# 8x16 lathes with 210V in their model number. Usually MX-210v or MX210v



## Tolerent

Model Numbers include: WBL210V, TS-210 8, WM210V, WM 210v, you get it. 210 is the common model number indication and the lathes are generally 150 to 180# and 8x14 or 8x16.

I see a lot of these Chinese lathes on eBay and even on Amazon. they typically weigh 150# or more and currently price between $850 for a basic machine with a 38mm spindle bore and a 3 jaw chuck to $1,200 for a more impressive but still possibly no-name brand with a second (4 jaw) chuck, a steady rest, and a small basic tooling kit. 

I want to hear from people who have used one of these lathes or at a minimum have a personal acquaintance who has shared actual experience regarding the series of lathes.

Please in this particular thread only stories of first hand knowledge and only the 8x14 or 8x16 described above. Let us know the spindle bore is > or < 1" and your informed impressions. 

Someone has to own these. Don't be shy. Share.


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## Dhal22

No replies yet but you appear to be tolerent so all is well.


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## Tolerent

Dhal22 said:


> No replies yet but you appear to be tolerent so all is well.


Since I am not experienced as a machinist I think my tolerance is going to push the envelope. 

When I worked QC and then QA I developed an understanding that perfection was the target, Viability was the requirement and specifications were the party line. You don't want a reputation for rejecting viable products because they are out of spec and you don't want a reputation for tolerating existing specifications when a demonstrably inadequate or dysfunctional product has been able to meet the published design criteria. It's a dance.


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## silence dogood

I have a Lathemaster 8x14  same as the Harbor Freight 8x12.  It is not a Sieg.  I believe it is a Dazheng HD 210.  I got it about 9 years ago and at the time there were not other 8" that I knew of.  This guy weighs 260 lbs.  and has a 3/4" or 19mm spindle bore.   When I got it, the lathe was within specs and they still are.  Basically, she's a plain Jane but robust.  I've done some minor mods such as replacing screws ( the Chinese in my opinion make lousy screws).  The last major mod was modify the tailstock.  It was sloppy when you tightened and loosen the tailstock.  Won't go into too much detail for now. Replace the bolt with one with a larger head, then turned and threaded it to size, added a spring.  It's not perfect but  this machine will do what I want it to do. I'd like to be more specific and help you more.   What do you plan to do?


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## Dhal22

Humor attempt by me.   Hope it a wasn't a total fail.


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## Tolerent

Dhal22 said:


> Humor attempt by me.   Hope it a wasn't a total fail.


Since the username was a humor attempt by me I have to appreciate it.


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## Tolerent

silence dogood said:


> I have a Lathemaster 8x14  same as the Harbor Freight 8x12.  It is not a Sieg.  I believe it is a Dazheng HD 210.  I got it about 9 years ago and at the time there were not other 8" that I knew of.  This guy weighs 260 lbs.  and has a 3/4" or 19mm spindle bore.   When I got it, the lathe was within specs and they still are.  Basically, she's a plain Jane but robust.  I've done some minor mods such as replacing screws ( the Chinese in my opinion make lousy screws).  The last major mod was modify the tailstock.  It was sloppy when you tightened and loosen the tailstock.  Won't go into too much detail for now. Replace the bolt with one with a larger head, then turned and threaded it to size, added a spring.  It's not perfect but  this machine will do what I want it to do. I'd like to be more specific and help you more.   What do you plan to do?


If I knew what I would eventually use it for I am afraid I would be looking at something a lot more substantial or at not getting a lathe at all. 

I am mostly wanting to get my toes wet with something that will allow me to learn as I go and will facilitate me having a satisfying learning curve. A machine that when I do or if I do graduate to bigger the original will still be considered viable and respectable. 

I look at the 7x10 or 6x or even 4x lathes for hobbyists and model builders and think some of them might be respectable. *I am really trying to find the lowest entry level machine that is respectable* and I had sort of settled on the Harbor Freight 8x14 then started to get the impression that it was indeed a 210v of some sort. But... the HF seems to weigh in 100# heavier then most MX210v, TS-210v, WM210v. So I remain more than a bit confused. 

