# Is cheaper hydraulic oil OK?



## Dgrose (Feb 3, 2020)

I am brand new and starting to learn.  I just bought a lathe from Precision Matthews (1440GT) and will be picking it up later this week.  I notice they spec Mobil DTE heavy/medium iso 68 SAE 20 grade oil.  I looked at MSC and  they want $175 for 5 gallons.  I read several other posts on this forum and wanted to know if I can buy other brands that are in the $40-50 dollar range.  Are they basically the same thing or am I making a mistake.  Rural King has harvest King AW6820W for $14 dollars for 2 gallon jug.  Will this do?  Or is it important to buy the stuff for $175  Thanks


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## macardoso (Feb 3, 2020)

I have little experience with hydraulic oil so I cannot comment on what to buy. I did work for a machine shop a few years back that "saved some money" on the oil coolant for a $1.2M gear grinding machine. The oil ended up being corrosive and eating all the black oxide off the machine as well as destroying the chiller and filtration unit. Cost them a couple hundred grand to replace everything. I would have thought all oil to be the same but obviously there is some bad stuff out there.


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## Dgrose (Feb 3, 2020)

I heard some oil is corrosive to brass.  I guess it is stupid to pay big money for a lathe and then penny pinch on the oil.  I just am not informed enough to know the difference.


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## darkzero (Feb 3, 2020)

I have heard of a number of people using plain ol hydraulic fluid without issue. I never have so can't share any experienece.

Wow, prices have gone up. I used to pay like $22 a gal for DTE from Enco. The last 2 gallons I purchased from my local MSC was $28/gal. About $10 more now.

It's $30 a gallon on Amazon with free prime shipping. Or $112 shipped for 5 gallons. You don't need 5 gallons for the lathe though unless you have other needs for the left over oil.


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## mksj (Feb 3, 2020)

Mobil DTE is just an example, the Harvest King or similar hydraulic oil of the same ISO rating is fine. Typically hydraulic oils have anti-foaming and anti-rust inhibits which you want. You do not want extreme pressure (EP) agents which are more commonly found is differential/hypoid type gear oils, they are typically some form of sulfur based EP agents that can cause degradation of yellow metals. This is a bit more of a historical problem, the newer EP additives are inactivated and require heat to become active, still best to avoid. You do not want to use a detergent oil (like engine car oils) in a machine that does not have a pressure lube system with a filter. On viscosity, ISO is more the standard, SAE can be confusing between hydraulic, engine and gear oils.

Probably the most important thing to maintaining the health of your machine is regular/annual oil changes, even with little use, water can accumulate in the oil which can lead to rust, in addition to accumulation of metal particles.  I usually install a strong magnet in my oil drain plugs to retain the metal particles, you will be amazed at the amount of metal particles that you will find attached to them. It is usually recommended to break in a new lathe by running the spindle at a series of escalating speeds for for 20-30 minutes at each level, and likewise for the gears. Also run the machine in reverse. Change the oil after around 20 hours of use when new.


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## Stonebriar (Feb 3, 2020)

Congratulations.  I have the same lathe and I am very happy with it.  The head stock takes 4 quarts, saddle feed gearbox 2 quarts, and the apron 1 quart. After paying what I did for the lathe I would not want to use a lesser product than recommended. Zoro has that oil for $35 a gallon. I usually by the gallon size.  Looks like everyone has about the same price on it.  Sadly Enco was the best.









						Mobil 100959 $42.01 1 gal Circulating Oil Can 68 ISO Viscosity,  20 SAE | Zoro.com
					

Order Mobil 1 gal Circulating Oil Can 68 ISO Viscosity,  20 SAE, 100959 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.




					www.zoro.com


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## Dgrose (Feb 3, 2020)

Thanks everyone for your help. This was just what I was looking for.


