# Might be moving  Will need a shop



## mickri (Oct 10, 2021)

My kids want me closer to my daughter and they have located a house that I can afford that is only 45 minutes away instead of 4 hours.  Don't know if it will happen or not.  My current house has to sell to buy the new place.  The new place only has a one car garage and the HOA limits shops, sheds, etc in the backyard to 300 sq ft.  12 foot max height limit.  House only has 100 amp service.  The shop/shed will be 10'x30' and will have solar panels on the roof. The electrical run from the current panel will be around 90'.  The house needs around $30,000 worth of work.  That has to come first before the shop/shed.  One nice thing is that the garage has a door on both ends providing access to the backyard and being on a corner there is access from the backyard to the side street.

Trying to figure out how much electricity I might need.  I never used more than one piece of equipment at any given time.  I think the heaviest electrical draw will be 20 amps for my little HF welder plus some lights and a mini split for heat and AC.  I am thinking a 50 amp sub panel would be adequate.  I have around 400' of 10 gauge wire which I am sure is too small.  But how big do I really need.  Copper wire is expensive.  I am on a very limited budget.


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## Aukai (Oct 11, 2021)

Garage door must be closed, no cars in the driveway, grass must be regulation length, no noise before 7 am, or after 6 pm. Should I go on


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## rabler (Oct 11, 2021)

I’m not an electrician, but I believe you’ll need 6 gauge wire for 50amp.  You may be able to go to 60amp on that same wire so effectively no cost difference.  Even though your main is only 100a,  I would price out doing it as a 100a subpanel using 2/0 aluminum too, that way if the main does get upgraded you don’t need to rewire to pull more power into the shop.  Might not be much difference in price.


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## C-Bag (Oct 11, 2021)

Aukai said:


> Garage door must be closed, no cars in the driveway, grass must be regulation length, no noise before 7 am, or after 6 pm. Should I go on


^ This! I loved the idea of a PUD but the HOA was a total buzz kill. I had to hide ANYTHING I did and I swear it seemed like everybody who lived there hated anybody who actually made anything. And I’m respectful, not before 8am and not after 5pm. I hated that feeling, never more. They went after the neighbor for putting a potted plant by the front gate! And want to paint something? Fuhgetaboutit.


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## Janderso (Oct 11, 2021)

My wife and I are looking for a home and shop in our area.
This came up this morning.
No shop but it has room.
Nice place!!

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/...4c1-8224-dcdd424db37b~X1-ZUttr7ptjel1jd_8p8t0


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## 7milesup (Oct 11, 2021)

Janderso said:


> My wife and I are looking for a home and shop in our area.
> This came up this morning.
> No shop but it has room.
> Nice place!!
> ...


That is really pretty Jeff.  One acre gives you enough room to build a shop maybe.  I like the pond swimming pool and water features.


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## Janderso (Oct 11, 2021)

Aukai said:


> Garage door must be closed, no cars in the driveway, grass must be regulation length, no noise before 7 am, or after 6 pm. Should I go on


I hate CC&r's.
My wife and I will never live in a place that has rules.


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## Steve-F (Oct 11, 2021)

^^^^^^^^^

Amen to that !!!


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## rabler (Oct 11, 2021)

Janderso said:


> I hate CC&r's.
> My wife and I will never live in a place that has rules.


Happily, I don't even need a building permit/inspection for the new shop. Only for septic tanks.  I like this county.


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## Nogoingback (Oct 11, 2021)

Moving closer to your kids is a great idea, but maybe you should do a little more looking for a house.  Just sayin'.


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## C-Bag (Oct 11, 2021)

Janderso said:


> My wife and I are looking for a home and shop in our area.
> This came up this morning.
> No shop but it has room.
> Nice place!!
> ...


Ok, now it’s my turn to ask “how does it feel” to be rich? 

My wife had a week off (always dangerous monetarily) and tried to get some prices on just doing landscaping and to do everything and not fancy would run way over $50k, closer to 100k.

 When I pointed out she would have to tack that on the mortgage and work a couple more years it sunk in. 

I‘m proud for you guys who can afford this, and build a shop, but I ain’t one. I feel lucky to have my packed 2 car garage of funky stuff that I’m not paying on. And close to having our funky house paid off. Oh and no HOA and neighbors who make stuff too!


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## Janderso (Oct 11, 2021)

rabler said:


> Happily, I don't even need a building permit/inspection for the new shop. Only for septic tanks.  I like this county.


Whoa,
In some parts of this country you need a permit to change a toilet, to build a fence, to trim a tree.
You live in a great county!


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## Janderso (Oct 11, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> Ok, now it’s my turn to ask “how does it feel” to be rich?
> 
> My wife had a week off (always dangerous monetarily) and tried to get some prices on just doing landscaping and to do everything and not fancy would run way over $50k, closer to 100k.
> 
> ...


We have to be very careful.
I think many of us agree, a housing market adjustment is looming.
The property I highlighted is on the top end of our budget.
Rich? No, we aren't rich, we have just been fortunate and have worked hard and saved/invested.


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## Papa Charlie (Oct 11, 2021)

Janderso said:


> We have to be very careful.
> I think many of us agree, a housing market adjustment is looming.
> The property I highlighted is on the top end of our budget.
> Rich? No, we aren't rich, we have just been fortunate and have worked hard and saved/invested.


I think you are right about the market too. I think there is some type of adjustment coming but not sure what that will be. I doubt anything like 2008 resulted in, but who knows. We have been holding off on looking for our retirement home because of the uncertainty of everything going on, both market and political. Those two items make it unnerving to think about making huge commitments that we will be living with for the rest of our lives without a job. Scares the heck out of me.


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## C-Bag (Oct 11, 2021)

Papa Charlie said:


> We have been holding off on looking for our retirement home because of the uncertainty of everything going on, both market and political. Those two items make it unnerving to think about making huge commitments that we will be living with for the rest of our lives without a job. Scares the heck out of me.


Absolutely. All the same signs of ‘07.

This thread is very timely as the guy I mentioned as having my dream shop Tom Lipton/Oxtools is moving. I just assumed he owned the warehouse/apartment they were in but I guess not. The landlord wanted a 40% increase with only a yearly lease, no more month to month. So he found a place 100mi N. with a big shop. He’s covering it on his YouTube channel calling The Epic Egress. Talk about daunting and he’s not moved his shop yet!


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## mickri (Oct 11, 2021)

We have been looking for several years.  Not much comes on the market that I can afford and I have to sell my place to buy.  Very few sellers will take a contingent offer in today's seller's market.  Most homes have multiple offers and often sell for 10% to 20% over list price.  I made an offer on one place.  There were at least 4 offers on the property and the seller's counter was "What is the highest price that you will pay."  I said no thanks.  

If I decide I don't like the HOA I will sell and find another place.  One friend suggested to my mom awhile back that I could always rent a place.  Mom's response was I would rather live in a tent on my own land then rent.

Back to the question about wire size.  I doubt that I will ever need more power in the future.  I already have all of the power tools that I will ever need and like I said in my original post I only use one piece of equipment at a time.  The most that will ever be running would be the mini split, lights and one power tool.  I'll look at sub panels the next time I go to Lowes or Home Depot.  I might have to upgrade the main panel to 200 amps.  The house is all electric.

