# Just received g0704



## ZoSo (Jun 17, 2013)

After lurking here and on other forums for some time I ordered and received my g0704 mill. Since this is my first mill and first time machining I want to say thanks for the wealth of info and friendly help found here.

I broke it down for a thorough cleaning and I'm in the process of tramming it and have some questions.

I see that Mobil Vactra #2 and #3 are recommended for the horiz and vert ways. What type of grease is recommended for the screws? I currently have some white lithium grease on them after stripping off the shipping grease that came on them.

After getting some experience with it I plan on converting it to CNC. I have a set of 2 and 4 flute imported end mills I have been practicing with but what is recommended as far as better quality versions. I will mostly be cutting aluminum and believe that USA made HSS are well regarded for that. What brand or source should I look at?

For finishing passes on aluminum, especially on larger flats, are fly cutters or face mills preferred over end mills? If so what types and brands?

Thanks again.


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## Ray C (Jun 17, 2013)

Hi...  Good luck and I hope you enjoy your new equipment.


On the screws (and I presume you mean the acme rods) of all my equipment, I just use "way" oil.

Endmills:  The endmills you use really depends on the kind of work you're doing. Typically 4 Flute is used for steel and 2 flute for aluminum.  If you're just going to work on annealed steel or softer metals you can go with high speed steel types.   They will probably be coated with TiN (Titanium Nitride) or TiALN (Ti, Aluminum Nitride).  The coatings keep them sharper a little bit longer and also reduce friction.

If you're going to work on materials that might be tougher than common steels, most folks will go with carbide.  -Same rules about 2 and 4 flute.  Coated carbide is most frequently TiALN.  Naked carbide is fine.  I'm slowly switching-over to all carbide and soon, I'll have the ability to do endmill sharpening.

These days, the service you get from your endmills depends mainly on you (and a little luck) and much less depends on country of manufacture.  If you push the tooling hard, it gets dull or breaks -*and *it wears out your machine faster.   Use the tooling conservatively, with proper coolant -and it will last quite a long time.  Luck comes into play too.  You can hit hard spots in cast iron or you could have a brain fart, crank the dial the wrong way and dig-in for a mill snapping hill-climb.

I prefer face cutters, some folks may prefer a fly cutter...  There would be no advantage in using an endmill to face a large area.


Ray






ZoSo said:


> After lurking here and on other forums for some time I ordered and received my g0704 mill. Since this is my first mill and first time machining I want to say thanks for the wealth of info and friendly help found here.
> 
> I broke it down for a thorough cleaning and I'm in the process of tramming it and have some questions.
> 
> ...


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## kd4gij (Jun 17, 2013)

What a new machine and no pic's

:worthless:


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## ZoSo (Jun 17, 2013)

kd4gij said:


> What a new machine and no pic's
> 
> :worthless:



Sorry, this will have to do for now.





I'll post more when I get a chance.

- - - Updated - - -



Ray C said:


> Hi...  Good luck and I hope you enjoy your new equipment.
> 
> 
> On the screws (and I presume you mean the acme rods) of all my equipment, I just use "way" oil.
> ...



Thanks Ray.

I'll try the way oil on the rods as well as the ways.

I really like the quality of my Glacern 4" vise I got in so I might try one of the their face mills. I'm thinking about their *FM45-250* along with their holder. Thoughts?


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## Ray C (Jun 17, 2013)

That's a fine looking facemill and some relief is good.  90 degree tends to push the part too much in the direction of the cut.  I'm sure the Glacern is a fine tool but you might want to look at something like this:  http://www.shars.com/products/view/4249/R8_Shank_2quot_Carbide_Indexable_Face_Mill  as I'm sure the price will be more attractive.   Smaller mills cannot push the limits of these kinds of face mills and for the most part, we take cuts not much deeper than 20 thou as that's the limit of 1 or 2 HP machines.  When you're ripping way more than that, the high-end stuff is needed.  Certainly, the choice is yours but, I've never been let down by the Shars brand of facemills.  Anyhow, this cutter has 15 degree relief and that helps keep the part from moving and it also pushes the part flat to the bed as it passes over -helpful on bigger pieces that can only be clamped at the edges.  The only downside is you can't cut against a shoulder the way you can with a 90 degree.  When I get in that situation, I hit the corners with 1" 90 degree indexable face mill.

