# PM Site Updated



## darkzero (Mar 27, 2013)

Just notice the site has been updated last week. A few new mill offerings. The PM-935T & PM-932M look nice! Price on the PM-45-CNC is much cheaper than I expected.


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## Ray C (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes, and by the way, you can buy the base model of the CNC machine without most of the electronics and add it later as finances allow.  The base machine is around $4000.

Ray


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## HangLoose (Mar 28, 2013)

Noticed it as well, and just when I thought I was set on the PM-45M the PM-932M pops up lol! Oh well the more options the better 
Looking forward to seeing some detail on the new mills!


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## HangLoose (Apr 27, 2013)

Put the down payment on the PM-932M 
Can't wait!


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## darkzero (Apr 27, 2013)

HangLoose said:


> Put the down payment on the PM-932M
> Can't wait!



AWESOME Nalu! Congrats brotha!


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## Ray C (Apr 27, 2013)

What took you so long?  LOL...  Good luck!




HangLoose said:


> Put the down payment on the PM-932M
> Can't wait!


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## GaryK (Apr 27, 2013)

HangLoose said:


> Put the down payment on the PM-932M
> Can't wait!



Very cool! Don't forget the pics!

Gary


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## alan camby (Apr 29, 2013)

Why did they add the PM 932M? I don't see much of a difference from it to the PM45M?
Am I missing something? Biggest advantage I see is that the 932 has 5" of quill travel.

I have been talking to Matt about the new 9x35. I really like that machine, just having a hard time pulling the trigger on a $6500 machine (after i add DRO and X power).  The head is a full size milling head on a 2/3 size machine. 
I really like how It would have a ram, 12" of Y travel, 24" of X travel, a knee, and tilt and nod head.

Do you guys give up rigidity with the PM45M compared to a full size Bridgeport clone?
Do you ever need more Y travel? 8" does not seem like much. The 9x35 has 12" plus you have the ram travel if needed.

PM45M PDF is $2600, + $300 X power feed, + $750 DRO = $3650

I would hate to spend that much money and regret not getting the 9x35


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## darkzero (Apr 29, 2013)

alan camby said:


> Why did they add the PM 932M? I don't see much of a difference from it to the PM45M?
> Am I missing something? Biggest advantage I see is that the 932 has 5" of quill travel.



Probabably for the same reason Grizzly added the G0750G over the G4003G lathe. Not many differences but it's available from the CM & better for Matt to offer more options.

Really, I don't see that much of a difference as far as the base machine. Not sure if the specs are accurate as the PM932M is listed as having an ever so slightly smaller table & X-travel as well as a smaller dia quill over the PM45M. I really speculated both mills as being the same exact base unit (based off the RF-45). Just the PM45M comes standard with coolant & has variable speed option & that the PM932M comes standard with X & Z power feeds along with the cast iron base but no coolant (unless I missed that somewhere).

If the PM932M was available at the time, I would have chose that over the PM45M as the coolant & variable speed option are not important to me but then again I have no regrets getting the PM45M.

I don't see the quill travel as an advantage/difference though. The PM45M is listed as having a 4-3/4" travel but my PM45M has just over 5" of travel. I'm not sure if that's because I have the PDF model though.












alan camby said:


> Do you guys give up rigidity with the PM45M compared to a full size Bridgeport clone?
> Do you ever need more Y travel? 8" does not seem like much.



Probably so. It's been a while since I've had machine time on real BPs but it was not a lot. I do remember BPs being more rigid but again I can't really make that good of a comparison as it has been a while. But they are two totally different animals though which are not in the same type of class. I would like to have more Y travel though. I ran out of Y travel & learned that a 5" vise can not be used to it's full capacity on this mill. But more Y means entering the realm of a full size knee mill.

Here's my Y maxed out & that's with the Z axis chip guard unmounted & lifted up for more clearance as it hits the vise. I probably could have gained sufficient travel if I removed the Y axis/base chip guard & unmounted the X axis DRO scale but I wasn't about to do all that & found a different solution to make the cut.










alan camby said:


> PM45M PDF is $2600, + $300 X power feed, + $750 DRO = $3650
> I would hate to spend that much money and regret not getting the 9x35



That PM935T sure does look nice though. If that was available at the time, I would have done my best to try & get that! I was drooling over a Modern 935VS-1 at the time which the PM935T looks to be the same type of beast. But that's considerably more & not sure I could get that setup in my garage. That's borderline too much machine for me. Maybe one day.


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## Ray C (Apr 29, 2013)

I asked Matt about the 935 a while ago and the answer surprised me...  Basically he carries it because Grizz carries one similar.  It's a good machine but, I personally am very happy with my PM 45.   I'm saving my pennies now for the big guns CNC machine.  Yes, you heard it here frist.  -That's right, Ray wants a CNC.  It's going to be a year at least.  All the jobs I do contribute to nearly 70% of my equipment purchases.

