# Craftsman 12X36 101.28990



## CBR74

This is my first post so I will apologize ahead of time if I am long winded.  I've owned a Grizzly mini mill for several years and used it to make all manner of hobby pieces.  I found myself in need of a lathe and I made the normal rookie mistake.  I bought the first used lathe I found: a Atlas Clausing 6".  It came with some tooling and a 3 jaw and NIB 4 jaw chuck.  Also included was a Montgomery Ward split phase 1/3 hp motor. For $550, it seemed a decent deal.  I was super excited to get it home and start turning. The fact that it only weighs 95 pounds and easily fit into the back of my SUV was a selling point. Unfortunately, I discovered the spindle was bent.  The drive pulley had such a wobble that it would have walked off the work bench if not bolted down.
Caveat emptor, right?  I could not even be mad at the seller, he was a really cool older gentleman with a '65 Dart, '70 Chevelle, and a '32 International in his shop.  He had inherited the lathe and had never actually run it.  When I told him about the bent spindle he immediately offered to take it back which was quite a stand-up thing to do.  Then he went one step further.  Turns out a friend of a friend has a Craftsman 12X48 on a dedicated bench with a bunch of tooling and he wants $800.  It is set-up and ready to run so I can inspect it thoroughly before purchase.  It has the QC gear box but that's about all I can discern from the picture he sent. (See attached)


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## wa5cab

CBR (please sign all posts),

First, it's a 12x36.  Atlas never made a longer machine.  

The 101.28990 is the same as the Atlas 3996, the last and probably best machine that Atlas ever built.  It sold new in 1981 for around $1900.  In 1981 dollars.  Going price varies somewhat depending upon what part of the country the machine is in but I would put the typical price for either model number at around $1250 without any accessories or tooling.  I've had one for 34 years and wouldn't trade it for anything unless for some reason I had to have something larger like a 20" or 24" swing machine (which ain't going to happen).  If it is in good condition (not worn out), it is certainly worth $800 regardless of what comes with it.

First thing that you should probably do if you buy it is to replace the lantern style tool post with a steel AXA size Quick Change Tool Post.

On the 6", I don't think I ever recall anyone reporting a bent spindle on an Atlas built Craftsman 6" lathe (of which there were three models, not counting the 101.07300).  But Sears sold 6" lathes that weren't made by Atlas and some of those have a history of bent spindles.  What model number is it?

Robert D.


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## CBR74

Sorry, had that one mixed up.  It's an Atlas Clausing 10100, serial number 004010.  As for the Craftsman, all the info I have is the picture and the model number and he said it was a 12X48 but could easily be mistaken.  I will provide better details when I go and inspect it.  The price is attractive, I'm getting the "friend discount".

Is this the type of toolpost you are talking about: http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2280&category=-419988835


-Ron O.


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## wa5cab

(I meant given name, not User ID - that is always shown but some are cumbersome to write out)

OK.  10100 is the 6" MK2 that came out in 1972 or 73.  The spindle has a different part number from the one in the long-lived Atlas 618 (Craftsman 101.21400) (roughly 1938 through 1972) and the machine has ball bearings instead of Timken tapered roller bearing.  But no one ever mentioned it being lighter that the earlier one.  Could be the pulley itself.  If you were going to keep it, we could help you figure out where the problem is.  But the larger machine is also a much better machine, even if your work could have all been run on the 6".

I wouldn't tell the guy who put you onto the 12x36 that he's wrong.  Just let it lie.  )

Yes, that's the type tool post I was referring to.  If you look through that and other sites, you will see claims that the BXA (next size up) is also usable on a 12".  But to use it you will have to have all of the tool holders near the bottom of their range and the tool post, holders and cutters all cost more.  If you decide to get the 101.28990 and then decide to buy the QCTP, don't buy one of the other cheaper ones most sites list that has an aluminum tool post.  And don't buy one that doesn't clearly state that the holders are interchangeable with Aloris, etc.  There is one sold, and AFAIK it's otherwise OK.  But you will be stuck with having to only use their brand of tool holders.  Also, if you buy the Quick Change, go ahead and buy at least 3 additional #1 (or #101) and/or #2 (#102) holders.  The other holders you are unlikely to ever need more than one of.  But if you have only one turning and facing holder and you need to change the cutter to a different one during a job, you will have to go through the setup procedure each time that you change.  Which is definitely not Quick.  

Robert D.


