# Old Scraping Class  and Misc. Info



## Richard King (Jul 19, 2012)

Hi all...

I will be teaching a scraping class here in MN this weekend and next week July 21 - 27 in Minnetonka inside a former students garage.  If any locals wants to come and watch a few hours, your invited.  
Shoot me a quick note and I'll send you the address.  The host is a amateur photographer and  will post some pictures after the class.  We will be teaching hand and power scraping and basic alignment and machine scraping.  Next week we will be scraping some small SB lathes and a Chinese built Mill.


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## David (Jul 19, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

Hi Richard,

That's a very nice offer.  Wish I was closer, I would enjoy seeing how that is done!

David


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## Richard King (Jul 20, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*



David said:


> Hi Richard,
> 
> That's a very nice offer.  Wish I was closer, I would enjoy seeing how that is done!
> 
> David



I taught a Dallas Class last year in a guys home shop.  It was a bear-cat as it was during that long heatwave you had..60+ days of over 100.   I also taught one for Campat Machine in Plano a couple of weeks later so there service techs could re-glue Turcite and scrape it on the CNC machines they sell and service. Thank goodness they invented AC back when, ha ha.  Pass the word around Texas and Help organize a class sometime.  If you host the class you get the training for free.


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## rustngreese (Jul 21, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

I wish I could attend that class, but it would be a 2000 mile trip for me.  I am installing a new set of ways on my Southbend heavy 10 lathe and I may be scraping my saddle to fit the new ways and I don't have a clue about what I am doing.  I do understand how to do the dye-chem part to find the high and low spots but to actually make a slide fit to the ways of my lathe maybe a bit beyond my scope of knowledge.  Does anyone on this forum have any experience in this type of situation?  I would love to hear any comments.  Thanks, Randy


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## November X-ray (Jul 21, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*



rustngreese said:


> I wish I could attend that class, but it would be a 2000 mile trip for me.  I am installing a new set of ways on my Southbend heavy 10 lathe and I may be scraping my saddle to fit the new ways and I don't have a clue about what I am doing.  I do understand how to do the dye-chem part to find the high and low spots but to actually make a slide fit to the ways of my lathe maybe a bit beyond my scope of knowledge.  Does anyone on this forum have any experience in this type of situation?  I would love to hear any comments.  Thanks, Randy



Randy - I suggest sending the OP of this thread a PM, I believe he is the person you seek!


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## Richard King (Jul 21, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*



November X-ray said:


> Randy - I suggest sending the OP of this thread a PM, I believe he is the person you seek!


I have some ideas for you, but tonight I am tired after the first day of the class, so won't go into great detail now..  But a couple of things you need to do.  Relieve the centers of the saddle ways that match the bed.  I would make the middle 1/3 low appox. 0005" to .001".  We do this so the saddle does not rock.  I normally pre-qualify those saddle ways using a cast iron straight-edge before match fitting it to the bed so I know it won't rock, I am assuming you do not have a straight-edge.  So You relieve the middle and keep bluing it up until the blue does not hit the middle.   Norally when you are scraping, you are removing .0002" per scrape, so you will have to calculate 2 to 5 scrapes to do this.  This is why I recommend you measure the depth of how deep your scrape marks are with a surface guage and .0001" indicator.  Another thing you should do while scraping the saddle is to use a mag base and mount it on the bed and use a .0005" indicator and indicate the bottom of the saddle where the apron bolts on.  It should be parallel to the bed ways as you slide the saddle side ways.  This way the drive shafts will not bind up if the saddle is before you scrape it.sitting cock-eyed to the bed.  I would also take a soft blow hammer and hit on the 4 corners and listen to see if the saddle is sitting firmly on the bed. (OH be sure you have the bed aligned before you scrape.)   But listen to the sound, if it is open it will have a clanging / hollow sound and if it fits tight it will have a solid sound.  I will write more later...
Check those things now...   You can also PM me if the other guy is to busy, as I have over 40 years experience rebuilding lathes and all sorts of machine tools for my profession.  
Rich


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## Tony Wells (Jul 21, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

Rich, I have a lot of respect for the art. It amazes me that you speak of moving tenths across a large surface with consistency. I understand the 3 piece method pf creating straightedges, and the necessity of good straightedges for this type of work. I believe I could probably pull off a flat surface, but the tricks of angular scraping of vee ways, and the establishing of perpendicular relationships between ways, like on milling machines, elude me. 

