# Harold Hall advanced grinding rest



## Technical Ted

Although I just recently finished up his simple grinding rest, I decided to make the advance rest now. Two reasons: 1) I really like the simple one and the capabilities that it has, but know that the advanced rest would be easier to set angles and be a little nicer to use. 2) I was looking for a nice mill project to do to test out and use my new to me milling machine!

So, as with the simple rest, I started drawing things up in Fusion 360 and started making chips. I usually draw things up as I go and mainly try to keep ahead of the machining. Started with the table, but put that on hold until I receive the flat head hex head screws I ordered so I could fit the countersinks with the actual screws I will be using (#8-32). Today, I squared up and dovetailed the two female slide parts (upper and lower). I'll drill/tap these for the gib screws tomorrow and post pictures of the parts I have so far as long as I don't get too tied up watching football!

So far, I've been happy with the mill. Runs nice and it's a lot easier to crank around than my B&S 2B mill!

Ted


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## HBilly1022

I'll be watching this one. I've been thinking of doing the same thing after I finished the simpler rest. 

By the way, you don't need to wait for the screws to arrive. For countersink depths there are tables that list the depth and width of the countersunk hole. I discovered this when I made the simpler rest and found it very useful because I could just use the "Z" dro to drill to the correct depth, the first time. No trial and error. I think the info was in Machinery's Handbook but I'm sure you could also Google it.


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## brino

I am watching too.


Thanks for sharing this build.
-brino


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## Technical Ted

Thanks I've got the charts but to be truthful never use them. Might with Fusion but not while making chips. Fusion actually has a hole function with a countersink option. I'm more comfortable doing it the hard way!  No DRO just dials and mechanical stops. Old habits die hard. If the setup allows I'll set the stop after fitting the first one and go from there. A DRO would be nice but if it's too easy it would take all the fun out of it! 

Ted


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## kvt

Ted,  which book are you getting the design out of.   I have the Milling for Home machinist which is the USA reprint.  
Are you making it Metric or converting size over to Inch.   

I will also be watching this one real close as wanted to start on it but 
 I kind of s____ at Fusion 360 or any of the drawing programs, and what is in the book is not that great.


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## Technical Ted

The book I'm using is "Milling a Complete Course"; the original. The drawings in the book certainly are adequate, but I am converting to inch as I go. I usually round to the nearest 1", 3/4", 1/2", etc. when things allow, sometimes nearest 32nd or even 64th. Doing things like this in Fusion 360 is great practice and I'm drawing things much quicker and easier now than I was when I first started so stick with it. You could, though, build it in metric or just convert directly to inch and write the inch dimensions next to the metric ones in the book. I'm sure that would work out fine.  

Ted


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## Andyf

Just a heads up for you Ted, there were a few modifications for the advanced rest. His web site shows them. Harold Hall Web Link


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## Technical Ted

Thanks for the heads up. I did see that and already printed out the drawing for the 3 mods. You can probably see in my CAD drawing I drew the thinner arms. Thanks for the heads up thought. It's nice to know you guys on this list have my back!

Ted


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## Alan H.

Ted, curious as to the Fusion model you have created.  How many "components" does that assembly have?

BTW, here's what the book looks like, I just ordered it.


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## Technical Ted

The drawing has a ways to go to be complete, I still have a lot of components to add, but right now I have I think 10 components. Each individual part is a component, like one side arm is a separate component. The other side arm is a different component even though I copied the first one I drew up. I did create a "Hardware" sub-assembly which contains all the hardware components (like screws, nuts, etc.). I just did this to keep things organized instead of having hardware sprinkled throughout. Now, I could very well have structured some of the components into sub-assemblies i.e. a top dovetail slide, a bottom dovetail slide, a gib,  (3) set screws,  (3) nuts as a slide sub-assembly, but decided to just use a "flat" structure because it's a pretty simple assembly as a whole. If it were more involved, I most likely would have done so.  

