# 1933 South Bend 9 - Older Ge Motor Questions



## buffcleb (Oct 21, 2016)

Howdy... first post here... I picked up a 1933 South Bend 9 quick change and I'm going through it right now.... cleaning years of grime and grease... I finished cleaning the saddle, apron, quick change gearbox and open gears on the end... I replaced the half nuts with a set off a 1926 one... they didn't have the detent in them so if filed it in...

now after starting and stopping it many times while testing I have noticed that sometimes when I start the motor it just hums... I quickly turn it off and rotate the motor slightly and it starts right up...

It really happens most of the time... sometimes it starts up fine...

Any ideas what could be causing this? is it a case of cleaning something? or is the motor in need of repair... there are several similar GE motors locally on Craigslist for $20-$40 so I have options...

thanks in advance...


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## Bob Korves (Oct 21, 2016)

I assume it is a single phase, capacitor start motor.  The symptoms you posted are usually caused by either the capacitor gone bad or the centrifugal start switch not engaging the capacitor for start.  Since it is an old motor, it could be either.  You can take the motor apart, it is not difficult, and try to loosen up and de-gunk the centrifugal switch.  A motor shop can test the capacitor, or the whole motor.  That is usually fairly easily repaired.

A photo of the motor data plate would be useful to help you further.


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## buffcleb (Oct 21, 2016)

thanks I'll grab a photo tomorrow when the light in the garage is better


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## buffcleb (Oct 22, 2016)

I removed the motor and switch... while at it I pulled the power cord as the shielding was falling apart... quick question... as the old plug was not polarized I assume it doesn't mater if the hot wire goes to the more or the switch...

back to my original issue... I watched a couple of videos about centrifugal switches... in those the motor was pretty different... going to hunt for one with these older ge motors...

the capacitor was wet... so I am assuming its probably bad... I did not remove the waxed cardboard from the capacitor as it was firmly affixed... should I remove it? any ideas as to the size of the capacitor to order a replacement?

thanks


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## jim18655 (Oct 22, 2016)

Be careful with very old capacitors of that vintage as it probably contains PCB oil.


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## John Hasler (Oct 22, 2016)

jim18655 said:


> Be careful with very old capacitors of that vintage as it probably contains PCB oil.


It isn't all that dangerous.  Just don't eat it or pour it down the drain.


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## buffcleb (Oct 22, 2016)

so how do I find out what to get for a replacement? does that cardboard just cover a metal shell with a label telling me what I need to know... or is the cardboard the capacitor shell?


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## Bob Korves (Oct 22, 2016)

It is single phase, and I assume capacitor start, not capacitor run.  That capacitor sure looks suspect, but it can be tested.  Be careful if you try that at home, it can be dangerous.  It can also still be the centrifugal start switch, or even a wiring issue, or multiple issues.  1/4 horsepower is not a lot for that lathe, but they did have bigger horses in those days...  8^)


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## John Hasler (Oct 22, 2016)

That's a start capacitor.  No oil in it, PCB or otherwise.  Might still be good but I'd replace it because it's so beat up.  It's probably between 40 and 70 microfarads.  Anything in that range will probably work.  Check the centrifugal switch as well, though.


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## buffcleb (Oct 22, 2016)

So I took the cardboard off and found the label... so now I'll order a replacement...

I took the motor apart and cleaned everything up... for the most part it was pretty clean...So I'll assume its the cap...


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## buffcleb (Oct 22, 2016)

ok... so I'm having a hard time finding that cap... granger has a 165v 161-193mfd... will that work?


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## John Hasler (Oct 22, 2016)

buffcleb said:


> ok... so I'm having a hard time finding that cap... granger has a 165v 161-193mfd... will that work?


Yes.


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## 4GSR (Oct 23, 2016)

My dad's old SBL had the same GE motor on it, just a little newer, 1949 model.  It started doing the same thing over the years.  We would always have to spin the motor a little as you turned the motor on.  After a half century of doing that I removed the motor tossed it and put a newer DC operated motor on it with variable speed.  The starting switch in the GE motor had pretty much worn into, never though to replace the old capacitor.


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## buffcleb (Oct 24, 2016)

I'll have the new capacitor tomorrow so I'll let you know if that works... other then that the only think I can thing of is the contacts on the switch were pretty worn... if the cap doesn't fix it I'm going to try and solder a little bit of shim material there... I doubt they make the contact anymore... so it would be worth a shot...

Next question on the motor and wiring... the drum switch had been wired with three sections of two conductor lamp cord (one of the wires had had been split as only 5 are needed)... I'm thinking of changing this out with a 5 conductor wire... what gauge is required... Home Depot has 14 gauge 5 conductor wire in 100 foot rolls (i'm hoping they have it by the foot also)... would 14ga be enough? I probably use about 4 feet so I can relocate the switch to the front of my bench...

thanks


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## CluelessNewB (Oct 24, 2016)

buffcleb said:


> would 14ga be enough



Yes that will be fine. Even 16ga would be fine for that small motor and is a little cheaper.  

If you can't buy it by the foot at HD you may want to try an electrical supply house.  McMaster Carr also sells it (minimum 10ft)

14 ga  http://www.mcmaster.com/#7081k85/=14qjo5d

16 ga http://www.mcmaster.com/#7081k87/=14qjql0


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## Glenn Brooks (Oct 24, 2016)

I just went through a similar drill with two old GE motors.  One never worked and the other shorted out with magic smoke when I plugged it in.  Oh well.  

One thing I did learn, was/is to check the 'groves' on the surface of the coil.  If they are worn near to smooth the motor won't have any life left - better to throw away and replace.  I guess you can take a file and deepen the grooves to extend service life, but it didn't work for me... Doesn't make any sense to,spend time and money if the core is at the end of its life span.

The other thing is, if you want to restore to original design, maybe pick up the two motors you mentioned and keep them on the shelf for when you might need them in the future.   

Regards
Glenn


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## buffcleb (Oct 25, 2016)

so I picked up the starter cap today and it was about half the physical size as the old one... I made up the space in the old spot with cardboard... after putting it back together I crossed my fingers and flipped the switch... and everything worked... 

thanks again everyone...


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