# New VFD Install



## starburst (Mar 17, 2022)

Hello All, 
Can't remember the last time I posted but this is my go-to forum for help of all kinds!  I really appreciate all of you!

I am just completing my first VFD install on my old Jet 16 milling machine.  Probably cost more than the mill, oh well.  Anyway I would never have got through it without this forum.  I've attached a couple of pictures.  Thanks to ALL!


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## wachuko (Mar 17, 2022)

Wow!!  That looks like it took some work.  But it all looks so nice and tidy. 

You must feel great after a job well done!!


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## markba633csi (Mar 18, 2022)

Very clean install- what's your first milling project?
-M


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## starburst (Mar 18, 2022)

The first project will be to mill a bracket to hold the tach sensor above the front pulley.  There is a small magnet that gets mounted on the pulley. 
After that I'm not sure, whatever comes up.  The main reason I did this project is that my shoulders are shot and changing the belts is painful.  This means I will hardly ever need to change them again!


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## Tomzo (Mar 28, 2022)

That is awesome!  Most impressive!

I am planning a VFD upgrade on my HF clone of this mill.   I am reading through a bunch of posts here and watching YouTube videos to finalize the configuration of the components, controls, etc and wondered if you had any wiring diagrams you might be able to share.  My plan is to include the following:

-  Din mounted fast acting fuses on input power
-  Din mounted contactor for e-stop
-  Forward/reverse control using either existing drum switch or new selector switch
-  potentiometer for speed control
-  optional tachometer

I am thinking I will put the momentary "on" switch on the enclosure door to turn on the VFD and am wrestling with whether to put the e-stop on the enclosure or on a panel at the front of the mill (I replaced the quill scale up front with DRO and have a blank metal plate there now).  If the e-stop is on the panel I might have to reach around something that has gone wrong to get to it, so I am leaning towards having it up front.  In normal operations I would stop the rotation using the direction switch as that would just stop the motor and not kill power to the VFD (excessive cycling is not good for those devices), but if you know what hits the fan I want to be able to hit the big red button and back away.

The precise wiring of the e-stop is one of the things that is unclear to me.  Where does the momentary switch that tells the contactor to latch draw from - one of the 120V legs of the 220V circuit or a lower voltage source?  

I see you have what appears to be an EMI filter inline between the source power and the VFD - I am considering that as well as my TouchDRO will likely not like a bunch of noise.

I know I am asking a lot, but do you have a list of the components you used?   There are so many different varieties out there and while there are some posts here that have them some are very old and finding components that were prevalent 10 years ago can be tricky today.

Anyway, your controls look awesome - thanks for sharing!

Tom


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## Firebrick43 (Mar 28, 2022)

Good looking job starburst!  Go to an ax belt and everything will be top notch!

Looks like power lift on Z axis?




Tomzo said:


> That is awesome!  Most impressive!
> 
> I am planning a VFD upgrade on my HF clone of this mill.   I am reading through a bunch of posts here and watching YouTube videos to finalize the configuration of the components, controls, etc and wondered if you had any wiring diagrams you might be able to share.  My plan is to include the following:
> 
> ...




Tom, you don't have to have e stop contactor.  Every VFD that I have used allows wiring the E stop switch directly to the VFD.  IF you do use a contactor, it need to go before the VFD and kill power that way.  Down side is you can loose some of your breaking then.  Never open the wires between the VFD and the motor, it will fry the VFD.  A lot of commercial machines use the contactor for most functions and at the same time open the e stop circuit integral to the VFD so it can stop with braking.  

And do put the e stop at the operator panel.  That is where it belongs.


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## markba633csi (Mar 28, 2022)

I was thinking the same thing- you can E-stop the VFD directly, no contactor needed.


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## Tomzo (Mar 28, 2022)

Firebrick43 said:


> Tom, you don't have to have e stop contactor.  Every VFD that I have used allows wiring the E stop switch directly to the VFD.  IF you do use a contactor, it need to go before the VFD and kill power that way.  Down side is you can loose some of your breaking then.  Never open the wires between the VFD and the motor, it will fry the VFD.  A lot of commercial machines use the contactor for most functions and at the same time open the e stop circuit integral to the VFD so it can stop with braking.
> 
> And do put the e stop at the operator panel.  That is where it belongs.