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## CBR74

When I put an indicator on the chuck it was three thousandths off.  When I put an indicator on the drive pulley, it was 8 thousandths off vertically and 25 thousandths off horizontally. By way of comparison, I put an indicator on my mini mill to get a base of reference.  It is within 2 tenths/.0002".  You can also see the gear in the headstock that is behind the drive pulley is definitely not running true.  The two big gouges in the compound make it easy to contemplate how the spindle got bent. ( I did not spot those until after the sale) I entertained trying to fix it.  I saw a used spindle go for $20.50 on E-Bay and another with a $100 BIN but  I do not know what other ails I will have to contend with if I tear it down nor just how true a different used spindle will be.  Being that the seller is such a good guy, I may offer to help him repair it to make it marketable but he is going to have to buy the parts and supply the beer. 

Thank you for all the help and advice BTW.  Keep it coming.  As a newbie to the lathe, I can use all the help I can get.

Ron O.


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## wa5cab

Ron,

I'm not sure whether your .003" on the chuck was measured on the body or on something like a piece of drill rod held in the chuck.  But if the latter, .003" isn't bad for a run-of-the-mill used 3-jaw.  Take the chuck off and indicate the register.  This is what is supposed to center the chuck, not the threads.  The register is the short part of un-threaded spindle nose between the threads and the shoulder or flange that the chuck tightens up against.  Typical here would be less than ,001".  The numbers that you got on the pulley don't actually mean much.  It is if not impossible then very difficult to indicate a V-pulley accurately because there is really no good place to do it.  But my first assumption is that the different vertical and horizontal readings have to be caused by the measuring setup.  The only practical way to accurately determine whether the spindle of a MK2 is bent or not is to remove it and check it somehow between centers on another lathe.

If you do end up helping the owner to fix it, and need a new spindle, remember that Atlas made at least three different 6" spindles (or four if you count the short-lived 101.07300).  And none are interchangable.  One statement you can make about eBay sellers in general is that some know what they are selling and some haven't a clue.

Robert D.


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## CBR74

Accurate measurements or not, the wobble in the drive pulley can be seen with the naked eye as can the out of round of the gear behind it.  Also quite tangible is the amount of vibration this machine generates under power.  I will indicate the register and report back.

Ron O.


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## wa5cab

Odds are that the spindle is bent.  If for no other reason than that it is unlikely that both the pulley and the back gear are off-center.  I was just trying to point out that runout at a given axial location on a shaft or on something mounted on a shaft is a fixed amount regardless of where you measure it around the shaft.

Robert D.


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## CBR74

OK, I measured the register.  It barely moved the indicator so it's within a tenth or so.  I pulled the pulley and found one side cracked at the bushing.  I think it was struck at some point in its life which is what knocked it so far out of true.  It should probably be replaced but for now I managed to knock it to within 5 thousandths with a dead blow hammer.  The back gear still seems excessively out of round to me but it meshes OK.  So now I'm a bit torn.  The 12X36 is a much more capable machine but it's really more than I need and it's another $250 to invest.


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## Pops

I've had the same 12x36 Craftsman lathe for at least 10 years. I bought it from a shop that didn't use it much at all for $500. It came with two three jaw worn out chucks and a descent four jaw. I took it all apart, bolt by bolt and rebuilt the whole thing. A couple months ago I had a customer with some long pieces that needed threads on the end. I bought another bed and added it to my lathe. Worked pretty good. Now I have a six foot bed. Was a real pain to get lined up!!!


Barry


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## chevydyl

Pops said:


> I bought another bed and added it to my lathe. Worked pretty good. Now I have a six foot bed. Was a real pain to get lined up!!!
> 
> 
> Barry



pics or it didn't happen!!
I would love to see that setup.


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## CBR74

I went to look at the 12X36 today and it was not good news.  The 1/2 horse motor could not turn the pulleys when set for high speed.  Is 1/2 horse even enough motor for this big a lathe?  That was not the deal breaker though.  The ways are so worn near the headstock that the carriage clamp bolt does nothing.  It does not start to drag on the bed until about mid way and does not actually lock until about the 24" mark.  The ways at the headstock measure .48" and .49" at the tail stock.  That's ten thousandths worth of wear. 
:yikes:

The tooling was nothing to write home about.  The 3 jaw chuck was OK, the 4 jaw was rusty but a hefty 8" in diameter.  There was a knurling tool (bonus), but most else was just drill bits and a couple Jacob's chucks.

