# South Bend 9... newbie... help!



## MikeManz

Im a new member and was giving a south bend 9 in trade for some things.. 
anyways it had a 1/3 hp motor that worked for like two days then it crapped out.. when it ran for a few days.. 
it seemed very weak and I had to get the chuck started with my hand to give it momentum.. I just put a 3/4 hp motor in it 
and now it cooks!!! but I dont know how to get it to a lower speed..? 
I know how to run a normal lathe...meaning a modern one.. but there are obviously some nuances that i havent figured out yet.. 
I cant seem to find a manual for it.. online.. Unless I buy one.. and I just spent $200 on a motor.. and $200 on a new tool post.. 
$30-$50 more for a manual is not gonna happen.. Im a machining student and I can't get enough of making things and working on manual machines. 
so Im quite happy to have this baby.. I just want to get her running correctly so I can continue projects at home that I can't do at school.. 
obviously I am limited by size.. but i still have a lathe... and that is nice.. 
can anyone help me with changing speeds? do I need to change gears ? I know how to move the belt over . I know how to move the chuck to 
make the head stock handle thing move to the thread setting I want to cut.. 
I'll say this before the 3/4 hp motor was installed I could only cut threads 32tpi - when I went to the other ones the lead screw would not turn
and I thought maybe since the lathe seemed underpowered that it might be why? Im sure you guys are reading this going "he's way off"
if I am please let me know.. thanks in advance for any help you guys can give me.. 
Not sure how to make pics thumbnails..? but I have several pics of the lathe..


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## pjf134

Mike,
 I am not too familar with the single tumbler gear box type, but on the two tumbler gear box I use a 1/2 HP motor with a 1725 rpm motor. A faster rpm motor will burn out the bearings as it was not made for the faster speeds. Make sure everything is getting oil before running it too much. Some guys on here will chime in I am sure to give some more insite on these older type lathes. When a lathe sits too long the felts gum up and does not allow oil to get thru, so if you want it too lasr be sure everything is working good before using. What most people do when getting a old lathe is tear it down and replace the felts at least and check everything else while at it. Some people on here have this type of lathe and will give some more advice, so ask questions and get used to the lathe and controls before getting too involved.
Paul


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## MikeManz

its not too late for me to switch to a 1/2hp motor.. I was under the impression that 3/4 was ok.. but I just hooked it up today to test... it. 
the motor is a single phase.. 1725rpm motor.. from tractor supply.. think i should go back and exchange it for the 1/2 they had? i have oiled the crap out of it..
but I dont know what you mean by the felts? is that where the oil container things have a little felt thing that "bleeds" the oil to the appropriate parts.?

- - - Updated - - -

i know what speeds and feeds to run different metal at... most.. not all but my question was how do I get the spindle speeds to change on this..

the 3/4hp motor on it now.. is 1725rpm motor... the 1/3hp motor on it that isnt working was 1725 rpm motor as well.. but the 3/4 hp motor has capacitator start which makes a big difference in my opinion..
anyways... 
we have acra lathes at school and those are a breeze to run and change gears and etc.. but Im not seeing much on how to change the spindle speeds on this one..


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## pjf134

Mike, The motor should be ok at 1725, but anything faster would not is what I was getting at. Look at Tubal Cain youtube videos to get more info on running a lathe. He demos different types so just pick South Bend ones. At most oil ports there is felts that absorb oil and release just a little at a time or else it would just run out. The top oilers on the headstock will leak oil faster and this is normal for that type, so make sure it gets oil often as it its considered a drip oiler type. The videos will answer some of your questions.
Paul


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## MikeManz

pjf134 said:


> Mike,  The motor should be ok at 1725, but anything faster would not is what I was getting at. Look at Tubal Cain youtube videos to get more info on running a lathe. He demos different types so just pick South Bend ones. At most oil ports there is felts that absorb oil and release just a little at a time or else it would just run out. The top oilers on the headstock will leak oil faster and this is normal for that type, so make sure it gets oil often as it its considered a drip oiler type.
> Paul



thank you....it means a lot... the lathe seems in really nice condition.. I just want to keep it running smoothly and use it to its fullest..


