# The big shop electrical upgrades thread [long, 56 pics]



## FliesLikeABrick (Feb 1, 2022)

This post continues into the first 2 replies due to per-post picture limits.  All pictures are thumbnails but higher-resolution is available if you click the thumbnail.

Our shop building was put in place by the previous owners of our house shortly after they purchased, around 2000-2001. The house is fairly small, and one of the coupleship was a musician -- teacher/instructor, performer with routine travels, some writing and recording at home, etc. They built the shop, a 48x60 pole barn, with the intention of finishing a substantial portion of the footprint as a music studio and office space.

You can see my other thread at https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/set-up-a-wood-shop-h-m-sacrilege.97651/ regarding building a woodshop in part of the space that they had finished for office and music-oriented use.

In general, the building was lacking in electrical infrastructure.  Facts:

The building has its own 200A split-phase meter/service
The main panel is in the garage
The only outlet in the garage was a duplex outlet right next to the panel, 4' off the ground
In the garage (roughly 20x30), there were only 2 fluorescent fixtures (13' ceiling), insufficient lighting for a garage
There were no outlets on the exterior of the building
In the semi-finished hallway there are 2 strings of  duplex outlets on 15a breakers, fed by the main panel via 12/2 romex along the ceiling
Reasonable fluorescent lighting in the hallway
Insufficient lighting in the finished space (where the woodshop was built) - 2 fluorescent fixtures for a 40x25 ft room

The more important facts...

In the back room which I was setting up as the metal  shop, there were zero outlets and zero lights
I had been surviving with my workbench which had a small task light and some outlets mounted on it
The bench was in turn fed via SO cable from an outlet in the hallway
Some overhead lights I mounted were just plugged into the bench when I wanted them
Everything else in the room plugged into the bench
Prior to having power, there were no machines except a tabletop drill press, a shopvac, and a tripod light in the back shop... this is what any task back there looked like.






The initial goals of the electrical upgrade project, which I had roughly sketched out with a floorplan of the building:

Install a 100A subpanel in the back/metal shop for mechanical/noisy electrical loads in that room and the back wall of the garage
Design a conduit system that is versatile for future expansions/changes, as machinery and benches are added or moved around
Conduit/etc should be mounted above the doors and windows, to allow for straight/easy wire pulls.  Ideally step-stool height instead of 6-12ft ladder height for access/work
Mount the main overhead conduit/wireway on unistrut that can be used to mount other systems such as compressed air
General-purpose quad boxes on GFCI
L14-20 twist-lock receptacles for bench- and wall-mounted power strips, so that 120v and 240v are both available; and benches/strips can be moved
Improve lighting everywhere
Additional enhancements for computer equipment, including another 100A subpanel to keep computer hardware from seeing voltage drop that would be seen if the metal shop subpanel was shared (with possible high load/inrush currents, etc)
Everything safe and to code.

Those are the general goals.  There were more ideas, and changes along the way - which will be explained as we go through the project below.


To start, I estimated the length and quantity of major materials needed.  Specifically, things I knew I could not just pop out and buy in retail; or things I could buy in bulk now to save effort and/or money:

170ft of 4x4 wireway/wire trough (17x 10ft sticks), and couplers/elbows for the same
2 Square D QO 100A main-breaker subpanels; with ground bars and covers for the same.  One panel for the metal shop covered in this post, another panel for computer/resistive loads later on.
100A breakers for the main panel (also a QO panel)
Various single-pole and double-pole breakers for the circuits I anticipated installing
A bundle each of 1/2 and 3/4 EMT conduit; bundle of unistrut
175ft of 2/0, 2/0, 2/0, 1awg Al SER cable for the subpanel feeds
A case each  of Raco 4" square junction boxes and  outlet boxes (with 1/2 and 3/4 knockouts)

This first (only) delivery was about $2500 from a local electrical supply house






Around the time this was all delivered, we had just finished building the woodshop space.  The electrical requirements in here were simple and along a single wall.  This seemed like a good space to prototype the unistrut approach as well as the wire trough, and it also did not depend on either of the subpanels being installed.

So above I mentioned conduit being used.  While plenty of conduit is used, the main runs in each room are in 4x4 wireway.  This is for a number of reasons:

Versatility.  This is easier to make changes in over time, without worrying about conduit or junction boxes filling up.
Similarly, I can just punch new holes whenever I want to drop a new conduit run or junction box out of it
In a large conduit system, effectively all your junction boxes along the main trunk/path need to be determined on day one.  There is no chance to splice a box into the pipe system later on, without pulling all the existing conducors back.  Wireway does not have this problem.
For equipment that uses twistlock connectors, those can be mounted directly under the wireway instead of needing to figure out a nice way to have them hang from a junction box (without undue strain on the connector protruding 90 degrees from the wall)
Even oversizing conduit... in the metal shop, a 1" conduit could easily fill up when you are talking about 6awg or 8awg conductors for welder outlets, etc.  Not to mention having to consider code inputs on conduit fill/sizing, derate conductors as you add more current-carrying conductors, etc.  Wireway does not have this problem without insane numbers of conductors being present

Locally, wireway ended up costing $55 per 10ft stick.  Cheaper than I originally expected this to be, which helped sway the decision as well.

I ordered enough to use on most walls in the back shop; 1 or 2 walls in the woodshop, the back wall of the garage, and maybe a few other small areas.

Ok so back to the woodshop...

On the longest wall of the woodshop, which is near the building's main panel, I placed 20" pieces of unistrut on every 3rd stud - giving 4' spacing.  This would give 2-3 points of support per stick of wireway.




