# Pm 25 Mv



## tweinke (Dec 27, 2015)

I am looking to by a mill to replace the one on my 3 in 1 Shoptask machine. getting tired of finding ways to get my work at a height that works and the teardown/set up every time I switch from lathe to milling.  The replacement cant break the bank. So what I am wondering is the real world performance working with steel etc. Simple impressions from real users would do to help me form an opinion of whether I need to reassess the budget. The 727m is also a runner up but I do not know if the speed  range is good enough. One small note to all is I have little machining experience. Most of my work so far has been small parts for garden tractors and the like. I do not have room for anything Bridgeport size so lets not go there, LOL.


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## T Bredehoft (Dec 28, 2015)

I am pleased with my PM25, I've had it since June.  In industry I had worked with various machines with DRO (digital read out) so I ordered a two axis (X and Y) unit with mine. The quill has a readout as standard, and the head is not used in machining so it doesn't need a readout.  Expect it to  equal your 3 in 1 or even exceed it in amount of work, heaviness of cut.  But it's not a Bridgeport. I have mine mounted on a counter top (38"), the work surface of the table is 44 1/2 inches. I find it ideal (I'm about 5 10).  The variable speed control and belt drive is ideal, you can't hear the machine running in the next room. The largest work I've done on mine was to mill 17" flats on a piece of 7/8 bar stock. That was a lot of cranking and before I built an X drive. 

I would encourage you to get the best machine you can afford, I did, would have liked to have a bigger, more versatile, more powerful, CNC machine, but the PM25 does everything I ask it to.


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## joshua43214 (Dec 28, 2015)

I had one before I upgraded it to a PM450G.
It was a really great little mill.
Keep in mind this is a fairly light weight machine, but it will take decent cuts for it's size and will leave a pretty decent finish as well.
Mine had the stand (which was very low for my 6' 6" frame). I sat on a stool while I used it. It is just about the perfect size to sit in front of and machine.
I would not worry about the speed range. I never used the high speed pulley on it.


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## lpeedin (Dec 28, 2015)

The only reservation that I had when I bought my 727 was what I initially perceived as a limited speed range.  What I have found since I got it is that the majority of the time I only use the 320, 600, and 1700 speeds.  The first two have been the speeds I use the most when milling steel, especially the 320.  That speed has been a great speed to keep the end mills from overheating since I don't have a coolant system and only use cutting oil.  The 1700 has been great for milling aluminum.  I read it all the time that speed is your friend with aluminum and most people talk about very high spindle speeds.  But, this is not a CNC machine.  The 1700 gives a mirror finish on aluminum with a properly sharp end mill.   I have found the low 115 rpm speed to be good for power tapping, especially in aluminum and low carbon steel.  I simply use my drill chuck and keep a finger on the stop button.  Having the forward and reverse spindle power makes this a very easy task to complete.  

What I really like about the 727 is the weight of the machine relative to it's size.  At approx. 500 pounds, It is not a machine that you will move frequently.  But, with my homemade wooden gantry crane on casters, I can move it by myself without issue.   I had initially planned to order a 25MV, but, after stumbling onto the 727, I felt it was a much better option for the types of work I saw myself doing.  I have been mainly working on tooling myself up by making my own accessories.  I have made the usuals: additional tool holders for the lathe, fly cutters, ball turner, dual-dial indicator tramming aid, etc..  I am looking forward to moving into some gunsmithing type work this coming year and I wanted a machine that I believe could handle a bit of steel cutting a little bit better.


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## tweinke (Dec 28, 2015)

Good info so far, any insight is good. How is d.o.c in steel with various size end mills? Also what is the biggest end mill that works " comfortably "  Real world info is more valuable to me then printed specs, not that I doubt Matts listed specs. I would hate to spend a bunch of money then be disappointed so spend once and use all opinions and observations that can be collected to make the choice. I talked to a machinist  friend  tonight of course after I showed  him what I was thinking of getting was told only way to go would be a used  Bridgeport or the like. All fine except no room in the garage, and don't really want a worn out mill to rebuild. That makes your  opinions extremely  valuable.


