# Wanting to power a lead screw



## mrbreezeet1

I want to power the lead screw on my Logan lathe, as I have no QCGB, and of course, will go back to the gears if I want to do any threading. 
I have this controller, but don't know a lot about it, I need to know if anyone knows what motor I need to use this controller. 
I am pretty sure this is a PWM controller, as talked about in this thread. 
anyone know anything about this controller. 
Google search did not come up with too much, although I am still looking. 
here is the pictures of the controller. 
it is 120 Volt input. 




8ntsane said:


> Phil
> 
> As allready mentioned, wiper motors, power window motors, power seat  motors could be possible. It probably will be a load thing as to how hot  they will run. As far as I know, window & seat motors are for  intermitant use, and could be a hit and miss as to what brand will do  the job.
> 
> Ive allready mentioned stepper motors, and are available for most any  application you could think of for a lathe. In the USA and Canada they  are not super expensive either.
> 
> http://www.kelinginc.net/ for steppers and power supply.
> 
> http://sdp-si.com/ for the timing belts/ pulleys, and couplers


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## JimDawson

That is probably not the controller you want to use for a lead screw drive.  That is basically a fancy ceiling fan speed controller.  Used to control vibratory feeders.  It would work pretty good to control a fan.  It uses phase angle control, not PWM.


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## mrbreezeet1

*Re: wnating to power a lead screw*

OK, I see, Thank you, 
is there a good one on say e bay, that I could use with either a window motor, or would I be better off with a tread mill motor. Can I get a controller that will work with a tread mill cheap on e bay?
I know where I can get a tread mill motor, but he does not have the controller. 
I could get the motor for next to nothing. 
I don't know the specs of the motor yet. (tread mill motor)
Someone said "ford" window motors. Why is ford better than say Chevy?


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## mrbreezeet1

JimDawson said:


> That is probably not the controller you want to use for a lead screw drive.  That is basically a fancy ceiling fan speed controller.  Used to control vibratory feeders.  It would work pretty good to control a fan.  It uses phase angle control, not PWM.



Does this give you an A/C output, Like you would plug a regular fan into it?
It does have a regular 110V outlet on it. 
Like you would plug into a wall.


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## JimDawson

A treadmill motor might be a bit of overkill for the lead screw drive.  It would make a great spindle drive motor.  There are a lot of treadmill motor controllers on ebay, I think I have heard a model number like MC60 talked about as the one to get.

I prefer Dodge myself, but then I like my Cummins engine.  :lmao:   I don't really know what the difference is in the window motors.  It maybe easier to adapt the output of the motor, or maybe he was just a Ford guy.

If it were me I would use a stepper motor drive.  Great speed control, and good torque through out the speed range that you might run a lead screw at. And very easy to adapt.


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## JimDawson

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Does this give you an A/C output, Like you would plug a regular fan into it?
> It does have a regular 110V outlet on it.
> Like you would plug into a wall.



Yes it does give you an AC output, unlike many light dimmers, which _may_ give a half-wave output, this type of controller gives a full wave output that is phase angle controlled, and it has some circuitry in it that makes it a bit more stable than a light dimmer.  It works by turning the power on for only part of the cycle, thus reducing the available power.  It would work OK on a constant load, like a fan.

Since it's rated at 15 amps, you could plug a toaster into it for instance and control the heat, or it would run most fans that you could plug into the wall.  It could also be used for a wood router speed control.


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## mrbreezeet1

JimDawson said:


> A treadmill motor might be a bit of overkill for the lead screw drive.  It would make a great spindle drive motor.  There are a lot of treadmill motor controllers on ebay, I think I have heard a model number like MC60 talked about as the one to get.
> 
> I prefer Dodge myself, but then I like my Cummins engine.  :lmao:   I don't really know what the difference is in the window motors.  It maybe easier to adapt the output of the motor, or maybe he was just a Ford guy.
> 
> If it were me I would use a stepper motor drive.  Great speed control, and good torque through out the speed range that you might run a lead screw at. And very easy to adapt.



so, would a stepper motor drive run a 12 volt window or wiper motor?

Yeah, maybe I'll get that tread mill motor, and if I can get a controller, run my spindle with it, I was thinking of that too. 
Will pretty much any tread mill controller run any tread mill motor?


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## mrbreezeet1

JimDawson said:


> Yes it does give you an AC output, unlike many light dimmers, which _may_ give a half-wave output, this type of controller gives a full wave output that is phase angle controlled, and it has some circuitry in it that makes it a bit more stable than a light dimmer.  It works by turning the power on for only part of the cycle, thus reducing the available power.  It would work OK on a constant load, like a fan.
> 
> Since it's rated at 15 amps, you could plug a toaster into it for instance and control the heat, or it would run most fans that you could plug into the wall.  It could also be used for a wood router speed control.



Well, thats good to know, I might actually tie it in to my router table then. 
The router is variable speed, but I could set this up where it would be easy to get to the control. 

What about something like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/16118544779...m=R40%7CR40&_sacat=0&_nkw=161185447790&_rdc=1
I would need a power supply though, Battery charger maybe?
I thought maybe I could wire a Pot in, in place of the throttle, and use a 
DPDT switch to change the rotation. 
The motor says reversible. 
The only thing is, sometimes you can get a treadmill for free, that would be best right now. (free)
My money is pretty tight this month. 

I don't know too much about electronics as you can tell. 
Electrical, a little, electronics, not so much. 
I was maybe going to put a 3 phase motor and a VFD for the spindle, but a free tread mill would be nice too. 
I did the 3 phase and VFD to my wood lathe.

EDIT, 
Battery charger would not work, as it says 24 volts.


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## JimDawson

mrbreezeet1 said:


> so, would a stepper motor drive run a 12 volt window or wiper motor?
> 
> Yeah, maybe I'll get that tread mill motor, and if I can get a controller, run my spindle with it, I was thinking of that too.
> Will pretty much any tread mill controller run any tread mill motor?




What I should have said there is a stepper motor AND drive.  No, that would not work.  Stepper motors are 2 phase motors that are driven by varying the current between the two windings.  All of the real magic happens in the stepper drive.  Now, having said that, you have to have something else to tell the stepper drive what to do.  The input to the drive are Step and Direction.

The direction input is not a problem, a simple ON/OFF toggle switch will do.

The step input is a different matter.  Each time the input is switched from OFF to ON, the motor will rotate one step, or 1.8 degrees.  This is 200 steps per revolution.  So you have to have something that will switch ON and OFF really fast, and do so accurately to be able to control the speed at a constant rate.  There are stepper drivers with an oscillator built in that will allow speed control from a pot.  There are also stepper speed controllers that connect to a stepper driver.  Here is an example  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reversible-...stepping-/171122644460?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

For a complete lead screw drive system, you would need a stepper motor, a stepper drive, a stepper speed controller, and a power supply.  Then also the mechanical hardware to connect the stepper motor to your lead screw.

Regarding the treadmill motor controller, you would need one rated for the motor horsepower.


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## mrbreezeet1

what about a controller like this?  To use a window motor with?
Looks like it could use 12 V input, it already has a pot, 
and I would need a DPDT switch. 
Sorry, like I said, I don't know too much about electronics. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-30A-DC-...359?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item54152db30f

Maybe if I could get one of these cheap enough, I could get an old window motor and try it, worst I could do is burn it up..........LOL

For a window motor, 2 or 3 amp battery charger should be enough; Right?

EDIT, 
_I just noticed they want $25.00 shipping for that controller above, it comes from China. _


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## mrbreezeet1

JimDawson said:


> What I should have said there is a stepper motor AND drive.  No, that would not work.  Stepper motors are 2 phase motors that are driven by varying the current between the two windings.  All of the real magic happens in the stepper drive.  Now, having said that, you have to have something else to tell the stepper drive what to do.  The input to the drive are Step and Direction.
> 
> The direction input is not a problem, a simple ON/OFF toggle switch will do.
> 
> The step input is a different matter.  Each time the input is switched from OFF to ON, the motor will rotate one step, or 1.8 degrees.  This is 200 steps per revolution.  So you have to have something that will switch ON and OFF really fast, and do so accurately to be able to control the speed at a constant rate.  There are stepper drivers with an oscillator built in that will allow speed control from a pot.  There are also stepper speed controllers that connect to a stepper driver.  Here is an example  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reversible-...stepping-/171122644460?_trksid=p2054897.l4275
> 
> For a complete lead screw drive system, you would need a stepper motor, a stepper drive, a stepper speed controller, and a power supply.  Then also the mechanical hardware to connect the stepper motor to your lead screw.
> 
> Regarding the treadmill motor controller, you would need one rated for the motor horsepower.



OK, so Regarding the treadmill motor controller, you would need one rated for the motor horsepower, I do understand that........LOL
The other part clear as Mud..........................
No, LOL
I sort of do understand, and I understand it would not work with the window motor. (stepper motor drive)

There are a few free tread mills up in pittsburgh, but I am trying to find one around here.


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## JimDawson

mrbreezeet1 said:


> what about a controller like this?  To use a window motor with?
> Looks like it could use 12 V input, it already has a pot,
> and I would need a DPDT switch.
> Sorry, like I said, I don't know too much about electronics.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-30A-DC-...359?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item54152db30f
> 
> Maybe if I could get one of these cheap enough, I could get an old window motor and try it, worst I could do is burn it up..........LOL
> 
> For a window motor, 2 or 3 amp battery charger should be enough; Right?




That controller would do it.  And yes, you would need a DPDT switch for FOR/REV.  I'm guessing it might take at least a 10 amp battery charger.  Power window motors are pretty powerful.  The better method would be to use a car battery with the battery charger connected to it, even a used car battery would be better than a straight charger connection.  Then you would get away with a 2 or 3 amp charger.  That way the battery would provide a more constant power source.


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## mrbreezeet1

JimDawson said:


> That controller would do it.  And yes, you would need a DPDT switch for FOR/REV.  I'm guessing it might take at least a 10 amp battery charger.  Power window motors are pretty powerful.  The better method would be to use a car battery with the battery charger connected to it, even a used car battery would be better than a straight charger connection.  Then you would get away with a 2 or 3 amp charger.  That way the battery would provide a more constant power source.



That would be sweet, If I could find one for reasonable shipping. 
Then that Pot that they have on it would give me my speed control OK, Right?
So for the reverse, do I just need a DPDT switch, I would not need any relays? 
And I do understand about the battery. 

Thanks for all your help.

EDIT
if I find a reasonable one, I'll check with you just to be sure it's OK.


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## JimDawson

mrbreezeet1 said:


> OK, so Regarding the treadmill motor controller, you would need one rated for the motor horsepower, I do understand that........LOL
> The other part clear as Mud..........................
> No, LOL
> I sort of do understand, and I understand it would not work with the window motor. (stepper motor drive)
> 
> There are a few free tread mills up in pittsburgh, but I am trying to find one around here.



I would not connect your variable speed router to that speed controller, the electronics in the router may not like it at all.

I think that the MC-60 treadmill controller will work with most treadmill motors.  There a are a few threads on subject in H-M.  There also should be a way to modify the controller on any treadmill that you get.


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## mrbreezeet1

Oh, OK then, I won't use it. 
I usually run it at hi speed only anyways. 

I guess this one would be OK, its the same deal, but its a few dollars shipping, but starts at $25.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-30A-DC-...780?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f1b571ec

But I'll check with you before I order one. 
Thanks,


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## JimDawson

Looks like the same one, should work.  I'll be happy to help out if I can.


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## mrbreezeet1

JimDawson said:


> Looks like the same one, should work.  I'll be happy to help out if I can.



OK, thanks, 
Might have to put this on a back burner for a few weeks, But I will let you know, 
With Christmas, I am actually a little short right now. 
I am sure I will have some questions. 
thanks For your help.


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## mrbreezeet1

These are only $10.00.
Would a cheap thing like this be any good?
Does sort of look cheap, 
Wish you could just get one here for $10.00 and try it. 
This china shipping takes forever though.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12v-24V-PWM...437?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d43cdc57d




Or this one here, looks like those other ones, but it's only $20.00. and free shipping
15 amp, must be why its cheaper. 15 amp should be enough; right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-15A-DC-...338?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d01916fc2


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## JimDawson

I'll give that one a maybe.  It's only 10 amp rated, normally with Chinese stuff I de-rate by about 50%.  Your window motor might draw more than 10 amps.

Normally I get stuff from China within 2 weeks, sometimes faster.  With Christmas coming up, it could take a little longer.


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## mrbreezeet1

JimDawson said:


> I'll give that one a maybe.  It's only 10 amp rated, normally with Chinese stuff I de-rate by about 50%.  Your window motor might draw more than 10 amps.
> 
> Normally I get stuff from China within 2 weeks, sometimes faster.  With Christmas coming up, it could take a little longer.



Are you talking about the top one for $10.00 or the bottom one for $20.00?
Or so I'd be better off with one of the ones that were I think 30 Amp?

Yeah, it was 30 amp, heck, its only about $7.00 more.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171558924780?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## mrbreezeet1

http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=581


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## JimDawson

mrbreezeet1 said:


> http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=581




That one looks like it would work, and it seems they are a US manufacturer, located in Connecticut.  At least you can call them if you have problem.


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## mrbreezeet1

JimDawson said:


> That one looks like it would work, and it seems they are a US manufacturer, located in Connecticut.  At least you can call them if you have problem.



Yeah, a fellow by the name of iron man uses them. 
Oh, I just saw you are a mod here. 
I have not been here to much lately. 
Well, I'll decide, I have to dig up a window motor too, I guess they use wiper motors too. 
I will let you know, and probably post a video or some pictures at least. 
Thanks again for your help.


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## BRIAN

Hi take a look at this it may help it's seen a lot of use now so I can recommend it.
 and you have me here to help if required.
    [h=3]Power lead screw for 7x12.[/h]


Brian.


