# some oxyacy questions



## SE18

OK, here are some of my beginner questions:

1. I've got a victor. I want to get some more tips. Will all models fit victor or only victor and anyone know an inexpensive source?

2. Some applications require acetylene only (without oxygen). My instruction book didn't mention this but to use acetylene only, do I still need to connect the oxygen tank to the regulator? 

3. Also, if I'm using acetylene only for a while, it will deplete that bottle first before the oxygen. By deplete, I mean 1/7 of the bottle. So if the bottle is 49 cu ft, that means I can use only 7 cu ft of what reads on the high pressure gauge, correct?

4. I don't have my instruction book with me but when shutting down, you always shut down the oxygen in the torch first, correct? That's what most videos show, but there's one guy who shuts off the acetylene first.

5. When cutting this weekend, my neighbor told me to hold it at an angle so as not to get splatter welded onto the tip. But when punching holes thru steel, you need to hold 90 degrees. Is screwing up a tip with splatter common? The inner cone has to be on the work, which means your torch is pretty close which is kind of scary as far as splatter goes

Thanks!

Dave


----------



## psychodelicdan

Hey Se18
1. You will need to use victor "style tips"there are a number if after market makers of them. 

2. The only application I know of that is act only is a air/act tip for low temp soldering like on  radiator. 

3.   I really don't know what you are referring to. You can use the cylinder until it's empty. 

4. When shutting down the torch I believe the "correct way " is oxy  first so it won't make a snap sound when you turn things off. I bet 99% if welders shut off the fuel first to prevent filling the shop with little black fluffy boogers.ether   way will work

5. Again I can't see what he's thinking I'm sure he right about it. Me. Keep it nice and square, plum and smooth for a nice cut. 

When using a torch, aside from the big safety issues you will develop your own style. What you are most comfortable with. Get a good Victor cutting manual it will answer most all your questions. 


Hope some of this helps. Be safe it can make some really nasty burns if you get careless. Don't ask me how I know 
Dan welder for 30 years


Master of unfinished projects


----------



## Ulma Doctor

acetylene torches can be used for soldering and silver soldering for plumbing and refrigeration.
 my father was a plumber i learned to use the gas at an early age , a special torch is used to mix with the air.
it howls pretty loud when they are in use and make a pretty hot flame.
it smokes bad and makes drifting carbon spiderwebs at low setting as you crank up the knob it burns bright orange yellow then stabilizes as the air gets drawn through the tip and dosen't seem to put off any smoke in soldering.
good luck!


----------



## pjf134

Acetylene only will produce soot, I do thing you are reading a soldering book which uses a B tank (plumber tank) acet. and room air is mixed at the handle so you will not get the soot and a nice flame for water copper pipe. The high pressure gauge on the tank is tank pressure and will tell you when you are running low and the low side is for line pressure and should be adjusted for the process you are doing. 10 lbs plus or minus is for normal stuff and is dependent on what you are doing. I hope this helps.
 Paul


----------



## Tony Wells

The only acetylene only rig I know of is like this Prest-O-Lite torch:

http://www.gesswein.com/p-1423-prest-o-lite-4-in-1-torch-set.aspx

Lots of plumbers use them. No oxygen, just room air. No caterpillars.


----------



## SE18

OK, thanks, just to clarify then:

I can use all the acetylene I want to from the bottle. I probably misunderstood what the 1/7 rule is, thinking I should  not use more than 1/7 of the acetylene bottle.

appreciate all help!


----------



## DaveD

The 1/7 number you are thinking about is the rate you can use acetelene out of the tank. The old rule of thumb was 1/7 of the tanks capacity per hour. Try to use it up any faster and you start to draw in the acetone from the acetelene tank which can lead to all kinds of problems.

There is some published literature that suggests that number should be closer to 1/15th per hour which is even more conservative by a factor of 2.

From a welding/brazing standpoint the pressures set for the torch have all to do with the thickness of steel being welded. IIRC my set has both gasses in the 3-5# range for up to 1/8" steel.


----------



## SE18

ohhhhh, rate, not amount. OK! That's good news. I suppose if the pressures I use are the recommended ones for the tips and job I'm doing, then I should be fine.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Acetylene can't be used over 15 psig , the regulators for it will not go past 15 for safety purposes.
dependent on tip size and type you'll run Acetylene at 3-7 psi generally.


----------



## psychodelicdan

Last air/acet tip I saw for a Victor set was 20! Years ago. It screwed right on like a regular tip. Yes the ones for plumbing are cool. 
DanO


Master of unfinished projects


----------



## Grumpy Gator

If you don't use your O/A every day back out your reg screws when your done  and the diaphragm will last a lot longer. 
----------Just Saying-----------G--------uch:


----------



## November X-ray

grumpygator said:


> If you don't use your O/A every day back out your reg screws when your done  and the diaphragm will last a lot longer.
> ----------Just Saying-----------G--------uch:



You really should do this every time you use them as it is a true safety concern not too, especially on the higher pressured oxygen bottles!


----------



## SE18

grump says to back out regulator screws:

what does 'back out' mean? Do you mean loosen the them? These are the valves closest to the cylinders, right, but not the cylinder valves of course


----------



## Grumpy Gator

My friends call me Gator, grumpy is my disposition.
Keeping it simple Turn off the round valve on the top of the tanks,then back out the handle that sets the rate of flow [ presursure].

