# My order for the first lathe : Sanity check on my HiTorque 8.5x20 Bench Lathe 7500 order



## Fermic (Oct 16, 2020)

Hi everyone, I hope that's the right section.

I heard there's tariffs increase for the 10th November, so I went out to build for 3rd time my cart from Little Machine Shop and I want get started in hobby machining.
That or PM-1030V which might make me run out of budget ( 3500 $ USD or 4500 $ CAD ), I live in Canada so I can't just place more than one order from USA.



My cart, anything important is missing ? Also, I want my lathe to be metric.

I know there's posts that warn to not downgrade the choice of metal lathe to something smaller in order to meet the budget, so that's what I did go with LMS 8.5x20 lathe above the LMS 7x16 or Grizzly 7x14 for these features that sets it apart from 7x lathes. This lathe should be good for my beginner projects as bored IT student. Also, I don't need DRO right away as I want to learn to work the metal lathe.

Well, I have open mind to any suggestions. Yet, I can't know which the right question to ask.

Thanks


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## addertooth (Oct 17, 2020)

Fermic,
It looks like you are off to a good basic start.
You may want to eventually upgrade the chuck to a larger one.  The 4 inch chuck, using the "inside jaws" will only grip the outer diameter (OD) of an object about 2.5 inches around before you hit the limits on opening the jaws.  I would know, I have this chuck on my 7 X 16 LMS lathe. 

For the moment, your lathe cannot turn a larger item than it's little brother 7 X 16 which has the same 4 inch (100mm) chuck.
You can turn a LONGER item by about 4 inches. LMS does sell a 5 inch chuck, that will mount up with an optional adapter plate. 

If you run your "outside jaws" It will grip the OD of a larger item, but the jaws are stair stepped in the reverse direction, and you have to
allow for clearance with your tool post and tools.

You will want a dial indicator and base, to confirm your part is tightened true in your chuck.  As a minimum a basic dial caliper for measurements, some spare carbide wouldn't hurt.  You will want a "fish" to help you center your cutting tools vertically, and also to check alignments when you are ready to try "single point threading". 

The OXA tool post will accept tools of up to 1/2 inch.  You will find a good selection of tools on various sites which are 12 mm, this makes them thicker than the LMS tools which you ordered (which are 9.5mm thick), and stiffer than the LMS tools too. I have picked up some additional 12 mm tools from eBay and found them to be more rigid than the tools in the "set" which we both bought.

You will likely have a fair number of people who will come forward and suggest you purchase a larger used lathe, this is a common response when one of the smaller lathes are being considered.  If you are new to lathes, and don't know how to evaluate and measure condition of a used lathe, then getting a new one from a reputable source may be your best option.  You may get lucky and find a local Canadian who can help you accurately evaluate the condition of a used lathe.  It takes actual measurements to evaluate a used lathe, that, and testing every feature.  This means the used lathe will need to have electricity to test it. You also need to evaluate what electrical power is available for you.  You don't want to consider a lathe which you cannot reasonably power.


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## Aaron_W (Oct 17, 2020)

I don't have experience with the machines LMS sells, but I am a repeat customer for their other items and have had no issues with any of my purchases. They offer inexpensive but decent quality tooling for hobbyists. I've probably spent close to $1000 with them over the past several years.

An issue with all small machines is user expectations. Small machines are not just the same as big machines but smaller, an 8" lathe (perhaps 200lbs) is not 1/2 the size and capability of a 16" lathe (4000lbs). I think this is a reason a lot of people who become unhappy with small machines, become unhappy with them, they expected more than they can give. Not saying this to scare you off of a little lathe, I have a Sherline 3.5x17" lathe that I quite like, so I do like little machines. Just making sure you are being realistic with your needs. As something to learn with and make small projects that lathe might be just the thing for you. I also have an Enco 9x20 lathe which is similar in size to the one you are looking at, and it is a nice step up in size and quality from the 7x12 lathes.

As far as things you have overlooked, do you have measuring tools? At a bare minimum you will want a decent set of calipers, a dial indicator and a way to hold it. The 1259 (analog) or 1260 (digital) sets are not great but not a bad place to start. I would also add a 6" steel ruler, which is one of those simple, cheap and useful tools easily overlooked.
A dial test indicator and a 0-1" micrometer are not immediately critical but on the short list of good to have. Eventually you will want all of these and more but that should be enough to get a good start. The cheap ones are good enough to start, you can begin replacing them with better quality ones over time.

I will say if you are even thinking you would rather have the PM1022 or 1030, think about that very carefully. For not a whole lot more money the PM lathe is a lot more machine. It is also a lot bigger and heavier if that is a concern. The PM lathes come with a lot of the add ons you are looking at, so the price difference may not be as big as you think.


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## Aaron_W (Oct 17, 2020)

I'm just going to do a quick comparison for you between the two you mentioned.

