# Last time, I promise: PM-1228 or PM-1236??



## wachuko (Aug 16, 2021)

As some of you know, I placed an order for a PM-1228 on August 5th, 2021.

Now, I know... I started earlier last year (Jan 2020) asking about the small lathes just to start... bought nothing... then I asked about the PM1030 - bought nothing... then I asked about deciding between the 1030 and the 1130... and ended up ordering the PM-1228 - Here is that thread: PM-1030V or 1130V LATHE







But since I have to wait so long for the PM-1228 to arrive... it has given me time to rethink the decision. 

First of all... I do not wish to go any bigger... so please, do not waste your time telling me to go with the PM-1340GT .   Just not happening, .

So... questions that I have:

1. Should I switch to the PM-1236-PEP w/DRO?  I have several 220 volt outlets in the garage.  That will not be an issue...
2. What do I gain with the PM-1236 over the PM-1228?  Besides the obvious 8 inches between centers.
3. What do I lose with the PM-1236 over the PM-1228?
4. BXA (200 size) - QCTP on the PM-1236 over AXA (100 size) QCTP on the PM-1228 - any concerns with that?  Or that is just what it is required on the PM-1236?  Yes, I am searching and reading on this one... might find the answer with the search option.

This is what comes with the PM-1236:

PM-1236-PEP PRECISION 12″X36″ LATHE with 2axDRO
Welded Steel Stand
6″ 3 Jaw Chuck with Inside and Outside Jaws
8″ 4 Jaw Chuck with Reversible Jaws
10″ Face Plate
Steady Rest
Follow Rest
Back Splash Guard
Inch and Metric Threading Capability
Thread Chasing Dial
Complete Steel Base with Chip Pan
4 Way Tool Post
Dead Centers
Wedge Type Quick Change Tool Post Set with 5 Holders, (This set is BXA / 200 Size)
Clutch on Feed Rod, for use with Micrometer Carriage Stop *NEW*
Micrometer Carriage Stop
Foot Brake
Coolant System
L.E.D. Work Light
2 axis Digital Readout, Installed on the machine
And with these added items total comes to: US$6,001.96

BXA Master Turning/Boring Tool Set
1/8-5/8 Ultra Precision Keyless Drill Chuck MT3
8 - Leveling Pads
MT-3 Slim Body Live Center
Shipping and Liftgate Delivery

This is what comes with the PM-1228:


PM-1228VF-LB PRECISION 12″X28″ LATHE with 2axDRO
6″ 3 Jaw Chuck, Scroll Type
Brushless DC, Variable Speed Drive Motor
Variable Speed by Knob, new design
D1-4 Camlock Spindle Mount
Ready for our AXA Wedge Type Tool Post Set, (At additional cost)
Steady Rest
Follow Rest
Chip Pan
Back Splash Guard
Inch and Metric Threading Ability, with minimal change gears needed, 15 quick lever changes with each gear set
Thread Chasing Dial, with 8 markings, 32 Tooth gear, 8 TPI Leadscrew
Dead Centers
Misc. Tools for operation (Wrenches, etc)
Power Cross Feed, In, Out, Left, and Right Feed
Left Hand thread cutting with the flip of a lever
Large 1-1/2″ Spindle Bore


And with these added items total comes to: US$6,096.86

PM-1228VF-LB Stand
Wedge Quick Change Tool Post Set, AXA Size
AXA Master Turning/Boring Tool Set
MT-3 Slim Body Live Center
1/8-5/8 Ultra Precision Keyless Drill Chuck MT3
6" Precision 4 Jaw Lathe Chuck, D1-4 Mount
8 Leveling pads
Shipping and Liftgate Delivery

At the suggestion of a few folks, I will also add the ER-40 Adjustable Collet Chuck, and Collet sets, with the order.


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## Aukai (Aug 16, 2021)

You can put short things on a long lathe, it gets real tricky getting long things on a short lathe. I love my 1340


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## macmccaskie (Aug 16, 2021)

I have the PM1236T, I'm not sure what the PEP means so I'll pretend I know what I'm talking about , If you have the room and budget for the 36"- do it.  You'll get: more weight and a bit more stability, have that much more space for attachments like bigger chucks, drill chucks, long drill bits- etc, threading/tapping tools, the tail stock can be moved out of the way that much more.  The larger lathe will have better resale value when your kids sell it.
Remember, the attachments that come with the machine are for getting you going faster and can be upgraded if you want.  It's harder to upgrade the lathe features.  -Yes, I'm happy with it, but to be honest I do far more work on the Mill.


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## ttabbal (Aug 16, 2021)

I could swear the 1236 used to come with AXA stuff, but whatever, BXA is going to be more rigid and probably a useful upgrade. As the cost is similar, go with the 1236. It's tough to overstate the advantages rigidity provides. The 1236 is a heavier more rigid machine, a bigger difference than you might think. It also comes with the option to use coolant and a foot brake, which can be nice. And don't forget the included LED flashlight!! You need that!!!  

The gearbox is more complete I believe as well, so less need to mess with the change gears. Always nice. I don't think you really lose anything with the larger machine. Perhaps if you wanted to move it often? 

@Aukai I see a pile of chips. There's a lathe in there?!?  

I'm going to go duck the incoming scrap pieces from Hawaii.


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## macardoso (Aug 16, 2021)

12x36 for sure, if for no other reason than the weight.


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## wachuko (Aug 16, 2021)

macmccaskie said:


> I have the PM1236T, I'm not sure what the PEP means so I'll pretend I know what I'm talking about , If you have the room and budget for the 36"- do it.  You'll get: more weight and a bit more stability, have that much more space for attachments like bigger chucks, drill chucks, long drill bits- etc, threading/tapping tools, the tail stock can be moved out of the way that much more.  The larger lathe will have better resale value when your kids sell it.
> Remember, the attachments that come with the machine are for getting you going faster and can be upgraded if you want.  It's harder to upgrade the lathe features.  -Yes, I'm happy with it, but to be honest I do far more work on the Mill.