I have this same one in 2 and 3 inch.   Inserts are the same and are cheap.  For your mill, I'd suggest a 2" or 2.5" at most.  I use the 2" way more than the 3.  

Ray

EDIT:  I'm also a big fan of integral shank when practical.  I'm not sure if your machine is R8 so better check.  Integral shank is more rigid and is one less thing to loosen-up, get stuck etc.   Some folks think they might move up to NMBT but in my case, R8 is plenty good for home-shop and even light industrial work.


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## ZoSo (Jun 18, 2013)

Ray C said:


> That's a fine looking facemill and some relief is good.  90 degree tends to push the part too much in the direction of the cut.  I'm sure the Glacern is a fine tool but you might want to look at something like this:  http://www.shars.com/products/view/4249/R8_Shank_2quot_Carbide_Indexable_Face_Mill  as I'm sure the price will be more attractive.   Smaller mills cannot push the limits of these kinds of face mills and for the most part, we take cuts not much deeper than 20 thou as that's the limit of 1 or 2 HP machines.  When you're ripping way more than that, the high-end stuff is needed.  Certainly, the choice is yours but, I've never been let down by the Shars brand of facemills.  Anyhow, this cutter has 15 degree relief and that helps keep the part from moving and it also pushes the part flat to the bed as it passes over -helpful on bigger pieces that can only be clamped at the edges.  The only downside is you can't cut against a shoulder the way you can with a 90 degree.  When I get in that situation, I hit the corners with 1" 90 degree indexable face mill.
> 
> I have this same one in 2 and 3 inch.   Inserts are the same and are cheap.  For your mill, I'd suggest a 2" or 2.5" at most.  I use the 2" way more than the 3.
> 
> ...



Yep, mine is R8 and the price sure is nice on that one. I'll have to try it out. What type of inserts do you recommend for aluminum? Steel?

Also, what rpm do you recommend for aluminum with the 2" version? Steel?

Thanks again.


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## Ray C (Jun 18, 2013)

I go with the same inserts on that one and TiN is most common. Face cutting is a finish operation (not hogging operation) so you won't need ultra tough carbide but, you do encounter edges where there is some interrupted cutting. Mid grade carbide (C3-C5 -go with lower numbers for steel) is probably fine. I don't happen to remember what I purchased last time. Your speed will depend on the finish you want. On aluminum, spritz the piece with WD-40 once before making a pass and start with speeds of around mid-500 and work your way up until you get the finish you want. A good minimum DoC on AL is about 5 thou. You can gradually increase DoC but check the face cutter specs for maximum DoC.

Steel, use coolant (I prefer Kool Mist) and start with speeds around 300 and work upward until you get the finsih you want. A good starting DoC is 10 thou and you can work DoC upward after you find the speed you like and until you hit your threshold of noise and swarf burns. I may be a little off as I'm "estimating" numbers based on what I would naturally do myself. Different face cutters have varying numbers of cutters and that primarily impacts the feed rate at which you still get nice finishes. With face cutting, you basically tweak feed rate and RPM until you're happy with the finish and I rarely look-up the speeds on a chart or calculator.

With steel, if you don't use Kool Mist or coolant, you'll need to use dark cutting oil. It will smoke and you'll need ventilation. You'll probably keep DoC's light just to control the smoke so you can see what you're doing. I'm not fond of flood cooling as it obscures your view of the work and is messy as heck!

Ray





ZoSo said:


> Yep, mine is R8 and the price sure is nice on that one. I'll have to try it out. What type of inserts do you recommend for aluminum? Steel?
> 
> Also, what rpm do you recommend for aluminum with the 2" version? Steel?
> 
> Thanks again.


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## Ray C (Jun 18, 2013)

BTW:  I only use face cutters when more than 75-80% (ballpark estimate) of the surfaced area does not involve an interrupted edge cut.  There are many reasons for ths...


