# G0768 Or G4000?



## armytbone

Hi everyone, first real post here. Enjoying a little machining on a Sherline has led to some headaches with size issues, so I'm ready to buy a bigger bench top lathe. 

I'll be turning mostly brass rod and Delrin rod, 7-8 inches in length for most work. I imagine some longer work might be necessary sometime, but only on other projects that I dream up. For now, my focus is on brass and plastic. Occasionally I'll turn steel to make reamers or other cutting tools, but again, length shouldn't exceed more than 10 inches. 

A good compound slide is a must. Eventually I'll upgrade to a quick change tool post. I will have a need to chuck up pieces about 1.375" diameter to drill/ream the end. 

I narrowed my choices down to the Grizzly G0768 and the G4000. Same price. What are the real differences? The G4000 is much heavier yet has similar size capacities. Accessories are comparable, as are most of the specifications. Why is the G4000 130 pounds heavier?

Any thoughts? 

Thanks in advance!


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## GarageWrench

Hey armytbone, there both comparable in size, and given the size of both there are limits, if you can live with those limits I would go for the variable speed of the G0768, that is a great feature when making different cuts on the same piece of stock. Also like that you can slow that down to a lower feed speed and rpm. 

Thats my two cents, peace and grace man.


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## armytbone

Thanks for pointing out that the 0768 is variable speed! I missed it. That would explain some of the weight difference as the 4000 has the gearbox attached. Great point! Appreciated. 

On a side note, I was in the Westland area last summer. Played trombone as part of the fireworks concerts at Greenfield Village. Probably do it again this summer!


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## GarageWrench

Im ten minutes from Greenfield Village, one of Henry Ford's masterpieces, people come there from all over the world. I love that place!

I have an Craftsman 12x36, and to change speeds I need to change the belts on step pulleys'. (the G4000 has a gear box witch is very nice also). Its a pain sometime, and I'm no electrician but, I believe it would take a lot of money to convert to variable speed, and its also only 110 volt so don't think I can. 

Two things I would point out from that lathe is the lack of power do to the 110 volt and its feed rate is to fast, even at its slowest setting along with the speed (rpm). I guess thats the reason I would choose the G0768 over the G4000.

With that said, it gets the job done. Im saving for the PM1340GT


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## David VanNorman

If it was my dime I would go with the G4000 It is heaver built and you can cut a wider range of threads. Also I try to stay away from variable speed machines as I would think they might be more trouble. Just my two cents.


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## dave2176

Do the G4000. Quick change gearbox, power cross feed. In my not so humble opinion of course.


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## ch2co

G4000. just like dave2167 says, and my opinion isn't humble, just grumpy

CHuck the grumpy old guy


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## tomh

G0768 = 8" x 16"
G4000 = 9 x 19"   =  1" more swing  3'' longer bed length
the 4000 is a bigger and beefier lathe.
Any time you can go with a bigger lathe with longer bed go for it,  you will always benefit from it.
I don't know your $$$$ or needs so its hard to suggest anything, but if finances allow it I suggest the   10" x 30" or  11x26  size because it fits in the middle of the road not to big not to little.  Most true quick change gear boxes on newer import lathes start on 11 &  up lathes.
Hope you find what you are looking for and good luck.


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## tmarks11

Also think about the G0602 10x22.  That is a well liked model among hobbyists.

Given the choice of G0768 and G4000, I would actually go with the G0768.  Big isn't always better.

1. The 8x14 and 8x16 seem to get much better reviews (historically) than the 9x19 lathe.  The start of that was Bob Bertrand (Lathemaster), who first imported the 8x14 lathe about 15 years ago and gained quite a following who claimed it was more rigid than the 9x19.
2. Yes, the 8x16 has no QCGB.  But the partial QCGB on the G4000 still requires a lot of gear swapping.
3. The DC motor on the G0768 will give you less vibration.
4. The speed range is much better (low speed of 50 rpm on the G0768 is a lot more friendly for threading than the 130 on the G4000).

But I would still think about the G0602 if I were you.


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## abrace

I was looking at the G0602 myself, then I got talked into bigger, and bigger, and bigger, and ended up with the G4003G. Looking at it on the shop floor on the pallet it certainly looks like it is more than I need...but time will tell!