There were two challenges solved during installation of the unistrut and wireway:
- The interior walls of the building use sheet metal studs.  How do you attach to these meaningfully?
- How can I hang 10' sticks of wireway by myself, to avoid needing to bring my wife in every 15-30 minutes throughout portions of the project?

For the studs, the solution is to place toggle bolts in the exact center of the stud so that it can expand within the cavity of the stud.  Between a studfinder (for coarse location), and exploratory drilling with a 1/16" drill bit (for precise location), it was easy enough to locate the center of the stud, within 1/8".  Drilling a 9/16 hole and dropping 3x 3/16 toggle bolts for each 20" piece of unistrut -- this seemed plenty strong for hanging the wireway plus future compressed air and dust collection lines.

For hanging wireway by myself, I found that I could use some longer 3/8 bolts and large washers to place temporary "studs" that would hold the wireway. This would allow me to adjust the wireway vertically to level it; and then mark and drill for holes to place the bolts and spring nuts that would permanently fasten it to the unistrut.








In the wood shop I had an additional challenge to overcome about how to have the conduit drops leave the back of the wireway to extend downwards.  This is desirable in the woodshop because I wanted to keep space open on the unistrut, below the wireway, for future dust collection to be hung on the same wireway.  I used some tight-radius 90deg elbow fittings that were terrible to pull wire through -- I'm glad I only needed to do 3 of these, and would not deploy more.

The wireway in the woodshop is fed directly from the main panel, via 1" EMT conduit along the ceiling.  This allows some room for fishing future conductors in case new circuits are needed for equipment over time.




At this point I was loving the space and versatility of the wireway, and had dialed in my installation processes that would be used elsewhere in the building

My pigtails were a bit long for junctions, but with the extra space in the wireway I did not hesitate to make things easier for my future self.




Woodshop done for now, it successfully provided the proof-of-concept for how we would mount the wireway on unistrut in the other shop.






Time to start hanging unistrut in the back shop.





Thanks to having the unistrut+wireway solution ironed out in the woodshop, pretty quickly I was at a point where I wanted to hang the unistrut and subpanel.  However, this depended on running the feed from the main panel, so I could place the subpanel and not have to fight to route the wire behind the wireway.


This is where we get into a side project.  You see, this building is a 48x60 pole barn with a truss roof.  The roof trusses are on 10' centers, with 2x6  stringers run between the bottom chords of the trusses.   Even if I was a taller person, there is no way to walk around safely in the attic on that 4x10ft framework.  Additionally, there is nothing to grab onto overhead - the peak of the roof is 8 to 10 feet above the truss chords.




The 2x6 stringers attach inside of the truss lower chords




So we need to build a walkway.  However, the access to the attic is over the garage and is only approximately 20x30 inches in size.




Downstairs, I prototyped a section of walkway that could run down the middle of the attic (under the peak of the roof), and sit on top of the lower truss chords.  10' long sections, joined together rigidly, forming one long 60' walkway down the center of the attic.  Each section is two 2x6x10 on edges, with 1/2 sheets of plywood screwed to the top and some additional stringers screwed in to strengthen under the plywood.

All of this was cut to length downstairs, brought up in pieces, and assembled in the attic.  The assembled sections were just too heavy to bring up a ladder and maneuver into the attic.






To gain access from the center out towards the eves, I put pairs of 2x6x10s on their side, with a half sheet of plywood.  These formed portable planks with the 2x6es protruding from the end, so that two abutting ones can overlap each other on top of a stringer.


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## FliesLikeABrick (Feb 1, 2022)

Now that the attic is safely accessible, it is time to pull in the panel feed for the metal shop.  A temporary rig made out of pallets and scrap held the spool, as my wife fed the cable up to me in the attic.

The feed is oversized by 2 sizes for the 100A subpanels.  At 75C, I could have used 1AWG Aluminum, but I went with 2/0 which at 75C has an ampacity of 135A (it might  even be 90C-rated, with 150A ampacity in the right circumstances), because:
- This is running through an attic, with a higher ambient temperature which could prompt derating
- Oversizing, in case someone was so inclined to install a 125A or larger subpanel in the future
- Also a benefit of oversizing -- voltage drop during high draw (specifically motor inrush currents) would be appreciably reduced.






The walkway provided a good central path that the feed cable could be attached to, meeting the code requirements for attaching the horizontal run of cable.







Dropping the cable down into the metal shop allowed for the confidence to mount the panel.  Due to the sheet metal framing in the wall and for increased versatility, the panel was mounted on two horizontal pieces of unistrut.







Now starting to hang wireway in the back, since the panel location and feed are finalized





Anxious to get the first machines powered via the new infrastructure, I pulled in the first few branch circuits:
- 240v@30a for the larger lathe (Harrison 10AA/Colchester Chipmaster) - and any other machines that should be on a 30a (shared) circuit
- 240v@15a for the smaller lathe (Logan 200) and mill (Rockwell 21-100)



Straightforward to pull conductors in for those from the panel.  Directly attached to the underside of the wireway is a 4" outlet box and then the appropriate twistlock connector over each machine.









But let's back up a minute.  A few things need to be solved to get these machines hooked up and working:
- The larger lathe's VFD is very poorly wired by a previous owner
- Additionally, the VFD is mounted too close to the top of the machine to allow new cabling to be properly installed
- The smaller lathe and mill's motors and drum switches are currently wired for 120v, and I don't have wiring diagrams or documentation for them



Improving the larger lathe's VFD mounting would require making new standoffs, so let's tackle the small lathe first so that we can then make the standoffs.

