# Atlas/Craftsman Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates (if applicable) For Database Entries



## wa5cab

Edited with title change 20200627

In the combined machine database (742 entries to date) there are 180 10" entries, 21 of which show no serial numbers.  There are 113 Craftsman entries, 19 or which show no serial numbers.  Plus we only have 30 10" and 22 12" bearing dates for Timken equipped 10" or 12".  

Anyway, anyone with any Atlas built machine (not just lathes) who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number;  bed length, serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates are available, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).  Also any comments you wish to make about condition, accessories, when and where purchased, price, etc.  
If your machine is a MK2 6", there is a somewhat more detailed questionnaire also in this sticky area.  If you've responded to that questionnaire, no response is needed here.

Thanks, Robert D.


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## Bellers

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

I'm afraid I don't know of the yahoo database but I have a 10F here in England. I'm afraid I have no ideas on original purchase date but the serial number is only 56 after the shipping note shown on lathes.co.uk (024444 shipped 4/23/41)


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Bellers,

Thanks.  I'm about to conclude that the one that is so far out of sequence has a misplaced 0 or a missing 1.

Robert D.


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## rfdes

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

I recently restored my 10F and replaced the timken bearings.  My bearings were etched with
'5-4-42' for the date.  The TH36 tag indicated a serial # of 032618.

You will notice the brass tag with some Navy serial number.  I figured I would spruce that up as well.
I always wished that I could find some further information regarding the meaning of this number.  If 
anyone can shed some light on its significance, it would be appreciated.

Jim
WB5KYE


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Jim,

Thanks.  That falls in line with some other dates that I have and is further evidence that in one, either the serial number or the date is incorrect.

The brass plate looks like a Navy Plant Account tag.  Up through at least the 1960's, shore stations at least had what they called a "Plant Account".  It was an inventory of all equipment, including furniture that had been assigned to the station.  Each item was assigned a number, whether it also had a serial number or not.  But I don't recall suffix letters so can't say what "KM" means.  The only thing that comes to mind is Kings Mountain, but I don't know of any Navy connection.  So it must mean something else.

Robert D.


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## shaddr3

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

My atlas 10"x36 is a Th54 serial 065874 with pickomatic gear box. I can't find the bearing numbers. I believe it is a 1945, I have the original catalogs, original bulletins and other ancient documents dating back that far. Hope this helps.
Royce


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Thanks, Royce.  That falls in line with the nearest known date and serial number I have.  If any of the ancient documents happen to be the invoice, shipping notice, or similar, that would be helpful.

No bearing dates probably means that a PO replaced them.  

Robert D.


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## cdhknives

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

I have a range of catalogs with my lathe but the oldest is 1941 so I've concluded it's age is thereabout.  No idea on bearing date, no call to disassemble the headstock to date (thankfully!).  Roller bearings, 10F w/horizontal countershaft.

QC-54
003825


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

AFAIK, 003825 could be consistent with 1940 or 1941.  But we have no production figures and one thing that has not been established yet is whether or not Atlas started over at 00001 with the 10F.  As we have very few bearing dates off of Timken 10F's and none off of 10D's, dating the 10" is difficult.  The one thing that is established is that the QC42/54 did definitely start over at 00001 as we have several reported 3-digit serial numbers in the database.  I had about decided that they did start over when two or three definitely 10F's turned up with serial numbers with "D" prefixes.  The only explanation I could come up with for that was that the beds were finished, including serial numbers, during the transition from 10D to 10F.  And that some beds that had started through the manufacturing process intended for 10D's ended up on 10F's instead.

Correction 2015/04/07- first QC was built 1947.  003825 current best guess would be 1949.  Don't know where my brain was when I wrote the above.

2nd Correction 2022/08/01 - The above was apparently written before we discovered that only the first two or three years production of the  QC42/54  have serial numbers out of that "new" block of serial numbers.  In late 1949 or early 1950 the QC models were merged into the main 10" serial number block with the rest of the 10F's.  Although this happened during the time that Atlas or Timken was still engraving inspection  dates onto the spindle bearings, we don't have any dates reported that will pin down the 1949 or 1950 to one or the other.  

Robert D.


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## Jim Hubbell

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

My Atlas is a ten inch Model TH54, serial 072641.  The date etched on the spindle bearing is: 9-10-46.   
The half nut threads were worn very thin by the time I purchased it. I have since made up two sets so as to have a spare.

I also made a spindle compound gear and idler.   I made a 127 tooth change gear so as to cut metric threads. 
Despite the prejudice towards Atlas I believe it to be a great tool when used within its capabilities.


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

*cdhknives*,

I haven't been getting enough sleep lately, which is my excuse for totally missing the fact that you reported that your machine is a QC54.  The Atlas QCGB didn't come out until late 1947 (first catalog it shows up in is L47).  So your machine has to be later.  How much later we don't have enough data to say.  We only have serial numbers for eleven QC models total.  Of the eleven, only one was reported with believable age documentation (original invoice or shipping document - record isn't clear on which).  It is S/N 000647 shipped January, 1948.  In the eleven reports, the highest reported serial number is 004882.  The QC models were sold from late 1947 through late 1957.  Considering that the highest reported serial number change gear 10F is 088631, from a start date of about 1935, I find it hard to believe that less than 5000 QC models were built.

Dates on catalogs found with these old machines are not useful in dating them.  A good example of why not is me.  For neary 30 years, if someone had acquired my 3996 and related Atlas stuff from my widow, they would have found a 1980 lathe, a 1978 catalog and a 1978 MOLO.  However, after about 2010, they would have begun to find conflicting indicators.  I got interested in the thing again from a collector standpoint and began to track down and buy all of the accessories that I hadn't bought in 1981.  And older and newer catalogs.  Today, they would find catalogs from 1931 through 1981 and MOLO's from 1937 through 1988.  And accessories that hadn't been sold since the 1950's.

Anyway, your machine was built 1948 or later unless the PO bought and retrofitted the QCGB after 1947 and changed the nameplate.  And serial number 003825 on a change gear machine is almost certain to have been on a 10D.  That's another area where the database has so few entries as to be statistically inconclusive and possibly incorrect as well.  That's one of the reasons that I started this sticky thread - in hopes of collecting enough data to be able to weed out the bogus entries.  Sadly, there has been very little response.




cdhknives said:


> I have a range of catalogs with my lathe but the oldest is 1941 so I've concluded it's age is thereabout.  No idea on bearing date, no call to disassemble the headstock to date (thankfully!).  Roller bearings, 10F w/horizontal countershaft.
> 
> QC-54
> 003825


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## cdhknives

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*



wa5cab said:


> *cdhknives*,
> 
> 
> Anyway, your machine was built 1948 or later unless the PO bought and retrofitted the QCGB after 1947 and changed the nameplate.  And serial number 003825 on a change gear machine is almost certain to have been on a 10D.  That's another area where the database has so few entries as to be statistically inconclusive and possibly incorrect as well.  That's one of the reasons that I started this sticky thread - in hopes of collecting enough data to be able to weed out the bogus entries.  Sadly, there has been very little response.



I also have the power cross slide of a 10F, but no way of determing (other than probably not with the history I know of) if it was retrofitted.  What else is a dead giveaway between a 10D and 10F?

The lathe came into my family in the 1960's when my grandfather bought it and my uncle (then a HS student) helped him rebuild it.  The lead screw was badly worn near the headstock, so it was removed and remachined to reverse it end to end...so my leadscrew works in opposite directions and I assume a custom half nut was made.  It works fine otherwise, so long as I work close to the headstock.  Other than that, I understand nothing but much cleanup was done to it, but my uncle is still around and in good shape so I'll ask...

The history of these is a big part of the fun and value!


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

The QC54 is a 10F with QCGB.  There were four 10" groups, more or less.  10, 10A, 10B & 10C are the first group.  10D and 10E are the second.  10F is the third.  And the QC was the fourth.  The 10D differs from the 10F in having nearly square (and symmetrical left to right) feet.  Whereas the 10F feet are longer left to right and "lean" toward the center.  The 10D has a 5/8" dia. lead screw and a vertical countershaft (early 10F's could be bought with the vertical countershaft, too).  The 10D and earlier had a one-piece carriage.  But it had the later compound slide, cranks and handwheels.  It also had the later change gear guard (cover).  It had two individual gear guards on top of the headstock and did not have a belt guard.  It was available with optional Timken spindle bearings but the majority had babbit.  Early 10F were available with babbit bearings (through about 1945) but most have Timken.  10D up through S/N 3969 had two studs for the compound swivel.  S/n 3970 and later had the same inverted cone pintle used through end of production in 1981.  The only other thing I can think of is that the 10D change gear set included a 96T gear.  But that distinction went away with the Pic-O-Matic and the QCGB.  

There are, incidentally, two versions of the QCGB.  The early one (No. 1500 for 3/4" and 1570 for 5/8" lead screw) had a FWD/REV tumbler similar to the one on all 12" and 6".  With a spring-loaded pin holding it in any of the three positions.  The later one from around 1952 and later (6800 for either 3/4" or 5/8") had a clamp bolt that had to be loosened in order to change directions.

The database is sadly lacking in 4-digit serial numbers for 10D and 10F (exactly one of each, and as reported the 10D number is higher than the 10F) so we do not any idea what the last 10D serial number was.  The current record jumps from those two 4-digit numbers (6301 & 8635) to 17609 (which is either an H48 or an H54 - the serial number was entered twice, with conflicting model numbers - once apparently by Tim Symes in Alberta, Canada and the other time with no name or location given).

Robert D.


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## LeakyCanoe

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

interesting thread Robert.  Sorry I lack any provenance of note nor have I had to tear-down the machine to access the bearings.

  Accordingly, I have only the photo of the ID tag with model ( TH48 ) and the nice round serial # ( 46,000 )  for you.  I hope there was a tip of the hat at the machine as it was sent on down the line back in the day...


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## Mike R

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

how do you get the bearing covers off to look for the dates ?


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## Mike R

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Here are the serial numbers for the three lathes I have.   TH-48  041302 it has a QCGB.     TH-48  058280      TV-42  030376


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## Wierd Harold

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

10-F QC54 # 088015

Bearing dates: 1-21-51 & 4-9-51

Just to confuse things, in the box of parts was an extra set of bearings # 8-20-43 & 10-11-43

HWF

ps fyi I took the headstock apart because of the gear which drives the back gear had most of it's teeth missing along with the small back gear. They both crumbled in my hand like they were made of plaster when I pulled them off.


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

My replies (and anyone elses 10/04/14 - 10/06/14) were lost in a system crash.  So I'm going to repeat them as best I recall, and all in one reply.

Mike R,

The only practical way to remove the dust covers without damage is to pull the spindle.  But even if you could get them off, you wouldn't be able to see the dates as they are on the wide side of the cups.

Harold,

The 1943 dated bearings did not come from your QC54 because the two QC models didn't first appear until late 1947.


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## louosten

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Hello All,
I recently acquired an old Atlas 10" Model F lathe (verified from available pictures/literature). It has Babbit headstock bearings and the bed length is 36". It has a big 3/4" lead screw. There is a serial number stamped in the front rail at the extreme right, H 15883 S. No other designations exist. I estimate the age of the machine from the early 1940s. Does anyone have a better guess?
Lou O.


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Lou,

You didn't mention whether or not your lathe still has its countershaft but the little available information suggests that the "H" prefix found in some early serial numbers means Horizontal.  So the model number would be H36.  No one has come up with any logical explanation for the "S" suffix.

We have no confirmed (by Timken bearing date or early paperwork) serial numbers earlier than three from 1942.  It is thought that with the exception of the QC42 and QC54, all Atlas 10" models have serial numbers out of the same sequence.  Meaning that the first 10" made was serial number 1 (later to be called 000001) and that the numbers ran up from there through 1957.  Making the crude assumption that the production rate was relatively constant and estimating the mfg date off of the 1942 serial number, your machine would have been made in late 1938.  If you assume higher production rates from 1940 on, then 1939.  This at least doesn't disagree with other source data, mainly catalogs from the period.

Robert D.


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## louosten

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Robert;
Thanks for the reply. Yes, this machine came with a horizontal countershaft setup, so the "H" is resolved . The "S" could mean standard (Babbitt) bearings, or maybe standard bed length (36"). Interestingly, the guy I purchased it from said it was built in the 1960s...only off about 22 years! Would you happen to know Atlas' annual production rate on these machines?
Lou O.


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Lou,

OK on "H" but the standard bed length was 42" according to several catalogs.  On the "S", what little information we have in the database would agree with Standard = Babbit .  But we have several 101.07403 probably from a later period with an "S" suffix and that model only came with Timken bearings.  So that has to be filed under "maybe",

We have no actual production data.  We have only a few 9" serial numbers but they are all lower than any 10" s/n.  So I am beginning to think that Serial Number 1 was a 9" compound drive and not the first 10".  The highest 10" serial number that we have is 88786 which I calculated (from one with bearing dates of 06/22/1951) was made around 08/14/1951.  When I get time, I will use post-war data and calculate the approximate highest serial number.  It will be under 100000, because that's what the late 12" started at.  

Robert D.


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## pmansfield

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

I just picked up a QC54 with serial number 004218.  Not sure about anything else since I have had it for 2 whole days.


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Sorry but we only have one date on a QC and that only the year (1947).  The first model 10" QCGB appeared in late 1947.  Unfortunately, after apparently running a continuous sequence of serial numbers from at least 1936 and probably from 1932, Atlas started over at 000001 with the QC42 and QC54.  The only thing about age that can be said is that it was made between 1947 and 1957.  We don't know how many were made so can't guess on a year.  The highest serial number we currently have for a 10" QC is 004882.  But the highest serial number we have on a change gear model was made in 1952, five years before they quit making them.  So there is no way to guess whether 004882 was near the end, in the middle, or what.

Robert D.


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## Wierd Harold

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Here is a picture of my # plate on the 10" QC54 I recently acquired.


HWF


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Well, Harold, that is weird (pun intended).  That serial number would probably date to late June, 1951.  But the other 10 QC's that I have serial numbers on are all under 005000.  And at the time that the first QC came out, the 10F was above 078000.  Maybe after a few years, they decided to go back to the original serial number pool.  Only finding another 5-digit number will tell.

Robert D.


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## pmansfield

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Mine also has 3/8" ways if that helps to date these, as I've heard somewhere around '50 is when they switched to 1/2"?


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

No, the 10" had 3/8" ways from start to finish.  The 1/2" ways are in the 12" versions (two) built from late 1957 through to end of lathe production in 1981.

Robert D.


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## dwl324

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

I have an atlas 10d s/n a3965s stamped in the right end of outside way.  it is 36" c to c. i would like to know when it was manufactured. i think it is a 1936 year model.  i appreciate any info that you have.
                                                                                      thanks. dennis


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Dennis,

How did you ID it as a 10D?  There were at least six 10" models (not counting the four bed lengths that all were available in, which would mean 24 models) sold before the 10F's appeared.  There are a couple of examples reported that would tend to suggest that it might originally have been a 10A instead.  Post a front view photo if you can.  We have no firm (supported by any evidence) dates for early 10" but from the serial number, my initial guess is sometime in 1935.

Robert D.


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## louosten

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Robert;

Here are a couple other things I noticed on this model (H36) 10" F lathe:

1. The on/off switch has an oval shape (not rectangular)
2. The set screws on the countershaft "hanger" have hex heads, not single blade screw heads
3. The half-nut lever is not fastened on by a screw; it's pinged on by a ball peen hammer

There may be other small nuances I haven't discovered yet. So far, your hunch places it at about 1939 vintage; according to your last post, approximately 100,000 10" model F lathes were produced. Is this right?

Lou O.




wa5cab said:


> Lou,
> 
> OK on "H" but the standard bed length was 42" according to several catalogs.  On the "S", what little information we have in the database would agree with Standard = Babbit .  But we have several 101.07403 probably from a later period with an "S" suffix and that model only came with Timken bearings.  So that has to be filed under "maybe",
> 
> We have no actual production data.  We have only a few 9" serial numbers but they are all lower than any 10" s/n.  So I am beginning to think that Serial Number 1 was a 9" compound drive and not the first 10".  The highest 10" serial number that we have is 88786 which I calculated (from one with bearing dates of 06/22/1951) was made around 08/14/1951.  When I get time, I will use post-war data and calculate the approximate highest serial number.  It will be under 100000, because that's what the late 12" started at.
> 
> Robert D.


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Lou,

(1) According to photos in available catalogs (specifically 1942 and 1943), the headstock casting was changed to use the rectangular switch plate in time for making the photographs for the 1943 catalog.  Catalog L43 is dated December 1943.  So that doesn't help pin down when yours was made as we already knew from some bearing dates that it was earlier than May 1942.

(2)  Judging by photographs in some Sears catalogs, headless slotted set screws may have been used on the Craftsman 9" countershaft bearing adjusters in 1932 through 1935.  However, all four catalogs used the same photograph which does not zoom in well.  So I'm not sure.  All Atlas catalogs from 1932 through 1952 (all 9" and all 10") show the square head screw.  I don't think that Hex head screws would have ever been used.  The same wrench (supplied with the lathe) that fits the carriage lock and the screw in the tool post would also fit the square head screws in the countershaft.  So the hex head ones are probably not original to your machine.

(3)  That appears to have changed from peened to screw at the same time as the headstock and switch plate change (between 1942 and 1943).

Not exactly.  What I said was that the sum of all Atlas 9" and all 10" was something under 100,000 but over 93668.  The new 12" serial numbers (Atlas) started at 100000.  Or maybe 100001.  The highest change gear 10" serial number we have is 088786 and the highest 4-digit QC serial number that we have is 4882, the sum of which is 93668.  88786 has a 1951 bearing date.  And we have one example indicating that Atlas may have shifted the QC serial numbers over to run with the other 10".  So the highest serial number must have gotten quite close to 100000.

However, we don't have data to pin down the first 10F serial number very closely.  There is a gap in the database between a 10D at 8635 and a 10F at 15883 (yours).

Robert D.


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## Hankus

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Wish I could provide a purchase date, but I feel fairly comfortable that I'm only the third owner of an Atlas 10F serial number V9552S.  Its 36 inch bed vertical countershaft, with Babbitt bearings.  Documentation purchased with this lathe included VERY early edition of the Atlas Lathe Operation and Machinists Tables book.  Confirmed that this is not an original edition but very early nevertheless and the original owner had signed his name inside.  Earliest edition I'm told was 1937 with first revision in 1938-1939.  It has several dated entries in the notes pages which were from a Chicago saw sharpening business April 1946.  FWIW


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Hankus,

Thanks for the serial number, model number, and bearing and countershaft types.  That is the lowest 10F serial number that we have, only about 900 above the highest 10D number that we have.

For more details on the print and content history of the Atlas Manual of Lathe Operation and Machinist Tables (MOLO for short), see my writeup in Downloads, mentioned in a Sticky above.  But briefly, all MOLO's printed between 1937 and 1954 say Copyright 1937 on the copyright page.  1955 was the first year to give the print date and the print history (years in which an edition was printed).  There were apparently five versions.  And three types of bindings.  V4 and V5 (Atlas and Craftsman) were printed from circa 1940 on.  Although V3 was apparently sold with a lathe in 1943 (probably some Sears store didn't practice FIFO).

Robert D.


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## Hankus

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*



wa5cab said:


> Hankus,
> 
> Thanks for the serial number, model number, and bearing and countershaft types.  That is the lowest 10F serial number that we have, only about 900 above the highest 10D number that we have.
> 
> For more details on the print and content history of the Atlas Manual of Lathe Operation and Machinist Tables (MOLO for short), see my writeup in Downloads, mentioned in a Sticky above.  But briefly, all MOLO's printed between 1937 and 1954 say Copyright 1937 on the copyright page.  1955 was the first year to give the print date and the print history (years in which an edition was printed).  There were apparently five versions.  And three types of bindings.  V4 and V5 (Atlas and Craftsman) were printed from circa 1940 on.  Although V3 was apparently sold with a lathe in 1943 (probably some Sears store didn't practice FIFO).
> 
> Robert D.



I know you and I have discussed my MOLO in the past and knew it was a very early print.  In fact on the back page there is a small display of current lathes and none display a power crossfeed.


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Don't know how I missed this post.  The PDF of MOLO V1 that I have doesn't have any photos in the back.  Could you send me a copy of it?

Robert D.


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## Hankus

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*



wa5cab said:


> Don't know how I missed this post.  The PDF of MOLO V1 that I have doesn't have any photos in the back.  Could you send me a copy of it?
> 
> Robert D.



I would be glad to, if I could only figure out how to rotate the scanned image.  Look at these in the meantime.


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## Hankus

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*



Hankus said:


> I would be glad to, if I could only figure out how to rotate the scanned image.  Look at these in the meantime.



How's this?


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

I had already done it (rotated the pages) but those look fine.  The machines shown (specifically the 10A and 10C) match those shown in what several of us think is a 1935 Atlas catalog.  In the (we think) 1937 catalog, the 10A, B & C are replaced by the 10E.  As the First Edition appeared in 1937, the 10E photo may not have been available yet.  

I have a total of three different copies (two hard copies and one PDF) of the V1.  They all have minor differences and none have the photos in the back.  I suspect that V1 went through more than one printing.  V2/3 (at least the one original I have of it) doesn't have the photos.  If they had added the photos at the second or third printing of V1, I would think that they would have carried over to V2.  So your copy may well be not only V1 but a First Edition.

Robert D.


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## Hankus

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*



wa5cab said:


> I had already done it (rotated the pages) but those look fine.  The machines shown (specifically the 10A and 10C) match those shown in what several of us think is a 1935 Atlas catalog.  In the (we think) 1937 catalog, the 10A, B & C are replaced by the 10E.  As the First Edition appeared in 1937, the 10E photo may not have been available yet.
> 
> I have a total of three different copies (two hard copies and one PDF) of the V1.  They all have minor differences and none have the photos in the back.  I suspect that V1 went through more than one printing.  V2/3 (at least the one original I have of it) doesn't have the photos.  If they had added the photos at the second or third printing of V1, I would think that they would have carried over to V2.  So your copy may well be not only V1 but a First Edition.
> 
> Robert D.



I won't give it to you, but I would be willing to send you my edition for your review, if you'll be sure to return it.  Let me know.


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

That might be worth doing.  I can compare the rest of it to the copies of V1 that I have and confirm that there isn't yet another significantly different version.  But let's wait until after New Year.

Robert D.


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## Hankus

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*



wa5cab said:


> That might be worth doing.  I can compare the rest of it to the copies of V1 that I have and confirm that there isn't yet another significantly different version.  But let's wait until after New Year.
> 
> Robert D.



I would be happy to do that if for nothing else to get a better appraisal of the copy I have, and to contribute anyway to the history of the MOLO if possible.


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## louosten

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Gentlemen;

It occurred to me that there may be several Atlas lathe owners out there that can't find their serial numbers. Admittedly, until I cleaned off the front way of this lathe I'm working on, it was not clearly visible due to rust & discoloration. If you have an older model, look at the far right end of the front most way near the tailstock for the number:




This lathe, # H 15883 S, was brought home 'by the truck load' several months ago. I thought I got a deal at $300; now I'm not so sure. After spending considerable time cleaning the machine up, I've realized, as many others have said, that you can put many hours in restoring old iron to working condition again. Fortunately, my clean-up operation has not revealed any serious problems...just getting rid of old grease, de-rusting, painting, and replacing broken handwheels.




There is some wear after 70 or so years, but the machine seems to be usable again. I'll post some other pics under a new heading...later. 

Lou O.


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Yep.  Quite often we see statements from new owners that there is no serial number on the bed and no sign anywhere that there was ever a nameplate.  It is extremely unlikely that Atlas ever actually shipped a lathe (or mill, shaper or drill press) without a nameplate.  And available evidence suggests that they didn't stop putting the serial number on the bed until late 1957.

Robert D.


----------



## robinj66

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*





Hi Robert

I have a TV36 with a serial number 024446 which is quite close to the document shown n the lathes.co.uk site. I can only guess that it is contemporary to that machine - presumably sent over the pond as part of the war effort.

 I believe it to have Timken bearings but I haven't stripped it down to confirm this.  As you can see it has the oval switch surround.

I don't know anything about it's early history - I bought it from a mate in 2012. He had it for a few years (but no more than 5)


----------



## Round in circles

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Robin,
I have a Sphere back gear lathe possibly a totally British made version under license of the Atlas 10 F in 1943/44 but with some  USA tooling..

 My lathe has proveable history I'm the third owner previous The original naval engineering officer who had it passed it to his son .
The son sold it to me it in August  2014. 
 It was purchased as one of the first warstock release sales  in Feb 1946 at an auction held in London and was still in it's original wooden crate with greased packing etc.  My model was primarily used in the  munitions arena most likely making torpedo fuses for that is what the original naval engineer was involved with and where he saw the lathe at work 

 There were quite a few USA units stationed around the UK before & after D day with plenty of engineering capabilities plus the legacy USAF bases that existed /still exist even today . Your lathe might have come from one of these sources either at close down sales or  as a personal sale off a serviceman .


----------



## wcornwel

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Mine is a QC54 with SN 004958.  I don't know the date on the bearings.


----------



## atlas ten

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

i have no idea on age of my 2 atlas 10".  both 54" beds. first is s# d4598s. vertical counter shaft, 5/8 lead screw and  babbitt bearing. second is h54  s# 048529. horizontal counter shaft, 3/4 lead screw and babbitt bearing.  the atlas manuals that came with fist one are dated 37, was told it was made in 39. the h54 came with book dated 75. i think this was previous owner bought it.


----------



## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

atlas ten,

(Please sign posts).  Thanks.  The first one is a 10D, Model Number 1054.  Judging from rather scanty early info, it was more likely made in late 1937.  Looks nice.  My only down comment would be that I would get it onto a decent bench before I tried to use it much.  And lose the castors.  Otherwise, I don't see anything missing.

The H54 is of course a 10F and at a rough guess was made 3rd Quarter 1943.  It also looks nice.

I forgot to add that the 1975 Edition of the MOLO is OK with either lathe as far as the generic tables and operations go.  But that's a Version 9 and is a better match to something like the Atlas 3996.  The 1937 one looks like it might have wire instead of plastic binding.  Check whether it has anything bound into Part 7 - Threading (or Thread Cutting).  If so, does the first printed page mention the Atlas F-Series 10 Inch, the Sears Master Craftsman 12 Inch, or start off with a photo of some threaded parts?  If it doesn't, you need the 10F Threading Supplement and it will match your 10F.  FYI, all versions printed from 1937 to 1954 say "Copyright 1937" on the copyright page.

Robert D.


----------



## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Robin,

When you mentioned that it was "quite close to the document shown on the lathes.co.uk site", it didn't register which document you were referring to.  I'll say that it's close!  Probably came off of the assembly line about 20 minutes later.  And arrived in England on the same ship.

The "T" in "TV36" stands for "Timken".  Plus you can clearly see from the photo that you posted that it has the Timken headstock.  The babbit bearing caps have two hex head caps screws clearly visible.  You might write and tell Tony about it.

Robert D.


----------



## robinj66

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Thanks Robert - I've sent him an email


----------



## cdhknives

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*



> Anyway, your machine was built 1948 or later unless the PO bought and retrofitted the QCGB after 1947 and changed the nameplate. And serial number 003825 on a change gear machine is almost certain to have been on a 10D. That's another area where the database has so few entries as to be statistically inconclusive and possibly incorrect as well. That's one of the reasons that I started this sticky thread - in hopes of collecting enough data to be able to weed out the bogus entries. Sadly, there has been very little response.





cdhknives said:


> I also have the power cross slide of a 10F, but no way of determing (other than probably not with the history I know of) if it was retrofitted.  What else is a dead giveaway between a 10D and 10F?
> 
> The lathe came into my family in the 1960's when my grandfather bought it and my uncle (then a HS student) helped him rebuild it.  The lead screw was badly worn near the headstock, so it was removed and remachined to reverse it end to end...so my leadscrew works in opposite directions and I assume a custom half nut was made.  It works fine otherwise, so long as I work close to the headstock.  Other than that, I understand nothing but much cleanup was done to it, but my uncle is still around and in good shape so I'll ask...
> 
> The history of these is a big part of the fun and value!



Sorry, I lost track of this.  Here is a picture of my QC54.  You can tell better than I if it is a retrofit QCGB.  I can get closeup pics of anything to need to see in more detail.


----------



## outsider347

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Robert;
Are you interested in collecting any data on the C Man 12 in lathes?
If so here is mine
101 29840
sn 000637

I had the spindle apart recently, but failed to note any markings

Regards
ed


----------



## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*

Ed,

Yes.  Thanks.  I think that you have to pull the cups to see the inspection dates.

I've been meaning to change the thread title but keep forgetting.

Robert D.


----------



## wa5cab

Clayton,

I may have said part of this before (I didn't go and try to find our orur original posts) but I'd bet on it's being an original QC54.  

Besides the power cross feed, 3/4" dia. lead screw and two-piece apron, the other differences between a 10D and a 10F are that all 10D's had vertical countershafts originally.  Yours is horizontal.  Most (but not all) 10D's had babbit bearings, not Timken's.  Early 10D's had smaller rectangular symmetrical legs but later ones had the same longer slanted legs as the 10F.  So that isn't much help.  The Quick Change kits did not come with a new nameplate.

Robert D.


----------



## dwl324

wa5cab said:


> I hadn't previously noticed it probably because looking back I see that almost all age related questions the past year have been for 12".  In the combined machine database (408 entries to date) there are only 74 10" entries, a third of which show no serial numbers.  And there is a large jump or blank range in the 10" serial numbers.  They meander up to a little over 8000 and then skip to over 17000.  Plus we only have three supposed bearing dates, one of which does not track with the other two.  Meaning that it is about 13000 smaller than one with almost the same date.
> 
> Anyway, anyone with a 10" who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number (which includes bed length), serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.


Robert,
I have an atlas 10d with 48 inch ways  serial number A3965S  from what I can gather it is a 1936 model.  the gear change chart inside the gear cover is different than anything I could fine on the internet. it is also very small print and hard to read.  I have photographed it with a macro lens and enlarged it, if you need a copy let me know.  I have the early style compound with two verticle studs and nuts that allow the compound to rotate. I need to know if the dovetails on the later model compound are the same as the dovetails on early model so I can update my 10d.
                                                                                                                                                                        thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                              Dennis


----------



## wa5cab

Dennis,

To answer your question first, yes.  The later compound slide will fit the earlier stud type compound swivel.  And the later cross slide and pintle style compound swivel will replace the earlier stud type.  The follow rest is the same part number in the 1935, 1937 and 1945 catalogs.  The part number for the cross feed stop changed from 9-425 to just 425 between 1935 and 1937 but they all say for 9" and 10" so the carriage dovetail did not change.  Likewise, on the compound slide, the 918 parts list shows 9-301 cross slide, 9-302 compound swivel and 9-303 compound slide.  The 10E and 10F parts lists shows 10-301 and 10-302 (the pintle version) but still the 9-303.  So the compound dovetail did not change.

Does your compound have the little hand wheel or the two-handle crank on the compound feed screw?  And are the legs more or less square are they significantly wider than they are deep, with a pronounced lean toward the center of the bed?

Yes, I would like to see the photo of the threading chart.

Incidentally, had your machine been made a day or two later, it would have the pintle style swivel.  That occurred at S/N 3970.


----------



## dgehricke

Robert,
I'm not sure if my lathe was listed on yahoo groups or not, I do remember posting it some where but I don't remember where or when.
So here is the info again. I have an Atlas 10F with Timkin Bearing headstock ( it was originally a Babbit headstock which I still have )
the serial number is H 12768 S and it is located on the outboard way at the end. I have no info from the bearings as there is no need to change them.
could you please send or post a link to the data base that you are putting together for our viewing pleasure.
Thanks
Regards
Wally Gehricke
dgehricke


----------



## MBuechle

Hi Robert, new member here with a recently acquired Atlas 10F.  It's a TH54, serial no. 075455.  The previous owner had changed the bearings and retained the old ones so I was able to get dates from them. They are: 10-9-44 and 11-30-44.  Hope this helps.

Mark Buechle


----------



## wa5cab

Wally,

I didn't have yours before.  I have added it to the local database.  Send me the bed length so that I can fill out the correct model number.  All I can say about the MFG date is that it's one of the earliest 10F's, probably early 1939.

The database I referred to is on Yahoo in the Atlas_Craftsman Group's Database section.  Files and Databases on Yahoo are only accessible to members.  If you don't want to join that group, I will email you a .CSV or .DBF file (your choice).  But first I will have to do an upload to add yours (after I get the bed length) and Mark's.

Mark,

Thanks.  However, I have three entries in the database with supposedly later dates (all 1946) but slightly lower serial numbers.  Could you recheck carefully the first two digits of the serial number and the year on the bearings.  There are several possible explanations (two of the dates are purchase dates, not bearing dates, and we don't know how carefully Atlas adhered to a First-In First-Out practice on bearings).  But as I have the chance to ask, I thought that I would do so (doesn't happen very often).


----------



## dgehricke

Robert,
I thought I included the bed length, another senior moment, anyway the length is 42" 3/8" Thick ways
I am a member of the yahoo group but since they changed the web site I hardly go to it.
Finally a machine tool that I own that is older then me.
Thanks
Wally G
dgehricke


----------



## MBuechle

Robert,

       I have pix of data plate & bearings. Perhaps the S/N starts with an 'O' and not a zero?


----------



## dwl324

wa5cab said:


> I hadn't previously noticed it probably because looking back I see that almost all age related questions the past year have been for 12".  In the combined machine database (408 entries to date) there are only 74 10" entries, a third of which show no serial numbers.  And there is a large jump or blank range in the 10" serial numbers.  They meander up to a little over 8000 and then skip to over 17000.  Plus we only have three supposed bearing dates, one of which does not track with the other two.  Meaning that it is about 13000 smaller than one with almost the same date.
> 
> Anyway, anyone with a 10" who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number (which includes bed length), serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.


----------



## wa5cab

Wally, thanks.

Mark, no, it's definitely a zero.  This isn't the first example we have of a higher serial number with earlier dates than some other machines.  Our (Atlas lathe owners) practice of basing machine date on bearing inspection dates is after all the mercy of Atlas very strictly adhering to a FIFO (First In First Out) inventory practice.  We already know that they only usually did this because we have at least one example where the two bearing dates are nearly a year apart.  So all that we can really prove is that no lathe was ever built before Atlas received its spindle bearings.


----------



## Monte

Craftsman 101.07402 - 12x24 - 42" bed. sn# 1380 S. Unfortunately there are no dates etched on either spindle bearing. I believe this to be the "deluxe" model shown in the 1938 & 39 sears catalog. I has 5/8" lead screw, One piece saddle & apron, no power crossfeed, oval switch plate, & tailstock with oil dipper. I agree with you Robert D. on linked belts. I personally don't care for them in most applications, besides it's not that big of a deal to pull the spindle/ back gear & countershaft to replace the belt on this lathe. It all had to come apart for cleaning & paint anyway. Considering the age of the existing belts It shouldn't be necessary to ever replace a new one.  Thanks for the info & advice,
Monte


----------



## wa5cab

Monte,

It is probably the one shown in the 1939 catalog.  Although it is difficult to know for certain.  The 1940 catalog clearly shows the 101.07403.  So for want of better information I have arbitrarily set the years as:

1937  101.07400
1938  101.07401
1939  101.07402
1940  101.07403

However, there is one maybe discrepancy.  The "non-Deluxe" lathe (probably the 101.07382) in the 1939 catalog shows threading capability of 4 to 80 tpi.  And the writeup on the Deluxe page says "includes all... plus ...", meaning that the supposed 101.07402 also cuts 4 to 80 tpi.  That happens to mean (from other sources well verified) that the change gear set includes two 96T (96 teeth) gears, among other things.  All subsequent models cut 4 to 96 tpi, which means the 64T A-suffix change gear set.  You are quite fortunate that your machine still has its nameplate, as probably 75% of the early and 50% of the later models don't.  Look at the gears that are actually on the lathe.  If one or two of them are 96T, your machine originally came with the early change gear set, which does not agree with the "official" parts list at SearsDirect.com but does agree with the 1939 catalog.  If none of the gears present are 96T, remove one and measure the thickness of the hub.  If it is 3/8" (same as the tooth face width), that is an early gear.  If the hub is 1/2" wide/thick, that is a late A-suffix gear, and all of the gears that originally came with the machine will be the same.  

Note also that during this period, the Sears Power Tools catalogs were most likely printed late in the previous year.  So your machine could have actually been made late in 1938.  It is unfortunate that the spindle bearings have no dates.  That probably means that they were replaced at some point as no date present is rare.

Anyway, when you have time, please tell us what you found with the gears.


----------



## VSAncona

Atlas TH42 with Pick-o-Matic gearbox. Serial #067647. Bearing dates are 4-18-46 and 5-20-46.


----------



## wa5cab

Thanks.


----------



## sirpalman

I have a Craftsman 101.0704 I got last year at a garage sale. 12 x 24 42 bed. Obrien quick change, lots of tooling, very little wear. Completely restored now, paint,vfd with inverter duty motor,tach and pushbutton control.


----------



## sirpalman

sirpalman said:


> I have a Craftsman 101.0704 I got last year at a garage sale. 12 x 24 42 bed. Obrien quick change, lots of tooling, very little wear. Completely restored now, paint,vfd with inverter duty motor,tach and pushbutton control.


Completlly restored except for bearings. I have the bearings and races out, dates are 7-20-45, 7-25-45, and 7-30-45. Serial no. 13931 S. I can not find reasonbly priced class 3 bearings and races. Has anyone used automotive grade with good results? Thanks Jeff


----------



## wa5cab

Jeff,

First, your model number is 101.07403, not 0704.  Thanks for the serial number and dates.  Where did you find the third date?  They don't usually have but two.

The allowable runout of a Class 2 bearing cup and bearing cone is .0015", which is additive so the total allowable runout of the two together is .0030".  That being said, it doesn't have to be that bad.  It just depends upon whether Timken had already met their daily quota for Class 3 that day or not.  But you can't count on it.  And buying two sets of Class 2 intending to use the best combination doesn't guarantee you will be any better off.  However, I would guess that most of the people who have put new bearings into their Atlas lathes have bought the cheapest thing that they could find.  But I never heard anyone report their actual results.  So ye pays yer money an ye takes yer chances.  The original bearings usually last a long time.  Unless there is something that you know is wrong with them, I would put the originals back in, set them up properly per the TB, and see what you get.  If the runout is excessive, I would bite the bullet and buy Class 3 and be done with it for my lifetime.  

And don't forget that you need to rotate the spindle several times in the same direction.  Put the lathe in back gear and on the slowest belt positions and run it for a while with the indicator on the register.

That all being said, I bought a set of what I am sure now are Class 2 or even 4 several years ago before I knew that there was a difference.  When I pull my spindle later this year to replace the spindle belts, I am going to install the new bearings and see what I get.  I'll report here when I do.  But it is going to be several more months at least.


----------



## sirpalman

Robert D,       14276B and 14125A  were 7-30-45, 16284b was 7-25-45, and 16550 was 7-20-45. The small cone and race look ok. but the big race is not smooth[ shiney] and the bearing has some lines on the rollers. The right was filthy. I was getting .007 pushing hard on a test bar but was getting good light cuts. there was a clicking noise on the right bearing and then when flooded with oil it went away. Maybe I will just buy Class 2 for the right side . Thanks Jeff​


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  Thanks for the explanation of the dates.

Do you still have the clicking noise after you removed the spindle and thoroughly cleaned the various parts.


----------



## sirpalman

Its still apart.Ive been looking for hours for a 16284b#3 on line. Nobody has one, minimum time to order is 30 to 40 days. Amazon has a 16150#3 for $281. Maybe I will try your idea an clean and put back together and play around with bearing load before ordering standard bearings.


----------



## wa5cab

Well, that is pretty steep for half of a bearing.  If it was only a matter of 30 to 50% differential, that would be one thing.  But the one that you have a price on is about double a good price for a full set of Class 2.  It will only take a little time to reinstall the spindle and see whether or not the noise goes away, and if it does what the runout is.  As I said before before without knowing what a set of Class 3's might cost, I think it's worth spending the time.Just remember that with proper bearing preload, there should be no radial movement with moderate side load.  And no end float.


----------



## George63

Hello there;
I own an Atlas 10" swing  Model: QC42 Serial N: 1007 Bought it in Laredo TX. about 20 years ago from the son of original ownwer, but he only  gave me the
Lathe owner's manual, no other papers.
Would like to know the aprox manufacture date. (have not taken out the spindle so I don't know the dates on bearings).
Just so you can anotate on your records on the where abouts of the machines, the lathe now "lives" in Mexico.


----------



## wa5cab

George,

We have about a dozen QC42 or QC54 in the database.  And not a single one with a bearing date.  We do have one report of a QC model found with its original shipping Document dated January 1948.  We can conclude from the year on the first Atlas catalog to show the Quick Change models that the first ones were made in 1947.  And we can conclude from the numbers in the small pool compared to the numbers on THnn models made around the same time that unlike with all of the preceding 10" model changes, Atlas started over at 000001 with the serial numbers on the QC.  What we don't have is enough information to really guess at production rate or total production.  

However, with what little we do know, I would guess at some time in 1948 for the birthday of your machine.


----------



## George63

wa5cab said:


> George,
> 
> We have about a dozen QC42 or QC54 in the database.  And not a single one with a bearing date.  We do have one report of a QC model found with its original shipping Document dated January 1948.  We can conclude from the year on the first Atlas catalog to show the Quick Change models that the first ones were made in 1947.  And we can conclude from the numbers in the small pool compared to the numbers on THnn models made around the same time that unlike with all of the preceding 10" model changes, Atlas started over at 000001 with the serial numbers on the QC.  What we don't have is enough information to really guess at production rate or total production.
> 
> However, with what little we do know, I would guess at some time in 1948 for the birthday of your machine.



Thank's a lot for the info. If I ever get to remove the spindle I´ll send you the dates on the bearings.

Gracias, saludos desde Mexico.
George.


----------



## wa5cab

You're welcome.


----------



## timmeh

10F V42, ser# V196668. Only other identification is a brass plaque on the change gear cover with the following,


                                                           AGI 1946

                                                                6203


All painted components appear to be original, nothing that was broken was replaced.
Being about as far from home as the little beasty can get, thats not surprising.
So on that basis i'm assuming that aside from normal wear and tear, that is how it left
the factory.


----------



## wa5cab

Tim,

The brass plate on the change gear cover is most likely something added by the local owner.  Certainly not something that Atlas put on it.
On the serial number, the "V" is OK.  We've had reported a few with either "V" or "H" in that position.  They apparently stand for either Vertical or Horizontal, and refer to the countershaft assembly type.  One of your photos shows a vertical countershaft, so that is all right.  But the serial number has too many digits.  The highest known 10" serial number is under 90000.  The year that the 10" production ceased, the 12" Commercial begain production at Serial Number 100000.  Most likely, the final character, which you show as the numeral "8" is actually the letter "S".  There are many reported examples of this up to serial # 20318.  All such are babbit bearing models, so one theory is that it stood for "Standard".  The only Timken model that we have in that range does not have the "S".

So please recheck the serial number.


----------



## timmeh

Will do, had thought it was an "S" originally, closer inspection seemed to indicate "8".
Hard to see the serial#, very light stamping and discolouration. Tried blocking with fine
wet/dry emery and oil, didn't go too far for fear of losing it alltogether. Time to have
another look.


----------



## timmeh

timmeh said:


> 10F V42, ser# V196668. Only other identification is a brass plaque on the change gear cover with the following,
> 
> 
> AGI 1946
> 
> 6203
> 
> 
> All painted components appear to be original, nothing that was broken was replaced.
> Being about as far from home as the little beasty can get, thats not surprising.
> So on that basis i'm assuming that aside from normal wear and tear, that is how it left
> the factory.


 Confirmed, Ser# is V19666S. Just needed correct lighting angle, suitable amount of squint through sufficient magnification and tongue clamped firmly in the right position!


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  Thanks.  Rough estimate is that it was made early 1940.  If you want to add any more to the record (acquisition cost, where/when/how acquired, accessories, condition, etc.) let me know.


----------



## CluelessNewB

My MFC Mill has a serial number 011604   I don't know much about it.   It did come with a letter from a previous owner requesting a manual from Atlas dated 12/28/1962 and the Atlas reply with letter stating that manufacture of that machine was discontinued "several years ago" and a list of parts still available dated 11/1/1962.


----------



## wa5cab

I assume that you meant that the letter was dated 12/28/62, not the manual that he was looking for.  The mills were discontinued around late 1959.  The last Sears catalog that the mill and shaper appeared in was 1959.


----------



## CluelessNewB

Yes, the letter from a previous owner was dated 12/28/62.


----------



## cdhknives

cdhknives said:


> *Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates*
> 
> I have a range of catalogs with my lathe but the oldest is 1941 so I've concluded it's age is thereabout.  No idea on bearing date, no call to disassemble the headstock to date (thankfully!).  Roller bearings, 10F w/horizontal countershaft.
> 
> QC-54
> 003825



Final vote:

Assembled in 1948.


----------



## wa5cab

Thanks.


