# Removing a spindle from an atlas mill



## vikinginging (Oct 30, 2020)

Hi Everyone,

I have an atlas mill that's in a pretty sorry state. I'm taking apart cleaning & repainting. Problem is the spindle is totally stuck in the headstock. The spindle spins freely in the bearings, the locking collar unscrewed from the back easily. I've removed set screws from the collar inside the headstock and the gear inside the headstock. The gears, pulley and collars inside the head stock all slide up and down the shaft freely. But the spindle will not budge. I see you need to be careful to line the key up with the notch in the headstock when removing, but every video I can find shows it coming out with a light tap. As best I can tell from knocking mine with a hammer and a block of wood it doesn't move a fraction of an inch. Any ideas on getting it out?


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## Bi11Hudson (Oct 30, 2020)

Up front, anything that has been assembled can be disassembled. This is especially true of old machine tools. I have a version of the Atlas mill. I don't remember exactly how I got it apart, I've had a few strokes since I rebuilt it. But there is a driver gear set on the very right side inside the head stock. There is also a three level sheave about the middle with an oil hole. Sometimes the setscrew for the oil hole is seated too deep. This sheave and the locking pin to the right is part of the back gearing. The toggle for the back gearing does play a part in disassembly.

There are several sites that have assembly diagrams for the machine. I can't say where, when I find one of import to my machines, I save the PDF to my hard drive for future reference. All I can really tell you is that there is something holding you up. When I rebuilt my machine, a MF-C, it did have some points holding the spindle that had to be released. Get a caffeine fix and sit and stare at the machine. You will eventually see what is holding you up.

.


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## 34_40 (Oct 30, 2020)

Nice to see someone asking a mill question for a change.   Been some time since that's happened.
What (if any) documentation do you have?  I do not have my mill papers here at the house but from memory there is a setscrew down inside the sheeve and it has a plastic or brass piece under it to protect the shaft.  At least that what my memory is telling me.. I could be all wet!
I'll see if I can't get by the shop and grab my papers to review.  Or more likely Robert will see this and supply all the correct info!!
I haven't touched my mill in quite some time! There used to be a very active group of Mill Owners here..  more later.


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## CluelessNewB (Oct 30, 2020)

You can download a copy of the manual and parts lists from the downloads section of this website.    It covers various versions of the Atlas Horizontal Mill.  (I believe you may to be a donating member to access this.) 

Link: 

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/resources/atlas-mill-bulletin-mmb-5-mf-mhc-rev8-1-pdf.1501/


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## ThinWoodsman (Oct 30, 2020)

I've done the Atlas spindle removal a couple of times. On the second one, the spindle dust cover (or something; it was last year) got rotated so that the notches didn't all line up. I recall using a brass drift to on the notch to rotate the dust cover after squirting some kroil on the thing the night before. Definitely try some penetrating oil, there could be all sorts of old chip as oil in there.

Presumably you're seen this, this, and this if you have gotten as far as the spindle dust cover.


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## vikinginging (Oct 30, 2020)

Thanks for the info guys, at this point i think the bearings are seiz
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
ed/ rusted onto the spindle. Maybe chips & old oil as ThinWoodsman says. I'm reluctant to press it off because of need to line up the key way with the headstock notch. Is it worth giving the whole headstock an overnight bath in Evaporust or degreaser? Or is that going to wreck the bearings? The bearings are $35 each on amazon so I'd prefer not to buy if i can avoid.

There's pictures of the set screws I've removed in case I'm missing something obvious(removed every screw I can find). Everything spins freely on the spindle so I don't think any set screws left gripping anything.


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## CluelessNewB (Oct 30, 2020)

I would use Kroil, PB Blaster or ATF/Acetone rather than Evaporust and  maybe a bit of heat from a heat gun.  Patience is key, give it a few days, let it work, try again, repeat as necessary.


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## JPMacG (Oct 31, 2020)

Yes, heat from a heat gun.  The part you are heating is massive, so it will take time to heat up - maybe 10 minutes or more.  Mine was stuck but gave way to a few blows from a lead mallet.  I do not recommend this except as a last resort.  You don't want to create runout on the spindle.  I'd pry off the right side outer dust cap first.  No sense putting it in harms way in case the Woodruff key rotates.

If all else fails, headstocks and spindles show up on eBay.  The bull gear and gear/pulley assembly are less common and may be more valuable.

I have a spare set of bearings.  PM me if/when you want them.  But your bearings may just need cleaning.  You may need to polish the bearing area of the spindle before reassembly, assuming you get it apart.


