# Quiet Clausing 13" lathe



## Bill_729 (Apr 22, 2019)

I have been attracted to Clausing 13" lathes. I used a lathe in high school, but not since.  I like the fact that the Clausing's seem to have high speed (~2000 rpm), compared to others that have been on my radar screen (1400 rpm). As a hobbyist, I don't want one that make so much noise that it's not enjoyable to use without hearing protection.  I am also insisting on a QCGB. My budget is $1.5K-5K, preferably not at the upper end of of this, but I would be willing to spend more for a nice machine. I expect this to include standard 3 and 4-jaw chucks and follow and steady rests.  Are the models  4914, 5914, etc., all "Loud"?  Please help me narrow down the models I should be searching for.  Does "Colchester" in the name mean something particular?  

Thank you,
Bill_729


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## wa5cab (Apr 22, 2019)

I don't have any idea as to how noisy a good condition Clausing lathe is.  But I don't think that they made a 13".  Such info that I have indicates 10, 12; 14.  The Colchesters however do show a 13.  

Colchester is or was a British company that Clausing bought sometime after they changed the company name from Atlas to or back to Clausing.  My impression of them is that they are generally more expensive than the Clausings.  Used equipment prices is of course all over the place but $5K for a 13" Colchester might not get you a steady or follower rest.


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## Bill_729 (Apr 22, 2019)

wa5cab said:


> $5K for a 13" Colchester might not get you a steady or follower rest.



As a newby machinist, am I greatly underestimating the task of creating one with the assistance of a mill? I have no idea whether this part would normally be hardened. Of course,  if it needs to be hardened, that would affect my point of view, but it seems like it would be a "satisfying project".    I haven't been searching, but I saw a rest yesterday for $375 on ebay...

Edit: Here's a nice one for $750.  Admittedly, it looks "well made".





						Clausing Colchester 13" Lathe for sale online | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Clausing Colchester 13" Lathe at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




Bill_729


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## wa5cab (Apr 22, 2019)

No, I can't think of any reason to harden anything on a steady or follow/follower rest.  The typical commercial ones would consist of three (steady) or two (follow) cast iron parts, some threaded parts probably of steel, and the three or two jaws which would probably be bronze unless they are roller bearing types, in which case steel.  The only down side to making one without the benefit of the proper castings would be that there would be an awful lot of metal to remove


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## Eddyde (Apr 22, 2019)

I acquired a Clausing Colchester 13" lathe about a year ago. So far its a great machine very smooth and quiet especially for a gear-head. I paid $2k about a year ago, no steady, follow rests or chucks but it did come with a taper attachment and collet closer. So I figure I got a pretty good deal considering they were going fo around $5k fully loaded and weren't many available at that time. The company is still in business and parts are available but extremely expensive. New versions of that machine are around $25k


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## benmychree (Apr 22, 2019)

Most steady and follow rest jaws are made of cast iron, although I have seen bronze jaws on a new South Bend 17" "Turnado" back in the 1960s.
Cast iron is a good bearing surface against steel and other metals.


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## john.k (Apr 22, 2019)

Colchester(600 Machinery Group) is a british company ,and they own Atlas Press co,proprietors of the Clausing name.............and the Clausing Colchesters were made in Colchester ,England,.......but some are slightly different to the standard models,in having generally a needle roller bearing belt pulley arrangement,where the standard uses bushes.......and US market models often have no provision for metric threading .


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## Bill_729 (Apr 23, 2019)

Eddyde said:


> I acquired a Clausing Colchester 13" lathe about a year ago. So far its a great machine very smooth and quiet especially for a gear-head. I paid $2k about a year ago, no steady, follow rests or chucks but it did come with a taper attachment and collet closer.



