# Sb Fourteen Project???



## Kroll (Nov 21, 2016)

Good morning guys,well yesterday my next project arrived with a rotary phase converter.Dang what a package,which this is the first time I have ever seen a lathe like this it seems very HD.I went throught afew pages here in this section wanting to read up other members post who have gone throught a restoration project.For me I believe that this is just a take apart,do a cleaning and painting then put it back together and run it.I did find a manual here in this section up above which I printed to give me some direction.Sadly this is not my lathe but I sure wish it was cause I envision it turning out fantastic.Guys what makes me alittle nervous is the extent of the electrical,I guess this beast is variable speed?I will have to find a manual that tells ya how to operate this lathe cause its more advance than anything that I done in the past.If you have any kind of information or any links to Utubes or post or just a comment please let me know.Guessing this is a 1972 lathe???
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 Thanks guys for some direction----kroll


----------



## Kroll (Nov 22, 2016)

Good morning guys,well yesterday went pretty well breaking the lathe down into sections leading me to my next step which is cleaning the cabinet.Well each step forward there is always a step backwards which is I discover that the variable speed did not work.On the top of the head is the controls for the VS which has missing parts then where the reeves pulley(?)is guess there should be some wiring going to it. I have no ideal how this lathe work,I really think that it was push to back of the shop where it seat for yrs.So I have to figure out the VS,and figure out how to maybe fit in a VFD into this setup.Later today I will post some pics of the VS to see if anyone has been able to work throughs this.


----------



## Kroll (Nov 25, 2016)

Good morning guys,well Thankgiving is behind us now so back to my SB project.One of the things that I discovered is how the VS works since the electronics has been abandon due to parts that may have burned up or who knows why.But what the previous owner did was install a crank on the front of the cabinet thur some gears that is chain driven ties into the reeves pulley.So as you turn the handle it will either speed up or slow down the rpms.That part is great but operator (me) does not have a clue how many rpms the spindle is turning,so that will lead to another question at a later date on how I can over come that problem.Anyway as you can see in the pics above for some reason the inside of the chip pan and along the front of the chip pan and down the cabinet  is a very well rusted area that is pretty bad and will require some additional attention.So I cleaned up the cabinet and the rusted area's I treated with some Prep & Etch then I use some body filler to kinda smooth out those areas which took up a couple of days just to let all cure.So while those areas were cooking I had couple holes to plug with some 1/8 metal which welded that together then use some more filler the sand the cabinet one more time before spraying primer.We all like pictures so here afew in no kind of order,thanks for looking---kroll


----------



## brino (Nov 25, 2016)

Hi Kroll,

I am watching this thread.
Thanks for sharing it! 

-brino


----------



## Redrock (Nov 25, 2016)

Kroll said:


> Good morning guys,well yesterday went pretty well breaking the lathe down into sections leading me to my next step which is cleaning the cabinet.Well each step forward there is always a step backwards which is I discover that the variable speed did not work.On the top of the head is the controls for the VS which has missing parts then where the reeves pulley(?)is guess there should be some wiring going to it. I have no ideal how this lathe work,I really think that it was push to back of the shop where it seat for yrs.So I have to figure out the VS,and figure out how to maybe fit in a VFD into this setup.Later today I will post some pics of the VS to see if anyone has been able to work throughs this.


----------



## Redrock (Nov 25, 2016)

Looking good so far


----------



## Kroll (Nov 27, 2016)

Good afternoon guys,well I started my day this morning by donating to one of the many great guys on this forum which has help me from the first day that I join this fantastic forums.
So I started cleaning all the other major parts removing the flaking paint,rust,grease and oil by using Zeps Purple Industrial Cleaner.Guys this stuff will remove paint but if you get a drop on your arm you will know pretty quick,it does work.Anyway you know there's not much excitement in degreasing parts,but I am making alittle progress which I wanted to get several pieces prep for primer so that I can get the most out of mixing up a qt. of SW's industrial paint.Looking at the pic of the bed I sprayed the finish coat of paint so calling it good,but on the inside of the bed and the channels I am going to use a brush and paint it black which will hide that area or make it kinda invisible if that makes sense.Now of the cabinet I am going to sand it with 320grit one more time and apply a second coat of gray.As you can see the chip pan is still primer,I want to finish the cabinet then mask it off and spray the pan a lighter gray.Tomorrow I believe its going to rain so no more painting till after it clears up,so I will start cleaning up the transmission and the motor.I think that I will just clean these up and repaint them but no primer cause the paint its self looks like its in good shape just dull.The pics here are in no order,just for entertainment.Thanks for looking