----------



## 'Topcraft

Hey Robert, I decided to bring our conversation over here. The serial number on my lathe is -  D2373s  - . It is a 10x36, babbit bearing headstock, old style tool post slide, (not the type with the dovetail post). Someone in the past painted the inside of the bed "machine red" and he rubbed it into the serial#, I don't know if it came from the factory like that but I think it looks pretty cool. It has the normal benchtop style legs, I believe it's vertical shaft, and it is a change gear. It was love at first sight (sigh). Bringing it home made me feel like I was cheating on my wife (LOL). Whoever had this lathe before me had respect for machines. Now it's my turn. Any info I can get on it, I would be grateful. At this point I only assume it's a 1936 10D. there is a plate on the feed direction housing that I believe reads atlas press co, but I would have to double check that. I will try to take some pics in the afternoon tomorrow.


----------



## VSAncona

Atlas 918 Utility lathe with Babbitt bearings -- serial number X453S


----------



## wa5cab

Chuck,

OK.  That is the earliest 10" serial number in the database.  In fact, it is ~2500 lower than the only 10A serial number.  But as it has a "D" prefix to the serial number, it must be a 10D.


----------



## wa5cab

Vince,

Thanks.  That's the first identified Utility and serial number reported.  It isn't known whether or not the 9" and 10" shared serial numbers or not.  From the few examples reported, it could be either way.


----------



## wa5cab

Balance of thread on Topcraft's 10D moved to a new non-sticky thread named "Topcraft's New 10D"


----------



## cdhknives

wa5cab said:


> Chuck,
> 
> OK.  That is the earliest 10" serial number in the database.  In fact, it is ~2500 lower than the only 10A serial number.  But as it has a "D" prefix to the serial number, it must be a 10D.



Really?  My Dad's Babbit bearing, vertical countershaft, 10" has an H prefix.  I didn't think the prefix defined the lathe series...???


----------



## wa5cab

I assume your Dad's machine must be a 10F.  When Atlas came out with the 10F, they changed the Model Number format from four digits and a letter (except on the back geared ones) to one or two letters and two digits.  So 1036 for original early back geared 10x18, 1054 for the original early back geared 10x36, etc., and according to the catalogs, also 1036...1054 for the 10D, 1054A, 1054B, 1054C and 1054E for those stripped-down models.  The serial numbers of 40% of the ten known 10D's in the database have a "D" prefix and about two spaces between it and the numbers.  We have one known to me machine (without back gears or carriage or countershaft) with an "A" prefix which must be a 1048A.  Of the reported 10D's that have a "D" prefix, all are also reported to have an "S" suffix, which we have never figured out.  

The model number syntax for the 10F's was changed to (d)dnn as in V36 (babbit bearings, vertical countershaft, 36" bed), TH54 (Timken bearings, horizontal countershaft, 54" bed), etc.  The syntax for the serial numbers also apparently changed, with the prefix (where reported) being either "V" or "H".  And again, those 10F's with a reported prefix also have a reported "S" suffix (still unknown).

My current assumption is that some10" machines with no reported prefix or  suffix probably have them but the owner didn't key them in for whatever reason.  I also think that around 1940 or 41,  the prefixes and suffixes for the serial numbers were discontinued.


----------



## utterstan

my plate reads 618   011486 how old would that be


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## wa5cab

Stan,

Unfortunately, Atlas did not engrave a date on the spindle bearings used in the 618's.  And unlike the 6" MK2, no one has ever reported finding a casting date cast into any of the 6" cast parts.  So the only way to date one would be to find one with the original invoice (none have been reported) or be or know the original owner and know when the thing was bought that way (one known example from 1941).  We have two or three examples where the current owner has reported or recorded the dates on manuals found with the lathe.  But with no proof as to whether the manuals were original to the lathe.

Clausing has no production records for the Atlas lathes (nor the Clausing ones, for that matter).  They were either lost or destroyed during one of Clausing's many moves.

The best estimate from almost no data is late 1948.  That assumes constant production rates which is unlikely, especially during WW-II.  So say 1945 to 1948.


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## utterstan

thanks I guess I should put it together then lol.so I guess that would be at least 1yr older than me.


----------



## Snell Metalfab - Joe

I have a Craftsman 12" x 36" lathe, the model number is 101.28990 and the serial number is 102963.  My question is, does anyone have any idea the year this was manufactured?  A call to Clausing was of minimal help, they suggested it was 1971-1972.  I am restoring it and after degreasing it, when I looked inside the bed, cast into the back side is  "03-22-1966".  Logic tells me that would be when it was made, however, many 1966 version Atlas/Craftsman lathes look much older than mine (with regard to the gear cover, on/off switch, etc).  I was just curious if anyone had a clue of it's age.  Thanks in advance!!


----------



## wa5cab

Based upon a report in the database that serial # 102826 was bought on 01/16/1974. I would place yours as made in early 1974.  The date in the bed is the casting date.  The Atlas MOLO says that bed castings were seasoned for at least a year before being finish machined.  How much longer they might have been seasoned before machining or how long after that they might have been used, we don't know.  Clausing lost or destroyed all of the Atlas production records.

The earlier machines with the different shaped gear and belt covers were made from 1936 until late 1957.  Your machine is the final version.  The version made from late 1957 until late 1967 are almost the same as yours except that they had the earlier pull-out knob to engage cross-feed, the earlier right lead screw bearing, no slip-clutch on the lead screw, and a few other minor differences.  They also had serial numbers beginning with "00", not "10".

If you should ever have ocassion to pull the spindle, please report any dates found engraved on the spindle bearings.


----------



## Snell Metalfab - Joe

That is a wonderful piece of research, I really appreciate it.  I currently have the head stock completely disassembled but I don't recall seeing any engraving on the bearings, but I'll check. The owner explained that this machine was purchased by him 26 years ago at an estate auction but before he got it unloaded, he found a deal on a South Bend, which is what he REALLY wanted.  The machine sat in the corner of his shop for 20-21 years until he moved it to an OUTSIDE carport.  It sat there until July of 2015 when I purchased it......  It was rusted beyond belief, but in great shape otherwise, if that makes any sense.  What isn't rusted is in 'like new' condition.  I have been methodically restoring it and I'm on "the home stretch".  I have a friend who has a powder coat shop so I have been having him coat everything 'Machinery Gray'.  Between Royal Purple degreaser and Evaporust, we are slowly making progress.  I have it put back together with the exception of the head stock and the gear change box.  We have taken a zillion pictures along this journey and I'll share them when I can.  Thanks again and I'll be sure to check the bearings for dates.


----------



## wa5cab

Thanks.  Compared to the 10 inch and early 12 inch, we have relatively few late 12 inch machines listed in the database.  However, none of the listings show bearing dates.  This could be a coincidence or because either Atlas or Timken quit date marking the bearings.  If your machine does have dates on the bearings, they will be on the one surface of the cups and of the cones that don't touch anything.  So on the cups, the dates would be visible if the dust covers are removed.  If you have the spindle out of your headstock, that should have extracted the right dust cover as the right cone is a light press fit on the spindle and usually brings the cover out with it.  Let us know.


----------



## Snell Metalfab - Joe

Just stopped by my shop and checked, no dates on the bearings.


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## wa5cab

OK.  Thanks.  I was afraid of that.  The latest date that we have in the database is 1951/08/14.  So either Timken or Atlas must have quit doing it in the early 50's.  Possibly because Timken's precision had improved to the point where it was no longer a premium charge to get bearings to whatever Class Atlas required.


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## Snell Metalfab - Joe

Wow, lesson learned the hard way......   the headstock bearings ARE NOT both the same!!   I'm sure most intelligent people would have checked that out prior to ordering them....  however.....   after cleaning them up (they were NASTY), they LOOKED the same so I assumed (and yes, I know the true definition of assumed!) they'd be the same.  And just to show how messed up I am, I bought the right side race and the left side bearing!!  Oh well, just another bump in the road to restoring this baby!


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## wa5cab

Just as an FYI, the two major parts of a tapered roller bearing are called the Cup and the Cone.

The spindle diameter is a little smaller on the left end.


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## Snell Metalfab - Joe

I'm sure this is a silly question but should you "pack" the bearings with grease or are they strictly lubricated by the oilers from above?


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## wa5cab

Well, only slightly.  Short answer is No.  Longer answer is H+*l No.    Seriously, if you pack the bearings with grease, and if some of the grease immediately slings off (which it will), it could plug or block the oil pathway.  And Murphey's Law says that it will, not may.  Install the felt plugs that Atlas added as standard from the mid-sixties and try to remember to "top up" once a day or before every use period.


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## Snell Metalfab - Joe

Very good, then, thank you!  Got my bearing order all straightened out this weekend so all should be good in a few days.


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## TH484BBB

Hi Robert,
New member here. I inherited my Father's Atlas Lathe a while back and am in the process of setting it up for use on small jobs here at the house. It is  Model - TH 48 Serial # 059780. So it would be a Timken and horizontal. Would you know what year it was made? It has a quick change gear box. I believe my father installed it shortly after he bought it. I believe he bought it used in 1953. It has the three jaw,  four jaw, face plate and dog plate. It also had the milling attachment for the cross feed but I gave that to an old and dear friend 15 years ago. It has some wear on the ways on the operator side near the head stock. I don't plan to machine shafts anyway. I am leaving the original paint and just cleaning it. The cross nut had to be replaced and the 5 inch three jaw chuck was replaced with a 6". I now have a 4" Buck chuck I plan to mount on it. I will either make or buy a carriage stop and set it up for collet use.

Thank you,

Bill Maguire


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## wa5cab

Bill,

I have a nicely done shop built 3-position carriage stop that I originally bought to use with my turret tail stock.  Turned out that it fits a 3/8" way (I have a 3996, which has 1/2" ways) plus only two of the three positions were usable because only one of the three stop screws was above the top of the carriage when nominally deselected.  I don't know what lathe it was actually made to work on.  Would work fine as a single position stop on a 3/8" bed Atlas.  $15 plus postage.

Back to your machine and date of manufacture, if you ever have another reason to pull the spindle, both spindle bearings should have dates hand engraved on them.  If you ever do pull them, please report the model number, serial number and both dates here.  The two dates usually do not match.  The current widest spread between the two dates is about 11 months (which could probably taken as proof that Atlas did not practice a strict First In - First Out on their inventory.  The typical spread is about two  to four months.

Calculating between the nearest two bearing dates on machines with serial numbers bracketing yours, your machine would theoretically date to 1945/06/04 (YYYY/MM/DD).  The base assumptions here are two-fold - first that the bearing dates are the manufacturing dates (they obviously aren't as they must be earlier) and a constant production rate (which may not be too far off given that the two bearing dates used are in 1942 and 1946, most of which was during WW-II).  Anyway, taking all of the variables into account, it would probably be safe to say that your machine was made in 1945.

The QCGB didn't come out until the last half of 1947 so your father adding it later agrees with known facts.


----------



## TH484BBB

Robert,

Wow, that was quick. Thank you. I was wondering would I be able to see the dates by taking off the bearing shields? Wait no they would be facing the center, never mind.
As for the QC he could have bought it with it on it in 1953. I'll ask my oldest brother, he may know.
I had no idea this site had so many topics to look into!
The carriage stop sounds like it would fit in with my plans just right. I made a dial indicator mount for it long ago but a positive stop would be great.

Have fun,

Bill


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## wa5cab

Bill.  You're welcome.  And besides the fact that the dates are usually on the large side of the cones, you cannot pull the front shield or the next two without pulling the spindle.  And I doubt that you could pull the rear one without destroying it.  

On the carriage stop, let me make sure that I can still find it first.  And then if you do want it, I'll send you payment options.


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## TH484BBB

Robert,
I'll take the carriage stop. You say it will work on a 3/8" rail, I can make it work.
Thanks again,

Bill


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## wa5cab

On bearing dates, it appears that either Atlas or Timken (whomever actually put them on the bearings) stopped doing that after the mid 50's.  Everyone with a Commercial (either Atlas or Craftsman) who has needed to pull their spindle has reported no dates on the bearings.  The latest reported bearing date is 1951/08/14.  If you find a date, report it of course.  But don't expect any.


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## TH484BBB

Robert,
I sent you payment on my wife's Paypal account.  The picture shows a nicer stop than what I had in my mind's eye.
Thank you,
Bill


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## wa5cab

OK.


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## TH484BBB

Robert,

I would be interest in the collet attachment. I believe I could make the needed link for it to work. 
What's the price? 
I don't seem to be able to answer your "Conversation" you send, is that that because I am a new member?

Thank you,

Bill


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## TH484BBB

Robert,

I just got confirmation from my oldest brother that Dad did by the lathe with the QC already on it and it was probably 1953.

Bill


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## wa5cab

OK on the date.

I'll look into the Conversations problem.  Probably log in as you briefly.

I have $169.00 in in the Atlas 900B Collet Closer (according to my Accounting database).  If you are still interested, I will get all of the pieces together and take some photos.  A PDF of the 2-page owners manual and parts list is in Files under I think Atlas Lathe Accessories, or something close to that.


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## TH484BBB

Hi Robert,
Can one still get 3AT collets? I don't have the 3C collet adaptor. Are the adaptors available any more?
Yes I am interested the price is fine. The photos and PDF would be great so I can see what I need to make for linkage.
If you want we could just use our email accounts to correspond. 
I got the lathe mounted on its new bench with new belts. The head stock belt is a twist lock so I didn't have to pull the spindle and fired it up, works good.

Thank you,
Bill


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## wa5cab

Bill,

The 3AT aren't as common anymore as 3C but can still be found pretty frequently used on eBay.  Plus at least Bass Tool here in Houston still carries one (West German) brand new.  New they average about $21 each.  Batches of used ones on eBay are usually less expensive, except maybe square and hex.  It took me a while but except for a 1/64" one, I finally accumulated a complete set from 1/32" to 1/2" by 64ths.  In the course of doing that, I ended up with extras which I have been selling for $10 each.

I think that I ended up with two or three extra 3AT adapters as well.  I'll have to check what I have in them but will let you have one at my cost, whatever it was.  I don't have an extra 3C adapter.  And I also do not have an extra spindle nose thread protector, which you definitely should use.  Tomorrow, I'll try to gather up the 900B parts and send you a photo(s) and also the 2-page manual.

When I get time, I'm going to move our non-serial number related comments down into the main area.  And maybe we'll get the PM's working as well.  I just sent you a test message.


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## JerryHFreeman

Here's another for your database. I have a QC54, serial number 000423. From what I can tell reading this board, it must have been made in late 1947. Does that make sense? (Lightly used, in excellent condition. I've had it about ten years.)


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## TH484BBB

Robert,
The PM setup is working now.
Thanks,

Bill


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## wa5cab

Jerry,

Yes.  The first catalog that the QCGB appeared in is dated 1947.  As Atlas rarely dated anything any closer than that, I just assume, absent any other information on the subject, that anything that shows up in a catalog that just gives the year was available by January of that year.  At a distance of 50 to 80 years, it doesn't introduce much potential error.


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## JPMacG

Craftsman Model 101-27430,  S/N 12L-035633


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  Did it come with any clues as to when it was made or bought?


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## JPMacG

I wish I knew more.    It appears in the 1953 Sears catalog but not in the 1951 catalog nor in the 1966 catalog.   So, some time between 1952 and 1965.   That's the best I can do.


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## wa5cab

OK.  I can do better than that.  The QCGB first appeared in the 1951 Craftsman Power Tools catalog along with the 101.27430, 101.27440 and the older change gear 101.07403.  They (those three models) last appeared in the 1957 catalog, after which they were replaced by the first version of the 1/2" bed 12" machines.  Given the catalog print cycles, the catalogs were probably done the previous Summer or Fall so the QC box was probably in production by late 1950.  The latest bearing date that anyone has reported is from 1951.  If you ever have occasion to pull the spindle, please report any dates on the bearings or if there are no dates. 

The highest 3/8" bed 12" serial number that we have is 041832.  Making a few assumptions that may or may not be totally valid, I get early June, 1954.


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## JPMacG

Thank you Robert.  That is good information.


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## 24th acr

Hello,
This is my first post so I figured I should put my Lathe on the list. I just got this not long ago from a friend that had only used it as a wood lathe for about 40 years. Atlas H42 10F SN#025068


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  That puts it made around mid 1941 best guess.  Unfortunately, the babbit bearings have no dates on them.


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## JPMacG

Here is a tidbit of information, for whatever it is worth.

I disassembled and cleaned my 3-jaw scroll chuck today.    I purchased the lathe from a neighbor 20 years ago and the chuck was included. The chuck may have come with the lathe when the lathe was new.   Stamped on the rear surface of the chuck  is "Atlas BB-435"  and "12-51".


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## wa5cab

That is relatively consistent with the serial number.


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## Rodney Young

I have just acquired an Atlas lathe and milling machine in the last couple of months and am in the process of rebuilding them right now.
 The lathe is a 612 with a 24 inch bed. serial number stamped in the bed is M295, no model plate on it. The milling machine is a model MF serial number 001699. Don't have any history on them but other than being extremely dirty when I got them both are in prettygood shape and will be operable with new bearings and a belt or two. With such low serial numbers I am expecting that they are both quite old as in 40s? Didn't get them from the same place so no history between them. Interesting thing is that I ordered new bearings for the lathe then when I pulled the ones from the mill they are the same! Pretty convienient that with the same MT2 taper lots of tooling will work in both.
  Rodney


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## westsailpat

Hey Rodney , does your 618 lathe have bushings or roller bearings in the head stock ?
Also I think you will enjoy this .
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman6inchmk1/


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## Rodney Young

westsailpat said:


> Hey Rodney , does your 618 lathe have bushings or roller bearings in the head stock ?
> Also I think you will enjoy this .
> http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman6inchmk1/


Hi westsailpat,
  My machine is the Atlas 612 and has roller bearings. (haven't built anything with it yet but turned down some bolts to see how it works). The site you sent the link for has a lot of great info. I'm hoping to find the aproximate build dates for these machines so I know when to celebrate thier 100th birthday!


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## wa5cab

Pat,

Even though it is a 6x18, it is never correct to refer to the 101.07301 as a 618.  618 is an Atlas model number - only.  In the 1930's Atlas sometimes used the lathe size figures to generate their lathe model number (they also made a 918 for example).  The two 6" lathes sold under the Atlas badge in the early years were 618 (which is a 6x18) and 612 (which is a 6x12).  

Rodney,

Atlas started making the 6" (both 612 and 618) in 1937.  The 618 remained in production until 1972, when it was replaced by the 3950.  The last catalog that the 612 appears in is the 1941 General Catalog.  They apparently did not print a catalog in 1942.  And the 612 is missing from L43 (the 1943 catalog on lathes) and all subsequent catalogs.  So I have tentatively set the production life of the 612 as 1937 to 1942.  

In the Atlas database, we have 54 618's listed, of which we have serial numbers for 45.  We have absolutely zero 612's.  Until now.  The bed lengths on the 10" and 12" don't appear to have affected serial number assignments (next machine off the line got the next serial number).  So probably the length of the 6" didn't either.  Unfortunately, the spindle bearings from the 6" don't ever appear to have been dated as the 9", 10" and 12" were up through about 1957.  So dating the 6" is an iffy proposition.  However, 618 serial number 004073 in the database has a note from the current owner saying that his Grandfather purchased it new from Atlas in 1941.  So probably your 612 was made in 1937.

On your mill, according to the serial number, it is actually an MFA.  Check and confirm that the spindle pulley has three steps instead of four.  As far as I can tell from the catalogs, Atlas didn't start calling the 12-speed machines M1A, MFA and MHA until they came out with the 8-speed M1B, MFB and MHB.  Based on the catalogs, I have the production years for the MFA as 1942 to 1944.  The first MFA serial number is supposedly 001345 so yours was probably made in 1942.


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## Rodney Young

wa5cab said:


> Pat,
> 
> Even though it is a 6x18, it is never correct to refer to the 101.07301 as a 618.  618 is an Atlas model number - only.  In the 1930's Atlas sometimes used the lathe size figures to generate their lathe model number (they also made a 918 for example).  The two 6" lathes sold under the Atlas badge in the early years were 618 (which is a 6x18) and 612 (which is a 6x12).
> 
> Rodney,
> 
> Atlas started making the 6" (both 612 and 618) in 1937.  The 618 remained in production until 1972, when it was replaced by the 3950.  The last catalog that the 612 appears in is the 1941 General Catalog.  They apparently did not print a catalog in 1942.  And the 612 is missing from L43 (the 1943 catalog on lathes) and all subsequent catalogs.  So I have tentatively set the production life of the 612 as 1937 to 1942.
> 
> In the Atlas database, we have 54 618's listed, of which we have serial numbers for 45.  We have absolutely zero 612's.  Until now.  The bed lengths on the 10" and 12" don't appear to have affected serial number assignments (next machine off the line got the next serial number).  So probably the length of the 6" didn't either.  Unfortunately, the spindle bearings from the 6" don't ever appear to have been dated as the 9", 10" and 12" were up through about 1957.  So dating the 6" is an iffy proposition.  However, 618 serial number 004073 in the database has a note from the current owner saying that his Grandfather purchased it new from Atlas in 1941.  So probably your 612 was made in 1937.
> 
> On your mill, according to the serial number, it is actually an MFA.  Check and confirm that the spindle pulley has three steps instead of four.  As far as I can tell from the catalogs, Atlas didn't start calling the 12-speed machines M1A, MFA and MHA until they came out with the 8-speed M1B, MFB and MHB.  Based on the catalogs, I have the production years for the MFA as 1942 to 1944.  The first MFA serial number is supposedly 001345 so yours was probably made in 1942.



Hi Robert,
  Thanks for all the information, this is fantastic to be able to get some history on these things!!
  My milling machine has the 3 step pulley.
  Rodney


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## Steve Shannon

Robert,
The other day I posted a picture of the data plate from my Atlas mill, SN 725, model MF.  I have no idea when it was purchased new; I wish I did.  I'll ask the person I got it from just in case he knows more , but he did tell me that he was not the original owner.


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## westsailpat

My bad Rodney , yes 612 not 618 .


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## wa5cab

Steve,

We don't have many mills in the database.  And although a few that were in the database when I took it over had dates (or at least a year), none of them are substantiated (they don't say where they got the date from).  However, we do have a little information from which to guess a year.  The first Atlas catalog to show the mill was No. 41 1941.  The first to show the MFA was M43 1943.  The first to show the MFB was No. 45 1945.  And the first to show the MFC was M48 1948.  There were AFAIK no catalogs printed in 1944, 1946 or 1947 (except for L47 Lathes).  So there is a fair chance of an error here but until better data surfaces I am dating the first of each of the four models as 01 January of the year they first appeared in a catalog and the last of the previous model as 31 December of the previous year.  In addition, Atlas Mill Bulletin MMB-5 gives the serial number ranges of the MF, MFA and MFB.  From these two criteria we can roughly date the MF, MFA and MFB if we assume a constant production rate.  From all of this, we can guess that your mill was made near the end of 1941.


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## Steve Shannon

Thanks!


 Steve Shannon


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## Rodney Young

westsailpat said:


> My bad Rodney , yes 612 not 618 . Is this the one ?   http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/page4.html


Hi Westsailpat,


  This is my lathe with the tooling that came with it. The one you linked to is a 12 inch swing, mine is the little guy, 6 inch swing. It appears to have been built/sold in 1936.
 It also came with the atlas table/bench but the bench is for a larger model so the lathe only takes up about 2/3 of the bench

   Rodney


----------



## Reuben Bailey

I have a 9x36 Atlas. Serial # is 2693. Nothing on dates.   

It had been sitting for quite a few years in a friend's barn. They had been given it by a neighbor. everything moves as appropriate. A couple of the hand wheel knobs have broken off, and the gear teeth of the carriage hand wheel have stripped off.


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## wa5cab

You're lucky (except that the parts are not cheap) in that the parts are mostly still available, mainly because the ones that you mention were carried over to the later machines.  The cast gear case, however, is not plentiful as it was only used up through the 10D and 101.07402.  Gear case for the later models has a different part number.

Is there a nameplate anywhere?  It would probably be on the back of the bed behind where the tailstock usually sits.  What is the length of the front way?  Are there three V-belts running between the spindle and the shaft assembly above it?  Or only one.


----------



## Reuben Bailey

Hi Robert.
No name plate that I can see, and no apparent holes where one was attached.

Only one belt on the headstock, though it has the pulleys for 3 to set up the compound drive.

Inside of the back way has "954" cast into it. 

Feet are the "splayed" type. Change gear cover is formed sheet metal.

I will post a link to some pictures as soon as I have enough posts on here. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Reuben Bailey

An initial overview. More pictures at http://fairwindsfarm.org/Pictures/


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## Reuben Bailey

View attachment 212544


"954"on the inside of the bed way rail...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wa5cab

OK.  I didn't know whether you knew what a compound drive was.  It is an Atlas 954, which is a 9x36.  From the splayed feet, it dates from 1932 to 1934.  I'll post a catalog photo and some text in the thread that you started.


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## ArborRing

wa5cab said:


> I hadn't previously noticed it probably because looking back I see that almost all age related questions the past year have been for 12".  In the combined machine database (408 entries to date) there are only 74 10" entries, a third of which show no serial numbers.  And there is a large jump or blank range in the 10" serial numbers.  They meander up to a little over 8000 and then skip to over 17000.  Plus we only have three supposed bearing dates, one of which does not track with the other two.  Meaning that it is about 13000 smaller than one with almost the same date.
> 
> Anyway, anyone with a 10" who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number (which includes bed length), serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.




I have just joined and trust a quick addition to your Atlas data will be appropriate.  I have just found a H54  SN: 051391 has fallen into the back of my Van.   Its history and condition are as yet to be determined.  Only tidbit thus far suggests it was used for black powder rifle boring at some time in is life.  I have not opened it up yet but suspect it has original Babbit bearings. Here is the Name Plate.   I am looking forward to working with all of you in refurbishing this American Iron.
Thanks, 
ArborRing


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## RHD

wa5cab said:


> I hadn't previously noticed it probably because looking back I see that almost all age related questions the past year have been for 12".  In the combined machine database (408 entries to date) there are only 74 10" entries, a third of which show no serial numbers.  And there is a large jump or blank range in the 10" serial numbers.  They meander up to a little over 8000 and then skip to over 17000.  Plus we only have three supposed bearing dates, one of which does not track with the other two.  Meaning that it is about 13000 smaller than one with almost the same date.
> 
> Anyway, anyone with a 10" who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number (which includes bed length), serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.




Robert
I have recently received my grand father's lathe that he bought new in the late 40's.I was investigating a bump in the spindle, and decided to pull the spindle to replace a frayed belt. the rear bearing looked no worse for wear, but the front bearing had broken its cage in a couple of places and fell apart as it came out. The front bearing was marked 11/16/44 and the rear was marked 1/26/45. I have included a picture of the data plate, this is a 10" machine. I hope this info will help. I am new here and really enjoy the sharing of information, as it makes this place feel like home. Thanks for all you do.
Bob
Unfortunately the photo is upside down and i don't know how to change it.
View attachment 128586


----------



## wa5cab

Well, that worked - sorta.  Just ignore the elephant in the room.  

I think that yours may be the first post I've seen either here or on Yahoo (other than due to rust or corrosion) where the reported condition of either spindle bearing was such that it clearly needed to be replaced.  Did any bits of metal come out with the bearing that might not have belonged to the cage?  

The vertical countershaft is relatively rare on 10F models.  And in fact was discontinued between the time your machine was built and when the 1947 catalog came out.  Do you have the factory cast iron leg stand with it?


----------



## RHD

wa5cab said:


> Well, that worked - sorta.  Just ignore the elephant in the room.
> 
> I think that yours may be the first post I've seen either here or on Yahoo (other than due to rust or corrosion) where the reported condition of either spindle bearing was such that it clearly needed to be replaced.  Did any bits of metal come out with the bearing that might not have belonged to the cage?
> 
> The vertical countershaft is relatively rare on 10F models.  And in fact was discontinued between the time your machine was built and when the 1947 catalog came out.  Do you have the factory cast iron leg stand with it?





wa5cab said:


> Well, that worked - sorta.  Just ignore the elephant in the room.
> 
> I think that yours may be the first post I've seen either here or on Yahoo (other than due to rust or corrosion) where the reported condition of either spindle bearing was such that it clearly needed to be replaced.  Did any bits of metal come out with the bearing that might not have belonged to the cage?
> 
> The vertical countershaft is relatively rare on 10F models.  And in fact was discontinued between the time your machine was built and when the 1947 catalog came out.  Do you have the factory cast iron leg stand with it?



The bearing looked in reasonably good shape. The cage had broken and released the rollers. I must admit I was tempted to TIG the cage back together and drive on but my OCD would not allow that. the spindle was clean and only had a few signs that the set screws had been tightened in one other position. I did not find anything that would lead me to believe the bearing was about to fail. When my Grand Father bought the machine as I understand money was tight and he built a stout work bench to set the machine on, so sadly he didn't purchasethe stand. Presently I have it set up on a large desk and am thinking of building a suitable stand. My Smithy Granite is Next to it on its Steel desk, so I have a wall of lathes in my small shop.
Bob


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## wa5cab

OK.  No telling why it broke, then.  I agree with not trying to fix it.  That I would consider false economy.

The reason (or at least one reason) that I asked about the factory stand is that I have wondered how the motor is mounted (officially) on a 10" with vertical countershaft.  In all of the dozens of Atlas catalogs I have, I don't think there is even one photo of a rear view of a  lathe.  It was only this year that someone posted photos showing how it was done with the horizontal countershaft.  The one and only drawing Clausing still has pertaining to the floor stands is of the wood top board.for the 10".


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## RHD

I can post some pictures when i get a chance to go out to the shop. We have been working 12/14 hour days since the 20th of April and I haven't had the energy to go out there lately. I did order the new bearings from Motion Industries today, but I didn't spec a class 3 bearing as they are stupid expensive. I will try to get out there in the next few days as we are back up and running, and only working 10 hr days this week.
Bob


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## wa5cab

So long as they are Timken, the consensus seems to be that unmarked should be fine today.  Plus if you go to the Timken site and are able to locate what they say about bearing classes, you will see that they claim not to sell anything worse than Class 3, anyway.  They actually use letters, C, B, A and AA, where C = ABMA Class 3.  They don't list a C;ass equivalent to 2 or 4.


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## RHD

wa5cab said:


> So long as they are Timken, the consensus seems to be that unmarked should be fine today.  Plus if you go to the Timken site and are able to locate what they say about bearing classes, you will see that they claim not to sell anything worse than Class 3, anyway.  They actually use letters, C, B, A and AA, where C = ABMA Class 3.  They don't list a C;ass equivalent to 2 or 4.


The bearings made it in and I managed to escape today and tomorrow. after I cleaned up all the parts i reassembled the head stock, only to realize that the new belt was still laying with the counter shaft. After much nashing of teeth and words your mother spanked you for I took it back apart, and put the belt in its proper place. Other than that it went back very smoothly. Let it run in for a while and am pleased with the results. I took some photos of the motor mounts from different angles, if there is any thing else you would like to see, i'll try to get it.






and as usual they are upside down....wont say what i'm thinking.


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## wa5cab

Maybe your camera thinks that you live in Australia.  Your initials do stand for Right Hand Drive, right?


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## RHD

I don't think so more like Rabid Hunting Dog, when i saved them to  my drive from my iphone, they are oriented correctly, so who knows. Anyway she is back together and quiet as a mouse.


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## wa5cab

I don't know the details and I forgot to ever call Nikon and talk to them about it.  But I discovered some incompatibility between a later piece of Nikon photo editing software and both Irfanview and most browsers at the time.  A photo rotated by the newer Nikon software was still displayed unrotated by the other viewers.  I solved the immediate problem by not using the newer software.  Then my wife "retired" from eBay and our every Sunday afternoon photo-shoot sessions ceased and I never pursued the question.  I did look into some online comparisons between JPEG and JPEG2000 but there was never any mention of a rotation problem.  So I don't know what's causing it.  All I can say is that if the JPG was created by a real camera, the problem doesn't seem to occur on this site.  And that it doesn't always occur if the JPG was created by a not-so-smart-phone.


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## txpilgrim

Hi Robert, I am John and I am a Toolaholic!
I am new to H-M and just bought an Atlas lathe.
I believe it's  10F H36 serial number 13211S  babbitt bearings  (took bright lights, loupe, magnifying glass, chalk and steel wool to Finally give you the proper serial number).
Please let me know if there is any additional info you would like. I like many am in the midst of cleanup/ overhauling my lathe.

John


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## wa5cab

John,

Thanks.  That is all of the information required for the record to be potentially useful.  If you wish, you could add acquisition cost, what else you got with it for that money, and when, where and how you acquired it.  Plus any other comments you care to make up to about 700 characters.


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## wa5cab

Actually, there are two other bits of information that I'm starting to add to the database for Atlas 10" only.  And these are if you remove the headstock from the bed, the part number cast into the bottom of the headstock.  And whether the headstock is removed or not, information on how the motor switch is mounted and what the front of the headstock looks like.  I just moved my recent post on that subject up into the Sticky area so I won't repeat it here.


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## Rob B

wa5cab said:


> I hadn't previously noticed it probably because looking back I see that almost all age related questions the past year have been for 12".  In the combined machine database (408 entries to date) there are only 74 10" entries, a third of which show no serial numbers.  And there is a large jump or blank range in the 10" serial numbers.  They meander up to a little over 8000 and then skip to over 17000.  Plus we only have three supposed bearing dates, one of which does not track with the other two.  Meaning that it is about 13000 smaller than one with almost the same date.
> 
> Anyway, anyone with a 10" who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number (which includes bed length), serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.


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## Rob B

Atlas 10F lathe, model H-36, S.N. 039975, 
Babit bearings.


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  Probably made in late 1942.


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## txpilgrim

wa5cab said:


> Thanks.  Probably made in late 1942.


Thanks Robert, I paid $500 (Craigslist) drove about 80 miles each way for it. Came with some indexable tooling, knurling tools, a nice live center, a good chuck, a couple of lathe dogs and some braze tips. The previous owner kept the gears well greased but the rest not much lubing. On the trip home, the lathe tipped over in the truck shattering gears. So, I'm slowly repairing it. I gotten a manual now just need to go to work on it.  
Aside - I grew up in Spring Branch near Long Point and Wirt Rd.
Thanks
John


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## wa5cab

John,

Sorry to hear about the accident on the way home.

Your old house is probably about 4 miles ESE of mine.  I'm about 300 yards SE of the intersection of Hammerly and BW8.  When you were here, that was where West Belt dead-ended into Hammerly.


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## M3 New

Ever since I was a small boy, I remember this lathe on a work bench in my Grandads shop in a small town in north east Colorado.   My Uncle got it from him when he passed away,     When my Uncle recently passed,  he left it to me.    I had not seen it in many years until I went to pick  it up from my Aunt.    When I was in trade school to learn to be a machinist, my Uncle had asked me to make a part for it,  the cross slide, which is still on it some forty years later.   
 It is a Atlas 10 inch,  48 inch bed lathe.   It has the plain head stock, with the babbitt spindle bearings.  It has the square light switch type on / off switch.   I have been looking for its serial number while taking it apart to clean it.   I was finally able to locate its serial number, D2107 on the apron side of the bed and a date of  1-28-36 on the other way of the machine.     My lathe has a POWER-KRAFT motor on it, similar in most respects to the photos of the Atlas motor I`ve seen pictures of.    There is one tag the is missing and appears to have been a large decal
Is it possible that the date is the date of manufacture ?    Did a chain of stores called Montgomery Wards sell Atlas Lathes ?    POWER-KRAFT was their brand of tools.    Also,    Can any one tell me what a very lightly built 4 jaw chuck would be used for ?   It is about half the weight of the other 4 jaw and has what looks very much like a starter ring gear on it on the back of the chuck. The teeth of the ring gear are above the OD of the chuck.    I will post photos of the numbers on the bed of the lathe and of the chuck when I can get my iPad and iPhone to communicate again with each other again.
I hope that my lathe ID will help the data base.


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## wa5cab

No, Wards sold the Logan 9" before Logan was Logan.  And then later the 10".  Your motor just came from Wards.  Even right up to the end, Atlas didn't include a motor with any of their lathes.  They sold motors but you bought them separately.  Or used one off of Granny's old wringer washing machine.  

I've got to get to bed.  I'll get back to your lathe in the morning (later this morning).  In the meantime, confirm that the ON/OFF switch is in a box attached to the front of the headstock.  And that the lead screw diameter is 5/8" and there is no power cross feed.


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## M3 New




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## M3 New

M3 New said:


> View attachment 134308


Grandmas washer was gas powered till it was converted.   I have that engine as well !
Some how I posted 2 of same photo.    No power feed.    Lathe has a 5/8 lead screw.     The photos of the chuck I question are there too.  Not sure if ring gear was added or not.  If it was it is very well done.


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## wa5cab

OK.  Electricity came to my grandparent's house during WW-II.  By the time that I was old enough to notice (maybe 1948), both of the washing machines in the wash house were electric.

Confirm that the upper compound swivel is attached to the cross slide with two studs.  ON/OFF switch is mounted in commercial sheet metal outlet/switch box which is attached to the fabricated inner part of the change gear guard adjacent to the threading chart.  This is the lowest serial number yet reported and the first reported to have a date stamped into the bed.  Where is it stamped relative to the serial number?  And the serial number does not have an "S" stamped to the right of the serial number.  The next higher serial number (2373 S) does.

I don't know about the chuck.  When you said "ring gear", I assumed either hypoid or spiral bevel.  But it's a spur gear, like a flywheel ring gear.  My only guess is that it was a part of a rotary table, maybe home-built or limited production.

Everything that you have described or shown is consistent with what we think that we know about the early 10D.  The date could have been stamped on the assembly line.  If so, it wasn't done with the same set of number stamps.  But it wasn't done with the same set of stamps.  Note the differences between the "1" and the "2".  Maybe one person stamped the S/N and another one stamped the date.

I'll try to delete the extraneous photo.


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## M3 New

The washer had long since been changed to electricity,  but I was given the engine when I was in my early teens in the '70s.    Mom tells stories of the engine though.
What you wrote about the switch box it correct and its mounting location.   I had never found a lathe like it in any photo or sketch until I went to a Atlas site in the UK and scrolled through it reading.   There was one there on that site very close to mine.   
On the switch box decal, it says that the lathe was patented in 1933.   Not until I was cleaning the ways did I find the numbers on the bed.    Standing in front of the lathe,   Looking straight down.    The serial number is closest to the  outside of the way toward you.   The date is on the far side of the other way.  The tail stock can slide basically between the two numbers
There is no other letter or number before the "D" stamped in the bed.    The bed is very rough and have had to run a very fine honing stone on it to remove high spots and dings in the bed.   So I am certain there is no other letter
In the photo is the cross slide and the compound are attached with studs.   Don't know if it is the original compound but I made the cross slide in trade school.   My uncle had said something broke and he had tried to find the parts to fix it.  But he asked me to make them instead.
Sorry for showing only parts.  But am cleaning it and making sure all of the oil holes are open.  Most I have found are plugged
I love reading this thread and what you are doing piecing a history of Atlas products together.


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## M3 New

Sorry I nearly forgot,     The gear on the chuck is a starter ring gear.  On the jaw side of the chuck is the lead in for the starter pinion gear.     I wasn't sure anyone would know what it was for.   But was hopeful.    Thought about indexing as you said or some obscure attachment for it. .


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## wa5cab

MN,

I finally figured out that the weird looking whatsit behind most of what you have photographed is a bucket or something similar used to set the subject object on.  Earlier, my mind kept trying to make it a part of the object!

Everything you have shown seems to be consistent with photographs in a 1936 catalog.  So we finally appear to have one hard date on a 10D.

The letter "S", when it appears, is stamped to the right of the serial number, with a space between it and the number.


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## M3 New

Went out and looked again.  There is no "S" on the bed after the serial number. 
Yeah ,   I had the parts on a milk can to photograph them


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## wa5cab

Right.  Your photograph showed no "S".


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## birdman1

I have two Atlas lathes. The older one's serial no. is D1215 no s pat. date on guard and square house type on off switch is May 16 1933. It has the zamak cross slide the compound has been brazed back together. I'm going to retrofit to the newer post type cross slide way too much flex in the zamak one. the newer one is ser. V 11603 S. The history on it is my better half's grandfather purchased it new and used it in his auto repair shop in north Mo. until he closed it and went to work at Mac. in Stl. in the late 50's or early 60's. This is the lathe that I learned what not to do on! Will try to post picture's when I get the how too's of that figured out.


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  The serial number on the older one is the lowest number so far reported.  Additional information needed is:
Bed Length.
Confirm that it has babbit spindle bearings.
Confirm that it has a Vertical countershaft like the newer one.
Confirm that it has a fabricated instead of cast change gear guard.
Confirm that name plate with model number is missing, or if present, give information printed thereon.

Confirm (or mention discrepancies) that it looks like the photo below from 1935 Catalog No. 15.  Including shape of the tailstock (the top part is cylindrical instead of larger in the middle than at either end).




FWIW, I would guess that it was made in 1935.  According to catalog photos, the same switch box had been used on earlier machines, including the 9".

Also see next post.


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## wa5cab

Need the same information for Ser. V 11603 S.  Except it is probably a 10F with ON-OFF switch mounted in headstock.  So say whether the removable plate that the switch is actually mounted on is oval or rectangular.


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## birdman1

Ok, Bed length is 42" babbit headstock vertical countershaft  fabricated guard(missing the end plate) name plate not found on back of bed frame number cast into near inside bed frame is 942 it has the older round taiulstock and Zamak crossslide.   The 11603 S has a oval switch plate. On the end of the near rail a square is stamped into it(not top or back  it is on the end. It is a 10x54. I have 2 other craftsman lathes. the 1st one is a12x36 serial 9856   S craftsman 101 07383 tumbler reverser and one piece saddle with standard post on crossslide 3/4 lead screw. The switch hole is rectangular. The other one is in storage at a friends house I believe it's a 12x54 I don't recall all of the details Hopefully I can get it home in the near future. Thank You for all of your help and information. Otis


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  942 (for 24 inches between centers), 9-1 (18"), 948 (30") and 954 (36") were the bed casting part numbers apparently all the way from 1933 through 1957.  The part numbers 942, 942A and 942B were the finished bed part numbers.  The only difference appears to have been the holes drilled and tapped to attach the legs of which there were three styles on Atlas 9" and 10" plus one additional on Craftsman 9".  So they must all have used the same casting.

FYI, conventionally, nnXmm is the shorthand way of describing the size of a lathe.  "nn" would be the swing (6", 10", 12", etc.).  For the Atlas and/or Atlas/Craftsman 9", 10" and early 12" lathes, mm would be 18, 24, 30 or 36.  For whatever reason, Atlas used the bed length rather than the distance between centers in their 6" and 10" part numbers.  With the 9". they actually did it both ways.  Both the 918 and the 936 are 9X18 machines.  So when you say that the 101.07383 is a 12X36 do you mean that it has a 54" bed?  Or it is really a 12X18 and has a 36" bed?  There isn't any 12X54.  It would have had to have a 72" long bed.

Also, the 101.07383 originally shipped with a 5/8" diameter lead screw and a one piece carriage saddle and apron casting, same as on the 10D.  The 10F and the 101.07403 had 3/4" lead screws and two-piece carriage castings.  Could you re-check the lead screw diameter?  A number of people have replaced the original 5/8" lead screws and one-piece carriages on 101.07383 with 3/4" and two-piece in order to get power cross feed.  But I don't recall anyone reporting changing only the lead screw.  I guess that it would work, so long as they also changed the half nuts and right lead screw bearing.  The half nut guide is the same in both cases.

And do you mean that switch hole is rectangular or switch plate is rectangular?


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## Joncooey

Hi Robert D., I have a 10" Atlas TH48 with a QuickChange Gearbox; S/N: 044495.  I replaced the Timken Bearings when I got it but saved them because of the dates inscribed on them.  The first is 12-11-42 and the second is 1-2-43.  Seems to be a Chrismas/New Year's machine.
Jonathan.


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  We have a cluster of three machines with bearing dates between 23 DEC 42 and 02 JAN 43.  Interesting thing is that just between those three is proof that Atlas did not practice FIFO (First In, First Out) control on their bearing inventory.


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## birdman1

Robert D. I'm sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. I listed the lathe's as bed length as that seemed to be the most prevalent way to identify atlas lathes. Ok the D1215 has babbit bearing's, vertical countershaft, steel fabricated change gear guard (painted black as are the two headstock spindle guards - original paint) No evidence that it ever had a name plate attached (no rivet holes, will look closer as I clean it. It looks exactly like the picture you posted. 
Round tailstock (no oil dipper hole). Behind the switch box the hole is round. The paint on the bed is in remarkably good shape after cleaning with carb. cleaner spayed on a rag. I repainted the newer crosslide and tailstock Ford/Ferguson 9n-2n gray it is a really close match. I used Van Sickle brand paint, in my area it is available from Orschelns farm and home. It is available in rattle cans quarts and gallons also a hardener is available. the only drawback is the slow dry time so I use a automotive type medium reducer it works much better. On the V11603 S the plate and the boss are oval. Babbitt bearings, vertical countershaft, cast changegear guard. I've not found the nameplate not able to look for rivet holes due to location of lathe. Will be removing it from the bench in the near future. The 101.07383 has a 3/4 leadscew a one piece apron - saddle casting, the saddle lock is on the right side of the casting. The hole in the headstock is a rectangle. The previous owner installed a different saddle traverse control mounted to the left of the apron. Sad thing is he kept the gear and crank handle to operate it with. Will hopefully figure out my camera so I can post some pics. I sincerely thank you for all of your help and being on this site.  Otis


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  The model number of the 10D was 1042.  The nameplate was probably on the back of the bed, about 2/3 of the way down from the headstock.  Rough guess on its year of manufacture is 1935.

