# Monarch lathe



## Phils69 (Nov 11, 2012)

I went to look at a monarch lathe today and when he turned it on it made a sound and then would not do anything. The fuses were good so the guy said he wasn't sure but it may be the contacts? Think it would be worth picking this up and see if I can fix it? Probaly could get it for $800 since it does not work. Comes with 3 and 4 jaw chuck along with a collet head and steady rest.


http://greensboro.craigslist.org/tls/3376029241.html


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## Tony Wells (Nov 11, 2012)

For $800 I'd do it in a heartbeat. Should be fixable, or parted out at a nice profit. I would lean heavily towards the fixing though.


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## Cal Haines (Nov 11, 2012)

Phils69 said:


> I went to look at a monarch lathe today and when he turned it on it made a sound and then would not do anything. The fuses were good so the guy said he wasn't sure but it may be the contacts? Think it would be worth picking this up and see if I can fix it? Probaly could get it for $800 since it does not work. Comes with 3 and 4 jaw chuck along with a collet head and steady rest.
> 
> 
> http://greensboro.craigslist.org/tls/3376029241.html



What kind of sound did it make?

If you can, get me the serial number and build date from the plate on the front, under the tailstock.

If you can get her for anything under $1500, don't even blink.  I can help you get the old girl going, no sweat.

_Cal_


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## Phils69 (Nov 11, 2012)

Thanks guys. The guy that showed it to me is selling it for his 90 year old neighbor and I trust that he is telling the truth. He said he ran everything and it all worked but the only issue was that it would run slow in reverse for some reason. What ever happened I'd say it is definetly electrical. When the power on switch was pushed it have a sound like it was coming on then it just went silent. I emailed the guy to send me the serial/model # off of it when he gets a chance. He said it was a 1948 model and looking online it looks like a 10ee? He said to another guy there that he would hopefully get 1k for it not since it would not work. I'm great mechanically but not so much on the electrical side. Can it be retrofitted with a modern motor and drive without too much issue?


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## DMS (Nov 11, 2012)

If you can spin the chuck, I would not hesitate. It's possible one of the safety interlocks is tripping, or the guy just doesn't know how the machine works if it isn't his. At 2k, it's a deal, even if it needs some work. I paid about 4k for mine. They guy that I had move it also sells used machines... he said he could have sold it for 6... Of course, I am in California, and these are seemingly rare out here. I have seen machines on E-bay going to $3500 that look like they just got pulled out of the bay.

I have heard of people swapping out the DC drives for VFDs, a bit of work, but doable. If you can get the original drive going though, you will be impressed. The engineers who designed these things knew what they were doing.

DMS


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## Cal Haines (Nov 11, 2012)

Phils69 said:


> Thanks guys. The guy that showed it to me is selling it for his 90 year old neighbor and I trust that he is telling the truth. He said he ran everything and it all worked but the only issue was that it would run slow in reverse for some reason. What ever happened I'd say it is definetly electrical. When the power on switch was pushed it have a sound like it was coming on then it just went silent. I emailed the guy to send me the serial/model # off of it when he gets a chance. He said it was a 1948 model and looking online it looks like a 10ee? He said to another guy there that he would hopefully get 1k for it not since it would not work. I'm great mechanically but not so much on the electrical side. Can it be retrofitted with a modern motor and drive without too much issue?


Yes, it's 10EE.  We call that model a "round-dial" because of the shape of the quick change gearbox dial.  I doubt very much that its a 1948 model; very few were made in 1948 and I've not seen one with brass plates.  My guess it 1942ish.

Very few "modern" drives can rival the power and performance of the motor/generator (MG) drive in that machine and none approach its durability.  The common retrofit of an AC motor and VFD is very poor replacement, in my humble opinion.  Don't let your fear of things electrical keep you from having one of the best tool room lathes ever built or to do something silly once you have it.  I've got your back on this.

_Cal_


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## Tony Wells (Nov 11, 2012)

I'll definitely second Cal on that. Get it and get it back to factory running. Those are some very, very nice machines. If I had a chance at that one, I wouldn't think twice about it, with restoration in mind. As much as I respect all the guys that switch out to VFD units, there are places they don't belong, and this is one of them. I've been using as-built machines all along, which includes a few CNC with variable speed of course, but never really had any problem with the speed selection the engineers put on the machines. You won't be disappointed with the system Monarch designed.