As you probably know, in Fusion, a body or group of bodies forming one solid, makes up a component (part) and then the components (parts) make up the assembly, or sub-assembly depending on your structure. An assembly can have multiple sub-assemblies or no sub-assemblies. You build things just like you would make up a Bill of Materials (BOM). You can make a BOM fully "indented" (showing sub-assemblies/structures) or build it "flat" as I did with this model. It's the choice of the person making the model. On very complex assemblies using sub-assemblies where possible would definitely help organization and make a lot of sense.

And, yes, that is the book I have. Very inexpensive. 

Thanks for the interest!
Ted


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## kvt

Here is the one I got,   Was supposed to be updated etc for USA but does not look any diff from others that I have gotten.


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## Technical Ted

Not too much to show, but here's the progress so far. Finished the two dovetailed slide swivel pieces, base plate started and the top slide piece ready to dovetail. Since the top of this piece is one of the bearing surfaces for the dovetail I want to skim it in the same setup as I dovetail it so everything is dead aligned. That only leaves less than 1/8" to hold the piece in a vise which, for my import vise anyways, is a tall order, so I made the piece with extra on each end so I can tie it down to the table, dovetail the sides and skim the top in one setup. After, I'll cut the extra off each end and mill the ends to finish length.

Ted


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## Technical Ted

A little more progress... both dovetail slides done complete with gibs. 

I might buy some nyloc nuts for the gib screws but the double locks will have to do for now since they are all I had on hand. I might not even need a locking nut since a single nut might lock the set screw just fine, but Harold suggests either a locking nut or two jam nuts so this is what I'm starting with. If one nut seems to work OK that's what I'll probably end up with. Time and testing will tell. 

The two male dovetails gave me a chance to try out the carbide insert dovetail cutter I made. It was too big for the female slides.

Now I've got to do some more CAD work so I can carry on!

Ted


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## Technical Ted

Got all the mill work done for now... just have the base angle left to do, but I'm going to change that design a little once I get everything made and assembled to better accommodate the use of the two mag bases. Using them is really sweet on the simpler rest. I'll most likely make a different angle base for the simpler one as well; maybe at the same time since they will probably be similar if not identical. 

Pictures of the side arms and spacer/angle blocks below, along with the finished base plate attached to the upper dovetail slide.

Now, a little more Fusion 360 work and move onto the lathe work.

Thanks for the interest,
Ted


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## kvt

By the way,   what steel are you using on this project.


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## Technical Ted

kvt said:


> By the way,   what steel are you using on this project.



Well, that's a good question on some of it!  Everything has been on hand and some of it mystery metal. It's really a Heinz 57. Some A36 plate, some 1045 key stock for one of the dovetails, some mystery metal. For the lathe stock it will be some 1020, 1018 and I might make the dials out of aluminum, not sure, maybe steel??? Whatever I have that's around the right size stock. I like using up short pieces when I can. Aluminum is nicer to knurl and scribe the division lines in, but we'll see what I have. I don't have much aluminum around. 

I've never been too fussy what material I use on projects unless I have good cause to do so. I did buy some cast iron for the bearings when I made the end mill sharpening fixture since I felt there was a benefit doing so for that application. 

Ted


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## kvt

I do not have much short pieces around so I was trying to figure out what I wanted or needed to purchase.  What I will prob have once I find it is Mystery metal as well.   Thinking about just  go to the scrap yard and see if I can find anything.    Have not even looked a the fixtures yet as have to get a rest made first.


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## Technical Ted

I guess as a general guide pretty much any mild carbon would work fine. If buying, some of the free machining stuff would be nice. But, it sounds like you and I have similar thinking with just going to the scrap yard and see what you can find cheap or free. Some of the material I use came off my dad's old farm and has been sitting outside for years... very pitted and rusty. But, once you take the top layer off, it's as good as new!  

