# California Air Tools Compressor?



## Alan H. (Dec 8, 2017)

I have a large capacity, stationary 80 gallon tank air compressor in my shop.  While it is a hoss, It is terribly loud and requires hearing protection when it runs. 

I have been toying with the idea of getting a small, *quiet* compressor for the air needs for my mill and lathe (power drawbar, Fogbuster, air nozzle, . . . ).    I ran across the California Air Tools compressors and took note. 

I am considering one that is light and portable with aluminum hot dog tank(s).  They do make some larger tank models with steel tanks but they make several models with aluminum tanks and this is the one I've had my eye on.   It is 1 hp, 4 cfm at 40 psig, 60 db, 4.6 gallon, 44 lbs.  (Model 4610ALFC)

Any folks out there that have experience with them?


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## Bob Korves (Dec 8, 2017)

They are truly and amazingly quiet, and also not cheap.  60db is about a normal conversation.
http://www.noisehelp.com/noise-level-chart.html


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## ddickey (Dec 8, 2017)

I ended up getting one of those. Only run the mister and blow off machines. Fine for that.


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## Doubleeboy (Dec 8, 2017)

I have the vertical model.  I bought it because they are quiet.  It will run the tool changer on mill plus mister so I am happy.   They do run hot if run near continiously, in those situations I help cool it with a simple clamp on 5" fan meant for desk use in an office, seems to work fine.  The model is 10020C, 2 hp, runs on a 20 amp circuit no problems.


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## Alan H. (Dec 8, 2017)

ddickey said:


> I ended up getting one of those. Only run the mister and blow off machines. Fine for that.


They assemble these in San Diego.  I think the aluminum tanks are made in Mexico.  

Any idea where the pumps are made?   Here's an interesting youtube of a few of the details of their pump.  I believe the pump shown is what they call their "industrial" pump.   I have tried to call them today without any luck but have sent them an inquiry via webmail on their website.


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## ddickey (Dec 8, 2017)

Correction, I have the 4610AC. Not sure the difference but the 4610ALFC puts out more SCFM. For over 40% more in price I didn't think it was worth it for what I was planning on using it for. You can buy larger tanks too.
My motor is made in China. Pump and motor look to be a single unit. So far I'm happy wid it. Seems to be of decent quality.


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## Firestopper (Dec 8, 2017)

Have a buddy that has one exactly like the one pictured, he likes it and uses it for smaller air demand.


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## .LMS. (Dec 8, 2017)

I have a small vertical tank model, and it is real quiet.


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## Dabbler (Dec 9, 2017)

I have been considering buying one.  I'd be really interested in your experiences before investing $$$.  The claim is very quiet.  Is this claim true?


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## ddickey (Dec 9, 2017)

Oh yeah. You won't be disappointed about that.


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## Bob Korves (Dec 9, 2017)

It would be interesting to tee a quiet compressor into existing piping for a loud, high volume, high pressure system, and use ball valves to decide which one to use at the moment.  That way you can have the best of both worlds, without plumbing redundancy.


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## .LMS. (Dec 9, 2017)

Dabbler said:


> I have been considering buying one.  I'd be really interested in your experiences before investing $$$.  The claim is very quiet.  Is this claim true?



Yea it is when you compare it against other compressors.   You can actually talk over it (you need to be louder of course). 

This is the one I have:

https://www.amazon.com/California-Air-Tools-10020C-Compressor/dp/B0188XBTLY/

It replaced a porter cable pancake, so it gives you an idea of what it is used for (trim guns, inflating tires, blowing out debris from nooks and crannies).

No issues yet, other than a couple smashed up non-critical parts in the box, but some folks that have them say they experienced the same thing. They were very responsive to my request for new parts - no questions asked, and got them in a couple days.

I'd do it again.


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## Alan H. (Dec 9, 2017)

.LMS. said:


> Yea it is when you compare it against other compressors.   You can actually talk over it (you need to be louder of course).
> 
> This is the one I have:
> 
> ...


Can you ID the origin of the pump and motor on your model?

EDIT: they sell two different pumps, a 3000 hour and a 4000 hour pump.  I am betting both are sourced from Asia but trying to confirm that.


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## Alan H. (Dec 9, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> It would be interesting to tee a quiet compressor into existing piping for a loud, high volume, high pressure system, and use ball valves to decide which one to use at the moment.  That way you can have the best of both worlds, without plumbing redundancy.


