# Southend 9" Model A .... Questions



## cincinnati JA (Apr 21, 2013)

Hello all, I have a Southend 9" model A lathe with the quick gear change. I have not been on one of these old lathes since I was in the AF so I'm a bit rusty but my main question is this: 

I cannot figure out how to lock down the compound rest. It just moves around freely. I will take a photo and post soon of the rest but I can't figure out how to lock it down. I'm hoping nothing is broken but if it is I need to fix it. I will also keep the thread open for any other questions I have on this lathe.

I built a stand for this already but I haven't set up anything yet.



Josh


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## AR1911 (Apr 21, 2013)

You mean it swivels freely? There are two "set screws" on either side of the slide. You tighten those with the compound at the angle you desire - 29.5 degrees for treading, for example.


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## GK1918 (Apr 21, 2013)

AR1911 said:


> You mean it swivels freely? There are two "set screws" on either side of the slide. You tighten those with the compound at the angle you desire - 29.5 degrees for treading, for example.
> 
> As AR said (two set screws)  dont forget there are two "shoes" in there  the set screws or bolts push
> on.  By chance they could either be stiff or there not there.  These shoes are a bear to get out, because
> ...


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## cincinnati JA (Apr 21, 2013)

AR1911 said:


> You mean it swivels freely? There are two "set screws" on either side of the slide. You tighten those with the compound at the angle you desire - 29.5 degrees for treading, for example.



Wow I feel like a dummy! Thank you very much ! That was it. 

I have other questions to follow as well.


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## cbtrek (Apr 21, 2013)

Not asking questions is the only thing that is dumb. I have not been able to run a Lathe for 15 years and I know I have forgot things. Just picked up a small lathe and am looking for a Model A, like I had used for years.


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## cincinnati JA (Apr 21, 2013)

*Re: Southend 9&quot; Model A .... Questions*



cbtrek said:


> Not asking questions is the only thing that is dumb. I have not been able to run a Lathe for 15 years and I know I have forgot things. Just picked up a small lathe and am looking for a Model A, like I had used for years.



Very true! This really is the friendly machinist forum! 

Right now my good friend is off in another state and I've told him I want to buy this lathe . He left it with me to use because he won't need it for a long time if he even does. He hasn't decided to sell it yet but I really hope he does . But until then I'm still going to fix it all up. 

This has the quick change tail stock which I haven't figured out yet but I also have been so involved with my mill and giant grinder that I haven't spen much time on the mill. 

What is supposed to go on the threaded rods coming out of this quick change? 




This lathe is in pretty darn good condition .







The motor that he gave me is a 115v  3/4 HP craftsman . Do you think this is enough to power the lathe properly? 




I also have a 240v single phase 1/2 HP as well which would draw less amps. I may try to find another 3 phase motor or a bigger motor if y'all think I should up the HP for this lathe.




I still have some of my cutting tools I made in the AF I used to use this same lathe at times in the AF . 

I do want to buy a larger lathe as well though. I have my eye on a few . This will prove useful in keepin my tractors running properly.

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GK1918 said:


> AR1911 said:
> 
> 
> > You mean it swivels freely? There are two "set screws" on either side of the slide. You tighten those with the compound at the angle you desire - 29.5 degrees for treading, for example.
> ...


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## ScrapMetal (Apr 21, 2013)

*Re: Southend 9&quot; Model A .... Questions*



cincinnati JA said:


> Right now my good friend is off in another state and I've told him I want to buy this lathe . He left it with me to use because he won't need it for a long time if he even does. He hasn't decided to sell it yet but I really hope he does . But until then I'm still going to fix it all up.
> 
> What is supposed to go on the threaded rods coming out of this quick change?
> 
> ...



Don't "fix it up" too much!  He might be offered more money for it and decide to sell it to the highest bidder. 

FYI  - That "quick change tailstock" is commonly referred to as a "turret  tailstock" and used for "production".  Those threaded rods coming out  the backside of it don't get anything attached to them.  You screw them  in and out to adjust length and lock in their lengths with the lock  nuts.  These then act as "stops" so the tailstock can me moved back to a  repeatable position (Not sure what they stop against. )

The Craftsman 3/4hp won't work real well as it's rated at 3450rpm whereas the Leeson at 1725rpm is "just right".  I  think (I'm not and expert on the 9", or much else for that matter.)  that the 9" came stock with a 1/2 hp motor but was a little  under-powered.  Either a 3/4 hp (just not the one you have) or the 1/2 hp should be fine.

Hope this helps,

-Ron


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## Ulma Doctor (Apr 21, 2013)

i'm gonna echo Scrappy's comment in pertinence to the motor...
you want to use a 17XX rpm motor,(some are 1725,1740,1760,etc...)  1/2 hp should power it just fine.
just don't expect to take 3/8" cuts and not have the motor slow a little:LOL:!!!

a 3450 motor is waaaay to fast the hp is right, wrong RPM!

