# 5/8" Tool on a 1228



## Aurelius (Mar 31, 2022)

Hello,
I have been getting my 1228 dialed in and getting used to using it and I came across a question I hope you guys can help me with.
I have a Seco CFZR 0632802DRB cutoff tool and, when I ordered my lathe, I got the AXA holder that accommodates the 5/8" shank.  No problems there. 
When I tried using it, it seemed that the insert was above the center line of the lathe.  I have included a pic below.  The problem is I believe I have the toolholder all the way down.  In fact, I think it is actually sitting on the compound, not being supported at all by the screw on the tool holder.

So my questions are this:
1. Am I correct that that is too high and the cutting edge should be lower?
2. Is there a way to shim it or something to tilt the tool downward a bit?

I'm really hoping there is a solution because I was lead to believe there would be no issues using it and I really think it is just about perfect for what I want and would hate to have it not be usable.
Thanks!


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## mmcmdl (Mar 31, 2022)

Mill the bottom of the tool shank or mill the bottom of the holder out .  Don't change tool angle !


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## 7milesup (Mar 31, 2022)

I would probably mill the bottom of the tool holder down a bit.  If you have a mill...  
And then to make it look pretty I would put it in your surface grinder to get that mirror finish.


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## Aurelius (Mar 31, 2022)

I was afraid people were going to suggest something like that.
Sadly, no mill (or surface grinder for that matter).  
I guess I'm gonna have to look around and see if I may know someone who knows someone locally.


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## 7milesup (Mar 31, 2022)

Aurelius said:


> Sadly, no mill (or surface grinder for that matter).


Ahhhh... the perfect time to expand your machine tools!  I see you are in Pittsburgh which means you could trot down to PM and buy a new mill. Whew!  Crisis averted!  
It should be pointed out that spending $4-5k on a new machine to fix a $20 part is not only perfectly acceptable but nearly required.


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## Aurelius (Mar 31, 2022)

lol
I've barely gotten the lathe dirty at this point.
While I would like ot pick up a mill at some point in the future, that point is, unfortunately, not now.
Anybody near Pittsburgh with a mill that would like to help me out on this one?


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## WobblyHand (Mar 31, 2022)

Afraid that is the only solution.  I had to mill down an Aloris AXA-8 threading tool by 0.050" for it to fit my lathe.  Same thing, couldn't hit centerline with toolholder resting on the compound.  I was unhappy about doing it to a new tool, but in my case, it was the only thing that I could do to make it work.  Seems I have a compound that is 0.050" higher than most.

How far above centerline are you?  That might dictate what you can do in your shop.


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## WobblyHand (Mar 31, 2022)

A few thousandths you could sand off, a lot more than that, you would be better served by machining or grinding it off.  Something in your favor is the bottom of the toolholder isn't a precision surface, so sanding or grinding that surface with crude means won't compromise the function.  I machined mine and later touched it up with a hone to smooth out the milling marks.  It wasn't necessary, but it made me feel like I hadn't butchered the toolholder.


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## Aurelius (Mar 31, 2022)

Let me measure and I'll post later.  
I think that rod was 15mm OD which would make this a mm or two at the worst, but rather than eyeball it that's what we have measurement tools for, no?


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## ErichKeane (Mar 31, 2022)

I'd probably suggest milling off the bottom of a tool holder so you can use 5/8" holders in the future.

The nice part is you can mill off the bottom on a lathe by just holding it 'butt down' in a 4 jaw and turning the bottom.

EDIT: Another point: The bottom of the tool holder is a non-precision surface.  So you could do that with an angle grinder without problem.


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## WobblyHand (Mar 31, 2022)

ErichKeane said:


> I'd probably suggest milling off the bottom of a tool holder so you can use 5/8" holders in the future.
> 
> The nice part is you can mill off the bottom on a lathe by just holding it 'butt down' in a 4 jaw and turning the bottom.


That's a good idea!  I have faced rectangular pieces on the lathe, they come out fine.
Edit:  I'd use the lathe, rather than an angle grinder, that is if you have a four jaw chuck.


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## Aukai (Mar 31, 2022)

Do you have a belt sander, like stated the bottom does not need to be precise, just off of the compound.


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## SRay53TxTn (Mar 31, 2022)

Fella I know did something similar and used this tool.


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## wachuko (Mar 31, 2022)

Any belt sander will do the job...