----------



## Kroll (Dec 3, 2016)

Good afternoon guys,well I thought I would post some pics of my progress which is not alot due the time I get home and it getting dark around 5:30 to where I can't see.My spray booth as you can see is under the car port which makes it seem darker than what it is but it sure helps my painting look better than what it is.So during the week done some priming and then applying the finish coat.And this Saturday morning I mask off the surface that I did not want painted and I keep in mind that I could not leave the masking tape on to long cause I know it would peel off the finish paint that I applied during the week. So I sanded the primer of the pan and front part of the headstock and spray it the lighter shade of gray.For the most part on the flat surface of the chip pan it has alittle orange peel,not perfect but I let it pass.With it being cool here the paint is kinda sensitive so I will have to be careful and give it afew days to cure.And my little boss was helping me with my project,thanks for looking guys---kroll


----------



## Kroll (Dec 5, 2016)

Guys this pass weekend and this afternoon I made alittle progress,enough to do another post with some pics.What I did was black out the inside of the lathe bed and the headstock,did alittle to the cabinet.You know those places that you really don't see that well or look at.But I did get around to mounting the bed on the cabinet and installing the headstock.After getting it installed I think that I wish I would have painted the headstock the lighter shade of gray.So after doing all this I set down in the shop chair enjoyed just kicking back.Pics are in no order just something to look at.


----------



## Kroll (Dec 11, 2016)

Well guys,I make a little progress at a snails pace.Cleaning all the small parts are kinda a pain,you know taking the compound slide apart braking it down.After degreasing then cleaning again with thinner I apply a layer of body filler on those areas that were rough.After couple days I sand the areas down then brush on the first coat of primer.Not trying to get it perfectly smooth(been nice if I could) but just to get some paint on to keep the metal from rusting and filling in areas and over the filler.Next I sand all the pieces you see in the pics down smooth which did sand down to metal in some areas.After the sanding I hung the pieces up and spray another good coat of primer which did come out smooth.So going to give these pieces some air time for couple days then sand just alittle then shoot the finish coat of paint.You won't see the apron saving it for last.Figure if I get all the small pieces finish and install on the lathe I will have little room for taking the apron apart.Thanks for looking guys,enjoy the pics----kroll


----------



## brino (Dec 11, 2016)

Kroll said:


> I make a little progress at a snails pace.



I see steady, constant progress!
I wish some of my current projects could move ahead so fast.
Thanks for sharing it.
-brino


----------



## Kroll (Dec 18, 2016)

Guys,after spraying the primer then doing alittle sanding I had to apply yet some more body filler on places that my eyes had miss.Yep they are minor spots which I could have just pass them up and let it go but I'm in no hurry so taking my time.Its the weekend and the parts have been hanging for sometime so they are ready for the finish coat of paint which is the lighter shade of gray.Looking at the previous pics of the headstock which was painted a darker gray it just did not stand out so I pulled it and sand it down then spray it the lighter gray.I think now it will kinda stand out once I get the door cover and back panel on but not so much that its in your face moment.Looking at the pic of the tailstock it appears that its a different color but its not,its the same color just kinda in the sun alittle.Its cold outside so going to take Sunday off and just let paint do alittle more curing.Thanks for looking----kroll


----------



## Kroll (Dec 23, 2016)

Morning guys,well the last few afternoon been working on putting the lathe back together but hit a snag.During the painting process I use the blue masking tape to protect those areas that did not want paint on but I took so long to finish up the paint that blue tape change over to that gorilla tape.Dang it was tough getting it off so had to use a razor blade to help.Then little thinner to clean those areas again,which all this added another afternoon of work.Anyway I did get the head on and adjusted the bearings to where it kinda feels right.I would turn the spindle by hand for alittle then check for play then repeat the process.You know this is the first lathe that has an oil pump which is kinda neat,so guessing when its running via motor it shoots out a stream of oil on bearning.I also finish painting the tail stock so I just seat it on the bed to get it off the work bench,I still need to install the ram and such then it will be finish except doing the alignment.The hand wheel that is going to be a project in itself,the rim of the handwheel I was thinking of polishing to a shine and paint the spokes or paint the whole hand wheel,I don't know yet.I did clean up the badge best I could but there is some kind of paint on it which can't get off.Another thing I like about this lathe is all the badges are on using screws and not those dang drive rivits,so I use those stainless steel button cap screws which I use those types on all my projects.Guys its taking me more time than if I just put it all back together and shoot one color paint but I like the two tone paint job cause it just adds alittle custom to the project so time really not an issue.Thanks guys for checking it out----kroll


