# South Bend 9A restoration happening w/pics!!



## LX Kid

I bought a SB 9A off eBay and should be here in a week or 10 days.  In my "enthusiasm" I didn't check everything in detail and will need a lot of work and parts.  I plan on salvaging and swapping parts off my 9C to make it complete and original.  Here are a few pics of what I'm dealing with.  Worst part is the spindle pulley shaft is spot welded into the spindle shaft.  "Maybe" it can be repaired by removing the spot welds.


----------



## SLK001

You gotta think that someone who is careless, lazy or stupid enough to just weld a pulley on a precision part like a spindle would have done equally careless, lazy or stupid things in other places that are not shown.  The least of your problems is that with that setup, your lathe is running too fast.


----------



## SLK001

Did you get the flimsy table and the cigar boxes of stuff with the lathe?


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> Did you get the flimsy table and the cigar boxes of stuff with the lathe?


Yes I'm getting all the "wonderful" things along with it including the table.  Be kinda interesting to see how fast/slow it will run with the back gear engaged.  Just another one of life's bad decisions but "in a hundred years what will it matter?"  LoL I think my "diamond in the rough" is just a lump of coal.


----------



## DavidR8

The serial number falls in the 1944 range. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chipper5783

Well, that is quite a project you have there.  I really think you'd want to restore the original drive - and recover the pass through capability + decent torque over a broad speed range.  You a TTA, thread dial, sort of a QCTP, QC gear box plus "all the wonderful things" in the boxes.

I'd say you got a reasonable project, now it is just quite a bit of work, but the bones are there to have a workable lathe.


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> Be kinda interesting to see how fast/slow it will run with the back gear engaged.



With the drive set up like it is right now, the back gear cannot ever be engaged.  The drive is straight to the spindle.


----------



## benmychree

LX Kid said:


> Yes I'm getting all the "wonderful" things along with it including the table.  Be kinda interesting to see how fast/slow it will run with the back gear engaged.  Just another one of life's bad decisions but "in a hundred years what will it matter?"  LoL I think my "diamond in the rough" is just a lump of coal.


The back gear will not function with the hokey vee belt drive.


----------



## woodtickgreg

It's definitely a doable project, you even got the taper attachment. I'd probably be looking for a replacement spindle if it was mine. You might find one on ebay in time. Put the machine back to how it was originally and you will have something to be proud of. I had to replace the whole head stock on my lathe when I restored it, not the end of the world. It's a joy to use now.


----------



## LX Kid

benmychree said:


> The back gear will not function with the hokey vee belt drive.


That's a good point!  Gotta get everything back to original to make it work as designed.  I'm already in a little deep so what's a few more thousand dollars to get it right!!!!   Ha LoL


----------



## SLK001

What's really bad about the drive setup is that you can no longer open the cover to oil the gears and their shafts.  I wonder just how bad the gears and the dry shafts are on that unit.  Although I would hate getting abrasives that close to my lathe, I would take an angle grinder with a cut-off blade and cut the welds, then see if you can push the contraption out from the front.


----------



## Chuck K

The spindle might not have to be replaced. Cut the welds and clean it up.  Then see what you have.


----------



## LX Kid

The spindle shaft is smaller on that end.  I should think just take apart as usual as it should not interfere with the bearings.  Once removed the spindle could be evaluated for repair or replacement.


----------



## LX Kid

Does anyone have a pic of how the QCGB attaches to the lathe bed?  Are there threaded holes into the lathe bed?  Thanks


----------



## DavidR8

If I recall correctly the gearbox is threaded and the bed has through holes. 

The screws are visible under the headstock 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ericc

Wow, that is really janky.  I love that word.  That part of the spindle should be pretty non-critical.  If I got this lathe for a really good price, and had to use it right away, I'd just cut that shaft off with a hacksaw and deal with it slowly.  Avoid the urge to attack it with a dirty grinder or a torch, unless you have a real artist to work on it for you.  Could cause a mess.


----------



## Choiliefan

Not to add insult to injury, but the crossfeed and tailstock handwheels are Craftsman.
My Maximat came via ebay and needed new 1.5"-8 spindle (most of the threads were machined away) and fiber headstock gears, feed gear bracket and a few more expensive goodies.
Trucking from FL to NC was reasonable though...  
You have a worthy project.


----------



## Choiliefan

I found your auction and see the seller is shipping through Fastenal.
Please let us know how that works out.


----------



## LX Kid

Yes I was considering just cutting off the last 1/4" as it is not that important.  I just bought a counter-shaft assy for $240 off eBad.  Hopefully my new project lathe will be here by week's end.  Now if I can find a belt tensioner handle for cheap.  I can make the turn buckle adjuster.


----------



## DavidR8

LX Kid said:


> Yes I was considering just cutting off the last 1/4" as it is not that important. I just bought a counter-shaft assy for $240 off eBad. Hopefully my new project lathe will be here by week's end. Now if I can find a belt tensioner handle for cheap. I can make the turn buckle adjuster.



Did you get the spindle I posted?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LX Kid

DavidR8 said:


> Did you get the spindle I posted?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes I saw that one as well as others.  I need to wait and see if mine is salvagable before spending on that.  What I need most is a belt tensioner handle as I now have everything else.


----------



## DavidR8

LX Kid said:


> Yes I saw that one as well as others.  I need to wait and see if mine is salvagable before spending on that.  What I need most is a belt tensioner handle as I now have everything else.


Sadly that one is gone. I thought you might have bought it.


----------



## LX Kid

I bought the pictured items but have bid on the tensioner assembly.  I think and hope that I have all my investment done.  Depends on the spindle should it "have" to be replaced.  Opinion time!  What would a restored 9A be worth?  Not that I'll be selling it because it's the one I want instead of the SB 9C and my Grizzly 3-In-1 G9729.  Wiffy is probably wondering if one could be converted into a sewing machine or washing machine!  LoL


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> Yes I was considering just cutting off the last 1/4" as it is not that important.



Don't cut off any from the spindle.  That "last quarter inch" is a lot more important that you may realize.  Without it, no stock collet assembly will fit.  Also, you may need to mount a drawbar there for milling cutters.  Without the extra 1/4", chips may not fall clear of the gear cover, but will instead fall INTO the gears.  My feeling is that you will be able to salvage the spindle.  Take it to a machine shop and have them cut the welds off, then grind the remaining welds flush to the rest of the spindle (you'll need a lathe with a large bore to do this).


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> Don't cut off any from the spindle.  That "last quarter inch" is a lot more important that you may realize.  Without it, no stock collet assembly will fit.  Also, you may need to mount a drawbar there for milling cutters.  Without the extra 1/4", chips may not fall clear of the gear cover, but will instead fall INTO the gears.  My feeling is that you will be able to salvage the spindle.  Take it to a machine shop and have them cut the welds off, then grind the remaining welds flush to the rest of the spindle (you'll need a lathe with a large bore to do this).


I'll keep this in mind when the lathe finally arrives and I can check out the spindle.   I guess there isn't all that much leftover room to if I remove 1/4".  Good point of chips falling into gears though.  I'll probably never own a draw bar due to the cost and need.  Pic of spindle on my 9C.


----------



## LX Kid

I was thinking of how to remove the tack welds on the spindle and came up with a method that just might work.  Looks like it "might" have four or five tack welds.  Hacksaw off the tube, hoping it's a tube, that's welded inside the spindle flush with the spindle's end. (Cover gears)  Use dremel to grind down welds.  From the chuck end use proper diameter drift and hammer what's left inside on out.  Use a round file on the inside of spindle and a flat file on the outside to clean things up.  Even just cutting off the added piece flush would be enough if it's a tube and not solid bar.


----------



## SLK001

Don't hammer - it can damage the bearings - and the head - and the spindle.  The rod looks solid to me, with a piece of copper pipe as a shim for the pulley - you will have to wait to receive the lathe to determine this.  Good luck using a file - these spindles are harder than a whore's heart.  The Dremel should be able to grind the welds down.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> Don't hammer - it can damage the bearings - and the head - and the spindle.  The rod looks solid to me, with a piece of copper pipe as a shim for the pulley - you will have to wait to receive the lathe to determine this.  Good luck using a file - these spindles are harder than a whore's heart.  The Dremel should be able to grind the welds down.


I guess a step was left out!  (Remove spindle from head.)  Would still have to protect journal surfaces from scratching before sledge hammer demolition pounding!  LoL  At worst case I'll have to get a new spindle but I think it's can be salvaged.


----------



## DavidR8

So... did the lathe arrive?


----------



## LX Kid

DavidR8 said:


> So... did the lathe arrive?


Your very perceptive!  I picked it up from FASNEL this morning.  In order to get it off my truck I had to take it apart piece by piece and take it to the back yard.  I'm going to need help to get the lathe bed and table off though.  I have been working on it all day and just now came inside to take a soaking bath. ( All my body parts are aching!!!)  Later this evening I'll post some pics.  There isn't a single assembly that doesn't have issues.  This lathe is a piece of "junk" and I paid 3 times it's worth.  Last time I'll buy off eBay or Craigslist without inspecting it first.  Lesson learned, un-learned and re-learned!  There's just no help for the "dumb!"


----------



## DavidR8

I'm sorry to hear that. 
I hope it can be resurrected with a minimum of additional expense


----------



## LX Kid

Looks like I've got about 90% of the investment spent.  I pre-ordered parts I knew I would need before lathe arrived.


----------



## LX Kid

More pics.


----------



## LX Kid

I know that this lathe has been riden hard and long and put away super dirty and unfed with oil.


----------



## LX Kid

Even after I cut the spot welds on the spindle the splines are pretty much shot.  "Lot" of use wear on them and they could break and give me more grief. See pic in response #33 above.  Even the QCGBox had been welded up.  Looks like I have a $2   000 investment which would only sell for, after restoration, for about $1500 on a good day.  When I finish with it at least I know it will be a good lathe.  Guess they will have to bury me with it.


----------



## LX Kid

Every single oil passage, in the QCGBox, were plugged up and there are a lot of them!  They are now open with a lot of tedious work.  The two spindle end bearings show lot of wear.  "Well in a hundred years what will it matter?"


----------



## LX Kid

Just ordered a 9A used spindle set and "supposed" to be in excellent condition.


----------



## LX Kid

"Where can I buy a new screw data plate for the QCGBox?"  i see a lot of lathes with new data plates so they have to come from somewhere?


----------



## DavidR8

New gearbox perhaps?









						South Bend Lathe Heavy 10 - Rebuild Parts Kit & Illustrated Guide: Model 10L 10R  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for South Bend Lathe Heavy 10 - Rebuild Parts Kit & Illustrated Guide: Model 10L 10R at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					rover.ebay.com
				







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LX Kid

DavidR8 said:


> New gearbox perhaps?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> South Bend Lathe Heavy 10 - Rebuild Parts Kit & Illustrated Guide: Model 10L 10R  | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for South Bend Lathe Heavy 10 - Rebuild Parts Kit & Illustrated Guide: Model 10L 10R at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> 
> 
> 
> rover.ebay.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't think I need a new QCGB.  Just need to give it a little TLC.  Gonna clean the weld cracks with a dremel and use JB Weld before painting.  It's not non-functional just looks terrible.  QCGB hasn't been used in years as all the gears were caked with 80 years of crud and wouldn't even turn.


----------



## BrentH

I think I might have a good retirement "keep me busy" thing.......wow! these older lathes are awesome...great for the hobby folks and industry drops them off the  map because the bigger guys didn't buy...

There are so many lathes going "cheap"  at auctions here in Ontario here (Canada) or even buying a total lathe and (sadly) parting it out to keep others going.......


Canadian dollars = so like 75% in US?









						Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds
					

Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




					www.kijiji.ca
				












						Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds
					

Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




					www.kijiji.ca
				












						Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds
					

Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




					www.kijiji.ca
				












						Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds
					

Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




					www.kijiji.ca
				












						Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds
					

Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




					www.kijiji.ca
				





There are a lot of parts being sold off etc.   the old smaller lathes are the best.

I have been shipping parts of an old 9" Utilathe all over Canada and the US to keep the hobby guys going - so cool!  4 lathes live out of 1 messed up and abused one.

I  do not want to be a stock hoarder of parts but if I can assist someone in preserving a lathe.....let me know


----------



## SLK001

You might want to make a claim against the seller thru ebay.  Did he disclose everything wrong / broken with the lathe?  Even the frozen QCGB should have been disclosed.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> You might want to make a claim against the seller thru ebay.  Did he disclose everything wrong / broken with the lathe?  Even the frozen QCGB should have been disclosed.


I sent him an email of my dissatisfaction of it's condition for what I paid.  He embellished quite a bit.  I already knew that I was going to have to buy a counter-shaft assembly.  He even sent me a video of it the lathe running and it's functions working except the QCGB.  The QCGB couldn't have worked cause it was too functed up with crud.  Like I said earlier, "A fool is soon parted with his money!"  That's me!   I'll get it squared away and it will be nice and sweet running.


----------



## LX Kid

It's going to be a lot of "fun" putting that QCGB back together with all the parts.  Bet it takes me couple times to get it correct.  Glad I pre-ordered the felt seal kit and it's here.  The apron also looks like a challange but have not tore into that yet.  Think I have enough to worry with at the moment.  There was so much swarf and crud so I used a high pressure washer on everything after disassembly.  Lot of cleaning to be done with mineral spirits and brushes.


----------



## MontanaLon

LX Kid said:


> It's going to be a lot of "fun" putting that QCGB back together with all the parts.  Bet it takes me couple times to get it correct.  Glad I pre-ordered the felt seal kit and it's here.  The apron also looks like a challange but have not tore into that yet.  Think I have enough to worry with at the moment.  There was so much swarf and crud so I used a high pressure washer on everything after disassembly.  Lot of cleaning to be done with mineral spirits and brushes.


Yep the QCGB is a square SOB and took me about 1/2 dozen tries to get it right. If I were to do it again that is really the only part I would have left together to replace the wicks. Find a bucket of carb cleaner, remove the old wicks and let it soak for a long while. It would be even better to put it in a ultrasonic cleaner to warm the carb cleaner up. Then replace the wicks.


----------



## martik777

My first 9A was almost as bad, but after a good cleanup and replacing the worm gear in the apron, it worked fine for years. Do you have a photo of the cast iron bearings? How's the bed wear?  

I wouldn't totally disassemble the QCGB or apron though, a good flushing with solvent will suffice.


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> My first 9A was almost as bad, but after a good cleanup and replacing the worm gear in the apron, it worked fine for years. Do you have a photo of the cast iron bearings? How's the bed wear?
> 
> I wouldn't totally disassemble the QCGB or apron though, a good flushing with solvent will suffice.


