# Holding a cylinder vertically for milling



## SilverWorker

Hi, I'm new to machining and I'm trying to hold steel drill rod (diameter between 1/4 inch and 1 inch) vertically for machining the ends to make embossing dies. The machining will be done with very small end mills (about 1mm diameter) so there is not a lot of force on the workpiece. I'm wondering what you would recommend to hold these cylinders? I don't currently have any tools for holding them (or even know what tools to use!) beside some nuts and bolts. I do have a small table top TAIG mill and lathe, so I can face the ends of the drill rod as well as machine aluminum fixtures. Any advice is appreciated! Thanks!


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## 7HC

SilverWorker said:


> Hi, I'm new to machining and I'm trying to hold steel drill rod (diameter between 1/4 inch and 1 inch) vertically for machining the ends to make embossing dies. The machining will be done with very small end mills (about 1mm diameter) so there is not a lot of force on the workpiece. I'm wondering what you would recommend to hold these cylinders? I don't currently have any tools for holding them (or even know what tools to use!) beside some nuts and bolts. I do have a small table top TAIG mill and lathe, so I can face the ends of the drill rod as well as machine aluminum fixtures. Any advice is appreciated! Thanks!



Hold the rod in two small 'V' blocks in the vise?

M


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## SilverWorker

Ah ha! Something like this?
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=285-2060&PMPXNO=947693&PARTPG=INLMK3
Doesn't look too hard to make something like it.


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## 7HC

SilverWorker said:


> Ah ha! Something like this?
> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=285-2060&PMPXNO=947693&PARTPG=INLMK3
> Doesn't look too hard to make something like it.



You got it, exactly what I meant! )  In fact just using one 'V' block will do the trick.

M


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## jamie76x

You can use V blocks to hold the piece ... The advantage of clamping a work piece in the v block is that you can take the block out, lay it flat, turn it 90 degrees, hold it at an angle, move it from machine to machine etc etc all without disturbing the orientation of the work in the block.

Option #2 is to make a specific rear jaw for your milling vise with 1 or more V cut into it to hold at a right angle. If this is a job you will do often and you only have to hold the pieces one way and in one machine, this works great.


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## Bill C.

SilverWorker said:


> Hi, I'm new to machining and I'm trying to hold steel drill rod (diameter between 1/4 inch and 1 inch) vertically for machining the ends to make embossing dies. The machining will be done with very small end mills (about 1mm diameter) so there is not a lot of force on the workpiece. I'm wondering what you would recommend to hold these cylinders? I don't currently have any tools for holding them (or even know what tools to use!) beside some nuts and bolts. I do have a small table top TAIG mill and lathe, so I can face the ends of the drill rod as well as machine aluminum fixtures. Any advice is appreciated! Thanks!



Some tool-maker vises have V slots built in their jaws.  If you use V blocks you place them against the fixed end of the vise.  You probably need a spacer to hold the 1/4" dia. stock.  Good Luck


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## 4GSR

I have a 3-jaw chuck dedicated to holding round stock in the mill.  I have several parts I build that have deep end slots and this is the only way you can hold the part without it getting away from you.  I just mount the chuck flat down to the mill table.


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## george wilson

NO!! NOT like the Enco pictures!!!! Those are laminated V blocks. They have stacked layers of steel and aluminum. They are for setting on top of a magnetic chuck. The magnetic flux is carried up through the laminations to hold a piece in the V groove while it is being ground in a surface grinder. Get SOLID STEEL V blocks. Those laminated ones would fall apart if used in the vise and subjected to the much more severe pressure of the vise. Their layers are only riveted together as you can see in the pictures.


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## churchjw

george wilson said:


> NO!! NOT like the Enco pictures!!!! Those are laminated V blocks. They have stacked layers of steel and aluminum. They are for setting on top of a magnetic chuck. The magnetic flux is carried up through the laminations to hold a piece in the V groove while it is being ground in a surface grinder. Get SOLID STEEL V blocks. Those laminated ones would fall apart if used in the vise and subjected to the much more severe pressure of the vise. Their layers are only riveted together as you can see in the pictures.




Thanks for saying that George.  I have a set of these I use on my mag chuck with my surface grinder and I have wondered if its ok to use them in a regular vise. One of those things where you just grab any v block to get the job done.  Now I know not to do that.

