# 220V Miller Machine, Dedicated for Spool Gun



## erikmannie (May 28, 2021)

I will probably be buying a wire feed welder in September that will be dedicated for a spool gun.

I prefer 220V Miller machines. I am considering a Millermatic 252 or Millermatic 255. I am just starting to look at it, but I think one choice for a gun is a 30A. I understand that I will want to use 100% Argon.

I have to save for many months, & I have never used a spool gun. The mechanic at work tried an Eastman machine + a HF spool gun, & he was unable to make any good welds. He gave up.

So does anybody have anything to say about spool guns?


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## NCjeeper (May 28, 2021)

Is this for aluminum welding?


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## markba633csi (May 28, 2021)

My friend had a Miller 185 and a Miller spool gun and he liked them
The HF gun you mentioned is probably lame


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## twraska (May 28, 2021)

Miller spool gun on a 251 and later on a 350p has worked well for us on aluminum.   Secret to welding aluminum, if you don’t already know, is to get it CLEAN.  Then clean it some more.


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## erikmannie (May 29, 2021)

NCjeeper said:


> Is this for aluminum welding?



Yes, exclusively!


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## NCjeeper (May 29, 2021)

erikmannie said:


> The mechanic at work tried an Eastman machine + a HF spool gun, & he was unable to make any good welds. He gave up.


Was he pushing or pulling the weld? It works better to push the weld with the spool gun with aluminum.


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## Jonas302 (May 29, 2021)

Talk to your welding store Rep if your going exclusively aluminum a push pull gun is the best way to go






						Miller Push-Pull Welding Guns and Push Pull Welding Torches | MillerWelds
					

Welding torches and guns from Miller Welders combine advanced technology and professional performance so you can focus on the welding job at hand.




					www.millerwelds.com


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## erikmannie (May 29, 2021)

NCjeeper said:


> Was he pushing or pulling the weld? It works better to push the weld with the spool gun with aluminum.



He said that he “tried everything”. He claims to have done his research. He also claims to have done fine on another machine (with a different spool gun). 

He returned the HF spool gun.


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## erikmannie (May 29, 2021)

Jonas302 said:


> Talk to your welding store Rep if your going exclusively aluminum a push pull gun is the best way to go



I am always working when the welding shops are open. I get my info from the internet & buy everything online (except for shielding gas).

I have heard about push pull guns, but I will have to read about what they are.


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## Jonas302 (May 29, 2021)

Of course being at working always complicates things lol.
   We have an amazing welding shop that will bend over backwards to help and educate  its easy to forget others dont have that.  One morning the feed motor on my 20 year old miller quit called the shop motors 2 weeks out phoned the rep had a brand new machine delivered by noon old one sent for repairs given that we are not a big customer and are 50 miles away I was quite impressed 

Anyways a push pull gun has a feed motor in it and pulls from a 30 pound spool in the welder if you can swing the cost they are far superior to a spool gun of course crappy machines and guns cannot be compared to a miller but you already knew that


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## Firstram (May 29, 2021)

I have two tanks (Argon & 75/25) and a 30a spool gun on my Miller 251. The machine can tell which trigger I'm pulling and switches back to the last used settings. Your 252 does too, pay off that lathe!


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## erikmannie (May 30, 2021)

Firstram said:


> ...pay off that lathe!



I refinanced the lathe loan down to a 7.5% APR loan with payments of $150/week. After making that & all other payments, I have a surplus (discretionary funds approved by Mrs. Mannie) for further machine purchases. I am saving up for 2 more wire feed welders, a spool gun + a big mill, & that’s it for machines.

I have a few more years left of long overtime hours, but in about 5 years I will have to take a UPS job with just about zero overtime. This is my last chance to fully tool up before I permanently transition to a fixed income.


