# Pm-1228vf-lb



## MSD0

Does anyone have any experience with the PM-1228VF-LB? I think it's a new model with 12" swing and 28" between centers, D1-4 camlock spindle mount with 1.5" bore, 2 HP brushless motor, and quick change gear box for $2799. The only thing I'm not crazy about is the touch pad speed control.


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## darkzero

Interesting. I've never even heard of that model yet. Sounds like it's a new offering so I doubt anyone here owns one yet.


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## MSD0

I don't think it's on the website. Matt suggested the 12x28 as an alternative to the 11x27 because I plan on using a collet chuck (I'm assuming because of the d1-4 camlock mount)


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## dlhoulton

Same here, Matt sent me photos of that one (1228VF-LB) when I was first shopping. I decided on the PM1127 instead. For me I just didn't like the "push button" variable speed change. Also the lowest speed was around 100 rpm in the specs he sent. The good was that it did have a powerful 2 Hp brushless motor that operated on 120 volt. Mater of fact just about everything on the 1228 was good. Just didn't like the push buttons! Matt did say that the new 1228's would arrive before the next shipment of 1127's would. Did I mention I just couldn't get over those push bottons!!


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## Franko

Does the 1228 have a 1.5" spindle bore like the 1127?

(I don't like push button switches, either.)

Did Matt mention when the 1127 will get here?


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## MSD0

dlhoulton said:


> Same here, Matt sent me photos of that one (1228VF-LB) when I was first shopping. I decided on the PM1127 instead. For me I just didn't like the "push button" variable speed change. Also the lowest speed was around 100 rpm in the specs he sent. The good was that it did have a powerful 2 Hp brushless motor that operated on 120 volt. Mater of fact just about everything on the 1228 was good. Just didn't like the push buttons! Matt did say that the new 1228's would arrive before the next shipment of 1127's would. Did I mention I just couldn't get over those push bottons!!





dlhoulton said:


> Same here, Matt sent me photos of that one (1228VF-LB) when I was first shopping. I decided on the PM1127 instead. For me I just didn't like the "push button" variable speed change. Also the lowest speed was around 100 rpm in the specs he sent. The good was that it did have a powerful 2 Hp brushless motor that operated on 120 volt. Mater of fact just about everything on the 1228 was good. Just didn't like the push buttons! Matt did say that the new 1228's would arrive before the next shipment of 1127's would. Did I mention I just couldn't get over those push bottons!!


The push buttons are the only thing holding me back as well. Is there an advantage to having a D1-4 camlock  mount if I use a collet chuck? I plan on using collets for most of my work, so probably won't be swapping chucks very often.


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## MSD0

Franko said:


> Does the 1228 have a 1.5" spindle bore like the 1127?
> 
> (I don't like push button switches, either.)
> 
> Did Matt mention when the 1127 will get here?


The 12x28 has the same 1.5" bore as the 11x27. He said the 11x27's were about 6 weeks out when I spoke with him on 4/30/15.


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## Franko

Thanks, MSDO. I guess if I'd actually read the title of this item I would have known it was a large bore. 

Ugh. 5 more weeks. When I called them a few weeks ago, they kinda left the impression that it would arrive a little ahead of schedule. Ten weeks from when I ordered it is next Friday.

What's the price tag on the 1228?

I'd also like to know if the D1-4 camlock is a better arrangement than the mount on the 1127. I don't plan on using collets.


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## dlhoulton

I ordered my lathe (PM1127VF-LB) back on 3/5/15, my invoice stated that the lathes were 8 - 10 weeks out. 10 weeks was last week. Yes the spec. sheet said that the PM1228 had the same 1.5 bore.


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## wrmiller

Guess I'm one of the few who prefers digital speed control. 

That lathe looks very similar to the one that DroPros is selling. Haven't compared specs though.


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## MSD0

Franko said:


> What's the price tag on the 1228?


$2799 according to the quote I got a few weeks ago.


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## MSD0

wrmiller19 said:


> Guess I'm one of the few who prefers digital speed control.
> 
> That lathe looks very similar to the one that DroPros is selling. Haven't compared specs though.


They look really close, except the DroPros (Sieg SC8) has a 1" spindle bore.


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## tmarks11

MSD0 said:


> The push buttons are the only thing holding me back as well. Is there an advantage to having a D1-4 camlock  mount if I use a collet chuck? I plan on using collets for most of my work, so probably won't be swapping chucks very often.



It is tough to do everything with collets. The workpiece must be within+.002" to -.005 of nominal collet size, and even if you buy a "complete" set of collets, they will be spaced every 1/64" (0.016")... which means you might find your self in between collets with nothing that fits. Not to mention that the max size you can fit in a 5C collet is 1-1/8".

Which is where swapping chucks comes in.  And D1-4 cam lock is SO convenient... takes about 40 seconds to swap chucks.

btw, priced a set of 5C collets at 1/64"  spacing?  $500 for the cheap Chinese versions... $1600 for the good Lyndex ones.



Franko said:


> I'd also like to know if the D1-4 camlock is a better arrangement than the mount on the 1127.



I definitely would jump on the lathe with a cam lock mount vs. direct bolt on.  Way more convenient, and easier to find after market chucks.


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## GA Gyro

Please do not quote me on this...

However I 'think' I remember reading the chuck mount on the 1127 is kinda unique... which means finding after-market chuck mounts may be a bit tricky.  
I would research this if it were me... given this new 1228 is pretty much a slightly big brother to the 1127.

BTW:  Matt, nice looking machine!


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## wrmiller

Or...you could buy a plain back chuck and make your own mounting plate with your new lathe. Just a suggestion.


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## tmarks11

wrmiller19 said:


> Or...you could buy a plain back chuck and make your own mounting plate with your new lathe. Just a suggestion.


So Bill, you are saying that you don't prefer a cam lock mount chuck over a direct bolt chuck? 

Yes, you can make any chuck fit a direct bolt mount with a customer back plate, but it still means you are loosening and tightening bolts (which are not conveniently accessible) every time you swap chucks... which means that you will find excuses not to swap chucks when you should because it takes too long.

Don't get me wrong, the 1127 is a great machine.  But I personally would pay to size up to a machine with a cam lock chuck.



dlhoulton said:


> Same here, Matt sent me photos of that one (1228VF-LB) when I was first shopping.



Don't hold back on us... please, post a picture.  This is the first time I have heard of the 1228 lathe. Sounds like a winner!



dlhoulton said:


> Did I mention I just couldn't get over those push bottons!!



If it has a commercial DC motor controller, maybe you can add a rheostat to it for speed control instead of the push buttons.

I agree with you on push buttons... want to change the speed by 400 rpm? 10 rpm + 10 rpm + 10 rpm... 40 pushes later....

Did you tell Matt you weren't crazy about the buttons?


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## Franko

I don't think the PM1127 chuck is exactly a bolt on. I don't know what it is. This is from the manual.


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## tmarks11

That is exactly what a bolt on chuck is.


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## MSD0

Does anyone know of a collet closer that can be used with either the 11x27 or 12x28?


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## Franko

Tim, you don't have to remove the bolts on a bolt on chuck?


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## darkzero

I agree with Tim, that's a bolt on chuck in my book. Anything that requires the removal of a fastener, whether it be a bolt or a nut, to remove the chuck & adapter is bolt on. In the case of the 1127-VF, you have to unscrew nuts from the studs to remove the chuck. On a camlock, you simply turn the cam to release the pins. No removal of fasteners needed.

This type of chuck mounting is common on asian import mini lathes. IIRC there's also another type that is similar where you only have to loosen the nuts or bolts, rotate, & the nuts or bolts will pass through a clearance hole on the spindle. I could be mistaken but I think I've seen it before.

