# The Desperation "Repair it Regardless" Dilemma



## graham-xrf (Oct 4, 2021)

This is about a repair that I am least proud of. It is an absolute bodge-up hang-together that somehow managed to remain hanging together, and actually works!. A pinnacle of success in turd polishing!

I am up to my ears in defunct mowers, though actually, one of the three is just about getting the ubiquitous Briggs & Stratton run speed regulator set up for a friend. Two had to have the busted pull-cord spring fixed. I just cut off a little, heat the end of the spring where I want it to bend back over, and re-assemble. All always need a scene of underside unpleasant clean-up of caked on grass and mud covering rusting bits. One is in major disassembly, and may never go back together again.

*The Dilemma*
The lady of the house wants a working mower. Yep - at my place, she mows the grass. The 5 HP Flymo powered walk-behind would no longer be level. That was about a disconnect in the linkage that lets the wheels move together, relying on a rusty split-pin sans washer. The walk-behind no longer worked because of belt jammed up in the seized up mechanism, and the blade had somehow mangled up the plastic parts under.

One cannot just call up Flymo, and ask for spares replacements of the plastic bits underneath a RL550 circa 2003 (about). You might as well be asking for rocking horse poo! The choice was to spend several hundred pounds out of the _surface grinder_ fund, or try and patch it up. I was reluctant to let go because of the investment in the other repairs so far, and I already bought a replacement air filter.

So - I took it apart enough to untangle the belt, and sort of refurbish things back to moving. The pictures show what I did out of a scrap piece of aluminium sheet from the garage. It's a pop-rivet abomination, and at one stage, I ran out of 3.2mm washers, so I had to improvise. I figured out how the remaining plastic bits jigsaw went together, and I gave them a prosthetic metal support. Various 1/4-20 flange nuts became M6 galvanized with nylok nuts.

OK - so it now works, but although I am trying so hard to evict these unwanted extras out of my life, this crap just keeps on happening. The surface grinder, and various other stuff seem to keep slipping away. This time, maybe I started to claw things back a little!


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## benmychree (Oct 4, 2021)

The lady of the house MUST be kept in good humor!


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## mattthemuppet2 (Oct 4, 2021)

looks fine to me, very medieval style  I love pop rivets for sheet metal, so fast and so much fun!


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## Janderso (Oct 4, 2021)

benmychree said:


> The lady of the house MUST be kept in good humor!


Keep going...
How does one do that?


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## graham-xrf (Oct 4, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Keep going...
> How does one do that?


One sacrifices the surface grinder fund!


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## Janderso (Oct 4, 2021)

Italy or a $10,000 machine tool?
Memories are great and all but I’d remember more about what I did on my new ………
Yes dear, Tuscany sounds wonderful.


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## markba633csi (Oct 4, 2021)

FIAT! (fix it again Tony)


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## graham-xrf (Oct 5, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Italy or a $10,000 machine tool?
> Memories are great and all but I’d remember more about what I did on my new ………
> Yes dear, Tuscany sounds wonderful.


Blasting the wallet in Italy with someone is about people.
Getting the machine tool is about a thing.
Always put stuff about people ahead x100, or x1000, or maybe just always!


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## wachuko (Oct 5, 2021)

If Momma is not happy….nobody is…a man has to do, what a man has to do to keep her happy.

Happy wife, happy life and all that…


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## graham-xrf (Oct 5, 2021)

One thing I have noticed about pop-rivet washers.
3.2mm is 0.00098 inches more than 1/8"
I wonder if there is such a thing as a metric pop-riveter. Maybe down among the bones, they are all imperial anyway?

It also got me thinking that pop rivets could be a perfectly acceptable thing, even where we use drilled, counterbored and tapped. Two bits could be located relative to each other with dowel pins, and held together with pop-rivets. Umm.. maybe yuk! ?? 
The concept of a counterbore for a pop-rivet just feels wrong!

Hmm.. now that I have thought this through, let us all love pop-rivets for sheet metal and plastics. They look good and work great.  We should stay with blued or black grade 8 hex for stuff that has that uncompromising air of quality. The contrast looks great against ground surfaces.  Only you may know that everything trams to within a few tenths, but that's OK!


