# Need general opinion of this set



## eac67gt (Feb 21, 2013)

I need a new test indicator for minimill and I was curious of the general opinion of this set Mitutoyo 513-528T. http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-513-...61456653&sr=1-32&keywords=dial+test+indicator

Thanks!

Ed


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## Ray C (Feb 21, 2013)

Offering my "opinion" but everyone's needs/desires are different... I'll offer my strategy when it comes to stuff like this.

I have several different indicators in different ranges of +/- 5 thou (reads in tenths), +/- 15 thou (reads in thous) and 1" (reads in thous). I have several of each; all imports most costing about 35 bucks each. Each came with a couple swivel connectors and maybe a small connecting beam/bar. As time passed, I made various other beams, mostly out of scrap and drops, to suit different needs and I just toss the collection of beams in a pan on my shelf. Those $35 units have seen daily use for a few years and all are still working perfectly. I test them in various ways each time I bring-out the granite slab...


If one breaks or starts running poorly, I'll take it apart, learn how they work inside, save some little parts and throw the rest in the scrap pile. If you purchase a high end indicator, they can indeed be repaired but, postage to/fro will cost about what you pay to replace with a new one.

Long story short... For 120 bucks, you can get 3 functional units -and making beams is trivial.


Ray


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## eac67gt (Feb 21, 2013)

Thanks Ray!
I was just looking around because I was going to replace that import you referred to, that I have, and started thinking. Thinking for me is dangerous and costly.
The other one hit the floor and hasn't been right since. I took it apart and played with it but it still isn't the same. Honestly it did work fine before so maybe I should go with your opinion and use the same thing like I was originally.
Couple other things that will get me to stay less expensive is I have a habit of dropping things and number two, and the most important, is my wife will shot me if I spend 3 times the money. :shotgun:

Thanks again!

Have a great day!

Ed


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## Ray C (Feb 21, 2013)

Wheew... i'm glad you weren't upset about my response as some folks have alligience of epic magnitude when it comes to stuff like this...

There are times when high dollar name brands are the only way to go. If I were a sub-contractor for a DoD project, I'd get laughed out the door if bid for a job and the onsite inspector saw me using "cheapo" tools and indicators. This isn't the case for home-shops and all 6 or 7 of my "cheapo" units have served me faithfully over time. I try to only comment on things that are relavent to home-shop environments as that's all I'm qualified to talk about really so, I didn't answer your question about that particular indicator but rather, passed on my home-shop oriented thoughts -and I'm glad you didn't get ticked off.


Ray


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## eac67gt (Feb 21, 2013)

No problem...I did ask for opinions. :thumbsup:


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## Ghoulardi (Feb 21, 2013)

Been doin this for 30 years. LMS has "interapid type" indicators for a good price. Way more versatile. Real interapids" are quite pricey. Don't care what Starett says, they ARE the "last word".


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## fastback (Feb 21, 2013)

I have both the cheap $35. as well as a few upper end such as Best Test, by B & S.  I have found that the cheap one has some side to side play which has been a problem.  I have some other old made in America indicators that I use all of the time.  It does depend on what you are doing and how accurate you are trying to get, but I tend to treat everything as being important so I use the best unit available.  If I didn't have them than things would be different.  Oh, the only test indicator that I have bought is the cheap one the rest were either given to me on came in tool boxes I purchased, I think I have 5 test indicators.


In terms of dial indicators I have a number of HF (maybe 4) that have worked out well.  I also have the more expensive dial indicators that I also use from time to time.  


So I guess what I am saying is if all you have is the cheap ones then use them.  If you feel you need the better units than by all means get one or more.  You can always save the expensive indicators for the jobs requiring more accuracy.  The choice is yours.


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## frankie (Feb 23, 2013)

I used Interapid to make a living for thirty five years. I still have the first one that I bought and still use it. They are a bit pricey around 180.00 from Enco but well worth it,
in my humble opinion.

frankie


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## Big_John (Feb 24, 2013)

The Interapid indicators are nice, but they are a touch fragile. 

Personally, I like the Brown & Sharpe or Tesa indicators with the dovetail mounts. Good, sturdy and accurate. The dovetail mounts are more versatile than the mount on that Mitutoyo. Look for the 5 series B&S.


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## eac67gt (Feb 25, 2013)

Well one thing is very true, my indicator fluctuated big time when the tip is wiggled side to side. It did not act this extreme when new but since I dropped it :yikes: it has never been the same. I did try and fix it but no success.
So after all input I received I decided for my needs as a new hobbyist I would just by an another cheap on. Hopefully this will serve me well but at least I will not loose much when I drop it again which I have no doubt I will.

