# Atlas 3996 for sale, thoughts?



## ARC-170 (Dec 14, 2018)

I saw this lathe and I'm thinking about selling the one I just bought and getting this one, but I thought I'd see what you all thought first:







It comes with a KDK tool post and 5 holders.

*SAFETY: *I like that the belts are fully enclosed, for safety reasons. I have small kids and I'm afraid they might get tangled in my current lathe. *This is the main reason I'm looking at getting it.*

QCGB: I also like the QCGB. The change gears for my Craftsman are hard to find and expensive when I do. I realize they are probably still cheaper than this lathe, but the safety thing is more important.

Seller states it's a Model 3996, 110V drive in the cabinet. 12" swing, 54" bed. A little big for me, but it could work.

I's appreciate any thoughts or input. Is the price fair?

Thanks!


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## mmcmdl (Dec 14, 2018)

ARC-170 said:


> I's appreciate any thoughts or input. Is the price fair?



Looks like a clean lathe , and a decent size also . How much was he asking ?


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## ARC-170 (Dec 14, 2018)

Seller is asking $1800.


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## Ulma Doctor (Dec 14, 2018)

the lathe has the disadvantage of flat ways


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## mmcmdl (Dec 14, 2018)

$1800 ? I would pass it by or see if he is negotiable at all .


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## BGHansen (Dec 15, 2018)

My first lathe was the bench top version of the same lathe.  I paid $700 for mine which included a 3-jaw, 4-jaw and steady rest.  Here's a current Craig's List listing in the Pittsburgh area for a comparable 3996 for $750.  Yeah, way too long of a drive for you but gives you some price comparison.  

I use the search engine www.searchtempest.com for eBay and CL listings.  The $1800 asking price seems a bit high, but maybe he'll throw in some more goodies.

Bruce

https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/d/atlaslathe/6771379922.html


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## ARC-170 (Dec 15, 2018)

Just talked with the seller. He used to part out lathes on eBay. This is on a rolling base, has two 3-jaw chucks (Bison knockoffs), and he said he'd throw in a bunch of tooling (boring bars, etc). No steady or follow rest, no 4-jaw chuck. He says it has little backlash and is in very good shape (don't they all). He says he's used it for personal use the last 12 years. He had what he called a low-ball offer of $800.
The 4-jaw chuck I have may fit this one. It's a little big: 63" long by 16" deep. But it has fully covered belts.
He has a few people coming to look at it but if it's still available I may go look at it. If it's not sold, that will mean a lower price, I think.
I can wait.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 15, 2018)

By the way, will this cut metric threads?


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## ARC-170 (Dec 15, 2018)

mmcmdl said:


> $1800 ? I would pass it by or see if he is negotiable at all .



What do you think is fair? This one is nicer than the one linked to above in Pittsburgh. Seller rejected $800 from another seller. Seller told me he could part it out for $3000, but didn't want to do that to this machine since, in his opinion, it was so nice.
The KDK too post and holders are worth something, I think. Maybe $250? He mentioned a bunch of other tooling that could add maybe $100. I'm just guessing based on what I've seen lately. So maybe $1200-1500 for the machine and all the tooling? Let me know if that's too good or to low.


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## wa5cab (Dec 15, 2018)

Over-all, although I wouldn't take this for mine, I think that a reasonable price for a bare 3996 (no accessories) is about $1200 +/-.  Then add a flat $150 for each significant accessory (like spindle chuck, steady rest, QCTP with usual 5 holders, milling attachment, taper attachment, etc.) and $50 for each minor accessory (like carriage stop, dial indicator, TS chuck, live center, pile of cutters, etc.).  

For reference, over the years it was in production (roughly late 1967 to March, 1981), the 101.28990 (Sears version of 3996) listed for $667 to $2299.  As best I can recall, I paid about $2000 in January of 1981 for my 3996, plus about another $2000 by the end of the year for accessories.

The V-bed versus flat bed controversy is usually blown out of proportion.  If the V-bed is hardened, then it matters.  If it isn't, then by itself, it doesn't.  The only issue that an unhardened flat bed has that an unhardened V-bed doesn't is wear on the rear of the rear way.  Otherwise, in exactly the same service they both wear at about the same rate and the wear has the same consequences.  And a re-grind of a V-bed versus a flat bed will normally be more expensive.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 15, 2018)

Robert, why wouldn't you take this for yours? Is is too big, or a bad deal or not the right one for your needs, or something else? Just curious. If this is not a good machine, I'll skip it.