Thanks FireBrick43 - I had planned to use an estop to kill power to the VFD assuming that if my other stop commands to the VFD were not working I had a quick way to kill power to the whole system.   It would not go between the VFD and the motor, but be something akin to how Clough42 set up the VFD on his lathe in a video from a few years ago. 

I am looking at the Huanyang VFD that seems pretty popular and from reading (interpreting?) the manual I see how to stop the motor - or I guess more accurately take away the run signal.  This would trigger the braking system in normal operations it seems to me.   I am not planning on a braking resistor right now but that might be something for the future.

I have a pretty good idea in my mind on how this should be wired and was just trying to see if someone had already drawn all this up so I could cross check how I see it being wired against someone's drawing from a working system.


markba633csi said:


> I was thinking the same thing- you can E-stop the VFD directly, no contactor needed.


Perhaps it is my lack of familiarity with 220V circuits in this application, but I thought a contactor would allow me to kill both hot legs with one signal wire.  If pressed, the estop would cut the current to the coil that holds the contactor closed and that would release all the legs of the 220V circuit going to the VFD.  This also prevents the VFD from getting power again until a momentary switch re-engages the coil, thus requiring me to both reset the estop and press the momentary switch to get things going again.  Here is a screen shot of how Clough42 set it up.


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## markba633csi (Mar 28, 2022)

It may actually be detrimental to kill the input power while the vfd is driving a load. Depends on the manufacturer.


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## Tomzo (Mar 28, 2022)

markba633csi said:


> It may actually be detrimental to kill the input power while the vfd is driving a load. Depends on the manufacturer.


Yes - that would not be a normal operation thing, but only in case of emergency.   What would cause that?   I could imagine a situation where something in the motor of VFD went sideways and it stopped responding to commands to stop.  Or there was smoke coming out of the VFD enclosure. That is about it.   I guess I could run over to the subpanel in the shop and flip the breaker...


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## starburst (Mar 28, 2022)

Hello all, thanks for the nice comments about my project.
Tomzo, I had to laugh when I saw your post, I struggled with all those things also.  Still not sure if I did everything right.  And yes I added a gear motor to raise and lower the head.  My shoulders are bad and I'm doing all this to allow me to keep working on the mill for as long as possible.  So this made the build a little more complex because I incorporated the control of the head into this build.
Unfortunately I didn't do a wiring diagram, I built it on the bench and when I got it working right I installed it on the mill.
I will put together a list of components for you.
The really fun part of this build was the series of relays I used to control the availability of power to the various switches.  The lighted switches indicate when a switch is active.  So for example, when main power is on at the wall box, the green switch on the operator panel lights because that is the only function you can do at that time.  When you hit the green button then the red light comes on, green goes out and amber fwd/reverse is lit.  If you unlock the head, the head up/ down goes on and fwd/rev goes out until you lock the head.  Very fun stuff.
I use 220v for the VFD, 110v for the gear motor, 24v for the control circuit and 12v for the cooling fan circuit in the wall box.
More to come.


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## Tomzo (Mar 28, 2022)

Awesome - perhaps I will need a bigger enclosure if I venture into all of those extra features.   The component list would be awesome as at least I can get the spec sheets from the manufacturers and plan it out before I get it all on the bench.   An electrician is coming tomorrow to give me a price on the new subpanel in my shop, so once I have 220V in there I can start laying things out properly.   I just don't want to fry anything along the way....


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## Firebrick43 (Mar 28, 2022)

Tomzo said:


> Thanks FireBrick43 - I had planned to use an estop to kill power to the VFD assuming that if my other stop commands to the VFD were not working I had a quick way to kill power to the whole system.   It would not go between the VFD and the motor, but be something akin to how Clough42 set up the VFD on his lathe in a video from a few years ago.
> 
> I am looking at the Huanyang VFD that seems pretty popular and from reading (interpreting?) the manual I see how to stop the motor - or I guess more accurately take away the run signal.  This would trigger the braking system in normal operations it seems to me.   I am not planning on a braking resistor right now but that might be something for the future.
> 
> ...


First I respect Clough42 in many instances, and I have his ELS controller but have not yet gotten around to implementing it yet. 

I however disagree with his wiring methods/circuits. 

No one runs 110v thru switches any more, and haven't in ages.  All the main industrial CNC/automation uses 24 volts.  Bring 110v to the panel just adds other safety conserns. 

