# You know - like when the reel has just dropped! :(



## graham-xrf (Apr 10, 2021)

.. and broken .. and you now have a tangle!

It does not matter what kind of reel, cotton, fishing line, guy rope, they all mangle up in a similar way.
In my case, a new full reel of 1mm2 insulated copper wire, a gift of industrial surplus that does have future use for me.
The reel is (approx in inches) about 10" diameter, with middle metal section 4" diameter, and 4" between the side cheeks.

It drops, and POW - one of the cardboard side cheeks comes away from the rolled tin metal middle. Hundreds of loops of wire go spilling across the garage, forming special sorts of tangle knots as the larger outer loops leave the smaller loops behind.  That size reel is bigger and heavier than the usual 100m. I just don't know how much was on there.    Oh dash and darn it!  (+ further expressions of a more robust nature)!

Given the mess, and the time and effort to get it back, it might have been better to just put the whole lot in the trash, but I was unable to summon up enough environmental indifference! I scooped what loops were still a bit together onto a piece of broomstick, and stood it across a pair of axle stands at max height. Then, using a similar reel donated from another reel that was about empty, I found an end, and started undoing the Father and Mother of a tangle. Passing the (getting heavy) reel under and over the broomstick, and between spools of wire on the floor is becoming an upper body workout! I see it there. It offends the eye. At the times I can, I recover some more onto the "new" reel. Oh yes - it has to go on the new reel "kinda tidy", though not altogether perfect at the sides.

Is the need to get all that wire back onto a reel some kind of "waste not, want not" OCD that does not yet have a name, and I am the only one who has it?


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## pdentrem (Apr 10, 2021)

We had that happen with a spool of 0.004” EDM wire. Just tossed it into the recycle bin.
Pierre


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## markba633csi (Apr 10, 2021)

Been there, done that.  Unfortunately haven't made much use of the wire I rescued, but couldn't bear to toss it at the time
-M


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## savarin (Apr 10, 2021)

Got sick of the tangle my 5Kg spool of .6 mig wire made when I dropped it that I just cut it off at the spool then started winding the tangle as tight onto it self as I could then dumped it.
The little I managed to re wind went rusty later so that also had to be dumped.
Made me realise that the second impulse to dump it was the correct one.


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## RJSakowski (Apr 10, 2021)

I inherited a 1/4 mile spool of 5/16" steel cable used by a cable TV company for stringing their cable. They had apparently dropped the spool and broke the cheek on one side with cable spilling off.  They tossed it rather than try to straighten the mess out.  With care, I was able to respool the cable and salvage it.  It came in handy for many projects over the years.

I had long ago come to the conclusion that wire, rope, fishing line, and cable wee actually sentient beings with a perverse sense of humor.  Some of the knots that they tied were actually quite beautiful in their intricacy.  Disentangling or untieing requires a large amount of patience, sometimes more than I am willing to deploy.  I rest assured in the knowledge that what was done can be undone.  As long as you don't start threading ends through the loops, that is.  Oh, and I forgot to add Christmas lights to the list.

I have several packs of spring steel wire, the cardboard containers for which have long since disintegrated.  The heavier gauges have transformed into three dimensional balls.  The .007" is better behaved but a 1" lb. spool of .007" wire has an awful lot of coils.  I  can't ever find the ends of the coil so I usually just make a random cut and unthread what I need. so far, I haven't ended up with a short length resulting from a previous cut.

One last one that any farmers can relate to is baler twine.  It comes in a 20,000 ft. spool.  I use the term spool loosely as there is no central spindle. In use, it dispenses from the center, usually without incident but should it be dropped or some critter decide to winter over in it, you can end up with a 20,000 ft. mess.  At least the newer polypropylene is less prone to tangling.  The older sisal twine would swell up with humidity and the inner windings would mushroom out  rendering the whole spool useless..