That is very possible.  In my case I have an 80 gallon receiver on my shop system and an air header system.  A smaller compressor like the ones in this thread could use the larger receiver or I could isolate it.


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## .LMS. (Dec 9, 2017)

Alan H said:


> Can you ID the origin of the pump and motor on your model?
> 
> EDIT: they sell two different pumps, a 3000 hour and a 4000 hour pump.  I am betting both are sourced from Asia but trying to confirm that.



I'll try to get out there today and look for that.  It'll give me an excuse to pull it away from the wall to drain it


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## ddickey (Dec 9, 2017)

.LMS. said:


> I'll try to get out there today and look for that.  It'll give me an excuse to pull it away from the wall to drain it


That model does not have the industrial series motor. Will be same as mine. China.


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## .LMS. (Dec 9, 2017)

ddickey said:


> That model does not have the industrial series motor. Will be same as mine. China.



Guess I won't be draining my tank today....


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## Alan H. (Dec 9, 2017)

ddickey said:


> That model does not have the industrial series motor. Will be same as mine. China.


I am betting their industrial motor/pumps are Chinese as well.


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## ddickey (Dec 9, 2017)

I would think if they weren't it would be advertised all over there literature.


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## mikey (Dec 9, 2017)

I was looking for a small, quiet compressor about 2 years ago and went through the same research, Alan. I actually went to Woodcraft to see the one you're looking at and yes, it is pretty quiet. The guy gave me a good deal on it so I bought it. When I got it home and plugged it in, it tripped my 20 amp breaker at startup. Did this several times so I took it back.

After more homework, I bought a Makita MAC700. Pretty much the same output but 2HP and it is an oiled design. While not as quiet as the CAT one, it is way quieter than my Craftsman Industrial 2HP compressor and way, way quieter than my Ingersoll Rand. I am done with oiless compressors - they run hot, eat a lot of juice and have more run time in use. While I am no expert on these contraptions, I think I'll be staying with Makita compressors from here on out. Not nearly as quiet (80dB vs 60dB for the CAT) but quiet enough and puts out enough air for what I use it for - general shop air and wood working. It has an aluminum tank so no rust issues.

I just let my contractor use it for nail guns, staplers and such and he was really impressed with it. He had two guys using guns at the same time and the compressor had no problem keeping up.


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## Dabbler (Dec 9, 2017)

The CAT compressor is quite expensive here, the smallest one is north of 500$, that's why I'm being so careful about the purchase.  I have 30 amp circuits and can also wire a special one, so it might work for me...


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## mikey (Dec 9, 2017)

I bet it would work for you, Dabbler. I didn't mean to get down on the CAT compressor. It is very quiet, there is no denying that.


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## Alan H. (Dec 9, 2017)

Dabbler said:


> The CAT compressor is quite expensive here, the smallest one is north of 500$, that's why I'm being so careful about the purchase.  I have 30 amp circuits and can also wire a special one, so it might work for me...


Dabbler, curious where you are and why they are so expensive??


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## Dabbler (Dec 9, 2017)

I'm in Alberta.  The only distributor within 500 miles is Home Depot.  Their price for the 2HP model with the 4 gal tank is $398, but they charge an additional $150 for the special order handling, making it $548.  The manager claimed ordering it online was cheaper, but wouldn't commit to what the final price might be. 

The other ones on their online catalog are not actually available here, except for the model 10020C at $700.  they reserve the right to limit what they will sell where...  frustrating.


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## Cheeseking (Dec 9, 2017)

Guys I have the "GMC" 4610 version of the CAT your looking at.  Yes It is unbelievably quiet compressor compared to any other I have been around.  No problems in 2-1/2 years.   It has 2 outlet quick connects so I connect one to my larger 25gal Crapsman.  The only issue I found with this setup is the thing gets really hot if the run intervals are too long.  I thought possibly pre-filling the larger tank using its own compressor then shut it off and have the quiet one top it off but its still going to run awhile to  recover the larger tank volume.  no free lunch I suppose.   I hardly ever use the larger one anymore since its so bone jarring and loud.   I will buy another one in a heartbeat when this one wears out.


