# Newall DRO's: NMS300 vs. DP700



## Scott(GA) (Apr 22, 2020)

I am in the market for a DRO for my JET JTM-4VS Knee Mill (Bridgeport Clone).

I'm thinking a Newall brand unit and, at the moment I'm looking at the NMS300 vs. the DP700.

One difference - for a Milling operation - seems to be the DP700 can do Polar Coordinates while the NMS300 cannot do that on its own.

I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on the differences between these two devices.

Scott


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## mksj (Apr 22, 2020)

You also get feed rate on the DP700 which is a nice feature. Newall are a bit of an industry standard, but they are expensive. I opted for a 4 axis EL700 with magnetic scales on my knee mill. You can also get this with an integrated electronic touch probe, but the accuracy on mine is about 0.001". Less expensive alternate is the ES-12B with magnetic scales, a 3 axis system runs around $800-900. The Es-12B has nice tactile buttons and a graphical display. The EL700 has a bit more functions and works well, but uses a touch screen which is a bit of a PTA with dirty oily fingers. I added a screen protector that is cut to size for use on computer tablets, so preserves the touch function and protects the display. The EL700 with 4 axis can sum the knee and spindle, which is a nice feature. Mounting the spindle axis is always a bit of a challenge. The EL700 mounting arm is too short for use on a mill, I fabricated a second extension arm. They do sell an extension arm on their site you just do not know about it until you have installed one of these displays.




Probe tip is missing, I replaced the stock one with one that is more rigid.


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## macardoso (Apr 22, 2020)

On the Ultra cheap end, I picked up a 3 axis DRO with glass scales from AliExpress for $230 shipped that has a lot of nice milling functions and a large tool/work offset memory bank. I didn't want to spend a fortune and it does what I need. They offer them up to 4 axes, and they have a summing function as described above (called "lathe mode" amusingly). It isn't perfect but for the money I paid I am more than impressed. Just wanted to offer another option.









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## Scott(GA) (Apr 22, 2020)

mksj said:


> You also get feed rate on the DP700 which is a nice feature. Newall are a bit of an industry standard, but they are expensive. I opted for a 4 axis EL700 with magnetic scales on my knee mill. You can also get this with an integrated electronic touch probe, but the accuracy on mine is about 0.001". Less expensive alternate is the ES-12B with magnetic scales, a 3 axis system runs around $800-900. The Es-12B has nice tactile buttons and a graphical display. The EL700 has a bit more functions and works well, but uses a touch screen which is a bit of a PTA with dirty oily fingers. I added a screen protector that is cut to size for use on computer tablets, so preserves the touch function and protects the display. The EL700 with 4 axis can sum the knee and spindle, which is a nice feature. Mounting the spindle axis is always a bit of a challenge. The EL700 mounting arm is too short for use on a mill, I fabricated a second extension arm. They do sell an extension arm on their site you just do not know about it until you have installed one of these displays...



mksj,

Thanks!  

According to the NMS300 Manual, it does have Feed Rate.  It seems you use one of the (4?) Function Keys to have it available.

MachineToolProducts has the NMS300 available for about $1200 delivered to my house.  According to those folks, the DP700 & DP1200 will be replaced at some point in the future with the NMS800.  As a result there seems to be a lot of overlap between the NMS300 & the DP700.

It appears the warranty is 2 years for the NMS300 vs. 3/5 years for the DP700, also the NMS300 doesn't appear to have Axis Summing or RS232 output.

I think the lack of Axis Summing would not be an issue for me.  I don't know the impact of not having RS232 output.

Best regards,

Scott


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## Scott(GA) (Apr 22, 2020)

macardoso said:


> On the Ultra cheap end, I picked up a 3 axis DRO with glass scales from AliExpress for $230 shipped that has a lot of nice milling functions and a large tool/work offset memory bank. I didn't want to spend a fortune and it does what I need. They offer them up to 4 axes, and they have a summing function as described above (called "lathe mode" amusingly). It isn't perfect but for the money I paid I am more than impressed. Just wanted to offer another option.



macardoso,

Thanks you very much!

