# My First Lathe - HF 9" x 20"



## wachuko

Starting a thread in the correct section after buying my first lathe!!  Thank you all for your feedback on the initial thread in the General Section.

Purchased on September 14, 2021

It is a Central Machinery (Harbor Freight) 9" x 20" geared head belt driven, bench lathe.  Built in September, 2006.







Paid 500.00 for it with what you see in the photos (Craftsman bench included as well).















Manuals and original purchase receipt included...  There was also a printed manual for the Grizzly G4000 (better documentation).











And this, that I am searching to see what it is for...














Everything looks to be in working order and in good condition.  I did clean it, took apart the compound, checked the gibs, and cleaned and oiled everything.






Photo looking at the gears for the feed rate...






And a recent photo...


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## wachuko

I have a Precision Matthews lathe coming in (I am guessing here) January... Being new to all this, I wanted to practice with something more inexpensive... Finding this lathe, at this price, was great for what I wanted.  Also keeps me busy and not thinking about when the PM lathe is arriving... hehehe

The first thing I managed to do was break the half nut lever... made out of pot metal... it just crumbled when I tried to engage the half nut... This is part number P4000711 in the Grizzly G4000 and it is currently on backorder.  If I can't get to the circlip that holds it in place, I will have to disassemble that area to get to it for removal.


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## Steve-F

Well done! That plate "might" be for mounting a Ball Turning device on it, less the post and the tool itself....best guess


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## wachuko

Steve-F said:


> Well done! That plate "might" be for mounting a Ball Turning device on it, less the post and the tool itself....best guess



Yes, maybe that is what is for... I could not find anything in the included parts/accessories, that would bolt to it.  Took it apart, got it all cleaned and back together... will see what it is good for.


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## wachuko

I do not want to invest much on this... but I do want a quick change tool post for it...  Let me do a quick search on what size is the correct one for it.


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## wachuko

Have not had it for a day... and all I was doing last night was taking it apart, cleaning, setting the gibs, oiling it... Making sure everything was working smoothly.  Man!! and I already want a powered cross slide


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## Aukai

I'm glad I had a "practice" lathe before my 1340, the only issue was I got comfortable with the controls, and had to get new muscle memory for the 1340 controls.


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## wachuko

Aukai said:


> I'm glad I had a "practice" lathe before my 1340, the only issue was I got comfortable with the controls, and had to get new muscle memory for the 1340 controls.



I want to learn and shake off the fear of using a lathe... I have to admit that I was intimidated by starting with that 12x36...  This smaller lathe will ease the way... 

Got an AXA Wedge Type Quick Change Tool Post Set 250-111 from Amazon... should be here tomorrow... I think that will be it in terms of buying stuff for it... Anything else, I will give it a try making it myself...


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## Aukai

My first lathe sat for 2 years after break in running, I could not stand next to it comfortably, now I'm OK...


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## Bi11Hudson

My machine (the small one) is a Grizzly G-1550. Identical to your's with a 1-1/2X8 spindle nose. A big issue is the drive belts. I use Dixie Bearing as a source, they were all over the country when I was in the service. 5M710 or 5M730, depending on where/when it was built. You need at least one spare, two or three would be better. They're cheap enough and quite useful. . . I ended up acquiring an assortment, the 5M series pulleys are easy to make with a threading tool at a 60 deg V.

I eventually went with an Atlas/Craftsman 12X36 because I was cutting down brake disks to make railroad wheels. (7-1/2 Ga) The Griz was too small to swing the rotors. Other than a full Norton threading gear box and the larger swing, the Griz actually fits what I do better. One adaptation I made was a planetary gear head to fit the power end of the spindle. The ~3:1 gear ratio gives me ~40 RPM on the chuck. My web site is down, the host changed software and many(most) of my pages didn't survive. The article is posted in several locations, I lost the links in a crash a couple-three years back. (My last stroke(6) left my mind a little fuzzy, I couldn't rebuild the site) The only parts acquired were from an old (GM?) automatic transmission.

The HF version is a little more rough than the Grizzly, but makes a very good machine in itself once tuned. Being used, your's may have the tuning done. The only advantages to a larger machine is the larger swing and a couple of powered features. But for smaller work it actually is easier to use. There are a couple of ZAMAK fittings that you would do well to replace with steel or brass. ZAMAK is sensitive to an industrial solvent that still shows up occasionally. CRC Brake Clean being most likely. The base chemical has been outlawed in the States, but derivitives are still used in some applications. Making the threading lever isn't that hard.

.


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## wachuko

Bi11Hudson said:


> My machine (the small one) is a Grizzly G-1550. Identical to your's with a 1-1/2X8 spindle nose. A big issue is the drive belts. I use Dixie Bearing as a source, they were all over the country when I was in the service. 5M710 or 5M730, depending on where/when it was built. You need at least one spare, two or three would be better. They're cheap enough and quite useful. . . I ended up acquiring an assortment, the 5M series pulleys are easy to make with a threading tool at a 60 deg V.
> 
> I eventually went with an Atlas/Craftsman 12X36 because I was cutting down brake disks to make railroad wheels. (7-1/2 Ga) The Griz was too small to swing the rotors. Other than a full Norton threading gear box and the larger swing, the Griz actually fits what I do better. One adaptation I made was a planetary gear head to fit the power end of the spindle. The ~3:1 gear ratio gives me ~40 RPM on the chuck. My web site is down, the host changed software and many(most) of my pages didn't survive. The article is posted in several locations, I lost the links in a crash a couple-three years back. (My last stroke(6) left my mind a little fuzzy, I couldn't rebuild the site) The only parts acquired were from an old (GM?) automatic transmission.
> 
> The HF version is a little more rough than the Grizzly, but makes a very good machine in itself once tuned. Being used, your's may have the tuning done. The only advantages to a larger machine is the larger swing and a couple of powered features. But for smaller work it actually is easier to use. There are a couple of ZAMAK fittings that you would do well to replace with steel or brass. ZAMAK is sensitive to an industrial solvent that still shows up occasionally. CRC Brake Clean being most likely. The base chemical has been outlawed in the States, but derivitives are still used in some applications. Making the threading lever isn't that hard.
> 
> .



Thank you for the suggestions.  Sorry to read about the health issues, but happy to have you here contributing to us newbies in this field.

On the belts, it did come with an extra one. Of the thin ones. The 5M730.







I will get a couple more of both.

On the lever, yes, I will remove it and see if I can give it a go in making a replacement.  Thanks!


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## Bi11Hudson

As a note, the 5M series belts, while "thin", are surprisingly strong. The 5M is for the 5mm wide back. It is a Gates product and should be widely available.

.


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## wachuko

Okay, glad you mentioned it... there are then three belts...

5M710 and 5M730 for the different pulley combinations...  these I am seeing them anywhere from $14.00-20.00 each... Grizzly has them for a lot more... for example, they are asking 34.50 (plus shipping) for the 5M730

Then there is the tooth belt 160 x L050 80T that is used for the motor drive... Grizzly has this one for 16.00


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## Steve-F

I have another source but my notes are work and very reasonable and ships for $4 , I will send you a link tomorrow am


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## Steve-F

My 66 year old brain just remembered:<)    https://beltpalace.com/


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## Aaron_W

I paid less for my Enco, but you got a better deal.

AXA is the preferred size for these lathes, although OXA will also fit.

Not sure on your mystery accessory, but many people make a solid base to replace the compound when added rigidity is needed. This may have been one persons solution. The idea that it might be part of a radius cutter attachment also seems reasonable to me.

These lathes have their drawbacks, no reverse,  no back gear, no power cross feed but I agree with Bill for a small inexpensive lathe they are a good option.

These lathes are popular and there are a ton of modifications done to them. There is information out there for adding electronic lead screws, tumble revrse, gear reduction, adapting to a larger v belt etc. This was actually one of the reasons I bought mine, I thought it could be fun to tinker with.

I do have a safety tip for you, the belt change lever is not a clutch. Do not engage it while running or you are very likely to break the drive belt.


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## C-Bag

wachuko said:


> I have a Precision Matthews lathe coming in (I am guessing here) January... Being new to all this, I wanted to practice with something more inexpensive... Finding this lathe, at this price, was great for what I wanted.  Also keeps me busy and not thinking about when the PM lathe is arriving... hehehe
> 
> The first thing I managed to do was break the half nut lever... made out of pot metal... it just crumbled when I tried to engage the half nut... This is part number P4000711 in the Grizzly G4000 and it is currently on backorder.  If I can't get to the circlip that holds it in place, I will have to disassemble that area to get to it for removal.
> 
> View attachment 378560
> 
> View attachment 378561
> 
> 
> View attachment 378562


I noticed the apron feed lever was up in the pic of the broken half nut lever. There is a lockout so you can't engage both of them at the same time.


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## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> I paid less for my Enco, but you got a better deal.
> 
> AXA is the preferred size for these lathes, although OXA will also fit.
> 
> Not sure on your mystery accessory, but many people make a solid base to replace the compound when added rigidity is needed. This may have been one persons solution. The idea that it might be part of a radius cutter attachment also seems reasonable to me.
> 
> These lathes have their drawbacks, no reverse,  no back gear, no power cross feed but I agree with Bill for a small inexpensive lathe they are a good option.
> 
> These lathes are popular and there are a ton of modifications done to them. There is information out there for adding electronic lead screws, tumble revrse, gear reduction, adapting to a larger v belt etc. This was actually one of the reasons I bought mine, I thought it could be fun to tinker with.
> 
> I do have a safety tip for you, the belt change lever is not a clutch. Do not engage it while running or you are very likely to break the drive belt.


When you say no reverse... on what?  It does have a direction of Forward and Reverse in the top knob...???

On the safety tip.  Thank you for calling that out... this label on the cover was confusing the heck out of me...


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## wachuko

C-Bag said:


> I noticed the apron feed lever was up in the pic of the broken half nut lever. There is a lockout so you can't engage both of them at the same time.



Yes.  I knew that before I picked up the lathe so I was careful not to try to engage both at the same time.  The knob tab was very soft...  The lathe had been sitting for a year without use, everything needed cleaning and oiling... I should have done that before trying to engage every lever... 

I have some aluminum stock... will see if the design is not too complicated for me to reproduce in aluminum...


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## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> When you say no reverse... on what?  It does have a direction of Forward and Reverse in the top knob...???
> 
> On the safety tip.  Thank you for calling that out... this label on the cover was confusing the heck out of me...
> 
> View attachment 378657



Yep big sticker, but apparently some still think they can engage and disengage while running leading to short belt life.


It has no spindle reverse, not really a big deal since it is a threaded spindle, but it often is brought up as a weakness. 
Since we are discussing the spindle there is a retention clip and screw on the spindle which needs to be removed before you can  remove the chuck.


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## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> Yep big sticker, but apparently some still think they can engage and disengage while running leading to short belt life.
> 
> 
> It has no spindle reverse, not really a big deal since it is a threaded spindle, but it often is brought up as a weakness.
> Since we are discussing the spindle there is a retention clip and screw on the spindle which needs to be removed before you can  remove the chuck.



But that was my confusion... moving lever towards me would release the tension on the belt.  That was why I was scratching my head.  Unless I have the tensioner around the belt, setup incorrectly...












And  to keep asking, but what is the reverse switch for then?  It does have reverse... The chuck switches direction... What am I not understanding??






Photos of the retention clip.  Checked


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## KevinM

My lathe is identical to yours.  I have always started the motor with the lever toward me and then move the lever away from me to get things going.  I am using the original belt that is 30 years old.


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## wachuko

KevinM said:


> My lathe is identical to yours.  I have always started the motor with the lever toward me and then move the lever away from me to get things going.  I am using the original belt that is 30 years old.



Do you use a different belt when switching from using pulley B and C (5m730) versus using C and A (5m710)?

I have not try moving it, but seen videos where folks find the belt too loose when using 5m730 between C and A pulleys...


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## KevinM

wachuko said:


> Do you use a different belt when switching from using pulley B and C (5m730) versus using C and A (5m710)?
> 
> I have not try moving it, but seen videos where folks find the belt too loose when using 5m730 between C and A pulleys...


Same belt.


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## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> But that was my confusion... moving lever towards me would release the tension on the belt.  That was why I was scratching my head.  Unless I have the tensioner around the belt, setup incorrectly...
> 
> View attachment 378662
> 
> 
> View attachment 378663
> 
> 
> And  to keep asking, but what is the reverse switch for then?  It does have reverse... The chuck switches direction... What am I not understanding??
> 
> View attachment 378664
> 
> 
> Photos of the retention clip.  Checked
> 
> View attachment 378660
> 
> 
> View attachment 378661



Interesting, it sounds like you have a reversible motor then, I wonder if this was done on later machines or the prior owner changed the motor.. Mine has a 3 way switch but the motor turns the same direction regardless of which way the switch is turned. The lack of a reverse is often brought up as a con with these lathes and the larger 10x22 cousin.

I discovered the retention clip the stupid way, luckily I stopped and made a more thorough inspection when the chuck would only loosen a turn instead of going to brute force. I have not encountered a clip like that on any other threaded spindle lathe.

As far as the lever it is recommended that you apply / release tension with the motor stopped to reduce stress on the belt whether that is towards you or away. I'm 200 miles from home so kind of hard for me to go check mine to see which way applies tension.



KevinM said:


> My lathe is identical to yours.  I have always started the motor with the lever toward me and then move the lever away from me to get things going.  I am using the original belt that is 30 years old.



When I asked about this in the 9x20 group several had first hand experience with snapping belts if the belt wasn't engaged before starting the motor. The manual and warning sticker say not to change tension while the lathe is running. Maybe you got lucky or are just less ham handed than some owners. I don't see any benefit to engaging the belt while running vs when the motor is off.


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## KevinM

Aaron_W said:


> Interesting, it sounds like you have a reversible motor then, I wonder if this was done on later machines or the prior owner changed the motor.. Mine has a 3 way switch but the motor turns the same direction regardless of which way the switch is turned. The lack of a reverse is often brought up as a con with these lathes and the larger 10x22 cousin.
> 
> I discovered the retention clip the stupid way, luckily I stopped and made a more thorough inspection when the chuck would only loosen a turn instead of going to brute force. I have not encountered a clip like that on any other threaded spindle lathe.
> 
> As far as the lever it is recommended that you apply / release tension with the motor stopped to reduce stress on the belt whether that is towards you or away. I'm 200 miles from home so kind of hard for me to go check mine to see which way applies tension.
> 
> 
> 
> When I asked about this in the 9x20 group several had first hand experience with snapping belts if the belt wasn't engaged before starting the motor. The manual and warning sticker say not to change tension while the lathe is running. Maybe you got lucky or are just less ham handed than some owners. I don't see any benefit to engaging the belt while running vs when the motor is off.


The sticker says that you should have the lever toward you (tension off) before starting.


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## Aaron_W

KevinM said:


> The sticker says that you should have the lever toward you (tension off) before starting.
> 
> View attachment 378673



When I get home I'm going to have to read my sticker again, maybe a case of seeing what I think it says instead of what it actually says.


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## Bi11Hudson

*Two items:

First:* The intent of the instructions is to start the motor with the belt released. It probably has to do with a weak starting winding, cap, et al. I have started mine without releasing the belt for 20 years or more. I have destroyed the belt acouple of times, but with my homade pulleys, I attribute that as much to poor workmanship as wear. Keeping in mind that a belt will take a "set" if left tight during occasional use, it might be advisable to release the belt when not being used. Your photo of the belt routing is correct, BTW. Mine uses only one belt for both ranges. A matter of specific pulley sizes and motor mounting.

*Second*: There are occasions where reversing the lead screw has advantages. In "normal" use, one makes a cut from RIGHT to LEFT. If you desired to cut LEFT to RIGHT, you would need to do it by hand. An example would be dressing the left side of a part. Or, more significantly, cutting a LEFT HAND thread. The stock machine, as delivered, cannot to this. There are many articles on the web about making a "reverse tumbler". The only one that comes to my slim mind is a Steve Bedaire. Mine is built to a slim profile to provide clearance for the home brew planetary gear head. Most tumblers are thicker.

Reversing the motor has its' own purpose, not the least is so you can leave the threading engaged during multiple passes on *metric* gears. The lead screw on *most* imports is 16TPI. When doing metric threads, the threading gears *must* remain connected so that multiple passes remain in registration. A whole 'nuther subject, the rabbit hole gets deeper and deeper.

The "rabbit hole" is very deep, a novice machinist will spend more time asking questions than producing. This board is an excellent source of answers, but is only one of many. A key phrase is "*The only stupid question is the one not asked*".

.


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## Firstram

wachuko said:


> will see what it is good for.
> 
> 
> View attachment 378607



Like Aaron-W mentioned, it could be a plinth for a QCTP


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## wachuko

Firstram said:


> Like Aaron-W mentioned, it could be a plinth for a QCTP



I have one arriving today.  Will give it a try there.


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## C-Bag

KevinM said:


> The sticker says that you should have the lever toward you (tension off) before starting.
> 
> View attachment 378673


I can see this if I was on the higher speeds. Since I have never used them(600rpm seems my sweat spot) I leave it engaged*/tensioned* all the time and never have do slip start it.


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## C-Bag

Firstram said:


> Like Aaron-W mentioned, it could be a plinth for a QCTP


That’s my guess too.


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## wachuko

C-Bag said:


> I can see this if I was on the higher speeds. Since I have never used them(600rpm seems my sweat spot) I leave it engaged*/tensioned* all the time and never have do slip start it.


BC3... I think that is where I have mine now as I practice with some material...


