# Rusty Mill



## azshadeguy (Mar 10, 2019)

Lagun mill that spent some time in the weather. I am not going to buy it but if I did. What would it be worth?
I have  2 mills now and no room.





						Lagun Milling Machine |     	 		Industrial Machinery & Equipment 		 	 		Other Industrial Machinery & Equipment 		 	  |  Auctions Online | Proxibid
					

Lagun Republic 440-volt 3PH Milling Machine  (plate unreadable)




					sierra.proxibid.com


----------



## benmychree (Mar 10, 2019)

How much is scrap iron worth?  Walk, do not run to the nearest exit.


----------



## ThinWoodsman (Mar 10, 2019)

Wow, those ways are gone. I wonder if the table even moves!
The opening bid sounds about right. Twenty-five bucks for a lifelong restoration project


----------



## Submachine (Mar 10, 2019)

$25 with delivery  : )


----------



## alloy (Mar 10, 2019)

That's a sad end to a good machine.


----------



## Chipper5783 (Mar 10, 2019)

Humm, not so fast. I like rusty machines - it really improves the price. Granted that looks bad, and I’d have to see it before I’d ever buy something like that.  I’ve picked up two decent mills and a large drillpress - pretty cheap, mostly because they did not show very well - everyone else had either walked away / run away.  I don’t need more machines - I’m buying more machines for fun, so I acquire at the very bottom price point.  Most any unusual machine that presents badly, is a candidate (a bit rusty improves the likelihood that I can get it).


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 10, 2019)

I agree with Chipper.  If it were close to me I'd grab for as much as $400.   I wouldn't pay much more than that only because by the time you get up to around $800 you can start finding some pretty clean machines.   But yeah, I'd grab it at $400.

In fact, I had a Bridgeport mill that size and I'm ashamed to say that I had let it get extremely rusty.  I had no choice.  Nowhere to keep it so it sat outside under a tarp for years, and I was working R&D at the time and simply had no time to deal with it.   I finally took it to the metal scrap yard and they gave me  $400 for it just in scrap metal price.   

I'm wishing I would have kept it now.   Even as rusty as it was I think it could have been restored.  Now I'm wishing I had one.   And I've been looking.  Just missed a really nice one for $895.   But that's the cheapest one I've seen.   Most are over a grand and not even as nice.   In fact, I've see people asking a grand for mills like the one in the OP.   I wouldn't pay that much for it.   But for $400 it would be on my flat bed trailer.  

That auction has 7 days to go.  I'll bet it goes for at least $400.  Maybe more.


----------



## JimDawson (Mar 10, 2019)

Does Evapo Rust come in 55gal barrels?


----------



## hman (Mar 11, 2019)

Funny thing ... the description says 120 volt.  But the main switch says 480V 3 phase.  Ah, well ... waddya want for discount prices?


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 11, 2019)

hman said:


> Funny thing ... the description says 120 volt.  But the main switch says 480V 3 phase.  Ah, well ... waddya want for discount prices?



The table has a 120 volt 2 amp power feed on the right side.  That's probably where they got the 120 volt from. 

I'd buy this mill for $400 without a second thought.   But being that its in Arizona it's a bit too far for me to pick it up.  

A lot can depend on who wants it and what they intend to use it for.   For someone who is into super precision and just wants to buy a mill it wouldn't be worth looking at.   But for someone who isn't worried about extreme precision and is just looking for a cheap starter mill, this mill can be brought back to life.   Rust almost always looks far worse than it truly is. 

I'll be surprised if this mill goes for less than $400.


----------



## WalterC (Mar 11, 2019)

If it were only 200 miles away, I'd jump on it.


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 11, 2019)

Apparently they are going to hold this as a live auction too.   So when you bid on the web you may still be beaten on live auction day by a "real person"  

I would love to go to that auction.   Did anyone notice that they have a bunch of these 75HP 3 phase pumps starting at $25 opening bid?

https://sierra.proxibid.com/Industr...urora-Pump-with-Motor/lotInformation/46923610

It's hard to believe that these would really be 75HP.   But if they are imagine the Rotary Phase Converter you could build with one of those motors!  

You could use that to drive anything. 

