# Truck Frame Rivet Substitute



## jpfabricator (Jul 26, 2015)

I'm swapping the running gear out from underneath one truck to another. The donor truck has some accessories such as spring perches on the frame that I would like to add to the truck receiving the new axle.
 The spring perches are riveted on and I was wondering what would be as close to a replacement as possible, a grade 5 or a grade 8 bolt?

 Disclaimer- I know that what I am doing is not factory.  I will resume all risks, I would just like some suggestions on what would be the closest to the hardness of the original rivets.

Sent from somewhere in East Texas Jake Parker


----------



## Silverbullet (Jul 26, 2015)

How are you getting the rivets out? Grinding , burning ,or drilling. If you can drill them they're not a harden steal but I don't think I'd use anything harder then an grade eight bolt and jam nut them too. The metal should give some without snapping in two. Further research is needed !!


----------



## Tony Wells (Jul 26, 2015)

Call WC Supply here in Tyler. They specialize in springs and chassis parts and hardware, if you want to go back with original style rivets. Otherwise I'd probably use grade 8 bolts, but buy them long enough to allow the non-threaded area to bear the load of the joined members. You could then saw off the excess threads.


----------



## jpfabricator (Jul 26, 2015)

Center punch and drill first, grind off head second, beat into submission third. 
I have approximately 18 rivets per side.

Sent from somewhere in East Texas Jake Parker


----------



## GK1918 (Jul 27, 2015)

Very common in our shop; replacing perches.  In fact we did a F350 last week so bad don't now how the rear end did'nt fall out.
We usually buy from LMC included are grade 8 hardware.  blow off rivet heads with torch then use  air punch hammer.


----------



## T Bredehoft (Jul 27, 2015)

On replacing rivets with bolts....verify that the bolts fit the holes snugly, that there is no possibility for movement between the pieces. In other words, don't put a 5/16 bolt in a 3/8" hole.  If need be turn the shank down to be a tap fit into the holes.


----------



## den-den (Jul 27, 2015)

The few rivets that I have taken out of a auto were much softer than a grade 8 bolt.  I suspect that either grade 5 or grade 8 would be OK; would use grade 8 if there was any doubt.


----------



## RJSakowski (Jul 27, 2015)

Since rivets are peened to form the head, I would expect the rivets will be soft. The process of forming the head also upsets the material between the heads, usually expanding to fill any void. This prevents a shearing motion between the riveted members.  When rivets are replaced on architectural structural members, the holes are reamed and fitted with tight fitting bolts.


----------



## jpfabricator (Jul 27, 2015)

As per Tonys sugrstion I called WC supply. They said a snug fitting grade 8 is sufficient. Thanks to all of y'all who replied!
Now finding time to finish this job!

Sent from somewhere in East Texas Jake Parker


----------



## jpfabricator (Jul 27, 2015)

I deheaded 16 rivets in 2 hours. Only one broken 1/8th drill bit and a smashed thumb! Now only 32 more to go!
 Surprisingly the rivets were softer than I thought they would be.

Sent from somewhere in East Texas Jake Parker


----------



## turnitupper (Jul 28, 2015)

To remove solid rivets we used grind the heads off, drill hole about 3/4 deep into rivet with a drill slightly smaller than the diameter of the rivet,insert pin punch/ masonry nail in hole, back the peened side with a fairly heavy steel rod which has a hole drilled into it's end to fit fairly loosely over the peen. give the punch a whack and the rivet comes out with minimal distortion to the rivetted material. To peen new rivets, we have used hammer drills, air chisels, small and large rotary hammer drills which have an old drill/chisel with the tip cut off and a concave drilled/ground/milled into their ends. Why not just replace the rivets with rivets?.
John.


----------



## Ed of all trades (Jul 28, 2015)

I have seen "rivets" that were made for that. they actually had rivet heads and bolt shanks.  I think that in Va you had to use these to pass inspection, but I could be wrong.  Ed


----------



## jpfabricator (Jul 28, 2015)

Had the day off today so I bought a 3/4" wide x 12" long cold chisel. Each rivet took a dozen strikes with a 2# masons hammer to be deheaded. 
A run to the local fastenal merited me some grade 8 7/16" bolts and flange nuts. I needed to make some .250" washers to take up the slack. Unfortunatly!!!! some shmuck left his torch bottles on. 
I will have to get some 1.250 x .250 strap steel tomorrow.
I will post some pictures when I get this job wrapped up.

Sent from somewhere in East Texas Jake Parker


----------



## lineman (Jul 28, 2015)

If you want to get technical, the proper way is to ream to a snug fit (tap in bolt with hammer) for a grade 8 body-bound shoulder bolt.


----------



## wrat (Jul 30, 2015)

Whether replacing big steel bridge rivets or little aluminum aircraft rivets, the process is the same.  Some of these factors have been bounced around a bit so far.

1. Remove the head.  Usually, this is centerpunch and drill, because a drill removes the material faster and cleaner than a grinder.  But run whatcha brung for this.   Take off a head, punch out the rest.  Important point: don't booger up the surrounding structure.

2. Clean up the hole.  Rivets expand.  Bolts do not.  So a sloppy hole that gets a rivet (very commonly done) is inadequate for proper bolt fitment.  A close fit between bolt shank and hole is important.  This can be problematic because if the holes were supposed to be 1/4" and they're all wallowed out, going to a 0.03" oversize fastener won't be found at Ace hardware -- you'll have to go to a fastener supplier.  Going to 5/16" (0.062" over) probably won't present a structural problem.  The key is to have good clean holes for such fatigue-critical structure as a perch.  If it was just a bump-stop -- that gets touched rarely -- then it wouldn't matter so much.

3.  Don't bear on the threads!  Have a clean piece of shank in contact with the framework.  Shanks are for loading; threads are for holding a nut.  Rely on the structure, not the friction of the structure.  The tighter that unthreaded shank fits, the better.

4.  Grade 8 does not matter.  This is the go-to 'solution' for many people, but it's not necessary, especially in this.  Sure, they're all gold and everything so it looks good and certainly can't hurt, but it's not a critical decision at all.  The strength of this joint comes solely from the fitment of the hole and shank, not from any magic the bolt material brings.  When the material thicknesses grow from sheetmetal bendups to machine fittings, then a stouter bolt is required.  A Grade 5 is stronger than the surrounding material, so it'll do fine.  Not a biggie.  Just sayin....

I think about all of this has been mentioned in one form or another.  I just wanted to wrap it up in a package because all the points matter.

Wrat


----------



## Firestopper (Jul 30, 2015)

Smaller rivets 1/2" or less, I center punch and drill head then punch out. Larger rivets get cut off using a scarfing tip (oxy/acct) being careful not to gauge the parent metal. I'v used both grade 5 or 8 bolt , as long as its a snug fit. I have encountered harden rivets in the past.


----------

