# Tap, and die handles



## Aukai (Nov 24, 2018)

Looking for recommendations for tap, and die handles, I saw a Gearwrench set that looked interesting. Most I've seen are Chinesieum quality, even in the sets now.
Thank you.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 25, 2018)

Tell me what you want or need . I have a few ...................................dozen .


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## mikey (Nov 25, 2018)

One of the most useful tap handles I have is from Walton; called a piloted spindle tapper. They're just a high quality tap handle with a shaft sticking out the back. The shaft goes into a chuck to keep a tap straight. Drill the hole, countersink and then tap without moving the part and you're assured the tap is straight. Walton no longer makes these so you either have to find NOS or make your own.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 25, 2018)

Mike might empty one of my Vidmars before he's done !!


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## mikey (Nov 25, 2018)

mmcmdl said:


> Mike might empty one of my Vidmars before he's done !!



Glad to help!

Aukai, if mmcmdl has both sizes, grab them. They are high quality tools that are no longer available. I use them on the mill, lathe and drill press.


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## Moper361 (Nov 25, 2018)

I have the same opinion of the Chinese tap handles are not nice I've had a few over the years but now I've just been on the hunt and junk yard sales for a few older P&N Australian tap handles with steel body not magnesium ,I scored three tap handles with a few other bits today for 30 bucks AUD even though second hand so long as the thread and the jaws are in reasonable condition these are far superior to the cheap Chinese ones


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## mmcmdl (Nov 25, 2018)

So I picked the lathe out that I wanted in here at work . Clausing Medosa 13-40S . They are moving it in soon . I'll tool it up with my personal stuff and I will be able to get rid of my larger and smaller stuff . Got a nice BP in my work shop , plus a full blown machine shop 50 feet away ! I really don't want a shop at home anymore , just don't need it . What I need and am looking for is 4-5 mechanics / machinists . 

I do have the opportunity to pick up that little jet lathe and WMI mill/drill and a bunch of smaller machines which I may do . I could put them in a small space . But I do not need 35 chucks , D1-8 , L0 , L00 , DA , CA , CXA etc tooling any longer !


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## Aukai (Nov 25, 2018)

Thank you for the responses, got a DRO project coming up, and my handles suck, even some of the NOS Craftsman had switched to cheap. I will be waiting to see what Dave has.


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## Nogoingback (Nov 25, 2018)

eBay is full of older quality tools from companies like GTD (Greenfield Tap and Die), Card, Starrett etc.  The last two die stocks I've 
bought were 10 bucks each, and are in essentially new condition.


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## Bob Korves (Nov 25, 2018)

Vintage Greenfield tap handles and die stocks are top of the line, IMO.  I also have a small Starrett tap handle for machine screw taps that is very nice, beautifully made.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Nov 25, 2018)

I have had a German ratcheting tap handle for almost thirty years. While I didn't use it every day, I almost did. Canadian Tire sold them under their own name ,Mastercraft, but weren't marked as such. There weren't cheap, so for home I bought a knockoff from BusyBee. That lasted one use. I bought another one from Canadian Tire. Now I'm retired, I shouldn't be able to wear out two. I find good tap handles at the fleamarket, but have never found a good 1" die stocks. I have even bought a couple of new made in USA ones that I think the Chinese might be able to improve on.


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## Aukai (Nov 25, 2018)

I really like seeing the name brands to look for it helps the search process a bunch, thank you.


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## Nogoingback (Nov 25, 2018)

Here you go:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vermont-Ta...-Diam-420522/132587547962?hash=item1eded56d3a

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-GT...h=item214d182aee:g:RQAAAOSw2ptb-pEM:rk:8:pf:0


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## kd4gij (Nov 25, 2018)

Aukai said:


> Thank you for the responses, got a DRO project coming up, and my handles suck, even some of the NOS Craftsman had switched to cheap. I will be waiting to see what Dave has.




Machine castings are a breeze to tap.


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## Cooter Brown (Nov 25, 2018)

I hate most die handles I'm putting that on the project list.......


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## kd4gij (Nov 25, 2018)

This it the type I have on my short list.


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## P. Waller (Nov 25, 2018)

MSC, from import to Red Box and everything in between.
Choose your price https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn...ies/Tapping-Tools/Tap-Wrenches?navid=12106018


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## Aukai (Nov 25, 2018)

Thank you for the links, very useful..
Another question, why are dies hex, or round? I have both, but never figured out why that was.


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## Nogoingback (Nov 25, 2018)

*dies - ICS Cutting Tools*

https://www.icscuttingtools.com/Dies.htm
Carbon Steel Hexagon Rethreading Dies are designed for rethreading damaged or jammed threads and can be used to work in places where round dies can not be used. They are not intended for producing new threads on unthreaded bars, bolts, or pipes and will perform all of the same tasks as (HRD) Hex Rethreading Dies.