The 10F (model # V42) was made before mid-1942 because of the oval switch plate.  Best guess just going by the serial # is late 1938 or 1939.

I would guess that the 101.07383 was made in 1943.  It's catalog number was 2071, which specifies the bed length.  It wasn't until about 1950 with the 101.27430 and 27440 that the Sears model numbers also pinned down the bed length.  As the machine was not made in a transition year, the lead screw was probably changed by a PO.  Doesn't hurt anything.  The right lead screw bearing carrier will also not be original.


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## ndnchf

I'll add mine to the list. It's a 101.07403, Sn 18717. It is a 12"x24" (between centers). It has the original 1/3hp motor and iron leg stand. I recently added a QCGB to it. I've never needed to replace the spindle bearings, so don't know the dates. I bought it over 30 years ago from a very old machine shop that closed down. I've made 100s of parts on it over the years - it's like an old friend.
Hope this helps,
Steve


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  Yours was probably made in 1946.  S/N 018810 has the right spindle bearing dated 06/20/1946.


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## ndnchf

Thank you, that's great to know. Are there any other details you'd like for the database?


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## wa5cab

Well, for generic use, I think you've covered almost all of the bases.  One question that does come up on the Craftsman models is original paint color, if the machine didn't appear to have been repainted before you acquired it.  The only other thing that might be of any interest would have been the purchase price, and a list of significant accessories that came for that price (chucks, milling attachment, steady rest, etc.).  But from 30 odd years ago, probably only of academic interest.  You are free to add any other details that you wish.  But the main use that the database serves is answering the perennial question of "when was my machine made?".


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## ndnchf

Mine still has the original gray paint, although a bit grubby and probably darkened a bit over the years.  It came with a r and 4 jaw chuck, milling attachment and a few dogs. Not much else. But I've acquired quite a few accessories over the years. Thanks.


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## wa5cab

OK.  That could be useful information.  We knew that Craftsman lathes in the 1930's and maybe early 40's came in various shades of green and blue.  And that in the 1950's, they were the same shade of gray as the Atlas 10" machines.  Which except for the MK2 6" continued through end of production in 1981.  But there was no real info as to when the color change occurred.  So this pushes the date back to 1946 or earlier.


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## ndnchf

Glad I could help in some small way. Here is it. a photo of it.


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## wa5cab

OK.  You were lucky to find one with all of the belt covers.  More often than not, those along with the nameplates are missing.


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## mephits

I'd be happy to add my late-model Craftsman 12" lathe, model # 101.28940 (Atlas 3981), sometimes called the "Commercial" line. Serial # is 008046. The code cast into the inner face of the bed is 058-016. I've got no reason to take the spindle out, so I don't know if it has any bearing codes. Unfortunately, I know very little of it's history. I bought it off Craigslist about a month ago. The previous owner bought it a couple of years ago at an estate auction intending to use it in automotive resoration, but never got around to it. It sat in his garage the whole time, gaining a light coating of rust and a rather odd rattle-can paint job. Beyond that, I know nothing else. I'm tearing it down a bit and making sure everything looks good right now, and intend to get it to it's final location and into use in the new year.

Oh, and it has all the belt covers, the horizontal shaft and everything else, I just have all that stripped off at the moment.


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  Don't make any special effort on the bearings as current evidence indicates that the practice of engraving an inspection date on the spindle bearings ceased around 1957.  No one has ever reported there being any dates on any of the 1/2" bed machines.  Specifically, 101.28940 S/N 8012 does not have any.

058-016 is both the casting number and the finished part number of the late 12x36's 54" bed.

Your serial number is the highest yet reported of the first version of the 1/2" bed version.  If I had to guess at the date made, I would guess 1966 or 1967 as we don't know exactly how many were made.  However, we have 22 reported examples of the final version (with slip clutch and lever operator for the power cross feed) versus only seven  of the first version like yours.


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## mephits

wa5cab said:


> Thanks.  Don't make any special effort on the bearings as current evidence indicates that the practice of engraving an inspection date on the spindle bearings ceased around 1957.  No one has ever reported there being any dates on any of the 1/2" bed machines.  Specifically, 101.28940 S/N 8012 does not have any.
> 
> 058-016 is both the casting number and the finished part number of the late 12x36's 54" bed.
> 
> Your serial number is the highest yet reported of the first version of the 1/2" bed version.  If I had to guess at the date made, I would guess 1966 or 1967 as we don't know exactly how many were made.  However, we have 22 reported examples of the final version (with slip clutch and lever operator for the power cross feed) versus only seven  of the first version like yours.



Thanks for the info! Please let me know if there's anything else I can tell you about my lathe.


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## wa5cab

What else people usually report, which is sometimes useful to someone, is price paid and besides the lathe itself, what else came with it of any significance (in other words, it isn't necessary to list in any detail things like end mills and drill bits or common lathe turning tools.  But if a lot of new ones came with it, that's worth something so making it a better deal.


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## mephits

OK, here goes! My lathe came with a 6" three-jaw chuck, a lightly rusted 8" four-jaw chuck, an Atlas cross-slide milling attachment (fairly rusted and sans jaw blocks, mounting bolts and dovetail pegs), a beat-up live center and tailstock jacob's chuck, the original lantern toolpost, one LH tool holder, a box with probably two dozen ground but largely unused HSS tools (probably pre-made sets sold by Sears), and a very nice, very heavily built welded steel table that was obviously custom made for the lathe. I think the table weighs nearly what the lathe does! Plus, the previous owner had installed a brand-new 1/3 HP reversing motor with all new wiring and switches, done by an actual electrician so it's not the dangerous nightmare you often find on old power tools. All together, I paid $1000.


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  I'll add that to the record.  I guess that it's about time I did another update to the machine databases on Yahoo and here in Downloads.


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## mephits

Apologies, I have one correction to my above list of equipment. The motor is a 1/2 HP, not a 1/3 HP.


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## O-brian

I have an old 10-D that I have rebuilt the only number I can find is on the right end of the bed. DT  8549  S   There are three other letters at an angle above this but not clearly readable.  The bed is 54" long.  I have a change gear set that runs from 96 tooth to 20 tooth.  It looked pretty sad when I bought it for $300.  It works ok but the operator needs help.

Dennis B.


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## wa5cab

Hurley,

OK, thanks.  I'll make the correction.

Dennis,

Your serial number is 8549.  The presence of the 96T change gear confirms that it is earlier than the 10F (which had 64T as its largest gear) and also that it is not a 10A, B, C, or E (which has no lead screw or change gears (although for some strange reason it shipped with the half nuts installed).  From what few examples that that we have, the "D" prefix means that is is a 10D..  The "T" probably means that it has Timken tapered roller bearings for the spindle instead of the more common babbit bearings.  But please confirm that.  The "S" suffix no one has come up with a theory on and most likely all of the people who knew what it meant are long since deceased.  All that we know is that it first appeared between S/N 002107 and 002347.  And that it was also stamped on Craftsman 12" machine beds from the same period.In any case, your model number is probably 1054T.


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## O-brian

Hurley,

Thanks for the quick reply.  I can confirm the 10D as all of the castings have 10D + a part #.  Also noted the Timken bearings when I had it torn down to restore.  It has been modified by addition of a Craftsman 1/2 hp motor with a forward/reverse switch.  I have been a member for some time but have not posted before.  when I figure out how to attach photos I will send a before and after photos.

Dennis B.  WB7ALP


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## wa5cab

OK.  For the record, the presence of parts with part numbers beginning with 10D is a necessary but not sufficient requirement for a machine to be a 10D.  My 12" Atlas 3996 still has a few 10D parts on it.  The presence of a 5/8" diameter lead screw, the absence of power cross feed, the presence of two studs to lock the compound swivel, a one-piece carriage and a Serial Number below 3970 all together with the 10D parts would be sufficient.  There were a few 10F parts that were backwards compatible and if any of those parts had to be replaced on any 10" after the change, that's what the factory would have shipped.  So if you found a 10F part on it, that would just mean that someone had to replace it.

EDIT:  Actually, your machine serial number is already well above 3970 so it will have come with the later part number cross slide and compound swivel (which have just 10- numbers).  That change predated the 10D.


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## lakebom184

wa5cab said:


> I hadn't previously noticed it probably because looking back I see that almost all age related questions the past year have been for 12".  In the combined machine database (408 entries to date) there are only 74 10" entries, a third of which show no serial numbers.  And there is a large jump or blank range in the 10" serial numbers.  They meander up to a little over 8000 and then skip to over 17000.  Plus we only have three supposed bearing dates, one of which does not track with the other two.  Meaning that it is about 13000 smaller than one with almost the same date.
> 
> Anyway, anyone with a 10" who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number (which includes bed length), serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.


I can find no model # on the lathe but the serial # is D5626S. It has a 5/8 lead screw, babbit brgs., vertical motor mount and a 54" bed.
                                                                                                                                                                                Lake


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  It is a 10D, model number 1054, and Serial Number 005626.  We've seen enough examples to confirm that the D stamped before the serial number does mean 10D.  And as I've written before, no one seems to know what the "S" suffix means.  It also appeared for a while on the Craftsman 12" machines.  It wasn't on the first few thousand machines and seems to have disappeared around 1945,

All of the 10D and earlier 10" originally had vertical countershaft assemblies.  The horizontal countershaft came out with the first 10F, although the vertical was for a while still available as a special order option.


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## TH484BBB

Hi Robert,

My friend is getting a Sears Roebuck 12" lathe with a 36" bed. The plate on the back side of the bed has model number 101 . 07401.
Any idea as to what year it might be or closed to?
I sent you a conversation also. 

Thank you,

Bill Maguire


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## wa5cab

The 101.07401 was made for about one year from late 1937 through most of 1938.  After which it was replaced by the 101.07402 which was also made for about one year.  The main difference between the 07401 and 07402 was the change in Change Gear hub length from 3/8" to 1/2".  For rough dating, call it 1938.


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## TH484BBB

I looks younger than my 1945. I thought maybe from the fifties.

Thank you,

Bill Maguire


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## TH484BBB

Robert,

I checked with a mirror and light and removed front clamp. No casting number found but nice virgin gray paint. The on/off switch is a rectangular hole in the casting with 2 - 3/16" holes 1/4" down from the top lip at each boss. Below in the center is a recessed "B" cast in. The end of the back way has an "S" on its side stamped in. The bed casting has "948" behind the front way about in the middle of the bed. 

I hope some of this is helpful for your data base.

Bill


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## wa5cab

OK.  Thanks.  The "948" is the casting number and part of the part number, depending upon what lathe model it was to be used on.  But it means that the overall length of the ways is 48".  So the 101.07401 built with it would be a 12x30 and the finished bed part number would be 948C.  If you find the serial number on top of the front way near the tailstock end, let me know what it is.  I'm still trying to figure out whether each model's S/N started at 0001 or the numbers were cumulative over all four models.


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## TH484BBB

Robert,

I'm sorry. The info I sent you belongs to my 10"  TH48 lathe not the 12" 101 . 07401.  The 12" has a 36" bed.
I got the PDF. Thank you. Wow, if you could get the drawings for the needed parts that would be a great help. If not I could improvise to get the same needed action.  As for the spindle gear, I swung the gear guard out of the way to get a look. I had a set screwed collar threaded against it. Does part of the attachment thread to the spindle? I believe it would have to thus the counter bore into the back side of the gear. No big deal, once I see how it goes together.

Bill


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## wa5cab

Bill,

OK.  10" and not 12".

Yes.  You loosen the set screws. remove the threaded collar, and screw the 900B onto the spindle in its place.  Instructions are in the PDF.


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## MTodd

Howdy Y'all. I recently just acquired a Craftsman 101.07403 lathe and in the process of tearing it down for cleaning, repair and restoration (who knows how long it has sat unused). The bed is stamped "12702        S" on the far right side, front way. On the bearing housing nearest the chuck, the date "9-20-43" is stamped. 

I haven't progressed far enough to see if the rear bearing is stamped. I received this lathe for free as a neighbor was closing his business (a family business that had been run since the 1910's) and this lathe had clearly been neglected and was destined for a landfill. It's not 100% complete and came with a small box of "parts" and "accessories." I've been able to research most of it and have a good idea of what I'm missing and what most of the pieces are . I'm sure I'll be posting a few topics asking for help with identification of a few things. 

Thanks,

Matt


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## wa5cab

Matt,

Welcome aboard.  I entered it into the equipment database.  What is the bed length (choices are 36, 42, 48 or 54 inches).  From the serial number, I would have estimated it as dating to mid 1945.  If you get a date off of the left bearing, please post it here.

What part of Houston are you in?  I'm on the west side of Spring Branch, near BW8 and Hammerly Blvd.


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## MTodd

wa5cab said:


> Matt,
> 
> Welcome aboard.  I entered it into the equipment database.  What is the bed length (choices are 36, 42, 48 or 54 inches).  From the serial number, I would have estimated it as dating to mid 1945.  If you get a date off of the left bearing, please post it here.
> 
> What part of Houston are you in?  I'm on the west side of Spring Branch, near BW8 and Hammerly Blvd.




Robert D (wa5cab),

The bed measures at 42". I should be able to get the other bearing date within a few days.  The whole machine is being completely torn down to clean, then it'll get media blasted before getting powder coated. I'm doing it in stages (legs and chip pan, then bed, then headstock, etc.) so the process is a little time consuming.

And I live a few blocks from Minutemaid Stadium on the east end of downtown.

Once I decide upon an image hosting site, I'll probably start a "build thread." This is my first lathe and first venture into machining (though I've been around them a little here and there) and I got a box of "parts" along with the machine. There's a few things that I've yet to identify and a few things that need replaced (such as a missing headstock cover and a missing bull gear pin). I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions along the way and I look forward to contributing to this forum in any way I can.


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## wa5cab

OK.  That's probably 10 or 12 miles away.  Not too bad except at rush hour.


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## Jtsmith0272

I just purchased a Craftsman 6" with the model and serial #'s pictured.  I don't know how old it is or when it was purchased.  The guy I bought it from got it from a guy who got it from another guy, etc.  The model and serial are 101 27440 and serial 12L 040548.  At this point that is all I know.   It only came with 2 jaws, guy said he took it apart to clean the chuck and lost it somehow and never found it.  Its also missing the gear for the quick change gear box on the side so I still have a few parts to look for.


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  I'll add it to the database.  I answered your other post in some detail.


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## MTodd

Robert,

I finally got a chance to resume work on my lathe restoration for a little bit today. I found the rear headstock bearing date. 

Craftsman 101.07403, Serial #12702 S
Front/Right bearing date: 9/20/43
Rear/Left bearing date: 10/25/44

Also to note, there's a "3" engraved on the rear bearing in addition to the date. Does that bear any significance?

I was also happy that after about a total of 4 hours and roughly 1/2 can of PB Blaster, I finally managed to completely disassemble the tail stock. The quill was frozen in the bore. I'd wager to say that this lathe hasn't been used in 25-30 years. 

Hopefully this information helps with the database.

-Matt


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  Looks like you are making progress.

We've known for a long time that Atlas made no particular attempt to practice FIFO (First In First Out) on their spindle bearing inventory.  So for dating purposes, all that we can really say is that any particular lathe could not have been made any earlier than the later of the two bearing dates. And our sample of Atlas 10F and Craftsman 12"  machines with known bearing dates is pretty slim.  Only about 15% have the dates reported.  But if one sorts the 12" list on serial number (which we have to assume they didn't play games with), both of your bearing dates are out of sequence.  My guess is that your machine wasn't made until the Spring of 1945, and at that time someone had been told to look for and flush out old inventory.

On the "3", there have been a few other reports.  One lathe was reported with a "3" engraved on both cups and both cones.  The only guess that I can think of is  that it referred to the ANSI-ABMA bearing class, which (for no known reason) from worst to best runs 4, 2, 3, 0, 00.  

In ads (where anything like that was mentioned), Atlas and Sears always claimed 0.001" accuracy (whatever you take that to actually mean).  Worst case would have to be +/- 0.001", but it could mean 0.001" TIR.  In either case, it would require Class 3 or better bearings.  The tolerance on the Assembled Bearing Radial Runout for Class 2 is 0.0015" and for Class 3 is 0.0003".


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## Diesel Doctor

I would like to add two serial numbers to the database. My Atlas 10D model H54 is serial D3735S and was I told upon purchase that it was a 1936-37 vintage.  This cannot be confirmed by any documentation. The second is my Atlas TH54 serial # 077023 with a date on the head stock bearings of 8/20/46.  Thank you!


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## gdgears

I’m new to the forum, as well as machining. I was looking through this post to determine how old my lathe is, and figured you could use my information as well.
I have an atlas 10x36 Th42 serial number 072501 I’m in the process of restoring. The casting mark on the bed is 942. I paid $700

It came with:

·        A bunch of old HHS and brazed carbide tooling
·        Original lantern tool post (I replaced with a wedge tool holder)
·        The original steady rest
·        Two face plates and some dogs
·        A Jacobs chuck for the tail stock, and two centers
·        The original 3 jaw chuck, and all the drive gears

It has the original 1/3 hp motor (though I’m pretty sure it needs a new capacitor). The spindle has roller bearings, and the hole behind the switch is square.


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## wa5cab

GD (please set up your signature),

Thanks.  I'll add you and your machine to the machine database.  

Your lathe from what I can see in the three photos looks pretty good.  FYI, it is a 10x24, not 10x36.  The "42" in the TH42 model number and in the 942 bed casting and part number means 42" bed length.  The headstock takes up about 12" and the tailstock about 6" so on an Atlas 9", 10" or 12" lathe, bed length minus 18 is the approximate distance between centers.  In the rest of the model number, "T" means Timken bearings on the spindle (blank or no letter would mean Babbit bearings).  "H" means Horizontal countershaft ("V" would mean Vertical).  The only thing that I see wrong is the link belt on the spindle.  The correct V-belt Industry standard number is 4L410.

If your motor is slow to start but does eventually, the culprit is probably the Start capacitor.  If it won't start at all without manually pulling or twisting, it could be the capacitor and it could be the centrifugal switch.  

In DOWNLOADS (read instructions for use in the Sticky area at the top of this Forum), you will find the latest version of the Parts Manual, the Atlas Technical Bulletin on the 10" Timken headstock, and some other useful information.  

You should also acquire a copy of the Atlas "Manual of Lathe Operation and Machinists Tables".  Published from 1937 through today (but the last Edition number was , there were 33 editions, the first 15 of which aren't numbered, but say just say "Copyright 1937" on the copyright page.  The one that you want will have plastic binding.  Chapter 7 will be bound in (not a loose supplement) and cover the Atlas F-Series 10".  There will be no price on the Copyright page.  And the lubrication photograph on page 6 (un-numbered, it follows page 5) shows a 10F with horizontal countershaft and rectangular switch plate.  Unless someone here has an extra, best source will be eBay.  But most eBay sellers don't know anything about what they are selling and seldom show photos of the important pages.  You will have to write them and ask.


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## wa5cab

Diesel Doctor said:


> I would like to add two serial numbers to the database. My Atlas 10D model H54 is serial D3735S and was I told upon purchase that it was a 1936-37 vintage.  This cannot be confirmed by any documentation. The second is my Atlas TH54 serial # 077023 with a date on the head stock bearings of 8/20/46.  Thank you!



DD, sorry that this reply is late.  Thanks for the two serial numbers.  003735 is the earliest 10" serial number yet reported.  

However, there seems to be a couple of discrepancies with the 10D.  The model number using one or two letters plus two digits came out with the 10F.  For a 54" bed 10D, the model number would be 1054.  And at least according to catalogs of the period, the horizontal countershaft came out with the first 10F's.  If your 10D actually has a horizontal countershaft, it probably isn't original to the machine.  According to catalogs and what other data we have, the horizontal countershaft didn't first appear for another two years and somewhere around 5800 machines.

Can you confirm that your 10D still has the stud mounted compound swivel instead of the pintle style?


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## Diesel Doctor

The 10D has a pintle style compound. Thanks!


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## wa5cab

OK.  Then assuming that it still has its original bed, it must have been updated.  Several catalogs say that the pintle style compound and milling attachments started at serial number 3970.  While we are at it, confirm that it has a 5/8" diameter lead screw and no power cross feed.


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## Diesel Doctor

Yes,  5/8"  lead screw and no power cross feed. I realize due to the age, there could have been many changes made from the as built options. Is the 1936-37 time frame correct age-wise?


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## wa5cab

OK.  Then all stock except cross slide and countershaft assembly.  And both of those could have been bought within 2 or 3 years from Atlas.

I would guess 1936.  Based on the pre-war Atlas catalogs, I have the 10F pegged for the latter part of 1938.  The earliest reported 10F serial number is V 009552 S.  And the currently last reported 10D serial number is D 008635 S.  I forgot to ask one other question.  Is your 10D's Change Gear Guard fabricated or cast?  Probably the latter as the part number was 10-28A, so it replaced the fabricated one before the 10D appeared.


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## Diesel Doctor

Change gear cover is cast.


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## wa5cab

OK.  So everything is consistent for a 10D of that S/N except that the cross slide and compound swivel have been updated.  That apparently wasn't uncommon.  Atlas may have done an update kit in the late 30's.


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## Diesel Doctor

Thanks for the information Bob. It's interesting that my 10D is the oldest on your list so far. For being 80+ years old it's in fantastic shape. The ways on the bed are perfect without marks or gouges, and show no wear. There are no repaired castings or other signs of abuse. It must have been somebody's pride and joy for a long time and had excellent care. I plan to do the same!


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## wa5cab

Yes, that little wear is quite unusual in a machine that old.


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## NCpatrol

New member here.  I picked up my 3rd Atlas/Craftsman lathe over the weekend and thought I'd post details of the collection.

My first machine I picked up about 5-6 months ago came from an auction.  I'd owned a couple small lathes over the years but always sold them before moving to save the hassle.  I wanted to get in to machining again and found this one at an online auction and fell in love with it.  Admittedly, I got caught up in the auction and paid a little too much for it, but it was turnkey and ready to go and I don't regret it.

It's a TH54 and doesn't have the serial number on the end like my other machines.  The only number I've found is "TH16274 S" stamped in to far end of the front way.  I haven't had a reason to pull the spindle yet, so no dates at this point.

It's kind of a "resto-mod" machine.  The PO owns a small shop near Atlanta and did a full restoration of it along with adding some goodies - like DROs on the X, Y and tailstock and DC drive and motor on the lead screw.  Also came with a QC tool post a quite a few holders and extra tooling.

Sadly, I was using it last night cutting some threads and managed to let the smoke out of the drum switch.  It had been a little finicky since I got it and it finally died on me.  Upon disassembly I found two of the contact tabs were damaged and actually broke off as I opened it.  The other points were a little rough but could be cleaned up.   I'm hoping I can find or make replacement tabs to fix it.  I quickly learned from searching ebay that these reversing drum switches are incredibly expensive!


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## NCpatrol

The same weekend that the above machine was arriving at the freight terminal, I found this TH48 on CL ans struck a deal.  The PO had bought it 20+ years ago, moved it around several times but never set it up or run it.  It came with a milling attachment and draw bar and some other goodies, which was the main reason I bought it.   I also like that it had an original wood stand, which I have yet to find another one like it.  It was pretty rusty and crusty and I decided to do a full strip down and restoration  on it.  I'm about 90% done and just need to install the counter shaft and motor and wire it up.  The serial on this one is 059761.  Sadly I didn't know to look for dates on the bearings when I had the spindle out.  It is Timken bearing machine.


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## NCpatrol

And finally, this is the 12x54  101.28910 I picked up over the weekend.  Serial number is 106558.  I had to drive 8 hours round trip to Norfolk, VA to pick it up.   The PO used to do machine work in one of the ship yards and this was his personal machine at home.  It's in exceptionally good shape.  Very tight and the ways are flawless.  Only notable damage so far is a busted tooth on 16 side of the 16/32 banjo gear.   It also looks like the counter shaft end bearing support was replaced with a homemade unit, but it actually looks better than the original!   This one also came with a milling attachment (with original jaw plates!), quite a bit of tooling, a huge QC post, Starrrett and other domestic mics, a Starrett indicator, a whole pile of MT drill bits and reamers, a 60's era craftsman tap and die set and about 140+ lbs of brass and copper round stock, 150+ lbs of stainless, tool steel and other misc. steel stock.

I'm debating if I'm just going to set this one up and run it or if I want to do at least a partial tear-down and clean it up a bit.   I did have to cover it in Fluid Film for the ride home as it started to rain and I was hauling it on an open trailer.  But the goop did it's job and protected it...now I just need to clean it all off!

The reamer set that came with it has a 1939 date on it.  Not sure if that's a good indication of the lathe's date or not.


----------



## wa5cab

NCpatrol said:


> It's a TH54 and doesn't have the serial number on the end like my other machines.  The only number I've found is "TH16274 S" stamped in to far end of the front way.  I haven't had a reason to pull the spindle yet, so no dates at this point.
> 
> It's kind of a "resto-mod" machine.  The PO owns a small shop near Atlanta and did a full restoration of it along with adding some goodies - like DROs on the X, Y and tailstock and DC drive and motor on the lead screw.  Also came with a QC tool post a quite a few holders and extra tooling.



Up until the mid 1950's, all Atlas built lathes had the machine serial number stamped into the top of the right end of the front way.  In the first few years, there was also a "V", "H", "TV" or "TH" prefix.  "V" and "H" indicate that the machint was originally sold with a Vertical or a Horizontal countershaft.  If that letter was preceded by a "T", the lathe had Timken spindle bearings.  If not, it had babbit ones.  In about the same period, both Atlas and Craftsman lathe serial numbers had or usually had an "S" suffix.  No one still alive seems to know what the "S" means.  Earlier, the prefix was "D" or "TD" or "E".  And before that "A", "B". "C" or nothing.  "Nothing" meant the complete 16-speed screw cutting lathe.  "A", "B", "C" or "E" were models missing certain things.  "D" was the 10D, which had replaced the "Nothing".

Probably made late 1939 or 1940.

I'll comment that I wouldn't attempt to cut threads with a DC motor driving the lead screw.  They may look OK and may ever work with standard height nuts.  But there is no practical way to guarantee the pitch.


----------



## wa5cab

NCpatrol said:


> The same weekend that the above machine was arriving at the freight terminal, I found this TH48 on CL ans struck a deal.  The PO had bought it 20+ years ago, moved it around several times but never set it up or run it.  It came with a milling attachment and draw bar and some other goodies, which was the main reason I bought it.   I also like that it had an original wood stand, which I have yet to find another one like it.  It was pretty rusty and crusty and I decided to do a full strip down and restoration  on it.  I'm about 90% done and just need to install the counter shaft and motor and wire it up.  The serial on this one is 059761.  Sadly I didn't know to look for dates on the bearings when I had the spindle out.  It is Timken bearing machine.



I've seen the hardwood cabinet in catalogs but I think this is the first lathe one that I've seen.  I think that this is also the first 10F that I've seen with nameplate and serial number on the right end.  Or at least the first reported.  The hardwood cabinets were only in the 1943 and 1945 catalogs. Which agrees with the serial number which probably dates from 1945.  None of the catalog photos of complete lathes are at a good angle for showing the right end of the bed.  But none of those that are close seem to show any nameplate.  I'll post a question in the regular section.


----------



## wa5cab

NCpatrol said:


> And finally, this is the 12x54  101.28910 I picked up over the weekend.  Serial number is 106558.  I had to drive 8 hours round trip to Norfolk, VA to pick it up.   The PO used to do machine work in one of the ship yards and this was his personal machine at home.  It's in exceptionally good shape.  Very tight and the ways are flawless.  Only notable damage so far is a busted tooth on 16 side of the 16/32 banjo gear.   It also looks like the counter shaft end bearing support was replaced with a homemade unit, but it actually looks better than the original!   This one also came with a milling attachment (with original jaw plates!), quite a bit of tooling, a huge QC post, Starrrett and other domestic mics, a Starrett indicator, a whole pile of MT drill bits and reamers, a 60's era craftsman tap and die set and about 140+ lbs of brass and copper round stock, 150+ lbs of stainless, tool steel and other misc. steel stock.
> 
> I'm debating if I'm just going to set this one up and run it or if I want to do at least a partial tear-down and clean it up a bit.   I did have to cover it in Fluid Film for the ride home as it started to rain and I was hauling it on an open trailer.  But the goop did it's job and protected it...now I just need to clean it all off!
> 
> The reamer set that came with it has a 1939 date on it.  Not sure if that's a good indication of the lathe's date or not.



The immediate predecessor to this one came out in late 1957.  There is no dating them from dates on the bearings because some time around 1955, Atlas (or Timken - we aren't actually certain who did it) quit engraving the dates.  But in any case, although a lot of parts carried over from the 10F and 101.27430/440, a lot of parts are different.  And even more so after 1967 when your model first appeared.  On the first version of your 12", the lead screw and power cross feed actuator assembly was the same as on the 10F and equivalent Craftsmen 12".  Including the right bearing.  In 1967, the actuator was improved with the lever replacing the rotating knob.  The right bearing was redesigned with ball thrust bearings and not intended to be the sacrificial piece in a crash.  Because a slip clutch was added at the left end of the lead screw.  If you ever decide that you can only keep one of the three, this is the one.  

The models beginning in late 1967 had serial numbers that began at 100000 (or maybe 100001).  Yours was probably made in 1974.


----------



## NCpatrol

wa5cab said:


> Up until the mid 1950's, all Atlas built lathes had the machine serial number stamped into the top of the right end of the front way.  In the first few years, there was also a "V", "H", "TV" or "TH" prefix.  "V" and "H" indicate that the machint was originally sold with a Vertical or a Horizontal countershaft.  If that letter was preceded by a "T", the lathe had Timken spindle bearings.  If not, it had babbit ones.  In about the same period, both Atlas and Craftsman lathe serial numbers had or usually had an "S" suffix.  No one still alive seems to know what the "S" means.  Earlier, the prefix was "D" or "TD" or "E".  And before that "A", "B". "C" or nothing.  "Nothing" meant the complete 16-speed screw cutting lathe.  "A", "B", "C" or "E" were models missing certain things.  "D" was the 10D, which had replaced the "Nothing".
> 
> Probably made late 1939 or 1940.
> 
> I'll comment that I wouldn't attempt to cut threads with a DC motor driving the lead screw.  They may look OK and may ever work with standard height nuts.  But there is no practical way to guarantee the pitch.



I figured this one was the oldest of the 3 but hadn't narrowed down the dates yet.   It is in remarkably good condition for a 70+ year-old machine.  The PO did quite a bit of work restoring it.

I can't imagine how someone would thread with motor driven screw, but I guess if you were going slow enough it would be possible.    I just love it for the fact that I can use it for cutting and then engage the gears for threading.  No need to mess with change gears when it's time to start threading.   It's also great being able to change the feed speed on the fly.  I can make one rough pass at higher speed and then turn the knob for a finishing pass without stopping the machine.   It also saves wear on those delicate gears.  I'm probably going to fit something similar on to the 12".



wa5cab said:


> I've seen the hardwood cabinet in catalogs but I think this is the first lathe one that I've seen.  I think that this is also the first 10F that I've seen with nameplate and serial number on the right end.  Or at least the first reported.  The hardwood cabinets were only in the 1943 and 1945 catalogs. Which agrees with the serial number which probably dates from 1945.  None of the catalog photos of complete lathes are at a good angle for showing the right end of the bed.  But none of those that are close seem to show any nameplate.  I'll post a question in the regular section.



In all my searches to date, I haven't found another picture of this cabinet.  It appears to be maple.  The side panels were pretty water damaged and I ended up replacing them, but it's otherwise solid.  There's a little bit of water staining on the legs, but they're not rotten or anything.  Obviously there was a front door panel that's mostly broken off.  I'd be tempted to make a replacement if I had an idea of what it was supposed to look like.  Any chance you have one of those catalog pics you can share.




wa5cab said:


> The immediate predecessor to this one came out in late 1957.  There is no dating them from dates on the bearings because some time around 1955, Atlas (or Timken - we aren't actually certain who did it) quit engraving the dates.  But in any case, although a lot of parts carried over from the 10F and 101.27430/440, a lot of parts are different.  And even more so after 1967 when your model first appeared.  On the first version of your 12", the lead screw and power cross feed actuator assembly was the same as on the 10F and equivalent Craftsmen 12".  Including the right bearing.  In 1967, the actuator was improved with the lever replacing the rotating knob.  The right bearing was redesigned with ball thrust bearings and not intended to be the sacrificial piece in a crash.  Because a slip clutch was added at the left end of the lead screw.  If you ever decide that you can only keep one of the three, this is the one.
> 
> The models beginning in late 1967 had serial numbers that began at 100000 (or maybe 100001).  Yours was probably made in 1974.



That matches up to the time frame the PO had it.   The PO was in pretty rough shape health-wise and I bought it from his wife.    She said he had bought it from the original owner about 30 years ago.  

I do plan to keep this one.  I'll probably outfit it similar the the TH54 above with DROs and a drive motor on the lead screw.  


More than likely the TH48 is going to be sold once I get it fully operational.  As much as I like the restoration and the table, I really don't need 3 of these things.   Eventually I'll sell the TH54 too, but I've got too much money tied up in it and I feel like I need to run it for a while!


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  I didn't know that you also had the change gears for threading.  You had mentioned earlier that you were threading when the drum switch failed and I assumed that you were driving the lead screw with the motor.  

I just uploaded the two page flyer on the hardwood cabinets to DOWNLOADS.  It should be top of the list at the moment but as soon as someone uploads some more files, it will move down the list.  It is actually in the Catalogs category/folder under Atlas/Craftsman/AA.  Atlas obviously didn't know much about selling furniture.  In none of the catalogs where the cabinet appears is there a photo of it with either drop-down door or pull-out drawer open.  Yours is missing the drawer.  Front of drawer is identical to door.


----------



## NCpatrol

That's pretty cool.   I have the remnants of what I guess was a fold-down door and apparently there was a drawer to the right.   I'll have to look closer to see if any of the drawer slides remain for me to try to reproduce it.  I believe it's all solid maple.

And yeah, the TH54 came with the full set of change gears.   Interesting too, it also came with this "80% complete" homemade QCGB.  I haven't had time to try to assemble it and see what's left to complete, but I know the PO had a friend with the same machine and actually did complete the QCGB and has it operational.   I have a binder that came with the lathe that has a bunch of documentation and with it was the magazine article from waaay back that had the plans for the gear box.


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## wa5cab

The catalog entries all say that the stands were maple.  But as I said, not even the two-page flyer on only the hardwood stands showed any details.  The single photo that's in the L43 and 1945 catalogs is the same as the one in the brochure that I uploaded.  So no help there.

The QCGB looks interesting.  Does the magazine article show a cover over it?


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## NCpatrol

Yeah, the po actually had already made the cover. I'll have to take some more pics this weekend.  He did a great job on it...all engraved on his cnc mill.  Has all the thread and feed info like an original gear box cover plate.  I may try to scan the article and plans for it.


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## wa5cab

OK.  While you still have it, you might sorta compare using the home-brew box with using the one on the Craftsman.  Does the home brew one have a tumbler for reversing the feed or does it continue to use the original reverse box.  The Craftsman (and all of the other Atlas built boxes, of which there were a total of six counting the Pic-O-Matic) have a tumbler.


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## NCpatrol

I'm fairly certain it uses the original reversing box.     I actually found the article on another site.  I'm positive this is the same exact file that the hard copy that came with my machine was printed from.
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/51/7158.pdf

It appears that you actually use the full set of original Atlas change gears on a new lead screw shaft extension.   All the changing is done through the 7 added 32-tooth gears.


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## NCpatrol

wa5cab said:


> I've seen the hardwood cabinet in catalogs but I think this is the first lathe one that I've seen.  I think that this is also the first 10F that I've seen with nameplate and serial number on the right end.  Or at least the first reported.  The hardwood cabinets were only in the 1943 and 1945 catalogs. Which agrees with the serial number which probably dates from 1945.  None of the catalog photos of complete lathes are at a good angle for showing the right end of the bed.  But none of those that are close seem to show any nameplate.  I'll post a question in the regular section.



Well, this is interesting...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atlas-Craft...d3e23b851:g:46wAAOSw3h1ZP-xw&autorefresh=true


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## NCpatrol

And another one.  
http://www.flywheelmachinetools.com/Hobbieatlasqc42turret.html


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## rkowolik

wa5cab said:


> I hadn't previously noticed it probably because looking back I see that almost all age related questions the past year have been for 12".  In the combined machine database (408 entries to date) there are only 74 10" entries, a third of which show no serial numbers.  And there is a large jump or blank range in the 10" serial numbers.  They meander up to a little over 8000 and then skip to over 17000.  Plus we only have three supposed bearing dates, one of which does not track with the other two.  Meaning that it is about 13000 smaller than one with almost the same date.
> 
> Anyway, anyone with a 10" who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number (which includes bed length), serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.



I just re-acquired my 10D from my uncle at least I'm pretty sure is a D, no cross feed drive. The Serial Number is: D7913S


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## wa5cab

NCpatrol said:


> And another one.
> http://www.flywheelmachinetools.com/Hobbieatlasqc42turret.html



Interesting.  The second lathe has the rare tailstock turret.  From the photo showing the drawer pulled out, it apparently has no drawer slides.


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## wa5cab

rkowolik said:


> I just re-acquired my 10D from my uncle at least I'm pretty sure is a D, no cross feed drive. The Serial Number is: D7913S



RK,

What is the length of your bed (choices are 36", 42". 48" or 54").

No power cross feed is a necessary but not sufficient  criteria.  However, the "D" prefix to the serial number is definitive.  If you can find it inside the headstock, you'll also find that the casting number begins with "10D".


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## NCpatrol

wa5cab said:


> Interesting.  The second lathe has the rare tailstock turret.  From the photo showing the drawer pulled out, it apparently has no drawer slides.



I've reached out to him to see if he'll take some more pictures so i can try to reproduce the drawer and door, though I can probably get very close from what info I already have.  I suspect the back end of the drawer is slightly taller than the opening to catch the "lip" at the top of the opening and prevent it from sliding all the way out.

He's also got a horizontal mill on a much more beat up version of the same cabinet.


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## wa5cab

Yes.  There were three models sold.  The small one with drop door and no drawer was sold for use under either the mill or the shaper.  And two lengths of the lathe one were offered.  One for the 36" and 42" length beds and one for the 48" and 54" ones.  I've never seen even a photo of the shorter lathe one and can only assume that it had both door and drawer as the catalog ads don't say that it doesn't.

I'm sure that the drawer would have had something on the rear panel to prevent accidentally pulling it all of the way out.  And a taller rear panel would have been the simplest.


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## RMTool

I just acquired a 12" Craftsman 101.07403 metal lathe with a 42" bed.  It is the "Deluxe" model.  I am in the tear down/cleaning/inspection process now.  What I have learned so far:
Both timken bearings engraved with 5/30/46 dates and class 3.  Serial number on the ways is 15616.  I am assuming it is a 1946 model, but maybe the serial number suggests later?

The lathe is in excellent shape.  I bought it extremely dirty, but all the pre-inspection pointed to a good machine.  As I disassemble and clean, it appears that the lathe was not used very much at all!


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## wa5cab

NCpatrol said:


> I'm fairly certain it uses the original reversing box.     I actually found the article on another site.  I'm positive this is the same exact file that the hard copy that came with my machine was printed from.
> http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/51/7158.pdf
> 
> It appears that you actually use the full set of original Atlas change gears on a new lead screw shaft extension.   All the changing is done through the 7 added 32-tooth gears.



I meant to comment yesterday about the standard gear set and the reversing.  A complete gear set for 10" or 12" from the 10F and 101.07403 on was 15.  Plus 3 more if it has a tumbler.  If you look at photos 3, 4 and 6 just below the spindle gear, you will see the two tumbler gears and the hex head of the shoulder bolts that attach them to the tumbler.  Below them if you know what you are looking for, you can see the stud gear.  The lathe in the MI photos is a babbit bearing 12".  From the belt cover, most likely a 101.07383.  To the left of the belt cover in some of the photos you can see the forked bracket that the belt tension rod (missing) sits in.  I think that the belt tension rod has been moved to the right end of the countershaft.  The knob and rod in that location is too long to be the back gear engagement lever.

On a 10F without factory QCGB the stud gear is driven by the spindle gear instead of by the tumbler gears.  On a 10D and earlier, there is no stud gear and you would need the 10-1273 Template in order to drill the hole for the stud.  But on a 10", I think you're correct in saying that the lead screw direction is still controlled by the FWD-REV gear box.


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## wa5cab

RMTool said:


> I just acquired a 12" Craftsman 101.07403 metal lathe with a 42" bed.  It is the "Deluxe" model.  I am in the tear down/cleaning/inspection process now.  What I have learned so far:
> BothTimken bearings engraved with 5/30/46 dates and class 3.  Serial number on the ways is 15616.  I am assuming it is a 1946 model, but maybe the serial number suggests later?
> 
> The lathe is in excellent shape.  I bought it extremely dirty, but all the pre-inspection pointed to a good machine.  As I disassemble and clean, it appears that the lathe was not used very much at all!



Thanks.  Your serial number and dates are consistent with several others with similar dates.  So late 1946 is probable.  

You are only about the third one to report or show a photo with a "3" engraved.  

Is there a letter "S" engraved following the serial number digits?  What about any prefix letters?


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## RMTool

wa5cab said:


> Thanks.  Your serial number and dates are consistent with several others with similar dates.  So late 1946 is probable.
> 
> You are only about the third one to report or show a photo with a "3" engraved.
> 
> Is there a letter "S" engraved following the serial number digits?  What about any prefix letters?


Sorry for the poor pictures, but hopefully you can see that both the cups and cones are all engraved with 5/30/46 and 3. 

There is not a prefix or suffix after the serial number. 

Thanks for the help in dating this lathe


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## RMTool

I have also restored a 6" 101.07301 craftsman lathe.  It has the bronze bushing headstock, so no luck in having any dates engraved on them.  It is a very nice little lathe.  It would be really cool if both lathes were manufactured in the same year!


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## wa5cab

OK.  No "S" agrees with the database.  Atlas apparently ceased putting them on the Craftsman lathes after the serial number in 1945. 

Your photos are fine.  You should see some that we get.

Dating any of the 6" (Atlas did not engrave dates on the 6" Timken bearings, either), like dating any of the babbit bearing 9" or 10" or 12", or the late 12", is difficult.  About the only possibility is someone who knows when the lathe was bought.  We do have a couple of that sort of case with the 101.07301.  So post the serial number.


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## RMTool

wa5cab said:


> OK.  No "S" agrees with the database.  Atlas apparently ceased putting them on the Craftsman lathes after the serial number in 1945.
> 
> Your photos are fine.  You should see some that we get.
> 
> Dating any of the 6" (Atlas did not engrave dates on the 6" Timken bearings, either), like dating any of the babbit bearing 9" or 10" or 12", or the late 12", is difficult.  About the only possibility is someone who knows when the lathe was bought.  We do have a couple of that sort of case with the 101.07301.  So post the serial number.



Serial number for the 6"is 25024.  Thanks for looking into this for me!


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  Based on several assumptions including constant production rate, and accepting the owner's statement that his father bought his machine (s/n 022072) in mid 1947, I get 22 June 1950.  However, you can take 1950 as being the earliest possible year and figure it was actually made one or two years later.  The reason is the practical one that if sales hadn't fallen off after WW-II and apparently drasticaly in the early to mid 50's, Sears wouldn't have stopped production in mid 1957 and switched over to selling their version of the 618.


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## RMTool

wa5cab said:


> OK.  Based on several assumptions including constant production rate, and accepting the owner's statement that his father bought his machine (s/n 022072) in mid 1947, I get 22 June 1950.  However, you can take 1950 as being the earliest possible year and figure it was actually made one or two years later.  The reason is the practical one that if sales hadn't fallen off after WW-II and apparently drasticaly in the early to mid 50's, Sears wouldn't have stopped production in mid 1957 and switched over to selling their version of the 618.


That's great information!  Thank You for taking the time to research this for me!


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## NCpatrol

wa5cab said:


> I meant to comment yesterday about the standard gear set and the reversing.  A complete gear set for 10" or 12" from the 10F and 101.07403 on was 15.  Plus 3 more if it has a tumbler.  If you look at photos 3, 4 and 6 just below the spindle gear, you will see the two tumbler gears and the hex head of the shoulder bolts that attach them to the tumbler.  Below them if you know what you are looking for, you can see the stud gear.  The lathe in the MI photos is a babbit bearing 12".  From the belt cover, most likely a 101.07383.  To the left of the belt cover in some of the photos you can see the forked bracket that the belt tension rod (missing) sits in.  I think that the belt tension rod has been moved to the right end of the countershaft.  The knob and rod in that location is too long to be the back gear engagement lever.
> 
> On a 10F without factory QCGB the stud gear is driven by the spindle gear instead of by the tumbler gears.  On a 10D and earlier, there is no stud gear and you would need the 10-1273 Template in order to drill the hole for the stud.  But on a 10", I think you're correct in saying that the lead screw direction is still controlled by the FWD-REV gear box.