The first step was reverse-engineering the existing wiring and components of the motor.  Unfortunatelyh the motor was not wired in a manner consistent with its labeling, so I created a truth table and measured the resistance and capacitance between every wire and post inside the motor's junction box:




From this I labeled and identified where each component likely was, and could then wire it properly to the drum switch in a safe manner that is correct for swiching two hot legs in a reversible manner.


Now I could use the Logan 200 to make some larger standoffs to mount the VFD higher on the Harrison, so that it can be rewired

Here is the wiring of the VFD beforehand (after I already removed the inlet cable).

Some issues:

The strain reliefs are totally wrong.  They are tiny clamps meant for 12 or 14 awg NM cable
The cable (10/3 SO cable with 600v insulation) barely fits through a 1/2 knockout, let alone a strain relief mounted in a 1/2 knockout.  This is even worse for the power going out to the motor, which is 12/4 600V SO cable
The person who wired this up opted to strip the outer insulation off, chop the ground off, and clamp the remaining conductors in the strain relief.  In theory the ground might be loosely connected to the chassis of the VFD, but not at all reliably.
The same was true of both the inlet power cable as well as the power going out to the motor.
To fix this, we would need to raise the VFD up further away from the machine, install compression cord rips appropriate for the cable, enlarge the knockouts to 3/4 trade size, properly terminate the stranded wire in lugs for the terminal strip, and properly ground everything




and "after" -- notice that the VFD sits higher with the new standoffs.  10/3 SO 600V SO cord going to the machine, as well as up to the twistlock at the wireway




Here is new wire, terminated into crimp-on spade lugs.  If I was doing this again maybe I wouldn't use insulated terminals to save some room.

Proper strain reliefs in the larger knockouts, grounds terminated, etc.







Continuing around the back shop, and starting to add the next layer of features:  quad boxes.  In this room (and any others with the wireway overhead),  all outlets are above the bench level.

In addition to the machine drops and bench drops, I wanted to place GFCI-protected quadboxes at regular intervals around the room.  Each half of the quadbox is on a different breaker, so that two moderate-power demands can be used in close proximity without tripping a breaker (such as grinders or my small 120v MIG welder at the same time as a fume extractor).

The first 2 outlets in the chain are GFCI so that everything downstream is protected -- however in hindsight I probably should have just gone with GFCI breakers for simplicity.  I honestly can't remember why I didn't do this, or just didn't consider it.  Maybe I had already purchased all my breakers by the time I realized I wanted GFCI for the general-purpose outlets?

These outlet boxes are fed from 1/2 EMT drops.  All are the same length, and have the same 2 offsets bent so that the pipe mounts flush to the wall (2.5" offset out of the wireway, and standard 3/8" offset for the outlet box itself).

The black SO cable in the foreground is the temporary feed for the overhead lighting, this is addressed later.







At this point the panel is getting more populated, with most of the remaining branch circuits for this room pulled in:
- 2x 20A for the GFCI quad boxes
- 2x 20A for the NEMA L6-14 receptacles to feed bench-mounted power
- 50A for the welding table
- 15A for overhead lighting and shared with any hard-wired task lighting

Plus room for remaining work in the garage, whose back wall (shared with the panel wall of the metal shop) would be fed from this panel, including a future compressor.


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## FliesLikeABrick (Feb 1, 2022)

Using 2x3s and some brackets made to fit the unistrut behind the lathes, I made 16' of task lighting that hang directly overhead the working area of both lathes, the mill, and the vertical bandsaw.  This is in front of the operator, so no more working in dim light or one's own shadow.  A switch by the panel controls this hardwired task lighting

The frame supporting this can also hold small amounts of linear materials for storage, like some 1" by 10ft lengths of angle iron I have on hand for an upcoming project.




The room has 6 walls because of how a wider section of the hallway (outside the room) pushes the wall in.  The wireway ended up being installed from the panel (on the wall shared with the garage), down the long exterior wall, the short exterior wall, and a short interior wall to reach the welding table.  It would have been more efficient to reach the welding table via the 15' interior wall between it and the panel's wall (the other way around the room); however, that wall has ended up being used almost exclusively for storage.  I think in the long-term, it may have storage that goes all the way to the ceiling (a la the bin walls in Mythbusters' shop), so having wireway and unistrut halfway up the wall would almost certainly be an inconvenience for setting up ideal long-term storage.

The 4 pictures below show the final path of the wireway and location of machine drops, quad boxes, and other features.

I did end up adding a total of 6x 3/4" EMT extending from the breaker panel up to the wireway, to keep from having to derate my conductors too far.  However, with the conductors' insulation being 90C-rated,  even at 70% derating they still maintain the expected ampacity (12awg for 20a, etc).

If I was doing this again, I would have put all of those stubs from the panel in at once.  It was quite a pain installing them after the fact, because it required loosening the setscrews on the existing stubs, the fasteners for the panel itself, and shifting everything down just enough (temporarily) so that a new stub could be forced into place.










Remaining is finalizing some temporarily-wired lighting improvements as well as proceeding into the garage.



The overhead lighting consists of 10x 24W LED integrated tube fixtures.  With some friends, we placed a wholesale order (~150 total fixtures) and got these for ~$8/ea.  Rows of 3-4 fixtures come back to handyboxes which aggregate and tie into 3-way switches placed at the 2 doors to the shop





In this picture you can see the temporary SO cable being used to feed the lights






Since I had installed this previously, it was simple enough to permanently wire it in.  I pulled the 15a lighting circuit through the wireway, along with a neutral and travelers for the 3-way switching.  To replace the temporary feed, I bent 1/2" EMT to reach from the ceiling down to the wireway, so that it could be fed from the nearer of the 3-way switches.




