# Starrett last word indicator



## iron man

Some years ago I purchased a Starrett last word indicator it come in a very nice sealed box and it never really got used much. Now I have a use for it and everytime I take it out it is sticky and very slow to react. I was told you have to send them in to the Starrett gods for repair it was never used so there really was no repair that I could see so I filled a small jar lid with some WD40 and let the mechanism not the dial soak for about 2 to 4 min. and it worked good as new. A few weeks later and I went to use it and same thing soak in the WD40 bath for a couple minutes and just like new again. It seems as though if you do not use this indicator all the time it take's offense to it and seems to want to teach you a lesson. On the other hand I have some imported copy that you could drop it, kick it throw it at a cat soak it in salt water and it would still work what gives??? I have no doubt the Starrett indicater is a very sensitive good indicator maybe to sensitive??? Ray


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## Tony Wells

Well, first, stop with the WD-40. It's original intent was to displace water, and it took 40 attempts to get a marketable product. It is marginal for most other things, IMO. You do need to clean the indicator, and lubricate it. I believe Starrett offers a lube for precision instruments.....seems it's called M1, but I have used a good quality fishing reel lube on some of my stuff for years and never have a problem with sticking. Truthfully, some instruments don't really need the lube so much as rust protection. I have a couple of DTI's that I hve cleaned in ultrasonic tanks, then 99% Isopropanol and let then air dry, and keep them in a case with a desiccant sachet. They are perfectly happy dry.


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## iron man

Thanks Tony the reason I used the WD40 was just in case of mild rust I know WD40 has very little lubrication value if any at all but it should displace the moister if any the indicator was always in its case and used probably a total of 15 minutes in its life.. I will check into the lube you recommended.. Ray


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## frankie

The first indicator I bought was a Starrett Last Word and I had the exact same problem that you described. The fix that I came up with was to buy a Interapid problem solved.

frankie


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## iron man

frankie said:


> The first indicator I bought was a Starrett Last Word and I had the exact same problem that you described. The fix that I came up with was to buy a Interapid problem solved.
> 
> frankie



 We use to use the starretts all the time and in the dirty conditions they seemed to work ok this one was stored in a clean dry place. I use to know a guy that had the same problem once in a while he would soak it in lighter fluid. The Intetapid looks like a nice unit I also have a Gem indicater that seems to work good. Ray


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## DMS

The oil has probably solidified from sitting on the shelf. You cleaned it out with the WD-40 (it's a great solvent), now give it a bit of lite lubricant, and you should be good to go. I have a last word, and have used it extensively for about 2 years. Like it quite a bit.


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## Syaminab

DMS said:


> The oil has probably solidified from sitting on the shelf. You cleaned it out with the WD-40 (it's a great solvent), now give it a bit of lite lubricant, and you should be good to go. I have a last word, and have used it extensively for about 2 years. Like it quite a bit.


To disolve old oils and greases...nothing beats GAS NAFTA.


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## Tony Wells

There are two basic types of naptha, aliphatic and aromatic. Aliphatic has a lower flash point >80°F, so is a bit more dangerous to use, but typical aromatic is used for safety reasons as a cleaning solvent, having a fp of around 140°F. Consumers have access to relatively light naptha in the form of lighter fluid, and at the pain store in VM&P naptha. Both make good cleaning solvents, but have a low flash point, so use with caution, and not near sources of ignition.

The entire family of napthalenes encompasses many different molecular weights and carbon counts, and account for a large portion of gasoline feedstock.


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## GK1918

I have good results with those gun cleaning patches soaked with gun oil and keep my instruments
in zip lock baggies expelling the air before I zip it.  WD 40 is excellent squirtin ants and moths.


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## Richard King

Years ago, The "Last Word" was all we could buy and it worked well.  I still use mine and when I see them at an auction I buy or at least bid on them.  Have any of you heard about a book called "The Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy"?   It is a book written by Wayne Moore of Moore Special Tool and he helped invent Moore Jig Bores.  In many of the close up pictures while they are describing how to accurately scrape a jig bore their using a "Last Word".  I own Inter-Rapids and Brown and Sharp Best Test indicators too.  My favorite is a .0005 Best Test.  )


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## iron man

After googling the problem I found that the sticking is a common problem with these indicators they also are prone to giving conflicting readings due to this some say the small cheap ones are more accurate and better too bad I was raised using Starrett.. Ray


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## Tony Wells

I guess between using them and working on them, I've seem a little bit of all when I was working on other people's stuff too. I like the InterRapid for the Swiss quality, but to me it's just not worth the price. The main attraction for me on them is the increased range of +/- 0.060 I believe it it. I have several different indicators, from cheap to expensive, and I choose the BestTest nearly every time as my go-to DTI. Just seems to always read well and never has led me astray. Although I have worn one out, but it took years of steady use, and was replaced immediately with another one.


