# Atlas 101.21400 used w/accessories, $1,500, plan to buy... thoughts?



## skcncx (May 2, 2022)

So, I believe I have found the lathe for me... right size, condition and several extras, appears to be in great condition by someone who took care of it..  *let me know your thoughts and any tips for my first lathe.. $1500, maybe high, but all the extras and condition seems like a reasonable deal*.  

Would like digital DROs and variable speed motor on newer stuff, considered a Micro Lux 7 x 16, even a Taig (they are likely just a bit too small for me to grown into) but I think this is a great option to start on and turn some nice parts.  Aluminum and plastics is all I really care about, maybe steel.

*Craftsman (aka Atlas) 618 Model 101.21400  (Serial 0173XX)

Comes with *3 jaw chuck, 4 jaw chuck, Faceplate, Steady Rest, Quick change tool holder, Live centers / dead centers, Indexable threading tools, Boring bars, Change gears, Indexable cutting bits, Micrometer carriage stop, 3 tail stock chucks, Manual, extra lead screws, cross feed screws, saddle screw, misc carriage parts, possibly MT2 collet holder (not sure what collet size, I'd assume ER25 or ER30).

*Condition/History/Price *$1500...one owner since new, used as hobby, lathe rebuilt with new roller bearings.  Owner seems to really have cared for it.  Pics seems to confirm great condition.... planning to take a look and pick up soon.   

I know next to nothing about lathes but have read a lot to land on what I think is good for me and understanding the overall capabilities of this model.

*Not sure about*
- Do these have zero resettable dials?
- Is the cross feed powered?  (My neighbors larger 12" version does)
- Headstock nose is 1" x 10 TPI with MT2 taper... is that common or can easily find adapters and collet holders?
- Doesn't come with milling attachment, will look for one.


*Any tips, tricks, accessories I should care about, things stay away from, etc...*


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## JPMacG (May 2, 2022)

The steady rest and micrometer stop are valuable accessories.  Combined they would go for maybe $300 on eBay. The collet holder is a very nice thing to have - provided its runout is good.

I'd check for bed wear and make sure the spindle runs true.  Otherwise it seems like a decent deal.

The milling accessory is of limited use and they are costly.  I would save the money toward a milling machine.


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## skcncx (May 2, 2022)

JPMacG said:


> The steady rest and micrometer stop are valuable accessories.  Combined they would go for maybe $300 on eBay. The collet holder is a very nice thing to have - provided its runout is good.
> 
> I'd check for bed wear and make sure the spindle runs true.  Otherwise it seems like a decent deal.
> 
> The milling accessory is of limited use and they are costly.  I would save the money toward a milling machine.


Thanks for the input!  Excited to pick this up and start the learning process.  There's a lot I don't know.

The seller said the same thing about the milling attachment.  I'm hoping the collet adapter is an ER32... if not, I know I can even get an ER40 spin on collet adapter to fit the 1" 10 TPI.

*What is largest diameter and length that is is reasonable for the 618 model? For aluminum (6061 or 6063 series aluminum).*

I understand you are generally about half of the capacity limits.  I'm not entirely sure what the throw is above the carriage. I'll likely want to do 1/2" to 1" diameter stuff the most, 2" - 10" lengths.


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## cross thread (May 2, 2022)

Hi skcncx , high yes but it's clean and ready to go . The dials have a resettable set screw (cross feed and compound) , longitude no .  I have a very old 101.07301 the dials on it are very hard to read , I think the machine you are looking at is better for reading . I like to hook up an travel indicator .
Cross feed power , no .
Head stock spindle 1"-10 is good , mine is 1"-8 and that limits you somewhat . 
JPMacG is right the milling attachment is limited and to buy one outright probably 250-300 . However they are useful and I love mine , if you are limited on space they are especially nice .
Good luck on getting that machine and keep us posted .
Mark .


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## skcncx (May 2, 2022)

cross thread said:


> Hi skcncx , high yes but it's clean and ready to go . The dials have a resettable set screw (cross feed and compound) , longitude no .  I have a very old 101.07301 the dials on it are very hard to read , I think the machine you are looking at is better for reading . I like to hook up an travel indicator .
> Cross feed power , no .
> Head stock spindle 1"-10 is good , mine is 1"-8 and that limits you somewhat .
> JPMacG is right the milling attachment is limited and to buy one outright probably 250-300 . However they are useful and I love mine , if you are limited on space they are especially nice .
> ...


Thanks!  The seller of this seems like the person you want to buy used stuff from... so I feel good about his price but I really know nothing either... he plans to throw in a magnetic base with 2" throw dial and a 1" indicator for the saddle travel so that's my solution to start.... I'll care about those high precision parts once I get comfortable just turning some metal and getting the feel of it.


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## cross thread (May 2, 2022)

You are welcome , I forgot to mention the things that make your machine even more worth the 1,500 . is all the lead screws . Those are probably the old ones so that means you have newer ones .
As for the limitations of the size stock you can fit on the lathe , first the through hole is 17/32 . That does not limit you to chuck up larger diameters and longer lengths , you have the steady rest . Speeds and feeds differ from different machines but there is a formula , rule of thumb larger diameters require slower speed and feed . You will get the feel , I would start off with Aluminum / Delrin.
Mark .


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## skcncx (May 2, 2022)

cross thread said:


> You are welcome , I forgot to mention the things that make your machine even more worth the 1,500 . is all the lead screws . Those are probably the old ones so that means you have newer ones .
> As for the limitations of the size stock you can fit on the lathe , first the through hole is 17/32 . That does not limit you to chuck up larger diameters and longer lengths , you have the steady rest . Speeds and feeds differ from different machines but there is a formula , rule of thumb larger diameters require slower speed and feed . You will get the feel , I would start off with Aluminum / Delrin.
> Mark .



I figure, all that stuff adds up and I like having the extra parts and accessories available from the get go if needed, especially for older stuff... if anything, it tells me a little bit about the previous owner... well cared for.

*I did read about the 17/32 through hole... that's one thing I liked about the Taig 5C head stock, a large through hole... but everything else was seemingly too small* and didn't really look at that specs on the seig based 7 x 16 lathes.  But for some reason I'm just as comfortable jumping in the game with the much older atlas 618 type.  Not sure even how much the through hole is critical for my various projects, some of which are yet to be determined.  *I want a big and full featured lathe in a small table top package... trade offs everywhere.*

The listing I'm buying seems to be a great starter package with all the tooling and cutters and basics... even it it doesn't have all the digital stuff and variable speed drives which was clearly not needed for many years... I'll get by.  Just learning to feel, see and year the cutting there's lots gain experience on and build up my skills.

A lot of my decision and research is all speculation... just have to get something and try it to really know what all I'll make and if it's all I'll ever need or sell and upgrade.


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## mattthemuppet2 (May 2, 2022)

I had one similar to this for 5-6 years. It was a good lathe, did bigger work than its size would suggest, but I was very glad to trade up to a South Bend heavy 9. I was getting frustrated with my 618, even after doing ALOT of mods to it (poly-V spindle pulley, variable speed DC motor, digital readouts). It was pretty cramped, tail stock travel and reach was pretty miserable leading to lots of time consuming contortions to use a center to turn stuff, anything over 3/4" diameter took a long time to work with. The through spindle hole was pretty limiting too, had to either saw stock short or use the steady rest all the time. Don't get me wrong, I did alot of good work on that lathe and for small stuff (1/2" or less) it was a dream, but I'm glad I have the SB every time I use it.

Personally I think the price is pretty high. I sold mine for $1k with way more tooling than that but no milling attachment. I'd rather spend $1.5k on a crusty SB9a any day of the week than a sparkly mint 618.


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## mickri (May 3, 2022)

Welcome to the forum.  Don't be afraid to ask any question no matter how trivial you may think it is.  We are a very friendly bunch.  There are a lot of really knowledgeable people on this site that will bend over backwards to help you out.  You should consider making a donation so you can access the downloads section.  Cost is nominal and it will be money well spent.

The big plus with that lathe is that it has had only one owner and was used as a hobby lathe.  Not in a production shop.  So that lathe should be in excellent condition with little wear.  The tooling that is included is all of the important stuff.  You won't  have to buy anything other than consumables to start using that lathe.  I would not be concerned about the small thru hole.  The bed looks long enough to turn longer stuff between centers.  Or supported in the steady rest.

You are going to have to learn how to grind HSS tool bits.  Mikeys thread in the beginner forum on grinding tool bits is a must read.  Get yourself a belt sander and you will be good to go on grinding tool bits.

As for learning how to machine IMHO there is none better than Mr. Pete aka Tubalcain.  He is a retired high school shop teacher and knows how to teach.  https://www.youtube.com/c/mrpete222/videos  You will not regret spending time watching his videos.  Once you have gotten your feet wet there are other good videos that will help with finer points and tips on how to do some stuff.  Learn the basics from Mr. Pete first.

Have fun with your new lathe.


