# Help Me Get Shapering!



## Weldo (Jun 6, 2020)

Hey all, I just recently joined the Atlas 7B club!  I picked up the machine from a member a few weeks ago.  I had to disassemble it somewhat to get it down my basement steps into my workshop.  After getting it lifted up and re-mounted to the stand I want to ask you guys for some advice before I start using it.  Mainly I'm wondering about lubrication.

I have a lubrication chart along with a reprint of the original manual but what I'd like to know is which fittings on my particular machine are factory and which have been added by previous owners.  I'd like the machine to be as it was from Atlas all those years ago unless, in your guys' opinions, the changes are made for the better.

First a shot of the machine on it's table, I had to remove the motor and related bracketry to lighten the load.  I used a full size sheet pan for an oil tray.  Hopefully it catches most of the drippings.  I've heard that these machines when properly lubed will leak oil a lot.








Now to the main issues.  It looks like a previous owner had used grease on the ram.  According to the manual this is incorrect.  I'd like to rectify this before I begin using the machine.






On the left side of the ram is this grease fitting.  I'm guessing it's not factory?  The other side has just a small threaded hole.  Are these meant to be oil cups?







Here you can see a zerk fitting has been added on the inside of the grease cup on one of the shafts.  The cup is still present, just removed for the picture.  Am I correct that there should be no zerk here, only a hole for the grease cup to press the grease into the shaft?







Here's some more zerk fittings.  Are these ones correct?











The oilers in the pic below look like factory fittings.







Finally there's this hole at the rear of the machine.  Should it be plugged?  It has threads.







Thanks in advance for any help and advice!  There's a lot of knowledge on this forum, I hope I can glean something from it!


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## C-Bag (Jun 6, 2020)

Hi Weldo, congrats and welcome to the shaper club! I was wondering what you’ve been up to.

my 7b has no grease zeros anywhere. The one on the pulley shaft isn’t that bad of an idea IMHO, mine also has the grease cap on the other side. It takes some getting used to to use them. Too bad they decided to do grease on the arm, shouldn’t be that bad to clean up as you just have to pull the upper shim plates and weasel the grease out. Then replace the oilers on both sides. BTW kudos on the bake pan, I need one of them. That should catch everything.

There also wasn’t any grease in bull gear shaft. That would be way harder to get out and am not sure if it needs out like the arm. Mine I use way oil on everything for oil and Red and Tacky for all grease. Also use way oil on the three lead screws.


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## benmychree (Jun 6, 2020)

Machine slides never use grease, and grease should never be used on most machine parts, as it attracts and holds chips and dirt and causes damage.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 6, 2020)

someone went to a lot of trouble to turn an oil lubed machine into a grease lubed machine- all for nothing
run it on oil forget the grease


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## Weldo (Jun 6, 2020)

Thanks guys.  So what should I be looking for as far as replacement parts.  I gather that this machine should have zero zerk fittings so should everything be oil cups like on an old Atlas lathe?

Or would the zerks be replaced with those flush mounted kind of oilers?

Also how tough is it to remove the ram to clean out the grease?  I imagine you would remove the two top plates holding the ram into the slide channel but what kind of connections exist inside the machine body?  Is it worth trying to disassemble it completely just to clean out the grease?


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## C-Bag (Jun 6, 2020)

the ram oilers are those cup type of oilers as is the one on the bull gear shaft. But I’m afraid it wouldn’t do anything if you tried to oil it after it’s been pumped full of grease.

it’s not the easiest thing to remove the ram, just be careful as it has a hidden taper pin and other little surprises that’s not well documented by the “manual”. I hate to be vague but it’s been several years since I got into mine. Mine had several problems and was really dirty for decades of sitting. Luckily it had been generously oiled so there was no rust, just needed a cleaning and a number of problems that I think were caused be people who didn’t know how to run or adjust the machine. i was lucky they didn’t put grease where oil should have been.


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## Weldo (Jun 7, 2020)

This morning I removed all the grease fittings and started taking stock.

Here's the grease cup removed from the pinion shaft.  The zerk pulled right out and this is good to go like factory.







This one is supposed to be a grease cup also.  It's the opposite side of the pinion shaft.  If I can't find a threaded grease cup I can re use the zerk.  The lube chart calls for grease on this shaft.  It's one of the only places where grease is speced.












Next was the fitting on the feed case.  This is supposed to be a oiler cup.  Unfortunately it's pumped full of grease.












Here's some shots of the inside.  Grease abounds.






















Grease is the correct lube for the gears according to the lube chart.  Occasionally some graphite based grease should be applied to the gear teeth.  All the other grease is not proper.

I'm now looking at disassembling almost the entire machine to clean it up enough to accept oiling.  Personally I feel like grease is not a bad choice for a lot of the inside parts pictured above since they are shielded from dust and chips, but the manual calls for oil on everything except the gear teeth.

Anyone know of a good resource for tearing this thing down?


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## Weldo (Jun 7, 2020)

I found some oilers on ebay.  NOS from Gits, Oilers

As far as I could tell these are the proper ones, press fit into a 1/4" hole.