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## Alcap (May 30, 2021)

We had a Miller mig welder at work with an optional spool gun , sorry I can’t remember which models . We kept it set for steel with the regular gun , the cart had two tanks on argon/co2 mix and the other argon . . The spool gun took a little time to get used to. I’m not a skilled welder but got by the repairs needed. Like any skill it takes time , what worked for using the spool gun and aluminum was to preheat the metal for me anyway. If I didn’t it would be too cold at the start and glob up then finish ok . We did use the spool gun on steel by switching bottles and wire , that came in handy when we had to climb on the trucks to get where the regular gun couldn’t reach . I’ve never aluminum welder anything thinner the 1/8” so cant comment on that . If my welder at home was able to use a spool gun I would get one .


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## G-ManBart (May 30, 2021)

erikmannie said:


> I will probably be buying a wire feed welder in September that will be dedicated for a spool gun.
> 
> I prefer 220V Miller machines. I am considering a Millermatic 252 or Millermatic 255. I am just starting to look at it, but I think one choice for a gun is a 30A. I understand that I will want to use 100% Argon.
> 
> ...


I'm sort of a welder geek and have owned literally dozens of Millermatic machines and most of the spool guns....Spoolmatic 1, Spoolmatic 3, Spoolmate 200, Spoolmatic 30A and they all work really nicely.  They take some dialing in to get a feel for the wire speed and voltage combination, but it's not difficult.  I think it took me about five minutes to get an acceptable bead the first time I ran one.  The only real downside is that they only take the small spools of wire.

Both the 252 and 255 will take a push/pull gun, which may be an option for you.  The push-pull guns cost more, but for some things are better.  The push/pull guns from Miller are a bit bulkier than the spool guns, but allow you to run a large diameter spool on the machine.  You use U-shaped rollers in the machine's drive and there is a motor in the gun that pulls the wire.  You adjust the push side on the machine to match up with the push-pull gun.  The push-pull gun will be marked with a setting you put into the welder so the two are in sync...usually that's all it takes, but it can be tweaked if necessary.  The other nice thing with the push-pull setup is that (at least on my 350P) when you adjust the wire speed at the gun end it shows in the wire speed display on the machine so you're not guessing what the wire speed is.  On the Spoolmatic 30A it simply has a dial 1-10 that doesn't correlate directly to wire speed.  I never ran a push-pull gun on my 252, but I would expect it and the 255 show wire speed on the machine as well.  The push-pull guns do cost more than the spool guns, but nothing blue is cheap these days!

It seems like the folks doing heavier aluminum projects seem to go with the push-pull setup largely because of the big spool of wire.  I've read about guys in the pacific northwest and Alaska who make aluminum boats and many of them say the push-pull setup is the only way to go.  I've heard some of them will keep a spool gun handy for tighter spots, but that's probably overkill for most of us hobby welders.

What sort of projects are you planning?  I think that would really dictate it more than anything else.  If money is no object, just get a 350P Aluminum and be done with it...but it really is only for aluminum.  The standard 350P with the push-pull gun is a close second and what I'm using now...really amazing machine.


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## erikmannie (May 30, 2021)

G-ManBart said:


> I'm sort of a welder geek and have owned literally dozens of Millermatic machines and most of the spool guns....Spoolmatic 1, Spoolmatic 3, Spoolmate 200, Spoolmatic 30A and they all work really nicely.  They take some dialing in to get a feel for the wire speed and voltage combination, but it's not difficult.  I think it took me about five minutes to get an acceptable bead the first time I ran one.  The only real downside is that they only take the small spools of wire.
> 
> Both the 252 and 255 will take a push/pull gun, which may be an option for you.  The push-pull guns cost more, but for some things are better.  The push/pull guns from Miller are a bit bulkier than the spool guns, but allow you to run a large diameter spool on the machine.  You use U-shaped rollers in the machine's drive and there is a motor in the gun that pulls the wire.  You adjust the push side on the machine to match up with the push-pull gun.  The push-pull gun will be marked with a setting you put into the welder so the two are in sync...usually that's all it takes, but it can be tweaked if necessary.  The other nice thing with the push-pull setup is that (at least on my 350P) when you adjust the wire speed at the gun end it shows in the wire speed display on the machine so you're not guessing what the wire speed is.  On the Spoolmatic 30A it simply has a dial 1-10 that doesn't correlate directly to wire speed.  I never ran a push-pull gun on my 252, but I would expect it and the 255 show wire speed on the machine as well.  The push-pull guns do cost more than the spool guns, but nothing blue is cheap these days!
> 
> ...