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## tmarks11

abrace said:


> I was looking at the G0602 myself, then I got talked into bigger, and bigger, and bigger, and ended up with the G4003G. Looking at it on the shop floor on the pallet it certainly looks like it is more than I need...but time will tell!


Nope. It is just the right size (for now). If you got room and budget, going for a 12x36 lathe makes a lot of sense (power, rigidity, full QCGB). But if you don't have room, the G0602 is a decent choice.  Heavy enough to do some real work, but the partial QCGB sucks.


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## armytbone

I appreciate everyone's comments. Forgive my speedy response. I just had refractive eye surgery and reading/posting is proving to be difficult. I have my screen font turned up to the max and it's all still a bit fuzzy!

The reason I picked those two Grizzlies to compare is they're the maximum footprint that I can afford in my basement workshop area. I have no garage, so my space is limited to the two workbenches I have already. 

The Sherline has proved to be a PITA when I need to turn 2 inch round stock. I have the riser blocks, but when I've turned the stock down enough, I take them out so I can use the compound slide more conveniently. The smallest inconsistency in my manipulation of the feeds is obvious on my finished product. That coupled with the limited size, small tools, and limited power of the Sherline led me to want a bigger lathe.

I looked at the Littlemachineshop.com booth at Cabin Fever Expo, and decided against their smaller bench top lathe (7x16). The feed wheels felt gritty and it looked/felt small. I've also looked at the Micromark 7x16. Nearly a clone. Because of size, the biggest I can fit are the two Grizzlies 0768 and 4000. 

So, to those familiar with the two:

Is the variable speed unit prone to wearing out? Is it quieter than the drive train in the 4000?

They both have 3/4 hp motors, so do they produce similar torque?

One of you mentioned a power carriage feed on the 4000. Isn't that the same function used in threading, so the 0768 should have it? Pardon my ignorance on that feature, since my experience is limited to the Sherline and a few brief encounters with a Smithy lathe/mill combo.

I'm looking for a clear advantage of one over the other, really. Like I said, I'm turning 2" Delrin stock right now, tapering and boring it. Once I have the process repeatable I'll move to brass. The only steel I'll turn is in the making of tools to ream certain inside tapers, most likely A-2 tool steel, no more than 1/2 inch diameter. My working with tapers means I need a good compound cross slide.

Those needs stated, does the extra weight and gearbox of the 4000 seal the deal, or does the variable speed control of the 0768 make it a better choice?

Thanks a ton!


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## tmarks11

yeah, getting a 400# lathe down the steps to the basement is a back-killer.  It goes back to buying what fits into the space you are using.

The variable speed on the lathe is a DC motor & controller (not a cone pulley/belt arrangement like a varispeed drive on a bridgeport). Prone to wearing out? No. Prone to bring up?  Not anymore, although the early models weren't reliable, but that problem was solved a few years ago, IIRC.

Power carriage feed: not always the same as threading.  Smaller mills use half nuts clamping on the lead screw to drive the carriage feed.  Larger lathes have a separate feed rod for longitudinal feed, and the half-nut/leadscrew arrangement is used solely for threading. You can tell by looking at both machine (G0768 and G4000), that since they do not have a separate feed rod, that they both use the leadscrew for carriage drive. 

And both G4000 and HG0678 do have power carriage feed (by clamping the half nut).  Neither has power cross feed (but you won't find that on a machine cheaper than  $2000).

So on to the battle:
1. DC motor=lower spindle speed= G0678 WINS!
2. Partial QCGB = G4000 WINS!
3. Larger mass = G4000 wins (293 lbs vs 166 lbs). 
4. More threading combinations available = G4000 wins (27 inch and 11 metric vs. 15 and 12 for the other).  That being said, both have all the most common threads (13, 16, 18, 20, 24, 32).
5. More feed rates available= G4000 WINS (18 vs 3!). hmmm.  Only 3 feed rates available on the G0768 (0.0037, 0.0068, 0.0071 ipr).  What gives with that?

ok, now I flip my vote. Given the choice of the two, I would go with the G4000.  You can always retrofit it with a VFD and a 3 phase motor at some later date to get slower feed rates.

Sure you can't find another friend to invite over to help you carry the G0602 (430 lbs) down your basement steps?