It must be a misprint?  Surely they are only 7.5 HP.    Even that wouldn't be bad if you could get them for $25.   I'd buy 3 or 4 of those  at $25 each if I could.   They would make great rotary phase converters.    Surely they aren't actually 75HP.   That would be unreal. 

They have tons and tons of 3 phase motors at that auction.  I'm sure a person who wants to build a rotary phase converter could find some gold there. 

I was looking for a 7.5 HP 3-phase motor to use and the cheapest used one I could find was $99.     Like I say, at $25 I'd buy 3 or 4 of them.


----------



## JimDawson (Mar 11, 2019)

Robo_Pi said:


> Surely they aren't actually 75HP. That would be unreal.



Those motor are really 75 HP, 175 amps at 230V.  A little big for most home shops


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 11, 2019)

JimDawson said:


> Those motor are really 75 HP, 175 amps at 230V.  A little big for most home shops



Ok, probably don't want those then.  

Although as rotary phase converters they most likely simply wouldn't generate that kind of power. 

But you're right.   None the less, with the tons of 3-phase motors they do have in various lots in that auction you probably could find some suitable motors to use as a 3-phase rotary idler motor.   For my purposes I'm thinking 7.5 HP would probably work.   Although something slightly bigger would probably be better.   Maybe 10 HP.

In a rotary phase convertor the idler motor needs to be about  3 times larger than the motors you want to run.    So if you want to run a 3 HP motor you need a 10 HP idler motor.   Although I've heard of people running a 3 HP motor with rotary phase converters that only had 7.5 HP idlers.   They still work, they just wouldn't be as strong.   

I've been thinking of building a 3-phase rotary converter to run 2 HP 3-phase motors.  So a 7.5 HP motor should work well.   In fact, some people have told me that I could get by with a 5 HP idler.   It just wouldn't deliver as much power as a 7.5 HP would. 

Anyway.  I'm sure I could find something there that would work.   Problem is that the auction is too far away.   I live in PA.   They don't ship anyway, and even if they did the shipping costs would destroy the original deal.   Nothing saved in the end. 

But yeah, someone could find a great deal on some 3 phase motors there.   Assuming you could get them for the starting bid or very close to it.


----------



## JimDawson (Mar 12, 2019)

Robo_Pi said:


> In a rotary phase convertor the idler motor needs to be about 3 times larger than the motors you want to run. So if you want to run a 3 HP motor you need a 10 HP idler motor.



I'm running my 10HP lathe on a 15HP RPC.  1.5 to 2X is all you really need.  It handles a 150% intermittent load with some growling.  Having said that, I do have a 2HP hydraulic pump on that circuit also that is always on when the spindle motor runs, so that adds to the RPC starting power.  Anyway that system runs the 10HP spindle on a VFD, four 1.8 KW servos, two coolant pumps, and the hydraulic pump.


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 12, 2019)

I agree.   The approximate 3 time larger is the theoretical ratio often given in theory books.    And I believe that number is actually given to account for other losses in a typical system.      But as a practical matter you can actually get by with far less.   

In any case, whatever size motor a person might need they might be able to find one at this auction at a pretty decent price.   I'd be happy to get anything from 5 to 10 HP for $25.    And it appears that some of those lots include far more than one motor.   So you might be getting the motors for only a few bucks each in come cases.   Assuming those opening bid prices don't go up much.     That might be the case since there typically aren't a lot of people looking for 3-phase motors.   So this is a chance to get a bunch cheap.   For someone who actually wants them.

I wouldn't mind having a bunch of cheap 3-phase motors to play around with.  

If nothing else I'd have fun experimenting with them.  I'd definitely go to that auction and pick some up if there wan't any serious bidding competition.  I'm not going to pay a lot of money for them.   But if I can get them for close to that $25 starting bid, I'd pick some up.   Especially if they are being sold in lots. 


Here's a 3-phase 10 HP starting bid $25







Here's a lot of 23 motors starting at $25.  Some of these might even be 110-220v single phase.  That's almost a buck a piece.  I'd grab up on those for that price.






Here's 3 big ones.   Sold as a lot starting at $25.