I was taught to turn off the fuel first ,then the 02 at the torch then close the tanks and then the back out the regs if done.
```````````G````````````


----------



## jfcayron

SE18 said:


> 3. Also, if I'm using acetylene only for a while, it will deplete that bottle first before the oxygen. By deplete, I mean 1/7 of the bottle. So if the bottle is 49 cu ft, that means I can use only 7 cu ft of what reads on the high pressure gauge, correct?


While filling, it takes 7 hours to dissolve Ac into the acetone. Likewise you should not consume it faster than that, i.e. over 7 hours or 1/7 per hour.
If you have a 49 cylinder, you can adjust your regulator for a flow of MAX 7 cu/ft per hour.
There are tables that give you the cu ft/hour based on tip size and pressure.
You can use 100% of the gas, i.e. until the gauge reads 0.


SE18 said:


> 4. I don't have my instruction book with me but when shutting down, you always shut down the oxygen in the torch first, correct? That's what most videos show, but there's one guy who shuts off the acetylene first.


ALWAYS cut FUEL first.


SE18 said:


> 5. When cutting this weekend, my neighbor told me to hold it at an angle so as not to get splatter welded onto the tip. But when punching holes thru steel, you need to hold 90 degrees. Is screwing up a tip with splatter common? The inner cone has to be on the work, which means your torch is pretty close which is kind of scary as far as splatter goes


The steel splatter will not stick hard to the copper of the tip. 
You may have to stop, clean etc. but it will not destroy your tip if you use common sense.


----------



## SE18

OK, thanks for the tips!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## twstoerzinger

Another safety rule I was taught, is to ALWAYS leave the tank wrench on the acetylene valve. Usually there is even a small chain connecting the wrench to the tank so your co-worker cannot borrow your gas wrench while you are busy welding. In the event of a broken hose, fitting, a fire or whatever, you don't want to be looking for who took the wrench so you can stop the gas flow. Some of the old timers I worked with also insisted on only opening the acetylene valve about 1 or 2 turns - enough not to restrict the gas flow, but less turns to close in an emergency. I have never had a problem, but apparently some of these old timers had been through some panic situations (involving confined spaces or on high structural steel.

As far as operating pressure of the gas, it helps me to know why it is limited to 15 psi. Pure acetylene pressurized above about 29 psi is capable of violent explosions when the acetylene breaks down into benzene and vinylacetlylene (and maybe some other stuff). This reaction releases lots of heat and does not require any oxygen to proceed. The 15 psi max acetylene gas pressure gives you a safety factor of 2:1 in staying away from the explosive range. As pointed out below, the acetylene is absorbed in acetone when stored in the tank so that solution is stable. Plus, the inside of the tank looks something that looks like a solid cinder block which keeps the solution from slopping around. (There is a fancy name for the cinder block stuff, but I don't recall what it is). While you are burning gas, the acetylene is boiling out of the acetone solution at the same rate you are consuming gas. The gas has to find its way through up the cinder block to get out of the tank. 

 Like others have pointed out below, you typically run at gas pressures well under the 15 psi limit.

Terry S.


----------



## Uglydog

I am a Smith guy, my welding Instructor was a Smith guy.

You might find Jody's links worth checking out:

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/cutting-torch-tips.html

Or purchase: Oxy-Acetylene Torch Cutting by _Steve Bleile_.
I watched it a couple times. -- Good stuff.

http://www.weldingvideos.com/oawelding.html


----------



## SE18

OK thx Smith and Harris PDFs seems to be better for me as I'm a visual person. The victor pdf was exactly like my owners manual (same thing), and had a lot of writing in it. I'm not big on writing as I enjoyed the picture ones better. I'm reading all of them and this weekend will begin to play after several weeks of reading and videos so I don't do stupid


----------



## SE18

I'm watching the first video in the first link you provided. Very informative. One quote to remember is: "if you want a new idea, read an old book"


----------



## jfcayron

Franz© said:


> some guy on some board who claims he knows how to weld.


Point taken.
However I would like you to give a bit more credit to our members. I did receive formal classroom and practical training in OA and arc welding. So did many of us.


----------



## Uglydog

Franz© said:


> The thing that has baffled me for over 10 years on the Internet is where so many experts came from.I've only been making metal do things it didn't want to do for 50 years, and I know a dirty trick or 90, but at least half of what I read on welding sites written by experts amazes me.What I do not understand is why with ESAB providing over 50 pages of O/A welding, soldering and brazing information at http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/OXY_handbook/589oxy1_1.htm on line is why so many people rely on some guy on some board who claims he knows how to weld.




My full time job is teaching Paramedics.
I did a very, very short time on the national lecture circuit.
Drove me nuts to think that somebody was paying money to some self proclaimed Subject Matter Expert (SME).
Same happens in the classroom. What makes me an expert? Am I any better than the thousands of other Paramedics?
I  also authored some chapters in EMS textbooks. The people that wrote the  ESAB and other expert sources are possibly no better than I was when I  stopped pretending. 
My post is not about me.
The real question is: What is an expert?
Will these References be around in 50 or 100 hundred years? And still be "go to" sources? 
The Bible, Koran, Shakespeare, Dickens, Hemingway, Connolly, Manly...


----------



## jocat54

Expert= Drip under pressure)


----------



## Tony Wells

By the same token, some of the ESAB authors may well participate on some of the Internet forums, so a blanket statement like that is really a bit unfair. Painting with too broad a brush. That brush would have to include you yourself, and we generally try not to make such generalizations here, since we don't really know each other well enough to judge qualifications. And it's a given that what you read on most any forum is an individual's own opinion based (sometimes, at least) on his experience. I'll certainly grant that there are a great many posters on the Internet on any news-feed as well as any forum on any subject that love to spout off their own brand of "knowledge", and we all know it's apt to be rubbish. That's why some even qualify their advice with "YMMV", or "This is worth exactly what you paid for it". 

It's just the nature of the beast. I totally agree that there simply is no substitute for a hands on teacher, or at least someone watching over your shoulder as you try to learn. The Internet will never replace that, no matter what they try in school these days. I was actually taught by my grandfather holding my hand as I welded, and I'm not ashamed of that. I was 12. But I learned to weld. I held a woman's hand as I taught her to weld. Worked out pretty good. No Internet involved. 

I also agree about the Certification Mills......just like most professions, just spend the bucks and a little time, and you can get a paper that says you are "IT", and sometimes that will get you on the job. Staying is another matter. Can't do.....can't stay. That was my hiring motto.


