# PM-1127VF-LB Lathe vs PM-1228VF-LB Precision Lathe?



## Tired&Retired (Sep 28, 2020)

I'm still trying to work through a rather disturbing incident buying a Chinesium lathe off of Ebay, now trying to work through the return process, and that got me thinking that perhaps I should just get a brand name *quality* small lathe.  So I am looking at PM's website and the 1127 or 1228 seem to be the smallest lathes they have with that 1.5" spindle throughput hole I want.  I've been reading through the specs and manuals on the website, but I'm not sure how much of the info posted there is up to date. There are some discrepancies between photos and some of the info provided.  I've been in email contact with PM over the weekend, but I guess Monday showed up and my latest email with some questions I have are low on the totem pole with fires they may have to address today.

Anyway, I'm reading all I can here and elsewhere about both of the lathes, and paging through youtube videos too.  But I would like to solicit some feedback from anyone who may have gone through the same research I am going through and would be interested in their thoughts about why they chose one over the other, or perhaps none of the above.  FYI, a larger, heavier lathe is just out of the question.  500 pounds is really stretching the limits as it is.  I am a raw newbie hobbyist, with no real use of a lathe in mind except that I just want one for the odd times it would be handy to have, and capable of doing just about anything I am likely to come up with to do with it. I already have a little Emco-Maier Compact 5 lathe that I have had for a long time, that has worked fine for me, up to the point where I wanted to make some handles for a shop press I got and it just wasn't up to the task of handling that 1.5" rod I wanted to use, and knurling the handle ends like I wanted was just beyond it's capabilities.

I can afford to buy either one, just really want to know if the more expensive one is worth the price difference, I guess.  What, exactly, makes the 1128 worth more than the 1127?


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## Aukai (Sep 28, 2020)

I have not gone through the spec sheet for the 1127, I own a 1228. When I started I was, and I still am extremely space limited, and only wanted to be able to support my car hobby. When I got the 1228 I did not even have a learners permit to drive the damn thing. I set it up, put it through the startup routine, got familiar with the controls, then.... It sat for 2 years 0 use, it gave me anxiety standing next to it running,,,, 2000 RPM gave me the Willies. The day came, and I had to make something, so I put my big boy britches on, and proceeded to break some carbide inserts, and started figuring things out. Feel, and hearing gave me most feedback. The 1228 has been a very good lathe, now that I have the learners permit, I'm going to get my owners license, and move to a 1340GT. The work I want to do is just a little bigger than the 1228 can handle size wise, I'll have to make room for another 7 to 9". Ask if you have questions


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## ttabbal (Sep 28, 2020)

Looking at the current versions of both, it looks like the 1228 has more gearbox settings, so you don't have to change out gears as much as the 1127. The other big difference is that the 1228 has a brushless DC motor, while the 1127 uses a 3 phase AC motor with VFD. The torque curves are different for the types, and you get a little more capacity on the 1228. 

Either one would serve you well, in my view. I have the 1127, but I can see why the gearbox options might make the 1228 a nice option. I didn't mind the change gears much, but they were annoying enough that I built an electronic lead screw. 

One thing to consider if you don't already have a stand/bench for the lathe, the 1236 comes with a stand. That narrows the price difference a fair bit. It is heavier, but with a engine hoist or some other lifting device, moving them isn't a big issue. And weight gives you rigidity.


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 1, 2020)

I believe I am going to go with the 1228.  Been watching quite a number of videos on YouTube featuring this lathe, and I like what I am seeing.

Question, though.  I know this is still going to be a Chinese made lathe, but with it coming through PM, will I still have to take it apart, deburring and cleaning up everything like I see people typically doing with Chinese made lathes?  I know I will have to check alignments, but does PM have enough pull with their sources in China that "de-junking" the lathe isn't something that their customers have to do?


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## ttabbal (Oct 1, 2020)

I checked a few things on mine, and was happy with how it came from the factory. Other than cleanup of the shipping grease that you would expect, it was in good shape. No deburring was needed. Once it's on the bench/stand you have to align/level it, but you have to do that with any lathe. I did not find any sand from casting in the gearbox etc. like the worst horror stories.

I did have to file the key on the change gear sleeves a little, the fit was so tight you would have to near press them in. They need to be snug, no play, but should slide if you get the alignment right. It only took a few minutes to get them to that point.


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## Aukai (Oct 1, 2020)

They test run it if I'm not mistaken, Mine would not run on arrival. The door safty latch was not contacting, so i took it off of the door, and put the spade in the switch, and it ran.