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## ScrapMetal

marinusdees said:


> Look for "How to Ru(i)n a Lathe" by South Bend Lathe Works on ebay or Amazon used books,  It should be available for about $10 and is the Bible for beginners.  Didn't change much in 50 years.  Great info not available anywhere else in such compact form.  Have fun, break things, make things, don't worry about making a mistake.  Anybody who has run a lathe has made mistakes.  It's like golf, the good ones learn how to get out of trouble.  Try to learn appropriate speeds for different materials by reading and by trying.  It's not rocket science witness the people in the business.  CNC machining, ah, that's a whole new ballgame!!!



"How to Run a Lathe" is available on this sites downloads section or I have a copy on one of my servers for download: http://www.arcaneiron.com/shovelhead/HowtoRunaLathe.pdf  It's a big file, about 155M but depending on your connection could go fairly quickly.

This book is almost a "must" for someone getting in to working with a lathe.

It will definitely help you with some of your questions,

Hope that helps,

-Ron


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## martik777

They are also here, only 9mb: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendmanual/files/  The yahoo group "southbendlathe" is a good source of info too. 

1/3HP should be plenty, my original 1945 9A motor is only 1/4 and works just fine. You should not have to give your chuck a spin to get started - How easily does it spin by hand in neutral? It should turn freely 1 or 2 revs.

If you are trying to save money, $200 is way too much for a common 1725rpm motor which can be had for $20 used.  If that 1/3hp motor had the instant reverse I'd try to fix it, may just need a start cap.


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## GK1918

As everyone said your new motor is fine.  Next you can get rid of that tin cover thats ???.  Looking at the belt on the pulleys; on the left is the highest  speed, the center is medium speed and the right is the lowest normal speed. It all depends what you are doing, but for the most part use the right lowest
belt pulley.  Then there are three more even lower speeds using the back gear.  You have to disengauge the headstock / Chuck by pulling a pin behind the chuck - rotate the chuck until you find it then pull it out, now see it the chuck free wheels, if so behind the headstock (Main shaft) you should see
the back gears, somewhere there should be a lever to engage it- sometimes you have to rock drive belt to mesh the gears.  Start it and now the chuck is
turning real slow, and moving the main drive belt gives the three speeds.  Dont forget when using back gears you have increased torque, hp, and all the
above to break something (some trucks have double low gears).   Later on you will be using back gears for threading.  Some things happen quickly so, you have to slow things down.  I hope this is the answer to you questions, but like automobiles and lathes are all the same they have the same controls
just maybe in a different place.  From the picture I cant see any of the belt with that mouse tin protector in the way. can you see my belts?  Its unclear your question about threading, thats another ballgame.  Threading; the gearing in the apron must be in neutral and using the half nut in conjunction with the chart and thread dial for threads you want to cut.


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## woodtickgreg

A few things I might add is do not change gears while under power, shut it off and rotate by hand to change gears or speeds etc. Fill all the oil cups daily with the appropriate oil. The motor you purchased will work just fine. Spending money with a lathe? What a surprise, LOL. We all do it, it's just part of it it seems. if your patient and frugal deals on parts and tooling can be had. search ebay too. As the others have said, playing with it is a good way to learn it. Down load that how to run a lathe book or just buy one, either way get it. Start saving money for your new addiction, your gonna need it. LOL
P.S. That's a good little lathe, once you get her tuned up and dialed in, and you figure out how she works, it will serve you well. Welcome to the club.


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## rafe

Ah the high cost of knowledge (or lack of) is not measured in dollars. I learned everything i could on basic operation before powering up my lathes then continued to learn as I went along...the back-gear procedures, lubrication, I got the "how to run a lathe" I also got the rebuild manual on the big 14 1/2 SB ....not only is it a good read, it will pay for itself on the crossfeed repair I'm doing right now ...actually it already has ...and I read any and everything I can on them, There is so much available on the net, Videos too
the lathe you have is a great lathe, but parts are pricey and a bad procedure on your part could easily break parts or worse...avoiding that will pay for the books ...just a good investment and resale item.Did i mention lubrication?? Drain out and flush out the old oil in the head stock and apron if it hasn't been done and replenish with the proper lubricants there is no knowing what is in there  and ...it's probably pretty nasty by now....I'd get a new set of felts for it too....especially if it's black sludge when you drain it
feel the bearing areas on the headstock after operating. They should remain relatively cool...that lathe if properly maintained will out live you, Good luck and Regards

PS asking here and on other South Bend sites will definately bring you up to speed on your old Southy


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## wa5cab

I moved the SB9 flat belt slippage question into a new thread.

