# I can't believe how much better a good dial indicator is!



## jmx66 (Jul 8, 2017)

I've had a cheap dial indicator for awhile and won an eBay auction for this vintage (?) Japanese-made Enco.
It looks unused. It is so much nicer to use! Smoother, more repeatable, needle doesn't jump around.
Just wanted to share and encourage anyone getting frustrated with their cheap indicator to think about an upgrade.


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## mikey (Jul 8, 2017)

I had a similar experience, JM, but watch for an Interapid or Compac DTI. Using that will give you the same jump that you noted when going from Chinese.


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## Bob Korves (Jul 9, 2017)

mikey said:


> I had a similar experience, JM, but watch for an Interapid or Compac DTI. Using that will give you the same jump that you noted when going from Chinese.


Or a B&S BesTest.  Swiss made.  I have three of them, large dial .0005 and .0001", and a small dial .0005" set with accessories.  I actually prefer the Interapid ones, but they are all close and excellent.  Compac is also very good.  Any of the three, B&S BesTest, Compac, or Interapid are about as good as DTI's get.  The prices also match the quality, at least new.  I have about $50 total in my three BesTest DTI's, bought used, and they all work just fine.  Sorry, lovers of America's best.  I feel that Starrett indicators are not even close to as good as the best Swiss indicators.  I have several of them collecting dust...  I have some old Federal indicators that I actually like more than the Starretts, mostly because they seem to be bulletproof...


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## mikey (Jul 9, 2017)

A good Swiss indicator is rather expensive when new but these instruments can last for decades with care. One of the most useful in the Compac line is the 214GA; reads in 0.0005" increments over a 0.06" range with large units so they're easy to see and is smooth as silk. They have stronger bearings than a comparable Interapid, which makes them a bit more forgiving on the shop floor. Brand new, they went for about $300.00. Here is a used one that should clean up nicely for under $60.00:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Compac-Tesa...457523?hash=item361c4413b3:g:tvYAAOSwyWZZTU3n

I have three of these (you gotta' have back ups, right?) and they are my most used indicators. One of mine is brand new and I cannot tell the difference between the new and used ones. 

There are also several 215GA's on ebay going for $135-160.00 or so. These are 0.0001" indicators. Useful when you need the resolution and also very smooth.


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## jmx66 (Jul 9, 2017)

Y'all are gonna get me in trouble with the wife.


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## benmychree (Jul 9, 2017)

Say what you will, but I have been using a Starrett "Last Word" indicator for about 50 years now (yes, the same one) and have never had any sort of problem with it, only occasionally adjusting the pivot screw to take up for wear; they are so simple as to be bullet proof and will fit into smaller places than their Swiss cousins, and exchanging different probes is exceedingly simple.


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## benmychree (Jul 9, 2017)

Say what you will, but I have been using a Starrett "Last Word" indicator for about 50 years now (yes, the same one) and have never had any sort of problem with it, only occasionally adjusting the pivot screw to take up for wear; they are so simple as to be bullet proof and will fit into smaller places than their Swiss cousins, and exchanging different probes is exceedingly simple.


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## mikey (Jul 9, 2017)

benmychree said:


> Say what you will, but I have been using a Starrett "Last Word" indicator for about 50 years now (yes, the same one) and have never had any sort of problem with it, only occasionally adjusting the pivot screw to take up for wear; they are so simple as to be bullet proof and will fit into smaller places than their Swiss cousins, and exchanging different probes is exceedingly simple.



My Last Word is now over 30 years old and works well, too. Starrett tools take a lot of verbal abuse nowadays but their older tools are still going strong and I wonder if a cheap Chinese indicator will still be alive after 5 years.


