# Help Me Differentiate



## Lowlyslows (Dec 30, 2018)

Hey guys,

I posted this earlier on the forum but I think I put it in the wrong spot...

New here and new to machining. Well, I did do some machining as a mechanic doing brake rotors and drums but that was just cleaning up the surface. I plan to make parts for my automotive hobbies and other future stuff.

I am looking at 2 lathe machines, one from Grizzly and one from the Little Machine Shop (LMS).

Grizzly lathe: G0602Z 

LMS lathe: 3540 

I know that the Grizzly is slightly bigger and comes with a DRO setup but my lack of experience is getting the best of me. I am focusing on the brushless motor (assuming the brushless motor is better than the TEFC motor that comes on the Grizzly) that comes with the LMS and am having a hard time distinguishing between the two as to which one is the better buy. I have also never purchased anything from LMS or Grizzly and do not know how their customer service is. It does seem like LMS has done a better job making it easier to get everything you need (kits).

Anyway, if someone could help shed some light on two units for me that would be great. I have spent the past couple of weeks researching nomenclature and features but am not quite there, yet. Again, very new to the hobby.

Thanks


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## westerner (Dec 30, 2018)

Welcome! I have no experience with either machine, but I do have a little experience with your dilemma. Consider this fair warning- 
This hobby can be very hard on your disposable income, and your free time! It can, also, be very good for your brain, and your peace of mind. 
Have fun, and good luck! Many, many folks here have been where you are,and are a huge wealth of information across many diverse skills. They have been a great help to me, for sure. All you have to do is ask!


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## Duke (Dec 31, 2018)

Hi!

I also do not have any experience with these machines, but looking at the photos here are two quick observations:


*Size:*

Like you mentioned, the grizzly is quite a bit bigger: to get an idea compare the chucks. The grizzly comes with a 5"  3 jaw while the LMS has a 4" 3 jaw chuck.

Compare the weights as well: 100KG for the LMS vs 150KG for the Grizzly.

The grizzly obviously has more capacity for bigger projects. Depends on what you want to do.


*Speed control and tailstock:*

The grizzly lathe has a geared head:  the two knobs with the black arrows are used to switch its gears between the different speeds. 150, 300, 560, 720, 1200, 2400 RPM  thus 6 Speeds in total.

The LMS model has variable speed - you turn the silver speed control to any speed you require.

The Grizzly lathe looks like it uses a nut to fix the tailstock in place while the LMS one has a cam lock.  A cam lock makes it a lot quicker to fix the tailstock in place since it is just a lever you push up or down in stead of having to tighten a nut.

For facing and parting operations the power cross feed on the LMS is also a nice feature.



Personally I am leaning towards the LMS one.


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## GrayTech (Dec 31, 2018)

Welcome. As Duke says above, the LMS has more possibilities with the speed adjustment and power crossfeed where the Grizzly has greater work holding capacity. For me it would depend on what size stuff I intended to cut with it and how I intended to cut it.

Personally I went with a vintage machine which I had to do some work on, but I am Very happy with it's rigidity and capacity for what I do with it, and the cost allowed for a Lot of extra tooling and upgrades.

Compliments of the season to you and yours. 

Sent from my H3123 using Tapatalk


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## RJSakowski (Dec 31, 2018)

Lowlyslows said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I posted this earlier on the forum but I think I put it in the wrong spot...
> 
> ...


I have the 602.  No experience with the LMS lathe buyt a few observations.  The 602 has a 1" spindle bore vs. .8" for the LMS.  It has the 10" (actually about 9.9") capacity with 22" vs. 20" center to center.  It has a 4MT headstock taper and 3MT tailstock taper vs. 3MT and 2MT for the LMS.  The cross feed travel of the 602 is 7" vs 3.9", the compound travel is 3.4" vs. 2.8" and the compound ways on the 602 are considerably longer which means increased rigidity and less free play.  All of these increases will be appreciated at some point in working with the lathe.

Additionally, the 602 comes with 4 jaw chuck, faceplate, follower rest and steady rest in the package whereas for the LMS machine, these are purchased accessories.  Grizzly support has always been great and they have had any replacement parts in stock (I have multiple Grizzly machines).

