# The New South Bend 10K



## rwm

I am seriously considering the new South Bend 10K. It is certainly not a bargain and I feel it should come with more at the current price. Nevertheless, it looks like an excellent small lathe.
I would definitely need to add a DRO. Has anyone recently put a DRO on a similar lathe? What kind of DRO should I be looking at? Magnetic or other? Can anyone give some specifics about attachment points for the encoders?
I will also probably add a brake. This may be self designed or I may swap out the motor for a motor with a brake.
Any thoughts appreciated!



R


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## JPigg55

I don't know anything about the new SB 10 lathe.
As far as a DRO, I'm installing iGAGING scales on my SB 9A (http://www.igagingstore.com/category-s/1831.htm).
Since I've installed them on my mill as well, I'm adding the Yuriy's Toy DRO display (http://www.yuriystoys.com/).
There's a thread on here somewhere that discussed the new SB 10K, but not sure where it's at. Was a lot of interest at the time it came out. Like you, most thought the price was an issue. Haven't seen anything since.
If you get one, I think there would be a lot of interest in pictures and a review of the machine.


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## CluelessNewB

The new SB 10K looks like a nice machine but $5135, no stand, no steady rest, no follower rest, no 4 jaw, no faceplate, no QCTP, no live center, no drill chuck   Ouch!


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## coolidge

CluelessNewB said:


> The new SB 10K looks like a nice machine but $5135, no stand, no steady rest, no follower rest, no 4 jaw, no faceplate, no QCTP, no live center, no drill chuck   Ouch!



Damn the stand is $1,300 ridiculous. 1200 max rpm, only a 1hp motor, D1-3 spindle, jaws not reversible, made in Taiwan...I think the OP can get a lot more for the money.


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## rwm

I agree with all the above. 
R


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## 4GSR

The new South Bend lathes according to Grizzly are made in Taiwan not in China.  The particular manufacturing shop that built these are up to a higher standard of quality than most.  I don't care what all of the guru's out there say about the "cost of quality" it does cost.  And guess who pays for this quality, anyone whom buys a new South Bend Lathe!  

Not to put anyone down here, one notable person most of us know over here in the States. Helped put together a program in one of the factories, if not several, over in Taiwan. To doing a nicer job in fitting up machine tool assemblies for higher accuracy's.  And you think that didn't add cost to the bottom line...


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## Tanshanomi

I got a smaller 8K this past summer, and I have been very pleased with it. I saw it first-hand at Grizzly's Springfield MO showroom before my purchase and even a casual examination made it obvious that it was a step up from most Asian machines...overall, I have been happy and impressed.


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## rwm

Tanshanomi said:


> I got a smaller 8K this past summer, and I have been very pleased with it. I saw it first-hand at Grizzly's Springfield MO showroom before my purchase and even a casual examination made it obvious that it was a step up from most Asian machines...overall, I have been happy and impressed.


Thanks for the response. Glad to hear. Did you happen to look at the 10K?

I don't see a better lathe out there for my needs. Also I like the lower weight. The lathe is 600  lbs and the stand 290. Most lathes are a lot heavier. This is going on a wood floor (don't laugh.)
Can any one show me how they put a DRO on an old 9" or something similar?
R


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## Tanshanomi

rwm said:


> Did you happen to look at the 10K?



It was out of my price range and would take more room than I was willing to sacrifice in my tiny shop, so I only gave it a cursory glance.


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## martik777

I can't believe the spindle bore is only .86" vs 1" on the 8k - What were they thinking????

Given your location, it would be easy to find a 9A with tooling in exc condition for 1/4 the price or even a heavy 10 for a little more.


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## MarkStephen

A few used ones from Craig's list in your area to throw into the mix - 

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/tls/4839318121.html - This one "looks" decent.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/tls/4813325360.html - Might be worth a look?

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/tls/4766909211.html - South Bend 13" ... I'd have to go look at this one if it was for sale local. 

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/tls/4824456398.html - Maybe a bit pricey, but comes with DRO, again - "looks" decent. Might also be worth a look.

Of course, if they were for sale in my area, they would be priced from $4000 - $6500. Everyone around here thinks they are made of gold and are looking to retire on the sale.

Mark


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## rwm

Thanks Mark,
I think most of those are too heavy, especially the 13". That Enco 12 x 36 weighs 1250#.  I thought about finding an old SB 9". I do not really want a threaded spindle. I think the cam lock is a big improvement. I also want to be able to do metric threads. I know I could make a conversion gear for the older lathe if I had to. 
I will keep looking for an old 9" or 10K  and probably buy one if I find a really nice one. Most of the nicer machines are in the northeast. Hopefully this will be my last lathe purchase so I don't mind spending a little more.
R


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## rafe

They are some good looking deals on lathes


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## martik777

Here's a great deal on a  10k: http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/tls/4838671710.html

"42" 10k  I would say my lathe is in near perfect condition and completely tooled. 3 & 4 jaw chuck, live/dead centers, QC tool post, My ford milling attachment & vice, collets w/closer, taper attachment, VFD, micrometer stop, drill chuck, dogs and some other stuff"

For $2100 I'd call that a steal even with the 10 hr drive


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## rwm

martik777 said:


> Here's a great deal on a  10k: http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/tls/4838671710.html
> 
> "42" 10k  I would say my lathe is in near perfect condition and completely tooled. 3 & 4 jaw chuck, live/dead centers, QC tool post, My ford milling attachment & vice, collets w/closer, taper attachment, VFD, micrometer stop, drill chuck, dogs and some other stuff"
> 
> For $2100 I'd call that a steal even with the 10 hr drive



Wow! That looks like a great machine. That would be worth it. I don't know about transportation.
From this:
http://neme-s.org/Shaper Books/South Bend/SB Weights B.pdf
it looks like the 10k weight is less than 750# (not the heavy)
R


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## old_dave

rwm said:


> Thanks Mark,
> I think most of those are too heavy, especially the 13". That Enco 12 x 36 weighs 1250#.  I thought about finding an old SB 9". I do not really want a threaded spindle. I think the cam lock is a big improvement. I also want to be able to do metric threads. I know I could make a conversion gear for the older lathe if I had to.
> I will keep looking for an old 9" or 10K  and probably buy one if I find a really nice one. Most of the nicer machines are in the northeast. Hopefully this will be my last lathe purchase so I don't mind spending a little more.
> R



The South Bend 9" and 10K models were never available with the cam lock spindle nose, only threaded. The D1-4" cam lock spindle nose was standard on the heavy 10 from the mid 1970's on (and available as an option before that).

David


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## rwm

old_dave said:


> The South Bend 9" and 10K models were never available with the cam lock spindle nose, only threaded. The D1-4" cam lock spindle nose was standard on the heavy 10 from the mid 1970's on (and available as an option before that).
> 
> David



Thanks David, I knew that. The new SB 10K has a D1-3 cam lock. 
I contacted the  guy with the old 10K in Detroit. It only has 22" between centers so that may be a deal breaker for me.
R


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## jauringer

Well, I guess this thread is as good an any for a first post. The only reason being all of the research I've done on these new SB lathes from Grizzly. I was looking for a lathe just a step up from the typical Chinese version. It proved to be a pretty tough job as there's not many that fit this description. It's either super cheap or super expensive. I think that's where these new SB's shine. I guess I've owned the 8k for over a year now and been very happy with it. Spinlde bearing issues (can't use grease. Spindle oil only) where reported with the very first version of these lathes but that's seemed to be worked out by the time I came around (32009xp5 ABEC 5 came in mine)  There's a very good reason why these SB lathes are more expensive. It's what better quality costs. Now it's certainly not perfect but it's a far and away better than any other new lathe in it's size range IMO (except probably it's German copy, the Wabeco.) However, the 10k seems to be the first truly quality lathe in the new South Bend selections. The 8k would be an excellent HSM lathe but the 10k has been show to perform great in a work/production type environment.  There's a complete thread reviewing this lathe in a work/production type environment which would be an interesting read for you. The 5" 3 jaw that comes with it has been shown to repeat in the millionths in more than one thread. 

The two biggest drawbacks reported are the low RPM range and spindle bore size(60-1200 rpm, .86" bore w/MT# 3 taper. The 8k excels there w/ a 1.5hp DC (50-2300rpm) & 1.125" spindle bore, it a MT# 4.5 taper though and I don't like that at all. I've heard there's enough meat to take it out to MT#5 but haven't looked into it. 

The bottom line is quality IMO. If you want quality then you're going to have to pay more. If don't mind dealing w/ hand ground gibs, cast iron dust in places it shouldn't be, and working around the errors we typically find in Chinese made lathes, then this might not be the lathe for you. That goes for used lathes as well. I'm in Texas though....so those $500 heavy 10's with no wear don't exist....I'd have to buy the lathe for more and spend another few thousand getting it as accurate as a new 10k would be. If this thread proves anything, it's why all these cheap lathes exist. When a quality one is introduced, no one wants to pay for it.:lmao: 

Now, having said all that, If I was looking for a lathe right now with a budget around the new SB10k, I'd take a hard look at the PM1340gt. Seemingly another well made Taiwanese lathe. 

I notice Grizzly's about to release the South Bend Heavy 10 Gearhead lathe (10X30). 1.358" spindle bore & 55-2500 rpm motor. Looks really nice but takes a couple thousand dollars more to get. 


Anyway, I hope this helps a little. I would have posted links to all my references but I haven't read the forum rules yet. Not sure if that's OK? 

Y'all have a good day.
Jason


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## wrmiller

Interesting that you posted this, as I too have an 8k (almost 2 years now) and the quality, fit and finish and accuracy is WAY above the other asian imports in this size range. I put drip oilers on the spindle bearings and a 5" set-tru three jaw chuck on it and it is quite rigid for it's size (6" bed width and 8" swing = ratio of 80%). You don't get that on a typical 12" lathe.

