# It Sucks 2B Me



## epanzella (Oct 15, 2022)

I got the the mid stage of a milling job and looked at my tooling all covered with chips. Wanting to be neat like the guys on this site I decided to blow my tools off at 40psi and vacuum the area. As soon as the air hit the first tool there was a rifle shot and a mushroom cloud from my VFD. Upon disassembly I found three places where heavy wiring had vaporized leaving 3/4 inch diameter black circles. One of these was a lead on an IC. TOAST! Ordered another VFD. I was about 2 feet below the unit yet the chip had gone in thru a cooling grate on the  top. Yup, it sucks 2B me!


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## markba633csi (Oct 15, 2022)

Oh boy-  best reason to keep a messy shop I've seen LOL
Some shops prohibit blowing off chips- now I can see why


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## pontiac428 (Oct 15, 2022)

You need to knit yourself a VFD cozy to help keep the chips off!


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## graham-xrf (Oct 15, 2022)

Yeah - vacuum the area first. Air pressure to blow a part clean is OK, but you have to control it!
While we are at it, don't let coolants, nor fluids of any kind get into fine electronics and power electrical stuff anywhere.


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## Janderso (Oct 15, 2022)

Sorry to hear about your destruction zone.
Tomorrow will be a better day


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## pontiac428 (Oct 15, 2022)

I like to brush "conformal coating" on sensitive electronics to mitigate such risks.  Consider it for this project or the next.  Makes boards immersible.


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## hman (Oct 15, 2022)

markba633csi said:


> Oh boy-  best reason to keep a messy shop I've seen LOL
> Some shops prohibit blowing off chips- now I can see why


I myself hardly ever use compressed air.  I normally use chip brushes


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## hman (Oct 15, 2022)

pontiac428 said:


> I like to brush "conformal coating" on sensitive electronics to mitigate such risks.  Consider it for this project or the next.  Makes boards immersible.



I tried Amazon, but no joy.  All I could find was #422C (with blue UV dye)...


			https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-422C-Conformal-Coating/dp/B08XR1D4H4/ref=sr_1_7?crid=34JCRDDWBSY61&keywords=silicone+modified+conformal+coating+for+electronics&qid=1665875166&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjQ2IiwicXNhIjoiMS4yNiIsInFzcCI6IjEuNDEifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=silicone+modified+conformal+coating+for+electronics%2Caps%2C146&sr=8-7
		


... and this stripper:


			https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Conformal-Coating-Stripper/dp/B008OA8P3M/ref=sr_1_5?crid=GEQGU2FB07ST&keywords=mg+chemicals+422b-55ml+silicone+conformal+coating+55ml+bottle&qid=1665875232&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjUwIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=mg+chemicals+422b%2Caps%2C154&sr=8-5


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## Eddyde (Oct 15, 2022)

epanzella said:


> Wanting to be neat like the guys on this site


Huh?


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## pontiac428 (Oct 15, 2022)

hman said:


> I tried Amazon, but no joy.  All I could find was #422C (with blue UV dye)...


The UV die is for post production inspection, not for cosmetics.  I've bought it at Amazon in the past, but it's been a couple years (it goes a pretty long way).  You can also use it to seal QD ribbon connectors, etc.

Edit-. The silicone version can be soldered through after the fact, works great.  I don't know if the acrylic version is the same way.


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## Firstram (Oct 15, 2022)

Eddyde said:


> Huh?
> View attachment 423580


YUP!


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## Shiseiji (Oct 15, 2022)

Eddyde said:


> Huh?
> View attachment 423580


Looks like you already ate the donut.


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## benmychree (Oct 15, 2022)

Eddyde said:


> Huh?
> View attachment 423580


There is messy, then there is slovenly.


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## twhite (Oct 15, 2022)

Eddyde said:


> Huh?
> View attachment 423580



Show off. Nobody keeps their metal separated that nicely. 


Cutting oil is my blood.


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## tq60 (Oct 15, 2022)

Place the vfd in a vented box.

Built a frame that uses existing bolts for chip tray.

Added a foot bar that activates the stop function.

Vent holes on bottom of the housing that is below and in center so very safe.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


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## MikeInOr (Oct 16, 2022)

epanzella said:


> I got the the mid stage of a milling job and looked at my tooling all covered with chips. Wanting to be neat like the guys on this site I decided to blow my tools off at 40psi and vacuum the area. As soon as the air hit the first tool there was a rifle shot and a mushroom cloud from my VFD. Upon disassembly I found three places where heavy wiring had vaporized leaving 3/4 inch diameter black circles. One of these was a lead on an IC. TOAST! Ordered another VFD. I was about 2 feet below the unit yet the chip had gone in thru a cooling grate on the  top. Yup, it sucks 2B me!



I spent considerable time and expense enclosing the VFD for my South Bend 13" lathe in a fan cooled metal enclosure.  I have been considering just mounting the VFD for my mill up and out of the way (I currently run it on a RPC).  Your post confirmed for me that the work and expense of an enclosure is a good investment.