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## wa5cab (May 3, 2022)

One question that you asked earlier that I don't believe was ever answered was what is the rated swing over carriage.  According to all of the Atlas and Craftsman catalogs, that figure is 3-1/2".

Otherwise, I generally agree with the various comments.  Except for the one about having to learn how to grind HSS turning tools.  You probably should, as it is generally the less expensive way to go.  But you can also do as I got into the habit of doing starting back in 1981 and mostly use carbide tooling.  It just costs more.    And the 618 (or Craftsman equivalent) isn't really large or heavy enough to take advantage of some of the benefits of carbide.


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## skcncx (May 3, 2022)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> I had one similar to this for 5-6 years. It was a good lathe, did bigger work than its size would suggest, but I was very glad to trade up to a South Bend heavy 9. I was getting frustrated with my 618, even after doing ALOT of mods to it (poly-V spindle pulley, variable speed DC motor, digital readouts). It was pretty cramped, tail stock travel and reach was pretty miserable leading to lots of time consuming contortions to use a center to turn stuff, anything over 3/4" diameter took a long time to work with. The through spindle hole was pretty limiting too, had to either saw stock short or use the steady rest all the time. Don't get me wrong, I did alot of good work on that lathe and for small stuff (1/2" or less) it was a dream, but I'm glad I have the SB every time I use it.
> 
> Personally I think the price is pretty high. I sold mine for $1k with way more tooling than that but no milling attachment. I'd rather spend $1.5k on a crusty SB9a any day of the week than a sparkly mint 618.


Thanks for the input!  I was thinking about the Taig Micro lathe... so this is a step up in size, ha.... now that would have been cramped.  In my position, I think I have to prefer a more turn-key package vs a bring it back to live SB or more commercial built lathe.... then when I know a bit more, a little rougher but better bones machine probably would be ideal.  I may actually call on an ad for a MyFord Super 7, that seems to be inline with the SB9 and heavier duty lathes but it needs a little work and virtually no tooling and they are asking $3k... now that seems high but, that may be a great offer.... it's not like these pop up all the time..


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## skcncx (May 3, 2022)

mickri and wa5cab... thanks for feedback.  I figured with aluminum, HSS would be great and I do have a grinder and belt sander to try out sharpening and shaping my own bits.  Though, I think some carbide is coming with it.  I'll check out Mikeys threads on grinding tool bits.

Like many others on the net, I've already landed on Mr. Pete aka Tubalcain youtube channel many times... it's been a great way to explore this and learn until I get the lathe in front of me.

I'm gonna make one last call on a MyFord Super 7 ad, nearly no tooling other than a chuck and more crusty and around the $3,000... it seems like this MyFord Super 7 is in a different class than the Atlas 618... but I think the Atlas is more up my alley at this time in my lathe adventure.


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## cross thread (May 3, 2022)

The MyFord Super 7 is a flat bed way machine , just like all Atlas machines . All South Bends are "V" bed way machines , arguably a "V" bed machine is more precision and heavy duty , but on the other hand a Warner Swasey is a flat bed way machine and it doesn't get much more heavy duty than that .
On your 618 the distance above the cross slide is 2" , that is called "swing" . Swing is the distance above saddle or bed , X's 2 .
Mark .


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## Aaron_W (May 3, 2022)

Around here (Northern California) $1500 is sky high, but you can almost always find at least one 6" Atlas / Craftsman lathe on CL at any time. Most seem to sell within a week or two at $500-600, but those are usually needing a bit of work, and with minimal tooling. Better condition / well tooled ones also turn up in that price range but they usually sell much faster at that price.
I picked up a well tooled 101.21400 last year for $650, but it did require a lot of clean up. In good condition but it had been sitting for a long time and a lot of parts were seized up with old dried up oil which required a tear down and cleaning.

After I bought mine I watched another that appeared to be in good shape, with lots of tooling and a decent home built bench sit for a couple months. Started at $1200, and week by week the price dropped by $100. It finally went away after it got to $800.
There is one now asking $1200, minimal tooling but has an original cast iron and wood stand, the listing is 21 days old.

Location makes a big difference on price. As I said these are not hard to find around here which keeps the price down. There is also the SB9 Matt mentioned. These also turn up quite often in the $1000-2000 range, which I think holds down the price on the 6". Once you break $1000 I think a lot of people start to consider a basic tooled 9" vs a well tooled 6".

If I were starting from scratch with a budget in the $1500 range I'd be putting a lot of effort into finding a short bed South Bend 9A. In my opinion a 9x17" or 9x22" 9A is probably one of the best common options for a space constrained shop. Heavier, but not a great deal larger than an Atlas 6", or Chinese 7x16" mini lathe. A well optioned small lathe with quick change gear box, and power cross feed. There are even better lathes in this class but much less common. A Myford 7 with quick change gear box would also be on my short list, but the few I've seen go for a fair bit of money and in the US parts will not be plentiful, but Myford is still in business.


Back to your Craftsman, they are not bad small lathes, and I think preferable to many of the cheaper small lathes. Your local market will play a huge part in what is a good price. The fact that this one seems to have had a good life and a proper refurbishment (not just a clean and paint job) and is basically take it home and go to work is worth something.
If this is simply a buy it to learn and then resell in a year or two I'd pass, because it will be hard to even break even if you sell it. If you are pretty sure this is going to fit your needs and will be with you for sometime, then the price is less important. So you over pay by $500, divide that by 10 years of enjoyment and it becomes trivial.

Yes you may find you need a larger lathe down the road, but there is no rule that you can only have one lathe and in fact it is quite common to have two or more (although 9 might be bordering on mental illness    ).


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## skcncx (May 3, 2022)

Aaron_W said:


> Around here (Northern California) $1500 is sky high, but you can almost always find at least one 6" Atlas / Craftsman lathe on CL at any time. Most seem to sell within a week or two at $500-600, but those are usually needing a bit of work, and with minimal tooling. Better condition / well tooled ones also turn up in that price range but they usually sell much faster at that price.
> I picked up a well tooled 101.21400 last year for $650, but it did require a lot of clean up. In good condition but it had been sitting for a long time and a lot of parts were seized up with old dried up oil which required a tear down and cleaning.
> 
> After I bought mine I watched another that appeared to be in good shape, with lots of tooling and a decent home built bench sit for a couple months. Started at $1200, and week by week the price dropped by $100. It finally went away after it got to $800.
> ...



Good input!  Can't say I have watched the market here in Ohio for good old used lathes, but they don't seem that common as your area, certainly not in turn-key pristine condition for sure.  This one appears to have been maintained over the years, not needing a full refurbish for whatever that's worth. If I had to spend 10+ hours refurbishing something... that's worth $ to me... a refurb/restore would be fun if I had a lot more time.

I have contemplated flip flopping and looking harder at the LMS HiTorque 7x16 Deluxe or even the 8.5x20 version (that's about as big space wise as I want to go and double what I care to spend.  I don't want a fixer upper, having something that is relatively common (even if older) is valuable... so MyFord's out out after reading a bit.  The LMS 7 x 16 deluxe would be $2,400 to my door with very limited tooling.  I know I can always grow into spending more on tooling... all at once is nice, but not critical.  My budget = best bank for the buck and something soon.

The Taig Micro Lathe is what got me started, a fully spec'd with all their options and the 5C head stock was around $1400... so that began my search into other bench top lathes with a foot print up to 24" x 48".  Landed on the Atlas 618 style and seems like a great size for me.

I don't know how much the 6" vs 9" swing size matters for what I want to do.  A usable length up to 10" usable and 3" swing is all I really need... but I do want something that is of quality.... and I really don't know what I'll be missing by not having a dial turn variable speed motor, digital read outs and or quick change gear box.

Plus I'm itching to buy... which does not favor the pocket book to wait for those rare deals.  At least, the seller in the one I plan to pick up tomorrow will be on the good end of the deal and he'll have a good day!


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## Aaron_W (May 3, 2022)

skcncx said:


> Good input!  Can't say I have watched the market here in Ohio for good old used lathes, but they don't seem that common as your area, certainly not in turn-key pristine condition for sure.  This one appears to have been maintained over the years, not needing a full refurbish for whatever that's worth. If I had to spend 10+ hours refurbishing something... that's worth $ to me... a refurb/restore would be fun if I had a lot more time.
> 
> I have contemplated flip flopping and looking harder at the LMS HiTorque 7x16 Deluxe or even the 8.5x20 version (that's about as big space wise as I want to go and double what I care to spend.  I don't want a fixer upper, having something that is relatively common (even if older) is valuable... so MyFord's out out after reading a bit.  The LMS 7 x 16 deluxe would be $2,400 to my door with very limited tooling.  I know I can always grow into spending more on tooling... all at once is nice, but not critical.  My budget = best bank for the buck and something soon.
> 
> ...



There is something to be said for buying a machine that you can just bring home and get to work. That is what sold me on Sherline. I was only looking for a small lathe to turn parts for models, so 1-1/4" diameter and a few inches long would be on the large end. Sherline have a reputation for very good take it out of the box and be turning metal in a couple hours, they also have an extensive range of accessories. At the time a well tooled Sherline was considerably more expensive than a 7x14 mini-lathe.

