# An update on my vigil of pain



## Silverbullet (Oct 4, 2017)

I'm finally set up to get the inerstim stimulator removed,  Pre testing on the tenth and removal on the 18th of October. Ill be in on the 18th to get the removal you think I could schedule an mri while I'm there right oh know have to set up a different time so they get all they can from Medicare ins. But at least they said I can get it done near me , don't need to go to Jeff for the mri. Royal pita in my opinion if your already going to be in the hospital and held overnite wouldn't one test the next day be smarter . Or are the office workers making up lies to get me off the phone. Just not right ...........


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## Reeltor (Oct 4, 2017)

I can't make a comment regarding what your Medicare Insurance will pay vs. what you will need to pay.  I believe that you will be charged 20% of the cost as a copay.  I don't have Medicare but when I needed to get a CAT scan, if I went to the hospital radiology dept. to have it done the cost would have been over $4,000, a stand alone company that is 1-block from the hospital the total charge was $480.  Even with the insurance I would have paid more in co-pay to the hospital than what the total charge was from the free standing practice.  Both facilities are on the insurance companies "in-network" list.  You MIGHT  be able to get the hospital to accept the payment from Medicare as payment in full; but you need to look into that prior to going into the hospital and get it in writing.  Good luck and get well


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## aliva (Oct 4, 2017)

This might be slightly off topic, and I don't want to offend anyone, but why doesn't the U.S. adopt a universal health care system like so many other countries. France, Canada, Britain, Sweden etc. I will admit there are some drawbacks, such as wait times, to these systems but everyone is covered through their taxes, no need to pay out of pocket for anything.You won't have to look for an insurance provider as the government is the provider. I just seems you people from the south are really getting hosed for monthly insurance coverage, if you can get it. And right now your congress is having a really tough time replacing Obomacare. Maybe a look at a different system might be in order.
I 'd be interested in your thoughts


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## Billh50 (Oct 4, 2017)

I hope all goes well for you silver


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## Charles Spencer (Oct 4, 2017)

aliva said:


> This might be slightly off topic, and I don't want to offend anyone, but why doesn't the U.S. adopt a universal health care system like so many other countries.



You probably don't realize it but in the US this is considered a highly political remark.


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## David S (Oct 4, 2017)

Charles Spencer said:


> You probably don't realize it but in the US this is considered a highly political remark.



Charles you are very correct.  As a Canadian I have my son living in the US with his wife, and I am horrified when I hear about the costs they have to endure for what we consider routine procedures with no cost to us.

Of course  my comment "no cost to us" is not true, we pay dearly through our tax structure.

So yes, unless folks here can have a discussion, not a debate, or an argument....it is probably best to just let it drop.

David


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## Reeltor (Oct 4, 2017)

Let's stay on topic for Silverbullet.  ( i wrote a dissertation and deleted it without posting, the topic is just too political)


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## mikey (Oct 4, 2017)

Reeltor said:


> Let's stay on topic for Silverbullet.  ( i wrote a dissertation and deleted it without posting, the topic is just too political)



Agreed. I did the same.


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## woodchucker (Oct 4, 2017)

I can comment. I received the same BS from my own doctors office. I wanted to do two things and they told me that I had to come back because of billing reasons, they couldn't be done on the same visit.  It's a way of working the system. Either the drs are at fault or the insurance has driven them to it.. That I'm not sure about.


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## mikey (Oct 4, 2017)

woodchucker said:


> I can comment. I received the same BS from my own doctors office. I wanted to do two things and they told me that I had to come back because of billing reasons, they couldn't be done on the same visit.  It's a way of working the system. Either the drs are at fault or the insurance has driven them to it.. That I'm not sure about.



I can assure you that most doctors just want to practice Medicine. We do not receive training in business or medical insurance or Medicare in Med School; we learn what we need to practice Medicine. The regulatory environment in which you practice has strict rules and heavy penalties for not adhering to them, especially with Medicare and Medicaid but also with many private health plans. The doctors are forced to follow protocol, not because they are trying to make more money off of you but because this is how the system is set up. HMO's tend to be better about this (and I believe that is the model that will eventually be the national standard here) but even there, we must follow the rules and document care in a way that justifies the procedures we do. Why? Because if we don't then the business fails and everyone loses - patients and health care providers alike.