One thing that I have thought of is replacing the 100 amp breaker on the main panel with a 200 amp breaker.  Seems like the only difference between 100 amp panels and 200 amp panels is you get more slots for breakers on the 200 amp panel and the size of the wires coming into the property might be smaller on a 100 amp panel.  I will check it out.


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## ddickey (Oct 11, 2021)

For a 100 amp subpanel 90' run you'd need 1/0 aluminum but that is direct burial.


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## Larry$ (Oct 11, 2021)

I live in a HOA subdivision. They don't get totally carried away but the rules won't let me build the garage/shop I want. It would be really nice to just walk out the back door, flip on the lights and make a mess. I would never buy again in a HOA location. The city is bad enough.


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## Janderso (Oct 13, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> Absolutely. All the same signs of ‘07.
> 
> This thread is very timely as the guy I mentioned as having my dream shop Tom Lipton/Oxtools is moving. I just assumed he owned the warehouse/apartment they were in but I guess not. The landlord wanted a 40% increase with only a yearly lease, no more month to month. So he found a place 100mi N. with a big shop. He’s covering it on his YouTube channel calling The Epic Egress. Talk about daunting and he’s not moved his shop yet!


I have been following his egress episodes.
You can tell he is very happy with his new shop-home and property.
He is going to have a bit of a commute assuming he is still working.


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## woodchucker (Oct 13, 2021)

Janderso said:


> I hate CC&r's.
> My wife and I will never live in a place that has rules.


My wife and I went to a property 25 years ago to look, and it had a no pets policy. I asked how about fish... no fish, no hamsters, no birds, dogs, cats.. nothing.

They were an interesting group of people..
And of course, no car washing, working on your vehicle. No putting up your own plants outside..
one has to wonder what people see in these HOAs. Sounds like you are asking for a problem going to one.


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## rabler (Oct 13, 2021)

Janderso said:


> We have to be very careful.
> I think many of us agree, a housing market adjustment is looming.
> The property I highlighted is on the top end of our budget.
> Rich? No, we aren't rich, we have just been fortunate and have worked hard and saved/invested.


While housing starts are way up, the birthrate points to a decline in population, which would seem to point to an eventual glut of houses.


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## C-Bag (Oct 13, 2021)

Janderso said:


> I have been following his egress episodes.
> You can tell he is very happy with his new shop-home and property.
> He is going to have a bit of a commute assuming he is still working.


Having moved 27x> I only see the daunting logistics. And moving his shop would be 100x’s harder.

he doesn’t say if he’s still renting or buying, but it sounds like he’s very happy with the whole thing. Nice that the shop is already there. And the big drive through center is what I would love to have. He is going to be dealing with a lot of dust and heat. Something and if renting I don’t think I’d want to do improvements like insulation etc. 

yeah he’s not said if he’s still working for the lab or not. That commute would kill me.


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## C-Bag (Oct 13, 2021)

rabler said:


> which would seem to point to an eventual glut of houses.


You would think so, but unlike normal supply and demand the prices do NOT at all reflect it. Just like ‘07 financial forces are at work which are harvesting those who thought this boom was going to go on forever and took out seconds. Their houses are now LLC’s rentals for more than the cost of a normal mortgage. With leases like what they tried to do to Tom Lipton where you pay a crazy lease, YOU ARE LIABLE FOR ALL UPKEEP! And can be fined like if you don’t mow the lawn.


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## Janderso (Oct 13, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> I only see the daunting logistics. And moving his shop would be 100x’s harder.


He said they moved his wife's art studio the previous week.
Boxing up, planning and moving all of Tom's heavy equipment is going to be an epic adventure.
Not to worry, Chuck is helping.
Tom said his geriatric moving crew will give him a helping hand.


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## C-Bag (Oct 13, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Not to worry, Chuck is helping.


LOL, did you catch the part where Tom said a friend let him take a nap? I resemble that remark!

We moved from Visalia to Los Osos 12yrs ago and I'm hoping it is the very last time I have to do that. And I didn't even have my dinky lathe or my mill/drill or any of the truly heavy metal I've collected since we came here. 

The move seems to be a populace who just lives in there little ticky tacky houses...and does what? There's no garage, no place to work and the HOA's are vehemently against and doing or making. I'm not a fan of a bunch of bubba's standing around working on derelict car's at all hours of the night or day or looking at junk in the neighbor's yard. But there seems no middle ground. When we moved here we looked at mobile home parks because back then they were kinda nice and affordable. But no place to work and too many busy bodies in other people's biz. Now they are almost at much as a house and you don't even own the land it's on, if you can call the postage stamp, stacked like chordwood a lot!


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## Nogoingback (Oct 13, 2021)

When we were looking at houses the last time, we had a look in particularly nice looking neighborhood.
Almost too nice: there was not one blade of grass out of place.  When we got home, I looked up their HOA
which had a website that someone obviously spent a lot of time on.  Very informative and open about how 
they worked, but what stood out was a list of actual infractions and the penalties imposed.  It was a very long list.
Needless to say, we passed on that place.


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## mickri (Oct 13, 2021)

Did another inspection of the place yesterday.  The electrical in the house is going to be interesting to sort out to say the least.  I will be removing a wall A/C unit and a vintage electric wall heater.  I am hoping that gives me enough to put in a mini split heater/AC.  In the laundry there is a sub panel that feeds the electric dryer outlet and a defunct solar hot water system.  I have visions that this sub panel takes power from the range/oven which is on the other side of the wall.  I hope I am wrong about this.  Lots of double pole breakers in the main electrical panel but very few were marked.  There was a solar electrical system.  The panels and the inverter have been removed but the shut off to the main panel is still in place.  I wonder if I can just install replacement panels without going through the whole permitting process.  Going to give that a try and ask for forgiveness if I am wrong.

Getting back to my shed/shop.  I am planning on two 20 amp circuits for power tools.  Remember I only use one tool at a time.  A 220 circuit just in case I should ever get a 220 welder and a 15 amp light circuit.  I will put in a 100 amp rated subpanel.

The new place is in Heritage Ranch at Lake Nacimento.  There appears to be different enforcement policies in different areas of the development.  The area that this house is in appears to be very lax on enforcing the CC&R's.  People had stuff everywhere.  Boats, jet skis, RV's, stacks of firewood, etc littered some of the front yards.  I am not too worried about running afoul of the HOA based on what I have seen.


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## C-Bag (Oct 13, 2021)

mickri said:


> The new place is in Heritage Ranch at Lake Nacimento.


There ya go. I’ve seen some really decent deals there. It’s an interesting area that was going to be a rec area before the drought. Lake is not much of a lake anymore.

I'm a little surprised there is much of anything as far as HOA. All the prices there dropped drastically after 08 then got spotty with the drought. I would think that would be a buyers mkt. Do you think you could get away with a couple of containers for a shop? I knew some guys in Bear valley who got away with it because they are not permanent structures.