Now moving onto the garage -- I hung about 15' of wireway along the back wall, in the same manner as elsewhere.




This is fed by 4x 3/4" EMT that goes straight through the wall and into the back of the wireway on the other side of the wall, near the metal shop's subpanel








The garage has its own GFCI quad boxes along the back wall, wired identically to the metal shop





One of which is used for the small compressor for now







The garage had extremely poor lighting - just 2x fluorescent fixtures and a single switch by the garage door.  This was upgraded very similar to the back shop with rows of the same LED fixtures and 3-way switching at the garage door and inside the hallway.

In theory these fixtures are 3000lm each, giving a total of 54,000 lumens.  In this space, that is approximately 100 lumens per square feet.







That about captures the electrical upgrades for the garage and shop.  There are various other small enhancements, but this is the main thrust of the design, features, and process involved. 

Lots of material left over, for modifications over time (including adding power to another wall in the garage and woodshop).  This has since gotten organized more, but was constantly in a state of disarray when fishing through or materials - or sorting out materials purchased at auctions.





It is neat to have this project written up in one place, and I hope it might help others brainstorm how they might perform similar work in their own space.  When planning this work out, I had ideas about what I wanted and how I wanted to do some of it, but .... man, I really wish I had someone else's home projects to reference, and ideally with details to help it materialize.

Specifically I did more pondering and research on these items, than if I had someone to discuss with up front:

Panel sizing.  I went with 100A main breaker panels (instead of main lug).  I opted for the main breaker so that there was a local disconnect available at the subpanel, although this is not required by NEC.  I opted for 100A panels because smaller ones just had an obscenely small number of breaker slots available.  I could have gone larger, with a 200A or 250A panel
General material selection, such as wireway vs conduit; panel feed options (individual conductors in conduit vs SER cable, etc)
Order-of-operations.  Mount panels or run feeds first? Start with the most-complex room (high reward) or the simplest room/features first (faster results and ability to pivot)?  Figure out the entire walkway situation in the attic before even purchasing electrical materials for the project?
Using unistrut to mount the wireway - whether there is a more-common approach, etc
Best practices for attaching loads to walls studded with sheet metal framing.  This one may sound silly, but in the planning stages of this I was worried I would be resorting to hanging wireway from toggle bolts that only used the drywall for strength.  It took a bit to realize that I could and should take the time to reliably place toggle bolts into the exact center of the vertical framing.

Things I would do differently:

At the onset of the project, I had pretty bad "paralysis by analysis"... Trying to figure out what to do first, how many outlets and other components in each room... whether to buy a truck first or a small utility trailer for our Civic so that I can pick up materials like bundles of conduit more easily?  It gets out of hand quickly.  I eventually realized that I should only plan out the major components up front, get those delivered in the large order from the supply house, and let the rest follow as the project progresses.  I could have saved a lot of time and energy if I had made that judgement call earlier.   This manifested in decisions about how to feed the panels (individual conductors in pipe?  Above or below the ceiling?  Wireway under the ceiling?  SER cable under the ceiling instead of in the attic?  Pay the power company to deliver power to the other side of the building, maybe 3ph?)
This is minor, but the covers I bought for the subpanels were not the spring-loaded QO covers.  These are the plain metal ones, which don't feel like they fit as satisfyingly as the ones with a preload spring between the two pieces of the cover (the flat outer panel, and the recessed inner panel that pushes on the breaker faces).  The shop's main panel has the nicer of the two.
I started going to local auctions after having the majority of this work done.  At those auctions, I ended up getting large lots of random electrical components for very cheap, but no longer needed most of them and they largely sit in my inventory now for small improvements and projects here-and-there.  I would have liked to start going to auctions prior to this project, when I had a rough idea of the BOM so that I could stock up on cheap inventory.  So much of this could have been done with used or new-old-stock components instead of buying new!   Not just for cost reasons, but it is always great to reuse items if there is not a clear safety concern.
In certain areas, I think I might have put taller lengths of unistrut in to allow for additional items to be mounted securely on the wall.  The best example is shelving that could be bolted to the unistrut, especially if it was on a wall that had sheet metal framing and the unistrut could make it both more usable and more rigid.

Tools of high value to a project like this:

*Greenlee Slug Buster knockout punch set (7235Bb)*.  SUPER helpful, and basically mandatory with the wireway.  The wireway has almost no knockouts in it from the factory, and they are never where you want them - especially when you're trying to mount it nicely and put reasonable offsets in your pipe work.  Sure you can use a step drill bit but that makes a huge mess, takes about the same amount of time, and ends up with a less-nice result.  Also since so many of my holes were needed overhead, it would constantly be raining hot chips down.... I picked up my Slug Buster set used on eBay prior to this project
*Portable/handheld bandsaw* - specifically a Dewalt 18v that I had from some previous electrical work at a project I volunteered on.  With all the conduit being cut, I can't imagine doing this with a hacksaw or tubing cutter.  I did use a chopsaw for most of the unistrut cuts (12ga steel), but the portaband could have just as easily been used.
*Klein Tools Power Conduit Reamer* -- you can use a step drill to ream the inside of the pipe, but this is faster/easier/cleaner and also reams the outside of the conduit
Obviously benders for 1/2, 3/4, and 1" conduit.  I bought these on eBay, but if I had gone to auctions ahead of time (see notes above), I would have gotten these cheaper.  Of course I bought more at the auction anyway so now I have duplicates :|
*Wago Lever Nuts* -- not a tool, but SUPER happy I made the decision to use these instead of wire nuts on this project.  Especially in the wireway, which is by-design more likely to have branch circuits reworked/modified over time - these made the project much more enjoyable.  I still use wirenuts in some places, but in the wireway I like the positive connection from the wirenuts.  When I am pulling new conductors into the wireway, I don't need to worry about wirenuts being more likely to come loose as they get bumped/wiggled over time.  I bought these in retail boxes online at first, but eventually bought them in some higher quantities from eBay sellers that were portioning out of wholesale lots in generic packaging.
*The wireway* - also not a tool, but in hindsight I can only see how poor the outcome would have been if I had put conduit in.  Even if I had pre-run 1" conduit around the whole room and put junction boxes every 4'... it would have been a poor facsimile of the outcome I ended up with.  Even 1" condui would have been full enough of conductors that it would have probably violated NEC fill, needed to be heavily derated, and would have been downright unpleasant to fish new conductors through for additional/modified branch circuits.
For the GFCI quad boxes, I definitely would have used GFCI breakers instead, for a cleaner result.


