# Looking for a good Tap and Die Set



## ronsack (Oct 9, 2014)

I have a Craftsman set but the tap and dies are not very good, i am looking for some recommendations for a full set metric and American something like 4-40 to 1/2" or bigger, I want HSS for making threads not just for cleaning, most of my work is in 1018 crs or A36
Thanks in advance for your reply
Ron


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## Uglydog (Oct 9, 2014)

While I prefer the old stuff. I need (ok: wanted) some a set of small standard taps and matching drills.
DavidH (a participant on this forum) was able to put together a bulk order for standard taps several months ago.
He then sorted all the taps and drills and mailed everything to the interested HM members.
I wonder if there is enough interest, and if he could do the same with metric?

Daryl
MN


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## Artemetra (Oct 9, 2014)

Get ready to spend some dough.

The way to go is to build your set piece by pieces. Unless you are a shop with a big fat budget you are not going to get anything good in a set. 

But you can find used and NOS here and there in the odd lot. Pawn shops get them in sometimes, and often have taps and dies lost at the bottom of the bins. Make a list and start checking them off. Another thing about taps and dies - especially taps - there are LOTS of types. Gun taps are my favorites, then spiral type, with different flute counts, I use a lot of 2-flute ones for aluminum and plastic but you'll want 4-flutes for steel. There are roll taps and different thread limit taps and on and on.

Look at McMaster-Carr and MSCDirect.com for some ideas. Quality is necessary with taps and dies, even re-threading is almost impossible with those cheapies. Never buy anything Chinese, I've never seen a decent one of any kind. (Other stuff from China can be somewhat useful, but not dies.) Stick with Greenfield and Butterfield, OSG, names like that. Fleabay has tons of taps and dies all the time, from deep to cheap.


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## Bill C. (Oct 9, 2014)

Look at Vermont American brand.  They have a complete set with a case.  They used to make great tools.


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## davidh (Oct 9, 2014)

thanks daryl, i would be more than happy to do another group buy. remember i need multiples of 12 for ordering as most of the 1/2 and under sizes come packaged to me that way.  they won't sell singles or smaller quanities to us distributors.

i have not heard a lick from anyone that participated in the small size of gun taps/drills so either they are all ****** or they were satisfied.  

let me know what your interested in, i will shop for ideas and go from there.  
is there any advantage to us hobbiest to use gun taps (spiral taps) compared to standard ?  i really don't know, but would welcome comments..................................
standing by here. . .
davidh  






Uglydog said:


> While I prefer the old stuff. I need (ok: wanted) some a set of small standard taps and matching drills.
> DavidH (a participant on this forum) was able to put together a bulk order for standard taps several months ago.
> He then sorted all the taps and drills and mailed everything to the interested HM members.
> I wonder if there is enough interest, and if he could do the same with metric?
> ...


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## GA Gyro (Oct 9, 2014)

Depending on sizes and quantities, I may be interested.  

I have an older (circa early 1980's) Craftsman set... missing a few critical sizes.  

When enough folks are interested... please contact me and let me know... THX

Subscribed to thread.


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## ScrapMetal (Oct 10, 2014)

You can sure tell the difference between a good tap and a poor one.  I just finished tapping some 6061 with some small metric taps.  I was in a rush to get a couple of holes done so I picked up some new "Craftsman" taps to try and get the job done.  I figured I only have two holes to tap so it shouldn't be a problem.  I did get the job done but I was biting my nails all the way through it.  I could see the taps  themselves twisting as I turned them in the holes.  Had to back off about every half turn to baby them through.  The same material but with standard taps, I grabbed an old Snap-On set that I have with fairly decent taps (roughly the same size) and the difference was like night and day.  The "good" taps went through the 6061 like it was butter with no deformation of that taps that I could discern.

Now I just get taps "by the job" as some of them in a set rarely get used.  When I come across a thread I don't have a tap for I just order it from McMasters or anywhere else that carries a quality tap/die.

JMHO

-Ron


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## Terrywerm (Oct 10, 2014)

A few years back I was starting to look around for a new tap and die set, as my old ones were getting pretty tough. The Snap On truck happened to show up at the shop one day while I was there and John showed me what items he had on sale. One of them was a tap and die set that included imperial and metric, both in fine and coarse threads. Sizes ran down to about 4-40 up through 1/2" plus 1/2" NPT.  Hex drive dies, not round, die stock and tap wrenches included as well as both metric and imperial thread gauges, all in a nice case. $300 out the door. I bought one and have been quite happy with it so far. Taps and dies all seem to be of very good quality and I cannot complain a bit. Some might say that the price was a bit high, but I am quite content with them.