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 4, 2020)

I just found the following post, and it made that warm fuzzy feeling about buying the 1228, well, not quite so warm nor quite so fuzzy;



barnbwt said:


> As an owner of a PM1228VFLB...be sure to check out the machine well when it arrives.  If the delivery crate is damaged at all, or the unit is the least bit dirty, do yourself a favor and send it back before getting attached.  I wish I had.  Despite its problems, I've still been able to make a lot of cool stuff on it, just not to the quality even a machine this size/heritage should be capable of; the PM1228VF is on paper, probably the best turn-key layout a new guy looking to learn could ask for.
> 
> -My feed rod (not lead screw) was cut about .04" off center so it binds/loads the apron & gears as it turns, which wouldn't be more than a wear/noise issue except
> -The underside of the near-side ways where the gibs clamp were very badly machined* at the headstock (most used) end, so I basically don't have gib pressure controlling the apron from lifting up with every turn of the feed rod most of the time; causing waves in every feature cut using power feed (especially when apron center mass is past the near-side way).  Cut-spring is also made cripplingly terrible because of this, a repeated-.001" slide adjustment in X will return anywhere from a .000" to .005" change in diameter depending on cutting parameters (tool, speed, feed, material, stock size, Z position, etc)
> ...



Anyone else had this sort of experience with the two lathes I am looking at from PM, or was this just a lemon that people sometimes get from any sort of device more complicated than a can opener?


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## Aukai (Oct 4, 2020)

I did not have any issues with my 1228 other than the belt should b changed ASAP, and the door closed safety mechanism worked open or closed. The spade had to be removed from the door, and slid into the receiver. To be functional one or the other would need to be relocated.


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 9, 2020)

How tall is going to be too tall for a worktable to set a 12x28 on?  I bought a sturdy worktable that is 38 inches tall.  The 12x28 is 19 inches tall, and I am 5'9" or so from top to bottom.  Maybe I've shrunk some as I have aged, I haven't measured. But I did put on a little bit more girth to make up for it.   So I'm trying to visualize where that will put the chuck and tailstock work line in relation to my eyeballs.

With the stand that would be available for the 12x28 the top of the lathe would be at 49 inches, if I remember correctly.  On the work table I have, that height will be at 57 inches.  Yeah, I know, this is one of those "it depends" sorts of questions, but I sure do hate to find out after I have drilled mounting holes and put the lathe on the table that I screwed up.  I mean, looking at the figures it SEEMS like it will be OK, but I am wondering if anyone else had this sort of issue concerning working height.

Is there a good reason why lathes tend to be low slung when on their recommended stands?  At least the ones I have looked at, anyway.


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 9, 2020)

Aukai said:


> I did not have any issues with my 1228 other than the belt should b changed ASAP, and the door closed safety mechanism worked open or closed. The spade had to be removed from the door, and slid into the receiver. To be functional one or the other would need to be relocated.



Just out of curiosity, why did your belt need to be changed ASAP?  I presume a spare one isn't included with the lathe, so did you have to buy a new one?

And is that safety lock out on the door a design flaw, or was it damaged in shipping?


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## Aukai (Oct 9, 2020)

The original belt is made in China, it kept slipping, and I kept tightening. I have seen other new owners comment on this to, as well as Precision Matthews.
The safety lock was probably drilled, and secured on ether side just enough off it did not make contact. PM pre runs the lathes, and probably puts a fake in the switch to see operations.


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## hotrats (Oct 9, 2020)

Seems the general consensus is to have the chuck center height about the same as your elbows from the floor? Don't know, guess that will vary with the individual.


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 10, 2020)

hotrats said:


> Seems the general consensus is to have the chuck center height about the same as your elbows from the floor? Don't know, guess that will vary with the individual.



I was able to find one YouTube video on this subject:





Sounds reasonable to me.  So I guess this optimum height will vary with each person.

Heck, I just ordered another work table with adjustable height. https://www.samsclub.com/p/72-inch-workbench-height-adjustable/prod22000197

That way I can adjust it to where it feels most comfortable.  The wife says she can find a use for the fixed height table somewhere.


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 10, 2020)

Aukai said:


> The original belt is made in China, it kept slipping, and I kept tightening. I have seen other new owners comment on this to, as well as Precision Matthews.
> The safety lock was probably drilled, and secured on ether side just enough off it did not make contact. PM pre runs the lathes, and probably puts a fake in the switch to see operations.



So was the defective Chinese made belt considered as a warranty replacement item by PM? Seems to me that if it is such a notable problem that it would have been replaced before being shipped out to the customer.


