# Atlas upper compound slide modification



## iron man

I have been wanting to do this for a long time and the right part come up for grabs and I thought now would be a good time. As you can see in the photo I have two compounds the lower one is a stock 10 inch Atlas that broke in half as they frequently do. The other is a Atlas 12 inch commercial lathe compound that was for sale on this forum ( thanks Rick ) at a very reasonable price. The second problem is Atlas made a very short lower slide that offers very little support if for some reason you go past the slide as you most likely will and the tool catches the compound has had so much material removed and there is no support the compound snaps at the T slot. Plus the compound is so narrow and the dovetails are a little shallow the compound often rocks during cutting. Some guys have removed the compound made a spacer and use there QCTH without it so there is no give. ... Let's see if we cant fix that.

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Since the commercial compound is off of a 12 inch lathe it is thicker I set it up in my band saw and cut off the dove tails. This is good cast iron and cuts like butter.

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If your a purest of Atlas lathes please turn away this is after the cut I will mill the rest of the dovetail off. The casting will still be thicker in key areas because I will keep the tollerance tighter.

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For the second part I got a piece stressproof I wanted cast iron but could not find any locally and I wanted to get started so stressproof machines easyier than cold rolled and its stronger so I started in.

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Here I faced and bored the part I should mention the shaft is 5 1/4 in dia. it makes it an inch longer.

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Here I took it over to my modified wood to metal bandsaw and cut out the shape.

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I took the part over to my modified GO 727 mini mill and finished the shape I just cant leave any machine in its stock form it seems.


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## Dranreb

Interesting...I'll be watching this, as I do have a slotted cross slide that's much more rigid but a stiffer compound would be more useful to me..

Bernard


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## iron man

Well here we go milling out the main part getting ready for the dove tail.

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Now I started with a 45 degree cutter and cut out some of the material it seems that the 45 cuts easyier I then go back to a 60 degree and just clean up it is a LOT easyier on these mini mills. The dovetails are also cut to a ful depth the same as they are on the lower slide for greater contact area.

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Here is the 60 degree finishing up the rest of the cut.

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Here is the finished part I need to sink the screw and the nut to gain clearance for the compound. The stock Atlas has a groove cut down the middle that does absolutly nothing but gathers chips and weakends the compound. They also make the dove tail off center so when you crank in it will tend to cock the compound mine will be centered and since it is 3 times stronger the groove will be useful and will not affect the strength for what I am doing.

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Here it is nearly complete notice the differance in length compared to the stock one. When these started to break and I have seen a lot of them you would have thought Atlas would have fixed the problem but since they could sell more parts they just kept going with a bad design.

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As you can see the original has the nut off center to the dove tail and to the clearance slot this was in one wreck from the previous owner resulting in a chiped dove tail and broken compound when I got the lathe in the 80's I bought a new compound I think it was $80 bucks back then!!

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Here is where the modification on the GO 727 comes in handy I had enough clearance to drill the holes for the lock downs worked very nice.

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Now after dialing in on the remaining dovetail surface I started in taking out material for the dovetail I remove only what is need for clearance 10 thousands is as good as a mile for air gap.

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Here I am cutting the dove tail all went very well.

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All done I cut down the center of the casting to straighten it up a bit for clearance again just enough for clearance and that is it!

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Drilled the holes for the dove tail adjustments tapped 10-32.

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Here it is side by side with a stock unit notice how much wider it is and what I really like is I now have a nice flat spot that I can set my dial indicator on and I can now put on my home grown QCTH without a shim or without milling a all ready weak compound. The new one is 100 thousands thicker at the T slot thanks to careful measuring I also have a deeper dove tail.

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Clearance is tight but as I said an few thousands in this case are as good as a mile the part is still thicker everywhere compared to the stock compound.

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I left all material thick enough for strength here I just counter sunk a hole for the Acme nut hold down it probably is not needed since it fits in a tight pocket now but I put it in anyway.


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## stevecmo

Wow, very impressive!  I bet that will make a ton of difference.


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## Dave Smith

Very nice work Ray and a good improvement----Dave


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## Smudgemo

Neat project, Ray.  Out of curiosity, where'd you get the micrometer carriage stop?  It looks like the one Tom Griffin made plans for on his website Tom's Techniques that I've started making.  It looks really nice, too.

