# Too big of a lathe?



## 8mpg (Sep 22, 2018)

I have been looking for lathes for a while and ran across a Summit 16x60 w/ 4" through hole. Its larger than I planned on buying but its a good price. Hoping to look at it this week but Im wondering if it is too big. Its a 7.5hp motor and weighs 6000lbs. Im a beginner and this is going to be my first lathe. Is going with something this large a bad idea?


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## Old Mud (Sep 22, 2018)

Not as far as i'm concerned. As long as you have room for it ,It will save you many dollars in not going small and working yourself up to a bigger one. Now if you get this one you can move along getting the tooling you need before you discover you need a Mill. 

  JMHO.


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## P. Waller (Sep 22, 2018)

I have no idea what a Summit lathe is but 4" through the spindle is excellent.
I see that you are in Texas so this is often called an oil field lathe used for large down hole parts thus the large spindle bore.


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## 8mpg (Sep 22, 2018)

Im going to have to look into how I'll run the thing.  A VFD that big is questionable. My mill came with a home made rotary phase converter...but I dont know what it's limitations are.


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## ThinWoodsman (Sep 22, 2018)

I had to pass on a too-big lathe a few months back. A Meuser M-00-L of similar dimensions. It would have taken up half the shop! But you could probably mount a Wilton vise to the compound, it was solid. That's forever going to be the one that got away.

Go with a Rotary Phase Converter. You've probably got a back gear in the thing which could use the torque. I picked up an American Rotary ATX 7.5 to power a 3-phase subpanel (only two machines so far), but you'd probably need something bigger, like a 15. Bigger, unfortunately, also means much more expensive.


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## pstemari (Sep 22, 2018)

You'll need a shop crane or some such to change chucks. You'll also probably get really fast at centering work in a 4 jaw because changing chucks is such a PITA. Also, turning smaller diameter aluminum may be problematic, since the top speed will probably be fairly limited.

On the plus side, you'll be able to get truckloads of tooling from eBay dirt cheap, since most hobbyists can't use the typical 1" or 1.25" tooling for that sort of a lathe, and you can pick up a Taig to handle the small stuff.

Bonus points if you mount the Taig on the toolpost . 



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## Bi11Hudson (Sep 22, 2018)

An answer to the second question, first. A "static" converter is nothing more than an unloaded motor and a handful of capacitors. Look at the "nameplate" on the static converter and the nameplate on the lathe. If the converter is a commercial built unit, it *should* be around 5 HP or larger. I *personally* have never seen or heard of one smaller. But then, I'm old school and everything I have is single phase. I"m not the word's greatest authority, despite what my friends say. If it was home brew, the motor size would be a give-away. As long as the HP of the converter is greater than the HP of the machine, it will start, and run, the machine. It *is possible* to start a larger motor than the converter, but takes some "finagling" to do it. No time or room here to go into the theory of that.

Now, in answer to your first question, there is *never too large* a lathe. Period... ... It comes down to the strength of the supporting structure, and space. If ya got room, and a strong enough floor, go for it. This is where I must wax on about my personal shop. I have a Craftsman 12X36, an older version. Not the best, or largest, or most appropriate for some jobs. But, with a wood framed, ex-residential structure, the heaviest I could stand. Then too, there is the money aspect. I don't have a lot, but enough for what I have. Same goes for space.

As a model builder, much of my work is very small. As in, the thing on my mind right now involves a size 0 screw. That's 0-80, the major diameter being 0.060 inch. I had, as a quick fix, bored it and tapped 2-56. I don't like the finished result and will make a plastic insert for the 2-56 and bore and re-tap for a smaller screw. The problems involved in this are multiple and I won't go into them. But, the work will be done on my 12X36 lathe.

The whole point being; with some thought and appropriate sized tooling, you can do smaller work. But, with larger work, usually the only answer is a larger machine. My 0-80 screws are much too small for my 12X36. But, if I got into a project involving truck wheels, I would need to find a larger machine. And I do have a couple things I would like to persue like that. But they're on the far back burner for the time being. The size I have need of is the sort used in a steel mill for machining rolls and shafts. Like I'm ever going to get access to one that large... ...