For the grease cup on the left side of the pinion shaft, this one.






I'm guessing these are 1/8" NPT threads?


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## Weldo (Jun 7, 2020)

Just picked up one of these too.

Grease Cup

I also bought a 5/16" oil cup for this hole on top of the ram.  The parts list doesn't show one there but it seems better to cover it with an oiler than leave the hole open.






I think that's all the parts I need.


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## ErichKeane (Jun 7, 2020)

My atlas is relatively untouched, and I have the zerk on the left-side as well. Though, I'm missing the grease cup on the right-side (operator side).  I've been greasing it by plopping some in the center, then running a bolt in the middle.

The rest of mine is either ball oilers (where you have them), or the gits cups.


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## ErichKeane (Jun 7, 2020)

As far as tearing it down... I think pulling the ram is a good idea (sorry, no good resources), but I'd consider leaving the gears as they are.  I think the oil port in the middle is a 'drip' style (and likely not filled with grease), so you might be able to basically just hose down the inside with degreaser, and soak it out of the bottom.


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## Weldo (Jun 7, 2020)

I'm still looking for one more Gits oil cup.  In the above picture you can see a zerk on the countershaft.  It's supposed to be an elbow style oil cup.  I'm trying to find one for a reasonable price.


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## Weldo (Jun 7, 2020)

ErichKeane said:


> As far as tearing it down... I think pulling the ram is a good idea (sorry, no good resources), but I'd consider leaving the gears as they are. I think the oil port in the middle is a 'drip' style (and likely not filled with grease), so you might be able to basically just hose down the inside with degreaser, and soak it out of the bottom.



That's not a bad idea.  I'll get into tearing it down soon and document it well for future.

I'll likely not want to tangle with the innards so I may just do as you suggest.  I'll get all the excess grease I can see than maybe spray it all down with mineral spirits or kerosene or something to clean it.


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## ErichKeane (Jun 7, 2020)

Weldo said:


> I'm still looking for one more Gits oil cup.  In the above picture you can see a zerk on the countershaft.  It's supposed to be an elbow style oil cup.  I'm trying to find one for a reasonable price.



I unfortunately don't have a good source for them, I ended up needing one and spending too much (like $20/each!) at mcmaster.


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## Weldo (Jun 7, 2020)

I toyed around with the idea of using zerks with an oil gun like this one.







See the below vid for a demonstration of how this type of gun works.  Until I saw this video it was unknown to me.

The lube job starts at 1:56.  In the vid John explains how the zerk fittings on his lathe are meant for oil, not for grease and proceeds to lube them with this plunger type oil gun.  Looks to be quick and easy, however, the temptation to the uninitiated is to use the fittings for grease as opposed to oil.


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## ErichKeane (Jun 7, 2020)

I actually have a similar tool (https://www.icai-online.com/push-n-lube-oiler.html).  My mill is all zerks, but is supposed to be oiled (factory directions!).  That push-n-lube has worked great for me.


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## Weldo (Jun 7, 2020)

Hmmm.  Now I'm starting to think I could use the zerks with a plunger oiler like the bridgeport one you linked.  It would be quick and easy.


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## ErichKeane (Jun 7, 2020)

It works pretty great! As you mentioned, the only downside to it is that people see zerks, and use grease.  On my mill (which is all zerks), someone had pumped the machine full of grease as well.  I suspect someone who just didn't know.

I wonder if the same happened to your machine.  Someone swapped a bunch of cups (damaged one?  Or just wanted to unify to match a mill sitting next to it?) for zerks, and went on oiling it.  It passed onto the next person, who saw zerks and decided they needed grease.  The rest is sticky history  

In the case of my mill, I had to tear it down and use a bunch of pipe cleaners to get rid of all the grease.  In your case, I think I would hose down the inside (aerosol degreaser would make quick work of it), then pull the ram to wipe it down.

The only one I'd be concerned about is the one above the stroke adjustment.  Though, I suspect you could put some degreaser in a push-n-lube to force the grease out, and then just force some oil in behind it.


FYI, I JUST got my 7A as well, See https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/new-atlas-7b-shaper.84336/ .  You can see what I mean about the grease cup on the near-side of the main shaft.  The only hold up I had getting mine running though was to make a vise!


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## ttabbal (Jun 7, 2020)

I had to clean grease out of my Bridgeport as well. I replaced the zerks with some from an auto parts store. They work, but the push oiler doesn't seal against them. I modified a grease gun to pump oil into them that way. At some point I would like to swap them out and try getting the push oiler working. The grease gun is annoying in some of the tighter spots.


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## Weldo (Jun 7, 2020)

ErichKeane said:


> wonder if the same happened to your machine. Someone swapped a bunch of cups (damaged one? Or just wanted to unify to match a mill sitting next to it?) for zerks, and went on oiling it. It passed onto the next person, who saw zerks and decided they needed grease. The rest is sticky history



You are probably right about that.

