# I'm thinking about buying a welder- what type should I get?



## HMF

What type of welder should a beginning welder buy?

Should he buy new or used?

What should he get with it?

Thanks!

Nelson


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## rustybearing

Nelson, it really depends what you want to do with it. Each has it uses and limitations. A simple stick welder is good if you are outside where the wind blows (which would blow away the shielding gas) but doing real thin stuff is harder. A small 110v unit like a Miller 140 is good for the average hobby welder but again has its limitations and with a spool gun can even do aluminum. If you get a 110v unit make sure it is set up for gas just in case you might need it in the future. Some are just flux core. I might suggest you take a beginning welding course at the local adult ed class where you can use a variety of welders. Usually they are free to low cost. Nice because you can burn up their rod and use their gas.
 As far as new or used it's kind of a mixed bag. I've had some nice used units but more than often the used stuff has been abused. My motto is "If they don't take care of the outside they probably didn't take care of the inside". I just purchased the Miller 211 which is 100v and 220v for the heavier stuff, but I also have a miller ac/dc stick welder and a tig. 
 But I want to die with the most toys.


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## blame582

like Rusty said depends on what you will be welding. for thin stuff go mig or tig for the heavier stuff go with the arc or mig


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## Zigeuner

As mentioned, it all depends upon the type of work one wants to do. I started out with Oxy-Acetylene tanks and later on, a Lincoln 225 AC (Tombstone) welder. It was good practice. If I had to start nowadays, I'd still get the O-A tanks and torches but I'd start out with a 120V MIG, either a Lincoln, Miller or Hobart, e.g. 

The O-A tanks are great for cutting until you can afford a plasma cutter and the MIG will do most smaller fab. projects. With a CO2 tank and a jar of welding gel, you can do some awfully nice work. I found MIG very easy to get going with.


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## rustybearing

Oh yea! I forgot about the Oxy-Acetylene. You got to be able to melt stuff.


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## HMF

Assume rank newbie, wanting to weld together some mild steel to make a frame as a newbie project. First, would it be MIG or TIG or something else? Next, would it be cheap new, good used. What would you get to practice on that could afford to be ruined.


Nelson


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## blame582

Nelson id go with the mig welder! as far as new VS used question id go with a good condition used one


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## rustybearing

Yea a 110v mig with gas. The Miller 140 or similar is a good choice. The new autoset is over-rated. If you go gas use c-25. Much cleaner than co2. Miller has some good training stuff on their site.


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## rustybearing

On the 140 (110v) I had the autoset didn't work properly unless you had a dedicated 20 amp line. If the amperage dropped I got a lot of 'stubbing' with the wire feeding too fast. You probably don't get the amperage drop with the 220v.


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## HMF

Ok, I will check out the Miller 140's on their web site and see what all is involved. I just know what my wife will say. "Gas, you will blow up the house".  That's why women don't get ulcers, they're carriers. Just kidding of course. ;-)

Best.

Nelson


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## rustybearing

No, when I say gas I mean c25 which is an argon co2 gas or co2. Neither explodes it just shields the weld so you don't get contamination. Co2 has a lot of spatter, much less with c25.


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## Tony Wells

Here's some interesting reading on gas mixes. Below is a project I'm on right now using a couple of Miller 140's.

http://www.weldreality.com/MIG_welding_gases.htm


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## rustybearing

Yea, I read that a while back. My next gas I'm going to try the 90/10.


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## Highpower

*Re: I'm thinking about buying a welder- what type should I get?*



> author=rustybearing link=topic=1766.msg11263#msg11263 date=1303263951
> On the 140 (110v) I had the autoset didn't work properly unless you had a dedicated 20 amp line. If the amperage dropped I got a lot of 'stubbing' with the wire feeding too fast. You probably don't get the amperage drop with the 220v.


On my 140 autoset I've found that using a 20A circuit is pretty much a given anyway on the 115V machine unless you are welding light sheet metal. Another thing to remember is that the autoset perimeters will only work for .024" or .030" solid wire using a 75/25 gas mix. Changing the wire (ie. flux core) or type of gas (CO2) requires setting the controls manually.

