# Looking For Feedback On This Potential Purchase: Powr Kraft Model 84 Tlc-2130



## Marvelicious (Mar 28, 2015)

I've been shopping for a while, but the Portland Oregon machine market is not the most friendly.  Anyway, I've been in contact with someone recently, and he seems to be a straight shooter.  He's recently moved and doesn't have the space for the lathe, but would like to see it go to someone who'll get use out of it.  The down side is that it is partially disassembled, but I much prefer this kind of deal to the "I'll give it to the first person with cash" mentality, since I actually live about an hour away out in the sticks...

I've done a bit of homework (read all the online lathe buying guides), but I've never run a lathe so I figured it would be worthwhile to post the pics he sent and see if I can get some more seasoned advice.  Included is a 3 and 4 jaw chuck, lantern toolpost and a few other odds and ends...  Not really concerned about price advice, since I feel like we're in a fair range assuming that it is a good useable machine, just wanted to see if anyone sees any red flags...


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## Redlineman (Mar 29, 2015)

Nobody can really be of that much help under the circumstances. However, from what I see it looks quite nice. I base this solely on the fact that it does not have layers of ghastly paint, and that the compound is not half machined away. If the teeth are all there and the ways look good, I'd be in. Snug the carriage lock a tad and run it back and forth to check bed wear. By the looks of it I'd guess little wear. My sense is I would not be disclosing who had it, and not waiting too long to snap it up!


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## Redlineman (Mar 29, 2015)

And it still has the dauber? What's this guy's number? I'll call him for you... Just to make sure it is OK.


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## Tool-in-the-Box (Mar 29, 2015)

Looks great. Original paint, has dauber, no hits on the compound, original power craft motor. Don't see any negs from here. Make sure you check the back gear for missing teeth. It's tucked under the spindle and easy to over look. Enjoy!


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## Marvelicious (Mar 29, 2015)

That's about the range of opinions I was hoping for.  It definitely looks good to me, but I'm hardly an expert.  The guy is out of town for the weekend, but I told him I'd definitely be in touch as soon as he came back.  My only concern is that I haven't seen a picture of, or heard any mention of the change gears, but that may be just an oversight.  Realistically, even if they aren't there I don't see it as a deal breaker, just a negotiation point.


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## Mister Ed (Mar 30, 2015)

Same opinion as what the guys have already stated. And I was going to bring up the change gears ... but you beat me to it. Good Luck.


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## eeler1 (Mar 30, 2015)

No red flags here, these are sweet little machines and very capable for most purposes.  You didn't say what you were going to use it for, but I assume it will do the job for you or you wouldn't be lusting after it.  Even has the opening in the rear of the tailstock, so you can have the wrench handle stick out the back when you aren't using it, if you prefer.  Budget a few $ to upgrade the tool post, maybe get a few odds and ends for it, and you'd be set.


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## Marvelicious (Mar 31, 2015)

I've got a pile of hobbies, so nailing down a specific use is difficult.  I'm into 4x4's, motorcycles, guns, brewing beer... well, the list goes on.

I'm already eyeing AXA toolposts on eBay...


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## Redlineman (Mar 31, 2015)

Now I'm home and can see the pics right. Even the power switch has not been buggered. Change gears can be had anywhere, all over the place. I'd be after that one!


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## Uglydog (Mar 31, 2015)

I use the original lantern on my Powercraft 74TLC. 
There are some who would consider that bad form.
However, I use a Logan quick change, instead of the interchangable spur gears.
The pics all look good.
Is the headstock tight yet free spinning? Can you move the spindle around inside the headstock bearings?
Are the spindle threads intact and the spindle not overbored?
Check the backlash on the handwheels.
Are the ways clean?
Steady rest, tooling?
Belt condition?

Daryl
MN


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## Marvelicious (Mar 31, 2015)

Finally had time to check it out in person.  It feels as good as it looks, and the change gears are present. 

I talked to the guy for a while... he said he hasn't used it much because soon after he bought it he made friends with a guy who has a full machine shop and gives him free reign on the weekends.  He bought it from a retired machinist with a shop full of machines, mostly larger than this.  It really sounds like this machine has spent much of its life sitting unused.


