# Just Acquired a SB 9A. Questions.



## ShagDog (Mar 30, 2021)

Over the weekend, I made a 9 hour one way trek to buy a SB9A Just getting it cleaned up a little. It has a catalog number of 544-R which is the 4 1/2 foot bed with 8 speed V- Belt drive.

I also ran it in all 8 speeds and with the cross feed, longitudinal feed and thread feed, and everything seemed to run nicely Got it moved to position and will let it sit overnight before I try to level it. It is now about .010" out of level (twist). I do want to get turning on it.

It came with a taper attachment, QCTP, 3-jaw chuck, face plate, lathe dogs , live center and other stuff in the pictures.

Before I turn on it, I want to find out as much as possible about this lathe, and I want to make sure my spindle is getting oiled. In the pictures, you will see the oil cups. I topped them off with some 20w non-detergent oil, and they seem to use very little oil. How long does the oil stay in the cup when they are lubricating properly? In other words, how would I know if the bearings are getting enough oil. Also, there are 2 holes right above the oil cups; are these breather holes or what?

I do plan on making a new pulley tightening rod, eventually.

I'm sure I will have more questions, later.


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## jcp (Mar 30, 2021)

The holes are for installation of the wicks under the spindle. With the spindle removed you press the wick down against it's spring and run a wire through the hole and over the wick. This holds the wick retracted so you can install the spindle. Just pull the wire out after the spindle is in place and the wick will rise against the spindle. By the way 20Wt oil is too heavy for the spindle and the clutch reservoir.....SB calls for 10 in those two places.   When the wicks and clearances of the spindle are correct the spindle reservoirs rarely need any oil added. They will show a minor level change when running but it should come back to full when stopped.


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## ShagDog (Mar 30, 2021)

Jcp, I appreciate the excellent response. I'll have to get some 10w. How can I tell if the wicks are in there, without removing the spindle? I don't intend to remove the spindle at this time. Per my calculations, the spindle runout with a DTI on the shoulder and just turning by hand, appears to be around .0001" with which I am very pleased.

However, I did discover 2 issues so far. The backgear nearest the spindle nose is missing a tooth. Looks like a sheared off perfectly because I can't really tell there was one there. Does not appear to affect it with no load. I guess I will know more when I try to turn something in backgear.

The second issue is the cross slide compound threads being worn around the middle, creating some back and forth play in the cross slide.


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## markba633csi (Mar 30, 2021)

The V belt versions are hard to find- great score! 
-Mark


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## jcp (Mar 30, 2021)

Welcome to 50+ years old machinery! 
New lead screws are available and change the nut also.....you need to find another back gear or repair yours....it will show up when under a load. 
You have to remove the spindle to check the wicks....not a big deal.


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## Manual Mac (Mar 30, 2021)

Yes the V belt versions are great.
Looks well tooled.
Love the patina. Resist the urge to paint it.


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## ShagDog (Mar 30, 2021)

Thanks again, jcp. The 2 backs gears look to be a non-removable part of a shaft. Am I seeing that correctly. In other words, if I look for a new back gear, will I need to find the whole assembly with both back gears and shaft???


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## ShagDog (Mar 30, 2021)

Manual Mac said:


> Yes the V belt versions are great.
> Looks well tooled.
> Love the patina. Resist the urge to paint it.


The "patina" is just grime . I have no desire paint it. I am one for function over form.


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## jcp (Mar 30, 2021)

The two gears are on a 'spool' or 'sleeve' and removable shaft runs through the 'spool' to mount them to the headstock. The original part number for the back gear appears to be AS361NK2. I have seen them repaired with brass or by welding. It's a bit tedious but doable.


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## lordbeezer (Mar 30, 2021)

I would recommend replacing all wicks. If not doable now at least the spindle wicks.


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## ShagDog (Mar 31, 2021)

Question. The orange motor drive belt is shredding away at the edges. I think it may be too large for the motor pulley; but not sure. It is an interesting set up in that the belt is a "V" belt and the counterbalance pulley is flat while the motor pulley is a V. Should I just use the belt as is so I can try some turning, or should I get a new V belt. Other options and comments welcome. Here are some photos.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Mar 31, 2021)

I'd get a new belt, they're not expensive. Gates AX (1/2" wide) V-belts are really nice and wrap well around small pulleys.


