# Turn your cheapo bandsaw into a Ti/Steel/Alu eating monster



## spaceman_spiff (Oct 22, 2014)

A bandsaw may be a simple tool, but it can become a major source of annoyance and bottleneck in your work and your enjoyment of your hobby if its taking forever to cut through thick stock.

You may have read that using a bimetal, low tooth per inch blade helps. But unless you've tried it, I bet you don't know just how INSANE the difference is. Yes INSANE.

I got my 8 year old Horrible Freight horizontal vertical bandsaw (yes the famous one everyone has), and first thing I did after tuning it up was try to cut through a block of 6061 using the typical 14 tpi carbon steel blade on it. 

It could not have been more disappointing. After 5 minutes it had barely gone through 1/2" of a 3" thick block of 6061.

Purely by chance, I happened to have a 14 foot, brand new, 5 tpi, bimetal bandsaw blade that was 1/2" wide and 0.025" thick. I decided to see if somehow it would improve things so I cut it up and TIG welded it together to make a blade that would fit the little HF saw.

Then I tried the cut again.

UM. In 5 minutes it had cut through the ENTIRE 3" x 4" 6061-T6 block!!!

That right there turned the saw from a nearly useless tool into something much better than I expected.

I then tried 1018 steel and it was the same deal. I used the fastest speed on the pulleys. It cut through it like nothing, not much slower than the aluminum.

Just for a lark, I then tried cutting through a 1.5" thick by 5" wide 6al4V titanium block I had. And yes, still at the full speed pulley settings.

It cut through it in about 15 minutes!! 

The chip clearance and cutting style with this blade is AMAZING. I've used the same blade for about 8 months and cut dozens of huge blocks of aluminum. Its worth EVERY penny and I would never buy another carbon steel blade. And all those dozens of huge aluminum chunks I've cut during the 8 months was done after my tests on the titanium and steel, BTW.

In the picture is what I believe was the tag that went on the blade.

There is a blade on ebay that I have in my "watch list" for when I need to get a replacement blade. I would hope it has the same performance, its bi metal, the right length for this saw, and about the same TPI. First to try it and report gets a high five!! Here it is: http://www.ebay.com/itm/370800913134?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

It should be noted that the high tooth count carbon steel blades still have uses..for instance cutting thin wall tubing where a low tooth count blade would catch and pull the tube.


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## Rbeckett (Oct 22, 2014)

Looks like it will cut real nasty material quick and easy too.  That low of a tooth count is gonna preclude just about all thin walled tubing because it will probably catch a tooth and start peeling them off or flatten your tooth set and make it do angles and get all hung up..  Hope not because that looks like such a great idea and I would be willing to give it a try if I can find the material to cut down to length and weld with my tig too.  Keep us posted on how long that blade lasts too please.

Bob


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## Fabrickator (Oct 22, 2014)

Jeez, that looks like a wood blade.  I would never have even tried it on that saw to cut steel, but aluminum is OK.  I'm usually not in any hurry when I'm cutting on mine so I run it real slow to ensure that I get a good, straight cut and minimize mill time.


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## spaceman_spiff (Oct 22, 2014)

Fabrickator said:


> Jeez, that looks like a wood blade.  I would never have even tried it on that saw to cut steel, but aluminum is OK.  I'm usually not in any hurry when I'm cutting on mine so I run it real slow to ensure that I get a good, straight cut and minimize mill time.


 
Cutting fast actually doesn't make the little HF bandsaw cut crooked. With only a little adjustment I get 0.030" taper from top to bottom of a 3" thick piece, thats what those 1/8" sticks of aluminum under the blade guide mounts are. I could probably tune that out to even less of a taper by putting in set screws instead of the spacers and adjusting it to perfection, but 30 thou is fine since everything gets dropped in the mill. And FWIW that taper is there even when I switch blades to a high TPI carbon steel blade and cut very slowly..its just part of this bandsaws little quirks.