----------



## brino (Dec 23, 2016)

Hi Kroll,

It's turned out great.
The "South Bend Fourteen" badge looks pretty good from here.
What a transformation from your first pictures to the latest ones!
Nice work.

-brino


----------



## Kroll (Dec 28, 2016)

Good morning guys,well with the help of others I was able to overcome my state of depression on an issue that came out of no where.I haven't made the repairs yet cause I wanted to get as many parts installed and just off the bench.So I am back to being optimistic and I am off this week so I should be able to make alot of progress on the lathe unless I hit another snag.
Guys I finish and installed the taper attachment which took alot of work taking it apart and just cleaning it up.As most know a taper attachment just don't get use that much so it just sets and rust up,collect dirt and oil and just get nasty.So I took it apart and set it in me cleaning tank and left it there for acouple of days.After the cleaning tank not wanting to deal with the flash rush I started cleaning some more,using wire wheel grinder to remove the rust.Then with some wet/dry sandpaper and a block just went over the machine surface alittle just to get rid of the little nicks and put a shine on it.So as you can tell this little attachment put a heck of alot of work on me which took maybe a good day or so.I also put the compound slide together and went together pretty good,I think after using it some the taper jibs will have to be adjusted some more.I be dang I don't know it the dial is original to the lathe but started cleaning it up discovered that its made out of brass,is this original?Now as you notice I haven't installed the apron yet,saving it for last and I hope I will be able to slide it down the acme thread rod so that can bolt it to the saddle.The QCGB was in pretty good shape,not teeth missing,guys most of parts in there had a very thick coat of wax guessing to protect from rust.The gears all look good so just sprayed a heavy coat of "Gear Shield Extra Heavy" by Lubriplate which this stuff seems pretty good stuff.Guys I have the motor and trans all cleaned up and ready for some paint,once painted will install both on its stand and try to wrestle it into place.So maybe by the weekend will have all my loose ends done,be able to concentrate on the apron,machine bushing,and start on the dreaded electric.Here afew pics as progress is being made,thanks for looking


----------



## brino (Dec 28, 2016)

Hi Kroll,

I am no expert, but those brass dials look like a former owners upgrade to me.
Did you see a catalog number on this lathe? 
If I had that I could go thru some old catalogs and see if I can find an original picture.

-brino


----------



## Kroll (Dec 29, 2016)

This is about the 3rd SB that I have refurbish,on all the dials were the same with a satin finish.I believe it was added but why would someone replace the original,who knows.I look it over pretty good and I just don't see any type of mistakes,just looks like it was professionally done.Its a two piece,the center slips over the shaft that has two setscrews to tighten to the shaft then the dial itself that slips over the center.The dial has no #'s just the marks which all look perfect.
	

		
			
		

		
	




	

		
			
		

		
	
 It has some knurling around the outer edge to grip and rotate to adjust then a thumb screw can be tighten.I can only dream of making a dial of this quality,if I could I would make one for my Atlas that I can see better.


----------



## Kroll (Dec 30, 2016)

Dang,do I hurt! All the joints in my body,most of all my knees,which is what happens when installing the cradle for the motor and trans. in a very tight spot.Guys spent this morning getting the trans and motor bolted down to the cradle and getting the junction box mounted with a gasket.So after getting all this done I straddle the cradle and lifted it then scooted it into place but could not put it in its resting spot.After looking the top of the transmission was hitting one of the bolts that holds the bed down to the cabinet.So had to pull it all back out and remove that one bolts,then repeat all this again.Up/down,laying on my back,getting the linkage hook up to the trans. What a mess I got myself into,so after all this I started bolting down the cradle to the cabinet.The two bolts on the outside was OK but the other two on the inside I had to get into the cabinet so that I can get those bolts in which only my finger tips could reach.So after couple of hrs I finally finish getting the motor and trans installed to the point that I can say"this part is finish" but everything on me hurts even my finger tips,so I am on break for the rest of the day.Little humor guys  thanks for looking


