# Removal Of Hex Nut From Clutch Mechanism Under The Star Shaped Knob



## razinman (Oct 26, 2015)

I bought a SB 10L some time ago(6 months) been busy getting ready to move and started dismantling and cleaning the lathe again in between . I'm done with the tailstock, saddle and taper attachment.
 However ,I'm stuck on the disassembly of the apron. I have the older version with the star
shaped clutch actuator mechanism. Mostly everything else came off fairly easier. In the manual it was stated
that after the star knob is removed , in order to take out the clutch mechanism the hex nut must be removed
first. In order to do this, it stated to grip the clutch gear from the rear and remove the hex nut. However when
the clutch gear is held the idler gear (which is geared into the smaller gear attached to the draw bar of the
clutch mechanism)still continues to move. I'm afraid that if I'm able to wedge a piece of wood to hold the idler
gear, which meshes with the small gear of the clutch the teeth will break?
   One other problem, when taking out the upper rack pinion gear the taper pin was stuck in but
good! I attempted to knock it out but failed after several attempts, I tried to drilled out the taper pin but the
bit broke in the hole(I tried it from both directions and the bit broke in each side) Before I take it to a
machinist for him to try to get the bit out  should I attempt it with a carbide bit(These taper pins are a real
Pain in the A$@)-70 + years is a long time to spend in one place !)
    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks...............Razinman


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## RJSakowski (Oct 26, 2015)

If a piece of the drill bit is still there, you will probably shatter a carbide bit (ask me how I know).  Try to tease out the broken bit first.   Then try the carbide.  If possible the drilling operation should be done in a controlled manner as on a drill press or a mill.  Carbide is sensitive that way.

It is possible that the pin has partially sheared during a period of stress.  The central portion of the pin will be offset from the two ends effectively locking the pin in place.  This happened on my wife's rototiller shift mechanism.  I was able to sever the pin and drive the pieces out separately.

It may help to soak the part thoroughly with a good penetrating oil.

Bob


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## JimDawson (Oct 26, 2015)

Without looking at the gear arrangement I couldn't advise on that.  My suspicion is that the gears would take the load of a wood wedge, but no recommendation.

Sounds like its time to break out the Dremel or small die grinder with a carbide burr.  I have removed a lot of broken drill bits and easy-outs that way.
.
.


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## razinman (Oct 26, 2015)

RJSakowski said:


> If a piece of the drill bit is still there, you will probably shatter a carbide bit (ask me how I know).  Try to tease out the broken bit first.   Then try the carbide.  If possible the drilling operation should be done in a controlled manner as on a drill press or a mill.  Carbide is sensitive that way.
> 
> It is possible that the pin has partially sheared during a period of stress.  The central portion of the pin will be offset from the two ends effectively locking the pin in place.  This happened on my wife's rototiller shift mechanism.  I was able to sever the pin and drive the pieces out separately.
> 
> ...


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## razinman (Oct 26, 2015)

I used a drill press when I attempted to drill out the taper pin, I will soak it in Transmission fluid(I was told it could be
possibly effective-unless you n=know of something better.
  Thanks....Razinman


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## razinman (Oct 26, 2015)

JimDawson said:


> Without looking at the gear arrangement I couldn't advise on that.  My suspicion is that the gears would take the load of a wood wedge, but no recommendation.
> 
> Sounds like its time to break out the Dremel or small die grinder with a carbide burr.  I have removed a lot of broken drill bits and easy-outs that way.
> .
> .


I originally ground down the head of the taper pin(with a dremel tool) so that I could determine which was the smaller end. I don't think that I could control
the dremel tool to make a precise cut.
If you can get a view of the apron of SB 10L it is the Upper rack pinon gear that is giving me the problem.
 Thanks again......Razinman


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## JimDawson (Oct 26, 2015)

razinman said:


> I used a drill press when I attempted to drill out the taper pin, I will soak it in Transmission fluid(I was told it could be
> possibly effective-unless you n=know of something better.
> Thanks....Razinman



Mix the ATF 50/50 with acetone, will penetrate much better.