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## spaceman_spiff (Oct 22, 2014)

Rbeckett said:


> Looks like it will cut real nasty material quick and easy too.  That low of a tooth count is gonna preclude just about all thin walled tubing because it will probably catch a tooth and start peeling them off or flatten your tooth set and make it do angles and get all hung up..  Hope not because that looks like such a great idea and I would be willing to give it a try if I can find the material to cut down to length and weld with my tig too.  Keep us posted on how long that blade lasts too please.
> 
> Bob



I actually have to cut 1/16" wall 6061 tubing frequently, and I switch out the blade for the 14tpi carbon steel blade, like I mentioned and actually even that blade grabs a bit. I think more like 18 or 20tpi would be called for in that case. But this aggressive bade seems to cut 1/8th inch wall okay.


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## gheumann (Nov 1, 2014)

I have the HF bandsaw and though I work while it is cutting, it takes about 10 minutes to cut through the 2 1/2" 6061 T6 I use. I need 3/4" thick billets to work with and I use a lot of them so the time is still a bother. I've tried lots of blades and WiSHED I could find one with fewer TPI than 12. I ordered the one you pointed to on eBay. At $22 and $12 shipping that is stupid-expensive but I have to know. (And I don't have a tig welder.) The site said "Economy Shipping from outside US
Est. delivery between Wed. Nov. 19 - Mon. Dec. 1" - so it could be crap. Who knows. I will try to remember to post the results here!

THANK YOU for the info.

/Greg
http://www.blowsmeaway.com


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## chuckorlando (Nov 1, 2014)

36 bucks for a good blade aint to bad. Long as it's good. You need to keep 2+ teeth in the work. So thinner the wall higher the tpi. Can you cut on less teeth? Sure, but your on borrowed time in regards to ruining the blade, stock, both.


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## sawlog (Nov 1, 2014)

I actually order my blades from Amazon. For my 4x6  bandsaw. In fact the blades are Starrett bi metal. Personally I have had good results cutting steel,stainless, brass, and aluminum. With these blades, in fact they are less expensive than the Lennox bi metal blades and perform as well for me. I use the 14 to 16 per inch tooth count blades to cut everything in my home shop.


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## gheumann (Nov 1, 2014)

Sawlog - that's what I've been doing too. And it works fine. Just SLOW! I just heard from the eBay seller - the blade mentioned above is coming from Canada. That makes me feel better......


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## Andre (Nov 1, 2014)

In all fairness you went from a cheap china worthless blade to a quality Starrett blade. 

It's not all in the TPI of the blade, it's the quality.


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## Rick Leslie (Nov 1, 2014)

This thread is pretty timely as I've got a Sears vertical bandsaw that's practically useless. I've been trying the high tooth count but have a 12 or 15 TPI blade for wood work. I'll have to see how it works out. 

At the risk of a highjack, I've read some info on "friction" cutting where a fine tooth blade is installed backward and run at really high speeds. Supposed to "cut like butter" but IDK. End of sidetrack. Thanks for the tip.


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## spaceman_spiff (Nov 1, 2014)

Andre said:


> In all fairness you went from a cheap china worthless blade to a quality Starrett blade.
> 
> It's not all in the TPI of the blade, it's the quality.



I think its the much lower TPI and the bimetal construction. I also have several brand new Morse carbon steel, usa made,  14 and 18 tpi blades which cut like crap just like whatever blade I got with the saw. They are only good for cutting through thin wall tubing IMO. 

I can't reiterate enough guys. You think $30 is alot for a bandsaw blade, that tells me you haven't yet experienced what this low TPI, bimetal bandsaw blade can do. Once you spend $30 on it, you will feel like you got the deal of the century for not spending $60. And then your dilemma will be, do you give away, or throw away, the carbon blades. Giving them away is sort of an insult to whoever you give them to. But you may want to keep them if you cut thin wall tubing.


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## spaceman_spiff (Nov 1, 2014)

Rick Leslie said:


> At the risk of a highjack, I've read some info on "friction" cutting where a fine tooth blade is installed backward and run at really high speeds. Supposed to "cut like butter" but IDK. End of sidetrack. Thanks for the tip.



I've done this. It does work. But I never did find a project that specifically needed this ability. I suppose it would only work on materials that get hot because they dissipate heat relatively poorly, so steel and stainless. Its probably best for very thin materials which would chatter on anything but a very fine blade, which would then cut very slow. So if you need to make fast cuts on very thin steel/stainless, its probably something to look into.