I have not heard of a 350P Aluminum. I am going to research that now.

If I don’t get a 350P Aluminum, it sounds like a push-pull gun is the way to go because this machine will only be for aluminum.

As for my projects, I like to become adept at various processes just for a fun exercise. As such, I prefer to weld all types of joints (e.g. butt, edge) in all positions, ideally on coupons.

When I am retired (10 years), I hope to do metal art or other ideas that I come up with. I do not enjoy doing paid work for others.

Edit: these are scary expensive!









						Miller Millermatic 350P Aluminum MIG Welder (907474)
					

Optimized to weld aluminum.




					www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com
				




Second edit: now I see that the above does not include the gun. That is too expensive for me.


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## erikmannie (May 30, 2021)

Here are some Miller push-pull guns:





__





						Miller XR-Aluma Pro Lite Gun 300948
					






					store.cyberweld.com
				




and





__





						Miller XR-Aluma Pro A Gun - 25ft. 301569
					






					store.cyberweld.com
				




One could also add a suitcase to the conversation. I have not yet researched how a suitcase works.

In any case, I have to work & save for at least another 5 months, so I have plenty of time to think about it.

My 220V outlet only has a 40A breaker, so I have to keep that in mind. I can also do 3 phase 220V with a 40A circuit breaker.


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## erikmannie (May 30, 2021)

Here is a screenshot from:



			https://www.millerwelds.com/-/media/miller-electric/files/pdf/applications/aluminum/aluminum-welding-product-comparison-pr4.pdf
		


It is interesting that they do not include the (transformer based) Millermatic 252.


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## erikmannie (May 30, 2021)

Since this machine will be used exclusively for aluminum, I will try to save for a 3 phase 350P Aluminum. My only reservation is the 40A breaker in the shop.

I will call Miller Tuesday morning & ask what sized breaker they require for the 350P Aluminum.

Edit: it looks like a 40A breaker would work for a 3 phase machine.

From:



			https://www.millerwelds.com/files/owners-manuals/o254915b_mil.pdf
		





Second edit: I have been running 220V welders at up to 210A for years, & I have never tripped the 40A breaker.


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## erikmannie (May 30, 2021)

So, like I said, the 350P costs too much. I am back to probably a Millermatic 255 with an appropriate push-pull gun.

I would still consider a Millermatic 252, but I wonder if Miller will phase these out in the next few years, even though they are clearly bombproof.


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## Firstram (May 31, 2021)

That 350P aluminum set up is amazing but, hard to justify if it's not paying for itself. I put a flexible neck on my spool gun to access a tight project. It was a game changer, now it's easy to get comfortable welding in any position. It doesn't feel like I'm welding with a football anymore!


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## G-ManBart (May 31, 2021)

erikmannie said:


> So, like I said, the 350P costs too much. I am back to probably a Millermatic 255 with an appropriate push-pull gun.
> 
> I would still consider a Millermatic 252, but I wonder if Miller will phase these out in the next few years, even though they are clearly bombproof.



I have no idea if Miller will phase out the 252, but I wouldn't let that influence your decision at all.  Miller supports their older machines extremely well.  Most of the parts for any Millermatic going back 30+ years are still available and the reality is that a transformer machine is far less likely to fail.

Don't you already have a Millermatic 252?  I thought you were looking to get another machine dedicated to FCAW?


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## erikmannie (May 31, 2021)

G-ManBart said:


> I have no idea if Miller will phase out the 252, but I wouldn't let that influence your decision at all.  Miller supports their older machines extremely well.  Most of the parts for any Millermatic going back 30+ years are still available and the reality is that a transformer machine is far less likely to fail.
> 
> Don't you already have a Millermatic 252?  I thought you were looking to get another machine dedicated to FCAW?



I have a Millermatic 252 set up for MIG now; it is a winner. I am saving up for a Millermatic 255 that I will use for MIG, and then my existing 252 will be dedicated to flux core.

