# Wards/logan 200 Thread Dial



## bama7 (Jan 13, 2016)

The more I fix the more I find other stuff to fix or be confused about.  I finally got my motor wired so I have forward and reverse by flipping a switch with a separate on off switch.  While checking things out a little more I installed the "thread dial".  Something is wrong because it wants to climb over the "lead screw" and that is not a good thing at all.  The dial I have is approximately 3 5/16" in total length.  It has sixteen teeth, but the teeth seem too narrow for the lead screw threads.  Is this the correct "thread dial" for my machine or should it be longer so it doesn't "climb" on top of the lead screw?  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## eeler1 (Jan 13, 2016)

Can you take a picture of it on the machine in the engaged position?


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## bama7 (Jan 13, 2016)

I reinstalled the thread dial and engaged it  and the dial started moving.  When I engaged the carriage the dial stopped moving and the carriage moved without any problems.  I the pushed the thread dial into the lead screw and turned the lathe on.  The result was the thread dial climbing on top of the lead screw.  The carriage seems to be tight enough to the ways although I can see that it looks to be lifted, a gap, by the thread dial.  I will break it all down tomorrow and see what I can find.[URL=http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/bama7and9/media/002_zps4zjizmv2.jpg.html]
	

		
			
		

		
	


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## T Bredehoft (Jan 13, 2016)

It appears to be not long enough, the middle of the gauge gears should be on the middle of the lead screw. 

Climbing on top may be caused by the slot in the lead screw catching the bottom of the gauge gear and pushing itself (the lead screw) down. .


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## bama7 (Jan 13, 2016)

I may have lucked upon something that could be causing my problem.  One of the bracket bolts is missing on the right end of the lead screw.  I am hoping that it is causing a pivot point, for the lead screw, and allowing the thread dial to climb the lead screw.  I will get some new bolts tomorrow and see what happens.


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## CluelessNewB (Jan 13, 2016)

For what it's worth here is a picture of the thread dial that came with my 1945 vintage Logan 820.   Note that the gear rides in the middle of the lead screw as Tom suggested.   Mine is a bit different than those shown in the manual for the 820 but does seem to match catalog pictures.   The body is bronze or brass and it doesn't have any cover over the outside part of the gear. Sorry about the sideways picture. it looks fine on my computer.


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## brino (Jan 13, 2016)

Hey bama,

it looks to me like the entire carriage is lifting up:



you may need to look into that too.

Can you lift the carriage by hand?

-brino


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## bama7 (Jan 13, 2016)

brino, I cannot lift the carriage, but I did see the gap.


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## Chuck K (Jan 14, 2016)

eeler1 said:


> Can you take a picture of it on the machine in the engaged position?


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## Chuck K (Jan 14, 2016)

There is no way that you can swing the thread dial past the lead screw if everything is correct.  You either have the wrong  thread dial or something is assembled incorrectly. What happens when you engage the half nuts?  Does the lead screw raise up?


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## bama7 (Jan 14, 2016)

Chuck K said:


> There is no way that you can swing the thread dial past the lead screw if everything is correct.  You either have the wrong  thread dial or something is assembled incorrectly. What happens when you engage the half nuts?  Does the lead screw raise up?



  I reinstalled the thread dial and engaged it and the dial started moving. When I engaged the carriage the dial stopped moving and the carriage moved without any problems. I then pushed the thread dial into the lead screw and turned the lathe on. The result was the thread dial climbing on top of the lead screw. The carriage seems to be tight enough to the ways although I can see that it looks to be a gap.   I have a Thread Dial on the way here from Illinois.  I pulled the carriage assembly off the lathe today, but have not had the opportunity to see what may be wrong.  I believe I will find it to be something I did not assemble correctly along with the wrong dial.  I downloaded a manual from the site a few minutes ago to look at the parts breakdown for some assembly help.


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## 4GSR (Jan 14, 2016)

As much as the thread dial needs to move down.  There may be enough room to drill and tap a new hole for mounting the thread dial into the correct position.


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## brino (Jan 14, 2016)

keep at it bama, you'll get there....and have a useful machine afterwards.



bama7 said:


> I reinstalled the thread dial and engaged it and the dial started moving. When I engaged the carriage the dial stopped moving and the carriage moved without any problems.



So far, so good!



bama7 said:


> I then pushed the thread dial into the lead screw and turned the lathe on. The result was the thread dial climbing on top of the lead screw.



Wait ...what? 
What did I miss?

Step 1 sounded okay, but step 2 ... no so much!

Is it possible that the thread dial is from a different lathe?
If the gear on it was a different tooth count than the half-nut it would attempt to turn at a different rate than the carriage and cause issues.
The length may confirm it.

-brino


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## John Hasler (Jan 14, 2016)

bama7 said:


> The more I fix the more I find other stuff to fix or be confused about.  I finally got my motor wired so I have forward and reverse by flipping a switch with a separate on off switch.  While checking things out a little more I installed the "thread dial".  Something is wrong because it wants to climb over the "lead screw" and that is not a good thing at all.  The dial I have is approximately 3 5/16" in total length.  It has sixteen teeth, but the teeth seem too narrow for the lead screw threads.  Is this the correct "thread dial" for my machine or should it be longer so it doesn't "climb" on top of the lead screw?  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


I just went out and made a quick measurement.  That looks like it would fit my Logan 400.


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## bama7 (Jan 14, 2016)

Hopefully within a few days I will get the different, and correct maybe, thread dial.  In the mean time I will look for other possible causes.


