# What's the proper cutting fluid



## oughtsix (Dec 12, 2014)

I have been using Tri Chem "Kleer Kut"  cutting fluid  to pump through old rifle barrels as I drill them out for relining.  All the Youtube  videos I watch  show  oil being used.     Should I be using oil instead of  fluid?  If so , what sort of oil is recommended?

Thanks, 

-06


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## Mark in Indiana (Dec 12, 2014)

Cutting fluid is for heat removal and reduction of unnecessary friction. Since my milling is casual, I use light oil. Not only does it do the job while cutting, there will always be a film of oil on the bare metal components of the machine.

Edit: the oil that I use I'd wd40 in bulk or hydraulic oil. Both are dispensed in a spray bottle.


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## Smithdoor (Dec 12, 2014)

The best one I found for drilling steel is Thread cutting oil Dark
I have never tried the other light/clear thread cutting oil
25 years age I have buy this oil by the drum 55gal. Today I just go to Home depot and buy a gal still work great for cutting and threading  steel.
Great caution watching Youtube 

Dave



oughtsix said:


> I have been using Tri Chem "Kleer Kut"  cutting fluid  to pump through old rifle barrels as I drill them out for relining.  All the Youtube  videos I watch  show  oil being used.     Should I be using oil instead of  fluid?  If so , what sort of oil is recommended?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -06


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## Redirish (Dec 12, 2014)

oughtsix said:


> I have been using Tri Chem "Kleer Kut"  cutting fluid  to pump through old rifle barrels as I drill them out for relining.  All the Youtube  videos I watch  show  oil being used.     Should I be using oil instead of  fluid?  If so , what sort of oil is recommended?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -06



The best I've used for drilling out rifle barrels is Tap Magic. Have also used dark cutting oil with good results.


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## Henrymac (Dec 12, 2014)

I am going to get a lathe soon. I was wondering about mineral oil? Would that work? Thanks.


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## Smithdoor (Dec 12, 2014)

It works for Aluminum and brass. I have try steel just does not work as good as Thread cutting oil. But mineral is lot clear and washes off good too. My self today a rarely use any oil my wife does not like the smell of oil so air is real good for wife.  

Dave 



Henrymac said:


> I am going to get a lathe soon. I was wondering about mineral oil? Would that work? Thanks.


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## Andre (Dec 12, 2014)

I was reading some stuff about homemade cutting oils, and some mentioned used motor oil. Saying the oil acted as a lubricant, carbon was a high pressure component. So I tried it, and I like it for steel. For aluminum I favor Kerosene, basically WD40 without the additives. 

Try different things until you find what works, UMO and Kerosene works great in my shop


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## Reeltor (Dec 12, 2014)

On the mill I use flood coolant, KoolMist 77 (I think?)
Keeps the cutting area free of chips and allows a more aggressive cut; especially in a pocket.
When cutting hard metals or on the lathe I use thread cutting oil from the big box store.  I don't remember if it's Lowes or Home Depot, both carry it but one is twice the cost for the same bottle.
I would not use mineral oil or motor oil, WD40 is good on aluminum.  The old timers used to use butter or cream as a thread cutting fluid on the lathe.  I don't know how they got rid of a rancid milk stink :noidea:after awhile I think the smell would make you sick.


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## Pontiac Freak (Dec 12, 2014)

In my limited experiences used motor oil smokes very badly and is a known carcinogen.  I use new auto trans fluid for steel and it smokes much less.  For aluminum I have been using wd-40 with good results.


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## Smithdoor (Dec 12, 2014)

I use this back in 70's work great Transformer oil now we know to increase the flash point they add PCB. 
I only found this till the 90's cutting oil also had PCB to increase the flash point and yes this is also found in motor oil, trans fluid and just any other oil we have used. 
I did think it was a carcinogen till I had colon cancer 5 years ago

Dave



Pontiac Freak said:


> In my limited experiences used motor oil smokes very badly and is a known carcinogen.  I use new auto trans fluid for steel and it smokes much less.  For aluminum I have been using wd-40 with good results.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Dec 12, 2014)

Hydraulic fluid is even worse for you than motor oil. I was a millwright and I don't think they ever made a hydraulics that didn't leak. 