Best regards,

Scott


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## dpb (Apr 22, 2020)

The NMS300 does show feed rate, but only in increments of 6ipm, 0,6,12,18, etc.  I was disappointed in this, and contacted Newall.  Their tech investigated, and told me this was normal.  Makes the feed rate function less useful for a manual mill.


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## mksj (Apr 22, 2020)

Some of the older Newall model's are becoming a bit dated in functions/features, I had looked into the NMS300 for two other individuals one was a mill and the other was a lathe. They both opted for other DRO's when looking at the features and resolutions. The NMS300 did not support 1 micron scales which are often use on the cross slide of a lathes. There were a few other limiting factors when you do side by side comparisons.  I do not see that the RS232 is a deal breaker, had it on all my DRO's and never used it. Interestingly my first DRO was an AcuRite  that had a USB and one could update the software, had lots of ancillary information. I also find the graphical displays more intuitive for things like bolt circles and hole arrays. If you are just looking at the numbers, they all work well.

Installation wise, the Newall scales are an easy install, the downside is the the standard scales are only 10 micron, their DRO's also have proprietary interfaces that only work with their scales.


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## Scott(GA) (Apr 22, 2020)

dpb said:


> The NMS300 does show feed rate, but only in increments of 6ipm, 0,6,12,18, etc.  I was disappointed in this, and contacted Newall.  Their tech investigated, and told me this was normal.  Makes the feed rate function less useful for a manual mill.



dpb,

Hmmm...  that seems weird to a newbie like me.  I had read (I think) that the Feed Rate function would look at everything that was moving and display whichever axis was moving the fastest but I was unaware of this limitation.

One would think that this limitation would be noted in the literature some where.

Does the DP700's Feed Rate work that way as well?

Best regards,

Scott


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## Scott(GA) (Apr 22, 2020)

mksj said:


> Some of the older Newall model's are becoming a bit dated in functions/features, I had looked into the NMS300 for two other individuals one was a mill and the other was a lathe. They both opted for other DRO's when looking at the features and resolutions. The NMS300 did not support 1 micron scales which are often use on the cross slide of a lathes. There were a few other limiting factors when you do side by side comparisons.  I do not see that the RS232 is a deal breaker, had it on all my DRO's and never used it. Interestingly my first DRO was an AcuRite  that had a USB and one could update the software, had lots of ancillary information. I also find the graphical displays more intuitive for things like bolt circles and hole arrays. If you are just looking at the numbers, they all work well.
> 
> Installation wise, the Newall scales are an easy install, the downside is the the standard scales are only 10 micron, their DRO's also have proprietary interfaces that only work with their scales.



mksj,

Thank you very much!

Do you happen to recall what the other two individuals chose instead of the NMS300?

Best regards,

Scott


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## dpb (Apr 22, 2020)

Scott(GA) said:


> dpb,
> 
> Hmmm...  that seems weird to a newbie like me.  I had read (I think) that the Feed Rate function would look at everything that was moving and display whichever axis was moving the fastest but I was unaware of this limitation.


It does display the fastest moving axis, but only in increments of 6 ipm.  It seems strange to me also.  I have clocked it, and it does change from zero to 6ipm right at a measured 6ipm, and then to 12 when actual speed hits 12, etc.


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## mksj (Apr 22, 2020)

The lathe owner went with the DROPros EL-700, it is posted below. The mill owner went wit the Easson 12B, with the 3rd axis on the knee and a battery unit for the spindle. I would go with the magnetic scales if you can, just an easier install and they are more competitively priced these days. I have the Easson 12B on my lathe, the EL700 on the mill. I know of 2 other people who have ordered the Easson 12B with magnetic scales from the UK vendor per the thread below.  I feel the Easson is a nicer display and less buggy than the Ditron D80, this is working with other people that have done DRO installs with the D80. A number of different options, but a lot of PM-935/949 owners have the Easson 12B. Lots of other threads, so lots of choices.








						NEW ACRA 1640TE
					

The machine was ordered mid December of 2017 from ACRA Machinery. The machine took a few weeks to arrive from Taiwan and was shipped to the port of LA, then onto Ranch Cucamonga where ACRA is located. The machine was then delivered to my location via flatbed. The machine sustained a fair amount...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				











						Ditron D80 and Easson 12B DRO Kits w/ Magnetic Scales now available
					

Ditron offers quite a few different DRO's, more recently they can be purchased with magnetic scales for not much more than glass scales. There new D80 display is a graphical interface which is a bit more adaptable to different types of machines. The pricing for a DRO with magnetic scales use to...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




There are less expensive options with glass scales, but I the Easson 12B with magnetic scales would be my preference over the NMS300 if you are going with 3 axis.