Yes, a BP is a more stout machine but the 45 is the next best thing going in it's class.   In terms of spindle speeds and horsepower, they're on par as most BPs are belt driven (which is a Pain) with a 1-2 HP motor.  The 45 has (as I recall) a 1.5 HP motor -and the advantage of lever-operated speed changes.  On a few occasions, the 8" Y caused me to reposition a piece but once you make that mistake a couple times, you get smarter about setup and learn to avoid it.

Ray


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## qualitymachinetools (Apr 29, 2013)

Hey Guys,
 Yes the reason I have the PM-932M Machine now, was to compete with Grizzly. So many people were calling about the PM-45M and comparing adding power feed to it, to the Grizzly price, but that other mill (The Grizzly and PM-932M) is cheaper, no question about it. I could not get the price any lower.

  I love the PM-45M Mills, we use them a lot for a bunch of different things. That new 932M is a good deal, but I took some things off to match Grizzly, (Coolant, work light, etc) but added the quill DRO.

 The coolant and work light add a couple hundred, but nobody sees the fine details. (You guys do, but not the average customer)

 They see Power Table Feed and Cast Iron Base, and the power up/down on the head. So which really, the mill is a good machine and a good deal, and I guess a lot of people do not use the coolant anyway, and a work light is easy enough to get one, like a magnetic one.

  I am also working on some real nice Taiwan bench mills like these too, but a bit heavier machine. I like them, great machines, but I am worried at the $3500-$4000 price, not sure if they will do good in the middle there, or people will just go with the knee mills. 

 And yes Will that is the same basic machine as the Modern 935 mill. I met a few of the guys from Modern Tool recently in Taiwan, they were really a nice couple of guys.  

 I have a new CNC Mill coming out too, with tool changer, etc. Called a Smartmill. It is also built in Taiwan. Its not cheap, but not crazy, its around $11,000-$13,000 with the tool changer and everything. I have a lot coming out soon, just working on the details. 
   Soon here I want to start making a mill like the PM-30 that we have, but again, need the time. And another warehouse, and some people who can program and run machines. And a good foundry. 
 Heck after I see what the machines sell for in Europe, I could concentrate on that market, there are machines I would sell here for $3800 that they sell there for the equivalent of $7000! 

  Trying to hire someone for some reason is so hard around here, I need someone who not only can run the equipment, but also help on the phone, and answer emails. Anyone I know who can do that is already in business for themselves it seems. Any of you guys live in Pittsburgh?  ha ha


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## darkzero (Apr 29, 2013)

Hey Matt, just wondering, is the base machine of the PM932M the exact same as the PM45M? Or are the different specs on the table & quill accurate? Can't wait till Nalu gets his so I can see more pics!




qualitymachinetools said:


> And yes Will that is the same basic machine as the Modern 935 mill. I met a few of the guys from Modern Tool recently in Taiwan, they were really a nice couple of guys.



Thanks for confirming Matt, really glad you are offering that now & not glad that I don't have one!




qualitymachinetools said:


> Trying to hire someone for some reason is so hard around here, I need someone who not only can run the equipment, but also help on the phone, and answer emails. Anyone I know who can do that is already in business for themselves it seems. Any of you guys live in Pittsburgh? ha ha



Ha, too bad I don't live there! Move to Socal! :ups:

I could make more gadgets for you every day!


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## qualitymachinetools (Apr 30, 2013)

Actually, the base machine of the PM-45M, and the PM-932M, are not the same machine, they are different, from different factories. 

   The PM-932M factory model used to be cheapened up, to make the price lower. But I had them change a few things, and told them I would rather pay a little more for quality, and they get that. 

 So to be exact, the "Other" Company is paying 8% less than we do at the factory, (Not figuring in the quill DRO we have standard) but I would rather pay just a little bit extra, for the better things in it.

  And I have learned, when they are happier about the price, they are a lot more careful to do a better job, and things turn out better, always. (Us)

 When the owner of the factory is sitting in his office late at night scratching his head, wondering how the heck they are going to meet the price they are told to meet, that does not put anyone in a good position, and they have to rush things out the door and cut costs somewhere to make even a 2% profit. Then they have time limits for each step, so if its not right, it goes anyway.

 But when you pay a bit more, it shows. 

 What would you rather do if you could pick, make 500 machines and pump them out the door, or make 100 machines and take a little more time on them, and make the same exact profit in the end? 

  So anyway, its no secret this machine is the same base model as the other one, but it will be just a little bit better, longer warranty, and same price (If you figure in the Quill DRO which makes up for the $50)


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## alan camby (Apr 30, 2013)

I measured my Central Machinery round column Y axis travel today at 7-3/4"

My spindle center line to front of column is right at 7-7/8"
What is this measurement on the PM45M and PM932M?