Ray


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## ZoSo (Jun 18, 2013)

Ray C said:


> The only downside is you can't cut against a shoulder the way you can with a 90 degree.  When I get in that situation, I hit the corners with 1" 90 degree indexable face mill.



Is this what you were talking about? If so, I'll try one of those out as well. Good price.

Shars 90° Square Shoulder Indexable End Mills >R8 shank 1" carbide indexable end mill

Thanks again.


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## Ray C (Jun 18, 2013)

For a 1" facing endmill, you don't necessarily need the integral shank but yes, a 1" like that is fine.  I have this set of endmill holders:  http://www.shars.com/products/view/866/Precision_R8_End_Mill_Holder_8_pc_Set and this is what you insert standard endmills into.  The endmills have a flat spot ground into the shank for the set screw to keep it from spinning.  That is called a "weldon" shank.  So, you use these R8 to Weldon adapters and from there, virtually all tooling and bits are available in Weldon shank.


My stated preference before about integral shanks was not very clear... Sorry bout that.  My intention was that is the preference for facing tools, boring heads and big attachments etc...  Again, sorry for not being clear about that.

For basic milling, endmill holders are desirable.  Some folks use collets but that's a mistake because, nothing prevents the end mill from getting pushed up into the collet since there is no set screw to fit into the flat spot on the weldon shank.  So, you mill a groove that starts-out at say 30 thou deep and ends up being only 15 thou at the end of the cut.  You can tighten the heck out of the collet and the bit will still slip upward =so you tighten a little more -and before long, you'll have a collet stuck in your quill.  Also, endmill holders protrude an inch or two further out than collets and that gives a little extra clearance for the quill head as you move the table back & forth.

Anyhow, with those endmill holders, you can get any "smallish" tool you want including a 1" indexable endmill like this:  http://www.shars.com/product_categories/view/8060201/Weldon_34quot

Ray


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## ZoSo (Jun 18, 2013)

Ray C said:


> For a 1" facing endmill, you don't necessarily need the integral shank but yes, a 1" like that is fine.  I have this set of endmill holders:  http://www.shars.com/products/view/866/Precision_R8_End_Mill_Holder_8_pc_Set and this is what you insert standard endmills into.  The endmills have a flat spot ground into the shank for the set screw to keep it from spinning.  That is called a "weldon" shank.  So, you use these R8 to Weldon adapters and from there, virtually all tooling and bits are available in Weldon shank.
> 
> 
> My stated preference before about integral shanks was not very clear... Sorry bout that.  My intention was that is the preference for facing tools, boring heads and big attachments etc...  Again, sorry for not being clear about that.
> ...



In my short time with this mill I have experienced that slip with my collets. I'll look into these style holders as well.

Again, thanks so much for the incredible info. It is a great help.


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## Ray C (Jun 18, 2013)

Please consider endmill holders...  Endmills will always push upward with collets and you'll be wondering why in the world you cant mill a piece flat (you might not notice it with aluminum though).  Also, it just ruins the collets if you get a spin-out the endmill.  I only use the collets to hold power reamers.  -And heaven forbid you get a collet wedged in the quill from over tightening.  And on that note, when tightening the drawbar don't go ape and muscle the nuts tight.  -Not necessary.  Draw-up the slack and give it quick snug. I have never had one come loose during operation or have difficulty loosening it.  It's always a good practice to wipe and inspect any collet or R8 shank for swarf before inserting it.  As for the set screw in the Weldon shank, make sure you have the proper size allen wrench and seat the flat part of the weldon slot so its lip/edge is in firm contact with the side of the set screw.  That way, the endmill will stay put and not slide up.

BTW:  For the sake of completeness, some folks use R8 to ER-type holders instead of dedicated endmill holders.  Six of one, half dozen of the other...  I've thought of going with ER holders but, they're almost 4" in diameter and even with relatively slim endmill holders, I find myself getting cramped for real-estate at times...  Personal preference -I'll stay my current course.

Ray




ZoSo said:


> In my short time with this mill I have experienced that slip with my collets. I'll look into these style holders as well.
> 
> Again, thanks so much for the incredible info. It is a great help.


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