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## wachuko

Bi11Hudson said:


> *Two items:
> 
> First:* The intent of the instructions is to start the motor with the belt released. It probably has to do with a weak starting winding, cap, et al. I have started mine without releasing the belt for 20 years or more. I have destroyed the belt acouple of times, but with my homade pulleys, I attribute that as much to poor workmanship as wear. Keeping in mind that a belt will take a "set" if left tight during occasional use, it might be advisable to release the belt when not being used. Your photo of the belt routing is correct, BTW. Mine uses only one belt for both ranges. A matter of specific pulley sizes and motor mounting.
> 
> *Second*: There are occasions where reversing the lead screw has advantages. In "normal" use, one makes a cut from RIGHT to LEFT. If you desired to cut LEFT to RIGHT, you would need to do it by hand. An example would be dressing the left side of a part. Or, more significantly, cutting a LEFT HAND thread. The stock machine, as delivered, cannot to this. There are many articles on the web about making a "reverse tumbler". The only one that comes to my slim mind is a Steve Bedaire. Mine is built to a slim profile to provide clearance for the home brew planetary gear head. Most tumblers are thicker.
> 
> Reversing the motor has its' own purpose, not the least is so you can leave the threading engaged during multiple passes on *metric* gears. The lead screw on *most* imports is 16TPI. When doing metric threads, the threading gears *must* remain connected so that multiple passes remain in registration. A whole 'nuther subject, the rabbit hole gets deeper and deeper.
> 
> The "rabbit hole" is very deep, a novice machinist will spend more time asking questions than producing. This board is an excellent source of answers, but is only one of many. A key phrase is "*The only stupid question is the one not asked*".
> 
> .



Thank you.  I am far, far away from making threads... But I will get there eventually... hehehehe always the eternal optimistic. 

Right now I am just happy that I was able to remove the tool bit that was on the tool post and installed a second one at the right height.  So proud, so proud.


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## wachuko

Bi11Hudson said:


> *Two items:
> 
> First:* The intent of the instructions is to start the motor with the belt released. It probably has to do with a weak starting winding, cap, et al. I have started mine without releasing the belt for 20 years or more. I have destroyed the belt acouple of times, but with my homade pulleys, I attribute that as much to poor workmanship as wear. Keeping in mind that a belt will take a "set" if left tight during occasional use, it might be advisable to release the belt when not being used. Your photo of the belt routing is correct, BTW. Mine uses only one belt for both ranges. A matter of specific pulley sizes and motor mounting.
> 
> *Second*: There are occasions where reversing the lead screw has advantages. In "normal" use, one makes a cut from RIGHT to LEFT. If you desired to cut LEFT to RIGHT, you would need to do it by hand. An example would be dressing the left side of a part. Or, more significantly, cutting a LEFT HAND thread. The stock machine, as delivered, cannot to this. There are many articles on the web about making a "reverse tumbler". The only one that comes to my slim mind is a Steve Bedaire. Mine is built to a slim profile to provide clearance for the home brew planetary gear head. Most tumblers are thicker.
> 
> Reversing the motor has its' own purpose, not the least is so you can leave the threading engaged during multiple passes on *metric* gears. The lead screw on *most* imports is 16TPI. When doing metric threads, the threading gears *must* remain connected so that multiple passes remain in registration. A whole 'nuther subject, the rabbit hole gets deeper and deeper.
> 
> The "rabbit hole" is very deep, a novice machinist will spend more time asking questions than producing. This board is an excellent source of answers, but is only one of many. A key phrase is "*The only stupid question is the one not asked*".
> 
> .


On the tumbler reverse... found Steve's website that goes into the making of one... not that I will do it anytime soon... but good to keep as reference...



			Steve Bedair's 9x20 Lathe Site
		


And I think that I finally understand the difference and where my confusion was...  It is similar to what you wrote, but it took time to click in my brain...

*"The reverse tumbler allows the direction of the leadscrew to be reversed without changing the direction of the motor / chuck. ( This should no be confused with the motor reverse ) This allows you to make cuts away from the chuck and also to cut left handed threads."*


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## Bi11Hudson

The* relationship *between the chuck and the leadscrew. . .

Just a thought, especially if you have never run a lathe in the past. Plastic (PVC) pipe is a very good source of practice material. It is messy, building a rat's nest of shavings in just part of one pass. But you can learn much that way at a fairly low cost without endangering the machine. Including external and internal threading. Grinding and setting attitude of tooling takes a lot of "hands on" practice. PVC is very forgiving of such adjustments. Just keep your hands away even when the machine is stopped. Use a hook, a piece of steel wire taped to a piece of broom stick. I have reacted to a snarl with my hand and had my knuckles laid open by  the chuck jaws. Blood is *highly* corrosive to the machine and must be avoided whenever possible.

I have run depth of cut upwards of 0.050 in soft (annealed) material. The 050 cut is deep, the machine is much more comfortable at half that. But I do smaller (models) work for the most part. My normal *roughing* cuts are on the order of 020. A reasonable learning depth with plastic stock. Be aware you can just as easily use acrylics to learn on but they are brittle and cost much more. Find a stick of 1/2 or 3/4 pipe and hack away. Save the metal stock for useful projects. 

.


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## WobblyHand

@Bi11Hudson has it exactly right, about everything, in the post above, especially the part about blood!

Do practice on some pvc pipe, it's cheap, cheap, cheap and very forgiving.  Great to learn single point threading on!


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## wachuko

Hahahahahahaha blood stains!!! If I did not know any better, I would have said that you know me well... I am blood brother with all my vehicles and most of the tools in the garage! 

I bought some Delrin to play with.  But I also have some PVC pipes here... did not think about using those.  Will play with that!


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## WobblyHand

All joking aside, a lathe can kill.  You need to keep your body parts away, or suffer the consequences.  Take heed to Bill's admonition of using a hook, or long nose pliers, or something that is NOT YOUR HAND to clear swarf.  It could either cut you up very badly, or pull you in, or both.  If the swarf starts whipping around, hit the E-Stop.  Then clear the swarf.


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## wachuko

Fully understand the risk.  I am taking off my watch, using short leave shirt, no gloves, being careful to make sure the wrench is never left in the chuck, nothing in the path (on the table) of the cut I am making... 

I have much to learn on workflow and layout of the tools needed... so I avoid clutter while working...

And watching again the lathe skills series videos from Blondihacks... and anything else I find here in the forum...


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## WobblyHand

Didn't want to come across like a bad guy, but one does need to be alert and vigilant while operating.  If you feel your attention is dragging, stop, before you make a mistake or have an accident.  Come back to it later.  Don't operate while having a conversation, at least in the beginning, maybe not ever.  We want to see all the cool things you will make with whatever gear you have.  End of safety lecture.

Ok, back to work having fun!  You will develop a workflow that works for you.  In the beginning, I had to make good sketches or drawings to make things.  Now that using the lathe is more natural, sometimes I don't bother with a detailed sketch, just a basic one.  For now, learn the machine and do basic operations.  Just turning to a precise diameter is something you will have to learn, as it requires you to know about the characteristics of your cutting tools, as well as how to measure precisely.  It's all good stuff and will become natural before long.  If not, and you have questions, just post up and folks will be glad to help.


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## wachuko

My dad was a Marine...not going into details of how I was raised, but just know that I can take anything ... I do not get offended easy.  So speak/write freely with me.  Better to be safe than staining the lathe with my blood.


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## Aukai

Your ears will tell you a lot about what's going on, listen well.....


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## wachuko

Looks like that was for a QCTP...


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## Philzy

Steve-F said:


> Well done! That plate "might" be for mounting a Ball Turning device on it, less the post and the tool itself....best guess


That’s exactly what I thought.


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## Firstram

wachuko said:


> My dad was a Marine...not going into details of how I was raised, but just know that I can take anything ... I do not get offended easy.  So speak/write freely with me.  Better to be safe than staining the lathe with my blood.


I know exactly what you mean. I am very direct and prefer that people are the same way with me, a lot of people are put off by that. 

Good deal on the plinth!


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## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> On the tumbler reverse... found Steve's website that goes into the making of one... not that I will do it anytime soon... but good to keep as reference...
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Bedair's 9x20 Lathe Site
> 
> 
> 
> And I think that I finally understand the difference and where my confusion was...  It is similar to what you wrote, but it took time to click in my brain...
> 
> *"The reverse tumbler allows the direction of the leadscrew to be reversed without changing the direction of the motor / chuck. ( This should no be confused with the motor reverse ) This allows you to make cuts away from the chuck and also to cut left handed threads."*



Apparently I need to re-familiarize myself with this lathe, now I am thoroughly confused. I could have sworn it was the opposite, that the lead screw revered and the spindle didn't. It has been more than a year since I've had any real time to play with it between working, fiddling with other machines and re-arranging the shop. 

Disregard my rambling clearly my mind has gone.


----------



## wachuko

I mentioned not buying anything else besides the quick change tool post that I just got.  But I should at least get a 4-jaw chuck for it, correct?  To practice repeatability removing and reinstalling a part....

I will search for an inexpensive one.


----------



## WobblyHand

Down the rabbit hole, you go    There's always one more thing!
A four jaw is very useful.  Once you remove a part from a three jaw, and put it back, it won't be concentric again.  With a four jaw it is no problem, just dial it in and go.


----------



## wachuko

WobblyHand said:


> Down the rabbit hole, you go    There's always one more thing!
> A four jaw is very useful.  Once you remove a part from a three jaw, and put it back, it won't be concentric again.  With a four jaw it is no problem, just dial it in and go.



I know, I know... but just that and then I am done... promise...

Researching the type of chuck needed... If I got this correctly, I should look for  a chuck with a M39-4.0 thread.  And I should look for something like a 5" chuck...


----------



## WobblyHand

You might want to confirm the thread.  Surprisingly, a lot of chucks come imperial, even for asian machines.  If you have a thread gauge, (if you don't, you need one!) check the pitch.  It might be a 1.5" 8TPI thread.  My chinese dividing head 5" chuck uses this thread.  Why?  Because they copied the original B&S design, which was imperial.


----------



## wachuko

WobblyHand said:


> You might want to confirm the thread.  Surprisingly, a lot of chucks come imperial, even for asian machines.  If you have a thread gauge, (if you don't, you need one!) check the pitch.  It might be a 1.5" 8TPI thread.  My chinese dividing head 5" chuck uses this thread.  Why?  Because they copied the original B&S design, which was imperial.


Good point... I was just going by the specs of the Grizzly G4000 since I could not find the specs in the documentation from the HF lathe...


----------



## wachuko

Oh... I see... looks like everything will be a project... I would have to get a backplate and modify it to fit the 4-jaws chuck.... ha!  Here I thought it was going to be easy to find something that would be a direct fit.


----------



## WobblyHand

Obviously true for the Grizzly part.  As they say, "trust but verify".  Would stink mightily to buy the wrong part, especially with your wife scrutinizing your purchases.  Measure it carefully with a caliper, or better yet a micrometer.  Measure the thread.  Measure once, get it right. 

As I was looking at chucks, I did notice one needed to get a semi-finished backing plate.  As you say, another project.  
M39-4 are not as common as 1.5"-8, at least that's what my preliminary searches show.  Good luck with your search.


----------



## wachuko

I think that I have a thread gauge in the toolbox... recently dedicated a small toolbox just for anything thread related.  There  should be one in there...


----------



## Aaron_W

WobblyHand said:


> Obviously true for the Grizzly part.  As they say, "trust but verify".  Would stink mightily to buy the wrong part, especially with your wife scrutinizing your purchases.  Measure it carefully with a caliper, or better yet a micrometer.  Measure the thread.  Measure once, get it right.
> 
> As I was looking at chucks, I did notice one needed to get a semi-finished backing plate.  As you say, another project.
> M39-4 are not as common as 1.5"-8, at least that's what my preliminary searches show.  Good luck with your search.



Yeah, when I bought mine since it was an older Enco I was under the impression it was 1-1/2"-8 as some were...  apparently not by 1994 though. I have a lot of 1-1/2"-8 tooling for my Logan so thought they could share. Then I tried to thread on one of the chucks, nope mine is metric.   

The Jet are apparently 1-1/2"-8, some old Grizzly's are as well. Not sure about the HF ones. M39-4.0 is very close to 1-1/2"-8 in appearance so you can't tell by eye.

The only source I've found for new M39-4.0 chucks is Grizzly, it seems to be a thread only used on these 9x20 lathes. I'm sure they turn up used on ebay from time to time. Grizzly does sell a good 4 jaw for these, but it isn't cheap. The 4 jaw these usually come with is a joke, more like a wood turning chuck. The 3 jaw seems to be ok though. 

Since you have the PM lathe coming I wouldn't go too nuts buying more tooling for this one unless you decide to keep it as a second lathe, then you can go crazy.


----------



## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> Since you have the PM lathe coming I wouldn't go too nuts buying more tooling for this one unless you decide to keep it as a second lathe, then you can go crazy.



I am not getting rid of it... that is one of my illness... I just can't let go of any tools...   I will find a corner for it somewhere in the new house when we move in a few years.

As I watch the videos, the more I am convinced that I will need a 4-jaw chuck for it...  The wait for the PM lathe is a long one... 4-5 months... lots to learn and practice during that time.  But not going crazy either.  I need to find a budget 4-jaw chuck that is good enough to learn with.


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## WobblyHand

I was going to quote the same phrase from Aaron_W, but you beat me to it.  If you do decide to get rid of it, I call dibs.  It's still more capable (size) than what I have.  (7x mini-lathe)  It would be worth a road trip for me.

You will find an ok 4J on eBay with patience.  Harder to find the backplate.  It is also likely you will need to machine the backplate.  It's a good skill to learn.  Since M39-4 and 1.5"-8 are so close, still very worthwhile to measure.  39mm = 1.535"  4mm = 0.1575", vs. 1.500" and 0.125".


----------



## wachuko

We got to Ocala last night... so I will not be able to measure anything until Monday when we get back to Orlando... 

I did find an HHIP 3900-3339 M39X4 backplate on ebay and ordered it... worst case scenario, I wasted 28.00 and it will end up as another decoration on the wall of shame... best case, the threads are a perfect fit.


----------



## Bi11Hudson

wachuko said:


> I think that I have a thread gauge in the toolbox... recently dedicated a small toolbox just for anything thread related.  There  should be one in there...


Sometime in the 1990s, Grizzly changed vendors. The earlier model was G-1550, which is what I have. When they changed over, the new part number was G-4000. They are essentially the same machine, the G-1550 having a 1-1/2X8 TPI spindle nose and the G-4000 having the M39X4. There are some minor differences, fasteners being Imperial versus Metric, things of that nature. That and the source, the G-1550 being made in Taiwan and the G-4000 made in Mainland China.

There are many different importers of this basic (standard?) design. Most of them I will avoid, with the exception of Enco and the *JET BD19*. Not too sure of the number, it doesn't ring true to my ears. But close, just follow it up until you find a similar number. The Jet is a very well built machine, with a history similar to the Griz G-1550. I don't know if they changed to the cheaper version or not. Jet seems to market to a slightly different field than does Grizzly. And is priced a little higher. All in all, the color of the paint is the biggest difference. Enco is directed more to the metal working market, Jet and Grizzly mainly woodworking.

Now, in *reply to your post above*, there are three(3) thread forms you need to be aware of up front. Those being* Imperial* (USS, SAE, others). *Metric* (and SI), and *Whitworth*. There are many more, but these three are so easily confused. Each will have a different guage, what is in your tool box will probably cover just one. If you use an Imperial guage and a leaf almost but not quite fits, it is likely metric. Whitwirth is a now archaic English thread that will show up on older English equipment. They are today metric. Imperial and metric are a 60 degree thread form, Whitworth is 55 degrees. The rabbit hole gets deeper and deeper. . . Sorry I am being so verbose, I dropped into lecture mode.

As far as a* four(4) jaw chuck* goes, I learned on a four jaw 'way back when. The 4 jaw is still my preference for any "precision" work, although I mostly use the 3 jaw. My 4 jaw came from Grizzly without a backing plate. I had to make one to fit. The big advantage there is that when you go to a different machine, the backing plate is the only change. Mine is a 5 inch, a 6 inch would have been better but the 5 inch costed less. For a novice, the 4 jaw will require you learn to mount the work. Well worth the effort, but not critical. The 3 jaw will serve you well until you learn to do serious work.  I would say to put a 4 jaw on the options list and keep it near the top. Had I had a 3 jaw early on, I would have used it more. But learning on the 4 jaw has paid off from time to time.

*EDIT*: A good purchase at this point would be a copy of "Machinery's Handbook". At about 3 inches thick, it contains most information necessary for the novice. It is updated regularly and contains much information useful to a practising machinist. My recommendation would be to look on eBay for a copy from the '40s or so. Much better for the hobby machinist without all the leading edge automation. It sells high from booksellers, but can be found for much less if you watch and wait. I have a very early copy(1933ish) and a recent copy(2005ish) as well. Both have a place on my bookshelf but gather dust. The one on my bench is a 1944 edition, the one with the most useful information.

.


----------



## wachuko

Lecture away!! I am learning!

For the gauges... Is this kit good to cover them all?  6 Pieces Stainless Steel Screw Thread Pitch Cutting Gauge Tool Set, 3 Pieces Center Gage, 1 America Type, 1 Metric America Type, 1 Metric Imperial US for Industrial Measurement







And found a copy of the 11th Edition (1943) for the Machinery's Handbook.  Placing the order now.  Was only 27.00 with free shipping.


----------



## Aaron_W

Bi11Hudson said:


> Sometime in the 1990s, Grizzly changed vendors. The earlier model was G-1550, which is what I have. When they changed over, the new part number was G-4000. They are essentially the same machine, the G-1550 having a 1-1/2X8 TPI spindle nose and the G-4000 having the M39X4. There are some minor differences, fasteners being Imperial versus Metric, things of that nature. That and the source, the G-1550 being made in Taiwan and the G-4000 made in Mainland China.
> .



I wonder if country of origin is the deciding factor between metric or standard. I understand the older Enco were made in Taiwan which was a big part of the reason I gave in and snapped up the one I have, only to find out it was made in China after I got there. It was still a good deal and I had driven a whole 30 minutes to look at it so it came home with me anyway.  

Mine is a 1994 so may have been shortly after they changed suppliers. As far as I know the Jet 9x19 is still made in Taiwan and has the 1-1/2"-8 thread.

The older Jet was the BD-920, the current version is the BDB-919 and has some improvements over the common 9x19 lathe. They also now offer a lengthened BDB-929 which adds another 10". The Jet lathes may be better but they are now 2x the price of a Grizzly G4000.


Another place where there is some confusion is 9x19 and 9x20, apparently the only difference is whether the lathe is sold with a dead center or live center. A dead center is shorter by about an inch...


