# A couple chain saw repairs this morning



## cathead (Oct 24, 2021)

With some time this morning and the shop all nice and warm with the boiler working fine, I decided to do
a little repair work on a Stihl 038 chain saw I picked up at a garage sale.  An 038 is a pretty decent saw
so spent some time on it a couple weeks ago cleaning it up and testing it out.  The guy threw in an old
20 inch Oregon bar that was badly worn on the tip.  Anyway with nothing better to do this morning I thought it
would be time to test out the small WP9 TIG torch and see if I could build up the damaged area with some
weld and grind it smooth.  It went fairly well but I obviously need more TIG time.  I was able to fill in each rail
without too much material to grind off.  I used a 4.5 inch angle grinder with a thin cutoff blade to allow the
chain to pass freely once again.  There was one spot that bridged near the tip so resorted to milling out the
groove with a .050 carbide end mill.  Also I made a repair on the front of the saw above the muffler as
it had caught on something and looked pretty rough.  
	

		
			
		

		
	



It's a little crude but will use the repaired side up on the saw.  The bar was gouged out about 1/8 inch or so.
	

		
			
		

		
	



Here's the bar after grinding and milling out the channel.  Hmmmmm, looks like I was a little hard on the tungsten!  The red stuff is grease...
	

		
			
		

		
	



This is the repair on the saw above the muffler.  The muffler had come loose and worn a hole in the orange plastic so I covered it up.



Maybe later on in the day I will see how the saw works with the repaired bar.  It's a beautiful day up here, just right to cut up some firewood.
The present temp is 33F.


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## mmcmdl (Oct 24, 2021)

A bad day of sawing wood beats a good day at work every time !


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## Ulma Doctor (Oct 24, 2021)

nice save Burt!


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## MrWhoopee (Oct 24, 2021)

I was able to get a full set of repro plastics for my 440 from Farmertec. Very reasonably priced, indistinguishable from originals.





						Stihl MS380 MS381 038 AV Super Magnum Chainsaw Parts
					

Stihl MS380 MS381 038 AV Super Magnum chainsaw parts include cylinder piston kits, ignition coils, air filters, carburetors, recoil starter, chain sprocket cover, muffler, handle bar, fuel tank, clutch drum, sprocket cover, flywheel, oil pump, gasket, worm gear, air filter cover, shroud, Annular...



					www.farmertec.com


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## MrWhoopee (Oct 24, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> A bad day of sawing wood beats a good day at work every time !


I would agree except that a bad day of sawing wood frequently ends with a trip to the emergency room.


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## Martin W (Oct 24, 2021)

I think those 038 saws were still made in Germany. Lots of power, great for dropping trees. nice fix!
Cheers
Martin


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## rabler (Oct 24, 2021)

MrWhoopee said:


> I would agree except that a bad day of sawing wood frequently ends with a trip to the emergency room.


Poor taste, but when I was growing up my father worked occasionally in the hospital in Ely, Mn.   A frequent chain saw accident is a kickback resulting in the saw hitting someone in the face (yikes).  They called it a "Finnish face lift".


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## RJSakowski (Oct 24, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> A bad day of sawing wood beats a good day at work every time !


I think that's meant to be "a bad day of fishing"


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## RJSakowski (Oct 24, 2021)

I've had some bad days sawing wood but never any involving personal injury.  Usually, they involve pinching a blade in a cut.  If I'm lucky, I have another saw at hand.  Otherwise, it's time for the axe and some elbow grease.

There are definitely some days when it would be better to be at work, judging from the number of YouTube videos of people dropping trees on cars, trucks, tractors, and houses.


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## cathead (Oct 24, 2021)

Lets see, widow makers definitely get my attention as well as trees that are felled and land on a smaller tree or sapling putting
it under tension that have the propensity to whack you and remove your teeth if you are aren't careful.  Once a person learns
the physics of kickbacks, one learns not to saw with the upper part of the forward tip.  Of course there is the possibility of
getting one's saw stuck in a pinch but that's not hazardous, just a perturbance.  It's helpful to carry two saws in the woods to
get a person out of a jam.  That's the usual stuff I know about.  Logging is considered the most dangerous occupation.  
Foraging for firewood or cutting down a tree or two for the sawmill is about the extent of my logging activities.  One of the
most important things to know when cutting down a tree is how to notch it PROPERLY and leaving a hinge so it will fall
where you want it to.  Wedges are handy too if it leans back or there is a wind gust not in your favor.  It's good to have several 
clear escape routes planned as well just in case things happen to go awry as will happen eventually.