Its kinda remote for me as I don’t like to be too far from a good hardware store or grocery. But I think you’re used to it where you live and know how to plan your logistics.

Good luck, hope it works out.


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## mickri (Oct 13, 2021)

There is a small shopping center with a market, gas station and several restaurants at Heritage Ranch.  I think that there is also a medical office that is maned several days a week by a nurse practioner.  Closest hardware store is in Paso Robles.  There is also a school for grades K to 8th.

The HOA is fairly active.  One of their biggest issues is people who have a rental property in Heritage Ranch but don't live there using the extensive common areas.  The most convoluted section of the CC&Rs deals with non resident property owners.  In a nut shell if you don't live in Heritage Ranch you don't have the right to use the common areas.  You give that right to your tenants.

Containers aren't inexpensive these days.  There is a big demand for containers and the prices have increased dramatically over the last several years.  One of my daughter and son in law's friends is in the container business.  To make them really usable they need to be finished off inside.  You basically have to build a structure inside the container.  Containers aren't allowed to my knowledge in Heritage Ranch


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## Papa Charlie (Oct 13, 2021)

mickri said:


> Did another inspection of the place yesterday.  The electrical in the house is going to be interesting to sort out to say the least.  I will be removing a wall A/C unit and a vintage electric wall heater.  I am hoping that gives me enough to put in a mini split heater/AC.  In the laundry there is a sub panel that feeds the electric dryer outlet and a defunct solar hot water system.  I have visions that this sub panel takes power from the range/oven which is on the other side of the wall.  I hope I am wrong about this.  Lots of double pole breakers in the main electrical panel but very few were marked.  There was a solar electrical system.  The panels and the inverter have been removed but the shut off to the main panel is still in place.  I wonder if I can just install replacement panels without going through the whole permitting process.  Going to give that a try and ask for forgiveness if I am wrong.
> 
> Getting back to my shed/shop.  I am planning on two 20 amp circuits for power tools.  Remember I only use one tool at a time.  A 220 circuit just in case I should ever get a 220 welder and a 15 amp light circuit.  I will put in a 100 amp rated subpanel.
> 
> The new place is in Heritage Ranch at Lake Nacimento.  There appears to be different enforcement policies in different areas of the development.  The area that this house is in appears to be very lax on enforcing the CC&R's.  People had stuff everywhere.  Boats, jet skis, RV's, stacks of firewood, etc littered some of the front yards.  I am not too worried about running afoul of the HOA based on what I have seen.


Don't forget to account for the possibility of running a compressor while using other tools. They draw a significant amount of power.


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## mickri (Oct 13, 2021)

My compressor is a small pancake model that makes so much noise I can't stand to listen to it.  I only turn it on when I need to use it


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## mickri (Oct 16, 2021)

The two biggest mess makers in my current garage/shop are the radial arm saw and the chop saw.  They throw saw dust everywhere.  And they need the most room to handle long boards.  Trying to fit them in a 10x30 shop was not working out.  So I divided the shop into 3 sections.  Two 10x12 sheds with a 6' breezeway between them.  Several benefits to this layout.  I don't need permits for the 10x12 sheds and the radial arm saw and chop saw will go in the breezeway between the two sheds.  All the saw dust and associated mess will be outside.  Except for the lathe everything I have is on wheels.  Even the mill/drill and work bench are on wheels.  One shed will be devoted to metal working and the other for everything else. 

There will be solar panels over both sheds and the breezeway between the sheds.

 This is the latest design for the shop.



Automotive stuff will be in the one car garage that is attached to the house.


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## C-Bag (Oct 16, 2021)

This a smaller scale and longwise arrangement I’ve contemplated. Except I was thinking two 20’ containers parallel to each other with like 15’ between them with an awning over the whole thing.

I there a constraint on the space between the sheds? I would think 6’ wide for the breezeway be way too narrow to work. From living in an RV for several years has made hate the feeling of living and working in a hallway.


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## mickri (Oct 16, 2021)

This will be around 10' from the back end of the lot which is only 39' wide.  Need to have 5' on each side of the sheds.


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## C-Bag (Oct 16, 2021)

You mention the expense of containers being more than sheds, and the price of them has gone up. But how much do you plan for the 12x10’s being? Cement floor? Build yourself or kits?


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## mickri (Dec 19, 2021)

I am sorta in my new place.  Moving last week in the rain was not fun.  Most of my stuff went in a POD that will get delivered when I am ready for it.  Only kept out what wouldn't fit in the POD and what I needed to get the new place in shape. Even with that it took 5 trips to the old house to move.  Long days.  Drive 3 1/2 hours.  Load up until my truck and trailer were full and drive 3/12 hours back to the new place.  Unload.

On top of the move my computer crashed.  Could not start the reset process until Friday after I got internet installed.  Lucky that I store all of my personal files on a memory stick.  Lost everything on the hard drive.  That is probably a good thing because it got rid of hundreds of bookmarks that I never use and cleaned up unneeded junk on the hard drive.

The first shed if you can call it that is an extension to the garage.  There is an existing wood deck that extends 10' back from the garage.  It is well made and solid.  I will add walls and a roof.  This will mostly be used for storage.  The radial arm saw along with the bench grinder and belt sander will go into the extension.  To keep the dirty stuff as I call it away from the lathe and mill/drill. There are well made work benches that line one wall of the garage.  The lathe will go on one of the work benches.  My lathe stand without the risers for the legs fits under the work bench.

It will come together.  Have to get the house redone first before much work can get done in the garage/shop.


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## woodchucker (Dec 19, 2021)

mickri said:


> I am sorta in my new place.  Moving last week in the rain was not fun.  Most of my stuff went in a POD that will get delivered when I am ready for it.  Only kept out what wouldn't fit in the POD and what I needed to get the new place in shape. Even with that it took 5 trips to the old house to move.  Long days.  Drive 3 1/2 hours.  Load up until my truck and trailer were full and drive 3/12 hours back to the new place.  Unload.
> 
> On top of the move my computer crashed.  Could not start the reset process until Friday after I got internet installed.  Lucky that I store all of my personal files on a memory stick.  Lost everything on the hard drive.  That is probably a good thing because it got rid of hundreds of bookmarks that I never use and cleaned up unneeded junk on the hard drive.
> 
> ...


Those pods, do they have tie down rings in the bottom? If I needed to move could I put all my equipment in a pod and have it secured for transporting?


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## mickri (Dec 19, 2021)

I got a 8' x 16' POD.   There are also 8'x12' and 7'x8' PODS. There are tie downs at the front and the back and then every 4' along the walls.  One about 1' up from the floor.  One in the middle of the wall.  And one about 1' down from the top.  So lots of places to tie things down.  Pods do have a weight limit.  Around 4500 lbs as I recall.  If you are doing a local move I believe that the POD can be picked up and delivered to your new place the same day.  If non local then the POD has to go to a storage yard.  Then trucked to a storage yard close to the new place.  And finally brought out to your new place.  This process takes a minimum of 5 days depending on the distance.