Anyway, I was looking for a larger lathe to do long-gun work on and considered the 10k but the spindle bore was a killer for me (figured I could take care of the speed limitations with a VFD/motor change) So, I have a PM 1340GT coming this month and after reading all the good reviews about it am looking forward to working with a good quality lathe large enough to do what I want, but in a size/weight I want to deal with. I looked at the new heavy ten but I don't think it will compare to the 1340 feature wise, and certainly not price wise.





jauringer said:


> Well, I guess this thread is as good an any for a first post. The only reason being all of the research I've done on these new SB lathes from Grizzly. I was looking for a lathe just a step up from the typical Chinese version. It proved to be a pretty tough job as there's not many that fit this description. It's either super cheap or super expensive. I think that's where these new SB's shine. I guess I've owned the 8k for over a year now and been very happy with it. Spinlde bearing issues (can't use grease. Spindle oil only) where reported with the very first version of these lathes but that's seemed to be worked out by the time I came around (32009xp5 ABEC 5 came in mine)  There's a very good reason why these SB lathes are more expensive. It's what better quality costs. Now it's certainly not perfect but it's a far and away better than any other new lathe in it's size range IMO (except probably it's German copy, the Wabeco.) However, the 10k seems to be the first truly quality lathe in the new South Bend selections. The 8k would be an excellent HSM lathe but the 10k has been show to perform great in a work/production type environment.  There's a complete thread reviewing this lathe in a work/production type environment which would be an interesting read for you. The 5" 3 jaw that comes with it has been shown to repeat in the millionths in more than one thread.
> 
> The two biggest drawbacks reported are the low RPM range and spindle bore size(60-1200 rpm, .86" bore w/MT# 3 taper. The 8k excels there w/ a 1.5hp DC (50-2300rpm) & 1.125" spindle bore, it a MT# 4.5 taper though and I don't like that at all. I've heard there's enough meat to take it out to MT#5 but haven't looked into it.
> 
> The bottom line is quality IMO. If you want quality then you're going to have to pay more. If don't mind dealing w/ hand ground gibs, cast iron dust in places it shouldn't be, and working around the errors we typically find in Chinese made lathes, then this might not be the lathe for you. That goes for used lathes as well. I'm in Texas though....so those $500 heavy 10's with no wear don't exist....I'd have to buy the lathe for more and spend another few thousand getting it as accurate as a new 10k would be. If this thread proves anything, it's why all these cheap lathes exist. When a quality one is introduced, no one wants to pay for it.:lmao:
> 
> Now, having said all that, If I was looking for a lathe right now with a budget around the new SB10k, I'd take a hard look at the PM1340gt. Seemingly another well made Taiwanese lathe.
> 
> I notice Grizzly's about to release the South Bend Heavy 10 Gearhead lathe (10X30). 1.358" spindle bore & 55-2500 rpm motor. Looks really nice but takes a couple thousand dollars more to get.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I hope this helps a little. I would have posted links to all my references but I haven't read the forum rules yet. Not sure if that's OK?
> 
> Y'all have a good day.
> Jason


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## rwm

Thank you both for your input. Very helpful.
I can't understand why the 8K has such a larger spindle bore than the 10K. I was thinking for long gun work I could use a steady rest and work at the tailstock end.
R


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## coolidge

Yeah but for the kind of money they want for a Taiwan SB you could buy this 5,000lb beast.


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## wrmiller

I think the OP has already said he wants a small/lighter lathe. Not everyone wants or has a place for a 5000lb hunk of iron.


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## wrmiller

rwm said:


> Thank you both for your input. Very helpful.
> I can't understand why the 8K has such a larger spindle bore than the 10K. I was thinking for long gun work I could use a steady rest and work at the tailstock end.
> R



That is the primary reason I went with the 8k originally instead of the 10k even though it has the Norton secondary gearbox. I have done longer pistol barrels (longest so far has been 14") on the 8k but it's bore isn't big enough for heavier barrel long gun work. And using a steady has issues even though I've done it.


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## Splat

I would go with a Precision Matthews or used lathe before I spent what they want for a new SB, especially with that small a bore! That's crazy money for what you get, and I don't care if it's made in Taiwan in a supposed "higher" tiered shop.


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## Ron Bontz

Well, before seeing this, I had posted some questions about the new 1002 10k Griz. Wish I had seen this first. I probably would've bought the PM1127. Anyway, if anyone has a diagram on how to make a taper attachment to fit the newer 10k, I am all eyes. If anyone actually owns a newer 10k I would be interested in hearing about it. Thank you.


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## rwm

There is some good info from an owner on this "other" site. Am I allowed to post this here?

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/new-south-bend-lathes-251259/

Did you buy a new 10K? If so please give us your thoughts.

R


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## Ron Bontz

I just got it in my shop and it arrived with no switch, no centers and no chuck, oddly enough. Not even an owners manual. Supposed to have been a test/demo model. At least it came  with the stand. So now I am waiting for parts. I wired it 110V temp. to test the motor. But the fit and finish of the machine, in general, looks pretty good. Very little back lash on all slides.  I will have to measure the exact amount later. Otherwise Quiet and operates smoothly. It did not come with a splash back, as well.  Easy fix, but would have been nice. The one thing that did throw me a bit was the cross feed direction. For some reason I was thinking forward would cause the cross feed to operate cutting toward the center. But this one operates away from center in forward gear. I really don't remember which way the vintage 10k I had went. Thanks for the link.


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## DoogieB

That manual for the lathe is on Grizzly's website here:

http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/sb1002_m.pdf

So, you actually have one?  How 'bout some pics and a review?  There's practically zero information available on these lathes on the web.

On the original 10k, when you have the leadscrew turning in the normal direction (carriage to the headstock), when you engage the crossfeed it will move towards the operator.


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## george wilson

A particularly aggravating thing about Grizzly is they seem to NEVER provide ANY information about the accuracy of most things they sell. This is especially annoying when it comes to lathe chucks,drill chucks,live centers,etc.. Makes me wonder if they are trying to HIDE this info from the customers.

I guess their customers are just supposed to be too ignorant to think to want info about these things.

I,for one,refuse to buy any such products where tolerances are a consideration. When I buy a chuck,I want to know if the expected runout is .003"(average Asian accuracy),or more(or,hopefully LESS!).

When I have bought lathes with D type spindles,I have sometimes gone over them with a good toolpost grinder,to make them perfect IN SITU,like Hardinge did with their taper nose HLVH's. But,that is not possible with threaded noses. The best you can do is buy chucks with separate back plates,and turn them true and to press fit diameter in the lathe. You could grind the tapered bore. That's about it.


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## rwm

DoogieB said:


> So, you actually have one?  How 'bout some pics and a review?  There's practically zero information available on these lathes on the web.



Plus one!


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## Ron Bontz

rwm said:


> Plus one!


       Well, if I should ever get this thing going, I will post my thoughts with some pics. But so far many things needed to at least get started were missing. Lathe with stand, but no leveling feet. Feet arrived after several days. But no switch. So spent almost $100.00 and ordered the switch and mounting plate. several days later, switch arrives. But missing the cable retainers despite being shown in the diagram. So ordered the retainers from a different place. Now I wait again. Ordered and received a D1-3 back plate and 6" 4 jaw chuck. ( N0thing special, Shars ) arrived in a few days with a 3/8" chuck key. Then realized unable to mount the back plate for sizing to chuck as well. No 5/16" chuck key from Grizzly was included for the D1-3 spindle and no proper steel around to make one.  So now I wait for another chuck key to arrive. So far a lesson in frustration.


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## george wilson

sounds like a real money making proposition for Grizzly. You'll double your cost getting the lathe to where you can do work with it.


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## w9jbc

I have an older 10k I am quite happy with it the only thing I wished I had was a bigger through hole in the spindle


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## Ron Bontz

Yeah. A heavy 10 would have been nice. But the budget said otherwise and I was thinking I was getting a great deal. 
   Well George, I am sure this one will be fine for my purposes. Once I get it up to snuf. I had an older 10K but the ways were pretty rough shape. 1.5" x 8 spindle, etc. I am just not up to par on my knowledge of metal lathes and  wasn't expecting this. I haven't spent hardly anytime on a metal lathe since High School. So a very very long time ago. One of my main priorities was not to buy one with a built in electronics card. Those little circuit boards are rather expensive to replace. One I priced was $500.00, and another was almost $1,000.00. Crazy expensive. Better to put on a VFD with a 3 phase. To busy with saws, these days, to spend a lot of time on other "projects". That's one of the reasons I opted for a newer one. I was actually considering replacing my smaller mill with a larger one from Griz. as well. So we will see. 
       Has anyone tried the "red tacky" NLGI #2 grease for their lathe? I can't think of the brand off hand. But Lucas comes to mind.


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## george wilson

I'm sure the new lathe will be fine. But,I think Grizzly could at least have included some basic things with it. Centers,tailstock wrench,perhaps at least a face plate. Certainly a manual. Not slamming the quality of the lathe itself. Just wonder how much they are riding the name?

I have checked on the prices of some of the accessories,like a steady rest,and they are very high indeed.


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## Ron Bontz

Well, you are correct George. The accessories are indeed high. But I didn't expect to get any accessories with a test model. I had considered the smaller 8K but the electronics card veered me away. ( $500.00 replacement ). Not to mention the additional accessories cost and the fact it is a to be discontinued model. 
   So after spending another couple of hours looking over and dealing with the machine, I found other issues. Unfortunately. 
    Having finally received the newly acquired chuck keys and chucks I bought, I went ahead and put a plug on the end of the power cord they had wired to the Forward/ reverse switch, ( 110 v)  just to get the back plate sized to fit the cheaper Shars 6" chuck. That being done, I noticed the speeds did not match up with the chart. So I looked closer.
     The chart has the Low speeds from the motor and main idler backwards. What should be high speeds is marked low speeds and vice versa. I then looked in the manual and the picture of the main gears is reversed from what the manual shows. Even though it doesn't make any difference in spindle speed. But the chart is still off. I reversed the gears to mimic what was in the manual. The gears seem to fit better the way they were. The belt pulley doesn't line up well, other wise. It jumps over 1/4" or so. Next, assuming the chart was just printed wrong on the plate, I simply attached a piece of tape to allow me to just manually count the rpms on slow speeds and compare to the chart. The lowest speed, 60Rpm was correct. Or close to it. But the next spindle pulley to it which was supposed to be 141 Rpm appears to be way off. So now I need to attach a tachometer to see just how off all the rest are. Not to mention see if Grizzly has the report from the "testing" they did to get more accurate pulley sizes and ratios they came up with. I don't have the money or time at the moment to fit a 3 phase motor and VFD to the machine. 
*Does anyone have a good lead on a reliable and fairly easy to install Tachometer*? 
After reading a fairly favorable review on this 10K ( practical machinist ),  I thought I was getting a reasonably good deal. Now I am thinking it is now starting to look like an expensive royal pain in the backside. Be sure to tune in next week for another episode of ......"As the lathe turns".


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## Ron Bontz

I stand corrected. The setting that is supposed to be 60 RPM is actually 86RPM and the next one over that is supposed to be 92 RPM is actually 250 RpM. Enough said. I am done.


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## george wilson

The only tachometer I have is one of those old antique ones you hold against the end of a shaft and time for a minute. Works fine.

