# Opinions On Buying The First Lathe. (or The Never Ending, "what Lathe Should I Buy," Question.)



## Toysinthehood (Aug 5, 2016)

Hey all,

I'm looking to buy my first lathe.  I need opinions on brands people prefer and general pricing.  I'm familiar 

with larger Lathes, but I cannot afford or fit one into the space I have in my townhouse. I've scoured Craigslist

and several other online buying networks to try and find one that would work to no avail.  I've run mostly 14''  
swings with 4'-5' or larger but was looking for something around 9"x36''. I have no experience with South 

Bend, Logan or other american made lathes that are for the home shop. I've used Acer, Clausing-Colchester, 

Cadillac, Kingston, Leblond and a couple of other brands, some of which are on the cnc side, Mori Seiki, 

Southwest-Trac, and I run a Kia VTL at work.  The closest thing I've touched to, "Old Iron," is the American 

radial drill we have at work. It's been around for a while, we even have a 1944 Betts. It is the biggest machine 

I have ever seen. Without further ado, here are my requirements, or rather desires.

Any brand.

9-12'' swing, any length up to 48'' (If it weighs over 1000 #'s it's a no go, such as a larger Monarch.)

Quiet (I know this is something I might have to adjust myself, but if there are any brand specific lathes I could search for I need to know them.)

Has a QCGB preferably

Is accurate or has adjustments for accuracy.

Is modestly priced.

I'm from Kansas City. There are South Bends here that people have listed for $3000, There are Atlas lathes here in shambles for $700 and one or two Logans from $700 to $1600 on craigslist. I checked out South Bend Indiana's craigslist and they have a couple of South Bends from $650 up. Do I drive there? I'm really at a loss looking for these things because I have no relative knowledge to the specific market. I'm not trying to buy a Sieg or Sherline either, but still want to hear your opinion if you own those.

Thanks,

Zach


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## Bob Korves (Aug 5, 2016)

Your 1000# limit will crowd or stop you at the larger end of your range.  Are you in any particular hurry to get this lathe?  If so, there are new import choices from the usual suspects -- Grizzly, Precision Matthews, and many others.  They will require some work to make right.  For a used lathe, you will need to watch the market and study different models of lathes long enough to find out the going prices and then wait for the right deal.  Buying a used lathe is a moving target because you will find lathes in good and poor condition, with or without tooling, some with basic tooling, others with everything you can imagine, some with mechanical issues and broken or missing parts.  Some are near and some far away.  Caveat Emptor is more important when buying machine tools than for buying just about anything else.  You will end up comparing apples and oranges, some of them with rotten spots, some with cherries on top.  Take your time, study carefully, look at possible candidates, and most of all enjoy the ride.


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## Toysinthehood (Aug 5, 2016)

Bob, 

Thanks for the quick reply! The 1000# limit does sound a little ridiculous, but I'm unsure if my floors can hold all that weight. I'm looking for a smaller lathe, some of which I'm sure weigh 300 plus, which seems like a lot to me on the small spectrum. I am surprised at the weight of the smaller machines. I know the Logan 9b-17-1 weighs 285 according to the lathe.com website. As far as tooling goes, I can make a good part of that. I'm not in a particular hurry to buy a lathe, it's more of a I "want," it now. As far as the used Lathes are a moving target and caveat emptor, I totally agree. What models do you recommend from Grizzly or Precision Matthews?

Zach


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## schor (Aug 5, 2016)

logan, atlas, southbend all would fit your requirements and they sometimes can be found with accessories and tooling for under $1000.


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## Splat (Aug 5, 2016)

You say you've run bigger machines so would you know what to look for when evaluating a used lathe? If so then that opens up your possibilities but you're then at the mercy of what's available, transporting it, etc...  For new I would look at Grizzly G0602, G0752 (same as 602 but with VFD), or G04002. Precision Matthews' PM-1127, PM1022V, and PM1030V lathes have gotten good reviews. Anything bigger than the G04002 or PM1030V is pro'lly gonna weight over 1000lbs (after uncrating from shipping packaging). You could keep tooling costs down by going with HSS instead of carbide inserts. If you can't find anything used for a decent price then I would strongly suggest any of the new lathes I listed.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Aug 5, 2016)

I once owned a 13 X 48 5100 model Clausing made in the 50's, probably did not weigh more then 1500 Lb's. An excellent variable speed Reeves drive machine, 50-2000+ rpms, gearbox, spindle clutch and brake. They have an A0 spindle nose which may be a problem finding chucks for these days, overall a very nice light machine however.