My SB11" has a 1/2 hp delco motor


good luck
were happy to help out!


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## jocat54 (Apr 21, 2013)

*Re: Southend 9&quot; Model A .... Questions*



ScrapMetal said:


> Don't "fix it up" too much!  He might be offered more money for it and decide to sell it to the highest bidder.
> 
> FYI  - That "quick change tailstock" is commonly referred to as a "turret  tailstock" and used for "production".  Those threaded rods coming out  the backside of it don't get anything attached to them.  You screw them  in and out to adjust length and lock in their lengths with the lock  nuts.  These then act as "stops" so the tailstock can me moved back to a  repeatable position (Not sure what they stop against. )
> 
> ...





Mine has a GE 1/4HP and works well.........almost believe it is the original motor.


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## cbtrek (Apr 22, 2013)

HANDLEVER BED TURRET
Looks like the handle is missing but what a great accessories to have.

Each tool face has a independently adjustable feed stop screw which accurately regulates the length of the cut.

A real time saver!


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## GK1918 (Apr 22, 2013)

*Re: Southend 9&quot; Model A .... Questions*



cincinnati JA said:


> Very true! This really is the friendly machinist forum!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Sam! Sounds like you had one heck of a time fixing that lathe! I did see your comment and I replied. The block would Definatly be good practice!  I plan on making a lot of parts with this lathe and my mill for my tractors and vehicles.





Actually there was nothing wrong with the lathe it was a question of maintanace,  I just wanted to clean
and lube the dovetail that was in there, and when off -amazing, it was brand new just like from day one.


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## cincinnati JA (Apr 22, 2013)

Thanks for the replies guys! I didn't even think about the rpm but that makes sense . I really need to get into getting it running. And you're right about not fixing it up to much ! So far I haven't put any money into it .  I really like this lathe but I really want a bigger one with a stand and what not as well. 

My first project with the lathe and mill will be to make a water pump that runs off the PTO on my Farmall cubs so I can irrigate my crops easier by just driving by basically! The most desirable part of this model A is the quick change for the threading and the metric gears as well!


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## cincinnati JA (May 28, 2013)

Ok It looks like I am missing linkage from the lathe to the motor assembly . And I believe it is adjustable to add tension to the belt. I will supply a photo later . I also would love it if someone could give me a belt reference . I bought some belts but I'm not sure of they will work well or not . And one more question is regarding the pulley on the shaft of the motor. I don't have the original pulley and I am assuming it was a double flat pulley , one smaller and one larger . Is there anywhere to source this type pulley ?


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## Halligan142 (May 28, 2013)

Nope the motor pulley is a V belt bully.  able to take 5L (B) size belts.  I know it seems counter intuitive with the V on the motor and flat on the drive.  As far as belt length That's determined by the distance from the headstock to the countershaft and a bit of personal preference.  The countershaft should be mounted a distance of 15 1/2- 15 3/4 from the center of the lathe leg mounting hole to the center of the countershaft PIVOT.  My belt is a bit long, but I prefer it that way because it is a serpentine belt and those don't tend to stretch so the extra length makes it easier to move to the other pulley steps.  The countershaft is linked to the lathe by threaded rod,s and adjustable turnbuckle, and a hand lever to lossen the belt for speed changes. My Motor pulley is 2.5" and is a replacement from the original.  They can be purchased anywhere.  MSC, McMaster-carr, Grainger, Etc...  I have the 6 speed lathe so you will need a double V pulley if you have the second motor belt step on your countershaft.


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## cincinnati JA (May 28, 2013)

I have circled in red the linkage I am missing . If someone has a photo and description of it that would be great.

Here is the motor I am using on it but I don't have a flat pulley. Anyway of sourcing one or is it something I need to make ?


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## cincinnati JA (May 28, 2013)

*Re: Southend 9&quot; Model A .... Questions*



Halligan142 said:


> Nope the motor pulley is a V belt bully.  able to take 5L (B) size belts.  I know it seems counter intuitive with the V on the motor and flat on the drive.  As far as belt length That's determined by the distance from the headstock to the countershaft and a bit of personal preference.  The countershaft should be mounted a distance of 15 1/2- 15 3/4 from the center of the lathe leg mounting hole to the center of the countershaft PIVOT.  My belt is a bit long, but I prefer it that way because it is a serpentine belt and those don't tend to stretch so the extra length makes it easier to move to the other pulley steps.  The countershaft is linked to the lathe by threaded rod,s and adjustable turnbuckle, and a hand lever to lossen the belt for speed changes. My Motor pulley is 2.5" and is a replacement from the original.  They can be purchased anywhere.  MSC, McMaster-carr, Grainger, Etc...  I have the 6 speed lathe so you will need a double V pulley if you have the second motor belt step on your countershaft.



