# Faster Than the Speed of Light?



## RJSakowski (Mar 9, 2022)

Why is it every time the price of crude goes up, the price of gasoline and diesel increases virtually immediately?  The fuel in the pipelines and storage tanks has probably been invoiced weeks or months before.  Is this price gouging or profiteering?  Asking for a friend.


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## FOMOGO (Mar 9, 2022)

Oil execs: We support Ukraine, but we support profit, and gouging even more. Mike


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## BGHansen (Mar 9, 2022)

RJSakowski said:


> Why is it every time the price of crude goes up, the price of gasoline and diesel increases virtually immediately?  The fuel in the pipelines and storage tanks has probably been invoiced weeks or months before.  Is this price gouging or profiteering?  Asking for a friend.


Not adding anything but the usual "excuse" is that they raise prices to curtail demand since the supply is flakey.  They don't want to have a rush on the supply and run out of gas. . .  Remember around 5-8 years ago when we had a particularly cold winter and propane went up to something like $5 a gallon?  We'd pre-bought at $1.60 and weren't affected other than we were limited to 50% fills on our tank.  The "logic" back then was "we only made enough propane for a normal winter.  People are buying more so we're going to raise prices and ration so everybody gets to have something in their tank".  Yeah, the logic is not logical.  It's not like I have a dozen 500-gallon tanks and am hording propane so no one else can buy it.  Purely a case of the companies who have us by the short and curlies taking advantage of a situation to pad their pockets.

Bruce


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## Cadillac (Mar 9, 2022)

I agree I assumed that a gas station could not raise prices till they got a fresh delivery of fuel at the going rate. Every time I drive past a gas station these days it’s gone up at least 20c. The fact that it’s so volital when I started driving back in 94 gas was 96c. It would move maybe 2c extreme might have been a nickel and that was over weeks or months.
 Now it can be minutes and raise 50-75 cents. Then two days later it might drop a penny or two. Then a day later it’ll raise backup another 20c or so. It’s just RIDICULOUS !!! 
     And then come to find out the oil companies are making record profits when their feeding us lies that this is why there’s a shortage or blah blah lies coming out their mouths. 
 I don’t know how to change it but all I can say is it’s killing the middle class well everybody. What I do know is between inflation, the rise of fuel which the companies will adjust their prices accordingly,buisnesses raising prices because minimum wage went up, then they are raising their prices because they wanna get their cut. Its not gonna be sustainable !! 
 I need a RAISE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Navy Chief (Mar 9, 2022)

Part of it is the logic that they have to pay to refill the tanks/pipelines at the new higher cost. Yes they are making more money on what is in the tank but it is going to leave their pocket on the next refill...

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## Larry$ (Mar 9, 2022)

Look at it from both directions. When they sell their existing stocks, they have to replace it with higher $ stock. But when prices drop they can't sell their more expensive stock at the higher price they paid because someone else will be selling the cheaper stuff right away.  Commodity pricing is less a function of the makers than the commodity market. You can buy & sell oil or beans you don't have. It's called speculating! Risky! Big bucks can be made or lost in a very short time. You can do it, anyone can. 10 to 1 leverage is common. Buy 1000 bu. of beans for $10/bu. but only have to pay $1000 + some fees with a promise to pay off the rest by a certain time. If the price goes up by $1, you sell and make a $1000 profit on a $1000 investment, less a little in fees. But if the price goes down by $1, They sell you out and you've lost your total investment. Of course there is more to it than this but you get the idea.  

The game gets even more interesting when there is a big run up in prices. People jump in to make the big bucks. More contracts are sold than commodities to fill them. If the price dips a little there will be mass selling to keep from losing either their paper gains or their total investment. It can turn into a snowball. If there are more sellers than buyers at a given price the price will drop until it evens out. That puts more pressure on those that got in at a cheaper price. They then have to sell to keep from losing their a$$.  

Limits were put in place after the 1920s market crash. But the game can still be played. Not my cup of tea but you may want to see if you can make the big bucks. There are some catches not covered here. Inflation will raise prices but not value. The government will collect taxes on any of you're $ gains even though you haven't gained any true value. The government will use those cheap $s to pay back the more valuable $s they had "barrowed." Inflation is a barrower's friend!


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## RJSakowski (Mar 9, 2022)

Navy Chief said:


> Part of it is the logic that they have to pay to refill the tanks/pipelines at the new higher cost. Yes they are making more money on what is in the tank but it is going to leave their pocket on the next refill...
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


Then raise the prices when they next refill.


