# The Machine Shop Has Been Closed



## darkzero (Jun 27, 2020)

Well not like I have customers anyway, just a personal hobby.  

I'm so sick of sanding & painting! Been working on my front doors for the past 2 days.  Restained & 2nd coat of clear is drying now. 2 more coats to go. #imnotawoodworker








There's a new bird's nest above out front door. The parents have been crying & watching me closely everytime I'm out there working. They're just worried about their babies but of course I won't bother them. Not the first time we've had a nest up there. I was worried about the paint fumes affecting them, especially the babies. Read that paint fumes can be lethal for birds. They seem to be ok still.


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## mmcmdl (Jun 27, 2020)

Looking good Will !


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## mikey (Jun 27, 2020)

I agree, looks really good, Will!


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## darkzero (Jun 27, 2020)

Thanks fellas!


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jun 27, 2020)

Oh man Dark! I have the same doors inside and on cupboards. I HATE wood...hate working with it and don't even know where to start. Any steps you can tell me to get the same results? I took 5 weeks off for my "covid-palozza" house repairs are about #1 on the list. Front deck, rear deck, replace 42' of fence and the door cupboards inside...ALL WOOD....


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## darkzero (Jun 27, 2020)

GunsOfNavarone said:


> Oh man Dark! I have the same doors inside and on cupboards. I HATE wood...hate working with it and don't even know where to start. Any steps you can tell me to get the same results? I took 5 weeks off for my "covid-palozza" house repairs are about #1 on the list. Front deck, rear deck, replace 42' of fence and the door cupboards inside...ALL WOOD....



Oh man, I don't even want to think of when I have to do the cabinets & shelving! 

Haha, same here, I'm not a wood guy & I don't like working with it either. I wish I could give you tips but I'm lost when it comes to wood. I just sanded with 100-150 grit. Stained. Then 4 coats of clear, light sanding w/ 220 in between coats. Well I just finished the 3rd coat, one more to go & I'm soooo looking foward to the end of this. Had to do all the sanding by hand, that sucked!

It's no where near perfect but I'm using the 10ft rule. If it looks good from 10 ft away it's good enough for me!  Looks 20 times better than it used to be & I'm just glad the color match came out good.


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## mmcmdl (Jun 27, 2020)

darkzero said:


> It's no where near perfect but I'm using the 10ft rule. If it looks good from 10 ft away it's good enough for me!



Hm....................that's what I tell 'em at work ! I can't see it from my house !


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jun 27, 2020)

There are so many nooks and crannies, just sand paper? Seems like there are foam blocks that conform to the shape your sanding....nothing like that?Steel wool? Scotch Brite? Or is that the metal guy in me talking?


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## darkzero (Jun 27, 2020)

Yeah all them nooks & crannies is what killed me! The flats I used a sanding block but all the squares is what was time consuming. Plus someone repainted the door previously and I tried to sand out all the small drips & bubbles. I didn't sand it down to bare wood except I pretty much got there at the bottom of the doors where most of the wear/weathering was.

If it hadn't been for the weathering I suppose just light sanding or scotchbrite would have been fine? I only used maroon scotchbrite after staining before the first coat of clear. For all them nooks & crannies I used pieces of emery tape, what I use on the lathe. I tried to keep costs down & use what I had. In the end all I ended up buying was stain & clear. BTW I was reminded that HF sandpaper sucks! Now I know why it was hiding in the bottom drawer.


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## savarin (Jun 27, 2020)

Looking good.
I dont hate woodwork just not happy with it.
Todays job is sanding three bench tops then coating in clear.
I will be using a 2 pack in the hope I wont have to re-do them in my remaining lifetime.
I am so sick of home building and am very desperate to get back to my binocular


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## NCjeeper (Jun 27, 2020)

More patients than me. I would have either painted them or bought new ones.


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## ACHiPo (Jun 28, 2020)

Nicely done Will!


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## mickri (Jun 28, 2020)

Good job.  Well done.  To get into those nooks and cranies a hook scraper works pretty good.  Especially if you use a razor knife along the edge to cut the old finish.  When doing varnish on my boat I was taught by some of the best paint and varnish guys in Dana Point to use 320 to prep for the last coat.  100 to start followed by 220 between coats and 320 before the last coat.  Cut the sandpaper into 4 pieces and fold it into 3rd's.  Most people keep using sandpaper long after it stops sanding.  You can feel the difference.  I would imagine that you would need at least 5 to maybe 10 sheets of sandpaper for each door.  On the flats you have to use a hard block to sand with.  Otherwise you will get a dished look.  Using brushing thinner also helps the brush marks to flow out.  Just like anything there are little tricks to learn.