----------



## sniggler

One of the original questions had to do with piercing with a torch. When making a hole in the middle of a plate i like to really get it hot before engaging the oxygen lever that is seen as the surface getting wet i would be holding the tip about 1/4 inch off the work for heating as i hit the oxygen lever i simultaneously lift the torch tip a little which reduces the amount of splash back on the tip. 

If this is being done to make same a 4 inch hole in a plate so the inside of the circle is waste then by all means angle the tip a little as you engage the lever this way the splash back can go away from you and the tip. This is one of those skills the takes practice. Also when you engage the oxygen go full on don't feather the lever you want to make the hole the first time every time. On thicker plate there's going to be blow back before you make it through you have to hold through the fireworks and wear good personal protective equipment. This is an operation that can really over heat the torch head and cause burning inside the torch head.

Bob


----------



## Uglydog

Tony Wells said:


> By the same token, some of the ESAB authors may well participate on some of the Internet forums, so a blanket statement like that is really a bit unfair. Painting with too broad a brush. That brush would have to include you yourself, and we generally try not to make such generalizations here, since we don't really know each other well enough to judge qualifications. And it's a given that what you read on most any forum is an individual's own opinion based (sometimes, at least) on his experience. I'll certainly grant that there are a great many posters on the Internet on any news-feed as well as any forum on any subject that love to spout off their own brand of "knowledge", and we all know it's apt to be rubbish. That's why some even qualify their advice with "YMMV", or "This is worth exactly what you paid for it".
> 
> It's just the nature of the beast. I totally agree that there simply is no substitute for a hands on teacher, or at least someone watching over your shoulder as you try to learn. The Internet will never replace that, no matter what they try in school these days. I was actually taught by my grandfather holding my hand as I welded, and I'm not ashamed of that. I was 12. But I learned to weld. I held a woman's hand as I taught her to weld. Worked out pretty good. No Internet involved.
> 
> I also agree about the Certification Mills......just like most professions, just spend the bucks and a little time, and you can get a paper that says you are "IT", and sometimes that will get you on the job. Staying is another matter. Can't do.....can't stay. That was my hiring motto.



If any of my comments have been unclear, then please forgive me. I had no intention of criticizing or making specific reference to ESAB, other authors, videos or posters. ESAB and other sources really are experts. However, sometimes us noobs look to other sources. It becomes difficult to sort out the expert from the also ran, and wanna be. Best I can suggest to anyone is what I suggested at the beginning of this thread: what does the manufacture say? ESAB and other manufactures are likely the absolute best sources for accurate, and safe information.


----------



## Ray C

Now you've done it.  I hate you guys.  You made me go out and rent an ACY tank...


[Just kidding of course, I have some steel too big for the bandsaw and too thick for the plasma cutter].


----------



## Uglydog

RayC,
If you really don't have Acetylene and are planning only to cut. Then consider Propane.
It's only good for cutting, but seems to do ok, can be purchased nearly anywhere, and is much less expensive!
The experts argue about appropriate regulators and hoses.
I went with Smiths recommendations.


----------



## Ray C

Yes, I use propane tips (two piece, recessed orifice) all the time.

The real issue here is that I picked-up some ACY under the guise of needing it for cutting when I'm really planning to try my hand at welding.  -Haven't done it since I was 17 or 18 years old.



Ray





Uglydog said:


> RayC,
> If you really don't have Acetylene and are planning only to cut. Then consider Propane.
> It's only good for cutting, but seems to do ok, can be purchased nearly anywhere, and is much less expensive!
> The experts argue about appropriate regulators and hoses.
> I went with Smiths recommendations.


----------



## AndyA

Also be aware victor style tips come in two torch sizes.  There's a 1 and a 3.  There may be more sizes.  Where did size 2 go?  I've only seen 1 and 3.  I'd hate for you to plunk down money just to find out you can't use the tip in your torch.  There's also another size number that specifies the size of the orifices.  So you can buy a torch size 1 tip in orifice sizes: 000, 00, 0, 1, 2, 3, etc.  I think they refer to the torch size as "series".

Some guys swear you should cut the fuel off first.  Other guys swear you should cut off the oxygen first.  The manual for my victor torch says cut the oxygen off first.  So guess which way I do it.  Read and follow the manual that matches your equipment.  Easy enough.

The victor tips for acetylene aren't recommended for propane.  You might be able to use them. I've never tried.  I only use about two tips sizes, so I just bought the tips made to work with propane.  These tips have "GPN" in their part number.  Again they come in (at least) two sizes, 1 and 3.  

Tips will cost you somewhere around $12 each and $15 for the GPN ones.  They last me a couple of years so it's not a big expense.  If you increase your torch height after you start the cut, you can avoid clogging the tip and they last longer.  Also get a set of small drills or "pin files" to clean the holes.  Try not to increase the size of the holes when cleaning.

See the attached chart to relate orifice sizes to the thickness of metal you want to cut.  You can use a larger tip to cut a particular size of metal.  Just be aware the cut may be a little more ragged.  This can save you a little money if you don't want to buy several sizes right away.  I find I usually put in the #1 tip and go with it.  Your steadiness of hand will mean more on a clean cut than the oversized tip.

A 4 lbs hammer is great for smoothing up the end of the cut.  It knocks off any slag, but also beats down most of the little ripples.  This gives you a consistant fit-up for welding.


----------



## Ray C

Hi Andy,

That's a nice chart.  Do you happen to have one for propane?  I do very little torch cutting and a quick reference for both acy and propane would save me some time.

Thanks




AndyA said:


> Also be aware victor style tips come in two torch sizes. There's a 1 and a 3. There may be more sizes. Where did size 2 go? I've only seen 1 and 3. I'd hate for you to plunk down money just to find out you can't use the tip in your torch. There's also another size number that specifies the size of the orifices. So you can buy a torch size 1 tip in orifice sizes: 000, 00, 0, 1, 2, 3, etc. I think they refer to the torch size as "series".
> 
> Some guys swear you should cut the fuel off first. Other guys swear you should cut off the oxygen first. The manual for my victor torch says cut the oxygen off first. So guess which way I do it. Read and follow the manual that matches your equipment. Easy enough.
> 
> The victor tips for acetylene aren't recommended for propane. You might be able to use them. I've never tried. I only use about two tips sizes, so I just bought the tips made to work with propane. These tips have "GPN" in their part number. Again they come in (at least) two sizes, 1 and 3.
