# Soldering Joints??



## Tamper84 (Jun 21, 2013)

I was out in the shop running wires for my newly revised RPC. Any who, I thought, it would be nice to have a 220 single phase outlet next to the 3 phase. Dont worry different plugs lol. So I go and get a junction box, a receptacle and a box. I picked up split bolts as well, but I am using 6 gauge wire for this. Its what I had on hand, got about 75 feet of the stuff lol. But, unfortunately, the split bolts are too small. So I gathered up everything to solder everything together, but stopped figuring I would ask you experts on your thoughts. I figure it cant hurt to be soldered together, and that split bolts are better then wire nut

Yes or no on the soldering? I know I will have to tape it, I have regular electrical tape and friction tape. 

Thanks,
Chris

P.S. Before any one asks, these are running on a 100 amp circuit.


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## Codered741 (Jun 21, 2013)

Soldering will work, assuming you are using copper, not aluminum, but is not accepted as standard practice for code requirements.  If you are in a city where this is a concern, just go get the correct hardware.  I personally would not solder joints on a circuit that large.  

As a side note, you should never "tin" the ends of wires that are going in to screw clamp terminals.  With heating and cooling, the solder will soften and change shape, potentially relaxing to the point of coming loose and arcing.  

-Cody


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## Tamper84 (Jun 21, 2013)

Aaaahhh ok. I figured there was a reason I havent seen this before. I will pick up bigger split bolts tomorrow. 

Thank you!!

Chris


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## Tony Wells (Jun 21, 2013)

I've soldered larger sized stranded before. I took some appropriate sized copper tubing and cut a short length and made a ferrule that would cover both wires as they were pushed into the tubing until they overlapped to the far end on each. I thoroughly brushed the inside of the tubing and dipped the ferrule and both wire ends and used a micro-torch with 60/40 solder. I used heat shrink on it and covered the splice. Looked nice and has been passing 50 amps with no heating at the splice for over a year. I wouldn't hesitate to do it on larger circuits if needed. Of course, Kearney bolts are much easier, faster, and everyone uses them. Back in the old days though, electricians soldered many joints, even the twisted wire that a wire nut was on, then taped it well.


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## pineyfolks (Jun 21, 2013)

Chris, Is your RPC up and running and are you making chips?


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## Tamper84 (Jun 21, 2013)

Thanks guys. This connection will be hidden in the wall, so Im just going to get the right stuff and not worry about the solder heating and melting away. That's all I need is to burn down the shop lol.:nono:

Bill, thats what Im working on now. I have been released to work, so I have been working in the shop getting everything ready. I dont want to buy a compression ring lol.

Thanks,
Chris


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## Kennyd (Jun 21, 2013)

Tamper84 said:


> Thanks guys. This connection will be hidden in the wall,



That's "illegal" as well, no hidden junctions allowed. Guess you never watched Holmes on Homes? :lmao:


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## Tamper84 (Jun 21, 2013)

Oh...hmmm, I could make it visible.... Ive seen that show like once. This was after I bought my house, I started looking around, I didnt watch that show again lol:lmao:

Chris


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## jgedde (Jun 21, 2013)

Tamper84 said:


> I was out in the shop running wires for my newly revised RPC. Any who, I thought, it would be nice to have a 220 single phase outlet next to the 3 phase. Dont worry different plugs lol. So I go and get a junction box, a receptacle and a box. I picked up split bolts as well, but I am using 6 gauge wire for this. Its what I had on hand, got about 75 feet of the stuff lol. But, unfortunately, the split bolts are too small. So I gathered up everything to solder everything together, but stopped figuring I would ask you experts on your thoughts. I figure it cant hurt to be soldered together, and that split bolts are better then wire nut
> 
> Yes or no on the soldering? I know I will have to tape it, I have regular electrical tape and friction tape.
> 
> ...



Soldering should never be the primary means of getting an elecgtrical connection - especially one that carries large currents.  In other words, you should have a strong mechanical connection before soldering.  If you have this, then soldering is OK.  There are correct and incorrect ways of soldering wires together.  But, in your case, go to the hardware or home supply store and ask for "bug nuts." AKA split bolt nuts in the correct size.