----------



## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> Another place where there is some confusion is 9x19 and 9x20, apparently the only difference is whether the lathe is sold with a dead center or live center. A dead center is shorter by about an inch...



You answered a question I had... I would look at both and they looked identical... could not figure out why one was 9x19 and the other 9x20... Now I know... cool.


----------



## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> Lecture away!! I am learning!
> 
> For the gauges... Is this kit good to cover them all?  6 Pieces Stainless Steel Screw Thread Pitch Cutting Gauge Tool Set, 3 Pieces Center Gage, 1 America Type, 1 Metric America Type, 1 Metric Imperial US for Industrial Measurement
> 
> View attachment 378802
> 
> 
> And found a copy of the 11th Edition (1943) for the Machinery's Handbook.  Placing the order now.  Was only 27.00 with free shipping.
> 
> View attachment 378803



I think the older MH are better for most hobbyists unless you are heavily into CNC. The older editions have more info on doing things with the kind of equipment typical hobbyists have available to them. Some of this material was removed from newer books to make room for new stuff like CNC and the metric system. You will find some metalsmithing information in your 1940s edition that was removed from the more current editions. 

Editions prior to the 1970s only have a trace amount of metric info, basically just conversion tables. The later editions add a bunch of tables for metric threads and such which are not in the older books.

I have a 1992 and a 1954, and while there is a large degree of overlap, there is enough unique material to make owning both worthwhile. I'd still like to get a really early one something in the 1914-1920s range which has more on flat belts and other very early machine / tooling specific material.


If you can find it there is also a smaller guide to the handbook which helps to explain how to use all of this stuff. Ideally you want one matched to the edition you have but if you can't find that, it should still be usable, just perhaps a bit more work as it may not completely match up with the page references. 







One advantage to the more recent editions is they now offer large text, which is helpful for older eyes.


----------



## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> You answered a question I had... I would look at both and they looked identical... could not figure out why one was 9x19 and the other 9x20... Now I know... cool.



Typical marketing, hey we gave you a cheaper center so we will tell you it is a bigger lathe.


----------



## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> I think the older MH are better for most hobbyists unless you are heavily into CNC. The older editions have more info on doing things with the kind of equipment typical hobbyists have available to them. Some of this material was removed from newer books to make room for new stuff like CNC and the metric system. You will find some metalsmithing information in your 1940s edition that was removed from the more current editions.
> 
> Editions prior to the 1970s only have a trace amount of metric info, basically just conversion tables. The later editions add a bunch of tables for metric threads and such which are not in the older books.
> 
> I have a 1992 and a 1954, and while there is a large degree of overlap, there is enough unique material to make owning both worthwhile. I'd still like to get a really early one something in the 1914-1920s range which has more on flat belts and other very early machine / tooling specific material.
> 
> 
> If you can find it there is also a smaller guide to the handbook which helps to explain how to use all of this stuff. Ideally you want one matched to the edition you have but if you can't find that, it should still be usable, just perhaps a bit more work as it may not completely match up with the page references.
> 
> View attachment 378808
> 
> 
> 
> One advantage to the more recent editions is they now offer large text, which is helpful for older eyes.



I had not hit buy... let me see if I can find a matching set...


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## wachuko

Found the Machinery’s Handbook 13th edition 1946 printing and also a 13th edition of  The Use of Handbook Tables and Formulas - Based on Machinery's Handbook - 13th - Done!


----------



## Bi11Hudson

wachuko said:


> Lecture away!! I am learning!
> 
> For the gauges... Is this kit good to cover them all?  6 Pieces Stainless Steel Screw Thread Pitch Cutting Gauge Tool Set, 3 Pieces Center Gage, 1 America Type, 1 Metric America Type, 1 Metric Imperial US for Industrial Measurement
> 
> View attachment 378802
> 
> 
> And found a copy of the 11th Edition (1943) for the Machinery's Handbook.  Placing the order now.  Was only 27.00 with free shipping.
> 
> View attachment 378803


*First off*, the guages: The triangular device is fine for Imperial threads. It can be used to determine pitch of Whitworth threads but will show gaps where it is 60 degree and Whitworth is 55 degrees. The two smaller guages are both Metric. They will be 60 degrees and in most cases will determine thread pitch fine. The "flat" guages are called colloquially "fish tails". I don't know the proper name but fish tails is well known in both the hobby and professional arenas. They are guages for use in grinding threading tools and setting up threading tools on the lathe.

Threading is generally done with the compound set to 29 degrees so that most of the work takes place on one side of the tool. It can be done straight in but each pass will be smaller, 0.005 vs 0.010 inch. It is mostly a matter of skill level as to just how deep. The first pass, called a "scratch" pass, is just deep enough to scratch the surface. That is then checked to verify that you are indeed cutting the desired pitch.

Once the compound is set up, the actual tool must be set to 90 degrees to the chuck. The notches in the fish tail guage come into play here. The guage is held against the work to be threaded and the tool comes into the notch. When it is properly aligned, the tool will fill the notch with no gap on either side. The fish tails are not really pitch guages, but are a necessity when setting up threading. Once you "get used" to the odd shape, they make good squares for small work as well as other uses.

As regards "*Machinery's Handbook*", the book is a "bible" of machining information. The copy you have shown is a good range, containing a little, but not all current, metric information. There is some toss-up about the usefulness of a guide. It is indeed handy for the occasional user but is not a requirement. Think of "Encyclopedia Brittanica", would you need a "guide" for that, or just dive in and prowl? Machinery's Handbook equates to the encyclopedia in that respect.

Most copies come from estates of old school machinists that didn't need a guide. They knew what they were looking for. And book sellers on eBay may know books but not necessarily machinery. The listed price seems a little high, but not overly so. Things are getting more expensive lately. I would say to go for it. If you should stumble over the guide book, it might be a good purchase. Or not, that is a personal call. The Handbook is the big issue.

I have several copies of the Handbook, but don't have a Guide. I am not a machinist by trade, I am was an industrial electrician. A master of my craft long ago, not so much today. I used Machinery's Handbook almost as much for electrical work as for mechanical work. A guide never entered into the equation. An example is EC&M controls, before being bought out by Sq D. There were many "custom" threads in use where a 60 degree thread form was not suitable to the situation. This is where the Handbook becomes useful.

I won't say that higher IQ comes into play, but those that need the Guide are, *to me*, wannabes to the craft. They aren't so much a machinist as someone that wants to be called one. I'll leave the final call to your discretion as you become more experienced. I am a master of my craft of old, I don't need to be called something else.

*EDIT*: If you flip over the smaller, Metric guages, you may find that they also work for Whitworth. That guage looks mightly familiar.

.


----------



## Aaron_W

Bi11Hudson said:


> I won't say that higher IQ comes into play, but those that need the Guide are, *to me*, wannabes to the craft. They aren't so much a machinist as someone that wants to be called one. I'll leave the final call to your discretion as you become more experienced. I am a master of my craft of old, I don't need to be called something else.



For someone trying to learn this from the internet, I have found the guide handy. Trying to read the Handbook cold can be like reading something in Spanish. I can muddle through with my high school Spanish enough to figure out the meaning but it is a lot easier when it is already in English.

I have no illusions of being a machinist, I'm just a guy using machine tools to make stuff. I frequently have to resort to books, youtube videos or asking questions to do anything of any significant complexity.


----------



## wachuko

Bi11Hudson said:


> As far as a* four(4) jaw chuck* goes, I learned on a four jaw 'way back when. The 4 jaw is still my preference for any "precision" work, although I mostly use the 3 jaw. My 4 jaw came from Grizzly without a backing plate. I had to make one to fit. The big advantage there is that when you go to a different machine, the backing plate is the only change. Mine is a 5 inch, a 6 inch would have been better but the 5 inch costed less. For a novice, the 4 jaw will require you learn to mount the work. Well worth the effort, but not critical. The 3 jaw will serve you well until you learn to do serious work.  I would say to put a 4 jaw on the options list and keep it near the top. Had I had a 3 jaw early on, I would have used it more. But learning on the 4 jaw has paid off from time to time.



So a 6" 4-jaws independent chuck will be the way to go?  The difference in price (for the ones I am looking at) is 40.00 more for the 6" over the 5"...

Too bad those 4-jaws combination chucks are so expensive... one of those would have been nice...  focus, man! focus!!  You have another lathe coming...


----------



## WobblyHand

Yes, _do _focus.  What did you order with the PM lathe?  If you didn't get a 4J with the PM, then the one you get now, could be used on the PM.  If you just need to practice some and budget is tight, you know your answer.  If things are really tight, just use the 3J.  A 4J isn't worth marital disharmony.  It's ok to pause the binge.  You can learn a lot with a lowly 3J.  When you can shake the money tree and $$ falls off, then buy the 4J.


----------



## wachuko

WobblyHand said:


> Yes, _do _focus.  What did you order with the PM lathe?  If you didn't get a 4J with the PM, then the one you get now, could be used on the PM.  If you just need to practice some and budget is tight, you know your answer.  If things are really tight, just use the 3J.  A 4J isn't worth marital disharmony.  It's ok to pause the binge.  You can learn a lot with a lowly 3J.  When you can shake the money tree and $$ falls off, then buy the 4J.


I do get carried away….

I will order the 5”… very inexpensive and will let me practice


----------



## Bi11Hudson

wachuko said:


> So a 6" 4-jaws independent chuck will be the way to go?  The difference in price (for the ones I am looking at) is 40.00 more for the 6" over the 5"...
> 
> Too bad those 4-jaws combination chucks are so expensive... one of those would have been nice...  focus, man! focus!!  You have another lathe coming...





WobblyHand said:


> Yes, _do _focus.  What did you order with the PM lathe?  If you didn't get a 4J with the PM, then the one you get now, could be used on the PM.  If you just need to practice some and budget is tight, you know your answer.  If things are really tight, just use the 3J.  A 4J isn't worth marital disharmony.  It's ok to pause the binge.  You can learn a lot with a lowly 3J.  When you can shake the money tree and $$ falls off, then buy the 4J.


A 6" should do fine. A 7" would push the limits of a 9" machine. The 6" chuck will close on work as large as 8". If you are going to work on stuff that big, the 9" machine is *much too small*. As would be the PM machine that you have coming. With something that large you would need to  watch that the open jaws extending outside the chuck body did not reach the shears. Remember, swing is diameter. Center is only 4-1/2 inches above the shears. A 6" chuck takes up 3" of that before opening the jaws. Even with small work, it is a good practice to pull the chuck through at least one revolution by hand before starting. It will soon become a habit, a *good habit* that will pay off when you least expect it.

Dream big, *but keep those dreams under control.* A 4 jaw chuck is a heavy device. Even the front bearings on a 12 inch machine would be loaded heavily with one mounted. I neglected to mention, my 5" 4 jaw chuck is a scroll chuck. It is self centering, useful for square and octagonal work. I do most of my work on models, my 4 jaw independant for modeling is a 75mm chuck, roughly 3 inches. 

I do have a 12 inch machine, an Atlas Craftsman, and an 8" 4 jaw independant for it. But even with a 12 inch swing, it's all I can do to lift the chuck into place. An old man needs to keep an eye on his physical limits. I shudder to think what the front bearings carry when work is loaded and I make a cut. Never mind large diameter work, even a crankshaft at 3/4" diameter with journal offset around 1/2" would be a "hand full" for a 12 inch lathe.

I stand on my call earlier to keep the 4 jaw chuck at the top of a wish list. It isn't necessary at this point in your learning curve. As you gain experience and you find a *need* for one, you can negotiate with SWMBO about it. She might possibly see to it that one shows up as a gift one day. It has happened, though not to me. Yeah, well. . . 

To digress into a *different subject, tail stock centers:* There is today a "live center" that runs on ball bearings. Going with "*old school*" definitions and the old books I learned from, the difference between a "live" center and a "dead" center was that a dead center was hardened and a live center was not. Such a "dead" center would be used in the tail stock where work would rotate on the center. And the "live" center at the head stock where it could be trued as necessary. This is no longer an absolute but watching out for hardened centers is an issue. If I were to use a "non rotating" center in the tail stock, it would need to be hardened.

When the concept of a "ball bearing" center came along, the defination slowly started changing. Confused yet? On the current crop of machines, the head stock is MT3 and the tail stock is MT2. So it's not too big an issue. This includes my Atlas 12X36, build somewhere around 1951. *BUT*, I have an adapter in the MT3 headstock for my own purposes, making it MT2. Same as the tail stock. It would be very easy to confuse hardened and non-hardened centers. This comes about from an Atlas benchtop horizontal milling machine, which also has an MT2 receiver at the quill.

.


----------



## wachuko

Like I mentioned... I tend to get carried away in the excitement of the moment... This is a hobby that I have been wanting to do for soooo long... and it is just now that I am able to get to it.

Good best practice on turning the chuck by hand to avoid anything hitting something.  Will make that part of my workflow. 

The PM-1236 I ordered with DRO and a few other goodies.  It comes with the 6" 3jaws chuck as well as the 8" 4-jaws chuck.  The funny thing is that I started earlier last year (Jan 2020) asking about the small lathes just to start... bought nothing... then I asked about the PM1030 - bought nothing... then I asked about deciding between the 1030 and the 1130... and ended up ordering the PM-1228 - Here is that thread: PM-1030V or 1130V LATHE, only to change it again for the PM-1236... I do blame you all for this, lol, in a good way of course.  

I do not have anything specific that I want to make... I just want to be able to get lost in the garage seeing parts in bare metal and extracting those parts from it... 

So back to this 9x20... I went ahead and ordered the 5" 4-jaw independent chuck (SANOU  K72-125)... 70.00 and should be here Friday...

On the live center... this lathe came with both...


Confused? You won't be after this episode of soap


----------



## wachuko

One thing I noticed... this lathe has no E-Stop... will add one for safety.


----------



## Firstram

Soap was a funny show, thanks!


----------



## wachuko

Got a stainless steel tray to catch most of the chips... angle gauge also arrived...






Made my first project... and even used the parting tool... hehehe... simple stuff... but made the wife happy...











And then removed the broken knob... Parts diagram had a circlip holding it in place... nope, it was held with a screw.





Also, it looks to be two parts.  The shaft that steel, pressed (I think) into the pot metal knob.  I am taking measurements to make the knob and do the same, press that shaft back in place.  Then I will install a lever on the side...


----------



## wachuko

Pot metal removed... 











Yes... I can do this.  just a simple piece of round stock... Drill hole for shaft, a hole for a set screw to hold the knob in place... drill a hole and tap for the spring, bearing ball, and setscrew... then drill and tap for a small handle.


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## wachuko

A few learnings from getting that knob off that I wanted to share:

1.  You can't turn pot metal  .  That was scary... I thought I was doing well at the start but then the tool got caught and pieces flew all over... never doing that again...
2. I need to install an emergency stop on this lathe... see post 1.  The lathe just kept on going like nothing had happened.

On other news... got everything installed back.  Did not wanted anything going missing... I only need to build the knob and handle.















And the back plate arrived...


----------



## macardoso

I'll throw this out there. For a 12" lathe, I find a *6"* 3 Jaw chuck, an *8"* 4 Jaw chuck, and a *10"* faceplate are the most appropriately sized. A 6 jaw chuck is expensive and unnecessary unless you plan on doing work on delicate tubes. My only other purchase I'd like to add would be a 5C collet closer, but that can be down the road many years.

I got my 8" 4 jaw from an import supplier. Works well but I have definitely noticed the issues with jaw lift and perpendicularity of the chuck face and jaw step faces to the rotation axis. I can work around it but it takes more effort to set up that a higher quality chuck.

That all being said, I can dial stuff into concentricity and perpendicularity within tenths if I give it some patience.


----------



## wachuko

macardoso said:


> I'll throw this out there. For a 12" lathe, I find a *6"* 3 Jaw chuck, an *8"* 4 Jaw chuck, and a *10"* faceplate are the most appropriately sized. A 6 jaw chuck is expensive and unnecessary unless you plan on doing work on delicate tubes. My only other purchase I'd like to add would be a 5C collet closer, but that can be down the road many years.
> 
> I got my 8" 4 jaw from an import supplier. Works well but I have definitely noticed the issues with jaw lift and perpendicularity of the chuck face and jaw step faces to the rotation axis. I can work around it but it takes more effort to set up that a higher quality chuck.
> 
> That all being said, I can dial stuff into concentricity and perpendicularity within tenths if I give it some patience.


I did not get why the need for a 6-jaws...   What got me interested was the 4-jaw combination chucks.  These chucks have the features of the self centering type, as well as independent type. This enables the jaws to achieve a self centering clamping and, be adjusted separately.

Would that be the only chuck needed?  I guess not, for certain parts where only a 3-jaw would work... But I venture to guess, that in my case, something like that would be the only one I would leave on most of the time.  But way too expensive for me to consider one...

Anyway, back to reality...

Got out some of the aluminum stock... started to cut with a saw, since I do not have a bandsaw... well, father-in-law mentioned he had purchased a handheld one many, many moons ago, from Harbor Freight... Sure enough... and it was not even sticky... 

All I have to say is that I am never going to use a hacksaw again, ever... Using this was sweeeeeet....  Now I really want a 4x6 bandsaw!!







So I place the stock in the chuck, face both ends... and started to drill... Please excuse me, but it will take me awhile to get used to seeing the drill bit fixed while drilling the part . I was just smiling watching that...






I need to drill a 12.1 mm wide hole, 16.7 mm deep

So I still have not installed the QTCP... using the one that came with the lathe.  I got to practice using the tail end, self-centering drill bit, drill bit...

I got to the desired depth (accounting for the roundness of the drill bit) but could only get it to 11.8 mm with the drill bits that I have... I do not have one that will get me to the needed diameter, next up would go over the diameter needed... and I am not ready to practice with a boring tool... if I can't find a matching drill bit I will have to bite the bullet and give boring a try...

Wait, I have a 12mm 2-flute end mill... that could work, right?

Side comments...

The chuck-key needs to be taller and with longer handles... a bit of a PITA to have to move the chuck so I can clear the chuck-key to tighten the part...

I need an LED lamp with a magnifying glass...

I need a multiple outlet strip installed on the bench...


