# New model of a small mill coming, some manufacturing pics from the factory to look at.



## qualitymachinetools

New model we have been working on, a high end, smaller mill, built in Taiwan. Its been about 2 years working on this, but its finally getting there, expected to have them ready mid fall this year.     I do not have all of the exact details typed up on it just yet, as I do, we will get it on the web site. Its going to be sized between our PM-25MV (but more travel in the Y and Z) and PM-30MV, Higher spindle speed, (around 4000-4500 RPM), triple bearing balanced spindle with angular contact bearings, super high quality little machine.   Pricing just under $3000 so still affordable but excellent for the people who want to spend a little more for the highest precision available.

Some pictures of the machine being made included below, I think many of you will be interested to see how its done. No one out there has anything that will even come close to what this machine is as far as quality.


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## qualitymachinetools

Pics here showing how they fit everything together. It is all checked very carefully


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## qualitymachinetools

Some pictures here of the spindle and Quill


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## qualitymachinetools

Some assembly pics


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## qualitymachinetools

A pic of the optional stand with leveling feet built in


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## qualitymachinetools

And finally some pics of approximately what it will look like when its ready. Some changes still happening from this machine, but pretty close overall to what it will be.


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## zjtr10

Let me be the first to congratulate you on the new “baby”
Looks nice


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## wrmiller

I've been wondering when you were going to announce that Matt. Well done!

I love the spindle speed range. And a one-shot oiling system. Cool!

I could see one of these in the shop for working on small stuff.


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## davidpbest

Please suggest they use a body filler that actually dries hard and doens't flake off like chalk, and offer an option for upgraded paint/epoxy application.   Every machine I get from China or Taiwan has total crap for paint, and the body filler they use to smooth casting is like chalk and is easily damaged.   Happy to pay extra as an option for something that doesn't require disassembly, stripping and body work to achieve a durable lasting finish.


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## qualitymachinetools

Yes there is not much filler on these, some, but not a lot compared to most. I wish it was possible to do them without any at all, but its just not, there are always some spots somewhere in a casting that would not look right when painted. The paint on these is a better paint than the other smaller models we have, we did go over that.


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## brino

I am not really in the market for a new mill (of course I said that before I bought my Sixis, too!), but I really appreciate the factory tour.

Thanks!

-brino


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## rwm

That looks great. This may be exactly what I am looking for! I assume the spindle is belt drive with no gears? I will be watching the website.
Thanks for sharing, Matt.
Robert


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## wrmiller

The mount for the BLDC motor has a slot on the right side (viewing from the front) so I suspect it probably has a high/low belt drive. Just a SWAG on my part though.


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## StevSmar

Looks very interesting. I’ll look forward to seeing details on your website as they become available.

I enjoyed seeing the construction photos, nice to get an appreciation of how things are made.


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## StevSmar

Interesting to see the hand scraping. I’m still intrigued by how parts are made to align with scraping.


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## Landmark

It looks like a great machine. I really enjoyed seeing how it is coming together. I love the PM30-MV that I got but wish this machine was available at the time I was getting a mill for CNC conversion.


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## Bamban

Nicely done, Matt. 

Now, how about design a PM1236TV with 8 inch bed, enclosed QCGB, cast iron stand, and a short headstock like the PM1236GT/PM1340GT? 

Back to your thread....


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## rwm

Matt- any ballpark idea on the weight of this machine? I am very interested in ordering one.
Robert


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## qualitymachinetools

Right around 350 pounds. Heavier but still manageable.


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## qualitymachinetools

Bamban said:


> Nicely done, Matt.
> 
> Now, how about design a PM1236TV with 8 inch bed, enclosed QCGB, cast iron stand, and a short headstock like the PM1236GT/PM1340GT?
> 
> Back to your thread....



Trying for a smaller lathe, but the price might hold this one up. We just couldn't get it to where it would be reasonable. Not yet anyway.


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## ADK_MechETech

Very nice.  I looked at your machines a while ago, but ended up picking up a lathe instead (big mistake).   Any chance this machine could be supplied "CNC ready"?  I saw you don't have any CNC machines listed on the website anymore and that is my end goal.  It would be awesome if I could get the machine delivered ready to bolt on motors and connect to a controller!


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## justindewoody

Is there an ETA for when the details will go on the website?