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## ddickey (Jul 9, 2017)

I bought one of these for $98. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-COMPAC-...-0-0-01mm-Graduations-WL13-4-11-/172528481406
It had so much hysteresis I sent it to Mark R. for a going over. I can't remember exactly what he did but it is better but still has it. Very annoying imo.
Not sure if i would buy another.
Possible that this model may be low on the totem pole.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jul 9, 2017)

I'm stuck on B&S and Mitutoyo 
but i do own, use, and like Starrett and Federal 
i use cheapo import indicators where the possibility of potential destruction exists and then verify with more accurate means if necessary


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## benmychree (Jul 9, 2017)

Another thing that I like about the Last Word indicator is its mounting method with the friction swivel connectors; it sets up and adjusts easily with a minimum of parts.  I do have a B&S, but use the Starrett much more.


ddickey said:


> I bought one of these for $98.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-COMPAC-...-0-0-01mm-Graduations-WL13-4-11-/172528481406
> It had so much hysteresis I sent it to Mark R. for a going over. I can't remember exactly what he did but it is better but still has it. Very annoying imo.
> Not sure if i would buy another.
> Possible that this model may be low on the totem pole.


The screw adjustment (under the feeler) has an effect on slop, as the arm does not fully engage with the spiral slot in the pointer shaft if it (the screw) becomes loose.


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## waynecuefix (Sep 14, 2017)

I have recently purchased a lot of indicators on ebay when found reasonable. I love the old starrett last word and have even found some older collectible models such as the Last Word 711 D and the Last Word model C which is marked HA LOWES and is pre-Starrett. I use the Last word 711F for checking pool cues for joint face errors and I have refaced a few cues with great satisfaction. My web page on this is http://waynescuefix.weebly.com/.


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## C-Bag (Sep 14, 2017)

Thanks to this discussion and the rabbit hole of research it sent me down I realized I had more than one jewel in an old deal from '03. The shop I was working as an assembly mechanic had very few who knew of DI's much less use for them. A guy showed me an old junction box full of stuff and wanted $100. I laughed at him and he proceeded to ask the whole plant and nobody bit. He came back to me and after me really not wanting it finally gave him $20. It had two Starrett .0005's, a Federal and some Swiss make I'd never heard of. In the discussion on Compac I saw a familiar logo. Turns out to be an Alina .0001 large dial. Who knew?


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## Brnoczech (Sep 14, 2017)

Long Island Indicator, who sells and repairs indicators, has a website with comprehensive information about all brands of indicators, the plus's and minus's, and repairability.  I have purchased from them and received good service.


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## mmcmdl (Sep 14, 2017)

Hey ! Where did you guys get all that fancy stuff ? Here is what I use for my precision work .  1916 Fuchs indicator made by Ernest Bratschi Manufacturing in Cleveland Ohio . $6.25 with velvet lined case .


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## gi_984 (Sep 15, 2017)

Long Island Indicator website is a wealth of information.  I always go there first if I'm looking for information on DTI and accessories.  BesTest & Compaq are my favorites, followed by Starrett.


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## Doubleeboy (Sep 15, 2017)

When buying used test indicators I like metric, they are usually cheaper and there are plenty of Swiss made ones out there.  I second the Long Island Indicator site, if its not fixable its only worth a few bucks to me.   Mahr from Germany is good stuff too.  Dial Indicators are another ball of wax.  I really like the old Enco branded Japanese ones, most likely Peacock.


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## waynecuefix (Sep 15, 2017)

I have enjoyed using old indicators even the mechanical non-dial type. My favorite is an old Koch I rehabilitated with penetrant oil. It came in a large lot I won on ebay. Since then I have collected very antique indicator I can find like the Starrett 64A, Ideal,  Trico Micro-check, R. Reich, Gladwyn, Lufkin and a couple that aren't marked, which are all non-dial mechanical indicators. I have one huge cast iron indicator marked with only 193 which was obviously a lathe attachment consisting of a simple direct arm sweeping across crude graduations, very large and heavy... see photo. These old indicators did the job for the old folks long before these dial indicators came out and for some, quite long afterwards. I enjoy using them. Very nostalgic but they are effective. This one in the photo.... I haven't used it as it goes with a certain lathe. Anyone know which lathe?