-Ryan


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## iron man

I made a cap out of a piece of 5/16 x 1 1/2 CR bar stock I installed a 1/2 x 3/8 bronze bushing it I also installed a South bend  1 1/2" direct read dial its bigger easyier to read so if I turn it one thousands I will only cut off one thousands not 2 off the total diameter. looks like I am ready for paint! be right back...

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 Look here I saved the cast iron pieces I cut off the dove tail of the tool compound and made a gib out of it this.


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## iron man

I hate waiting for paint to dry specially this paint takes about a month to get really hard. But well worth the time it probably took as long to explain it as it did to make it. It has a much wider stance and does not wiggle around anymore it will be stronger the entire range of use. Cast iron would work fine for the compound slide I just was in to big of a hurry to get started!! This should never ever crack or break I have made steel compounds before and they work fine but this cast one saved a lot of machine work and it mills about like brass or bronze.

I have $25 in the whole project got to love that!! The dove tails and the drilling and tapping are the most intense moments the thought of breaking a mill cutter or breaking a tap or drill bit is heart breaking this did not happen but is always stressfull. the stressproof could be hardened I choose not to because it does not need it. I have made taps out of it before so it can be made to get really hard but it machines much better than cold rolled otherwise I would have just used CR bar stock. Thanks for lookin and any comments or questions always glade to help. Ray


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## iron man

Smudgemo said:


> Neat project, Ray. Out of curiosity, where'd you get the micrometer carriage stop? It looks like the one Tom Griffin made plans for on his website Tom's Techniques that I've started making. It looks really nice, too.
> 
> -Ryan



 I made that from scratch never saw an artical before I made it I just needed one and started in there handy when you make your own dials.. Thanks Ray


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## pdentrem

Very nice! For the same reasons I too made a new top slide, and I also thought of the upper swivel but I ended up selling my Atlas and bought a over all bigger and better lathe. Nothing wrong with the Atlas, within it's limits, just wanted better.
Pierre


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## Phonnold

Very nice job there.  Commenting so I can fine this thread later.

PH


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## iron man

Dranreb said:


> Interesting...I'll be watching this, as I do have a slotted cross slide that's much more rigid but a stiffer compound would be more useful to me..
> 
> Bernard



 A different cross slide is next!!! Thanks Ray


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## chuckorlando

Very nice man


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## iron man

What I really like about it is the nice flat surface for my QCTH I made and the nice flat compound for a dial indicator base. The stock one was made like a barn roof and got in the way of both.


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## iron man

Here I made a cut off tool holder for the tool post I just made this is kind of fun. Thanks for the comments. Ray


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## iron man

Dranreb said:


> Interesting...I'll be watching this, as I do have a slotted cross slide that's much more rigid but a stiffer compound would be more useful to me..
> 
> Bernard



 Did the T slotted cross slide help it be more rigid?? I am thinking about making a long cross slide but with out the T slots I will probably never use them. Ray


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## GK1918

Excellently done Ray, I love the flat top and especially the paint.  Although I do not own an Atlas I picked up a good thing here, the compound
lock bolts are toward the operator, unlike our S. Bends are on the back side (always getting into the way) of the tailstock.
thats nice !!
sam


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## Dranreb

iron man said:


> Did the T slotted cross slide help it be more rigid?? I am thinking about making a long cross slide but with out the T slots I will probably never use them. Ray



This is the type if longer slide I have Ray, I used to use it with a four way tool post and it's very much more rigid, it bridges any wear in the saddle dovetails made by the shot slide, it's around 9" long, I mount my milling attachment on it.

 I'd like to use it with a compound fitted and my QCTP, mocking it up I can see how one might be made to fit if the degree scale was made thin and flat, or even engraved into the slide itself.

The rear parting off post does work really well but I never use it now as it's too much trouble to change the slide, but if you're making a longer slide anyway it might be an idea to make a way of fitting one.







