# Indexable lathe tooling recommendations?



## Finster (Apr 17, 2017)

Seems like I'm buying a lot of tooling lately. I guess I have a problem?  I want to get a good set of lathe tooling. Shars and anything else made in China is OUT on this one. I want a good set. I have a China set that came with my old Sheldon and it's JUNK. I don't want to end up with more junk. I wanted to maybe find a Kennametal set but I can't go any higher than a .5" shank. Can anyone recommend a good brand name made somewhere in the Western culture that carries .5" shanks?


----------



## mikey (Apr 17, 2017)

Two makers that come to mind are Seco and Iscar. Both make outstanding tooling. Toolmex isn't bad, either. Sandvik, Valenite, Mitsubishi are also very good but generally more expensive. I'm sure there are others but these are all holders I've used or owned so I have personal knowledge of them. I prefer Seco and Iscar, myself.


----------



## darkzero (Apr 17, 2017)

That depends on what style inserts you want to use. For 1/2" shank it's much more limted on what's available compared to larger sizes for the quality stuff. For example you will find very little for negative inserts, probably only TNMG.

It gets much better with 5/8" & 3/4" shanks. You can always mill down shanks to fit as well.

When I used 1/2" shanks most of mine were made by Dorian. I'm using 5/8" shanks now & I'm still using mostly Dorian. With the quality tooling you won't find sets though like you see with the China offerings.

What style inserts are you interested in?


----------



## Finster (Apr 17, 2017)

darkzero said:


> That depends on what style inserts you want to use. For 1/2" shank it's much more limted on what's available compared to larger sizes for the quality stuff. For example you will find very little for negative inserts, probably only TNMG.
> 
> *It gets much better with 5/8" & 3/4" shanks. You can always mill down shanks to fit as well.*
> 
> ...



Yea, I thought of milling them down. That's just hard for me to do after spending a good bit of money on quality tooling. It just seems wrong.  I'm not sure on the inserts. I'm not an insert authority by any means. I was thinking diamond or triangle just because it seems the most versatile and you get more cutting edges so it's a bit economical also.


----------



## darkzero (Apr 17, 2017)

Finster said:


> Yea, I thought of milling them down. That's just hard for me to do after spending a good bit of money on quality tooling. It just seems wrong.  I'm not sure on the inserts. I'm not an insert authority by any means. I was thinking diamond or triangle just because it seems the most versatile and you get more cutting edges so it's a bit economical also.



I hear ya, although many people do it, I'm not a fan of milling down tool shanks. But I have on some cheaper ones & used ones. The ones I bought new were purchased in the size I needed.

Diamond & triangle are most common & they perform well.

For diamond there is 85°(C), 55°(D), & 35°(V). I personally like 85° & 55°. I don't have a need for 35°, not yet anyway.

For C diamond CCMT/CCGT inserts are very common. The holders are SCLCR for RH & SCLCL for LH. You can easily find these in 1/2" shanks as well as boring bars.

For D diamond DCMT/DCGT the holders are SDUCR/L, also available in 1/2" shanks & boring bars.

For triangle inserts there are many more holders than the ones above for these holders that orient the position of the insert for different operations. Search TCMT holder to see all the different ones.

Also pay attention to the insert size for 1/2" shanks. They come in 21.5_ (1/4" IC) & 32.5_ (3/8" IC) sizes. I prefer the 3/8" inscribed circle size but one reason to go with the smaller 1/4" IC insert is if you use boring bars that take the same size, you can use the same inserts for your turning tools & boring bars.

BTW the inserts I mentioned above are all positive inserts. Not sure what size lathe you have but with 1/2" shanks you get much better reults using positives than negatives.

Also check out latheinserts.com. Curtis is very knowledgeable & used to work for Kennametal. He doesn't list the higher end brands on his site but his stuff is usually always of good quality. Last I remember most of the tool holders he was supplying are Toolmex (TMX).


----------



## Doubleeboy (Apr 17, 2017)

Finster said:


> Seems like I'm buying a lot of tooling lately. I guess I have a problem?  I want to get a good set of lathe tooling. Shars and anything else made in China is OUT on this one. I want a good set. I have a China set that came with my old Sheldon and it's JUNK. I don't want to end up with more junk. I wanted to maybe find a Kennametal set but I can't go any higher than a .5" shank. Can anyone recommend a good brand name made somewhere in the Western culture that carries .5" shanks?[/QUOTE!
> 
> Kennemetal might as well change there name to KennaKrap.  I sent back two SCLCR toolholders , inserts would not fit pocket, beauty machining just done incorrectly.  BTW they make stuff all over in second and third world countries now.  My holders were made in Bulgaria.  Might as well have gotten them from China on ebay for 20 cents on the dollar.


----------



## kd4gij (Apr 17, 2017)

A picture of what you have would be a big help. Also what tool post do you have.


----------



## Finster (Apr 18, 2017)

Just a 10" Sheldon circa late 1940's I believe, I have a Chinese wedge quick change tool post.  It works well as far as rigidity. I could go with a .375 shank. It works but I want the rigidity of the larger shank .5 is as big as I can go without milling. .5" also just makes my center height with a few thou for tweaking.


----------



## Finster (Apr 18, 2017)

I'm looking at this set:
http://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/bostar1shint.html
I found them really cheap here. Most places want over $200 for these.  They are supposed to be USA made but I know nothing of the name. I also believe the picture is wrong. This set in .5" should be model number BICT-8 Does anyone have experience with these?


