# Buying your first a lathe...what you wish you knew?



## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

I’m about to pull the trigger and purchase a Precision Matthews PM1030 lathe. 

What do you wish you knew before buying your first lathe? What type of tooling and accessories did you buy or wish you did or did not buy?


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## 7milesup (Aug 24, 2020)

I wished that I would have bought a bigger one.  Mine is a 1022 though.
Without knowing your skill set, I would suggest some HSS cutters that you can grind.  A boring bar set. Cutoff tool.   If you need to thread, a thread cutting set, probably from PM because he has decent prices and if you buy it when you buy the lathe the tools ship for free with the lathe.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

7milesup,

Thanks for your input. I should have specified my skill set is novice. My plan is to convert to CNC. What do you think about PM’s turning a boring tool sets? Is that a good source for buying?


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## 7milesup (Aug 24, 2020)

I do not own PM's boring sets, yet.  I need to order some.  My turning tools are from a mix of sources.  Www.latheinserts.com is one place I have bought stuff from with good results.  PMs threading set I feel is a good deal, especially since you can source the cutters from anywhere. 
There was a thread not too long about about buying lathe cutting tooling.  I will have to see if I can find it.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

Awesome thanks for sharing


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## MrWhoopee (Aug 24, 2020)

There is no need to pay higher prices for import inserted tool holders. I have bought the cheapest most economical tools I can find on eBay and Aliexpress. All have been good quality. I will not claim that the Chinese carbide inserts are equal to the big names, but I will say that they are of decent quality. I am much more likely to damage an insert through accident or abuse than wear one out, and at ~$1.00 per insert it's really a no-brainer.


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## ttabbal (Aug 24, 2020)

Read the HSS grinding model tools thread. It's long, but there is a ton of great info in there for new machinists. Even if you don't make HSS tools. The discussion around cutting forces helps with understanding why tools are shaped the way they are and how to use them to get the results you want. 

My PM1127 didn't come with a tailstock drill chuck. Consider that required equipment if it doesn't come with it. I hear the PM Precision chuck is good, Albrecht is kind of the gold standard, but not really affordable new for hobby guys. I have one from Glacern and have been very happy with it. 

One thing I really like on the 1127 over the 10x lathes from PM is the camlock chuck. The 10x uses a bolt on chuck, changing them is kind of annoying. The larger machines use a D1-4 mount, turn 3 cams with the chuck key, swap, tighten. You don't need to swap them out a ton, but there are lots of things you really need the 4 jaw for, and you don't want to just leave it there, as indicating every part in would get old fast. It is one way to get practice at it though...  

All my insert holders are the cheap import, other than a couple really nice carbide boring bars. Most of the time, I use HSS, but sometimes inserts are the right tool, and the imports work well most of the time. I certainly wouldn't tell someone just learning to use $10/ea brand name inserts. 

Hope that helps. Do some searching on this site. You will find a lot of old threads with info about various tooling, vendors that are trustworthy, etc.. One thing to search out is "leveling", alignment really. 2 collar test is one of them.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

Mrwhopper,

Are you saying you think PM’s tooling May be a bit over priced for import stuff? Got any favorite eBay sellers for insert tooling?


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## MrWhoopee (Aug 24, 2020)

ttabbal said:


> My PM1127 didn't come with a tailstock drill chuck. Consider that required equipment if it doesn't come with it. I hear the PM Precision chuck is good, Albrecht is kind of the gold standard, but not really affordable new for hobby guys. I have one from Glacern and have been very happy with it.



While I prefer an Albrecht chuck, in a lathe a decent Jacobs keyed chuck is quite acceptable. Since the chuck is not rotating and the drill tends to self-center, some of the considerations that are important on a mill are not issues on a lathe. A keyed chuck is also preferable for power tapping.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

ttabbal,

Thanks for the advice. I think I’ll buy the PM tailstock drill chuck.


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## macardoso (Aug 24, 2020)

I am happy with my purchase of a used 12x36. It is large enough for my hobby needs. Here are some things that are important to me after having used it for a few years


Size -  bigger is better and you cannot add size later on. Your actual useful swing and distance between centers is probably half of the numbers published after chuck and swing over cross slide
Easy speed adjustment - my lathe has belts with a tension lever. It is easy to get into 6/12 speeds, but the highest 6 require a few wrenches and 2-3 minutes of effort.
Power cross feed - must have one IMO. Makes parting a breeze
Cam lock spindle - mine has a 2.25x8 thread but i'd prefer a camlock spindle
Noise - my lathe is very quiet with the belts, gears are louder
Quick change gearbox is great, but changing gears from inch to metric is totally fine.
The stand matters - mine has a flimsy sheet metal stand that creates inaccuracies
Option to add a DRO
Sealed chippan for coolant would be highly desirable


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

Hi maccardoso 

I did not specify that I plan to cnc convert this. Walk me off the ledge if you think that a bad idea, lol.


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## macardoso (Aug 24, 2020)

My lathe tool starter pack is as follows:

Measuring:

6" Calipers
0-6" Micrometer set (or less as your needs require)
Telescoping bore gages
Thread pitch gage for inch and metric
A few hand files and deburring abrasives
Work holding:

3 Jaw chuck
Larger 4 jaw independent chuck
Keyless drill chuck with MT arbor
Carbide tipped dead center
Live center (CNC or extended reach is worth the investment)
QCTP with 10ish holders
Cutting Tools:

I prefer insert tool holders. I will not start that debate here. I use small positive rake tools with sharp ground edges. I have a large variety of different tools and boring bars. All are extremely low cost imports.


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## macardoso (Aug 24, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> Hi maccardoso
> 
> I did not specify that I plan to cnc convert this. Walk me off the ledge if you think that a bad idea, lol.



I'm a big CNC guy - I love it - but I have no interest in CNC'ing my lathe. It is much faster to set it up and run it without it being CNC. A lathe has a lot more "automated" features as a manual machine compared to a mill (power feed, threading, taper cutting, etc.). Unless you plan on doing complex curves, I see no benefit to going to CNC.  You lose a lot of things like feeling the machine cut and quick setup and flexability.

But that is my opinion. I also lean away from having a CNC mill unless you already have a mill for basic operations like squaring stock or drilling a few holes.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

I definitely value your opinion ( that’s why I’m here). Yes I plan on doing more complicated curved parts. I was thinking about using the lathe manually for a while to get family with it before converting


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

macardoso said:


> My lathe tool starter pack is as follows:
> 
> Measuring:
> 
> ...



Great list!


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## MrWhoopee (Aug 24, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> Mrwhopper,
> 
> Are you saying you think PM’s tooling May be a bit over priced for import stuff? Got any favorite eBay sellers for insert tooling?



You understand me correctly. I don't have any favorite sellers, just favorite prices. 

Take a gamble, drop $20-$30 on a set of tools, something like this:








						7 Set 12mm Lathe Turning Tool Holder Boring Bar W/ DCMT/CCMT Carbide Inserts USA  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 7 Set 12mm Lathe Turning Tool Holder Boring Bar W/ DCMT/CCMT Carbide Inserts USA at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




or this:








						4pcs 12mm Lathe Turning Tool Holder Boring Bar + 10 DCMT0702 Carbide Inserts Set  | eBay
					

1 x S12M-SDUCR07 Boring Bar. 1 x SDJCR1212H07 Boring Bar. 1 x SDJCL1212H07 Boring Bar. 1 x SDNCN1212H07 Boring Bar. 4 x Wrench. Material of holder: alloy steel. Inserts: DCMT070204. Item color displayed in photos may be showing slightly different on your computer monitor since monitors are not.



					www.ebay.com
				




I would recommend tools that use the CCMT and DCMT inserts. Buy a pack of each of the inserts that are used in the set you get.