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## wachuko (Oct 5, 2021)

Flymo was the company that had those hovering lawnmowers, right?

Your is the more common style with the powered wheels.  Can you share a photo of the complete unit?  Curious what it looks like all together.

Good job on keeping it alive/working.


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## projectnut (Oct 5, 2021)

Many years ago we were in the same situation when our Bolens mower died on the spot.  Bolens had been out of business for nearly 20 years and parts for their machines were about as available as those for your Flymo.  In this case the 14 hp engine needed a coil which was custom made for that particular machine.  The wife finally had enough of me fixing the machine as much as using it.  She came to the door and said "It's time to let that antique go.  You can buy a new tractor, but do your research because I don't want to have to buy another one every couple years."

I started searching for replacements and found there were literally dozens of makes and models available.  It got so complicated I had to make a spread sheet to help wade through the process.  It took nearly 6 months to narrow it down to the top 4 brands.  All had been in business for many years and offered similar products at similar prices.  It finally came down to who had parts available long after the sale.  As it turned out John Deere was the winner.  They still stocked parts for their first garden tractors that were made in 1966.  They weren't cheap. but at least they were available 36 years later.

That clinched the decision.  I ordered a JD 445 with all wheel steering.  It's now over 21 years old and has been the most dependable machine I've ever owned.  It still looks like new and in all those years the only things it's needed is regular maintenance, a new set of tires (the originals literally rotted out at the side walls), and a couple belts.


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## wachuko (Oct 5, 2021)

projectnut said:


> Many years ago we were in the same situation when our Bolens mower died on the spot.  Bolens had been out of business for nearly 20 years and parts for their machines were about as available as those for your Flymo.  In this case the 14 hp engine needed a coil which was custom made for that particular machine.  The wife finally had enough of me fixing the machine as much as using it.  She came to the door and said "It's time to let that antique go.  You can buy a new tractor, but do your research because I don't want to have to buy another one every couple years."
> 
> I started searching for replacements and found there were literally dozens of makes and models available.  It got so complicated I had to make a spread sheet to help wade through the process.  It took nearly 6 months to narrow it down to the top 4 brands.  All had been in business for many years and offered similar products at similar prices.  It finally came down to who had parts available long after the sale.  As it turned out John Deere was the winner.  They still stocked parts for their first garden tractors that were made in 1966.  They weren't cheap. but at least they were available 36 years later.
> 
> That clinched the decision.  I ordered a JD 445 with all wheel steering.  It's now over 21 years old and has been the most dependable machine I've ever owned.  It still looks like new and in all those years the only things it's needed is regular maintenance, a new set of tires (the originals literally rotted out at the side walls), and a couple belts.


Well... as long as it did not have a Tecumseh HH100 engine... since that company went out of business, finding replacement engine pars is very difficult... but yes John Deere is the best when it comes to parts availability.  Everything on the John Deere side, they have available...

1967 JD 112 - work in progress...




Used replacement engine block found in eBay




New old stock valves also found in eBay...


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## graham-xrf (Oct 5, 2021)

wachuko said:


> Flymo was the company that had those hovering lawnmowers, right?
> 
> Your is the more common style with the powered wheels.  Can you share a photo of the complete unit?  Curious what it looks like all together.
> 
> Good job on keeping it alive/working.


OK - when I can get back to where it is, I will take a few photos.

Flymo were originally famous for the "hover" type, and come to think of it, I still have an abandoned one of that sort stashed in the neighbor's barn. I thought it was not so much "flying" as "dragging around a plastic guard with a spinning blade" in it's undersides.

Great job on the John Deere. The ride-on tractor is not in the same league as a walk-behind mower. John Deere kit is very popular around here, but I think most of the stuff on the farm out back is JCB. When I am done, stuff like mowers will not have a home in my outbuilding. I am already getting picky about what machines will grace that space. I just have to navigate the line between replacement and nonsensical repairs.

*Fixing up? Repairing? Refurbishment? Restoration? *
I guess it may be about the status of the object when seen through the filter of a guy who is a member of a group called "Hobby Machinist".