Sorry to hear about your melt down!


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## hman (Oct 16, 2022)

I made sure to locate the lathe VFD enclosure well above the headstock, to prevent chip entry.  

The VFD on my PM mill is located well off on the left side ... but I think I might have to cover the openings (shown in the second photo of my previous post) with some tape, to be absolutely sure that no chips get in.









						Converting a knee mill to 3phase/VFD
					

I've recently bought a Precision Matthews PM-835S.  Advertised as a "small" knee mill, it's still amazingly massive - and TALL.  I've had to build a platform to stand on (re-using some of the the 2x4s and OSB the mill was crated with), just to be able to reach some of the controls and levers...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## Ken226 (Oct 16, 2022)

I built my VFD enclosure with an input fan on the bottom and an output fan on top.  Both have filters in place over the fans.

The input fan on the bottom has a higher cfm rating than the output, to maintain positive pressure inside the enclosure. 

An added benefit of this setup is that you never have to clean the inside of the enclosure.



My theory with this design was that any chips small enough to pass through that filter gets pushed away by the air outflow.   Big chips just land on the filter and get shop vac'ed off later.

It seems to be working. After 2 years of use, there isn't a spec of dust inside.











I would have put the fans on the sides, but the vertical fins on the Teco L510 heatsink work better with air flowing vertically through the fins.


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## 7milesup (Oct 16, 2022)

hman said:


> I tried Amazon, but no joy.  All I could find was #422C (with blue UV dye)...
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-422C-Conformal-Coating/dp/B08XR1D4H4/ref=sr_1_7?crid=34JCRDDWBSY61&keywords=silicone+modified+conformal+coating+for+electronics&qid=1665875166&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjQ2IiwicXNhIjoiMS4yNiIsInFzcCI6IjEuNDEifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=silicone+modified+conformal+coating+for+electronics%2Caps%2C146&sr=8-7
> ...





			https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mg-chemicals/422C-55MLCA/11617902


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## 7milesup (Oct 16, 2022)

I would never put a vent on top of an enclosure in a shop environment.
I recently added a VFD and a power supply to my Sharp mill.  The exhaust is on the front of the cabinet but not facing toward the mill.  I designed the louvered cover, and 3D printed it.  The intake is on the back side of the mill, also protected by a 3D-printed fan guard.


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## pontiac428 (Oct 16, 2022)

tq60 said:


> Place the vfd in a vented box.
> 
> Built a frame that uses existing bolts for chip tray.
> 
> ...



Where did that enclosure come from?  I'm looking for the perfect enclosure for an important project, and that one looks ideal.


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## 7milesup (Oct 16, 2022)

pontiac428 said:


> Where did that enclosure come from?  I'm looking for the perfect enclosure for an important project, and that one looks ideal.


I know you weren't referencing my post, but my enclosure is a *Vevor Brand*. I have found that their prices beat pretty much everyone else. These may not be Hoffman quality enclosures, but I am very happy with mine. I believe I ordered it direct but they do sell some of their products on Amazon.


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## epanzella (Oct 16, 2022)

My VFD is (was) quite a bit higher than the mill table. I just mounted it right out of the box and never thought a chip would fall in the top. I guess I'll have to do better with the replacement.


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## Eddyde (Oct 16, 2022)

benmychree said:


> There is messy, then there is slovenly.


Oh give me a break, its usually not that bad. It was a time crunch situation when I had to crank out a couple of jobs fast. Most of the chips were plastic.


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## Eddyde (Oct 16, 2022)

twhite said:


> Show off. Nobody keeps their metal separated that nicely.
> 
> 
> Cutting oil is my blood.


Ha, I suffered for years with a huge morass of scrap metal, then finally separated it and organized it into bins. Life in the shop is much easier now!


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## epanzella (Oct 16, 2022)

Eddyde said:


> Oh give me a break, its usually not that bad. It was a time crunch situation when I had to crank out a couple of jobs fast. Most of the chips were plastic.


Don't take it to heart Eddy. My machine had 3 times the chips and I was only half way thru one job!
Ed P


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## pontiac428 (Oct 16, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I know you weren't referencing my post, but my enclosure is a *Vevor Brand*. I have found that their prices beat pretty much everyone else. These may not be Hoffman quality enclosures, but I am very happy with mine. I believe I ordered it direct but they do sell some of their products on Amazon.


Thanks for that tip, best prices by far!


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## wachuko (Oct 16, 2022)

I count myself lucky on this one… I installed on the side temporarily and used the mill to test… as soon as I saw chips flying everywhere I turned off the machine…




Got a box/enclosure from Amazon, added two fans, and installed it on the back of mill…


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## Bone Head (Oct 16, 2022)

Used to ride with some guys that were going through the training school at Cincinnati Milacron.  Pretty cool deal; you went to class and got paid for it.
One of them got booted out for blowing the chips off a machine.  First offense and gone.  I thought harsh until one of them explained to me that chips would get in the ways and such; apparently causing undue wear.
My airgun lays unused, and a chip brush stays ready.


