# Which lathes to consider



## skeptonomicon (Dec 2, 2020)

I am new to machining, but have some exposure through friends and work. I am planning on buying a LATHE in the <$2000 range (with additional reserve for tooling), but need advice to help narrow down the selection. To give you an idea of the kind of things I anticipate building, I have already decided that my first project is going to be building a gyroscope similar to what was shown on Clickspring YouTube channel. I was originally going to by a Sherline, but thanks to advice on this forum, realized it was probably too small to make such an object. I am now considering a Grizzly, Precision Matthews, and still considering the Sherline with risers. My requirements are to turn a 4 inch disk, to be at least 16 inch between centers, and to be a bench lathe. I also don't want to spend a lot of time correcting manufacturing problems or dealing with customer service, so I am looking at reliable brands. Being a complete novice, I won't necessarily recognize any issues with the lathe, and I won't be able to fabricate any parts to fix it, so I want to avoid no-name or generic imports. My question is, which brands other than the ones mentioned should I be considering. Any advise in this area will be appreciated.


----------



## benmychree (Dec 2, 2020)

Then, you are not going to want anything made by Atlas!  Welcome to the site!!


----------



## silence dogood (Dec 2, 2020)

Welcome.  Sounds like you want to stay small.  Is it because of limited space or you like to make stuff on the small size?   I'm going to suggest that you check out Little Machine Shop.  I own a LMS 3960 (an upgrade to the 3990).  It's a solid machine.  I've also have had very good service from them.  They also sell a tooling package that will help you get started and even save a little money.


----------



## Aukai (Dec 2, 2020)

Your title says lathe, first sentence says mill, so I'm going from the lathe point of view. These are starting out over your budget. This site has users of every brand, and has a bias toward Precision Matthews which is defendable. I'm not aware of Grizzly having the factories in China(your price range new) produce lathes to a custom specification that PM has for it's orders. PM has a large group of positive reviews, but as with all companies stuff gets through QC sometimes. To my knowledge PM has taken care of any issues, there may be a couple who wish that things could have been better. I bought a 1228 PM lathe, and  it has been very good. I had 0 experience with machining, but have learned a huge amount from the group here. Now that I have some seat time, and feel that I could use more size capacity I'm going to go to a 1340GT from PM. Start where you think you'll be happy, and you will learn a lot from the group here about how to do things. You will also find out where you want to go with your machining endeavor. There is no wrong choice, but if you have equipment in mind and ask the pluses, and minuses of different machines here, someone will chime in. welcome aboard.



			https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1022v-pm-1030v/


----------



## derfatdutchman (Dec 2, 2020)

To do what you want I would look at minimum size of 10" swing x 22" between center size. Most lathes of this size have a quick change gear box which is good as someday you will want chase threads and won't have to fool around with sets of change gears. Other things to consider spindle bore size, some like the Grizzly G0602 & G0752 have a 25mm (.984") spindle bore the Precision Matthews  PM-1022V as a 1" spindle bore that extra .0016 does not seem like much until you need it. Tool post the Grizzly's come with 4 position tool post where you will have to shim under the tool bits to get them on center, you will soon grow to hate this type of tool holder and move to replace it.  The Precision Matthews has an AXA style tool post that uses interchangeable tool holders you set the tool bit center with an adjusting nut which is much easier. They also make specific tool holders for parting tools, boring bars, etc. You could also look at old iron South Bend, Logan, Atlas but that moves into the realm of how to evaluate a machine tool.


----------



## skeptonomicon (Dec 3, 2020)

silence dogood said:


> Welcome.  Sounds like you want to stay small.  Is it because of limited space or you like to make stuff on the small size?   I'm going to suggest that you check out Little Machine Shop.  I own a LMS 3960 (an upgrade to the 3990).  It's a solid machine.  I've also have had very good service from them.  They also sell a tooling package that will help you get started and even save a little money.


I am liking what I wee on the little machine shop. The site is well designed and it seems easy to figure out all the parts I need.


----------



## skeptonomicon (Dec 3, 2020)

Ugh, I did mean lathe, I corrected it. Thanks for pointing that out.
Just to be clear, I have nothing against the lathes being built in China as long as I get support and a reasonable chance of not having to send it back. A US based importer that has good quality controls in place is OK. Being new to this, it is hard to figure out which brands to avoid and which are reputable.