Thanks.  I think that's the lathe I would like to have. I noticed that Joe Pieczynski on YouTube uses one one those too. Still there is some "luck" involved (in being able to find one), unless I have one shipped to me, and that sounds like it could be prohibitively expensive.   Is yours 3  phase (are they all)?  If they all are, then I will need a vfd (which I am beginning to learn about). Right now I have 10 gauge wire with a 20A CB.  There is no reason I couldn't swap it out for a 30A CB if necessary.   The panel for my shop has 55/60 Amps, but I don't anticipate running a lathe and a table saw at the same time.

Bill-729


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## machPete99 (Apr 23, 2019)

I have the 12" 5914. It was fairly loud with the original reeves variable speed drive system. Thats all I heard when I tested the machine at the prior owners shop. I converted to VFD with direct drive and its much quieter. Loudest part now is some gear whine when using the feed. I could not even hear that over the reeves. I am going to be changing out the headstock oil for the next heavier grade (DTE25) to see if that helps quiet things further.

See my other thread on the VFD conversion:








						Clausing 5914 VFD
					

I did this a while back, but figured I'd post the info for others that might be interested.  This setup completely replaces the original Reeves drive and countershaft arrangement. The motor is the original Doerr 2HP 3PH unit. I am using the stock cogged belt size/length, but have fitted the...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## Eddyde (Apr 23, 2019)

Bill_729 said:


> Thanks.  I think that's the lathe I would like to have. I noticed that Joe Pieczynski on YouTube uses one one those too. Still there is some "luck" involved (in being able to find one), unless I have one shipped to me, and that sounds like it could be prohibitively expensive.   Is yours 3  phase (are they all)?  If they all are, then I will need a vfd (which I am beginning to learn about). Right now I have 10 gauge wire with a 20A CB.  There is no reason I couldn't swap it out for a 30A CB if necessary.   The panel for my shop has 55/60 Amps, but I don't anticipate running a lathe and a table saw at the same time.
> 
> Bill-729


It is the same lathe as Joe Pieczynski and yes, it's 3 phase, I think they all are. I was also thinking of getting the 15" version, which is more common and of course more more expensive, but this one popped up close by and...

The power you have should be adequate. I built a RPC to run my lathe as it has 2 motors, spindle and coolant pump. VFD's don't do multiple motors  well so 2 would be required and rewiring would be necessary as I waned to use the original controls. Also the lathe has 16 speeds which is more than enough fo me. You might want to consider the RPC approach as well. Not that VFDs are bad, I have 5 in my shop, they are just not best for everything.


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## Bill_729 (Apr 24, 2019)

Eddyde wrote:
It is the same lathe as Joe Pieczynski and yes, it's 3 phase, I think they all are. I was also thinking of getting the 15" version, which is more common and of course more more expensive, but this one popped up close by and...

-That's Quite a story!   You are your friend were quite "creative" (and "brave")!

Eddyde wrote:
I built a RPC to run my lathe as it has 2 motors, spindle and coolant pump. VFD's don't do multiple motors  well so 2 would be required and rewiring would be necessary as I waned to use the original controls. Also the lathe has 16 speeds which is more than enough fo me. You might want to consider the RPC approach as well. Not that VFDs are bad, I have 5 in my shop, they are just not best for everything.

-Thank you for the suggestion.  I don't yet know the difference between RPCs and VFDs, but I'll try to do my own homework before I ask any questions. 

By "2 motors spindle" do you mean "2-speed motor" (I noticed a 2-speed motor was an option for the lathe)?

Thanks!
Bill_729


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## Bill_729 (Apr 24, 2019)

john.k said:


> .....and US market models often have no provision for metric threading .



I will pay attention.  Thank you!   IIRC, I have seen some that they they just need some gears swapped for metric threading--which is what I would expect.

Bill_729


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## wa5cab (Apr 24, 2019)

Bill_729 said:


> Eddyde wrote:
> I built a RPC to run my lathe as it has 2 motors, spindle and coolant pump.



No.  He meant that his lathe had two 3-phase motors, one for the spindle and one for the coolant pump.


