# Which Tungsten???



## jpfabricator (Jun 25, 2016)

Which is better for all porpoise use ceriated or lanthinated?
And if possible ,why?

Sent from somwhere in east Texas by Jake!


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## Sandia (Jun 25, 2016)

Jake, I use 2 percent lanthinated by advice from Jody of "Welding Tips and Tricks".  Seems to do a good job.


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## Uglydog (Jun 25, 2016)

I've had the best luck with 2% Lanth over anything else.
1.5% Lanth doesn't work nearly as well.
Well, that's been my experience.

Daryl
MN


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## TOOLMASTER (Jun 25, 2016)

I must not have got the memo....googled the spelling and got this...oh boy...

anyway i have always used 2% thoriated

http://www.twi-global.com/technical...faq-the-use-of-thoriated-tungsten-electrodes/


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## John Hasler (Jun 25, 2016)

TOOLMASTER said:


> I must not have got the memo....googled the spelling and got this...oh boy...
> 
> anyway i have always used 2% thoriated
> 
> http://www.twi-global.com/technical...faq-the-use-of-thoriated-tungsten-electrodes/


There is lots of scaremongering about thorium.  The stuff about storage, labeling, dust collection, etc is necessary to comply with loony government regulations if you are business subect to OSHA et al, but there is no actual hazard.


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## TOOLMASTER (Jun 25, 2016)

as much of it that i still have i won't be buying others
..lol


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## Uglydog (Jun 25, 2016)

Oh, please don't get me wrong I'm not dumping my Thorium.
I'm simply replacing with 2% Lanth.

Daryl
MN


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## John Hasler (Jun 25, 2016)

Uglydog said:


> Oh, please don't get me wrong I'm not dumping my Thorium.
> I'm simply replacing with 2% Lanth.
> 
> Daryl
> MN


Does it work as well?


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## rwm (Jun 25, 2016)

I have always used Ceriated Tungsten for general purpose welding and have never had a problem. It was originally recommended to me by the folks at Cyberweld. Am I missing something with Lathanated? I'm not going to mess with an alpha emitting dust even if its low risk.
R


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## royesses (Jun 26, 2016)

I use 2% lanthanated on my Lincoln square wave 175. It works well on everything I have welded so far.  Why?  Because I like just having one type to keep on hand. I've read that some weldors have problems with it on some machines so I just purchased one 10 piece box at first to try out.

Roy


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## Uglydog (Jun 26, 2016)

I really like my TIG. However, I'm far from a professional welder.
Started using 2% Lanth several years ago for an aluminum job, and since used in for other metals, using a Lincoln PT225.

Similar to the recommendation above I've found Jodys' videos very helpful!
In response to this thread I found this free video link showing comparison to several different tungstens. 





Daryl
MN


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## rwm (Jun 26, 2016)

Great video Daryl. Thanks for posting it. I have the exact same machine as in the video.
I rarely if ever weld at 200 amps and have not really had a problem with Ceriated Tungsten balling up. Having said that, it looks like I should give the Lathanated a try!
Robert


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## zmotorsports (Jun 27, 2016)

On my Miller inverter machine at home I use 2% Lanthanated for everything.  I switched from 2% Ceriated about three or four years ago which also does a fair job.

Mike.


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## intjonmiller (Jun 27, 2016)

Thorium-232 has a halflife of about 14 billion years. That is longer than our best estimate of the current age of the known universe. The ones you have to worry about have halflives under roughly 100,000 years (any longer and the dose is too small to be of concern with infrequent exposure) and more than a matter of minutes or hours (as those never last long enough to do any real damage). By way of comparison Plutonium-239 has a halflife of 24,000 years (a good, steady rate for use as fuel), Uranium-238 has 4.47 billion years, Uranium 235 has 700 million years (convenient lifespan for figuring out how long Earth has been Earth), Radium-226 has 1,600 years, and Actinium has 21 years. 

Helpful chart: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_radioactive_isotopes_by_half-life

Even more helpful chart:

https://xkcd.com/radiation/

It has been way too long since chemistry for me to remember how to do all of the math to calculate the dosage rate from welding all day, every day, with thoriated tungsten electrodes, but I'm certain it would fall on the blue section of the chart. 