If you see anything that warrants further explanation or details being added to make this more helpful to people brainstorming or planning their own work, please do ask!  I will reply and also edit the detail into the appropriate place above.

Another post may follow at some point, about the other subpanel I put elsewhere in the building (for resistive loads including computer/network hardware, a small on-demand hot water heater, etc) and a lot of previous owners' work that I was able to refactor more cleanly to use that panel.


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## ConValSam (Feb 2, 2022)

Looks fantastic!

You'll be very happy to have wire way to add circuits or change conductor size with ease. 

Are you an electrician? If not you have done very professional work.


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## FliesLikeABrick (Feb 2, 2022)

ConValSam said:


> Looks fantastic!
> 
> You'll be very happy to have wire way to add circuits or change conductor size with ease.
> 
> Are you an electrician? If not you have done very professional work.



Thank you - I am not an electrician, but when I lived in Chicago I volunteered for a few years at a community center as one of two maintenance people for the large building.  My partner there was a tradesperson who did a lot of commercial electrical work, and I learned a lot from them.

It used to be a public school, 2 stories/36 classrooms, gym, cafeteria, kitchen, offices, etc (roughly 1/6 city block) before being shut down (and neglected for a few years before that).  A charitable organization bought it to offer local services, and we had to make a lot of repairs and small changes to help meet those goals. 

Lots of plumbing, HVAC, and mechanical repairs; plus installing probably a thousand feet of conduit inside and outside for low voltage networking (wireless networking, security cameras, etc), lighting improvements, and the occasional "we need an outlet over there" kind of changes.


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## SLK001 (Feb 2, 2022)

The drop from the attic to the sub panel should be in conduit.


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## FliesLikeABrick (Feb 2, 2022)

SLK001 said:


> The drop from the attic to the sub panel should be in conduit.


Thanks for the feedback.   I am guessing you are referring to the NEC provision on protecting feeders from physical damage?



> 230.50 Protection of Open Conductors and Cables Against Damage ? Above Ground
> Service-entrance conductors installed above ground shall be protected against physical damage as specified in 230.50(A) or (B).
> (A) Service Cables Service cables, where subject to physical damage, shall be protected by any of the following:
> (1) Rigid metal conduit
> ...



I had considered this, but reached the conclusion that "where subject to physical damage" likely does not apply here based on height above ground, being indoors, not being immediately adjacent to the door, etc.  

I'll look at this again, thanks.  Schedule 40 PVC looks to be permitted for  protection when used indoors, so I may pull the feed from the panel and  reinstall in PVC to protect it at least 8ft up the wall.

The other place I did add protection was in the attic, where the feeder is attached to the side of the walkway nearest the attic access - since that could be kicked or hit with material.


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## Boswell (Feb 2, 2022)

You had me at "56-pics".   I love the use of the wireway, it give you a versatility that will come in handy some day.


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## SLK001 (Feb 2, 2022)

FliesLikeABrick said:


> Thanks for the feedback.   I am guessing you are referring to the NEC provision on protecting feeders from physical damage?


Even as high as you have your panel, it will be still be subject to physical damage.  A piece of 1" EMT from the panel to a box at the intersection of the attic/workspace is basically all you'll have to do.  It will even look more professional.

You also need to support all your EMT down feeds within 36" of the outlet/switch.


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## rabler (Feb 2, 2022)

Are you running the quad GFCI outlets on two circuits in each quad, or alternating circuits?  I prefer having two circuits for each quad, but that means they need to be on a common trip.


FliesLikeABrick said:


> At this point the panel is getting more populated, with most of the remaining branch circuits for this room pulled in:
> - 2x 20A for the GFCI quad boxes


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## FliesLikeABrick (Feb 2, 2022)

SLK001 said:


> Even as high as you have your panel, it will be still be subject to physical damage.  A piece of 1" EMT from the panel to a box at the intersection of the attic/workspace is basically all you'll have to do.  It will even look more professional.
> 
> You also need to support all your EMT down feeds within 36" of the outlet/switch.



Thanks.  The SER cable won't fit in 1" EMT but your point is well taken.

Indeed, it isn't shown here (maybe in the final pictures) but almost all of the EMT downfeeds do have support in the middle now


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## FliesLikeABrick (Feb 2, 2022)

rabler said:


> Are you running the quad GFCI outlets on two circuits in each quad, or alternating circuits?  I prefer having two circuits for each quad, but that means they need to be on a common trip.



