# Craftsman 101 and a mystery machine



## Spajo (Dec 15, 2021)

A friend gifted two machines, a Craftsman 101 and a mystery machine. I want to determine how much of the Craftsman 101 is missing and or broken and after that figure out what to do with it. The images that start with C101 are for the Craftsman machine.

C101 issues:
1. Missing lead screw, and support bearings.
2. Carriage missing gears, handle, and other parts. Half nuts and indicator are ok. There is a shaft that fits the hole in the, but not sure if that is correct.
3. Not sure that the cross slide belongs with the C101 or the mystery machine.
4. There is no tool post, but confused about the odd clamp where a tool post should go. Does a cross slide mount to that?
5. Banjo and some gears to drive the lead screw, but is all the gearing there?
6. I got a box of parts which could fit either either machine.
7. Head stock OK, but front bearing appears to have been brazed and it has about 15 - 20 mills of play.
8. Pully and clutch system is missing and no motor.

Mystery machine:
Mx.jpeg is a side view. I has a lead screw, but no drive. There are no half nuts. The carriage had two bars screwed to it (seen in center of picture) and a homemade chip guard (left in picture) was attached. Something like a tail stock is seen on the left. It has a belt driven pulley to drive a rotating shaft. I'm not sure what that is actually for. There is a headstock which may or may not be associated with the mystery machine. Note that the bottom of this headstock has been ground off flat - well butchered actually. It can't mount to the mystery bed as is. Maybe the thought was to mount this head stock on the C101 because of the bearings?  Except for the base, the headstock is ok.

Can anyone ID the mystery machine?

My friend said that he had paperwork for me, but I don't know any more than that. I may get that tomorrow. 
In the end, I have a couple of choices. Restore them, adapt the parts to a home-brew machine(s), or find them another home.

Thanks in advance for any feedback and advice. 

Spajo


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## cross thread (Dec 15, 2021)

Hey Spajo , the first machine is an Craftsman 6" . The main thing about the 6" is it has bushings for the head stock spindle , it was over tightened and broke and then brazed back together and that was a waste of brazing rod . It's gone and that is that , sorry . The 6" is a nice machine , I have one and I love it . Anyway your machine is missing too much stuff ,  I would sell it for parts . Or you could get another parts 6" and make one good machine , the problem is buying one piece at a time gets expensive fast .  In the first picture the part you thought went to the compound is the vise jaw for the milling attachment .
The other machine I'm not sure what it is I don't think it is a Dunlap 109 but that is what the extra head stock is .   It looks very vintage and precision . I say precision because it has angled ways as opposed to box . That being said I would research it , you can do that here http://www.lathes.co.uk/index.html
I for sure would like to see you get a Atlas/Craftsman running , check them out here http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman6inchmk1/
I'm not the last word on this , just my opinion .
Good luck and keep us posted , Mark .


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## Spajo (Dec 15, 2021)

cross thread said:


> Hey Spajo , the first machine is an Craftsman 6" . The main thing about the 6" is it has bushings for the head stock spindle , it was over tightened and broke and then brazed back together and that was a waste of brazing rod . It's gone and that is that , sorry . The 6" is a nice machine , I have one and I love it . Anyway your machine is missing too much stuff ,  I would sell it for parts . Or you could get another parts 6" and make one good machine , the problem is buying one piece at a time gets expensive fast .  In the first picture the part you thought went to the compound is the vise jaw for the milling attachment .
> The other machine I'm not sure what it is I don't think it is a Dunlap 109 but that is what the extra head stock is .   It looks very vintage and precision . I say precision because it has angled ways as opposed to box . That being said I would research it , you can do that here http://www.lathes.co.uk/index.html
> I for sure would like to see you get a Atlas/Craftsman running , check them out here http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman6inchmk1/
> I'm not the last word on this , just my opinion .
> Good luck and keep us posted , Mark .


