# Argon Tank Sizing



## AxeMaker

Hi,

I am looking for a stick machine that I can TIG weld with.  After buying the machine I will need to get a Argon tank.  What size tank is generally used for home/hobby welders?  How much gas is expended during X amount of welding time?


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## Ulma Doctor

you may experience 15 to 25 CFH dependent on material welded
i have a 40cf ([75/25] argon/CO2), a 122cf (argon) and a 250cf ([Tri-Mix]Argon/CO2/He) tanks in my shop
depending on how much you weld, you may be able to get away with smaller tanks like the 40cf- 
but you can go thru them in a couple hours of intense welding.
i go thru a bit of tri-mix, hence the 250cf bottle- i get it filled once a year-
usually in the summer for some reason, is when it seems to run out.


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## tomh

I think around 200cf +- will be the best to get. Its a big and heavy bottle but you will be a lot happier with  it in the long run, as  You will go through a lot of gas getting started.


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## dlane

I bought my tanks 4 total  ,actually called lifetime lease,  a looong time ago 20 +yrs ago  in TX. the receipt got lost along time ago, and tanks got mixed with lease ones I think in AR.
All I can say is when you exchange them make sure the new ones don't have the company name on the ring under the valve, those are lease tanks in CA. the ring shouldn't have anything on lifetime lease tanks , could be a state thing TX. AR. Doesn't matter , 
When I moved to CA. I had to buy three of them again . 
My tig seems to use a lot of argon I got a 300 cf for it .
75/25 , oxy/acy are 120cf 
Mike what is the tri mix used for ?.


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## FOMOGO

dlane said:


> actually called lifetime lease



  Guess I've been around a lifetime. Same deal when I bought oxy/act tanks 30yrs ago. Now I'm good for another lifetime.lol. Get the biggest one you have room for, and I would be inclined to buy outright if possible, only hurts once. All my other tanks came with used machines I purchased. If it's like around here, some will fill anybody's tank, some not so much. I use the former for any tanks of dubious origins.   Mike


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## roadie33

I bought the AHP Alpha 200x AC/DC Tig/Stick welder this summer and really like it. It got good reviews with Jody and Mr. Tig. For a 150 amp AC/DC Tig it can't be beat.
I bought my Argon tank for the Tig and another Ar/Co2 mix for my wire feed. Both are 200cf and cost $175 each. Plus whatever gas goes for in your area.
So far I have not used much Argon, since I haven't done much Aluminum welding.
Mostly used up Ar/Co2 welding steel. still have over half a tank.
At 15 to 20 cfh it lasts quite a while so long you don't have any leaks.

Make sure when you get your bottle of pure Argon, you make sure that is exactly what it is.
Found out the hard way you cannot weld Aluminum with Ar/Co2 mix.


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## Subwayrocket

Get the largest tank you are able to transport back and forth to the LWS . TIG uses alot of gas, I cant tell you X hours = X CF of argon  . A 120/140 CF will run out very fast, especially while learning... but they are good to have one around as a spare (you WILL run out when the LWS is closed) . I run a 300 CF but it is a beast to move around if you're older . How far are you from the LWS ? If you get chummy with them they will often deliver to your house . The guy here comes to my house and swaps tanks for $10 extra, cant beat that. So, if you can swing it, buy a 300 CF...you wont regret it . If that's to heavy get a 200 . And you want straight Argon for TIG , not Ar/Co2 . Many of the TIG machines out there will do stick . I have an Everlast 250EX , alot of people have this model and are happy with it, you're pretty much covered for a home shop . . Oleg is pretty good with product support too . 
Lastly, do you have a buddy with a TIG ? If so, see if you can get some seat time to try it.   Not to discourage you but there is a fairly steep learning curve with TIG , very much like learning a musical instrument. You can buy one, but you've gotta put in the seat time. It takes about 6 mos to a year to get halfway decent with it. 
Good luck !


