# Lathe tooling upgrade, another novice learns the obviou$



## rabler (May 28, 2021)

I started out about 4 years ago with a small lathe 10x22 lathe, 1HP, Chinese made.  Without knowing anyone that is a capable machinist, I've been learning through YouTube and trial and error.  I've mostly been using insert tooling, I've ground a few HSS tools but honing them to a fine edge hasn't been something I really have the patience to do.  I have consistently used HSS for parting, hollow grind the blade and then hone it on a diamond stone.  Made a few form tools for brass or aluminum.  I'm hoping to take up @janderson's build (following youtuber Stefan Gotteswinter) of building a small low-speed diamond lapping machine that should improve my ability to hone HSS, hoping that'll get me a bit more into that.

About 6 months ago I got my Monarch 12CK running after new motor & VFD, complete rebuild of the apron and QCGB.  Of course I needed the smaller lathe to turn a lot of the parts I needed to fix that Monarch, mostly bronze bushings but the feed rod needed to be welded up, straightened, and re-turned.  On the small lathe, the machine rigidity was the biggest barrier to nice finishes.  On the larger lathe, huge difference in rigidity, and suddenly pursuing directly turned finishes (rather than sanding and scotchbrite) became more of an option.

To keep a long story from turning into an epic novel, I had been using Shars insertholders and inserts.  After reading David's (@davidpbest) book on insert tooling for a medium sized lathe, I opted to buy some ISCAR inserts and insertholders.  About $300 for these two tools in 5/8" and ten WNMG331 F3M (finishing) IC807 inserts.  Difference in finish was pretty dramatic, this slug of 1018 CRS was turned with the old tooling in the area by the jaws, and then turned today on the tailstock end with the ISCAR tooling.  Pretty dramatic, given this is the first few cuts with the new tooling.

I'm not sure I completely buy into _buy once, cry once_, as starting in something it is worth not jumping on top quality/top dollar, but it is hard to argue that the quality difference is less than significant.

edited to add: I'll be interested to see how this effects cutting to a diameter.  Something to try another day ...


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## sdy5001 (May 28, 2021)

Great write up with bits that must resonate almost universally true to most humans, machinist or not ... I have always been a fan of buying something used or import or whatever when entering a new realm of experience to test the waters and if you're going to commit, then commit and had almost the same sequence happen but substitute kennametal and it made everything easier and more fun so money well spent

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## mmcmdl (May 28, 2021)

You can buy inserts for a buck or $20 a piece . Each will cut , but imagine running production on cnc's with these cheap arse inserts . My Valenite rep's phone # was plastered to my desk for many years . His saying was " get the right tool for the job " .  Just like the lottery , you gotta pay to play .


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## markba633csi (May 29, 2021)

Yes as Anton Chigurr would say, "use the one right tool"


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## rabler (May 29, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> Just like the lottery , you gotta pay to play .


No doubt.  You pay in both money and time.  I think there is a matching progression of skill, starting out with cheap stuff and moving up as you learn.


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## Mitch Alsup (May 29, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> Just like the lottery , you gotta pay to play .



I have never played the lottery.

I happen to have taken 3 semesters of "statistics" in college and know the odds.......


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## hman (May 29, 2021)

I sometimes refer to the lottery as the "stupidity tax"


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## Splat (May 31, 2021)

Don't give up totally on HSS tooling. It'll save your proverbial keister one day.


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## rabler (May 31, 2021)

Splat said:


> Don't give up totally on HSS tooling. It'll save your proverbial keister one day.


I’m not, I’m actually working on building a lapping machine, mostly to do fine honing on hss and carbide scrapers.


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## keeena (Jun 4, 2021)

I have a mix of inexpensive and brand-name carbide. One of the biggest improvements was going to high-end mfr for parting inserts: night and day difference. I happen to use ISCAR blades and holders ~2-3mm wide and they work great on a 12x36 import lathe.


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## BGHansen (Jun 4, 2021)

Mitch Alsup said:


> I have never played the lottery.
> 
> I happen to have taken 3 semesters of "statistics" in college and know the odds.......


I tell my wife that I never play the lottery because I used up all of my luck when I met her!  She, like me and lottery tickets, doesn't buy it.

Bruce


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## FOMOGO (Jun 4, 2021)

At least if you burn your money, you get a little heat. Mike


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## Shotgun (Jun 4, 2021)

I've mostly used cheap taps most of my life, but I had bought a mid-range set a while back.  Broke my cheap M8x1.25 last night, and remembered that I had the set.

It went through the A36 steel so easily that I kept checking to see if I had drilled the hole oversize.  Nope.  Perfect threads.  I was actually amazed to the point of confusion.


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## Larry$ (Jun 4, 2021)

For my business I always bought top of the line tooling and equipment. 
Since starting a machining hobby I've started with cheap to see if I really needed something. If it is something i use fairly often I will replace the cheap stuff with name brand. I still use HSS 50% of the time. Getting nice insert tools isn't so bad but $15 inserts in 10 packs has slowed me down on getting more tooling.


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## Shotgun (Jun 7, 2021)

Larry$ said:


> For my business I always bought top of the line tooling and equipment.
> Since starting a machining hobby I've started with cheap to see if I really needed something. If it is something i use fairly often I will replace the cheap stuff with name brand. I still use HSS 50% of the time. Getting nice insert tools isn't so bad but $15 inserts in 10 packs has slowed me down on getting more tooling.


I'd rather pay $15 for a ten pack, and throw out half of them.  It seems that I do a lot of interrupted cuts to make rusty scrap usable, and that is going to destroy any insert, but the cheap imports still seem to be performing better than the HSS I worked with before.


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