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## Aukai (Oct 10, 2020)

It worked as delivered, I thing the belt is a wear item that the owner is/should be responsible for. If all you do is light duty operations it might last, I was cutting cast iron, as well as 4130 checking tooling, and depth of cuts it would tolerate.


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 10, 2020)

Aukai said:


> It worked as delivered, I thing the belt is a wear item that the owner is/should be responsible for. If all you do is light duty operations it might last, I was cutting cast iron, as well as 4130 checking tooling, and depth of cuts it would tolerate.



OK, I understand.  Did you buy the replacement belt from PM, or did you have to track it down elsewhere via a part number for it?  I see in the manual that it is indicated as " O-838 Vee belt". Was that sufficient to tracking down a replacement?


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## Aukai (Oct 10, 2020)

I just took the old belt to NAPA, and got the new one.


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 11, 2020)

Can anyone with a PM 1228 lathe measure from the center of the cross slide handle dial down to the chip pan for me? I would like to have an idea of what height I need to set the work table when it comes in. I would ask PM, but I believe that they are pretty busy right about now.

Thanks.


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## bakrch (Oct 11, 2020)

I'm not familiar with the 1.5" through bore on the 1127 or 1228, but if you want to use 1.5" rod it may not fit.

On my PM1236,  1.5" rod will only fit through the chuck. The through bore measurement on my lathe is actually 1.5", so only less than that will pass through. Most other lathe I've dealt with are slightly over sized relative to the bore specification, so be sure to get an answer to this question if it's an important feature.


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 11, 2020)

bakrch said:


> I'm not familiar with the 1.5" through bore on the 1127 or 1228, but if you want to use 1.5" rod it may not fit.
> 
> On my PM1236,  1.5" rod will only fit through the chuck. The through bore measurement on my lathe is actually 1.5", so only less than that will pass through. Most other lathe I've dealt with are slightly over sized relative to the bore specification, so be sure to get an answer to this question if it's an important feature.



Yeah, that is a very good point. Perhaps someone with one of those lathes will be able to answer that question? I know I have a bunch of aluminum rods of various diameters I bought years ago, some of which are 1.5".

I know the Chinesium lathe I bought (and returned) off of Ebay was advertised as having a 1.5" spindle bore, and those 1.5" rods would not fit through it.  But I just wrote it off as being one of the MANY things wrong with that particular lathe.


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## Aukai (Oct 11, 2020)

I have a bat in the chuck right now, and can't find anything with 1.5 diameter, of course, but I'm measuring 1.54" at the backside opening. The through bore is very coarsely bored, and if properly done could be bored/smoothed out more. Will this cover the measurement you need for the 1228?


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 11, 2020)

Aukai said:


> I have a bat in the chuck right now, and can't find anything with 1.5 diameter, of course, but I'm measuring 1.54" at the backside opening. The through bore is very coarsely bored, and if properly done could be bored/smoothed out more. Will this cover the measurement you need for the 1128?


Yes!  That does nicely. Thank you for your help with that measurement.  Now I know what to shoot for in table height.

Sorry to hear that your lathe is infested with bats........


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## Aukai (Oct 11, 2020)

And look at the mess they make....


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## ttabbal (Oct 11, 2020)

My 1127 does pass a 1.5" bar through the spindle. I can feel it drag a little bit on the way, but it does go through. Can't say for any others, sample size of 1 and all that..


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## Aukai (Oct 11, 2020)

If you could protect the bearings, and run a course cylinder hone through it to smooth the bore you could get a bit more. My very opening before any grooves disrupt the bore is 1.56+


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 13, 2020)

Aukai said:


> If you could protect the bearings, and run a course cylinder hone through it to smooth the bore you could get a bit more. My very opening before any grooves disrupt the bore is 1.56+



That idea of a cylinder hone sounds like a real good idea to me.  Are you referring to the spindle bearings? Why would those bearings be in jeopardy?  I believe the spindle runs through the bearings and they are not subject to anything within the spindle tube itself.  Of course, it would likely be wise to thoroughly clean out the spindle afterwards anyway, to get out any abrasive material left behind.  But I would think that with the chuck being removed beforehand anyway, the only things really in jeopardy would be the change gears.  Using cutting fluid would help to keep the abraded material and the abrasive residue from going airborne and going places you don't want it to go.

Heck, now that I am thinking of it, I would like the inside surface of the spindle to be nice and shiny smooth anyway.