	

		
			
		

		
	
.


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## waynecuefix (Sep 15, 2017)

Just arrived today.... Antique Boulet's Fine Tool Works Test Indicator*In Box w/ Extra Parts. Nice case and extra attachments. Bears three patent dates, Oct 2, 1900, Sept. 10, 1901, Feb 23, 1904. Smooth instrument. A pin extends @ 1/32" from the point (cannot be seen in the photo) which is the full extent of actuation.


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## Ulma Doctor (Sep 15, 2017)

very nice!


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## C-Bag (Sep 15, 2017)

Very cool. Ever see the Steam Powered Machine Shop on YouTube? I don't know which episode it is but I think that's the kind of indicator he used. I'd never seen one before and he uses mostly equipment that would have been in a machine shop in 1925. The whole thing is facinating and a little scary with the whole place run off one 5hp steam engine and all those line shafts and belts.


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## waynecuefix (Sep 16, 2017)

That is neat. I will look for that. Seems that the old stuff had a lot of merits we wouldn't know much about. But manufacturing back then produced stuff that would last. Cast iron vs plastic.


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## waynecuefix (Sep 16, 2017)

Yes I found it. It is the Old Steam Powered Machine Shop video #17. Makes sense that he would use an antique indicator, Boulet or other make, since everything else in that shop is antique. It would take some getting used to to put up with all the clatter in that shop and still be able to think and perform. Back in the day I can imagine itt was good pre-training for raising kids.


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## C-Bag (Sep 16, 2017)

It seems as though he was raised in a machine shop. I really like watching all the different jobs he does. Lots about steam too. He seems to take jobs nobody else can do. I think we'd be shocked at how small the shop and compact the shop is but he has everything. I'm more a fan of manual technique than CNC, so this whole thing fascinates me. I've sat my 87yrld dad down a couple of times and we've watched for hours. I alway pick up something.


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## waynecuefix (Sep 16, 2017)

While I am happy to not have to fire a boiler, fill oil cups and shift drive belts, I admire this machine shop practice of the past. And the thing about DIY has always appealed to me as I enjoy working with my hands. One day there will be something like a microwave oven that we put a basket of screws and metal scraps in and when the bell rings out comes a finished engine. Everyone will have muscle atrophy and boredom of the mind. Here is my Harbor Freight (Central Machinery) lathe set up for pool cue shaft work plus whatever work. While I have added accessories since this photo, it shows the basic out-rigger and roller rest scheme. The lathe is mounted to a 2 x 12 and the outriggers are 2 x 4 with a 6" window sill bed for mounting the roller rests. The 2 x 12 is set on top of a small cone drawer two shelf homemade cabinet that used to be a cartridge reloading bench. Improvements and accessories to this lathe have been 20 TPI kit, tailstock cam lock kit, apron gear chip guard, hand made shim to remove cross feed screw slack, (WHOA Tennessee just got a TD trailing still by 3) OXA Quick Change Holder kit, carriage stop, follower rest, and homemade collets etc. (WHOA TN just picked off FL). So this is an old pic. My lathe room is small with about 8 x 6 usable space. When I need to mount a house cue in the lathe I have to slide the end of the setup out into the door opening so I have space to insert the house cue into the back of the chuck/spindle. The cabinet is set on a piece of carpet to allow me to slide it out and back. I always thought if there's a will there's a way. The wall of my shop is covered with antique tools and implements. Photos .... 1. left side (spindle end) outrigger with cue shaft in roller rest or tip/ferrule work. 2. Right side outrigger with cue shaft set up for sanding/resizing/re-tapering with piece of carpet to catch dust. 3. Harbor Freight Lathe. Wish I had a longer bed but the 7 x 10 is just fine. Wayne


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## waynecuefix (Sep 16, 2017)

Some of my shop wall. The full wall can be viewed on the slide show near the bottom (scroll to) of my website http://waynescuefix.weebly.com/  The panel is a piece of plywood covered with burlap wrapped behind and stapled. With burlap, the screws and screw brackets can be used to mount/hang the tools and any screw can be removed without leaving a noticeable hole. There are several panels on this wall with tools. This wall is behind me as I sit at the lathe and there is a cast iron stove stand against that wall with a double 3/4" plywood top I use as a bench for the drill press and the grinder. The top of the drill press can be seen at the left. Just swiveling in an old office chair gives me access to either the lathe or the grinder bench. Usable space in this room is only 6 x 8.


