# Face mill recommendations?



## macmccaskie (Aug 12, 2021)

I have PM833T mill (2 hp) and am starting to look at indexable face mills.  I'll use it primarily on mild steel for stock removal and can switch to a fly cutter for finish work if needed.  I'm waffling between the 2" to 3" sizes, and leaning toward odd number of flutes.  The Glacern FM45-250 has been mentioned several times in the past and wondered if it's still a favored brand on this site or if I need to check out other makes.  Thanks all.


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## graham-xrf (Aug 12, 2021)

This is a question I also will be lurking on. My little mill drill is typical of many small hobby machine types, and it has half the power of yours. That need not always be so, but I recognize there is a limit on how much to expect from these, both in respect of stiffness and cutting power. Mine may be all I ever need, but I hesitate to shell out good money on a drool face cutter to discover it is just too big.

Not that I want to be forever spending ages going back and forth over a surface with a 12mm end mill cutter, and maybe finish with a fly cutter, but it would be nice to have some perspective about what is the realistic maximum. I will likely play a bit with hiking the power somewhat until I risk breaking something, but my heart still thinks a refurbished Bridgeport (or similar) is where the HM smitten end up!


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## pontiac428 (Aug 12, 2021)

Feed, speed, and depth of cut will determine what you can do.  I used to run a 3" 8-fl on my Rong Fu, and it did okay on steel with shallow cuts.  Finish wasn't perfect, but was pretty good.  I was running my often used 6-fl 2" Kennametal face mill this weekend to square aluminum, no strain on the Lagun at a sorta-random .040 doc at 35 IPM and 800 rpm.  Finish is like a mirror.  Facing mill is an easy tool to use and gives very good results.  I'm convinced they don't take much power when run like an end mill with reasonable cuts.  You might want a 2" and a 3" for different sizes of work.


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## macmccaskie (Aug 12, 2021)

From what I read the smaller mills do better with 45deg inserts and will work fine for flat surfaces.


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## pacifica (Aug 12, 2021)

Only 2 edges per insert but an apkt style facemill or end mill gives the best surface of anything I have(  including flycutter, 2 flute endmills, 4 flute endmills, 6 flute endmills,tpg facemill). They have very advanced cutter geometry with great chipbreakers.


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## machPete99 (Aug 12, 2021)

I only have one face mill, the 2" Glacern 45 with 4 cutters each having 4 edges.
On my hopped up Rockwell (1 HP) it is enough to get the machine in a sweat with some DOC (say .020) if doing close to full pass.
The finish is generally good with light passes, otherwise can get some slight difference in finish at start and end of cut from the change in pressure.


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## davidpbest (Aug 12, 2021)

You might find this interesting:   









						Haas 2" and 4" Face Mill Testing
					

Haas is now getting into the consumables business.  I bought several of their face mill kits.  Click photo for descriptions below.




					flic.kr


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## macmccaskie (Aug 12, 2021)

Thanks David:  Hey, I never thought to check Haas, I always thought they were above my pay grade.  Thanks. I already have a 2" with APTK inserts (well it starts with "AP") and it does well.  I'm wanting more of a workhorse for just surfacing and stock removal.  The 45 deg cutters have 4 edges per piece and "they say" takes less umph!  (back to checking on HAAS...)


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## davidpbest (Aug 12, 2021)

macmccaskie said:


> Thanks David:  Hey, I never thought to check Haas, I always thought they were above my pay grade.  Thanks. I already have a 2" with APTK inserts (well it starts with "AP") and it does well.  I'm wanting more of a workhorse for just surfacing and stock removal.  The 45 deg cutters have 4 edges per piece and "they say" takes less umph!  (back to checking on HAAS...)


Haas has a variety of face mills that take various insert shapes.  Note that many of the Haas tool have proprietary inserts  - they may look industry standard, but many are unique to Haas.   Have a look here:









						You guys are getting out of hand.
					

To the OP, your complaints are due to the basic mistake of walking into a church and asking if their religion is the right one. Of course!  Even worse, he walked into a bar expecting to find help to quit drinking.