Bill Hudson​


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## Norseman C.B. (Sep 22, 2018)

TOO BIG !!!???................No such animal.........................


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## e189552 (Sep 22, 2018)

I had one of those back in the ‘80’s. 
Actually lived in Saginaw, just down the road from you.
Great machine, the only issue I had was the chuck jaws springing when chucking a smaller diameter.
I had mine powered from a 20 hp rotary slave motor.


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## benmychree (Sep 22, 2018)

There are no lathes that are too big, only workpieces that are too small.


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## RJSakowski (Sep 22, 2018)

I am going to buck the trend here and say to look for a smaller lathe.  Unless you are looking at making earth movers, you in all likelihood will never need the 16 x 60.  While much can be said for the rigidity of a large machine, you will most likely inherit a host of issues with an older machine.  It is unlikely that an industrial machine going for a "good price" is going to be in anytrhing close to pristine condition.

On the other hand, starting out with a smaller machine, you can take on a large variety of projects, learning the art as you go. As you build up your skill level and you feel a need to for more capacity, you can look for that larger machine. A small lathe needn't be very expensive and if you take care of it, you should be able to recover the better part of your investment.

There is also an issue of personal safety.  A large machine with hefty motor can be a dangerous item.  If you misstep, it will just as easily rip your arm off as it make that facing cut.A smaller lathe running a fractional horsepower motor can be dangerous too but you are not likely to get wound up in the chuck.


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## Superburban (Sep 22, 2018)

Man, I would go crazy over a 4" through hole. 7&1/2 HP, is not too big for a VFW. And the 16X60, is not a bad size. The 6000lbs, may be a bit big for getting in your shop. 

Look at what comes along with the deal. 3 jaw, 4 jaw, steady & traveling rest, taper attachments, can be expensive to get down the line.

Looking at Summits web site, it looks like thread cutting is limited.

RJ kinda beat me too it, but a deal on the surface, may not be a deal at all.  One broken gear, may cost more then you are paying for the lathe, to replace. Also, you need to guestimate what size stuff you will be doing. I can't imagine it being that great for stuff 3/4" or 1/2" and smaller. 

Don't let the coolness factor lure you into buying a machine that is not practical for your needs.

But, you could always buy it, and ship it to me, I promise, I would drool over it for several months, if not more.


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## Meta Key (Sep 23, 2018)

8mpg said:


> .....Hoping to look at it this week but Im wondering if it is too big. Its a 7.5hp motor and weighs 6000lbs. Im a beginner and this is going to be my first lathe. Is going with something this large a bad idea?



A quick call to your electric utility might be in order. Some of them place a limit on how large an inductive (reactive) load you can place on your _residential_ service. If they do have a limit it's likely to be 7.5 HP.  That could limit your options.

Even if the power utility does not have such a restriction your internal wiring may not want to support starting up a 7-1/2 HP motor. At 240 VAC the running current is in the 25 amp neighborhood. More to start it up..

MetaKey


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## Nogoingback (Sep 23, 2018)

What do you plan on doing with your lathe?    Do you really need a 4" spindle bore at this point?  There's no free lunch here because 
everything having to do with a lathe that big is going to be expensive.  I would take it as a given that the machine will need at least
some work (and parts), and most people have to pay someone else to move a machine that big.   Tooling for a machine that size will be expensive
as well.  If you haven't owned a lathe before it may not be clear that the purchase price is just the down payment.

I agree with RJ.  As attractive as the capability of a machine like that is, it's not a starter lathe for someone who's never owned one
before.  Unless your REALLY need a machine that size right away, I'd take a pass and look for something smaller.


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## Chipper5783 (Sep 23, 2018)

My advise is to go for it, subject to comments above about whether you have the space, ability to move it and if it is a total wreck.  I have a 15x60 lathe, it is less than half the weight - but strictly speaking nearly the same work envelop as what you are looking at.

My work is just regular miscellaneous messing around.  I also have a very sweet 11x24 lathe.  The larger lathe was my first machine, bought 35 years ago, the 11" machine arrived about 5 years ago.  Both machines are well dressed and set up.  I use both machines, but the larger one gets used quite a bit more than the smaller one.  I'm still hoping to get a bigger lathe (which I totally do not need, but that is irrelevant 

16x60 is a very useful size.  Stay in this game for very long and you will probably have at least two of all the main shop machines.