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## Splat

Going on what I've read and been told I've bought B&S BestTest indicators, too. MOF last year I dropped my B&S DTI (don't ask! :angry from about 1-1/2'-2' onto my basement concrete floor. It was weird...my hand just spasmed and let go of it. :yikes:   Luckily it's still working fine...confirmed with another indicator.


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## MikeH

As a teenager, I worked in an instrument repair shop. One of tasks that I often had to do was repairing indicators. A large number of them simply needed the congealed oil, coolant, metal dust, and dirt removed, followed by a good oiling to work again.
Like was said, the oil will congeal and cause them to stick. Also, WD-40 leaves a residue that will cause them to stick also; I suspect that may have been the cause of the problems for many of them.

You should be able to disassemble it and fix it. IIRC, usually the issue on the Last Word's was in the "jewels" (the non-metal bearings), clean them, and the gear teeth, apply a couple drops (not a coating) of light machine oil, and reassemble, it should work fine. On the plunger based indicators, the sticking point was usually the rack. The same cleaning process usually fixed them. A lint free sting material was helpful for cleaning the slide bearings on those.


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## iron man

Thanks Mike it must have been the original lubricant they used because it has been in a tight fitting case since new I could use some non-residue cleaner I guess. Ray


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## 12bolts

You really want to be getting all the old, (and new) lubricants out of the internals.
Pay particular attention to the hairspring. A common cause of repeatability errors in moving pointer indicators is oil on the hairspring. Over oiling is a common cause of stickiness. Excess oil just attracts and accumulates junk.

Cheers Phil


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## iron man

Will do Phil thanks Ray


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## iron man

I have others and yes they do work better I was just a little disappointed it was the first indicator I ever purchased when I was a kid and I was always lead to believe Starrett was the best I just cannot believe they still make this thing.. Ray


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## Richard King

Mike would you start a new post and tell everyone about your experience with "cleaning and care of dial indicators" please.  Maybe title it something like that.  We might get more readers to learn.  Can you take some pictures  or can some of the others help with pictures?   We all have our favorite indicators, but a general idea about what to do and what not to do might be interesting.  Then everyone here can link it from there favorite forum.  I was reading the other day when one reader said he only reads the forum about his brand lathe.  
Everyone have a great day!   Rich


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## RLWP

I would welcome that too.

Richard


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## Richard King

RLWP,  What's that icon picture of?    Your name is Richard too?


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## RLWP

Richard King said:


> RLWP,  What's that icon picture of?    Your name is Richard too?



Yes, I'm also a Richard

The picture is the governor from a Gleniffer DB2 marine engine, circa 1935. It's one of the jobs that went through my workshop last year

I love the weird complexity of all those linkages







Richard


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## Richard King

I was curious and found this one....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeKS8QxIGVw


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## RLWP

Richard King said:


> I was curious and found this one....
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeKS8QxIGVw



That is indeed a Gleniffer DB2, with an RB gearbox too.

The governor is actually off this boat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLsUfvBjCBA

There are very few left, maybe four or five? I think I know who the owner of the grey one is

Richard


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## george wilson

At someone's request,I have made measurements of 3 indicators. A last Word in new condition,A Mitutoyo in new condition,and a plunger back Starrett in new condition. The Starretts were kept in boxes,and the Mitutoyo was out in the open,attached to a magnetic base,where it had the possibility of collecting shop dust from the air. It seemed clean.

The way I tested them was by pressing each stylus on a very delicate digital stone weighing scale that registers in 1/10 grams. Each indicator was pressed until the dial read .005".

The Last Word took 2.2 grams to reach .005". The Mitutoyo took 1.0 grams. The Starrett plunger back took 4.4 grams. Each were oiled with Starrett Instrument oil,but only on the joints where their stylii swivel. I do not let oil get inside them.

So,the Last Word took more than twice the force of the Mitutoyo to register .005". The Starrett plunger back,freshly oiled,too,took more than twice the force of the Mitutoyo to register .005". The plunger back is an entirely different type of indicator mechanism,and I think it is not really fair to compare it to the others. I did it because I had it handy,and out of curiosity,included it.

This was a scientific test and cannot be called an opinion because actual data was collected,all indicators were in new condition,and all were oiled with Starrett instrument oil.WD 40 has never been used on my indicators because I know it is bad,and leaves a varnish deposit.