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## mzayd3

This is what I used for my mill power feed.  I also picked up a windshield wiper motor to turn it with.  Power in, motor out.  really simple.  I put it in an enclosure with the pot sticking out.


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## mrbreezeet1

BRIAN said:


> Hi take a look at this it may help it's seen a lot of use now so I can recommend it.
> and you have me here to help if required.
> *Power lead screw for 7x12.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brian.



IDK, looks ,like posts are disappearing again. 
Nice job on that, it is rare to see a wiper motor with only 2 wires. 
What did you pay for your PWM unit?
Was it one of the ones from china?


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## mrbreezeet1

mzayd3 said:


> This is what I used for my mill power feed.  I also picked up a windshield wiper motor to turn it with.  Power in, motor out.  really simple.  I put it in an enclosure with the pot sticking out.



price is right on it too, what are you using for a power supply?


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## mrbreezeet1

To anyone, do you see any problem with this for a power supply? 
From what l can see, it looks like it would be OK?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERNIGHT-...ing_Parts_and_Accessories&hash=item4adebca1da
It says for LED strip light, but the specks look OK don't they?


_Input: AC 110V/220V ± 20%
_
_Output: 12V DC 30A_
_The output direct voltage adjustable range: ±10%_
_The output voltage tolerance: ±1%_
_Nominal power: 360W_
_Protections: overload / over voltage / short circuit_


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## mzayd3

I used this for a power supply.  It may not be the best, but for what I have invested, if it craps out, oh well, I guess I'll replace it with something else.  What you have in your last post might be a little better suited to the task.


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## mrbreezeet1

thats a nice one too it looks like.


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## mrbreezeet1

There is a cheaper one, and it is 20Amps, I think the Amps is enough, but I am not sure if this one has a cooling fan. 
I did e mail the seller.
Do you guys think I need a cooling fan on my power supply? 
I kind of like the idea of a cooling fan. 
This is the 20 amp one. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170884949622?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT



mrbreezeet1 said:


> To anyone, do you see any problem with this for a power supply?
> From what l can see, it looks like it would be OK?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERNIGHT-...ing_Parts_and_Accessories&hash=item4adebca1da
> It says for LED strip light, but the specks look OK don't they?
> 
> 
> _Input: AC 110V/220V ± 20%
> _
> _Output: 12V DC 30A_
> _The output direct voltage adjustable range: ±10%_
> _The output voltage tolerance: ±1%_
> _Nominal power: 360W_
> _Protections: overload / over voltage / short circuit_


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## caveBob

mrbreezeet1, FWIW... what I did:

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...our-Shop-Today?p=158264&viewfull=1#post158264

...got the idea here:

Myford powered lead screw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoFSz2LGgkM

...motor specs from notes when I got it:



> 24 VDC VARIABLE SPEED GEARMOTOR WITH CONTROL
> New, Dunkermotoren precision built brushless DC gearmotor with mounted speed control. Planetary gear reduction. Ball bearings. Full range PWM speed control requires 0-10 VDC signal. Instant reversing.
> Part numbers: Motor BG40x50,Gear Reducer PLG52, Speed Control BGE40.
> 
> SPECIFICATIONS Speed 130 RPM max
> Voltage 24 DC
> Amperage 2.1
> Torque 70 in - lbs.
> Gear Ratio 28:1
> Rotation Reversible
> Duty Continuous
> Mount Face mt 40mm bolt circle
> Shaft 12mm dia. x 25mm no keyway
> Size 6-1/2" x 2" x 2-1/2"
> Shpg. 4 lbs.



hth...


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## mrbreezeet1

Looks good, where did you get the pulleys and belt you used, and what kind of ratio is best?
How did you mount the pulley's, did you remove your leadscrew and drill in in a lathe chuck?
And what is your motor RPM at full speed, with out the PWM unit I would think. (just at 12 volts)
I might just use a wiper or window motor.



caveBob said:


> mrbreezeet1, FWIW... what I did:
> 
> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...our-Shop-Today?p=158264&viewfull=1#post158264
> 
> ...got the idea here:
> 
> Myford powered lead screw
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoFSz2LGgkM
> 
> ...motor specs from notes when I got it:
> 
> 
> 
> hth...


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## caveBob

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Looks good, where did you get the pulleys and belt you used, and what kind of ratio is best?
> How did you mount the pulley's, did you remove your leadscrew and drill in in a lathe chuck?
> And what is your motor RPM at full speed, with out the PWM unit I would think. (just at 12 volts)
> I might just use a wiper or window motor.



Thanks, got the pulleys and belts (picked up a spare when I was there) from a local Applied Industrial Technologies http://web.applied.com/ store. You could probably get them online from them as well.

Gear motor max rpm: 130 rpm

Large pulley size: 2.825"
Small pulley size: 1.15"

Using a steel ruler directly on the bed measuring 1" travel on the carriage, the timer on my cell phone, here's the speeds:

Slowest: 1 minute 50 seconds
Fastest: 7 seconds

If you look at the 3rd & 4th pic down on that page I linked... you can barely see how it's mounted. Chunk of round stock with it bored to the leadscrew diameter on one end and tapped 1/2-20 on the other/outside-most end to receive the bolt you see there.

A wiper motor would work just fine, pretty sure that's what he used in that youtube vid. A couple things I really like about the Dunkermotoren gear motors: instant reverse - very handy for milling up to a shoulder then hitting reverse instead of just stop... it reverses quicker, continuous duty, never gotten even warm no matter how much/how long I've run it. FWIW, just checked and saw this:

Dunkermotoren GR 53X58 24 volt dc motor with PLG52 gearhead - $49.00 with both "Buy it Now" and "Make Offer" buttons.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dunkermotoren-GR-53X58-24-volt-dc-motor-with-PLG52-gearhead-/321571188779

I couldn't tell from the pics there whether or not it had the built in controller like mine. Not sure how hard it would be to find a controller if it didn't... maybe someone else here would know. Good luck and post your progress...


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## mrbreezeet1

OK, Thanks Bob, 
Yes, I will post some pictures or a video. 
I don't have a mill, so my mounting will not be as fancy as yours. 
But l should be able to come up with something.
This is the cheapie controller l ordered, it has a pot and reverse switch already on it. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/351196836465?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## caveBob

> ...I don't have a mill...



I didn't either when I made it, just a lathe, spindle sander and random orbital sander... 

Funny... just ordered a couple of these last weekend for a project, supposed to arrive today from Amazon:



RioRand RRCCM2SPC Adjustable DC Motor Speed PWM Controller 10V 12V 24V 30V Reversing Switch 120W
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HTZD9YI

...looks awful darn close doesn't it?...


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## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> Funny... just ordered a couple of these last weekend for a project, supposed to arrive today from Amazon:
> I didn't either when I made it, just a lathe, spindle sander and random orbital sander...  RioRand RRCCM2SPC Adjustable DC Motor Speed PWM Controller 10V 12V 24V 30V Reversing Switch 120W
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HTZD9YI
> 
> ...looks awful darn close doesn't it?...





Those parts look nice, you can do a lot of things with out a mill. 
Like I made my t nut for my quick change tool post on the lathe, and a hacksaw. 
I often wished I had one though.
Yeah, I'll bet the shipping is quicker too, l added that to my wish list, in-case I want to get another one. 
I am still mad amazon upped there free shipping minimum to $35.00. 
I was complaining about the local U pull it telling me $20.00 for a wiper motor. (but that was the full service side, I think they are already pulled)
I called the  U pull it side back today, and she told me $6.00 for a wiper motor. 
_*That is more like it. *_
So, then I asked about window motors, she said $10.00!!
I was like "really, a window motor is more than a wiper motor"
She said "Yeah, there bigger" 
(I don't think they are)
But anyways $6.00 is pretty good for a wiper motor. 
I might get a window motor for my passenger side door, it works when it wants to. 
I am just guessing motor, but it could be the wiring harness, esp in the drivers door to the pillar. 
Sometimes you can clean up the brushes and where they ride to get them working again. 
My drivers side has been fine for about 3 years after that repair.


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## caveBob

A little update on the little PWM controller... hooked it up to a good 12v power supply (had to get one from a local HAM radio store), and by gosh it works! Well mostly... only forward but not in reverse. I plan on running 4 -.4A brushless computer case fans with it so reverse, I don't need, a regular DC motor probably wouldn't be a problem.


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## mrbreezeet1

well they charged me 15.00 for a used one at u pull it, and I had to go slopping through the damn mud to do it. 
I was trying to find a nice new looking one, but got too fed up with the mud. 
I was looking for a window motor for my car too, but said the hell with it, that damn mud was too hard to walk through, dragging that wagon they let you use. 
Anyways, if is off a jeep, I think a grand Cherokee, but I don't know if the motor is bad on one of the speeds, I did hook it up there and got it to work, but home here, I can only get it to work on one speed. 
I am trying to find a wiring picture, but you would think i could get it to work just trial and error. 
here is what the wires look like
Black I am guessing is ground, and the red with a yellow trace (and black) is the only one I can get it to run on.


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## mrbreezeet1

there are 2 wires coming out of the motor part, a red wire and a brown wire. 
The red wire matches up with the red with yellow trace, and the brown wire matches up with the 
brown with a white trace, (out of the plug) and there is a black wire in that same side of the wiring plug. 
The red wire (red with yellow trace) and black, the motor ran. 
I am getting 1.4 Ohms reading. The black wire and the Brown wire (or brown with white trace) I am getting 1.9 ohms reading. 
Seems to me the motor should run on both the red and brown. 
But I don't get anything hooking up the black and brown to a battery.


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## mrbreezeet1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ww5-pmiokc

But both speeds are working now. 
Red (and black) seems to be hi
Brown (and black) seems to be low. 

But in the video, he is saying brown is hi. 
may be a different set up.

I don't know if opening up the motor and fiddle farting around with the brushes did something or not, 
It must have, because I could only get one speed at the junk yard, and I could only get one speed today under my hood today with the car battery. 
But after fiddle farting around with the brushes, and taking it back downstairs, and hooking up to a battery charger, 
it worked on both speeds. 



So I don't know on all motors (Wiper) , but if you get a jeep one, l think this jeep was about a 2000 Cherokee, 
 It will be just like in the video. 
Black is your common, and red and brown are your two speeds. 
The other 2 are for the parking system. Don't need to worry about them. 

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ww5-pmiokc [/URL]


----------



## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> A little update on the little PWM controller... hooked it up to a good 12v power supply (had to get one from a local HAM radio store), and by gosh it works! Well mostly... only forward but not in reverse. I plan on running 4 -.4A brushless computer case fans with it so reverse, I don't need, a regular DC motor probably wouldn't be a problem.



wonder why the reverse isn't working?

if you reverse the wires to the fan, does it reverse?


----------



## caveBob

Sounds like you're getting it going, great! So, you'll just connect the PWM to the High then?

Think you mentioned not liking ordering from Amazon earlier because of shipping... I did too before my son told me about Prime. We kind of balked at it at first... but really amazed how many and varied purchases we've made through Prime now. 2 day shipping, lotsa times things were delivered next day. I remember seeing a door motor recently when I wasn't looking for one and think I remember it was like $15.


----------



## caveBob

mrbreezeet1 said:


> wonder why the reverse isn't working?
> 
> if you reverse the wires to the fan, does it reverse?



Ya, me too... nope, it only runs forward... direct power or through PWM.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> Sounds like you're getting it going, great! So, you'll just connect the PWM to the High then?



Yeah, when it gets here. I hope the reverse works on this one.  I still have to order the power supply and extend the leadscrew somehow too. 
I was thinking of removing the leadscrew and center drilling it in the lathe, and then drilling and taping for 1/4 20. Then taking a piece of 1/2" stock about 1 1/2" long, and center drilling and drilling through
it for a 1/4" cap head screw. wish I had a 1/4" ream to do the final sizing. 
I have to look in this one box I have, with any luck, I might have one. 
I did nick the leadscrew with a file, and it seems like it should drill OK. 
Too bad Logan had not made the leadscrew a few inches longer, but I guess there was no real reason to. 
I would think I will use the high end, it is nice to have both speeds, to try the other speed if needed. 




caveBob said:


> Think you mentioned not liking ordering from Amazon earlier because of shipping... I did too before my son told me about Prime. We kind of balked at it at first... but really amazed how many and varied purchases we've made through Prime now. 2 day shipping, lotsa times things were delivered next day. I remember seeing a door motor recently when I wasn't looking for one and think I remember it was like $15.



Yeah, but I thought amazon prime was something like $150.00 a year?
If not, then maybe I would consider it. 
Whats nice is that motor on my car can be changed without removing the regulator. 
Really the $35.00 minimum is not too bad, but a lot of times it was easier to meet the $25.00 minimum than $35.00.
and l hate to add something I don't really need, just to get free shipping. 
On that note, shipping has somewhat gotten out of hand everywhere.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

Amazon even has this motor, if you only wanted 1 speed. 
50 RMP this one is. 
http://www.amazon.com/Wondermotor-R...cp_6_NZCS?ie=UTF8&refRID=0Q888SY2MTBJSDRN2MXB

Looks like a wiper motor. 
Only 2 wires. 

here is a 35 or 50 RPM one
http://www.amazon.com/Reversible-El...0&sr=1-45&keywords=12V+DC+Electric+Gear+Motor


----------



## caveBob

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Yeah, when it gets here. I hope the reverse works on this one.  I still have to order the power supply and extend the leadscrew somehow too.
> I was thinking of removing the leadscrew and center drilling it in the lathe, and then drilling and taping for 1/4 20. Then taking a piece of 1/2" stock about 1 1/2" long, and center drilling and drilling through
> it for a 1/4" cap head screw. wish I had a 1/4" ream to do the final sizing.
> I have to look in this one box I have, with any luck, I might have one.
> I did nick the leadscrew with a file, and it seems like it should drill OK.
> Too bad Logan had not made the leadscrew a few inches longer, but I guess there was no real reason to.
> I would think I will use the high end, it is nice to have both speeds, to try the other speed if needed.



