# Drilling specific angles on round stock in mill



## schemer (Aug 29, 2020)

I am going to start a new project where I need some exact angles drilled into the circumference of a piece of aluminum 2" in diameter. I understand the part of using an end mill to make a flat, or even drilling the complete hole with one. But the part I am puzzling with in my head is how to set it up for the angles. I don't want to re-tram my mill so that is out. I have a 3-way compound angle vise (https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-4-Three-Way-Precision-Angle-Vise/T10059) so that may work. But I thought maybe somebody else ran into this before and has an easier way. Like is there a simple formula where I could just shim the aluminum to the correct angle and just use my regular vise? What it the most accurate way to get and measure the angle, say 30 degrees, with what measuring tool? Should a buy an  inclinometer and if so, what would be a good one for short pieces, like 2" long?
Thanks,
schemer


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## rwm (Aug 29, 2020)

What you are describing is a sine vise.


That would work and be very precise. You put the appropriate stack of gauge blocks under it to achieve the correct angle.
This is a perfect application for a rotary table with a chuck mounted. Then you only need to find the center once. Your vise should work as long as you recenter after each change of angle. How you approach this depends on the degree of accuracy needed.
Robert


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## schemer (Aug 29, 2020)

rwm said:


> What you are describing is a sin vise.
> View attachment 335171
> 
> That would work and be very precise. You put the appropriate stack of gauge blocks under it to achieve the correct angle.
> ...



Those are usually pretty small vises. Do they come with gauge blocks? I am making a tungsten sharpener that looks like this:


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## schemer (Aug 29, 2020)

I just watched this video on setting up a sine vise. Looks easy enough but I would have to buy a nice sine vise and gauge blocks. Now I have added this to my "To BUY" list but maybe not for this project. I normally make things I could buy and it always costs more than buying it, but what fun is that?


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## schemer (Aug 29, 2020)

Ok, so I see I can afford a sine vise if I go with a 3" version with a 4"+ opening but I have a question on the gauge blocks. Amazon sells an 81 piece set but will that magically cover any angle or will feeler gauges be involved? Never have owned or used these before.
Thanks


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## Flyinfool (Aug 29, 2020)

What you want is simple.
Use a rotary table with the center line of the part on the axis of table, Have it mounted so that the axis is parallel to the table. Now to get the angle you want just move off center. You will have to do some simple trig to get the position and angle to what you need. Once set up it is just a matter ofmake a hole, turn the part the required degrees for the hole spacing and do the next hole.  Be real careful when breaking thru to the inside bore at an angle. Drills and taps do not really like cutting on just one side. You might want to put in the tapped holes before you bore the ID.

Yes you will need to spot to bigger than the thread OD with an end mill and then spot drill then finish drill and tap.


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## Flyinfool (Aug 29, 2020)

schemer said:


> Ok, so I see I can afford a sine vise if I go with a 3" version with a 4"+ opening but I have a question on the gauge blocks. Amazon sells an 81 piece set but will that magically cover any angle or will feeler gauges be involved? Never have owned or used these before.
> Thanks



Nothing magic, yes that 81 piece set will cover nearly everything from .1000 thick to 4.000 in .0001 increments.

Using the sine block will require a setup for each hole. A LOT more work than a rotary table.

But a sine block and a gauge block set are still nice to have around.


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## Bob Korves (Aug 29, 2020)

The angle needed for  your tungsten sharpener is not that critical.  You may be over thinking this.  As stated by others, a rotary table mounted vertically would certainly do the job.  Something like an angle vise would also do adequate work for that job...


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## schemer (Aug 29, 2020)

Thanks for the info Flyinfool. I think I will get the sine vise and the gauge blocks just because I can with my birthday next month.  I was thinking of drilling and tapping before boring so you confirmed that. On the rotary table, will that work on a small length part like 2" maximum length without the quill getting in the way?


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## schemer (Aug 29, 2020)

Bob Korves said:


> The angle needed for  your tungsten fastener is not that critical.  You may be over thinking this.  As stated by others, a rotary table mounted vertically would certainly do the job.  Something like an angle vise would also do adequate work for that job...
> View attachment 335174


I have a compound vise as shown in the link on the first post. I have a 10" rotary table that I have never used yet. Maybe a good time to get a hernia and try it out.  Or buy a smaller one. Initially I was more worried about achieving the angles think really simplistic like using my regular Kurt vise and some shim under one end but how to measure the angle. I just found this:









						4" PRECISION TILTING ROTARY TABLE w. 3"/65mm 3-jaw chuck Part#TTSK-100CK- NEW  | eBay
					

The TTSK series tilting rotary table can be tilted and locked from 0 - 90 degrees any angle. Ideal for machining oblique surface and holes. PRECISION TILTING ROTARY TABLE w. Clamping kit-new w. 3"/65mm 3-jaw self-centering chuck and centering adapter.



					www.ebay.com
				




Don't forget I have a birthday coming soon so I have to buy something!