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## mksj (Aug 5, 2016)

A bit abstract as to what your work envelop needed, features and price range (not sure what moderate is when talking about the lathes you have used). I would include the PM1228VF-LB, with a standard D1-4 chuck, 2 hp BLDC motor, power feeds, etc. on the short list. If I recall it is a variant of the Sieg SC10, at around 500Lb it gives a very nice work envelop. If you want to push up a little higher level on new iron, then you might look at the Grizzly G4003G (lathe itself is 1000lbs) or the the Eisen 1236 which is on sale. The latter is very quiet.
https://eisenm.com/collections/benc...-stand-made-in-taiwan-single-phase-220v-motor


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## Bamban (Aug 5, 2016)

Mark,

That Eisen looks nice. Curious if it has the same length spindle as the 1340GT.


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## MSD0 (Aug 5, 2016)

What is your definition of "moderately priced"? We love spending someone else's money and it would help to know what you can afford


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## Bob Korves (Aug 5, 2016)

Toysinthehood said:


> Bob,
> 
> Thanks for the quick reply! The 1000# limit does sound a little ridiculous, but I'm unsure if my floors can hold all that weight. I'm looking for a smaller lathe, some of which I'm sure weigh 300 plus, which seems like a lot to me on the small spectrum. I am surprised at the weight of the smaller machines. I know the Logan 9b-17-1 weighs 285 according to the lathe.com website. As far as tooling goes, I can make a good part of that. I'm not in a particular hurry to buy a lathe, it's more of a I "want," it now. As far as the used Lathes are a moving target and caveat emptor, I totally agree. What models do you recommend from Grizzly or Precision Matthews?
> 
> Zach


I am not questioning any of your requirements.  You are a machinist and you know your needs and what you can handle in money, time, and physical size.  Stick pretty close to your guns on what you think you really want and need.  I personally do not like the idea of buying new Chinese lathes instead of used iron.  To put that in perspective, I own a Kent USA (made in China...) 13x40 lathe.  Kent sells mostly industrial tools, mine is the smallest lathe they sell.  I got it used, but in new condition, for well less than half of what they cost new.  Yes, I had to clean it up and go over all the bolts and nuts and adjustments to make them correct, but you need to do all that with a new Chinese lathe as well.  The only thing I did not get for my money was a warranty, which is more similar to a used machine, and mine was used, maybe an hour or two by someone who had no clue what he was doing...

There are many others on this forum who can help you with the latest import models, and their pluses and minuses.  I am too frugal to buy new machines...

I spent a couple of years searching and kicking tires before I bought my lathe, and I am really glad I did...

Welcome to the forum, by the way!


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## Ulma Doctor (Aug 5, 2016)

you'll have some difficulties trying to find a 36" between centers and a 9" swing.
the best you'll probably do is a Taiwanese 1236. i own one and use it the most. very nice machine- 670 lbs
i have a Hercus ARH 922 that i love to death, it an improved SB9 that runs v belts instead of flat belts- just a beautiful machine to use. (est) 450 lbs.
if i could only choose one, it would be the 1236 because of the larger swing- but i'd rally hate to make that choice, it would be like choosing between children.
i usually find a patient with minor to moderate problems, at the right price or lower, and put the humpty dumpties back together again.
i'm not suggesting that that is the best route for all, merely suggesting another possibility for someone who may be as mad as i.


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## mikey (Aug 6, 2016)

Then there is good ol' Austrian Iron, like an Emco Super 11. This is an 11" lathe with a 25" center to center, 2HP and weighs about 550#. It is pretty quiet for a gear head lathe with quick change, has power feeds and is very, very accurate. Later models of the Super 11 as well as the Super 11 CD have a 1-3/8" spindle bore and a D1-4 chuck mount. They come up for sale from time to time and if you find one in nice condition then its worthy of your consideration. Parts are hard to come by but most guys who have had them for decades say they don't break often. It is put together in typical high accuracy European fashion - everything fits precisely and there is no tune up required to use it. I've only had mine for about 4+ years and it is now fully tooled up; it is a very nice lathe to own. 

Sherline is a very nice lathe but I don't think it will have the work envelope you need. It is a very precise lathe, though I doubt a career machinist would find it suitable.