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## C-Bag (Sep 16, 2017)

Love your setup and especially the addon steady rest. I'm going to have to keep that in mind for an upcoming project.

Some folks enjoy working with what's at hand. I just hate to do things the hard way. So i constantly struggle with figuring what I need and can fit in my shop and try not to get carried away. Discontent is the modern disease that drives the consumer society for the latest and greatest. Makes for a lot of junk.

I don't see the steam powered machine shop as necessarily the hard way. He just has more of an involved process  Not all old things have intrinsic quality, but I know it when I see it, use it and feel it. My buddy down the street apprenticed as a gauge maker and repairer in Germany after the war. His brother was a master machinist and taught apprentices and he showed several of the gages, dividers and tools they had to make. You could feel the quality.

I don't work in as small a shop as you as I have 19x20 garage, but in order to do the different processes I do everything has to be on castors. The only machine that isn't is my 9x20 lathe. But I do everything from welding, fabrication, machining, powdercoating, some woodworking and other stuff. All on a smaller scale. So I have to have a lot of ventilation and my garage door is always open for the light and air.

Old tools and used Chinese machines are how I get by. They have been cheaper and just like you I upgrade as necessary. Usually when I run into the limits of bad adjustment, wear or bad design and need more precision. Without the net and resources like Long Island Indicator, YouTube and the great tips I've gotten off this site I'd be lost. Most often I wouldn't have known where a problem was or how to fix it without my trusty dial indicators and test indicators.


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## waynecuefix (Sep 17, 2017)

Great setup. I have a workshop outside 20x30 tin covered shed but it is not suitable for machinery as it is not sealed and not insulated and has open eaves for ventilation. I have a Rockwell standing drill press and a Sears radial arm saw in  there and after 27 years they have rusty posts and carriage and will need some work before being usable properly. I was younger when I built it and saved a lot of money that probably should have been spent.
I ordered a Last Word crystal from Long Island Indicator service. They have the Starrett parts but cannot contract to repair Starrett devices. There is a lot of helpful info on their website.
Here is a hefty antique indicator I got last month. I am hoping someone can identify it as it has no markings.






My favorite antique indicator remains the Koch. patent 1906.


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## C-Bag (Sep 18, 2017)

I'm still really green to machining as most my career I was a car mechanic. I did a lot of engine rebuilding and used mic's and DI's and other gages. But the old stuff like what you have I'd never seen till the Steam Powered Machine Shop. There are several antique stores and every once in a while an estate sale and more often than not I'm totally stumped by some tool. Maybe somebody like Mr.Pete could have your indicator on his channel and somebody could chime in who made it and how it was used. I have a tendency to think things would have been crudely made back then, but then I find something like this Darling, Brown &Sharpe angle gage. It was a somewhat pitted, but it works perfectly and smoothly. Check out the date, and I'd never seen Darling, Brown & Sharpe, just Brown & Sharpe. How'd they do that?


