# My “new” Atlas 7b Shaper



## Defender92 (Jul 11, 2022)

I just picked up 4 machines on Facebook for a deal I could not pass up. Included was a Atlas 7b shaper. I have been wanting one of these for a long while! 

However after getting it home and doing more reading I’m not sure if it’s more of a cool machine than a practical machine??? 

I’m limited on space in my garage. My shop is currently a hobby shop but I plan on making my shop a *gunsmith machine shop*. Mostly focused on barrel work (contouring, cutting and precision threading). *Will this shaper serve any practical use in my shop??*

It appears mostly complete. It’s missing a vise, ram clamp, door and left side belt cover. 

I also can’t get it to move. The motor works just fine but the ram won’t move. Am I missing something?? 

See my YouTube video


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## bukwirm (Jul 11, 2022)

A mill can do pretty much anything a shaper can do faster, so it's probably more cool than practical (assuming you have a mill, of course). Probably the biggest advantage for a shaper in a hobby shop is that you can grind custom tooling relatively cheaply and easily, since you just need HSS tool blanks.

The ram stroke is adjustable - make sure it is not adjusted to 0.

Unfortunately shaper vises are a little hard to find, but you could make do with a normal milling vise. You'll probably have to stalk Ebay for the other missing parts, or make your own.


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## Defender92 (Jul 11, 2022)

bukwirm said:


> A mill can do pretty much anything a shaper can do faster, so it's probably more cool than practical (assuming you have a mill, of course). Probably the biggest advantage for a shaper in a hobby shop is that you can grind custom tooling relatively cheaply and easily, since you just need HSS tool blanks.
> 
> The ram stroke is adjustable - make sure it is not adjusted to 0.
> 
> Unfortunately shaper vises are a little hard to find, but you could make do with a normal milling vise. You'll probably have to stalk Ebay for the other missing parts, or make your own.


Thanks! I will check the ram stroke.


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## wrat (Jul 11, 2022)

There are several big advantages of a shaper.
But first, we must assume the ram is ACCURATE.  A good, straight, ram with no runout (or nearly none) is the heart and soul of a shaper.
Once you get that figured out, it's great.
In addition to the good points above:
With single point tooling, the shaper can cut that groove, face, shelf, or whatever as accurate, or more, than the average mill.
But you can just let it run.  It might take an hour to traverse across a big flat piece.  Okay, you can find something more productive to do while the thing claps in the background.  Often, a shaper operation can be preparation to a light skim mill cut later.
Generally, you don't run coolant.  So less mess there.  Though some guys will mist a bit and that's fine.
Your lathe tooling can do double duty.
And for my money, the best part is that the workpiece doesn't get near as hot.  Properly setup, the heat literally leaves with the chip, at least mostly.
I don't have one any longer, but I miss the more phlegmatic approach to metal working that a shaper provides.


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## benmychree (Jul 11, 2022)

As others have observed, "you can make anything but money with a shaper".  And the smaller it is the more true it is.


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## Technical Ted (Jul 11, 2022)

I love my shaper, but pretty much only use it for internal keyways (I've done tapered bore and straight), an odd ball internal spline coupling, odd angle dovetails, etc.. I would use one of my mills for straight, flat mill work, etc.. If you have the room it might proof to be useful for you, but if you are limited just get it running and sell it, especially if you don't already have a mill. The shaper does have some unique uses in a hobby shop and they are fun to run! 

Ted


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## pacifica (Jul 11, 2022)

For how often you  use a shaper and the room it takes up seems like there are a number of alternatives: Keyway broaches, rotary broaches, square push broaches and various setups on lathes using a cutting tool in a boring bar and moving the carriage in and out.


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## tweinke (Jul 11, 2022)

It is excellent for cleaning up metal, removing mill scale and rust. Squaring up stock. It can run in the background with very little attention to it. But my favorite thing is it is calming to hear and watch. With decent tool grinds leaves a nice surface finish too. Is a mill faster? Probably but tooling cost is almost nil.


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## Janderso (Jul 11, 2022)

benmychree said:


> As others have observed, "you can make anything but money with a shaper".  And the smaller it is the more true it is.



How big is your shaper John? 24”?


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## pontiac428 (Jul 11, 2022)

Defender92 said:


> However after getting it home and doing more reading I’m not sure if it’s more of a cool machine than a practical machine???
> 
> I’m limited on space in my garage. My shop is currently a hobby shop but I plan on making my shop a *gunsmith machine shop*. Mostly focused on barrel work (contouring, cutting and precision threading). *Will this shaper serve any practical use in my shop??*



I would think a shaper would open up some possibilities for a gunsmith, particularly when it comes to making parts for pre-CNC guns.  It could be useful for shaped bores with sharp internal corners that can't be milled, slots, bolt raceways, stuff like that.