Thanks Halligan! So I can make the adjustment rod . But I'm still unclear on the motor belt. What is a V belt Bully? If I order online what number should I get . I measured for 41.5" and I do have the two speed wheel so I need a double V pulley. Now I've kind of made a double V pulley but I think they are a bit smaller than the 2.5" you have. Also wouldn't I need two different V pulley sizes or will same same work and use two different size belts?

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Stupid question but how the heck do I get the belt on the tri pulleys?


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## cincinnati JA (May 28, 2013)

Btw my motor pulley on the motor was .5" and then I added another .5" which I was going to weld together . Tell me what you think . Also it is 2" in diameter .


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## cincinnati JA (May 28, 2013)

Ok I think I figured How to get the pulley on the motor side tri pulley. But I found a horrible design flaw... The large pulley wheel is aluminium stuck on a steel shaft! That's a number one no no in the metal world! They knew that crap in the 40's so what was the problem...


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## Halligan142 (May 28, 2013)

Typo on that.  Supposed to be V belt pulley.  The motor pulley will have two different diameters.  One smaller than the other so you can use the same size belt whether it's on the smaller or larger track in the large shaft pulley.  It will liook like diagram 2a Here http://www.wswells.com/partslist/921F.pdf   The size of the belt will be a 5L or "B" size belt which designates the width of the belt.  Add 3" to a "B" belt number to get outside circumference so a B-50 will be 53" along the outside.  remove the 0 on a 5L to get the outside circumference so a 5L-500 will be 50".  Don't use X belts IE BX-whatever.  Those have ribs and will make a lot of noise.  To get a drive belt around the 3 spot flat pulley and the headstock pulley you either have to pull the headstock and countershaft shaft out and put on a one piece belt like an automotive serpentine belt.  This will give you the most grip, but if you're not wanting to pull out the headstock you can cut the belt and stitch our glue it.  This hasn't worked well for me on rubber serpentine belts just because the belts don't tend to have much give and I like to run my belts somewhat tight.  Mine have always let go, but people have gotten it to work.  You can also go the traditional rout which is a rawhide leather belt that is laced, connected by metal clipper lacing secured with a pin, or glued with barge cement.  Also I recommend picking up a copy of southbend's how to run a lathe.  It's about $7 or you can find an older free version on the net.  Lot's of info you'll want to know in there.


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## cincinnati JA (May 29, 2013)

Halligan142 said:


> Typo on that.  Supposed to be V belt pulley.  The motor pulley will have two different diameters.  One smaller than the other so you can use the same size belt whether it's on the smaller or larger track in the large shaft pulley.  It will liook like diagram 2a Here http://www.wswells.com/partslist/921F.pdf   The size of the belt will be a 5L or "B" size belt which designates the width of the belt.  Add 3" to a "B" belt number to get outside circumference so a B-50 will be 53" along the outside.  remove the 0 on a 5L to get the outside circumference so a 5L-500 will be 50".  Don't use X belts IE BX-whatever.  Those have ribs and will make a lot of noise.  To get a drive belt around the 3 spot flat pulley and the headstock pulley you either have to pull the headstock and countershaft shaft out and put on a one piece belt like an automotive serpentine belt.  This will give you the most grip, but if you're not wanting to pull out the headstock you can cut the belt and stitch our glue it.  This hasn't worked well for me on rubber serpentine belts just because the belts don't tend to have much give and I like to run my belts somewhat tight.  Mine have always let go, but people have gotten it to work.  You can also go the traditional rout which is a rawhide leather belt that is laced, connected by metal clipper lacing secured with a pin, or glued with barge cement.  Also I recommend picking up a copy of southbend's how to run a lathe.  It's about $7 or you can find an older free version on the net.  Lot's of info you'll want to know in there.



Thanks again Halligan ! From that same site I found this http://www.wswells.com/data/9_workshop/CL670Z_army.pdf which allowed me to understand everything. I'm pretty sure I worked on this same lathe in the AF and I am glad I found a military TM because for some reason I understand them very well. I pulled everything apart . Wow this lathe is pretty simple ! So I will order the right pulleys for the motor and the correct belts. I actually have the rawhide belt to use with it but I really wanted a serpentine like you said , I like my belts tight as well. Now I just need to find a switch and while any switch will work I would really love the original . Wonder if there are any resources for old parts on the net. If you look on the photos you will see part of the base where the switch would go is broken. But I can fix that although I'm sure I can find that part too . Btw what HP motor are you using?


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## cincinnati JA (May 29, 2013)

So I am reading the parts list about the pulley and there is a few choices . I wonder what the optimum choice size would be for the speed range that would be best . I am going to have to hit up the farm store on Thursday to pick up some pulleys .


