# Big Lathe vs Small Lathe



## Robert LaLonde

I've read several places where people think they can make small parts easier or better on a small lathe compared to a larger lathe.  I say *bull pucky*. 

Sure a really big lathe with a huge swing that's setup to machine parts you can only load with a crane may not be setup to machine or even hold small parts. 

Sure a precision watchmaker's lathe may be much better to machine case threads. 

Neither of those is similar really as lathes go and neither is in the same class of engine lathe most folks are talking about when this topic comes up. 

But that's not usually what they are comparing.  They are comparing a 7,8,9 x 10,16,20 to a 13x36 or 14x40.  They are basically the same lathe.  Just a difference in scale.  Neither is going to be perfect with a 3 jaw chuck.  Both can be dialed in with a 4 jaw.  Either can use collets or be setup with a collet chuck.  Both can use solid, custom ground, or insert tooling.  Either can be available or not with various gearing options or tool post options.  

Really.  One might feel more comfortable or less threatened by a small lathe, but a 2000lb 14x40 is going to move less, be more rigid, and have less vibration.  It might take a little more muscle, but you can even do hand assisted operations on either machine.  The bigger machine would be better for that too because you won't have to bolt it to a work bench to keep it from moving when you put some muscle into it. 

Sure you can't compare a Southbend to a Harbor Freight, but that's a function of quality.  Not size. 

In my opinion the smaller lathe only edges out the bigger machine for price, foot print, and maybe in the smallest cases ease of moving it out of the way and putting it on a shelf when not in use.


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## higgite

Bob La Londe said:


> I've read several places where people think they can make small parts easier or better on a small lathe compared to a larger lathe.  I say *bull pucky*.


Maybe "easier" means easier on the pocket book. 

Tom


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## Robert LaLonde

higgite said:


> Maybe "easier" means easier on the pocket book.





higgite said:


> Tom


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## GoceKU

lathe needs to be sturdy and precise if it has more power than just speeds the process anything more them 1,5 meters in bed length is excessive for most jobs


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## Linghunt

I'm in your court on that, but got a buddy with machine lathe and also a Sherline.  He loves that little lathe,  he keeps making added tooling for it.   He thinks it's needed for his shop, part of that is he's a tool collector freak and likes making parts for the Sherline too. 

I got 2 engine lathes and a CNC gang lathe, he keeps telling me I need a Sherline too. 

He has a mini mill too.  Hard to call this one practical.


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## DHarris

Ok, so maybe it's not practical. But it sure is COOL!

Is that an old "salesman's sample" or did he make that himself?


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## Linghunt

he bought it, I think he has a tiny lathe too.


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## silence dogood

Unless someone bought it, the worlds largest lathe is for sale.  It's a Waldrich Siegen 3000x 13000mm(118'x512') .  Unfortunately, my shop is too small(14'x12'), so I had to turn it down.  I guess that I will have to put up with my 8"x14".


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## samthedog

Your opinion of "small" is subjective. I have a Colchester Chipmaster which I would consider a small lathe. I had the opportunity to own and use a much bigger lathe but passed on it. The difference being that my lathe is very light on the handles and very easy to manipulate for small work. 

You miss several important points for why people choose small lathes. For one, the inrush current on a large lathe will pop most domestic fuses. Secondly, chuck changes are back breaking and difficult. Thirdly, tooling is large and can be unwieldy for smaller jobs.  Fourth, large lathes tend to have a lower RPM range than smaller lathes which is not ideal for turning small parts - especially if you want to use carbide tooling on small parts.

Many hobby machinists come from a machining background. As they get older, many don't feel like trying to muscle a 200 pound carriage or slide a 100 pound tailstock up to a pen blank. There are plenty of seasoned machinists who not only like, but prefer their little lathes for the reasons I stated.

I don't know what your experience is or how long you have been machining. I would however recommend that you join a model steam club and have a look at what machines those blokes use. I think you might be surprised at the size of their favorite machines.

Paul.


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## Wreck™Wreck

Linghunt said:


> I'm in your court on that, but got a buddy with machine lathe and also a Sherline.  He loves that little lathe,  he keeps making added tooling for it.   He thinks it's needed for his shop, part of that is he's a tool collector freak and likes making parts for the Sherline too.
> 
> I got 2 engine lathes and a CNC gang lathe, he keeps telling me I need a Sherline too.


How do you like the gang lathe? 
I have been trying to talk my employer into a small one or gang tooling for the existing machines, he is reluctant to gamble as most jobs are less then 1000  parts.


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## Linghunt

*Correction,* he didn't buy that mill,   he had just sent me a stock picture of it.   There was a different tiny lathe he was kicking the tires on and was just too much cash for something to sit on the edge of the desk as a talking piece.

Link and page to Barry Jordan's work.   Interesting.....

http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/jordan.htm


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## Wreck™Wreck

samthedog said:


> Many hobby machinists come from a machining background. As they get older, many don't feel like trying to muscle a 200 pound carriage or slide a 100 pound tailstock up to a pen blank. There are plenty of seasoned machinists who not only like, but prefer their little lathes for the reasons I stated.


Many large machines have powered rapid capabilities, I detest having to manually move a 500 Lb carriage up and down the bed so I always use the powered rapid move feature on such machines.