I had heard the Lathemaster was the same machine as the HF and I had also heard it was better than the HF. It appears Lathemaster is no longer.


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## matthewsx

While I do not have this specific machine I think the question you’re asking has been covered repeatedly on here. General consensus seems to be buy PM if you want new or buy an older more stout machine if you’re willing to take a chance. Any low cost route will require some work to get where you have a good machine, wether reconditioning used or cleaning/setup/modifying a new machine.

If you haven’t already I suggest reading through this thread:









						Why no small high-quality lathes?
					

I currently have an old Jet 9x20 that needs replacing. My problem is that I have very little room in my shop, so I am limited to a 9x, 10x, or maybe 11x24. 12x is just too large, as is x36.  The problem is that I can't find a quality full-featured lathe in that size range. The Chinese lathes I...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




Sorry for responding when you specifically wanted people with experience on your intended purchase but I’m finishing up my own small lathe project and already own one larger “antique” machine. Hope this helps....

Cheers,

John


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## silence dogood

I now have a better understanding of where you are going.  One of the reasons that that I chose the Lathemaster  (or in this case also the HF 8")  was that it had more cast iron which makes these machines more rigid and therefore should preform better.   I like your thinking, I know that some people will disagree with me on this,  But I feel that one in the beginning get a smaller machine. There is so much to learn and that includes safety.   If you want to learn how to drive you don't start with a semi pulling a trailer.  May I also suggest that you check out Little Machine Shop and Grizzly, not just for their machines but also their tooling.  I have had dealing with LMS and I know of a person who bought a lathe from grizzly.  Both I think are excellent companies.  If for some reason the machine does not work out, you can always sell it and upgrade. Just consider it a learning experence .  Check out the site "clicksping" on what lathe to buy.  He has several lathes and one of them is a sieg SC4 that he uses.  He is an amazing machinist.  Hope this helps.


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## Tolerent

Grizzly also makes industrial lathes. I do not think they are Cadillac's. More like a Marathon Cab used to be. Resilient and comfortable but probably not even a little sexy. Anyway I think any manufacturer that makes industrial lathes would be responsible in deciding to put their brand on a white label import. HF has some good tools but very few that are high end. I guess I am figuring that I will make a few mistakes while learning and may gain some advantage by tearing a <$1,000 lathe down to parade rest before I buy a $5,000 PM1340GS or better.


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## Aaron_W

I don't have any experience with the 8x16 specifically, but I have developed an interest in the smaller size lathes. I have a Sherline 3.5x17", an Enco 9x20 and a Powermatic / Logan 11x24. Some will suggest you buy the biggest lathe you can fit / afford, but personally I believe in your logic of starting small since you really don't know where this will lead you.

You are asking about a specific lathe so I don't want to go too far down the path of alternates unless you want to go there except to say the 9x20 lathes have a pretty solid following, they don't cost a lot more than the 8x16s, but are about 100lbs heavier (250-ish vs 150-ish). There are several members here on the forum who have extensive experience with the Sieg 9x20.


Something I have found with the small Chinese lathes is you have to take their sizing with a grain of salt. Some liberties are taken with the measurements. Taking my 9x20 as an example, you can find it marketed by different brands as an 8.5x20, a 9x19 or a 9x20. In actuality these lathes have an 8.75" swing and the 19" or 20" depends on whether you are using a live or dead center. Some of the smaller 7x lathes have very optimistic between centers distances with the longer ones more accurate than the shorter (where every inch would be more critical).

It would appear you are looking at a Weiss WBL210 series lathe rather than the more common Sieg C4 and variants. I'm pretty sure HF is a Seig C4, and Grizzly maybe a Sieg SC4.

Weiss WBL210

Sieg C4


It appears Precision Matthews lathes are based on Weiss designs but they don't carry an 8x16 lathe, their smallest being the 10x22.