Avoid these sets:








						5pc 1/2" Lathe Indexable Carbide Insert Turning Tooling Bit Holder Set US  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 5pc 1/2" Lathe Indexable Carbide Insert Turning Tooling Bit Holder Set US at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




HTH


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

MrWhoopee said:


> You understand me correctly. I don't have any favorite sellers, just favorite prices.
> 
> Take a gamble, drop $20-$30 on a set of tools, something like this:
> 
> ...



Will do!


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## markba633csi (Aug 24, 2020)

1) Learn to grind and use HSS tool bits before investing in a lot of carbide tools
2) Use the lathe manually for a while before deciding to CNC it 
-Mark


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## Skowinski (Aug 24, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> I’m about to pull the trigger and purchase a Precision Matthews PM1030 lathe.
> 
> What do you wish you knew before buying your first lathe? What type of tooling and accessories did you buy or wish you did or did not buy?



I'm on lathe #2 now.  First one, way to small.  Second one, much more substantial and larger.  Now, a few years later, keeping my eye out for an even bigger one.  Buy bigger than you think you need right now.


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## shooter123456 (Aug 24, 2020)

I am also of the opinion that carbide insert tools are the way to go.  They aren't particularly expensive and for 99% of the work I have done, they do an excellent job.  Occasionally I need something that is easier to get to with a purpose ground HSS tool, but I wouldn't say it is particularly important that you be able to use HSS before you start using carbide insert tools.


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## machPete99 (Aug 24, 2020)

The 12x36 import lathes tend to be a step up in quality on the smaller ones, if you can "swing" it.
Better to skip the upgrades if you can...


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

Machpete99,

In what way are they a step up? Will they machine faster and obtain better finishes?


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

shooter123456 said:


> I am also of the opinion that carbide insert tools are the way to go. They aren't particularly expensive and for 99% of the work I have done, they do an excellent job. Occasionally I need something that is easier to get to with a purpose ground HSS tool, but I wouldn't say it is particularly important that you be able to use HSS before you start using carbide insert tools.



That’s how I feel right now. I would definitely like to learn how to grind hss tools, but right now I think just starting is the key and cheap carbide will be the easiest way for me to get going.


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## silverchips (Aug 24, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> I’m about to pull the trigger and purchase a Precision Matthews PM1030 lathe.
> 
> What do you wish you knew before buying your first lathe? What type of tooling and accessories did you buy or wish you did or did not buy?



While recently doing a bunch of projects on my lathe while doing upgrades and repairs at the same time has given me a lot of food for thought.

I would get the largest spindle bore hole size as possible. Having 1.5" capacity (over 1") is very useful and highly recommended. I can't tell you how many projects ended up being more difficult or abandoned not having that capacity. I would recommend looking at the Precision Matthews PM-1127 VF-LB. Its similar in size.

Some other general things to look for/would want:

Quick change thread gearbox, imperial & metric threading
Variable speed and avoid having to change belts
Quick change tool post with lots of various holders
Ease of setting up DRO, having it makes life so much nicer.
Power cross feed is nice to have.
Hardened bed ways, stiff lathe that can handle deeper cuts and stainless. This can be a problem with the smaller lathes, limiting speed of finishing projects and what you'll be able to do. Do homework about what others have experienced with the lathes your interested in.
Find a lathe with as much tooling as possible. 3 & 4 jaw chucks with both jaws and if possible a collet holder set.
Avoid lathes that are projects and need fixing, look for turnkey and complete with low backlash/low wear. Find one with a good reputation

While I agree with others saying bigger is better, but space can also be a premium and could restrict you from what others are able to accommodate. Figure out your space and get the largest that you can and that is practical.

I also agree with others say about converting it to CNC, not as important on a lathe but understand why you would want it. Recommend using it manually building up experience and knowledge before converting. Maybe look into a radius making tooling like a Holdridge Radii cutter or similar knock off to get your complicated curves?

Lastly, you live in a great spot where you have many cities and industrial areas near you, South Bend and others are close to you making it fairly easy to source a good lathe and tooling. I wouldn't be surprised if you could find a good well made lathe for sale close by from someone who knows what there doing and took good care of it and a reasonable price.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

Silverchips,

Thanks, that is great advice. I agree with “avoid lathes that are projects and need fixing” and is one reason I am trying to buy something new and not break the bank.


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## silverchips (Aug 24, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> Silverchips,
> 
> Thanks, that is great advice. I agree with “avoid lathes that are projects and need fixing” and is one reason I am trying to buy something new and not break the bank.



Does the Precision Matthews PM-1127 VF-LB fit that bill?


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

silverchips said:


> Does the Precision Matthews PM-1127 VF-LB fit that bill?



I’m trying to decide. Other than size, what will I gain from it over the pm1030 if I do convert to cnc?


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## Aukai (Aug 24, 2020)

Buy once cry once....I bought a PM 1228 the 1.5" through bore has limited me twice now, work around no biggie. The D1-4 cam lock is great to have, the 28" bed got me once, I took off the tail stock to work around. This has been a good machine, and I'm a just at the bottom of the ladder starting out learning. If a stronger heaver quality machine of similar size, or a touch bigger came up I would jump on it.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

Aukai,

May I ask what the primary use for your machine is? Is it just a hobby machine or business purposes?


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## machPete99 (Aug 24, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> Machpete99,
> 
> In what way are they a step up? Will they machine faster and obtain better finishes?


From what I have seen they put more into the design as well as quality control. Better bearing/support systems, attention to details, etc. This translates to better precision and rigidness and better/deeper cut potential.


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## silverchips (Aug 24, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> I’m trying to decide. Other than size, what will I gain from it over the pm1030 if I do convert to cnc?



No sure what kind of CNC you have in mind to build but more bed size gives you more room & ease to rig the CNC set-up. The pm1127 has a much beefier and wider bed, so much stiffer than the pm1030, you also gain one more inch of cross slide travel which will be useful for CNC. CNC does an amazing amount of more cycles of movements over same area of bed ways than manual so important to find (for the long term) a bed way resistant to wear from that.


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## gr8legs (Aug 24, 2020)

macardoso said:


> Size - bigger is better and you cannot add size later on. Your actual useful swing and distance between centers is probably half of the numbers published after chuck and swing over cross slide



Also understand the tradeoffs between lathe size (maximum swing) and maximum rotating speed.

Generally the smaller the swing the faster you can rotate a part. So, if you anticipate doing a lot of small parts that need polishing go for the smaller lathe. If hogging out big chunks from hefty workpieces is your main use then go with bigger / more powerful at the expense of rotating speed. 

Every lathe is a compromise - that's why many here have more than one lathe depending on the work involved.

Stu


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## Aukai (Aug 24, 2020)

All hobby, nothing exotic


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## MrWhoopee (Aug 24, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> What do you wish you knew before buying your first lathe?



I wish I knew that I was opening a bottomless money-pit.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

Wow I have lots to think about. I definitely feel a little more confident that I’m making a educated purchase. Thanks to everyone for all your input.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

MrWhoopee said:


> I wish I knew that I was opening a bottomless money-pit.



I can see how that happens.