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## great white (Oct 16, 2022)

Brush or vacuum, never compressed air.

Besides the possible machine/electrical problems, all you need is for a chip to even graze your cornea and you’ll be in agony for days.

Happened to me once despite wearing safety glasses and shields. Not sure if I rubbed my eye or if it was just a freak occurrence, but I was damned near blind within an hour. I wasn’t using air to blow the chips off, it was just a thrown chip but air could have done the same thing. 

I actually think I remeber a chip hitting my forehead just before my eye acted up, so maybe it was just a freak occurrence where it ran down my face behind my glasses.

It got so bad the wife had to come home and take me to the emergency room where they numbed it with drops and gave me an eye cream to help it heal. Nice scratch right on the cornea. Nothing imbedded, just a scratch.

It was an experience I NEVER want to have again…no compressed air. Anywhere. Ever.


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## Karl_T (Oct 16, 2022)

I've swore off compressed air because it jams swarf in all the wrong places...

I found the brushes etc. just take forever to clean up. SOOO, I got the biggest strongest shop vac made and vacuum everything up. the one i use has a huge hose and fits on a 55 gallon drum.

I also use a magnetic broom for the floor. None of my machines have enclosures so  lot of swarf hits the floor. Works great unless cutting AL.


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## tq60 (Oct 17, 2022)

pontiac428 said:


> Where did that enclosure come from? I'm looking for the perfect enclosure for an important project, and that one looks ideal.


We got it at a electrical supply surplus supply.

Local electric motor shop has huge bone yard and we found it there.

These are common things, come in many shapes and sizes.

Amazon and ebay too, price is not cheap. 

I think we paid maybe 30 bucks 9 years. Ago.

Just checked Amazon, search electrical control cabinet and a bunch will come up.

Hold on to your wallet...

Or call around your electrical places to see if any used ones.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


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## wachuko (Oct 17, 2022)

tq60 said:


> We got it at a electrical supply surplus supply.
> 
> Local electric motor shop has huge bone yard and we found it there.
> 
> ...


This is what I got

Zulkit Junction Box ABS Plastic Waterproof IP65 Electrical Boxes Hinged Shell Clear Cover Outdoor Universal Project Enclosure with Mounting Plate and Wall Brackets 11.8 x 7.9 x 6.3 inch (300x200x160mm) https://a.co/d/hEykbrW


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## hman (Oct 17, 2022)

Thanks!  These boxes look very sturdy and functional ... and the price is affordable.    I'm sure I'll be using one of those for an upcoming project pretty soon.


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## pontiac428 (Oct 17, 2022)

wachuko said:


> This is what I got
> 
> Zulkit Junction Box ABS Plastic Waterproof IP65 Electrical Boxes Hinged Shell Clear Cover Outdoor Universal Project Enclosure with Mounting Plate and Wall Brackets 11.8 x 7.9 x 6.3 inch (300x200x160mm) https://a.co/d/hEykbrW


Now that's a nice price!


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## wachuko (Oct 17, 2022)

pontiac428 said:


> Now that's a nice price!


It was the most inexpensive that I could find that would still accommodate my VFD...   Still, I had to cut holes for the fans.  Got two fans and some screen covers for good airflow/cooling....







On using compressed air...  I had planned on having that on both my lathe and mill....  I see the videos from Joe Pieczynski using it and seems to great and useful...  Guess I will switch to a good shop vacuum instead.  Let me see what I can find with a low noise level...

EDIT: Forget about getting an ultra quiet one... suckers are wayyyyy too expensive... I will just get the DeWALT 12 Gal. Stealth Sonic Wet/Dry Vacuum.  It should do just fine...


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## epanzella (Oct 17, 2022)

I do have a dedicated shop vac positioned between my mill and lathe and use that for cleaning up chips both on the machines and on the floor. If you get one that has a muffler on the output they are noticeably quieter. That said, I have always had a compressed air line on my machines and always will. I have a dedicated regulator dialed in @ 40 psi but I'll be lowering that to 25. I'll also take steps to better protect the new VFD which should be arriving today. When clearing chips out of a deep slot while the cut is in progress I always rely on air. I added  the regulator  years ago because 125psi blows chips all over the place. The fatal chip that took out my VFD came off the threads of a tap. I never even considered the perfect storm that precipitated this mishap but it will never happen again.  I just started this thread to possibly  help others avoid my fate.
Ed P


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## pontiac428 (Oct 17, 2022)

OSHA requires compressed air used for cleaning (blowing chips) to be limited below 30 PSI.  It does the job effectively, especially with an induction nozzle.  If one little chip can find your VFD and fry it, then one could just as easily enter your eye... so be careful.


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