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## graham-xrf (Apr 11, 2021)

RJSakowski said:


> I inherited a 1/4 mile spool of 5/16" steel cable used by a cable TV company for stringing their cable. They had apparently dropped the spool and broke the cheek on one side with cable spilling off.  They tossed it rather than try to straighten the mess out.  With care, I was able to respool the cable and salvage it.  It came in handy for many projects over the years.
> 
> I had long ago come to the conclusion that wire, rope, fishing line, and cable wee actually sentient beings with a perverse sense of humor.  Some of the knots that they tied were actually quite beautiful in their intricacy.  Disentangling or untieing requires a large amount of patience, sometimes more than I am willing to deploy.  I rest assured in the knowledge that what was done can be undone.  As long as you don't start threading ends through the loops, that is.  Oh, and I forgot to add Christmas lights to the list.
> 
> ...


I can relate to all you have said, and you have had the satisfaction of using those material resources.

Baler twine dispenses best out of the twine dispenser on the baler, but if you just have the reel, and take it out of the centre, there comes a point where it can't support what is left of the sides, and it falls over as you pull, and .. tangle! I live backed onto a farm. I get to keep what I can untangle, when I need any.

Taking paper roll wipe out of the centre is also prone to the "collapse" point. I deliberately take from the outer. In my case, the insulated wire is a dual problem of tangle + wrecked reel. Even if there had been zero tangle, the problem of how to get that amount of unsupported wire back onto another reel is not easy.

The thing is, I have gone past the half-way point toward recovery. A long time ago, my Dad told me that if one gets that far, even on something that that turns out to be very slow going, you have to press on to finish. The "give up" point may not be in the second half, because you have already proven you can win. Hmm.. sometimes I have my doubts about that!


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## brino (Apr 11, 2021)

Graham,

I recently got a box of MIG wire spools that I had ordered and found nothing but the raw spools banging around in the box....no padding, no paper, no bubble wrap. It was four or five 2-lb rolls of wire. Three spools were obviously broken.








The other spools were also broken when examined closely.

Luckily in this case I was able to send back and get refunded........for the pain of packing them up properly (so I couldn't be blamed) and dropping them at the shipping depot.

A hundred dollars worth of new welding wire.
What a waste!

-brino


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## cathead (Apr 11, 2021)

I have a 50 pound roll of stainless steel wire about 25 to 30 thousandths thick.  I would have to think it is for MIG welding.  
There is nothing wrong with the spool and it is a full reel of the stuff.  I would guess several miles at least...
Maybe I will use some of it for an electric fence if nothing else.


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## tq60 (Apr 11, 2021)

Good for lots things.

Wind chimes, hanging things in the yard

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## graham-xrf (Apr 12, 2021)

cathead said:


> I have a 50 pound roll of stainless steel wire about 25 to 30 thousandths thick.  I would have to think it is for MIG welding.
> There is nothing wrong with the spool and it is a full reel of the stuff.  I would guess several miles at least...
> Maybe I will use some of it for an electric fence if nothing else.


SS  lock wire is useful. You have to pay for such stuff if you have anything to do with aircraft work.
But..
If for MIG, it is a tad on the thin side. The usual is 0.8mm. Your 0.030" is 0.762mm.
You do get 0.6mm standard size SS MIG wire, which is 0.023", so you could be right about it.

In all of these, the weight of the reel contents threatens the strength of the reel itself.  In my ill considered "recovery", the salvaged amount is now around 75%, and the cardboard sides of the reel are not taking it well. Maybe I will attempt a picture.


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## cathead (Apr 12, 2021)

graham-xrf said:


> SS  lock wire is useful. You have to pay for such stuff if you have anything to do with aircraft work.
> 
> 
> This wire is a little too hard for aircraft safety wire.  If one tries to twist it significantly, it breaks, unlike aircraft safety wire which twists and holds together.


I have to think it is MIG wire or possibly something else.


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## graham-xrf (Apr 12, 2021)

cathead said:


> I have to think it is MIG wire or possibly something else.


