# new Burke #4



## jererp (Nov 23, 2013)

I picked up a Burke #4 mill last weekend.  It came with an original vise (I think), and several dozen different sized milling cutters, and a mandrel.  The milling cutters have three different sized I.D.'s, and the mandrel only fits the smallest. So, I'm going to be looking for a 1" mandrel, since most of my cutters are that size I.D. 
Also included were several B&S #9 end mills with a tang.  Can I use these in my spindle? I know there is no driver in the spindle, and no tapped hole in the end of the end mills for the draw bar.
And I am including a picture from the Craigslist posting, because I know some of you think if there's no pictures, it didn't happen!


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## David (Nov 23, 2013)

That's a nice looking mill!  I can't help with specifics on mill but there are others who should be able to assist.

David


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## stevecmo (Nov 23, 2013)

Sorry, I can't help with your questions either.  Just wanted to say that looks like a great machine!


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## itsme_Bernie (Nov 24, 2013)

Congrats man!  Burke #4 is a lovely machine.  If it is the original motor, it's a beast!  

Spindle is a Brown and Sharpe #9 from what I know.  You can get new collets or endmill holders from Jeff at ToolsForCheap, his ebay or direct from his site.  

I am about to find out, in my own experience, about using the #9 tanged tooling in a Rusnok milling head and also a horizontal mill similar size to yours (Sheldon 0), so I can let you know how that goes.  Write with any specific questions you have and I will be happy to help if I can.

Many of the guys here, who have used #9 tooling told me that there is no problem with holding, even without a drawbar.  I think the drawbar is really to open and close the collet, more than hold it.  It is a pretty shallow taper, with a lot of contact surface area. 

I was concerned about big milling cutters, or endmills that might pull out under those cutting forces, but I think I am not trusting the geometry and physics.
Case in point- I found a Precision Universal Boring and Facing head, with an original, incorporated Brown and Sharpe #9 tanged shank.  This is a LARGE, 3-1/2 by 4 inch, heavy, round boring head.  Many pounds.  My point is, there are no dings from falling out if a spinning machine.  This is a company known for making serious, quality machine tools at the height of US industrial production.  Who am I to question?  


Bernie


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## jererp (Nov 24, 2013)

I don't think the motor is original....no markings on the motor at all, just the number 25 stamped on the casing...I'm guessing it is around 3/4 HP based on the size.  And it's 3 phase. I've seen some pictures online with what looks like a gear reduction unit. Is this what was original equipment?  

One of my first projects will be to make a chart showing RPM for each pulley position on the spindle, and then another for the feed/rev on the feed pulley positions.  I'll need this to calculate feed/tooth.

I've never had any experience with B& S tapers, only Morse tapers, and then only for drilling.  With the MT's, I think the tang is only there to act as a driver in case you didn't get the taper completely seated. After starting to drill, the cutting force seats the taper. I think as long as you rap the tool with a soft faced hammer to lock the taper, you'll be OK.  But experience is the true test.


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## itsme_Bernie (Nov 24, 2013)

Yes- the original motor is geared, and I can't remember if it is also two speed.  Wiring is a monster if it gets undone.  

I talk the talk, but I am still considering cutting the tang off and tapping it out.  But this is a LARGE boring head.  


Bernie


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## woodtickgreg (Nov 24, 2013)

I picked up the same mill last summer, mine is very original including the stock factory motor with gear reduction. Mine also came with a vertical milling attachment. I have not used mine for horizontal milling yet although it did come with some cool horizontal quick release arbors or mandrels or whatever you want to call them. I have been using the vertical attachment quite a bit and the mill is fun to use. I have all the parts for mine to connect the table feed but I want to try and adapt an electric feed to the table for infinite speeds and rapid traverse. I do not know what the taper is in the horizontal spindle. I can tell you that the output shaft rpm on the motor gear box is like 212rpm and a 1/2hp 110v motor. I think I have a thread on it here. If I can help with pics or ?


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## jererp (Nov 25, 2013)

I've looked at the thread on your mill.  It is definitely nicer that what I have, and better equipped. 

So if the original motor output with the gearbox is 212 rpm, then mine with a 1750 rpm motor may be over the top.  Right now I have it hooked up to the vfd for my lathe, so I can crank it down some on the speed. I haven't tried to do any cuts yet. My DW just had knee surgery, so it is keeping me away from the workshop until she is getting around a little better on her own.

I also want to make sure I understand what the sf/m is at the cutting point, and also the feed/tooth.

It came with the feed mechanism disabled, and a 26v motor driving the feed screw, set up for some production application, using micro switches to stop the feed.  There was no way to vary the speed of the motor, so I removed it and went back to the mechanical feed.  I think if I have a vfd on the spindle, I will be safer to keep the mechanical feed.

Has anyone purchased tooling/parts from DCMorrison? They tell me they have arbors to fit the Burke in stock for around $200...not cheap, but around the same price as the only other source I have found online...


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## woodtickgreg (Nov 25, 2013)

Can you see the name brand of the arbors in my post? They are pretty slick, they are quick change, once the main holder is mounted in the machine you just twist the collar to unlock and remove them and then insert a different shaft assy with a different cutter. Pretty cool. The shafts are different diameters as well. I have not used them yet as most of my work has involved end mills. For the vertical attachment I sometimes wish it went a little faster for the end mill speed. But then again I don't know how the bushings in the attachment would like that, they get pretty warm as it is with extended use. I would think that if you are running a vfd to vary the motor speed you should be fine, and you might never have to change the pulley speeds. The other reason why I thought about fitting the table feed with an electric is to keep all the power to the cutter and not loose any to table feed. Right now I'm just turning handles and having fun.


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## jererp (Nov 25, 2013)

That's what this is all about....turning handles and having fun!  

I looked back through your thread again...my serial number is 6-437-42 (month-machine # built that month-year), so our machines were built only a month apart.

I don't have the vertical milling adapter, so all my milling will be horizontal. It looks like you have a dead center to support the arbor in your machine.  
Mine looks like this.


I had a good number of cutters for a 1" dia arbor included in the purchase, but no arbor.


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## woodtickgreg (Nov 25, 2013)

Yes, mine does have a dead center. Where is petersburg Michigan? I am a northern suburb of Detroit. I am getting ready to go to Ny, Ny. for thanksgiving, but I can get you pics if you need any when I return if it might help you. Thanks for that info on the serial number, I didn't know how that worked.
Greg


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## jererp (Nov 26, 2013)

I live about 7 mi south of Cabela's in Dundee. A fellow I used to work with lives in Clinton Township, so I know it's a bit of a haul from me. 

 I got a reply back from D C Morrison, but not sure what the support end looks like on the standard arbor. I may need to change out the bushing in the overarm to a center.  I'm waiting to hear back from them.

Have a good Thanksgiving!

We are going to my son's for Thanksgiving dinner.  With my wife hobbling around on her knee after surgery, we got the kids to cook. Probably the first time in 25 years or more she hasn't done Thanksgiving dinner.

Jerry


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## ecdez (Nov 29, 2013)

Anyone know what oil to use in the original geared motor.  I've been running mine since I got it and the PO said he filled it up but I'd rather top it off to be sure.


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## woodtickgreg (Nov 29, 2013)

ecdez said:


> Anyone know what oil to use in the original geared motor.  I've been running mine since I got it and the PO said he filled it up but I'd rather top it off to be sure.


I'm in NY, NY. right now, but when I get home I'll check my manual because I'm old and can't remember, LOL.


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