# Milling machine stability assistance



## Serpico1985 (Aug 16, 2021)

Hey guys,

I recently got a PM1340GT and it is sitting on leveling feet which got me thinking about my mill.  

I have a Webb Champ 3EVS 10x50.  It weighs about 3,300lbs and I have it sitting catty corner in my shop.  Here are some pics:

















I have a shade over 6" of clearance above the motor. 

When I first got the mill it was rocking on the floor.  The back right and front left corners were seesawing so to speak.  I put a steel wedge under the back right corner and tapped it in a little bit so that it doesn't move.  I want to find a better solution than this wedge.  I'd like it to sit more solidly.  I have outlined in the below pictures where it is actually touching the floor by placing blue tape (where it touches).  






















I have shims, .001", .005", .020" and a larger sheet of .115" that I can use:





Here are my questions.  I'd love to put the mill on leveling feet with a steel bar going across the front and back that the mill would sit on.  Like the ones sold by H&W machine repair:





I contacted them and they would make a custom set that matches the hole spacing on my mill.  At that point it would sit very solidly on the floor and I could even level it like I did my lathe.  Not that it needs to be perfectly level but it can't hurt.

The problem with this option is that I would have to stand on my toes to change endmills.  I can stand flat footed right now and swap endmills but raising it up another 3" would really have me reaching.  I don' know if having the motor head that much closer to the ceiling would be an issue either.  I don't want to put a maxi torque on there either.

So it seems I'm left with stuffing shims under the mill.  Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,

Zack


----------



## talvare (Aug 16, 2021)

You can put the leveling feet under the mill utilizing the existing holes at each corner of the base which will keep it pretty low. Also, you can fabricate a system that will put the feet outside the base but raised so that the increased height will be minimal (attaching a photo of something similar I did for my vertical band saw).


----------



## rabler (Aug 16, 2021)

If you do raise it make sure the motor cooling fan on top still has plenty of room for circulating air.


----------



## Serpico1985 (Aug 16, 2021)

talvare,

I'm not sure how I'd use leveling feet without a crossbar.  Seems like there would be no way to adjust the feet since the base would be covering everything expect the feet.  

That stand you made looks excellent.  I can't weld and have zero fabrication experience so I don't think that's an option for me.  


rabler,

I agree, not sure how close I could get without issue.


----------



## jwmay (Aug 16, 2021)

You were gonna pay for the option you had quoted at H&W.  I'm sure they could build a stand like Talvere shows, with leveling feet in place Of the wheels.


----------



## akjeff (Aug 16, 2021)

I bought the feet kit only from H&W and made my own bars. Simple matter of cutting to length and drill & tap the holes. No fabbing involved, and saved a ton of money on shipping a pair of heavy steel bars. Once on the feet, it's possible to move your mill if need be, with a pallet jack. As for the height issue getting to the drawbar, you may consider going with an R8 to ER 32 or 40 adapter, and then no more reaching for the drawbar, just the brake lever. While you don't want to add a Maxi-Torque to your mill, if you do, you'll wonder why in the hell you hadn't done it sooner!
Beautiful shop, BTW.


----------



## talvare (Aug 16, 2021)

Serpico1985 said:


> talvare,
> 
> I'm not sure how I'd use leveling feet without a crossbar.  Seems like there would be no way to adjust the feet since the base would be covering everything expect the feet.


With your lathe you can make inserts that are threaded on both inside and outside (similar to thread inserts like Helicoils) and lock these into the holes at each corner of the base with nuts above and below or make the insert with a flange so it only needs one nut to lock it in place. You will likely have to increase the size of the existing holes in the base to accommodate these inserts. With these inserts in place you now have threads to screw the leveling feet into (like those shown from H&W)

Ted


----------



## aliva (Aug 16, 2021)

Another option no one has mentioned is grouting the mill. 
First level the mill with bolts in the floor and adjusting nuts Turn the adjusting nuts till the mill is level. Build a wooden frame around the base of the mill, about 1 or 2 inches  around the base. Seal the outer  edge  of the frame to the floor with silicone or caulking. Get some floor leveling grout and pour it into the frame till its level with the base of the mill. This method is a little time consuming but its guaranteed not to move and it will be level


----------



## Bi11Hudson (Aug 16, 2021)

aliva said:


> Another option no one has mentioned is grouting the mill.
> First level the mill with bolts in the floor and adjusting nuts Turn the adjusting nuts till the mill is level. Build a wooden frame around the base of the mill, about 1 or 2 inches  around the base. Seal the outer  edge  of the frame to the floor with silicone or caulking. Get some floor leveling grout and pour it into the frame till its level with the base of the mill. This method is a little time consuming but its guaranteed not to move and it will be level


That actually is the proper way to mount any heavy machine. The only problem I foresee is just how strong is the floor concrete. If this were an industrial floor, I would concur 100%. But many basement floors are only a 2 or 3 inch slab over a questionable base. An *a*ttached garage might be 4 inch, a *de*tached garage in my area is often 2 inch. The machine might be rigidly attached to the floor, but where is the floor? And will it stay there? For the given situation, I would use some heavy angles attached to the *top* of the base and then level with the angles. The machine doesn't need to be level, but it *must* be true (no twist), and stable. The stability is the big issue. And keeping that stability over time. It may be true now, but over time the concrete floor may shift. Over a ton and a half with a footprint of 4 square feet(m/l) is a lot of weight.

.


----------



## yota (Aug 16, 2021)

I've never seen any slab only 2" thick.  I live in the south though.  4" is standard.  my home shop has an 8" thick slab as the PO ran a metal fabrication business in it.  I can't imagine a 2" thick slab holding up for long.  sounds like something the "travelers" would build for someone.


----------



## Serpico1985 (Aug 16, 2021)

Thank you all for the ideas and info.


----------



## Bi11Hudson (Aug 17, 2021)

yota said:


> I can't imagine a 2" thick slab holding up for long. sounds like something the "travelers" would build for someone.


"Flybynite" Construction Co.


----------



## aliva (Aug 17, 2021)

Bi11Hudson said:


> That actually is the proper way to mount any heavy machine. The only problem I foresee is just how strong is the floor concrete. If this were an industrial floor, I would concur 100%. But many basement floors are only a 2 or 3 inch slab over a questionable base. An *a*ttached garage might be 4 inch, a *de*tached garage in my area is often 2 inch. The machine might be rigidly attached to the floor, but where is the floor? And will it stay there? For the given situation, I would use some heavy angles attached to the *top* of the base and then level with the angles. The machine doesn't need to be level, but it *must* be true (no twist), and stable. The stability is the big issue. And keeping that stability over time. It may be true now, but over time the concrete floor may shift. Over a ton and a half with a footprint of 4 square feet(m/l) is a lot of weight.
> 
> .


My suggestion was based on the assumption your floor is strong enough to support the mill.
If you feel the floor is to weak, then mount a steel plate  of appropriate thickness ( 3/4" maybe) and size to spread the weight over a larger area level the mill then grout.
You say the mill doesn't have to be level, I strongly suggest that you level it. Leveling is not needed for proper operation of the mill, but makes setups much easier.


----------



## Cletus (Aug 17, 2021)

I'm bolting my 935 mill to two, 1/4" thick 2" x 4"  Steel channels each 26" long, across the underside, front and back. At the ends of the channels, will be the yellow leveling feet PM sells. Hoping for leveling, stability and vibration mitigation.


----------



## JimDawson (Aug 17, 2021)

Nice machine!  I just shimmed mine with some sheet metal shims.  On one other machine, I tapped the bolt holes and screwed in some feet similar to the ones in the BP kit.

You could also tap the holes and just make some B7 all thread studs and use some 4 x 4 x 3/8 thick plates.  Put a divot in the center of the plate with a 3/4'' drill bit to keep it centered.  This way would minimize the height change.


----------



## Barncat (Aug 17, 2021)

Can I shamelessly plug something I am selling? https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/unisorb-machine-leveler-anti-vibe-mounts.94101/


----------



## matthewsx (Aug 17, 2021)

How about this?


----------



## Cletus (Aug 17, 2021)

Now, That's a Mill!   ......Just showed the boss lady that pic and said "...it's a pic of the mill I just bought, an investment in our Grand Children's future............."   I can tell you right now, I've never seen that look before!!    ......."Make room Rover, I'm camping out with you tonight"


----------



## Tipton1965 (Aug 17, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> How about this?
> 
> View attachment 375643


I'm surprised there aren't railings around that elevated base for fall protection.  Probably not OSHA approved.


----------



## akjeff (Aug 18, 2021)

Tipton1965 said:


> I'm surprised there aren't railings around that elevated base for fall protection.  Probably not OSHA approved.


Safety third!


----------



## matthewsx (Aug 18, 2021)

akjeff said:


> Safety third!


Burner


----------