I think I will go ahead and use the zerk fittings.  I like the simplicity and cleanliness.  I have oil cups all over my Atlas lathe and they often over flow when filling.  I like that the zerks make it a closed system and you can force oil into the small gaps.  

Of course I already bought some Gits oil cups, so if anyone needs a few I have some on the way that I'll probably not use.



ttabbal said:


> I replaced the zerks with some from an auto parts store. They work, but the push oiler doesn't seal against them.



Do you know if there are different types of zerks?  Like a kind for oil and a kind for grease?  Or maybe the auto part store fittings were a low quality?


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## Weldo (Jun 7, 2020)

Well, I got the ram off.  Took awhile to figure out the procedure.  

I also ordered up some press in zerk fittings.  Got 25 1/4" fittings for like $7 from ebay.  If this works out I may swap the cups for zerks on my lathe.

The more I look at the filthy, sticky innards of this machine the more I want to take it down completely.  I haven't found much in the way of instructions for this so I may just dive in blind and start removing parts.  How wrong can it go?

I'll start a new thread here in a minute to document the process.  I took 40 pics in the ram removal process.

Oh, are the ways supposed to be scraped on the ram?  They are not scraped on my machine...  Is that necessary, or just an upgrade?


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## ttabbal (Jun 7, 2020)

Weldo said:


> Do you know if there are different types of zerks?  Like a kind for oil and a kind for grease?  Or maybe the auto part store fittings were a low quality?



I'm not sure. It's entirely possible that the auto store units are not great, but they do work. The ones that came on the mill are shaped a bit differently, a larger flat area on the end. I suspect that's the biggest difference. I was planning to just get the OEM parts.


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## ErichKeane (Jun 7, 2020)

I picked a bulk pack of zerks up at one point on amazon that I had good luck with: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DMDC6CB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Seemingly unavailable, but it had all 3 types of the ones I needed for my mill.

Actually, now that I see that, I could just use one of those instead of the grease cap!  I didn't realize I HAD some 1/8-27! My mill was all 1/4-28.


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## frugalguido (Jun 8, 2020)

Weldo said:


> Oh, are the ways supposed to be scraped on the ram?  They are not scraped on my machine...  Is that necessary, or just an upgrade?


Not scraped from the factory.


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## Weldo (Jun 13, 2020)

Ordered up some lubrication accessories!

Gonna try this oil out, ISO 32.  The manual recommends "No. 10 motor oil" which I assume is SAE 10.  From my research, ISO 32 is the same as SAE 10.  I figured I'll try this renewable non toxic kind of oil.  It'll likely end up all over my hands when using the machine so the non toxic-ness is a bonus.

Oil

And this push style oiler.  You can get this thing with up to 3700 psi application but the one I got is only 20 psi.  The higher pressure ones take over 30 pumps to dispense 1 ounce of oil!  With such lightweight oil I don't think the high pressure is needed.  Most of the oiling on the shaper is pretty open anyway, no real need for high pressure.

Oiler

I'll try it out and see if it's gonna work.  If I need a higher pressure oiler they're not too pricey.


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## 9t8z28 (Sep 19, 2020)

Weldo, I am not sure if anyone has responded yet but the threaded hole in the back of the base is for a conduit fitting.  The original fitting was threaded into the base.  The fitting was hollow because the flexible steel conduit (spiral wound) went through it and ran up the side of the main casting to the on/off switch and the other side was connected to the motor.  The conduit fitting also clamps the flexible conduit so it can't be pulled out.   The flexible conduit was also secured to the inside of the casting by 2 or 3 clamps which held it firmly in place because it literally ran right behind the bull gear.  The tolerances by the switch are tight!  These clamps were held in place by flat head screws.  

The below pic shows the clamp.  I will try and get a pic of the conduit and clamps by themselves but at the moment these are the best pics I have already taken.  Oh and ignore the shoddy wiring job done by the previous owner!  







In the below photo I have circled where the clamps for the conduit are secured.  Its not the best photo but you get the point.  The top red circle shows the screw on the casting just behind the makeshift switch housing which I will be replacing, I just need to find a switch that fits in the rectangular hole.  







Weldo said:


> Finally there's this hole at the rear of the machine.  Should it be plugged?  It has threads.
> 
> View attachment 326589


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## NC Rick (Sep 19, 2020)

That little shaper is so cute!  I like it.  the big ones just wouldn't be worth the room but one like that would be fun!  I can't wait to see photos of yours working.  Thanks for sharing.


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## C-Bag (Sep 19, 2020)

They’re not just cute Rick, they are useful. There are quite a few fans of shapers who see the small ones as useless but I have almost exclusively the larger end of bench machines and my 7b does work that my drill/mill doesn‘t do as well. Like as close to a ground finish as you can get. I can’t cut inside key ways with my mill, which I can with the 7b. I can also cut dovetails without buying special cutters. 

I don’t have any CNC so the 7b is the only machine I can set up and let go while it do something else. It’s super cheap to run. It’s just not fast, but neither am i. It also doesn’t take up hardly any room and runs on 110v.