If it makes you feel better, use a relay/contactor to latch in the enable to run circuit, but I think killing power to the vfd is detrimental to safety.  None of the machines I work on kill power to the VFD.  They do to dumb motors but not the VFD. 

I also disagree with his use of insulated ring/fork terminals.  Most don't have the proper certified crimpers to do them correctly.  Much better is to use uninsulated ones with proper crimpers and insulated with a piece of heat shrink.  I have seen to many insulated terminals not crimped correctly and overheat.  Same goes for wire nuts on motors. 

As for the Huanang VFD, well I refuse to use them.  Most of the time I use an AC lenze, mitsubishi, siemens, or minimum teco.


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## Tomzo (Mar 28, 2022)

I guess on one side of the fence are folks who just plug the VFD into a 220V outlet and on the other side are the people who put different levels of protection between the breaker at the panel and the VFD.   You can't get 15A 220V breakers and any 220V outlet will have conductors that are rated for higher amperage than that.  The VFD I am looking at is rated at 10A output so if something goes haywire, a bunch more than 10A is going to pass through the VFD.   That is where the idea of putting some smaller 10A fuses ahead of the VFD comes in I would think.   Since I will likely have the VFD in an enclosure that is likely going to be in a somewhat inconvenient place,  I will need a way to turn it on and off, so a contactor with some on/off buttons seems like a convenient way to switch the power to the device from a more accessible location.  Clearly, you don't turn it off when the system is running.

With respect to the budget VFD, were I to buy all the name brand stuff I would spend more than I did on this small mill.   I got the three phase motor off Craigslist after all, so budget is definitely a concern.   I just hate getting out a ladder and wrestling with belts....


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## starburst (Mar 29, 2022)

Hi Tomzo, here is the list of components I used in the build (see attached file).
I was also concerned about cost and sourced most things off eBay and got some really good prices.


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## Tomzo (Mar 29, 2022)

Wow - thanks.   This is an excellent resource.   I see you have a timed relay to prevent the VFD from cycling too quickly.   What kind of delay do you have that set for?   In my day job I manage a water utility and back in the day when I used to run a treatment plant we used large motors (up to 300HP) and the standard practice was no more than 5 starts per hour.   This is just what our electricians advised and I had always thought was a motor limitation but perhaps it was for the VFD.


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## tq60 (Mar 29, 2022)

Tomzo said:


> I guess on one side of the fence are folks who just plug the VFD into a 220V outlet and on the other side are the people who put different levels of protection between the breaker at the panel and the VFD. You can't get 15A 220V breakers and any 220V outlet will have conductors that are rated for higher amperage than that. The VFD I am looking at is rated at 10A output so if something goes haywire, a bunch more than 10A is going to pass through the VFD. That is where the idea of putting some smaller 10A fuses ahead of the VFD comes in I would think. Since I will likely have the VFD in an enclosure that is likely going to be in a somewhat inconvenient place, I will need a way to turn it on and off, so a contactor with some on/off buttons seems like a convenient way to switch the power to the device from a more accessible location. Clearly, you don't turn it off when the system is running.
> 
> With respect to the budget VFD, were I to buy all the name brand stuff I would spend more than I did on this small mill. I got the three phase motor off Craigslist after all, so budget is definitely a concern. I just hate getting out a ladder and wrestling with belts....


The breaker only protects to the outlet.

The device protects itself.

20 Amp breaker requires correct outlet and number 12 wire.

The VFD should have fuses or beakers inside.

If you want to add protection just order some breakers from Amazon and add them between VFD and cord

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


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## starburst (Mar 29, 2022)

Tomzo said:


> Wow - thanks.   This is an excellent resource.   I see you have a timed relay to prevent the VFD from cycling too quickly.   What kind of delay do you have that set for?   In my day job I manage a water utility and back in the day when I used to run a treatment plant we used large motors (up to 300HP) and the standard practice was no more than 5 starts per hour.   This is just what our electricians advised and I had always thought was a motor limitation but perhaps it was for the VFD.


I'm using 7 minutes, I saw recommendations for 5 to15 minutes, I think 7 should be ok but if anyone has a better idea I'd love to hear it.  The Vfd has a built in function for this but it will automatically start after the delay time.  I wasn't comfortable with that. 
Those timers are vary handy but they take up a lot of space.  If you plan on using them layout your Din rail with them installed so you can see how far apart everything has to be.


