# Lagunmatic CNC machine why not!



## jeepguy88

Just picked up myself a nice winter project. A Lagunmatic.
I have 0 CNC experience. So this will be a good challenge.
Currently has Fagor 8010m controller. Doesnt really want to turn on. I plan on upgrading to PC anyway. I kept my old gaming computer around for just such a project.
The lagun has dc brushed servo motors currently on X,Y,Z and they all work. When I powered up the machine, they all worked. So thats a plus. Maybe the Fagor controller didnt like running off a RPC?. There is no manual with this, and no labels to what input for what the machine needs to be wired to.  Machine is overall in great shape, just needs a super bath from siting in the corner for so many years neglected.

I have no idea what I need to run this off my pc . Ive only seen a handful of youtube and reading around here. I need a breakout board? some drive controlers? Mach4 or Linuxcnc, thats it? Seems pretty simple compaired to trying to figure out whats wrong with the Fagor controller. Id say Im ok when it comes to building computers but, trouble shooting old circut boards or monitors doesnt seem like fun. Not to mention that I could probably figure out Mach4 or LinuxCNC software easier than learing the Fagor Controller. Not to mention the fagor controller is about the same size of the mill! lol It would be nice just have have a small computer and monitor mounted to the side.

My other mill is a full size Grizzly that was converted to cnc, that was non operational. It was advised that I would be better off making it a manual mill instead of messing around trying to figure out all the cnc controls. I kinda regretted that, but now I have a legit CNC that just needs a little help. I have stepper motors (I think) from the Grizzly machine somewhere, if those are better than the dc servo motors? I dont know the size of them, but I'll go find them and look. I dont know the size of motors needed to power a full size mill either.
Ill post some pics when I can.
Any input on breakout boards or drivecontorllers and software is much appreciated.


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## matthewsx

Sounds like a neat project, post some pictures so we can see what you're talking about.

I would be inclined to keep as much as possible from the existing set-up, sticking with the existing servos and their controllers will save a ton of money if you can use both.

Here's someone who updated a 3516-SX with LinuxCNC.

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/30-cnc-machines/31621-lagunmatic-3516-sx-retrofit?start=0

I'm sure the experts will chime in soon but I'm using LinuxCNC with a cheap 5-axis controller and steppers for my project but will be eventually running a Mesa Electronics 7i96 control board.

Cheers,

John


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## Eddyde

Sounds like a great project. I'm no expert but I think would be entirely possible upgrade the controller. Please post pictures of your progress.


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## jeepguy88

Hope I added the photos correctly.
Barely cleared the garage door  
So far my only progress has been unloading and a tiny bit of cleaning . I've got a 6" step up to clear going into the garage. I rented a tilt deck trailer and it has a very slight decline to the garage floor. I put a pipe to roll on and move it with a large pry bar. Pretty easy.


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## jeepguy88

I need more shop space lol. 
Feel like I've come along way from my first mill, the lil RongFu


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## jeepguy88

So far, the only thing that seems to be missing is the pump for the self oiler, the lines are still there, and its missing a draw bar. It takes 40taper tooling, I think its ntsb. I can probably make a drawbar


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## matthewsx

She’s a beauty.
I bet all the smarts are in that control box. I’d be tempted to try and get that working, it’s conversational right?

john


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## JimDawson

Ooooooh, what a fun project.    As said above using the existing servos & drives is not out of the question, but is a bit more complex than using newer hardware.  Those look like Servo Dynamics servo drives, maybe you can find a data plate on them.  If they are, I have the documentation for them.  750 watt servos would run the machine just fine, that's about what the rating is on the existing motors.  On that machine I would not use steppers, no point in dumbing down a nice machine.  Your RCP should run the control, but without taking some voltage measurements it's a little hard to make a good guess.

Pretty sure the control, including the servo drives, is single phase and quite possibly will run on 120V.  But need more information to figure that out.  Clearer pictures inside the main power cabinet would tell a lot.  Looks like it's wired for 240V, but I can't see the transformer in the upper right clear enough to read the data plate on it.  It does have 600V main fuses, so indicates it could run on 480V, but is obviously capable of 240V operation.  My best guess is the only thing on that machine that requires 3 phase is the spindle motor.  Don't change any wiring until the current voltage setup can be positively confirmed.

Without any documentation and your stated limited control system experience, repairing/using the existing Fagor control is pretty much a lost cause.  Besides there is no point in running that machine on a 30 year old controller.  But quite honestly since you have that Grizzly sitting there, I would get it running first, just for practice.  Once you are more comfortable with CNC controls and systems, then tackle the Lagun.

The existing servo drives most likely use a +/- 10 VDC analog command signal, not a problem, but will limit your control hardware choices.  Dynomotion Kflop/Kanalog and Galil products will run them, there are a couple of other options also but I can't remember them at the moment.  All are compatible with Mach3/4.  Centroid would be another option.

There are a few of us here that have done this a time or two so can offer advice and sympathy


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## jeepguy88

JimDawson said:


> Without any documentation and your stated limited control system experience, repairing/using the existing Fagor control is pretty much a lost cause. Besides there is no point in running that machine on a 30 year old controller. But quite honestly since you have that Grizzly sitting there, I would get it running first, just for practice. Once you are more comfortable with CNC controls and systems, then tackle the Lagun.



Thanks for the reply Jim, I see your in Oregon too!
I agree with trying to repair the Fagor as a moot point. On the other hand, it would be nice to see it work, only to resell the controls and recoup some money. Theres a Fagor 8010 screen and panel on ebay at the moment that I was socked to see the price on.
My Grizzly works just fine, as a manual machine. The grizz was non-op when I bought it, it was a backyard conversion, had some odd bracketry to hold the servos on there, I dont know if system ever worked. I just took the brackets off and installed handles. It does have ball screws that are really smooth  The quill setup was really funky and I dont think it worked, just looking out it was all built. The grizzly is all back to normal. I was just saying I have the motors from that machine on hand in case they are needed. 

The Kflop.
*Kanalog Expansion Board for KFLOP*
looks pretty reasonably priced. 



matthewsx said:


> I bet all the smarts are in that control box. I’d be tempted to try and get that working, it’s conversational right?


Not yet. lol

When I turned the machine on, the motor worked, pressing the power button on the control box, I could hear the computer turn on, but it wouldnt stay on unless I held the power button in, and all the servos ran until they ran out of room while I was holding the power button down. 

Ill go get some more photos


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## jeepguy88

The first clear clean image Im guessing this is an original servo, this is for the z axis. The  not so clear label is for the y axis.
And a couple more shots of the electrical box. 
I was thinking of just plugging the computer in to the wall outlet to test and mess around with it.


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## JimDawson

The machine seems to be wired for 240 volts.  Looks like all of the controls are single phase, so only the spindle motor requires 3 phase.

I can't read the tags on the servo drives in the cabinet, but comparing them to my drives they look the same.  To the right of servo drives looks like a multi-voltage power supply.  This probably supplies power to the controller, probably supplies 5 and 12V, and maybe 24V

The servo motors look to be rated at 1.2KW  and I'm guessing are actually running on about 100V DC.  That should be supplied by the big transformer in the upper center of the cabinet.


