# Vfd Installed, Lathe Up & Running :)



## Lonnie (Apr 9, 2016)

Awhile back I had posted how much I liked Mark's (mksj) VFD install on his lathe. Mark PM'd me and, long story short, after a few emails back and forth he decided he would do me a huge favor and offered to build a system for my lathe.  

Yesterday that build arrived in the mail. When I first opened the package I was floored. EVERYTHING was neatly and carefully packaged up. The instructions that came with it were superb to say the least. It was basically like connect the dots!

I spent most of the first day reading and getting a better understanding of the install. All I had accomplished on the first day was the control panel on the front of the lathe installed.







Today, I got a good jump on it and had all the factory electrical in the lathe tore out and VFD (Hitachi WJ200) installed in the top cabinet by noon. Getting the actual VFD mounted was most of the battle. Everything else just fell into place. The new electrical panel bolted right in, all I had to do was put in the 24VDC 100 watt power supply. Here it is all powered up. You can see how well marked the power connections were. SUPER easy to get everything hooked up where it was supposed to go!







Here's a few more pics of the install;

Wire routing from control panel through gearing to electrical panel. I just used the ties that were already on the lathe. 






Wires leading into cabinet where VFD is mounted. Main power and motor wires on right and everything else from VFD to control/electrical panel on the left.






Lathe at first power up.






Proximity sensor installed. (installed before initial start up)






And finally, after programming the VFD, lathe up and running! I followed the instructions as per Mark and the lathe powered up without any hiccups. 






I put the lathe through a few paces before calling it a night. The braking is awesome, stops the lathe dead in a second or better. The proximity sensor was accurate to 0.0001" each and every time! 

A *HUGE* thank you out to Mark! 
His talent for building these systems is incredible. There is no way I could have ever built a system this complex nor one that runs the lathe so smoothly. 

_*Mark, I'll get that proximity cable run under the chip pan tomorrow. _


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## davidpbest (Apr 9, 2016)

Looks great.   Congratulations.  I have a similar kit from Mark (but with the Turbo option) ready to install on my 1340GT that just arrived last week.   Mark is a terrific resource and the kit he sent me was truly breathtaking in it's attention to detail.

I'm curious how you mounted the VFD  and what kind of Tach sensor you used.   Also, looks like you upgraded the drive belt on your lathe - can you share the details on that belt - make/model/source?

Thanks for posting this - gives me courage to push ahead.


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## FOMOGO (Apr 9, 2016)

Really nice setup. Should be a treat to run. Mike


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## jeff_g1137 (Apr 9, 2016)

Hi
"The proximity sensor was accurate to 0.0001" each and every time!"
What is the sensor for ???
jeff


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## tmarks11 (Apr 9, 2016)

Stops the spindle when the carriage approaches the proximity sensor.  

Used for safety (prevent crash) or for precision (threading into a shoulder).

With a VFD active braking, the spindle stops on a dime (ok, much smaller then that).


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## wrmiller (Apr 9, 2016)

Very nicely done Mark and Lonnie! 

(I don't have one of Mark's setups, because when I got my lathe he wasn't offering build kits back then)


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## Lonnie (Apr 9, 2016)

davidpbest said:


> Looks great.   Congratulations.  I have a similar kit from Mark (but with the Turbo option) ready to install on my 1340GT that just arrived last week.   Mark is a terrific resource and the kit he sent me was truly breathtaking in it's attention to detail.
> 
> I'm curious how you mounted the VFD  and what kind of Tach sensor you used.   Also, looks like you upgraded the drive belt on your lathe - can you share the details on that belt - make/model/source?
> 
> Thanks for posting this - gives me courage to push ahead.



Hi David

The belts were upgraded to Gates BX24 and a Gates BX25. I bought them on Amazon fairly cheap. One is for the high speed pulley and the other for low speed pulley.
The tach was one that I had purchased off eBay from China. Think I paid $6 or $7 for it. Do a search on eBay for RPM Sensor and you'll get many to choose from in different colors.

I mounted the VFD with 1"x 2" angle iron and 2 pieces of 1 1/2" x 3/8" aluminum flat bar. I bolted the flat bar to the 2" side of the angle iron and the 1" side of the angle to the cabinet wall. I spaced the flat bar out so the VFD would bolt into the center of each piece. I hope that makes sense.