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## macardoso (Aug 24, 2020)

One piece of advice I've heard and unfortunately found to be true is to expect to double your purchase price of a machine within a year or two as you add tooling and measuring equipment. This can be less if you already have a lot or you are buying a tooling package with the machine.

Within the first two years, I added a QCTP, holders, lathe tools, an 8" 4 jaw chuck, and a cheap DRO. Probably a whole bunch of other stuff I am forgetting too.


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## silverchips (Aug 24, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> I can see how that happens.


Don't forget about adding the procurement of the metal stock, storing it and machines needing to cut it. Not to mention metrology

Oh and then round two of same scenario is the mill. I have no regrets, well actually I do but that is for a different thread.


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## ArmyDoc (Aug 24, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> Machpete99,
> 
> In what way are they a step up? Will they machine faster and obtain better finishes?


Yes to both.  Because they are a heavier, more rigid machine, they can take deeper cuts making them faster, and are less prone to chatter, making the finish better.  Also, they are a step up because there are fewer change gears required.

Have you determined your budget? That's really the deciding factor. Without a budget limit to say where to stop, you can ALWAYS buy a better machine. 
What is it that you want to do? I know that is easier asked than answered, because you may not have a solid idea of what you want to do / can do. But do you have any projects that you definitely want to do? They can help you determine your minimum size.

You may find yourself saying "if it's worth it" you don't mind spending a little more... which makes it harder.  But still, ask your self what features you definitely want.  For example, do you want to be able to do right and left hand threading? (If so, make sure the machine you get can do that)  If you want to be able to work on longer bar stock up to 1 1/2 inch in diameter, then the spindle bore must be at least 1.5 inches.  That rules out the 1022 and 10-30) What's the longest thing you want to work on? A rifle barrel?  Probably will need 36 inches and 40 would be better, and a 1 1/2 inch bore will be minimum bore diameter.

These questions help, but sometimes the opposite question can help too: "What do you NOT want?" If you don't want to have to spend time changing gears to do threading. that rules out the 1127. Even the 1228 has some gear changes (for 13 TPI imperial and for metric). If you only want to do imperial threading, the 12 / 13 / 14 series machines will work and you won't really need to change gears. For metric, you still will. There are machines with universal gear boxes that can do everything by moving levers... they are expensive!

Read the manuals and be familiar with any machine you are thinking about buying.  Sometimes you'll find things that will change your mind about it, and then you'll know what to look for in other machines.

Best of luck to you, and let us know what you decide!


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## pontiac428 (Aug 24, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> What do you wish you knew before buying your first lathe?



That my first lathe wouldn't be "big" enough.  I have a bench top Atlas that I can't wait to replace with a 10 HP piece of equipment with a 16" swing.  Can not wait...


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## mikey (Aug 24, 2020)

ArmyDoc said:


> *What is it that you want to do?* I know that is easier asked than answered, because you may not have a solid idea of what you want to do / can do. But do you have any projects that you definitely want to do? They can help you determine your minimum size.



Let me try to save you some time and money. I advise you to sit down and do some homework.

DEFINE for yourself what your needs are. This, more than anything else, determines the size lathe you need. You've already been told to buy the biggest lathe you can find/afford but this does not fit all of us. You are the one who will live with this lathe so focus on your own needs.
KNOW which features matter on a good lathe and know why they matter. It may take some time to research why a camlock spindle is better than a threaded or bolt-on spindle, or why a separate drive shaft to move the saddle is better than a key running in the slot of a leadscrew but these kinds of things determine how easy it is to live with the lathe and can impact on the lifespan of that lathe. You cannot add these features after the fact so figure this out before you spend money.
Fully featured lathes with all the good stuff (quick change gear box, cross slide power feed, separate drive shafts with a clutch, etc) are found on 12" lathes and bigger. Hobby class lathes often lack some of these features, tend to be cheaper and the quality of the machine is usually lower. This is not a uniform thing. Some European small lathes are made to tool room standards so you need to do your homework.
The tooling used (carbide or HSS) really depends on how much speed you can get and the rigidity of the lathe. In order to fully use the capabilities of carbide you need speed, power and rigidity. Take a 3/8" SCLCR turning tool and use it on a 10" lathe on small work and you get a result but use that same tool on a big 14" lathe on a larger work piece and the results are often much different. This has to do with getting the work to the right speed for the tool, then applying enough power and rigidity so the tool can cut as intended. When using carbide tools, the speed the lathe can run at matters and this ties in to the size of the work piece. So again, what do you intend to do with the lathe.
You intend to CNC the lathe; your call, but there is soooo much about lathe work that you have to know in order to really program a lathe to do what you want. Plan to spend a lot of time learning to use the lathe first so that you understand how this machine cuts metal or you will have a heck of a time running it as a CNC machine.
My point: figure out what you need, then find the machine that has the features you need or want. Believe it or not, upgrading lathes is not the best way to save money.


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## ArmyDoc (Aug 24, 2020)

mikey said:


> Let me try to save you some time and money. I advise you to sit down and do some homework....



Do a search on Mikey's posts and take the time to read them.  He has a wealth of knowledge and experience, a willingness to teach, and the rare ability to communicate accurately and succinctly.


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## NortonDommi (Aug 24, 2020)

A tangenital tool holder for HSS and running a part-off blade upside down in reverse or making a rear part-off tool holder. Parting off is the most frustrating for most people.


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## mikey (Aug 24, 2020)

ArmyDoc said:


> Do a search on Mikey's posts and take the time to read them.  He has a wealth of knowledge and experience, a willingness to teach, and the rare ability to communicate accurately and succinctly.



Why, thank you, Doc! What a nice thing to say ...


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

mikey said:


> Let me try to save you some time and money. I advise you to sit down and do some homework.
> 
> DEFINE for yourself what your needs are. This, more than anything else, determines the size lathe you need. You've already been told to buy the biggest lathe you can find/afford but this does not fit all of us. You are the one who will live with this lathe so focus on your own needs.
> KNOW which features matter on a good lathe and know why they matter. It may take some time to research why a camlock spindle is better than a threaded or bolt-on spindle, or why a separate drive shaft to move the saddle is better than a key running in the slot of a leadscrew but these kinds of things determine how easy it is to live with the lathe and can impact on the lifespan of that lathe. You cannot add these features after the fact so figure this out before you spend money.
> ...



Well said. I’m slightly torn between buying bigger and better and buying something to just get started. I’ve been thinking about doing this for years now and just haven’t pulled the trigger yet. If I buy a PM1030 I will do it knowing full well it’s not optimal but l think I’m okay with that to get my feet wet and start learning. However if it’s just such low quality and limiting it could do me more harm than good for education.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

NortonDommi said:


> A tangenital tool holder for HSS and running a part-off blade upside down in reverse or making a rear part-off tool holder. Parting off is the most frustrating for most people.



Can you explain why I want to do that. Sounds creative.


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## mikey (Aug 24, 2020)

Trust me; the time to save money is before you buy a lathe. Know what you're buying and why you're buying it. Buying a smaller lathe than you really need or one without the features you want will result in you selling it at a loss and buying another lathe. That is not spending wisely. Slow down, ask questions, read other threads and then, when you have a clear idea of what you want, ask the guys who own that lathe what they think. This is the smart way to do it.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

mikey said:


> Trust me; the time to save money is before you buy a lathe. Know what you're buying and why you're buying it. Buying a smaller lathe than you really need or one without the features you want will result in you selling it at a loss and buying another lathe. That is not spending wisely. Slow down, ask questions, read other threads and then, when you have a clear idea of what you want, ask the guys who own that lathe what they think. This is the smart way to do it.



