# Atlas Refurb and Tooling



## Jamiethesquid

So I have recently acquired a Craftsman 101.21400 / Atlas 618.  And in short order I will have the clean up completed and have the lathe leveled and ready to throw chips.  While googling around for info I ran acrossa basic tooling package from Little Machine Shop and was wondering if anyone has any feedback on it.  I like the fact that the QC tool post is made in the US and is reasonably priced, however the other parts like the turning and boring tools and the tailstock are up unknown manufacture and I don't want to waste my money if they are not up to snuff.  I would rather get the tool post and buy the tooling separately if this is the case.


I also thought that I would start this Thread as a spot to chronicle my refurb of the machine.  Let me know what you think.


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## SG51Buss

Hi, JamieTheSquid.  There's some very well done restoration threads in here, should help.
Is this the tooling package you're considering?

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3514

If so, that's a nice package.  Requires that you cut the MT1 arbor to allow proper ejection, though.  It'll fast-track you into lathe turning, but, I couldn't recommend it at this time.  Jumping into QCTP and insert tooling bypasses the 'art' and agony of bit grinding, where much of the real magic and learning take place.  I've read your intro-bio (impressive), and it looks like you want to learn it all.  As such, I'd recommend mastering the HSS bit 'world' on the lantern post first.  This will add depth to your understanding and help with creative problem-solving.  Of course, this is your choice.

Saw your pic with the box of tooling.  There's an MT1 something in there, maybe a tailstock chuck?

There's an eBayer near you, antfarm200, who offers many Atlas/Craftsman 6" lathe parts and tooling.  Have a look at his MT1 tailstock chuck:

Item: NEW GENUINE MT1 JACOBS 33 TAILSTOCK DRILL CHUCK 4 LATHE 1/2" CAPACITY & KEY

URL: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=390978016693&alt=web 

Alt URL: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-GENUINE...-CHUCK-4-LATHE-1-2-CAPACITY-KEY-/390978016693

If you search "Atlas 618" in eBay, many more items appear.


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## Jamiethesquid

Thanks Steve, I will check out the restoration threads post haste. I was having issues with my work computer and the Search Function. 

I hear you loud and clear when it comes to the tooling. Yes that is the tool set that I meant to link to on the LMS web site. I am actually really looking forward to working with the HSS tools. At school all of the turning tooks that we have used so far are Indexable Carbide, and all of the machines have QCTP's. 

I also purchased a 15" LeBlond Regal from 1940, and it too has a lantern type tool post. I am an avid knife guy and amateur knife maker. I have two 1x42" belt grinders, a disk grinder, a Work Sharp, and numerous stones, files and laps, and an 8" bench grinder. 

I was really hoping that in school we would learn first the art of tool grinding, but the intro to lathe course started off with carbide. I think later in the tool making courses they touch on it a little, but the curriculum is designed to get the guys and gals ready for jobs in today's shops where few machines are running HSS. I really came by that kit from LMS by accident. At avout the same moment that my wife was asking me for the tenth time what I wanted for Christmas. I plan on using HSS for quite a while, especially on my LeBlond as it has a max speed of 500 RPM and the cost of an Aloris post for it is a bit out of my budget.


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## pebbleworm

I've gotten a lot of use out of a set of MT-2 collets for my little Craftsman.


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## Jamiethesquid

pebbleworm said:


> I've gotten a lot of use out of a set of MT-2 collets for my little Craftsman.


Are the MT 2 collets for the spindle? What do you use for a collet drawbar?


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## SG51Buss

Jamiethesquid said:


> ... I am an avid knife guy and amateur knife maker. I have two 1x42" belt grinders, a disk grinder, a Work Sharp, and numerous stones, files and laps, and an 8" bench grinder...



Well, you're obviously cocked-and-loaded, no stranger to a keen edge.  That LMS site has a good repository on lathe learnin', check-out their learning and info center, there's a pdf on bit grinding.  You'll need some bit holders for the lantern post, Xmas hints to wifey may help...


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## Jamiethesquid

Allright, I give up. Maybe it is the hour, or my eyes are going screwey. But where is the search function hiding. I want to find thise resto threads but I can't seem to find the darn search function.


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## Jamiethesquid

SG51Buss said:


> Well, you're obviously cocked-and-loaded, no stranger to a keen edge.  That LMS site has a good repository on lathe learnin', check-out their learning and info center, there's a pdf on bit grinding.  You'll need some bit holders for the lantern post, Xmas hints to wifey may help...


Okay, now I'm confused. I need a bit holder for the lantern tool post? Or does the bit go directly in the post. I guess for the smaller bits that would make sense. I have currently in there a 1/2" bit.


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## SG51Buss

Do the "forum" button, then "browse all forums".  Scroll down to the Atlas/Craftsman specific forum, click on it.  You'll spend the rest of the week in there.

I have an album with a few pics of my machine.  Here's the traditional 1/4" bit tool holders


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## Jamiethesquid

Steve can you recommend a source to buy those tool holders?


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## SG51Buss

Those holders are frequently on eBay.  Here's my album of the Atlas 618 pages from the 1945 Atlas catalog.  Bottom of page 25 shows these holders and their part numbers.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/album.php?albumid=325


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## Jamiethesquid

That is a gem of a catalog. I would love to have one from 1957 that would show the origional accessories for my 101.21400. I looked last night in the box of stuff that came with the lathe and I don't have any bit holders. I may pull the trigger on getting the LMS kit for X-mas, it saus that the tool holders will hold bits from .250" to .500" and additional holders are only $20 something a piece. So that set will give me 2 standard holders, A cutoff holder and a boring bar holder. As I search around the web and locally ober the coming months, I will keep my eyes peeled for tool holders for the Little Atlas and my Leblond. I did see that my leblond had at least 2 holders with it. 

I have so many more questions. I was in my shop until after midnight last night. I disassembled the 3 jaw chuck, and have it soaking in Ed's Red. It was loaded with dried up grease. I removed the cross slide and the compound for cleaning. I removed the spindle so I could clean that. Next I want to remove the lead screw and the carraige. 

All the large parts will be thoroughly scrubbed and degreased this weekend. Smaller parts get a pre-soak in Ed's red, then a dunk in the ultrasonic, and relube.  Castings are going to be treated to a new paint job, brush on enamel of some brand and color yet to be determined. 

I need to find a local source for some proper lubrication. 

Still looking for the proper motor pulley sizes. I am going to replace the worn belts with either o-ring type belts or more likely the link type (thoughts on this would be welcome). 

This weekend my basement shop is getting some much needed cleaning and organizing and I will start building the bench for the lathe. Hopefully by x-mas I will be ready to make some chips. 

I will take lots of pics this weekend.


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## mce5802

You may find that two holders are all you need for your leblond its all i have for my old reed lathe as a lot of times its easier to change toolbits for different operations that way everything stays on center. Obviously you'll still need a parting tool holder. I'm glad I didn't spend a bunch on lantern holders as I've gotten to the point, though I'm still learning, that I'm really wanting an aloris-style holder that'll fit both my lathes. It will speed up lathe operations a LOT. And the old holders will sit in a drawer prbly never touched for years. I plan to keep using mostly high speed even with the new posts.


