# Making New SB Heavy 10 L front Bearing



## mainspring (Nov 15, 2014)

Gents,

  After a couple of weeks of fruitless searching, and finding only used and questionable
  bronze bearings for my Heavy 10, and since SB/Grizzly is out of them,
  I am going to have to make my own.

  I plan to start with some 600 series bronze sleeve bearings, and then bore them in a
  support sleeve in the 4-jaw. Then I will have to hone them on the Sunnen machine to 
  final dimension. Then on a long expanding collett, turn the OD to size.
  Finally I will have to split the bearing (done in the chuck sleeve from the first step)
  and then mill the dovetail for the key. Oil holes will be installed with an end mill.

 Concentricity, ID dimension, and parallelism are the issues here.

 Any suggestions? Experience? The bearings are cylindrical, not cam ground like a piston ring.


 If there is any interest, i will photo document the project and the results.

 Facing some interesting work,

     Phil L


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## Hutch (Nov 15, 2014)

Definitely interested. Please post pics.


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## Thoro (Nov 15, 2014)

Me too. Please share anything possible. I have often thought of how on could tackle this project.... Which I am sure someone has St some point


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 15, 2014)

i'd like to see the procedure, count me in!


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## woodtickgreg (Nov 16, 2014)

I'd like to see it as well. Just a thought, it might develop into a little side buisness if you where willing. People have been looking for these for a long time. Not just for the tens but for the 13's and 16's too. It could blossom into a little cottage biz if you where willing and figured it all out. I don't know of anyone doing this, seems to be about the only part you cant by or refurb and there is a market for it. Just sayin.........


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## StepSide 88 (May 26, 2017)

So... 3.4 yrs later  and still no replies?
Has anyone found anyone who's made their own and more importantly MADE AN EXTRA SET?????
because curious minds are still looking!
Heavy 10 bronze split bushing OR SPECS even a PICTURE would help at this point.
Thanks to all who venture here with useful suggestions.


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## woodtickgreg (May 26, 2017)

Nope, but I saw a couple sets on ebay.


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## StepSide 88 (May 27, 2017)

Used. I checked there first.
I'm not qualified to say but the scoring wasn't encouraging.
Thought I'd check out other options first, but the age of posts on topic
 seem to point towards self gratification one way or another.


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## woodtickgreg (May 27, 2017)

The bearings in my lathe where scored much worse that the ones on ebay, I was able to clean them up with a brake cylinder hone, and polish after the hone, and they adjusted to spec and work awesome. The scoring on the one set of bearings on ebay didn't concern me, but the damage from pulling the caps without removing the expander caps first did. I recently saw a very nice set on there with no expander damage for 100 bucks ish. A steal! Grizzly was selling bearing sets for 700! when they had them. Yes so if someone could figure out how to machine these in quantity they could definitely make some money and help a lot of folks keep these machines alive.


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## StepSide 88 (May 27, 2017)

Thanks, I haven't been looking until now so your sharing your observations helps a lot.
I'll keep looking and have some more patience


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## woodtickgreg (May 28, 2017)

I would love to get my hands on an original drawing with the dimensions and specs of them.


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## StepSide 88 (May 28, 2017)

I got to talking with a friend showing him where the bushing would go and realized there's no room for anything close to a bushing. The bearing cap is snug against the spindle.
Caps are segmented the spindle is pitted looking.
So what type of bearing setup do I have?


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## woodtickgreg (May 29, 2017)

It sounds like you have a older lathe with the headstock using cast iron bearing surfaces. Pics would help.


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## markba633csi (May 29, 2017)

StepSide does your headstock look like this? It's the cast iron bearing version.
Supposedly it's very durable from what I've read on other forums


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## silverhawk (May 29, 2017)

mainspring said:


> Gents,
> 
> After a couple of weeks of fruitless searching, and finding only used and questionable
> bronze bearings for my Heavy 10, and since SB/Grizzly is out of them,
> ...



Kind of strange to see an old thread. I will make a suggestion that might irk some people because the books I am going to reference , but it is the principle behind the suggestion that is needed.

For those not familiar, a man named David Gingery put out a series of books about building lathes, shapers, mills, etc., using aluminum, wood patterns, and a forge. The lathe book, when doing the headstock and in order to get that center axis parallel to the bed ways, actually talks about using a temporary headstock. Now, a guy on YouTube (makercise) did the lathe build, and in parts 4, 5, and 6, he does the headstock.






For those of you cringing, the underlying principle is to cut the bronze outer diameters, get a second headstock, and use the second headstock to bore the first and keep it long and parallel to the bed ways. For accuracy, it is the best method for a specific lathe and headstock.


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## StepSide 88 (May 29, 2017)

markba633csi said:


> StepSide does your headstock look like this? It's the cast iron bearing version.
> Supposedly it's very durable from what I've read on other forums
> 
> 
> ...