I think the autoset feature is a great way for novice welders to be able to make decent beads right off the bat, and reduce the amount of frustration from worrying about settings. Once you get the hang of setting the adjustments manually, the autoset feature will rarely be used most likely.


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## GK1918

*Re: I'm thinking about buying a welder- what type should I get?*

Ill go with Rusty, my order of things was first O/A set medium M tanks thats a do all weld cut
braze bend forge then in 1960 my father bought a AO Smith 225 amp with batt charger attachment
Ok but limited to its power cord, then 10yrs ago I came upon a 225amp ac dc gas powerd Miller
welder (its in my tool truck $400) since this the AO Smith never used again, what a difference DC
makes. Then 5yrs ago my son bought A Lincoln mig w/gas 110vt. auto helmelt all under $600.
Next my kid on fire dept somtimes borrows their plasma cutter another plug & play,so thats
next on the list. they are nice. So here the most used is- A/Ox torch & chop saw. Ive gas welded
one inch stuff as well as exhaust pipes and such. so thats my first, 2nd the mig. sam


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## ctfromkc

Nelson ,if you are looking for a 110v unit watch craigslist i see those on there all the time brand new in the box mostly lincolns ,i think these guys go to home depot or lowes and buy one and get it home either do one project or they get it for a gift and realize they can't weld and they need cash so it goes on craiglist if you show up with cash in fist and find a guy who needs the money you can get a sweet deal . i also see 220v millers all models on there also "not usually new ones" but if you know what you want do your home work on the models you want and definitely weld with it before you buy . it all comes down to knowing what your buying new or used .good luck! chris


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## HMF

Good advice- I will keep my eyes open. I am thinking first before I buy, I should take a welding course so I know what to look for.

Best,

Nelson


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## aametalmaster

MIG 220V. Get the best first and save some headaches down the road. My choice first Miller http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/product.php?model=M00245
then 2nd Hobart like the Handler 187 http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/handler187/ 
then 3rd would be a 220v Lincoln like what Home Depot has. 
Sorry i am Pro Miller after all i do work for them plus i have had Millers for the last 30+ years. The Miller 211 is 120v-220v so it would do well in a home shop. Then get a gas bottle 75/25 is best. I don't know what dealers you have in your city but i still can drive over and show you how to use it.  ...Bob


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## transplant_wi

I ended-up getting the MillerMatic 211, which I set-up for gas-shielded. Love it - the unit will run on 220 or 110 (you just swap the plug end). I am an utter noob but it made my welds look pretty good. No classes locally that I could find, but a kind neighbor with some experience visited one evening and gave my son and me a tutorial. My son is 11 and did great too. My impression is that the AutoSet feature worked well, but the welder has a door chart too.

On the minus side, I can see that OA is more versatile, but the MIG met my immediate needs and is quicker to learn.

I bought the larger unit because I have some farm machinery work to do and wanted the option to weld heavier metal. I bought the unit online, free shipping, at least $200 less than the local supply house. PM me for specifics if you want. I purchased my own 120 cu ft Ar/CO2 tank, rather than renting, after a back-of the envelope ROI calculation (I am a data nerd by trade, can't help myself!) :nerd:

Finally, the MM211 was made in Appleton, WI.

Hope that helps!


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## Hawkeye

*Re: I'm thinking about buying a welder- what type should I get?*

I'm a self-taught welder, so my advise is, as is often said, worth every penny you have paid for it. I started with a small wire-feed (almost a MIG), but moved up to a Hobart 140 before too long. I would recommend spending the extra to get something at least that good. The Miller 140 would be similar.

While the Hobart is set up for gas, I leave it loaded with flux-core. I can clamp up a bracket, set the welder dials, turn on the exhaust fan and welder, burn some wire and shut everything down in a matter of minutes. There is a bit more spatter than with solid wire and gas, but cleanup doesn't take that long and I like not having to adjust and drain the gas system for a quick weld.