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## Halligan142 (May 30, 2013)

I have the original 1/4 hp instant reverse GE motor.  People say 1/4 hp is weak but honestly I've had a few oopses and never stalled the motor.  It actually has enough power to slip a rubber serpentine belt.  The belt is your weakest link in the power department not neccesarily the motor.  Plus the motor is over 60 years old so 1/4hp is 1/4hp not only 1/4hp on a full moon when the stars align and you get the perfect humidity and power supply.  Honestly the thing is the same size as the "1hp" motor on my band saw.  As far as the pulleys I would grab one in the middle range.  like 4 to 4.5 x 2.25 to 2.5.  It's not extremely critical.  As long as you're fastest speed doesn't overheat your bearings it should be good.


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## mrbreezeet1 (May 30, 2013)

So are you taking the countershaft and headstock apart to put the serpentine belt on?
I think that is the best thing. I 
paid $17.00 at a power transmission store for some kind laced belt they made up, it it was not worth a dollar. 
I went with a Auto serp belt, took apart my shafts to keep it endless, and I love it. 
I understand you can't do that on some of the underdrive lathes. 
Did you make the tension linkage yet?
I was thinking, what about a turn buckle as the tension mechanism?
If you could find one with the right size rod.
because of course, 1 (rod) would have to be left handed. 



cincinnati JA said:


> Thanks again Halligan ! From that same site I found this http://www.wswells.com/data/9_workshop/CL670Z_army.pdf which allowed me to understand everything. I'm pretty sure I worked on this same lathe in the AF and I am glad I found a military TM because for some reason I understand them very well. I pulled everything apart . Wow this lathe is pretty simple ! So I will order the right pulleys for the motor and the correct belts. I actually have the rawhide belt to use with it but I really wanted a serpentine like you said , I like my belts tight as well. Now I just need to find a switch and while any switch will work I would really love the original . Wonder if there are any resources for old parts on the net. If you look on the photos you will see part of the base where the switch would go is broken. But I can fix that although I'm sure I can find that part too . Btw what HP motor are you using?


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## cincinnati JA (Jun 1, 2013)

*Re: Southend 9&quot; Model A .... Questions*



Halligan142 said:


> I have the original 1/4 hp instant reverse GE motor.  People say 1/4 hp is weak but honestly I've had a few oopses and never stalled the motor.  It actually has enough power to slip a rubber serpentine belt.  The belt is your weakest link in the power department not neccesarily the motor.  Plus the motor is over 60 years old so 1/4hp is 1/4hp not only 1/4hp on a full moon when the stars align and you get the perfect humidity and power supply.  Honestly the thing is the same size as the "1hp" motor on my band saw.  As far as the pulleys I would grab one in the middle range.  like 4 to 4.5 x 2.25 to 2.5.  It's not extremely critical.  As long as you're fastest speed doesn't overheat your bearings it should be good.



Ok good, I have put a 1725 rpm 1/2hp single phase 240v motor on it . I mounted the rear pulley/motor set up per the instructions you have me and linked me too. This allowed me to confirm that the original leather belt of 51.25 is about the right size . I just now need to make the adjustment . I have had a hard time finding belts online . Flat ones that is . I found one at napa I think for 51.750 so I think I may try that . I am stopping by a industrial farm supply store today to pick up pulleys. Hopefully unless you have a link to a place to order online. I'm the worst at finding some of these parts through search.

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mrbreezeet1 said:


> So are you taking the countershaft and headstock apart to put the serpentine belt on?
> I think that is the best thing. I
> paid $17.00 at a power transmission store for some kind laced belt they made up, it it was not worth a dollar.
> I went with a Auto serp belt, took apart my shafts to keep it endless, and I love it.
> ...



Yes I took apart everything once I figured it all out. I agree that it's the best way to put a belt on . I don't really like how they used an aluminum wheel for the motor drive . Pretty stupid if you ask me considering its mounted straight on the steel shaft instead of having a brass bushing of some sort . That's what made it so hard to remove at first and it's always scary putting heat to an antique like this! But I heated it up with a torch slightly and tapped it off . I am going to try and find a turn buckle at the hardware store or tractor story today.


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## Halligan142 (Jun 1, 2013)

take a look at Mcmaster-carr or MSC,  If you have an account at Grainger through work or something that'll work too.  A tractor supply will be somewhat limited.


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## cincinnati JA (Jun 8, 2013)

Halligan142 said:


> take a look at Mcmaster-carr or MSC,  If you have an account at Grainger through work or something that'll work too.  A tractor supply will be somewhat limited.



 Still looking but slowed down a bit . I had to stop messing with the lathe so I could get paying work done. I tried grainger but all I could find was a 3 step. Now I have a set of pulleys that may work I just need to look at them I forgot that I pulled them off a motor a long time ago .


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