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## middle.road (Feb 3, 2020)

I'll bet that if you retrieved the specs of Mobil DTE it wouldn't be much different that the ISO68 Hydraulic Oil that you can pick up at Tractor Supply or Rural King.
There's a thread around here somewhere where we did the comparison of oils a few years back.
Mobil DTE might have some different additives for 'Turbines & Vacuum pumps' in it, but the fact is that we're dealing with a rather basic gearbox that is a lot simpler than what you find in the hydraulics systems on tractors. We're not even 'pumping' oil anywhere that I can see.


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## Bi11Hudson (Feb 3, 2020)

Most of my machinery is old, as in manually lubricate everything. The types of oil that I use vary with the type of machinery. I can't speak directly to what you need, just give some insight into my stuff. I _do_ buy tractor oil in 5 gallon cans, R&O oil it's called. For the tractor hydraulics and in the dump truck lift cylinder. I can mix it half and half in a pinch with power steering fluid for jacks and porta-power pumps. I also use it in a few places that call for gear lube, like a gear driven tiller and a post hole drill.

I keep automotive transmission on hand, but mostly for cleaning. Adding a pint to the crankcase 100 miles before an oil change, that sort of thing. My wife drives a fairly new (<10 YO) yuppie wagon and I stay away from it. The dump truck is a '68 Chev, the tractor is a mid '70s. I like the old stuff~~~

For my air tools and nailers, I use "Marvel Mystery Oil". No, I don't just use it, I swear by it. Also use it for short term lube on the lathes and mills. I use the R&O for the lathe and mill beds for long term idleness. Then there's the non-detergent motor oil that gets widely used as a general lube.

Then there's the models and household goods that get sewing machine oil and specialty lubricants. But they're outside the discussion

.


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## tq60 (Feb 3, 2020)

This is a common and simple question everybody asks the WRONG people...

You are asking about how doing something effects the warranty.

Only one parry can answer that...the warranty provider.

Look up the data sheet for the specified product.

Also look at instruction manual and look for the specification.

Many list a specific procuct (product placement) followed by "or equalivent"

Look for the different product and check the data sheet.

In this case contact an oil dealer as they can provide exact information as well as suggest other products and compatibility topics.

Once you have the other product then contact manufacturer and ask them if your product can be used AND provide the data sheets.

It gives them the option to suggest to others a less expensive product maybe.

If they approve then warranty still good.

If not approved then no warranty...

Easy. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## mksj (Feb 4, 2020)

I have yet to see a machine manufacture at this price level specify an oil of a particular manufacturer as the only one you can  use, so lets get realistic about this as it applies to this level of machinery. These machines are shipped all over the world, I highly doubt that they all have access to Mobil DTE XYZ, or whatever brand. They specify the type and the ISO, they often will give  a particular brand as an example of that era. Many of the "recommended oils" no longer exist.  Unless you read something in the warranty that gives a specific statement that the warranty is VOID  if you use anything else and you need to show proof, etc. then it isn't enforceable, and even then it may depend on the state you live in. You might have very specific specifications if you have a Rolls Royce turbine engine, but a lathe or mill, I don't think so.

It is well understood that there are equivalent oils between brands, and they will have comparable performance. We are talking basic oil here, and nothing fancy, people are lead to believe there is a huge difference between the oils, between most name brand this is not the case. The biggest cause of failure from lack of lubrication is not the oil brand but operator negligence from not changing the oil, wrong quantity, or using something totally out of specifications. You will see lots of people saying motor oil is fine for their lathe, etc. but the biggest issue  with splash lubrication is the wrong viscosity at the designed operating temperature and speed/type of the gears. With splash lubrication, too thin an oil does not have the film thickness, too high a viscosity and the oil will not flow through the channels to the bearings and you get heat generation due to the higher viscosity.

Below is an older oil equivalence chart, if you speak to oil distributors which I have on a number of occasions they will give you comparable products between the different brands.  They are equivalent. The QMT manuals specifically say's "ISO XX, such as Mobil ...", Grizzly lists their own oils or equivalent, I cannot recall any lathe or mill manual that indicates only a particular brand can be used.