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## JimDawson (Oct 26, 2015)

Is item 27 page 19 the pin that you are talking about?  

http://neme-s.org/Shaper Books/South Bend/CE3458 Parts Manual.pdf


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## razinman (Oct 27, 2015)

JimDawson said:


> Mix the ATF 50/50 with acetone, will penetrate much better.


I know that's that right combo-! Thanks.
YES YES YES part #27 pg 19 is CORRECT!
Right now I'm dousing it with acetone/ATF : 50/50 
Wish me good luck. I'm still not sure of how I'm going to get the taper pin out.
Harbor freight 4" punches bent! the elongated ones were too wide.(I have an older set for nail sets, due to the tapered heads I can't use them But they
do not bend the way HFT's did)
I'm going to buy a set from a local machine parts dealer hopefully NOT  "made in china"
 Thanks for all your help ........Kerry
 Any idea how to get the hex nut behind the Star knob(of the clutch mechanism)out?


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## JimDawson (Oct 27, 2015)

razinman said:


> Any idea how to get the hex nut behind the Star knob(of the clutch mechanism)out?



Do you have an air impact wrench?  That would pop it off without causing any problems.


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## 4GSR (Oct 27, 2015)

Watch it! That nut may have a left hand thread on it.  At  least on my 9A lathe the knob is held on with a screw that has left hand thread on it.  Discovered that by accident.  As for the tapered pin, lot of good advice given, but if it's like some I've encountered in my past, you may have no choice but drill it out.


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## razinman (Oct 27, 2015)

JimDawson said:


> Do you have an air impact wrench?  That would pop it off without causing any problems.


It's not that I can't turn it, the problem is the clutch arrangement turns and there's no way to secure the shaft that the hex nut is attached to.
[I'm going to take a pic and send it in an email later today (there' s a  snap ring within the hex nut)-when I send the pic you'll
see what I mean the manual does not show it for some reason.]
I heard of someone had a machinist make him a tool(part) to remove the hex nut
Many thanks for your concern........razinman


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## razinman (Oct 27, 2015)

4gsr said:


> Watch it! That nut may have a left hand thread on it.  At  least on my 9A lathe the knob is held on with a screw that has left hand thread on it.  Discovered that by accident.  As for the tapered pin, lot of good advice given, but if it's like some I've encountered in my past, you may have no choice but drill it out.


It is a right handed thread, the star knob came off when it turned counterclockwise.
The problem is the drill bit is stuck in the hole where the taper pin still is, would you use a carbide-tipped  bit to remove the broken HSS bits?
Thanks...........razinman


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## 4GSR (Oct 27, 2015)

If you can drill it from the opposite side, that way when you hit the broke off drill bit, you just push it out of the hole.  I would do that before trying to drill out a broken drill,  which I doubt you'll be able to drill it out without breaking off a carbide drill bit.  Then what do you do?


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## JimDawson (Oct 27, 2015)

razinman said:


> The problem is the drill bit is stuck in the hole where the taper pin still is, would you use a carbide-tipped bit to remove the broken HSS bits?



You might be able to use a concrete type bit,  but I would use a carbide burr.  A carbide twist drill will just shatter.


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## chips&more (Oct 27, 2015)

It’s a taper pin, so it has a big end and a small end. Forget about the big end. Get a GOOD punch that is smaller than the diameter of the small end. YOU DO NOT WANT TO MUSHROOM THE SMALL END OF THAT TAPER PIN. Support the assembly so your hammer blow energy goes the taper pin and not somewhere else. Maybe try a little heat. I would forget about trying to remove those broken drill bits unless you have an EDM machine. ..Good Luck, Dave.


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## razinman (Oct 27, 2015)

4gsr said:


> If you can drill it from the opposite side, that way when you hit the broke off drill bit, you just push it out of the hole.  I would do that before trying to drill out a broken drill,  which I doubt you'll be able to drill it out without breaking off a carbide drill bit.  Then what do you do?