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## Aukai (Oct 13, 2020)

I just see where cast iron dust from machining can get into a gnats butt hole, I would just make everything as impervious as possible


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 13, 2020)

Aukai said:


> I just see where cast iron dust from machining can get into a gnats butt hole, I would just make everything as impervious as possible



Is the spindle made of cast iron?  if so, I may have to think a little harder about how to approach the honing idea.  Siderosis is probably not very pleasant for the lungs nor the eyes.

Or at least make sure that the metal on the inside of the spindle doesn't go dry during the honing process so little to nothing gets airborne. Of course, I would be wearing a respirator mask and eye protection anyway.


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## Aukai (Oct 13, 2020)

No, the spindle is steel, but you will be using abrasives that will wear, and migrate.


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 22, 2020)

The 1228 has shipped. Tracking shows it showing up on Friday. I am presuming that means showing up at the UPS Freight terminal in Dothan, AL, though.  So probably Monday or Tuesday before it gets moved from the UPS truck into the wife's pickup truck and then into the garage. Shipment weight is showing 695 lbs. The lathe must have gained weight since the manual shows the bare machine weight as being 490 lbs.

I am waiting for a new work table with adjustable height that is ALSO supposed to be showing up on Friday.  This one is coming via Pilot Freight Services, which has it's closest terminal in Jacksonville, FL.

Should be interesting trying to juggle things if I need to pick up BOTH of them on the same day.


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## Aukai (Oct 22, 2020)

Try to relax, and not wake up with your mind busy, and can't sleep


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 22, 2020)

Heck, I am continually thinking through the pickup and install trying to anticipate every contingency. But honestly, it doesn't keep me awake at night.  Just expect the worst, be prepared for it, then usually when the dust settles, it winds up being easier than you expected.


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 26, 2020)

Well, the PM-1228VF-LB showed up today.  Met the UPS Freight truck at the local Walmart and the guy moved the crate into the bed of my wife's truck easily with no muss or fuss.  He did have to swing it around for me so that the headstock would be in the position I would need to remove it and move it to the workbench.

Got the truck and lathe sitting in a bay in my garage right now, with the top and sides off of the crate, and the boxes of accessories removed. Superficial inspection doesn't show any damage or anything that looks out of place. One small screw missing on the backside of the head stock, and a couple of small dents on the splash shield.  BTW, I was REAL glad to see that the chip pan was bolted to the underside of the crate lid, as I was concerned that I was going to have to lift the lathe with the shop hoist just to get the chip pan out so I could mark the holes to drill in my new work table.

Need to clean off all the gunk on the metal surfaces, of course, but I will do that after I move it in place on the work table.  Not sure what would be best to remove the coating, but I'm going to give WD-40 a try first.  I watched several videos with various suggestions, one even suggesting lighter fluid. Not sure I would be enthused about that at all.

I took LOADS of photos, but haven't had time to even look at them yet. Heck, I don't even know what day it is! Things have been pretty busy lately, and I am RETIRED! I have no idea how I got anything done when I was working.

Probably will be drilling the holes in the worktable tomorrow sometime.  The rest will all be in due time.

Oh yeah, the lathe looks REALLY nice.     Much better than that POS Chinesium lathe I bought off of Ebay and sent back to the seller.


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## ttabbal (Oct 26, 2020)

I had good luck with WD40. Most of the stuff just wiped off pretty easy. Glad to hear your machine is there safely.


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## Aukai (Oct 27, 2020)

Happy times for sure, just the drudgery of setting up. Then you work on the muscle/mental memory for where things are, and how the machine sounds when it's not happy. I went past my normal machining hours tonight just to get a little bit ahead on my project. I was on a final cleanup pass, everything going great, then I reached with my hand to move some swarf that was piling up, and hit the cross slid handle digging the tool in a couple of thousands, what a pain. It's fixed, and I'm done.....Have fun soon


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## matthewsx (Oct 27, 2020)

Tired&Retired said:


> Well, the PM-1228VF-LB showed up today.  Met the UPS Freight truck at the local Walmart and the guy moved the crate into the bed of my wife's truck easily with no muss or fuss.  He did have to swing it around for me so that the headstock would be in the position I would need to remove it and move it to the workbench.
> 
> Got the truck and lathe sitting in a bay in my garage right now, with the top and sides off of the crate, and the boxes of accessories removed. Superficial inspection doesn't show any damage or anything that looks out of place. One small screw missing on the backside of the head stock, and a couple of small dents on the splash shield.  BTW, I was REAL glad to see that the chip pan was bolted to the underside of the crate lid, as I was concerned that I was going to have to lift the lathe with the shop hoist just to get the chip pan out so I could mark the holes to drill in my new work table.
> 
> ...