With my luck if I went to this auction there would be a bunch of other people wanting these motors too.  

For $25 a lot I'd love to have these.    But if I had to pay much more than that I wouldn't want them.    So it all depends on how many people show up who would want these motors.   If I lived close by I'd bid on all three of these lots at the starting bid, and just see if I win.   If so, I'd go get them.  If not, nothing lost.


----------



## hermetic (Mar 12, 2019)

View it! spend ten minutes going over it, then walk away and look at other stuff. Then go back and give it another ten minutes, and if you get chance, do it again. If the machine is basically good, dont worry about the rust, it will clean off easy. I buy machines like this(or used to, retired now) all the time, for pennies, spend a few days on them, and sell for thousands, and have equipped my worksop with a range of pristine machine tools for very little money. If there is a serious problem on it, you won't spot it first time you look! in many years of auction buying I have never regretted a purchase, only the ones I didnt buy! Transport is the bugbear, I was limited to 2 (english) tons!


----------



## cjtoombs (Mar 12, 2019)

I'd go 300 on that mill, if I needed one.  It would need complete dissasembly, de rusting and repairs made to all the stuff you can't tell is messed up till you get it apart.  As long as the ways are not pitted, the surface rust will come off with some phosphoric acid and scrubbing.  If it belonged to a public works, you can bet it didn't get much use, so wear probably won't be a problem.


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 12, 2019)

hermetic said:


> View it! spend ten minutes going over it, then walk away and look at other stuff. Then go back and give it another ten minutes, and if you get chance, do it again. If the machine is basically good, dont worry about the rust, it will clean off easy. I buy machines like this(or used to, retired now) all the time, for pennies, spend a few days on them, and sell for thousands, and have equipped my worksop with a range of pristine machine tools for very little money. If there is a serious problem on it, you won't spot it first time you look! in many years of auction buying I have never regretted a purchase, only the ones I didnt buy! Transport is the bugbear, I was limited to 2 (english) tons!



You didn't answer the question of the OP.   What would it be worth?

What would be your max bid?   (assume no major problems other than the rust).   You've looked it over well many times.   And found nothing major save for the rust issue.   At what point in the auction would you walk away?   

I offered $400.   You you bid over that?   Or would you have already walked away earlier when the bidding was still lower?

Just curious whether I would have won this mill at $400 if you and I were the only two bidders.  

If you were willing to go $405 I'd be the one going home without the mill.


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 12, 2019)

cjtoombs said:


> I'd go 300 on that mill, if I needed one.  It would need complete dissasembly, de rusting and repairs made to all the stuff you can't tell is messed up till you get it apart.  As long as the ways are not pitted, the surface rust will come off with some phosphoric acid and scrubbing.  If it belonged to a public works, you can bet it didn't get much use, so wear probably won't be a problem.




I already bid $400 in an eariler post (_hypothetically of course_)   So if you and I were the only people bidding on the mill I would have won it for $305.      $95 less than I was willing to pay. 

I'm not going to bid on this mill in reality because it's too far away from me.   I live in PA and the mill is in AZ.     So I won't be bidding on this mill for real.    But if this auction where just down the street from me I'd head over there with $400 in my pocket.  

I hope I get to see what the thing actually goes for in real life. 

Anyone bidding $405 for it?


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 12, 2019)

By the way, it's already up to $160 and it has 6 more days to go.

I'm willing to bet that it goes for over $400 and I would have walked home empty-handed.


----------



## cjtoombs (Mar 12, 2019)

Robo_Pi said:


> By the way, it's already up to $160 and it has 6 more days to go.
> 
> I'm willing to bet that it goes for over $400 and I would have walked home empty-handed.



Yea, hard to say.  Arizona is a bit of a machine tool desert as well as a literal desert, so it may go for a good bit of change.  If I lived close and actually needed a mill, I might be willing to go relatively high for that, but it would cost me more than 400 to go get it (and I'm a lot closer than you).  Right now, I would have no place to put it.  Technically, I could just put it in the yard till I got ready to do something with it, since it wouldn't get any worse here than it would there, but I don't think I can afford the divorce.


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 12, 2019)

I'm single so I've got the divorce problem covered.  