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## samthedog

Wreck™Wreck said:


> Many large machines have powered rapid capabilities, I detest having to manually move a 500 Lb carriage up and down the bed so I always use the powered rapid move feature on such machines.



Many, but not all. For most machines in the hobby price range this is far from a given. I am with you on cranking a handle to move what equates to a Buick to cut an M6 thread. Here in Norway there are many old, quality European lathes for sale. I always lust after them but back out once I crank the handle on the carriage. As much as I have tried to upgrade, I can't part with my little Chipmaster.

Paul.


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## Linghunt

Wreck™Wreck said:


> How do you like the gang lathe?
> I have been trying to talk my employer into a small one or gang tooling for the existing machines, he is reluctant to gamble as most jobs are less then 1000  parts.



I bought an Omniturn GT75 new from the boys in Oregon, and *love it*.  Small foot print for having it in the garage. I also got C-axis live tooling option that has come in handy.

These are not really good for large diameter parts. No tail stock.  Tool table is just 1/2" off centerline.  Long parts are ok as long as you just doing end work to work piece.  Hand load type deal for those. 

I never did pull the trigger on Camware thou.  Didn't see package that I liked and have been just writing g-codes.  Not that bad actually. 

It's a part maker with bar feed running. 

Biggest trick is being smart on setting up tool table.   When I 1st got it , it was not performing like it should. I was thinking the lathe was off.  My mech engineer buddy mentioned earlier in this thread, said *no way,  it's not working because of you*.  He was right, I was doing things wrong.

Part runs of 100 - 500 is common for me.  Usually when the parts for my own jobs. I don't like doing to many since I tend to over think my designs and want changes.

The 2K - 5K type orders are always nice thou.


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## wrmiller

samthedog said:


> Your opinion of "small" is subjective. I have a Colchester Chipmaster which I would consider a small lathe. I had the opportunity to own and use a much bigger lathe but passed on it. The difference being that my lathe is very light on the handles and very easy to manipulate for small work.
> 
> You miss several important points for why people choose small lathes. For one, the inrush current on a large lathe will pop most domestic fuses. Secondly, chuck changes are back breaking and difficult. Thirdly, tooling is large and can be unwieldy for smaller jobs.  Fourth, large lathes tend to have a lower RPM range than smaller lathes which is not ideal for turning small parts - especially if you want to use carbide tooling on small parts.
> 
> Many hobby machinists come from a machining background. As they get older, many don't feel like trying to muscle a 200 pound carriage or slide a 100 pound tailstock up to a pen blank. There are plenty of seasoned machinists who not only like, but prefer their little lathes for the reasons I stated.
> 
> I don't know what your experience is or how long you have been machining. I would however recommend that you join a model steam club and have a look at what machines those blokes use. I think you might be surprised at the size of their favorite machines.
> 
> Paul.



Some folks get upset when you disagree with their perspective, even if you have a valid reason for doing so. Different folks, different strokes.


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## Silverbullet

Wreck™Wreck said:


> Many large machines have powered rapid capabilities, I detest having to manually move a 500 Lb carriage up and down the bed so I always use the powered rapid move feature on such machines.


We had a giant lathe from the shipyard , it had a seat to ride the carriage , had rapid both ways . Start a cut one day and it gets done the next day. It was for making propeller shafts they told me. Man could it eat steel.


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## JPigg55

I think most people choose machines for many different reasons.
Space, power requirements, cost, weight, machining needs, availability just to name a few.
I bought a South Bend 9A because it was in my price range, fairly close by, and came with some tooling.
Would I like a larger lathe ??? Absolutely !!!
I keep my eye out for a larger one that's within my price range and area, but the one I have is capable of doing what I want it for.
There have been a couple instances where I wish I had one with a larger swing and at least one instance of needing a longer bed.


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## samthedog

wrmiller said:


> Some folks get upset when you disagree with their perspective, even if you have a valid reason for doing so. Different folks, different strokes.



I mean no offence and take none if anyone disagrees with my opinion. Having helped out a large number of people buy hobby machines I have had to run through the list I stated when helping them decide on the size of the machine. There are many different reasons to buy a machine - size is just one factor.

Paul.


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## Linghunt

Wreck™Wreck said:


> How do you like the gang lathe?
> I have been trying to talk my employer into a small one or gang tooling for the existing machines, he is reluctant to gamble as most jobs are less then 1000  parts.



Here is a video sample of a slitting saw we needed.  This 1st motor was not perfect and we sized it better.  not the current meter to motor.  Part was like a 5mm tube with end flared and two slices at 90 degrees.  Did the 1st batch of these with endmill, this was faster option.  

I posted it there for practice on embeding videos in htmls. Still need work on learning that skill. 

http://www.linghunt.com/LINGHUNTVIDEOS/LinghuntVideos.html


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## DaveInMi

I don't see the need for agreement on this issue.  People buy the size lathe they want.  Some of us like to have more than one.  If they are happy, I am happy.


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## Bob Korves

Sometimes it is not so much size as it is speed.  If you want to turn a 10" diameter steel cylinder O.D. and the minimum speed of the machine is 250 rpm, that might not work so well.  Conversely, if you want to turn a 1/2" O.D. 6061-T6 aluminum rod to a bright, shiny finish, and the maximum speed of the lathe is 500 rpm, then there may be issues with getting the surface finish you want.  Just because a lathe can chuck and spin a part does not mean a good result can be obtained.  Sometimes chucking the parts becomes the bigger issue.  Sure, the lathe can turn the metal, but can it make a nice part?