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## woodchucker (Oct 4, 2017)

mikey said:


> I can assure you that most doctors just want to practice Medicine. We do not receive training in business or medical insurance or Medicare in Med School; we learn what we need to practice Medicine. The regulatory environment in which you practice has strict rules and heavy penalties for not adhering to them, especially with Medicare and Medicaid but also with many private health plans. The doctors are forced to follow protocol, not because they are trying to make more money off of you but because this is how the system is set up. HMO's tend to be better about this (and I believe that is the model that will eventually be the national standard here) but even there, we must follow the rules and document care in a way that justifies the procedures we do. Why? Because if we don't then the business fails and everyone loses - patients and health care providers alike.


The problem I have is taking off for 2 visits when one will do it.


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## rwm (Oct 4, 2017)

Believe it or not, doctors have the same problems when they go to see another doctor. It's insurance....
Definitely price shop for an MRI.
R


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## mikey (Oct 4, 2017)

woodchucker said:


> The problem I have is taking off for 2 visits when one will do it.



Totally understand. Just wanted to make it clear that the docs are not the issue.


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## Charles Spencer (Oct 5, 2017)

I got lucky when I found my doctor.  He's about my age and emigrated here from Greece back in the 1970s.  He was a blue-collar guy who worked making iron fences during the summer.  In Europe higher education is highly subsidized and costs practically nothing.  His practice is a partnership that he owns with another doctor.  Therefore he doesn't have the assembly line approach that other doctors are forced to follow.  We have real conversations and he goes out of his way to explain things clearly and thoroughly.  I sure hope he keeps practicing for a while.  If he does retire I will look for another doctor with common sense who also owns his practice.

So SB I'd guess my suggestion would be to research and see if there is somebody near you whose circumstances are similar and can reduce some of the BS for you.


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## brino (Oct 5, 2017)

@Silverbullet ,
I have no comment on medical systems or billing practices.

I just wanted to send all my best wishes with your upcoming procedures.
I hope you come out of it all with less pain and then can get back to doing more in your shop.
-brino


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## Silverbullet (Oct 5, 2017)

Reeltor said:


> I can't make a comment regarding what your Medicare Insurance will pay vs. what you will need to pay.  I believe that you will be charged 20% of the cost as a copay.  I don't have Medicare but when I needed to get a CAT scan, if I went to the hospital radiology dept. to have it done the cost would have been over $4,000, a stand alone company that is 1-block from the hospital the total charge was $480.  Even with the insurance I would have paid more in co-pay to the hospital than what the total charge was from the free standing practice.  Both facilities are on the insurance companies "in-network" list.  You MIGHT  be able to get the hospital to accept the payment from Medicare as payment in full; but you need to look into that prior to going into the hospital and get it in writing.  Good luck and get well


Oh I'm familiar with the twenty percent payment . I'm still paying from 2009 on the copayments from my times that year. But what you don't know I've been disabled since 1979 , our only income is my SS disability . And my wife made $8,000 last year part time cause she's got worn out knees and back pain too. So now tell me can you live and pay your bills with that income. In a good summer season I can make a couple thousand selling used equipment. Lawnmowers and small engines. So tell me how good I have it how great it is to be livin on SS. 
I'm not complaining just saying, I tell the drs I'm unable to pay the deductibles , many except the payment and don't send the bills. Others I just throw away. Can't get blood from stone . There's no bank account or hidden funds , our cking account is sum total of life.


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## mikey (Oct 5, 2017)

Silverbullet, sorry to hear about your situation. If you're a vet then the VA is the first place I would go. If not, and if you are not a Medicaid member then you should speak to a social worker so they can assist you in enrolling. Some social workers, at least the ones that aren't burnt out, can be really helpful in helping you deal with business offices, too. 

I pray Trump doesn't have his way with Medicaid and Medicare.


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## Reeltor (Oct 5, 2017)

all I can say is God Bless


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## Superburban (Oct 5, 2017)

Yes, definitely look into your states medicaid. Many think its the same thing as medicare. There is a big difference, in most cases, it is only a $1 copay.  Good luck finding Doctors that will accept it, but if you are an existing patient, they will have a harder time saying they do not want to see you again.

I agree with Mikey, If you are a Veteran, go directly to the VA, and do not pass go. They get a bad rap, some deserved, most not.

I also have an interstim, and often think it was a mistake.