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## zmotorsports (Oct 10, 2014)

I bought a set from MAC tools about 20 years ago and I have had to replace a few over the years but it has been a great set.  I bought a set made by Westward from my local Grainger a couple of years ago because it had the round adjustable ties.  It was a true thread cutting set vs. a thread chasing set.  I was a little reluctant because I have heard good and bad about Westward seeing as how they are Grainger's "economy" brand but I have been impressed so far.


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## richl (Oct 10, 2014)

I have a circa 1977 vintage snap on metric tap ànd die set I got when I was a mechanic, I would love to have a similar set for American threads. So I would be interested in a group buy for a good quality set.
Rich


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## Ray C (Oct 10, 2014)

All,

In my view, taps fall in the category of saw blades, respirator masks and other short-lived shop supplies.  It doesn't pay to buy junk and on the flip-side paying a lot of money doesn't necessarily guarantee you're getting a better product.  I've also learned that name-brand items (of this type) coming from the same manufacturer/distributor are often made in multiple factories around the world (such as Mexico, Taiwan, Israel, Germany, Canada and of course, China).  Some batches are better than others.  Making a long story short, I buy a lot of my taps/dies from a local office of Fastenal which I believe is a nationwide chain.  They're not necessarily the cheapest price (nor the highest) but, I haven't been stuck with a dud yet...

Ray


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## Rbeckett (Oct 10, 2014)

The Snap-On sets are usually a little higher in price but you will get quality sets that should last you a life time.  I have a set of their Thunder Bits and they drill scary fast in just about anything.  Just turn em at the right speed (SLOW) and you will love them too.


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## gredpe3 (Oct 11, 2014)

I think the Snap-On set is a good deal,I just picked up a metric 40 piece set from Matco $200.The set is gauranteed for life.He said if i break anything in the set it is covered.Of course it takes a week or two to get the replacement.I would be willing to bet the Snap-On set has the same deal.


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## chuckorlando (Oct 11, 2014)

I would be interested in a group buy most likely. Provided cost and quality make it worth it. I have 4 sets in the box. 1 large metric and 2 small standard that works ok and one standard that aint worth the metal it took to make them. But all are cheap throw aways which is why I have so many sets ahaha


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## Terrywerm (Oct 11, 2014)

Here is what I got in the 76 piece Snap-On set, just for those that are curious.




Dies are all adjustable. Only had trouble with one tap so far, and it was the first time I used it. I had to chase a 5/15" thread in mild steel and it chipped out a couple of threads on the tap. Took it back to 'Snappy John' and he gave me a new one, no charge. The new one cleaned up the hole without a hitch. Haven't had any problems since.


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## wrmiller (Oct 11, 2014)

terrywerm said:


> Here is what I got in the 76 piece Snap-On set, just for those that are curious.
> 
> 
> Dies are all adjustable. Only had trouble with one tap so far, and it was the first time I used it. I had to chase a 5/15" thread in mild steel and it chipped out a couple of threads on the tap. Took it back to 'Snappy John' and he gave me a new one, no charge. The new one cleaned up the hole without a hitch. Haven't had any problems since.



Layout wise, looks identical to mine (Irwin) but my dies are hex/thread repair. I sure could use a set of round thread cutting dies.


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## george wilson (Oct 11, 2014)

Adjustable dies are expensive these days. I have my original tap and die set,a Craftsman set from 1963. It has adjustable dies. Not sure when they stopped slitting the dies so they could be expanded a bit. Just recently,the set gave me trouble when I made a bunch of 3/8" brass bolts for someone. The bolts turned out to be a bit too large to thread through a standard hole. I think the old Craftsman pot metal die stock has gotten worn enough that the hole it holds the dies in is a bit oversize now. I might make a new steel die holder for it.

Though I have accumulated several other vintage tap and die sets over the years,I have reached for the old Craftsman set hundreds of times by now. I think I only broke one tap,a small one. They used to make pretty decent stuff(Well,HAD them made with their label.) 

If you can find a set with adjustable dies on Ebay,it is probably an old set. Being old in itself is not a guarantee of quality,but it does improve the odds. Many old sets,Vermont included,are carbon steel. Some like carbon steel as they are easier to remove when they break off in a hole. I just mill my broken taps out(mostly the broken taps of others,I should say,since I used to be the toolmaker in a museum.) Everyone ran to my shop when things got tough! I milled their broken taps out with carbide,TIN coated endmills. No problem for HSS,or whatever.


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## kwoodhands (Oct 14, 2014)

wrmiller19 said:


> Layout wise, looks identical to mine (Irwin) but my dies are hex/thread repair. I sure could use a set of round thread cutting dies.