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## markba633csi (Sep 18, 2017)

Wayne I like your roller rests. Did you make those rollers? 
Mark


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## waynecuefix (Sep 18, 2017)

markba633csi said:


> Wayne I like your roller rests. Did you make those rollers?
> Mark


I got those from ebay. I don't remember who it was but it may have been the guy who is selling them now...  sharpshooterbilliards-com . When I bought mine the guy advertised that he would custom make one for what height you need but I see this guy has different types. I bought mine and built rails to meet the height. When I want more height I use an aluminum 1x2x6 hollow bar under it. They are made for cues and when I bought mine there were narrow rollers and fat rollers. I see only fat rollers now and they are white instead of black. I did like the narrow ones best. Also they used to have allen socket adj screws and I liked them best. I got one with slotted screws which I replaced with socket screws. I think the rollers are Delrin which is pretty tough. That is what I make my cue collets with and you can buy those on ebay also. The picture shows the current ones offered and he has three different heights, but the pic is just demonstrative as there should be painters tape wrapped around the cue under the rollers. Wayne


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## waynecuefix (Sep 18, 2017)

oops


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## waynecuefix (Sep 18, 2017)

C-Bag said:


> I'm still really green to machining as most my career I was a car mechanic. I did a lot of engine rebuilding and used mic's and DI's and other gages. But the old stuff like what you have I'd never seen till the Steam Powered Machine Shop. There are several antique stores and every once in a while an estate sale and more often than not I'm totally stumped by some tool. Maybe somebody like Mr.Pete could have your indicator on his channel and somebody could chime in who made it and how it was used. I have a tendency to think things would have been crudely made back then, but then I find something like this Darling, Brown &Sharpe angle gage. It was a somewhat pitted, but it works perfectly and smoothly. Check out the date, and I'd never seen Darling, Brown & Sharpe, just Brown & Sharpe. How'd they do that?



I have seen those of various periods on ebay. As for yours, patent 1887, Mr. Darling joined Brown and Sharpe and then left so that also dates your protractor. I saved the history to wordpad and I will paste it here.....
FROM WIKIPEDIA
""Brown & Sharpe was founded in 1833 on South Main Street[3] in Providence, Rhode Island by David Brown and his son Joseph R. Brown. The elder Brown retired in 1841, and the younger Brown formed a partnership with Lucian Sharpe in 1853, giving the company its name.
The early years were full of innovations and inventions, including the first automatic machine for graduating rules (1850) and the precision Gear Cutting and Dividing Engine (1855).[3]
The company was incorporated in 1868. In 1866 Samuel Darling joined the partnership and the firm changed its name to Darling, Brown and Sharpe until Darling's interest was bought out in 1892.""
So DB&S or Darling Brown and Sharpe markings are from 1866 to 1892. And with a patent date 1887 (I can't read the other pat date) that narrows your protractor down to 1887-1892 unless they continued to stamp the name after Darling left. I have a couple of DB&S machinists squares. Also according to the history if a piece is marked J R BROWN AND SHARPE it is 1853 - 1866. There was a center finder on ebay J R Brown and Sharpe but I was outbid at 124.00 when I tried to snipe it. I do have a later center finder square just like it with B&S which would be post 1892, see photo.
I too am relatively green at machining. I worked as an auto mechanic during summer between college sessions because I did that kind of work as a poor boy necessity just to keep a car under me that I could afford. After college and military service I ended up being an electrician simply because I got a decent job in it and though mostly self taught combined with OJT I was able to fix stuff at a mill and it paid the family well.  I have only been machining about 5 years and mostly limited to cues and making what I need for that. Since I am walking disabled it is a great enjoyment to me. I can walk with a cane a few feet but must sit soon or fall. I use a rollator to shoot pool, that is how much I love the game.


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## waynecuefix (Sep 18, 2017)

Interesting you mentioned being a mechanic. Maybe you used a bore gauge. There was one with a dial that went too high on ebay but I was able to get one that was more antique which used an old mechanical type non-dial indicator. It was very reasonable and I was surprised it didn't have more bidders. Old but I have no idea how old. Marked....
FLEMING MACHINE CO.
Fleming
WORCESTER, MASS., U.S.A.