I was hoping to pull out all the pieces of the QCGB last weekend and start to piece it together...but that never happened!

This is a video from the PO where he's showing the DC drive and also gets in to the box a little.  He didn't have it completed when he sold it and I'm still not sure how it's driven off the spindle, but supposedly all the gearing was done so I should have everything I need to make it work.


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## wa5cab

NCpatrol said:


> ... and I'm still not sure how it's driven off the spindle, ...



As best I can figure, the Stud Gear Extension Shaft shown in the upper left corner of the MI blueprint on page 111 has a 32T gear pressed onto the large end, and this 32T gear would be driven by the 32T spindle gear on any 10".  On the 12", it would be driven by the 32T tumbler gear, although I suspect that you would have to acquire the older single 32T gear if the lathe that you were converting was a later 12" one with a 32T/16T compound gear originally in that location.


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## Atlasman1980

wa5cab said:


> I hadn't previously noticed it probably because looking back I see that almost all age related questions the past year have been for 12".  In the combined machine database (408 entries to date) there are only 74 10" entries, a third of which show no serial numbers.  And there is a large jump or blank range in the 10" serial numbers.  They meander up to a little over 8000 and then skip to over 17000.  Plus we only have three supposed bearing dates, one of which does not track with the other two.  Meaning that it is about 13000 smaller than one with almost the same date.
> 
> Anyway, anyone with a 10" who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number (which includes bed length), serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.





wa5cab said:


> I hadn't previously noticed it probably because looking back I see that almost all age related questions the past year have been for 12".  In the combined machine database (408 entries to date) there are only 74 10" entries, a third of which show no serial numbers.  And there is a large jump or blank range in the 10" serial numbers.  They meander up to a little over 8000 and then skip to over 17000.  Plus we only have three supposed bearing dates, one of which does not track with the other two.  Meaning that it is about 13000 smaller than one with almost the same date.
> 
> Anyway, anyone with a 10" who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number (which includes bed length), serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.


Hello Robert, 
                  Im a new member and would like to give you the spec's from my lathe. I have a 10" Atlas TH48 with a pick-o-matic gearbox, the serial number is 054983. Also, the dates that were on the bearings are 6/19/44 & 10/24/44. If there is anything I'm missing please let me know. 
                                     Thanks James A.


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  The bearing dates are consistent with the serial number.  And probably with it having the Pick-o-matic.  The one parts manual that we have a copy or that includes the Pick-o-matic is Lathe Bulletin 10L-1A dated January 1946.  So there must have been a 10L-1 in 1945 (which if it is illustrated will be the first illustrated one known).  It would be interesting to know whether or not it included the Pick-o-matic when purchased or whether that was added.  If you acquired a parts manual with the lathe, give me the date and number.

Five questions, and some optionals:

1) Do you recall which bearing had which date?
2) Do you recall anything else being engraved on either bearing?  Such as the numeral 3?
3) Is the serial number on the right end of the front way or on the nameplate?
4) Is the nameplate on the rear or on the right end of the bed?
5) Is there anything else stamped on the bed near the serial number or engraved or stamped on the nameplate?  Such as the letter P for Pick-o-matic?

The database has places for:

Where/From whom/When/How much paid?
Accessories acquired with it.
Accessories added later
Comments on general condition as acquired.
Current general condition and what you've done to it.
Any other comments you wish to make,

All of these are optional.

I used to get out to San Antonio several times a year when my wife's parents were alive.  Have you had any trouble out of Harvey?  We've been lucky.  Except for the test run Friday afternoon, I haven't had to run the generator.  And so far no water in the house.


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## Atlasman1980

wa5cab said:


> Thanks.  The bearing dates are consistent with the serial number.  And probably with it having the Pick-o-matic.  The one parts manual that we have a copy or that includes the Pick-o-matic is Lathe Bulletin 10L-1A dated January 1946.  So there must have been a 10L-1 in 1945 (which if it is illustrated will be the first illustrated one known).  It would be interesting to know whether or not it included the Pick-o-matic when purchased or whether that was added.  If you acquired a parts manual with the lathe, give me the date and number.
> 
> Five questions, and some optionals:
> 
> 1) Do you recall which bearing had which date?
> 2) Do you recall anything else being engraved on either bearing?  Such as the numeral 3?
> 3) Is the serial number on the right end of the front way or on the nameplate?
> 4) Is the nameplate on the rear or on the right end of the bed?
> 5) Is there anything else stamped on the bed near the serial number or engraved or stamped on the nameplate?  Such as the letter P for Pick-o-matic?
> 
> The database has places for:
> 
> Where/From whom/When/How much paid?
> Accessories acquired with it.
> Accessories added later
> Comments on general condition as acquired.
> Current general condition and what you've done to it.
> Any other comments you wish to make,
> 
> All of these are optional.
> 
> I used to get out to San Antonio several times a year when my wife's parents were alive.  Have you had any trouble out of Harvey?  We've been lucky.  Except for the test run Friday afternoon, I haven't had to run the generator.  And so far no water in the house.



Hello Robert, 
     Thank you for your quick response. Unfortunately, I didn't get a manual with the lathe or any kind of literature about it. But, to answer your questions :
1.Chuck side bearing dates 6/19/44
   Gear side bearing dates 10/25/44
2. Yes, there is a 3 engraved on the bearings /races.
3. Serial number on nameplate.
4. Nameplate on right end of bed.
5. There is nothing else stamped on the bed or anywhere else I can see. 
As for harvey ,San Antonio fared really well. As for all my fellow Texans on the Gulf Coast just keep em in prayer. 
 Thank you James A.


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## wa5cab

OK.


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## NCpatrol

Does a model number specify the bed length or could there be multiple bed lengths under the same model number?   Specifically, found  a 101-28990 with s/n 106697 and I can't tell the bed length from the pics.  The ways are trashed, but if it's got a good under drive cabinet that I'd love to put my 54" on if it would fit.


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## wa5cab

NC,

To cover your specific model # question, yes.  The 101.28990 is a 12x36 and has a 54" bed.  So whatever model you have, it will fit on top of the cabinet.  However, only three other model numbers can hook up to the underdrive without modification.  These are the other three cabinet models, 101.28950 12x24, 101.28970 12x36, 101.28980 12x24.  And all of these are already cabinet models.

I don't have time right now to write up all of the in's and out's of what you will need if you have any of the 15 or 20 possible other models but if you will give your model number, I'll tell you whether or not there are enough parts on the cabinet model 101.28990 to convert yours to cabinet.  I have to also do some parts list research as this question never came up before.  And my lunch is getting cold.


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## NCpatrol

My "good" machine is a 28910.   The 28990 is cheap enough that I plan to pick it up just for parts I need for my other 3 machines....and to sell whatever's left over.  I was planning to trying to sell the cabinet but then it dawned on me that if I could swap my shop-built table for the cabinet, I'd probably be happier in the long run...if it will swap.   My 28910 is in extremely good shape.     The 28990 looks pretty beat in the pictures, but I need a bunch of "non wear" items from it to complete the restoration on my TH48 and I'll probably come out ahead vs. buying parts individually on ebay.

This is a pic of the donor machine.


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## wa5cab

NC,

OK.  The 101.28910 has most of the same parts as the 101.28990.  Including the same basic headstock.  You will need to pull the two spindles and transfer the two-groove pulley on the 28990 to yours.  Instructions for disassembly and reassembly of the headstock are in the Atlas Technical Bulletin on the late 12" which you will find in the DOWNLOADS Category named "A/C Lathe Repairs & Tech Bulletins".  The filename actually says Back Gears but it covers the entire headstock.  Swapping the pulleys and the belt covers is all that you have to do in order to drop your lathe onto the under drive cabinet.  I recommend that you call Clausing and order four new rubber bushings/seals to go under the legs.  You should also replace the two belts while you have the spindle and back gears out.  The belts are A42's.  Do NOT use link belts.  You can buy the belts locally but as you need to order the seals may as well get them from Clausing.  They may cost a little more but you are going to pay UPS shipping rate for the seals anyway.  At the cost of petrol today, you won't say any money buying them local.

For removing and re-installing the spindle, I recommend making a puller-installer set from 3/4" all-thread, coupling nuts (long pattern nuts) and some steel mechanical tubing pf appropriate ID and OD.  Plus a stepped disk with center hole to support the puller nut.

Also, when putting your machine on the cabinet, pay close attention to the relative position of the pulley grooves and belt relative to the ends of the cutout in the drip pan and cabinet top to clear the drive belts.  Mine came misaligned from the factory with the right belt rubbing on the right end of the slot.  The belt lasted about three weeks.

There may be one additional socket head cap screw attaching the 101.28990 headstock to the bed than there is on your 101.28910,  To find it, lift the belt cover and look down in the vicinity of the left belt just inside the front wall of the headstock casting.  That was apparently added during production of the final versions but didn't show up in the parts drawing of the headstock.  There are also two bolts up under the left end of the headstock attaching the casting to the bed.  These are not shown in most parts lists.

While in DOWNLOADS, go to the Atlas Lathe Manuals sub-category and download the 3996 manual.  I have done a lot of editing of it.  Mostly cosmetic but also fixed several errors and omissions in the original.  Including that screw.  The PDF is now at Rev6.  If you don't already have it, also download the manual on your original machine from the Craftsman Lathe Manuals sub-category.  And download the Craftsman

Also, if you don't already have it, buy a copy of the Atlas Manual of Lathe Operation (AKA MOLO), any black cover edition dated 1967 Twenty-Third Edition or later.



NOTE:  The following two paragraphs apply to the 101.28940 and not to the 101.28910...

I would also transfer the improvements that Atlas made to the final version from  the 28990 to the 28910.  If you do, I would also transfer the nameplate.  Improvements consisted of the slip clutch on the left end of the lead screw (and a new right lead screw bearing) (Instructions for adjusting the clutch are in the 3996 manual (and other places)).  And the lever operator for the power cross feed.  If your lead screw is less worn that the one on the donor, you can modify yours to fit.  You will also need to transfer the cross feed selector gear shaft.  Because of the detent ball and spring, you will need to drop the apron off of the saddle, too.  I think that having done that, you can make the swap without removing the carriage from the bed.  While you have the aprons off, examine the key in the bevel gear that is driven by the slot in the lead screw for excessive wear.

If you decide to do the modifications to your lead screw yourself, you will need to rig up some sort of bearing to support the left end of the leadscrew and keep it from whipping around while machining  the other end.  And also to support the weight.  A 1/2" ID self aligning pillow block bearing on some sort of stand should work.  If you have a wood working table saw, you may have an adjustable height in feed/out feed adjustable height roller stand that will probably work with minor mods.


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## NCpatrol

My 28910 has a clutch on the screw.   Is the clutch on the 28990 an improved version or something?


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## wa5cab

No.  Sorry, I keep forgetting that although Atlas appears to have never done so, Sears was bad about using lower numbers on later version equipment.  101.28900 & 101.28910 are newer than 101.28930 & 101.28940 instead of the other way around..  Another good bad example is 101.21200 is newer than 101.21400 (6" MK2 and 6" MK1).  The only thing that you shoiuld need to change will be the spindle pulley and the belt cover and bracket (and the nameplate, or part of it).


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## NCpatrol

Awesome.   Hopefully I'll pick up the 28990 this weekend and can assess it's condition.   Although I'm not real excited about having to pull the spindle (twice!), it's good to know that's all it needs to make it work.  Hopefully the cabinet and associated parts are in serviceable condition.


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## wa5cab

Good luck.


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## pemdoc65

I just picked up an Atlas lathe with a 36 inch bed at a late machinist's estate auction. The plate on the end of the bed indicates that it is an H54. The serial number is 055718. It came with a Union 4 jaw chuck, a Union 3 jaw chuck, two faceplates, full set of change gears, the original tool holder and a steady rest. The lathe is mounted on a very nice and sturdy homemade steel table. The 3/4 horsepower motor works well, and the power feed and crossfeed work. The package cost me $500. The unit seems to be well maintained, and has babbitt bearings.


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  Can you please give me country, state/province and city?  At the moment, because of the recent server software update, I can't get that info from your Avatar info.

FYI, from the serial number and model number, it was probably made in early 1945, which was the last year that Atlas built babbit bearing headstocks.  If it had had Timken roller bearings, the model number would have been TH54.  The H means that it has a Horizontal countershaft assembly (the other choice, which was V for Vertical, also ceased production in about 1945).  The 54 means that the bed is 54" long (the other choices were 36, 42 and 48, with the 36 and 48 being dropped late 1947 or early 1948).  When you subtract from the bed length the length of the headstock and tailstock, each with a dead center installed, you get the distance between centers, which as you said is about 36".  So the generic size specifier is 10x36.  And the Series that it belongs to is 10F.  The 10F parts manual is in DOWNLOADS, which is currently being called Resources.  

Atlas never did a Technical Bulletin on the babbit headstocks.  There is a little information, including a section view, in some editions of the MOLO (Atlas Manual of Lathe Operations and Machinist Tables).  If one did not come with the machine, the best source is probably eBay.  The first 15 editions of the MOLO just say on the copyright page Copyright 1937.  From the 16th Edition on, the babbit bearing info was dropped from the MOLO.  The one that you want will have white plastic binding instead of spiral wire and Part 7 - THREADING will cover the Atlas F-Series 10 Inch instead of the Sears Master Craftsman.  They were printed from about 1943 to 1953, but there is no way in the manuals to determine the print year and edition number.  eBay sellers almost never put the threading information in their ads so you will usually have to write them and ask what's in Part 7 (or Chapter 7).  Prices typically run from about $25 to $40.  Anything over $40, keep looking.


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## wa5cab

I forgot to add that there is a closed thread in the Sticky area at the top of this Forum on navigating DOWNLOADS (Resources).  Read it first.  It will save you some time.  It's currently third from the top.


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## pemdoc65

Thanks! I'll check those out. The lathe didn't come with a manual, but did come with a 1966 dated parts manual. I'm in Shepherdsville, KY USA.
Wayne


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## wa5cab

OK.


----------



## oldschoolcane

Robert,
I also have an H series Atlas lathe. Model H48, serial #51183. It has the metal lathe stand with wood shelves that it came with. I was thinking about mounting the lathe to a heavy wood shop table, with your experience whats the difference in using this lathe with its Atlas supplied stand versus a made to order shop table?
Thanks,

Tim


----------



## wa5cab

Tim,

I've only ever had my under-drive equipped 3996 mounted to the floor stand that came with it.  But based on what many other have reported, if the table is well braced, the top is 2" nominal (usually 1-5/8" to 1-3/4") thickness, and the table is level and properly anchored to the floor, when compared to a factory floor stand leveled and anchored, one should be as good as the other.  However, it shouldn't be any better.

I think that we have a drawing showing the proper location for the countershaft bracket mounting holes relative to the bed.  However, because Atlas didn't always supply the motor and because of the variation in motor bases, I don't think that there was ever a template for the motor.


----------



## KDLaun

Hello all. Newly joined here, but I've been reading through the older posts on this thread with great interest for the past few weeks. I'm in the process of acquiring an Atlas lathe. It suffered some damage about 15 years ago, which appears to be limited to the cast iron guards over the belts and gears and a broken motor mounting plate. It's been mainly idle in its current location since then. It has some light rust, but all the gears appear to have a full set of teeth. Soon it will be in my garage as a rehab project. I was wondering if any of the Atlas experts here could provide any background information. It doesn't appear there is a "master list" of serial numbers anywhere. My particular machine is an Atlas QC54 with serial number 08849L.


----------



## wa5cab

KD,

The Atlas Quick Change Gear Box first appeared in late 1947, at about the same time that Atlas discontinued the 36" and 48" beds (so there are no QC36 or QC48's).  Initially, Atlas started the serial numbers on the QC's at 1 or maybe 100 or 200.  At some later point, they were merged into the S/N block being used by the change gear 10F's.  Best current guess is that this happened around 1951 and may have coincided with the QCGB change from No. 1500 (which yours is) to No. 6800.  This happened sometime before S/N 082925.  So far, yours is the highest 4-digit serial number reported.  And the only one with an "L" suffix.  So for at least the time being, we'll say that your machine was made in 1950.  

Although they are not real common, you should be able to eventually find a replacement belt cover and motor mount on eBay.  All parts on your machine except for the QCGB and bandjo (change gear bracket) are the same as on the change gear 10F.  Of which at least 80.000 were built.

Your machine has the not real common but not rare either factory floor stand.  And it has the uncommon factory drip pan.

There is an Atlas machine database in Downloads.  As soon as you can see the Downloads tab on the upper tool bar, go to Downloads, click where it says to click here 1st, and 2nd.  Click on Atlas/Craftsman/AA, and scroll down and click on A/C Database.  I didn't realize that they had gotten that far behind (I'll update them shortly) but there are three files with .TXT extensions.  They are actually .MDX, .DBF and .CSV files.  Adding the .TXT on the end was a trick to allow them to be uploaded.  After downloading, change the file name by deleting the .TXT from the end of the file name.  The database includes all types of Atlas machines, including those sold by Sears.  Plus the 6" lathes sold by Sears but made by AA.

Also in Downloads you will find a lot of manuals and Atlas Technical Bulletins and etc.


----------



## KDLaun

wa5cab said:


> KD,
> 
> The Atlas Quick Change Gear Box first appeared in late 1947, at about the same time that Atlas discontinued the 36" and 48" beds (so there are no QC36 or QC48's).  Initially, Atlas started the serial numbers on the QC's at 1 or maybe 100 or 200.  At some later point, they were merged into the S/N block being used by the change gear 10F's.  Best current guess is that this happened around 1951 and may have coincided with the QCGB change from No. 1500 (which yours is) to No. 6800.  This happened sometime before S/N 082925.  So far, yours is the highest 4-digit serial number reported.  And the only one with an "L" suffix.  So for at least the time being, we'll say that your machine was made in 1950.
> 
> Although they are not real common, you should be able to eventually find a replacement belt cover and motor mount on eBay.  All parts on your machine except for the QCGB and bandjo (change gear bracket) are the same as on the change gear 10F.  Of which at least 80.000 were built.
> 
> Your machine has the not real common but not rare either factory floor stand.  And it has the uncommon factory drip pan.
> 
> There is an Atlas machine database in Downloads.  As soon as you can see the Downloads tab on the upper tool bar, go to Downloads, click where it says to click here 1st, and 2nd.  Click on Atlas/Craftsman/AA, and scroll down and click on A/C Database.  I didn't realize that they had gotten that far behind (I'll update them shortly) but there are three files with .TXT extensions.  They are actually .MDX, .DBF and .CSV files.  Adding the .TXT on the end was a trick to allow them to be uploaded.  After downloading, change the file name by deleting the .TXT from the end of the file name.  The database includes all types of Atlas machines, including those sold by Sears.  Plus the 6" lathes sold by Sears but made by AA.
> 
> Also in Downloads you will find a lot of manuals and Atlas Technical Bulletins and etc.



Awesome information! Thank you so much.

I've already located a motor mount and have it on the way. The original belt cover is an odd contraption that has a long, thin hatch that opens right to left. It doesn't even seem to cover the gears completely. I've not found anything on Ebay (or even a photo of one anywhere) that compares to it yet. It appears that the more common rounded version (10-18) that hinges on the back will fit. I'll need the hinge parts as well as they are broken off at the bolts.


----------



## KDLaun

Here's some shots of the guards and mount for your viewing pleasure....


----------



## wa5cab

I was going to say that the motor mount is probably repairable.  Although paying commercial rates to get it done would probably cost more than a replacement.  As you have a replacement on the way, it's a moot point.

The belt and gear cover probably isn't repairable.  But in any case, it looks like before it was broken, it had been modified .  Atlas never made anything that hinged right to left like that.


----------



## westsailpat

Hi KD , the machine in the pic 4336 . Is that yours ?


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## KDLaun

westsailpat said:


> Hi KD , the machine in the pic 4336 . Is that yours ?


Soon to be.   I just need to get it moved to my house.


----------



## westsailpat

Nice , keep us posted .


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## KDLaun

wa5cab said:


> KD,
> 
> The Atlas Quick Change Gear Box first appeared in late 1947, at about the same time that Atlas discontinued the 36" and 48" beds (so there are no QC36 or QC48's).  Initially, Atlas started the serial numbers on the QC's at 1 or maybe 100 or 200.  At some later point, they were merged into the S/N block being used by the change gear 10F's.  Best current guess is that this happened around 1951 and may have coincided with the QCGB change from No. 1500 (which yours is) to No. 6800.  This happened sometime before S/N 082925.  So far, yours is the highest 4-digit serial number reported.  And the only one with an "L" suffix.  So for at least the time being, we'll say that your machine was made in 1950.
> 
> Although they are not real common, you should be able to eventually find a replacement belt cover and motor mount on eBay.  All parts on your machine except for the QCGB and bandjo (change gear bracket) are the same as on the change gear 10F.  Of which at least 80.000 were built.
> 
> Your machine has the not real common but not rare either factory floor stand.  And it has the uncommon factory drip pan.
> 
> There is an Atlas machine database in Downloads.  As soon as you can see the Downloads tab on the upper tool bar, go to Downloads, click where it says to click here 1st, and 2nd.  Click on Atlas/Craftsman/AA, and scroll down and click on A/C Database.  I didn't realize that they had gotten that far behind (I'll update them shortly) but there are three files with .TXT extensions.  They are actually .MDX, .DBF and .CSV files.  Adding the .TXT on the end was a trick to allow them to be uploaded.  After downloading, change the file name by deleting the .TXT from the end of the file name.  The database includes all types of Atlas machines, including those sold by Sears.  Plus the 6" lathes sold by Sears but made by AA.
> 
> Also in Downloads you will find a lot of manuals and Atlas Technical Bulletins and etc.




Just looking through the photos I have again and I think that "L" on the end of the serial number is actually a "1" (088491). I took a couple of photos when I first looked and neither is all that clear. Once I get it moved, I will be able to get a better look. Right now the end of it is pushed into a corner. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  When you are able to confirm that, please do so here.  I took another look at the photo and it does appear that the horizontal part that makes it an "L" instead of a "1" could be damage instead.  Plus none of the other machines in the database have an "L" suffix.  And it just registered that if the numeric part of the serial number really is "8849". then if should have been entered as "008849", not "08849".  Also, the progression of serial numbers is more or less uniform from "000423" to "004882" so having the next one show up as "08849" is unusual.  In any case, I have edited the database, because I'm pretty sure for all of those other reasonns that you are going to find upon examination of the actual plate that the last character was originally "1".

What that says about the QCGB appearing to be a 1500 instead of a 6800, I don't know.  But it would be far from the only example of finding either an older or a newer part on one of the machines.  You should be able to access the tumbler lever without moving the lathe.  Does the handle of the tumbler have a spring-loaded outer sleeve similar to the ones on the other two levers or is it solid and you have to open the change gear cover and loosen a nut in order to select FWD, OFF or REV?


----------



## guitarman0023

Mine is a 12x36, model # 101 28910 serial# 102005.  Let me know if you want to know anything about it


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## wa5cab

Common info that's in many of the records is where, when, how, how much ($) you got it.  Condition at acquisition, what you did to it, current condition.  Accessories and tooling you got with it.  Accessories and tooling you've acquired since.  Etc.


----------



## guitarman0023

wa5cab said:


> Common info that's in many of the records is where, when, how, how much ($) you got it.  Condition at acquisition, what you did to it, current condition.  Accessories and tooling you got with it.  Accessories and tooling you've acquired since.  Etc.




I got it in wheeling, west Virginia in 2014 I think.  Was in ok shape, but in a barn so very rusted up, gunked up and full of chips.  I completely disassembled it, cleaned all the old grease out, painted it, and got it running and tight again.  I paid 250 dollars for it, and when I got it, it came with a QC gear box, and a four jaw 8"Chuck.  I have since added tooling and a quick change tool post, and a variety of Morse taper 2 Chuck's and centers for the tail stock.  It's in great shape, but there is a small amount of wear on the ways, evident when the carriage gets a little snug towards the tail stock, but cuts pretty decent and gives a nice finish on light cuts with a shear HSS tool.  I'm very happy with it.  I've probably invested around 700 total in tooling, and I would like to find a milling attachment to hold me over until I can find a mill.


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## wa5cab

OK.  Thanks.  FWIW, by the time that the 28910 came out, Atlas was no long selling the cheaper change gear models.  The machine will do quite well with carbide cutters.  On being a little tight toward the tailstock, over the decades, a thin layer of varnish tends to accumulate there because the carriage seldom runs over it but the area tends to getsoiled some from oiling the part of the ways that the tailstock runs between.  A good cleaning and polishing with Varsol and the finest Scotchbrite nylon pad may improve that a little.


----------



## KDLaun

Date confirmation for QC54, ser 088491: I managed to get my spindle apart today and found a date on the bearings (both the same) 11/21/50
This was not a job I hope to repeat any time in the future. It all went according to plan until the last inch or so. I ended up using a gear puller to get the LH bearing off the shaft. I still have the re-assembly ahead, but I'm working on cleaning everything was best I can before I do that.


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  There is an odd thing about the Atlas 10".  The highest serial number that we have is only slightly higher than yours, 088786, with a bearing date of August 14, 1951.  We have 16 records where the owner did not give the serial Number, but the odds of them being later machines is pretty slim.  Yet the 10F is supposed to have remained in production up until 1957.  The same isn't true of the Sears 12", where the highest bearing date that we have is 1951 but the highst serial number is almost 10,000 higher.


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## KDLaun

wa5cab said:


> Thanks.  There is an odd thing about the Atlas 10".  The highest serial number that we have is only slightly higher than yours, 088786, with a bearing date of August 14, 1951.  We have 16 records where the owner did not give the serial Number, but the odds of them being later machines is pretty slim.  Yet the 10F is supposed to have remained in production up until 1957.  The same isn't true of the Sears 12", where the highest bearing date that we have is 1951 but the highst serial number is almost 10,000 higher.



Interesting....  I suppose it's possible the headstock and bed didn't start out together, but I don't have any reason to believe they didn't I have an address label in my documents that lists Capital Machine Tools in Tampa, FL. I have no idea if that has any pertinence to my machine.


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## wa5cab

Well, that isn't likely as the serial number is on the bed and identifies it as being off of a 10F.  About the only things of that nature (mixed vintage parts) that are fairly common would be an early bed (serial number below about 9000) with 10F headstock and/or carriage.

I'm sure that Capital Machine Tools was once an Atlas distributor.


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## Aneill1975

Just made a deal on a 10F.  The PO gave it a (bad) paint job, but thats about it.  Needs a good cleaning etc.  Will be picking up in the next few weeks.  Going to take a bit to get functional, but will be a nice little machine afterwards.  

Here's a few pictures I took when I went and had a look at it.  Seems to be a fair amount of extras, I will make a list once everything is home and sorted.

Location:  British Columbia
Purchase Price: $300 (Trade value)
Extras: TBD

From what I've read, I peg this unit at late 1941, early 1942.  M#  H54  S#  027771

More pictures to follow


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## wa5cab

Well, as it has the final version of headstock casting with the rectangular power switch escutcheon, I would have guessed early 1942.  But a straight-line calculation based on the serial numbers and the nearest two known bearing dates and the assumption that production rate was constant over the period puts the date as 23 July 1941.  Given what happened a few months later, production rates probably went up after 7 December.  Which would put the straight line date too early.  So your guess is probably as likely as the calculation.


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## robert574

I have an Atlas 10F with power cross feed, quick change gear box, babbit bearings, vertical counter shaft and a 54" bed.  It doesn't have a badge.  The serial number is on the top of the end of the bed V 11475 S.  It belonged to my Grandfather but I got it after he passed away back in the early '80s and I didn't get any paperwork with it.  In the late '80s I took it apart and cleaned it and it was sitting in pieces on the bench in the garage when I went back to college in Missouri.  After I graduated, I had a job offer and they paid to move me to FL.  I told the movers not to touch it and I would put the parts in something.  I was called in the house and when I came back out to the garage ten minutes later, new workers were in the garage and the lathe and all the parts were gone.  That was 1994.  I looked for half the parts for years but they were gone.  After a hurricane in 2004 we had some water damage and I was tossing stuff in the garage and found a coffee can in a box with all the small parts wrapped in newspaper and dry.  The next year I put it back together again.  I have most of the accessories for it also and I purchased a 5C collet chuck for it.  I've used it quite a bit since then.  I've always wondered what year it was made somewhere probably between 1938 and 1947.  Any better guess?


----------



## wa5cab

Based on several other serial numbers, I would date the original V54 (that was the original model number) to late 1938.  The QCGB came out circa 1948.  When it was actually bought and added to your Grandfather's lathe is impossible to say as if the gearboxes have any serial numbers, we don't have any of them.  And although production of the 10" lathes ceased in 1957, the gearboxes were probably still available for sale into the 1960's.

It sounds as though the machine had an interesting life.


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## robert574

Does anyone know what year the motor switch changed from being oval to rectangular?  I have a drum switch and I don't have a plate on the toggle switch hole.  I thought about just making a plate and painting it then putting on a toggle switch along with one of those on / off plates that mount under the nut.  Just for looks really.  I could wire it in series with the power to the drum switch.

I think the original motor and wiring was on the shelf under the lathe when I first got it in 1981 but it looked so old that I decided I didn't want it and would rewire it with a new(er) motor.  The lathe was sitting on the bench.  I also left the pulley on the motor all which I came to regret.  I made the stepped motor pulley on the lathe out of aluminum.  I polished, reworked and made most of the new parts for the lathe on the lathe.  It sorta made me ponder the chicken and the egg issue.  When you go back and look at all of the accessories for the early lathes and the different kinds of machinery Atlas was making it gives you al lot of admiration for the designers and manufacturing operation and workers.

Also, I just bought a set of vertical countershaft belt guards on ebay a few days ago for $175 + $25 shipping.  I've found that it is best to buy rather than make parts for it if they are available.  I'm still looking for the ultimate stand and chip pan.  I think the idea about using a wide toolbox rollaway has merit, but ultimately the lathe needs to be on it's own legs to the floor.  You don't want anything attached to a tool storage box to vibrate it.  It can damage anything with ball bearings in it. 

It looks like my lathe was made about 1938-1941 based on the oval switch plate casting hole (below)...  Thanks to everyone


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## wa5cab

Based upon studying several catalogs and flyers, and without trying to guess what Atlas's lead time on catalogs and flyers was during the War, the change occurred in early to mid 1942.  However, they did not only change the escutcheon (the switch cover plate/name plate).  They also changed the headstock casting.  the later casting has a nearly square protrusion from the front of the casting and a nearly square hole inside the square.  The earlier headstock casting had an oval protrusion and a round hole.  And might have required a less common long shank toggle switch.  The long shank switch has become difficult to find, even in Military Surplus.  Note that this casting revision was done to both Timken and babbit bearing headstocks.


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## shadetreedad

Hi, I have an Atlas 10F vertical shaft with a Pick-O-Matic Gearbox. Model # V54 & Serial # 048700. I don’t have any official documentation, but my best guess is late 1943 early 1944 for production. It appears that the POM drive was installed when new. The PO didn’t even remember who he bought it from. The leadscrew appeared original and was about half worn out in the middle so I replaced it. Didn’t need power cross feed so no need for a keyway. I also replaced the cross slide & compound drive screws with 20tpi screws. 1 revolution = .050”. This along with the 2.5 inch dials I made makes it pretty easy to take very accurate cuts. I made some other upgrades that are depicted in the photos.

Also, I have a 9”Atlas lathe, in (slow) process of rebuilding. Its Serial # is 4625S.

I really appreciate this site as I'm definitely a hobby machinist and have learned a lot reading all the posts. Thanks Mike


----------



## James Bartlett

wa5cab said:


> I hadn't previously noticed it probably because looking back I see that almost all age related questions the past year have been for 12".  In the combined machine database (408 entries to date) there are only 74 10" entries, a third of which show no serial numbers.  And there is a large jump or blank range in the 10" serial numbers.  They meander up to a little over 8000 and then skip to over 17000.  Plus we only have three supposed bearing dates, one of which does not track with the other two.  Meaning that it is about 13000 smaller than one with almost the same date.
> 
> Anyway, anyone with a 10" who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number (which includes bed length), serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.



I bought an Atlas 10 inch lathe a few years ago; I will give you what information I can.
The bed length is 54 inches; The SN has been rubbed off
However there is a number stamped at the tail end on the top surface of the bed ways, it is TI20281S,
The lathe has a Pick-O-Matic installed
As for the bearings, I can’t get to them there are no bearing caps, the headstalk and bearing cap are one piece 
I think the lathe is a D series, Sorry this is all the information that I can give you.
If there are any markings or hidden numbers that you would like me to look for, just let me know, 
I however have a question; my lathe has been in pieces since I bought it.
I have finally put it back together, a problem that I am having now is with the Pick-O-Matic
I am not getting the feeds that are indicated on the selector chart.
ex:
The chart indicates that for  a 32 tooth gear in the D position
and a 64 tooth gear in the E position and the sliding gear in the  "*OUT*" position,
I should get the following feeds with the following AB and C selector positions
a=.125
b=.250
c=.0625
however I am getting the following
a=.015
b=.031
c=.0075
The funny thing is that this is what i should be getting with sliding gear in the "*IN*" position
If any one may be able to help or point me in the right direction that would be greatly appreaciated.

James B


----------



## shadetreedad

James Bartlett said:


> I bought an Atlas 10 inch lathe a few years ago; I will give you what information I can.
> The bed length is 54 inches; The SN has been rubbed off
> However there is a number stamped at the tail end on the top surface of the bed ways, it is TI20281S,
> The lathe has a Pick-O-Matic installed
> As for the bearings, I can’t get to them there are no bearing caps, the headstalk and bearing cap are one piece
> I think the lathe is a D series, Sorry this is all the information that I can give you.
> If there are any markings or hidden numbers that you would like me to look for, just let me know,
> I however have a question; my lathe has been in pieces since I bought it.
> I have finally put it back together, a problem that I am having now is with the Pick-O-Matic
> I am not getting the feeds that are indicated on the selector chart.
> ex:
> The chart indicates that for  a 32 tooth gear in the D position
> and a 64 tooth gear in the E position and the sliding gear in the  "*OUT*" position,
> I should get the following feeds with the following AB and C selector positions
> a=.125
> b=.250
> c=.0625
> however I am getting the following
> a=.015
> b=.031
> c=.0075
> The funny thing is that this is what i should be getting with sliding gear in the "*IN*" position
> If any one may be able to help or point me in the right direction that would be greatly appreaciated.
> 
> James B



James,
Without seeing how your gear train is setup, my best guess is you don't have the sliding gear oriented properly. The attached photo shows the proper orientation for "IN". It will easily install the "wrong" way and actually work just fine, but the numbers won't be correct. If this isn't the problem, attach some photos of your setup and I'll have a better idea of what is the issue.
Mike


----------



## markba633csi

Just joined the Atlas/Craftsman 12x36 club: 101.28940 serial# 004353 (earlier version of the late style 12")
original 8" 4 jaw and Bison 6.25" 3 jaw,  two tailstock chucks, dead centers, box of bits and dogs
couple homemade faceplates, no steady. Lantern post.  Countershaft, motor, cover assembly.
Ways good, very light wear, carriage smooth all the way. Needs a spindle belt.  1140$
Purchased in Milbrae, Calif.  04/08/18



Mark


----------



## Lordbeezer

Picked up a atlas 618 awhile back.serial number 025969..no dates on bearings or cups..any idea when it was made? My first 2 lathes were 618's.one for turning.one had milling set up..sold both when diagnosed with stage 4..had to have another one..


----------



## wa5cab

Unfortunately, the Atlas practice of engraving a date on each Timken bearing in the 10" and early 12" wasn't applied to the 6" or the mills.  And in any case seems to have stopped circa mid 1952.  A rough guess would put your current 618 at around 1967.


----------



## Lordbeezer

Thanks for the info..


----------



## wa5cab

James Bartlett said:


> I bought an Atlas 10 inch lathe a few years ago; I will give you what information I can.
> The bed length is 54 inches; The SN has been rubbed off
> However there is a number stamped at the tail end on the top surface of the bed ways, it is TI20281S,
> The lathe has a Pick-O-Matic installed.



James,

If you haven't figured out your Pic-O-Matic issues, start a new thread in the regular part of this forum and include the photos mentioned by shadetreedad and we'll see whether we can figure out the issue..

On your serial number, it is in the range to be a 10F, as the first known one is 009552.  So the machine should have power cross feed which the 10D did not have.  The "T" prefix would mean "Timken".  So there would be no removable bearing caps.  The "I" I don't recognize.  Should be an "H" for Horizontal or "V" for Vertical (Countershaft Assembly).  The actual serial number would be 020281 (the leading zeroes were not stamped).  No one still alive knows what the meaning of the suffix "S" was.  It is also found on the Craftsman 12" models of the same period.

020281 would have been made around mid-1940.  The Pic-O-Matic came out circa 1946 so must have been bought later and added.


----------



## James Bartlett

shadetreedad said:


> James,
> Without seeing how your gear train is setup, my best guess is you don't have the sliding gear oriented properly. The attached photo shows the proper orientation for "IN". It will easily install the "wrong" way and actually work just fine, but the numbers won't be correct. If this isn't the problem, attach some photos of your setup and I'll have a better idea of what is the issue.
> Mike





wa5cab said:


> James,
> 
> If you haven't figured out your Pic-O-Matic issues, start a new thread in the regular part of this forum and include the photos mentioned by shadetreedad and we'll see whether we can figure out the issue..
> 
> On your serial number, it is in the range to be a 10F, as the first known one is 009552.  So the machine should have power cross feed which the 10D did not have.  The "T" prefix would mean "Timken".  So there would be no removable bearing caps.  The "I" I don't recognize.  Should be an "H" for Horizontal or "V" for Vertical (Countershaft Assembly).  The actual serial number would be 020281 (the leading zeroes were not stamped).  No one still alive knows what the meaning of the suffix "S" was.  It is also found on the Craftsman 12" models of the same period.
> 
> 020281 would have been made around mid-1940.  The Pic-O-Matic came out circa 1946 so must have been bought later and added.





shadetreedad said:


> James,
> Without seeing how your gear train is setup, my best guess is you don't have the sliding gear oriented properly. The attached photo shows the proper orientation for "IN". It will easily install the "wrong" way and actually work just fine, but the numbers won't be correct. If this isn't the problem, attach some photos of your setup and I'll have a better idea of what is the issue.
> Mike





Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.  I would  like to say thanks for the help.  That photo that you included was an eye opener.  I thought that I had every thing set up correctly, but I knew that something was not right.  The gear that is before the sliding gear in your photo is slightly
different than the one on my lathe.  However I have a couple of extra gears and one that is identical to yours.  So I changed it and was able to cut threads of 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, tpi, and I think 128 (to small to check).  All with the same two gears as indicated in the thread chart.

The first photo is the SN
(Ya, I know, Someone did some unkind things to the back of the ways)




This second Photo is the old setup (this was the set up when I bought it)
you can see the gear with the blocking plate, I thought that is was ment to keep the gear from 
sliding out of place.



Another view of  the gear with the plate.
New question!
If this does not go where I thought it was ment to go, then what is it purpose? 


Again, Thanks.


----------



## markba633csi

Ouch! Somebody used those ways for an anvil 
The sliding gear is in the right place- the blocking plate prevents interference if the following gear is not a compound gear and no spacer 
is used with it (I think)
Looks like a custom knob was fitted for rapid changes
Mark


----------



## James Bartlett

markba633csi said:


> Ouch! Somebody used those ways for an anvil
> The sliding gear is in the right place- the blocking plate prevents interference if the following gear is not a compound gear and no spacer
> is used with it (I think)
> Looks like a custom knob was fitted for rapid changes
> Mark



The story that I was told is that it was originally  owned by the Canadian Department of Defence.
Then sold to a guy in Toronto who did work with it for the Toronto Symphony, I think he worked on
flutes. I did find a fair bit of saw dust in the lathe when I cleaned it up.
Then it was sold to the person that I bought it off, he was an engineer.
I have no way of knowing if that is the truth, but it sounded good at the time it was told to me.
Anyway, it obviously has seen some ruff use. I will get it running and see 
what if any further work it will need. 
But now I have the ability to cut threads and control feed rates. 
That issue was a real pain for me. As I said, I knew something was wrong
but it looked like it should have worked. It was that photo that made all the difference.
Again Thanks


----------



## shadetreedad

James Bartlett said:


> The story that I was told is that it was originally  owned by the Canadian Department of Defence.
> Then sold to a guy in Toronto who did work with it for the Toronto Symphony, I think he worked on
> flutes. I did find a fair bit of saw dust in the lathe when I cleaned it up.
> Then it was sold to the person that I bought it off, he was an engineer.
> I have no way of knowing if that is the truth, but it sounded good at the time it was told to me.
> Anyway, it obviously has seen some ruff use. I will get it running and see
> what if any further work it will need.
> But now I have the ability to cut threads and control feed rates.
> That issue was a real pain for me. As I said, I knew something was wrong
> but it looked like it should have worked. It was that photo that made all the difference.
> Again Thanks



I'll keep it short as I know they want this topic in regular threads. The tumbler gear with the "blocking plate" is for the "Standard Gear Setup", before the Pick-O-Matic (POM) was installed on your machine. You won't need it anymore. The "custom knob" came with the POM upgrade. I left mine off so you could see clearly. Also, POM drives were first displayed/sold in the December 1943 Catalog L43. They were last seen displayed in the January 1946 Bulletin 10L-1A. The QC came out in 1947. This gave the POM drive a run of about 3 years.  shadetreedad


----------



## wa5cab

James, 

The two letters stamped before your serial number are "TH", not "TI".  And don't discard the extra 16T/32T compound gear that you have.  It appears to be a 10-1546 and should be usable on any QCGB equipped lathe made up through 1981.  And on any 10F or equivalent 12", although the disk between the two gears wouldn't be needed.


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## wa5cab

markba633csi said:


> Just joined the Atlas/Craftsman 12x36 club: 101.28940 serial# 004353 (earlier version of the late style 12") Mark



Mark,

I was still having computer problems when your post showed up and I put off handling it, and almost forgot to go back and pick it up.  Which I just did.  Thanks.

If you pull the spindle to replace the spindle belt, there is no need to report no dates on the bearings, as that practice unfortunately stopped in the early 50's.


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## markba633csi

Hi Robert- yep I'm not expecting to find any numbers on the bearings.  I'll be happy to not find any damage 
I was wondering however, would you recommend 3/4" x 16 allthread to R&R the spindle, and would a 24" length be sufficient? 
I realize I will need coupling nuts and some suitable pipe or thick tube spacers, plus wood wedges to protect the bull gear
Mark


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## wa5cab

Mark,

OK.  Yes, 3/4" allthread  should work OK and 2 feet should be plenty.  You will also need some large preferably shoulder washers for the ends of the receiver tubes.  And if you do decide that you need to replace the bearing cups (hopefully not) one just small enough to slip through the holes that the cups are pressed into.  And to pull them back into the holes.


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## markba633csi

Got it, thanks Robert
M


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## amsoilman

wa5cab said:


> I hadn't previously noticed it probably because looking back I see that almost all age related questions the past year have been for 12".  In the combined machine database (408 entries to date) there are only 74 10" entries, a third of which show no serial numbers.  And there is a large jump or blank range in the 10" serial numbers.  They meander up to a little over 8000 and then skip to over 17000.  Plus we only have three supposed bearing dates, one of which does not track with the other two.  Meaning that it is about 13000 smaller than one with almost the same date.
> 
> Anyway, anyone with a 10" who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number (which includes bed length), serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.


I have a QC42  
The serial # is 088343  I believe it has bearings as the head stock is one piece.  Year of make unknown.


----------



## M14Shooter

Just Joined.  I have an Atlas-Craftsman 101.07403 Ser 12L 037285.  Do you know what Atlas QC will fit or any other info on the lathe?  
Thanks,  
Paul


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## Mrcushman

My lathe
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 is labeled TH54 S/N 081669.


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## Mrcushman

Also, my lathe is 10”, with power cross feed. I do not any info on the bearing numbers. It still has cosmoline on a good part of it. I am using WD40 to clean it. It indicates zero end play and a little over .001 runout on the register.


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## wa5cab

Paul,

The Craftsman 101.20140 is a bolt-on replacement.  It was made from around 1950 up through about 1965 or 70.  The model number of the 101.07403 with QCGB is either 101.27430 (24" between centers) or 101.27440 (36" between centers).  I understand that the 101.20145 and 101.201451 can be adapted but I have no details.  The latter two fit the 1/2 " bed 12" Commercial machines.  Your machine has a 3/8" bed so you might have to start with a 1/8" spacer.  The two models built to fit the Atlas 10" might be made to fit, although I've no idea what would be involved other than that you would probably have to make a new change gear bracket (banjo).  However, it appears that more of the 101.20140 were made than of the two models for the 10".  And more of the 2nd and 3rd variant of the 12" QCGB's were made as they were in production for about 25 years versus about 9 years for the 10" and 7 for the 1st variant 12".

Your machine was probably made in late 1951 or early 1952.
Please post the bed length or the nominal distance between centers of your lathe.  Unfortunately, although the Sears catalog number is unique for each bed length, the model number isn't.  