> 
> Tips will cost you somewhere around $12 each and $15 for the GPN ones. They last me a couple of years so it's not a big expense. If you increase your torch height after you start the cut, you can avoid clogging the tip and they last longer. Also get a set of small drills or "pin files" to clean the holes. Try not to increase the size of the holes when cleaning.
> 
> See the attached chart to relate orifice sizes to the thickness of metal you want to cut. You can use a larger tip to cut a particular size of metal. Just be aware the cut may be a little more ragged. This can save you a little money if you don't want to buy several sizes right away. I find I usually put in the #1 tip and go with it. Your steadiness of hand will mean more on a clean cut than the oversized tip.
> 
> A 4 lbs hammer is great for smoothing up the end of the cut. It knocks off any slag, but also beats down most of the little ripples. This gives you a consistant fit-up for welding.
> 
> View attachment 53022


----------



## sniggler

We use propane cutting on some jobs it is considered safer. you need to use a different tip as I recall it has more smaller preheat holes. Oxy/Propane does not burn as hot. I is a bit tricky to ignite, turn on the propane to the torch head and then just barely crack the o2 light with striker and then adjust as for oxy/acetylene. It is always entertaining to watch someone who doesn't know this struggle a bit. Some of the newer oxy/propane tips light normally.

Bob


----------



## SE18

do you need a different regulator too for propane? I assume you can only cut with propane, not do any welding. This weekend I'll likely fire up and do some welding but they called me in to work tomorrow which sucks as it takes time away from my toys

I believe, btw, that my victor came with a zero and 2 welding tip and a cutting one too. I've only used the cutting one so far


----------



## AndyA

The propane chart


----------



## sniggler

Yes it is a different regulator and yes you can weld and braze with oxy/propane.

bob


----------



## MikeH

When I worked in the welding dept of am A/C manufacturer, I spent days brazing up drip pans every month with oxy/propane. It works very well for brazing steel & copper. It does require a larger tip than acetylene. Light as retracted above. It cuts well too.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## sniggler

Oxy/propane and oxy/acetylene welding are both archaic, oxy propane is not as hot you want a slightly carburizing flame and to hold a little father off the work as that's where the heat is with the propane. It won't weld thicker steel and it doesn't have the consistant cosmetics that a good oxy/acetylene rig in the right hands can produce. Repair quality in a pinch.

bob


----------



## jfcayron

Franz© said:


> PLEASE tell me how steel can be WELDED to steel with O/P.


With a torch 
The flame temperature is lower than AC but higher than the melting point of steel.
Granted, you cannot weld thick/large pieces, but it is feasible. 
I would not choose it, though.

Hope it helps.


----------



## sniggler

Franz,

I did it yesterday with oxy/propane because i knew your question was just bait and i know bait when i smell it. two old key hole saw blades clamped together flat to flat welding the edges together no issue for me no lack of fusion i used filler metal but could have just melted them together. i am not saying it is a goto welding process just that it can be done, and be strong. Forge welding with a propane forge is no issue, i like coal better.

bob


----------



## jfcayron

Franz© said:


> Sticking crap on top of steel is NOT welding steel.



Welding is welding. I do not recall mentioning anything about crap or sticking.

Please change your tone, you are becoming offensive.

Thank you.


----------



## Rbeckett

I am becoming a little concerned about the tenor of this thread by a couple of the membership.  There are ways to do things that do not come out of the book or the welding bible by Lincoln.  That said, as long as the suggestions are not dangerous I see no problem with the discussion.  However two of you are turning this into a "whos is bigger"contest.  That will stop, or I will let both of the offenders have a vacation to consider their approach to there fellows.  It is fine to disagree, but it is not fine to attack anothers percieved intelegence.  So, Final warning, lets get back to the original topic and stop the BS.  I mean it!!!!!

MODERATOR
Bob


----------



## Richard King

I saw an article in Popular Mechanics a few years ago where a guy used a car battery and jumper cables to weld a part when he was broke down in the woods.  It never seemed possible and I always wondered why he had welding rob and a helmet in his pick-up.   Sounds fishy to me....Has anyone ever tried it?   Does it work?   A Macgyver moment?


----------



## Rbeckett

Richard,
You definately can use a coat hanger and a car battery with a set of jumper cables to fuse something temporarily.  It wont be pretty and not very tough, but it might get you 10 miles out of the woods closer to home and the trailer.  Bet he didnt have a helment he just looked away and hoped he was on the joint.  In hard situations neccessity is the mother of invention,  Not recomended for daily use, but has been done before.  When I used to go MX Bike camping I carried a whole selection of stuff on the trailer to use in camp.  Some of the best times I ever had were sitting around the campfire telling lies and boasting about how fast and smooth I was all day.  Dirt bikers have the get it going whatever it takes approach to their enjoyment.  And nothing short of a blown up engine will keep us from riding the next day.  I sure do miss the bon fires and lies, but I'm too old and too fragile to do it like a kid anymore.  This thing they put in my right arm is fragile as glass, so that ended MX and the port ended diving.   Have a super great day and hope this helps...
Bob


----------



## Ray C

I'm glad you said that.  12V at around 400 Amps (5KW) is not something to mess with.  When I was a mechanic (late 70's) I accidentally dropped a 5/8 wrench and while fumbling to grab it, rammed it across some battery terminals.  I don't know how I escaped injury but, the wrench (snap-on no less) got the top 1" melted off along with the positive terminal and most of the plastic case.  Completely gone in an instant!  The wrench ended-up welded to the metal battery holder.  I was very concerned as I had severe blue "flash bulb"  spots in my vision for the whole day.  Somehow, I only got a very minor burn on my hand. That was a close call...

Ray




Franz© said:


> YES, it can, the first electric arc welding was done with battery & bare rod.
> 
> IF you don't know what you're doing you WILL wear battery parts and Sulphuric Acid.
> I have done it.  I had a sheet of 3/4 plywood between me and the *batteryS*, and knew how to regulate the current before I struck the arc.
> 
> I do NOT recommend an unknowing person attempting to do it, so I will NOT provide additional information on current regulation.  I will state the information on Pirate 4x4 is DEAD WRONG.  For your safety and the safety of those around you do not try welding from a vehicle battery.


----------



## GK1918

Ray you are one luckey guy.   I remember yrs ago in an attempt to jump a dozer.  As I approach to
clamp the batt terminal the other guy at the same instant steps on the starter.  Maybe i went into shock
I didnt know if I still had ears my head blown off, my hat was 25 ft away.  deaf for an hour.  I too luckey
I didnt get that stuff in my eyes.  Big dent in the pickups hood.


