# G4003G gets Aloris QCTP, tooling, and Bison 6 jaw SetTru chuck upgrade!



## coolidge (Jan 3, 2015)

I finally had some time to complete a couple G4003G upgrades, a new 6" forged Bison 6 jaw SetTru chuck w/D1-5 back plate and an Aloris QCTP with several tool holders and a #71 parting tool.

First up the Bison...the instructions talked incoherently about machining the back plate hub to chuck for fit. I don't know what they are smoking in Poland. In any case the G4003G spindle measured within .0001 on both the face and axle so it was good to go. I mounted the Bison D1-5 back plate and measured, again face and axle within .0001 to .00015. I have .003 slop between the Bison back plate and chuck for dialing in to zero with the four SetTru screws. Plenty of depth in the back plate so the chuck hub does not contact it so I'm not seeing where this back plate needs to be machined. Darkzero??? I managed to get the chuck dialed in to aprox .0004 with my brothers .0005 indicator after my CHINA .0001 indicator fell apart internally.  I now have a Mitutoyo .0001 indicator in my Enco cart. I turned some steel rod in a quick test, finish is I improved over the factory 3 jaw chuck, TBD if its the Bison chuck or the Aloris QCTP or a combination. I used the same tool and insert.




Here I have converted over to Aloris tool holders. The studs are rock solid tight in these tools holders and the set screws don't SNAP when loosening like the China tool holders. Man just the slightest pressure on the Aloris QCTP handle grabs the tool holder, and it has plenty of crank after that to further tighten. I love that the handle is now out of the way and both left and front tool positions tighten and loosen in unison vs the factory G4003G piston QCTP where one tightens while the other loosens and you have to reposition the handle, and the handle is in the way. When tight the Aloris handle is pointed at the operator. One can reposition the handle to point in any direction.

See that #71 parting tool, I'm going to give it a test on aluminum today. I tried it on that steel rod with the coated inserts, frankly it was no better than old parting tool that steel just seems to hate these coated inserts. I get FAR better finish with the sharp polished aluminum inserts while turning and they hold up well, but the sharp aluminum parting inserts I have quickly fail on this steel. That's how I ruined the Glanze parting tool. In any case I need to do some more testing with this #71 parting tool then report back.




Here you see me setting tool heights on all the new Aloris tool holders using a tool height idea I stole from someone on the forum.


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## raven7usa (Jan 3, 2015)

Man, you've got all the cool stuff. Put my name on the top of the list if you ever think about adopting.


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## darkzero (Jan 3, 2015)

Nope, I did not face my Bison backplate. It & the chuck's mating surface are nicely blanchard ground & indicated very low TIR. The only area you should check fitment is the nose taper of the spindle & adjust accordingly if needed. The import backplates I do face, always.


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## wrmiller (Jan 3, 2015)

Well, as I don't have my lathe yet (or even know if it's on a boat yet) I guess I can't get jealous about all your goodies for the lathe.

My wish list is well stocked for mine, when I get it: Dorian starter kit, Pratt Burnerd Setrite, DROPros 2L, and whatever else I can afford. Which probably won't be much after all that and the lathe too...  :lmao:


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## darkzero (Jan 3, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Dorian starter kit, Pratt Burnerd Setrite



Nice choices!


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## wrmiller (Jan 3, 2015)

darkzero said:


> Nice choices!



What, you don't like my choice in DROs? )


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## leroy (Jan 4, 2015)

Hey Coolidge I like the tool height idea. Keep up the ideas and photos . I'm like wrmiller19 I hope the boat don't sink only mine stops at grizzly. Looks like I might need to stop at the casino to keep up with ya on the g4003g upgrades !!:thumbsup2::thumbsup2:


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## coolidge (Jan 4, 2015)

leroy said:


> Hey Coolidge I like the tool height idea. Keep up the ideas and photos . I'm like wrmiller19 I hope the boat don't sink only mine stops at grizzly. Looks like I might need to stop at the casino to keep up with ya on the g4003g upgrades !!:thumbsup2::thumbsup2:



Add this DROPro's EL400 to your list :whistle:


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## darkzero (Jan 4, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> What, you don't like my choice in DROs? )



:lmao:

Can't go wrong with DROPros. Nice, I favor lathe specific displays for use on lathes. No useless extra mill function buttons & my most favorite, they have the radius/diameter button.


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## wrmiller (Jan 4, 2015)

I too like the machine specific buttons, although mine will likely stay in Continental/diameter mode most of the time. I will also get the higher resolution glass scale for X (?) specifically for that mode.

Coolidge: Are you done upgrading this thing yet?  :lmao:


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## Boswell (Jan 4, 2015)

I installed the DroPros Magnetic scales to my G4003 a couple of months ago and it is easily one of the best things I have added to my shop. I have the same head that Coolridge shows and have not been bothered by the "extra" buttons.  

+1 for the tool height setting gizmo.


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## coolidge (Jan 4, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> I too like the machine specific buttons, although mine will likely stay in Continental/diameter mode most of the time. I will also get the higher resolution glass scale for X (?) specifically for that mode.
> 
> Coolidge: Are you done upgrading this thing yet?  :lmao:



Negative Ghost rider, on deck is a new stand, drop coolant, VFD,...perhaps CNC.


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## tmarks11 (Jan 4, 2015)

darkzero said:


> my most favorite, they have the radius/diameter button.