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## jeepguy88

I was able to verify power to the control panel, but its non responsive. Pressing on the power button, the servos all power up and go one direction. It doesnt stay on, after releasing the power button, the system turns off. I unplugged the control panel, pressed the power button again, and the servo drives turn on and stay on with a loud continous alarm sound.  I think its safe to say the Fagor control panel is gone


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## JimDawson

Yup, kinda sounds that way.

So the next choice is to decide if you want to use the existing servos, and then to match a control system to them.


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## jeepguy88

Might as well use the servos that are in place already. Two are old, but one has been replaced. And I know that they all work, so thats not an issue. I was just reading up a little on the Kflop and mesa boards. 
So basically, wire up the kflop or mesa board and figure out to get it to read on the computer?


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## JimDawson

Well in a nutshell that's about it. So the next question is what CNC software you want to use.  I think Dynomotion has their own CNC software, Mach3/4 is an option also.  Not sure if Centroid is compatible with either of those boards, but they also have boards that will interface with those servos.


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## jeepguy88

I was leaning towards Mach4. I also kinda wanted to try linuxcnc. Im thinking that Mach4 is proably more user friendly and easier to learn. I played around with Ubuntu a little bit back in the day, but seem to take me awhile to figure things out.


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## JimDawson

Mach4 is fine.  Now you just need to identify all of the existing wiring and hardware, you need to create an I/O map and an accurate schematic with wire colors.  Then decide what you are going to use and what you can remove.  You will want to pretty much keep the power controls intact to the degree possible, and figure out the needed modifications and wiring changes.


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## jeepguy88

Thanks Jim, sounds pretty simple.
Im also thinking about putting a vfd instead of running of my RFC. I would be able to control the spindle on and off and speed with mach4 on the computer right?
The kflop/kanalog is compatiable with most servo drivers/controllers? Incase my servo drives arent so good? I see a gekodrivers for brushed dc motors are only $115 each


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## JimDawson

It is pretty simple.  I did the upgrade on mine in 1 1/2 days, didn't even take the job off of the table.  That thread seems to be missing from H-M, I guess I need to recreate it.  But here is a similar thread of Alloy's Shizuoka upgrade, done in my shop also.  https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/shizouka-an-s-build.33868/

A VFD for the spindle would be my choice.

Yes, Mach4 can control the spindle VFD.

Kflop/Kanalog can control most servo drives.


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## jeepguy88

Thanks Jim, Im going to order the Kflop/Kanalog this weekend. That Shizuoka build is amazing! Hopefully my upgrade doesnt take me to terribly long.


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## Karl_T

I'll just mention this so you are aware. this would be a good candidate to go top shelf and get a Camsoft control.  This control uses a Galil control card for real time control feedback to the encoders for accurate position sensing. WAY more ability than other PC controls.

it is spendy and a bit more difficult to install. I am biased. After doing a couple AHHA stepper controls, and a Mach 2 control, I moved up to Camsoft.  its like going from the pony express to airmail.


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## jeepguy88

Karl_T said:


> it is spendy and a bit more difficult to install.



That rules me out. lol


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## jeepguy88

Started oreding stuff. Orderd a vfd off amazon, its a Lapond, I had a really good experience with my first Lapond vfd running my first lathe. Ordered the kflop/kanalog board. Im going to try and run a touchscreen, that seems pretty slick. Have to order one those too. And tooling, I dont have any 40taper tooling. . Also ordered a 6" vice off amazon too.  
Better be worth it, so far with fuel, trailer rental, vice, motion control boards, vfd, Im out some serious monies after getting the machine home. Still have to purchase touch screen and mach4. And buy or build a draw bar, and build or buy a powerdraw bar. oh boy.


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## JimDawson

Time to sit down with the Kflop/Kanalog manual and figure out how to wire this thing up.


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## jeepguy88

So far I've just done dismantling and a little cleaning. Removed the table. There is some dried coolant in there making it a little sticky. Just going to give it a nice cleaning. The ways look real good.


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## jeepguy88

Rearanged the electrical box, pulled all the 3phase stuff out and am starting to figure out how to wire up the Kanalog. And thats where Im hitting my first wall.
JimDawson was kind enough to send over the manual for the ServoDynamics 1525 amplifiers. I partially understand most of it. lol
Ive spent the last two days trying to find more info on the kanalog wiring diagrams. This is where Ive hit a wall. I dont know what or where to plug anything into the Kanalog board. I thought finding Kanalog infor would have been the easier part. Looked on the dynomotionwiki page, but wasnt able to find anything specific


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## JimDawson

this help?





						Kanalog Connectors
					

Manufacturer of premium motion control products for CNC Manufacturing, Robotics and Automation



					www.dynomotion.com
				









						Dynomotion On-Line Help
					

Manufacturer of premium motion control products for CNC Manufacturing, Robotics and Automation



					www.dynomotion.com


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## jeepguy88

Yup! 
Thats pretty much what I was looking for and couldnt find . 
Thanks Jim. 
We'll see how far I get this time lol


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## jeepguy88

Only more confusing....lol
Ill try and start with something simple 
so on one of the driver boards (page 7 of the manual) there are a few wires pluged into J1. Using slots 3,4,8,11,14,15.
#3 Tach Input- Used for tach input only, this input has additional tach filtering and conditioning - single ended. 
#4 signal common used as a common when pins 1 2 and 3 of J1 are used as imputs 
#8 Remote Shutdown
#11 Power supply common and ground
#14&15 limit switch overtravel

These where plugged into part of  the old controller. I dont understand the verbage here and how it connects to what on the Kanalog.


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## JimDawson

This is simple..... If you have been working with this stuff for the last 35 or 40 years like I have    It can be a bit daunting if you have not seen the nomenclature before, and trying translate between the Kanalog manual and the SD manual.

Pin 2 (signal input) is where you will connect the Kanalog JP11, DAC_10V for each axis.  DAC means Digital to Analog Converter, and in this case +/- 10 Volt output
Pin 4 (signal common) is where you will connect the Kanalog JP11, GND

Pin 3 is where the motor tachometer + connects
Pin 4 (signal common) is where the motor tachometer - connects.
(these two should already be connected)

Pin 8 can be used as an enable, inhibits the drive output when pulled to ground.
Don't worry about the other pins for now.


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## jeepguy88

That makes much more sense. Thanks!
Yes, totally new to all this, and the language of the two is my first hurtle. 


JimDawson said:


> Pin 2 (signal input) is where you will connect the Kanalog JP11, DAC_10V for each axis. DAC means Digital to Analog Converter, and in this case +/- 10 Volt output
> Pin 4 (signal common) is where you will connect the Kanalog JP11, GND


I can handle that tomorrow. 
Another small step I should be working on?


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## JimDawson

jeepguy88 said:


> Another small step I should be working on?