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## wa5cab (Jul 12, 2022)

Shapers today tend to suffer suffer from "bad press".  Statements like "a shaper can make almost anything in the shop except money".  However,
I suspect that the advent of cheap Chinese mills had more ti do with the decrease in popularity than anything else.  And the fact that a vertical can double as a drill press  thus possibly saving time.  But it isn't fair or correct to say that given a job that either a shaper could do that the mill will always be faster.  Because it could depend upon the relative horsepower available.  And maybe whether or not there was any drilling or tapping to be performed.  However, if you expect to mostly be doing barrel work, I can't think of any operations that could be done on a shaper unless you include receivers.


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## Defender92 (Jul 12, 2022)

I got her running! I’m guessing it just got gummed up from sitting. I oiled it and operated it by hand until it was really smooth.

See my new video I just uploaded

Now I’m starting to think the current motor is a replacement and doesn’t have enough horsepower? It’s running just fine in the video but if I adjust the pulley onto pretty much any other position it stalls the motor. And also I have hardly any room to adjust the pulley. It’s a B word getting it around the power feed shaft. Is that normal??







As you can see in the video the shaper and table bounce quite a bit. I repainted the ram guard and right side pulley guard. I’m waiting on them to dry before I reinstall. They weigh maybe 20-30 pounds all together. I’m hoping this might balance it out?? Any other ideas?? Is this common???

So I’m planning on getting her up and running. Then learn how to use it and mess around with it. If I can find ANY use for it I’m keeping it. I just love this thing. But if not I’m sadly going to have to part with it. Space is critical. My home shop (aka “hopefully soon weekend business and eventually retirement job”) will mostly focus on barrel work (if I find it to be a profitable business) but I also have a CNC plasma cutter and plan on making artsy and unique stuff. Maybe the shaper will prove useful


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## ErichKeane (Jul 12, 2022)

I LOVE to use a shaper for the castings, stuff that would destroy a carbide endmill (or even HSS) get slowly/deliberately removed on the shaper.  Additionally, it can do some things that require a REALLY expensive tool to do (such as splines, oddball sized broaching, dovetails, etc), so i like mine (though mine is 28"!).   Another thing it can be useful for is a convex angle less than 90 degrees.  Those tend to require oddball sizes, which gets to be a pain.

The ability to just let it 'run' and be done with it is SUPER handy.  I can often let it just run for a while while working on other things, cleaning up a casting I'm going to use 'later'.

I WILL say, the little ones do a fantastic job on a lot of the little oddball features, so I might suggest that IT might be more useful for you due to the size.

As far as the motor:  The 1/3 motor was one of the ones spec'ed for that machine originally (1/3 or 1/2).  I suspect you might have some gummed up shafts or surfaces in desperate need of a clean/oiling (particularly the ram?) that might be making this not work.  My 7B with a 1/3 HP motor was able to make some significant cuts at any belt position.

The bouncing might just need to to be put on feet of some sort, it looks like where it is sitting is a little wobbly?  Either way, it wouldn't be a problem, I might suggest just getting it on rubber feet.


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## Defender92 (Jul 12, 2022)

ErichKeane said:


> I LOVE to use a shaper for the castings, stuff that would destroy a carbide endmill (or even HSS) get slowly/deliberately removed on the shaper.  Additionally, it can do some things that require a REALLY expensive tool to do (such as splines, oddball sized broaching, dovetails, etc), so i like mine (though mine is 28"!).   Another thing it can be useful for is a convex angle less than 90 degrees.  Those tend to require oddball sizes, which gets to be a pain.
> 
> The ability to just let it 'run' and be done with it is SUPER handy.  I can often let it just run for a while while working on other things, cleaning up a casting I'm going to use 'later'.
> 
> ...


Thanks for helping me try to decide to keep it!

If I do keep it I’m going to make a caster base with adjustable feet like this one I made for my Clausing 8520.





Hopefully that might add some weight and slightly widen it’s footprint.


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## ErichKeane (Jul 12, 2022)

The widened footprint, especially if bolted to that, is likely a great idea.


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## C-Bag (Jul 12, 2022)

My 7b shaper has come in very handy and I’ve not even gotten around to doing what I thought I wanted it for, cutting dovetail’s. The shaper is definitely not the fastest machine in the arsenal but it is one of the cheapest to run if you grind you’re own HSS bits like I do. it also puts out the nicest finish only beaten by a surface grinder. I’ve done setups on it that I wouldn’t have been able to do on my mill/drill. Really the only limit is the creativity of the operator. I also love I can set it up to do a cut and go do something else. Many a time I’ve had my shaper, vertical bandsaw and horizontal bandsaw all going at the same time. Basically feeding parts to each other. FYI I run mine at the slowest speed as it produces the best finish.