You will find the parts manual on the 101.07403 in the Atlas/Craftsman section of Downloads, as well as the installation instructions and parts list of the 101.20140


----------



## wa5cab

Amsoilman,

Yes, your QC42 is a 10F Series, is a 10X24, and has Timken roller bearings on the spindle.  It was probably made in October or November of 1950.


----------



## M14Shooter

wa5cab said:


> Paul,
> 
> The Craftsman 101.20140 is a bolt-on replacement.  It was made from around 1950 up through about 1965 or 70.  The model number of the 101.07403 with QCGB is either 101.27430 (24" between centers) or 101.27440 (36" between centers).  I understand that the 101.20145 and 101.201451 can be adapted but I have no details.  The latter two fit the 1/2 " bed 12" Commercial machines.  Your machine has a 3/8" bed so you might have to start with a 1/8" spacer.  The two models built to fit the Atlas 10" might be made to fit, although I've no idea what would be involved other than that you would probably have to make a new change gear bracket (banjo).  However, it appears that more of the 101.20140 were made than of the two models for the 10".  And more of the 2nd and 3rd variant of the 12" QCGB's were made as they were in production for about 25 years versus about 9 years for the 10" and 7 for the 1st variant 12".
> 
> Your machine was probably made in late 1951 or early 1952.
> Please post the bed length or the nominal distance between centers of your lathe.  Unfortunately, although the Sears catalog number is unique for each bed length, the model number isn't.
> 
> You will find the parts manual on the 101.07403 in the Atlas/Craftsman section of Downloads, as well as the installation instructions and parts list of the 101.20140



Robert, Thank you for the information.  The bed is 42 inches and 24 inches between centers.


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## wa5cab

wa5cab said:


> Your machine has a 3/8" bed so you might have to start with a 1/8" spacer.


After re-reading my post, I decided that I had better make clear that the above sentence only applies to the 101.20145 and 101.201451.  The 101.20140 is a bolt-on replacement for the change-gear bearing and change gear banjo.


----------



## off center

Hello all  I have a 101 28990    serial no. 105307    Would some one be so kind as to give me an age?


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## wa5cab

Current best guess is made mid-1969.


----------



## off center

thank you. This one seems to be in great shape but sure is dirty. Pictures etc. to follow.


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## wa5cab

Yep, most of them are.


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## Billeh13

Hey folks! New here but thank you for the approval into the forums  here is my baby, just got it in maybe January, came with a whole bunch of other goodies as well  I think you guys will really like a certain other picture that will follow


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## Billeh13

Now I have not gone through every post in this thread to see but anyone have some dates for this guy? Looks to me like it's the lowest serial number out of all of us


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## wa5cab

Bill,

I can't make out all of the digits after 001 plus I think a 2 on the end.  But I can explain this.  When the QCGB and the QC models first appeared sometime in the latter half of 1947, Atlas did what as far as I can determine they didn't do with the major revisions from 10 to 10D and then to 10F.  Which was to start the serial numbers over at probably 000001.  The lowest serial number we have of this early group or QC models is 000423, belonging to Jerry H Freeman in Coventry, CN.  Then around 1949 at or above 004882, they changed back to the old way and the serial numbers jumped back up to coming out of the same pool as the change gear 10F.  Lowest number that we have in that group is 082925.  And the highest 10" serial number that we have is 091054.

Sometime in the mid 1930's, either Atlas or Timken started engraving an inspection date on the spindle bearing cups and sometimes the cones.  This sets the earliest date that the machine could have been made.  We know that Atlas did not practice FIFO with their bearing stock.  The largest difference between dates engraved in the two bearings is about a year.  We only have two reported examples where the dates on the two bearings are the same.  The practice of dating the bearings ceased some time after  08/14/1951 and serial number088726  .  If you ever for some other reason pull the spindle, record and report the dates.  Absent you finding the original invoice on the machine, that is as good a fix as you are going to find on the actual production date.


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## Billeh13

Sorry but of a really bad pic lol

Its 001517 that's awesome though how much variety there is throughout them would be really cool to track down the life they have had and what all they have been a part of


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## Billeh13

Unfortunately though the quick change gear box seized must have gotten a chip inside or something and that ate a tooth or two off the main gear for the gearbox so now I have to source that and get my gear box running properly again so I can do threads


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## wa5cab

Hmmm.  That's bad.  You do know that you have to go through the lubrication procedure for the oiling points daily or before every use?  The only exceptions are the gearbox if the tumbler is left in neutral, and the spindle pulley bushings and back gear bushings are before every use of back gears or every 30 days, whichever comes first.  All Atlas machines use a total loss lubrication system.


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## fkrel

Hi all I am new on this site, Just got a atlas aka craftsman lathe 10 " has QC42 and a ser number 086888 it also has 942 cast into the ways so i'm guessing 9/42   10F lathe it has the 3/4" lead screw, it also has a quick change gearbox on it, and timken bearings and uses v belts it has a square hole for a switch but the motor has been changed to one that is reverseable and has a three position switch up foward, middle is off, and down is reverse, the switch also stops at each position so you cant go from foward to reverse without stopping and is mounted under the lathe. It had a bad bull gear when I got it and was sitting for 20 years so it was very dirty, so after cleaning it up painting it and replacing the bull gear it works very good so far. If I would of known of the date being marked on the bearing cups I would of knocked one out and saved the date when I replaced the bull gear. It also has the power cross feed,


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## wa5cab

fkrel,

Weldome to H-M and the Atlas/Craftsman forum.  "942" is the Atlas part number  for a 42" bed.  Some beds do have a casting date cast in but (a) the date is often either missing or illegible, (b) it is typically in the format mm/dd/yy, and (c) the date will typically be about two years older than the lathe.  The raw castings are allowed to "season" for a year or two before being machined.

From your serial number, your machine was made late 1950 or 1951.  However, it is a 10F.

Also, the 10F and QC 42 is an Atlas, not a Craftsman.  Up until 1957, Atlas made and sold 9". 10" and 6".  And Atlas made and Sears sold, under the Craftsman badge, 9". 12" and 6".  After 1957, Atlas made and both Atlas and Sears sold 6" and 12", up until early 1981.


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## fkrel

Thanks for the welcome, I have been wanting a lathe for alot of years and just could'nt see buying a harbor frieght one. I have looked at several lathes and and figured it was going to be an atlas or a south bend or a logan and found this one with alot of tooling including a quick rest but still am looking for a steady rest and a milling attachment but they dont give them away and I am a little cheap or should I say frugal.


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## Tinkertoy1941

We have the 7B Shapers pictured below how do we get the Serial Numbers in the data base


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## wa5cab

Tinkertoy,

I moved your post to the Serial Number thread in the Sticky area.  I added the three serial numbers to the master database, but please confirm that the first two numbers are 005324 and 008953.  Also, please sent me the owner's name or H-M User ID and the location (country/state/city).  And confirm that none of them also have the serial number stamped into the top of the left or right knee way.


----------



## Tinkertoy1941

wa5cab said:


> Tinkertoy,
> 
> I moved your post to the Serial Number thread in the Sticky area.  I added the three serial numbers to the master database, but please confirm that the first two numbers are 005324 and 008953.  Also, please sent me the owner's name or H-M User ID and the location (country/state/city).  And confirm that none of them also have the serial number stamped into the top of the left or right knee way.



The owners H-M Users ID is Tinkertoy1941 location Hillsdale, Michigan, 
The shapers do not have any S/Ns stamp on the knee.
I also have MFC Mill  008199 with a Marvin Vertical Head 
Two Atlas drill presses one with 1010S S/N 005283 and 64 S/N 05283
Also have many lathes Craftsman and Atlas one with W72 Cabinet and original Legs for several
008199   008199  005283 could pass for new very little wear.
Thanks Phil


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## C-Bag

So here's my 7b plate. So how old is it?


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## wa5cab

Atlas Drill Press Model 64 serial number looks like 058456.  Please confirm.


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## Tinkertoy1941

wa5cab said:


> Atlas Drill Press Model 64 serial number looks like 058456.  Please confirm.


You are correct 058456 sorry for my mistake!!


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## wa5cab

Tinkertoy1941 said:


> You are correct 058456 sorry for my mistake!!


OK.  Thanks.


----------



## wa5cab

C-Bag said:


> So here's my 7b plate. So how old is it?



Unfortunately, there is no accurate way in which to do that.  With the Timken bearing equipped 10" and 12" lathes up through the early 1950's, you could, from the date engraved on the spindle bearings, safely state a date that the lathe couldn't possibly be older than, and from our having gathered bearing dates from several dozen machines, feel comfortable with saying that the lathe wasn't made more than about a year later than the later of the two bearing dates.  But Atlas (or maybe Timken) didn't date the bearings in any of the other machines that they made. 

At one time, I feel safe in saying that Atlas had records of when each serial number machine was made, or at least the high serial number for each month.  But unfortunately, those records have all been either lost or destroyed.  So the best that we can do is to guess at how many machines were made and at when the first and last one was made, and assume that over the production life of each machine, the same number were made each month or year (knowing that this isn't true because, given that the company is still in business, they don't still make the old machines).

So on the shapers, we know about when production started and when it ended.  And we know that at least 13691 of them were made as someone has reported having the machine with that serial number.  We only have 46 machines currently in the database master copy (and I do need to update the copy in Downloads).  So to deal in round numbers, I arbitrarily guessed at 15,000 for the total production.  We can be pretty sure that more were made during the War years than before or since.  And that the number being sold in the late 1950's was less than the average, since they quit making them.  But trying to guess as to how many were actually made each year between late 1937 and late 1959 would be a laborious exercise.  So anyway, with all of those caveats (or weasel words), the straight line calculation has your machine being made on 09/11/1955.  It was almost certainly made earlier than that but how much earlier it's impossible to say.  My guess would be three to five years.  If someone were to turn up an original invoice with serial number on one of the machines, that might help with the accuracy of the guesstimate.


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## C-Bag

Thanks. I appreciate the background and hard work. I figured it to be somewhere in the 40's because of the motor. It's the original and has oiler caps. You just don't see 110v motors with oilers very often. I would have also thought it would have been early 40's too because of the low SN 2199. But SN's can be misleading because companies can start #'s over for various reasons. Some sort of disaster, fire, flood or war. My only exposure to the mysteries of SN's is the Gibson co also in Kalamazoo who made stringed instruments. Figuring out their SN's is crazy. There are weird gaps in the numbers and it took real dedication and true detective work to make some kind of sense. Gibson was totally disrupted because of WWII so I'm surprised to hear production of the 7b actually went up in the 40's. I thought it was a hobby machine and wouldn't have been part of the war effort.


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## wa5cab

Atlas apparently sold a lot of machines to the British.

No, during the Great Depression, there wasn't any hobby market for the most part.  Neither Atlas nor Logan were sold as a hobby machine in the years before WW-II.  That's  just BS promulgated by owners of a certain other brand.  At the time that Atlas began making lathes, the country was in the depths of the Great Depression.  Only the well-to-do who had not gone broke in 1929 could have afforded a hobby.  What Sears intended is less certain but the 10" was pushed to the small shops and as second operation machines to larger shops.  That didn't begin to change until after WW-II.  During the early and mid 30's, Atlas & Sears also marketed stripped down versions where you could buy the basic lathe and later buy and bolt on the parts to enable threading, back gears, and other functions or operations.  That didn't cease until about the time that the 10F came out.


----------



## craniac

Any 10 C's in the database? Here some pics of the lathe I acquired this spring. It had been given to the PO in a partially dissembled and broken state, no info from the original owner who has passed. Not sure if the switch is original, and I changed the cross slide to a newer one so that I could use the milling attachment that came with. A pretty complete set of accessories came with this lathe, three and 4 jaw chuck, steady and follow rests, drill chuck, centers, faceplate and dogs, some tools bits and the aforementioned milling attachment. The image below shows its new and cluttered shop environment but hopefully gives enough detail. I'm thinking this is ca 1934?  Serial number is C 359.







Tim


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## wa5cab

Tim,

Please confirm that the LOA of the bed ways is about 42".

That is the earliest 10" serial number so far reported.  And the only 10C.  Attached below is a catalog page with a photo showing what was probably originally shipped.  Note no change gear guard, motor switch, back gears, or lead screw.  The half nut operating lever is present but is in the DOWN position because there is nothing behind to hold it up.  A PO, probably the OO, bought the lathe and then within less than a year, bought the back gears, change gear system, etc. to bring it up to what I think at the time would have just been called a 1042 but might have been a 1042D.

Your switch box is original, at least to the add-ons, but the switch mounting plate and switches are not original.  There was only one switch, and it was the style commonly known as a wall switch (or light switch).  I would guess that the second switch on your machine is probably a reversing switch.

I agree that it probably dates from 1934.

It is interesting to note that according to the catalog prices, the total cost with the added upgrades was $106.00.  If he had bought it that way to begin with, the price would have been $105.50.


----------



## craniac

Thanks for the information! The length of bed is 42" The switch plate as you surmise has the forward and reverse switch.

Tim


----------



## NCpatrol

Best guess on this H54 s/n 048871?

Has the QC gear box, babbits.  The thing that throw me is it has the reversing tumbler like my 12" and not the lever like my TH's.


----------



## wa5cab

Your machine was originally bought as an H-54.  Best guess is that it was made in 1943.  "H54" means that it had has a Horizontal countershaft, babbit bearings (with Timken bearings it would have been a TH54), change gears, and a 54" bed, so it is a 10x36.  We know that it was originally a change gear machine, as the first QCGB appeared in mid or late 1947, the model number would have been QC54, and production of babbit bearing machines ceased in about 1945. 

All QCGB equipped machines had tumbler style reversing instead of the FWD-OFF-REV gearbox in front of the headstock..  The GB is a Model 1500.  After about mid-1950, the Model sold was the 6800.  The only significant difference between them is that the early tumbler positioner was a spring loaded pin that fit into one of three holes in a quadrant, like the pins on the GB setting levers.  The 6800 for some reason has a cast one piece lever with a clamp bolt to hold it in one of the three positions.  No one seems to know why they changed to a less desirable way of detenting the lever.

Had you acquired the old FWD-OFF-REV box and the old lead screw, they would bring good money today as they would have had little wear as the QCGB conversion would have occurred before 1950.  So not much wear.


----------



## JPMacG

I have my lathe disassembled to replace the headstock belt, so I noted the bearing dates.   One is 12-20-52, the other is 12-10-52.  The bearing races are 12-18-52 and 12-20-52.


----------



## wa5cab

Thanks.  I updated the DBF file on the local drive and will update the one in Downloads.  

FYI, the more common terminology or names used for the two parts of a separable tapered roller bearing are Cup and Cone.  "Race" or "Outer Race" and "Inner Race" are more commonly applied to ball bearings and self-aligning straight roller bearings.


----------



## jwmay

New acquisition: V36, 028442, fully guarded belts, babbitt bearings that I’ve been told are no good, and power cross feed.  I couldn’t find any  numbers on it, other than the data plate.  Any idea how to get the paint off that emblem without ruining the logo? I already scratched it once.


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## wa5cab

28442 (no leading zero) possibly preceded by V should be stamped into the top of the the front way near the right end in the narrow zone that neither the tailstock nor the carriage run on.

Is the data plate on the rear or the right end of the bed?  I'm trying to determine when that change occurred.

To evaluate the bearings, first slack the spindle belt.  Then set up a dial indicator touching the top of either the spindle flange or the register (unthreaded area between the front of the flange and the last thread).  Obtain about a foot long or more piece of 3/4" diameter solid round bar (preferably steel but aluminum would work).  De-bur one end and slide about 5" of the bar into the spindle. Zero the indicator and then lift the loose end of the bar firmly.  Note and record the indicator reading.  Reposition the indicator to the rear of the flange or register.  Push the end of the bar firmly to the rear and zero the indicator.  Pull the bar firmly toward you and note and record the indicator reading.

Repeat the procedure on the left bearing, with the indicator touching probably the knurled threaded collar that retains the spindle gear and sets the spindle end float.

Then loosen and remove the two hex head bearing cap bolts and remove the bearing caps (upper half of the bearings.  Look for the remains of the two 10D-128 shim packs.  They (or at least the originals) are each shaped like the flat machined faces of the bearing caps, including a hole for the bolt to go through.  Originally, they each consisted of 5 pieces each 0.002" thick, somehow stuck together.  So if you find something under the bearing caps, checking its thickness with a micrometer will reveal how many pieces are left.  You should acquire a 1937 Version 4 of the Atlas Manual Of Lathe Operations (MOLO for short) and read the section on babbit bearings in it.  In Downloads and also for non-donors in the sticky are at the top of this Forum is a MOLO History and a MOLO Version selection chart by lathe model number.

On removing the paint from the Logo tag, I don't know.  Most likely, any paint remover will also remove the decal.  However, if that does happen, you aren't any worse off than you are now.  So I would find the holes in the back side of whatever that is that the tag is attached to, drift out the two round head drive screws and remove the tag from where it is.  Then try a paint remover on just the tag and see what happens.


----------



## craptain

For paint removal in this type of situation I usually use simple green and paper towels. Soak a paper towel with simple green and lay it over the plate. Check it regularly, every 1/4 hour or so and wipe. Simple green will soften and remove the paint, but not like a real paint stripper. Leave it too long and it will remove everything, but taken slowly you can save the printing underneath. Success depends on the type of paint and patience. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## oldschoolcane

My Atlas lathe is a 10, H48 - #51183.


----------



## jwmay

wa5cab said:


> Is the data plate on the rear or the right end of the bed?


  The date plate is on the right end.  Unfortunately, there is no evidence of a number being stamped into the way as has been described.  I've got two Atlas beds and haven't been able to find the number in that location on either.  Possibly it's me, but the description seems simple enough to believe I'm looking in the right spot.  And just in case I'm not, I've been over every square inch of unpainted metal and found only one mark.  Someone, at some point, punched an & symbol into the end of the front way. 

As for the paint:  I had what I'd consider very good success with this hard plastic scraping device that is sold at Wal Mart for cleaning pans with baked on food remnants.  I don' t think the repaint was done correctly, and there's lots of flaking.  So it just took high point force with a non sharp, non marring tool to get it to break out, and flake off.  My daughter is pretty talented with the old paintbrushes, so she's been commissioned to refresh the logo.  

Thank you very much for the information, and the recommendations.  I've found the correct MOLO and have read the section regarding babbitt bearings.  I'll have it ready at hand when I get to that point with this machine.  Just for clarity, are you saying this is most likely a lathe built in 1936-37?


----------



## wa5cab

No, definitely not 1936/37.  The first 10F's (either Timken or Babbit) were made in 1938, probably late Summer.  The two nearest bearing dates on Timken machines that have been reported are 1940/11/28 on 022114 and 1942/05/04 on 032618.  So a quick calculation assuming constant production over that period yields 1941/06/08 as the estimated "bearing date".

One of the reasons that I bought many copies of the MOLO in order to figure out how many versions there were and when, and went to the trouble to write the MOLO History as an aid to figuring out the optimum MOLO version for anyone's lathe was that over the period early 1937 through 1953 Atlas printed 15 Editions and at least 6 versions of the MOLO, all with only Copyright 1937 on the Copyright Page.  The 16th edition printed 1954 and 1955 was the first to show the print year on the Copyright Page.  Most eBay sellers know little or nothing about what they are selling, and as often as not claim that the volume that they are selling must be a first edition if it was copyright 1937 and doesn't say anything about an edition number.  Anyway, between maybe 1934 and 1938, atlas built the 10 through 10E, with the major versions being the 10 and 10D.  The 10A, B, C and E were stripped down models.  One of the numerous differencies between them and the 10F is that when they actually had change gears, they were different from those used on the 10F.  So the threading charts are different.


----------



## steelbridge

Hi folks, I’m new to this forum and have found it to be a great source of information. Thank you all for your valuable input. Last week I bought an Atlas TH-48 from a nice lady in Centereach, NY. It belonged to her husband, but I don’t know when he bought it. I had been thinking about buying a lathe for a long time and started looking at the Chinese stuff, but quickly lost interest in that. When I discovered the Atlas/Craftsman lathes, I knew that was what I wanted. I’m interested in historical things like cars, guns and tools (I have some of each).

Anyway, I saw this lathe on ebay for $1350 or best offer. After watching it for a while I offered $1,000.00 and it was accepted. The next day I picked it up and it sat in the back of my Suburban for a week. I finally dismembered it and stashed it in my basement. As soon as I get the time I’ll build a table and set it up. Taking it apart gave me a good opportunity to see what shape it’s in. Aside from being dirty as all get out, it appears to be in great shape, with nothing broken or overly worn. It came with a three jaw chuck, all the change gears and a couple extra non-Atlas gears, a dial gauge, some micrometers, center drills and a bunch of cutting tools. I think I did well.

Serial number is 042415. Inside of the change gear cover is cast 10F-28. Being a 48” I know it must have been made before 1947. Any guess on the year?

Pete


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## wa5cab

Best guess at the moment is late 1942 or early 1943.  I would like to see a photo of the front of the lathe that clearly shows the front of the headstock.  I would also like to know where the serial number and model number were found.  Choices are stamped into the top of the front way near the right end, stamped on a plate attached to the right end of the bed, or stamped into a plate on the rear of the bed.


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## steelbridge

wa5cab said:


> Best guess at the moment is late 1942 or early 1943.  I would like to see a photo of the front of the lathe that clearly shows the front of the headstock.  I would also like to know where the serial number and model number were found.  Choices are stamped into the top of the front way near the right end, stamped on a plate attached to the right end of the bed, or stamped into a plate on the rear of the bed.


Thanks for the date info. Did Atlas continue to make these lathes during the war?  The model and serial number are on a plate at the right end of the bed, photo attached. I haven't attempted to remove the chuck mounting plate, so the attached picture is the best I can do at the moment. By the way the bolts attaching the chuck were a weird size. 1/2 inch is too small and 9/16 too big. 13mm too small and 14mm too big. I don't have a 17/32 or 13 1/2mm wrench, so had to use an adjustable.


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## wa5cab

Yes, Atlas probably made more lathes during the War years than they did before or after.

The plate that is still attached to the spindle is called the backing plate.  Hopefully you match marked the chuck body and backing plate before you removed the chuck body.  If you didn't, when you put it back on, you will have to temporarily mark the four holes in the backing plate 1, 2, 3, 4.  And mark one of the four holes in the chuck body with an ID mark.  Holes should be such that they are visible with the body on the plate.  Then re-mount the body to the backing plate @ #1.  Install a precision ground round bar in the chuck (a piston wrist pin for an automotive engine will be OK).  Measure and record the runout.  Do not remove the pin.  Remove the body from the plate and reinstall it with the ID mark @2m then 3, then 4, recording the runout at each position.  Pick the lowest runout and reinstall the chuck body with the ID mark at that hole.  Remove the temporary marks.

Before you go though reinstalling the chuck body in the correct position, apply some good penetrating oil on the threads on both sides of the backing plate (WD40 is good for several things but is a poor penetrating oil.  After you get the body re-mounted, rotate the chuck and spindle until the socket for the chuck wrench is at about 11:00 O'clock.  Put the wrench in the socket.  Lock the spindle by engaging the back gears without pulling out the direct drive pin (confirm that the pin is all of the way in).  Grasp the chuck wrench firmly with both hands.  Push the wrench away from you as far as it will go.  Pull the wrench toward you smartly.  If necessary, repeat.  When the threads break loose, remove the complete chuck from the spindle.

If four tries doesn't break it loose, you officially have a stuck chuck, which is a different subject.


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## steelbridge

Thanks for the advice. Of course I didn't think about match marking the chuck so I'll follow your suggestion. I might even have a wrist pin somewhere.


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## wa5cab

I forgot to add that if the chuck is made in England, as some chucks for the A/C machines were, the three bolts (post originally said four by mistake) holding the chuck body to the backing plate may be either BSF (British Standard Fine) or less likely, BW (British Whitworth).  BSF (the fine thread) and BW (the coarse thread) are both inch-based fasteners.  The basic diameters are for example 1/4", 5/16", 3/8" etc..  But the thread pitches are different from UNF and UNC, and the bolt heads are slightly larger.  As you said that 1/2" is too small and 9/16" is too large, the bolts may be 5/16" BSF.


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## steelbridge

wa5cab said:


> I forgot to add that if the chuck is made in England, as some chucks for the A/C machines were, the four bolts holding the chuck body to the backing plate may be either BSF (British Standard Fine) or less likely, BW (British Whitworth).  BSF (the fine thread) and BW (the coarse thread) are both inch-based fasteners.  The basic diameters are for example 1/4", 5/16", 3/8" etc..  But the thread pitches are different from UNF and UNC, and the bolt heads are slightly larger.  As you said that 1/2" is too small and 9/16" is too large, the bolts may be 5/16" BSF.


Note from the photo that the backing plate has only 3 bolt holes. Any thoughts on that? When I get a chance, I'll measure the threads and bolt heads and post them.


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## wa5cab

Yeah, I have no idea why I wrote four. You would only find multiples of four on a 4-jaw.

Light duty 3-jaw chucks and adapter plates will have three.


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## WCraig

Another Atlas 10-F for your records:

Model:  TH54
Serial: 063469







Let me know if you need any more info.

Craig


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## DiscoDan

I realized I never added mine to your list. It's a 12x36 101.28940 SN000436 with the 48" bed and QCGB.


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## wa5cab

WCraig said:


> Another Atlas 10-F for your records:
> 
> Model:  TH54
> Serial: 063469
> 
> 
> Let me know if you need any more info.
> 
> Craig



Thanks.  Probably made 1945.  It looks nearly new.  Or that's an excellent repaint job!


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## wa5cab

DiscoDan said:


> I realized I never added mine to your list. It's a 12x36 101.28940 SN000436 with the 48" bed and QCGB.


Thanks.  I've added it.

But minor correction.  That one has a 54" bed.  Atlas quit making 36" and 48" beds circa 1947, and never made a 48" one with half inch ways.


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## DiscoDan

wa5cab said:


> Thanks.  I've added it.
> 
> But minor correction.  That one has a 54" bed.  Atlas quit making 36" and 48" beds circa 1947, and never made a 48" one with half inch ways.



I was measuring from the headstock just under the chuck. Thanks for the correction. And FYI, you don't see the QCGB because it is off for repair of the handles.


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## WCraig

wa5cab said:


> Thanks.  Probably made 1945.  It looks nearly new.  Or that's an excellent repaint job!


Thanks, I was guessing it was a lot younger than that.  AFAICT, I think it is the original paint.  I'm going to get my mikes out but I think there is very little wear in the bed.  Certainly nothing I can see or feel with my finger.  

The bad news is that the countershaft 'went for a walk'.  The previous owner (now 90) had the lathe for about 25 years and never used it.  He didn't realize there was supposed to be a countershaft!  The motor pulley and both covers for the headstock are also missing and presumably hiding with the countershaft.  Fingers crossed, I may have a source for at least the countershaft.  I do have a motor stashed away that ought to work.

Craig


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## wa5cab

Too bad about the missing parts.  Given the paint condition, if those were present the machine would look almost new.

The first 10F's were produced in late 1938. and the last one sometime in 1957.  The highest reported serial number is 091854.  Based on reported serial numbers (and considerably fewer reported bearing dates) the data indicates that except for the first roughly 5000 QC models, the entire 10" production used the same serial number pool.  Meaning that the first production 10F was somewhere around serial number 009000 and not serial number 000001.  Which helps date the babbit bearing models.  And based on the data, we think that nearly 100,000 10" of all models were made including the roughly 5000 QC's mentioned previously).

Anyway, the estimated date on your machine is probably good to +/- about a year.


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## bill70j

wa5cab said:


> Anyway, anyone with a 10" who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number (which includes bed length), serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).
> Thanks, Robert D.


Robert:

I finally got the software to download your database.  I wanted to supply info on my Atlas QC42.  And lo and behold, I found that someone had already entered the info - a previous owner, I presume!!  SN 084882

Please let me know how and what information I should supply, reflecting the change of ownership.  And also, I would love to find out who the previous was.  Almost as exciting as a juicy segment of Forensic Files.

Thanks,  Bill

*The CraigsList Photo of the Machine that I acquired in Jan, 2017 for $675.*


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## wa5cab

As long as I've been doing this, this is the first time that someone has reported buying a lathe and finding it already in the database.  

You have the database record.  I'll take care of the change of ownership.  If there is anything that you want to add on the lathe, just write it here along with the serial number and I'll add it.

The previous owner was someone named Dave.  He hasn't been on the site since 2016.  He was in Tipp City, OH.  And that's the only personal info that I have.


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## bill70j

wa5cab said:


> If there is anything that you want to add on the lathe, just write it here along with the serial number and I'll add it.


Thanks, Robert.  

Here is some updated/new information for this lathe, SN 084882:

OWNER,C,80 - Bill Buckalew.  USA/CA/Los Osos
COST_ACQD,C,40 - $675
ACQUIRED,C,63 - Jan, 2017 CraigsList Purchase
NOTES,1,C,254 - Craftsman 3/4HP motor(dated 1962), 3&4 Jaw Chucks, Drive plate, Face plate, 9" South Bend Steady Rest, Lantern Tool Post, 9 Tool Holders, Jacobs 3B Drill Chuck, Jacobs #100 Armature Chuck,  ~100 HSS & carbide tool bits, MT2 Drill Bits


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## wa5cab

OK.  Got it.


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## WCraig

From a local (Oakville, Ontario, Canada) Kijiji listing:







If I squint, I think I see "O12180".  Appears to have pretty significant wear to the bed:






Listing is currently at:

Atlas 618 Lathe, metal

Craig


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## wa5cab

I take it that the ad didn't give the serial number.  The first character is a zero, not an oh.  The fifth one is probably an 8.  But the third one to me looks more like a 9.  Too bad that he didn't list the serial number in the text.


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## WCraig

wa5cab said:


> I take it that the ad didn't give the serial number.  The first character is a zero, not an oh.  The fifth one is probably an 8.  But the third one to me looks more like a 9.  Too bad that he didn't list the serial number in the text.


The third digit is hard to read.  I've asked the seller to check but who knows if they'll follow up.  The following is my best (feeble) attempt to enhance:




Craig


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## wa5cab

He probably won't but if he does, please report it.


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## WCraig

wa5cab said:


> He probably won't but if he does, please report it.


Surprising both of us, he was quick to respond.  Seller says:


> its old but its has roller tapered roller bearings and not bushings like the early ones. serial number is 013180



I know you can't tell exactly, but what range of years does that put this one in?

Craig


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## WCraig

Well, it is Atlas 618 week here in on Ontario.  Another listed on Kijiji.  Seller says serial number is 019235 but photo is tough to decipher.  Pics:















						Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds
					

Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




					www.kijiji.ca
				




Currently listed at $500 Canadian.  Appears to have a user-built milling attachment and a new 3 jaw chuck.

Craig


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## wa5cab

WCraig said:


> Surprising both of us, he was quick to respond.  Seller says:
> 
> >>its old but its has roller tapered roller bearings and not bushings like the early ones. serial number is 013180
> 
> I know you can't tell exactly, but what range of years does that put this one in?
> 
> Craig




We don't have what I would call a single accurate 618 date.  But assuming 28,000 made between 1937 and 1972 and constant production rate would put it in mid 1954.

The seller has obviously read the Internet Disinformation about the early 618's having sleeve bearings.  They did not.  That was the Craftsman 101.07301 which first appeared two years later in 1939.  When the 618 first appeared the Summer of 1937, it had the same Timken bearings that the last one did.  There were remarkably few changes ever made to the 618 and fewer to the -07301.


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## WCraig

Another 618 for the serial number db:








Apparently in pretty nice condition but the seller is dreaming asking for CDN $1,400--without a motor or bench to mount it on!

Craig


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## wa5cab

I agree.  If it were a 10", it probably still wouldn't bring that much.  There is very little visible bed wear and it is cleaner than most are.  Looks to have everything tha it came with from the factory plus a few minor additions.

Minor correction - it appears to be missing the large countershaft pulley and the motor mounting bracket.


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## Jan the man

wa5cab said:


> I hadn't previously noticed it probably because looking back I see that almost all age related questions the past year have been for 12".  In the combined machine database (408 entries to date) there are only 74 10" entries, a third of which show no serial numbers.  And there is a large jump or blank range in the 10" serial numbers.  They meander up to a little over 8000 and then skip to over 17000.  Plus we only have three supposed bearing dates, one of which does not track with the other two.  Meaning that it is about 13000 smaller than one with almost the same date.
> 
> Anyway, anyone with a 10" who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number (which includes bed length), serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).
> 
> ADDENDA:  the same comments (where applicable) apply to Atlas mills, shapers, drill presses, and saws.
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.


I have Atlas 10F TH42 serial number 048567. It has Timken bearings! It does not have the quick change gear box. I have no idea what year it was made. I would like to know !


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## Jan the man

I have an Atlas 10F TH42 serial number 048567. It has Timken bearings! It does not have the quick change gear box. I have no idea what year it was made. It does not have the full covers for the gears, it has the one over the bull gear. I hope this helps.  Jan the Man


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  Your machine was probably made in 1943.  

If you ever have some reason to pull the spindle, please record and report the dates that should be found hand  engraved on both the left and right bearing cups and cones.


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## Jan the man

I will do that, but not to likely.


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## DiscoDan

Wa5cab, I picked up something today that may help with dates. I found a box that had SEARS printed on it. Inside was a MOLO dated 1937, an undated threading supplement for the Craftsman lathe and a parts list for a 101.07383 that was dated December 1941. On page 2 (I think) there was mention of a model with a number 101.07403, or something close to that and it was being dated in 1938 or 1939 I think. So my parts list date may help with dates. I am having trouble uploading pics. It keeps telling me they are too big even when I resize them. Will keep trying.


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## DiscoDan

My reference to page 2 in my post above refers to page 2 of this thread


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## DiscoDan

OK, I found your reference in post #66:

1937  101.07400
1938  101.07401
1939  101.07402
1940  101.07403

I guess the 1941 date on the parts list could mean it was printed at a later date but not sure why they would do that when it appears they changed model numbers at least annually.

So I am curious as to MOLOs....did they print new ones every year? So would the 1937 MOLO be appropriate for a 101.07383 lathe?


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## craptain

DiscoDan said:


> .
> 
> So I am curious as to MOLOs....did they print new ones every year? So would the 1937 MOLO be appropriate for a 101.07383 lathe?



I don't know about every year, but certainly frequently. Basically any copy is useful for any lathe operation. They are not specific to one machine, rather a range of machines, and in fact lathes in general. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## wa5cab

Dan,

Thanks.  If you have a scanner, scan the parts lists at 600 dpi to either a PDF or a TIF and send them to me at wa5cab@cs.com

Here's what we now know or think that we know about dates and/or model numbers of the MOLO and the Craftsman 3/8" bed 12" machines.

The MOLO was first printed in 1937.  The First Edition was Exact bound (glue and staples).  The front cover looked pretty much the same as all subsequent editions except that it did not have the drawing of an outside micrometer on it.  What color the covers were is not known.  No copy is currently known to exist. 

Probably the following year, it was reprinted, probably with the same contents, but the cover was dark blue, the micrometer was added to the front cover, and they used one piece spiral wire binding.  The contents were probably the same, and the copyright page still said Copyright 1937.  Probably in 1939, the cover color was changed to black.  Between then and 1953, the only change to the copyright page was first the addition and then the deletion of "Price One Dollar".  The first 15 editions all said Copyright 1937.  In 1954, there were several changes,  Coverage of the QCGB was added in Part 7 Threading.  The Copyright page began to show an edition number, and the cumulative list of years in which the book was reprinted.

The one-piece spiral wire binding became two-piece and then 3-piece.  At some point, probably near the end of WW-II, the binding changed to GBC (white plastic fingers).  For more details, see MOLO HistoryRev6.pdf in Downloads.  And the companion MOLO To Machine App Rev3.pdf.

On the Craftsman lathe models and dates, there were a total of 14 models of the 3/8" bed 12" produced between 1936 and 1957.  Except for the final two, the model number did not define the bed length.  If it had, there would have been 38 different model numbers.  In 1936 the 12" first appears in the Craftsman Power Tools catalog.  There were two models, the 101.07380 with back gears and the 101.07360 without.  Both had babbit bearings, 5/8" dia. lead screws, no power cross-feed, and 3/8" face change gears.  And both were produced in four different bed lengths.  In 1937, the 101.07400 with Timken bearings  and full belt guards appeared.  The model numbers were incremented with for some reason the Timken model lagging by a year.  Various changes were made up until 1939 for the babbit bearing and 1940 for the Timken model.  The change gears were changed to the -A rev with 1/2" hub length and 64T maximum number of teeth on the 101.07xx2 models.  And in 1940 the 101.07403 added the power cross feed.  The babbit models were discontinued around 1945.  The 36" and 48" beds were discontinued around 1947.  The QCGB came out in about 1952, and for the first time, the model number defined what bed length the machine had.  Production of the 3/8" bed models ceased sometime in 1957.


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## DiscoDan

Thanks for that info. The MOLO I have looks black to me, has the 3-piece spiral binding and says "Price One Dollar". I don't have a working scanner at home so I will do it later this week when I go into my work office.


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## wa5cab

OK.  But I don't need a scan of anything in the MOLO.  I have some 30 originals  and am pretty sure that one of them is just like the one that you have.  What I was talking about scanning were the parts lists and associated paperwork.  It's possible that I may already have it/them but I don't recall having anything dated where the date is that early.


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## DiscoDan

Got it, just the part list.


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## DiscoDan

wa5cab, here is the parts list. Note the date of Dec. 1941 on the very last page.


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  Of the 5 or 6 101.07383 parts lists that we have copies of, this is the only one dated.  I'll try to compare prices of the ones that have them and use that to try to place them chronologically.


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## mwal689

Hello. New here. Hoping to find a production date for my back geared 10F. No plate on the end of the bed. H17012 stamped on the end of the ways.

I bought this lathe about 20 years ago at an estate sale in Chicago. Power cross feed activated by pulling out a knob.

Thoughts?


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## Jan the man

That is what I have and mine was made in 1943.
My lathe has a plate on it but no number on the end of the ways.


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## wa5cab

Sometime in the early 1940's Atlas changed from a nameplate on the rear of the bed with the model number stamped on it and with the serial number stamped on top and near the right end of the front ways to a nameplate on the right end of the bed with model number and serial number stamped thereon.  From the early 1930's until circa 1953 each cup and cone of the two spindle bearings had what we assume was the inspection date hand engraved on it.  We ask all owners who for any reason pull the spindle to report serial number and dates.  

We know from reported examples that Atlas did not practice strict First In - First Out inventory management but the bearing dates are taken as the manufacturing date +/- about one year.  So the serial numbers are used with known bearing dates to approximately date machines that have no reported bearing dates.  The current worst case overlap is about 11 months.  We also are fairly certain that all 10" models shared the same serial number pool.  We are fairly certain that this was not true of the Craftsman 12" but that each model number had its own serial number pool.

Atlas 9" and 10" up through the 10D and E had a model number that consisted of the nominal size (swing) plus the bed length in inches plus a suffix letter.  Beginning with the 10F, this changed to one or two letters plus the bed length.  The letters were "T" for Timken headstock bearings or nothing for Babbit.  Plus H for Horizontal or V for Vertical countershaft.  Plus the bed length.  Exceptions are the first few thousand Quick Change models where the serial number started over at "1".  Later QC models went back to using the same pool of numbers as the change gear models.

Various letters were sometimes stamped to the left of the serial number.  The "H" probably means Horizontal countershaft.  The letter "S" is often found on early beds on both 10" and 12" but no one knows what it means.  A, B, C, D and E was most likely the lathe's initial model or completeness indicator.

That all having been said, serial number 17012 was probably made in 1939.  If you will report the bed length (choices are 36, 42,48 or 54) we can deduce the model number.


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## mwal689

Thanks for the synopsis. I noticed tonight that the ways are actually stamped H17012S, and are 42 inches long.


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## wa5cab

mwal689,

(you should set up your signature - click on your User ID in the main toolbar, then on Signature)

OK.  You haven't said specifically, but confirm that your headstock has babbit spindle bearings.  In which case the model number is H42.

On the meaning of the "S" suffix, we still have no real clues.  About all that I can say is that it appears on both Atlas and Craftsman machines from around 1936, so it doesn't mean "Sears".  It seems to have stopped in 1940 on the 10" and in 1945 on the 12".  Beyond that, we haven't a clue.  Your headstock should have an oval instead of rectangular switch plate on the front of the headstock.  

You can somewhat evaluate the amount of wear on the spindle bearings by slackening the belts, removing the motor belt,  and carefully removing the bearing caps.  There should be a shim pack under each end of the caps.  From the factory, the pack was 0.010" thick.  They were each made up of five 0.002" shims laminated together.  Any edition of the Atlas MOLO (Manual Of Lathe Operation) up through 1953 (all will say Copyright 1937 on the Copyright page) gives the adjustment procedure.  If the spindle is too loose, you can peel off 0.002" at a time.

You can somewhat evaluate bed wear with a 0-1 micrometer.  Measure the thickness of both ways near the right end of the bed where there should be no visible signs of wear.  From the factory, the original thickness was a nominal 0.375".  Use the actual figure as you baseline.  Measure the actual thickness of the front and rear way about every 6" from the right end up to about 3" from the headstock.  Then measure the width of the front and rear way in the same pattern.


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## mwal689

Thanks again. I will make those measurements. When I fill the oil cup on the front of the spindle, and run the machine, the oil just runs down the face. So, I suspect the bearings (whichever type) are worn, even though I cannot measure any appreciable spindle runout.


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## wa5cab

I would suggest that you get and install two of the felt oil cup plugs.  Clausing still carries them unless you already have the proper arch punch size and some suitable felt.


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## mwal689

Clausing says they no longer carry them. I could not find any dimensions in the MOLO for the felts. Did I miss it?


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## wa5cab

Did you ask for 557-047 or 557-097?  Early Commercial parts lists show -047 and later ones show -097 and it's possible that they may have forgotten that.  

The MOLO doesn't have any parts drawings.  And as Clausing had always had them, I never bothered to make a drawing.  I'll try to remember to call them tomorrow (or Tuesday if they are closed tomorrow) and if they do no longer have them, ask for the drawing.

Another option would be to contact the eBay seller who for the past several years has had the felt way oilers and rubber way wipers and ask them to start supplying them.  

I realize that they would be an easy part to make but besides having to buy an arch punch set, the felt sheets from a hobby store will make a bzillion of them but by the time that you need to make two more, you will probably have lost the sheet.


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## wa5cab

I just spoke with someone at Clausing.  Under the original part number (557-047) they have over 1900 in stock @ $1.00 each.  And under the erroneous part number (557-097) they show nothing.  So either whomever I ordered some from back when knew about the error or there was at one time a cross reference or note in their inventory database that someone has since deleted.  The person to whom I spoke today didn't know about the error in all of the 1975 vintage parts lists.  The same felt plug is also used in the arm of the cross-feed engagement lever assembly.  And there, the correct part number is shown.  As it is in both places in at least all of the earlier parts lists for the 12" 1/2" bed machines that I checked.

So I would call them again and ask for the 557-047 part number.  But a word of warning - Clausing uses UPS for all of their shipping.  And UPS shipping rates are only in one pound increments.  So unless you want to pay more for the shipping than the parts cost, you should order something else at the same time.


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## mwal689

Well, thank you for the detective work! Not sure what else I would order from them, other than the way wiper felts kit. Anything else considered consumable? Replaced the drive belt recently, and the only non-stock part I could find, the motor drive pulley, I am making from scratch. The hardened pins that hold the compound rest and milling attachment in place are worn. MOLO calls that 10-309. Is that a part number Clausing will recognize?


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## wa5cab

If you order new felt way oilers, you should also order the rubber way wipers.  My 3996 is currently the newest one known (made the Summer of 1980) and I should probably have replaced them 10 years earlier.

Yes, 10-309 is the part number for the compound and milling attachment's beveled lock pins.  Clausing probably has them.  However, if the only visible wear is that the beveled surface has a shallow shape of the inverted cone that they lock against worn into it, they probably don't need replacement.  But if the diameter of the rod is noticeably worn, then they do.

Where in any MOLO does it show any part numbers?  MOLO is short for Manual Of Lathe Operation and Machinists Tables.


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## mwal689

I'll definitely get the wipers. I wonder if I can pick the parts up to avoid shipping. I work in Kalamazoo after all.

I was speaking imprecisely about the MOLO. I bought a MOLO from a guy in England who included several other docs in the binding including a parts list.


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## wa5cab

Well, aren't you the lucky one.  But I would at least this first time call the order in.  I have no idea whether or how they are organized for local drop-in customers.

OK on the MOLO subject.


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## wa5cab

One other general background point that I'll make is that sometime in the 1970's, Clausing changed all gibs except for the carriage  and tailstock ones from steel to plastic.  Unfortunately, plastic is much more compressible than steel.  But if you today order what appears to be the steel part number, you will get a plastic one instead.  So if you decide that you need to replace a compound, cross slide or milling attachment gib, don't order one from Clausing.  Send me a PM instead.