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## Silverbullet (Oct 6, 2017)

I was not talking anything political , I was complaining about the waste of time and money trying to get a simple procedure and an mri done on one visit to a hospital. It's no fun trying to get to anyplace when every bump in the road cause screaming pain. It's not like I can hop in a car drive over and sit and wait. The entire time I'm upright it gets worse I don't care one DERN bit about there billing and the ways the system uses the lawyers , politicians, and drug companies. There has to be leeway and flexibility . You can bet your butt if I was John q senator those tests would be done the same day . The removal is a local in the lower back about two inches or less . Not like ill be knocked out. Every time I need to go to a Dr or test my daughter looses a days pay. The pains to horrific for me to transfer to drive and back in the chair six times .


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## wawoodman (Oct 7, 2017)

It sucks. I really hope things get better for you.


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## Silverbullet (Oct 12, 2017)

Small update. All pretesting went well . Spent the last three days in agony from just riding my wheelchair in the , to the hospital and home . I stayed outside to just be out till 4 pm , from 9 -4 then getting help in agony laid off the chair into the bed where I had to lie the entire night not moving , trying use the urinal was pure hell. Today I'm barely able to but I at least I got moved up in the bed without crying. So next week ,Wednesday ill be put thru hell again at least three or more trips im guessing. God I hope nobody has to go through this , please take care of your body this is pure hell.


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## Billh50 (Oct 25, 2017)

Silverbullet,
I wish you the best. I know how it goes when you hurt. It seems it takes forever for anything to happen for the good. I have been going through hell with this tumor. But I think this last type of chemo might actually do something. Just hope the heart failure doesn't get worse.


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## Silverbullet (Oct 25, 2017)

So by now you know what some of us have been trying to get you a mill. I was wishing they would get you the rotex mill it had both and the head was even made to nod like Bridgeport . It was Kool. 
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
Ck it out here. Looked it up and they're built not made.


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## Billh50 (Oct 25, 2017)

That looks about the right size for what room I have. Will check it out.


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## Silverbullet (Oct 25, 2017)

Guess I didn't fill in my operation went well and they did the mri ,,,unbelievable,,,, as soon as I came from surgery. Wow wow , no wonder claustrophobic people have trouble. It is a tight tube and it took 2 1/2 hours for the test. But I made it thru and then to the room it's now after 9:30 pm . I get a hamncheese on bun packed in 1945 and a can of coke yea about 6 ounces. And a fruit cup peaches. Feast after 24 hrs of no food. Pain meds every 4 and 6 hours. Perks valium, fentanyl patch. Still hurt , in the morning Dr Harrop says he checked the mri and can't help the upper back from 1979 three operations,  But he,'ll figure out the bulging discs and let me know. I forsee at least one more spinal operation and maybe two. I pray he can just fix the cause of pain I'm enduring and been in for years. So we have a good outcome so far thank you father in heaven. And I thank this site for helping me survive living in bed .    THANKS REALLY


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## Silverbullet (Oct 30, 2017)

My home Dr took the bandages off and then came back a few days later or Friday and took stitches from the two spots. Fifteen in total , one set was pretty sore and still is a bit. She is a whole lot better then most , she's really puts the patient first. The surgeon didn't even have any instructions to get them out. Had some video chat thing we couldn't get to work . So no idea if or what he's going to do for three bulging discs , the real reason for seeing him. But there's another appointment set for December , after all he's not in pain I am.


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## woodchucker (Oct 30, 2017)

A couple of things. My BIL was a Jersey City fireman, he is permanently disabled. His back also.  He lives with a morphine drip machine implanted in him.  After many surgeries this was the last option. 
I assume your doing fish oil. Have you gone inverted on a inversion machine? it used to give him some temporary relief. Me I would want a rack to stretch me out, to provide some relief. 
Hope you get some relief soon. I have lost feeling in my dominant hand for the last 2 months, And at times the numb becomes a burning sensation. I remember when I was paralyzed that burn at night. I'll be in surgery shortly after they do some more testing and find where the nerve is entrapped.


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## Silverbullet (Oct 31, 2017)

woodchucker said:


> A couple of things. My BIL was a Jersey City fireman, he is permanently disabled. His back also.  He lives with a morphine drip machine implanted in him.  After many surgeries this was the last option.
> I assume your doing fish oil. Have you gone inverted on a inversion machine? it used to give him some temporary relief. Me I would want a rack to stretch me out, to provide some relief.
> Hope you get some relief soon. I have lost feeling in my dominant hand for the last 2 months, And at times the numb becomes a burning sensation. I remember when I was paralyzed that burn at night. I'll be in surgery shortly after they do some more testing and find where the nerve is entrapped.