Thanks for the feedback. I'm not surprised by your assessment of the Craftsman 6". I would like to have one. And, thanks for the lead on the second machine.


cross thread said:


> Hey Spajo , the first machine is an Craftsman 6" . The main thing about the 6" is it has bushings for the head stock spindle , it was over tightened and broke and then brazed back together and that was a waste of brazing rod . It's gone and that is that , sorry . The 6" is a nice machine , I have one and I love it . Anyway your machine is missing too much stuff ,  I would sell it for parts . Or you could get another parts 6" and make one good machine , the problem is buying one piece at a time gets expensive fast .  In the first picture the part you thought went to the compound is the vise jaw for the milling attachment .
> The other machine I'm not sure what it is I don't think it is a Dunlap 109 but that is what the extra head stock is .   It looks very vintage and precision . I say precision because it has angled ways as opposed to box . That being said I would research it , you can do that here http://www.lathes.co.uk/index.html
> I for sure would like to see you get a Atlas/Craftsman running , check them out here http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman6inchmk1/
> I'm not the last word on this , just my opinion .
> Good luck and keep us posted , Mark .


I followed your link and found this -> Early version of the Dunlap 109 had double V ways.





						AA109, Craftsman 80& Dunlap Lathes
					

History and development of the Craftsman, Dunlap and AA Lathes and other machine tools



					www.lathes.co.uk
				



I may be able to pin down the date by looking at the gap between the V ways. Possibly before 1940. I also read that the headstocks on these lathes were pretty weak which may mean that the head stock mounting busted. And, some models were hand feed.


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## Ulma Doctor (Dec 15, 2021)

the second lathe is a AA Products, Craftsman 80


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## Spajo (Dec 15, 2021)

Ulma Doctor said:


> the second lathe is a AA Products, Craftsman 80


Thanks! I think you nailed it.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 15, 2021)

Yep second machine is an older 109 "the other" Craftsman 6" made by AA. It is kind of funny that they had vee ways because in every other way they are inferior to the Atlas made lathes.

Also agree with Cross thread with all the missing bits from the Craftsman 101, from a financial perspective it is basically a parts donor. You could buy a nice complete one for less than the cost of the replacement parts. Prices vary by region but around here it isn't too hard to find a good Craftsman 101 with tooling in the $500-750 range.

I think the Craftsman 109 lathes are kind of neat, but they are very simple and lightweight machines. The Atlas 618 / Craftsman 101 is a far superior lathe. 

The 109 lathes have a bit of a following, so the few bits and bobs you have are worth something. Take a look at ebay, I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't get at least $100 for them, probably more.


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## Spajo (Dec 18, 2021)

cross thread said:


> Hey Spajo , the first machine is an Craftsman 6" . The main thing about the 6" is it has bushings for the head stock spindle , it was over tightened and broke and then brazed back together and that was a waste of brazing rod . It's gone and that is that , sorry . The 6" is a nice machine , I have one and I love it . Anyway your machine is missing too much stuff ,  I would sell it for parts . Or you could get another parts 6" and make one good machine , the problem is buying one piece at a time gets expensive fast .  In the first picture the part you thought went to the compound is the vise jaw for the milling attachment .
> The other machine I'm not sure what it is I don't think it is a Dunlap 109 but that is what the extra head stock is .   It looks very vintage and precision . I say precision because it has angled ways as opposed to box . That being said I would research it , you can do that here http://www.lathes.co.uk/index.html
> I for sure would like to see you get a Atlas/Craftsman running , check them out here http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman6inchmk1/
> I'm not the last word on this , just my opinion .
> Good luck and keep us posted , Mark .


I disassembled the head stock today. It looks like the front bushing failed and the spindle is badly worn down - about 20 mills. I was surprised that the brazed bearing support help up to a few blows from a mallet. Some of the gears on the 101 are chewed up. So all I really have from that machine is a bed, a tail stock, a pulley or two, and a few gears.