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## wa5cab (Apr 24, 2019)

Bill_729 said:


> I will pay attention.  Thank you!   IIRC, I have seen some that they they just need some gears swapped for metric threading--which is what I would expect.
> 
> Bill_729



Bear in mind that although most if not all Imperial based lathes will cut metric threads that are close enough for most threaded fastener usage, in order to make for example a lead screw the lead screw on the lathe that you are running must be metric.  And the same statement is true of cutting Imperial or inch-based threads on a metric lathe.


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## Bill_729 (Apr 24, 2019)

wa5cab said:


> No.  He meant that his lathe had two 3-phase motors, one for the spindle and one for the coolant pump.



Thank you. Eddyde typed his message clearly enough, I just read it wrong..  I had "2-speed motor" on the brain...


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## Eddyde (Apr 24, 2019)

Bill_729 said:


> I'll try to do my own homework before I ask any questions


Doing your homework is great but don't be afraid to ask any questions, we're here to help.


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## Bill_729 (Apr 25, 2019)

I read through a long thread at Practical Machinist. where they just "lambasted" the "Clausing Colchester".  "I woudn't have one in my shop" came up a couple times.   Bothered me..lol.   Anyone advise me as to how I could do better?   The Grizzly (G4003, 12"x36") was on my list initially, then I started appreciating that it surely doesn't have "hardened gears", and who knows what else.. Not only that, it's top speed is 1400 rpm (and, as you most-assuredly know, it is not uncommon for older lathes of this class to have a top speed of 1200 rpm). My gut feeling is the Colchester is "sturdier", and certainly heavier--the Grizzly is just over 1000#.   By the way, I like the RPM approach better than the RFD approach because, in my woodworking background, defacing tools is frowned upon.   The G4003 is lighter and easier to power, but I know these 2 aspects don't lead to a better machine..  I have been learning all along, so I have not been wasting my time without a lathe on hand. I think the most interesting part of most things happen in the mind anyway.  And, in the mind, clutches don't stop working!  ; )

Bill_729


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## Eddyde (Apr 25, 2019)

I for one don't believe everything I read on PM. There are many nasty trolls over there who like nothing more than to cause bad feelings and stir up trouble. That is actually one of the main reasons this site came into existence, so people could get friendly, constructive advice, free from putdowns, insults and haughty egos. 
I did my research, read many articles and threads (including that one) before deciding on the Clausing Colchester, From what I gathered, it's one of the finest lathes ever made, in its class. There is a reason the used ones still fetch relatively high dollars and the company is still in business. Mine is 40 years old and still runs smooth, solid and accurate, I'd wager it is, as or more accurate than any new lathe under $10k.


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## Rootpass (Apr 25, 2019)

“As a hobbyist, I don't want one that make so much noise that it's not enjoyable to use without hearing protection.”

I have a 5900. The drive is loud to me. My only other experience was a Southbend 9. I can see myself doing away with the Reeves drive at some point. Ive owned it for about 5 years.
But I wouldn’t say it’s not enjoyable to use because of it.


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## Holescreek (Apr 25, 2019)

I have both a 12.5x18 Cincinnati Traytop and an Clausing 5914.  The Clausing came after the Traytop and was chosen for bed length (40") and the fact that it uses the same LOO taper chucks so I didn't have to purchase another pile of chucks.

The traytop was very noisy at first but I eventually replaced some worn out gears (leadscrew to spindle) and it quieted right down.  I also made a set of change gears for it so it could cut metric threads.  I really like the Traytop control layout better than the clausing, but it's really about what you get used to.   I appreciate what machPete99 did with his reeves drive (elimination) as it's a terrible design and causes me the most trouble maintenance-wise.  Replacing the seals didn't stop my leaks.  Other than that it makes a handy 2nd lathe that I can use for odd jobs in the shop and is quiet enough to hear the TV on the other side of the shop.