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## frankonthetis

wa5cab,  Are you still collecting Atlas 10 information?  We were gifted a real old 10D but right now it is in pieces.  Never took pictures of the complete unit as thought we were just getting the various parts less the headstock, bed & tailstock.  The bed is 54" long, Babbitt bearings, think the number stamped on the bed is D7605, but the letter & numbers are quite faded.  We believe it is from around 1937 from looking at the Atlas catalogues.  The friend who passed it to us said his dad used it during the war at the Jericho military depot in Vancouver, B.C. Canada.  His father bought it in 1947 when they closed the fabricating facility down.  It has sat for years in an unheated barn but is coming apart quite easily.  The lead screw is 5/8", no power cross feed, horizontal motor mount but missing the motor mount plate.  It came with homemade steady rest and milling attachment and a bunch of milling cutters.  It came with the old tool post, holders & cutting tools, 4 chucks including 1 small Craftsman 4 jaw chuck and a bunch of other stuff.   While the machine is apart are there other pictures you would like to see.

Frank


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## wa5cab

Is there a letter "S" to the right of the serial #?  Or could the "5" be an "S"?  Maybe make a closeup photo of the serial number.

The legs are the wider asymmetrical ones like found on the 10F.  All of the photos I've seen of 10D's show the symmetrical rectangular ones.  So maybe 1938 just before the 10F came out.  And the horizontal countershaft is later, too.   Generally associated with the 10F.  But the 5/8" lead screw does make it a 10D.

Is the milling attachment also home made?


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## frankonthetis

It could be, here are a couple of pics of the numbers but really hard to read.  Maybe you can make out serial #'s.  Does the D & 760 5/S make sense from a serial # perspective?  The 7 looks different, could it be a 2?
Yes, what we think is the milling attachment looks homemade.  Would you like a picture of the steady rest and milling attachment?  Can try to get a better picture of the serial number but no natural light.


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## frankonthetis

addendum to post #430, the motor mount is vertical, not horizontal.  Sorry.


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## wa5cab

OK on the motor mount.  We can go back to the Horizontal countershaft appearing with the 10F.

Forget what I said about the legs.  The only parts list that we have an original of that is older than the 10F is on the 10E and it shows (reminds me) that the asymmetric leg part number is 10D-150.

I think that you have the part number correct.  The "5" couldn't be an "S" because the easily visible mark is straight and vertical, whereas an "S" would have been curved.   And serial number 760 would have been much too low for a "D".  

The model numbering system for the 10 through 10E was the "10" plus bed length plus nothing or a suffix letter (A through E).  The 10A through 10C were the same as the 10 but less some of the components like change gears, back gears, carriage, guards, etc. .  What came with the 10, 10A, 10B or 10C is shown in Catalog 15, which we have.  The  complete machine was just 1036, 1042, 1048 or 1054.  The 10E is a 10D less back gears, change gears and guards.  The full model number of your lathe is 1054D


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## frankonthetis

Okay, good to know our lathe is a Model 1054D.  Going to try to high lite those bed numbers with a soapstone chalk pencil to see if they can be made more legible.  If that first letter/digit was a 1 instead of what I think is D would 1 7605 be more in line for a 10D serial number if 760 is too low for the D machines?   When we get the compound, cross slide & saddle off the bed, would you like me to take pictures of any parts numbers on the those items plus the bed & legs?  Would having parts numbers off the other machine pieces be of any use for your records?  The lathe needs to be taken apart for cleaning so it would be easy to get pictures of parts numbers if shown.


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## wa5cab

S/N 17605 would put it in 1940, and we have several 10F's reported with 5-digit serial numbers beginning with "17".  If the "D" were a "1" it would be slightly to the right.  The consistency with how the serial numbers were stamped (character spacing and orientation) indicates that they were stamped all at once with the characters all in a holder.  Although I'm sure that they must of had 10D's still on the shelf after the first 10F was made, there is no indication that they continued to make 10D's after the introduction of the 10F.  So if there is any overlap in the serial numbers of the "D" and the "F", we don't have any reported examples and the quantity must have been small.

I don't think that you need to bother with photos of the parts as you disassemble the lathe.  The casting and part number of the headstock  should be 10D-2 and the saddle and apron casting should be 10D-9.  Those are two parts that available information indicates are unique to the 10D and 10E.


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## frankonthetis

Okay, will let you know if the serial number becomes more readable after applying soapstone.  Thanks for all your information.


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## Grinderman

i thought I would add my lathe to the list. Any idea when this would have been made?
Thanks


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## wa5cab

Best guess would be March 1946 +/- 6 months.


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## Saiga556

Craftsman Commercial 12
MODEL 
101.28990
SERIAL NUMBER 
105099

Plastic gibs in Cross Slide, Carriage, and Milling attachment.

Lathe was purchased for the family farm by my father in about 1974 and shipped to Loma, Colorado.  Ordered with Craftsman tool post die grinder, endmill holder, milling attachment, steady rest, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, and the lathe is a cabinet (underdrive) model. 

Aside from a cheap QCTH and some basic tooling I have only begun to "restore" the lathe and have been learning it's capabilities and limitations. 

   I have been considering building a longer Cross Slide with t-slots to accept a rear tool post to aid in parting.


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## wa5cab

Got it.  Thanks.


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## G3farms

Been in a shed for 55+ years, will need to be gone through, pretty rusty. Everything should be there, 3 jaw, 4 jaw, face plate, steady rest, follow rest, tool post grinder, all the change gears, drill chucks and more.


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## wa5cab

OK.  Probable date of manufacture 1951/First quarter.  See thread below.


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## BlackKnight0739

Hello! I just got my first lathe yesterday, and I spent the day trying to find any definite information, but I’m hitting a road block. To the best of my knowledge, it’s an Atlas 10F-28 with babbitt bearings and a 3/4” lead screw, made somewhere between 1937-1954, but it’s hard to find more than that. I’m interested in learning the story behind this magnificent machine, and I was hoping you guys and gals can help me with that! 

The lathe looks to be in amazing shape to my uneducated eye, but identifying information is difficult to find! There are no stamp marks on the bearings, and no label plate at the end of the bed, but I do have a “V 18004 S” stamped at the end of the bed and a “954” cast into the middle of the inside of the bed. Someone also engraved a “K186736” on the end of the bed as well, I’m not sure if that has any relevance but I thought I’d include it lol. I took a bunch of photos to see if there is any other info I needed to include in this post but didn’t lol. Is this enough to help get the full model number/SN, is there somewhere I didn’t look? Thanks in advance for all your help!


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## wa5cab

OK.  It is a 10F but the model number is "V" (for the Vertical countershaft that it came with) plus "54", a 2-digit number that is the nominal bed length.  Choices are 36, 42, 48 and 54.  Those happen to correspond to a nominal maximum distance between centers of 18", 24", 30" and 36".  So your machine would be generically referred to as a 10x36.  The 954 cast into the bed is the casting part number.  And the first part of the finished part number.  Which is probably 954B.  You will find similar numbers cast into all of the cast iron parts plus almost all of the gears.  Except that the cast Zamak parts had any suffix letters also cast in.  This is true of the cast iron parts only if the casting changed when the revision letter suffix was added. 

The serial number is 018004.  No one still alive seems to know what the "S" stood for.  It is found on at least some of the 10" and also on some of the early Craftsman 12".  So it doesn't stand for "SEARS:.

The 10F Series was made from late 1938 until mid 1957.  However, production of the babbit bearing models ceased in 1945.  From the serial number, I would guess that your machine was made in 1940.  During the period up to about 1952, the Timken bearings had a date engraved in both the cups and the cones.  But no dates are found on the babbit bearings.  The K186736 is probably the original owner's plant account or serial number.  Up until about 1942, the serial number and one or two prefix letters and sometimes the suffix "S" was stamped into the top right end of the front way, and a name plate with the model number was affixed to the rear of the bed.  Those are often missing but if you look, you should be able to find the two holes for the round head drive screws that attached it.  The red paint is not original, and for whatever reason, most owners who repainted their machines removed the plate and screws and never bothered to re-install them.  Around 1942, the nameplate moved to the right end of the bed and included the serial number.  Again, many are missing.  Which means that there is no way to roughly date the babbit bearing machines except for the dates engraved into the Timken bearings and a comparison of the serial numbers if known.


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## BlackKnight0739

Thanks for all the info! I really appreciate it!


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## Exuptoy

As posted in the welcome section I thought I'd add this in here.
I just purchased an Atlas TV36 10F which came with a pile of change gears, 4 inch and 5 inch Crown 3 jaws, a 5 inch Bernerd 4 jaw, tail stock, face plate, travel steady, vertical 500A milling attachment and some sort of hang off gearbox which looks home made.
The backgear pin seems to be missing the detent ball and spring so the pin isn't properly located, the motor only has one pulley whereas the vertical wheel has two so I only have wheel A for speed selection. There is some lash maybe 10 degrees on the main carriage hand wheel but none on the cross travel. I'd love to find out how to adjust this (or repair it - I do have a spare lead screw) and I need to swap out some gears to slow down the traverse speed as it is way too quick when on power feed. I did try it in backgear mode when trying to part some aluminium but there seems no guts to the machine so I put the speed back up.

Any information on the origin of the machine would also be appreciated.

The power feeds work forward, backward and cross travel in both directions.
I found a page on Lathes.co.uk showing an invoice from April 1941 with the serial number 024444 and mine’s a TV36 with the serial 024428 so I’d assume is a similar vintage at 1941?.

The centre of the indexable toolpost is about 5mm too high with a 1/2 inch tool although one face has been machined to take 12mm tools but I did acquire some smaller carbide tipped tools which arrived today. The spare lead screw looks to be standard.

The gears with the machine are as follows.

1 x gear carrier stub to mount 2 gears on(not sure what it’s called)
4 x 9101-20A
2 x 9101-24A
3 x transfer gears 16/32 compound gears
2 x 32 (1x thicker)
36A
2 x 40A
44
46
48A
52
54
54A
56A
64A

The home made gearbox has
40/18/30/18

The lathe is running
64
20/44 compound
44
32/16 compound (16 not used)
And finally the 32 tooth head gear.

Any info would be appreciated.


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## wa5cab

*Exuptoy,*

Welcome aboard.  Your assumption that the machine was made just before 02444 is almost certainly valid.  Especially as the machine was found in Britain.  It appears to be fairly well equipped.  And appears to be in good condition.  The story on the gears is as follows.  The basic part number for all of the change gears is the same, 9-101-nn.  The "9" means that the original part first appeared on the Atlas 9" lathe.  "101" is just an arbitrary sequence number assigned while the 9" was being designed.  And "nn" is the gear tooth count.  The original gears had a 3/8" hub length and a 3/8" face (the tooth length). 

At the introduction of the Atlas 10F Series, the change gears were changed to a hub length of 1/2" with the face remaining at 3/8".  This change is indicated by a suffix "A" to the part number.  I have always assumed that the change was done to guarantee that even with misalignment and running clearance, the teeth on any gear in the Back position could never touch the teeth on any gear in the Front position, or vice versa.  So you should go back through the gears that you have, as well as the studs and double-keyed bushings checking their length.  If you have any gears with 1/2" hub length and 1/2" face, when you get the lathe working, you can modify them to be like the A-suffix gears and then they will be usable.  If you have any gears with 3/8" hub length, the only way that you can use them would be to make two 1/16" thick double-keyway  spacers for each 3/8" hub length gear.  If you have any double-keyed bushings or shoulder bushings that are 3/4" long, those you cannot use.  And although I don't know the length right off, the same goes for any studs that are too short.  Probably you can sell those parts to someone with an earlier model 9", 10" or 12" Atlas or Atlas-built lathe.

The tool post that came with the lathe (the lantern-style one) was made to hold 3/8" square cutters.  And if you later decide to add a quick-change tool post, the correct size for the 10" is the AXA, which also was made to use 3/8" tooling.

As you are already a Donor, you have access to Downloads.  Go to the Atlas-Craftsman folder and to the manuals sub-folder below that and download the 1945 edition of the illustrated parts list.  As far as I recall, the only significant change made to the 10F during the War was a modification to the headstock casting.  So that and the motor switch mounting hardware should be the only part numbers that don't match your machine.  We do have some earlier parts lists but the 1945 one is the first illustrated one, so it is better to use than the earlier section view and list of parts versions.

Also, running the machine in back gear should have greatly increased the available torque, not decreased it.

And although I didn't try to figure out what the change gears are set for, they are definitely not set for turning.  Probably set for some fairly coarse pitch thread.  Without even looking at the chart, if you replaced that 20T gear on front of the first gear after the Stud Gear with the largest gear still available and mesh it with the 16T instead of the 32T on the compound stud gear, you would cut the travel rate in half.

If your list of gears includes those on the machine, then you are missing a second 64T.


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## Exuptoy

Thank you for that. There is a second 64T in my selection, one suffixed A. The list showing what the lathe is running is the gears currently fitted over and above the ones on the first part of the list. If I have a 3/8 / 3/8 gear could I just fit a 1/16th washer in between which is large enough to fit over the double keyway? Technically is cannot move anywhere.
I may try and set it up for metric threading and just be done with it.
It seems I am also missing the correct motor pulley as I only have speed selection A available. 
I think the motor slowed down in backgear due to either a tired motor or slipping belts. Once I’ve got the cabinet made I will start to go through what I have and get the maintenance and adjustments set up.


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## wa5cab

On the gears, if a gear has the Atlas part # cast into it of the form "9-101-nnA", the gear is from Atlas and is made for the 10F (or for the Craftsman 101.07403 and all later up through 1981) and is usable.  If it has the number but does NOT have the "A" suffix, it is from Atlas but was made for the earlier 10" (or earlier Craftsman 12") and would be usable with two 1/16" spacers.  If the gear does not have the part numbers but does have the correct ID configuration and hub length (1/2"), then it is usable but if the gear tooth face is also 1/2", then it will be usable if you face off 1/16" thickness from each side.  After doing the facing, I would write the Atlas part number on one side for easier future selection.

Using a 1/16" thick spacer that has an ID large enough to fit over the double keys on the bushing probably won't work because I don't think there will be anything for it to fit against the is 3/8" thick.  So it would just rattle around between the two gears and between the one gear and the shoulder on the shouldered bushing or between the washer and nut and the gear on the outside end of the stack.

On the motor question, motors do not "just get tired".  Everything that can go wrong with a motor would affect it the same whether in back gear or direct drive.

For a 2-step motor pulley, in Downloads you will find an after-market drawing of the later pulley with the 5/8" bore.  Several pulleys have been made by that drawing.  If your motor happens to have an output shaft that is 1/2" in diameter instead of the later standard of 5/8" (0.625"), then use the drawing but make it with a 1/2" nominal ID and appropriate keyway.  You could also get some RPM reduction by moving the single-step pulley on the motor shaft but you would also have to move the motor mounting position or use a longer belt.  You could also find a single step pulley of the smaller diameter and to change speeds, also swap pulleys.


----------



## Exuptoy

Cheers for the clarification mate. 

Lyn


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## RandyMcNally

Atlas 10x36 lathe
Model Number:  QC54
Serial Number:  005002
Horizontal Countershaft

No idea on purchase/manufacture date.  Purchases from the late gentleman’s son.  PO had it since around 1990 so he was not original owner.
No access to bearing dates, nor do I want to be in a situation where I need to - although I’m dying to know those dates.
I believe it’s a 10F from reading posts here, but I’ve read A LOT of posts here & elsewhere, and it all runs together in my head after a while.

Bed casting  954
Apron casting  10F-9A
Original Atlas 1/2 HP motor

I’d love to know anything you can tell me about it.  I’m sure I’d need to be more specific  but an rough manufacture date would be a great start.

My first machine.  Just purchased a month ago.  In pretty good shape, but I’m giving it a medium-thoroughness disassembly & cleaning as it was packed & caked with grease and dirt.  Came with 3-jaw, 4-jaw, both with original Craftsman boxes.  Atlas micrometer carriage stop and cross slide stop, both with original Atlas boxes.  Milling attachment.  Steady/follow rests.  Pics below.  I am working left to right in my cleanup.  I've remounted the QCGB and cleaned the bed & ways as far as the saddle.

I am about to make another post for help.  I’m a slow, thorough, OCD type - and still yet I’ve gone and broken the split nut scroll last night.  Need some help & information.  Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  I can’t tell you how many threads I’ve read on here already, just in disassembling and cleaning thus far.  You guys are a real gem with your knowledge, your emphasis on archiving that knowledge, and your willingness to help us out.  Thank you very much!


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## wa5cab

Randy,

First, all QC models have or at least originally came with Horizontal Countershafts and Timken tapered roller bearings.  The QC model, which BTW _is_ a 10F, first came out in late 1947.  Atlas had ceased production of the vertical countershaft and all babbit bearing models in late 1945.  So there was no need to include either an "H" or a "V" in the model number.  

Atlas's SOP since the introduction of the first 10" in 1935 had been that all models of the 10" shared a common Serial Number pool (Sears, on the other hand, did not - every new model started off at S/N 1).  When they first introduced the QC models QC42 and QC54 they broke their rule and started them off at S/N 1 or maybe 000001.  At some serial number after yours, they reverted to their SOP and the next QC serial number higher than yours that we have is 082925.  From the few bearing dates that we have for QC models, that was probably in 1949 or 1950.  And a guesstimate of when your machine was made would be about first quarter 1949.


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## RandyMcNally

That’s great info, Robert. Thank you. I hereby promise if I ever have to pull the spindle (and I survive), I’ll bring you the bearing dates.


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## wa5cab

Roger that.


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## Atlas2start

Atlas 10 Lathe QC54.  
Serial # 088298
I have not replaced the bearings, so I do not have any dates for you there.  







Mine also came with this brochure.






My guess is early 70's.

Fred


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## wa5cab

Nice looking QC.  But your guess on when it was made is off by about 20 years.  All 10" production ceased in 1957.  Atlas or Timken ceased engraving the inspection date on the 10" and 12" spindle bearings sometime after 1952/12/20 which was reported on a 101.27430.  The highest reported bearing date on a QC is 1950/12/20 on either 084882 or 087834 (obvious transcription error in Database).  And the highest serial number reported with a date is 088491 with 1950/11/21 on both bearings.  We do know that Atlas didn't practice FIFO (First In First Out) so that is probably correct.  And not the only case of a higher serial number with an earlier date.

The MOLO that you have is a 1970 V9.  The QC catalog was published in late 1947 when the QC42 and QC54 were introduced.  The MOLO edition and version closest to your machine would be a 1954 V6.  Or a 1955 V6.


----------



## Atlas2start

wa5cab said:


> Nice looking QC.  But your guess on when it was made is off by about 20 years.  All 10" production ceased in 1957.  Atlas or Timken ceased engraving the inspection date on the 10" and 12" spindle bearings sometime after 1952/12/20 which was reported on a 101.27430.  The highest reported bearing date on a QC is 1950/12/20 on either 084882 or 087834 (obvious transcription error in Database).  And the highest serial number reported with a date is 088491 with 1950/11/21 on both bearings.  We do know that Atlas didn't practice FIFO (First In First Out) so that is probably correct.  And not the only case of a higher serial number with an earlier date.
> 
> The MOLO that you have is a 1970 V9.  The QC catalog was published in late 1947 when the QC42 and QC54 were introduced.  The MOLO edition and version closest to your machine would be a 1954 V6.  Or a 1955 V6.



Well, that is much older than I thought it was, thank-you for that information!


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## wa5cab

OK.  If you ever do have reason to pull either bearing, please report either date(s) or lack of date(s).

We have asked Clausing but somewhere in their several moves, all Atlas production history was lost or destroyed.


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## Atlas2start

wa5cab said:


> OK.  If you ever do have reason to pull either bearing, please report either date(s) or lack of date(s).
> 
> We have asked Clausing but somewhere in their several moves, all Atlas production history was lost or destroyed.




I certainly will.  I am sad that I didnt know about this before I replaced the bearings on both of my Mills.


----------



## Johntena

Last year, I was gifted this lathe with lots of accessories and tooling.  It has been a great learning experience, and this thread helped me with dates.  I removed the spindle so I could examine the Timken bearings and both are late 1938.  Serial number is 
T V 10133 S.  I have no idea when the QCGB as added, but I am glad it was.

John Gallagher
Danville, CA


----------



## wa5cab

Congratulations and thanks.  This is so far the earliest known 10F bearing date.  Although not the lowest known serial number.  It appears to have been well cared for.  

FYI, the first true QCGB came out in late 1947.  I don't know whether or not the QCGB's had a serial number.


----------



## sandmanred

I got a 10F about a year ago.  TH42 serial 069936.  Lots of grease and grime but mechanically in good shape. Came with just a 3 jaw chuck.  I've almsot spent more picking up all the missing bits than I did on the lathe; 4 jaw chuck, steady rest, face plate, drill chuck with MT2, MT3 dead center, bullnose MT2.  But it's a great little machine for me.


----------



## wa5cab

Thanks for the listing.  I wouldn't suggest or request pulling the spindle just to check the dates engraved on the spindle bearing cups or cones.  But if you ever do have reason to pull the spindle, please reference the model and serial number and give such dates as you can read along with which bearing they were on.

It is almost always cheaper to get accessories with the basic machine than to buy them one at a time later.  All that I will request in addition is your name.  I never have been able to understand why that isn't shown along with city/state/country.


----------



## pontiac428

I've never posted up my serial before.  Mine's a babbit bearing head that I was told was produced in 1936 (which is possible for catalog year 1937).  I think it's designation is H-48 (no data plate) with the serial number below.


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## wa5cab

Confirm first character in serial number stamping is "H" and that lead screw diameter is 3/4" except for left and right ends.  If so, I would date it at early 1939.  Earliest 10F was Summer or Fall of 1938 or later.  Lowest 10F serial number in database is 009552.  Highest 10D is 008635.  And I have more supporting documentation.


----------



## lated

I just picked up a 6" Craftsman 101.07301, serial number 6L 026737.


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## wa5cab

OK.  Thanks.  If you wish, you may add things like acquisition date, price, source/location, general condition at time of purchase, accessories that came with it other than basic lathe, etc.  Current best guess as to date of manufacture is 1953.


----------



## Stephen Eyrich

I have a Craftsman 12 X 36 that I purchased from a coworker back in the early 1980's. The model number is 101.07403 and the serial number is 15812. It came with a 6" 3-jaw chuck, 6" 4-jaw chuck, 4" 4-jaw chuck, 5" 3-jaw speed chuck, 8-1/2" face plate, steady rest, milling attachment, and lots of tooling. It is in pretty good shape for a machine tool older than I am. I have always kept it oiled and reasonably clean. I have made a lot of parts on it in the last 35+ years. The lathe book that came with it is copyrighted 1937 so I had always assumed that that was the date of the lathe also. After I have been browsing the Hobby Machinist site it would seem to be several years newer than I thought. I would love to have any information available about production date. Thanks.


----------



## wa5cab

Stephen,

The way that we commonly date Atlas 10" and early Craftsman 12" is from what are probably inspection dates engraved into the cups and cones of the Timken spindle bearings.  Unfortunately, Clausing has no production data on any of the Atlas machines.  It was lost or destroyed during one of the companies many moves.  Engraving a date ceased in 1953 but serial number 015834 has 09/10/1946 as the latest date engraved on a bearing.  So yours would be about the same age.  We know that Atlas didn't practice FIFO (First In First Out) and there have been cases where the dates found on the two bearings were nearly a year apart.  And a few cases of higher serial number but earlier date.  But its the best method that we have.  So until/unless you ever have another reason to pull the spindle so that you can also record the bearing dates, go with September, 1946 for the age of your machine.


----------



## Stephen Eyrich

wa5cab said:


> Stephen,
> 
> The way that we commonly date ...


Thank you for the response. SE


----------



## wa5cab

I'll add one more bit of information about ID'ing the early Craftsman or Sears 12" lathes.  Although there are a total of 14 different Model Numbers covering the early 3/8" bed lathes, only the last two (101.27430 [24"] and 101.27440 [36"] are adequate for fully ID'ing the lathe.  The other 12 numbers (last one being 101.07403) specify most things about the lathe but in order to order or specify the bed, lead screw or rack you have to also add the 4-digit part of the catalog number (or say either the bed length or maximum distance between centers).  Which for the 101.07403 was (up until late 1947 or early 1948) was 2073, 2075, 2077 or 2079.  Prior to late 1957, there had been 50 somehow different screw-cutting 12" lathes offered.  Plus the stripped down models in about 1936 and 1937.

So it isn't quite enough to just say that you have a 101.07403 and are looking for a bed and/or lead screw.


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## worknhard

I'm finally getting around to posting data on my Atlas 10" lathe....

10D lathe, #D4024S, Babbitt bearings, 5/8” lead screw. No signs of an ID tag installed or ever having been affixed to the lathe bed. Lathe bed is 42” long.

I acquired this lathe in 2014 from the estate of a small automotive repair shop. The shop had ceased operating in 1951. The lathe sat for over 60 years without use or any attention. Following extensive clean-up, the lathe appears in excellent condition and had very little use. I removed the old vintage washing machine motor that was on it and installed a new motor, belts, 3-jaw chuck and QCTP.  I repainted the compound and tailstock since much of the paint was removed during cleanup.  Otherwise all other parts are original paint.  The lathe is very smooth-running. When I picked up the lathe, there were no accessories or tooling, just the lathe on the stand with the threading gears and face plates.  I also added a chip tray and work light.


----------



## aaronrumple

Here's my new addition to the shop:
Craftsman Atlas commercial 12 x 36 101.28910 Serial Number 107315
The 1/2 hp motor has a date of 1972. The date on the manual listed 1973 as the last publication date.
The thread dial has the helical curved gear.
It spent most of its life as a wood lathe, and had a cabinet full of vintage Craftsman saw blades and woodworking equipment. Note the angle iron mounted to the carriage for a wood chisel and the wood turning centers which appear to be original Sears.
Under full rebuild at the moment.


----------



## wa5cab

worknhard said:


> I'm finally getting around to posting data on my Atlas 10" lathe....



Looks like a very decent 10D.  This may be the first photo of a vertical countershaft belt guard that I have seen out side of in a period catalog.

FYI, there wouldn't have been any nameplate on the right end.  That change didn't appear until around 1940, by which time the 10D was out of production.  If your machine originally had a nameplate on the bed, it would have been on the rear near the center of the bed.

Robert Downs


----------



## wa5cab

aaronrumple said:


> Here's my new addition to the shop:
> Craftsman Atlas commercial 12 x 36 101.28910 Serial Number 107315
> The 1/2 hp motor has a date of 1972. The date on the manual listed 1973 as the last publication date.



Well, it was probably made in 1973 as Atlas published an edition of the MOLO in 1971 and again in 1973 but not in 1972.  So if it had been made in 1972 it would presumably have shipped with a 1971 MOLO.  It does appear to be in good condition.  In the event that you happen to remove the compound slide gib or the cross slide gib, please report whether the gibs are plastic or steel.  They are probably plastic, which you will want to replace with steel.  The carriage gib will still be steel.


----------



## aaronrumple

wa5cab said:


> Well, it was probably made in 1973 as Atlas published an edition of the MOLO in 1971 and again in 1973 but not in 1972.  So if it had been made in 1972 it would presumably have shipped with a 1971 MOLO.  It does appear to be in good condition.  In the event that you happen to remove the compound slide gib or the cross slide gib, please report whether the gibs are plastic or steel.  They are probably plastic, which you will want to replace with steel.  The carriage gib will still be steel.



All the gibs are steel and appear to be original. The compound gib is bent. Looks like someone probably used a screwdriver on it. Not sure if it will survive straightening.


----------



## wa5cab

Well, I guess that you have nothing to lose, as you won't get acceptable results with it bent.  The only 10/12 steel gib that I have left is one for the cross slide.  I have been meaning to ask the member who actually made them to do another batch but no one has asked for any of them recently and I keep putting it off.  Is the gib bent at one of the counter bores or in a continuous arc?

I just noticed an odd thing, which is that the 101.28990 started coming with plastic gibs clearly well before the 101.28910 did.  There are just too many reported for it to be a coincidence.  FYI, those are the final two models that Sears was still listing when production ceased in March of 1981.  We don't have enough of the Atlas badged machines reported to really draw any conclusions about them.


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## aaronrumple

It is bent over the last inch or so and probably 3/32" out of line. I'm guessing they stuck a screw driver down behind the gib when the slide was all the way forward to loosen or try and turn the compound.
Were these steel or cast iron? Either way, I can always make a replacement.

A lot of what I'll be doing will be with custom fixturing mounted directly to the cross slide so I'll be making gibs for those anyway. But probably tapered gibs on those.






wa5cab said:


> Well, I guess that you have nothing to lose, as you won't get acceptable results with it bent.  The only 10/12 steel gib that I have left is one for the cross slide.  I have been meaning to ask the member who actually made them to do another batch but no one has asked for any of them recently and I keep putting it off.  Is the gib bent at one of the counter bores or in a continuous arc?
> 
> I just noticed an odd thing, which is that the 101.28990 started coming with plastic gibs clearly well before the 101.28910 did.  There are just too many reported for it to be a coincidence.  FYI, those are the final two models that Sears was still listing when production ceased in March of 1981.  We don't have enough of the Atlas badged machines reported to really draw any conclusions about them.


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  Glad to see that you got the gibs out.  You can try it but I doubt you will be able to straighten it enough.  The cross slides and compound slides are cast iron but the gibs are steel.

I don't see any flat bottom holes for the screws.  Unless that is just because the holy side is down, those are not originals.  You will have to make a donation to the site to gain access but the cleaned up original factory drawings for all four of the gibs (two 6" and two 10"/12") are in Downloads.  I doubt that we are supposed to have the drawings as Clausing still stocks the plastic ones.  But there was a loophole, I guess, and the steel gib drawings were marked as Obsolete instead of Superceded.  I would definitely make the replacements to the drawings, not copies of what's there if there are no holes on the hidden sides.


----------



## aaronrumple

They have the holes. You can barely see them on the top edge.
Lot of other lathes use cast iron. I'm surprised with the unhardened beds, cast iron wasn't the choice. I pulled some unused planer blades to check the flatness and briefly considered cutting a new gib from one of those as they are the perfect ground thickness. But I'm afraid that would be too hard against the iron. They would be stiff and straight.


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## wa5cab

OK on having the holes.

As to why use steel instead of cast iron, maybe it was cheaper or more readily available.  Or both.

And as far as using your excess planer blades, you might have trouble cutting the flat-bottom holes for the adjusting screws.  If not, you could probably use them.


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## roboreloaded

I have a Craftsman Lathe 101.07301, serial#: 8547 (according to the tags on machine - bronze spindle bearings) I'm curious what date this machine is from.
I sniped it off of a local craiglist ad (estate sale of a model airplane hobbyist) about 9-10 years ago for $100 and lost interest for a while and have only used it for a couple small projects. Has been sitting in the garage after I went through and cleaned, oiled and painted. Didn't take apart the headstock. It came with 3-jaw, 4-jaw, backing plate, milling attachment, boring bar attachment with boring bar accessories, 3/4 craftsman motor, original manual, tailstock and headstock drill chucks, dogs. No follower or steady rest. Plus a bunch of other tools I haven't identified.

I might be interested in selling to someone local who is interested in the hobby. 

Daniel in Portland, OR.


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## wa5cab

Daniel,

It was probably made late 1942 or early 1943.

A 3/4 HP motor is really too large for that machine.  Factory recommended 1/4 or 1/3 HP.

Brief mention here that you might sell it is probably OK and if someone were to contact you by PM and you negotiated a deal, no one would complain.  However, there is an area at the bottom of the list of Fora where buying, selling or trading is permitted.  Buying and comments is open to everyone.  Actually listing something for sale is open only to donors $25 and up.  Or it may have been changed to $10 and up.  Formal For Sale ads are not permitted outside of specific Fora regardless of who you are.


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## roboreloaded

Thanks for the information, didn't realize it was that old. I should have left interest of selling out. I'll post in an appropriate area if it comes to that.


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## wa5cab

OK.  FYI, most of the parts in the 101.07301 are the same as those in the Atlas 618.  Exceptions are the spindle and bearings and parts  pertaining to them, and the Type 2 Countershaft.  The Atlas 618 changed to the Type 3 circa 1939.  But the 101.07301 kept the Type 2 throughout its production life.


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## WCraig

Atlas 618 for sale in Santa Clara, CA ($500) per thread:









						Atlas 618 metal lathe - $500 (santa clara, CA)
					

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/d/san-jose-atlas-618-metal-lathe/7199439334.html




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				










Craig


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## dmassom

wa5cab said:


> Edited with title change 20200627
> 
> In the combined machine database (742 entries to date) there are 180 10" entries, 21 of which show no serial numbers.  There are 113 Craftsman entries, 19 or which show no serial numbers.  Plus we only have 30 10" and 22 12" bearing dates for Timken equipped 10" or 12".
> 
> Anyway, anyone with any Atlas built machine (not just lathes) who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number;  bed length, serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates are available, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).  Also any comments you wish to make about condition, accessories, when and where purchased, price, etc.
> If your machine is a MK2 6", there is a somewhat more detailed questionnaire also in this sticky area.  If you've responded to that questionnaire, no response is needed here.
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.


----------



## dmassom

wa5cab said:


> Edited with title change 20200627
> 
> In the combined machine database (742 entries to date) there are 180 10" entries, 21 of which show no serial numbers.  There are 113 Craftsman entries, 19 or which show no serial numbers.  Plus we only have 30 10" and 22 12" bearing dates for Timken equipped 10" or 12".
> 
> Anyway, anyone with any Atlas built machine (not just lathes) who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number;  bed length, serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates are available, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).  Also any comments you wish to make about condition, accessories, when and where purchased, price, etc.
> If your machine is a MK2 6", there is a somewhat more detailed questionnaire also in this sticky area.  If you've responded to that questionnaire, no response is needed here.
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.


I have a Craftsman (Atlas) 12x36 lathe Model #101.07403 2079 s/n 20609. The lathe has Timken bearings, 3/8" thick ways and 3/4" lead screw.  Can you tell me when this lathe was made ( I purchased it used circa 1970).


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## dmassom

Sorry, the model number is 101.07403


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## wa5cab

I appear to have missed answering your date question.  Based on meager evidence, I would date 101.07403 s/n 20609 Craftsman 12" lathe to 1947.


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## VSAncona

Atlas 10F, Model H36, serial number stamped on bed ways H11838S


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## wa5cab

OK.  Thanks.  When you get around to it, you'll need to edit your brag list (signature).


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## fireguyfire

New member here who just picked up an Atlas H54 serial number 053162.
Can anyone tell me what year it was likely made?
Is there a reproduction manual available for it?


----------



## wa5cab

@fireguyfire'

I maintain a database of the Atlas built machines using information gathered from members here and from the old Atlas-Craftsman list that used to be on Yahoo.com and is now on groups.io.  So the roots of the database goes back 20 years.  The first Atlas lathe was a 9" which only had babbit bearings.  The earliest 10" also only had babbit bearings but within the first year of production Atlas added the Timken bearings.  Either from the beginning or from fairly soon thereafter, either Atlas or Timken (who made the bearings) began 100% inspection to confirm that only Class 3 bearings were used.  And to prove to someone that the bearings had been inspected and to certify that they met Class 3 specs, each cup and cone had the inspection date hand-engraved on it.  The earliest bearing date that we have is 10/19/1938 in serial number 010133 which is a TV54 which is a 10F series machine, as is yours (that machine also had a QCGB installed but that didn't happen until 1948 or later). 

I would date your machine to about 3rd quarter  1944 1938.

We have in Downloads several manuals and parts lists on the 10F.  Downloads requires Donor status.  If you click on the Donations tab in the main toolbar, you will see a chart that details what you get at the various donation levels.  And where to go and how to make a donation.


----------



## VSAncona

wa5cab said:


> The earliest bearing date that we have is 10/19/1938 in serial number 010133 which is a TV54 which is a 10F series machine, as is yours (that machine also had a QCGB installed but that didn't happen until 1948 or later).
> 
> I would date your machine to about 3rd quarter 1944 1938.



Robert — If the serial number of fireguy’s lathe is 053162, wouldn’t that put the manufacture date a bit later than 1938? Maybe early to mid 1940s?


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## wa5cab

You are absolutely correct.  I was also working on a question from a non-H-M post about an earlier serial number close to 005632 and when I finished answering it, answered the question for that 8 year earlier machine..  Plus I was supposed to be in the kitchen getting our traditional Tuesday night pizza ready and as they say, haste makes waste.  The correct estimate would be third quarter 1944.

I forgot to add that whomever was actually doing the  inspection and marking, the practice seems to have stopped in 1952 or 1953.  The highest engraved date that we have in the database is a 12" on 1952/12/28.  I don't recall for certain whether or not anyone ever reported a 10" or a 3/8" bed 12" with a high serial number and nothing engraved on the bearings but there have been numerous such reports about 1/2" bed 12" with nothing engraved there.

Also, to save anyone the time to check, the engraved inspection dates are not known to ever have been found on any of the 6", mills or shapers. 

I'll repeat my request last made several years ago for anyone who hasn't already done it and who pulls their spindle from a 10" or 3/8" bed 12" to be sure to report the bearing dates that they find or report that nothing was found if that was the case.  Along with at least the serial and model number.


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## fireguyfire

Thanks for the info! It’s earlier than I thought.
It’s going to get a full restoration


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## fireguyfire

So I decided to pass on the H54 I mentioned earlier; when I went to pick it up the seller had misrepresented the condition quite badly.

Ironically I was able to track down an earlier 9” closer to home in good running order (but grungy) with lots of period accessories.

I’m now curious on the year of manufacture for this old girl.
Found a number on the tail piece end of the way; 4695 S.
Can anyone help me out with a year?


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## wa5cab

What is the bed length?  Choices are 36", 42", 48" or 54".  That will establish the model number.


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## fireguyfire

It’s a 36”


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## Limbsmith

Aquired from a friend. Want to get running again. Will post in projects for where to start for a  first time machinist. What year? Thanks


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## wa5cab

Current best guess would be 1973.  The number 058-016 cast into the bed is the casting number as well as the finished-machined part number.  In  this case, it is a Clausing, not an Atlas, part number.

If you do post the refurb project as a thread, post it in this Forum, not the generic one, and put the lathe model and serial number in the title.  But do not post it in this current thread.  This thread is for machine serial and model numbers as found.


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## Limbsmith

wa5cab said:


> Current best guess would be 1973.


The number 058-016 cast into the bed is the casting number as well as the finished-machined part number.  In  this case, it is a Clausing, not Atlas, part number.


wa5cab said:


> If you do post the refurb project as a thread, post it in this Forum, not the generic one, and put the lathe model and serial number in the title.  But do not post it in the current thread.  This thread is for machine serial and model numbers as found.


Thanks for the reply. I already posted in the projects section on Thursday prior to your  reply. Can it be moved? Or should I repost following your instructions?


----------



## ARC-170

Atlas Craftsman 101.27440
54" long bed
Number stamped on lathe ways (front right): 27255
Bearing dates: 11/6/50 and 11/14/50


----------



## wa5cab

Limbsmith said:


> Thanks for the reply. I already posted in the projects section on Thursday prior to your  reply. Can it be moved? Or should I repost following your instructions?


I moved it.


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## wa5cab

ARC-170 said:


> Atlas Craftsman 101.27440
> 54" long bed
> Number stamped on lathe ways (front right): 27255
> Bearing dates: 11/6/50 and 11/14/50


Thanks.  Got it.


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## wa5cab

Limbsmith said:


> Thanks for the reply. I already posted in the projects section on Thursday prior to your  reply. Can it be moved? Or should I re-post following your instructions?


The reason for moving it is that the Member Projects forum is more for or mainly for projects that members have done _with_ their equipment rather than_ to_ it.  In the latter case, fewer general members would have any interest in it except for those who already frequent  the specific badge Forum.


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## wa5cab

fireguyfire said:


> It’s a 36”


36" bed or 36" between centers?


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## fireguyfire

36” bed


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## Awround

I have just started a refurbishment of a Craftsman 101-07300 (Atlas 6" 3/4 x 16 spindle sleeve bearings).  Serial number 177





Cheers,

Adrian


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## robert574

I have the same model.  Is there no serial number on the right hand end of the front top of the bed way?  (right,front,top of bed)


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## Awround

Yes, my serial number (177) (turns out not to be serial number) is stamped on the right front of the bed casting, just below the ways (see first photo).

Cheers,

Adrian


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## wa5cab

Awround,

Well, that is a new location for the serial number.  And approximately where longitudinally?  Also please state where on the bed the nameplate is found.

On the bed, headstock, tailstock and carriage, also see whether you can find any letters and/or numbers cast into the castings.

In general, the only thing that I know of that we have in print on the 101.07300 is the entry in the 1938 Craftsman tool catalog.


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## robert574

There is no writing at all on the top of the way, right end?? hmm....  Where exactly is the number stamped on the bed?  I'll take a look at mine.

"right front just below the ways"  OK

Just looked.  Mine has 177 stamped there also just past the right end of the rack.


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## Awround

Thanks for all the input.  I did find the serial number on the front way, right end.  Serial number is L334.

See photos in answer to other questions.

Cheers,

Adrian


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## robert574

That's still a low serial number, probably the lowest I've seen for this lathe.  I'll be interested in seeing your pictures as it progresses.


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## Awround

I am restoring the lathe for a friend.  The lathe belonged to her grandfather who passed it on to her father.  Her father passed away 10 years ago and the lathe has been sitting(rusting) in her mother's basement until now. The timing is right for a 1937 purchase by the grandfather.  She hopes to sell the lathe once it is restored.

I machined a replacement compound nut yesterday which was the standard 1/4x20 RH.  I also need to replace the cross slide nut and found that it is a 3/8 x 20 LH 60 degree V thread.  The cross side screw is double start thread which would give 0.100 per rev.  This agrees with the markings on the cross slide collar.  Now pondering whether to try my hand at making the tap or buying one from Little Machine Shops (shipping to Canada is the same as the cost of the tap!).

Cheers,

Adrian


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## wa5cab

OK.  I am getting confused.  It appears that Awround and robert574 each have a 9" and that both machines have 177 stamped on the front of the bed just below the front way and just to the right of the right end of the rack.  Is that correct?

Further, that Awround has found L334 stamped into the top of the front way and based upon several succeeding years history 334 is the machine's serial number, not 177.  robert574, is there a serial number stamped on the top of the front way on your machine?

And is all that I have written in this post correct for each machines?

When each of you reply to the stated or implied questions in this post, also please state (possibly again) what your nominal bed length is.


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## Awround

I can confirm that I have a Craftsman 6" lathe built by Atlas.  Model number is 101.07300.  Length of the bed casting is 30".  There is 177 stamped into the bed casting just below the front way and just to the right of the right end of the rack.  There is a serial number L334 stamped on the top of the front way at the far right end.


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## wa5cab

OK.  Sorry that I got confused.  I rather doubt that we shall ever know what the "177" means.  It could have even been an ID number of the  machinist who did the bed grinding.  However, finding what is probably the serial number does reinforce our long time assumption that in the 1930's at least, Atlas stamped the serial number of any model lathe on the top of the right end of the front way.


----------



## robert574

Mine is a 6" Craftsman 101.07300.  I have the 177 stamped on the right front of the bed just below the front way between the end of the rack and end of the bed.  My serial no. is L1782 stamped on the top right end of the front way and the bed is 30".  My serial number tag (think that you must mean model number tag) looks identical to the one Awround has.


----------



## Oldmanoffgrid

wa5cab said:


> Edited with title change 20200627
> 
> In the combined machine database (742 entries to date) there are 180 10" entries, 21 of which show no serial numbers.  There are 113 Craftsman entries, 19 or which show no serial numbers.  Plus we only have 30 10" and 22 12" bearing dates for Timken equipped 10" or 12".
> 
> Anyway, anyone with any Atlas built machine (not just lathes) who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number;  bed length, serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates are available, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).  Also any comments you wish to make about condition, accessories, when and where purchased, price, etc.
> If your machine is a MK2 6", there is a somewhat more detailed questionnaire also in this sticky area.  If you've responded to that questionnaire, no response is needed here.
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.


Robert, I picked up a couple of machines lately and I thought they are in the registry. The first is a small 6" machine. I have no idea when it was built but I know it has sleeve bearings. I would like some help dating it. I paid $230.00 for it with a milling attachment. The total bed length is close to 30". I have the countershaft assembly off replacing bushings.


----------



## Oldmanoffgrid

The second machine is a 12" with QCGB.


----------



## wa5cab

Oldmanoffgrid,

Clicking on your User ID on the main toolbar takes you to your Account info.  There you can, among other things, set up a Signature and what I call a brag sheet.

The 101.07301 was made from 1939 until mid-1957.  I would estimate yours was made in 1945.  It is about 2/3 the same as the Atlas 618.  Differences are mainly the headstock casting and bushings, the spindle and thrust bearing, the countershaft (after 1939) and the right bed leg.  Unless I am forgetting something, the rest was the same.  It is a 6x18 but it is incorrect to refer to it as a Craftsman 618.  It is a 101.07301.

Not counting the two gears on the Tumbler and the 16T/32T Compound Stud Gear, you should have a total of 15 Change Gears.

The machine was not in the Database so I added it.  I will update the copy in DOWNLOADS as well as the copy that I have been keeping in this Forum only in the next few days.


----------



## Oldmanoffgrid

Thank you for all the information. This is a great site!