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## ShagDog (Mar 31, 2021)

Another question. The serial # is 113591 JFP. Could not find anything in my search with the letters JFP. Anyone know what the approximate date might be?


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## DavidR8 (Mar 31, 2021)

ShagDog said:


> Another question. The serial # is 113591 JFP. Could not find anything in my search with the letters JFP. Anyone know what the approximate date might be?


Can you post a picture of the serial number?


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## jcp (Mar 31, 2021)

ShagDog said:


> Another question. The serial # is 113591 JFP. Could not find anything in my search with the letters JFP. Anyone know what the approximate date might be?


I think you can call SB and they can help you with this....used to be able to anyway.


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## Weldingrod1 (Mar 31, 2021)

That looks just like -my- first lathe! It's a great machine!

You need to plan to make one of these for when the "oh, #$%! My chuck is stuck!" Moment arrives... a 3D printed one would almost certainly work. Mine was hand filed and semi-broached off my spare/broken back gear.

I'm also voting for "swap the spindle felts". I wish I had done it earlier! Pulling the spindle isn't all that difficult. The hard part is finding the courage to do it! You can pump oil into those felt holding holes if you want to flush things a bit. It won't clear the sump, though. 100% chance your felts are hard and crudded up if they haven't ever been changed (like mine)...

And clean, clean, clean the spindle threads (inside and outside)!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## DavidR8 (Mar 31, 2021)

If you go to www.wswells.com you can look at the serial number database and narrow down  the year of manufacture.


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## DavidR8 (Mar 31, 2021)

Weldingrod1 said:


> That looks just like -my- first lathe! It's a great machine!
> 
> You need to plan to make one of these for when the "oh, #$%! My chuck is stuck!" Moment arrives... a 3D printed one would almost certainly work. Mine was hand filed and semi-broached off my spare/broken back gear.
> 
> ...


That's an interesting idea. Do you have a picture of where that mounts?


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## DavidR8 (Mar 31, 2021)

ShagDog said:


> Another question. The serial # is 113591 JFP. Could not find anything in my search with the letters JFP. Anyone know what the approximate date might be?


Looks to be 1941


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## DavidR8 (Mar 31, 2021)

Whoops @ShagDog I transposed your serial number as *113951* instead of *113591.*
No matter really as it still looks to be a 1941.


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## ShagDog (Mar 31, 2021)

Thanks all. David, I had read that where letters are included with the serial number were referring to lathes made after they stopped using numbers only, in 1947. Here is the link to the South Bend site. 





						South Bend Lathe Co.
					






					www.southbendlathe.com
				




Maybe I am misinterpreting, particularly since I can't find a "J" (part of my serial number) in the letter codes. David, do you still want me to see if I can get a good photos of the #?


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## DavidR8 (Mar 31, 2021)

ShagDog said:


> Thanks all. David, I had read that where letters are included with the serial number were referring to lathes made after they stopped using numbers only, in 1947. Here is the link to the South Bend site.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes a photo would be great.


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## ShagDog (Mar 31, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> Yes a photo would be great.


Here's the photo.


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## ShagDog (Mar 31, 2021)

Update: Lathe leveled with a 98-6. Took a test cut on a 1" diameter piece about 3.25" long with no tailstock support, and did some facing of the piece. Did not use the back gear. The taper is only around .0001" over the 3.25" I know it isn't that long a distance. I just wanted to test the lathe. I am pleased .

I did put a live center in the TS to check my tool height; however, it will not come out when I crank it all the way back. Any ideas on how to get it out?


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## SLK001 (Mar 31, 2021)

ShagDog said:


> Here's the photo.


Your letters were not put on the lathe by SB.  Some previous owner stamped them for some nefarious purpose (to confuse future owners)!


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## SLK001 (Mar 31, 2021)

As for your live center, your going to have to extend the TS spindle all the way out (past the end of the screw engagement), pull out the spindle and punch your center out.