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## Weldo (Dec 29, 2020)

After much time and effort my little 7B is back together and ready to shape!  I'd like to resurrect this thread to ask questions about the use of the thing.  Even though I'm now intimately familiar with its inner workings, I still have to learn how to use it!

Firstly, I did a dry run with the table cross feed.  There was no cutting, just table feeding across with the ram moving.  After a few seconds I notice a weird noise and discover that the feed gear T nut has loosened.







I didn't wanna crank it down super tight, but I guess you have to?  Does this bolt have to be super, gorilla tight?

Also what's the consensus on tool head adjustment?  The tool head on the shaper is pretty much a compound like on a lathe and usually we like to have the compound fully engaged on its dovetail for general turning.  This is most rigid.  Does the same apply to the shaper or is the loading different and it doesn't really matter?

The pic below is just me getting an idea of where things should be and where they'll end up during a cut.  It's not a final setup, but you can see the slide is not fully on its dovetail.  Is that something to be concerned about?


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## Weldo (Dec 29, 2020)

@9t8z28 hey man, it's bit late but thanks for sharing those pics!  Now I know what that hole is for!

I didn't get it at first because all the wiring on my machine is external.  There are no wires on the inside at all.  Some one ran the flexible conduit from the motor to a switch mounted to the table that the shaper sits on.  In my case the hole is unused.

Mine had this plate covering the switch location.


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## C-Bag (Dec 29, 2020)

It’s best to really tighten that feed t nut as tight as possible. I’m not sure but I think that’s one of the leading causes of ratchet box crashes. And believe me you DON’T want that to happen.

For me the cutter head it too high. I shoot for the dovetails being fully engaged and work down from there. I also put a couple of quick lock handles on the head to lock and unlock the head gibs. This vastly improved my accuracy as it will want to pull the head down or push it up if you have any lash in the feed screw like I do. It’s on the list to be replaced along with the table feed.


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## Weldo (Dec 29, 2020)

Thanks for the advice!  

The trouble I was having with the cutter head is that I can't get the table to go any lower.  How can I reconcile this issue?


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## C-Bag (Dec 29, 2020)

Two things, do you have the pivot under the stock vise? I took mine out. Is your foot under the table up as high as it can go?


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## C-Bag (Dec 29, 2020)

Your cutter is too long IMHO. Especially on the backside making your holder stick down to far. I have mine  as close as possible. 

Also shaper cutters are not ground like lathe cutters. I was lucky mine came with one already ground. It’s basically round, not pointy.


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## Weldo (Dec 29, 2020)

I do still have the swivel base on there.

The table foot is all the way up.

Point taken on the cutter.  I got with this machine a small can of hss cutters.  Some were cut down to about 1” long and I guess that’s why.

Point also taken on the tool grind.  I randomly picked one from the can that looked like a lathe cutter.  But after looking at the shaper manual there is definitely a unique grind for shaping.

So how is your vise bolted to the table?  Just using the two bolts that secure it to the swivel base?


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## benmychree (Dec 29, 2020)

Things must be tightened enough so they do not move, and the down feed slide is ideally fully engaged, but not a biggie if it is not, gibs should be tight enough so that the slide does not feed down during the cut.


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## benmychree (Dec 29, 2020)

You may find that the way your tool holder is installed will tend to cause chatter, you can turn it around so the tool is behind the shank rather than in front, they were designed to work either way.


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## Weldo (Dec 29, 2020)

benmychree said:


> You may find that the way your tool holder is installed will tend to cause chatter, you can turn it around so the tool is behind the shank rather than in front, they were designed to work either way.



Thanks!  I do seem to remember seeing/reading about that somewhere in the past.

As far as cutters go, I think I'm on a better track here.

The manual says this tool shape is "narrow roughing".  I chose it because it looked the simplest for my first attempt at grinding a shaper tool.  The top rake is zero.













With the tool nearly touching I'm almost all the way in the dovetail.  Also notice the tool post washer in the pic below.  Shouldn't there be a rocker?  Otherwise there's no need for a concavity, right?







I like the idea of slide locks too.  @frugalguido suggested the same thing on my rebuild thread.  What kind of screws are you guys using for slide locks?  Thumb screws?  Should there be one or two?

Thanks for the help so far!


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## benmychree (Dec 29, 2020)

The tool that you show would be appropriate for brass, for ferrous metals, it should have both side and back rake.  Shaper tools need little clearance on the front or side, but need rake on top to cut freely.


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## benmychree (Dec 29, 2020)

One binder on the top slide is enough, I favor a lever so it can be easily set up or released.


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## benmychree (Dec 29, 2020)

The tool that I use for roughing on the shaper has a large radius on the cutting face, culminating in a small radius at the point, then continuing back to a large radius on the backside, then having a generous side rake on top.  This is the sort of tool that F.W. Taylor determined to be the most efficient tool for removing metal, whether for lathe, shaper, planer or whatever.  He published a summary of his work in 1897 or 1898, titled "on the art of cutting metals", it has diagrams of the tool shapes, this after 26 years of experimentation under the patronage of William Sellers.