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## Paul in OKC (Aug 6, 2016)

What you intend to be making plays as big a part as any in this decision.  The lathes mentioned, Logan, SB, an Atlas all make decent machines for the size.  The reason I say decent is if you are like me (I am a machinist also), running a small lathe takes a lot of patience. I have a 6x24 Atlas, and am rebuilding a Heavy 10 SB.  Patience because you will feel like you are whittling instead of cutting like 'regular' machine that you are used to.  Being able to take 1/4" a side or more cut at the shop can make a home machine frustrating. That has always been my issue .


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## markba633csi (Aug 6, 2016)

In terms of weight, Atlas lightest, Logan heaviest, and South Bend in the middle.  I would get a small Logan. Wards also put their name on them. 
MS


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## tq60 (Aug 6, 2016)

For floor loading look at 1 1/8 subfloor mateeial.

We really like "plytanium" brand at lowes.

It is rated for 48 inch span so it can really aid in distributing your loads as well as protecting floor from mess.

You can build a bench that attaches to the material that will spread the small point loads of bench feet to wide area loads.

A 5 X 3 size would be 15 Sq feet so a 1000 pound load would be less than 100 pounds per Sq ft.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk


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## Toysinthehood (Aug 7, 2016)

First, thanks to everyone on their thoughts, this helped a tremendous amount in my perspective. Second, sorry for the late response. I have a newborn and I'm struggling trying to even get enough sleep with work and her responsibilities. I really like all the various machines, I have been looking at a lot of the newer ones online, and researching the older ones, (the Hercus, Emco 11, is it Emco or is it Enco?) I really want to stick within the smaller range, but the PM's with the larger spindle bore caught my eye. That Eisen is really nice as well. I really like the removable gap. As far as moderately priced goes well... I don't want to spend more than $5-800 max on something like a Southbend, or Logan 9" not loaded with any tooling, really just a qcgb and tailstock, with a good ways. I wouldn't be as willing to spend as much on an Atlas. Maybe I'm wrong but they don't look nearly as rigid. New machines I could probably just save up and get something like the PM, or Eisen, in a range from 1-3 thousand. Paul in okc, I'm scared that I'm going to get a tiny machine and think, what even is this, a toy? I've ran the sieg look alike from harbor freight, 7x14 and I hated it. Without tooling though, how much is a fair price for a used Southbend, Logan or Atlas, 9'', bare bones? I think I might start a pricing guide for other lost souls. The things I'm going to be making at first are small prototyping pieces. I want to be able to make larger acme threads eventually, and want to use it as a mill, or at least have a milling attachment, to make gears as well as machine flats. I might have to turn rings though, to the full size of the swing, pulleys, clocks, planetary gears? Again thanks everyone for your input, I've been reading every post as they come, I just haven't been able to respond due to work and my daughter. Your time is very appreciated.

Thanks,
Zach


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## mikey (Aug 7, 2016)

Toysinthehood said:


> is it Emco or is it Enco?



It's EMCO. They made some very fine lathes but are not nearly as common as American iron or Asian stuff.


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## Toysinthehood (Aug 7, 2016)

mikey said:


> It's EMCO. They made some very fine lathes but are not nearly as common as American iron or Asian stuff.


Thanks!


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## Bob Korves (Aug 7, 2016)

mikey said:


> It's EMCO. They made some very fine lathes but are not nearly as common as American iron or Asian stuff.


Actually, it is both Emco AND Enco.  Emco has supplied higher quality European lathes made by several manufacturers, and Enco is an old American company who sold equipment from many manufacturers re-branded with the Enco name.  Most of the Enco machines over the last several decades were made in Taiwan and China, lately nearly all from China.  Enco is currently being absorbed by its parent company, MSC, and that brand will likely soon go away
http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/index.html  The European Emco lathes.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/  Index.  This is a really useful site for someone looking to purchase a lathe.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHM  Their last month in business...


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## Reeltor (Aug 7, 2016)

With the limits that you set, I think a Logan would be something to look for.  Anything with a SouthBend name on it generally is priced WAY to HIGH.  I bought my Monarch 16CW from a machinist's estate for $1,500 w/tooling.  The executor sold 3 clapped out (his words) SouthBend lathes for over $3,000 each.  At the same time he had a Logan in very good condition (again his words) that went for only $900.
Of course everyone has their own opinion and I don't want to get into a Ford/Chevy/MoPar argument but I would rather have a nice Logan than a similar SB.
Good luck and congratulations on the new baby!