I don't care if the DRO has that button... so long it is in diameter mode!


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## coolidge (Jan 4, 2015)

I also upgraded the G4003G chip disposal transport this past week. :whistle:


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## darkzero (Jan 4, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> I will also get the higher resolution glass scale for X (?)  specifically for that mode.



Yup, I also have the 1µm (.0001" res) for the X axis. For the Z axis & on my mill, I'm perfectly fine with the 5µm (.0002" res) scales. Although I can live without the 1µm scale & not like I try to hold that level of tolerance, I like it a lot especially when in diametral mode.




> wrmiller19 said:
> 
> 
> > I too like the machine specific buttons, although mine will likely stay in Continental/diameter mode most of the time.
> ...



I do, I actually use the rad/dia button quite often. Most universal/mill DROs don't have the rad/dia button, just the lathe specific DROs. The preference can be set in the settings though & most people just set it for dia mode. The ES-12 on my mill does have the rad/dia button but the button is not useful on a mill.

I use the dia mode differently than most. When I'm turning down a dia, I skim the OD/ID, then I take a measurement of the OD/ID & input that value into the DRO. Then I turn to the dia I need rather than how you would do it conventionally as if using dials.

I switch to rad mode whenever I need to keep track of DOC. I use this mode for threading, grooving, & chamfering. Comes in very handy when I'm making multiples of the same part.

Although it's not a big deal I also choose the DRO that I did cause it bothers me having the Z axis labeled Y. My lathe DRO also has the tool offset function on a separate readout without having to enter a menu to get to it. That's what the 2 digit readout below is. I still need to set up more of my tools but it's a feature that is also quite handy. Since I had the choice of choosing lathe specific, might as well.


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## tmarks11 (Jan 6, 2015)

darkzero said:


> Although it's not a big deal I also choose the DRO that I did cause it bothers me having the Z axis labeled Y.


++++1.

I am going to have to take a look at the model you bought.


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## wrmiller (Jan 6, 2015)

tmarks11 said:


> ++++1.
> 
> I am going to have to take a look at the model you bought.



The DroPros 2L is also marked X and Z, in case you're interested.


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## eaw99517 (Jan 13, 2015)

Coolidge I've basically got the same set up as you do, but with a Fuerda 8" 6 jaw.  I ran into some issues with parting steel rods, especially mild steel on my 4003G.  A lot of chatter and the tool tended to dig in and snap the blade.  Tried different RPM's, parting blades and holders without much success.  I decided to try a slightly wider Cobalt HSS parting tool.  Bad choice.  Instead of snapping the blade, it broke my compound.  I did some research and it seems that it is not recommended to part mild steel with some lathes.  I replaced my compound assy. with one from a Clausing 5900 series 12 X 36 lathe.  It's a little more beefy and has more material around the dove tails but is slightly wider, which is no problem.  It reduced the chatter somewhat but I still use extreme caution when parting steel.  Aluminum is no problem.

On another note, I use a 16 X 120 Axelson lathe at work and it is a beast!  It weighs in the neighborhood of around 6,500 lbs. I can part any material with any width blade and it doesn't even whimper.  Smooth as glass.  Based on this I suspect that under certain conditions, you need to use caution when parting with the 4003G.  If you look through TUBLCAIN's video's on YouTube, he mentions that if he has to cut a mild steel rod on his 12 X 36 Atlas or Clausing lathe, he uses a hacksaw LOL!  He doesn't even attempt to part it off.

I've also done one additional modification and replaced my single phase motor with a 2HP 3-Phase unit with a VFD.  Significant improvement in the surface finish of the material.  I used to get kind of a barber pole pattern sometimes.  Couldn't feel it, but it was clearly visible. Again, tried different feeds and speeds.  All it did was change the pitch of the pattern.  Replaced the motor and added the VFD, now no more pattern and surface finish is excellent.  I don't know if there was a problem with my original motor, but I'm happy with what I've got now.


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## coolidge (Jan 13, 2015)

EAW that's great info and confirms what my brother was telling me, its just the nature of mild steel so I'm going to stop trying to fix a problem that can't be fixed. Dang you broke your compound duly noted.


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## tmarks11 (Jan 14, 2015)

I have not had any problems parting steel on my lathe.  On paper, my G0709 sounds bigger than the G4003G, but they are the same dimensions where it counts (same bed width, similar cross slide/compound).

my advise is to ditch the HSS parting blade.  It is too flexible, and can cause problems even on relatively enormous machines.  Get a good indexible carbide parting blade.  I prefer the kind that has a clamp with a locking screw (I have seen too many pictures of damaged parting tool holders that use a slide in insert).

this is what I use:
http://www.iscar.com/eCatalog/Family.aspx?fnum=557&mapp=TG&app=51&GFSTYP=M

The advantage of this tool is it is much more rigid, and the cutting tip is wider than the rest of the blade, so the workpiece won't grab it.

Use a small triangle to make sure the blade is exactly perpendicular to the workpiece, and feed by hand. Disadvantage is it is limited to 1.4" diameter.

If you have to use HSS, than drip some tapping oil into the cut periodically to keep the worpiece from grabbing the blade. You could also grind some positive rack into the top of the blade.

I couldn't imagine giving-up on the ability to part on a lathe... It is such a fundamental part of any job.


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