That situation is truly depressing.  
Unless you twist pieces lightly together, and use for TIG, it's hard to see how you could recycle it.
Getting useful lengths out of a tangle of that stuff and onto even a small size MIG reel seems unlikely!


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## cathead (Apr 12, 2021)

graham-xrf said:


> That situation is truly depressing.
> Unless you twist pieces lightly together, and use for TIG, it's hard to see how you could recycle it.
> Getting useful lengths out of a tangle of that stuff and onto even a small size MIG reel seems unlikely!



My stainless wire is wrapped on a metal cage and in perfect condition so would be usable fore MIG if that is what it is. 
I don't have a MIG but could TIG with it I suppose but so far have had no use to weld on stainless steel.


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## Bi11Hudson (Apr 12, 2021)

My brother had a couple "lashers" for tying communications cable to a support strand. The lashing wire is the size of AWG16 (without insulation), is stainless steel, and comes in unbound rolls to fit into the lasher. Since the lashing is fixed at each pole, when a pole is reached and the wire "looks" too short to reach the next pole, a new roll is installed. Like most craftsmen, nothing gets thrown out, but usually ends up in a back corner, a couple of wraps wound around the coil to hold it together. Some were short, some were a couple of hundred feet long. In a rush job with long pole spans, long coils were not unusual.

I, of course, got first refusal when the warehouse was cleaned out. And never refused. Those shorts were usable for things up to fencing several acres. Splicing with a linesman splice assures good continuity for electric fencing. Shorter pieces often got used by the foot to tie anything that needed tying. Sadly, the source has dried up. Brother no longer takes such contracts. But I still have several coils shorts on hand. 

Most anything has a purpose beyond what it is manufactured for. It's just a matter of finding that use. I use welding wire for remote actuauors from a barrel bolt. It is rather stiff so doesn't round corners well, but for straight applications is usually my solution of choice. I buy the cheap Horrible Fright .032 wire, ~1/32", 0.8mm. And keep a couple of rolls on hand in case one is lost or so damaged it needs downtime to untangle. *Never throw anything away*. Storage space can somehow be found.

.


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## graham-xrf (Apr 13, 2021)

Bi11Hudson said:


> My brother had a couple "lashers" for tying communications cable to a support strand. The lashing wire is the size of AWG16 (without insulation), is stainless steel, and comes in unbound rolls to fit into the lasher. Since the lashing is fixed at each pole, when a pole is reached and the wire "looks" too short to reach the next pole, a new roll is installed. Like most craftsmen, nothing gets thrown out, but usually ends up in a back corner, a couple of wraps wound around the coil to hold it together. Some were short, some were a couple of hundred feet long. In a rush job with long pole spans, long coils were not unusual.
> 
> I, of course, got first refusal when the warehouse was cleaned out. And never refused. Those shorts were usable for things up to fencing several acres. Splicing with a linesman splice assures good continuity for electric fencing. Shorter pieces often got used by the foot to tie anything that needed tying. Sadly, the source has dried up. Brother no longer takes such contracts. But I still have several coils shorts on hand.
> 
> ...


I do this too!
During installing high power servo kit, there came the need to strip the ends of the 95mm^2 power cable. This stuff is heavy. One guy can reasonably manage a 6ft length. It came off the reel on the back of the truck, and onto industrial version "roller skates", and the business end had to be hauled up the side of the building with a crane. The SWA armour wire under the jacket is galavanized steel wire, and we had 15ft to 20ft lengths of it. It did not get dumped. All of it has lived in my garage over several years, getting "used up" in various ways, mostly on the farm out back. I think quite a lot of the fencing and barriers repairs used most of it. About 3 weeks ago, there was no more use for the last 2ft, which finally went to the tip.

Some folk cannot abide anything "extra" around them. A future need that may never come does not interest them. Sometimes they will throw out something , and have to buy it again 6 weeks later e.g. a 5-litre can of Mobil-1 costing near £48.