Mike


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## mikey (Aug 7, 2016)

Bob Korves said:


> Actually, it is both Emco AND Enco.  Emco has supplied higher quality European lathes made by several manufacturers ...



This is news to me, Bob. As far as I know, EMCO Maier made all their own machines up until they sold part of their company to Profi Heimwerkermaschinen Gmbh, who took over the "hobby class" metal (Unimat and Compac series; Emco continued to make the Compac 5 for Profi Heim) and wood working machines. At no time did they sell other maker's machines under their brand name, at least not to my knowledge.

Profi Heim went out of business in 2001. The current Unimat 4 and Compac 8E are made in China but is not sold by Emco. Emco continues to produce machines but they are fully committed to CNC lathes and milling centers and no longer produce or support any of the manual machines.


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## Cheeseking (Aug 7, 2016)

If you are not in a hurry look for one of these..
11 x 30"
I think it weighs 950# +|-    They are out there and come up occasionally, but most Ive seen are rough and asking prices are usually more than $1000.
Great little lathe though.  A few of us on the forum have them.


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## Tony Wells (Aug 7, 2016)

According to one of their distributors:

"The success of EMCO Group began with the production of conventional lathes in 1947. Today EMCO is a group of companies known for their innovative solutions, with production sites in Austria, Germany, Italy and Czech Republic."


The last larger shop I worked in bought a Hyperturn 65 from Emco-Maier. Pretty impressive machine, but I still prefer the Integrex family (Mazak)

https://www.mazakusa.com/machines/process/5-axis/

All positively OT lol other than Emco makes nice equipment.


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## Cheeseking (Aug 7, 2016)

I looked at and considered a few Emco Super 11's also but this one found me first


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## Bob Korves (Aug 8, 2016)

mikey said:


> This is news to me, Bob. As far as I know, EMCO Maier made all their own machines up until they sold part of their company to Profi Heimwerkermaschinen Gmbh, who took over the "hobby class" metal (Unimat and Compac series; Emco continued to make the Compac 5 for Profi Heim) and wood working machines. At no time did they sell other maker's machines under their brand name, at least not to my knowledge.
> 
> Profi Heim went out of business in 2001. The current Unimat 4 and Compac 8E are made in China but is not sold by Emco. Emco continues to produce machines but they are fully committed to CNC lathes and milling centers and no longer produce or support any of the manual machines.


You are probably correct, Mike.  I am not that familiar with EMCO products and was just going by the paragraph at the bottom of the page here:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/index.html
Re-reading it, it appears to be the other way around, with EMCO Maier making machines for Profi Heim.  It sounds pretty convoluted, but seems to be limited to the early 21st century.  Apologies for any misstatements on my part.  I was just trying to contrast Emco and Enco and state that both exist.  The OP's question was "Is it Emco or Enco?" and your reply seemed to deny the existence of Enco, which will soon be correct...


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## Toysinthehood (Aug 8, 2016)

Yeah, I had never heard of Emco until you mentioned the brand Mikey. I thought it might have been a typo. I tried searching Emco 11 and nothing really came up in Google on the top so I originally took it as Enco being misspelled.


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## Toysinthehood (Aug 8, 2016)

I forgot to mention, now I know the difference!


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## Toysinthehood (Aug 8, 2016)

Tony Wells said:


> According to one of their distributors:
> 
> "The success of EMCO Group began with the production of conventional lathes in 1947. Today EMCO is a group of companies known for their innovative solutions, with production sites in Austria, Germany, Italy and Czech Republic."
> 
> ...


That's a real nice one you got there.


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## mikey (Aug 8, 2016)

Bob Korves said:


> Apologies for any misstatements on my part.



None required, Bob.


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## markba633csi (Aug 8, 2016)

Cheeseking said:


> I looked at and considered a few Emco Super 11's also but this one found me first


Is that a Clausing? I can't quite make out the label at the bottom.. Nice looking rig
Mark S.


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## Cheeseking (Aug 9, 2016)

markba633csi said:


> Is that a Clausing? I can't quite make out the label at the bottom.. Nice looking rig
> Mark S.



Oops sorry yes.   1979 Clausing Colchester 11"  (MK2 Bantam)


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