Okay


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## NortonDommi (Aug 24, 2020)

I find that the tangenital tool ,(Eccentric Engineering),is something I use a lot. Versatile and simple to grand also HSS often gives a better finish on light cuts than Carbide.
The upside down part-off tool is very forgiving, chips naturally fall down and because of the way the forces act it springs upward if something goes awry rather to go ping. Insert blades allows high speed parting.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

NortonDommi said:


> I find that the tangenital tool ,(Eccentric Engineering),is something I use a lot. Versatile and simple to grand also HSS often gives a better finish on light cuts than Carbide.
> The upside down part-off tool is very forgiving, chips naturally fall down and because of the way the forces act it springs upward if something goes awry rather to go ping. Insert blades allows high speed parting.



Oh i see. Sounds like a great pro tip. Thanks


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## Saguaro Slim (Aug 24, 2020)

NortonDommi said:


> I find that the tangenital tool ,(Eccentric Engineering),is something I use a lot. Versatile and simple to grand also HSS often gives a better finish on light cuts than Carbide.
> The upside down part-off tool is very forgiving, chips naturally fall down and because of the way the forces act it springs upward if something goes awry rather to go ping. Insert blades allows high speed parting.


This is true for me - I was gifted a G0602, bought carbide insert tooling and fought surface finish, because I couldn't spin the part fast enough.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

Saguaro Slim said:


> This is true for me - I was gifted a G0602, bought carbide insert tooling and fought surface finish, because I couldn't spin the part fast enough.



How did you like the G0602 otherwise?


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## Tozguy (Aug 24, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> Well said. I’m slightly torn between buying bigger and better and buying something to just get started. I’ve been thinking about doing this for years now and just haven’t pulled the trigger yet. If I buy a PM1030 I will do it knowing full well it’s not optimal but l think I’m okay with that to get my feet wet and start learning. However if it’s just such low quality and limiting it could do me more harm than good for education.


That was my dilemma too because I had no need for a lathe but wanted to learn how to use one. Quality and precision was not an issue. I bought the largest I could install without help. Was a budget 12x36 engine lathe with lots of tools included even if it was no name stuff. Setting up the lathe was an education in itself as it needed a lot of cleaning (even if new) and there was a lot of fine tuning to do. As I gained experience I bought a QCTP, the Eccentric tangential holder, and a few other tools. Also, do not skimp on measuring tools, get good stuff and you will enjoy using them.
The 'cheap' stuff I bought was ok except for the brazed carbide tools and dial caliper that were junk.
Did not realize what a D1-4 spindle was but now I would not want anything else. 
Most of the turning I have done was to make more tools and upgrades for the lathe. If it wasn't for making tools for the lathe I would be short of projects.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

Tozguy said:


> That was my dilemma too because I had no need for a lathe but wanted to learn how to use one. Quality and precision was not an issue. I bought the largest I could install without help. Was a budget 12x36 engine lathe with lots of tools included even if it was no name stuff. Setting up the lathe was an education in itself as it needed a lot of cleaning (even if new) and there was a lot of fine tuning to do. As I gained experience I bought a QCTP, the Eccentric tangential holder, and a few other tools. Also, do not skimp on measuring tools, get good stuff and you will enjoy using them.
> The 'cheap' stuff I bought was ok except for the brazed carbide tools and dial caliper that were junk.
> Most of the turning I have done was to make more tools and upgrades for the lathe. If it wasn't for making tools for the lathe I would be short of projects.



Yeah and I understand that buying a lower end lathe is technically going to be a “waste of money” but I see it as buying an education. I just want to make sure I get a good education. I expect my second lathe to be a lot better than my first, not just slightly better.

My main concern is the comments I’m hearing about poor surface finish and lack of rigidity. If it’s impossible to obtain this, then I may be getting a “poor education”


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## Tozguy (Aug 24, 2020)

It might depend on what you consider to be a low end lathe. A G0750 for instance is not a waste of money unless it is not what you need. My lathe is a budget lathe but not a waste of money. It is plenty rigid and can produce good finish when I do my part. The learning experience I was after has largely been met. Having problems to solve and shortcomings to overcome in a lathe has its merits. Learning to get the most from any machine is the challenge.

Surface finish and rigidity are relative. If you have a clear vision of what performance you want and need in a lathe then go for that performance level in one fell swoop. If you already think that you will need a second lathe then the best time to get it is now.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

Tozguy said:


> It might depend on what you consider to be a low end lathe. A G0750 for instance is not a waste of money unless it is not what you need. My lathe is a budget lathe but not a waste of money. It is plenty rigid and can produce good finish when I do my part. The learning experience I was after has largely been met. Having problems to solve and shortcomings to overcome in a lathe has its merits. Learning to get the most from any machine is the challenge.
> 
> Surface finish and rigidity are relative. If you have a clear vision of what performance you want and need in a lathe then go for that performance level in one fell swoop. If you already think that you will need a second lathe then the best time to get it is now.



My need for a lathe is education and experience. I anticipate becoming “successful” and have more uses for a better lathe in the future. I’m just not there yet.


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## Saguaro Slim (Aug 24, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> How did you like the G0602 otherwise?


It does OK for what I need, as long as I do my part... In some ways, it has become a hobby unto itself


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## erikmannie (Aug 24, 2020)

I have had good experiences (1) buying new, (2) buying from Precision Matthews (that is the only place that I would ever buy a machine from), and (3) getting a factory installed DRO.

You are going to have a whole lot of fun with your new lathe!

When I tool up, I just go down the list: turn, face, chamfer, bore, drill, ream, single point thread, tap, part (and groove), knurl and trepan.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> I have had good experiences (1) buying new, (2) buying from Precision Matthews (that is the only place that I would ever buy a machine from), and (3) getting a factory installed DRO.
> 
> You are going to have a whole lot of fun with your new lathe!
> 
> When I tool up, I just go down the list: turn, face, chamfer, bore, drill, ream, single point thread, tap, part, knurl and trepan.



Which lathe did you get?


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## erikmannie (Aug 24, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> Which lathe did you get?


I bought a PM-1030V. I was very surprised how much fun lathe work is.

I just bought a PM-1660TL because I enjoy lathe work so much. A lathe is by far my favorite machine in the shop (second place is gas welding and third place is stick welding). Fun, fun and fun.

I elected to keep my PM-1030V as a second lathe; I wouldn’t want to ever be without it. I have had ZERO problems with it.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 24, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> I bought a PM-1030V. I was very surprised how much fun lathe work is.
> 
> I just bought a PM-1660TL because I enjoy lathe work so much. A lathe is by far my favorite machine in the shop (second place is gas welding and third place is stick welding). Fun, fun and fun.



I admire skilled welders.


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## Aaron_W (Aug 24, 2020)

Adding to Mikey's post small lathes can be a great tool in addition to a larger lathe depending on the work you want to do. Small lathe is generally cheaper to tool up and can be much cheaper for the initial purchase. Of course it is also limited in work envelope and may have fewer features although CNC will make some features irrelevant. Some have no use for a 10" or smaller lathe, some (me) do most work on a mini and only go to the larger lathe when the larger size is needed.

A mini to 9 or 10" lathe can be both a good starter lathe helping you to learn what your full needs are without spending a ton of money, to find you came up short of ideal for you. They are also small enough to complement a larger lathe (higher speeds, smaller, lighter, cheaper tooling) and take up a lot less space than a 12-16" lathe all of which can make them a nice second lathe.