Whether you could move all of your equipment in one POD would depend on the weight.  You could definitely secure your equipment.  In fact POD's want you to create walls every 4' or so to keep stuff from shifting during transport.  Most people use mattresses, couches and tables stood on end to create the wall.  Then you use ratchet straps to suck the wall up against your stuff.  That's what I did.  Sheets of plywood would work too to create the walls.


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## mickri (Dec 22, 2021)

Spend some time tracking all of the electrical circuits in the new place.  Discovered that there is a 50 amp 240 volt circuit in the garage.  The prior owner was an artist who did some metal work.  He must of had a welder.  No plug on the circuit.  Just wires coming out of a junction box on the wall.

Redoing the house will keep me busy for awhile.  I will squeeze in some time when I can to start getting the garage/shop in shape.


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## mickri (Dec 23, 2021)

There is a semi enclosed covered patio off of the back of the house.  Not really useable as a patio.  I think that its main purpose was to shade the bedroom windows from hot afternoon summer sun.  I am thinking of using one end for garden tool storage and the rest for all of the woodworking stuff and storage.  Will cross that bridge once the house gets done and I start getting the garage in shape.


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## brino (Dec 24, 2021)

mickri said:


> Discovered that there is a 50 amp 240 volt circuit in the garage.



Great. That will save you a substantial amount of money and time!

Brian


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## mickri (Jan 16, 2022)

Before I could start drywall in the living room I needed to do some wiring in the garage.  The garage and living room share a wall.  I have been moving outlets and wiring 3 way switches for the garage lights the past several days. Roughed in wiring for more outlets too.  All of the existing outlets in the garage including the 240 volt outlet were almost 6 feet up from the floor.   The 110 outlets got moved to about 8" above the workbench and the 240 outlet got moved to under the workbench about 15" up from the floor and close to the garage door.  I like to do my welding out on the driveway for better ventilation. The lathe is now sitting on its bench but not fastened to the bench.  Hope to finish up the living room this coming week.  Lots of drywall repair in the living room/kitchen along with redoing the stairs to the loft.  This new place has been way more work than I anticipated.


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## C-Bag (Jan 16, 2022)

mickri said:


> This new place has been way more work than I anticipated.


This the operative word IMHO in any new place. Even when you have background in fixing up places there is still always surprises. You are a much more energetic guy than I am Chuck! We are going through major renovations and doing the small side jobs, like the flooring and baseboards in our new sunroom. For me the most crucial tool is the hot tub for end of the day after constant up and downs.

Unfortunately ours had to be disconnected because we are installing siding.


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## rabler (Jan 16, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> . For me the most crucial tool is the hot tub for end of the day after constant up and downs.


YES!
My wife got me a hot tub as a moving in present a couple years ago.  We'd had one in the 90's.  She doesn't join me that often, but I use mine nightly.  Got knocked over by an over enthusiastic young stallion a couple days ago, if it wasn't for the hot tub I'd be out of commission.


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## C-Bag (Jan 16, 2022)

rabler said:


> YES!
> My wife got me a hot tub as a moving in present a couple years ago.  We'd had one in the 90's.  She doesn't join me that often, but I use mine nightly.  Got knocked over by an over enthusiastic young stallion a couple days ago, if it wasn't for the hot tub I'd be out of commission.


I wasn’t a hot tub kinda guy until my SO came along. We just have one of those foam portable tubs that the motor is the heater so it only costs $35 a mo to run and it’s always hot and ready to go. Nothing smooths out the old joints and muscles like a tub. Proof she is my best half.


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## 7milesup (Jan 16, 2022)

mickri said:


> This new place has been way more work than I anticipated


A line that no other man has ever uttered.


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## Aukai (Jan 16, 2022)

I have not used a hot tub, but after boat trips fishing, the heated seats in my dually were the best.


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## mickri (Jan 16, 2022)

Talk about surprises.  I think that this one takes the cake.  In sorting out the phone lines today I went looking for which rooms had phone outlets.  In one bedroom that I am going to use as a den there was a cover plate over an electrical box.  No idea what was hidden in the box.  Took off the cover to discovered 240 volt lines.  A black, red and white.  Who puts 240 volts in a bedroom?  The wires are controlled by the 40 amp range/oven breaker.


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## 7milesup (Jan 17, 2022)

^^^ That's crazy.   Was that portion of the house added on to at some point?  Maybe was the kitchen originally?


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## ConValSam (Jan 17, 2022)

mickri said:


> Who puts 240 volts in a bedroom?


Maybe someone had a big window AC unit that ran on 240V.


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## 7milesup (Jan 17, 2022)

^^^There ya go!^^^


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## matthewsx (Jan 17, 2022)

mickri said:


> Talk about surprises.  I think that this one takes the cake.  In sorting out the phone lines today I went looking for which rooms had phone outlets.  In one bedroom that I am going to use as a den there was a cover plate over an electrical box.  No idea what was hidden in the box.  Took off the cover to discovered 240 volt lines.  A black, red and white.  Who puts 240 volts in a bedroom?  The wires are controlled by the 40 amp range/oven breaker.


What’s a den? 

Is that code for the place my spare mill will be setup?


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## vtcnc (Jan 17, 2022)

mickri said:


> Talk about surprises. I think that this one takes the cake. In sorting out the phone lines today I went looking for which rooms had phone outlets. In one bedroom that I am going to use as a den there was a cover plate over an electrical box. No idea what was hidden in the box. Took off the cover to discovered 240 volt lines. A black, red and white. Who puts 240 volts in a bedroom? The wires are controlled by the 40 amp range/oven breaker.



I’m betting Tanning Bed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vtcnc (Jan 17, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> What’s a den?
> 
> Is that code for the place my spare mill will be setup?



Machine Den


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## FOMOGO (Jan 17, 2022)

Maybe a really HD vibrator? Mike


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## C-Bag (Jan 17, 2022)

mickri said:


> Talk about surprises.  I think that this one takes the cake.  In sorting out the phone lines today I went looking for which rooms had phone outlets.  In one bedroom that I am going to use as a den there was a cover plate over an electrical box.  No idea what was hidden in the box.  Took off the cover to discovered 240 volt lines.  A black, red and white.  Who puts 240 volts in a bedroom?  The wires are controlled by the 40 amp range/oven breaker.


Makes me wonder how many times you’ve bought a house or if I’m just unlucky. Even though I felt armed to the teeth from all my bad experiences our present house takes the bakery. Every time I disturb the onion that is this place I feel like it’s one of those exploding cakes. There is not enough room here and I don’t want boor but the people who lived here thought they were handy and did many things they should never even attempted.

Related to your 240v find they left their crappy clapped out electric stove with matching crappy hood. The whole kitchen was tacky from their deep fried life style and the fact the hood they installed didn’t vent outside. It just recirculated. I wanted to put my wonderful old Merritt & O’Keefe gas stove in but it’s 40”W and the old one was 30” with cabinets and counters on both sides but we were going to redo the kitchen and I was desperate to trash that horrible stove and disgusting hood. But behind the stove was this huge hole with the 220 plug just floating in it as there was no stud to attach it to. And no gas line! Never seen such a thing! And no venting for a hood even though there appeared to be a vent on the roof. A while later I got an idea and looked in the upper and lower cabinets about a foot over and there were the original gas and 22v, covered and capped and straight up the covered vent. These people were weirder and dumber than a bag o hammers. And this is just one of their many stupid people tricks.


