# What's it or how to use it



## dbb-the-bruce (Apr 18, 2019)

I've had my father-in-laws machinist tool box for about ten years. For about as long as I've had my Southbend 9A. My interests have evolved over that period - initially I used to the lathe for the production of mechanical wooden boxes - machining wood.

I've figured out most of the stuff in his kit - now that I'm getting a lot more into milling metal, there is more of it that will be useful.

So here are a few things I can figure out or that are puzzling in other ways. Hope to tap into the wealth of knowledge in this community.

First off, a set of clamps:



Not much of a puzzle what they are - however what's weird is the jacks thread in 3 - 4 full revolutions and then bind up quite tightly. So tight that you can't run them thru by hand. I haven't forced them. They clean enough that they should run through. It's possible that they don't go with the jaws but that doesn't make much sense to me. Why so tight?
Second question - what does one use clamps like this for when machining?

Second item:



What is it and how do you use it?
The ball ends and adjust-ability suggest that you can take and/or transfer measurements with it. 
There is a square flat bit on the (bottom) end for marking?

Third item:



Again, I'm just guessing - the two shafts can be screwed in two orientations. Could be used (again) for taking inside readings of openings, setting mill cutter height etc. 
Whatever - it's not obvious to me.

Forth item:



Parallels - with an odd profile?
They are about 6" long.

And finally:




I know that these are used on a surface plate or at least a flat table to measure or check height - but how and what are the typically used for?

Hope this is the right place for this sort of post.

-Dave


----------



## Holescreek (Apr 18, 2019)

Third item is a planer gauge, fourth is a set of grinding hold downs.  Planer gauges are handy for lots of things given their adjustability.  The grinder hold downs utilize their tapered edges to bite into/against nonferrous materials to hold them on a magnetic chuck.

Number one is a toolmakers clamp for holding non-parallel stuff together, woodworkers use them too.  I've got a bunch that I've rarely found a use for.  Number two is part of a scriber for marking parallel lines from an edge.  Number 4 is just some weird stuff he threw in the box because we all collect weird stuff in case we can find a use for it.


----------



## mmcmdl (Apr 18, 2019)

Parallel clamps 
Indicator bar for a surface or toolmakers gage
Planer gage - indespensible tool , use mine all the time .
Could be S/G hold downs but don't look like they are split or hinged . Maybe he used these as straight edges ? 
Home made surface gages for scribing lines .


----------



## dbb-the-bruce (Apr 18, 2019)

Surface grinder hold downs - Like this:



Weird stuff that might be useful (even if I don't have a surface grinder).
Still Googleing the other stuff.

#2 "part of a scriber for parallel lines" there is one more rod in the kit with a ball end and threaded hole in the other end. Doesn't look like it attaches the two parts pictured in any way but could be related.

Thanks for the pointers.


----------



## rgray (Apr 18, 2019)

dbb-the-bruce said:


> Surface grinder hold downs - Like this:



I have a set like that and was taught they are a small item hold down. They go in a vice kinda like you have them only with the part all the way in the bottom of the vise. 
The thick edge is not 90 degrees to the bottoms and puts a downward force on your small item when the vice is clamped on it. The part is then clamped both down and between the jaws.


----------



## dbb-the-bruce (Apr 18, 2019)

rgray said:


> I have a set like that and was taught they are a small item hold down. They go in a vice kinda like you have them only with the part all the way in the bottom of the vise.
> The thick edge is not 90 degrees to the bottoms and puts a downward force on your small item when the vice is clamped on it. The part is then clamped both down and between the jaws.


That second picture is just something I found on the web. 
I'll have to look into using them that way.


----------



## Holescreek (Apr 18, 2019)

Yeah, I was wrong about the "surface grinder " part on the hold downs, I've used them for that before but that's not what they were designed for.


----------



## dbb-the-bruce (Apr 18, 2019)

I don't think there are any more parts to the second item. If it's use for parallel scribing, I don't see how.

Did find a marking on it: 
"The L.S. Starrett Co
Athol, Mass U.S.A
Pat. Mar 17. 1896"






No big deal, but it's not a homemade thing.


----------



## mmcmdl (Apr 18, 2019)

dbb-the-bruce said:


> I don't think there are any more parts to the second item. If it's use for parallel scribing, I don't see how



It goes onto a surface gage and you can attach indicators and such to it .


----------



## mmcmdl (Apr 18, 2019)

dbb-the-bruce said:


> Surface grinder hold downs - Like this:



Ugh , why wouldn't you just put the piece in a vise ? No need for hold downs .


----------



## dbb-the-bruce (Apr 18, 2019)

mmcmdl said:


> It goes onto a surface gage and you can attach indicators and such to it .


That's so cool...
It's the shaft out of this:



Seems to be the only Starrett patent that matches that date.
I'm going to have to see how many more parts of it I have.