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## wa5cab

You're welcome.  The 101.28910 is probably the second best of all of the 12" lathes that Atlas made.  The only one better was the 3996 or 101.28990 cabinet model.  The 101.28910 is the same except for badge and nameplate as the Atlas 3986.  They were made from 1967 until maybe the Summer of 1974.  About 1975, Sears added the Craftsman Commercial badge to the headstocks.  Whether any of those badges actually got installed on any 101.28910's or not I don't know.  But in recent years it has become fairly common to refer to all of the 1/2" bed machines as "the Commercials".  AFAIK, Atlas or Clausing didn't actually use the term.  And Sears only used it on the two late cabinet models.  But if you see someone use the term, they could be referring to anything made after 1957.

I would guess that your 12" was made in 1973.  We don't have any good way to date the late 12" as Atlas or Timken ceased to engrave the inspection dates on the spindle bearings in 1952 or early 1953.


----------



## Oldmanoffgrid

wa5cab said:


> You're welcome.  The 101.28910 is probably the second best of all of the 12" lathes that Atlas made.  The only one better was the 3996 or 101.28990 cabinet model.  The 101.28910 is the same except for badge and nameplate as the Atlas 3986.  They were made from 1967 until maybe the Summer of 1974.  About 1975, Sears added the Craftsman Commercial badge to the headstocks.  Whether any of those badges actually got installed on any 101.28910's or not I don't know.  But in recent years it has become fairly common to refer to all of the 1/2" bed machines as "the Commercials".  AFAIK, Atlas or Clausing didn't actually use the term.  And Sears only used it on the two late cabinet models.  But if you see someone use the term, they could be referring to anything made after 1957.
> 
> I would guess that your 12" was made in 1973.  We don't have any good way to date the late 12" as Atlas or Timken ceased to engrave the inspection dates on the spindle bearings in 1952 or early 1953.


Thanks again, I bought a 101.28990 cabinet model new in the early 70's. I later sold it to a friend who still has it and uses it regularly. I had sellers regret after selling it, that's why I picked these two machines up when I had the chance.
L. Moore


----------



## Plasanator

Hi everyone, I have a sears Roebuck and co bed 42 inch that I have loaded with atlas 10f head and tail and saddle etc.
I modified the bed for a reverse box by drilling and tapping mounting holes.
I hope this helps with your numbers.


----------



## wa5cab

That was a nice save, converting a 12x24 bed into what would be called a 10x24 and probably a TH42, assuming that the headstock has the much more common Timken bearings and that the countershaft assembly is the more common Horizontal one.  

However, you haven't given the serial number of the original 101.27430.  The original S/N obviously isn't on the nameplate where I would have expected it and obviously wasn't on a separate plate mounted above or below the nameplate.  I also can't tell whether the nameplate is on the rear of the bed or on the right end where I would have expected it after about 1942.  So do you know what the original serial number was?  The only place that I know to look for it would be stamped into the top of the right end of the front way.  Or on a separate plate originally mounted either on the rear or the right end of the bed.

FYI, there are only two differences between the carriages that were on the 101.27430 and the TH42.  The compound slides are different and the one on the 12" Craftsman would have had the interlock installed that prevents you from engaging longitudinal and cross feeds at the same time.  Otherwise, they are the same.


----------



## c.bordner

Hello, ive just recently started a , well almost finished my restoration of my atlas 12" swing 10D I'm guessing late 30's the rear gear cover should be sheetmetal I know. Sn- L62317s


----------



## wa5cab

That's a nice looking restoration.  And the spindle bearing journals look better than most.  However, it is not a 10D.  That would be an Atlas and a 10".  And it would have the FWD-OFF-REV gearbox mounted to the bed in front of the headstock instead of the tumbler for that function.  

It is either a late 101.07380 or an early 101.07381.  And it must have shipped with the cast change gear cover because it has the cutout and tapped holes in the headstock for the motor switch and bezel.

We don't have any printed parts list for the 101.07380 and the one that we have for the 101.07381 shows the later legs and later tailstock.  The catalog photo in the 1937 catalog shows the cast cover and early symmetrical legs but later tailstock.  The 1936 catalog shows the sheet metal cover and the early tailstock that is cylindrical around the ram like yours.  So what source document we have are inconclusive as far as which model to call it.  I take it that the nameplate that should have been on the rear of the bed is missing.


----------



## c.bordner

When I had stripped the paint I searched for rivet holes where the plate should have been mounted, there was no sign of a mounting location for a plate. Unless they glued them at some point.?
A few castings "headstock and cover" had 10D raised lettering. Thats where my idea of the model came from. 
As far as the babbit bearings go, they were only lightly worn, it was a bit of a relief to start a restore with a fairly clean set. Spindal does not have the thrust bearing, only the solid sleeve bushing and pin. 
It also only has a one piece apron/saddle configuration and no auto cross feed.  I have my switches all powered up, my rev,off,fwd switch wired in, and she runs flawless. 
I still have not been able to cut anything due to the t-bolt's in my compound being pulled into the Zamak.  I made some very long radial t-nuts to replace them. When my hardened studs arrive I will post a pic of the repair.


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## wa5cab

OK.  10, 10D and 10F are what could be called "model groups".  10A, B, C and E are specific models.  The 10A, B and C were cut-down versions of the 10.  The 10E was a cutdown or stripped down version of the 10D.  The Craftsman 12" up until 1957 used all parts from the current version of the 10" except those parts that made them a 12".  Beginning with the 101.07360, 101.07380 and 101.07400 (the 101.0740x group lagged behind the first two by 1 or 2 years.  The 101.0736x group had no back gears.  It and the 101.0738x group had babbit bearings.  The 101.0740x group had Timken bearings.  So your lathe is obviously in the 101.0738x group.  Atlas appears to have introduced new version parts to the assembly line or lines when they became available more than on a specific date each year.  So from what you have written about the headstock casting and change gear covers, the second version of the 10" and 12" headstocks must have shown up earlier than the second version of the change gear cover.  And I do not know how they decided when to change the model numbers on the nameplates.  It is really too bad that your nameplate is missing.  We will probably never know whether your machine shipped as a 101.07380 or 101.07381.  But given that is has the earlier version legs and tailstock, I think that I would opt for calling it a 101.07380

And in any case, only the 10F and the 101.07403 shipped with the two-piece carriage and power cross feed.  All of the earlier models had one-piece carriages.  That means up through 101.07363, 101.07383 and 101.07402. 

On thing that should be mentioned is that when Atlas changed the change gear hub thickness from the same as the face thickness (3/8") to 1/2, they also changed slightly what gear tooth counts were used.  and they pretty quickly ceased production of gears with the 3/8" hubs.  And of the parts associated with the thinner gears.  This is really no problem for most of the gears and all of the parts - you simply face off the later gears or parts either 1/16" per side pr 1/8" off of the length.  But they didn't make any more of the 96 tooth gears.  So treat them kindly.


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## c.bordner

That was some pure knowledge that better helps me understand what machine I actually own. Thank you for the time it took to explain. As for the gears, I didn't even realize they have went to thicker ones. Good information!! I'm really glad I have picked this thing up, I really on need three parts to make it run like new again. I only need a feed shaft bearing assy for the screw at the tail end. Also the more modern upper and lower compound swivel made of iron with the two lock bolts instead of the t-slot lock down.
I have machined a few t-slot nuts to lock it down, but the slots are really buggered up in the zamak lower. Iv made some radius nuts 7/8" long to lock it in place. They only require a bit of the hole in the bottom to be opened up. But the slot is really in bad shape. I fear it will always be hard to move it. Other than that, I spent $80 bucks. On the lathe, $25 for new belts, about 40 hours on a wire wheel , $10 on stripper., $20 on paint. Not so bad so far. Plus between 100 and 200 in my future for the parts I spoke of before.


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## wa5cab

OK.  The later pintle cross slide and compound swivel and compound slide is a good upgrade in any case.  It works far better.  If you decide later that you want a milling attachment, neither one is usually cheap but the later one is far easier to find.  Just get in the habit of keeping the compound (and milling attachment if you get one) level any time that you take it off of the cross slide.  The almost automatic tendency will be to tilt the compound forward whereupon at least one of the 10-309 Pin will drop out and you will probably spend hours looking for it.  The same is true of the milling attachment and the round table that also fits onto the cross slide.


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## itbespiffy

So I have an atlas 10D with vertical countershaft and a 36" bed.  Serial number DT8410S.  Has timken bearings and when I pulled the cones the 14125A has no "A". It only reads 14125.  Also no numbers etched on the cones or caps just an "x" etched into the cones.  Not sure if they are original but seem to be the cheap class 2 type.  It has power cross feed but no power cross slide.  Has the reversing gear box below the headstock and has what appears to be a square hole for the on/off switch although this one has the motor reversing switch instead.  No idea what year as I got no info from seller.  Assuming 1945 ish.


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  The 10F was introduced probably in 1939, somewhere between S/N 008635 and 009552.  Your machine was assembled sometime in 1938, probably mid-year. 

I don[t know the differences between a 14125 and a 14125A but would guess only a relatively minor change that did not effect the size. 

The only difference between a Class 2 and a Class 3 would be the guaranteed dimensions.  Same as the difference between a Class 4 (which Timken claims never to have sold) and a Class 0.  In other words, you can't tell the players apart without a program.


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## VTdave

wa5cab said:


> Edited with title change 20200627
> 
> In the combined machine database (742 entries to date) there are 180 10" entries, 21 of which show no serial numbers.  There are 113 Craftsman entries, 19 or which show no serial numbers.  Plus we only have 30 10" and 22 12" bearing dates for Timken equipped 10" or 12".
> 
> Anyway, anyone with any Atlas built machine (not just lathes) who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number;  bed length, serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates are available, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).  Also any comments you wish to make about condition, accessories, when and where purchased, price, etc.
> If your machine is a MK2 6", there is a somewhat more detailed questionnaire also in this sticky area.  If you've responded to that questionnaire, no response is needed here.
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.


Hi Robert,
Would pm you this info directly, but not sure how to do that.  So, here's some data for the database. I have a 10" Atlas lathe QC54, serial number 000681, Timken bearing date: 3/7/47.
Dave


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## wa5cab

This thread is fine for reporting a machine.  That's what it was originally started for.

In looking over the 9" and 10"  serial numbers, it appears that except for a couple of anomalies that I doubt we will ever settle, Atlas had a serial number block for the 9" starting at probably 1 and another block for all of the 10" starting at 1 up until the first QC came out in late 1947,  The first QC models started a new block presumably at 1 that ran up to around  005000, and then they merged the QC's into the block being used by the change gear 10F's at around 082395 in late 1950.  From there on, they shared the same block up until 10" production ceased in mid 1957.

I will add here that they or Sears did not do that with the 3/8" bed 12".  Every Sears model number had its own block starting presumably at 1.  Only the 101.07403 and to a lesser extent the 101.07383 got up to fairly large serial numbers.  So the serial number without a bearing date (Timken only) is usually of no help in ID'ing Craftsman model numbers.

To send me or anyone else a PM on H-M, simply hover the mouse pointer over the member's bolded User ID under his Avatar photo at the left of any of his posts in any thread, slide it up or down and click on Start conversation.  To send a direct email, you must know one of their email addresses.  I would give you one of mine but I am so far behind in reading my mail that I will likely never catch up.  In any case, you will get a much quicker response from me to a PM.


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## jpack

I have a 12x36 (not the commercial one) atlas or craftsman, I have not found any stamps, badges or plates with any ser# or model#. I will look it over more closely and let you know. I've owned this lathe since 1980.


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## wa5cab

@jpack,

If it was made by Atlas and is not one of the 1/2" bed machines and is 12" swing, then it is a Craftsman..  Post some photos of it.  Up until about 1940/41, the serial number was stamped into the top of the front way near the right end.  After that, they moved the name plate from the rear to the right end of the bed and the serial number was on it.  I'll await the photos before making any more guesses.


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## jpack

bench type 
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
3/8 bed, new motor1hp, new reverse switch, DROs, quick clamp tail stock, and added a QCGB last week. Original switch controls power to everything. looking for a gear and belt cover. went over the areas and did not see any numbers/names. inside of ways has a casting mark "954".


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## wa5cab

Can you confirm that there is nothing stamped into the bed front way top surface near the right end?  And no power cross feed?  Is it a 10" or a 12"?


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## jpack

confirmed, nothing stamped anywhere. It is a 12" with power cross feed.


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## wa5cab

OK.  I see the pull-out knob now.  So it is a 101.07403.  Unfortunately, some PO removed the nameplate presumably from the right end of the bed.

Well, from the rectangular instead of oval motor switch bezel, it is probably 1948 or later.  Atlas changed the 10" headstock casting circa 1942.  But the Craftsman catalog and other photos continue to show the over switch plate up through w947.  So we don't really know what year the change was made to the 12" headstock casting.  Unless someone with an earlier bearing date should pipe up.  In the meantime, it was built between 1948 and mid-1957.

Beyond that, the only other way to date your machine is to pull the spindle and report the four dates on the two bearing cups and cones.  And use the latest of the four dates.  If there are no dates, then it was built after mid-1952 up through mid-1957.

WRT the 1HP motor, that is considerable overkill.  Factory recommendation was 1/2 HP.  The larger motor won't increase the capabilities any and on the down side, if you ever do have a crash, the larger motor will likely do more damage.


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## jpack

Lathe is running fine right now and I do not want to tear it down just to get a date. The 1hp motor was just one I had on hand when the original motor started smoking (dirt dabbers build inside anything). I saw no screw or rivet holes on the end where a name plate or serial number would have been secured. Thanks for the information.


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## wa5cab

OK.  From the apparent possible maximum age of the machine, and if the serial number was not stamped into the top of the front way near the right end, there should be two drilled holes in the right end of the bed for the two drive-screws securing the nameplate.  The earlier position was near the center of the rear of the bed.


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## BanjoMike

I am restoring my wife’s grandfather’s Atlas 10F TH42 lathe. Serial number 065418. It has the Timken bearings, and the bearing dates are 11/20/1945 and 11/30/1945. Not sure when he originally purchased the lathe, but he passed in 1986 and the lathe has pretty much set idle since then. With its home in Arizona rust is not an issue. Overall, it’s in good shape. I’m new to machining but always had an interest. Figured there’s no time like the present to kindle the fire.


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## wa5cab

OK.  Machine is added to the database.  Yes, a dry climate does contribute to a machine's longevity.  Welcome aboard.

Please confirm that nameplate with model and serial numbers is on right end of bed and not with serial number stamped into right end of front way and plate with model number on rear of bed.  Also whether holes for drive screws affixing plate are or are not drilled through.


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## BanjoMike

The data plate is on the right end of the bed and the attachment  holes are not drilled through.  This was a nuisance since I would have preferred removing the plate before painting.




Do you know where I can get new or really good condition name plates for the headstock guards?




Thanks,

Mike


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## wa5cab

Sorry, but no.  I guess that it wouldn't hurt to confiirm that they don't have any.  So you could call Clausing next week and ask.  But the odds are against them saying yes.  

I assume that the left-hand badge came from the belt cover that came with the horizontal countershaft machines.  Where was the smaller right-hand one?  On the carriage apron?

Two out of the 20 or so parts manuals show the part number of the one from the belt/gear guard as 9-135A.  Which makes no sense as that gear and belt guard won't fit the 9" (or the 10" with vertical countershaft).  None of the parts manuals show a part number for the badge on the apron.


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## BanjoMike

The left badge came off of the10F-28 Gear Guard on the left side of the lathe.  The smaller badge on the right came off of the 10-18 Horizontal Countershaft Gear Guard on top of the lathe.  I checked with Clausing a few weeks ago and no luck.  I'll just have to keep an eye out on ebay.


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## wa5cab

@jpack ,

Back to ID'ing the model number of your Craftsman 12", it finally occurred to me that if the QCGB was installed on it at the factory, then it was made 1950 - 1957 and it is a model 101.27440.  Furthermore, if the two QCGB gear selector lever knobs are original to the machine, then it was made very late in the production life of the 3/8" bed, say 1956 or first half of 1957 or the machine was a 101.07403 that was converted then or later.  And the location of the missing nameplate was definitely on the right end of the bed.  When the 10" QCGB first appeared in the latter part of 1947, the knobs on the selector levers weren't cylindrical.  They were a smaller diameter in the middle and the same diameter at the top and bottom as those on your machine.  This was of course much more expensive to make.  When the new 1/2" bed machines came out in mid-1957, they all had the straight 441-029 knobs instead of the earlier wasp-waisted 10-1245's.  This is the first example that I have seen or at least the first that I have noticed of the later knobs on the earlier machines.  If you want to see what I am talking about, compare the photos of the knobs in the 101.27430 and 101.27440 operating and parts manual to the exploded view drawings.  The manual is available in Downloads.

Correction - Compare the photos and drawings of the knobs in the 101.27430 and 27440 manual to those in any of the later model manuals.  And that makes it a little more likely that your machine was originally a 101.07403 converted to a 101.27440 after the new models came out.  Maybe the OO intended to change the nameplate to the later model but only got as far as removing the original nameplate???  If you know who he is, you might ask him whether or not he still has the original nameplate.


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## dpritchardjr

I just purchased a Atlas 618/Craftsman 101.21400 6 inch Swing Lathe serial# 018536, 18 inch bed.

Any idea what year it is?


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## wa5cab

dpritchardjr said:


> I just purchased a Atlas 618/Craftsman 101.21400 6 inch Swing Lathe serial# 018536, 18 inch bed.
> 
> Any idea what year it is?


OK.  I added it to the master database on my machine.  It will be in the copy in the sticky area as well as in DOWNLOADS the next time that I do an update.

In the meantime, I have a few questions which you may answer or not as you prefer.  If you do answer some or all of them, the information will be added to the database.

Where did you find/buy it?
What did you pay?
What accessories did it come with other than what is shown in the photos?

Note that it is not considered a good practice to store the chuck key in the chuck.  If some knob-twiddling visitor should happen along and start the motor, one or two things out of several possibilities will happen, all of which will be undesirable.

Best guess at present for year of manufacture is 1969.  Unfortunately, the hand-engraved dates that appear on the spindle bearings prior to 1953 on the 10" and early 12" never appear on any of the 6" nor on the Shapers or Mills.. 

If you decide to invest in a QCTP, the correct size for the 6" will usually be called the 0XA.  And be sure to buy at least about 3 extra turning and facing tool holders (usually given as 001) and one extra 002 turning, facing and boring holders.  Otherwise you will find that in practice you aren't much better off than without the QCTP.

One thing to check on your machine is whether it has steel or plastic cross slide and compound slide gibs.  I think that they should be steel as the change to plastic seems to have occurred around 1972.  But if either or both were replaced after 1972, they will be plastic.  The change was a penny pinching change that shouldn't have occurred.


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## dpritchardjr

wa5cab said:


> OK.  I added ti the master database on my machine.  It will be in the copy in the sticky area as well as in DOWNLOADS the next time that I do an update.
> 
> In the meantime, I have a few questions which you may answer or not as you prefer.  If you do answer some or all of them, the information will be added to the database.
> 
> Where did you find/buy it?
> What did you pay?
> What accessories did it come with other than what is shown in the photos?
> 
> Note that it is not considered a good practice to store the chuck key in the chuck.  If some knob-twiddling visitor should happen along and start the motor, one or two things out of several possibilities will happen, all of which will be undesirable.
> 
> Best guess at present for year of manufacture is 1969.  Unfortunately, the hand-engraved dates that appear on the spindle bearings prior to 1953 on the 10" and early 12" never appear on any of the 6" nor on the Shapers or Mills..
> 
> If you decide to invest in a QCTP, the correct size for the 6" will usually be called the 0XA.  And be sure to buy at least about 3 extra turning and facing tool holders (usually given as 001) and one extra 002 turning, facing and boring holders.  Otherwise you will find that in practice you aren't much better off than without the QCTP.
> 
> One thing to check on your machine is whether it has steel or plastic cross slide and compound slide gibs.  I think that they should be steel as the change to plastic seems to have occurred around 1972.  But if either or both were replaced after 1972, they will be plastic.  The change was a penny pinching change that shouldn't have occurred.


Thank you for the info.

To answer some of yours:
Found on Facebook Marketplace in Hickory NC.
$900
Several items, different Tail stock pieces, a Phase2Plus QCTP but for a 9-12 inch (will be selling that to finance a 6 inch ;-)), different drill chucks,  many cutters including carbide for the QCTP, and a few measuring instruments.

Will check the gibs next.


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## wa5cab

OK.  Thanks.

Note that  there are 4 gibs in each lathe.  The other two, Carriage and Tailstock, were not changed.

Too bad that the QCTP is an AXA.  The cutters are probably 3/8", too.  I think that the 0XA takes 1/4" and maybe 5/16"

Is that a 4" or a 3" chuck on the spindle?.  Was there a 4-jaw chuck?  If not, you will want to acquire one.  Probably should be a 4".  You could swing a 5"

Note that we have a rule here that all FOR SALE listings be in the appropriate For Sale Fora, which will be found near the bottom of the list of Fora.  And I'll also mention that all members can buy there but to sell must be a Gold level donor or higher to start a thread.  That's $25 per year or higher.

What do you mean by "different Tail Stock pieces"?  The tail stock on the 6" takes a 1MT arbor.  The headstock taper is 2MT.  Plus of course 1"-10 threads.


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## dpritchardjr

wa5cab said:


> OK.  Thanks.
> 
> Note that  there are 4 gibs in each lathe.  The other two, Carriage and Tailstock, were not changed.
> 
> Too bad that the QCTP is an AXA.  The cutters are probably 3/8", too.  I think that the 0XA takes 1/4" and maybe 5/16"
> 
> Is that a 4" or a 3" chuck on the spindle?.  Was there a 4-jaw chuck?  If not, you will want to acquire one.  Probably should be a 4".  You could swing a 5"
> 
> Note that we have a rule here that all FOR SALE listings be in the appropriate For Sale Fora, which will be found near the bottom of the list of Fora.  And I'll also mention that all members can buy there but to sell must be a Gold level donor or higher to start a thread.  That's $25 per year or higher.
> 
> What do you mean by "different Tail Stock pieces"?  The tail stock on the 6" takes a 1MT arbor.  The headstock taper is 2MT.  Plus of course 1"-10 threads.


It is a 4 inch 4 jaw.
The tail pieces I mentioned are morse tapers and drill chuck etc...


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## wa5cab

4" 4-Jaw.  OK. Of course it is.  I obviously didn't look closely enough at the photo.

You will want to acquire a 3" or maybe 4" 3-jaw for routine turning work.  The 4-jaw is usually capable of greater accuracy but at the expense of taking considerably longer to set up.  There is no sense in paying extra for a 5" as the 4" can already open up far enough for the jaws to hit the ways.


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## wa5cab

@jpack,

After thinking it over some more, I came to the conclusion that it is more likely that it is a 101.27440 rather than a 101.07403 with added QCGB..  It has the QCGB, the rectangular motor switch plate, and the selector handles are the late style. 

I've assigned it serial number UNKNOWN000106,  If you should ever, for some other reason, pull the spindle, please report the 4 dates engraved into the  spindle bearings, or NONE if there aren't any.  Atlas or Timken ceased dating the bearings circa 1953.  The 101.27440 (and for that matter the 101.07403) was made up until mid-1957.


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## Orangetruckman

I am in awe of how awesome this site is!

I’m not 100% about this lathe other than it works. The mounting base has 3 holes and the belt cover is like 6” and 10” lathes. It has power cross-feed, the knob is off because it was broken by the PO. It’s a 12” model 101.07403, bed length 48”, Timken bearings (it’s tight, so I don’t need to pull the bearings. When I do, I’ll post the numbers.) and the stamping on the ways says “8622 S” I posted a pic. There’s no plate on the end of the ways. The picture in my profile is of the machine. I knew more about the machine than its PO did, so no good information on original date of purchase.
Here’s the details: I bought my Atlas lathe for $500 in North Plains, Or about November of 2020 from a guy, who’s grandfather owned it and passed it to his dad. The PO’s father had recently passed away and neither of the sons wanted it, so it was listed. He assumed that his grandfather may have been the original purchaser. It was used in a shop for repairing logging trucks for some time.
The lathe hadn’t been used in a few years and was covered with rat poo on the lathe and in the cabinet. The rust was just at the point of causing surface pitting, the leadscrew threads were pointy towards the headstock,
It came on an old school built bench with true 2x dimensional lumber and square drive hardware holding it together. The accessories included: 6” 3 jaw Wescott scroll chuck, the original 8” 4 jaw independent chuck, the open “C” style steady rest, 2 drill chucks, the original MT3-MT2 sleeve, lantern tool post, (these are the tooling for the lantern tool post) 2 LH, 2RH, 1 threading, 1 straight, 3 parting, 1 knurl, 1 boring bar, 3 dead centers, 4 different sized lathe dogs, 3 threaded 1 1/2” x 8tpi backing plates-sm, med, Lg, a drilling pad for the tailstock, a couple adjustable reamers with rust starting, almost a complete set of change gears, a MOLO with the threading section missing  but I printed out the missing section. And finally a portable keyseater that I recently figured out that it’s not missing anything. Let me know if you have any questions.


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  Is the nameplate with the model number on the rear or the right end of the bed?  8622 is the serial number.  No one seems to know what the "S" stood for except that it was not Sears as it is also found on Atlas 10D and 10F of the same period.

If the lead screw is worn to a "V", it is worn out.  A fairly common trick is to flip it end for end, cut the half inch part off of the left end and machine the right end down to 1/2" and thread the end.  And relocate the right bearing to the left a few inches or use it on a 12x24 and find a lead screw off of a 12x36 and modify it to fit the 12x30.  And replace the half nuts, which are still available from Clausing.

The MOLO's of the period had the threading section printed separately but not bound in.  So it is a Version 3 by my numbering system.  Technically, V2 and V3 are the same except for the loose threading section.


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## Orangetruckman

wa5cab said:


> Thanks.  Is the nameplate with the model number on the rear or the right end of the bed?  8622 is the serial number.  No one seems to know what the "S" stood for except that it was not Sears as it is also found on Atlas 10D and 10F of the same period.
> 
> If the lead screw is worn to a "V", it is worn out.  A fairly common trick is to flip it end for end, cut the half inch part off of the left end and machine the right end down to 1/2" and thread the end.  And relocate the right bearing to the left a few inches or use it on a 12x24 and find a lead screw off of a 12x36 and modify it to fit the 12x30.  And replace the half nuts, which are still available from Clausing.
> 
> The MOLO's of the period had the threading section printed separately but not bound in.  So it is a Version 3 by my numbering system.  Technically, V2 and V3 are the same except for the loose threading section.


No problem sir! The name plate is on the backside in the center. I’ve kinda wondered if the “S” in the serial # meant that it was seasoned and ready for use? Stamping a serial # at the same time help identify which ones were ready to be used would make sense?

On the lead screw, I measured thinking about swapping end for end, but the wear would still be about the same area, ugh. So, I bought new half nuts and acme rod with a keyway already milled in for like $200 + shipping from mymachineshop.net just gotta cut to length and turn to size on both ends.
Good to know about the manual. By chance, would you happen to have a guesstimate on what year my lathe is? Thank you in advance and doubly thank you for all the help you provide everyone!


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## wa5cab

My rough guess as to the date of manufacture is late 1943.  

"S" for Seasoned is a possibility.  However, all after about 101.07403 S/N 015000 don't have it.  But the statement in the MOLO about the seasoning is in all versions from 1 through 9.  And probably in Version 0 but I have never seen one (I had been keeping records of the MOLO's for 3 or 4 years before I discovered a catalog photo showing that a version earlier than V1 existed).  Incidentally, the full model number of your machine should be 101.07403-2075, which pins down the bed length.


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## Orangetruckman

Thank you sir!


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## mechmike

I bought my Craftsman 12" lathe to make a back gear for my Atlas milling machine. I learned a lot.  Can anyone help me find out the age of the lathe?  Model #101.07403 plate on back of bed. Serial # stamped on top of bed right end 34155.
Thanks


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## wa5cab

OK.  Late 1951 or early 1952.  Should you happen to, for some other reason, need to pull the spindle and bearings, please report dates on both cups and cones.  In the meantime, what is the bed length (42" or 54")?  And was there anything else stamped on the front way before and/or after the serial number.


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## robert574

Welcome mechmike!  Let me see...
27026 was the highest s/n for that model dated 5/10/1950 on the spindle bearings.  If I graph the s/n's we have and draw a line it comes out to be early 1954.  I'll try some other model numbers and see how they fit in the same time range.

Edit:  This is bringing back memories of the last time I tried to do it.   Had to throw out all the data points except for bearing dates and receipts.  A LOT are calculated (who knows) or a guess based on what someone else guessed at.  Ok ready, my best guess (based on 2 good dates) is Sept 29, 1952.  I think that's the newest it could be.  There are a few slightly older bearing dates mixed in, but I try to use the newest bearings and leave out any old stock.  Seems right.


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## wa5cab

Robert,

Sorry but the highest serial number 3/8" bed 12" machine  currently known to have been dated is a 101.27430 with serial number 035633 dated 1952/12/20.   Or a 101.27430 with serial number 038396 dated 1951/09/10.  But the latter example is well out of sequence.

"Calculated" in general means a straight-line calculation (which means assumed constant production rate) between the unknown date serial number and two other serial numbers with known dates.  However, we know from the existing evidence that Atlas did not practice FIFO with their bearing stock.  And we also know that the production rates fluctuated widely over the years.  One reason we know the latter is that had Atlas been selling as many per month in 1957 as they had been in 1942, they probably would not have discontinued the 3/8" bed machines.  And "Guess" means that I took a quick look at the list and just guessed a range of dates from two or three other known serial numbers and bearing dates, but I did not do any actual calculations.  And we have several examples of earlier dates with higher serial numbers.  Some are noted as being out of sequence.  And some of the dates are from "family history" and the like.  Most of these are noted in the date reference field but I inherited about a third of the serial numbers and did not initially have that field and some others.  For example, the serial number and name tag location field was only added recently.

Also, do NOT include any 10" machines in 12" calculations/estimates/guesses or vice versa as all 10" (except for the QC 10" models  made between late 1947 and sometime in 1951) appear to have had unique serial numbers whereas Sears started  the serial numbers over with each model number change.  So there was a serial number 1 of the 101.07403 but there was NOT a serial number 1 of the 10F.  Actually, we do not know for certain what Atlas or Sears started each serial number pool over at.  However, we do have a number of 3-digit serial numbers so if they didn't start with 1, the most  least that they could have started with was 100.

Finally, any date fields in the serial number database beginning with a blank space are suspect for some reason or other.  Only known/reported bearing dates begin in the first column.


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## robert574

35633 dated 12/20/1952 was the endpoint in my final estimate of 9/29/1952.  It took me a minute to realize that on my spreadsheet.


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## Cadillac STS

Here is mine.  Any thought on date made?


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## wa5cab

Best that I can guess is 1945.  There are usually no better ways to date the babbit bearing 10" or 12" or any of the 6" including the 612 and 618 as Atlas or Timken never put dates on any of the 618 spindle bearings and even if they had, it wouldn't have helped the sleeve bearing 101.07301's.  As I have written before, Atlas or Clausing had already lost or destroyed all of their production records years before anyone started to collect history on the various models.  So the best that we can do is to assume a constant or fixed production rate based on known serial numbers and the fairly well established dates over which the various machines were made.  Common sense would tell us that they probably made more during WW-II than they did before or after the War.  And the sales had probably dropped off near the end or they probably wouldn't have stopped making them.  A few original invoices would have helped but I don't recall anyone ever reporting having one on a 101.07301.


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## esq'z me

I just inherited a late 1936 early 1937 (I think) Craftsman (Atlas) lathe. Serial number* L6 805*
Seems to be in good overall condition just needing TLC.
Here's a photo of the serial number and a photo of the machine. just got it on a table to inspect. What's the consensus best place to find parts?


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## wa5cab

OK.  Assuming that the carriage and the tailstock are out of frame to the right, the model number is either 101.07380 or 101.07360.  The machine has all of the hallmarks of those two models but with the gear guards in place and at the angle the photo was taken, it is not possible to tell whether or not the machine has back gears.  The other thing that cannot be determined is the bed length.  The four choices are 36", 42", 48" or 54".  Which corresponds to a distance between centers of 18, 24, 30 or 36 inches.  Give the bed length and add a photo showing the entire front of the lathe, one taken from the right end looking towards the headstock, from the left end looking towards the tailstock, and from the rear.


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## esq'z me

The bed length is 42" (24 between centers). I just got it up on a table to inspect and work on while I seek a better stand, so getting behind and tail stock photos is not easily done. There is no label or numbers on the back. Here are some other pics:


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## mechmike

wa5cab said:


> OK. Late 1951 or early 1952. Should you happen to, for some other reason, need to pull the spindle and bearings, please report dates on both cups and cones. In the meantime, what is the bed length (42" or 54")? And was there anything else stamped on the front way before and/or after the serial number.





wa5cab said:


> OK. Late 1951 or early 1952. Should you happen to, for some other reason, need to pull the spindle and bearings, please report dates on both cups and cones. In the meantime, what is the bed length (42" or 54")? And was there anything else stamped on the front way before and/or after the serial number.


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## esq'z me

As I stated in last post,, bed is 42 inches. 24" between centers. 
The bearings are Babbitt, no cones, rollers, balls. Plain bearings. Every photo and all documentation I have found points at late 1936 early 1937.
No other markings anywhere other than serial number L6  805 as in photo in first post. A few cast in part numbers on some parts such as tail stock which is L3-5.
It looks exactly like this one (catalog photo) except for the riveted on Craftsman badge instead of painted script,


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## wa5cab

OK.  Your third photo (IMG_4266.jpg) shows the left end of the back gear shaft and bracket.  So your model number is 101.07380 made in early 1936.  Pretty much  everything visible in any of the photos is consistent with that.  Things known to have changed with the 101.07381 and visible in one or more of your photos are legs, tailstock, cross slide, compound and slide, change gear cover, motor switch.

The original nameplate, if it were present, would have been on the rear of the bed near the center.  

My reasoning on the manufacturing date being earlier than you would think has to do with the Sears catalog production schedule.  The 1936 catalog would have hit the streets before Christmas of 1935.

On a totally different subject, everyone who hasn't already done so please complete your Signature in your account (click on your User ID in the main tool bar).  Full name, nickname, handle, etc.  Just something to address you by instead of "Hey you".


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## Vermontguy54

wa5cab said:


> Edited with title change 20200627
> 
> In the combined machine database (742 entries to date) there are 180 10" entries, 21 of which show no serial numbers.  There are 113 Craftsman entries, 19 or which show no serial numbers.  Plus we only have 30 10" and 22 12" bearing dates for Timken equipped 10" or 12".
> 
> Anyway, anyone with any Atlas built machine (not just lathes) who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number;  bed length, serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates are available, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).  Also any comments you wish to make about condition, accessories, when and where purchased, price, etc.
> If your machine is a MK2 6", there is a somewhat more detailed questionnaire also in this sticky area.  If you've responded to that questionnaire, no response is needed here.
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.


My father has a Craftman metal lathe, Model # 101.28991 S/N 000737. I'm trying to determine what year it was manufactured. Can you assist on dating it? Thanks, Brian


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## wa5cab

Sorry for the delay in replying.  I have been trying to come up with a believable explanation for why the serial number does not jive with the model number.  If you refer to the parts manuals in Downloads (or to the poorer copies on Vintage Machinery since access to Downloads requires Donor status), you will find that the nearest model number that almost matches the machine in the photographs is 101.28990.  This is actually the one that you want as most of what Sears sold was described as less motor.  I am 99% sure that 101.28991 means a 101.28990 that came with the motor.  Which explains that.  Unfortunately, out of 824 total entries in the Atlas Machines database, the only other 101.28991 that we have listed is one of the 70 or so carry-overs from back when I originally reorganized the database on Yahoo about a decade ago.  However, ...  

The 1/2" bed 12" swing lathes that replaced the Atlas 10" and Craftsman 12" lathes with 3/8" beds in mid 1957 appear to have had serial numbers starting over at '1'.  The new Craftsman badged and Atlas badged machines were the same except for the names on the badges, plates or decals. And AFAIK, they each had there own serial number block.  So there should if we had enough entries been some cases where the Atlas and the Craftsman machines had the same serial number. Unfortunately, aside from some cases where for example a mill and a lathe had the same serial numbers, we don't have any entries where the serial numbers of two lathes are the same except for one case where a 10" QC lathe was originally entered by one member who later sold it to another member so it technically got entered twice.  But we don't have any cases where two lathes with different model numbers have the same serial number.  So my conclusion about the serial numbers blocks remains an assumption.

The Atlas and the Craftsman 1/2" bed 12" machines were made from mid-1957 until mid 1966 (I think).  The cabinet model 12x36 looked pretty much like the final version 12" except that it had the same right lead screw bearing, lead screw and rotating knob to pull out to engage power cross feed as was used on the 10" and earlier 12".   And the QCGB or the change gears were almost the same as on the early 12" except that there were minor differences in how the QCGB mounted to the bed and headstock.  So some part numbers are different.  

In mid-1966, the final versions of the 12" were introduced.  And the first serial number for both Atlas and Craftsman was apparently 100001.  The right lead screw bearing was changed to a 2-piece steel assembly that was definitely not frangible and needle thrust bearings were added.  The lead screw was shortened slightly, the QCGB output shaft was lengthened slightly, the 5/8" hole eliminated and the OD reduced to 3/4" and, a 1.0 lb-ft slip clutch was added.  The knob on the end of the power cross feed shaft was replaced by a lever assembly.  And one QCGB mounting screw and holes for it was added inside the headstock.

However, assuming that your father did not convert an early 1/2" bed model to a late version (and the model number indicates that he didn't), the machine was made in late 1966 or early 1967.  And got a wrong serial number.


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## Vermontguy54

Wow, interesting how this runs thru such a twisted path! Thank you for the reply and we do have the manual so when I get back there I'll see if I can narrow it down. Appreciate the feedback. Have a great weekend! Thanks.


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## wa5cab

Yeah.  If he is still with us, you should ask your father if he remembers or has some way to determine when or about when he actually bought it.  But I can think of only two reasons for the what I will call for the time being the incorrect serial number.

(1)  Atlas (or Sears) initially just started the serial numbers over at "000001" and made an unknown number of lathes before they changed to the way that at least  51 examples are (started over at "100001").

(2)  Someone screwed up and stamped the serial number as "000737" instead of "100737" as it should have been.  And went ahead and used the plate instead of scrapping it as they should have done.

There are also 17 examples not counting your Father's of serial numbers that begin with "0", all of which agree with their early model numbers.

So unless more examples turn up of late model number lathes with S/N beginning with "0" instead of "1", I am going to assume that it was a mistake and that the S/N should have been "100737".

Also, unless the MOLO (Manual Of Lathe Operation) didn't come with the lathe, post the year that will be on the MOLO's Copyright page.


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## DiscoDan

Just picked up this Atlas TV36 as part of a donation to Tuckahoe Steam & Gas. The prior owner added 3-1/2" riser blocks! He was doing wood bowl turning on it. The gear train is missing a gear or gears. Can someone tell me what is missing? Or send me a picture?


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## wa5cab

Whatever is missing isn't standard, anyway.  You should go to Downloads and download the latest revision manual on the 10F.  First thing that I would do is to remove the risers and put it back to stock configuration.  No one is going to have anything other than guesses as to what is missing in its modified state.


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## Atempt

Hi, I bought this one off craigslist; I know nothing about these machines but trying to answer all the common questions I see on this forum:  Model# 101.07402.  I can't find the serial number.  The bed is 3/8 thick, it's 42" long, the lead screw is 5/8" diameter, it does not have powered crossfeed.   I have it in parts now trying to scrape all the grease off of it.  It didn't run when I got it..needed a new motor.  No tooling except what is shown.  I think it tipped over previously.  All the guards have been broken and welded back together.  It has the upgraded grease zerk.


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## davek181

I have a Craftsman 12" lathe, tag 101.07380 and serial number stamped on the bed 1863S.  Not sure of the year but as close as I can tell it was made in the late 30's or early 40's.  It was originally a babbit headstock, now soon Timken.  I added a Quick change gear box and power feed cross slide.  Has a  54 inch bed.


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## wa5cab

@Atempt,

If the nameplate with model number stamped into it is present and attached to the rear of the bed, you should find the serial number stamped into the top of the right end of the front way.  That is where it always was until the nameplate was moved to the right end of the bed.  Which did not happen until several years  after the 101.07403 came out.

Before you attempt ti run the machine and ruin the bearings (assuming that has not already happened), you will need to remove the grease fittings and plug the holes where they were added.  Then you should remove the headstock spindle and carefully clean all of the dried grease from the headstock and  spindle bearings and carefully inspect the bearing cups and cones.  While you have the bearings out, please read and report the dates found engraved into the cups and cones.

You should add the felt plugs into the oil cups.  The proper lubricant specified by Atlas from about 1960 on is SAE 20 ND.  The acceptable alternate is ISO 68 rated for use in hydraulic systems.  Mobile sells an ISO 68 oil that they call Heavy Medium Circulating Oil.  I used that for several years although last time that I needed ti replenish my oil supply SAE 20 ND was again available.

The likely reason for the broken guards, hand wheels and cranks is that the PO didn't follow the factory instructions to properly anchor the stand.  The home-made stand needs to have some diagonal braces added, too.

Your machine was probably made in 1939.


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## wa5cab

@davek181,

Your machine would have originally been made in 1936.  Does your machine have "L6" (without the "") stamped into the bed to the left of the serial number?  Also, did the Timken head stock that you are changing to come from the same machine as the QCGB and/or the power cross feed carriage?  Was that machine a 101.07403 or a 101.27440?  And while you had the headstock disassembled, did you record the dates on the bearings?


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## davek181

My serial number has no letters before it, just 3873s only.  I reported a different number before probably due to a memory error or transcribing error.  Still according to the database chart I found it is a 1936.  The headstock and QCGB and apron and cross slide are random ebay buys of no known origin, though I did compare the headstock to the old one before buying and it looks identical to the babbit one except the bearings of course, the color and the switch opening.  My lathe was blue, or at least when I got it it was.  The headstock is grey.  As near as My knowledge and comparison photos I could dig up my guess is 101.07403 origin.  I have not yet mounted it, nor disassembled it.  It is very smooth in operation and looks very low mile, so to speak, by pulley wear, so disassembly never crossed my mind.

The QCGB is grey and bolted right on to the bed, the banjo mounts were a little different from the original geared one.  I got a new 3/4 keyed leadscrew and turned the ends to fit.  I did have to shim the apron down about .060" to make the leadscrew centered through it.  I still need to make a right side leadscrew support .060" different to complete the project.  The QCGB works well as long as I don't use it near the end of the bed due to the difference in support heights.  It works fine nearer the headstock and I have used it many times for threading, feeding and cross feeding.

My lathe is turning into the same type of thing as my cars and motorcycles do.  When people ask me what year they are, I ask what part of it they are looking at so as to give them an accurate answer.


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## wa5cab

OK.  Did you once live in Clarkston, WA?  If you did not, then the #3873 machine listed in the database online is not your machine.  I haven't uploaded a revision in several weeks.  This I think is the first time this actually happened in our database  but the stupid people at Sears apparently insisted upon a new serial number block starting over at "1" every time that the model number changed.  So, assuming that Sears bought at least 3873 of each of the 12 different models of 3/8" bed 12" machines, there are or were 12 12" machines with each serial number.

So before I go any farther, answer that question about Clarkston.  And also, give me the bed length or the rated distance between centers.

On the color issue, in the 1930's and 1940's, Sears used various shades of blue, red, green and one year gold for the color of the 12" machines that Atlas built and Sears sold.  The Atlas 9" and 10" were up until 1957, always dark machinery gray.  I don't know for certain when Sears changed to gray but had always assumed that it was in 1957.  But you say that you have a 3/8" bed 12" headstock that is gray so I guess I need to add color to the database.  And AFAIK, the 1/2" bed 12" regardless of whether Sears or Atlas were always machinery gray (not dark machinery gray).


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## davek181

I bought the machine from a guy in Clarkston a few years back.  I am across the river in Lewiston ID.  He had updated to a craftsman commercial and listed this one on craigslist, and my lathe addiction/affliction started there.  He said he had rebuilt and repainted it the same color, and it is in pretty good shape for the age.  I am sure it was all original before I started messing with things.  The bed is 54" long.

The headstock I got has been painted I am pretty sure because it is too perfect otherwise and lacking an imprint from the back gear mounting, so color may not be actual.  Or did I really end up with a 1/2" headstock?  I asked the seller before purchase if it would work on my 07380 and he replied that it would bolt right on.  Is there a number on the headstock somewhere that will ID it?


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## wa5cab

Well, that was a third possibility that I had forgotten all about (same lathe new owner).  So the lathe that you have is the one with serial # 3873 that was already in the database but with a new owner and location.  And soon to have a new headstock.  And the database entry that you have is probably current to when you bought it.  

If you happen to know or lacking that can get in touch with the guy across the river, find out whether he is a member here or of the groups.io Atlas-Craftsman group and send me that plus his user ID (or email address).  I will update the entry in the database for what you have done or will be doing to the machine, upload the revised database and post a message that a revision has been uploaded.

