# How much better are Niagra or Kodiak brand end mills?



## Pcmaker (Apr 17, 2019)

I have end mills I bought from Amazon. HSS set and a couple of 3/8" carbide end mills. I'm thinking of spending some money on brand names like Niagara or Kodiak. Are they that much better? They're a lot more expensive than the ones I have. 

Also, what are the most common sizes I should get? Largest one I have is 1/2" and it's a roughing end mill. I'm thinking of getting a 3/4", would that be even better for roughing? I do a lot of work on hardened steel since I like to modify existing tools. Do I go with Cobalt or Carbide?


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## Shootymacshootface (Apr 17, 2019)

For hardend steel and unknown metals you really need at least a couple of good carbide endmills. Also you want both 2 and 4 flute endmills in your tooling arsenal.


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## Technical Ted (Apr 17, 2019)

I suggest you keep your eye on Craig's List. I have built up a large collection of quality HSS and carbide end mills (made in USA) from there. Not sure how commonly they come along in your area, but it doesn't hurt to keep an eye out for when they do.

Ted


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## Pcmaker (Apr 17, 2019)

I always check Craigslist and they never come up on there. You would think there'd be a lot in Las Vegas, but nope.

I'm leaning towards using 3/4" or 1/2" carbide end mill as my general use type and size. I figure it'd be easy to machine with a larger diameter end mill. Maybe i'll be able to take off more per pass due to the rigidity.


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## projectnut (Apr 17, 2019)

I have no idea what brand end mills you bought from Amazon, but I can tell you from my experience the American made ones have been far better than the Asian imports.  Only 1 time did I intentionally buy some off shore tooling and it was a disaster.  I bought a box of 3/8" ball nose end mills for a special job.  They bounced around like they were made out of rubber rather than do any cutting.  I returned them and replaced them with Niagara brand.  The Niagara ones worked as they should and the job was completed on time.

I don't exclusively use Niagara, but I do try to stick to known brands, made in the USA whenever possible.  There are close to 1,000 end mills in the cabinets.  A quick look revealed the following brands: Union, Cleveland, Morse, Niagara, Nachi, FastCut, RapidKut, Putnam, Beloit Regal, National, DoAll,  Acculead, Melin, TRW, Weldon, and Hanita.  They are all good brands and there are undoubtedly others.  I don't know which of these brands still exist, but I'm sure even if the companies are gone there is still some new tooling on the shelves.

The most prolific brands seem to be FastCut, RapidKut, and Melin.  That's most likely because they were the brands handled by our local supplier.   As for sizes I have 1/16" to 2 1/2".  Most of the larger sizes were acquired for specific jobs.  I would guess less than 10% are carbide.  Like the larger size mills I only buy carbide for special jobs.

 For a beginner I would suggest 1/8" to 3/4" by 1/16", if you have a mill powerful enough to handle the larger sizes.  If you have a small machine or a mill/drill I would only go to 1/2"


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## Technical Ted (Apr 17, 2019)

I have a bunch of carbide end mills but seldom use them. From my experience, you need a very rigid setup to run these and get good life out of them. They chip very easily and they are not as forgiving in every day use as HSS end mills are. I do use them on hard materials though... but I'm very careful in their use.

My go to are good, ole made in USA HSS cutters like some of the brands mentioned above by projectnut. It's hard to go wrong with them. 

YMMV,
Ted


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## Buffalo21 (Apr 17, 2019)

Is kodiak as manufacturer or a retailer??, most of the part numbers match those of carbide manufacturer, TitanUSA, that are made in Massachusetts. I’ve used the Titan products for years, with great results.


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## pontiac428 (Apr 17, 2019)

I pick up used end mills and sharpen them on a Deckel clone.  Most of what I have is Niagra, and they cost me $0.50-$1.00 a piece.  eBay is a good place to watch for lots of end mills.  I don't have the patience for China metal anymore.


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## ThinWoodsman (Apr 17, 2019)

I bought a bunch of non-name import end mills from places like LMS, Amazon. For the most part they're OK, but when you get a bad one you know it. Chip easily, bendy as pointed out above - and I even had one snap taking a deep side cut into aluminum.

So I've been replacing the import ones with Niagras, which when done on a piecemeal basis isn't so bad. I don't regret buying the import ones - they didn't cost very much, they saved me from ruining a good cutter while learning, and hey maybe I can turn that shank into a lathe tool.


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## wildo (Apr 17, 2019)

I have a pretty sizable collection (I think? For a hobbyist?) of Kodiak/Titan USA end mills. And I also have a couple no name (Accurite, Harbor Freight, etc) end mills. Without question, my Kodiak stuff [especially the ZrN coated, high flute, aluminum cutters] give me a much better finish and cut with significantly less effort. Yes, they are easy to chip if you do something dumb, but I'm still learning what "something dumb" actually means. I will continue to buy them for sure.