PEP  - Preferred Package With DRO 

Price wise is a wash between the two... I am really trying to figure out which of the two would be the best option.


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## macardoso (Aug 16, 2021)

Also, I don't have a PM, but AXA seems to be the recommended size for a 12x36. BXA is great unless it limits how low you can put bigger tools.


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## 7milesup (Aug 16, 2021)

So you mentioned about not bringing up the 1340GT.  I won't.  But I would get the Eisen 1440.  See how I did that?  Not a single mention about getting the 1340GT nor beating you up about it.  Nope.  Not a word.


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## jwmay (Aug 16, 2021)

There's a fellow on YouTube with an 8 part series I think, where he reviews the 1228. He had a friend who bought the 1236, and he gives a very comprehensive comparison between the two. I can't recall the name, but I remember when I saw it that his name rung a bell. I mean to say he's a professional in some field I've puttered around in. Give it a search. I think you'll be interested to hear what he has to say.


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## Winegrower (Aug 16, 2021)

I so much hate to see people spend over $6000 on these kind of lathes when there are so many good used real lathes around.
Yes they are around.   On Craigslist today there is a Hardinge HLV-H for that price.   You would like this SO much better.

Edit:  I was wrong.  It’s for $5000.


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## wachuko (Aug 16, 2021)

macardoso said:


> Also, I don't have a PM, but AXA seems to be the recommended size for a 12x36. BXA is great unless it limits how low you can put bigger tools.



That is why I was asking... so far, from what I have read, for installing a AXA I would need to mill a spacer to get it to the correct height.  The other benefits I have found are that the closer to the center of the compound the tool tip is the more rigid the setup will be. The AXA has the advantage there, as the BXA moves it farther to the left and forward.

But I do not know if PM would install the AXA instead... they have the BXA listed for the PM-1236, not the AXA...

You know me... complete newbie.  Asking away to make an informed decision.



jwmay said:


> There's a fellow on YouTube with an 8 part series I think, where he reviews the 1228. He had a friend who bought the 1236, and he gives a very comprehensive comparison between the two. I can't recall the name, but I remember when I saw it that his name rung a bell. I mean to say he's a professional in some field I've puttered around in. Give it a search. I think you'll be interested to hear what he has to say.



That must be Frank Hoose... let me see if I find that video.  I have been watching his 8 part series on the 1228...

EDIT:  Found it... it was the last video, reason why I had not seen it... was getting to it.  Currently on video #6... Let me take a look at that one now... Comparison starts at 7:08


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## macardoso (Aug 16, 2021)

wachuko said:


> That is why I was asking... so far, from what I have read, for installing a AXA I would need to mill a spacer to get it to the correct height. The other benefits I have found are that the closer to the center of the compound the tool tip is the more rigid the setup will be. The AXA has the advantage there, as the BXA moves it farther to the left and forward.
> 
> But I do not know if PM would install the AXA instead... they have the BXA listed for the PM-1236, not the AXA...
> 
> You know me... complete newbie. Asking away to make an informed decision.


It is all about the height from the top of the compound to the centerline of the spindle. If the toolpost is too small, a riser needs to be added and you should have bought a bigger one. If the toolpost is too big, the meatier tool holders add extra height below the tool (not counting the larger tools themselves) and you find that you are limited in the size of tools you can put in and still adjust the top below centerline.

The height should be published by the toolpost manufacturer. Shars AXA wedge post for example:





Now there is a lot of overlap on the BXA





But I know on my Enco 110-2033 (Grizzly G9249 equivalent), the compound to spindle centerline is something like an 1.25". The AXA is perfect and a BXA would have been too big. If I have to use a 5/8" tool, I mill the bottom of the tool down by 1/8".


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## wachuko (Aug 16, 2021)

Okay... let me call the folks at Precision Matthews...


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## wachuko (Aug 16, 2021)

Done!

Went with the PM-1236-PEP PRECISION 12″X36″ LATHE with 2axDRO- this includes the following:

Welded Steel Stand
6″ 3 Jaw Chuck with Inside and Outside Jaws
8″ 4 Jaw Chuck with Reversible Jaws
10″ Face Plate
Steady Rest
Follow Rest
Back Splash Guard
Inch and Metric Threading Capability
Thread Chasing Dial
Complete Steel Base with Chip Pan
4 Way Tool Post
Dead Centers
Wedge Type Quick Change Tool Post Set with 5 Holders, (This set is BXA / 200 Size)
Clutch on Feed Rod, for use with Micrometer Carriage Stop *NEW*
Micrometer Carriage Stop
Foot Brake
Coolant System
L.E.D. Work Light
2 axis Digital Readout, Installed on the machine
And with these added items/accessories :

BXA Master Turning/Boring Tool Set - they assured me that this was the correct one for my lathe...
1/8-5/8 Ultra Precision Keyless Drill Chuck MT3
8 - Leveling Pads
MT-3 Slim Body Live Center
ER-40 Adjustable Collet Chuck, D1-4 Mount
15 Pc Precision Inch ER-40 Collet Set, 1/8″ to 1″
Shipping and Liftgate Delivery
If I did the math correctly, the new total came to: US$6,401.87 .  They are sending me all updated documents/sales order in a few minutes... Done! Finito! No mas!

Thank you all again for your comments!


