# What makes a drill chuck good or bad ?



## mmcmdl (Dec 7, 2019)

Other than run-out , what other considerations make a drill chuck good or bad ? Is an old Jacobs Hartford chuck any more better than a new Asian made Jacobs of the same # ? The prices of these chucks go from next to nothing upwards of $800 for unibody units . Are people out there concerned about run-out when mounting in the lathe tailstock ? What are your thoughts ?


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## Bob Korves (Dec 7, 2019)

mmcmdl said:


> Other than run-out , what other considerations make a drill chuck good or bad ? Is an old Jacobs Hartford chuck any more better than a new Asian made Jacobs of the same # ? The prices of these chucks go from next to nothing upwards of $800 for unibody units . Are people out there concerned about run-out when mounting in the lathe tailstock ? What are your thoughts ?


Easy to loosen and tighten to change out tooling.  Getting a good clamp on the drill with relatively light tightening of the chuck key or the shroud.  Drills are not made super accurately, and there will often be random runout with them chucked.  If you need a truly accurate hole, every time, use other tooling than a drill chuck.  Better chucks do the work better, faster, and with less fuss -- however, all will have runout but for the luck of the draw.  Still, better chucks give noticably better results.  Same goes for the drills and other tools used in the chucks.  The other side of the coin:  most holes do not need to be uber accurate, only fuss around when it is really necessary...


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## mikey (Dec 8, 2019)

I have a Jacobs US-made 14N Super Chuck for my lathe and drill press, something like 5 Albrechts and 2 Rohm keyless chucks and all are pretty accurate. I would say the Albrechts are the best, then Rohm, then Jacobs. The Jacobs is used only for larger drills; I can gronk down and tighten it so the drill doesn't slip but I admit that I don't use it much. I prefer MT-shanked drills in larger sizes so I got rid of my S&D set.

I will say that the older Hartford chucks are better made than even the newer US-made ones and they are much better quality than the Chinese-made Jacobs chucks. Jacobs is selling the Chinese-made ones for nearly the same price as the older US-made ones, even though the quality is not as good.

I agree with Bob that drill chuck run out is not as important as it is with other tool holding devices but the better quality chucks will still be more accurate than the cheap junk you can buy. If you put a ground pin in the Albrecht on my drill press and run it, you cannot visually see any run out - looks like its standing still. 

I think the best combination for a lathe chuck is to properly install a good arbor into a good drill chuck. I use an Albrecht arbor in my Albrecht chuck because it is the most accurate combination I could find. And besides, if an Albrecht chuck ever spins on an Albrecht arbor, Albrecht will replace them both for free, for life.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 8, 2019)

Mikey and Bob . I agree 100% and only ask because of all the threads stating I bought a new machine and the chuck is crap . I just wonder how they come to this conclusion .


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## mikey (Dec 8, 2019)

Yeah, I see that a lot, too. Thing is, the guys don't really figure in the fact that a drill bit is at the end of a big stack of tolerances. How do you say its the chuck unless you sort out exactly where the run out is coming from? They also don't say how they're determining run out; are they measuring it with a pin in a running chuck? If so, that is totally invalid because it tells you nothing.

My drill press has high quality bearings throughout. It has 0.0005" TIR of static run out. The Albrecht arbor has almost no additional run out and a precision pin held in the chuck shows 0.0005" TIR of static run out. That is real and it is accurately measured using a Compac 523LA dial indicator held in a 2-arm Noga indicator stand. Yeah, a drill press with low run out. BUT then I throw a drill in it and the run out increases significantly. As Bob pointed out and as we all know, drill bits are not precision tools and do not produce precision holes.

Albrecht claims run out of 0.002" TIR, or 0.001" actual run out. That seems to be a pretty accurate claim in my experience, as long as we don't add a drill into the mix.


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## Nogoingback (Dec 8, 2019)

mmcmdl said:


> Mikey and Bob . I agree 100% and only ask because of all the threads stating I bought a new machine and the chuck is crap . I just wonder how they come to this conclusion .




I had a crap chuck that came with my Jet drill press.  I have no idea what the TIR was because I never measured it, but 
after putting up with it for a number of years I finally binned it and replaced it with a quality chuck.  It's pretty obvious
when you try to use a really bad chuck: you can't drill accurate holes.  Night and day difference.


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## PT Doc (Dec 8, 2019)

2 things that are important are consistent ease of opening and closing jaws and ability to rebuild chuck if needed.


