# Need To Rivet Handles.  No Clue On Hand Riveting.



## countryguy (Jul 29, 2015)

Hi all.   We're about to put on some handles onto the kids axe project.  Oak for now, but we have hickory and resin pours lined up also.   We have qty-3  1/4" holes up the handle to put in a rivet set. 

Can we just put in solid rivets and hammer them down w/ a rivet set of some type?  I see Copper, steel and Stainless steel types (link below of what we're thinking).   I'm not sure we could hammer down stainless or steel rivets.   Or can we?   
http://rivetsonline.com/1-4-solid-rivets-non-aluminum.html

If you know of something that puts the head on rivets I'm interested to learn any new terms or vendors out there.
I had no clue there were so many types of rivets!  WOW!~


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## Silverbullet (Jul 29, 2015)

Rivet setters aren't real exspensive . But they work well I use them doing leather , the copper rivets or brass ones peen over pretty well with the setter and a ball pein hammer aluminum will too. Steel ones should be a little more pounding but if you take your time they will outlast most any other holding devise. Plan on using an anvil or heavy piece of steel or iron to pound on . Don't even try using wood or anything that bounces. Match the setter to the size rivet you pick !


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## RJSakowski (Jul 29, 2015)

When setting rivets, use lighter blows as heavy blows tend to bend the rivet shank or split the oak.  I made my own sets.I had to replace about a hundred rivets on an aluminum boat once and made my own sets.  I had a helper outside buck up the back side of the rivet while I formed the head on the inside. It must have worked because that was thirty years ago and it still doesn't leak.

If this is decorative as well as functional (as opposed to something like a shovel  handle), I would use copper, brass, or stainless.  Copper or brass will definitely be easier than stainless but stainless is not impossible.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jul 30, 2015)

you can copy this design and make it yourself, if you are so inclined...


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## cdhknives (Jul 30, 2015)

If I understand from your earlier posts, these will be wood slabs on the side of a metal handle, right?  Same as knife handles, of which I have done many.  You should use an adhesive under the wood, a relatively thin 30 minute epoxy, for example.  The combination of epoxy and rivit is much stronger than either alone.  Plain pins work well too when epoxied in place.

When using solid stock for rivits in wood handles, flaring any but the very ends WILL split the wood in short order.  Don't ask how I know...

There is no need to use solid dome head rivits unless you just have a bunch for free.  Cut soft round rod stock for the size holes you have drilled.  The fit should be slightly tight as the wood will spring back a tiny bit.  Tap into place.  With "rivit" in position and backed solidly you can:

A) Lightly tap the end with a ball peen to mushroom the head.  This will leave a slight dome in your grip
B) If you cut almost exactly to length use a very sharp chisel and lightly tap into the end of the rivit.  Rotate and repeat.  The succession of lines from the chisel will slightly flare the end in a slow and controlled manner.  This is easier to prevent split handle slabs.

Repeat either on the other side.  Voila, homemade rivits.

The previously pictured headspinner for doming them also works with round stock.  I personally like the hammered look over the smoothed dome look.

You can also try cutlery style rivits.  Very easy to use if you have the proper countersink drill but can be done with standard drill bits if you are careful.
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/index.php?cPath=52_36_621


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## countryguy (Jul 30, 2015)

Thanks a ton!  Exactly the info we were looking for.    We are so close on this project and have learned so so much from folks like yourself who share and offer help!  

On the epoxy:  We have some product called west epoxy? It is a two part marine adhesive it seems.  The kid says everyone uses it on youtube     I hope that will work as we have a gallon of the stuff!      

On the river process: I was wondering if we should do a flat countersink of 3/16 or so and place a small washer to help keep the splitting down as the river head is mushed down into the cavity ?    Then when mushroomed over, I thought it could be ground smooth and flat.  I guess like a cutlery handle.  I will check out the link.   Thanks again.     I have a lot of respect now for the quality knife makers out there!  I can see why this is so popular.   And a very cool stress reliever.  

On the handle:  any suggestions on a good handle material for axes?   Wood is free and cheap. So we went with that but want to make something with the epoxy.  Just not sure how.    