Bernard

View attachment 74865


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## iron man

Thanks for posting those pictures that is one beefed up compound I was going to purchase the one that is cast up with partial slots in it but after reading a reveiw I think I would be better off to get a chunk of cast iron from speedy metals and make it the way I want including the degree marks as you pointed out. The use of the entire dove tail will make it wear consistantly and will give more support.. I used the compound today for the first time and man what a differance!!! even if I would have kept the same compound and just made the lower slide it would have worked ten times better than the stock one. Thanks again for the reply and the pictures. Ray


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## iron man

GK1918 said:


> Excellently done Ray, I love the flat top and especially the paint. Although I do not own an Atlas I picked up a good thing here, the compound
> lock bolts are toward the operator, unlike our S. Bends are on the back side (always getting into the way) of the tailstock.
> thats nice !!
> sam



 Thanks Sam you should be able to do the same for the SB I started on one of those when I was a kid nice little lathe. Ray


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## Dranreb

:madebooboo:  The first pic in my last post has the parting tool upside down in the rear tool  post, I put all the parts together loosely for the pic and didn't notice...:whacky:

Benard


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## iron man

Is that a stock slide something that Atlas offered or is that an aftermarket slide?? Thanks Ray


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## Dranreb

Its off an Atlas turret lathe Ray, it came in a box of bits with my first Atlas, most accessories they made for the 10" are shown on this page.... 

http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/page10.html





Bernard


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## oldschoolcj5

hello 
 First wanted to say really nice compound that you made. I have been thinking of making a new one someday for mine after i make a new cross slide. Here is a pic of the MLA atlas slide i found on another board.


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## iron man

oldschoolcj5 said:


> hello
> First wanted to say really nice compound that you made. I have been thinking of making a new one someday for mine after i make a new cross slide. Here is a pic of the MLA atlas slide i found on another board.
> 
> 
> View attachment 75074



That is pretty much what I want to make next I have not decided on if I need the T slots or not I have never had a use for them but one never knows. The second thing I would like to do is either stamp the degrees right into the compound or cut them on a ring and counter sink it slightly below the surface. This would give the upper slide more contact point than just the stock circle and may make it more rigid so I will probably just start out with a solid piece of cast. 

I might add that until I made the upper compound it was kind a vibration magnet I often found myself locking it down till it could not move to make it work. That problem is now gone with the recent mod but I am always looking to make things better. Thanks for the pictures and the comments it always helps to see what others have done.. Ray


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## oldschoolcj5

the reason i was looking at doing a cross slide like that was being able to put a rear cut off on it. Then adding a quick change tool post mounting block mounted directly onto the cross slide like this pic i also found on another board.





that is the reason i have joined some of these boards. to be able to see what others have done. i just recently joined this board because i liked what you did for the saddle modifications. i am in the process of ordering the materials for doing that and also building the t-slot slide then a new compound. once i get a new base cast for my benchmaster mill.


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## Dranreb

oldschoolcj5 said:


> the reason i was looking at doing a cross slide like that was being able to put a rear cut off on it. Then adding a quick change tool post mounting block mounted directly onto the cross slide like this pic i also found on another board.
> 
> View attachment 75095
> 
> 
> i just recently joined this board because i liked what you did for the saddle modifications.



That's the same cross slide as I have, and I had been thinking of doing exactly what's shown in that pic, but I wonder what compound and tool post it's intended for.
Using the standard compound that way means only using a small tool bit on the lowest adjustment with my QCTP, which makes it impractical for me, but it might just be OK with a lantern or some other type.

As a beginner I was very happy with my Atlas, I went to a lot of trouble to get it absolutely rigidly fixed down and adjusted right.
When I got more adventurous it soon became clear that what seemed to be a lack of skill on my part was often down to the flexibility of these parts, all very frustrating. 

This thread has come along at the perfect time for me as I reckon when Ray has all the bugs worked out this will be a great project for my new shaper 
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
  and If that means not having to get a different lathe and all that involves, the shaper will pay for itself straight off! 