----------



## Just for fun

Sounds like your having fun!   I'm enjoying following along on your journey!   My learning will have to wait for my 1236T to show up!

Keep up the good work! 

Tim


----------



## macardoso

wachuko said:


> I did not get why the need for a 6-jaws...



You'll learn that a 3 jaw chuck distorts material, even solid bar, but especially pipe. Your lathe will cut it circular, then as you ease off on the chuck clamping, the part will spring into a tri-lobe shape. The more points of contact, the lower the distortion is. If people work with thin wall pipe a lot, a 6 jaw chuck can help keep the part deformation to a minimum. 



wachuko said:


> What got me interested was the 4-jaw combination chucks. These chucks have the features of the self centering type, as well as independent type.



Those are sweet. Don't own one but would love to.  I guess it would come down to the clamping repeatability of the scroll mechanism. It would need to be as accurate as you can dial in the 4 jaw to be super useful in my opinion. Also if I were to spend the money on a Bison, I'd want master jaws.


----------



## wachuko

Master jaws?   Searching for what those are.


----------



## WobblyHand

wachuko said:


> Wait, I have a 12mm 2-flute end mill... that could work, right?


It might end up too big.  This depends on how well you have adjusted your tailstock horizontal and vertical offsets and if the ram isn't cock-eyed.  If you haven't measured all that, and corrected it, it's likely to be too large.

If you have to hit the diameter exactly the answer is boring.


----------



## WobblyHand

macardoso said:


> You'll learn that a 3 jaw chuck distorts material, even solid bar, but especially pipe. Your lathe will cut it circular, then as you ease off on the chuck clamping, the part will spring into a tri-lobe shape.


Didn't know that.  Thanks for that gem.  For small stuff, I use an ER32 collet chuck.  It is relatively inexpensive and surprisingly low runout <0.0005".  Anything important or larger goes in my 4 jaw.


----------



## wachuko

Master Jaws means a two part jaw... Got it...


----------



## Bi11Hudson

macardoso said:


> You'll learn that a 3 jaw chuck distorts material, even solid bar, but especially pipe. Your lathe will cut it circular, then as you ease off on the chuck clamping, the part will spring into a tri-lobe shape. The more points of contact, the lower the distortion is. If people work with thin wall pipe a lot, a 6 jaw chuck can help keep the part deformation to a minimum.
> 
> 
> 
> Those are sweet. Don't own one but would love to.  I guess it would come down to the clamping repeatability of the scroll mechanism. It would need to be as accurate as you can dial in the 4 jaw to be super useful in my opinion. Also if I were to spend the money on a Bison, I'd want master jaws.


Using "EMT" thinwall conduit for a number of lightweight projects has left me in a bit of a corner there. What I did was to make an insert (steel) for the tubing and clamp it down tight in the chuck. EMT is just an example of the problem. Where accuracy is important, you'll want to figure some way to accomodate it. A six jaw chuck is an expensive answer, and still doesn't provide 100% protection.

I have a 4 jaw scroll chuck for when I need it. And a 4 jaw independant for when I need* that*. I'm old school and don't like "one size fits all". To me it's a matter of one size doesn't fit anything well. Just  my opinion, of course.

.

.


----------



## wachuko

Bi11Hudson said:


> Using "EMT" thinwall conduit for a number of lightweight projects has left me in a bit of a corner there. What I did was to make an insert (steel) for the tubing and clamp it down tight in the chuck. EMT is just an example of the problem. Where accuracy is important, you'll want to figure some way to accommodate it. A six jaw chuck is an expensive answer, and still doesn't provide 100% protection.
> 
> I have a 4 jaw scroll chuck for when I need it. And a 4 jaw independent for when I need* that*. I'm old school and don't like "one size fits all". To me it's a matter of one size doesn't fit anything well. Just  my opinion, of course.
> 
> .
> 
> .


I get that... maybe not a do-it-all chuck (or one-size fits all)... But, again, in my case being a newbie, a combination four-jaw chuck, I think it would have been a great option since I did not have a 4-jaw chuck...  

This is all hypothetical... I already bought a 4-jaw independent chuck...   70.00 vs 1,000.00.  Yeah, that was easy to decide...


----------



## wachuko

WobblyHand said:


> It might end up too big.  This depends on how well you have adjusted your tailstock horizontal and vertical offsets and if the ram isn't cock-eyed.  If you haven't measured all that, and corrected it, it's likely to be too large.
> 
> If you have to hit the diameter exactly the answer is boring.


Not ready to use a boring tool... I will get there... Too much out of my comfort zone right now.

For now I just ordered a 12mm drill bit and will finish the bottom with a 2-flute or 4 flute 12 mm end mill to make it flat... whatever difference in clearance is needed, I will get there creatively, hahahahaha


----------



## macardoso

wachuko said:


> Master Jaws means a two part jaw... Got it...
> 
> View attachment 379213
> 
> 
> View attachment 379214


Lets you create soft jaws for repeated or difficult to grip parts. Just like soft jaws on a mill vise.


----------



## wachuko

Since this lathe has no safety switch, I order a paddle switch for it... At least it is something easy to install until I can decide where to install an Emergency Stop Switch...


----------



## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> All I have to say is that I am never going to use a hacksaw again, ever... Using this was sweeeeeet....  Now I really want a 4x6 bandsaw!!
> 
> The chuck-key needs to be taller and with longer handles... a bit of a PITA to have to move the chuck so I can clear the chuck-key to tighten the part...
> 
> I need an LED lamp with a magnifying glass...
> 
> I need a multiple outlet strip installed on the bench...



Those handheld bandsaws seem like they could be really handy for somethings even if you had a horizontal. I've been tempted to pick one up a few times. Since you now have a better way to cut metal, I'd suggest getting picky looking for a swivel head bandsaw over the usual horizontal.

Something like this Grizzly

https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-5-x-6-1-2-hp-metal-cutting-bandsaw-w-swivel-head/g9742

I got to use an Ellis bandsaw in my welding classes and it was of this design (also about $3000 vs Grizzly's $900). It might not seem like a big thing turning the saw head instead of the work, but if you are cutting a 10 foot long piece, it really is. To cut a 45 on a long piece the end of the work will move several feet requiring a fairly large work area. I have one of the standard 4x6" bandsaws so when I get a long piece I end up having to turn the whole saw because I don't have the width to swing the material.


Chuck key sounds like a future project.  


I got one of these for Christmas last year to use on the workbench. Sadly I haven't got much time with it, but seems to be well made and I think I'm going to really like it once I get a chance to use it.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084P1GQW...olid=2D5GDRLKV14ZJ&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


Harbor Freight has power strips that match their US General tool chests...  You are going to need a place to keep all your new tools after all. 




wachuko said:


> I get that... maybe not a do-it-all chuck (or one-size fits all)... But, again, in my case being a newbie, a combination four-jaw chuck, I think it would have been a great option since I did not have a 4-jaw chuck...
> 
> This is all hypothetical... I already bought a 4-jaw independent chuck...   70.00 vs 1,000.00.  Yeah, that was easy to decide...



Where did you get the chuck, ebay? Did you get a plain back with an M39-4.0 backplate?

I don't have a 4 jaw on mine, planned on sharing the tooling with the Logan, but then found it had a metric spindle. I don't want to spend a lot on this lathe but under $100 for a 5" 4 jaw isn't bad, the 4 jaw on my Sherline was almost $150 for a 3" chuck.



wachuko said:


> Not ready to use a boring tool... I will get there... Too much out of my comfort zone right now.
> 
> For now I just ordered a 12mm drill bit and will finish the bottom with a 2-flute or 4 flute 12 mm end mill to make it flat... whatever difference in clearance is needed, I will get there creatively, hahahahaha



Boring isn't that hard, really not much different than turning except its on the inside. Mikey started a good thread on boring.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/a-boring-primer.75721/


----------



## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> Those handheld bandsaws seem like they could be really handy for somethings even if you had a horizontal. I've been tempted to pick one up a few times. Since you now have a better way to cut metal, I'd suggest getting picky looking for a swivel head bandsaw over the usual horizontal.
> 
> Something like this Grizzly
> 
> https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-5-x-6-1-2-hp-metal-cutting-bandsaw-w-swivel-head/g9742
> 
> I got to use an Ellis bandsaw in my welding classes and it was of this design (also about $3000 vs Grizzly's $900). It might not seem like a big thing turning the saw head instead of the work, but if you are cutting a 10 foot long piece, it really is. To cut a 45 on a long piece the end of the work will move several feet requiring a fairly large work area. I have one of the standard 4x6" bandsaws so when I get a long piece I end up having to turn the whole saw because I don't have the width to swing the material.
> 
> 
> Chuck key sounds like a future project.
> 
> 
> I got one of these for Christmas last year to use on the workbench. Sadly I haven't got much time with it, but seems to be well made and I think I'm going to really like it once I get a chance to use it.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084P1GQW...olid=2D5GDRLKV14ZJ&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
> 
> 
> Harbor Freight has power strips that match their US General tool chests...  You are going to need a place to keep all your new tools after all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get the chuck, ebay? Did you get a plain back with an M39-4.0 backplate?
> 
> I don't have a 4 jaw on mine, planned on sharing the tooling with the Logan, but then found it had a metric spindle. I don't want to spend a lot on this lathe but under $100 for a 5" 4 jaw isn't bad, the 4 jaw on my Sherline was almost $150 for a 3" chuck.
> 
> 
> 
> Boring isn't that hard, really not much different than turning except its on the inside. Mikey started a good thread on boring.
> 
> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/a-boring-primer.75721/



I was looking at the Grizzly G0926 only if I can get it on their sale price (around 389.00 + shipping).  If not, I will just grab one from Harbor Freight.  I do not want to go crazy on the bandsaw.  For me, 900.00 is crazy money for one, in my case of course...  I do not mind moving the bandsaw for cutting long pieces, lol.

Chuck key will be a future project.  Yes! 

On the lamp, I got this one:  LED Magnifying Lamp 2,200 lumens - arrives today. We have one that my wife uses... and she saw me eyeing hers and quickly told me to stay away from it and to get my own 






I got this power strip... 15 amp and has usb ports as well... should be good for now.






The chuck I got from eBay, correct.   It arrives today, will see what I get... there were no photos of the back... Here is the link: Lathe Chuck K72-125 5" 4 Jaw Independent Grinding Machine Cast Iron Lathe Chuck

Backplate is for a 6" chuck, so there will be a lot of chip build up in the lathe as I get that sucker to size... from eBay as well... HHIP 3900-3339 M39X4 Backplate for 6" 3 or 4 Jaw Chucks

On boring, thank you for the link.  Let me take a look.


----------



## Aaron_W

Buying new it is hard to beat the HF 4x6. I was thinking more along the lines of keeping an eye out for that style on the used market, I'd have a hard time spending $900 for a saw too, particularly since they were $600 just a few years ago. 

Seems to go in spurts but you can find some good deals on used bandsaws. The 4x6" class saws seem to pop up fairly frequently, Sears sold a similar saw for years under the Craftsman brand.


----------



## Steve-F

Now you need a poor man's DRO system   no batteries, no cord!


----------



## Bi11Hudson

The switch pictured looks very similar to one I got from Grizzly way back. Mine without enclosures though. If it is magnetic, which I'm pretty sure it is, it alone will serve as a good E-stop switch. The ON/OFF function on such a switch has contacts that operate a small internal relay. That relay requires manual restarting, so you don't get blindsided when the power comes back up. 

My suggestion would be a bracket (above and left) beside the change gear lever and the switch mounted outside the normal operating area of the machine so it is easy to reach. I have one mounted on an older table saw with very good results. Since I ordered several of them, it looks like a good addition to my small lathe as well. *Thank you for the idea*.

My personal position on control would be to keep the machine wiring intact, with the added switch as a "safety" additional to the factory control. Not just as an E-stop but to keep wandering hands from powering up the machine. The one issue to consider is the line current drawn by the machine. Your machine has a 3/4 HP motor. Such a motor has quite a starting draw. And for transferring to a larger machine later will require careful examination of the name plate current.

I don't have any children, and at my age would be more concerned about great grand children any way, and won't take casual visitors into the shop, a separate building. As a result, I don't think about such doubled up switches as often as I should. Usually only when directly confronted with the makings for such a system does the matter come up. Again, thanx.

.


----------



## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> Buying new it is hard to beat the HF 4x6. I was thinking more along the lines of keeping an eye out for that style on the used market, I'd have a hard time spending $900 for a saw too, particularly since they were $600 just a few years ago.
> 
> Seems to go in spurts but you can find some good deals on used bandsaws. The 4x6" class saws seem to pop up fairly frequently, Sears sold a similar saw for years under the Craftsman brand.



Ahh, got it.  Yes... I check the local Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace almost every day looking for one at a decent price.


----------



## wachuko

Steve-F said:


> Now you need a poor man's DRO system   no batteries, no cord!



Please elaborate.  That looks like a great idea!


----------



## wachuko

Bi11Hudson said:


> The switch pictured looks very similar to one I got from Grizzly way back. Mine without enclosures though. If it is magnetic, which I'm pretty sure it is, it alone will serve as a good E-stop switch. The ON/OFF function on such a switch has contacts that operate a small internal relay. That relay requires manual restarting, so you don't get blindsided when the power comes back up.
> 
> My suggestion would be a bracket (above and left) beside the change gear lever and the switch mounted outside the normal operating area of the machine so it is easy to reach. I have one mounted on an older table saw with very good results. Since I ordered several of them, it looks like a good addition to my small lathe as well. *Thank you for the idea*.
> 
> My personal position on control would be to keep the machine wiring intact, with the added switch as a "safety" additional to the factory control. Not just as an E-stop but to keep wandering hands from powering up the machine. The one issue to consider is the line current drawn by the machine. Your machine has a 3/4 HP motor. Such a motor has quite a starting draw. And for transferring to a larger machine later will require careful examination of the name plate current.
> 
> I don't have any children, and at my age would be more concerned about great grand children any way, and won't take casual visitors into the shop, a separate building. As a result, I don't think about such doubled up switches as often as I should. Usually only when directly confronted with the makings for such a system does the matter come up. Again, thanx.
> 
> .



The machine draws 15 amps.  The switch is rated at 16 amps.  Thank you for calling out that It is a magnetic switch as I had not noticed that.  So I should be good with just this one.  No need to add an additional e-stop, cool!


----------



## wachuko

Well... I could not leave things alone...  Saw a few folks installing RPM displays on these lathes... so I had to do the same.

Made a cutout on the side cover.  Inserted the display there. 
Made a small bracket out of aluminum for the hall sensor.  Secured it with a longer bolt on the factory location for one of the bolts that holds the cover.  Blue Loctite on everything...
JB weld for the magnet on the spindle...
Had an old 12 volt power supply from an ethernet switch that I had thrown away.  Perfect!

I still need to install some wire clamps to permanently secure the wiring.  Right now I just used some small binder clips (and removed the handles)...  I also need to make a cover for the exposed electronics...


----------



## Steve-F

wachuko said:


> Please elaborate.  That looks like a great idea!


Those are Harbor Freight 1" travel indicators ($17.00) held by slotted alum brackets to move to where ever you need them and I also have 2" and 4" indicators for the longer stuff, the brackets I just attached to existing holes and you can also use a mag base as each machine has it's own situation.


----------



## wachuko

Chuck arrived... 











I have my work cut out for me....


----------



## wachuko

Also received a few things from Little Machine Shop...  Handle for the knob I am making... Tool post (because it was faster than me modifying a bolt), and a carriage stop...






Also the lamp came in... Here you go, lamp in place, QCTP installed...


----------



## wachuko

Let's get working on the knob replacement...  my second project with the lathe... Mill machine was needed as well...

12 mm drill bit arrived... still needed to bring hole to spec by using some emery cloth with a rod... but got it to fit perfectly...






There are two positions on this knob, and a bearing ball with a spring and set screw... so needed to recreate that... I managed to set the bearing ball in place while sliding the knob... then tapped the knob and the ball left an indented mark on the knob.  











Off to the milling machine to drill the hole... then M6 tap for the set screw that holds the spring and bearing ball in place...






In this photo you can see that the side of the stock has some nicks... I later ran it on the lathe and got rid of those... 















Left to do is the side hole and tap for a set screw that will hold it against the shaft...  And to figure out where and how to place the handle.  I am thinking here at an angle facing forward...   What do you guys think??


----------



## matthewsx

wachuko said:


> Chuck arrived...
> 
> View attachment 379318
> 
> 
> View attachment 379319
> 
> 
> I have my work cut out for me....
> 
> View attachment 379320
> 
> 
> View attachment 379321


I’d be inclined to cut a large portion of that backplate away with an angle grinder.

John


----------



## wachuko

matthewsx said:


> I’d be inclined to cut a large portion of that backplate away with an angle grinder.
> 
> John



But think of all the practice I can get from turning that down to size in the lathe!!


----------



## wachuko

Steve-F said:


> Those are Harbor Freight 1" travel indicators ($17.00) held by slotted alum brackets to move to where ever you need them and I also have 2" and 4" indicators for the longer stuff, the brackets I just attached to existing holes and you can also use a mag base as each machine has it's own situation.



I have the same bolt mounts... I will see if I have stock to make those.  Can you give me the measurements of the material you use?  Rough dimensions are fine.  I just want to see what I need to start with and what dimensions I should be hitting...

I see several projects in that photo:

1. Dial indicator holder (mechanical DRO)
2. What is the reason I see folks installing bearings on here??  I will still need to replace the bolt that I got from Little Machine Shop.  It does not comes out enough.  And if installing bearings is a good modification to make, I will need that bolt to be longer to accommodate for those.
3. I like that!!  Locking knob... and I will finally get to make a knurl!!!  More details on this one please.  Is there a hex bit in there? secured with a set screw?
4. Looks like another mount... a photo of this please?
5. Wait a minute!!! What!!!???


----------



## Steve-F

OK, dimensions for #1 and it's little brother #4 on the Z axis I will have to get when I'm at home. #2 is a 3/8 -16 stud threaded into the compound from a mill hold down dog set and the  nut to fit it. #3 is a carriage lock knob for the Z axis which is just a knob I made pressed on over the allen head screw that was there. I see you noticed my broken lead screw handle, that's on my list:<) Yes, the QDTP is one I made from some ideas on the web I saw, I will search for the one that inspired me, I might still have the model too, will have to look. Yes to knurling:<) Here is a pick of that tool as you will need a scissor type vs a X axis pressure type, to rough on the lead screw. Also links to the making of most of this...