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## Terrywerm (Dec 9, 2017)

I also have a large vertical compressor out in the garage. It is great for changing and filling tires, running an impact or other air tools, but it is big time overkill for the little bit of air that I need in my basement shop. I purchased the 3/4 HP CAT compressor through Home Depot two years ago and absolutely love it.  My wife never hears it run, it's so quiet, so she's happy. No problems with it since I got it.


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## Alan H. (Dec 9, 2017)

Dabbler said:


> I'm in Alberta.  The only distributor within 500 miles is Home Depot.  Their price for the 2HP model with the 4 gal tank is $398, but they charge an additional $150 for the special order handling, making it $548.  The manager claimed ordering it online was cheaper, but wouldn't commit to what the final price might be.
> 
> The other ones on their online catalog are not actually available here, except for the model 10020C at $700.  they reserve the right to limit what they will sell where...  frustrating.


Yeap, those prices are way too sporty!  Can you not buy via Amazon in Alberta?


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## dlane (Dec 9, 2017)

What makes them quieter , insulation, thicker castings, thicker tank , a muffler?.


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## kd4gij (Dec 9, 2017)

What type is your 80gal. compressor?  If it is a belt drive piston compressor it is probably running at max rpm to get max cfm. I put a smaller pulley on my motor to slow it down and it is much quitter than it was . No problems talking to someone standing next to it.


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## Dabbler (Dec 10, 2017)

All I found on amazon.ca were 1HP models.  Because we are in Canada, we don't  qualify for free shipping on amazon.com.  It's something that we've learned to live with in Canada.  People mistakenly think Canadians are most characteristic for our apologies...  Really it's our complacency that defines us! (or at least a bunch of us)


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## Alan H. (Dec 10, 2017)

dlane said:


> What makes them quieter , insulation, thicker castings, thicker tank , a muffler?.


Here is a brief description by an outfit that sells compressors (drive type, pump type, isolation).  I think they left out "intake noise" suppression.  My son did some work using a Helmholtz suppressor on a single cylinder pump and it was quite remarkable what he was able to achieve.  



kd4gij said:


> What type is your 80gal. compressor?  If it is a belt drive piston compressor it is probably running at max rpm to get max cfm. I put a bigger pulley on my motor to slow it down and it is much quitter than it was . No problems talking to someone standing next to it.


I have a Kobalt that came with an Atlas Kopco two cylinder cast iron pump on it and yes, it is spinning fast.  Some of the services I use it on are a bead blast cabinet, impact air tools, and a plasma cutter, all of which make the capacity it produces quite handy.   One thing that could help it would be intake noise suppression and a better belt but it is going to be noisy just due to its speed and design.  I also considered put it in an enclosure but was concerned about the cooling.  It moves a lot of air over the pump and after-cooler when it runs.  



Dabbler said:


> All I found on amazon.ca were 1HP models.  Because we are in Canada, we don't  qualify for free shipping on amazon.com.  It's something that we've learned to live with in Canada.  People mistakenly think Canadians are most characteristic for our apologies...  Really it's our complacency that defines us! (or at least a bunch of us)


Thanks for the explanation - I did not realize that Amazon Prime was not an advantage in Canada.  Guessing the postal and package delivery infrastructure is a bit of a challenge in most areas.


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## Alan H. (Dec 10, 2017)

Discovered another option that seems to merit some investigation - Rolair.

BTW, these "quiet compressors" seem to be catching on now with offerings out there by Husky, Campbell Hausfeld, Eagle, and others.   Did a patent expire?  Looks like the California Air Tools use aluminum tanks on their hot dog units and create a bit of a weight advantage vs. their competitors.

The Rolair JC10Plus claims to be a contractor model and has essentially the same performance specs as the California Air Tools model 4610ALFC that I am considering and started this tread with.  The Rolair has less bling and comes at a more attractive price - likely in part due to its smaller single steel tank vs. the aluminum tanks of the CAT.

While the pumps/drive appear similar for the two, they do appear to be different . Here's a side by side of the two:

Rolair JC10 Plus:




CAT 4610ALFC


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## Dabbler (Dec 10, 2017)

The Rolair Jc10 is a 1HP model, and I was hoping for a 2HP model.  I'm going to talk to the Home Depot manager again.  there seems something wrong with his story...


