# How to power my new 10EE?



## purplepicker (Mar 29, 2013)

Hi all,
New member here.  I'm Cecil, live in East Tennessee.  I just recieved as a gift a Monarch 10EE S.N. 38019 built in 1953.  It is now in my shop and ready to be cleaned up,  drained, refilled, lubed and powered up.
Background:
 The Monarch is a base model.. which means that it did not come with thread cutting or taper attachment. It has the original 3 jaw chuck, a bison 4 jaw, what appears to be a 2J collet nose (no drawbar or closer), and a phase II Aloris wedge type size C block with 4 tool holders. Although there is no leadscrew and no gearing to support threading there is a feed rod and the apron and crossfeed auto feeds work fine.  I have operated the machine and there seem to be no issues as to operability.....Yet. 
Now that it is mine I do not intend to operate it until I have thoroughly cleaned and lubricated it.
I have purchased the manual for the machine and now know all the lube points, reservoirs and oil types.  I would guess that the lubricants have not been changed in at least 15 years if not longer. Fortunately it has been used lightly for those last 15 years.
I was pleasantly surprised to find that although it was made in 1953 it is pure reliance Motor-Generator drive....NO TUBES!!!!.
It has a 4.6 hp 3450 rpm 3phase motor wired 240 driving a 2.5 KW 230 volt DC 3450 rpm generator with belt driven 115 volt DC piggy-back exciter 
The generator drives a 3 hp variable speed 230 volt DC main drive motor.
There is a 1/4 hp 240 V 3 phase coolant pump circulating from coolant nozzle to chip tray to sump and back to nozzle.  I will not power this motor up any time soon because the sump is LOADED with a huge wad of rust bonded swarf. The pump might not be usable.
The Main Drive Motor speed is controlled by two linked rheostats. One controlls the generator field current which results in controlling the generator output voltage which is supplied to the main drive motor.  The second rheostat controls the motor field current.  By linking the two rheostats the main drive motor is supplied with high field current for low speed operation and lower field current for higher speed operation. 
Now the questions:
Since I have no 3 phase power I will obviously need to either buy a static converter or a VFD or go directly to 240 volt DC motor control and eliminate the Motor Generator entirely.
It would seem that I would need at least 7 or 8 HP in a static converter due to 33% loss and hard start.  Or I could probably get by with a 4 or 5 hp VFD since it could spin the 3 phase motor up slowly and avoid the hard start.
The other option of maybe 4 hp DC motor controller is a little more hazy due to the way the reliance drive controls both Armature voltage and field voltage for maximum torque at speed.
Any ideas or recommendations from those who have been there and done it... or just have an opinion.
Thanks,
Cecil


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## DMS (Mar 29, 2013)

Wow, that's a heck of a gift 

I have a VFD on my milling machine, and am very happy with it, though getting it tuned took me a little effort. It's a Hitachi WJ200. VFDs are nice because you have a lot of control over startup, braking, etc. Another option is a rotary converter (RPC). I don't have much experience with either, but I know there are others here that do, and I'm sure they'll chime in. 

If it were me, I would avoid modifying the existing electronics if possible; these machines were really well designed. In other words, don't mess with perfection


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## purplepicker (Mar 29, 2013)

Thanks for the reply DMS.  The machine was in a business which is closing soon due to the death of one of the owners.  My wife is a good friend of the widow who is still temporarily running the shop.  My wife has been helping with the administrative stuff and running errands and I have helped out a little running errands and doing some light machining.  I mentioned that the monarch was so much faster than my old 16 inch Cisco on repetitive operations because I don't have any kind of brake on the Cisco (overhead drive with huge cone pulleys and 1 1/2 hp single phase motor.  I spent almost as much time waiting for the lathe to slow down as I did machining.  I bragged on the Monarch so much that she decided that since my wife and I would not accept anything for our help  I would have to take the Monarch.  It was a nightmare making room in my shop (gave away a Hammond surface grinder to make room) and picking up and installing the Monarch.  I used up 2 long days and a lifetime of brownie points with 3 friends getting the moves done.

