# 1942 SB Heavy 10: What Kind of Cabinet Is This?



## karlsangree (Nov 20, 2021)

I am getting ready to begin hacking away at a South Bend 10L 8187AN. The serial number (128729) puts it at 1942. I have never seen this cabinet before. Google doesn't show a single picture of a 10L with this bench. The majority of photos of the 8187AN have the bench with the semi-circular, bent tubing feet. Any ideas?


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## woodchucker (Nov 20, 2021)

Home made.


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## MrWhoopee (Nov 20, 2021)

Agree with @woodchucker. It lacks the chip pan that would have come on a factory SB Heavy 10. 
Here's my '63.


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## karlsangree (Nov 20, 2021)

woodchucker said:


> Home made.


Well, that explains why I can't find another one like it.

Thanks!


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## benmychree (Nov 20, 2021)

Maybe a wartime thing?


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## SLK001 (Nov 20, 2021)

Definitely homemade.  The drawers are made out of wood and it looks like the top is too.


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## Richard King 2 (Nov 21, 2021)

benmychree said:


> Maybe a wartime thing?


It could have been on a ship or in a shipyard.  Many SB lathes were on ships.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 21, 2021)

looks like an old girl too  You know we need more pictures than that, right? It's like taking a picture of the wheels of a car and nothing else!


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## karlsangree (Nov 23, 2021)

I just received a copy of the original sales receipt. My suspicions were correct in that it is a 1942 model. The sales slip says the cabinet is, in fact, a custom cabinet from South Bend. I've never seen one of these before but apparently that's how the original owner (War Department Air Corps, Mobile AL) purchased it. Note the comment that reads:
"SPEC. WOODEN [??????? ???????] IN LIEU OF
REG. STEEL BENCH. HARD MAPLE. 9 DRAWER.
PAINTED OLIVE GREEN"

EDIT: After staring at the sales slip, I believe the wording of the first line is: "_SPEC. WOODEN CABINET BENCH IN LIEU OF_", but I may be wrong. If anyone sees anything else, let me know.


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## karlsangree (Nov 23, 2021)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> looks like an old girl too  You know we need more pictures than that, right? It's like taking a picture of the wheels of a car and nothing else!


Old girl? I guess if 79 is old then yeah... she's an old girl.

Here ya go mate...
Sitting in my garage:



In seller's house:


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## Shootymacshootface (Nov 23, 2021)

But, will it cut?


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## SLK001 (Nov 23, 2021)

I wonder what the reasons were for a wooden bench for it.  It was also ordered with a single phase motor - something I hadn't seen before for a military lathe of 10" and above.


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## karlsangree (Nov 23, 2021)

Shootymacshootface said:


> But, will it cut?


Absolutely. I had to rebuild the drive assembly first. It was caked with hardened grease/swarth and the felt wicks were petrified so badly that the chuck would barely turn with the lead screw engaged. I also had to completely rewire it. The previous owner's son had cut the wires from the reversing switch to the motor to separate the lathe from the bench. However, after the cleaning and rewire, it makes beautiful chips. Once I get my kicks with it, I plan on doing a full restoration.


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## Shootymacshootface (Nov 23, 2021)

Very nice! I'm sure that you could make that bench it's on into something special.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 23, 2021)

very cool, lovely lines. Only 79 years old? Sounds like a spring chicken then, mine's coming up on 100


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## gunsmither (Nov 24, 2021)

Great looking photo's, thanks. I "assumed" it was home made too; my bad! Congrats on a neat piece of history karlsangree!

I have a 10L, single lever gear box type with the semi-circular, bent tubing feet.  With that style cabinet, it was listed as a "collet lathe"
I believe. I've owned it since 1976. The fellow I purchased it from lived in Chicago, and he told me he bought it new in 1950, but I think
he may have been mistaken, as I don't think that single lever gear box model was made still after WWII, but I may be wrong.


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## karlsangree (Nov 24, 2021)

gunsmither said:


> Great looking photo's, thanks. I "assumed" it was home made too; my bad! Congrats on a neat piece of history karlsangree!


Thanks!

I first got an inkling of when mine was made by going to the "Manufacturers Index - South Bend Lathe Works" of the Vintage Machinery site. I found the closest serial numbers before and after mine and they were both listed as 1942 lathes. I then shelled out the $25 for a PDF of the original sales receipt from Grizzly and confirmed it was a '42 but also discovered that the maple cabinet was a factory supplied piece.