....and tomorrow will be another day I learn something new.  

Jeff and Mitch. 



cdhknives said:


> If I understand from your earlier posts, these will be wood slabs on the side of a metal handle, right?  Same as knife handles, of which I have done many.  You should use an adhesive under the wood, a relatively thin 30 minute epoxy, for example.  The combination of epoxy and rivit is much stronger than either alone.  Plain pins work well too when epoxied in place.
> 
> When using solid stock for rivits in wood handles, flaring any but the very ends WILL split the wood in short order.  Don't ask how I know...
> 
> ...


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## Doubleeboy (Jul 30, 2015)

while not an epoxy expert by any means I use to sell the stuff and all the honcho boat builders came to buy from the store I worked in.   I certainly learned more from the customers than they did from me about epoxy.  Long story short West are the outfit to trust.  Check out their website or call for help, they are the go to pros.

michael


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## Frank W. (Jul 31, 2015)

countryguy said:


> Hi all.   We're about to put on some handles onto the kids axe project.  Oak for now, but we have hickory and resin pours lined up also.   We have qty-3  1/4" holes up the handle to put in a rivet set.
> 
> Can we just put in solid rivets and hammer them down w/ a rivet set of some type?  I see Copper, steel and Stainless steel types (link below of what we're thinking).   I'm not sure we could hammer down stainless or steel rivets.   Or can we?
> http://rivetsonline.com/1-4-solid-rivets-non-aluminum.html
> ...



No problem using steel rivets, just need some mild steel stock, common nails do fine and have head already formed on one end, just cut 1/4" longer than the thickness of the head.   The trick to manual cold riveting is to use a  light hammer, maybe 8oz, place the head end on a vise or steel block and use  multiple light blows.  Blows with a heavy hammer transmit the energy deeper and would bend the rivet inside the wood. You want to deform only the end you are hitting so light blows will do the trick.  If you have a ball peen hammer use the flat face to mush the head and finish with the ball face around the edges to dome it.

Bought mild steel or 316 stainless rivets  work the same way, copper is likely to be softer and and the contrast may look prettier.

If you want to get more deeply into riveting an air hammer (chisel) is useful. I have repaired many riveted aluminum boats with one.   For dome head rivets this needs a bit with a hollow in the end which can be bought or reworked from one of the chisels in the set. Also needed is a SET which is a chunk of steel with a rivet sized hole in it. Insert a solid aluminum rivet in the material, hold the SET on the back side ( SET hole over the rivet) and give a short burst of air to squeeze the layers of aluminum together. You then swap sides, your helper backs up the head of the rivet with a dolly which has a hollow to fit the rivet head if they are dome rivets or is flat for flat head rivets and you finish mushing the rivet with the air hammer.


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## Ed of all trades (Jul 31, 2015)

I learned the hard way that you need to drill the holes in the wood a little over size so the wood does not split.  If you are trying to make it look pretty use a rivet set like pictured above but if you just need it done use a small ball peen and just peen it over.  Ed


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## Bill C. (Jul 31, 2015)

countryguy said:


> Thanks a ton!  Exactly the info we were looking for.    We are so close on this project and have learned so so much from folks like yourself who share and offer help!
> 
> On the epoxy:  We have some product called west epoxy? It is a two part marine adhesive it seems.  The kid says everyone uses it on youtube     I hope that will work as we have a gallon of the stuff!
> 
> ...



My grandfather always preferred hickory for his handles.  Used a draw knife to finish shaping them.  Oak is good too.  With our boy scout troop I noticed more nylon handles due to inexperienced users.   I hope you will post some photos of your finished project.


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## cdhknives (Jul 31, 2015)

Countersinking in a washer and peening a pin to lock it in place works well and is very strong, but looks crude.  If you are looking for a rustic look or totally prizing durability over looks go for it.  There are various specialized bolts that work well too...Loveless style bolts are a personal favorite for hard duty.  The only real fun with rivits to me is working with epoxy and rivits...it's messy and the epoxy acts like a thick oil and lets the wood slip.  Make sure everything is drilled correctly and dry fit first.  Be prepared for epoxy everywhere.  Painters tape is your friend.  Oversize and sanded to finish dimensions is necessary for finer work.  A proper belt grinder is great for this but files, sandpaper, and patience can work wonders.