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## Bamban (Apr 9, 2016)

The VFD conversion on my ACER 1236 was one of the first ones done by Mark, the system has been flawless and still ticking. The VFD is just an inexpensive Huanyang, when it goes I will upgrade to a Hitachi.

He did another one for the 1024, this one is a much simpler system based around a TECO 115 1P to 220 3P unit.


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## Lonnie (Apr 9, 2016)

I was very fortunate to have Mark build this for me. It was just the luck of the draw that he had some time to do it. He is a very busy man and I respect that.

I initially had bought the Huanyang VFD but after discussing things with Mark, I decided to "upgrade" to the Hitachi. I'll use the HY VFD if I ever get a mill. I have a lead on one (mill) but it's still not a "done deal".


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## wrmiller (Apr 9, 2016)

Bamban said:


> The VFD conversion on my ACER 1236 was one of the first ones done by Mark, the system has been flawless and still ticking. The VFD is just an inexpensive Huanyang, when it goes I will upgrade to a Hitachi.
> 
> He did another one for the 1024, this one is a much simpler system based around a TECO 115 1P to 220 3P unit.



The man IS very talented.


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## qualitymachinetools (Apr 9, 2016)

Yes he is, he is a genius with these setups. He makes ME jealous of the way you guys have these machines set up, and I sell the machines! That proximity sensor is the best thing I've ever seen on a lathe for threading up to shoulders, or anything where you need to stop like that. No question about it!


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## HitFactor (Apr 9, 2016)

Did you make the proximity sensor? Could you post more detail about it?


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## Lonnie (Apr 9, 2016)

The proximity sensor was all Marks idea. He would be the one to quiz up on it.
I made a short video demonstrating the accuracy of it this morning. That thing is amazing!
I'll try to do another/better video up later on threading with it.


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## mksj (Apr 9, 2016)

Hi Lonnie,

It all turned out very nice, you did a great install job! The proximity sensor is a PNP type electronic switch that works like an E-Stop, and needs to be used with a VFD system with braking to achieve the optimum accuracy.  This particular P sensor has a higher frequency rate and is also shielded, it performs better than expected when you look at the accuracy when doing repetitive cuts/threading. Really takes the worry out of the machine stopping at a particular point, and is very easy to set. It works as part of a total VFD system and programming parameters on the VFD, and what is more impressive is that it is done with the stock motor. The newer designed control system are adaptable to most lathes and VFDs that support an external braking resistor, a schematic and parts list is attached. There is a similar home built system without the P sensor on a G4003G lathe.  http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/g4003g-going-3-ph-vfd.34549/page-2

Very pleased with how the system works, and the additional operator safety component.
Regards,
Mark


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## BridgeClone (Apr 10, 2016)

That is awesome guys, great job.


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## arvidj (Apr 10, 2016)

Nice control panel.

Would you care to enumerate the controls? Obviously on the far left is the speed control, followed by the master switch. Then two small toggle switched and a joystick. And finally the eStop.

It's the function of the two small toggle switches and the joystick the have me puzzled. I'm guessing at coolant, direction, jog, etc. but would like to put the correct names on the correct switches.

Thanks,
Arvid


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## Terrywerm (Apr 10, 2016)

I am puzzled by those switches and the joystick also. I too would love to understand their purpose.


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## jeff_g1137 (Apr 10, 2016)

+1


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## Lonnie (Apr 10, 2016)

arvidj said:


> Nice control panel.
> 
> Would you care to enumerate the controls? Obviously on the far left is the speed control, followed by the master switch. Then two small toggle switched and a joystick. And finally the eStop.
> 
> ...



The front control panel works like this;
Starting on the left, obviously that's the speed control. The next blue switch is the coolant on/off.
The top small toggle switch is the braking rate of the lathe when I disengage the clutch. Braking times are 3 second when it's up or 1 second when it's down.
The bottom small toggle is the proximity sensor bypass switch. I use that to over-ride the proximity sensor, so I can reverse the carriage without having to disengage the half nut, for metric threading.
The big toggle switch is the jog function, up for forward and down for reverse.
Last button, E-stop.

I will be marking these control switches, I just haven't got around to it yet.


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## wrmiller (Apr 10, 2016)

Nicely thought through and laid out. 

I have a Fwd/Rev switch for my jog button and really like that for tapping or sneaking up on a shoulder. I really should learn how to use the clutch so I can set a hard stop. 