Sounds like a good reasonable plan to me




mrbreezeet1 said:


> Yeah, but I thought amazon prime was something like $150.00 a year?
> If not, then maybe I would consider it.
> Whats nice is that motor on my car can be changed without removing the regulator.
> Really the $35.00 minimum is not too bad, but a lot of times it was easier to meet the $25.00 minimum than $35.00.
> and l hate to add something I don't really need, just to get free shipping.
> On that note, shipping has somewhat gotten out of hand everywhere.



Just checked:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DBYBNEE/ref=nav_joinprmlogo/184-8450786-9120247

30-day free trial. After your free trial, Amazon Prime is just $99/year. 
Cancel anytime.



mrbreezeet1 said:


> Amazon even has this motor, if you only wanted 1 speed.
> 50 RMP this one is.
> http://www.amazon.com/Wondermotor-R...cp_6_NZCS?ie=UTF8&refRID=0Q888SY2MTBJSDRN2MXB



That's probably the one I would get with pulleys probably closer to 1:1 than like on mine which spins to 130 rpm. Sounds like the purchasers had good experience with the seller too, always a good sign...


----------



## mrbreezeet1

Yeah, my doctor said she has Amazon prime, but they buy a lot on line,
and from amazon. 
I think I am just going to use regular v belt and pulleys, thats what pete222 did on his Atlas. 
I got the piece made tonight for the motor, piece of 1/2" stock, drilled to 17/64, tapped out to 8mmX 1.25
and then counter bored, to clear the un-threaded "hub" part of the wiper motor spindle. 
you can see what I mean in the pictures. 
I snuck up on the final size of the counter bore so it would be a close fit to the un-threaded part of the motor spindle, to help strengthen it. 
The one picture shows the piece only threaded on a few threads, then the other picture shows it threaded on all the way.

Disregard the belt adjustment question in the last picture.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

I'm still waiting for the PWM unit, and have to R&R the read screw, and drill & tap for my extension. 
Found a tread mill motor for free, well trading a rasp for it, but didn't pick it up yet, and found a controller on e bay for $35.00. 
Guess I'll have to buy a pot and a DPDT switch. 
This is for the spindle now.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

mrbreezeet1 said:


> I'm still waiting for the PWM unit, and have to R&R the read screw, and drill & tap for my extension.
> Found a tread mill motor for free, well trading a rasp for it, but didn't pick it up yet, and found a controller on e bay for $35.00.
> Guess I'll have to buy a pot and a DPDT switch.
> This is for the spindle now.



Got the lead screw done tonight, and a rack for my files I have been threatening to do. 
Pulled the lead screw, dialed it in, to about a thou, or so, and faced it off and center drilled, 
tapped for 1/4 20.
here is a vid showing it, no big thing really, shows the disaster area one side, and shows the woodshop side briefly. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vQ9nUAHIhA&feature=youtu.be


----------



## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> Ya, me too... nope, it only runs forward... direct power or through PWM.



maybe there is something wrong with the board.


----------



## Dave Smith

mrbreezeet1---sorry I didn't see your thread sooner----I see you are having problems with your power and control---If you search out the thread that Nels started----SHOW US YOUR LOGAN LATHES!---and on the second page #50 on Dave Smith reply--you will see my neat simple powering of the lead screw----the little transmission has quick forward--neutral-- reverse lever----- and lever for speed from very slow to fast for quick return of carriage---you can change direction at fast speed without a problem----it is an old transmission out of unknown unit to me---I can look to see if I can find any identfication numbers on it-----------another  simpler unit you can use besides an electric motor---is an air motor----you would have plenty of power---quick direction change and variable speed with simple ball valve on the exhaust side of motor---if you run your exhaust air out a length of garden type hose to outside of your shop there would not be noise problem----I probably have at least 50 air motors in many sizes to choose from for my projects----but you can pick them up on internet for under $50 dollars that would work for your power---as long as you have an adequate air compressor this method may be answer to your electric motor control problems-----maybe another one of all our members can recognize the nice little transmission on my lathe and remember what they were used on------Dave


----------



## mrbreezeet1

OK, thanks Dave, 
I will give it a read.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

mrbreezeet1 said:


> I want to power the lead screw on my Logan lathe, as I have no QCGB, and of course, will go back to the gears if I want to do any threading.
> I have this controller, but don't know a lot about it, I need to know if anyone knows what motor I need to use this controller.
> I am pretty sure this is a PWM controller, as talked about in this thread.
> anyone know anything about this controller.
> Google search did not come up with too much, although I am still looking.
> here is the pictures of the controller.
> it is 120 Volt input.



Jim, I don't suppose I could use this on my 110 V Drill press motor?
The one you said was for a fan?


----------



## JimDawson

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Jim, I don't suppose I could use this on my 110 V Drill press motor?
> The one you said was for a fan?



I don't think it would work well as a speed controller on a drill press or any other variable torque device.  Also, if you did use it on the drill press, you would have to start it at full power, and then turn it down a bit.  You would have to make sure that the motor is always turning fast enough that centrifugal switch stays open so it doesn't drop into the start windings and burn up the motor.

My recommendation is don't try to use it for a drill press.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

OK Thanks Jim, I didn't think so. 
That Craftsman 150 is a pain to change the belt on. 
I guess you just saw, I got some help on hooking up a spdt switch, to use the 2 speeds on the motor I have , I think it is around 1100, and 1800. 
I think before my Logan lathe gets a tread mill motor for the spindle, the Craftsman 150 DP will get it first.


----------



## JimDawson

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


----------



## mrbreezeet1

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


----------



## mrbreezeet1

*Re: Wanting to power a lead screw/ Treadmill motor for DP*



mrbreezeet1 said:


> Yeah, maybe tomorrow, I will take a ride and pick up the motor.
> Then I need to get a controller. Guess I will have to buy a pot, but won't need the dpdt switch this time for the DP, as I won't need reverse.



I'm meeting him Christmas to get the treadmill motor.
 Now, these m-60 controllers, 
will that have the power supply in it, and then what all else will I need?
I am guessing a Pot, and maybe a On off switch, and maybe a dpdt switch if I want reverse. 
There are some m-60 controllers on e bay for about $35.00.
There is this controller, 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-KB-Electronics-DC-Motor-Control-KBMD-240D-9370-/291194107259

but looks like if all I need is the m-60 controller, and a Pot, and a few switches, the m-60 will be the cheaper way to go. 

How do I have to wire this controller to get around this defaulting back to the slowest speed every time l shut it down and restart?
read something about removing the center tap on the pot, and putting a switch, but there was not too much detail. 

Got my PWM unit today for the leadscrew project, so I will have to get busy on that.
_*
EDIT*_

Was reading comments and watching a video on you tube, fellow says you break the center wire of your pot, the Wiper wire, and put a spst switch in that wire. 
And that should allow you to turn the motor off, and back on, and resume at the speed you had when you shut it off. 

Still have to get the TM motor, as stated I am supposed to meet him Christmas. 
The m-60 board will probably be OK for this motor, but I want to see the specs and check with you Jim, before I order the board. I read to use a 5 to 10K pot, does that sound about right?

Don't think l am going to worry about reverse for the drill press, they say it is nice for tapping, but right now, I don't do a lot of taping, and what I do do, I can hand tap.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

Think I said I got my PWM unit finally yesterday. 
Hooked up everything on the bench, and it is all working. 
This little unit if you recall, has the speed pot and the forward/off/reverse switch all included in. 
The power supply, has a 110 220 volt option, and I had it on 220 by mistake at first, but it was funny, it worked the same with the selector set to 110 or 220. 
there is a little trim pot, to increase the voltage, I forget what % they claimed, but I went from out of the box at 12.23 volts to 13.90 volts after cranking up the trim screw, 
So, got to rig up my mounting brackets, and get some pulleys, and a box, and get everything all wired and hooked up.

here is You tube video running it on bench. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2uPZePlCYk&feature=youtu.be


----------



## JimDawson

It looks like the MC-60 controller will run most treadmill motors, and seem to be the most popular.  I was not able to find the actual specs on the MC-60 so I'm not sure what the max HP is.  But it seems that there were people using them up to about 3HP.  Based on the reading I have done, it looks like a 5K pot is the correct choice.  Make sure you get one with a linear taper as opposed to an audio pot (logarithmic taper)

I'm sure there are members here that have more information than I was able to find.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

JimDawson said:


> It looks like the MC-60 controller will run most treadmill motors, and seem to be the most popular.  I was not able to find the actual specs on the MC-60 so I'm not sure what the max HP is.  But it seems that there were people using them up to about 3HP.  Based on the reading I have done, it looks like a 5K pot is the correct choice.  Make sure you get one with a linear taper as opposed to an audio pot (logarithmic taper)
> 
> I'm sure there are members here that have more information than I was able to find.



Yeah, I think I have that number for a pot like that somewhere, from when I did the VFD on my wood lathe. 
Does anyone know if the power supply is built in to these MC-60 controllers?


----------



## JimDawson

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Yeah, I think I have that number for a pot like that somewhere, from when I did the VFD on my wood lathe.
> Does anyone know if the power supply is built in to these MC-60 controllers?


  I does not seem to be built in.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Treadmill-S...136?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ceebab0d8


----------



## mrbreezeet1

JimDawson said:


> I does not seem to be built in.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Treadmill-S...136?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ceebab0d8



This should be the pot.
http://www.radioshack.com/10k-ohm-linear-taper-potentiometer/2711715.html#.VJtx-QGYKA

So now what?
What do I need to do for a power supply?

OH, so that one has everything with it?
For $65.00 plus $17.00 shipping, the for that one, 
The 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-KB-Electronics-DC-Motor-Control-KBMD-240D-9370-/291194107259
for $120.00 is looking better, but if that is the case, now I could almost go with a 110V VFD. 
I would like to put this thing together cheap.


----------



## furpo

There a lot of windshield wiper motors off 70's vintage Ford pickups used for winches on 4x4 ATV's to lift snow plows around here.
I used one to remote steer my houseboat. I used it for about 2000 miles on the Mississippi River and it is still going strong on the third owner!
We've always pulled them out of junked pickups and I've never seen one die!
Don't know about other makes!  "But this is FORD country"


----------



## JimDawson

In reading through the specs on the KB unit, it seems you need to buy a few more parts from them to make a complete unit, For/Rev switch for $55, and a horsepower resistor, and then there is the heat sink for $35.  So the base price a a bit misleading.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

JimDawson said:


> In reading through the specs on the KB unit, it seems you need to buy a few more parts from them to make a complete unit, For/Rev switch for $55, and a horsepower resistor, and then there is the heat sink for $35.  So the base price a a bit misleading.



Forget what the spec is for the HP, the heat sink I understand is optional. 
I know the resistor is only a few bucks. 
I thought you could just reverse the motor leads for reverse, so this type of switch would work?

But for that matter, I am not spending $120.00 for that controller either.


----------



## JimDawson

Yes, that type (DPDT) of switch would work for For/Rev.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

On that little PWM board and power supply, l was wondering why when I put a volt meter at the output of the board, where the motor hooks up to, I get anywhere from almost 14 voldt at full motor speed, to 0 volts at No motor speed. 
I thought the theory behind the PWM board was the voltage stayed the same, and the on off time is what was varied. 
Looks like this unit is just cutting the voltage down. 
It is varying the motor speed, and the torque seems to remain,  but l was just wondering why I see voltage from almost 14 down to 0 volts.


----------



## JimDawson

What you are reading is what could be termed ''effective voltage''  The actual peak should remain around 14 volts, but the reduced pulse width has the effect of reducing the voltage to the motor.  Without an oscilloscope, you really can't tell what the actual output looks like.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

So it's staying at around 14, but the meter cant show it. 
So the little board is probably working the way it should.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

mrbreezeet1 said:


> So it's staying at around 14, but the meter cant show it.
> So the little board is probably working the way it should.



Thinking about one of these for the lathe now. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-...9?pt=BI_Textile_Equipment&hash=item19f848eaf5
Said to be 3/4 hp. (550 watts)

what do you think?


----------



## JimDawson

I don't know how they can sell that motor so cheap.  The only problem I see is that it is a 3450 RPM motor so some reduction would be in order.  Most lathe motors are 1725 RPM.  A 2:1 speed reduction would just be a simple jackshaft, so it's not really a problem.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

JimDawson said:


> I don't know how they can sell that motor so cheap.  The only problem I see is that it is a 3450 RPM motor so some reduction would be in order.  Most lathe motors are 1725 RPM.  A 2:1 speed reduction would just be a simple jackshaft, so it's not really a problem.



i am not 100% sure, but I think the speed knob shown is a Max motor speed setting, and there is another prevision for variable speed. 
I would have to make sure. 
I got the TM motor today. 
Here is the plate.
Should work with a MC-60 board?
The seller said, I would not need a power supply, but some people put a choke unit on, he has them I don't know for sure yet though. 

Anyone know if that flywheel is pressed on, or threaded on?
It won't up load here.Forget for now before I throw this computer through a wall.
I will try later.


----------



## JimDawson

mrbreezeet1 said:


> i am not 100% sure, but I think the speed knob shown is a Max motor speed setting, and there is another prevision for variable speed.
> I would have to make sure.
> I got the TM motor today.
> Here is the plate.
> Should work with a MC-60 board?
> The seller said, I would not need a power supply, but some people put a choke unit on, he has them I don't know for sure yet though.
> 
> Anyone know if that flywheel is pressed on, or threaded on?
> It won't up load here.Forget for now before I throw this computer through a wall.
> I will try later.



The problem with the sewing machine motor speed is the HP rating.  It develops 3/4 HP at 3450, but that means 3/8 HP at 1725 because it only has half the torque of a 3/4 HP, 1725 Motor.  Because it is a brushed DC motor with a PWM controller it may have much better torque through the speed range than a standard squirrel cage AC motor.