There is a huge differences in cutting oil, our Ridgid pipe threader had a hand pump for oil, when it packed it in, we tried to using Crown cutting oil spray cans, then Rapid-Tap, better but, it still tore threads. With a new pump, same oil, same dies, we had good threads again  We were using Ridgid dark, but they make some even better for stainless.

I've known machinists and millwrights who had industrial dermatitis, and had to get out of the trades. Their hands cracked and bleed all the time. Around oil, you wear those thin nitrile groves just like wearing safety glasses.


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## Bill Gruby (Dec 12, 2014)

I have watched quietly now I am going to blow your minds --- I hardly ever use any. Tool life is just fine. I do not need to take deep cuts, .020 max and mostly .010. I have all the time in the world to get a job done. All it takes is patience.

 "Billy G"


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## Smithdoor (Dec 12, 2014)

Here one you
Go to your kitchen and get can of lard this one of best ones to use. 
I have not try lard but is sounds good the use 100 years ago. 

Dave




Downwindtracker2 said:


> Hydraulic fluid is even worse for you than motor oil. I was a millwright and I don't think they ever made a hydraulics that didn't leak.
> 
> There is a huge differences in cutting oil, our Ridgid pipe threader had a hand pump for oil, when it packed it in, we tried to using Crown cutting oil spray cans, then Rapid-Tap, better but, it still tore threads. With a new pump, same oil, same dies, we had good threads again  We were using Ridgid dark, but they make some even better for stainless.
> 
> I've known machinists and millwrights who had industrial dermatitis, and had to get out of the trades. Their hands cracked and bleed all the time. Around oil, you wear those thin nitrile groves just like wearing safety glasses.


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## John Hasler (Dec 12, 2014)

Smithdoor said:


> Here one you
> Go to your kitchen and get can of lard this one of best ones to use.
> I have not try lard but is sounds good the use 100 years ago.
> 
> Dave



I use neatsfoot oil.  It's lard from the lower legs and feet (but not hooves) of cattle.  It has a lower melting point than the usual lard and so is liquid at room temperature.  You can get it at a tack shop.  Note that neatsfoot oil compound is neatsfoot oil diluted with petroleum oil.


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## Andre (Dec 12, 2014)

Smithdoor said:


> I use this back in 70's work great Transformer oil now we know to increase the flash point they add PCB.
> I only found this till the 90's cutting oil also had PCB to increase the flash point and yes this is also found in motor oil, trans fluid and just any other oil we have used.
> I did think it was a carcinogen till I had colon cancer 5 years ago
> 
> Dave




Looks like I'll stop using UMO for now in situations where it will smoke, thank you for giving a reason not to use it 

Should be fine for tapping though, right? When your not breathing in vapors?


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## JimDawson (Dec 12, 2014)

The only time I use cutting oil on the lathe is when I'm deep drilling, tapping, or reaming.  Then I use a tapping fluid appropriate for the material I'm working in, normally dark cutting oil for steel, and Tap-Magic Aluminum for aluminium.  Some times for a really nice turned finish on aluminum, I'll hit it with some WD-40 from the spray can.

When milling aluminum I use WD-40 in my spray mist, again for tapping and reaming I use the Tap-Magic.  I normally work steel dry with an air nozzle directed at the cutter.  For deep drilling, tapping, and reaming in steel I use a dark cutting oil.  The easily work hardenable tool steels like A2, D2, A6, S7 and the like are always worked dry except for tapping.

I think I've tried every product and oil on the market, the only thing that actually worked better for me was the old tri-clor Tap-Magic formula (for steel only, it reacts with aluminum), but like anything that actually worked good, the government banned it.


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## Andre (Dec 12, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> I think I've tried every product and oil on the market, the only thing that actually worked better for me was the old tri-clor Tap-Magic formula (for steel only, it reacts with aluminum), but like anything that actually worked good, the government banned it.



They banned it for the Trich 1-1-1, it was a bad carcinogen and literally made people go crazy.


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## JimDawson (Dec 12, 2014)

Andre said:


> They banned it for the Trich 1-1-1, it was a bad carcinogen and literally made people go crazy.



