# Well, the day finally came, I placed my order.



## Steve R (Oct 2, 2020)

After months of searching, asking, reading & looking at different brands and models (ACRA 1440TE & LCM50 was a very close second). It was tough decision but you either have to make a decision or you will still be in the same place as wondering what you should do 5 years later. I finally settled on what to get. I ended up going with the PM1440TL (With VFD converter, QCTP) and the PM949TS (With VFD converter). Was going to go with the PM1054TS but waited too long and it went "out of stock". Going with the Easson 12-C DRO on both. 
I feel I have pretty good tool selection for the lathe at this time, but this is my first mill. I would like to know what are some of the your "gotta have" milling tooling, or even for the lathe. Will be working with aluminum, steel & stainless steel.


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## Norseman C.B. (Oct 3, 2020)

Your asking a bunch of enablers what to buy ?
Of course you gotta have* everything* there is for your new toy !!!...............


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## Larry$ (Oct 3, 2020)

I have a Jet 9x49 mill I bought used. Came with a cheap import vice. Didn't take long to figure out I needed a good vice, bought a 6" Kurt. A dial test indicator, I bought HSS 2 flute end mills for AL and 4 flute for steel. I have some carbide also. A simple edge finder, deburring tool, bracket to mount a dial indicator to the  spindle, set of strap clamps, I have two sets of parallels, one is thin for when I need to clear a through hole. A drawbar wrench and brass hammer combi, drill chuck, an inserted shell mill, fly cutters, boring head and a decent set of boring bars (not the cheap Chinese set!) A set of V blocks for the vice, 123 blocks, set of spindle collets, make or buy a collet rack, a small stop that clamps on the vice jaw, Make or buy a stop that mounts to the table or back of the vice, a set of screw machine drill bits, a set of Silver and Deming drill bits, spotting drills, make a couple of machinist jacks, a box of acid brushes, a needle oiler for cutting oil  and one for WD40, Rapid Tap, a tap follower, a 90 degree angle plate, some "Can't twist" clamps, some tool makers clamps. I've probably missed some "necessities." 

Other  things I've added as the need/desire arose: 8" rotary table that I found out was too small and made an 11" dia. top plate with more T slots. A chuck for the RT, a tail stock for the RT, spin indexer (takes the same 5C collets as your lathe collet chuck,) square and hex 5C collet blocks, set of angle blocks, a 5" sine bar and set of gage blocks, a set of gage pins, a set of over and under chucking reamers, set of taps designed for power tapping, radius and chamfer end mills. . A centering indicator for the mill hasn't been as useful as I had thought, I just use the 1/2 function on the DRO. I got tired of cranking the knee up & down and put a power feed on it, a luxury item, but also used for drilling deep holes. 

It is possible to make an internal keyway w/o broaches but it is way faster and probably more accurate with the broaches, but expensive. Lots of things fall in this category. So as you can see, the machine was the cheap part. Most of my stuff is Chinese or Indian, most works but some is junk.


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## mmcmdl (Oct 3, 2020)

Steve R said:


> I feel I have pretty good tool selection for the lathe at this time, but this is my first mill. I would like to know what are some of the your "gotta have" milling tooling, or even for the lathe.



You came to the right place ! We love to spend other people's $$$$ .


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## Steve R (Oct 3, 2020)

What I have on order for mill. PM's Ultra precision collet set, power feeds for x y & z, power drawbar, high precision 1/8 - 5/8 chuck, 52pc clamp set, BS-1 dividing head, 2 & 4 flute end mills.
Already have outside mic set up to 6" and several indicators including a test indicator, angle blocks 30-60-90 & 45-45-90, brass, aluminum & plastic head hammers (mechanic by trade).
Have on order Kurt DX6 vise and a set of soft jaws, set of 123 blocks, 1/8"x6" thin parallel set, 2" boring head (.0005), 4 pc set wiggler edge finder.


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## davidpbest (Oct 3, 2020)

*This link* may help you with the power feeder installs.   In my shop I work mostly with stainless and aluminum, and I've standardized on a few things that keep the mill tooling sorted:  2-flute end mills are always HSS or Cobolt, 3-flute are carbide but reserved for aluminum, and 4+-flute are for steel and stainless.  I have found it less expensive in the long run to buy name brand quality end mills - Lakeshore Carbide is a great source although there are plenty of others I could recommend.  The stuff from China I avoid like Covid-19.  There are excellent end mills coming out of Japan and Israel too.  

If you haven't worked with stainless before, you're in for an education.   The stuff is gummy, so the tools need to be sharp with positive rake, and the feeds & speeds are really important - you have to keep the tool cutting at recommended removal rates or you will work-harden the stainless (too wimpy) or burn up the cutter (too aggressive).  For drilling stainless I use only 135-degree cobalt drill bits.  

On the lathe, I use indexable tools with carbide inserts, and generally have three different insert geometries (although not every geometry/grade in stock for every tool):  positive rake honed sharp for aluminum, positive rake stainless grade for SS, and neutral rake for everything else.   If you want insert tool suggestions for the lathe let me know - I have just about all of them thanks to suggestions from users here on this forum.   Lots of people have difficulty parting (including me when I started), so spend some time perfecting that aspect.   I'm attaching my suggestions on parting operations and the "best" practices I have learned the hard way.  