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## wachuko (Aug 16, 2021)

Winegrower said:


> I so much hate to see people spend over $6000 on these kind of lathes when there are so many good used real lathes around.
> Yes they are around.   On Craigslist today there is a Hardinge HLV-H for that price.   You would like this SO much better.
> 
> Edit:  I was wrong.  It’s for $5000.



I understand... but being a newbie, and not having someone close by to guide me on the purchased of used equipment... I just do not want to have to worry about buying used and trying to figure out if something is missing, broke, or whatnot...


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## ttabbal (Aug 16, 2021)

Used gear can be great, but it can also be junk. You need to be able to tell the difference if you want to go that way. Even the best brand can be abused and worn out. New import can have issues as well, but a good vendor like PM will help you out if something is wrong. And there are likely other people here that own them, we can sometimes help as well. 

Even a little experience on a lathe can help you a lot when looking for other machines. I was able to diagnose a Bridgeport mill as being dirty but in overall good shape. After a lot of work cleaning it up, it works great for me. Around here, I've seen a decent priced lathe in good condition maybe once a year. Most of them are left outdoors and likely rusted into a single solid mass. And still listed for $3k+. A couple others a year that look like the seller cleaned and painted them to "flip" them. They look nice in the photos, but have wear on the ways up by the chuck when they show photos there. 

Some other areas have a lot of machines to choose from. Those areas might be better served by going used.


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## Aukai (Aug 16, 2021)

Living where I do, I won't mess with a used machine, I understand.....


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## wachuko (Aug 16, 2021)

Glad I did this today... price for the PM-1236 had gone up another 300.00... but the website was not updated.  They honored the pricing on the website and adjusted the invoice accordingly.


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## matthewsx (Aug 16, 2021)

Congrats, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

Different machine but my Samson (Tida) 12x36 I have both an AXA and a BXA toolpost and both look like they will work.

John


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## wachuko (Aug 16, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> Congrats, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.
> 
> Different machine but my Samson (Tida) 12x36 I have both an AXA and a BXA toolpost and both look like they will work.
> 
> John



Thank you.  I will see what it would take to install the AXA tool holder and go with that... seems all the holders and tools for the AXA are less expensive as well... Since I will be using this just to learn and as a hobby, I do not see the need to buy those big cutters... 

At least that is what I am thinking for now... who knows in a few years...


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## matthewsx (Aug 16, 2021)

The good thing about tools is you can use them to make tools to fix/setup your tools 

I don't even have my QCTP setup yet, am currently using the lantern toolpost that came with the machine. There actually are cases when you might want one of those too....

John


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## mksj (Aug 16, 2021)

Sounds like a good choice, might consider going with a BXA, there is a wider selection of 5/8" tooling and it will accommodate the next size up insert which is more common, so CCMT 32.51, WNMG inserts, 5/8" knurlers, etc. There is also some extra rigidity, cost difference should be nominal.


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## maspann (Aug 16, 2021)

Alright now, don't start asking questions and making me second guess my decision - I ordered a PM-1236-T last month. I did a fair amount of research and settled on the 1236 for space reasons in my shop, the weight of the machine and the Precision Matthews reputation. I have looked at a lot of old iron and while there are some good ones out there, it's a bit of a gamble on the condition. With the PM, I could order it with the options I wanted. Also, their sales folks were very helpful.

As for the AXA -vs- the BXA, I asked about that. With the PM-1236-T the height from the top of the compound to the center line of the spindle is too large for AXA.


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## wachuko (Aug 16, 2021)

maspann said:


> Alright now, don't start asking questions and making me second guess my decision - I ordered a PM-1236-T last month. I did a fair amount of research and settled on the 1236 for space reasons in my shop, the weight of the machine and the Precision Matthews reputation. I have looked at a lot of old iron and while there are some good ones out there, it's a bit of a gamble on the condition. With the PM, I could order it with the options I wanted. Also, their sales folks were very helpful.
> 
> As for the AXA -vs- the BXA, I asked about that. With the PM-1236-T the height from the top of the compound to the center line of the spindle is too large for AXA.



No worries... you are all set.  All good.  It just took me longer to get to where you are


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## Aaron_W (Aug 17, 2021)

wachuko said:


> PEP  - Preferred Package With DRO
> 
> Price wise is a wash between the two... I am really trying to figure out which of the two would be the best option.



I'm a small lathe guy so I'm not all that familiar with the differences between the 1228 abd 1236, but it is my impression that the 1236 is a better lathe in general.

Based on the cost alone being so close unless space is an issue, I'd go with the 1236. Even if they are otherwise identical you get 8" more lathe.

I went with the 17" Sherline for my first lathe. I have never needed the full 17" but many times I have found the 8" would have been too short, so no regrets on my part.


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## wachuko (Aug 17, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> I'm a small lathe guy so I'm not all that familiar with the differences between the 1228 and 1236, but it is my impression that the 1236 is a better lathe in general.
> 
> Based on the cost alone being so close unless space is an issue, I'd go with the 1236. Even if they are otherwise identical you get 8" more lathe.
> 
> I went with the 17" Sherline for my first lathe. I have never needed the full 17" but many times I have found the 8" would have been too short, so no regrets on my part.



I had been trying to decide on one.  As you know, I wanted to start with a small one just to learn the ropes.  But then I start reading, getting feedback from folks like you... Then I get to watch lots of videos and see the use given and the comments from the owners on the added complexity/time needed to change gears to do this or that...

The PM-1030 would have been perfect for me to start... but what if?  What if I got the bug really good and wanted to do a few more things... going for approximately 4K (PM1030) to 5K (PM1130) and then to 6K (PM1236) was not going to keep food from the table or my kids from college... And seems this PM-1236 provides some additional ease of use when it comes to gear changes, chucks swap, and such.  I like that it has a feed rod with a clutch so I can use a micrometer carriage stop, and I knew I wanted DRO on anything else that I bought...