So,am I reading you right-is the speed chart messed up on your new lathe?

P.S.: Are you the Ron Bontz who makes infill planes on another forum?


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## rwm

I am really interested in hearing more about this lathe since I may buy one. Where do you thing the speed is off?
More importantly, how is the fit and finish of the lathe?
R


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## Ron Bontz

rwm said:


> I am really interested in hearing more about this lathe since I may buy one. Where do you thing the speed is off?
> More importantly, how is the fit and finish of the lathe?
> R



Hi George. Yes. Bontz Saw Works. That evil guy that makes shaped saw plates.  Some day I should make you one of my saws with crispy edges just so you know I can.         This lathe was for some future tools I was hoping to make/ design. I thought I was getting basically a plug and play lathe. My error. I did speak with a tech guy at Griz. It seems this was one of the first "test" lathes they received. ( No one ever bothered to mention that one  ) Based on what I have read from others, I am guessing the later version(s) were/are better with the bugs worked out. I was obviously mistaken to assume this was just a test/ demo model you usually find on the floor. When the photo tach arrives ( yet another delay), I will test the motor, and pulley system to get more accurate RPM data. Then go from there. In the mean time I will leave it 110V and run it through a magnetic switch with an emergency stop I can bump with my knee. I believe that is the standard switch on the newer versions. I will try to post some other pics tomorrow.


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## george wilson

THat Mori Seki is a very CHOICE lathe. I wish one would turn up close to me,and in great shape(and NOT painted blue with a brush!)


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## Ron Bontz

Well, so far I have had a chance to use a photo tach on the 10K machine I bought from Grizzly via E Bay. I took a look at the RPMs and compared it to the nifty little chart that clearly was wrong. This is what I have found.  See chart. I would also add the motor seem to get warmer than expected  when it was bogged down on the high gears and the capacitors did not sound "quite right" . The belt tension was adjusted as loose as it would go via. the cam on the inside of the idler shaft. The only way I could get it to turn full speed was to have no tension on the belt and apply tension a little at a time while keeping the motor rpm up. ( not exactly something one would want to do with a poly v belt system ) Needless to say, I suspect a motor / capacitor problem. And this is the kind of garbage Grizzly is dumping on unsuspecting consumers via E Bay? At this point, I could not *Honestly* even sell this machine for what I have tied up in it. If anyone has a constructive thought, feel free to enlighten me. I certainly never expected some thing like this from Shiraz at Grizzly.


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## george wilson

Ron,lease crate up the lathe and send it here. I will keep it out of your sight and mind for the sake of your well being!!


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## Ron Bontz

I should have been more clear on the belt tension. It appeared to be too tight. Obviously at some point it will require a 3 phase with a VFD control. Another expense I had not counted on. At least the vintage SB 10K had fairly accurate numbers. It seems ridiculous to me. You have a motor pulley, an idler pulley and a spindle pulley. Jr. High calculations. And they got almost all of them wrong?????  It is almost enough to make me want to take a 5 hour drive one way. Just to compare and contrast a floor model. So that's it from me for a while. I just don't have the time to play with it for now.  Best wishes.


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## rwm

Here is a thought: If you have a motor problem already,  consider replacing it with a DC motor and speed control. This would be superior to the factory set up in a lot of ways anyway. There are several threads here on DC conversion. I think you can get this beast sorted out with a little effort.
R


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## DoogieB

Hey, I think I found your lathe auction:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SB1002-Sout...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I didn't know they sold tent-sale items on Ebay!

The trouble with this kind of stuff is that it looks cheap at first, but when you need to buy a chuck, magnetic switch, etc then the costs mount up quickly.  Then you get this:

*NO PARTS*

*NO WARRANTY*

*NO RETURNS*

Which makes the initial repairs kind of hurt.  At this point, however, that's water-under-the-bridge.  You can either cry in your Cheerios or just fix it.  Luckily, the spindle is driven solely from stepped pulleys.  You can't get any simpler than that as this lathe doesn't have back gears/cone pulley.  You can make this lathe work correctly.

First you need to make sure you tachometer is working correctly.  Some of the cheap ones don't like a fluorescent lights, so verify your equipment on a known RPM.  Tach verified OK?  Time to move on.

I'll assume your rpm data is correct in the chart you attached.  The motor is shown at 1200 RPM which is correct, but all the other speeds are WAY TO HIGH!  On the highest pulley speed (in low) you are getting 601 RPM.  If you actually got high speed to work without binding the crap out of pulleys, the spindle speed would be 3300 RPM, when it's supposed to top-out at 1200 RPM.  No wonder you're bogging the motor.

The chart isn't wrong, the chart has the speeds that you need and you need to make the lathe work at those speeds.  Luckily, as you said, it's just Jr High calculations.  Since the motor is spinning at the correct speed and everything else is fast, then either the step pulley on the motor is wrong, the pulley that it drives is wrong, or they both are wrong.  Since this lathe was obviously some kind of test mule this isn't surprising.  This would also explain the binding your describe in high: wrong pulley(s).  

You paid extra for a lathe without a new fangled VFD or other electronic controller, so stick with the pulleys and make them work.

If it was me, I would carefully measure the diameter of each pulley step and then contact Grizzly and see if they can tell you which of the pulleys is wrong.  Maybe you can shame them into a replacement.  Having stuff missing is one thing, but totally wrong components is a bit much.


----------



## Ron Bontz

Yes. I have already contacted them. I will of course, fix it. I did measure all of the pulleys, which is where I got my ratios. I was just waiting until I could get some accurate numbers to re contact Grizzly  Tech dept..  I compared the chart to theoretical to actual. Hopefully I will get the diameters of the pulleys on the newer versions from them and go from there. 
I have bought and sold many tools over the years. Never had anything like this happen. So my fault for being a trusting idiot. Time will tell on this one.


----------



## Ron Bontz

Just an update on this contraption. Spoke with a gent named Mike at Grizzly. Turns out this was basically a prototype lathe, more of less. 
Of course no one seem to know any thing about this lathe. None the less when the information I gathered was compared to the production model. Gee guess what? So he is sending me a new set of pulleys and belts to try. Then we will deal with the motor issue. The belts arrived and are indeed a different length than the ones currently on the lathe. Naturally, I will have to do all the work. So at least some one is trying to do the right thing. Maybe if I am really lucky they will send me the 5" chuck that didn't come with it for all this hassle.


----------



## Smithdoor

The main draw back to the New SB 10 is no back gear and small hole
The high price is not good
The  Mori Seki is a great lathe I had one for 30 years but I also 9A for small parts

Dave


----------



## aametalmaster

I was offered that lathe years ago from Pappa Grizzly himself...Bob


----------



## Ron Bontz

aametalmaster said:


> I was offered that lathe years ago from Pappa Grizzly himself...Bob


     So why didn't you take it? You could have saved me a headache and much frustration.  
Papa Grizzly should have just left this one in the tent sale. If I had known what I now know, I would not have paid more than about $2,500.00 for it. I spent at least 8 to ten hours on this the last couple of days. The new pulleys and belts arrived. ( Thank you, Mike ) After some PITA work the new pulleys are on and the speeds now appear correct within 5 to 20 RPMs. The belt tensions were off, of course. But after modifying the tension cam, ( removing about 1/8"  of material ) it now functions as it should. The only real issue at this point is the motor. It just does not have the torque to develop full no load speed in the two high gears. 782 rpm and 1200 rpm. So at least things are now looking up a bit. Looking at the way the motor is mounted, I suspect I would have problems finding a replacement to fit. *Hey Shiraz! How about sending me a new motor. *( One that actually works as it should ) I think if the production models have all the improvements/ corrections they are probably fairly nice lathes.  A side from no back gear. I can not help but wonder why they just didn't make the 10Ks a 10-24 and the heavy 10s a 10-30. Who knows? So it looks like I am going to have to travel to Springfield Mo. to see for myself. *Road trip!*


----------



## Ron Bontz

Well, I must say. My faith has indeed been restored to some extent. I received word today, the tech. folks took a look at the motor issues I was having and decided it was a defective motor. No surprise there. But they are sending me a new one. So a thank you and Kudos to Papa Griz and Mike.  I might actually make a couple of bucks from this  lathe, yet. Projects are a waiting.


----------



## wrmiller

When you finally get this up and running it would be nice to see some pics. 

I came very close to buying that lathe.


----------



## rwm

wrmiller19 said:


> When you finally get this up and running it would be nice to see some pics.
> 
> I came very close to buying that lathe.



Me too... You go first.
R


----------



## Dragon

I been looking  and searching on local AZ (GL, Ebay etc.. )for about a year and I couldn't find any SB9 with decent bed and saddle,
99.9% are worn old machines,  I paid $500 for a very worn  9A that had tail stock missing, motor, countershaft, belt, bad spindle, damage headstock etc...

till this moment I spent $1600 and still need new bed or grinding the current bed, and aligning etc...  and still not running! 

for grinding the bed will be looking for another $1200 and go on with the bank!

I start thinking to sale this junk and buy NEW machine with brand new hardened Bed and all new will be great to own to do precision cut and no wear to worry about!!  I already have my milling attachment and I will use my collets too!

if anybody here saying south bend 9,10,11 etc are good and better I will say yes if you find a decent lathe with excellent Bed like this deal bellow:-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ABSOLUTELY-...946?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43dbac6fca


and please don't tell me about study rest, because not everybody need it!  

Ozy


----------



## Ron Bontz

OK. SO finally I had time, or rather made the time, to switch the motors on this "sample machine". The replacement motor was different and the wiring was  different than any of the diagrams. So I spent some time and more bucks completely rewiring this machine with the new motor. I haven't done anything like that for quite a few years. And Eureka! It's alive! It is now more quiet and smoother running. There will be more testing and checking down the road. But for now I am just thrilled to be able to use it at all speeds.  I took a few snap shots of it. I have not replaced the tool post yet. They are still in the boxes in the drawer. And I was using some China made C6 brazed carbide I had to shim to center. But I started de-nubing some CNCd saw fasteners getting them ready for the mill. Having to step around the replacement motor sitting in the middle of the floor was a good incentive as well. Did I mention my shop is very small?  I still have the lathe sitting on dollies as well. But at least it is level. So some pics. As promised. Some of the saw fasteners, by the way, seem to have a bit of a pin wheel effect. Perhaps some oscillations I was not picking up on. I will look more into that tomorrow.


----------



## wrmiller

Nice. Do you grease the spindle bearings?


----------



## Ron Bontz

Yes. The manual states one or two pumps each day of use. I did shame myself into going back and wire in the safety switches.