I went through this very same decision years ago. I had purchased a PM1127VF in 2009, not the LB model as it did not exist at that time. The 1127VF (non LB) had a different spindle type, it was DIN55021. Basically the same as it is now for fastening but it had a nose taper on the spindle. The nose taper is better for accuracy/repeatability but made making additional adapters a lot more work. The LB does not have the nose taper so making backplates for it is pretty simple. The spindle type & other factors made me change my mind & get a PM1236 instead as I could not afford the PM1340T (not GT) or the PM1440HD at the time. Very glad I did go with the PM1236 instead.

This PM1228VF-LB looks like it may become a popular model IMO


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## wrmiller

I've had my share of bolt on chucks, thanks. 

40 pushes? I don't think you know how a digital control works. More like 3-4 if you have decent reflexes.


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## mksj

Camlock system is the way to go, this machine is just another variant of the Sieg SC8. Looked at the one at DRO Pros when I  started looking, the bolt on chuck was an instant deal killer.  Also, when you started adding up all the individual add ons for DRO Pro model, it was almost the same price as a PM1236. The PM1228 with the D1-4 is much more preferable, if you are size and space limited.

You might look at this old thread on the SC8: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/sieg-sc8-and-its-spindle-mount.30773/

Not sure what the issue is with the push buttons, other than wearing out more easily then conventional buttons. Usually they have a scroll feature, so press and hold to quickly change the parameter. If you want a lower speed, one could change the motor pulley. I have heard that the DC brushless motors in these models work very well.


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## darkzero

Here's a thread on the 1127vf spindle & adapter (newer type without the nose taper). Very easy to make, with just a lathe & a drill press (mounting holes are not critical) if you don't have a mill.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/proccess-of-making-a-new-chuck-backplate.10924/


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## Franko

tmarks11 said:


> That is exactly what a bolt on chuck is.



I'm still a bit confused on that, Tim. It doesn't look like you remove the bolts on the 1127. The only mention in the manual says loosen the bolts and turn the washers, then pull the chuck off. That implies to me there is some sort of slot or key.

Regarding switches and touch pads. My mill has touch pads and they work great. My worry is that someday they are going to fail. My understanding of touch pads is that they are not just switches. They are connected or integral with a board and relays that are most probably propitiatory. If the day comes that it fails, I'm stuck with someone stocking that specific part.

With mechanical switches, options are relatively low tech for repair and/or upgrade and are widely available.


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## Franko

I just spoke to Nicole at Quality Machine Tools. She informed me that my 1127-VF-LB is out of the factory and on the boat. Could be around 3 weeks until delivery. I'm guessing more like 4 weeks.

She sent me a data sheet on the new 1228 (estimated to arrive about a week before the 1127.

The significant differences I'm seeing are Touch pads, 1/2 more horsepower motor, lead screw clutch, and no cross power feed. 

Less significant is no AXA tool post, tailstock chuck, and live center, which are optional in an upgrade package. 

Dimensions and weight are just about identical. That's significant for me, as I've already begun fabrication of the stand, and it will suffice for either the 1127 or 1228.


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## mksj

Example of a Sieg bolt on chuck. Not something you will find an easy replacement for, reason why the D1-4 version would be much more preferable.
http://www.mini-lathe.com/reviews/Lathes/Sieg_C8/C8.htm


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## MSD0

Franko said:


> I just spoke to Nicole at Quality Machine Tools. She informed me that my 1127-VF-LB is out of the factory and on the boat. Could be around 3 weeks until delivery. I'm guessing more like 4 weeks.
> 
> She sent me a data sheet on the new 1228 (estimated to arrive about a week before the 1127.
> 
> The significant differences I'm seeing are Touch pads, 1/2 more horsepower motor, lead screw clutch, and no cross power feed.
> 
> Less significant is no AXA tool post, tailstock chuck, and live center, which are optional in an upgrade package.
> 
> Dimensions and weight are just about identical. That's significant for me, as I've already begun fabrication of the stand, and it will suffice for either the 1127 or 1228.


I wasn't aware that the 12x28 didn't have power cross feed.


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## Franko

Sorry, I was mistaken. It does. I re-checked the info and sure enough, it is mentioned.


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## Franko

Machine Standard Features and Equipment:

*PM-1228VF-LB Main Features*

D1-4 CAMLOCK SPINDLE MOUNT, with LARGE 1.5” Spindle Bore, Best in class for
universal chuck mounting, and the ability to accept larger diameter work that can pass through the spindle for much easier setup

Large Morse Taper #3 bore in tail stock, to allow for larger accessories and more gripping power for those tough drilling jobs, yet you can just use a reducing sleeve for smaller MT accessories

Power feed on Carriage, and Cross Slide, both left and right, and in and out, for both turning and facing operations with automatic feed. Allows for the best surface finish in all directions.

Variable Spindle Speeds from 50-2000 RPM in 2 Steps to provide more torque at low speeds, and the ability to perfectly match the speed for the job for increased cutting tool life and better surface finishes

2 HP BRUSHLESS DC MOTOR, for better torque, and best reliability during long term use

Rigid Cast Iron Construction, for deeper cuts, and more vibration dampening

Induction Hardened and Precision Ground Bed Ways to resist wear and give a long service life

All gears and shafts in headstock hardened and precision ground for long life and quieter running

High quality electronics used throughout machine

Slip Clutch on feed rod, to help prevent overloading damage of feeds and allow the use of a solid carriage stop for repetitive work

Precision Tapered Roller Bearings used in spindle, for the ultimate in long life, high precision, and best surface finishes

Inch AND Metric thread cutting ability is a standard feature, with many quick change threads for less change gears. 15 different threads or feeds can be cut with one gear setup. Many less gears to change compared to others in this class

NCH PITCH main lead screw, cross feed, tailstock, and compound slide lead screws make it easy to use for the INCH measurement System, yet still has the Metric readings on dials for the ultimate in versatility for any job that may come about

Splash oil bath lubrication in Thread/Feed Gearbox, and Apron, for efficient lubrication, and long life, especially compared to traditional open-non lubricated Thread/Feed Gearbox design, yet simple and reliable, and does not require any filter changes or pump maintenance as with oil pump lubrication systems. Also no risk of losing oil flow to expensive parts as there can be with pump lubricated systems

Longest in class, 3 Year Warranty for added piece of mind


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## Franko

PM-1228VF-LB Main Specifications

Type - Variable Speed
Max. Swing over bed - 12”
Max. Swing over cross slide - 7”
Center Height - 6”
Spindle Center Line Distance from Floor - Approx. 44” (With Stand)
Max. Distance Between Centers - 28”
Spindle Chuck Mount - D1-4, Camlock
Spindle Face to Tail Stock Spindle Face Max Distance - 30”
Width of Bed - 7”
Spindle Bore - 1-1/2”
Spindle Taper, Internal - MT #5
Spindle Speeds (Variable, 2 Ranges) - Low: 50-1000RPM - High: 100-2000 RPM
Bed Length - 38”
Lead Screw Diameter / Pitch - 3/4” / 8 TPI
Feed Rod Diameter - 3/4”
Inch Thread Cutting Range - 5-72 TPI, 27 Different Threads
Metric Thread Cutting Range - .25-2.5mm Pitch
Longitudinal Feed Range (Left and Right) - .0015-.0159 Inches Per Revolution
Cross Feed Range (In and Out) - .001-.010 Inches Per Revolution
Spindle Length through headstock, Protruding End to D1-5 Chuck Mounting face - Approx. 13”
Spindle Length through headstock, Protruding End to 3 Jaw Chuck face - Approx. 16-1/2”
Max Carriage Travel, Along Bed Ways - 24”
Cross Slide Travel - 6-1/4”
Compound Travel - 3-1/4”
Tail Stock Quill Diameter / Travel - 1-1/4” / 4"
Tail Stock Quill Taper - MT #3
Tail Stock Quill Travel - 4”
Main Motor Horsepower / Type - 2HP / DC BRUSHLESS High Torque
Voltage / Phase/ Amps - 120 Volts, 13 Amps
Max. Dimensions, Assembled (Includes cross slide handles) - 49”H x 26”W x 50”L
Foot Print (without Handles Included) - 50”L x 21” Front of chip pan to back of splash guard
Approximate Machine Weight, With Cast Iron Base - Machine only, 490 Lbs, With Stand, 600 Lbs

