# Pros and cons of the PM-1340GT lathe



## Pcmaker (Jan 10, 2021)

My next purchase is going to be the PM1340GT. I currently have the PM1127 and I think it should be a substantial upgrade. My PM1127 has been a good lathe for the last couple of years, but I hate switching gears to thread and switching again to feed.

I also don't like the carriage lock when you have a DRO installed.  The steady rest and follow rest are also horrendous, but they work once you do some serious modifications.

I know the PM-1340GT is a popular machine, so I want know from the owner here the pros and cons of the machine. Also, how much of a hassle is it to go from inch to metric when threading?


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## davidpbest (Jan 10, 2021)

I will DM you my thoughts.


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## 7milesup (Jan 10, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> I will DM you my thoughts.


Nooooooooo.  You should DM your thoughts right here.  Just spill them out right here.  We are all friends.  Maybe.  Sort of.  
Or, DM them to me too!
What the heck is DM.  I know what a PM is, but DM.....


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## davidpbest (Jan 10, 2021)

7milesup said:


> Nooooooooo.  You should DM your thoughts right here.  Just spill them out right here.  We are all friends.  Maybe.  Sort of.
> Or, DM them to me too!
> What the heck is DM.  I know what a PM is, but DM.....


DM - Direct Message


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## 7milesup (Jan 10, 2021)

One of the design parameters that surprised me on the 1340GT is how the gearbox oiling system is designed.  If I understand correctly, based on Dave's, and others, modifications, is that the gearbox is not an oil bath system.  If that is the case, I find that very strange, but maybe that is the norm on this price point of a lathe?


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## 7milesup (Jan 10, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> DM - Direct Message


Thanks.  Never heard of that.   PM, sure.


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## davidpbest (Jan 10, 2021)

The Norton gearbox is open-bottom and drip fed oil from above.  You need a drip bucket like this:


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## NCjeeper (Jan 10, 2021)

Yeah my Enco 13x40 is an open gear box also.


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## wrmiller (Jan 11, 2021)

Here we go again...


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## davidpbest (Jan 11, 2021)

wrmiller said:


> Here we go again...


Say more - what do you mean?


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## wrmiller (Jan 11, 2021)

7milesup said:


> One of the design parameters that surprised me on the 1340GT is how the gearbox oiling system is designed.  If I understand correctly, based on Dave's, and others, modifications, is that the gearbox is not an oil bath system.  If that is the case, I find that very strange, but maybe that is the norm on this price point of a lathe?



It's called a Norton gearbox design. Been around for over a hundred years. Go look at a old Southbend.


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## 19E60 (Jan 11, 2021)

Disappointed that Mr. Best feels it necessary to keep his thoughts on this machine private. What possible reason could he have?

I have found his many posts and tutorials to be a valuable source for the 3 years I have been on this forum, and I have always looked forward to his sharing and learning something new.

Is there some underlying issue here that I am not aware of? Entirely possible I suppose since I tend to avoid drama and gossip.

Too bad


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## 7milesup (Jan 11, 2021)

wrmiller said:


> It's called a Norton gearbox design. Been around for over a hundred years. Go look at a old Southbend.


Yep, I have been educated in the last 24 hours on that type of gearbox.  I am pleased that folks pointed this out to me.  I would not like oil dripping out of the bottom only to end up on the chip tray or having to fabricate a catch pan.  Not a real big deal maybe, but I am glad I know now.  It does seem rather archaic to have a gearbox like that on a lathe such as the 1340.   I am sure that they were working towards a price point.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 11, 2021)

I dunno, it's a machine tool, I'd expect it to be covered in oil after it's had some use. My Atlas has constant loss oiling of the spindle bearings - it's great, constantly flushes out any crap that makes it into the bearings. I stick a piece of folded up kitchen paper towel under the headstock and replace it every time I empty the chip pan. Supposedly the oil soaked towels make great fire starters, though I haven't given that a try.

honestly peeps, these are tools designed to be used, not heirlooms to put in a case.


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## 7milesup (Jan 11, 2021)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> I dunno, it's a machine tool, I'd expect it to be covered in oil after it's had some use. My Atlas has constant loss oiling of the spindle bearings - it's great, constantly flushes out any crap that makes it into the bearings. I stick a piece of folded up kitchen paper towel under the headstock and replace it every time I empty the chip pan. Supposedly the oil soaked towels make great fire starters, though I haven't given that a try.
> 
> honestly peeps, these are tools designed to be used, not heirlooms to put in a case.


Hey.  
I have given this a lot of thought today regarding this type of gearbox and why dripping oil is an issue for me.  Keep in mind, I grew up a large farm so I am used to hydraulic leaks, etc.  I spent my entire career flying around the western hemisphere in a jet.  If it had a leak, we didn't go, whether it was hydraulic fluid, fuel and even something as simple as lavatory fluid (this could be a sign of valve failure and a possible breach in the pressurization vessel).  Hence my disdain for leaks.
Back to our normally scheduled program...


