# PM-1440TL shipping mishap



## jeremysf

Well, bummer. I could tell looking at the shipping crate the minute the driver opened the truck door things were not right. 

We could barely get it off the truck with the forklift the shipping crate was smashed up so bad, and once we did, we could see the damage to the back of the crate was worse than the front.

Peeking inside the back of the crate, castings broken, cross slide and apron took a beating, overall a mess.

I'm not sure what happened during the shipping process, but something brutal. I think PM did a good job crating it up and they have been very supportive through the whole process (including the shipping issues). 

Ultimately, I refused shipment, and loaded it back up on the truck.

Been waiting eagerly on this since January and it looks like if I want to stick with a PM-1440TL, I'll have to wait until August. 

There are for sure bigger problems in the world right now than damaged lathes, but uh, send hugs.


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## parshal

How could the shipper even try to deliver that!


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## 7milesup

Wow.


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## Aukai

Oh my word, that is a huge disappointment. That's worse than someone kicking your dog, at least you could punch them out, this is torture.


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## jeremysf

At some level, I kinda wanted to cry not because I was disappointed, but like, OMG WHO SMASHED THIS BEAUTIFUL PRECISION MACHINE. And then I was like "oh crap, that's MY beautiful precision machine". But I held in the tears. Mostly. Lol.


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## Aukai

That is a heart dropping disappointment of the highest level.


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## davidpbest

Wow, what a disappointment.  I would be very interested to hear how all this gets rectified - especially how the shipping company and insurance aspect settle out and who ends up eating the costs involved.


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## Janderso

I'm sure you were very excited to get your new lathe, then this shows up!!
It's just awful. I hope it all works out well for you.


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## DavidR8

Wow, that totally sucks. All that wait only to have it arrive all busted up.


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## BladesIIB

Very sad to see a 1440 in that shape. I really hope they get you taken care of quickly.


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## Z2V

Sorry to see that, again.


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## nighthawkFmobil

Sorry for the misfortune man. I feel like a sissy hearing about this knowing I whine to myself waiting on my mill until mid juneish


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## markba633csi

Somebody must have been careless during the shipping.  "Hey there's a brand new lathe in there, lets use it as a football!"  Good on you for refusing it.


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## vtcnc

davidpbest said:


> Wow, what a disappointment. I would be very interested to hear how all this gets rectified - especially how the shipping company and insurance aspect settle out and who ends up eating the costs involved.



That is why shipping companies have insurance. This is completely on them and they will have to file a claim. If this was an LTL shipment, they will track the cross dock scans and somebody is getting fired.

This happens all the time. It’s sad but true. The only recourse you have that won’t add more grief is to do exactly what you did- refuse the shipment. Their problem not yours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## matthewsx

parshal said:


> How could the shipper even try to deliver that!


My thought exactly. I feel for the poor guy who had to show up with that mess just to have you refuse it. They should have filed the claim and sent you pictures (and an apology), not gone through the motions of what any supervisor would have realized was just a waste of time and manpower.

JOhn


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## Tipton1965

My stomach dropped when I read your post.  I feel really bad for you.  The 1440 TL is a nice lathe so the extra wait time will be worth it.


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## extropic

@jeremysf 

I'm wondering if you had to rent that fork truck and you will be out rental fee?

I'm happy that you refused delivery. I think it's the best way to proceed. If you had accepted delivery you would have risked a lot of your leverage.


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## jeremysf

PM has been amazing through this. Not just responsive and empathetic, but where it really counts: helping me get a new lathe! 

Since the 1440TL is on back order into September, they helped me with an upgrade to the 1640TL (which is available in June), giving me a few discounts along the way. 

None of this is on them; they didn’t need to do anything. Not only did they get things sorted out, they helped me resolve it on the same day!

So, I need to wait a little longer, but looking forward to getting a really great machine.

On the forklift front, I almost would have preferred to be out the money on a rental. Instead my buddy had trailered his forklift from his farm 1.5 hours away (and back), drove it for me (to unload that mess off and back onto the truck). Feel super bad for wasting his time, but will work to fix that with a case of beers, some BBQ, and eventually, some free machining


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## vtcnc

I’m curious, what was the drivers response? 

Looking closely at the photos... I could be wrong but it looks like the shipping company added a couple of pallets to the load to help hold broken and loose parts in, and then wrapped the new additions. Repackaging is a sure sign the lathe was dropped or something was dropped on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Aukai

It's still a bummer, but I'm glad that Matt and the gang could help relieved the pain a smidge. I will be shipping something soon, may I ask what shipping company? If I use the same one, I'll reinforce proper handling. My 1340 came with no drama, but it's all in the hands of the dock goons I guess, my Doall saw was dropped, and broken. It's a gamble....


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## graham-xrf

vtcnc said:


> I’m curious, what was the drivers response?
> 
> Looking closely at the photos... I could be wrong but it looks like the shipping company added a couple of pallets to the load to help hold broken and loose parts in, and then wrapped the new additions. Repackaging is a sure sign the lathe was dropped or something was dropped on it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Absolutely agreed! It was dropped at some point.
The plastic wrap was an attempt to contain the mess. Why any firm would continue to try and deliver  the wreckage is odd, unless they they were unaware of actual breakage of the internals.

@jeremysf  : You must know that in company like this, it's like it happened to us too. We feel what you feel!


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## vtcnc

graham-xrf said:


> The plastic wrap was an attempt to contain the mess. Why any firm would continue to try and deliver  the wreckage is odd, unless they they were unaware of actual breakage of the internals.