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## JPMacG (Oct 31, 2020)

Oh by the way, the locking collar just to the left of the little gear - I don't see it in the photos.   Is it hidden somehow?  On my mill it would be visible.


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## ThinWoodsman (Oct 31, 2020)

I think JPMacG got it, you may have missed the locking collar. 

Those look pretty gunked up but not disastrously so. Put penetrating oil (Marvel Mystery Oil from the hardware store will work if you can't get Kroil, it also uses wintergreen oil which I understand is the main penetrant) in the oil cup and where all the set screws used to be. Tap the spindle with a rubber mallet or a wood dowel from the back, the goal being to loosen the gears on the shaft, not to drive out the spindle. Try from the front as well, but take care you might hit the dust cover. Remember there's a key in there, so we're talking light taps to dislodge the buildup, not huge whacks to shoot the spindle out the frame.


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## vikinginging (Oct 31, 2020)

The locking collar on the far left (back of the headstock) had 4 set screws in it, removed those at the beginning. The locking collar spins freely on the spindle.

I'll give everything a soak in PB Blaster a few times today. Already tried kroil. Then I'll try with a heatgun tomorrow.


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## vikinginging (Oct 31, 2020)

Well I got impatient and it came out with a 10lb hammer. 

The bearings must have ceased, once the rear bearing moved 1/2" the whole thing dropped out.

The woodruff key as it turned out wasn't in there so not sure how they were running the thing. probably with the set screw cranked down hard, I literally twisted an Alan key into a spiral when I got it out.


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## 34_40 (Oct 31, 2020)

vikinginging said:


> The woodruff key as it turned out wasn't in there so not sure how they were running the thing. probably with the set screw cranked down hard,



Shame what some previous owners do to their machines. Well... as they say, "No place to go but up!"  I see someone else posted the link to the manual, were you able to download it?  It can be very helpful.


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## vikinginging (Oct 31, 2020)

34_40 said:


> Shame what some previous owners do to their machines. Well... as they say, "No place to go but up!"  I see someone else posted the link to the manual, were you able to download it?  It can be very helpful.



I'd found the manual on vintagemachinery.org, it'll be helpful for sure.


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## 34_40 (Oct 31, 2020)

Glad to hear it.  Now about them pictures...


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## johnbgood (Nov 1, 2020)

CluelessNewB said:


> I would use Kroil, PB Blaster or ATF/Acetone rather than Evaporust and  maybe a bit of heat from a heat gun.  Patience is key, give it a few days, let it work, try again, repeat as necessary.


What he said.....I ended up doing the same process with a bearing but in the end, I wrapped it with wire and heated the wire. Shaft stayed cool and it worked...might be worth a try..


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## wa5cab (Nov 1, 2020)

The screw in the bottom of the larger pulley groove is an oil plug, not a set screw.  However, it will not hurt anything to remove it.

In your first photo it would appear that the bull gear is pulled up hard against the inside front of the head. If that is the case, slide the bull gear as far to the rear as it will go.

There should be two set screws in the bull gear.  One is a #8-32.  Do not touch that one.  The other is a 1/4"-20 Allen type.  Remove that one.

If the file that you downloaded from vintage machinery is Atlas Milling Machine Bulletin MMB-5 and it is legible enough to read, go to printed page 4 (should be file page 11).  If it isn't, pay your $10 (good for a year), read the instructions on using Downloads in the sticky area at the top of this Forum, go to Downloads and download the file from there.  It should be the first file in the A/C Mills folder.  File name is  Atlas Mill Bulletin MMB-5 MF--MHC Rev8-1.pdf .

As the right spindle cone comes out with the spindle, my best guess is that the left bearing cone is stuck on the spindle.  However, the right bearing cone's outer dust cover also has to be driven out, so that might be part of it.  I would strongly recommend using a hydraulic press to remove the spindle.  Warming the left hand cone will help but to do that, you will first have to remove the left hand outer dust cover.  The second choice would be a puller fabricated from 1/2"-16 Allthread, nuts and washers and appropriate diameter mechanical tubing and an end plate.


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## vikinginging (Nov 1, 2020)

34_40 said:


> Glad to hear it.  Now about them pictures...



Head stock is disassembled and taking a bath in a cleaner but will take a picture when i pull it out. 



wa5cab said:


> As the right spindle cone comes out with the spindle, my best guess is that the left bearing cone is stuck on the spindle.  However, the right bearing cone's outer dust cover also has to be driven out, so that might be part of it.  I would strongly recommend using a hydraulic press to remove the spindle.  Warming the left hand cone will help but to do that, you will first have to remove the left hand outer dust cover.  The second choice would be a puller fabricated from 1/2"-16 Allthread, nuts and washers and appropriate diameter mechanical tubing and an end plate.