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## Reeltor

James,

When I bought my Monarch 16" I was hot for a QCTP and got a good deal from CDCO on a wedge type set.  If I was to do it over again, I would have saved my dollars for other tooling.  There are plans for a number of tool bit height setting gauges that are easy to make; I should have made one and kept using the lantern tool holders.  
If you buy some Armstrong or Williams tool bit holders for the lantern post they come in two main flavors.  The ones with the S after the size means that the tool bit hole is straight and is used for carbide tooling (the brazed or glued on type, not inserts) the ones without the S hold the bit at an angle for HSS tooling.
I bookmarked a supplier who has newly manufactured tool holders but can't locate it.  I'll keep looking for the bookmark since I want to get some big honking tool holders for the 16" shaper I found.

Mike

One other problem using the QCTP on the big lathe is that the post itself is a big hunk of square steel.  It makes it hard to get close to the end of the work to thread etc. too much interference with the tailstock live center.


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## shoeboxpaul

Hi,
I have a 6" Atlas/Craftsman and I love it. I have upgraded to the QCTP and what a blessing they are. 
Here is a site that may come in handy for you and others. 

http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/atlas/atlas.html

I want to make the ER collet closer chuck. Nice project and looks doable, even with my skills. 

Also very handy is this link:

http://vintagemachinery.org/

At the menu bar at the top is Machine Info. Move your cursor over it and a drop down menu appears. Click on Publication Reprints and you can search for some original publications for your lathe that people have uploaded. These are pdf. files. 
Almost forgot - once you are on the page Publication Reprints and you click on the brand, if you click on the list headings at the top, it organizes the files by that heading. Pretty cool.
Looking forward to see your progress. 

shoeboxpaul


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## wa5cab

Mike,

There is (at least on most lathes and with most QCTP's) an easy fix for that problem.  Most if not all QCTP's have two mounting faces.  Normally one faces the headstock and is used for turning tools and parting off blades.  The other faces the work and is normally used for facing tools and boring bars.  And which end of each holder you put the cutter in determines whether you can use it for turning or facing.  But if you rotate the QCTP on the compound (or rotate the compound) 90 deg. clockwise, then a tool set up as you normally would for facing and mounted on the right side of the tool post will allow you to work right up against the tailstock.  Actually, if you have a bit of work to do near the tailstock, I would rotate the compound from it's normal position of +30 deg. to -30 deg. and then rotate the tool post another 30 deg.

Robert D.



Reeltor said:


> James,
> 
> One other problem using the QCTP on the big lathe is that the post itself is a big hunk of square steel.  It makes it hard to get close to the end of the work to thread etc. too much interference with the tailstock live center.
> 
> Mike


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## wa5cab

Shoeboxpad (et al),

We also have the majority of all of the available Atlas and Craftsman lathe, mill and shaper manuals in our Downloads section.  Access to downloads currently requires a minimum of 30 posts.  Plus anyone who makes a donation to the site (donation money is all used for site maintenance and support) gets immediate access regardless of post count.  If you have access to Downloads, you will see it listed on the drop-down under For Members.

Robert D.


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## Jamiethesquid

Does anyone posting here have a 101.21400 Craftsman / 618 Atlas?  If so. When I bought the lathe last week for $50 bucks. It was without a motor, not a problem as I have a 1725 RPM 1/4 HP GE donor motor that is an older Vintage and runs beautifully. What I am missing however is the 2 step pulley that goes on the shaft of the motor. I haven't yet found one for sale on Flea Bay. I may take on the job of procuring a commercial replacement or making one on the lathe from Aluminum. What I need is the Outside Diameter of the 2 steps maybe a v-groove depth and width also would be handy. Thanks in advance for any help.


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## mce5802

50 bucks? Did you forget a zero? Why can't I find deals like that? As far as the pulley...in the pics I looked at the large pulley on the motor appears to be same dia. as the small pulley on the countershaft. So...that means u can take the circumference of both those pulleys and subtract the circumference of the larger pulley on the countershaft and that will give you the circumference of the smaller step pulley on the motor. Divide by 3.1416 n that should be your diameter. Did I make any sense? Just make your v-groove depth n width the same as the countershaft pulleys.


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## Reeltor

wa5cab said:


> Mike,
> 
> There is (at least on most lathes and with most QCTP's) an easy fix for that problem.  Most if not all QCTP's have two mounting faces.  Normally one faces the headstock and is used for turning tools and parting off blades.  The other faces the work and is normally used for facing tools and boring bars.  And which end of each holder you put the cutter in determines whether you can use it for turning or facing.  But if you rotate the QCTP on the compound (or rotate the compound) 90 deg. clockwise, then a tool set up as you normally would for facing and mounted on the right side of the tool post will allow you to work right up against the tailstock.  Actually, if you have a bit of work to do near the tailstock, I would rotate the compound from it's normal position of +30 deg. to -30 deg. and then rotate the tool post another 30 deg.
> 
> Robert D.



Robert,

For some reason I've never thought of turning the tool post 90 degrees opposite of how I normally set it.  Thanks for the tip, it certainly will help when turning or threading a long bar.  With the smaller ones, I'll still have interference either from the tailstock or the chuck, but I do have work-arounds.  Thanks again.

The company that is selling the old style lantern holders along with QCTP is Travers Tools,  They do have an import along with some Armstrong product; around $36 each but then again that is what many ebay sellers want that for a well used ones.  This is in reference for use on his 15" Leblond the OP has.

Mike


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## Jamiethesquid

For my 15" Leblond I have 1 if not 2 tool holders. I did in fact buy the Craftsman for Fifty dollars last weekend and I bought the Leblond Regal for $900 2 weeks before that. It is going to stay where it is. Which is only 2 miles away.  I need to get my shop ready to recieve the big old girl.


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## Jamiethesquid

So I Have the lathe broken down for cleaning. I have a bunch of pics to upload to show my progress but the forum keeps telling me that they are too large, so I have downsized them with an app but the only way to get them small enough turns them in to a lo res grainy mess. Any help would be great.


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## SG51Buss

I use 'Pixlr Express' and 'Image Shrink lite' on my android thing...


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## AR1911

Jamie,
   Congrats on the new lathe. I think those 618s are the ideal tabletop lathe, and the only Atlas lathe worth keeping. I have had about 5 of them over the last 10 years. The current one will probably go to my son next month, if he wants it.

  My $.02:  First thing I do when I get an older lathe is sell off the lantern stuff and put a QCTP on it. Much less fussy, more rigid, just works better, whether HSS or carbide. I use both.

   Which reminds me, I have about 80 lantern-style toolholders of all types, in 4 sizes which I was just about to put up for sale. I have every size except the 618, which are a special and unique size. They bring lots of money on ebay when they show up.  
   But if you need some for the leblond, give me the size of the shank or the number of the ones you have, and I'll see what I have to fit.