*Standard Equipment for precision Lathe Model # PM-1228VF-LB:*
• 6” 3 Jaw Chuck
• Chip Tray
• Steady Rest
• Follow Rest
• Feed Rod Clutch
• Operator's Manual and Parts List
• 3 Year Warranty
• Back Splash Guard
• D1-4 Camlock Spindle Mounting • Reducing Sleeve (For Spindle)
• Tail Stock Dead Center
• Headstock Dead Center
• Inch/Metric Threading Ability

*Optional Equipment for Lathes*
• Digital Readout, 2 Axis
• 5-C Collet Chuck,, D1-4 Mount
• 8" 4 Jaw Jaw Chuck
• Wedge Type Quick Change Tool Post Set, AXA
• 5C Collet Set (Inch or Metric)


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## Franko

I just got through talking to Matt at Quality Tools, and I changed my order to the PM 1228-VF-LB instead of the 1127. 
The chuck mount and the brushless DC motor were deciding factors. 
I'm ok with a touch pad as long as it doesn't break. 
He assured me that for the decade or so, I can get a replacement in just a few days.

I already have an AXA tool post and a couple of 5/8" drill chucks and getting a JT to MT3 adapter is no big deal. My MT2 live centers can easily be adapted to MT3 with a sleeve. He says that they are on this side of the ocean, off the ship and I can expect delivery in 2-3 weeks.

Whoo Hoo!


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## wrmiller

If you determine this new lathe is a keeper, save up your pennies and get a spare touch pad or two over the next few years. That way you have spares. 

I've been a big fan of BLDC motors and controls since getting my little SB 8k. I am considering converting Blue (my little PM25) to a BLDC drive and ribbed pulley setup. I think you will like the efficiency and torque of this motor/control design. But that's just my opinion...


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## Franko

Now, Bill, I'm not buying a Jaguar, although I have to admit, I always wanted two of them. 

I've more than blown my budget on this thing. I think I'll see if it works ok like it is, before I start tearing into it.


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## Dan_Austin

Franko- I don't suppose you asked about a manual?  I don't have and won't easily have 220v in my garage,
which is yet another reason I thought the 11x27 was perfect.  I guess a phone call to Matt is in order.  The
extra couple of weeks is no big deal, but if the price gap is that close, it might be silly not to consider it.


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## Franko

Dan, the 1228 has a 2 hp 120V motor. There is no PDF manual available. They don't actually have one for the 1127 as the one online is not the configuration they sell.


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## MSD0

Sounds like the 12x28 might be the way to go. Better get my order in before their all gone!


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## tmarks11

Franko said:


> Tim, you don't have to remove the bolts on a bolt on chuck?



That is usually how they work. Like this (Grizzly G0516, also known as a Sieg C6), you have to loosen the three bolts, than you can rotate the chuck a few degrees and pull the nuts through the larger holes in the integrated spindle backplate.  I think on some of the tiny lathes you end up removing the bolts entirely (like on the 7x12 mini lathes).







But what makes it a "bolt on chuck" is that bolts run between the spindle (with its integrated back plate) and the chuck, and you have to loosen them (or completely remove them) to dismount the chuck.

Three types of mounting systems (that I know about):
1. Bolt on chuck: bolts hold chuck to spindle
2. Threaded spindle.  Spindle has a large threaded surface that the chuck screw on to.  Bad thing happen if you abruptly reverse the spindle (although modern versions also have clamps to prevent this sort of thing).
3. Cam lock chuck.  Cam locks hold the chuck in place, turn each cam 1/4 of a turn to disengage it from the chuck.


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## tmarks11

wrmiller19 said:


> 40 pushes? I don't think you know how a digital control works. More like 3-4 if you have decent reflexes.



Not all digital controls are created equal.

LMS variable speed lathe, someone reported (with frustration) that the digital controls, consisted of up or down arrows only, and each push added or subtracted 10 rpm per push.  Painful.

My version of digital controls are the VFD I have on my two mills, where speed control is a twist of the rheostat, which is very easy.  But the OP was talking about pushbutton speed controls, which (depending on how the controller is built) could be less than user friendly.

Not only do I know how digital controls are built, I have built my own before...


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## wrmiller

I've been designing digital pretty much since it was invented. Now that we've got that out of the way... 

 Most digital controls I have used and designed will only increment a pre-set amount with a momentary push (usually a rising edge in positive logic circuits). If held than a pre-defined time period a series of pulses is generated for as long as the button is held. Can't speak to the LMS lathe as I have no experience with it but it 'could' be a simple latch circuit that generates one pulse per rising (or falling) edge regardless of how long it is held. I've seen high school students design better circuits than that, but whatever. Call it what you want. I'm done here.


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## tmarks11

What you are describing is how I would expect someone to build the control.  IE, not trying to make a frustrating system that people will hate. 

Hopefully the 1228 controller is made the way you describe; the system I describe is (probably) not seen very often as nobody in their right mind would buy it.  Especially when really you only need to dial speed to the nearest 50 rpm on a lathe.  More precision is kind of pointless.

Franko- You got any pictures of the lathe you are buying?  Sounds like you chose wisely.


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## Franko

thanks very much for the clarifications, mksj and Tim. My Grizzly G4000 has a threaded back plate with a set screw.

I watched a video on the Sieg SC8 and it seems like I remember that he had to twist a knob several turns up from zero every time he spun it back up. It seemed like not such a good system. I think the reasoning was to ease the strain on start-ups.

My mill has touch pad controls. You just push and hold the button until it speeds up to the desired RPM. Then it remembers that speed until you change it or turn off the power switch.


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## Dale Aune

Congratulations on your new lathe choice. I also have a 1127 ordered and thought about changing it to a 1228.
I emailed and got the information on it. I like the d1-4 spindle but I noticed it has no threading dial. Also it looks like to
change lead screw direction for left hand threads or feed you may have to open the door and move a tumbler. I also like the way the
1127 gets bolted to a stand better. I think if you have to shim it the bolts being on the outside of the bed may work better than in the center.
I decided to wait for the 1127. The 1228 does have more power and does more threads but I think the 1127 will work fine for me.
It will be a learning experience for me as I have only run cnc machines at work and that was a long time ago.


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## Franko

It's not like I cut left hand threads very much (never, so far). I didn't notice the mounting bolts. My Grizzly G4000's bolts are between the ways and barely reachable. Hopefully the wider ways will mitigate that.


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## MSD0

I don't think you could go wrong with either machine. I'm going to give Matt a call tomorrow and get whichever one has the shortest lead time.


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## higgite

wrmiller19 said:


> I've been designing digital pretty much since it was invented. Now that we've got that out of the way...
> 
> Most digital controls I have used and designed will only increment a pre-set amount with a momentary push (usually a rising edge in positive logic circuits). If held than a pre-defined time period a series of pulses is generated for as long as the button is held. Can't speak to the LMS lathe as I have no experience with it but it 'could' be a simple latch circuit that generates one pulse per rising (or falling) edge regardless of how long it is held. I've seen high school students design better circuits than that, but whatever. Call it what you want. I'm done here.