Can't wait for the next installment    :thumbzup:

Bernard


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## iron man

I just ordered some cast hope to get started soon on a different cross slide.. Ray


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## wa5cab

In the 1930's, 40's and 50's, Atlas made and sold three different cross slides in addition to the common one with the pintal or inverted cone post for the compound swivel.  The slide with the two T-slots at right angles is 9-671 Tool Post Slide.  It was normally sold as part of the Turret Cross Slide, or Carriage Slide, with a 4-position turret in the front T-slot and a single position tool post in the rear one.  I don't have the Model Number for the 9".  For 10", it was No. 670.  Sears sold a version for the 12" (which I have one of) but it never had an Atlas model number and Clausing can't find any concrete information on it.  I only know the Sears catalog number but not the model number.  From conversations with owners of several of the slides, I have concluded that both the 10" and 12" variants used the same slide.  The turret and rear tool post were of different heights (and in the case of the rear one, different shapes).  After 1957, Atlas changed the design somewhat (the front T-slot became two parallel slots and the turret became more complicated) and the model number was 6637.  I've never come across one of those.  The complete assembly, in addition to the slide, turret and tool post, included front and rear adjustable stops.  There was a variant that was lever instead of crank operated.

The other two types looked like the one in several of the photos in this thread with multiple T-slots parallel to the lathe axis.  The shorter one was 7" deep.  I think I recall that the longer one was 11" deep.  I've never found the model numbers of those two and have only ever seen one of each offered for sale (and got outbid on the shorter one).

It is worth noting that one could easily enough fit a QCTP on a spacer in place of the front turret.  However, there was never any provision for fitting the compound slide to any of them.  If anyone wanted to produce such a gadget, there might be a small market for it.

Robert D.


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## iron man

wa5cab said:


> In the 1930's, 40's and 50's, Atlas made and sold three different cross slides in addition to the common one with the pintal or inverted cone post for the compound swivel. The slide with the two T-slots at right angles is 9-671 Tool Post Slide. It was normally sold as part of the Turret Cross Slide, or Carriage Slide, with a 4-position turret in the front T-slot and a single position tool post in the rear one. I don't have the Model Number for the 9". For 10", it was No. 670. Sears sold a version for the 12" (which I have one of) but it never had an Atlas model number and Clausing can't find any concrete information on it. I only know the Sears catalog number but not the model number. From conversations with owners of several of the slides, I have concluded that both the 10" and 12" variants used the same slide. The turret and rear tool post were of different heights (and in the case of the rear one, different shapes). After 1957, Atlas changed the design somewhat (the front T-slot became two parallel slots and the turret became more complicated) and the model number was 6637. I've never come across one of those. The complete assembly, in addition to the slide, turret and tool post, included front and rear adjustable stops. There was a variant that was lever instead of crank operated.
> 
> The other two types looked like the one in several of the photos in this thread with multiple T-slots parallel to the lathe axis. The shorter one was 7" deep. I think I recall that the longer one was 11" deep. I've never found the model numbers of those two and have only ever seen one of each offered for sale (and got outbid on the shorter one).
> 
> It is worth noting that one could easily enough fit a QCTP on a spacer in place of the front turret. However, there was never any provision for fitting the compound slide to any of them. If anyone wanted to produce such a gadget, there might be a small market for it.
> 
> Robert D.



 In recent photos I have seen of a craftsman commercial 12" lathe it almost appears by the photo like the upper cross slide is longer and taller it would almost have to be taller but longer? or is that just an optical illusion.. Ray


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## pdentrem

The only pictures that I still have of the slide are from my 10". Here they are.
Pierre


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## wa5cab

Ray,

I don't know.  The late (AKA Commercial) 12" part is about 5-5/8" long (not including the bearing plate) by 1-7/16" tall (to the machined flats for the tool post).  This is tape measure and eyeball accuracy.  Maybe someone with an early 12" will chime in.  I don't have one available to measure.

Why would it have to be taller?

Robert D.



iron man said:


> In recent photos I have seen of a craftsman commercial 12" lathe it almost appears by the photo like the upper cross slide is longer and taller it would almost have to be taller but longer? or is that just an optical illusion.. Ray


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## iron man

wa5cab said:


> Ray,
> 
> I don't know. The late (AKA Commercial) 12" part is about 5-5/8" long (not including the bearing plate) by 1-7/16" tall (to the machined flats for the tool post). This is tape measure and eyeball accuracy. Maybe someone with an early 12" will chime in. I don't have one available to measure.
> 
> Why would it have to be taller?
> 
> Robert D.



