# Albrecht Chuck



## Flyrod (Aug 17, 2017)

Hi Guys

I picked up an Albrecht chuck from ebay...looks to be in pretty good shape











it was sold with the r8 arbor shown above - i bought it to use in an Index 40 mill (now converted to accept r8 tooling) - the problem is that this arbor is a little too long...and when fully drawn up into the mill, it is still loose - i need to shorten it by about 1/4"

i guess i could just cut it down (saw, grind, machine in the lathe?)

but the other option is to press the arbor out and put in a new one that is a little shorter

unlike the one pictured in tom lipton's rebuild video, here: 




or the write up here: http://www.machinistblog.com/rebuilding-an-albrecht-drill-chuck/

the collar does not have a screw in it that you can remove and pry the collar off - for most of these chucks, you clamp on the part under the collar and on the hood and turn in opposite directions and the hood comes off




once the hood is off, i could unscrew the spindle and then press the r8 arbor it came with off

on mine, the collar is permanently [?] affixed to the shell

when i turn the collar, the arbor moves and the jaws inside move - neither the black part of the body or the hood that is affixed to the block body move

can any one tell me how to take this apart? - if i had to guess, i should clamp on the black body and the hood - but before i mess something up i thought i would ask

thanks fellas


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## Chipper5783 (Aug 17, 2017)

Are you saving the "too long" arbor for something special?

If your application requires that 1/4" taken off, then cut it off.  Lots of different ways to do the job.  Using a lathe would probably work very well (I doubt it is particularly hard).  Either cut it off in your saw (add a bunch of packing to the saw vise - I keep an old V-block for such applications) and then gently face it for clean up, or simply face it with lots of little cuts.  Will your lathe chuck take the drill chuck in the bore?  Just grip over some packing (perhaps aluminum or copper) and away you go.  You could even snug some threaded rod (or a bolt) into the drawbar hole and provide TS support (part of which you would cut away).


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## Flyrod (Aug 17, 2017)

Thanks David

no...not saving the arbor for anything

the chuck will not fit into the bore of the lathe - since the knurling is the widest part, i would have to clamp on that ... afraid i would ruin the knurling

i guess unless anyone else has a dissassembly suggestion, i'll just using something to cut a bit of the arbor off


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## Silverbullet (Aug 17, 2017)

Couldn't you add a spacer on your draw bar. ?? Are your other collets real r8 or just look it. I ask because other collets look close but aren't. Is the draw bar tight and it's still loose. ?? It may need the hole drilled and tapped deeper.. Something don't sound right.... at least to me...


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## darkzero (Aug 17, 2017)

I could be wrong but it looks like you have the integral shank model. If yes, you can't simply remove the arbor from the chuck.

This is what it would look like with a removeable arbor, see the difference?

(Pic stolen from the net)


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## Flyrod (Aug 17, 2017)

Silverbullet said:


> Couldn't you add a spacer on your draw bar. ?? Are your other collets real r8 or just look it. I ask because other collets look close but aren't. Is the draw bar tight and it's still loose. ?? It may need the hole drilled and tapped deeper.. Something don't sound right.... at least to me...



i haven't measured the taper, it came with the chuck, but it was advertised as r8 - yes, the drawbar is tight and it is still loose - seems like the draw bars is bottoming out without pulling it up high enough



darkzero said:


> I could be wrong but it looks like you have the integral shank model. If yes, you can't simply remove the arbor from the chuck.
> 
> This is what it would look like with a removeable arbor, see the difference?
> 
> ...