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## mickri (Jan 17, 2022)

The outlet is in a corner of the room on the back of the house.  About a foot from a sliding glass door that is original with the house on one side and 6" from the wall on the other side.  No room for a wall ac.  Maybe for an ac condenser?   And why would it be on the same circuit breaker as the range/oven?  Makes no sense to put an ac unit on the same breaker as the range/oven.  Did they have tanning beds in the 70's?

What's a den?  Anything that you want it to be.  Often a room with multiple uses.  I plan to have a comfy chair for reading in one corner and my hobby table along a wall.. What's a hobby table you ask?  A place to do things that you can't or don't want to do in the garage/shop.  My sewing machines (yes plural) reside under one end when not in use next to the rifle vise.  One use last year was to take apart and clean the fuel injection pump off of my sailboat's engine.  You need a clean place to do that.  The list goes on and on as to what you can do in a den.  Whatever is your heart's desire.

The bedroom is part of the original house and not an addition.  My next door neighbor's family has owned his house for over 40 years. He is a wealth of information.  My house and two others were the first homes built on the street.  Scuttlebutt is that the builder used kids in high school to build these homes.   Work on the house in the morning and play at the lake in the afternoon.  That might explain some things.  Mysteries never to be solved.


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## mickri (Mar 2, 2022)

Finally got to do some work in the garage today.  The moving POD was delivered on Monday and is getting picked up tomorrow.  The only thing damaged in the move was one of the legs on the stand for the vertical band saw split.  Don't know how or why that happened.  Everything was packed tight in place and held by ratchet straps.  So that got fixed today.  The big accomplishment was to get the mill/drill off the garage floor and onto its stand.  No easy task.  Had to make a bracket to hold the shackle for the chain hoist and attach it to the beam over the back garage door.  Picking up the base and setting it on the stand was no big deal.   The column and head was just the opposite.  The chain hoist would not pick it up high enough to set it on the base.  Got it as high as it would go and then picked up the column end.  After some struggle I got it to sit into the base at around a 45 degree angle..  To get it sitting upright I had to rest the head on my shoulder and push it upright while slacking the chain hoist.  Wasn't pretty but I got it done. 

Supposed to rain starting tomorrow and lasting till Saturday.   I needed to get everything off the driveway and packed into the garage before the rain.  Not much room to move around.

The major reconstruction inside the house is done until the new kitchen cabinets arrive towards the end of the month.  Going forward I am going to try alternating working a day in the house and then a day in the garage.  Current house project is installing laminate flooring and finishing up some drywall repair.  Next projects in the garage are to run wiring for the machines and get the lathe bolted down and leveled on its bench.

It's getting there.  Slowly.


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## mickri (Mar 3, 2022)

My current garage layout is on the left.  Proposed is on the right. There is an existing wood deck along the back of the garage.  Current plan is to use the deck as the floor for an extension off the garage to create a larger shop/storage area.  What I call the dirty area.  Radial arm saw and grinders etc will go in the extension.  I am thinking about taking the mill/drill off of its stand and mounting it on the work bench by the lathe.  That work bench runs from the lathe to the back of the garage.  The bench top from my previous lathe stand sits on top of the bench.  Would have to make something similar for the mill/drill to sit on.  Will also move the roll up door at the back of the garage to the back of the extension.  My 66 MG Midget goes in the open area at the front of the garage.  Also need to figure out where to put the small table saw that I recently acquired.  Probably have to put it on wheels like everything else.


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## mickri (Mar 10, 2022)

Was able to spend a good portion of the day in the garage.  Did some general sorting and organizing, ran some more electrical and got the lathe bolted down.  Initial checks indicate that while the bed tilts back to front and the headstock is higher than the tailstock, there does not appear to be any twist in the bed.  I might even be able to use it one of these days.


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## Aaron_W (Mar 10, 2022)

mickri said:


> Talk about surprises.  I think that this one takes the cake.  In sorting out the phone lines today I went looking for which rooms had phone outlets.  In one bedroom that I am going to use as a den there was a cover plate over an electrical box.  No idea what was hidden in the box.  Took off the cover to discovered 240 volt lines.  A black, red and white.  Who puts 240 volts in a bedroom?  The wires are controlled by the 40 amp range/oven breaker.



Maybe a base board or wall heater? We had multiple 240v electric heaters in the house when we moved in, one in each bathroom and one in what we turned into the laundry room that began as an enclosed porch and eventually was made into a room. The fun of old houses, ours has had a hodge podge of improvements over 110 years.


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## Winegrower (Mar 10, 2022)

mickri said:


> Probably have to put it on wheels like everything else.


This is what has saved me.  I have a bunch of stuff in two bays of a three bay outbuilding.  Maybe it’s 2 and a third bays.   The rule is, anything I do frequently, say daily, has to be directly accessible instantly.   Anything I do occasionally, say weekly, I can roll one thing out of the way, and infrequent things, like a big woodworking project with table saw, miter saw, planer, jointer, sander, dust collector, glue table…I will take the car out and roll things around to get an efficient work flow.

This has worked pretty well, and reduces overhead and frustration a lot.


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## C-Bag (Mar 10, 2022)

Winegrower said:


> This is what has saved me.  I have a bunch of stuff in two bays of a three bay outbuilding.  Maybe it’s 2 and a third bays.   The rule is, anything I do frequently, say daily, has to be directly accessible instantly.   Anything I do occasionally, say weekly, I can roll one thing out of the way, and infrequent things, like a big woodworking project with table saw, miter saw, planer, jointer, sander, dust collector, glue table…I will take the car out and roll things around to get an efficient work flow.
> 
> This has worked pretty well, and reduces overhead and frustration a lot.


Keeping everything mobile and consolidating similar equipment and machines with their associated accessories and tooling into workstations has kept my Tetris style shop going. Being blessed with ample mild weather has been an absolute boon as I rely on being as outside as possible. I have to move our trikes and small stands etc into the driveway in order to get floor space. Which it sounds like Chuck is taking advantage of too. Being out in the sunshine and fresh air is impossible to beat.


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## mickri (Jul 17, 2022)

Tomorrow I start on the shed.  It will be 10' wide by 12' long.  6' from the back door of the garage to the shed.  The 6' is required by building code so that I don't have to get a permit. There is an existing wood deck off the garage that I will be extending that will be the floor of the shed. The shed is mostly for storage.  Won't have electricity to start with.  Again to avoid having to get a permit.  I will start post pictures tomorrow.  Hope to have it done by next Thursday.

The dirty stuff will go in the shed.  Bench grinder, belt sander, band saws, wood working stuff, etc.  I will have to use extension cords.  Haven't figured out how I will arrange the table saw and radial arm saw.  I am thinking about having the table for the radial arm saw at the same height as the table saw.  I am also thinking about putting the table saw on wheels since it will be taking up space in the middle of the shed. 

