# Which Drills to buy



## Dgrose (Feb 6, 2020)

I need to buy some drills (I understand you are not supposed to call them drill bits).  I was looking at drill sets rather than individual drills.  They have inch/metric.  Also have drills lettered from A-Z and some listed as wire size.  There are jobber drills and screw?? drills.  Some sets are $100 and others are $800 dollars for 115 pc sets.  What is the consensus on buying drills.  Should I go with regular shiny HSS split point jobber 115 pc set for $800 or go with something cheaper?


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## T Bredehoft (Feb 6, 2020)

I bought the three sets, fractional, letter, and number shortly after I began my apprenticeship. That was just about 50  years ago.  There are some I haven't used yet. There are some I've replaced over and over.  If I'd kept a list of drills I had to replace, I'd give it to you gladly and save you LOTS of money.  Now I'm replacing them by buying six of each as I run out. (I'm primarily using smaller than 1/8). 

I guess what I''m trying to say is...."Buy the ones you need, one or two at a time. Spend what you need for them, if you need solid carbide, buy one, if not HSS is adequate for most operations."


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## Shootymacshootface (Feb 6, 2020)

I bought the cobalt letter/number/fractional drill set from Harbor Freight and do not regret it one bit. I dont know how they could be any better at the price they sell for. They stay sharp and do not brake easy.
Absolutely stay away from the hss drills that they offer, unless you will only be using them for wood. The hss from them are only worth whatever the scrap guy will give you.


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## benmychree (Feb 6, 2020)

I would buy a set of fractional and a set of number drills of good quality, hopefully USA manufacture. Don't bother with letter drills so far as a set is concerned.  Aside from a few (letter drill) sizes for tap drills, they don't get used much; review tap drill sizes and buy only those you are liable to need.
Jobber drills are generally what you want for ordinary work, screw machine drills are made shorter than jobber drills.  Split point drills are nice, they are able to center on smaller punch marks and do not skate around like regular points, but are more difficult to sharpen without special equipment, although they can be carefully sharpened by hand.


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## ThinWoodsman (Feb 6, 2020)

As above, go for one of the 115-piece cobalt sets that are (usually) under a hundred bucks. Replace with Vikings (or equivalent) if/as they break.

Also, if just learning/starting out, get a set of stub drill bits (a set of up to 1/4" will run fifty bucks or less). You'll break fewer of them during the learning period.


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## mikey (Feb 6, 2020)

I call drill bits drill bits all the time, mostly because that's what they are. 

I would buy them in sets because you never know what you'll need; machining isn't just about tapping.
I would buy them in this order: wire size, fractional and then letter size. I use them all.
I would opt for 135 degree split points if you can, although the typical 118 degree drills work for most things.
Buy good drills from good makers; cheap Chinese drills are not worth the money. PTD, Triumph, Chicago-Latrobe, Cleveland, Dormer are a few good ones that I own. There are many others
Screw machine drills are better for accuracy. They are shorter, stiffer and give you more room to work.
Include spotting drills in your search. Buy them to suit your drill geometry. If you go with 135 degree drills, buy a 140 degree spotter; if you go with 118 degree drills, use a 120 degree spotter.
 I have jobber drill sets and a 115 piece set of screw machine drills from PTD and this meets most of my needs.


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## Cadillac (Feb 6, 2020)

Check eBay the brand is drill hog. There made in America great prices and they are lifetime warranty no matter what. I have them and no complaints.


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## stupoty (Feb 6, 2020)

mikey said:


> I call drill bits drill bits all the time, mostly because that's what they are.


it feels like an in joke I'm not getting 

I like having a selection and have of late dedicated one small box to drill press use and one to hand drill use , i have done this because of the ease with which drills can get bent in a hand drill.  

Stu


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## ub27Rocks (Feb 6, 2020)

I have a collection of drills from SKF, Dormer  and no-name. The no-name ones from a 118 set I am regrinding to 135° four facet, fixes the poor grind on some of them. For smaller work (<6mm or 1/4")I much prefer a good quality set of metric drills in .1mm increments over the number/letter/fractional drills.
You will find that the 135 ones wander less, often I don't need a center punch/spot drill for those.


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## NCjeeper (Feb 6, 2020)

Cadillac said:


> Check eBay the brand is drill hog. There made in America great prices and they are lifetime warranty no matter what. I have them and no complaints.
> View attachment 312822


X2. I have them also and they work well.


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## Aukai (Feb 6, 2020)

I thought the lifetime warranty was for snapped bits only, bent too?


