# Safely Move A Half Ton Lathe



## joshua43214 (Nov 26, 2015)

This is a companion thread to my Moving a Half Ton Mill
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/safely-move-a-half-ton-mill.39908/
I decided to start a second thread because this thread will also have a lot of images, and I was not able to edit the title of the other thread.
In my other thread I give details about safety, tools, ramps, types of rigging, and some other stuff. I will not repeat all of that here, instead I will focus on the particular needs of moving a lathe.






Lathes are both more difficult, and more dangerous to move, and there are particular details that must be paid attention to. When something goes wrong, it will happen very fast. One moment the lathe will be on the hoist, and the next moment it will be on the floor. In terms of applied force, the bed acts as a lever. What seems like a few pounds of weight at the tail stock is actually applying much more leverage against the hoisting point. When something at the tail stock moves and stops, it's force and momentum are multiplied many times.

There are two points in particular that absolutely must be done properly:
1) *Lock the carriage! *I really can't over emphasize how important this is. It can take surprisingly little tilt of the bed to have the carriage run merrily downhill into the tail stock, and have the whole lathe up end. If this happens you will realize you have a problem at about the same time the lathe hits the floor.
2) *Rig so the lathe can not slide or rotate in the sling!* There are 3 things that you must guard against here: the sling sliding along the bed, the lathe rotating in the sling, and the crane's hook sliding in the sling. Friction alone from wrapping the sling is not enough. The slings must pass through the casting and/or be blocked to prevent sliding. If the sling comes up from the beds in an inverted V-shape, the v should be knotted to make a loop so the hook is not able to travel along the sling. It is best to either have the sling pass up between the ways, or to use two slings/chains anchored to 4 points. If the later method is used the slings should be knotted, or the chains bolted into loops near the hook.

Other important details in no particular order:
Do not hoist using a sling on the spindle. This is especially important on a new lathe, applying a lot of side pressure on a new bearing that is not run-in can do permanent damage.
Do not wrap the slings so the apply force to the lead/feed screws. You can easily bend them.
Check and double check the hoist to make sure the boom is aligned down the center of the legs. Crane booms do get knocked out of center, I had to adjust mine before I proceeded.
Avoid rolling the hoist sideways. Engine hoists have a very bad habit of tipping over, the long bed on a lathe makes the crane even more likely to tip if the lathe is hanging transversely, or if the boom is off center.
Raise the lathe two or 3 inches and jounce it. This is the time to make sure the crane can deal with a lathe bouncing on the end of the boom.

Real Ohioans know that Ohio is almost West Virginia, and West Virginia is almost heaven...



The crate for my lathe was damaged, so I had to transport it on just the pallet. Note the tie-down going over the head stock is what is doing all the work. Vertical pressure is the key to keeping stuff put. There should be a second tie-down at the tail stock end as well, but the lathe is not tall enough at that end. Instead, two more tie-downs are used to hold the lathe at the 4 corners of the trailer. Important: these two tie-downs are NOT securing the lathe, they are there to prevent the tail stock end from swinging. Nylon_ stretches_, anchoring the load at the corners is not a well secured load.


Note that my trailer is over-sized for the lathe. I intentionally did this because I wanted the head stock to come off the trailer first, and I needed to be able to get most bed in front of the axles with room for strapping. Planning this way both makes it easier for Matt to load the lathe, an easier for me to off-load it with the crane.

I used the same set up I used for the mill move. Anchors driven into the garage and basement floor with chains attached to the anchors. I use a chain fall and a come-along to do the shifting.
The lathe is drug to the back of the trailer using the come-along.



Note the sling comes up through the center of the casting, and that it is passing up through the front area of the hole. The underside of the bedway slopes up to the this point. The sling is not able to move toward the head stock because of the slope, and the web prevents it from sliding toward the tail stock. Rigging the lathe this way makes the lathe slightly back heavy - it wants to roll to the back.


A smaller 1" tied down is run over the splash gaurd to prevent the lathe from rolling



I removed the tail stock and moved the carriage until the lathe was perfectly balanced



Once the lathe is perfectly balanced, I used two more 1" tie-downs attached to the pallet and front and back to prevent the lathe from tipping. These tie-downs are just barely tight enough to take up a bit of stretch, it is really important that they do not carry any actual load. The goal here is to prevent the lathe from rocking, something this long and heavy will build a lot of momentum very quickly.