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## Ulma Doctor

Linghunt said:


> he bought it, I think he has a tiny lathe too.


Thats AWESOME


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## kd4gij

Linghunt said:


> *Correction,* he didn't buy that mill,   he had just sent me a stock picture of it.   There was a different tiny lathe he was kicking the tires on and was just too much cash for something to sit on the edge of the desk as a talking piece.
> 
> Link and page to Barry Jordan's work.   Interesting.....
> 
> http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/jordan.htm




  I have seen his work before. I believe there is a video of the BP making parts some where.


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## mikey

Bob La Londe said:


> I've read several places where people* think* they can make small parts easier or better on a small lathe compared to a larger lathe.  I say *bull pucky*.



Bob, your post has my vote for the most potentially contentious thread of the year, and I'm wondering if you're just trolling or if you actually feel you have a valid point. I have to say, you're the first guy I've seen on this forum who has an issue with what people think and actually believes he has the right to pass judgement on it. Amazing!


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## Linghunt

I didn't see it that way in beginning, but after it took root and so many comments it is a topic with strong opinions.   Been interesting to read the different perspectives.  I think I want a Sherline lathe now.

ASIDE: My buddy Joe saw that mini mill at the museum in Carlsbad , CA.  He did buy a Manson Monarch mini lathe off of Ebay for like $425,  the tool package that went with it was a ~$200.   says it worth $1K or so .   He set his up for display and actually cut a little brass with it for shaving.  that said, It's buried under paper and other stuff on his desk so he can't even get a picture of it.  ROFL.  S $600 paperweight that is pretty cool.

link to pictures if interest to a different one.  Tool package is pretty neat.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-and-history/toy-lathe-built-manson-small-machines-inc-280016


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## mikey

Linghunt said:


> I didn't see it that way in beginning, but after it took root and so many comments it is a topic with strong opinions.   Been interesting to read the different perspectives.  I think I want a Sherline lathe now.



Yep, I have used a Sherline lathe for over 25 years and I have some definite opinions on how useful it is for small parts. Two weeks ago, I had to cut off 0.0002" to come in on size ... so I did. That has no bearing on the current subject, though.


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## Wreck™Wreck

Linghunt said:


> I bought an Omniturn GT75 new from the boys in Oregon, and *love it*.  Small foot print for having it in the garage. I also got C-axis live tooling option that has come in handy.
> 
> These are not really good for large diameter parts. No tail stock.  Tool table is just 1/2" off centerline.  Long parts are ok as long as you just doing end work to work piece.  Hand load type deal for those.
> 
> I never did pull the trigger on Camware thou.  Didn't see package that I liked and have been just writing g-codes.  Not that bad actually.
> 
> It's a part maker with bar feed running.
> 
> Biggest trick is being smart on setting up tool table.   When I 1st got it , it was not performing like it should. I was thinking the lathe was off.  My mech engineer buddy mentioned earlier in this thread, said *no way,  it's not working because of you*.  He was right, I was doing things wrong.
> 
> Part runs of 100 - 500 is common for me.  Usually when the parts for my own jobs. I don't like doing to many since I tend to over think my designs and want changes.
> 
> The 2K - 5K type orders are always nice thou.


Thanks, I can see where MDI programming would be cumbersome with a control that is not designed with gang tool work in mind. Two of the machines that we have with sufficient X travel would require writing code line by line for each operation  and tool,  The time spent programming would easily be saved by eliminating tool changes during a several thousand part run however. There are some gang tool systems that look like they would work fine in my application. These machines have no C Axis control so live tooling is not an option.


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## epanzella

I don't what you guys consider small. I've never built a watch but I've made many small parts on my 12x36 Grizzly both for automotive use and for my radio controlled airplanes. Below is an example of some parts for the fuel injection system on my boat engines. I only have the one lathe and there have been no problems so far.


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## wrmiller

I would consider those 'medium sized' parts, but that's just me. 

But from the perspective of a 12x36 lathe, those could be considered small.


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## Linghunt

Wreck™Wreck said:


> Thanks, I can see where MDI programming would be cumbersome with a control that is not designed with gang tool work in mind. Two of the machines that we have with sufficient X travel would require writing code line by line for each operation  and tool,  The time spent programming would easily be saved by eliminating tool changes during a several thousand part run however. There are some gang tool systems that look like they would work fine in my application. These machines have no C Axis control so live tooling is not an option.



Cut and paste the program elements of different  tools. Each tool by itself is easy to do , If you know how the machining should be done. and tool order.  Biggest trick is the transition from tool to tool and not hitting anything.  I'm pretty good about this now, but had my learning curve.

 I got a "duty cycle" of about 40% on it running if not less. I got boxes of parts that need to be finished or 2nd Op-ed.  I can't keep up with it.  Granted I do have many other hats to wear , but it's a repeatable machine that performs like the specs say.  Tech support has always been top notch.

I could ***** about little stuff, but nothing major.  Buying one is economics and work projections. I had mine paid off in like 8 months.  that included learning time.