----------



## Aaron_W (Dec 4, 2020)

The 7x14 lathes can be pretty good little lathes from what I've heard, but they take some work. The main issue being that they are about the cheapest lathes available so they make a lot of cost cuts to meet their budget.
Basically what you get by buying a more expensive one from a place like Little Machine Shop or Micromark is they have already done many of the improvements that people often make to them so you don't have to. I've had good luck with Little Machine Shop for other items, never had any issues with them. They also sell an extended length 7x16.

Once you get into the $1200-1500 range it seems like there is less need to rebuild them, so the higher end 7x14, 7x16, as well as the 8x16, and 9x20. This doesn't mean there is not room for more improvement, but you should be able to start working without fixing up the lathe.
The 9x20 lathes are about the largest that I would consider remotely portable, and at 250lbs portable meaning bring a friend or get an engine hoist. Unless you are a weight lifter you will not be moving it by yourself. The 10x22 lathes weigh about 100lbs more.

You mentioned in your other post you don't have a large space. If you plan on moving the lathe out of the way when not in use, here are some approximate weights to consider.

Sherline or Taig under 40lbs
7x14,17x16 100lbs
8x16 160lbs
9x20 250lbs
10x22 300+lbs

In length you are looking at needing about 3 feet up to the 9x20, the 10x22 needs about 4 feet.


You mention wanting to turn something 4" in diameter and a length of 16" between centers.

The 4" diameter should not be much of an issue for the 7" and larger lathes, but if you actually mean a part 16" long, you will need more than 16" between centers. When a lathe says 7x16 that is the theoretical maximum, but reality gets in the way.

You will not be able to turn a 7x16" cylinder, because (based on the LMS 7350 specs) you can only turn something 4.3" over the saddle. As far as length, "between centers", means between centers, two sharp points that hold the ends of the part, no chuck. Awkwardly for anything too large to fit through the spindle (bigger than 20mm) you will not be able to drill the ends of a 16" piece which is required to hold it between centers.   

If you need to maintain some mobility, then one of the LMS 7x16 lathes is probably your best bet. If you actually need to be able to work on a 16" long part, then you will not want to go with anything smaller than a 9x20 or 10x22.


Welcome to the fun, there is a lot to absorb when you first step foot into this stuff but if you like making things it is worthwhile. The lathe is a core tool, so don't short change yourself. I have a Sherline and think it is a great little lathe, and I'd love to be able to recommend one, but it really is too small for the projects you are describing.
For the kind of things you are looking at I don't think you would be disappointed with a 10x22. The PM 1022 is well regarded but is pushing your budget. Look at the tooling a lathe comes with when you are making comparisons, the PM1022 is one of the more expensive lathes in this size but it also comes with a lot of good quality tooling, more than most.

PM is often brought up for its good customer support. Grizzly is sometimes lumped into the "cheap" Chinese like Harbor Freight or random ebay sellers but they are a reputable dealer with a long history. They are a big company so probably lack some of the personal attention you get from a smaller company like Sherline, LMS or PM, but I've had nothing but competent and responsive service when I have bought an item from them. If one of their machines is a better fit to your space or budget, I would not worry about getting support if you have an issue with the machine. Most of the machines that they sell in your size range have been in production for decades.


Vintage lathes can also be a good option, but availability varies widely by location. There is also the issue of knowing what you are looking at so you don't buy a problem. This is usually an issue for people just getting into the hobby unless they know somebody who can go and look at a machine with them.


----------



## skeptonomicon (Dec 4, 2020)

Aaron, thanks, Great info. Some of this is starting to make sense. The 16" was not a hard requirement, but a nice to have. I think I would be OK if I had 10" between the center and chuck. I was confused by LMS spec of "swing above saddle" when other manufacturers where quoting swing over cross slide. Are these roughly equivalent. Ultimately I would just like to know the diameter and length of the piece I could work, but never expected this would be easy to figure out.


----------



## Aaron_W (Dec 4, 2020)

skeptonomicon said:


> Aaron, thanks, Great info. Some of this is starting to make sense. The 16" was not a hard requirement, but a nice to have. I think I would be OK if I had 10" between the center and chuck. I was confused by LMS spec of "swing above saddle" when other manufacturers where quoting swing over cross slide. Are these roughly equivalent. Ultimately I would just like to know the diameter and length of the piece I could work, but never expected this would be easy to figure out.