My driveway is very rough, and I was not able to fit the trailer into my garage. I used the come-along to drag the hoist and lathe back into the garage. I am working alone at this point, my son got held up getting back into town. Note the pallet is resting on the crane arms, but the boom is still under tension.



See my other thread for details on reinforcing the steps and the ramps.
The lathe was removed from the pallet and bolted onto 2x4 skis. The skis are long enough so that if the worst happens, the skis will hit the floor of the basement first and hopefully protect the lathe.
The tail stock end was set on the ramp just inside the door, and the head stock end was block up. We then dismantled the crane and passed it down into the basement.




(My son's girl friend was co-opted to run the come-along.)
Note the chain and hook from the crane are still attached to the lathe. I did not want to go to the trouble of getting all the slings set up a second time, so I just unbolted the lifting chain from the crane.

Some picks of the slide down...





















The pics are worth studying closely for small details.
A few notes in the pics:
Notice that once the lathe goes over the edge, there is no one in it's path. It would probably slide half way across the basement if the anchors failed.
I only own two slings, and the other one is on my old lathe. So we used a tie-down to drag the lathe on the ramps. Tie-downs should not be used for hoisting or lowering. It was okay in this case, but I used chains for lowering.
The lathe is under tension at the top and the bottom until it is fully tipped over the edge. If there is no tension pulling it from the bottom, the lathe will tip up a whole lot, then suddenly slip down a few inches. By tensioning from the bottom, we could control the angle of the lathe as it went over the edge.
Note the way the chain is wrapped around the casting at the tail stock end. Done this way, there is no danger of the chain levering the skis off, and it will not mar the machined surface of the bed.
Note the green 2x4 in the last pick at the top of the ramp, this is to keep the chain from catching on the ramp and possibly pulling the ramp down.
The bottom of the ramp is blocked up on a pair of 4x4's to make sure the skis do not hit the floor until the lathe is at the bottom of the ramp.

Like the mill move, we did not lower the lathe all the way to the floor. It is easier to pick the lathe off the ramp with the crane while the head stock is still higher than the legs on the crane.

Sorry, no more pics of the move. My son didn't make it til really late and it was around midnight at this point. I would have postponed the move, but I needed to get my old lathe back in the garage before any weather arrived.

My new lathe in it's new home



Post any comments, corrections, or suggestions. I will respond as best I can.
-Josh


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## silence dogood (Nov 26, 2015)

I notice that there is about a 6" drop on the bottom of the ramp.  I'm sure that there is a reason for that.  Perhaps if you let us know how you got the lathe from there to the bench.  I've moved a lot of pianos and organs in my day and so far you've done very well.   I'm curious on how you handled the last part.


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## joshua43214 (Nov 27, 2015)

silence dogood said:


> I notice that there is about a 6" drop on the bottom of the ramp.  I'm sure that there is a reason for that.  Perhaps if you let us know how you got the lathe from there to the bench.  I've moved a lot of pianos and organs in my day and so far you've done very well.   I'm curious on how you handled the last part.



I commented on it near the end of the thread. Raising the ramp serves several purposes. The most important is that it allows the machine to reach the bottom of the ramp before the skis hit the floor. If the machine is allowed to reach the floor, it creates problems getting it onto the crane because the machine will not fit between the crane's legs. By blocking the ramp up, the lathe reaches the bottom of the ramp where the crane can reach the sling, but the bottom of the machine is still higher than the legs of the crane. Otherwise you have to jack and block the lathe up until you can get the crane under it.
It is just a simple matter of rolling the crane over the lathe and taking some of the weight up while slowly letting it come down the ramp. The lathe is smoothly transferred to the crane. This is much safer and easier than jacking and blocking the lathe once it is flat on the floor.
We learned this the hard way bringing the mill down. We had to use levers and a floor jack to raise the ramp enough to get the crane in.

There is also a practical limitation of the chain fall. The chain is not long enough to let the machine all the way onto the floor. We ran into this problem when we took my old lathe down. We had to lag screw the choker chain to the ramp, and re-hook the chain fall with an extension chain. It was quite secure, and I felt confident it in - it just requires that you get on the ramp with the machine to drive the screws. By picking the machine off the ramp, we do not run out of chain. We had close to a foot of chain left when we moved the lathe, and maybe an inch of chain left when we moved the mill.

Raising the bottom also reduces the angle the machine has to tip as it goes over the edge, and reduces the load on the anchor the chain fall is attached to. Just due to the nature of the job, you have to sit or squat between the chain fall and the machine (the chains tangle a lot because it is being used horizontally). If the anchor let go, you could get caught in the chains and pulled along with the lathe.