----------



## Rbeckett

Shorted lead acid storage batteries are no joke.  The create hydrogen which is explosive and super unstable.  A 24 volt heavy tractor system generally produces around 1000 amps in a surge, so the explosions are spectacular when a battery gasses out and gets a spark.   I too do not recomend attempting this but as stated earlier, in a pinch a long way from the trailer you might get it good enough to limp back closer or even all the way back to camp.   I have used a tie down to hold a tie rod and a scisssor jack to push a ball joint back on in a pinch, but the high speed day was over and limp mode became the goal to get home.  Let's try to get back to the discussion of Oxy/ Acy tips and tricks and discussing the merits of LPG, Propane and Nat gas as a fuel.  I'm sure the OP would appreciate an answer to his queeries and it was a good discussion til it veered off course.  We can always start a "Jury rig" thread later.

Bob


----------



## SE18

Hi guys, while you might not wish to mess with car batteries (I use car batteries for my R/C charger which it's intended to be hooked up to out in the field), I know you can build a resistance soldering outfit using a car battery charger. I number of folks have done this b/c a good resistance soldering set can cost upwards of $400. It's a someday project for me like so many other backlogged projects:

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/solderer.pdf


oops, veered off my own thread (just read below reply). Sorry

Dave


----------



## Ray C

And to bring this back on track, here's a photo of a propane cutting tip.  They are two-piece and it looks like some of the gas and Oxy are mixed inside the cone.  Also the orifices are set back a tiny bit.  I tried using propane with a normal ACY tip and you can't get a flame out of it.

Also, and this is slighly off topic, just want to mention that the harbor freight torch that's show in the photos takes Victor style tips.  The tips for propane have a numbering like: nnn-3-GPN.  nnn is the tip size like 000, 00, 0, 1, 2 etc...  "3" is the size to fit that style torch and the GPN, I think it stands for GasPropaNe -but I'm not sure about that.  The HF torch handle shown is equivalent to what some people call the Victor "medium" torch.  HF has a bigger torch and I do not know about it's compatability with Victor components.  You're on your own to figure that part out.

BTW:  I have the HF setup in that black plastic case.  Seems to work fine.  It's my understanding that different regulators are typically used because, propane can run at higher pressures than Acy.  I never come close to the upper limit.  Also, the official hoses for Propane have a higher pressure rating -again, I never come close to operating at the higher pressures.  -Usually around 3-5PSI on the juice.  A couple times I've gone up to 10 but I have rare need for that.

Ray


----------



## SE18

Thx, helpful to know which brands compatible w/victor. Here's my setup. Since I bought it used I don't know where it came from or anything like that.

My 2 tips have stamped on them SKW2 and SKW0 so assuming it's a zero and two

The cutting thing has stuff stamped all over the place:

SKH7A
CFT
D
F
CU
SLCA1260
200PSIG Max
Victor Model 200 ACT0

maybe someone can shed meaning on all the gibberish


----------



## Ray C

In my very non-professional view of these matters, regulators are regulators.  They either work well or don't and thus, I don't care if they're Smith or Victor.  All regulators have standard sized fittings to fit the bottles and hoses.

I also have no knowledge or preference about the different torch handles but, can tell you that Smith and Victor are the two main ones.  They have different nozzle fittings and each company offers several size torches.  That is where you must purchase the proper type replacement.  If you remove some tips and show pictures of the base and also post a pic of your torch, maybe you can deduce (or someone who knows can chime-in) which type you have.


Ray


----------



## SE18

no problem. Thx. Before I get new tips I'll keep using the ones I've got for practice. BTW, been doing cutting for better part of the afternoon. My cuts are pretty gruesome. Some of you guys do nice clean cuts but the slag is pretty bad. probably beginner mistakes.

 My biggest learner mistake was turning the regulator the wrong way (like a faucet), but now that that's solved, life is good. I'll try some welding later but preparing for a 3 week trip to colorado, which is work related so after about a day I may not be able to reply.

BTW, I was welding in the rain. I didn't know if that's OK or not. With non-oxyacy like stick and mig I heard wind and rain could be bad but the oxyacy seemed to work just fine


----------



## Rbeckett

Hated looking slag and uneven cut lines are from improper angle and preheat coupled with too much O2.  Try tipping the torch in the expected direction of travel so the flame preheats the metal in the direction you are going.  Once the metal gets a translucent red, but not sagging, feather in the high pressure cutting oxidizer and move as quickly as you can without blowing slag back up from the cut.  This should yeild a nice smooth cut with fine ridges and very little dross on the back of the cut.  You are probably lingering too long and trying to get the high pressure to blow out liquid metal.  It will do it but it leaves a lot of slag and dross and makes a very ragged uneven cut line in the material and a huge HAZ (Heat Affected Zone) which will make further welding difficult or impossible. .  There is a happy speed that all materials cut at and it is counter intuitive since you dont really melt the metal with the preheat, you just get it really close to melting and use the oxidizer to remove it and blow it from the cut.  Give that a try and let us know if that helped clean up your edges and cuts, as well as reduce your next operation cleaning and grinding.

Bob


----------



## SE18

OK, I just returned from Colorado where I purchased 2 tips from Harbor Freight, per someone's recommendations (I have a victor). I just discovered the tips too big, not the tips themselves, of course, but the threaded portion. I'm hoping I can find the correct tips from somewhere! I posted the specs on the tips earlier in this thread but so far no one could identify them. Hoping someone can assist.

In the photos the 2 tips on the left are HF too big and the tip on the right is the Victor that fits

I have to leave for a few days to Cleveland so can't get any welding in and may have to check this post when I return.

Much thanks

Dave


----------



## jpfabricator

I have used propane before, pretty good quality cuts on simi-clean metal. Just remember its cooler than act, so give yourself some more preheat time. As the splater is concerned, I worked with a welder who would smack the flame off the end of the tip with the backside of his striker. he said the small pop would clean out any splatter and keep the tip clean. I dont know if thats true, but I never saw him have to clean his torch tip!


----------



## Ray C

Dave,

Take a look down at post #53.  You must have the same torch size as mine which takes a 000-3-GPN or 00-3-GPN or 0-3-GPN... etc.

That larger tip you ended-up with is for large Victor torch and HF sells a version of that one too.

Here's one of the exact units I purchased on eBay.  This dealer sells 2-packs for $9.99 and 4 bucks shipping.  I purchase 4 sizes (8 tips) and he combined and charged 4 bucks shipping for the hole bunch.  You can't beat that with a stick.


Ray