 
So happy to hear you ended up with something that will serve you well. Your wife was right, just get the good one and stop worrying.
Looking forward to pictures.

John


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 28, 2020)

Well, did a preliminary visual inspection of the lathe and found a few minor issues.  Nothing a show stopper, though.

Looks like a big scratch on the apron that I thought might be a crack.  A closer look makes it appear to be a scratch, but it seems apparent there has been some fixup work done there with the set screw being painted over.







Then there are a few decals missing on the headstock that should be there, based on what I have seen not only on PM's website but also on all the videos and photos I have seen.






Two screws are missing in back of the headstock holding a panel in place there.











Then I noted that the motor is only rated at 1100 watts which equates to 1.475 horsepower, whereas there is supposed to be a 2 horsepower motor in this machine.






Couple of other minor things: The 4 jaw chuck has the box gouged a bit because it was apparently shoved behind the carriage, and there is a metal shield of some sort back there that cut into the box.  I haven't opened the box yet to see if the chuck itself has gotten gouged.  Then the lever for the half nut knob had fallen off and was laying in the bottom of the crate.

Like I said, no show stoppers there, but the lack of the decals does concern me as someone just wasn't paying much attention when they opened up the crate to put the accessories inside there.  And I am not all that keen on getting a weaker motor than was shown in the manual and elsewhere.

Still haven't applied power to it nor checked any alignments.   Drilled the mounting holes into the work table yesterday, and am now reconsidering where I want to put the worktable in the garage. Which will mean taking at least a day to move things around.  Then I need to level the worktable, then move the lathe from the bed of the pickup truck onto the worktable.  Once the lathe is on the worktable, I will be cleaning all the gunk off of the lathe before doing anything else.  So I'm not expecting to apply power to the thing until maybe the weekend.

Oh, I sent messages to PM about the issues noted above, but as of yet have not received any replies.


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 29, 2020)

Matt got back to me about the issues.  He said they have discontinued putting on those decals I am missing.   But he is going to find me one, since I would like to have the model number displayed on the machine.  He wants me to check out everything thoroughly to see if there is anything else I need before sending the decal and the missing screws.  He also feels that the scratch is nothing more than that, only in the paint surface.  

Might be able to move the lathe over to the work table tomorrow.  Got the worktable in position, drilled the mounting holes and leveled the table.


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## Tired&Retired (Oct 29, 2020)

Oh, about the 1.5hp motor instead of the 2hp. Apparently this had something to do with the implementation of tariffs from China. That were apparently lifted later. So I'm not sure if this is a permanent change in the specs or if they will resume with the 2hp sometime in the future, and I just got mine at the wrong time. Matt says I won't notice any difference, but I'm thinking that the first time (if ever?) I bog down the motor by pushing it too hard, I will find myself wishing that I had the 2hp motor in there.


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## Aukai (Oct 29, 2020)

If I push the tail stock drilling in aluminum hard I can hear mine "labor" a little bit, and if I do not clear chips, and they load up it will stall. This is if I'm going past 6" with 11/16 up to 1.125. I do not have the best points on my bits too 
With the right HSS, or indexable tools reasonable DOC is not an issue, too aggressive just stresses the tools more.


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## Tim9 (Oct 29, 2020)

I’m 5’8” and I can assure anyone who’s curious about bench height.... 38” would be a bit high for me. I build my workbenches so that the top stands about 30”

28-32 would be usable but 38” would drive me crazy and probably aggravate the heck out of me.


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## Tired&Retired (Nov 9, 2020)

Been checking out this PM-1228VF-LB lathe as much as I can before really doing anything with it.  The latest thing I found is that there is apparently rust inside the camlock holes in the spindle nose.






Sorry about the shakiness of the video. Those darn borescopes are tough for me to hold onto very steadily.  

I guess the best thing to do would be to remove the camlocks and try to clean it up as best I can.  Plus check the camlocks themselves for any rust on them.  Looks like there is a socket head cap screw for each camlock, which I guess holds it in place.  Never taken one apart before, nor could I find any videos showing how to do it, so I guess it is just a plain vanilla thing to remove the cap head bolts then pull out the camlocks.  Anything that I could screw up doing that?

