 58A !!

So….we open the Apron Clam Shell up…..Note, Handles can stay attached….just remove ALL bolts you can see.
All gears are in great condition….including the Half-nut !!
We only found that one ….. of the two….very small springs in the inside of the clutch unit had fallen out….and would prevent the clutch washers from compressing properly !!!

SO….put the spring back in….cleaned up the Clam seating lips, applied a very thin layer of GE Silicon Sealant, bolted the Clam Shell together,  mounted the unit back to the Lathe and reconnected the Lead Screw end clamp.
Note: One must remove the Lead Screw clamp to slide the Apron assemble off the Lead screw.   Used 80W Gear Oil to refill the Apron reservoir.

Works perfect !!! Paul is a genius….and this forum is of GREAT HELP !!!!  THANK YOU !!

SO….sorry if I have failed to us any correct names…..I am new to this Lathe Repair business….and I am sure I barely qualify as an Apprentice Machinist….BUT….It is a great feeling to keep this vintage machine ready….for another 73 years of duty !!!

I am very glad I opted for a vintage unit....built like a tank....and with good tolerance....and...it just seems right to give this lathe TLC and more opportunity to continue to machine with purpose and pride.

Just thought I would share my joy and experience !!   I did not want another hobby....but am oddly attracted to this passion !!   I get it !!

CDBEAM


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## tmenyc (Aug 16, 2019)

Welcome -- this is a great place, the Logan group particularly so.  For more Logan-specific stuff you should know there is also an old-style forum moderated by Scott Logan himself, was until recently Yahool board, is now at https://groups.io/g/Lathe-List/topics.  You should also get your lathe's s/n in Scott's database, a long-term effort to identify the survivors.  With that you'll also get your 820's history.  
Tim


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## benmychree (Aug 16, 2019)

That 80 wt gear oil might not be the best choice for your apron, it may make clutch engagement draggy or slippery, or both.  Way too many exclamation points!


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## CDBEAM (Aug 16, 2019)

tmenyc said:


> Welcome -- this is a great place, the Logan group particularly so.  For more Logan-specific stuff you should know there is also an old-style forum moderated by Scott Logan himself, was until recently Yahool board, is now at https://groups.io/g/Lathe-List/topics.  You should also get your lathe's s/n in Scott's database, a long-term effort to identify the survivors.  With that you'll also get your 820's history.
> Tim



THANX Tmen...I would luv to find out where my 820 has lived before !!! ….   If I understand your post correctly.
Did some additional Rattle Can work this AM....just stick'in with the basic medium gray.111qw



benmychree said:


> That 80 wt gear oil might not be the best choice for your apron, it may make clutch engagement draggy or slippery, or both.  Way too many exclamation points!


 
OK......What oil do you recommend ??  Easy to drain and refill !!!

CDB


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## wa5cab (Aug 17, 2019)

There is a copy of the Operator's Manual on the Logan 800 Series in Downloads.  In the section on lubrication, it says to use grease on all gear teeth and SAE 10 everywhere else.  That specifically includes the apron where it says to remove two set screws (oil plugs) on the front of the apron toward the lower right and upper left (there is a photo with the locations indicated).  Inject oil into the upper hole until it drips out the lower one.  Then replace both screws.

Edit - According to the parts list for the automatic apron, the lower set screw is actually a 1/8" pipe plug.  And the drawings and list also shows a 3/8" pipe plug that must be for draining the apron.

Also, one of the apron drawings indicates that the same apron is used on the 900 Series.  The 900 Series manual that we have does not include a parts list so if you have a 900 Series lathe, also download the 800 Series manual for a few parts.  I didn't look at the entire 800 Series manual to see what else is common to both.

Note that because of the monthly expense, access to downloads requires Donor status.  This can be as low as $10 good for a year.


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## CDBEAM (Aug 17, 2019)

Well...Thanx !!!   My Apron has a bottom Drain Plug....and a front fill plug.  I do have a copy pf the owners manual....I missed that part !!!

I will replace with Logan's recommended oil.  

As a side note....I want to reverse the direction wires in the F/N/R  switch box ( Reverse and Forward are backwards)...I assume this is easy....anybody have a pic of what is inside.

Thanx again,
CDB


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## wa5cab (Aug 17, 2019)

You're welcome. 

There are at least several dozen different switches that you might have on your machine.  If you unplug the lathe from the AC mains and remove the cover on the switch, most of them will have a schematic of the switch inside.  Assuming that you have a single phase Capacitor start motor (the most common type found on small lathes) you will have to ID the two wires that go to the START circuit in the motor.  Then disconnect and swap the two wires in the switch.  You might remove the cover plate over the wires on the motor.  Usually the cover will have a note on it saying to swap two wires that it will somehow ID in order to reverse the motor.  Those two wires plus two or three more will run over to the switch.  One wire is usually the safety ground.  Common color is green.  Two other wires will go to the switch and will be connected to the AC line the same way in both F and R.  The two Start wires should be switched one way for F and the other way for R.  Those are the two wires that you want to disconnect in the switch and reconnect the other way.

If you have a 3-phase motor (not likely), three wires will be hot when in F or R.  Swap any two of them at the switch.