The Sherline has been perfect for my initial needs, the problem came when machining turned into a hobby of its own rather than the lathe just being a tool supporting another hobby. That little lathe still gets a lot of use, I just added larger machines to tackle the larger projects I became interested in. The Sherline not only continues to be used for my original intent but it is very well tooled so I can often go back to it for small parts instead of buying new specialty tooling for one of the larger machines.

A side effect of all of this has been developing a third hobby, that of small machine tool rescue. I should probably start to consider a catch and release program, but I'm not there yet, I still have a bit of space left in the shop.  


The Atlas / Craftsman lathes came out in the late 1930s and still retain a great deal of popularity 80 years later. As long as it is big enough to support your projects it should work fine for you. Buying a used machine often does mean spending some time getting it ready to go. Nothing wrong with paying a premium for a ready to run lathe if your time is of more value than a few hundred dollars, everybody has different priorities.

If you do find like I did your projects increase in size then when that time comes you will be looking for a bigger lathe from a much better place. The Craftsman lathes don't take up much space and you would not be the first to discover a small lathe complements a larger lathe quite nicely.


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## skcncx (May 3, 2022)

Aaron_W said:


> There is something to be said for buying a machine that you can just bring home and get to work. That is what sold me on Sherline. I was only looking for a small lathe to turn parts for models, so 1-1/4" diameter and a few inches long would be on the large end. Sherline have a reputation for very good take it out of the box and be turning metal in a couple hours, they also have an extensive range of accessories. At the time a well tooled Sherline was considerably more expensive than a 7x14 mini-lathe.
> 
> The Sherline has been perfect for my initial needs, the problem came when machining turned into a hobby of its own rather than the lathe just being a tool supporting another hobby. That little lathe still gets a lot of use, I just added larger machines to tackle the larger projects I became interested in. The Sherline not only continues to be used for my original intent but it is very well tooled so I can often go back to it for small parts instead of buying new specialty tooling for one of the larger machines.
> 
> ...


I considered the Taig and Sherline and all their tooling...top notch for the micro lathe category.  I really like the simplicity of the Taig micro lathe. If they were just a bit longer on the center to center I would have gone that route already and not broadened my search.  Probably what i'll say about the 618... I just wish I was a bit longer, etc....  Looking forward to some tweaking and setup time just getting familiar with the atlas 618 controls... part of the fun.

If I spend a lot to have a heavy duty lathe, I'll end up making small parts, if I get small lathe, I'll only have the need/want to make large parts... seems about 50/50 when I speculate what I need.  Never thought I needed a band saw in my woodworking shop, bought a small one and wondered how I got by so long without one, can't believe how useful it is, especially now I'm getting into metal working... bought a huge dust collector, sold it and much happier with a high performance and much smaller high pressure vacuum, smaller hoses, etc...


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## wa5cab (May 3, 2022)

Minor correction to an earlier statement - The first Atlas lathe, which was also sold for a few years by Sears, was the 9" that first came out in early 1932.  It eventually came in four different bed lengths, 9 x 18 through 9 x 36.  With some overlap, It was replaced by the 10" (1935) under the Atlas badge and 12" (1936) sold by Sears under the Craftsman badge.  The 618 (and the short-lived 612) came out in 1937 and remained in production with relatively few changes until about 1972.

I once for many years ran the Engineering Department of an NDT company and have always considered tooling as mostly being consumables.  And don't usually consider it as having much effect on price on the used equipment market.  Things like chucks, milling attachments, collet attachments and/or sets, steady and center rests, taper attachments. etc. I would call generically accessories.  Typical going prices for most Atlas or Craftsman 6" accessories are in the $100 to $150 range.  So in round numbers, subtract $100 or so for each accessory being included in a deal and you have the effective asking price of the lathe by itself. 

And I would not consider the Atlas 618 (or Craftsman 101.21400) or any other 6" or 7" swing machine in the same breath with any 9" to 12" machine.  If you need one, the other would most likely be unsuitable for you (or unnecessarily expensive.).
Another thing to be considered is the type of spindle bearing.  The four choices are usually babbit, oilite,  ball or tapered roller.  All four are technically replaceable.   But few of us have either the equipment or the ability required to properly replace babbit bearings.


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## skcncx (May 3, 2022)

wa5cab said:


> Minor correction to an earlier statement - The first Atlas lathe, which was also sold for a few years by Sears, was the 9" that first came out in early 1932.  It eventually came in four different bed lengths, 9 x 18 through 9 x 36.  With some overlap, It was replaced by the 10" (1935) under the Atlas badge and 12" (1936) sold by Sears under the Craftsman badge.  The 618 (and the short-lived 612) came out in 1937 and remained in production with relatively few changes until about 1972.
> 
> I once for many years ran the Engineering Department of an NDT company and have always considered tooling as mostly being consumables.  And don't usually consider it as having much effect on price on the used equipment market.  Things like chucks, milling attachments, collet attachments and/or sets, steady and center rests, taper attachments. etc. I would call generically accessories.  Typical going prices for most Atlas or Craftsman 6" accessories are in the $100 to $150 range.  So in round numbers, subtract $100 or so for each accessory being included in a deal and you have the effective asking price of the lathe by itself.
> 
> ...


So a $1500 Craftsman 101.21400 w/Timken bearings (assuming pristine condition) isn't SO crazy high considering it comes with.. (pics show some items).

- 3 jaw chuck
- 4 jaw chuck
- face plate
- steady rest
- 0XA quick change too holder (9 holders)
- live center
- dead center
- boring bars
- micro meter carriage stop
- 3 tail stock chuck (I only need 1)
- Extra lead screw, cross feed screw and saddle screw
- Extra gears
- Way and shaft oils
- Nearly new reamers (not sure how many or what)
- ER collet holder for MT2 taper and draw bar
- And... some extra bar stock and measuring devices like magnet 2" dial throw, 2" to 6" import micrometers, universal pitch mic
- 
Though, he does say it was rebuilt with roller bearings.. I'll ask if those were timken roller bearings I assume the would have to be.

But then I look at the LMS HiTorque 8.5x20 Bench Lathe, Deluxe but TWICE the price and wonder how cool... or wow, I spend double and it didn't really gain me anything.

Separating my $ from my wallet is quite the phycological event... as much as I want to spend it, I don't.  First and foremost, I want to ensure as much as possible it's a good purchase, or steer away from the road to frustration.

Everyone chiming in has been SUPER helpful, thanks all!


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## skcncx (May 3, 2022)

wa5cab said:


> Minor correction to an earlier statement - The first Atlas lathe, which was also sold for a few years by Sears, was the 9" that first came out in early 1932.  It eventually came in four different bed lengths, 9 x 18 through 9 x 36.  With some overlap, It was replaced by the 10" (1935) under the Atlas badge and 12" (1936) sold by Sears under the Craftsman badge.  The 618 (and the short-lived 612) came out in 1937 and remained in production with relatively few changes until about 1972.
> 
> I once for many years ran the Engineering Department of an NDT company and have always considered tooling as mostly being consumables.  And don't usually consider it as having much effect on price on the used equipment market.  Things like chucks, milling attachments, collet attachments and/or sets, steady and center rests, taper attachments. etc. I would call generically accessories.  Typical going prices for most Atlas or Craftsman 6" accessories are in the $100 to $150 range.  So in round numbers, subtract $100 or so for each accessory being included in a deal and you have the effective asking price of the lathe by itself.
> 
> ...


"Tooling" vs "Accessories"... starting to pick up on the terminology and vernacular of lathe speak.

I know the tooling and accessories can cost more than the lathe...but it sill seems like having a solid foundation to build around and accessorize is critical the lathe itself.  Then how all that can transfer to another lathe depending on spindle nose thread, which MT tapers are in head and tail stocks.... or maybe if you upgrade ,you likely can carry over much tooling.


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## wa5cab (May 3, 2022)

Well, some of the items on your list probably have a lower than $100 average used price.  And I would probably only count one of anything on the list that there is more than one of.  And don't count anything that you don't think you will ever use unless you think that you can fairly easily re-sell it.  But that is the only way to fairly compare this offering to any other.  Including new.

Also, I meant to mention earlier that one of the tailstock chucks has the correct type of arbor and another one still has the tang on it.  If that happens to be the chuck that you want to use in the tailstock, I would cut the tang off and grind it flat to match the length of the tang-less one.  You will gain about 3/8" of usable ram travel.  Otherwise, only use the tanged one in the drill press.  And/or re-sell it.


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## skcncx (May 4, 2022)

Just for my reference... what's a reasonable depth of cut on aluminum for the Atlas 618?  Is a .015 (1/64th) reasonable and inline with this thing?  No prior experience, so that may be way too deep of a single cut.


