# Need help spending money on a CNC mill



## M.T. Pockets (Feb 3, 2021)

I'm at a bit of a crossroads when it comes to my CNC based machining... I currently own a Taig milling machine that's been CNC'd with a vanilla setup of a G540 driver, NEMA23 stepper motors, Smoothstepper controller, and a 750W DMM servo spindle motor, all controlled with Mach3. The mill has actually been great, its far exceeded my expectations over the past few years and I've made some parts on it that I used to never think were possible with such a low budget machine.

However, now my needs and desires are changing. I have more money than time these days and the constant battle with Mach3 and getting those feeds and speeds dialed in just right is getting old. I'd also like the ability to cut mild steel and stainless and require less constant fiddling to keep things accurate. I've considered upgrading the Taig, new frame, R8 spindle, servo motors, etc but I can't make the ends justify the means by dumping that kind of money into such a little machine just doesn't make sense. 

So, this leads me to my quandary, what kind of machine to get? I'd love to get a HAAS office mill or pick up an old Fadal, Mazak, etc but I can't fit it in my basement and the concrete can't take the weight. My brain first went to Tormach, either a 440 or a 770 (but probably a 440) and I may still go this route. My other thought is to do a conversion but I know these can become a project on their own my main goal right now is to make parts not more projects. But if there's a mill out there that has some proven conversion kits and a good spindle, maybe it might be the best option? I'd like to keep this new machine below $6k as this is still just a hobby for me. So,

Option 1: Tormach 440 (machine only, no enclosure, etc) - Works out of the box, nothing to fiddle with. However, Tormach has had some spotty reviews over the years. I'm also concerned with parts/repairs and Tormach's customer service. I don't mind repairing a machine myself, but I need to know I can get parts for it. There's also little opportunity for customization since everything needs to work with PathPilot. 

Option 2: Manual Conversion (PM-728 or similar) - A project of its own, but if there are conversion kits readily available it might not be so bad? Might be lower cost option and could use servos, greater working envelope, and overall better hardware than what's in the Tormach. Repairs/support might be easier with readily available off the shelf parts. Would probably run it with LinuxCNC. 

Option 3: Convert my PM-833TV - I have a 833TV that I use for manual machining which is probably ~70% of the milling work I do. If the project allows I prefer manual machining compared to CNC but it would also be nice to only have to deal with working and maintaining one machine, not to mention freeing up some space. Obviously any manual work would have to be controlled with a pedant. Although something like a Accurite MillPower setup would be ideal for me as could do manual and CNC but this would probably be well out of budget. Would be very interested if anyone knows of a way to do a manual and automation setup for a reasonable budget.

So any advice on what's the best path to take? Right now I'm thinking Option 1 is probably best for me but if I could a manual/CNC setup on my 833TV I think that would be perfection.


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## gradient (Feb 3, 2021)

I've been using a Tormach 1100 for about 3 years now and it's been worth every penny we spent on it.  We picked up the base machine for about $8K and have spent much more than that on tooling since so we never looked back at the price. We have been making large scale wire gratings for infrared polarizers. We can hold a groove spacing of 0.0063" across a 24 inch grating with no problem.  Our only gripe is that we wish Tormach made a bigger machine.

Good luck with your decision.


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## BGHansen (Feb 4, 2021)

Limited access in a basement shop will probably rule out a Tormach 1100.  I have one like gradient and like my machine.  I can't tell you the details, but a Tormach 440 seems to be somewhat of a red-headed stepchild.  From the little I've read, it's got some differences from the 770 and 1100, stuff that works on the 770/1100 doesn't work on the 440.  There are a few 770 owners here who will probably chime in.  There are also a number of folks with PM and Grizzly square column mills with setups in their basements who will chime in too.

Bruce


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## macardoso (Feb 4, 2021)

If you are willing to do the grunt work in a CNC conversion (especially if you already have some of the hardware), a machine conversion to CNC isn't too bad. I have a G0704 converted to CNC and I suggest you skip over it to something larger. The workspace and rigidity are much better than your Taig, but nothing compared to a Tormach 1100. Perhaps you could break down the machine to fit in your basement?

Tormach prices really seem to have shot up, so I don't think you'd touch a Tormach 1100 for less than $14-18k today.

Used industrial CNCs are out there, but you never know what condition they are in and replacement parts will be expensive. Plus they will be seriously heavy.

For my personal needs, I would want to convert a PM-940V to CNC. The weight rivals that of the Tormach 1100 and the base machine is in your door for $4300. The 5k spindle is at the low end for a CNC, but way better than most manual machines offer.


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## M.T. Pockets (Feb 4, 2021)

A Tormach 1100 is definitely out of the question. I've used a series 3 before and it was a nice machine but no way would it fit in the basement. A 770 might be doable but its getting on the too expensive side. 

The more I think about it the more I'm liking the idea of converting my 833TV but that 3krpm spindle creates a problem as I mostly do aluminum.


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