Let us know how it works out.  David


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## projectnut (Sep 23, 2018)

I would be in the same camp as RJ and Nogoingback.  A 16x60 is a production lathe that in all likelihood will be far larger than you'll ever need.  Tooling, including tool posts, cutting tools, boring bars collet closers, collets, etc., etc., and even chucks are going to be more expensive.  The 16" chuck isn't the best choice for small stock, and it could be difficult to find a smaller one that will fit the machine.  In addition a 16" chuck weighs 100 to 150 lbs. so it isn't something you'll be changing out by hand or on a regular basis. 

It will require a rigger with the proper equipment to move it and will not be cheap to power up.  A new quality 10 hp rotary phase converter will cost in the neighborhood of $800.00 to $1000.00 to purchase and another couple hundred to install if done properly.   The bigger the machine the more expensive it will be to maintain.  These machines were meant for large shops that had the resources and income to run and maintain them, not the hobbyist with a more limited budget. 

I have a 13x56 lathe and a 10x60 lathe in my shop.  In over 25 years I have yet to need anything larger.  A friend of mine runs a commercial machine shop and just last summer sold a LeBlond 16x54 lathe because he didn't need the capacity and had a couple other 13" machines that could handle any work he is willing to accept.  Keep in mind you'll probably need a crane or lifting device for any work pieces that will require a 16" machine.

I would think a 13x60 machine would be more than adequate for 99% of what any hobbyist will ever need.  Anything larger would be overkill at best and a waste of space and resources at the worst.  It might be nice to impress your friends with, but it can quickly drain your pocket book and make a hobby far more expensive.  To me the object of the hobby is to spend the money to be able to create something useful not to support the machines.


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## Al 1 (Sep 23, 2018)

8mpg,   I am with RJ on this one. He brings up a lot of good points.    I am a hobby guy and find that my heavy 10 is a good size for me. Parts are also available at a reasonable price. 6000 lb. is a lot of weight to be moving around unless you have the equipment.  Any large items that I need can be turned in a friends machine  shop.   Al.


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## mickri (Sep 23, 2018)

Bad Idea.  I am a believer in having the right tool for the job.  I disagree that bigger is always better.  Do you use a 10lb sledge hammer to pound a small nail into a picture frame?  Never. You need to step back and figure out what you want or need to do with your lathe.  Then look for a lathe that will accomplish what you want to do.  Not too big.  Not too small.  I am brand new to machining and went through the same search for a lathe two years ago.  My main criteria was to be able to turn the axles on my 1966 MG Midget and maybe some barrel work.  Needed around 30" between centers to do that.  A 1 1/2" spindle bore would have been nice.  But to get that size spindle bore required a step up to the next size lathe.  I settled on a 12x36  lathe.  It is large enough to do what I want to do and small enough to do the little things a hobby machinist typically does.  Not too big and not too small.
A 16x60 SB lathe recently came up for auction near me.  It came with multiple chucks, change gears and assorted other tooling.  It sold for $105.  A $105.  Nobody wanted it.  There were only a couple of people who bid on it.  I thought about bidding on it.  Then sanity prevailed.  What would I ever use it for.  How much would it cost to move it.  What about the cost to have the proper electricity brought into my garage.  What about the cost of tooling?  How heavy were the chucks and could I even lift one?  And on and on it went.
So what do you want to do with your lathe?  The answer to that question is the key factor on what size lathe you should look for.


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## tq60 (Sep 23, 2018)

What space do you have?

We stepped up for 40 years...buy something and watch for next upgrade.

Atlas, craftsman and the like over the years.

Had a SB 1917 16x54 that worked well but took lots of space and found a Lodge and Shipley 16x54 for good price so had 2 too big lathes.

Also had small Logan.

Found a 14.5 SB which is perfect size and sold the older SB.

The lathe you are interested in will be a bad idea PERIOD.

It will not allow mistakes meaning it stops for nobody unless told to.

The rpm is too slow for small stuff and the Chuck likely will not grab anything small.

For a no-experience person that is the worst machine.

Look for belted unit as they are forgiving.