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## tmenyc (Feb 6, 2020)

I also have the HF cobalt set of 100+ drills, have had since long before I got the lathe.  Have replaced a few of the smallest, #50+, over time, but the others are fine, sharp as if new.  I consume the 61-80 really little guys and buy them in tubes of 10 or 12, but they're too small for the lathe anyway. 
Tim


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## pontiac428 (Feb 6, 2020)

I think it's better to start with a set, that way you have the darn drill you need on hand by default.  Then replace what you break.  I've done pretty good with the Shars HSS sets, they're good quality at a step down in price from the good stuff.

Harold Hall and Tubal Cain might straighten out some of the confusion about drill point angles.  Hall's tool sharpening book and Cain's drill, tap, and die book from the Workshop Practice series are both in our site's download section.   The point angle on a twist drill is akin to the rake of a lathe bit, which is a specification you select based on the material you are cutting.  135 degree bits do punch through hard metal because they are pointy, but once the point is sunk in the work the rake angle will matter more.  See chart.
​
Split points have many advantages in that they are center-cutting and really control wander.  As much as I love my little cutter grinder, split points are a whiz-bang cinch to sharpen with a Darex Drill Doctor.  I've had mine for 25 years, and that little guy just keeps on ticking like a Timex watch.  You can grind a split point on any ordinary drill, so no reason to pay extra for them when they are new.


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## ACHiPo (Feb 6, 2020)

I bought a complete set of US made numbered, fractional, and lettered cobalt split point screw machine bits from a retired machinist.  They are nearly new--most do not look like they've ever been used.  They were not cheap--I paid 50% of new from the catalog he had from about 10 years ago--I think $300 for all of them.  The same sets would be about $1k new now.  I have a bunch of other used HSS jobber-length drills I use most of the time, but if I'm doing something I particularly care about, the cobalt drill comes out and is a joy to use.


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## mikey (Feb 6, 2020)

Hey Evan, gotta' tell you this story. I spotted a brand new set of Titex cobalt drills and matching taps on ebay. It was a micro set for holes up to 10-32, complete with the tap handle to drive them; retail for this set was over $300.00, if I recall correctly. Opening bid was $5.00, with free shipping, and the auction ended at something like 3am, Hawaii time. I guess I was the only one awake at the time and I won that set. I felt sorry for the seller, poor guy. When I have to tap tiny holes in stainless, this set comes out.


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## Janderso (Feb 6, 2020)

I bought a set of the Norseman letter and number sets. Made in USA.
So far, I would say they are very good quality. I have shattered a few of the letter drills. They must be hard 
Probably my fault.


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## Janderso (Feb 6, 2020)

mikey said:


> Hey Evan, gotta' tell you this story. I spotted a brand new set of Titex cobalt drills and matching taps on ebay. It was a micro set for holes up to 10-32, complete with the tap handle to drive them; retail for this set was over $300.00, if I recall correctly. Opening bid was $5.00, with free shipping, and the auction ended at something like 3am, Hawaii time. I guess I was the only one awake at the time and I won that set. I felt sorry for the seller, poor guy. When I have to tap tiny holes in stainless, this set comes out.


Ebay is rarely a place for great deals in my experience. You got a deal sir.


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## mikey (Feb 6, 2020)

Janderso said:


> Ebay is rarely a place for great deals in my experience. You got a deal sir.



Yeah, I did, but I still find a lot of deals on ebay. You just have to know what you want, how to find it, how to bid on it, how to walk away and how to be patient.

My last brand new 1/2" Albrecht chuck was $85.00 and this was about 2 years ago. There were two and the rest of the 19 bidders went for the second one. My brand new PTD 115 piece screw machine drill set came in at $100.00, shipped. I just "won" a brand new set of Borite cobalt micro boring bars last week - $50.00, and I was the only bidder.

I cannot even begin to list the deals I've gotten on ebay, even today. It does help that I know what I'm looking for, though.


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## BGHansen (Feb 6, 2020)

I have a set of the cobalt HF drills for under $100 and like them.  I've found the $20 sets of 29 fractionals to be of questionable quality.  Most of mine are US made HSS from Cleveland.  I've had very good luck with Norseman and Viking.

One thing I'd recommend is watching some videos on how to sharpen a drill bit.  You can drill better with a $1 sharp import drill bit than a $100 dull domestic.  They are going to dull, so might as well learn to sharpen them.  I've had very good luck with my Drill Doctor 750 drill sharpener.  Really tough, at least for me, to sharpen anything under 1/8" by eye anymore.