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## Weldo (Dec 29, 2020)

benmychree said:


> The tool that you show would be appropriate for brass, for ferrous metals, it should have both side and back rake. Shaper tools need little clearance on the front or side, but need rake on top to cut freely.



Hmm.  You think I could just grind some top rake on the tool I have?

Got any pictures of the tool you described?


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## Weldo (Dec 30, 2020)

I made some cuts this morning!

I ended up just using the tool I picted above but I did grind some top rake into it.  In my research, it seemed that a round nose tool with some top rake is a decent general purpose cutter.  My profile was like a mini version of that.

I had a few issues.  It was for me that 0.007" depth of cut was the max I could do.  I was able to cut 0.010" DOC for a few strokes but halfway across my workpiece the ram stalled out.  I noticed the motor was spinning and the countershaft was spinning but the belt was slipping on the countershaft step pulley.  So nothing catastrophic happened.  I'm using a link belt until I get a proper V-belt and I think maybe it stretched a little since it's been running.

Also, as you'll see in the video below (at about 20 seconds in) the guard keeps popping open on me while the machine is cutting.  I think I need to get the tab on the guard to go a little deeper into the spring latch on the column.  Maybe I can just grind the tab shorter.

Below are a few pics of my workpiece and a short vid.  The camera struggled for focus on the repetitive moving of the ram though.


















The finish is very rough for sure.  The tool I used was probably not ideal but I had come to a point where I just wanted to try the thing out.  I could read for weeks on proper tool edge geometry but I figure I may as well dive in and learn as I go.  No one's gonna be an expert their first time, right?

Here's a short fuzzy video!





Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## frugalguido (Dec 30, 2020)

Weldo said:


> @9t8z28 hey man, it's bit late but thanks for sharing those pics!  Now I know what that hole is for!
> 
> I didn't get it at first because all the wiring on my machine is external.  There are no wires on the inside at all.  Some one ran the flexible conduit from the motor to a switch mounted to the table that the shaper sits on.  In my case the hole is unused.
> 
> ...


That plate is for the optional motor saver, which was mostly sold to schools, if the shaper jammed for any reason (kids messing up) it would save the motor. When using the motor wiring was run on the outside of the shaper body as yours is not on the inside. Here is a picture of my restored shaper with that switch.


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## Weldo (Dec 30, 2020)

Cool, thanks!  Beautiful machine by the way!  Were the belt guards optional as well?  I've noticed not all 7Bs have them.


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## Weldo (Dec 30, 2020)

I got around to making another cut with some changes.

The cuts below came out much smoother than the previous ones.   I noticed that there was a small amount of chipping on my previous cutter from when I stalled the ram that likely led to my very rough finish.

For the cut pictured below I used a rounded tip cutter with some top rake.  Not sure how much exactly.  The DOC was 0.005" and I reduced the step over from 3 clicks on the previous cut to 1 click.  I also used some cutting oil and flipped the tool holder around as described by @benmychree above.  Finally I removed 1 link from the link belt to tighten it up and set the ram speed to the 2nd slowest speed.  The previous cut was at the slowest speed.

Here's the cutter.







And the cut.







This cut is very smooth, almost feels sanded.


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## frugalguido (Dec 30, 2020)

Weldo said:


> Cool, thanks!  Beautiful machine by the way!  Were the belt guards optional as well?  I've noticed not all 7Bs have them.


Thanks it was labor of love. Yes, the guards where optional.  I only have the small guard, I hoping that one day I can find the large one for a reasonable amount.  I don't want the newly made plastic one.  I don't really miss it, since you have to constantly open and close it to change speeds, but it would be nice to complete the machine.

The Motor saver and bracket are really rare, hardly any of the 7's had them.

Be sure to over oil the machine, that is the one weakness of the 7's poor oiling.


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## Weldo (Dec 30, 2020)

Hey, I'd appreciate if you guys would take a quick look at this video.

I'm hearing a somewhat pronounced "Kuh-Chunk" every time the ram changes directions.  Is that normal or should I be looking for some loose or sloppy fitting parts?





Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## frugalguido (Dec 30, 2020)

Slop in the yoke/sliding block, common problem and/or a broken pinion in the sliding block also seen many with this problem. Wear, amplified because of poor oiling. This is where the South Bend shaper, later models,  they are superior that they had a built in oil pump.


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## Weldo (Dec 30, 2020)

I found the following quotes from my rebuild thread.  I'm glad I documented everything.



frugalguido said:


> Yes, the position of the block in the crank arm that sets the ram stroke length. No, on the limit,  I measured the room left between the stock block and the arm with it assembled at the max stroke length , then added this amount to each end of the block. I hope you are going to make a new block? Yours looks pretty bad, have you measured your slot width for wear and grooves? Mine was worn in the center of the slot, probably from being used at a small stroke length most of its time. The block must be fitted with a very small clearance to the slot or you get a clunk when the ram changes position. This area of the shaper is a high load situation , which is why the pivot pin was broken and the sliding block wear takes place.






