# Another Logan 200 rescue



## shnotes (Mar 8, 2014)

Hey All,

Shout out to Redlineman and TomKro who have been an inspiration to me. I am restoring a recently acquired Logan model 200 to working order. I have run into a few snags and I am looking for advice. I would also like to be up front in saying that I am new to both machining and forums, so please be gentle.

*The story so far:*

Logan Actuator site says that my 21139 serial number is a 1943 vintage. The previous owner was deceased and the man who sold it to me knew nothing of the machine's history. It appeared to be in good shape but in desperate need of cleaning and lubrication. From what I have read it may be rare, however, I was fortunate to find that all the gears and racks on the machine were intact with no missing teeth (including a full set of change gears).

*Tasks that have been accomplished*:

-*Tailstock teardown and clean* - 2 issues here, I may have lost a shim washer that has introduced some play (perhaps called backlash?) into the TS. Also, I think that my quill is mounted upside down. This is, oddly enough, the same issue that tubalcain had with his logan. Perhaps this was a popular mod for this lathe. Fortunately tubalcain has a well documented fix for this on his youtube channel. The reason I want to fix this is because I cant see the measurements on the quill at the moment. Another thought may be to mount a DRO to the quill and not bother with flipping it around.

-*Carriage/apron/saddle teardown and clean *- Only issue is that one of the gears on the power cross feed mechanism will cause problems if it's bolt is tightened all the way, I am assuming I just need to shim this properly.

-*Motor teardown and clean* - Motor was full of junk and there was some rust on the magnets. I used compressed air and emery cloth to clean this up and it runs a lot smoother than when I first got it. It was having trouble starting and now seems fine. 

*Ongoing/future tasks:*

-*Headstock teardown and nose bearing clean* - A few issues here.
1) The spindle barely moved when I first got the machine. I was worried that the main bearing may be shot, but I took the chance and said my prayers. After fighting a few days with the nut on the spindle shaft next to the bearing, I was able to get the bearing out to clean and inspect. Loctite sells a product that freezes parts in order to loosen them if they are stuck. This product seemed to help get the nut off. The process also involved something I am not proud of using two pipe wrenches. I cleaned the bearing out with varsol, soapy water, and compressed air. I am worried that I may have overfilled the bearing with grease, I used a bearing packer tool that I bought from the local auto parts store (see photo). I would appreciate advice on the dangers of overfilling the bearing. Is it just going to shoot grease out and be fine?

2) There was a gasket that was in between the bearing cover and the main headstock casting that crumbled as I opened the cover. A look at the manual would suggest that this is not original, however, I am not really sure if I am reading the manual correctly or even if I can trust what I am seeing. For all I know, I may have bought the wrong logan 200 manual. I have included a screen capture from the manual. If I tighten the bearing cover with no gasket it prevents the spindle from turning, so I would assume that I am going to need to put something there for clearance. 

3) After cleaning and re-packing the main bearing I am attempting to put the spindle back into the headstock and I am having trouble getting the spacers on the shaft (part 131 and 130-1 see screen capture from manual) to fit correctly in relation to the tail bearing. I would appreciate any advice on this.

-*Replace old worn belt* - I am planning to replace with an automotive serpentine belt. I would appreciate if anyone has advice or a link to a good tutorial on this.

-*Back gear timing *- I pulled out the lever for the back gear eccentric shaft without realizing that I should have marked it for reference. Now I am trying to find some resources to figure out how to time this correctly.

Thanks for the read. Photos attached.


----------



## CluelessNewB (Mar 8, 2014)

You are by no means the first person to ask about adjusting the back gear rack!

From the Logan web site:

http://lathe.com/ll-group-archive/logan_lathe_back_gears.html


----------



## Thomas Paine (Mar 8, 2014)

looks great man.


----------



## mjhenks (Mar 8, 2014)

Nice project

Your lathe looks to be in good cosmetic shape.

Bearings usually have 30% by volume grease.  If you overfill it you will have increased resistance and possibly extra heat until it gets pushed out.  May b messy

Did you remove the shields or were there none on the bearing


----------



## shnotes (Mar 8, 2014)

mjhenks said:


> Did you remove the shields or were there none on the bearing



One side had a removable shield the other would have had to be destroyed for me to remove that cover


----------



## stevecmo (Mar 9, 2014)

Looks like you found a nice lathe!  :thumbsup:

You definitely need to remove some of that grease!  Filling it 100% will cause it to overheat and ruin it.  Mjhenks was correct - 30% fill is the right amount.

As far as getting those pieces on the spindle, there is probably a burr or two.  Be careful but use a stone or file or emory cloth.........oh, and be careful not to damage anything.  

Not sure what you mean regarding a tutorial on the serpentine belt.  Just make sure you get it on before you put the spindle in!!!  I bought mine from McMaster Carr.  I bought the 10 rib and am extremely happy with it.  If I remember correctly the serpentine belt lengths are measured on the OD.  The McM catalog will tell you.  Here's a link:  http://www.mcmaster.com/#serpentine-belts/=r0oicj

Hope that helps.

Steve


----------



## TomKro (Mar 9, 2014)

Looks like you found one in pretty nice shape.  Very fortunate that you have no busted gears.      

Happy that our efforts are inspiring you.  The SN on my bed is only a few hundred off from yours.  I’m guessing they were originally assembled by the same hands.    

Congrats on your ability to clean up the electric motor.  I’ve done OK with a few 12V DC motors, but all the 120V motors I’ve taken apart were too buggered up to even bother to try to put back together. 

Maybe someone else can comment on the issue, but a spacer/gasket between the bearing cap and the headstock appears strange.  It’s my impression that the bearing cap is used to trap the outside ring on the nose bearing against the front of the headstock.  I didn’t notice that ring in your pictures.  Some caps have recesses for a large Belleville spring (for more preload, I assume), but I have not heard of a gasket in there.  