----------



## Kroll (Dec 31, 2016)

Morning guys,well yesterday afternoon I just did a little cleaning of the shop putting tools away and figuring out what else I have to finish.So not feeling like getting dirty again I though I would install few of the oil hole covers.So how hard can that be,well over all my projects installing them without damage was a struggle for me,till I came across the answer either here or somewhere's else.Yea I know its not big deal till you have to buy several of them then it becomes hard to see your moneys worth.Well the 3/16 are not to much from McMaster,1/4 not to bad but then price kinda goes up for the 5/16 but hold on those dang 3/8 oil hole covers and you need 6 of them at almost 10.00 ea don't pass out now.So you see why care needs to be taken to install these little treasures or golden nuggets.Using someone else's ideal I took couple bolts,cut the threads off then face the bolts and drill out a small hole using a center drill.Now I can install these like a professional.So I had an easy afternoon,for once it went well.


----------



## Kroll (Jan 1, 2017)

Well guys I started on the apron,and it all came apart with no issues,so I was stressing over nothing(at moment).You know as I go along taking this lathe apart then the apron I get the feeling that I am not the first one.You know coming across something that's not original or maybe factory looking.Well that feeling came true while doing a good cleaning on the apron.My intent was just clean it and check out the teeth making sure none are missing and remove all the shavings down at the bottom.So removing one gear lead to another then before I knew it I had it down to just apron itself and at the bottom was a chunk of steel.I had put the apron in my cleaning tank washing it out but the chucnk of steep would not move.I look the apron all over trying to see there that piece of steel came from but found nothing.Finally getting it all cleaned taking it back to the shop I had to take a long screwdriver and just force it out.I had a curve to it so again I look to see where it came from,getting nervous again(stressing) So I wipe the steel off found that bunch of shaving were stuck to it.Set it down on my table and it stuck to one of the shafts.Well I be dang its a magnet.Someone put a magnet in the bottom when they had took the apron apart.Oh I feel so much better.On the top of the apron in the dark picture is the magnet.All in all the apron could have been left along,but again I now have piece of mind knowing all is well.Now to paint it and put it back together,just for your entertainment  here thanks for looking---kroll


----------



## Kroll (Jan 1, 2017)

Guys I had to stop for acouple minutes and share with ya'll what I just learned about assembly of the apron.I am so glad that I decided to take the worm gear back apart and check one more time.You know during taking apart an apron or whatever it is I always lay it out one piece at a time in order so that after cleaning I can put it back together the same way.So my mistake that I made I had the worm gear laying out with all the parts in order so putting it back together with the new felt,all going good so far.But after assemble the worm gear was hard to turn,not by hand but with wrench.At first I was thinking that its the new felt which I did soak them down with oil.Guys it just did not feel right so I took the pin out of the collar and remove the collar to take a look at the felt on that side.Nothing stood out what might be wrong and yes taking it back apart I layed it out in order.But the collar has a very small ridge on it that goes against the bushing which I had the collar turned the wrong way.So just flipping the collar around,will I be dang little simple mistake created such a problem.So I corrected my mistake and now it turns so easy as it should.Just one of many lifes lesson-----kroll


----------



## Brain Coral (Jan 1, 2017)

Hi Carrol 

Happy New Year...  

You are doing a top notch job on your lathe, and your documentary and photos will help many in the future.  Keep up the good work 

Brian


----------



## Kroll (Jan 25, 2017)

Afternoon guys,its been awhile since I posted any progress pics of the lathe.I had hit a snag so I work on it for sometime and started on a 4"dia round knob to adjust the reeves pulley.For the most part,all is done putting it back together except a test run.Which right now I am working on doing the electrical on the lathe and having to kinda redesign it cause someone had done some electrical rigging in the past.There was no starter mounted on the lathe,it was ran without a starter.The previous owner just use the drum switch to start/stop the machine with what you might say "No protection".I want to make it as safe as possible by mounting a starter,rpm meter,and the drum switch for those special projects that you may need to run it in reverse.Anyway the pics are just for entertainment,in no order.Maybe the next pics come when I am able to run it off a converter.Thanks for looking----kroll