Previously,for several years,I used a cheaper Chinese indicator,which to my trained fingers,felt about as sensitive as the Mitutoyo. I got the Mitutoyo cheap,hardly used,and gave my Chinese one to my journeyman. I never tested it because we did not have the stone scale,and the subject never came up.


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## iron man

Thanks for you effort the info is handy.. Ray


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## Richard King

I found this info and it's interesting:

The first 2 paragraphs is in line with the point I am trying to make.  The Indicator score card listed after the list of indicators is very revealing too.


http://www.longislandindicator.com/p14.html



Have a great week.  Rich


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## Tony Wells

I've always heard good things about Long Island, and that page is a good bit of information, although some of it is probably just informed opinion. But if you want an opinion about indicators, where better to get it than from a service facility? I haven't seen or heard of shearing off of rack teeth, but evidently they have, so I imagine it must be true. I can't see that happening in normal service, but damage from dropping maybe.

Thanks for posting your test results, George. Anyone else want to see if they can replicate his tests, perhaps with other makes of indicators? I may dig out some of mine and see what I get.


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## iron man

According to this WD40's only residue is mineral oil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40


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## Ray C

I'm not trying to enter the discussion of which is better or not but, I get the distinct impression that the industry is going toward the "throw-out-when-damaged" mindset.

Some years ago when I was looking to buy my 1st DI and TDI's, I came across the longisland site and thought, oh boy, I'll just get one of the better ones listed on the chart.  -Then I saw the price tag and felt dizzy.  Next, I looked at eBay and found a couple but by then, I had already been burned buying used equipment that was worn out...  Once bitten, twice shy.

For us newer guys on the block, we're getting forced into the "disposable" mindset.

What I would like to know, is if anyone has done any gauge block testing to see if the new generation of stuff even reads properly or not.  I have several DI and TDI's that cost 30-40 bucks each and I've taken it for granted they actually read properly...  I only have a few gauge blocks of dubious quality.  Does anyone know about this?  If this is too far off track for this thread, please let me know and I'll ask to remove it and start another.


Ray


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## Tony Wells

Well, this is getting into an area more closely related to Metrology, so it might be best with another thread started in that section. I have blocks and pins, and can do some comparisons between a few different brands and share what I know about it.


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## george wilson

I read the long list posted by Richard. It is noted that even some Starrett indicators are subject to failure from cheap metals used in their racks.

For home shop use,I never had a problem with my Chinese indicator,but I was the only one using it,not some ham handed machine operator.

I saw that they had broken the main shaft off of their Blake co-ax indicator at a machine shop I spent the Summer in,in the 80's,making the giant wood screw and nut for a cider mill for Williamsburg. Crap like that happens when several so called machinists have access to tool room tools. Glad it was not mine. Glad,too,that I already have bought one for myself and my journeyman several years ago,if they are starting to cheapen their product.

My Mitutoyo indicator is an older model,I suppose,because it does not have a plastic dovetail.

I have a GREAT older Peacock dial caliper made in Japan. When Enco,a few years ago,put them in their catalog,I ordered one for work. It was the WORST caliper I've ever seen!!!!! Rough as a cob in several places. I've seen  $14.00 dial calipers made better. I'd advise you to not buy a Peacock.


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## MikeH

Richard King said:


> Mike would you start a new post and tell everyone about your experience with "cleaning and care of dial indicators" please.  Maybe title it something like that.  We might get more readers to learn.  Can you take some pictures  or can some of the others help with pictures?   We all have our favorite indicators, but a general idea about what to do and what not to do might be interesting.  Then everyone here can link it from there favorite forum.  I was reading the other day when one reader said he only reads the forum about his brand lathe.
> Everyone have a great day!   Rich



I would be honored! Thanks. I will start on it after I return home. 
I am in Tullahoma, TN, right now, getting my lathe bed, saddle, & cross slide ground and scaped at Schimede's.


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## Richard King

MikeH said:


> I would be honored! Thanks. I will start on it after I return home.
> I am in Tullahoma, TN, right now, getting my lathe bed, saddle, & cross slide ground and scaped at Schimede's.




MIKE  please also do another  one the bed grinding too Schimede's is one of the best machine rebuilder in the USA and I have been recommending them for years.    
I love to see the new generation "Teach" .  It is so important for everyone to contribute here.  That is our vision for all to contribute and not be afraid to do so because we all have an opinion.

Us old farts are here to guide and not preach!

Thanks, Your the best!   Rich 

PS  Did we talk about Schimede's?  I know I told someone about them being a premiere rebuilder...I can't keep it straight...lol...


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