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## mmcmdl (Apr 25, 2019)

I run a 13" Clausing Colchester "Mark 3" in here at work . Nice machine ! We also have another 13" Clausing that is a bit newer but less ridged . Also have 2 15" Colchesters and a 15" Harrison which are all nice . Only a fool would not want any of these lathes in their shop .


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## Bill_729 (Apr 26, 2019)

Thank you to those who provided positive and reassuring feedback today. I had just spent 90 minutes "browsing Clausing lathes" and then one of my searches turned up the thread I referred to on the P. M. site.

My sentence,
"I like the RPM approach better than the RFD approach", should have been
I like the RPC approach better than the VFD approach 
I'm sorry for any inconvenience; I think I was somehow-exhausted at the time I wrote the message.

Surely my next step has to be to learn what a "reeve's drive" is.    I've seen that terminology show up a few times now. I don't mean to alarm anyone, but I started reading Harold Hall's book on milling machines yesterday..    Having watched all of his YouTube videos, I think "This Old Tony" has taught me alot about milling machines already. Of course, I'm sure the expression, "the devil is in the details", is apt.  I already know what "parallels" are-ha.

Bill_729


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## Rootpass (Apr 26, 2019)

I love Harold Hall. The man is a genius.


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## john.k (Apr 26, 2019)

When you re comparing new machines is totally different to comparing 40 yr old machines where one is a 2 shift production job,and the other came from the army stores,or a doctors basement and is unused for 37 of those years....There is no doubt that a 1980 Colchester was a better lathe than a 13x36 Taiwan now...........but it may have cost the same dollar price 39 years ago that the 13x36 costs new now.See what a car cost in 1980,.....in 1980 I paid $10,000 near enough for a Colchester Triumph 2000........and a lot extra for chucks,a taper attachment...(nearly never used).....and a $1000 extra for a special transposing dial on the cross travel...........I reckon I was mad in those days,but money was easy to make ,and easy to keep too.............


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## Bill_729 (Apr 26, 2019)

john.k said:


> When you re comparing new machines is totally different to comparing 40 yr old machines where one is a 2 shift production job,and the other came from the army stores,or a doctors basement and is unused for 37 of those years....There is no doubt that a 1980 Colchester was a better lathe than a 13x36 Taiwan now...........but it may have cost the same dollar price 39 years ago that the 13x36 costs new now.



Since you suggested the question (and I think there are alot of people who face it!), which would you rather buy, a 30-40 year old  Colchester (not visibly worn out) or a new Chinese lathe ("Grrr"), without hardened gears?   I have no basis for knowing, but I'm thinking the Colchester is likely to outlast and outperform the new one.   FWIW, the Chinese one is 2HP 220v, and the Colchester is 5HP 3-phase, and heavier.  Harold Hall writes, in his book on mills, "it's better to buy a bit more than you'll think you'll need".  

Cheers,
Bill_729


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## Eddyde (Apr 26, 2019)

My CC was certainly not babied through at least some its life, evident by the paint wear on the headstock and chip guard, but it appears to have been well lubricated and thus is still accurate and smooth running. Every machine should be evaluated by its condition not just its history. A lathe  from a production shop but well cared for could be in much better condition than a lathe from a school that suffered multiple crashes and was poorly lubricated. Of course there are some good Chinese lathes that will do a decent job and with proper care last reasonable life, especially for hobby use. But a Colchester is a machine designed for serious industrial use and built to a very high standard of quality, when new, there would be no contest compared to a Chinese machine.


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## john.k (Apr 26, 2019)

Colchesters were never the top lathe 30 , 40 or 50 years ago.........a good lathe ,but never of the same standard as the best.......Mazak,Weiler,Monarch,Le Blond,DSG,Holbrook,etc.....but despite the ups and downs of 600 Machinery Group,the name survives intact where  most of the others dont.