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## P. Waller (Nov 25, 2018)

Aukai said:


> Thank you for the links, very useful..
> Another question, why are dies hex, or round? I have both, but never figured out why that was.


Round split dies are adjustable and are used for producing threaded parts, thread a sample then measure it and adjust the die accordingly.
Hex dies are often non adjustable and are mostly used for cleaning and deburring existing threads, they are easily rotated with a simple wrench by maintainence mechanics.

Often in a machine shop one will go to the threading die storage for a particular size and lead and find several marked DIE NOT SET, this means that it hasn't been used or that the last person to use it did not measure the finished thread likely due to loose commercial tolerances. If the customer is going to gauge a threaded part make sure that it is in the range specified.
More often then not a standard round split die will produce an acceptable thread, if however the customer uses very close ring gauges for final inspection all bets are off.


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## Aukai (Nov 25, 2018)

Great information NGB, and Mr Waller, thank you. I am slowly getting educated,,,,,, at a late age.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Nov 25, 2018)

There are machinists who will give a better answer, but here is my understanding. Hex dies are for the home handyman or the auto mechanic. They are basically for rethreading. There are also hex shaped thread chasing dies as well, and I think every manufacturer makes his own judgment for outside sizes. Best used with a crescent wrench, chuckle. They are tight and will clean up threads to the point of almost under sizing them. In maintenance we used them a lot to fix bugged up threads. There are round dies with out splits, one size fits all sort of thing. And there are round dies with splits, they take die stock with three set screws. On the first pass the split is left open, then on the next pass the closure is adjusted to the fit you wish. The most common round sizes are 1" and 1  1/2", but there are smaller and larger.


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## RJSakowski (Nov 25, 2018)

My original tap and die holders were included in a Craftsman set many years ago aqnd continue to serve me well.  I also have a full set of die holders covering 3/4" round to 2" round dies, probably from Travers or WTC.  More recently I acquired the two sizes of Irwin/Hanson in post #16 above.  They will accept a 3/8" ratchet which is useful for larger taps.  I also made a supersized tap guide to fit them.  It has a 1-1/4" workinhg range rather than the 1/2" range of the commonly available taps.  Finally, I recently bought a three piece set of Tee handle tap wrenches on sale from HF that are surprisingly decent quality.
https://www.harborfreight.com/3-piece-t-handle-tap-wrenches-38560.html


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## Aukai (Nov 25, 2018)

I have no shortage of Tap, and die sets NOS kromedge, Irwin Hansen, drill hog, Snap On thread chasers. Seems like some redundancy, most are HSS


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## Bob Korves (Nov 25, 2018)

Hex dies and round dies have both been made in different styles for cutting threads and for straightening damaged threads.  The real differences are in the geometry of the cutting edges.  Thread cutting dies cut and remove metal, and have sharp positive rake cutting edges to do so.  Thread straightening dies are designed to re-form existing threads.  They are designed to not remove metal, if possible, but rather to push it aside, re-forming and straightening the threads.  To find out which type you have, look at the cutting edge geometry, not whether they are hex or round.  Hex and round die shapes are chosen for the desired method of holding the die, for a nice square entry to the rod with longer opposed handles, or to be held with a socket or wrench in difficult access situations.  Different trades often do better with different dies, and that is why we often see auto mechanics with hexagon dies and/or repair chasers.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 25, 2018)

Mike . Here is what I pulled from the garage . Haven't been down to the shop yet , but if you see something you like ……………...I'll throw it in the box ! These are all old , no Chinesium here !  Read up on the difference from round to hex dies above . Some cut while others "push" . Call them machinist dies vs. maintenance dies . HSS vs. high carbon etc . Depends on what the job is as always .


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## Moper361 (Nov 25, 2018)

mmcmdl said:


> Mike . Here is what I pulled from the garage . Haven't been down to the shop yet , but if you see something you like ……………...I'll throw it in the box ! These are all old , no Chinesium here !  Read up on the difference from round to hex dies above . Some cut while others "push" .


Nice little collection that ,I would not mind a couple of the die handles ,


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## mmcmdl (Nov 25, 2018)

And I also possibly might have a ton or so of taps and dies , as hard as that is to believe !  I swear , you pack stuff away , and it multiplies over the years !


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## tcarrington (Nov 25, 2018)

Aukai - OTOH, depending on the size of the threading you are doing, you might find Joe Pie's tip to be useful






I use these, shop made holders and who doesn't need another project?, since I am generally making small parts with #2 to 1/4 inch threads. This way you can always have the tap in a holder, it doesn't take up much room in the box, ready to go. For larger threads you might like holders to allow power-tapping, but I do agree with all the good advice above, a good quality tap wrench is a thing of beauty and necessity.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 25, 2018)

Mike , your next phase , when time is money .