You mentioned screw drills.  Jobber length are the most common but the screw machine (or stubby) drills can be handy on a mill.  You should probably center or spot drill holes in steel for bits under 1/4" to keep them on center.  The screw machine drill bits are around 1/2 the length and relatively more rigid.  You can usually get away without spot drilling first.  Another plus with the shorter length is head room on a mill.  If you mount a 1/2" end mill directly in an R-8 collet, it hangs out of the spindle by just over the length of the exposed end mill.  A drill chuck hangs down easily lower than a 1/2" end mill, then you have the length of the drill bit on top of that.  Stubbies buy you a few inches of head room if that's important.

Bruce


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## darkzero (Feb 6, 2020)

Janderso said:


> Ebay is rarely a place for great deals in my experience.



Not my experience. 90% of my tools (not just machining related) that were great deals came from ebay over the past 10-15 yrs. All the unbelieveable steal deals I have got were from ebay. Deals were much better 5+ yrs ago though. Now a days they're harder to find & have to sort out all the China listings but deals are still there. Like Mike said, need to know how to find them as well as be patient & know how to bid on them.

My Eagle Rock K1-44 that costs around $400 I got for $85 shipped, was practically brand new. I got a 29 pc fractional set of Alvord-Polk reamers that costs around $700 for $70 shipped. Only 1 of the reamers looked like it was ever used. That one was a big surprise, I honestly thought I was buying an Chinese import set. Most of my measuring tools are from ebay as well as all my titanium stock. Plenty more but those 2 I remember the most. I just bought 2 brand new Dorian BXA holders last night for $40 ea.


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## projectnut (Feb 6, 2020)

As others have mentioned I would buy a fractional set in 1/64th increments up to 1/2".  In addition I would buy a number set from 1 to 60.  Unlike others I would also buy a letter set from A to Z.  As for the Chineesium ones it's a pig in a poke.  Some are good while others will leave you more than frustrated.  I would stick with name brands like Cleveland, Triumph, Precision, Chicago Latrobe, and others.  They're a bit more expensive, but in my opinion well worth the money.  I would say that 90+% of my drills are either bright HSS or black oxide coated.  I do have some cobalt and Carbide, but in the scheme of things they don't get used often enough to consider them at this point.

As you need replacements I would buy them by the package.  Depending on the size they generally come in packages of 6, 10, or 12.  You'll find the per unit price far less when buying by the pack.  As for eBay I've found lots of good prices.  Just be sure to check the eBay asking price against vendors like Minnesota Twist Drill, Zoro, and others. As I've mentioned in other posts many eBay vendors look at a "suggested list" price and ask the same or a portion of that price.  Just like cars hardly anyone actually pays "list Price".


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## mmcmdl (Feb 6, 2020)

I guess I'm the only one that replaces one dull drill bit with a another full set .


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## DavidR8 (Feb 6, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> I guess I'm the only one that replaces one dull drill bit with a another full set .



I think I now have some insight into your tool inventory situation!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MrWhoopee (Feb 6, 2020)

I also recommend getting a 3-in-1 set. That will cover everything you will ever need in jobber length drills up to 1/2.  Mine is an import set bought about 35 years ago for (IIRC) about $120. Based on the feedback, I wouldn't hesitate to get one of the HF cobalt sets to get started. When you break a drill, replace it with U.S. or Japanese made. Don't worry about metric drills until you need them (which I never have). Stub length are great for starting without spot drilling, but only get the necessary tap drill sizes. I sometimes make my own stub length drills (unintentionally).

Edit: And DEFINITELY learn how to sharpen drills by hand. It's not that hard.


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## projectnut (Feb 6, 2020)

As far as drill sets go the only ones I've purchased were back in the 1970's when I owned a repair shop.  Since then I've only replaced the broken ones, and sharpened the dull ones until there's nothing left.  For years I would take them to work and use their Darex grinder.  When that shop closed I tried to buy that grinder, but it was stolen before I could pick it up.

About 20 years ago I bought a Drill Doctor.  It worked fine for a while, but being mainly made out of plastic it eventually wore out.  I now have a Black Diamond drill grinder.  It was originally purchased by a local National Guard repair depot.  Why they bought it I'll never know.  It's a 220V 3 phase machine, and the repair depot didn't have 3 phase power.

It sat in a corner from 1974 to 2014 when the depot closed.  It was purchased at auction by a local shop as part of a lot.  They didn't really want it, so once again it sat in the corner.  A couple years ago they downsized and offered me the machine at a price I couldn't refuse.  I've had it a few years and it's more than paid for itself.

