# Starting to outfit a home shop. Need some advice



## Sunpilot (Mar 23, 2021)

Hi all.  I'm retired with a lot of spare time and I want to get into machining.  I had a long lost education in machining, when I was very young, and I have a lot to learn or catch up on.  I'm thinking that I want to start with a nice lathe and mill.  I have room in my garage for machines, so that won't be a problem.  I've looked at some used stuff online but they don't come up very often out here in Arizona.  On top of that, I'm not sure I would know a good machine when I see one, or even worse, a bad machine when I see one and I don't have anyone knowledgable to go with me.  So, I think a new unit would be the best way to go.  I've looked at the Asian websites and see a lot of offerings but I can't figure which are the better ones and which to stay away from.  I'm sure budget is a good place to start so I'm thinking about $4500 for the lathe to start.  Probably the same for the mill.  I'd love to hear opinions on best bang for the buck machines.  Which to shy away from and which are trusted brands.  Size-wize I'm probably in the 11 to 13" range, money is going to dictate that I suppose. I don't have to worry about space or stairs as they will be going in my three car garage with level driveway.  Any help or recommendations are welcome.


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## MrWhoopee (Mar 23, 2021)

Welcome Sunpilot, you're in good company here. 
Precision Matthews machines are very popular here and get consistently good reviews.


			https://www.precisionmatthews.com/


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## mickri (Mar 23, 2021)

Think about what you want to make with your lathe and mill.  Let that dictate what to look for.  A lathe for making clocks is vastly different from a lathe for gunsmithing.  Do you need a large spindle bore.  What about length between centers.  Metric threading in addition to imperial threading.  In your budgeting don't forget about all of the other stuff you will need to actually make precision parts.  There are some excellent threads on here that will lay out what you need.  Don't be overwhelmed with the seemly endless things to buy.  In buying tooling don't buy everything under the sun to start.  Just buy what you need for a particular project.   When buying stuff buy the best quality that you can afford.  Having quality stuff will pay off in the long run.

Welcome to the forum.  We are a friendly bunch.  The really knowledgeable people on here will help you with any questions that you may have.  So don't be afraid to ask any question no matter how trivial you may thing that it is.


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## markba633csi (Mar 23, 2021)

Howdy and welcome.  Precision Matthews is popular here and we also have quite a few satisfied Grizzly owners.  I have heard some not-so-good stories about some of the other brands of imports.  PM is particularly noted for good service after the sale, but Grizzly has upped their service game in the last few years also.
Taiwan made machines are considered a cut above those made in mainland China, and the prices reflect that.
-Mark


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## Sunpilot (Mar 24, 2021)

I've heard and read good things about PM.  For some reason I always thought Grizzly was in the same category as Harbor freight but I am probably wrong. I've been looking at web sites.  If anyone else has any brands to look at or stay away from I love to hear about them.   As for the use I am intending, it will be variable but probably not gunsmithing.  I think I will be looking at about 36" between centers and both metric and imperial thread capability.  My belief is to get maybe more machine than I need now to avoid the hassle of moving to a larger one.  Does that make sense?


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## Sunpilot (Mar 24, 2021)

I have a question for you knowledgeable folks.  Why is a gun smith lathe so much more money than a same size engine lathe?


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## Aukai (Mar 24, 2021)

Probably better tolerances can be held for the gun smith lathes. What size projects do you have, or are interested in? That will determine the sizes of machines might fit your needs. What do you have for electrical sources? You will need to expand it.


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## Sunpilot (Mar 24, 2021)

Aukai said:


> Probably better tolerances can be held for the gun smith lathes. What size projects do you have, or are interested in? That will determine the sizes of machines might fit your needs. What do you have for electrical sources? You will need to expand it.


I have 220 in my garage for my welder and I can extend or add probably two more outlets to the other side of garage easily.  My projects won't initially use full capacity of 12-36 but probably will in time.