If it's a old Flymo, it gets pop-rivets prosthetics in aluminium. Repairs regardless is a kind of extension to hoarding junk!
BUT ..
If its an old South Bend, it gets unlimited TLC. Every part that it needs gets replaced/restored, upgraded, and made to look good. Maybe to be like like original new, but with a specification that likely exceeds the way it was when it left the factory. OR - it might end up with modifications and extras. If it carries some patina, and dings from encounters in it's previous life, that's OK too. This is also "repairs regardless", but not to "hoarded junk".


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## rabler (Oct 5, 2021)

graham-xrf said:


> ... BUT ..
> If its an old South Bend, ...


Priorities!  Where do you want to spend YOUR time.

My grandfather was a machinist for Giddings & Lewis in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin.   His home hobby was using his machining skills to work on lawn mowers.  If you asked for a picture of him, you get a picture of him on his favorite garden tractor.  He built it himself.  It used two 3 speed manual car transmissions, lowest speed was to put both in reverse.   He'd grown up as a younger son of a farmer, and knew the older brother would inherit the farm, so he took the machining job.  But he always had a big garden, apple trees, and a nice yard.


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## projectnut (Oct 5, 2021)

wachuko said:


> Well... as long as it did not have a Tecumseh HH100 engine... since that company went out of business, finding replacement engine pars is very difficult... but yes John Deere is the best when it comes to parts availability.  Everything on the John Deere side, they have available...


The engine in the Bolens was a 14 hp Tecumseh.  At that time standard Tecumseh parts were still readily available.  The problem was Bolens had a non standard ignition coil designed to better fit within the engine housing.  It was specific to that year and model. 

I did eventually find one from a former dealer, but the price was $175.00.  I put it on the engine and sold the machine before anything else went wrong.  It was an excellent machine and still looked like new when I sold it.  I just wasn't willing to have the machine set idle for weeks or months while I looked for parts.

The worst part is that in the past I owned a repair shop and did quite a bit of work on smaller Tecumseh engines.  I still have a cabinet full of parts for 3 hp to 8 hp engines.  Unfortunately when the company went out of business so did many of my parts suppliers.  I finally found a supplier that had connections to several distributors.  Unfortunately that dealer went also out of business last year.  I have to find another parts supplier for my Toro, Echo, and Stihl power equipment.


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## Janderso (Oct 5, 2021)

graham-xrf said:


> I wonder if there is such a thing as a metric pop-riveter


They make a metric Crescent wrench, why not a metric pop rivet gun?
Sorry, I couldn't resist.


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## Janderso (Oct 5, 2021)

projectnut said:


> The engine in the Bolens was a 14 hp Tecumseh.  At that time standard Tecumseh parts were still readily available.  The problem was Bolens had a non standard ignition coil designed to better fit within the engine housing.  It was specific to that year and model.
> 
> I did eventually find one from a former dealer, but the price was $175.00.  I put it on the engine and sold the machine before anything else went wrong.  It was an excellent machine and still looked like new when I sold it.  I just wasn't willing to have the machine set idle for weeks or months while I looked for parts.
> 
> The worst part is that in the past I owned a repair shop and did quite a bit of work on smaller Tecumseh engines.  I still have a cabinet full of parts for 3 hp to 8 hp engines.  Unfortunately when the company went out of business so did many of my parts suppliers.  I finally found a supplier that had connections to several distributors.  Unfortunately that dealer went also out of business last year.  I have to find another parts supplier for my Toro, Echo, and Stihl power equipment.


You would know this.
I had a Sachs-Dolmar chain saw I bought new in 1986.
It was a great saw! Lost it in the fire, but it would start first or second pull 30 years later. Very powerful-never had a problem. 
I always drained the fuel and added fresh when it was to be stored.
Someone told me it was a Stihl saw with quality components from more than one source??
What can you tell me about the brand??

Thanks,
Jeff


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## projectnut (Oct 5, 2021)

Sachs-Dolmar were out of my league.  I was mainly into the lower end engines like B&S, Tecumseh, Kohler, Power Products, Clinton, Remington, & West Bend.  My only experience with Sachs was when they started supplying engines for snowmobiles.  A salesman came by to try to get me to inventory some parts.  Since I rarely worked on them and the parts were out of this world expensive I passed.