Based on your post, this one could sell for about $1200 + $300 (2 chucks)+$150 (QCTP and holders)+ $100 for misc tooling=$1750. Pretty close to asking price. I'd argue for reducing the price since there is no 4-jaw chuck, steady- or follow-rest.

Thanks for the V-bed info. I wondered what all the fuss was about.


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## mickri (Dec 15, 2018)

Two years ago I paid $1200 for my craftsman 12x36 and it came with every accessory that craftsman offered including a tool post grinder accept for a tapper attachment.  2 4 jaw chucks, 3 3 jaw chucks, 2 face plates, one lantern style tool post, a 4 way tool post holder and a boring bar holder.  Some magnetic bases and dial indicators and more tool bits than I will probably ever use.  There were also several Jacobs chucks and some spare parts.

It will cut the most common metric threads with a 52/44 combo gear in the drive train.  There is a thread on the forum about cutting metric threads through a qcgb on an atlas/craftsman lathe and an article in the downloads section of the forum.

You could also make a cover for the belts on your current lathe.  I was at an estate auction last Saturday where the there was an atlas lathe with a home made cover.  I didn't stay for the auction so I don't know what the lathe sold for.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 15, 2018)

mickri said:


> Two years ago I paid $1200 for my craftsman 12x36 and it came with every accessory that craftsman offered including a tool post grinder accept for a tapper attachment.  2 4 jaw chucks, 3 3 jaw chucks, 2 face plates, one lantern style tool post, a 4 way tool post holder and a boring bar holder.  Some magnetic bases and dial indicators and more tool bits than I will probably ever use.  There were also several Jacobs chucks and some spare parts.
> 
> It will cut the most common metric threads with a 52/44 combo gear in the drive train.  There is a thread on the forum about cutting metric threads through a qcgb on an atlas/craftsman lathe and an article in the downloads section of the forum.
> 
> ...



I thought of making one. Didn't think about a mesh one, though. Thanks for the idea. 

I saw this lathe (link below) on CL. It is the same model (looks like a different year, though) and has a cover. Anyone know if it will for my lathe?

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/tls/d/craftsman-metal-lathe/6770505380.html

He wants $400 firm. I suppose I could part it out. Thoughts anyone?

Thanks for the price info! That seems to point to a lower price for mine. I feel like I'm getting closer to a fair price and getting good bargaining knowledge.


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## mickri (Dec 15, 2018)

I would buy this lathe for the covers and part out the rest.  You might be able use some of the gears as change gears on your current lathe.  It's too bad that the change gears you bought were for a 6" lathe.  Have you contacted the ebay seller for a refund.  If he misrepresented what he was selling you should be able to get a full refund including return shipping.  I would definitely pursue a refund.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 15, 2018)

ARC-170 said:


> Seller rejected $800 from another seller. Seller told me he could part it out for $3000, but didn't want to do that to this machine since, in his opinion, it was so nice.




If he could part it out for $3000 , don't you think he would do it ? I part out Cub Cadets ,and it's not easy money . I'm not sure what the prices ae out there , but in our area , that $1800 would buy you a very nice lathe . I sold the ShopFox a while back , fully tooled for $2100 . Brand new condition . I feel if you waited and kept searching , you could do better . If you are in need of the lathe and can't wait , stick with it and negotiate with him . I just got a 10" SB plopped in my lap for nothing , so the machines are out there .


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## mmcmdl (Dec 15, 2018)

Here is the Shop Fox lathe for $2100 . 

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/sold-woodstock-international-shop-fox-m1112-lathe.51573/


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## ARC-170 (Dec 15, 2018)

mickri said:


> I would buy this lathe for the covers and part out the rest.  You might be able use some of the gears as change gears on your current lathe.  It's too bad that the change gears you bought were for a 6" lathe.  Have you contacted the ebay seller for a refund.  If he misrepresented what he was selling you should be able to get a full refund including return shipping.  I would definitely pursue a refund.



I bought the lathe for $350. It has a few other parts I need. The piece of mind was worth it. I'll have to clean up and paint the parts; they are dirty, but they were sound. It didn't come with much.

I looked at the listing title and it did mention 6" Atlas, so it's my fault. I just relisted them on eBay.