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## rwm (Aug 29, 2020)

I agree with Bob that the angles are not at all critical in that application. However, I am guessing those holes are angled in 2 planes? That would complicate it a little.
I am not trying to dissuade you from your project but might I point you in another direction? Here's what I use for my tungsten grinder.

($55) https://www.harborfreight.com/120-volt-circular-saw-blade-sharpener-96687.html

If you extract the motor and diamond wheel you get this:



I then made a simple cover and a guide. With the larger wheel this works amazingly well.



It is fairly compact and does not tie up my rotary tool. Please show us your work as you proceed on whichever path you choose. 
Robert


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## Flyinfool (Aug 29, 2020)

As to if your quill will hit the table, it all depends on your setup and exactly what you have available. You may need to start with a longer piece and cut to length later in the process.

If the holes are angled in 2 planes then that complicates things a bunch. Especially if each hole is at a different angle.


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## schemer (Aug 29, 2020)

rwm said:


> I agree with Bob that the angles are not at all critical in that application. However, I am guessing those holes are angled in 2 planes? That would complicate it a little.
> I am not trying to dissuade you from your project but might I point you in another direction? Here's what I use for my tungsten grinder.
> 
> ($55) https://www.harborfreight.com/120-volt-circular-saw-blade-sharpener-96687.html
> ...



Good job on that hack. I love it! But yes on the holes being angled on 2 planes. That is so the tungsten from each of the size/angle inserts doesn't sharpen them all in the same spot on the diamond wheel. But I wouldn't worry too much if that turned out too complicated. My project started when I wrote to the guy on ebay and asked if he could make me one out of aluminum as his are all delrin which has been reported to melt in some cases (when you overheat it). He said no. But I liked his design and the Chinese already copied it and are his competition. I am not planning on all that. I was going to improve the design by having a pivoting insert holder that could be adjusted for the angle and all you would have to do is change the insert for the tungsten diameter. That was phase 2 of the project. I have some diamond wheels similar to the ones in the pic and mounted them on a bench grinder. They work fine but I was looking for more portable solution without buying a high dollar tungsten grinder. But your trick looks like it could be modified with my angled insert holder. I am going to pick up one of these and see what I can do. I am still going to work on my project too. Thanks for all the insight and info.


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## schemer (Aug 29, 2020)

Flyinfool said:


> As to if your quill will hit the table, it all depends on your setup and exactly what you have available. You may need to start with a longer piece and cut to length later in the process.
> 
> If the holes are angled in 2 planes then that complicates things a bunch. Especially if each hole is at a different angle.



Yes, the holes are at 4 different angles. The guy that makes them using CNC has a video on the process but only shows the shell and not the hole drilling. Here is why I got interested: Watch the video of the CNC linked at the bottom:









						Sale! GEN4™ Tungsten  Sharpener / Grinder Multi-Angle & Offsets TIG Welding!  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Sale! GEN4™ Tungsten  Sharpener / Grinder Multi-Angle & Offsets TIG Welding! at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


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## AGCB97 (Aug 29, 2020)

Another quicker, faster, easier, cheaper way if angles are not critical would be to use a tool makers vise clamped in the mill vise at an angle. Could even get compound angles by clamping stock in tool makers vise on an angle.

As to not wanting to re-tram mill, make yourself a dual indicator device like this. Just 2 cheap indicators are plenty good! Makes tramming easy.

Aaron


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## schemer (Aug 29, 2020)

AGCB97 said:


> Another quicker, faster, easier, cheaper way if angles are not critical would be to use a tool makers vise clamped in the mill vise at an angle. Could even get compound angles by clamping stock in tool makers vise on an angle.
> 
> As to not wanting to re-tram mill, make yourself a dual indicator device like this. Just 2 cheap indicators are plenty good! Makes tramming easy.
> 
> ...


Looks like a nice tool to make for tramming. I have seen those for sale but they were more expensive than they needed to be. My first question would be, how do you calibrate the tool to zero before using it? I must be overlooking something simple. I may have it figured out. Zero the first indicator on a spot and rotate the tool 180 and zero the second indicator?


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## AGCB97 (Aug 29, 2020)

That's it!


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## benmychree (Aug 29, 2020)

I have sharpened quite a lot of tungsten, by hand on an ordinary aluminum oxide grinding wheel, there is absolutely no need for an accurate angle, nor for fancy grinding wheels or fixtures; this is a solution in search of a problem!


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## schemer (Aug 29, 2020)

benmychree said:


> I have sharpened quite a lot of tungsten, by hand on an ordinary aluminum oxide grinding wheel, there is absolutely no need for an accurate angle, nor for fancy grinding wheels or fixtures; this is a solution in search of a problem!


I too have sharpened all my tungstens in the past and currently on a bench grinder and weld fine like that. But I have noticed some days I must get lucky and sharpen one better and it welds so much nicer so I figured consistency on my grinding is needed. Or I just need another project.