----------



## DoogieB

It's good to see you were able to make it to the finish line and getting a working machine.  Looks like you have a decent backlog of work to give your machine a good testing.

Before you declare total victory, however, I think it would be a good idea to to cut some threads via the single point method just to prove-out the gearbox and leadscrew.  Better to find out now while you are still on first-name basis with the tech support people.


----------



## wrmiller

Glad you have it up and running. Feel free to post more pics (maybe threading?) if you feel the urge. 

If pappa griz ever decides to sell those at a decent price (half off?) I might get one to replace my 8k because it's a pain to thread on. Current projects remind me of why I want/use a smaller lathe for some things. That nonsense of making small things on a big lathe is an old wives tale IMO, and I need to make small stuff quite often.


----------



## Ron Bontz

Hopefully I will get a chance to check cutting threads soon. I suspect I will be ok on that one. But in the mean time I have to play catch up for a while. Ironically, my budget called for a used two thousand dollar lathe that would fit in a 48" ( or close ) space. So I blew my budget all to crap. There goes my full size mill money.   So for now I'll have to live with my little G0619 and it's back lash. And I still had to rearrange the shop to squeeze this in. Geez.


----------



## rwm

The 1oK is now on sale at $4,750.
R


----------



## kennyv

thats a "purdy" lathe .

.i almost bought one back in May , i had purchased a smaller 8.5x16  china model  sent it back  ( cross feed broke too )  JMHO not enough girth  either. Was on my way to order a 10X30 and some of the fellas on the forum told me to check a machine tool  place in my state...  i hap to find  a SB 10 heavy tool room lathe  with all the fixingss under $2500  .. ya know what it may be old but it weights 2xs as much as any china lathe that size  approx 1000-1200 lbs  and to  top it off  gear box goes from 4-440 TPI  . no changing gears ...

  Hey Good luck with that lathe looks like a nice addition to the shop .. no worries you will get the bigger mill when time is right


----------



## Scruffy

Just curious. I've never been a machinist or had any type of formal training.  What is the big draw to south bend heavy 10.  Or south ends in general..  For the prices people want their seems to be better buys around than them.
I posted a south end for a friend for sale and I think it is bigger and heavier tan a  heavy 10.   How heavy is a heavy 10?
Thanks ron


----------



## wrmiller

The heavy 10 seems to be a good all-around lathe, but still in a manageable size for those who are space constrained?


----------



## Dan_S

wrmiller19 said:


> The heavy 10 seems to be a good all-around lathe, but still in a manageable size for those who are space constrained?



IMO, it's still way to expensive for what you get. You could probably buy an older one, and have the entire machine reground for less than the cost of buying a new one. Not to mention as soon as you step up to the 12 or 13" range you can buy quality stuff made in Taiwan that's roughly the same price, and a lot more capable. Not to mention if you look at the spec shees the heavy 10 takes up more space than the 12x36 gunsmith lathe, though the 12x36 is almost twice as heavy. 

I played with a heavy 10 last December in the Muncy store, and I wasn't overly impressed, because the features/accessories it came with, just wan't up to snuff when you considered the price.  My recommendation to the op, would be to think long and hard about what you are paying for, and not to get swept up in the "high quality" nostalgia Grizzly is trying to sell. getting this machine fully fitted out with a stand, and chucks etc could easily set you back $10k, and it's still a light weight machine.


----------



## kennyv

Jmho needs and wants are 2 dif things . always better to invest in better tooling  machines and equipped . esp if they will serve you .  so with that said  if ya need can afford new and know what you want. than   getting better for the  investment the  commitment, its going to make you money   than go for it !   I even do research even on low value item .  before you buy anything with a high price tag go next step further and test drive it too.

all personal preference to what ya need want and can afford.  yes space too... same in my case. I wanted a functional lathe . anyways IMO in my case used was a better  investment. Bang for buck  and I got my cake and eat too.
I was blessed and very fortunate to have a lathe in this condition avail at the right time ...  What I would of spent on NEW china lathe  I was able to get used with more tooling ... to top it off  much better quality all around . Quick change gear box  , collets Face plate 4 jaw, 3 jaw chucks   steady rest .. all Old -seasoned well cared for American made  vintage good stuff .  Price tag under  $2400. that's exactly what I wanted and  my Budget allotted for . When this lathe came up I  did 72 hours of research , killed the entire day - test drove, fiddled w/machine,  for well over 3 hours .

If ya wait research things eventually  they will come along .   My best friend ( carpenter)  called this an anchor weight .. I called it my diamond in the rough . depends  on the beholder tho  .....what I always wanted


----------



## Dragon

kennyv said:


> Jmho needs and wants are 2 dif things . always better to invest in better tooling  machines and equipped . esp if they will serve you .  so with that said  if ya need can afford new and know what you want. than   getting better for the  investment the  commitment, its going to make you money   than go for it !   I even do research even on low value item .  before you buy anything with a high price tag go next step further and test drive it too.
> 
> all personal preference to what ya need want and can afford.  yes space too... same in my case. I wanted a functional lathe . anyways IMO in my case used was a better  investment. Bang for buck  and I got my cake and eat too.
> I was blessed and very fortunate to have a lathe in this condition avail at the right time ...  What I would of spent on NEW china lathe  I was able to get used with more tooling ... to top it off  much better quality all around . Quick change gear box  , collets Face plate 4 jaw, 3 jaw chucks   steady rest .. all Old -seasoned well cared for American made  vintage good stuff .  Price tag under  $2400. that's exactly what I wanted and  my Budget allotted for . When this lathe came up I  did 72 hours of research , killed the entire day - test drove, fiddled w/machine,  for well over 3 hours .
> 
> If ya wait research things eventually  they will come along .   My best friend ( carpenter)  called this an anchor weight .. I called it my diamond in the rough . depends  on the beholder tho  .....what I always wanted





I just bought g4003 I did 3 months online search about what is the best for $$ and I found this;
The old American machine it's great if you buy it almost brand new, but in fact there is none in mint condition, and if you buy SB lathe for let say $2,400 you still need to restore it! It's a lot of work could take you up to a year to finish it if you located in areas like AZ then you are a lone in the desert!!!
Also buying old machine meaning buying somebody else problem...:::
Now come back to g4003; I got it with 10% discount so total include shipping and lift gate $2800
The machine itself have less than  .0003
Spindle runout, hardened bed, comes with all 4 jaw chuck and qctp, steady rest, fallow rest, face plate, so you pretty much ready to go right out of the box,
The size is great 1.5 spindle bore 5c collet closer, 12 swing and can go up to 17" swing
Heavier than south bend which is 997 LB
CNC this machine will be a great upgrade!
Also grizzly gives 1 year full warranty
So I believe I did a good choice over the old worn machine for almost same price just almost!!!
Good luck
Oz


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## Dragon

sorry for the repeating


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## wrmiller

I was thinking of a older heavy 10 when I wrote that. Not the new one.


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## kennyv

wrmiller19 said:


> I was thinking of a older heavy 10 when I wrote that. Not the new one.


Me too!  couldn't find the "ditto"


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## rwm

I couldn't resist the discount...I bought one. Fedex has it in the CLT. Now...how to get it in the house? I need to reinforce the floor first.
I made a dolly to move it.




The stand is 350 lbs and the lathe is 600.




Robert


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## DoogieB

Be very careful with that dolly.

This lathe, as far as lathes go, isn't very top heavy.  Nevertheless, if the wood breaks or a wheel snaps off on your dolly you could be in for a bad day.


----------



## rwm

each caster is rated at 300lbs. The wood frame is glued and screwed and seems pretty tough. The rehearsal dinner will be bringing in the stand. If that goes OK I will forklift the lathe onto this dolly. I am putting two floor  jacks under the joist that this will rest on.
R


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## rwm

I moved the lathe stand into the house today. It was a success with no problems. Wish me luck with the lathe itself! It comes Monday.










R


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## kennyv

New things are nice .. ahh!!! can already  the smell of fresh painted  equpt in the room. Very Nice can't wait to see the st up and unavailing Good luck  with the SB lathe


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## rwm

Lathe is in it's new home! I had to run a new 20 A  circuit for it. Spindle break in is this weekend.







I seem to be having some issues with my pics from Google Photos. Let me know if you can't see these.
Robert


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## wrmiller

Can see it fine. Beautiful lathe.


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## aametalmaster

Nice and clean...Bob


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## Benny

Very nice Bob.Happy machining!


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## rwm

Almost a shame to get it dirty but it shall be soon! I did scratch it when I lifted it with the forklift. It rocked into the mast so it is already christened! 
So far I am very pleased with the quality. The weight is about the max I could do in my shop. Worth the extra cash IMHO. I hope this is the last lathe I buy. I am constructing a chip guard for the rear and I need to make back plates to adapt my chucks. I wish D1-3 was more common.
Robert


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## wrmiller

Grizzly carries D1-3 back plates. Or do you have to make something special?

Even though I have a slightly larger lathe (PM1340GT) already, if I had the disposable funds I'd pop for one of those to have as a second/backup lathe. Love that little lathe. I am interested in hearing your impressions once you start getting her dirty.


----------



## rwm

I have one D1-3 back plate from Grizzly. I will probably mount my Bison 6" on that. Drilling the mounting holes will be interesting without a real mill! 
R


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## kennyv

Purdy lathe was going to get one bought a smaller china model sent back long story  ended up with a used  1963 SB Heavy 10 and happy at the find . She was a  diamond in rough  fully loaded . the tooling alone was worth the price of lathe .  Good luck w/her she's sure a nice lookin machine .


----------



## rwm

Since I have started this thread I figure I will keep posting here with the setup and any issues with this lathe so that others may refer to it.
The lathe is installed, and leveled. The runout of the chuck is less than 1 thou. I checked the headstock alignment and it is off  about 1 thou over 12". Those values seem acceptable to me.

So here is a problem:



As you can see, when facing, the tool height is not correct and it leaves a nub of 1.8 mm in the center of the work. Obviously a QCTP would correct this, however, I want this to be right. The previous 3 lathes I have owned were all pretty much spot on in height using standard tooling. Is this degree of error acceptable or should I contact Grizzly/SB for a solution?
Here is the tool post setup:



The error could be that the tool post is too short. It could also be in the cross slide, saddle or even the headstock.
I could shim the tool, but should I really do that or insist this be corrected? Any thoughts, please.
R


----------



## Techie1961

That is new to me that a tool will be centered automatically on a spindle center. I have always had to center the tool on my own and consider this to be just the way it is. I have to use different shims on each cutting tool that I have. A QCTP would be great but it isn't in the budget cards right now. If you think about it, if tools were naturally centered, why is there an adjustment on the QCTP verticals.