There are lots of web pages for knifemaking that will walk you through installing slab handles.

I use lots of West brand epoxy.  Great stuff.  Any hardwood is fine, mostly I choose high grades for my knives but for utility use my choice is mesquite simply because I have truckloads of it.  Old sledgehammer handles, nice chunks of hardwood firewood, a limb from your favorite tree, whatever works...just make sure it is dry before installation because it will shrink as it dries.


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## countryguy (Aug 8, 2015)

Thanks a ton for the info CDH !   we are going w/ the loveless brands.  We never even knew they existed.   Very cool.  This project as been such a significant stepping stone and "OJT" project for the two of us.   It is a Dad/Son project that's kept us doing more and more together.   We've done the following in about 10Mos.   As a pair of newbs - We're getting along well and welcome any input and suggestions you may have too.  We're all over Youtube and Sites for knife makers.  We love the forged in fire series on H.    Learning from everywhere these days.  

Upgraded a 30Taper Mill to CNC Centroid ourselves.
Learned to Mill via some trial and error w/ our Draftsight & DolphinCam setups.   
Heat treating...  We rebuilt a thermolyne that's not in the cards long term. Instead went with an Evenheat since they are 1.5hrs away from me.  Spent time learning how to normalize,  anneal, mill, harden, and then temper the 1045 we are playing with.   We will move into some different steels in time. For now, this is our speed and budget.
Grinding-  Wheel grinding, slack grinding, platen grinding,  All on the new AMK-77 that makes more happen faster.
sharpening.   The Axe below needed a custom jig and we can sharpen the entire surface evenly and shave paper.   Seems that making jigs and tools is something we will do often as machinists??   To sharpen; We use a Tormek slow wet system. Nice to own as we  have such sharp tools now.
Wood Lathe  = a ton of fun.  Spinning up chips and making things left and right.  Handles are really smooth but we keep spinning wood to play 

So now were into the mounting and final finishing of this thing.   The kid wants the wood to look like a clear glass coating?  Polished and hard.  Not sure if that is a Urethane or Acrylic product?  Any clues welcome.  It's a hickory handle.

Thanks everyone here for the months and months of fun and help.


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## cdhknives (Aug 9, 2015)

Urethane works, but if you're up for another challenge try a superglue finish.  More Google time...LOL

Addicting, isn't it!


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## RJSakowski (Aug 9, 2015)

Nice looking axe!

I have put glass-like finishes on gun stocks and knife handles with acrylic lacquer.  It involved many coats of spray finish with a day or so between coats followed by sanding with SiC wet or dry paper and a final hand rubbing with polishing compound.  The longer you leave the coat to dry between spraying, the more completely the pores in the wood would be filled.  My late Dad was a carpenter and he paid me the back-handed compliment of asking me where I got the plastic stock for my .22.  Once the lacquer had a chance to cure properly, it was quite hard.  Curing can be accelerated by placing in a low temperature oven (think box with light bulb).

Bob


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## countryguy (Sep 29, 2015)

Hi everyone,  My Son and I are finally done with his 1st Axe project.   It came out really nice.  Included in the post are a few pics of the unit with the handle on.  We ended up turning our own Hickory handle from some dried limb wood on my lot.   To attach the handles, we used 3 SS hex screws on each side into a nut extender (?) cut in half.   The blade is 1045 steel that we used a CNC plasma table to cut out. We setup and used a CNC Mill to make the even edges all the way around.   The sharpening needed it's own custom jig and it is razorblade sharp!    The unit was all fully heat treated w/ a quench and then a temper.

This was a really fun project for us.  Learned so much.   Thanks again everyone for sharing and all the help along the way. 

Jeff and Mitch.


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## Silverbullet (Sep 29, 2015)

Very nice job . When we try new things we expand our range of knowledge and capabilities . Keep it up life's to short to not do the things you want . Times together are times well done and remembered.


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