I think the worst case would be to buy a 12-13" lathe and find it comes up short of your needs. 12-13" is a very common large hobby lathe because it is a solid general purpose lathe, most being well featured, with good mid range speeds but not hugely expensive and tooling is of a manageable size / weight.

PM is a well respected vendor but at the smaller than 12" size, I think that is where the vintage vs new debate is most fierce. You can get full featured 9" -11" vintage lathes with quick change gear boxes, and full power feed for a similar price, as new less featured lathe. Most new lathes under 12" lack a full gear box, and only the higher end ones have power cross feed. Vintage are often limited on metric thread cutting, and of course being used can have a host of issues.


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## matthewsx (Aug 24, 2020)

Tons of good info here, and ALL the other what lathe should I get threads. Read the @DavidR8 threads on his lathe search and you'll get a lot of the same info plus thoughts on buying used rather than new.

Trust me, we'll tell you if you're "wasting" your money, from what I've read PM machines are a good value and their service is top notch. However, since you are in Michigan it might be worthwhile looking at some used machines. You're literally less than half an hour from South Bend so it would be almost criminal if you didn't at least see one of their lathes in action. Not every used machine is a project and if you can get one that comes with tooling you will be miles ahead IMHO.

You have nothing to loose by looking at used machines and if you can try one out you'll get a much better sense of what we're all talking about when we answer your questions.

Here's a pretty one that's probably over priced but might be worth a look.









						South Bend Lathe 10L(aka Heavy 10) - tools - by owner - sale
					

South Bend Lathe Heavy 10 Model number CL 187RB Late model...1981 Long bed...4 1/2’ with hardened...



					southbend.craigslist.org
				




Oh, and what did I learn that I wish I'd know. Like everyone else, bigger stiffer, quick change gearbox, more tooling, etc....

I like the process of fixing stuff up so projects don't turn me off.  I can get much better for way less money if I'm willing to do the work. I'll definitely echo what @macardoso said about CNC vs manual, for a lathe you definitely want manual to start and if you're going to CNC a machine it probably pays to look for something pretty rigid to start with. If you have the space used industrial CNC machines can be had pretty cheap too. Also, you can build your own from parts and pieces like I did with my mill and @r3292c did with his lathe. There are CNC kits for popular mills but not so much for lathes so you have to make a bunch of it yourself anyway and you'll want good manual machines to make that happen.

That's all I've got for now, keep asking questions.


John


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## springer (Aug 25, 2020)

I have the tangential tool holder from when I bought my first lathe and still use it regularly now, 4 lathes later. I consider it a very smart purchase. 

For a lathe, threading is one of my favorite things to do, and opens up a huge envelope of projects you can make. I would get a lathe that is more easily setup to thread. 

Spindle bore was always limiting on my smaller lathes. Still sometimes want something larger. 

Get a good caliper and a decent set of 1-3" micrometers if you ever want to practice hitting accurate dimensions. When i started i used a cheap caliper and did everything "close enough".  Once I started trying to hit exact dimensions, it became much more rewarding. Then it becomes a matter of what tolerance you generally operate to. 

Dont waste your money on a cheap 3 jaw chuck, it will only frustrate you. Use a 4 jaw, its a great skill to develop and will help you in setups from here on out. 

Those are just a few random thoughts, more to come im sure. Hope it helps.


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## Larry$ (Aug 25, 2020)

I've had a larger PM for 4 years now. Pretty good machine and their service, what little I've needed, has been excellent.
If at all possible I would avoid bolt on chucks. The CAM lock system is so much faster. You will find yourself wanting to change chucks way more often than you probably think. A 3 jaw is quick and easy to use. BUT if you want to turn the work around to do the other end you will want to use the 4 jaw so you can come back to dead on center. For small work a collet chuck can be accurate enough to just flip the work around.  My 5C collet chuck is the "Set True" type, excellent. I bought the optional collet chuck with my lathe. I've used it far more than I though I would. I also bought the set of collets by 1/32". They seem good but 1/32" jump is pretty big. 

Aaronthemech's post about things you'll want is a good starting point. For sure a QCTP & lots of tool holders. You don't gain any advantage with the QCTP if you don't have your tools already set up. I'm still up in the air about using only inserted tooling. The cheap Chinese inserts work, but I wouldn't buy them for production use. Their insert holders seem to work OK, at least the ones I've got. Once I had some practice, I found grinding HSS pretty easy and I get excellent finishes with it.  An extended nose live center is nice to have but, the aftermarket one I bought turned out to be too low of quality to be useful. My lathe came with an OK face plate and I bought a set of dogs and made a couple for very odd work. 

There are no belt changes on my lathe and relatively low gear noise. I have to use change gears to do metric threads, kind of a PIA. All the imperial threads I've wanted have been available through the gear box. 
I think you should seriously consider moving up to a 12" swing. If for no other reason than the CAMLOCK  spindle. Note that for most work, it is the clearance over the cross slide that determines useful working diameter. 

A lathe is just the beginning of a long series of "needing more." A knee mill is next!


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## BGHansen (Aug 25, 2020)

Congrats on the purchase.  My first lathe was an Atlas 12" x 36".  I learned an awful lot on that machine.  Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have bought the lathe again.  Mine had a number of things missing that I bought from Atlas, just inexperience on my part.  I'm not bad mouthing Atlas', but mine was missing the head stock cover and the bench-mount pulley arrangement to the motor.  I had never seen the lathe before and had no clue any of that stuff was missing.  No similar worry on your part as you are buying new.

Second lathe was a Rockwell 10" x 36" with 4C collets and a taper attachment.  Was a salvage buy from a local school shutting their shop down.  That introduced me to collets, a taper attachment and variable speed (Reeves-type drive).

Third lathe was a Clausing 5418; 12" x 24".  Picked it up from the school shop my dad taught at.  Big gain with this lathe was shear mass and stiffness, something like a 800 lbs. machine vs. 200-300 for the Atlas and Rockwell.  No problems parting on the Clausing.

Fourth lathe was a Grizzly G0709 14" x 40".  Bought this one for primarily 2 reasons:  Gear head speed changes and the universal quick change gear box.  The Clausing was my main lathe.  Speed changes require a deep knee bend to the floor-height lever to release belt tension for slipping the belt on the pulleys.  I got tired of all the deep knee bends, left the lathe at ~600 RPM's for everything.  I wanted a gear head lathe for easier speed changes. 

Also had some projects requiring Metric threading which is where the universal gear box really shines.  My G0709 does not come with any additional quadrant gears.  There's one gear swap required to get to the really coarse tpi, but swapping between English and Metric is done by the position of one knob.  So much quicker and easier than changing out a 100/127 or 120/127 or some other combo gear in the quadrant.

I sold the Atlas and Rockwell.  So is everything sunshine and roses?  Nope, the Rockwell QCGB had 27 threads per inch for 1/8"-27 pipe threads and a taper attachment.  Had no problems threading the 3/4" per foot or whatever the taper is for the pipe thread.  My Clausing gear box does 27 tpi, but no taper attachment.  The Grizzly has a taper attachment but no 27 tpi setting.  As an aside, one of these days I'll cut the gear needed to change 18 tpi to 27 tpi and get that esoteric pipe thread ability back in my arsenal.

Long story longer, maybe list the things you require of the lathe, plus the wants for the lathe and see what fits best.  Sounds like you've already done that!

