# SOUTH BEND REBUILD MANUAL



## doco (Mar 8, 2013)

I am embarking upon the rebuild of a South Bend 16/24 lathe and have seen this manual mentioned several times and am wondering where one may be obtained?

[video=youtube;cFNE_1pZ9yw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFNE_1pZ9yw[/video]

TIA


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## Taz (Mar 8, 2013)

doco said:


> I am embarking upon the rebuild of a South Bend 16/24 lathe and have seen this manual mentioned several times and am wondering where one may be obtained?
> 
> [video=youtube;cFNE_1pZ9yw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFNE_1pZ9yw[/video]
> 
> TIA



Try here http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Rebuild...223?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256153498f. That book covers 40s to 80s industrial SB lathes (10 and up).  He also sells gasket/felt kits, but I don't think he sells a rebuild kit for a 16.  I have seen the capillary oilers for the 16, you may be able to combine another kit with the capillary oilers to complete, I would check with the seller. I'm rebuilding a 9a and purchased the kit, good seller, high quality stuff.

Please put up some pictures too!  I'd love to see a big SB restoration go down!


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## doco (Mar 8, 2013)

Taz, first heard of the manual on your thread and have been following it as well. I will be posting here as well as keeping up with the build on my YouTube channel.

Thanks...


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## Taz (Mar 8, 2013)

doco said:


> Taz, first heard of the manual on your thread and have been following it as well. I will be posting here as well as keeping up with the build on my YouTube channel.
> 
> Thanks...



I hadn't watched the link yet, holy smokes brother that thing is huge!!  Just a little tooling came with it though?  HA!  Bummer about the lead screw, hard to make a new one without one.  Nice find, looking forward to following your channel and watching the progress unfold.


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## rowbare (Mar 8, 2013)

Wow that thing is a beast. Looks like you got a lot of good tooling with it. 

Looking forward to seeing pics of your rebuild process.

bob


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## furpo (Mar 8, 2013)

Great find!
How long is it?
I’m jealous  my 16/24 is only 120” long


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## doco (Mar 8, 2013)

furpo said:


> Great find!
> How long is it?
> I’m jealous  my 16/24 is only 120” long



13' overall but the bed is 144". I haven't measured between centers yet. It is a beast. Got to rearrange things in the shop before I can even get it in there. The door is 11' - I wonder how well 13' will squeeze in :headscratch:


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 9, 2013)

Great find and a really good candidate for a restore. I too would like to see a restore thread on a really big south bend. Please post pics here or your you tube links. Wow, that things big! Makes my 10L look like a tinker toy, LOL.


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## MikeH (Mar 9, 2013)

I bought that manual from that seller. I am currently using it in rebuilding my 13" South Bend.
It is a big help. It does however, have a few errors. I think they used the heavy 10 to write the book. Some of what they tell you to do is not possible on a 13".


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 9, 2013)

MikeH said:


> I bought that manual from that seller. I am currently using it in rebuilding my 13" South Bend.
> It is a big help. It does however, have a few errors. I think they used the heavy 10 to write the book. Some of what they tell you to do is not possible on a 13".



Yeah, the book is kinda general for all the south bends listed, it does cover some of the differences between all the lathes, but not all. It is imo a very useful book just the same, and I have never seen another like it specifically for south bends. There is a lot of good tips and advice on how to disassemble a south bend without boogering everything up. Plenty off pictures so that even if yours is not exactly like the one pictured you can figure it out. Most of the south bends are the same just scaled up in size.


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## doco (Mar 10, 2013)

MikeH said:


> I bought that manual from that seller. I am currently using it in rebuilding my 13" South Bend.
> It is a big help. It does however, have a few errors. I think they used the heavy 10 to write the book. Some of what they tell you to do is not possible on a 13".



I purchased one from eBay yesterday. Spent some of today trying to get the chuck off of the headstock. She's a no move...:wrench:


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 10, 2013)

doco said:


> I purchased one from eBay yesterday. Spent some of today trying to get the chuck off of the headstock. She's a no move...:wrench:


I have heard of guys having success removing stuck chucks by engaging the back gears and clamping a pipe about 2' to 3' long in the chuck so it hangs of the side of the lathe. They then hang a bucket on the pipe and fill it with weight and leave it hang, apply penetrating oil of choice and check daily, when the bucket hits the ground, it's loose. After a couple of days if it still hasn't broken loose and after applying penetrate a few times a day, sometimes a little heat from a propane torch will help, but do not over heat! Like most things with working on a old south bend, patience is the key.


