# Took apart the compound and cross slide today...



## jduncan (Oct 15, 2012)

I took the leap and removed both assemblies today.  The compound seems ok but the braze nut for the cross slide is chewed up inside resulting in more than 1/16" play.  Discovered that the pin that holds the dial sleeve on the shaft is missing, which explains the squirrely behavior. The screw shaft does have some wear but I think a new nut will tighten it up enough.

Is there a source for the brass nuts for a '74 13" model?


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## rp1950 (Oct 15, 2012)

I bought one from this place on ebay for my 16" and it was perfect.

Hope the link works...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-...636?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564907837c


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## jduncan (Oct 16, 2012)

Thanks for that tip, I ordered one from him.  Hopefully I won't have to have the screw rebuilt....


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## rw1 (Oct 19, 2012)

Keep us posted with the fit&finish....good to know where to get parts!




jduncan said:


> Thanks for that tip, I ordered one from him.  Hopefully I won't have to have the screw rebuilt....


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## 7HC (Oct 19, 2012)

Seems like a high price for something that looks like it would be easy to make......but what do I know?  :whistle:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-...636?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564907837c

What is it that qualifies its value?


M


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## McRuff (Oct 19, 2012)

7HC said:


> Seems like a high price for something that looks like it would be easy to make......but what do I know?  :whistle:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-...636?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564907837c
> 
> ...


Probably the $100-$200 that the  taps cost and the fact that there's about 1 1/2-2 hours work in it, depending on your equipment and expertise. At that price you couldn't get rich for sure especially if all you sold were 3-8 per month on average.


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## jduncan (Oct 19, 2012)

I had thought of making it myself but the nut was in very bad shape and the cross slide had way to much play in it for me to think of attempting it.  Plus the tech school guys had added extra parts to the assembly to try to compensate. The sleeve the dial tightens on is missing the pin so I have to find a replacement. Does anyone know if it is tapered?


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## 7HC (Oct 20, 2012)

McRuff said:


> Probably the $100-$200 that the  taps cost and the fact that there's about 1 1/2-2 hours work in it, depending on your equipment and expertise. At that price you couldn't get rich for sure especially if all you sold were 3-8 per month on average.




I understand that labor has to be paid for, but if you've set up to produce these things commercially and presumably have the tooling in place (are the threads so special that taps are really that expensive?), I think you should be able to turn one out in well under an hour. 

Still, if that's what the market will bear then that's the price.

M


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## Tony Wells (Oct 20, 2012)

I don't know how to break it to you guys, but $58 is plenty reasonable for that part. Sit down and write the plan for making that part and then visualize doing the required number of setups, and then consider the tooling. There won't be much money left for the actual manufacturing labor.

Or if you want to consider the CNC approach and run out a thousand of them, the material gets a little cheaper, of course the labor per part is less because you have less spindle time, but you still have tooling costs, the setup times are amortized over the run, so on a thousand it disappears. But then, compare the machinery costs, and the fact that it will take 10 years to sell a thousand of them. 

Now how does it look?


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## 7HC (Oct 20, 2012)

Tony Wells said:


> I don't know how to break it to you guys, but $58 is plenty reasonable for that part. Sit down and write the plan for making that part and then visualize doing the required number of setups, and then consider the tooling. There won't be much money left for the actual manufacturing labor.
> 
> Or if you want to consider the CNC approach and run out a thousand of them, the material gets a little cheaper, of course the labor per part is less because you have less spindle time, but you still have tooling costs, the setup times are amortized over the run, so on a thousand it disappears. But then, compare the machinery costs, and the fact that it will take 10 years to sell a thousand of them.
> 
> Now how does it look?



I'm not arguing, but here's how I'd write the plan:




1: Cut 3" from a length of what looks to be approximately 1"x 2" brass bar stock.
2: Mount it in an independent 4 jaw chuck to turn the raised 'collar'.
3: While it's there, drill and tap the 'collar'. 
4: Remount it length-ways and drill and tap the second thread.
5: If the bar stock didn't already have rounded edges, mount it in the mill and radius the two top edges.