Good luck with your new equipment.


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## 7milesup (Oct 3, 2020)

Sounds like you have a lot of it covered.  David, as usual, comes through with many good suggestions.
My suggestion, if you don't already have them, is Noga dial indicator holders, especially the bottom fine adjust model.  ---> Noga bottom fine adjust <---


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## Steve R (Oct 3, 2020)

I did order 2 sets of the PM's BXA master turning/boring set and 2 of their threading sets. I have 10 of the 250-301 & 5 of the 250-302 tools holders coming. Will probably end up ordering more a little later on. Want to get one setup steel and one for aluminum.  I have been lookingat/researching cutters for doing surface work but have not ordered anything for that yet. Haven't decided on a tool for doing tram indication yet. I have seen were people have made theirs using a long arm to get out closer to the ends of the table and the short dual indicator units. Need a precision level yet, I have read were the black box type are too sensitve or won't hold a zero, looking at the Starrett 98 in either 8 or 10 inch. Would like some advice from hands on users on these items that I still need to get.


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## mksj (Oct 3, 2020)

I have a ERL-1340, and the BXA is a bit small on it. You might check with QMT, but I would probably go with a CXA on the 1440TL. On the level, the Starrett 98 is not accurate enough for leveling the lathe, precision level, one in the range of graduated 10-second accuracy; one division equals 1/2 thousandth (0.0005) of an inch per foot, or 0.04mm per meter.


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## Steve R (Oct 3, 2020)

I did go with the CXA QCTP.


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## mksj (Oct 3, 2020)

I would probably go with CXA tooling, I use 3/4" lay down insert thread tooling for internal and external threading.


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## Steve R (Oct 4, 2020)

Dave
  If you want insert tool suggestions for the lathe let me know - I have just about all of them thanks to suggestions from users here on this forum.   Lots of people have difficulty parting (including me when I started), so spend some time perfecting that aspect.   

That would be great if you want to share that information.


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## Larry$ (Oct 5, 2020)

Steve R said:


> I did order 2 sets of the PM's BXA master turning/boring set and 2 of their threading sets. I have 10 of the 250-301 & 5 of the 250-302 tools holders coming. Will probably end up ordering more a little later on. Want to get one setup steel and one for aluminum.  I have been lookingat/researching cutters for doing surface work but have not ordered anything for that yet. Haven't decided on a tool for doing tram indication yet. I have seen were people have made theirs using a long arm to get out closer to the ends of the table and the short dual indicator units. Need a precision level yet, I have read were the black box type are too sensitve or won't hold a zero, looking at the Starrett 98 in either 8 or 10 inch. Would like some advice from hands on users on these items that I still need to get.


I've got a Polish made 10"? level that has been excellent. I bought it when I was setting up CNC machines. Yes, it is very sensitive but isn't that what you are looking for in a level used for setting up? While they are not cheap they are not as expensive as the similar Starrett models. For inserted tooling try to stay with as few different inserts as possible. Good inserts are expensive! The slitting saws from Slovakia have been very good. I don't have enough experience with most tooling to know durability comparisons. I dull the ends of  of end mills long before the sides and can sharpen the ends multiple times before I end up trashing them doing something stupid. Some stainless is terrible about work hardening wile others are not. (Learned that the hard way!) Actually much of what I've learned has come from mistakes. I have no formal machine training other than YouTube. Joe Pie,  ThatLazyMachinist & Math &  provide quality educational material.


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## Steve R (Oct 19, 2020)

The machines arrived today. Got them un-crated and set in place. There is NO way and 2 ton engine hoist (cherry picker) could be used to remove them from the crates. I don't think once on the floor you would be able to move them. The legs would be too far out in front of the hook on the hoist. I had the local lumber yard to come over with their forklift to unload and was going to my hoist from there. Once the crates were taken apart I the lumber yard come back with the forklift to move in place. Now to clean them up. What seems to work the best, I have seen where some use mineral spirits?? Got the power feeds, power drawbar and DRO to install on the mill. I have the DRO to install on the lathe. I went with Easson ES-12C with 3 axis on both units, magentic scales with the 1uh heads for all the scales. Not sure if I will use the 3rd axis on the lathe but figured better to have and not need/want then to need/want and not have it.


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## 7milesup (Oct 19, 2020)

Congrats!! 
Nice looking machines.  I especially like that lathe.


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## davidpbest (Oct 19, 2020)

Steve R said:


> Dave
> If you want insert tool suggestions for the lathe let me know - I have just about all of them thanks to suggestions from users here on this forum.   Lots of people have difficulty parting (including me when I started), so spend some time perfecting that aspect.
> 
> That would be great if you want to share that information.


I'm in the process of authoring a guide to insert tooling for lathes.   If you'd like an advanced copy that is incomplete, let me know.   I hope to have the final draft complete by next week.


