# New to Me: Index 845 Vertical Mill



## Ulma Doctor (Jun 15, 2013)

i found a vintage Index 845 Vertical Mill on CL the other night. she was within 50 miles!!!
 i went up and took a look at her and fell in love all over again.
I'd like to introduce you to Beatrice, my first mill purchase. She's a little bigger than the other girls. She's pushing somewhere in the range of 2,500 pounds maybe a scotch more .




i just got her home and have to do some rearrangement of the contents of the garage.
it's gonna be like putting 5 pounds of shinola in a 2 pound bag:lmao:

now for the fun part, i gotta move stuff to move in bigger stuff!!!
i'll have more pictures as the beast is moved!!
thanks for looking!!


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## Metalmann (Jun 15, 2013)

Sweet older machine.

You won't get any vibration problems with Beatrice.:winner:


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## ScrapMetal (Jun 15, 2013)

Nice find!  

FYI - Wells-Index is still in business and they've been great helping me with my questions (and some parts) for my 860.  Looks like they've finally updated their website a bit - http://www.wells-index.com/

-Ron


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 16, 2013)

in my hunt, i found a piece of information. Index was bought out by Wells in 1971.
my machine was manufactured before 1971, it still bears the Index Serial Plate.
Beatrice's serial # is 13466 model 845
i have yet to find a table with the years of manufacture.
I have registered the serial number on Vintage Machinery dot com . But i'm finding there isn't a lot of info uploaded to the net on the old girl. i have run across a couple army training manuals which will be helpful, but they are mainly for other models.
i'll need to get the original or copy of.


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## Tamper84 (Jun 16, 2013)

Very nice!!!! You find some cool stuff!!!!!! 

Chris


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 16, 2013)

Ok, ....wait for it..........YOU SUCK!.......but in a very cool way. Nice score.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 17, 2013)

Tamper84 said:


> Very nice!!!! You find some cool stuff!!!!!!
> 
> Chris






> Ok, ....wait for it..........YOU SUCK!.......but in a very cool way. Nice score.





> Thanks Chris and Greg!!
> i'm a tool junkie through and through, i keep finding these old tools nobody loves anymore.
> I hate to see a good tool or machine go to the boneyard.
> But, i think my obsession with machinery has faded into hoarding.
> ...


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## Tamper84 (Jun 17, 2013)

Ulma Doctor said:


> Thanks Chris and Greg!!
> i'm a tool junkie through and through, i keep finding these old tools nobody loves anymore.
> I hate to see a good tool or machine go to the boneyard.
> But, i think my obsession with machinery has faded into hoarding.
> ...



Hoarding huh??? Do you need to schedule and intervention???:thinking:  For your health I will load up the truck and trailer and head out.)  :lmao::rofl:
I need to take a class on finding stuff!!!!

Chris


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 17, 2013)

Tamper84 said:


> Hoarding huh??? Do you need to schedule and intervention???:thinking:  For your health I will load up the truck and trailer and head out.)  :lmao::rofl:
> I need to take a class on finding stuff!!!!
> 
> Chris



:rofl:
if i need an intervention, you'll be the first i call!!!
you don't really need a class,
 do what i do... just spend 2-3 hours you should be sleeping, looking on craigslist and EBAY for junk!!!
you'll find it eventually!!!


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 18, 2013)

Well guys she's in and running finally!!!!!!hew:












i put a 5/8 dovetail cutter in and went to work on some 13mm 6160 square bar to see what i can cut and get a general idea of how the beast acts under a heavy cut. 
Well let me tell you brother , machining aluminium is child's play for this machine.
feeding speeds are really smooth in all ranges i'm really getting to appreciate the level of engineering that went into the construction of this heavyweight. this is one heavy duty ol' girl .
she's got just a few battle scars,but, i don't think she was abused much.
 i can still see original scraping from the factory on quite a few of the scraped surfaces which i thought was extremely pleasant. it's another sign of it's general condition as being good in by best estimations.