So go with the indication/oil type and the ISO grade, the brand is your choice. Would I runout and get K-Mart hydraulic oil in the automotive department, probably not. I have followed these discussions on oils for years, have had discussions with oil techs from companies for specific indications, at this level it is not rocket science. Buy a decent brand oil, change the oil regularly. If you are that unsure about if XYZ oil is OK ask the manufacturer. In a commercial setting where machines operate 24/7 and trying to minimize down time, then slight difference between oils might be a factor based on factual evidence that a difference exsits.


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## matthewsx (Feb 4, 2020)

Fortunately manufacturers cannot require you to use a specific product for maintenance, and ISO 68 is a specification that many products meet. The International Standards Organization (ISO) 
https://www.iso.org/popular-standards.html 
publishes technical standards for everything from information security to medical devices and quality management like ISO 9000. If the manufacturer of your lathe specifies ISO 68 hydraulic oil ANY oil that meets that specification WILL satisfy the lubrication requirements providing the right amount is used and it's changed at the specified intervals. 

As has been pointed out already the gearbox in question is pretty low tech and probably doesn't need everything that this particular oil can provide. I used to build racing kart engines and what oil to use was always a hot topic. The reality was as long as you used an oil designed for the purpose, and used enough of it, and changed it regularly there wasn't any signifigant difference between brands.

Of course, for a definitive answer just ask Precision Matthews. 

But, if they spec ISO 68 you should be able to use whatever you can get from your local supply house that meets the spec.

John


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## Dudemanrod (Feb 4, 2020)

Tractor supply ISO 68 or 46. I use it and i studied it for days and there is no difference it has anti  corrosive additives in it. I worked for Unocal as a process operator and we bought lube oils and gas from all the refineries. And sold it as are own and they did the same.


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## middle.road (Feb 4, 2020)

Hope it is OK that I downloaded those images for future reference.   
*-=-*
We really need a *sticky *on this and Rust Prevention also...
*-=-*
Nice thing around our area is that 5-gal pails show up in the estate sales all the time - dirt cheap.
I've got ISO32, 46, & 68. There will probably still be enough left to end up in my estate sale, though hopefully not.

When I first got my 1440 up and running I stopped by a local Oil distributor to inquire about Tellus or Vactra, and the guy there asked what my application was. He then recommended that I save some $$$ and just get some ISO32 & 68 at Tractor Supply.
I already had some for a skid steer I was using so. . . 

Let's face it, do a search in a browser for 'way oil' and then go over the results. The range of prices is breath-taking.
'Kits' on eBay for Way Lube and Spindle Oil @ $6-12 / PINT! That's ~$80/gal. 
Grizzly even shows up with "South Bend SB1365 - Way Oil for Lathes" @$16 for 12oz. Spec is _AMGA#2 (ISO 68 Equivalent)_
I rather use the monies for the Tool Fund.

Here's how I figured it once I determined I didn't need to spend $30/gal 
I found this somewhere on here or perhaps elsewhere.

*ISO 32 – *
Head Stock Gears
Ball Oilers

*ISO 68 – *
Bed Ways
Lead Screw
Feed Rods




mksj said:


> I have yet to see a machine manufacture at this price level specify an oil of a particular manufacturer as the only one you can  use, so lets get realistic about this as it applies to this level of machinery. These machines are shipped all over the world, I highly doubt that they all have access to Mobil DTE XYZ, or whatever brand. They specify the type and the ISO, they often will give  a particular brand as an example of that era. Many of the "recommended oils" no longer exist.  Unless you read something in the warranty that gives a specific statement that the warranty is VOID  if you use anything else and you need to show proof, etc. then it isn't enforceable, and even then it may depend on the state you live in. You might have very specific specifications if you have a Rolls Royce turbine engine, but a lathe or mill, I don't think so.
> 
> It is well understood that there are equivalent oils between brands, and they will have comparable performance. We are talking basic oil here, and nothing fancy, people are lead to believe there is a huge difference between the oils, between most name brand this is not the case. The biggest cause of failure from lack of lubrication is not the oil brand but operator negligence from not changing the oil, wrong quantity, or using something totally out of specifications. You will see lots of people saying motor oil is fine for their lathe, etc. but the biggest issue  with splash lubrication is the wrong viscosity at the designed operating temperature and speed/type of the gears. With splash lubrication, too thin an oil does not have the film thickness, too high a viscosity and the oil will not flow through the channels to the bearings and you get heat generation due to the higher viscosity.
> 
> ...