I have the Irwin set too, no problem with the hex dies cutting new threads in steel .I also have a few thread forming taps and dies that I inherited.I believe they are all Greenfield. 
mike


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## RandyM (Oct 14, 2014)

wrmiller19 said:


> Layout wise, looks identical to mine (Irwin) but my dies are hex/thread repair. I sure could use a set of round thread cutting dies.



Where did this come from? I have never heard of hex=repair and round=cutting. I have both kinds and use them either way with no issues.


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## Jonesturf (Oct 14, 2014)

I picked up a whole set basically waiting for deals on new taps from eBay. I didn't get all the dies yet but I paid anywhere between $1-$3 for each tap, all good name (Greenfield, Osg, etc), all about a tenth of the cost new. 

I was told to skip hand taps and go right to spiral point (gun) taps since they are stronger and push chips down. The less flutes the better too. I've not had a problem doing hundreds of holes by hand and power tapping in the mill. For the price I paid I got a much better pieced together set than anything you can buy and most likely cheaper. The taps themselves probably only cost me about $50 for everthibg fine and coarse from #4 to 1/2". 

Also starrett tap wrenches are by far worth every penny...not the t-handle ones aalthough they are nice too, the regular long flat ones. I've had greenfields and other cheap tap wrenches and the starrett are a step above anything else I've ever used. 

If you take your time and wait for deals on ebay (most auctions went for $0.99), from the same seller even to save on shipping, you can piece together a real nice set. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


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## zmotorsports (Oct 14, 2014)

RandyM said:


> Where did this come from? I have never heard of hex=repair and round=cutting. I have both kinds and use them either way with no issues.



I don't know if it is "official" but a mentor I had many years ago told me that the round dies that are split/adjustable are for thread cutting and the solid perimeter hex dies are for thread chasing.  I don't know if that is older machining terminology or what.  He explained it because when you see tailstock die holder and the thread cutting die handles they have the set screws for adjustability depending on what class thread you want to cut.  It made sense to me and I guess stuck in my head.

I too have cut many, many threads using my hex dies both at home and work without any issues.  However, I did splurge and purchase a tap/die set with adjustable round dies for my home shop several years ago and like using it.  I have seen a few members on here refer to them the same way so I am just assuming it is older terminology.  The adjustable round dies definitely are harder to find nowadays though.


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## chips&more (Oct 14, 2014)

RandyM said:


> Where did this come from? I have never heard of hex=repair and round=cutting. I have both kinds and use them either way with no issues.



The hex dies are called “Chasers” and are typically used for rethreading/cleaning up a bad thread. Maybe there cutting geometry is different?


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## RandyM (Oct 14, 2014)

zmotorsports said:


> I don't know if it is "official" but a mentor I had many years ago told me that the round dies that are split/adjustable are for thread cutting and the solid perimeter hex dies are for thread chasing.  I don't know if that is older machining terminology or what.  He explained it because when you see tailstock die holder and the thread cutting die handles they have the set screws for adjustability depending on what class thread you want to cut.  It made sense to me and I guess stuck in my head.
> 
> I too have cut many, many threads using my hex dies both at home and work without any issues.  However, I did splurge and purchase a tap/die set with adjustable round dies for my home shop several years ago and like using it.  I have seen a few members on here refer to them the same way so I am just assuming it is older terminology.  The adjustable round dies definitely are harder to find nowadays though.





chips&more said:


> The hex dies are called “Chasers” and are typically used for rethreading/cleaning up a bad thread. Maybe there cutting geometry is different?



Thank you guys. I understand the differences in chasers and cutters I just never heard of this before. Now, I have heard of thread files and restorers. But, I am not buying this classification difference. Question, why would a chaser die cut a perfect thread if it is just a chaser. Sorry but this is just not adding up.


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## JimDawson (Oct 14, 2014)

We have kind of hijacked this thread into a discussion of hex vs round split dies.  Thread cutting dies come in both split round, and fixed hex configuration.  Sometimes in the same set.  The thread cutting geometry is about the same in both.  Thread chasers are normally a hex configuration, but the geometry is more like a roll form.  They won't cut threads, and are many times sized the same as a nut for the corresponding size thread.