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## wa5cab

Jamie,

I'm trying to get some answers so that maybe I can answer your and several other members' questions.  In the meantime, my first recommendation would be to get a decent camera and decent software.  I'm partial to the better Nikon's but there are a few other brands that qualify.  So-called smart phones don't qualify.

What are the file sizes of the JPG's you've tried to upload and of those that you say are grainy?

Robert D.


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## JimDawson

As a new(er) member you are limited as to how much you can upload. I don't have access to change your status to allow your up load. But you can email a picture to me an I can post it for you. My email is in my signature below.


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## Jamiethesquid

wa5cab said:


> Jamie,
> 
> I'm trying to get some answers so that maybe I can answer your and several other members' questions.  In the meantime, my first recommendation would be to get a decent camera and decent software.  I'm partial to the better Nikon's but there are a few other brands that qualify.  So-called smart phones don't qualify.
> 
> What are the file sizes of the JPG's you've tried to upload and of those that you say are grainy?
> 
> Robert D.



My iphone takes incredible pictures and it is always in my pocket. My DSLR Nikon digital is 12.5 Mega Pixels. Much too large to post here. I don't have the option to take the pictures in a lower resolution to start off with. Then I down sized them in an app to 480x360 and that was still too large. The next resolution down and they may as well be colored with crayons. I think I may just upload them to a flicker or photobucket account and post the link on here


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## Jamiethesquid

Let's try this for now until I find a better method. Here is a Photo Bucket album with pictures of both lathes and my tool kit I cart back and forth to Community College. 

Please let me know if this works. 

http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah304/Jamiethesquid/Mobile Uploads/image_zps44b32f7c.jpg


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## Jamiethesquid

Currently I am cleaning ip the parts with a bit of 4 aught steel wool and a dab of Ed's Red or Kerosene. The chuck got a bath in my 9 Liter Ultra Sonic before going into the Evapo-Rust (can't say enough good stuff about Evapo rust!). All parts are going to get a thorough degrease with a combination of things then a bake in the oven at 200F then a wipe with Lacquer thinner before. Hammerite Hammered Gloss Black. Thinking of going with the new style linked belts, and bolting the whole shebang to a steel structure that I have pre assembled.


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## Jamiethesquid

Somebody asked me recently for the recipe for Ed's Red gun cleaner. We have been making it for years, it works great and is a modern adaptation of a recipe found in Hatcher's Notebook. It does not specifically remove copper fouling, but does such a good job of removing everything that the copper and lead sticks to in the bore, a quick swab with Sweets 7.62 or JB bore bright is all that is needed.


I make it up by the gallon and soak my pistols in it for long periods with no harm. Google "Ed's Red" and you will find lots of info, but here it is in a nutshell.


1 quart of cheap Automatic Transmission Fluid (gives the distinctive red color, and is essentially hydraulic fluid, leaves a light coating of non-sticky lubrication behind)


1 quart of Mineral Spirits, Alaphatic or Odorless.


1 quart of Kerosene, usually found in the Camping / Sporting goods section of your local box store.


1 quart of Acetone, which is actually optional, it makes the cleaner a bit faster acting, but evaporates quickly and gives it a bit more odor. I have always included it. 


DISCLAIMER: There are all sorts of finishes / materials used on modern firearms, test first to see if this cleaner is compatible with your parts. No cleaner is totally safe on wood, treat your wood good! Gentle cleaner, and a little lemon oil or furniture polish is what I use.


Step 1: Re-read above disclaimer.


Step 2: Buy a small Gallon gas can, Like they sell for Weed Whackers or Chainsaws. Write on it in big letters BORE CLEANER so you don't use it in the above tools.


Step 3: Mix the above ingredients in equal parts.


Step 4: Enjoy a great firearm/ tool/ part/ shop cleaner for about $20 bucks a gallon. 


I bought a 9x13; brownie pan at wally world that came with a plastic cover. I can put a fully disassembled 1911 in the pan, fill her up until all the parts are submerged, and let them soak for a bit. 


After the parts have soaked for a bit I don a pair of nitrile gloves, and fish out the parts, give them a quick wipe down, usually that is all that is needed, maybe a stubborn piece of gunk needs a tooth brush or a q-tip. Any solution left behind will provide a light lubrication and does not get sticky like WD-40 or some others.


After all the parts are out of the solution, I put a funnel in the gas can, throw a paper coffee filter in the funnel and pour it back into the can, it continues to work for a very long time, my current batch has been in use for nearly 2 years. When it gets too dirty for your liking it still works great on car parts, rusted bolts, etc. I wipe down the cast iron tables on my Table saw, Belt/Disc sander and drill press after use with a few drops, works great at removing that pitch / glue that blades and router bits accumulate over time, and keeps them from rusting, also great on hand tools and pliers. 


Has not harmed the paint, on sights or the Fiber Optic inserts after days of soaking, I of course remove the wood grips. I fill a squeeze bottle with the unused, clean solution and keep it in my range bag works great on a patch, or to wipe down a gun after shooting. 


Give it a try! You'll thank me.


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## Jamiethesquid

I was going to totally strip and redo the paint but I figured that circa 1957 paint was a high pribability of being lead based and the Hammerite would hide the blimishes and encapsulate the old paint well.


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## wa5cab

Jamie,

I don't like to run down anyone's equipment so I will only say that I also have an iPhone bought new last year and I wouldn't inflict most of its photos on anyone.

Your Nikon must still be at its original factory settings.  You can program it to make JPG's of around 200 KB which will still look OK at 4x Zoom.  Over the past decade, I have tried half a dozen or so compressors and found none that work very well.  The only thing I have found that works pretty well is software that can directly change the dpi of the uncompressed file independent of the compression algorithm.

Robert D.



Jamiethesquid said:


> My iphone takes incredible pictures and it is always in my pocket. My DSLR Nikon digital is 12.5 Mega Pixels. Much too large to post here. I don't have the option to take the pictures in a lower resolution to start off with. Then I down sized them in an app to 480x360 and that was still too large. The next resolution down and they may as well be colored with crayons. I think I may just upload them to a flicker or photobucket account and post the link on here


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## Jamiethesquid

I will break out the Nikon this weekend and tweak the settings.


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## CoopVA

Thanks for the recipe Jamie!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## middle.road

Try IrFanView. Very good image editor.
Open the Pict, select resize/resample, set the width to 1024, make sure 'Preserve aspect ratio' is Checked,
then resave under a new name. This will give you a pict with a size ~100-200K, perfect for uploading and
it will still have all the detail.

_Dan


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## Jamiethesquid

Thanks Dan. I had used that program years ago on the computer. I will have to give it another try. Really most of this problem comes from trying to use my iPhone. If I was on my PC I would have much more control. But even with a belt and suspenders the Laptop yanks down my britches when I put it in my pocket.

Was anyone able to see the Photo Bucket pics?


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## Jamiethesquid

Am I correct in my measurement that this lathe has a 1"x12tpi spindle?


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## wa5cab

Jamie,

No.  The spindle nose thread on the Atlas 618 and the Craftsman 101.21400 is 1"-10.  The 101.07391 is 1"-8.  The short-lived 101.07300 was 3/4"-16.