Not sure if you noticed what I am doing there... hahahahaha... reassuring myself that I made the right decision listening to you guys... So I do not go back to the PM-1030


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## rabler (Aug 17, 2021)

Once you get it in and start using it, you'll not regret it.


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## macardoso (Aug 17, 2021)

You'll love the 12x36. Gives you a lot of room to grow. Easy to add features, hard to add iron.


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## Aaron_W (Aug 17, 2021)

wachuko said:


> I had been trying to decide on one.  As you know, I wanted to start with a small one just to learn the ropes.  But then I start reading, getting feedback from folks like you... Then I get to watch lots of videos and see the use given and the comments from the owners on the added complexity/time needed to change gears to do this or that...
> 
> The PM-1030 would have been perfect for me to start... but what if?  What if I got the bug really good and wanted to do a few more things... going for approximately 4K (PM1030) to 5K (PM1130) and then to 6K (PM1236) was not going to keep food from the table or my kids from college... And seems this PM-1236 provides some additional ease of use when it comes to gear changes, chucks swap, and such.  I like that it has a feed rod with a clutch so I can use a micrometer carriage stop, and I knew I wanted DRO on anything else that I bought...
> 
> Not sure if you noticed what I am doing there... hahahahaha... reassuring myself that I made the right decision listening to you guys... So I do not go back to the PM-1030


 
I was sure I only needed that little Sherline lathe, and maybe a mill. For what I got into this for, making model parts, those machines are still a great choice and still get used for that. 

I was buying some tools to to meet a need, what I hadn't expected was for machining and the machines themselves to become a hobby of its own as you can see in my growing list below.


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## matthewsx (Aug 17, 2021)

macardoso said:


> You'll love the 12x36. Gives you a lot of room to grow. Easy to add features, hard to add iron.



"Easy to add features, hard to add iron."

Truer words have never been spoken....

John


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## Cletus (Aug 18, 2021)

I've found out, the day you buy a mill or lathe, a job comes in and you wish you've bought a bigger machine
15-years ago I bought a Grizzly 9x20 lathe and Mini-mill. Did tons of profitable work on those. Eventually CNC modified the mini. Now I really need a knee mill. The lathe I will have to live with, no more room!


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## Ischgl99 (Aug 18, 2021)

maspann said:


> As for the AXA -vs- the BXA, I asked about that. With the PM-1236-T the height from the top of the compound to the center line of the spindle is too large for AXA.



Precision Matthews told you an AXA would not fit on a 1236T?  I have an AXA sized toolholder on my 1236T and it fits perfectly.


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## wachuko (Aug 18, 2021)

Ischgl99 said:


> Precision Matthews told you an AXA would not fit on a 1236T?  I have an AXA sized toolholder on my 1236T and it fits perfectly.



Not what he said, not what they told me either... AXA fits but the height is not optimal and a spacer would need to be made to get it to the correct height...   At least that is what I was informed by PM.

Can you share a photo of your setup?


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## Ischgl99 (Aug 18, 2021)

Here is a couple photos, one with a 1/2” toolholder, and one with 3/8”.  This is a Chinese 250-100, so I don’t know how it would compare to an Aloris or Dorian as far as height.  If you use 1/4” tools, it might be on the short side, but I rarely use anything that small.


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## Aukai (Aug 19, 2021)

It's possible that the AXA, and BXA are right at the centerline threshold both ways. By BXA cut off blade holder was several thousandths low in the BXA holder for the 1340, and I milled the top to bring it up.


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## Christianstark (Aug 19, 2021)

I think AXA and BXA are both fine for the machine, but BXA will give you greater flexibility when it comes to tool sizes and indexable tooling inserts. This is what I have read only, and have 0 experience.

I don't think it is a huge deal either way. I'd go BXA personally but WTH do I know?


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## wachuko (Aug 19, 2021)

Thank you guys.  More at ease now with the BXA that comes with the lathe then... Will stick with that for now.

Now...is it normal to be looking at knurling tools and knurling videos like it was porn?  Man!  I want to do some knurling... hahahahahahhaha. 






I am trying hard not buy any tools until the lathe is here... trying...  ..must...hold...on...  I did get The Amateur's Lathe book by L.H. Sparey... reading that to calm me down, lol...


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## macardoso (Aug 19, 2021)

wachuko said:


> Thank you guys.  More at ease now with the BXA that comes with the lathe then... Will stick with that for now.
> 
> Now...is it normal to be looking at knurling tools and knurling videos like it was porn?  Man!  I want to do some knurling... hahahahahahhaha.
> 
> ...


A tool post, 3-Jaw chuck, 4-jaw chuck, a live center, couple turning tools and boring bars, and a couple indicators will keep you busy for a long time.


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## Cletus (Aug 19, 2021)

"I am trying hard not buy any tools until the lathe is here..."   Resistance is futile my brother!


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## Aukai (Aug 19, 2021)

I have the Eagle Rock scissors knurling tool.


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## Christianstark (Aug 19, 2021)

Hell…a machine level and a wrench, som wd40 and rags will keep you busy for a long time


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## wachuko (Aug 19, 2021)

Aukai said:


> I have the Eagle Rock scissors knurling tool.



and I only have US$5.00 in my pocket . I have that Eagle Rock Tech No K1-44 on my wish list... maybe in a few years I will get one.  Will keep my eyes open on the used market as well... 

I will play with one of the cheap ones first... had to order one... the one I ordered was only 40.00... I know it is silly on my part, but I really want to make some knobs with knurling on them


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## Cletus (Aug 19, 2021)

My mill is still in the US, and the amount of stuff I bought for it over the last two months, is insane!