EDIT:  Oops... Someone PM'd me to notify me of my blunder of not including the link...   http://www.ebay.com/itm/370516746739?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649






SE18 said:


> OK, I just returned from Colorado where I purchased 2 tips from Harbor Freight, per someone's recommendations (I have a victor). I just discovered the tips too big, not the tips themselves, of course, but the threaded portion. I'm hoping I can find the correct tips from somewhere! I posted the specs on the tips earlier in this thread but so far no one could identify them. Hoping someone can assist.
> 
> In the photos the 2 tips on the left are HF too big and the tip on the right is the Victor that fits
> 
> I have to leave for a few days to Cleveland so can't get any welding in and may have to check this post when I return.
> 
> Much thanks
> 
> Dave


----------



## Ulma Doctor

[QUOTE, I worked with a welder who would smack the flame off the end of the tip with the backside of his striker. he said the small pop would clean out any splatter and keep the tip clean. I dont know if thats true, but I never saw him have to clean his torch tip![/QUOTE]


my dad used to do the same thing i never knew or asked why... he just did it.
hmmm i'll have to ask him.


----------



## SE18

thanks, Ray


----------



## SE18

OK, back. Been playing with the setup having fun. 

My Acetylene tank then goes to 2 pounds and then about the light of a birthday candle, meaning it is out of gas. 

However, my oxygen still reads 65 pounds.

So here's the dumb question.

1. Take both bottles off and exchange them
2. Only fill Aceteylene?

Sort of wish they'd both have quit at same time as it's a good 30 minutes to the place that does the refills.


----------



## DaveD

You are just about out of oxygen too. Get them both exchanged. Start looking for bigger tanks. Eventually you will get tired of exchanging the little ones. Bigger tanks will also be more economical.


----------



## Uglydog

SE18 said:


> OK, back. Been playing with the setup having fun.
> 
> My Acetylene tank then goes to 2 pounds and then about the light of a birthday candle, meaning it is out of gas.
> 
> However, my oxygen still reads 65 pounds.
> 
> So here's the dumb question.
> 
> 1. Take both bottles off and exchange them
> 2. Only fill Aceteylene?
> 
> Sort of wish they'd both have quit at same time as it's a good 30 minutes to the place that does the refills.



As DaveD wrote:
1) Replace both.
2) Get larger tanks. Acetylene will run much better and safer when using larger cfm if your are using a larger tank. 
3) Eventually, you will notice that you always run out of gas just before you finish the job, and your LWS is closed for the holiday. You might solve this by getting full size back up bottles.


----------



## SE18

thanks, back to craigs list again.

It's memorial day and I want to weld but have no more gas.

Why didn't someone tell me to get larger tanks! LOL (kidding)

seriously, I didn't think gas welding would be this addictive


----------



## SE18

sorry, I'm so full of questions. When I get new tanks, they'll be chained and stored upright, obviously.

Now, where to put them?

My current set is located inside the house in basement. My outdoor shed and garage would also work but temps probably get to 120degF in summer. I'm assuming that storing tanks in that sort of heat is dangerous. Is that correct?


----------



## davidh

my self, I would be concerned with tanks in the basement.  leak= potential bomb.  not a good idea.  

no garage ? 

 humm, ive seen tanks stored in service trucks like enclosed vans, and also strapped to the side of a pickup box. . no problems unless theres a crash and something breaks the valve.  

storage shed, i'd say ok, as long as its in a safe area.  

gheesh, I cringe thinking about your tanks in the  basement. . . . . . . . . .   can't you strap them to an outside wall outside the house and run the hoses and torch thru an open window when your using them, then back outside with the torch when your finished ?  

however, I do remember having mine in my basement when I was young and a bit less safety minded .


----------



## SE18

I said I have a garage. I was concerned with heat.


----------



## Rbeckett

I generally go through twice as much O2 as acetylene.  So if you have a 54 CUFT acetylene tank you should look for at leas 110 CUFT O2 tank.  I always buy the biggest owner tanks I can get, or lease the largest tanks they have so I can cut down on the Saturday afternoon out of gas situations.  I also keep a spare bottle of both just in case the big bottles run out at an inopportune time.  It was kind of an expensive luxury way back when but over the years those spare tanks have saved my bacon a few times.  Just invest a little at a time and it won't hurt quite so bad.  I also use Gas Pony at the local TSC so I can get gas on Sunday if I really need to finish a project.  Good luck and don't forget to restrain them bottles wherever you end up putting them.  You could move them to a slab outside with a small tin roof and you would be golden.  That's where I have my air compressor.  The slab is just big enough for the comp and I sheeted the top and sides with sheet metal and it cuts down the noise and heat in the shop noticeably.

Bob


----------



## davidh

SE18 said:


> I said I have a garage. I was concerned with heat.



ooops, see the garage noted.   anyway, heat should not be a problem.  ask the supplier.


----------



## SE18

0K, thanks. I'll move em in garage. I'll check around to see prosand cons about buy/rent/ have TSC and AirGas within 10 miles.

practicing on some old railway spikes and plates that are rusted. I should probably grind the rust away to practice. Anyway, I haven't made anything yet, just cutting and fusion welding until I get some coat hangers to play around with.


----------



## Uglydog

OA is a lot of fun. 
Almost as fun as TIG.
Careful welding gets addictive. 
Be safe, and please let us know if there is anything we can do to leverage your success and safety.


----------



## Codered741

Heat shouldn't be a problem, at least weather wise.  I store my tanks out in the garage, out of the sun, which in the Nevada summers gets up to about 125+ deg.  UGH!!!  I have never had a problem, and don't think I ever will.  However, I am wary of leaving them in the sun for too long.  Luckily, the hose that I have is long enough to reach all the way to the end of the driveway without moving the tanks, so I rarely have to.  Driving them to be filled is the longest they are ever in the sun.  

Go to your supplier and ask to see how they store them.  Mine just stores them under cover (usually, not always), flammable gasses out of the sun, under proper cover.  But they don't keep them inside in the summer.  

Acetylene tanks do have a thermal plug in the bottom of the tank, which is designed to melt out and release the contents in the event of a fire, but don't let go till around 600-700 deg.  

Also, 

I was always taught to turn off the fuel gas before the oxygen, for two reasons.  First and foremost, oxygen is not flammable or poisonous, so letting excess out into the shop is not a big deal.  So if you forget to turn it off, well you are out of oxygen, but that's the biggest problem, and oxygen is cheaper.  Second, because acetylene is the entire fuel and heat portion of the fire triangle in this equation, once it is gone, there is no more fire.  Much safer this way.  

-Cody


----------



## SE18

turn off Oxygen 1st is Victor's suggestion so as not to clog the holes. It is VICTOR SPECIFIC, not for other brands.

Anywho, went to AirGas in manassas va today. they answered questions, nice folks. Looked into bigger tank but with some of their big tanks required a different fitting for regulator.

