# Chance to buy a South Bend Lathe



## ChuckB

Have a chance, although times running out, to purchase a heavy 10 like the one shown in the picture. Found this picture on the web. Appears to be the same model, but the one I am looking at is much shorter.





Now realize SB lathes dont come along too often down here in South Florida. The lathe belonged to the guys dad and has been sitting for a number of years. His dad took the headstock spindle out for some unknown reason.. most of the pieces appear to be there. The ways appear in good shape, but the cross slide has a full turn of play.. The motor runs and appears in good shape. The tooling is very minimal.. a lantern post, 3 jaw chuck, and a little more, but it does have what appears to be the taper turning tool. It is pretty dirty, but has potential. The bench is the same in the picture.

Could it be worth 700.00 ?? or should I pass?


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## ChuckB

Thanks everyone for the replies. Both point to the ways/bed as being the critical deciding point, which appear fine to me, but I am a novice.. What is the best way to tell on this South Bend if they are bad or not? 

The Guys final pirce is 750.00.. I think I will go for it, but check the ways before I pay him.


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## ChuckB

Jim B. link=topic=601.msg2913#msg2913 date=1295562026 said:
			
		

> You may want to read this:
> http://www.mermac.com/advicenew.html
> 
> But If you do PLEASE PLEASE read this also.
> 
> http://www.mermac.com/klunker2.html
> 
> Everybody whso read the first one thinks that that is the only kind of a lthe thats any good.
> Both my lathes easially fail half the tests listed in the first artical.
> They work fine and produce acceptable results.
> 
> Jim B.



Yes.. I have been to those sites before.. the first one was _exactly_ me to a tee, except I didn't back over a kids bike  When I read it after returning home with my Atlas lathe, all the blood rushed out of my face.. I thought.. "what have I done??" Luckily my deal turned out pretty good.. I just put it on craigslist today and should get my $500 back.

On my second lathe purchase, which was also an atlas, I was a little wiser, although I still went in a little anxious.. It's in pretty decent shape, but I probably paid too much. Again, down here if you don't buy it, someone else will. I will probably hang on to it for a while.

Well, today I made the deal for 750.00.. I'm looking forward to getting this one home! I will take some pictures of the journey and post them within the next week or so.. Lord, I hope I have made the right decision.. That's a lot of cash..


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## HSS

Chuck,
If you decide to go into the headstock to check the bearings, ask questions or get a book on your lathe. You can damage the bearings if done improperly. Nice find, by the way. 

Patrick


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## ChuckB

knudsen link=topic=601.msg2925#msg2925 date=1295571803 said:
			
		

> Patrick, it comes with the spindle already out. So he's going to need some help from us and/or the documentation.



No doubt about it ! Thanks for the pre-offer  

I will post some detailed photos of the spindle parts. (along with pics of everything else)

When and *if I actually get possession of the lathe, Should I continue in this thread or start a new one? (*I requested he take it off CL, but it's still listed..)


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## ChuckB

knudsen link=topic=601.msg2932#msg2932 date=1295579664 said:
			
		

> Should I continue in this thread or start a new one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either is fine, it's really up to you how you want it presented. Many of us will be happy to help however we can. A trip to FL this time of year sounds very enticing ;D
Click to expand...


I don't mean to be an a-hole, but it's currently 72 with a high of 80 tomorrow..

http://www.accuweather.com/us/fl/lo...sp?partner=accuweather&amp;traveler=0&amp;u=1

Come on down and teach me how to sharpen/shape and use HSS 

I'll tell the wifey that you are an old USMC buddy from the past, she'll give me a pass


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## ChuckB

Jim B. link=topic=601.msg2935#msg2935 date=1295581388 said:
			
		

> I will be down for a month and a half late in Feburary, around the 20th
> I will be in the Pompano Beach area.
> 
> Jim b.



Hey, I'll send you a PM


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## ChuckB

Well, I tried to send you a PM.. I forgot that that function doesn't work for me.. some kind of glitch. Here is my email address: clbyrd1954ATcomcast.net


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## ChuckB

I haven't picked it up yet. The guy is never home and doesn't answer his cell phone, but he did finally call me back and I'm suppose to pick it up on Sunday after two.

The good thing is that I have had more time to bone up on the 10L, such as how to make sure it is a heavy 10 (easiest way it seems, is to look at the apron, half nut lever, and ways width), what worn ways look like and to read about the overall desirability expressed by owners of this model.

I should have taken pictures when I looked at it, but i'm pretty sure, though not positive, that this is an older version with the single front tumbler, verses the newer model with the right and left front tumblers. I realize that there is a less of a range of threading speeds, but should I be concerened with the vintage of this 10L ?

Looking at the manuals posted by ntimken It appears that some pieces are missing from the head stock..Including the large and small covers and also the tapering attachment is missing a majority of parts. It also comes with very basic tooling.. Taking into consideration my location, is the $750 he wants too much? I have searched Craigslist and am yet to find a 10L for sale for under 2K in the whole state..