     There is also a "Precision Matthews" set that looks nice. I think this is also USA made, but not sure. This looks super nice. To nice for the price. Anyone know anything about this tooling?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMPLETE-CARBIDE-CUTTING-TURNING-TOOL-SET-METAL-LATHE-SIZED-FOR-AXA-CCGT-CCMT/232277702664?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=40130&meid=e1430fce6a8c4b64a88e2a352e1dd45b&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=332185995464


----------



## bss1 (Apr 18, 2017)

Several of us have the same Precision Mathews set in BXA size. I think it is made in China. Nevertheless, the quality seems acceptable and for the price they are a good value. There is a recent thread on this specific set.


----------



## mikey (Apr 18, 2017)

I own tools that use the same insert designations as both of those sets. Borite is a quality tool maker but I much prefer the SCLCX tools that use positive rake inserts. You will only use a few of the tools in the set and I think it is better and probably cheaper to buy quality versions of the SCLCR and SCLCL tool holders. The boring bars are steel and will work well for bore depths within their extension capabilities.


----------



## ronboult (Apr 18, 2017)

Finster
 I only have two types of insert lathe tools
Some ISCAR and many Chinese bought through Alliexpress.
All my tooling is SCLR/L  ( CCMT, CCGT insets ) Turning and Boring or SCMT inserts  for chamfering ( Not sure of the holder designation)
My observations 
If I examine the Iscar against the Chinese with a microscope can I tell  a difference - Maybe. The Iscar is finished very well and the insert pocket cradles the insert without any slop.
With regard to the Chinese tool holders the surface finish is different- maybe not be so durable, but the insert pockets are well machined with flat bottoms and close tolerances. They cradle the insert just the same. I have so far had no problems with the supplied insert screws but have read of others complaints.

When using either on the lathe without someone telling me which I was using I can't tell the difference. The difference is in my hip pocket. Buying Chinese has allowed me to purchase all the tool holders I require so I have a seperate holder for all the different Inserts I use - even different nose radii on the inserts. No way could I do this using Iscar or equivalent Tool holders .
But I am only a hobby machinist !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ron


----------



## kd4gij (Apr 19, 2017)

You can get over size tool holders for your tool post that use 5/8 shank tools. That would open up options.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121595308361?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


----------



## Finster (Apr 19, 2017)

kd4gij said:


> You can get over size tool holders for your tool post that use 5/8 shank tools. That would open up options.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/121595308361?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
> 
> View attachment 231777


I don't think that would work for my setup. Unless the bottom of the tool holder is not as thick as the .5" holder. With a .5" tool in the holder. I am only a few thousands below center. .625 would put me way above unless I milled the bottom of the holder which I could do with a cheap China model. I believe my lathe was really set up for .375" tooling but I can make .5" work and like it better.


----------



## fradish (Apr 19, 2017)

Finister, I have that PM set and I really like it.  It comes with 20 inserts and the 2 of the holders
allow you to utilize the 2 corners of the insert that would normally be unused.

The CCGT inserts really leave a nice surface finish.


----------



## Finster (Apr 19, 2017)

fradish said:


> Finister, I have that PM set and I really like it.  It comes with 20 inserts and the 2 of the holders
> allow you to utilize the 2 corners of the insert that would normally be unused.
> 
> The CCGT inserts really leave a nice surface finish.


Yea, I liked that about it also. I gave them a call and it's confirmed, that set is made in China. I'm pondering it but I would really like to buy American for this. I may just bite the bullet and buy one piece at a time as I can afford it. I'm still kicking around the idea of this set though. How are the boring bars that come with it Fradish?


----------



## kd4gij (Apr 19, 2017)

Finster said:


> I don't think that would work for my setup. Unless the bottom of the tool holder is not as thick as the .5" holder. With a .5" tool in the holder. I am only a few thousands below center. .625 would put me way above unless I milled the bottom of the holder which I could do with a cheap China model. I believe my lathe was really set up for .375" tooling but I can make .5" work and like it better.




 Mine the cutting height is the same as my 1/2" tools another words the 1/8" is removed from the bottom where the tool sets.


----------



## Finster (Apr 19, 2017)

kd4gij said:


> Mine the cutting height is the same as my 1/2" tools another words the 1/8" is removed from the bottom where the tool sets.


Well gee, thanks for tossing in another variable to ponder!  Now I might have to get both sizes. Man my wife is going to hate you!


----------



## fradish (Apr 19, 2017)

I haven't used the boring bars yet, but they look nice, well machined.


----------



## kd4gij (Apr 19, 2017)

Other than maybe looks I think you would be hard pressed to find a difference in this set and the one in your link. You can always get better inserts.
http://www.shars.com/products/index...olders/1-2-indexable-carbide-turning-tool-set


----------



## Finster (Apr 19, 2017)

kd4gij said:


> Other than maybe looks I think you would be hard pressed to find a difference in this set and the one in your link. You can always get better inserts.
> http://www.shars.com/products/index...olders/1-2-indexable-carbide-turning-tool-set


That's the set I have now. Not as nice of a case but the same set. One thing I did not realize in my original post is that I was using the China inserts. They were undersized for the tool. I switched to regular standard inserts and did not have a problem after that. The China inserts (I assume came with the set) were quite a bit smaller than the tooling cutout. Probably 10 thou or so. They were moving! I put a real insert in and they fit snugly. I haven't had a problem since. Should have guessed! Good Grief!


----------