Jeff


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## TomS

churchjw said:


> Thanks for saying that George.  I have a set of these I use on my mag chuck with my surface grinder and I have wondered if its ok to use them in a regular vise. One of those things where you just grab any v block to get the job done.  Now I know not to do that.
> 
> Jeff



You could also drill and ream a set of soft jaws to hold round stock.  First install your soft jaws and then tighten them with a piece of shim stock, say .005" but most any thickness will work, between the jaws.  Center the spindle directly over the jaws where they clamp together and drill and ream a hole the size of the material you are trying to hold.  Remove the shim stock and you are ready to go.  You can drill and ream as many holes as you want to hold multiple pieces.

Tom S


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## bjmh46

SilverWorker said:


> Hi, I'm new to machining and I'm trying to hold steel drill rod (diameter between 1/4 inch and 1 inch) vertically for machining the ends to make embossing dies. The machining will be done with very small end mills (about 1mm diameter) so there is not a lot of force on the workpiece. I'm wondering what you would recommend to hold these cylinders? I don't currently have any tools for holding them (or even know what tools to use!) beside some nuts and bolts. I do have a small table top TAIG mill and lathe, so I can face the ends of the drill rod as well as machine aluminum fixtures. Any advice is appreciated! Thanks!




Hey Silverworker,

Here's a fixture I made to do exactly what you are describing.  Just a squared up hunk of 1 x 2 6061 T6, with a couple of v-grooves, and tapped holes.  The clamp strap fits both v-grooves.  The end  v groove is pretty close dead center of the width, and marked with the dimension.  The spherical washers are a really nice touch, but they aren't really necessary. Has come in really handy for small work many, many times!

Regards,
Bob


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## 7HC

george wilson said:


> NO!! NOT like the Enco pictures!!!! Those are laminated V blocks. They have stacked layers of steel and aluminum. They are for setting on top of a magnetic chuck. The magnetic flux is carried up through the laminations to hold a piece in the V groove while it is being ground in a surface grinder. Get SOLID STEEL V blocks. Those laminated ones would fall apart if used in the vise and subjected to the much more severe pressure of the vise. Their layers are only riveted together as you can see in the pictures.



I rather think that he was posting a picture to illustrate 'V' blocks, rather than specifically selecting those for use with a magnetic chuck.

And of course, for his purposes regular steel 'V' blocks would be much cheaper too.

M


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## george wilson

It is better to be more exact in pictures or words when making suggestions to newbies. He can't read someone's mind. churchjw has admitted he did not know better than to use those blocks in a vise. That should illustrate my point about being more exact. It's just as easy to link to the correct tooling as it is to link to incorrect. Perhaps the person who replied didn't know any better?

Good jig shown above!

Machining is,after all,an exacting occupation.


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## jmhoying

bjmh46 said:


> Hey Silverworker,
> 
> Here's a fixture I made to do exactly what you are describing.  Just a squared up hunk of 1 x 2 6061 T6, with a couple of v-grooves, and tapped holes.  The clamp strap fits both v-grooves.  The end  v groove is pretty close dead center of the width, and marked with the dimension.  The spherical washers are a really nice touch, but they aren't really necessary. Has come in really handy for small work many, many times!
> 
> Regards,
> Bob



That's another item on my list of things to make!  Thanks for posting the photos of this useful accessory.
Jack


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## 12bolts

bjmh46 said:


> ....The spherical washers are a really nice touch, ....



Bob, Is there some detail I cant see in the picture? Are you referring to the thick washers? What makes them "spherical"?

Cheers Phil


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## george wilson

Spherical washers have a hemispherically concave side so they can tilt to fit in a position that is not square with the hole the bolt is in. I can't really say they were  necessary in this application.


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## bjmh46

george wilson said:


> Spherical washers have a hemispherically concave side so they can tilt to fit in a position that is not square with the hole the bolt is in. I can't really say they were  necessary in this application.



George hit it right on.  I'll add that each pair consists of a concave hardened washer, and a mating convex hardened washer, allowing for off axis clamping without bending. The advantage is you don't need to be anal about equally tightening the screws so that the clamp strap is parallel to the body of the fixture.  That said, I still tend to be anal!

Bob


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## george wilson

Well,if you wanted to be REALLY anal,you could use 2 real small sprockets and a teeny chain between the 2 screws to keep them closing parallel!!


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## Jimsehr

You can buy a cheap drill press vice from Enco tools , that has a v slot built into the vice jaws to hold round parts horizontal or vertical.

jimsehr


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