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## Tony Wells

Keep your eyes open for an old Miller SP35. It's a MIG, with gas. They are old, but you can't kill them. That is, if you have the space. They aren't the cure little compact inverter type welders they sell now, but an older heavy transformer style.


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## brucer

i would get a dual voltage machine 110v/220v mig, that way you will be more versatile and wont have to purchase a 220v machine later when you need to weld stuff thicker than 1/8"...

 i would look at a hobart 210mvp or lincoln 180c dual (lincolns new dual voltage machine).... both are spoolgun ready, both would be very versatile machines...

 if you can run a 220v machine i would go 220v they are just better machines.... a good 220v only machine would be a hobart handler 187 and they are selling for under $600


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## November X-ray

I think it is important for a person to first ask themselves what their immediate and potential welding needs will be, however having said that let's talk a little about the term "welding". First off there is SMAW (shielded metal ARC welding), FCAW (flux core ARC welding), GMAW (gas metal ARC welding), GTAW (gas tungsten ARC welding), SAW (submerged ARC welding) and a few others but these cover most of the "electric" processes a home shop may use. Please notice the common denominator in these are the term "ARC". Basically all the ARC capable machines are power sources and can be used for many of the aforementioned processes. Of course there are other types of welding processes such as oxy/fuel that a home shop may utilize. Yes there are numerous other types out there that are used in industrial applications such as lasers, friction welding, etc. etc. but these are not likely to be found in a home shop environment.

Having said all of this I must say I have a heavy investment in welding equipment and I made my living for 25 plus years doing this and my father is a 90 year old retired weld engineer. Some other things to consider would be availability of consumables, meaning why buy a machine at a thought bargain if you have to jump thru hoops to get supplies/parts/etc?

Lincoln, Miller, Hobart and ESAB all make good machines and I would highly recommend a person get at least a 220 volt single phase unit over a 110 volt unit if at all possible. Most home shops can make good use of a wire feed (mig) machine whether you run it as a flux core (gasless) or GMAW (with shielding gas). In addition, as funds allow, I would consider a small CO (customer owned) size set of oxygen and acetylene bottles with a good victor, smith or harris model torch with heads for both cutting and welding (actually this is probably the cheapest welding rig to get upfront with the most useful benefit). Of course once you get an "ARC" type machine you will learn there are available attachments that allow you to utilize it to it's maximum capability!

Currently I have a Lincoln SA-250, a Lincoln SA-200, a Lincoln Ranger 10,000, a Lincoln Squarewave 175, a Miller "Cracker Box", and a Hobart Handler 180 as well as numerous accessories like carbon arc gouging and torch, dry rig tig torches, an LN-22 wire feeder as well as numerous oxy/acetylene torches, pipe beveling machines and plasma cutter. What I lack is a suitable place to use as a permanent shop, but one of these days if I don't die first I might either get that or get rid of everything first!

Good luck on your welder search!


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## Starlight Tools

*Re: I'm thinking about buying a welder- what type should I get?*

November X-Ray

I feel your pain. 

The Hypertherm 1000 Plasma cutter hides behind the milling machine. 

The Miller Synchowave 200 Tig Welder with Argon shielding gas floats around, but is often stored in another room.

The Miller XMT 350 CC/CV with Blueshield 8 Sheilding gas gets used most of the time and sits close to the main shop door so it can be used outside. I actually had it fired up the other day and had the fan kick in, first time I had heard it, but was welding up a dump truck tailgate that had been gently touched by a backhoe, as in stuck the tooth of the bucket right through the tailgate. Reinforced it with 1/4" thick plate, will be a lot harder to penetrate now. 

The Oxy-Acet hides in behind the T&C Grinder and sits such that I can pull out the hoses and get almost anywhere I need to go in the shop or outside. I find the O-A one of my favourite welding processes and will often do sheet metal work with it. It is a pain to weld heavy metal with though. 

Now setting up, laying out and fitting the parts together, well that is another thing all together. I have shared pictures of my shop in the gallery section. There isn't enough room to turn around in there most days, let alone take on a big welding job. I must say the new welding bench is making things much easier in that department and it can sit outside under the deck, where my GF prefers that i to do my welding. 