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## doco (Mar 10, 2013)

Sounds like a plan Woody. I'll hang that 14" 4Jaw off of my 6' pry bar that ought to do it. :thumbsup:


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## rafe (Mar 10, 2013)

doco said:


> I purchased one from eBay yesterday. Spent some of today trying to get the chuck off of the headstock. She's a no move...:wrench:



Be patient. Soak it down , soak it down again ....may take days....get a good strap wrench and put a hex bar in the chuck put a wrench and bar on that while holding the spindle pulley with the strap wrench and bar give it all you have got...soak it down again and try again the next day ....third day mine came loose....don't jeopardize your back-gears for lack of patience ....I used the strap and wrench with 4 foot bars it will come loose ...you can leave weight on the bar that will help


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 10, 2013)

rafe said:


> Be patient. Soak it down , soak it down again ....may take days....get a good strap wrench and put a hex bar in the chuck put a wrench and bar on that while holding the spindle pulley with the strap wrench and bar give it all you have got...soak it down again and try again the next day ....third day mine came loose....don't jeopardize your back-gears for lack of patience ....I used the strap and wrench with 4 foot bars it will come loose ...you can leave weight on the bar that will help


I agree and forgot to mention, DO NOT PULL ON THE CHUCK HARD WITH THE BACK GEARS ENGAGED. Sorry for not mentioning that.


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## doco (Mar 10, 2013)

> I agree and forgot to mention, DO NOT PULL ON THE CHUCK HARD WITH THE BACK GEARS ENGAGED. Sorry for not mentioning that.



OK. I put a 1.250" x 9' pry bar in the chuck and pulled - before I read your post. So, now that we have cause, what is the effect?  :help:

Also, looking forward a bit, I will be wanting to make a few gears for the beast. Whcih brings me to the question of how to determine the gear pitch and which involute gear cutter(s) to buy?


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 10, 2013)

doco said:


> OK. I put a 1.250" x 9' pry bar in the chuck and pulled - before I read your post. So, now that we have cause, what is the effect?  :help:
> 
> Also, looking forward a bit, I will be wanting to make a few gears for the beast. Whcih brings me to the question of how to determine the gear pitch and which involute gear cutter(s) to buy?



Remember what I advised about patience and letting the penetrating oil work and do it's thing, apply 2 or 3 times a day until it works. The reason we don't advise pulling on a long bar with the back gear engaged is because you can break teeth off the gears. It might take a few days for the oil to work and the weight of the bucket to do it's job. But one day you may go to check it and the bucket will be on the ground and you will know it worked with out damaging anything.


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## doco (Mar 10, 2013)

There is nothing broken. I have applied the 9' bar with the 14" 4Jaw hung on it and plenty of penetrant. We'll see what shakes out over the next few days while I wait for the rebuild manual...

Thanks


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## Splat (Mar 10, 2013)

*This* is probably the safest way to remove a stuck chuck. I got it from another machinist board and it worked like a charm for me.  No broken back gear teeth, no heat, or hammering anything. Good luck with it. You'll get it.


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## SE18 (Mar 11, 2013)

rafe said:


> Be patient. Soak it down , soak it down again ....may take days....get a good strap wrench and put a hex bar in the chuck put a wrench and bar on that while holding the spindle pulley with the strap wrench and bar give it all you have got...soak it down again and try again the next day ....third day mine came loose....don't jeopardize your back-gears for lack of patience ....I used the strap and wrench with 4 foot bars it will come loose ...you can leave weight on the bar that will help



I normally engage back gears and lightly turn the chuck. If it takes more effort, I use the strap wrench. I hadn't thought about penetrating oil. That's a good idea. If I recalll, mixing acetone and something else (transmission fluid) is as good as anything.

That neat clamp and the heating idea are good as well.

What do you do with a stuck dog plate? I had this happen and had a heck of a time removing it. I think it got stuck b/c I was doing heavy interrupted cuts.

Wish SB lathes didn't use screw on headstock. That and non-hardened ways are the 2 weaknesses of an old South Bend. Other than that, no complaints, except maybe the compound angle setting should have been in the front vice the back, along with the removal set screws.