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## cathead (Oct 24, 2021)

MrWhoopee said:


> I was able to get a full set of repro plastics for my 440 from Farmertec. Very reasonably priced, indistinguishable from originals.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, I have used Farmertek too.  I bought some 038 mufflers and a handle and a few other parts a month ago.  
The parts were very inexpensive but the shipping costed as much as the parts, still a good deal though.  I see
one can buy a complete 038 in parts and assemble it yourself but I have enough saws.


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## RJSakowski (Oct 24, 2021)

When I first moved on to my property, I was burning 20 cords of firewood a year.  Back then, I was harvesting dead and dying oak with many of the trees 24" in diameter.  You learn really quickly how to read a tree for felling.  Once in a while, you read it wrong and it wants to go opposite of the direction you want which wends up in a pinched bar.  On rare occasions, I have pulled the bar and chain off the saw.to prevent damage to the head and had to get a second saw.  I have never had a set of plastic felling wedges but I have used my splitting wedges to the same effect.

As to escape routes, I have gone with the advice to clear all the obstacles and plan a rout 45º to the intended direction of felling as sometimes the tree can jump the stump and fly back as well.

Chainsawing firewood is a dangerous sport but the old fashioned tractor driven buzz saw was more so with a 30" blade with no guard and a long flat belt drive.  One of the old timers told me that there were a lot of fellows with nicknames like Lefty or Stumpy.


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## rabler (Oct 24, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> A bad day of sawing wood beats a good day at work every time !


I should add that my father was at least for a time back in the 1970's, part of the group that had the medical examiner contract for St. Louis county in Minnesota, basically Duluth, Mn and much of the state north of there up to the Canadian border.

I would say that any day of sawing wood that results in being his patient was a very bad day indeed.

As a result of his profession I got to see first hand the consequences of some pretty serious accidents.


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## Larry$ (Oct 24, 2021)

RJSakowski said:


> buzz saw was more so with a 30" blade


There was a man killed with one of those thing in my old neighborhood. Shaft broke and blade came back into him. Nasty cut!
Chain sawing up in a tree, man killed when the saw swung down after cutting off a limb. Got him right between the legs. Seems like a nasty way to lose them! I was working in the next block & heard the ambulance. 

20 cords a year! Seems like a lot.


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## Boswell (Oct 24, 2021)

I like to think that I am a very safety conscious person and even some of my friends call me Mr. Safety. However it is easy to get complacent. A number of years ago, I was using a chainsaw to do some trimming and was cutting a branch that was slightly higher that my head, nothing unusual. First cut from the bottom and the finish it from the top. When the branch was cut, the saw swung down. It was then that I noticed that the chain had bumped into my thigh and cut half of the threads on my heavy Blue Jeans. A near miss like this was quite the wakeup call. I still have those jeans and looks at the cut in the jeans as a reminder of my laxness (and luck) and to help keep me on the straight and narrow path


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## RJSakowski (Oct 24, 2021)

Larry$ said:


> There was a man killed with one of those thing in my old neighborhood. Shaft broke and blade came back into him. Nasty cut!
> Chain sawing up in a tree, man killed when the saw swung down after cutting off a limb. Got him right between the legs. Seems like a nasty way to lose them! I was working in the next block & heard the ambulance.
> 
> 20 cords a year! Seems like a lot.


Those are nasty ways to go.  At one time, I had an opportunity to make some extra cash cutting firewood and selling it.  To make the job easier, I built a buzz saw on a trailer.  It was powered by a 50 hp VW engine driving a gear belt and a 2:1 pulley arrangement for 3,000 rpm at the blade.  The blade was around 27" in diameter.  I completely  enclosed the blade except for the opening for the wood and made a carriage to deliver the wood to the blade.  It worked great, going through a 10" hickory log like butter.  