I also have two-stage braking: 1 sec. is used for 900 rpm and below, 3 sec (maybe 4?) for above that. It takes a WHOLE bunch of energy to stop a 80 lb. chuck spinning at 2000+ rpm...    I don't typically run my lathe that fast, but do on occasion.


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## Terrywerm (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks for posting the details, Lonnie!


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## CraigB1960 (Apr 10, 2016)

Very nicely done!  Can you share additional information on the proximity sensor....manufacture, part number, perhaps reference to the spec sheet?  I am getting ready to retrofit my lathe with a VFD (Sheldon lathe) and think the proximity switch would be an excellent feature to design in.


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## Lonnie (Apr 10, 2016)

Mark was kind enough to send me the product list. He also installed a safety switch in case the proximity switch failed but I'm not sure where he sourced that from. Hopefully Mark can answer how everything was put together. 

The proximity sensor - INDUC PROX 18mm SHIELDED PNP 8mm RNG 4-WIRE 10-30VDC N.O./N.C. 4-PIN M12 Q/D
Proximity sensor cable - CABLE M12 2m (6.5ft) Q/D 4-POLE RT-ANG FEMALE BLK PUR


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## CraigB1960 (Apr 10, 2016)

Lonnie said:


> Mark was kind enough to send me the product list. He also installed a safety switch in case the proximity switch failed but I'm not sure where he sourced that from. Hopefully Mark can answer how everything was put together.
> 
> The proximity sensor - INDUC PROX 18mm SHIELDED PNP 8mm RNG 4-WIRE 10-30VDC N.O./N.C. 4-PIN M12 Q/D
> Proximity sensor cable - CABLE M12 2m (6.5ft) Q/D 4-POLE RT-ANG FEMALE BLK PUR



Perfect!  Thank you for the links!


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## AirWolf (Apr 10, 2016)

wrmiller said:


> I also have two-stage braking: 1 sec. is used for 900 rpm and below, 3 sec (maybe 4?) for above that. It takes a WHOLE bunch of energy to stop a 80 lb. chuck spinning at 2000+ rpm...



Yea... like maybe you might flip the lathe!!  

I can see it now....Bill sets parameters up for that beast of a chuck for a 1 second stop from 2000 rpm..... the chuck stops, and the entire lathe starts rotating!!

Newton's third law: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.


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## Firestopper (Apr 10, 2016)

Beautiful job! 
Mark's control systems are superb . He makes a simple lathe into a "Smart Lathe". I grin ear to ear now when operating my Smart lathe.  Mark is always helpful,patient and kind, a real gentleman.
Congratulations on your upgrades Lonnie.


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## arvidj (Apr 11, 2016)

firestopper said:


> Mark's control systems are superb . He makes a simple lathe into a "Smart Lathe". I grin ear to ear now when operating my Smart lathe.



Where can one find more information about Mark and his control system?


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## mksj (Apr 12, 2016)

You can send me a pm (Contact button) if you need some direct assistance, I do post the designs and suggestions on line. But I can provide more specific information as needed.
Mark


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## Rich V (Apr 14, 2016)

That is a beautiful setup. The proximity stop alone is worth the price of admission, no more crashes when threading.


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## jeff_g1137 (Apr 14, 2016)

Hi
How do you wire the proximity stop,???
jeff


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## HitFactor (Apr 14, 2016)

Not sure how this one is wired in. On my lathe 2 proximity switches are wired in series with the e-stop. An override switch is wired in parallel with the 2 prox switches.

Not nearly as elegant and no braking.  But low speed threading stops quickly anyway.


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## jeff_g1137 (Apr 14, 2016)

Hi
Are the proximity switches, 2-3 or 4 wire ???
jeff


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## HitFactor (Apr 14, 2016)

I used allen bradely shielded 3 wire.