I do agree that one should never get too much of stuff that will deteriorate anyway. e.g."Gripfill" structural adhesive will go hard in the tube, even if unopened. PVA solvent free type will keep for years. Various paint will not remain paint, and some will rust through the can from the inside. Chuck it out!

I have to go through my place rooting out various fluids that have stood too long. Does that bottle of brake fluid/Citroen hydraulic suspension fluid remain good? Probably not, and I am unsure if the remains are useful. But.. I will not throw out those used brake discs. There are at least two lathe projects that will appreciate the donation. One can use the centre hub. The other can use the disc outer. The cast pad backs will be used for welding practice with ENiFe-C 55% nickel rod to train up the technique before I take parts of my lathe past the point of no return.

I am not overly OCD (I don't think). There are parts of my place that are hopelessly untidy, though I am trying hard to improve things. Quite a lot of it is valuable stuff I am recycling. Not compulsive hoarding by any means, but I think I recycle most of stuff that has real manufactured value.


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## Janderso (Apr 13, 2021)

I learned all about mig wire spools the hard way 
It seems the only way I learn.
Brino, bummer man.


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## graham-xrf (Apr 13, 2021)

*OK - I am ultimately the winner!*
At one stage, most of what is now on the reel was all over the floor!
The bits on the broomstick was what I managed to keep together. There is still some to go, but I claim victory! So far, the loss is about one inch which I cut off to strip and count the strands. 31 x 0.2mm.


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## Flyinfool (Apr 13, 2021)

I would glue some reinforcement on those cardboard ends before proceding, About the time you get nearly done, one of them will let go and you get to start over.


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## graham-xrf (Apr 13, 2021)

Flyinfool said:


> I would glue some reinforcement on those cardboard ends before proceding, About the time you get nearly done, one of them will let go and you get to start over.


You are absolutely right about that. The way the ends near the cheeks stay stable and in place is only because of the tabs of masking tape wound over, then folded back, in the style if the cloth tabs they use in winding transformers. Otherwise, the windings near the cheeks tend to slip into the gaps between the wire and the reel sides.  I did not happen to have a reel with plywood cheeks, and these cardboard types flop over even on the weight of the cable that is in them, which is why I leave it on the broomstick.

I would not do this again, but having gone this far, I am determined to get back all the wire that messed up in fractions of a second, bounced all over the garage!

I will glue something on as soon as I can get some cut. After this mess, one by one, I will be eliminating the rest of the messed up stuff in there. In the end, I mean to have a place where I can find everything, and not keep tripping over stuff!

So - contact glue? Should it go all the way to epoxy?


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## Flyinfool (Apr 13, 2021)

The cardboard is wrinkled enough that you may not get a good contact with either epoxy or contact cement. For this I would use Gorrila glue since it has great gap filling ability when it foams up. make sure it is well clamped or weighted so the glue does not spread it apart when it foams. I light mist of water on one surface will ensure that the glue gets a good foam on. Plan for foamed glue to come out of all of the edges, once cured it is hard to remove. I would make the ID of the ply cheeks smaller than the core ID to allow 3 or 4 bolts to run thru just to make sure it stays together for life.


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## graham-xrf (Apr 13, 2021)

Flyinfool said:


> The cardboard is wrinkled enough that you may not get a good contact with either epoxy or contact cement. For this I would use Gorrila glue since it has great gap filling ability when it foams up. make sure it is well clamped or weighted so the glue does not spread it apart when it foams. I light mist of water on one surface will ensure that the glue gets a good foam on. Plan for foamed glue to come out of all of the edges, once cured it is hard to remove. I would make the ID of the ply cheeks smaller than the core ID to allow 3 or 4 bolts to run thru just to make sure it stays together for life.


Good advice! I happen to have the very stuff. Now that I have invested more of me than the reel was probably worth, I do not intend to lose it all from carelessness.


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