# Taper adapter questions?



## bcall2043 (Sep 26, 2013)

I have an old South Bend 14 ½ inch single tumbler lathe that I am collecting parts and materials for to get it operational. I have an adapter that the outside diameter fits the spindle but have not found anything that fits into the adapter. Looks like a Morse taper adapter sleeve with tang, see attached photos. The apparent mfg. name on the adapter is Collis and it appears to have a possible part number of 61394. The part is stamped 9B-4M and the outside does appear to be same as a #4M only longer. A regular 4m taper sleeve also fits the lathe spindle but does not extend past the end of the spindle as it should. I have read somewhere that South Bend used the same taper as Morse but with different length and gage diameters. 




My questions are what is the “9B” taper and is this possibly a South Bend special? 

Benny
The Orphanage Never Closes


----------



## Bill C. (Sep 26, 2013)

bcall2043 said:


> I have an old South Bend 14 ½ inch single tumbler lathe that I am collecting parts and materials for to get it operational. I have an adapter that the outside diameter fits the spindle but have not found anything that fits into the adapter. Looks like a Morse taper adapter sleeve with tang, see attached photos. The apparent mfg. name on the adapter is Collis and it appears to have a possible part number of 61394. The part is stamped 9B-4M and the outside does appear to be same as a #4M only longer. A regular 4m taper sleeve also fits the lathe spindle but does not extend past the end of the spindle as it should. I have read somewhere that South Bend used the same taper as Morse but with different length and gage diameters.
> View attachment 61272
> 
> View attachment 61274
> ...



It looks like a tapered drill sleeve. I think I see a slot for a drift pin. Some of the larger drill bits have tapered shanks.


----------



## Halligan142 (Sep 26, 2013)

14.5" Southbends had a proprietary headstock taper.  You need a spindle sleeve Like a heavy 10.  There were two spindle types if I remember correctly for your lathe.  A large hole and a small hole.  The large hole can take a heavy 10 spindle adaptor. 

I just looked up the sizes:

Small hole:
.602 Taper per Foot   1.325 Large diameter  1.125 Small diameter

Large hole:
.602 TPF   1.629 Large diameter  1.406 Small diameter <---same as 10L


----------



## LJP (Sep 26, 2013)

Would those spindle taper dimensions hold true for a 13" SB as well?
Thanks, Larry


----------



## Old Iron (Sep 26, 2013)

Benny

If it will fit I have a extra spindle out of a 13" large bore with the pulleys and the bearings intact.  I've been meaning to check on it but you know how that go's.

Paul


----------



## Halligan142 (Sep 26, 2013)

According to the specs 13" is the same taper as large bore 14.5".  The entire length of the spindle is different though with the 13 coming in at 21 1/16 and the 14.5 coming in at 24 29/64"


----------



## dirty tools (Sep 26, 2013)

you might find this use full
http://www.drill-hq.com/2012/04/morse-taper-dimensions-chart/


----------



## bcall2043 (Sep 27, 2013)

Halligan142 said:


> 14.5" Southbends had a proprietary headstock taper. You need a spindle sleeve Like a heavy 10. There were two spindle types if I remember correctly for your lathe. A large hole and a small hole. The large hole can take a heavy 10 spindle adaptor.
> 
> I just looked up the sizes:
> 
> ...



Thanks Halligan142, my lathe is a small bore. I had assumed that it was a #4 Morse taper as a #4 seems to fit it but seats too deep into the spindle. 



Old Iron said:


> Benny
> 
> If it will fit I have a extra spindle out of a 13" large bore with the pulleys and the bearings intact. I've been meaning to check on it but you know how that go's.
> Paul



Thanks for the thought Paul. A large bore would be nice but Halligan142’s post below seems to throw a monkey wrench in that idea. However I will check into that a little deeper. I am in no big rush, the 10 inch lathe is working and I am still missing a lever for the 14 ½ inch and need to make or purchase a replacement gear for it also.

Benny
The Orphanage Never Closes


----------



## bcall2043 (Sep 27, 2013)

*Re: Taper adapter questions? - Guess I keep looking*

I went by forum member Philco’s shop this morning and borrowed a standard #4 Morse dead center and it seems to fit my lathe spindle like the sleeve that I have but the center falls short on projecting from the spindle (see photo). 


I measured the spindle in my 14 ½ inch South Bend and it clearly matches the dimensions that Halligan142 posted earlier for the smaller size 14 1/2 lathe spindle. That seems to mean that my lathe bore taper is .602 inch which matches a #3 Morse taper and not the .62326 inch taper of a #4 Morse. Of course a #3 Morse taper just slides right through the spindle since it is only .938 inch at the gage line/big end. I would have thought that .021 inch different in taper would have shown up as a "bad fit". The apparent “good fit” may not be so accurate so I guess I keep looking for the right adapter. 

Thanks all for the help and Phil, thanks for the loan of the center and I will get it back to you early next week.

Benny
The Orphanage Never Closes


----------



## 4GSR (Sep 27, 2013)

bcall2043 said:


> .... a possible part number of 61394. The part is stamped 9B-4M and the outside does appear to be same as a #4M only longer.
> View attachment 61272
> 
> View attachment 61274
> ...



Benny,

The designation "9B-4M" indicates that it has a No. 4 Morse taper on the outside and a No. 9 Brown & Sharpe taper on the ID.  That is the reason for it being longer.  These were common back before the 1960's.


----------



## dbassing (Oct 2, 2013)

Hello all,
    I am interested in this thread because I have a South Bend 13" I just purchased and am just getting familiar with it and finding what I am missing etc. There seems to be some confusion, at least for me, in regards to the internal taper of the spindle on these lathes. The specs indicate the spindle taper to be a #3 Morse taper. My lathe has a 1 3/8" bore through the spindle and the large end of the internal taper measures 1.625". This seems a bit big for a #3 Morse Taper and I have read that there is a sleeve adapter that reduces the South Bend taper to accept a #3 MT. Am I correct in this and if so where does one look for this adapter sleeve?
Thanks,
David


----------