With regard to the MC-60 controller and the motor you picked up today, I would go with what the seller said given that he is a tech on those products.  This is also what Inflight posted in the other thread.  Based on what I have read, it looks like the MC-60 will run up to about 3HP, but I am sure that there are others that can give you a more definitive answer because I have no first hand experience with them.

I guess I need to get up to speed on the MC-60 because they seem to be popular here.  The good news is that I have a 3HP treadmill motor sitting right next to me, so I'll order a MC-60 and see if I can break it.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

JimDawson said:


> The problem with the sewing machine motor speed is the HP rating.  It develops 3/4 HP at 3450, but that means 3/8 HP at 1725 because it only has half the torque of a 3/4 HP, 1725 Motor.  Because it is a brushed DC motor with a PWM controller it may have much better torque through the speed range than a standard squirrel cage AC motor.
> 
> With regard to the MC-60 controller and the motor you picked up today, I would go with what the seller said given that he is a tech on those products.  This is also what Inflight posted in the other thread.  Based on what I have read, it looks like the MC-60 will run up to about 3HP, but I am sure that there are others that can give you a more definitive answer because I have no first hand experience with them.
> 
> I guess I need to get up to speed on the MC-60 because they seem to be popular here.  The good news is that I have a 3HP treadmill motor sitting right next to me, so I'll order a MC-60 and see if I can break it.



here is the one in flight just posted if I can get it to upload. 
l can't get nothing to upload, it is at the bottom of this thread. 
Oh, I guess you saw it.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/6462-Slowing-down-the-Drill-Press?p=259069#post259069


----------



## rbertalotto

I just ordered the following parts from Amazon to power my lead screw on my JET 12-36BD

RioRand Upgraded RRCCM6NSPC 150W 6V 12V 24V Reversing Switch Adjustable DC Motor Speed Controller PWM

12v 6a Adapter Power Supply for LCD Monitor with Power Cord

Reversible Electric Gear Motor 12v 50 RPM or 35RPM Gearmotor DC 12VDC

Total order cam to less than $80 including shipping.

Should be fun!


----------



## caveBob

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Forget what the spec is for the HP, the heat sink I understand is optional.
> I know the resistor is only a few bucks.
> I thought you could just reverse the motor leads for reverse, so this type of switch would work?
> 
> But for that matter, I am not spending $120.00 for that controller either.



FWIW... I did, and would do it again. At first, I started with a decent/inexpensive treadmill motor:




then, at some point the controller went belly up and decided on the KBMD-240D controller thinking it would also work on a better TEFC DC motor if one came along.




 After seeing this article:

9x20 Lathe Variable Speed DC Spindle Motor
http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/Variable_Speed_DC_Spindle_Motor.htm

It told me which motor to begin searching for. Took awhile searching every day but ended up with a brand new/unused one on Ebay for $175 including shipping. Seller had a "Make offer" button there, so I did... got it for $130 + free shipping!




...old pic but really like the torque at all rpms never once even appearing to get warm to the touch. But like I said, it took awhile to find it at a price I would pay.

2¢

[EDIT] forgot to mention... cool video on your good progress with the windshield motor. You're gonna love that mod... 

[EDIT #2]...Argh, can't remember where atm but with the treadmill motor there is another mod you can do with it for cooling. I never did it but it involved cutting the end off of a 2 liter pop bottle, about 1/2 way, then using a heat gun to form/melt the bottle around a computer case fan. That did two things... sealed the exposed end closest to incoming chips from toasting the motor and cooled the motor when running it a low rpms. Maybe you can find it...


----------



## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> FWIW... I did, and would do it again. At first, I started with a decent/inexpensive treadmill motor:
> 
> 
> 
> then, at some point the controller went belly up and decided on the KBMD-240D controller thinking it would also work on a better TEFC DC motor if one came along.
> 
> 
> 
> After seeing this article:
> 
> 9x20 Lathe Variable Speed DC Spindle Motor
> http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/Variable_Speed_DC_Spindle_Motor.htm
> 
> It told me which motor to begin searching for. Took awhile searching every day but ended up with a brand new/unused one on Ebay for $175 including shipping. Seller had a "Make offer" button there, so I did... got it for $130 + free shipping!
> 
> 
> 
> ...old pic but really like the torque at all rpms never once even appearing to get warm to the touch. But like I said, it took awhile to find it at a price I would pay.
> 
> 2¢
> 
> [EDIT] forgot to mention... cool video on your good progress with the windshield motor. You're gonna love that mod...



Thanks, Yeah, I got to get busy on that now. 
I did see that Baldor DC motor before, it is nice. 


rbertalotto said:


> I just ordered the following parts from Amazon to power my lead screw on my JET 12-36BD
> 
> RioRand Upgraded RRCCM6NSPC 150W 6V 12V 24V Reversing Switch Adjustable DC Motor Speed Controller PWM
> 
> 12v 6a Adapter Power Supply for LCD Monitor with Power Cord
> 
> Reversible Electric Gear Motor 12v 50 RPM or 35RPM Gearmotor DC 12VDC
> 
> Total order cam to less than $80 including shipping.
> 
> Should be fun!


That should all work, let us know how it works out. 
Keep us posted. 
here are the specs on the treadmill motor, 
but it looks like one of the leads is missing, actually the brush and all. 
If they will upload now. 
So I may have to come up with something for the lead and brush.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

No, I am missing the brush, and this plastic part, 
Its like $5.00 for the plastic part, and $15.00 for the brush(1) 
It's not worth it.

there are all sorts of brush sets on e bay, FOR $50.00!


----------



## Micke S

mrbreezeet1 said:


> http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=581



That one looks like the same controller I use to power feed the table on a drill press. I'm using a window wiper motor and a power supply that gives 6 amps.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

Micke S said:


> That one looks like the same controller I use to power feed the table on a drill press. I'm using a window wiper motor and a power supply that gives 6 amps.
> 
> View attachment 90612



Yeah, I just got a little $8.00 cheapie one from e bay, 
I think I saw that on your mill when I was starting this project.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

mrbreezeet1 said:


> No, I am missing the brush, and this plastic part,
> Its like $5.00 for the plastic part, and $15.00 for the brush(1)
> It's not worth it.
> 
> there are all sorts of brush sets on e bay, FOR $50.00!



I wrote the guy on e bay that has the MC-60 board, he said he may be able to dig up a clip, 
but he has held the brush in with tape. 
He did not understand I was missing the brush too. 
I wrote and told him I was missing the brush too, but have not heard back yet. 
I have to wait and see if I can get the brush before I worry about the fly wheel, I was thinking about bumping it with my air hammer. 
I then read someone had done the same thing.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

mrbreezeet1 said:


> I wrote the guy on e bay that has the MC-60 board, he said he may be able to dig up a clip,
> but he has held the brush in with tape.
> He did not understand I was missing the brush too.
> I wrote and told him I was missing the brush too, but have not heard back yet.
> I have to wait and see if I can get the brush before I worry about the fly wheel, I was thinking about bumping it with my air hammer.
> I then read someone had done the same thing.



There is a threaded stud at the brush end of the motor, l put that in a vise, and the fly wheel threaded right off. 

I don't think in a drill press application, l need to worry about the fan this time?
lathe maybe a different story. 
The back of the fly wheel serves as a fan also. 

l took the - brush out, it measures about .255, so 1/4"  x .436, so, 7/16" x about .628 so, about 5/8 long. (or even 3/4" long. ) 

Maybe if the fellow with the MC-60 board don't have a brush, I can find something and make it work. 
I still need that plastic clip too, or a way to rig something substantial. 

Bet this is them, but as I stated, I cant afford $25.00 for 2 brushes,  and $5.00 for the holder/clip, 
Plus I am sure about $10.00 shipping, the way they charge today. 
I am not wanting to "poor mouth" but_ I Am_ on a fixed income right now. 
So maybe I can find a brush cheap on e bay and make it work. 

http://store.eurtonelectric.com/treadmillbrushestb-992-1.aspx


----------



## caveBob

You gave measurements of the old brushes but, I wonder how much room/play you have to work with. Amazon has them much cheaper + they're 10 to a pack:

5/8" x 1/2" x 1/4" 5 Pair Generic Electric Motor Brush - $7.07 & FREE Shipping
http://www.amazon.com/Pair-Generic-Electric-Motor-Brush/dp/B0050MQREG

You'll see other sizes on that page, below this one... I would measure the "hole" they go into and see if you could get one of these "cheaper" ones to fit.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> You gave measurements of the old brushes but, I wonder how much room/play you have to work with. Amazon has them much cheaper + they're 10 to a pack:
> 
> 5/8" x 1/2" x 1/4" 5 Pair Generic Electric Motor Brush - $7.07 & FREE Shipping
> http://www.amazon.com/Pair-Generic-Electric-Motor-Brush/dp/B0050MQREG
> 
> You'll see other sizes on that page, below this one... I would measure the "hole" they go into and see if you could get one of these "cheaper" ones to fit.



Yeah, I was looking at a few on e bay too, 
I think if there is not room for larger size, I could always sand down the new brush a little to fit. 

probably only have to take 1/32" off each side of the 1/2" dimension. 

I am hoping the fellow on e bay that has the MC 60 board can find me a brush and the plastic clip too. 
He said to remind him on Monday. 

the Pot for that board, should I use a 5 K ?
I thought 10K but I am seeing reference to 5 K more it seems.

_Total Length(Approx): 1 1/2"(When Spring Stretching)_

I guess that means length of the brush and the spring combined. 
Looks like mine is closer to 2" if that is the case. 
The ones I saw on e bay, you would have to get your own spring. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/380919975885?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


You did say 5 K


JimDawson said:


> It looks like the MC-60 controller will run most  treadmill motors, and seem to be the most popular.  I was not able to  find the actual specs on the MC-60 so I'm not sure what the max HP is.   But it seems that there were people using them up to about 3HP. _* Based on the reading I have done, it looks like a 5K pot is the correct choice.*_  Make sure you get one with a linear taper as opposed to an audio pot (logarithmic taper)


----------



## caveBob

mrbreezeet1 said:


> the Pot for that board, should I use a 5 K ?
> I thought 10K but I am seeing reference to 5 K more it seems.



My belt grinder still has the original MC-2100 control board that came with that motor off of a "dead" treadmill. Pretty sure it is/was 5k from Radio Shack, I'll check to be sure in a bit or by morning k.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> My belt grinder still has the original MC-2100 control board that came with that motor off of a "dead" treadmill. Pretty sure it is/was 5k from Radio Shack, I'll check to be sure in a bit or by morning k.



OK, Thanks Bob,


----------



## caveBob

Yeup, 5k...


----------



## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> Yeup, 5k...



thanks Bob, I got a Radio shack number if anyone ever needs it, 
5 K linear, # is 271-1714

http://www.radioshack.com/5k-ohm-linear-taper-potentiometers/2711714.html

now l just need the motor brush. 
I have a small box of brush's somewhere, don't know how big, but I could not find them for nothing. 
Got some things sorted though, and as much as I hated to, threw a few things out. 
Hopefully the fellow on e bay will come through for me. 
I told him I would not be able to buy the controller if I can't get the motor working. 
So maybe he will be able to help me out. 
Guy never did write me back I got the motor off. 
I mean it was free and all, well Actually I traded a rasp for it. 
I just thought he might have it laying around, 
he said he is a hoarder, I told him I was too.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

3/13 I paid 180 .00 plus shipping, VFD and motor, 

Now it is like $255.00  No, 262.00!!
Teco Westinghouse Model #: JNEV-101-H1 with 3/4 hp motor. 
Really jumped up. in price. 
http://dealerselectric.com/item.asp?cID=2&scID=132&PID=24083


----------



## mrbreezeet1

Put an Ad on Craigslist for a free treadmill last night, got a call today. 
Was able to take it down enough to get in the car, 
I will do some searching, but anyone know how to wire this board?
It is a model KK6039T. 
Looks like this one on e bay. 
I should have been a little more mindful when I took it apart, but the lady was in a hurry. 

It even had a pot with it, and a On off switch I can re purpose. 
There is a group of 3, S1 S2 S3, I am betting is for the pot. 
Then there is L1 and L2 together?   Line one and line 2? 
Then there is a A1 and a A 2 and they are spread apart. 
The motor looks nice, almost looks like a 56 frame motor, and the fan (2 actually) is mounted on the shaft. I am thinking the fans can stay on there. 
or will they just pull dust and sawdust into my motor?
The shaft is double, and is a nice shaft,  5/8" with key way. 
I did not measure the mounting holes yet, but I bet it will line up. If not, it will be a easy matter to adapt. 
board looks like this. 
I see there are trim pots on the board. 
One says "Torque" 
crank that one all the way up;right?..................LOL

Let me know if that picture is too big, I will edit it. 
I will have to take a picture of the motor later. 
I can't find one like it on line. 
like I said, its cool looking, looks like a baby 56 frame.


----------



## caveBob

Funny, just this last September I ordered this one for the mill (still apart in a million pieces awaiting paint, reassembly... argh!!!):

1 HP, 1800 RPM, Brook Motor with 1 HP, 115 Volts, Teco VFD 
Item#:	 1 HP 1800 RPM 115 Volts Input Package 
http://dealerselectric.com/item.asp?cID=2&scID=50&PID=24070

Sub Total: $199.99
Shipping & Handling: $80.79
---------------------------
TOTAL: $280.78

...and this thread in addition to my already acquired sense of buyer's remorse about it (fear of low - low end torque as opposed to the DC motor setup on the lathe). Really has/had me wishing I went 1hp DC, Baldor or the like instead...

I've had zero problems with the 3/4hp version on the lathe for tapping or turning large diameter at low rpms... I may well sell the VFD through Craigslist and eat the additional shipping I paid for the original purchase. I dunno yet...