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## 7milesup (Jun 28, 2020)

Mickri has some really good points.  How you fold the sand paper is helpful too.  I fold whatever paper I am using (size is irrelevant) into 1/4s.  The last one gets cut along the fold line though and then folded over onto the other side.  Hard to explain but that way none of the grit is grinding against the other grit, they are all grit to back of paper.
Scraper and sanding blocks are your friend.  I use products from Klinspor Woodworking Shop. 
If these doors face to the south, keeping them looking nice will be an ongoing process.  A UV resistant finish, like a spar varnish is important.  Do not use just a polyurethane because it will not hold up at all.  I would recommend something like Sikkens Cetol or similar.  Look into boat finishes because they take a beating.
I have been woodworking for over 30 years.  Build mostly furniture.  I find woodworking relaxing and the end products to be beautiful when constructed of one of natures beautiful gifts.  I love metalworking because of the precision and the absolutely awesome projects one can come up with.  I just don't like the swarf compared to sawdust, but I do have a full cyclone system for my wood shop.


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## mickri (Jun 28, 2020)

If your are looking for a really good quality varnish that holds up in direct sunlight there is nothing better than Pettit Flagship.  Not inexpensive at over $40 a quart but you can't beat the look of 10 coats on a teak cockpit combing.  This varnish is a several years old and due for a touch up.  I touch it up if it gets a scratch and one or two coats every two years to keep it looking nice


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jun 28, 2020)

@mickri I guess this brings up another side topic, proper sandpaper. I'm not talking grit but the sandpaper you use on metal is different than wood. As I despise wood (actually I don't dislike as much as I did in my youth,) but as of recently, I pulled sandpaper out of the drawer just to remove some mill scale. It was pretty rough, 180 I think. The metal just destroyed it. It was garnet flint and I typically use zirconia alumina. but yeah, there are a lot of sandpaper abrasives out there, and I don't pretend to understand it all but picking the right one can make the job a lot easier.


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## mickri (Jun 28, 2020)

For wood I buy the big box store 25 sheet packs of 220 which I use the most.  I buy smaller packs of 100 and 320.  The guys I knew that did paint and varnish for a living used whatever sandpaper that was readily available.  And lots of it. 

Besides sandpaper you have brushes.  I have not found anything in the big box stores that is worth using.  I buy my brushes mostly from West Marine.  I believe the brand is Corona.  Might be wrong on that.  They have a black handle and cost over $30 for the smaller brushes and go up from there.  They last forever if you clean them properly after each use.  I have dedicated brushes for varnish and each color of paint on the boat.  Believe it or not but some of the pros exclusively use the el cheapo foam brushes and lots of them.   Using foam brushes is more expensive in the long run even if you factor in the time it takes to clean good brushes.


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## darkzero (Jun 28, 2020)

7milesup said:


> If these doors face to the south, keeping them looking nice will be an ongoing process. A UV resistant finish, like a spar varnish is important. Do not use just a polyurethane because it will not hold up at all.



That's good to know, thanks. UV damage was my main concern & is why I had to refinish them. I was thinking to just buy some sort of oil based polyurethane. The one I ended up using said good for outdoors, helps protect against UV & rain, so that's what I bought (just from a big box hardware store). 

It does say spar urethane on the can. Was water based though & was thinner (viscosity) than the can of polyurethane I already had so I was a bit worried. But I don't know if that's a bad thing, hopefully it holds up fine. Doors face the north and are recessed so they don't see a lot of direct sunlight throughout the day.


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## mickri (Jun 28, 2020)

A north facing door won't get any direct sunlight unless the sunlight is reflected off of something.  Put on a couple of extra coats now and it will hold up better.  Plan on a touch up coat once a year.  You only need a quick light scuff to give the varnish something to stick to and one coat of varnish.


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## DavidR8 (Jun 28, 2020)

As I’m sure @mickri will confirm, one of the keys to maintaining any kind of film finish is staying on top of any nicks that break through the finish. As soon as moisture gets underneath it’s game over. 

I made a varnish touch-up kit when I owned a boat so I could deal with any nicks or gouges. 
I could get three years out of a varnish job if I used good quality varnish and stayed on top of maintenance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 7milesup (Jun 29, 2020)

darkzero said:


> It does say spar urethane on the can. Was water based though & was thinner (viscosity) than the can of polyurethane I already had so I was a bit worried.


One of the issues with water based is the ability to remove it later and refinish the surface you put it on.  It is very difficult to remove water based products.   I used a water based finish on two solid cherry pier cabinets that I build years ago.  Never liked the depth of the finish but knew it would be a nightmare to remove.  It was the first and last time I used a water based wood finish.


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## mickri (Jun 29, 2020)

Although I have nothing to back this up I have always felt that water based finishes are more like a paint than a varnish.  The only way I know of to have the option to varnish after removing paint is to varnish the wood first before you paint.  Otherwise the paint gets into the grain of the wood and you can never truly remove the paint.  You will always be able to see flecks of paint under the varnish.

And sorry to Darkzero that we have hijacked your thread.


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## darkzero (Jun 29, 2020)

mickri said:


> And sorry to Darkzero that we have hijacked your thread.



Haha, no worries. I have been guilty of doing so many times. All good info anyway.


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