# Looking at a SF m1018



## better-lathe-than-never (Sep 21, 2021)

I'm looking for a bench top lathe for my garage shop and came across Shop Fox lathe/mill combo locally - it's m1018 from 2014, I believe.   What are some things to look at on a machine like that (besides the bedways wear and lead screw condition)?

I've never done machining, but have a lot of tooling passed on from my late father and want to put them to good use.  He left me both milling bits and high speed cutting tools for the lathe as well as a lot of parallels, 1-2-3 blocks, micrometers, etc.

I understand the combos aren't as good as individual machines but I'm thinking for a newbie like me this may be a good start.  Thoughts?


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## markba633csi (Sep 21, 2021)

Some folks like 'em, many don't.  The ones with the mill portion attached about halfway down the lathe bed are the best.
The ones with the mill head right over the lathe headstock are difficult because the mill head is always in the way, is limited in swing and reach, and they often share the same motor which can be a real pain.
The idea is great, but the execution often sucks. A lathe is not a milling machine; the carriage is designed to hold cutting tools, not workpieces of any size.
Also, the quality can be pretty poor.  Smithy has a pretty good reputation though.  I would avoid Shop Fox, Bolton and the rest.
Even the smallest of individual machines can do more than these combo gadgets. Plus you can upgrade one or the other separately.
Save your ducats and buy a decent import lathe from Grizzly or Precision Mathews, or perhaps a good used Atlas, then keep looking for a small milling machine to show up.  Buy the best possible machines you can to start with, you'll be much happier. 
Also,  this time of year the selection of used machines can be lean
-M


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## Mitch Alsup (Sep 21, 2021)

98% of us would rather a lathe and a mill as separate machines.
We don't know enough about you and your interests to decide if you are in the 98% or in the 2%.

In general combination lathe/mills are seriously compromised as a lathe and again as a mill.
As a lathe there is the small work envelope.
As a mill there is scant X-Y motions, and zero Z motions (other than the quill.) {Hint: quills are for drilling not milling}


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## matthewsx (Sep 21, 2021)

We have another member on here who is convinced they need a combo machine. Maybe reach out and see if it makes sense for you to grab this one and pick up a decent lathe near them....

John


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## better-lathe-than-never (Sep 21, 2021)

Mitch Alsup said:


> zero Z motions (other than the quill.) {Hint: quills are for drilling not milling}


Right... I didn't realize that...  that's a drawback.

I figured that having some capability for milling would be more beneficial for me than not having any ability to mill anything at all...  though I do have a large pedestal drill which I suppose could masquerade as a mill for very light work but I'm sure it would be even worse for this task.


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## matthewsx (Sep 21, 2021)

Get a capable lathe first. You will be amazed how many "milling" functions can be done on a lathe with a 4 jaw chuck. There are also milling attachments, generally not great but better to have a good lathe and suffer with one than to have a machine that does neither function well.

My dad built an airplane in the 1960's and he told me that he wanted a Bridgeport but couldn't afford/justify one so he used a disk sander.

If you don't have projects right now that require a milling machine I would definitely recommend getting a decent lathe and learning how to run that first. There's much to learn and many skills will transfer directly to milling.

JMHO,

John


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## better-lathe-than-never (Sep 21, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> Get a capable lathe first.


Been going in circles on that for a while now - don't wanna spend a ton of money on a machine (around $1,500 would be ideal).   Could this one be considered a capable one?  https://denver.craigslist.org/tls/d/castle-rock-craftsman-metal-lathe/7383167575.html

Last time I looked at an older Atlas (without quick change gears) it rattled like a tin-can.   It had its bed ways badly worn, so I walked away.  I just don't know what they should sound like when they're running right without some practice and with a good sharp cutter, not a piece of crap that the owner scrounged up for me last minute...


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## Janderso (Sep 21, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> Get a capable lathe first. You will be amazed how many "milling" functions can be done on a lathe with a 4 jaw chuck


So true. With a face plate and a 4 jaw chuck you can do many creative milling operations.