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## Spajo (Dec 24, 2021)

cross thread said:


> Hey Spajo , the first machine is an Craftsman 6" . The main thing about the 6" is it has bushings for the head stock spindle , it was over tightened and broke and then brazed back together and that was a waste of brazing rod . It's gone and that is that , sorry . The 6" is a nice machine , I have one and I love it . Anyway your machine is missing too much stuff ,  I would sell it for parts . Or you could get another parts 6" and make one good machine , the problem is buying one piece at a time gets expensive fast .  In the first picture the part you thought went to the compound is the vise jaw for the milling attachment .
> The other machine I'm not sure what it is I don't think it is a Dunlap 109 but that is what the extra head stock is .   It looks very vintage and precision . I say precision because it has angled ways as opposed to box . That being said I would research it , you can do that here http://www.lathes.co.uk/index.html
> I for sure would like to see you get a Atlas/Craftsman running , check them out here http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman6inchmk1/
> I'm not the last word on this , just my opinion .
> Good luck and keep us posted , Mark .


CrossThread. I disassembled the 101's head stock and tested the strength of the braze. It seemed pretty solid although not perfectly straight. The head stock is cast iron not Zamak. Later models did have Zamak and for sure brazing Zamak would be a waste of time, but given that the head stock is cast iron (attracts magnet), do you stand by you thought that the head stock is junk? There are plenty of other problems


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## wa5cab (Dec 24, 2021)

NOTE:  "101", "109", and many other two- and 3-digit numbers are in this context only Sears's contractor codes.  In a broader context, "109" was also the hull number of a fairly well known WW-II MTB but that is another story.  However, when you write that so and so has or you have a "101" you haven't really told anyone anything except that Atlas made it for Sears sometime over the half century between about 1930 and 1981.  That I know of, Atlas built well over 100 different pieces of wood working and metal working tools all of which have model numbers beginning with "101".  AA or Double A Company did not make nearly as many but just saying that a "101" is better than a "109" is probably not a true statement either as I think that a 109.21280 is probably a better lathe than a 101.07300 and maybe about as good as a 101.07301.

But in any case, please don't come on here asking for help with your "101" or even with your "101 lathe".  The latter descriptor only reduces the list of possibilities from several hundred to around 50 possibilities..  Many of us are only or mostly on here to help but none of us have enough spare time to go through the whole rigamarole again for the hundredth time.


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## Firstram (Dec 24, 2021)

WOW, the thread title may have been a little vague but that's a little harsh. Good thing the OP learned what he had 9 days ago from a more helpful response or he may have mistaken his lathe for a WW2 boat!


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## Janderso (Dec 24, 2021)

Spajo said:


> I disassembled the head stock today. It looks like the front bushing failed and the spindle is badly worn down - about 20 mills. I was surprised that the brazed bearing support help up to a few blows from a mallet. Some of the gears on the 101 are chewed up. So all I really have from that machine is a bed, a tail stock, a pulley or two, and a few gears.


Isn't there a larger replacement spindle kit available?


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## Spajo (Dec 24, 2021)

wa5cab said:


> NOTE:  "101", "109", and many other two- and 3-digit numbers are in this context only Sears's contractor codes.  In a broader context, "109" was also the hull number of a fairly well known WW-II MTB but that is another story.  However, when you write that so and so has or you have a "101" you haven't really told anyone anything except that Atlas made it for Sears sometime over the half century between about 1930 and 1981.  That I know of, Atlas built well over 100 different pieces of wood working and metal working tools all of which have model numbers beginning with "101".  AA or Double A Company did not make nearly as many but just saying that a "101" is better than a "109" is probably not a true statement either as I think that a 109.21280 is probably a better lathe than a 101.07300 and maybe about as good as a 101.07301.
> 
> But in any case, please don't come on here asking for help with your "101" or even with your "101 lathe".  The latter descriptor only reduces the list of possibilities from several hundred to around 50 possibilities..  Many of us are only or mostly on here to help but none of us have enough spare time to go through the whole rigamarole again for the hundredth time.


Duly noted. I appreciate everything that I learn. For sure, my next post will have a clearer title. Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another.

Are your thoughts available in an introductory post that I have yet to read? I would appreciate a reference/link. I certainly had no idea that Sears the model number coding system started with a manufacture designation. It makes sense now. 

