# New member from Nevada



## Mr Mike (Aug 2, 2017)

Hello from the Silver State..

My name is Mike,  I'm your average do it all kinda person, I'm pretty adept at wood working and dabble in everything else.

If I have learned anything in life it would be, Every thing you learn adds exponentially to what you already know opening a whole new world of opportunity, Hopefully I'm ready to add machining to my dabble list.

Thanks for having this laymen forum as a place to start. I do not yet have a Lathe, but scouring these forums I'm learning what to look for while hitting Craigslist nightly, I know almost nothing about lathes but my understanding is the ways are the big issue..

I found a Logan 1875 in California that may fit the bill for a first lathe both in size and usability, it was a School shop lathe Ive been told. It can be found on craigs list by searching for logan 1875 - asking 1500.00 for it. but I can get it for around a grand with some tooling... who knows may be driving there Saturday..

Ill be around here and there learning what I can, Good day.


----------



## Bob Korves (Aug 2, 2017)

Welcome to the forum, Mike.  Sounds like you are paying attention to learning what you need to.  Tell us the details of the Logan for sale and we may be able to give you some ideas and things to look for.  Photos are always a plus!  Best of luck in your lathe search.


----------



## royesses (Aug 3, 2017)

Welcome to the best hobbyist forum there is. You will find many members here ready and able to help you get started.

Roy


----------



## Mr Mike (Aug 3, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> Welcome to the forum, Mike.  Sounds like you are paying attention to learning what you need to.  Tell us the details of the Logan for sale and we may be able to give you some ideas and things to look for.  Photos are always a plus!  Best of luck in your lathe search.



Hi bob, I have been browsing a few machinist forums researching the good the bad and ugly about lathes.

There are many many variables that I have to contend with for my first lathe purchase that can be daunting for a low knowledge buyer like me, because as I'm learning most of the variables only become a pro or con based on intended use and not the lathe itself.

My intended use will be many applications so I need a well rounded lathe,  A plus to old Iron is weight and stability and robustness, the cons are the 9" and 10" size Logans and Southbends Iv'e run across lack high RPM for small size light base materials such as Aluminum and brass and older lathes do not fair well with metric threading without changing gear sets, the Logans still have some parts available from Logan so I'm leaning that way ( some at least ), RPM is a plus for the new import lathes but they're lacking power on small units but at the new price tag to go with it $3500.00 to start for a decent new lathe that has the minimum features I believe I will make use of.

As far as I can tell I would to soon out grow a mini lathe, not that they cant be made to be accurate but due to size and ability to work mild steel. So unless I'm willing to fork over big bucks for a new large lathe - I need to find and love an old one. In fact many common features found on an older model cant be found on imports till after the $2700.00 range of  an 8" X 20" Powered cross slide for instance, and many don't have a reverse function.

This research is killing me cause even most the terminology is alien to me, Engine Lath, Tool Lathe, Turret Lathe, Quick release tool post, and many many more.  And the mis-information ( or misleading information ) is the worst part - and the lathe is the cheap part of this transaction, even thou there are basically just a couple manufactures of the import lathes that are all just re-branded models - very few places carry a decent line up of Accessories, and the research list goes on and on.

unfortunately manual lathes are all but none existent here so my options are limited, Even import lathes are no where to be found here, I have to either search remote areas for old iron that may harbor unseen issue at a great beginner price or purchase a new much more expensive machine from a trusted brand for the backing such as grizzly or amazon, Ebay for this is not really a good option.

Thats about 1/2 of what Iv'e learned to this point, I have a list of wants...

My first lathe needs to: ( some what negotiable if I'm not thinking this thru proper )
fit in an area of 5' X 2' .
Be around 800 to 1000 Lbs on a pedestal, I can move that my self.
Be between  9" X 22" and 12" x 32" center to center.
have the ability to turn aluminum and steel with reasonable accurately, Pre-loaded backlash a plus.
have a reverse function ( for left handed threads I think ) for drilling and working either side of the project as needed.
Powered cross slide and compound slide.
Have a Std Tailstock, Turret would be ok.
Have a Std tool post, QCTP would be great but not necessary.
Have an enclosed 240v electric motor single phase, Not hanging off or supported at the rear, V belt preferred but not a deal breaker.
Have heat/induction treated ways ( Hard to tell on old iron ).
Have a self centering chuck.
Can have a gear head.

