# "first Purchase" Items?



## BellyUpFish (Oct 6, 2015)

Ok guys, I've been learning on an old Harbor Freight 3in1 lathe/mill.

I am fairly certain I'm going to be upgrading to a G0602 and a G0704 soon.  However, I just recently sold my house in anticipation of building so all my stuff is in storage, so I figured I'd start gathering tooling for the next lathe.

My current setup was basically "everything included" deal, I didn't have to pick up anything.

I'm looking at starting with a QCTP and a Diamond Tool Holder to get the parts started.

Anyone have any suggestions on what I should look at purchasing?


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 6, 2015)

I would start out with some reference material, Machinerys' Hand Book and such.

"Billy G"


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## BellyUpFish (Oct 6, 2015)

Bill Gruby said:


> I would start out with some reference material, Machinerys' Hand Book and such.
> 
> "Billy G"



Excellent suggestion. Just downloaded it.


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## Cobra (Oct 6, 2015)

Rather than rushing out to but tooling that "everyone" says is needed, take a look at your first project and decide what you need to complete that project.
As  you do each project, you will identify more needs that YOU have for the work you do and gradually build the tooling that fits your needs.


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 6, 2015)

Cobra has an extremely valid point. All to many times the neophyte will ask what is needed now. That question has no answer till we know what you wish to do and what you already have. Everyone will tell you this or that is needed but  at the time, is it really needed. When you can do with the bare necessities then and only then is it time to make things easier.

 "Billy G"


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## brav65 (Oct 6, 2015)

I ignored all sane advice and bought every cool looking tool I have seen. I believe I now have a serious tool addiction but I just can't stop. I have fallen in love with Starrett levels and now have a 6", 8", 2-12", and and 18" machinist levels.


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## BellyUpFish (Oct 6, 2015)

I may have worded my post incorrectly..

I'm not looking for the coolest tooling, I've just never geared up a lathe from the ground up.

I've been using my current lathe for almost a year.. 

Just gearing up for a new lathe is unfamiliar territory.  This lathe showed up with all the tooling with it.

I typically do small time shop items, a little bit of gun smithing work, fixing the kids scooters, etc..


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## BellyUpFish (Oct 6, 2015)

Couple random projects..

Ak-47 grip screw..




Another grip screw and hinge pin out of brass..




GoPro mount 




Kinda hard to tell, but turned this barrel down to fit the random components on it.  It's going to be a desk lamp. LOL


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## British Steel (Oct 6, 2015)

SO, what have you found essential on the lathe you already have? Same again, in the right sizes for the new one?


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## mzayd3 (Oct 7, 2015)

It seems as though this new G0602 comes pretty well stocked with a 3 jaw, 4 jaw, follow rest, steady rest, 4 way tool post.  You already seem to have a decent ability with your 3 in 1 from what projects you posted.  I think you may just want to wait for it to arrive...


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## BellyUpFish (Oct 7, 2015)

I think I might do that.  I've almost talked myself out of the G0602 and into a G4003G.......


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Wreck™Wreck (Oct 7, 2015)

What is a "Diamond tool holder" if you don't mind the stupid question?


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## BellyUpFish (Oct 7, 2015)

Wreck" data-source="post: 334273"
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WreckWreck said:



			What is a "Diamond tool holder" if you don't mind the stupid question?
		
Click to expand...


It's a completely awesome tool holder.. 

http://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=18

Basically, the way a traditional tool holder holders the tool is not at the optimum angle, the diamond tool holder holds the tool at a tangential angle, work smarter not harder theory.

Diamond Holder vs standard tool holder.


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## Andy Rafferty (Oct 7, 2015)

Then I'd have to relearn how to grind a bit.


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## BellyUpFish (Oct 7, 2015)

You can get a jig.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Oct 7, 2015)

Not to be a smart ass but exactly how is this different? The top rake appears to be the same yet I suspect that holding the tool in such a way would drive the tool right out of the clamp on holder. If one were going to grind a HSS tool anyway then why not just use the same geometry without buying a dodgy looking tool holder.


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## Andre (Oct 7, 2015)

Wreck™Wreck said:


> Not to be a smart ass but exactly how is this different? The top rake appears to be the same yet I suspect that holding the tool in such a way would drive the tool right out of the clamp on holder. If one were going to grind a HSS tool anyway then why not just use the same geometry without buying a dodgy looking tool holder.



I've made round "Diamond" tool holders in the past. Never had a toolbit slip, it's surprising how well a 10/32 screw can clamp. 