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## AxeMaker

roadie33 said:


> I bought the AHP Alpha 200x AC/DC Tig/Stick welder this summer and really like it. It got good reviews with Jody and Mr. Tig. For a 150 amp AC/DC Tig it can't be beat.
> I bought my Argon tank for the Tig and another Ar/Co2 mix for my wire feed. Both are 200cf and cost $175 each. Plus whatever gas goes for in your area.
> So far I have not used much Argon, since I haven't done much Aluminum welding.
> Mostly used up Ar/Co2 welding steel. still have over half a tank.
> At 15 to 20 cfh it lasts quite a while so long you don't have any leaks.
> 
> Make sure when you get your bottle of pure Argon, you make sure that is exactly what it is.
> Found out the hard way you cannot weld Aluminum with Ar/Co2 mix.




Mike,

Were you tanks purchased locally or ordered?  I have not seen tank prices that low in the metro Atlanta area (yet).  But admittedly I have not done a very diligent search.

Everyone,

Thanks for the advice and info.  I will look for at least a #4 255cf tank. +1 on the pure argon.
Can you weld steel etc... with pure argon or will I need two tanks?

I have been looking at the EVERLAST PowerARC 200ST 200amp which is $350.00 Free Shipping on Amazon or...  If I buy it from HomeDepot for $360 I can buy their 3 year warranty for $60.00 more.

Another model at Home Depot I was looking at is the Everlast Poweri-TIG 200 TIG / Stick Welder @ $664.99.

AMAZON has it $100 cheaper.


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## Cheeseking

I bought an 80 CF (Q) size bottle for my little inverter tig welder.
It is sufficient for maybe 3-4 hrs weld time +/-.   I guess it depends how much welding you plan to do.  For me the 80 is a managable size to haul down into the shop approx 7" dia x36" tall and has lasted me anywhere frim 6 months to 2yrs.  Again all depends how high you have the gas flow set, how often you start/stop (post flow uses gas)
I only use mine here and there to glue small stuff together or make repairs.   Btw Yes I have a bungee cord around the tank holding onto the cart.



Forgot to mention- I have an Airgas location 15min from my house.  They take visa over the counter without setting up an account.  I'm sure the price I pay for exchange is outrageous but fortunately for low volume use the convenience is worth it.  Last time it was $65.  I traded in a 20CF harbor freight cylinder I originally had plus cash to go to the 80 size.


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## Subwayrocket

You can do alot with that little machine. I dont know what torch they'll give you but a CK17 flex head or a CK26 are nice torches . People complain that the 26 is too clunky but it's not too bad . The CK26 is not that much bigger than a 17 , and you can go a little longer before your fingers start roasting. Over here I pay $75 for a 300CF Argon refill at the LWS . I also have an Airgas about 10 mins away but the small shops usually are better . Good luck with whatever your get . 
~Steve


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## AxeMaker

There is a AirGas about 8 miles from me and there are a few others down around Norcross, GA. ( 18mi)  I tried to get a log in account on the AirGas web site and they wanted me to fill out a credit app and all that crap just to be able to log in.

Here is that welder in a review;


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## Ulma Doctor

dlane said:


> Mike what is the tri mix used for ?.


Hi Derrick,
Tri Mix is used for mig/tig welding Stainless steel with stainless wire


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## Ulma Doctor

looks like a nice welder!


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## Subwayrocket

You're not far from Jody of weldingtipsandtricks    . 
He's a very good teacher, check out his channel.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqq70AnPkj4-UApS_m_6mPw

This one video of his pretty much sums it up for learning TIG . 
If you haven't seen this one, watch it...and bookmark it 
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## AxeMaker

Subwayrocket said:


> You're not far from Jody of weldingtipsandtricks    .
> He's a very good teacher, check out his channel.
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqq70AnPkj4-UApS_m_6mPw
> 
> This one video of his pretty much sums it up for learning TIG .
> If you haven't seen this one, watch it...and bookmark it
> ---------------------------------------------------------




Who is close to him?


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## Subwayrocket

I think you are AxeMaker .


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## roadie33

I bought mine local in Kansas City. 
For steel you want Ar/Co2 mix. Aluminum Pure Argon for most applications. Add Helium mix for deeper penetration.
For most of us that "hobby Weld", Pure Argon for Aluminum is plenty good.


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## AxeMaker

Subwayrocket said:


> I think you are AxeMaker .



I noticed on his about page he said he used to work for Delta.  Do you know where around ATL he lives?  Buford is about 50 miles N - NE of ATL off of I-85


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## AxeMaker

After doing a little more reading I found out the 201 is the replacement for the 200...