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## ChuckB

Jim B. link=topic=601.msg2992#msg2992 date=1295714378 said:
			
		

> ChuckB link=topic=601.msg2983#msg2983 date=1295709389 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I should have taken pictures when I looked at it, but i'm pretty sure, though not positive, that this is an older version with the single large front tumbler, with a small lever on the left side verses the newer model with the right and left front tumblers. I realize that there is a less of a range of threading speeds, but should I be concerened with the vintage of this 10L ?
> 
> Looking at the manuals posted by ntimken It appears that some pieces are missing from the head stock..Including the large and small covers and also the tapering attachment is missing a majority of parts. It also comes with very basic tooling.. Taking into consideration my location, is the $750 he wants too much? I have searched Craigslist and am yet to find a 10L for sale for under 2K in the whole state..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The move from the single tumbler gearbox to the double toumbler on by SB was a cost reduction move. It did not necessarally produce a better machine.
> Yes there are "Wide Range" gearboxes, but this was a later offering and was, I believe, a special order, so not all SB10L's have the wide range gearbox.
> There is a feature on the single tumbler that I like a lot and which is not available on the double tumbler.
> The top lever may be shifted, under power , from the leftmost position to the right most position. This allows you to go from a "roughing" feed to a Finishing feed with almost no effort.
> 
> These lathes are very top heavy. A lot of newbe's loose them and wind up brealiing parts. You need several people to steady this machine while loading it. I would reccomend a rental trailer.
> 
> As to the price.
> Even without a taper attachment its a fair price,DEPENDING on what is missing from the headstock.
> Also be carefull there is a 10R which is identical except for a small bore spindle. These are less desirable. The spindle can be swapped out however. More money.
> 
> 
> Jim B.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the info. More good news for me 

I will check the hole size.. from what I have read: "15/16" OD on one end and 1 5/16 on the other end" , right?

The one I am trying to get is mounted on the bench with the curved legs, so it is probably not as top heavy as the type in the picture that has the pedestal/leg, but I will make sure it is strapped down. Thanks.


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## ChuckB

I misread the quote :-[ .. what actually was said:

" _Make a "gauge" 15/16" OD on one end and 1 5/16" OD on the other end. If one of those does not fit in the spindle bore, it isn't a "heavy ten"._ "

Which means it's 1 3/8 just like you said..

Too bad you are still up north and not in Pompano.. You could look at it and give me your opinion before I buy it tomorrow.


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## ChuckB

Is there a chance someone could send me their PH# in case I have a critical question when I am looking at/picking up the lathe tomorrow (Sunday, 1/22/10) ?


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## ChuckB

Thanks Jim and Dave... Hopefully I wont have to call either of you. 

It's good to have knowledgable people if the need arises though.


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## ChuckB

knudsen link=topic=601.msg3099#msg3099 date=1295826031 said:
			
		

> Got her home yet Chuck? I'm excited for you. You will have loads of fun with it, I'm sure.



Got it home!!!! Better than I remembered!!! So much adrenaline I unloaded it by myself!!


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## ChuckB

chengdave2003 link=topic=601.msg3109#msg3109 date=1295834358 said:
			
		

> Chuck - Ya gotta tell us more....and PICTURES!!!!!!
> 
> Dave


Tomorrow.. just got home.. unloading, unwinding, cleaning up.

It will be worth waiting for ;D


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## ChuckB

Tim, who I got it from and the lathe in his garage:















Taken whe I got it home:















































Included in the deal:


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## ChuckB

Yes.. I will start restoring it..

Found this in a Nov 1948 Popular Mechanics:


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## ChuckB

Ahh you don't have to do that Dave, but I do wear a large 

Did I mention that I have a hangover?? 8)


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## HSS

Great find Chuck. I see the spindle bearings in the chip pan but I don't see the bearing expanders. Have you seen them anywhere in there?

Patrick


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## ChuckB

I went out to the garage and tried to see what I am missing.


As far as I can see I am missing two allen bolts.. should be easy to replace. The little felt pieces on the bearing expanders need to be replaced.




I don't know if this is complete:




I can see I am missing the other half of this for the collet closer:


Anything else?:



Does anyone know what this is? :




This is all of the small pieces that came with the lathe..


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## klschepler

Chuck -

Looks look you did really good. Considering all you got there, $750 is definately a great buy. It is a 10L (Heavy 10) with what looks to be a single phase motor. Catalog Number 8187ZS is the toolroom model with taper attachment. The "Z" tells us 3-1/2 foot bed. I do not know what the "S" means but it could indicate special order as you have the handlever collet attachment in lieu of the handwheel collet attachment which was standard for the toolroom model. I do not see the collet rack which would also have come with the toolroom model nor do I see the steady rest and follower rest. I do see the micrometer carriage stop, spindle nose thread protector, collet sleeve, faceplate, and three jaw chuck. From what I can see the gears appear to be in excellent condition. I could not see the bed well enough to see the condition of the ways. You do have some work to do in cleaning up this machine and getting it into running condition but it is going to be a real nice machine when you finally get it all together! 

I do not know what the unidentified part is. The piece you are missing, one half of the yoke segment, for the handlever collet attachment may be a little difficult to find without buying the whole attachment. But, there are always handlever collet attachments out there not in the best of shape which may work as a doner for that part.

- Kent


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## ChuckB

klschepler link=topic=601.msg3191#msg3191 date=1295991815 said:
			
		

> Chuck -
> 
> Looks look you did really good. Considering all you got there, $750 is definately a great buy. It is a 10L (Heavy 10) with what looks to be a single phase motor. Catalog Number 8187ZS is the toolroom model with taper attachment. The "Z" tells us 3-1/2 foot bed. I do not know what the "S" means but it could indicate special order as you have the handlever collet attachment in lieu of the handwheel collet attachment which was standard for the toolroom model. I do not see the collet rack which would also have come with the toolroom model nor do I see the steady rest and follower rest. I do see the micrometer carriage stop, spindle nose thread protector, collet sleeve, faceplate, and three jaw chuck. From what I can see the gears appear to be in excellent condition. I could not see the bed well enough to see the condition of the ways. You do have some work to do in cleaning up this machine and getting it into running condition but it is going to be a real nice machine when you finally get it all together!
> 
> I do not know what the unidentified part is. The piece you are missing, one half of the yoke segment, for the handlever collet attachment may be a little difficult to find without buying the whole attachment. But, there are always handlever collet attachments out there not in the best of shape which may work as a doner for that part.
> 
> - Kent



Thanks Kent and welcome to the Forum!

