# Tormach, Tts And Other Tooling Systems?



## echesak (May 1, 2014)

Howdy folks, 

I've been contemplating a Tormach for a couple years.  I like the simplicity of the Tormach TTS, but would be interested in hearing from others that maybe have bought similar tooling elsewhere, or have their Tormach (or other CNC) differently.  Obviously the referenced Z location is a plus. But I'm wondering about the repeatability of the TTS, since the R8 Chuck retracts into the spindle, when tightened.  So it would seem that differing air pressure would cause the collet to pull harder or less hard, affecting the Z-reference.  Am I missing something here? 

I'd love to get a Haas Mini mill with the Cat40, but I don't think that's in the budget (even a used one).  

Any others have a different thought on tooling set-up for small/home CNC's?

Thanks, 

Eric


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## DaveSohlstrom (May 1, 2014)

I have a new 770 with TTS. I have only had on problem and that was my fault. I did not get the collet tight enough and the holder backed out a little under heavy cutting load. My bad. The collet only provides the holding power the tool holder sets on the face of the spindle so it locates the same every time. Love the TTS system.

Dave


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## echesak (May 1, 2014)

I've read about folks having trouble keeping the TTS engaged under large loads.  I'm pretty conservative though.  

I didn't realize that the TTS reference was on the spindle. That makes a lot more sense.  

How's the Tormach, tooling and other aspects generally holding up?  

Thanks for the info.

Eric


----------



## 09kevin (May 1, 2014)

I also have a PCNC770 and really like it! As Dave said the tool holder locates against the face of the spindle. If you get the power draw bar option it uses a longer draw bar and spring washers to tighten the R8 collet, air pressure is only used to release the collet. 


Kevin


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## DMS (May 1, 2014)

I have a CNC converted bpt clone that I run TTS holders in. I have never had an issue with pullout. You should not have problems if you are running appropriate tooling. For example, avoid hogging out material with a 1.5" end mill, smaller end mills and higher speeds and feeds will get you better material removal rates (I use the er-20 holders, so my max size is 1/2"). 

I also highly recommend the "Superfly" fly cutter. Worth every penny.


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## cjtoombs (May 1, 2014)

Eric,
I have a PCNC 1100 and use the TTS with it.  I have had a few problems with tools pulling out early on, then I read Tormachs white paper on some testing they did with collet holding force and the factors that affect it.  Since then I have had only one incidence of pullout, and that was my fault as I did not have the drawbar tightened properly.  All the times I had pullout were on large end mills and aggressive cuts.  Here is that paper:


http://www.tormach.com/document_direct_download.html?doc_id=163

For larger jobs I generally set the tools up on the bench and enter the z offset into the tool table.  I have only broken one TTS holder, a JT1 drill adapter that I crashed, but I wouldn't expect anything to survive that.  It's fairly affordable and offers a pretty wide variety of holding options.


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## echesak (May 1, 2014)

DMS said:


> I have a CNC converted bpt clone that I run TTS holders in. I have never had an issue with pullout. You should not have problems if you are running appropriate tooling. For example, avoid hogging out material with a 1.5" end mill, smaller end mills and higher speeds and feeds will get you better material removal rates (I use the er-20 holders, so my max size is 1/2").
> 
> I also highly recommend the "Superfly" fly cutter. Worth every penny.




I had investigated an Elrod / Centroid conversion on my BP j-head.  But the price quickly rose well above a well-tooled Tormach.  Are you using the Tormach ER holders?  A friend recommended these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-10pcs-C...-Collet-Chuck-CNC-Milling-Lathe-/261390401492
Evidently they also have ones with the ATC groove.  He mentioned that they were well built and good quality, and are about 1/3 the cost.  I'm wondering if any others had tried any non-tormach tooling.

Eric


----------



## DMS (May 1, 2014)

I did my own conversion, so cost was lower. I figure with everything included (machine, electronics, ballscrews), I am in for about $4k (assuming my time is free of course).

I am using the Tormach ER holders (which have dropped in price since I last purchased). They are great quality for the price. I think I have 6 of them now, as well as a 1/4" drill chuck, a 3/8" set screw holder, and a Superfly.