----------



## Techie1961

One thing that I don't like about the lathe is the fan on the motor is right there where chips and cutting fluid will fall. Not a good idea and I would build a shroud on of some sort.


----------



## wrmiller

My experience with my little SB was similar in that no adjustment to the machine was required. The only machine I've owned that I can say that about. But my experience with 4-way tool posts differs from yours in that I have always had to shim cutters to get them to centerline. Even on my little SB. But I quickly changed it out for a AXA sized QCTP so I no longer cared at that point. 

I too noticed that motor and told myself that if I was ever able to get one of these I would have to build a shroud or cover to keep the chips out.


----------



## Dan_S

I'm with the others, shimming is usually required on a 4 way tool post.


----------



## rwm

Phase II tool post installed and works great. No more tool height problem.
So I have about an hour of run time on the lathe after breakin. Now the motor is bad! Sometimes it just sits and hums, sometimes it starts slowly, sometimes it starts fine. Nothing is jammed or binding. I suspect a bad start cap or a bad centrifugal switch. I will need to call Grizzly. Any thoughts on the cause?
Here is the video:

https://goo.gl/photos/TSMgZKaY3fToTLZ16

Very disappointing on a new expensive machine.
R


----------



## Dan_S

almost seems like it's not getting enough volts, or the  start cap is bad.


----------



## GK1918

Every once in a while mine sounds just like that.  I know its the centrifugal switch, cause time to time
I spray it with tuner cleaner.   On shut down you should clearly hear it snap.  Sometimes on shut down
mine  snaps after about 10 seconds & if I turn it on it just hums.   So I would spray with some contact
cleaner or something..........


----------



## Techie1961

Definitely the starting portion of the motor and not something jamming. Like you have guessed, probably the starting switch or the capacitor but it also could be a loose wire. Usually the capacitor just goes so you won't have it intermittently.

Oh, and not really South Bend's fault other than they selected the motor manufacturer.


----------



## rwm

Today it won't start at all unless I spin it by hand. I think I hear the centrifugal switch closing normally. I guess I will change the capacitor and see what I get? I am not familiar with the workings of the centrifugal switch. Could the switch contacts be contaminated with oil or grease? Is there a way to tell these two issues apart based on the behavior? I think they would seem exactly the same. Should I start with the capacitor or the switch?
R

Edit: P.S. I cleaned up all the bad pic links in this thread for future reference. When you move a pic on Google into a new folder the link changes. Sorry.
R


----------



## rwm

Update:
Bad start capacitor. Grizzly shipping a new one tomorrow.
R


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## rwm

Ready to go with the chip guard on and a new machine light (Martini shaker). New start capacitor and it runs fine!



First project is to turn a new handle for the Phase II tool post. I am going to do a tapered shaft like the Aloris but out of 304 SS with an SS ball handle 1-1/4"

R


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## martik777

The 10k is now on sale for $3770, maybe the OP can get price protection?


----------



## rwm

I can't tell you how annoying that is...
R


----------



## martik777

Did you try contacting Grizzly about price protection?


----------



## rwm

Yes...No.
That's OK. It's only the cost of the DRO plus the DC motor conversion I need....
R


----------



## MDSpencer

I hate to keep slamming this machine , but it really looks nothing  like a Southbend. This is a Logan lathe.


----------



## old_dave

MDSpencer said:


> View attachment 124117
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to keep slamming this machine , but it really looks nothing  like a Southbend. This is a Logun lathe.



First of all it's spelled Logan.

Second of all if you looked at the details of the machine currently sold as the 10K you would have noticed that the apron details look much more like the old 10K than this Logan. Plus this latest iteration has a cam lock spindle nose which the Logan you show does not. In any case your point is?

David


----------



## wrmiller

He's a SB snob? Where are the moderators when you need one?


----------



## MDSpencer

It's all in the look. If your gonna say that it something, it should be


----------



## MDSpencer




----------



## MDSpencer




----------



## MDSpencer

This machine is fore sale @ Bridgeman machine, Detroit, MI.


----------



## rwm

Just for continuity of this thread:















R


----------



## rwm

First, Are the images in the post above visible to other users? They are no longer visible to me. Google seems to be changing the links?

Second, what is up with this:
Please note- "Don't switch to A,B, and C position when spindle speed is higher than 320 RPM. The problem with that is that the power cross feed is incredibly slow if you don't switch to at least C. Is this an issue on older SBs? Comments?
R


----------



## martik777

Yes, cross feed is too slow on D and E on my 9A and it is backwards IMO. It feeds inside to outside when long feed is in normal (right to left) setting. I wouldn't be changing gears when the spindle is turning, while it is possible (like shifting without a clutch) you do risk damaging the QCGB.


----------



## rwm

Mine feeds the same way. The cross feed works well in the C position but then I can't run the spindle fast enough. Is there any work around? Is it really dangerous to run it in C at 500-700 RPM?
R


----------



## wrmiller

FYI, I can't see the images in post #108.


----------



## Steve Shannon

wrmiller said:


> FYI, I can't see the images in post #108.


I can't either. Nor can I see the ones in 109. 


 Steve Shannon, USA


----------



## rwm

I think I have fixed the images.  Let me know if not.
Robert


----------



## martik777

You can run the spindle at any speed in any gear position. Of course, there will be more gear wear at higher RPM, just be sure everything is well oiled.  Mine is well used, 70+ years old and the gears are still fine.


----------



## martik777

How did you attach the hand wheel to the spindle?


----------



## rwm

martik777 said:


> How did you attach the hand wheel to the spindle?


I made an expanding mandrel. It's a piece of tubing with a slit about 2" long. There is a tapered brass plug that spreads the end. It grips very tightly and I use it a lot for tapping. Quick and easy to take on and off.



Rolled the ring on my cheap Harbor Freight ring roller. Its 1/2" SS


R


----------



## Steve Shannon

I still can't see 108/109 images, but 117's show up great. Nice job on that ring!


 Steve Shannon, USA


----------



## rwm

Something is wrong with this particular website. If I can't see an image I get a small red X. If I then edit the post but copy the exact same image location, I can now see the image. Weird. Not sure how to fix that one.
R


----------



## wrmiller

I see everything now. Love what you're doing with the lathe.


----------



## 4GSR

rwm said:


> Something is wrong with this particular website. If I can't see an image I get a small red X. If I then edit the post but copy the exact same image location, I can now see the image. Weird. Not sure how to fix that one.
> R



Website is fine. somewhere in the internet, the lines or a repeater was down.  My internet was down most of the weekend.  Just came back up in the past 30 minutes.  I figured they cut my internet off because of my very high usage... And I pay dearly for internet service in my area!


----------



## wrmiller

Interesting, because when at work (very security conscious place I might add...  ), and attempting to view threads here with pics in them either I get some 'img' (image?) comment, or a red 'x' but no pics. I get none of that from home or on the iPhone.


----------



## Steve Shannon

Test of copied content from 109

Still cannot see it. I assume it's due to permissions on the googleuseraccount drive where the content is stored.


 Steve Shannon, USA


----------



## wrmiller

If that were the case, no one could see it. I see the pic in your post just fine Steve. The problem could be on your end, but I have no suggestions as to what that could be, sorry.


----------



## Steve Shannon

wrmiller said:


> If that were the case, no one could see it. I see the pic in your post just fine Steve. The problem could be on your end, but I have no suggestions as to what that could be, sorry.


Yeah, me too. What's confusing is that I see 117 just fine, but not 108 or 109. I'm using Tapatalk on an iPhone. When I get home I'll see if I have better luck with other devices. 
Thanks!


 Steve Shannon, USA


----------



## rwm

I am thinking about converting to a DC motor and speed control. The choices are permanent magnet or shunt wound like this.



I was concerned that a permanent magnet motor may attract and hold chips all the time? Has anyone had experience with this? 
R


----------



## RonWB1957

Nice mods to that lathe. When I get over my frustration with Grizzly, perhaps I will try a couple of those. What size rotating table is that? I did confirm the SB 1002 is going to be discontinued after the remaining stock is sold. Nice to know they are selling the new machines for  less than what I have tied up in the "test machine" I spent so much time and frustration getting up to par. ( within reason ) And to think I bought two other machines from Grizzly after that. I hope every one else has better luck with Grizzly than I have.


----------



## rwm

Ron- Thanks for chiming in again! I understand your frustration. Obviously I should have waited a few months before I bought mine.
That rotary table is a small 4" from Sherline that I had with my toy mill. Its height limits my ball turning to 1.5". I am eventually going to do a DC motor mod and put a DRO on the machine. Trying to figure out if a permanent magnet motor or a wound field is better.
Robert


----------



## RonWB1957

I am clueless on the best type of motor to put on these. Seems there is a mix out there. I suppose which ever would give the most consistent torque through out the speed range. My Powermatic 3520B wood lathe uses a 2hp three phase with a VFD. 2 pulley ranges and does well. If that's worth anything. Otherwise I plan on mounting a curved shroud over my lathe motor and just use earth magnets or switch magnet to hold it in place. ( removable )Thanks for the insight.


----------



## rwm

I am so sick about Google Photos changing all my links! That's why many of my pics are absent. Sorry if this has annoyed you too. I am now re-posting from Flikr which hopefully will work better. Can't wait to see how the autonomous cars work out!
Robert


----------



## rwm

I am reviving this thread to get some advice on a DC motor conversion.
I am considering going with a higher RPM DC motor to get greater spindle speeds. The factory motor is a 1HP 1725 RPM AC motor. The first question is how much DC HP do I need? Should I go with 1HP or can I get away with 3/4 HP? It is my understanding that the DC motors have greater starting torque?
I found a nice Baldor DC 1 HP 2500 RPM motor that would probably work. There are a lot of choices if I go down to 3/4 HP. (I am not talking about treadmill motors.)
Robert


----------



## John Hasler

A real 3/4HP DC motor with a good controller will work fine but grab the 1HP Baldor if you can get it at a good price.


----------



## rwm

What kind of controller would you recommend? I was looking at the KBPC 240. One thing I would really like to have is dynamic braking to stop the machine quickly for safety. 



Robert


----------



## John Hasler

I can't read most of the data on the motor but it looks like a good one.  It's totally enclosed which is good.  I'm not familiar with that controller but the specs look good.  For best performance you'll want to add a tachometer generator so that you have closed-loop control.


----------



## rwm

Th


John Hasler said:


> I can't read most of the data on the motor but it looks like a good one.  It's totally enclosed which is good.  I'm not familiar with that controller but the specs look good.  For best performance you'll want to add a tachometer generator so that you have closed-loop control.