I'm not sure about shipping practices in GB, but it isn't odd at all. In fact, it is the norm in the US when a forklift driver drops, spears or crushes a crate or skid of packages. Or the package shifts in the trailer. The SOP is to Contain, Mask, Pray and Deliver. You can tell this happened here:

1) Contain. The loose wrap and skids propped up inside indicate that the job done by PM was destroyed. This was an attempt to prevent any loose parts from getting loose upon delivery. This is not designed to mask damage. It is designed to protect them from you making a claim that something was missing - damaged or not. If it was damaged, the shipping company will play dumb and blame the manufacturer.

2) Mask. The damaged skid was loaded with its best side showing on the truck. This is a tactic designed to do the following: get it off the truck (its a lot of trouble to get it off the truck). Once it is off the truck, the OWNER now has the burden of inspecting and deciding to refuse. I'll wager that driver played dumb while @jeremysf weighed his options.

3) Pray that you are a dupe and accept the shipment and won't go travel through the hellscape of filing a claim. Don't answer their prayers.

4) Delivery! All is good. "Recipient inspected and accepted the shipment as is." Nothing to see here - moving on.

It's cynical, for sure, but this is what the shipping company defaults to when the SHTF and they know they are on the hook for it. Don't find yourself downwind from the fan.

@jeremysf - good call. Sorry for the grief you are going through but in the end it will all work out in your favor.


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## kb58

vtcnc said:


> ... Once it is off the truck, the OWNER now has the burden of inspecting and deciding to refuse. I'll wager that driver played dumb while @jeremysf weighed his options.


I doubt that drivers stand around and monitor their truck being loaded. They very likely load the trucks third shift, or in the morning, and by the time the drivers arrive, it's loaded and ready to go. I don't know anything about trucking terminals, but that's how I'd run it. It would mean that the driver is caught out just like the buyer.


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## vtcnc

kb58 said:


> I doubt that drivers stand around and monitor their truck being loaded. They very likely load the trucks third shift, or in the morning, and by the time the drivers arrive, it's loaded and ready to go. I don't know anything about trucking terminals, but that's how I'd run it. It would mean that the driver is caught out just like the buyer.


You are right, however, the driver makes frequent stops throughout the day and on occasion can find themselves reloading the truck in order to make other deliveries. They often have seen the damage long before they get to the destination. Not saying that happened here, but I've had plenty of conversations with drivers about what goes on and they know the rules.

@jeremysf - were you the first stop? Or was the truck empty or partially filled with other shipments? Scratch that question. Not your problem now.


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## Just for fun

Bummer dude,  I'm sorry to see that.   Keeping my fingers crossed the next one shows up in perfect condition.


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## stupoty

vtcnc said:


> I'm not sure about shipping practices in GB



Yeah we have the special safe and careful delivery thing too..



























ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Stu


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## Suzuki4evr

parshal said:


> How could the shipper even try to deliver that!


Very good question


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## Janderso

jeremysf said:


> they helped me with an upgrade to the 1640TL


OUTSTANDING!!


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## Ken from ontario

jeremysf,  you're right, "There are for sure bigger problems in the world right now than damaged lathes," but this still sucks, we all feel the frustration and the disappointment you must have felt, the good news is, you still have something to look forward to , a bigger better lathe is a dream for many , yours is about to come true.
Send us pictures when you get the new one.


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## Tipton1965

Janderso said:


> OUTSTANDING!!


That's what I say!!  A 1640TL is worth the hassle.


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## jeremysf

vtcnc said:


> I’m curious, what was the drivers response?
> 
> Looking closely at the photos... I could be wrong but it looks like the shipping company added a couple of pallets to the load to help hold broken and loose parts in, and then wrapped the new additions. Repackaging is a sure sign the lathe was dropped or something was dropped on it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



When I pointed out the damage, the driver was like *shrug*. When I told him I was refusing shipment, I was expecting a debate but I got zero pushback. As he was preparing to leave, he was very apologetic. Seemed like a nice guy, but from his reaction, I don't think he was seeing the damage for the first time when we pulled it down off the truck. 

We probably had it resting on the forks on the ground behind the truck for less than 5 min before putting it back on the truck. There was maybe 6" of clearance max per side left/right when all was right with the world, but in this case, we had to do a lot of forklift shimmy and use long boards to try to wedge that sucker back into the truck as the "crate" was barely staying together.


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## jeremysf

vtcnc said:


> I'm not sure about shipping practices in GB, but it isn't odd at all. In fact, it is the norm in the US when a forklift driver drops, spears or crushes a crate or skid of packages. Or the package shifts in the trailer. The SOP is to Contain, Mask, Pray and Deliver. You can tell this happened here:
> 
> 1) Contain. The loose wrap and skids propped up inside indicate that the job done by PM was destroyed. This was an attempt to prevent any loose parts from getting loose upon delivery. This is not designed to mask damage. It is designed to protect them from you making a claim that something was missing - damaged or not. If it was damaged, the shipping company will play dumb and blame the manufacturer.
> 
> 2) Mask. The damaged skid was loaded with its best side showing on the truck. This is a tactic designed to do the following: get it off the truck (its a lot of trouble to get it off the truck). Once it is off the truck, the OWNER now has the burden of inspecting and deciding to refuse. I'll wager that driver played dumb while @jeremysf weighed his options.
> 
> 3) Pray that you are a dupe and accept the shipment and won't go travel through the hellscape of filing a claim. Don't answer their prayers.
> 
> 4) Delivery! All is good. "Recipient inspected and accepted the shipment as is." Nothing to see here - moving on.
> 
> It's cynical, for sure, but this is what the shipping company defaults to when the SHTF and they know they are on the hook for it. Don't find yourself downwind from the fan.
> 
> @jeremysf - good call. Sorry for the grief you are going through but in the end it will all work out in your favor.



Thanks for the support and everything you say above makes total sense, and I have no doubt you are spot on!