Some factors are screw-on chucks vs. D1 or L style mounts.  It's nice to back a tap out of a hole with the lathe in reverse without worrying about spinning the chuck off the spindle.  Do you plan on doing work where you'll do multiple operations requiring re-chucking?  4-jaw will work, but collets are nice and quick.  Collets are great for softer material like brass or aluminum that'll dent with a really tight 3 or 4 jaw (there are work arounds).  Swing and bed length for the size of your projects are a consideration. 

You'll find as you gain more experience that there's some feature you don't have that you wish you did.  But we're all in that same boat and find work-arounds.  Part of the joy of this hobby is using our creativity to figure out how to get the job done with the tools on hand.  Looking forward to seeing some of your work!

Bruce


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## wrmiller (Aug 25, 2020)

Man, am I glad I didn't listen to some of you guys here when I bought my 1340GT.


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## Pcmaker (Aug 25, 2020)

I highly recommend saving up more money to get a PM1236 or cancelling the order if you've already done it.

I bought a PM1127 and I *HIGHLY* regret not getting the PM1236 instead, even after being told by several members here to do so.

The change gears are an absolute pain to deal with. And it'd be nice to have a more powerful motor so I can take deeper cuts than .040. The carriage lock is hard to get to if you have a DRO installed, along with other complaints.


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 25, 2020)

Pcmaker said:


> I highly recommend saving up more money to get a PM1236
> 
> I bought a PM1127 and I regret not getting the PM1236 instead, even after being told by several members here to do so.
> 
> The change gears are an absolute pain to deal with. And it'd be nice to have a more powerful motor so I can take deeper cuts than .040.



The I plan to convert to CNC so I’m not concerned with change gears.

A more powerful motor would be nice though.


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## Skowinski (Aug 25, 2020)

I don't know if this helps, but.... I went round and round for 3 months trying to figure out what milling machine I wanted to get.  It seems there were always pros and cons to every machine I looked at, too big for my shop, too small, gearbox vs belt drive, BLDC motor with proprietary controls vs AC with single phase and the need to go 3 phase and VFD if you wanted variable speed, it just went on and on.  I think anything you get will be a compromise in some way, unless you have unlimited space and $$.  I almost bought a machine that was the size I think I need (727/728) and then decided to go bigger just in case.  I learned that hard lesson with lathes.


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## silverchips (Aug 25, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> The I plan to convert to CNC so I’m not concerned with change gears.
> 
> A more powerful motor would be nice though.



Do you plan to change speeds while in CNC? If so how will that be done?


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 25, 2020)

Skowinski said:


> I don't know if this helps, but.... I went round and round for 3 months trying to figure out what milling machine I wanted to get. It seems there were always pros and cons to every machine I looked at, too big for my shop, too small, gearbox vs belt drive, BLDC motor with proprietary controls vs AC with single phase and the need to go 3 phase and VFD if you wanted variable speed, it just went on and on. I think anything you get will be a compromise in some way, unless you have unlimited space and $$. I almost bought a machine that was the size I think I need (727/728) and then decided to go bigger just in case. I learned that hard lesson with lathes.



What lathe did you learn the hard lesson on?


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## aaronthemeche (Aug 25, 2020)

silverchips said:


> Do you plan to change speeds while in CNC? If so how will that be done?



Not initially, but eventually the plan would be to upgrade to a 3 phase motor and control it with a VFD.


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## shooter123456 (Aug 25, 2020)

Skowinski said:


> I don't know if this helps, but.... I went round and round for 3 months trying to figure out what milling machine I wanted to get.  It seems there were always pros and cons to every machine I looked at, too big for my shop, too small, gearbox vs belt drive, BLDC motor with proprietary controls vs AC with single phase and the need to go 3 phase and VFD if you wanted variable speed, it just went on and on.  I think anything you get will be a compromise in some way, unless you have unlimited space and $$.  I almost bought a machine that was the size I think I need (727/728) and then decided to go bigger just in case.  I learned that hard lesson with lathes.


I think even with unlimited space and unlimited money, you will still be compromising something.  If there was one perfect machine out there that did everything without any compromise, every company would have a whole bunch of that one machine.


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## wrmiller (Aug 25, 2020)

If I absolutely had to have a CNC lathe, I'd save up for a slant bed and call it done. But that's just me. 

(I probably couldn't save up enough for a slant bed though...)


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## Skowinski (Aug 25, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> What lathe did you learn the hard lesson on?



First one was an Atlas 10100 6" baby lathe.  Didn't know anything about lathes and it served it's purpose until about the 4th project I had, when it wasn't big or rigid enough.  Started looking for an old South Bend 9" or 10" to restore and use.  Found a nice 9A cabinet model which I bought and am now using. 

Here I am 4 years after the time I brought that Atlas home thinking I'm going to eventually find a SB 10L or a 13 model, or maybe a more modern PM, or something like that.


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## shooter123456 (Aug 26, 2020)

wrmiller said:


> If I absolutely had to have a CNC lathe, I'd save up for a slant bed and call it done. But that's just me.
> 
> (I probably couldn't save up enough for a slant bed though...)


Just buy a house with a crooked foundation.


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## BGHansen (Aug 26, 2020)

wrmiller said:


> Man, am I glad I didn't listen to some of you guys here when I bought my 1340GT.


Or with a little convincing, might have gotten you into a 1660!

Bruce


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## wrmiller (Aug 26, 2020)

BGHansen said:


> Or with a little convincing, might have gotten you into a 1660!
> 
> Bruce



Naw, too big. But if I had the means, I might trade up to a PM-1440TL. That would be big enough (and them some) for what I do. Now if I could just get Santa to leave one under the tree this year...


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## Aukai (Aug 26, 2020)

It's like buying your first boat. All I need to do is....so a 16' will do, then you learn some about boating, and buy a 20' because it would be better, then you buy a 30' because you know what your doing, and the 30' is so much better than a 16 footer.


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## Aaron_W (Aug 26, 2020)

Aukai said:


> It's like buying your first boat. All I need to do is....so a 16' will do, then you learn some about boating, and buy a 20' because it would be better, then you buy a 30' because you know what your doing, and the 30' is so much better than a 16 footer.



But that 16 footer would be a nice runabout for your 300 foot yacht.


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## 5tmorris (Sep 3, 2020)

aaronthemeche said:


> I can see how that happens.


Now all you need to do is buy a boat, an old house and a classic car and go all in on bottomless money pits.


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## Mini Cooper S (Sep 3, 2020)

I bought my first lathe about 47 years ago.  I got incredibly lucky in that it came very well equipped.  My biggest regret was waiting over 40 years to buy a quick change tool post.  When I bought my second lathe about two years ago, I bought a quick change before I even had the machine wired in and running!

Richard


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## kb58 (Sep 3, 2020)

My first lathe was big enough, and in fact was eventually considered needlessly large after ~15 years of use, so I "downsized" (shorter bed length) to a heavier duty machine, going from a Grizzly 12x36 to a Takasawa 14x30. Point being, think long and hard about what you'll be doing with it, and how much floor space you have. For me, the latter won out.

And yes, I pretty much doubled the cost with tooling. That said, I always hear about how important it is to the deal to get tooling. Well, keep in mind that depending where it came from (like a shop), there's a chance that they kept the good stuff and are giving away the worn-out stuff. In my case, both the 8" and 10" chucks were in such poor condition that they were replaced. There is something worse than buying a machine with no tooling, and that's paying for tooling that needs replacing, so you're spending money twice for the same things.