----------



## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> Funny, just this last September I ordered this one for the mill (still apart in a million pieces awaiting paint, reassembly... argh!!!):
> 
> 1 HP, 1800 RPM, Brook Motor with 1 HP, 115 Volts, Teco VFD
> Item#:     1 HP 1800 RPM 115 Volts Input Package
> http://dealerselectric.com/item.asp?cID=2&scID=50&PID=24070
> 
> Sub Total: $199.99
> Shipping & Handling: $80.79
> ---------------------------
> TOTAL: $280.78
> 
> ...and this thread in addition to my already acquired sense of buyer's remorse about it (fear of low - low end torque as opposed to the DC motor setup on the lathe). Really has/had me wishing I went 1hp DC, Baldor or the like instead...
> 
> I've had zero problems with the 3/4hp version on the lathe for tapping or turning large diameter at low rpms... I may well sell the VFD through Craigslist and eat the additional shipping I paid for the original purchase. I dunno yet...



well there shipping must have went out of sight too. 
Cause IIRC, My shipping was about $30.00. 
Cause I even thought it was a little high. 
Funny thing, I think the 1 HP is still, $199.00
but the 3/4 HP is what I say? 256.00 or so. Crazy. 
I just found a the teco VFD for $139.00, and the shipping was only $6.30 something USPS. 
I should tell Pete 222 he said they charged him something like $20.00 to ship his VFD. 
I don't notice low speed loss of torque , but mine is just on a wood lathe, and I use the reeves drive as well as The VFD Pot.
but i think they say it is vectorless drive, or some such, and that is the plus side of that feature, is no loss of torque at low speeds.

Sensorless vector l think it's called. 
anyways, supposed to retain the torque at low(er) speeds.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Put an Ad on Craigslist for a free treadmill last night, got a call today.
> Was able to take it down enough to get in the car,
> I will do some searching, but anyone know how to wire this board?
> It is a model KK6039T.
> Looks like this one on e bay.
> I should have been a little more mindful when I took it apart, but the lady was in a hurry.
> 
> It even had a pot with it, and a On off switch I can re purpose.
> There is a group of 3, S1 S2 S3, I am betting is for the pot.
> Then there is L1 and L2 together?   Line one and line 2?
> Then there is a A1 and a A 2 and they are spread apart.
> The motor looks nice, almost looks like a 56 frame motor, and the fan (2 actually) is mounted on the shaft. I am thinking the fans can stay on there.
> or will they just pull dust and sawdust into my motor?
> The shaft is double, and is a nice shaft,  5/8" with key way.
> I did not measure the mounting holes yet, but I bet it will line up. If not, it will be a easy matter to adapt.
> board looks like this.
> I see there are trim pots on the board.
> One says "Torque"
> crank that one all the way up;right?..................LOL
> 
> Let me know if that picture is too big, I will edit it.
> I will have to take a picture of the motor later.
> I can't find one like it on line.
> like I said, its cool looking, looks like a baby 56 frame.


Did a search for A1 A2 L1 L2 S1 S2 S3
None of the other numbers did me any good, but, A1 A2 L1 L2 S1 S2 S3
found me this 
https://www.minarikdrives.com/descriptions/document/250-0354.pdf
Minaric controllers, that is what this is. 
Not the very same board, but close enough to get me straight. 
L1 hot L2 neutral, A1 A2 motor, and S1 S2 S3 are the pot.  S2 is the center wiper. 
https://www.minarikdrives.com/descriptions/document/250-0354.pdf
What do I need for a fuse, about 7.5 amp?


----------



## mrbreezeet1

She said (the woman l got the tread mill off) that if you got too far toward the end of the belt/walkway 
it would stop and start and the kids got fed up with it. 
I hooked it up, and it ran, even got the pot in the right direction, But the motor was stopping and starting, and the brushes were sparking like crazy. 
Well I pulled this cover off, really it is a piece of paper, and was able to get to the brushes, 
had to take this little clip/spring deal out, I was puzzled, as there did look to be enough length left to the brushes. 
So I just sanded the brushes down a little, there seemed to be like a little rust or corrosion on the sides of the brushes too, so maybe they were not sliding or being pushed down properly. 
Anyways I cleaned everything up, and it seems to be fine now. 
If I run the motor real slow, (a crawl) it hums, there is a choke there too I might put in and try it. 
Funny that KK6039T board is going for more money on e bay than the MC-60. 
Funny to note too, where the MC-60 called for a 5K pot, the PDF I attached above calls for a 10K. 
But like l said, the treadmill came with a POT, and I don't know what the value is. 
I guess it's an OK little board?
I did not get any search results from this site regarding that board.

Kind of would not mind getting a fixer upper tread mill and fixing it, this one would have been an easy
fix. maybe I can make some room here, but my shop area is crowded enough. 
But to get one and fix it to actually use. 
At this point this one is not going back together. 
But the good thing is I might be able to use the frame to make a stand for my Craftsman bandsaw. 
I guess it would not pay to put a tread mill motor on the little bandsaw, you usually run those things 
pretty slow.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

Ran across this picture and comment, says not to ground the heat sink, only ground to the PC board. 
Is this something I need to be concerned with on My model KK6039T board, or any MC- 60 board for that matter. I don't know what they mean by ground only to the PC board.


----------



## John Hasler

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Ran across this picture and comment, says not to ground the heat sink, only ground to the PC board.
> Is this something I need to be concerned with on My model KK6039T board, or any MC- 60 board for that matter. I don't know what they mean by ground only to the PC board.



They mean that when you hook up the AC connect the green ground wire only to the terminal that they have marked "ground".  Do not connect it to the heat sink and do not electrically connect the heat sink to ground or to any metal.   Heatsinks on circuit boards are often internally connected to parts of the circuitry and consequently must be electrically isolated.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

John Hasler said:


> They mean that when you hook up the AC connect the green ground wire only to the terminal that they have marked "ground".  Do not connect it to the heat sink and do not electrically connect the heat sink to ground or to any metal.   Heatsinks on circuit boards are often internally connected to parts of the circuitry and consequently must be electrically isolated.



Well, l will have to look, I don't think the KK6039T board has a terminal marked Ground. 
Oh, I didn't know about not screwing the board to metal that is grounded. 
I might have screwed it right down to the drill press. 
So If there is not a Ground terminal, then just do not ground the board?
I don't have a MC-60 to look at, I only have the KK6039T board.  
I was pretty sure the heat sink on the KK6039T board was screwed right to the frame of the treadmill, and that the power cord ground was also screwed to the frame of the treadmill, but like I said, I was not real mindful, as the lady was in a hurry.

Edit, 
And here is a better picture of a MC-60 board?
Don't see a ground terminal on it either?


----------



## John Hasler

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Well, l will have to look, I don't think the KK6039T board has a terminal marked Ground.



Then you needn't worry about it.



> I didn't know about not screwing the board to metal that is grounded.   I might have screwed it right down to the drill press.



If it works you're ok.



> So If there is not a Ground terminal, then just do not ground the board?



Right.



> I was pretty sure the heat sink on the KK6039T board was screwed right to the frame of the treadmill, and that the power cord ground was also screwed to the frame of the treadmill...



Then the heat sink for that board must not be hot.  It's a design tradeoff.  Some engineers will do it one way, some the other.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

John Hasler said:


> Then you needn't worry about it.
> 
> 
> 
> If it works you're ok.
> 
> 
> 
> Right.
> 
> Then the heat sink for that board must not be hot.  It's a design tradeoff.  Some engineers will do it one way, some the other.



Thank You John.

So, IOW's, I should be able to, (won't sue you if something happens............LOL...........) ground the heat sink, and/or mount the heat sink to the DP frame and ground the DP Frame?

BTY,
got it mounted last night, just have the board hanging there for now, but like I was saying, 
The mounting on this TM motor is Sweet!!
"Baby 56 frame" for sure. 
Mounting bracket on motor matched right up with DP motor mount, 
5/8" keyed double ended shaft, (keyed on both shafts) So a off the shelf pulley was able to be used. 
And was able to use my same belt. 

What is nice about this (double ended key way'ed shafts)  is, as it looks like the motor brushes are in there at an angle, l would say it's best to run it in the factory designed direction only.  
But if I needed the other direction, I could just flip the motor end for end 180*. 

One thing I did notice, at real slow speed, (sort of a crawl) I can stall the spindle by hand, and the controller does not try to compensate for the stall. 
Maybe I can try tweaking the IR compensation pot for this. 
But so far I think it is pretty cool. 
As far as breaking the center wire to the pot, so I can re-start at the speed I stopped at, I don't think I will. It is pretty easy to just judge the speed I had it set to before. 
One thing I did adjust was the Max speed, I don't think I need it quite as fast as the board was allowing.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

Bumped up the IR comp, and now when you stall it, the board senses it, and speeds the motor right up. 
I am having trouble getting good pictures, only have one of the pot that came with the TM, mounted on the DP.
Think it is pretty cool the way it says "Speed" on it.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

OK, got the Treadmill board mounted in a nice little box that had a switch on it already, you might recognize it from the beginning of the post, l took the board and pot out of that box, and installed the treadmill board and pot.
Made for a pretty clean job.
Plus the box was given to me.
And the treadmill was given to me.
Total cost,; Nothing.
Here is a short video on you tube showing the drill press set up.


----------



## rbertalotto

Thanks for this thread. It gave me the incentive to add a drive to my lathe. I did an article with pictures here: 
www.rvbprecision.com

nice work on your conversion.

thanks


----------



## mrbreezeet1

rbertalotto said:


> Thanks for this thread. It gave me the incentive to add a drive to my lathe. I did an article with pictures here:
> www.rvbprecision.com
> 
> nice work on your conversion.
> 
> thanks



Boy, you really did a nice job on that, when you tie in the new switch  for forward and reverse, did you have to chris cross wire the DPDT  switch? like in this picture. 
I don’t really like the switch that came on that board either.

Talking about the forward/reverse for the lead screw. 
I had never thought of using both high and low speeds. 
I hope my wiper motor is happy running in both directions.

_Oh, and to wire the motor for 2 speeds, would I just run my negative  wire out of the PWM board straight to the motor, and my positive wire to the center lug of a SPDT switch, and the two motor leads, high and low to the outside lugs of the spdt switch; Correct?_
_*Has to be, just 2nd guessing myself I guess. *_


----------



## caveBob

rbertalotto said:


> Thanks for this thread. It gave me the incentive to add a drive to my lathe. I did an article with pictures here:
> www.rvbprecision.com
> 
> nice work on your conversion.
> 
> thanks



rbertalotto, your mod turned out terrific, great job! It kind of makes you wonder why it didn't come that way from the factory huh... well, now it is. 

mrbreezeet1, sweet job on your drill press, really like how you re-purposed the box and speed dial, cool! In your vid I see a chain on the back side of the press, is that a power table lift as well?

Wow, it sure has rpms too doesn't it. Do you have a readout planned for monitoring rpms? If not, here's a cool kit I saw mentioned recently on this forum:

MachTach
http://www.machtach.com/Gallery.html

http://www.machtach.com/Buy.html


----------



## mrbreezeet1

Thanks Bob, Yeah, someone had given me that box, and Jim said I couldn't use it for what I had wanted, so I thought I may as well use it here. 
The guy said "If you can use it. I could have it"
He didn't say it had to be as the box was originally engineered.  
It had a 110 volt female outlet on it too, I was going to wire in for the work light, but it was getting too bulky in there. (crowded) 
No, that chain just has the chuck key on it. 
Was not planing a readout for the rpm. 

I might steal rbertalotto's Idea for mounting my power supply. I was thinking about mounting the PWM and the power supply all in one box, but did you notice where he has his power supply down on the side of the lathe stand?
My power supply is already in a box, so may as well just mount it by it self.


----------



## rbertalotto

Yes, I had to wire the DPDT switch exactly as you have in the picture. The controller I bought had the F-R switch prewired. I replaced the switch with a mini weatherproof (cutting fluid proof) switch.

Today I added a few LEDs to the control panel. The controller has LEDs mounted on the circuit board that I removed and replaced with panel mount versions from Radio Shack. I'll update the web site article with part numbers etc.


----------



## caveBob

rbertalotto said:


> Yes, I had to wire the DPDT switch exactly as you have in the picture. The controller I bought had the F-R switch prewired. I replaced the switch with a mini weatherproof (cutting fluid proof) switch.
> 
> *Today I added a few LEDs to the control panel. The controller has LEDs mounted on the circuit board that I removed and replaced with panel mount versions from Radio Shack.* I'll update the web site article with part numbers etc.



Now that's funny... when I saw your video I thought it would look cool to have LED indicator lights on the box but didn't want to mention it fearing I would sound nit-picking.  Can't wait to see the latest vid...


----------



## rbertalotto

Like this!  I like "Bling".... :thumbsup2:




I updated the web page with the Radio Shack part numbers.

www.rvbprecision.com


----------



## mrbreezeet1

rbertalotto said:


> Yes, I had to wire the DPDT switch exactly as you have in the picture. The controller I bought had the F-R switch prewired. I replaced the switch with a mini weatherproof (cutting fluid proof) switch.
> 
> Today I added a few LEDs to the control panel. The controller has LEDs mounted on the circuit board that I removed and replaced with panel mount versions from Radio Shack. I'll update the web site article with part numbers etc.



Yeah, I have the same controller, just came from overseas, and took forever to get here. 
So those 4 wires going from the board to the switch, 2 black and 2 red iirc, so what colors go where on the switch I have shown?

Maybe if I remove the shrink the from the motor control board, I would be able to see it?


----------



## rbertalotto

Is the whole board shrink wrapped? Did your board come with a pre-wired forward / reverse switch?


----------



## mrbreezeet1

rbertalotto said:


> Is the whole board shrink wrapped? Did your board come with a pre-wired forward / reverse switch?



l am so stupid sometimes, I get so mad at myself!!
Well, more care less when I type or post something. 
Of course not. (Is the whole board shrink wrapped?)
The  wiring for the switch is shrink wrapped .
Yes, it is the same board you got.