----------



## FOMOGO (Jan 25, 2017)

Looking really good. You've put in a lot of work, will be nice to see it up and running. Mike


----------



## Kroll (Jan 30, 2017)

*ITS ALIVE*--Yahoooooo! Afternoon guys,yesterday and today I work on doing the electric on the lathe.As I went along I keep asking myself "Will it work" "Am I wiring it right" you know all those question you ask yourself when doubt is setting in.So I made some temporary connections then plug it in.I be dang it works,tried it in high then low(video) and the amps only change maybe .5amp.The noise that you hear I think is coming from the motor since its been setting up for some time so I think it just needs to be ran awhile.You talk about a load off the shoulders,it was a load.Its not a turn key job,but its getting closer.Thanks for looking -----kroll


----------



## Kroll (Feb 12, 2017)

Guys I I am almost finish with the lathe just doing alittle touch up on the lathe such as disassemble the china made chuck for a good cleaning since its been setting for yrs.Looking at it I would have guess maybe an hr to clean then put back together but I was wrong.Started on it around 7 which its now 11:30 and I just mounted it to the lathe.Guys you can see that someone done a little repair to the back plate by welding little extra material so that it could be machine to fit the chuck.How in the heck did swafs get between the back plate and the chuck.Guys I said make in china chuck but I have to say its a pretty dang good chuck which in one of the pics you can see that inside the bore the jaws kinda extend into the bore which is pretty neat.I have one question,I know nothing about these chucks which on the spindle there is 3 screws that I guess maybe locks the chuck in place besides the 3 stubs that stick out.What is the purpose of these 3 screws?Pics are just in random order,one day I will learn how to post pics in order.Getting close guys to finishing this thread-----kroll


----------



## Kroll (Feb 12, 2017)

I believe I got the screw figure out in pic#373,it servers as a jam screw to lock the other in place.So I am safe to start up the lathe again w/chuck installed and get to watch the tach


----------



## Kroll (Feb 13, 2017)

Guys I am closing the book on this project,I am finally calling it complete.All I have to do is make a 4" knob for adjusting the rpm which is where you see a shaft sticking out.I have to say that over the last few yrs I have done several lathes and this SB 14 is the best.Adding the tach I can adjust the rpm's to what ever.The lathe itself does run smooth but the door I made for the cabinet is made out of 1/8 steel I had put rubber washers to help with the noise cause it vibrates some.Dang you talking about a very slow feed,this can get loooooow.My Atlas is just to fast of a feed,wish it was as slow as this SB.Anyway guys thanks for following checking out the pics.I am going to try and post a Youtube on this lathe running and if it working I will edit and post a link.Thanks guys-----kroll


----------



## kvt (Feb 13, 2017)

thanks , it do look nice.   hope you have fun with it.  I know we enjoyed it.


----------



## brino (Feb 13, 2017)

@Kroll,

It looks great, you should be proud.
Thanks for bringing us along for the ride.
It was much appreciated!

-brino


----------



## FOMOGO (Feb 14, 2017)

Very nicely done. Always good to be able to check something off the list. Cheers, Mike


----------



## Glenn Brooks (Feb 14, 2017)

Kroll,  did you by chance take apart the pulleymsystem to change the belt?  Iam wondering what is the best way to do that??  I need to change the belt on my new to me Fourteen, and have read the spring tension on the pully is a bear to deal with.

Thanks
Glenn


----------



## Kroll (Feb 14, 2017)

Glenn if mine is the same as yours (reeves pulley) I screw out or open up the reeves pulley until belt was completely loose.Then I was able to take the belt off so that I could clean the inside of the upper/lower pulley.But maybe I was able to get it off cause I had the whole cradle out and the transmission was unbolted,can't remember


----------



## Glenn Brooks (Feb 19, 2017)

Thanks Kroll,  there is very little other SB Fourteeninfo floating around the internet about repairing these machines, so, your story here is quite valuable for explaining how to tear these machines down.

As a post script to your rebuild, i thought I might add a couple of bits of information I learned from tearing my Fourteen down and putting it back together.  It's very similar vintage to yours.