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## C-Bag (Sep 18, 2017)

When I'd been a mechanic for about 5-6yrs in the '70's there was a old guy who'd come into the shop that lived by going to swap meets. He saw my box and saw I was doing all the engine work and asked if I had any metrology tools. I already had 3 Starrett mic's and he asked if I had a bore mic. I didn't but needed one badly. He had this old Starrett set and I'm not sure if you would just call this an inside mic, but the price was right and it has served me well all these years. I think it's from around the teens or 20's because it has that smell old instruments and their cases from that time have. I think it's missing the piece you'd screw into the anvil retainer so you could drop it down in a hole. Luckily I don't have large hands and was always able weasel it in there. When in college I checked it against the dial bore gauge in the engine machining crib and it was right on.


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## C-Bag (Sep 18, 2017)

Interesting about the rollers in your rest. I would have guessed they were skateboard wheels as they are also used for bead roller dies too. During my last wage slave tour making fruit packing equipment they had a bone yard full of bad designs that sat outside. I was told to strip all the rollers off a driven roller conveyor. I got two 5gal buckets of them and they just sat there because we never used that design. I asked the boss for them one day and he said help myself. They are some kind vulcanized rubber on an aluminum hub with a sealed bearing. I use them for everything, and will use them for my version of a steady rest.


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## waynecuefix (Sep 19, 2017)

C-Bag said:


> When I'd been a mechanic for about 5-6yrs in the '70's there was a old guy who'd come into the shop that lived by going to swap meets. He saw my box and saw I was doing all the engine work and asked if I had any metrology tools. I already had 3 Starrett mic's and he asked if I had a bore mic. I didn't but needed one badly. He had this old Starrett set and I'm not sure if you would just call this an inside mic, but the price was right and it has served me well all these years. I think it's from around the teens or 20's because it has that smell old instruments and their cases from that time have. I think it's missing the piece you'd screw into the anvil retainer so you could drop it down in a hole. Luckily I don't have large hands and was always able weasel it in there. When in college I checked it against the dial bore gauge in the engine machining crib and it was right on.


That looks like the Starrett 124 series they had A and B and maybe more versions. I think it is a better set than my 124 and like you I do not have the 124H handle used by unscrewing the plug and screwing in the handle end. I did a search on ebay and found several 124 H handles that ranged from 17.50 plus tax to 25.00, most were free shipping. I have been putting off getting one because I only paid 14.00 for the set and the same seller had another for 10.00 but the wooden box lacked the Starrett decal.. It didn't appeal to me to buy a new handle for more than the price of the set and get a bright new handle to place in the antique set which I got as a collectible and will rarely use. But I am still looking for an old one. I remember seeing one in a large lot of machinist tools and wondered what it was but at the time I didn't need it. I also need a wrench and another device for this set.  Wayne


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## waynecuefix (Sep 19, 2017)

C-Bag said:


> Interesting about the rollers in your rest. I would have guessed they were skateboard wheels as they are also used for bead roller dies too. During my last wage slave tour making fruit packing equipment they had a bone yard full of bad designs that sat outside. I was told to strip all the rollers off a driven roller conveyor. I got two 5gal buckets of them and they just sat there because we never used that design. I asked the boss for them one day and he said help myself. They are some kind vulcanized rubber on an aluminum hub with a sealed bearing. I use them for everything, and will use them for my version of a steady rest.


That is a great idea. I am not sure if the background template is one inch squares but if it is then these are about 3 inches diameter? And they should have a much heavier weight load than the ones I use, maybe could even be used for turning metal shafts. Making a frame should not be a problem and you can build frames heavy or light depending on what application you have. Send photos and let me see one when you get it done. Wayne


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## C-Bag (Sep 19, 2017)

I think I've been bitten by the machining bug for 5-6yrs too. My brother worked as a machinist for most of his life and I referred to him when I got stuck.

You are a veritable font of knowledge about tools! That Wiki on Brown&Sharpe was facinating. I do small scale manufacturing here in my garage and am a one man show. So I don't often have time research but I do spend a lot of time on eBay periodically. It is really odd what gets mobbed and what gets ignored. So I can't get too attached and like a virtual vulture just have to sit, wait and watch. One of those handles would be useful, but I've not used my set since the late 80's while still a car mech. After I went to packing house equipment it's just sat. Now that I know what I'm looking for I'll add that to my search. If I remember right I paid $15-20 for that old set.