The garage will house the lathe, mill and drill press for metal.  Have started looking for a flat file like C-Bag just posted about.  Don't have room for the all of the rolling cabinets that I have.  And the main one with my machining stuff is bursting at the seams.


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## C-Bag (Jul 17, 2022)

I look fwd to the shed build pix. My long range plans include building a good sized shed to replace the 8x10 that came with our place. So I appreciate hearing and seeing what you make and the reasoning behind it. Is 10x12 the largest you go without a permit? After putting tin on the old tent covered shed I’d like to do something similar for the new shed. I already have some of the main structure. It would be similar to the same use you describe for your shed. Tablesaw, beadblast cab, scaffold and engineering materials (junk) etc. All on a big brick patio between the back of the house and the back fence.


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## mickri (Jul 17, 2022)

120 sq ft is the largest shed you build without a permit.  Can't have electrical either without a permit.  Since I live in an HOA I have to be careful to follow the rules in case the HOA comes out to look at the shed. 

If you need more space you can build more that one 120 sq ft shed. County requires the sheds to be at least 6' apart.  I don't know if they can be connected by a roofed breezeway. I do not know if the County has a limit on the number of sheds you can have.  In my HOA I am limited to 3 sheds with a maximum of 300 sq ft.

Time to get to work.  Another scorcher today.  High forecast to be 110 plus.  Was 111 yesterday.


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## C-Bag (Jul 17, 2022)

mickri said:


> Another scorcher today. High forecast to be 110 plus. Was 111 yesterday.


That sux. The high here was 65 yesterday and will be the same today. After 56yrs of my life in that kind of heat then living here for the last 12yrs I have turned into a total temp wimp. Stay hydrated.


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## mickri (Jul 17, 2022)

After I get the shed done I am going to the boat for a week in Morro Bay.


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## C-Bag (Jul 17, 2022)

mickri said:


> After I get the shed done I am going to the boat for a week in Morro Bay.


It hard to go back to the heat after that. We did that a couple of times when my mom was dying in Pismo and it was tough.


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## mickri (Jul 17, 2022)

Didn't get as far as I hoped today before the heat drove me inside.  Something always seems to get in the way.  Like finishing installing the drip emitters for the front yard landscaping.  No more hand watering.  Yeah!!!  And removing some supports along the edge of the deck.  They were screwed on.  How time consuming can it be to remove a dozen or so screws.  Took forever to remove them.  Got the new support for the edge of the existing deck installed and one of the corner support blocks in place.  Wonder if I will get the rest of the support blocks and floor framing done tomorrow before it gets too hot to work.


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## Winegrower (Jul 17, 2022)

In a similar situation I would have no trouble ditching the radial arm saw.


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## matthewsx (Jul 18, 2022)

I have a "temporary' shed in the front of my house that I plan on using for similar stuff. Need to make a good floor in there since it's just a bunch of different pallets with solid tops in there now. Where I work there are lots of plastic palates some of which have holes on the top. I'm thinking to level the dirt underneath and put them in there, then fill with small stone like the pervious driveways some folks use. 

Also couldn't go back to the heat, or the cold for that matter....

John


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## mickri (Jul 18, 2022)

I bought the radial arm saw new almost 40 years ago to remodel a previous home.  It has served me well over the years and is an old friend that I can't part with.


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## C-Bag (Jul 18, 2022)

mickri said:


> Didn't get as far as I hoped today before the heat drove me inside.  Something always seems to get in the way.  Like finishing installing the drip emitters for the front yard landscaping.  No more hand watering.  Yeah!!!  And removing some supports along the edge of the deck.  They were screwed on.  How time consuming can it be to remove a dozen or so screws.  Took forever to remove them.  Got the new support for the edge of the existing deck installed and one of the corner support blocks in place.  Wonder if I will get the rest of the support blocks and floor framing done tomorrow before it gets too hot to work.
> 
> View attachment 414148
> View attachment 414149


That is a fact of life for me doing any kind of home project. Everything takes 5x’s longer than I think it should.


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## C-Bag (Jul 18, 2022)

mickri said:


> I bought the radial arm saw new almost 40 years ago to remodel a previous home.  It has served me well over the years and is an old friend that I can't part with.


I have that same attachment with my original Proto tool set. If feels like I’ve lost a family member when I lose one. I don’t have any big machines I’ve had that long luckily. But doing the kind of work you’re doing with the shed I would rather use the RAS than tablesaw.


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## matthewsx (Jul 18, 2022)

This might be wacky, but would it be possible to use the table saw as a base for the radial arm saw?


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## mickri (Jul 18, 2022)

When I was in high school and started working on cars my grandfather gave me an old set of snap on sockets to use.  They were left over from a gas station that he had owned.  When I graduated high school I asked as a graduation present if I could fill out all of the missing pieces from that socket set.  My dad and I went into a Sears store and I filled a shopping full of every wrench and socket imaginable.  I still have everyone of those tools except for a 3/8 drive 1/2" socket.  The 1/2" socket fell into the bilge of my sailboat.  Never could find it.  I guess I still have it.


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## mickri (Jul 18, 2022)

I am out of the ground as they say.  Got all of the concrete supports and floor joists in today.  Everything is square and mostly level.  Had hoped to get the 2x6 fir subfloor installed.  That didn't happen.  I guess the last week of working my ass off finally caught with me.  Barely got done what I did before I decided I had better call it quits for the day.  Subfloor tomorrow and then off to buy lumber to frame the shed.


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## extropic (Jul 18, 2022)

mickri said:


> Tomorrow I start on the shed.  It will be 10' wide by 12' long.  6' from the back door of the garage to the shed.  The 6' is required by building code so that I don't have to get a permit. There is an existing wood deck off the garage that I will be extending that will be the floor of the shed. The shed is mostly for storage.  Won't have electricity to start with.  Again to avoid having to get a permit.  I will start post pictures tomorrow.  Hope to have it done by next Thursday.
> 
> The dirty stuff will go in the shed.  Bench grinder, belt sander, band saws, wood working stuff, etc.  *I will have to use extension cords.*  Haven't figured out how I will arrange the table saw and radial arm saw.  I am thinking about having the table for the radial arm saw at the same height as the table saw.  I am also thinking about putting the table saw on wheels since it will be taking up space in the middle of the shed.
> 
> The garage will house the lathe, mill and drill press for metal.  Have started looking for a flat file like C-Bag just posted about.  Don't have room for the all of the rolling cabinets that I have.  And the main one with my machining stuff is bursting at the seams.



Regarding electrical hook-up, I have done the following, to power a "storage shed".
Wire up the shed as required for your convenience, including a load center (breakers), lights, switches and receptacles.
Power the load center via socket (such as below if, 30 Amps is sufficient) mounted on the exterior wall in a weatherproof enclosure.
Mount the female mate on your garage (also in a weatherproof enclosure) and use a extension cord between the two. If you need more than 30 Amps, I think you'll have to be more clever about the weatherproof enclosures and contents, but it's do able.



			https://www.amazon.com/Journeyman-Pro-Generator-Receptacle-Industrial-Grounding/dp/B018IQXC0W/ref=asc_df_B018IQXC0W/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=193994910693&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12717780929908192366&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1013962&hvtargid=pla-313511131413&th=1


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## C-Bag (Jul 18, 2022)

So it look like the garage has a door on the front and back, true? So it’s pass through? That’s handy if it is. Have you found out if you can have an awning between the shed and the garage?