As for Nelson's question. I am a firm believer in getting the best quality I can within the price range I can afford. I will go without before buying crap. 

A small Buzz Box, I had a Miller 225 AC welder when I first got out of welding classes, will do not bad, but you have to be careful which rod you use, and you have to store them in such a way that they do not get contaminated. It is the moisture content in the flux that is a killer. Proper storage of the rods is in an oven with them baking at low heat all the time. If you can get a DC, then even better as they are easier to weld with. These machines are OK, but not as in vogue anymore.

MIG, wire feed, this is probably the best way to go. When I learned to weld, the penetration was not as good, and they were not as user friendly as they are today. Get a machine that is big enough to handle what you are planning on doing. If only autobody work, then maybe a 110V unit but I would be hard pressed to settle for much less than a Millermatic 250. The first time you try to weld 1/2" plate, you will realize why the extra juice is required. MY XMT handled the 1" plate with no problems at all when I was working on the table. Metal prep has to be good and clean, but upside is not having to chip off the slag after each weld.

TIG, this is used primarily for welding Stainless Steel, Aluminium and other exotic metals. My tig does not get used often, but when it does, I am glad I have it.

Both my XMT 350 and the Synchrowave 200 can be used for SMAW, welding with rods and I have a few hundred feet of heavy guage leads for them, and a few hundred foot power extension for the welders so I can wheel them out closer to where I need them. Bear in mind that the MIG whip is fairly short so limits how far you can be away from the welding machine.

Plasma, great device, cuts just about anything, I am told even a finger if you stick it where it does not belong. Mine gets used but not that often. I try to use other methods of cutting, that require less grinding, like the porta band, Cold Cut saw etc. 

O-A track burner, is in hiding along with the track for it. Have not had room to set it up for awhile, but there are times when it is the best thing since sliced bread. Even have the Hypertherm torch for it as well, just in case.

I would highly recommend you take a night school course in welding if you are serious about learning this art form. I am thinking about going back and taking a refresher course this year, mostly to improve my TIG, which doesn't get used enough.

Walter


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## Zigeuner

I took a one year (2 semester) class at the local community college in the early 190's, They covered the entire spectrum of welding from gas to TIG with stick, MIG and lots of classroom discussions. We did practice coupons and got graded on them. They also had a class on certified welding but I don't need that. 

I had been gas welding, cutting and stock welding for many years before I took the class so the instructor let me concentrate on TIG. I learned a lot about technique and also what machine would be good for a hobbiest. 

Around 1992 I bought a 250 Lincoln Idealarc TIG/Stick machine. It was an excellent machine. It was a straight sine wave on AC for aluminum. I used it for about 15 years and then traded it in on a Miller Syncrowave 200 that had only 8 hours on the meter. I already had a water circulator for the liquid cooled torch from the Lincoln so I hooked that up. I also have a Bernard cooler that I restored and I use that part of the time just for fun. 

The Miller Syncrowave has all that a Hobby person could want. It will do 1/4" stock in aluminum, stainless or mild steel and that's just about all you might ever need. The stick function is excellent and has a nice anti-sticking feature called DIG which gives a dual power function with a base power and a set high power. It acutally works! It's especially nice for 7018 low hydrogen rod which is notorious for sticking. 

I also have a 175 Lincoln SP Plus MIG machine that has variable voltage and wire speed. It's excellent for fabrication. I prefer the 220 volt welders since I never take my machines away from the shiop. If you want to go portable, you would probably want an inverter. They have more features, more portability, more voltages and cost more money! LOL. I like to keep things simiple. 

Welding is a lot of fun and I can't even imagine how much money I've saved doing my own for all these years. 

Miller SW 200 with coolers. 



Water circulator in action.


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## brucer

Thermal Arc's new Fabricator 181i mig/tig/stick would be a very versatile 220v machine...