John


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## epanzella (Jun 22, 2013)

Don't solder - use a mechanical connection. Joints have to be in approved boxes and there has to be access by code. Pick up a 4 inch box  that's 3 1/2 inches deep and mount it flush with your wall surface. Use the appropriate metal cover plate and paint it to match the wall. If the look bugs you hang a picture. If you have to drill studs on the way to your destination keep the holes at least 1 1/2 inches in from the face of the stud or use nail plates. It sounds like your using individual 6 ga wires so pick up some Romex connectors for the box and tape the wires to protect them from chafe at the connector.


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## Trialnterror (Jun 22, 2013)

Codered741 said:


> Soldering will work, assuming you are using copper, not aluminum, but is not accepted as standard practice for code requirements.  If you are in a city where this is a concern, just go get the correct hardware.  I personally would not solder joints on a circuit that large.
> 
> As a side note, you should never "tin" the ends of wires that are going in to screw clamp terminals.  With heating and cooling, the solder will soften and change shape, potentially relaxing to the point of coming loose and arcing.
> 
> -Cody


2nd this I run a F16 electrical shop and its against spec to Tin ends and then put in a mechanical connection.


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## Hawkeye (Jun 23, 2013)

In our Grade 9 Electricity class, we were taught how to wrap, solder and tape electrical connections. The teacher was a bit behind the times. Mind you, I'm not saying how long ago that was. :lmao:

I'm surprised no one has commented on using 65 amp wire for a 100 amp circuit. I wouldn't do it. BTW, the company I work for has the slogan, "Holmes on Ohms."


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## buflow (Jun 23, 2013)

*Re: Soldering Joints?? Keep your fire insurance paid up*

Please spend the money and get a licensed electrician to listen to your plans and follow there advice. Do it right and every thing will be alright. Do it wrong and it may be alright until several things happen at the same time, one of them the fire or electrocution. Lots of stuff can be shortcuted, but please do not do it with electricity. I have seen many shops and homes that burnt in twenty years as a fire investigator. Lots of them with electrical that should of worked but did not. Please do it right.


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## Tamper84 (Jun 23, 2013)

*Re: Soldering Joints?? Keep your fire insurance paid up*



buflow said:


> Please spend the money and get a licensed electrician to listen to your plans and follow there advice. Do it right and every thing will be alright. Do it wrong and it may be alright until several things happen at the same time, one of them the fire or electrocution. Lots of stuff can be shortcuted, but please do not do it with electricity. I have seen many shops and homes that burnt in twenty years as a fire investigator. Lots of them with electrical that should of worked but did not. Please do it right.



After reading what you all have said, I called a buddy of mine. He is an electrican. So needless to say, I'm going to do some welding for him and he is going to wire this up for me. I would of liked to do it, but I can watch him and he is going to explain what's what. I do believe I can safely say I know enough to say I don't know lol 

Chris


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## Tamper84 (Jun 27, 2013)

Well she is all hooked up and running!!!  My buddy came over and showed me how to do it, then he took it back apart and told me to do. You only learn by doing . So I do the same thing with his little welding project :lmao:  Thanks all for the help. 

Thanks,
Chris


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## rdhem2 (Jun 29, 2013)

Back in the old days we used to twist and solder joints all the time.  A Kerosene torch was part of the electricians tool kit.  But not anymore.

Why do you suppose that is?

If it was a good practice they would not have abandoned it.


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## Olin (Jun 29, 2013)

All

I see I am late in reading this thread. Chris, I think you made one of the best decisions you have made in awhile. When It comes to Electricity, if you don't know what you are doing, well folks have died from fires started by poorly wired electrical systems. As a Building Inspector, I've assisted our Fire Department on several fires, very disturbing to be in a room where someone died. To see a place where where the bare copper is hanging and the fire plume goes right up from a J box, just hug your family and have everything checked by a qualified Electrician. 

All the best.

Olin 











when


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