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## wachuko (Aug 19, 2021)

Cletus said:


> My mill is still in the US, and the amount of stuff I bought for it over the last two months, is insane!


Side note, man I miss my trips to Trinidad... the people and the food... And barely remember a few times a business trip took me there a few days before carnival, hahahaha


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## yota (Aug 19, 2021)

I have a makita hammer drill and ruined the keyless chuck knurling drilling in a concrete recess when it was up against the concrete.  took the knurling right off.  chuck was basically useless until I put it on my lathe and re-did the knurling.  better than before now.


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## Ischgl99 (Aug 19, 2021)

wachuko said:


> and I only have US$5.00 in my pocket . I have that Eagle Rock Tech No K1-44 on my wish list... maybe in a few years I will get one.  Will keep my eyes open on the used market as well...
> 
> I will play with one of the cheap ones first... had to order one... the one I ordered was only 40.00... I know it is silly on my part, but I really want to make some knobs with knurling on them



I’m building the knurling tool on Tom’s Techniques, I don’t like the bump style I have, but it did get me through a few projects.









						CLAMP KNURLING TOOL
					






					tomstechniques.com


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## Ischgl99 (Aug 19, 2021)

Christianstark said:


> I think AXA and BXA are both fine for the machine, but BXA will give you greater flexibility when it comes to tool sizes and indexable tooling inserts. This is what I have read only, and have 0 experience.
> 
> I don't think it is a huge deal either way. I'd go BXA personally but WTH do I know?


I am using an AXA because I already had it from my previous lathe, but I probably would have gone with a BXA for the flexibility if I had to purchase from scratch.


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## matthewsx (Aug 19, 2021)

I have both an AXA and BXA, tonight I mounted the BXA and it worked great.







It's not a PM but it is 12 x 36

John


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## Aaron_W (Aug 20, 2021)

Also need to remember the actual swing of a lathe is rarely exactly the same as the nominal swing.. It is not all uncommon to see the actual swing as much as 3/4" over or under size. I have a 10" lathe that in reality has an 11-1/8" swing.

I don't know the actual measurements of the PM lathes but if the actual swing of the 1228 was say 11-3/4" and the 1236 was actually 12-1/8" that could easily account for their recommending different sizes of QCTP for 2 different 12" lathes.


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## wachuko (Aug 22, 2021)

So giving up variable speed is not a big deal?


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## Aaron_W (Aug 22, 2021)

wachuko said:


> So giving up variable speed is not a big deal?




Variable speed DC motors like the 1228 are very nice because you just turn a knob like a dimmer switch, but I don't think changing speed on a gear head lathe like the 1236 is a big deal.

I don't have a gear head lathe, but from my understanding it is much simpler than dealing with belts for speed changes, you are just turning knobs. If you had to choose between variable speed or changing belts that would be something worth giving good consideration to.


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## matthewsx (Aug 23, 2021)

wachuko said:


> So giving up variable speed is not a big deal?


I just ordered an appropriately sized 3 phase motor for mine, what @Aaron_W says about gear head machines is definitely true. Since mine has belts and a back gear for really slow speeds I'll switch over to the 3 phase w/VFD for complete flexibility. 

John


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## ttabbal (Aug 23, 2021)

wachuko said:


> So giving up variable speed is not a big deal?



Not really in this case, no. The 1236 has easy speed adjustment. Perhaps not as easy as a dimmer knob, but good enough. And if the choice is between the options for this thread, the larger, heavier, more rigid machine is well worth dropping the speed for. And you can swap to a 3 phase motor and VFD or a DC motor with a controller for the full variable speed later. You can't add iron.


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## fursphere (Aug 24, 2021)

Went through this myself earlier this year.    Started by choosing a 10-30, then an 11-27, then a 12-28 because the 11-27 was back ordered, then finally got the 12-36 PEP.    Its a nice machine. Way more than I need, but that's kind of the idea.  Get the cast iron 'heavy duty' base.  

I will say the the 12-36 is on the very end of the "what kind of hassle do I want to go through to move this thing" scale.  I ended up buying a pallet jack to move the crate around when it arrived, as I was right in the middle of moving to a new home.   Setting it up - I used a harbor freight 2 ton engine hoist w/ lifting straps.  And I felt that was pretty much maxed out.   And its a two person job to be sure.  So just know what you're getting into with eyes wide open.  

and be prepared to drop more cash on tooling right away.  It just adds up so quickly.   lol


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## wachuko (Aug 24, 2021)

fursphere said:


> Went through this myself earlier this year.    Started by choosing a 10-30, then an 11-27, then a 12-28 because the 11-27 was back ordered, then finally got the 12-36 PEP.    Its a nice machine. Way more than I need, but that's kind of the idea.  Get the cast iron 'heavy duty' base.
> 
> I will say the the 12-36 is on the very end of the "what kind of hassle do I want to go through to move this thing" scale.  I ended up buying a pallet jack to move the crate around when it arrived, as I was right in the middle of moving to a new home.   Setting it up - I used a harbor freight 2 ton engine hoist w/ lifting straps.  And I felt that was pretty much maxed out.   And its a two person job to be sure.  So just know what you're getting into with eyes wide open.
> 
> and be prepared to drop more cash on tooling right away.  It just adds up so quickly.   lol



The cast iron HD base is out of stock... could not add it to the order when I called.  I just checked, still shows "Out of stock" 

I have one of those HF engine hoist... will look into renting a pallet jack to move the crate around during setup.


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## lphoto (Oct 29, 2021)

I bought the 1228 which is plenty for what I'm going to do.  I did a ton of research and I found that everyone that owned the 1228 was extremely satisfied with it.  Mine took 6 months to arrive (got here last week) and it is still in the shipping crate until tomorrow. I did the exact same thing you did and in my case, the pricing was different at the time, which saved some money. My main concern was the difference in weight and that it needed 220.  I don't have 220 in my shop (don't need it) and the 1000# weight really turned me against the 1236.  Plus, there were a lot of things that I just didn't need, including the coolant portion of it.