Thanks for reading feel free to post comments!


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## Tamper84 (Jun 19, 2013)




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## woodtickgreg (Jun 19, 2013)

Tamper84 said:


>


Agreed, wish I had the room for a full size mill. That ones pretty cool and not one you see everyday. It looks like it has lots of travel on all axis. Looks like all it really needs is some tlc and maybe some paint. Nice find.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 24, 2013)

in messing around and just having a great time with Beatrice.
through some research, i was able to find out that she is equipped with NMTB-30 tooling.
i'll be honest by saying i have not worked with any NMBT-30 design tools
my experience has been with R8 and MT2 equipped mills. 
i just read moments ago, NMTB-30 seems to be preferred by many. one of the main reasons being the toolholder is more easily removed. there is a lot more surface area on the cone of the NMTB-30.
i got a lot of toolholders with her, some really big ones too.
 i was pleasantly surprised.

if anyone has any info on the NMTB-30 stuff or info on the 845, i'd be glad to hear about it!!


i updated this paragraph, after Ron, had told me of my mistake:footinmouth:


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## Tamper84 (Jun 24, 2013)

Gotta ask what's CAT 30 tooling? Like you I have only seen mt and r-8 tooling. I'm glad your having fun with the ole girl!!!!

Chris


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 24, 2013)

Tamper84 said:


> Gotta ask what's CAT 30 tooling? Like you I have only seen mt and r-8 tooling. I'm glad your having fun with the ole girl!!!!
> 
> Chris



well, Chris
 the NMTB30 is on the left, r8 on the right


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## ScrapMetal (Jun 24, 2013)

Mike,

That's not exactly "cat 30" tooling.  It predates the "cat" stuff and it's commonly referred to as "NMTB 30" (sometimes "NST 30").  The "cat" stuff doesn't have the extra cylinder shape on the small end of the taper.

The two are NOT interchangeable so be careful when buying more tooling.

Hope that helps,

-Ron


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 24, 2013)

thanks for the heads up,:footinmouth:
 i think my tooling needs are covered, for a while!!
i was and still am ignorant, but i'll make it a point to find out the differences
i appreciate the feedback and feel a debt of gratitude
:man:

mike)


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 24, 2013)

i have found out the cat30 and the nmtb-30 share the same angle.
 it appears the drawbar differs between them. 
The Cat 30 stuff is used in high end and low end cnc mills, as Ron said earlier, the nmtb is a predecessor to the cat30.

Thanks Ron, for the clue!!!
it was obvious i didn't have one:lmao:


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## Tamper84 (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks for the pictures, never seen anything like that before!!!

Chris


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 26, 2013)

yep Chris,
when i saw the pile of tool holders i got with the mill, i had no idea what type they were.
i looked at the side of one of the better made tool holders and saw it said type 30 etched into the side of it.
i assumed it was cat 30 because i typed in type 30 on a google search and the cat 30 tooling came up.
the tools are very similar in shape but look slightly different.
one thing is for sure, you will never twist a NMTB 30 tool like you can an R8 or a MT.
 it has 2 locking dogs that prevent rotation of the tool holder in the spindle.


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## Ajax123 (Jun 27, 2013)

Hi Mike

This is Ray, I was in the hand scraping class with you. Like your mill I saw something similar on CL in Fairfield today.  I would love to pick up nice big mill like that, just do not have room now.  And to much work at the office and at home.  Are you going to put your new hand scraping skills to work on it?  