The South Bend "How To Use A Lathe", like the Atlas "Manual of Lathe Operations", was revised and reprinted several times over the decades.  With downloads, it doesn't matter so much - you can always download a different one if you come across it.  But if spending good money on a hard copy, try to buy one printed during the years that your particular model was in production.  That way, some of the photographs and text has a better chance of showing or pertaining directly to your particular model.

Robert D.


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## MikeManz

I took the tin plate off (guard) and I found the pin on the gear that you release for either a back gear or something else..
I got the motor wired up and turning in the right direction... the manual for the motor says it can turn two ways.? does that mean I can wire the original toggle switch
that came on the lathe to make it turn forwards and reverse? its a just a single phase motor but again it says it can turn two directions.. 
havent had the motor hooked up since I fixed the wiring... well have to see how the gears work in getting this baby to turn slower.. I hope it works.. it sure is hard to turn threads at 1200rpm

thank you to all whom have chimed in. It is greatly appreciated.. I hope I didnt come off like a jerk who wants all the answers from a post.. and doesnt want to spend money..- I was just frustrated cause
I have spent a pretty penny to get this thing going and Im still not sure where Iam going yet... and $$ right now is tight - and I have a tuition bill due by aug 2 for 3k so $50 for a manual really does have to wait.. 
thanks to all and keep well. 
MM


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## martik777

You should be able to wire it up for rev with the existing switch.yes vns

Pull the pin out and engage the backgear to run in backgear mode, rotate by hand to see how it all works. 

1200 rpm?  The lowest speed should be approx 250rpm (smallest pulley on the spindle and motor).

With money being tight, I'd suggest being a little more resourceful before buying new parts. Most of the $400 already spent, could have been saved by sourcing a used motor or repairing the original and making your own toolpost.


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## AR1911

I looked at that PDf of "How to Run a Lathe" and it's an ancient version, probably 1920s, and predates your lathe (and mine).  I bought a reprint of a later edition which was correct for a 1950s era 9A.  Yours is likely from the 1930s. I don't know if there is a reprint that covers your exact model with the single tumbler. I haven't seen one in digital nor hardcopy.

Does your motor pully (and the matching driven pulley) have 2 different grooves? If so, you would have a total of 12 speeds, including back gears.

It's not uncommon for the spindle to be stuck and not release when you pull the backgear pin. Just fille that oil hole with light oil (ATF) and run it a bit with that pin pulled, and it will free up.

The correct oil for spindle and most of the other points is ISO 68, spindle oil, or 20W Non-detergent. for the home machinist almost any light oil will work until you find some spindle oil. I used ATF for years. Just use it generously.

Have fun!


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## wa5cab

Mike,

Basically, all single phase capacitor start AC motors can be made to start and run in either direction.  Some do not have the necessary wires to do that brought to the outside world and you have to disassemble the motor and add the wires if you want to be able to reverse it from an external switch.  But from what you wrote, yours has the necessary wires brought out.

However, not all ON-OFF switches are capable of being wired for FWD-OFF-REV.  Although a custom built switch could actually get by with fewer terminals (such switches are not normally built and would no doubt cost an arm and a leg as they would only be useful for one function), a switch capable of being wired to turn on and off a single phase motor and to run it in either direction will normally have at least 9 terminals to which you can attach wires.  If your switch has at least 9, it probably can be so wired.  But I have seen Chinese made switches with as many as 16 terminals that could not.  If you want to wire your motor for FWD-OFF-REV, post some photos and the make and model number of the switch if US made.

Keep in mind though that if (and I think it does) the SB 9 has a threaded spindle nose, you cannot safely turn, face or thread in reverse.

Also, on the subject of spindle speed, the QCGB has no affect on the spindle RPM.  The spindle drives it, not the other way 'round.  Spindle RPM changes are affected by either moving the belt(s) to different pulley conbinations or by engaging or disengaging the back gears (if an SB 9 has back gears).