Was just about to post some pics of it.
Thats the puppy.












20170529_124035



__ StepSide 88
__ May 29, 2017



						Spindle bearing
1942 SB heavy 10
					
















20170529_123956



__ StepSide 88
__ May 29, 2017



						Small end spindle bearing 1942 SB heavy 10


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## dlane (May 29, 2017)

Those should be serviceable, pull the spindle and polish , maybe fine scotchbright
How many shims were in there ?
While your at it replacing the spindle  oil wicks would be a good idea.
What problem is the spindle giving you.


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## StepSide 88 (May 29, 2017)

dlane said:


> Those should be serviceable, pull the spindle and polish , maybe fine scotchbright
> How many shims were in there ?
> While your at it replacing the spindle  oil wicks would be a good idea.
> What problem is the spindle giving you.



*1942 South Bend Heavy 10- Barnyard rebirth*
*http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/1942-south-bend-heavy-10-barnyard-rebirth.58516/#post-481738*
This should answer your questions.
I'm just making sure I have a reasonable destination...
Before I invest more than the soap and electricity for RE into it.
So far so good it seems.


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## woodtickgreg (May 29, 2017)

dlane said:


> Those should be serviceable, pull the spindle and polish , maybe fine scotchbright
> How many shims were in there ?
> While your at it replacing the spindle  oil wicks would be a good idea.
> What problem is the spindle giving you.


I agree, I was wondering where the shims where as well, if any. Yup, polish that spindle up and get it set to spec with a lift test. Probably outlast us all!


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## dlane (May 29, 2017)

Make chips, see what happens
Soap , destination ?


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## StepSide 88 (May 30, 2017)

So far I'm into it for some washing soda and 12v electricity. $5.00 maybe.
It came in rusted pieces. Shims were saved in a small plastic container as were the bed shims (but a large one)
I'm still sorting out the small bits, pins bolts etc. But I think most of them are here.
 As for 'destination' I'd like to know its going to be a usable machine without having to spend what a used machine is going to run. Which was what started me on this thread. 
If I'm looking at spending a grand I'd let it go for parts since it's already in pieces.
But I'm leaning now towards trying dressing the spindle or if need be  taking off a few thou and threading it for repair with locktite industrial.
So I'm still under budget and chips are still a possibility.


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## woodtickgreg (May 30, 2017)

I'm not sure what you are saying about the spindle, is it damaged other than the wear on the bearing journals? Not sure what you where trying to say about the loctite. This is what I think you should do, clean and polish the spindle, place it in the headstock and install the bearing caps with enough shims to be able to turn the spindle by hand. Then insert a solid round bar about a foot and a half long into the center of the spindle and set up a indicator on it and see how much play is in the So I flea both up and down and side to side. This will tell you how worn the breadstick is. Look in my heavy ten rebuild thread and you will see the set up for this. I'll try and find a pick of the set up when I get home from work tonight.


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## StepSide 88 (May 30, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> I'm not sure what you are saying about the spindle, is it damaged other than the wear on the bearing journals? Not sure what you where trying to say about the loctite. This is what I think you should do, clean and polish the spindle, place it in the headstock and install the bearing caps with enough shims to be able to turn the spindle by hand. Then insert a solid round bar about a foot and a half long into the center of the spindle and set up a indicator on it and see how much play is in the So I flea both up and down and side to side. This will tell you how worn the breadstick is. Look in my heavy ten rebuild thread and you will see the set up for this. I'll try and find a pick of the set up when I get home from work tonight.



If you guys think the pitting on the spindle in no big deal then I'll polish and go, but I was thinking along the following lines regarding the loctite. Different brand but same idea.






As there is no bench for this yet and its still in pieces running tolerance tests isn't very practical.
I definitely will once it comes together.
I'm just trying to line my ducks up in a row at this point.


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## woodtickgreg (May 30, 2017)

I honestly don't know if a product like that would work in a spindle application. I have my doubts. Spindles can be had if you think it is to far gone. Polish it and see how it looks first.


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## StepSide 88 (May 30, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> I honestly don't know if a product like that would work in a spindle application. I have my doubts. Spindles can be had if you think it is to far gone. Polish it and see how it looks first.






From what I saw of the  'epoxy putty'  tests and other Info this is exactly the type of application they developed that stuff for,  repairing shafts running in a bearing.
I just found out about it yesterday so more investigations are coming.
It turns up on PM searches and goes back years in use from what I've seen so far. 

Mine as is won't fly far unless someone can convince me those are all just oil pockets...


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## woodtickgreg (May 30, 2017)

No, I think your right, that's pretty bad. But having seen that and knowing what you can get a spindle for I would probably just replace it. What I don't know is if the spindles are the same for the cast iron bearing verses the bronze bearing shells.