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## mmcmdl (May 4, 2022)

For a reference , there was a 618 up at Cabin Fever in excellant shape , I mean it looked brand new . A bit of tooling came with it , not much . It did not move at $450 . I should've picked it up because I stared at it for at least an hour .   I thought it was a great little lathe for the price . If you do a Cabin Fever search you'll see the pics of the lathe , and good luck with yours also . I think they're cool .


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## Doug Gray (May 4, 2022)

Just my 2 cents based on original post.

You _will_ wish you had a lead screw gearbox as opposed to change gears.
you _will _want to work with steel
However any lathe is better than no lathe


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## francist (May 4, 2022)

skcncx said:


> Just for my reference... what's a reasonable depth of cut on aluminum for the Atlas 618?


0.015” is easily achievable in 6061 aluminum on the 618. With mine I consider up to 0.010” as finishing or light surfacing cuts; 0.010” to 0.015” as a medium depth for stock removal; and 0.015” to 0.020” as a heavy cut. In steel, drop those numbers by about 40 percent. I have carbide but use HSS almost exclusively. Note the above numbers are on the radius (depth of cut) not diameter reduction.


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## skcncx (May 4, 2022)

Doug Gray said:


> Just my 2 cents based on original post.
> 
> You _will_ wish you had a lead screw gearbox as opposed to change gears.
> you _will _want to work with steel
> However any lathe is better than no lathe


Understood on the "will want to work with steel"... as far as gearbox vs change gears, that's primarily just important for threading those??... I've been under the impression that a lot of lathe people still resort to tap and die for thread cutting anyway.  So I wasn't putting to much stock in that... other than a gear box would be nice to have.


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## skcncx (May 4, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> For a reference , there was a 618 up at Cabin Fever in excellant shape , I mean it looked brand new . A bit of tooling came with it , not much . It did not move at $450 . I should've picked it up because I stared at it for at least an hour .   I thought it was a great little lathe for the price . If you do a Cabin Fever search you'll see the pics of the lathe , and good luck with yours also . I think they're cool .


Well, when I hear those prices, the $1500 hurts.  What I'm checking out today is an hour drive... any further and I just wouldn't care.  I know he's throwing in a bunch of material which is helpful... but I think it's coming down to, he want's his price including EVERYTHING... but in reality, a lot of what I'll get in the package will go unused... as other's have remarked on.


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## Doug Gray (May 4, 2022)

It also controls the speed of your autofeed, for example you will want one rate for roughing passes (higher feed rate) than want to slow feed down for finishing passes. Haveing to fiddle with the gears for this is a PITA. just my $0.02.


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## skcncx (May 4, 2022)

Doug Gray said:


> It also controls the speed of your autofeed, for example you will want one rate for roughing passes (higher feed rate) than want to slow feed down for finishing passes. Haveing to fiddle with the gears for this is a PITA. just my $0.02.


Right.  I can easily see how I wouldn't  change and sacrifice surface quality or speed in rouging because it's a pain to change and you don't or you do and it's a pain to change.


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## skcncx (May 4, 2022)

I think my plan is, pick this Atlas 618 up, even if it's a bit high on the price, get going, see how much I use it, find out what I really need... and if I upgrade...I'm just going to jump to a Precision Matthews 10" x 22" or 30" or the largest LMS 8.5 x 20 one... those are just around the $4K mark. Even if I sell this package in a year for $1K, lose $500, if I've used it enough to know and want/need a bigger lathe, that's cheap in the long run to have the learning under my belt.. vs spend $4k day one with hardly any tooling and find out I didn't really need it.

We'll see how my negotiating skills work, hoping to at least get him down to $1,250 at the worst.


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## Doug Gray (May 4, 2022)

It's common for people new to the hobby to initial think of having just one lathe in the shop! I have a 14x40 and often wish I still had my Taig. I hope you get this one, the learning experience will be tons of fun!


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## skcncx (May 4, 2022)

Doug Gray said:


> It's common for people new to the hobby to initial think of having just one lathe in the shop! I have a 14x40 and often wish I still had my Taig. I hope you get this one, the learning experience will be tons of fun!


Yea, I want a Taig as well, but felt I almost immediately would grow out of it (capacity wise).... You can easily store those away when not in use. Seems like with the Atlas 618 I have a little more room to grow.  Learning the basics on either will be huge.  My responsible adult self says to start slow and not worry if it's on a 40 year old machine... but I really want to go to the deep end with the precision matthews 10 x 30.  Availability and inflation is really doing a number on the used market and or how long you have to wait for new stuff.

My lathe experience is like learning about electricity.... all the theory and text book knowledge won't tell you what it's really like... at least not until you get shocked... then you feel it.  So, until I use any lathe in action, anger, frustration, troubleshooting issues through to success... it'll remain "theory/speculation" in my head.


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## Aaron_W (May 4, 2022)

Doug Gray said:


> It's common for people new to the hobby to initial think of having just one lathe in the shop! I have a 14x40 and often wish I still had my Taig. I hope you get this one, the learning experience will be tons of fun!



Yes, we often see the phrase you can turn small parts on a big lathe, but you can't turn big parts on a small lathe. What is often left out is, it is even better to have a small lathe for small parts and a big lathe for big parts.



skcncx said:


> I think my plan is, pick this Atlas 618 up, even if it's a bit high on the price, get going, see how much I use it, find out what I really need... and if I upgrade...I'm just going to jump to a Precision Matthews 10" x 22" or 30" or the largest LMS 8.5 x 20 one... those are just around the $4K mark. Even if I sell this package in a year for $1K, lose $500, if I've used it enough to know and want/need a bigger lathe, that's cheap in the long run to have the learning under my belt.. vs spend $4k day one with hardly any tooling and find out I didn't really need it.
> 
> We'll see how my negotiating skills work, hoping to at least get him down to $1,250 at the worst.



The learning curve is already quite steep, so I see nothing wrong with your attitude here. You seem to be fine with writing off $500 as an "educational expense" and that is what it is. Sure maybe you wait and next month, 3 months from now or next year you find another just like it but only asking $750. Those months of waiting also have a cost, time you could have been making mistakes and learning. 
If you compare to your other get right to it options like a Micromark or LMS 7x16" lathe you are looking at spending even more than $1500, and personally I think the 6x18 is at least equal to those lathes if not better. The LMS 8.5x20 is no doubt a superior machine, but double the price and still doesn't address some of the short comings of 6x18. You could just as easily buy that 8.5x20" and in 3 years still find yourself wanting more lathe.

I'm not saying $1500 is a great deal, but it isn't completely out there. There is probably close to $1500 there, just most sellers have to break it up and sell individually to get that. This just seems to be a case of a buyer and seller meshing, the seller is patient enough to wait for a buyer willing to pay a convenience fee for the package deal, and you are getting something that might take you a considerable time to put together on your own. 

As long as you won't hate yourself if a nice 618 package turns up next week for $600.


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## skcncx (May 4, 2022)

Aaron_W said:


> Yes, we often see the phrase you can turn small parts on a big lathe, but you can't turn big parts on a small lathe. What is often left out is, it is even better to have a small lathe for small parts and a big lathe for big parts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input! I've gotten that impression that the atlas 618 is on par with the other 7x16 machines and what ii can do... if I upgrade, I'll likely want to go into a different class of lathe (bigger, more features, better quality), not just trade.  That's the ONLY reason the Taig as a first lathe looked like an attractive path, I wouldn't sell it when I upgrade, just keep it for the small stuff and go big on 2nd lathe.  2 lathes... I like that idea, but I would want them on different spectrums, not two of the same and the Taig route would prove that.  618 package I'm looking at, is about the same price as Taig end the end, so I'm hedging my bets this is all I'll ever need and if I sell, it won't hurt too bad.

Once I buy... I don't keep looking at the used market ... that just puts you in a bad mood... "comparison" mentality robs too much joy in life.


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## Aaron_W (May 4, 2022)

skcncx said:


> Thanks for the input! I've gotten that impression that the atlas 618 is on par with the other 7x16 machines and what ii can do... if I upgrade, I'll likely want to go into a different class of lathe (bigger, more features, better quality), not just trade.  That's the ONLY reason the Taig as a first lathe looked like an attractive path, I wouldn't sell it when I upgrade, just keep it for the small stuff and go big on 2nd lathe.  2 lathes... I like that idea, but I would want them on different spectrums, not two of the same and the Taig route would prove that.  618 package I'm looking at, is about the same price as Taig end the end, so I'm hedging my bets this is all I'll ever need and if I sell, it won't hurt too bad.
> 
> Once I buy... I don't keep looking at the used market ... that just puts you in a bad mood... "comparison" mentality robs too much joy in life.



Something that might help you.

Quick change gear boxes don't appear on the current generation of new lathes until you get into the 12" size, so none of the new lathes you are considering, even the 10x22s don't really offer much the 618 doesn't except size. Some do offer a limited gear box to adjust the power feed speed, but all still require change gears for threading. Some do offer variable speed which is nice, but not all do and that is something you can add to the Craftsman by changing the motor.
To get a small lathe with a QCGB you have to go vintage, Atlas / Craftsman 10-12", a South Bend 9-10", Logan 10", Myford 7 etc which means a hunt of the used market, and evaluating 50+ year old machines. QCGB was an expensive option for these older lathes so you find many more change gear lathes than those with a QCGB.