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## mattthemuppet2 (Aug 12, 2021)

stock removal would be better done by a 1/2" cobalt roughing end mill. You can take 100 thou of an inch wide piece of steel in 2 or 3 passes, a facemill would take 4 or 5. I use a 2" 45deg facemill on my Grizzly 6x26 (bit lighter than the 833) with ground inserts for alu. Works great on steel and leaves a beautiful finish, at the expense of tip life. 15 thou DOC full width is comfortable, 20 thou is ok but pushing it a bit. I tried molded inserts but it just chattered and jumped around, leaving a terrible finish. The ground inserts are amazing on alu too. That was the inspiration behind my various chip guards on the mill, so the garage wouldn't get coated in chips!


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## BladesIIB (Aug 12, 2021)

I have a 3" Glacern for my manual mill and a 2.5" Glacern for my CNC.  I have been very happy with both of them.


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## T Bredehoft (Aug 12, 2021)

I     once ran a 9" Sandvic face mill on a 4" Lucas horizontal, I  could take .300 depth of cut full width in CI like cutting butter. We rigged a vacuum to try to keep the dust down.

Sorry, I had to brag.


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## Aaron_W (Aug 13, 2021)

graham-xrf said:


> This is a question I also will be lurking on. My little mill drill is typical of many small hobby machine types, and it has half the power of yours. That need not always be so, but I recognize there is a limit on how much to expect from these, both in respect of stiffness and cutting power. Mine may be all I ever need, but I hesitate to shell out good money on a drool face cutter to discover it is just too big.
> 
> Not that I want to be forever spending ages going back and forth over a surface with a 12mm end mill cutter, and maybe finish with a fly cutter, but it would be nice to have some perspective about what is the realistic maximum. I will likely play a bit with hiking the power somewhat until I risk breaking something, but my heart still thinks a refurbished Bridgeport (or similar) is where the HM smitten end up!



For a small mill, Sherline makes an insert fly cutter that is basically a 1" single flute face mill. Mikey has recommended this cutter for small mills before and Sherline now offers it with a straight shank instead of the standard MT1 so it can be held in a collet.

I have one I use on my Clausing 8520 6x24" 3/4hp mill and it works great.

https://www.sherline.com/product/7620s-single-flute-insert-fly-cutter-with-straight-shaft/


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## graham-xrf (Aug 13, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> For a small mill, Sherline makes an insert fly cutter that is basically a 1" single flute face mill. Mikey has recommended this cutter for small mills before and Sherline now offers it with a straight shank instead of the standard MT1 so it can be held in a collet.
> 
> I have one I use on my Clausing 8520 6x24" 3/4hp mill and it works great.
> 
> https://www.sherline.com/product/7620s-single-flute-insert-fly-cutter-with-straight-shaft/


Thanks for the tip Aaron. My mill is 750W - so basically 1HP.
Thanks also to @pontiac428. John - what sort of motor power did you have available when driving those cutters?


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## pontiac428 (Aug 13, 2021)

graham-xrf said:


> Thanks for the tip Aaron. My mill is 750W - so basically 1HP.
> Thanks also to @pontiac428. John - what sort of motor power did you have available when driving those cutters?


The RF was 2 Taiwanese HP and the Lagun is 3 French HP (Spanish mill, French motor). I know those are bigger motors than what you've got, but at depths of cut like .040, it should be no problem. Just slow your feed if needed.


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## mysterysniper (Aug 15, 2021)

These are bigger than what you are looking for min size is 5 inch but take a look the finish it leaves is incredible and they are adjustable


			FLY CUTTER SETS from Suburban Tool, Inc.


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## mksj (Aug 15, 2021)

I would not recommend the FM45 series positive rake face mill for stock removal and it is designed more for surfacing in softer materials or surfacing in steels. I would recommend a square 90 degree shoulder with minimal pocket rake insert/face mill (FM90 series) for stock removable in steel, but you will be limited more by Hp and rigidity. A 2.5" diameter face mill would be a good size for ferrous material, non-ferrous probably 3" in a FM45 style. I have a 2" face mill APMT/APKT style insert which is a 90 degree insert that allows more vertical cut. You can take a deeper cut and more cutters allows nice material removal. I lent mine out to a friend who needed to make some fingers for his bender using CRS stock and if I recall he was doing a 0.1DOC by 0.3" at 700 RPM, 8" IPM on his Lagun and removed a lot of material with a nice finish, he had to do something like 30 fingers.