Robert D.


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## wa5cab

Jaimie,

If you haven't found this and still want it, the 1957 catalog still shows the 101.07301.  The next Power Tools catalog printed is 1959/60.  It shows the 101.21400 and accessories.

A site with URL of http://www.roseantiquetools.com/ used to have almost all of the Power Tools catalogs from before 1930 to after 1970 but it isn't coming up tonight.  It was being run by the (I think) widow of the original owner.  If you don't have any luck getting it to come up by tomorrow, PM me your email address and I will send you the PDF.

Robert D.



Jamiethesquid said:


> That is a gem of a catalog. I would love to have one from 1957 that would show the origional accessories for my 101.21400.


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## Jamiethesquid

Thanks Robert, so you are saying that my machine is probably a 1959 vintage? I will try to obtain that catalog, if it doesn't work than I would be greatful to have you e-mail me one. I see the fault with my measurements of the threads. You'll have to pardon my ignorance, next semester is my threading on the lathe class. I obviously don't have 1" of clear thread in the spindle nose. So I took my digital caliper opened the jaws .500" and counted that one jaw was exactly on the peak of one thread and the other jaw was on the peak of the 6th thread. But the first thread would actually be thread zero. When I took my 5R graduated 6" rule I saw my error the threads were falling exactly on the 10ths. Thus as you said 10tpi.  That gives me more options for chucks. I would like to find a 4 jaw when I have some spending money.


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## Jamiethesquid

wa5cab said:


> Jaimie,
> 
> If you haven't found this and still want it, the 1957 catalog still shows the 101.07301.  The next Power Tools catalog printed is 1959/60.  It shows the 101.21400 and accessories.
> 
> A site with URL of http://www.roseantiquetools.com/ used to have almost all of the Power Tools catalogs from before 1930 to after 1970 but it isn't coming up tonight.  It was being run by the (I think) widow of the original owner.  If you don't have any luck getting it to come up by tomorrow, PM me your email address and I will send you the PDF.
> 
> Robert D.



Robert it does appear that the site is down. 

Happy Thanksgiving tomorrow everyone!!


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## SG51Buss

Jamie, this may interest you.  Piston type qctp with 2 extra holders on special sale:

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/weekly_special.php


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## wa5cab

Jamie,

No.  I have no idea when your machine was made.  AFAIK, you never posted the serial number.  The 101.21400 was sold from late 1957 through late 1972.  I was just telling you that it did not appear in the Power Tools catalog dated 1957.  And that the next Power Tools catalog printed was the one ID'd as 1959/60.  The lathe did appear in the Fall 1957 Big Book.  So that dates its beginning.

You need to understand some of the in's and out's of catalog dating.  Generally, the catalogs for a single year were printed between June and September of the previous year and were typically being distributed before Christmas of the print year.  So the 1957 Power Tools catalog would have come out in late 1956.  The dual year marked ones were usually printed in the late Winter or Spring and were out around June of the earlier of the two years that they were marked for.  So at the time that the 1957 catalog was printed , the 101.07301 was still the current 6" model.  Why Sears didn't publish a 1958 Power Tools catalog, probably no one knows.  

If you can post the serial number, I'll give you a rough idea of when it was made.

Robert D.


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## Jamiethesquid

Sorry Robert, I posted in the other thread about Craftsman Build dates the serial number is 000450.  Thanks again for all the great info!  I am Learning so much.  The model number on the 3 jaw chuck is 101.21407 does that mean it came off a different model machine?


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## wa5cab

Jamie,

OK.  Don't know how I missed putting your machine into the database.  Especially as that is the lowest serial number I've seen.  Assuming for lack of any better information that serial number 00001 was made 10/01/1957, yours was probably made between then and Christmas 1957.

On the 3-jaw chuck, no.  The chuck was not included in 101.21400.  You had to buy it separately.  And for that matter, the few accessories that did come with the machine (like the 1MT dead center) also had Sears part numbers because Sears also sold them separately.  The exception to this rule is that for repair parts of any end use item (like the lathe or the chuck), Sears used the Atlas part numbers.

Robert D.


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## Jamiethesquid

Robert, thanks for the catalogs. I was just looking a the 1957 catalog and the 99 D M2140 on page 1440 appears to be the exact lathe that I have. Does that jive with what you were thinking. It has the same model number in the 1959 catalog.


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## wa5cab

Yes.  They are the same model, 101.21400.  At some point after the end of WW-II, Sears catalog and model numbering procedures changed.  The first examples that I know of are in the 1951 Power Tools catalogs but I don't know that they didn't make the change earlier.  It just happens that the first new Atlas lathe models to appear since before WW-II appeared in 1951 with the 101.27430 and 101.27440.  The first four of the five-digit model number are the same as the four digits on the end of the catalog number.  -27430 crosses to -2743, -27440 to -2744 and -21400 to -2140.  This was not true with the earlier 6" and 12" models.  The catalog numbers prior to 1951 give no clue as to what the model numbers are.  This cost me a lot of time figuring out the intro year of the twelve early 12" lathes.  For example, the 101.07403 12", built from 1940 to 1957, has catalog numbers ending in -2073, -2075, -2077 and -2079, depending upon bed length.

I sent you the 6" lathe page out of the Fall, 1957 Big Book because it shows the first appearance in any Sears catalog of the 101.21400 6" lathe.  And is how I am able to say without too much fear of being wrong that your machine was probably built at the end of 1957.

Robert D.


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## Jamiethesquid

Tonight I treated the two bases of the lathe to a hot soapy bath in the sink with some Blue Dawn and a green scotch brite. This was just to remove the initial layers of dust and grease in preparation for prep and painting. Around the edges where the pain was chipped and there was already some surface rust the paint started to peel further. I rinsed and dried them and went back down to my shop. A gentle scrape with a scraper and paint was flying off the castings. So I decided to slather them with soy stripper and go have dinner. 

After dinner I scraped most of the loosened paint with a West Systems epoxy speader plastic popsicle stick thing and then returned to the sink for another hot rinse and scrub with a small stainless brush. 5 minutes later they were bare castings. I promptly put them in my Evapo rust bath to neutralize any surface rust and prevent flash rust until I can prime them on tuesday with an etching primer. 

So It appears that contrary to my earlier statement, I will be stripping all of the castings before painting. My only concern with that is the already partially obliterated Timken decal and removing the label plates and emblems. Does anyone have a good graphic or picture of the timken badge. I could recreate and put back on. As far as the Label plates and gear chart, any advice on removal and replacement. I have removed them in the past on other projects and I usually ground off the rivet heads with a dremel and then drilled and tapped small screws. But I am open to any and all suggestions. I will get the required software loaded on the computer tuesday and upload some new pictures. 

Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Looking for a source of SAE 10 oil and the various cutting / tapping fluids that I will need for running my lathes once I am set up. Any recommendations for a good source where I can buy in small quantities and not have to purchase by the gallon or the case. Thanks


----------



## wa5cab

Jamie,

When Atlas didn't use slotted pan head self tapping screw to attach various plates (as on the QCGB's), they usually used round head drive screws.  The holes are usually drilled through.  Look at the back side of where the plates are mounted for holes.  If you find them, drive the screws out with an appropriate size pin punch.  The screws are reusable, so don't blast them into LEO.