When my Drill Doctor died I just kept throwing dull drills in cans and boxes.  About a year ago I hunted down all the boxes and began the mind numbing task of sharpening the drills.  I had accumulated nearly 500 in the interim.  They're finally all sharpened and put in the proper places.  I now sharpen when the stack approaches 50.  Then it only takes around an hour to complete the job.  This machine can sharpen fractional drills from 1/16" to 1/2", letter drills from A to Z, and number drills from 1 to 60

*On Edit*: It can sharpen fractional sizes from 1/16" to 3/4"

Here's a picture of the Black Diamond:


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## darkzero (Feb 7, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> I guess I'm the only one that replaces one dull drill bit with a another full set .





DavidR8 said:


> I think I now have some insight into your tool inventory situation!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I hope he replaces lathes & mills too when the oil gets dirty!

Like I said before Dave, my trash bin is always empty for you to use!


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## mmcmdl (Feb 7, 2020)

You're gonna need a more biggery place !  If it's not tools , it's tractors . If it's not tractors , it's 4 wheelers . If it's not 4 wheelers , it's cars and trucks , if it's not cars and trucks , it's antiques , or toys , furniture , woodstoves ,


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## darkzero (Feb 7, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> You're gonna need a more bigger place !  If it's not tools , it's tractors . If it's not tractors , it's 4 wheelers . If it's not 4 wheelers , it's cars and trucks , if it's not cars and trucks , it's antiques , or toys , furniture , woodstoves ,








My new best friend!


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## mmcmdl (Feb 7, 2020)

A lot of this stuff is on it's way out this April . Always have a weekend long yard sale and do pretty good at ridding myself of some un-wanteds .


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## ACHiPo (Feb 7, 2020)

mikey said:


> Hey Evan, gotta' tell you this story. I spotted a brand new set of Titex cobalt drills and matching taps on ebay. It was a micro set for holes up to 10-32, complete with the tap handle to drive them; retail for this set was over $300.00, if I recall correctly. Opening bid was $5.00, with free shipping, and the auction ended at something like 3am, Hawaii time. I guess I was the only one awake at the time and I won that set. I felt sorry for the seller, poor guy. When I have to tap tiny holes in stainless, this set comes out.


Sounds like you're all set for a second career in implant dentistry!


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## deakin (Feb 7, 2020)

one thing to consider is a drill cabinet (huot is one brand). much more convenient and practical that the "stands" and you can stock up on sizes you use most


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## PT Doc (Feb 7, 2020)

Cadillac said:


> Check eBay the brand is drill hog. There made in America great prices and they are lifetime warranty no matter what. I have them and no complaints.
> View attachment 312822



not made in America. Message the seller and see what response you get. I bet you will get none.

If you want quality drills, buy Norseman. Buy them once and forget about it.


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## projectnut (Feb 8, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> I guess I'm the only one that replaces one dull drill bit with a another full set .





PT Doc said:


> not made in America. Message the seller and see what response you get. I bet you will get none.
> 
> If you want quality drills, buy Norseman. Buy them once and forget about it.



I believe you are correct.  I looked at them a few months ago.  While the company selling them is out of Montana there is no information available as to where they're manufactured.  I spent a couple hours researching manufacturing locations, and couldn't find anything.

Another possibility is that they are made as a private label brand by a company that makes more well known brands.  The company I worked for made private brands for quite a number of products.  They also made different grades of products sold under different name brands.  This could be true of the Drill Hog brand.  Usually the manufacturers won't disclose the brands they make other than their own.


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## ttabbal (Feb 8, 2020)

I don't know where Drill Hog are made. I will say that mine work well and have held up well other than a couple I broke using a hand drill. I think I got off angle. They replaced them promptly. The bits I have are Cobalt, and work great in the lathe and mill. 

I might have tried the HF cobalt set, but was still irritated at the lesser set I have from them with a few pre-bent bits and a few that dulled quickly. They were bought before I did much metal work. They do work alright in wood..


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## Cadillac (Feb 8, 2020)

PT Doc said:


> not made in America. Message the seller and see what response you get. I bet you will get none.
> 
> If you want quality drills, buy Norseman. Buy them once and forget about it.



Honestly idk 100%. But when they come in a huot index box with made in the USA stamped on it. A sticker on the inside that is the American flag and says made in America. Then the listing clearly says made in the USA and their out of Montana and have lifetime warranty or full refunds if you don’t like their product. That to me is a great American company so I’m gonna beleive it.


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## projectnut (Feb 8, 2020)

I'm inclined to believe there's a bit of advertising "slight of hand" going on with the Drill Hog brand.  Only 3 of their many sets of drills are themselves actually advertised as "Made in the USA".  2 others say "drill index Made in America".  Many others have the Made in USA label on the Huot box, but don't actually say the drills are made in the USA.  Others just tout the company's name is Drill Hog USA.

