# My PM 1440GT



## Rifleman1384 (Mar 25, 2021)

Here is my journey, first I would like to thank everyone for this site and the wealth of information and sharing that happens here.
Special Thanks to:
Mark Jacobs
David Best

After many months of reading, researching and thought I reached out to Matt the end of Oct 2020 to have a few questions answered before I placed my order. Everything went well I thought, the only thing that was not doable was my request to have my machine built with a spider already in the spindle. Matt sent me an email with everything we spoke about and a few days later I spoke with John and mailed my 20% deposit check. Per Matt and John the shipment with my machine was expected to PM the week of Christmas.

I ordered some tooling while waiting and contacted John the week before Christmas and was told the machine is expected the week after Christmas. PM would email when it arrives but would not put it in line to have accessories installed before final payment received. Final payment mailed the next day. The arrival date again changed to Jan 10th and the ship actually made port in NY on Jan 13th. Container went thru customs and sat at the rail head for just over 2 weeks before moving to PA. I did receive an email late one evening that the machine had made it to PM (Nicole was working way to late), I also received an email with the Install slip showing the bin location of all accessories ordered with the exception of one item that I was aware might be late. I called the next day to confirm all was well and that everything I ordered was in fact there and allocated to me with the one exception and was told yes, we have your final payment, it will be placed in line to be built out and you will be notified before shipping. I was told that may take 2-3 weeks. 

In the mean time I had received some measurements for the base as I needed to have risers built sine I'm a little on the tall side.

I get the call from Jeff at PM that my order was ready to ship with the exception of two items that would not be shipped with the machine. I inquired about this since my install slip showed the additional item in stock allocated to me and I provided the bin location and they were supposed to install this item ( taper attachment). I had ordered the taper attachment and paid the additional cost to have them install the magnetic DRO so to ensure no clearance issue with taper attachment and the DRO scale. Mind you my order has been paid complete since I was told before Christmas that no accessories would be installed and made ready for shipment until all funds received by PM. Had I known I would NOT have paid to have the DRO installed because my order specifically stated for the taper attachment to be installed by PM to make sure no clearance issues with the DRO scale. I have installed a 3 axis DRO from DRO PRO's on my Bridgeport and it went well. 

The machine did ship the next day and went to Dayton OH and sat for three days waiting on dispatch then to Little Rock. I will say Jeff with PM did me a favor by offering and quoting me a price for inside delivery. I was expecting to have to pick it up at the terminal due to living some what rural. The driver was able to get down my driveway and with my help we got it into the garage just about 10ft from the door into the shop. 






















While on the pallet I removed the rear cover and all of the factory electronics, I installed Mark's control board and completed the re-wiring while it was easy to get to everything instead of waiting till it was in place. I used a lift strap and the hay fork on the tractor to lift it from the pallet. I have seen lets of folks using pipe to move their machine, while hanging from the lifting strap I tapped the machine base threads to 1/2-13 and screwed some casters and we pushed into my shop. Very easy job for 2 people even going over the shop door threshold. 






After we got it inside the shop I used my floor jack to take the pressure off the casters and install the risers. I finished up the wiring and set about getting it "level". The way are as parallel as I can it them using a Starrett 199.






A little more cleanup, mounting a few accessories. The bracket for the lamp was included, the holes for the bracket were already in the back cover but no bolts to be found anywhere. I did go ahead and order some Gates Tri-Power belts and put them on before first startup.
Spindle run out is as advertised. in checking both ground surfaces of the spindle they are easily under .0001 with my DTI.
A text or two with Mark and he was happy with my installation of his system and I was ready to test wreck it. No smoke, no sparks everything worked. 
Break-in completed as recommended by PM, 10 minutes runtime in each gear.
So now I'm smiling and real happy about things.
I read several time Rollie's Dads method of alignment. I grabbed the inch diameter ground bar I got from Mcmaster Carr and put in the 3 jaw chuck that came with the machine. I set up my mag base and DTI and went thru the process, Hummmmmmmm something is not right here my measurements show the headstock is out of alignment by .0135. I took the chuck off and re-cleaned EVERYTHING and got the same measurement. I took the PM 3 jaw off and put the Bison 4 jaw on and re-indicated, same result. D@#it, what am I missing. Ok I also have a 1.250 ground baar from Mcmaster Carr, maybe something is wrong with the first one. Again same result over and over the headstock is out by .0135. 