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## jeremysf

vtcnc said:


> I’m curious, what was the drivers response?
> 
> Looking closely at the photos... I could be wrong but it looks like the shipping company added a couple of pallets to the load to help hold broken and loose parts in, and then wrapped the new additions. Repackaging is a sure sign the lathe was dropped or something was dropped on it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


EAGLE EYES. That was our assessment too, that they half heartedly nailed on a few palettes to try to contain the shipment so they could follow through with it.


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## fursphere

Those pictures are hard to look at.  So Sorry.  

I've got a PM-1236 being delivered tomorrow.   Hoping they didn't smash it at this point...   I suspect its the same trucking company since we're both in Northern California.


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## Larry$

extropic said:


> I'm happy that you refused delivery. I think it's the best way to proceed. If you had accepted delivery you would have risked a lot of your leverage.


So true. For everyone here. Trucking company "insurance" is very nearly worthless. Payment is not based on the value of the product! Some companies will drag out the process until you are forced to court. They know it will cost you to take them to court. They already have a full time staff of lawyers. My company shipped thousands of loads over the years. We finally got to the point of either taking an entire trailer or pup or as alternative getting a "sealed divider" shipment. Sealed divider avoids cross dock mutilation. It does make the delivery take longer as that trailer  will likely make several more stops than otherwise. It may get unloaded and reloaded at another dock but your shipment stays on that trailer. LTL is a high risk way to ship. 


vtcnc said:


> I'm not sure about shipping practices in GB, but it isn't odd at all. In fact, it is the norm in the US when a forklift driver drops, spears or crushes a crate or skid of packages. Or the package shifts in the trailer. The SOP is to Contain, Mask, Pray and Deliver. You can tell this happened here:
> 
> 1) Contain. The loose wrap and skids propped up inside indicate that the job done by PM was destroyed. This was an attempt to prevent any loose parts from getting loose upon delivery. This is not designed to mask damage. It is designed to protect them from you making a claim that something was missing - damaged or not. If it was damaged, the shipping company will play dumb and blame the manufacturer.
> 
> 2) Mask. The damaged skid was loaded with its best side showing on the truck. This is a tactic designed to do the following: get it off the truck (its a lot of trouble to get it off the truck). Once it is off the truck, the OWNER now has the burden of inspecting and deciding to refuse. I'll wager that driver played dumb while @jeremysf weighed his options.
> 
> 3) Pray that you are a dupe and accept the shipment and won't go travel through the hellscape of filing a claim. Don't answer their prayers.
> 
> 4) Delivery! All is good. "Recipient inspected and accepted the shipment as is." Nothing to see here - moving on.
> 
> It's cynical, for sure, but this is what the shipping company defaults to when the SHTF and they know they are on the hook for it. Don't find yourself downwind from the fan.
> 
> @jeremysf - good call. Sorry for the grief you are going through but in the end it will all work out in your favor.


Good points. Never, ever accept delivery of a damaged shipment!


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## f350ca

Good chance it fell over in one of the delivery trucks. When I bought my lathe from Summit in Oklahoma they refused to release it to a van, had to be a flat deck where it could be chained down and tarped. They said they tried van shipments but too many fell over.

Greg


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## kb58

Based on the above, my guess is that the driver left the terminal not knowing its condition, then saw it at some point along his route. He could have called you and said that it's damaged, but figured that you'd probably say "bring it by and we'll see how bad it is." So in his mind, he may have figured that it was worth a shot to show up and not say anything, and there'd be some chance that you'd accept it. That's my theory.


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## pacifica

jeremysf said:


> Well, bummer. I could tell looking at the shipping crate the minute the driver opened the truck door things were not right.
> 
> We could barely get it off the truck with the forklift the shipping crate was smashed up so bad, and once we did, we could see the damage to the back of the crate was worse than the front.
> 
> Peeking inside the back of the crate, castings broken, cross slide and apron took a beating, overall a mess.
> 
> I'm not sure what happened during the shipping process, but something brutal. I think PM did a good job crating it up and they have been very supportive through the whole process (including the shipping issues).
> 
> Ultimately, I refused shipment, and loaded it back up on the truck.
> 
> Been waiting eagerly on this since January and it looks like if I want to stick with a PM-1440TL, I'll have to wait until August.
> 
> There are for sure bigger problems in the world right now than damaged lathes, but uh, send hugs.


Definitely buyer beware with shipping companies, 
I know my 1340 gt arrived with crate punched in but it had missed the machine.
The problem with freight shipping is there are several levels of prices with the best handling being astronomical in price, the inexpensive level does not take good care of the product.


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## vtcnc

pacifica said:


> Definitely buyer beware with shipping companies,
> I know my 1340 gt arrived with crate punched in but it had missed the machine.
> The problem with freight shipping is there are several levels of prices with the best handling being astronomical in price, the inexpensive level does not take good care of the product.



Astronomical = dedicated truck = very limited touches = one load/one unload. Usually loaded at point of origin, one driver or tandem drivers that you will be able to talk to and learn their name and a little bit about them when they arrive.

Inexpensive = LTL = Less Than Truckload = Your freight is loaded and herded like cattle over at least one cross dock. Many touches, difficult to trace who touches it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tipton1965

pacifica said:


> Definitely buyer beware with shipping companies,


I sold a completely restored 73 Camaro to a guy on the east coast.  It was show car quality.  He set up the shipping arrangements and the company came and picked it up in an enclosed trailer.  They later switched the car to a soft sided trailer with other cars.  It went from the west coast to east coast in the middle of summer and was completely covered in crap by the time it made it to the new owner.  Bad thing was the new owner wanted it shipped with the side windows down so there was no chance of damaging the NOS side glass (really hard to find those).  So the inside was trashed as well.


