# Milling Machine DRO, 3 axis or 4? (Poll)



## RandyM (Mar 7, 2014)

I am thinking about adding DRO to my Bridgeport and am thinking of the table x and y. The third axis is the knee. Would I regret not having a readout on the quill? I would rather do it right the first time than do it twice. I have absolutely no plans at a CNC conversion. Give me your thoughts and a vote.

And I am looking at the DRO Pros magnetic scale packages. Any input on these would also be appreciated.

:thankyou:


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## LEEQ (Mar 7, 2014)

I know a lot of guys will tell you different, but I use all 4. I would look at the el700 with a discount on the new touch probe. They did not have the fourth axis or probe when I got my el400. So I settled on that one with 4 axis. I like the fancy images on the 700. Really looks simple. I love what I have, but I would do it different now. My 2 cents.


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## Ray C (Mar 7, 2014)

IMO:  X ,Y and the quill need DRO.  The head or knee... -not so much.  I don't have knee mill; instead, I raise/lower the head (different way of accomplishing the same thing).  I have DRO on the Z (head) axis on my mill and don't think I've ever used it in the last 5 years.

The real rub is that a mill with DRO on the X and Y with a caliper on the quill is still called a 2 Axis DRO setup...

Ray


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## RandyM (Mar 7, 2014)

LEEQ said:


> I know a lot of guys will tell you different, but I use all 4. I would look at the el700 with a discount on the new touch probe. They did not have the fourth axis or probe when I got my el400. So I settled on that one with 4 axis. I like the fancy images on the 700. Really looks simple. I love what I have, but I would do it different now. My 2 cents.



Thanks Lee, You have given me some good info to think about.

- - - Updated - - -



Ray C said:


> IMO:  X ,Y and the quill need DRO.  The head or knee... -not so much.  I don't have knee mill; instead, I raise/lower the head (different way of accomplishing the same thing).  I have DRO on the Z (head) axis on my mill and don't think I've ever used it in the last 5 years.
> 
> The real rub is that a mill with DRO on the X and Y with a caliper on the quill is still called a 2 Axis DRO setup...
> 
> Ray



Ya know Ray, you may have a point. My machining process would have to change but, it is worth thinking about. Right now not having DRO at all I find that I control my z-axis accuracy with the knee. But if I just had a DRO on the quill I might find my operational process being a little different. Thanks.


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## jamie76x (Mar 7, 2014)

X and Y axis are nice to have a read out on, But the knee is the easiest to keep track of and the axis you just don't move unless you have too. You don't bore with it, drill with it or plunge with it really since you have very little feel due to the weight of the knee, table and work. I think adding a readout to this axis is just for showing off.

As far as a quil readout, I like the add on ones that are basically a digital caliper. They are cheap, work well and when they break they are easy and cheap to replace. A real DRO scale is pretty expensive.


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## fastback (Mar 7, 2014)

I guess I'm the odd ball here.  I have a 2 axis glass scale DRO from DRO PROS on my BP. If I had to do it over I think I would get the 3 axis so I would have one on the knee.  I like the fact that the DRO's are very easy to read, no eye strain.  I also like the idea that all of my readings are in one place.  

I recently installed a AccuRemote (purchased from David H) on my quill and really like it. I think it will be good for setting up on blind holes etc.

At this point, I am considering adding on last one on the knee.  It just seems to make a well balanced system.

My thinking is to not only get most out of the machine but to also get the most out of me.

Just my opinion.

Paul


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## Senna (Mar 7, 2014)

I voted for 4 axis but ONLY if the display is capable of summing the readouts from the quill and the knee.

If it doesn't sum those two readouts then the result is no better than the old optical measuring devices such as the Vernac meaning you have to do the math.

I'll go with a glass scale 4 axis with summing on one of my Gorton mills and I'll go with the optical Vernac for a period correct setup on my other Gorton mill but only on the X the Y and the knee trusting instead the fine micrometer adjustment for the quill.


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## rmack898 (Mar 7, 2014)

I put a  2 axis Anilam on my BP and am very sorry I didn't pony up the extra for Z on the knee  
I agree that the caliper type read outs on the quill are a good bang for the buck, even the home brew versions.


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## RandyM (Mar 7, 2014)

Thank you guys, you all have some good ideas to think about. But, I am seeing a trend here and it has to do with how you use the machine. On a particular set up I may run the knee up and down several times to get clearance for tool changes. I like to keep the quill locked in the up position to keep things rigid, unless I am using it as a drill press or boring. I have not found that I am boring or drilling to accurate depths, yet. So, if I understand the poll, I should add 2 axis and make do with the knee as is and add something inexpensive for the quill. Or add a 4 axis and have all my bases covered or as one already put "show off". Thanks guys good stuff.