Already took the QCGB apart and a good thing cause every single oil passage was gunked up.  To do a good restoration I believe everything should be taken apart, inspected and make sure all is well.  Bed is not the best as it has a lot of dings in it.   I'll get a pic of the headstock bearings in a bit.


----------



## LX Kid

Should have seen everything before pressure washing.


----------



## SLK001

At the bottom of the pic of the back of the apron, which shows the half-nut, there is a gear.  Where did that gear come from?  It is seriously worn and will have to be replaced.

How did you get the gear cover off with the spindle "attachment"?


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> At the bottom of the pic of the back of the apron, which shows the half-nut, there is a gear.  Where did that gear come from?  It is seriously worn and will have to be replaced.
> 
> How did you get the gear cover off with the spindle "attachment"?


Loosened cover hinge and slide off the bed.  I'm guessing you talking about the worm gear.  The worm gear has to be curved in order to ride along the lead screw.  That said, yes there is wear on the worm gear but will just have to work as is unless it fails then I'll replace.


----------



## LX Kid

Gotta find a weak minded person, with strong back, that can help me get the lathe bed and table off my truck!!  I'm guessing the lathe bed weighs around 150 lbs.  (Can't believe it's 84 degrees in the middle of January here in Tampa, Fl.)


----------



## SLK001

It's not the worm gear, but the first pic in post #33.



			https://www.hobby-machinist.com/attachments/20200113_123014-jpg.310484/
		


At least your lead screw looks pristine, so your half-nuts probably are too.


----------



## DavidR8

I was also wondering what that gear is for as it's taller than the apron.


----------



## LX Kid

DavidR8 said:


> I was also wondering what that gear is for as it's taller than the apron.


I believe that gear is for selecting in and out directions for the powered cross feed.


----------



## LX Kid

Used Dremel to clean up weld up voids and put first coat of J-B Weld.  From back side it was not welded but seems secure.

Update: 9pm    Scraped first coat of JB Weld and added a second smoothing coat.


----------



## macardoso

LX, gotta give you credit for laughing about getting a rough lathe and sticking through it. You'll be proud of the work you put into it even if the value isn't what you paid. This is a hobby after all


----------



## SLK001

You might want to take the QCGB to a welding shop and have the casting brazed.  This will make it a lot stronger.  Also, take the time now to remove the gear box index plate - you can push the pins out from the back.


----------



## martik777

I don't see any ridge on the bed, it may be ok, just stone the dings flat. How is the wear on the bottom of the saddle?


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> I don't see any ridge on the bed, it may be ok, just stone the dings flat. How is the wear on the bottom of the saddle?


You would have to zoom in on the lathe bed pic, poor photography, to see them.  Haven't got to the saddle yet as still working on the headstock, which I ordered another spindel, and the QCGB.


----------



## finsruskw

Following this thread as I am going down the same rabbit hole later this year.

Question: Are all the consumables needed for a restoration like this available somewhere in kit form that would include everything needed?


----------



## DavidR8

finsruskw said:


> Following this thread as I am going down the same rabbit hole later this year.
> 
> Question: Are all the consumables needed for a restoration like this available somewhere in kit form that would include everything needed?


A felt kit and rebuild manual are available on EBay.








						Items for sale by stevewb | eBay
					

Shop eBay for great deals from stevewb!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## LX Kid

It just gets better all the time. On the QCGBox the reight select lever is busted and the geat roller bearing fell apart.


----------



## Choiliefan

I suspect the seller is crooked and should be reported to ebay and some refund given.
Looking at the pic of his shop I know he's no novice and took advantage of you.
He obviously slapped a bunch of crap together and played dumb about it.


----------



## LX Kid

Except for the motor pulley and spindle pulley, being they are their new, I think he picked it up somewhere and just wanted to make it run and sell it.  The lathe didn’t look like it had been into at all.  But he did sell it for a super premium price.


----------



## finsruskw

OUCH!
Any way to access the original listing?


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> It just gets better all the time. On the QCGBox the reight select lever is busted and the geat roller bearing fell apart.



Is the lever busted, or just missing a chip?  Also, the roller bearing should be easily obtainable.  

I still say you should make a claim on ebay.  I did that on a computer that I bought that was listed as "100% original and complete".  So many parts were swapped for inferior parts and missing, that I opened a claim.  I gave ebay the original specs for the computer, then what was actually in it and won.  I got all my money back AND I didn't even have to return the computer!


----------



## DavidR8

I second the idea of a claim. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Choiliefan

Far as the QC is concerned I worry that the holes for the shafts and bearing were properly aligned before welding it up.
Ebay will approve any request for a refund.  Doesn't matter if the listing says AS-IS, Paypal (presuming you used it) will freeze the sellers account until things are rectified.
It's a matter of principal, no?


----------



## LX Kid

finsruskw said:


> OUCH!
> Any way to access the original listing?


Here is what was included in the item description on eBay.

I have a 1945 9" south bend lathe 18" between centers.
This isn't the prettiest lathe and it's kind of a franken lathe but still works great!
Has a taper attachment!!!!
Cross cut works, threading works, and power feed works!
Comes with some tooling, come with a live center, dead center a couple drill chucks
Full set of cutting tools
6" calipers
T handle allen wrenches
Comes with the table it sits on


----------



## Choiliefan

Here's the listing:








						South Bend Lathe 9 Machinist *FREE SHIPPING*  | eBay
					

<p dir="ltr"></p> <p dir="ltr">I have a 1945 9" south bend lathe 18" between centers.<br> This isn't the prettiest lathe and it's kind of a franken lathe but still works great!<br> Has a taper attachment!!!!<br> Cross cut works, threading works, and power feed works!<br> Comes with some tooling...



					www.ebay.com
				



Click see original listing for the pics.
If you click on his sold items you will find a plethora of machine shop related items:








						Items for sale by daughty70 | eBay
					

Shop eBay for great deals from daughty70!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## finsruskw

Probably cost him 1/3 of what he was asking to ship it to you.
What do you figure, if anything,  the extra "wonderful" stuff that came with it worth?


----------



## DavidR8

That seller knew exactly what he had (or didn't have)


----------



## Latinrascalrg1

Choiliefan said:


> Items for sale by daughty70 | eBay
> 
> 
> Shop eBay for great deals from daughty70!
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com


If im not mistaken that guy is a member here.


----------



## DavidR8

Latinrascalrg1 said:


> If im not mistaken that guy is a member here.


Yes he is, seems to only be listing in the for sale section


----------



## LX Kid

Finally got it off the truck and threw that "wonderful" table in the trash.  Primed and painted the QCGB and put the gears on the tree for safe keeping and organized.  I think I have a couple gears in wrong spot and will have to verify before assemble.


----------



## DavidR8

Wow, that's quite a transformation! Well done


----------



## MontanaLon

Damn, I wish I had seen this before you took the plunge. I had actually seen that lathe on FB before and the guy is about 35 miles from me and I would have been happy to check it out for you. I have only dealt with him once and he ghosted me after I showed interest in an item he had listed on CL. He sells lots of machines but I will be wary of him since the first incident and now this.

Definitely file a complaint with ebay, he needs to make this right.


----------



## LX Kid

Can someone verify my gear placement and orientation on the tree?  Pretty sure right side is correct but left side is worrysome.  The 20 tooth gear has a slot but no key to fit into.


----------



## LX Kid

Is my gear orientation correct for the tumbler?


----------



## SLK001

Aren't you using the rebuild manual?


----------



## Latinrascalrg1

SLK001 said:


> Aren't you using the rebuild manual?


Manual..........Who NEEDS a Stinkin Manual!!!


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> Aren't you using the rebuild manual?


Nope I don't have one.  Is there a clear pic or schematic that can be downloaded from somewhere?


----------



## LX Kid

Looks like the tumbler arm is going to be usable albeit being broken.  From the pic, hard to see, but the tumbler arm does lock into the last slot.


----------



## SLK001

Latinrascalrg1 said:


> Manual..........Who NEEDS a Stinkin Manual!!!



Apparently, he does...


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> Nope I don't have one.  Is there a clear pic or schematic that can be downloaded from somewhere?



There is an Army Tech Manual out there covering the 9" lathe written during WWII.  I don't have it, but I have seen it before.  It has exploded diagrams of all the assemblies in enough detail that it could be of use to you.  I would definitely suggest that you pick up Steve Brooks rebuild book off ebay (get the book and the rebuild kit, ie, felts, gaskets and sundry items).  I thought that you had this manual for your 9C rebuild, but I could be mistaken.  The Brooks book will give you the detailed instructions on disassembly and reassembly for your lathe - worth its weight in gold.

With that book, you won't NEED to ask questions like that above.


----------



## Choiliefan

There's something in here:


			9" south bend gear box schematic - Google Search
		

:


----------



## LX Kid

Choiliefan said:


> There's something in here:
> 
> 
> 9" south bend gear box schematic - Google Search
> 
> 
> :


Yes that will be helpful.  That one gear is the one that goes on the lead screw.  The one clear pic is overlaid with "Photobucket."  Wish whoever posted it would post a pic here that was not Photobucket.  They stole all my pics a few years ago holding them for hostage unless I paid their outrageous new charges.  (Despise them now!)

Got to thinking about and that 20 tooth gear and think I was trying to put too many gears on the tree.  I believe it goes on the lead screw.  Thank you for your help!!!!!!


----------



## DavidR8

Try this and see if it helps at all. The 9A and 10K use the same gearbox and many other parts.


----------



## Choiliefan

^^ Wow, that's a terrific link.


----------



## LX Kid

Choiliefan said:


> ^^ Wow, that's a terrific link.


Thank you very much for that pic of the breakdown!   "Ask and ye shall receive."  Who said that?  LoL  ( I know .)

Been working all morning on the bed and there are at least, or were, four colors of paint on it.  I'm probably making a mistake by not painting it with a gun and using some hardener in it but Rust-O-Lium rattle cans are soo easy to use.  Closer inspection of the bed there are a lot of dings in the ways.  I used a set of diamond flat stones to knock the high spots down and hope things will be ok.  I'll post a pic in a few.


----------



## LX Kid

DavidR8 said:


> Try this and see if it helps at all. The 9A and 10K use the same gearbox and many other parts.


Your pdf indicated that I did have some orientation errors on the left side gears.  Glad I asked for help.  Thanks!


----------



## LX Kid

Latinrascalrg1 said:


> Manual..........Who NEEDS a Stinkin Manual!!!


Evidently you and I are a little older to understand the Movie "High Sierra's" with Bogart.  The Mexican bandit said, "Badge!  We don't need no sticking badge!"  LoL


----------



## LX Kid

LX Kid said:


> Your pdf indicated that I did have some orientation errors on the left side gears.  Glad I asked for help.  Thanks!


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> Evidently you and I are a little older to understand the Movie "High Sierra's" with Bogart.  The Mexican bandit said, "Badge!  We don't need no sticking badge!"  LoL



I think that that line was from _Blazing Saddles.  _The_ Treasure of the Sierra Madreas _saying was, "Badges?  We no need no badges... We are the Federalies.."

Concerning your gear box rebuild, there are some Youtube vids that might help you.  I think that Hannigan has one on a 9" SB.


----------



## LX Kid

I think I've exhausted myself with youBoob last few days.  The schematic was all I really needed.  Have ordered a bearing, B-88, for tumbler arm. Laying QCGB to the side and working on bed for now.  Now as I finish a sub-assembly I'll be able set it on the bed and keep it out from under foot.   Being this lathe is so beat up I'm wondering if it might have been used in a high school shop class at some point in its long life.


----------



## LX Kid

Got a response back from the seller where I asked for a $400 refund.  Of course he threw all the fault on me instead of owning up that he sold a piece of junk for at "least" twice it's value.  He says he'll only pay $200 refund.  Below is what he sent me this morning.


*New message from: daughty70 (153
	

)*
*I will give you $200 back for the counter pulley assembly. I had bought this in a bulk sale. I told you I did nothing to this lathe. I did not take the spindle apart, I did not take anything apart. I made sure all functions worked and they did. So it was being sold as is. I sent you a video of it running with the QCGB being used, and nothing was hidden, pictures on the listed showed the crack in the gear box, and if you had zoomed in on the pictures you can see the ways. I told you from the start the original counter pulley system was missing. So nothing was hidden, again I told you had did NOTHING to this lathe and was being sold as is. Plus you have already sent me pictures of the "allegedly" broken spindle nut and bad splines on the spindle. So this tells me you've already taken this machine apart, so for all I know you broke the nut trying to take it off, and the picture of the spindle splines is a picture of it off the lathe, so how do I know that that's not from another machine? So again, $200 is what I'll refund.*


----------



## SLK001

I zoomed in on the QCGB and there is no clear indication of a crack.  The "how do I know that that's not from another machine..." is just a smoke screen saying, "I knew it was a piece of crap, I've got your money and I intend on keeping it..."

Tell him, "To make this right, I need my original offer of $400 back from you.  It appears that we can't agree, so I will just open a case on ebay".
See if THIS moves him to "better" action.


----------



## LX Kid

So what could eBay do about it?  

Got my lathe bed cleaned and painted yesterday.  Man that was a hard 3.5 hour job.  Waiting for a spindle and tumbler arm bearing.  Don't really want to tear into the apron, compound or taper attachment because I'll have too many parts laying around and I have no room to keep everything from getting misplaced.   Guess I could put the gears back into the QCGB but am not looking forward to that because of all the wicks that have to be dealt with.


----------



## macardoso

When I cleaned my lathe, I labeled each part based on the exploded parts diagram. Really saved me and made reassembly easy. Than and take a million pictures of things before you disassemble in case you need to go look at how something went together.


----------



## Choiliefan

Seller sounds like a scoundrel.
Tell him his rep is being trashed on hobby-machinist and to do the right thing or his ebay feedback will suffer the same fate.
He suffers from a feeling of entitlement...


----------



## mattthemuppet2

it's a simple "item not as described" claim. You won't be able to claim for the weird pulley welded to the spindle and maybe not for the worn spindle splines (can't remember if they were visible in the pictures) but the cracked QCGB you definitely can as the lever was in position to mask it and it wasn't mentioned in the write up. Non-obvious and non-visible wear (like that worn apron worm gear) aren't grounds for a claim, as the seller could genuinely not have known about it, but everything else that was obvious and not described or photographed is grounds for a claim.

eBay is very pro-buyer, so make a claim with them first. If they won't back you up (and I'm betting they will), then file a claim with Paypal and your credit card. The credit card company will most likely get you back all of your money as it is a fraudulent transaction. Just make sure you don't run out of time as eBay has a time limit (45 days?) within which you can file a claim. As others have said eBay and Paypal can freeze accounts until a claim is settled so there's a lot of leverage over the seller. I would think a reasonable refund would be the purchase price ($1500) minus shipping ($250?) and say $500 fair value for the lathe. Or all of it and teach the seller a lesson in honesty.