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## pacifica (Sep 23, 2018)

I considered bigger(over 2500 lbs) and realized all the costs go up substantially. Moving it in, having enough space, getting power to it, even a CXA toolpost with holders is more than an AXA. Can easily add  up to thousands. It's probably low rpm. Consider carefully.


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## ezduzit (Sep 23, 2018)

I have a 12" x 35" lathe but had a job last week for which I could have used that 16" machine. Just barely was able to handle it with my machine. If you have space for it that is a size just about every machinist would love to have. You may find that you'll also want to add a small machine to this at some future date. But, if this turns out to be a good machine at a good price, I'd buy it, especially if it is not just a bare machine with no tooling.


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## Chipper5783 (Sep 23, 2018)

Since you already know the price, the condition, tooling attachments and your own set up (space, power and moving) will determine whether it is a good deal or not.  I would not be too concerned about this machine being inherently more dangerous for a beginner.  Any lathe can do a person some very serious damage.  A 12" swing, 1 HP, belt drive machine can cause sever injury.  That 16" 7.5 HP gear jammer is to be treated with respect - like every other shop tool.  The Summit machine probably has a foot brake (IMO a desirable, but not critical safety feature), while many of the smaller machines do not.

It is true that larger machines have more expensive accessories, hence the reason that how well dressed it is become important in the decision.  The speed range noted above is also a good point.  It appears that machine is about 25-1800 rpm.  Of course there are applications where a higher speed is desirable.  I'm generally working fairly small components, I rarely go over 1000 rpm on my 15" machine or 1250 rpm on my 11" machine (they are capable of 2000 and 2500 respectively).  However, I find the low speed much more useful - my 15" only goes down to 45 rpm and a lower speed would be nice (the 11" machine will go down to 30 rpm, which is great).

Let us know how you make out.  David


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 23, 2018)

I'm a retired shop owner, now hobbyist. That's a fairly large lathe even by the standards of my old shop. We did have larger, but it only saw use when absolutely necessary. My machinists (and I) would always choose the smallest lathe that could do the job. They are just easier to use, the tooling is lighter and the higher spindle height makes for less discomfort while running. I now have a South Bend Heavy 10L, it's just about perfect for the kind of hobby/repair work that I do. I would like to have a larger lathe with a little more capacity  (14 or 15 in.) and hp, but the SB would still see 90% of the work. 

Since this will be your first lathe, I'd hold out for something smaller. Your back and budget will both thank you.


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## TerryH (Sep 23, 2018)

I'd imagine I am the least experienced person in this thread so take this for what it's worth. When trying to decide what to get when I wanted to move up in size from my mini lathe I was in a terrible internal debate. I took a trip to Grizzly in Springfield, Mo to just get a feel for size as I've never even been around a larger lathe. After that trip I felt like the best course of action for me was to buy a used 10x22 that was available in my area. I'm super happy with it but will likely move up in size at some point. I simply didn't feel comfortable with a bigger lathe with my lack of skill/experience. In my case the used 10x22 was a good enough deal that I can probably sell it and still recoup most of the cost. Personally, I could not imagine a 6000 lb. 16x60 as my first lathe.


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## seasicksteve (Sep 23, 2018)

I think it depends on the intended use. I like Colchesters I had a 15" and sold it and bought a 13", the 13 is more suited to the tasks  I do. The bigger lathes are great if you are working on bigger stuff but they can be cumbersome when working on small dia work. If you are comfortable with that big of a lathe and it meets your needs then go for it


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## 8mpg (Sep 23, 2018)

Thank you everyone for the input. Im really thinking the lathe is going to be too big. I had settled on a Grizzly/PM machine previously. Originally was going 10x22 arena but I think the 12x36 is probably the best bet for me. It will be new, delivered to my house and more appropriately sized for my setup. I honestly dont know what all I'll end up making but I think it will be big enough. I also wont have to worry about a rotary phase converter that big (have a DIY 5hp one already). 

Thanks again for the input.