Weldo said:


> I just spent some time with my parts and a feeler gauge.  Looks like I have about 0.005-0.006" on one end, about 0.007" on the other end and 0.011" in the middle.
> 
> Any idea what's the target?  Some gap is required for a film of oil I'd imagine.



Sounds like it's exactly as you said, @frugalguido, I need to make a new sliding block.  I may have a few question regarding this if, you don't mind.


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## frugalguido (Dec 30, 2020)

No problem on questions. A couple of things, After you get the plate off of the yoke and get the sliding block out of the way, BE SURE and check the pivot pin is still attached firmly to the adjusting plate. This thing is a real ****ty design, the pivot is pressed into the adjusting plate and welded, not enough area that contacts the pivot and the adjusting plate and it brakes loose.   This is what takes that all the force of moving the ram back and forth. Mine was fixed before and it broke again. I remade all of this, it's a big job.
     Second, The block has to have very little clearance if you can properly lube it. It's a high wear item though, I set mine up pretty tight and it's starting to loose up a little, but way better than the factory loose setup. Next item is the yoke itself, as mentioned before it was worn more in the center of the stroke more than at the ends, I had to scrape the yoke to make up for wear.
To summarize, check the pivot first before worrying about the sliding block clearance, if the pivot ok, then its up to you if you can live with the clank of a loose fitting block. If it has pivot problems then you have to fix the pivot for sure, because it will cause even more wear on the block and the yoke.


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## benmychree (Dec 30, 2020)

Weldo said:


> Hmm.  You think I could just grind some top rake on the tool I have?
> 
> Got any pictures of the tool you described?


Somewhat like the tool you are using, but with a smaller radius at the nose and more side rake.


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## twraska (Dec 30, 2020)

I didn’t read all the responses so someone may have already said this.... I’d use brake cleaner, mineral spirits or other such solvents to clean out the grease. Then,,,, generously oil the machine, using pressure from a pump up sprayer if necessary, until all is oiled up.  I’ve used this technique to get grease zeros freed up when they were full of dirt and /or dried up grease.


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## Weldo (Dec 31, 2020)

Thanks @frugalguido 

My pin was broken as well.  I grooved it out heavily and welded it with Hastelloy-W.  Supposedly this is a great rod for tough applications like tool steels and applications that necessitate high strength.  I doubt it has broken again after just a few minutes of shaping but I'll check it out and keep and eye on it.












Did you remake your plate/pin in one piece?  I think you shared that on my rebuild thread but I can't remember.


Based on my clearance findings and your information that it should be a close fit, I'm guessing that my block is woefully undersized.  Like I quoted, I found about 0.011" of clearance in the center of the yoke/block fit and about 0.006-0.007" at either end.

If I remade my block about 0.005" bigger than it is, I would have about 0.001-0.002" on the ends and about 0.006" in the center of the yoke.  In your opinion is that still more clearance than I want?  Otherwise I have to do major disassembly to open up the yoke somehow.


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## frugalguido (Dec 31, 2020)

No, two piece. I finally realized that we talked about this before in the other thread, Sorry for rehashing this again here. 

I guess it depends on what you are wanting out of the shaper? Noise ok? plan on using a lot? If you are, then noise is going to get worse.  I tend to be anal about this sort of thing, To make a new block properly is not a small job and you are still not totally fixing the problem, the yoke is still bigger in the center and no matter what how small the stroke length is set for it's still using the center of the yoke all the time where the wear is, which wears it even more. IMHO, I think you have to fix the wear in the yoke, then make new block to fit the yoke if you want to make it right.


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## Weldo (Dec 31, 2020)

I agree with you. 

Well my original goal was to make chips before the end of the year and I accomplished that much.  Now I don't feel as bad about doing another tear down.  At least this time I can leave most of the gears and bearings in place.

The trouble is that I need the shaper to make the block but I can't get a good number without tearing it apart...

So I'd have to tear it down, measure the yoke and get a good number, then reassemble it with the old worn parts, cut the block, then disassemble everything again to fix the wear in the yoke.  Then I can finally reassemble the yoke with the new block.

Sound about right?

Do you think I could fix 0.005" or so of wear on the yoke with just hand files?  You mentioned that you scraped yours into straightness, but I've never scraped before and have no knowledge of it or tools for it.


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## Weldo (Dec 31, 2020)

Oh, and what clearance between the yoke and block did you shoot for when you did this?


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## frugalguido (Dec 31, 2020)

Weldo said:


> Oh, and what clearance between the yoke and block did you shoot for when you did this?


I can't remember off the top of my head, but I want to say .001-.002 clearance. I think that I have spare yoke that I would let you borrow to use while you fix yours, not sure of its condition though. I'll have to see if I can find it, its been awhile.


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## Weldo (Dec 31, 2020)

I appreciate the offer, but I’ll try to do it without troubling you.  I think I can do the process outlined above, it’s just a little more work.