Both my dad and I used to work at a local, now closed, boiler manufacturer Foster Wheeler. They had all kinds of scrap that we both got over the years and some of it was not plain old carbon. They used a lot of high temperature plate, bar stock, etc.. and I still run across pieces of it (non-marked) when grabbing something for a project. 99% of the time I use HSS tooling and when I see the blue chips coming off something I just slow things down and give the material the respect it deserves... It all works fine. 

Ted


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## HBilly1022

Looks like 3 of us have the same thinking. Pretty much everything I make comes from scrap yard steel of unknown composition too. Unlike you though I can't get any of it for free, around here it's $0.40 / lb for scrap steel. Also like you most of my steel is outside getting that nice brownish color on it.

Once again I follow in your footsteps, as I too have started making the advanced rest. So far just got the main blocks cut and milled to starting dimensions. I'm waiting for some dovetail cutters to arrive from China before I can cut the dovetails. I have a larger dovetail cutter but it's too big for this project. I did get a couple of the leadscrews made too and was dreading making those because it took me forever to make the one for the simple rest. I turned that one with full extension and unsupported. I had to take very light cuts with a sharply honed tool and it was extremely slow going. This time I found a better method, called step turning and that made my day. Weird how sometimes the simplest things get me excited.


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## Technical Ted

Not sure what size you made your lead screws, but I make mine #10-24. 

What I do is make them just a tad longer, put a center in the end and turn the end down smaller than the root of the thread. That way you can use a center in the tailstock to support the piece and you'll have some room for your threading tool at the start of the thread. Then, I put them in a collet and trim that extra end off, or you could just saw it off or whatever. 

Or, you could cheat and use a die! 

Please keep us posted either in this thread or start a new one,
Ted


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## kvt

Did not make it out to look for some metal this week end.   Wet and both wife and I had colds.   Will try to get out this weekend.  and find some chunks.   Another member in told me another place to get scraps, that may be better.   I also need to go past a machine shop and check with them.   Found one close to me.   Not many around where I live.


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## HBilly1022

Technical Ted said:


> Not sure what size you made your lead screws, but I make mine #10-24.
> 
> What I do is make them just a tad longer, put a center in the end and turn the end down smaller than the root of the thread. That way you can use a center in the tailstock to support the piece and you'll have some room for your threading tool at the start of the thread. Then, I put them in a collet and trim that extra end off, or you could just saw it off or whatever.
> 
> Or, you could cheat and use a die!
> 
> Please keep us posted either in this thread or start a new one,
> Ted



I made mine #10-24 too. I thought the 78 mm length would be too long to turn down to 0.190" even with the end supported, so I used the new to me, method of step turning to get the diameter right and then I did the unthinkable .......... I used a die, shhhhh don't tell anyone. 

I'll give your method a try just and see how it works for me, for future reference. Assuming I can remember if it worked, when I finally need to use it. lol


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## Technical Ted

HBilly1022 said:


> I made mine #10-24 too. I thought the 78 mm length would be too long to turn down to 0.190" even with the end supported, so I used the new to me, method of step turning to get the diameter right and then I did the unthinkable .......... I used a die, shhhhh don't tell anyone.
> 
> I'll give your method a try just and see how it works for me, for future reference. Assuming I can remember if it worked, when I finally need to use it. lol



I haven't had any trouble turning or threading any of these screws as long as I had a center in the end. Of course I take light cuts with a nice, sharp HSS tool. Haven't tried carbide, but even with that, if the cuts are light enough, I would think you'd be OK.

Step turning is a find way to go as well. Whatever works out best for you and your equipment. Just have fun! 

Ted


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## Technical Ted

Got a little more done. Nuts and lead screws done and one locking handle started. Starting to look like something now instead of just a pile of parts.

Ted


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## HBilly1022

Looks like your almost done. Nice work too.


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## kvt

Hope mine looks that good when I get going on it.