I also have my own trailer for hauling it home, so there would be no charge to transport it.    And I have a building where I can put it, so I'm all set there too.  

But you're right, if machines are hard to come by in AZ it could go for a pretty penny just due to that one factor.   I can't see it going for any less than $400 to be honest.   If I went to the auction I really wouldn't expect to win it for $400.

We'll see what happens with this one.


----------



## hman (Mar 12, 2019)

Robo_Pi said:


> I also have my own trailer for hauling it home, so there would be no charge to transport it.


Ya ... except for the gas, food and lodging between PA and here, then the trip back   Of course, you *could* think of it as a sightseeing trip, with an "added reward" at the far end of the loop.


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 12, 2019)

hman said:


> Ya ... except for the gas, food and lodging between PA and here, then the trip back   Of course, you *could* think of it as a sightseeing trip, with an "added reward" at the far end of the loop.



You're right.  I'm talking hypothetically.  

It could be that no one  local to the auction will be willing to bid $400 for the mill.   Then you might get it for $300.   I hope you do, if you're going to bid on it.   I wish you the best. 

The OP asked what it's worth.  It's actually worth whatever someone close enough to the auction is willing to bid.  

So I'm just saying that if I lived close to this auction it would be worth at least $400.  

When the actual auction ends we'll find out what it's actually worth at that auction. 

This also doesn't mean that no one would pay more for it.   All that it would mean is that no one who was aware of the auction would pay more for it.  There will always be people who hear later than it went for X amount of dollars and they will say, "_Darn I wish I had known about that auction I would have paid more than that for it._"   

Then of course there will always be the people who will say, "_I wouldn't haul it away for free.  I don't care how much it sold for._"    But we don't care about those people because they won't be bidding on it. 

You don't need to care about me either because I can't bid on it.  

So I'm just playing around on an Internet thread saying what I would do if I could. 

I'm the "_Little Hobbyist who would if I could_"


----------



## cjtoombs (Mar 13, 2019)

I could haul it on my truck, but it gets about 10 mpg, diesel, so the fuel plus a hotel room would be more than 400 for the trip.  I ran across this today, which was an interesting set of videos (if a bit long) that is relevant to this conversation.  I cleaned up and repaired a 16" G&E shaper that was in at least as bad of shape as the mill above from a rust standpoint, and it had to have several repairs, as well.  Came out pretty well.


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 13, 2019)

I watched that Rockwell lathe rebuild a while back.  In fact, I've watched quite a few machine rebuilds that were in similar condition.     And I'm actually looking for something to restore myself.   I'm not really looking for a rusty machine, but hey, if the price is right I won't hesitate to start with a rusty machine. 

In fact, in some cases you can actually get a better machine buying the rusty machine than the one that looks real pretty.   The pretty one might have more serious issues concerning wear than the rusty ones.   So I'm not going to run from rust.  It could be that it's actually a fairly good machine that just needs cleaned up.   I'm betting that's the case with this mill from the water company.   They probably only used this for one-off repairs.  If they bought it new it may not have any real wear on it at all.   If that's the case, then that rust isn't going to be all that bad after all., 

But it does scare a lot of other people away, allowing the price to come down to a pretty good deal.   This one even has the power table feed.  That's nice.  I'll bet that can be refurbished to work.   Dang, I wish this auction was near me.  Although like I say, I'm willing to bet that it goes for over $400 anyway.   And that's the point where I'd start thinking twice.   Start taking much more than that and you can pick up a better mill if you're willing to wait for the deal to come along.


----------



## hermetic (Mar 13, 2019)

Robo_Pi said:


> You didn't answer the question of the OP.   What would it be worth?
> 
> What would be your max bid?   (assume no major problems other than the rust).   You've looked it over well many times.   And found nothing major save for the rust issue.   At what point in the auction would you walk away?
> 
> ...


Well I didnt think it was relevant because I am in UK, but I would go to £450 on it


----------



## john.k (Mar 13, 2019)

Any auction you want to factor in their additional fees..........so we have 12% buyers premium,5% proxbid premium (if you use it).,another premium for credit card use (5%).........and it also says there are local sales taxes........8.5% approx...........next are various hidden fees ,which are often special to an individual auction,and if a forklift isnt provided ,then there will likely be a "hanger on" with a fork charging anything to $100 for a single lift......So you bid $400,then add something like 1/3 (if the sales tax isnt waived for non residents),then maybe another $50 for a lift onto your truck.