I really hope to attend a class at some point. I don't have a large shop, nor do I know that there are many that would/could attend if I hosted a class, but I would certainly consider it.


Oppps.....I think I posted this on wrong spot.  The above was from Tony Wells

-------------------- My reply to Tony..

I say I can teach anyone as long as they are mechanically inclined and your as heck are..ha ha.
Many are afraid to try it on their own.  But as students have told me; they read the Connelly Book and never quite understood it, but having a skilled on-looker to guide them it made sense.  As I told the 8 men who are attending my class now, it's like bulding a house if you start out with a solid and level foundation you build everything up plumb you will do fine.  We do leave part out of square on purpose sometimes because of sag and tool pressures when you using the machine.  But I cover that in the class.  As in many things "Practice Makes Perfect" and there is a learning curve one has to go through.  I have had several students rebuild small lathes and mills after the class.  I hate to blow my own horn, but 40+ years of doing, I have learned many tricks of the trade I pass on to the students.
The best way to get out the word on an up coming class is to post a thread on here and I can post one on a couple of other sites, Ebay, Craig's List and word of mouth and see who is willing to attend and then send a down payment.  Many say they want to come, but when you ask them for a deposit to hold their spot the interest fades.. ha ha.
Rich


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## rustngreese (Jul 22, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

Rich,  thanks for the great information!  I will get my ways aligned first and do the procedures that you outlined, that should get me started in the right direction.  I will keep you posted on my progress.  I will not be starting for a couple of weeks as I have a vacation to get out of the way but I will be working on it as soon as I return.  Hope you have a great class, I am envious not being able to take the class, but where I live it is 75 degrees F. and breezy.  Maybe we can scrape up (pardon the pun)  enough guys here on the west coast to get a class out here!  I will be contacting you again, undoubtedly.  Thanks again Rich.


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## Richard King (Jul 25, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

The class is finished and it was a good group of guys.  Jeff from Missouri shared with the group an amazing product, that I wanted to tell everyone about.  I had a old Acme screw machine slide that was super rusty that I figured that someone could clean it up and scrape it for a project in the class.  Jeff asked if I had ever use "Evap-o-rust"... I had never heard of it.  He bought a gallon at an auto parts store poured it in a bucket and set the slide it the bucket.  No smell...no harsh fumes...and within a couple of hours the rust had dissolved completely off the slide.  It was amazing.  No more acid based rust removers for me.  Check it out!   Rich
PS>  Will write more about the class in a couple of days.


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## Tony Wells (Jul 26, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

It's pretty popular with the guys here, Rich. I've never tried it, but I plan to on a project I am eyeballing. I'll have to find a source around here, but I'm sure I will.

Bill Gruby has soaked a lathe in it yesterday I think....came out almost like new.


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## turbotadd (Jul 26, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

I was one of the students in the MN class Rich taught. I attended for 4 of the 5 days and cannot say enough good things about the class. I had never scraped anything before, just had an interest and a 9" Southbend torn apart. Richard told us on the first day that he would train us as a father would his son, and he did. He was probably the best instructor i've ever had the privilege to learn from. It amazed me how Richard could, with one look at the blued up part, identify what I was doing wrong, and explain it in a manner that really made sense. Truly a great teacher that cares about each student learning and understanding. I would highly recommend anyone that has the opportunity to participate in one of his classes does so!


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## Richard King (Jul 26, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*



turbotadd said:


> I was one of the students in the MN class Rich taught. I attended for 4 of the 5 days and cannot say enough good things about the class. I had never scraped anything before, just had an interest and a 9" Southbend torn apart. Richard told us on the first day that he would train us as a father would his son, and he did. He was probably the best instructor i've ever had the privilege to learn from. It amazed me how Richard could, with one look at the blued up part, identify what I was doing wrong, and explain it in a manner that really made sense. Truly a great teacher that cares about each student learning and understanding. I would highly recommend anyone that has the opportunity to participate in one of his classes does so!