Both circuits are present in each quad box.  They shouldn't need to be common-trip if they are on separate neutrals, but in my case I do have it wired as a multi-wire branch circuit with common trip (although of course the neutrals are separate once downstream of the first GFCI on each branch)


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## rabler (Feb 2, 2022)

My fault, shouldn't try to play code police!     I'm confusing separate receptacles from when you split a receptacle (module) into two separate outlets each on a different circuit.  I've used MWBC's but prefer isolated breakers to reduce what does get shut off by an overload on  one circuit.

Nice job overall.  And an impressive job of being up to speed on the codes. I just recently picked up a copy of the 2020 NEC, as I'm getting ready to wire a new shop myself, and trying to brush up on the more modern codes, especially as I'm putting in a RPC, and a 3 phase distribution panel as well as in-floor outlets both single and 3 phase.  Since it is a new building I can do most of the wiring in-wall, but the wireway/trough does have a certain appeal.


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## FliesLikeABrick (Feb 2, 2022)

rabler said:


> My fault, shouldn't try to play code police!     I'm confusing separate receptacles from when you split a receptacle (module) into two separate outlets each on a different circuit.  I've used MWBC's but prefer isolated breakers to reduce what does get shut off by an overload on  one circuit.



No worries - indeed I check in occasionally on your thread on your building projects.  Part of the reason I do MWBCs in some places  (not for these GFCIs) is because I know that at some points I may want 240v available at a bench for experimentation or testing a 240v component.  Being able to tap 240v from two separate 120v receptacles -- which will properly trip together if overloaded -- is part of the reason I leaned towards MWBCs in this room.  

For the GFCI quads though, I should have just done GFCI breakers from the start.  If I ever need 2x gray GFCIs somewhere else in the shop, maybe I'll pull these out and replace them with GFCI breakers (either two separate or one common-trip since that would also allow for experimentation and bench testing 240v, whereas two separate outlets or breakers would not)


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## NCjeeper (Feb 2, 2022)

Great work there. How many months did it take to go from basic to awesome shop?


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## FliesLikeABrick (Feb 2, 2022)

NCjeeper said:


> Great work there. How many months did it take to go from basic to awesome shop?


I had the small lathe, mill, and temporary wiring to the improved lighting for a few months, using temporary power solutions. Then started moving on the electrical upgrade plans 

Looking back at the timestamps on these pictures I started the work on the attic walkway in mid- March, and finished the back shop in mid-May. That was probably 85% of the project and involved most of the problem solving. Evenings and weekends after work, family plans permitting. Once all the material was here, there was good incentive to get it hung and off the floor.

The smaller stuff in the garage and elsewhere has been ongoing in bits and pieces since then, as requirements evolve.


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## zuhnc (Feb 2, 2022)

@FliesLikeABrick - Are the panels a sub-feed from somewhere else, or are they a primary panel from a service feed from the meter base?  If a sub-fed panel, the neutrals and grounds should have been bonded in the primary panel, and NOT in the sub-panel.  Cannot have two (or more) ground/neutral bonds.  Also, I see a lack of insulating bushings on the conduit fittings where the wires enter the various components, especially the VFD box.  Nice installation.


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## FliesLikeABrick (Feb 2, 2022)

zuhnc said:


> @FliesLikeABrick - Are the panels a sub-feed from somewhere else, or are they a primary panel from a service feed from the meter base?  If a sub-fed panel, the neutrals and grounds should have been bonded in the primary panel, and NOT in the sub-panel.  Cannot have two (or more) ground/neutral bonds.  Also, I see a lack of insulating bushings on the conduit fittings where the wires enter the various components, especially the VFD box.  Nice installation.



Thanks for your observations/feedback

These are subpanels fed from a main panel within the same structure; neutral is bonded to ground only in the main panel.  The bonding screw in the subpanel was removed (or not installed in the first place, I can't remember if it was in a baggie of accessories); and a separate ground bar was ordered and installed in the subpanels.

Code specifies bushings are mandatory for 4awg-or-larger conductors, with the consensus being that this is to protect the conductors' own weight from abrading the insulation on a hard edge during installation and over time.  This installation is not using any 4awg+ conductors except the SER cable which has the outer jacket and is not in conduit or conduit fittings subject to pulling/scuffing forces.  The other situation in which they are required is for threaded RMC conduit itself (due to cut and/or partial threads being exposed), regardless of conductor size:






That all said, of course they can (and should be used) proactively beyond what code actually requires.   I did use them anywhere I used 1" or larger conduit, and anywhere that wire pulls could be going over a hard corner on a fitting.    

All of the box-to-box or box-to-wireway connections are made with chase nipples that offer similar protection



The VFD box is not covered by the code requirements for bushings because it is a non-hardwired appliance. That said, the cabling coming in is rubber-jacketed in a compression fitting instead of terminating in EMT or RMC in a manner that exposes a sharp edge (that individual conductors may get dragged over).   Even if this SO cord was exiting threaded RMC, the outer jacket of the SO cord should provide the necessary protection  (akin to a throat protector being used inside RMC instead of a threaded bushing) since the conductor's insulation is the interior of the two layers of insulation and it is not a conduit fitting.    On top of all that, the terminal strip is REALLY close to the knockouts in the VFD,  it was hard enough to get the wiring routed with proper termination, let alone sneak a bushing in there too 

Thank you for your comments - they keep me on my toes and encourage me to double- and triple-check my understanding


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## zuhnc (Feb 2, 2022)

Thanks for your explanations.   Nice install.  Can't ever have enough outlets, most on their own circuit breaker and wiring.  I have all the outlets in my shop at 48 inches above the floor, all GFCI.
Have you thought about emergency power to the shop?  Generator, proper transfer switch (NO backfeeding anything), separate emergency sub-panel, etc.
I used to live in Norfolk.  Moved three years ago to mid-MO, after retirement.  Less everything!  Very nice.