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## Cadillac (Feb 4, 2020)

My lathe has a sticker on the gearbox informing of proper oil to use.


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## middle.road (Feb 4, 2020)

Jet calls out for  Mobil DTE Oil Heavy Medium throughout their manual for a GH-1340W/1440W. 
Which again is basically ISO68.

Here's some out of other various manuals. 

Grizzly:


Enco:


YCL-1340:


TurnPro 1440:


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## Dgrose (Feb 5, 2020)

Thanks for all the input.  Glad I joined this forum.


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## Tozguy (Feb 5, 2020)

mksj said:


> I usually install a strong magnet in my oil drain plugs to retain the metal particles, you will be amazed at the amount of metal particles that you will find attached to them


Just wondering where those metal particles are coming from. After the initial break in period oil change, I would not expect a gear box to be producing metal particles if lubed properly.


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## Choiliefan (Feb 5, 2020)

May have missed it but PM doesn't include oil with the machine?
Will you use chainsaw bar oil on the sliding ways?


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## matthewsx (Feb 5, 2020)

Tozguy said:


> Just wondering where those metal particles are coming from. After the initial break in period oil change, I would not expect a gear box to be producing metal particles if lubed properly.


Wear, otherwise mechanical things would last forever. Definitely less after break-in but there will still be wear.
A magnet is a good idea because it takes metal particles out of suspension and reduces additional wear.
John


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## Tozguy (Feb 5, 2020)

Well lubed parts do last a long time. If the lube is not preventing metal surfaces from touching then you get wear.
If a gearbox is producing any kind of metal particles I would be more concerned about preventing them than by collecting them.


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## matthewsx (Feb 5, 2020)

Tozguy said:


> Well lubed parts do last a long time. If the lube is not preventing metal surfaces from touching then you get wear.
> If a gearbox is producing any kind of metal particles I would be more concerned about preventing them than by collecting them.



It would be wonderful if that were possible but all known mechanical systems have wear factors. These are often calculated by design engineers and are used to specify maintenance schedules, also to predict service life of parts. The only way I know of keeping any gearbox from producing metal particles is by not running it. Gears meshing and transmitting power will always wear to some extent, hence the discussion of proper lubricants for minimizing wear. 

In reading your comment it looks like the expectation is that the lubrication film layer will prevent any metal to metal contact. While that is ideal it's really not practical to prevent any contact, thus there will always be wear. I'm definitely not a lubrication engineer, just a guy who's worked on many mechanical systems and hasn't ever seen one that operates without some wear factor. However, here's an article from the interwebs that addresses this very issue.









						The Importance of Lubricant Film Strength
					

Discover why film strength is one of the most critical lubricant properties for protecting a machine’s internal components.




					www.machinerylubrication.com
				




Cheers,

John


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## Tozguy (Feb 5, 2020)

John,
Thanks for the article, it is one of the better ones I have seen for general info.
The article explains that the objective of lubricants is to prevent metal to metal contact and how it is done. It seems to reinforce what I wrote above (?).
I personally have seen gearboxes last an amazingly long time and believe that a properly designed gearbox properly cared for will show insignificant wear. Parts may fatigue and fail but not from a lack of lubrication. This is not to say that machines can last forever, just for a very long time.

I don't disagree that some machines wear more quickly than others. I don't disagree that your gearbox is producing metal particles. It happens as the paragraph on Wear clearly states

*Wear Generation*
In conditions where there is inadequate lubricant film thickness between the metal surfaces,

However my lathe gearboxes do not produce metal particles of any significance and I do believe that it is practical to have adequate lubrication in a hobby lathe.