Once the lathe was on the crane, we just rolled it over to it's new home and slid the stand under it.


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## TommyD (Nov 27, 2015)

Nice work.

I assume the tools will stay if you ever decide to sell the house?


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## AR1911 (Nov 28, 2015)

Nice job, good advice.  Especially about locking the carriage and removing the tailstock.  I roll the carriage right up against the headstock.  
    I will differ with you a bit on hoisting by the spindle. Lathe spindles are built to handle many times the lathe's weight in side load. I have lifted a number of lathes using the spindle snout as the primary load point. It's the safest way to attach to it, being the highest available point, so it doesn't rotate. Have not hurt one yet. I can appreciate those who chose not to do so, and I always get permission if it's not my lathe, such as one I just sold.
   I also sometimes use a  load leveler designed for pulling engines. With one end at the spindle and the other attached to a long eye-bolt through the bed and a plate, you can usually lift one level pretty easily.  Otherwise I use a small ratchet strap at an angle from a point a foot or so above the spindle to the end of the bed.


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## joshua43214 (Nov 28, 2015)

AR1911 said:


> Nice job, good advice.  Especially about locking the carriage and removing the tailstock.  I roll the carriage right up against the headstock.
> I will differ with you a bit on hoisting by the spindle. Lathe spindles are built to handle many times the lathe's weight in side load. I have lifted a number of lathes using the spindle snout as the primary load point. It's the safest way to attach to it, being the highest available point, so it doesn't rotate. Have not hurt one yet. I can appreciate those who chose not to do so, and I always get permission if it's not my lathe, such as one I just sold.
> I also sometimes use a  load leveler designed for pulling engines. With one end at the spindle and the other attached to a long eye-bolt through the bed and a plate, you can usually lift one level pretty easily.  Otherwise I use a small ratchet strap at an angle from a point a foot or so above the spindle to the end of the bed.



I think we are actually probably on the same page about lifting from the spindle for used machines. I do follow the school that the bearings need to be run in before any heavy load is applied from the side though. I also agree 100% about getting at the highest point. Many lathes can be bound around the bed, and have the sling wrap around the chuck to get a higher balance point.

Lifting from the spindle on a run in machine is probably fine if one actually has the proper equipment. The problem is that engine hoists bounce a lot, and the shock of bouncing could damage the bearings. If a lifting device that raises and lowers smoothly such as a chain fall or forklift is used, lifting from the bearing should be fine. I decided it was better to just say don't do it, rather than muddy the water with conditions for when it is ok. Also, I think most owners manuals will specifically say not to lift by the spindle.


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## silence dogood (Nov 28, 2015)

Your explanation on the drop on the bottom of the ramp makes a lot of sense.  When we moved pianos or organs, we used what are called end trucks.  They look like wooden hand trucks with straps and they work in pairs.  You put one on each side of a box such as a piano and strap them together.  In this case you want the ramp go clear to the floor so the wheels are always touching.  If the lathe was still in its shipping box, the end trucks would be very useful.  In an unbox lathe , they would be useless since there is nothing to strap to.  Thanks for your explanation,  I learned something.


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## janvanruth (Nov 30, 2015)

"Vertical pressure is the key to keeping stuff put."

No it is not!
The tipping over of a lathe is essentially starting with a mainly sideways movement of the top of the lathe.
 A tie going over the top is not restricting this movement.
This sideways movement should be restricted by two ties, each of which should go to the lathe and back to the anchoring point at as close to a 180 degree angle as possible.

The  ties in the front and the back in the pictures did nothing to keep the lathe from moving sideways.
The one at the back kept the lathe from moving forward but not sideways.
The one in the front did nothing at all.


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## zmotorsports (Nov 30, 2015)

Looks great sitting there and glad you got it into position safely.  Iknow there are many people that have their machine shops in their basement, but I can't imagine putting one of these in the basement going down a tight stairwell.

Mike.


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## joshua43214 (Nov 30, 2015)

janvanruth said:


> "Vertical pressure is the key to keeping stuff put."
> 
> No it is not!
> The tipping over of a lathe is essentially starting with a mainly sideways movement of the top of the lathe.
> ...