One of my last scores on eBay was a  14" Starrett vernier master height gage. I was also looking for snugs for my DI's and TI too. All the dial and digital height gages were going out of sight but vernier's were just sitting. This one came up with a ton of snugs and doodads and I didn't even notice it had a BestTest in the lot. All for $110+ something like $30 shipping. I had no problem using a vernier(just got to put on my high powered glasses and not until recently somebody in the trade pointed out it was a "master bar" and those things go for over $2,000 new! It has been so used the paint on the base is worn off, but it was well taken care of and works and measures perfectly. No case, but my wife made a cover for it and it is protected.


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## C-Bag (Sep 19, 2017)

Sorry Wayne, I'm just not getting the hang of this forums quote format. The rollers I've got are exactly 2 1/2" in dia. I've given a bunch away to friends and my brother. Used them everything imaginable and still have that drawer full. 

I also have a some 80/20 left over from a great score off of Craigslist. I got a total of 75ft. of 10 series 2"x2" 80/20 plus corner angles, hardware and all kinds of fittings. They had decided to scrap an old DIY CNC router table and it was made out of that 80/20. I've been busily repurposing it and will use it for the frame along with those rollers for my version of your steady rest.


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## waynecuefix (Sep 20, 2017)

C-Bag said:


> I think I've been bitten by the machining bug for 5-6yrs too. My brother worked as a machinist for most of his life and I referred to him when I got stuck.
> 
> You are a veritable font of knowledge about tools! That Wiki on Brown&Sharpe was facinating. I do small scale manufacturing here in my garage and am a one man show. So I don't often have time research but I do spend a lot of time on eBay periodically. It is really odd what gets mobbed and what gets ignored. So I can't get too attached and like a virtual vulture just have to sit, wait and watch. One of those handles would be useful, but I've not used my set since the late 80's while still a car mech. After I went to packing house equipment it's just sat. Now that I know what I'm looking for I'll add that to my search. If I remember right I paid $15-20 for that old set.
> 
> One of my last scores on eBay was a  14" Starrett vernier master height gage. I was also looking for snugs for my DI's and TI too. All the dial and digital height gages were going out of sight but vernier's were just sitting. This one came up with a ton of snugs and doodads and I didn't even notice it had a BestTest in the lot. All for $110+ something like $30 shipping. I had no problem using a vernier(just got to put on my high powered glasses and not until recently somebody in the trade pointed out it was a "master bar" and those things go for over $2,000 new! It has been so used the paint on the base is worn off, but it was well taken care of and works and measures perfectly. No case, but my wife made a cover for it and it is protected.


 
I do a lot of research and have time to do it as I am both retired and disabled. What I can't do physically is compensated by a desire for knowledge. I think that is common for disabled people to help stay active and stave off the depression of the restrictions that disability brings. One aspect of ebay which I find useful in searches is the click the "NEWLY LISTED" button on a search. Often you can get really good deals by catching newly listed items at low prices with buy it now. Some things don't come up on searches because the seller lists it under the wrong category and often I find items by searching using the Bing search engine and the results will show items which are on ebay under some very awkward categories. That's how I found a new Kennedy 2 drawer riser box to place under my Kennedy 8 drawer machinists tool box. Used ones were selling over 100 bucks and new ones could be had for 278-350 bucks. A lady whose husband was changing jobs within his company had two new ones never used and they were both buy it now for 100 bucks apiece. I bought one and advised her she should raise the price of the other and sell it under a different category and it would sell fast. Three weeks later I checked and she still had it under the wrong category and unsold.

That is a nice gauge, and I can tell it was a high priced Starrett item. 200 bucks back in the time when that height gauge was made would be in today's dollars more like 500+ dollars. A lot of expensive older Starret and B&S stuff can be had for a steal today as so many shops have closed as industry is leaving the USA. Hopefully that trend is being reversed because if not this country is in trouble. Got to avoid politics discussions here so that is all I will say on that subject.