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## middle.road (Feb 5, 2020)

Stick a magnet down in yours for grins & giggles.
In a well made piece with quality control present the fit and finish should be such that you'll see very little debris.

If you take a look in my gearhead you'll see a bunch of decent looking well made gears, then there's a couple of oddballs that don't look so finely made.
Guess where the bits come from.
I had a bunch of 'fines' when I changed mine out. I'd wager money the oil had never been changed.
Fines will mess with your bearings just as bad as particles.


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## Tozguy (Feb 5, 2020)

When my budget lathe was new I openned up the gearboxes and cleaned them out with a vacuum. There were some scary looking 'particles' in the bottoms. The gears looked all good. I cleaned all three gearboxes, put in fresh oil and ran it for a month. Then reinspected and found everything clean. Did it again after a year. Everything was clean again.
I am confident that I will wear out before the lathe will.


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## mksj (Feb 5, 2020)

A good reason to change your oil regularly in particular the stock oil. This is a picture of my gear head mill at it's first oil change and I doubt that it had more than 100 hours of run time. I subsequently changed the oil to a synthetic and there was a noticeable drop in head temperature (which was previously almost too hot to touch after any prolonged use) and I picked up about 150 RPM of maximum RPM. There are differences between oils even with the same ISO ratings, but a lot comes down to the mechanical design, parts quality, operating points and QC. In some applications like compressors the service life of a synthetic oil can be much longer, but you still to deal with oil contamination so one still needs to consider an interval for changes beyond just running hours. Synthetics would make more sense if you operated a machine constantly, but proably not so for intermittent use.  Machines typically come with fluids/oils, but worth checking as some may leak out in transport.


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## Tozguy (Feb 5, 2020)

Mark, a picture is worth a 1000 words! Thanks.
Was the magnetic plug original equipment or your doing?
Did subsequent magnetic plug readings show as much grunge on the magnet?

Dan, are you still finding 'fines' when changing the oil or were they only present on the first oil change?


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## middle.road (Feb 5, 2020)

Tozguy said:


> Mark, a picture is worth a 1000 words! Thanks.
> Was the magnetic plug original equipment or your doing?
> Did subsequent magnetic plug readings show as much grunge on the magnet?
> 
> Dan, are you still finding 'fines' when changing the oil or were they only present on the first oil change?


hehe, well this is going to be embarrassing to admit, but I haven't changed it since 2014 when I finally got it into my shop.
There's a 'klunk' in 'Low' that I still haven't figured out or repaired.
When I drained it back then I had magnets in the plastic tub and had a bunch of fines like Mark has in his picts.
I've got two or three magnets salvaged from hard drives laying in there currently.
I haven't changed it because, well a.) it doesn't get used all that much, b.) It's got a small leak on the spindle, and c.) I need to tear it down and figure out where the 'klunk' is coming from.
And all that _after_ I scrap and repair the cross slide. So it's on the To-Do list.
If you take a look at the second picture you can see the odd contacting and 'rub-off' of Dykem on the gears in 'Low'.
That's where the 'fines' come from, IMO. While the oil prevents major wear nothing is going to help when it's poorly manufactured or assembled and the clearances aren't as they should be.
Add to that, it's all a splash' system and the upper selector arm relies on splash to lube it.


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## matthewsx (Feb 5, 2020)

Tozguy said:


> John,
> Thanks for the article, it is one of the better ones I have seen for general info.
> The article explains that the objective of lubricants is to prevent metal to metal contact and how it is done. It seems to reinforce what I wrote above (?).
> I personally have seen gearboxes last an amazingly long time and believe that a properly designed gearbox properly cared for will show insignificant wear. Parts may fatigue and fail but not from a lack of lubrication. This is not to say that machines can last forever, just for a very long time.
> ...



My lathe has external gears, it was built at least 50 years before I was born and will probably still be going 50 years after I'm dead.

