# Help needed for capacitors on old GE motor



## Mike8623 (May 27, 2019)

I'm trying to get a old GE Tri/clad motor going. I think all I need are the Start/run capacitors and a on/off switch. The motor is:

GE Tri/Clad
Model # 5KC145AL2003Y
115/230 volts
20.8/104 amps
1725 rpm
1.5hp

It appears to be wired for 230V and is missing the capacitors. It has 4 wires with clips, which I assume is where the capacitors go. Does anyone have any ideas on what capacitors I should be looking for? The 4 wires that have the clips on them are numbers 9,10,5 and no number on the 4th one. Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.


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## markba633csi (May 27, 2019)

What I would do is look on the Grizzly website for a lathe or mill with a 1.5 horsepower motor and get the capacitor values for it from the manual
Of course it will be an educated guess but unless someone has a better idea?  As to which is the start cap and which is the run you may have to open the motor and trace the leads that come off the centrifugal start switch to determine that
Mark
ps the start cap is usually somewhere around 150- 350 uF (microfarad),
the run cap usually less than 80 or so for a motor that size


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## Mike8623 (May 27, 2019)

Well it just so happens I was sitting in front of my G0709, but it is a 2hp. I got the manual out and it states:

Start capacitor: 150M 250V 1 3/8 x 2 3/4
Run capacitor:    20M 400V 1 5/8 x 2 3/4

Do you think those would be alright to use?


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## markba633csi (May 27, 2019)

Those would be fine to try, and really, the values are not all that critical- you could be off by 30% on the values and the motor would still run fairly well
If the start capacitor is too small the motor will just start more sluggishly.  The run cap value will have an impact on the horsepower and efficiency, but it too isn't all that critical


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## markba633csi (May 27, 2019)

Older motors tend to use slightly larger cap values for a given HP rating, I've found


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## Mike8623 (May 27, 2019)

OK guys I did a little more looking and found a 1.5hp grizzly motor that gave the specs for the capacitors.

start: 400mfd 125v  1 3/4x3 3/8
run  : 25mfd 250V    1 3/8x2 3/8

Then found some on ebay. so looks like I'm fixed up. You know I was looking for hours online and didn't come up with much.....but you guys helped me out with an idea I hadn't even thought of.....so thanks to all of you.........you made my day.


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## markba633csi (May 27, 2019)

One thing I neglected to mention: the voltage ratings of the caps should be as high as possible consistent with getting them to fit in the spaces provided-
sometimes you have to make a compromise here, but 125 volts is getting on the ragged edge as far as reliability- I would shoot for at least 250 volts ac for both if possible.
For dual-voltage motors wired for 240v the start cap usually only sees 120v because of the way the windings are arranged inside, but higher voltage caps are preferred for long life, the tradeoff is size
M


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## Mike8623 (May 28, 2019)

OK Mark I found on ebay the following capacitors

start: 400mfd 250V
run:   25mfd  450F

So I think I'll go with those.

On wiring I saw a wiring diagram for 230v on another site and it went:

#1 power in line 1
#4 power in line 2
#2 to #3
#6 to #7
#8 to #9
#5 to #10

My wires appear to be the same except for #5 and #10 which have clips on them, which I assume is for the capacitors. In addition to 5&10 I also have a clip on #9 and an unmarked wire with a clip on it.

I assume wires 1&4 go to the start switch but I'm wondering how to connect wires 5,9,10 and the unmarked wire to the capacitors...in what order or just which wires go to which capacitor. Can you give any insight here.


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## Bob Korves (May 28, 2019)

The easy way is to take it to a local motor shop, have them look at it, and then take home the caps they sell you.


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## markba633csi (May 28, 2019)

Since we are assuming things I'm going to assume that GE does things in a mostly logical fashion so 9 and 10 probably go to one of the caps and 5 and the unmarked wire with clip go to the other one.  But as I mentioned in post #2 you need to open the motor and find which of those 4 wires comes from the internal centrifugal start switch,  otherwise you'll have to guess at which cap goes where- coin toss, and one of the caps may fail suddenly (burst) if you guess wrong
Mark


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## Mike8623 (May 28, 2019)

I'm way out in the sticks, no motor shop for a hundred miles. I know about nothing when it comes to electricity. If I take the motor apart will the start switch be apparent? Sorry guys for my lack of knowledge.


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## Mike8623 (May 28, 2019)

OK guys took it all apart. It only has one switch in it. The switch has two soldered wires on it. Neither wire has a number on it. One wire goes and connects to the #8 wire and the other goes and connects to one of the wires with a clip on it, which I think goes to one of the capacitors.


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## markba633csi (May 28, 2019)

OK the one with the clip on it definitely goes to the larger start cap.  Is that the wire with no number? If so, then the other start cap wire is most likely #5.
Then wires 9 and 10 go to the smaller run cap. Fingers crossed


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## Flyinfool (May 28, 2019)

Many motors have wiring info on them somewhere to tell you how to choose whether it is 120 or 220. Often on the inside of the cover to the electrical box or on the nameplate.