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## mickri (Dec 15, 2018)

Sounds good.  You should be able to get your money out of it by selling off the parts that you don't need.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 16, 2018)

I've noticed over the past 6 months sellers on ebay and Craigslist have started to think that average Atlas lathes are worth $1500-2000, I'm even seeing the 6" models being listed at $1000+, $600+ with issues. 
A year ago they were being listed for half that. I'm still seeing 9 to 12" Logans, Southbends, and Clausings at $900-1500 so I suspect, someone sold an Atlas, probably in great condition with lots of tooling for a price like that and now everybody with a dusty crusty Atlas in the garage thinks it is gold.

The wrong end of the state for you, but this (I'm guessing 10") Atlas has been on my local CL at $1400 for probably 3 months now.

https://mendocino.craigslist.org/tls/d/nice-4ft-bed-atlas-lathe-with/6757364731.html


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## mmcmdl (Dec 16, 2018)

I sold an Atlas a whole lot nicer than that for $400 .  People must think it's gold as you say . ( Most people selling equipment these days couldn't tell you if it was a mill or a lathe )


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## Nogoingback (Dec 16, 2018)

Aaron_W said:


> I've noticed over the past 6 months sellers on ebay and Craigslist have started to think that average Atlas lathes are worth $1500-2000, I'm even seeing the 6" models being listed at $1000+, $600+ with issues.
> A year ago they were being listed for half that. I'm still seeing 9 to 12" Logans, Southbends, and Clausings at $900-1500 so I suspect, someone sold an Atlas, probably in great condition with lots of tooling for a price like that and now everybody with a dusty crusty Atlas in the garage thinks it is gold.
> 
> The wrong end of the state for you, but this (I'm guessing 10") Atlas has been on my local CL at $1400 for probably 3 months now.
> ...




We're getting some of that kind of thing here in the NW: it seems that asking prices have jumped a bit.  Here's one for you guys -
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/tls/d/lathe/6769751179.html

There's a guy trying to get $5000.00 for an 11" Logan around here as well.


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## BGHansen (Dec 16, 2018)

Don't know the market for equipment in CA, but in the Midwest there are plenty of options.  Helps out buyers with plenty of options out there.  I see 12 x 36 Atlas' with a QCGB offered for anywhere between $750 - $3000.  I doubt the $3000 ones sell.  The nice one in the Pittsburgh area for $750 is still available 4 days after the listing opened.  I see 6" Atlas' in our area listed for around $600, but they don't sell at that price.

I usually track auctions and listings for stuff I might be interested in and see what it sells for.  That's the current market price as long as the auction and/or listing was generally available.  What I mean is correctly listed stuff.  I used to collect Erector sets and would search on eBay for spellings like Erecter, Glibert (instead of Gilbert), etc.  Came up with some pretty nice stuff that other guys didn't see because of the misspellings.  

Anyway, given examples of the current market prices, I approach the seller with "I don't mean to insult you, but this is what the current market price is for XXXX.  I'd be an owner at that price".  If they aren't willing to budge, I give them my contact info and cordially walk away.  Maybe part with a statement like, "Thanks for your time.  I hope you can get your asking price for your sake, but if you have a change of heart, please call/email/text me".  Doesn't work every time, but I've been successful.  There are PLENTY of tools/equipment out there, no need to have buyer's remorse if the deal just isn't right.  You've lived without it up until now and can continue on without it.

Bruce

Nashville area - $1000 ATLAS 12 x 36 with milling attachment
https://nashville.craigslist.org/for/d/craftsman-metal-wood-lathe/6728425609.html

Had to post this one in Lafayette, IN.  "Fantastic" lathe.  Note how much aluminum is sticking out of the chuck from an apparent test cut.  Plus the power cords laying over the belts (though probably just from storage).  I think it's "fantastic" that the ~2" round didn't get peeled out of the chuck.
https://tippecanoe.craigslist.org/tls/d/fantastic-metal-lathe/6769026280.html


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## Aaron_W (Dec 16, 2018)

Nogoingback said:


> We're getting some of that kind of thing here in the NW: it seems that asking prices have jumped a bit.  Here's one for you guys -
> https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/tls/d/lathe/6769751179.html
> 
> There's a guy trying to get $5000.00 for an 11" Logan around here as well.



While I know there are some who would pay a lot more for an old American machine, than any import, at these inflated prices they are competing with brand new machines. $5000 would buy a Taiwanese PM 12x36 with 2 axis DRO installed. A really clean example, well set up and provided with lots of tooling that might be a decent comparison, but they usually aren't. 