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## Robert LaLonde

Linghunt said:


> Cut and paste the program elements of different  tools. Each tool by itself is easy to do , If you know how the machining should be done. and tool order.  Biggest trick is the transition from tool to tool and not hitting anything.  I'm pretty good about this now, but had my learning curve.
> 
> I got a "duty cycle" of about 40% on it running if not less. I got boxes of parts that need to be finished or 2nd Op-ed.  I can't keep up with it.  Granted I do have many other hats to wear , but it's a repeatable machine that performs like the specs say.  Tech support has always been top notch.
> 
> I could ***** about little stuff, but nothing major.  Buying one is economics and work projections. I had mine paid off in like 8 months.  that included learning time.



Program every operation around the tool like its your only tool, and make a safe retract of the carriage as part of your tool change macro?  Might be a little slow for long parts, but are you likely to be turning really long parts and using gang tooling?  I don't know.  I've been struggling with the logistics of this as well since I am in the process of turning my mini lathe into a CNC gang tool machine.


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## Wreck™Wreck

Linghunt said:


> Cut and paste the program elements of different  tools. Each tool by itself is easy to do , If you know how the machining sho.uld be done. and tool order.  Biggest trick is the transition from tool to tool and not hitting anything.  I'm pretty good about this now, but had my learning curve.
> 
> I got a "duty cycle" of about 40% on it running if not less. I got boxes of parts that need to be finished or 2nd Op-ed.  I can't keep up with it.  Granted I do have many other hats to wear , but it's a repeatable machine that performs like the specs say.  Tech support has always been top notch.
> 
> I could ***** about little stuff, but nothing major.  Buying one is economics and work projections. I had mine paid off in like 8 months.  that included learning time.


  Thank you, I have no experience with such a machine, I suspect it costs way less then a Swiss screw machine even with a C axis control


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## Linghunt

Bob La Londe said:


> Program every operation around the tool like its your only tool, and make a safe retract of the carriage as part of your tool change macro?  Might be a little slow for long parts, but are you likely to be turning really long parts and using gang tooling?  I don't know.  I've been struggling with the logistics of this as well since I am in the process of turning my mini lathe into a CNC gang tool machine.



Short parts like 1 - 3 inches are ideal.   Here are some lessons / tricks I have learned off the top of my head.

-1- You want to do your cutting next to collet, so you can add stock feeds in the middle of program ( e.g. a 6 inch part , but after feed you just do a part off, or a thread on that end prior to part off. )  you can get in trouble in "thinking" with stock hanging out hitting other tools.

-2- Do long retracts for tool transitions and don't worry about speed.  Dial those down after you got it running and watch part cycles in real time.

-3- Long tools like reamers, tap heads can be worse than long stock.  I try to put all of those items on end of tool plate.

-4-  Parts and chips falling on and hanging up other tools impacting their use.  I leave part off tool on top for this reason.  Plan to add another output for an air blast, but not done yet.  I plan to do this with electrical upgrade for air spindle and various Dc motors with feedback meters etc. Still building up the E box. 

-5- If possible align all tools on same Z .  easier thinking , Z is the same on all tools.

-6- Make alignment tool for Y on tool height.  This was a must for live tooling. Align a drill on center without a gauge.  

-7- CNC folks know this one, it can be over looked thou. if your part has a taper from stock flex.  The final pass you can program a taper to fix it.  When I thought of that one, I was like "what a dumb a$$" for not thinking of it earlier. 

-8- Transition moves, keep them orthogonal ,  diagonals are quicker, but easier to make errors. I'll do diagonals when I'm trying to shorten part time.  Attempts to get a second off a 10 sec part is hard. not worth the effort unless you are making 1000's of that parts.  but run the economic numbers to know. 

-9- Know your cost base.  Operational cost etc.  This will help in knowing how far to go with code and setups for time and also helps with quoting. Business 101 stuff. 

-10- Don't slam the stock on bar stop when feeding for next part. I place it away from stock by .010" or so, open collet then jog for length I need, then close collet.  Delays for some operations are a good idea too. This can get you in trouble too if prior part didn't part of correctly and now is in the way.   

-11- In tool setup and programing, think about what happens if a tool doesn't do his job, you can trash a few tools before it stops.  ( turning tool breaks as it clears area for thread tool ) that tool is toast as well.)  No way around some of it, but good to think about.  

Hope that helps.  Triple check tools are tight, that kinda stuff too LOL.


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## Robert LaLonde

I was planning on trying to make it a lot simpler than that.  Three boring/drilling tools and no more at any one time.  All mounted in the middle of the T slot table.  To start with a single turning tool on the forward end of the table, and an inverted parting tool on the back of the table.  Z height should be no different than programming a tool table for a mill.  Every tool IS a different length.  X offset is where I run into trouble.  I'm planning on Mach 3 for control to start with so I'll see.  An automatic 4-tool tool post may be added down the road, but live tooling likely would not.  I did come up with a simple idea to control and connect only when in position live tooling on a multi tool post but I have to think about that some more.  

I've been playing with ideas for an optical position sensor for tools, but they fall victim to chips just like proximity sensors and micro switches do. 