----------



## COMachinist (May 1, 2014)

echesak said:


> I had investigated an Elrod / Centroid conversion on my BP j-head.  But the price quickly rose well above a well-tooled Tormach.  Are you using the Tormach ER holders?  A friend recommended these:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-10pcs-C...-Collet-Chuck-CNC-Milling-Lathe-/261390401492
> Evidently they also have ones with the ATC groove.  He mentioned that they were well built and good quality, and are about 1/3 the cost.  I'm wondering if any others had tried any non-tormach tooling.
> 
> Eric


I bought 10 of these ER20 and have never had a problem, never a slip or tool pull out, I have 1.5hp motor, and timing belt drive. I have taken some heavy cut with them, to heavy for this machine really (G0704 CNC conversion). I have a 3/4" 4 flute with 1/2 " shank and never had a problem with it. 
I like them and they where the right price.
CH


----------



## echesak (May 1, 2014)

COMachinist said:


> I bought 10 of these ER20 and have never had a problem, never a slip or tool pull out, I have 1.5hp motor, and timing belt drive. I have taken some heavy cut with them, to heavy for this machine really (G0704 CNC conversion). I have a 3/4" 4 flute with 1/2 " shank and never had a problem with it.
> I like them and they where the right price.
> CH



Thanks for the info.  I can see where having a lot of tool holding options would be a huge benefit. And an option like this would allow me to purchase a lot more for less. 

Eric


----------



## echesak (May 1, 2014)

Howdy folks, 

I've been contemplating a Tormach for a couple years.  I like the simplicity of the Tormach TTS, but would be interested in hearing from others that maybe have bought similar tooling elsewhere, or have their Tormach (or other CNC) differently.  Obviously the referenced Z location is a plus. But I'm wondering about the repeatability of the TTS, since the R8 Chuck retracts into the spindle, when tightened.  So it would seem that differing air pressure would cause the collet to pull harder or less hard, affecting the Z-reference.  Am I missing something here? 

I'd love to get a Haas Mini mill with the Cat40, but I don't think that's in the budget (even a used one).  

Any others have a different thought on tooling set-up for small/home CNC's?

Thanks, 

Eric


----------



## DaveSohlstrom (May 1, 2014)

I have a new 770 with TTS. I have only had on problem and that was my fault. I did not get the collet tight enough and the holder backed out a little under heavy cutting load. My bad. The collet only provides the holding power the tool holder sets on the face of the spindle so it locates the same every time. Love the TTS system.

Dave


----------



## echesak (May 1, 2014)

I've read about folks having trouble keeping the TTS engaged under large loads.  I'm pretty conservative though.  

I didn't realize that the TTS reference was on the spindle. That makes a lot more sense.  

How's the Tormach, tooling and other aspects generally holding up?  

Thanks for the info.

Eric


----------



## 09kevin (May 1, 2014)

I also have a PCNC770 and really like it! As Dave said the tool holder locates against the face of the spindle. If you get the power draw bar option it uses a longer draw bar and spring washers to tighten the R8 collet, air pressure is only used to release the collet. 


Kevin


----------



## DMS (May 1, 2014)

I have a CNC converted bpt clone that I run TTS holders in. I have never had an issue with pullout. You should not have problems if you are running appropriate tooling. For example, avoid hogging out material with a 1.5" end mill, smaller end mills and higher speeds and feeds will get you better material removal rates (I use the er-20 holders, so my max size is 1/2"). 

I also highly recommend the "Superfly" fly cutter. Worth every penny.


----------



## cjtoombs (May 1, 2014)

Eric,
I have a PCNC 1100 and use the TTS with it.  I have had a few problems with tools pulling out early on, then I read Tormachs white paper on some testing they did with collet holding force and the factors that affect it.  Since then I have had only one incidence of pullout, and that was my fault as I did not have the drawbar tightened properly.  All the times I had pullout were on large end mills and aggressive cuts.  Here is that paper:


http://www.tormach.com/document_direct_download.html?doc_id=163

For larger jobs I generally set the tools up on the bench and enter the z offset into the tool table.  I have only broken one TTS holder, a JT1 drill adapter that I crashed, but I wouldn't expect anything to survive that.  It's fairly affordable and offers a pretty wide variety of holding options.