----------



## LX Kid

Thinking to just take the $200 and put this past me as "another" lesson learned.
I put the QCGB back together minus right tumbler arm without problems.  Still waoting on B-88 bearing.


----------



## Choiliefan

Tell him you'll split the difference and take 300...


----------



## LX Kid

Theathe cost me S1350 and he paid $175 shipping.  His net on the deal was $1275 and now, should I take the $200,  his net would be $1075.  The taper assenbly with compoud and QCGB were an added value to me over my 9C.  Those two items, if I upgraded my 9C, would have cost me around $700.


----------



## macardoso

If it means anything, you're doing a great job fixing it up!


----------



## LX Kid

macardoso said:


> If it means anything, you're doing a great job fixing it up!


Yes and just to thiink of all the fun I'm having gives me chills!  "Oh wait!"  That was a cold front that just moved in!  LoL


----------



## LX Kid

My QCTP arrived yesterday.  My plan, to make it fit the compond, is to use a flange nut.  I'll  use a 14mmx1.5 tap to make it fit the mounting bolt that came with it.  Otberwise I can mill one out or some 1/2" steel plate 
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
if nut is not stable enough.


----------



## DavidR8

If it were me I'd take the $200 and run.
There comes a time when the time and aggravation is no longer worth it to me.
I took an EBay seller to task over false advertisement on the mini lathe I bought and managed to get a $165 refund because I threatened to report him to EBay even though they do not care about false advertising as evidence by the fact that there is no way to report a misleading listing.


----------



## DavidR8

LX Kid said:


> My QCTP arrived yesterday.  My plan, to make it fit the compond, is to use a flange nut.  I'll  use a 14mmx1.5 tap to make it fit the mounting bolt that came with it.  Otberwise I can mill one out or some 1/2" steel plate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 310932
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if nut is not stable enough.


I would not use the flange nut. There will be too much point load where the flange contacts the casting and it may break the casting. Mill one out of steel plate or modify the plate that came with the toolpost.


----------



## MontanaLon

DavidR8 said:


> I would not use the flange nut. There will be too much point load where the flange contacts the casting and it may break the casting. Mill one out of steel plate or modify the plate that came with the toolpost.


This! If you have the tap already, just make it out of plate. The flange nut will concentrate forces at the points it makes contact with the compound where the plate will spread it around equally. Really good chance the flange nut will cause the lips to break under load.


----------



## LX Kid

Ok.  Found a chunk of steel and when I get a chance I'll make a mounting plate.  I have already ordered a 14mmx1.5 tap.  Just went out to the mail box and my new/used spindle came in.  It's a lot better than the one  that came with the lathe.  Probably start on the nasty, greasy mess of a cross-slide, compound and tapert attachment tomorrow.


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> My QCTP arrived yesterday.  My plan, to make it fit the compond, is to use a flange nut.  I'll  use a 14mmx1.5 tap to make it fit the mounting bolt that came with it.  Otberwise I can mill one out or some 1/2" steel plate if nut is not stable enough.



NO!! on the flange nut.  It appears that you have a mill, so mill a chunk of steel.


----------



## graham-xrf

LX Kid said:


> I'm probably making a mistake by not painting it with a gun and using some hardener in it but Rust-O-Lium rattle cans are soo easy to use.


Agreed on the rattle cans, but when you do choose to paint with a gun - what type of paint? What added "hardener"?
(Just trying to discover your favourite 2-pack).


----------



## LX Kid

graham-xrf said:


> Agreed on the rattle cans, but when you do choose to paint with a gun - what type of paint? What added "hardener"?
> (Just trying to discover your favourite 2-pack).


Best to go to a good paint store and ask for information.  Lot of variables, pressure, paint type and various hardeners.  It's a pain so I choose to use rattle cans and if it get's scratched up it's easy to fix.  And your surely not asking an expert when you ask me!!


----------



## DavidR8

Were it me, I’d be looking for a good enamel and brush it on. No fussing with masking or dealing with overspray. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## martik777

That's what I did, faster in the long run and better coverage in those rough castings


----------



## graham-xrf

LX Kid said:


> Best to go to a good paint store and ask for information.  Lot of variables, pressure, paint type and various hardeners.


I have already been some way down this road, getting to know the difference between 1X and 2X, and which Alkyd 1X will let brush marks "level", and how long which paint will allow runs to be taken up before hardening. How oil based enamels will eventually dry and go hard, but it might take days, or months, or not happen at all.

If you watch enough videos, you can get to know what suits.
No 2-packs for me yet. The end effect is hard and durable, but I don't like the toxic nature of the stuff.
Masking? I need to do that anyway, even with a brush.

The other kind of masking - always. I use the kind that when when combined with eyeglasses and ear defenders makes you look like a horror extra from the set of "The Fly". Basically, if I get a whiff of the solvents, my chest wheezes up. This has happened, even when I just took the lid off the can of 1K alkyd too close to my face.
The carbon granules really do work!

So I use a rattle can - but I do always use a primer stage, and I use a heat gun in a practiced way.

Not tried it out yet - but I do have one of these --> Electric Airless 550W

Old school air guns lay on about 35% and overspray almost the whole room.
HVLP spray guns have bigger holes blasting towards the paint exit to make a "fan" spray, and they get 60-65% down, so much less overspray. You need a big compressor to deliver the high volume. It sounds counter-intuitive, but the bigger holes mean lower pressure (at the holes).

The "airless" electric types seem to deliver very nearly all the paint where you point it.
The compressor" is apparently built-in. Why else would it need 550W? For the £22.90 price, compared to having a separate compressor, I can see why they might appeal.

These "airless" guns are cheap, and I don't yet know much about them. The not-so-good kind are maybe only good for spraying a garden fence, but now, the better ones give a good finish on small paint jobs, and are much used inside, painting walls, doors, furniture, etc. I came across one video of a guy showing how accurately he could paint a picture frame, apparently having no problems with over-spray.
(Have to look that one up again).

For stuff small enough to put in an oven (I know - I know - don't go there!), and an enormous amount of careful preparation, and a modicum of knowledge about high voltage current-limited DC, you can get into powder-coat finish. Like my car wheels repair - but that was done by a professional. You can even do it without the high voltage.

You can get a DIY powder coat kit from Harbor Freight.
Search "DIY powder coat" on our favourite video channel.
YT is surprising sometimes!


----------



## LX Kid

My counter-balance, spindle and QCTP all arrived yesterday.  They all look really good.  Being my spindle arrived I'll probably work on the headstock instead of working on the cross slide and taper assembly.  Gonna be a little cool to do painting though and don't want to paint inside my little shop as paint spray would be everywhere.


----------



## graham-xrf

LX Kid said:


> My counter-balance, spindle and QCTP all arrived yesterday.


So which QCTP di you go for? (Wedge?  Piston?)


----------



## LX Kid

graham-xrf said:


> So which QCTP di you go for? (Wedge?  Piston?)


Piston as it was a little cheaper and if will work just fine for my hobby piddly nonsense.  Worked all day long cleaning, priming and painting the cross slide, headstock and compound.  I've "never" seen such caked up crud on anything in my life.  I don't believe this lathe has ever been taken apart since mfg in 1944.  I was able to get them primered but ran out of paint.


----------



## LX Kid

Still have lot's of work cleaning on the tailstock, apron, taper assembly, headstock gear cover and a few bits and pieces.  Even the mess I made is a task in itself to clean up.


----------



## LX Kid

I have a Chinese 4-jaw independent chuck that I would like to use on my lathe.  Problem is it doesn't have mounting threads to go on spindle.  Does anyone know it they make an adapter for this????  It's a three hole mounting.


----------



## DavidR8

You’ll have to machine one from a threaded backplate. 
I bought a 1-1/2”x8 TPI casting from Shars for my 4-jaw. 
Haven’t tackled it yet as I was waiting for my QCTP to arrive. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LX Kid

Built my headstock this morning but will have to pull the back gear and reversing gear handle off and paint them.  Ran out of paint so gotta go to Home Depot and get some more.  I'm going to add some shim stock due to very little effort on the spindle bolts cause it to 
lock down.


----------



## martik777

deleted


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> I think you need to remove some of the shims not add them


Why?  With the slightest snugging of the allen head bolts it locks up the spindle.  Therefore the bolts will be loosening up from vibrations.

Update:  I also just ordered new cross-slide and compound screw nuts.


----------



## martik777

oops, deleted my reply, had a brain f--t   Headstock looks great!


----------



## DavidR8

A while back you asked about new gear chart plates. I ran across this company.





						Machinery Restoration | Von Industrial, LLC
					

Machinery restoration services specializing in reproduction etched nameplates and industrial design services.




					www.vonindustrial.com


----------



## LX Kid

DavidR8 said:


> A while back you asked about new gear chart plates. I ran across this company.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Machinery Restoration | Von Industrial, LLC
> 
> 
> Machinery restoration services specializing in reproduction etched nameplates and industrial design services.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vonindustrial.com


Thank you for your effort.  I send them an email and waiting for reply to see it they can help.  Appreciate it!!!  Glad your keeping an eye on my posting for this lathe.


----------



## finsruskw

I figured there would be some sources for that kind of stuff somewhere!
Wow, one of those new plates would sure set the Kids turner apart from the crowd, Huh!!


----------



## SLK001

Over on the PM site, user jkull makes and sells them.  Check with him.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> Over on the PM site, user jkull makes and sells them.  Check with him.


Thanks.  I did already find him and it cost $48 shipped.  I'm having him make me one.   I sold my SB 9C today so I have a few extra dollars to put into the 9A.  Looks like about a week and I should have it up and going.


----------



## LX Kid

LX Kid said:


> Thanks.  I did already find him and it cost $48 shipped.  I'm having him make me one.   I sold my SB 9C today so I have a few extra dollars to put into the 9A.  Looks like about a week and I should have it up and going.



I feel naked without having a running lathe at my disposal!   Weird!


----------



## graham-xrf

LX Kid said:


> I feel naked without having a running lathe at my disposal!   Weird!


My 9C has to remain an essential resource for fixing up the 9A.


----------



## LX Kid

My tumbler arm bearing showed up this afternoon so I guess I finish off the QCGBox tomorrow.  The headstock is finished save for the reverse gear handle painting as well as the back gear handle.  A cold front has moved in last night and will be cold next few days so I don't know how much I can do on the lathe.  The weather will probably slow me down 3 or 4 days until it warms up.  I don't like doing mineral spirit parts cleaning and painting inside my small shop so I'll have to wait.  Gonna go look at a Atlas 618 tomorrow for $150.


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> The weather will probably slow me down 3 or 4 days until it warms up.  I don't like doing mineral spirit parts cleaning and painting inside my small shop so I'll have to wait.  Gonna go look at a Atlas 618 tomorrow for $150.



Boy, I hear ya'.  It got down to 65º F today and made it too cold to do any work in the shop.  I spent the day shivering in the house!  Can't wait for the warm up to come on Thursday!


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> Boy, I hear ya'.  It got down to 65º F today and made it too cold to do any work in the shop.  I spent the day shivering in the house!  Can't wait for the warm up to come on Thursday!


Well this morning it's 36 degrees and with wind chill it's 28 degrees!!   Am I still in Florida???  Staying inside today drinking coffee and taking an occasional nap.  Retirement is good.


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> Well this morning it's 36 degrees and with wind chill it's 28 degrees!!   Am I still in Florida???  Staying inside today drinking coffee and taking an occasional nap.  Retirement is good.



At least these temps will kill a lot of the invasive pests, like iguanas and pythons that we have around here.  Last time it got this cold, the iguanas were dropping dead out of the trees!


----------



## LX Kid

If I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all.  I used my vice with an appropriate size socket to press in the new tumbler bearing.  Wouldn't you just know it,  The bearing is too tight on the pin and the pin turns in the tumbler casting.  Guess I'll order another bearing and give it another try in a few days when it arrives.   The sun came out and it's tolerable so maybe I'll get out there and start dismantling the apron and cleaning the parts.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> At least these temps will kill a lot of the invasive pests, like iguanas and pythons that we have around here.  Last time it got this cold, the iguanas were dropping dead out of the trees!


Well that sure makes it easier to pick them up, skin em, cook em and eat em!   Yuuuuumy!    
PETA-  "People Eating Tasty Animals!"

Update:  I disassembled the apron and incase people don't know this, there are a million parts in that sucker!


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> Update:  I disassembled the apron and incase people don't know this, there are a million parts in that sucker!



999,967 of those parts are swarf from the lathe's previous life.  Don't count those!


----------



## macardoso

Mine (Enco 12x36) had extra roll pins sitting in the bottom of the oil bath in the apron. Convenient to replace the 2 that I damaged disassembling the lathe


----------



## LX Kid

I guess all is not well on the site but those things happen.  Glad the site is back up and hope it does't have a repeat. 

I have finished the cross slide and compound rebuild  with new screw nuts in both.  Still waiting on another new bearing for my QCGB tumbler.   I ordered a new/used  clutch gear for the apron.  Built another plywood table base with new swarf pan.  Maybe tomorrow I'll start cleaning and painting the tailstock and taper assembly.  Starting to feel like I'm going into a burn out state as everyday for the last month I have been working on this lathe or another.


----------



## LX Kid

Painted the apron this morning.  Kinda cool this morning so not going to get much done today.  I had ordered a new clutch gear and the pic shows just how worn it is.  Re-assembled the cross-slide and compound yesterday.


----------



## LX Kid

Looks like my tumbler gear bearing problem is a little bit of a problem.  Someone on another forum had the same problem as me with the new B-88 bearing.  Seems what I needed is the B-88X which they don't make anymore.  The B-88X was slightly smaller OD and that is why when I pressed the B-88 in, which was tight fit, it would seize up on the pin.  Here's a quote from another site.
*
"The new B-88 roller bearing would not work in the original tumbler gear bore. It seems that the B-88X is an undersized bearing on the OD, and not available. I had to ream the bore of the gear out to 0.687" to make it fit properly."*

The OD of the B-88 is .6875 (11/16").   Looks like I'll have to do the same.  A little later today I'll Mic the ID of my gear and see what it is.


