# WHEN YOU CAN'T WELD



## rock_breaker (Oct 25, 2021)

This is what I came up with to pull a stuck pin out of my backhoe because I can't weld due to having a pacemaker. The pin was actually pulled yesterday (10/24/21). The "puller" was made over several days due to medical stuff and colder weather.

This "puller" is 1.5" in diameter X 2" long. The large hole in the end is 1.008" id and approximately 1" deep, the 0.370" hole in the periphery goes through both sides of the 1.008" hole. The hinge pins on the hoe are 6" long and have 0.375" holes in each end for retention pins that keep the hinge pins from rotating. The left end in the picture is threaded 1/2" X 13 TPI approximately 1" long. A piece of "all thread" was run through my hollow porta power and a 6" long steel tube into the threads in the "puller", the porta power pushed against a piece of 1/2" scrap and 2 nuts (didn't want to strip the threads).  A 0.370" od X 1.625" pin was put through the puller and the hinge pin.

As is typical in these situations  I was wondering if I had enough porta power when the hinge pin made a popping noise and moved about 1/8", the rest is history.

My thanks to the members who suggested welding.

Have a good day
Ray


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## matthewsx (Oct 26, 2021)

Looks like a great solution to the problem....

Still can use Oxy/acetylene, right? Wouldn't be without my torch  

John


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## KyleG (Oct 26, 2021)

Nice work, glad you were successful. 

For what it’s worth, I also have a pacer, and I’ve never had an issue with arc welding. I like your pulling adapter better though.


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## Flyinfool (Oct 26, 2021)

I also have a pacer, the manufacturer simply states that arc welding must be kept below 160 amps or more than 2 feet from the pacer. Check with the maker of your specific model of pacer to check its limitations. I had to call and ask for industrial limitations to get the welding info. This specific of info is not in the owners manual.

I do use the oxy more often now that I have the pacer.


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## rock_breaker (Oct 26, 2021)

Thank you @Flyinfool. My shop is a repurposed wood frame house so any potential fire making activity is done outside, and up until last night (we finally had rain & sleet) we are in a severe drought situation so using a torch requires spraying the area with potable water now. We ran out of irrigation water in July of this year. I will check with the St. Jude people about this.
Have a good day
Ray


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## rwm (Oct 27, 2021)

Boston Sci gives this generic advice:



			https://www.bostonscientific.com/content/dam/bostonscientific/quality/education-resources/english-a4/EN_ACL_Arc_Welding_20160325.pdf
		


And this from St Jude

"Effects of Arc Welding on St. Jude Medical Implantable
Cardiac Rhythm Devices
Background
Electric arc welding produces intense electrical and magnetic fields that can affect the function
of pacemakers and implantable cardioverter defibrillators (ICDs). This interference is caused by
the device sensing extraneous signals from the welding equipment that have characteristics
mimicking cardiac activity. While electromagnetic interference (EMI) from arc welding equipment
will not damage the implanted device, it can inhibit pacing, trigger the device’s noise response
(typically leading to asynchronous pacing), or produce inadvertent antitachycardia pacing,
cardioversion or defibrillation therapies. *These effects are temporary, and will cease when the
patient turns off or moves away from the arc welding equipment.*
Pacemakers and ICDs programmed to a *bipolar sensing configuration are less likely to be
affected by such extraneous interference *than those programmed to unipolar sensing.
Many patients with St. Jude Medical devices use or have been in close proximity to electric
welders with no apparent problems. In addition, several reports have documented the absence
of interference when patients with ICDs used arc welding machines. However, we cannot
guarantee that a patient will not experience device interference associated with arc welding."

I think this is an important subject since it could affect many of us going forward. I plan to weld until I can't see!

Robert


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## Flyinfool (Oct 27, 2021)

That is why I said to check your specific make and model of pacer. They all have different recommendations.