The LMS 8.5x16/20 is like your first example. It increments 10rpm with each momentary push of the up or down buttons. But, if you hold one of the buttons in, it smoothly accelerates or decelerates until you let the button go. It took me about 5 minutes of playing to get used to mine after having had a mini with the typical speed control knob that you had to start from zero every time you stopped it to take a measurement. The LMS restarts at the same rpm it was turning when you hit the stop button. (Unless you hit the emergency stop, then it restarts at 100rpm.)

Tom


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## tmarks11

higgite said:


> The LMS 8.5x16/20 is like your first example. It increments 10rpm with each momentary push of the up or down buttons. But, if you hold one of the buttons in, it smoothly accelerates or decelerates until you let the button go.


Sounds better than the report I heard, but I would still prefer a rheostat.  Twist of the wrist and you got the speed you want.  

Changing speeds in 10 rpm increments is kind of overkill; don't need that kind of accuracy when you are work material that is tabled as "100-250 sfm" or "200-800 sfm".


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## Franko

To counter a wild rumor propagated earlier, the PM 1228-VF-LB comes equipped with a threading dial. It isn't shown on the picture or the data sheet, but Matt assured me this afternoon that it is so equipped.

My mini mill and lathe have potentiometer speed knobs and they work fine. But, neither has a tachometer, so you don't know what speed either is running. I never saw a touch-pad machine that didn't have a data screen and tachometer. I am not saying that I couldn't rig up a tach on those machines, but what I am saying is that operationally, touch pads are not inconvenient to use.


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## Dale Aune

Good to hear it has a treading dial. I wasn't trying to spread any rumors just reporting what I saw. They should list it on the data sheet so a person knows.
I think you made a good choice. It has a lot of features I wish the 1127 had.


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## fmj1911

I purchased a PM1127VF-LB from Matt 2 1/2 years ago and I love it. Matt was also great to deal with as well. I had to wait about 3 months for mine to deliver - but it was worth the wait (I also have a Lagun Mill and 1 16" South Bend lathe shoehorned into my garage). 

Over the next few months and then added a DRO, and then decided I needed more power. Mine had come with a 1.5 hp permanent magnet DC power motor and variable speed control. So I did some fitting and installed a 2hp 208vac 3-phase motor and a Variable Frequency Drive that gave me much more control, torque and power while also allowing me to run on 208vac single phase power. I also changed pulleys and belts.

Now I truly have the perfect machine.

As a side note, I'm in the machine tool business and have to attend the Machine tool shows where I've discovered that the machines apparently are originally built by a Taiwanese company named Weiss (  http://www.weiss-us.com) and they have more options available to them such as spring steel ball screw covers. Perhaps the Weiss is the 'Cadillac' of the line while Precision Matthews is the 'Buick'.

I've never spoken to Matt about them but he might be able to order those options or parts too, and if I ever decide to add those I will try to do that because Matt did treat me well.


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## gheumann

I own an 1127Vf - the chuck is indeed a bolt-on. I hated it at first, but I change between the 3- and 4-jaw all the time and I've gotten good at it. i can change chucks in about a minute. The procedure is to loosen all the nuts a good bit, slide the chuck out so you have more room between the chuck studs aand headstock. Use a dental hook tool - spin the nut off, grab nut and washer with the tool. Installation is the reverse - put chuck in half way, start all nuts and washers, seat the chuck, tighten the nuts. It really isn't so bad.

My Sharp 1118H has a cam-lock chuck. It has the disadvantage of only being properly mounted for forward OR reverse rotation. I turn in reverse frequently for some pocketing operations as it is much easier to see what's happening on the far side.


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## Franko

gheumann said:


> ...My Sharp 1118H has a cam-lock chuck. It has the disadvantage of only being properly mounted for forward OR reverse rotation. ...



I don't think I follow you there, gheumann. Is there another direction besides forward and reverse?


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## joshua43214

The PM1228 is a Sieg SC10, it is the larger cousin of the SC8 sold by DroPros.
I have an SC8 that I purchased months ago that I finally was able to get up on the bench and cleaned 3 weeks ago.
I still plan to do an in depth review of the lathe here after I get back from vacation in several weeks.

There are a lot of very good points about the SC8, but the speed controller is not one of them.
As a person who routinely removes guards from my machinery, I regard the speed controller on the Sieg as a serious safety issue.
There is no way to change the speed before start up. So, if for example, you decide to clamp some irregular object to the faceplate, run the lathe with out the faceplate to make sure the speed is not sitting at 2000 RPM. It spins up pretty fast and the controller is very slow to operate.
The PM1228 is still probably a better route to go if you plan to move a chuck from the lathe to the mill, then back to the lathe again. There is no taper on the SC8, and I assume no taper on the PM1127. The SC8 chuck fits loose enough that you can just feel the play between the spindle nose and the chuck, so it will never go back on where you took it off. On the other hand, the D-8 spindle on the SC10 is expensive, and the Morris taper appears to be very true on the SC8.

I plan to replace the speed controller with knobs as soon as I can get around to researching it. Not only do I distrust the reliability, it is a true safety hazard, inconvenient, and irritating. I regard it as nothing more than a sales gimmick. If you buy the SC8 or SC10 (PM1228), I suggest you make plans to retrofit something with knobs immediately. It might be possible to add a "set to 100rpm" button, dunno.
The speed sensor is on the motor itself, not the spindle, so you can get slower or faster speeds by replacing the sheaves, which I also plan to do. The spindle sheave on mine has nearly 1/8" of wobble. It appears that there is enough room and the tensioner roller is wide enough to make replacement step pulleys that are +/-30% or so from factory, which would expand the speed range to 70 - 2600, slow enough for threading to a shoulder and fast enough for carbide tooling.

Sorry I have been too busy lately to get the lathe up and running and write the review. I will also make a thread on the inexpensive and very sturdy bench I made for it. Like I said, there is some very good things about the Sieg SC8 (and some are shared with the SC10), and a few bad things.


----------



## higgite

joshua,

I’m looking forward to your in depth review. When you do it, please include two items regarding the speed controller safety issue that you mentioned. When you stop it with the emergency stop, does it not restart at 100 rpm by default? And, if you turn the selector switch on the control panel to neutral, can you not start the motor and adjust the speed without the spindle turning?

My relabeled SC4 has similar controls and does both of those things. Not the most efficient way of changing speed "offline", but it does overcome the safety issue. I’m curious if SIEG changed the operating characteristics for the SC8. And would like to hear from Franko about the PM1228 controls.

Tom


----------



## joshua43214

higgite said:


> joshua,
> 
> I’m looking forward to your in depth review. When you do it, please include two items regarding the speed controller safety issue that you mentioned. When you stop it with the emergency stop, does it not restart at 100 rpm by default? And, if you turn the selector switch on the control panel to neutral, can you not start the motor and adjust the speed without the spindle turning?
> 
> My relabeled SC4 has similar controls and does both of those things. Not the most efficient way of changing speed "offline", but it does overcome the safety issue. I’m curious if SIEG changed the operating characteristics for the SC8. And would like to hear from Franko about the PM1228 controls.
> 
> Tom



I just went and looked at it. It does indeed operate as you have stated.
Turning off the lathe via the emergency switch or via the lathe/mill selector switch does re-set the RPM to 100.
I feel much better about the controls now, thank you.

I have not actually put the lathe into service yet. I found a broken part during cleaning, and the lathe is currently partially dis-assembled. Full details will be in the review, I will just say at this point that DroPros handled it extremely well (as we expect), and Sieg exceeded my expectations on how they handled it. Service and support had been one of my concerns. As far as I know DroPros is the only SC8 dealer in North America, and QMT is the only SC10 dealer in the USA. Sieg came through pretty impressively.

-Josh


----------



## Franko

That's how my mill works. It only allows speed change while it is running. If you want to slow it down, it has to spin up to the last set speed first before you can reduce speed. When you first boot it up, the default speed is 100 rpm.