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## Technical Ted

HBilly1022 said:


> Looks like your almost done.



Well, I've got most of the "big show" items done, but there are still quite a few parts to make and a lot of putter work to do, like dimple drill parts, making the dials with graduations, altering and making the base angle, making and locating handles for the locking screws, cleaning and fitting, etc.. Still have the fences to make too. It will keep me busy for a while yet.  

Ted


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## HBilly1022

Technical Ted said:


> Well, I've got most of the "big show" items done, but there are still quite a few parts to make and a lot of putter work to do, like dimple drill parts, making the dials with graduations, altering and making the base angle, making and locating handles for the locking screws, cleaning and fitting, etc.. Still have the fences to make too. It will keep me busy for a while yet.
> 
> Ted



I know what you mean. The little things seem to take a lot of time ....... but for me, it all seems to take a lot of time. Enjoyable though.

I have a couple of questions for you, if you don't mind.
1) How did you turn the small leadscrews using the TS? I tried to set that up the other day and found the live center would interfere with the QCTP unless I hung the cutting tool way out from the holder.
2) How do you plan to attach the handles to the locking nuts? I see Harold's plans don't show them being threaded, so I'm guessing it is a press fit. Not sure if I would be able to get the fit good enough to make it stay in place.


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## Technical Ted

HBilly1022 said:


> I know what you mean. The little things seem to take a lot of time ....... but for me, it all seems to take a lot of time. Enjoyable though.
> 
> I have a couple of questions for you, if you don't mind.
> 1) How did you turn the small leadscrews using the TS? I tried to set that up the other day and found the live center would interfere with the QCTP unless I hung the cutting tool way out from the holder.
> 2) How do you plan to attach the handles to the locking nuts? I see Harold's plans don't show them being threaded, so I'm guessing it is a press fit. Not sure if I would be able to get the fit good enough to make it stay in place.



1- Well, it probably depends on how big your live center's body is, but you'll be taking such light cuts on that small diameter #10-24 screw that hanging the tool out shouldn't be an issue. I still had it in the holder, so here's a picture of the threading tool I used to thread them. Just use as large of a tool bit as you can and I bet you'll do just fine.

2- Harold says in there someplace that he suggests a two part epoxy. I've got some JB Weld that I'll be using. There really won't be much pressure on these so it shouldn't take much to hold them in there. Not much room for tapping the hole if you wanted to go that route. I might put a couple of grooves in the handle and the hole in the head will be rough from the drill so between those surfaces and the JB Weld I don't think it will ever come apart. I'll clean them good with Acetone before I apply the epoxy. 

Ted


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## HBilly1022

Thanks Ted. When I think about it, it's obvious that the tool stick out won't matter with light cuts. Duh!!

I guess I should read the text in his book instead of just looking at the drawings and going from there. I've always been one of those guys that doesn't read the directions until I run into a problem.


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## Technical Ted

Hahaha... sometimes, reading the directions can take all the fun out of things!

But, I would strongly suggest you do read the directions very carefully. There are a couple of items that I think could really end up biting you if you don't. A couple of things that come to mind are the way he suggests to drill the nuts for the cross feed screws. And, make sure you match mark your parts! Once you get everything aligned and fitted mixing the parts around isn't going to be fun. At least I found that alignments with the dovetail slides were not perfectly centered and then that makes the nut being threaded a touch off center. If you mix slides, the direction that the nut faces, etc. things will not fit properly. I did match mark mine, but tried to change things around and it didn't work for me. YMMV.

Ted


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## HBilly1022

Thanks for the heads up. Guess I better do some reading before I make any more parts. Still waiting for the dovetail cutters to come from Asia so I have time. I see you used a homemade one with great success. I made one before but it didn't work. The first few turns the insert chipped. Rotated the insert and tried again with the same results. I think the material I used for the shaft was too soft and was flexing. I might try making one again if I get impatient waiting for mine to arrive. 