Dro-pros in Northern California sells Weiss lathes, and does offer the 8x16" WBL-210V. I don't know if there is a closer retailer to Washington, as the Weiss USA site won't come up for me. I think there are a couple of people on this site that have dealt with Dro-pros.

Dro Pros Weiss lathes


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## Tolerent

OK, so I have looked over the Grizzly site which has them 10 to 20% lower than Amazon. Their 9x19 and 10x22 both around $1400 with the current pricing (sale 10% off through April 10th). I had initially discounted these as being 30 to 40% over the MX-210v but now see they come with a second chuck and live center and steady rest and follow rest and meaningful customer service and better design and more weight. Starting to lean toward a 9x19 or 10x22 Grizzly. even though I do not see the need for a steady rest or follow rest yet I can see I will want those sooner with Grizzly's much smaller spindle bore.


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## Dhal22

I build rc model airplanes and occasionally need a lathe.   A small one is all I need so did not get into this with any plans of buying a larger lathe.   However,  all and I mean ALL, suggestions were to stay away from small machines.   Not needing a bigger machine i ignored the advice and bought small anyway.   

Well,  they were right.   I bought the mini lathe (a unimat) and while it's going to be perfect for tiny little items, anything beyond that and you won't be happy.  All along my plan is/was to buy 2 different sizes but I can't wait for something that can cut an item the same day I need it.   

The PM 10x30 is on my buy list.


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## matthewsx

Grizzly is a known supplier and their stuff has plenty of fans. I tend to think of machine tools like musical instruments, a skilled performer can make beautiful music with a mediocre instrument but a beginner might get frustrated and walk away from the hobby if their instrument isn't properly set-up and tuned.

Like I said before, your question has been asked here many, many times. @DavidR8  recently has gone through a similar process and reading his threads might give some insight. 

The best advice I can give is don't be in a hurry, you'll find what works for you eventually even if you have to go through a few machines before you're happy. With any tool the skill lies mostly in the user, if you can find someone close by with a shop you can hang out in for an afternoon you'll have a much better idea of where to start.

Cheers,

John


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## Mitch Alsup

Aaron_W said:


> I don't have any experience with the 8x16 specifically, but I have developed an interest in the smaller size lathes. I have a Sherline 3.5x17", an Enco 9x20 and a Powermatic / Logan 11x24. Some will suggest you buy the biggest lathe you can fit / afford, but personally I believe in your logic of starting small since you really don't know where this will lead you.



As someone who used (suffered through) a Taig micro lathe for 2 decades, I can tell you you will get "down the learning curve" faster with the lathe as big as you can fit than as small as you can afford. If you are even close to affording the one that just barely fits, then wait and accumulate a bigger bank account.


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## Tolerent

I think I am looking at Grizzly 9x19 or 10x22 now. Both in the $1,500 range delivered and having enough additional components to justify $400 of the added cost so basically $250 for the Grizzly support system, anticipated quality differences, and branding. Noe those two Grizzly lathes have different gearboxes and tool posts with I believe the smaller having a QCGB and 3/8 max tool and the larger having 1/2 maximum tool and not looking like a QCGB. What's a boy to do...


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## matthewsx

Go with the bigger machine.

QCGB is convenient for threading and changing auto feed so If you see yourself doing a lot of either go with the 9x19 but I would personally deal with change gears to have more mass, power and larger spindle bore. I haven't touched either machine but they should be of similar quality. Also a higher top speed is good. Change gears are less convenient but to me it comes down to the old auto racing saying "there's no replacement for displacement" .

John


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## Tolerent

My wife is going to think I am compensating for something... Maybe not as long as I don't get a 24x90.


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## Dhal22

Always think bigger.