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## projectnut (Dec 8, 2019)

I have a number of chucks in the shop.  The newest is probably 25 years old or older.  The oldest are close to 100 years old.  I only have 4 brand names, Jacobs, Albrecht, Cushman, and Golden Goose.,  The Cushman's are the oldest in that they were inherited from my wife's grandfather.  I have both the keyed and keyless models.  The most prolific are the Jacobs, there are probably a dozen or more, all of which are the keyed models.  They range in age from 60+ years old to about 30 years old.  I have only 1 Albrecht, and that's a keyless model, probably from the 1980's.  The newest of the bunch are Golden Goose.  They were made in Taiwan in the late 1980's.  The Golden Goose were the least expensive at less than $100.00 per copy

All seem to work well.  The oldest have about .002 runout with the newest (Albrecht and Golden Goose having ales than .001 runout.  All the chucks are ball bearing models which minimizes the torque needed to properly tighten a drill.  It also minimizes the amount of wear done to the key holes in the body, the scroll, and the key itself.

I expected the quality of the Albrecht, Cushman's, and Jacobs in that they were all in the neighborhood of $300.00 to $400.00 new.  The rebuild kits for the Jacobs N18's still cost a little less than $200.00 today.  One of the clues as to whether or not a chuck is a higher quality model is the availability of a rebuild kit.  Lower price chucks are generally considered a consumable, and therefore not rebuildable. 

The quality of the Golden Goose chucks were a pleasant surprise.  At that price point 30 years ago I was expecting much less.  Unfortunately these chucks are no longer made.  In the late 1990's a company from mainland China started counterfeiting them, and were turning out far inferior products.  The company from Taiwan that was originally building them decided to stop production rather than compete with the counterfeits, and try to explain why there was such a difference in quality.

There are still some of the original Golden Goose chucks available from vendors and on eBay.  However I would be very cautious when looking for one.  If you can find one new in the box with a production date older than 1990 you can be relatively assured it's from the original manufacturer.  The older packaging was a black and red box like this:









						Golden Goose Drill Chuck Cap 13 M/m - #33jt Mount With Key for sale online | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Golden Goose Drill Chuck Cap 13 M/m - #33jt Mount With Key at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




The newer packaging is a yellow and green box.  These are the ones of suspicious quality.



			golden Goose drill chuck - Google Search
		

:


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## ats1911 (Dec 10, 2019)

The issue I’ve had with the crappy chuck that came with my PM932 isn’t runout, which I haven’t even checked. The problem is that it won’t hold even moderate size drill bits without slippage.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 10, 2019)

I've got a 5/8 capacity Albreght going out tomorrow .


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## pontiac428 (Dec 10, 2019)

mmcmdl said:


> I've got a 5/8 capacity Albreght going out tomorrow .



I hope that's an Albrecht, not one of the HF "Albreght" chucks....


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## mmcmdl (Dec 10, 2019)

pontiac428 said:


> I hope that's an Albrecht, not one of the HF "Albreght" chucks....



LOL , no , it's the real deal . Mounted on a Lyndex arbor . I wouldn't put a Lyndex on ANYTHING HF !


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## pontiac428 (Dec 10, 2019)

Ahh, I love Albrecht chucks!  Two things I care about- concentricity and repeatability.  Albrecht offers both in one package, those sly devils.


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## darkzero (Dec 10, 2019)

mmcmdl said:


> I've got a 5/8 capacity Albreght going out tomorrow .



Awesome, I'll be sure to check the mail in a few days!


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## mikey (Dec 10, 2019)

darkzero said:


> Awesome, I'll be sure to check the mail in a few days!



Is this going to be your first Albrecht, Will? If so, let us know what you think.


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## darkzero (Dec 10, 2019)

mikey said:


> Is this going to be your first Albrecht, Will? If so, let us know what you think.



Lol, nah, was just having fun. But someday! I'll check the mail anyway, just in case.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 10, 2019)

I'm widdling the chucks down , just catching up to all the past due the messages .


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## ats1911 (Dec 10, 2019)

mmcmdl said:


> I've got a 5/8 capacity Albreght going out tomorrow .



What, are you telling me the big Jacobs is inferior?    Somehow I think that baby’s going to have plenty of bite and should do nicely.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 10, 2019)

ats1911 said:


> What, are you telling me the big Jacobs is inferior?  Somehow I think that baby’s going to have plenty of bite and should do nicely.



Lol , that big USA Jacobs will handle anything you throw at it . Some people like keyless over keyed or vise a versa . There is an indicator here just waiting on you . I'll stock in a box or ship it when you're ready .


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## ats1911 (Dec 10, 2019)

Yup. I think I’ll pull the Chinese one apart and see if I can figure out why it won’t grip worth a hoot. Heck, the chuck on my Bosch cordless drill grips better. 