I believe if all the drills themselves were made in the USA ALL the advertisings would say so.  It's kind of like the Apple phones, computers, watches, etc. that all proudly say "Designed and Engineered in the USA".  In much smaller letters somewhere on the packaging it actually states "manufactured in China".

Here are a couple excerpts from an article about the Drill Hog company:

"Drill Hog is a brand name of “Canary Island Corporation”, incorporated in Nevada, registered in California and operating in California."

"The business is a “manufacturers representative”, which means that Mr. Russell probably purchases these drills from the actual manufacturer for resale. There is some left-over web presence of what appear to be two previous businesses of Mr. Russell: Something called “tarpsdirect”, and toolprice.com which sold Harbor Freight style merchandise. "

Here's a link to the article:





__





						Drill Hog Drill Bits – And Information About Their Company – Bruce Perens
					





					perens.com


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## PT Doc (Feb 8, 2020)

Cadillac said:


> Honestly idk 100%. But when they come in a huot index box with made in the USA stamped on it. A sticker on the inside that is the American flag and says made in America. Then the listing clearly says made in the USA and their out of Montana and have lifetime warranty or full refunds if you don’t like their product. That to me is a great American company so I’m gonna beleive it.
> View attachment 313007



you have fallen for the scam. Yes Huot indexes are made in the USA. Anyone can keep posting made in the USA. Are the drills labeled USA.

This ebay seller keeps scamming people. I guess it’s buyer beware. There is no manufacturer called drill hog. This has been posted numerous times on this and other sites. If you are happy with the product , then great. But you should know what you are buying.

Message the seller and ask where the drills that you bought are made. You likely will not get a reply.


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## PT Doc (Feb 8, 2020)

PT Doc said:


> you have fallen for the scam. Yes Huot indexes are made in the USA. Anyone can keep posting made in the USA. Are the drills labeled USA.
> 
> This ebay seller keeps scamming people. I guess it’s buyer beware. There is no manufacturer called drill hog. This has been posted numerous times on this and other sites. If you are happy with the product , then great. But you should know what you are buying.
> 
> Message the seller and ask where the drills that you bought are made. You likely will not get a reply.



Wouldn’t be surprised to hear that hf drills were being put into Huot drill indexes and now the eBay auction is 0lastered with USA.


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## Cadillac (Feb 8, 2020)

I can’t count  how many drill sets I’ve bought in the 25yrs doing so but I can tell you that these fifty dollar drill bits through drill hog are the best dollar for dollar set Ive ever bought. I’ve bought sets through Lawson tools, ,McMaster, snap on, craftsman, of comparable size and quality and paid three times the price and they won’t warranty them but theyll sell you another. 
  Price out a set of comparable size and quality and report back on your price. Their are many manufacturers out there that have their line and customers line running side by side which 3of the 4 I listed above do so. I don’t care if drill hog is making the bits I do care that they have a great product and honor their warranty without a hiccup. Show me someone that can compare???


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## Cadillac (Feb 8, 2020)

PT Doc said:


> Wouldn’t be surprised to hear that hf drills were being put into Huot drill indexes and now the eBay auction is 0lastered with USA.



A hout index cost more than HF junk.


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## projectnut (Feb 9, 2020)

Cadillac said:


> I can’t count  how many drill sets I’ve bought in the 25yrs doing so but I can tell you that these fifty dollar drill bits through drill hog are the best dollar for dollar set Ive ever bought. I’ve bought sets through *Lawson tools, ,McMaster, snap on, *craftsman, of comparable size and quality and paid three times the price and they won’t warranty them but theyll sell you another.
> Price out a set of comparable size and quality and report back on your price. Their are many manufacturers out there that have their line and customers line running side by side which 3of the 4 I listed above do so. I don’t care if drill hog is making the bits I do care that they have a great product and honor their warranty without a hiccup. Show me someone that can compare???



Again you're buying drills from unknown manufacturers.  Craftsman continually switches suppliers, so you have no idea who actually made them.  For all you know they may be rebranded from HF.  As for Snap On the only drills I've ever seen from them are labeled "Blue Point"  this is the label they put on tools and tooling purchased from contract vendors, unlike the Snap On brand which once upon a time was made in company owned facilities here in the US.  As for Lawson I would classify them as middle to low middle of the road.  I used them extensively when in the auto repair business, mainly because it was the brand stocked by most auto parts houses.  They were adequate, but not in the same class as Cleveland, Precision, and Triumph, which I would rate as high middle of the road.

If you really want to spend more money check out Guhring, OSG, or Karnasch.  Personally I've had the best performance and durability with the 3 brands I mentioned as "high middle of the road".  Other brands that I' haven't tried yet, but are of interest are Viking, and Norseman.


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