# table repair with spray welding - bad idea?



## Sblack (Nov 7, 2019)

I have a deckel fp1 that has a couple of dorks on the mill table - maybe 20 or 30 thou deep. Not enough to harm the usefulness of the machine, but enough to annoy a picky owner.  I was watching a yt video with Abom79 and he was experimenting with different powders from a spray welding rig. I wondered if that was a viable repair method for fixing dings in a table top, or will the heat turn it into a banana and cause more problems than it solves? The deckel mill table is essentially a webbed angle plate that is bolted to the Y axis. It is dead simple. It might be a bit more rigid than say a knee mill style table because it is deeper. But it is also rare (in North America) and I don't want to mess it up. Has anyone tried this? Is there a preferred metallic powder to use so that it is not too hard and has a reasonable color match? I suppose I could fill it with moglice or a hard silver solder, but this seemed like an interesting option, me being unburdened by any experience with the process. But the little alarm bells in my brain are saying "this may be a really stupid idea!".


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## Latinrascalrg1 (Nov 7, 2019)

I have no idea on your idea for the spray welding although it does sound interesting but as you theorize, may be risky!   Why not use one of those metal filled epoxies? No risk if you dont like the outcome!


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## JimDawson (Nov 7, 2019)

You have to get the workpiece pretty hot to spray weld.  I would not do that to a mill table.  The dings are there to remind you not to do that again


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## pontiac428 (Nov 7, 2019)

This is not a stupid idea at all, @Sblack .  It does, however, come with some very serious challenges.  In order to apply powder, the whole table would have to be heated in a furnace.  I've built my own preheat furnace with a propane burner and a pile of fire brick, but temperature control and even heating are not ideal.  You may still have warping, but if you machine the table top and scrape in any mating surfaces you might get back to square.  Make sure you talk to your product rep about which powder to buy for your application- the metallurgy, machineability, and work hardening properties of powders vary and are specific for the application.  But yeah, this one task that spray powder is made for.


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## benmychree (Nov 7, 2019)

WITH THE SHALLOW NATURE OF THE BLEMISHES, IT MAY MAKE SENSE TO SIMPLY HAVE THE TABLE TOP REGROUND; TALK TO A MACHINERY REBUILDER ABOUT IT. DEFINITELY DO NOT WELD/SPRAY ON IT.


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## Sblack (Nov 7, 2019)

I thought of machining it, or having it planed, but then there is less meat for the T-nuts and that tends to distort the table. I was hoping to find out that this had been done somewhere successfully, but I am not hearing that. Perhaps just epoxy and I will bolt my vise down where the damage is  Thanks for the responses and if there are any more of you out there who might have tried this I would like to hear from you. Perhaps I will try it on an old beat up angle plate or something.


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## Cadillac (Nov 7, 2019)

File down some shavings of a like material and mix with some epoxy stone it after you’re done will never know


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## jbobb1 (Nov 7, 2019)

Do you already have the equipment to metalize? I did tons of "spray welding" for over 30 years. Preheating is important, but another important factor is surface preparation, especially on a flat surface. Get it wrong and you've wasted your time and money.
Personally, I would consider one of the other suggestions.


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## Cooter Brown (Nov 7, 2019)

Just fill them with JB weld and maybe some steel dust.....


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## Cooter Brown (Nov 7, 2019)

benmychree said:


> WITH THE SHALLOW NATURE OF THE BLEMISHES, IT MAY MAKE SENSE TO SIMPLY HAVE THE TABLE TOP REGROUND; TALK TO A MACHINERY REBUILDER ABOUT IT. DEFINITELY DO NOT WELD/SPRAY ON IT.



I just talked to a machine rebuilder about resurfacing my Bridgeport table and he basically told me not to do it, He said I would have to chase about .003" all the way down to the knee... I would need to grind and scrap the whole machine and get new gibs just to get the table top flat again..... He then tells me to stone it to death and live with it.... lol


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## Bob Korves (Nov 7, 2019)

If the table just looks bad, and does good work, forget about fixing it, there is no reason to do so.  I tell people that have the 'arc of shame' on their drill press tables that they are restoring to clean up the table, and leave the arc of shame completely untouched.  Then get a Sharpie pen and write on the table "NOT MINE!" with an arrow pointing to it.  As long as the machine works well, forget about trying to cover up other people's mistakes...