Not sure where you're at.  But at this point you should preparing an I/O map.  Much easier to make changes on paper or a computer than to rewire the system. Then when you start wiring, all you have to do is follow the map.  The following is an example, I do these in a spreadsheet


FunctionGalil TermConnectorVoltageConnect toOrigionalINPUTINPUT COMINCOM17I/OGNDZ LOCKOUTIN 1IN 1I/O24VSEL SWITCHE-STOPIN 2IN 2I/O24VCP RELAYPRIOR ACTIN 3IN 3I/O24VIN 4IN 4I/O24VIN 5IN 5I/O24VIN 6IN 6I/O24VIN 7IN 7I/O24VIN 8IN 8I/O24VCOMMON5V30Ext I/O5VJOG X-IN 2519Ext I/O5VJOY STICK 1JOG X+IN 264Ext I/O5VJOY STICK 1JOG Y-IN 2734Ext I/O5VJOY STICK 1JOG Y+IN 2820Ext I/O5VJOY STICK 1JOG Z-IN 295Ext I/O5VJOY STICK 2JOG Z+IN 3035Ext I/O5VJOY STICK 2IN 3121Ext I/O5VIN 326Ext I/O5VDIGITAL GNDGND33Ext I/ODIGITAL GNDGND36Ext I/ODIGITAL GNDGND39Ext I/ODIGITAL GNDGND43Ext I/OLSCOMLSCOMLSCOMI/OLEFT LIMIT XFLXFLXI/OLMT SWITCHRIGHT LIMIT XRLXRLXI/OLMT SWITCHFRONT LIMIT YFLYFLYI/OLMT SWITCHBACK LIMIT YRLYRLYI/OLMT SWITCHTOP LIMIT ZFLZFLZI/OLMT SWITCHBOTTOM LIMIT ZRLZRLZI/OLMT SWITCHOUTPUTOUTPUT PWROPWR11I/O24VSPINDLE RUNOUT 141I/O24VRELAYFLOOD COOLENTOUT 227I/O24VRELAY120VACMIST COOLENTOUT 312I/O24VSOLINOID24VQUILL LOCKOUT 442I/O24VSOLINOID24VCOUNTER BALOUT 528I/O24VSOLINOID24V


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## Karl_T

I see Jim is saving another person. He saved me too. Dunno what we'd do without him.


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## jeepguy88

JimDawson said:


> Not sure where you're at.


Im lost....lol jk
Its starting to make a little sense. 
I removed all the 3phase stuff in the box. It had a 3phase coolant pump that was missing. There was a little extra wiring and switches.  then all the transformers for the stepdowns, that are now just wired to one of the 120 legs. Have my vfd installed and working for the spindle. I have the Kanalog board mounted. Thats its. Still have alot of wires hanging out that came from the Fagor control box. Computer is all hooked up running. I havent downloaded any software.
I found a wiring schematic on cnczone.com. I think this one is pretty relative. I just need to figure out what my encoders are for each axis and wire accordingly. 
Making a spreadsheet seems like a great idea, but again I dont understand most of the verbiage. I figured I would be wiring and rewiring 4-5 times lol. Pretty sure making a spreadsheet will be really easy when Im done....lol


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## JimDawson

The schematic looks good.

I'm assuming the encoders are on the motors, so one caution, remove the belt from the motor until you're sure you have the motor under computer control.  Those motors are powerful enough to do some mechanical damage if they run away.  A runaway is very common when first setting up.  Normally caused by having the encoder and motor running in opposite directions.  You have a 50/50 shot at getting it correct the first time.

I don't know anything about the Kanalog setup, but there may be a way to change the direction in the program without rewiring.  It there is a torque limit method available, set it very low to start with.


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## jeepguy88

Oh yes, I have the belts off. I love carnage as much as the next guy, however I don't want to wreck the new toy.


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## jeepguy88

Feel like Im getting somewhere now. lol
I wanted to find some info about the wiring for the encoders. Before I hooked them up wrong and fried something. Looked around for a few hours on how to figure out what wire is what on the encoders wasn't coming up with much useful info. Maybe if looked inside the fagor control box might give me a clue to what is at least positive and negative. Oh looky there! surprise, its labeled on the back of the old control box! How convenient,  Still some odd verbiage.
So for the encoder I have
Red .....+5v
White .....A something?
Green .....B something?
Black ....Ov
black .....IO
Green..... Ground

i dont know what Ov stands for or what I0 stands for?

Im half way to knowing whats needed to make a spread sheet


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## JimDawson

A and B are the A and B channels, should go to A+ and B+ on the Kanalog board.

Pretty sure 0V means 0 volts or rather GND on the Kanalog board

I0 maybe means Index, but I don't fully understand the IO (I0?)  The fact that the wire is black is also a bit confusing, could it be another color?  Maybe black with a stripe of a different color?

Green ground, probably means the shield ground. 

I would replace the encoders with differential output encoders (A, A\, B, B\), the single ended output can cause problems with electrical noise.  The Kanalog board will accept differential input.  In fact, you might want to install magnetic scales on the table and Z, better accuracy than having the encoder on the motor.


My X axis magnetic scale


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## jeepguy88

All the axis have two black wires,  one going to OV and one going to IO. I'll try and do some more digging and see if I can find some more info. 
All this and I forgot to order a power supply for the kanalog board....


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## JimDawson

That is strange, the two black wires is a bit confusing.  Maybe you can find a part number on the encoder itself, there may be some documentation available.


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## jeepguy88

Didnt really find any info on the motors, other than they are 1000 encoders. Im going to assume the blacks are A-B-. If White and green are A+ and B+ then black would be A-and B- . Maybe Fargor labeled them weird just for giggles.
I had to order a little stepdown transformer for the kflop board. I have 24vdc in the box, Ill tap the 24vdc for the 24vdc to 5vdc transformer. Also have a 24vdc to 12vdc transformer for the kflop board too, but not sure I need 12v to the board.
Maybe in a few days Ill see if this all works, or if I burn the garage down.


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## JimDawson

jeepguy88 said:


> Im going to assume the blacks are A-B-. If White is A+ then black would be A-.



That picture tells the story, hadn't seen it before.  Now I understand.   I don't think you have encoders at all, but rather resolvers.

A~ and B~ depict a 1V P-P sine wave for a sine/cos type encoder

Io and /Io are the index pulse

If A, /A, B, /B are not connected, then those encoders are not going to work with the Kanalog, it wants to see a square wave quadrature encoder.

Looks like the Fagor control can be configured to work with either type of output.

Exactly which pin is each wire connected to?


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## Karl_T

Looks like you need to install new encoders. I found this company has a large selection of kits for refitting to servos








						Incremental
					

US Digital designs and manufactures optical encoders, inclinometers & motion control components. Our complete product line includes either absolute or incremental optical encoder & inclinometer products, stepper motors, PC interfaces, and digital readout.




					www.usdigital.com


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## Karl_T

I should mention I went cheap and got single end US digital encoders for my Hardinge CHNC years ago.  Worked fine UNLESS the turret was moving while an axis moved. Then the noise caused a position change. Ruined parts was the result. It drove me nucking futs finding this issue.

Ever sense, differential encoders is the only way to go. 

karl


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## jeepguy88

I tried drawing a pic in paint. 
Maybe I can take apart the servos and take some photos I wouldnt know the difference between encoders or resolvers.  Ill get a few more photos of the back of the Fagor box too.