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## Steve R (Oct 19, 2020)

davidpbest said:


> I'm in the process of authoring a guide to insert tooling for lathes.   If you'd like an advanced copy that is incomplete, let me know.   I hope to have the final draft complete by next week.



Yes I would like to look at it, even the draft issue.


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## ArmyDoc (Oct 20, 2020)

Steve R said:


> After months of searching, asking, reading & looking at different brands and models (ACRA 1440TE & LCM50 was a very close second). It was tough decision but you either have to make a decision or you will still be in the same place as wondering what you should do 5 years later. I finally settled on what to get. I ended up going with the PM1440TL (With VFD converter, QCTP) and the PM949TS (With VFD converter). Was going to go with the PM1054TS but waited too long and it went "out of stock". Going with the Easson 12-C DRO on both.
> I feel I have pretty good tool selection for the lathe at this time, but this is my first mill. I would like to know what are some of the your "gotta have" milling tooling, or even for the lathe. Will be working with aluminum, steel & stainless steel.


Can you tell me why you chose the PM1440TL and PM949TS over the ACRA 1440TE and LCM50?  I've been considering the ACRA LCM50, haven't really started looking at lathes yet.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 20, 2020)

davidpbest said:


> I'm in the process of authoring a guide to insert tooling for lathes. If you'd like an advanced copy that is incomplete, let me know. I hope to have the final draft complete by next week.



David,
I’m interested in seeing the draft if you’d share with me also. 
Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Steve R (Oct 20, 2020)

ArmyDoc said:


> Can you tell me why you chose the PM1440TL and PM949TS over the ACRA 1440TE and LCM50?  I've been considering the ACRA LCM50, haven't really started looking at lathes yet.


I had visited a Tech School that had several mills and lathes in different types & brands. Understand these are students using these machines, and there were different brands. They had an ACRA mills but they were a V2 or VM something. I did see a new Sharp that was the LCM50 just with the Sharp name at a dealer, it looked really pretty. One of the things that instructor told me was that they rebuild the variable speed heads on the mills often and that kind of stuck with me. I had also had members of the forum mention that too.  So I decided to go with the TS version and use a VFD. Also the TS is reported to run quieter.
Mill PM VS ACRA
The PM949 is about 1/2 way between the LCM42 & LCM50 on the x travel but has a longer y travel then the ACRA. Really pretty close to the same specs. I was looking at the PM1054TS but that was sold out before I could get my order placed so I went with the PM949TS. ACRA has 1 year warranty and PM has 5 year. Otherwise it was pretty much a coin toss to me.

The tech school had some of the ACRA TE1440 lathes and just gotten 3 more new TE1440 to replace older other brand lathes. They had good experience their TE1440 lathes and got more machines that operated the same, easier teaching students. So I got to actually see them.

PM TL-1440 VS Acra TE-1440
TL = 12 speeds VS TE = 8 speeds 
TL = 2.55" spindle bore VS TE = 2.060"  do I need a 2.55 bore, I don't know, the damn crystal ball doesn't work, but if I do, I have it.
TL = 2.47" tailstock VS Acra TE = 2"
TL = 5 year warranty VS Acra TE = 1 year
Other specs were close between the machines.

I could not find anything bad on PM's customer support when I searched the web and only kept hearing/reading good things.

Do I think ACRA makes a very good mill & lathe, yes I do. I wanted to have both machines the same brand and the PM TL-1440 edged out the Acra TE-1440.  Now that I have both the TL1440 and 949TS in my shop do I wish I went with Acra, No. If I went with Acra, would I have wished I went with PM? Probably only if I needed to stick that 2.5" shaft in the head stock or needed a few more speeds.


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## Firstgear (Oct 23, 2020)

To get my mill off the trailer at our Maine home I bought a 2 ton gantry.  I will assemble it to lift the mill crate off the trailer, pull the trailer out then drop the crate on some car wheel skates.  I can push it into position and lift off the skates with the gantry and down. Easy!


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## MERLIncMan (Oct 31, 2020)

Sorry for the late reply.
Has it got an R8 spindle? Then you need _everything_ with R8 in its name.
I like ER32 - collet blocks, spindex, chucks....
I got a BS-0 DH, that was "supposed" to have a B&S-7 taper, but has MT2, which is wonderful as I treat MT2 the same way as R8 - if it is in the name, it is a needful thing. Sad though, I would prefer a BS-2 Universal DH for helical milling but 1. It's a major cost (800+), and 2. it's a B&S-10 taper 

Find your tapers, buy everything with that taper, and everything that bolts on to everything with that taper.
Convince yourself that workholding is a universe unto-itself, and undertake to conquer that universe.
Recognize that metrology (and metroloscopy) is a vital-shop on its own - it will cost about as much as both a mill and a late. Get the things that tell about the tiny things!
Fowler makes a rather neat optical comparator with changeable reticles. Not an LED, but it comes with a C battery powered flashlight (are C batteries even still made??)

Seriously though, look at it in categories: Taper, Work-holding, Metrology.

When you've gotten all that stuff, then... start over


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