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## CDBEAM (Aug 17, 2019)

THANX . I have a single Phase 110 V Motor.  IIRC....the switch was made by " American Furnace  " . My other neighbor, Bob, is a Industrial Electrician. I will likely bug him to look over my shoulder. Electrical or Electronics are NOT my strong card.
Thanx, Again
CDB 

Note: I keep solvent cleaning/brushing/ Steel wooling, and section by section, I am giving my pride'n'joy  a new medium gray coat.   So far....Looks good.


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## wa5cab (Aug 18, 2019)

That's certainly the safest approach!


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## CDBEAM (Aug 22, 2019)

CDBEAM said:


> THANX . I have a single Phase 110 V Motor.  IIRC....the switch was made by " American Furnace  " . My other neighbor, Bob, is a Industrial Electrician. I will likely bug him to look over my shoulder. Electrical or Electronics are NOT my strong card.
> Thanx, Again
> CDB
> 
> Note: I keep solvent cleaning/brushing/ Steel wooling, and section by section, I am giving my pride'n'joy  a new medium gray coat.   So far....Looks good.



New thought,   R could stand for  "Rotating Right Direction" and F could stand for " Fearful Direction " as the Chuck can spin of in that direction !! HAHAHAHA


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## brino (Aug 22, 2019)

Glad to hear that your old lathe is getting some TLC and attention.
No doubt it is NOT yet used up.

Stick close to those helpful neighbours and return the favours.
Soon you'll be making many wonderful projects.

-brino


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## wa5cab (Aug 23, 2019)

CDBEAM,

According to the 800 Series manual, there are three  plugs having to do with oiling the apron.  The bottom on is of course the drain plug.  The front one is for checking the oil level.  According to the manual, you pull the front one out and if a little oil does not drip out, you remove the top one and add a little.  The top one is probably a headless set screw, not a pipe plug.  Look at the photo on Page 10 (PDF file page 12), Item #8 for the approximate location.  The text calls it a set screw.  However, the text also calls the level check plug Item #9 a set screw.  Just don't remove the Filister head screw that attaches the apron to the saddle.


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## CDBEAM (Aug 23, 2019)

Thank you both.  While I am not ANY where near the level of a Old Iron Restoration person, I think I understand the passion and pride involved, and am in awe of those that rescuer a machine from the brink of the scrap yard !

I have just now been reading the debates between Old Iron and New China manufacture. Interesting. In my case, I just could not get the funds together for a 3~5K new machine.  That motive was my initial reason.  After talking with the PO, seeing his bitter sweet feelings about selling his restored machine, it dawned on my that there was more to this Old Iron purchase than I had imagined ! Well, Indeed, there is more.

I have ordered a replacement Head Stock cover stay (pulled of a Logan 200 machine) and new SS leveling feet.  Also on the way  is a Machinist level. I am under the impression that a VFD cannot be used on a single phase 110V motor and, anyways, the speed change is SO easy, why should I consider this.

I have yet to replace the Apron oil and appreciate the guidance on the refill procedure.

CDBEAM


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## wa5cab (Aug 23, 2019)

Unless you know for certain that the apron is full of some kind of oil, I hope that you have not been running the machine.


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## CDBEAM (Aug 23, 2019)

Currently the apron reservoir has a new addition of Mobil 80W-90.  You previously  recommended SAE 10 ( as specified in the Logan manual )
I have yet to change this out.  I have NOT operated the machine as I am waiting on a Machinist level and SS leveling feet to arrive next week.
In the meantime,  I will read up on what the difference is between 8OW-90 vs. SAE 10 oil.  My Machinist neighbor sez he only uses 80W-90....and he has many, many, many machines.  Thank you for the guidance.
CDBEAM


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## wa5cab (Aug 24, 2019)

I've never owned a Logan.  I just reported what the factory recommended.  FWIW, SAE Gear 80W overlaps SAE20 and SAE30 Engine in absolute terms.  Where Logan recommended SAE10, Atlas did also in the early years and switched to recommending SAE20 in the later years.  I've not paid any attention to what other contractors recommend.


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## CDBEAM (Aug 25, 2019)

Well, For now I will leave the Gear Oil in.  If problems arise, will change out to SAE10 oil.

SS Leveling feet arrived today. Am waiting on a Machinist Level. Chips SOON !  CDBEAM


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## wa5cab (Aug 26, 2019)

At least you know that the gear oil is new and clean.


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## James_Douglas (Jun 21, 2020)

Be glad you do not have an early Logan with the cone style clutch...it is a ***** to get working correct....


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## Chuck K (Jun 21, 2020)

I have always used vactra way oil in Logan (and for that matter every brand) aprons.  Some machines have pumps in the apron to lubricate the ways and cross slide so way oil is necessary.


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## benmychree (Jun 21, 2020)

A heavy weight gear oil, especially one with EP ingredients would be absolutely the last choice that I would make for a apron with friction clutch, Vactra #2 is what I use.


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## CDBEAM (Jun 21, 2020)

Well....No problems with the oil that currently fills the apron  !!!   So far.....This Old Iron has run perfectly !!!  And yes....I had a cone variable speed clutch on a Drill Press that I did not care for !!!  Worked....but had too much vibration...Thanx all !!!


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