I didn't have my truck today, so moving it had to wait, but we shook on it and I gave him a deposit... he said his email inbox was stuffed with people asking about it.  It's coming home in the next few days.


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## Mister Ed (Apr 1, 2015)

Good for you!!


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## Jon In Tucson (Apr 4, 2015)

Glad you got it!  It is a solid lathe.  God bless.
Jon In Tucson

Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk


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## eeler1 (Apr 4, 2015)

I've made worse mistakes.  Might work out well for you.


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## bpratl (Apr 4, 2015)

Good find, you will never regret it. Bob


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## Marvelicious (Apr 5, 2015)

Well, I thank everyone for the advice, or at least confirming the opinion I had developed (I have a hypothesis that humans never really make rational informed decisions, we simply look for justifications for the choices we've already decided to make).  The lathe did come home with me earlier this week.

Instead of finishing the timing belt on my truck like I should be doing, I've been mostly taking stock of my purchase, cleaning and reassembling the chucks and other tooling, etc...  Overall, the condition does seem excellent, but of course there are a couple of minor issues... 

The first is the need to build a dedicated bench for it.  My basement/garage has enough space for a dedicated lathe bench (assuming I haul away some junk that has been taking up space for far too long) but the construction room is currently filled with the aforementioned truck.  No real major trouble, I just have to make time for it, and work has been  a bit hectic over the last few weeks.  I'm thinking of casting a concrete bench top slab, perhaps complete with cast-in chip tray...  I think it would be very cool and quite functional.  Nothing like turning your 400lb lathe into an 800lb lathe to increase stiffness and cut vibration.

The other issue is the motor.  I didn't really look closely at it, simply  because it said PowrKraft, but looking at one of the pictures I didn't post here before, I could have seen it at any time...  This lathe was originally shipped with 1/2hp 1750RPM motor.  The motor that I have is a 3/4hp 3450RPM motor.  Well, that extra 1/4 horsepower won't hurt anything, but doubling the speed is hardly ideal.  It also doesn't have the original two step pulley on the motor side, but that's really neither here nor there, as I can't imagine running the higher speed with this motor.  I'm sure I can run with it as-is at the moment, as I don't plan to run anything particularly large or critical until I get a bit more basic experience, but in the long run I'm left with a bit of a conundrum.  Do I source an original motor (or something with similar specs) or do I call this a golden opportunity to go three phase with a VFD?


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## eeler1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Now that you have a lathe, you can make the pulley.  Make it double size and use that motor?

these old lathes have often been modded by prior owners, part of the deal.  yours looks pretty nice to me, despite prior alterations.  I'd vfd if it was 3 phase, but a different motor might be cheaper if not.


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## Redlineman (Apr 6, 2015)

Hey;

From memory, you could probably get away with gearing this motor down with a large pulley, as I recall the MW versions of this lathe do not have the enclosed drive box of their Logan cousins. No room for such things in the Logan case. Original pullies are not all that easy to come by, and their sizes are a little odd, making them hard to replicate in the aftermarket. Of course, you can always get a new one from Logan. 3-phase with a VFD is a nice way to go if you have the money to spend. The correct rpm 1-phase motor is likely cheaper, but you still have the pulley problem.

That 3-phase idea is likely the most expensive, and at the same time, the easiest to pull off, as it obviates all the pulley size hoo ha.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Reporting half dead from Brockville, Ontario.


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## MBfrontier (Apr 6, 2015)

Hey, Marvelicious.
Congratulations on your lathe purchase. It looks like a solid lathe that will be a good start to take it as far as you decide. Now you can start having fun getting it set up, tooled, and fix what needs to be fixed.

I'm not sure what the original pulley size is on your lathe. If it is the same as a Logan 200, there is one on eBay right now. It is listed with pulley sizes 2 1/4 & 4 1/4 with 5/8 shaft. It might not be there very long.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-10...203?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41935e97ab

Good luck with your new toy.


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## Redlineman (Apr 6, 2015)

According to Logan;

"For 10” lathes, the motor pulley (LP-1885 or LA-349) is approximately 2.31" & 4.28" in diameter."

That appears to be the right one, in round numbers.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reporting Half Live from Brockville, Ontario.


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## Marvelicious (Apr 6, 2015)

Unless I'm not thinking entirely clearly, a larger pulley on the motor will make the spindle spin faster, not slower.  The way to make this motor work is to put the smallest pulley I can on it.

