# First Turning, Clausing 6316 Lathe



## Joe Pitz (Jun 30, 2015)

Hello All,  Just got my collets from LMS,  just had to try the new lathe out.
I stuck the level on the lathe and it is close, but I have to spend some time doing a more complete leveling.

I was able to take a fairly smooth face off cut,  I am using 3/8" indexable carbide tooling.

But when I placed the RH turning tool in and tried to take a few turing cuts, the outcome was not so pretty.

I am turning about 900 RPM,  I tried manual feeding and very slow machine feeding cuts were still about the same.

I am attempting to turn .750 aluminum.  I had the stock out of the collet just over 1",  which is, ok by the rule of thumb of 1.5 tines the diameter.

Here is a pic of the surface of the stock,  cutting left lots of ridges,  I was taking no more than .010" of a cut.

Any feedback would be welcome.


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## hvontres (Jun 30, 2015)

The first thing I would double check it the center height of the tool. Face off the end, and make sure there is no little pip left. Then take the RH tool and line it up on Center.

Another thing to check would be to make sure the gibs  on the cross slide are tight.

If those check out, you might try a slightly deeper cut. Carbide tools actually work best with about 15-20 thou depth of cut.


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## Joe Pitz (Jun 30, 2015)

I adjusted the gibs last night,  I will check the center height and try a deeper cut.

Joe


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## francist (Jun 30, 2015)

Not sure if it's just a bit of crud or something but if you zoom in real close it looks like the cutting corner of your insert has a crack in it. (There's also one corner chipped ff, but that's not the one I'm looking at.) that never helps matters.

-frank


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## Joe Pitz (Jun 30, 2015)

Thanks Frank, I had just rotated the insert,  but I will check it again,  yes the one to the left is cracked.

I guess I have to learn how the grind HSS tool steel,  Looks like I will be watching some tubalcain videos.

Thanks

Joe


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## kwoodhands (Jun 30, 2015)

Joe Pitz said:


> Hello All,  Just got my collets from LMS,  just had to try the new lathe out.
> I stuck the level on the lathe and it is close, but I have to spend some time doing a more complete leveling.
> 
> I was able to take a fairly smooth face off cut,  I am using 3/8" indexable carbide tooling.
> ...


Other than the centerline being off your tooling may need a bit of rounding over.I use HSS on every metal, never used carbide tooling myself. I understand that carbide tooling requires a faster speed.Look carefully at your insert,the corners should be rounded over about 1/32" ,if not round them over with a diamond hone.Place a 6" rule against the round in the chuck and run the cutter up to it.The rule will be plumb when the centerline is correct.If the top of the rule lays away from you the tool post is too high.If the top of the rule lies toward you the toolpost is low.
When you get the toolpost height correct, maybe a new insert or HSS tooling if you have it. The finish should be very good.Remember a sharp point on the insert will absolutely give you a lousy finish.Like I mentioned above radius the corner 1/32".Some aluminum is gummy and will not provide a great finish,but not like your pics show. 6061 aluminum is what most guys use at home.
mike


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## JimDawson (Jul 1, 2015)

Try dropping the tool BELOW center a bit.


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## coolidge (Jul 1, 2015)

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## Joe Pitz (Jul 1, 2015)

coolidge,  interesting shaped insert, what tool holder do these work with,  What supplier do you use?
Thanks

Joe


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## Joe Pitz (Jul 1, 2015)

Thanks kwoodhands and JimDawson, I will try your recommendations.

Joe


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## chips&more (Jul 1, 2015)

First, are you running the spindle in the correct direction? It looks like the tool bit/carbide insert is rubbing more than it is cutting. The finish is extremely uneven and burnished looking. If correct spindle direction, I would try a different cutter/tool bit, preferably a HSS one and put it on center. And I suppose that something about the carriage could be loose and causing your problem. And lastly machine harmonics, but the poor finish you have does not match that problem…Good Luck, Dave.


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## coolidge (Jul 1, 2015)

Joe Pitz said:


> coolidge,  interesting shaped insert, what tool holder do these work with,  What supplier do you use?
> Thanks
> 
> Joe



Those are inserts for a 45 degree face mill, Iscar SEHT 43AFNP aka SEHT 1204AFNP the carbide grade is IC20.

For turning on my 12x36 lathe I have been using Korloy ccgt21.51 inserts. I purchased the Glanze 1/2 inch turning tool kit from Grizzly $149, a number of boring bars also take these inserts. http://www.grizzly.com/products/Glanze-Turning-Tool-Set-1-2/H5681


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## Joe Pitz (Jul 1, 2015)

Thanks coolidge, nice looking set.

Joe


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## Joe Pitz (Jul 1, 2015)

Dave,  just to verify, when I run the lathe in the forward direction, looking from the tailstock to the chuck, the chuck is turning in the counter-clockwise direction.  I have varied my tool height and changed to other carbide tools and the pattern is the same.  I do not have any HSS tooling at the moment.