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## Aaron_W

Both of those have limited QCGBs, more for speed control and power feed speeds than threading. You will still need to use change gears for the full range of threading options. For the money I think it is worth moving up to one of those from the 8x16. They are still relatively cheap and as you noticed the additional tooling accounts for a good part of the difference in price. The 10x22 is beginning to become a handful at 300-350lbs but the 9x20s can be lifted and moved by hand by 2 average strength adults. The added weight of the 10x22 will make it more rigid so better unless you expect to move it around. The next step up to a 12x36 is a big one, a far more capable machine but about double the budget and no longer even remotely portable with a weight around 1000lbs.   

It is true you may find yourself wanting something bigger down the road, but either of these are an easy size to re-sell and move out of your garage if / when you get to that point and at that point you will hopefully have a much better idea of what you are looking for long term.


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## Aaron_W

Also Grizzly has the manuals for their machines available for download. If you go to the page for the individual machines and look at the tab for documents they have more detailed spec sheets, parts lists and manuals.


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## mrjlr

Tolerent said:


> Model Numbers include: WBL210V, TS-210 8, WM210V, WM 210v, you get it. 210 is the common model number indication and the lathes are generally 150 to 180# and 8x14 or 8x16.
> 
> I see a lot of these Chinese lathes on eBay and even on Amazon. they typically weigh 150# or more and currently price between $850 for a basic machine with a 38mm spindle bore and a 3 jaw chuck to $1,200 for a more impressive but still possibly no-name brand with a second (4 jaw) chuck, a steady rest, and a small basic tooling kit.
> 
> I want to hear from people who have used one of these lathes or at a minimum have a personal acquaintance who has shared actual experience regarding the series of lathes.
> 
> Please in this particular thread only stories of first hand knowledge and only the 8x14 or 8x16 described above. Let us know the spindle bore is > or < 1" and your informed impressions.
> 
> Someone has to own these. Don't be shy. Share.


i have just got mx-21v. it has a 1.5"spindle bore which is nice for larger jobs.my main complaint is that the lead screw is metric. i am a 50 plus years machinist and really do not like the metric system. you have no thread dial for threading. to leave the lathe engaged all the time is a real pain. as for the machine it self it seems to be fairly stout . you wouldn't happen to know makes this lathe would you? one more thing, the feed rate is just a little heavy for some jobs.


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## greenail

mrjlr said:


> i have just got mx-21v. it has a 1.5"spindle bore which is nice for larger jobs.my main complaint is that the lead screw is metric. i am a 50 plus years machinist and really do not like the metric system. you have no thread dial for threading. to leave the lathe engaged all the time is a real pain. as for the machine it self it seems to be fairly stout . you wouldn't happen to know makes this lathe would you? one more thing, the feed rate is just a little heavy for some jobs.


if you have a 3d printer you can make one fairly easily









						Lathe thread dial by Kswiorek
					

A threading dial for a small lathe. "The thread dial is what insures that the part and the carriage are synced up so you enter the same groove each time." The bracket fits a polish TSB16 lathe, but the mounting point fits a M4 screw, so you can design your own. The gear is designed for a metric...




					www.thingiverse.com


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## gregreid

I just found this thread with a search for "MX-210V" so thought I'd pipe in with a "me too".

I bought one with the 1.5" spindle bore, 2mm lead screw, and metal gears from Amazon (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B099MZ64QS ) about six months ago.  Mine came with 3- and 4-jaw (scroll, not independent) chucks, steady and follow rests, some carbide tooling, a cheapo QCTP, and some other cheap extras.  I've added a 3-axis DRO, Clough42 ELS, better QCTP, better carbide tooling, an independent 4-jaw chuck, an ER32 collet chuck and an ER32 MT2 tailstock mount.  Now that I've got it all "tuned up", I'm having some fun with it and making some good-locking parts. 

I just joined Hobby Machinist and finding my way around.  I'll likely buy a lifetime membership soon.


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## Luca_L

gregreid said:


> I've added a 3-axis DRO, Clough42 ELS, better QCTP,


Wow  , would you mind sharing your DRO model and sizes ?  Also how did the Clough42 leadscrew implementation go ?

thx !