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## OakRidgeGuy (Nov 11, 2012)

Good find! When I can afford it, I am going to get me one of those. I would also like to have a Hardinge as well!


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## Phils69 (Nov 11, 2012)

All right, I'm going to hold you guys to it to help me get this running. I just called and he said the 1k was just for the lathe and not the tooling. He has to ok it with the owner but we came to a tentative agreement on 1300. Pending my friends trailer availability and weather I'll pick it up this Saturday.


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## jgedde (Nov 11, 2012)

It could be the smaller of the three power tubes (two very large tubes, and one smaller one).  That small one regulates the series field winding on the motor.  If the field has current, the start relay stays pulled in when you press the start button.  The fact that you heard something means the forward/reverse lever interlock is working as it should.  The other interlock is the gearbox lock which is energized by the same tube.  So likely you'll be unable to change the gearbox settings until you get a field current going.

From what I've seen fixing our Monarchs at work, it's usually the small gas filled triode that goes bad, not the two big tubes.  Those big guys are pricey ($1400 each)!!!  The small tube is available from Monarch directly and cost $488 each (I just ordered three for work last week - including spares).  They can be gotten for less online if you look around.

Unlike old TV and radio tubes, the power tubes glow blue when they're working right.  This was the sign of a bad tube in the old TV/radio days, but these tubes are good if they glow like that.  

Also, there is a 3A fuse inside (in the tube tray) that is for the field circuit.  If this fuse is blown, the start relay when click in when pressed, but drop back out again when released.  You'll know the start relay is engaged when the light on the start button turns off and stays off.

In your case, your lathe is an earlier model that has extra tubes for rectifiers instead of silicon diodes like the ones we have (1967 vintage).  The tubes your lathe has for this function are are just regular radio/TV tubes and can be bought as NOS (figure on no more than $20-$30 each).

I say buy the old girl.  I'm well versed in the circuitry inside and can advise you how to fix it.  It does pay to VERY cautious.  600+ VDC is inside....

Your other option is just to loose all of the old tube speed controls and retrofit it for VFD.  There's tons of info online about doing this.  But, I'm nostalgic and like to keep the old tube circuits going...

When you look inside for the first time, the maze of wires and relays will make you think twice about repairing it, but it's really not that bad...

I love the Monarch 10EE and wish I had one myself.  I'm still mopping up drool from DMS's score a week or so ago.  Until I score one, I'll just have to machine vicariously through you lucky guys that have your own.

John


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## Phils69 (Nov 11, 2012)

Cal, the reason I said a vfd is it needs to be run on 3 phase. Im a newbie at this phase converting stuff. Are you saying that I will need a rotary phase converter then?


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## Phils69 (Nov 11, 2012)

Thanks for the info and offer of assistance John. I'm sure I'll be in contact with you quite a bit on this adventure. So to supply the power I'll need a rotary converter?


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## Cal Haines (Nov 11, 2012)

John,

This is a late model round-dial 10EE.  They were only available with motor/generator (MG) drives.  Tube drive machines were not introduced until several years after the last round-dial was built.

Phil,
$1300 for that lathe with the tooling mentioned is a great deal!  Go give him the money now!!!:thumbsup:
  Worry about picking it up later.  (We can talk about that another time.)

A VFD could be used to run the motor/generator, but that's overkill.  We can do it for less money.  Tearing out a working MG set and replacing it with an AC motor and VFD is just nuts.  Yes the MG is 3-phase, but that's no biggie. Get the machine, lets see what you've got and we'll go from there.  For all we know, some idiot has already "upgraded" it to an AC motor and VFD--which would be like "upgrading" your classic 60's muscle car by dropping in the engine from a KIA (it's computer controlled an has fuel injection, so it must be better right?  WRONG!)

_Cal_


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## Phils69 (Nov 11, 2012)

I can't make it there until next Saturday as our work schedules won't allow it. He seemed like a stand up guy though so hopefully he will hold it for me. I wish I had taken a closer look at it but since there was a shop full of other goodies, see my other thread, and it would not come on I kind of wrote it off. You are right it could already be butchered up drive wise. It was running off a rotary phase converter so maybe it's still fairly original. Maybe I should offer to go ahead and mail him a check for it to be sure he will hold it for me. Could you pm me your email address and I'll send you some pics of what the electrical looks like when I pick it up?

Thanks,

Phil


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