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## JimDawson

OK, that tells the story.  You do have single ended quadrature encoders.  Only using A, B, and I.  They are not sine/cos encoders.  Not the best, but will work, but as stated above, subject to electrical noise.  These would connect to A, B, and I (or Z) on the Kanalog board.  /A, /B, and /I would not be connected.


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## jeepguy88

Wow Jim! Your knowledge is impressive!. Resolvers, encoders, single ended quadrature all new words today for me. 
What are the draw backs or positives of these single ended quadrature encoders? The table will be skipping .01 or like .00001? 
What is the sideways money symbols? On the back of the fargor box?


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## JimDawson

I've just been doing this for a few years.   Thank you.

A~ and B~ depict a 1V Peak to Peak sine wave for a sine/cos type encoder.  Not common today, but used a lot back in the day.  Digital electronics has improved a lot in the last 30 years.

Single ended quadrature encoders are subject to electrical noise, and thus might add pulses to the positioning which means that it is possible to come up short on a move.  Or pulses may be added when it is just sitting there.  Overall not a good situation.  Why they would have used those in the original installation is beyond me.  The cost difference is about 0, at least today, and there is no advantage to using single ended output encoders.

Modern electronics (Kanalog board in your case) are much more sensitive to electrical noise because of the lower switching currents used.  The old stuff required a bit more current to switch, so was more immune to external electrical noise.

Differential quadrature (line driver output) encoders are almost noise immune and much more reliable.


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## jeepguy88

Ill just wrap some wires with tin foil to make a noise filter....lol jk. 
Lots to take in today. 
My skill level is not to uber precision part making, so Ill probably be alright. 
Going to work on making a drawbar today while I wait for those step down transformers.


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## Karl_T

FWIW, differential was considerable more expensive 20 years ago. I got single end on my Excello mill, very similar to your mill. It has ran without issue for 18 years with camsoft.

Today, the cost  difference is almost nothing.


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## jeepguy88

Karl_T said:


> It has ran without issue for 18 years with camsoft.


Thats good to hear, hopefully I dont run into too much trouble.


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## jeepguy88

Feel like I'm getting close to at least trying to turn a servo. 
Got X axis servo driver and encoder wired, Kflop is wired 5v and 12v and hooked to the computer. 
I've got to to track down a few wires that go to the power on button that powered the servos on. I think. I'm not sure what power source this is connected to. Track that down tomorrow and then firgure out some software stuff then work on limit switches. Are my next few steps.


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## jeepguy88

I was successul in getting the 24v dc power buttons to work. I was successul in gettting my computer talking to the kflop board. I feel like these where some big hurdles. Off to the next hurtle. Which might have been part of the original death of this machine...lol When the fagor control box was plugged into the axis the power switch would not turn anything on. Hold the button down and the servo amplifiers would power on, but not stay on. Unplug the fagor control box, press the power button and the servo amplifiers would stay on by themselves. hmm. As of today, the servo amplifiers only stay on when the power button is held down. Im wondering if this has something to do with the limit switches. The Y axis limit switches I can hear click and then make a annoying alarm type sound? The y axis limit switches are dripping with oil...so could be a problem. Another dumb noob question are the limit switches plugged in to the kanalog board or are they supposed to be lugged into the servo amplifier cards? This machine has two differnent style of switches. I found a fried limit switch on the z axis.


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## Karl_T

Jim is a miracle worker, but I don't think even he can trace wiring over the 'net.

My suggestion, you got too big a problem, break it down to bite size chunks.  leave the belts off the servos, jump all the limit switches.  There may be other stuff you can jumper. See if you can get the servos to power when hitting the reset, then stop on Estop. Only when you got that, look at adding more devieces.

Just the concept here, adjust for your situation.

Karl


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## JimDawson

It could be that the limit switches are connected to the servo enable circuit.

I would expect a click sound from a limit switch, but I have never heard a limit switch make an alarm sound.  Normally the limit switches are sealed so some oil should not be a problem.

I would expect the limit switches to be plugged into the Kanalog board.

Small snap switches are common on the Z axis, the X and Y axes should have more conventional limit switches.


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## jeepguy88

thanks for the quick replies!
I was mistaken its not the limit switches. It was the Y axis motor that is making noise. Its got a roller looking type limit switch for X and Y and some click lever or the Z. 
I just took apart the Y axis limit switches and they look fine inside their box was dry. The outside is under the saddle and it was pretty dirty. 


Karl_T said:


> See if you can get the servos to power when hitting the reset, then stop on Estop


Thats the general idea Im working at. I have the belts off 
I might have the limit switches wired in on accident. There was a 3phase contact starter that had some 24vdc wires controling part of it. I might have tied the wrong 24v wires together.


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## jeepguy88

Im thinking pull all the limit switch wiring, if they need to be rewired to the kanalog board any.?


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## jeepguy88

I got a servo to turn. This is not the normal good news, this is bad news. lol. I have the X axis pluged into the kanalog and X servo amplifier and X axis encoder wired. I unluged all the limit switches, and unpluged the Y axis from its servo amplifier card,sense it was making the noise.  Turn on the power switch, and the Y axis servo starts to spin.....lol Wrong axis! wrong Button! but Im making a little progress. Going look over the 24v dc system again tomorrow and try and figure out what and where more of the relays go and do. I think my mystery lies in there somewhere.


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## JimDawson

OOPS   A little wiring error, we've all been there.


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## jeepguy88

My machine has lost like 20lbs of copper wire.....lol
2 things that are probably simple but I dont understand. 
1)The ServoDynamics board, I can figure out what power supply this runs off of or where it comes from
2) The 5v supply for the encoders coming off the kanalog board. I dont have anything. Im guessing Im suppose to run 5v to this? Or The board is supposed to be grounded? I thought the 5v running to the kflop would have taken care of this?


----------



## JimDawson

The power for the SD boards comes from the big transformer, through the bridge rectifier, and the large blue cap.  What switches on the transformer may be a contactor or a solid state relay.  Both are used depending on the manufacturer.  The solid state relay, next to the fuse block, is probably what switches the transformer.  You are going to have to trace some wires.  Coming off of the cap, the red wires are positive, and the gray wires are negative.  The SD boards are directly wired to the cap.

Remember when I suggested creating an I/O map of everything that is there now?    


Not sure why you don't have 5V on the Kanalog board, is it powered up?


----------



## jeepguy88

Ok as far as the SD boards goes, thats starting to make sense. There is a SSR. I didnt see anything in the SD boards manual about what exactly was powering them or where it plugs into the board. I was going to try and double check the input is correct.

The KFlop powers the Kanalog? I have 5vDC and 12vDC to the Kflop. I thought Kflop powered Kanalog? Checked for 5volts on  the Kanalog on JP8 where its says 5v and ground on JP6. I didnt see this or dont understand the Kanalog Connector page on the website


----------



## JimDawson

That's interesting, there does not seem to be any reference to what jumper powers up the SD board.  But I think it's J5.  Wherever the red and gray wires are connected is the power connection.  I never bothered to look at mine.  It's the bottom connector on the board.

