# Ordered 1127 Vf Lb



## timekeeper01 (Jan 19, 2016)

Hi all.  Been researching this for around a year now. I repair timepieces, mostly large grandfather clocks, and my watchmakers lathe just was'nt large enough.
Today I ordered a PM 1127 VF LB from Matt.
Now the questions begin:  I don't think much of buying a chuck specific for using a 5c collet, but that is what
is offered from Precision Mathews.
Has anyone out there built/purchased a morse adapter or draw bar that fits this lathe that will accept 5c collets?
Looking forward to learning more about this machine as the delivery draws near.
btw:  I also have the pm45 mill with dro, and have been very happy with it.
Kevin.


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## jbolt (Jan 19, 2016)

Congrats on the new lathe. 

I made a manual collet closer for ours. Grizzly sells a MT to 5C adapter that works. You need to make a tube, bushing and hand wheel (I modified a hand wheel I got from Enco). I will try and post  some pictures later.

Jay


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## timekeeper01 (Jan 19, 2016)

jbolt said:


> Congrats on the new lathe.
> 
> I made a manual collet closer for ours. Grizzly sells a MT to 5C adapter that works. You need to make a tube, bushing and hand wheel (I modified a hand wheel I got from Enco). I will try and post  some pictures later.
> 
> Jay


Thank you for the reply


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## jbolt (Jan 19, 2016)

Parts I used:
Grizzly P4026001 collet adapter. http://www.grizzly.com/parts/p4026001 (appears to have doubled in price)
Enco 327-6454 handwheel. http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=22546197&PMAKA=327-6454
1.5" OD by 1" ID 4130 steel tube for the draw tube.
2.5" dia 1018 steel for spindle outer end adapter bushing.
The white pieces are delrin. 

The tubing OD was turned for spindle bore clearance. The ID was bored and threaded for the 5C collet outer thread and enough depth clearance room for a collet stop. Draw tube was straight knurled on the hand wheel end and pressed in. The hand wheel comes un-bored.


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## jbolt (Jan 19, 2016)

What is Matt asking for the 5c collet chuck for the 1127? 

The 1127 we have is used by the high school robotics club and the manual closer works well or the students for what they do. On my personal lathe I have a 5C collet chuck which I prefer. My lathe has a D1-4 spindle nose so chuck changes are easy. 

An alternative would be to purchase a plain base 5C collet chuck from Shars, CDCO, ebay etc. and a blank backplate.


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## Chipper5783 (Jan 19, 2016)

Hi Kevin, I've been in the same situation you are working towards.  I've been at this for a while.  I now have three options.

My original lathe is a 15" machine with an MT5 spindle taper and D1-4 mount.  I made up a MT5-C5 adapter sleeve and a drawbar.  It worked fine.  The drawbacks were that the carriage would not get up close to the headstock (carriage wings running into the gearbox) and removal of the adapter sleeve.  Neither of these is a big deal: crank out the compound (or hang the tools out) - which is okay for fine work, and I made up a nice knocking bar to remove the sleeve.  Also, I made my own collets, which was a lot of work so I never did make very many.  Also, I had no good way to measure the threads, so I made some collets close to what the book said, then I made the drawbar to fit - when I later got some real collets, the drawbar thread is undersize.

Anyway, next evolution is that I bought a nice little lathe that had the headstock taper bored for C5 collets.  This is a nicely set up machine (Smart and Brown) and the spindle nose is out over the bed a bit, so tools can be brought up nice and close.  This works great as it puts the work real close to the spindle bearings and you can keep all the tooling in close too.  This came with a proper factory drawbar (an aluminum handwheel so it is unlikely to unscrew when I hit the start button, and a roller thrust bearing to reduce friction when pulling the collet in).  The machine was available with a built in collet closer - but that's not what was for sale on auction day.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/smart-and-brown-1024-lathe-another-trip-to-the-auction.30870/

Okay, now another auction, I got a Bison C5 collet chuck - for the above 15" lathe.   I had to buy and trim an adapter, made a couple chuck keys.  This is quite handy, the chuck is out over the bed so it is easier to bring the tools right up to the work.

Let us know what you end up doing.


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## Chipper5783 (Jan 19, 2016)

If your wallet is real tight, don't bother with collets (sure, collets are nice but there is nearly always a work around). 