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 13, 2019)

hermetic said:


> Well I didnt think it was relevant because I am in UK, but I would go to £450 on it



That's $594 US dollars.   You're the high bidder thus far.  I LOSE! 

Let's see if the mill goes for more than $600 us dollars.

Anyone give $605 for it? 

Currently the actual mill is holding steady a $160 in the real auction awaiting a bid of $170.  But it has 5 more days to go.

I lost to hermetic.   Although, I'm not sure if that really counts.   Machines might go for quite a bit more in the UK than they do in the US?  I don't know if that's true or not.


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 13, 2019)

john.k said:


> Any auction you want to factor in their additional fees..........so we have 12% buyers premium,5% proxbid premium (if you use it).,another premium for credit card use (5%).........and it also says there are local sales taxes........8.5% approx...........next are various hidden fees ,which are often special to an individual auction,and if a forklift isnt provided ,then there will likely be a "hanger on" with a fork charging anything to $100 for a single lift......So you bid $400,then add something like 1/3 (if the sales tax isnt waived for non residents),then maybe another $50 for a lift onto your truck.



This is true.  If anyone is bidding on the actual mill you better read all the fine print first and the terms of the auction.  You might get stabbed in the back with hidden charges.   Gotta watch out for that on the real deal.


----------



## azshadeguy (Mar 13, 2019)

john.k said:


> Any auction you want to factor in their additional fees..........so we have 12% buyers premium,5% proxbid premium (if you use it).,another premium for credit card use (5%).........and it also says there are local sales taxes........8.5% approx...........next are various hidden fees ,which are often special to an individual auction,and if a forklift isnt provided ,then there will likely be a "hanger on" with a fork charging anything to $100 for a single lift......So you bid $400,then add something like 1/3 (if the sales tax isnt waived for non residents),then maybe another $50 for a lift onto your truck.



They will load for free. I usually figure 20% on top of the bid if you pay cash.


----------



## jdedmon91 (Mar 13, 2019)

It depends on how much time and energy plus cash you want to invest. I will say I own a Logan mill and it is a hoss. But it was in shop ready condition 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hermetic (Mar 14, 2019)

Robopi, well I don't know either But in the US you have much more empty space between machines than in the UK!, but small to medium manual mills seem to sell, a half decent Bridgeport still makes £1500 plus, even though they used to make them 12 miles down the road from me in Bridlington when Adcock and Shipley had a factory there! I have a Harrison Horizontal which also has a vertical head , school machine, hardly used, and bought thought to be rusted, it was actually a thick layer of cutting oil and wood dust, underneasth it was pristine! Since the advent of Ebay prices have "hardened" enormously. Pre Ebay I bought a Colchester Student roundhead mk1 at an open auction in Hull for £180 ( today £1200+)with accesories and tooling. the smaller lathe next to it could be moved by two men into the back of a van, and although not half as good as the Colchester, it made £450! The Colchester rode back scarily on my 1 ton Nissan Cabstar pickup I still have it, and it is a really good machine! Paid £160 (now about £400) for an Alba 1A 12" shaper, off of Ebay, but out in the sticks in the north of England, but not far from me, and £53 for an immaculate Manchester Rapidor machine hacksaw , again because it was in the Northeast uk and folk dont want to travel!, You consider 150 to 200 miles to be on your doorstep, we consider that it is the length of the country!!


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 14, 2019)

hermetic, I agree that eBay (and Craigslist) has hardened the prices.  People can now see what other people are getting for them and price their own equipment accordingly.  It's hard to find a decent Bridgeport mill for less than about $1500.  Although on occasion I do see them for under $1000, but those are becoming increasingly rare finds. 



hermetic said:


> You consider 150 to 200 miles to be on your doorstep, we consider that it is the length of the country!!