Yes, I am quite happy that I finally made the deal and feel lucky to have ran across it. I am excited about restoring it and am looking forward to the day when it's done. I am still debating the paint.. either Benjamin Moore or Spray Rustolem High Performance paint.. I think the latter is less likely to chip.

I should have taken a close-up of the ways, that look very good to me, based on my limited knowledge. I will do so the next chance I get.

I realize now that the unidentified part goes to something else.. it is made of cast aluminum.. The PO is probably missing a part to something of his. I think I will send him a picture of it and ask him if he needs it.Speaking of which, I have emailed him with a picture of the sleeve and he assured me if he finds it he will let me know. When I bought the lathe, he told me that if he finds anything else that belongs to it, he will contact me.





			
				chengdave2003 link=topic=601.msg3193#msg3193 date=1295992841 said:
			
		

> I'm just wondering how hard it would be to make that collet closer part? Something tells me that it's brass, but I could be wrong. You'd make the basic piece using the old piece for external dimensions and rough internal dimension. Then drill the holes, split the collar and tap one half with whatever threads it takes (anyone know?), and the other half with clearance/countersunk holes in the other. Screw together and rebore it to the correct internal dimension.
> 
> Does the Heavy 10 use the fiber thrust washer on the left hand side of the left bearing support? Can it use a similar upgrade to the 9"/10K spindle thrust bearing by installing a needle thrust bearing? It would allow zero axial clearance that is not possible with the fiber thrust bearing....
> 
> Just thinking out loud.
> 
> Dave



Yes I was thinking about trying to making one.... the two halves(#19) lock together with two pins(#29) and there is an indent on each half 180 degrees apart that the lever screws(#2 & 26) with rounded tips go into.. it is basically a bushing.. there is an oiler for it on the top lever screw. I'm not too worried about it.. Maybe the PO, Tim, might find it.. I did find the bracket stud for the lever screwed in the headstock casting..




As far as thrust bearings, look at my picture of the spindle shaft..those go on the left side of the headstock.. is that what you're talking about?


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## ChuckB

chengdave2003 link=topic=601.msg3214#msg3214 date=1296005402 said:
			
		

> Hey Chuck,
> 
> No, those go to the right of the left spindle housing. The one I think it is that you're showing is between the take-up nut and the ball thrust bearing...the whitish/grayish part...goes to the left on the left spindle housing...
> 
> Dave



I'm confused.. (easily happens!!) Here is my spindle shaft and housing.. tell me which# you're talking about..


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## ChuckB

56 is the flat washer shown in my picture, 57 is the three piece thrust washer shown in the picture (two races and bearing) The ten inch lathe doesn't use 58.


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## ChuckB

chengdave2003 link=topic=601.msg3221#msg3221 date=1296009804 said:
			
		

> And #56 goes to the left of the left bearing spindle housing right? Between the take up nut and the housing? That's a solid thrust bearing on a 9"....it's replaced with a three piece needle thrust bearing....



It looks like in this picture that #56, which is a flat washer, goes on the inside of the housing, just left of the 3 piece thrust bearing. Maybe someone will come along and verify that.

(The spindle reverse gear, #53, that I have is wider than the one in this picture, because mine is meant to be used with a handlever collet. I think that some people don't realize that there's two different reverse gears and complain that their draw bar is too long)


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## ChuckB

Thought I would post some progress on the restore.. To me, the biggest "pain" is getting the bench painted, so I am getting it over with, also I figured if I did this first, I would have something to build on.

I plan on using POR-15 rust paint topped with their 2 part Hardnose Paint.. I painted a couple of Harley frames this way and the stuff is rock hard.. Haven't decided on light gray or dark gray yet.. any thoughts?




















The bare metal will be etched before painting.

That's about all I got done. I did make an Electrolysis setup to clean the smaller parts:


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## ChuckB

chengdave2003 link=topic=601.msg4023#msg4023 date=1297049655 said:
			
		

> Your electrolysis setup is very innovative! I've not seen it done that way....



I thought it was unique, then I saw one just like it on the web


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## ChuckB

Here is a update on the lathe.

I just got finished painting most of the bench.. The paint I used is deadly.. It is rock hard when it dries though. I coated the treated bare metal with POR-15 and then top coated that with the 2 part hard nose paint. It will be scratch and chip proof when it dries.. Here it is:













Till next time..


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## ChuckB

Moving on to the motor and underdrive




The cloth insulation was cracked in some place, so I repaired much of it as I could. 
I also made a new insulation plate for the centrifigal switch because the original
was cracked






 The motor ran fine in both directions after a test run.





The underdrive spins very quiet and smoothly, so I decide not to disassemble it. 
Is this a mistake? The bearings are sealed.







I still need to clean up the pulleys.



until next time


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## HMF

Chuck,

From what little I know, that underdrive is a b&amp;^%# to get apart. If it moves nicely, you were right to leave it. Everything is looking good!

Nelson


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## ChuckB

Putting the bench back together.. best method is to stand it up on it's end. Man.. those parts are heavy..








I plan on painting the handle with the tough hard nose paint. I used Rustoleum High Performance Paint for inside the cabinet parts.




No more work on the lathe this week.. Took a week off for Daytona Bikeweek and since my Evo Tour Glide is in pieces. I have to make it up there on my Shovelhead. Wish me Luck!!