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## davidpbest

I could point to several severely damaged shipments of expensive ($10-30K) woodworking equipment where the insurance company position was "$0.10 per pound is the coverage" and the trucking company position was "it wasn't packaged properly" which was total BS.  That left the consumer in a position where they faced giving up or going to court.  I agree with @Larry$ comment that "Trucking company "insurance" is very nearly worthless."  @vtcnc suggestion that someone will get fired, and insurance will cover it is distinctly NOT my experience.  This is what motivated me to ask who is going to eat the cost of this refused delivery - sure hope it doesn't fall back on Precision Matthews.  When I ship equipment, I now have my own household insurance company issue a rider for the shipment value.


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## Ischgl99

davidpbest said:


> When I ship equipment, I now have my own household insurance company issue a rider for the shipment value.



That’s a really good idea I never thought of.


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## vtcnc

davidpbest said:


> I could point to several severely damaged shipments of expensive ($10-30K) woodworking equipment where the insurance company position was "$0.10 per pound is the coverage" and the trucking company position was "it wasn't packaged properly" which was total BS.  That left the consumer in a position where they faced giving up or going to court.  I agree with @Larry$ comment that "Trucking company "insurance" is very nearly worthless."  @vtcnc suggestion that someone will get fired, and insurance will cover it is distinctly NOT my experience.  This is what motivated me to ask who is going to eat the cost of this refused delivery - sure hope it doesn't fall back on Precision Matthews.  When I ship equipment, I now have my own household insurance company issue a rider for the shipment value.


Do you care to share the cost of the rider? That's a good idea. However, you still have to accept delivery.


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## vtcnc

davidpbest said:


> I could point to several severely damaged shipments of expensive ($10-30K) woodworking equipment where the insurance company position was "$0.10 per pound is the coverage" and the trucking company position was "it wasn't packaged properly" which was total BS.  That left the consumer in a position where they faced giving up or going to court.  I agree with @Larry$ comment that "Trucking company "insurance" is very nearly worthless."  @vtcnc suggestion that someone will get fired, and insurance will cover it is distinctly NOT my experience.  This is what motivated me to ask who is going to eat the cost of this refused delivery - sure hope it doesn't fall back on Precision Matthews.  When I ship equipment, I now have my own household insurance company issue a rider for the shipment value.


Would be interesting to here from a machinery dealer what happens in this particular situation.


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## matthewsx

kb58 said:


> Based on the above, my guess is that the driver left the terminal not knowing its condition, then saw it at some point along his route. He could have called you and said that it's damaged, but figured that you'd probably say "bring it by and we'll see how bad it is." So in his mind, he may have figured that it was worth a shot to show up and not say anything, and there'd be some chance that you'd accept it. That's my theory.


I guess his job is to deliver the thing, who knows.... Maybe you ordered a broken one

It's the terminal supervisor and upper management I fault here. They're just hoping you'll accept delivery and then it won't be their problem.

BTW, being the proud owner of a lathe that was dropped once I can assure you that you did the right thing...

John


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## COMachinist

This is the problem with LTL truck company‘s they stop at every little terminal and the thing gets loaded and unloaded 20 times before it get to it’s destination. They are worse than Greyhound Bus.  This is a shame it happened to a very nice machine. I feel for you!
CH


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## ptrotter

This I why I drove 5 hours to PM’s warehouse and had them load my PM-940 into my pickup. Shipping always scares me.


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## Superburban

parshal said:


> How could the shipper even try to deliver that!


Shipping company has no idea whether the receiver is going to accept, and deal with the broken parts, or refuse the shipment.  Many costumers would be more upset if the trucking company sent it back, when they are expecting a delivery.


vtcnc said:


> That is why shipping companies have insurance. This is completely on them and they will have to file a claim. If this was an LTL shipment, they will track the cross dock scans and somebody is getting fired.
> 
> This happens all the time. It’s sad but true. The only recourse you have that won’t add more grief is to do exactly what you did- refuse the shipment. Their problem not yours.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The company I worked for, would not have accepted a machine like that in a flimsy crate like that. should be a full sided with 2x4 braces.

I know of shipments in the same states, that were cross docked 5 or 6 times in one night.


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## G-ManBart

Nothing else I can say that hasn't already been said....but that really does suck!


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## davidpbest

vtcnc said:


> Do you care to share the cost of the rider? That's a good idea. However, you still have to accept delivery.


The cost, or even willingness to issue a rider varies from insurer to insurer.  The more sophisticated providers do this often, and the commodity providers might actually come back with “what’s a rider?” if asked to quote.   But to your specific question, my provider (Chubb) charges me 2-3 percent of the insured value depending on amount, with a small deductible like $250.   Chubb (no affiliation) is a premium-priced provider with policies that are quite comprehensive and underwriters that are quite sophisticated.


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## 7milesup

I did not see mentioned who the carrier actually was.  It would be interesting information.  Maybe not useful, but interesting nonetheless.  

When they shipped my lathe Eisen pretty much insisted on ABF as the carrier.  I got the impression that they had used other carriers in the past with less than great results.  That being said, I have had Saia deliver numerous machines to me with zero issues.


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## vtcnc

7milesup said:


> I did not see mentioned who the carrier actually was. It would be interesting information. Maybe not useful, but interesting nonetheless.
> 
> When they shipped my lathe Eisen pretty much insisted on ABF as the carrier. I got the impression that they had used other carriers in the past with less than great results. That being said, I have had Saia deliver numerous machines to me with zero issues.