These sell for $58 shipped (and I wish the seller well), but if you allow a generous $18 for material, shipping, electricity etc., it leaves $40 for labor, which for an experienced machinist well versed in producing this particular item should take about 30 minutes, made up as follows from above:

1: 5 min
2,3, and 4: 20 min
5: 5 min

Total: 30min,  which is an easy $80 an hour.

I don't begrudge him $40 for his labor on each one, he's been smart enough to find a good niche market product that commands a high price. 
I just don't think it looks like a great value for the money, especially when many of the potential customers have the potential to make one themselves, but of course that's just my opinion.


M


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## Tony Wells (Oct 20, 2012)

Well, you forgot to add in the telephone call time to locate and procure the bar, which may, or may not be available in flat, the time to saw it if you didn't buy just enough precut to make one piece, time to make it rectangular if it isn't available in rectangle, time and money to buy the tooling, deburing time, cleanup time. And time to do everything I forgot about. All in all, there would be well over an hour in that part when it was done and ready to ship. Plus he's got to allow for scrapping one once in a while. 

I'm not arguing about it, just looking at it the way a commercial shop would. And lots of shops are doing more than $80/hour these days. But you are right, many of the people needing these would be able to make them themselves, but not all.


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## 7HC (Oct 20, 2012)

Tony Wells said:


> Well, you forgot to add in the telephone call time to locate and procure the bar, which may, or may not be available in flat, the time to saw it if you didn't buy just enough precut to make one piece, time to make it rectangular if it isn't available in rectangle, time and money to buy the tooling, deburing time, cleanup time. And time to do everything I forgot about. All in all, there would be well over an hour in that part when it was done and ready to ship.................



If we were talking about walking into a commercial shop and asking to have a single one made I would fully agree, and also that $80+ an hour would be expected.  After all, it's a similar hourly rate to have your car fixed.

When you set yourself up to specifically make this items though, you only have to do most of the above once; he's not making a 'one off' for which material has to be purchased, drawings made, and tooling aquired every time someone hits the BIN button on eBay.......and that's the reason I say it's an expensive piece of brass.  It's the difference between a bespoke item, and one coming from a production line, albeit a very slow one.

However,  I think we could both agree that what the market will bear is what really counts at the end of the day.


M


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## jduncan (Oct 22, 2012)

Despite the controversy, the nut fit my crossslide shaft properly and now I can focus on getting the lathe back together so I can make chips with my new toy.


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## November X-ray (Oct 22, 2012)

jduncan said:


> Despite the controversy, the nut fit my crossslide shaft properly and now I can focus on getting the lathe back together so I can make chips with my new toy.



The obligatory pictures will be expected! By the way, your not very far from me, when I am at home anyway!


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## 7HC (Oct 22, 2012)

jduncan said:


> Despite the controversy, the nut fit my crossslide shaft properly and now I can focus on getting the lathe back together so I can make chips with my new toy.



That's what counts at the end of the day!


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## jumps4 (Oct 22, 2012)

thats probably a left hand thread and the cheapest tap i could find to tap those nuts is $133.00 each and how precision is it, they go up to $211.00 each on ebay not knowing the quality. i think the nut is a more than fair price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acme-Thread...882?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2ad65d0a
steve


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## jduncan (Oct 23, 2012)

Does anyone have a source for the pin used to hold the sleeve on the cross slide shaft?  This is the sleeve the dial rides over and its lock knobs tightens onto.

Also, are there two sets of thrust bearings on the cross slide shaft?  Mine has two sets.


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## OldMachinist (Oct 24, 2012)

I believe you're asking about item #13 shown below. If so it's just a soft 1/8" x 5/16" steel pin.


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## jduncan (Oct 24, 2012)

Yep, that's it.  Thanks!


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## OldMachinist (Oct 25, 2012)

If you go to the download area of the forum, under South Bend parts there's a file called Commerially Available Hardware. This parts list gives you the size and type of all the pins, screws, bolts, nuts and washers of all those numbers on the lathe parts list like 160x268(the pin you asked about).


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