Yes saddle, cross slide basically the same thing just different phrasing. You are basically looking for two diameters. Using the LMS lathe again, the first, larger size (7") is basically at the spindle, you can face a piece of that size. The second is what fits over the cross slide (4.3"), to turn any significant length the piece has to fit over the cross slide. The closer to that limit the more difficult it will be to do. You can turn short pieces between these numbers so somewhere between 7" and 4.3" but will be limited to how far your tool can reach. The longer you extended it the less stable and prone to chatter it will be. Still this does allow you to turn something wide but narrow that is too big to go over the cross slide, like perhaps a flywheel. 
Also the closer you get to the maximum swing, the more the lathe will be tested on its power / rigidity.


----------



## Larry$ (Dec 4, 2020)

All of the above is good information. I'm on the side of as big as you can afford. I have a larger PM lathe, good response from PM when needed. The lathe accessories from PM have been good, from Grizzly hit or miss. Something to consider, tooling and accessories that you buy for a very small lathe will likely not work (well) with a larger one when/if you move up. There is a catch to all of this, sooner or later you will want a mill.


----------



## martik777 (Dec 4, 2020)

There's a 10" Logan near you, seems overpriced but may be worth a look:
Logan 10" Lathe W/tooling Model /1875th Floor - tools - by owner -... (craigslist.org)
Having used both the Taig/Sherline and 7X lathes, I wouldn't want anything smaller than a South Bend 9A or similar Logan.  I  still have a Taig, only because I got it for almost nothing. With it's high RPM, It's useful for polishing and the odd small part.


----------



## jcmullis2 (Dec 5, 2020)

You’re not gonna get much with $2k unless you buy used. There’s a couple of decent lathes on Ali express that are within your budget. No support though. Good luck man


----------



## Larry$ (Dec 5, 2020)

New or used? Why I went with new. I had spent over a year looking for a used lathe that I trusted would serve me w/o needing work that I was unqualified to preform. I looked at old American iron. Inevitably looked quite worn. It may have just been taken out of service to be replaced by more modern equipment or it may have been too costly to bring back to industrial standards. Some showed easily seen & crudely "fixed" problems. When I checked the cost of having them moved by professionals it brought that idea to an end.  

Next move, new, what? I spent several months reading forums, catalogs, etc. With whatever that knowledge was worth I made a list. The premise was this was going to be good enough to be the only lathe I would ever buy (I'm retired and older than dirt!) well enough equipped that I could use it to do repair work on equipment in my old business. I had a corner in my business building that I could use with 3 phase power.  Result, PM1440HD. it pushed the limits of what I was willing to spend. I justified it partly because Quality Tools (PM) seemed to have a good reputation.  The big bear company was ruled out due to past experience. My lathe is Chinese and mostly good. The accessory package included is good. 

It's been 4 years now, I'm still happy with it. I've added things as I learned to do more complex (for me) operations. I already had a Jet 9X49 mill before  getting the lathe. I consider them complimentary machines. I need both to do repairs and to learn more about machining. They have been good therapy. I try to push my limits. I've spent quite a lot on all the accessories over time. Still cheaper than the bar &/or a shrink.


----------



## Aaron_W (Dec 5, 2020)

So not mentioned in this post, but in the other one he mentioned needing to move tools around in his shop space depending on which he was using.

That suggests that full size lathes are probably not in his immediate future.


----------



## Aukai (Dec 5, 2020)

My 1K lb bandsaw, 9 x 42 mill, and the 1228 lathe are all on carrymaser leveling castors, so it's a matter of how much space he has to deal with I guess.


----------



## Aaron_W (Dec 5, 2020)

Aukai said:


> My 1K lb bandsaw, 9 x 42 mill, and the 1228 lathe are all on carrymaser leveling castors, so it's a matter of how much space he has to deal with I guess.



There is also the space you have and then the space you find when you get really serious about making a tool fit. Like budgets almost everybody does have some hard limits, just a difference of where those limits are. 

I have had to get creative about making space, and I have found room I didn't believe I had 5 years ago. I remember trying to figure out where I could fit a bench grinder and small bandsaw.   

If I told 2015 me the machines I'd find room for, 2015 me would think 2020 me was on some really good hallucinogenic drugs.