One of the problems I often see is over thinking the number of tools and tool holders we need.  How many hobbyist and home shop videos have you seen where the guy has 40 tool holders for his QCTP.  One for every tool and insert tool he owns.  Seems cool on the surface of it, but we only need one for every tool we are going to use for THIS job.  Maybe a couple extras for tools we use on most jobs.  Admittedly I have about 20-25 tool holders for my big lathe so I fall victim to that thinking as well.  On the other hand my mid size lathe has five tool holders and I use ONE (1) of them for 99% of the jobs it does.  And it does the most paying work right now of all of my lathes.  LOL.  

Anyway, my thought is the same for a CNC setup.  Just setup the tools for the current job.  The main point for most folks of CNC in my opinion is to crank out identical parts one after another.  Not necessarily to have massive flexibility during a single job.  Of course I have to add that the main thing I use CNC for is massive flexibility in a single job.  LOL.  (milling)  I make mostly custom one off casting and injection molds.  Often a single job will run all day.  

I want to CNC my little lathe because there are some secondary markets where I can make and sell a few parts, but its not worth it to stand there and turn the handles all day.  Production runs would be small, but 20 to 30 minutes turning handles for the market price of the part makes it a poor use of my time.  If it works out I may also CNC my mid size lathe.  The big one will likely always remain a manual machine, because it is just so much faster to turn a single part by hand sometimes than it is to program it.


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## Linghunt

You are on the right track. If a tool isn't needed for a job, I take it out. Can't break it with it in tool box. I was thinking of posting some setup pictures, but this thread got high-jacked.  Perhaps I will start a new one in the right area. 

Take videos and pictures of tools, a good way to document, I'm terrible about do that consistently.


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## silverhawk

silence dogood said:


> Unless someone bought it, the worlds largest lathe is for sale.  It's a Waldrich Siegen 3000x 13000mm(118'x512') .  Unfortunately, my shop is too small(14'x12'), so I had to turn it down.  I guess that I will have to put up with my 8"x14".



Here is a small lathe for sale. An under floor wheel truing lathe, for $650k. Not bad, but just a little bit bigger than my 9x18" junior. Should be a screaming deal.

https://www.ksl.com/classifieds/listing/45442671


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## silence dogood

silverhawk said:


> Here is a small lathe for sale. An under floor wheel truing lathe, for $650k. Not bad, but just a little bit bigger than my 9x18" junior. Should be a screaming deal.
> 
> https://www.ksl.com/classifieds/listing/45442671


 I know a couple of guys who do HO model railroading.  I'll pass it on to them.


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## markba633csi

The math is off a hair- 3000 mm = about 10 feet
Mark


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## cjtoombs

silence dogood said:


> Unless someone bought it, the worlds largest lathe is for sale.  It's a Waldrich Siegen 3000x 13000mm(118'x512') .  Unfortunately, my shop is too small(14'x12'), so I had to turn it down.  I guess that I will have to put up with my 8"x14".



You are off by a factor of 12.  It's 118" x 512", or about 10' x 42'.  Still, bigger than my shop.


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## benmychree

cjtoombs said:


> You are off by a factor of 12.  It's 118" x 512", or about 10' x 42'.  Still, bigger than my shop.


I saw a big one in Napa, Ca. several years ago that makes that one look small, it would swing 14 ft. and bed length 150 ft. had two carriages that the operator rode on and was retrofitted for CNC and either carriage and all functions could be controlled from either carriage platform; the tailstock had a power mover and power quill travel.  I was being used to make a long hollow shaft for seismic features on the new Bay Bridge on San Francisco Bay.  The shaft was about 5 ft. diameter, how long I do not remember.  The lathe was originally made for trepanning marine tailshafting.


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## silence dogood

cjtoombs said:


> You are off by a factor of 12.  It's 118" x 512", or about 10' x 42'.  Still, bigger than my shop.


 I got the info from "The world's Largest Lathe is for sale-industry tap"   and just copy it.  Thought at the time the math looked odd, but let it go since I was just being facetious.   Still, it won't fit in my shop.


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## Robert LaLonde

That would fit in the back of my shop if I took everything out.  The problem is all my doors are only 10' wide.  I'd take off a handle for sure toting it in.  LOL.


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## cjtoombs

Bob La Londe said:


> That would fit in the back of my shop if I took everything out.  The problem is all my doors are only 10' wide.  I'd take off a handle for sure toting it in.  LOL.



I think with a lathe like that, you pour a foundation, set and secure the lathe, then build the building around it.  I suspect that it may be so heavy it has to be shipped in pieces.


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## george wilson

A Colchester Chip Master is not a real small lathe,compared to a Sherline or a Unimat. I started out with a 12" Atlas,new from Sears. Way too flexible,and could only take very small cuts in steel.

I have a friend who is a World class miniature maker. Though he has 2 Rivett 608 lathes,he uses his Sherline for most everything,and gets thousands for each piece. Of course,his parts are very tiny !


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## Keith Foor

Every lathe has the function of making round cuts in the stock that is chucked in the jaws.  But one has to consider what they are going to be doing with the lathe to choose the correct size lathe for their shop.  You will no more turn a bowling ball cannon barrel on a Sherline than you will cut a 4-40 screw on a lathe with a 24 inch swing.  Every machine size has a range of usefulness and beyond that range things become difficult to deal with.  So the BEST size lathe for your shop is the one that fits the size of teh work that you are going to be doing.