I will then save up for a dedicated “wire feed aluminum” machine. The Millermatic 255 is looking like my choice now (because it can pulse), but I know that a 252 is VERY reliable. I don’t have to decide until September.

I am actually too lazy to switch wire, rollers, shielding gas, etc. & I just want to roll the welding cart over for the wire feed task at hand. A lot of people are lazy like that.


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## G-ManBart (May 31, 2021)

erikmannie said:


> I have a Millermatic 252 set up for MIG now; it is a winner. I am saving up for a Millermatic 255 that I will use for MIG, and then my existing 252 will be dedicated to flux core.
> 
> I will then save up for a dedicated “wire feed aluminum” machine. The Millermatic 255 is looking like my choice now (because it can pulse), but I know that a 252 is VERY reliable. I don’t have to decide until September.
> 
> I am actually too lazy to switch wire, rollers, shielding gas, etc. & I just want to roll the welding cart over for the wire feed task at hand. A lot of people are lazy like that.


Gotcha.  I haven't followed it too closely, but quite a few folks seem unhappy with the pulse function on the 255 which seems concerning since it's probably what makes folks pick that model.  A friend just bought a 255 but I'm not sure if he's experimented with aluminum pulse yet since most of his projects are steel.


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## erikmannie (Jun 1, 2021)

G-ManBart said:


> Gotcha.  I haven't followed it too closely, but quite a few folks seem unhappy with the pulse function on the 255 which seems concerning since it's probably what makes folks pick that model.  A friend just bought a 255 but I'm not sure if he's experimented with aluminum pulse yet since most of his projects are steel.



A Millermatic 252 is a known commodity & a safe choice. I don’t feel like I need pulse for aluminum.

I am picking up a Millermatic 255 in July (for use with steel), so I will get to try out it’s pulse functionality this summer. I have also read online about people’s difficulty with getting the 255 pulse going. I am also going to try spray transfer on that machine.


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## General Zod (Jun 2, 2021)

erikmannie said:


> A Millermatic 252 is a known commodity & a safe choice. I don’t feel like I need pulse for aluminum.
> 
> I am picking up a Millermatic 255 in July (for use with steel), so I will get to try out it’s pulse functionality this summer. I have also read online about people’s difficulty with getting the 255 pulse going. I am also going to try spray transfer on that machine.



Don't recall if I asked before, but please do document your results with the appropriate shielding gas.   Spray Transfer should not be a problem, as even the smaller Miller inverter MIGs can do it.  I'm curious about seeing how it runs pulsed-spray by someone other than a Miller employee.


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## erikmannie (Jun 2, 2021)

General Zod said:


> Don't recall if I asked before, but please do document your results with the appropriate shielding gas.   Spray Transfer should not be a problem, as even the smaller Miller inverter MIGs can do it.  I'm curious about seeing how it runs pulsed-spray by someone other than a Miller employee.



What Argon/Carbon Dioxide ratio do you recommend for spray transfer (ER70S-6)? FCAW-S? I know you posted this in another thread; as I recall, you said “at least 90% Ar”; presently, I don’t remember if that was for spray transfer (steel) or FCAW-S.

The reason I ask this is because I only have C25 cylinders now for my GMAW. When I buy cylinders for my FCAW-S machine (a Millermatic 252) and my Millermatic 255 (GMAW & GMAW-P), I wonder if I should choose 90/10 or 92/8 or something else (e.g. an active gas) for FCAW-S as well as spray transfer with solidcore steel.

I know that all GMAW with aluminum is 100% Argon.


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## erikmannie (Jun 2, 2021)

Another thing: when I started stick welding, I bought the el cheapo (e.g. Made in Turkey) stick electrodes. They were fine, but then I tried Lincoln Electric 5P+ and Excalibur 7018MR which were a surprisingly large improvement. I only use those 2 electrodes now (except for E4043 and 1/16” 6013 & nobody cares about those).

I have not had that experience with any TIG, gas welding or brazing rod. I have only ever used cheap TIG and gas welding filler rod. For brazing, the C-04 (pretty expensive) and LFB (not expensive) seem to work about the same for me.