Keep up the good work!


----------



## Redlineman (Mar 9, 2014)

Hey...

Look who's not lurking anymore?!?!

Nice original machine. Rare to see one with a dauber! Quill is upside down, as you noted from old Mr. Pete. I think the reason is just the same as his. The lower index pin merely slipped down. The hole in the top is simply there to drill through to the bottom for the index pin hole. Mine has a plug in the top. You may have too much grease, but in my experience a bearing will just push it out.

I'm not aware of bearings overheating and hurting themselves. There's no real load or high rpm here. What most people do not know is that bearings only used what is in contact with the rollers, and the rest of whatever grease might be there is superfluous. More grease does little but make a mess in most cases, unless the environment become pressurized (sealed). Then seals or bearing caps can blow out.

While your lathe is a fairly early one, it is what I term a Series II 200 with the tombstone numbered emblem and no switch hole in the front of the headstock. These are the first units not using the older original Montgomery Ward parts to get machines to market. As such, the part manual with the exploded diagrams that you will get is the right one for yours. You may get in some trouble relying on the early section view schematics for exact parts required, as there have been some changes in the machines in your vintage. You probably also have the bushed cone pulley gear as well. All of this is the "Series II" stuff.

The LA-247 you see in the exploded diagrams does not really exist as far as I have been able to determine. It is not shown in the early section schematic. Neither my early "Series I" nor the later "Series II" complete parts headstocks I bought had anything in there. No one on the Logan list could tell me anything about it, and Logan does not offer one currently. I am forced to assume it is an erroneous addition to the manual. The snap ring goes on the bearing, which goes on the shaft, and then into the headstock. LA-194 bearing cap goes on, and the LA-195 grease cover goes in. That's it as far as I know.

Belt is a 40". I used a 7 rib. Some go wider. Any Poly V belt has far more drive potential than the original leather belt. I chose a safety margin there. Read my thread for further discussion on the belt. 

Any of the gears on the apron are on shoulder bolts, as I recall. Shim them if they do not ride free.

Back gear adjustment info is well given in that tutorial. Again, read my thread. You might want to do the shaft slot mod to make it easier to adjust. It is DEFINITELY worth the time to do. You will develop a feel for how tight to make it when you fool with it. It is REEEEEEALY hard to do without that slot mod.

Hands have gone numb. Will add more later!


----------



## shnotes (Mar 10, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. 

stevecmo: The tutorial I was referring to was because I was planning to cut and glue a belt. This seems advantageous because you don't have to remove the spindle and also you don't need it to be perfect size. I will also look into continuous.

Tomkro: I didn't see a Belleville spring when the spindle came out. Perhaps I can add some clearance with some shim stock. I am not sure what to do otherwise.

Redlineman: I will have to dig into more of the series II anomalies. I do indeed have a gear bushed onto the pulley. I will also look into the shaft slot mod.


----------



## stevecmo (Mar 10, 2014)

shnotes said:


> stevecmo: The tutorial I was referring to was because I was planning to cut and glue a belt. This seems advantageous because you don't have to remove the spindle and also you don't need it to be perfect size. I will also look into continuous.



Huh?  According to your pic's you* HAVE *removed the spindle.  :thinking:   Seems counter productive to cut a new belt and then splice it back together when you don't have to.  As far as the "perfect size" belt, it doesn't have to be perfect.  There is quite a bit of adjustment in the counter shaft mechanism which tightens the belt when you close the top cover.

Good luck!

Steve


----------



## TomKro (Mar 10, 2014)

I believe that Belleville spring is placed within a cutout in the cast bearing cap.  If your cap has no relief for one, you won't need the spring.  The one I have came off a different model, and just happened to fit the 200.  I assumed it couldn't hurt.  I've been wrong before, so I didn't toss the original cap.  

  I really don't know what a shim or gasket would be doing between the cap and the headstock.  Maybe you can assemble the cap with some sort of marking fluid and try to see what might be hitting the bearing and causing it to tighten up.  If you really need a spacer, maybe cutting one from some peel away shim stock might give you the adjustment you need.   Just be careful, as those preloaded nose bearings are pricey.  

  Let us know how it goes fitting that spindle back in.


----------



## shnotes (Mar 11, 2014)

Update: I have been able to solve the issue with the bearing cap gasket. The previous owner had put the LA-195 part on the inside of the bearing cap. Upon looking at the manual it would seem that is part is supposed to be on the outside of the cap. When I took the part out and put it on the outside everything seemed to fit perfect (now with no gasket). It may have introduced a new issue or perhaps it is unrelated. The large gear on the back gear eccentric shaft is now rubbing slightly against the pulley. There is a little play that the pulley has on the spindle so it doesn't touch the gear at all times. I never took out the back gear shaft when I disassembled my headstock. Does anyone know of a way to adjust the position of that gear? It doesn't really jump out at me upon looking at the assembly drawing.


----------



## Redlineman (Mar 11, 2014)

Har!

Yes, that bearing shield goes on the OUTSIDE. As in, LAST! Your previous owner put it under bearing cap LA-194-1 and obviously set all of the gears on the spindle for that erroneous configuration. You will now have to rejigger both the backgear shaft and all the bits on the spindle for proper clearances now that you have the shield in the right place. It does take some fiddling, but all the spindle parts are adjustable and it will get there eventually.

The back gear shaft adjusts based on where you lock down the front/rear shaft bushings LA-126/127 with the set screws 0322. I'll bet if you look you can see two sets of set screw marks on those bushings; One set where they were originally, and one set where doofus put them! Get it all in there and start fiddling. That's what it takes. You'll figure it out. 

:think1:


----------