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## mmcmdl (Apr 26, 2019)

Nicest lathe I've ever run was an American Pacemaker . Maybe 48"x 240" . Had a very nice tracer attachment on it and I turned many a lot of Worthington pump shafts on it over the years . Once again , it's a matter of choice as I've operated all of the above and still prefer the Clausing Colchesters in the 13"-17" swing .  Some of us like Corvettes , others Ferraris .


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## wa5cab (Apr 27, 2019)

Yep.  And some prefer Land Rovers.


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## Bill_729 (May 9, 2019)

I have been spending "far too much time" on ebay.  I noticed a Clausing Colchester 12vs made in 1988.  Was it likely made in England, or not (or made with asian parts)?  Would this model have "hardened gears"?  To facilitate my shopping and interest, can you help me narrow down the time frame when a 13" "Colchester lathe" would have "hardened gears"? I'm presupposing that if one is buying an asian lathe without hardened gears, then it would probably be better to buy a new one.    P.S.  There is a video on the history of Colchester on YouTube which is pretty good; I don't have the title handy but it probably isn't too difficult to find it.  On the other hand, an owner's manual for these lathes is generally difficult to find (for free), and isn't likely to answer my question anyway. Though I did find a manual for a 17", "8000 Series" which was informative to me.   Thank you!

Bill_729


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## Eddyde (May 11, 2019)

As far as I know any CC made will have hardened gears. I know they started using Taiwanese castings at some point but doubt any other parts by then. On that note, I have a 1987 100% Taiwan made mill that is every bit as well made as a Bridgeport. Years and geographic origins are not reliable indicators of a machines quality, Brand/model reputation are better and of course the physical condition of the individual machine. Be careful buying machines off of eBay, only buy if the seller offers 100% refund and you are going to inspect the machine in person, before you have it shipped to you.


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## Bill_729 (May 11, 2019)

Eddyde said:


> Years and geographic origins are not reliable indicators of a machines quality, Brand/model reputation are better and of course the physical condition of the individual machine. Be careful buying machines off of eBay, only buy if the seller offers 100% refund and you are going to inspect the machine in person, before you have it shipped to you.



The Practical Machinist website had a thread regarding the Colchesters that I found after I posted.  It mainly explained how they gradually moved from using imported parts, etc., etc., so that by 2002 entire machines were being imported.
The web site www.lathes.co.uk explained that the (Colchester) Model Master 2500, which I looked up, had the head gears which took the most stress hardened, but not all of them--which helps shows how complicated this matter can get. 

I appreciate your buying tips.  I definitely intend to inspect before buying.  From what I have seen, return options are, perhaps understandably, seldom generous, but it doesn't hurt to ask--and to get it in writing!  : )   One detail is that most of the companies selling are third parties who, as you may know,  may know little about the machinery they are selling.   It also seems the offerings of such parties are mostly stripped of extra chucks and rests.  A 100% satisfaction guarantee would be nice. But to be realistic, if I saw something nice at an auction, I'd probably buy it, if it looked promising. : )

Cheers,
Bill_729


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## Bill_729 (May 11, 2019)

I can't figure out why the first one, which is only 3 HP, is $8500 while the second one (5 HP) is $4950. The 2nd seems more reasonable, if not necessarily configured in an optimal way for me.









						13799 Clausing Colchester 13” x 40” Geared Head Lathe, Model 8025  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 13799 Clausing Colchester 13” x 40” Geared Head Lathe, Model 8025 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				












						13” x 40” Clausing Colchester Inch/Metric Geared Head Engine Lathe  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 13” x 40” Clausing Colchester Inch/Metric Geared Head Engine Lathe at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




The 2nd one is "halfway across the country from me", or I'd perhaps give it further consideration.  It won't hurt my feelings if anyone wants to act on either of these!   : )

Bill_729


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## jwmay (May 11, 2019)

Prices are region specific as well.  Supply and demand I suppose.  You shouldn't have any trouble finding a machine within an hour of you, that would meet your requirements Bill.  Indianapolis is large enough to have job shops closing their doors fairly regularly.  In my own area, I found an entire shop for sale for 4500 dollars.  Granted, the machines are smaller than you're wanting.  But if it can happen here in BFE, there's no reason it can't happen in Indianapolis, on a larger scale.