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## qualitymachinetools

We do plan to make this easy to convert to CNC, we allowed extra room to put the ball screws in and possibly offer one as CNC ready in the future, but thats still up in the air.

 They should be on the web site in the next 30-40 days, and first shipment completely checked out, ready to go, and on the way in shortly after. We are not too far out on them at all now.


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## charlesbullis

Looks great Matt. Count me in. Belt drive or gear box?


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## qualitymachinetools

This one is a Belt drive


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## charlesbullis

Perfect. There's a corner in my shop ready


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## Kyain

I'm so glad I stopped in here checking on more things. Had my eyes on a pm-30 setup for eventual conversion to CNC, but I'm in no rush and don't mind waiting on this new unit.

I know you said it's between the 25 and the 30, but do you have any actual travel spec's on this one yet? And is the one shot oiler a standard feature on these?


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## StevSmar

Kyain said:


> ... but do you have any actual travel spec's on this one yet? And is the one shot oiler a standard feature on these?


Based on the model number PM-728V-T it appears that:
728- table is 7”x28”
V- variable speed
T- made in Taiwan.

It looks like a one shot Oiler in the photos as far as I can tell.

I’d like to know what mystery accessory the three, blue, louvre-like racing stripes are for on the head. Surely these aren’t purely decorative...(tongue in cheek)


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## shooter123456

StevSmar said:


> Based on the model number PM-728V-T it appears that:
> 728- table is 7”x28”
> V- variable speed
> T- made in Taiwan.
> 
> It looks like a one shot Oiler in the photos as far as I can tell.
> 
> I’d like to know what mystery accessory the three, blue, louvre-like racing stripes are for on the head. Surely these aren’t purely decorative...(tongue in cheek)


It is a well proven fact that racing stripes increase the speed of whatever they are on by a minimum of 30%.  Those help move the head up and down much faster.


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## bakrch

The machine breathes metal swarf and those are its gills.


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## brino

shooter123456 said:


> It is a well proven fact that racing stripes increase the speed of whatever they are on by a minimum of 30%.



They are almost as effective as "speed holes"











-brino


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## arizonavideo

So for a high end small mill do you do ground ball screws?

Nice looking little mill. I would like to see the underside of the base casting.


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## Kyain

I have pipe dreams of eventually make some nice billet parts for my datsun build (maybe even as large as an intake manifold) so hoping this fits the ticket


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## Matt81

Will this be available soon?  I was planning to purchase the 30 in about a week but after seeing this post I want this one!


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## bretthl

Matt,

What is potential for conversion to a small CNC?


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## qualitymachinetools

Details are now available on the web site: https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-728v-t-ultra-precision-mill/

They just left the factory and are on the way in. ETA to us it November 10th.

Many more pictures to come over the next month or so. Including the underside of castings, they are so nice I want to show them off.


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## Firstgear

Wow!  After reading the information on your web page it makes my hand twitch on the order button.  I have a lathe and mill from you already.   It’s good stuff!


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## Matt81

Put in my order on Friday afternoon, looks amazing!  The worm adjuster to tram the head is genius.


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## charlesbullis

Awesome Matt! I'm ready to order. But I don't see 3-axis DRO.


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## Firstgear

Read





charlesbullis said:


> Awesome Matt! I'm ready to order. But I don't see 3-axis DRO.


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## rwm

Gorgeous! I also like the head tram adjustment. The finish looks amazing. I see there is plenty of clearance for a ball nut. I'm sold but I think I'm gonna wait for the DRO. 
Robert


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## Kyain

be calling you tomorrow/tuesday with a few questionados


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## ArmyDoc

How / where does this mill fit in the line-up?  Is it roughly equivalent to a 727V but with tighter tolerances?  It concerns me that it's about #100 lighter than the 727V.   I wish the 833T came with a Brushless DC motor like the 30MV.  Any chance of this happening in the future?


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## COMachinist

Does it have a belt drive? Or gears? It does look like a much better build and quality than the 932 PDF mills.
CH


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## luxige

I’ve been flipping between the PM 833 and this new 728 for a while. Have emailed Matt several times with questions and received useful answers. 
All else aside, I’d rather have the larger machine, for the work envelope and power. Looking at work volume per dollar, the 728 costs about 15% more, and quite a bit more per hp. So the question to me is, do the other advantages of the 728 make up for the price, size and power? Those advantages would be triple angular contact spindle bearings, variable speed, and top rpm. The head tram adjusting screw is a small bonus.
I still haven’t decided if I should give up the power and table size of the 833. I need to realistically evaluate the work I want to do, which I haven’t really figured out yet. Flip flop, flip flop.