A lot of people do not like Vernier measuring devices. Back in my high school years a slide rule was the rage, before digital calculators came out. The slide rule had Vernier readouts which made Vernier reading something I learned at an earlier age. I have some vernier calipers, and vernier depth gauges and have little problem reading them as long as I have my magnifying lamp or a magnifying glass. Vernier calipers are surprisingly accurate and I read somewhere where they are more accurate than dial calipers but I am sure there are plenty of folks who will dispute that. 

Recently I purchased a lot of nachinist's tools which had several items I wanted in the lot. Included in the lot was an item I wasn't that interested in, a Moore and Wright Micro 2000 digital micrometer (British) which was developed in 1974 and sold between 1978 and 1988 then replaced by more advanced technology. But the Micro 2000 was the first digital micrometer ever made and was a leader in the field at that time. They are collectors items today and I have listed it for sale on ebay. After it sat in a box for two months I decided to sell it and I checked it out. Surprisingly it works perfectly or at least according to the manual. Opening the jaws too fast can cause a zero error so you must touch the off switch to re-zero the scale and open the jaws more slowly. The jaws close on their own at a dampened speed like a cushion so it is quite an amazing instrument. I have about sold all my collection of pool cues and it's time to start selling some of the duplicates and unwanted machinists stuff too.


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## waynecuefix (Sep 20, 2017)

C-Bag said:


> Sorry Wayne, I'm just not getting the hang of this forums quote format. The rollers I've got are exactly 2 1/2" in dia. I've given a bunch away to friends and my brother. Used them everything imaginable and still have that drawer full.
> 
> I also have a some 80/20 left over from a great score off of Craigslist. I got a total of 75ft. of 10 series 2"x2" 80/20 plus corner angles, hardware and all kinds of fittings. They had decided to scrap an old DIY CNC router table and it was made out of that 80/20. I've been busily repurposing it and will use it for the frame along with those rollers for my version of your steady rest.



The quotes come up automatically when I click the respond button at the bottom of the post to which I am replying. It supplies a reference which helps in response which is great if you don't have  photographic memory of the text you am responding to. That 80/20 is great stuff. It should make a very rigid frame for roller rests.

I aligned my roller rests at first with a rod centered in the lathe chuck and got them pretty close but the rod was somewhat droopy. I could have done better with a long wood dowel or piece of 1/2 copper pipe. Then I had a brainstorm and bought one of those Chinese bore lights which has the shape of a cartridge so it will fit in a rifle of whatever caliber you choose. I bought the 50 BMG but they sent a 5.56 AR-15 boresight. and the batteries were supposed to be supplied but they weren't and so I ordered batteries. After all that they apologized about the wrong sight and about the batteries but the batteries weren't supposed to be included and etc etc etc.... so much for Chinese stuff on ebay. Anyway I put the bore sight in the lathe but I had to wrap tape around one end (I anticipated this because cartridges are tapered) turning on the laser before chucking. The sighter worked well. For exact roller rest centering I will place a 1"  length of dowel the diameter I want to use and place it in the rollers as a target, and adjust the rollers for center on the dowel face. The chuck is rotated to check for centering and if the laser is off center line the dot will circle/rotate on the target (because I used tape around the sight it is not exact in the chuck). If so it can still be used to center the rollers just by getting the dot to circle a dot marked on the center of the target.  This gets the rest spot on for the work being turned, which in my case is cue shafts or cue butts, and I then mark the frame on each support for the 3 different diameters I will be using most so I can return to those settings without re-sighting. I have sighted the rests at the tailstock end and also the rests at the spindle end (shooting the laser through the spindle bore). There may be some perfectly cylindrical sights that will work without taping and may have a switch on them and these would be better. But this one is cheap costing 5 bucks. I think I will add this to my website, maybe someone else could use it.


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