						Emco Compact 8 Cross Slide dimension request
					

I now have the bed, carriage and a spindle coming in a week or so. Could one of you that has one of these machines, please give me some basic dimensions of the cross slide, as I am going to make one and right now I'm scaling photos and I'm sure there is some error there ;) any and all replies...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				











						Emco-Compact 8 lead screw question
					

While I'm trying to resurrect my lathe from the bits and pieces I have , I do not understand the lead screw. It appears that there is no drive system, just the hand crank feature at one end. Has mine been modified? Maybe a different model? How does yours appear to be put together? I have a...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				





Edit, found the link....http://www.stubmandrel.co.uk/workshop/88-make-a-quick-change-toolpost


----------



## wachuko

Steve-F said:


> OK, dimensions for #1 and it's little brother #4 on the Z axis I will have to get when I'm at home. #2 is a 3/8 -16 stud threaded into the compound from a mill hold down dog set and the  nut to fit it. #3 is a carriage lock knob for the Z axis which is just a knob I made pressed on over the allen head screw that was there. I see you noticed my broken lead screw handle, that's on my list:<) Yes, the QDTP is one I made from some ideas on the web I saw, I will search for the one that inspired me, I might still have the model too, will have to look. Yes to knurling:<) Here is a pick of that tool as you will need a scissor type vs a X axis pressure type, to rough on the lead screw. Also links to the making of most of this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emco Compact 8 Cross Slide dimension request
> 
> 
> I now have the bed, carriage and a spindle coming in a week or so. Could one of you that has one of these machines, please give me some basic dimensions of the cross slide, as I am going to make one and right now I'm scaling photos and I'm sure there is some error there ;) any and all replies...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hobby-machinist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emco-Compact 8 lead screw question
> 
> 
> While I'm trying to resurrect my lathe from the bits and pieces I have , I do not understand the lead screw. It appears that there is no drive system, just the hand crank feature at one end. Has mine been modified? Maybe a different model? How does yours appear to be put together? I have a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hobby-machinist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit, found the link....http://www.stubmandrel.co.uk/workshop/88-make-a-quick-change-toolpost



That is a beautiful work of mechanical art!!!


----------



## Steve-F

Thank you! A bunch of fun to make too! You are steps away from doing the same


----------



## wachuko

Steve-F said:


> #3 is a carriage lock knob for the Z axis which is just a knob I made pressed on over the allen head screw that was there.



Pressed bolt in the knob... good grief...

I am always thinking the most complicated way to do things... Goodness...  Here I was thinking about cutting a hex wrench, pressing it and securing it with a set screw...

Just press the bolt on the knob, duh!!


----------



## wachuko

This is looking good.  Of course I do not have the pressure of making it to a set of plans... this is all freehand...
Watched some videos on how to drill on radius surfaces... first use an end mill to make a flat area, then center drill, drill and tap...











Also drilled and tap the side hole for the set screw...  only waiting for the set of assorted set screws that I ordered... those should be here today.  But outside of that, done!!!















EDIT: The set screw arrived.  This task is now complete!!


----------



## Steve-F

Excellent!! I'm going to have to do that myself for mine!


----------



## wachuko

Well... I tried making the knob that locks the cross slide.  The knurling tool that came with the QCTP does not work well with how flimsy the compound rest is... The knurling tool is the kind you push into the material... I have a scissor type as well, but it is too big for the AXA holders that I have...

Anyhow, I gave it a try... It works but it is not the best looking knurled knob...






So I removed the compound rest and installed the one the previous owner made...  Much better.  Will give that a test tomorrow....  Oh, and I will do a better chamfer on the knob as well... I was just trying the knurling tool first...


----------



## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> 2. What is the reason I see folks installing bearings on here?? I will still need to replace the bolt that I got from Little Machine Shop. It does not comes out enough. And if installing bearings is a good modification to make, I will need that bolt to be longer to accommodate for those.



Odd, mine fit with no modifications. I got the QCTP from LMS along with the adaptor. Yours looks like the same QCTP, but maybe if it was from another vendor there is a little difference in size? I think you said you got AXA so that should be the same.

Not sure why anyone would add a bearing, the handle already has a bearing.


Also figured out my confusion on the reverse. My 9x20 is like yours forward and reverse on the spindle, no reverse on the lead screw. The way my Logan is wired it has no reverse on the spindle, but a reversing lead screw I got them mixed up in my head.

I need more time in the shop to play with my toys. 


Nice work so far.


----------



## Steve-F

OK, I have a few reference pic of the Budget DRO....plus I gave you a bad link yesterday, here is the one I meant to post...









						Emco Compact 8 dimension request
					

Hello, I have acquired a Emco Compact 8 lathe bed and carriage. Can some one please give some measurements of the spindle housing and center line of the spindle from the bed?  I'm going to give this project a shot at working again ;)  Thanks !!!  Steve




					www.hobby-machinist.com


----------



## wachuko

Steve-F said:


> OK, I have a few reference pic of the Budget DRO....plus I gave you a bad link yesterday, here is the one I meant to post...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emco Compact 8 dimension request
> 
> 
> Hello, I have acquired a Emco Compact 8 lathe bed and carriage. Can some one please give some measurements of the spindle housing and center line of the spindle from the bed?  I'm going to give this project a shot at working again ;)  Thanks !!!  Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hobby-machinist.com



Very clear now on what I need to do.  Excellent, thank you!

Changing the compound rest for this tool post made all the difference.  Very rigid now.  And it made doing the knurling much easier.

Not perfect, but good enough for the task.


----------



## Steve-F

Nice job there!


----------



## wachuko

Removed 3-jaw chuck to start working on that backplate...
















I probably should do this first.  So that this thing is secured and I have some additional peace of mind... ohh, and more later on why all that area looks so nasty and dirty...








Cutting this down to size is going to be one of those projects that I do not think I will enjoy much.  The amount of dust, grit (sand-like) particles flying everywhere was unreal...






This was just two passes! 






Just figuring out the setup as this is so close that I had to stick out the cutter so it would reach the end of the backplate...






I did clean everything up...well, still need to empty the tray...










I need to cover everything around the area (my motorcycle is right next to the lathe)... this will not be fun, and not because of the process, but because the lathe is right next to the laundry door and on the way to the fridge we have in the garage... so lots of traffic when getting stuff from there.

Meaning, I can already hear my wife "you can't take all the grime/dirt inside!  The floor feels like walking on sand!  wah wah wah wah wah wah". Good grief!


----------



## Aaron_W

Maybe a bit late now, but I was given a great tip when turning cast iron. Get one of the cheap straw colored paint brushes (they are actually called chip brushes) and hold it or otherwise secure it behind the cutting tool to deflect the chips. I did this when I turned some back plates and it made a huge difference. These brushes are also handy for general machine clean up as well.

Another thing I did in my shop was to put in some screw in hooks for a heavy duty shower curtain. This also really helps to contain the chips when you have a job that is messy. I have a low ceiling so hooks in the joists works perfect and makes it easy to move it where needed in the shop.. If you are in a garage with a typical 7-8 foot ceiling you might need to get creative and add some sort of extension so the curtain hangs close to the grou d.


----------



## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> Maybe a bit late now, but I was given a great tip when turning cast iron. Get one of the cheap straw colored paint brushes (they are actually called chip brushes) and hold it or otherwise secure it behind the cutting tool to deflect the chips. I did this when I turned some back plates and it made a huge difference. These brushes are also handy for general machine clean up as well.
> 
> Another thing I did in my shop was to put in some screw in hooks for a heavy duty shower curtain. This also really helps to contain the chips when you have a job that is messy. I have a low ceiling so hooks in the joists works perfect and makes it easy to move it where needed in the shop.. If you are in a garage with a typical 7-8 foot ceiling you might need to get creative and add some sort of extension so the curtain hangs close to the grou d.



Not late at all!  Great ideas!!  I will implement both.  Anything to contain the mess this is going to make.  Will take photos because that is going to look funny as heck.... me working behind a shower curtain with the lathe in the garage... that is going to look hilarious.   

Thank you for the ideas!

And this is what the area the lathe is in, looks like...  







I really need to take time to clean up and organize all this carp...   I need to start getting rid of old motorcycle parts, and stuff that is just not going to get used... letting go is so hard to do...


----------



## Aaron_W

The way I have mine set up the curtain is about where that 3rd grout line is in your tile, well out of my way for working, and 90% or so of the chips that make it to the curtain fall straight down instead of flying all over the shop. Cast iron is about the only thing I've turned that needs it, most other materials being much better behaved and falling into the chip tray or on the floor close to the lathe.

I also use the curtain when using the mill, because mills fling stuff everywhere, but I run it in an L shape around the mill. It is in a corner so the walls catch stuff going the other way.

You can get a heavy 8 or 10ga commercial shower curtain 6ft wide for about $15. These are very thick for shower curtains, 8ga is 0.2mm and 10ga is 0.25 mm.

I got the idea from somebody else here who was showing a picture of their set up, works great. With my low ceiling it is easy to set up or move the curtain as needed, higher ceilings might take more creativity. It theory hot metal will melt the plastic and stick but I've only had a couple of extra large chips off the mill do this and they were easily brushed off with a wisk broom.


----------



## wachuko

Low ceiling in my garage, so that suggestion is going to work out great.  I will try to find it locally.  Thanks again.


----------



## wachuko

This was easy... Took it to the mill for the slot and then drilled and used a 5mm tap for the threads...











Nothing else to do but to start bringing it to correct dimensions... I need to get the shower curtain first... I already have the brush and will make a mount for putting it on a magnetic base...


----------



## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> Maybe a bit late now, but I was given a great tip when turning cast iron. Get one of the cheap straw colored paint brushes (they are actually called chip brushes) and hold it or otherwise secure it behind the cutting tool to deflect the chips. I did this when I turned some back plates and it made a huge difference. These brushes are also handy for general machine clean up as well.


THANK YOU!!!  This is working great!!  No need for anything else at this moment... already 1/2" down... Easy peasy...  Speed at the lowest setting (in the chart is 120 rpms, in reality, measure with the rpm display, is 145 rpms)... and slow manual feed.  
















And I also covered the lead screw with some split wire loom...


----------



## Aaron_W

I think John York (Benmychree) gave me the tip about the chip brush. 

Before the brush I found turning cast iron was kind of like staring into a sand blaster.


----------



## Alcap

In my garage I picked up some white tarps to separate the machining areas for vehicles. A steel cable/turnbuckle made it like a shower curtain. I got mine from Home Depot, there are many places , the ones with more grommets cost more but make a neater job . https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sigman-...VCqbICh0h6gJAEAsYBCABEgLLyfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


----------



## wachuko

One thing that I forgot to mentioned... I started with an HSS tool bit and the backplate did not like that at all... looking in the pile of tools that I got with the lathe, there were a couple of cutters that had a tip on them.... searching for similar photos, turned out those are carbide brazed tipped tool bits.  That also made a significant difference...


----------



## WobblyHand

wachuko said:


> One thing that I forgot to mentioned... I started with an HSS tool bit and the backplate did not like that at all... looking in the pile of tools that I got with the lathe, there were a couple of cutters that had a tip on them.... searching for similar photos, turned out those are carbide brazed tipped tool bits.  That also made a significant difference...


From my understanding you need to go very slow for cast iron with HSS.  Need to keep the SFM to 50-60.  SFM = RPM * pi * D/12.  D is the diameter in inches & 12 converts from inches to feet.  Solving for RPM = 12 * SFM / (pi * D) = 12 * 50 / (3.14 * 6) = 31.8 RPM.  I'd bet you were going a lot faster than that!  Didn't you say your minimum RPM was 100?  Way too fast for HSS and 6" cast iron.


----------



## wachuko

WobblyHand said:


> From my understanding you need to go very slow for cast iron with HSS.  Need to keep the SFM to 50-60.  SFM = RPM * pi * D/12.  D is the diameter in inches & 12 converts from inches to feet.  Solving for RPM = 12 * SFM / (pi * D) = 12 * 50 / (3.14 * 6) = 31.8 RPM.  I'd bet you were going a lot faster than that!  Didn't you say your minimum RPM was 100?  Way too fast for HSS and 6" cast iron.



Correct.  On the chart that the lathe has for the speed combinations, the slowest it would go is 120.  Measured by the RPM display, it is actually going at 145 rpms...   So very fortunate the lathe came with those tool bits with the carbide tip brazed on them...

I am taking very small cuts... this will take me awhile, but it is working so far...

Red lines show where I need to get to... not to scale, of course...lol







Tool bit I have been using...






And got this cheap set today to test...






Thinking of taking a break from reducing the outer diameter and working on reducing the inner diameter... that is the section that goes into the recess on the chuck...  Yeah, I just want to try using a different tool bit, hehehehe


----------



## WobblyHand

wachuko said:


> This was easy... Took it to the mill for the slot and then drilled and used a 5mm tap for the threads...
> 
> View attachment 380014
> 
> 
> View attachment 380015
> 
> 
> Nothing else to do but to start bringing it to correct dimensions... I need to get the shower curtain first... I already have the brush and will make a mount for putting it on a magnetic base...


Why did you do this?  Are you planning to reverse turn?  

I'm looking at another lathe, and it has a similar threaded connection.  Was wondering if something like this could be used for reverse thread cutting or not.  I've single pointed internal threads with a left hand tool and the lathe in reverse.  That way the tool goes away from the chuck.  A lot less frightening, especially if there's an internal stop.


----------



## wachuko

You speak to me as if I knew what I was doing  ...

The other chuck had it... so I made this one the same.  That is as far as I can explain my reasoning for doing that modification, lol...


----------



## WobblyHand

wachuko said:


> You speak to me as if I knew what I was doing  ...
> 
> The other chuck had it... so I made this one the same.  That is as far as I can explain my reasoning for doing that modification, lol...


Oh, how disillusioning!   I thought maybe you had a good reason for it.


----------



## wachuko

Working the inner section… Look! A mechanical DRO


----------



## WobblyHand

wachuko said:


> Working the inner section… Look! A mechanical DRO
> 
> 
> View attachment 380146


For the future, you should attach the mag base to either the headstock, or the ways.  If the lathe shifts relative to the table you lose precision.  Far more accurate if the base is attached to the headstock.  The base may stick right through the label on the front.  On top is a better bet if your Noga (clone?) can reach that far.


----------



## wachuko

WobblyHand said:


> For the future, you should attach the mag base to either the headstock, or the ways.  If the lathe shifts relative to the table you lose precision.  Far more accurate if the base is attached to the headstock.  The base may stick right through the label on the front.  On top is a better bet if your Noga (clone?) can reach that far.


Lathe is bolted through the top of the bench… is not moving… 

But I do plan on making the mods @Steve-F  made to install the dial indicators right on the lathe… he shared photos on this thread.


----------



## WobblyHand

Not to be a wise guy, but what is the bench made out of?  If wood, it's moving   Seriously, it is better to attach the indicator on the headstock. Probably no better reference, assuming your bearings are ok.


----------



## Aukai

I do mine up like this for zeroing, I have a micrometer stop.


----------



## wachuko

WobblyHand said:


> Not to be a wise guy, but what is the bench made out of?  If wood, it's moving   Seriously, it is better to attach the indicator on the headstock. Probably no better reference, assuming your bearings are ok.



Understood.  I will try to do that next time.  I am working within a very limited amount of space and placing it on the metal bench top (the countertop is actually a wood panel that is covered with sheetmetal).  I really did not take the time to figure out a way to place it on the lathe... I took the easy way out this time.

Hopefully, after all this is done, I will be making mounts, for both axis, to mount dedicated dials, like what Steve did.

The good news is that one task is done.  I can install the chuck... a good and snug fit.






Next task is to finish bringing the outside diameter to size... 






Then I will need to figure out how to locate/mark the holes... that is going to be fun...

Took the time to clean everything...






Will cover everything again and do the rest of the cutting...






That is all for tonight...


----------



## WobblyHand

To mark the holes, use transfer screws.  Screw them into the chuck and have the point facing towards the plate.  Only have the points just barely sticking out.  Push chuck onto plate and tap with hammer to have the screw points make a mark.  Now you know where to drill.  You can buy the screws, or you can make them.  The ones you make won't be as good (hard), but they will be just fine for a single use.  And think about how you will extract them!  If you file flats on the threads on two sides you can get a pair of fine tweezers in to get the screw out.  (For a blind hole.)


----------



## wachuko

WobblyHand said:


> To mark the holes, use transfer screws.  Screw them into the chuck and have the point facing towards the plate.  Only have the points just barely sticking out.  Push chuck onto plate and tap with hammer to have the screw points make a mark.  Now you know where to drill.  You can buy the screws, or you can make them.  The ones you make won't be as good (hard), but they will be just fine for a single use.  And think about how you will extract them!  If you file flats on the threads on two sides you can get a pair of fine tweezers in to get the screw out.  (For a blind hole.)



Great idea!!!  Did not even know those existed!  

Ordered!!  They should be here tomorrow!  

HHIP 3601-1008 7 Piece Transfer Screw Set, M8 X 1.25


----------



## WobblyHand

Don't beat on these guys.  They are only designed to make a light mark.  If you need a deeper mark, use a center or pointed punch later.  They are perfect for something like this.


----------



## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> Great idea!!!  Did not even know those existed!
> 
> Ordered!!  They should be here tomorrow!
> 
> HHIP 3601-1008 7 Piece Transfer Screw Set, M8 X 1.25
> 
> View attachment 380245



Yes super handy. I don't use mine a lot but they are just the thing when I need them.


----------



## wachuko

I took it down short of a few thousands...






To leave me some material to try to get a better finish...







Increased the speed, slowed down the feed rate (doing it all manually, of course)... and got much better finish on the part...






Done for now... just waiting on the transfer screws to mark the hole locations...






Everything cleaned again... that is all for tonight...


----------



## wachuko

These little guys are awesome!!
















To the mill!!  Let's drill those holes and counterbores and be done!!