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## AGCB97 (Aug 29, 2020)

I also use a cheap Harbor Freight bench grinder with AO for grinding electrodes. That's all I use that one for. And I spin the electrode with a cordless drill.
Aaron


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## rwm (Aug 29, 2020)

I should have started my reply by saying: being a poor TIG welder I have had the experience of grinding a lot of tungsten! 
The experts will tell you that you should never use a grinding wheel that has been used on other metals. They insist you need a dedicated tungsten grinder. That is why I have one. I'm not sure that makes perfect sense to me because many times when I'm grinding the tungsten it's because it has steel or aluminum attached to it. Those metals would then contaminate the grinding wheel. How would that be any different from using a bench grinder that you also used to sharpen tools? 
Robert


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## schemer (Aug 29, 2020)

AGCB97 said:


> I also use a cheap Harbor Freight bench grinder with AO for grinding electrodes. That's all I use that one for. And I spin the electrode with a cordless drill.
> Aaron


I have a grinding wheel with a groove down the center just like that. I usually spin the electrode with my fingers but have used a pin vise and a drill too. Actually I made a prototype of a clamp-on tungsten grinder fixture some years ago where you could set any angle.  Too bad the tungsten that was contaminated didn't fit through the hole all the time.


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## schemer (Aug 29, 2020)

rwm said:


> I should have started my reply by saying: being a poor TIG welder I have had the experience of grinding a lot of tungsten!
> The experts will tell you that you should never use a grinding wheel that has been used on other metals. They insist you need a dedicated tungsten grinder. That is why I have one. I'm not sure that makes perfect sense to me because many times when I'm grinding the tungsten it's because it has steel or aluminum attached to it. Those metals would then contaminate the grinding wheel. How would that be any different from using a bench grinder that you also used to sharpen tools?
> Robert



I guess it is more important if you are welding for NASA or making nuclear reactors and your welds are being inspected. It seems to me a diamond wheel is less likely to become contaminated as an aluminum oxide wheel.  And depending on the size "blob" I cut out of the contaminant and then grind the point.


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## rwm (Aug 30, 2020)

NASA has never complained about any of my welds.
Robert


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## schemer (Aug 30, 2020)

rwm said:


> NASA has never complained about any of my welds.
> Robert



Mine either.


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## schemer (Sep 4, 2020)

Stumbled across this in my travels and ordered one. It is exactly the best of both worlds for my project (and many others), and the price was really good.


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## rwm (Sep 5, 2020)

I have wondered about the fit and finish of those little dividing heads. Please let us know how that works for you and how the quality is.
Robert


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## schemer (Sep 5, 2020)

rwm said:


> I have wondered about the fit and finish of those little dividing heads. Please let us know how that works for you and how the quality is.
> Robert


I did some research and there are some youtube videos out there that show how to disassemble them and clean them. They also show what, if anything to watch for or modify etc. For $223 shipped I can't go wrong from what I read, I think the most important thing is to disassemble, clean, debur and lube and all is well. Any backlash can be easily removed by adjustment. Here is a 3 part series from down under that I am referring to.


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 5, 2020)

schemer said:


> I too have sharpened all my tungstens in the past and currently on a bench grinder and weld fine like that. But I have noticed some days I must get lucky and sharpen one better and it welds so much nicer so I figured consistency on my grinding is needed.



Once you have eliminated the grind as the cause of the inconsistency, what will be left to blame it on? Some things are better left unexamined.


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## schemer (Sep 6, 2020)

MrWhoopee said:


> Once you have eliminated the grind as the cause of the inconsistency, what will be left to blame it on? Some things are better left unexamined.



Tough crowd here.  I sometimes wish I wouldn't have even posted this except I know welders like to mess around with each other. I have welded many times with a blob on my tungsten as I didn't want to sharpen it and the weld was perfectly fine. But, my birthday is in a few weeks and I was thinking about buying a bass guitar. But I thought twice and decided to buy a tool instead. This tool will help with many projects. My welding will either be the same (perfectly fine) or better after I spend the time to play with the sharpening more. I watched videos of all the different points and if you know how to weld it really doesn't matter all that much. I have seen a video where the guy doesn't even sharpen a new tungsten and still welds ok. Anyway, I am making the sharpener and nobody is going to talk me out of it! 
Carry on...


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## schemer (Sep 12, 2020)

rwm said:


> I have wondered about the fit and finish of those little dividing heads. Please let us know how that works for you and how the quality is.
> Robert


Got my unit and I am extremely happy with it. I don't even think I am going to disassemble it first as by the looks of it, they actually are cleaning and lubing them properly. Just a thin light oil and inside a plastic bag. I could find any dirty oil, grease, or grinding sludge and I looked it over really close. The seller had these listed with the word "NEWEST" at the end of the title description so maybe that means they cleaned up their act over the years. No backlash. I cranked it around and no tight spots. I didn't check it with an indicator yet but based on what I see/know, any issues there are easily fixed. Well worth the money. Very happy.


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