My experience with Stihl is limited.  I only have a few pieces, and they have been acquired in the last 5 years or so.  I finally got tired of continually repairing the old junk and upgraded


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## rabler (Oct 5, 2021)

In the same general category of do it regardless, moving the air compressor to a cubby on the outside of the shop is now on my list.  Wife is tired of it drowning out her audiobooks through her headset while she’s working out there.


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## matthewsx (Oct 6, 2021)

The shop I ran from 2009 to 2014 was Briggs, Echo, Tanaka, and many others. I knew it was a lost cause when the Sthil rep gave the local dealership to the hardware store just after I built a new 2400 sq ft shop so I could make the entire back of my other 2400 sq ft building into showroom space for you know who.

I digress, saw many a mower come through my doors and often found myself telling the prospective customer "that's your project". I was more than willing to offer advice or even special order parts, but there's a point where fixing costs more than replacement  and I didn't want folks in our small town saying I ripped them off on a repair regardless if it was the actual cost of doing it.

Don's diss pop-rivets though, I still have a small stash of Monel rivets left over from when my dad built his airplane. If you can't get behind something to buck a regular rivet there's few better alternatives.

John


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## graham-xrf (Oct 6, 2021)

rabler said:


> In the same general category of do it regardless, moving the air compressor to a cubby on the outside of the shop is now on my list.  Wife is tired of it drowning out her audiobooks through her headset while she’s working out there.


You may have to do more than just move it outside. It may pay to put some design thought into deflecting and/or absorbing the sound.
I am also into this issue, and I have been scheming for weeks. I also plan not to have the compressor inside the shop using up space and making noise. One can get "quieter" compressors which inevitably are lower power, and possibly shorter life. If you need the odd squirt of air to blow stuff clean, the needs are different to if you want to have even a small shot blast cabinet, want to go spray painting, or plasma cutting.

I have researched the various air compressor types. For me, it was a choice between oil-less types, and the more traditional kind which need various oil and water removal stages. They have the benefit of much longer life and less maintenance than the oil-less sort, and, of course, they have the higher CFM flow capability, but are noisier.

There are a whole bunch of YT videos on compressor noise reduction boxes, and there is a lot to be gained by getting ideas from them. If you look at the one linked here, which is about why the guy does not recommend going this route because of the time and effort involved to get an adequate sound reduction, you get the real deal.

If you don't already know, a change in noise power of 3dB represents a doubling, or halving. It is a logarithmic scale of ratios. Our ears noise perception is also logarithmic, which is why to hear equal increments of noise change needs a doubling, and re-doubling. A reduction of -15dB is making 0.0316 of what it was previously. Down to 3% sounds impressive, but if the compressor was 90dB to begin with, the new 75dB will still be louder than people speaking. Here is where you can place a value judgement on how much a given dB noise is worth vs lower flow and air cleaning/drying kit. If the end noise is at 50dB level, you will be hearing other stuff like the birds outside

By all means, evict the compressor, but be prepared to do a bit more. I will be wanting perhaps 50 Litres tank, and up to 8 or more CFM flow.
Anyways, if you haven't already, have a look at a few videos from our favourite information source. You will see the links anyway.

I know he says "don't do it", but I am into "do it regardless", and my design will have two fans, and a different method of sound trap internal surfaces, and the machine will be suspended on bungees. In the end, I can forcibly shut the thing up, even if it's in a "box within a box"!

*Do not build a sound insulated enclosure for your noisy air compressor!*


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## rabler (Oct 6, 2021)

graham-xrf said:


> You may have to do more than just move it outside.


Thanks for the suggestions.  I've done video conference room technology at one stint in my life.  The audio portion of the design was always more comlicated than the video, so I have a pretty good idea of acoustics and noise power.  My wife usually wears over the ear headsets when working in the shop.  She likes to refinish furniture.  Problem is her workbench is right next to the compressor.  That proximity is the killer.  If she doesn't have to rewind her audio book every time the compressor runs, she'll be happy.  The challenge is not the continuous noise of the compressor, but the cycling.  Fortunately her headset provides about 15 - 20dB of attenuation to outside sound, so that makes the problem much more feasible.  I too aften wear a headset, part of my PPE, whether in the shop, or out working with farm equipment.