Thanks everyone!

Have a great day!

Ed


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## Tom Griffin (Feb 25, 2013)

Ed, 

That a good quality mid-priced indicator, and a good value. The inexpensive imports might be a better choice for the home shop if you were looking for a dial indicator, but for a dial test indicator I would suggest you get the best you can afford. A dial test indicator like this is a delicate instrument and the cheap ones can be unreliable. If an indicator sticks, you won't know if it's giving you a true reading or not, which make it worse than worthless. I've worn out Enco's and Mitutoyo's, but still have and use all the Interapid's I've ever purchased. Also, the better indicators like Interapid are much tougher than the cheapies. I once saw one launched across the shop when the spindle in a mill was turned on with the indicator in it. The poor thing smashed against a wall, but came out totally unscathed. Try that with a cheap import. :yikes:

Tom


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## eac67gt (Feb 25, 2013)

Actually what I bought was not a dial test indicator but a regular dial indicator. I am still considering a new test indicator in time but for now the regular indicator will suit my needs. I made different holders to do the job with this indicator and it will work for now. The test indicator would be nice but have not really decided what to do. Money, money, money. Wife? :shotgun:
We have a indicator in the shop but after dropping my test indicator my son won't let me near his. Can't blame him. )

Hav e a great day!
Ed


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## DMS (Feb 25, 2013)

Personally, I would go for at least a 0.5 thousandths DTI. For things in the 1 thousands range, I just use a cheapo dial indicator ($10 on sale at HF). I spent a little more for a decent DTI (Starret Last Word). I love it. I know some folks rave about the Interrapids; at some point I will get a tenths indicator, and maybe then I will go for an Interrapid.

The Last Word set I have has basically the same stuff as the kit you linked, it's a 1/2 thousandths indicator, and was about$130 IIRC (about 2 years ago).


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## mikey (Feb 25, 2013)

I'm in the "buy a good one once" camp. The Last Word is a good indicator and very versatile; I own one and like it but I much prefer the Compac 214GA. Its a 0.0005" indicator, tough as nails and is very accurate and consistent. They come up on ebay from time to time and generally go for about $50-70.00 in good condition. My Compac has been going for 20 years and is as reliable as the day I got it - not sure a HF can do that.

Mitutoyo DI's are very, very good but I don't own one of their DTI's so cannot attest.


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## eac67gt (Feb 25, 2013)

I am going to back the truck up here and be stupid. I am real new to machining. What are the two, dial indicator and test dial indicator, really used for. I guess what I am really asking is what are the situations you would use one over other. 
Boy I hope I didn't open a question that is going to make me look really dumb. :shrugs::shrugs:

Have a great day!

Ed


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## Ulma Doctor (Feb 25, 2013)

eac67gt said:


> I need a new test indicator for minimill and I was curious of the general opinion of this set Mitutoyo 513-528T. http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-513-...61456653&sr=1-32&keywords=dial+test+indicator
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ed


i may be muttering words that have been muttered before, but it depends on the type of work you are needing the instrument for.
you will never go wrong in buying quality.
but for instance, you were to break out your high end indicator to do a run of the mill turning, and you drop and break it.
 it's worth way more than any simple turning that didn't need to be to the gnats @ss in the first place, but an expensive indicator was lost in the process... or with the simple turning that didn't need to be to the gnats' @ss, you get your import indicator and drop it,it totally gets messed up, a cheap indicator gets lost in the process, no big deal.
my answer is to have both...
 a cheapie for normal abuse when tolerances aren't critical
a quality built precision instrument for when the tolerances are critical.

my favorite pet indicator is an antique federal .0005", but she doesn't see much action.
 the starrett last word sees most of the action for my level of work when accuracy is concerned.
but for day to day abuse i use the shars' .001" 1" dial and don't feel bad about dropping it.
the funny part is , i treat the cheapie like it's expensive and haven't dropped it once.
i don't know how...
mike)


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## DMS (Feb 25, 2013)

Dial indicators are more linear, but less accurate. They have more travel than a DTI. Typically they read to the thousandths, and have travel of 1", but I have seen 2", and I think 3" travel ones.

Dial test indicators tend to be more accurate, but have much smaller ranges. They are not as linear (because the arm swings, changing the lever arm, rather than a plunger). They are usually used for very precision work. They tend to be more expensive. I have both, and both get used, but I got by with a cheap grizzly dial indicator for years.