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## matthewsx (Sep 21, 2021)

better-lathe-than-never said:


> Been going in circles on that for a while now - don't wanna spend a ton of money on a machine (around $1,500 would be ideal).   Could this one be considered a capable one?  https://denver.craigslist.org/tls/d/castle-rock-craftsman-metal-lathe/7383167575.html
> 
> Last time I looked at an older Atlas (without quick change gears) it rattled like a tin-can.   It had its bed ways badly worn, so I walked away.  I just don't know what they should sound like when they're running right without some practice and with a good sharp cutter, not a piece of crap that the owner scrounged up for me last minute...


Would be good at half that price if it's all there and not worn out.


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## better-lathe-than-never (Sep 21, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> Would be good at half that price if it's all there and not worn out.


Worn out ones start at $1,200 and go up, around here....    Crazy world


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## matthewsx (Sep 21, 2021)

Remember, you only need one. If you can’t find a good used machine just keep saving up until you can order new.

Patience is key here, if you like projects then buy one. But, don’t expect to save money in the long run.

The lathe is the heart of your home machine shop and having a capable unit will serve you well. I consider 12x36 a minimum size for being able to handle hobby size work. Plenty of folks do well with less but you need to understand your needs.

Keep looking, you’ll find one.

John


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## markba633csi (Sep 21, 2021)

The advantage of something like an Atlas is that you can be confident the factory work was done correctly, and the only issues may be wear or broken or missing parts.  Worn bedways are fairly easy to spot.  Spindle bearings and gears can be replaced, and fairly economically too. Ebay usually can supply what you need. Atlas lathes can cut a very wide range of threads, both Imperial and Metric. With some of the imports, the machines are so poorly made they might as well be melted back down, from some of the horrors I have seen.  Some don't even include the correct change gears.
-M


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## Aaron_W (Sep 21, 2021)

better-lathe-than-never said:


> Been going in circles on that for a while now - don't wanna spend a ton of money on a machine (around $1,500 would be ideal).   Could this one be considered a capable one?  https://denver.craigslist.org/tls/d/castle-rock-craftsman-metal-lathe/7383167575.html
> 
> Last time I looked at an older Atlas (without quick change gears) it rattled like a tin-can.   It had its bed ways badly worn, so I walked away.  I just don't know what they should sound like when they're running right without some practice and with a good sharp cutter, not a piece of crap that the owner scrounged up for me last minute...



Depending on condition and what "all the tooling I have" actually is, that is worth looking at.

Prices on everything have shot up new and used in the past year or two. It has a quick change gear box and quick change tool post so it probably gets used. Looks like the bench comes with it, and looks like a decent bench. There are better deals out there with patience, but as long as it is in decent shape and has the usual standard tooling (3 and 4 jaw chuck, steady rest, follow rest, centers etc) it isn't a bad deal from what I've been seeing lately.

I was just pricing materials today to make a bench for one of my lathes, I'd give that guy $200 just for the bench.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Sep 21, 2021)

that Atlas is a perfectly capable lathe to get started with. Lots of people have done fine work with them. There are better lathes out there, but the best lathe is the one you can use  Price is reasonable too, somewhat depending on what tooling comes with it. Even if you were to upgrade to a better lathe in a year or two, I doubt you'd be out much money if any.


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## better-lathe-than-never (Sep 22, 2021)

I called about that Craftsman lathe today and spoke with the owner.   He thinks it's from the 50s, it's a Sears Roebuck brand Model 101-20140 (though I'm not finding anything with that model number on the net).  He's owned it since the 90s and used it to turn some spacers and rods for his motorcycle hobby.  It's a 10x36in machine; he said there is no wear on the ways and everything is tight.  Sounds like I should go down there and see it in person (he's about 1 hr south of me, mostly due to traffic).   He has 3 and 4jaw chuck with it, QCTP, live center and some HSS tool bits.  He's moving out of state and would rather not bring it with him.

If anyone has any info on this model, plz let me know.


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## Aaron_W (Sep 22, 2021)

better-lathe-than-never said:


> I called about that Craftsman lathe today and spoke with the owner.   He thinks it's from the 50s, it's a Sears Roebuck brand Model 101-20140 (though I'm not finding anything with that model number on the net).  He's owned it since the 90s and used it to turn some spacers and rods for his motorcycle hobby.  It's a 10x36in machine; he said there is no wear on the ways and everything is tight.  Sounds like I should go down there and see it in person (he's about 1 hr south of me, mostly due to traffic).   He has 3 and 4jaw chuck with it, QCTP, live center and some HSS tool bits.  He's moving out of state and would rather not bring it with him.
> 
> If anyone has any info on this model, plz let me know.