Yup.  Hmmmm, maybe that's my problem.:nuts:


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## Wheresmywrench? (Dec 12, 2014)

Bill Gruby said:


> I have watched quietly now I am going to blow your minds --- I hardly ever use any. Tool life is just fine. I do not need to take deep cuts, .020 max and mostly .010. I have all the time in the world to get a job done. All it takes is patience.
> 
> "Billy G"



_Yes I agree with you Billy G!!Way back when I first learned to use a lathe in high school we never used coolant. Then I went to college to learn to be an Electrical Mechanical Engineering Technician the *"One Armed Man"* our instructor, simply said cooling fluid is for the impatient. He said a true machinist did not need cooling oil. If you did it right no oil was needed. And if the material we where working was to hot to handle when you where finished you got a failing grade. He had to be able to remove the work piece from the lathe as soon as you where finished and be able to hold it in his hand. He said there was no excuse for blue chips and hot parts!!! If you produced either you where in Big Doodoo! BLUE chips you may as well have packed up and gone home because it would be a week before you where allowed on a lathe again! 
_


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## Ulma Doctor (Dec 12, 2014)

Bacon Grease and mineral oil mix, it can be used for most metals that require lubrication.
i use it to tap,turn, drill, & mill everything from aluminum to stainless to bronze.
cheap and effective and it smells like fryin' bacon everytime i use it for milling, drilling or turning


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## Ulma Doctor (Dec 12, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> Yup.  Hmmmm, maybe that's my problem.:nuts:




i got my share of 1-1-1,:nuts::nuts:

i loved that stuff- for cleaning, there was no equal!!!!
sadly the really good cleaners will kill you, benzine solvents were good too.


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## oughtsix (Dec 12, 2014)

Wow!  Thanks for all the replies.  I guess it's all a matter of "taste",   I may go with the bacon grease!    I generally go pretty slow drilling out a barrel because I don't want to break  the drill bit,  at $75 a pop,  I hope to have them a looong time.    The machine tools class I took didn't use any  lubricant  except for tapping.  I  thought the blue chips were prettier!  Now I know better.

Thanks again, 

-06


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## gramps1951 (Dec 14, 2014)

Ulma Doctor said:


> i got my share of 1-1-1,:nuts::nuts:
> 
> i loved that stuff- for cleaning, there was no equal!!!!
> sadly the really good cleaners will kill you, benzine solvents were good too.



We had huge tanks of 1,1,1-Trichloroethane at work for cleaning parts before repairing. I loved the smell of the stuff which was hard to avoid with your head hung in a tank getting out parts!! We were told after many years it was bad for us and they took out the tanks. If it causes cancer it is going to have to compete with my heavy asbestos exposure if it wants to kill me. I still have 3 cans of Chroma-Tap I use for special tapping projects only. Hope the chemical cops don't raid my garage and take it and my asbestos hard board and cloth!!


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## John Hasler (Dec 14, 2014)

gramps1951 said:


> We had huge tanks of 1,1,1-Trichloroethane at work for cleaning parts before repairing. I loved the smell of the stuff which was hard to avoid with your head hung in a tank getting out parts!! We were told after many years it was bad for us and they took out the tanks. If it causes cancer it is going to have to compete with my heavy asbestos exposure if it wants to kill me. I still have 3 cans of Chroma-Tap I use for special tapping projects only. Hope the chemical cops don't raid my garage and take it and my asbestos hard board and cloth!!



While it's best not to breath 1,1,1-trichloroethane the main reason it has been outlawed is that it depletes ozone.


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## ki4byz (Dec 14, 2014)

Just my opinion.
  In steel 
  lubrication oil for lubrication, cutting oil for cutting.


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## Smithdoor (Dec 15, 2014)

My self today I use a vacuum it is cleaner than oil and only use oil for cutting threads.
When I had a shop ever one used thread cutting for ever thing. 
I found a vacuum in home shop is the best way for ever one. 

Dave



ki4byz said:


> Just my opinion.
> In steel
> lubrication oil for lubrication, cutting oil for cutting.


