# I'm falling in love with the wrong lathe!



## Robo_Pi (Mar 18, 2019)

I currently have a Chinese HQ-400 lathe/mill.  (also sold as an ENCO 109-1005)




I've been tooling it up quite extensively over the last couple months.   All the while I've been flirting with other lathes.   I've been looking at various South Bend and Sheldon lathes.  And drooling over the thought of owning one.

In the meantime I've been doing quite a bit of machining using this little combo lathe/mill.   I've been using both the lathe and the milling head extensively.   Thus far I've had very good results with every project I've done.    My biggest complaint with this lathe is that it doesn't have a quick-change gearbox.  But I've been discovering that changing gears out manually isn't really all that bad. 

Today I needed to use the lathe.  I had previously done a milling operation so it was set up to be used as a mill.   So I had to convert it back into a lathe.   No big deal, but the thought came through my mind how nice it would be to have two of these machines so I could leave one set up as a mill and the other as a lathe. 

I looked at the empty corner next to the lathe and thought to myself, "_Boy another one of these would fit into that corner just nice.  Sure would be nice to have two of these!_"

Then I started thinking that this isn't such a bad idea.  This machine has a very small footprint, it runs on 110 without the need for a VFD, it has a large swing of 17.5".  It does both milling and lathe work.   And thus far it has been more than capable of handling everything I'm likely to do.   Having two of these identical machines makes a lot of sense too as all of the tooling would be interchangeable.  

Then I started thinking, "_I actually like this lathe.  I like it a lot.  Darn it, I think I'm falling in love with it!_"

 So now what do I do?  

Should I start looking around for another one like it and just have two of these instead of dreaming of buying a more expensive larger lathe?  

From a practical perspective having two of these would actually be more realistic for the type of projects I actually do.


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## kb58 (Mar 18, 2019)

Use what you like, use what makes parts good enough for you needs. End of story.


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## Latinrascalrg1 (Mar 18, 2019)

Why not get the better lathe when get the chance and then just keep your current machine setup as a mill as the default setting! You may even get lucky to find that most of your tooling would be interchangeable with a better lathe as well.


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## benmychree (Mar 18, 2019)

Run. do not walk to the nearest exit!


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 18, 2019)

benmychree said:


> Run. do not walk to the nearest exit!



Is someone selling an ENCO 109-1005 at the nearest exit?

Yippee!  I hope I can get there before it's sold.


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## rock_breaker (Mar 19, 2019)

Latinrascalrg1 has a good point and I as an owner of 2 lathes and a mill drill that are not interchangeable am hard put for a good answer. One thought did come to mind however, you stated you do like your present machine for both functions, it would seem to me that you would gain a lot of pleasure in planning your projects and work by utilizing the interchange ability.  At this time I enjoy figuring how to hold the work to accomplish the project  but know some time is lost in alignment on different machines. 

Perhaps you could up date to a different machine in the future if you outgrew one of the pair you are currently thinking about.
Enjoy and have a good day
Ray


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 19, 2019)

rock_breaker said:


> Perhaps you could up date to a different machine in the future if you outgrew one of the pair you are currently thinking about.



I think that's what I actually came to realize today.   What I want and what a need are two entirely different things. 

I want to play with bigger machines.   But in truth the projects I work on simply don't require them.   I build robots, and it's highly unlikely that I ever need to machine anything that this little lathe/mill won't be able to handle.   So as a practical matter sticking with these smaller machines that have more versatility (i.e. being able to serve both as a lathe or a mill) actually makes far more sense.

Dag blast it.  I really had my heart set on getting some bigger machines. 

I watch too much Abom79 I guess.   

I need to find some lightweight machinist videos to watch. 

I was watching a guy who makes model steam engines.  He has a lathe smaller than mine.  I should watch more of his videos.   That will make my lathe feel huge.


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## stupoty (Mar 19, 2019)

Robo_Pi said:


> I think that's what I actually came to realize today.   What I want and what a need are two entirely different things.
> 
> I want to play with bigger machines.   But in truth the projects I work on simply don't require them.   I build robots, and it's highly unlikely that I ever need to machine anything that this little lathe/mill won't be able to handle.   So as a practical matter sticking with these smaller machines that have more versatility (i.e. being able to serve both as a lathe or a mill) actually makes far more sense.
> 
> ...



I moved up to a 13" leblond from a 9x20, it only took up about 2" more in one direction than the bench I had the 9x20 on.



Stu


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## 7milesup (Mar 19, 2019)

If the machine works well for you, why get bigger unless you have cash laying around that you don't know what to do with.   Have you watched Clickspring videos?  That guy makes incredible stuff on a small harbor freight type of mill lathe and in a shop that is smaller than my master bath.   