Keep up the good work.

John


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## Technical Ted

This was the first time I used my homemade carbide insert dovetail cutter and here's what I found.

1- Run it fast. I used the highest speed my mill has, a little over 1600 RPM. I probably would have run it 1800-2000 RPM if I could have.
2- Take light cuts I think the heaviest cuts I took were ~ 0.020". Of course, this will be true with about any dovetail cutter that we'd be using in a home shop.
3- I don't know the the exact part number of the insert I used. Just something I had. They are a positive insert with clearance, but the clearance was not a great enough angle. I got a rough finish and I could see that the insert was rubbing on the bottom of its' cutting edge. So, I ground some secondary clearance on my bench grinder and that did the trick. This might be why yours chipped, because mine started chipping on the bottom edge. You don't need a special grinding stone for grinding carbide. A regular stone will work for doing this. It's just clearance and carbide, at least any of the carbide I've done this with, it's so hard that a regular stone won't cut it.

The insert cutter pounds and bangs because of its' single cutting edge and it's not a nice sharp edge like a HSS cutter. Carbide beats the metal off where HSS cuts it and you have several cutting edges on a typical HSS cutter. If I was doing something where I thought it was more critical, I think roughing with the carbide insert cutter and finishing with HSS would be a good way to go. This would minimize the amount of sharpening for the HSS cutter while being able to simply change inserts for roughing (if necessary). For this grinder rest, I really don't think the dovetail is all that critical. And, the only way to get a really good fit would be to hand scrape it in anyways. 

Ted


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## Technical Ted

Another update: Got most of the parts and pieces made now. Dials made and graduations added, locking bolts and nuts made, all but locating and drilling holes for the handles for the locking nuts. Stopping now to draw up the angle base to accommodate the two mag indicator bases. I'll be buying two more so I can have the simple rest on one side of the grinder and the advanced rest on the other.

After making the base angle, I'll assemble and locate the positions for the locking handles on the locking nuts and finish them off. That will just leave some putter work and the rest will be finished. Next, I'll draw up and make the fences.

I put the dials in the 3 jaw chuck I use with my dividing head and I didn't like the run out I was seeing and the collet quick indexers I have didn't have the divisions I needed so I made up a dog and mandrel and used the indexing head with centers. I put the dial on the dead center end so I knew that no matter what it would run dead concentrically. Sharpened a round tool bit with a nice sharp edge and dragged away. They turned out well.

Ted


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## Technical Ted

Got the base angle mounting plate done today. Had a few ideas I wanted to try out. For my setup, when using two mag bases, the angle plate on the simple rest is too long and big. Using mag bases, which are so easily moved and positioned, eliminates the need for such a long base. So, I shortened it up and made it compact. I put a very short slot in it, because, again, it's very easy to just unlock the mag bases and move the whole assembly. I thought that staggering the bases, one on the inside and one on the outside would increases rigidity, but this is likely a little over kill. But, if things are in the way, I can have both mag bases either on the same side or staggered so I thought this would increases flexibility in my setups. 

Now, to position, drill and assemble the handles for the locking nuts.

Ted


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## Technical Ted

The rest is finished. I decided to use some Loctite maximum strength retaining compound I had rather than epoxy for the handles, just because it was easier. I don't think it will take much to hold them in there. I can always use something else if I have trouble down the line. I'm happy with the way it turned out. I think it will be a joy to use and much easier/quicker to setup than the simple rest. 

Now, I have to draw up the fences & stops and make them, but that will have to wait a bit while I tackle a couple other small projects. For one, the hardened blade guides on my Boice Crane vertical bandsaw have run out of travel from wear and the blade isn't tracking correctly. I'll either grind these up out of some 1/2" HSS tool blanks or make some out of some tool steel and harden them. We'll see what I can find laying around.

Ted


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## T. J.