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## qualitymachinetools

Sorry its been a while since I have replied, just a ton of things going on here. The machines will be in here any day now. We have been playing with a few of them here in the shop for a while, its really a nice little mill. Something I would be happy to have in my own shop (and we do, some of the guys have been using one)

  Also just updated the PM-833T to a TV Model, that one is now available in variable speed. 

  We are working out the DRO and X Power Feed options for the new 728 now.       Its not a matter of can we install a DRO, but I just need to decide which one we will offer. Standard optic glass scales, or the magnetic. The hard part is the price, the magnetic DRO is definitely higher, so we will see.  Maybe we will just have both for a while.


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## bakrch

qualitymachinetools said:


> Also just updated the PM-833T to a TV Model, that one is now available in variable speed.



Wow. This model is just about perfect for my needs with that upgrade. Ugghhhh, so now I'll be preoccupied with wanting that now.


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## luxige

bakrch said:


> Wow. This model is just about perfect for my needs with that upgrade. Ugghhhh, so now I'll be preoccupied with wanting that now.


Ditto. But I think I have to face facts - even the standard 833 would be straining the budget pretty hard.
I think I’ll pull the trigger on the 728 real soon.


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## rwm

Thanks for keeping us posted. I'm in for the magnetic DRO!
Robert


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## rwm

Hey Matt- I see these are now listed as "in stock" on the website!  If I want one with a DRO what is the approximate lead time? 
Thanks
Robert


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## wrmiller

You'd get a faster response if you emailed or called Precision Machine.


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## AlanB

Any reports or reviews on this new machine? 

Any of the CNC kit vendors planning to have a kit for it?


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## grantj

That looks good, I may want one to leave at work.

Don't let them cheap out on fasteners, sucks having to replace nuts and bolts.


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## AlanB

Any news here? Seems overdue!


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## Firstgear

AlanB said:


> Any news here? Seems overdue!


Not sure what you want.  They are listed on the PM website for sale and are already in the wild....







						NEW! PM-728VT Ultra Precision Milling Machine – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.
					






					www.precisionmatthews.com


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## AlanB

Reviews, comments, etc would be nice to see.


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## AlanB




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## Downunder Bob

Pity we can't get this sort of quality and price here in Australia.


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## AlanB




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## rwm

Cool! Let us know what you think about it!
Robert


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## wrmiller

A 728V-T in the wild! 

Initial impressions of setup and making chips would be great. And lots of pics please. We love machine pics.


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## wrmiller

Downunder Bob said:


> Pity we can't get this sort of quality and price here in Australia.



Are they restricted from import, or just too costly to bring 'down under'?


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## StevSmar

@AlanB 

Congratulations on your new mill! If you have close up photos, I’d love to see them to judge the fit and finish.


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## .LMS.

Dangit - I didn't even know I had to have a milling machine until I read this thread.


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## brino

AlanB said:


> View attachment 308864



That's beautiful!

Now, I  don't need one..........but I want one!!!!

When's christmas?

-brino


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## AlanB

I certainly did not expect to be the first to post pictures. This is Matt's thread so I should not take it over, but I understand the interest in some more photos of this nice new mill. I'm still struggling with getting this onto the workbench, so I haven't done more than run it for a couple of minutes. I have it sitting on a hydraulic lift table so I can get it to the necessary height (with a little help from the pallet) but getting it over to the workbench and getting the drip pan underneath it are challenges yet to go. This is the only closeup I have grabbed so far, but I would say the fit and finish are a definite step up from my old Grizzly G0516. There is a safety microswitch on the belt cover, but there is access to the drawbar without opening the cover via removing the circular cap.

I had it held at the freight terminal and picked it up on my utility trailer which is much easier to maneuver right to the garage door, and much lower than a truck bed to get it out of. The folks at Saia freight were very helpful and we removed the pallet underneath the crate there. The vise was banded to the top of the crate and the crate banded to the pallet. I screwed a 2x4 to the trailer bed in front of the crate to insure it did not move forward under braking and put 5 straps over it to the steel frame of the trailer. Four of the straps were rated 700 pounds working load, the fifth much higher. Shipping weight was 600 pounds total including a vise and a few accessories. It did not move or loosen at all during the 30 mile freeway trip home in heavy traffic (but some folks followed further back than usual). 