The geometry is the same as a normal RH tool, however these are dirt simple to sharpen! You don't always need a jig, some good lighting and practice and you should be good


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## BellyUpFish (Oct 7, 2015)

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WreckWreck said:



			Not to be a smart ass but exactly how is this different? The top rake appears to be the same yet I suspect that holding the tool in such a way would drive the tool right out of the clamp on holder. If one were going to grind a HSS tool anyway then why not just use the same geometry without buying a dodgy looking tool holder.
		
Click to expand...


I am far too much of a newb to this hobby to explain to you how it works and/or why, but I can tell you, you're wrong about driving the tool out of the holder.

Google is your friend here.  I've never read anything negative about them.  I also like the idea behind grinding one surface, rather than multi-surfaces.

I know this is utter blasphemy here and I'll throw on my flame suit for this comment but I have zero inclination to learn how to grind HSS bits "properly."

With modern inserts and tool holders such as a tangential holder, there is no (in my opinion) reason for me to learn to grind HSS in any other manner beyond "clamp it in the jig" as failing that, I'll be using inserts anyway.

Someone much more experienced than I:


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## coolidge (Oct 8, 2015)

I'd hold off buying any tooling, tool holders, or QCTP for the lathe until you make up your mind on which lathe. As for chucks the G4003G has an oddball size D1-5 spindle. There's a crap load of lathes from smaller than the G4003G up through much larger heavier 14x40 lathes that use a D1-4 spindle. The 16x40's are typically D1-6. Relatively few lathes use the D1-5. Having owned a G4003G for a couple of years if I had it to do over I'd buy a larger lathe and nothing from CHINA. Make no mistake the G4003G is a CHINA lathe with the typical CHINA quality issues. Hey you get what you pay for and its not fair comparing it to a lathe costing twice or three times the price just know that you are buying CHINA.


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## BellyUpFish (Oct 8, 2015)

coolidge said:


> I'd hold off buying any tooling, tool holders, or QCTP for the lathe until you make up your mind on which lathe. As for chucks the G4003G has an oddball size D1-5 spindle. There's a crap load of lathes from smaller than the G4003G up through much larger heavier 14x40 lathes that use a D1-4 spindle. The 16x40's are typically D1-6. Relatively few lathes use the D1-5. Having owned a G4003G for a couple of years if I had it to do over I'd buy a larger lathe and nothing from CHINA. Make no mistake the G4003G is a CHINA lathe with the typical CHINA quality issues. Hey you get what you pay for and its not fair comparing it to a lathe costing twice or three times the price just know that you are buying CHINA.




You're right, as much as I can't decide what to buy, I don't think I'll be buying any tooling.  I was just going to attempt to use the down time with no lathe to gear up for the next lathe. Best to decide what that will be first.

I'd love to have an old USA lathe, but I think my level of knowledge (or lack of)would get me in trouble buying a used lathe, plus this area of the country has little to offer unlike some of the more production oriented areas.  That combined with my current needs, I'm wondering if a 12x36 honestly isn't too big for me. 

I'm sure, especially right now, the G0602 would probably be plenty of lathe, while I can afford the G4003G, it's kinda more than I really want to spend, I'm just a hobbyist who likes to DIY as much as I can, but I'd like to grow into something.

I've got a little time to think about it. Was looking at the PM1127 last night.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Oct 8, 2015)

Andre said:


> I've made round "Diamond" tool holders in the past. Never had a toolbit slip, it's surprising how well a 10/32 screw can clamp.
> 
> The geometry is the same as a normal RH tool, however these are dirt simple to sharpen! You don't always need a jig, some good lighting and practice and you should be good


This must be a finishing tool? I can not see plowing such a tool holder an eighth deep into say a a 304  part and having it live through it.

I rarely use HSS tools, one recurring job that I do is CPVC pipe flanges that I use a hand ground HSS tool for, it works well as do aluminum specific inserts if I have a new one, if they have been used on aluminum in the past they tend to leave a bit of fuzz. A spray bottle with water and a few drops of dish washing soap work well as a lubricant. for these materials.


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## BellyUpFish (Oct 8, 2015)

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WreckWreck said:



			This must be a finishing tool?
		
Click to expand...


No, it isn't. I guess you didn't click on the video?


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## Wreck™Wreck (Oct 8, 2015)

I did just watch the  video, and I am not inclined to use such a tool. This may be because  I run lathes 50 hours per week or am simply jaded and set in my ways over 25 years, your choice.
I would not even consider trying  HSS tools on this weeks job, have already skagged nearly $100.00 worth of inserts so far, I rough with all of the used tools that the other machinists won't use, I did break 3 used Kaiser Thinbit inserts making a dovetail O-Ring groove at 26.188" diameter, I was going way too fast. The Kaiser tools are excellent by the way look into them.

This unfortunately, is what I do for money.