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## Tomzo (Mar 29, 2022)

Interesting - so where is that timer in the circuit?  Is this to prevent cycling power to the VFD or restricting start/stop commands to the VFD?  I was looking through the Huanyang manual to see this auto start delay setting but must not be translating correctly - is there a particular setting for that?   If I am drilling some holes or doing some short repeated operations I could see myself starting and stopping within a minute or two of each operation


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## starburst (Mar 29, 2022)

Tomzo said:


> Interesting - so where is that timer in the circuit?  Is this to prevent cycling power to the VFD or restricting start/stop commands to the VFD?  I was looking through the Huanyang manual to see this auto start delay setting but must not be translating correctly - is there a particular setting for that?   If I am drilling some holes or doing some short repeated operations I could see myself starting and stopping within a minute or two of each operation


In my manual on page 38 it's P1.13 and P1 14.  This is only for when power is removed from the VFD.  Normally when I'm going to use the mill, I start the VFD in the morning and just leave it on until I go in the evening.  Once the VFD is powered on. You can start and stop the spindle as much as you want.


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## Firebrick43 (Mar 29, 2022)

Tomzo said:


> Interesting - so where is that timer in the circuit?  Is this to prevent cycling power to the VFD or restricting start/stop commands to the VFD?  I was looking through the Huanyang manual to see this auto start delay setting but must not be translating correctly - is there a particular setting for that?   If I am drilling some holes or doing some short repeated operations I could see myself starting and stopping within a minute or two of each operation


That was a load/motor issue, not a vfd.  We have some at work on an automated polisher that start motor, run for 30 seconds, reverse for 30 seconds, stop for 15 to transfer parts, and do it again all day.  

Also, Putting circuit breakers in front of a VFD is always a good idea.


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## Tomzo (Mar 29, 2022)

starburst said:


> In my manual on page 38 it's P1.13 and P1 14.  This is only for when power is removed from the VFD.  Normally when I'm going to use the mill, I start the VFD in the morning and just leave it on until I go in the evening.  Once the VFD is powered on. You can start and stop the spindle as much as you want.


Thanks - also, sorry for hijacking your thread about your awesome setup with my inane questions...


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## Tomzo (Apr 9, 2022)

Starburst - I am interested in the noise filter application you used.  I see you used a three phase model and only used two legs, but have seen others use a single phase model and run 110V through each of the two legs rather than a neutral.  Any reason that would not work?

Thanks

Tom


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## starburst (Apr 9, 2022)

Tomzo said:


> Starburst - I am interested in the noise filter application you used.  I see you used a three phase model and only used two legs, but have seen others use a single phase model and run 110V through each of the two legs rather than a neutral.  Any reason that would not work?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tom


Yes, I purchased a three phase filter because that was the highest amp rated one I could find.  From watching a clough42 sp? Video about noise mitigation he said you could use either 3 phase or single phase.


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## Tomzo (Apr 9, 2022)

Thanks - I will give the single phase a go and should that not do the trick I will get a three phase model.   I have most of the components (and found a Hoffman enclosure used on eBay) so I should have something to show in a week or so.


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## Tomzo (Apr 14, 2022)

Still have not hooked it up to 220V yet (just got the subpanel installed - still need to run the circuit over to where the mill is).   This needs some wire management in a bad way, but I figured I would make sure everything works before I cinch down all the wires.   I may do something completely different for the buttons on the panel as that looks messy.   Of course, nobody will see it but me, but still. I tested the pushbuttons and contactor using 110V.   I used 12ga solid conductors from the fuses to the contactor - I had it on hand and it was easy to bend into shape so I figured why not? (Edit - after I posted this I realized that in this image the 220V leads from the contactor to the filter were not connected - I had taken them off when using 110V to test the buttons.  Duh)

I put a little 110V distribution block in there to feed power to the pushbuttons and contactor.   I figured something might come along in the future that could need it so I will have it there to tie in to.

I got this Hoffman box off eBay for $100 shipped.  It had three holes in the front so I just put a blank in the one I am not using.  I sounded out the ground from my plug to the motor, the noise filter, and the VFD ground terminal so at least my grounds are good to go.   Hopefully I will have time tomorrow to finish that circuit and bench test the motor and program the VFD.   After that it is time to get the motor onto the mill.


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