The inside of the spindle bore also has rust in it, but the outside surface, which I can view by removing the top cover to the head stock, is clean as a whistle.  Then while cleaning off the preservative gunk on the lathe (which sure would have been nice inside the spindle bore and those camlock holes) with WD-40, a chunk of white paint right in the center of the base in front flaked off, leaving metal showing.  Kind of red looking, but not sure if that is primer, rust, or something else.  I'll try to get pics or video of that as soon as I can process it.  Been taking a LOT of photos and videos while inspecting the lathe.  I have found that this is good to have around for reference at some later date, if needed.

The control knobs on the gear box are nearly unusable.  I about tore the skin off of my left hand trying to work the right most knob.  I then took off the lever on the half nut control knob, and that made it a LOT easier to work with.  I notified PM about the issues, but so far, no response out of them.

Anyway, the lathe looks good on the work table I set up for it, and I then stashed some tool chests underneath.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 9, 2020)

you may need to jiggle the chuck back and forth a bit when changing gears to help them mesh properly. There are no synchros in these boxes


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## Tired&Retired (Nov 9, 2020)

Manual states that you can change those gears while the motor is running, as long as you stay under 600 RPM.  So I don't think I would want to grab the chuck then to try to wiggle it.   

So I was trying to change the gears at a couple different speeds, and, well, a video is worth a couple dozen words, at least.


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## Tired&Retired (Nov 10, 2020)

Well, here is a question.  If you had rust inside of your spindle bore, what would you do about it?






Lightly hone it out?  Just oil it up and forget about it?  Something else, or nothing else?

And speaking of rust, here are the rust spots I mentioned on the base of the lathe.






The one on the front just flaked the paint off while I was wiping off the gunk using WD-40. The one on back was "as is" when I got the lathe.  It appears both will flake off more paint over time.


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## Aukai (Nov 10, 2020)

I would not be surprised if Matt did not act on this, just give him the information nicely. Line by line with your videos, to me the spindle bore is a minor issue, but it adds to the whole.


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## Tired&Retired (Nov 10, 2020)

Aukai said:


> I would not be surprised if Matt did not act on this, just give him the information nicely. Line by line with your videos, to me the spindle bore is a minor issue, but it adds to the whole.



Hmm, how nice is "nice enough" to warrant a reply from Matt?  

I will quote the latest correspondence, as I think I could have been "nice enough", but heck I don't know the calibration on the yardstick being used.  



> 11/9/2020, 3:19 PM
> 
> I haven't heard anything back from anyone about this issues I made mention of in my previous email.  So I am sending this duplicate in case it got lost in the mail. I am also attaching some pics showing the rust issues I mentioned.  I also noted quite a bit of rust in the spindle bore, and also in the camlock holes in the spindle flange.  It looks like I would just need to remove the cap head bolts on the spindle flange to remove the camlocks so I could take a stab at cleaning out the rust in the holes and also inspect the camlocks themselves for rust. Any caveats I need to be aware of when I do that?  Honestly, I am really not pleased with finding so much rust associated with the spindle. What is odd is that the outside surface has none whatsoever. So how come so much in the inside of the spindle and in that flange?  And yeah, rust flaking off the paint on the base doesn't thrill me neither.
> 
> ...



This was before I discovered the rust problem in the camlock holes on the spindle nose, btw.

Honestly, I believe that the problems are all resolvable, and I am not even close to any point thinking that I should return the lathe.  However, an unresponsive seller after the sale that would negate any sort of warranty offered, would certainly tip the scales in the other direction substantially. If I cannot get problems replied to, much less resolved, then there would be NO warranty as far as I am concerned.

I did hear that Matt was away on a business trip last week, so I imagine he has a lot on his plate this week as a result of being away, and does seemingly explain why email replies were a lot better pre-sale than they appear to now be post-sale. But I'm not throwing a red flag on the field quite yet about it, just trying to utilize another potential source of answers I need. Still, I really don't like being ignored when I am trying to get some problems addressed in a timely fashion on an expensive (to me) piece of machinery I VERY recently purchased from them.  I asked to buy levers for the gearbox control knobs, and an interlock key, as well as some matching touch up paint.  I originally asked for a label that was missing showing the model number, as shown in every other picture of this lathe I can find anywhere. The missing screws I already took care of.  I know he can't do anything about the rust problems, but I would like some guidance about how best to go about taking care of this myself. At the very least this is something I believe he should be aware of about the product he sells as it appears to me that rust prevention was a bit lacking in notable areas.  Is that at all unreasonable on my part or in any way not "nice enough" to warrant no reply from Matt or any other designated driver at that shop?