Just to be clear during all of this I was also re-checking the ways to ensure they were still parallel to each other and something hasn't moved.

I know this is long my apologizes, I had a 1.750 6061 piece of round stock and put it in the 4 jaw. I had it under .0005 runout at the headstock. Ok now we are getting somewhere run it out 9.5 inches and it's out by .012. At this point I'm confused and a little ****** at myself right. 

I know, get the PM 4 way tool post off there and get my new Dorian QCTP I had hid and do some measurements.  To the mill, take a little of here and a little off there and the T-Nut for the Dorian fits the machine perfectly. Grab a tool with a HSS insert, set it up on center and take a skim cut or three. DTI measurements and bam it's out .0125, cutting a taper. Loosen 6 bolts and then adjust the headstock (too far the first time of course). Several passes and adjustments later we have success. The headstock is now cutting a taper of .0003 over 9.5 inches. Ok that was a fluke? Take another pass to confirm and yep it's now down to .0003. So ladies and gents please ring in here, .0003 is ok. Call it good and move on cause I'm convinced if I keep chasing it  I'll wind up frustrated.






Overall I am pleased and excited to get some time with the machine, I will be posting questions and things I run into looking for hep and suggestions.

A few things for anyone getting ready to go down this road or already on it. If you are thinking about doing the conversion the Mark has do it on the front end you will not regret it. I thought about waiting till "later" and it's got to be easier to just do it starting out when it's easier to get to everything and be done with it. The stock machine is basically a 12 speed straight cut gear transmission, converted  I can go from any rpm from below 50 to above 2000 if needed and every RPM in between.

I really would like to have seen a QC sheet provided with the machine letting me know what was checked and what the results were and who signed off on this. I am not experienced enough to know for sure but from what I have read here and other places. I was prepared for the need to do the headstock alignment but I just can't seem understand or agree that shipping a machine out of alignment that much should happen. So maybe the sip hit an iceberg or the train ran over a cow or something and knocked it out a bit. As tight as the 6 bolts were I doubt that and a QC checklist prior to shipment would have shown this and prevented a lot of head scratching and cussing on my part.

Anyway a huge thanks to this forum, Mark Jacobs, David Best, JBOLT and everyone that has posted the things I read in preparation and during this journey.

FYI, I'm still waiting on the other 2 items, It's a new world and time I understand. The delays we all are going thru now are not anyone's fault really, it's just the way things are now. 

First intended Projects:
Tool Height Gage
Spyder
Modify Gear Cover for Spyder


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## ArmyDoc (Mar 25, 2021)

0.0003 over 9.5 inches seems very good to me.
I would let it be and re-check it in a month or two.


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## davidpbest (Mar 25, 2021)

Great looking install Steve.  Those riser blocks are terrific.  Nice job.  3 tenths over 9" is really good IMO.  I suggest you leave it for now, get some experience with the machine, and if you find the projects you're doing need even better tolerance, you can always tweak it more.  I have an MT5 precision alignment bar if you want to borrow it, but my guess is your spindle is MT6, 6 1/2 maybe?  If/when you get the taper attachment installed, I'd love to see some photos of that aspect.  Anyway, congratulations.


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## Janderso (Mar 25, 2021)

Nice lathe!
Nice SHOP!!!!
Congratulations.
If you hooked up with David Best, you could not do better!! 
The man is a genius and a perfectionist!


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## Just for fun (Mar 25, 2021)

Congratulations man!   Beautiful setup!