On the Timken decal, I have two.  One has the words "tapered roller" to left ("tapered") and right ("roller") of the drawing of the bearing.  The other one does not.  They are about 2.45" wide.  When I got them some years back, I only had a B&W printer and saved and forgot them until your post prompted a dim memory.  Our current machine is a Xerox 7855 and does color.  And somewhere I have some decal sheets (if I can find them).  If you aren't already set up to print decals, I might be.

Robert D.


----------



## AR1911

Or...How about this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sty...Parts_Accessories&hash=item5b089e9c1c&vxp=mtr


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Once again you are the Best!! Robert I am going to attempt to upload of what is currently on the machine. What are you thoughts on Lubrication and Fluid sources?


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Here are some more pics


----------



## Jamiethesquid

And some more


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Any advice on removing the back gear shaft?


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Robert that Decal will work perfect. When you or I make some up we should make up a whole sheet and send them to who ever needs them for the price of postage. So I was digging through Enco's site. (I really wish they would hurry up and send me a catalog. As far as cutting and tapping fluids, looks like there is a lot to choose from. My question is more about the correct lube for the machine's oilers. I was looking at the Mobil DTE Heavy Medium as an all round lube for the spindle, gears and ways. Is this an acceptable option. The smallest quantity is I gallon but that should get me down the road a bit with the Craftsman and the Leblond


----------



## wa5cab

Jamie,

I just sent you the JPG of the Timken logo with Tapered Roller.  

Sometime after 1956, Atlas changed the oil viscosity recommendation for all machines from SAE 10 to SAE 20.  The Mobil DTE Heavy Medium @ ISO 65.1 is equivalent.  And is what I've been using for the past three or four years.  I use it everywhere except on gear teeth (where I am still using a can of Lubriplate from the last Century) and the ways, where I use Way Oil, mainly because one of the eBay sellers who sell felt oilers had one ad where they bundled four with a small squeeze bottle of Way Oil.  Both the oil and the squeeze bottle seem to work well.

On cutting oil, I wouldn't know where to start.  There are too many variables.  It depends upon what you are cutting, what you are cutting it with, ambient temperature, phases of the moon. national debt, and probably a bzillion other factors.  Fortunately, there aren't too many cases where what you use can make matters worse.

Robert D.


----------



## wa5cab

I don't know for certain.  But looking at the exploded view headstock parts drawing, it looks like it probably comes out the left side of the headstock with the left eccentric remaining in place on the shaft.  I presume that there are set screws in the right eccentric and the two collars.  For a first try, I would oil the back gear bushings and make certain that the spins freely.  Then loosen or remove the set screws, remove the right eccentric with lever and knob, and push the shaft out the left side of the headstock, leaving behind the collars, fiber washer(s) and gear.  When you get it out, tell us whether there was one or two fiber washers.

Robert D.



Jamiethesquid said:


> Any advice on removing the back gear shaft?


----------



## Jamiethesquid

I am going to attempt to get it apart tonight, along with disassembling the tailstock.  I will take some pictures.


----------



## Jamiethesquid

A little birdy told me that Santa Clause is bringing me one of these. What do you think. I have decided to go old school and learn the Lantern Post.


----------



## Reeltor

NOS is nice to have and sometimes original tooling is of better quality than what is coming from china.

If you want to add to your supply of holders you can look at Enco as well as others.  It is almost impossible to get this to come up using Enco's search function.




Wholesale Tool has them for about half what Enco wants, one link is for carbide tool bits (zero back rake)

and the other link is for use with HSS / colbolt bits holder with positive rake (I thought it was negative rake, but they say positive in the ad.???)
http://www.wttool.com/index/page/category/category_id/16552/


http://www.wttool.com/index/page/category/category_id/16553/

I hope this helps,

Mike


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Mike, thanks for the info. Here is a follow up question. The width of the slot in the tool post where the tool holder goes is .400 wide, does this mean that I would order the .375 or 3/8" wide tool holder and have a little wiggle room or would I stick a couple of feeler guage shims along side to tool holder. Does this play cause any problems?


----------



## SG51Buss

You'll want 3/8" x 3/4" shank toolholders.  7/8" tall should fit, but 1" tall may be pushing it.
And, no, you don't shim the sides.

That Right-hand toolholder in the eBay ad is what works for facing cuts.
You'll need the other Left-hand toolholder for radius turning.
Those toolholders in the Wholesale Tools link sure look promising.
As far as bit size, 3/16" has been a little more difficult (for me anyway) to find versus the more common 1/4"...


----------



## Reeltor

Jamiethesquid said:


> Mike, thanks for the info. Here is a follow up question. The width of the slot in the tool post where the tool holder goes is .400 wide, does this mean that I would order the .375 or 3/8" wide tool holder and have a little wiggle room or would I stick a couple of feeler guage shims along side to tool holder. Does this play cause any problems?



Jamie,

I have 3 lantern (Rocker type) tool holders, the smallest has a width opening for the tool holder of 11/16".  So it takes the next larger tool holder with the 3/8" tool bits.  To use your current tool post you need the smallest tool holder.  Wholesale tool also sells the tool posts ($29-$39) but I'd go with the smaller post and holders for your 6" Atlas.  
No, you do not shim the sides of the holder to post and you won't have any problems with the little "wiggle" room.
When set, you'd be surprised at how rigid a setup you will get.  The tool holder/bit isn't going anywhere.  Just set your tool bit to Center Line of the work (not above center line or you can dig in and have bad results).

What size tool post do you have on the big lathe?  Do you have the half moon rocker piece that goes between the dished out washer and tool holder?  They tend to get lost.




Mike


----------



## Jamiethesquid

So it took me all this time to figure out that a right hand tool is used to turn from right to left, but you would put this in a left hand holder. How counter intuitive is that?!  Oh well the RH holder will get me started and once the Christmas spending for the kids passes. I will buy a LH and a straight. 

I had a few minutes in the shop last night I removed the back gear from the headstock, and took apart the tailstock and the compound. I took plenty of pictures to keep tack of the little bits. Only thing left to do is the carriage and apron. Then I will degrease everything, strip if necessary, paint and reassemble. I have 2 weeks left of this semester at school. Then during the break between semesters. I hope to get the lathe up and running. Wish me luck. I will post more pics tomorrow. 


Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Found this on lathes.co.uk looks like the motor pulley that i am trying to replace has diameters if 3-3/16" and 1-11/16". This should get me what I need to make a replacement. Now to find some suitable stock. 


Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Jamie


----------



## SG51Buss

Boy, I swear, some of us just can't move as fast as we used to (or remember).  Finally got out there to get pics for you.

My lathe is configured as an underdrive.  Difficult to get to the motor pulley.



To get the motor pulley measurement, I cut an old tape measure and leaned it against the motor output shaft.  Assuming minimal camera parallax, you should be able to derive the pulley dimensions (hopefully).


