# What Quick Change Tool Post For My Logan 11"



## RonRock

I'm about to pull the trigger on a QCTP for my Logan 11".  I will most likely go with the Phase II. Unless you point me in a better direction. I don't have the budget or the need to spend the coin on an Aloris, so I think a Phase II or similar will work for me. Maybe a Shars?

Anyway the real reason for the thread. From what I have read there is some overlap in QCTP size for lathe swing. Looks to me like I could use either an AXA or BXA size. I haven't found any information as to how to determine which is "best" for the lathe.

Any advice on how to choose one over the other? I have read many threads discussing the difference between "piston" and "wedge" types. So have decided on the wedge type. But size and manufacture are still undecided.

Thanks,
Ron


----------



## wa5cab

You have an 11" swing lathe and if you believe what you read in the catalogs, you could use either an AXA or a BXA.  But the important criteria is actually the clearance (half the swing) between the spindle axis and the mounting flat on the compound slide, which is never given in any lathe specs that I've seen.  This is the figure that actually tells you how high the cutter needs to be.  The other figure usually given is swing over cross slide, which isn't much help, either.  Especially if you have a situation like on the 3/8" bed Craftsman 12". where over the years, the figure varies, even though no change was made to the parts after about 1938!

On my late Atlas 12". the clearance over compound is about 1-3/16".  So the cutter tip needs to be (on my machine) 1-3/16" above the bottom of the QCTP.  If you are using 3/8" square cutter blanks, given that the cutter tip is generally (except for boring bars) about even with the top of the cutter blank, the bottom of the blank and the surface of the bottom of the slot in the cutter holder needs to be about 13/16" above the compound.  The AXA works nicely with these figures, with a comfortable distance between the top of the compound and the bottom of the cutter holders.  So the QCTP can be mounted in the center of the compound slot where it belongs.  I suspect, although I don't have one to confirm with, that the BXA holder would hit the top of the compound unless the TP were mounted off-center to the left.  And you would probably have problems with facing cuts since you can't move the TP much in that direction.

So compare the figure for clearance over the compound on your 11" to 1-3/16".

I'll add what I usually add that at least with the Atlas 10" and 12" (and Craftsman 12"), you can divide the people who bought a BXA into two groups - those who say that they wish that they had bought the AXA and those who wish it but won't admit it.

As to brand, the only one that I am familiar with is Yuasa, which you can't buy any more.  As to piston versus wedge, the Yuasa is piston and is still working fine after more than 30 years.  However, it has a rectangular piston head.  Most of the Chinese ones are cylindrical, so less contact area and less effective height and width.  If I had to buy a Chinese made one, I would look for the most expensive one and unless it had a rectangular piston, go with the wedge type.  But whatever you do, don't buy one with an aluminum TP.


----------



## RonRock

WOW! Very helpful answer. 

Looks like it is as I suspected, bigger isn't always better. Like most (I assume) I was thinking the larger size would be good for rigidity. But was concerned as to how it would actually fit my lathe. 

Thank you for the explanation. I will do some measuring, then most likely order an AXA.

Cheers,
Ron


----------



## gr8legs

Here's another vote for the AXA size - and wedge style. That's what I had on my Atlas 12" and it was perfect - now that I have traded up to a larger lathe and can see the size/height of the BXA in comparison it was the right choice. 

If you get a larger lathe in the future you can keep the AXA and adapt it (new bolt, T-Nut and maybe a riser plate) so you aren't re-tooling 100%

Stu


----------



## Ulma Doctor

:+1: on the AXA, it's the perfect size for lathes under 13" swing
i own 3 different AXA's, from 3 different Import manufacturers.
a wedge and 2 piston types.
they all perform very well.
the wedge i have is a little quirky, the tightener handle placement prevents easy loading of the toolholder for facing but with fiddleing for a couple seconds it'll drop on. i just have learned to deal with it
both of my piston types operate flawlessly.
i have not personally ever ran into a rigidity problem with import toolholders, only lathe rigidity problems.
a new toolholder and toolpost will not make up for a worn or maladjusted machine, no matter what brand or style you decide to go with!
i wish the best of luck!


----------



## wa5cab

I forgot to add, although I can't seem to find an ad today, that there was a seller on eBay selling an extended height slot AXA tool holder that will hold 5/8" square tools on an AXA TP.  I bought a couple of them last year just to have.


----------



## RonRock

Hey guys, I'll bump this rather than start a new thread. 

I ended up with a Phase II, AXA tool post. Now that leads to another question.