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## Shootymacshootface (Sep 24, 2018)

8mpg said:


> Thank you everyone for the input. Im really thinking the lathe is going to be too big. I had settled on a Grizzly/PM machine previously. Originally was going 10x22 arena but I think the 12x36 is probably the best bet for me. It will be new, delivered to my house and more appropriately sized for my setup. I honestly dont know what all I'll end up making but I think it will be big enough. I also wont have to worry about a rotary phase converter that big (have a DIY 5hp one already).
> 
> Thanks again for the input.



As you get better abd better with your lathe, you will use it more than you ever imagined. Just about everything ever manufactured is based on round things.


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## Meta Key (Sep 24, 2018)

8mpg said:


> Thank you everyone for the input. Im really thinking the lathe is going to be too big. I had settled on a Grizzly/PM machine previously. Originally was going 10x22 arena but I think the 12x36 is probably the best bet for me. It will be new, delivered to my house and more appropriately sized for my setup. I honestly dont know what all I'll end up making but I think it will be big enough. I also wont have to worry about a rotary phase converter that big (have a DIY 5hp one already).
> Thanks again for the input.



Hey, that's GREAT NEWS!  Now I can go buy that big, monster lathe!!!



No, sorry.  Just teasing you.  You're going to love your 12 x 36.  I have one and I don't think I'll _ever_ need a larger lathe.  But, my first lathe was 10 x 22 and my second lathe was 12.5 x 20 so this 12 x 36 feels kinda huge.  Well, long anyway...

My unsolicited opinion is that you have made a good decision and that you'll be happy with it.  I look forward to hearing about how you progress with your new machine.


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## Superburban (Sep 24, 2018)

Mind telling us what they wanted for the monster lathe? I would love the 4" hole, but not all the weight.


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## nnam (Sep 24, 2018)

With all said above, I would like to add a few things when I consider big lathe.
For beginner lathe, don't buy into that one, since I very quickly grew out of that, and it's a waste of time and money, unless it's really cheap.
For a big lathe, number one rule is can I get it into its place, from where it's bought to where it's going to be sitting.
Next, will I have room for it?  Then cost of tooling, etc.
Is it a high quality used lathe with lots of tools?  

If I have a huge garage, big trailer and equipment to move it up and down, and the lathe is so cheap because it's so big no one want wants it, I would give it a shot (if it's still a good lathe).

That said, a lathe at 16x60 w/ 4" is not that big.  Mine is 15" swing.  This is just a tad bigger.  No big deal here.  However, it's much longer.  So I think it's down to do you have room for it, and can you take it home safely.


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## 8mpg (Sep 24, 2018)

Superburban said:


> Mind telling us what they wanted for the monster lathe? I would love the 4" hole, but not all the weight.


Honestly not 100% sure what all I'll use it for. I'm just getting into machining and wanting to buy equipment to get started. Its $1500 for a good sized lathe vs $4k for a Grizzly/PM thats smaller. I can make it fit into my machine work area.


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## tq60 (Sep 24, 2018)

We only use our LS16 once in awhile, made some tools for working on Atmos clocks and mowing off a 3/8 depth of cut (3/4 single total reduction) was lots of fun.

Last use was trimming ends of tubes for wind chimes as they fit inside the spindle. 

Most work however is on the SB.

The LS16 takes up a space of 10 x 4 feet on the floor for the machine alone where that grizzly will fit in a corner.

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## projectnut (Sep 25, 2018)

8mpg said:


> Honestly not 100% sure what all I'll use it for. I'm just getting into machining and wanting to buy equipment to get started. Its $1500 for a good sized lathe vs $4k for a Grizzly/PM thats smaller. I can make it fit into my machine work area.



You're not exactly comparing apples to apples.  A new Summit 16X40 lathe costs $19,990.00 while a new, smaller, Grizzly or PM is in the $4000,.00 range. Comparing new to new the Summit is 5 times the money of those you're comparing it to. 

Here is an overview of the machine:
https://www.summitmt.com/products/16-inch-metal-lathes/

Unless the machine specs have changed over the years the through hole is 3 1/2" and the motor hp is 10.  It uses a D1-8 chuck mounting system which is not all that common, and relatively expensive.  New chucks run in the $450.00 to $800.00 range.  Another feature is the tailstock size.  It has an MT5 taper.  That means either the tooling you will need has to have the MT5 taper, or you'll need to buy an adaptor so you can use less expensive smaller size tooling.