Something else that has become popular in recent years, particularly for small lathes is an electronic lead screw. Basically a quick change gear box done with electronics rather than mechanically with gears. You can always go down that DIY rabbit hole in the future.

Once you have a lathe, even one that comes up a bit short, it becomes much easier to patiently search for "the one".


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## skcncx (May 4, 2022)

Aaron_W said:


> Something that might help you.
> 
> Quick change gear boxes don't appear on the current generation of new lathes until you get into the 12" size, so none of the new lathes you are considering, even the 10x22s don't really offer much the 618 doesn't except size. Some do offer a limited gear box to adjust the power feed speed, but all still require change gears for threading. Some do offer variable speed which is nice, but not all do and that is something you can add to the Craftsman by changing the motor.
> To get a small lathe with a QCGB you have to go vintage, Atlas / Craftsman 10-12", a South Bend 9-10", Logan 10", Myford 7 etc which means a hunt of the used market, and evaluating 50+ year old machines. QCGB was an expensive option for these older lathes so you find many more change gear lathes than those with a QCGB.
> ...


Ohh... I saw the two knobs on the PM 10x22 for carriage feed speed and figured that was for cutting threads as well... just opened the manual and you still change gears... thanks.  I actually bought a 500 watt consew variable speed brushess dc motor (for my band saw)... so if I need it, I could use it on my Atlas 618.... future upgrade if it really helps.  Changing motor speed on atlas 618 with pulley's seems pretty easy as well though.

The electric lead screw seems "cool"... but if the motor bogs down on turning, you have to sync up the lead screw feed rate relative to how much the motor bogs down... or just assume perfect conditions.... so it seems like that electronic lead screw option has some caveats if I'm thinking of it correctly.  The gear box does that automatically I assume because the gears are driven off the spindle speed so it's all relative speed.


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## Larry$ (May 4, 2022)

Good thread. From what I've been able to gather, buying the 618 with all the stuff looks like a fair deal. The way things look in the photos tell me a good deal of care was used with this machine, that is worth a lot. Size: as long as it is big enough to do what you want, for now, it should be a great learning machine. "Timken" bearings! There are many excellent bearing manufacturers, don't get hung up on one brand name. When you need good bearings go to an industrial supplier like Motion Industries, not eBay! A large lathe can do small work perfectly fine, using collet chucks for small work on a big lathe works just fine. The only limitation I can see is with spindle speeds being more limited on the high end, not a big deal. 

As you've probably gathered in reading this site, the rabbit hole is very deep! It won't be long and you will want a milling machine. A mill & a lathe make up a "set." Have fun.


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## mickri (May 4, 2022)

When you go to negotiate have cash in hand.  Lay out what ever you want to spend on the table for the seller to see the cash.  If the seller won't take your money then pick up your money and walk away.  The lathe has been for sale for awhile.  There will be more lathes for sale.

Also widen your search area.  When I was looking for my lathe my search area was a day's drive to make the round trip.  The lathe I ultimately bought was only a couple of miles from my house.  My mill drill was 70 miles from my house.


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## Aaron_W (May 4, 2022)

skcncx said:


> Ohh... I saw the two knobs on the PM 10x22 for carriage feed speed and figured that was for cutting threads as well... just opened the manual and you still change gears... thanks.  I actually bought a 500 watt consew variable speed brushess dc motor (for my band saw)... so if I need it, I could use it on my Atlas 618.... future upgrade if it really helps.  Changing motor speed on atlas 618 with pulley's seems pretty easy as well though.
> 
> The electric lead screw seems "cool"... but if the motor bogs down on turning, you have to sync up the lead screw feed rate relative to how much the motor bogs down... or just assume perfect conditions.... so it seems like that electronic lead screw option has some caveats if I'm thinking of it correctly.  The gear box does that automatically I assume because the gears are driven off the spindle speed so it's all relative speed.



Yes, I thought this as well because they have a gear box. It wasn't until I got a 9x20 with a "QCGB" that I realized how limited they were. Looking through manuals I found this was the case on all of them with the exception of a few high end pro grade machines ($9000+ for a 10" lathe).

I'm not well versed on the ELS, or very comfortable with electronics. As I understand it, the ELS does register off the spindle speed so should make minor adjustments similar to what mechanical gears would do. There are several threads on the site and tons of info online if you ever decide to pursue that option.

Variable speed is often done with a DC motor as with your bandsaw or with a 3 phase motor and a variable frequency drive.

The rabbit hole is deep, and many here are more than willing to hand you a shovel.


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## skcncx (May 5, 2022)

Here to report success! I bought it, the easy part but the typical on the way home thinking... man, I paid to much ($1400) and do I really need a lathe, I'm not even sure what I will use this thing for.

See pics of my first ever turning and stuff that came with it.   There's probably lots of wrong things you see and not the right cutter etc... It's 1" aluminum rod, whittled it down to about 1/2", no real purpose other than to see some metal cutting in action.  I went with what was in the cutter, a carbide insert.

*Things I learned.... *

Those *little hand wheels are hard to keep a consistent feed rate* (current gear setup was way too fast for power feed, need to adjust)
That's *a lot of cranking on those little hand wheels* (I just learned why nice, large, smooth hand wheels are critical)
*Deflection happens*, I was too eager to start turning... so my first setup could be changed
First project is to make nine 8" long pins, 1" diameter for 2" of length and then the rest at 5/8" diameter... (kind of what you see in the pic)

I've *mastered chamfering* (mastered in a very loose sense) but I got a lot of satisfaction over that little turning operation.
I tried slow up to fast RPMS... aluminum seems to cut better at higher speeds
Some type of *DRO or better measurement readouts will be mods I make to help out*
Environmental aspects... I smelled like some sort of metal/oil combination, hot aluminum chips will singe your skin, don't try to clean up your finish with steel wool.... if it grabs is while turning... your fingers might go with it.
*What's next...*

Turn some more stuff
Gain some mastery over this little lathe and turning in general
Make some mods
Buy a bigger lathe.... this is on my list PM-1228VF-LB PRECISION 12″X28″ 1.5" spindle bore, QCGB (not all thread pitches but better), variable speed brushless dc motor, down to 50 RPM for thread cutting, can get with DROs... ohh how cool. Seems like once you get to about $4,000 to $5000 you can really make the leap to the next level with major benefits... but I still have to master the simple techniques to even know to take advantage of a larger/better lathe.


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## Doug Gray (May 5, 2022)

Your off to a great start. You'll have a ton of fun.


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## mmcmdl (May 5, 2022)

Learn all the safety aspects of a lathe before you go bigger would be my advise . Have fun learning , and forget about what you spent if you're having fun .


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## Aaron_W (May 5, 2022)

Welcome to the rabbit hole, the carrots are over there.  

Start figuring out how to make more space in your shop. It is inevitable that you will start wanting to add machines to support the lathe, bandsaw, bench grinder, milling machine etc.

Personally I wouldn't start picking out your next lathe just yet. Sure do some window shopping so you know what is out there, but use what you have for awhile (6 months, a year) then pick out what it is doing well for you and where it is falling short. Problem with selecting its future replacement right away is "the new shiny" may cause you to look for problems that really aren't a big deal to support getting something new, and you may overlook issues that don't support that particular choice of lathe.

This is a great site to learn about older lathes that you may run across.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/ 


Was the tool chest part of the deal?


You will get used to the small handwheels, with practice it is not hard to maintain a fairly consistent rate.

Emery cloth or sandpaper cut into strips is a better choice for finishing on the lathe than steel wool. It keeps your fingers back from the turning bits and held between a finger and thumb tends to pull out of your grip rather than pulling your hand in. Don't wrap it around your fingers. Sand paper has an additional benefit of tearing if snagged.

WD40 is a nice, cheap and not terribly stinky cutting fluid for aluminum.


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## Larry$ (May 5, 2022)

That is one very nice set! It would take a fair amount of $ to buy all the things you got with it.  Having the 3 chucks is great. Did you get the set of collets for the collet chuck? I really like using my collet chucks and will choose them over the jaw chucks whenever I have collets that will fit the work. You will be very happy to have gotten a QCTP and all the tool holders. Really speeds tool changes. Make yourself a tool height gage. I think the uncoated inserts are for aluminum but will likely work, sub optimally, on steel also. I see the hex bar is marked 12L14, good choice of steel. Very nice collection of material to get started with. The L stands for leaded, making it turn much nicer. 
Like has been said: learn all the operations on this lathe before you get thinking you need a bigger one. I think as you've just proven, good used lathes are available so you don't have to spend on a new one. Save that $ and get a mill (and all the accessories and tooling that are also needed!)