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## mikey (Oct 9, 2015)

BellyUpFish said:


> I know this is utter blasphemy here and I'll throw on my flame suit for this comment but I have zero inclination to learn how to grind HSS bits "properly."
> 
> With modern inserts and tool holders such as a tangential holder, there is no (in my opinion) reason for me to learn to grind HSS in any other manner beyond "clamp it in the jig" as failing that, I'll be using inserts anyway.



I agree that this is a very cool tool and that most guys who post comments on them seem to like them a lot.  Your implication that it works well enough to disincline you to learn to grind a conventional tool has been echoed by many other tangential tool users. I can see why that is - the tool is simple to grind with the provided jig and gets you cutting with little fuss. In the end it is your tool, your lathe, your choice and you shouldn't have to defend it.

With that said, I am sad that you seemed to have closed your mind on the matter of tool grinding. There are advantages there too, you know. The choice is always yours but it should be an informed choice.


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## Andre (Oct 9, 2015)

Try it, you'll be pleasantly surprised.


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## BellyUpFish (Oct 10, 2015)

Wreck" data-source="post: 334620"
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WreckWreck said:



			I did just watch the  video, and I am not inclined to use such a tool. This may be because  I run lathes 50 hours per week or am simply jaded and set in my ways over 25 years, your choice.


The Kaiser tools are excellent by the way look into them.
		
Click to expand...


With 25 years under your belt, I'd imagine I wouldn't be inclined to go too far outside of what I already know either. Can't really blame you.

I'm at < a year of lathe time, so I'm still learning.



mikey said:


> With that said, I am sad that you seemed to have closed your mind on the matter of tool grinding. There are advantages there too, you know. The choice is always yours but it should be an informed choice.



Well, I haven't completed closed my mind to it, I've actually tried it.

I guess just with the mix of a tangential tool holder and modern inserts, I don't see the need, but if it ever arose, I'd be willing to give it more effort.



Andre said:


> Try it, you'll be pleasantly surprised.



A tangential tool holder or grinding HSS?


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## Andre (Oct 10, 2015)

BellyUpFish said:


> With 25 years under your belt, I'd imagine I wouldn't be inclined to go too far outside of what I already know either. Can't really blame you.
> 
> I'm at < a year of lathe time, so I'm still learning.
> 
> ...


Tangential tool holder, although my post was inended to be a reply to Wreck Wreck. Sorry I forgot to quote.


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## mikey (Oct 10, 2015)

BellyUpFish said:


> Well, I haven't completed closed my mind to it, I've actually tried it. I guess just with the mix of a tangential tool holder and modern inserts, I don't see the need, but if it ever arose, I'd be willing to give it more effort.



I wasn't trying to back you into a corner - I hope I didn't give you that impression. I just wanted to suggest that you not close your mind off to HSS tool grinding - it is, after all, the option many experienced hobby machinists have chosen and there are some very good reasons this is so.

Good luck with this, and maybe you can post a review on your tangential tool experience when you get up and running. I would be interested.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Oct 10, 2015)

Andre said:


> Tangential tool holder, although my post was inended to be a reply to Wreck Wreck. Sorry I forgot to quote.


Never implied that it didn't work merely questioned the ability of the clamping arrangement on the pictured holder.


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## BellyUpFish (Oct 10, 2015)

mikey said:


> I hope I didn't give you that impression.



Not at all.


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## kevin (Oct 12, 2015)

Getting back to the original question: Some while ago in another forum a similar question came up with regard to mills. Based on my own experience, as well as feedback from others, I put together a list of common machining items for a machinist who is just starting to tool up. Although the list was compiled with reference to a mill, much of it could also be applied to a lathe. You can take a look at the list at the link below. 

https://sites.google.com/site/lagadoacademy/machining---lathes-mills-etc/advice-from-a-newbie

One more note on the list: I included some typical pricing just to give an idea of what everything would cost, but of course individual costs will vary greatly depending upon the quality of the tools you buy, whether you buy new or used, etc.  A final suggestion: I maintain a "wish list" of tools of need or want to buy, but don't necessarily need immediately. I keep an eye out for items on sale, on craigslist, ebay, etc., flea markets, garage sales, and what have you, and if I see an item on my list I try to make a bargain purchase.  When making an online purchase, I try to bundle several items on my wish list to save on shipping charges.

Related to your question: If you are doing home machining, you are going to need raw metal. In 2013 I need a cost comparison of various metal suppliers - prices have changed, but the list is still worth looking at:

https://sites.google.com/site/lagadoacademy/machining---lathes-mills-etc/review---metal-prices

Links to metals and tool suppliers can be found here: https://sites.google.com/site/lagadoacademy/useful-links


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