$70 just for the sake of getting an original pulley seems a bit steep.  That money that could be better saved for a VFD in the future.  I think I'll make due for now and be happier in the long run with the ability to dial in a speed at will.


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## markknx (Apr 6, 2015)

Redlineman said:


> And it still has the dauber? What's this guy's number? I'll call him for you... Just to make sure it is OK.



I may sound stupid for asking but what's a dauber?


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## John Hasler (Apr 6, 2015)

markknx said:


> I may sound stupid for asking but what's a dauber?


It's the little brass dohickey on the left front of the tailstock.  You keep the hole it sits in full of white lead and use the dauber to daub it onto the dead center to lubricate it.  It's a rare lathe that still has the original one.


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## markknx (Apr 6, 2015)

Unless I'm not thinking entirely clearly, a larger pulley on the motor will make the spindle spin faster, not slower. The way to make this motor work is to put the smallest pulley I can on it.

Correct!  And I don't think you will find a pulley  1/2 that circumference How ever going on the above post for the size pulley you should be somewhere around your high speed range.
Mark


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## markknx (Apr 6, 2015)

John thanks now I know.

Marvelisious, See what I am saying about the Pulley it looks like what is on your motor is about 2-1/4 it was stated above that a 2-1/4 & 4-1/4 were the stock pulleys. If I recall that would make the 4-1/4" about 13.3" and 2-1/4" is about 7" factor in X2 of the motor and you are close. Bad news is I think you would need a 1.125 pulley to correct the low speed. This is if  I am thinking right.
Mark


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## Marvelicious (Apr 6, 2015)

I haven't measured that pulley yet, but that's about how the math came out in my head as well.  I think the thing to do is save for the vfd and 3 phase motor and put that motor on ebay afterward.  A matching motor has "cool factor", but variable speed at a touch is more useful.


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## mrbreezeet1 (Apr 6, 2015)

MBfrontier said:


> Hey, Marvelicious.
> Congratulations on your lathe purchase. It looks like a solid lathe that will be a good start to take it as far as you decide. Now you can start having fun getting it set up, tooled, and fix what needs to be fixed.
> 
> I'm not sure what the original pulley size is on your lathe. If it is the same as a Logan 200, there is one on eBay right now. It is listed with pulley sizes 2 1/4 & 4 1/4 with 5/8 shaft. It might not be there very long.
> ...


that pulley size is correct for that lathe also.


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## Redlineman (Apr 6, 2015)

correct on the pulley sizes. I reversed the driven vs the driving. That stock pulley is about as small as you can get and still have enough meat left to get a set screw in it. It's very difficult to find anything smaller than it. I couldn't.

It's hard to argue against the advantages of a vfd.


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## mrbreezeet1 (Apr 6, 2015)

even lf you go with a VFD, l would still get the factory double pulley, To give yourself all the speed options (ranges) you can get. 
Might even want to go with at least a 1HP on you 3 phase motor, just in case there is any torque loss at low(er) speeds. 
Look for a VFD , IIRC the feature is called "vectorless" drive.  
This is said to NOT lose torque at lower speeds.


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## markknx (Apr 6, 2015)

Redlineman,  you are spot on  finding a pulley that small for that shaft and belt size. Even if you made one the possibility of  the belt jumping become to high for my liking. The point I was throwing out there was He should be fine to run with out fear of burning up the spindle bearings. Until Of course he gets a VFD. But the good news is he got him what looks like a fine little lathe and it came with a good excuse to add VFD. 
Mark


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## wa5cab (Apr 7, 2015)

Putting a larger pulley on the motor would speed the lathe up, not slow it down.  To achieve the original spindle speeds with a 3450 RPM motor, the smaller dia. motor pulley would have to be about 1-1/8" dia.  Too small for a 3L or 4L belt.


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## mrbreezeet1 (Apr 7, 2015)

wa5cab said:


> Putting a larger pulley on the motor would speed the lathe up, not slow it down.  To achieve the original spindle speeds with a 3450 RPM motor, the smaller dia. motor pulley would have to be about 1-1/8" dia.  Too small for a 3L or 4L belt.