200 miles is my personal limit.  I really don't want to travel much further with my old truck and trailer.   I might go a little further if I found a really great deal on something.  But generally I tend to look closer to home too.    I live in a rural area though, so it's not likely that I'll find too many deals right next door to me.

I see the mill is currently holding steady at $160 with 4 more days to go.  Someone might get lucky and pick it up for a song.


----------



## azshadeguy (Mar 14, 2019)

Tomorrow  is preview day and the bid is up to 275.00


----------



## uncle harry (Mar 15, 2019)

JimDawson said:


> Does Evapo Rust come in 55gal barrels?



I think does, if I remember correctly from visiting their web site. (Edit) I googled to discover that you can get 55 gal containers thru Amazon for under $800 including free shipping.


----------



## Bob Korves (Mar 15, 2019)

Electrolysis makes a lot more sense for that job than Evapo-rust. Make tanks out of lumber, plywood, and plastic sheeting (or whatever you have,) add water, washing soda. some steel or carbon rods for anodes, and a battery charger.


----------



## azshadeguy (Mar 18, 2019)

Well we can put this thread to bed . It sold for 850.00 Plus the 20% or so


----------



## cjtoombs (Mar 18, 2019)

All I can say is wow.  Must have been auction fever.


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 18, 2019)

azshadeguy said:


> Well we can put this thread to bed . It sold for 850.00 Plus the 20% or so



I knew it would be untouchable for $400.    Even Hermetic would have walked away empty-handed with his bid of $600 usd. 

Plus if it went for $850 that means there had to be at least one other person there who had bid $800.  

So at least 2 people were willing to buy the mill for $800.  Maybe more.


----------



## hermetic (Mar 19, 2019)

I have walked away from a lot of machinery! It is only worthwhile putting in hours of dirty work if it is CHEAP, or happens to be the machine that you want. Anyone can buy work!


----------



## Robo_Pi (Mar 19, 2019)

hermetic said:


> I have walked away from a lot of machinery! It is only worthwhile putting in hours of dirty work if it is CHEAP, or happens to be the machine that you want. Anyone can buy work!



I agree completely.   This is why it's so important to stand your ground on your max bid.   If you decide you'll pay, say $400 for an item at an auction, just pretend that this is all the money you have.    Period.   Obviously you'll need to have a bit more to pay for auction expenses, but when the item reaches your max bid, that's it, you're done.   Don't be tempted to bid $500 when someone bids $450.   Just walk away when you didn't get it for the price you considered it to be CHEAP.   Otherwise you'll end up with a very EXPENSIVE starting project. 

The whole idea of going to an auction in the first place is to get something CHEAP.  If you end up paying what you could have bought it for anywhere, you defeat the entire purpose of going to the auction in the first place.  

$850 is probably the absolute MAX you're going to get for that mill if you try to sell it as-is.   And you'd most likely be very hard-pressed to find anyone willing to pay that much for it in a normal setting.    It only went that high because, as someone else said, it was "Auction Fever".   Someone was willing to pay the absolute maximum price for it.   At that price it's certainly not a good starter project for a restoration.   It's just an expensive mill now that's in really bad shape.  

I could definitely find a better mill than that one for $850.

But you'd be extremely hard pressed to find one even in the same condition for less than $400.   That's almost scrap metal prices.  I had a J-head Bridgeport mill one time that I ended up taking to the metal scrap yard.  And that's exactly what I got for it.   $400 as scrap metal. 

And yes, that was a sin that I have never forgiven myself for.   Don't ask why I did it. because I can't answer that question.   At the time I was just getting rid of junk in my yard.  I actually took some antique trucks to the metal scrap yard too and I have never forgiven myself for having done that.   I have no clue what I was thinking at the time.   Apparently I wasn't thinking at all.   When I look back over the history of my life I see a person who was so stupid that it's even hard for me to believe anyone could be that stupid.   And so it goes.


----------



## hermetic (Mar 20, 2019)

the only thing I cannot forgivee myself for was turning down an Alba No2 (or maybe 3) shaper, hardly used, at a school near to me, because I had nowhere under cover to store it. I had already bought two machines, and the Tech was begging me to take it, but I didnt. It went for scrap (sob) I still kick myself for it!


----------