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## Defender92 (Jul 13, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> My 7b shaper has come in very handy and I’ve not even gotten around to doing what I thought I wanted it for, cutting dovetail’s. The shaper is definitely not the fastest machine in the arsenal but it is one of the cheapest to run if you grind you’re own HSS bits like I do. it also puts out the nicest finish only beaten by a surface grinder. I’ve done setups on it that I wouldn’t have been able to do on my mill/drill. Really the only limit is the creativity of the operator. I also love I can set it up to do a cut and go do something else. Many a time I’ve had my shaper, vertical bandsaw and horizontal bandsaw all going at the same time. Basically feeding parts to each other. FYI I run mine at the slowest speed as it produces the best finish.


Well you guys are doing a good job helping me decide to keep it 

I’m going to sell off the other tools I have no use for in the package deal. Then start getting the 7b in tip top shape and replacing the missing pieces. 

The only other machine that I had on my list that I haven’t got yet is a small horizontal mill like an atlas one.


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## Technical Ted (Jul 13, 2022)

It looks like the belt between the motor and the jackshaft is way too loose... it might be slipping and moving the motor back to tighten the belt might give you more room to change belt positions on the jackshaft. Also, the speed you are running in the video is WAY fast! I've never run my Rhodes anywhere near that speed... You most likely don't have all four corners of the base hitting the floor solidly. If you make the base more sturdy and slow it down I think you'll have better results. 

I always run mine slow enough that I can keep my hand on the head vertical feed and manually feed it down while cutting a slot, dovetail, vertical or angled slope. They are not meant to be fast!!! And keep that ram well lubed! 

What I found works GREAT for me is I replaced the motor that someone had mounted on my Rhodes (originally a line shaft drive system) with an oversized (3/4HP) 3 phase motor with a VFD. I can run it anywhere from super slow to way to fast! It's really nice being able to tweak the pot and get the Goldilocks speed! The oversized motor helps when running slow so not to stress the motor much at slower RPMs.

On shapers this size I usually see 1/2HP motors from my experience. A 1/3 HP split phase motor may not be the best choice, but it shouldn't stall just by running the machine with no cut...

Ted


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## Technical Ted (Jul 13, 2022)

Do a search on this site for shapers... you'll find several posts by me and others. Here are a couple of mine:









						More shaper fun! Making internal splines.
					

The longer I have it, the more I love my little Rhodes shaper! What a handy machine to have in the shop. I needed to make two internal spline hubs for a fellow machinist I know that's an odd size. Both he and I searched, but couldn't find generic hubs for a 1-3/8" OD x 10 involute spline shaft...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				












						Rhodes shaper - Impossible dovetail puzzles
					

My little 7" Rhodes has been busy. This makes 5 of these puzzles I have made. They are very popular with family and friends!  Ted




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				












						Cutting tapered keyways with my Rhodes shaper
					

Man I love my little Rhodes shaper! It's a very handy item to have in a shop and the size is perfect for the bulk of the work I do.  I only got one right hand grinding wheel adaptor with my Cincinnati #1 tool and cutter grinder so I decided to make 6 of them; 3 right handed and 3 left. They are...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




Have fun with it!
Ted


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## wachuko (Jul 13, 2022)

Defender92 said:


> ...The only other machine that I had on my list that I haven’t got yet is a small horizontal mill like an atlas one.



I have no need for one... but I want one just for how cool they look... Too bad the amount folks want for those is ridiculous... or I should say, outside of what I am willing to pay...


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## C-Bag (Jul 13, 2022)

wachuko said:


> I have no need for one... but I want one just for how cool they look... Too bad the amount folks want for those is ridiculous... or I should say, outside of what I am willing to pay...
> 
> View attachment 413605


I felt that way about my 7b. My curiosity got peeked when two came up in the local CL. I barely knew what a mill and lathe were and had no clue what a shaper was. What I came to realize was they were both stripped. No belt covers, ratchet box, vise, side cover or tool holder. Looking on eBay I realized that’s where the parts probably went. i have no idea what OP paid for the shaper but vises run $250+, belt covers same and the good tool holder if you can find them are close to that. That’s about the time prices on these small shapers exploded and they got stupid expensive. I never figured i find one for a decent price that wasn’t a total wreck. But I’d done my research so I knew what I was looking at and one day in an estate sale 3/4 buried boxes of tools there it was complete except for a motor belt cover. And at an steal of a price.

So if you really want one wachuko do your research as there are weaknesses in those machines and be patient. It might take years but it will show up.