Till next time


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## gary.h

nice job on the lathe chuck,what a fine machine,your probably already gone on your trip, but good journeys to you anyways..


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## ChuckB

Thanks Gary.. Yes I had a great time in Daytona.

Here is a link about my trip posted in the Shovelhead forum: http://shovelhead.us/forum/showthread.php?t=79025

Haven't worked on the lathe lately. I am concentrating my efforts on getting my Tourglide back together.


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## AR1911

Buy one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rebuild-Book-Ki...pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&amp;hash=item25615ac63b

First-class book, and all the felt wicks and seals in one package.

Book is available separately.


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## ChuckB

Yes, I saw that. Been thinking about getting the book. I bought the wick kit already. Thanks


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## AR1911

I have read most of mine on the 9inch
There were several things that I would have got in trouble with, and I've rebuilt several lathes.
He talks you around the gotchas. For $25? it's a bargain. I wish he would write them for my other machines, I'd buy them all


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## ChuckB

$25.00 ? wow.. I think the price went down a little.  Only thing I don't like about it is that it doesn't show the single tumbler 10L, although after talking to the guy he indicated that they are very similar.


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## ChuckB

Been a long time since I worked on this, but I am modivated again, thanks to  *woodtickgreg*'s thread of his 10L restore.  I have done some more assemblies and will be posting some pictures of my progress soon.  Need to find my camera and get some batteries. )


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## ChuckB

Here is what I have got done recently. No pictures of the process, but what I do is mildly clean the machined areas with 2000 grit sand paper and WD-40, degrease all parts with mineral spirits, blow dry, tape off machined areas with foil tape, sand blast, blow off, clean with acetone.. let dry and then paint. The shiny pieces were done in a buffing wheel in my bench grinder.  I am using Rust-Oleum High Performance Enamel #7587, Dark Machine Gray in the spray can.  Can't say this is a labor of love.. a lot of work. I want to get this baby up and running!! )















Got a ways to go (no pun intended..) but if I keep at it, and don't slack off,  maybe it will be done in a couple months or so.


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## Splat

Looking good Chuck! I'm slowly getting my Heavy 10 done. It's a satisfying experience. You'll be a proud papa when she's done.


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## ChuckB

Thanks Splat. It's only been 2 years ) Keep an eye on me and don't let me slack off!


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## Splat

ChuckB said:


> Thanks Splat. It's only been 2 years ) Keep an eye on me and don't let me slack off!



Well ya got me beat.   I found my H10 last summer and started rebuilding her but then life got in the way and I had to stop on the lathe for a while. I just got started on her a few weeks ago and it feels damn good. Maybe we keep an eye on each other so we don't slack off (again)?


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## ChuckB

It's a deal.. )  Post the link to your rebuild thread.. I saw it the other day but I can't find it again.


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## Splat

*Here'tis*.   It wasn't intended as a rebuild thread by why the heck not. I need to start taking more pics. :thinking:


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## woodtickgreg

I just found this thread and read the whole thing, what a great find, I would have bought it too! I will be following this now and if I can be of any help I'll jump in. You already have her looking good! I love to watch other guys machines come together. Nice work.


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## ChuckB

I finally finished the crossfeed/taper attachment. The cross feed has about a half a turn of play. I plan on getting a new crossfeed nut and see if that helps. 







I noticed in the parts manual that it shows that some 10" models had thrust bearings on the crossfeed screw. Mine doesn't, but I am not sure if they are missing, because another manual indicated that some models had them and some didn't.  It shows 2 different length cross feed screw sleeves located in the taper attachment. I assume if I have the longer cross feed screw sleeve, it came with no thrust bearings. Does anyone know the 2 different lengths of the sleeves ?

The reason I'm concerned is if you look at the above picture, the sleeve seems to stick out to far of the taper attachament.. or maybe this is normal??

 Here are the two different pages from each manual. 

Item 18 or 21:





Item 11 and 12 show the bearings in question:


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## fastback

Nice job on the rebuild Chuck.  I remember a while back on another site that you mentioned that you were looking for the 10L.  Looks like you got a good one.


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## ChuckB

More progress.. Sandblasted and painted the apron. 
I initally soaked it in Vapo-Rust a couple days to get all the rust off the interior. Then stuffed paper inside to keep the sand out before blasting. Protected the machined areas with foil tape, which is a ***** to remove, but worth the trouble. 
Does anyone know how to install the two long oil cups, located at the top, without damaging them?


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## Uncle Buck

Man you are doing a great job on that. Thank you for sharing, it looks BEAUTIFUL!


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## george wilson

If the V ways are worn,especially the front one,there will be a little vertical "cliff" at the top of the way. You can catch it with your finger nail. The cliff will be most significant of the side of the V that faces the chuck. This happens because on the lathe's carriage,where the V's are machined(on the carriage) there are keyway like grooves cut into the female V's so that the tops of the V's on the lathe bed do not touch anything on their tops. Therefore,as the bed wears,the beds' V's will begin to go up into the keyways on the carriage.

The more severe the wear is,the more pronounced these "cliffs" will be. Ultimately,when you get the lathe back together,turn a metal bar several inches long,supported at the outboard end by the tailstock. Make the last cuts very light. Measure up and down this metal bar. If the lathe is worn a lot,the metal test bar will be shaped like a wooden barrel: It will be larger in the center than it is at both ends. You can make a lot of short parts just fine,but will have to resort to carefully filing longer bars while they rotate,to make them acceptably parallel. The only real cure is to have the bed re ground,or re scraped.