You might find that having a dedicated mill and larger lathe is advantageous, but unless you buy a Taiwanese unit ($$$) the quality is not going to be there.  I purchased a Precision Matthews 833T and a Precision Matthews 10-22 lathe.  The mill is made in Taiwan and the quality is much different than the lathe which is made in China.


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## markba633csi (Mar 19, 2019)

Do you find the machine long enough to put a drill chuck and full-length drills in the tailstock? That is one weakness you may encounter with the current rather short bed. Even a small Atlas is longer I think.  Making robot parts you will need to use the tailstock for drilling I'm sure.  This is also a limitation with the small Harbor Freight mini lathes. Another issue with the combo machine is that the compound is so tall with respect to the width of the ways that you may find some flexing and movement of the carriage and cutting tool on such a high "perch"
Mark


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 19, 2019)

@ Mark,

The short bed does concern me in theory.   But in practice it hasn't been a problem yet.   I do wish I had a center rest though.  In fact, I'm thinking of building one. 

I also haven't experienced any problems with the high perch yet.   But then again, most things I don't go require extreme precision so unless the flexing was causing chattering problems or something like that it probably wouldn't be to big of a deal in terms of precision.   At least for most things I make.   I just don't need real tight tolerances on most things I make. 

So far I seem to be able to turn a shaft to within a thou with no problem.  I don't currently foresee a need to do better than that.   I'm typically not making super precise stuff.  It's just not required for what I'm building.    Usually if I need a tight tolerance on a moving part I buy bearings that provide the tolerances I need, and then just machine the mounts for those bearing.  So the tolerances are taken care of by the bearings, not by my machining. 

There's always a way to get around a need for close tolerances when you are free to design the finished product.


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## Latinrascalrg1 (Mar 19, 2019)

I guess the biggest roadblock to your theory in my mind is that by learning to live within the confines and limitations of the machine you own you have set yourself up to Never Dream Bigger!  Sure learning to use what you have in order to accomplish your goal is by ALL Means an Absolute benefit in Life no Question save one!  Yes, Im more the certain that you Could Absolutely keep yourself more then busy enough completing the smaller projects but Ask yourself What If I had access to a larger machine, is there anything I have ever wanted to try to do if only I had what was necessary to accomplish???  Or you can decide to be happy with limiting future YOU's imagination by keeping it confined to a small work envelope.

Mind you the above is not me trying to convince you. That is my process, what i ask myself when im deciding on making a more expensive purchase that I weigh against cost that i choose to share so take it for what its worth.


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## 7milesup (Mar 19, 2019)

On second thought...
Since we seem to have the ability to spend YOUR money here I think you should get a PM1340GT and a PM833T.  Then you would be much happier.


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## Superburban (Mar 19, 2019)

Yes, the machines have limitations, but there is also some features that bigger machines do not have. How many here have a lathe that can fit on a benchtop, and turn 17" diameter pieces? Mine is pretty much dedicated to working on truck rims, brake rotors, and drums. All things that will not fit on my other lathes easily, and it is simpler to clean the cast iron dust off. Even my 16" Southbend will not turn a 16" truck rim. If I was starting out again, I would pick it over the Atlas that was my first machine. Even with the milling attachment, milling on a lathe, is a battle in frustration.  Yes, I would not want to use it to hog most of the meat off a 5" diameter chunk of steel, but for small stuff, like robotic parts like Robo Pi discusses, it could easily fit the bill. Having two, could help when making many of the same pieces. 2 mills? 2 lathes, or 1 each? That may fit his needs. Personally, I would look for a decent lathe for a second machine, but I do not know what types of operations Robo Pi does, so I cannot do much but discuss the pros and cons of the various machines, and support his final decision.


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 19, 2019)

Latinrascalrg1 said:


> I guess the biggest roadblock to your theory in my mind is that by learning to live within the confines and limitations of the machine you own you have set yourself up to Never Dream Bigger!



I dismiss this line of thinking as failing to recognize the reality of the situation.  I'm building robots.  This lathe/mill is all I need to accomplish this task.

What would it mean for me to "Dream Bigger"?    To change my plans and instead decide to build a spacespace to take me to Mars?

Trust me, if I change my plans to where I actually need a better machine, that option will always be available.  

Deciding to keep these machining tools for the project at hand in no way would limit what I might later choose to "Dream" about.


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 19, 2019)

Superburban said:


> Yes, the machines have limitations, but there is also some features that bigger machines do not have. How many here have a lathe that can fit on a benchtop, and turn 17" diameter pieces?



Yes the 17" swing was a major factor in my original purchase of this machine.  Having that large swing has panned out for me quite often.    

It certainly has it's "_pros_".   And it's not a bad machine overall actually.   I know a lot of people like to trash Chinese machines, but truth be known, they aren't as bad as people claim.


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## markba633csi (Mar 19, 2019)

Robo: So the next person that asks "should I buy a combo machine?"  I'm going to tell them to buy two!   Twice the fun!  heh heh


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