I don't have any plans to modify the 1228 until I get it and see how it performs. If it is like everything else I own, I'll probably make some modifications, eventually. Although, I haven't done much to my mill or the G4000. Power feed and DROs on the mill and a upgraded compound mount on the lathe.


----------



## Dan_Austin

I buckled.  I had funds earmarked to add a DRO to the PM25 being delivered with the PM-1127VFLB I ordered,
but as no pre-installed 3 axis was slated to be available until much later this year I opted to use the funds to
step up to this lathe.  As of 30 minutes ago there was one left in this batch...


----------



## barnbwt

Well, if they are almost out, that must mean there was a batch to start with; good news.  I'm not nearly as worried about the speed controls as I am the lack of switch at the apron; the lathe I've used until now has a really convenient lever at the apron base to crank the spindle on/off, so you don't have to reach across the spindle/swarf all the time.  Rigging up some sort of remote switch over there may be the first modification I'll make.

The lathe may cost a good bit more than the PM1127 (stand costs more, and no 4-jaw chuck, so the 'real' price differential is probably closer to 500$ for those of us starting out) I suspect most of us buyers were previously considering, but PM does at least have a decent deal on the quick change tool post set you can get with the machine, to the tune of about fifty bucks less than I've been able to find elsewhere.  My expectation is that extra 2HP and cam lock spindle will greatly stretch the utility of the machine, effectively making it a 12x36 with a chopped bed.  With a few functional improvements like spiders, taper device, toolpost Foredom mount, quick-retract AXA tool holder, and a dog clutch (if possible), the thing should be quite versatile.  At least for my modest needs.

TCB


----------



## toddimus

Dan_Austin said:


> I buckled.  I had funds earmarked to add a DRO to the PM25 being delivered with the PM-1127VFLB I ordered,
> but as no pre-installed 3 axis was slated to be available until much later this year I opted to use the funds to
> step up to this lathe.  As of 30 minutes ago there was one left in this batch...


I just called this afternoon to change from the 1127 to 1228 as well.  Nicole said there were two more left, when I spoke to her.  
I'm excited to get the lathe and my new PM25 mill as well!  Sounds like it will only be a matter of a few weeks before both of them arrive.  I've waited for years to get them, so tens of days more waiting seems pretty doable.  
The DRO will have to wait for me too.  I'll let the dust settle before buying that.


----------



## roadie33

Everyone is talking about these 1228 lathes but I cannot find any pricing or pics of them on QMT site.
I'd like to see one from different angles, specs and pricing before I actually talk to someone.
In other words, I want to see it in writing before I buy. Anyone on a phone call can say what you want to hear about something but when you actually get it, it is not what they said it was.
Been down that road to many times and return shipping is a pain.


----------



## MSD0

roadie33 said:


> Everyone is talking about these 1228 lathes but I cannot find any pricing or pics of them on QMT site.
> I'd like to see one from different angles, specs and pricing before I actually talk to someone.
> In other words, I want to see it in writing before I buy. Anyone on a phone call can say what you want to hear about something but when you actually get it, it is not what they said it was.
> Been down that road to many times and return shipping is a pain.


I'm not sure why they haven't updated the website yet, but here's the quote that I got from Matt.


----------



## Dan_Austin

Todd's post about two machines left eight hours after I called, and the fact I had not
received and updated invoice made me nervous.  I just called and confirmed my order
had not bee updated (it happens, not upset).  The good news is I still got my order in
before they were all spoken for.

It looks like Matt will have almost a full truck just for the Bay area with MSDO, Todd and
myself only being about 20 miles from each other.


----------



## AirWolf

Hi guys,
Just talked with Matt and he informed me all 1228 machines in current shipment are spoken for.... with possibly one person may go with the PM1236 instead, he is suppose to call Matt Monday....so if he does I won't have to wait for a couple of moons.  I've been reviewing and researching for the past six weeks, looking forward to having a lathe. Been 23 years since I had a Jet 9x20... will be basically starting over again.


----------



## toddimus

roadie33 said:


> Everyone is talking about these 1228 lathes but I cannot find any pricing or pics of them on QMT site.
> I'd like to see one from different angles, specs and pricing before I actually talk to someone.
> In other words, I want to see it in writing before I buy. Anyone on a phone call can say what you want to hear about something but when you actually get it, it is not what they said it was.
> Been down that road to many times and return shipping is a pain.



It would be very surprising to me if PM didn't follow through on specs and quality, given their great reputation on this forum.  It's hard to get a good reputation, and Matt seems to have done just that, so I trust they will deliver as they have to many others in the past.  Someone posted the main specs of the 1228 in earlier posts of this thread.  If it helps, here's part of my invoice from PM for the 1228 lathe...


----------



## MSD0

toddimus said:


> It would be very surprising to me if PM didn't follow through on specs and quality, given their great reputation on this forum.  It's hard to get a good reputation, and Matt seems to have done just that, so I trust they will deliver as they have to many others in the past.  Someone posted the main specs of the 1228 in earlier posts of this thread.  If it helps, here's part of my invoice from PM for the 1228 lathe...
> View attachment 103599


I'm getting the 5C chuck as well along with the DRO. Are you getting the stand or are you fabricating something? I might end up getting a toolbox


----------



## toddimus

MSD0 said:


> I'm getting the 5C chuck as well along with the DRO. Are you getting the stand or are you fabricating something? I might end up getting a toolbox


I'm not getting the stand. Probably either a box or maybe a heavy duty workbench. Might build another workbench like my old one out of 2x4 on edge, glued/bolted then planed. Super heavy duty butcher block style. Won't be perfectly flat though so might have issues. Jury is still out on what to do...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MSD0

toddimus said:


> I'm not getting the stand. Probably either a box or maybe a heavy duty workbench. Might build another workbench like my old one out of 2x4 on edge, glued/bolted then planed. Super heavy duty butcher block style. Won't be perfectly flat though so might have issues. Jury is still out on what to do...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just noticed your from Aptos. I went to high school down there. Really nice area, but hard to find work in my field (medical device).


----------



## toddimus

MSD0 said:


> Just noticed your from Aptos. I went to high school down there. Really nice area, but hard to find work in my field (medical device).


I'm actually a consultant doing some medical device development, amongst other things.  What a coincidence!  Yeah, there isn't much here in terms of employers for medical devices.  I'm just lucky enough to keep myself busy around here.  It isn't easy though!


----------



## toddimus

FWIW...  I ended up getting a Gladiator 8' maple workbench as the home for my new 1228 lathe.  Home Depot has a sale going, so I pulled the trigger.  Should be nice!
I will probably add a support leg under the lathe's headstock to keep the table from sagging in the middle.  Supposedly, the bench is rated for 3000 pounds, but I imagine ~500 pounds sitting there will induce some bow in the table top over time.  The support leg should help alleviate the sag.


----------



## MSD0

toddimus said:


> FWIW...  I ended up getting a Gladiator 8' maple workbench as the home for my new 1228 lathe.  Home Depot has a sale going, so I pulled the trigger.  Should be nice!
> I will probably add a support leg under the lathe's headstock to keep the table from sagging in the middle.  Supposedly, the bench is rated for 3000 pounds, but I imagine ~500 pounds sitting there will induce some bow in the table top over time.  The support leg should help alleviate the sag.


That sounds like it will work out well. I ended up going with the optional stand for now. I might make something else later, but too busy to design something now.


----------



## qualitymachinetools

Hey Guys, yes this new 1228 is a nice machine, I really like it. I am sure you all will too. Lot of great features and things. I still really like the 1127VFLB Too, I like them both. 
 I will post more details when I have them. Yes they are based off of the Sieg machine, we made a bunch of small changes to them though, its not just a standard SC-10.