Adequate lubrication doesn't mean there will be no wear, and as has already been pointed out in this thread most hobby lathes will probably outlast their owners if cared for properly.

The original question here was what oil will work and I think that has been answered. 

If you don't feel the need to put a magnet on your drain plug or sump then don't do it. I suspect if you did and ran your machine for any length of time you would see some metal particles. This wouldn't mean you aren't caring for the machine properly, just that all mechanical systems wear. The rate of wear may be insignificant for your purposes but unless your manufacturer has somehow figured out a way to cheat the laws of physics there will be wear.

That's pretty much all I have to say about it.


Cheers,

John


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## mksj (Feb 6, 2020)

My mill had a magnet in the drain plug, you could see the oil was dark in the sight window when I changed it, and there was a lot more metal particles that weren't caught by the magnet. I do like to capture the oil and look at it with a light and see any sediment and if it is clear or cloudy. Once I put in the synthetic oil in my mill, the oil stayed much clearer visually looking at it through the sight window, the other major difference beyond what I mentioned was much less foaming indicated by less bubbles in the oil. I sold it before I changed the oil again, it was a Chinese BF-30 mill and the quality was less than I would have expected for that manufacturer. I did own a PM-1340GT, changed the oils about once a year, just some very light particles in the oil with the first change which was most likely casting iron dust. I drilled the drain plug center and put in a neodymium magnet (like 8x20 mm), had minimal build up with the second oil change. I will be doing an oil change on my ERL-1340 in a few months and will also a magnetic in it's drain plug.

I feel what is probably significant is that a decent oil have a good additive package such as anti-rust inhibitors and anti-foaming agents, as I indicted in my gear head mill there were a number of measurable difference in performance with a better oil. If you review most US oil spec. sheets for machine applications these additive packages are pretty standard, which brings us pretty much full circle to the initial question that most name brand oils are pretty close in their performance characteristics.


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## matthewsx (Feb 6, 2020)

I like that we have a member who used to work for an oil company that chimed in on this thread and said they all purchase from each other as needed. A specification is just that, any product that meets it should function as required. Are some better? Perhaps. Will it really make a difference in your application? You get to decide that.

Buy a quality oil that meets the spec, change at a regular interval, keep it topped up. Make some chips. That is all....


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## GunsOfNavarone (Mar 9, 2020)

Very informative thread as usual guys! Something touched on here I want to know a little more about..
I purchased some True Tap by CRC..great stuff. Thick, sticks to the work is the best for tapping and for some milling/turning. The problem, it has stained my ways, my vice, my chuck, anything it touches. I'm good about cleaning up after use, but that can be a few hours. I no longer use in on my mill or lathe, just hand tapping. What in God's name does this staining?


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## Tozguy (Mar 10, 2020)

Staining is mentioned in this thread too:








						Whats a good cutting oil?
					

Being a noob to machining and metal working in general, I'd like to ask what a good general purpose cutting oil would be. I was given a gallon of oil in an unmarked bottle when I bought my Atlas lathe(I think the p.o. "liberated" it from bulk from his work). It was a little dark and smelled like...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## Tozguy (Mar 10, 2020)

Guns, does the container have a customer service number on it?


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## GunsOfNavarone (Mar 10, 2020)

@Tozguy i looked at that thread, seems like they just talk about staining of brass & copper. This stuff stains cast iron @ what I’d assume to be tool steel of some sort (Kurt vice, Shars chuck) I’ll look when I get home for a phone number, I know it says nothing about wiping off after use or staining issues.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Mar 10, 2020)

There is a phone number...it does say, at the very bottom to use CRC cleaner after use. Doesn't say why or give warning...
Anyway, works great, will destroy all that you love and leave you a broken man.


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## mksj (Mar 10, 2020)

Have also had some issues with tapping/cutting oil staining the ways, I clean my machines down when done for the day. Some tapping/cutting fluids like Anchor lube tends to be worse than others.  I have found the unpainted surfaces on the lathes to be very reactive to fluids and moisture, so I always try to remember to not only clean them after use but also apply some way oil on these surfaces.