I would really like to not touch the DC Drive motor and backgear.  That leaves static converter, rotary converter, VFD, and DC motor control after bypassing the MG set.  Of course most of the Bells and whistles of the VFD would be wasted since I would pretty much set it up for a soft start at 60 Hz and leave it there till I turned off the lathe.  Keeping in mind of course that I would have to bypass all the Start/Stop, overloads, and any other portion of the 10ee MG motor that could unload it from the VFD.  The basic simplicity of the static converter and the VFD make them the front runners at this time.  I'm still looking at prices.  I probably have a couple of weeks of cleanup before I would power it back up because I don't want to do any more damage than might have already been done by not providing proper PM.
Cecil

Cecil


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## Nightshift (Mar 31, 2013)

Cecil, that's a nice gift indeed. I have a '52 EE and have a DC motor controller powering the 3hp Reliance DC motor directly. I put all my controls in a custom built panel mounted just over and behind the headstock on a slight angle towards me. It's really nice having everything handy. My original motor-generator-excitor is not being used, but I saved everything in the event I ever wanted to return it to original setup. My DC controller sits down under the lathe pan where the M-G unit used to be. My DC controller is custom built and provides me with both low armature and high field controls. Finding a good used DC controller that is designed for both might be a bit of a challenge, but you definately want both speed ranges. I'm attaching a pic of my control panel so you can get an idea of my setup. You are gonna love the 10EE ... it is a dream to run.

I am very familiar with VFDs as well, since I have at least 6 of them running other 3-phase equipment in my shop ... Bridgeport mill, Southbend lathe, Boyer-Schultz surface grinder, Baldor tool & cutter grinder and a couple vertical belt grinders. VFDs are my first choice as I much prefer to maintain the original 3-phase motor rather than swap it out for a single phase version. I find 3-phase power is much smoother with more torque and the VFD gives you speed control, e-stop, reverse, etc. However for DC motors like the 10EE (and my drill press), a properly sized DC controller does the same thing and in the case of the 10EE, allows you to eliminate a lot of hydro-sucking motors and generators just to make DC power for the DC motor. Fyi for what it's worth. Cheers, Bill


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## purplepicker (Mar 31, 2013)

Bill,
Thanks for the input.  Your machine is beautiful. Mine could use a paint job but I putting that way down in the critical path.  I am very interested in your DC controller.   I am pretty handy at electronics, BS degree and 50 years or so of building my own stuff.  I thought about using a fractional hp scr control for the field since I have a couple laying around and building a control for the armature or trying to modify an existing 180 volt controller to get closer to the 230 volts needed for the beast.  I think the 180 volt spec on most controllers is not the top end because most of the DC controllers I have (Minarik's) will overspeed a motor above its spec speed.  I am just not sure how much above spec I can make one go.  Obviously the 220 to 240 single phase at full wave rectification will provide more than the 230 needed for the motor.
I ordered the manual for this machine from Monarch and find that most of the info is pretty general except for the wiring diagrams which are spot on. 

I have converted a Millrite and a couple of lathes to CNC and due to the lack of threading and taper on my 10ee I will eventually add a servo on the the crosslide (easy) and also one on the saddle (ballscrew where the leadscrew would have been, not easy but doable).  An all electronic Motor control makes CNC even more attractive.

I would really like to drain, flush and refill all the oil reservoirs as suggested by the manual but don't see any obvious drains.  Maybe I'm supposed to siphon the old stuff out?

Any chance of more detail on your controller and a clue as to how to empty the oil tanks?
Thanks again for the input.
Cecil


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## Nightshift (Mar 31, 2013)

Cecil, sorry I can't give you much info on my DC controller since I didn't build it. I'm the 3rd owner and the previous owner of my 10EE had an electrical engineer build it for him 30 years ago when he first acquired the lathe from the original owner. He had no 3 phase power (same as me) and this was his solution to make it go. Luckily he saved all the original parts and passed them along to me when I bought it from him. All the wiring was oil-soaked and not in conduit, so the first thing I did was to re-wire everything between his hi voltage and lo voltage modules and the small control panel the engineer had originally built for him. He wasn't using the main contactor on the back or the start/stop buttons on the lower front housing, so when I rewired it, I put these back in service with new Allen Bradley contactor and switches. I then started to design a much larger panel to add control switches and lamps. The 2nd owner told me the DC controller was designed for full power to the motor at 220v which was as close as he could get to 230v. It operates very well with a smooth speed range both thru low armature and hi field.