Frank Hoose has series on YouTube about the 1228 and is what finally convinced me I had made the correct decision. Plus, two others contacted me that had just gotten the 1228 (one was a machinist by trade) and there were no negatives from either of them. You can also look up a guy on YouTube that uses Koba (???) as his screen name.


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## fursphere (Oct 29, 2021)

lphoto said:


> I bought the 1228 which is plenty for what I'm going to do.  I did a ton of research and I found that everyone that owned the 1228 was extremely satisfied with it.  Mine took 6 months to arrive (got here last week) and it is still in the shipping crate until tomorrow. I did the exact same thing you did and in my case, the pricing was different at the time, which saved some money. My main concern was the difference in weight and that it needed 220.  I don't have 220 in my shop (don't need it) and the 1000# weight really turned me against the 1236.  Plus, there were a lot of things that I just didn't need, including the coolant portion of it.
> 
> Frank Hoose has series on YouTube about the 1228 and is what finally convinced me I had made the correct decision. Plus, two others contacted me that had just gotten the 1228 (one was a machinist by trade) and there were no negatives from either of them. You can also look up a guy on YouTube that uses Koba (???) as his screen name.


I had the same concern about the weight.   The 1236 is about the max I'd want my harbor freight engine hoist to pickup without some structure upgrades.   But at the end of the day - I can't pickup a 1030, 1127, 1228 or a 1236 without an engine hoist, so it was a wash for me.   
I wouldn't go any bigger without a significantly better lifting system though.


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## Christianstark (Oct 29, 2021)

fursphere said:


> I had the same concern about the weight.   The 1236 is about the max I'd want my harbor freight engine hoist to pickup without some structure upgrades.   But at the end of the day - I can't pickup a 1030, 1127, 1228 or a 1236 without an engine hoist, so it was a wash for me.
> I wouldn't go any bigger without a significantly better lifting system though.


Wish me luck lifting my 1340 with a HF hoist!  ;-p


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## wachuko (Oct 29, 2021)

lphoto said:


> I bought the 1228 which is plenty for what I'm going to do.  I did a ton of research and I found that everyone that owned the 1228 was extremely satisfied with it.  Mine took 6 months to arrive (got here last week) and it is still in the shipping crate until tomorrow. I did the exact same thing you did and in my case, the pricing was different at the time, which saved some money. My main concern was the difference in weight and that it needed 220.  I don't have 220 in my shop (don't need it) and the 1000# weight really turned me against the 1236.  Plus, there were a lot of things that I just didn't need, including the coolant portion of it.
> 
> Frank Hoose has series on YouTube about the 1228 and is what finally convinced me I had made the correct decision. Plus, two others contacted me that had just gotten the 1228 (one was a machinist by trade) and there were no negatives from either of them. You can also look up a guy on YouTube that uses Koba (???) as his screen name.



TheKoba49, yes, I watched his videos as well... at the end of the day, for me, both being just about the same price, I went with the 1236... I have 220 single phase in the garage of the new house.  I asked for several 220 outlets because I knew I needed one for the air compressor, one for the stove (powder coating), and in case I needed more for something else.  That was a good thing because I could make my decision independent of voltage required.












Getting it in the garage is also not going to be an issue... long, fairly flat, driveway...  I decided not to put it in the future detached garage/workshop that I hope to build next year...  Figured I would use it more if it was closer....  Plus I did not wanted to get it all dirty from any other work that I did in the workshop...  The VW, all the car projects really, and motorcycles would be in the workshop...We just finished the shed for all the gardening stuff... So that single bay garage side would be my area for the lathes, mill/s, and a stove a friend gave me... And for the first time in 30 years, my wife is looking forward to parking her car inside the garage... 

I will not lie, I still go back and forth but hold my self from making anymore changes.... the wait is a PITA because it gives me time to second guess my decision... I still go to craigslist and see these used ones and think of cancelling the order and getting something locally used (something I was against at first and not so much now...)   Imagine all the additional tools I can buy with the $$ money saved...


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## matthewsx (Oct 29, 2021)

Christianstark said:


> Wish me luck lifting my 1340 with a HF hoist!  ;-p



I have moved a 13x40 with the smaller HF hoist, shouldn't be a problem as long as you aren't extending it all the way out.

John


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## wachuko (Oct 29, 2021)

Christianstark said:


> Wish me luck lifting my 1340 with a HF hoist!  ;-p


That is one sweet lathe... 

I could not muster the courage and $$ to go for that one...  Not because of lack of folks here trying to push me gently into getting one  

Heck, I started with a 2K budget... then 4K then 6K.... That 1340 would have taken me to the 10K range... I need to build the shop first.  Plus I really do not see myself needing anything larger than 11x30... the 12x36 was already a stretch.   I just want to play in the garage....


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## Christianstark (Oct 29, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> I have moved a 13x40 with the smaller HF hoist, shouldn't be a problem as long as you aren't extending it all the way out.
> 
> John


I have the bigger one. Good to have some fudge strength!


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## Christianstark (Oct 29, 2021)

wachuko said:


> That is one sweet lathe...
> 
> I could not muster the courage and $$ to go for that one...  Not because of lack of folks here trying to push me gently into getting one
> 
> Heck, I started with a 2K budget... then 4K then 6K.... That 1340 would have taken me to the 10K range... I need to build the shop first.  Plus I really do not see myself needing anything larger than 11x30... the 12x36 was already a stretch.   I just want to play in the garage....


Was lucky enough to order before the price increase...but yeah, it is an investment for sure.