My pacer also has specific info for surface grinders. Waving a magnet over my pacer is how it gets turned on and off. A magnetic chuck could be turning me on and off as it goes back and forth.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Oct 27, 2021)

@rock_breaker if you ever need welding done, I'm happy to help, the least I can do for all the mentoring via email I got from you


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## rock_breaker (Oct 28, 2021)

Thanks.@ Gunsofnavarron, as it turns out the young man leasing the farm is a former welding instructor so if need be  I can lean on him. Your response has brought two things to mind however. 1. This website was founded so that machinists of any sklill level can help each other. 2. When it comes to safety good information and advice is passed on. I  thank the membership for that.
Have a good day
Ray


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## rwm (Oct 28, 2021)

Flyinfool said:


> That is why I said to check your specific make and model of pacer. They all have different recommendations.
> 
> My pacer also has specific info for surface grinders. Waving a magnet over my pacer is how it gets turned on and off. A magnetic chuck could be turning me on and off as it goes back and forth.


Magnetic chucks always turn me on!
Robert


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## Just for fun (Oct 28, 2021)

I wonder TIG welding is more dangerous to a pace make then stick welding or do they pose the same amount of risk?


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## rwm (Oct 28, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> I wonder TIG welding is more dangerous to a pace make then stick welding or do they pose the same amount of risk?


The pacer manufacturers do not seem to differentiate these. The risk is basically an induced current in the pacemaker sensing lead that would be misread as cardiac activity.  I do not know how high frequency starting in TIG might affect this. I suspect it would not. My thought is that the main risk is the high amperage welding current. If that is close to your chest it could induce current in the pacemaker leads. Boston Sci makes the statement that a welder with a pacer should avoid short pulses of welding since that could be misread as heartbeat. I assume pulse TIG set at the wrong frequency could also be a problem. Anything between 40-250 pulses per sec could probably get misread by the pacemaker. That being said, stick is theoretically safer since there is typically no pulsing involved (and no HF start.)
I got me a cardiologist I can follow up with and ask what they do. I'm pretty sure he will say "CYA and follow the manufacturers recommendations." I am also pretty sure he doesn't know the difference between a TIG torch and a hammer. (No offense intended to any cardiologists reading this, tools are just not his thing!)
Robert


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## matthewsx (Oct 28, 2021)

rwm said:


> The pacer manufacturers do not seem to differentiate these. The risk is basically an induced current in the pacemaker sensing lead that would be misread as cardiac activity.  I do not know how high frequency starting in TIG might affect this. I suspect it would not. My thought is that the main risk is the high amperage welding current. If that is close to your chest it could induce current in the pacemaker leads. Boston Sci makes the statement that a welder with a pacer should avoid short pulses of welding since that could be misread as heartbeat. I assume pulse TIG set at the wrong frequency could also be a problem. Anything between 40-250 pulses per sec could probably get misread by the pacemaker. That being said, stick is theoretically safer since there is typically no pulsing involved (and no HF start.)
> I got me a cardiologist I can follow up with and ask what they do. I'm pretty sure he will say "CYA and follow the manufacturers recommendations." I am also pretty sure he doesn't know the difference between a TIG torch and a hammer. (No offense intended to any cardiologists reading this, tools are just not his thing!)
> Robert



Different tools for a different job....


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## FOMOGO (Oct 28, 2021)

Just speculating here, but is there any kind of vest or other protective device that might mitigate the effects? Mike


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## rwm (Oct 28, 2021)

FOMOGO said:


> Just speculating here, but is there any kind of vest or other protective device that might mitigate the effects? Mike


I was wondering about that? If the HF start caused a problem a vest like a Faraday cage might help? Would that stop a low frequency magnetic field from inducing a current? I am thinking no?
Robert


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## Boswell (Oct 29, 2021)

FOMOGO said:


> Just speculating here, but is there any kind of vest or other protective device that might mitigate the effects?


Aluminum foil hat and vest .  Might also have the useful side effect of keeping the neighbors from coming over to borrow tools


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## Flyinfool (Oct 29, 2021)

FOMOGO said:


> Just speculating here, but is there any kind of vest or other protective device that might mitigate the effects? Mike


I suppose something like an old suit of armor made from MuMetal and then properly anealed.......


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