EVERLAST POWER I-TIG 201


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## Subwayrocket

AxeMaker said:


> I noticed on his about page he said he used to work for Delta.  Do you know where around ATL he lives?  Buford is about 50 miles N - NE of ATL off of I-85


Check in to his forum , weldingtipsandtricks . Nice people over there . If you buy anything from his store (weldmonger.com) you can call him and place the order . idk exactly where in Atlanta . 
He's got a few good video's on torches , pedals and accessories for your machine . 
Good luck with whatever you get !


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## AxeMaker

I had been watching his videos earlier in the day yesterday.  

Thanks for the info!


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## DSaul

Both of the welders you listed are DC only machines and will not weld aluminum.  Of the two, I would go for the Power I-tig mainly for the High Frequency start(although the specs don't list it).  The cheaper machine is a lift start, which will be a pain to use and learn with.  

I have the AHP Alphatig 200x and have been happy with the performance of the machine. 

Pure Argon is fine for welding steel.  Its the only gas I use, because it works for everything I weld.


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## tomh

If you have any experience with  *oxy*-*acetylene * you will have no problem using a tig. The basic process is the same, get the puddle started and feed the rod as you  go .


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## AxeMaker

DSaul said:


> Both of the welders you listed are DC only machines and will not weld aluminum.  Of the two, I would go for the Power I-tig mainly for the High Frequency start(although the specs don't list it).  The cheaper machine is a lift start, which will be a pain to use and learn with.
> 
> I have the AHP Alphatig 200x and have been happy with the performance of the machine.
> 
> Pure Argon is fine for welding steel.  Its the only gas I use, because it works for everything I weld.




Hi DSaul,

According to Mr. Tig it is possible to weld aluminum with a DC machine using DC Positive, oversize tungsten, and 100% Argon.

Yes I like the idea of having the features.  I will probably never outgrow that welder with alll of its features...


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## AxeMaker

tomh said:


> If you have any experience with  *oxy*-*acetylene * you will have no problem using a tig. The basic process is the same, get the puddle started and feed the rod as you  go .



I have Oxy/A and good ole ARC welding experience, albeit a long time ago.  I will definitely need to practice a lot.


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## melsdad

I got a 300cf tank when I got my welder in January.  I have done a good bit of welding since and have not had to get it filled yet. .
	

		
			
		

		
	




sent from my campfire with smoke signals


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## Subwayrocket

If there's any chance you think you'll do Alum better get the 250 EX . Alum uses alotta power . Helium is VERY expensive, most home shop Alum is with AC and straight Argon . And TIG on steel uses straight Argon too , not mig mix Ar/CO2 as mentioned previously. You should do some more reading before buying, take your time, u don't wana get something then find you've gotta upgrade 6 mos down the line. 
As far as the welders, alot of guys use Everlast and are happy... if u can afford a Miller get that. If not, an Everlast is a good machine.


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## roadie33

It might be just the type of machine I have, AHP Alpha TIG 200x, but I tried straight Argon on steel and Ar/Co2 mix and found the mix welded better with good penetration. 
Also the  Co2 mix is $21 cheaper than straight Argon in my area. Since I MIG weld, I have both types of shielding gas, and use more of the Mix.


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## AxeMaker

melsdad said:


> I got a 300cf tank when I got my welder in January.  I have done a good bit of welding since and have not had to get it filled yet. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sent from my campfire with smoke signals




melsdad,

How do you like your Everlast?  I am looking at their welders now an just got approved on their web site.  They have a $1000 minimum for the loan so I guess I will be upgrading to something a little more than what I had in mind LOL...

Now I am looking at their POWERTIG 200DV. 
I spoke to one of the sales persons and got them to switch out the torch from the #26 to the #17.
The premium startup pack and the EV-POWERPEDAL 50DL- DELUXE FOOT PEDAL are also included.