Thanks for your input John. The tach sounds like it will really complicate this. I would love to have a digital speed control where I can just dial in an RPM and the controller will keep it there. Anybody have a controller in mind? I'm not sure how to hook up a tach with that KB controller and it is analog.
The seller won't move on the price of that motor so I will keep looking. I feel like the 1HP 2500 RPM will be perfect.

R


----------



## rwm

Well here we go on an adventure! I hope ya'll will advise me as needed with this one.
I just bought this:







It's a TEFC 180V DC PM Baldor. The plan is DC conversion of my already overpriced South Bend! 

I really want to have dynamic braking so my plan so far is to use this KB controller. It has "regenerative braking." I am thinking about keeping the existing forward-off-reverse switch and the existing emergency stop to trigger the dynamic braking (as well as the off position).  I will also have a line voltage cutoff before the controller but I assume that would be a" coast to stop" if tripped. Any thoughts on this? The new motor is a 2500 rpm motor so the added speed will be nice.




The lathe is currently plugged into a 120v source so first I will need to rewire the shop for 240v where the lathe is. I will start on that and start to accumulate the remaining items for the conversion.
One obvious issue it the current motor is a 90L frame mount and the new one is a 56C. 
I will keep you all posted on progress.

Robert


----------



## Silverbullet

george wilson said:


> sounds like a real money making proposition for Grizzly. You'll double your cost getting the lathe to where you can do work with it.


Grizzly has to make money somewhere , its all the nuts and bolts that are missing .


----------



## rwm

Problem #1.
Old motor has a 19 mm shaft with a keyway. New motor has a .625 shaft. 
Do I sleeve the pulley and re-bore it? Should I first machine out the ID to remove the existing keyway? (I think yes, if there is enough material) How about a flanged bushing that attaches with three screws?
Should I just make a new pulley ( not a simple task. It's a 3 groove poly V with 2 diameters)



Please chime in!
Robert


----------



## Silverbullet

Ding dong ding ding, if It were mine and I had the material , YUPP make a new one. You can have the other motor as a just in case YA Need  it. Things happen and its best to be prepared. Like you said easy to make . Yours will be better I bet.


----------



## rwm

I am thinking about machining a new motor pulley from scratch rather than trying to modify the existing.
Unfortunately the motor pulley is metric and I am not sure how to go about this task. It is not like the standard J section pulleys. It is made by a company called Bando. The most detailed drawing I can find is here:



I have no idea what the angles are. They appear to be close to 60 deg. Has any one cut one like this?

Edit:  OK I found this hidden away on the internet




Apparently the pulley angle if pretty close to 60 deg. I guess I can use a thread cutting tool and make sure the groves are 5.3mm apart. Not sure yet how to gauge the width of the groove. I am thinking plunging the tool to a specific calculated depth?
R


----------



## Silverbullet

You should be able to match the pulley , grind your bit and fit it to the pulley you have the spacing set by the width of the pulley. It's not a job you have to get too super tight tolerances. Even your diameters can be changed if you want slower and faster speeds. I wouldn't make the job harder then it is , the only thing I'd suggest is if your chuck has more then a few thou run out I'd use an arbor and centers to keep run out down. Helps keep vibration down on the drive . Your pulleys can be made separate also then use one key and 2 set screws or 2  on each pulley . Just what I'd do but think it out you can do it.


----------



## rwm

Silverbullet - Thanks for the advice. You and I may be the only ones watching but here ya' go:




Resting on the stock that will be the larger pulley:















I machined the OD of the large pulley after it was attached to the smaller one so it is perfectly concentric. The set screw intersects the keyway and is hidden under the large pulley.

R


----------



## Silverbullet

What a great job , I knew you could do it and more then likely better then the one on the machine. Now it's wait for all the other items needed to mount it and wire it up. I'd love to be able to set up my mill with a dc drive motor. But unless I get a give away it ain't happen in. Good luck with your lathe keep the pics coming there really good also.


----------



## rwm

Drew up the motor mount plate last night:




Alibre CAD. I like it for 2 D stuff.

R


----------



## rwm

I am thinking forward to the electronics and motor controller. I was planning on having the gear cover safety switch activate the STOP feature by opening the enable circuit on the controller. The KB manual says  this:

Enable Start/Stop Circuits – The KBMG-212D contains a 2-wire stop circuit
(Enable), which is used to electronically bring the motor to a “stop.” An isolated
single contact closure is required. If an isolated contact is not available, it may be
necessary to use an isolation relay.
What exactly do they mean by "isolated"? I have a stand alone switch that can break this circuit. Is that isolated? What would be non-isolated?  I'm feeling isolated!
Please advise.
Robert


----------



## extropic

"Isolated" refers to a device keeping different power sources (AC/DC, different voltages) isolated from each other. In other words, use your proposed interlock switch to ONLY make/break the "stop" circuit.

I think, in your application, simply making/breaking (I don't know which, see your schematic) contact between the two wires will trip the "stop" function so an interlock switch should work fine.

Here's a link to some info regarding "isolated":  http://ecmweb.com/basics/basics-control-relays


----------



## rwm

Ex- Thank you. I thought so but it's nice to have confirmation.
I am proceeding well. I have an 8 x 8 x 4 box for the motor controller and the Stop switch. I will mock up the wiring soon and test the controller.
CAD file for motor mount is at my brothers for plasma cutting.
R


----------



## rwm

I got my electrical box today:




It's pretty solid with 16 g steel walls. I need to cut some holes. Round holes are no problem (hole saw.) How do ya'll recommend I cut a 1.5 x 3" rectangular hole for the switch without messing up the box? Angle grinder will work but hard to control. I could drill the corners and use a sawsall? I do not have a mill large enough or a way to clamp it. Any other bright ideas?
Robert

EDIT:

Here's a good quick video. Better idea than an angle grinder.





Robert


----------



## rwm

Did a little work on the box:



Used a Dremel with a cutoff disc, then cleaned up with a file. Works very well. 




I believe the vents will be adequate. Where this will be located it is unlikely chips will get into that top vent.


----------



## rwm

In the KB manual is says NOT to ground the shield of the control wire. Why is that? I thought shielding worked better if they were grounded?
Robert


----------



## rwm

No takers on the ground question????

I have everything wired up and tested!






This control seems really great. When I switch from FORWARD or REVERSE to STOP, the control brakes the motor to a stop in about 1 sec. If I open the enable switch it stops much more quickly, like in 0.2 sec. This will be great for the ESTOP. The large switch you see mounted in this box will be the main disconnect. 
More will be forthcoming!
R


----------



## John Hasler

rwm said:


> In the KB manual is says NOT to ground the shield of the control wire. Why is that? I thought shielding worked better if they were grounded?
> Robert


To avoid ground loops shields should be grounded at one end at most.


----------



## rwm

Thanks John! I will read more about that. 
Robert

After reading about this issue I will only be grounding one end of the shield to prevent a ground loop. I suppose I will ground the end at the controller.
Robert


----------



## uncle harry

rwm said:


> Thanks John! I will read more about that.
> Robert
> 
> After reading about this issue I will only be grounding one end of the shield to prevent a ground loop. I suppose I will ground the end at the controller.
> Robert



It is recommended to star ground all grounds including shields.  It is correct to ground only one end of a shield.  I prefer to use din rail and din rail connectors.  Sometimes it is difficult to connect shielded multi-conductor cables to a star ground because of their location on a terminal strip. In that case I add grounding terminals as close to a star ground as possible. Din rail ground terminals are essentially chassis grounds and have very low resistivity so  inducted eddy currents and ground loops are minimized.


----------



## John Hasler

rwm said:


> Thanks John! I will read more about that.
> Robert
> 
> After reading about this issue I will only be grounding one end of the shield to prevent a ground loop. I suppose I will ground the end at the controller.
> Robert


Connect the shield to the COM terminal of the controller and nowhere else.  Ground the case of the controller.   COM will be connected to the case internally if that's appropriate.


----------



## mksj

There are different debates on shield grounding, and sometimes it is more empiric based, and if you are having problems. Convention is usually to star ground at the source/controller and float (not connect) the other end of the shield. On VFD installs I have seen arguments to ground at the source and alternatively at both ends, I use the latter. On the other hand, I had a situation where a tachometer display went crazy when I grounded the shield at one end, and it would only work if the shield was left floating at both ends. I believe the shield grounding picked up the VFD noise on the machine and induced it back into the sender wires. I would follow the manufactures guidance, and if you have noise problems, then reevaluate the shield grounding.


----------



## rwm

Manufacturer says not to ground the shield at all. Also says not to ground any of the terminals. It does not mention tying the shield to COM although that makes sense. I have created a star ground in the box. I think I will start by grounding one end of the shield there and cut it loose if I have problems. I'm hoping this control is not very sensitive to noise. It's not a device I want malfunctioning! ...Like the lathe coming on when I 'm not expecting it!
I really appreciate all the replies as they are very educational all the way around.
Robert


----------



## John Hasler

rwm said:


> Manufacturer says not to ground the shield at all.


Then don't.


----------



## rwm

Like many of us here, I'm not big on following directions unless I agree with them! 
R


----------



## John Hasler

rwm said:


> Like many of us here, I'm not big on following directions unless I agree with them!
> R


In this case it is best to follow them.  In many controllers the COM is connected to the power line neutral.  In some it is even connected to the negative side of a full-wave bridge connected across the line.


----------



## uncle harry

rwm said:


> Like many of us here, I'm not big on following directions unless I agree with them!
> R



You have reminded me of my ex-spousal unit.


----------



## rwm

10-4. No ground it is.
Robert


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## rwm

So I sent a CAD file to my brother at Miller Motorsports. He has a CNC plasma that he uses to build off road race vehicles.

http://www.millerrockracing.com/

Here is my new motor mount!









I hope it fits! Looks about right.

Robert


----------



## rwm

I got my motor mount!




I have decided to use the one without holes and drill more precise ones. I do not have the capacity to do this on a mill with a rotary table so I will sue my trusty 56C template/drill guide:




The template was cut from the bottom of a pump housing. It worked great!

Need to add one of these:




R


----------



## rwm

It was kind of a ***** to drill countersinks this large but I finally got them done. The mounting holes line up perfectly! Painted with epoxy and ready to install.



I was using a 6 flute countersink and I don't think I had enough HP to drive it on my drill press. What is the best countersink for large work? Single flute, multiple flute, or zero flute? I also had a lot of chatter with the "chatterless" 6 flute. Interestingly, none with the single.

Unfortunately the actual conversion will have to wait until after TG. Check back then!