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## StepSide 88 (May 30, 2017)

I have my doubts about them matching.
Waiting on pricing info for the 1131 formula from the video above.
Non shrinking with graphite specifically for this application. 
He said take it down .125 and leave it like was your first cut ever...
Welll *I* can do that! 
The other method I felt doable for me is flux core tranfer weld. With the VFO on my first lathe I could set it as slow as I need and I wouldn't have to take out the .125 to start.  Just to the bottom of the pits.
I'll let cost/ease factor in and see whats what.


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## StepSide 88 (May 31, 2017)

A kilo of 1131 runs over $400.
Time to get the mig out and start practicing on a chunk of 2" pipe chucked up and turning in the old homemade WG Hartman...
Yeah, he made it.


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## markba633csi (Jun 2, 2017)

Would be an interesting bit of info to know if the cast iron spindle will interchange with the bronze one.
MS


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 2, 2017)

It looks the same but I don't really know. Maybe comparing south bends part numbers for each might tell the tale.


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## StepSide 88 (Jun 3, 2017)

CE3458 form 909-E pg 16 Item #82 no part number.
I saw one on e... and thought I'd ask for spec's but I need to get a larger mic. My 1" won't do.
Looking for photos for comparisons is even challenging but my reasoning has progressed to 'they are the same.'
They changed the bearing housing as the easiest part to change at the drop of a hat... Or bombs.
They show 3 different spindles so I'm thinking you could upgrade to the 4D1 or Taper key size00 from the base model.
If I'm understanding the layout of the part book correctly.
The main Head stock base model shows everything, the D1 & 00 pages just show the spindle and parts.

So the next question is how does one fit a different spindle to CI bearings? And if doable, is now the time to upgrade too a D1?


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## StepSide 88 (Jun 3, 2017)

Found that heavy 10 R & L Spindles are interchangeable.
Ordered an L off e...
Bigger better and badder .


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## benmychree (Jun 8, 2017)

StepSide 88 said:


> View attachment 234532
> 
> 
> From what I saw of the  'epoxy putty'  tests and other Info this is exactly the type of application they developed that stuff for,  repairing shafts running in a bearing.
> ...


The cure for what I see in the picture, which looks awful, would be to have the spindle cylindrically ground undersize and subsequent hard chrome and finish grinding to size; I did the job on a 1920s 10" South Bend lathe years ago and made a new split bearing for the chuck end and was able to re use the back end bearing after the chrome job on both ends.  The spindles in these early machines seem to be quite soft and wear excessively; the job make a good lathe of it.
To make the split bearing, I turned 660 bearing bronze to rough dimension, split it with a slitting saw in the mill, then soft soldered the halves together and bored them to size, then put them on a mandrel and finished the OD dimensions.  One departure from original that I did was to turn a recess around the fit in the headstock to match the oil hole and then milled a slot through the bottom half of the bearing and inserted a felt wick into it; the recess served as an oil reservoir and the felt metered and filtered the oil; this worked well.


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## StepSide 88 (Jun 10, 2017)

Cool.
But it's not a split bearing lathe.
I haven't seen where anybody has done anything like that for a Cast Iron bearing so I went for replacing the spindle with one from epay. The selling party misrepresented the item... so it's not an L but rather an R but it will work just fine.


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 11, 2017)

Only thing with an R is a smaller bore diameter if I remember correctly.


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## StepSide 88 (Jun 12, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> Only thing with an R is a smaller bore diameter if I remember correctly.


Thats what I understood too.
Just exactly how that worked still messes with my mind cause I don't see how that possibly could. The L bore would seemingly make the bearing surface to large...
But its not a L so I'm not going to sweat it.


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## bobl (Jun 12, 2017)

mainspring said:


> Gents,
> 
> After a couple of weeks of fruitless searching, and finding only used and questionable
> bronze bearings for my Heavy 10, and since SB/Grizzly is out of them,
> ...



Post me to 


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## bobl (Jul 8, 2017)

bobl said:


> Post me to
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk



I'm interested do you need to hone can you not grind with stool post grinder


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## woodtickgreg (Jul 9, 2017)

bobl said:


> I'm interested do you need to hone can you not grind with stool post grinder
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


I honed mine because they had some galling and scoring that I did not like, then I sanded them with 600 grit and oil, and then buffed them for a polish. I can give it a spin by hand with the belt disengaged and it will spin about 2 turns. It dialed right in when I set the clearance with a lift test and doesn't even get warm after long turning sessions. You have to think of these bearings like the main crankshaft bearings in a car engine, they function basically the same. You want them as smooth and uniform as can be for less friction and so the parts are separated by the film of oil. Did I go to far polishing mine? I don't think so, it works flawlessly.


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