Thats off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm missing lots.
I intend to make allot of my own accessories after I learn enough about tooling, I intend to get a decent Mill as well - Lathe first thou.

I would like to find a complete lathe, getting a good price on a lathe with missing components just makes things harder, even if I need to replace an item down the road having the original part with the lathe makes identifying what a correct replacement looks like is very helpful.

Old with surface rust in usable condition is ideal ( better price ), but strait is a must - I don't mind getting my hands dirty and cleaning it up.

Here is one that interests me an 1875 Logan lathe, if its mechanically fine I think i cant tackle the rest.


----------



## Mr Mike (Aug 3, 2017)

royesses said:


> Welcome to the best hobbyist forum there is. You will find many members here ready and able to help you get started.
> 
> Roy



Thank you Roy, much appreciated..
This forum seemed like the logical place to start out.


----------



## royesses (Aug 3, 2017)

That Logan would be a dream machine to me.  It looks to be in good shape from what I can see. Here in OK good used quality lathes are hard to find. All I have room for is my 7x16 mini lathe and X2 mini mill. Pretty quick the Logan experts will be online and perhaps give you some guidance. It sounds like you are getting up to speed very quickly, a fast learner for sure. Best of luck to you on finding the right machine.  Your search for the perfect machine is very interesting to me as a fellow hobbyist. As a retired mechanic I tend to look at what I can make of the machine and that can get to be expensive and time consuming. I predict you are going to get the machine you want and be a happy camper.

Roy


----------



## Tozguy (Aug 3, 2017)

Mike, welcome to the forum. 
That Logan looks good to my inexperienced eye. If you have the time and patience it would be an education to clean up a lathe like that before you actually have to use it, as long as there are no serious issues with it.  If there is a member close to you who could help you size up that lathe in person it might be reassuring. 
Bob Korves provided a video recently about checking a lathe for wear.


----------



## Bob Korves (Aug 3, 2017)

Tozguy said:


> Bob Korves provided a video recently about checking a lathe for wear.


Wasn't me.  I don't make videos...


----------



## RandyM (Aug 3, 2017)

Tozguy said:


> Bob Korves provided a video recently about checking a lathe for wear.





Bob Korves said:


> Wasn't me.  I don't make videos...



Bob, he didn't say you made a video, he said you provided the information on a video.

Here is the thread Tozguy is referring to.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/worn-engine-lathe-evaluation.60918/


----------



## Bob Korves (Aug 3, 2017)

Mr Mike said:


> Hi bob, I have been browsing a few machinist forums researching the good the bad and ugly about lathes.
> 
> There are many many variables that I have to contend with for my first lathe purchase that can be daunting for a low knowledge buyer like me, because as I'm learning most of the variables only become a pro or con based on intended use and not the lathe itself.
> 
> ...


Mike, you have educated yourself quite well for a newbie, I am in awe.  A few comments and questions:
SOME new parts are available for Logans, but they are pricey.  Used parts are often available for most lathes, except for the one you need really bad and right away. 

Imports all look the same, but they are built in many factories to the same designs, and many of the parts are made in small shops, some in garage size shops, and then brought together to become a lathe.  Although they might look all the same except for the paint color, often seemingly interchangeable parts when held at hand's length will not quite fit another "brand" of Chinese lathe, or ones they made a few years before.  Sometimes they can be made to fit.  That is not really a problem.  The castings do not often fail.  Many parts can be made by the machinist.  Some are standard hardware.