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## ChuckB

Here's  a picture of my ways so they can be evaluated.. they have some chuck damage and pitting, but no detectable ridges.  They appear to be in fair shape in my eyes, but I might be wrong.




- - - Updated - - -



Uncle Buck said:


> Man you are doing a great job on that. Thank you for sharing, it looks BEAUTIFUL!



Coming from you Buck, that means a lot !


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## ChuckB




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## woodtickgreg

Nice work, watching you working on your lathe reminds me of when I did mine, it was a fun project. seeing what you are doing makes me want to do another one, if I only had the time. Keep posting pics, I am enjoying this.


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## ChuckB

Thanks Greg, After seeing your restore, I guess I started feeling a little guilty.. this fine old machine just sitting in the corner being neglected. I have another lathe, an Atlas commercial 12/36 that I have been using, so this one got ignored. I can honestly say that you modivated me!

Now, do you have a '50 Chevy Pickup that you can start restoring ? I need more guilt. Mine has been sitting in the garage in pieces since 1991 !! :biggrin:


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## ChuckB

As far as getting the oil cups in, the restore book suggested to use inner tube rubber, but electrical tape worked better for me to get my new OEM oilers in. I was parinoid that I would bugger them up. Locked the vise grips medium tight and gave 'em a hard rap. Took a couple of tries and I put some aluminum between the vise grips and the apron so I wouldn't mess up the paint job, as it did slip.. two or three tries and they went in. Used some sealer to avoid leakage. I did turn the edges down at to get them started. Put in the opitional oiler on the hand wheel too.








I knew there was a reason for not taking the Christmas lights down, but I didn't realize it at the time.. Westerly sun giving off some good heat!


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## woodtickgreg

Nice! Don't you love it when a plan comes together!


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## Uncle Buck

I am really looking forward to seeing this machine done. I love watching old machines come back to life like this too!


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## woodtickgreg

ChuckB said:


> Thanks Greg, After seeing your restore, I guess I started feeling a little guilty.. this fine old machine just sitting in the corner being neglected. I have another lathe, an Atlas commercial 12/36 that I have been using, so this one got ignored. I can honestly say that you modivated me!
> 
> Now, do you have a '50 Chevy Pickup that you can start restoring ? I need more guilt. Mine has been sitting in the garage in pieces since 1991 !! :biggrin:



No I don't have a chevy but I did just score a burke #4 horizontal mill with vertical milling attachment.


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## ChuckB

woodtickgreg said:


> No I don't have a chevy but I did just score a burke #4 horizontal mill with vertical milling attachment.



Yes, I read that in another thread  I expect pictures will be coming along soon..


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## woodtickgreg

ChuckB said:


> Yes, I read that in another thread  I expect pictures will be coming along soon..



Uhm......yup, I found the craigslist posting for it, let me see if I can get the pics to post here. I won't have it home till next week.


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## rw1

Nice work going on there Chuck!

I was able to "hand twist" the long oil cups into the Apron casting.....just keep working it.  Some needle nose pliers lightly squeezed will also work.


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## ChuckB

woodtickgreg said:


> Uhm......yup, I found the craigslist posting for it, let me see if I can get the pics to post here. I won't have it home till next week.



Decent craiglist finds can be rewarding.. found last week:


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## woodtickgreg

I found a delta band saw on craigslist a couple of years ago with a riser block for a 12" resaw capacity and an enclosed stand. It's a great addition to my wood shop.


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## ChuckB

woodtickgreg said:


> I found a delta band saw on craigslist a couple of years ago with a riser block for a 12" resaw capacity and an enclosed stand. It's a great addition to my wood shop.



I rarely do wood.. but if my garage was bigger, I would leave it for wood and try to find a metal saw.. a horizontal model would be nice.  I would love to set it up for metal. A very old 40's Power King. Started an indirect thread HERE about it. Hard to find good old machinery in South Florida. I have been lucky.


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## ChuckB

Getting the apron back together and I have a question..

I am a little confused about the route of the long wick that runs under the clutch asy. 

The book doesn't make it real clear.

Is this the right routing?


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## Splat

Yes, that is correct. Ensure the wicks are in their grooves in the walls before you slip the bearings back into place.  I would cut about 3/16" off the ends of those hanging wick ends, as per what the book says IIRC, but otherwise you've done it right.  One thing you might want to do is tighten up the clutch so the plates don't come out of place from their slots. That happened to me but tightening the clutch up prevents that while you're moving the apron around.


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## ChuckB

Thanks .  I overlooked a section in the book that makes it clear


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## Splat

That wick  isn't tied to anything on either end, though I guess it couldn't hurt as long as it doesn't interfere with the other gears.


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## woodtickgreg

ChuckB said:


> I just made a single knot on the end that went in the oil sump to maximize the length and when I run it this way it is too short unless I do some stretching..
> 
> This doesn't seem right.. does it?
> 
> Geezz.. I would have paid the extra dollar for the wick being a little longer..


Lets see if I remember this right. The wick doesn't get tied off in the oil sump the way you have it routed on the right of the picture. The ends of the wicks will get trimmed flush before you put the worm collars on. the loop that hangs down below the clutch assy is what picks up the oil and wicks it to the worm.


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## ChuckB

Let me check in the book again..


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## Splat

I just checked my Heavy 10 rebuild book and that wick is not tied off on either end.


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## ChuckB

Yes.. I think Im back on track (for now) thanks!


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## Splat

Glad to help. It's looking good, Chuck! She'll be looking shnazzy when she's all done.


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## ChuckB

Well, with your help, I got the wicks figued out and finally finished the apron/cross slide/taper attachment.
