If my observations were accurate during my rebuild, the difference between the worn center of the yoke and the not-as-worn ends is only about 0.004-0.006”.  That means I’d only have to remove about 0.003” per side wall of the yoke, removing material equally on each side wall.  Such a small amount could probably be done with files, stones or sanding blocks.

I’ll start digging into this soon.


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## frugalguido (Jan 1, 2021)

Depending on the equipment available, I would make up a dummy block to the biggest dimension and use it as a gage or use inside mics, you just have to be sure to keep the alignments right. I scraped mine, which as a side benefit added some areas to let the lube hang.


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## Weldo (Jan 1, 2021)

I ended up finding and buying a yoke and block on eBay for around $45.  If the new parts are better than my old ones I can just do a swap, otherwise this will give me the luxury of using the shaper to make and fit a block for the new yoke, then I can do a simple swap.  It's worth the $45 to simplify this whole process.  Once the parts are made and fit to each other I can do the swap in an afternoon instead of spacing it out over several days/weeks.


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## Weldo (Jan 1, 2021)

frugalguido said:


> Depending on the equipment available, I would make up a dummy block to the biggest dimension and use it as a gage or use inside mics, you just have to be sure to keep the alignments right. I scraped mine, which as a side benefit added some areas to let the lube hang.



The dummy block sounds like a good option.  But would it _have_ to be a dummy?  Could I just make the final finished block to the largest size and scrape, file, stone the yoke to fit?


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## frugalguido (Jan 1, 2021)

Weldo said:


> I ended up finding and buying a yoke and block on eBay for around $45.  If the new parts are better than my old ones I can just do a swap, otherwise this will give me the luxury of using the shaper to make and fit a block for the new yoke, then I can do a simple swap.  It's worth the $45 to simplify this whole process.  Once the parts are made and fit to each other I can do the swap in an afternoon instead of spacing it out over several days/weeks.


Good news and more options!


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## frugalguido (Jan 1, 2021)

Weldo said:


> The dummy block sounds like a good option.  But would it _have_ to be a dummy?  Could I just make the final finished block to the largest size and scrape, file, stone the yoke to fit?


You could, but what happens if you goof and make the yoke too big  or you have to make the yoke bigger to correct the alignments? Once you get the yoke right then make the block to fit the yoke.


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## Weldo (Jan 1, 2021)

Yea, that sounds more logical.  A gauge block could be whipped out on the shaper without too much effort.

so lemme ask you this.  If it comes down to just needing to remove a very small amount from the yoke, like just a couple thousandths, I know the benefits of scraping, but can it be easily picked up by an amateur?  What kind of equipment investment is there?

I wouldn’t mind learning this skill as I know it can be used in many places around the shop.


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## frugalguido (Jan 2, 2021)

I think so, there is a lot of info on it out there, i would highly recommend a carbide scraper though, I made mine, less sharping during use. The good news is that you are doing a really small area.


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## Weldo (Jan 3, 2021)

Can I ask you guys what size belts you’re running on your machines?  I’m having a hard time getting smooth clutch engagement.

I was running 1/2” link belts for both but the step pulley belt was rubbing the motor.  Calculations said I needed a 31.25” belt for the step pulleys so I got a 4L315 regular v belt.  It doesn’t rub the motor anymore but when I engage the lever the motor belt was slipping on the motor pulley.

So I take another link out of the motor belt to shrink it.  Now it runs like it should but the clutch is very grabby.  Even when disengaged the motor belt has enough grab to turn the counter shaft.

The part number in the manual for the motor belt is L3 - 126.  Does that indicate that the belts should be 3/8”?  3L?


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## frugalguido (Jan 4, 2021)

I'll check the sizes, I think part of the problem is your type of belt, you need regular belts.


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## Weldo (Jan 31, 2021)

Hey, @frugalguido. I'm looking into buying a chunk of material for a new sliding block.  If I recall, you used brass?  Would bronze be a good choice?

There's some nice pieces on eBay right now.


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## ErichKeane (Jan 31, 2021)

IMO bronze would be a better bet. I think you can still find the oil impregnated bronze in bar stock, but it is a little tougher to find.


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## benmychree (Jan 31, 2021)

Brass is a very poor bearing material, bronze would be better, but cast iron would be better yet.


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## Technical Ted (Feb 1, 2021)

Aluminum bronze can be a bear to machine....

Ted


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## frugalguido (Feb 1, 2021)

I used aluminum bronze for the block, Atlas used "super-oilite", which it seems to be close if not the same, most of the super oilite that I found was round stock though. When I found a small piece of flat stock I purchased that to use.









						What is Super Oilite Bearing Material? | PM Distributors Pty Ltd
					

Distinguished by numerous metallurgically superior features, Super Oilite is a premium bearing type. The material again employs powder metallurgy science, but this time it's an array of proprietary manufacturing methods that earn this self-lubricating material a place of prominence inside the...




					pmdistributors.com.au


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## Technical Ted (Feb 1, 2021)

frugalguido said:


> I used aluminum bronze for the block, Atlas used "super-oilite", which it seems to be close if not the same, most of the super oilite that I found was round stock though.