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## Ebel440 (Dec 15, 2014)

I had contact dermatitis from coolant in mills it wasn't the worst thing in the world but I still have the scars on my hands from doctors not knowing what it was and trying to freeze it off. I'm pretty sure whatever chemical was causing it has been removed for at least ten years.  I haven't had a problem with it since around 2000 I believe. The only thing I use at home is a little alumtap to keep metal from sticking to my tools.


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## Smithdoor (Dec 16, 2014)

I knew some one else 40 years that had  dermatitis from cutting 
He made his own all items need came from  the pharmacy(local drug store)
I did ask what was in the cutting. It was green in color and smell good

Dave





Ebel440 said:


> I had contact dermatitis from coolant in mills it wasn't the worst thing in the world but I still have the scars on my hands from doctors not knowing what it was and trying to freeze it off. I'm pretty sure whatever chemical was causing it has been removed for at least ten years.  I haven't had a problem with it since around 2000 I believe. The only thing I use at home is a little alumtap to keep metal from sticking to my tools.


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## Chiptosser (Dec 16, 2014)

Oughtsix

For cutting lubrication, cooling and chip flush.  Ridgid cuttting oil is very good for your application.

Yes, you can use many different concoctions. You'll just have to contend with the drawbacks of each of there own.

The animal fats are a thing of the past, for good reason. Unless you want to play with them. They a will always be out there.

But with each there are draw backs , and each may have a very specific use. But are limited at that.

Just like motor oils of the past, compared to current oils.
Cutting oils, lubes have changed for many reasons, to combine traits for better all around performance with less draw backs.

I am not looking to start a controversy, just stating what I have experienced while working for different manufacturers.

Different  materials and grades act different with different lubes and the type of tools amd tool coatings being used.  Tooling and machines have changed over the years with regard to, coolants/lubes and how it is applied.

Flooding of the coolant or cutting fluid, is a factor to consider for results desired.  As you can see, it all depends!!
:victory:


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## stupoty (Dec 16, 2014)

John Hasler said:


> I use neatsfoot oil.  It's lard from the lower legs and feet (but not hooves) of cattle.  It has a lower melting point than the usual lard and so is liquid at room temperature.  You can get it at a tack shop.  Note that neatsfoot oil compound is neatsfoot oil diluted with petroleum oil.



What colour is it? Ive got a tub of mistery cutting grease that came with my first lathe, i'm sure its some sort of animal fat but ist much yellower than lard and seperates into a yelowish thin oil and cream colourd lard if it gets left somware warm.

it works amazingly on steel and i'm starting to run low.

stuart


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## John Hasler (Dec 16, 2014)

stupoty said:


> What colour is it? Ive got a tub of mistery cutting grease that came with my first lathe, i'm sure its some sort of animal fat but ist much yellower than lard and seperates into a yelowish thin oil and cream colourd lard if it gets left somware warm.
> 
> it works amazingly on steel and i'm starting to run low.
> 
> stuart



Neatsfoot oil doesn't seperate.  It's liquid at room temperature (but not, unfortunately, in my shop just now).


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## packerfan (Dec 17, 2014)

I use a mixture of 1 part Mineral Oil, 1 part Murphy's Oil Soap and 5 parts water. Works for drilling and cutting, lubricates and helps cool - I just put it in a spray bottle and apply as needed it doesn't take much. So far (10+years) it has not caused any rusting issues on parts , tools or tooling.

I am sure the commercial solutions are probably better, but you can make a gallon of this for about $5.00


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## Doubleeboy (Dec 17, 2014)

For lathe work with carbide I cut dry.  On Steel, tapping and reaming I use either dark Mobil cutting oil or Lard Oil that is sourced from McMaster-Carr. 

You can still purchase TCE if you claim to be a scientist. A google search with come up with some sources.  It isn't cheap but its pure so you just put a few drops in a pint of your favorite oil and it makes a difference especially on stainless, or difficult to tap metals.