In my situation, there isn't a model number nor a manufacture label on one of the lathes. I don't know for sure that the headstock shown in image Mx.jpg actually goes with the bed in the same picture. Hence the term "mystery machine". I would say that the information I have received has narrowed down the possibilities and I am thankful for that.

Good point about one machine being better than another. "Better" is highly subjective and dependent on need. Since this post, my reading has informed me how much Sears offerings varied year-to-year.

Merry Christmas and a happy new year.

Spajo


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## vtcnc (Dec 24, 2021)

Spajo said:


> Duly noted. I appreciate everything that I learn. For sure, my next post will have a clearer title. Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another.
> 
> Are your thoughts available in an introductory post that I have yet to read? I would appreciate a reference/link. I certainly had no idea that Sears the model number coding system started with a manufacture designation. It makes sense now.
> 
> ...



RE: Mx photo…

I don’t think that is a Dunlap bed, the Model 80 had sort of like an apron that went to the bench top. No real space to pass through underneath the bed. With that said you may have at the very least a good bed to make up a nice center for checking runout and concentricity of your parts.

RE: Mx-head photo…

Definitely looks like a Dunlap headstock to me. I had one for years and everything at least looks the same to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cross thread (Dec 24, 2021)

Hi Spajo , head stock "junk" ? Unusable ? Maybe , maybe not . Obviously the two bores must be inline , depending on how big the crack was and how it was held in place when brazed maybe it's ok . If I was going to save the little 6 inch I would disassemble the spindle , check it over for any galling , how badly is it worn ? Then check the broken bore , if it's round (not brazed back crooked) then I would get new bushings  and reassemble . A note on the bushings , they are not supposed to be split and they don't need a oil hole . I think your spindle is overly worn as is mine  . I split (one side) my bushing and drilled a oil hole . This allows me to adjust the tightness so that the spindle runs good . 
Good luck keep us posted , Mark .


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## Spajo (Dec 24, 2021)

cross thread said:


> Hi Spajo , head stock "junk" ? Unusable ? Maybe , maybe not . Obviously the two bores must be inline , depending on how big the crack was and how it was held in place when brazed maybe it's ok . If I was going to save the little 6 inch I would disassemble the spindle , check it over for any galling , how badly is it worn ? Then check the broken bore , if it's round (not brazed back crooked) then I would get new bushings  and reassemble . A note on the bushings , they are not supposed to be split and they don't need a oil hole . I think your spindle is overly worn as is mine  . I split (one side) my bushing and drilled a oil hole . This allows me to adjust the tightness so that the spindle runs good .
> Good luck keep us posted , Mark .


I took the headstock apart last night for the atlas variant. Yes, the spindle is worn down about 20 thou and is really rough in places (galled?) I can see a bit of a gap (on one side) in the repair, but I have not made measurements. I'm not sure, but the front bearing material looked more like copper. It was split with a hole.

I'm definitely going to attempt a fix. I have nothing to loose and I will surely learn from the experience.

Merry Christmas to all.

Spajo


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## cross thread (Dec 24, 2021)

Down .020 , plus really rough in places on the spindle . It's shot . The spindle that is , sorry . A great once in awhile a decent Craftsman 6 inch spindle show's up on the bay , usually goes for around $100 . I wouldn't try to save your spindle . Let's say you found a good spindle and got it in your brazed up head with new bushings , things could go south and ruin your new spindle . I'm not trying to discourage you fixing your Craftsman 6 inch . If it were me I would be looking for a  donor machine , and make one nice machine . A couple of weeks ago there was a guy on the bay selling a large collection of 618 and 6 inch parts and whole machines , he's gone now maybe he will return . Are you familiar with the Atlas 618 ? Also on your 6 inch lathe does the cross slide lead screw have square threads or V threads ? 
As for your bushing looking like Copper , maybe it is but the originals are Oilite  , sintered bronze . They absorb oil , so there is no need for a oil hole . 
Merry Christmas to all .


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## Spajo (Dec 24, 2021)

vtcnc said:


> RE: Mx photo…
> 
> I don’t think that is a Dunlap bed, the Model 80 had sort of like an apron that went to the bench top. No real space to pass through underneath the bed. With that said you may have at the very least a good bed to make up a nice center for checking runout and concentricity of your parts.
> 
> ...