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 11, 2021)

hell yeah, wouldn't go anywhere near a plane or car* leaking fluid, but lathes are going to get oily/ dirty as soon as you start using them. As long as you keep topping up the oil and wiping off the excess, you're good to go.

*Exception being Fords and Triumphs from my Dad's era, where a leaking engine was seen as an essential rust preventing feature.


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## 7milesup (Jan 11, 2021)

Oh yes, one caveat about aircraft.  If it has a radial engine in it and it does *not* have oil drips underneath it, then that means there is no oil in the engine!


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## Buffalo21 (Jan 11, 2021)

7milesup said:


> Oh yes, one caveat about aircraft.  If it has a radial engine in it and it does *not* have oil drips underneath it, then that means there is no oil in the engine!


Similar to a Detroit............or most British motorcycles........


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 11, 2021)

or an aircooled VW..


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## DavidR8 (Jan 11, 2021)

Was just about to say that @mattthemuppet2


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## Pcmaker (Jan 11, 2021)

What other lathes are at the same price range with no change gears and with no oil drip system? I just hate changing gears.


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## davidpbest (Jan 11, 2021)

Pcmaker said:


> What other lathes are at the same price range with no change gears and with no oil drip system? I just hate changing gears.


I am unaware of any new lathe that supports the complete set of imperial and metric thread pitch without having to change at least one gear and also costs less than $10K.  They may exist, but I'm not aware of any that meet that spec.  The PM1440-GS comes close at $6K, but still requires one gear swap for metric, and it is built in China, not in Taiwan.  Mark Jacobs might know of other alternatives.


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## Mitch Alsup (Jan 11, 2021)

Pcmaker said:


> What other lathes are at the same price range with no change gears and with no oil drip system? I just hate changing gears.



Grizzly G4003G: I am yet to change an end gear, the spindle controlls and the Norton gearbox is doing every thread I have yet encountered.

Note: take face plate off Norton Gearbox and lightly grease the gear teeth, then the oil is only used to lube the bearings.

As to: Oil dripping from gearbox--what kind of seepage are you getting from the ways !! lathes (and mills) are designed to have various surfaces glide on flat, stright sections  with an oil film--there is no way to prevent these things from leaking--it is their nature !!


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## wrmiller (Jan 11, 2021)

7milesup said:


> Yep, I have been educated in the last 24 hours on that type of gearbox.  I am pleased that folks pointed this out to me.  I would not like oil dripping out of the bottom only to end up on the chip tray or having to fabricate a catch pan.  Not a real big deal maybe, but I am glad I know now.  It does seem rather archaic to have a gearbox like that on a lathe such as the 1340.   I am sure that they were working towards a price point.



I fold a blue paper towel, lay it under the gear box, and replace it once in a while. Not a big deal.


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## mksj (Jan 12, 2021)

The benefit of the Norton Gearbox is that there are no change gears for imperial threads, so one reason why it has been around for a very long time, You still need change gears to do metric threads and additional change gears to cover all the metric threads. I am not aware of any new lathes that cover both imperial and metric w/o change gears under 10K. It is a cost point of affordability, essentially you become the selector mechanism for the gears and you do not need to worry about oil seals. When you get into the light industrial lathes, or those with an ELS type system, there are no change gears other than for Mod/DP threads. The manual Sun Master lathes (ERL, RML, RC) that are sold under different names in the US do have true universal gearboxes with no change gears for both imperial and metric. Very nice if you do a lot of metric threading. Many of the lathes over 10K do have universal gearboxes.

Specific to the Pros/Cons on the 1340GT, it is one of the lowest cost Taiwanese lathes and a very comfortable size. It is very nicely built and overall quality is very good. It is a bit of a light weight machine so a little more prone to vibration and resonant points when using a VFD. The cross slide/carriage could be a bit heavier and there have been some cases where the cross slide nut has failed. They may need some head-stock alignment tweaking, in this price level it is almost a common procedure. Norton gearbox, it works, you need to address the dripping oil and a number of people have added a pump oiler system to distribute the oil more evenly and put a tray under it and be done with it. Proabably beats leaky gearboxes and changing out seals. The factory base was improved a long time ago so now is more rigid, or you can build your own if you have the means. The lathe otherwise is very smooth and can easily do sub 0.001" work. At the price point and the quality level, not a lot of other choices around at this quality level. Eisen has similar lathes, but they all come out at pretty much you get what you pay for. Although I have used my mill and lathe without a DRO at first, they both benefit significantly from a DRO, they reduce mistakes and you focus on the work as opposed to the dials. The lathe marking on the carriage travel dial are almost useless, it was some quirky number per rev.

I had mine for about 7 years, was my first lathe and a great all around lathe. There also an extensive amount of information written about it and also posted elsewhere, and very good support/warranty. The lathe is a starting point, how you set it up and equipment also has a bearing on how well it will perform. Expect to spend close to the price of lathe chucks, tooling, DRO, etc. it adds up.