Is your 5' x 2' size critical?  I think I could see you with something like a 12x36" lathe, which are capable of a large range of work but might be a bit larger than your stated limit.  Older lathes often do not have adequate high speeds, especially for using carbide tooling.  On something like a 12x36, I would be looking for a high speed of at least 1500, and 2000 is better.  A ball bearing spindle is needed to reach those speeds.  Low speeds are just as important.  Mine goes to 70 rpm, but that is sometimes not really low enough, though it can be worked with.  I would prefer a low end down to around 36 to 45 rpm on my 13x40 lathe.  Smaller lathes are often limited from doing large work more by limited low speeds than by the lathe capacity.  You will very soon want a QCTP.  Do not dismiss 3 phase machines out of hand.  With a VFD (~$200) you can run the lathe off single phase and also have variable speed control at the same time, and some other benefits as well.  Often if you can tweak the speed a bit you can stop chatter, and/or improve surface finish.  Speeds can also be extended to some extent with a VFD, but there are some caveats to that.  You will want a 4 jaw independent and a 3 jaw scroll (self centering) chuck to start out with.  That is pretty standard stuff. 

You are new to lathes.  If you are looking at used lathes, I highly recommend finding a knowledgeable and experienced person to help you inspect and evaluate them.  A real dog looks about the same as a real score to someone who does not know what to look for.  Some help might be good for choosing a new lathe as well.  Buying tooling is expensive, figure that into whatever you buy and what it comes with.

Lastly, do not get in a hurry.  Take your time and make sure you get what you want for what you want to pay, and in a condition that will not sour you on machining.  Patience is a required virtue here.  You are definitely on the right track...
HAVE FUN!  And keep us posted...


----------



## Bob Korves (Aug 3, 2017)

RandyM said:


> Bob, he didn't say you made a video, he said you provided the information on a video.
> 
> Here is the thread Tozguy is referring to.
> 
> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/worn-engine-lathe-evaluation.60918/


Indeed.  Senior moment...


----------



## Mr Mike (Aug 3, 2017)

royesses said:


> That Logan would be a dream machine to me.  It looks to be in good shape from what I can see. Here in OK good used quality lathes are hard to find. All I have room for is my 7x16 mini lathe and X2 mini mill. Pretty quick the Logan experts will be online and perhaps give you some guidance. It sounds like you are getting up to speed very quickly, a fast learner for sure. Best of luck to you on finding the right machine.  Your search for the perfect machine is very interesting to me as a fellow hobbyist. As a retired mechanic I tend to look at what I can make of the machine and that can get to be expensive and time consuming. I predict you are going to get the machine you want and be a happy camper.
> 
> Roy



Hi Roy..
The small 7X lathe are cute as can be, with good amount of differences between them, infact reading about and compairing them first helped me learn part names such as Quick Change Tool Post, I almost couldn't resist purchasing one. Edit: I did buy one to keep me busy..!



Tozguy said:


> Mike, welcome to the forum.
> That Logan looks good to my inexperienced eye. If you have the time and patience it would be an education to clean up a lathe like that before you actually have to use it, as long as there are no serious issues with it.  If there is a member close to you who could help you size up that lathe in person it might be reassuring.
> Bob Korves provided a video recently about checking a lathe for wear.



Hello Tozguy..
My thoughts exactly -I would Absolutely clean the machine completely, I don't know about the patience part thou, Upon getting it home I would 1 photograph everything from all angles with closeups of complex areas, then within a couple hours there would be only parts left standing.

Thats a good video - thanks for bringing it to my attention, I have watched a few videos on checking out lathes, I like that one because it quick to show target areas and how to check them, allot of the videos I have seen while good are bit slow paced.

Have good day people. off to work I go..


----------



## tq60 (Aug 3, 2017)

Consider 3 phase power as that often is a turn off to hobby buyers and drives price down.

A good quality VFD can be had cheap, our 3 hp Allen bradley was only 199.00.

On our SB 14.5 in back gear we can get MPR...Minutes Per Revolution and with a 2 hp motor plenty of torque still at that low speed.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr Mike (Aug 3, 2017)

tq60 said:


> Consider 3 phase power as that often is a turn off to hobby buyers and drives price down.
> 
> A good quality VFD can be had cheap, our 3 hp Allen bradley was only 199.00.
> 
> ...



Hello, absolutely 3 phase is on the table... 
MPR, I love it... First I've heard of that.