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## WobblyHand (Mar 31, 2022)

wachuko said:


> Any belt sander will do the job...
> 
> View attachment 402474


You have a sander that says on it, "not recommended for sanding"???  Or is it a grinder?


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## wachuko (Mar 31, 2022)

It is this sander...






With this belt






That I used to balanced and weight match some connecting rods...






The message is to not use that end for sanding...


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## BGHansen (Mar 31, 2022)

All Industrial Tool has AXA tool holders with 5/8" capacity.  I can't speak personally to this particular one, but I've been very pleased with the wedge-style BXA tool post I bought from them years ago.  Also EXTREMELY pleased with the knee power feed for my Bridgeport from them.

Another suggestion is to shim your tool post higher (since you can't shim your tool holder lower   ).  You could buy a piece of 1/4" (or 1/8" plate) steel that's a little bigger than your tool post base and drill a hole through the center for the tool post bolt to the T-nut.

Bruce


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## ErichKeane (Mar 31, 2022)

BGHansen said:


> All Industrial Tool has AXA tool holders with 5/8" capacity.  I can't speak personally to this particular one, but I've been very pleased with the wedge-style BXA tool post I bought from them years ago.  Also EXTREMELY pleased with the knee power feed for my Bridgeport from them.
> 
> Another suggestion is to shim your tool post higher (since you can't shim your tool holder lower   ).  You could buy a piece of 1/4" (or 1/8" plate) steel that's a little bigger than your tool post base and drill a hole through the center for the tool post bolt to the T-nut.
> 
> ...


Interestingly, I think that makes it WORSE, rather than better!

Based on this picture: the normal '101': https://www.shars.com/files/products/202-9401/202-9401sketch.jpg

measure .938" to the top of the slot, and a slot height of .5".  That makes the 'bottom flange' .438".  

The #1XL Dimensions: https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-mzp..._axa1_55026501_line__67227.1614021892.jpg?c=2

show it as 1.125" and .625" for the same measurements, making it .500" for hte bottom flange.  SO this holds the tool 62 thou higher!


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## WobblyHand (Mar 31, 2022)

The compound is too high for this toolholder.  Raising the toolpost doesn't lower the compound.  The tool holder is touching the compound according to the OP.  So the either the tool is lowered, or the bottom of the tool holder is lowered, or the compound is lowered.  Of the three options, lowering the bottom of the tool holder by machining it may be the best option.  If the base of a replacement toolholder was thinner, bottom edge to the bottom of the pocket of the holder, that would work as well.  Easiest, and cheapest, chuck it in a 4 jaw and machine off the bottom.  Use a sturdy carbide tool, it will cut through any hardening.


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## Aurelius (Mar 31, 2022)

Thanks for all the replies.  



SRay53TxTn said:


> Fella I know did something similar and used this tool.
> View attachment 402473


 I have the Wen equivalent but it's still in the box since I'm been focusing on the lathe.  The only difference between CM one and the one I have from Wen (or the multitude of clones out there) appears to be the color of the plastic housing.



BGHansen said:


> All Industrial Tool has AXA tool holders with 5/8" capacity.  I can't speak personally to this particular one, but I've been very pleased with the wedge-style BXA tool post I bought from them years ago.  Also EXTREMELY pleased with the knee power feed for my Bridgeport from them.
> 
> Another suggestion is to shim your tool post higher (since you can't shim your tool holder lower   ).  You could buy a piece of 1/4" (or 1/8" plate) steel that's a little bigger than your tool post base and drill a hole through the center for the tool post bolt to the T-nut.
> 
> ...


Thanks, but the tool is already mounted in a 250-101XL holder that I got from PM.  With the 5/8" shank, it absolutely doesn't fit the standard 250-101.

Looks like I'm going to be breaking in a new sander over the weekend.


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## MLab (Mar 31, 2022)

Providing the tool holder works with your other tools (presumably 1/2"), I'd  be inclined to take an angle grinder to the bottom of your $30 tool....or take your tool to a bench grinder to do the same.


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## Aurelius (Mar 31, 2022)

By "$30 dollar tool" I'm assuming you mean the 250-101XL?  If so, yeah, that looks to be the direction this is going.
If you meant the cutoff tool itself, it is appreciable more than a $30 tool hence my reluctance to mess with it if I could at all avoid it.


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## ErichKeane (Mar 31, 2022)

MLab said:


> Providing the tool holder works with your other tools (presumably 1/2"), I'd  be inclined to take an angle grinder to the bottom of your $30 tool....or take your tool to a bench grinder to do the same.