Nice work Ted!  I'm anxious to hear your experiences with using this one vs. the simple rest.  I've got the Tool & Cutter Sharpening book and I'm contemplating getting the Milling book just for the plans to this rest.


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## HBilly1022

Excellent work and thanks for posting the final product. 

I haven't been able to do any work on mine for the last 5 days. Been busy plowing, pushing and moving snow. Only went into the shop to get chains for the skidsteer. It's cold in there without the wood stove going.


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## Technical Ted

T. J. said:


> I'm anxious to hear your experiences with using this one vs. the simple rest.  I've got the Tool & Cutter Sharpening book and I'm contemplating getting the Milling book just for the plans to this rest.



Haven't even used it yet, but I can tell just by moving things around that it is going to be easier and quicker to setup. It also has more weight because it's made with more steel than the simple rest and I'm sure this will help keep things solid (not that the simple rest is shaky, but this one is just more robust). It's more work than the simple rest, but I'm always looking for projects for my shop so that wasn't an issue for me. One reason I made the simple one first is because I had just made a radius/ball turner and was looking for something to make a ball for!  

I guess if I was going to make a blanket recommendation I would say this: If you're only going to use it for occasional work then I would go with the simple rest. But, if you're going to push it to the limit, sharpen milling cutters, end mills, lathe tools, basically only being limited by your imagination, and plan on doing a lot of it, I would go with the advanced rest. 

And, both books are very inexpensive! 

YMMV,
Ted


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## Technical Ted

Rest is finished! Made up the fence and clamp and also made some rectangular aluminum washers to go between the mag bases and the angle base. Being directly fastened to the angle base, the mag bases were losing some of their holding power. With the aluminum spacers, they are much stronger.

Next, to try it out. I also picked up a couple of new cup grinding wheels that I might make arbors for and try out as well. So much fun to have, such little time! 

Ted


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## HBilly1022

Thanks for the tip about the mag bases.


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## kvt

keep us informed.   I may get started on mine soon.


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## Technical Ted

HBilly1022 said:


> Thanks for the tip about the mag bases.



I can't take credit for the idea. I saw/read someplace in one of Harold's pages where he used what looked like a couple of pieces of copper strip for the same reason. After seeing this I did some testing and sure enough, I was loosing holding power. I had some 1/8" aluminum plate so I made up some washers. Thought this would be easier than dealing with some small strip pieces.

Ted


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## DHJ

I used .250 aluminum angle for the base, seems plenty strong. Doug


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## Technical Ted

DHJ said:


> I used .250 aluminum angle for the base, seems plenty strong. Doug



That's a great idea!

Ted


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## stioc

So I have a couple of questions about this one:

1. Harold mentions using 50mm (2") square stock for the dovetail body, 32mm (1.25") square stock for certain things and 8mm or 6mm stock for others etc. Did you stick to the inch equivalent of the suggested sizes? I have a 3/16" plate (5mm) that I could use for the table.

2. Inexpensive A36 hot roll steel would suffice for this build?

3. A 2" square bar (A36) is about $35 for one foot length. Is one foot enough for this project? same question about the other stock i.e. if I were to order it how much do I need? The shipping that costs as much as the stock -at least online.

4. What size dovetail cutters should I purchase. I don't have any, I figured I'd buy them when needed but now that I'm buying them and I don't think the size matters all that much as long as they match what's a good general size to purchase?


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## Technical Ted

stioc said:


> So I have a couple of questions about this one:
> 
> 1. Harold mentions using 50mm (2") square stock for the dovetail body, 32mm (1.25") square stock for certain things and 8mm or 6mm stock for others etc. Did you stick to the inch equivalent of the suggested sizes? I have a 3/16" plate (5mm) that I could use for the table.
> 
> 2. Inexpensive A36 hot roll steel would suffice for this build?
> 
> 3. A 2" square bar (A36) is about $35 for one foot length. Is one foot enough for this project? same question about the other stock i.e. if I were to order it how much do I need? The shipping that costs as much as the stock -at least online.
> 
> 4. What size dovetail cutters should I purchase. I don't have any, I figured I'd buy them when needed but now that I'm buying them and I don't think the size matters all that much as long as they match what's a good general size to purchase?