On my Central machinery I find that the drill press handles are always getting in the way. Most of the time I just take the handles off and use the inching dial on the front of the head. I looked at the pictures and watched the video of the PM45pdf and thought to my self that those rotating handles are going to get in my way.
Maybe the handles could be shortened. What do those 2 screws do in the middle of the power feed handle hub. Do those adjust or free wheel the handles?

Does anyone here use the precision PM Vise? I tried to zoom in and it appears to say made in Taiwan. Any regrets on the PM vise?
I was looking at the 6-8" precision model. 5" would probably work fine but for just a little more there is a huge difference in the opening travel.
Or is it better to spend a few hundered more and get a Kurt 8.8 (D688)?


Thanks


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## tripletap3 (Apr 30, 2013)

qualitymachinetools said:


> Actually, the base machine of the PM-45M, and the PM-932M, are not the same machine, they are different, from different factories.
> 
> The PM-932M factory model used to be cheapened up, to make the price lower. But I had them change a few things, and told them I would rather pay a little more for quality, and they get that.
> 
> ...



Matt, I am so glad you posted that explanation. This is a good read for anyone price comparison shopping machines that "look alike" but from different dealers.

- - - Updated - - -

*I **am in love with the new new PM-935! *I really like my small 8X32 knee mill but the Z axis is limited and I don't have room or need for a full size Bridgeport. The new PM-935 looks like a perfect compromise for me. Dang it, I guess I will start saving my money again.


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## qualitymachinetools (May 3, 2013)

From the spindle center to the ways is right around 10", maybe a tiny more without the way covers on. (Same on both machines)

 And the drill press type handles I guess could get in the way, sometimes they do I guess, but I've never noticed a problem really.

 For the vises, thats up to you. Kurt is the best, and the original, no question. As far as quality, I would say these Taiwan vises are 99.9% as good as the Kurt, but of course, Kurt is the original. Made in the USA too which I like, but probably double the price or more with the base.

 And I have a different knee mill coming out soon too, its only going to save a little bit over the 935 though. It will be an 8x30, with a full sized head, power quill, but a little smaller machine than the 935. And it will still have the knee.

     And yes guys any time you have a question about something, feel free to ask me, theres a lot more involved than some people will say, a lot think it is just order a container of machines, and sell them. Many do that, but not me. Sometimes its hard to get them to change things, but they will. 

 I wish I could get the prices on the knee mills lower, but they are at the very bottom. But its worth every penny, they are very, very, very nice machines. But also not cheap. But you do get what you pay for with them, absolutely top of the line quality.


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## Dan_S (Aug 31, 2013)

qualitymachinetools said:


> I am also working on some real nice Taiwan bench mills like these too, but a bit heavier machine. I like them, great machines, but I am worried at the $3500-$4000 price, not sure if they will do good in the middle there, or people will just go with the knee mills.



Hey Matt,

These new bench mills wouldn't happen to be a bf-46 style machine with a 30/40 taper spindle would they? I'm a good 3 to 6 months out from ordering a machine, and I'm torn between the PM-45M-PDF (with x feed), PM-932M-PDF, and a bf46 (with x feed). The bf is more (actually a lot more), but it has extra Y travel, and the 30/40 taper spindle makes it easy to dip your toes into production grade tooling cheaply.


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## qualitymachinetools (Sep 3, 2013)

No its not the same machine as the BF-46 that I am working on. Actually, that BF-46 is a Chinese machine, and the price on it is just crazy from Optimum.
   The other mills I am working on are from Taiwan, and are cheaper than that mill.

 Also though, I can get the PM-932M and PM-45M Mills with a #30 spindle, thats not a problem. The spindle is only about $150, I even have one in stock. So if you really wanted a #30, no problem at all.


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## Dan_S (Sep 4, 2013)

qualitymachinetools said:


> No its not the same machine as the BF-46 that I am working on. Actually, that BF-46 is a Chinese machine, and the price on it is just crazy from Optimum.


Yea, I have read that the ways are hand scraped, and so many people automatically assume that it is thus better than a machine with machine scraped on non scraped ways. The first thought that popped into my mind, was did the guy doing the scraping know what he was doing.



qualitymachinetools said:


> The other mills I am working on are from Taiwan, and are cheaper than that mill.



Any idea when these are going to hit the street, or when you can give us some specs?






qualitymachinetools said:


> Also though, I can get the PM-932M and PM-45M Mills with a #30 spindle, thats not a problem. The spindle is only about $150, I even have one in stock. So if you really wanted a #30, no problem at all.



Awesome, that puts one more tick mark in the PM column.


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