After cutting a cord, I decided there were better ways to make money.  I had planned on using for our own firewood but as I said previously, O was cutting 24" diameter trees which meant the logs would have to be split before sawing. Now, I used to split all my firewood be hand and could outsplit a gas powered wood splitter easily but splitting a 10' log is another story.  I gave up on the buzz saw and it sat in back of my barn for close to forty years.  I sent the engine off for scrap this Summer.  

Our neighbor had a near death experience while limbing a tree in his yard.  He was fifteen feet up a ladder when the limb he was cutting broke off and knocked him off the ladder.  He fell and hit his head and shoulder on a large boulder, breaking his shoulder and breaking his skull.  They air lifted him into the ER and it was touch and go as to whether he would make it.  He has recovered now but permanently lost hearing in one ear and nerve damage in his face required a gold insert in his eyelid to allow him the close his eye.  I think about tha whenever I get an urge to put a ladder in a tree.

That was then.  Now, with new windows and insulation, we are down to three or four cords a year.  We also dry our wood for two years under cover now.  We have an LP furnace for backup but use less than 200 gallon/yr.


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## cathead (Oct 25, 2021)

Ulma Doctor said:


> nice save Burt!




Well, actually it was more like practicing TIG welding.  The tip was worn and the chain rubbed on the tip so it got pretty warm
after sawing through one log.  I'm tempted to remove the rivets in the tip and make a slightly larger star wheel.  I have lots
of other bars so will hang it on the wall for the moment.  Some bars have replaceable tips.  This one doesn't so will have
to make a new part or possibly find something at the scrap yard.  I learned one thing for sure and that is to be sure to grease
the tip wheel religiously.  Some bars don't have the tiny hole to grease the tip but it is easy to stategically drill a grease hole.


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## mmcmdl (Oct 25, 2021)

Cat . Do you have a mill ? If so , what kind ? I'm considering a Woodland Mills unit in the future .


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## Downunder Bob (Oct 25, 2021)

Here in downunder land wedon't use cords for firewood, it usually sold by the Tonne aka 1000 Kg. Judging by the comments I guess 20 cords is quite a lot.

In our current house we generally use about 3 T in a cold winter an about 2 T in a mild winter.

I have been cutting firewood for about 40 years and so far have not had a serious injury, but a few close calls. 

Our main firewood here is a variety of Eucalyptus trees, Red river gum, Blue gum, Sugar gum, Lemon scented gum, and Grey box, My favourite is red river gum. Almost all Eucalypts have a very high BTU, among the highest of all firewoods. So it comes down to availability. Red river gum and Blue gum are usually the two most common to be sold commercially, and usually run around $380/T near where I live but some other places can be more or less costly. 

Most years I'm lucky enough to get my wood for free or much less than commercial rates, I just have to collect and cut it.


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## Peyton Price 17 (Oct 25, 2021)

Here's a good story, heard it from the guy at the power equipment shop, some guys walk in and ask, what is the best all-around chainsaw they used, the owner cuts down huge trees, so he recommends a 560, thinking this guy does the same, he buys it, then returns the next day saying," how on earth do you handle this thing, I nearly cut my arm off after starting it!", turns out he wanted a saw to cut firewood, not big old trees.


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## cathead (Oct 25, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> Cat . Do you have a mill ? If so , what kind ? I'm considering a Woodland Mills unit in the future .



Yes, I have a home made band saw with a 16 horse Kohler on it, ran it this morning to process some red oak.


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## cathead (Oct 25, 2021)

On starting saws:

I drop start mine.  You push down the engine and pull the starter rope simultaneously.  It works better than
trying to put your foot in the stirrup of the saw and pulling up.   I hold the saw with my left hand and the
starter cord in my right hand.


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## rabler (Oct 25, 2021)

cathead said:


> On starting saws:
> 
> I drop start mine.  You push down the engine and pull the starter rope simultaneously.  It works better than
> trying to put your foot in the stirrup of the saw and pulling up.   I hold the saw with my left hand and the
> starter cord in my right hand.


That's how I've always done it, just never put the name "drop start" to it.