Picked up some RG45 to weld some steel with

Picked up new mini-tanks ($57 for refills--they do trades). Of course they won't last long. And, my nice shiny new tanks are replaced by nice well weathered ones, LOL

investment for big tanks and new regs goes into the hundreds, which I didn't have at the time but someday goal

thx for all your appreciated suggestions!


----------



## SE18

Thanks, that's exactly what happened yesterday! They wanted to sell me a B tank AND a new regulator

They also told me I couldn't use a rosebud with my small setup. They said I need a new regulator and some kind of turbo torch that lets air in thru holes. That alone (no tank or anything) was nearly $400! 

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

On a different topic, it cost around $60 to exchange the tanks. If I'm doing 30 minutes of cutting and use up the fuel that comes out to $120 per hour to use the oxyacy gas. I'm thinking I need to cut my practice time down and get good really fast or spend a lot of money.

The reason it costs more (proportionately) to fill small tanks is b/c there's a handling fee involved on top of the gas/oxy fee.

I'm inclined to hang onto the small tanks even if someday I get large ones b/c if I find a nice piece of scrap (like an old Sherman tank) lying out in some field that I want to cut up for steel, the transportability factor will be there.

Thanks again for your suggestions.


----------



## SE18

I'll just use what I've got for now and dream about bigger tanks and more tips later on. So instead of a rosebed, maybe get a good bonfire going and throw the steel I want heated up into the flames and drag it out with a chain. Problem solved

I spent today mostly welding bits of metal then putting them in my vise and applying a sledge to see how the welds hold up.

I'm using a #2 tip for this and it works well for steel, both thermal and RG-45 rods if the work isn't too thin (it burns it up if too thin).

Steel that's high in carbon and more than about 5/16" thick I found hard to weld to other pieces of the same. Mild steel seems to be working well and steels moderate in carbon.

I think after twisting and test pounding welds, I'm ready to repair all my steel furniture in the house, maybe as early as tonight. It's pretty darned hot outside now.


----------



## SE18

two quik questions.

1. Can diecast be fused with steel?

2. so parts cool down quicker, is it OK to spray them from a distance with garden hose?

thanks

Hopefully I can post some photos of actual projects completed soon


----------



## Codered741

SE18 said:


> two quik questions.
> 
> 1. Can diecast be fused with steel?
> 
> 2. so parts cool down quicker, is it OK to spray them from a distance with garden hose?
> 
> thanks
> 
> Hopefully I can post some photos of actual projects completed soon



It depends on the material that the cast part is made of. Generally die cast parts are made of aluminum, Babbitt, zinc or some other low melting point material, so welding with steel is not an option. You could try to braze or solder them, but your success will really depends on what material you are dealing with. 

If its cast iron, or steel, then there are ways to go about welding these parts. Cast aluminum may be weld able, but it it difficult to determine the alloy of aluminum without some testing. However these parts are not generally die cast. 

Quenching parts, dunking them in water or spraying them with a hose, is generally not recommended. That is unless you are not worried about potential deformation, and hardening problems. When you rapidly cool metal, especially pieces that are heated unevenly, the rate of cooling in different areas can cause the part to warp. It also causes the material to become harder and more brittle, which is sometimes desired, but doing this intentionally is a complicated process, and spraying with a garden hose is not going to do it. 

If you are just wanting to cool off test pieces, or something like that, spray away. If its a part that matters, avoid it. 

NEVER quench a brazed joint though! The rapid cooling and the different thermal expansion rates of the different materials involved in a brazed joint can cause the joint to shatter, potentially sending chunks of hot brass at your face. 
anic:

-Cody


----------



## Ray C

Can't answer #1 but for cooling with a garden hose, be apprised that quenching can make metal very hard and subsequent machining is harder (assuming you're doing machining).  That's a lesson I learned the hard way.  

Ray




SE18 said:


> two quik questions.
> 
> 1. Can diecast be fused with steel?
> 
> 2. so parts cool down quicker, is it OK to spray them from a distance with garden hose?
> 
> thanks
> 
> Hopefully I can post some photos of actual projects completed soon


----------



## SE18




----------



## SE18

guess my reply didn't make it (the text)

fixed a $30 trimmer that had snapped (the die-cast part). Fastened with nut/bolt/washer and brazed. burned some plastic in process that was holding the other end so added fastener there

it was the first time I'd ever brazed and went better than I could have imagined. used the white coated brazing rods designed for gas welding from Lowe's (Lincoln brand)

thanks for tips

this was my first project and hopefully there will be more I'll post


----------



## SE18

I just tried brazing some thin steel (duct). It works but seems you have to not dilly dally or burn hole thru it.

BTW, I'm wondering if I should save the oxyacy gas for cutting and welding and use the propane torch for brazing. Might make sense?

Also, I am thinking to eventually get a oxy/propane setup to save on some cost; either that or acquire bigger oxy acy tanks from somewhere.


----------



## Codered741

SE18 said:


> I just tried brazing some thin steel (duct). It works but seems you have to not dilly dally or burn hole thru it.
> 
> BTW, I'm wondering if I should save the oxyacy gas for cutting and welding and use the propane torch for brazing. Might make sense?
> 
> Also, I am thinking to eventually get a oxy/propane setup to save on some cost; either that or acquire bigger oxy acy tanks from somewhere.



If you are trying to save money, you need to look at what you will be doing more of, brazing or welding.  I personally find that I do more cutting and welding than brazing.  Therefore, I keep a large acetylene and oxygen tank on hand.  I have a small mapp torch for everything else.  If you are going to be doing LOTS of brazing, some cutting, and very little welding, the Oxy/Propane might be the way to go.  

But cost wise, it doesn't seems practical to have both.  Double the regulators, double the torches, hoses, tips, etc.  A lot of cost just in startup.  

IMHO, a good Oxy/Acetylene rig suits the needs of most hobbyists very well.  I use my torch setup about 1-2 times a week, and only refill about every 6 months to a year.  I have to refill the propane on the grill WAY more often!

-Cody

P.S.  Looking good with the brazing!  The carbon around the joint, and the fact that your thin material is melting, is indicative of too much heat.  Try backing off with the torch a bit, you don't need that much heat for brazing.  Heat the joint until its cherry red, and dip the brazing rod into the flame and the joint until it melts onto the joint.  Once you have enough material, get rid of the rod, and let it cool.  You should have a nice coating of flux covering the joint and most everything else, which you will need to clean off!  Its a very slow process, until the brass begins to melt, then you have to move like crazy to finish the joint!


----------



