# Lifting turret of BP



## Jonathans (Aug 21, 2017)

I'm installing a 6" riser on my BP Boss 5 Textron base w/ V2XT head.  My shop has 8' ceiling height.
I'm thinking I need to buy/rent a gantry crane to get it done. Is there a better way?


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## 4ssss (Aug 21, 2017)

Turn the head upside down and you may be able to get an engine crane over it.


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## Cheeseking (Aug 21, 2017)

It definitely can be done with an engine hoist but you may want to remove the head first then lift the ram/turret assembly to install spacer.   To keep the weight down really.  Have to be careful the issue with most engine hoists is getting the casters on front legs far enough forward and beyond the CG so it doesn't tip on you.  I assembled my BP in the basement using an engine hoist.  Had 8' under the joists plus another 10" or so in between.   IIR I did need to use the space between joists to have  enough clearance for the hook, straps and shackles etc.   You appear to be drywalled so that may be a close one.   Even using a gantry and lifting from the eye bolt in the ram you lose bunch of headroom to the beam, chain hoist and rigging.


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## Alan H. (Aug 21, 2017)

Very nice machine! With that little head space I would build a timber frame to lift it up with.


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## Jonathans (Aug 21, 2017)

Yeah, my engine hoist legs won't get around the base enough to get positioned over the cog.   The problem I might have with a gantry crane or timber frame is that any lifting divice pretty much takes up all the available lift in itself.
MY buddy is bringing over a small chainfall today to check whether it is short enough to do the job.  Otherwise I might need to move the mill outside to do the job with a forklift.


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## RandyM (Aug 21, 2017)

Cribbing and jacks to lift it from under the head and RAM could be an other option.


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## Cheeseking (Aug 21, 2017)

Found some pics of when i was reassembling the BP


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## Alan H. (Aug 21, 2017)

Randy described it better than I did.  Timber frame to lift it up with jacks.  Your headroom is not going to likely allow anything from above.

Having moved a couple of larger mills, I would try to avoid that.


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## Bob Korves (Aug 21, 2017)

I think your idea of moving it outside and taking it apart sounds the best so far.


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## JimDawson (Aug 21, 2017)

+1  Outside, Forklift.


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## Jonathans (Aug 21, 2017)

Question. The back of the turret has that big padeye thingy sticking out. Looks like a good lift or jacking point.
If I construct a cradle to support and stabilize  the head from the table, can the table lift it?
If so, between the rear point being jacked, and the supported from tipping head, being lifted at the table end I should be able to 
get the lift required.  Lifting this way should keep it aligned as well if the head is cradled properly.  When I did this years ago
with my Millrite (a lot smaller) it was difficult to get the turret to level out.


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## Jonathans (Aug 21, 2017)

Another issue if I may.  My BP does not have a door in the base.  Is there a special way to handle the spider?  If I carefully back out the 4 bolts and lift the turret, does the spider stay in place?
My riser comes today so I haven't seen it yet.  I presume that the spider remains in place, and everything bolts back up as it was before, but with longer bolts. Correct?
Is there any reason I will need to drill a large (big enough for my hand)  access hole in the side of the base to get access to the spider from below?


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## JimDawson (Aug 21, 2017)

Jonathans said:


> Question. The back of the turret has that big padeye thingy sticking out. Looks like a good lift or jacking point.
> If I construct a cradle to support and stabilize  the head from the table, can the table lift it?
> If so, between the rear point being jacked, and the supported from tipping head, being lifted at the table end I should be able to
> get the lift required.  Lifting this way should keep it aligned as well if the head is cradled properly.  When I did this years ago
> with my Millrite (a lot smaller) it was difficult to get the turret to level out.



As long as the knee is in the full down position I think it would support the weight of the head/ram on a jack.  Normally the table is rated at around 400 lbs.  Some cribbing on the table should do it.  The eye on the back is reasonably substantial, it is the mount for the optional shaper head.  I wouldn't want to try to lift the machine from there, but it should handle the partial weight of the ram/turret just fine.  The biggest problem I see is stabilizing the head so it doesn't try to tip over.



Jonathans said:


> Another issue if I may.  My BP does not have a door in the base.  Is there a special way to handle the spider?  If I carefully back out the 4 bolts and lift the turret, does the spider stay in place?
> My riser comes today so I haven't seen it yet.  I presume that the spider remains in place, and everything bolts back up as it was before, but with longer bolts. Correct?
> Is there any reason I will need to drill a large (big enough for my hand)  access hole in the side of the base to get access to the spider from below?