----------



## wachuko

Done...






And placed this on it... practiced centering the piece... machined it... then removed it... and installed it again.






It took me awhile to center it both times... Is going to take me a lot of practice to get use to doing this.  I plan to leave the 4-jaw chuck in place for now just to practice centering parts/stock...


----------



## jwmelvin

Nice work on the backing plate. It takes some practice to develop the 4-jaw technique that works for you. I’m certainly still working on it.


----------



## Steve-F

Nice Job there!!! Well done!


----------



## wachuko

Working on making the mounts for the dial indicators.  I have some 80/20 material that I might be able to use for this... just need to see what size would work best for this... I have some 20mm x 20mm, 20mm x 40mm...






Looking at @Steve-F 's photos... I see that the backsplash on his lathe is located farther from the lathe than mine... I do not have space there to place the dial indicator...  I need to figure out an elegant way to move the backsplash out.






On the other side, looks like it might be easier... even if our setups are different...


----------



## wachuko

Figured I would update here... so in this thread I shared that I could not make the radius cut in this little lathe on a 5/8" stock... the tool would dig into the material because the lathe was not rigid enough...

Turns out that the problem, as most of the time with my projects, was the nut behind the wheel... It was user error all along.

The carriage was not tighten correctly against the bed... way too loose...  

So I tighten everything and guess what!?















Then I went and got the same cutting tool I used before... the one on the left side in this photo...






And sure enough... worked without issues...










I know it shows shatter in that photo... that was me as well... I started to play with the height of the tool and took another pass... I should have taken a photo before, but anyway,  just a quick pass of emery cloth and take a look...







I know that I have said many times that if I find a small Atlas lathe, I will sell this one.  Simply because of looks.  I just love how the small Atlas/Craftsman, South Bend, Logan  looks...   But this little lathe has grown on me... I might just stop looking for that Atlas/Logan...


----------



## wachuko

Okay... had to do the other end to be able to show that I can get it done without shatter... photos as of finalizing the cut... no emery cloth nor sandpaper was used in the making of this part 










I am going to look for a more sturdy workbench and move it over... this puppy is not leaving me.


----------



## Steve-F

Now you're talking!


----------



## WobblyHand

Whereas these aren't big lathes, if they are well setup, they're ok.  Glad you got the side plates tightened up, they help a lot when tightened.  

I've started machining a 6 bolt compound clamp for mine.  Hope it helps improve the compound rigidity some.  If nothing else, I can at least try out my rotary table while machining the compound clamp.


----------



## wachuko

I also found a Delta wood lathe for sale... I just want it for the bench... hoping that it is better and more sturdy than the bench its on now... sucker just shakes all around... can't seem to be able to make it sturdy...






Now just watch me not wanting to take it apart after buying it... what is the likelihood I end up with a wood lathe and still not a bench for my small metal lathe


----------



## Just for fun

My guess you will end up with a wood lathe, on the bench that it is on.


----------



## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> I know that I have said many times that if I find a small Atlas lathe, I will sell this one.  Simply because of looks.  I just love how the small Atlas/Craftsman, South Bend looks...   But this little lathe has grown on me... I might just stop looking for that Atlas...



These 9x20 lathes have some deficiencies but they are better than many give them credit. I specifically got mine to tinker with, there are tons of mods out there to improve them, and the price I paid for mine I have no worries doing stuff to it. It was missing the change gears so is a perfect candidate for an electronic lead screw.



wachuko said:


> I also found a Delta wood lathe for sale... I just want it for the bench... hoping that it is better and more sturdy than the bench its on now... sucker just shakes all around... can't seem to be able to make it sturdy...
> 
> View attachment 412661
> 
> 
> Now just watch me not wanting to take it apart after buying it... what is the likelihood I end up with a wood lathe and still not a bench for my small metal lathe



Enjoy your wood lathe, it would be criminal to separate that lathe from the stand.


----------



## C-Bag

Aaron_W said:


> These 9x20 lathes have some deficiencies but they are better than many give them credit. I specifically got mine to tinker with, there are tons of mods out there to improve them, and the price I paid for mine I have no worries doing stuff to it. It was missing the change gears so is a perfect candidate for an electronic lead screw.


Absolutely, but the original it was taken from had those deficiencies too like no back gear or tumbler reverse. I got mine because it was a fraction of what they wanted for a real Emco or SB or Atlas. Completely tooled too! After reading all the websites I was convinced it would do what I wanted because it could be fixed(bad QC) etc. So it’s been very close to the perfect lathe for me having little $$ ,no space and no real need for a larger lathe when I get right down to it. If my situation ever changes my 9x20 will become my back up because more than size limits it’s been needing a lathe to fix/mod a lathe.


----------



## Aaron_W

C-Bag said:


> Absolutely, but the original it was taken from had those deficiencies too like no back gear or tumbler reverse. I got mine because it was a fraction of what they wanted for a real Emco or SB or Atlas. Completely tooled too! After reading all the websites I was convinced it would do what I wanted because it could be fixed(bad QC) etc. So it’s been very close to the perfect lathe for me having little $$ ,no space and no real need for a larger lathe when I get right down to it. If my situation ever changes my 9x20 will become my back up because more than size limits it’s been needing a lathe to fix/mod a lathe.



Agree, except for perhaps fit and finish (I've never seen an actual Emco Compact 8 to compare) the 9x20 seems to be an improvement over the Emco design, and actually a well thought out small hobby lathe.


----------



## C-Bag

Aaron_W said:


> Agree, except for perhaps fit and finish (I've never seen an actual Emco Compact 8 to compare) the 9x20 seems to be an improvement over the Emco design, and actually a well thought out small hobby lathe.


I’ve never seen one in person either but pics don’t seem to make them out to be that much different. I understand they are made to a much higher standard so I don’t think the difference could be fully appreciated until used. Looks can be deceiving.

Folks can have their opinions but to auto bag on HF is a mystery to me. If there was something equivalent for the same price I’d buy it. But in the 9x range around here is stuff that’s worn out and because it’s got a tag from the hobbyist American wet dream list is 3x’s the price. What’s funny is when I see a 9x with a different paint job/name tag with that same 3x’s $$$.


----------



## wachuko

Back... turns out this wood lathe was 10 minutes from the house in Ocala... so leaving it here instead of taking it with me to Orlando...

Of course it was pouring when I went to pick it up... wrapped as much as I could with a tarp and headed home... Sprayed some WD-40 followed with a wipe and then some way oil everywhere... 

I did not grasp, from the photos, the width of the table.  It is not that wide at all...  Turns out this was from the grandfather of the seller... I am thinking this lathe is from around the 1960's... will check in the other forum to see if I can decipher the serial number...

































Not really sure what to do... I just need a solid base for my 9x20... this wood lathe is a great candidate for me to restore... even if I do not work anything with wood... 

Back to normal programming... taking a few work related calls before I head back to Orlando.


----------



## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> Back... turns out this wood lathe was 10 minutes from the house in Ocala... so leaving it here instead of taking it with me to Orlando...
> 
> Of course it was pouring when I went to pick it up... wrapped as much as I could with a tarp and headed home... Sprayed some WD-40 followed with a wipe and then some way oil everywhere...
> 
> I did not grasp, from the photos, the width of the table.  It is not that wide at all...  Turns out this was from the grandfather of the seller... I am thinking this lathe is from around the 1960's... will check in the other forum to see if I can decipher the serial number...
> 
> View attachment 412701
> 
> 
> View attachment 412710
> 
> 
> View attachment 412702
> 
> View attachment 412706
> 
> View attachment 412707
> 
> View attachment 412708
> 
> View attachment 412709
> 
> 
> Not really sure what to do... I just need a solid base for my 9x20... this wood lathe is a great candidate for me to restore... even if I do not work anything with wood...
> 
> Back to normal programming... taking a few work related calls before I head back to Orlando.



Serial number puts it as 1946. I'm not seriously hunting for a wood lathe but I've been keeping my eye open for a Delta like that, it would be a nice companion for my 1950s Delta / Homecraft jointer.


----------



## Aaron_W

C-Bag said:


> I’ve never seen one in person either but pics don’t seem to make them out to be that much different. I understand they are made to a much higher standard so I don’t think the difference could be fully appreciated until used. Looks can be deceiving.
> 
> Folks can have their opinions but to auto bag on HF is a mystery to me. If there was something equivalent for the same price I’d buy it. But in the 9x range around here is stuff that’s worn out and because it’s got a tag from the hobbyist American wet dream list is 3x’s the price. What’s funny is when I see a 9x with a different paint job/name tag with that same 3x’s $$$.



I like vintage tools, but I have added quite a few HF and Grizzly metal working tools to my shop. Most have perfectly good bones to improve on and are available at a nice price.

Speaking of improved HF tools, did you make a die grinder / table stand sort of like a die filer? I remember somebody posting one and it looked interesting, but I can't find it now.


----------



## wachuko

I am really thinking of just restoring it and see if I play with it... only paid 175.00 for it... and call me crazy, but love that switch and the vintage looks of it... 

I will keep looking for a sturdy workbench for the 9x20... not going to take apart this wood lathe...


----------



## C-Bag

Aaron_W said:


> I like vintage tools, but I have added quite a few HF and Grizzly metal working tools to my shop. Most have perfectly good bones to improve on and are available at a nice price.
> 
> Speaking of improved HF tools, did you make a die grinder / table stand sort of like a die filer? I remember somebody posting one and it looked interesting, but I can't find it now.


If not for HF, I wouldn’t have 1/4 of what I have. Most I picked up used for a fraction of what HF wants. I do so many different things that most things are not used often or heavy. Like with the HF 14” vertical bandsaw it has the same bones as a Delta, all cast iron. Picked it up for $50 and converted it to metal. Love that thing.

Yes, I did make a bench mount for my HF die grinder. As a matter of fact I just got through using it. Don’t ever even use my other die grinder anymore as I like this so much better.

Here’s pics of the die grinder mount and the bench I have for my 9x20. It came up on CL shortly after I got my 9x and has worked out perfect. Lots of ball bearing slide drawers, good length and depth and plenty sturdy.


----------



## wachuko

@C-Bag , interesting that you seem to have the same workbench that I currently have… mine is not sturdy at all…

I checked all the bolts to make sure those were all tight… even bolted a panel in the back that helped a little bit…. But the darn thing is still too wobbly…

Oh, and seeing a few modifications you made that I want to copy…


----------



## C-Bag

Hmm, sorry to hear that. I dunno what the deal is but mine came solid. It was used so I have no idea what the original owner did. It did have a heavy top too. Maybe a couple welds on the corners might do the trick.


----------



## wachuko

C-Bag said:


> Hmm, sorry to hear that. I dunno what the deal is but mine came solid. It was used so I have no idea what the original owner did. It did have a heavy top too. Maybe a couple welds on the corners might do the trick.


It is a different one… mine does not have ball bearings in the slides…






Also it is made from thin sheet metal… there is no welding this one…

I am searching for a replacement… just need to look for something without any machine attached to it


----------



## C-Bag

wachuko said:


> Also it is made from thin sheet metal… there is no welding this one…


Really, why? I thought that’s what a tig is for.

Mines sheetmetal too, probably 20ga? Dunno. I found a flat file recently and welded legs on it. I suspect it’s about the same ga sheetmetal. I don’t have a tig, just mig welded it with manual pulse. Isn’t stack‘o dimes pretty but the welds are solid. It has got to be the most solid table I’ve ever made. Had a bunch of 10’ sticks of rusty 2 1/2 square tube that looked like 18ga that I made the legs and supports for the flat file. It’s next to the 9x In the pic. It would hold up a lathe no problem but it’s too deep being 40x30. I’m thinking it would make a great table for scraping.


----------



## wachuko

I have a Mig welder… will give it a try.

I have a TIG welder as well, but never got an Argon gas tank for it and have not learned how to use it… so Mig it is.  Thanks


----------



## C-Bag

just have to make sure there’s no paint and its clean. You know what I’m talking about when I say manual pulse, right? I don’t even run CO2 on my mig, just flux core. Might want to practice on some scraps to get the pulse down. I couldn’t really do until I got an auto darkening helmet.


----------



## WobblyHand

wachuko said:


> I have a Mig welder… will give it a try.
> 
> I have a TIG welder as well, but never got an Argon gas tank for it and have not learned how to use it… so Mig it is.  Thanks


If you can, take a class at a vocational technical school on welding.  Cheap course, used to be free materials and you learn to weld.  I knew how to weld before the class, but learned to weld better.  We did all the processes, from OA to TIG.  You could bring in your own projects as well.  Was well worthwhile.


----------



## Aukai

There should be a table of wire speed, and amperage on the machine for different thicknesses of material. Mine even has an auto settings switch. Just stitch the weld together like a TIG pattern.


----------



## Aaron_W

I've seen several welded tube steel frame benches made to hold a tool box. Nice sturdy frame to support the lathe, and the advantages of storage for the box. I've become a fan of HFs US General tool boxes. Not the cheapest, but I think about the best value available to home shop guys.



C-Bag said:


> If not for HF, I wouldn’t have 1/4 of what I have. Most I picked up used for a fraction of what HF wants. I do so many different things that most things are not used often or heavy. Like with the HF 14” vertical bandsaw it has the same bones as a Delta, all cast iron. Picked it up for $50 and converted it to metal. Love that thing.
> 
> Yes, I did make a bench mount for my HF die grinder. As a matter of fact I just got through using it. Don’t ever even use my other die grinder anymore as I like this so much better.
> 
> Here’s pics of the die grinder mount and the bench I have for my 9x20. It came up on CL shortly after I got my 9x and has worked out perfect. Lots of ball bearing slide drawers, good length and depth and plenty sturdy.



Yep that is the one, I think I'm going to make something like that. I won't help in the slightest for motivation to build my die filer, but it looks pretty handy. How did you secure the die grinder to the stand? 

If you were so inclined to make a more detailed thread showing how it was made I'd be interested.


----------



## C-Bag

Any advise where/which sub forum?

the latest version of it has got travel stop and rack and pinion height adjust.

as you can tell is uses 80/20 that I had left over so that’s special.


----------



## Aaron_W

C-Bag said:


> Any advise where/which sub forum?
> 
> the latest version of it has got travel stop and rack and pinion height adjust.
> 
> as you can tell is uses 80/20 that I had left over so that’s special.



The tool junkies subforum makes sense to me.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/forums/tool-junkies-tools-tooling-love-tools-this-is-your-forum.29/ 

The project subforum would be another option.


----------



## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> I've seen several welded tube steel frame benches made to hold a tool box. Nice sturdy frame to support the lathe, and the advantages of storage for the box. I've become a fan of HFs *US General tool box*es. Not the cheapest, but I think about the best value available to home shop guys.



That is the one I was just thinking about... I like the idea of having all the tools, for the lathe, right under it.  I have gotten used to it.

Don't judge now, lol, I know I said I was going to stop looking... but got distracted and carried away and started to look for a Logan lathe... then came across these photos.  I like what this owner did. 











But I digress...

What were we talking about??  Yeah, right... workbench... I was looking at this one:






Placing a solid board on top and the lathe there...


----------



## wachuko

Well... this one was less expensive (on sale at the local Lowes... ).  Should be here on the 13.





EDIT - Changed my mind... wanted to have it today to take advantage that my brother is here and can help with with moving it over...  Went with the Harbor Freight unit... I will pick it up after work today...


----------



## C-Bag

wachuko said:


> Well... this one was less expensive (on sale at the local Lowes... ).  Should be here on the 13.
> 
> View attachment 412809


looks good. going to take the castors off? I would have to as I'm height challenged.


----------



## wachuko

C-Bag said:


> looks good. going to take the castors off? I would have to as I'm height challenged.


Not sure yet... I am not that tall myself... will know when I have it here later today.


----------



## C-Bag

One thing, you can never have too many drawers. That’s why I put the flat file next to my lathe. And why there’s two mid tool boxes under my RF30. With that tool box you should have just about enough storage


----------



## WobblyHand

C-Bag said:


> One thing, you can never have too many drawers. That’s why I put the flat file next to my lathe. And why there’s two mid tool boxes under my RF30. With that tool box you should have just about enough storage


Nope.  You will fill it up.  Trust me on this.   Mine is full, need another one!


----------



## wachuko

WobblyHand said:


> Nope.  You will fill it up.  Trust me on this.   Mine is full, need another one!


 So maybe I should reconsider?  LOL!


----------



## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> Well... this one was less expensive (on sale at the local Lowes... ).  Should be here on the 13.
> 
> View attachment 412809
> 
> EDIT - Changed my mind... wanted to have it today to take advantage that my brother is here and can help with with moving it over...  Went with the Harbor Freight unit... I will pick it up after work today...
> 
> View attachment 412811



Your need it now paid off this time, the US General are noticeably more solid than the Craftsman chests. Looks like the 44"?

My Sherline lathe and mill live on a pair of USG chests, the lathe on a 44" and the mill a 26". Ideally I'd build a tube steel frame that the tool box fits into, but second choice would be to build a tube steel platform attached to the top of the chest that the lathe can be secured to. Either a steel plate or plywood top on the tubular frame.

My 9x20 sits on a factory sheet metal stand, nothing spectacular but it does the job. I think the USG tool box would be at least as sturdy so long as you give the lathe a solid foundation. 

I'm thinking 1-2" tube steel frame secured to the top of the tool chest something like this.


----------



## woodchucker

C-Bag said:


> If not for HF, I wouldn’t have 1/4 of what I have. Most I picked up used for a fraction of what HF wants. I do so many different things that most things are not used often or heavy. Like with the HF 14” vertical bandsaw it has the same bones as a Delta, all cast iron. Picked it up for $50 and converted it to metal. Love that thing.
> 
> Yes, I did make a bench mount for my HF die grinder. As a matter of fact I just got through using it. Don’t ever even use my other die grinder anymore as I like this so much better.
> 
> Here’s pics of the die grinder mount and the bench I have for my 9x20. It came up on CL shortly after I got my 9x and has worked out perfect. Lots of ball bearing slide drawers, good length and depth and plenty sturdy.


I have that pencil sharpener on the left of your lathe bench... A engineering pencil sharpener...