Like David Best I also purchase the Haas face mill at his recommendation and went with the HS6NP in a 2.5", it uses their trigon type insert with 6 cutting edges and a DOC up to 0.3". I milled some 1018 CRS with it and the finish was like a mirror, I feel both finish and rate of material removal was better than my  APMT/APKT style. The Haas inserts are pretty massive in comparison traditional inserts.  If you are doing just steel and want deeper shouldering then the HRNP may be a better choice, there are 4 cutting edges, as these inserts can be both rotated and flipped. So an expensive up front investment but should last a very long time. They have a series of videos for each face mill that you can review. There are alternative brands, my older face mills are Iscar and Sandvik, they work great but often have proprietary inserts like the Octagons which can be quite expensive.





						Shell Mill Bodies
					






					www.haascnc.com
				



HRNP – Haas Rectangle Negative Positive
HS6NP – Haas Sq Shoulder 6 Negative Positive

Iscar 2" face mill 90 degree APMT/APKT steel shouldering, Iscar 2" face mill Octagon insert steel surfacing maximum DOC ~0.050", Sandvik 2.5" face mill 45 degree insert style with positive rake for aluminum surfacing maximum DOC ~0.1". RPM in steel is usually in the 600-1200 RPM, aluminum 2600-3500 RPM. Too high a speed in steel and not enough chip removal will burn up the inserts quickly, so need to look at chip load. Inserts for aluminum have sharper cutting edges and sit in a positive rake pocket. Fly cutters may work well to get a wide consistent surface finish but you are limited as to speed and DOC. In softer materials I use a 4" surface mill with 7 sharp octagons, positive rake and get a mirror finish in different materials running at around 2600 RPM and around 10 IPM. But a bit too big for your size mill.


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## macmccaskie (Aug 16, 2021)

mksj said:


> I would not recommend the FM45 series positive rake face mill for stock removal and it is designed more for surfacing in softer materials or surfacing in steels. I would recommend a square 90 degree shoulder with minimal pocket rake insert/face mill (FM90 series) for stock removable in steel, but you will be limited more by Hp and rigidity. A 2.5" diameter face mill would be a good size for ferrous material, non-ferrous probably 3" in a FM45 style. I have a 2" face mill APMT/APKT style insert which is a 90 degree insert that allows more vertical cut. You can take a deeper cut and more cutters allows nice material removal. I lent mine out to a friend who needed to make some fingers for his bender using CRS stock and if I recall he was doing a 0.1DOC by 0.3" at 700 RPM, 8" IPM on his Lagun and removed a lot of material with a nice finish, he had to do something like 30 fingers.
> 
> Like David Best I also purchase the Haas face mill at his recommendation and went with the HS6NP in a 2.5", it uses their trigon type insert with 6 cutting edges and a DOC up to 0.3". I milled some 1018 CRS with it and the finish was like a mirror, I feel both finish and rate of material removal was better than my  APMT/APKT style. The Haas inserts are pretty massive in comparison traditional inserts.  If you are doing just steel and want deeper shouldering then the HRNP may be a better choice, there are 4 cutting edges, as these inserts can be both rotated and flipped. So an expensive up front investment but should last a very long time. They have a series of videos for each face mill that you can review. There are alternative brands, my older face mills are Iscar and Sandvik, they work great but often have proprietary inserts like the Octagons which can be quite expensive.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the studied reply.  A few follow up questions.  HAAS does not sell an R8 arbor and the arbor I have accepts bodies with 1" bores, not 3/4", so that is one additional expense.  I tried to find the SFM, all I found was some settings I don't understand, granted my head was wobbly at that point but should it be that hard to find SFM?  Looks like their bodies are designed for CNC where everything is set in parameters, I'm happily manual, no CNC.
I see alot of posts about how much tonnage (tongue in cheek) can be removed in a minute while I'd be happy to remove 0.100 inch (normally 0.050") in a single pass with nice finish.  Oh, about that IPM? huh? that's cranks per minute for me-yes, this is a crank post  

Alright, sarcasm aside, I've read plenty posts stating 45 deg face mills are easier on the mill, what does a 90 deg shoulder mill gain me on a 2 HP mill (with power feed!)?  Note, I already have a 2" indexable shoulder mill, takes APKT or something.  
Lastly, should I stick with a 2" over 2 1/2" for that geared 2 HP (max ~1800 rpm).