I suggested the tool holder because I see it as two problems with that:

1- The tool itself is $30 vs the $20 for a replacement tool holder.
2- The 'bottom' of the tool itself ends up being a 'precision' surface, as messing it up would change the angle of the cutter.


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## Parlo (Mar 31, 2022)

Aurelius said:


> Hello,
> I have been getting my 1228 dialed in and getting used to using it and I came across a question I hope you guys can help me with.
> I have a Seco CFZR 0632802DRB cutoff tool and, when I ordered my lathe, I got the AXA holder that accommodates the 5/8" shank.  No problems there.
> When I tried using it, it seemed that the insert was above the center line of the lathe.  I have included a pic below.  The problem is I believe I have the toolholder all the way down.  In fact, I think it is actually sitting on the compound, not being supported at all by the screw on the tool holder.
> ...


Face off the bottom of the tool in the lathe. You won't need a 4 jaw chuck, with care a 3 jaw will hold it.


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## BGHansen (Mar 31, 2022)

ErichKeane said:


> Interestingly, I think that makes it WORSE, rather than better!
> 
> Based on this picture: the normal '101': https://www.shars.com/files/products/202-9401/202-9401sketch.jpg
> 
> ...


You are correct, my bad!

Bruce


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## MLab (Mar 31, 2022)

If the QC tool holder will drop further into the wedge by removing stock from it's bottom, that works. It seems me (from 5000 miles away) that you're trying to use a 5/8" tool on a lathe/tool post combination that's set up for 1/2" or 3/8". Happy grinding either way.

Incidentally, your dilemma suggests an answer to a question I posted about using a BXA vs AXA tool post on a 1228 lathe. It appears there is virtually no wiggle room in terms of keeping 1/2" tools below CL using AXA on a 1228.


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## WobblyHand (Mar 31, 2022)

MLab said:


> If the QC tool holder will drop further into the wedge by removing stock from it's bottom, that works. It seems me (from 5000 miles away) that you're trying to use a 5/8" tool on a lathe/tool post combination that's set up for 1/2" or 3/8". Happy grinding either way.
> 
> Incidentally, your dilemma suggests an answer to a question I posted about using a BXA vs AXA tool post on a 1228 lathe. It appears there is virtually no wiggle room in terms of keeping 1/2" tools below CL using AXA on a 1228.


Kind of depends on _your_ lathe.  My compound is 0.050" higher than a fellow HM member's lathe, although we have the same model.  Quality control?  Maybe.


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## Aurelius (Mar 31, 2022)

MLab said:


> If the QC tool holder will drop further into the wedge by removing stock from it's bottom, that works. It seems me (from 5000 miles away) that you're trying to use a 5/8" tool on a lathe/tool post combination that's set up for 1/2" or 3/8". Happy grinding either way.
> 
> Incidentally, your dilemma suggests an answer to a question I posted about using a BXA vs AXA tool post on a 1228 lathe. It appears there is virtually no wiggle room in terms of keeping 1/2" tools below CL using AXA on a 1228.


I wouldn't say that.  I have the AXA nad there is a good bit of room for adjustment using 1/2" tools.  This whole problem arose when I decided I wanted to use this monster cutoff tool that pushes the specs a bit.  I would go so far as to say that even normal 5/8" tooling would probably be mostly ok.  I feel like a good bit of my issue is stemming from the overall size and design of this particular holder.


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## Beckerkumm (Mar 31, 2022)

I've noticed that design differences between insert parting tools differ enough that I can use a 3/4" shank for some but others push the limits at 5'8" for my S and B 1024.   Live and learn.  Dave


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## SRay53TxTn (Mar 31, 2022)

4 sure - Life & Education are renewed each day. Lost when we don't practice it.


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## Radials (Apr 1, 2022)

Not an always practical solution as it doesn't entirely solve your problem. But, setting your compound perpendicular to the work, and assuming it has a T-Slot on the top. You would be able to mount your QCTP all the way to the left side of the compound and hang the tool holder lower than the top surface. I wouldn't want to always switch back and forth, but it will get you by.


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## mmcmdl (Apr 1, 2022)

What was the outcome here ? Was that piece ever parted off ?


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## Aurelius (Apr 1, 2022)

@mmcmdl Sorry, yes, the pic was taken after I parted it off.  It was actually the first time I had used the tool and just a test piece but when I looked at it after the cut, things didn't look right and that's why I asked here.


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