From the Kanalog manual
*''JP8 - FET Switch Outputs (relay drivers) - watchdog - power outputs*

_(4) +5V outputs are available to power low current (<100ma) external circuitry such as encoders. Normally +5V is applied to Kflop JR1 (4 pin white Molex connector) and passes through the ribbon connector to Kanalog. However it is also possible to feed +5V into the system via these terminals. If +5V power is fed into both Kflop and Kanalog the exact same +5V supply must be connected to both.''_

It looks like you could grab the 5V encoder power and GND from anywhere that you have 5V as long as it's all the same power supply.


----------



## jeepguy88

JimDawson said:


> That's interesting, there does not seem to be any reference to what jumper powers up the SD board. But I think it's J5. Wherever the red and gray wires are connected is the power connection. I never bothered to look at mine. It's the bottom connector on the board


Ok. Makes sense. Im kinda working backwards from the SD boards to my power switch. There seems to be a few relays inbetween that Im not sure about. 

Kanalog, ah got it, 5v IN on the J8. I thought 5v in on KFLOP would be 5v out on the kanalog. I'll wire up the 5v for the encoders off the 5v powersupply for kflop


----------



## Karl_T

dunno if this is any help but I'll share my methods.  I've done six or eight new controls depending on how you count. One of my first, I did pretty much as you are doing - tried to clean up an almost running control. I got it running then something would break and I was lost again. Spent WAY more time than starting over and still did not have something easy to maintain.


For power supplied to devices, all the supplies are in one corner of the enclosure. there will be a row of little fuses for each voltage, one per device.  In the case of +5V a wire for the Kfllop numbered 105, a wire for the encoders numbered 106, etc. NO DAISY CHAINING ALLOWED.  In my case I use red wire for all the +5 volt. I also keep a spreadsheet of each wire number, where it starts, and ends, and its function. Its not a EE print, but its easy to record as you go and plenty of info for years from now when something breaks.


----------



## jeepguy88

Well.... todays progress report.......
Im learning some kmotion software. Seems like the options are endless. Im not sure if poking around here or poking around the control panel wires makes my head hurt more....lol
I did remember that when the old controller was plugged in, and the power button was pressed, nothing would happen but a alarm kinda sound, unplug the Fagor controller and hit the power button, all the axis would start to move. Im getting the same thing going on now, If  I unplug the J1 labeled connector from the servo drivers, press the power button, the fans kick on and the servos spin. Plug the J1 into the servo drivers, press the power button, no fan comes on,but power is applyed to the servos locking thier rotation, resulting in the high pitched alarm type sound Im hearing.
The only thing pluged in to J1 on the SD is Pin2 Signal input PIN3 Tach PIn 4 ground. Pin 2 is connected to JP11DAC#1 for X axis. PIn3 is connected to motor ground and JP11 ground on kanalog. 

I dont think i have the encoders wired correctly . I have A+B+and I(Z). ON Kanalog JP1 A wired to  A+1 B wired to B+1 and I wired to JP2 A4+ read on the kanalog connections web page Z was to be wired to JP2. 
Pretty sure kmotion isnt seeing any encoder for any axis.


----------



## JimDawson

jeepguy88 said:


> Well.... todays progress report.......
> Im learning some kmotion software. Seems like the options are endless. Im not sure if poking around here or poking around the control panel wires makes my head hurt more....lol







> I did remember that when the old controller was plugged in, and the power button was pressed, nothing would happen but a alarm kinda sound, unplug the Fagor controller and hit the power button, all the axis would start to move. Im getting the same thing going on now, If  I unplug the J1 labeled connector from the servo drivers, press the power button, the fans kick on and the servos spin. Plug the J1 into the servo drivers, press the power button, no fan comes on,but power is applyed to the servos locking thier rotation, resulting in the high pitched alarm type sound Im hearing.



I don't understand why the fans don't come on under all conditions, but maybe there is an ''OK'' or ''Ready'' signal from the drive that is switching on the fan relay.  I removed all of that type of original control wiring in mine, and replaced it with my own relays and switching.  I turn the fans on with the same relay that fires up the servo power.

The high pitched sound is the PWM carrier frequency.  I lucked out and don't have that noise on my mill.  But the Shizuoka Z axis is really loud, and I've not been able to get rid of it, but the X & Y are fine.  I suspect it's something ''loose'' in the motor.



> The only thing pluged in to J1 on the SD is Pin2 Signal input PIN3 Tach PIn 4 ground. Pin 2 is connected to JP11DAC#1 for X axis. PIn3 is connected to motor ground and JP11 ground on kanalog



I assume by ''motor ground'' that you mean the tach signal ground on pin 3.



> I dont think i have the encoders wired correctly . I have A+B+and I(Z). ON Kanalog JP1 A wired to  A+1 B wired to B+1 and I wired to JP2 A4+ read on the kanalog connections web page Z was to be wired to JP2.
> Pretty sure kmotion isnt seeing any encoder for any axis.



If everything is wired up correctly, with the SD power off and the kanalog powered up, you should be able to turn the motor by hand and the kanalog should read the encoder.  Are you getting power to the encoders, and do you have the encoder 0V wire connected back to the 5V return (common or -)

We need to define ''ground'' a bit better here.  When talking about signal wiring ''ground'' normally refers to 0V or a common return, rather than an earth ground.  This can be a bit confusing when two different terminals are called ''ground''  In many cases the 0V may be connected to earth ground, but sometimes is left floating.  A long as I have transformer isolation, I normally connect all of the 0V lines to earth ground.

In power wiring, in most cases ground means an earth ground.


----------



## Karl_T

I've found good standard (for me at least) wiring practices REALLY help on down the road when something breaks.

Always use white wire for DC common. All wires go back to the DC common terminal block. End up with more white wire than anything in the machine.  In my case DC common is bonded to the machine in only one spot - near the terminal block.

Always use red wire for 5V and number every one at both ends, all power comes from individual fuses normally 0.1 amp.

I try to use +DC 24 volt for most logic. Its always a blue wire number on both ends and comes from a +24 volt fuse bank. They are in small groups - X and Y home and limits - Z home and limits - users panel buttons - etc.

I try to always use sourcing normally closed on all I O.  ( some control computers may not permit this)  But the point is to always do it the same. I like this cause a voltmeter can quickly check each and every input at the control to find or eliminate hardware issues.

I try real hard to use other wire colors for signals and keep them the same for similar functions  - X home Y home Z home are all purple. +limits all brown, etc. These wires will all be numbered at both ends. I often use the terminal number on the control board as the wire number

I keep a spread sheet of every wire - color - number - ID of each end - function. I find this far easier than making a EE print cause you just do it as you go. And its plenty of notes for later when trouble comes.

Take the extra time at build pays HUGE dividends down the road.


I know some of this is redundant to my earlier post. I do think its important enough to repeat.

Karl


----------



## Karl_T

jeepguy88 said:


> ...
> 
> I dont think i have the encoders wired correctly . I have A+B+and I(Z). ON Kanalog JP1 A wired to  A+1 B wired to B+1 and I wired to JP2 A4+ read on the kanalog connections web page Z was to be wired to JP2.
> Pretty sure kmotion isnt seeing any encoder for any axis.



Get yourself a logic probe





						Elenco Electronics Lp-560 Logic Probe Electronics Testing Tool - Circuit Testers - Amazon.com
					

Elenco Electronics Lp-560 Logic Probe Electronics Testing Tool - Circuit Testers - Amazon.com



					www.amazon.com
				




check for signal at the control.