You totally know what I'm living with. I'm not able to be stretched my previous surgeries they removed to much bone one stretch and pop I'm dead. Dr Harrop said he wouldn't touch the top of my spine . Waiting to see about the lower backs three bulging discs. I'm at least able if I don't move much stay ok with fentanyl patch and about sixty mg of oxycodone a day. Bad parts it binds your innards and YA crap concrete. Ill pray for you and your bil, mine died young heart problems helped with agent Orange two tours in nam as a seabee. YUPP clearing the poisoned trees . I sure miss him too.


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## cvairwerks (Nov 1, 2017)

Silverbullet said:


> Waiting to see about the lower backs three bulging discs. I'm at least able if I don't move much stay ok with fentanyl patch and about sixty mg of oxycodone a day. Bad parts it binds your innards and YA crap concrete.


If you have to continue the pain stuff for very long, talk to the Dr. about switching over to methadone instead of the oxycodone and fentanyl. Works as well or better, lower dosages and doesn't plug you up like the other stuff. The wife has been on it for most of the last 17 years and every time they try and switch her to oxycodone/Vicodin et al., she ends up having massive problems with getting the pain under control again. About 5 years ago, her pain specialist gave up on trying to move her around on various medications and has left her on the methadone permanently. A plus factor financially, is that it's very cheap.


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## Silverbullet (Nov 3, 2017)

My wife and I looked at the report on the mri , up top between my shoulders I'm screwed. They didn't say anything really about the lower back and the discs . At least that we could understand but it seems I had some weird **** happen at the time of the 79 operations one spot of my cord is real thin. After the first operation they said my cord was swollen and they left a cord leak . But I was great no pain moving legs and could feel everything. After about two weeks they wanted to operate again but I said no . They coerced my family into changing my mind so operation 2 YUPP wake up fully paralyzed neck down , still leaking spinal fluid . He didn't do what he was told and he said was only seal the leak . He removed more bone and explored further. So now he's scared says he's going on vacation ships me to Pennsylvania hospital Dr Fred Simione best on the east coast at that time. You guessed it painful mylograms lower and upper . Long needle injected into your spine behind your ear and then turned upside down on your head and every angle . Another operation he took skin graft from leg and sealed the leak. Told me all he could see was scar tissue . So my life's been **** caused by a dam India Dr Narni Geri , no longer practicing or living in the USA . So if I seem miserable on here I think I earned the right to be an sob at times I'm hurting like hell. Here's my story truth with a large family and relatives to prove every word. I'm tired of fighting to live , to eat , to keep a home even.


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## Silverbullet (Nov 12, 2017)

Next visit to the surgeon is , December 7th 10 am. Gonna try and pin down if he's going to fix my bulging discs. I'm so tired of pain and not moving around. I have a large drill press to pick up its 20" with the big table and power feed . I have one now that needs tons of work but this one's off the floor of a working shop. So ill be trying ,,,begging ,,, for help from a few friends if they even respond . It's less then five miles and I have a forklift I can use to unload . So I'm hoping for help but not going to get it I'd bet money on that.


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## Silverbullet (Dec 7, 2017)

Well it's 1 am and today may effect my life what's left of it. I see Dr Harrop around 10 am . I'm going to really box him in a corner to get the questions answered  . It's just not right to keep people suffering for long extended periods of time. There has to be something that can be done to at least stop the pain enough I can get around to mess in my shop. I've got no friends to help , just my daughter and she's a very busy mental health therapist in her own practise. I'd be willing to tutor anyone wanting to learn machine tool technology. In exchange for the help of setting up the shop . Even restoring several machines . I don't ever try to use anyone has I've been used and abused over the years. Even my church where we put over twenty five years of our whole families lives. Not one person . But that's ok I really didn't do the work there for people per say.
If I can ask could you just send a thought to heaven for me . To guide the surgeon on how and where to cut to relieve my pain. Thank you all


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## Z2V (Dec 7, 2017)

Sure hope he can offer you some relief..
Best wishes


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## Superburban (Dec 7, 2017)

Praying the Doc has some positive ideas.


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## Billh50 (Dec 7, 2017)

wishing you good luck at the docs. I know how it feels to be in limbo and wondering if it will get better.


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## brino (Dec 7, 2017)

Silverbullet said:


> Next visit to the surgeon is , December 7th 10 am.



I am thinking about you Silverbullet; you have all my best wishes.
I hope you come out of today with a plan for a pain-free (or at least, reduced pain) future.