Are you suggesting that aluminum bronze and oilite bronze are the same?

Sorry, I'd have to say they are totally different. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean...

Ted


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## Weldo (Feb 2, 2021)

Cast iron may be the longest wearing but ideally the block would be softer than the yoke it rides in.  When the machine has some wear evident, it's relatively easy to make a new, slightly larger block, but having to re-true the yoke would be a pain.  That's where I'm at now, gotta re true the yoke a small amount.


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## GK1918 (Feb 21, 2021)

Just my thoughts I really do not like the grease cups rather have zerks there.  I wouldn't lose sleep over the grease I'd just use light oil which should thin or break down the grease on its ways etc.  I  prefer drip glass site oilers they rule.  As I run my machine I squirt oil as it runs on its ram ways just a habit.  And I also give the bull gears a squirt of #90 gear oil as its running 'carefully' and it runs as quiet as a cat....


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## Weldo (Feb 25, 2021)

So, does anyone know the proper belt sizes for the shaper?  I have 1/2" belts on it now but they ride kind of high in the pulley and the clutch isn't very smooth to engage/disengage.  Should they be 3/8" belts?


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## frugalguido (Feb 26, 2021)

I keep forgetting to check my belts for you to see if there is any marking left on them or to see if I can find the invoice when I purchased them. They are ½" belts I think.


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## Weldo (Feb 26, 2021)

Thanks.  Maybe they just need to wear a little.  I got better clutch feel with a link belt, but it slightly rubbed the motor in an annoying way when actuating the clutch lever.


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## Weldo (Mar 6, 2021)

Hey I’m finally getting ready to make a new sliding block.  If anyone else needs some aluminum bronze for anything, check out his eBay seller, they’ve got lots of small pieces and drops.






						Security Measure
					






					www.ebay.com


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## frugalguido (Mar 24, 2021)

Finally remembered to check the belts, marking are still there, they are Goodyear brand, sizes are 4L-290 motor side and 4L-320 speed adjustment side


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## Weldo (Mar 24, 2021)

Thank you very much for checking!  Now I've got to remember to check mine!


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## Kevclar (May 14, 2021)

Weldo said:


> Thank you very much for checking!  Now I've got to remember to check mine!


Weldo, Thank you so very much for posting the rebuild as well as this thread. I'm just getting started on my rebuild, but I have already referred to your photos many, many times. I really appreciate it.


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## Weldo (May 15, 2021)

No sweat, man!  I'm happy to add to the pool of knowledge.  The photos also helped me put it back together after the tear down!


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## Weldo (Oct 9, 2021)

Hey all!  I was wondering if someone could post up a picture of the graduated dial on the table cross feed of their Atlas shaper.  I have a feeling that mine is not correct.  On my machine the feed dial is an extremely loose fit to the shaft, like the dial's ID is oversized by about 0.020"

Is this what it's supposed to look like?


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## frugalguido (Oct 12, 2021)

If you can give me a day or so I will get a picture. From memory I don't think the one you show is correct.


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## frugalguido (Oct 17, 2021)

Here you go, don't mind that knurled knob, I added that. It appears to be the same as the one on the stock down slide.


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## Weldo (Oct 18, 2021)

Hey, sorry for the late reply!  Thanks for the picture.  I'll look around ebay for one maybe.


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## frugalguido (Oct 18, 2021)

I think I might have one, since I replaced the downslide with my bigger home made one. If you want I can check .


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## Weldo (Oct 23, 2021)

Hey man, sorry for the late reply, been busy this week!

Yea, that would be really cool if you had one!  Let me know what you want for it, I've no problem sending you some money for it!


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## frugalguido (Oct 23, 2021)

I'll do some searching, give me some time though.


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## Weldo (Oct 30, 2021)

No problem.  I appreciate it!


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## frugalguido (Dec 3, 2021)

Ok found it! Measures 1" on the outside and .5" bore, here's a picture.


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## Weldo (Dec 4, 2021)

Yea, that looks like it!

The measurements check out on my machine.


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## Weldo (Dec 4, 2021)

Lemme ask a question while I’m here.

I just did a small shaper project.  I put some flat spots on a couple of shaft collars.  It went well but after running a bit I noticed the sideways feed on the table would occasionally stop ratcheting.

Instead I observed the graduated feed dial going back and forth with the ratchet housing.  I ended up having to keep some pressure on the square drive of the feed screw with my fingers to get the ratchet to work properly.

I’m guessing this means I just have to tighten up the preload on the feed screw?  Like the table is simply moving too freely to hold against the return stroke of the ratchet?


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## C-Bag (Dec 4, 2021)

Weldo said:


> Lemme ask a question while I’m here.
> 
> I just did a small shaper project.  I put some flat spots on a couple of shaft collars.  It went well but after running a bit I noticed the sideways feed on the table would occasionally stop ratcheting.
> 
> ...


I ran into that and found the table gibs too loose. Tightened up just a tweak and no problem since.


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## Weldo (Dec 4, 2021)

Thanks!  I’ll look into it!


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