I just wanted to make stuff - and now I'm getting addicted to old-tool-forensics : )


----------



## dbb-the-bruce (Apr 18, 2019)

mmcmdl said:


> Ugh , why wouldn't you just put the piece in a vise ? No need for hold downs .


No clue what the intent was in that pic - just happens to show someone using a couple of chunks of metal I'm trying to figure out.


----------



## mmcmdl (Apr 18, 2019)

dbb-the-bruce said:


> That's so cool...
> It's the shaft out of this:



No **** !  That's what we told you !


----------



## dbb-the-bruce (Apr 18, 2019)

mmcmdl said:


> No **** !  That's what we told you !


Hey, I'm learning!  
I'll look for the rest of the bit's now, but I suspect it will just get re-purposed for something else.


----------



## mmcmdl (Apr 18, 2019)

dbb-the-bruce said:


> I'll look for the rest of the bit's now, but I suspect it will just get re-purposed for something else.



Use it for what it's intended for . If you don't have the S/G , I do !


----------



## francist (Apr 18, 2019)




----------



## dbb-the-bruce (Apr 18, 2019)

francist said:


> View attachment 292895


Thank you so much!
Book or publication info? 
"Machine Shop Practice, Trade Theory Series"


----------



## francist (Apr 18, 2019)




----------



## benmychree (Apr 19, 2019)

mmcmdl said:


> Ugh , why wouldn't you just put the piece in a vise ? No need for hold downs .


Why? because it is not easy to seat work in a vise securely against the vise bottom or paralells. Once one has used hold downs, you won't do without them.  I use them for milling and shaper work; as they told little Mikey, "try it, you'll like it"  Obviously, they are not intended for surface grinder use, that is a different design of hold down, made for magnetic chuck use.


----------



## C-Bag (Apr 19, 2019)

dbb-the-bruce said:


> m getting addicted to old-tool-forensics : )


The only one I didn't know was the hold downs and talk about timely(once again!) I was needing something like those just the other day and didn't know they existed. Just went to eBay and bought a pair of Lufkin. 

Good luck to dbb-the-bruce with the tool forensics. This site is incredibly helpful for this kind of info. I'm always on the lookout for machinist tools and often find old chests chock full of odds and ends. Most seem something they made for a job or for some process they did at the place they worked. No way of knowing without talking to the most times dead original owner.


----------



## benmychree (Apr 19, 2019)

So far as the threads binding on the parallel clamps, the clamp bodies were obviously tapped, and I suspect that the screws were threaded with a die that did not cut an accurate pitch, not matching the pitch cut by the tap, if the thread is cut for a close fit in the tapped hole, the pitch inconsistency causes the binding.  Pitch irregularities in dies are not uncommon.  Another possible cause could be that the thread was cut to a pitch different than the tap, or vice versa.  Try a good sharp tap, matching the thread of the screws in the holes and see if any significant material is removed.
The second item is obviously the staff for a surface gage, having the ball end and scriber on the opposite end, what the other part is, I do not know for sure, have never seen this part in old catalogs, but it may have been to mount a dial indicator on the surface gage, it does not look to be home made.


----------



## dbb-the-bruce (Apr 19, 2019)

Funny thing, I still figure out the first phots (clamps). Yes, it obvious what they are and how they are used.

The weird thing is that the threaded rods almost but don't quite match the threads in the jaws. I can get 3-4 full thread rotations and then they just jam up. Same results trying all hole/rod combinations and either side.

The threads match but not quite.

It seems that both are hand/custom made - so maybe the thread tuning job on the rods was messed up?
If so why keep them and not make another set / fix it?

Like you said, maybe I'll find out when I talk to dad in the afterlife!

(John York - our posts collided. I was planning on trying to re-tap or clean up the thread on the clamps. The question to dad is still - why keep them and not fix them?)


----------



## C-Bag (Apr 19, 2019)

Are the clamps Starrett? Starrett is known to have odd ball thread pitches that are not common. I guess just another excuse for proprietary exclusivity.

Mine are not Starretts but the jaws have to be parallel or close, or they screws bind. I don't use them everyday but they have come in handy enough that I'd not be without them.


----------



## dbb-the-bruce (Apr 21, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> Are the clamps Starrett? Starrett is known to have odd ball thread pitches that are not common. I guess just another excuse for proprietary exclusivity.



No markings at all on the jaws. These are most likely "made in the shop"

I re-tapped the threaded holes and then used a die to clean up the jacks. Lots of cutting running the die on the jacks.  Working great after that. 

My best guess now is that these may have been a "lab" when my father-in-law learned to be a machinist. The jack threads were probably cut on a lathe, by a novice and ended up too tight. I can't come up with a better story.

Why he hung onto them and never made them workable is beyond me.

His education was sufficient enough to be employed at the Portsmouth NH navel shipyard machine shop for years. Based on all of the other kit I've inherited, he knew what he was doing.


----------



## mcostello (Apr 22, 2019)

Maybe the clamps in #1 were hardened and the threads shrunk or distorted. Lightly try the hardness with a file and see if They are hard.


----------