The unit was well packed and I haven't found any shipping damage so far.

I did not find a manual in the box, I think they are still writing it.

The drip pan is sheet metal, nicely finished and fairly lightweight. Most everything is covered in oil, seems to be the oil from the oiling system. I pumped it twice and lots more oil came out, clearly that system is working and two pumps are more than needed.

I did loosen the motor and tighten the belt a little, it was pretty loose. The included tools are few but better quality than I've had before.


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## brino




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## Downunder Bob

wrmiller said:


> Are they restricted from import, or just too costly to bring 'down under'?



No not restricted, and even freight from Taiwan is not so high,we are much closer than you are, but we do have high import duties. My lathe came from Taiwan 

The problem is we don't have many importers, probably largely because of our much smaller population. There is no importer dedicated to the hobby market like PM. I got mine from an industrial supplier and it's the smallest machine they can get. they don't carry them in stock it was special order. They do carry some larger models of the same brands.

Some of the big box hardware stores carry the smaller machines, but they are only Chinese junk and poorly presented, they don't usually have anyone on staff that knows anything about them


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## wrmiller

Sorry to hear that SIr.


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## AlanB

Using a Lift Table and a Friend to move the machine onto the Workbench. The HDPE cutting board makes it easy to slide around. The side of the crate's base was cut away to facilitate the job. Sliding it over wasn't too hard, and once on the HDPE I can slide it myself.


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## AlanB

Still need to get the drip pan underneath, but the machine is about where it belongs. Have to figure out a clever way to temporarily lift it to get the pan under, another friend's shop hoist doesn't fit under the workbench. There's only about 6.5 inches underneath. Some hoists have lower wheels, but I may rig something simple with a hydraulic jack.


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## Hobby_5

Just ordered mine...


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## wrmiller

Good looking little mill.


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## erikmannie

I was the friend that helped Alan B. today. As far as I could tell, the mill was flawless in appearance. I have a PM-25MV, and the PM-728VT is clearly a step above my mill. I have zero complaints about my PM-25MV, so you can see how impressed I am with this Taiwanese machine.

I was very happy that Alan appears to have received an undamaged machine.


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## ArCustomRifle

So I'm fairly new to the machining world and I'm in gunsmithing school in Arizona. I have read others posts who would say such a beautiful mill, albeit very well made, is simply to light to keep tolerances and work steel. I will not be doing any barrel fluting and I don't need the long bed of a full size mill, so I wonder if a machine this size and weight would be suitable for such work?


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## AlanB

I'm not in a position to address ArCustomRifle's question, hopefully someone with more experience can answer. This machine is much stiffer than my previous mini-mill, and my understanding is that it will cut steel just fine, but most of my needs are in softer materials and this machine is more than capable of that. Due to the small size it is pretty stiff, and this particular model has about 100 pounds of heft over the usual small mills (370 pounds vs 275 for a pm25).

Today I cobbled together a wood gantry and used a hydraulic jack to lift the mill 40mm and get the pan underneath. The gantry is screwed together with 2 1/2" drywall screws, the load is carried in wood compression and tension is only in the 3/8" all thread. Parts from the clamping kit were used to spread the forces over the wood at the ends of the all thread. The less than two minute lift was totally uneventful after several hours of cutting and screwing. The hardest part was keeping good right angles during assembly while putting the screws in without pilot holes. The temporary gantry is already partially disassembled, it goes back into the scrap lumber pile.


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## erikmannie

Nice work on the gantry. 

You can tell that Alan is an engineer what with thinking about compression and tension. 

It looks like he will be making chips in a matter of days!


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## AlanB

My wife doesn't want me to have a welder. So I have to get by.


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## wrmiller

ArCustomRifle said:


> So I'm fairly new to the machining world and I'm in gunsmithing school in Arizona. I have read others posts who would say such a beautiful mill, albeit very well made, is simply to light to keep tolerances and work steel. I will not be doing any barrel fluting and I don't need the long bed of a full size mill, so I wonder if a machine this size and weight would be suitable for such work?



Not sure how to answer this. I've 'kept tolerances' while building competition 1911s and 2011s on smaller machines than this. I've also seen people screw up on much larger machines. I think it's more about the operator than the machine, but that's just me.