Dave


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## Splat (Mar 11, 2013)

SE18 said:


> Wish SB lathes didn't use screw on headstock. That and non-hardened ways are the 2 weaknesses of an old South Bend. Other than that, no complaints, except maybe the compound angle setting should have been in the front vice the back, along with the removal set screws.Dave



I forget who but there was some lathe company who used shaft collars to help prevent the chuck from spinning off when in reverse. It supposedly works very well. Here's a pic to illustrate what I'm talking about. I forget where I got the pic from.


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## SE18 (Mar 11, 2013)

pretty neat. I bet that collar also decreases the chances of a stuck chuck as well, since it holds it in place.


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## doco (Mar 14, 2013)

> Wish SB lathes didn't use screw on headstock. That and non-hardened ways are the 2 weaknesses of an old South Bend. Other than that, no complaints, except maybe the compound angle setting should have been in the front vice the back, along with the removal set screws.



You could special order an LOO mount. My other SB 16" has that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZrT_pePdwE&list=UUfYG7Rx1YyS1YIK4Q3Gli_Q&index=89 is a video of mine when I was looking for a bit of run out.


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## doco (Mar 14, 2013)

Hooked a come along on the end of a bar in the chuck. Applying penetrant to the front and back. No move yet.


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 15, 2013)

Have you tried heat with a propane torch yet? It might be just what is needed to break the bond. Try not to heat the spindle, just the backing plate of the chuck around the spindle. If it doesn't break loose apply penetrant as it cools, it will get sucked in as it cools.


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## doco (Mar 15, 2013)

I haven't applied heat yet. If necessary I will get to that once I get it into the shop.


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## Splat (Mar 15, 2013)

Doco, have you tried my method that I linked to?  I strongly advise you to try it next. *Here's* the link again.


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## doco (Mar 15, 2013)

Splat said:


> Doco, have you tried my method that I linked to?  I strongly advise you to try it next. *Here's* the link again.



I have not tried anything yet but constant pressure and copious amounts of penetrant. I mentioned using that method in my last video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PXg5C_Repo. One of the comments on that video was to NOT try that process. I will deal with it more specifically once I get the machine moved into the shop where I can apply some heat. I think that will do the trick. We'll see.


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## Splat (Mar 15, 2013)

doco said:


> I have not tried anything yet but constant pressure and copious amounts of penetrant. I mentioned using that method in my last video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PXg5C_Repo. One of the comments on that video was to NOT try that process. I will deal with it more specifically once I get the machine moved into the shop where I can apply some heat. I think that will do the trick. We'll see.



I just looked for that comment on your video and didn't see it. The only thing close was about whacking it with a hammer, which I certainly do not recommend. Have you looked at the link I gave?  From everything I've read, most of it from "old timers", the way I did it is among the safest ways to release a stuck chuck since you're not hammering anything, applying heat, etc...  It's your lathe. Just trying to help.


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## doco (Mar 15, 2013)

Splat said:


> I just looked for that comment on your video and didn't see it. The only thing close was about whacking it with a hammer, which I certainly do not recommend. Have you looked at the link I gave?  From everything I've read, most of it from "old timers", the way I did it is among the safest ways to release a stuck chuck since you're not hammering anything, applying heat, etc...  It's your lathe. Just trying to help.




This is the comment in it's entirety



> hey Donald, I am almost done with my 1904 Hendey lathe. Take it from me, who took it from others- start with the spindle. You won't have anything without a good spindle. *Please don't crank on the gear end of it*. Get the chuck off, belt off, and gear off then loosen all the lash eliminators. Give it as much play as you can. Then heat it. It will move. I used diesel, was what I had in the bucket! I thought this one was running when purchased??


Emphasis mine.


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## doco (Mar 15, 2013)

Splat said:


> I just looked for that comment on your video and didn't see it. The only thing close was about whacking it with a hammer, which I certainly do not recommend. Have you looked at the link I gave?  From everything I've read, most of it from "old timers", the way I did it is among the safest ways to release a stuck chuck since you're not hammering anything, applying heat, etc...  It's your lathe. Just trying to help.



For sure not going to use a hammer. One of my favorite old sayings is "don't force it - get a bigger hammer!" Not the correct application here for sure. She'll break loose more extended periods of pressure and penetrant with some heat on the backing plate and she'll come loose.


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## Splat (Mar 15, 2013)

doco said:


> For sure not going to use a hammer. One of my favorite old sayings is "don't force it - get a bigger hammer!" Not the correct application here for sure. She'll break loose more extended periods of pressure and penetrant with some heat on the backing plate and she'll come loose.



Good luck however you do it. Let us know what happens.


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