----------



## LX Kid

Reamed the gear out and pressed the ruined bearing back in and pressed in just fine.  The ruined bearing has fouled needles so I can't reuse it.  The new bearing was "supposed" to arrive yesterday but snail mail didn't deliver.  Not sure what a "good" gear looks like cause I don't have one to compare it to.


----------



## LX Kid

I'm cleaning and paint the tailstock today and notice there is only one long allen screw and the other is missing.  Is there anyone willing to measure their tailstock allen screw lengths for me?  I would really appreciate it!   Looks like someone has tried to do an upward lift alignment for tailstock base and Vee wear on the upper left corner by bronzing it.  I would think that without two adjusting screws that alignment would float around.


----------



## LX Kid

I just can't seem to get ahead on this darn lathe.  Now I find that the tailstock base plate "V" is larger than the lathe bed "V."  The base plate rocks on the bed "V" and is probably why someone had bronzed the corner of the base plate trying make it work.  The casting part number on the tailstock is 10D-5.  Can someone verify that it is the correct tailstock by matching their 9A tailstock number?


----------



## mattthemuppet2

glue in a thin strip of plastic or brass to bring it back into alignment


----------



## LX Kid

mattthemuppet2 said:


> glue in a thin strip of plastic or brass to bring it back into alignment


The base plate V is larger than the bed V.    Actually I don't think the tailstock is even for a 9" SB.  That's why I'm asking for a casting part number from someone's 9".  The pic second pic is what a 9" tailstock looks like and it looks different from mine.


----------



## mattthemuppet2

so the female V in the bottom of the base plate is larger than the male bed V? Stick a piece of plastic/ brass to one side of the female V in the bottom of the base plate to take up the slack.


----------



## LX Kid

I just broke out another $105 for a complete tailstock assembly.  I don't believe the tailstock that I have is even a South Bend.


----------



## LX Kid

mattthemuppet2 said:


> so the female V in the bottom of the base plate is larger than the male bed V? Stick a piece of plastic/ brass to one side of the female V in the bottom of the base plate to take up the slack.


No I just want to make it right with the correct tailstock.  I'll see if I can find out what lathe my tailstock fits and try to sell it.

*Update:
I just did a web search for the different vintage tailstocks and found out mine is for an Atlas/Craftsman 54 series, 10" lathe.*


----------



## LX Kid

I sure hope this lathe works out for me as I now have $1975 invested.  Not to mention probably around 100 labor hours.  I still am in the dark as to weather the lathe bed is going to have any accuracy.


----------



## DavidR8

I'm going to bet that it's for a Heavy 10. 
Edit; or an Atlas


----------



## ericc

You can sell this extra tailstock.  Atlas Craftsman tailstocks bring good money on Ebay.  Someone foisted a huge box of junk lathe parts on me.  I tried to refuse it, but he said I could sell it on Ebay.  I was able to use a grand total of 2 parts from the entire box, but the rest sold pretty quickly.  I was shocked.


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> I just broke out another $105 for a complete tailstock assembly.  I don't believe the tailstock that I have is even a South Bend.



Well, you didn't have any other use for that money, did you?

You are correct that the TS isn't a SB.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> Well, you didn't have any other use for that money, did you?
> You are correct that the TS isn't a SB.



Well it looks good sitting there doing nothing!


----------



## LX Kid

Yea!  My parts arrived today!  I finished off the apron, cross slide and compound assemblies.  I did find out once installed on the lathe bed that the horizontal traverse wouldn't work.  Looked at the mateing of the gear and bed teeth and found the gear was worn just enough to not mesh together.   So I put washers under the five bed teeth screws and now it works just fine.  (Don't you just love it when I talk technical parts description?)  Tomorrow I'll finish off the QCGB with the new tumbler bearing and put it on the lathe bed.  I'll also start looking at how I'll install the counter shaft and motor.


----------



## SLK001

The "bed teeth" is called a "rack".

Are you sure that the gear is that worn?  If things don't properly line up, you'll never get the lead screw in place.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> The "bed teeth" is called a "rack".
> 
> Are you sure that the gear is that worn?  If things don't properly line up, you'll never get the lead screw in place.



Yup!  Plus a little shaft or apron casting wear.

*UPDATE 1/30/20:  Going to wrap the shaft, where it goes thru casting, with shim stock to take a little of the play.  Could buy new gear with shaft for $39 but I see how this works out.*


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> Yup!  Plus a little shaft or apron casting wear.



Yes, the gear is worn, but it should still mesh just fine.  The combined wear on the shaft and apron would have to be close to 0.150".


----------



## martik777

It could also be the total wear of the bed and bottom of the saddle resulting in the gear being too low to engage.


----------



## LX Kid

This is what a good one looks like.


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> It could also be the total wear of the bed and bottom of the saddle resulting in the gear being too low to engage.


Oh Noooooo!   We don't even want to think about something like that going on.  If I just ignore it maybe it will just fix itself.   Although the further away from the headstock the more it catches the rack.


----------



## Chuck K

Now that's some serious wear.  I love playing around with old "used up" machines, but I like to make some chips with them before I invest too much time and money. I hope it works out for you.


----------



## LX Kid

Chuck K said:


> Now that's some serious wear.  I love playing around with old "used up" machines, but I like to make some chips with them before I invest too much time and money. I hope it works out for you.


Oh it will make some good chips no matter what it cost me.  I'm in too deep not to get it working properly.  I won't buy pricey vintage equipment off ebay anymore.  It was just a dumb move on my part and now I'm paying the price.  In 100 years what's it gonna matter?


----------



## martik777

Did you ever check the wear on the v-ways of your saddle? They usually wear 3x as much as the bed. In one extreme case the top of the bed V ways were wearing into the casting of my saddle. Only fix is a "new" saddle or a shim up the old one with brass, rulon etc


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> Did you ever check the wear on the v-ways of your saddle? They usually wear 3x as much as the bed. In one extreme case the top of the bed V ways were wearing into the casting of my saddle. Only fix is a "new" saddle or a shim up the old one with brass, rulon etc



Not exactly sure how to do that.  I will make it cut some chips first and adres bed wear issues after that should there be any.  I'll check out YouBoob to see how to check bed/saddle wear on a South Bend.


----------



## martik777

See around page 159 of this PDF: https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...4-south-bend-13-lathe-by-ryan-battelle.41469/

Also here:


----------



## LX Kid

How does the QCGB work?  Knowing nothing about how to use it I have a question.  With the two tumbler arms resting all the way down and input shaft is turned, by hand, the lead screw does not turn.  Is this normal?  Do the tumblers have to be engaged for any movement of the lead screw??  Does the right side tumbler have to be put into one of the holes in order to get a lead screw movement??


----------



## Chuck K

LX Kid said:


> How does the QCGB work?  Knowing nothing about how to use it I have a question.  With the two tumbler arms resting all the way down and input shaft is turned, by hand, the lead screw does not turn.  Is this normal?  Do the tumblers have to be engaged for any movement of the lead screw??  Does the right side tumbler have to be put into one of the holes in order to get a lead screw movement??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 312211


Yes and yes


----------



## Chuck K

Chuck K said:


> Yes and yes


And yes


----------



## LX Kid

Chuck K said:


> And yes



Ok I just came back in from my shop and have it figured out.  Both have to be selected for lead screw movement.  "Now" another question about the cross slide movement.  The cross slide will only move outward and does not move inward.  What is the mechanical fault that would cause this situation?  Do I have another apron part that is worn excessively?


----------



## DavidR8

LX Kid said:


> Ok I just came back in from my shop and have it figured out.  Both have to be selected for lead screw movement.  "Now" another question about the cross slide movement.  The cross slide will only move outward and does not move inward.  What is the mechanical fault that would cause this situation?  Do I have another apron part that is worn excessively?


To move the opposite direction you have to reverse the lead screw by using the reversing lever WHILE THE LATHE IS NOT RUNNING...


----------



## LX Kid

DavidR8 said:


> To move the opposite direction you have to reverse the lead screw by using the reversing lever WHILE THE LATHE IS NOT RUNNING...



Oh dang!  That really makes sense!!!  Glad you been watching over me all this time.  Now I have one less worry about some more money to be spent on worn out parts.  Thanks


I'm quite aways from getting the counter shaft-assembly and motor installed.  Once installed I'm have to get a flat belt measurement and order it.  Still have to strip, clean and paint the various parts.  I also wrapped the horizontal traverse gear shaft with shim stock and tightened it up quite a bit.


----------



## SLK001

Yeah, just throw her in reverse!


----------



## Chuck K

I also wrapped the horizontal traverse gear shaft with shim stock and tightened it up quite a bit. 

If you have a mill, you could bore out the case and install a bushing to take the wobble out of the shaft.


----------



## ACHiPo

SLK001 said:


> Yeah, just throw her in reverse!


Or "R" for Race!


----------



## LX Kid

Yea!  My new/old tailstock and QCGB data plate came in today.  I also checked my ways with a dial indicator and from headstock to about 2/3 away I get a reading of 0.000 -.001 and the goes on up to about .018 towards the end.


----------



## martik777

How did u measure this?  From the cross slide is meaningless as it just follows the wear off the ways. Measure from the tailstock to the side of the v way will be better as the ways under the tail stock  are usually less worn


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> How did u measure this?  From the cross slide is meaningless as it just follows the wear off the ways. Measure from the tailstock to the side of the v way will be better as the ways under the tail stock  are usually less worn


I'll give that a try tomorrow.  Thanks


----------



## martik777

For the flat belt I use a 445K6 serpentine automotive belt works great!  <$7 on ebay

445= 44.5"  and K6 = 6 ribs approx 7/8" wide


----------



## SLK001

The mounting plate for the tail stock isn't original (if you didn't already know).


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> The mounting plate for the tail stock isn't original (if you didn't already know).


 Yes I know the Atlas 10" isn't.  The new/old SB looks to be original.


----------



## Choiliefan

How's the fit of your new tailstock to the bed ways?


----------



## BGHansen

LX Kid said:


> Oh dang!  That really makes sense!!!  Glad you been watching over me all this time.  Now I have one less worry about some more money to be spent on worn out parts.  Thanks
> 
> 
> I'm quite aways from getting the counter shaft-assembly and motor installed.  Once installed I'm have to get a flat belt measurement and order it.  Still have to strip, clean and paint the various parts.  I also wrapped the horizontal traverse gear shaft with shim stock and tightened it up quite a bit.


Here's what I did on my Clausing so I don't forget.  Originally wrote on the lathe with a Sharpie then printed labels with a Brother label maker.  Smarter person would have cleaned the Sharpie off first . . . 

Bruce


Stuck labels on my head stock for feed direction.  Naturally, the opposite is implied when the feed reverse lever is thrown in the opposite position (Cross:  In -> Out in the lower position, Long. Head -> Tail in the upper position).



Also labeled the apron feed lever.  You can still see the original Sharpie "L" and "C" under the labels.  Should have cleaned those off first.


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> Yes I know the Atlas 10" isn't.  The new/old SB looks to be original.



The SB tailstock base has the part number PT51K3 and is made out of cast iron.  The part number will be cast into the part.  The design of the TS base doesn't appear to have change from the start of production to when they stopped making 9" lathes in the mid to late 1960's.  Your tailstock base looks to be made from a piece of mild steel.

Here's a pic of a 1947 9A tailstock to compare with yours (its from member Paula over at the PM forum):




However, if the centerline of the tailstock lines up with the centerline of the headstock, then I wouldn't worry about it.  You'll do a test cut to verify alignment when everything is together.


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> For the flat belt I use a 445K6 serpentine automotive belt works great!  <$7 on ebay
> 
> 445= 44.5"  and K6 = 6 ribs approx 7/8" wide


What I like about the flat belts is that I can pull the joining pin out instead of removing the counter-balance shaft to install/remove the belt.


Choiliefan said:


> How's the fit of your new tailstock to the bed ways?



It fits "Purrrrrrrfect!"    I've got all the gear train back on the headstock and adjusted.  I used a piece of a paper bag between the gear mesh for adjustment.  Had a busy day trying to get all the parts back on the bed and bolted the lathe bed to the table stand.  I decided that I would finish the painting another day when it's warmer.  I still need to clean paint off tailstock, prime and paint as well as the headstock gear cover.  My fingertips are just plain in pain from all the cleaning.  I want to make this puppy run "tomorrow!"


----------



## LX Kid

I've been kinda keeping track of the hours I've been working on this lathe.   Glad I'm retired and is a labor of love cause I've got about 130 hours into this _catastrophe!   I'll bet this lathe was used in a high school training class.  Just too much abuse/  Here's a before picture.


_


----------



## martik777

BGHansen said:


> Here's what I did on my Clausing so I don't forget.  Originally wrote on the lathe with a Sharpie then printed labels with a Brother label maker.  Smarter person would have cleaned the Sharpie off first . . .



Love those Brother label machines. Get your tape refills from ebay/aliexpress  1/10 the price!


----------



## martik777

Telltale signs of a lathe being used in a school is when the back of the compound is damaged from running into the chuck. The rest of the lathe sees very little use. Given the amount of wear, yours was likely used in a production environment


----------



## LX Kid

Today I installed the counter-shaft assembly and motor.  Already had a 50" flat belt and had to buy a 42" V-belt.  To check the running I just put a plug on the end of the motor's cord.  Found a lot of gear noise.  I isolated the gear train noise from the spindle by pulling the plug on the bull gear and everything was quite so the problem mostly is the forward/reverse gears.  Gonna have to look for a deal on those gears.  Did a test cut and seemed to work fine except for slop in the cross slide and compound even though I put new nuts in both.  Tonight or maybe tomorrow I'll wire up the switch after cleaning and painting the gear guard/switch assembly.  I hope things will get better for all my work and investment.


----------



## Chuck K

Put some open gear grease on those gears and they will run silent.


----------



## SLK001

Chuck K said:


> Put some open gear grease on those gears and they will run silent.



Bad idea.  Only use the recommended oil on the gears.  REASON:  Grease will grab and HOLD any swarf that gets back there and possibly jam the teeth.  Oil will RELEASE the swarf that gets on it and it will be thrown off.  As you have found out while cleaning everything, swarf gets EVERYWHERE!


----------



## LX Kid

Ordered forward/reverse gear assembly.  Here's couple pics.  Last pic is what I just ordered and the gears look pretty good.


----------



## Chuck K

SLK001 said:


> Bad idea.  Only use the recommended oil on the gears.  REASON:  Grease will grab and HOLD any swarf that gets back there and possibly jam the teeth.  Oil will RELEASE the swarf that gets on it and it will be thrown off.  As you have found out while cleaning everything, swarf gets EVERYWHERE!


