# Another 10F Restoration-- Toader



## toader (Mar 13, 2014)

Well guys I guess I'll make a restoration thread, too. 

MY STORY: I am a high-school senior getting ready for college in the fall. I want to study Mechanical Engineering. I consider myself fortunate to spend my whole life around equipment and machinery. I always spent time working on things with my dad (and still do!) When I was 14, I took on my first big project- restoring a 1972 Ski Doo snowmobile; if you are interested in this you can see it on YouTube UN: greentree328. 

One thing I always thought was incredible was machining. Needless to say, I really wanted a lathe. After months of research, I learned that a decent sized Atlas lathe would suit my needs: they are affordable and have enough capabilities that I won't outgrow it anytime soon.

I prowled on Craigslist for a few weeks until a 10F came up for sale about an hour from my house. I drove down to take a look and ended up coming home with it. The guy wanted $600 but I talked him down to $400. 

It came with: two cast iron legs, 3 Jaw, some HSS tooling, and a steady rest. It is in pretty good shape, I have had a fun time working on it after school. I've found a lot of missing parts on Ebay. 

So, since I have no real knowledge of machining or the equipment, I figured the best way to get familiar with it is to tear it down and restore it. I would like to share my build with you guys, too. Pics will be coming. 

I started the restoration working on the countershaft. I like doing one major component at a time so I do not get overwhelmed. I would like to thank Dennis for sending me new felt rings FREE of charge! 

Thanks for reading; I'm sure I'll have tons of questions for you guys!

Toader

- - - Updated - - -


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## samthedog (Mar 14, 2014)

Good luck. Having repaired / renovated a few machines I have a few tips that may help:


Always keep the workspace clean
Use a magnet to keep all your small parts in one place
Don't strip anything back to bare metal unless you plan on painting in the next 24 hours
If you clean oil up with a rag, don't scrunch it up and throw it in the bin, lay it out flat
If something isn't unscrewing or going into place, don't force it
WD40 is not a good lubricant at all - it is a water displacer

Paul.


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## RandyM (Mar 14, 2014)

Great machine, keep the posts coming. This will be a good thread to watch. Thank you for posting.


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## stevecmo (Mar 14, 2014)

Toader,

My hats off to you.  We don't get many new members you age.  Sounds like you're adept at machinery and your lathe will certainly help going forward.  Looks like you found a good lathe there.  Feel free to ask questions - there are lots of knowledgeable folks here with lots of experience.

Steve


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## schor (Mar 14, 2014)

I'll be watching this thread, keep the pics and even videos coming. You'll get lots of help from the people on this site.

Do you have a color in mind yet? Personally I like using a caliper or wheel paint that stands up very well to cutting fluids, but you don't get too many color choices.


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## toader (Mar 14, 2014)

schor said:


> I'll be watching this thread, keep the pics and even videos coming. You'll get lots of help from the people on this site.
> 
> Do you have a color in mind yet? Personally I like using a caliper or wheel paint that stands up very well to cutting fluids, but you don't get too many color choices.



I am going with a dark hammered gray paint. I think it will be a nice simple paint scheme. Keeping the orignal Atlas badges red/polished.


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## iron man (Mar 14, 2014)

You will like the hammertone paint that is what I did with mine originally I had it painted the correct smooth gray paint and cleared it but even with the best of care it would chip frequently. Since paint can always be changed it does not hurt its originality. One piece of advice even though it will seem hard to the touch let the paint dry for about 4 weeks you will not believe how much harder it will get in passing time. And the nice thing about it over regular paint you can do touch ups and you cant tell where you did, you can brush it on and that even looks nicer than the spray you get no brush marks at all really amazing paint. here is mine.. Ray

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php?t=21221


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## toader (Mar 15, 2014)

Thanks for the painting tips.


I'm off to the hardware store to pick up a battery charger. Time to make an electrolysis bath!


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## toader (Mar 15, 2014)

Did some work today...