Ray


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 27, 2013)

Hi Ray, good to see you have joined us here on the forum!!
thanks for reading the thread, i hope you enjoy it!
I found this little beauty in Elk Grove.
i don't really have room for the beast either, but i have move some of the pile around to make the shop workable.
i can't really say how good the mini mills are, i have never used one. 
I have heard they can be quite useful once you get them squared up and tightened up, you may wish to consider that route...
i have seen a few of the combo mills recently pretty cheap, i may add.
I haven't equipped myself for scraping as of yet, i have a line on a surface plate to pick up next week. i'm totally stoked!!!
i'm going to have to construct a table for the 3 x 4 plate, i'll detail that build in another thread to amuse the readers!
I'll probably finish scraping the compound rest for my south bend lathe before i move over to the mill.
i don't want to break the mill down until i have the lathe running. having both machines out of commission would be a real inconvenience, iv'e had to do a lot of work with my mini lathe and the old rockwell drill press to keep workin'.
i don't want to repeat if i can avoid it , the right tool save precious time!!
Thanks Ray for looking,
i sent a friend request, keep in touch
mike)


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## toag (Jun 27, 2013)

i was envious when i saw the 845... now i am down right jealous that is is 30 taper.  that is one stout mill.

nice find... you suck!


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## 8ntsane (Jun 27, 2013)

Mike
Congrats on the new mill. :thumbzup:
That should be all you need in a home shop, and be able to take heavy cuts as you say.
Looking at the pics, it appears to be in nice shape, and taken care of.

Nice Score :thumbsup:


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 27, 2013)

toag said:


> i was envious when i saw the 845... now i am down right jealous that is is 30 taper.  that is one stout mill.
> 
> nice find... you suck!




thanks for the compliment!
sometimes the sun shines on a dogs butt, i just got real lucky on this one.
iv'e been looking for a mill for years. i only got serious about finding one about 6 months or so ago.
the mill is a beast and fears no metal i'm sure of that. 2 hp on the spindle is plenty for any work i'll ever do .
one of the tool holders i have goes up to 1.250" id. the largest tool i have is a 2 fluted endmill that is 2" od and has a 1" shank.
i can only imagine how big the 1" shanked tools get.
thanks for reading!!

- - - Updated - - -



8ntsane said:


> Mike
> Congrats on the new mill. :thumbzup:
> That should be all you need in a home shop, and be able to take heavy cuts as you say.
> Looking at the pics, it appears to be in nice shape, and taken care of.
> ...



Thanks Paul,
i'm very pleased with her. i can't wait to get some shop time in.
I've been running around the last few weeks and haven't got to do much fun stuff.
hopefully i'll get a short break after the 4th, but i'm not going to hold my breath!

thanks for looking!


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## Ulma Doctor (Jul 2, 2013)

I was looking for a copy of the operation/ parts manual for Beatrice and came across an Army Manual for the Index 747vs.
although it's a different model, a lot of the functions are the same. For anyone interested the manual can be downloaded or just viewed @

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...GKN8U1VVjJsR2-jxm3k7pyA&bvm=bv.48705608,d.cGE.

it's a from a site called Liberated Manuals. They specialize in Military Manuals of all sorts.
 i have no affiliation with them, all manuals are free to download!
i hope the info helps someone!
mike)


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## Ulma Doctor (Jul 10, 2013)

i used Beatrice for her first business project involving the cutting keyway of a stainless steel 3 phase motor shaft.
for those interested click the link below to see the thread

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/16466-3-Phase-Motor-Shaft-Modification-For-Profit!


as always, thanks for looking!!)


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## idjeffp (Jul 24, 2013)

Congrats Mike on your WI-845 addition! I also have an 845... got it used locally some 4 yrs ago. I've got a Hitachi SJ-100 vfd driving mine and love the adjustability of it. Mine is also an NMTB-30 spindle and has had X & Y converted to ballscrews sometime in the past. Someone also converted the X axis drive over to a BP drive. After searching for a while, I just spent the money with Rick Robison over at Wells-Index for the manual as well as a replacement missing Z-axis crank handle. Some good folks over there.