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## davidpbest (Aug 16, 2021)

macmccaskie said:


> Thanks for the studied reply.  A few follow up questions.  HAAS does not sell an R8 arbor and the arbor I have accepts bodies with 1" bores, not 3/4", so that is one additional expense.  I tried to find the SFM, all I found was some settings I don't understand, granted my head was wobbly at that point but should it be that hard to find SFM?  Looks like their bodies are designed for CNC where everything is set in parameters, I'm happily manual, no CNC.
> I see alot of posts about how much tonnage (tongue in cheek) can be removed in a minute while I'd be happy to remove 0.100 inch (normally 0.050") in a single pass with nice finish.  Oh, about that IPM? huh? that's cranks per minute for me-yes, this is a crank post



I don't think you looked hard enough on the Haas site:




Here is the link:



			https://www.haascnc.com/content/dam/haascnc/ecommerce-assets/speeds-and-feeds/hrnp_feeds_speeds.pdf
		


And this is what you'll get:




That chart has SFM and I/T for most matericals for each type of insert they sell.  Any decent Feed/Speed calculator (I use FSWizard on my iPhone) will give you IPM based on the tool configuration, the HP and RPM limits of your machine, etc.  Did you watch ANY of the _*videos I posted*_ that discuss these aspects?


macmccaskie said:


> Alright, sarcasm aside, I've read plenty posts stating 45 deg face mills are easier on the mill, what does a 90 deg shoulder mill gain me on a 2 HP mill (with power feed!)?


The ability to mill to a square shoulder.  I have APKT-style face mills in addition to the Haas - the Haas inserts are much more robust because they are considerably thicker as Mark said.


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## macmccaskie (Aug 16, 2021)

David, Ha! Ya caught me in the act.  I'll try to find those videos tonight, I can be rather instructive phobic sometimes.  To be clear, I have an indexable shoulder mill now and am not looking to replace it just yet.  Perhaps in the future after I've used up the inserts.

Ya, I see now, I tried to get to Speeds and Feeds by clicking on the Speeds And Feeds button on the mill head - not the insert, I'll blame my fuzzy late night vision.


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## mksj (Aug 16, 2021)

I recommended the square shoulder Haas because of the deeper cut and higher rate of material removal, but you can also go with a 45 degree shoulder type with the insert seat pocket more vertical as opposed to significantly positive. Also want to look at the number of cutting edges per insert as that will effect time before replacement/costs. You are limited by the rigidity and Hp, but you should be able to spin a 2.5" head w/o difficulty. The 833T (assuming gear head) should have plenty of power due to it's geared head) where the 833TV might have some more difficulty in steel. Aluminum you can definitely dial up both RPM and feed, and benefits from a more positive rake pocket. I was just impressed with the Haas in steel, the finish was great and very little vibration. The arbor for the face mill is a function of the size face mill, I have been using the Sowa shell arbors which are reasonably priced and well made. Please note that you may need to buy a different mounting bolt for the Haas face mills, as they use ones with a smaller bolt head then provided with the arbor. You could also use a rougher like a 3/4 or 7/8" and hog out a lot of material and then come back with a face mill for final finish.








						Sowa GS Shell Mill Holders
					

Sowa has developed a line of balanced CNC Shell Mill Holders manufactured with a modified standard drive slot to properly equalize the weight. This change in tool design enables GS Tooling to meet tolerance machine spindles are made to




					www.suncoasttools.com
				




There are a multitude of factors as to how a face mill will perform so one can generalize, but it does not account how an individual face mill will perform and the type of insert used. That being the case, I get very good finishes with all the different face mills I use, and part of this has to do with the design/accuracy of the head and the inserts. There have been a number of issues with some of the generic types having different insert heights with poor finish. I run a 4" face mill for final finishing and the inserts can be setup for either ferrous or non-ferrous materials, since they are positive rake they cannot be flipped, but have 8 cutting edges. DOC is probably limited to around 0.050", this is around 2800 RPM, feed of 10-12 IPM in 7075, mill is 3 Hp and not breaking a sweat. So there are a number of choices, they will all work reasonably well given you are not looking at maximum material removal rates.