LMS 8.5x20 $1899, 40" long, 220 lbs, includes 4" chuck, 2 dead centers (QCTP is an added cost)

PM1030 $2499, 52" long, 395lbs, includes 5" 3 jaw, 5" 4 jaw, faceplate, 2 centers, steady rest, follow rest and a QCTP

By the time you add these additional parts to the 8.5x20 you are at the same price as the 1030. Do look into metric though, I'm not sure if you can get the 1030 as an intrinsically metric machine.


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## Fermic (Oct 17, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> I'm just going to do a quick comparison for you between the two you mentioned.
> 
> LMS 8.5x20 $1899, 40" long, 220 lbs, includes 4" chuck, 2 dead centers (QCTP is an added cost)
> 
> ...



Actually, I already asked that question days ago but it seems they can only provide metric versions for PM-1236T or larger.



Aaron_W said:


> A dial test indicator and a 0-1" micrometer are not immediately critical but on the short list of good to have. Eventually you will want all of these and more but that should be enough to get a good start. The cheap ones are good enough to start, you can begin replacing them with better quality ones over time.



I have my 25 mm micrometer, dial indicator, iGaging 6" caliper, but none of dial test indicator or the magnetic base. I'll buy them cheap from somewhere.



Aaron_W said:


> I will say if you are even thinking you would rather have the PM1022 or 1030, think about that very carefully. For not a whole lot more money the PM lathe is a lot more machine. It is also a lot bigger and heavier if that is a concern. The PM lathes come with a lot of the add ons you are looking at, so the price difference may not be as big as you think.



That's true, I wouldn't mind working with these imperial dials if it meant to buy aftermarket parts to replace imperial for metric ones when I have experience in finding these. And yes, this size is very appealing to me. I hope I can pay my taxes on this PM order. My trouble is these lathes are much heavier for me, it has go up one set of stairs in garage, go down long stairs and take one sharp turn to left then roll to my workshop that I just claimed with robust table. I'll try get a quote from PM for 1030.

Thanks for these replies, I'll begin ask some quote from PM for the PM-1030.


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## matthewsx (Oct 17, 2020)

I don't know how things are where  you live but recently we've seen quite a few machines coming available all over the US. Used, with added tooling often makes a much better bargain if you are patient.

Also, what about your IT training is boring to you?

John


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## Fermic (Oct 17, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> I don't know how things are where  you live but recently we've seen quite a few machines coming available all over the US. Used, with added tooling often makes a much better bargain if you are patient.



Yes but going to USA isn't feasible and Quebec has closed their borders again.



matthewsx said:


> Also, what about your IT training is boring to you?



That would be creating websites, it is hard for me.


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## higgite (Oct 17, 2020)

Fermic said:


> View attachment 340822
> 
> My cart, anything important is missing ?


Way oil
Cutting fluid
A ton of other stuff that you will discover as you become more experienced and widen your horizon of projects. All part of the fun.



Fermic said:


> Also, I want my lathe to be metric.


Is the LMS 7500 lathe available with metric dials? The description says inch dials. I have the predecessor to the 7500 (the 3540) and it has inch dials. I think it's a very good hobby lathe, by the way. And LMS is great to deal with.

Tom


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## addertooth (Oct 17, 2020)

higgite said:


> Way oil
> Cutting fluid
> A ton of other stuff that you will discover as you become more experienced and widen your horizon of projects. All part of the fun.
> 
> ...



One of the add on purchases in his list is the conversion kit to metric for the cross feed and compound.  I had to look it up on the LMS site to make sure.


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## addertooth (Oct 17, 2020)

Do keep in mind the 1236T requires 220v A.C. to operate.  It does not run on 120v.


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## higgite (Oct 17, 2020)

addertooth said:


> One of the add on purchases in his list is the conversion kit to metric for the cross feed and compound.  I had to look it up on the LMS site to make sure.


Sorry, I missed that. Thanks. I know I shouldn't try to think before my second cup of coffee, but it's hard to remember that before I've had my second cup of coffee.

Tom


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## addertooth (Oct 17, 2020)

Higgite,
I awoke this morning at 3:42 (I have a big project today, and it made my sleep restless).  Coffee cup number 4 was in my hand, which gave me an unreasonable advantage. I suspect the project will tucker me out, and it may make me sleep in to 6:00 tomorrow morning.


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## Fermic (Oct 17, 2020)

higgite said:


> A ton of other stuff that you will discover as you become more experienced and widen your horizon of projects. All part of the fun.



Thanks



higgite said:


> Is the LMS 7500 lathe available with metric dials? The description says inch dials. I have the predecessor to the 7500 (the 3540) and it has inch dials. I think it's a very good hobby lathe, by the way. And LMS is great to deal with.



Already thought of that, it was shown in my cart in first post as imperial to metric conversation kit.