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## wachuko (Oct 29, 2021)

Christianstark said:


> Was lucky enough to order before the price increase...but yeah, it is an investment for sure.


So many attachment for that one.  You choose wisely, even it has taken forever to arrive.  The option of the 5C lever type collet closer, taper attachment, etc...  Trust me, the temptation was there...  You will enjoy that puppy.


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## Christianstark (Oct 29, 2021)

wachuko said:


> So many attachment for that one.  You choose wisely, even it has taken forever to arrive.  The option of the 5C lever type collet closer, taper attachment, etc...  Trust me, the temptation was there...  You will enjoy that puppy.


I am excited for sure. Did not go with a collet closer or taper attachment on this order, but I dod opt for the ER40 Chuck.


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## Larry$ (Oct 29, 2021)

I also looked for over a year for a used lathe. I think you made a good choice. The BAX tool holders can use any size tooling up to 5/8". For HSS tools I will often use smaller, 3/8" as long as I don't need a lot of stick out. It is a lot faster to grind a 3/8 than a 5/8.  If you find a bargain pile of 3/4" tools you can buy the X model tool holders that fit the BAX tool post. Shars sells them.

Prices have sure gone up!
I bought a PM1440HD, 3 hp. 5 years ago, time flies. It was about the same price as your 1236! But you need some serious lifting means. The 1440 with cast iron base weighs about 3,000#. I've got a corner of my business building where we have loading docks, a 5,000# fork lift & 3 phase power. For a home shop single phase should do fine. Have fun!


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## Cletus (Oct 29, 2021)

wachuko said:


> TheKoba49, yes, I watched his videos as well... at the end of the day, for me, both being just about the same price, I went with the 1236... I have 220 single phase in the garage of the new house.  I asked for several 220 outlets because I knew I needed one for the air compressor, one for the stove (powder coating), and in case I needed more for something else.  That was a good thing because I could make my decision independent of voltage required.
> 
> View attachment 383527
> 
> ...


Sweet projects you've got there. Hey, I always wanted a Radio Flyer too!


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## Jason812 (Oct 30, 2021)

Aukai said:


> You can put short things on a long lathe, it gets real tricky getting long things on a short lathe. I love my 1340


Did you just cut the middle out and slide a box in?  If so, have you noticed any adverse side effects from not having the 2 ends connected?


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## StevSmar (Nov 5, 2021)

I did a special order on a 24” bed PM-1236T, I’m glad I didn’t order the 36” bed as that would have been way too big for my workshop.


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## wachuko (Nov 17, 2021)

Man... reading the threads with some quality issues on this PM1236 has me worried... 

Thinking of cancelling the order... I know, I know... It is a Chinese lathe and for the price point (compared to other brands), it is what it is... 

But I wonder if I should just wait another year to save up for the 1236T... at which point I would be better off going with the 1340GT for a few hundred dollars more...  sigh....


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## woodchucker (Nov 17, 2021)

StevSmar said:


> I did a special order on a 24” bed PM-1236T, I’m glad I didn’t order the 36” bed as that would have been way too big for my workshop.


I have a 36" bed on my SB 9.. and it has been too short many times. When I have been asked to fix things for people, you never know what you are getting.  In general I would say 24 would be way to short for my needs..  I wish I had a 12 or 14 Inch lathe too. but I'm in the basement, so limited by what I can get down , and back up there.


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## Christianstark (Nov 17, 2021)

@wachuko here are some recent pics to further cloud your purchasing judgement...Just kidding! Which ever machine you go with, you will have a blast! I think at the beginning of this year, the 1340GT was the price/performance sweet spot, but the prices have surged. When is yours slated to be stateside?


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## wachuko (Nov 17, 2021)

Yeah, I have been following your thread, no need to rub it in hahahahahhahaha 

I have not called them to check... when I placed the order (back in August), I was told around January...

I have been going over the numbers here... trying to see how I can make this work... I don't need DRO on the lathe... A must on the mill...   At least I do not need it right away on the lathe... maybe look to adding that at a later time...

PM-1340GT 13"X40" ULTRA PRECISION LATHE    $9,143.91   !!  
    PM-1340GT Lathe – PM-1340GT-PEP-1PH  
    PM-1340GT HEAVY WELDED STEEL STAND
    MICROMETER CARRIAGE STOP
    WEDGE QUICK CHANGE TOOL POST SET, BXA SIZE           
    8" HIGH PRECISION 4 JAW LATHE CHUCK, D1-4 MOUNT
    1/8-5/8 ULTRA PRECISION KEYLESS DRILL CHUCK MT3 
    BXA MASTER TURNING/BORING TOOL SET           
    MT-3 SLIM BODY LIVE CENTER           
    ER-40 ADJUSTABLE COLLET CHUCK, D1-4 MOUNT           
    5-C ADJUSTABLE COLLET CHUCK, D1-4 MOUNT

That is 3K more than the Chinese built PM1236...  That is what I want to spend on a used knee mill...

I think it is cheaper to stop reading the threads and stay with what I ordered 

Still thinking... still thinking...


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## Steve-F (Nov 17, 2021)

Maybe just stick with plan A and spend some time on it figuring out what you really need,especially since it's on the way, and also get the mill. Down the road  if you still think you need a bigger one , cut the other one loose and move on to the larger one OR find used big lathe down road and keep Both!!


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## wachuko (Nov 17, 2021)

Steve-F said:


> Maybe just stick with plan A and spend some time on it figuring out what you really need,especially since it's on the way, and also get the mill. Down the road  if you still think you need a bigger one , cut the other one loose and move on to the larger one OR find used big lathe down road and keep Both!!


Yes... will stick to plan A... That is $$ that can go to the mill... which I want even more than a larger lathe at this moment...