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## Aukai (Mar 24, 2021)

If you can separate the garage from the house with 200 amp service, 100 for the house, 100 for the garage with separate breaker boxes without too much expense, that might help. Make a plan for what you want to do. I had a 2 gang plug in the garage, and a 220v for the welder. I cannot expand my service, but I now have 5, 4 gang 110v plugs, 2 x 220v plugs for the welders, 1 220v for the compressor, a 220v for the mill, and now a new 220v for a VFD, and a rotary phase converter. The rabbit hole gets deep quick, my TIG welder has a special plug that will give a full 100 amp service if needed, now if I'm using it at that amperage, and she turns on a light in the house it will trip the circuit. If your needs are smaller scale disregard.


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## Sunpilot (Mar 24, 2021)

Aukai said:


> If you can separate the garage from the house with 200 amp service, 100 for the house, 100 for the garage with separate breaker boxes without too much expense, that might help. Make a plan for what you want to do. I had a 2 gang plug in the garage, and a 220v for the welder. I cannot expand my service, but I now have 5, 4 gang 110v plugs, 2 x 220v plugs for the welders, 1 220v for the compressor, a 220v for the mill, and now a new 220v for a VFD, and a rotary phase converter. The rabbit hole gets deep quick, my TIG welder has a special plug that will give a full 100 amp service if needed, now if I'm using it at that amperage, and she turns on a light in the house it will trip the circuit. If your needs are smaller scale disregard.


I live alone so when I'm working I don't have other things running.  I won't be using two or three machines at the same time. I have extra space in my main breaker box plus a sub in my garage.  I  have a Hobart 190 mig and never have any problems, even when my whole house a/c is running, which is almost always here in the desert!


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## Just for fun (Mar 24, 2021)

Welcome to the site Sunpilot.  I'm new here myself and like you have the desire to get into trouble....... I mean machining.   I've been hanging out here for a couple month now.   I can't say enough about how nice this forum is, with lots of intelligent and guys. 

So here is my plan at present.   I'm going to avoid the Chinese stuff and go with a PM-1236T lathe and a PM-833TV mill.   I don't have anything particular that I want to make, but I don't want Chinese and I don't want to small either.

Tim


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## sdelivery (Mar 24, 2021)

My suggestion is you find a J head Bridgeport and a 13-16 inch lathe.
Look for used American made machinery.
In the LONG run you will be happier and you will have machines that can grow with your talents, parts are readily available. They are built stronger and will handle oops better.


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## brino (Mar 24, 2021)

Sunpilot said:


> Why is a gun smith lathe so much more money than a same size engine lathe?



Hello @Sunpilot,

I believe the "tolerances" answer above is part of the story. Another part is the headstock bearing sizes.

Often with gunsmithing a rifle barrel will need to be mounted thru the headstock.
This requires the headstock thru-hole to be large enough to accommodate.

Well you likely can't get bigger bearing ID without  bigger bearing OD too. 
Then the headstock that holds those bearings might be bigger too.

So while two lathes may look the same in terms of the two most popularly quoted specs (swing x bed length).
They may be much different in terms of bearing size and quality.

Please let us know how your search for machines progresses.

-brino


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## Sunpilot (Mar 24, 2021)

sdelivery said:


> My suggestion is you find a J head Bridgeport and a 13-16 inch lathe.
> Look for used American made machinery.
> In the LONG run you will be happier and you will have machines that can grow with your talents, parts are readily available. They are built stronger and will handle oops better.


I've been looking for well over a month and good used machines are hard to find.  I live in Arizona, not really a hot bed of manufacturing and industry, so machines don't come up very often. I almost had a chance at Bridgeport mill about forty miles from where I live but there was so much response that the first person to look at it bought it.  It's getting frustrating, really.  Most new machines are on back order and used are difficult to find.


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## Sunpilot (Mar 24, 2021)

brino said:


> Hello @Sunpilot,
> 
> I believe the "tolerances" answer above is part of the story. Another part is the headstock bearing sizes.
> 
> ...