----------



## dlane (Aug 3, 2017)

Hi Mike glad your here, seems you've done your research well and have your goals inline.
Hope you find the rite lathe for you and eventually a mill that meets your needs.
One thing you may have a problem finding is a lathe with a powered compound slide not saying they aren't out there, but it would be new to me.
That Logan if in good shape should be fun, taking somthing like that completely apart cleaning, repairing , painting , reassembling is a good way to know your lathe inside and out .
Best of luck on your hunt.


----------



## mikey (Aug 3, 2017)

Mike, let me play Devil's Advocate here and suggest you look for a new Asian 11-12" lathe instead of old iron. Yes, yes, I know that old iron is cool but consider that old iron will come with old wear and tear. It may or may not come with the tooling you need and the cost to obtain it can add up. If something is broken then you have to source or make it but you have to be able to make it; got the machines and knowledge to do it?

Some folks have the idea that an old  'Murican lathe means its better than a new Asian lathe. If you take a good look at, say, a PM1127VF-LB, you see you get variable speed, a D1-4 camlock instead of a threaded on chuck, a fairly big spindle bore, a hardened spindle/gears/ways, Class 5 spindle bearings and so on and on and on. Price for the basic machine is $2900.00, and if something goes wrong with the lathe then you have some of the best after-sale support in the hobby industry.

If you are looking for a project then an old lathe is just the ticket. Lots of learning to do here and you will probably end up with a nice looking old lathe. On the other hand, it may cost you well over what a new one will cost and it will very likely not be as tight and accurate and will lack some really desirable features (VS, camlock chuck, etc). 

Like Bob said, take your time and think things through. I like old iron and admire some of the restorations I've seen but quite frankly, I would prefer having a new lathe so I could learn to machine stuff. My personal lathe is from the mid-90's but it had less than 100 hours on it so basically a mint condition Austrian lathe. If I hadn't found it, I would own a new PM Taiwanese lathe.


----------



## brino (Aug 3, 2017)

Hi Mike,

Welcome to the Hobby-Machinist!

Here's a couple of good reads:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/a-guide-for-selecting-the-right-lathe-for-beginners.25915/
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/how-to-select-a-milling-machine-a-guide.30066/

Have Fun!
-brino


----------



## Mr Mike (Aug 3, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> Mike, you have educated yourself quite well for a newbie, I am in awe.  A few comments and questions:
> SOME new parts are available for Logans, but they are pricey.  Used parts are often available for most lathes, except for the one you need really bad and right away.
> 
> Imports all look the same, but they are built in many factories to the same designs, and many of the parts are made in small shops, some in garage size shops, and then brought together to become a lathe.  Although they might look all the same except for the paint color, often seemingly interchangeable parts when held at hand's length will not quite fit another "brand" of Chinese lathe, or ones they made a few years before.  Sometimes they can be made to fit.  That is not really a problem.  The castings do not often fail.  Many parts can be made by the machinist.  Some are standard hardware.
> ...



All good info here Bob...  

4 jaw Independent chuck for off center boring and the 3 jaw for dead center boring, Makes sense.

VFD variable-frequency drive controller, Got it.. just read the wiki on that device.

My size requirement of 5' X 2' is not set in stone, Its the size of the desk I'm typing at and, Is my visual Que since I have nothing to compare against.

Be Patience, My pace is a rather quick one - you know me well Jedi, which is ok since I'm of the complete understanding that my first lathe is nothing more then a learning tool, and a $1000.00 max. Yes It would be nice to have a competent person with me but chances are that wont be possible,  which is why I have been watching videos on what to look for. The the video posted above along with a few other ones I have been watching have helped a great deal.

Thanks for all the info.


----------



## Silverbullet (Aug 3, 2017)

Hey MM  ,is that chocolate or peanut.,lol , no welcome to the site to much deep thinking and long reading post. Short hi and welcome. Logan's my lathe for forty years still work in good.


----------



## Bob Korves (Aug 3, 2017)

Mr Mike said:


> 4 jaw Independent chuck for off center boring and the 3 jaw for dead center boring, Makes sense.