Recently I did my first oil change on my ERL-1340 and since the headstock takes a bit over 2 gallons, I rechecked the information as to the use of hydraulic oil vs. circulating oil/turbine oil. Almost all the oil cross reference charts and indications show an overlap of these two type of oils for use in machine applications, but there are some differences as to additive packages and properties. The Mobil DTE named series (light, medium, heavy..) are considered turbine oils, vs the DTE 20 numbered series which are classified as hydraulic oils (24, 25, 26...), both are indicated for various bearings and light to medium loaded straight cut gears, both have anti-wear hydraulic oil inhibits rust, corrosion and oxidation inhibitors. They have anti-foaming and anti-emulsifying agents, the latter may be a property that might be more different between the two types. Hydraulic systems typically would be exposed to lower moisture exposure as opposed to say steam turbine systems, the latter may be exposed to higher operating speeds. All these oils have high demulsibility which separates the oil from the water, and significant anti-foaming characteristics. Based on the properties, the named series may have better overall characteristics specific to turbine applications and higher levels of water exposure.

Looking over the properties of the two Mobil oils, they are very similar, the DTE 20 series has slightly lower temperature pour points for the same viscosity. The general recommendation I see is that for an application specific oil, use the one specified oil by the manufacturer. This is more critical in industrial settings were optimum performance and oil longevity equates to longer life/productivity. In a machine like a manual lathe both are suitable, regular oil changes are a more critical factor. 






At the end of the day I ended up replacing my headstock oil with ValCool ValLube AW Hydraulic Oil ISO 32 which was ~1/2 the price of the Mobil equivalent. With the amount of use my lathe gets I just didn't see the need to spend additional money otherwise. I had Mobil oil for the gearbox, and since my carriage also has a pump oiler for the ways I use Vacuoline 1409 in it. I did add a magnet to each of my drains. All the oil drained was crystal clear with no evidence of particles with its first oil change.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Mar 10, 2020)

Good God @mksj  !!! I feel like a friggin slob. I should take a picture under the hood of my lathe and post it here. I mean, I keep the ways/compound/working area clean and lubed all the time, but the drip drip tray under the lathe and the gear change are are a mess! I gotta do better....
I guess really think cutting OIL, tapping OIL, gear OIL etc... I never think about hydro-dynamic flux capacitor interactivity er such... 
Everything has very specific purposes, sometimes there is undesirable consequences. i.e engine oil on a cars finish, no biggie, brake fluid on the same finish and big problems. I apologize for somewhat leading this thread off topic, though I think it all comes full circle to the original post. I have to wrap this up and say, it probably does matter...sometimes...depending.


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## middle.road (Mar 11, 2020)

GunsOfNavarone said:


> Good God @mksj  !!! I feel like a friggin slob. I should take a picture under the hood of my lathe and post it here. I mean, I keep the ways/compound/working area clean and lubed all the time, but the drip drip tray under the lathe and the gear change are are a mess! I gotta do better....
> I guess really think cutting OIL, tapping OIL, gear OIL etc... I never think about hydro-dynamic flux capacitor interactivity er such...
> Everything has very specific purposes, sometimes there is undesirable consequences. i.e engine oil on a cars finish, no biggie, brake fluid on the same finish and big problems. I apologize for somewhat leading this thread off topic, though I think it all comes full circle to the original post. I have to wrap this up and say, it probably does matter...sometimes...depending.


You and me both!


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## middle.road (Mar 12, 2020)

I scored some of the 'good' stuff in the pile of goodies that I got from my friend who was moving...




	

		
			
		

		
	
....


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## Dabbler (Mar 12, 2020)

REGARDING HYDRAULIC OIL AND BRASS/BRONZE

I went deep down the rabbit hole last year on this issue.  An argument broke out over this issue somewhere else, and I needed an answer...