Brino,

I will post when I finally acquire something for sure.  I'm sure the bearings and head size must have a big role in the difference.  Maybe a gun smith might have more insight.  Thanks for your thoughts

Frank


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## Sunpilot (Mar 24, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> Welcome to the site Sunpilot.  I'm new here myself and like you have the desire to get into trouble....... I mean machining.   I've been hanging out here for a couple month now.   I can't say enough about how nice this forum is, with lots of intelligent and guys.
> 
> So here is my plan at present.   I'm going to avoid the Chinese stuff and go with a PM-1236T lathe and a PM-833TV mill.   I don't have anything particular that I want to make, but I don't want Chinese and I don't want to small either.
> 
> Tim


Tim,

If I go new, I have the same machines on my list. I'm puzzled by some specs between the 1236T and plain 1236 Precision models though.  The T version is $1000 more without a stand and it weighs less than the cheaper Precision. I initially thought all PM machines were made in Taiwan but apparently not.  I'm wondering what drives the huge price difference?

Frank


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## KevinM (Mar 24, 2021)

Any PM machine with a T in it is made in Taiwan.


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## Janderso (Mar 24, 2021)

Welcome to the game Sunpilot.
You mentioned Grizzly. I am of the opinion Grizzly also has 100% Taiwan machines.
If you are looking for better fit and finish quality, it seems new Taiwan machine tools have the advantage over the Chinese.
I agree with the others that say, buy old American iron, you'll never regret it.
In some parts of the country these machines come up on a regular basis. 
I can see where AZ would be an exception.
Now, if you want to buy a good used golf cart, AZ may be the place -wink.

What ever you end up doing, you'll get plenty of help along the way.


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## Cadillac STS (Mar 24, 2021)

Put a good quality horizontal band saw on the machine list.  You need that to cut down stock to work with and will use it frequently.


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## sdelivery (Mar 24, 2021)

Look up a company in Cleveland Ohio  called Taz see what they have available and the prices.
There stuff is sweeeet


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## mickri (Mar 24, 2021)

Expand your search to LA.  It is a one day drive.  Make it a fun road trip.  Lots of machines for sale in the LA area.  I use searchtempest.com when searching for stuff on CL.


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## Chewy (Mar 24, 2021)

A couple of points to mull over. PM or Grizzly, the 1236 gunsmith lathe is usually heavier.  That makes a huge difference in the operation of the machine.  Ditto for the mill.  A 2000 lb mill will run circles around a 400 lb mill. The smaller mill is perfectly capable of doing what you want, but may take 3-4 times as long. You can take much better cuts on the 1236 gunsmith lathe then my1228.  Same for a Bridgeport vs my PM30-MV mill.  Try to stay with a D1 mount on the lathe or other mount that is more then just screwed  on.  Then you can run the lathe in reverse.  Yes you can run a screw chuck in reverse as many here will point out but there is always the possibility that the chuck can come off.  Way too many reasons for running in reverse than to cover here. The light stuff will need more setup and fussing over then an old iron beast but it is a good learning experience. If you decide to go with old Iron, you may need to factor in a 3 phase converter.

As pointed out, if you can get a good quality used machine, then you will like it. However if it needs any work, that could put the brakes on in a hurry.  By myself, I couldn't handle fixing the machines, so I bought new. Now with a "decent shop setup"  I am looking at bargains to try to restore.  Lots of stuff on Craigslist & FB. I am doing Gunsmithing stuff and starting out building steam engines, plus general repairs for a small company.