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## Tom Griffin (Feb 25, 2013)

eac67gt said:


> I am going to back the truck up here and be stupid. I am real new to machining. What are the two, dial indicator and test dial indicator, really used for. I guess what I am really asking is what are the situations you would use one over other.
> Boy I hope I didn't open a question that is going to make me look really dumb. :shrugs::shrugs:
> 
> Have a great day!
> ...



The only dumb question Ed is the one that's not asked.

A dial indicator has a longer range and is commonly used to directly measure a move like with a carriage on the lathe. With a dial indicator, you can face the end of a part, zero the dial on the indicator and move over an inch or two or three to machine a shoulder. A dial test indicator will have less travel and is used to measure relative run-out when centering a part in a four jaw chuck or aligning a milling vise parallel to the table. A dial test indicator, or a dial indicator for that matter can also be use as to compare a feature on a part to a known standard, such as a stack of gauge blocks on a surface plate.

Tom


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## mikey (Feb 25, 2013)

Ed, one of the best sites for learning about these tools is the Long Island Indicator Service website. It will list most common tools available on the market and give you the pros and cons of each. I am not recommending you buy from them unless you have money to burn but if you do deal with them you will find them to be honest and of very high integrity. They'll even tell you that for the shop floor or rough shop use a "disposable" indicator is okay. I interpret that to mean a Chinese indicator.

As DMS said, DI's are used for linear measurements. An example of this would be centering a work piece in the 4-jaw chuck. DTI's are used mainly for checking alignment, such as squaring a vise to run parallel with the X-axis on your mill. There are numerous variations when each is used and eventually most of us wind up with at least one of each kind. 

How much accuracy you need is up to you. In a home shop a 0.001" DI and/or DTI is fine for most jobs. If you find you need more resolution then you can step up to those reading finer. 

My advice is to find out which instrument you want and find it on ebay for a fraction of its retail price. 

Good luck!

Mikey


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## Big_John (Feb 26, 2013)

eac67gt said:


> Well one thing is very true, my indicator fluctuated big time when the tip is wiggled side to side. It did not act this extreme when new but since I dropped it :yikes: it has never been the same. I did try and fix it but no success.
> So after all input I received I decided for my needs as a new hobbyist I would just by an another cheap on. Hopefully this will serve me well but at least I will not loose much when I drop it again which I have no doubt I will.
> 
> Thanks everyone!
> ...



What brand and model# is the one you dropped? I may be able to help.


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## eac67gt (Feb 26, 2013)

Hi Big_John,
It wasn't anything special but of course it wasn't free.
It worked perfect till it hit the floor.[h=1]TÜRLEN Precision TEST DIAL INDICATOR 7 JEWELS .0005" 0-15-0  AT203721[/h]Have a great day!
Ed


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## Big_John (Feb 27, 2013)

eac67gt said:


> Hi Big_John,
> It wasn't anything special but of course it wasn't free.
> It worked perfect till it hit the floor.*TÜRLEN Precision TEST DIAL INDICATOR 7 JEWELS .0005" 0-15-0  AT203721*
> 
> ...



Well..... I can't say I'm familiar with that brand. It looks like a Tesa/B&S clone. 

All these indicators are built very similar. There's usually a couple things that go wrong when they get dropped. Sometimes it's an easy fix and sometimes it's not.

First, does the indicator work at all? 

If it works, does it stick anywhere? Does the needle go back to the same spot? Does it "skip" as the needle swings around?

Does it make crunching noises as it moves?

Is there a lot of side play in the indicator tip? Is the tip loose? (you'd be surprised at how many people don't check this first)


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## eac67gt (Feb 27, 2013)

The main thing wrong is the end has sloop in it but everything seems tight. The bushings on the tip seem ok and tight. Inside evrything looks ok but then I have no idea what it looked like before. The one thing the drop did do was bent the needle but after all it just points at a number.


Ed


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## Big_John (Feb 27, 2013)

eac67gt said:


> The main thing wrong is the end has sloop in it but everything seems tight. The bushings on the tip seem ok and tight. Inside evrything looks ok but then I have no idea what it looked like before. The one thing the drop did do was bent the needle but after all it just points at a number.
> 
> 
> Ed



The indicator tip could just need adjustment. You can take up the slop with the adjusting screw. It could also be loose from a broken jeweled bearing. That happens....  But if it hit hard enough to bend the needle, then it's most likely toast.


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## eac67gt (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks for your input big_john. That is what I kind of figured....it is toast.
One day I'll replace it but for now I am just going to use the regular indicator and trust me even that is more accurate than I need for the hack jobs I do. :shotgun:

Thanks again and have a great day!
Ed


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