ABF is a reputable shipping company in my experience as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dpb

My 1440gt was delivered by UPS.  The driver was initially going to drop the lathe off on my curb. I asked nicely for him to put it in my garage.  He looked at the 60’ of 40’s era split driveway, and decided that one pallet jack wasn’t going to cut it.  He called another driver, in another semi, with another pallet jack, and they took it up my driveway, and placed it in my garage, exactly where I wanted it.  
Their tip was generous.


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## Todd727

Sorry this happened.  A lot of speculation and guessing, you will probably never know what happened.  As far as LTL, my mill came straight from PIT to MEM, no stops, so it really depends on the company routes and your location.

Aside from that, I've received dozens of shipments and always do dock pickup.  Much easier to see damage early, pick it up on my time and not wait around for a driver to show up.  Having been at the docks, the trailers are loaded and the drivers aren't around.


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## mickri

I hope you paid for it with a credit card.  If so you should notify your credit card company immediately that it was damaged and that you refused to accept it.  You will get your money back and not be involved in who is responsible for the damage.  Ultimately this is PM's problem because they picked the shipping company.


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## Todd727

He already isn't involved.  PM has already credited the money towards a 1640TL.


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## Dabbler

There has been some negative shipping experiences mentioned and some risk factors, but I'd like to tell a story about how it worked out for me.

I purchased a 3800# mill from a dealer in Richmond, BC, and had him recommend a shipper to Calgary nearly 1000Km away (600miles) - over the rocky mountains with 17% grades in between.  The shipper was inexpensive enough and I got tailgate delivery (now I know how ridiculous that sounds!)

The machinery guy had a broken down pallet he strapped it to, so the shipping company put the bad pallet on top of a good pallet and strapped the whole mess together.  3 weeks later the truck arrives... The operator told me that the liftgate couldn't lift the mill if we couldn't managed to get it into my garage over the gravel run-up...  So me (mid 60s) and my friend (mid 70s) have him lower it onto plywood and haul by manual force to the pallet jack up the 10 degree slope into my garage...

Talk about tipping - that whole mess was flimsy and then some - but it must have scared the shipper because it was fastened with 4 ratchet straps to E track in the box.  The haul up to the garage was easy, but getting it off the two pallets nearly 10" in the air, was butt puckering to say the least.

For less than 800$ to load, haul 600 miles, unload  -without a scratch, well there are some very good shippers out there!


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## jeremysf

Well, I doubled down and along with a PM-1640TL I ordered a PM-1054TV.

Both are on the container ship "Madrid Bridge" as I type this.





__





						MADRID BRIDGE, Container Ship - Details and current position - IMO 9805453 - VesselFinder
					

Vessel MADRID BRIDGE (IMO: 9805453, MMSI: 431981000) is a Container Ship built in 2018 and currently sailing under the flag of Japan.




					www.vesselfinder.com
				




Supposed to be through the Suez on June 11th. Exciting!

Fingers crossed for a better shipping outcome from PA to CA this time.

For the record, it was "Ward Trucking" that did the final leg of the trip. At least that's where the emails came from; it's possible they sub'd the load out to another company.

I mentioned it before, but Precision Matthews has been AMAZING through all this. Also, I thought PM's packing was pretty great. Their crating job was pretty heavy duty wood. The splintered, spindly wood in the photos is the freight company hammering a few palettes together to replace the missing/smashed out sides.

3800lb engine lathe + gravity vs. any type of wood crate, and pretty sure the 3800lb engine lathe gonna win every time.


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## Suzuki4evr

jeremysf said:


> Supposed to be through the Suez on June 11th. Exciting!


You sure about this..............


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## jeremysf

Suzuki4evr said:


> You sure about this..............



Only as sure as the public data on the vessel finder link above. I didn’t spring for a satellite tracking membership.


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## Suzuki4evr

jeremysf said:


> Only as sure as the public data on the vessel finder link above. I didn’t spring for a satellite tracking membership.


I was jokingly refuring to freight ship getting broadside in the canal a while back. But I am sure everything will go smooth with your shipment.


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## jeremysf

Yea, but you scared me into checking and apparently ANOTHER ship just got stuck in the canal 

Supposedly this time with no disruption to global shipping 





__





						Redirect Notice
					





					www.google.com


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## Suzuki4evr

jeremysf said:


> Yea, but you scared me into checking and apparently ANOTHER ship just got stuck in the canal
> 
> Supposedly this time with no disruption to global shipping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


I can't believe it.


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## sdelivery

parshal said:


> How could the shipper even try to deliver that!


Look at that crate! That was not adequate for a machine tool.


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## Tipton1965

Tipton1965 said:


> My stomach dropped when I read your post.  I feel really bad for you.


My stomach really dropped last week when my Eisen 1340 GHE lathe was delivered.  This is what I found inside the crate.  Needless to say it went right back on the truck.  I now truly feel your pain!


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## MtnBiker

Tipton1965 said:


> My stomach really dropped last week when my Eisen 1340 GHE lathe was delivered.  This is what I found inside the crate.  Needless to say it went right back on the truck.  I now truly feel your pain!


Holy Moley. That's a LOT of damage. Like fell off the truck and run over by a bus damage. And that's one of 3 whole lathes delivered in North America this year.


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## pacifica

Tipton1965 said:


> My stomach really dropped last week when my Eisen 1340 GHE lathe was delivered.  This is what I found inside the crate.  Needless to say it went right back on the truck.  I now truly feel your pain!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 368600
> View attachment 368601
> View attachment 368602
> View attachment 368603
> View attachment 368604


No one from the delivery company said anything?


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## Tipton1965

pacifica said:


> No one from the delivery company said anything?