----------



## rbertalotto

If you remove the shrink wrap and the hot melt glue underneath, you'll see the switch is wired exactly like the pictures posted above.

Just move the wires over to another DPDT switch.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

that tach Bob linked to is pretty reasonable, *$56.00

I thought it was going to be more than that. 
*


----------



## mrbreezeet1

rbertalotto said:


> If you remove the shrink wrap and the hot melt glue underneath, you'll see the switch is wired exactly like the pictures posted above.
> 
> Just move the wires over to another DPDT switch.



I see, OK thanks,


----------



## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> My belt grinder still has the original MC-2100 control board that came with that motor off of a "dead" treadmill. Pretty sure it is/was 5k from Radio Shack, I'll check to be sure in a bit or by morning k.



I didn't think the MC-2100 had a straight hook up to use a Pot on. 
What does the hook up look like?


----------



## mrbreezeet1

the seller I got the board off was (mc-60) was able to send me 2 brushes and the plastic clips that hold them in. 
I have to install the brushes, and make sure the mc-60 board is ok.


----------



## caveBob

mrbreezeet1 said:


> I didn't think the MC-2100 had a straight hook up to use a Pot on.
> What does the hook up look like?



I was able to re-locate the spec sheet in a folder that I used at the time:




just went out for a couple quick pics of opened and closed:







A little hokey I suppose but it was my first "electro-project". 

Grabbed the cheapest box I could find at the local home depot that looked big enough to stuff with the innards of the treadmill. Added a 12V transformer for the computer case fans for cooling... I'm sure now, looking back that I didn't need to... part of the learning curve for me.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

what are you running with that one?
That must be a different version than the one I was looking at. 
Here is the one I was looking at, but there is no where to hook up a Pot to it. 
They say you need a separate PWM circuit. 
I guess I am better off with just a mc-60. 
There was another treadmill in the paper for free, but the guy didn't get back to me. 
I did get that 1st motor that was missing the brush and plastic clip, running. 
I still have to test the mc-60 board I got.


----------



## caveBob

I wonder if it may be less hassle going with a KB Electronics controller, maybe something on eBay? I don't know enough to recommend a model for you but they make good stuff... here's one you could chase down specs on:

New KB Electronics Inc. KBIC-120 Motor Speed Controller - $25.00 + $7.15  Expedited Shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-KB-Electronics-Inc-KBIC-120-Motor-Speed-Controller-/131396049497

The controller runs this:


----------



## mrbreezeet1

did you build that belt grinder?
Yeah, it would be nice to get it at that price. _(Not that I think thats going to happen)_
They say that KBIC 120 is a good board.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv7Q1_bQeeE

_*EDIT*_
Do you guys know if I can weld a bracket onto the motor case or maybe more so on to the bracket that is already 
welded to the motor housing?
Will I do anything to the windings or the magnets, or should I just try to bolt something to the brackets. 
It is still in the thought process, I am not sure if I have to weld onto it or not.


----------



## caveBob

mrbreezeet1 said:


> did you build that belt grinder?



Ya, at the time I was looking for a faster way of grinding chisel and plane iron bevels... lol. Now, for shaping/grinding a little bigger "stuff".


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## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> Ya, at the time I was looking for a faster way of grinding chisel and plane iron bevels... lol. Now, for shaping/grinding a little bigger "stuff".



that looks like a good job on that grinder you built. 

*KB ELECTRONICS MOTOR SPEED CONTROLLER  KBIC-120 120V (9429A)*

It was used, but said to work fine, $29.00 free shipping. 
I couldn't pass it up. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271731641302?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## mrbreezeet1

Look at the KK6039T
And look at the KBIC above. 
Looks like a lot more components on the KBIC board.    
Like I said, "They" say that KBIC 120 is a good little board. 

_On those little PWM boards we got_, and you guys have mounted in a box, did you mount it (the board) on some type of plastic or rubber mounts?
Looks like I am going to need something to keep the solder joints from shorting to the metal box. 
(unless l use a plastic box)
This is the little board for the wiper/leadscrew motor I am talking about now. 
Also, do you think I need to run a fuse in the Hot wire feeding into my power supply. 
I was fooling with it tonight, but I am going to have to get some different pulleys. 
I had the lead screw geared down too much. I need a smaller pulley on the lead screw, or a bigger pulley on the motor.


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## mrbreezeet1

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## caveBob

Now that's awesome! Like "they" always say, it never hurts to ask... good on ya for doing so and nabbing the discount. Can't wait to see it/them in action...


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## mrbreezeet1

This treadmill motor I have sitting here, says 2.63 HP and 21.4 amps. 
But that must not be right, as the resistors only goes up to 1 1/2 HP.
Or would I use the 1/4 HP resistor for this motor.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odk...=0&_trksid=m194&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSRCHX:SRCH


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## JimDawson

I think the first question is:  What is the HP or Amp rating on the controller that you have?  If you have a 21 amp motor and are trying to run it with a 15 amp controller, it's probably not going to like it.  Based only on that chart, it looks like the max is 15 amps, or 3 HP at 180 volts.  If that is a 90 volt motor, you may have the wrong controller for it.

If you want to try it, then I would get the 0.006 ohm resistor.  The controller will probably current limit anyway to protect it's self, so the motor may not develop it's full rated power.


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## caveBob

When I first got the KBMD-240D I asked the seller what they recommended, and as your motor is similar to the one I used at the time... oughta be close. They said that the treadmill motors were not to be trusted, rated HP-wise, so went with a 1 HP resistor. Never had a problem, always ran fine if not up to its full potential if a higher rated resistor were used. If you have an empty 20A circuit available you might try the 1.5 HP resistor, but use the 1 HP resistor if on a shared or 15A circuit.

Hopefully, someone with practical experience/training will chime in and lead you in the straight and narrow if I'm off course here...


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## mrbreezeet1

I don't know?
They all said these KBIC 120 controllers were good. 
I am not sure what the amps of the board is. 

What about this Auto Inhibit" function I have been reading about?
Did anyone have to do anything with that.


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## JimDawson

I'm going to go with what caveBob said.  Makes sense to me.  As I have said before, I'm not really up to speed on the treadmill motors and controllers.


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## mrbreezeet1

I will go with the 1 HP resistor then.


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## mrbreezeet1

In this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdO2dZuBObI
I think he says you should remove power to the A/C hot line before changing direction of the motor. 
Is that what he is saying?
I thought the center position of the DPDT switch was off, and as long as the motor was not turning, 
it could not produce "backwash" current into the board.


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## caveBob

Had a hard time understanding him at that point... think he said "inhibit switch". The KBMD-240 has a Forward/Brake/Reverse switch that does what I think he may be talking about. What it does is to momentarily lock at center (Brake) from Forward or Reverse, keeping you from going directly from one direction to the other... immediately. You're supposed to let the motor wind down to full stop, then change rotation direction. I think... 

Don't know if you have the PDF docs for your drive(s) yet, on this page - http://www.kbelectronics.com/Variable_Speed_DC_Drives/DC_Drives_Chassis.html it says:



> Options: *Auxiliary Heat Sink (P/N 9861)*, Barrier Terminal Kit (P/N 9863) Barrier Terminal Board (P/N 9884),     SI-5 Signal Isolator (P/N 9443), Combination Fuse kit (P/N 9849). AC line and Armature fuse supplied separately.
> 
> *An Auxiliary Heat Sink is required when operating motors above ½ HP at 90VDC and 1 HP at 180VDC.



I forgot to mention that earlier... if going above 3/4 HP you need the auxiliary heat sink. Found a couple places real quick:

9861 Auxiliary Heatsink 7" @ Amazon - $30.20 & FREE Shipping
http://www.amazon.com/KB-Electronics-9861-Auxiliary-Heatsink/dp/B007YA3722

KB Electronics auxiliary heatsink 9861 for KBIC, KBMD, KBMG, and KBMM controls @ eBay - $30.10
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KB-Electron...BIC-KBMD-KBMG-and-KBMM-controls-/221417612142

For more info, I got lots of good hits at google using the search phrase "KBIC 120 treadmill motor forum"

and...

Data Sheet
http://www.kbelectronics.com/data_sheets/kbic.pdf

Manual
http://www.kbelectronics.com/manuals/kbic_manual.pdf


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## mrbreezeet1

I asked at you tube, 
[h=2]Stream[/h]

[h=3]anthony diodati[/h]2 hours ago

Are  you saying I need to turn off the power to the AC hot line before  switching direction, or just let the motor come to a stop. I will be  using a DPDT switch in my motor wires to reverse direction.




Reply
  ·  








xynudu1 hour ago



+anthony diodati  Let the motor come to a stop is OK.  Just so long as the armature is  not generating any DC (backwash) when you make the direction change.    You also can turn off the power before switch change.  Either way, the  armature must be stationary at the change point.  Rob


Reply










So I guess just letting the motor stop is OK. 
I have heard of those switches, that you must pause, That would be nice.


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## mrbreezeet1

Well, for $28.43 I got this one, was said to be an "open box" 
Sold by Amazon. 
Normally it is a $150.00 motor. 
Should be OK, of course I do still have the TM motor too. 
Maybe use it on something else. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KA2R7TA/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## caveBob

HOW on earth did you you score that motor for only $28.43? That's crazy awesome scratchin-the-head-how'd-ya-do-that good!

Can't wait to see how it runs...


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## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> HOW on earth did you you score that motor for only ? That's crazy awesome scratchin-the-head-how'd-ya-do-that good!
> 
> Can't wait to see how it runs...



I don't know, it was just on there, under "1 used from $28.43" Actually it was about a dollar more, and the price was reduced while it was in my cart.  
So I had to add a few more odds and ends to get it up to $35.00. 
http://www.filleritem.com/


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## mrbreezeet1

I don't have it all hooked up yet, but with my 1/2 nut engaged, i can turn the lead screw about 1/4 turn before the carriage moves. 
Is this normal?

I have only threaded a few times, but it seemed to thread OK?


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## caveBob

Runout from the half nuts? Are they pretty worn? What is the leadscrew thread size? What ever threads per inch divided by 1/4 turn before slack is taken up = how much runout you have...

Darn, was hoping to see it running...


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## mrbreezeet1

it's been too cold for me these days. It didn't used to bother me but it does more now. 
I don't know I didn't look at them, I'll have to pull the apron when it warms up.


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## mrbreezeet1

UPS must deliver on Sundays now, I got the motor today. 
I don't know, this thing looks brand new, still have to try it. 
Either the brushes are not installed or they give you extra ones, as they are in a separate pack, and look new as well.

EDIT, Added a picture.
This is supposed to be TENV but if you look at the tag, it does say TEFC. Thats better I guess?
_There is a fan in it, I don't know if TENV have a fan or not. _
_*
EDIT, brushes are Extra, motor does have brushes already installed. *_


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## mrbreezeet1

OK, Im confused again. 
Are these two pictures correct, showing how to wire a DPDT switch to reverse a DC motor? 
This is what I found, and what makes sense to me,
 but I have seen 2 youtube videos, that say you connect the voltage (power in)  to the outside set of switch tabs, and the motor leads to the center switch tabs.

found a third one that shows the same thing.


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## JimDawson

Either way would work, electrically they're identical.


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## mrbreezeet1

OK, Thanks Jim, 
 I can see how it works with power to the center, but 
can't really see how it works with power to the ends, and motor to the center(s) 
But if you say it is, then it is. 
Had me going for a while there.


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## JimDawson

It completes the circuit in the same way in both cases.  Draw it out on paper and you will see what I mean.


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## mrbreezeet1

OK thanks again Jim. 
Got these switches for my AC power in, coming from E bay. (SPST)
I do already have a DPDT switch from radio shack, but I saw these spst switches on e bay, 
4 of them for $10.00 with shipping. 
Did not seem too bad. 
I ordered my power resistor(s) and 2 sets of the fuse holder kits from amazon. 
Just wishing it would warm up a little, but I may start wiring the box up stairs. 

Deciding whether or not to use the inhibit switch or not. 
I was told as long as I dial my pot down to 0 speed before reversing, I did not really need the inhibit switch. 
Also have to consider, don't want to start in reverse too fast, as the logan of course is a threaded spindle. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111581065644?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## JimDawson

Looks like a reasonable deal.  Looking forward to seeing it all working.


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## mrbreezeet1

Well, I am still living, .....LOL
Might try to bid on a inside job if they will still let me bid in it.(I think it closed yesterday, (the 19th) but sometimes they will let another application in.  You are in the Wheeling tunnels. and send trucks out, or if there is a wreck, and the police call you, you send the safety man, and the tow trucks, send the salt trucks out, stuff like that.
They say, once you get on to it, it's pretty easy.

Everyone is telling me I should just stay on disability, but disability was supposed to review me in December, should have been over and done by now.
Disability is not letting me know what is going on,
But this will be more money than I am getting from disability, and in about 6 years, when I retire, it will be more money then, cause I;ll get about I think it's about $400.00 a month pension, plus My Social Security.
That will be at 66 years old and 2 months. I will turn 60 in October, so it's not like it's forever.
What the heck, 6 years will go quick.
I think If they will let me bid on it, I may try to go for it.
Only sucky part, is I am pretty sure it is all 3 shifts. 8-4 one week, 4-11 next week, and 11-7 third week.
Or maybe you actually stay on it (each shift) 10 days, or 2 weeks, I am not sure.
But it will be the same (should be) money when I left when I got sick.

Oh yeah, the Lathe, is that what this thread is "supposed to be about"
Well, it's real cold right now, so I started mounting my KBIC 120 board in the work box, I got a few pretty nice ones from radio shack.(I am working up stairs of course) Mounted the board, and the Pot, and the power switch, but when I got to the DPDT switch,
come to find out it is On/ON/ with no center off spot. I think I would just feel better with a center off in the motor reverse switch.
So, back to radio shack, website does show my store having them in stock.
Supposed to go down to -8* tonight,
I thought were were in the clear, then it stats getting cold and snowing again.
We are lucky though, show id enough to be a nuisance, but nothing real bad.
Thanks for listening.