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## jeepguy88

I really appreciate all the help. Im sure answering newbie questions gets old.  Seems like on most of the other forums people run into more complicated problems further down the line, my step in this process should already be a known given.....lol  



JimDawson said:


> We need to define ''ground'' a bit better here. When talking about signal wiring ''ground'' normally refers to 0V or a common return, rather than an earth ground.


AH! yes, thats a problem I recognize now.



jeepguy88 said:


> The only thing pluged in to J1 on the SD is Pin2 Signal input PIN3 Tach PIn 4 ground. Pin 2 is connected to JP11DAC#1 for X axis. PIn3 is connected to motor ground and JP11 ground on kanalog


That didnt come out correctly, let me rephrase and try again.
Pin2 on the SD is connected to JP11 terminal1 
PIN3 on SD is Tach input, this is connected to the servo motor. I didnt touch
PIN4 on SD had 2 wires pluged in one going to what looks like the same location as the tach on pin3, the other, wire #2 looks like it goes to somewhere with the limit switches. I connected a 3rd wire here,  PIN4 going to Ground on JP11. Ground to common problem here?

When the servo motor was making its noise it was applying voltage to both legs? At least thats what I measured on the bus bar.

Im going to work on the encoders today. I have do have the 5v negative wired to a ground when it looks like it should be wired to a 0v 



Karl_T said:


> Get yourself a logic probe


 Done. I dont have that in my tool box and looks like it might be useful. 

Seems like most of the wiring in the box is color coordinated. And Im trying to stay the same. So when Im done it lookes nice and clean and professional.


----------



## JimDawson

jeepguy88 said:


> I connected a 3rd wire here, PIN4 going to Ground on JP11. Ground to common problem here?



I think you have it wired correctly



> When the servo motor was making its noise it was applying voltage to both legs? At least thats what I measured on the bus bar.



There should be some voltage across the 2 legs of the motor.  That's what is holding it in position.  You would not measure to ground here, just across the motor leads.  Bus bar?  Not sure where you are measuring here.


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## jeepguy88

Getting some where now! I partially took the X servo motor apart and looked at the encoder for some clues. Its a DataMetrics model 5-9872.  A google search didnt provide any info. But .....The terminals on the encoder are labeled for # and function! worlds of info! lol The wires exciting them are also labeled which made a huge help. As o right now I have the encoders reading position in Kmotion on the axis screen. Turn the servo and the postion # changes. Feel like Im getting somewhere.  lol 

The encoder on the servo is labeled for AA BB and MM on the encoder. Doesnt say + or - but has a small dash line above one of the letters. Im currently using
1 5v+ 
2) common.  
3)A
4)B
5)M (z?)

Still leaves A B M with lines above them not being used.

This axis servo motor looks alot newer than the other two. I try and pull the baldor motors apart and see if I can get any clues from the encoders


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## JimDawson

jeepguy88 said:


> Still leaves A B M with lines above them not being used.



Use them, that is a differential quadrature output


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## jeepguy88

Roger that.
Let me try and open the other servo motors to see if I can learn something from them.

Heres a photo of where I was measuring for voltage. The #1labeled white is common all through the box. I have 6volts on 321 and 322 which go to the servos. Seems like I should have 0 volts when I turn the power button on?


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## jeepguy88

All three servo motors have the same model of encoder.  
What does the M stand for?


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## Karl_T

jeepguy88 said:


> All three servo motors have the same model of encoder.
> What does the M stand for?



got to be the index mark


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## JimDawson

jeepguy88 said:


> Heres a photo of where I was measuring for voltage. The #1labeled white is common all through the box. I have 6volts on 321 and 322 which go to the servos. Seems like I should have 0 volts when I turn the power button on?



That looks like a multi-voltage power supply.  Not sure what the 321 and 322 do.  What jumper and pins are they connected to on the drives?


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## jeepguy88

321 and 322 go to the servo motor. All the black numbers go to the servo motors. They are connected to J5 on the servo drives. Looks like pin 7&8?

Ive got X and Y servo encoders talking to the computer. Y shouldnt be a problem.


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## JimDawson

jeepguy88 said:


> 321 and 322 go to the servo motor. All the black numbers go to the servo motors. They are connected to J5 on the servo drives. Looks like pin 7&8?



OK then those are the motor power wires.  So checking to wire #1 won't tell you much since they aren't referenced to ground.  You just measure between 321 and 322 to get the armature voltage.


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## jeepguy88

Ah, gotcha.
Should be 0 when I turn the machine on or should there be a little voltage to lock the motor? And the fans should come on? I feel like one of the relays is suppling power to something its not suppose to


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## JimDawson

I would expect some voltage when turned on.  That's how the rotor is locked.  If it under proper control of the Kanalog board, the voltage should increase as you attempt to turn the motor shaft, thus trying to maintain position.

As far as the fans, they should come on when the drives are powered up.  I would rewire the relays so they are under your control.  Originally they may have been under the control of the Fagor controller.  In my cabinet there is one fan that comes on at system power up for general cabinet air flow, the two servo drive cooling fans are wired into the same relay that powers up the the drives, thus only come on when the drives are powered up.  The drives themselves do not control my fans.


----------



## jeepguy88

I will have to go back and work on the relays. 
Turn the power on I get a couple of rotations on the X axis then stops.
X axis I get .04ish volts. Its fluctuation a little bit
Y axis has .03 volts and 
Y axis 0
X axis encoder was reading as the motor was turning. 
Y axis encoder was going, but the motor wasnt turning? Turn the motor by hand and the encoder seems to read smooth and normal?


----------



## JimDawson

jeepguy88 said:


> Y axis encoder was going, but the motor wasnt turning? Turn the motor by hand and the encoder seems to read smooth and normal?



Electrical noise.  Time to connect the /A, /B, and /M on all of the encoders.  As I mentioned before, modern electronics are more sensitive to electrical noise than the old stuff.

Also, due to the waveform of the servo drive PWM output, you may not be able to accurately measure the voltage across the armature, you really need a scope to do this correctly.  Nothing to worry about as long as it works OK.


----------



## jeepguy88

I did connect /A,/B/M. I think the connection inside the encoder might be bad. The screw for the terminal was seized on /B and /M. The post the screw is in broke free before the screw did. ? The wires for the encoder are shielded and wraped with a naked wire thats not connected to anything, should this be tied to a earth ground?


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## JimDawson

That is not good.  You will need to fix the connection.

The shield wire should be connected at one end only, either to earth or signal ground, depending on which works the best.  I normally make the connection at the panel end.


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## jeepguy88

Im not sure how the encoders are attached to shaft. I dont see a key. They seem to be attached with a spring looking shaft.

I do have some relay issues I need to track down. I pulled all the relays, and I can still press the power button and hold it down and it provides power to the SD.


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## JimDawson

Normally encoders are attached with some kind of flexible coupling.  I have even used a short piece of air hose and hose clamps.  Also many tome the encoders are mounted on a flex plate of some kind, the idea is to allow the encoder to radialy and axialy float with a solid rotational joint.

