# Shop Press Upgrade



## epanzella (Dec 31, 2022)

I'm not a fan of wearing out my lathe bed doing keyways so I decided to get a broach set in the near future. This  turned my thoughts to how I was going to drive the broaches. I could by an arbor press for which I have no room or upgrade my shop press with an air/hydraulic unit to speed up the process. I picked door # 2. With a coupon I got a harbor freight 20 ton hybrid jack for just over a hundred bucks. As the jack extension was now speeded up I decided to make a tool less knob for the retraction to increase efficiency a bit more. I'm delighted the way this turned out and it only too a few hours.


----------



## GeneT45 (Dec 31, 2022)

That air-over jack makes a huge difference!  When I finally did it I wondered why it took me so long.  

GsT


----------



## C-Bag (Dec 31, 2022)

It’s not about speed. It’s about feel. There is no way you know with a hydraulic press if the broach is stuck. The shops I worked in it was immediate termination if you got caught using a hydraulic press to broach with. You might want to make a 1/4” plate screen to stand behind as if that broach shatters we’re talking HSS shards that will go right through you.


----------



## epanzella (Dec 31, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> It’s not about speed. It’s about feel. There is no way you know with a hydraulic press if the broach is stuck. The shops I worked in it was immediate termination if you got caught using a hydraulic press to broach with. You might want to make a 1/4” plate screen to stand behind as if that broach shatters we’re talking HSS shards that will go right through you.


I see Kieth Fenner and others run broaches with shop presses all the time. They back off the ram every 2 inches or so to stop any side pressure from building. That's why I made that quick release knob. I can quickly back off the ram without tools.


----------



## C-Bag (Dec 31, 2022)

I see a lot of dubious unsafe stuff on YouTube. To each his own. You should ask Janderso about his experience with hydraulic press and broaching. The quick release is not going to stop a broach from shattering after the fact.


----------



## benmychree (Dec 31, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> I see a lot of dubious unsafe stuff on YouTube. To each his own. You should ask Janderso about his experience with hydraulic press and broaching. The quick release is not going to stop a broach from shattering after the fact.


I quite agree with the anti hydraulic press for broaching, it can be done, but at your peril!


----------



## pontiac428 (Dec 31, 2022)

I agree with John and C-bag, it's one of those cardinal sins in the work shop to use a hydraulic press on a broach.  You will feel the shrapnel cutting through before you hear the ping!   It's not the eyes you have to worry about, either- they give no resistance- it's what lies immediately behind them.


----------



## epanzella (Dec 31, 2022)




----------



## Chewy (Jan 1, 2023)

I agree with the others on hand pressing the broach.  just because you have power feed on a lathe or mill doesn't mean you HAVE to use it.  You get into some dubious setups that can be done by hand and hit the power feed and watch what happens.  On that HF press the blocks are cast. First thing to do is throw them away,  Especially if you are going air over hydraulic. They can shatter before you hear them groan. Use solid steel or get the plates from Swag.  Problem is that the plates cost more then the press.


----------



## mmcmdl (Jan 1, 2023)

C-Bag said:


> It’s not about speed. It’s about feel. There is no way you know with a hydraulic press if the broach is stuck. The shops I worked in it was immediate termination if you got caught using a hydraulic press to broach with. You might want to make a 1/4” plate screen to stand behind as if that broach shatters we’re talking HSS shards that will go right through you.


This has been discussed multiple times in the past . My buddy took a trip to the ER years ago when the broach broke and shattered . Broach parts hanging out of his stomach . We learn by our mistakes if we get the chance to .


----------



## brino (Jan 1, 2023)

@epanzella 

While I trust and respect the advice given above, I too broach in the vertical hydraulic press.
It's not that I believe it is perfectly safe, I just don't have shop space for a manual arbor press that I would only use once every couple years.
The hydraulic press gets used at least every few weeks for other things.
So, while I do not recommend broaching in the hydraulic press, I still do it.

Mine is fully manual pumping.
I believe air-drive would be great for other things in the press, but I would not use it for broaching.

I also apply some cautions/limits:
i) use lots of cutting oil
ii) stop and release pressure every few pumps (as stated above)
iii) when stopped, check the broach and work-piece from every angle to be sure everything is still aligned.
iv) if the broach does not move when the press ram does then STOP! Tension is building up somewhere and that is dangerous.

With manual pumping of the hydraulic jack I do get some (admittedly limited) feedback on resistance.
Using the air-drive will remove even that and make it much easier to get into trouble.

Brian


----------



## alloy (Jan 1, 2023)

I'm with the arbor press crowd.  

 With the arbor press you can tell when the broach starts to tilt and catch.  I'd think that I would have the same problem with the broach tilting and cutting the key way too deep, and ruining the part that cost me $$. Not to mention the safety issue.


----------



## epanzella (Jan 2, 2023)




----------



## Janderso (Jan 4, 2023)

C-Bag said:


> It’s not about speed. It’s about feel. There is no way you know with a hydraulic press if the broach is stuck. The shops I worked in it was immediate termination if you got caught using a hydraulic press to broach with. You might want to make a 1/4” plate screen to stand behind as if that broach shatters we’re talking HSS shards that will go right through you.


I learned this the hard way. (Exploding broach)
I use my #3 arbor press now to broach.


----------



## imagineer (Jan 4, 2023)

Two comments (qualifying each that I'm not a machinist)...

1st, the HF 20T press, either manual or air over hydraulic, has a lot of side to side and front to back play on the ram.   Before considering one for broaching, look into adding guides on the press to keep the ram traveling true.

2nd, I've used a drill press in lieu of an arbor press for pushing a keyway broach.   I'm sure it overtaxed the drill press spindle gear, but in a pinch, it worked.


----------



## pontiac428 (Jan 4, 2023)

I imagine @Janderso doesn't need to be told twice to watch his fingers.

I'd listen to the voice of experience.


----------



## C-Bag (Jan 4, 2023)

I should have said this before, but I think the OP's upgrade to air over hydraulic was a good one. So I'm not critiquing that, I'm just concerned about the use with broaching.


----------

