# What type of mill for a small shop



## skipd1

I would like to add a milling tool to my shop now that I have my lathe finished. I really don't have a lot of room and the Bridgeport sized mills just won't fit without serious reorganization and sacrifice of something already there. I have been toying with looking for a Atlas Horizontal Mill and later adding a small vertical mill to accompany it. Any thoughts as to types or brands? I don't want to be tied to real small "hobby" projects and I want to be able to mill steel.

Regards
skipd1


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## Mid Day Machining

Check with Grizzly or Jet. That have Bridgeport type machines that are smaller. I almost bought a 1960's Bridgeport about 8 months ago, but I had to settle for a Tormach PCNC1100.


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## chief

Here is my Small Machine shop 12 X 16 with my PM-25-MV  milling machine and my 1979  12 X 36  Jet lathe,


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## mitsue

I like the horizontal mill I have. It is narrow and doesn't need any headroom. I ned to find a vertical attachment like a bridgeport "M" head that will mount on the over-arm or (good luck with this part), find a head that slides over the vertical slideway and is driven from the spindle. My mill is a 1930-40ish Brown & Sharpe model 0Y (zero/wye). It sits on a large "ShopFox" mobile base and tucks up against the wall where the black cabinette is in the first pic. I have a single car garage and can still drive in.

Setting up a horizontal mill make me think a bit more due to normally using verticals in shops but I find I can do more odd/long parts with it than a vertical


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## sic semper tyrannis

clausing 8520....love mine.


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## Rbeckett

Skip,
Have you given any thought to a 3-in-1 machine or one of the Rong Fu clones?  They are not the best possible mill but do a pretty good job for their size.  I have a 3-in-1 and can manage to get pretty decent parts made that are as accurate as I am willing to take the time to be.  Bolton, Grizzly and Harbor all have simila units.  May be worth a look to avoid a full sized mill and add some othe functions to your shop.  Just a thought.
Bob


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## skipd1

I have really not considered the 3:1 machines, what all can they do and will they mill steel without much problem?

Skip


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## Charley Davidson

I just bought a Burke #4 horizontal mill with a vertical head attachment, it takes up a rather small foot print but I can't tell you much if anything about performance as it is still in the back of my buddies (Benny) truck. Were gonna set it up today so I should be able to tell you more tonight.


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## Rbeckett

Skip,
My POS Harbor Freight 5980 will mill steel, aluminum and stainless with no problem.  It will also turn a 13X20 pices of stock in the lathe too.  It is all manually operated with no power anything, so I have to go a little slower and measure more often.  If I am patient enough I can get within .0005 pretty consistently.  So a newer more precise 3-in-1 will do a bit better on power feeds and nicer control systems.  Bolton has one for a good price as does grizzly and the HF I think is a model 44142.  They all require a little tweaking straight out of the box, but once you get them dialed in the are a real pleasure to run.  I dont advocate keeping a 3-in-1 as your only tool, but it is a good stepping stone for a shop that is space and funds restricted.  As you grow and your shop has mre room you can sell off the 3-in-1 after you get a seperate lathe and mill.  Those are just my thoughts but if you need to get access to a couple of good 3-in-1 sites PM me and I will link you to the two I am a member of.
Bob


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## skipd1

*Type of Mill for small shop*

As I already have restored an Old 1930 Model O SouthBend Heavy 9 on a 4 1/2 ft bed. I really don't see the need for a 3:1 machine. I like the horizontals, especially the older ones that could maybe have a vertical head added in the future, and seem to have a smaller footprint. I just am so new the the hobby that all the old machines around kinda confound me and its difficult to look on Ebay or Craigs list and really know if what's advertised it the right machine for me. And then there's tooling issues as well!!  I guess just talking and learning from all of you, with a little time, I'll find as good an old mill as I did with my Lathe.

Skip


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## brucer

cincinnati toolmaster, dont remember which model number but they had one that was about 3/4 the size of a bridgeport and it weighed about as much, nice small heavyweight mill..


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## chief

I keep it clean and nice Because I have a Shop Vac. and a Wife that loves to Clean up after me, Yes I Know I have it made, But it took a long time to get here,:lmao:


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## skipd1

I am more and more impressed with the Burke 4, I have noticed an Atlas Horizontal for sale with some tooling for around a grand. I don't think the Atlas is as robust as the Burke tho?? I would love to find a burke #4 with some tooling!!