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## FliesLikeABrick (Feb 2, 2022)

zuhnc said:


> Thanks for your explanations.   Nice install.  Can't ever have enough outlets, most on their own circuit breaker and wiring.  I have all the outlets in my shop at 48 inches above the floor, all GFCI.
> Have you thought about emergency power to the shop?  Generator, proper transfer switch (NO backfeeding anything), separate emergency sub-panel, etc.
> I used to live in Norfolk.  Moved three years ago to mid-MO, after retirement.  Less everything!  Very nice.



I do have an extra small generator I was going to use for the shop, to keep some computer equipment on during extended weather events (our wireless ISP has a relay on our shop that serves other customers, plus our own network relies on hardware in the shop).  Not 100% proper (transfer switch), but if I do it -- it will at least be with an interlock on the main panel and a proper inlet receptacle outside (no suicide plugs)

If the shop ever becomes a fruit-bearing business instead of a hobby, then yeah I would upgrade to a more-proper solution.

I'm actually sometimes a bit bummed that the shop has its own meter+service for two reasons:
- Can't use one generator to serve the shop and house together during power outages
- The shop has a perfect roof and sun exposure for solar, so we did a small install.  However, due to the separate meters we aren't allowed to overproduce at the shop in a way that can credit usage at the house; and the house is very ill-suited for solar due to its roof pitch and shading from trees.  We do charge our car at the shop, and all of our always-on computer load is in the shop - so it still made sense to do some solar there.


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## jwmelvin (Feb 2, 2022)

[mention]FliesLikeABrick [/mention] I’d love to have seen your work before I started on my shop. I have a collection of MC circuits that run from my garage sub panel, added in layers over the years. It does pretty much what I want and I add what I need over time. The outside walls are concrete, partition walls uninsulated and open, and ceiling of open trusses; so running wires is easy, but it would be much neater, easier to change, and probably only marginally more expensive to do it your way.


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## zuhnc (Feb 2, 2022)

The interlock on the main panel is a very proper solution; safe for everyone.
I understand the two separate feeds; I have a single meter, but two feeds - one to the house and one to the shop.  They have 1998 three-wire UF, as was installed back then.  2 hots and one neutral.  The main panels in both buildings are the N/G bond for that particular building.  Even though a single meter, I still have to have two generators; can't maintain the single N/G bond point with using only one generator, unless I have two ATS's with switched neutral.  Won't do that.
Since I have the N/G bond in the main panels, the generators have to have separate neutral and ground brought out for the emergency panel (sub-fed from the main panel).
I don't have any way to do solar, as the panels would have to be out in the pasture, 200-300 feet from any building.  I know it is possible, but the wiring gets to be more complicated (and therefore more expensive) than I would like.
A simple three-pole, double throw manual switch would also be an alternative for your small generator for the critical equipment. Along with appropriate UPS's.


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## rabler (Feb 2, 2022)

Out of curiosity, why the separate service from the house?  Too far from the house, or just the way the previous owners had set it up?
I'm in the process of swapping to a 400A meter with dual 200A disconnects, one for the house and one for the shop.


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## FliesLikeABrick (Feb 2, 2022)

zuhnc said:


> I don't have any way to do solar, as the panels would have to be out in the pasture, 200-300 feet from any building.  I know it is possible, but the wiring gets to be more complicated (and therefore more expensive) than I would like.


yuuuuuuuuup.  The shop roof has enough square footage that we could install more capacity beyond what even the house would need... but the cost to trench appropriate cabling across the front yard (250ft) is insane if the solar contractor does it.  Understandably they wouldn't want me to rough the wiring in, so the most I could do is trench conduit for them to pull their own conductors into.  I am considering it, for some day.



zuhnc said:


> A simple three-pole, double throw manual switch would also be an alternative for your small generator for the critical equipment. Along with appropriate UPS's.


Yep.  The server racks have their own UPSes in them, which are good for 45 minutes of runtime on the network and ~75 minutes on the servers.

Most of this equipment is powered off most of the time (used for lab purposes and powered on when-needed)




I already have the inlet receptacle that I can install outside the shop (immediately opposite the main panel, next to the driveway... it's perfect and way better than the location I dealt with at the house).  Maybe I'll get to that in the next week or two since I already have the cover off the main panel for a couple new circuits in the garage.  At an auction last year I got 2 brand new 6kw garage heaters for $50 total as part of a larger lot of stuff nobody wanted - so I'm putting in 2x30A circuits with contactors and a light switch, so that I can mount the heaters on the ceiling out of the way.

And because you commented on it and may ask in a reply - yep on both our generators I broke the neutral/ground bond since the building provides that in both cases


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## FliesLikeABrick (Feb 2, 2022)

rabler said:


> Out of curiosity, why the separate service from the house?  Too far from the house, or just the way the previous owners had set it up?
> I'm in the process of swapping to a 400A meter with dual 200A disconnects, one for the house and one for the shop.


Yeah, 200-300 feet from the house depending what corners you measure from.  The house was built in '92 with "only" a 200A service, and the panel is 100% full (partially due to good use of the available breakers, and partially by the electric baseboards that provided the primary source of heat when the house was built).  It would have probably cost them substantially more to trench from the house than to just have a new service installed by the utility company.


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## rabler (Feb 2, 2022)

I forget not everyone just goes out and rents a trencher and does it themselves.  1400' from our house to the barns.  The barns are on a separate meter, but I did trench a fiber for cameras across that.