When I first got my 10EE, I tore it completely apart to inspect everything. I'm one of very few people who can show you pictures of what the bottom of a 10EE base casting looks like  This base casting weighs in around  1,500 lbs! Turns out, other than the rewiring, all it needed was a few oil seals to stop oil leaking from the front gearbox shafts. There are a few places where there are drains for the oil reservoirs. Remove the left end covers to start and here's a list of them:

1. the back gear attached to the DC motor. Fill on the top, drain on the bottom and a sight glass for the proper level (didn't add a pic)
2. the lower gear case is filled thru a large 1" dia bronze cup with screw top, has 2 drains (1/4" pipe x 4" long with caps) below this fill cup, and a sight glass to the right of the Feed/Thread lever. I put 90 degree street elbows on mine to help control the drain flow, but yours will just have caps on the ends of the pipes
3. rear headstock bearing cavity is filled thru the little port left of the tach and has a sight glass directly below it. To drain, you have to remove the sight glass
4. front headstock bearing cavity ... same as the rear
5. main headstock reservoir is filled thru the hole on the very top (remove the chrome plug), has a sight glass below the right edge of the tach, and is drained thru the 1/4" x 4" pipe a few inches under the spindle lock
6. carriage is filled thru the right angle git cup on the top front of the apron, has a sight glass below and left of it, and drained thru the plug hole on the lower left edge of the apron (I added a 90 degree elbow to mine)

I've marked up a few pics to help point these out. Sorry for the crappy quality. Hope this helps. Cheers, Bill


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## purplepicker (Apr 2, 2013)

Bill, 
Thanks so much for the lube drain info.  I guess if I had spent a little more time under the covers I should have found them.  I tried to get the site glass loose but after removing the 3 screws I could not get the glass and ring to come out.  I tried sticking a rod into one of the screw holes (not all the way to the threads) and prying and I tried to get a xacto blade under the edge but no luck.  I think either the gasket has varnished itself to both surfaces or the ring has been "painted in" or both.  I think I'll make a slight hook on the end of the rod and see if I can get a purchase on the under side of the ring through the hole.  I've got all the rest of the tanks drained and refilled.  I'm using Mobile Velocite light or medium as called for in the manual except for the apron and tailstock where I'm using vactra.  These may not be the best choices but they are what I have until I can line up a bucket of what you are using.

I picked up a 7.5 hp 240 3ph Reliance motor today for $40 and ordered a preassembled RPC panel for $160 including shipping.  I could have built the RPC cheaper from scatch but I decided that I wanted to go ahead and get it running.  After all the total sunk cost so far is $200 for the RPC panel and idler and  4 lunches for my friends who helped me move it.  I might have owed them a lunch anyway.  

Everything I have read in the forums and on the various RPC vendors sites says that a 7.5 RPC should handle the 4.6 hp MG set starting under no load just fine.  I can't really imagine ever loading this beast down to its full potential.   I've got an ancient 1 inch Cisco with overhead drive cone pulleys powered by a single phase GE tri-clad 1.5 hp motor and I can count on my two hands the number of times I have stalled it in the last 30 years.

Two issues:  The backgear pulley end oil seal leaks.  The oil drips down onto the inside of the pulley and gets slung all throughout the compartment.   In your rebuild did you have to replace this seal and if so was it a stock bearing supplier item or did you have to get it from Monarch.
Someone has tightened the apron feed handwheel clutch so tight that I can't get it loose.  I'll have to put a strap wrench or something similar on it but I don't want to force anything til I'm sure which way to turn to loosen.  I would assume counterclockwise to loosen but would feel much better if you could confirm that.
Thanks again for the help and the pictures,
Cecil


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## Nightshift (Apr 2, 2013)

Cecil, I'll try to cover your Q's off here ...

- those sight glasses are hard sometimes to get off, especially if they've been on there for the past 60 years! The key is to twist (rotate) the outer aluminum ring to break the seal. If not mistaken, I generally just find a small allen cap screw that is slightly larger than the holes in that ring, and "tap" a couple of them into 2 of the 3 holes. Then take a screw driver or pry bar and use the protruding bolts to rotate the ring just enough to break the seal. Then you can easily pop them out, and dig out the glass, screen and seals from behind it. I made up new gaskets before I replaced all mine as I hate seeing a 10EE drip like my old Harley 

- your 7.5 hp RPC will be perfect to start the lathe. I've always been gonna built one, and actually have the motor, box, contactors, etc to build one, but I've just never done it. All I would need to buy are the capacitors. I guess its because I have too much of my equipment already up and running great on dedicated VFDs. And there isn't really another piece of equipment I actually need to buy for my shop, so my head keeps saying why bother building an RPC at this point.