----------



## echesak (May 1, 2014)

DMS said:


> I have a CNC converted bpt clone that I run TTS holders in. I have never had an issue with pullout. You should not have problems if you are running appropriate tooling. For example, avoid hogging out material with a 1.5" end mill, smaller end mills and higher speeds and feeds will get you better material removal rates (I use the er-20 holders, so my max size is 1/2").
> 
> I also highly recommend the "Superfly" fly cutter. Worth every penny.




I had investigated an Elrod / Centroid conversion on my BP j-head.  But the price quickly rose well above a well-tooled Tormach.  Are you using the Tormach ER holders?  A friend recommended these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-10pcs-C...-Collet-Chuck-CNC-Milling-Lathe-/261390401492
Evidently they also have ones with the ATC groove.  He mentioned that they were well built and good quality, and are about 1/3 the cost.  I'm wondering if any others had tried any non-tormach tooling.

Eric


----------



## DMS (May 1, 2014)

I did my own conversion, so cost was lower. I figure with everything included (machine, electronics, ballscrews), I am in for about $4k (assuming my time is free of course).

I am using the Tormach ER holders (which have dropped in price since I last purchased). They are great quality for the price. I think I have 6 of them now, as well as a 1/4" drill chuck, a 3/8" set screw holder, and a Superfly.


----------



## COMachinist (May 1, 2014)

echesak said:


> I had investigated an Elrod / Centroid conversion on my BP j-head.  But the price quickly rose well above a well-tooled Tormach.  Are you using the Tormach ER holders?  A friend recommended these:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-10pcs-C...-Collet-Chuck-CNC-Milling-Lathe-/261390401492
> Evidently they also have ones with the ATC groove.  He mentioned that they were well built and good quality, and are about 1/3 the cost.  I'm wondering if any others had tried any non-tormach tooling.
> 
> Eric


I bought 10 of these ER20 and have never had a problem, never a slip or tool pull out, I have 1.5hp motor, and timing belt drive. I have taken some heavy cut with them, to heavy for this machine really (G0704 CNC conversion). I have a 3/4" 4 flute with 1/2 " shank and never had a problem with it. 
I like them and they where the right price.
CH


----------



## echesak (May 1, 2014)

COMachinist said:


> I bought 10 of these ER20 and have never had a problem, never a slip or tool pull out, I have 1.5hp motor, and timing belt drive. I have taken some heavy cut with them, to heavy for this machine really (G0704 CNC conversion). I have a 3/4" 4 flute with 1/2 " shank and never had a problem with it.
> I like them and they where the right price.
> CH



Thanks for the info.  I can see where having a lot of tool holding options would be a huge benefit. And an option like this would allow me to purchase a lot more for less. 

Eric


----------



## echesak (May 1, 2014)

Howdy folks, 

I've been contemplating a Tormach for a couple years.  I like the simplicity of the Tormach TTS, but would be interested in hearing from others that maybe have bought similar tooling elsewhere, or have their Tormach (or other CNC) differently.  Obviously the referenced Z location is a plus. But I'm wondering about the repeatability of the TTS, since the R8 Chuck retracts into the spindle, when tightened.  So it would seem that differing air pressure would cause the collet to pull harder or less hard, affecting the Z-reference.  Am I missing something here? 

I'd love to get a Haas Mini mill with the Cat40, but I don't think that's in the budget (even a used one).  

Any others have a different thought on tooling set-up for small/home CNC's?

Thanks, 

Eric


----------



## DaveSohlstrom (May 1, 2014)

I have a new 770 with TTS. I have only had on problem and that was my fault. I did not get the collet tight enough and the holder backed out a little under heavy cutting load. My bad. The collet only provides the holding power the tool holder sets on the face of the spindle so it locates the same every time. Love the TTS system.

Dave


----------



## echesak (May 1, 2014)

I've read about folks having trouble keeping the TTS engaged under large loads.  I'm pretty conservative though.  

I didn't realize that the TTS reference was on the spindle. That makes a lot more sense.  

How's the Tormach, tooling and other aspects generally holding up?  

Thanks for the info.