Regards

Skip


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## chief

I am verry happy with the PM-25 it dose everything I want it to do, I do take smaller cuts with it, than if I do with my big old Index mill.
and I don't get in a hurry anymore, and that could be because of Old Age,  I am not happy with the company I bough it from, Quality Machine Tools,
Or the Guy there by the name of Matt.  and I will not deal with them again. But all in all the machine works fine.


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## Phil3

I think a small knee mill is good.  I too can not really fit a Bridgeport.  My mill is knee mill, but it is a horizontal and vertical with two separate motors driving each.  Probably about 600 lbs, but guessing.  It is Rotex, which is a horizontal, but has the optional vertical head on it (similar to Rusnok).  Something the size of the Rotex seems to complement my Southbend 9 pretty well, but admit I would not mind having a 6 x 26 vertical mill.

Phil


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## bigmac

A #4 Burke mill is a good little work horse. The belt drive power table feed does surprisingly well. Mine also has the vertical head, which is handy, but I try to work horizontal whenever possible. Just works better. These mills were sold as bench models weighing over 400 lbs. with an available floor pedestal which most seem to have. Total weight topped 700 lbs. They were sold with several motor drives with the most common ( I believe ) being a Master gearhead motor around 1/2 hp. Mine ( 1942 vintage ) also has Timken spindle bearings, not sure if all of them do. Hope this helps someone.


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## sgisler

Steve Seebold said:


> Check with Grizzly or Jet. That have Bridgeport type machines that are smaller. I almost bought a 1960's Bridgeport about 8 months ago, but I had to settle for a Tormach PCNC1100.



Steve, how do you like your Tormach?


Stan


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## Splat

How big of a "small shop" are we talking?  I came close to buying a Grizzly G0704 until a Johansson B12, brother to the Atlas 8520, came up on Ebay the day before I was to head to Grizzly.   The G0704's a good small mill, or you could go with something like a small knee mill from Grizzly or a Top Tech that Penn Tool sells here.


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## kd4gij

I have had my G0704 for almost a year now and have been very happy with it. It does everything I need it to do. I have cut A2 tool steel, stainles. and of corse lots af Alum. I think it is probly the best bang for the buck out there. Of corse my shop won't suport the weight of a bridgeport.


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## skipd1

Having started this thread back in August I am amazed at all the great responses and comments. After quite a while researching and looking I finally found a Clausing 8520 in Western Michigan. What a road trip from North Dakota out there and back in 2 Days!! A little over 2000 miles round trip.
I love the machine and am slowly learning its capabilities as well as mine. I would like to add a small horizontal mill like a Burke #4 at sometime in the future. Acquiring the tooling, vises and associated stuff is now keeping my wallet thin. Thanks everyone for the great info, you guys were definately a help in my decision and purchase.

Regards.
Skipd1


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## Splat

Skip, you know what they say, right?  No pics, it didn't happen! :biggrin:

Congrats on finding and getting the 8520. It's a great mill and more than adequately bridges the gap between full size B'port and benchtop mills.


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## keltg

Thank you for starting this thread, and secondly i have to thank every member that told a bit of what they liked or didn't. I am in the process of shopping to buy a Mill as well as a Lathe, I have been looking at the table tops since space is pretty limited in a 10 x 14 shop. I have been leaning towards the busy Bee CX 600 or the CX 601. Need the extra bed length and travel of the 601 to do my gunsmithing on with the fewest headaches as possible with a small machine.


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## dmakseyn

chief said:


> I am verry happy with the PM-25 it dose everything I want it to do, I do take smaller cuts with it, than if I do with my big old Index mill.
> and I don't get in a hurry anymore, and that could be because of Old Age,  I am not happy with the company I bough it from, Quality Machine Tools,
> Or the Guy there by the name of Matt.  and I will not deal with them again. But all in all the machine works fine.



Hi chief,
What did you find problems with at Quality Machine Tool? I've talked with Matt at great length about lathes and specifically the PM25 mill.
During the last call I had with him he mentioned that he was sourcing better motors and controls for the PM mills.
He's always been a fountain of information and seemed like an honest and straight forward guy to deal with.
I've also seen and read very good things about him on other sites as well.
Thanks,
Dave


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