- my backgear really doesn't leak, at least not much. There is some seepage over the past 60 years, but certainly not enough to fling oil around, so all I did was change the oil in the gearbox. But in terms of bearings, your local supplier will definately be able to provide replacement bearings. Just get the old one out so you can measure it, or see the numbers on it, and any bearing house will be able to hand you a replacement. This is also true for any other bearing or oil (lip) seals that you might need. My bearing supplier didn't have the right size lip seals I needed, but had them for me within 2 days from their supplier.

- I'm not clear on your issue with the apron feed. You say handwheel clutch so I'm assuming from that you are not talking about the lever operated autofeed clutch. I guess it can't be that as your not under power yet. On the front of the apron handwheel there is a knurled knob to pushes in/out to engage/disengage the handwheel. When I had the carriage off, I can't recall what the clutch looks like for that handwheel. I'll take a look in the manual and see if that refreshes the memory.

Cheers, Bill


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## purplepicker (Apr 3, 2013)

Bill,
Thanks for the tip on the sight glass.  I tried prying but not twisting.  I even ran a #10 tap into the ring just far enough to catch and tried pulling but to no avail.  I'll try the twist.
The reason I need the sight glasses out is that some of them are so dirty that its hard to see the level.  Which brings us to the back gear oil seal.  The sight glass is really clouded over and when I was putting in the oil I couldn't see the level.  There's no way to get a dip stick from the fill hole to the sump so I was just guessing how much it would hold.  I guessed wrong!!  I realized my error  when the oil started dripping out around the shaft.  Upon looking at the parts diagram I see that there is no seal, just a slinger.  I had put in way too much oil.  After I let the oil overflow into a bucket overnight I pulled the drain plug and dumped the remaining oil into a container.  I put about two thirds of that back into the fill hole and with a flashlight on the sight glass I determined that that was about right.  I am guessing that the previous users probably overfilled the back gear as well except they proceeded to run it with the drip.  
The apron feed wheel I'm talking about is the big seven or eight inch wheel used to move the apron manually.  It has the knurled knob in the center and I can see the clutch teeth which would disengage if I could make the wheel pull away from the apron.  Problem is that the knurled knob does no move... left or right or in or out.  It  has some scuffing on the knurling as if someone applied a pair of channel locks or something similar.  I didn't know whether it disengaged the wheel by turning or pushing or pulling because it doesn't seem to respond to any of those.  If it is supposed to pull out I will look more closely into that.
The belts on this machine are 1/2 inch wide A or 4L size.  The main drive belts are gates 6886  which is a 4L 86 inch outside circumference and the exciter belt is a gates 2290 which is a 4L 29 inch.
the exciter belt is shot and looks like it came on the machine.   The spindle drive belts are usable but I want to replace them.  I am a little surprised that the Main drive belts are 4L  or 1/2 inch. I would have thought that they would have been bigger.  Do you recall if the main drive belts on yours are 1/2 inch wide?

Thanks again, you have been a huge help. I hope someday I can be as helpful to someone else.


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## Nightshift (Apr 3, 2013)

Hi Ross. I think it would be worth your time to remove all the sight glasses and give them a good cleaning. Not only so you can actually (easily) see the levels in all the reservoirs, but more importantly, you will know those cavities have been fully drained, cleaned and properly filled ... and that's most likely the 1st time that's happened to your 10EE in the past 60 years! I could see the oil levels in all my sight glasses, but I still went thru this exercize as I wanted to know everything was done right.

Ok, on to your next questions.

- on the apron handwheel clutch, to engage/disengage the clutch, that knurled knob on the outer end of the shaft is a simple push/pull. The shaft under the knob is probably caked with 60 years of gunk which has solidified and preventing the knob from sliding on the shaft. On the outside end of the knob is the retaining bolt (it has 2 small holes in it). Just take c-clip pliers to stick in those holes and unscrew the bolt. Then you can pull the knurled knob off and clean everything up.

- yes the spindle belts are 1/2".