Personally I would rather live in a world/country where we have such overly cautious labels than a world where fluoroscopy is used for shoe fittings. Informed consent and all that.


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## intjonmiller (Jun 27, 2016)

zmotorsports said:


> On my Miller inverter machine at home I use 2% Lanthanated for everything.  I switched from 2% Ceriated about three or four years ago which also does a fair job.
> 
> Mike.


I just noticed you live in West Point. Cool. I live in Layton and "work" (I don't actually have anything to do at work today, thus I'm on here) in Riverdale. Good to know. That's 3 of us in Utah that I'm aware of.


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## rwm (Jun 27, 2016)

You are probably right about Thorium but somehow the possibility of a few grams of an alpha emitter (with a higher quality factor) sitting in my lungs for 50 years makes me think twice.
In the right dose, Thorium can be a problem. It was once used as X Ray contrast (see below). In spite of its half life it does cause cancer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorotrast

Having said that. It would appear that welding exposure has been extensively evaluated and is low. This paper and others would support its safety.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12797558

R


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## intjonmiller (Jun 27, 2016)

Yes, when ingested in considerable volume (many moles of Thorium) it would represent a real threat. That's true of most non-metabolized substances. 

If you're using proper safety equipment when welding, and most particularly when grinding your electrode, it won't matter because you won't be ingesting or respirating *any*. As a general rule, it is a bad idea to ingest any radioactive substance, regardless of half life.


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## John Hasler (Jun 27, 2016)

rwm said:


> You are probably right about Thorium but somehow the possibility of a few grams of an alpha emitter (with a higher quality factor) sitting in my lungs for 50 years makes me think twice.


Several grams of cerium in your lungs would do you every bit as much damage as would several grams of thorium, and not because of radioactivity.  However, getting that much of any metal into your lungs would be quite a challenge.


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## Tony Wells (Jun 28, 2016)

Seems that I recently read, on Jody's site, that there is now a more or less universal tungsten that has no radioactive component at all and works equally well on generally all materials and AC/DC EP and EN. 
Sounds too good to be true. Anyone else catch it?


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## John Hasler (Jun 28, 2016)

Tony Wells said:


> Seems that I recently read, on Jody's site, that there is now a more or less universal tungsten that has no radioactive component at all and works equally well on generally all materials and AC/DC EP and EN.
> Sounds too good to be true. Anyone else catch it?


Tungsten has no stable isotopes.


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## zmotorsports (Jun 28, 2016)

intjonmiller said:


> I just noticed you live in West Point. Cool. I live in Layton and "work" (I don't actually have anything to do at work today, thus I'm on here) in Riverdale. Good to know. That's 3 of us in Utah that I'm aware of.



Nice.  Yes, I live in West Point and work in Layton.  I only know of one other forum member, Dave2176, who lives in Bountiful if memory serves.  Is there anther one that you know of or are you thinking of the same one I mentioned?

Maybe we will all have to get together and start a "Hobby-Machinist's UTAH Chapter" group activity or monthly meeting.

Mike.


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## intjonmiller (Jun 28, 2016)

Silverhawk lives in Cottonwood Heights. I think it would be great to have a group here. As far as I know there isn't any such group or organization here whatsoever.


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## zmotorsports (Jun 28, 2016)

intjonmiller said:


> Silverhawk lives in Cottonwood Heights. I think it would be great to have a group here. As far as I know there isn't any such group or organization here whatsoever.



Agreed.  It would be nice to get us together and talk shop.

Mike.


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## rwm (Jun 28, 2016)

Tony- is this what you were thinking of:

http://store.cyberweld.com/wetuelraea.html

Robert


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## Tony Wells (Jun 28, 2016)

That may be it, Robert. It's probably been 3 months since I saw it. I wish I could remember. Should have just bought some so I'd know. The sales pitch made it seem like you'd never need any other tungsten. But that's sales. I may look around and see if I find it or conclude that the one you linked to is it.


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