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## C-Bag (Jul 13, 2022)

Technical Ted said:


> It looks like the belt between the motor and the jackshaft is way too loose...


This is how the clutch works on the 7b. I found mine worked better with the belt cover as the cover kinda hugs the outside when the clutch is engaged and keeps the machine from creeping.


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## C-Bag (Jul 13, 2022)

As far as getting running, IMHO the correct tool holder(that looks like a lathe tool holder and a shaper holder has no back rake) and a side cover along with a cover over the old switch hole are necessary. Especially the two covers as ingesting grit into the innards where the bull gear is is a huge no no, They are just greased so attract dirt and grime and impossible to clean without disassembly. And that is a huge project along with possibly catastrophic to the bull gear and pinion. The 7b is I think what they call a loss system as if it’s not dripping oil or grease it’s not good. I’d suggest finding the manual and knowing where all the lube points are before you go running it for any extended periods.

The OEM vise while useful, like with the belt covers, can be worked around. A good clamp kit and toe clamps can do wonders. A regular mill vise sux on the 7b because it severely cuts into your Z height which is pretty limited. I pretty much ditched the rotating base on my OEM vise because it ate up Z.


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## Bi11Hudson (Jul 13, 2022)

I have a "7-B" that sits for months at a time covered with "stuff". But there are jobs where nothing will do but using a shaper. When it is running, it is quiet and doesn't require a lot of attention. And as noted above, relaxing. . . Add in that a simple HSS tool blank is the only tooling required, the savings are enormous. Think of a shaper as the "great grand daddy" of a milling machine. Anything that can be done on a milling machine can be done on a shaper. Just don't get in a hurry. As the saying goes, "you can make anything but money. . ." I actually bought my shaper before I bought a *real* lathe. The 3X6 doesn't count. . .

Early on in my ownership of the machine(>20 yrs) I tried using carbide insert tooling from a (cheap) kit. The 3/8 tools fit the lantern tool post quite well. A tool holder would be nice, but I haven't found one at a price I was willing to pay. HSS tool blanks do quite well, carbide doesn't like the interrupted cuts. It works, but. . . 

Scrap iron in this area is a political issue. Just keeping a good machine out of the scrap pile means a lot. Even if it is only used to demonstrate what a shaper does.

.


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## IamNotImportant (Jul 13, 2022)

wachuko said:


> I have no need for one... but I want one just for how cool they look... Too bad the amount folks want for those is ridiculous... or I should say, outside of what I am willing to pay...
> 
> View attachment 413605


would like to have one myself


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## Technical Ted (Jul 13, 2022)

Tool holders, of all sorts, sizes and designs, can be easily made. I made modified versions of these and they work very well.

Note that I also made a solid tool holder block that I can swap out with the clapper when using some of the tool holders. Works better than locking the clapper in place; more rigid and flexible because you can make custom designs for holding various tools and holders.

Ted


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## wa5cab (Jul 14, 2022)

On the speed change due to belt size problem, I looked at the assembly drawings and they don't look promising.  I would suggest seeing how the next size smaller cross-section belt looks in the pulley grooves.


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## oppomojos (Sep 29, 2022)

benmychree said:


> As others have observed, "you can make anything but money with a shaper".  And the smaller it is the more true it is.


If you have vision and/or talent you can make good money with just about anything, including a 7b.

Defender, 
You have a nice looking machine and you'll regret selling it!   Not sure what you have in it but it's well worth finishing.  I also see you are missing the stroke length pointer on the ram that is nice to have.  I agree with slllloooowing it down.  Your table feed is not advancing in the video either and it's adjusted to the maximum feed advance.   Does it "click" when  manually traversing the knee left or right?


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## lordbeezer (Oct 1, 2022)

I might have the cover you’re missing. If you can find out the casting number I’ll check.


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## Defender92 (Oct 2, 2022)

oppomojos said:


> If you have vision and/or talent you can make good money with just about anything, including a 7b.
> 
> Defender,
> You have a nice looking machine and you'll regret selling it!   Not sure what you have in it but it's well worth finishing.  I also see you are missing the stroke length pointer on the ram that is nice to have.  I agree with slllloooowing it down.  Your table feed is not advancing in the video either and it's adjusted to the maximum feed advance.   Does it "click" when  manually traversing the knee left or right?


Ironically I posted my shaper on Facebook marketplace the day before you posted this message. $650 and so far no takers. Maybe too high??

It was a tough decision but I’m limited on room in my shop and couldn’t think of any uses for my type of work. However, if it doesn’t sell soon I’m going to keep it and put it in storage for a future restoration project. 

Right now I have my eye on a large vintage band saw that will take the spot of the shaper.


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