----------



## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> Your need it now paid off this time, the US General are noticeably more solid than the Craftsman chests. Looks like the 44"?
> 
> My Sherline lathe and mill live on a pair of USG chests, the lathe on a 44" and the mill a 26". Ideally I'd build a tube steel frame that the tool box fits into, but second choice would be to build a tube steel platform attached to the top of the chest that the lathe can be secured to. Either a steel plate or plywood top on the tubular frame.
> 
> My 9x20 sits on a factory sheet metal stand, nothing spectacular but it does the job. I think the USG tool box would be at least as sturdy so long as you give the lathe a solid foundation.
> 
> I'm thinking 1-2" tube steel frame secured to the top of the tool chest something like this.
> 
> View attachment 412819


The toolbox is the HF US General 44", correct.

But wow! I was planing on doing this today! hahahahahahhaha... I would have to buy all that and build it and then... Wife is looking the other way and I need to sneak all this during the afternoon...

I was just thinking of using a 1.75" thick butcher block and bolting everything down to the toolbox... is this a good alternative??


----------



## woodchucker

wachuko said:


> So maybe I should reconsider?  LOL!
> 
> View attachment 412818


More drawers... more better.
I like mostly thin drawers.. I find the deep ones too common, and most things are better in thin drawers.. I like that one Jamie.. is that the type that you had to assemble yourself? Keith Rucker has under his bench similar, I looked up the price and said hell no... I could buy one welded for less.


----------



## Aukai

This is just my lathe station


----------



## wachuko

woodchucker said:


> More drawers... more better.
> I like mostly thin drawers.. I find the deep ones too common, and most things are better in thin drawers.. I like that one Jamie.. is that the type that you had to assemble yourself? Keith Rucker has under his bench similar, I looked up the price and said hell no... I could buy one welded for less.


Photo found searching… if I am not mistaken, that is a toolbox from Cotsco or SAM’s Club.

I will stay with the 44”


----------



## woodchucker

Aaron_W said:


> Your need it now paid off this time, the US General are noticeably more solid than the Craftsman chests. Looks like the 44"?


I totally agree. I have seen some teardowns of the US Generals, and they were painted inside and out, Craftsman not, Snap on Not. Kobalt Not.
They were the bigger units, but they were superior to most of them out there. I think the Snap On had them in steel gauge.


----------



## woodchucker

wachuko said:


> Photo found searching… if I not mistaken, that is a toolbox from Cotsco or SAM’s Club.
> 
> I will stay with the 44”


yea, you have to assemble it, and it's expensive. Keith said he would not buy them again.


----------



## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> The toolbox is the HF US General 44", correct.
> 
> But wow! I was planing on doing this today! hahahahahahhaha... I would have to buy all that and build it and then... Wife is looking the other way and I need to sneak all this during the afternoon...
> 
> I was just thinking of using a 1.75" thick butcher block and bolting everything down to the toolbox... is this a good alternative??
> 
> View attachment 412820



My only concern is how do you secure the lathe to that? The bolts will protrude and may interfere with the top drawer.


----------



## Aukai

HD has this 61", I have 2 of them. Husky as the same one


----------



## Bi11Hudson

C-Bag said:


> One thing, you can never have too many drawers. That’s why I put the flat file next to my lathe. And why there’s two mid tool boxes under my RF30. With that tool box you should have just about enough storage


There is never "enough" storage.

Re. The wood lathe. I'll come around to the metal lathe (HF) later. I have a Craftsman wood lathe that looks very similar to what you picture. Being Craftsman, it's a little smaller, and older (1936), and shorter. . . The stand is similar, wooden planks and steel legs. One must keep in mind that a 2X8 from the late '30s-early '40s is no comparison to a 2X8 from 1980.  Actually, the other way around. . . I wouldn't dare replace the old wood with new. You may be facing a situation where a previous owner did.

What I did do was true up the frame to my satisfaction. Meaning plumb and level with a carpenter's level, not a machinist's level. Then attached two diagonal tensioning wires on the back of the stand. Just stainless "lashing" wire, but enough for a lightweight machine. A simple toggle mechanism to tension them, and drawing up both against each other. They are attached to the base bolts of the lathe and lower shelf bolts opposite, and provide secure stability. Not much for shelf space below, but I need to (one day) redo the jack legged motor. One day. . . A couple of drawers are jerry rigged to the bottom of the upper plank. Wife uses it (well did, until I got her a Shop Smith) to make pens. I use it occasionally to make molds/patterns from wood. It was a "junkyard" purchase way back when I had *no* lathe, wood or metal. There was (in 1936) a retrofit kit that gave some primitive metal working capability. I don't have such a kit, and heaven forbid I find one these days.

Re. The Horrible Fright 9X20, or whatever size it's called this week. I have a Grizzly equivilent (G-1550). An older Taiwan made version, with a spindle nose of 1-1/2 X 8. I think the newer version (G-4000) has M39 X 4. Otherwise, pretty much identical. I had the HF version alongside the Griz for a while. But couldn't do what I had in mind and eventually passed it along to a friend. The HF machine was a little more of a "kit" than the Griz, but did function out of the box. To my skill level, any way.

The cabinet you pictured above looks quite capable. I do question the stability of such a box, but just a photo doesn't do justice to how stable it is. If you *had space*, I would have recommended a surplus GSA desk. I don't know the style or any background. All I know is that I have a couple. No wood, it's an all steel frame. Pop used to get them cheap as war surplus when I was a child. These days, a little more dificult to find. They are built like a tank. And heavy, a two man moving job.

My Griz is mounted to a base from Grizzly. Purchased before the advent of large tool boxes from HF and Lowe's, it was made for the machine. Everything lined up proper. I did have to extend the legs 4 or 5 inches. I'm tall, 6ft 3in. . . Used the same source for an Atlas horizontal mill. I have an old Craftsman tool chest, and it's full of heavy stuff. Like pipe dies and a power pony. But even the ca. 1970 tool box struck me as too light for machine mounting. Even a 6 X 12 was too heavy.

I have used a number of cabinet bases from W W Grainger for commercial use. They are strong, but Grainger is proud of them. I think their stuff is plated with gold. Sway bracing is an issue. The HF machine isn't so touchy to level in the supports, but movement is a problem.

.


----------



## C-Bag

woodchucker said:


> I have that pencil sharpener on the left of your lathe bench... A engineering pencil sharpener...


I've had that since high school. 4yrs of mechanical drawing. Still have the same Steadtler Mars mech pencil too. It lives in my leather shop apron. Kinda crazy to think I just got notice about my 50yr high school reunion. Can't live without my pencil and sharpener, reunion, not so much.


----------



## wachuko

C-Bag said:


> I've had that since high school. 4yrs of mechanical drawing. Still have the same Steadtler Mars mech pencil too. It lives in my leather shop apron. Kinda crazy to think I just got notice about my 50yr high school reunion. Can't live without my pencil and sharpener, reunion, not so much.


Mine is a Pilot H1005 vanishing point 0.5 mm point with 4B leads.  I do not let anyone touch that one...it is my second one as my first one snapped in two right after I got out of college (many, many, many moons ago)... so this one is around 30 years old (I should buy a spare just in case). Oh, and always the Mars eraser... we have several of those as my daughter also uses them...  I love using this pencil, but only do so in the home office when sketching out something I was to make/build...  Holding it now, can't believe it has not broken again in so many years... it is on the fragile side.


----------



## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> My only concern is how do you secure the lathe to that? The bolts will protrude and may interfere with the top drawer.


There should be enough space for those…


----------



## WobblyHand

Nowadays I use a rOtring 500 in 0.5mm.  If you drop it, it will land on the lead guide and bend it - I must have done that a few times.  Sometimes I can fix it.  Other times, well, I have to get another one.  I use 2B leads.


----------



## wachuko

My mistake... I just checked the leads I have... all 2B


----------



## WobblyHand

4B's are really soft!


----------



## C-Bag

Truly old school in every sense of the word.


----------



## wachuko

WobblyHand said:


> 4B's are really soft!


Yes! But they glide so well over drafting paper while leaving a nice and dark line…

But looks like along the way I changed to using 2B…and can’t remember when!! I am loosing my mind


----------



## woodchucker

I'll see your one pencil and raise you two.


----------



## wachuko

So those are mechanical pencils that you still need to sharpen the lead!?

I was not familiar with those…


----------



## C-Bag

woodchucker said:


> I'll see your one pencil and raise you two.
> View attachment 412844


I used to have a spare but my son made off with it and my sharpener for a while. Then he went to the fine line pencils because he said the old rotary sharpener was broken. It was the user, not the tool. Luckily I found it buried in the detritus of his room after he moved. I was glad I never let him have my old Mars as it would disappeared into the mess.


----------



## matthewsx

My dad used those, not sure where the sharpener got to but I remember it well.


----------



## C-Bag

wachuko said:


> So those are mechanical pencils that you still need to sharpen the lead!?
> 
> I was not familiar with those…


Yup, the round thing with the hole in the top is the sharpener. You extend the lead by the button on the end of the pencil and stick it in the hole and rotate the pencil. There’s a diamond coated cone inside that slides around and sharpens the pencil.


----------



## wachuko

Well, was not able to buy it last night.  Their system was down and I did not have enough cash on me to get it...

I did compare their Yukon line and the ones at Lowes (went there afterwards) versus the US General.  The US General is thicker gauge and with better construction.  Definitely the one to get... I will try again tomorrow...

Okay, but what really picked my interest from the recent posts, is that pencil and sharpener setup... I want to try that.. I am a sucker for vintage tools... and this is one that I can use often...

Found a few sharpeners on Ebay... and bought one...










Now to find a good mechanical pencil and leads that works with it...

EDIT: Well, noticed there are different variations of the sharpener... bought a second one that is slightly different.  There were inexpensive, so not a big deal...  Now I can have one on my desk and one in the garage...








EDIT:EDIT:  Well, if it works for @C-Bag  ...   Not risking it... just got the same one in a kit and some spare 2B and 4B leads...


----------



## Steve-F

wachuko said:


> The toolbox is the HF US General 44", correct.
> 
> But wow! I was planing on doing this today! hahahahahahhaha... I would have to buy all that and build it and then... Wife is looking the other way and I need to sneak all this during the afternoon...
> 
> I was just thinking of using a 1.75" thick butcher block and bolting everything down to the toolbox... is this a good alternative??
> 
> View attachment 412820


Yup, I have the same thing, works great!


----------



## woodchucker

C-Bag said:


> I used to have a spare but my son made off with it and my sharpener for a while. Then he went to the fine line pencils because he said the old rotary sharpener was broken. It was the user, not the tool. Luckily I found it buried in the detritus of his room after he moved. I was glad I never let him have my old Mars as it would disappeared into the mess.


kids... man they never learn the value of good things...   
That includes us, we're old and don't know anything, until they get old enough to realize maybe we did/do know a thing or two... but then we're too old and forgetting 5 - 10 things per day.


----------



## wachuko

C-Bag said:


> looks good. going to take the castors off? I would have to as I'm height challenged.


This comment kept me thinking... so I searched for alternatives to the casters that it comes with...  I will replace them with these...  This way I can move it when needed and then drop and level it in place.


----------



## C-Bag

wachuko said:


> Well, was not able to buy it last night.  Their system was down and I did not have enough cash on me to get it...
> 
> I did compare their Yukon line and the ones at Lowes (went there afterwards) versus the US General.  The US General is thicker gauge and with better construction.  Definitely the one to get... I will try again tomorrow...
> 
> Okay, but what really picked my interest from the recent posts, is that pencil and sharpener setup... I want to try that.. I am a sucker for vintage tools... and this is one that I can use often...
> 
> Found a few sharpeners on Ebay... and bought one...
> View attachment 412881
> 
> 
> View attachment 412882
> 
> 
> Now to find a good mechanical pencil and leads that works with it...
> 
> EDIT: Well, noticed there are different variations of the sharpener... bought a second one that is slightly different.  There were inexpensive, so not a big deal...  Now I can have one on my desk and one in the garage...
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 412883
> 
> 
> EDIT:EDIT:  Well, if it works for @C-Bag  ...   Not risking it... just got the same one in a kit and some spare 2B and 4B leads...
> 
> View attachment 412884


The sharpener is in the old original box, crazy.


----------



## wachuko

C-Bag said:


> The sharpener is in the old original box, crazy.


I know, right!?  

This is what I currently use (never mind the mess, lol).  Battery operated sharpener and regular pencils.  It is going to be great going back to a mechanical pencil and that vintage sharpener.  Really looking forward to it.


----------



## WobblyHand

wachuko said:


> This comment kept me thinking... so I searched for alternatives to the casters that it comes with...  I will replace them with these...  This way I can move it when needed and then drop and level it in place.
> 
> View attachment 412885


I bought some knock offs of CarryMasters.  The rubber feet are too soft, so the tool cabinet sways, ie, it's not rock solid.  This is with 350-400lbs in the cabinet.  I've heard that the CarryMasters are far superior.


----------



## C-Bag

wachuko said:


> I know, right!?
> 
> This is what I currently use (never mind the mess, lol).  Battery operated sharpener and regular pencils.  It is going to be great going back to a mechanical pencil and that vintage sharpener.  Really looking forward to it.
> 
> View attachment 412886


It will be interesting to see what you think. My son ended up with the little plastic sharpeners instead of the old cast iron one.


----------



## wachuko

C-Bag said:


> It will be interesting to see what you think. My son ended up with the little plastic sharpeners instead of the old cast iron one.


I am pretty sure that I will like it a lot... as mentioned, I am a sucker for vintage tools and using them, not just for decoration.

What I noticed is that the pencil I ordered is plastic.  I thought it was all metal.  So I went ahead and order the Staedtler 925 25-20 2mm as well.  It is supposed to be all metal (aluminum) and even the lead holder tube is brass... 










Pretty sure it makes no difference in use, but should feel better with a bit more weight...


----------



## woodchucker

Jamie, the way you use the sharpener is you extend your lead out quite a bit, stick it in rotate it holding the pencil, and when you have a nice point you retract the lead back.   I never go for super sharp, no tip lasts when it's that sharp, it's too delicate.  These don't break tips as much as regular pencils.  

I have a hint for you:  When I remember, I sharpen the other end of the lead before putting it in. So when I get to the end of the lead, I can flip it for one more point.  Because you are never near the lead supply or sharpener when you need that last little bit.


----------



## C-Bag

woodchucker said:


> kids... man they never learn the value of good things...
> That includes us, we're old and don't know anything, until they get old enough to realize maybe we did/do know a thing or two... but then we're too old and forgetting 5 - 10 things per day.


With my kids I’m always amazed they listen to me. I think the big life changing moment was when my son was about 7-8 and his crazy cousin got a bb-gun and was bugging him to get one too. She was the female equivalent to Eddie Haskell  She would talk my two into doing bad stuff and stand there innocent when they got caught. She also would supply my two with stupid arguments and lies when caught. It was the usual crap I used when a kid so I knew who the ring leader was.

We just want to target practice. I told him, this is what will happen. First you’ll set up some targets, then within 5min she’ll get bored and start wanting to shoot birds, then she’ll get you over shooting up grandma’s old car behind the shop. My son was horrified and said that would never happen. So his mom bought him the crappiest bb pistol at WallyWorld because I refused to participate in this fiasco. 

That night my son came to me and said “dad you were right. It happened EXACTLY like you said! When I tried to stop her from shooting the poor birds(not a hunter) she went over and started shooting the windows in Grandma’s car! “ Of course that’s when Grandma saw them because she came out to water her garden. Of course Edwina Haskell got away with it even though she was caught shooting the windows. She told Grandma right there my son talked her into it.

When my son told me he wanted to become and artist I gave him my old stuff and bought him the books and whatever supplies he needed. One day he’s working out of his first “How to Draw Marvel Comics” book and looks up at me with tears in his eyes and says “I’ll never be any good at this”. I replied with the old saw(which at 11yrs he’d never heard) art is 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration, it’s just plain old hard work. He sat there looking at me for a long time as the gears ground and I never heard another complaint. He would only ask me, now what? The big one for me was anatomy and as luck would have it the local bookstore was blowing out “ An Atlas of Anatomy for Artists” hardcover for $15! I didn’t know it was THE bible for anatomy. Took him almost a year to work his way all the way through that book all on his own. I think he was 13-14? Like his old man an auto didactic.  He went digital on his own working in the comic industry then went Indy. His weird sense of humor is his own and this is his YouTube.





​


----------



## wachuko

WobblyHand said:


> I bought some knock offs of CarryMasters.  The rubber feet are too soft, so the tool cabinet sways, ie, it's not rock solid.  This is with 350-400lbs in the cabinet.  I've heard that the CarryMasters are far superior.


Ohh... so these are knock-offs as well...  The feet on the CarryMasters are made out of ALDC12 (aluminum die cast).  The ones I linked to, those are made out of nylon. 

4 CarryMasters with shipping is, , US$272.65 - but even in photos you can tell the difference in the build quality









						Carrymaster AC-1300F Light & Medium Duty Flange Leveling Caster
					

Discover the CarryMaster AC-1300F, a Light & Medium Duty Leveling Caster, part of the AC Series. With a net weight of only 4.23 lb, the CarryMaster AC-1300F has a load capacity of 1477.1 lbs per unit. The load capacity with 4 casters is 4409.25 lbs. The CarryMaster AC-1300F is equiped with...




					www.zambus.com
				









Thank you for letting me know.  I will still give these knock off a try... I can buy all four for the price of one of the CarryMasters.  I know, that should tell me something, but I will give them a try...