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## wrmiller (Sep 3, 2020)

I knew what I wanted when I was shopping for my 'last lathe', but there was no way I could afford one, so I had to compromise on cost vs. features and ended up with a 1340GT. It's too long (my tailstock has never seen the end of the lathe bed), and it is a bit light, doesn't have a enclosed gearbox, and a few other things, but it's the best I could get at the time. Life's a compromise.


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## rjs44032 (Sep 3, 2020)

I waited a long time before I purchased my first lathe. I wanted a bore big enough for 5C drawbar. or 1" black-pipe to go through. My wish was for a 14" x 40' gap bed. But I ended up with a used Sheldon EXL.

The EXL is a 10" lathe similar to SB Heavy 10. But has tapered roller bearings in the headstock and bed is a bit heavier. Bed length was close to 36" between centers. Lathe was nearly fully tooled with Steady, a full set of collets, and 5C hand collet closer. The collets turned out to be Ames collets. I didn't recognize the difference at the time of purchase. Doh! Still, I traded them for a set of 1/8ths 5c and a chuck for my SG so that worked out. Got a bunch of other nice tooling with the machine so I think I did ok at $1200 delivered in my area.

If I had it to do over again I would look for a heavier lathe with a non-threaded spindle. The 10" is good for 90% of what I need for my hobbies. But that last 10% turns into a pain (Setting up Rube Goldberg risers and second spindle etc.) A gap bed would have been nice. And more mass is usually a plus.

Also my lathe came with partial taper attachment. I have several projects that would benefit by having a working taper attachment but they are not available except on Ebay for gold reserve pricing. I did find one that is not a match for my lathe and have yet to retrofit it.

So if you can swing it, I would recommend 12"-14" gap bed, with a taper attachment. Length of bed is less important. But you want the biggest bore you can get your hands on. Roller bearing, cam-lock spindle would be nice and hardened bed added bonus. The newer the lathe the easier it is to get parts and accessories.

Hope this help with your choice.

Best Regards,
Bob


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## INTJ (Sep 3, 2020)

wrmiller said:


> I knew what I wanted when I was shopping for my 'last lathe', but there was no way I could afford one, so I had to compromise on cost vs. features and ended up with a 1340GT. It's too long (my tailstock has never seen the end of the lathe bed), and it is a bit light, doesn't have a enclosed gearbox, and a few other things, but it's the best I could get at the time. Life's a compromise.



When I bought my 1340 GT I thought I was buying a bigger lathe, and it is compared to the 9-12" lathes.  It was a good price, high quality, and is about perfect for fitting and chambering rifle barrels.

What it doesn't do it make heavy cuts very well.  I refused to make a bushing for my new reloading press because of the time it would have taken for me to turn down 2.75" to 1.5".  I wish I would have got the 1440 GT or even larger.  However, 95% of what I do is chamber barrels so it wouldn't really make sense.....


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## wrmiller (Sep 3, 2020)

INTJ said:


> When I bought my 1340 GT I thought I was buying a bigger lathe, and it is compared to the 9-12" lathers.  It was a good price, high quality, and is about perfect for fitting and chambering rifle barrels.
> 
> What it doesn't do it make heavy cuts very well.  I refused to make a bushing for my new reloading press because of the time it would have taken for me to turn down 2.75" to 1.5".  I wish I would have got the 1440 GT or even larger.  However, 95% of what I do is chamber barrels so it wouldn't really make sense.....



I'd just take a 0.1" at a time and have a few extra sips of coffee. No biggie, as I'm not in a rush to go anywhere. 

I don't do rifle barrels, yet, although I suppose there may be a LR-308 barrel or two to do down the road. Maybe.

I'd really like a digital threading Hardinge copy with a 3 and 4 jaw chuck, and a full set of collets and I'd be good.


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## INTJ (Sep 3, 2020)

wrmiller said:


> I'd just take a 0.1" at a time and have a few extra sips of coffee. No biggie, as I'm not in a rush to go anywhere.
> 
> I don't do rifle barrels, yet, although I suppose there may be a LR-308 barrel or two to do down the road. Maybe.
> 
> I'd really like a digital threading Hardinge copy with a 3 and 4 jaw chuck, and a full set of collets and I'd be good.



I can go .020" at a time when turning a barrel tenon at the slowest feed rate and 200-300 rpm.  Any faster and I get too much smoke.


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## wrmiller (Sep 3, 2020)

INTJ said:


> I can go .020" at a time when turning a barrel tenon at the slowest feed rate and 200-300 rpm.  Any faster and I get too much smoke.



Yea, I'd have to crank open the Fogbuster more than usual for that kind of cut. But TBH I seldom take more than 10-20 thou at a time anyway. I don't do much work where I have to hog like that. Pistolsmithing is not that hard on machines.


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## addertooth (Sep 3, 2020)

I am the odd man out here.  In my youth I worked as a machinist, and used what most of you would consider monster sized lathes (vertical turrets, horizontal turrets and engine lathes).   I will admit the Bridgeport Mill which was used, was modest in size.  If I wanted to make rims for a monster truck, that was certainly within the limits of the lathes.   But most of my hobbies the past few years have revolved around things which had parts less than 8 inches long, and less than 2 inches in diameter.  I don't need a 70 HP 3-phase 480v motor to make parts.  I don't have the space for a big lathe, and I don't want to borrow a fork truck to re-arrange a shop.


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## Aaron_W (Sep 4, 2020)

wrmiller said:


> I knew what I wanted when I was shopping for my 'last lathe', but there was no way I could afford one, so I had to compromise on cost vs. features and ended up with a 1340GT. It's too long (my tailstock has never seen the end of the lathe bed), and it is a bit light, doesn't have a enclosed gearbox, and a few other things, but it's the best I could get at the time. Life's a compromise.



That is a problem with the 12" and larger lathes. Once you go over 10" swing most lathe are 36" between centers or more and that eats up a lot of floor space. It doesn't seem like many home users actually need that much bed. 




INTJ said:


> When I bought my 1340 GT I thought I was buying a bigger lathe, and it is compared to the 9-12" lathes.  It was a good price, high quality, and is about perfect for fitting and chambering rifle barrels.
> 
> What it doesn't do it make heavy cuts very well.  I refused to make a bushing for my new reloading press because of the time it would have taken for me to turn down 2.75" to 1.5".  I wish I would have got the 1440 GT or even larger.  However, 95% of what I do is chamber barrels so it wouldn't really make sense.....



That is one of the reasons I'm not really supportive of the common "buy the biggest lathe you have room for / can afford" for people who don't really know what they need. For a guy with some experience sure, not bad advice but for somebody who had metal shop 30 years ago and wants to get a lathe, not so much.

Just because you have $8000 to spend doesn't make an $8000 lathe the right one. If somebody spends $1500 on a Grizzy 10x22 and after a year finds it is too small, they now have a much better idea what their needs are. If they sell it, they are probably out $700. Buy a 12x36 and find out it doesn't meet their needs and that could easily be a $2000 learning experience and the bigger the lathe the more work and expense it is moving it out and a new one in.    

It sounds like you made a sound choice, and are just having second thoughts. Except for those with huge machines I'm sure everybody has that moment whee they wish their machine was just a bit bigger.