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## DavidR8 (Mar 31, 2021)

SLK001 said:


> Your letters were not put on the lathe by SB.  Some previous owner stamped them for some nefarious purpose (to confuse future owners)!


Yup, @ShagDog  I'd suggest that your lathe  was originally owned by John Fitzroy Portsmouth.
Or pehaps Jeremiah Floyd Phillips.
Could also have been James Francis Porter.
The possibilities are endless


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## ShagDog (Mar 31, 2021)

SLK001 said:


> As for your live center, your going to have to extend the TS spindle all the way out (past the end of the screw engagement), pull out the spindle and punch your center out.


Thanks. That was easy . Now the question is how do I keep it from doing it again. 

So I guess the manufacture date is 1941 as you stated, David. I certainly don't think it was for "nefarious purpose", SLK. Most likely it was someone proud of his lathe, or maybe a gift. In any event, I was starting to think it was someone's initials when none of the letters matched any in the key provided by South Bend. I'm a little embarrassed here. Too bad they are not my initials   .


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## SLK001 (Apr 1, 2021)

ShagDog said:


> So I guess the manufacture date is 1941 as you stated, David. I certainly don't think it was for "nefarious purpose", SLK. Most likely it was someone proud of his lathe, or maybe a gift. In any event, I was starting to think it was someone's initials when none of the letters matched any in the key provided by South Bend. I'm a little embarrassed here. Too bad they are not my initials   .



Since your lathe is a war lathe, it was initially owned by a US Government facility.  That means that some government fellow inspected the lathe prior to its shipment to its final destination.  The inspectors stamped their initials onto the lathe, in the area around the serial number.  Initials found on SB lathes include:

AROTUL USA,  DPC 10
DWW, JFP
D.W.W, W.E.F
D.W.W. , F.W.M
D.W.W & J.F.P.  U.S.N. Property
D.W.W. , J.F.P. USA-HEW,  Defense Plant Corporation tags for Boeing Corp
D.W.W.,  US, navy stamp (ANCHOR)
D.W.W., D.R.M, US, navy stamp (ANCHOR)
FWM
JAN
JAN, JOD
JBL
J.B.R
JFP
JFP, DWW
JFP, LOR & Flaming Bomb
LQR
LOR, JAN
LOR, JOD
L.O.R., J.F.N., US, navy stamp (ANCHOR)
LOR, JFP
WEF
WBL,  DETRO DPC T 505
US 47,  J.A.N
Property of USAF 875747

So, as you can see, this J. F. P. inspector fellow got plenty of use out of his initials.


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## SLK001 (Apr 1, 2021)

ShagDog said:


> Thanks. That was easy . Now the question is how do I keep it from doing it again.



Newer arbors for things like drill chucks and centers don't have enough meat at the very end to engage the "knock-out" stub in the tail stock.  What I have done in the past, is build up to end of the arbor will weld metal until it could be ejected.  Crude, I know, but it works and is fairly easy to do.


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## ShagDog (Apr 1, 2021)

Cool information, SLK. The war nature might also explain the stenciling of "NO. 1" on the front leg at the ts end.

Edit: while I was writing the above, you gave me some other good info on preventing the tool getting stuck in the ts. Thanks, SLK.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Apr 1, 2021)

SLK001 said:


> What I have done in the past, is build up to end of the arbor will weld metal until it could be ejected.



Another option is to drill and tap the end, then thread in a set screw. That lets you adjust the point at which the tool gets ejected.


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## ShagDog (Apr 3, 2021)

All your ideas on preventing the stuck live center in the Tail Stock had me go take a closer look at my live centers, and I observed a screw which I loosened a little to get it to lengthen the live center mt, and that was all it took. My drill chucks don't have the same issue because the mt portion is longer.


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## SLK001 (Apr 3, 2021)

ShagDog said:


> My drill chucks don't have the same issue because the mt portion is longer.



There used to be a special arbor that SB sold that would eject.  I've looked around for something comparable, but came up emply.


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## Weldingrod1 (Apr 6, 2021)

The spindle lock widget requires you to remove the back gear cover. You slide it onto the back gear and swing it down; it's designed to be a trapped tightly between the gear and the headstock casting.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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