Notice something missing?? One of the few things that was missing when I got this lathe.









Put it together.. dang, this sucker is heavy!





Need I say "before" ?? 



Pretty much complete, but I have to make some shoes for all the gib locking set screws.. Plan on continuing soon on another assembly.


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## ChuckB

No painting, but I cleaned up some stuff. I used Evaporust.


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## woodtickgreg

I never used evaporust, but dang that stuff is awesome.


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## woodtickgreg

As far as what's missing? My guess is the screw for the star clutch knob?


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## ChuckB

woodtickgreg said:


> As far as what's missing? My guess is the screw for the star clutch knob?



ha! ha! I guess that was pretty obvious


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## MikeH

Man you are doing some great work on that. Thank you for sharing, it is beautiful!
Are you sandblasting all of the old paint off of the parts other than the cabinet, stripping it, or sanding and painting over?


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## ChuckB

MikeH said:


> Man you are doing some great work on that. Thank you for sharing, it is beautiful!
> Are you sandblasting all of the old paint off of the parts other than the cabinet, stripping it, or sanding and painting over?



Thanks Mike. After taping with foil tape the machined surfaces, I have been bead blasting all the parts and painting each one as soon as I am done to make sure the surface is as clean as can be. The bead blasting provides a rough surface for the paint to adear to. I make sure to use acetone before painting to ensure no moisture or grease.


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## ChuckB

A little progress.. well kind of.. I bought this collet rack with some collets, but turned out to be the wrong size. This is a 4C and as everyone knows, the 10L uses a 5C. I got it for a decent price, so I figured I would clean it up and relist and probably get enough to buy the right one.


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## woodtickgreg

Nice, looks like new! Good Job, that should bring a few more dollars.


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## Timehunter

Great looking!
What did you do about the missing star knob screw?
I have a 13" and missing mine but have been running it for several years now after rebuild and no problem........But it's always in the back of my mind bugging me.......
I also was missing a few balls in the thrust bearings and had to divide between the two!!
You gotta run what you brung sometimes!


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## ChuckB

Timehunter said:


> Great looking!
> What did you do about the missing star knob screw?
> I have a 13" and missing mine but have been running it for several years now after rebuild and no problem........But it's always in the back of my mind bugging me.......
> I also was missing a few balls in the thrust bearings and had to divide between the two!!
> You gotta run what you brung sometimes!



I was going to buy one from Ted (latheman2@aol.com) 10.00 plus shipping, but seems he is mad at me for asking too many questions and wanting seperate pricing for 400.00 worth of tooling. Oh well.. he's not the only game in town.


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## LW Hiway

Chuck, all that hard work is paying off really well. Very nice looking parts going together there.


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## ChuckB

LW Hiway said:


> Chuck, all that hard work is paying off really well. Very nice looking parts going together there.



Thank you and welcome to the forum.

Projects on hold for a while. I took a couple days off from work to be around for my wife, who had knee surgery. On the way home from the surgery I stopped to get her meds and while returing to the vehicle, I fell in the parking lot and broke my knee cap... Turned around and went back to the same doctor, now I need surgery and will miss even more work. :angry:


ahh.. the ironies of life..


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## woodtickgreg

ChuckB said:


> ahh.. the ironies of life..



Well said. I hope your both up and about soon. Take care of each other and get well soon.


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## Timehunter

Dadgummitttttt!!!!
Sometimes when it rains it pours!!!

Get Well Soon!!!!!


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## itsme_Bernie

That's terrible Chuck!!  
Ugh!

Bernie


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## ChuckB

Thanks guys. I have an appointment this morning. I will learn my fate.


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## dgrennan74

i like the shovel   what  year    74        i also have 1947  heavy 10


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## ChuckB

dgrennan74 said:


> i like the shovel   what  year    74        i also have 1947  heavy 10



Close.. that is a '73


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## ChuckB

Yes, I'm still out here! After a long lapse, I am moving forward with the restore. 


Here are a few pictures of my latest progress.


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## woodtickgreg

Good to see you back at it. I know how it is, life gets in the way sometimes.


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## ChuckB

Finishing up on the headstock:







Preserved by sawdust and grease!




Cleaned up nice. Instead of disassembling and bead blasting I think I wil leave the gears alone and strip the paint off by other means.




This lathe is in very good shape. I was lucky that the PO only used it for wood work. Disassembly was easy.. all the pins tapped right out .


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## jer

Lookin really good Chuck.


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## woodtickgreg

The gearbox cleaned up pretty good considering you didn't take it apart. It really isn't that hard to do if you have the rebuild book, will be way easier now that it is clean. I took mine completely apart so that I could replace all the felts and it allowed me to inspect the shafts while it was apart.


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## ChuckB

woodtickgreg said:


> I took mine completely apart so that I could replace all the felts and it allowed me to inspect the shafts while it was apart.



Yes, after I posted, I was thinking about the felts.. Guess I will be taking it apart.


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## dlane

Good , get the wood out, new felts, oil ,


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## ChuckB

Decided to get the painting of the bed over with. I had done one before and knew I was in for a lot of work.



Degreased with mineral spirits and simple green and after wiping off with acetone, used foil tape to protect the machined areas while sandblasting:






Most of the sandblasting done. Needed one more pass:





After sandblasting, I blew it off and sprayed acetone on as an added means of making sure the surface is clean (see refillable spray can in picture).  Sitting a 5 gallon bucket underneath catches the run off and the acetone can be reused.



Used Rustoleum High performance paint in the spray can. Excellent paint. I have had good results not using primer on other projects. The paint really adheres well to the clean, sandblasted surface. The one time I used primer on a vice, the topcoat didn't stick well.