Money!!
When you buy tooling, really research it.  You can get mill boring heads for $25+ all day long.  They screw together.  I bought mine as a one piece for $ 100.  Used it twice in reverse in the last two years and it saved the day.  Rotary tables, get one vertical/horizontal with matching tail-stock. When you need it, beats shimming with machinist jack.
Same with mics & measuring equipment. I use Shars & Igauging for everyday use. I can always stay within .002 of everything I want to do. If I want better then that, I use Starett & Mititoyo in a room temperature shop.  I cry less on an $30 Igauging DTI dropped on the loor than $150 Best Test.
If you buy a $500 dollar machine or a $10K machine, you will eat up tons of money on tooling.  Buy the best at good prices or really good make do at cheaper prices.  When you first start out you will need to buy something every time you fire up the machine. It takes awhile before you can just walk up and say I have the stuff to make this. 2 years for me and I am still jumping into the rabbit hole. 

Welcome aboard and good luck with your hobby.


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## Sunpilot (Mar 24, 2021)

KevinM said:


> Any PM machine with a T in it is made in Taiwan.


Good to know.  I wasn't aware of that.  Thanks


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## Sunpilot (Mar 24, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Welcome to the game Sunpilot.
> You mentioned Grizzly. I am of the opinion Grizzly also has 100% Taiwan machines.
> If you are looking for better fit and finish quality, it seems new Taiwan machine tools have the advantage over the Chinese.
> I agree with the others that say, buy old American iron, you'll never regret it.
> ...


Thanks for the reply.  Yep, golf carts are all over the place out here!  LOL  I've been looking at Grizzly also.  Lots to think about when a big chunk of cash is on the table!


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## Sunpilot (Mar 24, 2021)

Cadillac STS said:


> Put a good quality horizontal band saw on the machine list.  You need that to cut down stock to work with and will use it frequently.


Good idea.  I sold my table mounted saw last year... mistake!


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## Sunpilot (Mar 24, 2021)

sdelivery said:


> Look up a company in Cleveland Ohio  called Taz see what they have available and the prices.
> There stuff is sweeeet


I see machines for sale all over the midwest and east.  I grew up in Pittsburgh and my dad was a machinist.  I'll look them up and see what they have to offer.  I'll be headed back east in June to see family, so maybe it might work out.


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## Sunpilot (Mar 24, 2021)

mickri said:


> Expand your search to LA.  It is a one day drive.  Make it a fun road trip.  Lots of machines for sale in the LA area.  I use searchtempest.com when searching for stuff on CL.


Thanks for letting me know about LA.  I wasn't aware of the machines sold out there.  You're right, a road trip would be fun and it isn't too far to haul a machine!  I'll have to try searchtempest too.  Thanks!

Frank


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## Sunpilot (Mar 24, 2021)

Chewy said:


> A couple of points to mull over. PM or Grizzly, the 1236 gunsmith lathe is usually heavier.  That makes a huge difference in the operation of the machine.  Ditto for the mill.  A 2000 lb mill will run circles around a 400 lb mill. The smaller mill is perfectly capable of doing what you want, but may take 3-4 times as long. You can take much better cuts on the 1236 gunsmith lathe then my1228.  Same for a Bridgeport vs my PM30-MV mill.  Try to stay with a D1 mount on the lathe or other mount that is more then just screwed  on.  Then you can run the lathe in reverse.  Yes you can run a screw chuck in reverse as many here will point out but there is always the possibility that the chuck can come off.  Way too many reasons for running in reverse than to cover here. The light stuff will need more setup and fussing over then an old iron beast but it is a good learning experience. If you decide to go with old Iron, you may need to factor in a 3 phase converter.
> 
> As pointed out, if you can get a good quality used machine, then you will like it. However if it needs any work, that could put the brakes on in a hurry.  By myself, I couldn't handle fixing the machines, so I bought new. Now with a "decent shop setup"  I am looking at bargains to try to restore.  Lots of stuff on Craigslist & FB. I am doing Gunsmithing stuff and starting out building steam engines, plus general repairs for a small company.
> 
> ...