$1,300.00 shipped


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## melsdad

AxeMaker said:


> melsdad,
> 
> How do you like your Everlast?  I am looking at their welders now an just got approved on their web site.  They have a $1000 minimum for the loan so I guess I will be upgrading to something a little more than what I had in mind LOL...
> 
> Now I am looking at their POWERTIG 200DV.
> I spoke to one of the sales persons and got them to switch out the torch from the #26 to the #17.
> The premium startup pack and the EV-POWERPEDAL 50DL- DELUXE FOOT PEDAL are also included.
> 
> $1,300.00 shipped


I bought the 250EXT with the water cooler..obviously.  I upgraded to the ck 20 flex head torch with 25' cables/hoses and also upgraded to the SSC foot pedal. 

sent from my campfire with smoke signals


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## melsdad

melsdad said:


> I bought the 250EXT with the water cooler..obviously.  I upgraded to the ck 20 flex head torch with 25' cables/hoses and also upgraded to the SSC foot pedal. So far the machine has been great. Next month will be a year since I owned it. I have learned to TIG weld on this machine and am very pleased with it! I only regret not buying a plasma cutter when I did my financing.
> 
> sent from my campfire with smoke signals





sent from my campfire with smoke signals


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## talvare

AxeMaker,

Before you buy, I would encourage you to take a look at this welder : https://www.amazon.com/AHP-AlphaTIG...1481945294&sr=8-1&keywords=ahp+alpha+tig+200x
Several guys here have them and are pleased. I have one as well and a friend of mine also has one and we're both very happy with them. They are a lot of machine for the money and they are AC/DC machines, so you can weld aluminum more easily than trying to do it with DC. They come pretty well equipped with everything you need to start welding, aside from the consumables.

Also, as others here have already said, I would encourage you to get a fairly large Argon tank for two reasons. First is that it gets used up a lot faster than you'd expect and secondly, you really get worked over on the price of gas when refilling those small bottles.

Just some food for thought.

Ted

Also, there are several YouTube reviews on these machines, including one by Mr. Tig on the older model.


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## AxeMaker

talvare said:


> AxeMaker,
> 
> Before you buy, I would encourage you to take a look at this welder : https://www.amazon.com/AHP-AlphaTIG...1481945294&sr=8-1&keywords=ahp+alpha+tig+200x
> Several guys here have them and are pleased. I have one as well and a friend of mine also has one and we're both very happy with them. They are a lot of machine for the money and they are AC/DC machines, so you can weld aluminum more easily than trying to do it with DC. They come pretty well equipped with everything you need to start welding, aside from the consumables.
> 
> Also, as others here have already said, I would encourage you to get a fairly large Argon tank for two reasons. First is that it gets used up a lot faster than you'd expect and secondly, you really get worked over on the price of gas when refilling those small bottles.
> 
> Just some food for thought.
> 
> Ted
> 
> Also, there are several YouTube reviews on these machines, including one by Mr. Tig on the older model.





Yes I had looked at that weld as well.  I passed on it because of the efficiency rating, lack of water cooling, documentation, and warranty.  Plus in order to do a business lease I need to spend at least $1k.

That being said... I just found a Square Wave™ TIG 200 Welder on the Lincoln web site...  They have 10% off which makes it $1,259.00

*So as far as features warranty, support etc... which welder would you all pick... the Everlast PowerTig 200DV or the Square Wave TIG 200 Welder from Lincoln?*


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## Subwayrocket

AxeMaker said:


> That being said... I just found a Square Wave™ TIG 200 Welder on the Lincoln web site...  They have 10% off which makes it $1,259.00
> 
> *So as far as features warranty, support etc... which welder would you all pick... the Everlast PowerTig 200DV or the Square Wave TIG 200 Welder from Lincoln?*



I just talked to Oleg , he gave me good prices on the 250EX and 200DV .  Better than what I paid ...lol  I can't post the price , i'll PM it to you .  You mentioned water cooling ...if u decide to go that route I can give you pics and a part list for the water cooler i built, it's a very simple reservoir design. I've got about $160 in it and i've got well over a hundred hours on it ...One large job involved a few 8 hour days of steady welding at 225 amps , never overheated . Good luck with whatever you get !