 Just a thought the reason it would have to be taller is because the regular 12" compound is very tall. The commercial compound I only had to cut off 5/16" to make it the same height as the 10 inch compound so it would have to be taller at the slide or somewhere .. Which it appears to be it is also alot longer than the stock non-commercial slide or at least the 10 inch one that is only 4 1/4" long X 7/8 tall. I wish I had the commercial lathe obviously a better thought out machine. Ray


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## Dranreb

Dranreb said:


> That's the same cross slide as I have, and I had been thinking of doing exactly what's shown in that pic, but I wonder what compound and tool post it's intended for.
> Using the standard compound that way means only using a small tool bit on the lowest adjustment with my QCTP, which makes it impractical for me, but it might just be OK with a lantern or some other type.
> 
> 
> 
> Bernard



I'm now thinking that it may have been made for mounting an Atlas milling attachment instead of a compound, so the height wouldn't matter at all..





Bernard

Edit, pic added


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## pdentrem

The Atlas milling attachment actually mounted to the top swivel. I have a Palmgren milling attachment and it would mount onto the slide, not the top swivel. I did make up a base to fit the Palmgren to the top swivel as shown in this picture. I found that this setup was very flexible while with the milling attachment directly on the slide it was much more stable. It all comes down to surface area and fit of the dovetails for how stable anything mounted to the carriage will be.
Pierre


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## iron man

pdentrem said:


> The Atlas milling attachment actually mounted to the top swivel. I have a Palmgren milling attachment and it would mount onto the slide, not the top swivel. I did make up a base to fit the Palmgren to the top swivel as shown in this picture. I found that this setup was very flexible while with the milling attachment directly on the slide it was much more stable. It all comes down to surface area and fit of the dovetails for how stable anything mounted to the carriage will be.
> Pierre



 I got one just like that one clever mount you got there. Ray


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## pdentrem

Thanks Ray
You will note that the sub-base is some what thick. The reason I did this was to center the pivot bolt with the center of the spindle. This way the vice and the cutting forces would be better balanced. The piece was made from a broken punch press die parts. That is why there are extra holes. It was not too hard to cut, but on the Atlas it was easy as you go. No heavy cuts. The rabbet on the left was to locate the back edge of the Palmgren and the other cut on the right was to allow me to read to degree lines on the swivel.

If you go ahead with making a new and longer lower sivel or even a new slide as shown earlier, the 9-671 Tool Post Slide, you will find that things will be much better than currently. The original slide is pretty short and with the longer slide that holds the full lenght of the dovetails, chatter is greatly reduced and the milling attachment will be much more stable as well. At least that was what I had found over the near 20 yrs that I had my Atlas. I really only used the regular top slide assy when cutting tapers and threads, otherwise the before mentioned Tool Post Slide was used for everything else.
Pierre


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## wa5cab

Dunno why it wouldn't just show it.  Maybe that only works with JPG's.  Have to look into that.

Anyway, the PDF shows the long 9-671 cross slide as it was originally intended to be used as part of the No. 670 Carriage Turret on the 10" Atlas.  The 12" is the same until sometime after 1958 except that the turret and tool post are taller and the rear tool post is square.

Robert D.


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## iron man

Anyway I thought I would post an update I had to do some heavy boring for a friend of mine and I am amazed at the differance the new compound and upper compound slide have made!! Along with the QCTH I made it is one rock solid unit. I cannot wait to see what a new longer lower slide will do when I get that all made.. Ray


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## pdentrem

I bet you will see another marked improvement again.
Pierre


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## Plasanator

Not sure if I could watch him cut the compound again? gets me shaking too much.
I need a beer!


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## kcoffield

Really like it Ray. Noticed you mentioned the cross slide is next. I'm on with the cross slide project but would like to do something similar with the compound to accommodate the additional cross slide height. Was going to cast the iron bits myself. Had a couple questions for you.



iron man said:


> Here it is nearly complete notice the differance in length compared to the stock one. When these started to break and I have seen a lot of them you would have thought Atlas would have fixed the problem but since they could sell more parts they just kept going with a bad design


What is the overall length you chose?


iron man said:


> As you can see the original has the nut off center


.....and what was the rationale for why they did that?


iron man said:


> Here it is side by side with a stock unit notice how much wider


What is the overall width? Is the dovetail width the same on the commercial version of the slide?

I'm not an Atlas aficionado so am not familiar with all the  nuance differences between the models.