Even though it is a very small lathe it can be dangerous! Learn to use safely! Always safety glasses!!! *BE SAFE!*


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## skcncx (May 5, 2022)

Aaron_W said:


> Welcome to the rabbit hole, the carrots are over there.
> 
> Start figuring out how to make more space in your shop. It is inevitable that you will start wanting to add machines to support the lathe, bandsaw, bench grinder, milling machine etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks and yes, I need time before I really know if/what would be next lathe and what features are critical.  

Tool chest not part of the deal, it's just a top box to a rolling case I use for my welder... but I am planning on buying a large one on casters with all the drawers of tooling and accessories right there for this lathe and bench grinder next to it...  For cost comparison those are $400+... so everything is just expensive.  I'm transitioning into metal working.... already have table saw, 30" x 40" CNC for wood working, drill press, bench grinder, band saw for steel, welding table, aluminum multi process welder... so I just get very creating on how to make the space I have functional, about 500 sqft... one being, EVERYTHING is on wheels and easily rolled around as necessary.  Light and infrequent tools are taken up to attic (via stair case).

My first turning, no cutting fluid... didn't even think about it... I'll try WD40, I've seen elsewhere that's great for aluminum.

I like the manual turning to start... I could easily tell when I was too slow, or too deep of cut... was getting feedback... automated no so much.... so I think that is a great way to get a sense of the capability... and then lean on the power feed stuff.


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## skcncx (May 5, 2022)

Larry$ said:


> That is one very nice set! It would take a fair amount of $ to buy all the things you got with it.  Having the 3 chucks is great. Did you get the set of collets for the collet chuck? I really like using my collet chucks and will choose them over the jaw chucks whenever I have collets that will fit the work. You will be very happy to have gotten a QCTP and all the tool holders. Really speeds tool changes. Make yourself a tool height gage. I think the uncoated inserts are for aluminum but will likely work, sub optimally, on steel also. I see the hex bar is marked 12L14, good choice of steel. Very nice collection of material to get started with. The L stands for leaded, making it turn much nicer.
> Like has been said: learn all the operations on this lathe before you get thinking you need a bigger one. I think as you've just proven, good used lathes are available so you don't have to spend on a new one. Save that $ and get a mill (and all the accessories and tooling that are also needed!)
> 
> Even though it is a very small lathe it can be dangerous! Learn to use safely! Always safety glasses!!! *BE SAFE!*


I did not get any collets, but it's an ER20 collet holder which is the same size as my CNC so I already have a few....  but, I may opt for an ER40 collet adapter from http://www.mymachineshop.net.  It would just thread onto the 1" 10 TPI spindle nose.... then I can go up to an inch and use hex collets, etc...

Seller did say the 12L14 was the easiest steel to turn... now I know what the marking is... one thing about this and getting into welding aluminum is you learn about all the different alloys of metals and pros/cons of each.  Yes, on the be safe... for sure, something I'm very conscious of... safety glasses/shield for starters... and where and when I should never put my fingers... just some good practices to follow, I'll be asking a lot of questions and training here, on the net and some close friends who have lots of experience.


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## wachuko (May 5, 2022)

Congratulations!!  And do not second guess the purchase.  To me, this is the best therapy in the world!

And please, never let your guard down.  Do a mental check before turning anything... is the chuck key out, manually turn the chuck to confirm nothing hits before you turn it on... with everything off, move the cutter the travel of the cut to make sure nothing hits.... finding this out when everything is turning is not fun!

Looking forward to your updates and photos as you go on this journey.


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## FOMOGO (May 5, 2022)

I think you did fine on the purchase, and will learn a lot on the little Atlas. I started out on a 12x54 Atlas that started out as a pile of parts, and still use it today, though I've moved on to much larger machines. Will look forward to your progress, and welcome to the site. Mike


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## pkemner (May 5, 2022)

Congratulations!
I was seriously considering this one too, but it was on the small end of what I'm looking for, and it's 100 miles away and harder to schedule a trip.
I don't think you paid too much for the condition and goodies. It's a mystery why metal lathes are on the higher end here. With all the industries around after WWII, and machinists having a lathe at home, you'd think there'd be a surplus. I've looked on and off for years, and the cheap ones are either industrial monsters, or look like they just came out of the Titanic Machine shop.
Kudos on getting it set up and running.


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## Cadillac STS (May 5, 2022)

You did not pay too much.


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## Manual Mac (May 5, 2022)

You did just fine on the 618, nice lathe.
i can see a small mill on the horizon for you.
welcome to the rabbit hole!


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## skcncx (May 6, 2022)

pkemner said:


> Congratulations!
> I was seriously considering this one too, but it was on the small end of what I'm looking for, and it's 100 miles away and harder to schedule a trip.
> I don't think you paid too much for the condition and goodies. It's a mystery why metal lathes are on the higher end here. With all the industries around after WWII, and machinists having a lathe at home, you'd think there'd be a surplus. I've looked on and off for years, and the cheap ones are either industrial monsters, or look like they just came out of the Titanic Machine shop.
> Kudos on getting it set up and running.


Yea, I guess it just depends on location.  It's odd that for far less $$ I could have purchase 4-5 lathes close by that were the size of my truck and larger... but the small ones, hard to find and or in must restore condition... I guess demand and it's a larger market for benchtop lathes for us hobbyists. I'm not sure I would have been able to drive 100 miles... time is precious between work and family and available vacation time to take a day to do it.. After a couple hours of driving w/gas prices... shipping to your door, even larger stuff makes life easy.


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## Aaron_W (May 6, 2022)

skcncx said:


> Yea, I guess it just depends on location.  It's odd that for far less $$ I could have purchase 4-5 lathes close by that were the size of my truck and larger... but the small ones, hard to find and or in must restore condition... I guess demand and it's a larger market for benchtop lathes for us hobbyists. I'm not sure I would have been able to drive 100 miles... time is precious between work and family and available vacation time to take a day to do it.. After a couple hours of driving w/gas prices... shipping to your door, even larger stuff makes life easy.



The bigger the lathe the smaller the market. You can easily move a 618 with 2 guys and a Honda Civic, and even an apartment dweller can find some bench space for it. Once you get to 16" swing / 3500lbs and larger it becomes a pretty niche market.


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## pkemner (May 6, 2022)

Back in the 80's, the man who let me use his mill and lathe told me he saw a nice lathe go at an auction far less than $100. Something really cheap. I asked him why he didn't buy it for me. Turns out it was 30 feet long with a swing of several feet.


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## mmcmdl (May 6, 2022)

pkemner said:


> Back in the 80's, the man who let me use his mill and lathe told me he saw a nice lathe go at an auction far less than $100. Something really cheap. I asked him why he didn't buy it for me. Turns out it was 30 feet long with a swing of several feet.


The majority of companies end up paying someone to come get these machines out of their factories . These companies then rebuild the machines and try to re-sell them . I haven't seen too many of the larger machines move recently . Maybe one day they'll fill a need .


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## wa5cab (May 8, 2022)

As far as QCGB's go, there have been a few built over the years.  But unless you are just lucky, you would probably wait a long time for one to come on the market.  However, if you study the threading table carefully, you can probably pick two gear setups that will only require one pair of gears to change to switch from roughing to finish feed rate.  Which won't be too bad.

And I have already said all that I;m going to say on pricing.


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## skcncx (May 9, 2022)

wa5cab said:


> As far as QCGB's go, there have been a few built over the years.  But unless you are just lucky, you would probably wait a long time for one to come on the market.  However, if you study the threading table carefully, you can probably pick two gear setups that will only require one pair of gears to change to switch from roughing to finish feed rate.  Which won't be too bad.
> 
> And I have already said all that I;m going to say on pricing.


At this time, I've done some aluminum turning just to get the feel for it... and I'll just set my gears up for .004 feed rate per turn and run with it that way... I realize now after spending some time and just turning larger 6061 aluminum stock to smaller diameters playing with different cutters HSS, carbide with different coatings, tried drilling then boring... I have a long way to go before I attempt threading and special gear setups for that.

Even now, feeding manually by crank wheel gives me some feedback on how fast, depth of cut, etcs... heck, just noticing the different type of chips coming off and with and without cutting fluid (just tried WD40 at the moment).

Oh yea, brushing off the chips with your bare hands is a bad idea.. sharp little suckers.  Coming from woodworking where dust doesn't have razor sharp edges... gotta retrain my brain.


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## cross thread (May 9, 2022)

A tip I would like to share , because I found this out just the other day . This might not be the case with other Atlas 6 inch machines but it is on mine . I would spend some time getting the tailstock zeroed in and then move it , it was not coming back in place , the fix is to loosen the lock bolt , push the tailstock over to one side and zero it . Now when you have to move it and then come back to drill , push it over to the same side and lock it down . The easiest way to zero it in is , with centers , one in the headstock and one in the tailstock . Bring the tips together , loosen the lock bolt , push it over to one side now adjust with the set screws on each side of the tailstock get the center points to line up . You can also do this with a test indicator .   
Mark .