1- See my earlier posts on this thread. I converted everything to inch dimensions as I drew it up in Fusion 360.

2- A36 is mostly what I used.

3- I used the material I had on hand. To determine how much stock you need, make a list of the material for each part and also include whatever stock you might need to hold the part while making it. Remember, you need to have "too much" to have enough! I always try to come up with a plan on how I will make everything before I even begin to make chips. How to hold things, how each part will progress through each process, make or buy the required tooling, what parts I should make first for proper fitting, etc. etc.. Always have a plan. You can even write your plan down while you make the parts in your mind before hand. This is what I have done for years. Also, having some material left over at the end of a project is a good thing. 

4- I used whatever I had on hand. I would suggest ordering the largest cutter that will fit in the work piece. You should rough out the bulk of the material with an end mill and just use the dovetail cutter for the angled part. Make sure the cutter will fit.

A good source for material is https://hobbymetalkits.com/ I've used them several times. They have very reasonable shipping charges. They use Priority Mail and IIRC charge around $10. I don't know if they have all the material you need, but they might. You can also email them for stock they don't have listed and they will send you a quote. 

You'll either have to work in metric or do what I did and draw things up as you go converting to inch dimensions. Doing so in Fusion 360 or other CAD will help you later on as you actually start making chips. Remember, you learn by doing...   

Ted


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## DHJ

stioc said:


> So I have a couple of questions about this one:
> 
> 1. Harold mentions using 50mm (2") square stock for the dovetail body, 32mm (1.25") square stock for certain things and 8mm or 6mm stock for others etc. Did you stick to the inch equivalent of the suggested sizes? I have a 3/16" plate (5mm) that I could use for the table.
> 
> 2. Inexpensive A36 hot roll steel would suffice for this build?
> 
> 3. A 2" square bar (A36) is about $35 for one foot length. Is one foot enough for this project? same question about the other stock i.e. if I were to order it how much do I need? The shipping that costs as much as the stock -at least online.
> 
> 4. What size dovetail cutters should I purchase. I don't have any, I figured I'd buy them when needed but now that I'm buying them and I don't think the size matters all that much as long as they match what's a good general size to purchase?


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## DHJ

I had a stick of cold roll 4”x 1/4” that I used for tables and flat work, nice square corners and no mill scale,  very little clean up.


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## stioc

Thanks for the suggestions!

A stick of 4x1/4" for flat work sounds good. I need 2" square stock in steel for the dovetails but the hobbymetalkits.com site only has up to 1". I'm guessing (book's at home) the dove tails are approx 3" long? and there are two sets of them. If so I need at least 12" of the 2" stock material.

As for the dovetail cutter, is 60deg more common than 45deg? I was thinking a smaller dovetail would be easier for this job? Something like this 1/2" one or may be a 3/4"? 








						1 Pc 1/2" X 60 Degree Premium HSS Dovetail Cutter Milling High Speed Steel 647829665661 | eBay
					

60° included angle, right hand cutting. Made of precision ground, high grade tool steel. Our Part # ALL-19510.



					www.ebay.com


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## ddickey

You could always make your own dovetail cutter w/a TPG insert.


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## stioc

ddickey said:


> You could always make your own dovetail cutter w/a TPG insert.



Scope creep! lol May be as a future project. For now just trying to determine the size and angle to own that would come in handy later too but they're inexpensive enough that it's really no big deal.