Nope.  Roadrunner was the freight company from California to Wa state.  Then they handed it off to Elder Logistics for final delivery which I'm certain is where the damage occurred.  They showed up with just the two boxes for the stand. The lathe wasn't even on the truck and the joining plate for the stand was missing too.  I told the driver there should be a crate with the delivery so he called back to the office to see what was up.  They sent him a photo of my stuff exactly how it was delivered to them from Roadrunner and the crate looked just fine.  So they deliver the lathe body the next day and the first thing I see is crate damage and what looked like their attempt to add extra boards and nail it back together.  I pulled the top off and found all the damage.  There was also oil everywhere so I think it was tumbled on to its side at some point.  What's strange is when I was loading it back on to the truck I noticed there were small potted plants all smashed into the underside of the pallet part of the crate.  I'm not sure what happened to that poor lathe but I wanted nothing to do with it so back it went.


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## Janderso

The fact that they tried to patch it and get away with it just makes me angry.
I understand accidents happen but a little effort would be expected. They are cashing the paychecks I assume.
Too bad man, I feel awful for you guys.


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## Just for fun

Oh man,  I'm sorry to hear and see all the damage.


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## WobblyHand

@jeremysf, is the machine at the Suez Canal?  Or will you have to wait a week before you know?

@Tipton1965, sorry about your lathe.  Can't believe the shippers just didn't own up to the mishap.  Would have saved everyone a lot of time.


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## Tipton1965

WobblyHand said:


> @Tipton1965, sorry about your lathe.  Can't believe the shippers just didn't own up to the mishap.  Would have saved everyone a lot of time.


Eisen already shipped me out another lathe.....they have been nothing but excellent to deal with.  They sent me photos of how they package their machines so now I know more about how unethical Roadrunner freight is.  So there is the main crate with the lathe body, and then they steel band the two boxes containing the stand cabinets to the top of the lathe body crate.  They also wrap the stand joining plate and steel band that to the top of the lathe body crate.  So when Roadrunner showed up with only the two boxes containing the stand cabinets they were banded to their own little pallet and the joining plate was missing.  So I think something really heavy landed on top of the whole package and smashed the joining plate and the lathe.  So they banded the cabinet boxes to their own pallet and delivered that first since they weren't damaged.  Then they delivered the lathe body crate the next day (again no joining plate anywhere to be found) in hopes I'd sign without checking the contents.  

As it turned out I didn't check the stand cabinets until after the driver left that first day.  The boxes looked fine so I figured they were okay.  But, they did take some tumbling because the doors came off their hinges inside the boxes and scratched everything up.  It was just cosmetic damage so no biggie.  I prepped the two steel cabinets and re-painted them with my airless sprayer and clear coated them.  They look excellent now.  Eisen wanted to send me new ones but I told them they were fine.


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## Scruffy

matthewsx said:


> My thought exactly. I feel for the poor guy who had to show up with that mess just to have you refuse it. They should have filed the claim and sent you pictures (and an apology), not gone through the motions of what any supervisor would have realized was just a waste of time and manpower.
> 
> JOhn


No one will get fired
Scruffy


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## Cletus

Wow! sorry to hear about that mishap, hope it allworks out fine for you eventually. 
I am stressing out now, knowing in about a month my new PM-935TS will be making the long journey to Trinidad


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## Emery

I am expecting my PM1440TL in September.  I though my only problem was that China might take Taiwan before it ships.  Now I hear about mishaps in shipping and I am getting really worried.  Anyone have any suggestions as to how I could recoup $536 for the forklift rental if I return a damaged lathe?


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## MtnBiker

Emery said:


> I am expecting my PM1440TL in September.  I though my only problem was that China might take Taiwan before it ships.  Now I hear about mishaps in shipping and I am getting really worried.  Anyone have any suggestions as to how I could recoup $536 for the forklift rental if I return a damaged lathe?


When you start doing industrial things you are no longer in that consumer bubble. Can't imagine you'd be able to recoup a rental fee. Pickup at the terminal and do an inspection. Barring that, if you rent on a Thursday/Friday cycle you can usually return on a Monday. That should give you time to return it to a terminal.


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## Emery

Thanks for that information.


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## Tipton1965

Emery said:


> Thanks for that information.


I'd love to see some statistics on how often things get damaged in freight.  I have had really good luck with anything smaller delivered through Fed X or UPS.  But I'm batting 50% when you bump up to a semi delivering bigger/heavier items.  My first freight item was a go-cart I bought for me and my son.  It got lost in transit and took a long time for them to find it and deliver it.  But, it did make it undamaged.  I also bought a 1000 pound gun safe that made it fine. But then I had a pair of large audio speakers delivered that were damaged as well as my 1340 lathe.  But my 2nd 1340 lathe made it in perfect shape.  The joining plate for the two stand cabinets was strapped right on top of the crate where I would think for sure it would have gotten damaged.......not a scratch on it.  It's just weird and a roll of the dice I guess.


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## Firstgear

I have had really great luck with PM.  2 knee mills and a 1440 lathe.


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## tq60

Make a text document stating the following.

DO
NOT
TOP 
STACK

And format it so it fills the whole page.

Send it to anyone sending you anything on a pallet.

Ask them to make copies and attach to top and all sides.

This label directs forklift folks to not place anything on top of the shipment.

It usually prevents it...

If something is stacked reject the load.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Superburban

Tipton1965 said:


> I'd love to see some statistics on how often things get damaged in freight.


I worked for a company almost identical to Saia, (I drove terminal to terminal). I had to check off the items as they were loaded on the trailer that I took back to the starting point. From what I saw, damaged freight was the rare exception (easily less then 1%). Most of what I saw was like a damaged crate, usually poorly designed, and then often no damage to the item inside. 