Robert


----------



## rwm

Well the conversion is done:




Looks tiny without a motor attached.













New control setup:




So it looks great. Runs forward and reverse with great speed control and rapid dynamic braking. I can shift on the fly from forward to reverse.
But there is one annoying problem! The major problem is noise. I was assuming this would be a smooth quiet drive. This is loud as crap and way louder than the factory motor. I am not exactly sure why. Most of the noise occurs during stopping and starting and is a loud hum that gets transmitted and seems to induce secondary  vibration. On stopping this is definitely related to the "regenerative drive" powered stop. It is much quieter on coast to stop. Is this a function of the 180v motor? Would 90v be quieter for the same HP?

Robert


----------



## rwm

Here is a video of the first run:






It is hard to tell about the noise level from the video. It's pretty loud during stop/start. At speed it is not bad and much as I expected. The final stop at the end is a good example of the sound.
Robert


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## rwm

I have to say...other than the noise it works pretty well. I am just concerned the vibration may affect the finish. Here is some more video at 1500 rpm.






Robert


----------



## BriancCc

This looks great. Does the KB speed controller have all the breaking on the board or does it have an external breaking resistor?


----------



## rwm

The KB drive I chose is an SCR drive. As such, it needs no resistor for braking (everything on one small board) . It feeds braking energy back to the power line. But see my comments about noise/vibration above.
Robert


----------



## rwm

Now I just need to figure out where to mount the magnetic pickup. Question: I can glue the magnet to my spindle pulley but I have a concern. Over time could the small magnet magnetize the pulley or the spindle and cause it to attract chips? That would be bad. Should I make an aluminum ring and mount it on that so the magnet is not in contact with the pulley?

Robert


----------



## wrmiller

Unless the magnet you are using is some super high-intensity magnet I doubt that one little magnet can magnetize your spindle. But I have no factual data to back up my opinion, so your mileage may vary.


----------



## mksj

I would not worry about the tach magnetic magnetizing your pulley, it is very small. I have much stronger magnets on mine and do not have any issues, and have done multiple systems with these tachs and have not seen a problem. It may be the start up and stopping motor noise is the current injection into the motor wingdings from the KB controller. Often a loud hum when starting motors with a load, and stopping with braking. Since it is smooth when running, it should not affect the cutting performance.


----------



## rwm

This magnet:




Thanks guys. I agree probably wont cause an issue.
R


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## rwm

I used the lathe all day today and I must say I am very impressed with this controller! The automatic braking is very nice. Stops the lathe in a few seconds. If I lift a cover or hit Estop it stops in less than 1 sec. It maintains speed well under typical load. Yes it is noisy but I can live with that. The finish seems fine so far.
I have one nagging concern. I typically don't kill the main power when unchucking or rechucking a part or changing tools. I just turn the controller to the "off" position. The controller is therefore still powered up. My concern is about the unlikely event of a controller malfunction starting the motor when I am not expecting it. I think the controller is more likely to malfunction "in flight." Although I think a malfunction at rest highly unlikely I would feel better with an absolute lockout. So I had a small brainstorm...
 I am going to add some type of chuck key lockout switch. It will physically break the connection to the motor when the key is out of the ____. I have seen several examples of this but I am not sure which is best. I have considered: a cup or socket that receives the key, a hinged hanger for the key, and a spring loaded platform on which the key is set. I must contemplate these! Comments or examples welcome. I think this will make a very nice addition to this system.
Robert


----------



## mksj

I do not see the need to make it overly complicated regarding chucking and disconnecting power. The spindle direction rotary switch carries minimal current and I can not see it spontaneously closing in the stop position. Still, when I build my control systems, I do build in a minimum double redundancy for all my controls to operate. I am not sure how you wired your E-Stop, but it could be fitted with a dual block NC switches. When depressed, it disconnects the COM signal going to the spindle direction switch, and the other contact block disconnects the connection between EN and COM (which kills the drive controls). By pressing the E-Stop, it would be impossible for the motor to start, even if there was a short or faulty switch. You have three separate switch that are serially connected. Some VFD used a similar arrangement and use a latching relay for the activation of the EN-COM type of connection, it also prevents it from restarting if the power goes out. If changing the drive belt or any work on the lathe, I would turn off the power.

I would be more concerned about killing the power to the lathe and forgetting the spindle direction switch in in the forward or reverse position and the machine restarting. I prefer to use a power relay that will only latch with the spindle switch in the stop position, and this relay would then connect the EN-COM and and the COM to the direction switch going to the +/-15V control terminals. The E-Stop kills power to the power relay, which then disconnects all the signal pathways. It is possible to use a contactor or a switch to disconnect the motor, but I do not think it is necessary. These drives have power supply capacitors, it is probably not a good idea to turn on/off the controller frequently because of the current inrush.


----------



## rwm

mksj- Perhaps other SCR constollers work differently but my KB controller is still active when the Enable and COM connection is broken. My EStop breaks this connection. Keep in mind, that this causes the controller to actively power to a stop (not coasting.) In fact with the direction switch at off and EStop depressed, if you try to rotate the spindle by hand the control will send power to the motor to try to prevent it from moving. So a malfunction spinning the chuck does not seem to be out of the question.
Robert


----------



## Techee

Thank you, Robert, for posting this thread & the detailed steps to convert to a variable speed drive.

Your thread & another on a different site, convinced me to purchase a 10K last Friday.  I am now anxiously awaiting it.

I an a hobby machinist & welder, former owner of a Smithy CB 1220 for 22+ years & a recent owner of a Grizzly G0705 milling machine.

I am looking to go to the next level.  My experience no way matches yours or most of the others on this site.  I am eager to learn. Hopefully, I can tap some expertise from members...& eventually give back to the community.


----------



## 6061T6

Just saw this thread. I have to say this is very cool.

What is your maximum speed now? Is it 1500 RPM? Do you anticipate any problems running the lathe at say 2500 RPM? I am considering purchasing this lathe now that it is being discontinued and is on close out. But 1200 RPM is just too slow for some of my smaller parts. Do you think the bearings can handle this higher speed? 

Cheers!


----------



## rwm

I can now get over 2500 RPM if I wanted to but I have no way of knowing if the bearings would tolerate it. Others may have better advice on this. Also the chuck is rated at 2500.
How in the world did this thread get triplicates of attached files??? I did not do that and it has changed since my post?
R


----------



## aametalmaster

rwm said:


> How in the world did this thread get triplicates of attached files??? I did not do that and it has changed since my post?
> R


I was wondering the same thing. Lots of pics that are all the same..Bob


----------



## 6061T6

rwm said:


> I can now get over 2500 RPM if I wanted to but I have no way of knowing if the bearings would tolerate it. Others may have better advice on this. Also the chuck is rated at 2500.
> How in the world did this thread get triplicates of attached files??? I did not do that and it has changed since my post?
> R


After some sleuthing I found out that the SB1002 uses two types of spindle bearings: Japanese Nachi 32007J and 32009J tapered roller bearings. These are rated to 5600 RPM (grease) and 7400 RPM(oil). From the specs below it looks like the spindle bearings will have no difficulty handling 2500 RPM. 

More specs on these bearings here:
http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/m...ered-roller-bearing-e32009j-45mm-bore-75mm-od

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/m...ered-roller-bearing-e32007j-35mm-bore-62mm-od


----------



## 6061T6

I just called Grizzly tech support. The person I spoke to is their top tech support guy. He said that 2000 rpm would not be a problem at all. In fact he felt that the stock motor at 1150 rpm was out of place on that machine.


----------



## scrdmgl

rwm said:


> I am seriously considering the new South Bend 10K. It is certainly not a bargain and I feel it should come with more at the current price. Nevertheless, it looks like an excellent small lathe.
> I would definitely need to add a DRO. Has anyone recently put a DRO on a similar lathe? What kind of DRO should I be looking at? Magnetic or other? Can anyone give some specifics about attachment points for the encoders?
> I will also probably add a brake. This may be self designed or I may swap out the motor for a motor with a brake.
> Any thoughts appreciated!
> 
> View attachment 177603
> 
> R


Hi RWM: The owners of Grizzly (Sikhs from India), bought the right to the name South Bend and now are taking advantage of the former company's reputation in their "new" line of South Bend Lathes. They are made in China and they are of very good quality and finish and in fact a way above their own Grizzly line machinery.
Nothing wrong with that, however, they are way overpriced and neither you or me want to know their cost and mark up. China, contrary to popular knowledge or opinion, manufactures anything for a price. They are given directions by distributors, as to the quality of materials, craftsmanship, design and most important price, for any piece of machinery or item. At the same time, China manufactures Industrial Grade Equipment second to none, sold in the US and all over the world at competitive prices.
So the common notion that China manufactures "cheap junk" is the product of ignorance and prejudice. They in fact, have made possible for home shop and hobbyists, the purchase of equipment at affordable prices that require "finishing touches", improvements and general TLC. As for your one decision, I would recommend a middle ground in price within your selected size and features. In general as always, "you get what you pay for". If you have the time, patience and knowledge, one of the cheapies, can be converted into a little jewel. You'll find countless examples of that in the web. In the end, it is you the owner and operator, that is the deciding factor and not the equipment.
I've seen masterpieces made in lowly 7x12 lathes.


----------



## rwm

This is how she stands now:







R


----------



## Kalos

We SB-1002 owners are few and far between. I've only found the names and addresses of three.
If someone is interested in sharing SB1002-specific information, they could contact me privately,, and I'll make sure they get on our little mailing list.

Incidentally, there is a very good review of the SB-1002 in July/August, 2017 Home Shop Machinist, written by Doug Ripka.


----------



## Bamban

scrdmgl said:


> Hi RWM: The owners of Grizzly (Sikhs from India), bought the right to the name South Bend and now are taking advantage of the former company's reputation in their "new" line of South Bend Lathes. They are made in China and they are of very good quality and finish and in fact a way above their own Grizzly line machinery.
> Nothing wrong with that, however, they are way overpriced and neither you or me want to know their cost and mark up. China, contrary to popular knowledge or opinion, manufactures anything for a price. They are given directions by distributors, as to the quality of materials, craftsmanship, design and most important price, for any piece of machinery or item. At the same time, China manufactures Industrial Grade Equipment second to none, sold in the US and all over the world at competitive prices.
> So the common notion that China manufactures "cheap junk" is the product of ignorance and prejudice. They in fact, have made possible for home shop and hobbyists, the purchase of equipment at affordable prices that require "finishing touches", improvements and general TLC. As for your one decision, I would recommend a middle ground in price within your selected size and features. In general as always, "you get what you pay for". If you have the time, patience and knowledge, one of the cheapies, can be converted into a little jewel. You'll find countless examples of that in the web. In the end, it is you the owner and operator, that is the deciding factor and not the equipment.
> I've seen masterpieces made in lowly 7x12 lathes.



