# CARBIDE TOOLING???



## riversidedan (Mar 23, 2021)

I believe these are carbide tools that came with my mini lathe, thier 3/8 x 2/3/8 and fit perfect in the tool holder. thiers some  writing that sez ar6 C6 on all of them
whatever that means..................
anayway i heard some guys like'm and some dont, whatever. as you can see thier flat on the work end, so dont know if thats thier on purpose or something needs to be done  for use. they seem to be good so would like to use them if possible


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## JimDawson (Mar 23, 2021)

Those are just standard right hand 3/8 shank (ar6), carbide grade C6, good for general cutting.

Normally they need a bit of touch up before use.  They never seem to be ground quite correctly, need more front and side clearance.


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## T Bredehoft (Mar 23, 2021)

The three tools that I can see are for cutting right to left. To supply a very poor similie, using carbide tools on your lathe would be like putting a Chrysler Hemi on a tricycle. It might fit, but it would be wasted. 

You need a heavy duty motor high revolutions and and a heavy lathe on a solid foundation. 

Carbide is great for production, heavy cuts, high rpm, etc. Hobbyists are not after 100 parts per hour, (or whatever) which is what carbide is good for. 

I remember a three spindle Gisholt machine in a factory I worked in, turning disc brakes, spraying cast iron chips to the next production line across the aisle. Yes there were shields, but there were gaps in them, too. I don't know how fast the spindles were turning, but as the tools (two roughers, two finishers) approached the end of their cuts, the  machines almost doubled the RPM to keep a constant surface feed. These carbide cutters would last an entire shift, the machines turning out 1600 parts per shift. I know, I ran a manual balance downstream from  one of them for a week. Balanced every part.


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## riversidedan (Mar 24, 2021)

sounds like we best keep using the 1/4  inserts and  HSS


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## Dabbler (Mar 24, 2021)

Your included brazed on carbide C6 tools will be fine for cutting aluminum and brass on a low HP lathe -  if you make the cutting surface and corner sharp with a diamond file.  For cutting steel in a mini lathe, HSS will give you a lot better results, once you get the knack of making the angles right for the job.


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## riversidedan (Mar 24, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> Your included brazed on carbide C6 tools will be fine for cutting aluminum and brass on a low HP lathe -  if you make the cutting surface and corner sharp with a diamond file.  For cutting steel in a mini lathe, HSS will give you a lot better results, once you get the knack of making the angles right for the job.


good point .........I got these with the lathe and hate throwing anything away that can be used..  Seeing as the cutting ends are flat be nice to know how to make them usable, dont have a problem doing it just dont know how........


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## BladesIIB (Mar 24, 2021)

You will need a green silicon carbide wheel to sharpen them. There are some examples of tool designs on this forum. The simple way to think of it for staring out is make sure the cutting edge makes contact with your part and nothing else. Think of how it will sit I. Your holder on center in the lathe. What direction it will travel and grind away clearance so the cutting edge hits the work. There is more to it but that is a basic start.


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## T Bredehoft (Mar 24, 2021)

riversidedan said:


> seeing as the cutting ends are flat be nice to know how to make them usable,


Instead of placing the left side square with work, lean it a bit to the right, so the back of the front edge is away from the work. Us another tool to face the finished face.

Or ignore the  premade and unfinished carbide tools and grind a usable HHS tool.


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## riversidedan (Mar 24, 2021)

BladesIIB said:


> You will need a green silicon carbide wheel to sharpen them. There are some examples of tool designs on this forum. The simple way to think of it for staring out is make sure the cutting edge makes contact with your part and nothing else. Think of how it will sit I. Your holder on center in the lathe. What direction it will travel and grind away clearance so the cutting edge hits the work. There is more to it but that is a basic start.


need to clarify, the carbide piece is flush with the tool itself, so your saying the carbide needs to protrude from the tool??  if so by how much?


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## BladesIIB (Mar 24, 2021)

Not necessarily protrude. Just be the leading edge. Don’t have to grind much. Check out the pic and how this contacts the part you would be cutting.

Edit add:  the more you sharpen it the more the carbide will blend with the tool it was braised to. Eventually I will grind away all the blue paint under that carbide edge and it will just be a curve from the grinding wheel from carbide tip to tool bottom.  Both on the side you are looking at and the front edge you can’t see against the round bar being cut.


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## erikmannie (Mar 25, 2021)

I bought a couple of these and tried them. I went back to HSS and indexable carbide pretty quickly!

I did use one until it was dull. I do not have nor plan on getting a green (silicon carbide) wheel, so I am sticking with HSS and indexable carbide.

For your sized lathe, working with HSS tool bits will provide the smoothest ride possible.


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## riversidedan (Mar 25, 2021)

BladesIIB said:


> Not necessarily protrude. Just be the leading edge. Don’t have to grind much. Check out the pic and how this contacts the part you would be cutting.
> 
> Edit add:  the more you sharpen it the more the carbide will blend with the tool it was braised to. Eventually I will grind away all the blue paint under that carbide edge and it will just be a curve from the grinding wheel from carbide tip to tool bottom.  Both on the side you are looking at and the front edge you can’t see against the round bar being cut.