----------



## MSD0

qualitymachinetools said:


> Hey Guys, yes this new 1228 is a nice machine, I really like it. I am sure you all will too. Lot of great features and things. I still really like the 1127VFLB Too, I like them both.
> I will post more details when I have them. Yes they are based off of the Sieg machine, we made a bunch of small changes to them though, its not just a standard SC-10.


Is the 1127VFLB also based off a Seig machine?


----------



## qualitymachinetools

No, the 1127VFLB is not at all. Nothing to do with weiss either that I saw in an earlier post, I see that all of the place and its just a myth, weiss does not make machines, they are just a name. We did work with them for a while for quality control, but not any more.


----------



## tmarks11

qualitymachinetools said:


> weiss does not make machines, they are just a name.


So Weiss does not have a factory of their own, they are just a VAR or reseller?  Their website makes it look like they run their own factory:

http://www.weiss.com.cn/contact_factory.html


----------



## MSD0

tmarks11 said:


> So Weiss does not have a factory of their own, they are just a VAR or reseller?  Their website makes it look like they run their own factory:
> 
> http://www.weiss.com.cn/contact_factory.html


I thought the same thing. The specs on the Weiss 290V-F are similar to the 1127. I guess the real difference between the various machines are the level of QC and customer service.


----------



## lpeedin

No, Weiss is essentially just a middle man.  It is kind of like how General Contractors these days usually don't do any of the actual construction, it is all done by subcontractors.  It is my understanding that the machines on Weiss' website are models that they spec out and then have a couple of factories that build them that way.  Matt is now factory direct and he works directly with the factory to have his machines built to his specs: bearing quality, type of motor, features, etc.  That is why he can offer the warranty he does, he knows that his machines aren't the bottom of the barrel, low quality machines that some of the other guys sell.


----------



## wrmiller

Can't always believe a website, nor is a published 'spec sheet' the end-all-be-all.


----------



## qualitymachinetools

Yes, Exactly. They do not make the machines, and never did. They may have a small place and build something else, but not any of the machines in question or anything like them. I can't say much more on a public forum, but so many people are always under the impression that weiss is building these machines for all of these places, but they absolutely are not. They just have a web site and make it look that way. Same with our PM-25MV Mill, I get at least 2-3 calls a week from people telling me that its built in the same factory as the Grizzly, and want to know what makes it worth the extra money if its the same machine. Or they tell me that weiss builds it for us. Its one thing to ask a question, I will answer questions all day long. But you would be surprised how many people are very demanding with their information and want to argue about it. And I have no idea why. (Most people are GREAT to work with, but these calls come in every week, and it gets frustrating)  I was even told this past week that I don't know what I am talking about, regarding where the machines are built. All I can do is laugh sometimes!

So weiss absolutely do not actually build these models for themselves or for anyone, or really anything at all other than maybe a few small things. 
 And our PM-25MV is absolutely not the same as the grizzly g0704 other than the look and size. It is a completely different factory, different castings, etc. A few parts in them might be the same, thats how it is done, but overall, a completely different mill.  

Back to the 1228 Lathe though, I think it is going to be a great machine for us, especially with the quick change gearbox, and D1-4, I really like those features. I am going to check in to the speed controller, since I have seen it come up a few times. I ran the machine, and never noticed it to be a problem at all, but I will look in to it.


----------



## brav65

Hey Matt I would not sweat people like that.  I like to label them as aggressively stupid.  I have a guy in my extended family that likes to tell me about how a house should be built (he has never worked in construction) and tells me I don't know what I am talking about.  I have built thousands of homes in my carrier, so I just laugh.  You have great machines and your attention to the details shows.  If people are unable to recognize that, then it is their loss.


----------



## tmarks11

qualitymachinetools said:


> Yes, Exactly. They do not make the machines, and never did. They may have a small place and build something else, but not any of the machines in question..



A Chinese website misrepresenting something?  Shocking...

Since their "factory building" picture shows a sign in front of a business park, it could just as easily be a picture of a storefront in a strip mall.

I am inclined to believe the guy who actually travels overseas vs the internet rumor mill.

It does seem that machinery built to the same or a similar pattern is built by a wide variety of manufacturers, with more or less attention to detail and quality control depending upon the demands of the customer and the price-point they are built to.  

I think a lot of people understand that, and when they refer to something as a "rong fu clone" or a "weiss clone", they are simply referring to the pattern that it was built to under the name of the original manufacturer (Rong Fu) or one of the earlier importers (Weiss).


----------



## barnbwt

And if you think about it, lathes are a pretty mature technology so why wouldn't there be a handful of common patterns used for the bulk of production?  Only so many ways to make blue jeans, so they all look the same.  *Look* being the operative word.

TCB


----------



## wrmiller

So a few pics and some general description and people 'assume' they know what there talking about. Even though most of those espousing these opinions have never even touched the machine in question. I have some of those types give me their opinion of my 12Z and how it's "just another RF clone", and of course none have even seen one in person let alone driven one.

As for this new 1228: I am anxiously awaiting one to show up at a member's shop/garage so we can get some more pics and impressions. Sounds like it could be a rather impressive lathe in this size range.


----------



## qualitymachinetools

Yeah, and I don't think it is anyone from this forum, everyone here is always great to work with. And like I said, I will answer questions all day long about anything, but for some reason, from just a few people, when I answer, they want to argue. No idea why. I guess thats the good thing about grizzly and other places, when the people there answer the phone, they really have no idea where the machine is made, so they can't answer the question. I have one right now who thought he was clever and ordered a machine direct from what he thought was one factory that we use. It was just a trading company, they are all over the internet. Did not get even the right machine, and cost him more than it would have from us anyway. And now he thinks that I have some connection where I can get this fixed for him, and says that if I don't help him, he is going to sue me. Sue me for what? It makes me laugh sometimes. So sometimes when I am really busy, it is dealing with the dumb things like that. Gets kind of frustrating. 

   But like I said though, 99% of people are so good to deal with, I am really lucky to have the kinds of customers that I do. When I grew up, both of my grandfathers were in to this kind of thing, the one who I grew up next door to worked in coal mines since he was 14 years old, and then steel mills after that. He was always working on my toy trains and things like that with me, I think I was 5 the first time I soldered something on a model train. Then I would go home, crash it, and come fix it again. And my other grandfather was a baker, but he was really in to woodworking as a hobby, I remember his basement wood shop in the small cramped space, but it was amazing the kinds of things he would build with the limited budget and space he had. And I was always working on tractors and things like that with my dad. So anytime I get a customer like the one in the above paragraph, I think back on growing up, and many of the other customers I have remind me of that. If only I didn't have to deal with the business end of it, I would be set!

 But back to that 1228, yes, I am really excited about this model. I am also having a version of the PM-1127VF built in Taiwan, they are on their way too. But that one is not cheap, its close to the $4000 price. Lots going on here, but I am getting text messages asking where I am at, supposed to be at a memorial day picnic today, I better get going.


----------



## tmarks11

qualitymachinetools said:


> I am also having a version of the PM-1127VF built in Taiwan, they are on their way too. But that one is not cheap, its close to the $4000 price.


Awesome that you are stepping up to some serious quality offerings.  Between this, the PM-1340GT and the 9x35T mill, you are rounding out a nice product line!


----------



## tmarks11

wrmiller19 said:


> I have some of those types give me their opinion of my 12Z and how it's "just another RF clone"....



Bill, you know your 12Z started life as a ZAY7045.... when it was a baby.... and then they fed it really well, and dosed it with steroids.... and then it started pumping iron in middle school and never looked back...


----------



## wrmiller

ROFLOL...


----------



## MSD0

tmarks11 said:


> Bill, you know your 12Z started life as a ZAY7045.... when it was a baby.... and then they fed it really well, and dosed it with steroids.... and then it started pumping iron in middle school and never looked back...