Actually had I gotten replies from Matt to the above replies, I doubt I would have much reason to be posting those questions here at all. But when I have questions, I WILL use whatever sources I can avail myself of to find the answers I need. It has been nearly a week now, that these problems have been nagging at me, after all.


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## Aukai (Nov 10, 2020)

Your doing great, it's frustrating to me when you hear good reviews, and your results differ. I'm not sure how the elections, and the virus may be affecting operations, but they do answer the phone. Good luck.


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## Tired&Retired (Nov 10, 2020)

Aukai said:


> Your doing great, it's frustrating to me when you hear good reviews, and your results differ. I'm not sure how the elections, and the virus may be affecting operations, but they do answer the phone. Good luck.



With the issues I noted, email is the only way relaying such info would work.  Attaching photos, linking to videos, quoting part numbers to reference, etc., would be impractical via phone. I guess if I used a smart phone for all my photo and video work, that might be viable, but with photography and videography being one of my other hobbies, I tend to use other more capable equipment for those tasks.

Besides, I firmly believe that if a company wants to do business on the internet, they need to do so fully. Which includes correspondence.

But anyway, back to the problems at hand, has anyone taken the camlocks out of their D1-4 spindle nose?  Looks like a simple cap head bolt holding each camlock in place, but I have sort of gotten into the comfort zone habit of seeing or reading about someone else doing such things themselves first before I tackle it.  Things like "watch out for the little ball bearing and spring!", just make things easier to know about in advance.


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## Aukai (Nov 10, 2020)

Not that it helps, but there is a shipment due in right about now. I'm waiting for my 1340GT....


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## Papa Charlie (Nov 10, 2020)

I couldn't agree more that you need to, at the very least, document your findings. But after sending all the emails, I would recommend picking up the phone and having a conversation about those emails and what you would like them to do and/or what they are able to do.


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## Tired&Retired (Nov 10, 2020)

Papa Charlie said:


> I couldn't agree more that you need to, at the very least, document your findings. But after sending all the emails, I would recommend picking up the phone and having a conversation about those emails and what you would like them to do and/or what they are able to do.



If there was something that my keeping this lathe or not hinged upon, yeah, I would be more aggressive about this.  But I am trying to be patient and allow them time to get to me in their apparent order of priority. Which, I guess doesn't put me very high on that list, but it is what it is. I am nobody special and don't expect anyone to bend over backwards just for me, but I sure don't have infinite patience neither. So I will be sending them reminders until I get their attention.  :] Truth be known, though, I sure do hope that normal for replies from them to post-sales queries isn't a week or better.

Anyway, I tried removing the camlocks on the spindle nose this afternoon, and was unsuccessful.  I was able to pull one of the retaining cap screw bolts out, and found a lock washer and spring in a recess underneath it. Figured I would only try one, since if that one wouldn't come out, no sense messing with the other two. There is definitely something serving as a detent in there, but I couldn't see anything else that I could remove.  Regardless, I could not get the camlock to slide out no matter what I tried, so I am obviously missing something significant in this process.

I don't really want to try to get too aggressive with the rust in those holes and leave any sort of grit that would get into the camlocks and their recesses, but heck, I'm not seeing a better path to take.  Seriously, I REALLY hate rust on anything.


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## Papa Charlie (Nov 10, 2020)

Tired&Retired said:


> If there was something that my keeping this lathe or not hinged upon, yeah, I would be more aggressive about this.  But I am trying to be patient and allow them time to get to me in their apparent order of priority. Which, I guess doesn't put me very high on that list, but it is what it is. I am nobody special and don't expect anyone to bend over backwards just for me, but I sure don't have infinite patience neither. So I will be sending them reminders until I get their attention.  :] Truth be known, though, I sure do hope that normal for replies from them to post-sales queries isn't a week or better.
> 
> Anyway, I tried removing the camlocks on the spindle nose this afternoon, and was unsuccessful.  I was able to pull one of the retaining cap screw bolts out, and found a lock washer and spring in a recess underneath it. Figured I would only try one, since if that one wouldn't come out, no sense messing with the other two. There is definitely something serving as a detent in there, but I couldn't see anything else that I could remove.  Regardless, I could not get the camlock to slide out no matter what I tried, so I am obviously missing something significant in this process.
> 
> I don't really want to try to get too aggressive with the rust in those holes and leave any sort of grit that would get into the camlocks and their recesses, but heck, I'm not seeing a better path to take.  Seriously, I REALLY hate rust on anything.



I can understand wanting to be patient. My comment was based on that it seemed as though you were upset with them for not replying. 