Best,
Kelly


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## brino

@kcoffield 
Hi Kelly,

Just an FYI, unfortunately user @iron man hasn't been here in a almost two years:



Don't be surprised if you do NOT get a reply.......

-brino


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## wa5cab

I don't have a 10" or early 12" to measure.  So all that I can tell you is the following.  

The cross slide dovetail must be the same as the early and late taper attachments fit and the follow rest is the same. The gibs for the cross slide and the compound slide are the same so the lengths must be about the same.  And the dimensions of the pintle (the inverted truncated cone on top of the cross slide must be the same as the same Milling Attachment fits.  

However, the compound slide is not nearly as tall because the early 12" compound upper slide is the only part on the carriage assembly that is not the same as on the 10" version (not counting the longitudinal and cross feed interlock).  So the 1" total difference in height between 10# and 12" was made up in the compound slide.  On the so-called Commercial 12", the saddle is taller and heavier than the one on the 10" and early 12" was.


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## pdentrem

Not sure on what size lathe Kelly has.
On my 10” the gibs were the same on cross section but the cross slide gib was longer than the compound one. 4 screws vs 3 if my memory is not faulty.

Kelly here is my posting.








						Replacement Compound slide for Atlas 10
					

I have started to make a replacement compound slide as my original cast iron one is a repaired one and I do not want to continue to use it.  First you start with a block of steel and square it up. Yesterday I milled out the area for the nut for the screw and the majority of the metal where the...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				



Pierre


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## kcoffield

brino said:


> Just an FYI, unfortunately user @iron man hasn't been here in a almost two years:


Too bad. Thanks for letting know Brino.


wa5cab said:


> The cross slide dovetail must be the same as the early and late taper attachments fit and the follow rest is the same. The gibs for the cross slide and the compound slide are the same so the lengths must be about the same. And the dimensions of the pintle (the inverted truncated cone on top of the cross slide must be the same as the same Milling Attachment fits...........However, the compound slide is not nearly as tall because the early 12" compound upper slide is the only part on the carriage assembly that is not the same as on the 10" version (not counting the longitudinal and cross feed interlock). So the 1" total difference in height between 10# and 12" was made up in the compound slide. On the so-called Commercial 12", the saddle is taller and heavier than the one on the 10" and early 12" was


Thanks for that Robert. Seemed like the dovetails would be the same. I guess I figured the 10" compound sat an inch lower and the even though the ways are thicker on the commercial, the head stock, tail stock, and carriage all sit on top the ways so I was guessing the commercial 12" compound was the same height as mine, albeit, apparently wider.



pdentrem said:


> Not sure on what size lathe Kelly has. On my 10” the gibs were the same on cross section but the cross slide gib was longer than the compound one. 4 screws vs 3 if my memory is not faulty. Kelly here is my posting.


Pierre, My lathe is an earlier (circa 1937) 12" Craftsman. It's story is here....and thank you for the link to your custom compound.








						New Caretaker of Two 12” Craftsman Lathes
					

Hi all, first post here. I’m the new caretaker of two 12” Craftsman lathes, one with a 42” bed and the other 54”. Though they recently came into my possession they are well known to me. The 42 is model 101.07403 number SN 16014 and the 54 is model 101.07403 SN 22500. The only place I’ve found...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				



I've read some comments about compound breakage. Dunno if the 10s are more prone to that or not. I'm thinking I only need about 1/4"-1/2" less height than my existing compound so I don't need the whole inch gained by the 10" compound. The used prices for compounds on the auction sites are pretty spendy and since I will likely modify it anyway, right now I'm thinking I'll probably just cast (iron) and machine my own tweener variant that most resembles the wider 12" commercial compound. I will take a look at a slightly longer base like iron mans build.

Still not sure I fully understand or buy into the reasoning for the lead screw being off center.

Here are the three. I dimensioned my existing compound.







Best,
Kelly


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## wa5cab

The only cases of compound breakage of the cast iron 10" and 3/8" bed 12" compound slides that I have ever heard of were breaking out the T-slot and were generally caused by crashes (Operator Headspace), using an inadequate T-nut such as one made on a lathe instead of a mill or one that was too short, and similar preventable mistakes.  Note that I said cast iron only.


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