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## aametalmaster

*Re: I'm thinking about buying a welder- what type should I get?*

My baby for the last 11 years. I have the spool gun on it in this pic thats why no gun is hooked up. It welds almost anything i need done. Except for the real thick over 3/4" stuff i use my Miller stick machine...Bob


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## Milton Shaw

Get the Miller Student Kit it's $25. and is a bargain its got a lot of books and some weld calculators and gives a good description of all types of welding, stick to tig and beyond. Best $25 you will spend on welding.


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## geotek

Unless you have a specific use in mind, my advice would be to buy a nice oxyacetylene rig. You can use it to weld, cut, braze, silver solder, and heat things up to loosen nuts or bend metal. It is by far the most versatile welder you can buy. And, eventually you'll need to have one anyway.
Learn to gas weld, then if you switch to TIG, it will be a piece of cake.
I would avoid import rigs, the torches are not too bad but the regulators are awful. My personal favorite is Victor. It's hard to go wrong with a Victor.


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## Joe Romas

*Re: I'm thinking about buying a welder- what type should I get?*

43 years ago I bought a Lincoln "Tumbstone" 225 amp stick, AC only,  welder for $99 and got the optional wheel kit.  30 some years ago I expanded with a O/A setup when Sears had their welding and cutting outfit (minus tanks) for $88 on sale in the catalog. Remember them? 25 years ago I got a 120 volt MIG and it was expensive at the time and I never really "got into it". Two years ago I bought a Lincoln Weld N Pack 175HP 240 volt and got a tank of Argon/Co2. It's fantastic and I've gone through a lot of wire making stands for my various tools the last being one with wheels for the MIG and tank making it portable. I find them all handy for different things. I'm now looking for a 3 in 1 tool, Plasma cutter, MMA (arc) and TIG unit on e-bay. There are a lot of them dubed "520" in all colors and names all from China. Quite a few of them sell for around $400 including shipping but so far I've always been out bidded.
Here's one for example.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150681101477?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

If I were starting today and had 240v available it would be a toss up between a MIG and a three in one that will stick weld and cut. Later when you have the coin you can add a tank and have tig. You won't be able to heat for bending and so forth but you'll have cutting and weldng.

Be aware of the reputation of the seller! Some are not so good.

If I had a 3 in 1 I would think about giving up my O/A and trade the tanks for a argon one.

Joe


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## DMS

*Re: I'm thinking about buying a welder- what type should I get?*

I just got a Millermatic 211. I'm very happy with it. 110/220, and will do aluminum with an attachment. I bounced around looking at the Hobart Trek, and the Miller Passport Plus as well. 

I would say, if you are just starting out, and you want to weld steel, go with MIG or FCAW (flux core arc welding). Most smaller mig machines will do flux core as well. With flux core you don't need to mess with gas bottles, but you have to do it outside because it makes a heck of a mess (smoke, slag, other nastiness). It is supposed to be better at welding rusty/dirty metal than mig.

Remember that if you get a mig welder, you will need gas tanks, either Ar/Co2 75/25 or Co2 for steel, or straight argon for aluminum/stainless.

TIG equipment tends to be more expensive, and the process is slower, but you can do just about anything with it; I vacillated between a small TIG machine and a MIG machine for a while.

If you have never tried welding before, a friend with a welder, or class at the local college might be useful, if nothing else then for safety.

As far as buying, I would personally stay away from the $99 dollar specials unless you are really unsure of whether you are going to like it. You may be better off watching out on Craigslist; in my area I see 3 or 4 110v wire welders a week on there (usually lincolns, probably because you can buy them at the big box stores).

I do have to say, it is very nice to have welding capabilities. Right now I am building a set of ring rollers for another project. I needed a 1/2" square hole in the middle of a 1.5" diameter cylinder 4 inches long. I was able to take some 1/2x1.5" CRS plate, weld it into a box, chuck it in the lathe, and turn it round. Worked perfectly and you can't even tell it didn't start as a solid piece.

On last thing and I'll stop rambling. There is a guy posting on youtube as "weldingtipsandtricks". He has a lot of great videos on technique, product reviews, etc. I recommend them. Miller and Lincoln also have a bunch of training and product videos.

-Matt


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