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## skcncx (May 10, 2022)

cross thread said:


> A tip I would like to share , because I found this out just the other day . This might not be the case with other Atlas 6 inch machines but it is on mine . I would spend some time getting the tailstock zeroed in and then move it , it was not coming back in place , the fix is to loosen the lock bolt , push the tailstock over to one side and zero it . Now when you have to move it and then come back to drill , push it over to the same side and lock it down . The easiest way to zero it in is , with centers , one in the headstock and one in the tailstock . Bring the tips together , loosen the lock bolt , push it over to one side now adjust with the set screws on each side of the tailstock get the center points to line up . You can also do this with a test indicator .
> Mark .


I'll have to check... I really just go it all setup on my bench and tried turning a few things... haven't really dialed anything in yet, but I think it came pretty much ready to go... everything is very tight and smooth, no play in anyting.

After changing the gear box last nights to a feed rate of .0024" per revolution, my surface finish improved massively over manually cranking the feed rate wheel.  I must have been feeding too fast.  This was with a carbide insert on 6061 aluminum 1" diameter rod... I was in one of the faster settings... not sure exact RPMs, plan to hook up tachometer and a variable speed motor.  I was also able to take a deeper cut.  I may bump that up to the .0039" per/rev feed rate and see.... but wow, what a huge improvement.  I just hope I don't wear out the half nuts and lead screw prematurely... previous owner reserved the automatic feed for threading only... but I'm not sure I plan to.  Maybe just buy some extra half nuts if I can find them at a good price.


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## British Tool (May 10, 2022)

skcncx said:


> So, I believe I have found the lathe for me... right size, condition and several extras, appears to be in great condition by someone who took care of it..  *let me know your thoughts and any tips for my first lathe.. $1500, maybe high, but all the extras and condition seems like a reasonable deal*.
> 
> Would like digital DROs and variable speed motor on newer stuff, considered a Micro Lux 7 x 16, even a Taig (they are likely just a bit too small for me to grown into) but I think this is a great option to start on and turn some nice parts.  Aluminum and plastics is all I really care about, maybe steel.
> 
> ...


I'll take it if you pass!


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## skcncx (May 10, 2022)

British Tool said:


> I'll take it if you pass!


Already picked it up!  Great little lathe.  When you have a golden hammer, everything looks like a nail, now that I have a lathe... I've never noticed so many round parts.

Funny, the next day, I got a much delayed response from a MyFord Super 7 I was looking at as well... more $ for less stuff... and I got the impression it would be harder to find parts for if needed, even though it looks like a more robust lathe.  Glad I went the Atlas 618 route.


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## Aaron_W (May 10, 2022)

skcncx said:


> I'll have to check... I really just go it all setup on my bench and tried turning a few things... haven't really dialed anything in yet, but I think it came pretty much ready to go... everything is very tight and smooth, no play in anyting.
> 
> After changing the gear box last nights to a feed rate of .0024" per revolution, my surface finish improved massively over manually cranking the feed rate wheel.  I must have been feeding too fast.  This was with a carbide insert on 6061 aluminum 1" diameter rod... I was in one of the faster settings... not sure exact RPMs, plan to hook up tachometer and a variable speed motor.  I was also able to take a deeper cut.  I may bump that up to the .0039" per/rev feed rate and see.... but wow, what a huge improvement.  I just hope I don't wear out the half nuts and lead screw prematurely... previous owner reserved the automatic feed for threading only... but I'm not sure I plan to.  Maybe just buy some extra half nuts if I can find them at a good price.



Power feed is nice, but it is good to develop some skill in maintaining a steady manual feed. It took some practice but I can get a good surface finish feeding by hand.
Also keep in mind when roughing the surface finish isn't that important so you don't really have to swap gears between your roughing and finish cuts unless you just want the practice of changing gears or just don't feel like cranking handles. 

You will also probably find you will get a better surface finish with high speed steel blanks vs carbide, particularly with aluminum or brass. 

I wouldn't worry too much about the half nuts, even though this is a hobby grade machine it will take years of heavy use to wear them out. You can usually find new sets for $60-80 if you will sleep better at night having a spare set. Somebody is also offering bronze half nuts instead of the original ZAMAK ones, not sure the benefit of bronze but they do look nice.


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## skcncx (May 12, 2022)

Aaron_W said:


> Power feed is nice, but it is good to develop some skill in maintaining a steady manual feed. It took some practice but I can get a good surface finish feeding by hand.
> Also keep in mind when roughing the surface finish isn't that important so you don't really have to swap gears between your roughing and finish cuts unless you just want the practice of changing gears or just don't feel like cranking handles.
> 
> You will also probably find you will get a better surface finish with high speed steel blanks vs carbide, particularly with aluminum or brass.
> ...


Plan to try HSS... just purchased a 60 grit aluminum oxide 6" grinding wheel so I'll give that a try.  With power feed (mainly because it was a very consistent feed rate) the carbide tooling did leave a very smooth finish... now the chip management, or birds nesting of the cut offs was fun to deal with.  Feeds, speeds and cutting tools is probably all over the map with what works for everyone.

Swapping gears wasn't too bad, if the tooth count is written on the gear .  But not something I would want to do very often, even for threading, I'll just break out the tap and dies first.


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## Aaron_W (May 12, 2022)

skcncx said:


> Plan to try HSS... just purchased a 60 grit aluminum oxide 6" grinding wheel so I'll give that a try.  With power feed (mainly because it was a very consistent feed rate) the carbide tooling did leave a very smooth finish... now the chip management, or birds nesting of the cut offs was fun to deal with.  Feeds, speeds and cutting tools is probably all over the map with what works for everyone.
> 
> Swapping gears wasn't too bad, if the tooth count is written on the gear .  But not something I would want to do very often, even for threading, I'll just break out the tap and dies first.



I haven't done much threading except for learning, tap and die is good enough for most things I do.

Little Machine Shop sells some pre sharpened HSS bits and blanks in different sizes, 1/4" should be fine but some like to go a little bigger 5/16" or 3/8". Not sure it really makes a difference on a lathe this size, but smaller is easier / faster to grind and cheaper. Pre sharpened are nice just to have something to get started with.

LMS tool bits


You can also find lots with used bits off of ebay, often very cheap and some are quite interesting. Sizes and prices can be all over the place 1/4" to 1", so you need to look closely at the description and photos. I picked up a couple pounds of bits off of ebay for about $10, that basically filled a small USPS prepaid flat rate box.


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## 56type (May 14, 2022)

You're going to like the Atlas. I picked my Atlas 10100 Mk.2 lathe up several years ago with nothing but the motor, 4-jaw chuck & 1/2" drill chuck in the tail stock. It had the lantern style tool post (which I still have), it was clean and the estate sale price of $360 was affordable.

Make sure you get it leveled up correctly and cut a test bar to dial it in and remove any twist from the bed so that it doesn't cut a taper on longer pieces. I managed to get mine down to a few ten-thousandths on a piece of stock sticking 6" out of the 4-jaw unsupported. You'll be pleasantly surprised by how accurate it can be when set up properly.

I've used some of the pre-ground 1/4" HSS tool bits from LMS and have been happy with those as well as the small carbide insert sets you can find at Harbor Freight for around $20 with one of their coupon codes.







I used it to successfully make a speed reduction pulley setup for a Delta DP220 drill press I picked up for free and restored. Worlds better than most of the off the shelf commercial stuff offered today...


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## skcncx (May 16, 2022)

56type said:


> You're going to like the Atlas. I picked my Atlas 10100 Mk.2 lathe up several years ago with nothing but the motor, 4-jaw chuck & 1/2" drill chuck in the tail stock. It had the lantern style tool post (which I still have), it was clean and the estate sale price of $360 was affordable.
> 
> Make sure you get it leveled up correctly and cut a test bar to dial it in and remove any twist from the bed so that it doesn't cut a taper on longer pieces. I managed to get mine down to a few ten-thousandths on a piece of stock sticking 6" out of the 4-jaw unsupported. You'll be pleasantly surprised by how accurate it can be when set up properly.
> 
> ...


Nice looking lathe.  So far, really like the Atlas 618, great to get me going.  Capacity wise, I think it'll all I'll ever need... more features maybe in the future.. but for now, it's great.

I have so many carbide insert that came with it as well as some HSS blanks I'll probably be good for awhile... but I did see those in Harbor Freight the other day.

I'm getting my setup all organized at the moment... it'll be on a rolling tool chest and planning to buy a 1.5" thick birch cutting board to screw down to top of rolling cabinet and then the lathe on top.  I'll level based on that.  Obviously I won't be perfectly level based on where I need to roll it to in my shop but it should be ridged enough to now allow any twisting once leveled/shimmed originally.  I think that's the critical part, everything is true relative to the headstock, tail stock and ways.

My next plan is to hook up a Consew CSM1000 variable speed 500watt brushless DC motor to make speed changes a bit easier... though, nothing really wrong with my current 1725 rpm motor and belt changes.  May put that motor on my bandsaw to slow it down for metal cutting... and with a lathe, I can adapt a custom bushing/pully with the slightly off sized shaft.