Thanks

Joe


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## coolidge (Jul 1, 2015)

Try slowing your spindle speed way down, try 200 rpm or below I turn aluminum this slow no problem. Looking at the picture, to me something appears to be loose. Tool, tool post, cross slide, carriage, spindle, chuck, gunk under your insert, you want things as rigid as possible.


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## hvontres (Jul 1, 2015)

Joe, 
A couple of other things you might want to check on:
1) Are the gibs on your compound slide tight?
2) Is the compound itself tight
3) what angle is the compound set at?

The pattern you are getting looks like the tool is either getting pushed back towards you or deflected downward by the cutting forces.


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## John Hasler (Jul 1, 2015)

Joe Pitz said:


> Dave,  just to verify, when I run the lathe in the forward direction, looking from the tailstock to the chuck, the chuck is turning in the counter-clockwise direction.  I have varied my tool height and changed to other carbide tools and the pattern is the same.  I do not have any HSS tooling at the moment.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Joe


Sure looks like something isn't rigid.  WHat happens when you take a deeper cut?  How are your spindle bearings?


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## JR49 (Jul 1, 2015)

Joe, I think this is a very good thread that many new guys can relate to. Your example looks pretty extreme, so when you find the cause, it will poroably help many others (myself included). My first thought was that your feed rate was too fast, but magnifying your pic showed that the grooves and ridges were straight across the work, whereas, feeding too fast would cause the grooves to be slanted like a fine thread. Jim Dawson said, "Try dropping the tool BELOW center a bit.", now Jim definitety knows his stuff, but I wish he would have explained the reason for his recomendation (how about it Jim?). OK, I'm going out on a limb here, and give my newbe opinion. If your tool doesn't have enough front clearence, maybe it is rubbing (causing the high spots, or ridges) and then at times the cutting edge grabs and cuts (causing the groves, or low spots). If this is indeed whats going on, then lowering the tool, as Jim suggested, would probably solve the problem. If thats not it, them as Chips&More said, "something must be loose", causing the tool to bounce making the tiny grooves and ridges, However, as I said before "what the h--- do I know". The main reason for my post is to challange the "pros" here to find an answer for you and all of us!! Waiting for answers, JR49

EDIT,  wow , that shows you just how slow I type! Coolidge, Henry, and John,  all have great answers. PLEASE be sure and tell us What works. Thanks JR49


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## Joe Pitz (Jul 1, 2015)

Thanks JR49,

This Afternoon when I get off of work I will run a dial indicator on a piece of drill rod in the chuck.  I adjusted the gibs the other night but I will check again
When I purchased the lathe the owner turned a piece of steel between the chuck and tail stock and the cut was very smooth.  I have the same problem with aluminum on my mini lathe, so I am guessing it could be the index and tool holder,  I will clean it up and try again.  

Thanks

Joe


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## Kernbigo (Jul 1, 2015)

sound like spindle bearings  are loose


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## francist (Jul 1, 2015)

Joe Pitz said:


> Thanks JR49,
> 
> 
> When I purchased the lathe the owner turned a piece of steel between the chuck and tail stock and the cut was very smooth.  I have the same problem with aluminum on my mini lathe, so I am guessing it could be the index and tool holder,  I will clean it up and try again.
> ...



Same problem on two different lathes seems awfully coincidental. You said it's aluminum but not what type. I assumed it was 6061, but is it something else? They don't all turn the same.

-frank


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## JimDawson (Jul 1, 2015)

Joe Pitz said:


> Dave,  just to verify, when I run the lathe in the forward direction, looking from the tailstock to the chuck, the chuck is turning in the counter-clockwise direction.  I have varied my tool height and changed to other carbide tools and the pattern is the same.  I do not have any HSS tooling at the moment.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Joe




Counter clockwise is correct.  It really looks like the tool is rubbing, not cutting.  Also try slowing the feed way down, maybe start a 0.001 or so per revolution.


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## Joe Pitz (Jul 1, 2015)

Ok everyone I found it,  Stuck a dial indicator against a center drill in the collet,  runout was .0005.  That was not it.
Went and checked the cross slide gibs and the compound gibs, that was not it.  But since this is a new lathe to me and the saddle is much heavier than my mini lathe, I did not notice the saddle movement,  So by pulling up and down on the cross slide I got .008" up and down play.  So by playing around with which bolts tighten the saddle plates I was able to remove the up/down play in the saddle.

Enclosed is a pic of the cut after tightening the saddle.

This was manual feed.

Thanks everyone for the great input,  helping this newbie out.

The radius on the insert is 1/64"  I am going to purchase 1/32" from now on.

Joe


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## Joe Pitz (Jul 1, 2015)

francist,  I now purchase my metal from a local metal yard that sells by the pound,  but this piece was picked up at Home Depot, so not sure what type of aluminum this is.

Thanks

Joe


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