I had all the screws out the 10lb hammer got it, but for sure out a hydraulic press would have been a better option for sure if I had access to one. The spindle is pretty chewed up from screws being over tightened and what looks almost like someone drilled into it?


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## wa5cab (Nov 1, 2020)

Finding a replacement spindle should be fairly easy.  All models of the Atlas Mill used the same one.


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## ThinWoodsman (Nov 2, 2020)

I have a spare actually. One of the atlases I disassembled was for parts, and the spindle was a part I didn't need. Been using the frame as an x-y table near a vise that holds a dremel


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## vikinginging (Nov 3, 2020)

Yeah, I think I'm going to be in the market for a new spindle. There's deep scoring where the set screw or something was spinning on the spindle while they weren't using a key to hold things in place. And some deep holes I can't explain. There's an arbor stuck in there as well that isn't shifting no matter what I try. The bearing seats on the spindle are pretty clean. 

Head stock is cleaning up, need to strip the paint.


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## JPMacG (Nov 3, 2020)

The arbor driver should unscrew.  It is a right-hand thread.   After you unscrew it, inspect the Morse taper and the surfaces (registry) where the arbor mates with the spindle.  If they are in decent condition and the spindle bearing surfaces are OK, you may not need a new one.

I had to replace a spindle on my MFC because the Morse taper and registry surfaces were messed up.


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## vikinginging (Nov 4, 2020)

JPMacG said:


> The arbor driver should unscrew.  It is a right-hand thread.   After you unscrew it, inspect the Morse taper and the surfaces (registry) where the arbor mates with the spindle.  If they are in decent condition and the spindle bearing surfaces are OK, you may not need a new one.



The arbor driver is stuck on there pretty hard, and the hole to put a bar in & turn it is worn out. I may try drilling a new hole, but so far with kroil, pb blaster & heat it's not moving. I had an old lathe spindle with a spindle protector jammed on there so hard i couldn't get it off. I chucked up the spindle in a bigger lathe and cut it off, it fell off before I got to the point of damaging the thread. I could do the same thing, spindle is already pretty ugly anyway.


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## 34_40 (Nov 4, 2020)

Hoo Boy that shaft is buggered up!  I'd think if you could get a good used one at a good price you'd be further ahead. 
Sounds like you already know what to do about the arbor driver...but I was thinking that if you found a new to you spindle then you could cut the shaft next to the driver and use your lathe to cut away the spindle down to the threads, leaving the driver for cleanup...  

It's a thought.....  LOL


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## fixit (Nov 4, 2020)

vikinginging said:


> The locking collar on the far left (back of the headstock) had 4 set screws in it, removed those at the beginning. The locking collar spins freely on the spindle.
> 
> I'll give everything a soak in PB Blaster a few times today. Already tried kroil. Then I'll try with a heatgun tomorrow.



Is to possible there is a setscrew on top of a setscrew??


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## vikinginging (Nov 4, 2020)

fixit said:


> Is to possible there is a setscrew on top of a setscrew??



No there was just the one in each hole, looks like a shop made collar though



34_40 said:


> Hoo Boy that shaft is buggered up!  I'd think if you could get a good used one at a good price you'd be further ahead.
> Sounds like you already know what to do about the arbor driver...but I was thinking that if you found a new to you spindle then you could cut the shaft next to the driver and use your lathe to cut away the spindle down to the threads, leaving the driver for cleanup...



Buggered up is the word, only thing I can think to do is fill the holes & scoring with weld and turn it down to size. where it's scored all around it's over 100thou smaller than the rest of the spindle. maybe that wouldn't affect the function of it if there's actually a key in there.

The driver is missing the driver pins, they look like they were ground off. The driver is probably the easier part to remake though. I'm going to make a 1" arbor anyway.


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## JPMacG (Nov 4, 2020)

Yes, the driver is not a precision part.  You could make one yourself or buy a shop-made part.  The arbor is hardened and ground (I think) and beyond the capability of most hobbyists.   I would sacrifice the arbor to try to save the spindle, just in the hope that the spindle could be cleaned up and used.

Edit: Sorry, I meant to say that the spindle was hardened and ground.


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## vikinginging (Nov 4, 2020)

JPMacG said:


> Yes, the driver is not a precision part.  You could make one yourself or buy a shop-made part.  The arbor is hardened and ground (I think) and beyond the capability of most hobbyists.   I would sacrifice the arbor to try to save the spindle, just in the hope that the spindle could be cleaned up and used.



I have a toolpost grinder, so i may be able to grind one. it wouldn't be a great loss if it didn't turn out.


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