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## armytbone

Thanks again everyone! I'm going to order a G4000. It's decidedly the winner due to the extra weight and slightly bigger capacity. If you look at the published capacities, the 4000 has only a 1/2 inch or so more swing over carriage and bed. The spindles are the same and tailstocks very similar. It came down to the gearbox. Everything I've read leads me to believe that the variable speed motor and associated electronics might wear out more quickly than a gear set. It also seems as though more experience has been gained and shared in the world of the 4000 versus the 0768. Larger tool sizes too! 

Thanks again everyone! I might do a pictorial of receiving/unpacking/cleaning/assembly when it shows up.

-Todd


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## dave2176

armytbone said:


> Thanks again everyone! I might do a pictorial of receiving/unpacking/cleaning/assembly when it shows up.
> 
> -Todd


You better. Without pictures it never happened.


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## armytbone

Believe me, I know it! Went to a trade show last year, saw a new product, didn't take pics, made a post, and was berated because said product didn't exist. From delivery to set up, I'll document the arrival for everyone to see. I'll admit right now it will take some time. Grizzly told me a week or so for delivery. Lift truck service to the parking space in front of my townhouse.  Manual labor from there! 

Mineral spirits or kerosene? Oddly enough I'm an Amsoil guy, so bottles of synthetic lubricants are everywhere. Don't ask.... I'm thinking mineral spirits for degrease then some quality synthetic lubes for the ways and gears. I've switched all of my reloading equipment to synthetic greases and everything is silky smooth.


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## dave2176

We wouldn't berate you, just tease you until pictures were posted. We're all addicted to this stuff you know. WD40 is good for cleanup. Kerosene or mineral spirits too. For lube make sure it has enough stick that it doesn't wipe off easily. I use Vactra 2 on the lathe ways, open gear lube on open gears. I know there are a lot of synthetics with good properties.


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## armytbone

Finally the G4000 arrived. Because of the "blizzard" that shut down Maryland for a week, UPS freight couldn't deliver their backlog so my delivery got delayed by 4 days. 

Lift gate service to my parking space. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




Cracking open the crate revealed the drip pan, 4 jaw chuck, and plate bolted in separately. Two bolts held the machine to the pallet. 




A strong friend and I picked it up and hauled it down the stairs to my basement workshop. 

The cleaning ensued. I removed the carriage and compound and broke them down into individual parts, decreased with Amsoil Heavy Duty Degreaser (smells like oranges) and reassembled. Same with the tail stock. There was some hardened grease inside the tail stock taper, but it came out easily with a stainless brush. 

The biggest challenge was removing the hardened grease from the ways. The only product that worked was PB Blaster and a stainless brush. It looked like rust coming out of the grooves, but in the end, it's all clean. 

The chucks are still soaking in degreaser. I'll clean them with denatured alcohol tomorrow and reassemble them. 




Overall, it's turning out to look pretty nice. Once projects are under way, I'll post more pics. 

Thanks for the advice!!

-Todd


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ch2co

Welcome aboard!  Looks good sitting there on your tool cart. Remember to close the drawers whenever the lathe is running they are great swarf catchers.
Come to this site for any and all questions, there are no stupid ones. There are many well seasoned machinists here who are happy to help out.  
Then there are a bunch of newbies, myself included, who, if we don't know will look in and maybe learn a thing or two from your question. For which
we will owe our thanks to you.  Just be careful, wear safety glasses and swarf away.

CHuck the grumpy old guy


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## armytbone

I ended up moving it to another bench, both for stability and for better lighting. It's all degreased and broken in according to the instructions.