Cheers, Bill


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## purplepicker (Apr 3, 2013)

Thanks again Bill.  Your help has been invaluable.  As soon as I figured out how it worked (with a little help from you) the problem was apparent.  The knob would NOT move.  So I pried off the circular spring that holds the bullet into the detent.  As soon as I got the pressure off the bullet the knob pulled right out.  Apparently the bullet and the detent  were no longer smooth.  They both had burrs which were catching when I tried to move the knob.  I cleaned everything up as you suggested and polished the bullet an the detent hole.  It is still a little stiff so I might make a spring ring that is a little weaker. 
 I'll try to twist the sight glass rings out.  I'd sure like to know how much oil is in there!!!
I think I have run out of questions for a few days so you can relax, but "I'll be BAAAAACK"  

I don't know who Ross is... I'm Cecil.... but you just call me anything you want as long as you keep getting me out of jams.
Thanks again,
Cecil


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## Nightshift (Apr 3, 2013)

purplepicker said:


> ...(snip)...I don't know who Ross is... I'm Cecil.... but you just call me anything you want as long as you keep getting me out of jams.
> Thanks again,
> Cecil


Oh. I'm bad Cecil. Had a little brain fart. I must have had Ross on my mind when I was responding to your note, as he was coming over to my shop today. :shrugs:

Cheers, Bill


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## Cal Haines (Apr 6, 2013)

Cecil,

I'm glad to see that you decided the go the RPC route and keep the motor/generator drive.  The fact that so many of these drive are still in service after 70+ years of service is a  testament to how solid and robust they are.  It hate it when guys who don't understand things electrical think they are "upgrading" one of these old workhorses by ripping out the DC drive and putting in an AC motor and VFD.  With a great deal of work you may be able to equal the performance of the original drive with modern DC controls, but you won't improve on it.  10EEs have a lofty reputation for a reason and the performance of their drives is a big part.

The best way to go on the sight glasses is to make a pin spanner with 3 pins to twist them free.  I recommend using BUNA rubber O-rings instead of cork gaskets when you put them back, that way you can pop them out as needed.

I always suggest flushing the headstock and gearboxes with kerosene and refilling.  Only use fresh kerosene in the spindle bearing reservoirs and don't let it set in there since that may result in leaks into the center reservoir in the future.  After I get the nasty stuff flushed out of the headstock and gearbox I recycle the kerosene by running it through an inline fuel filter.  Get a transfer pump so that you can spray the inside of the headstock and get into all the nooks and crannies.

If your headstock has an overflow tube, disconnect it and flush it out with brake parts cleaner.

I think you said you were using Vactra in the apron and tailstock, if it's Vactra #2 way oil, that's the right stuff.  I'm not familiar with the oils that you are using in the headstock and gearbox; if they are machine tool gear oils of the right viscosity, that's great.  You should not use hydraulic oil since it's designed to work with a filter and doesn't have the same sorts of oxidation resistant and anti-foaming additives that a gear oil has.

You should plan on pulling the saddle and apron, cleaning and lubricating things.  The saddle's pumped lubrication system is the Achilles heel of a 10EE.  You want to make sure everything is working.  The housing for the feed-rod worm gear is prone to collect swarf and can't be cleaned without removing the apron.  The cross-feed screw and the compound don't have any provision for lubricating the screws, so you need to pull them apart from time to time, clean and lube.  A lathe is like a fine firearm, it needs to be field stripped and cleaned periodically to keep it in tip-top shape.

_Cal_


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## purplepicker (Apr 6, 2013)

Thanks for the input Cal.  As it turns out the RPC in my case is also the most economical of the solutions as well as being the most noninvasive I was able to get a fairly modern Reliance dual voltage 7.5 HP motor for $40.  I went ahead and blew $160 including shipping for the prewired selfstarting RPC panel.  I could have built it for a little less but I figured my time was better directed toward the Lathe as opposed to building a pretty panel.    I have had several similar suggestions on the sight glasses but they were all temporary in nature.   I like the idea of making a simple spanner and keeping it in a dedicated tool box along with a few other dedicated tools which I can't help thinking will accumulate. 

I was not aware of the apron oil system's vulnerability and quite honestly had not planned on pulling the apron.  Oh well, now that I know better I guess I'll add that to my list.  
remember I have no lead screw but do have a feed rod.  Is there any possibility of sliding the apron off the right end over the feed rod left in place...probably not.  Which means I have to pull the outboard bearing block and get the feed rod out of it's gear box and drop the feed rod with the apron.   Are there any caveats you might want to give me about this procedure  so that I don't have to look back on this experience with shame and sadness?