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## magicniner

Bob La Londe said:


> I've read several places where people think they can make small parts easier or better on a small lathe compared to a larger lathe.  I say *bull pucky*.



Well, provided your "Big" lathe can manage the high RPM and small work holding you need then that's fine but there is a general tendency for highest available RPM to drop as lathes get bigger and that can be a frustration for small work, there is also the consideration of how close the operator needs to be to the work for very small parts and whether he wants his head nearly touching the rotating spindle of a large lathe at 4000+RPM  
Regards, 
Nick


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## Robert LaLonde

magicniner said:


> Well, provided your "Big" lathe can manage the high RPM and small work holding you need then that's fine but there is a general tendency for highest available RPM to drop as lathes get bigger and that can be a frustration for small work, there is also the consideration of how close the operator needs to be to the work for very small parts and whether he wants his head nearly touching the rotating spindle of a large lathe at 4000+RPM
> Regards,
> Nick



Fair enough.  I was drilling with a .116 carbide drill on my "big" lathe yesterday, and at 2000 rpm and I have to say at first it scared the heck out of me. Also the 3HP motor struggled to spin the chuck up to 2000 RPM at first.  It would whine for about half a second.  Its not variable speed, so the motor is trying to instantly get to full speed.  Some day I'll slap a 3phase motor with VFD on it, but not today.  

I guess I should have clarified with my original post.  Big being shop type engine lathe size upto 14x40 or maybe a little biggger and small being down to 7x10 which is your typical mini lathe.  A bigger lathe with a coolet chuck o collet nose spindle might be ok for smaller stuff as well.  I think in my original post I did allow for specialized lathes as an exception.  

On the flip side my small lathe only turns 2500 RPM, so...  

Now if I were to do a lathe conversion to my tiniest mill (which there is a nice kit for) it turns 10K.  Not much meat to it though.


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## wrmiller

Speaking of small parts: The other day I ended up in a situation where I needed to tighten up a small hole near the edge of a stainless pistol frame. So basically I needed a cylindrical shim, about .2" in length with a OD of 0.169" and a ID of 0.165". I've not tried anything that small before, but decided to give it a try. Managed to get it done on the first attempt. Couldn't figure out how to part the shim without damaging it until I came up with the idea of inserting a gauge pin into the shim and literally tearing it off. It was like tearing paper.

I guess my 1340 will do for making small stuff in a pinch. Still want a smaller lathe though. Maybe a Taig.


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## Bob Korves

Here is a good video on machining thin wall tubes on a lathe:


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## 682bear

Last week I machined a new brass 'bearing' for a malfunctioning Starrett indicator.

It was .135 od, .050 id, and .062 long. 

I made it on my South Bend 14 1/2 lathe... just to see if I could.

It worked, the indicator is back in service.

In my opinion, you find ways to do what needs to be done with what you have to work with... its called being resourceful. 

Also, from what I have seen, there are 'hobby' machinists on this forum that are amazingly resourceful... enough to make me feel a little jealous...

In other words, I commonly see amazing work in projects being done by largely untrained members... and I salute them for it!

-Bear


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## Chipper5783

samthedog said:


> Your opinion of "small" is subjective. I have a Colchester Chipmaster which I would consider a small lathe. I had the opportunity to own and use a much bigger lathe but passed on it. The difference being that my lathe is very light on the handles and very easy to manipulate for small work.
> 
> Paul.



A "Chippy" is an awfully nice machine.  I looked for a Chipmaster for years, before the S&B 1024 came my way - which satiated that "need".  Regardless of the discussion around what size lathe (or how many machines of whatever size) if a good condition Chipmaster were to available in my area, I'd be all over it and I'd still keep the S&B.


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## Ray C

wrmiller said:


> Speaking of small parts: The other day I ended up in a situation where I needed to tighten up a small hole near the edge of a stainless pistol frame. So basically I needed a cylindrical shim, about .2" in length with a OD of 0.169" and a ID of 0.165". I've not tried anything that small before, but decided to give it a try. Managed to get it done on the first attempt. Couldn't figure out how to part the shim without damaging it until I came up with the idea of inserting a gauge pin into the shim and literally tearing it off. It was like tearing paper.
> 
> I guess my 1340 will do for making small stuff in a pinch. Still want a smaller lathe though. Maybe a Taig.



Bill...  I'd use a TIG, not a Taig...  (i.e.  fill the hole and re-bore).

Ray C.


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## David S

And don't forget you can always chuck a smaller chuck in a BIG chuck or use a pin vise if you want to get your face a bit farther away from the BIG chuck jaws.

David


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## wrmiller

Ray C said:


> Bill...  I'd use a TIG, not a Taig...  (i.e.  fill the hole and re-bore).
> 
> Ray C.



Would if I could, but I can't so I won't. 

I really want that little AC/DC TIG welder that Eastwood sells. Had it all planned out, but the house took more money than we anticipated. I now call it the Money Pit. 

I even have a dedicated 30A 220v circuit for it (welder). Maybe someday.


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## wrmiller

David S said:


> And don't forget you can always chuck a smaller chuck in a BIG chuck or use a pin vise if you want to get your face a bit farther away from the BIG chuck jaws.
> 
> David



I have a ER32 chuck that has a 3/4 or 1" stub out the back. I chuck it up in the set-tru, dial it in, and I'm good. 