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## Richard King 2 (Nov 7, 2019)

How about a few pictures.    I would advise NOT to spray weld it as I am a Professional Machine Rebuilder.   I have tried to spray weld Bridgeport tables after a spray weld salesman at a show told me how wonderful it would work.  I had him come out to the shop to do it for me.  The heat on a big casting draws out the heat as fast as you heat it and away from the spot.  Then you have to get it so hot in the area it warps the table plus where the cast iron and the spray meet, it gets hard as glass.   I did it 40 years ago and time and products may have changed (so you could call people who do it for a living, who get paid to do it and get a quote with a gaurantee).   I would think pre heating will peel the paint in the webbing, discolor the iron and warp it depending on how hot it gets.   If I saw what the dings looked like.  I could give you some advice and  guess,  that can be  happen online.  Like asking for advice on a lump on your leg from someone who has a wood lathe.  Spray welding To repair a visual ding could permanently screw up your machine.  With online forum advice, you have no clue if the advise is from a fake or a pro.   Especially when they make up some odd ball name and not their real one.  The Deckels I have seen and worked on are precision instruments more then a Bridgeport mill.


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## dbq49 (Nov 7, 2019)

If it is a work truck then it will get dings or badges of work accomplished.  DO NOT spray weld, fill with epoxy and it will be fine.  Heating and warping will only make you feel worse.  Use it and make more chips


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## Sblack (Nov 7, 2019)

Richard King 2 said:


> How about a few pictures.    I would advise NOT to spray weld it as I am a Professional Machine Rebuilder.   I..........The Deckels I have seen and worked on are precision instruments more then a Bridgeport mill.



Richard I was hoping you would chime in as I am sure if anyone would know for sure it would be you. So the tiny voice in my head was right...bad idea. I will post a pic tomorrow when I go to my shop. Thanks for your advice. I took your class in VT this year and enjoyed it.


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## tq60 (Nov 8, 2019)

Get high strength epoxy, a magnet and acetone.

Clean the hole well with acetone and use magnet to collect the powder by your bench grinder.

Dunk magnet with what it picked up in acetone to clean it.

Mix small batch of epoxy and thin with acetone and add the grinder powder and mix well.

Place drop of acetone into hole on table then add epoxy and work it into hole.

Add until it is just proud of surface.

Let cure for a week...

Now smooth it down to match surface and done.

Get good epoxy, not home depot stuff.

There is some made for repairing hvac coils that is real good stuff but they think so too, not cheap.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Downunder Bob (Nov 8, 2019)

I certainly would not spray weld it too many things to go wrong. If you really must repair it-use a high strength epoxy for repairing metal, like Devcon, or JB Weld etc.The repair will still be visible as it will be almost impossible to get a perfect colour match. 

You will need to make sure it's perfectly clean, preferably abrade the contact surface area, and maybe drill a couple of holes to get a good mechanical purchase or lightly undercut around the edges then clean with acetone or alcohol, slightly overfill, when fully cured, machine down to .001" and hand finish

'


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## Sblack (Nov 8, 2019)

BTW Richard I was "broken foot guy"


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## Richard King 2 (Nov 8, 2019)

I had a broken hand guy in Austria 2 weeks ago....have to send me a picture...lol   can't recall names much anymore....or feet....lol


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## Cooter Brown (Nov 8, 2019)

Mill the hole bigger and then make a plug for it from steel.... LULZ (please don't do this)

Drill and tap the hole then put a set screw in it....

In my old shop we had a term that we used to explain holes drilled in expensive equipment where they didn't belong, we called them Travis..... lol

He ran a 2" hole saw into a 4" Kurt vice until it bottomed out while trying to drill aluminum sheet metal.....

My friend still uses the vise it makes me cringe and nauseous every time I see it.....


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## redgrouse (Nov 8, 2019)

I concure 100% with Richard K ---  A Deckel is a precision tool, do this and you would wreck it ! I have used Eutectic metal spray for 40 + years and it works extremely well for certain applications but not this. My work is daily small but large items can be worked successfully, I have an acquaintance who used the same system to fix mainly very large engine parts - cylinder heads etc from power generators, ships and the like but these were heated in a furnace and all had to be refaced after the metal spaying was done due to warpage. 
Better to live with the marks and retain the precision !


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