Velocite is Mobil's brand name for one of their spindle oils.  It comes in light and heavy.  Containers very similar to Vactra ... must read labels carefully!...Must not confuse!!!

My Main drive belts are serviceable but squeek badly and I will replace.  I've already removed them to be sure the squeek was the belts and no a bearing.  After sliding the idler rollers back I  loosened the Motor mount nuts and pried the motor up just enough to get enough slack to get the belts off.   Hope that was the correct procedure.  I'm not so confident about how to get the exciter drive belt off.  It looks like I might need to loosen the belt by backing off the exciter mounting and then removing the pulley set screws and pull both the generator and exciter pulleys off the shafts.  This seems like a lot of work to change a belt but it might explain why the belt thats on there looks like it was born on the lathe in 1953.  I think it is a credit to Gates (no not Bill) that that belt is still functioning at all.
Please tell me there is a better way to change the exciter belt

Thanks again to you Cal and to Bill who have saved me many hours of shameful and sad reflections.
Cecil


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## Cal Haines (Apr 7, 2013)

purplepicker said:


> ...
> I was not aware of the apron oil system's vulnerability and quite honestly had not planned on pulling the apron.  Oh well, now that I know better I guess I'll add that to my list.
> remember I have no lead screw but do have a feed rod.  Is there any possibility of sliding the apron off the right end over the feed rod left in place...probably not.  Which means I have to pull the outboard bearing block and get the feed rod out of it's gear box and drop the feed rod with the apron.   Are there any caveats you might want to give me about this procedure  so that I don't have to look back on this experience with shame and sadness?
> ...


Cecil

Pulling the apron isn't a big deal on your machine.  The right bearing block should unbolt and just slide off the end of the feed-rod.  If you go through the photos in this album, in order and read the descriptions (media info) you will see the steps involved.  Ignore the stuff that doesn't apply to your machine.http://s163.photobucket.com/user/cal10ee/library/10EE/DaveE907​If you don't have the feed rod clutch the feed rod is pinned to the output shaft just like the leadscrew of the machine in the photos.  See the note about identifying the end of the taper pin.

I like to block up the apron on a 2x6 across the chip pan and lift the saddle off of the apron.  You can also use longer bolts to lower the apron onto the blocks and then carry it away.

I recommend removing the compound and cross-slide before trying to remove the saddle.  This makes the saddle light enough that one guy can lift it without hurting himself.  The photos and descriptions in this album walk you through disassembling the cross-slide:http://s163.photobucket.com/user/cal10ee/library/10EE/square-dial​On your machine you can get the cross slide off by just running the screw to the end and sliding the cross-slide off the back of the machine.  If you take it off the front you need to deal with the little setscrew that limits the travel of the dust plate.  Make sure your dust plate goes back in the right way; the one in the photos was in backwards.

The compound has a pin in the bottom which is a close fit into the hole in the top of the cross-slide.  Remove the compound by backing off the two clamp nuts and levering up on opposite sides of the compound to lift the boss out of the hole.  Take your time, it's easy to get it crooked and jam it good if you're not careful.  Disassembly of the compound is straight forward.  Let me know if you run in to problems.

_Cal_


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## purplepicker (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks for the words and pictures Cal.  I've got a friend lined up for this weekend to help me take the apron off.  I think 4 hands as well as some well placed blocking will reduce the possibility of dropping something.  I took the apron off my old 15 inch Cisco years ago and found that it was very touch and go with only 2 hands and half a brain.

I've already torn down, cleaned and reassembled the cross slide and compound.  I don't have a taper so that's one less thing to clean.

Got my WNY 7.5 RPC panel today.  Ran conduit, pulled wire and hooked up the idler.  Started up the idler just fine and voltage balance looks great.  Just a little high on the generated phase but I think it comes down when I load the lathe.  Won't be spinning up the lathe til I get the new belts I ordered... maybe by the weekend..

I still haven't figured out how to change the exciter belt without pulling both pulleys with the old belt still on (or just cutting it off) and then re-mounting the pullleys with the new belt in place.

Thanks again,
Cecil


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## Cal Haines (Apr 11, 2013)

purplepicker said:


> ...
> 
> I still haven't figured out how to change the exciter belt without pulling both pulleys with the old belt still on (or just cutting it off) and then re-mounting the pullleys with the new belt in place.