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## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> HOW on earth did you you score that motor for only $28.43? That's crazy awesome scratchin-the-head-how'd-ya-do-that good!
> 
> Can't wait to see how it runs...


Bob, It that a 1 HP DC motor you have on your lathe?


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## caveBob

Sorry to hear the trials and tribulations you are going through atm mrbreezeet1, sounds quaint I'm sure, but like they say... "this too shall pass".

Motor is: Baldor CDP3440 3/4 HP


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## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> Sorry to hear the trials and tribulations you are going through atm mrbreezeet1, sounds quaint I'm sure, but like they say... "this too shall pass".
> 
> Motor is: Baldor CDP3440 3/4 HP


Oh, OK, Thanks, 3/4 or 1 would have been better, but I have to try this 1/2.


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## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> Sorry to hear the trials and tribulations you are going through atm mrbreezeet1, sounds quaint I'm sure, but like they say... "this too shall pass".
> 
> Motor is: Baldor CDP3440 3/4 HP


OK, so you have a 3/4 HP motor. Did you still use the counter shaft correct, mine is a Logan with the double V motor pulley
and a double flat counter shaft pulley . Uses a regular V belt, you know.
Did you come up with a double V pulley for you motor, or is it just a single pulley, and about how big is the Pulley(s) (at the motor)

I am wondering too if I need to measure and adjust the output voltage coming out of my board, or is that should be pretty well taken care of by the resistor. 
It is a 1/2HP resistor. 

Does your controller have 110 or 220  volt input?
Thanks Bob,


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## caveBob

Originally it came with a 2 step pulley which became slightly warped over time causing vibration. I replaced it with a good balanced cast iron pulley from Amazon... will go out and measure it in a bit. It runs nice and very smooth, still using the counter shaft pulleys for overall speed, winding down from each step with the controller so I have great torque.

Just 11o volt service out in the cave I'm afraid, with a total of 15A at that...


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## caveBob

That was easy, just checked my orders from Amazon... 

Martin AK30 5/8 FHP Sheave BS, 3L/4L Belt Section, 1 Groove, 5/8" Bore, Class 30 Gray Cast Iron, 3.05" OD, 8134 max rpm, 2.46" Pitch Diameter/2.8 Datum
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004BKIW9G

TB Woods AK6434 FHP Bored-to-size V-Belt Sheave, A Belt Section, 1 Groove, 3/4" Bore, Cast Iron, 6.25" OD, 4000 max rpm
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003N17LQO


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## mrbreezeet1

OK Thanks, so your using the 6" on the counter shaft?

l have a 2 step one on there now, but it's 1/2" bore, I don't want to bore it out.


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## caveBob

Yeup, here's a couple from a quick search for 1/2" bore, ~6":

5.95 O.D. 1/2 BORE 1 GROOVE PULLEY
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-...-95-O-D-1-2-BORE-1-GROOVE-PULLEY-1-BK62-A.axd
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Pulleys/Finished-Bore-Pulleys/

Single V-Groove Pulley - 6" Pitch Dia., 1/2" Bore
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Single-V-Groove-Pulley-6-Pitch-Dia-1-2-Bore/G5436

Do the math using your existing pulley sizes for reference...


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## mrbreezeet1

6.25 OD on your counter shaft, and 3" OD on you motor, looks like "about" 1/2 size at the motor, in relation to the counter shaft.
My countershaft is good, I will have to see what it measures. I know there are 2 sizes on the countershaft.

Do you still have pretty good power at the spindle at say 1/2 speed?

Did you ever put a tach on the motor, are you getting 1750 RPM, or possible a little more?

I think the voltage is what limits the RPM.  I will probably measure Voltage at full power for the heck of it.
I wonder if that motor can handle a little over voltage?

Actually my old motor (and pulley) are the 1/2" shaft/bore. I hate to bore it out in case I want to/need to put my old motor back on.
But I have some 5/8 pulley's around here. 

I am actually wondering if I can just but 2 single pulley's face to face to make up a double pulley?
Then I could use both of my counter shaft pulley's. 
I will have to try it. 

I got to get busy on this, and a lot of things, having some motivation issues right now.
Here is the switches and POT in a Radio shack project box for the KBIC-120.
Cost about $8.00.
thought that was reasonable.
I got a label maker I have not used yet, but I will make some more labels for it.
I guess they say the tape for the label maker is expensive, but if you make you labels all together and cut them apart, you won't waste as much.
I don't know, I didn't fool with it yet.
IIRC it was a $30.00 maker, but I got it on sale for around $10.00 at lowes.


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## caveBob

Ya, the cold weather sure does put a dampener on your motivation huh...

*Do you still have pretty good power at the spindle at say 1/2 speed?*
I really do, even down to say 25%, pretty much the whole range... but remember: still using the countershaft pulleys to mechanically "gear" to a specific speed range. You use variable speed to ramp down rpms from there, whereas a "stock" motor is single speed limited by the top speed of whatever "mechanical gear/speed range" you have your belts tied to.

*Did you ever put a tach on the motor, are you getting 1750 RPM, or possible a little more?*
I have, used one of those portable hand held laser tachs:

Handheld Digital Laser Photo Tachometer RPM Tach Small Engine Motor Speed Gauge
http://www.amazon.com/Handheld-Digital-Laser-Tachometer-Engine/dp/B009T4REQG


...don't think that is the _exact_ one I have, but same idea.

*Here is the switches and POT in a Radio shack project box for the KBIC-120.
Cost about $8.00.
thought that was reasonable.*

I love those little boxes for all kinds of things too... as you mentioned earlier, the cold... got tired of being annoyed with the cold... I had/have painting I want to do & not patient enough to wait for Spring to get here, cobbled together a paint enclosure using a couple of those different size project boxes to do what needed doing:







Man, if you have a few pulleys lying around that will work for now, I'd say experiment with them & see what practical sizes might best work for you. Some times you'll find your mojo just from getting back into it and getting busy building from small successes...

Those label makers are fun to use/play with, you got a great price on it. Now, go find your mojo and get some stuff spinning... I wanna see pics of it running...


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## mrbreezeet1

Well, Got the Box all wired up, and Nothing!
Checked other (new) kbic-120 board . Nothing. 
Tested MC-60 board Nothing. 
WTH. OK, cant be 3 bad boards can it? 
So had my MC-60 board hooked up, trying to check A+ with a volt meter, Tired, careless, couldn't see real good ............BAM...........
Shorted my meter lead to the chassis. 
Scared the ##)) out of me. 
Decide to test Pot, Bad!
Thanks (in part) to The bad POT from Radio shack, I fried my MC-60 board. 
Got another pot wired up, both used and new kbic-120 are working, reverse switch only had one direction. 
Off to radio shack to change out the Pot and DPDT switch, It was a Bad DPDT switch too. 
But at least it is working now. 
Bummer I fried My MC-60 though. 
Don't know if it is worth trying to fix. I don't know too much about electronics. 
Maybe if I see something obviously burned up, I can try replacing it. 
I got this one for $35.00 shipped, but he raised then to $45.00 shipped. 
I would say test all pots and switches before installing from now on.


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## mrbreezeet1

Actually looks like I shorted the L2 terminal to the chassis, Not the A+ .
Any Idea what part that would have fried?


----------



## mrbreezeet1

Question, For your D/C motor set ups, for you DPDT switches for reverse, are you guys just using a regular DPDT switch say from radio shack,
(The radio Shack switch is said to be "Rated 20 amps at 12VDC")
http://www.radioshack.com/dpdt-20-amp-flip-switch/2750710.html#.VRlyX-FTmSo
or are you using some type of heavy duty D/C rated DPDT switch?

Or these ones on e bay are said to be rated , 20 amp @ 125 volts A/C.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291254788963?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
and if using about a 20 amp @ 125 Volt A/C switch, are they holding up OK?
I have been turning off My power before changing direction.

This one on e bay already has the jumpers built in, and is said to be rated 30 amps,  @ 12 VDC.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160140769301?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
I had read the A/C rated switches are not the same amperage using them for D/C.
But then read the damage was done when turning off the switch, due to arcing.
But then I thought if I am turning off my power before reversing, I should not get any arcing.
But wonder if these switches are heave enough to carry the motor running load?


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## mrbreezeet1

here is the board, can anyone tell just where the open might be. 
I don't get any lights when l power up the board.


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## mrbreezeet1

This shows L1 and L2


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## mrbreezeet1

Got the MC-60 fixed. Refer to picture below. 
I checked a KBIC-120 board I have, and there were 2 diodes near L1 and L2 that looked just like the 2 on the MC-60 board, and there was 0 resistance between 1 side of each diode and 1 A/C (and only one a/c tab) for each respective diode, So I figured that almost had to be it, and took a chance and bridged L1 and D3 and L2 and D4 (shown on the photo below.)
lt seems to work fine. I got a little sloppy on the bottom one, and see the spot right above D4?
I kind of bridged into that. But looking at the Schematic again, It already is tied into that spot. , it is one side of the MOV. 
Pretty good job for  knowing next to nothing about electronics....................LOL


----------



## Bill C.

Be sure they don't sell you pots that are designed for audio use.  They if I remember correctly can't handle heavy amperage.  I didn't see any bad solder joints in your photos.    I hope you got it working.


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## mrbreezeet1

They were the one I was told here to get, I found them on line, and wrote the # down. Linnier, (sp) IIRC they were the type. 
Radio Shack number was/is  271-1714 it's a 5 K pot. 
It was open between L1 and D3 and L2 and D4. 
But the 1st pot was defective, Nothing would work,  and why I was checking for voltage, when I shorted L2 to the Heat Sink.


----------



## Bill C.

Glad you were not hurt when it short circuited and it is working.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

Got a few controllers, ( KBIC -120's )I am fooling around with, was getting erratic running out of the DC motor when I would move the pot around.  
Testing with a meter across the outside terminals, I was also getting erratic readings when moving the wires ant the pot. 
I cut my wires off and had all three on the meter,  wiggling them around, they (the wires) seem OK, Tested with a pot that came with a merrimac motor controller, (It's actually a 10K pot, ) But testing that pot with the meter, it seemed OK. 
And testing that pot on the boards, the motor works properly. 
This looks like the 2nd bad pot I have gotten from Radio Shack So Far. the 1st. bad one helping me to burn up the MC-60. 
had it not been bad, I would not have been trying to test the board, and shorted the L2 lead. 
Is there a better place to buy these 5K linear pots from?


----------



## caveBob

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Is there a better place to buy these 5K linear pots from?



I just went to Amazon looking for "5K linear potentiometer", saw this one:

5k?, 2W 1/4" Shaft Linear Taper Potentiometer - $6.95  + $4.93 shipping
http://www.amazon.com/5k%2126-Shaft-Linear-Taper-Potentiometer/dp/B00C9NWQ8A

found the 1 reviewers' comment interesting:


> Am I the only one who is FED UP with the weird Metric flimsy Die-cast zinc potentiometers with intermittent connections and noise in the wiper that everyone is pushing?
> I use these for industrial motor controllers.
> Here it is, the genuine rugged article that can be used in harsh environments, and probably will not fail.
> 
> I am not exporting, so for me, Metrification is a silly affectation, a pose, like a Spring Water List in a pretentious restaurant- Particularly when the Metric versions so commonly offered are cheap garbage.
> Yes, Metric is the way the World is going, and it eliminates silly fractional measurements like 13/64. But it is not a reason to buy a lousy product.



...looks nice and heavy duty, but I'm not an electrician either...


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## mrbreezeet1

Thanks Bob, Maybe I'll try one. I am not even going to bother returning this one to R.S for exchange.
http://www.amazon.com/5k%2126-Shaft-Linear-Taper-Potentiometer/dp/B00C9NWQ8A
Boy, that does look like it's made nice.
Hopefully l can get a break on shipping if l buy more than one.

Anyone ever run into this?
one of my KBIC-120's seem to still feed a very small amount of power to the motor, with the pot dialed all the way down. My other 2 are not doing this. 
I swapped out the resistors, no change, and adjusted all the mini pots the same as the other that is working OK. Also tried adjusting The MIN. pot down all the way, it still feeds a little voltage. 
It is just slight, to where the motor hums, but does not run.


----------



## mrbreezeet1

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Thanks Bob, Maybe I'll try one. I am not even going to bother returning this one to R.S for exchange.
> http://www.amazon.com/5k%2126-Shaft-Linear-Taper-Potentiometer/dp/B00C9NWQ8A
> Boy, that does look like it's made nice.
> Hopefully l can get a break on shipping if l buy more than one.
> 
> Anyone ever run into this?
> one of my KBIC-120's seem to still feed a very small amount of power to the motor, with the pot dialed all the way down. My other 2 are not doing this.
> I swapped out the resistors, no change, and adjusted all the mini pots the same as the other that is working OK. Also tried adjusting The MIN. pot down all the way, it still feeds a little voltage.
> It is just slight, to where the motor hums, but does not run.



Then that wasn't bad enough, I was pulling this little jumper from the fuse to the A= tab off, and it was real tight, I pulled the tab clean out of the PCB.
I was able to solder it back in though. ............LOL

I see you can only edit so so long now .
Yeah, they give you a break on shipping, here is for shipping on 4 of them.


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## mrbreezeet1

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Anyone ever run into this?
> one of my KBIC-120's seem to still feed a very small amount of power to the motor, with the pot dialed all the way down. My other 2 are not doing this.
> I swapped out the resistors, no change, and adjusted all the mini pots the same as the other that is working OK. Also tried adjusting The MIN. pot down all the way, it still feeds a little voltage.
> It is just slight, to where the motor hums, but does not run.


nobody has any Ideas about this board? I sure would like to get it working right. 
Bet this would be a nice motor, but your looking at $200.00 shipped, and its a 180 Volt, so you would need a 220 volt input controller. 
Bet it would have some power though. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-HP-2500...588?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4b37b61c


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## JimDawson

I'd say that would be a heck of a deal at $200 shipped.   I'd be looking at Dart controllers, not cheap but a known industrial controller.