- - - Updated - - -

Did some work today...


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## iron man (Mar 16, 2014)

What did you use for your electrolysis solution?


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## toader (Mar 16, 2014)

iron man said:


> What did you use for your electrolysis solution?



I used 1 tablespoon of washing soda per gallon of water. Run at 2 amp continuous.

Do you have a better solution in mind? This is my first time doing this.


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## iron man (Mar 17, 2014)

No not at all I just found it interesting. Ray


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## samthedog (Mar 17, 2014)

If you want to strip pain and de-rust then you can use caustic soda a your electrolyte instead of washing soda. Just do so in a well ventilated area and DO NOT do this on aluminium as it will produce a great deal of hydrogen and severely corrode the aluminium.

Paul.


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## toader (Mar 19, 2014)

Well a few more days of work... I've done some painting/cleaning. I also removed the spindle as I plan to clean and paint that casting next. 

This machine was built September 10, 1946.


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## wa5cab (Mar 20, 2014)

Toader,

What is the serial number?  It should be either on the nameplate or on top of the front way near the right end.  Also the model number (alpha-numeric, something like TH-54)?

Robert D.


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## toader (Mar 20, 2014)

wa5cab said:


> Toader,
> 
> What is the serial number?  It should be either on the nameplate or on top of the front way near the right end.  Also the model number (alpha-numeric, something like TH-54)?
> 
> Robert D.



I'll have to check on the serial but it is a TH42


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## toader (Apr 7, 2014)

Well I have a bit of an update but a few holes in terms of pictures. 

I built a new countertop out of two pieces of butcher block. I used the cast iron legs the machine came with. I really like the height. 

*SOME QUESTIONS THAT HAVE COME UP:
*1. What accessories might I consider in the future? I have a quick change tool post that I will install with carbide tooling. 
2. Can it be adapted to have a quick change gear box?
3. The drill chuck sometimes spins in the tailstock- what is the solution to this problem? 
4. Where can I get some good machinable round bar? What material is good for learning? What is a good diameter to practice on? Online dealers seem expensive not to mention the shipping costs. 

Here are some pictures! I am really happy with the way it is turning out!


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## Smudgemo (Apr 8, 2014)

toader said:


> *SOME QUESTIONS THAT HAVE COME UP:
> *1. What accessories might I consider in the future? I have a quick change tool post that I will install with carbide tooling.
> 2. Can it be adapted to have a quick change gear box?
> 3. The drill chuck sometimes spins in the tailstock- what is the solution to this problem?
> 4. Where can I get some good machinable round bar? What material is good for learning? What is a good diameter to practice on? Online dealers seem expensive not to mention the shipping costs.



Harold Hall's "Metal Lathe for Home Machinists" is a good book with great tips and projects to get your lathe up and running properly once you've got it initially working.  The projects begin simply enough and move into much more involved items.  The bonus being they are tools that you'll keep and use forever.  His British English and metric measurements are sometimes a little difficult to follow, but it's still good stuff.

Guys say this all the time, but I'd also say to skip the carbide tooling for some HSS blanks if you've got a grinder.  Tom's Techniques is a great resource and will help get you going with grinding.  It really isn't tough at all, and it's a lot cheaper than carbide.  Note that carbide will chip easily and brazed-on types will be useless once that happens. 

Any scrap yards nearby?  I buy aluminum and steel by the pound at mine.  Anything aluminum up to a couple of inches would be a fine place to start as it turns easier than steel (especially steel of an unknown type, plus you can turn the chips back in for more money than steel or save it for your eventual backyard foundry.)  

I wouldn't worry about a QCGB just yet.  Maybe if you can retro one, but I have one on my Atlas I mostly use the slowest feed setting, and sometimes two or three of the thread cutting choices.  