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## macmccaskie (Aug 16, 2021)

mksj said:


> but you should be able to spin a 2.5" head w/o difficulty. The 833T (assuming gear head)


Thank you!  Yes, it is geared head so now I know what size.



mksj said:


> but you can also go with a 45 degree shoulder type with the insert seat pocket more vertical as opposed to significantly positive


Gak!  Please explain "insert seat pocket more vertical".  The I've got the concept of negative vs positive (and shear angle), but "insert seat pocket"?

I've seen those octo mill heads and wondered about them.  I get my end mills from Sun coast, thanks for the tip.


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## pontiac428 (Aug 16, 2021)

@mksj, the beams those LEDs cast make your mill table look like a disco.


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## mksj (Aug 17, 2021)

Think of the rake the same as you would have in the a lathe holder. A positive insert axial rake leans forward or in a lathe holder  up at its contact point and requires less Hp to cut but is also more fragile because it requires more relief behind the cutting edge. A neutral axial rake is vertical (or horizontal in a lathe), requires a bit more Hp, but is more durable and a negative axial rake angle leans back in a face mill or down at the cutting edge  in a lathe holder. The edge does not require any relief so can be flipped and also is very strong, but requires more Hp. The way that the chip forms and cuts is different, a negative rake needs to almost push or tear the material away which requires more rigidity and Hp. A negative rake insert pocket with an insert with a positive rake edge would give a better finish, but the cutting conditions DOC, RPM and SFM would be reduced. The Haas cutters mentioned have a vertical pocket which is often neutral or slightly forward, the inserts are quite large and the insert geometry is negative (I assume the pocket axial rake) to positive at the outer insert edge on some types. This allows you to flip the insert. If you review the different face mills on the Haas site they give a description of the properties, applications, and toolpath types. I would start out with the type of materials you plan to be using it on, the DOC required per path, if you plan to just surface or ramp into the work, surface finish characteristics and the cutting requirements. Then choose an insert type/coating that will operate in a range of materials and give a good surface finish.

You then get into the insert geometry which can also be positive, neutral or negative, chip breaker, coatings, molded vs. ground, etc. Generally there are guidance's with regard to the types of materials and cutting parameters. With face mills they typically tell you the application that they work in and the matching insert, granted it is not possible to run them anywhere near there specifications both in RPM and feed, so you are more interested in an all around performing head.

I surfaced the front and back 3" jaws on my vice with the Haas and the finish I would rate as very good with no ridges or cross cutting from the inserts. Yeah, disco lighting, only shows up when taking pictures. Between the back light bar and ring quill light I do not get any shadows on my work which use to drive me nuts (or more crazy).


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## davidpbest (Aug 17, 2021)

macmccaskie said:


> Thank you!  Yes, it is geared head so now I know what size.
> 
> 
> Gak!  Please explain "insert seat pocket more vertical".  The I've got the concept of negative vs positive (and shear angle), but "insert seat pocket"?
> ...


Here's a video that might help a bit understanding the rake angle Mark was mentioning (toward the end of the video).  This is the Haas 4" face mill with the octagon style inserts on 6061 aluminum.


__
		https://flic.kr/p/2kPkHJr

And this is the Haas 2" face mill that accepts their rectangular inserts that illustrates the difference is proportions of that insert compared to a standard APKT - they are much thicker and have slightly different rake geometry.  This particular insert is the version for stainless steel.


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## Brento (Aug 17, 2021)

Following bc i am also interested in finding a Face Mill that wont cost a fortune for my 8530 mill. Would like to also get like a 5/8 indexable EM as well


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## Ianagos (Aug 17, 2021)

macmccaskie said:


> I have PM833T mill (2 hp) and am starting to look at indexable face mills. I'll use it primarily on mild steel for stock removal and can switch to a fly cutter for finish work if needed. I'm waffling between the 2" to 3" sizes, and leaning toward odd number of flutes. The Glacern FM45-250 has been mentioned several times in the past and wondered if it's still a favored brand on this site or if I need to check out other makes. Thanks all.