I did that already and that bit broke too , so now I have two bits broke in opposite side of the same hole !
Kerry


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## razinman (Oct 27, 2015)

chips&more said:


> It’s a taper pin, so it has a big end and a small end. Forget about the big end. Get a GOOD punch that is smaller than the diameter of the small end. YOU DO NOT WANT TO MUSHROOM THE SMALL END OF THAT TAPER PIN. Support the assembly so your hammer blow energy goes the taper pin and not somewhere else. Maybe try a little heat. I would forget about trying to remove those broken drill bits unless you have an EDM machine. ..Good Luck, Dave.


I'll try to get a good punch , I know my woodworking tools, machinist punches are new to me. Harbor freight sucks, sears used to make good quality handtools
and machinists tools , unless you know of a company I'll take a look at some online machinists tool companies.
  Thanks....Razinman


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## chips&more (Oct 27, 2015)

razinman said:


> I'll try to get a good punch , I know my woodworking tools, machinist punches are new to me. Harbor freight sucks, sears used to make good quality handtools
> and machinists tools , unless you know of a company I'll take a look at some online machinists tool companies.
> Thanks....Razinman


Getting the hammer blow energy to the taper pin is important. You do not want it going to a flimsy punch or to the rest of the carriage assembly. Only to the taper pin. And I forgot to mention that a round punch could be a little longer than you would like. Longer is not good. Again, could lose energy. If the punch is too long, I would shorten it first. I might be sounding like I’m out there. But for me this is important. I have never had any bad luck removing a taper pin. Some have been stubborn. But they all came out…Dave.


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## 4GSR (Oct 27, 2015)

razinman said:


> I'll try to get a good punch , I know my woodworking tools, machinist punches are new to me. Harbor freight sucks, sears used to make good quality handtools
> and machinists tools , unless you know of a company I'll take a look at some online machinists tool companies.
> Thanks....Razinman



Starrett pin punches is all that I will use, or that will hold up longer.  And if you have to, shorten the length of the pin on the punch so it is less likely to bend on you when you give it that sharp blow.  I sometimes use a pair of vise-grips to hold the punch.  And put on some heavy gloves to soften the blow if you hit yourself with the hammer!


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## razinman (Oct 27, 2015)

chips&more said:


> Getting the hammer blow energy to the taper pin is important. You do not want it going to a flimsy punch or to the rest of the carriage assembly. Only to the taper pin. And I forgot to mention that a round punch could be a little longer than you would like. Longer is not good. Again, could lose energy. If the punch is too long, I would shorten it first. I might be sounding like I’m out there. But for me this is important. I have never had any bad luck removing a taper pin. Some have been stubborn. But they all came out…Dave.


Dave, can I still do this if the broken bits are stuck in the hole at both ends(since I will be hitting the broken drill bits first)The taper pin is stuck in between
both broken drill bits.
 Kerry


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## razinman (Oct 27, 2015)

4gsr said:


> Starrett pin punches is all that I will use, or that will hold up longer.  And if you have to, shorten the length of the pin on the punch so it is less likely to bend on you when you give it that sharp blow.  I sometimes use a pair of vise-grips to hold the punch.  And put on some heavy gloves to soften the blow if you hit yourself with the hammer!


Thanks for the advice I have a 4-5 lb sledge hammer I'm going to try hit the obviously narrow end of the hole . but like I said before I'll be hitting the
broken drill bit first.
Kerry


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## razinman (Oct 27, 2015)

Thank you for all your help, and all the replies. I am soaking the taper pin in the hole with a 50:50 mix of ATF/acetone,
for a few days to gain my confidence and strength to start again!!


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## catskinner (Oct 31, 2015)

razinman said:


> However ,I'm stuck on the disassembly of the apron. I have the older version with the star
> shaped clutch actuator mechanism. Mostly everything else came off fairly easier. In the manual it was stated
> that after the star knob is removed , in order to take out the clutch mechanism the hex nut must be removed
> first. In order to do this, it stated to grip the clutch gear from the rear and remove the hex nut. However when
> ...



For that hex nut, even if you don't want to secure the gear in the back if you use an impact wrench it will spin off anyway.