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Thanks for the measurements that looks  like about what I found. I think machining this out if 2011 should work nicely. 


Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Boy that under drive would work nicely for my space. I am going to have to give that some further thought. How does the belt rout up to the headstock?  Some more pics would be great. 


Jamie


----------



## wa5cab

One thing that it will require is machining the insides of the front and rear ways under the headstock to provide clearance for the spindle belt.  The factory underdrive version has two countershafts.  One fixed and one movable.  The spindle and last countershaft pulleys are about the same diameter as the #2 step on the cone pulleys.

Robert D.


----------



## wa5cab

Jamie,

I meant to comment several days ago on one statement made in the page from lathes.uk.  I do not actually know whether the spindle in the sleeve bearing model 101.07301 is longer than the one in the Timken bearing Atlas 618 or not.  But in any case, the only change to 6" made in late 1957 for the 1958 model year is that Atlas ceased production of the 101.07301 and Sears began selling the 618 under model number 101.21400.  No changes were made to the lathe.  This could be the source of the widely distributed Internet disinformation that the spindle threads on the 618 were originally 1"-8 and changed to 1"-10.  They weren't and they didn't.

Also, I'm going to upload a PDF made from a cleaned up JPG that one owner took of the 2-step motor pulley M6-428 on his 618.  The dimensions are close to what what was shown down this thread.  Dimensions of the "V"'s aren't shown.  Get those out of Machinery's Handbook.


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Thanks again Robert. I just started priming the base castings tonight with a self etching primer in prep for the Hammerite.  
	

		
			
		

		
	








Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

The under drive sounds like a no go. Like I said I have a couple of donor pulleys in that range of size to get me going and I think that the first project this little lathe will build is a correct 2 step pulley for itself.  I am leaning toward steel for extra mass. And I might even have a line on a chunk of naval brass that size. 


Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

I have looked up the correct dimensions in the Machinerys Handbook


Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Here is another question. I have a copy of MOLO copyright 1955. It is in Fair to poor condition. I am going to scan it into PDF so I can always have it at hand in my new iPhone 6 plus. Could I share this in our downloads section or would this be in violation of some dumb law. 


Jamie


----------



## wa5cab

Jamie,

We aren't sure whether scanned copies of the MOLO would violate copyright or not and choose not to find out experimentally.  So don't upload it.

On the other hand, so long as you retain the original, making a backup or working copy for yourself has for many years usually been deemed acceptable.

Robert D.


----------



## Reeltor

Jamiethesquid said:


> Here is another question. I have a copy of MOLO copyright 1955. It is in Fair to poor condition. I am going to scan it into PDF so I can always have it at hand in my new iPhone 6 plus. Could I share this in our downloads section or would this be in violation of some dumb law.
> 
> 
> Jamie



What is MOLO?

Mike


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Manual of Lath Operations


Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Understood, Robert


Jamie


----------



## Reeltor

Jamiethesquid said:


> Manual of Lath Operations
> 
> 
> Jamie



Jamie,

Thanks, Is that a book of general lathe operations or is it written by Atlas specifically for how to use their machines?

Mike


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## Jamiethesquid

It is written by atlas and has a great deal of information that applies to many different lathes. 


Jamie


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## wa5cab

Mike,

Full title is Manual of Lathe Operation and Machinists Tables.

About 2/3 of it is or could be considered generic.  All photos are of Atlas machines and accessories, of course.  Roughly equivalent to the later editions of the South Bend How To Run A Lathe.  All photos in the latter are of SB lathes.  And early editions are heavily into line shaft operated machinery.

The MOLO was reprinted about every one to three years from 1937 to 1988 (you can still buy the 1988 new from Clausing).  Photos in it evolved over the years.  If you have an early vintage machine, you want an early vintage MOLO, and vice versa.  For more details see the brief sticky message near the top of this forum, and two .DOC files in Downloads.

Which brings up another subject.  Stickies at the top of the various fora on this site should be read by everyone at least once. At present in this forum, only the top one on Serial Numbers is open and may change frequently.  Some of them at the top of some fora contain site rules and related matter.  Gibbs Rule #0 is that ignorance of the rules is no excuse.:whistle: 		

Robert D.


----------



## Jamiethesquid

So after all the prep work on the base/leg castings and the fine job of etch priming. I got a little smurfy and decided that I would slap on a coat of hammerite and see what I came out with. Well I will be going back through the stripping process. The Hammerite was very thick. Much thicker than I remember it ever being before. I had lots of problems with drips and sags and really don't care for the color. What I hoped to be a gloss black ended up being a mottled gray. My first intuition was to go with a spray paint and I thing I will go back to this. In Hammerite's defense, I think my shop was a bit colder than the recommended temp and although not recommended the can of paint could use a bit of thinning with xylene. Oh well. Lesson learned. 


Jamie


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## wa5cab

Naah, the Atlas gods don't like anything but machinery gray.  :lmao:

Robert D.


----------



## Jamiethesquid

After my time in the Navy's canoe club. I have an aversion to Haze Gray. What is the preferred paint color and brand for painting these lathes?


Jamie


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## Jamiethesquid

It might look nice in a Verde Green like my 1953 Shop Smith "greenie"


Jamie


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## wa5cab

One of my favorite sayings is "haze gray and underway".  Another one is... but I digress.  Sears made Atlas use several odd blues and greens and I think Acorn in the UK used an unpleasant green.  But Atlas used a gray that was very close to Rustoleum dark machinery gray through about 1957 and then shifted to the lighter machinery gray.  Red, yellow, some green (except OD variants and Onan green), gloss black and anything hammertone would get a visit in my blast cabinet if it ever ended up here.:rofl:    I also have a Shopsmith, which began life in 1955.  About the only original parts still on it are the legs which one of these days are going to go gray.

Robert D
CWO4 USN Ret'd.


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## Jamiethesquid

Thought I smelled salt on you Robert. FT1 (SS) Jamie Blow


Jamie


----------



## wa5cab

Yep.  That was a few years ago.  I retired in '96.  As far as what color to paint your lathe, use whatever floats your boat, and I'll try to stifle my comments.   :jester:

It is a simple fact that aerosol spray paint doesn't hold up as well as things like two-part epoxy and similar.  But I have to admit that painting is close to root canals on my list of things I don't like to do.  So I either use rattle cans or pay someone else to do it.  A guy over on another forum claims that roller applied and then brushed out epoxy works even better than sprayed epoxy.  But I've not tried it.  Of the rattle can paint brands, I've always preferred Rustoleum.  But I imagine Krylon and a few others are probably just as good.  Or bad, depending upon your point of view.

Robert D.


----------



## Jamiethesquid

I usually get good results with the rattle cans of Rustoleum. Better yet if I give it time to cure and don't get impatient and mung up the fresh paint. 