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## cathead (Oct 26, 2021)

This morning I disassembled the bar tip and TIG welded on a little more length to the tips of the sprocket.  Mind you
this is only an experiment and it was pretty crude.  The sprocket seemed to be made of some hard steel.  The ends
were ground by eye to what looked about right so I reassembled the bar and was surprised that how well it worked
without the chain rubbing on the bar tip.  I test ran the saw and it seems to work fine so will give it a try today.  I have
no idea if it will hold up or not, only time will tell I guess.  If nothing else, I got to "dip" the tungsten a few times and
hopefully have learned something in the process.  There are about 20 tiny rollers in that tip so a bit of a challenge to
put back together using some grease and sliding the parts in on a page from a MSC catalog.


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## RJSakowski (Oct 26, 2021)

Downunder Bob said:


> Here in downunder land wedon't use cords for firewood, it usually sold by the Tonne aka 1000 Kg. Judging by the comments I guess 20 cords is quite a lot.
> 
> In our current house we generally use about 3 T in a cold winter an about 2 T in a mild winter.
> 
> ...


A cord of wood is a stack 4' x 4' x 8' or 128 cu. ft.  Ideally, it is 80% wood or better.  A face cord is a 4' x 8' stack of whatever length you have, ideally 1`6" so there are three face cords to a cord.   Important to know the difference.  because some sellers say they are selling a cord when in fact, they are selling a face cord. Firewood isn't sold by weight because of variable water content.  Green wood can have as much as 50% water.  It's a double whammy because yo are not getting as much combustible wood and you have to boil off the water as well which drastically lowers the heat value.

An interesting factoid is that all woods have essentially the same heat value by weight.  The better species for heating are just more dense.  A preferred species here is oak with white oak being better.  My favorite wood is hickory.  Cured hickory burns cleanly with a temperature approach coal.

Costs for firewood have been rising due to rising cost for fossil fuels.  The last time I looked they were in the $250  to $350 per cord range.  Lately, we buy our wood from a neighbor as 8 -10' logs for $125/cord which I cut and my wife splits with the hydraulic splitter.  I used to split all the wood by hand but I quit when my back went our.  The wife tried the splitter and decided that she really likes it so she took over the splitting and stacking.  She's afraid of the chain saw so she hasn't tried to take over that part....yet.  I keep hoping.  I think of it as survival training for when I'm no longer around. 

Our yearly heating costs run around $500 for firewood and $150 for propane plus the cost of running the chainsaw and wood splitter. This year will be considerably less because we cut a large number of trees around the buildings and while I would normally consider them trash wood for burning, as I said, thoroughly fried, I get the same heat value per lb.  They burn quickly and have more ash but will do nicely during the warmer transition periods in November and March when we would normally burn propane.


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## Larry$ (Oct 27, 2021)

It's true about dry wood all having the same caloric value, EXCEPT for softwood, conifers. Their resin content adds some fuel value. We get very little soft wood around here. We used to be able to buy coal locally but not anymore. My parents first house had a stoker fed coal furnace. Worked well. My grandmother's house had a furnace that took lump coal. Required more tending. My first house had a coal furnace that had been converted to oil. Terribly inefficient and expensive to run.


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## cathead (Oct 27, 2021)

A chain saw tip:



Yesterday while testing the saw, I thought of a helpful tip for some of you.  The log I was cutting was on the ground and
pretty dirty on the bottom.  If you saw from the top first and then rotate the log so the dirt is towards you, the saw will not
be dragging the dirt through the wood and dulling the saw but rather cutting clean wood and exiting through the dirty side.


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## rabler (Oct 27, 2021)

Larry$ said:


> It's true about dry wood all having the same caloric value, EXCEPT for softwood, conifers. Their resin content adds some fuel value.


My vague recollection is softwood is more problematic in terms of creosote and soot?  Is that true?  I know well seasoned wood and a reasonable hot fire is preferred.

I grew up in a house heated by wood only in Duluth, Mn.  Cutting, splitting and stacking firewood was a family affair.  We built round stacks, IIRC about 6 cords per year, almost all poplar and birch, but its been a few decades since I've messed with burning wood.  I'm planning on putting a wood burning stove into the shop that's going up soon.  I plan on having both mini-split heat pumps and gas heat, but my wife misses a fire.