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## FliesLikeABrick (Feb 2, 2022)

rabler said:


> I forget not everyone just goes out and rents a trencher and does it themselves.  1400' from our house to the barns.  The barns are on a separate meter, but I did trench a fiber for cameras across that.


I will be doing that at some point for some fiber and other things, but didn't want to rush into it because there are water and septic lines between the house and shop (plus the buried power service to the house from the pole)


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## zuhnc (Feb 2, 2022)

Original install.  House is about 50' from the garage/shop, and the garage is closer to the meter than the house.  Based on the original construction, it was cheaper to install the UF to each building than to house and then garage, or vise/versa.
Garage is about 60' from the pole to the main panel, and the house is about 120' or so.
I have enough generators to have one for each building; 15KW for the house and 5KW for the garage/shop, plus a 1KW, 2.7KW, 3KW, (all gasoline or gaseous, air-cooled), and a 6KW diesel water-cooled.  All Onan.
I hadn't thought of fiber to the barn (150'), but already have Cat-5 between all the buildings, in conduit.
Had to rent an E35i excavator to dig the trench 18" deep; rocky (shale-type, not granite-type) ground here.  Trencher wouldn't do the job.


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## FliesLikeABrick (Feb 2, 2022)

zuhnc said:


> I have enough generators to have one for each building; 15KW for the house and 5KW for the garage/shop, plus a 1KW, 2.7KW, 3KW, (all gasoline or gaseous, air-cooled), and a 6KW diesel water-cooled.  All Onan.


I have 3:
- A Ryobi 7kw for the house
- A Craftsman 2500w single-pole/120v for the computer load right now (via extension cords)
- I was given a 4kw (I think) generator that has 120v and 230v outputs.  It is older and needs some repair.... the problem is that the 230v output doesn't have a neutral.  If I can get it running, and if there is a center-tapped neutral available (probably from the 120v outlets), I should be able to rewire it slightly so that this can become the shop generator.


zuhnc said:


> I hadn't thought of fiber to the barn (150'), but already have Cat-5 between all the buildings, in conduit.
> Had to rent an E35i excavator to dig the trench 18" deep; rocky (shale-type, not granite-type) ground here.  Trencher wouldn't do the job.


I have a little 3000 lbs mini-excavator we'll be renting for another project very soon now, but I won't have it long enough to tackle one of these other projects right now.  Our soil is all clay and loam (bedrock is about 8-10 ft down)


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## SLK001 (Feb 2, 2022)

rabler said:


> I forget not everyone just goes out and rents a trencher and does it themselves.  1400' from our house to the barns.  The barns are on a separate meter, but I did trench a fiber for cameras across that.



A lot of electric companies won't install into someone else's trench.  They are responsible for the feed to the meter, so they do the digging.


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## rabler (Feb 2, 2022)

SLK001 said:


> A lot of electric companies won't install into someone else's trench.  They are responsible for the feed to the meter, so they do the digging.


I understand that the power utility does their own trenching to the meter.  I’m actually waiting for our local utility to trench to a new 400a meter, multicolored flags all over the yard.

 That side-track started because to me 200’ - 300’ between buildings wouldn’t justify a separate meter and the long-term ongoing monthly base charge usually associated (depending on the local rate structure)  with each meter.    Even at current price of nearly $5/ft for suitable cable, those economics do change if you rent a trencher for a couple hundred bucks and do it yourself, or prefer to pay a contractor to deal with the feeder line to an outbuilding.  @FliesLikeABrick strikes me as a DIY’er, but the separate meter came with the property.  

In my case, with a 400amp meter, a solar system wouldn’t be a choice between serving house, or shop.  Regardless where it was installed it would serve both.  Backup generator gets to be a more complicated as I’m using dual 200a service disconnects, so I believe that would essentially require two transfer switches and two generators to cover both, although I haven’t looked into details for that config.


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## zuhnc (Feb 6, 2022)

@rabler  - What model and brand generator.  I have extensive experience with a lot of older stuff (pre-1990) below 20KW, primarily Onan.


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## rabler (Feb 6, 2022)

zuhnc said:


> @rabler  - What model and brand generator.  I have extensive experience with a lot of older stuff (pre-1990) below 20KW, primarily Onan.


I do not at this point have a backup generator.  I am leaning toward getting a generator driven by a tractor PTO, as I have experience issues with gasoline powered generators that sit for a while and are nearly impossible to start. 

I have a 85HP diesel tractor, with an "efficiency" gear selector on the PTO, so it can operate the PTO at rated RPM with the engine running at about 2/3's max RPM, which is suppose to provide roughly 1/2 HP maximum at better fuel economy.    This would make it quite reasonable to continuously produce at least 20KW.  I have been looking at something like a 20 - 25KW generator, might as well have a little bit of extra generator capacity.

I have also considered a natural gas permanently installed backup generator.  That solves the generator sitting for a while, as they automatically start themselves periodically (usually weekly).  Still another motor that needs oil changes.  Was looking at Menards today at Generacs, they run about twice what a tractor PTO generator costs, (before installation) as obviously you're buying an engine + generator.

Pros and Cons - the tractor generator I could use across the farm, as we have barns and a garage on a different feed. No gas service at the barns so an NG backup is not feasible.   I have a total of three 200A service disconnects.  Two are co-located, one (barns) is about a 1/4 mile away.  But even with a transfer switches pre-installed (not factored into the above costs), the I'd have to hook the tractor up to the transfer switch.  For a backup I really only worry about the service disconnect for the house though.  The NG generators probably have better Hz and THD controls.


Apologies to @FliesLikeABrick, this is more of a derail than I intended on your thread.  You've done a nice job of setting your place up.


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