I haven’t read the whole discussion but I will later. 

But I highly recommend a us company like maritool over an importer such as glacern.

Last I checked maritool facemills are not much more money but they are made in the US and the owner is a great guy.


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## macmccaskie (Aug 17, 2021)

David, mksj "Disco": Thanks all for the assistance, I was not planning on spending as much as I'm about to, but I'm about to order the 2.5" HS6NP and a pack a inserts, plus to sun coast for the arbor and figure out the bolt issue when it gets here.  I got to looking at the surface quality of those video's David's put out and started drooling.  It will probably replace the import 2" APTK mill I have.  I looked at the Glacern long enough to realize they don't publish any spec's, plus the unanswered email, and decided it wasn't for me.  Ha, I keep trying to remind myself I'm about to retire and need to stick with what toys I already have, but just can't - maybe there's a support group for that?

Those inserts are massive, and not really a too bad price for what they are.

again, thanks


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## mksj (Aug 18, 2021)

Great size face mill for your machine and with 5 cutters, 6 cutting edges and 2 sets in a box of ten you should be good for a long time. Love David's picture showing the insert comparison, the inserts are massive in comparison to other ones I have. Sometimes it is better to spend a bit more and buy once, than buy multiple times and never be quite happy with the results.

Make sure to get an arbor bolt.





						3/4" Arbor 3/8"-24 UNF Thread, Shell Mill Coolant Slot Arbor Screw
					






					www.haascnc.com


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## ttabbal (Aug 18, 2021)

I'm considering the  2.5" HS6NP as well on a Bridgeport. What insert type are you using most? I'd like to avoid stocking many types. I'll mostly be using this for squaring stock and finish passes. I usually work with mild steels like 1018 or 304 stainless and aluminum. I was considering the polished HN25 even though it's speced for aluminum. I figured the low hours I put on the tool would likely have them hold up well. 

Does the tool come with insert screws? I see HAAS sells them.


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## davidpbest (Aug 18, 2021)

ttabbal said:


> I'm considering the  2.5" HS6NP as well on a Bridgeport. What insert type are you using most? I'd like to avoid stocking many types. I'll mostly be using this for squaring stock and finish passes. I usually work with mild steels like 1018 or 304 stainless and aluminum. I was considering the polished HN25 even though it's speced for aluminum. I figured the low hours I put on the tool would likely have them hold up well.
> 
> Does the tool come with insert screws? I see HAAS sells them.


Yes, the Haas face mills come with insert screws.  I would not recommend using the inserts designated for aluminum on 304.  304 is a difficult material to begin with because it's so sticky and will work harden if you don't take aggressive enough cuts.   

Here is a video of the 2" face mill with rectangular inserts cutting 304 stainless using the HMP20 inserts designated for stainless.  RPM is 625, DOC is .187", WOC is 3/8".  Feed rates increase during the cut from 3 to 6 to 9, then 12 inches/minute.  Best results were at 12 IPM, but at this DOC and WOC, it was pushing the rigidity limits of my PM-935.


__
		https://flic.kr/p/2kBtvoF


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## Ianagos (Aug 18, 2021)

The haas face mills were great for $99 for the whole kit which a lot of us got them for.

For a low budget I still recommend a facemill from maritool as the inserts are a standard size and can be obtained from China for cheap. The haas facemills have nice thick inserts but I’ll tell you I’ve never broken an insert on one of the smaller I’ve only chipped the edge which I’ve also done on the haas facemill. 

The haas tools are just more expensive to run but not bad tools at all. They are also imported from China.

In my opinion the haas tooling are really meant for a large cnc. Here is a short video using haas recommended speeds and feeds. This is pushing about 10hp in spindle load on a 22hp machine with a 2:1 gearbox. That was really a light cut for what these tools are meant for I could easily take the same cut with a apkt facemill and appropriate inserts.