I did learn one thing tonight. The double V bed is 2.15" V to V. From the following page --






						AA109, Craftsman 80& Dunlap Lathes
					

History and development of the Craftsman, Dunlap and AA Lathes and other machine tools



					www.lathes.co.uk
				




"An interesting detail concerns the beds: those with shorter ones, whether badged as Dunlap or (later) Craftsman, had a gap between the top of the two V-ways of 2.50 inches while two specific variants, the longer 109.0702 and 109.073 models had beds that were narrower, with a V-to-V spacing of 2.125". Interestingly, although the "manuals" for this series mentions the 109.07** types, they fail to give separate parts numbers for either the bed or any of the other important items associated with it - the saddle, headstock casting and tailstock, etc."

My V-ways are 2.125" - exactly. The headstock just doesn't look like it ever fit that bed. See picture. When the spindle is centered, the headstock base is pushed over to the right, just barely able to rest on the back V (left in picture). Something isn't right about this.

Spajo


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## Spajo (Dec 24, 2021)

wa5cab said:


> NOTE:  "101", "109", and many other two- and 3-digit numbers are in this context only Sears's contractor codes.  In a broader context, "109" was also the hull number of a fairly well known WW-II MTB but that is another story.  However, when you write that so and so has or you have a "101" you haven't really told anyone anything except that Atlas made it for Sears sometime over the half century between about 1930 and 1981.  That I know of, Atlas built well over 100 different pieces of wood working and metal working tools all of which have model numbers beginning with "101".  AA or Double A Company did not make nearly as many but just saying that a "101" is better than a "109" is probably not a true statement either as I think that a 109.21280 is probably a better lathe than a 101.07300 and maybe about as good as a 101.07301.
> 
> But in any case, please don't come on here asking for help with your "101" or even with your "101 lathe".  The latter descriptor only reduces the list of possibilities from several hundred to around 50 possibilities..  Many of us are only or mostly on here to help but none of us have enough spare time to go through the whole rigamarole again for the hundredth time.


I found your post. Clearly, I should have read that first.


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## vtcnc (Dec 25, 2021)

Spajo said:


> I found your post. Clearly, I should have read that first.



@Spajo, Not your fault. There is a lot of excess information on the site, such is the nature of forums. It can be somewhat scattered.

Robert, you should write a book! Or at the very least we should try and consolidate some of your detailed write ups and stickie them for prominent viewing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Spajo (Dec 27, 2021)

vtcnc said:


> @Spajo, Not your fault. There is a lot of excess information on the site, such is the nature of forums. It can be somewhat scattered.
> 
> Robert, you should write a book! Or at the very least we should try and consolidate some of your detailed write ups and stickie them for prominent viewing.
> 
> ...


Actually, Robert was very helpful. I think my sloppy identification came from many hours on Ebay and watching Youtube. I don't think that is going will change for Newbies. So yes, something prominent. Another thing that I learned is that I tried to do too much in one post. That wasn't effective. Robert, thank you so much for all you do on this forum. I see your 'handle' a lot. Clearly you have the respect of this community.


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## Spajo (Dec 28, 2021)

vtcnc said:


> RE: Mx photo…
> 
> I don’t think that is a Dunlap bed, the Model 80 had sort of like an apron that went to the bench top. No real space to pass through underneath the bed. With that said you may have at the very least a good bed to make up a nice center for checking runout and concentricity of your parts.
> 
> ...


vtcnc:   I checked (RE: Mx-head photo) which you ID as Dunlap, the apron that is normally seen on the headstock was ground off. After inspecting the head stock on the other machine, the spindle shaft is worn out. I'm speculating that the owners were hacking the Dunlap headstock to either put it on the Atlas made machine or make it work on the double V bed. One other thing, I measured the spacing on the double V bed and it is 2.15" and it is quite long. On Ebay, I can see the apron on some machines that you refer to. It is integrated into carriage gear mechanism which is missing on either my headstock or bed. I need a few days to sort all this out.