I haven't had to deal with this myself and I don't know of any other way to do it.  It looks like you use shims between the exciter and the case of the MG to adjust the belt tension on this model, if needed.  Let me know how it comes out.

_Cal_


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## purplepicker (Apr 14, 2013)

Thanks to all for helping me through the birth pangs of my new old 10ee. 

I guess it's time to close out this thread since the initial question was how to best power it.  

In summation I ordered the WNY 7.5 hp RPC prewired panel which came quickly and in fine condition.  I bought the panel through the Ebay store because the cost after shipping (ebay store free shipping) was a little less.
I purchased locally a 7.5 hp dual voltage motor wired 240.  had to help wrestle it out of a pile of motors in  a barn but it was worth it.  
I had already run a #10 30 amp circuit in conduit for a welding  outlet to a location near where the lathe was to live so the wiring was trivial.  I mounted the panel on the wall and dropped #10 SO cable to the idler and to the  lathe with enough slack to allow me to move the lathe away from the wall to access the rear panel.

I pushed the start button on the RPC, spinning up the slave then pushed the "MG start" button on the lathe, turned the speed control all the way ccw, moved the "Go lever" to forward, cranked up the speed and watched it go!!!!
I chucked up a chunk of 12L14 and made some swarf....... WOW, that's nice!!!

I bought 3 heavy equipment skates from Northern Tool to leave under the lathe so that I can back out the leveling bolts dropping the machine onto the skates for sliding out from the wall then turn the leveling bolts back down to the floor when using the lathe.
So far, the equipment skates have been my largest expense.
The panel was $160, the motor $40, the cable and conduit fittings about $25, three new belts about $50 and equipment skates about $175.  The lathe was a gift so my wife says so far my "free lathe" is up to about $500....   That's almost as much as a brand new 7 X 10 with some tooling.

Thanks again especially to Bill and Cal for all your help.  I will be starting a new thread  with questions on the Electrical controls unless I find the answers in the archives.
Cecil


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## Nightshift (Apr 14, 2013)

Cecil, I know the feeling you had when you first powered your 10EE and it worked! I get that same feeling everytime I lug a new toy home and power it for the first time. Having 3 phase power in your shop opens up a whole new world of (often) inexpensive north american industrial equipment to search for and add to your shop. As you know, 3 phase motors (and DC motors) are soooo much better than their sigle phase cousins. Its no wonder hobbyists in droves are migrating to them now. You're gonna really enjoy your new 10EE ... the more I use mine, the more I love it too. I have 2 old Southbends that have barely been started up since my 10EE arrived and I'm thinking I should pass these along to someone who doesn't have a lathe since I will rarely ever use them again. Then I'll have some floorspace for yet another toy to drag home 

Cheers, Bill


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## purplepicker (Apr 19, 2013)

Here it is ..... up and running.  There is a tendency for the MG contactor to fail to seal in occasionally.  I am going to try cleaning the seal in contacts and possibly switching the phase that holds the contactor.  It runs just fine otherwise...   Note the tee shirt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ftcO9Sn_ZY

Thanks to all again for the help.

Cecil


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## purplepicker (Apr 20, 2013)

I got the contactor seal in problem fixed.

I had the RPC connected to the lathe with the generated phase connected to the M coil.  When the MG set start button was pressed the inrush to the motor was pulling the generated phase down enough to keep the contactor from sealing in every time.  If I hit the start button two or three times it would seal in because the motor was no longer at locked rotor and the inrush was reduced.

I rotated the phase connections from the RPC so that the contactor is now picked up and held by the non generated phases and it works like a champ.  

If you have this problem please note that after you change the phase connections to get the coil between the non-generated phases you must be sure that you didn't inadvertently reverse the rotation direction of the motor generator.  If you did you will have to exchange two more wires without negating the first fix.

I probably wouldn't have had this problem if I had used a 10 hp idler but I am happy with the operation as it is now.

Cecil


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## Nightshift (Apr 20, 2013)

purplepicker said:


> I got the contactor seal in problem fixed.
> 
> I had the RPC connected to the lathe with the generated phase connected to the M coil.  When the MG set start button was pressed the inrush to the motor was pulling the generated phase down enough to keep the contactor from sealing in every time.  If I hit the start button two or three times it would seal in because the motor was no longer at locked rotor and the inrush was reduced.
> 
> ...


Nice work Cecil. Love your new 10EE ... and your shirt  Now make lotsa chips! Cheers, Bill


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