The foil tape is great at protecting the machine surfaces, but it sure takes a lot of time to peel it off!
Rolled it in the garage and spent over an hour doing removing it.



Most of the other parts are ready to install, but I need to blow them off and clean with WD-40 to get all the dust off. They have been sitting for quite a while:



Took most of the day, but I am pleased with the results and can see the light at the end of the tunnel.


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## dlane

Gona be nice .


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## woodtickgreg

Looking good, love watching things like this. I used rustoleum on mine too. I have had good results with it on other projects and I will use it again. It flows out nice when brushed on as well.


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## ChuckB

Couldn't resist bolting the right leg to the bed and sliding the apron and the tailstock on. The headstock and the left leg are not bolted up. I still need to deal with the gearbox.




My ebay collet rack arrived today. I still need to paint it and clean up the collets.



Still have a ways to go.




Need to start thinking about the spindle shims. Anyone know of a good source?


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## woodtickgreg

There's a guy on ebay selling very high quality reproductions for $50. He made the tooling to stamp out the shim packs and they are as good if not better than the originals.


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## ChuckB

A little more progress. I almost got the gearbox done. Glad I took the time to rebuild it. It was actually pretty easy and straight forward.


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## ChuckB

One concern I have.. The spindle was off when I purchased this.. I don't know why.

The spindle bearings were a little damaged at the expander area. Any opinions as to if they are usable?

Both look like this:


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## woodtickgreg

In my opinion you will be needing new bearings as the are pretty damage and the expanders will not do their intended job. This is what happens when someone pulls the bearing caps and doesn't remove the screws from the expanders. Bearings are getting a little tough to find but they can be found. I think a guy parted out a 10 on ebay and the bearings may still be available.


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## ChuckB

woodtickgreg said:


> In my opinion you will be needing new bearings as the are pretty damage and the expanders will not do their intended job. This is what happens when someone pulls the bearing caps and doesn't remove the screws from the expanders. Bearings are getting a little tough to find but they can be found. I think a guy parted out a 10 on ebay and the bearings may still be available.



The only ones I see on ebay are for a 10K..


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## woodtickgreg

ChuckB said:


> The only ones I see on ebay are for a 10K..


He might have sold them,  there was a set with the expanders posted a few days ago.


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## ChuckB

woodtickgreg said:


> He might have sold them,  there was a set with the expanders posted a few days ago.



These must be the ones you are talking about. These don't look too bad, and considering the rarity.. maybe I should get them(?)


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## woodtickgreg

I think you should, if I remember right his price was reasonable. I even thought about buying them just to have as a spare in case I ever needed them. 2 years ago Grizzly, who now owns whats left of south bend was selling them for $700.00!!!


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## dlane

The eBay shim packs work good , I had to pull .004 off each pack and got it in spec. They were a little long : rubbed on thrust bearing: I ground a little off .
You need new spindle bearings as Greg states.
Chuck Did you find your take up nut ?.


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## woodtickgreg

Those bearings llok nice! You better snatched them up, they don't come along often. New used bearings, new shims, polish the spindle, and she will be good as new and run like a dream.


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## ChuckB

woodtickgreg said:


> Those bearings llok nice! You better snatched them up, they don't come along often. New used bearings, new shims, polish the spindle, and she will be good as new and run like a dream.



I went ahead and bought them. I also have the shim packs coming. I would hate to try and use my old bearings and waste the 50.00 shims. Thanks for mentioning the bearing.. I reworded my search and found them. Paid 100.00 plus about 8.00 shipping.


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## ChuckB

dlane said:


> The eBay shim packs work good , I had to pull .004 off each pack and got it in spec. They were a little long : rubbed on thrust bearing: I ground a little off .
> You need new spindle bearings as Greg states.
> Chuck Did you find your take up nut ?.



Never found the take up nut.. My garage is full of motorcycle parts and hardware and all kinds of stuff. I remember seeing it about a year ago and not realizing what it is. I stashed it away probably with some unrelated hardware..I doubt I threw it away.  I have done an extensive search a few times with no luck. I have given up. If your offer is still good, I will take you up on it. If I eventually find mine in the distant future, I will send yours back. If I could find one on ebay, I would go that route, but the only ones I see are for the 10K model.

Here is just a portion of my garage, duplicate this about 10 times and you will get the picture. No storage space left for anything.. The dimensions are about 40' X 28'.

These are older pictures when it wasn't so cluttered!


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## HMF

It's coming along nice. One day I will get mine back together...


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## ChuckB

Nels said:


> It's coming along nice. One day I will get mine back together...


 
You just got to do it.. My problem was looking at the machine and thinking how much work it's going to take.. I did this for quite a while.. then one day I just decided to paint a few small pieces, which in turn motivated me to do more.. pretty soon I was back into it. If you can do a little every week or month, it will pay off and before you know it, you are on the road to completion.


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## ChuckB

Making progress.. I finally got everything painted.












Getting to what probably is the most difficult part.. shimming the spindle. I might need ya'lls help!


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## FOMOGO

She's really looking good, you've come a long way. Mike


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## woodtickgreg

Did you get the rebuild book? It was very helpful to me when I set my spindle. You might look in my thread of my rebuild. I think I posted pics of the indicator set up. Remember it should turn freely by hand and should not get hot when running.


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## ChuckB

woodtickgreg said:


> Did you get the rebuild book? It was very helpful to me when I set my spindle. You might look in my thread of my rebuild. I think I posted pics of the indicator set up. Remember it should turn freely by hand and should not get hot when running.