Best
-Ryan


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## wa5cab (Apr 9, 2014)

Toader,

You should also acquire a copy of the Atlas Manual of Lathe Operations (AKA MOLO).  They were printed on average ever 1 to 4 years from 1937 until 1988.  To go with your 10F you should look for one dated 1957 or earlier and only with the Atlas logo on the front cover (not Craftsman).  The reasons are that after 1957 they are mostly applicable to the 1/2" bed 12" and that Chapter 7 on Threading is different between the Atlas and Craftsman versions.  Also, there were apparently 4 versions of the 1937 edition, none identifiable by the front cover (they all say Atlas).  I have three versions and although I haven't compared the rest of each book page by page, Chapter 7 is different in each.  Chapter 7 in what I'll call Version 4 covers the Sears Master Craftsman 12" (101.07403 and 101.07402).  V3 covers the 10F.  V2 has no pages in Chapter 7 (Atlas printed one and maybe two separate Threading Supplements - I have the 10F one and suspect that there must have been a Sears one).  V1 is only an assumption but if it existed it covered the 10D and earlier (that used the 96T threading gears).  And if the 10D version existed, there may have been an early Sears version, too.  But I'm still looking for either or both.  If you intend to look for a 10" QCGB, restrict your search to roughly 1948 to 1957 with an Atlas front cover.

On the QCGB question, the 10" and 12" are not interchangable.  Most of the internal parts are the same but the main housing castings are different and the gear guards are different, plus some other parts.  As Ryan wrote, if you don't do much threading, they aren't as useful as if you do.  However, they are certainly more convenient if you want to take faster roughing cuts and then go to the finest feed for the finish cut(s).

On accessories, if you don't have a milling machine, the milling attachment is good to have, although it will only handle small parts generally.  Get a steady rest and probably a follow rest.  Get a carriage stop and probably a cross feed stop.  Most of the rest are irreplacable if you need them and no use if you don't.  For example, if you never rebuild DC motors, there is no point in having a mica undercutter.  If you never make more than one of anything, there isn't much use in having collets and either of the collet attachments.  I happen to have all but about two of the attachments built for the 12" but I've been slowly collecting them for the past nearly 35 years.  

On the issue of HSS or carbide cutters, I've used almost nothing but carbide since I got my lathe.  But it's possible I started off that way because all of the commercial machine shops that I did a lot of business with used them and I followed suit.  However, you can get just as good results from either and it's certainly true that in a non-production environment, HSS is cheaper in dollar cost.

On the spinning drill chuck, all that I can suggest is to degrease the tailstock ram bore and chuck arbor.  And always seat the arbor home with a "thunk".  If the drill is large enough (or with 2MT drills), I also hit the tip with an oak block two or three times just to be sure.

Don't forget that you were going to send me the serial number.

Robert D.


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## toader (Jun 15, 2014)

Well! 

Sorry I haven't been around. The last month or so of school was pretty rigorous. I dealt with final essays, AP exams, graduation, and family. 

I've gotten some more time to play with the lathe. Cosmetically, it is finished. I have painted and reassembled everything. 

Unfortunately, I have run into a bit of an issue. Runout. When I put pieces in the chuck there is a pretty bad wobble. I also can see that the spindle dead center is wobbling, too. I don't have an exact measurement because I'm not sure if I'm using my dial indicator correctly.

How should I go about this?


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## JimDawson (Jun 15, 2014)

Dead center wobble is not a good sign, at first glance, it sounds like you may have a bent spindle.

As far as the indicator goes, make sure the base is solidly anchored, and the setup is solid and move the plunger into position on the center, point the plunger at the spindle center.  Rotate the spindle by hand and read the indicator.  The difference between the min and max is the runout.

Make sure that the spindle bore is clean, and burr free.  Same with the center as this will throw your reading off.


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## wa5cab (Jun 16, 2014)

Toader,

First, did you by any chance check the chuck or dead center runout before you took the headstock apart?