The one for $3000 looks like an ok lathe, but the included "tooling" looks more like spare parts with a lot of duplicates. Maybe even the old broken parts left over from getting this one to run. Again at that price one could get a new 10x22" and have some money left over for some tooling.


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## Nogoingback (Dec 16, 2018)

BGHansen said:


> Don't know the market for equipment in CA, but in the Midwest there are plenty of options.




You guys in the upper Midwest and Northeast  have it good.  Except for SoCal, there never was much manufacturing on the Left Coast, and in 
the Northwest all most none except for Boeing in Seattle.  Around here it was mostly logging and agriculture.   So there just isn't 
much to choose from, and anything really decent is apparently made of gold.  Atlases are more plentiful so they're usually cheaper, but 
asking prices for anything better in hobbyist sizes have been climbing.   All this seems to be true for other types of equipment as well.
But, I've noticed that a lot of it tends to hang out on CL for long periods of time.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 16, 2018)

Nogoingback said:


> You guys in the upper Midwest and Northeast  have it good.  Except for SoCal, there never was much manufacturing on the Left Coast, and in
> the Northwest all most none except for Boeing in Seattle.  Around here it was mostly logging and agriculture.   So there just isn't
> much to choose from, and anything really decent is apparently made of gold.  Atlases are more plentiful so they're usually cheaper, but
> asking prices for anything better in hobbyist sizes have been climbing.   All this seems to be true for other types of equipment as well.
> But, I've noticed that a lot of it tends to hang out on CL for long periods of time.



The San Francisco Bay Area had a lot of manufacturing, ship yards, automotive and other into the 1960s. Oakland was once known as the Detroit of the West Coast.

You wouldn't know that today looking at what equipment is available.


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## Nogoingback (Dec 16, 2018)

I grew up in the Bay Area, but when I was a kid that kind of stuff was going away, and some of it, like the shipyards were
given a boost during WWII and started winding down right after the war.   My dad worked for Bethlehem and I remember going to one
of their last ship launchings.  I was very young at the time,  so that had to be almost 60 years ago.  You're right, there was
manufacturing around there, but when compared to the scale of manufacturing in the Midwest, there's no comparison. And by the
time I got out of college, Silicon Valley was the big thing, and those companies didn't need a lot of machine tools.


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## jdedmon91 (Dec 16, 2018)

wa5cab said:


> Over-all, although I wouldn't take this for mine, I think that a reasonable price for a bare 3996 (no accessories) is about $1200 +/-. Then add a flat $150 for each significant accessory (like spindle chuck, steady rest, QCTP with usual 5 holders, milling attachment, taper attachment, etc.) and $50 for each minor accessory (like carriage stop, dial indicator, TS chuck, live center, pile of cutters, etc.).
> 
> For reference, over the years it was in production (roughly late 1967 to March, 1981), the 101.28990 (Sears version of 3996) listed for $667 to $2299. As best I can recall, I paid about $2000 in January of 1981 for my 3996, plus about another $2000 by the end of the year for accessories.
> 
> The V-bed versus flat bed controversy is usually blown out of proportion. If the V-bed is hardened, then it matters. If it isn't, then by itself, it doesn't. The only issue that an unhardened flat bed has that an unhardened V-bed doesn't is wear on the rear of the rear way. Otherwise, in exactly the same service they both wear at about the same rate and the wear has the same consequences. And a re-grind of a V-bed versus a flat bed will normally be more expensive.



I too don’t understand the complaint about flat ways, if I could have found an Atlas or Craftsman when I upgraded to a bigger lathe I would have in a heartbeat. Most modern CNC lathes have flat ways and they handle heavy cuts without a problem. I call it the South Bend syndrome, they are so manny SB lathes in home shops that is why I think the prejudice against flat ways.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 16, 2018)

Nogoingback said:


> I grew up in the Bay Area, but when I was a kid that kind of stuff was going away, and some of it, like the shipyards were
> given a boost during WWII and started winding down right after the war.   My dad worked for Bethlehem and I remember going to one
> of their last ship launchings.  I was very young at the time,  so that had to be almost 60 years ago.  You're right, there was
> manufacturing around there, but when compared to the scale of manufacturing in the Midwest, there's no comparison. And by the
> time I got out of college, Silicon Valley was the big thing, and those companies didn't need a lot of machine tools.