Jeff Pfeifer
Boise, ID


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## Ulma Doctor (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks for the reply and thanks for reading.
these 845's are some serious machinery, i hope you enjoy yours like i do mine!!)
mike


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## jamie76x (Jul 24, 2013)

I have had a few 845's over the years and the main mill in my shop now is an 845. Its 2700 lbs with that gearbox power feed and it makes a bridgeport look like a barbie doll.  You have a hell of a machine.  If some one has not had the spindle reground to R-8 do yourself a favor and send the spindle to Index and have it done. Its well worth the $250 for the time and money you will save in tooling! Not to mention your bearings willtake less of a pounding from trying to knock the tooling out of the spindle. The B&S #9 really locks in tight and you have to donkey punch the drawbar to get the tooling out.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jul 24, 2013)

jamie76x said:


> I have had a few 845's over the years and the main mill in my shop now is an 845. Its 2700 lbs with that gearbox power feed and it makes a bridgeport look like a barbie doll.  You have a hell of a machine.  If some one has not had the spindle reground to R-8 do yourself a favor and send the spindle to Index and have it done. Its well worth the $250 for the time and money you will save in tooling! Not to mention your bearings willtake less of a pounding from trying to knock the tooling out of the spindle. The B&S #9 really locks in tight and you have to donkey punch the drawbar to get the tooling out.




Thanks jamie!!
 She's a heavyweight for sure!! 
i'm glad i didn't get serious about finding a mill until a few months back.
 i probably would have gotten a BP, not that anything is wrong with a BP...i'm just glad i held out for the INDEX.

this unit has the NMTB-30, a little better than the R8, you can't easily twist the NMTB30 because it has 2 locking dogs on the tool holder. 
the toolholder gently comes out without a fuss, no more than a little shake of the drawbar. It's a real pleasure!!
thanks for reading and commenting!!

mike)


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## jamie76x (Jul 24, 2013)

Sorry I didnt see that it had the 30 taper. thats a very good machine.....  Large handwheels and dials and the 6" of quil travel make thos machines very nice to work with.


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## Tenaya (Feb 16, 2015)

Hi,

Sorry to re-open an old thread, but I am about to take possession of an Index 845 (weather permitting). Given that I live in the machinery desert of the southern portion of the central time zone, I feel lucky to have found one within a reasonable traveling distance (around 80 miles).

Like yours, my new acquisition has an NMTB-30 spindle and comes to me with about a dozen tool holders, including a nice Jacobs chuck, a older bridgeport-style boring bar and, again like yours, some fairly huge end mill holders. Mine is S/N 14246, a little bit newer than yours.

I was wondering if you were ever able to find a place to download the user's and/or parts manuals? I found the TM-9-3417-213-14 Army PDF on the web, and although it's quite helpful, it is for the Wells-Index 747VS, not the Index 845. As I'm sure you know, there are differences between the two models, some of which are substantial, like the old gearbox style power feed on the 845 compared with the Servo style on the 747VS. 

The mill was under power when I went to look at it and I was able to see that the power feed works properly on the X axis. The seller told me that it originally also had Y axis feed, driven from the same feed unit, but when it quit working some years ago (decades?), the Y axis feed parts were removed and subsequently lost. I'd like to better understand how the feed controls work and how practical it might be to restore the Y axis feed.

Any assistance you can offer will be greatly appreciated,

Tenaya


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## 4GSR (Mar 12, 2015)

All you have to do is make a draw bar adapter to fit the  CAT 30 holder that would have 1/2-13 thread in it and stick out the same length as a NMTB 30 holder has.

EDIT- Ouch! old thread!!!

The gear box on the 845 is the same gear box as they used on the older 645 mill like I have.
The only draw back I have is it's not variable speed!  I screw up and threw away the 3-phase motor that was on the feed box and replaced with 1-phase motor.  Had I thought about it more, I could have put a VFD on the feed motor that would allow variable speed.  But I didn't.
I did put a VFD on the  spindle motor and that  has been nice!

Get a hold of Well-Index and obtain a manual for your mill.  About $50.


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