Thank You, I had a great time teaching you guys  
If you ever need any help , send me a note or call.  Rich


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## truckin23 (Jul 29, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

Tony 

O'Reilly Auto Parts proably has the best price on Evapo-Rust 22.99 a gallon I just did the table on my mill and it came out amazing and that was only 2 hours since then I let it soak another 22 hours and and the t bolt slots are completely clean of rust .

Good luck Bob


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## Tony Wells (Jul 29, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

Well, we definitely have O'Reilly's here. I'll have to look next time I'm in the area. Thanks for the tip. I use a bit of Prep-n-Prime, and it does a great job as a conversion coating, but I don't think I like the idea of a phosphate coating on ways, etc., or other precision surfaces.


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## Bill Gruby (Jul 29, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

Evapo-Rust at Harbor Freight is  under $20.00 here in Ct. on sale every other month. Regular $29.99/gal. I get 4 gallons at a time for $15.00/gal. Th8is is the best studd for removing any amount of rust. Tony, that lathe bed and legs were emersed in it for less than 2 hours. It is also environmental friendly. Pour the used Evapo-Rust right down the drain. No smell either.

"Billy G" :whistle:


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## Tony Wells (Jul 29, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

Nearest HF is about 35 miles away. I don't get there often.

How long does it last before it stops working, as in used up?


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## Bill Gruby (Jul 29, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

I keep the used stuff in an empty gal. container and have used it for 6 months. Could probably do lite work for much longer.

 "Billy G" )


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## truckin23 (Aug 6, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

Tony ,

They claim that a gallon is good for up to 300 lbs of rust I poured mine back into the

original containers using a transmission funnel and a paper cone paint filter .

    Bob Gannon


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## Tony Wells (Sep 11, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

Welcome to the forum, 2 Pencils. I know where Splendora is, and Cleveland as well. A cousin of mine married a girl from there a few years ago, and the wedding was held in Cleveland. About 3.5 hours south for me.

I'm considering hosting a scraping seminar in my small shop, if there is enough interest. There are a few members within a reasonable driving distance to Tyler, so if I can swing it and there are members wanting to do it, maybe we can get Richard to come down here and show us how it's done.


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## Richard King (Sep 12, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

Good Morning,

I would e happy to teach a class again in Texas. I have taught 2 down there so far.  A couple of years ago I taught a long weekend class in Dallas for a group of guys who read another popular site.  I still contribute on there, but prefer this friendlier site.  I had a great time accept we did the class in July during that super hot summer you had.  Then I drove to Tulsa and taught a 3 day class in OK Machine and then back I drove to Plano where I taught a week long class at a Compat CNC Machine Sales where I taught them to scrape and apply Rulon and scrape it.  For you who don't know what that is, it's the green plastic they glue on CNC machines so they don't get stick slip. I use Rulon, ut there is another product called Turcite that is the same thing.  I would love to come to Texas to teach ya-all.  Would have to be next year as I am pretty much booked up now.  Check out the other threads were writing on here now.  I have been talking about scraping plus downloaded some pictures and and charts that I am sure will e of interest to you.  Rich


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## dfwcnc (Dec 25, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

If anyone does a class in Fort Worth, count me in.  I'm very interested, but Tyler is too far for me to drive.


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## Richard King (Dec 25, 2012)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*



dfwcnc said:


> If anyone does a class in Fort Worth, count me in.  I'm very interested, but Tyler is too far for me to drive.



I had a day class in Dallas a couple of years ago and those of us who didn't live there stayed at a hotel.  I think in  few days a couple of guys will be announcing plans for a class in NC.  We are also planning a class in the Bay area of CA for the spring.   I will teach anywhere.. If anyone in the Fort worth area has a Big Garage shop let us know.  I don't need much to hold a seminar.  There are 2 guys in NC who are working together to organizing a class down there.  They met on here reading posts and Pm'ed each other.


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## Terrywerm (Jan 2, 2013)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

Richard,

If you were to do a class again in the Minnesota area I would certainly be interested in atttending. I missed out on the class you had last summer due to not having any vacation time left for the year but that's the way life goes sometimes. I realize it might be a while before you have one around here again, but I will keep my eyes and ears peeled for that day when it comes.


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## Uglydog (Jan 6, 2013)

*Re: Teaching a Scraping Class this weekend and next week here in MN*

Please also count me in for a MN scraping class!

Uglydog
Dayton, MN


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