If you don’t mind, please hang on to the indicator for a bit. I’m sure you’ll have other goodies to put in the box with it.


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## Tim9 (Dec 13, 2019)

Most of my Jacobs are old USA built and I had to rebuild a few of them. They are all very serviceable now but some were pretty worn before I rebuilt them. I really haven’t put a gauge on them but that’s because I haven’t noticed any excessive runout. These are matched to various MT 2 and MT3 arbors for use in lathe tailstocks. I also have a couple of Jacobs #0 chucks with 1/2” arbors for drilling very small bits. I just chuck these in a 1/2 collet or another Jacobs set into a tailstock. I tend to leave various size bits so it’s quicker when I need to spot drill and then drill bigger holes. No fumbling with chuck keys most of the time.
  Also have a couple of Albrecht 5/16” capacity chucks matched to 1/2” arbors. I do love Albrecht chucks but just can’t afford buy new Jacobs let alone a new Albrecht. Almost every chuck I have came from EBay. Some of the Albrechts needed new jaws which also were sourced off of EBa. If one is patient, it’s not too hard to source a rebuildable quality drill chuck and then patiently source a matched rebuild kit from EBay. They both show up all the time on EBay. I’m pretty sure that I have a total cost  of @ 75.00 or less for each of my Albrechts. And now they are all as good as new. Even Albrechts can be had for a reasonable cost if the jaws suck. It just takes some time and investigation to get it all together.  
I could never justify 300.00 to 400.00 for a new chuck. But now I must have 4 of them and they are perfect In my opinion.... other than cosmetic. Like maybe someone put a pair of pliers to the knurled housing. 
   Anyway.... that’s my rant. I just like to have a bunch of chucks and FWIW... I did buy just one keyless Chinese chuck. It’s crap and everything chucked into it slips. Just crap in my opinion.


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## brino (Dec 13, 2019)

Tim9 said:


> I tend to leave various size bits so it’s quicker when I need to spot drill and then drill bigger holes. No fumbling with chuck keys most of the time.



There is a joke that Norm Abrams doesn't change bits, he just changes routers.
But I see the logic to having dedicated chucks for the top 2-3 used drills.

-brino


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## markba633csi (Dec 13, 2019)

That goose looks like a pelican to me
Can't they get their waterfowl straight?


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## projectnut (Dec 13, 2019)

markba633csi said:


> That goose looks like a pelican to me
> Can't they get their waterfowl straight?



It's the Taiwanese version of a goose, but then again it looks lie a pelican to me as well.  The nice thing is the ones I have work fine and have done so for nearly 30 years.


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## markba633csi (Dec 13, 2019)

What about the goose chucks in the white and red box seen on ebay? Are they goodies or baddies?


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## projectnut (Dec 14, 2019)

markba633csi said:


> What about the goose chucks in the white and red box seen on ebay? Are they goodies or baddies?



I've not seen, and I am not aware of any Golden Goose chucks in a red and white box anywhere including on eBay.   The older ones currently on eBay are red and black with some white writing.  Some of those on eBay have boxes that are worn and damaged enough that there appears to be some white on them, but the original packaging is as I just described.  I also posted a link to an older style in my previous post.  It's the top link.









						Golden Goose Drill Chuck Cap 13 M/m - #33jt Mount With Key for sale online | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Golden Goose Drill Chuck Cap 13 M/m - #33jt Mount With Key at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


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## markba633csi (Dec 14, 2019)

That's odd, it's not there now. Must have been just the one and it sold. It was a white box with red lettering and it had the pelican on it
I think it was a larger chuck like 16mm


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## ddickey (Dec 14, 2019)

Good: Made in USA, Germany, Spain or Taiwan.
What makes a bad chuck: Made in Commie China.
End of discussion. 
LOL


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## Bob Korves (Dec 14, 2019)

A proper test is worth hundreds of hobby machinist opinions.  Of course, it is difficult to do a proper check before you buy a chuck, so luck of the draw also comes strongly into play.  Pretty does not necessarily mean accurate, and ugly does not necessarily mean useless...


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## projectnut (Dec 14, 2019)

markba633csi said:


> That's odd, it's not there now. Must have been just the one and it sold. It was a white box with red lettering and it had the pelican on it
> I think it was a larger chuck like 16mm



There was a 16mm chuck sold on the 11th.  The box was turned so the writing on the top was visible.  The writing is white on a black backgrpound.  This is an the older chuck









						Golden Goose JT3 1-16mm Keyed Drill Chuck, New Complete   | eBay
					

Condition is new never used.



					www.ebay.com


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