Also as previously mentioned be aware that the machine itself is a little over 8' long and almost 3 1/2' wide.  It will also require another couple feet behind the machine for cleaning and maintenance, and several feet of space on the headstock end and  operators side to load parts and change tooling.  The current model 16X40 is a gap bed machine.  Meaning there is a  26" swing over a 15" section with the remaining area over the bed having an 18" swing.

Here are some more specs on the current Summit 16x40 machine:
https://www.summitmt.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Summit_16-32018.pdf

If you're insistent on buying this machine at least see it run and take someone along that can assess the condition of the machine.  The seller is asking about 10% of the price of a new machine.  It could be that he just wants to get rid of it, or it could mean the machine has problems that are so expensive to fix he wants to dump it and buy something less costly to tool, run , and maintain.


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## Chipper5783 (Sep 25, 2018)

Projectnut has a good point, so long as the machine is not a wreck and comes with the basic attachments and a little tooling (and space, weight & power are not significant constraints in your situation) - for a similar installed cost to the Gizz machine you will have a vastly more competent machine.  The subsequent resale value will also be much better.  I have bought 5 ugly looking machines, the main issue with every one was that the shop was not going to invest in cleaning them.  All had some sort of minor issue.  Everyone is now in good condition and would sell for about 2x what I paid - not that it would be profitable (I'd make about $0.05 per hour), but I learned quite a bit about each machine and I am confident in the condition.

At least have a look at it (certainly take along a knowledgeable person to give their opinion).  Of course, it could be a wreck, but HD industrial machines are very tough.  It takes some dedicated effort to really thrash a well built machine.  Often if there is a major problem it will be obvious.  At $1500 plus moving & set up - your exposure is pretty minor (in this hobby, that is cheap - compared to many other hobbies, it is still cheap).


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## hanermo2 (Sep 25, 2018)

I disagree with the common thoughts posted before.
It is very easy and cheap to put a smaller 3 phase motor of 2-4 kW, or even vastly better, a brushless AC servo (like mine), on the 16x lathe.

This will run on any current available, subject to total power, just pick the right drive.
A VFD will give good-to-great torque and rpm ranges, from about 20 HZ - 6 Hz, or 300%.
And upto 100% extra rpm, or say 50-1000-2000 rpm, easily, from a 2 kW VFD, +/-.

There is zero real *need* to have a big motor on a biggish 16" lathe.
A 2 kW real industrial motor == 100-150€, new.
VFD about the same, add some belts, pulleys, steel framing.


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## Nogoingback (Sep 25, 2018)

8mpg said:


> Honestly not 100% sure what all I'll use it for. I'm just getting into machining and wanting to buy equipment to get started. Its $1500 for a good sized lathe vs $4k for a Grizzly/PM thats smaller. I can make it fit into my machine work area.




IF you're comparing a new Griz/PM against a used machine, that's not a fair comparison.  There are plenty of used machines out there
that cost less than $4000.00 that you could look at.  It's not uncommon to to see large lathes for sale fairly cheaply: they're hard to sell.
Commercial shops are all moving to CNC, and they're too big for most hobbyists.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the sense that you're in a hurry here.  Wanting to get a machine and get started is understandable,
but perhaps the best thing to do is take a deep breath and slow things down a bit.  The fact that you view two completely different
types of machines as alternatives to one another suggests that you don't have a clear idea of what you want or need.  It's also
unclear what your budget is.  I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, but just suggesting you take your time to find the right machine.
To do that, you FIRST need to decide what that means and how much you want to spend.  Once you figure out what you want, then
go looking for it.


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## projectnut (Sep 25, 2018)

hanermo2 said:


> I disagree with the common thoughts posted before.
> It is very easy and cheap to put a smaller 3 phase motor of 2-4 kW, or even vastly better, a brushless AC servo (like mine), on the 16x lathe.
> 
> This will run on any current available, subject to total power, just pick the right drive.
> ...



If you have any intentions of using the machine anywhere near it's design capacity a smaller  motor isn't going to get you there.  The chuck alone weighs between 100 lbs. and 150 lbs.  The machine was designed for a maximum spindle speed of 2,000 rpm.  While you may be able to increase the motor speed the headstock bearings are still only rated for the same 2,000 rpm, and a chuck for that size machine will also be balanced for the same maximum rpm.  