## SE18

thanks, I might use my oxy/propelyne kit (the one no one likes after they buy it) for future brazing. I try to heat the larger metal more than the thinner so the thin doesn't cook off, btw

I plan to do more welding than anything else, but the portability of the oxyacy might come in handy for salvage cutting work, so I've got that in the back of my mind

although I love to use the oxyacy for welding, I'm beginning to wonder if I should simply pick up a cheap AC stick welding setup as the amount of fuel used for welding can seem to be rather expensive (unfortunately). I'm not into MIG at all, just don't care for it.


----------



## Ray C

Maybe this helps the decision process...

I do general purpose work; some machining, basic fabrication etc...  In order of usefulness and frequency of use, I go with TIG 50%, ARC 40% and Oxy/Propane 10%.  I have a plasma cutter but find it combersome and expensive so, the oxy/propane is used instead for cutting.   Also, the oxy/propane is nice for general needs like heating/sweating parts together, occasional silver solder etc...


Ray






SE18 said:


> thanks, I might use my oxy/propelyne kit (the one no one likes after they buy it) for future brazing. I try to heat the larger metal more than the thinner so the thin doesn't cook off, btw
> 
> I plan to do more welding than anything else, but the portability of the oxyacy might come in handy for salvage cutting work, so I've got that in the back of my mind
> 
> although I love to use the oxyacy for welding, I'm beginning to wonder if I should simply pick up a cheap AC stick welding setup as the amount of fuel used for welding can seem to be rather expensive (unfortunately). I'm not into MIG at all, just don't care for it.


----------



## sniggler

SE18 said:


> I love to use the oxyacy for welding, I'm beginning to wonder if I should simply pick up a cheap AC stick welding setup as the amount of fuel used for welding can seem to be rather expensive (unfortunately). I'm not into MIG at all, just don't care for it.



For general welding an ac/dc stick welder can't be beat. Oxy acetylene welding is ok in a pinch but it is mostly not practical anymore except in special applications. I wouldn't dismiss MIG out of hand especially since you can get a little 110 volt wire feed welder so cheaply. The old lincoln tombstone ac/dc model stick welder used to be the standard farm and small shop welder. I think that has changed and MIG has replaced it or at least   become the goto for farm and small shops it is much better on thin material. TIG is great but slow and a little harder to learn of coarse any tig is also a stick machine. As a starter spring for the AC/DC stick most stick welding it done DC+ (reverse polarity) so you get a wide range of electrodes you can use.

Bob


----------



## Rbeckett

Sorry to say it but welcome to the world of welding.  Gas has gone up and up consistently every year and now they are adding hazmat fees and service charges to the cost.  The days of getting a quick weld done at the local welding shop are unfortunately over.  In order for them to make money they have to charge for everything and have to charge higher prices.  It is just a part of the economy.  Mig, Tig, Stick, OA and friction all have there best uses.  Some processes are necessary like Sanitary on Stainless, others are not so critical.  In order to do what a paying customer needs you will have to offer multi process options.  Some will save you time and money, others like Tig will take time and money, but it all comes out at the end of the year on April 15th.  Don't dismiss Mig yet, it may save you in a bind and you may find that it is faster and tougher than a stick or OA joint.  Be open minded, or you can lose a lot of money pretty easy.

Bob


----------



## SE18

One of my neighbors who did a lot of oxyacy in the USMC told me to get cheaper gas, it would be best if I "incorporated." Just involves some paperwork and money, but not a lot. He said I could then get the gas and stuff a lot cheaper like contractors do. Not sure if anyone has gone this route. If the gas were cheaper, I'd be having fun all day instead of limiting myself to jobs I really need to weld, braze or cut.

Speaking of brazing, I found I can do it OK with propane or propelyene/oxy, but for large parts, nothing heats up the area as fast as oxyacy


----------



## Ray C

Setting-up an LLC (Limited Liability Corporation) business entity does not guarantee cheaper prices at the pump -not by a long shot.  Matter of fact, it may make life more difficult.  Prices are based on volume of sales in almost all cases.  Buy a lot on a regular basis (especially if it's a routine purchase of the same thing) and you might get some price breaks.  Some places might give you a little better service but this depends on the individual vendor.  One downside to an LLC is that you must establish credit under the LLC as many vendors will not take your personal credit card or check if the purhcase is invoiced to the LLC.

The upside to an LLC is just as the name implies, you have limited liability and your personal finances (real estate, savings plans etc) are protected in the event of a law suit with a judgement against you.  They can take the business, it's property and assets -but your 401k and every personal penny is protected -this of-course only applies provided you have not committed a criminal act or serious personal offense through the discourse of the business.  Another upside (which is dwindling) is that you can deduct some aspects of your personal finances as expenses to the business.  Another downside to an LLC is all the time it takes to make sure you're doing things right...

You need to check your local ordinances and State laws carefully.  Some folks plunder into it but where I live, there is immediate accounting work that cannot be ignored.

Ray


----------



## DaveD

Being a LLC will not stop someone from suing you. All depends on who has the deeper pockets or has the bigger ax to grind. You still have to spend money on legal fees to defend yourself even if you don't lose in the end.

Even if you declare the LLC bankrupt I can, even if it proves wrong in the end, come after you personally just to cause you to spend money to defend yourself. My shyster lawyer just needs to think he is smarter than your shyster lawyer. He who blinks first loses. BTDT.


----------



## Ray C

Yes, pretty much anyone can be sued at any time -for just about anything.  Axe grinding... Nothing new about that.

When people setup LLCs (as sole proprietorships in disguise) and yank all the money and assets out just before or during a litigation, you might as well wear a sign that says "sue me personally -please".


Ray




DaveD said:


> Being a LLC will not stop someone from suing you. All depends on who has the deeper pockets or has the bigger ax to grind. You still have to spend money on legal fees to defend yourself even if you don't lose in the end.
> 
> Even if you declare the LLC bankrupt I can, even if it proves wrong in the end, come after you personally just to cause you to spend money to defend yourself. My shyster lawyer just needs to think he is smarter than your shyster lawyer. He who blinks first loses. BTDT.


----------



## SE18

Quick update:

The braze on my limb shearer snapped so I welded it instead. This time it will hold!

I left my brazing rod outside. It rained and washed the flux off :-(

Next week I'm going to do all my oxyacy welding at the base automotive skills center. Cost is $10 per hour. Very reasonable!

I'll bring a bunch of steel there and practice cutting, making holes, welding etc

Expect me to be a pro soon and show some projects! LOL


----------