Bring on the pics:


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## chevydyl

Daaaaaaamn!!! now that's worn out (place explicit pun here) isn't that closer to 20 thou when measured at .480?? sposed to be .50. another thing to check is way width, mine, when I adjust the carriage gib at the headstock it takes more effort near the middle and tailstock end to move the carriage. oil people, use that earl. now, my chip pan with all the chips is more like a slurry of metal shavings lol. and yes 1/2hp is enough, mine has a Chinese 1/2hp motor and can take .050 thou cuts in 4140 with no problem. at about 600rpm, however, I may be wrong but if the start capacitor is failing on the motor it might not want to start with increased load of high gear. when I had my motor wired 120 it would click click while the motor spooled up. now at 220v it spins up to rpm better.


EDIT
I just realized in your pic, next to the back gears lever it has H and L, if put into L the pin must be pulled in the bull gear, when in H the pin must be pushed in, otherwise the spindle wont turn, my turns but you cant cut with it, more of a friction turn. that may be why it wont turn when you say it wont turn in high, also the H and L are backwards, lever up pin engaged, is "High"


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## wa5cab

Ron,

The original bed thickness is 0.5000.  Mine (bought new in 1981) is 0.499 +/- up near the headstock.  Yes, as Chevy says, 1/2 HP is generally adequate.  I have a 3/4 HP on mine but that is the maximum recommended.

Chevy,

If, with the bull gear pin pulled out, your spindle comes up to speed no load but with a chuck on it, or nearly so, you probably need to oil the bushings in the spindle pulley.  With the pin pulled and the belts slackened, it should be easy to turn the spindle.

Robert D.


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## chevydyl

My spindle turns nice and free. However the PO or owners mistaken the bushing oil plug for a set screw. When I changed belts this year I had to file the burrs. I had to drive the spindle out but the bushings were ok. I have a picture of my spindle out and it's not great. You can tell it was neglected during oiling procedures. The old man I got it from "restored" it. New bearings. New paint. He said it didn't need bearings but replaced em anyway. Gone is the chance to date my lathe. No tags. No nothing.


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## CBR74

Needless to say, I passed on the lathe.  It's basically scrap metal as far as I'm concerned.

-Ron O.


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## Pops

Chevy,
Here's a couple pictures of my setup. Luckily I did get it operational because I had a customer who has 8. 54" stainless tubes he wants a relief cut in for a bushing. 
	

		
			
		

		
	






	

		
			
		

		
	
Did the first one today and it worked out great. Have the other 7 tomorrow then the bushings.


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## chevydyl

Pops that is legit! But I really would like to see the joints up close. As well as the lead screw joint.... that's awesome man


Well hopefully you find another lathe and start shreddin metal


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## wa5cab

Chevy,

Too bad about the missing nameplate.  Unfortunately, Atlas quit stamping the serial numbers into the beds sometime in the early 1950's.  

On the spindle pulley oil screw, you've already fixed the spindle.  If you haven't already found a solution to stopping the oil plug (set screw), simplest solution that doesn't require pulling the spindle again is to find a nylon patch 1/4"-20 socket head set screw and drill a hole through it.  Then run it into the hole just deep enough that the plug screw has room enough to get below the start of the tapped hole.

Robert D.


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## Pops

Chevy,
Yes, I did do it. Works great! Need to find or make a chip pan for it. Makes a big mess on the floor. 
Few pictures of the joints. I bought a 10' length of acme threaded rod and machined both ends so it would fit. Darn thing had a real bad bend that was a real pain to straighten. 
I fastened the two beds together with 1/4" X 1" plate to hold the beds together which I had to shim. Underneath I put a piece of angle iron with a couple bolts to level the top of the beds. Mounted a long bar to the cross slide of the original lathe, mounted an indicator on the end and indicated the new bed. Got it to within a couple thousands both ways. 
Used some turn buckles and anchored both lathes to the wall of my shop.
	

		
			
		

		
	






	

		
			
		

		
	
i used this setup last week to machine some long shafts and worked great. Got the job done and now just waiting for payment. Somehow I think the pictures are sideways. Sorry about that. I'm having a terrible time posting photos.


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## Wierd Harold

Nice, looks like some of the odd rigs I come up with to get the job done.
By the way , when you click the pictures up to full size they straighten up fine.
HWF


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## wa5cab

Harold.

They don't straighten up on my machine (using Firefox).

Pops,

If your camera didn't come with any usable photo editing software, get a copy of IrfanView.  Just remember that after you rotate a JPG. you have to do an explicit SAVE before you close the file.  Unlike Acrobat (for PDF's), IrfanView doesn't ask whether you want to save before closing.

Robert D.


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