Keep in mind the machine has a capacity of chucking up a 1,000 lb. work piece.  I would think 2,000 rpm would be faster than I would want that much weight spinning, add another 1,000 rpm and its more like a death wish.  This is a medium to large capacity machine designed to turn large parts within the required speed envelope.  Changing out a motor and all the associated hardware only adds cost and doesn't do anything to increase its usability.

Rather than go through the time and expense to make modifications that will certainly lessen it's value should you decide in the future to sell it, find a machine that will fit your needs.  Then you will be able to spend the money on tooling and stock.  Personally before I would make extensive modifications to this machine I would consider spending the additional money to get either the Grizzly or the PM.  Either of these machines will come with the basic tooling needed to run it, and won't require that the first few weeks of ownership be spent making modifications.


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## tq60 (Sep 25, 2018)

If gear head it takes a bit of power just to turn the gears in the oil too

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## pacifica (Sep 25, 2018)

projectnut said:


> If you have any intentions of using the machine anywhere near it's design capacity a smaller  motor isn't going to get you there.  The chuck alone weighs between 100 lbs. and 150 lbs.  The machine was designed for a maximum spindle speed of 2,000 rpm.  While you may be able to increase the motor speed the headstock bearings are still only rated for the same 2,000 rpm, and a chuck for that size machine will also be balanced for the same maximum rpm.
> 
> Keep in mind the machine has a capacity of chucking up a 1,000 lb. work piece.  I would think 2,000 rpm would be faster than I would want that much weight spinning, add another 1,000 rpm and its more like a death wish.  This is a medium to large capacity machine designed to turn large parts within the required speed envelope.  Changing out a motor and all the associated hardware only adds cost and doesn't do anything to increase its usability.
> 
> Rather than go through the time and expense to make modifications that will certainly lessen it's value should you decide in the future to sell it, find a machine that will fit your needs.  Then you will be able to spend the money on tooling and stock.  Personally before I would make extensive modifications to this machine I would consider spending the additional money to get either the Grizzly or the PM.  Either of these machines will come with the basic tooling needed to run it, and won't require that the first few weeks of ownership be spent making modifications.


I agree, it will be some work getting a new machine set up, adjusted , leveled ,etc. I'd rather be turning than spending time on modifications.


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## 8mpg (Sep 25, 2018)

Again, thanks guys.

I have been looking at lathes for a while now (6-8 months). Not really knowing size has been the killer. I have been wanting to keep costs down but have just seen way too much worn out stuff locally going for too much money. I know an industrial style machine cant compare to a hobby machine. Im just looking to keep prices down. My original goal was $2500 for a machine then slowly invest in tooling. This lathe does fit that goal which is why I was interested in it.


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## Nogoingback (Sep 26, 2018)

It would be very easy to buy that machine and then spend more than $2500.00 getting up and running. A few repair
parts and some tooling is all it would take.

It is difficult to find the right machine sometimes.  Perhaps expanding your search to a larger geographic area would help.
It might involve some driving, but at least you'd have more to look at.  Something will turn up.
And, size wise, the sweet spot for a lot of hobby machinists is 11 to 13" lathes.


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## projectnut (Sep 26, 2018)

You should be able to find a good used machine in that price range that will require a minimum investment of a static phase converter or VFD to be up and running.  I purchased a Sheldon MW-56-P a few years ago for a similar price.  The best part was the machine had been rebuilt including new headstock bearings and grinding the bed, cross slide and carriage.  It came with 3 chucks, a QCTP, steady rest follow rest, a couple drill chucks , a 5c collet system, a couple live centers and other tooling.

Mine is a 13" x 56" machine like the one in this link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sheldon-La...269824?hash=item4844399580:g:DU8AAMXQQJBQ6bUO

I'm not sure if the machine in the link has had any reconditioning other than a cleanup and fresh coat of paint.  It's been for sale for several months

The only thing I had to do to mine to get it running was install a static phase converter.  The converter cost $65.00 and took less than half an hour to install.  I went the converter route as opposed to the VFD to be able to use all the original controls.  This lathe is a bit unique in that it uses a 110 volt gear motor and variable speed drive to change spindle speeds rather than a gearbox.