If im right looks like I need to grind away the red tool itself to expose the carbide


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## martik777 (Mar 25, 2021)

I only use those for heavy interrupted cuts on rough hard material

I  switched from HSS to these inexpensive inserts and holders:








						Machifit 7pcs 12mm Shank Lathe Boring Bar Turning Tool Holder Set with Carbide Inserts
					

Only US$34.99, buy best 7pcs 12mm Shank Lathe Boring Bar Turning Tool Holder Set With Carbide Inserts sale online store at wholesale price.




					www.banggood.com
				




They work great on my South Bend 9A even at low RPM like in the 200's

You can buy the set or individual holders. I buy the inserts by the box of 10 each on aliexpress for $4-5/box

I only use HSS for form tools and where very fine cut is needed (<.003")


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## riversidedan (Mar 25, 2021)

erikmannie said:


> I bought a couple of these and tried them. I went back to HSS and indexable carbide pretty quickly!
> 
> I did use one until it was dull. I do not have nor plan on getting a green (silicon carbide) wheel, so I am sticking with HSS and indexable carbide.
> 
> For your sized lathe, working with HSS tool bits will provide the smoothest ride possible.


I hear ya, have been using indexable thats been working out real good, but still waiting on the 1/4 HSS  to show up.........were still gonna mess with these red carbide ones for the expereince


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## BladesIIB (Mar 25, 2021)

riversidedan said:


> If im right looks like I need to grind away the tool itself to expose the carbide



All in how you look at it. The carbide braised on is the “tool” the mild steel it is braised to is just the holder. You will shape the carbide tool as needed and grind away as much of the tool holder as needed to give you the relief you need from what you are turning. Very similar to inserts and holders except the insert holder is already perfectly shaped as is the insert itself. For these you are doing the shaping of both parts together.


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## riversidedan (Mar 25, 2021)

martik777 said:


> I only use those for heavy interrupted cuts on rough hard material
> 
> I  switched from HSS to these inexpensive inserts and holders:
> 
> ...


Ive been looking at those from that seller, how long did they take to show up??


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## riversidedan (Mar 25, 2021)

BladesIIB said:


> All in how you look at it. The carbide braised on is the “tool” the mild steel it is braised to is just the holder. You will shape the carbide tool as needed and grind away as much of the tool holder as needed to give you the relief you need from what you are turning. Very similar to inserts and holders except the insert holder is already perfectly shaped as is the insert itself. For these you are doing the shaping of both parts together.


sorry, that was clear as mud.........................so what I need to do is grind away the red part so the carbide part is exposed ...........  I say that cuzz the carbide piece is flush  with the shank so it must need to protrude some for cutting


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## martik777 (Mar 25, 2021)

Banggood is usually 2-4weeks but they charge more. Aliexpress is the cheapest but shipping is from 2-8weeks with maybe 5-10% never arriving.
I track all my orders with a reminder when they should arrive to ensure I get a refund before it's too late. 
Some of Aliexpress tooling gets sent quickly from Canada/USA  warehouses but there's no way to know.


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## Jimsehr (Mar 25, 2021)

riversidedan said:


> Ive been looking at those from that seller, how long did they take to show up??


I have been a machinist for over 60 years. Look closely at my avatar and you can see the form tools I hand ground to form the balls inside the cube. So I know how to ground tool bits. The carbide tools you show should be ground before using. But that said you can use both carbide and hss tools in your lathe. For most facing and turning I use carbide. But I also use hss often. Many home shop machinist never learn how to sharpen carbide so they don’t like or use it. 
Jim


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## BladesIIB (Mar 25, 2021)

riversidedan said:


> sorry, that was clear as mud.........................so what I need to do is grind away the red part so the carbide part is exposed ...........  I say that cuzz the carbide piece is flush  with the shank so it must need to protrude some for cutting


Sorry I am not doing a better job helping here. Your red carbide tools from your original pic are just like the blue one in my pic only smaller.  They will need to be ground before first use. Just like a new chunk of HSS you have to grind it before first use. Yours look like they have some angle not totally flush and yes you will remove some of the red and blend the Carbide tool into other Metal when grinding. Essentially you are grinding it just like a HSS tool. Think of it as all one piece but unlike HSS when the carbide portion is all ground up the rest you just throw away. HSS you can use to the very end.

Edit added link - if you jump to 40:00 minute point in this video you can see me grinding the blue tool from my earlier pic. Maybe that will help more than my pic.


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## riversidedan (Mar 25, 2021)

BladesIIB said:


> Sorry I am not doing a better job helping here. Your red carbide tools from your original pic are just like the blue one in my pic only smaller.  They will need to be ground before first use. Just like a new chunk of HSS you have to grind it before first use. Yours look like they have some angle not totally flush and yes you will remove some of the red and blend the Carbide tool into other Metal when grinding. Essentially you are grinding it just like a HSS tool. Think of it as all one piece but unlike HSS when the carbide portion is all ground up the rest you just throw away. HSS you can use to the very end.
> 
> Edit added link - if you jump to 40:00 minute point in this video you can see me grinding the blue tool from my earlier pic. Maybe that will help more than my pic.


couldnt really see a closeup of the tip but looked like the carbide was either flush or  hung over the shank a bit...

 Moving along, the more I Iearn about these carbide tools the more am liking indexable and insert tools  for thier simplicity atleast for now but thanx for the input.


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## BladesIIB (Mar 25, 2021)

Here are some pics of several of them ground for various things. Radius, turning and threading. Indexible are easier for sure and when using a DRO they are repeatable in set up when you turn them as opposed to every time you sharpen these you have to reset. Inserts are also great for roughing. That said, you can often get better finish especially on light cuts with braised carbide.  And you can customize them for things like a large radius. As you can see in these pics the first sharpen you likely end up with some overhang, just depends on the angle you want. The more you sharpen or in the case of the radius tools there is no overhang just angle up to the carbide cutting edge.


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