What I found:
- missing middle cross slide gib adjustment pin (that is driven by the screw which is set by a nut)
- paint flakes easily. Especially the drip pan. 
- many parts needed a touch from a fine file to remove chips that had not broken clean from the piece
- tool bits should be 1/2 inch to be secured by the tool post bolts. My collection of 5/16 are too small and sit below center of the workpiece.
- motor housing was pinging because it was being hit by a blade of the motor fan. Adjustment made, silent now.
- Chuck handle that you use in conjunction with the spindle handle (both removable) was machined horribly and is not a square peg. It does not fit into the chuck, not by a long shot. 
- Rust on various parts. Most of it is innocuous surface rust. Nothing that has penetrated.
- threads aren't smooth on all bolts and holes. It's hard to tell if the interference is from poor internal threading on subpar screws/bolts. I'm tempted to get a few from the local hardware store in a higher grade to replace the few that are terrible. 
- tailstock is very smooth in fit of taper and in feeding any tooling
- carriage moves with ease with next to no play

What I'm seeing that I'll be needing:
- quick change tool post
- 1/2 in bits
- matching Grizzly tan (and green!) paint
- lots of round stock

I'm surprised by how quietly this machine runs. There is going to be a decently big learning curve versus the Sherline. That little thing had two feed wheels. More on the G4000. Now I have lots to keep my eyes on! And all of those tools need 1/4 shims to fit in my new tool post.

Any ideas on an affordable QCTP? $100-125 is my target for a starter set.

Also, the compound, even after cleaning and leadscrew adjustment, is stiff. If I retract the compound too far, it is very stubborn to re-engage the leadscrew threads.

I'm envisioning a few initial mods to this machine:
- bolt with handle to secure gear cover instead of allen head bolt; makes it toolless.
- nut with handle to use for quick release tailstock instead of simple hex nut
- file chuck handle to square for chuck removal
- replace various nuts or bolts with better quality hardware

Work safely and enjoy your shop time.

-Todd


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## armytbone

Funny tidbit: the shipping manifest claimed this thing was 795 lbs! Umm, no. It's under 300, even with the pallet. Maybe Griz should reduce their shipping charge!


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## planeflyer21

armytbone said:


> Funny tidbit: the shipping manifest claimed this thing was 795 lbs! Umm, no. It's under 300, even with the pallet. Maybe Griz should reduce their shipping charge!



That there is a very substantial difference in claimed weight!


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## juiceclone

Enjoy .... your comment about trips to the hardware store for "real" nuts and bolts is soooo familiar :>)  But you will have a good piece of equipment when your "quality control" is completed.   Think I got my QCTP on eBeast for around $70??..  had to mod it a bit to fit but good after that.
Can't understand the weight thing ...definitely not kilograms or pounds ..griz may not know they are/being overcharged for shipping ??


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## TomS

Congratulations on your purchase.  Go to Steve Bedair's 9 x 20 website (http://bedair.org/9x20.html).  It's a great collection of mods and improvements that will make your lathe much more enjoyable and accurate. 

Tom S.


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## tmarks11

armytbone said:


> - replace various nuts or bolts with better quality hardware


Recommend you do some shopping on mcmaster-carr for those bolts.  Your local hardware store selection of metric fasteners might not be much better than what is already on the machine.


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## armytbone

I plan on ordering from McMaster Carr with a select of fasteners and such. My trip today netted me some taps and dies in the metric threads. The tiny compound gib and cross slide gib adjustment screws are 4-0.7 and most of the other stuff is 6-1.25 and 6-1.00. Just chasing the threads on the screws and holes smoothed a lot out of the adjustments. I also tapped the cross slide gib screw holes to full depth so I can just screw directly against the gib instead of pushing the pins, which one was missing anyway. 

Also ordered a new compound mount from A2Z.


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## TomS

armytbone said:


> I plan on ordering from McMaster Carr with a select of fasteners and such. My trip today netted me some taps and dies in the metric threads. The tiny compound gib and cross slide gib adjustment screws are 4-0.7 and most of the other stuff is 6-1.25 and 6-1.00. Just chasing the threads on the screws and holes smoothed a lot out of the adjustments. I also tapped the cross slide gib screw holes to full depth so I can just screw directly against the gib instead of pushing the pins, which one was missing anyway.
> 
> Also ordered a new compound mount from A2Z.



A few years back I had a G4000 which was extensively modified, AKA improved.  The adjustment screws pushing directly on the gib may cause it to lift.  One of the mods I did was replace the cross slide gib pins with ball bearings.  Worked for me.

Tom S.


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## armytbone

Ball bearings! Sounds like a decent idea. 