I for one, can be patient to a point. But when I spend good money on a brand new piece of equipment and find as many items as you have indicated with very little to no response from the seller, I tend to loose understanding. But that is just me. I expect a certain level of Customer Service and the more I spend the more I expect.


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## Logan Novice (Nov 17, 2020)

Hey there Tired&Retired.  VERY happy to learn that your 1228 is enroute.  I am jealous.
I ordered my *PM-1127VF-LB -DRO *yesterday*.  *With the back order issues that currently exist it looks like I won't get deliver until Jan+ 2021.


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## Aukai (Nov 17, 2020)

What was the outcome with Matt on the hard shifting?
My 1340 should be in the shop at PM soon if not there already. The ship was in port on the 13th of Nov for 1 day 21 hrs.


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## Tired&Retired (Nov 18, 2020)

Aukai said:


> What was the outcome with Matt on the hard shifting?
> My 1340 should be in the shop at PM soon if not there already. The ship was in port on the 13th of Nov for 1 day 21 hrs.



Maybe it is breaking in, or perhaps I am just getting stronger.     I did squirt some lubricant behind the control knobs, so perhaps that is helping.

Actually, I had some people suggest that I ignore that the manual is saying that I should be able to shift gears at lower speeds, and just do it with the motor off and moving the chuck by hand to get the gears to fall into alignment. That does seem to work better for me. So I just have to adjust my perspective of how to operate the gear controls, I guess.

No joy on the touch-up paint for the flaked off paint on the base. Matt says he just hasn't had any luck with trying to supply that from either the factory or an alternate source, so I'm pretty much on my own about that.  He says that perhaps I could find some automotive supplier that would match up the paint for me, but also warned me that this flaking problem will likely show up in other areas.  I guess that if it gets bad enough I may eventually try to scrape off what I can of the original paint, and then tape off everything that shouldn't be painted and try repainting everything with POR-15.  I think the lathe would look pretty darn sharp in glossy black anyway. And that POR-15 is almost like armor plating.

Perhaps they have your 1340 now, as correspondence has been real slow from them, and I am thinking they may be trying to get backorders out the door.  I sure would like to get one of those extendable armed lamps that come with the bigger lathes and put it on my 1228, so I asked Matt about the possibility of buying one from him. Seems he must be busy with something, as I haven't heard back from him.

Anyway, I still haven't cut anything with the lathe.  Been mostly just trying to get everything up to snuff, to my liking.  I still want to hone out the spindle bore up to the machined areas on the chuck end to try to get rid of the light rust in there. The hones I bought are only 8 inches long, and I need a little bit more reach than that, so I am waiting for a drill extension to get it done.  I also found a guy selling steady rest jaws with ball bearing mating surfaces that are a fairly close replacement fit for what came on this lathe. So I bought a set of them and will modify them on my mill to fit.  I just never liked the journal bearing surfaces of the steady rest and follow rest.

I never did get the camlocks out of the spindle nose, and sort of lost interest trying as other things caught my attention.


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## Aukai (Nov 20, 2020)

I have the Quasar light, and it will glare you with reflection if not angled right.








						Lamps – Wood Turners Wonders
					

Our lamps are heavy duty, high quality LED bright, energy efficient lighting. They provide illumination for up to 50,000 hours. Switchable magnetic bases make make our LED lighting ideal for a wide range of industrial applications, including machine lighting, enclosure illumination and closeup...




					woodturnerswonders.com


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## matthewsx (Nov 21, 2020)

Tired&Retired said:


> Maybe it is breaking in, or perhaps I am just getting stronger.     I did squirt some lubricant behind the control knobs, so perhaps that is helping.
> 
> Actually, I had some people suggest that I ignore that the manual is saying that I should be able to shift gears at lower speeds, and just do it with the motor off and moving the chuck by hand to get the gears to fall into alignment. That does seem to work better for me. So I just have to adjust my perspective of how to operate the gear controls, I guess.
> 
> ...



After what you went through with the eBay machine I would think you should just want to make chips and smiles....

If you want to make it the best it can be then here's your inspiration.









						PM1340 - the Best & Jacobs Full Custom Edition
					

It’s been several months since I took delivery of, and posted about my PM1340 lathe.   It's time for an update since I’m nearing completion of what started as a straight forward VFD conversion project, and then took on a life of it’s own and led to a substantial customization of the stock PM1340...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




Otherwise it's time to start posting your projects 


John


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## Sparkynutz (Mar 6, 2022)

Any update? Did they make things right? offer a partial refund for trouble and issues atleast?


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