One of these days I'm going to either get a 5c collet chuck or the collet closer for my lathe. Someday.


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## Boswell

wrmiller said:


> I now call it the Money Pit.



Bill,  I had to laugh when you called your house a Money Pit. Don't get me wrong. My wife and myself built our house ourselves. not even Nail guns for the first phase so I understand the concept. But what made me laugh is to call out the House as the money pit and not even mention the shop .


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## wrmiller

Boswell said:


> Bill,  I had to laugh when you called your house a Money Pit. Don't get me wrong. My wife and myself built our house ourselves. not even Nail guns for the first phase so I understand the concept. But what made me laugh is to call out the House as the money pit and not even mention the shop .



LOL... Well, the shop was paid for (mostly, at least the big machines are paid for) quite a while back. 

The house was a repo, and we 'thought' we had a plan to get everything fixed with a bit left over for my welder and a decent blast cabinet. But as typically happens, plans are only good until you start to execute. Then everything goes sideways. But it's paid for, has a bit of equity, and my machines are paid for. Still missing a few things, but isn't that the way it always is?

Glad I could provide you the morning chuckle...


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## SSage

The power factor moved me into a 1236 size machine even though my primary use is making small parts from tool steel.

The PM1236 doesn't seem bigger than I need anymore, its still a small lathe IMO. I want to add varible speed control someday, the set speeds are okay for my small stuff while turning, but it never feels just right. The larger bore and spider allows me to do less cutting of my drill rods, so less waste IMO. 

If I could have swung the cost I would have gone a bit larger, but the 1236 is a sweet spot for my use. I wouldn't want a smaller lathe. I was thinking of going with a 1127/1228, but I'm very happy that I didn't downsize every time my elbow or arm bumps a drill bit, that 36" is not so big with jobber drill bits chucked up. The only downside for me is the weight, moving lathes over 1200 pounds gets interesting in my little home shop. I had to move lots of things to get it inside, but once its there your done. Hopefully.


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## Gerry

I'm on my third lathe, a PM-1340. Last lathe was a old Sheldon of 1941 vintage. before that it was a Smithy 3 in 1(if you can call that a lathe). No matter what lathe I have I have had jobs that I wished I had a bigger lathe, usually because I needed to spin a larger OD. There have been times when I would have liked to have something smaller as well-something easy to set up and turn something small and accurate without having to resort to using a collet chuck on my PM. Reasonable or not, I have lusted for a Unimat since I was a 10 year old kid.


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## wrmiller

I'm the opposite actually. I have my 1340 and it is perfect for most of what I do, but I really do miss my little 8x18 South Bend though when doing small stuff. Which is about 50% of the time. 

I have no need for a bigger lathe.


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## Robert LaLonde

You know early in this thread somebody tried to call me out as being a troll, (or something like that).  I'm glad I let that go because there have been some great posts about large and small machines since then.


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## epanzella

I've got a Grizzly 12x36 G4003G which I thought was too big when I bought it but my projects grew into it.  Now I think it's the perfect size for me. Collets and a small drill chuck with a straight shank take care of the small stuff for me.


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## samthedog

Chipper5783 said:


> A "Chippy" is an awfully nice machine.  I looked for a Chipmaster for years, before the S&B 1024 came my way - which satiated that "need".  Regardless of the discussion around what size lathe (or how many machines of whatever size) if a good condition Chipmaster were to available in my area, I'd be all over it and I'd still keep the S&B.


 The S&B 1024 is on my list of dream lathes. Rigid, classic design and with a good high speed for small work make it very attractive for me. The challenge was finding one in Scandinavia. My Chippie was a needle in a haystack and given the metric gearbox, full set of very rare change gears and the like new condition, I figured this was likely as good as I was going to find. 

The Chippie and the S&B have similar capacities but the Chippie comes in at at least half the weight. Both machines are 3HP (if you have the mk II) but I would prefer 3HP on a more rigid machine - not that I am complaining. Given the stiffness of the Chipmaster's bed I have not encountered any issues with a lack of finish quality even on heavy cuts.

Paul.


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## Chipper5783

There are many discussions here about buying a lathe.  

Here is the story on the Smart and Brown: I went against most of the advise given here.  The only advise I followed was being handy with the cash and transport ready.  I had never heard of Smart and Brown before the auction advert.  There was no opportunity for a preview (other than the hour of waiting for other lots to sell), the machine could not be tested, access to the machine was limited (there were other lots piled near by), there was no report on condition or anyone present who had information on it (the machine had been sitting for several years) and one of the housings for the cross slide was broken (broken pieces in a plastic bag in the chip pan).  The sale was as is / where is.

I got it for $1700.  Was that a lot?  Obviously that is a relative term.  You keep hearing of some fabulous deals of some tool maker's estate with a bunch of dream machines going for pennies on the dollar - "gee, wouldn't that be nice?"  I've pointed out to countless people that is not a realistic way to get into home machining.  When a machine comes up that seems right for you - you generally get 2 choices, take it or leave it.  At my price point, I can't be choosie.

I've picked up several machines that I think are good deals.  Every one who has been to my shop claims they wish they could have found such a deal (like I practically stole it).  Every one of my "great deals" came because I worked at it.  Every one was some sort of well published sale - other people just didn't see the gem.

