# 1440 Automatic Feed and Threading Not Working



## Allan (Apr 28, 2022)

So I finally got my new to me 1440 lathe wired up. It is basically the same as the Warco GA1440. 

The problem is that it would not consistently work either the longitudinal feed nor the threading feed. Sometime it would but most of the time it wouldn't. The lathe is in excellent condition but has no "name" on it. A no name lathe. I suspect this problem is the reason it sat unused for many years and was finally sold. The supervisor of the sewing plant I bought it from knew nothing about it since he had not worked there for very long. I suspect it was built in the 1990's. Being in a sewing factory it did not see very heavy use and I see no signs of abuse such as dings, gouges , cracks or scratches.

When I run it with the headstock cover off I can see the input shaft gear turning fine. But I can't seem to engage the auto feeds. I thought it was because the lube levels were low and it might not be allowing things to slide on the shafts. They are sort of like an old crash box non-synchro tranny. So I drained all the old oil out and replaced it with new. Things definitely move more better now but still no joy on the auto feeds. 

Any suggestions on where to start? I am steeling myself to remove the headstock from the gearbox but I sure don't relish the prospect. Is it possible to remove the headstock without draining it? The grainy old line drawings are a bit of problem for aging eyes. but I'll go through those as well. I'm hoping it is just a pin has sheared or dropped out. 

Also, any idea what the cryptic warning, " No Locking No Running" on the direction selector might be telling me? Might the vagueness of this term be responsible for the problem that is manifesting itself?


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## matthewsx (Apr 29, 2022)

Looks like you might be missing a gear, normally there’s one driven off the spindle that drives the feed gearbox. Here’s a video that might be helpful.






John


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## mksj (Apr 29, 2022)

Is it the output shaft/gear of the headstock is not engaging the drive to the gearbox, or is it a problem in the gearbox. Most likely the headstock shifting forks are not in the correct position and need to be adjusted. In addition when engaging the drive/gearbox you often need to apply pressure to the shifting selector while manually turning the spindle and feel the gears engage. With a new lathe it can often be stiff and require a bit of force to get the shifter into position. If you do not feel them snap into engagement you will either be between gears and also hopefully not have them locked. This was a very common lathe rebranded as YCL and GH in the 1340/1440/1640 models. They were and still sold under many different brand names link Birmingham and Kent. They came with both a single speed and dual speed motor.




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						14″ swing YCL Lathe – Birmingham Lathes
					





					www.birminghamlathes.com
				




You feed selector does not look to be fully engaged, yours is slightly angled down and should be slightly angled up.


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## jcp (Apr 29, 2022)

The gear train looks correct according to page 17 of the manual linked by MKSJ. He is also probably correct in that the gear selectors are between being engaged. Also it's possible that someone prior to your ownership has sheared the feed shaft shear pin or the coupling at the gearbox/feed shaft connection.


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## Allan (Apr 29, 2022)

Thanks, guys.

The external gear train IS engaged. As I said originally the input shaft gear at the bottom front of the gearbox is turning. The belts go up to the rear of the headstock and input power there. Through internal gears it transmits this motion to the lower front of the headstock and powers the gearbox through the small gear on the red sector arm in the picture. 

Yeah, the detent positions are somewhat vague all around. Yes, I have to rock the chuck to get them to line up sometimes. The feed selector may have just been left in an in between position unintentionally but i have fiddled with all knobs and lever many times but no position seems to work. The weird thing is that the first few times I played with it it did work and then became erratic and finally has stopped completely. 

I'm guessing that this problem is the reason the unit sat unused for many years and was ultimately sold. That is always the problem when buying something unknown and not wired up. But he condition was so good- almost unused - that at the price they were asking I couldn't say no. If I have to put a few hundred bucks into it would still be a steal of a deal. 


MKSJ, your mentioning of that feed lever has me thinking a bit more clearly. I am thinking that it is not just the longitudinal feed that does not work but also the threading rod also does not turn. If the treading rod turned but not the longitudinal feed the problem would more likely be in the gearbox. The fact the neither turn makes me thing it may be  in the headstock.

Maybe I will pull the top cover off the headstock and see what is going on onside. And I just filled it with fresh oil. Gadzooks!

Any ideas on that cryptic wording on the gearbox plate: No Locking No Running ?


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## Allan (Apr 29, 2022)

Okay. I went out to the shop (AKA garage) and took another look. The threading selection lever ( the one on the far right of the gearbox above the threading chart with indicators from C to F) does not move into all positions. It can be quite hit and miss. Even jogging or rocking the chuck does not guarantee that things go into position. It seems that the position from centre "O"  (neutral I assume?) to F almost never engage. Might have to drain that gear box and see what is behind door number one. Is it possible to view inside it without removing the front cover that also would remove the control handle from operation?


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## jcp (Apr 29, 2022)

Remove the lid......should be able to see all shafts and shifters.You could have a sheared pin in one of the shift forks....


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## Allan (Apr 29, 2022)

The lid will give me access to the headstock but not the gearbox underneath. It appears that I can either drain the gearbox and remove the front control plate casting or I can remove the headstock from the gearbox. Neither one really thrills me. The problem with pulling the front plate is that the selector lever goes with it and I will not be able to see how it function in situ.


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## markba633csi (Apr 29, 2022)

Looks like you might be able to remove the electrical panel above and peer in? 
I wouldn't think you would need to remove the whole headstock
-M


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## mksj (Apr 29, 2022)

I think you are missing the point on what I am asking. Is this gear turning or not. Clearly your feed selector in the headstock is not in the correct position (see video below), so if the gear shown is intermittent then issue is in the headstock not the gearbox and has to do with the headstock output feed direction. The A and B selector sets the drive output speed range, the lever unerneath it it sets the feed direction left or right. See if it engages in the other direction.