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## Stonebriar (Mar 25, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> Great looking install Steve.  Those riser blocks are terrific.  Nice job.  3 tenths over 9" is really good IMO.  I suggest you leave it for now, get some experience with the machine, and if you find the projects you're doing need even better tolerance, you can always tweak it more.  I have an MT5 precision alignment bar if you want to borrow it, but my guess is your spindle is MT6, 6 1/2 maybe?  If/when you get the taper attachment installed, I'd love to see some photos of that aspect.  Anyway, congratulations.


The 1440gt is actually a mt 5 1/2 and comes with a mt3 insert for it.


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## .LMS. (Mar 25, 2021)

Great pictures, great choice.    I had to do a headstock alignment on my 1236T too.


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## Janderso (Mar 25, 2021)

Stonebriar said:


> The 1440gt is actually a mt 5 1/2 and comes with a mt3 insert for it.


Hmm, I didn't know they made an MT 5.5.
I can't recall seeing tooling in this size.


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## mksj (Mar 25, 2021)

Great looking machine and shop, I like the lathe risers. Very nicely done.

The taper attachments can be a bit tricky to install with regard to alignment, I have installed some heavier ones that required 2 people and took a few hours to install. Hopefully they installed the DRO Z axis reader head toward the tailstock end of the carriage as opposed to the center so it will not interfere with the taper attachment.
Mark


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## jbolt (Mar 25, 2021)

WooHoo! Glad to see it finally arrived.

Looks like the risers fit. Now you need to lower the foot brake!


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## jbolt (Mar 25, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Hmm, I didn't know they made an MT 5.5.
> I can't recall seeing tooling in this size.


There is no standard MT5.5. This was done by PM as a compromise to having a D1-5 spindle nose and a 2.05" spindle bore. MT5 is too small and MT6 too large so they did a custom spec and called it MT5.5.


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## mikey (Mar 25, 2021)

Nice report on setting up your lathe. Just wanted to add that I don't know of any seller that adjusts and certifies the headstock alignment before shipping. Might be one out there but I think they assume you will do the basic adjustments yourself - align the headstock, level the lathe and align the tailstock.

The next time you check your headstock alignment, I suggest you use a shorter rod; about 4-6" stick out of 1 to 1.5" stock is fine. If stick out is too long then you're dealing with material deflection, especially when using inserts. It might not be a bad idea to grind or have ground for you a good HSS tool bit just for doing test cuts (headstock alignment, 2-collar tests); it will give you the most accurate test cuts with minimal deflection. When a hobby guy is shooting in the tenths on these kinds of tests a good cutting tool makes a difference. 

I assume you leveled the lathe with a 2-collar test before aligning the headstock. You might want to do a 2-collar test again to confirm the lathe is level because the order in which alignment procedures are done makes a difference, at least in my experience. I have found that it works best for me if I align the headstock first, then level the lathe, then align the tailstock last. All this is done with test cuts on the lathe, not with manufactured bars done by others. 

Again, you did a great job setting up your new lathe. Having guys like Mark Jacobs and David Best in your corner is a major advantage! 

Welcome to HM!


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## davidpbest (Mar 26, 2021)

Mikey  makes an excellent point about the stick-out.  Tool pressure alone will often account for 3/10th deflection with 9" of stick-out on the part.  In addition to shortening the stick-out, here are some other ideas that might help getting to a more precise alignment check.

If you are using insert tooling for the cutting operation:  Pick an indexable tool that has a neutral or positive rake angle and an insert with a sharp cutting edge.  This will lower radial tool pressures.  Make sure the depth of cut is at least 1/2 the nose radius of the particular insert you're using.  If the DOC isn't deep enough, the majority of the pressure between the tool and the part is radial - pushing the tool toward the tool post and the part in the opposite direction.  By setting the cutting depth to at least 1/2 the nose radius, the pressures shift axially - toward the chuck, and deflection is reduced. 
Do as much as you can to increase rigidity:  Pull the compound back so the tool post is directly over the compound swivel base, and not hung out in a cantilevered position.  Turn the compound so it is perpendicular to the work piece, and make sure the compound locking screws are tight. Choke up on the tool.