My best guess is that the servo power button is directly connected to the servo SSR, and that is sealed in by one of the other relays.  The E-stop should be in series with the servo power button.

Here is the way mine is wired


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## jeepguy88

Think I found a small issue. (One of many, lol)The SD drivers are not turing on. I have 120vAC the the SD driver when my power button is pressed. Checked for 15v on pin J4, thats affirmed. Reading the Trouble shooting section of the SD manual, pin 14&15 are supposed to "pulled low"? I removed these and disconnected, all the limit switches.  . What does pulled low mean? and What should I be doing with pin 14&15.


----------



## JimDawson

If the jumpers have been cut, I think to override the limit switch connection on pins 14 and 15, you need to connect those pins to pin 9 or 11 (power supply common & ground) (pulled low = connected to ground)


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## jeepguy88

Had to order some molex connectors. Going to be a few days delay. 
Ill work on encoders for a the next few days till the molex connectors get here


----------



## jeepguy88

I couldnt wait... i made some little jumpers.
Ive only got the X axis servo driver plugged in. Everything  is disconnected from from the other two servo drives.
Pins 14 and 15 are tied to together and connected to pin 11
Press power on and the fans dont come on and the servo motor slowly slowly turns.
press the reset button on the SD and nothing happens. Other than the servo does not get any juice, stops moving only while the reset button is held down.
I would think that the fans turning on would be indication that the SD is on.
Tried the 1.5v battery in series, applied to pin 2. Nothing. Make sure I was doing this right I connected the signal wire to the negative end of the battery and a 1kohm resistor to the positive and touched the number 2 pin.
Not sure what I should try next.

Im not sure if something should be done with A/B jumpers on J2, they where plugged in part of the fagor control box


----------



## JimDawson

The motor slowly turning when the drive is powered up is fine for now.  That just means that the balance is not exactly correct, but this is not a problem at all, at least at this stage.

A 1.5V battery connected between pins 2 and 4 on J1 should cause the motor to spin up at about 300 RPM or so.

The A/B jumper should be in the A position for single ended operation, this is what you are using.  This allows pin2 on J1 to be active.  As far as I know, J2 is not used at all in the current configuration.  The Fagor system may have used the J2 pins, but they will not be used in the new configuration with the Kanalog.

I still am unclear where the fan power is coming from.  Those should be 120VAC fans, but double check that.  I have mine wired to the SSR so they come on at the same time the servos are powered up.


----------



## jeepguy88

Sounds like Im slowly bumbling my way through.
I did not do the battery test correctly.   I do have a 1kohm resistor in there.
A/B jumper was in B. That was easy to correct.
The fans are 120v AC. Connected to the SSR. The relays are all wired to the power switch. Press Power on, and I have 120vAC at the terminals 1&4 , which is connected to the fans. Power too fans, but do not turn on.


----------



## JimDawson

As best I can tell from the photo a few posts ago, the SSR seems to be a 120V control side, so terminal 4 would be connected to the neutral wire, and terminal 1 would be the 120V feed from the power.  What is the part number on the SSR? I can't read it in the photo.

So with 120V across those terminals, and those terminals connected to the fans, the fans should run.  Either both fans are fried (unlikely) or they are not actually connected. Maybe tracing some wires would be in order.


----------



## jeepguy88

One more problem solved. Im rather embarassed to say what the fan problem was. There was a broken piece of zip tie in there. I pulled the plug on the fan...confirmed 120v. Tried to turn the fan, it was stuck, found a broken zip tie in there.


----------



## jeepguy88

MY X AXIS IS ALIVE!!!!!!!!
Exciting.
Its kinda doing its own thing, but its alive non the less. 
Feel like I have cleared a pretty big hurtle.
I'll have to do a bunch of reading on how to tune the servo. 
Cant thank you enough Jim for helping and teaching to get me this far.


----------



## JimDawson

Yes, you have cleared a big hurdle    Sorry I can't help you with the tuning, I have never worked with the Kanalog controller.  I wouldn't worry about trying to tune the SD drives themselves, they should be close enough for now.

It's my pleasure to help out where I can.


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## jeepguy88

Well those encoders where a really fun to figure out. I had to run some wires to the terminals on the caps pretty easy once I figured out what was going on. lol
Have all of them wired up correctly and reading. All differential encoders now.
X and Y servos appear to check out, just need to fine tune them. 
Y axis servo is having some troubles, and I think its related to the Y axis SD. 
In post #74 I circled wires #321 and #322. Measuring from the DC common on the capcitor to here I get 6v. Measuring the voltage on #291,292,266,267 I get 50v. These are the leads to the servo motors. I think the servo driver controls this? 6volts doesnt seem to be enough to control the motor with kmotion.


----------



## JimDawson

What exactly do wires #321 and #322 connect to?


----------



## jeepguy88

The power for the Z axis motor


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## JimDawson

So the Z axis motor is not working?  If you measuring 6 V across those wires that might be about the holding voltage.

The SD should output a voltage to the motor that is roughly proportional to the input command voltage, at a ratio of about 10:1


----------



## jeepguy88

The other end is connected to the servo driver


----------



## jeepguy88

Correct Z axis is not working.
6v isnt enought to hold the motor. Its the same motor as my Y axis. Im guessing it needs to be around 50v? like the other two? I tried playing around with the pots on the SD but didnt get any change in voltage. I put the pots back to the position I started in.


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## JimDawson

At 50V that motor would be running at about 800 RPM.  You have to measure across the motor power wires to read the voltage going to the motor, not read to the power supply common on the cap.


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## jeepguy88

1.9v for X
1.0v for Y
0.0v for X


----------



## JimDawson

What is the output voltage from the Kanalog to the Z axis drive? And does it change when you try to jog the Z?


----------



## jeepguy88

There is small jump on the kanalog for the Z axis. maybe .8v. Thats in the step screen, if I try and jog it in kmotioncnc it just disables the drive


----------



## jeepguy88

Watching the Analog I/O on Kanalog the DACs for Z drive command up to 3v


----------



## JimDawson

jeepguy88 said:


> There is small jump on the kanalog for the Z axis. maybe .8v. Thats in the step screen, if I try and jog it in kmotioncnc it just disables the drive



Why does it disable the drive?

3 volts should run the motor at around 200 RPM I think.  Is that voltage actually getting to the drive?


----------



## jeepguy88

Ill try and track down the wires and measure at the servo motor. I would think that it would need a little voltage at idle to hold in place coming from the SD.  Is there a way to turn the SD up a little?


----------



## JimDawson

I would expect that the motor voltage would be zero if there is no torque on the motor trying to move it out of position.  When at idle I would expect some jitter in the voltage around zero volts.  A digital meter would read + and -.

The ''Sig'' pot would have the effect of adjusting the output by increasing (or decreasing) the effect of the command voltage.  This should not be adjusted until you get the motor to actually run.


----------



## jeepguy88

I can confirm that Kanalog is sending out a input voltage when commanded. I think its safe to rule out the Kanalog. 
I can not get a voltage reading a voltage reading from the SD when commanded like the Kanalog. I guess Ill have to pull the SD out to get a better inspection. On shut down I get a flash from the voltage light just like the other two SD. Makes me think that its working.  Any idea how I can test the tachometer on the servo motor?