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## mksj (Apr 14, 2016)

Wiring in a proximity stop varies by system and if you use relays. There is also PNP and NPN direct current types depending on if you are switching the power side "P" or the negative side 0V "N". The maximum switched power varies by sensor, usually around 200mA total load. They can be 2, 3 or 4 wire depending on how they are powered and what is switched. They can be shielded, and also vary on how fast they can sense an object.  I have been wiring them after the E-Stop in series.  There is a momentary bypass switch which is in parallel with the proximity sensors switched leads, this allows one to reverse and back away from the proximity sensor without disengaging the half-nut. This is how I thread all the time, I just find it easier. Wired in after the E-Stop, but before the proximity switch is a small plunger style limit switch which is also mounted on the micrometer stop. This engages after the proximity sensor, and cannot be bypassed. It acts as a second electro-mecahnical safety stop should the sensor fail or the sensor is bypassed and you run the lathe in the wrong direction. Both the the P sensor and the limit safety switch are mechanically attached to the micrometer stop plunger, so the distance can be adjusted.


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## jeff_g1137 (Apr 14, 2016)

Hi
"a small plunger style limit switch which is also mounted on the micrometer stop. This engages after the proximity sensor, and cannot be bypassed. It acts as a second electro-mecahnical safety stop should the sensor fail or the sensor is bypassed"

I was thinking what if the sensor fails, good idea, have you a wiring diagram very simple, it takes time to sink in, getting old. LOL
jeff


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## mksj (Apr 15, 2016)

Hi Jeff,

Information requested.


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## brav65 (Apr 16, 2016)

mksj said:


> Wiring in a proximity stop varies by system and if you use relays. There is also PNP and NPN direct current types depending on if you are switching the power side "P" or the negative side 0V "N". The maximum switched power varies by sensor, usually around 200mA total load. They can be 2, 3 or 4 wire depending on how they are powered and what is switched. They can be shielded, and also vary on how fast they can sense an object.  I have been wiring them after the E-Stop in series.  There is a momentary bypass switch which is in parallel with the proximity sensors switched leads, this allows one to reverse and back away from the proximity sensor without disengaging the half-nut. This is how I thread all the time, I just find it easier. Wired in after the E-Stop, but before the proximity switch is a small plunger style limit switch which is also mounted on the micrometer stop. This engages after the proximity sensor, and cannot be bypassed. It acts as a second electro-mecahnical safety stop should the sensor fail or the sensor is bypassed and you run the lathe in the wrong direction. Both the the P sensor and the limit safety switch are mechanically attached to the micrometer stop plunger, so the distance can be adjusted.




Mike you rock, I am shines new to all of this stuff and you make it seem like child's play.  I hope I can pick your brain once I have said up my pennies to get a new lathe.


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## jeff_g1137 (Apr 16, 2016)

mksj said:


> Hi Jeff,
> 
> Information requested.
> View attachment 127157



Hi
Thanks Mike but most of it went over my head.
1. does the 24v come from the VFD ???
2. white NC to load, is this back to the VFD or in line with the stop sw. or is the powering a relay or contactor. ???

I get the NC safety stop sw & the prox bypass sw, but is the 24v coming from the D1 or D2 on the VFD.
I can not believe i am so bad at this i used to repair cranes do electrical fault finding, rewires all 3ph, i hate getting old arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Thanks Jeff


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## mksj (Apr 16, 2016)

The P sensor is inserted after your E-Stop (low voltage DC circuit), just like a limit or kill switch after the E-Stop. This can either be in a relay circuit or in the VFD terminal control circuit. The VFD must be setup so the inputs use "source" logic. What this means is that the input terminals are at 0V (ground) and they are activated by the internal VFD power for these terminals, which is usually 12 or 24V. The default on most VFDs is usually the opposite, which is called "sink" logic. Also note that on some VFDs the power supplied to the logic inputs can be very low, like 20mA. The proximity sensor needs a few mA to operate. I use all relay controls in most of my builds, so the P sensor is connected to the power supply that operates the relays, the relays then switch the VFD inputs. One also needs to be aware that the maximum current that most of these sensors can switch is about 200mA. Since small relays can take around 70mA to turn on, a contactor much more, one needs to design the circuit and indicator lights to take this into account.

A 4 wire P sensor that also has a normally open switch that closes when the P sensor is triggered (black wire in this sensor), this could be used in a 3 wire control system to operate the Stop input command. 

Mark


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## sanddan (Apr 16, 2016)

Mark,

Is there any way you could do a video demonstrating how you thread using the stop feature? I know it's asking a lot but I think it would be very interesting to see.

Dan


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## jeff_g1137 (Apr 17, 2016)

Hi
Thanks Mark, i can see the light at the end of the tunnel, just, but it is sinking in slowly.
Thanks Jeff


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