Robert D



MikeManz said:


> I took the tin plate off (guard) and I found the pin on the gear that you release for either a back gear or something else..
> I got the motor wired up and turning in the right direction... the manual for the motor says it can turn two ways.? does that mean I can wire the original toggle switch
> that came on the lathe to make it turn forwards and reverse? its a just a single phase motor but again it says it can turn two directions..
> havent had the motor hooked up since I fixed the wiring... will have to see how the gears work in getting this baby to turn slower.. I hope it works.. it sure is hard to turn threads at 1200rpm
> 
> thank you to all whom have chimed in. It is greatly appreciated.. I hope I didnt come off like a jerk who wants all the answers from a post.. and doesnt want to spend money..- I was just frustrated cause
> I have spent a pretty penny to get this thing going and Im still not sure where Iam going yet... and $$ right now is tight - and I have a tuition bill due by aug 2 for 3k so $50 for a manual really does have to wait..
> thanks to all and keep well.
> MM


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## MikeManz

I found the back gears.. I was able to get it to a lower speed.. I understand what you guys mean by using the second pulley on the shaft of the motor.. I will post some pics of the forward reverse on/off switch 
I have.. its the original that came with the lathe.. new problem.. its seems as though the lathe is vibrating to the point that threading is bad.. and the threads I am cutting are all chopped up.. its not the tool
I can almost guarantee its the lathe.. maybe my gears are junky? or the surface in the garage is just uneven enough to be a problem... I did my best to make sure its sitting level.. but it seems to "bounce" so as to cause an issue with finish with turning and facing.. and Im using inserts that are new... I will post pics tomorrow.. thanks to all..


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## rafe

I use HSS to thread with the back gear ...I'm new to it so I like nice and slow ...Those carbides I think don't like slow and I hav not had good luck with them ....You may need to check your headstock bearings ...but I'd bet it's the carbide.....I am very happy using high speed steel for everything, Also work if sticking out more than a little (use judgement here) needs to be supported with a center or steadyrest or you will likely get the finish you describe


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## woodtickgreg

rafe said:


> I use HSS to thread with the back gear ...I'm new to it so I like nice and slow ...Those carbides I think don't like slow and I hav not had good luck with them ....You may need to check your headstock bearings ...but I'd bet it's the carbide.....I am very happy using high speed steel for everything, Also work if sticking out more than a little (use judgement here) needs to be supported with a center or steadyrest or you will likely get the finish you describe


+1 good advice.


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## GK1918

MikeManz said:


> I found the back gears.. I was able to get it to a lower speed.. I understand what you guys mean by using the second pulley on the shaft of the motor.. I will post some pics of the forward reverse on/off switch
> I have.. its the original that came with the lathe.. new problem.. its seems as though the lathe is vibrating to the point that threading is bad.. and the threads I am cutting are all chopped up.. its not the tool
> I can almost guarantee its the lathe.. maybe my gears are junky? or the surface in the garage is just uneven enough to be a problem... I did my best to make sure its sitting level.. but it seems to "bounce" so as to cause an issue with finish with turning and facing.. and Im using inserts that are new... I will post pics tomorrow.. thanks to all..


 
I am curious  "vibrating  / bounce gears junky?"  Are you saying the lathe is not sitting flat on the floor?  OK, jack up the right tailstock side in the middle of the two legs so it now sits on three legs, its now level. Try it. yes or no? With the belt on high better or worse. Better or worse running with no chuck?
Junky gears =they dont turn fast enough to be out of balance, i think the most gears can do, is to be noisy. Does it vibrate or bounce in back gears?
Mostly vibrations out of balance comes from something spinning fast not slow.  bad threading, issues with finish turning, you sure its not chatter?  As far as I know at least with my South Bends, they dont like inserts carbide all the new stuff.  Kind of like putting high test gas in a Model T. It does no good at all. all I can say the lathe should run like a top. And its just the case of tracking it down like vibrations in a car will drive ya!  For some reason I have allways played  "second fiddle".  Made short, a customer with 1 ton box truck (it went smooth as silk) but the driveshaft center bearing got a little loud, to he had that and a U joint replaced for $xxx bucks. Truck then shook like hell brought it back with no avail.  Then it comes here to the problem child.  Owner claims they just greased the origional bearing??  We took all apart, examined all and found "the big dollar rate shop" pressed the
center bearing probably with a big socket (on the outside race not on the press point) thus wrecking the bearing.  So I charged him 25 bucks plus a 
new bearing.  Should of came here in the first place.  Im trying to say, who knows what has been done to your lathe in the past.  So you have to think like a animal MD. Doctor who are the smartest:   Like animals and machines, the patients dont talk. With time and thought, you will figure it out. Just
remember it wasnt born with that condition.  Please get back with some findings, I am curious, something simple I bet.   Sam