I refer you to this article
https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ppp/ppp-75.pdf
It conforms to all US DOT regulations for securing a load. It contains numerous photos of properly secured loads, you will notice that virtually every load secured with webbing goes up and over the top applying vertical pressure. Virtually every image showing what you describe is done with chains. Nylon stretches, chains do not.
I will also refer you to this article
http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/pdf/0598.pdf
From which I quote "If the cargo has a tendency to tip, use a brace."

Strapping over the top does prevent tipping. I have no idea where you get the idea that it does not. By your standards, most of the cargo transported by _professional_ drivers and loaded by _professional_ riggers is done incorrectly. The sideways movement you are referring to during a tip is always accompanied by vertical movement. The wider the base or the wider the top, the more vertical movement during a tip.

Also, I never made the claim the ties to front and back tie downs prevented sideways movement. I even capitalized the word "NOT" as in "...are NOT securing the load." They prevent the tail stock from swinging, as in rotating. With nearly 4' of moment, the tail stock can provide enough leverage to rotate the lathe under the main hold down. The front tie impedes the swing, and the rear tie gives tension to the front tie.

Seriously, if you are trying to use webbing to try and prevent a load from sliding or tipping by using lateral pressure, you are doing it wrong. Friction prevents sliding, vertical pressure produces friction. Using two straps is fine, it is often done. But the principle of producing vertical pressure to induce friction is the same.


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## maker of things (Nov 30, 2015)




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## Cheeseking (Nov 30, 2015)

Good job Joshua.  Glad to see everything made it down ok.


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## janvanruth (Nov 30, 2015)

joshua43214 said:


> I refer you to this article
> https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ppp/ppp-75.pdf
> It conforms to all US DOT regulations for securing a load. It contains numerous photos of properly secured loads, you will notice that virtually every load secured with webbing goes up and over the top applying vertical pressure. Virtually every image showing what you describe is done with chains. Nylon stretches, chains do not.
> I will also refer you to this article
> ...



Heaving read the articles:
NONE of the picture show a load comparable to a lathe.
The heavier items in the pictures  are the equipment on wheel/tracks, that both have a totally different centre of gravity compared to a lathe/mill.

The rules as depicted in the articles are absolutely inadequate.
The number of ties are determined by length and weight. 
The most important factors, height and centre of gravity are not mentioned.

Chains will stretch. (Youngs modulus?)
Be it just a fraction of the stretch nylon will have.

The most important factors are height and width of the base.
Width of the top is a rather unimportant factor  as the rise in stress by the tilting up of one side is counteracted by the lowering of the stress because the other side is going down.
The ratio between hight and width of the base will determine how much stress will be put on the tie going over the top when tipping over.
The wider the base the more the top will initially rise putting thereby stress on the tie.
A narrow base, in comparison to the height, will put less sress on the tie.
A narrow base will also act more as a fulcrum for the sideways movement, thereby reducing the sideway force needed to tip over.

Swinging as in rotation?
I believe a rotational movement has two vectors.
The two totalling 90 degree.
And the sideway movement starting at 90 degree and deminishing to 0 degree after a 90 rotation.

I wont say most professional riggers make a mess of it, but there sure are a lot where professional just means they make a living of it.

Securing by inducing friction is a lower yield operation, except if the coeffecient of friction is >1, for example steel on rubber.
And even then it still is vastly inferior to a tie at a 180 degree angle to the force.

A 1000 pound steel block on  steel floor will have a friction of 740 pound.
Tie it down with a strap giving it 3000 pound force will make the friction go up to 2960 pound.

The same block of steel tied  at 180 degree will have 740 pound friction and will be held by an extra 3000 pound working against the direction of force.
So it will be held in place by a stronger force.

And now introduce some slack in the tie,  so much that no real force is administered.

Asume the force working on the block rises above 740 pound.
The tied down block will start sliding and will not stop untill the external force has gone down considerably.
The tie down has no self tensioning ability.
The 180 degree tied block will start sliding but will immediately be stopped by the tie, that does have selftensioning ability.


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## AR1911 (Nov 30, 2015)

...and let's be sure to compensate for the Earth's rotation, and inverse if South of the equator.


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## Scruffy (Dec 1, 2015)

Good article Jo.  Sure glad I don't. Have a basement.  Was the traffic picture on 64 in wva ?
Thanks ron


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## joshua43214 (Dec 2, 2015)

The pic was taken just east of Wheeling on I-70 E, pretty much middle of nowhere.
By the time I reached the accident that caused the traffic jam, the hazmat crew was hard at work cleaning up and the crashed vehicles where gone.
Added about 40 minutes to a 3 hour trip.


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