Yea, I saw some pics of the 12z in one of your threads and that thing looks huge.


----------



## Franko

I got an email from Nicole today. PM1228-VF-LBs have arrived in their warehouse today. I finished paying for mine and she says it will be on its way early next week. It might be in my hands by next weekend. Maybe.


----------



## barnbwt

The holes are slotted/enlarged so that you can get all three bolts started at the same time, which is good for speed/convenience, but mechanically it is no different than a simple bolt-on chuck; just ever so slightly more expensive to produce.  I imagine it is technically, ever so slightly less safe than a simple bolt on, since the chuck could theoretically rotate on the spindle if the bolts worked loose (wildly unlikely I'm sure, but still).  My understanding was the 1127 backplate had no taper to its register, so the attaching bolts would need to be loosened and the chuck centered for every attachment (unlike a true taper-registered chuck, which would repeat good enough through the use of witness marks on chuck & backplate alone)

TCB


----------



## MSD0

Franko said:


> I got an email from Nicole today. PM1228-VF-LBs have arrived in their warehouse today. I finished paying for mine and she says it will be on its way early next week. It might be in my hands by next weekend. Maybe.


That's awesome. Are you planning on using a hoist to lift the lathe?


----------



## Franko

Yes, MSDO. I picked up a 1-ton HF engine hoist on sale a few weeks ago.


----------



## Franko

I got a note from Nicole yesterday. My PM1228-VF-LB is on the truck and I should have it by the middle of next week.


----------



## roadie33

That must be a pretty slow truck.


----------



## Franko

Three business days, plus a day for residential lift gate.


----------



## brav65




----------



## barnbwt

Me, too, got the nod around 4:00 --sounds like they're on the same shipment (East Texas)

TCB


----------



## wrmiller

There's gonna be lots of stuff to look at around here very soon I think...


----------



## coolidge

tmarks11 said:


> Bill, you know your 12Z started life as a ZAY7045.... when it was a baby.... and then they fed it really well, and dosed it with steroids.... and then it started pumping iron in middle school and never looked back...



When my 29hp diesel Kubota tractor front end loader couldn't lift my 12z I was like


----------



## Franko

Tracking kicked in this morning. ETA of my lathe is Tuesday. It is in Lexington, KY this morning.


----------



## MSD0

Your almost there! Going to be a long weekend waiting for your new lathe.


----------



## barnbwt

*sigh* ...UPS
	

		
			
		

		
	







I'll have an update on what all need fixing or replacing (so far, the power cord snaked out and got drug under the skids...)

TCB


----------



## Franko

Oh, man. That sucks.

The manual for mine was hanging out the end of the crate but just a couple little holes poked in it from a staple.
Mine didn't have any Styrofoam blocks in the crate. 
I guess that's the stand on top. Mine had stickers all over it saying not to double stack on it. It also had metal corner reinforcers at the top corners and on the middle brace.


----------



## brav65

Bummer,  at least Matt is good at shipping out replacement parts fast.


----------



## MSD0

That's too bad barnbwt. Man, I'm not sure if I would accept delivery with that much damage. Does it look like it was dropped?


----------



## barnbwt

Got the lathe situated, and once I get back after the weekend, will begin the tedious 'alignment' phase.   Anyone have  a clue as to how we're supposed to level a lathe with a single row of four bolts supporting it?  I guess you'd want to shim to either side of the feet of the casting, but that seems like you'd be putting a lot of pressure (once bolted up) on a small area of not too sturdy material.  The stand itself seems flexible enough that shimming it's four corners wouldn't get you very far.






Beneath the stand feet I placed two sections of rubber horse-stall matt, and had enough left for an anti-fatigue matt and padded grippy surface for the top of the head stock.  Power cord is chewed up, but no conductors exposed, so it powered up just find and turns how you'd expect.  One wrinkle that's weird is the on switch has a position for milling...with the Sieg milling attachment that bolts onto the back of the bed.  The machine is definitely of Sieg origin, licensed or otherwise.  The speed readout is not very good, but it's at least both very small and very simple; the spindle is drilled for a pressed-in magnet, and a very cheap Hall effect sensor detects it.  The readout updates once a second or so, but varies 50-90rpm as the machine idles (seemingly smoothly) when first turned on.  Upon pressing the speed up/down buttons, the delay is in the multiple seconds, and along with  the aforementioned inaccuracy, makes it hard to tell if the lathe is actually responding.  It doesn't help that the motor and gearbox are practically silent, lol.  The shaft magnet is probably fine, and the sensor likely becomes more accurate as the magnet moves faster, and the whole sensor/display unit is about the size of a pack of ciggies and bolted to the casting.  If any component should become broken or too irritating, it would be simple enough to rig up a cheap ebay RPM sensor of better quality.

I'm still taking stock of what all I'm missing; I don't think it's too much stuff, and not anything super important (worst is one of the extra 3 jaw jaws is missing).  The QCTP I ordered as well as the thread dials are not shipping with these machines, they are coming later, apparently.  Bit of a let down there, but I will be plenty entertained running old HSS stubs out of the turret post while I learn.  Machine was quite dirty, which may be due to the damaged crate, although the machine was wrapped in plastic.  No grit anywhere as best I can tell, which is the important part, though.

"Mine didn't have any Styrofoam blocks in the crate."
That's not Styrofoam hanging out the end, that's the headstock door...  hanging on by a thread, too, as every single #10 screw holding the various parts of the headstock panels together had nearly shaken themselves free of the machine.  I honestly can't explain that, other than the palletizing arrangement must not have isolated the machine from vibration very well.  Incidentally, I will soon be modifying the door.  In order to swing it open, its rear corner sticks a good three inches past the splash guard, and since I don't have that much room to spare (1 car garage with large coupe) I will cut the corner down into a 45degree angle so I can open the door enough to reach the change gear without hitting the wall.

TCB


----------



## Franko

Good to see that there was no serious damage, TCB.

How did you enjoy getting to that bolt on the far left side through that little teeny-weenie access hole? ;-)


----------



## Franko

BarnBWT, If you are planning on putting an AXA QCTP on your PM1228, you might want to know that the compound slide it too high for one, and you won't be able to put a tool on the center line.

Matt is having some replacement slides made and will send them to us that purchased the PM1228.

If you have a mill it is pretty easy fix. You have to take off the compound slide and the turntable. The thick block under it is called the "Knife Rest Turntable Seat." Turn it over and mill off no less than .050 off the bottom. That will put a 1/2" cutting tool a few thousandths under center when the tool holder is bottomed on the compound slide.

If you think you'll want a tool under center anytime, you might want to mill off 60 or 70 thousandths from the turntable seat. The bottom has to milled because there is a circular t-slot groove on the top for the turntable t-nuts.


----------



## barnbwt

I thought AXA was for 3/8" tooling, shimmed to the centerline.  That may explain why 1/2" doesn't quite fit.

The toolpost screws onto the cross slide, right?  Could you turn back the bottom face of it to drop the tool down a bit?  I don't have a mill handy.

TCB


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## Franko

barnbwt, AXA is a quick change toolpost. The tool holders will hold up to 1/2" tools. A dovetail mechanism is attached to the compound slide with a threaded rod and the tool holders with different tools can be slipped on and off and secured with a lever.

You don't have to shim tools in them because they can be adjusted up and down in the dovetail.

The tool holders are hardened and would have have about 50 thousandths ground from the bottom.


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## barnbwt

I thought BXA was the 1/2" size (or some metric equivalent)?  A friend got a bunch of free 1" insert holder bars, and just used an angle grinder to relieve them enough to fit his BXA post, and shims them to reach center.  What does the bottom of the actual QC tool post look like?  I figure it'd be easier to drop the entire tool post on the carriage rather than every individual tool holder or tool.  Maybe I could chuck it into a 4 jaw and turn the mating face back enough to lower a 1/2" tool to center (or less)?