Before that, I drove for DHL (Contract carrier for DHL), from a terminal, to a sorting station, and back. At the sorting station, I had to wait for the trailer to be unloaded, and then reloaded. The emphasis was on speed, not care. I bet there was damaged stuff every load. I saw freight tossed across the docks, forks through stuff, stuff crushed, run over, and so on. But since you are talking hundreds to thousands of packages on a trailer, it was still likely well under 1% damaged, But enough that amung us drivers, we all agreed that we would not want to for the terminal having to deliver the packages.


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## Superburban

tq60 said:


> Make a text document stating the following.
> 
> DO
> NOT
> TOP
> STACK
> 
> And format it so it fills the whole page.
> 
> Send it to anyone sending you anything on a pallet.
> 
> Ask them to make copies and attach to top and all sides.
> 
> This label directs forklift folks to not place anything on top of the shipment.
> 
> It usually prevents it...
> 
> If something is stacked reject the load.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


No body reads the freight, except for the destination label. lift drivers pick it up, either they, or someone scans it, and they run it to the door they are told. If something is put on top, depends on how sturdy it looks, and how light the next item looks (looks are deceiving, they have no ides what it weighs). A lift driver easily handles several hundred to a thousand pallets each shift.

Want to be sure nothing is put on top, make a cardboard cone on top, so it looks like the item is inside sticking up. But be aware, you may be charged for the extra space. The companies profits are based on how much they can fit on each trailer. A lathe with stand, should be shipped in a crate that can easily handle the weight of the stand on top. The stands should be packaged separate, palatalized, and sitting on top of the lathe. That way they can be handled as one item, but still labeled as separate in case they need to be separated. The company I worked for (Pitt Ohio out of Pa), trained the pickup/ delivery drivers, on how they liked to see items crated, and had them work with the routine costumers to avoid issues. When I left (over 10 years ago now), they were talking about having the drivers take pics of each palate when they picked them up, and dropped them off. They were proactively wanting to work with the costumers in identifying and preventing any damage. It was not as much the cost in damage, but the cost in pride and time as driver is detained while the costumer inspects the freight, and the cost of shipping an item back to the shipper.

99% of freight damage can be prevented at the shippers end.


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## jeremysf

Ugh, sorry to see that.

I'm anxiously awaiting delivery TODAY of my PM-1054TV (single phase) and PM-1640TL (three phase).

I paid a bit extra to get them delivered on a flatbed with forklift service via ABF.

Fingers crossed that they both come through unscathed!! My worry is for sure the last mile.


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## Tipton1965

jeremysf said:


> Ugh, sorry to see that.
> 
> I'm anxiously awaiting delivery TODAY of my PM-1054TV (single phase) and PM-1640TL (three phase).
> 
> I paid a bit extra to get them delivered on a flatbed with forklift service via ABF.
> 
> Fingers crossed that they both come through unscathed!! My worry is for sure the last mile.


Take lots of photos of the delivery and post a few.


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## jeremysf

Much more to come (videos and pics) but SUCCESS!! Here’s the first few pics of the PM-1640TL and PM-1054TV safely delivered into the garage.


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## BladesIIB

Looks awesome!  And you will love that 1640TL.  Fun days ahead!  Personally I found that kerosene, a hard plastic scraper like for window tint and a very stiff bristle brush were the best for removing all the Cosmoline or heavy packing grease.  And of course a lot of paper towels.  Brush it on, let it sit a bit, go back and scrape then brush a little a wipe.  Takes a while but after waiting so long for the machines it is kind of therapeutic to just hang out with them for 10-12 hours and get them cleaned up and set up.  Enjoy!!


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## jeremysf

Yes!! Keep that super practical advice coming! You were definitely my inspiration on these purchases Bud! Your posts and videos have been amazingly helpful. Grateful.


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## BladesIIB

Will do and happy to help. I assume your enclosure is all built and ready to go. Let me know if you get stuck wiring it up.


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## jeremysf

Video of delivery:


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## BladesIIB

Great video, looks like a very smooth delivery. Congrats!!


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## jeremysf

So smooth!  Now for a lot of Egyptian style work! 

For the mill, the plan is a few strategic cuts in the palette and then some pry bars to walk it onto machine skates. 

For the lathe, it’s actually bolted to some 4x6s that are resting on the palette. Plan there is toe jack it up and get the 4x6s onto blocks and then palette jack down and over to its spot. 

Seems much more doable than I initially feared.

Backup plan was (is?) renting a forklift and/or asking my buddy Joe (in the pictures) to bring his down from Lodi again and manipulating things from just outside the mouth of the garage.

Still kind of in shock to be honest. More than half expected additional shipping mishaps.


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## Tipton1965

Glad everything went well......what a relief.


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## Dabbler

That was so easy!  

When I had my 9X49 'First' mill delivered, it was too heavy for the tailgate, so the dude said if it goes down, it stays down...  So we hauled it on a pallet jack up the slope into my garage.  two of us, combined ages of 140 years. It was elevated by 2 pallets stacked on top of the other.  Exiting times...


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## xyz

jeremysf said:


> Video of delivery:


Was the first crate that was unloaded crushed?


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## Just for fun

Congrats on the successful delivery and of course the new machines!


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## Cletus

Sweet!  ......my turn will be soon!


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## jeremysf

xyz said:


> Was the first crate that was unloaded crushed?



Yes. When they strapped it to the flatbed they crushed the crate. Luckily, no damage to the machine.


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## jeremysf

Ok! 