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## INTJ (Sep 4, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> That is a problem with the 12" and larger lathes. Once you go over 10" swing most lathe are 36" between centers or more and that eats up a lot of floor space. It doesn't seem like many home users actually need that much bed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For me it's not really having second thoughts.  When I get more room I may get an older larger lathe for those few bigger jobs while keeping my 1340.


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## mickri (Sep 4, 2020)

There is nothing that I can think of that I wished I knew before I bought my lathe.  There were a couple of things that I wanted to do.  I bought a lathe that would do what I wanted.  A Craftsman 12x36.  A larger spindle bore would be nice.  But I knew that before my purchase.  Not after.  I am just now getting to the point where I am making things other than learning how to use my lathe.  The majority of what I have made so far is tooling.  The norman style QCTP and its tool holders being the biggest project.  Maybe I am just too frugal but for the life of me I can't see why anyone who is just doing this for a hobby would buy the very expensive Aloris style QCTP.  Even the cheaper Chinese versions. Sure they are nice and pretty to look at.  Yet my norman is just as functional and a fraction of the cost.  For less than $100 I will have the tool post and 15 tool holders.  I still have a couple more tool holders that I plan to make.  I really like the angled tool holders.  Plan to make several more.. 





A better parting tool holder is on the wish list.  Still trying to figure out what changes would improve on what I am now using.




Decisions. Decisions.


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## wrmiller (Sep 4, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> That is a problem with the 12" and larger lathes. Once you go over 10" swing most lathe are 36" between centers or more and that eats up a lot of floor space. It doesn't seem like many home users actually need that much bed.



I keep waiting for Santa to stick one of these under my Christmas tree, but apparently I haven't been a good boy. This would work for 99% of what I do, and for the occasional large job I could just use a friends 16".


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## kb58 (Sep 4, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> That is a problem with the 12" and larger lathes. Once you go over 10" swing most lathe are 36" between centers or more and that eats up a lot of floor space. It doesn't seem like many home users actually need that much bed.


That's why I'm so happy with my Takasawa 14x30. It's very heavy duty but short enough to fit my garage. I had a 12x36 for years and never needed more than maybe 10" of bed length, for _my _needs.


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## addertooth (Sep 4, 2020)

WRMiller said:
I keep waiting for Santa to stick one of these under my Christmas tree, but apparently I haven't been a good boy. This would work for 99% of what I do, and for the occasional large job I could just use a friends 16". 

Response:  I hear that the demand for Coal is really up for the Christmas season.


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## StevSmar (Sep 6, 2020)

Well, I’m not yet at the stage where there were things I wish I’d known before I purchased a lathe. But I am glad I didn’t know I was eventually going to be convinced to spend six times more than I had originally thought.

Six months of escalating decisions made the final purchase seem quite logical.


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## Dabbler (Sep 6, 2020)

Oh, where to begin??

Dx camlock spindle.  Threaded spindles can do good work, but the camlock spindles are more versatile and easier to use.  If your work is primarily in the sub-inch realm and starts with round stock, consider a collet chuck to go with.  You won't regret that decision.

I started with a 12X36, graduated to a 14X40, but I ended up with the lathe of my dreams, a LeBlond 15X60.  Most of 'my work' is using the larger sizes.  the 40" bed is fine for rifle work, but I needed the rigidity of the 3500 lb lathe.

On toolholders:  I still use my lantern ("American Rocker" tool post, I love my 4-way tool post , but I also use my Aloris QCTP as well.  they all work well.  The Aloris is nice as a general purpose TP, but for taking really heavy cuts, my 4-way works better.  Another good choice is the Multifix.  There's a good one made in Germany that's around the same price as the Aloris, but holders are more expensive.

In 40 years I've never used my taper attachment.  Probably never will.  All my tapers have been short enough to use the compound.  The compound is far easier to set up than a taper attachment.

If you are going for CNC, pay very close attention to the ways.  the "old iron" machines like the Le Blond, feature slant ways that last a LOT longer in CNC use.   if the lathe has puny Yee ways, expect it to wear out very fast.  Also pay attention to the oiling system for the ways - the better the lubrication, the longer it will last.  For CNC work wyou need the biggest contact area you can get.  That's why real CNC lathes usually use box ways.

On tooling, carbide is a good choice to begin with, except for parting....  HSS parting tools are easy to sharpen and seem to cut better on small machines, but that's just my experience on my 13" lathe...

Get the best KEYED chuck for the tailstock that you can afford.  My Jacobs is 40 years old and is still gripping very well, with no signs of wear.  Keyless tend to overtighten as the drill tries to turn, and it wears the jaws out faster.  

But the main thing that I wish I knew before buying a lathe, is that it can be easy to spend 2000$ on tooling for it. The wider range of things you are doing the more costly your tooling is.  On my small lathe that cost me 2K$, I've put around 2K into it, not including inserts and other consumables.

Buyt the best lathe chucks you can afford.  I screwed around with cheaper chucks for a long time and now I love my Pratt-Burnard chucks.  Money well spent.  If you have to economize, the 4 jaw chuck is the place.  getting a good running 3 jaw chuck will save you a lot of time and ruined parts. - If you are going PM, see if you can upgrade to Taiwanese made chucks, or better yet, get the whole Taiwanese package. 

You can look at buying a tiny lathe to get some experience and help you figure out what you need to do, and your thoughts might change on what you need to buy to do what you want to do.  Your plan might be to 'trade up' after you gain enough experience, or if you decide the hobby isn't for you, the downside is less...


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## DavidR8 (Sep 6, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> < snip >
> But the main thing that I wish I knew before buying a lathe, is that it can be easy to spend 2000$ on tooling for it. The wider range of things you are doing the more costly your tooling is. On my small lathe that cost me 2K$, I've put around 2K into it, not including inserts and other consumables.


^^^^ this!

Oh wait... I was warned. Several times! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## parshal (Sep 10, 2020)

INTJ said:


> What it doesn't do it make heavy cuts very well.  I refused to make a bushing for my new reloading press because of the time it would have taken for me to turn down 2.75" to 1.5".



I know that feeling!  I'll make cuts up to .050" on mine but I've got a fan blowing all the smoke away so I can see.  I have to make a few more passes to clean up the horrible finish if I do cuts larger than .050".

Taking a 1.250" barrel to 1.0623" takes more time than I'd like to admit on my 1340.


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## Dabbler (Sep 11, 2020)

@parshal One thing I avoid like the plague is heating up the barrel.  the type of steel used in most gun barrels contains enough stress that I'd be wary of releasing it with heat, even the mild heat of vaporizing oil...  For a while we'd TIG weld on flash hiders to make up 18.5" barrels, until we found out that the point of impact changed noticeably only heating up the last bit of the barrel like that.

The effect is less with less heat applied, but over the entire length of the barrel, well, I wouldn't risk it...  I understand some barrel makers do the final cutting on the lands and grooves after profiling because of the movement of the metal from profiling the barrel.


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## starr256 (Sep 11, 2020)

If you are a novice and doing this on your own, I would suggest finding an experienced setup machinist to assist you in getting it aligned. Watch and ask questions.  The lathe can be be quite precise if setup correctly.  Its a small additional expense, but the return is that you can work on your general skills knowing that your results are do to your capabilities without worrying about alignment issues. Just my $0.26 worth of advice.


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## parshal (Sep 11, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> @parshal The effect is less with less heat applied, but over the entire length of the barrel, well, I wouldn't risk it...



I don't profile barrels.  I'm talking about reducing the diameter for the tenon.  Either way, though, point taken.

I apologize to the OP for derailing the thread.


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