# Worn lathes



## cannonmakerken (Aug 18, 2018)

I have an old 13" South Bend lathe that has a ridge on the top of the ways is that going to be a bad for the accuracy of the lathe I know the lathe is WW2 vintage.I've also read and seen on youtube that you can still do good work on an old worn out lathes but others say you can't could I get some advice on this please thanks.


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## benmychree (Aug 18, 2018)

It certainly will effect accuracy, but to what extent, time (only) will tell.  Bottom line, you likely will be able to do a bunch of work with it.  The shop I apprenticed in had several lathes that had worked 3 shifts a day since WW-2, they were in quite bad condition as regards wear to the ways and carriage, the compounds sat about 1/8" lower than original, yet they still made reasonably accurate parts.


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## Eddyde (Aug 18, 2018)

Yes, one can still get reasonable accuracy from a worn lathe. In my experience, for most work, you really only need to hold a tight tolerance for a couple of inches or less, which should be no problem, even with a worn machine. However, If you need to hold an accurate diameter over the entire length of long part, it could be an issue. So far in my 35+ years of owning an old worn lathe, that situation has never arisen...


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## Technical Ted (Aug 18, 2018)

When I was first learning machinist work we had some worn lathes and I complained to the machinist leader about it. He said something to me I've always remembered: "Any machinist can run a new lathe, but it takes a good machinist to run a worn lathe." 

You will learn SO MUCH more on a worn machine than one that is spot on. You'll learn how to better sneak up on dimensions, filing and polishing to size when needed... tweaking the leveling and/or adjusting the tail stock to get things running better where and when you need it most. The list goes on and on. Just think about the days of old with it's carbon steel tool bits, line shafts, files and fitting and such. Men did some of the most accurate and beautiful work ever done then. Truly an art. 

Stick with that machine and learn away!

Ted


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## pacifica (Aug 18, 2018)

The issue for me with tools that aren't accurate is that you never know if  you are at fault or the tool. For example: if there is an issue with tolerances it is important  to know that your protractor, micrometer , gage blocks , gage pins or surface plate are accurate. Then you know it is your technique.Same idea with a mill, lathe or saw.Improving technique  is learning.


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## markba633csi (Aug 18, 2018)

Give Eddie Van Halen a POS guitar and he'll make it sound great.  Same Idea here.
mark
ps not to say that you don't need accurate measuring tools, you do.  But they need not be expensive.


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## Richard King 2 (Aug 19, 2018)

I agree with the other guys.   When I get a call from a customer and he says "My lathe needs to be rebuilt"  I go and look and see the wear up near the chuck and ask the owner does he turn between centers much?    Most of the time they say no.  Then I do a 2 collar test and twist the bed out of alignment so the lathe cuts straight.  Then when they do between centers I say they can file of sand the bigger end near the chuck. 
Pic's.  2 collar test and Tail Stock alignment after we twist the bed.

If he says he turns precision parts between centers I rebuild the machine.     Rich


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## cannonmakerken (Aug 19, 2018)

Richard King 2 said:


> I agree with the other guys.   When I get a call from a customer and he says "My lathe needs to be rebuilt"  I go and look and see the wear up near the chuck and ask the owner does he turn between centers much?    Most of the time they say no.  Then I do a 2 collar test and twist the bed out of alignment so the lathe cuts straight.  Then when they do between centers I say they can file of sand the bigger end near the chuck.
> Pic's.  2 collar test and Tail Stock alignment after we twist the bed.
> 
> If he says he turns precision parts between centers I rebuild the machine.     Rich


Oh okay thanks for the advice this lathe is just a hobby lathe I'm not making anythig for NASA plus I  couldn't afford to rebuild it anyway all I've  made is cannons the guys at my old job wanted to make for them and they liked my work.


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## cannonmakerken (Aug 19, 2018)

markba633csi said:


> Give Eddie Van Halen a POS guitar and he'll make it sound great.  Same Idea here.
> mark
> ps not to say that you don't need accurate measuring tools, you do.  But they need not be expensive.


Oh thanks how about Charlie Danials and his violin.


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## Superburban (Aug 19, 2018)

Since I have another lathe for the long stuff, I did not mind the wear on the ways of the 16" south bend I just picked up. 90% of what I plan it for, the compound will be the main part used.

What I did not expect, and will need to fix (Don't think the fix will be that hard), is the compound. When the gib is adjusted for the near end, you cannot move the compound to the other end, it starts getting hard to turn about the middle of travel.


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## cannonmakerken (Aug 19, 2018)

Technical Ted said:


> When I was first learning machinist work we had some worn lathes and I complained to the machinist leader about it. He said something to me I've always remembered: "Any machinist can run a new lathe, but it takes a good machinist to run a worn lathe."
> 
> You will learn SO MUCH more on a worn machine than one that is spot on. You'll learn how to better sneak up on dimensions, filing and polishing to size when needed... tweaking the leveling and/or adjusting the tail stock to get things running better where and when you need it most. The list goes on and on. Just think about the days of old with it's carbon steel tool bits, line shafts, files and fitting and such. Men did some of the most accurate and beautiful work ever done then. Truly an art.
> 
> ...


Yes your right on about the old time machinists they could take a chisel,file and scrapper and make their own lathes they were the real machinists true artists I  wish I  could have seen them make them.


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## cannonmakerken (Aug 19, 2018)

benmychree said:


> It certainly will effect accuracy, but to what extent, time (only) will tell.  Bottom line, you likely will be able to do a bunch of work with it.  The shop I apprenticed in had several lathes that had worked 3 shifts a day since WW-2, they were in quite bad condition as regards wear to the ways and carriage, the compounds sat about 1/8" lower than original, yet they still made reasonably accurate parts.


Oh thanks that really makes me feel good about having this old SouthBend lathe.


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## cannonmakerken (Aug 19, 2018)

Eddyde said:


> Yes, one can still get reasonable accuracy from a worn lathe. In my experience, for most work, you really only need to hold a tight tolerance for a couple of inches or less, which should be no problem, even with a worn machine. However, If you need to hold an accurate diameter over the entire length of long part, it could be an issue. So far in my 35+ years of owning an old worn lathe, that situation has never arisen...


Thanks for your feedback do you think having an old American made lathe is better than the new Asian made lathes? Especially if its just a hobby lathe.


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## cannonmakerken (Aug 19, 2018)

Ok thanks guys for all your help this makes me feel much better about my machine I sold a 9inch South Bend lathe to a guy who played a horn in the Omaha Symphony in Nebraska who made brass horns and sold them, his friend who came with him was a mechanical engineer who helped him make horns almost begged me to sell them my 13" South Bend lathe but I  declined.


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## cascao (Aug 19, 2018)

There a lot you can do to improve accuracy in your lathe.


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## cannonmakerken (Aug 20, 2018)

Okay thanks for all the advice and replys it was very helpful.


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## Eddyde (Aug 20, 2018)

cannonmakerken said:


> Thanks for your feedback do you think having an old American made lathe is better than the new Asian made lathes? Especially if its just a hobby lathe.


It depends on the individual machines. There are certainly some very well made Asian lathes which would out preform a worn out American machine. Likewise, an old American lathe in good condition could be equal or better than top Asian machines. For hobby use I say go with whats available and fits your needs. Old Iron is great but the right one can be hard to find...


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