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## Technical Ted

stioc said:


> Thanks for the suggestions!
> 
> A stick of 4x1/4" for flat work sounds good. I need 2" square stock in steel for the dovetails but the hobbymetalkits.com site only has up to 1". I'm guessing (book's at home) the dove tails are approx 3" long? and there are two sets of them. If so I need at least 12" of the 2" stock material.
> 
> As for the dovetail cutter, is 60deg more common than 45deg? I was thinking a smaller dovetail would be easier for this job? Something like this 1/2" one or may be a 3/4"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 Pc 1/2" X 60 Degree Premium HSS Dovetail Cutter Milling High Speed Steel 647829665661 | eBay
> 
> 
> 60° included angle, right hand cutting. Made of precision ground, high grade tool steel. Our Part # ALL-19510.
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com



Check eBay for the square bar. Sometimes it's cheaper than other places. Shop around and compare (make sure you include shipping/tax in your searching for comparison). 

If you check the drawings, his design uses a 60 degree cutter. In my experience, 60 degree dovetails are more common than 45. As I suggested earlier, if I had to buy a cutter I would buy the largest that would fit depending on how I planned on cutting the dovetail. This is because this is a fairly small dovetail and any others I might cut down the road most likely would be larger, not smaller, but who knows??? It's a guess. 

I do like All Industrial very much and buy from them frequently when they have some of their awesome sales... Keep in mind what I said about USA vs import cutters when you select your cutting speed on your mill. If it were me, I would search for a USA made cutter on eBay and compare prices. If prices were close, I'd definitely go with the USA cutter hands down. Imports using the term "premium" is really meaningless IMO. 

Ted


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## stioc

Yes, All Industrail is one of my fav. I should really buy from their store locally to save on shipping but I usually order from them on ebay anyway. Size wise I'm just worried if 1" cutter might be too wide for the 2" stock I'll be making dovetails out of. In one of your posts you mentioned the one you used was a bit too big for the female dovetails. Not sure what size your dovetail cutter is but it looks may be 1.25" or so?

I just had a ridiculous thought...I have a small x/y vise I rarely use https://www.amazon.com/Wilton-11694-4-Inch-Cross-Slide/dp/B009E0E9YK , why not build a small table that clamps in it that tilts and I have basically the same thing with minimal effort?


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## Technical Ted

stioc said:


> Size wise I'm just worried if 1" cutter might be too wide for the 2" stock I'll be making dovetails out of. In one of your posts you mentioned the one you used was a bit too big for the female dovetails. Not sure what size your dovetail cutter is but it looks may be 1.25" or so?



Here's one way to help you visualize what size you want. Draw, to scale in inch units, the finished dovetail. Plan on roughing out the bulk in the middle with an end mill. Then, since you drew it out to scale, you can lay your scale on the paper and see what size cutter you want. You might be able to take it all in one cut , but I would suggest taking multiple cuts so not to load up the cutter as much. I would also conventional cut, not climb mill unless your mill is really tight.

Also, if both dovetails are the same size, plan on cutting them both out of one longer piece and then sawing in two and facing to required length. This will save you setup and measuring time.

Everyone has different experiences, equipment, and comfort levels... you are the only one who knows yours. Make a plan, but be ready to change it if things don't work out as planned. This is how you gain experience and improve. There's no pill that you can take that will do this for you.

Sit down, relax, and develop a plan. Visualization is a very powerful tool!

Good luck and have fun!
Ted


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## ttabbal

Any shot I could get a copy of the CAD model? I'm still learning how to model things and it might be interesting to compare to the book to give me more ideas.


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## Technical Ted

ttabbal said:


> Any shot I could get a copy of the CAD model? I'm still learning how to model things and it might be interesting to compare to the book to give me more ideas.



Sorry, you're not the first to ask. I drew them up just for my personal use. Please see post #6: https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/harold-hall-simple-grinding-rest.62808/#post-517547

If it was my design I would happily share with others...

Ted


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## ttabbal

Missed that one, no problem, I can see why you would decide that way. Thanks for the great thread on it. I'm sure it will be useful as I work on it.


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