For aluminum I use kerosene, wd40 or lamp oil, with a dash of the wicked stuff.

michael


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## mattthemuppet2 (Dec 17, 2014)

For steel I use Ridgid Dark sulphur oil from HD/ Lowes and for aluminium I use WD40. Both make a large difference in tapping and a noticeable difference in cutting, although my cutting machines are very light weight and entirely lacking in rigidity, so the contribution of the oils might be more a reflection of that.

One thing for sure though, WD40 really helps prevent chips galling to the cutter, either an endmill, drill or toolbit. Makes a huge difference. One day I'll buy a gallon and brush/ squirt it on as using a spray can is a PITA sometimes.


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## gi_984 (Dec 17, 2014)

I've been using dark (sulfur) thread cutting oil for steel.  Applied sparingly with a acid brush.  I've had good results using kerosene on aluminum for general cutting and Tap-Magic for tapping.  I've started collecting bacon grease to use in the shop.  Does anyone use it straight?


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## Ulma Doctor (Dec 18, 2014)

gi_984;256657 I've started collecting bacon grease to use in the shop.  Does anyone use it straight?[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Yes, i have dabbled with using it straight.
> i found that 10% mineral oil mix kept the grease a little smoother and it doesn't get rancid very quickly.
> it will stay put on a drill bit spinning, tap or when turning.
> if you make a hybrid of 10-20% dark cutting oil and 80-90% bacon grease you got a metal moving mix that doesn't make you gag as badly.
> ...


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## Ulma Doctor (Dec 18, 2014)

stupoty said:


> What colour is it? Ive got a tub of mistery cutting grease that came with my first lathe, i'm sure its some sort of animal fat but ist much yellower than lard and seperates into a yelowish thin oil and cream colourd lard if it gets left somware warm.
> 
> it works amazingly on steel and i'm starting to run low.
> 
> stuart




Hi Stuart,
a presumption on my part completely,
after heating and cooling a few years the mystery stuff probably just got darker in color.
could be that it's lard oil, but i can't rule out sheep's fat, :thinking:
i have a bacon grease/mineral oil mixture that has darkened after a few seasons.


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## clevinski (Dec 23, 2014)

Bill Gruby said:


> I have watched quietly now I am going to blow your minds --- I hardly ever use any. Tool life is just fine. I do not need to take deep cuts, .020 max and mostly .010. I have all the time in the world to get a job done. All it takes is patience.
> 
> "Billy G"



Hi, Bill,

Now this is very interesting, and I'd like to understand why it's true.  :think1:  This is because I use a mini-mill and a mini-lathe, and usually limit my cuts to .020" or less anyway, though I will take heavier cuts in aluminum sometimes.  Is the reason you don't see shorter tool life due to the light cuts?  Because if that's the case, I should be fine without cutting fluid except for harder materials.  (I discovered recently while milling some "soft jaws" that "soft" is an opinion, not a statement of fact.)  Of course, cutting fluid is required for tapping (Tap Magic Pro Tap for me), drilling, etc.  I was working on a project the last few days where I was milling steel for a couple of vise stops, and used Re-Li-On, which did a great job but also made a great mess, requiring that I add a catch basin to my shop vac to catch the oil that drips back out after I vacuum up the swarf.

Any thoughts on this subject would be appreciated!


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## stupoty (Dec 23, 2014)

John Hasler said:


> Neatsfoot oil doesn't seperate.  It's liquid at room temperature (but not, unfortunately, in my shop just now).



Cold workshop bad,

thanks for the info i will keep investigating.

Stuart


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## stupoty (Dec 23, 2014)

Ulma Doctor said:


> Hi Stuart,
> a presumption on my part completely,
> after heating and cooling a few years the mystery stuff probably just got darker in color.
> could be that it's lard oil, but i can't rule out sheep's fat, :thinking:
> i have a bacon grease/mineral oil mixture that has darkened after a few seasons.



The seperation layer is like olive oil or thinner viscosity and does mix back in after a bit of mixing,  im thinking its a mix of two things(or more) it does have an animal fat kinda smell but i cant place it, definetly not backon althoug i did have to stop and make a backon sandwhich the other day when using it , hummmm

Its definetly very efective what ever it is and quite easy to clean off.

it does melt a bit like butter on toast if you put a dob of it on the tool before a cut.

Stuart


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