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## Rifleman1384 (Mar 27, 2021)

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and encouragement, that's what's great about being here everyone is helpful.


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## 7milesup (Mar 27, 2021)

Rifleman:
I have a similar lathe, an Eisen 1440E.  Like you, mine needs to have some risers built.  I was planning on welding up some but I noticed yours have some horizontal bolts right above where the vertical adjustment bolts are.  What are they for?


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## Rifleman1384 (Mar 27, 2021)

Those are to ensure rigidity and to link them together. I have to say I got some of the measurements and the idea from JBOLT's PM 1440GT. The top plate is 2" wide 1/2 thick. It would be easier but more costly to use C channel but these are using 2X2X 1/4 angle iron 5" long resulting in 6" of height. I'll say they came out the perfect height and are very sturdy, rigid.


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## 7milesup (Mar 27, 2021)

After looking closer, I now now see that that is just a rod between the two risers.  Gotcha.
I was planning on making a "box" for each end of my lathe that runs the full width of the machine.  I am slightly concerned though about introducing any twist but I am thinking that the bolts on the cast iron pads will take any twist out.  
This is probably a next winter project unless I find a day that I don't know what else to do (hahaha).


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## jbolt (Mar 29, 2021)

7milesup said:


> After looking closer, I now now see that that is just a rod between the two risers.  Gotcha.
> I was planning on making a "box" for each end of my lathe that runs the full width of the machine.  I am slightly concerned though about introducing any twist but I am thinking that the bolts on the cast iron pads will take any twist out.
> This is probably a next winter project unless I find a day that I don't know what else to do (hahaha).


These are the drawings for the risers I sent Rifleman1384. 

It was based on stock I had on hand.

I wasn't sure how flat the machine bases were so I used all-thread to clamp a piece of angle between the front and back of the riser to allow for some 'float'  instead of welding. I could have pre-fitted and tacked them but I was in a hurry (i.e. lazy) and didn't to deal with on-tack-off-weld-paint-on.


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## 7milesup (Mar 29, 2021)

Awesome, thank you Jay.


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## Titanium Knurler (Mar 29, 2021)

Rifleman: “Everything went well I thought, the only thing that was not doable was my request to have my machine built with a spider already in the spindle”

Rifleman, congratulations on you new lathe! She’s a beauty; I am sure you will have many enjoyable hours setting-up and using your new lathe.

I have a 1236-T and installed a hand wheel and later a spider.  If you search something like, “Setting up the PM 1236-T” here on the forum and look at the posts starting at 117 and then 192 you will see one way of doing a hand wheel and spider. I would insert a link directly to it if I knew how.

I use the hand wheel all the time; it is much easier than trying to grab the chuck to rotate the spindle and have gotten into the habit of rotating the spindle using the hand wheel just before turning the lathe on to make sure everything is clear.  I would really miss not having it.

Again, congratulations!


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## Rifleman1384 (Mar 31, 2021)

I like that wheel for the spyder, I'm trying to work on a Tool Height Gage now but this ting called a job is preventing me from working on it much.


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## Rifleman1384 (May 6, 2021)

Just a little update here, the PM 5C Collet Chuck came in, with all of the recent storms going on work has been 6X10's and 6X12's so no time to play. The chuck came packaged very well, I installed the studs for the cam lock backing plate and there is sat till today. I turned the studs in to the line and put the retaining screws in. I had one that when turning the cam lock went a little to far, I pilled the chuck and that one went in another revolution. Lock up is smooth and good. I used my DTI to set the run-out (yes the PM 5C Collet Chuck is adjustable), took me a few minutes overall and the run-out with the DTI on the middle of the taper is under .0001. I did video it but it's too big and won't go to me email. I installed the 1/2 in collet (from my PM Collet set) and used a .500 end mill, with the DTI the run-out is .0002. Not to bad I think. 

If anyone wants better or few more photos just holler and I'll try and get them posted.