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## Eddyde (May 11, 2019)

Check this place out, it's where many dealers get their stuff from.








						Used Industrial Equipment For Sale
					

Used Industrial Equipment For Sale https://hgrinc.com




					hgrinc.com


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## Janderso (Jun 12, 2019)

I've been following this thread with interest. I own a Clausing Colchester 15. It has a 7.5 HP 3 phase motor a 50" bed and is in very good shape.
I am a hobby guy, not many of us go with this size lathe. Yes it's an industrial machine and I was fortunate to find one in good shape.
I don't care what the old poops on PM say, these are very well made machines. I'm going to have this lathe for many years to come.
I do need a steady rest though. That may be a bit challenging. As my skill improves I may get some help from some friends and make one.


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## Bill_729 (Jun 12, 2019)

Janderso said:


> I do need a steady rest though. That may be a bit challenging. As my skill improves I may get some help from some friends and make one.



Do you have a milling machine?  It seems like a good (moderately challenging) project to me (who still lacks a lathe). It's not like you are threading a tapered spindle (which I would classify as "challenging"!).  
As something of a "professional problem solver", I offer the simple wisdom of breaking the problem down into steps. Start by looking at examples and then make a drawing.  Think hard about where parts connect (back to those examples). Consider making a prototype out of wood. Worst case scenario, start over?

Sure, if we could make a casting, we would.  But I can't see a reason to let that stand in our way.
My thought is to bore the circular opening by attaching the stuff to a face plate.  If that configuration doesn't fit the lathe, I can't see why you can't create the base and the "business part" separately, and bolt or weld them together afterwards. 

Anyone who knows what they are doing, or others like me, feel free to help us out!   

Bill_729


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## Eddyde (Jun 13, 2019)

Janderso said:


> I don't care what the old poops on PM say, these are very well made machines. I'm going to have this lathe for many years to come.
> 
> I do need a steady rest though. That may be a bit challenging. As my skill improves I may get some help from some friends and make one.


Totally agree, in fact most of the articles on the Clausing Colchester (even some on PM) praise its accuracy, durability, etc.

Another strategy, the one I'm planning, is to get a steady rest from a different lathe and machine it to fit or make an adaptor. "Unknown" steady rests are much cheaper on eBay et al...


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## Janderso (Jun 13, 2019)

Bill, yes, I have a good mill. Sharp TMV, 3HP full size knee mill in good shape.
I also agree about taking the project by steps. I have access to some very talented guys in our local hobby group.
I thought about trying to find one that I could adapt. 
There is a machinery dealer in Sacramento. I call them from time to time looking for a steady from a parts machine.
I haven't needed one yet but one day it will be a good project. I think a follow rest would be a good place to start. Simpler design imho.


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## Bill_729 (Jun 13, 2019)

Janderso said:


> I haven't needed one yet but one day it will be a good project. I think a follow rest would be a good place to start. Simpler design imho.



Seems like if you wait for the need to arise then you have waited too long!  
I would have guessed that the steady rest might be simpler to make than the follow rest, but don't really know. 
I am eager for you to get going on it, so you can share some of the details of your experience! 

Bill_729


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## john.k (Jun 14, 2019)

Colchester gears are hardened,but are not particularly hard.......the reason for this,I think ,is to avoid tooth breakage,and tooth chipping when gears are clashed.......glass hard gears .as for instance in a truck gear box,handle very high forces not present in a lathe with a 5hp motor....if a Colchester is noisy,its always worth checking if the gears are meshing across 100% of the face......this can sometimes be corrected by altering either the sliding forks ,or the detent notches that locate gear positions.


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