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## Mike8623 (May 29, 2019)

OK guys and especially Mark, you all have responded more than I could have hoped for. I think I have the info I need. I'll buy a couple of capacitors, some wire and switches, put it all back together and see what happens. This has been a journey on learning for me and that is what life is all about. As I said I live way out and I do  most all my shopping and buying online, no ups or fedex up at my house, my stuff has to be left in town and I go in and pick it up. I don't get off my place much, but I enjoy the way I live. Just us, my dogs and all the animals. Had about 20 mule deer come by a few days ago and about half were bucks, sure nice watching them. And don't let anyone tell you the Grizzly bears aren't doing well, Life is always good guys and never a bad day, just some a little better than others.

It'll be about 10 days or so but I'll let everyone know how it turns out, again thanks Guys.

Mike
Montana


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## markba633csi (May 29, 2019)

Good deal Mike- I've heard land is still somewhat affordable there- sounds real peaceful too. I would miss the convenience of UPS though.
What about regular mail? Do they make the trek out to you?
M
ps How long have you lived there?


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## Mike8623 (May 29, 2019)

Mark, we bought our place back in the 90's at 750.00 a acre (160 acres, just land). It is a lot more now but not unaffordable depending on your tradeoffs (Do you want overseas vacations and trips to the carribean every year and a new car or motorhome in the driveway). In my opinion it is very peaceful....... I have no desire to get off my place and if I get a hankering for some mingling I just ride my atv or take my truck into town (about 700 people), visit a few folks or go have a drink or two........I do find I am a little chatty after keeping to myself quite awhile so I have to remember to let other folks talk.  What's fantastic about here are the animals.......we have all of them and they do come by especially in August and later as water gets low and they come by to get a drink. What a feeling to be watching TV and see a Grizzly come walking by to take a drink of water. The Grouse walk around like Chickens, some will walk up to within 5 feet of you or so. You wonder how they survive being like that.  We have to go into town to get our mail at a P.O. Box and winter can be a challenge, but it is all a tradeoff.  My only regret is not coming here 10 years before I did .  I just try to fit in here and not change anything and live just like the folks that are here. It took about 5 years to be accepted, but after that I'm just like I was born here. We have a real nice home and I have a fully equipped gunsmith shop build on to the house. I try to save up projects for winter to keep me busy and have missed the last two New Year eves in town due to being snowed in. I also have a wife that doesn't need a mall and I think likes our lifestyle more than I do.

My saying is: As early as you can, Figure out where you want to be buried and start heading there!

Thanks again Mark for your help.


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## Mike8623 (Jun 7, 2019)

Well 42 degrees at 8:30 this morning, chilly. Got the capacitors and put them in, Plugged the motor in and just a loud hum. so I'm stuck


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## markba633csi (Jun 7, 2019)

OK time to experiment- remove the caps and try finding continuity between pairs of wires.  That should give you an idea which pairs receive caps. Then try connecting the large cap to one pair or another till it starts. You can leave off the small cap at first.
Mark


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## markba633csi (Jun 8, 2019)

The wire that came from the internal start switch should be (must be) one of the start cap wires.  I had assumed that GE did things in a numerically sequential fashion,  looks like that may not be the case.  The other possibility is that the motor has an open start winding or problem with the start switch


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## Mike8623 (Jun 9, 2019)

Well thank you Mark. I'll try a few more things, Company just came and will be here a week or so and then some more of the wifes company is coming so I'm going to hold off awhile on my motor tinkering. Mark I do thank you an awful lot for helping me along.......this site is so good at helping folks. I'm attaching a pic of our house taken by a friend that has a plane.


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## markba633csi (Jun 9, 2019)

Ok we'll catch up later- you certainly have a nice spread there


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## Mike8623 (Jun 11, 2019)

Mark or anyone else.....on a different motor. A 3 phase baldor. it is wired for high voltage per the wires and the diagram. It has a total of 9 (all 9 are white) wires 3 of which have bare ends and aren't connected to anything, they are 1,2 and 3. I have a 10gauge 4 wire cord to attach to the motor. But which wire goes to which wire. does motor wire 1 go to the red, black, white or green. and so on with wires 2 and 3. I assume the green wire on the cord is for ground.....so can you offer an opinion on how to wire the red, black and white to the that motor and wires 1,2 and 3?


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## markba633csi (Jun 11, 2019)

Mike:  The 3 wires 1, 2 and 3 must be the input wires. Green should be the ground.  You can connect the 3 input wires in any order, the motor will either spin clockwise or counterclockwise.  To reverse it you swap any two of the three.  Are you using a VFD or a rotary phase converter? VFDs have a reversing feature built in.  Depending on your supply you may want either low or high voltage configuration
Mark


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## Mike8623 (Jun 11, 2019)

Thanks Mark, I have a rotary phase converter


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