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## mksj (Nov 26, 2018)

Nice collection of tooling mmcmdl, one of those facing and boring heads is on my short list one of these days.

I have been collecting tap and die tooling through the years, but it is getting harder to find decent tools that will last. Almost everything I have in tap and dies is vintage stock. I like the older (and new) Starrett and older General T tap handles. The General T handles, you want the older stock which NOS  made in the US. The later handles are made in India and are junk, same goes for Greenfield. The older General T handles are available in both ratchet and non-ratchet.  I have the ratchet ones, useful for tight spaces, but they are getting harder to find. I also have a smaller Starrett (93A) T handle which works great. I have Starrett and a few other US NOS tap wrenches. I purchased a newer Greenfield Tap wrench and it was absolute junk and got returned. I couldn't find any decent older wrenches and ended up getting a Starrett 91B. I also have a larger older USA made Greenfield #8 tap wrench which is great, but vintage tools are getting harder to find and pricey.  I also have a few tap extensions which come in handy. I made my own tap and die holders for both my mill and my lathe. 

I primarily run round dies because they are adjustable, which I prefer. I also have an older set of double hex dies from Snap-On which are adjustable, but replacements are getting harder to find and expensive. Holders for the round dies are nothing special, but the older vintage ones are far better. I have purchased taps/dies lots on eBay of mostly new round dies and various taps, but also like to buy the 3 set boxes for the most common taps that I commonly use. I always keep backups, because you know they are going to break when you are in the middle of a project. I  discard the taps if they get a twist to them, they tend to fatigue with repeated use and will break.

I don't have the time to go tool hunting, and I do not have the room to store all the extra stuff. So I buy less and usually to pay a bit more, but get only what I need.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-GENER...S-164-166-LOT-OF-2-ORIGINAL-BOXS/113358132053
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GENERAL-16...T-T-HANDLE-NO-2-TO-2-TAP-USA-NEW/281802072994


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## mmcmdl (Nov 26, 2018)

mksj , it's a hard sell these days as to real tools vs. disposable . I'll take my 40 year old " not pretty " tooling over whatever , whomever sells what nowadays . Most of what is sold today is junk , throw away , expendable . cast vs forged , etc . It's called progress .


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## Downwindtracker2 (Nov 26, 2018)

Here 's the gem I was talking about   https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-2-in-1-ratcheting-tap-0587202p.html#srp  I find old English tap wrenches nice, too.


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## psgflier (Nov 26, 2018)

Aukai said:


> Looking for recommendations for tap, and die handles, I saw a Gearwrench set that looked interesting. Most I've seen are Chinesieum quality, even in the sets now.
> Thank you.



I got a GearWrench set a couple of years ago. I like the handles, they're ratcheting, a little on the sloppy side, but feel good in the hand and are nice for tapping in a space where you can't get full rotation. The dies are hex and made for cutting threads, not re-threading or chasing. The kit came with taps and dies for #8 to 3/4 in course and fine , 1 to 18 metric in different pitches, BPT to 1/2 and NPT to 1/2{taps only}. The taps cut over and the dies cut under so they make a real sloppy fit, especially when used together. The 45 year old Craftsman set I inherited make a lot nicer threads, and fortunatly will work in the Gearwrench handles. I wouldn't buy the Gearwrench set again and would have sent them back if I hadn't waited several months to use them after I got them.


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## Aukai (Nov 26, 2018)

Thanks DWT I have been looking at that on Ebay.


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## MrWhoopee (Nov 26, 2018)

mikey said:


> One of the most useful tap handles I have is from Walton; called a piloted spindle tapper. They're just a high quality tap handle with a shaft sticking out the back. The shaft goes into a chuck to keep a tap straight. Drill the hole, countersink and then tap without moving the part and you're assured the tap is straight. Walton no longer makes these so you either have to find NOS or make your own.



I have a pair of these, they are the best. I use them all the time in both lathe and mill.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Nov 26, 2018)

Make sure you get the made in Germany one, there is a made in China clone. I tossed the made in China after one attempt. Those are Canadian dollars, worth about .75 USD. If you are looking on Ebay for used ones,  look check the British site. they use to make ones nicer than Starretts. British post isn't too bad. But you Americans are spoiled with your air parcel post.


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## Aukai (Nov 27, 2018)

I looked on Ebay for the spindle tapper, all made in India, and not sure wheres.....I'll be patient. Everyone has had great input, thank you.


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