Your provider will know if your oil has *sulfur* anti-wear additives.  If it does, then it is not compatible with brass.  The sulfur leaches the bronze, making it porous and brittle.


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## mksj (Mar 12, 2020)

I am not aware of any hydraulic oils that have EP additives that typically contain sulfur, in addition the current generation of EP additives need to be activated with heat to be effective. The issue is often seen when individuals use gear oils such as those used in differentials were there are hypoid type or bevel gears. There are additional issues with the EP additives that they can attach to surfaces, and literally bond so tightly that they can tear the surface off of the substrate. This can be seen with transmission synchros , clutch packs, softer metals, etc. Brass is also much more susceptible to leaching vs. bronze.  See below links and discussion of the copper corrosion strip test. Also note that the test is  performed at 40 degrees C and again at 100 degrees C, the latter to activate the EP additives. Some additional  links below on the subject. It is also important to take this into account when using gear oils in the mills/gearboxes which are subject to higher operating temperatures and often use yellow metals for bearings and rods. As noted above, you can contact the oil company to ask if it is safe to use with yellow metals, I have done this with both Mobil and Amsoil on some of their products.
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28958/ep-additives-effects








						Limitations of Extreme Pressure Additives
					

Chlorine, potassium-borate and sulfur-phosphorus extreme pressure (EP) additives are primarily used for industrial gear lubricants. These additives are temperature-activated and react with metal...




					www.machinerylubrication.com
				











						Lubricant Additives - A Practical Guide
					

A practical overview of oil and lubricant additives without all the chemistry.




					www.machinerylubrication.com


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## bigwave (May 8, 2020)

Dgrose said:


> I am brand new and starting to learn.  I just bought a lathe from Precision Matthews (1440GT) and will be picking it up later this week.  I notice they spec Mobil DTE heavy/medium iso 68 SAE 20 grade oil.  I looked at MSC and  they want $175 for 5 gallons.  I read several other posts on this forum and wanted to know if I can buy other brands that are in the $40-50 dollar range.  Are they basically the same thing or am I making a mistake.  Rural King has harvest King AW6820W for $14 dollars for 2 gallon jug.  Will this do?  Or is it important to buy the stuff for $175  Thanks



You *can* order Mobil Hydraulic Oil in 1-gallon quantities from MSC, Zoro and others.

I have an Emco lathe which spec's DTE25 and VG68 for Guideway -- so that's what I ordered yesterday.  I'm guessing it will be fine but I've not yet dumped it int the headstock.  Also, Lithium high pressure grease is spec'd as "NLGI 2".  I looked up Amsoil as well and you can get their Hydraulic Oil for VG46 in 1 quart quantities for similar spec ($15/Qt direct).  See line items attached for Mobil product from MSC.   About $100 for all three (ouch!)  but I was in a jamb and MSC has a warehouse in Reno so I get it in a day over here in NorCal-- can't let my lathe run without oil, you know..

Good luck.

-Dave


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## bigwave (May 9, 2020)

bigwave said:


> You *can* order Mobil Hydraulic Oil in 1-gallon quantities from MSC, Zoro and others.
> 
> I have an Emco lathe which spec's DTE25 and VG68 for Guideway -- so that's what I ordered yesterday.  I'm guessing it will be fine but I've not yet dumped it int the headstock.  Also, Lithium high pressure grease is spec'd as "NLGI 2".  I looked up Amsoil as well and you can get their Hydraulic Oil for VG46 in 1 quart quantities for similar spec ($15/Qt direct).  See line items attached for Mobil product from MSC.   About $100 for all three (ouch!)  but I was in a jamb and MSC has a warehouse in Reno so I get it in a day over here in NorCal-- can't let my lathe run without oil, you know..
> 
> ...



small update: the above referenced Way Oil is on a web special at MSC right now for $25.99/gal - I missed this when I ordered ..ugh..I guess you have to select the item from the specials page. -- i have no affiliation with MSC, BTW.


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## 7milesup (May 10, 2020)

Thanks for the heads up.  Just ordered a gallon.


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