A quality machine will allow a operator to work within his skill limit more easily. A low(er) quality machine makes this much more difficult.

I built my first open class 1911 on a Sherline lathe and mill. This after being told by a 'real machinist' that those toys couldn't do it. But TBH I wouldn't want to have to do it again. 

This machine is much more stout that my PM25, and I milled iron, 4140, stainless, aluminum, and titanium on it. The mill above would have just made the job easier. A lot easier.

A friend of mine is building full-on custom 1911s with all the flat-topping, french borders, and ball cuts on a PM25 sized machine (Griz version) and does an outstanding job. And his order books are full. I also know that he'd love to have a bigger machine to make setups easier, but it's going to be a while before he can do that so he works with what he has.


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## wrmiller

To be honest though, if I was in the market for another small bed mill for pistolsmithing, I'd be looking at the 833T. It's a little bigger, has a slightly larger work envelope and still has the Taiwan quality and accuracy.

But if I could only afford a machine this size, I'd jump all over the 727. But I mostly do pistol work (disclaimer).

But all this is just one person's opinion of course.


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## ArCustomRifle

While the 833T is certainly in my price range, I do not have access to 220V in my current home shop. I'm renting and am limited by what is available to me.


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## AlanB

There's always a bigger machine. One factor in my selection was to maximize the machine while remaining 120V powered. But you can select a three phase machine and get a 120V VFD to drive it, you'll be limited in power of course but still be able to operate. Then later you can upgrade the power if necessary.


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## AlanB




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## ArCustomRifle

I am still considering the 727 variable speed model as it is a bit more Hefty. I'm just wondering how much of a difference in precision I would gain from the careful manufacturing of this machine. I agree with your comment about the operator being more important than the machine, I have seen that first hand in machinist school with all of using the same machines. Now to decide what the most important feature is ... build or weight.


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## rwm

I didn't realize that the 727 was 100 lbs heavier. I guess this falls between the 25 and the 727. I wonder where the weight is? Some of it is in the gearbox on the 727. The x axis on this is a little longer.
Question: I would think a larger chip pan with taller sides would be beneficial?
Robert


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## AlanB

The 727's motor and gearbox are a lot of the additional weight. The frames look similar. A larger chip pan would be good for this workbench. My plan is to enclose and CNC it, but one step at a time.

I started a separate thread for my PM-728V-T mill so I'll stop cluttering this thread.


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## M.T. Pockets

I'm considering getting one of these later this year but need to figure out how to get it into my basement. I have a chain hoist for getting it up on a stand down there but carrying it down the big hill and up onto the deck and then through one of the 34in doorways will be a challenge. If the spindle, table, and column come apart easy enough I'm thinking I can just move it in pieces using a hand truck.


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## rwm

Ordered one! So excited! Oh wait, crap, my credit card is maxed out... I may need to make a payment first!
Tomorrow.
Hey, should I go for a 4" or 6' vice on this? Leaning towards 4.
Robert


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## AlanB

I ordered a 4 inch vise. A 6 foot vise would be impressive though.


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## qualitymachinetools

Looking great in the shop!  Manual is almost done, I am doing the final proof reading this week, but it turned out just how we wanted it. So far people love this mill, myself included.  Finally have the DRO Finalized, and X power feed is coming soon.


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## Aukai

The 6" vice is pretty big, I have a 9x31 mill, and it takes up a lot of space. I bought 2 4" Glacern's, sometimes 1 vice won't hold the work end to end. Here is what they look look side by side, I've been busy on the mill, so it's not cleaned up yet.


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## rwm

Sounds like 4" is the way to go. Do you like the Glacern or should I just go with Kurt?
Robert


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## Aukai

For what I do it is fine, Kurt would be a step up from what everybody says.


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## M.T. Pockets

Can someone comment on how the column bolts to the base? It looks like it bolts from underneath and would be hard to get to if sitting on a stand or palette. I'm debating between this machine or a 833vt and it will mostly come down to which one is easier to move into a basement. The 833vt is of course twice as heavy but the column bolts from the top which might make taking it apart easier.


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## AlanB

Looks like mine bolts from underneath. I'm not tipping it to look underneath to confirm.


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## rwm

The 833 would be nice but my floors can't handle the weight.
Robert


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