What tool holder would you suggest with this tool post and my 11" Logan? I have never used anything other than my old Lamp post tool holder, so I'm in completely new territory for me. But I do like the ease of the replaceable bit holders. At least they look like the way to go. But I don't know anything about them.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Ron


----------



## gmcken

I went with the Aloris  AXA wedge tool system for the South Bend Heavy ten.  Aloris puts on a sale ever so often and you can save several dollars. I used the lantern system for many years, got tired of the time to make tool changes.  If you try an Aloris, I don't think you will reget.  Note: I am not connected with Aloris other than end user of their tools and holders.


----------



## wa5cab

Ron,

By "holder", do you mean the dove-tail block that fits the QCTP?  Or the (typically 3/8") square holder for the replacable carbide inserts (or the 3/8" square brazed cutters)?

If the former, you will need several of the #101 Turning and Facing holders (QCTP Sets typically only come with one, which leaves you not much better off than with the lantern tool post).  I currently have I think 12, a couple not yet used).  The #102 Turning, Facing and Boring holder is in most cases usable in place of the $101.  I would also get one #116 Turning and Facing replaceable insert holder.  And a good supply of inserts for it.  Note that besides ones made for different style inserts, I have seen two styles of the #116.  The Aloris, Yuasa and one other that I forget the maker of have the replaceable triangular inserts oriented such that you can turn or face up to a shoulder.  The other style has the insert rotated 30 deg. CW and you cannot cut a shoulder unless you rotate the QCTP or Compound 30 deg. CCW from where it normally should be.  I.e., you QCTP will have to be at an angle to the machine axis, and you cannot part off of cut a groove without rotating the QCTP.  Which destroys the accuracy of your setup.

If the latter, there are just too many choices.  My collection was probably driven more by what sets were on sale than anything else.  I would suggest buying one or two of the cheap sets of 3/8" square brazed assortments.  These typically come in five styles - AR, AL, BR, BL, C, D and E.  A with five or ten of each.  I keep one modified Style D 80 deg. cutter mounted in a #101 holder like a facing tool (pointed at the headstock) for use for chamfering and beveling.  For use on the ID of a part, you will probably have to grind increased front and left side clearance for small holes.  I am still using one that I modified for this purpose 30+ years ago.


----------



## Charles Spencer

I like to buy the tool holders from Shars because the prices are good and they say Shars instead of China.  You will probably want to get several of the first one listed.  It holds tools up to 5/8".  It seems like you can hardly ever have too many of them.

http://www.shars.com/boring-turning-and-facing-holder-2-type-102-xl-axa

http://www.shars.com/heavy-duty-boring-bar-holder-4-and-41-type141-axa


And lately I've been buying insert holders straight from this place in China:

http://www.banggood.com/SCLCR1616H0...-Holder-With-CCMT09T304-Insert-p-1053303.html

http://www.banggood.com/MGEHR1212-2...-Cut-with-4pcs-MGMN200-Inserts-p-1053298.html

http://www.banggood.com/SNR0016Q16-...urning-Tool-Holder-with-Wrench-p-1061082.html


----------



## wa5cab

Although the 102 holder works OK with 3/8" and 1/2" cutters, I wouldn't try to put 5/16" or 1/4" ones in it as their left side will be unsupported.  I would recommend having maybe two or three 102's but buy 101's for your extras.  Most of them will spend their lives holding one cutter that you don't use too often but when you need it you need it.

For the beveling cutter, you can use the back end of the knurling holder.  Or at least on mine, I can.  It's another one that you don't need all the time but when you need it, you need it now.


----------



## Charles Spencer

wa5cab said:


> Although the 102 holder works OK with 3/8" and 1/2" cutters, I wouldn't try to put 5/16" or 1/4" ones in it as their left side will be unsupported.



Good point.  I agree.


----------



## RonRock

Thanks guys. Yes the insert holders were what I was asking about. But still learning about the AXA tool post holder itself, so any information is helpful. It's easy to make expensive mistakes when learning.


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  Then I would suggest that you buy a set of the 3/8" square brazed turning tools (with spares) in both C2 and C5 grade carbide (C5 is generally for steel and alloy and C2 for non-ferrous).  Learn with them while you get up to speed on some of what's available in replaceable inserts (both holders and inserts) and start saving for a No, 116 insert holder.  The 101 and 102 holders are cheap.  The 116 is relatively expensive and not made by many companies.


----------



## ColoMid

I just tonite finished rebuilding my Logan model 1955H (1963 vintage).
My first test was to turn a piece of HRS with an insert tool and to verify that the lathe
would in fact work with 1/2" brazed and insert tooling as the height is very close to maxing out
to get on center. This is using AXA/100 style tool post and tool holders.
There is not much vertical room to spare as it turns out.  I suspect a BXA would not work out.
I borrowed the tool post of my South Bend 9A, so I'm in the market for another.
The T nuts are not compatible.
RichD, Canton, Ga


----------