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## wachuko (Nov 17, 2021)

@Steve-F - side comment... have you seen Odis thread over in Garage Journal?


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## Steve-F (Nov 17, 2021)

No I haven't , but now I'm going to have too!! Thanks for the tip!!!


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## Aaron_W (Nov 17, 2021)

wachuko said:


> Man... reading the threads with some quality issues on this PM1236 has me worried...
> 
> Thinking of cancelling the order... I know, I know... It is a Chinese lathe and for the price point (compared to other brands), it is what it is...
> 
> But I wonder if I should just wait another year to save up for the 1236T... at which point I would be better off going with the 1340GT for a few hundred dollars more...  sigh....



Not to cause you more dithering but you've got the 9x20 to play with now. Not an ideal machine but it is capable and gives you something to learn and practice with. You seem to be enjoying the idea of working on older machines.

The 1236 is plenty big enough for the average home shop guy, and it seems to be a good lathe overall. On the other hand for the price, given some time you could easily find yourself a used lathe of at least equal capacity, and likely larger for about 1/2 the money, but a larger investment in time. With a budget of $4000 you could easily wind up with a nice vintage 15" or 16" lathe if you wanted to go that large.

Do you need the 1236 now, or can you get along with the 9x20 while you hunt for a long term lathe? 
Nobody likes to back out after placing an order but with the long waiting lists on machines I don't think backing out hurts PM, somebody else will just get their lathe a little sooner. 

If you stick with the current plan I doubt you will be disappointed with the 1236, but vintage machines do have a lot more character...


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## wachuko (Nov 17, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> Not to cause you more dithering but you've got the 9x20 to play with now. Not an ideal machine but it is capable and gives you something to learn and practice with. You seem to be enjoying the idea of working on older machines.
> 
> The 1236 is plenty big enough for the average home shop guy, and it seems to be a good lathe overall. On the other hand for the price, given some time you could easily find yourself a used lathe of at least equal capacity, and likely larger for about 1/2 the money, but a larger investment in time. With a budget of $4000 you could easily wind up with a nice vintage 15" or 16" lathe if you wanted to go that large.
> 
> ...



Man... all of the above... 

I think that I can get along with the small lathe that I have for now...

I hate to back out of an order already placed... but the concern is more of pitfalls of a Chinese lathe vs. Taiwan vs. US made... 

And I might be losing the fear of buying something old... I really like the looks of those old lathes... Slowly but surely I am getting hooked on those old machines...


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## Janderso (Nov 17, 2021)

Christianstark said:


> @wachuko here are some recent pics to further cloud your purchasing judgement...Just kidding! Which ever machine you go with, you will have a blast! I think at the beginning of this year, the 1340GT was the price/performance sweet spot, but the prices have surged. When is yours slated to be stateside?
> 
> View attachment 385731
> View attachment 385732
> ...


That lathe is beautiful.
Too clean too. Where the heck are the chips?


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## Christianstark (Nov 17, 2021)

Janderso said:


> That lathe is beautiful.
> Too clean too. Where the heck are the chips?


Still getting it set up. Just finished the controls wiring and am mounting my VFD box today, and running power to it.


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## macardoso (Nov 17, 2021)

Speaking from personal experience, a 12x36 is perfect for me and the work I do on it. Mine is a '94 Enco import model (Taiwan I think). Had a few issues but overall runs great. Even being old and not finished nearly as well as a PM machine, I can hold 0.0002" on diameter and have the taper nearly completely adjusted out.

An aftermarket DRO with LCD display and 0.0001" cross slide resolution on diameter can be had for $250 from AliExpress. Install for any DRO is a pain but good quality low cost alternatives exist.

I personally would NOT go with a 13" lathe because I need to move all my machines into a basement. a 12" lathe is possible (not easy), but I'd consider a 13" practically impossible.


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## Larry$ (Nov 18, 2021)

wachuko said:


> quality issues on this PM1236 has me worried.


Waiting will just make it another year that you don't get to use a lathe. Most of the issues haven't been deal killers for working OK. Prices have been going up and likely will continue as inflation continues. 5 years ago I bought a PM1440HD. It had some issues but nothing that kept it from working OK. Current price on a similar lathe is up a lot.


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## davidpbest (Nov 18, 2021)

Listen to your gut - buy what you REALLY WANT and enjoy it for decades with pride.


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## tredding (Sep 5, 2022)

macmccaskie said:


> I have the PM1236T, I'm not sure what the PEP means so I'll pretend I know what I'm talking about , If you have the room and budget for the 36"- do it.  You'll get: more weight and a bit more stability, have that much more space for attachments like bigger chucks, drill chucks, long drill bits- etc, threading/tapping tools, the tail stock can be moved out of the way that much more.  The larger lathe will have better resale value when your kids sell it.
> Remember, the attachments that come with the machine are for getting you going faster and can be upgraded if you want.  It's harder to upgrade the lathe features.  -Yes, I'm happy with it, but to be honest I do far more work on the Mill.


Do the SLP and PEP refer to the standard and preferred package?  i.e. additional accessories? Just starting down the rabbit hole.

Terry - W6LMJ


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## wachuko (Sep 26, 2022)

I just realized that I never provided a final update to this thread... 

I ended up with a used lathe.  Found locally (less than 30 miles from my house):  Grizzly G0709 14x40 lathe

Here is the thread on that one:









						(Used) Grizzly G0709 14x40 Ownership Thread
					

Figured I would start a thread on this new-to-me Grizzly G0709 metal lathe I got on December 23rd, 2021.  It all started looking for a milling machine... and then seeing if I could also find a bigger lathe before the PM1236 arrived.  Out of pure luck I found a machine shop selling both... I was...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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