Will... exactly - mine does not have that removable collar - it is not clear to me how to disassemble it - i think that i would grip on the black part of the body and unscrew the hood - then take out the spindle once i am inside - their normal chuck arbors press fit in (i think it is typically a jacobs 6...not sure) - but as you suggest, maybe the arbor is on for life

if that is the case, i think i draw a line for how much to take off, use a hack saw for most and grind down to that line (and clean up any rough edges) - if that makes it work (and there is no way to get the arbor out)

i think the model i have is the:

Self-tightening drill chuck with integrated R8 shank. 1 - 13 mm, on page 19 of the attached catalog - Will...you are probably right that the arbor is dedicated - you can see that many of the other morse taper arbors have a tang where is the "bridgeport" model does not

Silverbullet's idea of another spacer at the top of the draw bar might work...but adds another loose part in the system


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## darkzero (Aug 17, 2017)

Yes the split & non split collar is another indication. But the easiest way to tell is on yours the R8 tapers goes all the way to the body of the chuck with no gap. On a removeable arbor model like I posted a pic of, you can see a large gap between the R8 taper & chuck, this is where you would insert wedge removal tools.

I'm curious now, do other R8 arbors fit your spindle just fine (well I assume yes)? I thought R8 would be an industry standard but never thought about the length of the arbor to be that critical. If you compare it to your other R8s that fit, is it that much longer? 

What's inside your spindle that prevents the arbor from tightening up? Without using the drawbar, can you push the Albrecht all the way into the taper? What comes to mind rather than the Albrecht arbor being too long is, maybe your draw bar is too long or running out of threads to tighten it up. Or if your spindle has the key, maybe the slot on the Albrecht is not long enough?


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## darkzero (Aug 17, 2017)

If Silverbullet's suggestion of using a spacer works, that leads me to believe your drawbar is too long for this particular arbor.

I guess I never ran into this problem cause I made my draw bar with a double nut design to account for issues like this (well my stock one was the same way).


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## Flyrod (Aug 17, 2017)

Will - thanks - good suggestions

I recently got my first mill, and Index (now Wells-Index) model 40 from 1949

stock, it came with a B&S #9 taper in the quill - Wells-Index has a service where they will regrind it to r8 for about 250 - i just did that - i will take out the drawbar tomorrow and take some pictures and measurements

it does not have a key

i will say that when i put the albrecht/r8 arbor next to a set of r8 arbors (cheap chinese) that i bought for the mill, the albrecht is about 1/4" longer than the other set - i don't have any other r8 collets or tooling to use for comparison...this is all new to me


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## darkzero (Aug 17, 2017)

Ah I see, I was just hoping there might be another solution rather than having to modify your beautiful Albrecht. Your's is really clean! But if it has to be done to get it to work with your mill then ya gotta do what you gotta do!


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## Tony Wells (Aug 17, 2017)

Cutting it off will do nothing to gain threads. If the drawbar is indeed bottoming out, then a spacer is the easy way out. Seen them on drawbars many times.  It's possible your drawbar is just too long. How much excess thread do you have that extends past the threaded portion of your collets? If 1/4" or so, cut off the drawbar and call it good. If it does extend past the threads in your collets, you are shortchanging yourself on how much end mill shank you can swallow in the collet anyway.


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## mikey (Aug 17, 2017)

That looks like an integral shank chuck to me; they do not have a removable collar. If you push the arbor in and it seats, then the issue is that the drawbar is too long. You can cut the end of the arbor and the bar will still be too long and there will still be slack. Most drawbars thread into the R8 collet way more than is needed for maximum strength anyway so cutting of 1/4" off the end of the drawbar should not be a big thing.

Well, that's what I think, anyway!  

Edit:  Ah, Tony, great minds think alike!


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## tq60 (Aug 17, 2017)

Place hands in pocket...

Consider placing a large bolt or 1/2 round stock in a lathe.

Next place chuck on stock as if loading it into the chuck.

Use tail stock to support end of arbor.

Now use lathe to cut off end of arbor.

Remove hands from pocket as you should be past the duh moment where you slap your forehead.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk


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## Flyrod (Aug 17, 2017)

thanks guys

I will:

1. push the shank in without the drawbar in to see if it fits
2. assuming it does, i will start measuring and photographing the drawbar and circle back

the set up currently includes a spacer ... so maybe the answer is another ... or shortening the drawbar

with your assistance we'll figure it out

thanks!