Actually, the 4 jaw is usually used for accurate work, and the 3 jaw for less important work.  The reasons for that is that with the independent 4 jaw you can (and will) dial in each jaw separately until the part turns true.  A typical 3 jaw chuck is operated by a scroll, which is a machined spiral groove that the jaws follow as they are tightened all together toward the center of the chuck.  That design is inherently less accurate than a chuck with independent jaws, but faster to get the work chucked up.  A typical 3 jaw ( if there actually was such a thing) might have several thousandths runout when clamping the work, and no good way to adjust it out.  The discrepancies may  be different with different work diameters as well.  Nature of the beast.  It is fine for less critical work.  4 jaw independent chucks can also grip the work tighter.  

Aside from the above, three jaws are good for triangular, hex, or 9 or 12 sided work.  4 jaws are good for 4, 8, 12, or 16 sided work.  Also, not all 4 jaw chucks are independent, some are scroll.  And not all 3 jaws are scroll chucks, some are independent.

Some chucks are very high accuracy, smooth and solid gripping.  The jaws are ground properly so the work does not stick out of the chuck at an angle from square.  Others are cheaply made junk, and others are totally worn out.  Know the difference, and whether the sizes of the chucks is appropriate for the lathe and the work you will expect them to do.

Anyway, a chuck is not just a chuck...


----------



## Mr Mike (Aug 3, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> Actually, the 4 jaw is usually used for accurate work, and the 3 jaw for less important work.  The reasons for that is that with the independent 4 jaw you can (and will) dial in each jaw separately until the part turns true.  A typical 3 jaw chuck is operated by a scroll, which is a machined spiral groove that the jaws follow as they are tightened all together toward the center of the chuck.  That design is inherently less accurate than a chuck with independent jaws, but faster to get the work chucked up.  A typical 3 jaw ( if there actually was such a thing) might have several thousandths runout when clamping the work, and no good way to adjust it out.  The discrepancies may  be different with different work diameters as well.  Nature of the beast.  It is fine for less critical work.  4 jaw independent chucks can also grip the work tighter.
> 
> Aside from the above, three jaws are good for triangular, hex, or 9 or 12 sided work.  4 jaws are good for 4, 8, 12, or 16 sided work.  Also, not all 4 jaw chucks are independent, some are scroll.  And not all 3 jaws are scroll chucks, some are independent.
> 
> ...



Hi bob, Thanks for the additional details about chucks - It would be great if they had a book "Everything you wanted to know about chucks but were afraid to ask" or "Chucks for Dummies" I would by that book in a heart beat.


----------



## Mr Mike (Aug 4, 2017)

Silverbullet said:


> Hey MM  ,is that chocolate or peanut.,lol , no welcome to the site to much deep thinking and long reading post. Short hi and welcome. Logan's my lathe for forty years still work in good.



Hello Silverbullet.
Short, sweet and to the point - I like it. 
A Logan for 40 yrs.. what model..? hardened Ways..? most redeeming feature..? Thanks.


----------



## Mr Mike (Aug 4, 2017)

brino said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> Welcome to the Hobby-Machinist!
> 
> ...



Thanks for the links Sir, Much appreciated Brino.


----------



## Mr Mike (Aug 4, 2017)

mikey said:


> Mike, let me play Devil's Advocate here and suggest you look for a new Asian 11-12" lathe instead of old iron. Yes, yes, I know that old iron is cool but consider that old iron will come with old wear and tear. It may or may not come with the tooling you need and the cost to obtain it can add up. If something is broken then you have to source or make it but you have to be able to make it; got the machines and knowledge to do it?
> 
> Some folks have the idea that an old  'Murican lathe means its better than a new Asian lathe. If you take a good look at, say, a PM1127VF-LB, you see you get variable speed, a D1-4 camlock instead of a threaded on chuck, a fairly big spindle bore, a hardened spindle/gears/ways, Class 5 spindle bearings and so on and on and on. Price for the basic machine is $2900.00, and if something goes wrong with the lathe then you have some of the best after-sale support in the hobby industry.
> 
> ...



Hi Mikey. I reviewed that very machine at Precision Matthews at the same time I was looking for a company that carried both a Lathe and a Mill, such as Grizzly and Jet, I am very familiar with wood working equipment - Jet and Grizzly are the McDonalds and burger king of the wood working world. , Delta machines was the goto "no longer in business in the USA" for serious hobbyist and professionals, they quit moved and changed their name to Steel city tool works.  Delta along with Powermatic were the names you could trust, just like logan and Southbend for the next 50 years your going to find them in peoples shops looking antiquated but still working.