We already have a suitable concrete pad behind the shop for the air compressor, isolated from the shop pad.  It is right behind the current compressor location. I need to frame in an enclosure, and run the power and air line straight out through the wall.  There is a significant difference between boxing in a compressor or moving it to a cubby outside that only shares one wall. Fiberglass insulation on the inside of that enclosure will do a pretty good job of absorbing sound, as would shag carpet.  On my list is also a muffler box for the intake, which is the source of much of the noise.  While that alone wouldn't suppress the sound enough, the combination certainly will.

It is a 60 gallon tank, don't remember the CFM rating.  But there is also a safety factor in having that tank external to the workspace.

Obviously we put the pad in some time ago with this in mind, there just has been other priorities.  We had to replumb the house (polybutylene piping) over the summer.  New ductless HVAC throughout the house.  Still need to rip out the carpet through much of the house.  Build a new front covered porch.  Not to mention we're building a new shop, although the woodworking and compressor problem won't be solved by that.  But if I want to enjoy shop time, it's prudent to be sure she can too.  And she will be helping with the work of moving it outside.  We work well together, met on the job.  She was involved with the video conference work too.


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## graham-xrf (Oct 6, 2021)

I have to be impressed with the amount of energy/activity going into building on your house. Mine was once like that too, building while living in it. Not so easy. When I did it, I could not get another mortgage, because I lost my job along with about 50 others, so I had to DIY a lot of it as I became self-employed. That is why it took so long, and even now, there is stuff to do. While quite a lot of fitting out my external workshop building will be DIY, it can be at my own "retired" pace, because I paid a construction firm to make the foundations and raise the blocks and basically build the main structure of it. Stuff inside the main house like "new kitchen & utility room", and upstairs en-suite bathroom are still down to me, power tools, and making it up as I go along.

I have provided a duct going across under the patio-style paving around the workshop to carry water, power, air, etc. Initially, it was fore-thought for the "coiled black pipe under E-glass" type of solar pre-heater", but it's obvious use is also to get across to an external concrete pad which can mount the compressor.

From what I know about not making a racket in the country, I can tell you that regardless of the outside enclosure, just fixing simple surfaces inside only 1/2" away from the walls, all around the noisy thing,  makes a baffle that causes pulse component of sounds to reflect back and dissipate pinging back and forth inside. You can, of course, have the normal sound insulation against the inner surfaces of the enclosure anyway, but the isolated baffles just adds -dBs to the performance. If the baffles are also covered in sound absorbing stuff, like old carpet, it works better.

Most of the "make a box" type of soundproofing projects for shop-vacs and compressors miss the trick that you have for free if you make a brick enclosure outside, that being the inability of impinging sound to shake the blocks. This is not the same thing as how efficiently sound goes through the ceramic if it is directly pinged, like whacking it with a hammer. Builders of high-end hi-fi loudspeaker enclosures will even make up (heavy!) double sided things, and fill the gaps with sand. If they cannot de-couple the sound, they make the wall unresponsive.

Probably moving it outside will go most of the way for what you want. Working on US gallons being 3.78 litres, a 60 gallon tank is at least 227 litres, which is just huge. I would be contemplating only 50 litres, or 100 litres at most. (about 26 gallons). Like you, I also have to use ear protection all the time when using power tools. If I let it get going, my tinnitus will start ringing, and it can take up to 20 minutes or more to die out.

Maybe post a picture when you have got it built.


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## rabler (Oct 6, 2021)

We ended up buying this house in a pinch, our plan was for me to work a few more years and build a house.  So there are a lot of things that need fixing to be up to our somewhat odd standards.

My current shop is all drywall walls and ceiling.  My brother in law thought I should put up metal interior walls and especially the ceiling.  Easier, yadda yadda ...   But I can't imaging working with power tools inside a completely metal walled interior building.  Might as well call it a drum.

I'm working on laying out the utility feeds to my new shop.  On the list is power, fiber optics, natural gas, water, and a compressed air line between the two shops.   Ordered the pre-terminated fiber yesterday.  Trying to get everything in hand before I start digging as I need to cross the driveway.


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