Jamie


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## shoeboxpaul

I disassembled my electric drive motor to my 6" Atlas, cleaned and painted it a gray using a rattle can. I went online to investigate baking to cure. I could not find specific information on the brand I used so I slid it into the oven in my garage at 250 degrees F. for over 30 minutes. I did this over 3 years ago and the motor seems to clean easily by wiping and it is not stained from cutting oils and lubricants. I have since gotten into powder paints,  the reason for an electric kitchen oven is in my garage. Powder paint is the way to go for durability. Whether rattle can, spray gun, or powder paint,  preparation and curing are important for a lasting finish. 
On another note, Tractor Supply sells cans of paint in various sizes and colors, along with a hardener to produce a more durable finish. Clean your spray gun immediately or the paint with hardener could cause serious issues.


----------



## Jamiethesquid

I have wanted a powder coating rig forever!!  I just need a big enough space for an oven. i see them free for the taking on the side of the road all the time. 


Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

What brand of powder coating equip do you prefer. Are you using the eastwood stuff. If not do you have any experience with their products?


Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Now that Christmas has passed I have gotten serious about putting my shop back together and improving my overall organization.  

I spent a couple hours last night stripping some parts on the Atlas. I have been using Captain John's Boat Bright Soy Stripper. This stuff is amazing, and is the only stripper I will use. http://www.boatbrite.com/boat-brite-products/boat-brite-soy-stripper/45/58  I found this product when we were restoring a 30 foot sail boat that my parents own. We were stripping multiple layers of marine varnish from the teak and it was amazing to use. Has a very slight odor but nothing that carries and not volatile or flammable. I wear gloves to keep the softened paint off my hands, but have no issue getting this stuff on my fingers when repositioning parts. It is the consistency of warm honey. It stays wet for a long time and digs through multiple layers of paint. 

The original Atlas paint is removed with one application to the bare metal. I will post pics tonight. I scrape off the paint with a west system plastic mixing stick. Rinse the part under warm water and give a scrub with a scotch brite and I am left with the bare casting. 

Last night I stripped the base/legs. I had 3 coats of etching primer and a heavy! Coat of Hammerite inside and out. I also stripped the tailstock, and tailstock base, gear guard, compound upper and lower swivel, tool post slide

Ultrasonically cleaned the Spindle pulley and gear, back gear assembly, tumbler assembly, and some of the various hardware. 

I am going to strip the headstock paint on the outside. Probably won't strip the paint on the bed because it is in good shape, I will however degrease it thoroughly before I decide. Then the carriage assembly and all will be done. 

I will continue to use a self etch spray primer and I'm going to switch gears to rattle can rust o leum probably in Machinery gray. 


Jamie


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## shoeboxpaul

Jamie,
Sorry for the late reply, blame it on Christmas. 
I have the single voltage gun from Eastwood. For the money, it is very good equipment. It works. After I purchased it, they came out with the dual voltage gun. I strongly suggest the dual voltage if you go for their gun. The higher voltage helps you to overcome a Faraday Cage effect. I said helps - not all the time.  I encountered the cage effect painting  wing spar attachments for an Aeronca. I had to heat the part to coat between the steel halves (think tall U-channel). Read everything you can get your hands on about the process. Castings can be a pain due to oil absorption. Castings have to be cleaned and baked at 500 deg F. for an hour, then cleaned again. Still no guarantees that more oil will not come out and ruin your nice paint job during the 'bake to cure' process. I really enjoy powder coating. When all goes well, it is faster than painting, no volatiles, sweep up the over spray, the magnitude of colors and effects  including glow in the dark, and it is so durable. You can purchase expensive equipment but, if you are not doing it for pay, save your money. You will have more problems with oil, hanging the part, Faraday Cage effect, etc, than you will from an inexpensive powder coat gun. Eastwood is not a discount house so search around for deals on powder paint, even Ebay.  I use Ted's, All Powders, Powder by the Pound, Prismatic, Ebay, and anyone with a deal for the color I need. I have used HF powders, very inexpensive and they seem to work OK. They also sell a gun but, my experience with replacement parts from HF has been quite frustrating. BTW, choose the largest oven you can get, they're never large enough as you will find out. 
Go for it.
Paul


----------



## Jamiethesquid

I am having no luck with the search function. Can anyone tell me what the size of the 2 belts are. I believe that I found somewhere that the jackshaft to the spindle was a 3L 370 but for the life of me I can't find it. I suppose I could do the old wrap a piece of string around the pulleys and buy the closest size but I would rather have the exact lengths.


----------



## roadie33

Just go to a Harbor Freight and pick up some Link Belts and make your own. They can be made to fit any length. Also run quieter than normal belts.


----------



## Jamiethesquid

roadie33 said:


> Just go to a Harbor Freight and pick up some Link Belts and make your own. They can be made to fit any length. Also run quieter than normal belts.


do they come in the 3/8" 3L width. The only ones I saw on their web site were 1/2"


----------



## Jamiethesquid

I see some of the 3L size on Ebay for a decent price. That is probably where I will get  it from


Jamie


----------



## wa5cab

The belts on the 618 are:

3L210   Motor
3L350   Spindle

My personal considered opinion is that link belts should only be used for what they were developed for - emergency repairs.  Reports that they are quieter than standard V-belts always seem (if you dig into the case) to be comparing a new link belt to a 70 year old V-belt.  Like vehicle tires, V-belts should be replaced every 10 or 15 years, whether they are worn out or not.  

Link belts can't transfer as much torque as the same width V-belt for two reasons.  They are much thinner so have less than half the surface area in contact with the pulleys.  And they stretch.  It isn't uncommon to see someone write that they had to remove a link in order to get the belt tension back up.

They are not rated for reverse operation.

And finally, decent quality link belts are more expensive.

Robert D.


----------



## CoopVA

I've been getting Browning V Belts from Amazon, very reasonable price.  They are Prime eligible too, so no shipping cost if you have a Prime membership.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Jamiethesquid

I am seriously delinquent in posting some pictures, last night I had a little time to work on the parts.  After stripping and rinsing the parts, they flash rusted very quickly as I would have expected.  So into the Evap-o- Rust they went, I left them in there till last night.  Took them out and rinsed the carbon off and gave them a light scrub with a SS wire brush.  Then re dipped them and let them air dry.  The Evap-o-Rust container recommends this for a protection from flash rusting.

Tonight I want to label and bag the parts, take some pictures, and get the legs and the gear cover in the Evap-o-Rust.  May start degreasing the head stock and carriage if time permits.  I noticed that I am missing the Guard on the Compound #M6-37  I will fab one out of sheet metal until I can find a replacement at a decent price.

Once all the small parts are safely bagged and tagged, I will start the disassembly and cleanup of the Countershaft Assy, the head stock, the bed, and the Carriage.  I would love to continue priming the parts but right now they are forecasting -30F in Maine and Painting in the Basement is a no go with spray paint.  My shed is available but unheated.  

I have decided to mount the lathe to my 60" Craftsman workbench.  It has a 1.5" MDF top capped in Galvanized sheet metal.  I am going to make a back splash to contain the chips, this bench has Ball Bearing drawers and shelves under it.  It is currently bolted to the concrete foundation wall.  I am going to level and square the bench as best as possible and add some home made leveling feet to each end to compensate for seasonal changes and variations in the floor.  I have another 1.5" thick top that I am considering adding to the bench top, that would give me 3" of wood, mounted to steel, filled with tools, bolted to concrete, I hope this is rigid enough LOL!!