Today I disassembled the compound, since it was on top and the first thing to remove. Using 300, 600, 1200, 1500, 2000, 4000 grit paper on a granite block, I polished all surfaces that ride against one another. That not only included dovetails but the side of the gib that touches the dovetail, the front side of the mounting plate, rear of compound handwheel, and rear of the nut that holds the wheel on. Chasing threads for the gib adjustment screws helped me fine tune the feel. Silky smooth now with no play. 

Next will be the cross slide. Much bigger job. 

I compare this to polishing the slide/frame fit on a 1911. Easy does it. Slow progress until it's just right. 

I found that using Spyderco stones helped to get inside the dovetails. To those who don't know, the Triangle Sharpener is one of my most used polishing tools. 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## armytbone

After a few hours of interruptions, I got back to cleaning up the cross slide. Just a gentle honing took care of most of the grittiness. I used some Dykem blue to visualize where my high spots were. Lots of tooling marks from the factory, so I reduced those as much as I dared without removing much metal. Polishing the gib surface seemed to do the most work in smoothing out the motion. My final step was to coat all surfaces with Flitz and move the slide in and out a few dozen times. That effectively lapped it into closer tolerance. Finally I coated it with a thin coat of lubricant and reassembled. I also polished the back of the hand wheel, front of the bracket that holds the leadscrew, and the rear of the retainer nut for the hand wheel. 

Just waiting for the compound mount from LMS to show up to reattach the compound and get turning.


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## Ken from ontario

Hi Tbone, I'm  looking at a used G4000 and seriously considering it .it is actually a Craftex CT039 which is a Canadian version of the G4000, I was wondering  what your opinion of this lathe is , now that  you have own it for about a year?
Would you still recommend it? are there any surprises/disappointments ? the asking price for the  one I'm looking at is a bit on the high side, ($1200) but don't want to start negotiating the price if it is not the right lathe for me.
PLease let us know your opinion if you could.
Thanks.
Ken.


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## armytbone

The G4000 is a pretty good machine after some upgrades. Does the one you're looking at have any upgrades done to it? The QCTP and 4 bolt compound made the machine great. It has plenty of power for the projects I did in Delrin, aluminum, brass, and even tool steel. 

The disappointment/surprise side of my purchase was in the tool post. It's junk. Upgrade to a Phase II. Also, no reverse feed. If you plan on doing left hand threading, don't buy this machine. 

If you're considering this against another machine such as the 0768, this machine is heavier and bigger, which in the end is better for most things. Right hand threading is great with the quick change gear box, but speed changes do require shifting the belt and having clearance on the left side of your machine to open the door. 

If you have more specific questions, ask away! Would I buy it again? Probably so.


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## hman

Well, I *was* just going to write about a couple issues with the G4000.  But I kept looking deeper into the G0768 as well, and ended up with a pretty long post.  Hope it's of use to you!

I've happily owned two different G4000 lathes (two workshops in two states), for a total of 10 years now.  Sold one when I got a larger (12x24) lathe.  +1 on armytbone's comments about the 4-bolt compound and the tool post.  The 0768 looks like it has a more substantial compound mount, though according to the manual, you have to back the compound slide almost all the way off to get to the angle lock screws - could end up being inconvenient.  The tool post is the same POS on both lathes.

And yes, the 4000 does suffer a bit from a not having a "reverse tumbler" (which the 0768 has - "reverse feed" on the photo).  But there are lots of articles on the interweb about how to add one.  I'd added one to the lathe I later sold.  It's a fun project.  I suppose I'll be adding one to my current lathe "one of these days."

A few more minor irritations on the G4000 (and their solutions) -
• The lathe is a bit low to the chip pan for my taste.  Placed 1 ½" hardwood blocks between the lathe and pan.  Also extended the bottom of the back panel, to help control swarf.  The QCGB gear selector is now easier to use and cleanup under the lathe is easier.  The 0768 doesn't have a QCGB, so this probably won't be an issue.
• The back panel has a gap where it goes around the motor (near the chuck, where a good deal of swarf is generated).  No big deal, but unless you raise the lathe it can be a chore to keep the motor clean.  I was able to kludge a closure.  No idea what the 0768 is like in this respect, but I'd guess it's abut the same.
• The tailstock lock is just a nut, which requires you to keep a wrench handy.  There are several articles on the web about adding a lever lock.  I found a simple way to retain the wrench.  Check the thread, http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/lathe-tail-stock-lock-mod.57492/   My post, with photos, is at the end.  According to the manual, the 0768 has a locking lever on the back.
• The 4-jaw chuck that comes with the G4000 is kinda crummy.  You can buy a good one, but that's an added expense.  The 0768 has what looks like a nice 4-jaw
• The spindle of the 4000 has a somewhat uncommon thread - 39mm x 4mm pitch.  LMS sells threaded backplates.  I haven't found anybody else who sells backplates with this thread pattern.  With a threaded spindle, you have to be careful when running in reverse.  The 0768 holds chucks and faceplate to a fixed backplate with three fixed studs, nuts and washers.  This is good when running in reverse.  But finding aftermarket chucks might be quite a challenge!