Lathes UK does list 101-20140 as a model number, but no specifics other than being a post WW2, pre-1957 model. The Sears numbering system beyond who made it (101 = Atlas) can be very confusing, especially when there were so many options that could be bought with the lathe or bought separately and then added later.

 You could try asking in the Atlas / Craftsman section of the forum and probably get a better response from someone who owns one. There is a member WA5CAB who knows these lathes very well.


If you don't know the lathes UK site, it has a wealth of information on vintage US and European lathes. Here is the page that would cover the model you are looking at.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page2.html

They have their detractors, but there are a lot of happy Craftsman owners out there. Agree with Mark at $1600 I don't think you would have much trouble getting most of your money back if you decide to replace it with something else in the future. 

Your first lathe is the hardest part. Once you have something to work with, even if it it ultimately falls short of your needs it becomes so much easier to wait for "the one". It also become much easier to figure out what your needs really are, bigger, longer, beefier, more accurate? A lot of that is very hard to figure out in a vacuum.


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## better-lathe-than-never (Sep 22, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> Lathes UK does list 101-20140 as a model number, but no specifics other than being a post WW2, pre-1957 model. T


So this is a British made model? Or US made and sold in UK...


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## matthewsx (Sep 22, 2021)

US made by Atlas for Sears.

lathes.co.uk is a huge repository of machine tool info, check it out.

John


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## Aaron_W (Sep 22, 2021)

better-lathe-than-never said:


> So this is a British made model? Or US made and sold in UK...



Lathes UK is just a site based in the UK with a ton of info on old lathes. The Craftsman lathes were mostly sold in the US although I'm sure some found there way into Canada as well.


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## markba633csi (Sep 22, 2021)

I believe that's actually a 12" swing model.  The tall compound is the tip-off
If there is much bed wear it will be near the headstock. Look for score marks where the carriage slides and feel with your fingernail for ridges and deep scores.
You can also do the light carriage lock and run to the tailstock test but a visual and finger inspection is usually sufficient
Don't worry if you see a few dents on the inside corners of the ways from chucks being dropped- most lathes have a few.
Spin the chuck and feel/listen to the spindle.  Good bearings have a smooth quiet roar that indicates they are ok.  
-M


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## better-lathe-than-never (Sep 22, 2021)

markba633csi said:


> I believe that's actually a 12" swing model.


Based on what I've been reading on the UK site, I believe you're right - it seems to be the 12" swing x 36" bed ways model.


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## better-lathe-than-never (Sep 24, 2021)

I went out and looked that Atlas machine yesterday with a friend.   The machine looked pretty good at first glance (though he didn't make any effort to clean it up prior to the buyer coming over.... which makes a bad impression for me from the start.   He had some rusty mismatched set of tools, the chucks were 4'' and looked tiny, there was some poorly made chuck key, no base plate, no face plate, some old rusty dogs, cheap chinese bits.  Worst thing was that he didn't know how to make the lead screw run - so he couldn't show me.   I had to assume that it wasn't working.  We mounted a piece of 5/8'' mild steel rod in the chuck that I brought with me and tried to run a basic facing operation.....    we ended up with a radius around the face of the rod....  we could not get a straight cut with what he had setup...  pitiful.  We tightened the gibs on the side - they were lose, still, it made no difference in the results. 

It's entirely possible someone who knows what they are doing would be able to troubleshoot and make proper adjustments on this thing and probably get it to go, but I was dismayed with what I saw and I walked away.

He pinged me later to tell me he got the lead screw to go, but I told him I need something with more precision than what I saw there.  Disappointing.


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## Aaron_W (Sep 24, 2021)

better-lathe-than-never said:


> It's entirely possible someone who knows what they are doing would be able to troubleshoot and make proper adjustments on this thing and probably get it to go, but I was dismayed with what I saw and I walked away.



For what he was asking I'd expect everything to work well and at least include a decent set of basic tooling appropriate to the lathe. 

Too bad, the ad looked promising but this is a good example of why many say never to buy a machine without putting your hands on it. It isn't that hard to make a bad machine look good in photos.


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