You mentioned a lot of good points for me.  If I could find a decent used machine I would love that.  I love restoring old things.  Hell, I might even find a way to make money buying, restoring, and selling old iron.    I'm aware of the things I will need to go with the machines.  Everything costs these days, but some stuff can be made in your own shop... that would be the ultimate reward, making somethging when you need it!  I already have some measuring and gauges, etc.  I am of the school that I buy the best I can afford. Good things can last a lifetime.  Thanks for your guidance, I appreciate all the advice and replies I am getting on this forum.

Frank


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## sdelivery (Mar 24, 2021)

I am in Cleveland and I see alot of used equipment. Let me know if I can help.
One of my customers is around the corner from HGR so if you need someone to look at something there I can do that for you as well.


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## mickri (Mar 24, 2021)

Tooling wise I buy as little as possible and make as much as I can.  For example I made a QCTP and a dozen tool holders for my lathe.  Have steel to make 5 or 6 more if I need to.  Made a spider for the out board end of the spindle.  An ER32 collet chuck for the spindle.  And more.  My home made stuff typically isn't pretty to look at but functions nicely.  

You will get lots of support in making your own tooling.


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## Aukai (Mar 24, 2021)

Try putting in what size lathe you want, Ebay, and other adds will be up front. I tried 1440 and 2 good name lathes are in California in the 5 K range. Watch for MrWhoopee's listings, he posts up what he's seeing in Ca too.








						PLACE CRAIGSLIST, MARKETPLACE, OFFER UP, ADS HERE
					

Found a deal on Craigslist, Marketplace, Offer-Up, etc.? Please post it here!




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## Sunpilot (Mar 24, 2021)

sdelivery said:


> I am in Cleveland and I see alot of used equipment. Let me know if I can help.
> One of my customers is around the corner from HGR so if you need someone to look at something there I can do that for you as well.


Thanks for the offer.  I'm coming back east late spring.. When I leave for the east coast maybe I'll let you know, if I haven't found anything in the meantime.  I really appreciate it

Frank


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## Sunpilot (Mar 24, 2021)

Aukai said:


> Try putting in what size lathe you want, Ebay, and other adds will be up front. I tried 1440 and 2 good name lathes are in California in the 5 K range. Watch for MrWhoopee's listings, he posts up what he's seeing in Ca too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll keep my eyes open for those listings.  I look at that thread everyday lately!


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## rongee (Mar 24, 2021)

HI Sunpilot,
I'm a rookie myself, recently retired, so take anything I say with a huge grain of salt.  I'm learning on much smaller equipment than you're looking for, in my case a 7x16 lathe from Little Machine Shop.  What I wanted to add to what the other far more knowledgeable folks have already said is that as you look at your budget, it usually works out that the machine itself ends up being just a part of your spending.  You're going to find that you *need* a number of things in order to actually start doing things, and you're going to find that you *want* to get other things, just because. I'm pretty sure that it's impossible to run out of things that you can get for the machine that you buy.   It could be a DRO, and there's lots of options there.  You could decide that you want add CNC, and there are lots of options there as well.  Just examples.  One other thought, and that has to do with physical constraints.  When I started looking into this, I had no idea what things weigh.  My workshop is in my basement, so I had some basic limits as to what I could get down there.  I've seen videos on Youtube of a fella that hired a crane to lower his new equipment into his basement.  I think you said you're in your garage, and that will probably make things a lot simpler.  Anyway, good luck and have fun!


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## Sunpilot (Mar 25, 2021)

rongee said:


> HI Sunpilot,
> I'm a rookie myself, recently retired, so take anything I say with a huge grain of salt.  I'm learning on much smaller equipment than you're looking for, in my case a 7x16 lathe from Little Machine Shop.  What I wanted to add to what the other far more knowledgeable folks have already said is that as you look at your budget, it usually works out that the machine itself ends up being just a part of your spending.  You're going to find that you *need* a number of things in order to actually start doing things, and you're going to find that you *want* to get other things, just because. I'm pretty sure that it's impossible to run out of things that you can get for the machine that you buy.   It could be a DRO, and there's lots of options there.  You could decide that you want add CNC, and there are lots of options there as well.  Just examples.  One other thought, and that has to do with physical constraints.  When I started looking into this, I had no idea what things weigh.  My workshop is in my basement, so I had some basic limits as to what I could get down there.  I've seen videos on Youtube of a fella that hired a crane to lower his new equipment into his basement.  I think you said you're in your garage, and that will probably make things a lot simpler.  Anyway, good luck and have fun!