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## lpeedin (Dec 29, 2015)

When I was making the tool holders for the lathe, I was cutting mild steel with a 3/8" m42 cobalt roughing end mill at a depth of .250" and a full cut width without issue.  I also have used a 1/2" rougher with similar results.  I haven't don't any milling with any larger end mills of any significance.  I have been wanting a 2" face mill to try out but haven't as of yet.


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## tweinke (Dec 29, 2015)

Looks like it has more capacity then my Shoptask , when using large end mills that big or big d.o.c there is a lot of flex leading to curves and chatter. Half inch end mills are the biggest I've tried, but quarter inch can be a struggle at much more then .050. It's  also a bit odd with x and y being rotated in regard to the orientation of the table. I am really considering the PM 25 based on expected budget. I will need to see if I can sell my Harley that sits more then ridden  in the corner. Budget could go up a bit if that goes well.


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## brav65 (Dec 29, 2015)

3dshooter80 said:


> When I was making the tool holders for the lathe, I was cutting mild steel with a 3/8" m42 cobalt roughing end mill at a depth of .250" and a full cut width without issue.  I also have used a 1/2" rougher with similar results.  I haven't don't any milling with any larger end mills of any significance.  I have been wanting a 2" face mill to try out but haven't as of yet.




I have a PM-25 and have had similar results with 1/2" end mills both 4 flute and roughing endmills.  I started with inexpensive Asian tooling, but soon started using US made higher quality tools and would not go back.  I am new to machining metal, so I am not in a hurry when working on a project.  I have gotten great results with a 2" face mill as well.  The most important thing with the face mill it making sure that you are trammed well.  I have achieved accuracy beyond what I thought I was capable.  The mill is easy to work on and there are a large number of simple upgrades that are fun to plan and execute if you want to add some additional features.


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## tweinke (Dec 30, 2015)

Was just out in the garage, looking at what large items can be liquidated and pretty much came up with none,LOL. looking more and more like a small foot print will be in my best interest. I am pretty sure from what has been mentioned here that the PM-25 is at least a step up from what I have. In the back of my mind little voices tell me that with some care a belt drive mill will be easier to maintain then gears due to obsolete parts. but then after hearing about PM being good to work with I do not think I have a lot to worry about. Also next time I build a garage I will remember to find the appropriate size then triple it.


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## tweinke (Jan 6, 2016)

must only be two guys with PM25MV mills on here, lol  seriously though I really appreciate the input. On to rounding up cash, The CFO was onboard when I started this thread now not so much so I got some figuring to do. I think next time I'm allowed to pull the trigger, well lets say stand back cuz there will be no warning.


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## tweinke (Mar 7, 2016)

Any more input from any PM-25MV owners?


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## wrmiller (Mar 8, 2016)

Just recently sold mine, but had it for about a year and a half. I did mostly small stuff related to pistolsmithing and smaller projects, but once I did push the machine a bit hard. I had a 3/8" carbide rougher hogging 1" thick cold rolled steel. DOC was 1" and full width. VERY slow feed, and lots of lube but the mill handled it. I would NOT recommend a steady diet of things like that, but the mill can handle it occasionally if set up properly. Even though I now have a larger mill I think I'm going to regret letting my PM25 go. It's a good little mill.


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## tcarrington (Mar 8, 2016)

I have a PM-25 for about a year now and really like it. I got the DRO with it. Ditto on not using the high range pulley. I imagine there are cases where you might want to, but I don't think you have to. It is a good trade off for capacity, size, cost, and other factors. I use other mills at work but I will like how the PM-25 does on the jobs that will fit in its envelope.


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## tweinke (Mar 10, 2016)

Any one willing to post a couple of pictures with something included to give a size reference. Never have been able to see a PM25 or a G704 in person. A pic of a 727 would be cool too.


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## T Bredehoft (Mar 10, 2016)

Here's a PM25 with a box of Kleenex on the table along side a 4" vise. Note my new 'speedy crank' on the vise.







Sorry 'bout the mess, sometimes I get carried away with a job and forget to clean up.  After all, I'm the next one to use it.


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## tweinke (Mar 12, 2016)

Looks like my shop! I call it organized chaos. For me its too little time to many projects. the Kleenex box and vise are good size references. I like the power feed, any details you can share? Sorry to be a pain about mill size etc. I want to make the best purchase I can one time.


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