----------



## JimDawson

Assuming your wiring is correct, then it's sounding like you could have a bad drive.

The tach can be tested by connecting a volt meter and turning the motor shaft.  I think that one is 7 volts/1000 RPM.


----------



## jeepguy88

Yeah I have a feeling the servo drive is damaged. It would just be my luck. Im a little leery to swap drives for testing, Id probably burn another one up....lol 
I measured the tac on Z axis and with its 0 command Im getting .047v. X and Y where only .001v


----------



## jeepguy88

I swapped amplifiers with the Y axis. Z motor turns on and seems to function just fine. It is a problem with the Z axis servo amplifier. Is there some known issues that are easy to identify? Maybe my best bet would be to find a used one off ebay?


----------



## jeepguy88

Like a part on the ServoDynmics board known to cause problems?  
It looks like my X and Y axis SD might have been replaced at some point. They are much cleaner looking have suble differnces and the serial numbers are pretty far each other. The Z axis is really really dirty in comparision and has a low serial number.


----------



## JimDawson

I've never had a problem with one of them, so don't know how to fix it.  Used from Ebay might be a good option.  Contact H-M member Jake2465, I think he has 3 spares


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## JimDawson

It could be as simple as replacing the 4 power transistors.  Those should be available from any electronics supply, cheap.  Get the part numbers and I'l see what I can find.


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## jeepguy88

Through this whole process I found Im really good at shorting things. 
I dont see any makings on the power transistors.
The MDA25 "fuse" looked like it had bad solder joints. Fixed those. When I pluged the SD back in I got some sparks. I thought it was unpluged and off. nope. It keeps popping a time delay fuse when its turned on now. Failed at that repair. 
The other two SD still work. phew. 
Looks like Ill be shoping for a new Servodrive.


----------



## JimDawson

That failure mode does indicate a shorted power transistor.  I'll see what I can find, I'll check mine tomorrow.  H-M Member Jake2465 may have 3 spare drives.


----------



## macardoso

You guys are having too mach fun   

Would love to see the whole machine and/or a wide shot of the panel.


----------



## jeepguy88

You don't want to see inside the panel. It's like gazing at Medusa. Bad things will happen. At least bad things happen when I look. Lol
I'll add some photos here soon


----------



## jeepguy88

Alright! Back to working again. One Klop board and one servo amplifer later I now have 3 axis under computer control. Small to do list now. 
1) limit switches.
I think I will wire 4 limit switches to the kanalog with 24v. 1 for x 1 for y and 2 for z. X&Y have a track bar system with pegs to hit a limit switch. Z has a block that will will be hitting a switch at the bottom and a switch at the top. Seems like I would want a home switch for the top of Z access, so that the quill is in the right spot for changing out tools. Can I wire all 4 together or should the top of Z be wired to Kanalog by itself? 
2)Tune the motors
3)Download Mach3 or 4 and figure out how to control the VFD
4)Clean up the wires in the control box. 
5)Learn G-code lol
6)Done.


----------



## macardoso

jeepguy88 said:


> Alright! Back to working again. One Klop board and one servo amplifer later I now have 3 axis under computer control. Small to do list now.
> 1) limit switches.
> I think I will wire 4 limit switches to the kanalog with 24v. 1 for x 1 for y and 2 for z. X&Y have a track bar system with pegs to hit a limit switch. Z has a block that will will be hitting a switch at the bottom and a switch at the top. Seems like I would want a home switch for the top of Z access, so that the quill is in the right spot for changing out tools. Can I wire all 4 together or should the top of Z be wired to Kanalog by itself?
> 2)Tune the motors
> 3)Download Mach3 or 4 and figure out how to control the VFD
> 4)Clean up the wires in the control box.
> 5)Learn G-code lol
> 6)Done.




Unless you're hurting for I/O, wire each limit switch individually. Then you know which limit is triggered and how to correct wiring issues if they are present. 

What VFD are you using?


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## jeepguy88

Wire them individually is probably wise.
Ive got 6 I/O for limit switches. That would leave me with one open or a touch plate. 
Running a Lapond VFD that I got of Amazon


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## jeepguy88

Measuring on the voltmeter the 24v system is more like 25.8v. Is that safe for the 24v rating on the the Kanalog? Should I run a 12v source for the limit switches?


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## JimDawson

Happy to hear you got the wheels turning. 

Most industrial 24V inputs will take about 30V max, but I'm not sure on the Kanalog.  Dynomotion is going to have to answer that one for you.  Many times power supplies are adjustable, you may be able to adjust the output.


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## jeepguy88

Thanks! 
Im afraid to plug anything into anything anymore lol


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## jeepguy88

With the holiday hustle I was able to try the machine out on made a little plate for my other mill. Come out not the purdiest but I made it. Lol 
It took me two days just to make the little part in fusion360. I've still got quite a few things to figure out on Fusion but I was able to make something. 
I had the feeds way to fast. But it cleaned up alright. There was a hole to see the belts and it needed a cover. Was the only piece of flat stock I had laying around I made it work. 
And here is a little shot of the inside of the cabinet all cleaned up. 
I don't have to vfd hooked up to the computer. Haven't figured that out. And I'd like to get a air selnoid to make that automated as well. And then more Fusion. 
Big thanks to all who helped share your knowledge.


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## greenail

jeepguy88 said:


> With the holiday hustle I was able to try the machine out on made a little plate for my other mill. Come out not the purdiest but I made it. Lol
> It took me two days just to make the little part in fusion360. I've still got quite a few things to figure out on Fusion but I was able to make something.
> I had the feeds way to fast. But it cleaned up alright. There was a hole to see the belts and it needed a cover. Was the only piece of flat stock I had laying around I made it work.
> And here is a little shot of the inside of the cabinet all cleaned up.
> I don't have to vfd hooked up to the computer. Haven't figured that out. And I'd like to get a air selnoid to make that automated as well. And then more Fusion.
> Big thanks to all who helped share your knowledge.



Investing in fusion is a good idea so don't let the initial learning curve bother you.  I'm very glad I did and i find that after I made the initial investment in learning I can make parts very very fast.

A few tips off the top of my head.

1.  The sketch mirror function is really handy.  Think about how you might use it when choosing your origin and initial layout.  Center rectangles are kinda key to this as they give you a centered point to use for mirroring.

2.  Sometimes a new sketch is better than using the hole tool.

3.  Sometimes sketching a feature once is better than trying to work them all in a sketch.  The patter tools allow you to take a combine/cut and reuse it.

4.  watch some videos on how to model threads with and without the thread tool.  some good features to learn in there for other things.

5.  the FEA simulations are really handy and fairly easy to get started with.  worth watching a few videos.

6.  the learning curve in the cam mode was much steeper for me, I should invest in watching more how to videos on how to do cam templates.

7.  parameterizing parts is great but it is sometimes better to restart from scratch vs trying to parameterize and existing design.

8.  Learn how to use both as-built joints and regular joints.  As-built joints are nice but hard to change and I've found it better to make the parts in separate files and then assemble them in a new file with as-built joints since they can make it a bit hard to make changes.  Regular joints really help test your design and are easier to make updates around.


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## JimDawson

Looking good!


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