The machines are out there.  You just have to be patient and not jump at the first piece of junk you come across.  It took me over 2 years to find a good Bridgeport mill at the right price.  I passed on several other machines before finding one that was being retired from a local high school.  It was originally purchased in 1972 and ran in the shop for about 15 years.  It got moved into storage when CNC machines came along.  I was able to purchase it in 2000 when the high school decided to partner with the local technical college rather than have their own shop.

Expanding your search area could help.  I search in about a 200 mile radius for machinery.  I have found machines in Waupaca WI, Oshkosh WI,  Milwaukee WI, Chicago ILL, and several places in between.  I search Craigslist, the local high schools, technical colleges, universities, and even local shops.  Several of my machines have come from local shops when they were either upgrading, or downsizing.  They have all been in excellent condition and at reasonable prices.


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## ezduzit (Sep 26, 2018)

Nogoingback said:


> It would be very easy to buy that machine and then spend more than $2500.00 getting up and running. A few repair
> parts and some tooling is all it would take...



The very same could be said for _any_ size machine, if you unwisely bought one in either extremely poor condition or without any tooling or accessories.


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## nnam (Sep 26, 2018)

From reading both pros and cons of buying this, I can summarize the following:

1. Check the machine make sure it's good.  Check the way, spindle, screws, nuts, gears, oil, noise, plays, run out.  This is the same as any machine, regardless of size, even with new inexpensive machine from the far east.

2. Can you get it home and keep it.  This is just the same as any machine, even sizes.

3. The size of this machine is not that big.  In fact, if there is room, it's about perfect size.  For lathe, big machine gives very stable cut.  But the experts' opinions here are better than mine.

4. The speed should not be a concern if you use VFD.

5. The power draw is not an issue for 200 amps at home, unless you happen to cook (electric, dry cloth and what not at a same time).  Furthermore, as some one as pointed out, you can use a smaller converter, and then later upgrade the converter.  But, you can use a large converter, but just don't use the machine to cut anything too big.  A 7.5 HP doesn't use 7.5 HP draw.  It's only at max.  I have 20 HP converter at home.  Starts no problem on 60 amp 240 volt.  Once the rotary converter starts, the lathe can run.  Lathe even with gears and all that, draws much less power than a compressor pump without unloader.  On the concern you can't use the max capacity of the machine.  Well, if you buy a smaller machine, you can't use pass its capacity anyway. So I say this is a non-issue.  

6. If beginner is an issue, then it's the beginner issue, not the lathe.  Meaning you may need to learn it.  Or even using this lathe to learn.  Starts with small projects.  Go very slow without any cut.  Practice  dry run many times.  Etc.  For a 3 HP lathe, doing something wrong would be very bad anyway.

7.  If you worry about tooling cost, check if they have tool going along with it.  There is a good chance it does come with some chucks, etc.
There are chinese made tools that are very affordable anyway.

That said, much respects to all the "cons" replies and their authors.


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## mickri (Sep 26, 2018)

IMHO the best place to look for a lightly used lathe is estate sales.  These lathes are typically just used as a hobby often by a retired machinist.  The family just wants to get rid of his junk.  And it will probably come with more tooling and accessories than you will know what to do with it all.  I had been searching for over a year before I found my lathe.  A craftsman 12x36.  It came with every accessory offered by craftsman except for a taper attachment.  And a host of tooling and 5 chucks.  Paid $1200.  It had been bought new by a local farmer who used it to repair and restore some kind of one cylinder pump engine as a hobby.  The lathe was dirty and covered with oil soaked grime from having sat and not been used for several years.  The prior owner had been meticulous in keeping the lathe well cared for.  I did not find a single chip anywhere when I cleaned up the oily grime. 
So don't be in a rush.  Expand your search area.  You will find what you need at a reasonable price.


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## Nogoingback (Sep 26, 2018)

ezduzit said:


> The very same could be said for _any_ size machine, if you unwisely bought one in either extremely poor condition or without any tooling or accessories.



You're right, but all things being equal, a bigger lathe will cost more to put right since the cost of tools and parts will
be higher.


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