True. 
Unless you found a larger one, (Pulley) for now at least,  for the jack shaft. 
Too bad you don't live around here, I could loan you a 1725 motor till you get your 3 phase and VFD.


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## mrbreezeet1 (Apr 7, 2015)

markknx said:


> I may sound stupid for asking but what's a dauber?


My lathe still has it's dauber. 
(unisaw has a "goose egg" too................LOL)


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## Marvelicious (Apr 7, 2015)

mrbreezeet1 said:


> True.
> Unless you found a larger one, (Pulley) for now at least,  for the jack shaft.
> Too bad you don't live around here, I could loan you a 1725 motor till you get your 3 phase and VFD.



Thanks, but it's hardly worth moving... lol.

Honestly, as busy as work is becoming at the moment, I may wind up with money to go the vfd route before I have time to build my bench anyway.  When it rains, it pours.  Still, if it winds up ready to go when things get slow again it will all be worth it.


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## Marvelicious (Apr 26, 2015)

Well, the "busy" problem is still rearing its ugly head, but with that comes spare cash.  I've been shopping  for 3 phase motors and I talked to a guy today who has a  collection of various motors that he's looking to liquidate.  He says he has 3 phase motors that would be suitable for lathe use in 1/2, 3/4, 1, and 5hp.  The motor in his ad was a Baldor 3538 which looks like it would be very comparable to the original motor, but all things (service factor, mounting style, duty rating, etc, etc...) being equal, I wonder if I wouldn't be happier with a 3/4 or 1hp.  Is 1/2 hp sufficient, or should I go bigger?


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## eeler1 (Apr 26, 2015)

3/4 or even 1/2 should be plenty if it's a U.S. made motor, the lathe wasn't designed to use a larger motor


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## Marvelicious (Apr 26, 2015)

Realistically, the 5 was never an option, but I'm considering even as large as the 1hp simply because I think the extra power may make belt position less critical.  My thinking is that larger pieces = slower spindle speeds = heavier loads.  The advice I read on one of the inverter supply outfits suggested that the practical limits for varying speed with non-inverter duty motors is about 20% to 120% (or 12hz to 72hz).  With the right pulley that gives me a range of speeds equal to stock with only the back gear and frequency variation, without ever moving a belt.  From a practical standpoint, that isn't really an option due to the mechanical advantage gained with the gearing, but an oversized motor makes this less of an issue.  Of course I don't want so much power that I risk the machine tearing itself to pieces... I'm leaning towards the 3/4 - as I said, assuming the other specs are similar.


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## Redlineman (Apr 27, 2015)

Your second-to-last sentence is the one to keep in your mind. 3/4hp should be your max.


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## Rex Walters (Jul 20, 2015)

I'm just stumbling across this thread months later, but I had to mention that I have almost exactly the same lathe (a Powr-Kraft model 2130). Mine is serial number 3124A, circa 1941. What's the serial number on your lathe?

The only significant difference is that mine has a quick change gear box, which is great for threading and power feeding. It came with a complete set of change gears, so I'm not sure if the gear-box was an upgrade or if it came from the store with it attached. Let me know if you're missing any gears. I can't imagine I'll ever need my gears for anything (famous last words) so I'd be willing to swap for 'em.

I replaced my motor but still have the original. It's in working order, but the wire coverings are in poor enough shape that I wouldn't want anyone else to use it (safety hazard).

It's a great little lathe, I've been having loads of fun with mine. I've figured out most of its idiosyncrasies. Let me know if anything has you stumped.

Here are some photos of mine (I've no interest in keeping it factory original — I've made a bunch of modifications to it). The previous owner welded together the bench. I still need to make a better chip pan for it.










Mine also had the original dauber. ;-)
-- 
Rex


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## mrbreezeet1 (Mar 16, 2019)

Marvelicious said:


> Unless I'm not thinking entirely clearly, a larger pulley on the motor will make the spindle spin faster, not slower. The way to make this motor work is to put the smallest pulley I can on it.
> 
> $70 just for the sake of getting an original pulley seems a bit steep. That money that could be better saved for a VFD in the future. I think I'll make due for now and be happier in the long run with the ability to dial in a speed at will.


Correct, you would need HALF size pulley to use that motor. 
I'd go with a VFD or D/C motor and speed control.
0P what did you come up with.

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