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## razinman (Oct 31, 2015)

catskinner said:


> For that hex nut, even if you don't want to secure the gear in the back if you use an impact wrench it will spin off anyway
> Hi Catskinner,
> 
> I'm literally out of my mind from this one fre&*k#n HEX NUT. I cannot secure the gears directly attached to the clutch screw rod. No matter how hard
> ...


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## razinman (Oct 31, 2015)

JimDawson said:


> Do you have an air impact wrench?  That would pop it off without causing any problems.


Jim,
                  Somebody else said to use an air impact wrench, can it be electric instead of air and will it pop off the nut if the gears in the back are not secured.
    I'll give it a try.
  Thanks again,  Razinman


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## catskinner (Oct 31, 2015)

1


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## catskinner (Oct 31, 2015)

razinman said:


> Jim,
> Somebody else said to use an air impact wrench, can it be electric instead of air and will it pop off the nut if the gears in the back are not secured.
> I'll give it a try.
> Thanks again, Razinman




It works on circular saw blades that don't have a lock, chainsaw clutches, old electric fans lots of things. I think that an electric impact would work fine, the high end cordless ones that the mechanics use at my work have enough torque to rattle off just about any nut smaller than 1 1/8".


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## JimDawson (Oct 31, 2015)

razinman said:


> Jim,
> Somebody else said to use an air impact wrench, can it be electric instead of air and will it pop off the nut if the gears in the back are not secured.
> I'll give it a try.
> Thanks again,  Razinman



Electric or the new battery wrenches should work fine.


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## razinman (Nov 1, 2015)

razinman said:


> Jim,
> Somebody else said to use an air impact wrench, can it be electric instead of air and will it pop off the nut if the gears in the back are not secured.
> I'll give it a try.
> Thanks again,  Razinman


I'm literally going out to buy one now!

  Thanks so much..............Razinman


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## razinman (Nov 1, 2015)

catskinner said:


> It works on circular saw blades that don't have a lock, chainsaw clutches, old electric fans lots of things. I think that an electric impact would work fine, the high end cordless ones that the mechanics use at my work have enough torque to rattle off just about any nut smaller than 1 1/8".[/QUOT
> I'm Literally going out to buy one right now,
> Thanks hopefully it will work, but either way Thank you!...........Razinman


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## wawoodman (Nov 1, 2015)

I wonder if that would work on bench grinders, where you have a right-hand and a left-hand nut? No matter which one comes loose first, the other one is a PITA.


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## JimDawson (Nov 1, 2015)

wawoodman said:


> I wonder if that would work on bench grinders, where you have a right-hand and a left-hand nut? No matter which one comes loose first, the other one is a PITA.



Yes, I have done this.  Be careful when tightening, and don't over tighten the nut.  Don't want to damage the wheel.


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## razinman (Nov 1, 2015)

JimDawson said:


> Electric or the new battery wrenches should work fine.


JIM IT WORKED!!!  I HAD TO SECURE THE GEARS WITH THREE PIECES OF OAK SHIMS BUT IT WORKED
 THANK  U THANK U THANK U , NOW I DON'T NEED A PSCHIATRIST !
  Razinman


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## razinman (Nov 1, 2015)

catskinner said:


> It works on circular saw blades that don't have a lock, chainsaw clutches, old electric fans lots of things. I think that an electric impact would work fine, the high end cordless ones that the mechanics use at my work have enough torque to rattle off just about any nut smaller than 1 1/8".


I WORKED I HAD TO SECURE THE GEARS IN THE BACK WITH HARDWOOD SHIMS BUT IT FINALLY WORKED
THANK U, THANK U.............Razinman


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## razinman (Nov 1, 2015)

Now back to the broken bit stuck in the upper gear's taper pin.
I wonder if I'll be done by X-mas (2016 !!)

  Thanks to all for your help.........Razinman


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## catskinner (Nov 1, 2015)

Good job razinman.  Now for the taper pin, short punches, secure the gear and the apron so it can't move AT ALL, and a good hammer, my favorite it a 2 1/2#double jack.


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## razinman (Nov 1, 2015)

I have two broken bits one on each side of the holes, I have a 3-4 # hammer , Now I have a better chance to secure the gear since ALL the
parts are out of it

      Razinman


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