My only way of coping with the stupid heat when living in the valley was living like a farmer, early to rise early to bed. Start about 5:30 and go to around 2 or 3 ideally but the last job they made us work until 5pm. Working in a huge 400’long building. Hotter inside than it was outside. I could drink 3-4gal water a day and never even pee.

Hang in there Chuck.


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## mickri (Jul 18, 2022)

The garage has roll up doors front and back.  I think that I can put up an awning between the garage and shed.  The HOA does have rules on awnings.  Seems like they are mostly concerned about an awning in the front of the house.  There will be a 6' high dog eared cedar fence between them.  The roof line of the shed will be a close match to the roof line on the garage.  It would be easy to put an awning between them.

I am not worried about electricity.  The garage is only 6' from the shed.  An extension cord will work to run whatever I might need to use.  The garage has a 110 20 amp line for the plugs and there is a 50 amp 220 outlet at the front of the garage.


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## mickri (Jul 24, 2022)

The walls are up and squared.  Will put the siding and roof rafters on today.  Might get the roof sheeting on tomorrow or Tuesday for sure.  Then wait for HOA approval of the comp shingle color.  That could take a couple of weeks.  I will start moving stuff in once the roof sheeting is on.


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## Larry$ (Jul 24, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> So it look like the garage has a door on the front and back


Having doors on both ends of a shop is a really good idea. It allows flow through air movement, cutting down on heat trapping.
HOAs get carried away, even have to approve shingle color!


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## mickri (Jul 25, 2022)

HOA's have to approve just about everything on the outside of your property.  Living here was not my first choice.  My kids wanted a place at the lake with all of its amenities.  And it was well within my budget for a house.  Talk about inflation.  Home prices in this area have almost doubled in the last 2 to 3 years.


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## C-Bag (Jul 25, 2022)

mickri said:


> HOA's have to approve just about everything on the outside of your property.  Living here was not my first choice.  My kids wanted a place at the lake with all of its amenities.  And it was well within my budget for a house.  Talk about inflation.  Home prices in this area have almost doubled in the last 2 to 3 years.


Our little silly house in Los Osos has tripled in 12yrs. The only way we were able to get in here was it was ‘09 and close to the bottom of the mkt. but I’m not joking, we only saw 2 houses at around the $300k and they were tear downs. Shady neighborhoods and a complete mess. Now those tear downs are $750 to $850k. INSANE. Makes no sense. I don’t see any of this as real but I am truly grateful to be out of the heat.

I was in Paso on Saturday morning to see some old school buddies for breakfast and got there at 9am. It was 70 when I walked in, when we came out at noon it was 100.


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## Winegrower (Jul 25, 2022)

Occasionally I hear people ask “how does anyone afford a million dollar house?”.   It’s simple, they sell their old place for $850K.


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## C-Bag (Jul 25, 2022)

Winegrower said:


> Occasionally I hear people ask “how does anyone afford a million dollar house?”.   It’s simple, they sell their old place for $850K.


I'd laugh, but I'm constantly having to cool my wife's real estate jets when she starts in with that false logic. The whole thing is such a misnomer. How is this "real estate"? It is for the whales on WallSt. that are pumping, then harvesting when they cause it to crash. Rents have gone the same route as these robber baron's make the available places scarce. Rents are a house payment + now.


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## Papa Charlie (Jul 25, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> I'd laugh, but I'm constantly having to cool my wife's real estate jets when she starts in with that false logic. The whole thing is such a misnomer. How is this "real estate"? It is for the whales on WallSt. that are pumping, then harvesting when they cause it to crash. Rents have gone the same route as these robber baron's make the available places scarce. Rents are a house payment + now.


I retired back in November. The plan originally to sell our boat, buy a small place maybe with some land that I could have a shop and finish our life enjoying a bit of the country life as I started life. With everything going on right now, that dream seems to be fading. Been living on our boat since 2010 after 2008 took most everything. Now to sell it, we need to rent a place as you can't sell a boat while you are living on board. Prices of rentals is almost double what home payments are in this area. 

So we are kind of on hold as we see what is going to happen and where we might be able to have our dream.


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## mickri (Jul 25, 2022)

I got lucky on my new place.  It was in bad shape and not lendable.  I was a cash buyer and out bid the flippers.  Costing me around $30K for materials to fix it up.  I am doing everything myself.  If I had to pay someone to fix it up I could not afford it.

I thought about moving back on my sailboat.  I lived aboard from Jan. 2004 to Oct. 2014.  I much prefer living on the boat to living on land.   Still working on the siding.


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## C-Bag (Jul 25, 2022)

mickri said:


> I got lucky on my new place. It was in bad shape and not lendable. I was a cash buyer and out bid the flippers. Costing me around $30K for materials to fix it up. I am doing everything myself. If I had to pay someone to fix it up I could not afford it.


It is really luck and the ability to weigh all the variables. You are blessed you knew what you were looking at and how to fix it. I learned from the hard knocks of two previous houses and I knew this was going to be a slog here. My then girlfriend now wife had no clue having never bought a house except that we had the presence of mind to make a list of what we wanted. And even though it was a mess it still amazingly ticked all the boxes. Even though I sometimes refer to the place as My Millstone we just have not found anyplace better. SO loves to to go to open houses and she always comes back appreciating the Millstone. She has learned a bunch here because she saw what I did and was in on what repairs take in time and $$$.


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## matthewsx (Jul 25, 2022)

Winegrower said:


> Occasionally I hear people ask “how does anyone afford a million dollar house?”.   It’s simple, they sell their old place for $850K.


Problem is property tax basis going from the $400k you bought it for to $1M, that's a hard pill to swallow when you're at or near retirement age....

John


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## Winegrower (Jul 25, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> Problem is property tax basis going from the $400k you bought it for to $1M, that's a hard pill to swallow when you're at or near retirement age....


Humm...maybe do it the other way around?


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## matthewsx (Jul 25, 2022)

Winegrower said:


> Humm...maybe do it the other way around?


Sure, if you want to move to a place where you can get something in that range.

I like Santa Cruz and won't be moving anytime soon if I have my way....

John


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## Winegrower (Jul 25, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> Problem is property tax basis going from the $400k you bought it for to $1M


California does not directly increase property tax until the place is sold, and then annual taxes are set at about 1.1% of the sale price.   So we retired folks don't have to worry too much about increasing property tax...though there are some smaller add-ons that can increase.

Ok, some of you CPAs can clarify/correct what I'm saying here.


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## mickri (Jul 25, 2022)

In California a senior citizen can transfer their lower assessed value from their prior home if certain conditions are met.  The purchase price of the new home has to be less than or equal to the sales price of the prior home.  Both have to be your primary residence.  And you can only do this once.  I may be wrong on that.  There were some requirements but I don't recall what they were.  I met the requirements and was able to transfer the assessed value from my prior home to the new place.  Saves me several thousand $$$$ on property taxes.