Spajo


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## Spajo (Dec 28, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Isn't there a larger replacement spindle kit available?


I would like to know if there is such a thing. It would be a challenge to rebuild or even make a new one. A good used ones are hard to find.


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## vtcnc (Dec 28, 2021)

Spajo said:


> I would like to know if there is such a thing. It would be a challenge to rebuild or even make a new one. A good used ones are hard to find.



My Dunlap that I sold a year or so ago had a 3/4” spindle. I had to take a lot of photos to convince the hardliners that it actually was real. It appeared to me that the headstock casting was line bored, new sleeves pressed in and line bored again to 3/4”. There is enough cast iron in the casting to do this.

One of the common complaints and failure points on the Dunlap 80 is the weak 1/2” spindle. Because I never had one, I can’t speak to that problem, but I can tell you that the 3/4” was a good spindle. 

This would complicate your project, in a major way, but you would have a robust little lathe when you are finished. Worthy and capable of doing decent hobby work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wa5cab (Jan 2, 2022)

Firstram, sorry but you probably haven't read as many posts in as many lists from owners of various types of equipment sold by Sears as I have where the poster identified what he had by only giving the contractor code.


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## wa5cab (Jan 2, 2022)

@vtcnc, do you recall what the model number was of the AA lathe that you had?


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## vtcnc (Jan 2, 2022)

wa5cab said:


> @vtcnc, do you recall what the model number was of the AA lathe that you had?


I'm going off memory....109.20630


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## wa5cab (Jan 2, 2022)

No, that was the third of the four with 1/2" spindles.  Unless it had been modified, or there was a sixth AA model.  How about 109.21280?

Did it have a V-bed or an inverted semi-circle?


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## vtcnc (Jan 2, 2022)

wa5cab said:


> No, that was the third of the four with 1/2" spindles.  Unless it had been modified, or there was a sixth AA model.  How about 109.21280?
> 
> Did it have a V-bed or an inverted semi-circle?


Still looking for my old photos, but here is my thread from last year about this lathe prior to selling it.









						Craftsman/Dunlap AA Lathe Value?
					

I have a 109.20630. It's taking up room and I'd prefer it goes to someone who wants to tinker with it and small projects. I'm wondering what people think a fair asking price would be for this?  Keep in mind the following:  V-Ways are in decent condition, Had to make a makeshift carriage dial...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




EDIT: yes, it was definitely modified to take a 3/4" spindle.

Found my old photos.









						3/4" Spindle Modification for Craftsman/Dunlap AA 109.20630
					






					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## wa5cab (Jan 2, 2022)

OK.  Thanks.  I had it fixed in my mind that the 109.21280 had a 1" dia. spindle.  Instead of 3/4".  Glad that I don't have to change that to 3/4"!!


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## Spajo (Jan 2, 2022)

wa5cab said:


> Sorry, but you probably haven't read as many posts in as many lists from owners of various types if equipment sold by Sears as I have where the poster identified what he had by only giving the contractor code





wa5cab said:


> Firstram, sorry but you probably haven't read as many posts in as many lists from owners of various types of equipment sold by Sears as I have where the poster identified what he had by only giving the contractor code.


I'm for moving forward. First, nomenclature is important and it helps everyone to do it the correct way. How to educate newbies is another issue. I came in with a lack of understanding. 

At this point here is what I would do differently: I tried to do too much in one post. I think 2 and maybe 3 posts would have been much better. 

1. Craftsman 101.07301 would have been in the title of the first post and in the opening text along with other numbers. I would have asked about that lathe. What is it worth, should I fix it, and so on.
2. "Unknown manufacturer, but sold by Craftsman" in the title. I saw Craftsman on the chuck, but that headstock was butchered for some reason and not mounted to the lathe. I would have asked if anyone could ID the parts and does the headstock belong with that bed.
3. I have a box full of part - gears, dead centers, knobs, a banjo, and so on. I would ask which lathe do these parts go with?


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## wa5cab (Jan 3, 2022)

OK.  That all makes sense.


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