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## mrbreezeet1

JimDawson said:


> I'd say that would be a heck of a deal at $200 shipped.   I'd be looking at Dart controllers, not cheap but a known industrial controller.


Yeah, I would like to have it Jim, but it's a little more than I can spend right now. Then I would need a 180 Volt board.
Let me ask, I got some primary wire for hooking up these motors to the board, I got # 16 wire.
That should be heavy enough for the Board to the Motor; Correct?
But It got me to thinking, Is  16AWG  OK for the pots, or is it over kill.
I see most pots that come with the board, wired up are using thinner wire, maybe 18 0r 20.
Would 16 be OK?  If so, but if I wanted to use a thinner wire, what is best for the pots, 18AWG or 20AWG.
Seems as though the thinner wire would be easier to route in the boxes, and maybe wiring to a Pot. in the headstock.
I got a nice OEM style reverse switch coming. Should be able to use for DC motor reverse.
Might need some help with the wiring when I am ready.
Fellow at the Logan Yahoo group has it.
here is a picture of it.
Although, l just noticed, it says 1/4 HP DC 115/220. I hope the switch is heavy enough for my application.
I am using the 1/2 HP motor from Amazon.
I am using the inhibit function, or turning off my power, or dialing all the way down to 0, before switching directions.
Thanks,
Tony


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## atlas ten

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Yeah, I would like to have it Jim, but it's a little more than I can spend right now. Then I would need a 180 Volt board.
> Let me ask, I got some primary wire for hooking up these motors to the board, I got # 16 wire.
> That should be heavy enough for the Board to the Motor; Correct?
> But It got me to thinking, Is  16AWG  OK for the pots, or is it over kill.
> I see most pots that come with the board, wired up are using thinner wire, maybe 18 0r 20.
> Would 16 be OK?  If so, but if I wanted to use a thinner wire, what is best for the pots, 18AWG or 20AWG.
> Seems as though the thinner wire would be easier to route in the boxes, and maybe wiring to a Pot. in the headstock.
> I got a nice OEM style reverse switch coming. Should be able to use for DC motor reverse.
> Might need some help with the wiring when I am ready.
> Fellow at the Logan Yahoo group has it.
> here is a picture of it.
> Although, l just noticed, it says 1/4 HP DC 115/220. I hope the switch is heavy enough for my application.
> I am using the 1/2 HP motor from Amazon.
> I am using the inhibit function, or turning off my power, or dialing all the way down to 0, before switching directions.
> Thanks,
> Tony
> View attachment 98809
> View attachment 98810


In my opinion I would use wire that I had on hand for the pots. Likey 18 gauge. I don't bother with anything smaller. 
i bought a fan speed control to use on my 7x12 lathe. It worked fine for my testing till the transistor poped unexpectedly after the final hardwire. It came with a 250k pot in it that I will replace with a 100k to 150k pot.  The 250k will not give me the fine speef control over the full use of the pot rotation. I can only use the highest portion for control of speed. The smaller pot will give me finer adjustment using more dial rotation. Hope this makes sense.
Jack


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## JimDawson

16GA is probably overkill for the pot but OK,  just for ease of wiring I would use something smaller.

14GA sounds about right for 1/2 hp motor wiring but 16GA would probably work OK on that short of a wire length.


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## mrbreezeet1

thanks Guys.


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## British Steel

atlas ten said:
			
		

> It came with a 250k pot in it that I will replace with a 100k to 150k pot.  The 250k will not give me the fine speef control over the full use of the pot rotation. I can only use the highest portion for control of speed. The smaller pot will give me finer adjustment using more dial rotation. Hope this makes sense.
> Jack



Jack, that sounds like it's an audio taper (logarithmic* or "A" taper) pot, where each (e.g.) 10 degrees of rotation gives the same multiplication of the signal - if you imagine a graph of rotation across the bottom, output upwards, it gives a J-shaped curve, a linear pot ("B" taper) will give a diagonal line / - so the audio taper will give next to no output for most of the rotation then jump to nearly full speed, makes it difficult to adjust it over the last few degrees as you've found...
That's how we hear things, in audio work each 3dB increase sounds the same to our ears but is in fact a doubling of power - our ears "compress" the range so we can hear changes in low levels and cope with a right bloody racket with the same instruments (our ears!). The human ear (unless old and deflicted like mine) has a dynamic range of about 140dB - that's a factor of 100,000,000,000,00 to one, from the "pin dropping" to close up to a jet engine spooling up or a 44 magnum at arm's length - impressive, not many things we've invented can manage that without fiddling and adjustment 

I wouldn't swap the pot to a lower value, unless it was something thrown in at random by the vendor and not the original, there's a reason they specify the type and value! But so swap to a linear pot if it says "250K A" on the back, you want "250K B"

Just my ha'pennorth,
Dave H. (the other one)

*actually it's technically an "antilog" or exponential function, but the ear's logarithmic so that's what it was labelled long ago.


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## British Steel

Tony, that Furnass switch will be fine **as long as you don't switch under power** - it's rated for about 10A contact current (and unlike the Chinese offerings it's probably built to withstand higher than on the sticker), the issue that makes 'em drop the rating for DC use is arcing under load - AC (obviously) interrupts the current 120 times a second so an arc will quench and not erode the contacts, DC being constant will maintain the arc until the contacts separate far enough that it can no longer jump the gap - more so with an inductive load like motor windings (this is how a car's ignition coil operates, after all, producing thousands of volts and needing a condenser/capacitor on the points to absorb the voltage surge).
Big Industrial lathes with DC motors (Monach 10EE and the like) have enormous contactors with arc-blowout magnets to divert the arc and lengthen it to help quench it, often high-temperature insulating blades that cut the arc, and quite often resistor-capacitor "snubber" networks that handle the induced voltage spikes from the motor windings. It's quite normal to de-rate relays, switches  and contactors by a factor of ten or more when using an AC-designed contacts to switch DC...

Just my ha'pennorth,
Dave H. (the other one)


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## mrbreezeet1

Thanks Dave. 
That sounds good. 
Even with the little DPDT switch from Radio shack, I have been turning off my power before switching direction. 
(just fooling around on the bench, I don't have the lathe hooked up yet.)
There is an "Inhibit" feature (2 terminals) on these KBIC-120's that you can hook a switch too, and short the inhibit terminals out before switching directions also. 
I am pretty sure I would be safe using the inhibit feature also. 
Too, I have a threaded spindle, so I would not want to hit reverse on the fly either. 
Thanks again
Tony.


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## caveBob

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Thanks Bob, Maybe I'll try one. I am not even going to bother returning this one to R.S for exchange.
> http://www.amazon.com/5k%2126-Shaft-Linear-Taper-Potentiometer/dp/B00C9NWQ8A
> Boy, that does look like it's made nice.
> Hopefully l can get a break on shipping if l buy more than one.



FWIW... I ordered two of those, just came in today... think they'll work great. Refreshingly enough, on the bottom is stamped "Made In Canada"... kudos to our cousins up north on putting out good stuff!


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## mrbreezeet1

l just got some NOS off e bay.
Tocos cosmos PR123 Part # RY-5976. They are 5=k ohms.
4 of them shipped for $12.50.
I   have read They are a good brand.
I don't know 1st hand.
But l know l had a few now bad from radio shack.


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## mrbreezeet1

Lead-screw drive up and running, (About Time) Video to follow.


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## atlas ten

British Steel said:


> Jack, that sounds like it's an audio taper (logarithmic* or "A" taper) pot, where each (e.g.) 10 degrees of rotation gives the same multiplication of the signal - if you imagine a graph of rotation across the bottom, output upwards, it gives a J-shaped curve, a linear pot ("B" taper) will give a diagonal line / - so the audio taper will give next to no output for most of the rotation then jump to nearly full speed, makes it difficult to adjust it over the last few degrees as you've found...
> That's how we hear things, in audio work each 3dB increase sounds the same to our ears but is in fact a doubling of power - our ears "compress" the range so we can hear changes in low levels and cope with a right bloody racket with the same instruments (our ears!). The human ear (unless old and deflicted like mine) has a dynamic range of about 140dB - that's a factor of 100,000,000,000,00 to one, from the "pin dropping" to close up to a jet engine spooling up or a 44 magnum at arm's length - impressive, not many things we've invented can manage that without fiddling and adjustment
> 
> I wouldn't swap the pot to a lower value, unless it was something thrown in at random by the vendor and not the original, there's a reason they specify the type and value! But so swap to a linear pot if it says "250K A" on the back, you want "250K B"
> 
> Just my ha'pennorth,
> Dave H. (the other one)
> 
> *actually it's technically an "antilog" or exponential function, but the ear's logarithmic so that's what it was labelled long ago.


I am sure  it is leanier. Has no sharp increasing speeds. It is hidden by the board and need to de solder all of it. I did check it with multi meter as to the resistance of starting operation. I will try about 150k ohm pot. I do need to replace the transistor first. Not in a rush or home to change them. I would have been better to  find a pwm for my lathe rather than this cheap fan speed control. Will still get use out of it.

Jack


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## mrbreezeet1

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Lead-screw drive up and running, (About Time) Video to follow.


OK guys, the long awaited leadscrew cobble job is complete.
All in all not to bad.
First impressions were, before I actually took a cut, "Man, this speed is WAYYYYYYYYY too slow, guess Im gonna need a different motor, or different pulley arrangement"
Well, I said, OK, lets not condemn the job before taking a few test cuts.
And it is fine. I found I can stall it with my hand on the pulley, (with a work glove on) so torque is not out the was-Zoo.
But maybe thats a good thing, sort of a weak link,  safety net type of deal.
here is a Video, It's a little slow, as in not a best seller, but you can get the idea.

Thanks to all,  for all the help, and I hope between my efforts, and the efforts and comments and help of all the guys in this thread, may inspire and help someone else in a similar project.
All I can say is, "Tony, why didn't you do this 5 years ago"?...........LOL


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## caveBob

mrbreezeet1 said:


> OK guys, the long awaited leadscrew cobble job is complete.
> All in all not to bad.
> First impressions were, before I actually took a cut, "Man, this speed is WAYYYYYYYYY too slow, guess Im gonna need a different motor, or different pulley arrangement"
> Well, I said, OK, lets not condemn the job before taking a few test cuts.
> And it is fine. I found I can stall it with my hand on the pulley, (with a work glove on) so torque is not out the was-Zoo.
> But maybe thats a good thing, sort of a weak link,  safety net type of deal.
> here is a Video, It's a little slow, as in not a best seller, but you can get the idea.
> 
> Thanks to all,  for all the help, and I hope between my efforts, and the efforts and comments and help of all the guys in this thread, may inspire and help someone else in a similar project.
> All I can say is, "Tony, why didn't you do this 5 years ago"?...........LOL



Congrats! Got er done... you can experiment/swap out pulleys later to get the range you want, but for now, you got it working! Enjoy the success of the project...


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## mrbreezeet1

Thanks Bob, I just saw this alert. I was putting motor bearings in a Delta 1HP motor tonight, for a belt sander I am probably going to end up selling, as I have a powermatic 6" belt sander now too.
That thing was a bear, wrestling out of the cabinet, esp with my bad Knee I got now. LOL
Looks like I need a new knee installed they said. 

Darn armature wouldn't fit under my arbor press, had to hammer on with a sleeve, I don't really like to do that.
They went on pretty easy though. I might have been better off getting a regular hyd. press, but this #2 greenard is Cool!
No, actually, it is working quite well as it is. I have it on the higher of the 2 speeds right now, and as reference, about 9:00 is a pretty fast cut, and about 6:00 is nice and slow. I have it with connectors so I can change the spade terminals from High to low.
I might try the low range again, to see if I can control it better, more crisp or anything.
Post office delivered My 4 pots I ordered from e bay today, and the punks stole them off the porch again.
Probably thought it was meds.
Told the post office to just start holding my packages again.
Did I ever tell you guys I hate this town?


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## caveBob

Porch thieves... argh, they're everywhere... ya, even for the little stuff it's usually best to require a signature or pickup at the local PO because the little rats will just take them if they have a chance. Had a printer (from Amazon Prime) delivered last year, it was set to email me upon delivery which it did. I was back at the house in 30 minutes to put the box away but the thief beat me to it and nabbed the printer. To Amazon's awesome credit, they actually had a new replacement printer delivered to my door in 2 days, no hassle, no extra charge, just a signature...

EDIT - just happened to think... send me a PM on where to send it, I ordered an extra POT when I got mine, don't really have a use for it atm so it's yours if ya want it...


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## mrbreezeet1

caveBob said:


> Porch thieves... argh, they're everywhere... ya, even for the little stuff it's usually best to require a signature or pickup at the local PO because the little rats will just take them if they have a chance. Had a printer (from Amazon Prime) delivered last year, it was set to email me upon delivery which it did. I was back at the house in 30 minutes to put the box away but the thief beat me to it and nabbed the printer. To Amazon's awesome credit, they actually had a new replacement printer delivered to my door in 2 days, no hassle, no extra charge, just a signature...
> 
> EDIT - just happened to think... send me a PM on where to send it, I ordered an extra POT when I got mine, don't really have a use for it atm so it's yours if ya want it...


This has been an ongoing problem in this neighborhood. I certain group moved into a house close by, and are suspect.  
Stole my leather jacket, and all my fishing gear last summer. 
Stole a HF mobile base off porch, a drill from e bay, and I never got my memory from new Egg the one time. 
There has been others, I just can't recall. Probably don't want too. 
E bay was good enough to refund my money that time. 
PM sent.


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