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## Larry$ (Oct 27, 2021)

I think you are correct about more build up from softwoods. I didn't have access to softwoods while heating on wood. However that did not keep me from having a chimney fire. Pretty terrifying! Like a jet engine roar in the chimney. Good reason to have an air tight stove so you can starve the chimney fire. Also a good reason to run a chimney brush down the thing at least once a year.


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## RJSakowski (Oct 27, 2021)

Larry$ said:


> It's true about dry wood all having the same caloric value, EXCEPT for softwood, conifers. Their resin content adds some fuel value. We get very little soft wood around here.


One would think so but according to the Utah State University Forestry  Extension, the heat value per lb dry weight is exactly the same for white oak  as that for for Ponderosa pine.  Most of the North American wood species are around 7,000 btu/lb,  Exceptions are: Pinyon @ 9.03 kBtu/lb., Quaking Aspen @ 8.43, Lodgepole pin @ 8.08, Beech @ 7.31, Engleman spruce @ 7.25,  and hemlock @ 7.15 on the high side and Tamarack @ 6.55, and Eastern Red Cedar @ 6.31 kBtu/lb.
The Engineering Toolbox has similar data but their values are slightly lower at around 6.4 kBtu/lb.

Sources: 




__





						Wood Heating | Forestry
					

Learn the properties of wood that are best suited for heating with our comprehensive guide, firewood guide for Utah, What species of wood is best for firewood? Burning characteristics of wood.




					forestry.usu.edu
				







__





						Wood - Combustion Heat Values
					

Combustion of wood and firewood heat values for species like Pine, Elm, Hickory and more.




					www.engineeringtoolbox.com


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## RJSakowski (Oct 27, 2021)

Larry$ said:


> I think you are correct about more build up from softwoods. I didn't have access to softwoods while heating on wood. However that did not keep me from having a chimney fire. Pretty terrifying! Like a jet engine roar in the chimney. Good reason to have an air tight stove so you can starve the chimney fire. Also a good reason to run a chimney brush down the thing at least once a year.


Creosote buildup is largely due to lower flue gas temperatures due to water content in the wood.  While water is a combustion product, dry wood burns hot enough that the creosote doesn't condense in the chimney.  A properly insulated chimney also helps to keep creosote accumulation down.

When I first moved in, our chimney was exterior to the house and made from concrete chimney block. Creosote would bui;ld up over the course of the heating season to the point where the chimney was completely blocked.  About 30 years ago, I installed a 35' fully welded stainless liner in the old chimney running through the center of the house.  Vermiculite was poured around the outside of the liner for insulation.  Some creosote does build up over a heating season but it flakes off the liner and drops to the cleanout below.  In thirty years, I have never had to clean the chimney.

When I installed our Big Jack wood furnace some twenty years ago, I took their advice and added a barometric damper.  I fairly quickly disable it.  Should the ever be a runaway chimney fire, the damper would open proving oxygen for the fire.  I also modified the forced air intake by adding a solenoid controlled damper to it, shutting off combustion air when heat wasn't called for. There is a small amount of air flow owing to the motor cooling circuit but it fairly effectively shuts off air flow into the furnace during idle periods.


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## Shootymacshootface (Oct 27, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> A bad day of sawing wood beats a good day at work every time !


I know that you were kind of joking, but do you know what a loggers first aid kit consists of?

That would be some kotex pads, duct tape, and a tourniquet.


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## cathead (Dec 18, 2021)

Yesterday, I removed the fuel tanks on both of those 038 Supers and cleaned all the sawdust oil soaked
crud from in there.  Several of the antivibration rubber things were oil soaked so replaced them with new
parts.  Also one of the saws had a chain that turned when idling so replaced the clutch springs to fix it and
the other had an oil leak so replaced the gasket under the oil pump.  So, now they are sitting by the door sharp
and ready to run.


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## Ike Carlson (Dec 23, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> A bad day of sawing wood beats a good day at work every time !


No....a bad day sawing wood usually does not end well.....you ALWAYS want sawing to go well.


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