Walked the mill off the palette by lifting it using the roller pry bar vs the palette on one long side and then a beefy gear wrench extendable indexable pry bar on the other long side to shove it “sideways”. On reaching the edge of the palette walked it onto a pair of machine skates with 2x6s squares on top. Continued to use roller bar to lift it (vs blocks now instead of the palette) until we got it entirely off the palette and onto four machine skates with 2x6 square tops. Then we used the roller pry bar on the mill bottom vs blocks to get the mill off the skates and onto a stack of 2x4 blocks. Then walked the mill down, “tipping” it from the front and back progressively. Removed a pair 2x4 blocks from the front or back on each iteration. The last set of 2x4 blocks was by far the most dangerous as we had to avoid the saddle with the pry bar. The skates were not successful for rolling the mill around. My garage floor is too cracked and uneven and the mill kept wanting to slide off the skates rather than the skates role. The skates were invaluable to help get it slid off the palette, but once on flat ground we just used the gear wrench and roller pry bars to slowly shove it into place. Luckily we didn’t have far to go (maybe 8’).

For the lathe, we shored up the palette with additionally 4x4 blocks under the load bearing parts and sawzalled out the middle of the palette (not load bearing) and removed it. We then were able to roll a palette jack under the middle and put a stack of 4x6 blocks on each fork. We raised the palette jack and removed the remaining side parts of the palette. We replaced them with a stack of 2x4 blocks and lowered the palette jack. Then removed a 4x6 from
the palette forks, raised up the palette jack, removed a 2x4 from the ends, rinse and repeat until the lathe was just on the palette jack. We then used the palette jack to get the lathe oriented 180 degrees and into the right spot, maybe 20’ away. Finally we set it down on 2x4 blocks; the palette jack can’t be removed otherwise.

Next up is cleaning and some VFD wiring for the 3 phase lathe (mill is single phase). Need to shim and level the mill. I can then use the palette jack to raise the lathe and move it into its final spot against the wall and put it on the leveling feet. With the leveling feet on, I’ll be able to have clearance to get the palette jack out.

No chips yet, but hard part done! Yay for friends!

Key equipment for us:

Palette jack ($350 investment from Uline; could have rented but keeping for future moving the lathe inside the shop)

Strongway Steel Pry Bar Lever -... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R7CDB9C?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

4Pcs Machinery Mover Set Machine... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08C5GH7PX?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

GEARWRENCH 29-48" Extendable Pry... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SZVJR8?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Then general tools, sawzall, circular saw, about $40 of 2x4 and 2x6s. 

All done by two of us.

Excited for the next steps!


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## xyz

Please post how you do the VFD. I have read how others have done VFD, but on different models. It would be very comforting to see how you do your VFD.  I got the Yamaha VFD from PM.

I have same model 1640TL which was delivered just a few days ago.  Serial number on mine ends in 4050. I am betting yours and mine were made in the same batch.

I have cleaned mine up.  Made sure that all hand controls work.  (The cross feed is stiff, even with the gib completely removed.)  Figured out how to use the taper attachment:  How to put it in neutral (as if it weren't installed).  Ready to move it about 7 feet into position.  


Thanks


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## Tipton1965

That is a fine set of machines.  I have the same brand pallet jack from U-line.  They work really well for moving heavy machinery.


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## Dabbler

great work!  Now that you have the equipment, you might get some  calls from other HM nearby


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## xyz

@jeremysf  Hope you post how you install the VFD.  I am hoping that you bought the Yamaha unit from PM.  

I received a PM-1640TL a few days before you received your machine, but I am stuck trying to resolve a cross slide issue.  So, I am hoping to be a copy-cat, with respect to VFD installation on the 1440TL or the 1640TL. 

Looks like @GladesIIB did the VFD conversion for a PM-1440TL.  I searched this site for "VFD PM 1440TL" to find @BladesIIB's postings.

Please post your progress.

Thanks.


----------



## xyz

xyz said:


> Please post how you do the VFD. I have read how others have done VFD, but on different models. It would be very comforting to see how you do your VFD.  I got the Yamaha VFD from PM.
> 
> I have same model 1640TL which was delivered just a few days ago.  Serial number on mine ends in 4050. I am betting yours and mine were made in the same batch.
> 
> I have cleaned mine up.  Made sure that all hand controls work.  (The cross feed is stiff, even with the gib completely removed.)  Figured out how to use the taper attachment:  How to put it in neutral (as if it weren't installed).  Ready to move it about 7 feet into position.
> 
> 
> Thanks


Looking at your pictures, you got a 1640TL.  Even better for a copy-cat.


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## jeremysf

I have a Hitachi VFD. I’m doing a pretty extensive wiring and customization replacing contactors with relays, reworked the control panel with new controls, etc. Probably not something you’d want to duplicate, but will post a write up of what I do. Probably something I’ll be working on and off for the coming week.


----------



## BladesIIB

xyz said:


> Please post how you do the VFD. I have read how others have done VFD, but on different models. It would be very comforting to see how you do your VFD.  I got the Yamaha VFD from PM.
> 
> I have same model 1640TL which was delivered just a few days ago.  Serial number on mine ends in 4050. I am betting yours and mine were made in the same batch.
> 
> I have cleaned mine up.  Made sure that all hand controls work.  (The cross feed is stiff, even with the gib completely removed.)  Figured out how to use the taper attachment:  How to put it in neutral (as if it weren't installed).  Ready to move it about 7 feet into position.
> 
> 
> Thanks


Edit:  just saw your post above so maybe you already found this. 

Here is full details of my VFD install on the PM 1440TL, should be nearly identical. I used existing contractors and followed the basic steps from @mksj.


----------



## xyz

BladesIIB said:


> Edit:  just saw your post above so maybe you already found this.
> 
> Here is full details of my VFD install on the PM 1440TL, should be nearly identical. I used existing contractors and followed the basic steps from @mksj.


Thanks.  I recall seeing it before, but could not find it.  So, thanks for pointing it out to me.  I'll review it before doing my VFD.


----------