The spider may want to fall out.  Is there no access port on that machine?  Normally there is a panel or door somewhere in the column.

EDIT:  I really need to work on my reading comprehension.  I see you don't have a panel.  A collapsible ''grappling hook'' on a light rope dropped through two bolt holes might be the way to go.  Just drop them into the base when done.


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## Alan H. (Aug 21, 2017)

Do you have a manual for the machine?
What does it say for the capacity of the table?   I am betting there is a spec on that and of course that assumes you are moving the table with that load.  I would not be afraid to load it well above that spec but I would not move it. 
From the parts schematic, how is the spider design dealt with on the Boss?  It is a bit different machine than the other BPs isn't it?

EDIT: meant to say if there's no access door they must have dealt with the spider in a different fashion than their more classical design.


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## Jonathans (Aug 21, 2017)

I know that its a Textron. And I think its a Boss 5, but I do not know how to identify it accurately and don't have a manual or schematic.
I do know that the head is not original. Your comment makes me want to contact the guy who restored this machine for me (halfway across the country).
He might have some valuable input for me before I do something stupid!
Jim, there is no access on this model. I think that is usual for the textron machines. Perhaps they thought it would be more rigid that way.


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## JimDawson (Aug 21, 2017)

Jonathans said:


> Jim, there is no access on this model. I think that is usual for the textron machines. Perhaps they thought it would be more rigid that way.



Take a look at my edit above.    maybe a solution.


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## Jonathans (Aug 21, 2017)

Jim,
If I don't drop the spider, will I still need to pull it up for the bolts to gain purchase? Or, will the riser sit on top of the spider and the new bolts just be able to reach the holes.
I've been searching for a diagram on this so I can understand how its engineered. No luck yet.


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## JimDawson (Aug 21, 2017)

The spider is below the turret and inside the column.  You would have to keep it at the top.

I think the riser uses longer bolts.  But not 100% sure about that.  I also looked for some information, but no luck either.  I have only worked with one machine that had a riser and I really didn't pay any attention to the details.


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## JimDawson (Aug 21, 2017)

Here is what mine looks like.  First time I have ever seen one.  I assume the BP one is similar.


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## Cheeseking (Aug 21, 2017)

Had the same head scratcher assembling mine.  I ended up using a couple pc of copper wire run up thru 2 of the ram holes to hold spider in place while the ram was positioned on the column.  Once it was in place pulling up on the wires I was able to get one of the other bolts threaded into the spider then another.  Once the 2 bolts were in I simply pushed the wires thru and they fell out the bottom of the column casting.   The other 2 bolts were easy at that point.   May not be the official or best method but worked for me.


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## Jonathans (Aug 22, 2017)

OK. I got a hold of the guy that did the rebuild for me. He's had to deal with this often and here's what he had to say for the benefit of myself and anyone else undertaking this.
First.  Don't unbolt the turret without first supporting it as it will fall forward an onto the floor.  I figured this myself, but didn't ask him how he knew this!
Second. There are small ears in the base casting below the spider.  Loosen the 4 bolts slightly.  Remove 2 bolts diagonally from each other. SLOWLY loosen the other 2 bolts so the spider lowers level and sits on the ears.
Remove the bolts.  Now lift the turret and install the riser and turret with   the new longer bolts. Its a good idea to check the threads for ease of starting in the threads of the spider before installing the riser.
Don't screw up and drop the spider.


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## Buffalo20 (Aug 22, 2017)

When I put the riser in my mill, I extended the ram and cribbed the table to the ram, then used the knee to lift the ram/head assembly up. Raised it up high enough to install the riser, then lowered the assembly down and installed the bolts.

Mine had one spider to hold the riser block to the mill and another spider to hold the ram/head assembly to the riser block.


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## f350ca (Aug 22, 2017)

They are an unruly thing to handle, thats why mine hasn't came back out. I have an overhead crane which helped a LOT. Slung around the head then the come along back to the ram balanced it. The riser should come with longer bolts. The spider as said will balance in there.







Greg


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## Jonathans (Aug 22, 2017)

Buffalo20 said:


> When I put the riser in my mill, I extended the ram and cribbed the table to the ram, then used the knee to lift the ram/head assembly up. Raised it up high enough to install the riser, then lowered the assembly down and installed the bolts.
> 
> Mine had one spider to hold the riser block to the mill and another spider to hold the ram/head assembly to the riser block.
> 
> ...



I like how you handled that.  Was the head still attached, or did you remove it?