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## wachuko

gregreid said:


> I just found this thread with a search for "MX-210V" so thought I'd pipe in with a "me too".
> 
> I bought one with the 1.5" spindle more, 2mm lead screw, and metal gears from Amazon (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B099MZ64QS ) about six months ago.  Mine came with 3- and 4-jaw (scroll, not independent) chucks, steady and follow rests, some carbide tooling, a cheapo QCTP, and some other cheap extras.  I've added a 3-axis DRO, Clough42 ELS, better QCTP, better carbide tooling, an independent 4-jaw chuck, an ER32 collet chuck and an ER32 MT2 tailstock mount.  Now that I've got it all "tuned up", I'm having some fun with it and making some good-locking parts.
> 
> I just joined Hobby Machinist and finding my way around.  I'll likely buy a lifetime membership soon.


If possible, share photos!!  That list of modifications sounds great.

And welcome to the forum!!!


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## gregreid

Sorry for the delay responding.  I live in Daytona Beach, FL, and we got whalloped by Hurricane Ian last Thursday.  We're fine and no major property damage, but my internet connection went out early Thursday and we only JUST got it back late yesterday, so I have lots of catching up to do.

I bought a cheap DRO kit from eBay for my MX-210V:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/384487676170    I had to shorten one of the scales (for the Z-axis), which is quite easy to do.  There are plenty of YouTube videos showing you how.  If I were to buy again today, I'd go instead for one of the LCD displays.  For example, I recently purchased this display (plus appropriate scales) for my PM-30MV mill that will be arriving soon: https://www.ebay.com/itm/185535141971   Having both side-by-side, the LCD just looks so much better, and it's not much more money.  It also has spiffy visuals for hole circle patterns and etc, but those advantages would be wasted on a lathe.

Of course once your DRO display and scales arrive, there's a considerable amount of work to find suitable mounting points and to construct brackets so that they'll work properly, be as out-of-the-way as possible, and stay debris-free as much as possible.  I'll take some pics of my setup when I get a chance and post them here.  It's not perfect but a pretty good compromise, I think.

As for the Clough42 ELS setup, that was a real adventure, and I learned a lot in the process.  I used my 3D printer to make a suitable bracket for the encoder to squeeze into the small hollow in the frame behind the control panel.  And I printed some gears to make use of the existing change-gear arm to connect the spindle drive to the encoder, which again just barely fit but worked out well.  (Once my mill arrives, I plan to use it to make steel gears as my first milling project, although the PLA printed plastic gears have been working just fine.)  I can upload plans for those 3D prints too if anyone's interested.

There's no place available inside the lathe's change-gear cover to mount the servo motor, and mounting at the rear would cause significant "clearance" issues with the drive, so I mounted it in front -- similar to what James did in his prototyping of the ELS on his lathe.  I used a 60T-to-10T reduction, but in hindsight, I'd change that to 4-to-1 reduction.  I find that my servo has plenty of excess power available, and it'd be nice to have it run a little slower (though I've had no problem with the 6-to-1 reduction).

I was able to find a place inside the power supply area of the lathe to mount (on some standoffs) the TI microcontroller board, and added a small fan on the side and cut some exit vents in the cover panel for cooling.  I mounted the power supply separately on the wall behind the lathe, with a cover to protect it from chips.  Again, I'll take some pictures and upload them when I get a chance.


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## Luca_L

gregreid said:


> Sorry for the delay responding.  I live in Daytona Beach, FL, and we got whalloped by Hurricane Ian last Thursday.  We're fine and no major property damage, but my internet connection went out early Thursday and we only JUST got it back late yesterday, so I have lots of catching up to do.



Glad to know that every is ok, and getting back to normal on your side ! I saw footage in Fort Myers today , intense stuff !

My wife and I and our 3y old daughter are actually planning a trip to Florida for a few weeks in December-January in our campervan (Ocala national forest) to escape your very harsh Montreal winter.