I wonder if there is a brand of flux core, ER70S-6, 4043 or 5356 wire that is a noticeable improvement. I have always bought the cheapest ER70S-6, & it seems fine.


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## General Zod (Jun 3, 2021)

erikmannie said:


> What Argon/Carbon Dioxide ratio do you recommend for spray transfer (ER70S-6)? FCAW-S? I know you posted this in another thread; as I recall, you said “at least 90% Ar”; presently, I don’t remember if that was for spray transfer (steel) or FCAW-S.
> 
> The reason I ask this is because I only have C25 cylinders now for my GMAW. When I buy cylinders for my FCAW-S machine (a Millermatic 252) and my Millermatic 255 (GMAW & GMAW-P), I wonder if I should choose 90/10 or 92/8 or something else (e.g. an active gas) for FCAW-S as well as spray transfer with solidcore steel.
> 
> I know that all GMAW with aluminum is 100% Argon.



If you have a choice, go with 92/8.  It will work just fine for both straight up axial spray transer and pulsed-spray.   FCAW-S _doesn't _use gas (FCAW-S = *F*lux _*C*_ore _*A*_rc _*W*_elding - _*S*_elf-shield).  FCAW-*G* does use a shielding gas, but you generally need either C100 or C25, depending on the actual wire classification (E71T-1C = needs C100, E71T-1M = needs C25, E71T-1C/1M = C100 or C25).

So unfortunately, if you plan to use gas-shielded flux core and spray transfer you will need two separate tanks of shielding gas.


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## 7milesup (Jun 3, 2021)

I think you should get the 350P Aluminum.  Just a few overtime days a month and you could have it.  It is only money, can't take it with you.


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## Janderso (Jun 3, 2021)

erikmannie said:


> Yes, exclusively!


I have watched videos on these spool guns for aluminum.
Apparently, it’s just as easy as MiG welding.
I suck at Tig welding aluminum. Steel, not so bad.
Please share your experience when you get there!


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## erikmannie (Jun 3, 2021)

Well, now my idea to buy 2 more wire feed welders has been delayed until I pay off some debts.

UPS is *crazy* busy, & my back, knees & shoulders are starting to cause me some concern. I need to pay off a lot of debt while I can.


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## G-ManBart (Jun 6, 2021)

Janderso said:


> I have watched videos on these spool guns for aluminum.
> Apparently, it’s just as easy as MiG welding.
> I suck at Tig welding aluminum. Steel, not so bad.
> Please share your experience when you get there!


I'm certainly not a pro, but I wouldn't say MIG aluminum with a spool gun or push/pull gun is quite as easy as steel.  It's not terrible, but it's definitely harder than steel.  There really isn't any way to get around the fact that it transfers heat so quickly that you really have to move.  With that said, I think it took all of five minutes before I was getting pretty decent results the first time I tried using a spool gun...not perfect, but pretty decent.  My sense has always been that with MIG on steel you can slow down/speed up to compensate for settings that aren't quite right...like adding a little circle or weave.  That's not really what you want to be doing with aluminum as it's just going to put too much heat into the work.


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## erikmannie (Jun 6, 2021)

I look forward to trying a spool or push-pull gun in a year or so after I pay off $4,250 in debt that I want to get off the books. One has an interest rate of 35% APR, so that needs to go.


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## addertooth (Jun 8, 2021)

There is an old saying in technology "Nobody was ever fired for specifying IBM".   It looks like pretty much only Miller is on everyone's radar here.  
I would wonder if other options would be viable, if all you want to do is spool welding of aluminum.   You got solid advice when you were told that the settings for aluminum are far less forgiving than on mild steel.  I have met a few people who thought they had a "lemon" of a welder, when settings (or even their selection of Gas and Wire) were wrong.   They had been prepared to sell their welder on Craigslist, because they were confident it was bad.   Normally, those who spend a bit more on a welder, are pretty good about watching a LOT of videos, before they take a stab at Aluminum.  They read through dozens of charts to figure how the relationship between settings and the work they wish to do.


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