On the question as to what kind of headstock you have, yes, the part number is in the casting, at least for the 3/8" bed ones.  The headstock part number for the babbit bearing 101.07381 should be L4-2A.  For the Timken bearing 101.07401 should be L4-2T.  For the 101.07403 should be L4-2TA.  At least that is what the parts lists that I have show.  The difference between the L4-2T and the L4-2TA should be the shape of the motor switch opening, either oval or rectangular.  The part number for the 1/2" bed head stocks should be 383-003 for all models from late 1957 on.  I don't know whether you can put a 1/2" bed headstock onto a 3/8" bed or not.  And if you can, I don't know whether the spindle will be the same height as the tailstock or not.  I would guess that it would probably fit but that the casting might stick down too far to clamp to the bed.


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## davek181

I have not kept in touch with the guy I bought it from, I do not know his name or anything more.  I imagine he was a member to land in your database.  I do remember him telling me the guy he bought it from had used it for wood and that is why he took it apart to clean it up and subsequently repainted.

The headstock I have purchased is a L4-2TA.  It was listed as a L4-27A on the ebay ad but I have confirmed the "T" and assume he misread it.  It has a square switch hole opposed to my oval one.  So it appears to be from a 101.07403 which should fit from all I have read and heard.  That is a relief and when I get the time I will install it.  If I do pull it apart to inspect it I will report the bearing dates.  Looking at your database that I have downloaded the 101.07403 was a popular model with dates shown in the DB from 1939 to 1956.

Also discovered more columns in the database that contain more info yet.  Your note says you decided it was a 101.07381 .  I have confirmed the tag reads 101.07380.  It came to me with all the items you had listed except the drill press.  I have added a milling attachment since, in addition to the QCGB and and power crossfeed, and soon to be installed  timken headstock


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## wa5cab

OK.  The guy in WA could be an H-M member but he could also be an atlas-craftsman@groups.io member or have been an atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups member.   Including already being in the database when I took over the care and feeding of it 20+ years ago.  But it isn't really important since he no longer has the machine.

But I have another question for you.  Atlas had an early and a late set of bed legs.  The early ones were rectangular or nearly square, interchangeable  and symmetrical.  The later ones that at least according to the photos in the Power Tools catalogs came out in 1938 were wider, only went on one way,  and viewed from the side leaned toward the center of the bed.  Which type do you have?  

Except for the 101.07383 which was made from 1938 through 1945, the other early models were all made for only one or two years,  The 101.07403 was made from about 1940 until mid 1957 (catalog years).  So there are more of them around than of any of the earlier ones.  They also did not make a version of it that did not have back gears.


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## davek181

I think they must be the later legs, they are not interchangeable that I can see, and they do taper to the bed.  I will send a photo for reference.  I have set the headstock I intend to install on the bed.  It looks like it will be a pretty direct fit.  Also a photo of the serial number and ID tag, and the shop they are in.  Please excuse the mess we are currently reorganizing the shop.


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## wa5cab

No, those are the early symmetrical legs.   The later legs are wider and obviously assymetrical left to right.

The blue is the same as or very similar to one of the early Craftsman colors.  The gray looks like the machinery gray used on the later 12" 1/2" bed ways machines.  Atlas may have changed to it in the early 1950's but it is difficult to say for certain as catalog photos are mostly B&W.


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## davek181

Color might be a good addition to your database just to get a better picture of what was made, but would be hard to update all old entries,  future ones would show a trend I am sure..  I think my lathe was originally blue as shown.  The apron's origin I do not know as it was an ebay purchase that didn't specify what machine it came from, though I think the color is original.  The QCGB as near as I can tell from a posting on this site describing the different QCGB models is off of the later 3000 series he called it,  distinguished by the out put clutch.  I believe it's color is original too.  The gear cover that I found to fit around it best came from another ebay purchase and labeled as fitting a Craftsman commercial lathe.  I had to fabricate a hinge for it, and I believe it's color is original.  My new headstock is a random color I think as it has obviously been repainted.  

My whole lathe is getting the patchwork look to it, but I don't care as long as it functions well.  So far each improvement has been just that, an improvement.  After the headstock I think I will be at the end of the upgrades I can do, other than a taper attachment though I don't foresee a need for one for my uses.  I could always make one as a mill project if I run out of things to do and have the time.


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## wa5cab

OK.  I added a Color field to the database which will appear in the online copy next time that I do an upload.  But I think that you are correct that any concerted effort to go back and fill in the field would likely be a waste of time.  There are over 800 records in the file, of which probably over 700 are either Atlas or Craftsman lathes.  It is highly likely, given the number of years represented.  The ADMIN field at the right end of the .DBF fo;e is either the date that the record was added or in a few instances the date of revision.  Anyway, the majority of the records are dated Feb 02, 2015.  However, I had been maintaining a data file for an unknown number of years before that using a data file that Yahoo provided.  And I have no way to find out who started it or when.  Anyway, I there is a good chance that many of the owners are now dead or no longer have the machines listed.  Trying to find out what the as-found color was in most cases would be an exercise in futility.


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## davek181

Success!  Headstock installed.  Less than 1/2 thousandth lateral play at the spindle, as opposed to near 5 thou with the babbit head.  Cleaned cross slide and compound and adjusted gibbs while I was about it.   650 RPM .004 feed rate. .005 depth, brazed carbide tool on test cut on drill rod.   Less than .001" taper on roughly 6" cut, good surface finish.  I can live with that, since it is only double the spindle play and no spring cut.  Don't know if I dare get the headstock preload tighter.

Drilled and milled recesses to install 4 ball oilers on cross slide while I had it off.  Was hard to know if oil had penetrated the cross slide into the ways before.  Now I can see oil being forced out when oiling the ball oilers which makes me feel much relieved to know there is oil getting in there.


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## Joncooey

You guys have any info regarding the date of an Atlas V54 looks like S/N: is 025169.  I have a '42 -ish TH48 and got this one (in a box) for free.  Seems to have a lot fewer hours than mine so I feel it shouldn't be used for parts.  Original owner used it for gun-smithing, was well cared for.  Last guy disassembled it.  Just have to see if it's all there.  Waiting for the guy to find the rest of it.


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## wa5cab

Guesstimate would be mid-1941.  If the babbit bearings are still good and have some shims left,, use them.  If not, swap headstocks.


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## Joncooey

Appreciate the info.


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## wa5cab

You're welcome.  BTW, if you click on your User ID near the right end of the main tool bar, you will be in your Account.  Among other things, you can set up your signature so that it is automatically appended to each post.  And if you care to do it, that is also where you put your brag list.  I forget the details but there are limits to characters and lines, which are spelled out in the chart that appears if you click on the Donations tab in the main tool bar.


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## RebelJD

Hello, I recently acquired an Atlas 618.  It will make a nice companion to my Craftsman 12" which I restored a few years ago.  I plan to restore the 618 after I finish a few other projects.  The serial number on the 618 is 5666.  Any idea when this was made.

Also, not sure if I ever logged my Craftsman 12", do I do that here also.


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## wa5cab

To answer your last question first, by default, this is the accepted thread in which to report new (to you) machines, serial numbers, bed lengths, etc.  Although there are plenty of examples to the contrary, there should be only a few posts here regarding a single machine.,  Questions about it and the restoration tale belong in the regular A/C threads.

If you aren't certain whether or not you reported your 12", just post the serial number, model number and bed length (only the 10" include the bed length in the model number).  I'll let you know whether or not it was reported.

Back to your new to you 618, unfortunately neither Atlas nor Timken ever engraved the bearing inspection dates on the bearings in the  6" lathes, mills or shapers.  So absent any other info (such as original invoice, Grandpa's memory, etc), all that we can do about dating those machines is an educated guess assuming Summer of 1936 to Summer of 1973 as the span of production for the 612 and 618, constant production rates and something more than the highest known serial number (currently 27421) for the total production.  Anyway, subject to those caveat's, your 618 would have been made around July of 1944.


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## Atempt

@wa5cab
Thanks for the help, I had time to take everything apart this week and remove the grease zerks.   So Model# 101.07402, Serial # 1538 S (it's very faint).   I looked at the cups/bearings and I don't see a date.  I'm guessing whoever installed the grease zerks replaced them.
The cups 16284 - B ;  14276 - B
The bearings  16150 ; 14125

Any guidance if the cups/bearings should be replaced?  They feel smooth now that the grease is out of them I think.  The grease wasn't dried.  The headstock spindle does have 3 pretty noticeable grooves wore into it though.


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## wa5cab

@Atempt, 

WRT the wear marks, I don't know about the left most (in the photo).  The other two are probably from the bushings in the ID of the cone pulley and the small spindle back gear.  I wouldn't worry about them.  But as you have the spindle out, I would replace the three bushings.

What is that ring between the spindle flange and the bearing?   

Absence of a date engraved in the cup and cone is because Atlas or Timken did not start doing that until about late 1939 after the 101.07403 came out.  I would examine the bearing cups and cones and if they don't show any significant wear, probably not replace them.  It would have been probably better had you adjusted them and checked the runout before pulling the spindle.  You could reinstall the spindle and two bearings without reinstalling the pulley and back gears.  But you will have to pull them again regardless of whether or not you decide to replace them.


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## mu2rick

i am trying to put into service (restore) a craftsman lathe that has been in the back corner of my shop for over 20 years.
Craftsman lathe Atlas
Model 101-27440
Serial # 12L -038132
12 x 36
Grey, QCGB with wasp waist knobs
Steady rest, dead center, Jacobs chuck for tail stock
the handle for the split nut is broken off flush with the surface of the apron and missing. the rest of the unit appears in good shape. i am new to the forum and tried to download the parts manual without success. (no permissions for downloads). looking for part numbers for the handle and scroll. how can i get access to the parts manual?
Rick


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## mu2rick

also, the bed is 3/8" and 46 inches long. don't know the year of manufacture or the history before i bought it about 21 years ago.
Rick


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## mu2rick

sorry, i didn't read the fine print. i see you have to donate to download. I'll do that and i should be able to see what i need.
thanks
rick


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## mu2rick

let me know if you need more information for the database.
Rick


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## wa5cab

I guess that someone already clued you in to the fact that full access to Downloads requires Donor status (any level).  If you click on the Donations tab in the main tool bar, you will see a chart with the details.  

Also, the bed length is measured as LOA.  So it includes the roughly 18" under the head stock.  Your machine has a 54" bed.

You will find the users & parts manual sorted with 101.27430 (the 12x24 version).  Note that other than the presence of a QCGB, the 101.27430 and 101.27440 are the same as the change gear 101.07403.  The first and only original illustrated part list on the 3/8" bed 12" lathes with or without QCGB dates from 1951.  I have been "building" illustrated parts lists on the earlier 12" but have only completed two or three.

You will find instructions for using Downloads in a file in the Sticky area at top of the Atlas forum, and in the general instructions for using the site. 

The part of the scroll (half-nut actuator) that should stick out the front of the apron could be sheared off but shearing it off should have damaged the apron, which I see no sign of.  It is more likely that someone removed the actuator lever and pushed the scroll back.  The scroll and lever were made two different ways.  Most had the lever retained by peening the shaft in place.  Later ones had internal threads in the end of the shaft and the lever was retained by an oval head (rack & Panel) machine screw.  Assuming that the shaft is not broken off, modify the shaft and lever and retain with a screw.


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## wa5cab

We were both writing at the same time.


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## mu2rick

So I guess this is an early 1950s machine? Did I give you enough info to put it in the database?


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## wa5cab

No and yes.  Yes, you gave me enough info to add the machine to the database.

But no, this is not an early fifties machine.  The first 12" Craftsman lathes appeared in the 1936 power tools catalog.  These were the 101.07360 (no back gears) and the 101.07380 (came with back gears installed).  These both had babbit spindle bearings and the externally visible characteristic was a fabricated change gear cover and an electrical junction box mounted on the fixed portion of the change gear cover,.  The following catalog year (1937) these two became 101.07361 and 101.07381.  The cast cover appeared, the motor switch was moved to a hole in the front of the headstock and the junction box wasn't used.  There were some other changes, too.  And the first Timken bearing model appeared, the 101.07400.  There does not appear to have ever been a Timken equipped model without back gears.

In 1938 they were 101.07362, 101.07382 and 101.101.07401.

In 1939 they were 101.07383 and 101.07402.  The same year the 10F was introduced and I think all models got the new change gears with the longer hub.  I think also that the model without back gears was dropped.  At least no 101.07363 have ever turned up.

Anyway, your machine was probably built in 1939.


----------



## redliter

I have a Craftsman 101.07301, serial 14907. My father passed it down to me, he was second owner. Appreciate any dating info you can provide.


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## wa5cab

So far we have no firm dating on the 101.07301.  However, based on the current highest known serial # of 30965, probably 32000 were made between about 1939/01 and about 1957/07/01.
Based on a simple straight line calculation, yours would have been made around mid 1947.  However, production probably dropped at the end of WW-II so that might push yours back to say mid 1945.


----------



## JDAinPA

I just bought a Master Craftsman badged lathe. I'm still going over it in fine detail. So far I can confirm there's a stamping on the operator side of the bed near the tailstock. It's stamped MODEL NO. 101-L5A 4016S. The bed is 36". It's an odd combination, a 12" lathe with 18" between centers. It has 8 speed belt drive, babbitt bearings, no back gears, no quick change. It has the square feet, and the oval faceplate around the on/off switch. It's a cast change gear cover door, hinged at the back, with a 96T threading chart (part L5-28A).

It's got 2 mil slop horizontally and 4 mil vertically in the front bearing. There's still at least one shim left, so I'll be pulling the bearing caps soon. Otherwise it seems in decent condition. The previous owner added a tachometer, and the motor is an Emerson 1/3 hp with a fabricated steel mounting bracket added, but otherwise looks stock. It doesn't look like it was repainted but I still can't find a model/serial plate.


----------



## JDAinPA

By the way, this discussion was a key part of my research in deciding to buy this lathe. I've read enough on this site to know modern lathes in this price range take a lot of work to make them even functional. Knowing how many Atlas Craftsman lathes are in service and that parts are mostly available really helped. Restoring and using an antique will give me some satisfaction as well.


----------



## wa5cab

Yes, it probably irritates SB owners in particular but there is little doubt that there are more Atlas and Atlas-Craftsman machines still in existence today than any two of the next most prolific badges.   They built and sold at least 92407 of the 10" alone.  And never mind the other 21 or so size groups.


----------



## Brin

I don't know if you're still looking for folks to email you this information directly as stated in an older thread, but I just purchased a new-to-me Atlas-built Craftsman machinist's lathe with the following information. It was owned by a local man who presumably used it to support his welding company in the Chicago suburbs. It's not inconceivable that he was the original owner, judging by some of the other tools which were in his shop. He passed in 2002, but someone in his family was taking care of his shop and tools in the last 20 years. Although it has a lot of grease and grime from years of use, and the (apparently original?) motor could use some TLC, if not a replacement, my little brother was able to turn out an aluminum top as a test run on it. Of course, like every little brother, he left Big Sister to clean up the mess (and swarf). 

I'm happy to send the following via email if you prefer.

Serial Number: 10825 S

Model Number: 101.07383

Bed Length: 36"

Bearing dates (if known): Unknown - but I'm happy to look if someone can point me to where to start (Is this referring the bearing that holds the lead screw?

Location of nameplate (rear of bed or right end of bed): Rear of Bed

Location of serial number (right end of front way or nameplate or both): Right end of front way.


----------



## Brin

This was the lathe in its original home - Note the after-market switch box which replaced the broken original toggle somewhere along the way. 



Here she is in her new home in my shop (with my wood lathe out of frame to the left). And with the mess left behind by my dear little brother after he turned his little top. The more things change, the more they stay the same ...


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## wa5cab

Brin,

Actually, the way that you reported it is fine.  I really don't recall ever writing that I preferred info sent direct by email.  If you will give me the post number (assuming that it was a post in this thread), I will correct or delete as required.


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## wa5cab

Brin,

On the subject of dates, that probably only applies to the 101.0740x and the 101.27430 and and 101.27440, and only to those made prior to about 1953.  The babbit bearing models have no known way to date them other than an educated guess based upon serial number and model number tied to the Craftsman Power Tools catalogs and which models appear in them.  And the 101.07383 at least originally was a babbit bearing model.

WRT the size of your particular lathe, in the USA lathes are generally sized as Swing x Distance between centers.  Scaling one of your photos, it looks like yours is probably a 12x18.  This is probably the rarest size.  (paragraph edited to match reality).  You can confirm this by measuring the length in inches of the front way.  The conversion list is:

12x18  36"
12x24  42"
12x30  48"
12x36  54"

The distance between centers is measured with a dead center in the spindle 3MT taper (no chuck installed) and with a 2MT dead center in the tailstock ram with the ram retracted to the Zero mark and with the right end of the 10D-6 tailstock base flush with the right end of the ways.

The only thing that I see wrong with your machine is that the Previous Owner who removed the motor switch and either oval or rectangular switch mounting plate and installed the drum switch should have reinstalled the plate (which changed circa 1942) and put a blanking plug in the switch mounting hole.  If you check, I would expect to find swarf inside the headstock at that point.  If you do not find the plate, use something else but plug that hole before the next time that you turn the motor on.


----------



## Brin

wa5cab said:


> Brin,
> 
> I don't recall writing such a request about anything except the Mk 2 6".  But if I did, if you will tell me the thread title and post number, I will track it down and correct it.
> 
> On the subject of dates, that probably only applies to the 101.0740x and the 101.27430 and and 101.27440, and only to those made prior to about 1953.  The babbit bearing models have no known way to date them other than an educated guess bases upon serial number and model number tied to the Craftsman Power Tools catalogs and which models appear in them.  And the 101.07383 at least originally was a babbit bearing model.
> 
> WRT the size of your particular lathe, in the USA lathes are generally sized as Swing x Distance between centers..  Scaling one of your photos, it looks like yours is a 12x18.  You can confirm this by measuring the length in inches of the front way.  The conversion list is:
> 
> 12x18  36"
> 12x24  42"
> 12x30  48"
> 12x36  54"
> 
> The distance between centers is measured with a dead center in the spindle 3MT taper (no chuck installed) and with a 2MT dead center in the tailstock ram with the ram retracted to the Zero mark and with the right end of the 10D-6 tailstock base flush with the right end of the ways.
> 
> Scaling one of your photos says that your machine is probably a 12x18 (I must have been looking at the wrong scale).  This is probably the rarest size.





wa5cab said:


> The only thing that I see wrong with your machine is that the Previous Owner who removed the motor switch and either oval or rectangular switch mounting plate and installed the drum switch should have reinstalled the plate (which changed circa 1942) and put a blanking plug in the switch mounting hole.  If you check, I would expect to find swarf inside the headstock at that point.  If you do not find the plate, use something else but plug that hole before the next time that you turn the motor on.


Yes, the ways bed is 36" long from tip to tip, giving this an 18" center-center distance, if I understand your conversions correctly. I apologize for not being clearer in my post. This would then be a 12X18 with a 36" bed.

And thanks for the tip about the switch hole. I'll figure out a plug for it.

Do you know approximately when this would have been manufactured based on the serial number of 10825 S?


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## wa5cab

Brin,

As the original plate is likely long gone, probably the best way in which to cover the hole would be to get a piece of about 16 gauge aluminum or brass sheet and cut out a rectangular piece about half an inch wider and taller than the hole location dimensions and attach it with two screws in the existing tapped holes.

On the age question, where is the name plate (two choices are on the rear of the bed near the center or on the right end of the bed).  And where is the serial number (two choices are stamped into the top of the front way near the right end or stamped into the nameplate).

One thing to bear in mind when dating a serial number is that Atlas with the 10" did not start the serial numbers over with each model number change but Sears for some reason did.  So the 10" serial numbers got much larger than did the 12".

You may be happy with the short bed but if you would prefer having a 12x36, someone within the past month or so had a lathe with a  54" bed and was looking for a short bed.  I don't recall whether he had a 10" or a 12" but if his machine was about the same vintage as yours that might not matter.  I also don't recall where he was located.


----------



## Brin

The stamped serial number is stamped into the bed on the right hand side, and the Craftsman model number plate is on the back in the center. I'm ok with the 36" bed at this time. I'm not sure I would have sufficient room for a 54" bed in my shop (which is primarily a wood shop).


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## wa5cab

One other thing I'll mention is that should you ever have all of the shims removed from under the bearing caps and the spindle is still too loose, one fix that some owners will make is to replace the headstock with one from a 101.07403 which has Timken bearings.


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## LucknowKen

wa5cab said:


> Yes, it probably irritates SB owners in particular





Brin said:


> ....but I just purchased a new-to-me Atlas-built Craftsman machinist's lathe with the following information. ....


Sweet Atlas Craftsman  with accessories....Looks awesome. As a SBL owner i hope it is OK to say, I like it.


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## wa5cab

One more thing that you should do is to remove both bearing caps one at a time and measure the remaining thickness of the shims that should be found under each end of the bearing caps.  These shims are originally 0.010" thick and are made up of five pieces of 0.002" thick shim stock.

If you didn't acquire a copy of the Atlas Manual Of Lathe Operations with your lathe, you should acquire one.  This manual was first printed in 1937 and was revised several times between 1937 and 1982.  From 1937 through 1953, all say Copyright 1937.  Plus in most years there was a version for the Atlas 10" and one for the Craftsman 12".

Back several years ago I wrote a history of the MOLO and in gathering info for the history bought a bunch of the MOLO's.  Unfortunately, I ended up with more for the 10" than for the 12".  However, I think that I have one extra that would match you machine.  I have about $33 in it and you may have one of them for that plus MM postage.  Assuming that you don't already have a suitable one of course.

The reason that I kinda got sidetracked on the MOLO is that in the correct version, it explains all about the care and feeding of the babbit spindle bearings.  After 1953, there is nothing in the MOLO about the babbit bearings.


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## Amanco50

Just picked up an Atlas 10x36 Commercial.  Bed plate casting date 02/21/1964 Model 101.28940 Serial Number 7685


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## Calnor

Hi I’ve recently purchased a 12700 sn 106499 here in western Canada. Anyone care to share some knowledge on this machine?

Will


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## wa5cab

The 12700 was made for use in schools.  So there probably not too many were made.  We only have four of them in the machine database.  However, the only difference between it and the 3996  is the cabinet and the counter shaft  and the only difference between the 3996 and the 3995 is the bed length.


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## neshkoro

I just acquired an Atlas Lathe TH42 serial # 090083. Can anyone tell me about its age or if parts are available and where from. I did find a number of parts on Ebay. Not sure of size/ fit, etc.
Thanks for your help!


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## wa5cab

Your lathe will have Timken spindle bearings, is a 10" swing and is 24" between centers.  It is a 10F and should have a horizontal countershaft.  It was probably made in 1951.  eBay is one source of used parts.  And we have a For Sale area at the bottom of the list of Fora.  

Atlas bought Clausing circa 1950 and in the late 60's or early 70's changed the company name from Atlas-Clausing to Clausing-Atlas and then to Clausing Industrial.They are still a source of some new parts,  Phone # is 800-323-0972.  Another source of some parts is MyMachineShop.com

In Downloads under Atlas... you will find manuals and parts drawings.


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## neshkoro

Thanks for the reply and information.
There's a back story to this lathe. (As i'm sure there are to most used machines).
I worked as a Tool and Die maker for a good portion of my career. At the place I worked, there was an old timer working there. He was the guy that bought the lathe brand new, originally. After some years he decided to get rid of it so he sold it to the company to use in the tool room. It stayed with the company for many years. Over those years they bought many spare parts and just kept them along with the machine.  I worked there for 37 years before retiring. The lathe was there the entire time. Some time after I retired some genius decided they didn't need that machine any more and gave to one of the employees. The spare parts disappeared, were thrown away, somehow gone! He kept it for a few years, never using it. He then gave it to another retired guy who kept it in his garage uncovered and unprotected for some time. I had been trying to get it from him for 3-4 years. Finally, last week he decided he was ready to get rid of it and gave it to me. Dirty, rusty and broken, it's now mine. The first thing I'm doing is disassembling it. I need to do a lot of cleaning and de rusting. Over the years it was painted some ugly blue color. I need to get rid of that, too. It will be a fun project!!


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## wa5cab

Well, that is better than the average story.  Too bad about all of the spare parts.  And the neglect before you finally got it.  The original color was probably dark machinery gray.


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## neshkoro

It's too bad that some people don't know the value of certain items. Some times it's more than monetary value. It could be a  part that's no longer made, hard to find, etc. When you look on Ebay for parts, I'm amazed at the cost of some replacement parts. I am stripping what parts I can and repainting it gray!


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## Andy2112

Is there some sort of master file with the S/N listings?
I bought an Atlas 10F yesterday and the S/N is 092310.
I can't seem to locate where the bearing dates are.
Thank you,
Andy

Disregard....I found it. Looks like the search function is your friend


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## mvagusta

I was recently given an Atlas 618 by a friend.  It was missing some parts like a chuck, change gears, jackshaft, etc., but it looks like it is in pretty good shape for how old it is.  The serial number is 011120 and I am guessing it was built somewhere between 1958 and 1964.  Would that be about right?


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## wa5cab

Andy,

The Atlas, Craftsman and AA database is actually kept in two locations (three if you count the master on my machine here at home).  One location is in the Sticky area at the top of the Atlas/Craftsman/etc. Forum.  But I have been known to forget to update that one.  The other is in the Atlas/Craftsman area in Downloads (which requires Donor status to see, but you are OK for that).  I update it sporadically 

However, the only places that have an actual date engraved on them are the Timken spindle bearing cups and cones.  Atlas built there first lathe, a 9". circa the latter part of 1931.  And shortly after built a version that Sears sold under the Master Craftsman name.  The 1932 date comes from the fact that the first Sears Power Tools catalog to have the 9" in it is dated 1932,  The first several Atlas catalogs that we have are numbered but not dated up through about 1939.  Atlas didn't initially build the lathes with anything but Babbit bearings which are always undated.  Atlas began to offer the 10" around 1935 and the first 12" appeared in the 1936 Sears Power Tools catalog, but only with babbit bearings..  The following year the 101.07400 also appeared with Timken bearings.  The earliest reported engraved bearing date is in a 10D S/N 002107 dated 1936/01/28.

Anyway, your machine was probably made in 1953.  If you can report the model number off of the nameplate on the right end of the bed or if the nameplate is missing, the LOA of the front way (not the distance between centers), I will add it to the database.  If you need to pull the spindle anyway, please report whether or not there is any date on the bearings.  But there probably isn't as either Atlas or Timken quit engraving the dates on the spindle bearing cups and cones we think in 1951 or 1952.


----------



## Andy2112

wa5cab said:


> Andy,
> 
> The Atlas, Craftsman and AA database is actually kept in two locations (three if you count the master on my machine here at home).  One location is in the Sticky area at the top of the Atlas/Craftsman/etc. Forum.  But I have been known to forget to update that one.  The other is in the Atlas/Craftsman area in Downloads (which requires Donor status to see, but you are OK for that).  I update it sporadically
> 
> However, the only places that have an actual date engraved on them are the Timken spindle bearing cups and cones.  Atlas built there first lathe, a 9". circa the latter part of 1931.  And shortly after built a version that Sears sold under the Master Craftsman name.  The 1932 date comes from the fact that the first Sears Power Tools catalog to have the 9" in it is dated 1932,  The first several Atlas catalogs that we have are numbered but not dated up through about 1939.  Atlas didn't initially build the lathes with anything but Babbit bearings which are always undated.  Atlas began to offer the 10" around 1935 and the first 12" appeared in the 1936 Sears Power Tools catalog, but only with babbit bearings..  The following year the 101.07400 also appeared with Timken bearings.  The earliest reported engraved bearing date is in a 10D S/N 002107 dated 1936/01/28.
> 
> Anyway, your machine was probably made in 1953.  If you can report the model number off of the nameplate on the right end of the bed or if the nameplate is missing, the LOA of the front way (not the distance between centers), I will add it to the database.  If you need to pull the spindle anyway, please report whether or not there is any date on the bearings.  But there probably isn't as either Atlas or Timken quit engraving the dates on the spindle bearing cups and cones we think in 1951 or 1952.


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  Before I update both copies of the database, is there anything else that you would want included in your record?  Maybe you had better look at the file first.  The file name is ATLASDB.DBF which is a dBase 4 or later database file.  And the index file is ATLASDB.MDX which is the multiple index file.  As I doubt that you still have a working copy of dBase, Microsoft Excel and most of its bzillion clones will open and display the DBF file but AFAIK cannot use the MDX file.  Most versions of Microsoft Access will also open and display it but may or may not know what to do with the MDX file.


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## Andy2112

I opened the file with Excel. Its on my work computer so I will look it over tomorrow and see if there is anything to add.


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## wa5cab

OK.


----------



## Andy2112

wa5cab said:


> OK.


Here is as a complete lists as I can provide based on the Excel sheet.

Description Lathe 10X54

Badge Atlas

Mod NR TH 54

Serial # 092310

Date Made 1953

Date Ref Guestimate

Ser # Loc Right end of bed

Owner Andy/USA/OH/New Knoxville

Cost ACQD $450 USD

Acquired 07/02/2022

Notes 4 jaw chuck, Several pieces of tooling, 8 change gears, lots of old measuring devices,

Thread & Lathe Operation manuals, Lubrication chart, level and gear clearance

 Instructions


----------



## Bigolac

I acquired what I thought was a wood lathe (which is what I intended it to be used as), but now thinking it's an Atlas metal lathe.  The only identifiers I can find is a 'Master Craftsman' badge and 'L4-694s' on the end of the bed.  It looks to be a 12x36 lathe.

Runs fine and true, but the rear bearing gets really hot after a couple minutes and am worried I'm causing more wear than necessary.  I used oil in the oilers, but it looks like it's getting a lot of friction somehow.  The front bearing is much cooler.  Not sure if I'm missing parts on the spindle or not.


----------



## wa5cab

Bigolac,

It was most probably made in 1936 and was sold  as a wood lathe under the catalog number of 99PM2026.  What's there is the same as on the Craftsman 101.07360.  What the actual model number is would require finding the owners & parts manual that was sold with it.  

However, to get back to the bearings, if the left bearing is getting hot after running a few minutes, it is too tight.

The Atlas babbit bearing lathes that Sears sold and Atlas made left the factory with two 0.010" shim packs, one under each gearing cap bolts.  Each shim pack was made up of five 0.0002" shims laminated together.  So you need to get a roll of 0.002" shim stock and cut out a few shims.  Stack them and clamp between two pieces of wood.  drill the 3/8" bolt holes.  Add one shim under each bolt and torque them down to about 20 to 25 lb-ft.  If too loose, remove one shim and try it again.  If still too tight, and one more shim and check again.  After several minutes run-time. the bearing should get a little warm but not hot.

There is a PDF of the 1936 Power Tools catalog in Downloads.  Full access to Downloads requires Donor status (any level).  Unfortunately, we do not appear to have a copy of the nearest to correct parts list.  All that we have are about one revision too new.  And all have the back gears.  And the only illustrated parts  list that we have is several revisions too new, being the one on the 101.07383.


----------



## great white

Check out page 11:



			http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/51/17749.pdf


----------



## Bigolac

wa5cab said:


> Bigolac,
> 
> It was most probably made in 1936 and was sold  as a wood lathe under the catalog number of 99PM2026.  What's there is the same as on the Craftsman 101.07360.  What the actual model number is would require finding the owners & parts manual that was sold with it.
> 
> However, to get back to the bearings, if the left bearing is getting hot after running a few minutes, it is too tight.
> 
> The Atlas babbit bearing lathes that Sears sold and Atlas made left the factory with two 0.010" shim packs, one under each gearing cap bolts.  Each shim pack was made up of five 0.0002" shims laminated together.  So you need to get a roll of 0.002" shim stock and cut out a few shims.  Stack them and clamp between two pieces of wood.  drill the 3/8" bolt holes.  Add one shim under each bolt and torque them down to about 20 to 25 lb-ft.  If too loose, remove one shim and try it again.  If still too tight, and one more shim and check again.  After several minutes run-time. the bearing should get a little warm but not hot.
> 
> There is a PDF of the 1936 Power Tools catalog in Downloads.  Full access to Downloads requires Donor status (any level).  Unfortunately, we do not appear to have a copy of the nearest to correct parts list.  All that we have are about one revision too new.  And all have the back gears.  And the only illustrated parts  list that we have is several revisions too new, being the one on the 101.07383.


Thank you for the information - I greatly appreciate it.  Currently there are shims under 2 of the four bolts, so I'll mess around with some shim stock and try to get it dialed in better.  The bigger issue seems to come from putting pressure from the tailstock into the headstock (like when I'm trying to secure a piece of wood between the dead center on the headstock and live center on tailstock).  I can really slow down the speed if I crank on it to hard.  Might just be me getting used to the thing (coming from a 8x12 pen making lathe).

Next steps will be to make a mount for the motor - the one I got with this lathe is a Craftsman 1/2hp that weighs about 40 pounds with plenty of torque.

Hard to believe how true this lines up after 80 some odd years of use.  I think with a little care and attention, it will continue to give years of use and joy.


----------



## wa5cab

First off, I forgot yesterday to ask you to try to add at one or more photographs of the lathe made from the "other" side of the lathe.  AFAIK, all of the catalog photos are made of the "other" side.  And all instruction in any books (including the MOLO) assume that the operating side of  the lathe is the "other" side.  Meaning the side that the operator normally stands on.  So that means that the head stock is on the left end and the tail stock is on the right end.  By definition.  So I and probably most if not all of the members will assume that definition when writing about any lathe.

One funny comment that I will make is that you probably have the newest condition early version 10" or 12" bed in existence.  Because with no carriage present, there will be no wear on the bed ways except for a little bit from the tail stock.

You say that there are shims under 2 of the 4 bearing cap bolts.  But you don't say whether both bolts are in one bearing cap or one is in each bearing cap.  Do not run the motor any more until you have the shim packs sorted out.

The maximum difference in thickness of the two shim packs in each bearing is 0.002".

I forgot to mention that you can probably still buy new shim packs from Clausing Industrial.  The part numbers are I think 9-128 for the left ones and 10D-128 for the right ones.  And the part numbers for the bearing caps themselves might be 10D-3 and 10D-4.  I found the Sears instruction sheets for the Timkin bearing version of the lathe, 101.06280.  But nothing for the babbit bearing version.


----------



## Bigolac

wa5cab said:


> First off, I forgot yesterday to ask you to try to add at one or more photographs of the lathe made from the "other" side of the lathe.  AFAIK, all of the catalog photos are made of the "other" side.  And all instruction in any books (including the MOLO) assume that the operating side of  the lathe is the "other" side.  Meaning the side that the operator normally stands on.  So that means that the head stock is on the left end and the tail stock is on the right end.  By definition.  So I and probably most if not all of the members will assume that definition when writing about any lathe.
> 
> One funny comment that I will make is that you probably have the newest condition early version 10" or 12" bed in existence.  Because with no carriage present, there will be no wear on the bed ways except for a little bit from the tail stock.
> 
> You say that there are shims under 2 of the 4 bearing cap bolts.  But you don't say whether both bolts are in one bearing cap or one is in each bearing cap.  Do not run the motor any more until you have the shim packs sorted out.
> 
> The maximum difference in thickness of the two shim packs in each bearing is 0.002".
> 
> I forgot to mention that you can probably still buy new shim packs from Clausing Industrial.  The part numbers are I think 9-128 for the left ones and 10D-128 for the right ones.  And the part numbers for the bearing caps themselves might be 10D-3 and 10D-4.  I found the Sears instruction sheets for the Timkin bearing version of the lathe, 101.06280.  But nothing for the babbit bearing version.


I'll get some pictures of the front side shortly - I forgot to take them.  I'll also get some shots of the motor - looks like it could be of the same vintage.

All four cap bolts are present, but shims are only present at two of the four locations.  I'm with you - I'm not going to attempt running it until I can try to dial in the clearances.


----------



## wa5cab

But are the two shim packs both on the same bearing or one under each cap.  Answer that and also say what the thickness of each of the shim packs is.


----------



## Bigolac

I'm uploading some more pictures - hopefully you can get a better idea of what this is.

I was mistaken regarding the shims - there are three present - please reference the picture for placement and thickness.  They don't appear to be laminated - they're just one piece of brass for each shim.  Pretty obvious the shim on right side is 'aftermarket'....

I also noticed some scoring on the 'in' side of the left bearing - tried to get a pic of that as well.

As far as the motor is concerned, I can't find any other identifiers other than the plate pictured.

Let me know if you want to see anything else.

Thanks - Adam


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  I don't think that I had ever seen the back side of a tailstock.  The front view shows it to probably be the same as that used on the 10" metal working lathes up through the 10D and the 12" up through 101.07382 or 101.07383.  Both bearings violated the rule of having the shims no more that 0.002" different front to back.

And although the text with the photo of the shims does not say which one shows the left and which the right, they do show that the left and right journals are not worn more than about 50%.  Get some original shim packs or at least some 0.002" shim stock and you should be good to go as far as the head stock spindle is concerned.


----------



## KentRigby

wa5cab said:


> Edited with title change 20200627
> 
> In the combined machine database (742 entries to date) there are 180 10" entries, 21 of which show no serial numbers.  There are 113 Craftsman entries, 19 or which show no serial numbers.  Plus we only have 30 10" and 22 12" bearing dates for Timken equipped 10" or 12".
> 
> Anyway, anyone with any Atlas built machine (not just lathes) who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number;  bed length, serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them.  If no bearing dates are available, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).  Also any comments you wish to make about condition, accessories, when and where purchased, price, etc.
> If your machine is a MK2 6", there is a somewhat more detailed questionnaire also in this sticky area.  If you've responded to that questionnaire, no response is needed here.
> 
> Thanks, Robert D.


I have an Atlas 618, I think it's an 18" bed, but don't quote me on that.  I included a picture of the model/serial plates, which are attached in the center of the back of the bed.  It has bronze bushings/bearings.  Not roller bearings.  I purchased it in Ohiopyle, PA for $400.   Condition is good, not great.  The back gears are missing and the ways are pitted.  The tailstock ram was seized, but it did come with a three jaw chuck.


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## wa5cab

Kent,

Your machine is 18" between centers but all Atlas 618's have Timken spindle bearings.  Your machine is a Sears 101.07301 and has bronze sleeve bearings.  The majority of parts are the same as supplied on the 618.  Exceptions are the headstock casting, spindle and sleeve bearings, ball thrust bearing, headstock/belt cover, legs, and a couple of other bushings.  The missing back gears and associated parts are the same as on the 618 except for a couple of other bushings and the carriage rack.  

Plus the countershaft assembly always originally supplied was the second version of the 618 countershaft.  The Atlas 618 only had that version for about two years before changing to the third version.


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## KentRigby

Thank you for all the information.  I was under the impression that a Craftsman 101 was just a rebranded Atlas 618.  Mine does say Atlas on the change gear cover and the change gear table on the inside of the cover also says Atlas I believe.

I would like to find a back gear assembly.  There is one on ebay right now but it is kind of pricey.  Someday I may add a set of change gears, but I don't currently have any need to cut threads.


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## KentRigby

KentRigby said:


> Thank you for all the information.  I was under the impression that a Craftsman 101 was just a rebranded Atlas 618.  Mine does say Atlas on the change gear cover and the change gear table on the inside of the cover also says Atlas I believe.
> 
> I would like to find a back gear assembly.  There is one on ebay right now but it is kind of pricey.  Someday I may add a set of change gears, but I don't currently have any need to cut threads.


I was wrong, the tag on the change gear cover and inside the cover say Craftsman, not Atlas.  My memory was playing tricks on me.


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## mvagusta

A few days ago I picked up a Craftsman 101.07301 6x18 lathe for $40 off of Next Door.  It looks like it has never been repainted and what is left of the paint is the original Craftsman blue.  See the photo of the inside of the gear cover, it is pristine.  Because of the badge on the gear cover I think it is a 1939 model.  The only Craftsman catalog image with that badge is 1938 and this lathe has a back gear, which the 1938 model did not have.  Serial# 4187.  The compound slide is odd ... it is blocky, a lighter shade of blue, and looks like it came off a Mk II.  I don't know why there is a hole drilled in the front of the gear case, either.  I have no history and no record of when it was purchased.


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## wa5cab

Mvagusta,

Best guess as to year of manufacture is 1941.  I agree that the compound slide is from an Atlas MK2 Model  10100 from the second or later year of manufacture, as the early 10100's were still painted gray.  The other things that are missing are the tailstock ram lock handle and maybe the rest of the lock - can't tell from the photos.  And the entire countershaft assembly.  Originally, the countershaft assembly was the same as the version 2 618 assembly.  But the third 618 version, which was made from about 1940 until 1974  will also fit and work fine.

AFAIK, the Craftsman 101.07301 was the same from 1939 until mid-1957.


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## mvagusta

Thanks for the info.  It's also missing the change gears, faceplate, live and dead centers, and a tool post.  Still, the price was right.


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## wa5cab

Yeah, I forgot to mention the rest of the change gears.  Unless you've already done that, it might be worthwhile going back to whomever you got it from and maybe to whomever that individual got the machine from.  Ya never know!  

I would recommend, however, buying a decent quality 0XA quick change tool post kit, plus at least three additional Turning & Facing holders.  Over the years, I have ended up with 7 0r 8.  But 2 is the bare minimum.  Otherwise you aren't much better off time wise than with a Lantern Style.


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## Grader Johnny

10f v54 down here in New Zealand am unsure on dates was missing some change gear bushings and sleeves but managed to make some up.


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## wa5cab

My best guess as to date of manufacture is mid 1942.  Only thing obviously missing are all of the belt and gear covers.

Otherwise, aside from the paint on the right leg, it looks pretty good for the age.


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## Grader Johnny

wa5cab said:


> My best guess as to date of manufacture is mid 1942.  Only thing obviously missing are all of the belt and gear covers.
> 
> Otherwise, aside from the paint on the right leg, it looks pretty good for the age.


Thanks Wa5cab. Seems in good age to me and as for the covers from what I have found it’s all there as it’s a vertical countershaft? I could be wrong


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## wa5cab

You may be correct on the belt and gear covers - the lighting in the first photo is not too good on the left end.  

And I deleted the note that I had pasted in about the bearing dates as there are none on the babbit bearings.  Habits are sometimes hard to break!


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## Grader Johnny

Sorry for the bad photo here’s another


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## wa5cab

OK, in this photo, I can see the cover over the change gears on the left end of the headstock and over the back gears.  And there does not appear to have ever been a motor belt cover on the vertical countershaft 10".


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## modx

Here is my Craftsman 12 x 36 

model 101.07402
serial 1580S


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## OCJohn

This 12x36 followed me home a couple days ago...

Model# 101.28910
Serial# 107208

Lathes UK suggests it's a post 1967 model because it's got a power crossfeed lever (rather than button) control. Is there a serial number lookup somewhere that can help me get closer on the date?


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## buckshot

Greeting folks, 
  I am having problems trying to find out how to take the headstock apart to change belts on a recently acquire  Atlas 12 inch Pedestal Lathe mod # 3996 and the serial # 105457 with a bed length of about 45 from the face of the chuck to the end of the bed. Wondering if there is a way to check out when the lathe was manufactured by serial member? Any help would be greatly appreciated..... 
Have fun, 
buckshot


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## Grinderman

*I’ve been using the green link type belts from horror fright for years now with no issues. Much easier than taking the lathe apart.*


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## buckshot

Grinderman, 
  Thank you for your help....I shy away from almost everything from the chisese store......But in this case coming from you and your positive experience I think I will try their link best......Your right about it being much easier...
Have fun, 
buckshot


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## Grinderman

I also use them on my drill press and table saw for years with no issues. Some say it will wear your pulleys but I have not seen this at all, although I don’t use the machines every day, just hobby use.


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## OCJohn

Grinderman said:


> I also use them on my drill press and table saw for years with no issues. Some say it will wear your pulleys but I have not seen this at all, although I don’t use the machines every day, just hobby use.


They're on all my machines too. Love them. Much smoother than standard belts.


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## wa5cab

OCJohn,

Lathe appears to be missing handle/knob from right hand QCGB selector and it's hard to tell whether end of the selector is damaged or not.  Clausing might still have parts in stock.  You now have access to Downloads and I presume have downloaded the manual,  However, suggest that you also download the Atlas 3996 manual and parts list as it has been edited and cleaned up far more than the one that actually says 101.28910.

Phone number for Clausing Industrial is 800-323-0972 or 800-535-6553.  If they no longer have a part in stock or on order, they will usually email you a scan or the original drawing,  The drawings were all originally scanned to .TIF which I prefer as I have a .TIF editor and years of experience at using it.  But few today know how to do that so they will usually also convert drawings to .PDF.  If a drawing is not already in Downloads, I request that you forward it to me for clean-up and eventual upload.  Their drawings were all scanned several decades ago and no attempt was made to clean any of them up!


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## OCJohn

@wa5cab – thanks for the info. Yes it’s broken, but I’d like to take a stab at fixing it before I look for a new one. I’ve started a thread about it to ask for brazing advice. Please check it out. Looking for all the experienced advice I can get. 









						Cast iron brazing questions (with photos)
					

Behold the broken gear lever for the QCGB ON my late model Atlas/Craftsman 12. Like to take a shot at fixing it before try finding a replacement. I’ve got a gas welding outfit and a couple different kinds of fluxed brazing rod. I did enough brazing in HS to give me courage. Also I’m cheap. So...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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