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## matthewsx (Oct 17, 2020)

Fermic said:


> Yes but going to USA isn't feasible and Quebec has closed their borders again.
> 
> 
> 
> That would be creating websites, it is hard for me.



I wasn't suggesting traveling to the US, rather wondering if your local market might come up with something good if you are patient. 

Good luck with your schooling, it will eventually lead to enough income to pursue whatever hobbies you like. I might suggest network security if you want a challenge that will pay off handsomely.


Cheers,

JOhn


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## Fermic (Oct 17, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> I wasn't suggesting traveling to the US, rather wondering if your local market might come up with something good if you are patient.



I worry I may get cursed to witness a 'better' used metal lathe go in the local market AFTER i buy this LMS 750 or PM-1030.


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## Aaron_W (Oct 17, 2020)

For an indicator holder Noga makes good ones, and they aren't super expensive. You can get them for $50-100 depending on which size and options you choose.


You mentioned the space you have, but something else to think about is how many more moves are you going to have? It sounds like you are maybe a college student? I don't see it mentioned much but what lathe to buy really should consider the stage in your life you are at. If you are settled, in a house where you will probably be until the end of your days then going through a difficult move in with a big lathe, possibly paying riggers to set it up is worthwhile, because it is one and done. If you are young with many moves ahead of you, and shop space variable, something small and easy to move (multiple times) is definitely a plus.




Fermic said:


> I worry I may get cursed to witness a 'better' used metal lathe go in the local market AFTER i buy this LMS 750 or PM-1030.



As it always has been, and always shall be.  

A big plus for used, is with the budget you have you could be looking at 12x36 or 13x40 lathes, or spending a lot less for smaller lathes and having more money left over to buy tooling. This of course assumes you can evaluate a used lathe, so you don't buy a lemon, you pay for new because you get what you want and don't have to deal with some other persons mistakes.


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## matthewsx (Oct 17, 2020)

No matter what patience will be your friend here. Take some time to really be sure what your needs are and if possible visit with someone in the hobby or trade. 

Being in Canada I doubt it will make sense to purchase from the US, between the exchange rate, the tariffs we have and the duties you'll have to pay to get it into Canada you're probably going to spend more than you need to. 

This looks like the same machine PM offers 








						LATHE 10IN. X22IN. METAL WITH DIGITAL READOUT CX706
					

Busy Bee Tools is Canada's largest Woodworking & Metalworking retailer. Find power tools, woodworking tools & metalworking tools at factory direct prices.




					www.busybeetools.com
				



(yes, PM has great customer service and is a forum sponsor) but at this level of machine you're not likely notice too much difference. Plus, they're both backordered anyway so you probably have to wait whether you want to or not.  

I had good service from these guys north of the border









						jrwoodca Precision Tools | eBay Stores
					

Please add me to your list of favourite sellers and come again. I offer all types of top quality precision machinery,measuring equipment and tooling.We specialize in hard to find items.Thank you



					www.ebay.ca
				




There's a phone number on this website









						JSR & FATHER MACHINERY & SUPPLIES - Perth, Ontario
					

Review for JSR & FATHER MACHINERY & SUPPLIES: JSR & FATHER MACHINERY & SUPPLIES is located at RR 6 STN MAIN BOX 1666 BOX 1666 1666 DRUMMOND CONC 7, Perth...



					www.salespider.com
				




So you might want to give them a call and see if they have any tips for your search.

Trust me, taking your time to get this right is definitely worth it.


John


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## Fermic (Oct 17, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> For an indicator holder Noga makes good ones, and they aren't super expensive. You can get them for $50-100 depending on which size and options you choose.


Good idea, I know of a place who sells that in Canada ( kbctools.ca )



Aaron_W said:


> You mentioned the space you have, but something else to think about is how many more moves are you going to have? It sounds like you are maybe a college student?


My workshop is in basement with plenty room to put decent 12x36, as moving one in I'll figure out how move it myself without getting killed or get some help with our family.



matthewsx said:


> Being in Canada I doubt it will make sense to purchase from the US, between the exchange rate, the tariffs we have and the duties you'll have to pay to get it into Canada you're probably going to spend more than you need to.
> 
> This looks like the same machine PM offers
> 
> ...


It could work for me even it costs bit less but has unknown features to let me know if it is fully imperial or metric, nonetheless if I must, I'll work around these limitations of this lathe. But there been rumours of poor after-sale service, I hope it does not apply to Ottawa location.
Source of my worries : https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/busy-bee-tools-canada.31507/post-529340

Lastly, someone did say he regretted getting 10x22 when he could had 10x30 as said in the forum.



matthewsx said:


> https://www.ebay.ca/str/jrwoodcaprecisiontools



This link is broken, here's the good link https://www.ebay.ca/str/jrwoodcaprecisiontools


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