# I bought inserts that were too small



## erikmannie (May 28, 2020)

I am posting this in the Precision Matthews section because I bought my insert kits from Precision Matthews. I think this is a very common size.

So I thought I did good research in finding the part number for this insert that I bought. The dark colored carbide insert on the left is the one that I bought. The gold colored carbide insert on the right is what I’m using.

I actually have a use for this small insert, as well, but do you guys know the part number for the large insert on the right? I like carbide.

I will also upload a screenshot of the eBay product that I bought which is the small insert.


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## erikmannie (May 28, 2020)

This is the eBay auction for the small gray insert.


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## darkzero (May 28, 2020)

Small one: CCMT 21.5_
Larger one: CCMT 32.5_

"_" denotes the nose radius you want.


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## darkzero (May 28, 2020)

The above are ANSI designations.

ISO designations are:

21.5_ = 06020_
32.5_ = 09T30_


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## erikmannie (May 28, 2020)

Thank you!
Here is info from the PM insert kit that I bought:


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## erikmannie (May 28, 2020)

darkzero said:


> The above are ANSI designations.
> 
> ISO designations are:
> 
> ...



I’m going to look for some now, and I will post a picture.


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## erikmannie (May 28, 2020)

Are these the correct (carbide) inserts?


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## erikmannie (May 28, 2020)

And for HSS? I will try to find a candidate there.


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## darkzero (May 28, 2020)

I don't know why they call it 300 series, never heard that before. But the 300 would indicate 3/8" inscribed circle which are the 32.5_/09T30_ inserts.

This link will be very helpful:






						Insert Designation Chart - provides ANSI and ISO designation code definitions for carbide insert shapes, relief angles, tolerances, chipbreaker codes, hole types, size values, thickness values, radius values, wiper lead angle, wiper clearance angle, 
					

Carbide Insert Designation Chart



					www.carbidedepot.com


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## darkzero (May 28, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> Are these the correct (carbide) inserts?
> View attachment 325758



Yes. 

32.5*1 *& 21.5*1* (04 for ISO) are the most popular nose radius for CCMT/CCGT/CCGX inserts, 1/64" nose radius.


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## darkzero (May 28, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> And for HSS? I will try to find a candidate there.



HSS inserts for indexable tools aren't really common.. The only one I'm aware of that makes them is AR Warner.





__





						Standard and Specialty Inserts
					





					www.arwarnerco.com


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## erikmannie (May 28, 2020)

I ended up buying these because it will be shipped from the USA:


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## erikmannie (May 28, 2020)

darkzero said:


> HSS inserts for indexable tools aren't really common.. The only one I'm aware of that makes them is AR Warner.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am okay to pass on HSS for now. Many of the descriptions for HSS inserts indicate that they are to be used for cutting aluminum.

Half of the inserts in the Precision Matthews kits looked like HSS in that they are silver in color. I will try to post a link of what I’m talking about.


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## erikmannie (May 28, 2020)

It would appear that these would be the inserts to buy for cutting aluminum.  I did end up buying these.


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## MrWhoopee (May 28, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> I ended up buying these because it will be shipped from the USA:
> View attachment 325761



Mitsubishi are the most commonly counterfeited inserts. Not saying these aren't decent inserts, just that there's a good chance they're fake (and overpriced). I've bought lots of the cheapest most economical inserts I could find (<$5/pack) and have found them to be perfectly serviceable. For general, home shop work, I wouldn't be worrying about insert coatings or special grades, those become important for CNC production work. The ones you ordered for steel will cut aluminum just fine.


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## Aukai (May 29, 2020)

I'm floating in the same boat, inserts are maddeningly complicated to me. "Just look for this" , then find inserts with more letters, and decimal point numbers than you can shake a stick at. I can find the first 6-8 or so letters/numbers on the charts, but I'm not finding applications, I'm still figuring that out. HSS is easier for application, but geometry is a question mark too, Mikey's HSS thread has a lot of info for that.


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## darkzero (May 29, 2020)

Aukai said:


> I'm floating in the same boat, inserts are maddeningly complicated to me. "Just look for this" , then find inserts with more letters, and decimal point numbers than you can shake a stick at. I can find the first 6-8 or so letters/numbers on the charts, but I'm not finding applications, I'm still figuring that out. HSS is easier for application, but geometry is a question mark too, Mikey's HSS thread has a lot of info for that.