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## Buffalo20 (Aug 22, 2017)

head was still attached


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## itsme_Bernie (Aug 23, 2017)

Here is what I do to give clearance underneath and around Machinery when I'm using an engine hoist, 2 1/2 inch angle iron, about 3 feet long, slipped down the tubes for the weight bearing legs:













.
Bernie


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## itsme_Bernie (Aug 23, 2017)

This machine is about 900lbs
Another:







.
Bernie


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## itsme_Bernie (Aug 23, 2017)

Capacity of a normal, standard Series 1 Bridgeport table, according to the literature , is 750 pounds. I don't know the capacity of yours.

Could you loosen the spider bolts about half an inch or more, start to lift the turret, and wrap some wire or something around each of the bolts in between the turrit and the column, this way when you loosen the bolts all the way, the wire at each corner will just hold the bolts up?

Now you don't have to reach inside the machine, you have control over the spider both from the wires you wrap around each corner in between


.
Bernie


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## Jonathans (Aug 23, 2017)

Bernie,
I think what you are referring to would require that the turret would need to be bolted onto the base with studs.  Unfortunately my rig is using bolts, so they lift out completely with the turret.
My table is super beefy as compared to a "normal" Series 1 table its dimensions are around 34" x 15" and is supposed to be more rigid than a standard table.  Not sure what the screw dimensions are.
I have no manual, nor can I find one, so don't know what the capacity is rated as.


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## Silverbullet (Aug 23, 2017)

Use the forklift be safe


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## Jonathans (Aug 27, 2017)

Got her done lifting the turret and head up with the table. I had considered doing this but only had the confidence to do so after seeing Buffalo20s post with the turret cribbed and strapped down to the table.





The cribbing was under the ram and another cradle under the head.
I marked the location of the bolts with a sharpie, loosened the bolts gently as to set the spider down on the ears.


After making sure all was secure I slowly manually raised the assembly with the table. As you can see
my BP doesn't have the typical table. Its quite stout and raising it didn't feel much different than normal.
I raised it 8" for the installation of the 6" riser.  All surfaces that would come into play on both the mill and the riser
were cleaned up with emery cloth, cleaned and oiled. I measured to make sure they would mate correctly prior to assembly as I didn't want to risk a jammed mis fit.  I slipped the riser in, lowered the assembly down, snugged the bolts
down a little more, tightened it up, and was done! I was pleasantly thrilled that all the components fit without fiddling
and nothing unruly happened.  Thanks to everyone who gave me advise as even if I didn't take it, it contributed to my 
process. Hopefully this can help someone who is adding a riser to their mill in the future.


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## JimDawson (Aug 27, 2017)




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## Alan H. (Aug 27, 2017)

Very well done!  Glad you didn't have to move it or rent equipment to get it done.    

Thanks for sharing here to benefit others.

EDIT: do you have a photo or two of the details/cross section of the riser itself?


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## Buffalo20 (Aug 27, 2017)

glad it worked out for you, it was flawless for me


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## Jonathans (Aug 27, 2017)

Heres a stock photo of the riser I used.




Alan H said:


> Very well done!  Glad you didn't have to move it or rent equipment to get it done.
> 
> Thanks for sharing here to benefit others.
> 
> EDIT: do you have a photo or two of the details/cross section of the riser itself?


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## sgisler (Aug 27, 2017)

Looks like a great method. I need to replace my spider; it has a stripped bolt. Feels like that ear of the spider is cracked through the threads. Talk about being creeped out; I didn't realize this until I got it home and off the trailer. The guy I bought it from lifted the machine by the eyebolt on the ram and I lifted it off the trailer at home with a sling under the ram!

I'll definitely be doing mine sooner than later now!

Stan
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Alan H. (Aug 27, 2017)

Jonathans said:


> Heres a stock photo of the riser I used.
> View attachment 240624


Thanks, did you buy it via ebay from Eisen Machinery?


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## Jonathans (Aug 27, 2017)

Alan H said:


> Thanks, did you buy it via ebay from Eisen Machinery?


I picked it up from Eisen, but through their web site. The automatic shipping calculator worked out to my benefit that way.  I was pleased with the quality and the fact that all the hardware worked.


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## Jonathans (Aug 27, 2017)

sgisler said:


> Looks like a great method. I need to replace my spider; it has a stripped bolt. Feels like that ear of the spider is cracked through the threads. Talk about being creeped out; I didn't realize this until I got it home and off the trailer. The guy I bought it from lifted the machine by the eyebolt on the ram and I lifted it off the trailer at home with a sling under the ram!
> 
> I'll definitely be doing mine sooner than later now!
> 
> ...



Stan,
I have an extra spider. Send me your address.
Jonathan


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