I will take a bunch of pics tonight and upload them ASAP


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Totally disassembled the chuck, degreased, de-rusted, soaked in oil. Then greased and reassembled. 


Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Compound


Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Jamie


----------



## itsme_Bernie

I remember re-curbing this exact machine years ago.
Looking great!  

Bernie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Can't wait to get it all done. Then in the Spring we will be tearing into the 1940 Leblond Regal. I am going to just do a strip and clean on that machine so I can start making some chips.


----------



## Jamiethesquid

So, I see on other resto threads that some people take a little body filler or glazing putty and fill in the rough spots of the sand casting before painting. The obsessive compulsive in me says that this is something I should do. I know it is not necessary. But what the heck. I already have the glazing putty and some 3M plastic metal. I will put this on after the etching prime and before the paint.


----------



## Round in circles

It's looking good . 
I see there is no " engineers adjustment marks :roflmao:to most of the slots in the screw heads ... that bodes well for a machine that will run true when reassembled correctly .


----------



## Jamiethesquid

It looks like the machine has very very little use. 


Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Did a little more disassembly tonight. Hope to get the remaining parts degreased and stripped of paint. Temp is still below zero so I am not able to prime and paint but I have to do something. 
	

		
			
		

		
	









Jamie


----------



## Jamiethesquid

I was able to remove the carriage feed easy enough. But the half nut lever seems to be swaged on the shaft. Oh well it might just stay in place. However the cross slide screw I would like to remove but it is being stubborn.  The slotted nut on the end of the handle, any suggestions on removing that. I was trying a screwdriver to no avail. Maybe grinding a blade in the end of a socket?  


Jamie


----------



## wa5cab

Jamie,

For recessed slotted nuts, I always first look around at tool suppliers (both mechanical and electronic) to see whether anyone makes either a square drive or nut driver style tool of the correct size.  If I find nothing Or if I need it NOW) , then I usually sacrifice a deep pattern 12-point square drive socket (more often than not a 1/4" drive) and mill the blades on the end of it.  I've done several sizes now so seldom encounter a size that I don't already have.  The reason that I always use a deep pattern socket is that some of the cases where I encounter the slotted nuts, there is a shaft of some sort sticking out from them.  Sockets, although hardened, aren't that hard.  And I've not encountered one that didn't machine OK.  The problem with grinding in this instance is first accuracy and second getting a square corner.  Ideally you want the blade length about .005" shorter than the slot depth.  So to fit properly with no wobble, you can't have much of a radius between the blades and the end of the cut back socket.  Also, cut the blades long and then cut off to desired length.  The ends of sockets are rounded off, which is something that you do not want on a screwdriver tip.

Robert D.


----------



## Jamiethesquid

Thanks Robert. As I currently don't have a mill I will be doing this "old school" with a grinder a file and some sweat. I'm not afraid though. 


Jamie


----------



## Round in circles

I have used a high grade alloy steel Bosch jigsaw blade to remove these nightmare nuts by simply ensuring the blade fits snugly in the nut slot then grind out the area of the bolt thread  from the back of the blade , as these edges are almost perfectly square they tend to l bite  into worn slots .
 Once the " bridge " is made use a pair of mole clamp pliers  to hold/push  the blade square in the slots and then gently unscrew the nut 

Sections of the thicker broken industrial hacksaw blades are also good for the bigger nuts that have a lot of thread poking through but you often have to kiss /grind the back of the blade on a grinder to a sharp edge before making the bridging cut out .


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## Mondo

Round in circles said:


> I have used a high grade alloy steel Bosch jigsaw blade to remove these nightmare nuts by simply ensuring the blade fits snugly in the nut slot then grind out the area of the bolt thread  from the back of the blade , as these edges are almost perfectly square they tend to l bite  into worn slots .
> Once the " bridge " is made use a pair of mole clamp pliers  to hold/push  the blade square in the slots and then gently unscrew the nut
> 
> Sections of the thicker broken industrial hacksaw blades are also good for the bigger nuts that have a lot of thread poking through but you often have to kiss /grind the back of the blade on a grinder to a sharp edge before making the bridging cut out .



I don't seem to be grasping this procedure well and sure would like to see a photo or two.  I'd be most appreciative if you could oblige.

Spiral_Chips


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## wa5cab

Spiral,

What he's saying is that he made a sort of screwdriver tip out of a short piece of hack saw blade by cutting a 3/8" wide notch in one edge.  The notch is just deep enough to clear the 3/8-24 threaded stud that the nut is screwed onto.  You can also (and I have) make these special relived tip screwdrivers out of regular slot screwdrivers that have tips with a width at least as wide as the OD of the nut.  They are actually easier to make than from a socket but a screwdriver large enough to make one from will be much more expensive than the socket.

Robert D.


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## Jamiethesquid

So, I got that foolish nut off with little drama after grinding a tool from a cold chisel. Then the real fun started. The handle on the cross feed would not come off. I tried backing off the nut between the handle and the graduated dial. That pushed it off a bit. But no amount of heat and penetrating oil would move it any further.  I mistakenly ran the nut up against the woodruff key and although the handle came free the nut stripped the threads on the shaft and started to cock badly.   

Guess I should have asked this before. But does anyone have a procedure for removing this cross feed screw properly. I am probably going to have to replace this one with an Ebay part. 


Jamie


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## wa5cab

Jaime,

First, it is not normal for the crank not to slide right off after removing the special nut.  And as a suggestion for the future, first study the exploded view parts list before attempting to disassemble something.  It would have shown the woodruff key and probably saved the screw and jam nut.

With the crank, woodruff key and jam nut off, remove the dial.  At that point, from your top view photograph of the carriage, it looks like the cross feed screw should just pull out to the rear.  Note that this is not the case with the 10" and 12" machines with power cross feed.

Robert D.


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## Jamiethesquid

I did look at the exploded diagram, though probably not long enough. The aluminum crank was seized hard to the end of the screw. And once I started backing off the jam nut I continued down that path. Ruining everything!  I am normally a patient person, but I was at the tail end of Major Snowblower repairs in a freezing cold shed and hours of snow blowing after the Blizzard we had here in Maine that day.  


Jamie


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## Jamiethesquid

So I think there is some hope for me yet, I will post some more pics soon.  So I did in fact drive the Jam nut up into the woodruff key which did cause all sorts of problems damaging the threads in the area of the key.  

I plan to upgrade the hand cranks on the cross slide and the compound with home made hand wheels, I also plan to outfit the machine with better graduated dials, I find the little Atlas ones about impossible to see.  When I undertake this upgrade I will address the screw, as it might also be in line for an upgrade.  The only damage to the original is to a couple of threads and the jam nut in the area of the woodruff key seat.  I will clean up those threads and replace the woodruff key, and I should be back in business.


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## Jamiethesquid

So after a bit of a hiatus, getting some other projects done and raising a young family, I am ready to get the lathe put back together and start making some chips.  Now that the weather is nice I can prime and paint the castings and start the reassembly.


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