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## Gnpenning (Mar 9, 2022)

Don't forget everything else is goes up due to  shipping cost, fertilizer is fuel related, etc.


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## Provincial (Mar 9, 2022)

My sister-in-law and her husband went to dinner across the street from a gas station.  By the time they came back out, the prices had risen $.20!

Not only do the prices go up one existing inventory during a price rise, but the pump prices stay high long after the crude price drops.  They get you coming and going.


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## Navy Chief (Mar 9, 2022)

RJSakowski said:


> Then raise the prices when they next refill.


Then people will be upset if oil prices go down and their price goes up anyways, they can't win. 

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## pdentrem (Mar 9, 2022)

Same here in Canada. We have one of the three largest reservoirs in the world and we cannot get it to market.


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## savarin (Mar 9, 2022)

The creed of greed is alive and well and getting greedier.


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## graham-xrf (Mar 10, 2022)

It's the usual. If there is a cause for it to go up, it does so overnight. When the cause is gone (spot price drops), the outlets delay, and delay, and spin it out as long as they can.

We notice the game is more intense in UK than in Europe, and the tax fraction is huge. Large transport trucks have extra tanks fitted, and fuel up in Calais.  They do the trips into UK, and will only fill minimal to get back to Folkestone, if they have to.


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## finsruskw (Mar 10, 2022)

Look for fuel surcharges on truck shipments to go through the roof as well soon!

So much for truck camping this year as well.
I have/had several trips planned.


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## Shotgun (Mar 10, 2022)

If Ford came out and said they'd never build another F-150, you could expect the prices to jump immediately.  Is it greed?  Yep.  Are you greedy, too?  Yep.  We all are.  It's mine, and if you want it you'll pay my price.  It doesn't matter what I paid for it.  That is none of your business.  This one is mine, and I can price it any way I want.  Now, if a guy across the street is giving F-150's away, I'll have to drop my price if I want to get get any money (it's your money, after all, and what you do with it is your business).  The only reason the gas stations can charge so much is that there is good reason to believe that the resource is about to be very restricted, and you won't have the alternative to get it cheaper elsewhere.  Why should they give you their gas at a low price today if they can expect it to be worth double that tomorrow?

This is not academic.  I have a Malaguti Yesterday scooter that my wife wants to keep because she thinks it will be a collector's item.  They aren't making anymore (haven't for 20yrs), and they were a hot item at one time.  So if you want one in ten years, you'll have to meet her price.  It's a free market, and the price will be set by how much people really want the limited resource.  One alternative is to let an omniscient bureaucrat decide the price.  History has clearly demonstrated that bureaucrats of the omniscient type are in exceedingly short supply.  Another is to enable more suppliers (have someone else make trucks, scooters or gasoline), but that goes against the agenda of some unnamed powers that want us all to buy electric vehicles.

Why are gas stations vilified for behaving the exact same way every one of us would at a yard sale or auction?


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## Provincial (Mar 10, 2022)

It isn't the gas station that most people vilify.  They understand that the station must buy the fuel and pass the cost on to the customer.  People are starting to wake up to the fact that government has more control of the price than they thought.  

For many people, the rate of price increase is more disruptive than the amount of increase.  This is because they would have been able to reorder their budget (and lifestyle) if they had been given more time, and advance notice.  An example would be selling their house and moving closer to their place of work.  

One of the triggers of the Great Recession of 2008/09 was the rapid increase of fuel prices.  Many people who had long commutes to work had to choose between keeping their job or walking away from their mortgage.  Usually, the job was more important.  This triggered the collapse of the housing market and the financial house of cards that Wall Street had built.

We'll get to see if things are any different this time.


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## Gnpenning (Mar 10, 2022)

The one product that stations on all 4 corners sell for the same price.


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## RJSakowski (Mar 10, 2022)

Local fuel prices should be based on distributor pricing, not on what a barrel of crude sitting in a tanker is going for.  If distributor prices go up and my local gas station raises prices as a result, I have no problem with that.  My beef is with the distributors.


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## Cadillac (Mar 10, 2022)

Gnpenning said:


> The one product that stations on all 4 corners sell for the same price.


Most. There is two gas stations kind of away from the major traffic ways. They are the only two gas stations within my area that offer a cash price of currently 3.99 when card price is 4.59. Everywhere else in a 10 mile radius have it at 4.69. Then go to city limits 5.10. CRAZY 
 It took a touch over a year for the CLOWN to double what it was. What a circus


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## FOMOGO (Mar 18, 2022)

And, the barrel price of crude has been dropping.


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