You currently have the gearbox in neutral "O" position so I would not expect movement of either gearbox output shaft. The feed/lead screw lever in the lower right , position "F" and "D" are for the feed rod, position "E" and "C" are for the lead screw. There is also another gear selector in the lower left corner that is not set correctly. You need to systematically follow the drive and see where it is problem issue as opposed to tearing everything apart.


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## Allan (Apr 29, 2022)

*MKSJ, yes the gear is turning. Along with the gearbox input shaft gear. They are all connected so it one turns the other turns.* (Sorry, hit the bold button by accident). The position of controls in the picture don't mean much since I have tried various things at various time and moved them all. That was just the last position I had them in for whatever reason. Don't recall what if anything specific I was doing at that point. 

Your manual is a lot more informative than the Warco one I downloaded. 

The feed selector (H in your manual) does not move into the E or F positions. I suspect that is where the problem lies. But even when it is put into the A or B position nothing happens. IT doesn't feel like a positive detent or I should say it is not consistently a positive detent. I suspect that the bell crank inside is loose on the shaft or something and even if it does go into some semblance of a detent it may not actually be in position. It is hard to figure out how it works from the parts diagram exploded drawings. 

Markba, I tried removing the electrical panel but it only goes into a cavity between the headstock and gearbox. The gearbox has some thin  metal cover plates to prevent seeing inside. To remove those I have to remove the headstock.


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## mksj (Apr 29, 2022)

So it that is the case, then it is the shifting mechanism in the gearbox. It should be removed w/o removing the headstock, there is usually a series of mounting bolts and dowel pins that would be accessed behind the face plate. There are two removable access plates on the top of the gearbox that can be removed to look at the gear movement. Most likely the issue is either a misalignment of the shifting plates or someone forced the gear selectors and sheared a pin so you are not getting the proper movement. Not a small under taking to dissemble a gearbox like this and get it back together.


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## John O (Apr 29, 2022)

try turning the lead/feed rods when moving the knob into the e/f position.
If the lock knob isn't locked in rock the shafts to lock it.
It is the same as Busybee CT042 which is Jet GH-1440A


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## Allan (Apr 29, 2022)

MKSJ, that diagram shows the plates but it does not show the whole picture. The headstock is bolted on top of the gear box so those plates cannot be removed until one removes the headstock. Indeed, not a small undertaking. I guess I 'll have to get up close and personal and invade its personal circle. O joy!


John O, I'll give that a try but I have my doubts. I can't get the knob to move past the neutral position at all. But its worth a try.


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## mksj (Apr 29, 2022)

You could call Birmingham Machine Tools and speak to technical. You cannot determine how the gearbox is mounted unless you have removed the face plates, the lathes I have had the they were bolted to the headstock, typically they could be removed separately. The front plate of the gearbox/shifter mechanism may come off, but reassembling it may be the bigger issue. You probably answered your own question when you indicated you could not get the gearbox out of neutral.


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## Allan (Apr 29, 2022)

From scoping out said lathe and looking at the manual it appears that the headstock is held to the gearbox with 4 Allen bolts. Two on the chuck end and two at the outer end on the outside. I don't believe there are any bolts passing through the inside form one to the other. If there were then the headstock oil might run down into the gearbox making the former run dry while overfilling the latter. They appear to be tow separate and sealed units.

I agree that removing the face plate would make reassembling it difficult to say the least. I'll ponder the headstock removal task a bit more.

I tried rotating the feed screws with some luck but then the knob stuck in the E position and wouldn't go back into the A side.


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## mksj (Apr 29, 2022)

I did an extensive VFD install on one of these lathes, I am pretty sure that the headstock is not removed to remove the gearbox. The head bolts to the the bed with 4 bolts they are on the outside of the headstock (you can see the two on the chuck side), which is typical of most lathes in this size group. The front electrical panel comes off as well as the cover panel on the chuck side. You should be able to see the gearbox and how it is mounted. The red circles are retaining screws for the side cover and face plates, the blue arrows are the oil site gauges for the headstock and the gearbox, I assume that you have checked there is oil in both.


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## Allan (Apr 29, 2022)

Here are couple of pix showing what I think are the attachment bolts:



Under the Headstock at the rear. The other one is behind the large gear.







The gearbox cover plates behind the electrical panel. Mounting screw are marked black with a felt marker.










Front bolts under the chuck in recesses.


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## Provincial (Apr 30, 2022)

Before you tear into anything, it would be a good idea to check out one simple item.

In mksj's post #10, the very first photo shows the gear train on the back of the headstock.  The small gear at the very bottom is the one that transfers the power into the gearbox.  It is retained by a nut on the end of the shaft.  Make sure that the shaft is rotating when the gears are rotating.  The key that transfers the power from the gear to the shaft may be sheared or missing.

This is kind of a long shot, but worth checking before diving into the gear box.

I know that the Jet BDB and GHB 1340 lathe manuals are available free online.  I believe the gearboxes are either the same or very similar to the 1440 lathes.  The parts illustrations are very informative.


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## Firstram (Apr 30, 2022)

I replaced the bearings in my 13" Jet BDB gear box, it's not that difficult to work on. Just shift everything to the center position before pulling the cover to inspect (drain the oil first).


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## Allan (May 1, 2022)

I'll check into these suggestions further.


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