Some possibly negative aspects of the G0768 -
• There's no QCGB on the G0768.  So you have to keep changing gears in the headstock ("end gears" in the manual).  Might not be an issue if you don't plan to do a lot of threading.
• There's no 127 tooth gear.  So all of the metric thread pitches will be inexact. Might not be an issue for short threaded parts, and wouldn't be an issue at all if you don't plan to do any metric threading.
• There's no separate power feed, as there is on the G4000.  You have to reset the "end gears."  This would be an important issue for me.  I don't do very much threading, but I use the power feed very frequently. 
• The G0768 is smaller (8" swing, as opposed to 9" swing), so it won't have quite as much capability/capacity (or power, for that matter).  You'll have to decide how important this factor is.

Finally, you might want to check this thread on the G0768 (if you haven't already!):
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/grizzly-g0768-8-x-16-lathe.36042/
.. might even want to PM one or more owners for their opinions, now that they've owned and used their lathes for a while.


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## Ken from ontario

Tbone, h man, thank you both for two informative and extremely helpful replies, I'm so glad you both took the time to reply  because  all I could find online is biased opinions and lots of fake praises, you two gave me a lot to read and absorb before I commit to a used or a new model of G4000, the  used one I found doesn't have any upgrades  or a whole lot of accessories so for the asking price of $1200 (CDN $)  it may not be such a great deal after all.
I bookmarked this thread and will be coming back to it again .
Here's the ad:Craftex CT039 is identical to G4000:
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/ottawa/lathe-metal/1252418009?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

_Craftex 9"x19" metal lathe, 3/4 HP, power longitudinal feed and quick change gear box, 4" - 3-jaw chuck with two sets of jaws, 7 1\4" four-jaw chuck with reversible jaws, face plate, steady rest, follow rest, MT2 live centre, 4-way tool post, complete with stand, used very little, very good condition_


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## hman

I just did a quick lookup on a currency converter.  Best I can tell is that 1200 CDN ≈ $900 US.  That's not a bad price for a used 9x20.  Seems to be clean and in very good shape, and includes all the "original" items as well as a stand.  When I sold my used G4000 in 2014, it went for $900.  But that included a QCTP, Z axis DRO, and some tool bits.

Obviously, I have no insight into what a G0768 might cost you, or what the current used market looks like in your area.


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## QuyND

Ask far as i know (i did a little research on the internet), they are come from the same company in China (I think). So ...


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## armytbone

It's been over a year since I bought the G4000. It works great. I decided to upgrade my A2Z QCTP from LMS to an AXA Bostar. I don't have the money or a precision lathe to be dropping hundreds on an Aloris or Dorian. PhaseII+ caught my eye, and as far as I could find, Bostar is a comparable QCTP. I got it from CDCO.com along with an adapter mounting bolt from LMS.

Like others who have gone this route, I knew ahead of time that an AXA size is a tad big for a 9x19 and the tool holders would basically be bottomed out on the tool post. That turned out to be true. To get to centerline, I needed some more clearance from the top of the compound. I ended up milling a .25 relief in from the edges, level with the lower part of the compound. That relief gives me clearance from all angles and will allow me to go below centerline if I end up with negative rake tools or knurling tools.

A test spin on a chunk of brass gave me a MUCH improved surface finish and allowed me to take a deeper cut. Overall, that extra mass seems to have helped, and the steel  dovetail Bostar will hold up a lot better than the aluminum piston A2Z.

You can see in the third picture the relief cuts below the QCTP.


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