- regarding the V belt that drives the Variable speed "Reeves Type" pulley system.  It is not actually a Reeves drive, but does function the same way - the top pulley , on the transmission, has a large, heavy coil  spring in the pulley housing that forces the pulley closed as the bottom pulley opens and closes.  When changing the belt,  one should be careful not to unbolt, or loosen the  top pulley .  the spring will throw parts out all over, and be very difficult to compress back into place.  Just leave it alone and open the pulley system to its  slowest speed with the drive motor.  Then slip the old belt off the lower drive pulley , then take it off the driven pulley on top.  Use a 1" flat bar to gently force open the top pulley to reinstall the new belt.

Second thing I learned, - the drive pulley on the bottom is driven by a small motor that turns a stud gear. A small 'counter' device (1"diameter, round blue component in the picture below) connected to the end of the little plastic drive chain, turns 10 times then locks up at the end of its run.  

(Edit:  this device is called a three terminal potentiometer...)


It is NOT actually a free turning component -it is made with some kind of internal gear or stop that halts its spinning motion at 10 rotations  - just enuf to measure the travel of the pulley pulley back and forth to its fullest, and then most minimum extent.  So 10 rotations each direction, then stop.

I mention this in detail because IF one takes the pulley  assembly out of the frame, and  removes the lower unit drive mechanism.  This will cause the alignment of the potentiometer to be lost.  Resulting in 'over Reving' the little 'Pot'  upon reassembly and either breaking teeth off the gear, or spinning the device on its shaft and so breaking the 110v wiring connections off the attachment points.   (Ahaha, I've done this twice so far -  broke the wires and lost two teeth- until I discovered the rotation thing)

The key upon reassembly is to spin The pot to the full end of its travel, and install in the full open (slowest lathe RPM) pulley position.  This will allow the pot to rotate a full 10 revolutions on its shaft, as you increase the speed of the lathe - opening and closing completely with out breaking anything.

The SB Fourteen operator's manual warns about not changing the setting of this drive chain and gear, as "damage may result".  But the manual doesn't say what damage might occur, or how to reset the drive gear.  I believe, the above description regarding setting the defice limit to the end of its 10 revolutions will prevent such damage.

Well, that's what I've learned so far...  hopefully this will,benefit someone else who may take on a SB Fourteen project in the future.

Regards
Glenn


----------



## Kroll (Feb 19, 2017)

Thanks Glenn,I did not know that.Sometimes in this lathes life I guess that motor went out and someone change it over to where the operator would have to manually change rpms by turning the knob that they locate on the lower half of the cabinet.I wish that all the original parts for speed control was there but its not,so its one of those as/is lathes.I don't know if you have a wiring diagram but this was pass down to me so maybe it will be helpful to other members like the info that you had posted about the reeves drive motor.(I would have been one that would have mess it all up )


----------



## Kroll (Feb 19, 2017)

Maybe you have this but its neat to also have in your files.


----------



## Glenn Brooks (Feb 20, 2017)

kroll,  that is exactly the little device and gear that I wrote about.  The gear you show is a 60 tooth 3" gear, maybe a 31/2" OD gear on my lathe.  This gear drives the gear on the pulley, and a smaller plastic stud gear mounts on the motor and drives this gear.

Your electrical diagram looks very similar to the one I have...

Glenn


----------



## Glenn Brooks (Feb 20, 2017)

Took a couple of pics of the variable speed pulley system and the little plastic drive train that opens and closes the lower pulley.  Look for my twice broken blue wire.  They took pity on me the second time I brought it in for repair and said "No charge"!  Customer for life now.

For FYI, Here are the photos relating to the variable speed pulley system adjustment in the above posts:

First photo shows the configuration of the variable speed motor and drive chain that opens and closes the lower pulley.  The yellowish-white plastic gear on the end drives the potentiometer, thus sending a voltage measurement representing spindle speed to the RPM meter on top of the lathe.











This small round pot with three blue wires is the device that has a 10 revolution limit.  If not installed correctly, the large motor just off camera to the right, will force this small device to rotate on its shaft and wrap the wires till they break off the soldered joints.  Also the finer gear teeth can strip out - as shown on the brownish  gear.  The broken blue wire in the photo leads up to the RPM gauge on top of the headstock.

Glenn


----------