Please don't take this the wrong way, To be honest my first thought was the PM1127VF-LB looks to be nothing more then the High end version in the Mini Lathe world, A mini lathe with all the bells and whistles. Its light weight and does not remind me of equipment that will last for years, so it just wont fit my end game. I would love to just run out and buy an amazing Lathe but that is simply impossible with my current knowledge of the equipment.

Im not saying that the PM1127VF-LB doesn't fit a particular purpose but 2 years from now I know I would be selling it at a huge loss since this is such a niche market, on the same note I wouldn't buy a Jet or grizzly mini Lathe either. what I was seriously looking at to jump right in the hobby was this shop fox also a known wood working company, but I read some bad reviews and gave up the search knowing I don't have the knowledge to make the right decision.

Thank you for playing devils advocate Sir.


----------



## mikey (Aug 4, 2017)

I think I kinda sorta understand what you're trying to say. You're making the analogy that Logan and South Bend are the machine tool equivalent of Delta and Powermatic of old, and that like those old woodworking machines that can be found in woodworking shops all over the place,  there are many old Logans and SB around. And you know what, you're right. Just keep in mind that a lathe is nothing like an old jointer or table saw. It has a lot of sliding surfaces, spindles and bearings that wear and that wear causes issues with accuracy. 

I've helped restore two SB lathes and restored an Emco lathe myself so I know what it takes and what you get at the end. Hence, my suggestion to look at more modern options. At the end of the day, as long as you get what you want, that's what matters. Good luck to you.


----------



## Tozguy (Aug 4, 2017)

Mr Mike said:


> Its light weight and does not remind me of equipment that will last for years, so it just wont fit my end game. I would love to just run out and buy an amazing Lathe but that is simply impossible with my current knowledge of the equipment.
> 
> Im not saying that the PM1127VF-LB doesn't fit a particular purpose but 2 years from now I know I would be selling it at a huge loss since this is such a niche market, on the same note I wouldn't buy a Jet or grizzly mini Lathe either. what I was seriously looking at to jump right in the hobby was this shop fox also a known wood working company, but I read some bad reviews and gave up the search knowing I don't have the knowledge to make the right decision.
> 
> View attachment 239100



Back then when I was in a similar situation, it made more sense to me to get a lathe that fit my 'end game' right from the get-go. As opposed to buying a temporary 'learner" lathe where there is a loss in market value to consider as well as the cost of retooling a second time. If you get more lathe than you think you need (or as big as you can handle), you might only have to cry once.

When it comes to hobby level machines, someone said it is a roll of the dice. There are many sad stories about poor quality and customer service but also many good ones that go untold. Precision Mathews seems to have a good record for customer support. There will be still lots to do on a new 'hobby' lathe to get it cleaned up and tuned to your liking. If you expect to do the final quality control on the machine then it is not such a disappointment to find that some details might need attention.  
My case is one of the happy ones where I bought a new low end hobby lathe on sale with good equipment and never looked back. The investment has more than paid for itself in fun and enjoyment and I figure when the time comes to liquidate any proceeds will be gravy.


----------



## Silverbullet (Aug 4, 2017)

Mr Mike said:


> Hello Silverbullet.
> Short, sweet and to the point - I like it.
> A Logan for 40 yrs.. what model..? hardened Ways..? most redeeming feature..? Thanks.