The S&B is a Mk1 (so a round head, no variable feature), it came with what I think of as the standard dress: 3J, 4J, TTA, SR/FR, FP, collet draw bar.  The bed appeared fine, a RapidO post and no holders.  The works original components are difficult to track down.  This was never a cheap machine, while it had seen some tough days, for the most part it would have been well cared for.  Also, a good quality machine can withstand some neglect and still be okay.  I assumed that replacement parts would not be available, and I would be making them (turns out many parts are still available, but at prices that would take one's breath away).  It has the same spindle as my larger lathe.  Considering the good and the bad, just from what I could see - I decided it was for me.

The result has been very satisfying.  The machine is very nice to run, quite and well thought out.  It has a good high speed, but I really like the low speed (slower than my larger machine).  I have never had a variable speed machine, so the shift on the fly is quite a treat.


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## samthedog

Chipper5783 said:


> The result has been very satisfying.  The machine is very nice to run, quite and well thought out.  It has a good high speed, but I really like the low speed (slower than my larger machine).  I have never had a variable speed machine, so the shift on the fly is quite a treat.



I paid a lot more for my Chipmaster than you did for your S&B. I had to drive a 16 hour round trip and paid about $3500 combined for fuel and the machine. That said, I still consider it a bargain and would do it again. There is not a project that goes by that I don't smile to myself while using that little beauty. It has many of the same features as your lathe (speed change on the fly - isn't it a wonderful luxury?) and is very well thought out -although I purchased mine with many of the accessories.

I have never regretted the money and time I spent to get the machine. Unlike a car or motorcycle, it does not de-appreciate and will likely go to my son when I can no longer use it.

Paul.


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## Chipper5783

I think you did very well on picking up that Chippie.

I have talked to a number of people who shelled out extra money to get what they felt was a "better" machine.  Myself included.  I spent over $10,000 for my first lathe (that was 34 years ago).  I keep hearing the same response that you gave, "they never regretted the money and time spent to get that better machine".  I too, have no regrets about that first lathe purchase - I have put thousands of hours on that first machine, done plenty of good work, had fun, learned lots (and still learning) - it still is the most used machine in my shop.

Yet over and over - when people ask about purchasing a lathe/mill they want to buy a really good machine really cheap and ask for opinions on the lowest priced product on the market!  I understand that one should not mortgage their house and destroy their marriage because of the toys they want to buy.  I strongly encourage people to stay within the "excess" portion of their income.  Sure the price is an important consideration, just not the first defining criteria of what to buy.

It is hard to evaluate if a given machine actually is "better".  If it is a used machine, how do you know if there isn't a major issue that is not immediately obvious?  If it is a new machine, how do you know if the talk up is not just marketing spin?  It is pretty much a given that the cheapest machine of that size is *not* going to be "better".

I suppose everyone will have a slightly different way to approach those questions.  My approach of late has been to buy what looks like a boat anchor (at near boat anchor prices) so long as the pedigree is good, and the main pieces are all present.  The only exceptions have been the first lathe and the first mill - I spent a bit extra to reduce the uncertainty.

Most people have some sort of hobby, activity, past time that is not an absolute necessity.  I don't happen to be into snowmobiles, fancy vehicles, expensive vacations, high priced art, boats, partying, . . . . . . add what ever you want to the list.  I have a very well dressed home workshop and my spend is less than most of the what the back country sleds are that you'll see around here - and I still do much of the same stuff that "normal" people do.


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## vtcnc

Linghunt said:


> I bought an Omniturn GT75 new from the boys in Oregon, and *love it*. Small foot print for having it in the garage. I also got C-axis live tooling option that has come in handy.
> 
> These are not really good for large diameter parts. No tail stock. Tool table is just 1/2" off centerline. Long parts are ok as long as you just doing end work to work piece. Hand load type deal for those.
> 
> I never did pull the trigger on Camware thou. Didn't see package that I liked and have been just writing g-codes. Not that bad actually.
> 
> It's a part maker with bar feed running.
> 
> Biggest trick is being smart on setting up tool table. When I 1st got it , it was not performing like it should. I was thinking the lathe was off. My mech engineer buddy mentioned earlier in this thread, said *no way, it's not working because of you*. He was right, I was doing things wrong.
> 
> Part runs of 100 - 500 is common for me. Usually when the parts for my own jobs. I don't like doing to many since I tend to over think my designs and want changes.
> 
> The 2K - 5K type orders are always nice thou.



Curious...what do you consider large diameter. Looking at the Omniturn and just wondering what one could do practically speaking with this. Can it not handle long parts over 1” diameter?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Aaron_W

vtcnc said:


> Curious...what do you consider large diameter. Looking at the Omniturn and just wondering what one could do practically speaking with this. Can it not handle long parts over 1” diameter?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It doesn't look like that poster has been active since January.

Curious so I looked up the specs, comes standard with a 5C collet holder, optional 4" chuck. Says max diameter of cutting 6" but max bar holding is only 1.06" (probably max for a 5C collet?). 1650lbs, 3x5 feet and 6 feet tall, 5hp, $36,000, seems like a lot of machine for such small parts, but obviously it is specialized for doing something because the working specs look more like what you would see on a mini-lathe. I am assuming what ever it does, it does it very fast.

http://www.omniturn.com/bin/GT-75.htm


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