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## SLK001 (Nov 24, 2021)

gunsmither said:


> I have a 10L, single lever gear box type with the semi-circular, bent tubing feet.  With that style cabinet, it was listed as a "collet lathe"
> I believe. I've owned it since 1976. The fellow I purchased it from lived in Chicago, and he told me he bought it new in 1950, but I think
> he may have been mistaken, as I don't think that single lever gear box model was made still after WWII, but I may be wrong.



I believe that 1952 was the year that SB went to the double tumbler gear box for their larger lathes.  The 9" came out with a double tumbler gear box in the late 1930's when the new Workshop series was introduced.  I also believe that the wide range double tumbler gear box for the 10L came out in 1954.


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## gunsmither (Nov 25, 2021)

I spoke to a guy at South Bend about 30 years ago when ordering a synthetic drive belt. So I asked him about the date of my machine. He looked
it up, and told me it was made in 1964! Needless to say he agreed that couldn't be right, but according to him, that's what their records showed for the serial number. I bought a new set of reversing gears a few years after that, and was told it was made sometime in the 60's by another guy
in the parts dept., per the serial number. This fellow said that they had a fire at sometime, and all their records got ruined. Who knows?


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## karlsangree (Nov 25, 2021)

Grizzly Industrial has a service where they will supply you with the information about your South Bend lathe based on the serial number. It costs $25 and it took them about 3 days to get mine. I'm not sure if every year is the same, but for my 1942 10L, they supplied me with a copy of the original sales slip.

Grizzly Serial Card for South Bend




EDIT: If you use this service, you'll get a weird message when checking out about the product being backordered or something like that. Not sure why you get that other than the process does take about 2-3 days.


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## SLK001 (Nov 25, 2021)

gunsmither said:


> I spoke to a guy at South Bend about 30 years ago when ordering a synthetic drive belt. So I asked him about the date of my machine. He looked
> it up, and told me it was made in 1964! Needless to say he agreed that couldn't be right, but according to him, that's what their records showed for the serial number. I bought a new set of reversing gears a few years after that, and was told it was made sometime in the 60's by another guy
> in the parts dept., per the serial number. This fellow said that they had a fire at sometime, and all their records got ruined. Who knows?



He could have been confused, because SB changed their serializing method in the late 1940's and started over with the numbers.  There is a 6741 serial number in the "old" method and a 6741 plus some letters in the "new" method.  Sometimes companies will stamp their own letters after the SB serial number, confusing things even more.  The military would often stamp extra stuff after the SB serial number.


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## gunsmither (Nov 26, 2021)

Appreciate the info regards serial numbers, dates of manufacture. My machine has the un-Flame Hardened Bed. Not sure when they started to
flame them, or if they ever did them all after a certain date? When I bought this in 1976, the frosting on the V ways was "as new". Now after 45
years of my use, the ways show some wear, but the machine is still quite accurate. I use it for production runs of of 50-100 pcs. fairly regularly, with the 6 station turret I added about 30 years ago. I even had my Unimat set up as a drill press to drill side holes in a piece I used to manufacture before I went to a CNC set up. With position stops, it worked great. It's one of my "old friends"!


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## jwmay (Nov 26, 2021)

What kind of base is it? Awesome is what kind of base it is! Awesome and rare evidently. Nice score!


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## SLK001 (Nov 26, 2021)

Flame hardened beds first made their appearance around 1956-57 (experimental, I guess).  Later, still in the fifties, it became an option for all lathes except the 9".  Around 1967, flame hardening became standard for  the 10" and above.  These dates are approximate, but fairly close.


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## gunsmither (Nov 26, 2021)

I would imagine that the "flame hardening" wouldn't make a whole lot of difference to a small time gunsmithing operation like myself, or schools and hobby machinists, but for toolroom and true production machines, it would prove important. South Bend really never changed their basic design much over many years, living on their reputation. The Taiwan and Chi Com machines really killed them. When I was a young man looking for a lathe, there were no import machine tools, only used domestics, of which South Bend seemed to be the Cat's Meow, to me anyhow, at least in the area I resided at the time in the early 70's near Chi Town.


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## karlsangree (Nov 28, 2021)

In case anyone is interested, I found a photo of another South Bend maple cabinet in Google images. I forget what site it's from, but the photo's watermark says "govdeals.com"; a government surplus auction house. Dig that crazy paint scheme.


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## woodchucker (Nov 28, 2021)

interesting. the crazy paint was most likely made for organizing draws. different colors for different purpose TYPE storage.
the machine is an UGLY color... the cabinet not SO bad.


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## Kevin T (Nov 28, 2021)

That is an awesome machine! You're all set with the taper attachment too. I'm digging the cabinet, been thinking of building some drawer setup under my chip tray.


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