I would normally agree with that. I like to keep chips and grease segregated. I've been using it on the back end of lathes for a few years now.  Haven't experienced any chips stuck in the grease.   I do keep the covers closed when I'm running the machines. If it's a concern, you could just put a drip pan under the gears and keep them well oiled.


----------



## LX Kid

Chuck K said:


> I would normally agree with that. I like to keep chips and grease segregated. I've been using it on the back end of lathes for a few years now.  Haven't experienced any chips stuck in the grease.   I do keep the covers closed when I'm running the machines. If it's a concern, you could just put a drip pan under the gears and keep them well oiled.


Nope.  the gears are worn out and I'm replacing them.


----------



## LX Kid

Today I wired up the power switch and put a new power cord on same.  Took the 3-jaw apart and cleaned and lubed everything.  I still have to clean, paint and install the taper assembly.  Until I get the new for/rev assembly not much more to do.  Does anyone know if there is a mod for the for/rev assembly where a person doesn't have to loosen up the retaining bolt to reverse the spindle direction?


----------



## martik777

I tapped a hole in the bolt and added a lever to enable toolless changing of the reversing gears. Did the same thing below to release and tighten the banjo. If you move the compound frequently, you can add a similar lever for that too.


----------



## martik777

LX Kid said:


> Nope.  the gears are worn out and I'm replacing them.



You may also have to replace the other 3 gears to eliminate noise, the 20, 80 and 56 tooth ones may be worn as well. On one of my 9A's I set the fwd/rev assembly to neutral and run it off the tail end of the leadscrew which has a pulley attached to a variable speed dc motor. Fwd/Rev and infinite speed control at the flip of a switch.


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> View attachment 312662
> 
> 
> I tapped a hole in the bolt and added a lever to enable toolless changing of the reversing gears. Did the same thing below to release and tighten the banjo. If you move the compound frequently, you can add a similar lever for that too.


I'll probably never even need to put it in reverse but be a nice addition just the same.


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> I'll probably never even need to put it in reverse but be a nice addition just the same.


Never say never!


----------



## lordbeezer

Forward/reverse assy off a light 10. Plus couple holes for plunger


----------



## DavidR8

lordbeezer said:


> Forward/reverse assy off a light 10. Plus couple holes for plunger


I can shoot some pics of this as I have a 10K (light 10)


----------



## martik777

That's a lot of work and expense for something seldom used, The lever mod I posted takes only a couple secs to change direction with one hand.


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> View attachment 312662
> 
> 
> I tapped a hole in the bolt and added a lever to enable toolless changing of the reversing gears. Did the same thing below to release and tighten the banjo. If you move the compound frequently, you can add a similar lever for that too.


Yes I like your mod and will do that when I get a chance.  Thanks for the idea.  I'm pushing back away from the lathe a couple days to take a break.  Reached a burn out and have sore fingers amd hands.


----------



## LX Kid

Well I just couldn"t sit still so I continued on with the cleaning and painting.   Cleaned and painted the tailstock, gear guard next to the QCGB and all the parts of the taper assembly.   *Pics show all the parts that I had to replace so far.  The rusty hunk of metal is a homemade motor mount, that came with it, for use with the pulley drive system.*


----------



## martik777

LX Kid said:


> Yes I like your mod and will do that when I get a chance.  Thanks for the idea.  I'm pushing back away from the lathe a couple days to take a break.  Reached a burn out and have sore fingers amd hands.



You probably already know that you will have to machine the thickness of the washer to get the right angle for tightening.


----------



## SLK001

martik777 said:


> You probably already know that you will have to machine the thickness of the washer to get the right angle for tightening.



Machining the thickness of a washer is no trivial task.  You will probably be better off creating your own out of bar stock and parting it to the desired width.


----------



## LX Kid

Finished everything up today save for waiting for for/rev gears to come.  If there is anymore gear noise it will be the 80 tooth gear.  It looks ok but won't know for sure until my parts come and I can test it.


----------



## LX Kid

*I just discovered when I put my taper attachment on that I believe it's missing parts.  What do you think????  No screw or nut!  I don't know anything about taper attachments and would like to know what parts I'm missing?  I searched the web and can't find a good diagram of the taper attachment. *


----------



## martik777

It's easy to machine a washer with a spider, you can make them out of wood in a pinch





__





						Easy build spider for small lathe
					

This is how to build a lathe chuck spider for the beginner with a small import lathe. A spider is used to position thin work out near the end of the jaws so you can face it.  I used my Harbor Freight 7x10 to show how. First to give credit. I saw something like this on a post by Mklotz elsewhere...




					www.homemodelenginemachinist.com


----------



## Chuck K

SLK001 said:


> Machining the thickness of a washer is no trivial task.  You will probably be better off creating your own out of bar stock and parting it to the desired width.


Damn good reason to buy a surface grinder...or a pack of shims


----------



## LX Kid

My for/rev gear assembly arrived today and it "really" quietened the noise down to an acceptable level.  I've made a bid for an 80 tooth gear and that will help as well.  Also ordered a traverse rack gear as mine is slap wore out and will remove the washers I had put in between the rack and the lathe bed.  AND to find out that the taper cross-slide doesn't have the taper assembly screw, which makes the taper assembly useless, puts more salt in my wallet wound!  Average cost of a cross-slide screw, for taper attachment, is around $250 and I don't think I'm going there.  This has become the million dollar lathe that's only worth around $1800 on a good day.  "BUT IT'S ALL MINE!"  LoL  (Investment $2200 and still counting!)


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> Average cost of a cross-slide screw, for taper attachment, is around $250 and I don't think I'm going there.  This has become the million dollar lathe that's only worth around $1800 on a good day.  "BUT IT'S ALL MINE!"  LoL  (Investment $2200 and still counting!)



I got a new cross slide screw (telescoping type) from ebay for ~$70.  There are some over on PM that make them.


----------



## martik777

It's not that difficult to single point your own LH 7/16-10 acme screw and attach it to an existing gear and shaft.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> I got a new cross slide screw (telescoping type) from ebay for ~$70.  There are some over on PM that make them.


I think at this time I don't really need the use of the taper assembly.  It would be nice to have it working but I can put it off for another day.  I aligned the tailstock to the headstock and had to add about .005" shim between tailstock base and upper.


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> It's not that difficult to single point your own LH 7/16-10 acme screw and attach it to an existing gear and shaft.


Maybe for an experienced machinist but not so much for me.


----------



## LX Kid

As a test I put some 40w oil on the gears and it really made it much quieter.  Been looking for a 20T gear for the stud gear on the for/rev tumbler and can't find one.  My go to source, eBad, doesn't list any.   Still waiting for my offer reply from the seller on a 80T gear.

*Update:   8pm    Bought an 80T idler gear and be here in a couple of days.   Did a couple of test cuts and performed well.  Haven't used a mic on the cuts yet to check out consistane on one end vs. other end.*


----------



## LX Kid

My tiny 10' x15' shop is a total disaster from doing the restoration of my lathe.  Tomorrow is going to be clean up and get organized day!  I'll have to make some sort of raised shelf, at the back of the lathe, in order to set down tools, mic's and various tooling items.   I found it necessary to install the lathe on the forward edge of my table in order to save floor space so table could be closer to the wall.  As you can see in the first pic my counter-shaft is only a couple inches from wall.  Being that my taper attachment is non-functional I guess I'll remove it to give me more room at the back of the lathe for tooling.


----------



## Chuck K

LX Kid said:


> My tiny 10' x15' shop is a total disaster from doing the restoration of my lathe.  Tomorrow is going to be clean up and get organized day!  I'll have to make some sort of raised shelf, at the back of the lathe, in order to set down tools, mic's and various tooling items.   I found it necessary to install the lathe on the forward edge of my table in order to save floor space so table could be closer to the wall.  As you can see in the first pic my counter-shaft is only a couple inches from wall.  Being that my taper attachment is non-functional I guess I'll remove it to give me more room at the back of the lathe for tooling.


That's a fine looking lathe right there. If it works half as good as it looks, the effort will be worth it!


----------



## martik777

Have you done a test cut to see how straight it cuts?


----------



## Choiliefan

Re cutting a taper, can't one detach the crossfeed nut at the slotted screw, lock the cross-slide to the taper attachment slide and start cutting?
Seems I once operated a lathe without telescoping crossfeed screw and this was how it was done...?


----------



## LX Kid

Choiliefan said:


> Re cutting a taper, can't one detach the crossfeed nut at the slotted screw, lock the cross-slide to the taper attachment slide and start cutting?
> Seems I once operated a lathe without telescoping crossfeed screw and this was how it was done...?


Well the problem is that there is no "Taper Assy" cross-feed screw in my saddle so it can do nothing.   Just to get the taper assembly out of the way I'll just remove it until a time when I think that I need to buy the longer cross-feed screw.  But no knowing anything about how to cut a taper you may be correct about what you described.   Not getting much suggestions, other than you, on how this thing works or even that  I may have all the parts I need and don't even know it.   Maybe I just don't get it on how it works!


----------



## LX Kid

I really like showing the before and after pics.  I guess it makes me feel good to see the difference.  "No matter that I had to give a gallons of blood and sold my glass eye!"  LoL   I'm sure everyone knows Mr. Pete Tublacane from youtube and he used 85-90w gear oil on his gears.  I tried it this morning and how sweet it is for running quiet!  It would be nice if I could put the tumbler gears in neutral when cutting but then the lead screw won't turn.


----------



## DavidR8

Looks really good! 
Let the chip making commence!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Choiliefan

You don't need that special crossfeed screw to use your taper attachment.
Detach your crossfeed nut by unscrewing the slotted screw adjacent to your compound.
Set an angle on your taper attachment and lock it to the cross-slide with that shiny nut you've got there.
Your cross-slide is now firmly attached to the taper attachment and as you move the carriage, the cross-slide will move in or out and the now disconnected acme nut stays in place.  Try it out.


----------



## SLK001

When you turn a taper, the cross feed screw is locked (RE: isn't used).  All in-out movement is done by the compound.  I'm not sure your taper attachment is missing anything.  You set the taper, lock the Tie Rod Screw to the ways, lock the cross-slide to the taper attachment and remove the cross-slide nut holding screw.

I believe that operating the taper is described in HTRAL.  I might have missed a step for the 9", because the H10 has a different setup, thus setup proceedure (and I have an H10).


----------



## SLK001

Here is the proceedure in a picture:




When you set your taper, be sure that the range of the taper slide is greater than the taper you want to produce.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> Here is the proceedure in a picture:
> 
> View attachment 313027
> 
> 
> When you set your taper, be sure that the range of the taper slide is greater than the taper you want to produce.



Many thanks to you and *Choiliefan.  My next step is to find out if my chuck is  running true.  The spindle bearing tightening will also change trueness of the chuck.  Still have to figure out about shimming the headstock so I can tighten the two allen heads down without seizing up the spindle.  Basically the bolts are just laying in the threads and not tightened.  If I lightly snug the bolts the spindle stops turning and belts slip.  Remember I had to replace the spindle.*

Do they make SB headstock shim kits?  I've never noticed anything like that on eBad.  I do have a lot of shim stock in two different thicknesses and could cut my own I guess.


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> *Still have to figure out about shimming the headstock so I can tighten the two allen heads down without seizing up the spindle.  Basically the bolts are just laying in the threads and not tightened.  If I lightly snug the bolts the spindle stops turning and belts slip.  Remember I had to replace the spindle.*
> 
> Do they make SB headstock shim kits?  I've never noticed anything like that on eBad.  I do have a lot of shim stock in two different thicknesses and could cut my own I guess.



I don't know if anyone make shim kits, but there are supposed to be shims in the slots in the headstock.  Weren't there shims in there when you tore it apart?


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> I don't know if anyone make shim kits, but there are supposed to be shims in the slots in the headstock.  Weren't there shims in there when you tore it apart?


Yes and they are still there but were for the "old" spindle not the new/old one that's in there now.  Need more shims so I can tighten the bolts without freezing up the spindle.


----------



## LX Kid

Here's how I took up the shaft slop of the traverse shaft.  Used ship stock and left about 1/8" gap so oil can get into the shaft area.  Will there "EVER" be an end to all the problems with my lathe and the glut of money being spent?????  A re-ajustment of gears and the addition of 80w-90 gear lube shure has made a big difference in the quiet running of the lathe.  When my 80T idler gear arrives I'm sure I'll be happy with my ex thrashing machine!  LoL


----------



## martik777

If you want a dead quiet lathe you can add a handwheel to the leadscrew (tailstock end) and disconnect the reversing gears. You will probably need to machine a bit off the leadscrew holder. As I said b4 you could also add a variable speed reversible dc motor to the leadscrew.


----------



## wm460

Very impressive restoration LX Kid well done, I will be rereading your posts as I get stuck into restoring mt Hercus ARL.


----------



## LX Kid

There just seems to be a vendetta against me by the "Lathe God!"  I checked the runout this morning and I have a .013 deflection at the chuck.  I snuged the headstock bolts and it's the same reading so I'm guessing the chuck jaws are going to have to be trued.  That is going to be another learning curve for me and a tuff one at that!


----------



## SLK001

What does "a .013 deflection" mean?  What is the runout at the shoulder of the spindle?  What is the runout at the back of the chuck plate?  What is the runout on the body of the chuck?


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> What does "a .013 deflection" mean?  What is the runout at the shoulder of the spindle?  What is the runout at the back of the chuck plate?  What is the runout on the body of the chuck?



At the moment it means it's not going to cut accurate with any kind of accuracy at all.   It just a pretty chip maker at this point!  Be nice if I had another chuck to stick on the spindle to get a comparison.  I'll do more testing in just a little bit.


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> I snuged the headstock bolts and it's the same reading so I'm guessing the chuck jaws are going to have to be trued.  That is going to be another learning curve for me and a tuff one at that!



You're jumping the gun.  Get your spindle properly installed/shimmed BEFORE you do any other measurements like this.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> You're jumping the gun.  Get your spindle properly installed/shimmed BEFORE you do any other measurements like this.


For Gins Then:
OD CHUCK MOUNT PLATE .003"
BACK CHUCK PLATE .0015"
SPINDLE NOSE .0015"


----------



## woodtickgreg

I haven't read this thread in awhile, you've come a long way. I restored a heavy 10 that wasn't quite as bad as yours but still had its surprises. Like you I also learned about it as I went along with the rebuild. One thing for sure is you will understand this machine and its operation like no other. My heavy 10 has become my favorite machine of all my machines. The only way I would ever sell it is if I where to purchase a 13. You have definitely made lemonade from lemons and you should be proud of that. You'll enjoy using it even more once you have made everything right and restored this machine.