I thought the 1002 is made in Taiwan, where did you read that the 1002 is ChiCom made?


----------



## JB

I have found a brand new SB1002 along with SB1035 stand/base cabinet for the lathe for $3000. This would be my first lathe. I also want it to be my last. Previously I intended to buy the PM-1030. After I have a nice stand made for it the costs would be the same. I believe the quality on the South Bend would be good and at that price I would expect it to hold its value for me. I like that the PM lathe comes with power cross-feed, QCTP, and variable speed with a higher top end. Which should I buy?


----------



## DoogieB

I don't own a SB1002 and what you buy is up to you, but it does have a power cross feed and also a real Norton quick-change gear box.  I seen the SB1035 lathe stand at the store.  It was quite nice and looked like my old one (the stand is USA made), although I don't know if I would pay over a grand for it.

The SB1002 has been discontinued for awhile now, so if you go that route you have to make sure you grab all the accessories while you can.


----------



## old_dave

The SB 1002 has a standard spindle nose, a D1-3" cam lock spindle nose. Chucks, including spindle nose 5C collet chucks, will be relatively easy to source. It looks like the PM-1030 has its own non-standard spindle nose which will limit what spindle nose tooling you can use.
 David


----------



## DoogieB

Yeah, I was thinking about the follow rest (not so important) and the steady rest (vital).  I believe these were extra.


----------



## rwm

I have a steady rest but it could also be easily made. Ask Mark!

Robert


----------



## PSMCGUIRE57

Well, so much to read and learn here. Thank you all. Perhaps I can reboot this thread.

I bought a Griz made SB 10K  earlier this week. I think I got the best of a lot of 5 sold here in MN. They were surplus HS shop lathes. Seems to be very low hours. Ways look excellent, cross feed and compound too are tight & smooth. Spindle looks good, but couldn't run it due to lack of power available.

I was thinking of replacing the stock chuck with a 6" Buck, but comments here on the quality of the SB chuck make me wonder if it's worth it.

What do you guys advise I do to set this up well. It will be used under very close supervision by HS students on my Robotics teams. We are trying to expose city kids to actually using tools to fix & make things.  Once we get started they love it, but most have no idea how to use a tape measure, square or cordless drill when they get here!

Astrobuf


----------



## PSMCGUIRE57

scrdmgl said:


> Hi RWM: The owners of Grizzly (Sikhs from India), bought the right to the name South Bend and now are taking advantage of the former company's reputation in their "new" line of South Bend Lathes. They are made in China and they are of very good quality and finish and in fact a way above their own Grizzly line machinery.
> Nothing wrong with that, however, they are way overpriced and neither you or me want to know their cost and mark up. China, contrary to popular knowledge or opinion, manufactures anything for a price. They are given directions by distributors, as to the quality of materials, craftsmanship, design and most important price, for any piece of machinery or item. At the same time, China manufactures Industrial Grade Equipment second to none, sold in the US and all over the world at competitive prices.
> So the common notion that China manufactures "cheap junk" is the product of ignorance and prejudice. They in fact, have made possible for home shop and hobbyists, the purchase of equipment at affordable prices that require "finishing touches", improvements and general TLC. As for your one decision, I would recommend a middle ground in price within your selected size and features. In general as always, "you get what you pay for". If you have the time, patience and knowledge, one of the cheapies, can be converted into a little jewel. You'll find countless examples of that in the web. In the end, it is you the owner and operator, that is the deciding factor and not the equipment.
> I've seen masterpieces made in lowly 7x12 lathes.


I think you are very misinformed!


----------



## PSMCGUIRE57

DoogieB said:


> I don't own a SB1002 and what you buy is up to you, but it does have a power cross feed and also a real Norton quick-change gear box.  I seen the SB1035 lathe stand at the store.  It was quite nice and looked like my old one (the stand is USA made), although I don't know if I would pay over a grand for it.
> 
> The SB1002 has been discontinued for awhile now, so if you go that route you have to make sure you grab all the accessories while you can.


I believe it will mount old SB accessories as well?


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## PSMCGUIRE57

I have recently purchased a sB1002 Grizzly made 10K lathe. I need drive belts. The Griz/SB belt model # is 5MS-730a. Griz want $100 delivered for this belt. Most micro v belts cost <$20. Does this cross reference to another part/model # that I could consider?


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## rwm

Banflex 3-5MS-730 (730mm is the length ) I used this information to make a new pulley.
Drive belts rarely break but it would be nice to have a spare.

It is this one:








						3-5MS730 Banflex Combo Metric (Polyurethane) Belt
					

3-5MS730 Banflex Combo Metric (Polyurethane) Manufacturer BANDO BANDO Belt 3-5MS730 Belt Type Banflex Combo Technical Specifications: (Inches) (mm) Outside Circumference 28.74 730.00 Top Width 0.60 15.24 Belt Depth 0.13 3.30 Material Polyurethane Ribs / Bands 3 Alternative Part Number(s)...




					beltzoom.com
				




EDIT: Actually there are two belts and I am not sure they are the same length. You should check that. Please let me know what you determine.


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## IamNotImportant

PSMCGUIRE57 said:


> I have recently purchased a sB1002 Grizzly made 10K lathe. I need drive belts. The Griz/SB belt model # is 5MS-730a. Griz want $100 delivered for this belt. Most micro v belts cost <$20. Does this cross reference to another part/model # that I could consider?


try here





						V Belts  | Vbelts4Less Top Quality and Service
					






					www.vbelts4less.com


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## PSMCGUIRE57

Thx

Both drive belts on my lathe are pretty chewed up. Bought it in an auction of High School shop equipment being surplussed. I'm guessing the lathe was 2012 vintage. Generally in pretty good shape.

Why did you modify your drive pulleys?

Thx


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## rwm

IamNotImportant said:


> try here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> V Belts  | Vbelts4Less Top Quality and Service
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vbelts4less.com


They don't appear to have it.


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## IamNotImportant

rwm said:


> They don't appear to have it.


was worth a try


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## rwm

PSMCGUIRE57 said:


> Thx
> 
> Both drive belts on my lathe are pretty chewed up. Bought it in an auction of High School shop equipment being surplussed. I'm guessing the lathe was 2012 vintage. Generally in pretty good shape.
> 
> Why did you modify your drive pulleys?
> 
> Thx


See post 136 in this thread.


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## PSMCGUIRE57

rwm said:


> Banflex 3-5MS-730 (730mm is the length ) I used this information to make a new pulley.
> Drive belts rarely break but it would be nice to have a spare.
> 
> It is this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3-5MS730 Banflex Combo Metric (Polyurethane) Belt
> 
> 
> 3-5MS730 Banflex Combo Metric (Polyurethane) Manufacturer BANDO BANDO Belt 3-5MS730 Belt Type Banflex Combo Technical Specifications: (Inches) (mm) Outside Circumference 28.74 730.00 Top Width 0.60 15.24 Belt Depth 0.13 3.30 Material Polyurethane Ribs / Bands 3 Alternative Part Number(s)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beltzoom.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Actually there are two belts and I am not sure they are the same length. You should check that. Please let me know what you determine.


Thx.

Tried to order from your linked supplier. The order process blew up. Good deal though. $35

I'll call them in the a.m.

Bust be a pretty obscure part. Google seems to come up empty on searches.


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## PSMCGUIRE57

rwm said:


> They don't appear to have it.


Yeah, the V Belts guys don't seem to carry this belt, but the 1st link you provided is promissing.


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## rwm

I think it's a metric pattern that is more common in Asia and Europe. Googles paid advertising doesn't help since it sees the word "belt" and throws a bunch of standard American suppliers at you that have no chance of carrying this! Sill, Google gets credit for driving a hit to their website.

EDIT: I checked my records and I bought my belt here:





						V-Belt Global Supply, LLC. | V-Belt Online Catalog
					

Shop VBeltSupply.com for power drive belts! We are the largest online distributor of v-belts, including industrial, Kevlar, timing, cogged, and more.




					www.vbeltsupply.com
				



They don't seem to have the Bandflex, however, they list the Gates equivalent as 3/5M730. They want $86!









						3/5M730JB Gates PolyFlex
					

5mm (3/16") X 730mm - 3 Band Gates 3/5M730JB Bando 3-5MS730 072053262377 8912-3730/89123730 3 5M730JB - International shipments please allow 2-4 extra days for handling -




					www.vbeltsupply.com
				












						Gates 3/5M730JB Polyflex JB Belts
					

Gates Replacement 3/5M730JB Polyflex JB Belts




					texasbelting.com
				









						Gates Polyflex JB Belts, 3/5M730JB 3/5M730JB | Zoro
					

Order Gates Polyflex JB Belts, 3/5M730JB, 3/5M730JB at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.




					www.zoro.com
				




The pics of the Gates look right so I think it will fit if you can't get the Bando brand


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## PSMCGUIRE57

rwm said:


> Banflex 3-5MS-730 (730mm is the length ) I used this information to make a new pulley.
> Drive belts rarely break but it would be nice to have a spare.
> 
> It is this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3-5MS730 Banflex Combo Metric (Polyurethane) Belt
> 
> 
> 3-5MS730 Banflex Combo Metric (Polyurethane) Manufacturer BANDO BANDO Belt 3-5MS730 Belt Type Banflex Combo Technical Specifications: (Inches) (mm) Outside Circumference 28.74 730.00 Top Width 0.60 15.24 Belt Depth 0.13 3.30 Material Polyurethane Ribs / Bands 3 Alternative Part Number(s)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beltzoom.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Actually there are two belts and I am not sure they are the same length. You should check that. Please let me know what you determine.


The Griz SB parts list cites the same part # for both. 5MS-730a.

As I understand the numbering system, the 5MS represents the width of the micro V belt. The 730 is the bt length in mm. Not sure what the "a" means.


Thx

Pat


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## rwm

Check this:









						Gates 3/5M730JB Polyflex JB Light Duty v-belt 8912-3730  NEW 1 PC 89123730 72053262377 | eBay
					

3-5M730JB Light duty Polyflex 3 banded 5M730 v-belt 730mm effective length 89123730. Product Number: 89123730. Gates 3/5M730JB Polyflex JB Light Duty v-belt 8912-3730. Belt Top Width Per Strand (mm): 5.



					www.ebay.com
				




Not a terrible price with free shipping.


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## rwm

Where are you with this? Any solution?


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