It was mostly gone when I was growing up too, I mostly found out through an interest in history. Also while LA and the Bay Area are large, that is nothing compared to a whole region of the country that was heavily industrialized. I would also guess that a lot of shipyard equipment tends to be a bit large for a home shop even if you did find it.

Nice hobby lathe, I'll just tuck this thing in between the washing machine and the lawn mower.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 16, 2018)

Whenever I list anything for sale, I look to see what a new ones costs and list my used one for about half, plus or minus, depending on condition, desirability, rarity, etc. In my mind it's really not worth buying on CL or even Ebay for more than about half of what a new one costs, since there is no returns or warranty. Oh, sure Ebay has that, but you get negative feedback from some PO'd seller. I realize some things increase in value over time. I don't think these lathes are one of them. I think the high prices are due to a few sellers around here (SoCal) asking really high prices. I've talked to a few and they are really not motivated to sell: "I don't really need to sell it, but I don't use it/use it occasionally and thought I'd see what I could get", or they are selling it for a friend who doesn't know jack about machines and probably looked at the other over-priced listings and based his price on that. I've even mentioned what a new ones costs and they don't seem to care. The overpriced ones have sat for weeks! The ones that are priced right are gone in less than a week. The sellers need to post and then monitor what the competition is doing. I realize that might be a big deal for some, but it would help them see that they are asking too much. That said, they might get a sale, so what the heck!


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## Aaron_W (Dec 16, 2018)

That is pretty much my view as well, 50-60% of new for something in very good condition unless I know the seller or it is a particularly expensive item where 70-75% still saves at least several hundred dollars and even then I'd have to feel really good about it.

Cheaper items I may not even go 50%. I bought one of those Harbor Freight 4x6 bandsaws last year, they are like $200 new with the coupon. I saw some people trying to sell them for $100-150, and that just wasn't enough savings to make it worth the risk of issues. I might have gone for one nearby for $50-75.

I think a lot of sellers have trouble understanding that what someone lists on ebay is often a lot different than what they actually get for it. I think there are also a lot of sellers just trolling for someone with deep pockets and lacking the patience to look for a good deal.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 16, 2018)

This was my process when I was looking at a lathe:

I looked at Grizzly, Jet, Little Machine Shop (LMS), Precision Mathews (PM) and Amazon. The biggest Harbor Freight machine was 8x12, but for comparison it was about $1000, less 20% plus about $100 for shipping and handling.

Grizzly had the following:
8x16: $1340 (prices are with shipping, but NO sales tax)
9x19: $ $1365
10x22: $1669-$2168
11x26: $1968
12X24: $3594
12x36: $3794

PM:
10x22: $2300
12x28: $3500

Jet:
13x40: $6839
12x36: $8399

A quick look at Amazon:
Baileigh 10x22: $2183. This brand comes up a lot on Amazon.
Jet 9x20: $3165 (shipping incl)
Most of what else came up was smaller.

LMS has small machines, too small for our comparison purposes here, but a 7x14 can be had for $730. This gives an idea of a price for a size.

If sellers are doing something similar, they are going to use the highest prices for setting a price. But, if I'm looking on CL, I'm looking for a deal; if I can buy a new lathe for less than $2000 why bother with CL. The PM and Jet seem more aimed for the pros than the home hobbyist. So I'm probably going to use the Grizzly prices for comparison. The company has a good reputation and has parts and accessories. But, the sellers are going to use the higher prices. Depending on the machine that might be a fair comparison.

I decided I would be willing to pay around half, plus or minus, of new for a used lathe. If I get no returns, no warranty, no idea what I'm getting until I get it home and an old machine that I will have to spend time looking for parts for, it's only worth the hassle if I can get a good deal and that seems like about half of the price of a new one. I'm sure others will disagree, but it's worked really well for me so far when buying and selling on CL.

So I figured I "should" be able to get a decent used lathe for around $800 to $1,000, plus or minus. I didn't mind something that needed some work or that was missing pieces. 

For example here are a few sales in my area:
10x24 Samson $2250. It's been listed for about a month. I'm pretty sure this is the same seller who wants almost $1500 for a RF-30 clone mill/drill.
14x40 Enco clone (I think) $4500.
I think by now you can see the problem. The sellers are thinking $2000 and up and I'm thinking less than $1000. Even meeting in the middle at $1500 is too much; I can get a new one for another $500 or so. Not chump change, but it's new, with a warranty, customer service and parts and available accessories. And, besides, in my opinion, CL is for selling and getting deals, not some alternative marketplace for wannabe retailers.
Unless the extra 1" of swing is something special I know nothing about, I would argue that the price difference between the two sizes shouldn't be much more for a used machine.