Thanks for the input.  I do have a big garage with easy access so no problems moving things in or out.  I actually watched some videos of people moving around 1500 to 2000# machines, quite interesting!  I'm biding my time, trying to educate myself, and asking questions so I can make good choices.  With help from you and the other respondents, I'm getting valuable knowledge.  Once again Thank you for the advice
frank


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## T Bredehoft (Mar 25, 2021)

As a neophyte, I'd suggest you see that your lathe can change feeds and speeds without hassle. That means onboard gear box, or Quick Change Gear Box, QCGB. You will become frustrated having to change the actual gears, to effect different cutting feeds. This will still be within your budget, just make sure you get the QCGB. Sometimes it's not obvious.


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## derfatdutchman (Mar 25, 2021)

If at all possible stay away from a round column mill/drill, I had one for twenty years and lived with its limitations.


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## Sunpilot (Mar 25, 2021)

derfatdutchman said:


> If at all possible stay away from a round column mill/drill, I had one for twenty years and lived with its limitations.


I'm aware of the pitfalls of round column mills.  Thanks for reminding me though.


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## ArmyDoc (Mar 25, 2021)

The old adage is, "Lathes make circles, Mills make squares."  A lathe can make a straight cut, but not as well as a mill, and a mill can make a circle, but not as well as a lathe.  So which should you get first?  You're going to want both, so base your decision either on what you think you will do most often, or alternatively (since you will want both) on the first/best deal you come across.   Here are some factors to evaluate / questions you want to ask yourself and know the answer to when selecting the best machines to meet your needs.

Considerations when choosing a Lathe
   - What do you intend to make in terms of size and material - determines swing, length and mass of your machine.  (You will likely want more than you actually need.   But it's also true that you often need more than you think.)
   - bore size if doing barrel work or other things with longer pieces you may want to pass through the spindle bore
   - Available power - voltage 120, 220, 440, single vs three phase
        - 3 phase is great, but you may have to allocate extra for a VFD or RPC
   - Physical space available / ability to move machine to desired location (#2000 machines don't go up or down stairs well...)
   - desire for new vs used machine (largely determined by your willingness to spend time working on you lathe, rather than spending time doing work on your lathe)
   - DRO vs Manual dials - not felt to be as important on a lathe as on a Mill
   - RPM - range as well as adjustability of that range (in other words variable speed vs gear / pulley setting fixed speeds) affects finish and materials
   - Hp - affects finish and materials you can work with.
   - budget (yeah... at least give lip service to it like the rest of us pretend to do. )

Considerations for a Mill
   - size of what you intend to make.  (refer to first comment on lathe size regarding how much you want vs need)
   - rigidity - which is often reflected by weight, but design / machine type also plays a large role.  Flexibility affects rigidity too.  For example a knee mill with it's ability to both nod and rotate the head is very flexible, but not as rigid as some other designs.
   - DRO vis manual - a DRO is generally felt to be much more important on a Mill than a lathe.
   - Physical space available, ability to get machine there (as above)
   - Manual vs Power feeds
   - CNC capability or upgradability
   - RPM - range as well as adjustability of that range (in other words variable speed vs gear / pulley setting fixed speeds) affects finish and materials
   - Hp - affects finish and materials you can work with.
   - budget (yeah... what I said before.)

Leave some room in the budget for tooling.  Even basic tooling can run 25-50% the cost of the machine itself, and over the years it is not uncommon to spend as much or more on tooling than you did on the machines.