If you have a little spare cash and really want to try it, I suggest you buy an adapter sleeve and individual collets.  Make a drawbar and use it for a while.

Perhaps the cheapest in the long run is to pony up the cash (now or later, wait for an opportunity) - buy a spindle mounted collet chuck and a set of 1/16" collets.


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## timekeeper01 (Jan 21, 2016)

jbolt said:


> What is Matt asking for the 5c collet chuck for the 1127?
> 
> The 1127 we have is used by the high school robotics club and the manual closer works well or the students for what they do. On my personal lathe I have a 5C collet chuck which I prefer. My lathe has a D1-4 spindle nose so chuck changes are easy.
> 
> An alternative would be to purchase a plain base 5C collet chuck from Shars, CDCO, ebay etc. and a blank backplate.


Right now the chuck is not in stock. I'll check back with Matt in a month or two.


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## timekeeper01 (Jan 21, 2016)

jbolt said:


> Parts I used:
> Grizzly P4026001 collet adapter. http://www.grizzly.com/parts/p4026001 (appears to have doubled in price)
> Enco 327-6454 handwheel. http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=22546197&PMAKA=327-6454
> 1.5" OD by 1" ID 4130 steel tube for the draw tube.
> ...


Thanks for the reply and parts supply. I think this is above my skill level. I'll order the collet chuck when it is available


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## jbolt (Jan 21, 2016)

Well I hope you have better luck than we did when we bought our 1127. We waited over a year before finally asking for a credit back because they could not get them in stock. Hopefully it is better now.

Jay


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## timekeeper01 (Jan 21, 2016)

jbolt said:


> Well I hope you have better luck than we did when we bought our 1127. We waited over a year before finally asking for a credit back because they could not get them in stock. Hopefully it is better now.
> 
> Jay


Matt said he had two ( I think he said two) in stock when I ordered.


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## lpeedin (Jan 25, 2016)

Lately I have been very interested in the idea of having a collet chuck on my 1127 as well.  I am leaning towards a back-plate mounted type chuck rather than having an adapter and long tube closer.  I would imagine that the adapter style "may" be inherently more accurate simply due to there being a direct fit on the MT5 taper, but I doubt it would ever be an issue with an back-plate mounted chuck instead.


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## mksj (Jan 25, 2016)

Do not know what type of mount is on the 1127, but you are probably limited on 5C chucks. Lathemaster does make a plain back 5C tru-setting type that might be adaptable to this machine. I have the D1-4 type mount of this chuck, it is decent quality without going to a Bison.  Another consideration is an ER-40 collet block system and chuck it up into your 4J. The ER blocks will pass stock through them, as opposed to standard ER chucks. I use the 5C for most everything under 1", but you need a a full set of 65+ collets if you want to cover the full clamping range, and this can get pricey. A collet closure system might be more accurate from an angular pull point of view, but the 5C collets TIR specs as a whole are worse than ER collets. Probably chasing your tail as to which system gives the least TIR, the Grizzly P4026001 collet adapter is hit or miss on its accuracy.  The collet closure described above may be the least expensive, and looks like it would work well if you used this system a lot, providing your collet adapter is running true.
5C Collet racks and some discussion: http://www.lathemaster.com/lathemaster 5c collet chuck.htm


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## jbolt (Jan 25, 2016)

3dshooter80 said:


> Lately I have been very interested in the idea of having a collet chuck on my 1127 as well.  I am leaning towards a back-plate mounted type chuck rather than having an adapter and long tube closer.  I would imagine that the adapter style "may" be inherently more accurate simply due to there being a direct fit on the MT5 taper, but I doubt it would ever be an issue with an back-plate mounted chuck instead.



The only issue with the 1127 with regards to chucks is the non-standard spindle nose. PM sells a 5C chuck for this lathe but stock has been hit and miss in the past. It may be better now. I have not heard what the typical run-out is for there chucks. I would consider getting a decent quality plain base 5C chuck and a blank back plate to fit yourself  for the most accuracy. 

I will also add that the spindle taper on our 1127 was not ground parallel with the spindle axis.  At first we thought it was the Grizzly P4026001 collet adapter. A test bar confirmed the spindle taper was at fault. The 5C adapeter we have is within 0.0005".


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