I have received parts labeled Titan USA when ordering direct from Kodiak, so they might be a reseller of sorts- not sure. The "sets" they sell are particularly great, I think. They help me stay organized; they group my end mills by type; and they keep them safe from banging into each other.

[EDIT]- I will note that the harbor freight set as a whole cost me less than a single 3/4" end mill from any name brand. I've really only used the 3/4" ones (two flute/four flute) in the set and they have worked surprisingly well. Definitely don't give me the surface finish of the branded end mills, but for $75 less 20% or whatever, I think they were a great buy. Certainly if you have a need for a 3/4" end mill.


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## Buffalo21 (Apr 17, 2019)

I have about 300-400 of the TitanUSA carbide end mills, from 1/8” to 3/4”, in numerous sizes, flute configurations, coatings and lengths, I’m very happy with them. Most of my HSS end mills are part of the 1000 end mills I bought, during the Korean End Mill Bonanza (that a sold off about 75%), super high quality, meant to be sold as a house brand, they came in sleeves, with only size and Made in Korea markings. The Niagara I’ve used have been excellent, Harbor Freight set I got as a gift, where real hit and miss, some worked fine, some would not cut butter.


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## wildo (Apr 17, 2019)

Buffalo21 said:


> I have about 300-400 of the TitanUSA carbide end mills, from 1/8” to 3/4”, in numerous sizes, flute configurations, coatings and lengths



OK, I stand corrected. I have a _very small _collection of end mills.


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## mmcmdl (Apr 17, 2019)

wildo said:


> OK, I stand corrected. I have a _very small _collection of end mills.



 Very very small . Just kidding . I have 1000s if not 10s of thousands of end mills . All USA made other than some Nachis . I have to bring them to work because they only have a Chinese set here that won't cut butter . As a machinist by trade I only use top quality tools , if I had to buy these tools for a hobby , maybe not so . Top quality =Top $$$ .


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## Pcmaker (Apr 17, 2019)

I have a precision matthews PM25MV. I guess my machine isn't ridgid enough or big enough to be using 3/4" end mills?


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## tweinke (Apr 17, 2019)

Im thinking 3/4" might be at the big end of effective use for a PM-25 , but I could be wrong.


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## wildo (Apr 17, 2019)

The mention of the 3/4" end mill was really just to indicate that if you just need to get the job done, the Harbor Freight set will be just fine. I would think 3/4" is definitely pushing it for the PM25MV, most likely.


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## Pcmaker (Apr 18, 2019)

I'll just stick with the 1/2" end mill, then.


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## Buffalo21 (Apr 18, 2019)

The Kodiak cutting tool office is about 2 miles from my house, it’s a office in a micro strip mall, wedged between a CPA and an insurance office (or is it a dentist office and a nail parlor), I’ve bought from them, nice people, but mostly I order from the TitanUSA rep directly.


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## BGHansen (Apr 19, 2019)

I started with end mills from Enco 35 years ago. They worked fine in CRS and aluminum.  I picked up around 600 new Niagra end mills at a closed shop and use them exclusively.  They do seem to hold up better,  but for the price you may want to try an import first.  Most of us aren't running production shops and have more time than money.

Bruce


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## Pcmaker (Apr 19, 2019)

Are larger end mills less susceptible to breaking/chipping? I guess I'll stick to cobalt end mills for now, I don't want to chip carbide since they're expensive and they break easier from what I've read.


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## martik777 (Apr 20, 2019)

I re-sharpen the end flutes on my larger 3/8+ HSS USA made end mills, will ruin the center cutting ability but they will still work ok.

The reconditioned carbide ones on ebay I've bought are good as new.

These carbide roughing end mills work very well too:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/16m...25-4658-be2a-f7e382ff8a15&transAbTest=ae803_3


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## Technical Ted (Apr 20, 2019)

Pcmaker said:


> Are larger end mills less susceptible to breaking/chipping?



That's hard to say... larger are stiffer and the corners are more likely to chip in my experience, especially from banging/hitting things. Smaller are more flexible and turning at a much faster speed and the corners don't seem to chip as much, but a mishap with them will snap them off.

If you are careful with quality HSS cutters they will last a long time. Use the proper speeds and feeds based on the quality of the cutter, the material being cut, cutting fluid used (if any), setup rigidity, depth of cut, etc. etc. 

Ted


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## ddickey (Apr 20, 2019)

In my experience square end mills have more of a tendency to chip. Stick with radiused end mills.


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## projectnut (Apr 21, 2019)

I believe the radiused corner end mills are referred to as Bull Nose.  I do have a number of them and they do a good job for most things.  However they are don't do a very good job when cutting slots, especially keyway slots.


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