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## hwelecrepair (Apr 23, 2020)

If I remember correctly, the NMS300 and the DP500 use a different reader head, which makes the actual DRO box and the reader head not interchangeable with the other Newall products.  The smaller warranty time and this are two of the biggest reasons for the price difference between the NMS300/DP500 and the standard Newall products.  

Jon


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## Scott(GA) (May 1, 2020)

I have contacted Newall asking if the DP700's feed rate reads out like the NMS300 does (in 6-inch/minute increments).  That was over a week ago and haven't heard back.  The fellow did indicate they were short of people at the moment ...and I understand.

Does anyone reading this have access to a DP700 and, if so, could they report on how the feed rate is displayed?

Thank you.

Scott


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## StevSmar (May 7, 2022)

Scott(GA) said:


> …According to those folks, the DP700 & DP1200 will be replaced at some point in the future with the NMS800…
> 
> …also the NMS300 doesn't appear to have Axis Summing…


I’ve been looking at the Newall DRO’s, it certainly seems like there are other products which are significantly cheaper and with more features.
I guess that’s how it goes when a product becomes a default “industry standard”.

No sign of the NMS800 yet…


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## mksj (May 7, 2022)

Newall, and a number of other higher end DRO manufactures cater to the industrial end, and they are more durable in a work environment. Hobby machinist for most part, are more interest in the best bang for the buck. Also technologies are changing and DRO manufactures seem to be very slow in evolving their products. At the price level of the Newall, I had issues with their lower end DRO's not supporting 1 micron scales often used on the cross slide of lathes, and their scales maximum resolution is limited to 5um. THere units do work well on mills but they are 2-3X as expensive for similar DRO's with magnetic scales and similar features. I also feel there are very good options using tablet based DRO's.


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## will.mcray (May 16, 2022)

I’d say for a mill, go with the 700. For a lathe, the 300 is fine. 

Will


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kiwi_007 (May 28, 2022)

mksj said:


> Newall, and a number of other higher end DRO manufactures cater to the industrial end, and they are more durable in a work environment. Hobby machinist for most part, are more interest in the best bang for the buck. Also technologies are changing and DRO manufactures seem to be very slow in evolving their products. At the price level of the Newall, I had issues with their lower end DRO's not supporting 1 micron scales often used on the cross slide of lathes, and their scales maximum resolution is limited to 5um. THere units do work well on mills but they are 2-3X as expensive for similar DRO's with magnetic scales and similar features. I also feel there are very good options using tablet based DRO's.


Actually most manual machines wouldn’t be able to achieve accuracy of 5 micron so why do they need a 1 micron readout?

The newall scales are the easiest scale to mount and the system is bulletproof, it works in conditions other systems wouldn’t, but they are designed for ”industrial“ use.

I've seen the cheaper Asian glass scale systems fail in a short time frame in industrial use and fitting new dros is time consuming that isn’t making money.

There are probably more hobbyist with machines in their workshops today than there were 20 years ago, which is why we have seen the increased availability of cheap dros.


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## mksj (May 28, 2022)

With a 5 micron scale which is only available on the microsyn 5, on the lathe in diameter mode the the display increments in +/-0.0004" increments, with a 10 micron it would be +/-0.0008". The NMS300 previously did not interpolate a resolution below 0.0002" in radius mode and is a plain Jane display when you factor into alternative DRO's which are less expensive. The DP700 does have smaller selectable resolutions, but you are still limited by the accuracy of the scale. If you require 0.001" or less turning precision, then there are limitations to using a 5 micron scale and also depends on the DRO as to how it calculates/interpolates finer resolution settings. This also effects how the it displays calculations and resolution in diameter mode.  The standard these days would be a 5 micron scales for mills, and a 1 micron on a lathe cross slide. I have used 5um scales on the lathe cross slide and it was a real PTA hitting target diameters based on the DRO, and needed to revert to mechanical readings. The NMS300 runs around ~$1500 US for a lathe with Mirosyn scales, the DP700 ~$2200 US.  I feel there are better valued DRO's available with magnetic scales. Yes the Newall scales would be an easier install, but the difference relative to other current magnetic scales is small. Considering you can can get the Easson 12B with 3 magnetic scales and a 1 micron cross slide for ~$800 shipped from Machine-DRO-UK or from PM/QMT the MagXact Magnetic MX-200L 2 Axis Lathe LCD DRO also with a 1 micron cross slide for ~$1000, these offer better options for less cost in the US.