Anybody have any insight as to why there is such a jump from 11" swing to 12" swing? Is that the point at which the bed needs to be built differently to accommodate the larger forces, or something else?

What I've heard when I call these people and talk to them is that "it's a nice machine and worth the price," often based on a machinist friend who told them what it was supposedly worth or their extensive experience parting them out on Ebay. Some say they are machinists and know the worth. They list all the new stuff that was replaced, or tell me they only took light cuts on brass and aluminum once a month, or something along those lines. The other thing I hear is some variation of they really don't want to sell it but will if they get asking price.

I could be wrong about all of this, though. Let me know if I'm missing something.

At the end of the day, I suppose it's worth what someone wants to pay.


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## jdedmon91 (Dec 17, 2018)

ARC-170 said:


> This was my process when I was looking at a lathe:
> 
> I looked at Grizzly, Jet, Little Machine Shop (LMS), Precision Mathews (PM) and Amazon. The biggest Harbor Freight machine was 8x12, but for comparison it was about $1000, less 20% plus about $100 for shipping and handling.
> 
> ...



I’ve noticed the same thing on FB market place. Besides lathes the other thing is tool chests. There are lots of over 3k used Snap on, MAC type tool chests on these markets. 90% of the buyers are home based hobby guys who want more tool storage. Yes the new ones are expensive but why do I need a 3k box to hold my hand tools when my 1k new HF, Husky, Cobalt, or Craftsman will work for me? 

I have a G0750G Grizzly as my lathe. At the time I was looking the only thing that came up was one SB 2 hours away and a few large Craftsman (Atlas) again was a 2 to 3 hour drive. The price was 2/3 of what I paid for my Grizzly. My lathe was shipped to me and all I had to do was mount it up on the base and set it up. I did have a problem with the lathe early on and Grizzly actually had a tech call me and walk me through troubleshooting and was a big help. Point is while these used lathes are out there the pricing is a bit high considering the lack of knowledge of the machine. 

50% is a good starting point. Unless you’re getting a machine that has a traceable history. My mill was like that. It spent its life in CLT airport in a maintenance shop, was destined for sale at scrap price, the gentleman I purchased it from traded work he was doing for the mill, brought it to his shop checked it out and fixed a couple of minor things and put it on CL. Compared to buddies Bridgeport’s my mill is a monster. I couldn’t be happier. 


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## mmcmdl (Dec 17, 2018)

Disagree on the boxes . I can put 500lbs of tools in any drawer of my Vidmar cabinets . That would flip my HF boxes face over if the drawers didn't collapse first . I agree , 99% of the population doesn't need " professional boxes " . They have limited tools and don't need the lb per in capacity . On the other hand , if I walk into a shop and see HF boxes , it says a lot to me . Same as the name on the tools , depends on what your reason is or need for the tools . JMO .

Edit . I have nothing against HF boxes , I own 4 of them . I sold 5 complete Kennedy roll arounds with middle and top boxes over the past 2 years while down sizing , and kept the HF boxes because they suited my needs better .


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## jdedmon91 (Dec 17, 2018)

mmcmdl said:


> Disagree on the boxes . I can put 500lbs of tools in any drawer of my Vidmar cabinets . That would flip my HF boxes face over if the drawers didn't collapse first . I agree , 99% of the population doesn't need " professional boxes " . They have limited tools and don't need the lb per in capacity . On the other hand , if I walk into a shop and see HF boxes , it says a lot to me . Same as the name on the tools , depends on what your reason is or need for the tools . JMO .
> 
> Edit . I have nothing against HF boxes , I own 4 of them . I sold 5 complete Kennedy roll arounds with middle and top boxes over the past 2 years while down sizing , and kept the HF boxes because they suited my needs better .



Agreed I said many times if I was a professional mechanic I’d use a Lista or Vidmar cabinet instead of the tool truck boxes. I’d build a frame and put casters underneath IHMO either of the two is better than any tool truck box. 

I did some automotive work as a hobby years ago. My hand tools are mostly old Craftsman. But I have no qualms about using HF tools for light or one time use. A professional needs tools he can rely on but there are options beside the tool truck. 