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## talvare

AxeMaker said:


> *So as far as features warranty, support etc... which welder would you all pick... the Everlast PowerTig 200DV or the Square Wave TIG 200 Welder from Lincoln?*



I didn't realize that you intend to use this welder commercially. I'm not sure that any of these welders we're talking about here are considered industrial quality machines. I realize you have a budget to consider, but if your intention is to put a lot of hours on a TIG welder, warranty and service may be an important factor. I would also consider water cooling as very important for a TIG machine that will see a lot of use (I don't believe the Lincoln Square Wave TIG 200 has that capability).  I have used and owned many industrial quality machines mostly from Miller and Lincoln and they were all good quality equipment although they really aren't a fair comparison to these small, portable machines.  But, you've got to start somewhere and you can always upgrade in the future if you need to.

Ted


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## Subwayrocket

Any TIG welder can be run with water cooling . It is the torch cable and return hose plumbing that coolant runs thru, independent of the machine . 
Yes, some machines may not have a switched power outlet on back to auto turn on/off a water cooler but you can get around that easy enough, either simple manually or with a relay .


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## talvare

Subwayrocket said:


> Any TIG welder can be run with water cooling . It is the torch cable and return hose plumbing that coolant runs thru, independent of the machine .
> Yes, some machines may not have a switched power outlet on back to auto turn on/off a water cooler but you can get around that easy enough, either simple manually or with a relay .



Yes, you are correct about being able to add water cooling. I was thinking more along the lines of industrial type machines that have internal automatic control for the water cooled torches.

Ted


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## AxeMaker

talvare said:


> I didn't realize that you intend to use this welder commercially. I'm not sure that any of these welders we're talking about here are considered industrial quality machines. I realize you have a budget to consider, but if your intention is to put a lot of hours on a TIG welder, warranty and service may be an important factor. I would also consider water cooling as very important for a TIG machine that will see a lot of use (I don't believe the Lincoln Square Wave TIG 200 has that capability).  I have used and owned many industrial quality machines mostly from Miller and Lincoln and they were all good quality equipment although they really aren't a fair comparison to these small, portable machines.  But, you've got to start somewhere and you can always upgrade in the future if you need to.
> 
> Ted




The company is buying it for very small internal tig jobs from time to time.  I wont be producing anything for sale or services with it.


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## AxeMaker

I have ended up leasing a Everlast PowerTig 250EX.  I might end up throwing in the water cooler too if it doesn't jack up the monthly payment too much.


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## Ironken

Moved below


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## Ironken

AxeMaker said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am looking for a stick machine that I can TIG weld with.  After buying the machine I will need to get a Argon tank.  What size tank is generally used for home/hobby welders?  How much gas is expended during X amount of welding time?



A good TIG power source should be able to stick weld. The finest stick machines that I have used are TIG power sources. The exception to this is that some of the newer inverter power sources don't like some stick electrodes.

I don't want to sound like a dick here.....do not use CO2 or CO2 mixes for GTAW welding. This is incorrect procedure. Some guys will claim it "works" but, if I rolled up 3 cylinders of gas next to a TIG machine and told a perspective employee to pick between Ar, Ar/He or a mix containing CO2 to weld stainless. One of those cylinders would end the interview.

I purchased a slew of cylinders from Craigslist. Be careful to identify COC (customer owned cylinders) from leased cylinders. Figuring approximate arc time including post flow is easy. At 20cfh devide cylinder capacity by 20 equals arc time.

https://www.praxairdirect.com/Indus...em-Information/Cylinder-Size-Information.html

The attachment will help identify size and ownership. Generally 80cf and less, possesion is ownership.


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## GarageGuy

I bought my own cylinders on Craigslist.  I lucked out and got the big 300/330 CF cylinders more or less because that was what was available.  In the Chicago area, Airgas wants $140 for a fill of 100% Argon, but if I go up to Milwaukee, the independent welding supply stores sell the same 330CF for only $60.  At $60 for 330CF, you can do a lot of welding very cheaply.

GG


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## Ironken

GarageGuy said:


> I bought my own cylinders on Craigslist.  I lucked out and got the big 300/330 CF cylinders more or less because that was what was available.  In the Chicago area, Airgas wants $140 for a fill of 100% Argon, but if I go up to Milwaukee, the independent welding supply stores sell the same 330CF for only $60.  At $60 for 330CF, you can do a lot of welding very cheaply.
> 
> GG



Yep, Airgas put the pipe to me on a leased cylinder of C-15. Never again....not the most helpful individuals at the stores around here.


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