To answer the OP's question, I would buy the pieces individually, in taps I normally purchase HHS spiral point taps, they are great for general purpose use.  I have found that Fastenall taps are pretty good.  In the smaller sizes, say 3/8 and smaller, I usually buy 5 to 10 pieces at a time, especially in the #10 to 5/16 range.  If I break a tap right in the middle of a job, I don't want to have to run and get another one.  The local hardware store taps and dies are normally pretty much junk.  I rarely use dies because I normally just single point on the lathe if I need to do external threading.  I assume the Fastenall dies would be about the same quality as their taps, but I have no experience with them.  Their tap handles seem to be fine.  About 45 years ago I bought a Craftsman Chrome-Edge metric set (hex dies), and I think I only have broken one tap out of that set.  Another option, just to get the storage boxes, would be to buy sets from HF and replace the taps & dies with good ones as the original ones fail.


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## darkzero (Oct 14, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> We have kind of hijacked this thread into a discussion of hex vs round split dies.  Thread cutting dies come in both split round, and fixed hex configuration.  Sometimes in the same set.  The thread cutting geometry is about the same in both.  Thread chasers are normally a hex configuration, but the geometry is more like a roll form.  They won't cut threads, and are many times sized the same as a nut for the corresponding size thread.



Sorry to the OP for continuing on with the hijack....

I agree with Jim that hex dies for chasing & round split dies for threading is not true. Split dies simply allow you to adjust the type of thread fit you need to cut & hex or round dies of course do not. Typical not spilt dies from hardware stores are probably class 2 or as I would say class 1 as the fit is on the sloppy side. But they can purchased with specific fit.

As said thread chasers (taps & dies) which are also called thread restorers will not cut a new thread. They are used to repair & clean existing threads. Say if a crest is slightly rolled over, they will form it back (but not always) somewhat as where you would use a thread cutting tap or die on it the crest will be cut off. They will also clean whatever crap is stuck in the root (depending on class fit). These chaser sets are not as common in machine shops so it seems. I used them a lot when I worked in automotive & they saved me lots of time & money.


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## Shadowdog500 (Oct 14, 2014)

darkzero said:


> Sorry to the OP for continuing on with the hijack....
> 
> I agree with Jim that hex dies for chasing & round split dies for threading is not true. Split dies simply allow you to adjust the type of thread fit you need to cut & hex or round dies of course do not. Typical not spilt dies from hardware stores are probably class 2 or as I would say class 1 as the fit is on the sloppy side. But they can purchased with specific fit.
> 
> As said thread chasers (taps & dies) which are also called thread restorers will not cut a new thread. They are used to repair & clean existing threads. Say if a crest is slightly rolled over, they will form it back (but not always) somewhat as where you would use a thread cutting tap or die on it the crest will be cut off. They will also clean whatever crap is stuck in the root (depending of calss fit). These chaser sets are as common in machine shops so it seems. I used them a lot when I worked in automotive & they saved me lots of time & money.




+ 1. Up I have several craftsman tap and die sets with hex dies and they have been making new threads for decades.

i also have the crafstman re-threading set shown here and it is only meant to straiten out or cleans out existing threads.  I also reach for it all the time as a thread checker set when I am trying to figure out what nut or bolt I have.

Chris


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## darkzero (Oct 14, 2014)

Yup my chaser set is from Craftsman too 15yrs ago, now that a lot of their stuff is from China who knows if they still carry it now. Not manufactured by Craftsman though that's for sure. IIRC they are made by Kastar or KD, I forget, USA made. But I did used to get individual replacements from my Matco truck.


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## Shadowdog500 (Oct 15, 2014)

Bill C. said:


> Look at Vermont American brand.  They have a complete set with a case.  They used to make great tools.



Vermont America used to make the old "MADE IN USA" Crafstman tap and die sets.  The new Vermont American sets are identical to my older Crafstman set.  I doubt that Vermont American are still made in the USA, but if they were I would buy a set.

i believe irwin is still made in the USA, but I don't know how good they are.

here are my older crafstman sets so you can compare them to the vermont American.
The set on the left are SAE only, and the set on the right is SAE/Metric.

Chris


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## GA Gyro (Oct 15, 2014)

Shadowdog500 said:


> Vermont America used to make the old "MADE IN USA" Crafstman tap and die sets.  The new Vermont American sets are identical to my older Crafstman set.  I doubt that Vermont American are still made in the USA, but if they were I would buy a set.
> 
> i believe irwin is still made in the USA, but I don't know how good they are.
> 
> ...



I believe that set on the right is the one I have... albeit in a black box.  Has both SAE and Metric, lots of sizes.  It is a 'Chrome-edge' set.  
A few sizes are missing... probably can replace them as needed.  

Will need to test a few of them in steel... to see if they are made of good metal or pot metal.  
Seems I remember most taps will thread AL... but not all taps will thread steel.

THX for the pics!

GA


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## drs23 (Oct 15, 2014)

I've got the set on the left. Had it for many years and I can assure you that they'll tap steel. 