----------



## wachuko

C-Bag said:


> With my kids I’m always amazed they listen to me. I think the big life changing moment was when my son was about 7-8 and his crazy cousin got a bb-gun and was bugging him to get one too. She was the female equivalent to Eddie Haskell  She would talk my two into doing bad stuff and stand there innocent when they got caught. She also would supply my two with stupid arguments and lies when caught. It was the usual crap I used when a kid so I knew who the ring leader was.
> 
> We just want to target practice. I told him, this is what will happen. First you’ll set up some targets, then within 5min she’ll get bored and start wanting to shoot birds, then she’ll get you over shooting up grandma’s old car behind the shop. My son was horrified and said that would never happen. So his mom bought him the crappiest bb pistol at WallyWorld because I refused to participate in this fiasco.
> 
> That night my son came to me and said “dad you were right. It happened EXACTLY like you said! When I tried to stop her from shooting the poor birds(not a hunter) she went over and started shooting the windows in Grandma’s car! “ Of course that’s when Grandma saw them because she came out to water her garden. Of course Edwina Haskell got away with it even though she was caught shooting the windows. She told Grandma right there my son talked her into it.
> 
> When my son told me he wanted to become and artist I gave him my old stuff and bought him the books and whatever supplies he needed. One day he’s working out of his first “How to Draw Marvel Comics” book and looks up at me with tears in his eyes and says “I’ll never be any good at this”. I replied with the old saw(which at 11yrs he’d never heard) art is 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration, it’s just plain old hard work. He sat there looking at me for a long time as the gears ground and I never heard another complaint. He would only ask me, now what? The big one for me was anatomy and as luck would have it the local bookstore was blowing out “ An Atlas of Anatomy for Artists” hardcover for $15! I didn’t know it was THE bible for anatomy. Took him almost a year to work his way all the way through that book all on his own. I think he was 13-14? Like his old man an auto didactic.  He went digital on his own working in the comic industry then went Indy. His weird sense of humor is his own and this is his YouTube.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


This is so cool.  My daughter is a visual development artist... Finished her Masters last year.  She is doing small projects for now until she finds a job.


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## Steve-F




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## WobblyHand

wachuko said:


> Ohh... so these are knock-offs as well...  The feet on the CarryMasters are made out of ALDC12 (aluminum die cast).  The ones I linked to, those are made out of nylon.
> 
> 4 CarryMasters with shipping is, , US$272.65 - but even in photos you can tell the difference in the build quality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carrymaster AC-1300F Light & Medium Duty Flange Leveling Caster
> 
> 
> Discover the CarryMaster AC-1300F, a Light & Medium Duty Leveling Caster, part of the AC Series. With a net weight of only 4.23 lb, the CarryMaster AC-1300F has a load capacity of 1477.1 lbs per unit. The load capacity with 4 casters is 4409.25 lbs. The CarryMaster AC-1300F is equiped with...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zambus.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 412890
> 
> 
> Thank you for letting me know.  I will still give these knock off a try... I can buy all four for the price of one of the CarryMasters.  I know, that should tell me something, but I will give them a try...


Hey, if they work it will be good.  If not, use them for something non-critical.  

For mine, the top moves if I lean against the tool cabinet, which I find both annoying and distracting.  At some point I will replace mine, because when it comes down to it, they suck.  I will probably have to make a new adapter plate for the bottom as the decent casters probably have a totally different hole pattern.  Here's a bit of advice, if you can do this.  Take out the drawers and flip your cabinet over, and fit your casters/CarryMasters.  You may find you need to make an adapter plate.  It's a lot easier to do this when you can see everything!  Let's say that I did it the other and harder way!


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## C-Bag

WobblyHand said:


> Hey, if they work it will be good.  If not, use them for something non-critical.
> 
> For mine, the top moves if I lean against the tool cabinet, which I find both annoying and distracting.  At some point I will replace mine, because when it comes down to it, they suck.  I will probably have to make a new adapter plate for the bottom as the decent casters probably have a totally different hole pattern.  Here's a bit of advice, if you can do this.  Take out the drawers and flip your cabinet over, and fit your casters/CarryMasters.  You may find you need to make an adapter plate.  It's a lot easier to do this when you can see everything!  Let's say that I did it the other and harder way!


Can you say exactly what sux about them specifically? I remember you saying the pad was soft….is the frame loose? Nothing that can’t be fixed? My 9x20, surface plate and the new flat file are the only tools not on castors, on purpose.


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## wachuko

C-Bag said:


> Can you say exactly what sux about them specifically? I remember you saying the pad was soft….is the frame loose? Nothing that can’t be fixed? My 9x20, surface plate and the new flat file are the only tools not on castors, on purpose.


I am thinking, worse case scenario, I make those pads out of aluminum... well, worse case scenario I buy original CarryMasters if these do not work out...


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## C-Bag

wachuko said:


> well, worse case scenario I buy original CarryMasters if these do not work out...


at $280 for a set my scarce hard earned $$ can go to much better use. Yeah, I’m cheap. I bought some scaffold double locking castors to put under my antique screw press and there is no movement/wobble once set. They were 1/3 of the $$. I guess I’m glad the OO figured out how to make that bench for the 9x20 not wobble before I found it on CL.


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## wachuko

C-Bag said:


> at $280 for a set my scarce hard earned $$ can go to much better use. Yeah, I’m cheap. I bought some scaffold double locking castors to put under my antique screw press and there is no movement/wobble once set. They were 1/3 of the $$. I guess I’m glad the OO figured out how to make that bench for the 9x20 not wobble before I found it on CL.


I am guessing that for now they will work fine... when I finally move everything to Ocala, then I might just remove the casters and use leveling pads... and not even bother with something else.


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## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> So those are mechanical pencils that you still need to sharpen the lead!?
> 
> I was not familiar with those…



This style I often see referred to as lead holders, differentiating them from the more modern style of mechanical pencils. I recently dug out my drafting supplies and added some new stuff. I also bought an older 1960s engineering drawing textbook to help refresh my mind and they used the term semi-automatic pencil for this style which has a nice ring to it.  



wachuko said:


> Well, was not able to buy it last night.  Their system was down and I did not have enough cash on me to get it...
> 
> I did compare their Yukon line and the ones at Lowes (went there afterwards) versus the US General.  The US General is thicker gauge and with better construction.  Definitely the one to get... I will try again tomorrow...
> 
> Okay, but what really picked my interest from the recent posts, is that pencil and sharpener setup... I want to try that.. I am a sucker for vintage tools... and this is one that I can use often...
> 
> Found a few sharpeners on Ebay... and bought one...
> View attachment 412881
> 
> 
> View attachment 412882
> 
> 
> Now to find a good mechanical pencil and leads that works with it...
> 
> EDIT: Well, noticed there are different variations of the sharpener... bought a second one that is slightly different.  There were inexpensive, so not a big deal...  Now I can have one on my desk and one in the garage...
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 412883
> 
> 
> EDIT:EDIT:  Well, if it works for @C-Bag  ...   Not risking it... just got the same one in a kit and some spare 2B and 4B leads...
> 
> View attachment 412884



I just have a plastic one which is all they seem to sell these days, and I can't seem to find the old metal one I used to have. ebay didn't occur to me for some reason, off a shopping I go.

These guys make some very nice stuff, kind of spendy but they do have decent (15-25%) sales occasionally, I picked up the IRIS circle template about a year ago during a sale. It has proven to be handy. Like everything else their prices have gone up significantly, but the quality is very good. Also good for ideas if you happened to know a guy with some tools...

https://us.makerscabinet.com/


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## C-Bag

wachuko said:


> I am guessing that for now they will work fine... when I finally move everything to Ocala, then I might just remove the casters and use leveling pads... and not even bother with something else.


I’d be interested on a detailed review when they come. They don’t make good small double locking castors at an affordable price I’ve found. But I’m weird. I’m replacing most of my castors with cast iron wheels as they roll easier on cement. But I also keep the floor clean.


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## C-Bag

Aaron_W said:


> These guys make some very nice stuff, kind of spendy but they do have decent (15-25%) sales occasionally, I picked up the IRIS circle template about a year ago during a sale. It has proven to be handy. Like everything else their prices have gone up significantly, but the quality is very good. Also good for ideas if you happened to know a guy with some tools...
> 
> https://us.makerscabinet.com/


Wow, that site totally flipped my iPad out and just kept reloading over and over


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## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> This style I often see referred to as lead holders, differentiating them from the more modern style of mechanical pencils. I recently dug out my drafting supplies and added some new stuff. I also bought an older 1960s engineering drawing textbook to help refresh my mind and they used the term semi-automatic pencil for this style which has a nice ring to it.
> 
> 
> 
> I just have a plastic one which is all they seem to sell these days, and I can't seem to find the old metal one I used to have. ebay didn't occur to me for some reason, off a shopping I go.
> 
> These guys make some very nice stuff, kind of spendy but they do have decent (15-25%) sales occasionally, I picked up the IRIS circle template about a year ago during a sale. It has proven to be handy. Like everything else their prices have gone up significantly, but the quality is very good. Also good for ideas if you happened to know a guy with some tools...
> 
> https://us.makerscabinet.com/


Amazon has them at 1/2 the price... I must confess that I went a bit crazy... found them in blue, my favorite color, and ordered two of those as well... 

Staedtler 2.0mm Mechanical Pencil Night Blue Series (925 35-20)
Staedtler 2.0mm Mechanical Pencil Silver Series (925 25-20)

So I have one silver, two in blue... all metal... and 1 in blue that is plastic...


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## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> Amazon has them at 1/2 the price... I must confess that I went a bit crazy... found them in blue, my favorite color, and ordered two of those as well...
> 
> Staedtler 2.0mm Mechanical Pencil Night Blue Series (925 35-20)
> Staedtler 2.0mm Mechanical Pencil Silver Series (925 25-20)
> 
> So I have one silver, two in blue... all metal... and 1 in blue that is plastic...



I have the blue plastic ones, yeah, they have plastic bodies but that style has been around forever (at least forever as measured from my perspective). I also grew up with the classic Pentel mechanical pencils so plastic doesn't bother me.

Pentel P200


Weird that the link to makers cabinet doesn't play nice with an ipad, maybe try googling Makers Cabinet and see if it makes any difference? It seems like i stuff is very picky, maybe it doesn't like that the link was made on a Windows computer. I know my Wife's iPhone will occasionally ignore texts from my Android phone.


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## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> I have the blue plastic ones, yeah, they have plastic bodies but that style has been around forever (at least forever as measured from my perspective). I also grew up with the classic Pentel mechanical pencils so plastic doesn't bother me.
> 
> Pentel P200
> 
> 
> Weird that the link to makers cabinet doesn't play nice with an ipad, maybe try googling Makers Cabinet and see if it makes any difference? It seems like i stuff is very picky, maybe it doesn't like that the link was made on a Windows computer. I know my Wife's iPhone will occasionally ignore texts from my Android phone.


I had seen that Iris before... but it was too $$.  Beautifully made, but I could not bring myself to spending what they were asking for it... 







On the lead holders, plastic does not bother me, my Pilot is mostly plastic, but it has a nice weight to it, love that about it.  That and the fact that it retracts/hides the tip.  But it is .5mm... I had never used one with a 2mm lead... looking forward to use them.


----------



## C-Bag

Aaron_W said:


> Yep that is the one, I think I'm going to make something like that. I won't help in the slightest for motivation to build my die filer, but it looks pretty handy. How did you secure the die grinder to the stand?
> 
> If you were so inclined to make a more detailed thread showing how it was made I'd be interested.


Here ya go Aaron, hope it helps and thanks for asking.









						Stationary die grinder
					

I made the first version of this several years ago and being v1 it was more proof of concept. I used very crude v block clamp and a couple of 80/20 drops along with a spare 80/20 guide bearing in order to make the height adjustable. It proved to be so handy it made me mad I didn’t do this years...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## C-Bag

wachuko said:


> I had seen that Iris before... but it was too $$.  Beautifully made, but I could not bring myself to spending what they were asking for it...
> 
> View attachment 412895
> 
> 
> On the lead holders, plastic does not bother me, my Pilot is mostly plastic, but it has a nice weight to it, love that about it.  That and the fact that it retracts/hides the tip.  But it is .5mm... I had never used one with a 2mm lead... looking forward to use them.


Never seen that before. Saw it on the homepage makers but because it kept reloading had no idea what it was. Very cool.


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## C-Bag

These are not as cool as that iris, both made me jump on them when I found them in local antique stores. The protractor is a true antique, note the manufacture date of Dec. 2 (18)99. It was buried in a case with random stuff for $25. The other I think is Japanese from the 70’s. Actually used several times now for evenly spacing during layout.


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## Bi11Hudson

Any input from me is probably superflous, I don't take "pretty" machinery very seriously. There is a question/subject hanging where one is looking for drop rollers to lift, move, and then securely stop a machine on a table/bench. It strikes me that the rollers and feet do not necissarily need to be together. Go by Harbor Freight and pick up some 4 inch swivel casters for moving the machine. Then "finagle' a lifting device for the bench or whatever to lift the casters off the floor a quarter inch or so. It won't be pretty, but will solve the problem. . . cheap.

.


----------



## matthewsx

wachuko said:


> This comment kept me thinking... so I searched for alternatives to the casters that it comes with...  I will replace them with these...  This way I can move it when needed and then drop and level it in place.
> 
> View attachment 412885


I have some leveling casters (cheap ones) but for me I think the next lathe bench I build will have metal wheels and separate leveling feet. It's just too fiddly to spin that leveling wheel at the back of the lathe since mine is all the way up against a wall. Perhaps if I had easy access to the back of my machine they would be better but that's kinda why I need casters in the first place.

BTW, consensus seems to be that Carrymaster makes the best ones in this style.









						Carrymaster AC-600F Light & Medium Duty Flange Leveling Caster
					

Discover the CarryMaster AC-600F White or Black, a Light & Medium Duty Leveling Caster, part of the AC Series. With a net weight of only 2.78 lb, the CarryMaster AC-600F has a load capacity of 749.57 lbs per unit. The load capacity with 4 casters is 2204.62 lbs. The CarryMaster AC-600F White is...




					www.zambus.com
				




John


----------



## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> Serial number puts it as 1946. I'm not seriously hunting for a wood lathe but I've been keeping my eye open for a Delta like that, it would be a nice companion for my 1950s Delta / Homecraft jointer.


@Aaron_W looks to be from the 60's based on what I have been able to find... earlier lathes had a different tailstock... double ball crank vs a wheel... serial number plate changed over the years... 

I ordered two pulleys, a 3/4" x 24" shaft (to cut to length), oil wick material, etc...from McMaster to fix the mess previous owner did on the pulley/jackshaft...

What mine looks like...





Broken pulley...






What it is supposed to look like...






No wonder it runs forward when the switch is set to Reverse... it is being driven from the wrong side of the motor shaft.. 

Anyway... will not derail this thread any more... I started one on the other website to track this project...



			Delta-Rockwell Wood Lathe 46-460 - Old Woodworking Machines


----------



## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> @Aaron_W looks to be from the 60's based on what I have been able to find... earlier lathes had a different tailstock... double ball crank vs a wheel... serial number plate changed over the years...
> 
> I ordered two pulleys, a 3/4" x 24" shaft (to cut to length), oil wick material, etc...from McMaster to fix the mess previous owner did on the pulley/jackshaft...
> 
> What mine looks like...
> 
> View attachment 413382
> 
> Broken pulley...
> 
> View attachment 413383
> 
> 
> What it is supposed to look like...
> 
> View attachment 413381
> 
> 
> No wonder it runs forward when the switch is set to Reverse... it is being driven from the wrong side of the motor shaft..
> 
> Anyway... will not derail this thread any more... I started one on the other website to track this project...
> 
> 
> 
> Delta-Rockwell Wood Lathe 46-460 - Old Woodworking Machines



I was basing the date off of this list of serial numbers, but just a quick glance so may have transposed something.

http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/DeltaSerialNumbers.ashx


----------



## wachuko

Aaron_W said:


> I was basing the date off of this list of serial numbers, but just a quick glance so may have transposed something.
> 
> http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/DeltaSerialNumbers.ashx


Ahhh got it!  Then confirmed.  1963 - 133 5231


1963132-5001-133-9999


----------



## Aaron_W

wachuko said:


> Ahhh got it!  Then confirmed.  1963 - 133 5231
> 
> 
> 1963132-5001-133-9999



I was going off the 46-460, I guess that is a model number? That tag has had a rough life.


----------



## wachuko

All this talk and I never uploaded a photo of the lathe on the new bench... goodness...


----------



## WobblyHand

wachuko said:


> All this talk and I never uploaded a photo of the lathe on the new bench... goodness...
> 
> View attachment 413413


Looks too neat to use   Mess it up some!


----------



## wachuko

2" drop will be welcomed...


----------



## wachuko

Is this approach feasible?  Would it work?  Pardon the rough sketch... not to scale...











Only two of the four bolts align... not enough space to make a  plate to bolt down to then bolt the casters to that plate...


----------



## Steve-F

Sure, that would work just fine:<)   NIce drawing too


----------



## Just for fun

I agree with Steve-F, looks like it should work fine.


----------



## wachuko

Made them today… now back to Orlando to install them…


----------



## wachuko

Now installed


----------



## Stockyj

wachuko said:


> Starting a thread in the correct section after buying my first lathe!!  Thank you all for your feedback on the initial thread in the General Section.
> 
> Purchased on September 14, 2021
> 
> It is a Central Machinery (Harbor Freight) 9" x 20" geared head belt driven, bench lathe.  Built in September, 2006.
> 
> View attachment 378552
> 
> 
> Paid 500.00 for it with what you see in the photos (Craftsman bench included as well).
> 
> View attachment 378554
> 
> 
> View attachment 378545
> 
> View attachment 378546
> 
> 
> Manuals and original purchase receipt included...  There was also a printed manual for the Grizzly G4000 (better documentation).
> 
> View attachment 378558
> 
> 
> View attachment 378559
> 
> 
> And this, that I am searching to see what it is for...
> 
> View attachment 378547
> 
> View attachment 378548
> 
> View attachment 378549
> 
> 
> Everything looks to be in working order and in good condition.  I did clean it, took apart the compound, checked the gibs, and cleaned and oiled everything.
> 
> View attachment 378551
> 
> 
> Photo looking at the gears for the feed rate...
> 
> View attachment 378550
> 
> 
> And a recent photo...
> 
> View attachment 412892


It all looks great just the gears all look a bit dry, make sure you oil them all there are many oil points and don't forget the top off the head stock there is are 2 oilers for the main spindle bearings. Have fun.


----------



## C-Bag

Stockyj said:


> don't forget the top off the head stock there is are 2 oilers for the main spindle bearings.


Uh, you got the wrong lathe there mate, 9x20 uses grease in the spindle bearings and there are no external grease points.


----------