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## Cheeseking (Dec 10, 2017)

kd4gij said:


> What type is your 80gal. compressor?  If it is a belt drive piston compressor it is probably running at max rpm to get max cfm. I put a bigger pulley on my motor to slow it down and it is much quitter than it was . No problems talking to someone standing next to it.



You mean bigger pulley on the pump I think?   We have one at work like that the pump pulley is like 15" diameter and yeah its alot quieter


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## Alan H. (Dec 10, 2017)

Dabbler said:


> The Rolair Jc10 is a 1HP model, and I was hoping for a 2HP model.  I'm going to talk to the Home Depot manager again.  there seems something wrong with his story...


Yes, I am comparing 1 hp models (industrial/commercial pumps).   This 1 hp pump/driver is the one they call "industrial" and claim 4000 hours operating life vs. their others at 3000 hours.

May not matter to you but it appears CAT does not sell a 2 hp with a 4000 hour industrial pump.  

I just noticed that they sell two voltages on the 2 hp.  110v at 14 amps and 220V at 7 amps.  It may be wise to go with thew 220V model if 2 hp is what you are after.  I also take note that the decibel rating on the 2 hp goes up to 70.  That is still quiet but is noticeably louder than their other pumps. 

Good luck with your run at Home Depot.


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## kd4gij (Dec 10, 2017)

Cheeseking said:


> You mean bigger pulley on the pump I think?   We have one at work like that the pump pulley is like 15" diameter and yeah its alot quieter




 Acutely  I went to a smaller pulley on the motor. I guess it was late when I typed that.


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## Alan H. (Dec 11, 2017)

I spoke to both California Air Tools and Rolair by phone. 

Rolair sources their entire unit from China as an in the box unit ready to go.  The gent I spoke to could not give me a life expectancy nor much other definitive information.  The conversation was a bit disappointing.  Perhaps a bad luck of the draw when I called??

California Air Tools (CAT) was quite informative and conversational.  Their pumps and motors come from China.  They assemble their compressor units from pieces and parts acquired from different sources in their San Diego facility.  For example, some of their tanks come from Mexico.  Their on/off control switches are Condor (a name I am familiar with).  They say there is a difference between the more expensive  industrial motor/pump units they offer.  For example the industrial version does have enhancements like a different Teflon for the rings but they were a bit reluctant to discuss too much more on the differences since they feel that's proprietary.  They did seem to be very careful not to be misleading in any of their answers and came across as honest and straightforward.   They seemed naturally concerned about managing customers expectations in terms of flow rate capacities.   They avoided generalities and fluff which I appreciated.   They were quite candid.

After my conversations with these two suppliers, I see CAT as the supplier for a 1 HP unit if I chose to go that direction.   While they have numerous offerings in the 1 HP class, I see the 4610ALFC or the 6010LFC as the units that would serve my needs.  I lean more toward the one 4610ALFC because of smaller footprint and a small weight advantage.   Here's what they look like.

4610ALFC:




6010FLC:


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## ddickey (Dec 22, 2017)

What did you end up buying Alan H?


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## Alan H. (Dec 22, 2017)

Ordered the 4610ALFC via a Zoro flash sale.  This is the one with the two aluminum tanks, their better grade motor/pumps, small footprint, and light weight for portability.

Got a great price, downside is it doesn't ship for 5 to 10 business days (i.e. drop ship from Mfg.).  Based on my experience, Zoro's performance on drop shipping tends to be under performing!  I therefore generally avoid it unless there is an incentive to go that route.   This was an instance where it was worth it.


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## Alan H. (Feb 1, 2018)

Here's the CAT compressor I bought feeding the big tank as a receiver.  I likely will not use it this way but it really is quiet and brought the big tank up to pressure.    

I will likely move it back near the mill, lathe, and fog buster as I intended when I bought it.


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## marcusp323 (Feb 2, 2018)

Had mine for a year now, running daily & zero problems. Didn't opt for the aluminum tanks, but ain't toting it much either. Think I got it for around $85 + tax & picked it up at the local HD.
Mark


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## ChrisAttebery (Feb 2, 2018)

I've had the CAT 10020 - 220V model for just under 4 years. It's been very reliable. When I got it it made a fairly loud whistle at the end of each cycle. I added a 10-32 nipple and 12" of 1/8" silicone fuel line (Radio control parts) to the relief valve. The modification made a huge difference and I can't hear the whistle in the house anymore.


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