----------



## Chuck K

SLK001 said:


> You're jumping the gun.  Get your spindle properly installed/shimmed BEFORE you do any other measurements like this.


Yep...what he said. Take the chuck off and measure at the spindle.


----------



## LX Kid

Made a couple of headstock shims out of an old swarf pan and I can now tighten headstock bolts.  Removed thinner extra shim and used new .017" shim along with original thicker shims on each end.


----------



## DavidR8

Have you tested the spindle play by inserting a rod in the spindle and pulling up and down and checking the play?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LX Kid

DavidR8 said:


> Have you tested the spindle play by inserting a rod in the spindle and pulling up and down and checking the play?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not yet.  I just today got the headstock tightened down and will do some dial indicator testing tomorrow.  "If" after doing a thorough testing of the chuck, and found not true, I may buy an import chuck and back plate.  The one I have now was made in India.  That would be less aggravating than trying to grind the chuck jaws.  Anyway I don't have a tool post grinder to do that task.  As my best guess right now the chuck is going to need replacing.  "MORE MONEY" and the Lathe God's are mad at me!  LoL


----------



## DavidR8

Don’t worry about chuck runout until you’ve verified that the spindle is within spec. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LX Kid

DavidR8 said:


> Don’t worry about chuck runout until you’ve verified that the spindle is within spec.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



As long as I can make it cut concentric I'll be happy for my ocasional playing around with it!  I really don't have a real need for a lathe.  I just like taking non-working equipment and make it purdy and work properly.  This is my fifth or sixth lathe and I have another Atlas/Craftsman 618 waiting to be restored.  This 9A will be my keeper and the 618 I'll sell to help pay for my SB thrasher!  LoL


----------



## LX Kid

Used pipe chucked up and got .005" on the back plate.  Runout on back plate .003" and runout on jaws .008 - .010"


----------



## Chuck K

Why don't you take the chuck off and stick a wooden handle of some sort in the end of your spindle lift it while indicating it to see if your bearings are adjusted properly. If they're loose you're going to see it as run out in your chuck also.  Start at the beginning.


----------



## martik777

You can only "true" the jaws for  one diameter. all other will still be off by a diff amount. Chuck runout does not affect "cutting accuracy", it only means you cannot re-chuck the work with near zero runout.  The spindle runout and bearing clearance will determine final runout of the work.  

Check and adjust here:


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> You can only "true" the jaws for  one diameter. all other will still be off by a diff amount. Chuck runout does not affect "cutting accuracy", it only means you cannot re-chuck the work with near zero runout.  The spindle runout and bearing clearance will determine final runout of the work.
> 
> Check and adjust here:



That is a very good video!  Thank you so much for sharing that with me.  "Looks like I have to to start all over again."  I was wondering why I was leaking oil from the both bearings before I put in an additional shims.  No I know and I was using a 4' long pipe to do the lifting of the spindle and I guess that was a little excessive.  "LEARNING SOMETHING NEW EVERYDAY!"  (No matter how much pain and agony or money it might cost me!)  LoL


----------



## Choiliefan

My brother used to describe his foibles as "Gullible's Travels".  
Where to draw the line on the price on an education?


----------



## LX Kid

Choiliefan said:


> My brother used to describe his foibles as "Gullible's Travels".
> Where to draw the line on the price on an education?



Yes your correct but I feel I'm sooooo close to having a good machine for my little "do nothing" hobby needs and I'm way over the line on the investment end of it.  I couldn't bring myself to try and dump it on someone like it was dumped on me.  I'll just keep plugging away at it until I find it to be a good restored machine.   I had a Grizzly 3-In-one 31" machine that was way too large for my shop and wanted something that didn't need change gears.  The upper mill/drill portion took up way too much room and I never used used it because I have a 1hp Grizzly mill.   The SB 9A is the perfect size, has no change gears necessary and have a nice taper assembly.  So even though I've good too much money in it I think it will be a nice upgrade for me.  Here's a pic of the Grizzly and you can see how much room it required.  I sold it about the same time that I bought the SB 9A.


----------



## LX Kid

Ok.  I rechecked, after removing chuck, put in neutral and relieved belt tension, and reads .0025" on nose and .002" at rear of spindle.  Is that acceptable?

I also noticed I'm not leaking oil past the bearings, which was noticed earlier,  as far as I can tell at this time.


----------



## DavidR8

These are from Steve Wells guide to rebuilding a 9A












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SLK001

Yeah, I would try to hit 0.001" to 0.0015" on both ends.  Too much more and the oil film that the spindle rides on can't properly form.  All you need to do is remove some of the shims.


----------



## SLK001

If you don't have the shims to remove, let me spend some more of your money and send you here to get the proper laminated shims.  Or, you could just buy some brass shim stock and cut your own.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> Yeah, I would try to hit 0.001" to 0.0015" on both ends.  Too much more and the oil film that the spindle rides on can't properly form.  All you need to do is remove some of the shims.



Even though I'm going to call this good enough for my lathe.  There are only two shims in each end.  One being the original, which might be a peelable type, and the other I cut out is .017".  If I take out the .017" I don't have any shim stock close to .016" thickness.   I had to pry open the headstock in order to remove and insert the shims back in.   Wasn't an easy task at all.  Maybe I can say it's "Just the newness wearing off."  I'm more concerned with the chuck and it's concentricity at this time.  I'm thinking maybe a new chuck would be in order.   Import with back plate is around $100.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> If you don't have the shims to remove, let me spend some more of your money and send you here to get the proper laminated shims.  Or, you could just buy some brass shim stock and cut your own.


Where do you buy those laminated shims at??


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> Where do you buy those laminated shims at??



McMaster-Carr sells the laminated stock here.


----------



## Glenn Brooks

Last year I bought a package of various thickness brass shim stock on line for like $25 bucks.  8 or 10 sheets, each 3”x6” long, from .020” down to .001” thickness.  Ridiculously inexpensive.  And more than you ever use.


----------



## LX Kid

Glenn Brooks said:


> Last year I bought a package of various thickness brass shim stock on line for like $25 bucks.  8 or 10 sheets, each 3”x6” long, from .020” down to .001” thickness.  Ridiculously inexpensive.  And more than you ever use.


I have lots of shim stock.  2 rolls, two sizes.  I don't have ball mic but think they are .002 and .004"

Are there any votes for thinking I need new chuck?  I would guess that .0025 at spindle nose will be notices also in the chuck so I guess I'll have to do the spindle bearing shims a little closer.   "Dannnnnnng!"


----------



## martik777

I would get the spindle bearing clearance and deflection in spec before considering a new chuck. Then test the chuck's runout at various diameters. As I said b4 the runout is not an issue unless you need to 'RE-CHUCK' the work. I find 90%+ of the time I can make the part in a single chucking. You can always use a 4-jaw to dial it in perfectly, plus the 4-jaw has many other uses.  I would buy a 4-jaw b4 replacing your chuck.


----------



## DavidR8

I agree with @martik777. Hold off on the chuck till you get the spindle dialled in.
Then chuck a piece of drill rod and check runout. 
If it was me and the chuck is way out then I’d make an alignment mark on the chuck and backplate, unbolt and rotate the back plate 90 degrees, bolt it up again and check runout.
If you get within.003 -.005 you’re done.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LX Kid

Is there any Jsw a
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
djustment in this type of Chuck?


----------



## DavidR8

Not to my knowledge. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LX Kid

Cut more shims, installed and is now .0015" but the spindle is now seized.  (???)  I can no longer turn it by hand.  Before I had .053" in shims and now I have .051" in shims.


----------



## LX Kid

I just put the old shims back in and .0025" is best I can do.


----------



## martik777

LX Kid said:


> Is there any Jsw a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 313390
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> djustment in this type of Chuck?



1. You can replace the jaws with soft jaws (Aluminum) and machine for a specific diameter

2. You can enlarge the backplate a few thou to allow adjustment of the chuck like a set-tru chuck


----------



## martik777

Why are you so concerned about the runout of this chuck?  Even a new one, the best will be ~ .003 which isn't good enough to re-chuck work.

If you need the accuracy, maybe consider a MT3 collet chuck (or make your own to screw on) and a set of ER25, 32 or 40 collets


----------



## Glenn Brooks

Yep, my experience also. .003” runout in a three jaw is about what all of them do.

I had a similar experience replacing a stack of shims and having the spindle lock up.  Two things will cause this: torquing down the headstock bolts/screws to much, thus pinching the bearing into the headstock. Or,,,Replacing shims with to thick a stack- again, forcing the bearing and bearing cap against the spindle.

The best solution is to yep, go buy some more shim stock- a package with multiple thicknesses is what you need. Then select the right set of thicknesses to shim to your ideal .001” clearance.

In your case, you’ve got the tolerance of the spindle down to .002” more or less. So ideally, take a 002” shim out of the stack, and replace it with a .001” shim. Thus you shrink the shim thickness to .001”, and still have a free spinning spindle. Ideal! 

It’s maddening, I know. But worth doing in the long run. Once it’s set, it’s set!

Glenn


----------



## LX Kid

Why does the spindle seize up when I have .0015" clearance?  Maybe my "cheapo" dial gage isn't doing it's job in accuracy.


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> Why are you so concerned about the runout of this chuck?  Even a new one, the best will be ~ .003 which isn't good enough to re-chuck work.



If I chuck up a round rod the runout is .013" and you can actually see it turning out of round.   That's a lot!  Collets and a bar are going to be very expensive.  Can chuck jaws be ground by using a Dremel by making up some sort of mounting for it?  I just answered my own question.  I  checked out YouBoob and some are doing just that.


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> Why does the spindle seize up when I have .0015" clearance?  Maybe my "cheapo" dial gage isn't doing it's job in accuracy.


Are you sure that your shims aren't being forced into the spindle?  And I'm willing to bet that you DON'T have 0.0015" clearance.  How can you have any clearance when the spindle is locked?


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> Are you sure that your shims aren't being forced into the spindle?  And I'm willing to bet that you DON'T have 0.0015" clearance.  How can you have any clearance when the spindle is locked?



I had also thought about that and didn't push them all the way in.  I'm really suspecting that my Chinese dial gage isn't doing correct reading!  I'm going to get another gage from somewhere and give that a try.  Could .0005" really make that much difference?


----------



## LX Kid

Down in one of my drawers I found this Starrett gage that I forgot I had and never used before.  I am now reading .0005 - .001" on the spindle nose!


----------



## LX Kid

My Chinese dial gage says accurate to +/- .003.  Could have been my problem all along.  Here's the Dremel setup I made to try and grind the jaws.  Putting 1" OD bearing to use as a tightening spacer on backside of jaws.  Had to order some Dremel stones to use.


----------



## LX Kid

My 80T gear came in and I replaced it for the old one.   Runs pretty quiet now and is no longer the thrashing machine of when I first got it.  rs;I had ordered some indexable carbide tool bits and it seems to really cut nice now.  I would like to find out the part number for 1/4" and 5/16" carbide inserts that have a more rounded profile.   The ones that came with the  two different sets I bought are very pointed.  Anyone have a suggestion for me?  Still waiting on my Dremel grinding stones to see what I can do for the chuck jaws.  I'm starting to feel like I can see the light at the end of the tunnel to have a good running/cutting lathe.  Everything is coming together now and maybe I can start a project or two in the near future.


----------



## LX Kid

I was browsing eBay and found a compound assembly with a "new" screw for $79 for the pair.  It was just too good a deal to pass up!  Mine has soo much slop in it so I decided to buy it.


----------



## Chuck K

LX Kid said:


> I was browsing eBay and found a compound assembly with a "new" screw for $79 for the pair.  It was just too good a deal to pass up!  Mine has soo much slop in it so I decided to buy it.


Did it include the nut?


----------



## LX Kid

Chuck K said:


> Did it include the nut?


Yes.  I lost a nut somewhere in my shop.  It hit the floor and rolled away somewhere.  I had to make one out of a nut.


----------



## Chuck K

LX Kid said:


> yes.


That should tighten things up. It would have been a good project to make on your new lathe.


----------



## LX Kid

This really makes me sick!!!!  Just saw this SB 9A on Facebook for $1300.  It's been gone thru and comes with a lot of tooling.


----------



## Chuck K

LX Kid said:


> This really makes me sick!!!!  Just saw this SB 9A on Facebook for $1300.  It's been gone thru and comes with a lot of tooling.


Patience is key if you're buying old iron.


----------



## LX Kid

Gave it a whirl at truing the chuck this evening.  I went from .013" down to .004" runout.  It is very slow going and my knees and ankles were just give out and had to stop.  I'll finish it up tomorrow.   The Dremel pencil worked like a charm.  I used a 1-1/8" OD bearing deep inside on the back flats of the jaws to be able to tighten the jaws.  (Saw it on YouBoob)  The #3 jaw was the one that was way out.  Going to grind about another .002" and call it done.  i'm already happy with the .004" but just a little more would be better.


----------



## SLK001

Before you went ahead and screwed up your chuck, did you AT LEAST disassemble it and check for swarf caught in the scroll or threads?


----------



## martik777

LX Kid said:


> This really makes me sick!!!!  Just saw this SB 9A on Facebook for $1300.  It's been gone thru and comes with a lot of tooling.



You probably don't want to hear about the 9A I got in mint condition for $480CAD ($370 USD) from a local school auction


----------



## martik777

SLK001 said:


> Before you went ahead and screwed up your chuck, did you AT LEAST disassemble it and check for swarf caught in the scroll or threads?


I was thinking that too but saw he posted a while back that he disassembled and cleaned it up. Maybe jaws out of position?


----------



## MontanaLon

If you get the jaws in the wrong order it is like 3/16 of an inch of runout, it wouldn't even be close.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> Before you went ahead and screwed up your chuck, did you AT LEAST disassemble it and check for swarf caught in the scroll or threads?


Yes I did as discussed in previous posting.   All the jaws were numbered to match chuck numbers so no mix up.   I Was up early this morning so I finished grinding jaws down to .001” runout.


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> You probably don't want to hear about the 9A I got in mint condition for $480CAD ($370 USD) from a local school auction


No more salt in my open wounds!  If there is such a thing as learning satisfaction I have paid my dues.  I learned a lot off this lathe and now it cuts and runs sweet even though the ways have a lot of wear but is consistent for about 3/4 of the bed length.  Good enough for any little hobby needs I may have.  It's like the old saying goes, "Experience cost!  How much you wanna pay?"