I'll likely opt for  a 3/8 link belt... that's the one odd thing, to change a belt on this unit, seems like a lot of work to take the head stock out.


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## Aaron_W (May 16, 2022)

skcncx said:


> I'll likely opt for  a 3/8 link belt... that's the one odd thing, to change a belt on this unit, seems like a lot of work to take the head stock out.



I just installed a link belt on mine, 5 feet was perfect to replace both belts with just a few links to spare. As the actual set up will vary some you might want to go for 6 feet to be safe, and yes 3/8". I've seen some comment that their link belts stick up further than a vee belt causing it to rub on parts of the lathe, but this does not appear to be an issue on mine so perhaps related to your exact mounting of the motor, lathe and counter shaft. I can see that small changes in my setup could result in unwanted contact.

Installing the link belt is more of a chore than I expected, and there was much cursing involved, but still easier than disassembling the spindle as is required with standard vee belts.

I'd suggest you break and reassemble the link belt a few times so you get the process down before you are wrapped up in the lathe. I thought it was going to be easier than it was, and learning when the pulleys / spindle are fighting you does not help.


Your plan to mount yours to a thick board is a good one. Mine is currently mounted on a 1" plywood board. I added several feet on the bottom side to make it easier to move on the bench top. I think I used 8, 6 around the sides and 2 in the middle to help keep the weight evenly distributed. Obviously you want to avoid twist but on a lathe this size that is not nearly so much of an issue as with a larger / longer lathe. Screwing the lathe down securely but not overly snug can help prevent changes in the wood from imparting twist. I left one of the two screws on the tail stock end with just a bit of play as I have seen others suggest.


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## skcncx (May 16, 2022)

Aaron_W said:


> I just installed a link belt on mine, 5 feet was perfect to replace both belts with just a few links to spare. As the actual set up will vary some you might want to go for 6 feet to be safe, and yes 3/8". I've seen some comment that their link belts stick up further than a vee belt causing it to rub on parts of the lathe, but this does not appear to be an issue on mine so perhaps related to your exact mounting of the motor, lathe and counter shaft. I can see that small changes in my setup could result in unwanted contact.
> 
> Installing the link belt is more of a chore than I expected, and there was much cursing involved, but still easier than disassembling the spindle as is required with standard vee belts.
> 
> ...


Sounds good... hopefully 5ft is enough, that is what I have.  Considering I planning on a variable speed motor, I may not need the extra arm/belt tension pulley setup if I go directly from motor pully to spindle pulley... though, for now, I plan to keep the factory belt tension apparatus.... thanks for the tip on the link belt... I already realized the difficulty when adding and remove links just to "see" when it arrived... I can see ANY tension on it would make it difficult to impossible since I didn't realize TWO links/tabs overlap to make the connection.... needle nose pliers should help.

I wasn't even thinking about wood movement... I ended up getting a 1.75" solid birch board, laminated cutting board, which I was going to bolt down in several places to rolling tool chest... maybe two sheets of laminated plywood might be better... even MDF since it won't move as much.  Though being my board is laminated from a bunch of small strips of birch, it's less likely to move during seasons as it's not just a solid, one piece board off the tree.


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## 56type (May 16, 2022)

skcncx said:


> Nice looking lathe.  So far, really like the Atlas 618, great to get me going.  Capacity wise, I think it'll all I'll ever need... more features maybe in the future.. but for now, it's great.
> 
> I have so many carbide insert that came with it as well as some HSS blanks I'll probably be good for awhile... but I did see those in Harbor Freight the other day.
> 
> ...



Still not sure why Atlas made the 618 belt changes such a PITA, one of the reasons I picked up the Mk.2 was the ease of belt changes. Might I make a suggestion, make sure you get a metal chip tray between the lathe and the wooden bench top. The small Atlas lathes let a bit of oil pass thru that winds up at the base of the lathe. The metal top on mine in the pics is presisely for that reason, as over time the oil will have an effect on the wood.

Mine is sitting on a HF roll away tool cabinet at present. I haven't decide whether I'll keep the roller casters or make some leveling feet for it to ensure the best stability. I had my lathe leveled, but didn't have it dialed in until after cutting a test bar. Can't say enough about checking the alignment with a test cut on a 1 inch bar. I used the 2 collar method and got it down to 0.0005 inch over the 6 inch length of bar that was sticking out of the 4-jaw unsupported. Take light cuts to minimize deflection caused by tool pressure against the work and use a micrometer to check your progress for best results. I was able to reduce the amount of taper the lathe cut after initial setup considerably, ven though the Starrett level said everything was good the test bar REALLY tells the tale of how the lathe is interacting with the work.


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## skcncx (May 17, 2022)

56type said:


> Still not sure why Atlas made the 618 belt changes such a PITA, one of the reasons I picked up the Mk.2 was the ease of belt changes. Might I make a suggestion, make sure you get a metal chip tray between the lathe and the wooden bench top. The small Atlas lathes let a bit of oil pass thru that winds up at the base of the lathe. The metal top on mine in the pics is presisely for that reason, as over time the oil will have an effect on the wood.
> 
> Mine is sitting on a HF roll away tool cabinet at present. I haven't decide whether I'll keep the roller casters or make some leveling feet for it to ensure the best stability. I had my lathe leveled, but didn't have it dialed in until after cutting a test bar. Can't say enough about checking the alignment with a test cut on a 1 inch bar. I used the 2 collar method and got it down to 0.0005 inch over the 6 inch length of bar that was sticking out of the 4-jaw unsupported. Take light cuts to minimize deflection caused by tool pressure against the work and use a micrometer to check your progress for best results. I was able to reduce the amount of taper the lathe cut after initial setup considerably, ven though the Starrett level said everything was good the test bar REALLY tells the tale of how the lathe is interacting with the work.


I do plan to paint the wood top to help with moisture absorption and mitigate any wood movement as well as oils, etc... but I do have some 1/16" thick aluminum sheet and could add.  I have noticed the oil below the head stock and spindle assembly.... Once I get everything mounted I'll certainly dial it all in, thanks for the suggestion on the "2 collar method"... I'll be looking that up.  I have a decent digital level that is very sensitive, but not sure it's up to the task for fine adjustments... but it's all I have for now.


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## Aaron_W (May 17, 2022)

56type said:


> Still not sure why Atlas made the 618 belt changes such a PITA, one of the reasons I picked up the Mk.2 was the ease of belt changes.



I think just a carry over from the era they were made. Flat belt the spindle was not a big deal because the belt was stitched together on the lathe, kind of like a modern link belt. The change to Vee belts initially just swapped pulleys from the flat belt era, and seems to have carried over for some time. The 618 dates back to the 1930s, and even though always vee belt as far as I know followed the standard at that time. I have a 1978 Logan / Powermatic and it also requires taking the spindle apart to install a new belt, pretty sure this is the case for most of the major USA brands.

Not familiar with the Mk2 belt change, how is it different from the earlier 6" lathes? Just easier to pull the spindle?


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## 56type (May 17, 2022)

Aaron_W said:


> I think just a carry over from the era they were made. Flat belt the spindle was not a big deal because the belt was stitched together on the lathe, kind of like a modern link belt. The change to Vee belts initially just swapped pulleys from the flat belt era, and seems to have carried over for some time. The 618 dates back to the 1930s, and even though always vee belt as far as I know followed the standard at that time. I have a 1978 Logan / Powermatic and it also requires taking the spindle apart to install a new belt, pretty sure this is the case for most of the major USA brands.
> 
> Not familiar with the Mk2 belt change, how is it different from the earlier 6" lathes? Just easier to pull the spindle?



On the 10100 Mk.2 the belt change is more like changing a serpentine belt on your car... There are the pulleys attached to the drive motor and the one on the spindle itself. There is also an idler/tensioner pulley that you loosen and slide upward in it's slot that removes the tension from the drive belt and it  is simply rotated to the smallest diameter on both the motor & spindle pulleys. At that point you simply remove the belt from one of the pulleys and then the other and you are ready to install a new belt. Installation is the reverse of removal. Slip one end of new belt over either of the pulleys, the other end will have enough slack to go over the second pulley, pick the speed/diameter slot and rotate the pulleys until the desired combination is reached, then slide the tension/idler pulley back down into position to apply tension to the outside of the belt and tighten it down and you're done.

The Mk.2 doesn't have quite the same range of speeds as the 618 with all it's various belts and pulleys but I've been happy with mine. Both speed & belt changes are easily accomplished by merely loosening the tension/idler pulley nut.


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## wa5cab (May 21, 2022)

On all of the Atlas built lathes, any oil put on the spindle bearings or the cone pulley or the back gears will eventually end up on the board that the lathe sits on.  So a drip pan between the board and the lathe is always a good idea.

As far as the spindle V-belt is concerned, most people take the lathe apart anyway,  And if you use a good quality belt when you reassemble it, the belt will most likely out last you.  And if you for example expect to do any grinding or any other job that requires running the lathe in reverse, there won't be any issue with the drive belt.


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