Assuming no, first think that I would do is to pull the spindle again and make certain that both bearing cups are uniformly seated in the headstock journals.  If one is cocked, that would cause problems.  Then I would fully seat the chuck end cone on the spindle and reinstall the spindle with nothing but the bearings and the spacer and 32T gear on the left end.  Check the runout on the register behind the spindle nose threads and in the middle of the spindle and mark the high spots.  Assuming that the register runout is significant (greater than 0.001"), if the high spots are both on the same side or if you have two high and two low spots, you probably have a bearing problem.  If they are on opposite sides, you probably have a bent spindle.  Bent spindles are common on the Craftsman AA machines.  But if yours is truly bent, it will be the first case I ever heard of on a 10" Atlas.



On an unrelated subject, several posts down this thread, I wrote briefly about the 1955 and earlier Atlas Manual of Lathe Operation.  Since then, I've acquired copies of what, after a year and a half of looking, I'm moderately confident are all of the only 6 actual versions up through 1955.  The first four all have only 1937 on the copyright page (back of the title page).  

The first version (I have two examples from different sources, one a repro and one a PDF) has a complete Chapter 7 (Threading) and covers the Atlas 10D and earlier.  If you ignore the lack of tumbler gears on the threading chart, it would also cover the Craftsman 101.07400. 101.07401 and equivalent babbit bearing models.  These are all of the 10" and 12" that shipped with two 96T Change Gears.  All of the photos in the manual are of 10D or earlier.  The 6" is not mentioned.

The second has no pages bound into Chapter 7 but originally shipped with one of the other of two separate Threading supplements.  One covered the Atlas 10F and the other covered the Sears Master Craftsman 12" 101.07402, 101.07403 and equivalent babbit bearing models.  Outside of the supplement, most photos were changed to the 10F.  I have seen recent evidence that this version was still being sold at least as late as July 1943.

The third and fourth are the same as the second except that the supplements are bound in and the binding changed from wire to plastic.  Both say Atlas on the front cover and neither mention the 6".

The fifth and sixth are the 16th edition of 1955.  One still has a black cover but says Craftsman on it instead of Atlas.  The other has a gray cover and says Atlas.  Chapter 7 covers either Craftsman 12" and 6" or Atlas 10" and 6" respectively, plus the appropriate QCGB models.  And these two versions are the first to show print history on the copyright page.  The number of reprint years shown is 17, not 15.  So I'm not sure how they came up with "16th Edition".

Robert D.

Robert D.


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## toader (Jun 18, 2014)

Thank you for the help, everyone.

I'll remove the spindle today and check everything out.


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## toader (Jun 18, 2014)

Well good news! I noticed that inside the spindle had been distorted by a hammer. I filed inside the spindle and reduced the dead center runout significantly! 

The part of the spindle next to the bearing cover (the larger diameter directly next to the spindle threads) has practically zero runout. 

I determined that the spindle is ok and that I have a bad 3 jaw chuck, it looks to be original. 


MY BIG QUESTION:

What should I buy for a chuck and from where? I currently have a 5" 

3 jaw or 4 jaw? I'll start with one for now. Keep in mind I am still learning so maybe I should stick with the 3.


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## samthedog (Jun 19, 2014)

3 or 4 jaw depends on the stock you will be using and the work you want to do. With a 4 jaw chuck, you can machine off center but this causes extra strain on the headstock bearings due to the unbalanced weight. Also, the 4 jaw is useful on square stock but takes longer to set up on round stock.

If you plan on just doing quick machining (mainly reduction and no off center machining) on bar stock that is round and are using a lathe that has small headstock bearings or a light spindle, just stick to a 3 jaw chuck.

Paul.


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## toader (Jul 1, 2014)

What do you guys think about this for a new 3 JAW? Shars, 6" with a backplate. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-6-3-J...9?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item461054da5b


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## rwm (Dec 28, 2017)

I have that chuck. Mine has a runout of .003- .004". Not great. Otherwise it is fine for general machining and a good starter chuck if you are on a budget. Later you may want a Bison. Mine has a runout of .001-.002. Seems to have a much more accurate scroll.
Robert


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