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## eeler1 (Jan 14, 2016)

Gotta love these old machines.  Did that dial come with the lathe or bought later?  Never know what a prior owner did or had in mind.  My Logan 9B (9") didn't have a thread dial, so  I picked up and tried an Atlas thread dial but it didn't fit.  I ended up getting the right Logan dial  on eBay, but the  Atlas dial is still in the tooling drawer for that lathe.  I figure that if somehow the Logan dial gets misplaced, some future owner will be stumped trying to figure out how to make the Atlas dial fit the lathe.

Hang in there, the 200 is a sweet little machine when all set up and running properly.  And you'll know it inside and out.


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## bama7 (Jan 15, 2016)

eeler1 said:


> Gotta love these old machines.  Did that dial come with the lathe or bought later?  Never know what a prior owner did or had in mind.  My Logan 9B (9") didn't have a thread dial, so  I picked up and tried an Atlas thread dial but it didn't fit.  I ended up getting the right Logan dial  on eBay, but the  Atlas dial is still in the tooling drawer for that lathe.  I figure that if somehow the Logan dial gets misplaced, some future owner will be stumped trying to figure out how to make the Atlas dial fit the lathe.
> 
> Hang in there, the 200 is a sweet little machine when all set up and running properly.  And you'll know it inside and out.



The dial was on the machine when I got it.  I did not try it when I first saw the lathe.  The guy I got it from probably knew about as much about a lathe as I did then.  Thankfully I am slowly learning.  Someone had mentioned tapping a hole and remounting the dial.  Rather than modifying the housing I would make a bracket that mounted to the housing and mount the dial at the other end of the bracket to lower the dial on the lead screw.  If that didn't work my housing would still be original.


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## Terrywerm (Jan 17, 2016)

Bama, the thread chasing dial that you have there is definitely not the correct one for a Logan 200. The teeth of the gear on a correct thread chasing dial would engage the front of the lead screw rather than the top of it.  Rich's photo is a perfect example.


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## bama7 (Jan 17, 2016)

terrywerm said:


> Bama, the thread chasing dial that you have there is definitely not the correct one for a Logan 200. The teeth of the gear on a correct thread chasing dial would engage the front of the lead screw rather than the top of it.  Rich's photo is a perfect example.


                                                                     I agree with everything you said.  I bought one from a guy on the yahoo site and it should be here Tuesday.  I found a couple of things I had not done correctly so I fixed those.  The lathe seems to be working as it should now.  That makes me very happy.  I am really looking forward to testing the new dial.


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## bama7 (Jan 19, 2016)

I GOT MY THREAD DIAL TODAY!  The gear rests just where it should, I think.  Now for a question.  I push and lock the dial to the lead screw, I engage the lead screw and the dial turns.  When I engage the half nut the carriage travels, but the dial stops turning.  Is this normal?


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## John Hasler (Jan 19, 2016)

bama7 said:


> I GOT MY THREAD DIAL TODAY!  The gear rests just where it should, I think.  Now for a question.  I push and lock the dial to the lead screw, I engage the lead screw and the dial turns.  When I engage the half nut the carriage travels, but the dial stops turning.  Is this normal?


That is exactly what should happen.


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## bama7 (Jan 19, 2016)

John Hasler said:


> That is exactly what should happen.



PRAISE THE LORD!  I really needed to hear that.  Thanks for the reply.


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## Steve Shannon (Jan 19, 2016)

bama7 said:


> I GOT MY THREAD DIAL TODAY!  The gear rests just where it should, I think.  Now for a question.  I push and lock the dial to the lead screw, I engage the lead screw and the dial turns.  When I engage the half nut the carriage travels, but the dial stops turning.  Is this normal?


Yes.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## brino (Jan 19, 2016)

bama7 said:


> Is this normal



Yes, that's perfect.
The idea is to engage it at exactly the right number (or set of numbers) based on the screw thread you are cutting.
Personally I never remember the rules about any even number for a certain thread(or was it odd numbered?), except for February that has 28...yada..yada

I just use the exact same number every time I start a pass that I used for the first pass.
If I remembered that stuff I'd likely forget my wife's birthday, then I'd really be in trouble!

-brino


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## eeler1 (Jan 19, 2016)

Yup, that's how they're sposed to work.  The dial is keeping up with the lead screw, so not turning.  Wonder what that former dial was from?


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## John Hasler (Jan 19, 2016)

eeler1 said:


> Wonder what that former dial was from?


The length looks right for a Logan 400.


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## bama7 (Jan 19, 2016)

John Hasler said:


> The length looks right for a Logan 400.


Anybody in need of one?


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## 47convertible (Feb 2, 2016)

I think its normal. That's what my 10" Logan/MW does.  I'm a newbie to machining and have learned a ton on this site.  One thing learned was Never run the motor in reverse if it will make the chuck reverse direction as well. On our lathes the chuck is just threaded onto the spindle and putting it in reverse can/will cause the spindle to dismount and create mayhem wherever it chooses to go.  
If you want to change the direction of the carriage feed the gear shift on the left end (as you face to operate it) has three positions--forward, neutral, reverse. Moving that gear shift will change the direction of carriage travel as well as the direction of the power cross feed if your lathe has that feature. 
Jerry


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## Chuck K (Feb 6, 2016)

Jerry, you can absolutely run a lathe with a threaded spindle in reverse. You just have to use common sense.  You probably don't want to do interrupted cuts in reverse.  If you really felt apprehensive about it you could set it up with a live center in your tailstock to keep the chuck from coming off.


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