I do have a question for the group, the spindle does not have a witness mark and I need one so I can install chucks in  the same place each time, any ideas? Scribe mark. punch mark, letter stamp, sharpie, I'm not sure the sharpie would last very long. 

Steve


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## .LMS. (May 6, 2021)

I've been punching mine.


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## jbolt (May 6, 2021)

Two punch marks side by side.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


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## BladesIIB (May 6, 2021)

I use a # 1 punch to make a line. Use the same on any Chuck that does not have a mark.  Set up looks great.


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## .LMS. (May 6, 2021)

BladesIIB said:


> I use a # 1 punch to make a line. Use the same on any Chuck that does not have a mark.  Set up looks great.



I think that's a better idea than just punching a dot like I did.   Sometimes (often?) I am hunting for that punch mark, and a line would be much easier to pick up.  Sometimes I'll rotate the chuck around twice before I pick up the mark.  Kinda reminds me of the rule that you need to try plugging USB cables in 3 times before they fit!


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## Larry$ (May 6, 2021)

Nice series. I got a 5C collet chuck when I ordered My PM1440HD 5 years ago. It is a beautiful "Run true" type. Quite a few tries using a PM collet,  a .5 gage pin  and a Mitutoyo DT indicator to get it dialed in. I'm happy with the results. There is no manufacturer's mark on the chuck.  I use the collet chuck more often than I thought I might. My collet set is by 32nds. At the small end that makes for too large of steps. I bought a 3/4" square collet and a collet stop and both work fine. I will always use the collet chuck in preference to the 4 jaw. Faster and easier. I like how easy it is to reverse work and to hold threaded parts. I have collet blocks but they need some work. I have modified my spin indexer to reverse ends and that makes getting in close easier. I need to make a tail stock for it. I have an 8" HV rotary table but setup time is much longer than the spin indexer but it will do other things. Boy is the rabbit hole deep.


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## Jake P (May 6, 2021)

Rifleman1384 said:


> Just a little update here, the PM 5C Collet Chuck came in, .............


May I ask what PM is getting for the 5C setup?


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## davidpbest (May 6, 2021)

Punch marks, and numeral stamps?  Inset 0.187" 14 karat gold pins at least!


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## zjtr10 (May 6, 2021)

Good one, Davidp.


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## bill70j (May 6, 2021)

Jake P said:


> May I ask what PM is getting for the 5C setup?


You might consider making your own "Set-True" backing plate for one of the cheap import plain-back 5C collet chucks.

Mr. Best (davidpbest) made one for an ER collet chuck, and I simply copied his approach for the 5C collet chuck on my 1440GT.  It turned out very nicely and was far cheaper than buying the real thing.


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## zjtr10 (May 6, 2021)

I’m curious also so I went to the PM website but it’s not listed there. At least I couldn’t find it    

eBay has similar ones for $150-200 USD


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## ahazi (May 7, 2021)

Jake P said:


> May I ask what PM is getting for the 5C setup?


$300- ordered in December 2020. Complete with SET-TRU D1-4 plate.

The ones on eBay are not set tru, at least I did not see any.

Ariel


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## Rifleman1384 (May 7, 2021)

I ordered mine with the machine, order date was 10/30 and the invoice showed 299.99.

Thanks everyone for the hints on marking the spindle and chucks.

Dave I really like the 14K gold pins, I wonder if I can swipe something from the wife and copy that, lol. 

Steve


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## Larry$ (May 7, 2021)

zjtr10 said:


> eBay has similar ones for $150-200 USD


The whole point of using a collet chuck is accuracy. The Set-Tru makes perfect sense. If you are going to do production work get a drawbar setup.


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## oregontripper (May 16, 2021)

Thanks for the crated pictures!

Added: Roughly, height of crate while on pallet?  I am relying on others to get it moved inside and any information will help.


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## Rifleman1384 (May 20, 2021)

Sorry I did not measure the crate when it arrived, the packing slip shows dimensions of 78x48x62. I hope that helps.


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## oregontripper (May 21, 2021)

Thank you. That's good info.  Late June ETA.


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