Getting back to the shed.  I ran out of galvanized nails and need a few other things.  So I'm off to Lowes to buy more stuff.


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## matthewsx (Jul 25, 2022)

Herein lies the rub....

"The purchase price of the new home has to be less than or equal to the sales price of the prior home."

Waiting for more pics on your shed   

John


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## mickri (Jul 25, 2022)

The policy is to help senior citizens who are downsizing and moving to a smaller home.  The smaller home should cost less than the house they are selling.  Some numbers will help.  Assessed value of prior home is $150,000.  The senior citizen sells this home for $1,000,000.  As long as the replacement home is purchased for $1,000,000 or less the senior citizen can transfer their previous home's assessed valuation of $150,000 to their new home.  If the purchase price of the replacement home is greater than $1,000,000 than it is assessed based on the purchase price.  I just made these numbers up to illustrate the concept.

 Shed pictures


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## Papa Charlie (Jul 25, 2022)

It is starting to look like a shed. Nice job.

Are you planning on adding and vents? When we were living in Antioch, CA the summers were brutal. I added an attic vent in the garage with the thermostat on the fan. It sure helped, not the end all answer but surely helped. I added a switch to override the auto system so that I could vent smoke from welding and vehicles. I had planned on adding a louver on the opposite side to pull fresh air in but never got around to it.


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## mickri (Jul 25, 2022)

There will be vents in the eaves on both sides.


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## mickri (Aug 5, 2022)

It is getting closer to being finished.  Finished putting on the roof sheathing today.  Tomorrow will be cleaning up loose ends and installing the trim.  Might even get a coat of paint on Sunday.  I'll take some more pictures tomorrow.  Still trying to decide how I will do the doors.


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## mickri (Aug 6, 2022)

Didn't get as much done this morning before it got too hot as I wanted to.  Major chore today was to put the roofing felt on and the install the drip edge.  Then I couldn't help myself.  I had to put some stuff in the shed so I could get to the boards that I will cut for the trim.   One thing led to another and I was moving the machines that go in the shed from the garage to the shed.  Then I cleaned up the greenbelt next to the shed and set the fence panel that will go between the shed and the garage in place.  The fence panel will get cut down to fit.  Trim and loose ends can wait for tomorrow.


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## C-Bag (Aug 6, 2022)

You rock Chuck! I wish I could get a fraction of what you seem to punch out done!

Looks good.


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## Papa Charlie (Aug 6, 2022)

Looking good, did you get the HOA's approval on the color of the shingles? Can you use shingles in your area for that slope?


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## mickri (Aug 6, 2022)

The HOA approved the color of the shingles.  The shingles will be sierra grey. I am getting the shingles from Home Depot.  They have the best price.  Nobody else is even close to HD's price.  I will have to get a day laborer to load the shingles on the roof.  There is only one company that offers to load shingles on the roof in this area.  Their cost is double HD's cost. I will be reroofing the house with the same shingles.

I can use shingles in this area.  It gets cold in the winter but rarely ever snows.   Maybe once every decade or so.  And then it is gone as soon as the sun comes out.  Doesn't rain much either.  Average rainfall is 10" to 15" per year.


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## mickri (Aug 7, 2022)

Paint tomorrow.


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## mickri (Aug 10, 2022)

First coat of paint on Monday.  Tomorrow I will install the corner trim pieces.  I wanted to have paint under them to help seal the wood siding in the corners. Then the 2nd and hopefully final coat of paint.  Moved the radial arm saw into the shed and some other stuff.  Cleaned more stuff out of covered patio.  Some went into the trash.  Wood scraps were set aside for kindling for the wood stove.




Forgot to post this Monday evening.


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## mickri (Aug 10, 2022)

Back at it today.  Got the corner trim pieces on and most of the second coat of paint on.  Had to stop painting when the wind came up. I was using my sprayer to paint the grooves and under the eaves.  The paint was just getting blown away.  Only have a small section left under the eaves.  Nailed the fence panel in place that went between the garage and the shed.  Tomorrow finish the paint in the morning and then make the gate and fill in a small section of fencing.  The backyard will be all fenced in.





I am already running out of room in the shed and am considering a small metal garden shed in the back corner of the yard.  Will it ever end?  Doubtful.

I case you have been wondering what about the typical side yard, the tract where I live is built on a zero lot line concept.  The house is built on one lot line and there is a 10' wide side yard on the other lot line.  This allows boat, trailer, RV, etc. access to the backyard to store the toys.


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## mickri (Aug 12, 2022)

Painting, fence and gate are done.  Off to the boat for the weekend to beat the heat for a few days.


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## Papa Charlie (Aug 12, 2022)

Turned out really nice. Great job.


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## C-Bag (Aug 12, 2022)

Great job Chuck.


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## mickri (Oct 12, 2022)

After trying to get some info from the county on a reroof permit for like a month I finally got a call back that I didn't need a permit to put new shingles over the old shingles.  Ordered the new shingles last week and they got delivered on Monday.  57 bundles to roof the house, garage, covered patio and the shed.  The only company that will load the shingles on the roof in my area wanted almost double Home Depot's price.  Being frugal I ordered the shingles from HD.  Carrying an entire bundle up on to the roof was not happening.  Getting old is no fun.  Each bundle has 20 to 22 shingles.  Loading 6 to 8 shingles at a time wasn't bad.  Loaded 20 bundles on Monday between the shed, garage and covered patio.

Started on the shed this morning.  Got a little over half done before the shingles got too hot kneel on.  Will finish either this evening or tomorrow.


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## aliva (Oct 12, 2022)

Does California normally require a permit to replace your shingles? If you remove the old ones is permit needed?


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## mickri (Oct 12, 2022)

The previous two reroof's where I put new shingles over the old shingles required building permits.  One was in the City of San Clemente and the other was in Fresno County.  Based on that I was expecting to need a building permit.  I have no idea if other places in California would require a building permit.


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## Boswell (Oct 12, 2022)

rabler said:


> Happily, I don't even need a building permit/inspection for the new shop. Only for septic tanks. I like this county.


same here. only permit I needed to build our house was from the county for the septic system. we are in an unincorporated area with wildlife preserve bordering two sides of our property and no rules or regulations. I should point out that this comes with its own issues. Someone bought some property from a neighbor and then cut all the trees down to put in a storage rental facility. I have never lived under an HOA and nothing I have heard encourages me to change that.

--- EDIT: just realized that my reply above was to a post almost a year old


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## Aaron_W (Oct 12, 2022)

aliva said:


> Does California normally require a permit to replace your shingles? If you remove the old ones is permit needed?



Varies by the city / county, rural counties generally being a bit more laid back on what needs a permit.


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## mickri (Oct 12, 2022)

Got the shed roof on.  Took 5 1/2 to 6 hours.  Too dark for a picture.  Will take one tomorrow morning.  Will start on the garage tomorrow.  Then the house next week.  The house has a 6 in 12 pitch.  It is a little slippery.  My son-in-law's uncle is a roofer.  He closed down his company a few years ago and now does small jobs here and there.  I am going to get him to help on the house roof.


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