----------



## LX Kid

After my"new" compound screw arrives, and installed, New cross-slide and compound nuts have already been replaced.  I don't know what else I could do to make the lathe any better.   I could do some touch up painting cause everyone knows that a pretty well painted lathe is a good lathe!  Ha Ha ha ha Ha!  Put me on medications cause I gotta get some emotional relief.  LoL  Well actually I did remember that I bought a QCTP that I need to put on the compound after making a mount for it.


----------



## martik777

LX Kid said:


> Yes I did as discussed in previous posting.   All the jaws were numbered to match chuck numbers so no mix up.   I Was up early this morning so I finished grinding jaws down to .001” runout.


Did you test the runout with different diameters?


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> Did you test the runout with different diameters?


No, not yet,  but you can physically see a big difference in the lack of wobble due to non concentricity.  I ground down jaw #3, about .013", till it was same as #1 and #2 jaws and then went another .001" to clean all the jaws the same.  It was not as hard, as I thought it was going to be, once I watched the YouBoob video using a Dremel pencil.  I made the Dremel pencil holder a couple of years ago but had never used it till now.


----------



## LX Kid

Always seems to be something to keep me from completing a project.  I made the QCTP mount but lack a 12.5mm drill bit.  I want to use the 14mm bolt that came with the QCTP and already have the 14x1.5mm tap.  Local hardware store wanted $19.99 for a drill bit and told them to just keep it!  Bought one on eBay for $6.98 shipped but now have to wait a week for delivery.


----------



## SLK001

A 1/2" drill wouldn't work for this?  It's only 0.008" over-sized and you're tapping into steel.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> A 1/2" drill wouldn't work for this?  It's only 0.008" over-sized and you're tapping into steel.


.008" is quite a bit.  Think I'll just wait cause don't really need the QCTP at the moment.


----------



## martik777

This metric cobalt drill bit set is excellent: https://www.banggood.com/Drillpro-2...-p-1307707.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN






Could always bore it out to the exact size on the lathe  even with a 3 jaw


----------



## LX Kid

Received my new and old compound screws today.  Installed and now only have .005" slop now instead of the .020" with the old screw.  It is a small dial but I find it earsier to read because of the crisp lines on the dial.  I could always switch dials it I find it cumbersome.


----------



## LX Kid

Did a cut test to find out the way wear between two points.   At 2-1/4" from chuck jaws I was off .003" from 5-3/4" out due to the further out I went the better the ways got and tolerance got tighter.  Don't guess there is anything that can be done short of finding a derelick 9A just for the bed and I don't think that's going to happen with me.  In the pic you can see the wear lip at the top of the way!  (Just above the text.)


----------



## SLK001

Have you leveled your lathe?

Did you center your tailstock?

Your tool is extending out way too far.  0.003" is too much difference to be due to the ways - my guess is that the tailstock is not on center.


----------



## MontanaLon

http://www.lostcreekmachine.com/index.htm

Click "Here" under lathe parts, 5th item down. Pictures aren't great but it is fairly local to me so I could take a look at it.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> Have you leveled your lathe?
> 
> Did you center your tailstock?
> 
> Your tool is extending out way too far.  0.003" is too much difference to be due to the ways - my guess is that the tailstock is not on center.



Very good point!   I found that it was necessary to add .005" shim stock to level it out with the spindle. I had leveled the tailstock before I had shimed the spindle but not after and I also ground the jaws.  Those two things might be affecting my tolerances.   I'm sure that it had changed after truing the chuck.  I need to go back and check that.   Thanks!


----------



## LX Kid

MontanaLon said:


> http://www.lostcreekmachine.com/index.htm
> 
> Click "Here" under lathe parts, 5th item down. Pictures aren't great but it is fairly local to me so I could take a look at it.


Wow!  That would really be great that you would do that for me.  $99 isn't bad but don't know what shipping would be like to Tampa, Florida.  The ways appear to look pretty good from the pictures.  Thank you!!


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> Have you leveled your lathe?
> 
> Did you center your tailstock?
> 
> Your tool is extending out way too far.  0.003" is too much difference to be due to the ways - my guess is that the tailstock is not on center.


Yes I did level my lathe.  Seems pretty solid as I screwed the table to the wall also.   Your correct about the tool extending too far.  That tool holder dead ends about half the length of the tool bit.  I'm going to cut the few tool bits I have in half so they will be shorter.


----------



## Chuck K

LX Kid said:


> Received my new and old compound screws today.  Installed and now only have .005" slop now instead of the .020" with the old screw.  It is a small dial but I find it earsier to read because of the crisp lines on the dial.  I could always switch dials it I find it cumbersome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 314073


I've been staring at this pic because something didn't seem right to me.  That hex nut and washer behind the graduated dial should be a round collar with a hash mark on the top and a spanner hole on the bottom. I'm to tired to walk out to the shop and look at mine, but I think I have that right.  Doesn't matter if it works.


----------



## LX Kid

Chuck K said:


> I've been staring at this pic because something didn't seem right to me.  That hex nut and washer behind the graduated dial should be a round collar with a hash mark on the top and a spanner hole on the bottom. I'm to tired to walk out to the shop and look at mine, but I think I have that right.  Doesn't matter if it works.


Your correct.  Don't know if you saw where I bought that screw assembly off eBay and have just installed it today.  That screw assembly probably came off an older 9" lathe with a smaller dial gage.  It has a hex nut instead of the round collar with a spanner hole.  I added a washer trying to get the "0" to be at the top for alignment with the scale but didn't work out so I just added a punch mark.  I could just change the large dial from my old screw but it works fine for now.


----------



## MontanaLon

LX Kid said:


> Wow!  That would really be great that you would do that for me.  $99 isn't bad but don't know what shipping would be like to Tampa, Florida.  The ways appear to look pretty good from the pictures.  Thank you!!


Maybe we can set up a pony express. I can get it to Crawfordsville, Indiana. If someone else is local to there and could advance it closer to Tampa and so on, we might be able to make it low cost.


----------



## LX Kid

MontanaLon said:


> Maybe we can set up a pony express. I can get it to Crawfordsville, Indiana. If someone else is local to there and could advance it closer to Tampa and so on, we might be able to make it low cost.


I'll give them a call tomorrow and see what the shipping charges would be.   My lathe was shipped to me from Illinois by FASENEL and was $175 for a whole complete lathe with table.  I'm thinking it should be quite a bit cheaper for just the lathe bed.


----------



## martik777

I wouldn't count on that bed having less wear than yours, good chance it has more, plus your saddle ways will not match the new bed. Work with what you have and tweak the leveling to determine if it suits your needs.


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> I wouldn't count on that bed having less wear than yours, good chance it has more, plus your saddle ways will not match the new bed. Work with what you have and tweak the leveling to determine if it suits your needs.


I went back and did an re-alignment of the tailstock and now found it was over shimmed.  I removed/replaced shims and now I'm reading good on my cuts.  Saw this quick alignment trick on YouBoob and seemed to work out good for me.  Steel rule between the two dead centers.  The pic is before re-shimming.   Thanks


----------



## LX Kid

MontanaLon said:


> Maybe we can set up a pony express. I can get it to Crawfordsville, Indiana. If someone else is local to there and could advance it closer to Tampa and so on, we might be able to make it low cost.


I'm kinda in a "hmmm, I wonder" mode now.  I realigned / re-shimmed  my tailstock and now it's cutting quite good.  Don't know if I should buy the lathe bed or not.  It' been brought to my attention that my saddle wear might not fit well with the new lathe bed.


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> ...now I'm reading good on my cuts.



How good?

Here's a chart of how bed wear affects the cut:


----------



## DavidR8

LX Kid said:


> I went back and did an re-alignment of the tailstock and now found it was over shimmed. I removed/replaced shims and now I'm reading good on my cuts. Saw this quick alignment trick on YouBoob and seemed to work out good for me. Steel rule between the two dead centers. Thanks



Not sure if that’s the after alignment pic but I think the tail stock is higher than the spindle. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Choiliefan

LX, are you laundering drug money?


----------



## LX Kid

DavidR8 said:


> Not sure if that’s the after alignment pic but I think the tail stock is higher than the spindle.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The pic was before I re-shimmed.   I just did another test cut and "now" I'm off again!   Checked with mic and am .007" off and with a dial gage I'm off by .004" between ends.  I zeroed on the tailstock end.


----------



## LX Kid

Frustrating!


----------



## Chuck K

If you're relying on the zero hash on the rear of the spindle,  you will probably cut a taper.  Take a cut, measure, adjust for half the run out, repeat, repeat.......


----------



## Choiliefan

What does your other, better test indicator show?
I thought this one was giving errant readings?


----------



## martik777

SLK001 said:


> How good?
> 
> Here's a chart of how bed wear affects the cut:
> 
> View attachment 314123



That only accounts for vertical wear or tool drop. The wear on the sides of the V will more significantly effect the diameter


----------



## martik777

Expecting perfection from a ~ 80 year old lathe with mismatched parts is unrealistic. Most of your work will likely be in the first couple  inches in front of the chuck. Perform a test cut with a very sharp tool bit on a 1" or greater bar with about 3" of stickout unsupported with the tailstock and mic both ends. This will eliminate tailstock alignment from the test.  Raise or lower the front or back end of the rear bed foot to adjust for bed twist.


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> Expecting perfection from a ~ 80 year old lathe with mismatched parts is unrealistic. Most of your work will likely be in the first couple  inches in front of the chuck. Perform a test cut with a very sharp tool bit on a 1" or greater bar with about 3" of stickout unsupported with the tailstock and mic both ends. This will eliminate tailstock alignment from the test.  Raise or lower the front or back end of the rear bed foot to adjust for bed twist.



I think you're right.  Trying to get perfection out of an old and abused lathe is crazy endeavor.   Think I'll just use it the way it is and I'm sure it will do everything I need it to do plus or minus a thou here and there.   It makes nice mostly concentric cuts and for me it's just a play toy for my amusement anyway.  Little expensive on the investment end but I'll get over it.  Once I get my QCTP installed I'll try and find a use for my iron beast.   LoL   In a day or two I'll start on my next lathe project which is a Atlas/Craftsman 618/101 and sell it to recover a little money that I sunk into the SB 9A.   (In a hundred years what's it gonna matter?)


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> How good?
> 
> Here's a chart of how bed wear affects the cut:
> 
> View attachment 314123


Well that clears everything up!   Well clear as mud anyway.  LoL


----------



## martik777

Think of it this way.... You've learnt a lot, enjoyed yourself and entertained a bunch of fellow hobbyists for 6 weeks, plus you have a good lathe that will last many years.  And it cost less than a 1wk all-inclusive vacation to Mexico.


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> Think of it this way.... You've learnt a lot, enjoyed yourself and entertained a bunch of fellow hobbyists for 6 weeks, plus you have a good lathe that will last many years.  And it cost less than a 1wk all-inclusive vacation to Mexico.



If anyone wants more entertainment and want to help the mentally impaired this is the link over in the Atlas/Craftsman forum for my next restoration.








						Next project:  Craftsman 101.07301 6" lathe
					

Picked up a Craftsman 101.07301 for cheap.  Haven't spent a lot of time checking it out as I'm still working on my SB 9A restoration.  I did find that I had to order a complete back gear assembly, handwheel and half-nuts and as luck would have it I do already have a 1/3hp to use.  A 1/2 hp is...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


----------



## LX Kid

Tell me all I never wanted to know about threading!  I was playing around and thinking I'd try single point threading.   "But" there is so much slop between the half nuts and the lead screw that I can't get it to engage on the dial consistently.  There is a lot of lag either before or after the number on the dial.  Does that mean I would have to replace the lead screw and or the half nuts?  To "me" they look good but what does a newbie know that has never done threading.


----------



## LX Kid

Ok, here goes a dumb question/idea.  Is there a bonding dip that the half nuts could be dipped, to build up a thou or two, and then clamped to the lead screw until it was cured?


While asking dumb question/ideas, how about a steel sleeve that would be bonded over the way?


----------



## Chuck K

LX Kid said:


> Tell me all I never wanted to know about threading!  I was playing around and thinking I'd try single point threading.   "But" there is so much slop between the half nuts and the lead screw that I can't get it to engage on the dial consistently.  There is a lot of lag either before or after the number on the dial.  Does that mean I would have to replace the lead screw and or the half nuts?  To "me" they look good but what does a newbie know that has never done threading.
> View attachment 314251


Hard to tell just looking at a pic.  You should just play with it until you figure out the sweet spot to engage and then cut some practice threads.  My 9A has worn everything, but I can still make good parts on it.  I bought a printed thread dial for it.  It's plastic but it works. I like threading with it.  It's a fun machine to run.


----------



## MontanaLon

LX Kid said:


> Ok, here goes a dumb question/idea.  Is there a bonding dip that the half nuts could be dipped, to build up a thou or two, and then clamped to the lead screw until it was cured?
> 
> 
> While asking dumb question/ideas, how about a steel sleeve that would be bonded over the way?


A dip? Not that would last any length of time. The half nuts look good, crest and trough of thread same width, tops not sharp, bottoms not wallowed out. How does the lead screw look? If the teeth are sharpened looking it may be tired. How does the gear on the end of the threading dial look? All chewed up? 

You can try threading without the dial by leaving the half nuts engaged after you make a cut and reversing the spindle to back up to the beginning. Withdraw the tool before you back up or you will chew up the work, the tool or both.

And for what it is worth, I have trouble with timing the thread by the dial myself, it takes practice to get good at it. Joe Pi has a good video on it, running slow helps.


----------



## LX Kid

MontanaLon said:


> How does the lead screw look? If the teeth are sharpened looking it may be tired. How does the gear on the end of the threading dial look? All chewed up?


I didn't think about the threading dial teeth.  I'll go have a look.  (I'm back)  The gear looks very worn to me.  Are 3D printed gears any good?  I can get the whole 3D printed dial assembly for $28.  "OR,"I can buy just the 3D printed gear to replace the one on my metal assembly.


----------



## MontanaLon

LX Kid said:


> I didn't think about the threading dial teeth.  I'll go have a look.  (I'm back)  The gear looks very worn to me.  Are 3D printed gears any good?  I can get the whole 3D printed dial assembly for $28.  "OR,"I can buy just the 3D printed gear to replace the one on my metal assembly.


Lead screw looks good. My threading dial is for a 10" and looks different than yours in the thread profile. My lathe is 80 years old soooooo hard to tell which is in better shape.

Did you check with Lost Creek on the bed?