Personally I needed a larger hand tool box that would fit in one place in my shop. The HF box I have fits my needs. Where I spent my 40 year career didn’t want you to use your tools, I had some machinist tools in a Craftsman machinist chest (just like a Kennedy probably mad by them way back then). So when my home shop started I had that’s what I started with 

My machinist box today is a knockoff wooden top, sitting on an Craftsman riser, settling a Husky roll around. I repurposed the Craftsman and Husky boxes from my tool box arrangement before. The bottom of the old chest is under my workbench for more storage. 

It works for me. Like automobiles, tools, machines, and most other things we all find what we make work and feel good about using. In my home shop its function first looks later. Must be the old farmer mentality. 


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## Aaron_W (Dec 17, 2018)

Jeff, your logic on this is quite similar to mine. Due to shop space and budget limitations I set the PM 10x22 or Grizzly 11x26 as my ultimate goal, which set my used budget at about $1200. At $1200 I was at about the cost a new 9x19 which was about as small as I wanted to go, and much more than $1200 I was getting into rock throwing range for the 10x22 or 11x26. Of course the further away from $1200 (going down) the better a used machine, even one with some issues looked.


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## jdedmon91 (Dec 20, 2018)

Aaron_W said:


> Jeff, your logic on this is quite similar to mine. Due to shop space and budget limitations I set the PM 10x22 or Grizzly 11x26 as my ultimate goal, which set my used budget at about $1200. At $1200 I was at about the cost a new 9x19 which was about as small as I wanted to go, and much more than $1200 I was getting into rock throwing range for the 10x22 or 11x26. Of course the further away from $1200 (going down) the better a used machine, even one with some issues looked.



I seen your point. The problem here in Charlotte area that size lathe is closer to 2k 


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## Aaron_W (Dec 20, 2018)

jdedmon91 said:


> I seen your point. The problem here in Charlotte area that size lathe is closer to 2k
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Right and at $2000 a new import machine looks pretty good compared to a 50 year old machine with 50 years of wear, 50 years of possible abuse / neglect, no service, limited parts and no warranty.


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## projectnut (Dec 20, 2018)

Keep in mind the first of these lathes were built in 1957 and the last were built in 1981.  That makes it a minimum of 37 years old, or possibly as old as 61 years.  Looking through the "Sold" listings on eBay it appears the average price has been around $1,200.00.  There are still some out there for an asking price of $3,000.00, but as Bruce mentioned they may never sell.  If you're willing to spend anywhere near the $3,000.00 mark there are far better lathes to be had.  You can buy older professional grade American Iron or fairly new Chinesium iron.

If the seller really believes he can get that kind of money for it he's relying on either uneducated buyers, or is attempting to hold up someone who needs a part, and he's the only one in the world that has it.  

As a side note I've never paid that kind of money for any of the machines in my shop.  The most expensive of the lot was a Sheldon lathe that had been rebuilt including grinding the ways, and that came with several chucks (4), a collet system, a follow rest, steady rest, QCTP, several drill chucks, dead and live centers, and other assorted tooling.

Be patient.  You'll find good machinery for a much more reasonable price.


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## wa5cab (Dec 20, 2018)

As I wrote earlier, I think a fair price for a 3995 (12x24 cabinet) or 3996 (12x36) bare lathe (as it originally came from the factory) is around $1200.  That's ballpark about half what it sold for new and about 1/3 to 1/4 of what it would sell for new today.  When I said that I wouldn't take that for mine, I merely meant that I've no desire nor need to sell mine.  As with the Logan, and not with the Clausing or AFAIK the smaller SB's, new parts availability is still pretty good, although the prices are today's prices, not 1981's and for sure not 1957's.  Tech support is still available.  Parts and owners manuals are widely available although quality varies from junk to "good as new".  Availability of "The Manual of Lathe Operation" is good, although there were 33 editions published and you need to match your lathe version to the MOLO version.  

However, if you already know that your first dozen jobs are going to need a spindle bore larger than 3/4", you need to forget about the four makes that I've mentioned, beef up your bank account, and look elsewhere.


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## jdedmon91 (Dec 20, 2018)

Aaron_W said:


> Right and at $2000 a new import machine looks pretty good compared to a 50 year old machine with 50 years of wear, 50 years of possible abuse / neglect, no service, limited parts and no warranty.



That is why I went with a new Grizzly 4 years ago. Now I did lucky on the mill but it still was more expensive than one in New England. But for this area it was reasonable 


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## mmcmdl (May 24, 2019)

This looks like the Atlas lathe I'll be acquiring .


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