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## AR1911

Carbide likes fast, deep hot cuts, which your SB does NOT like. Stick with high speed steel at least at first.
2nd and more likely is rigidity of your cutter setup. If you are using the original lantern post setup you need the least overhang possible.
Lastly, if using a lantern with carbide, the toolholders usually have a built in rake angle of 15 degrees, sometimes more. Carbide needs zero degrees. There are zero degree toolholders for carbide, but they are rare.

I would also add that not all steel machines alike. Some alloys are exceedingly difficult to machine, especially on older small equipment.


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## MikeManz

sorry for the delay on the pics... school and life is kicking my butt.. 
the cross slide moves.. meaning it can be shifted forwards and backwards.. a significant amount.. I think that is what was screwing up my threads.. 
I was using a carbide tipped brand new threading tool and they looked like crap.. so I figured out something was moving.. I dont know for certain the cross slide moves
while the lathe chuck turns but with minor pressure the base that the cross slide and compound sit on moves..do I need to take it apart and check the cross slide screw? there is a gap between the dial 
and the handle that you turn to adjust your tool in or out..


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## rafe

MikeManz said:


> sorry for the delay on the pics... school and life is kicking my butt..
> the cross slide moves.. meaning it can be shifted forwards and backwards.. a significant amount.. I think that is what was screwing up my threads..
> I was using a carbide tipped brand new threading tool and they looked like crap.. so I figured out something was moving.. I dont know for certain the cross slide moves
> while the lathe chuck turns but with minor pressure the base that the cross slide and compound sit on moves..do I need to take it apart and check the cross slide screw? there is a gap between the dial
> and the handle that you turn to adjust your tool in or out..



I had to replace my nut and replaced the screw too ....the bronze nut was worn out,the screw worn ... It's not hard to take apart to inspect.I had a lot and I mean a lot of backlash before the repair and then it failed completely when about half-way ....where it spent most of it's time....It was not hard to repair and there is almost 0 backlash ...I was able to tighten that (dial gap .022) gap with the repair.....there are some photos on cross feed not eating thread and that should give you an idea of the scope


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## MikeManz

anywhere you might see images of one being taken apart? or is it easier than I image and I just need to go for it? 
Im sure if I had a manual...i just have 10 other things requiring $$ at the moment.


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## AR1911

THE PM board has several long, detailed threads on SB9 restorations


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## martik777

Doesn't really matter how much backlash you have, once you take up the slack, it should cut without moving back unless your threads are totally thrashed.  I have about .020 slop in my crossfeed, measured by placing an indicator on the back end and shifting the cross slide back and forth. You can make a new acetal nut for next to nothing , google "acetal crossfeed nut"


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## fastback

The single tumbler system is made up of three parts. In order to get full use you need to use all three. When you look at the brass face plate you will notice that on the left side it will read left, center and right. This is for the top lever on the gear box. With the arm all the way to the right it will be at its slowest range. All the way to the left will be the fastest. I have found that it is easiest to engage while the lathe is running, but the clutch is disengaged. Others may disagree. There is no grind it just moves better when turning. 

You will also notice that the brass plate is broken into two sections. These sections are related to the sliding gear that you see on the end in the gear cover, Never try to move this while the lathe is running.  That would be instant destruction. You will note on the gearbox plate that there is an in and an out.  In is at a slower rate than when you pull it out.

As already indicated in other posts This is an early lathe. My heavy 10 is of 1942 and has the single tumbler. 

These old lathe will cut just as many threads as the two tumbler units. I think you have 48 different settings.

By the way I bought a copy of Southbend's "How to Run a Lathe" from the Vermont Precision Museum for $7.00. I bought it maybe 8 years ago and it is a 1942 version.


Hope this helps.


Paul


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