----------



## LX Kid

MontanaLon said:


> Did you check with Lost Creek on the bed?



No.  I got busy this morning and then forgot to call.  Thanks for the reminder.

I went ahead and ordered the 3D dial gear to replace mine on the metal housing.


----------



## Glenn Brooks

Best way to know if lead screw and cross slide screw are OK is to Take some finish cuts on a piece of round stock.  If the cross slide screw threads are worn, your finish cut will show abnormalities- ranging from random changes in ID, to a series of concentric rings periodically inscribed around the work.  Sometimes themthreads don’t show obvious signs of wear, but if the finish, or repeatability of DOC for the ID varies, you will want to consider replacing. 

Glenn


----------



## LX Kid

Found another area where the lead screw is moving .670" between the QCGB housing and lead screw.  Gonna have add washer between the two in order to remove the slop.


----------



## Choiliefan

.670?


----------



## LX Kid

Choiliefan said:


> .670?  Ha ha!  How about .0670"   Think thats a little better measirement.


----------



## LX Kid

Removed the QCGB and lead screw.  Added a thin washer between gear and housing and now the clearance is .005".  Big difference!!

I don't know if there was supposed to be a washer between the lead screw drive gear and housing or not cause I can't find a parts breakdown that would show it.  Anyway it's it a lot better and when my new dial drive gear arrives it should be working properly.  (I hope!)


----------



## LX Kid

MontanaLon said:


> Lead screw looks good. My threading dial is for a 10" and looks different than yours in the thread profile. My lathe is 80 years old soooooo hard to tell which is in better shape.
> 
> Did you check with Lost Creek on the bed?


Didn't call about shipping as I have decided I'll just use it the way it is.  I've got $2350 in this lathe and about another $150 for a lathe bed just not wanting to do.  As is I'm pretty sure this lathe will do everything I'll need it to do.


----------



## LX Kid

MontanaLon said:


> http://www.lostcreekmachine.com/index.htm
> 
> Click "Here" under lathe parts, 5th item down. Pictures aren't great but it is fairly local to me so I could take a look at it.


I did call about the lathe bed and he said based on an approximate estimate, thru UPS, for about 125 pounds, (guesstimate), would be around $100-$115 to get it to Tampa, Florida.  He also said there is a visible wear line on the way but nothing that a fingernail would catch on.   Hmmmmmm!


----------



## MontanaLon

LX Kid said:


> I did call about the lathe bed and he said based on an approximate estimate, thru UPS, for about 125 pounds, (guesstimate), would be around $100-$115 to get it to Tampa, Florida.  He also said there is a visible wear line on the way but nothing that a fingernail would catch on.   Hmmmmmm!


Well, let me know and I can go take a look. Was supposed to be "snowmaggedon" today but it seems to not be panning out. I've got a few things to peruse for myself as well.


----------



## LX Kid

MontanaLon said:


> Well, let me know and I can go take a look. Was supposed to be "snowmaggedon" today but it seems to not be panning out. I've got a few things to peruse for myself as well.


Still "sitting on the fence post" on buying it.  That's another $200 or so added to what I already spent.


----------



## MontanaLon

LX Kid said:


> Still "sitting on the fence post" on buying it.  That's another $200 or so added to what I already spent.


Well, I tell you what. I will take a look at it and let you know how it looks. It has been there at least 6 months and I doubt it will go fast. So if you decide you need it in the future, it will be an option. I need to go and fight the urge to lighten my bank account anyway.


----------



## LX Kid

MontanaLon said:


> Well, I tell you what. I will take a look at it and let you know how it looks. It has been there at least 6 months and I doubt it will go fast. So if you decide you need it in the future, it will be an option. I need to go and fight the urge to lighten my bank account anyway.


Thanks!  I guess I need to look under my cross slide to see if it's got a wear gruve that would be detrimental to mate with a better way than mine is.


----------



## martik777

If you look closely at the photos of that bed it looks like someone went over it with sandpaper. I wouldn't buy it


----------



## LX Kid

Can't be any worse than my way that has about an 1/16" - 1/8" wear lip.  Not going to find perfect WWII bed I would suppose.


----------



## LX Kid

MontanaLon said:


> Well, I tell you what. I will take a look at it and let you know how it looks. It has been there at least 6 months and I doubt it will go fast. So if you decide you need it in the future, it will be an option. I need to go and fight the urge to lighten my bank account anyway.


Was wondering if you had a chance to look at that lathe bed yet?  Thanks


----------



## SLK001

martik777 said:


> If you look closely at the photos of that bed it looks like someone went over it with sandpaper. I wouldn't buy it



It's worse than that... It looks like someone went over it with a file.


----------



## DavidR8

If it were me I'd sit tight and use what you've restored. The possibility of getting a bed for $99 in a condition that is sufficiently better than what you have such that it would make a significant difference to your parts is pretty slim.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> It's worse than that... It looks like someone went over it with a file.


Well when "*MontanaLon" *has a chance he said he would go there and check it out for me as he lives close by.  Just have to wait and see.  Not sure that I really want to put another $200 in my lathe.


----------



## LX Kid

Here's a pic of my way just in foront of the chuck.  The lip slowly is diminished at about 15" away from the chuck.


----------



## MontanaLon

LX Kid said:


> Was wondering if you had a chance to look at that lathe bed yet?  Thanks


I am going to try tomorrow.


----------



## MontanaLon

LX Kid said:


> Well when "*MontanaLon" *has a chance he said he would go there and check it out for me as he lives close by.  Just have to wait and see.  Not sure that I really want to put another $200 in my lathe.


I got a call on the way home, tomorrow is questionable now, I have to go interview 3 employees to figure out which one gets fired for being stupid. Unfortunately, it is in the wrong direction by about 80 miles and I have no idea how long the interviews will take. It may be next week before I get to the shop now, and of course, all the stuff I have been ogling for myself will probably be sold this weekend. Just my luck.


----------



## LX Kid

Life just got a whole lot better!  My ordered 12.5mm drill bit came in today and I could finish my QCTP installation.  Works great!


----------



## SLK001

LX Kid said:


> Life just got a whole lot better!  My ordered 1.5mm drill bit came in today and I could finish my QCTP installation.  Works great!



Where are you using the 1.5mm drill?


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> Where are you using the 1.5mm drill?


Typo, 12.5mm drill.


----------



## LX Kid

Yea!  Made my first project part this afternoon.  It's a shaft cable pulley for a 1937 Craftsman drill press.  I can't find a spindle return spring anywhere.  They don't make them anymore.  So I'm going to use 1/8" steel cable and a counter weight to return the spindle to the top after drilling an item.  The original spring assembly fits into the hole as shown in 2nd pic.  It's a flat spring with a cover that's missing.


----------



## BrentH

> I can't find a spindle return spring anywhere



Nothing here would work? : https://www.mcmaster.com/coil-springs


----------



## LX Kid

BrentH said:


> Nothing here would work? : https://www.mcmaster.com/coil-springs


No.  Those are coiled springs.   Like the attached pic but it has a integral cover that it fits inside of for adjustment.  It's similar to the second pic.


----------



## BrentH

Ah yes........the spring cover I take it you would rotate until you have a good return spring without the handle flying back at you. Then bolt the cover  into place.


----------



## Choiliefan

For future reference:








						McMaster-Carr
					

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.




					www.mcmaster.com
				



The OWWM site is a good source for used parts for old American iron.


----------



## LX Kid

Seems to work just fine.


----------



## LX Kid

Ok here's a question coming from dumb and dumber!  How hard would it be to grind the lathe bed way to match the existing wear that the way now has?  Just a futile exersize for someone with a mental dissability called stupid!  LoL  Seems like there could be a grinding jig that could be made to fit on top of the way for matching the wear.


----------



## SLK001

It's not hard at all.  There are places that do this all the time.  Just remember that what you grind off the bed has to be ADDED to the headstock, carriage and tailstock.  Search for "machine rebuilders" to find an outfit near you.


----------



## Choiliefan

Somewhere on Youtube is a video of a guy grinding a large bed with a sled-mounted router and grinding wheel.
There was a lot of discussion of it on PM years ago with many positive comments as to the practicality.
Richard King may remember the video.


----------



## martik777

LX Kid said:


> Ok here's a question coming from dumb and dumber!  How hard would it be to grind the lathe bed way to match the existing wear that the way now has?  Just a futile exersize for someone with a mental dissability called stupid!  LoL  Seems like there could be a grinding jig that could be made to fit on top of the way for matching the wear.


I did this on one of my 9A's, with similar wear to yours and it came out quite well.  I made a jig with a compound attached to the tailstock base so it was only as accurate as the tailstock ways which were not too worn. I only did the front v-way for about 2/3 the length of the bed since I never needed to turn anything longer than a few inches.  I used a brazed on carbide toolbit. Have a look at this:


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> It's not hard at all.  There are places that do this all the time.  Just remember that what you grind off the bed has to be ADDED to the headstock, carriage and tailstock.  Search for "machine rebuilders" to find an outfit near you.


Those components work just fine on the worn ways.  I just want to match the last half of the way to match the first part of the worn way including the lip.  I don't want the lip ground down but match it.  The tailstock can be shimmed, as is now, for deviations.


----------



## SLK001

Is it me, or can anyone else even see a dovetail on that bed?


----------



## LX Kid

Very interesting video.  I can see how that would be pretty easy with the flat ways that he has.  With the right made jig it might be possible to do the same with an inverted "V" way but sherley be a little more complex job.  What kind of device/scraper is using to hand scrape cast iron?  Anyone care to draw such a jig that I might make and give it a try???  This newbie might not be such a good McGuyver at designing such a thing.  I do have an old Chinese compound laying around here somewhere.  could it be something as simple as an old wood plane that could be modified to do the job?


----------



## MontanaLon

SLK001 said:


> Is it me, or can anyone else even see a dovetail on that bed?


It is cutting the "dovetail" on the inside edge of the bed, for what reason I haven't figured out yet.


----------



## LX Kid

SLK001 said:


> Is it me, or can anyone else even see a dovetail on that bed?


Are you talking about my picture or the one in the video?   I guess your talking about the video.  Oh yeh, tell the newbie what a dovetail on the bed is??


----------



## martik777

Here's a photo of the jig.  Angle the compound parallel to the v-way, then use the compound dial to adjust the stroke for each pass. The compound is attached to an angle plate which was attached to the tailstock base. Tool bit is a large brazed carbide.


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> Here's a photo of the jig.  Angle the compound parallel to the v-way, then use the compound dial to adjust the stroke for each pass. The compound is attached to an angle plate which was attached to the tailstock base. Tool bit is a large brazed carbide.
> 
> View attachment 315404


Well that's a very interesting setup!  Maybe that would be one way for me to get-r-done.   Have to find my spare compound and do some "thunken" on this.  Looks like a good idea.  Thanks


----------



## MontanaLon

LX Kid said:


> Was wondering if you had a chance to look at that lathe bed yet?  Thanks


I looked at it today. It is in fairly decent condition. Wear on the back side of the front V-way is noticeable by touch. A fingernail won't catch on it, it feels more like it is dished out just a little. It fades out about 8 inches from the headstock. Fingernail won't catch on it but I could feel the difference in the surface. Tailstock V way had a visible wear line but nothing that could be felt quite a bit of drop marks on it close to the chuck too. Nothing that would affect use of the tailstock that close to the headstock.


----------



## LX Kid

MontanaLon said:


> I looked at it today. It is in fairly decent condition. Wear on the back side of the front V-way is noticeable by touch. A fingernail won't catch on it, it feels more like it is dished out just a little. It fades out about 8 inches from the headstock. Fingernail won't catch on it but I could feel the difference in the surface. Tailstock V way had a visible wear line but nothing that could be felt quite a bit of drop marks on it close to the chuck too. Nothing that would affect use of the tailstock that close to the headstock.


Thank you very much for going out of you way for me.  Got do some "thunken" on it and figure out if I really "need" it or not.


----------



## Choiliefan

My second or third lathe was an ancient 16" South Bend which a previous owner cut the worn end of the bed off and re-mounted everything forward.
It worked fine but the distance between centers was only about 16-18 inches so rather limited.


----------



## martik777

On the 9 or 10k you can slide the headstock forward and make an extension for the gear train to the stud gear:


----------



## LX Kid

That's pretty cool idea!  I don't think that would be a viable idea for me though.  I'd only be able to use the last six inches of my lathe bed!  LoL


----------



## LX Kid

I know I'm going to take a lot of flack for this and I could just keep my mouth shut but I like sharing.  I took a very fine flat file to the way to take away the lip at the top.  I draw filed it and then use 600 grit to smooth things out.  Haven't done a test cut yet for a dial gage check but maybe tonight.  If I have something that needs really tight tolerance between ends then I'll just use a 4-jaw chuck to level things out.  (As soon as I buy a back plate for the Chinese one that I have.)


----------



## SLK001

Cutting off the lip will do nothing for your cut.  Now, if you had built up the depression with weld and had no distortion, then ground that down to be level with the lip, then that would have been impressive.

The lip, after all, is a non-wear area.  It is at the original height and is where you want the rest of the ways to be.  Basically, you just filed off your reference.


----------



## martik777

You can still use the worn area (lowest point) as a reference to plane the rest of the v-way to the same level as I described above. It only takes a few minutes, that cast iron comes off easily. After I was done, I scraped in some diagonal grooves  for oil retention, a tenth or two deep.


----------



## LX Kid

I guess this lathe is pretty much done.  Runs nicely and am happy with it at this point.


----------



## DavidR8

LX Kid said:


> I guess this lathe is pretty much done.  Runs nicely and am happy with it at this point.


Looks great!
Did you make the indicator holder in the second picture?


----------



## LX Kid

DavidR8 said:


> Looks great!
> Did you make the indicator holder in the second picture?


No.  I bought it off eBay for $35.   I was a little surprised with the high quality of a "3-D printed" object.


----------



## LX Kid

martik777 said:


> You can still use the worn area (lowest point) as a reference to plane the rest of the v-way to the same level as I described above. It only takes a few minutes, that cast iron comes off easily. After I was done, I scraped in some diagonal grooves  for oil retention, a tenth or two deep.


No need now!  I sold it 2 weeks ago!  It was the 3rd South Bend that I have rehabbed in the last 2 years.  Replaced it with an Atlas/Craftsman 618 I refurbed about 1-1/2 years ago and just made it run yesterday for the first time now that I had room on the lathe stand.  Hums like a sewing machine.  I left the gear cover off while I adjusted the gears.   Ordered a QCTP yesterday OXA-250.


----------