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## Sunpilot (Mar 25, 2021)

tHANKS FOR YOUR TIME.  i APPRECIATE THE ADVICE


ArmyDoc said:


> The old adage is, "Lathes make circles, Mills make squares."  A lathe can make a straight cut, but not as well as a mill, and a mill can make a circle, but not as well as a lathe.  So which should you get first?  You're going to want both, so base your decision either on what you think you will do most often, or alternatively (since you will want both) on the first/best deal you come across.   Here are some factors to evaluate / questions you want to ask yourself and know the answer to when selecting the best machines to meet your needs.
> 
> Considerations when choosing a Lathe
> - What do you intend to make in terms of size and material - determines swing, length and mass of your machine.  (You will likely want more than you actually need.   But it's also true that you often need more than you think.)
> ...


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## Sunpilot (Mar 25, 2021)

Thanks for your insight and advice.  I appreciate the time you took to reply.

Frank


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## Mitch Alsup (Mar 25, 2021)

Sunpilot said:


> I'm retired with a lot of spare time and I want to get into machining.  I had a long lost education in machining, when I was very young, and I have a lot to learn or catch up on.  I'm thinking that I want to start with a nice lathe and mill.  I have room in my garage for machines, so that won't be a problem.  I've looked at some used stuff online but they don't come up very often out here in Arizona.  On top of that, I'm not sure I would know a good machine when I see one, or even worse, a bad machine when I see one and I don't have anyone knowledgable to go with me.  So, I think a new unit would be the best way to go.  I've looked at the Asian websites and see a lot of offerings but I can't figure which are the better ones and which to stay away from.  I'm sure budget is a good place to start so I'm thinking about $4500 for the lathe to start.



Precision Mathews or Grizzly 12×36.

If you start looking at the lathes smaller than 12×36 you start seeing things that will make things harder to do on the lathe. 
You definitely want power cross feed,
You definitely want easy access to the compound lockdown.
I find the power lever on the carriage a necessity.
Also in this scale of lathe, you can pretty much cut any English thread without switching end gears.
And finally, these lathes are heavy enough (1200 pounds)
Gunsmithing lathes have better bearings in the headstock than similar but non GS lathes.

As to the mill, they really come into their own at 1000 pounds (but more weight is better.)
You will want a knee mill (4-axis).


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## randyjaco (Mar 25, 2021)

If you plan things out in advance, you will be happier with your shop. Before you start installing your equipment do a proposed layout of your shop. (It will change,but it will give you an idea of what can be done.) Get a lot of good florescent lighting. Get all the 110 vac wiring installed. I have a duplex box every 3 feet where possible. Each wall and the ceiling have its own circuit. Get all your lighting wired. I have white pegboard where ever possible on the walls. It helps reflect/disperse the light, and it holds a tremendous amount of tools where you can see them. Put a couple of automatic recoil wiring reels in strategic  locations. You will always need plugs in the center of the room and other locations. Plumb in all of your compressed air lines (Don't use PVC). Basically get your infrastructure completed before you start moving in your machines. Good luck


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## Larry$ (Mar 25, 2021)

Welcome to the forum. I started down this rabbet hole before I was fully retired. 1st machine was a used Jet 9x49 VS knee mill. Came with a Chinese very poor quality vice. Added a new Kurt vice, very nice. Spent over a year looking for a used lathe. Looking at the outside of them doesn't tell me much. Finally bought a new PM1440HD. Quality Tools has been good about taking care of a few minor issues. The lathe is OK but it is Chinese. That said it is a lot of lathe for the $. My metal working is in a corner of my manufacturing building with lots of 3 phase available. Even if I had to be in a place with only single phase, I'd get 3 phase tools and a rotary converter. Lathe came with a DRO, I added one to the mill. Recommended. As for all the accessories/ tooling, wait until you have a need. As for cheap  tooling, some is fine, others a struggle. My business was full of computers and CNC equipment. For hobby one offs, I don't feel the need for CNC.


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