I know for me the more time I can spend in the shop the better I feel.
-brino


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## Silverbullet (Dec 8, 2017)

It went about like I figured , he's sending back to pain doctors , some different procedure to pinpoint the cause with pain blockers or morphine drip in the spine of some sort. 
Not what I wanted to hear , but they're the best around here. Right now I'm in so much friggin pain I'm incoherent to everything . I get told by pain management go see surgeon I go for surgery he sends me back . I feel like I'm some kind of yoyo there pumping up and down and being thrown down a hall. All I know is I can't take this much longer , handful of oxy ill just go to sleep. Then I won't be suffering.


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## brino (Dec 9, 2017)

Hopefully now the pain management team will understand that surgery is not an option and they will produce a solid plan to help you.
Hang in there!
-brino


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## Silverbullet (Dec 10, 2017)

brino said:


> Hopefully now the pain management team will understand that surgery is not an option and they will produce a solid plan to help you.
> Hang in there!
> -brino


I'm telling YA I'm about done in. If they get moving quicker and really figure it out. The opium drip with a mix of lidocaine sounds like it won't let me do nothing . It's a pump or something .


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## Silverbullet (Dec 10, 2017)

One thing really ticks me off. He could have let me know his results weeks ago by email or phone . No I had to waste another six weeks of my life getting nowhere. Between the pain from going to his office and now I'm still not even able to move in bed and it's been three days . Now I'm kinda ****** OFF too. But he's not in pain so they just don't get it . I never ever thought I'd grow up and have back pain . My dad use to have some and I guess I didn't really know till I'm in it . But he never was down just said it ached. 
Going on two years since I started trying to get fixed up any wonder I'm on edge.


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## Silverbullet (Dec 18, 2017)

It's official the pain Dr Josephson has called and denied me his services as a pain Dr. I called Dr Harrop office and I'm waiting to hear his next brilliant move. I'm really losing faith in Jefferson hospital. 
I'm never getting better at this point.


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## Silverbullet (Feb 7, 2018)

Update if anyone wants to know. I've been refused by three pain centers , rothman , releiveus , and Dr josephson , I saw a second surgeon a Dr Atlas ,, very confident and I respected the man an Dr ,,, he told me my spine can't take anymore operations, adding please don't let anyone operate on my spine. He suggest more meds and medical marijuana . So my Dr came today ,,, I was in agony from the visit yesterday,,, but we talked about the meds ill be getting morphine again so ill need constant help with the binding it does to the guts. Medical marijuana may be in my future too. I'm lined up in March for Jefferson pain management hope this new specialist can cut the nerve or block it. I'm not into the pump idea too restricting , no stimulator either took twenty years to get the last one out. It died in two years so my body eats the batteries I guess or to much **** in the blood. Lol  And joy of joys now I have a problem with swelling in my left leg and foot. Ace bandage makes water squeeze out the pores  YUPP I'm lucky , broke a tooth off , no answer from the dentist , can't afford the $500 for him to glue it back on. Fun


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## woodchucker (Feb 7, 2018)

Geez, that sucks. Can you do an epidural block, or have you tried accu puncture to block the pain?
I know both require frequent visits. I guess that's part of the problem.. 
Hoping you find an answer.


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## Silverbullet (Feb 7, 2018)

I had two epidural shots , no relief,  my visiting Dr discussed the acupuncture but not covered by Medicare and I have no extra at all. SS disability is $1,173 a month, house taxes are $6,000 , @year , so it don't go far with all house bills car ins. She's said about a nerve cut in that spot. Recotome or something she said. I'm going back to deluded ,,, morphine ,,, in a week . See how it helps this time big gut troubles with them . Makes concrete out of crap. The back Dr on Monday said my spines been through to much all ready. Not to let anybody operate on it . I had a butcher in 1979 he made me cripple , but I couldn't prove it back then so he got away with ending the life I could have had. 
So I see Jefferson pain specialist on Mar 3rd.


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## Silverbullet (Feb 24, 2018)

Guess ill put the next downside to death, the broken tooth is throbbing . No answer from the dentist yet , have to wait five days anyway ,, blood thinners,,, gonna be a fun time this week . If I can get an answer from the dentist. If not ill have to get my daughter to drive me and she won't get her income .  I still don't know what I ever did to deserve all this hell I have to go through. Going to be slim on living for a long while . Now this is a real bite I don't need.


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