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## davidpbest (May 28, 2022)

I have a DP700 on my PM-935, a DP700 on my Multirouter, and had a Newall C80 on my RF-45.  For mill applications they can’t be beat IMO.  A lathe is a different matter since the Newall scales are not available in 1u resolution for the cross slide.  The DP700 has feed rate display for the currently moving axis which I find extremely helpful when setting up the power feeder based on Feed/Speed calculator output.  You can see the full build/install of the 5u Microsyn setup on my mill at the following link.  I’ve used Newall for 25 years, but have also installed several other brands on mills and lathes owned by friends and the Newall system is by far the easiest to install and get aligned.  The DP700 head/display unit is built like a tank - the DROPros EL400 I have on my lathe is a toy in comparison.









						Newall DRO Installation on PM935
					

Installing Newall microsyn DP700 DRO on XY table and knee, and Mitutoyo Digital Scale on the quill on PM935 J-Head milling machine.




					www.flickr.com


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## davidpbest (May 28, 2022)

Scott(GA) said:


> I have contacted Newall asking if the DP700's feed rate reads out like the NMS300 does (in 6-inch/minute increments).  That was over a week ago and haven't heard back.  The fellow did indicate they were short of people at the moment ...and I understand.
> 
> Does anyone reading this have access to a DP700 and, if so, could they report on how the feed rate is displayed?
> 
> ...


You can see the feed rate (FR) displayed in the following crappy photo - in this case I have the DRO in Imperial mode so the displayed figure is inches./minute.  It changes to meters/minute in metric mode.  If you want more photos or a video, let me know.


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## davidpbest (May 28, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> I’ve been looking at the Newall DRO’s, it certainly seems like there are other products which are significantly cheaper and with more features.
> I guess that’s how it goes when a product becomes a default “industry standard”.
> 
> No sign of the NMS800 yet…


The difference is consumer versus industrial grade.


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## davidpbest (May 28, 2022)

mksj said:


> With a 5 micron scale which is only available on the microsyn 5, on the lathe in diameter mode the the display increments in +/-0.0004" increments, with a 10 micron it would be +/-0.0008". The NMS300 previously did not interpolate a resolution below 0.0002" in radius mode and is a plain Jane display when you factor into alternative DRO's which are less expensive. The DP700 does have smaller selectable resolutions, but you are still limited by the accuracy of the scale. If you require 0.001" or less turning precision, then there are limitations to using a 5 micron scale and also depends on the DRO as to how it calculates/interpolates finer resolution settings. This also effects how the it displays calculations and resolution in diameter mode.  The standard these days would be a 5 micron scales for mills, and a 1 micron on a lathe cross slide. I have used 5um scales on the lathe cross slide and it was a real PTA hitting target diameters based on the DRO, and needed to revert to mechanical readings. The NMS300 runs around ~$1500 US for a lathe with Mirosyn scales, the DP700 ~$2200 US.  I feel there are better valued DRO's available with magnetic scales. Yes the Newall scales would be an easier install, but the difference relative to other current magnetic scales is small. Considering you can can get the Easson 12B with 3 magnetic scales and a 1 micron cross slide for ~$800 shipped from Machine-DRO-UK or from PM/QMT the MagXact Magnetic MX-200L 2 Axis Lathe LCD DRO also with a 1 micron cross slide for ~$1000, these offer better options for less cost in the US.


The biggest difference - beyond installation ease - is that the DP700 display unit is built like a tank with industrial quality throughout.  The other difference of course is that the Newall manual for advanced functions and calibration is comprehensible in the English-speaking world.


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