PS: Will, that albrecht with the integrated r8 is a thing of beauty - to me, it seems like the guy never used it...like new condition - i agree that it will be a shame to hack it up...i am hopeful we can avoid this


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## Flyrod (Aug 17, 2017)

tq60 said:


> Place hands in pocket...
> 
> Consider placing a large bolt or 1/2 round stock in a lathe.
> 
> ...



TQ: from what others are saying, shortening the arbor will not fix the problem?? this actually confuses me because the r8 collets that fit are shorter...so to me, you get to the bottom (top?) of the collet quicker and it is therefore tight by virtue of being shorter...but i am a newbie and greater minds disagree...


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## darkzero (Aug 17, 2017)

Since you say your other R8 tooling is shorter compared to the Albrecht & that your mill spindle was reground to convert it to R8, I think the very first thing to check is #1 in your post above, check if the Albrecht will actually fully seat in the spindle. Maybe when it was modified they didn't leave enough clearance for longer length arbors.


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## Flyrod (Aug 17, 2017)

bingo

suspense was killing me so i went to garage and checked...it will not seat fully into the spindle

maybe there were limitations in the original spindle - i'll call them tomorrow and find out

i guess the only way to use this would be to machine it down a bit

by the way...why aren't all r8's the same?


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## Bob Korves (Aug 18, 2017)

I think your issue is related to the conversion from B & S 9 to R8.  First, count the number of threads the drawbar goes into the collet.  It does not need more than about 3/4" of thread engagement to be as strong as the drawbar is, and we certainly do not tighten collets down that tight anyway.  Perhaps cutting the drawbar off will cure your issue.  A spacer would be a good test to confirm that it would fix it.


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## Flyrod (Aug 18, 2017)

thanks Bob

actually, i took the draw bar out and tried to hand fit the arbor, the space inside the spindle is not deep enough...the arbor bottoms out before becoming hand tight....

given that, i think the only first step is to shorten the arbor .... maybe at that point the draw bar also needs to be shortened....i don't know


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## Bob Korves (Aug 18, 2017)

Flyrod said:


> thanks Bob
> 
> actually, i took the draw bar out and tried to hand fit the arbor, the space inside the spindle is not deep enough...the arbor bottoms out before becoming hand tight....
> 
> given that, i think the only first step is to shorten the arbor .... maybe at that point the draw bar also needs to be shortened....i don't know


Sounds like you should first measure the arbor on the Albrecht chuck to see if it conforms to the standards for R8 tooling.  If it does, then send the spindle back to Wells-Index to do it right.  If the Albrecht shank checks out too long, send the chuck back to Albrecht and have them shorten it to specs or replace it or give you your money back.  An R8 tool needs to fit in a R8 spindle without hacking on it.


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## Flyrod (Aug 18, 2017)

Bob - quite right

the "spec" for r8 (according to wells index) is 4.25" and that they usually grind over that - so i measured the depth of the spindle and it measured about 4.6...so the issue is not there

i measured the arbor - 4.2 inches - so no issues there

it occured that maybe there was an issue in the threads ... sure enough, the drawbar threads needed to be chased - i did the arbor as well...issue solved!!

usable r8 spindle on mill - usable albrecht integrated r8 shank drill chuck - life is good!!

thanks to all who helped


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## wawoodman (Aug 18, 2017)

I have a couple of R-8s that need spacers on the drawbar on the Rockwell mill. It never occured to me that it's an issue! I just went ahead and did what needed ro be done.


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## Silverbullet (Aug 18, 2017)

Flyrod said:


> Bob - quite right
> 
> the "spec" for r8 (according to wells index) is 4.25" and that they usually grind over that - so i measured the depth of the spindle and it measured about 4.6...so the issue is not there
> 
> ...


Your welcome


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