Got the missing bearing cap allen bolts from the hardware store today. Amazingly, other than the clutch knob screw, these were the only parts missing from the lathe when I bought it slightly disassembled, although I misplace the take up nut but was able to get one from the ebay seller who sold me the used bearings.   I couldn't wait to snug everything down to see where I was at. Not surprising, an excessive amount of up and down play on both ends due to the new laminated shim set. Although it turned fairly easy, it felt a little grabby.. You would think with that much play, that wouldn't be the case, but then again, these are not the original bearings. Maybe they need to break in to the different spindle.  I'm so tired from staying up , I abandoned it for the night and came back into the house. Sometime you need to walk away. I obviously need to check the play with a dial indicator and see how many layers I need to remove. Also I need to read up on the process. My South Bend CE3458 parts manual has a great section on spindle assembly and adjustment, with some nice drawn pictures.  Greg, I plan on looking at your restore thread for some additional tips.


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## John C

ChuckB said:


> You just got to do it.. My problem was looking at the machine and thinking how much work it's going to take.. I did this for quite a while.. then one day I just decided to paint a few small pieces, which in turn motivated me to do more.. pretty soon I was back into it. If you can do a little every week or month, it will pay off and before you know it, you are on the road to completion.



A little over a year ago I swapped out the automatic trans in my 88' F250 for a manual. Bought the manual trans and all components for the swap from a kid downstate. After we got it all in the back of my Jeep, I said "I'm not really looking forward to this. It's gonna be a TON of work." His buddy said -- "One bolt at a time." I kept repeating that to myself. It really helped.  Turns out that transmission swap was much easier than rebuilding a 70 year old lathe. But I'm taking it one bolt at a time.


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## John C

Be very careful to follow the proper sequence for tightening / loosening the cap screws and expander screws while adjusting the shims. Get out of sequence once and you might damage the bearings. I'm too new at this myself to feel comfortable describing it to you, but I'm sure someone here can. The rebuild book describes the process. Turn off the radio, turn off your phone, lock the door to the shop, and be prepared to devote several hours to the job. On the bright side, you should only ever need to do this once.


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## woodtickgreg

I had to run a brake cylinder hone through my bearings to remove some galling that I didn't not like and to make them perfectly round again. Then I polished them up and polished the spindle. It turns smooth as glass. 
To hone the bearings I installed them with the caps and turned the hone by hand, just enough to remove the scratches and make contact all the way around.


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## ChuckB

John C said:


> Be very careful to follow the proper sequence for tightening / loosening the cap screws and expander screws while adjusting the shims. Get out of sequence once and you might damage the bearings. I'm too new at this myself to feel comfortable describing it to you, but I'm sure someone here can. The rebuild book describes the process. Turn off the radio, turn off your phone, lock the door to the shop, and be prepared to devote several hours to the job. On the bright side, you should only ever need to do this once.



Yes, I will take my time.. it's only been 5 years, why rush it now at a most critical step? My South Bend CE3458 parts manual told me about all I need to know.



woodtickgreg said:


> I had to run a brake cylinder hone through my bearings to remove some galling that I didn't not like and to make them perfectly round again. Then I polished them up and polished the spindle. It turns smooth as glass.
> To hone the bearings I installed them with the caps and turned the hone by hand, just enough to remove the scratches and make contact all the way around.



Thanks. I will consider this. Too bad the originals were ruined by someone. The surfaces are in much better shape.


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## ChuckB

I haven't got back to the spindle yet, but I did purchase some tooling for my 10L. The sum of these items cost more than the whole lathe, but you only live once! 

I have been working a lot of overtime at my job, so I figured I would reward myself.








The milling attachment was still in the original box.


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## woodtickgreg

Very nice, you usually don't get the jaws with the milling attachment.


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## ChuckB

Completed the shimming of the spindle shaft. Went pretty good. Once I got it under .005, it smoothed out, so I didn't hone the bearings. One thing that I did wrong was peeling off the .001 shim first, which was the side with the writing. I should have saved it for last, but everything work out fine with the play being right at .001.  As a test, I peeled off an additional shim, leaving it intact, and after finding out the shaft was too tight, I re-installed it. One thing I found, the shim pack was sold as being a total of .021 thick, but when I measured mine, it was in reality .031. I spun the shaft for 5 minutes with the old rotted belt and it ran fine with no heat on the spindle caps. I will remeasure the play again once it has ran a while.


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## woodtickgreg

Very cool, sounds like you are in much better shape now!


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## ChuckB

Pretty much a done deal. Made some chips today!


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## woodtickgreg

Very cool, you're gonna love it!


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## ChuckB

Finishing up. Mounted my lamp and got the collet closer working.










I have been thinking about making a spacer for this cover screw:





Also, do you think I can knurl this collet knob by holding up the tool to it and spinning the spindle?


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## ChuckB

Pictures say it all. One interesting note.. My thread dial was making a clunking noise at every revolution, but it worked fine.. I kind of thought it was normal. When I got done, I took it off and examined. Come to find out, when I painted it, I put the gear upside down, with the allen facing upwards! It was surprising that it worked at all!  Flipped it around and tested it. It's quiet now, all is good. 

Also, started turning in the 3 jaw and when cutting the grove, I knocked the piece out of alignment and had to use the 4 jaw chuck to line it back up.

Far from perfect, but I am quite pleased.


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## woodtickgreg

Very cool!


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## ChuckB

I tried to find a clutch knob screw that was missing from my lathe when I bought it without any luck. This screw has left hand threads. 

Figured I would try to make one. Although pretty straight forward, it took a few hours for a rookie like me. I am happy with the results.


----------