TCB


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## Franko

The tool holders bottom out on the compound slide. That's what keeps them from being able slide down low enough to line up with the center of your work.

You could have 50 thousandths ground off the bottom of each tool holder so it would hold the tool lower. Most people have multiple tool holders, so any time you get a new one, you'd have to modify it. The simple solution is to lower the surface the tool holder is bottoming out on.


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## tmarks11

barnbwt said:


> I thought BXA was the 1/2" size (or some metric equivalent)?



BXA is 5/8" tooling.

Condolences on the shipping damage.  Not a good feeling.


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## barnbwt

"BXA is 5/8" tooling."
Ah, I guess I was off by one size.  I see lots of "10mm" import mini-lathe tooling which is about .40", which I have to assume is what our lathe is designed around.  Lame, but sort of makes sense considering where they are built.  As a work around, I suspect you could tilt the front of the tool down with shims at the tail.  So long as you aren't getting down to small radii, the cutting angle would remain constant (and its change may not end up mattering that much depending on the task)

"Condolences on the shipping damage. Not a good feeling."
Eh, I buy gun parts kits; I'm used to it, now.  The ebay turntable was WAY worse, lol.  The lack of 4-jaw is half relieved, now; scored a new old stock Skinner 7" for a good price.  If only it hadn't been packed loose in Styrofoam.  So now I need a compressed air gun to clean it, and need to find or make a backplate for the bolt pattern (thru-face, four hole, recessed, with a large diameter register --pretty good setup)

TCB


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## Franko

The AXA QCTP works fine on the PM1228 once the turntable seat is modified.

Shipping the lathes with the wrong height on the turntable seat was an error made at the factory. Matt is having them modify the parts and will send them to anyone who purchased one of the affected lathes when he gets them.

The fix is simple. It took me about 30 minutes to remove the part mill it down and reinstall it, and that included cleaning all the waxy shipping oil off it.


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## tmarks11

qualitymachinetools said:


> No, the 1127VFLB is not at all [Sieg]. Nothing to do with weiss either that I saw in an earlier post...



Than you might want to update the PM1127VF-LB manual you have posted on your website, since the front page says "Weiss Machine Tools", and the last page says "Manufactured in China to Weiss Specifications"..   You are spreading the myth...

http://www.machinetoolonline.com/files/PM-1127VF-LB_Manual_2012.pdf


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## barnbwt

The parts diagram and parts numbers of the 1228 also match the SIEG C8/C10 manuals.  A few options like the motor are different, but largely the same machine.  Which is fortunate because parts are available (my feed rod was turned off center)

TCB


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## qualitymachinetools

Thanks for pointing that one one, I need to learn how to operate a web site and delete things! 

 The 1228 IS made by Sieg, yes. Not the 1127. The 1127 is neither Sieg or weiss, weiss does not build the machines.


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## barnbwt

Finally got my first 'thing' completed with the lathe!  The backplate for my Skinner 4-jaw is now complete (at least, for now).  Still lacking power feed, I used the compound and cross slide to face and square the disc, scribe the bolt circle for the drill press, and cut the 'register.'  The register is probably a tiny bit loose (probably less than .001" clearance) but I have plenty of meat left to turn back the contact face and try again; they aren't kidding about how easy it is to go past the ideal 'snug fit' dimension (I actually think I bit myself by not letting the disc cool off after doing the bulk material removal for the register step; it was about 150deg or so, while the chuck was an ambient 95deg, and the interference between them smaller than I could measure or due to surface roughness).  Anyway, I can finally do gun-barrel stuff now, at least to some level of accuracy, using the follow rest and compound, one little 4" section at a time (which is actually more productive than I'd thought it would be, though still rough on the fingers manually running the wheels)

Machine cuts real nice and smooth when you get that wonky feed rod bind out of the gear train.  I'm honestly most happy that now I won't have to deal with machining cast iron again for hopefully, a long, long time...

TCB


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## Franko

Sounds like a good project, Tom. It is hard to sneak up on that last thousandth. 

What's the plan with the feed screw? Is Matt getting another one for you?


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## barnbwt

We're working on it, and USPS is un-working on it.  Have you gotten your tool holder or anything else, yet?


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## Franko

Not sure what you mean by tool holder, Tom. I modified the part so my QCTP works by milling some off the bottom. I told Matt I wouldn't need that part. He says he is working on getting us a 32 tooth gear for the thread chasing dial and a different 8 mark face for it.


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## Dan_Austin

The QCTP is reported to be due in August and the four jaw chuck sometime after that. 
I have not asked for the thread chasing dial yet, since it seems to be not quite ready to go.


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## neilr

I see that this thread is getting a bit long in the tooth.  Thought I'd report on a newly received PM-1228VF-LB lathe that I'm setting up now.

The speed control is via a knob, not buttons.  Perhaps a change in design?  Anyway the speed is quite easy to adjust and responds immediately.  The speed readout is still a bit funky, jumps up and down by 20 rpm or so randomly.

Here's a short list of additional "Good" and "Not so good":

Good:
1. Unit arrived undamaged, worked out of the box once installed.
2. All operations seem normal, cuts smooth and strong.
3. I'm in the camp that LIKES the fact that there are no safety guards nor spring-loaded chuck key.  I probably would have removed them if it had them.
4. The inclusion of a feed rod PLUS the threading leadscrew is a plus, reduces wear on the leadscrew.
5. I LOVE the power crossfeed, although the control is a bit funky.  You have to rotate a shaft and push up or down accordingly.  I guess that's a safety feature.
6. I bought an AXA 100 QCTP on the 'bay.  Super easy to mount, did not need any machining.

Not so good:
1. I was able to stall the spindle, the low-speed torque isn't great.
2. The paint job and overall cosmetics is pretty poor.  There are many spots where they painted over joints, screw threads, bearings.  Lots of chipping paint.  This is going to be ugly soon.  Also the main control panel is cracked in multiple places where the screws were over-tightened at the factory.  Matt has said he'll replace any such parts (that's good), but I'm concerned about how easy/hard it will be to replace the panel since I'll have to fuss with the membrane switch overlay, LCD and removal of a handful of electrical components.
3. The speed control knob works ok, but it jumps from 30 to 100 rpm at the low end.  The potentiometer (I think) has a bad spot.  Again, perhaps a replacement will fix this, time will tell.
4. I don't like the fact that the feed reversal lever is buried inside the closed panel on the left and you need a wrench to actuate.  Should be a knob or other easy access item.  Even my mini-lathe had that.
5. The mounting for the feet is four in-line bolts, awkward for leveling purposes and it definitely needs leveling -- as originally mounted the cuts were tapered by 2-3 thousandths over a 5" distance.  I got that to come in with shims, but it was not that easy.
6. Forget about running this on a GFCI outlet, I had to remove mine to use the lathe.  Trips as soon as the motor is engaged.

Will report more as I find it.  BTW I'm mounting an old Trav-A-Dial GB42 on it, one of my favorite tools.  If anyone wants the STL file for a 3d printed mount specially designed for this machine and the GB42 please reply with your email.

Neil


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## gheumann

Hi, Neil - nice report. I've had a 1127VF for years. One of the best things I did was upgrade the speed controller to the KBMG-212D. It provides much better low speed torque, much lower speeds (lower than you'd use for painting but good for applying finishes to wood pieces - I can get it to turn about 5 RPM, with the 2-speed belts in the high-speed position.) I never have to use the low speed belt setting to get tough torque for what I do.

If your cross feed lever is "left and down" and the same lever is "up and right" for the carriage feed? You'll get used to it. It IS a lockout to prevent both from being engaged at once. The leadscrew engage will also lock out the feed lever and vice versa.


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