I know searching for the right insert type & grade for your needs can be frustrating but if you want an easier solution, although I haven't dealt with him personally, contact Curtis at latheinserts.com. Tell him what holders you have & what materials you want to machine. He'll sell you what you need. His prices are fair & carries good stuff but they are not ebay china prices.


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## Aukai (May 29, 2020)

Thanks Will, I have a newbie phobia about calling places, I read sites for charts etc, but I hate to bother people. I can just see the guy's face at Sandvik rolling his eyes. I'll check it out, thanks. See even you won't turn us on to your guy, so we won't bother them/him...


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## darkzero (May 29, 2020)

Haha, I don't have a "guy". I'm cheap, I buy 95% of my inserts on ebay. I'm always looking out for deals.

I don't like to call either, I just don't like talking on the phone these days. I will email though although many times a phone call is much quicker to get your answers.

But Curtis is helpful. Before I came to this forum, on another forum he helped many people (hobby guys) & people spoke highly of him. I still see people recommending him even recently. IIRC he used to work for Kennametal. Not sure if things have changed with him. I see he's got a lot more stuff on his website now. Send him an email, won't hurt to ask.


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## Aukai (May 29, 2020)

Will do, Will, I crack myself up sometimes....


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## 7milesup (May 29, 2020)

I have purchased some stuff from Chris.  Super helpful guy.  Yes, he is more money than eBay but I like to support folks like him if I can.


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## macardoso (May 29, 2020)

Same boat as you, but perhaps a bit more experience searching for the inserts. I use the same style and size as you for 90% of my turning work. Agree with the above that you need a CCMT32.5x or CCMT09T30x.

Here's my tips.


Chinese branded CCGT or CCGX inserts are ground to a razor edge for non-ferrous metals. They also work extremely well in steel and stainless (with shorter insert life). You really should try these, they make turning very pleasurable and cut very similar to sharp HSS. Low cutting forces. Shars sells ZCC (a quality Chinese name brand - yes they exist) for about $5 an insert. They're definitely better than the eBay inserts, but maybe not 5 times better. Here are the ones I just bought 4 packs of (LINK).
Mitsubishi and Sandvik inserts on eBay under $20 for a new pack are certainly counterfit. They do cut, but the edge condition and corner radius accuracy are garbage. I like to use the manufacturer cutting data when possible and it won't match these products. I would not buy again. The VP15TF grade = total garbage. This is supposed to be a specialty grade from Mutsubishi, but it really is Chinese junk (LINK)
Unbranded cheap inserts I have had decent luck with. They do what they claim and I like that they aren't trying to convince you that they are real. $10-15 per box of 10 seems standard and fair for the quality.
Choose a small corner radius unless you really just want to rough stuff in hard. They are more versatile and can do accurate finishing.
Consider picking up a VCMT insert tool. I like the low cutting forces from the narrow insert when I am doing finishing and turning narrow workpieces. 
-Mike


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## GunsOfNavarone (May 29, 2020)

I think I did the exact opposite...bought the large, needed the small. If I didn't return them, I'd swap ya


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## Aaron_W (May 30, 2020)

There are some good websites to guide one through the insert  codes. I don't have a link handy just now but a search should turn one up. I needed to match up some tooling and used a site which then helped me find some great deals on ebay for NOS USA made inserts. I was able to get 10 packs for the retail of single inserts.

An additional issue is there is more than one standard for coding, and the site I used also gave crossover info. If I can find the site I used I will post the link.


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## Flyinfool (May 30, 2020)

I also like supporting the local guy.
There is a tooling supplier just a short walk from where I work, I just take my tool in with me and tell them I need something to fit this and cut that and he sets me up. WHen I need some thing special I can go in and describe my dilema and they set me up right. Are they the cheapest, heck no, but they know their cutting tools as that is all they sell and I would hate to see them go away.


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## MrWhoopee (May 30, 2020)

I, too, ended up with a pack of inserts that were too small. Rather than return them (shipping was more than the inserts cost), I ordered a 10mm shank LH turning tool. Now I have an inserted fly-cutter.


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