I just don't want to do this and come up short. Once is enough.


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## JimDawson (Mar 7, 2014)

I just recently added the quill and knee to my mill.  I didn't really know how useful it would be until I had it installed. It seems to speed up some positioning operations.  Also, if you have a 3-axis CNC the DRO on the knee allows you to make quick depth corrections on the fly.


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## Cuebuilder (Mar 7, 2014)

I had 2 axis on my Bridgeport clone MSC and when I decided I wanted a 3 axis I thought why not get 4 axis. Can't do it later so might as well do it now. Well that was 4 years ago, I have not regretted one minute since I did it. The reason I like it so much is because  if I have to drop the table or raise the quill to get around an object, like the vise or a clamp, then I can return to exactly where I was in height. If you do get it I would suggest the better scales for the z and the q scales, I think mine are 1 um on the z and Q. The X and Y are standard 5um resolution. It adds 100.00 to the price but well worth it. By the way I bought mine from DRO PROS and the new one for my lathe came from them as well. They are great people to work with. If you are confused on anything or just need advise they will answer all your questions.

    Cuebuilder


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## chuckorlando (Mar 7, 2014)

I picked 4. X and Y are just awesome. A quill one would get alot of use. The knee would not get much use I dont think. But I'm spending your money right now :thinking: in my short time using a mill, there have been a few times the knee would be nice. Your inserts get dull or you need to change tools. Facing multiple pieces to the same size would be alot easier I think, if you knew your knee 0 from the first part.


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## Cobra (Mar 7, 2014)

I put DROPROs scales on my newly purchased G0755.  The support started from the first contact with them. I let them know the machine and the walked me through the choice of just X and Y in the magnetic scales with the 400 series dedicated mill interface.  By far the best purchase yet for the improvement on the machine. He recommended that if I ever did want a readout on the quill that I use a stand alone Miti unit from ENCO.  While not dead easy on the small mill the instructions were good and succeeded the first time. 
I cannot recommend DROPROs enough.


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## melsdad (Mar 7, 2014)

I voted 4 axis. I just installed a 3 axis system on my mill with plans of a quill readout in the future. 

The Scale on the knee may not be necessary, but I find it more of a luxury item than anything. I figured I would do it now and not wish I would have done it later. 

Previously when I wanted to accuratley position in the Z I used a indicator with a magnetic back on the column. I didn't trust the dial on my handle. I really can't recall how many times I could not clearly see the indicator in certain set-ups, or forgot to move it before I cranked the Z up for a different operation. Now that I have it installed I absolutely love it and have no regrets spending the few extra bucks for the 3rd axis. 



sent from my hand held hickymajig


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## Hawkeye (Mar 7, 2014)

My ZX-25 has a quill, but no knee. My Victoria U2 has a knee, but no quill on the vertical head. My view is that , if it can be moved _while machining_, it should have a display. Like Ray, I don't bother with it on the head of the round-column ZX.


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## kd4gij (Mar 7, 2014)

The BP where I work has dro and power feed on X,Y,and knee. It is a pleasure to operate. We use the knee for boaring. Only use the quil for drilling.


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## darkzero (Mar 8, 2014)

I voted 3 axis although 2 axis is pretty sufficient. Like Ray, I don't consider the addition of a digital scale on the quill an additional axis of the DRO unit. So in my book a DRO with X, Y, & Z scales plus a digital scale on the quill is still a 3 axis DRO.

Also agreeing with Ray, although I don't have a knee mill, I do have the 3rd Z axis on my DRO but it's not something that I find very useful. I really only use it at times to mark a zero location and when I move the Z & come back to the location I just get it in the general area. I really only use X, Y, & the quill scale for precise monitoring & is why I stated 2 axis is sufficient.

The BPs I used at the local college just had 2 axis DROs, X & Y only & I really didn't see a need for a DRO on the knee. If you don't mind the additional cost & installation for the Z I would say go for it. If it's something that you are on the fence & considering I would say go foir it cause you might always get that feeling of regret not getting it.

Now if you can mount a glass scale for the DRO & have it read on the DRO display that would be awesome. I've been planning  to do something similar if I can mount a slim glass scale inside the head & if I can add the fourth axis on my DRO.


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## Kennyd (Mar 8, 2014)

Looks like you have the answer Randy, all four it is


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## RandyM (Mar 8, 2014)

Kennyd said:


> Looks like you have the answer Randy, all four it is



Yeah, it is adding up that way.