So thanks for taking the time to answer ! I just ordered everything needed for the ELS yesterday. And of course I will be following James for the install but I am also following another guy on Youtube his channel is  :  Routercnc

I have a Wm210v so his lathe is bigger than mine, so I will have to adjust may things. And like you I can feel this is going to be an adventure !
I'm really interested in your setup to be honest, the MX-210V is pretty much the same lathe I have and any inspiration will be welcome.

If you can provide a download link for your .STL  printed gears, I'm in !

As for he DRO I finally decided to pull the trigger on the Igaging that were on sale at Busybee tools up here in Canada.
They where really affordable , and it will have to do for the moment.

I will be following the  "Mat's Workshop" youtube channel


I will also get the fancy LCD DRO with the milling machine I will order ..... soon

Thanks again for your reply, can wait to see your pictures !

Please disregard my average written English , French canadian here ....

-L


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## gregreid

Sorry it took so long, but I finally got around to making some videos of my lathe DRO and ELS (and etc.) setup.  Here's a link that should bring you to SIX separate videos:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/wqaXNRgXaXCiFEot7 

The first two are for the DRO: it seems that I accidentally hit the STOP button on my iPhone during the first recording as I needed three hands to do the measuring while holding the phone, so the second short video is really an extension of the first.  Then the third video describes the ELS setup, extended a bit into an important extra note at the start of the 4th video.  The fifth and sixth vids are just "fluff" that you can skip.

Here's a link to a directory on my Google Drive where I've uploaded all of the STLs and related design files for the 3D printed parts I've made for my lathe:  https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KeFVROIv2zM-9rxMguDKpmQE4eO6Bq92 

As you'll see from the subdirectory names, many/most of them came from Thingiverse (I've included the Thingiverse number in the subdir name) or Printables (ditto).  I've modified pretty much all of them to suit my MX-210V.  

They're not very well organized, I'm afraid.  But if you sort by date you should find the STLs that I used as the most recent files.  For example you'll find the encoder bracket and the 33 and 56 tooth gears in the Omron rotary encoder mount subdir.

Greg


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## Luca_L

gregreid said:


> Sorry it took so long, but I finally got around to making some videos of my lathe DRO and ELS (and etc.) setup.  Here's a link that should bring you to SIX separate videos:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/wqaXNRgXaXCiFEot7
> 
> The first two are for the DRO: it seems that I accidentally hit the STOP button on my iPhone during the first recording as I needed three hands to do the measuring while holding the phone, so the second short video is really an extension of the first.  Then the third video describes the ELS setup, extended a bit into an important extra note at the start of the 4th video.  The fifth and sixth vids are just "fluff" that you can skip.
> 
> Here's a link to a directory on my Google Drive where I've uploaded all of the STLs and related design files for the 3D printed parts I've made for my lathe:  https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KeFVROIv2zM-9rxMguDKpmQE4eO6Bq92
> 
> As you'll see from the subdirectory names, many/most of them came from Thingiverse (I've included the Thingiverse number in the subdir name) or Printables (ditto).  I've modified pretty much all of them to suit my MX-210V.
> 
> They're not very well organized, I'm afraid.  But if you sort by date you should find the STLs that I used as the most recent files.  For example you'll find the encoder bracket and the 33 and 56 tooth gears in the Omron rotary encoder mount subdir.
> 
> Greg



Wow Greg, Thank you so much for these links and your impromptu videos ! That is very generous of you and very very helpful ! 

I love your solution to put the encoder inside the hollow space there ! I seem have the same available space in there but in my case (WM210v) the cast iron frame surrounding the spindle and enclosing the RMP display and the potentiometer is one big piece. There is no way to remove the side like you did. I only have access from the front... I'll have to figure out something else.  

Also I was thinking of reusing the banjo bracket like you did. I probably wont be able to do it exactly that way, but you are confirming my initial thought ! Thanks for that !

Ill get back to you on this and i'll keep you posted ...

-L


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