----------



## skeptonomicon (Dec 6, 2020)

One can never tell what the future holds, but for now, I am limited to a single bench. For this reason, I was hoping to stick with a bench lathe. I am anticipating that I will need a bench grinder, a small drill press, an arbor press, etc. that would be brought out as needed, and share the bench. I would feel comfortable for now moving a 200# lathe by myself, a few years from now, maybe not. If it ends up over 200#, I will have to get more creative in the use of space, but this is not a game stopper. If I have an occasional need for a bigger lathe, I do have some friends that might help out.
I appreciate all the comments. Right now, I am leaning towards a LMS lathe. I don't think I can afford the PM either in space or money.


----------



## silence dogood (Dec 6, 2020)

If you decide to get the LMS 8,5", after you play with it can you get us a review?


----------



## rock_breaker (Dec 12, 2020)

Welcome aboard.

When you buy a machine the next thing should be safety glasses. 

You have mentioned Clickspring's work on You tube, there is a retired Shop teacher; Mr.Pete222 or Tubalcain on the You tube website that gives a good presentation on safety. 

There are two books that are nearly the same, _How to Run a Lathe_ by Southbend Lathe Co. . The other with a similar title by Atlas Press Co.. that I think you will find highly informative. I have the one by Atlas Press Co.. When I acquired  a mill, more technical machining information was needed so I bought a shop text book,_ Machineshop Operations and Setups_ by Lascoe, Nelson and Porter through Amazon.com. This website is your best machining problem resource. 

Have a good day
Ray


----------



## Logan Novice (Dec 28, 2020)

*PM-1022V*
It's a quality lathe and you won't be satisfied with anything smaller for very long.


----------



## jcmullis2 (Dec 28, 2020)

rock_breaker said:


> Welcome aboard.
> 
> When you buy a machine the next thing should be safety glasses.
> 
> ...


I was facing a square piece of cast the other day and the chips were going everywhere. Safety glasses are minimal protection for your eyes. I wear glasses and safety glasses are a pain with glasses. I ordered a face shield that evening and it cost about $20 problem solved. Hot steel in my eye is something I can do without. I’d feel like a total loser if I blinded myself over $20. Just saying


----------



## Aaron_W (Dec 28, 2020)

jcmullis2 said:


> I was facing a square piece of cast the other day and the chips were going everywhere. Safety glasses are minimal protection for your eyes. I wear glasses and safety glasses are a pain with glasses. I ordered a face shield that evening and it cost about $20 problem solved. Hot steel in my eye is something I can do without. I’d feel like a total loser if I blinded myself over $20. Just saying



I thought a face shield would be very awkward, but I really don't mind using it. I've actually forgotten I was wearing it a few times until I tried to scratch or wipe my face. I found some cheater safety glasses so that is what I use most of the time, but the face shield is nice for extra messy stuff like cast iron or for those times I misplace my safety glasses and don't feel like hunting them down.


----------



## Logan Novice (Dec 29, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> I thought a face shield would be very awkward, but I really don't mind using it. I've actually forgotten I was wearing it a few times until I tried to scratch or wipe my face. I found some cheater safety glasses so that is what I use most of the time, but the face shield is nice for extra messy stuff like cast iron or for those times I misplace my safety glasses and don't feel like hunting them down.



 When working with cast iron I also use a dust mask.


----------



## jcmullis2 (Dec 29, 2020)

Logan Novice said:


> When working with cast iron I also use a dust mask.


That’s a good idea, and now we all have masks. It can’t be healthy sucking up fumes from the oil, wd40, or cutting fluid either and the mask might help with that too.


----------



## Jim F (Dec 30, 2020)

skeptonomicon said:


> One can never tell what the future holds, but for now, I am limited to a single bench. For this reason, I was hoping to stick with a bench lathe. I am anticipating that I will need a bench grinder, a small drill press, an arbor press, etc. that would be brought out as needed, and share the bench. I would feel comfortable for now moving a 200# lathe by myself, a few years from now, maybe not. If it ends up over 200#, I will have to get more creative in the use of space, but this is not a game stopper. If I have an occasional need for a bigger lathe, I do have some friends that might help out.
> I appreciate all the comments. Right now, I am leaning towards a LMS lathe. I don't think I can afford the PM either in space or money.


Where will this lathe reside?
What kind of access do you have to the space ?


----------