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## xalky (Mar 8, 2014)

I voted for 4, but the knee and the quill should be additive. I raise the knee 90% of the time when I have to go deeper with the cutter for milling. I like to keep the quill all the way up when I'm milling steel especially. For softer metals, it's not so important. 

I have a 2 axis x/y on my mill with a cheap Igaging on the knee. I want to get a cheap digital scaly for my quill too, but, I just haven't gotten around to it.

For most things, x-y is really all you need- I consider that a must have, PERIOD.  The other 2 on the z are just a makes it a little more convenient.


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## rick9345 (Mar 8, 2014)

I do a lot of odd ball one off machine work can,t live with out my 4 read outs and power knee, sharp LMV.
tool changes and back to zero

I have power on x,y,z,and quill, use them all.

Cranking is for curmudgeons


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## ranch23 (Mar 8, 2014)

I have 2 axis Mitutoyo and am quite satisfied, however I would not like to live without my Touch Probe.


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## melsdad (Mar 9, 2014)

One thing I should mention is the Z axis scale was the most difficult to install.  At least it was for my machine with a tapered column.  The mounts and guard that came with my system were of no use. I had to make all the mounts and guards myself.  Another thing was indicating the scale in. Be prepared to do alot of cranking or use a 3/4" drill like I did.








sent from my hand held hickymajig


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## jaycan (Mar 20, 2014)

Cobra said:


> I put DROPROs scales on my newly purchased G0755.  The support started from the first contact with them. I let them know the machine and the walked me through the choice of just X and Y in the magnetic scales with the 400 series dedicated mill interface.  By far the best purchase yet for the improvement on the machine. He recommended that if I ever did want a readout on the quill that I use a stand alone Miti unit from ENCO.  While not dead easy on the small mill the instructions were good and succeeded the first time.
> I cannot recommend DROPROs enough.



Hi
I apologize for sidetracking this thread however I have a G0755 in transit and I ordered a 8 x 20 Grizzly DRO
to install on it.
Any tips or pictures would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
Jim


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## Cobra (Mar 20, 2014)

I don't have any photos currently but will try to get out to the shop this afternoon and take some that I can post.


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## Cadillac STS (Mar 21, 2014)

Bit of a thread hijack but the low speed high torque drill and adapter used here is a great addition to the knee.  The adapter just has same mating face as the manual handle and it comes off easily so handle can go on for small manual adjustment.  I have a hook on the wall with my drill on it at the ready for a long traverse.  Really nice for repetitive things like drilling and taping with the spring device where you need to go up and down.  The drill and adapter usually found on the auction site.  Can make your own adapter.

Sorry if you guys already knew this but it is so nice I thought I'd post.


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## bridgeportbj (Mar 22, 2014)

A reader on the quill is real handy for drilling.
 B.J.


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## valleyboy101 (Apr 9, 2014)

I voted - keep doing it the hard way, there should have been a wanna have.  My plan is for a 3 axis DRO (probably a Shooting Star) with a caliper style on the quill.  It is at the top of the want list and as with so much else it is just a matter of $.
Michael


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## astjp2 (Apr 11, 2014)

I maintain 8 Trak DPM-3 mills that have 4 axis with z summing and these are bed mills and use it all the time, I also have 2 Bridgeport series 1 and an ez Trak that only have 2 axis, the additional axis values are great for depth machining, its hard on your spindle bearings if you extend it out.  I will bring the quill down to get the part height, raise it and then move the head down for the cutting.  Its also much stiffer when you do it this way.  Tim


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## Bill Gruby (Apr 11, 2014)

Please define, "Keep doing it the hard way"? If you are referring to manual operation it is not the hard was, just a tad slower. I will keep doing it that way. It has served me well for over 40 years.

 "Billy G"


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## RandyM (Apr 11, 2014)

Bill Gruby said:


> Please define, "Keep doing it the hard way"? If you are referring to manual operation it is not the hard was, just a tad slower. I will keep doing it that way. It has served me well for over 40 years.
> 
> "Billy G"



You are correct Bill. The hard way is "counting the turns of the crank and remembering". My mind is getting old and rusty. Many a time I had to start over, particularly when I get past 10. Not saying can't continue on that way as well, but I am getting soft, I do tend to like creature comforts.


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## nickmckinney (Apr 11, 2014)

I vote 4 as I can't count how many times I got interrupted, stop the work, come back and say where the fudge was I with this. If you look at the top of an old mill table and see a gazillion "oops", a knee/quill DRO would have probably prevented 90% of them. So far my current mill has zero oops, but the vice has a couple drill bit marks.

I am going to be putting DRO and those LED light rings on every mill and drill press in my shop as the budget allows. You can do DRO cheaply enough with these kits as well if not concerned with 001 accuracy:


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