2” rectangular insert facemill







Edit if anybody needs some apkt face I’ll inserts for aluminum pm me. I can get you guys some lightly used name brand ones (we replace them early at a company I do work for)


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## macmccaskie (Aug 19, 2021)

Ianagos said:


> The haas face mills were great for $99 for the whole kit which a lot of us got them for.
> 
> For a low budget I still recommend a facemill from maritool as the inserts are a standard size and can be obtained from China for cheap. The haas facemills have nice thick inserts but I’ll tell you I’ve never broken an insert on one of the smaller I’ve only chipped the edge which I’ve also done on the haas facemill.



Thanks, you just saved me some cash.  I really was hesitant to go HAAS because they didn't really mention much about home shop machines much less cater to them - I don't blame them - there will be better business doing what they already do.  The other brands I checked were either WAY expensive or looked "import knock-off" with no mention of feeds and speeds,  at least the MariTool professes precision and the mill heads are branded - and appear to have versions and documentation.

If I came along at the right time to get the kit for $100 bucks I might be more inclined to take the risk.  FWIW: my cursory search for (steel) inserts didn't turn up anything exciting, except one guy sell used ones 8-0


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## poorboy (May 29, 2022)

mksj said:


> I recommended the square shoulder Haas because of the deeper cut and higher rate of material removal, but you can also go with a 45 degree shoulder type with the insert seat pocket more vertical as opposed to significantly positive. Also want to look at the number of cutting edges per insert as that will effect time before replacement/costs. You are limited by the rigidity and Hp, but you should be able to spin a 2.5" head w/o difficulty. The 833T (assuming gear head) should have plenty of power due to it's geared head) where the 833TV might have some more difficulty in steel. Aluminum you can definitely dial up both RPM and feed, and benefits from a more positive rake pocket. I was just impressed with the Haas in steel, the finish was great and very little vibration. The arbor for the face mill is a function of the size face mill, I have been using the Sowa shell arbors which are reasonably priced and well made. Please note that you may need to buy a different mounting bolt for the Haas face mills, as they use ones with a smaller bolt head then provided with the arbor. You could also use a rougher like a 3/4 or 7/8" and hog out a lot of material and then come back with a face mill for final finish.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



@mksj can you please let me know the part number of the R8 shell mill holder and arbor screw that you have used here (I am assuming that it is the HOP, 4" Diameter Shell Mill w/1-1/2" Pilot Bore) ?

Thank you

Adam


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## davidpbest (May 29, 2022)

poorboy said:


> @mksj can you please let me know the part number of the R8 shell mill holder and arbor screw that you have used here (I am assuming that it is the HOP, 4" Diameter Shell Mill w/1-1/2" Pilot Bore) ?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Adam


Details are in the attached document.  Mark and I both use the Sowa shell mill arbors.


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## poorboy (May 29, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> Details are in the attached document.  Mark and I both use the Sowa shell mill arbors.



Thank you David. One quick question - what about the arbor screw ? Will it come with the R8 arbor ? This is for the 4" face mill.


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## davidpbest (May 29, 2022)

The SOWA arbors do come with an arbor screw, but as my writeup says about the Haas face mills: “All versions except the 4" version require a custom sized arbor bolt available from Haas (shown with hot-link in the table below).”  I updated the tables in the writeup to have hot-links (blue underlined text) to each face mill and the SOWA arbor and the required arbor bolt if a special version is required.  Download the writeup again, then click on the blue hot-link and it will take you to the product page where you can see specs and purchase.


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## poorboy (May 29, 2022)

Thank you - I missed the part about "4" version do not require a custom sized arbor bolt available from Haas"

Adam


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## davidpbest (May 29, 2022)

poorboy said:


> Thank you - I missed the part about "4" version require a custom sized arbor bolt available from Haas"
> 
> Adam


The 4” versions do *NOT* require a special arbor bolt. The other smaller-sized face mills *DO* require the Haas specific bolt.


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## poorboy (May 29, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> The 4” versions do *NOT* require a special arbor bolt. The other smaller-sized face mills *DO* require the Haas specific bolt.


Yes I mis-typed .. corrected the original post now. Everything has now been ordered. Thank you for your help.


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