R.E. Irwin being made in USA, I'm not so sure. There was a thread quite some time back where Lowe's was having a blow out sale on their entire tool line and I recall several folks talking about how the quality of the Irwin line had plummeted since being outsourced to China. I know for a fact that the Vice-Grip brand is now no better than the HF version. Holding a new pair in one hand and my 30yo 8" Vice-Grips in the other there is no comparison. Not even close!


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## David M (Oct 22, 2014)

davidh said:


> thanks daryl, i would be more than happy to do another group buy. remember i need multiples of 12 for ordering as most of the 1/2 and under sizes come packaged to me that way.  they won't sell singles or smaller quanities to us distributors.
> 
> i have not heard a lick from anyone that participated in the small size of gun taps/drills so either they are all ****** or they were satisfied.
> 
> ...



If you're putting together a group buy I might be interested in a metric set, taps for sure, maybe dies.


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## Taborclock (Oct 23, 2014)

drs23 said:


> I've got the set on the left. Had it for many years and I can assure you that they'll tap steel.
> 
> R.E. Irwin being made in USA, I'm not so sure. There was a thread quite some time back where Lowe's was having a blow out sale on their entire tool line and I recall several folks talking about how the quality of the Irwin line had plummeted since being outsourced to China. I know for a fact that the Vice-Grip brand is now no better than the HF version. Holding a new pair in one hand and my 30yo 8" Vice-Grips in the other there is no comparison. Not even close!




I know what you mean about Vice Grips...I treasure my 30 year old stuff. As for taps and dies, I mostly work with brass, so I got a set of inexpensive carbon steel ones and then replaced the ones I use often, 1/4- 20, etc. with good quality HSS.


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## davidh (Oct 23, 2014)

David M said:


> If you're putting together a group buy I might be interested in a metric set, taps for sure, maybe dies.


send me a private message so i can keep track of your interest. . . . . please ?


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## Ulma Doctor (Oct 23, 2014)

the best set of tap and dies i ever purchased was off of a Matco tool truck, my late uncle owned.
the taps and dies are very high quality and very tough but they did come with a hefty price of $300 (20 yrs ago) for a Metric and SAE/USS set.
i would assume that tool trucks still have good quality taps & dies.
if you are working with them daily i would avoid Hanson,Vermont American,Irwin, any lower grade stuff or junk carbon steel you get at the box stores.
buying and using junk in a pinch is one thing, but intentionally shooting yourself in the foot is not for me.

Bath is the best manufacturer i have had the pleasure to use.
i also have some vintage Polish taps & dies that are only marked POLAND that work really well in
 300 series stainless.
McMaster Carr has high quality taps & dies but they are going to be a little expensive, but worth the extra expense if you rely on them for a paycheck

Round dies are for making new threads. they are usually adjustable
 Hex dies are for repairing damaged threads. the pinch is not adjustable and the tolerance is looser.
Hex dies should not be confused with thread restorers that have even looser tolerances than the hex die

if you'd like to test the theory try putting threads on some 304 stainless with a Hex Die, then do the same with a round die.
there is a distinct difference.


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## Terrywerm (Oct 23, 2014)

So where do the twelve point dies fall in??   I earlier mentioned that mine are hex dies, but I was wrong, they are actually twelve point, and adjustable. I haven't used them to cut new threads in 304, but I have used them to cut threads in 316, and they did a fine job. I've heard the story in the past (it may have even been discussed here in this thread) about round vs. hex dies, and the more I read about it the more I think that it's a bunch of hooey (no offense, of course!) but I've never seen any concrete proof to back up the tale of round vs. hex, round for chasing, hex for cutting new or vice versa. If someone has some concrete proof, such as written literature from a manufacturer, or from a text book, please post it as I think we would all love to see it.

ON EDIT:  I looked back in this very thread, and I think the subject was adequately covered already.


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## chuckorlando (Oct 23, 2014)

Both of these folks list hex as re threads and rounds as adjustable thread dies. Dont know if thats standard though

http://catalog.tapcotaps.com/category/dies

http://www.gfii.com/pc_combined_res...ilter=Tool Type~Tool Type~equal~[Die]~&page=2


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## gi_984 (Oct 25, 2014)

I have an old Craftsman metric and SAE set that is made in the US of A.  Believe these sets were made for Craftsman by Hanson.  My favorites are the old Little Giant adjustable threading dies from Greenfield.  I have two sets that run from 1/4 to 1 inch.  Great for cutting new threads or cleaning up buggered threads.  I found mine locally on Craigslist.  You can still get NOS threading dies for these on Ebay.  If my contribution ever shows up I'm going to post a few of my extra sets for sale here.


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