11" flat belt on spindle model number dont remember, I have 6  4  3 jaw chucks , 5 c collets with lever , Hardinage tool post 4 position and a quick change set up. More tooling then ill ever use up . It's always ran and cut well , only changed the belt one time in the forty years. I'd say it's about the best I could get back then after selling the one I kick my self for letting go. It was a Sheldon with vari drive had the lever collets which I would choose over all other workholding in a lathe where possible to use them. I had all kinds of collets hex square, over sized , special made for jobs from brass collets. If you get repeat work you set up to do it the best and fastest way. Time is money


----------



## Mr Mike (Aug 4, 2017)

Silverbullet said:


> 11" flat belt on spindle model number dont remember, I have 6  4  3 jaw chucks , 5 c collets with lever , Hardinage tool post 4 position and a quick change set up. More tooling then ill ever use up . It's always ran and cut well , only changed the belt one time in the forty years. I'd say it's about the best I could get back then after selling the one I kick my self for letting go. It was a Sheldon with vari drive had the lever collets which I would choose over all other workholding in a lathe where possible to use them. I had all kinds of collets hex square, over sized , special made for jobs from brass collets. If you get repeat work you set up to do it the best and fastest way. Time is money



Besides the Sheldon loss you sound quite happy with your Logan, Which is a testament to a well built machine.


----------



## Mr Mike (Aug 6, 2017)

Hello good people.
Until I can find what I call my first learning lathe, I bought an under privileged Central Machines 7-10 to keep me busy. Found on Craigslist in good visible condition and new looking. It came with a few extras. Drill chick, Tiny Carbide Cutting tool set, Bunch of braised cutting tools and Blanks, Magnetic base dial Indicator for $400.00 a fair deal - I had my mind set on $350.00 but the guy was really nice and we talked for hours, on the plus side I got to see his new lathe a grizzly 10" X 22", which gave me a much needed sense of the size these tools are. I will definitely need a larger Lathe then a 10" X 22" - Its funny cause it is easily 4 times as massive as the 7" X 10" I bought from him.

I have been searching for a lathe with basic components diligently, No DRO, No QCTP, or other bells and whistles, " cheap - Basic - Strait " I really thought an older beautiful used one would be the place to start, their out there but several hundreds of miles away. I cannot seem to find decent any complete used cheap lathes here in Las Vegas so Iv'e started to include NEW in my search because.. If I have to buy a lathe sight unseen a new one should be strait and reasonably accurate.

One of the biggest problems I am having, is there are no showrooms with manual lathes here in Las Vegas... And since there is nothing to see and compare, I cant properly make a list of wants and needs. I'm seriously considering flying out to Washington to the grizzly showroom just so I can touch see and talk to a sales man to gain some knowledge.

I found this one today, and was hoping someone might have knowledge of Bolton tools in general, IE Good/Bad company to buy from - service Etc. 
Its the only lathe Iv'e found thus far with power feed on X and Y, Of a size that interests me 12" X 30" with stand, and price tag for a basic beginner lathe. I would appreciate it if someone could look it over.. 

http://boltontool.com/Lathes/metal-...tal-lathe-machine-with-coolant-system-cq9332a

Thanks in advance, Mike.


----------



## Doodle (Aug 6, 2017)

Whenever I look at things to spend money on, the internet can be your friend. I type into search for example "Model 12 Rocket engine is a piece of junk" and then look through the replies. You can substitute rough language in place of "piece of junk" works equally as well. I did it on this lathe and saw nothing. The next step is to go to You Tube and type "CQ9332A", and there you go, lots of videos to watch.


----------



## Mr Mike (Aug 6, 2017)

Doodle said:


> Whenever I look at things to spend money on, the internet can be your friend. I type into search for example "Model 12 Rocket engine is a piece of junk" and then look through the replies. You can substitute rough language in place of "piece of junk" works equally as well. I did it on this lathe and saw nothing. The next step is to go to You Tube and type "CQ9332A", and there you go, lots of videos to watch.



I'm right there with you sir... the Internet is our friend. I research the heck out of stuff, Iv'e found people tend to exaggerate even the tiniest of issue due to add revenues - over looking that, if there are dozens and dozens of complaints then there may be justification of a product being labeled junk.

Of the video I see, most are either reviews or complaints with a tiny fraction of them buyers that are happy, and since one can't rely on brand names anymore either - word of mouth person to person is still a solid way to get Information.
Even on this forum there is no info written about the Bolton tools lathe CQ9332A that I can find, but anything I might find here would carry allot more weight then You-tube for me, I fully believe if *Keith Rucker* said the Bolton tools CQ9332A was his pick as a great beginners lathe, in just 2 days it would be on back order..