Eric


----------



## 09kevin (May 1, 2014)

I also have a PCNC770 and really like it! As Dave said the tool holder locates against the face of the spindle. If you get the power draw bar option it uses a longer draw bar and spring washers to tighten the R8 collet, air pressure is only used to release the collet. 


Kevin


----------



## DMS (May 1, 2014)

I have a CNC converted bpt clone that I run TTS holders in. I have never had an issue with pullout. You should not have problems if you are running appropriate tooling. For example, avoid hogging out material with a 1.5" end mill, smaller end mills and higher speeds and feeds will get you better material removal rates (I use the er-20 holders, so my max size is 1/2"). 

I also highly recommend the "Superfly" fly cutter. Worth every penny.


----------



## cjtoombs (May 1, 2014)

Eric,
I have a PCNC 1100 and use the TTS with it.  I have had a few problems with tools pulling out early on, then I read Tormachs white paper on some testing they did with collet holding force and the factors that affect it.  Since then I have had only one incidence of pullout, and that was my fault as I did not have the drawbar tightened properly.  All the times I had pullout were on large end mills and aggressive cuts.  Here is that paper:


http://www.tormach.com/document_direct_download.html?doc_id=163

For larger jobs I generally set the tools up on the bench and enter the z offset into the tool table.  I have only broken one TTS holder, a JT1 drill adapter that I crashed, but I wouldn't expect anything to survive that.  It's fairly affordable and offers a pretty wide variety of holding options.


----------



## echesak (May 1, 2014)

DMS said:


> I have a CNC converted bpt clone that I run TTS holders in. I have never had an issue with pullout. You should not have problems if you are running appropriate tooling. For example, avoid hogging out material with a 1.5" end mill, smaller end mills and higher speeds and feeds will get you better material removal rates (I use the er-20 holders, so my max size is 1/2").
> 
> I also highly recommend the "Superfly" fly cutter. Worth every penny.




I had investigated an Elrod / Centroid conversion on my BP j-head.  But the price quickly rose well above a well-tooled Tormach.  Are you using the Tormach ER holders?  A friend recommended these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-10pcs-C...-Collet-Chuck-CNC-Milling-Lathe-/261390401492
Evidently they also have ones with the ATC groove.  He mentioned that they were well built and good quality, and are about 1/3 the cost.  I'm wondering if any others had tried any non-tormach tooling.

Eric


----------



## DMS (May 1, 2014)

I did my own conversion, so cost was lower. I figure with everything included (machine, electronics, ballscrews), I am in for about $4k (assuming my time is free of course).

I am using the Tormach ER holders (which have dropped in price since I last purchased). They are great quality for the price. I think I have 6 of them now, as well as a 1/4" drill chuck, a 3/8" set screw holder, and a Superfly.


----------



## COMachinist (May 1, 2014)

echesak said:


> I had investigated an Elrod / Centroid conversion on my BP j-head.  But the price quickly rose well above a well-tooled Tormach.  Are you using the Tormach ER holders?  A friend recommended these:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-10pcs-C...-Collet-Chuck-CNC-Milling-Lathe-/261390401492
> Evidently they also have ones with the ATC groove.  He mentioned that they were well built and good quality, and are about 1/3 the cost.  I'm wondering if any others had tried any non-tormach tooling.
> 
> Eric


I bought 10 of these ER20 and have never had a problem, never a slip or tool pull out, I have 1.5hp motor, and timing belt drive. I have taken some heavy cut with them, to heavy for this machine really (G0704 CNC conversion). I have a 3/4" 4 flute with 1/2 " shank and never had a problem with it. 
I like them and they where the right price.
CH


----------



## echesak (May 1, 2014)

COMachinist said:


> I bought 10 of these ER20 and have never had a problem, never a slip or tool pull out, I have 1.5hp motor, and timing belt drive. I have taken some heavy cut with them, to heavy for this machine really (G0704 CNC conversion). I have a 3/4" 4 flute with 1/2 " shank and never had a problem with it.
> I like them and they where the right price.
> CH



Thanks for the info.  I can see where having a lot of tool holding options would be a huge benefit. And an option like this would allow me to purchase a lot more for less. 

Eric


----------