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## Ebel440 (Nov 1, 2014)

Had someone at work install a bimetal 18 tpi blade upside down it cut like a dull blade but it was running at regular speed so it may have worked better running faster. I was actually surprised it cut as well as it did. I believe they make special blades for friction sawing as well but I'm not sure what they look like.


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## chuckorlando (Nov 1, 2014)

You turn the blade around to cut soft stuff like plastic. Not steel. 18tpi is a whole lotta tooth for anything other than thin wall stuff.

You can spend 15 bucks on a cheap blade and get 6 months of slow cuts or 30 and get a year of fast cuts. Regardless of tooth count. A cheap 18tpi verse a good 18tpi will be night and day. Especially in the long term. Cheap cutting tools have to be considered throw away tools. Drills, blades, wheels, if they are cheap they are throw aways or your lucky in my experience.


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## Ebel440 (Nov 3, 2014)

I'm pretty sure friction sawing is mainly for ferrous metals as a way to soften material and remove it.


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## spaceman_spiff (Nov 13, 2014)

okay got some hard data...might be useful to compare if the blade really does cut faster or not

6061-T6/651

2-5/8" long
1-13/16" tall

4 minutes and 30 seconds

Motor housing got up to around 98F 

Blade guides set to widest 

Pulley speed set to fastest

No lube

Cutting force set to somewhere in the middle..pretty light

Someone cut something similar and lets compare!!


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## vintage iron (Nov 13, 2014)

Vintage Iron
I also had been using the inexpensive morse blades that I bought at the lumber yard where I bought my 4 x 6 Jet saw many years ago. I was never happy with those blades, just thought that I didn't have a choice. Then I noticed that several tool catalogs had the correct length of blades with lennox and starrett brands. WoW, what a difference. I agree with Andre, that with these small saws it's not just the pitch, but more importantly, a better brand of blade.:thumbsup:


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## sawlog (Nov 14, 2014)

I agree I use Starrett bi metal in my saw, they work well and less expensive than Lenox blades.


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## tractorman44 (Nov 15, 2014)

I have an monstrously old cast iron bandsaw, don't remember the name, but it takes 10'5" blades.  I get them from Graingers in bi-metal and 14 tpi at a cost of $48.00 and change.  I'll try the low tpi route next time even though so far the performance of this old saw and blade combination has been exemplary.  

However, AR 400 1/4" x 12" plate rounded the teeth off in seconds....  Good thing that blade was near the end of its life cycle anyway...


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## Cami (Nov 16, 2014)

I've never stressed about slow cuts on a horizontal bandsaw.  I don't have one at home but used one at work to cut everything from itty-bitty stuff to I-beams.  I set it, forget it, and do something else.  As long as you're not a jerk with the feed and start eating up blades, I think it's the cheapest way to cut metal in a fab shop.

Good blades are good help but concurrent activity is your best friend!


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## Andre (Nov 16, 2014)

I've cut things that size on my JET saw and the motor was barely warm to the touch. Was also a dull fine tooth blade with 20 teeth chipped off.....

Don't know why your motor got a fair bit warmer, maybe the coarser blade draws more power?


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## george wilson (Nov 17, 2014)

I don't know if ALL Morse blades are garbage,but some years ago I bought a whole roll of Morse wood cutting 1/4" wide bandsaw blades. We welded our own. Those blades cut so horrible,I threw out the whole roll and got some other blades. Starrett or Lennox. I can't recall.


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## gheumann (Nov 17, 2014)

I received and installed that 7 TPI blade. ALL blades cut better when brand new, but this cut through my 2.375" round aluminum bar (6061-T6) in 6 minutes. That's pretty fast. The best I've seen before was about 8 minutes - but once the blade has cut, say, 6 pieces - that goes down to 10+. It will be interesting to see how this one holds up over time.

No lube, fastest belt setting, almost no counter-spring.


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## george wilson (Nov 17, 2014)

Fewer teeth means the blade WILL dull faster. Can't be helped.


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