I'm definitely going to keep digging up all I can on that lathe, I was just crossing fingers someone here knows something about it.


----------



## brino (Aug 7, 2017)

Hey Mr. Mike,

By searching: "Bolton CQ9332A site:www.hobby-machinist.com" (without the quotes) (1)

I get the following hits:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/need-info-for-first-lathe.25421/
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/bolton-lathes.19840/
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/qctp-for-a-bolton-cq9332a.51094/
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/need-some-help-picking-a-new-lathe.48920/
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/what-about-bolton-and-prm-lathes.44018/
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/bolton-hardware-machine-experience.15028/

I do NOT guarantee any of the above will answer your questions, but provide it as more research for you.

Good Luck with your quest, and please keep us informed on your research and decisions.

-brino

(1) I always search at https://duckduckgo.com/ it passes your search text to google and presents the google results back, but it anonymizes your search. It irks me that google tracks everything and everyone. Some see them as a tech company, I see them as slimy, intrusive ad mongers.


----------



## Mr Mike (Aug 9, 2017)

brino said:


> Hey Mr. Mike,
> 
> By searching: "Bolton CQ9332A site:www.hobby-machinist.com" (without the quotes) (1)
> 
> ...



Hi Brino.. Thanks for the links I read them all, along with more digging around the web and videos...
I called Bolten Tools today, To talk about the machine CQ9332A which fits my idea of a starter machine, Long story - I'm less happy about the tool... Ill explain later. I also sent off an email to PM.

I can see getting a first lathe within a month or two is just not in the cards for me, Iv'e been hitting CL every day, looking through web sites to compare machines, and the devil is in the details cause the more I learn the worse this gets.

So glad I bought the HF 7 x 10 over the weekend so I'd have something to fiddle, nice to take a break from all the searching.. Ill have tapered bearings on it soon enough.


----------



## Mr Mike (Aug 19, 2017)

I got the chance to go to a racing shop today, they build custom race trucks,  they had a HF 9 X 20 lathe for sale, 300.00 on craigs list... so I bought it. 
But even better... they had real lathes in there shop and gave me a tour - and boy oh boy going from looking at photos all the time and actually seeing them in person is night and day..
I was like a little kid in a candy shop.. they had a Hardinge Toolroom lathe Unsure the size and South Bend belt driven 9 x 22  lathe - with the motor just behind it that purred like a kitten..   I bought the HF 9 x 20 but its a child's toy compared to the Hardinge and south bend - the moral of the story is it was a fun paid learning experience for me at the race shop.. 

Stated sizes you see in CL postings and manufactures websites such as 9" X 20" 0r 9" X 22" and so on are not good indicators to wrap your mind around when looking at photos of a lathes, Its somewhat misleading to your minds eye,
The Harbor Freight 9" x 20" and the South bend 9" X 22" have absolutely nothing in common, they cant even be put in the same category. My 7" x 10" HF lathe has way more in common with the 9" x 20" - its really like a little brother to it.

I can easily see now why the south bend and Logan lathes along with others are so popular among hobbyists, 1. because they are abundant still and 2. because their metal marvels that are built like tanks. 

Everyone has an opinion, and now Ive confirmed what I believe to be the honest truth when Lathe shopping, Do not just look at all the pretty photos and all the cool do hickeys you see on new cheap lathes ( less then $3000.00 ) like DRO  "Digital Readouts", " RPM read outs", " Powered cross feeds ".  Cause its pretty common and or can be added to older lathes too. Im not saying to count out new lathes as an option, just don't assume old lathes are inferior. The Hardinge I got to see and play with today was impressive and has all the bells and whistle - independent veriable speed at the Chuck and cross feeds and so much much much more..  It didn't take up much more space then the South Bend but was much more massive, and not joking.. it makes the 9" x 20" I just got - look like it came from the 99 cent store.

I had a Great time today, learned a bunch and meet some really nice people.. No I don't regret buying the HF 9" x 20" - I need it for the moment...

I'm still working on my HF 7 x 10 and I need to turn a blank down to 61.5 mm so I don't damage the outer race of the new bearing when I press it in position, I could have just used the old bearing that came out,  but what fun would that be..


----------