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## ArmyDoc (Jan 12, 2021)

7milesup said:


> Oh yes, one caveat about aircraft.  If it has a radial engine in it and it does *not* have oil drips underneath it, then that means there is no oil in the engine!


Same thing we used to say about the CH-47 Chinook helicopter.


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## macardoso (Jan 12, 2021)

7milesup said:


> Yep, I have been educated in the last 24 hours on that type of gearbox.  I am pleased that folks pointed this out to me.  I would not like oil dripping out of the bottom only to end up on the chip tray or having to fabricate a catch pan.  Not a real big deal maybe, but I am glad I know now.  It does seem rather archaic to have a gearbox like that on a lathe such as the 1340.   I am sure that they were working towards a price point.



I have an Enco 12x36 lathe and this isn't as big of a deal as you'd think. I don't go so nuts with the oil as to have a puddle. That oil cup under it a few posts back would be nifty but isn't required.

The Enco service manual recommends removing the front gearbox cover daily to oil the gears in addition to the drip oilers fed from above. I have done this once in my 3 years of ownership, but I am not putting production hours on it.

I think you need to spend more than you would on a 13x40 to get a fully enclosed gearbox.


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## bill70j (Jan 12, 2021)

Buffalo21 said:


> Similar to a Detroit............or most British motorcycles........


.......or all British Leyland vehicles...


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## wrmiller (Jan 12, 2021)

ArmyDoc said:


> Same thing we used to say about the CH-47 Chinook helicopter.



And the CH-53 Deltas in HMH 363 (my last squadron). We used to tell anyone riding in the back to keep an eye on the slip ring, because If it stops dripping oil, we need to land. Fast.


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## oregontripper (Jan 17, 2021)

Regarding the 1440GS gearbox. Seems to me it requires a gear change between fine <=16 TPI and course threads >16TPI, and when switching to, and between metrics as well, with the common TPIs covered by the fine gear set-up. For me those of interest are 16,18, 20, 22, 24 and 28. However, those Fine (F, SLOW) and course ( G, FAST) gear sets also control slow and fast feed rates. In practical usage I don't understand the full implications of this.  So, I thread something using the FAST gear then have to change a gearset to get a suitable feed rate for the next operation? Seems that would annoy and I'd be prone to using other-than-ideal rates to avoid changing gears. I have reference that say it's a perfectly accurate machine. I don't know. I like ROC more than PRC for sure. I find little fault in the 1440GT, it's just money. LOL


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## 7milesup (Jan 17, 2021)

A LeBlond will not need change gears for what you want to do.  Headstock dimensions are probably larger than what you want though.  Finding a good used lathe though is really challenging, especially where you live.  Here is a link to a current auction in MSP.  I have given this serious thought but it is really too big for me. It is a beautiful LeBlond though. The catch is though that you will need to buy chucks, tool post and this one does not have a follow or steady rest either. All that will add up quick.


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## oregontripper (Jan 17, 2021)

7milesup said:


> A LeBlond will not need change gears for what you want to do.  Headstock dimensions are probably larger than what you want though.  Finding a good used lathe though is really challenging, especially where you live.  Here is a link to a current auction in MSP.  I have given this serious thought but it is really too big for me. It is a beautiful LeBlond though. The catch is though that you will need to buy chucks, tool post and this one does not have a follow or steady rest either. All that will add up quick.
> View attachment 351507


That's a clean one. I have found several similar, dandy, but, really too big machines, although this one is very nice...  I could see having one of these and a 1340GT as well. LOL


This one, albeit not cheap, is built like a tank.
Standard Modern 1940 for your viewing pleasure


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## Aaron_W (Jan 17, 2021)

If the major issue you have with the 1127 is the change gears, have you considered converting it to an electronic lead screw? No change gears and a lot less expensive than buying a new lathe, I think it is a $200-300 in parts at most. 

There are a few posts on the forum from people who have done it, and I think there are even kits available if you don't want to find the individual parts.


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## Pcmaker (Jan 17, 2021)

The electronic leadscrew thing is a little bit too complicated for me.


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## 7milesup (Jan 17, 2021)

oregontripper said:


> That's a clean one. I have found several similar, dandy, but, really too big machines, although this one is very nice...  I could see having one of these and a 1340GT as well. LOL
> 
> 
> This one, albeit not cheap, is built like a tank.
> Standard Modern 1940 for your viewing pleasure


That Standard Modern is incredible.  I wonder how much it weighs.


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## AlanB (Jan 20, 2021)

Pcmaker said:


> The electronic leadscrew thing is a little bit too complicated for me.


There's at least one commercial electronic leadscrew kit available, so you don't have a big complicated project. I think an electronic leadscrew would be a huge improvement over any gearbox setup. It can do things a gearbox cannot.


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