My 602 has had some issues.  A set screw on the cross feed nut was missing.  Grizzly sent one immediately.  The drive belt was not properly adjusted, making it hard to change the belt.  Grizzly sent two slightly larger belts.  There was an improperly assembled key on the lead screw input shaft which caused a cracked bushing.  The key for the tailstock consisted of a set screw, resulting in point contact which will cause a burr in the tailstock keyway under a heavy drilling load and subsequent binding.  I replaced the setscrew with a pin, which eliminated that problem.  The threading dial was improperly made which could cause being  a thread off on the lead screw engagement.  I made a new threading dial which solved that problem.  I also changed the compound clamp from the 2 bolt OEM clamp to a 6 bolt clamp which greatly increases the rigidity.  A commercially available clamp based on my design can be purchased for around $130.  I added Yurei's Touch DRO on the x and z axis and the tailstock as well as a carriage stop and spindle work stop.

In addition, I added a reversing tumbler to the change gear set which permits easy shifting of the lead screw thru forward/neutral/reverse.  I also modified the drive belt tensioning to make belt changing easier.  The 602 uses step pulleys and an intermediate pulley to achieve its speed range of 150 to 2400 rpm.  Although it is more cumbersome than a VFD, I like the fact that the pulley option gives you the torque multiplication along with the speed reduction.  On its lowest speed, the torque is almost 12 x the native motor torque.   I'm not familiar with the brushless DC motor torque but I doubt that it will even come close to that value at 150 rpm.

On the plus side for the LMS, it has both power longitudinal and cross feed.  It has the option of reversing the change gear train for left hand threads, although slightly less convenient that a reversing tumbler.  It does not have a thread dial and if it did, it would be for metric threads only due to the metric lead screw.  This requires  somewhat more time when threading  but is not a show stopper.  The spindle mounting appears to be via three bolts as opposed to the threaded spindle on 602.  This is good with regard to being able to reverse the spindle.  The 602 has two spindle locks which permit safe reversing of the spindle.  I'm not sure  how available backing plate for the LMS would be but it should be easier to make your own, if needed.  The 602 uses a 1.75"- 8 tpi spindle thread which isn't common but I obtained a replacement one from Grizzly for mounting a collet chuck at a very reasonable cost.

There is a comparable range in the available threads on the two machines.  Although Grizzly only lists 33 inch thread options, there are actually 53 with the included change gears. 

Overall, I have been satisfied with the value given by the 602.  There have been some dificiencies but generally, it has been a solid machine.  Most of the modifications thatI have made have been documented on this forum.


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## RJSakowski (Dec 31, 2018)

deleted.  I hit the wrong button and posted in error


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## Aaron_W (Dec 31, 2018)

If you are considering a 10x22 you might also want to consider the PM 1022. It adds a power cross feed which seems to be the only advantage that the LMS machine has over the Grizzly. It also includes a Quick Change Tool Post which is an additional purchase for the other two (LMS offers a decent one for $175). 

The base model PM is only $150 more than the LMS machine. For $100 beyond that you can get the 10x30 which adds 8" to your available working length.

https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1022v-pm-1030v/




I've purchased tooling from LMS and have been happy with their service, but their machines are quite expensive. They add features to similar machines to increase the performance but this often puts the price of a small machine well above the cost of a machine a class or two higher in size. 

The LMS 3540 is essentially a souped up Grizzly G4000 9x19 lathe ($1250) adding some features like the power cross feed and using a larger 1-1/3hp motor over the Grizzly's 3/4hp. This is probably very nice for somebody with a limited space who doesn't want to make their own modifications. 

If you have the space for it a 10x22 or 10x30 is going to be a more capable machine with more room to grow. 


A plus to to an 8x16 or 9x20 machine (LMS included) is the weight is around 200lbs so it can be moved by 2 average strength people without special equipment. Most of the 10x22 machines are in the 350lb range and moving these begins to require some equipment or two above average strength people and they can be much more difficult to move if stairs are involved.


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## tq60 (Dec 31, 2018)

The mechanical speed control far better than electronic simply due to torque amplification in the gear reduction.

We prefer a VFD connected to a multi speed via gear or belt to allow greater speed variation while still allowing torque. 

We can get good RPM as well as MPR...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Lowlyslows (Jan 1, 2019)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I decided to go with the PM-1022 unit!

Question, how are you guys mounting the units? I saw a guy put a unit on top of a tool chest which seems like a great idea as long as you level the tool chest up and off the floor. It also adds storage for everything related to to machining.

Thanks again!


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