# 4 Jaw Chuck Collet Holder



## MattM (Jul 2, 2017)

Last night I was watching an Abom video on cutting a taper on a Monarch.  He used a collet holder that he chucked into a 4 jaw.

I want one but have been unable to find a supplier.  Any Ideas?


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Jul 2, 2017)

if you are referring to square collet blocks,
they are readily available from Shars, JTS, all industrial tool supply,  Ebay, etc.,  for around $60 a set.
some collet block kits have both a square and a hex collet holder.
you'll need a collet to insert into the collet block in order to use the system
as a point of information, 5c is a common type collet for collet blocks.


----------



## MattM (Jul 2, 2017)

No, this was a round holder.


----------



## mksj (Jul 2, 2017)

You need to specify the collet system, there are lots of different holders depending on the collet system. This is a round one made by Kalamazoo and PBA. You also need to look at the limitations of the collets system, such as clamping range and number of collets needed in a complete set. Something like 5C, the collets come in 1/64" increments. An ER collet system have a much wider clamping range, so you would need much fewer collets to cover the range. If you only are using the collets occasionally, then a collet block is much less expensive then a chuck system.
http://www.kalamazooind.com/products/5c-collet-fixtures/1cc-5c-collet-fixture-for-chucks/
http://www.prattburnerd.com/detail.php?p=CC&l=CCL&m=QC5


----------



## MattM (Jul 2, 2017)

That is exactly what I'm looking for.  Thank you.


----------



## MattM (Jul 2, 2017)

This is exactly what I want.  Went to the website(s), no prices or way to order.
 How can I order one?


----------



## higgite (Jul 2, 2017)

Here ya go, Matt.
http://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/ka5cc...xAepvu9yZ_IlSkTr2yd4w47W9Ymd8eqYaAoA-EALw_wcB

Tom


----------



## MattM (Jul 2, 2017)

higgite said:


> Here ya go, Matt.
> http://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/ka5cc...xAepvu9yZ_IlSkTr2yd4w47W9Ymd8eqYaAoA-EALw_wcB
> 
> Tom



Thanks, not sure I want to pay $400.00.  After all I do have a collet chuck.  Would be nice not to have to pull the 4 jaw to chuck collets, but $400.00 bucks?  Nice to know it is available, maybe later.


----------



## whitmore (Jul 2, 2017)

MattM said:


> Would be nice not to have to pull the 4 jaw to chuck collets, but $400.00 bucks?



If your four-jaw has a clear center bore, you might be able to fit a simple collar collet closer into its throat, and
run a drawtube through the spindle to operate it.   The jaws would simply be pulled out of the
way, or removed, because the drawtube would hold the collet and the collar.

It won't be terribly accurate, or easy to insert/remove.   Less of a chore, however, than yanking a really
big four-jaw chuck.


----------



## kd4gij (Jul 2, 2017)

MattM said:


> Thanks, not sure I want to pay $400.00.  After all I do have a collet chuck.  Would be nice not to have to pull the 4 jaw to chuck collets, but $400.00 bucks?  Nice to know it is available, maybe later.



It wouldn't be to hard to make something like that.  This could be a good start
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vertical-5-...539185?hash=item51e896aab1:g:US4AAOSweXhXmLio


----------



## MattM (Jul 2, 2017)

kd4gij said:


> It wouldn't be to hard to make something like that.  This could be a good start
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vertical-5-...539185?hash=item51e896aab1:g:US4AAOSweXhXmLio


That's what I was thinking.  I have a similar tool with a nut that screws down to tighten the collet.  I could cannibalize that but I'm going to try to make one from scratch once I get my 10EE back in service.  It blew a $500.00 tube which is on its way from Sydney.

Is there a 5c reamer I could use or should I use the taper attachment?


----------



## kd4gij (Jul 2, 2017)

I use the taper attachment. And adjust it with the dro or .0005 dti.


----------



## MattM (Jul 3, 2017)

kd4gij said:


> I use the taper attachment. And adjust it with the dro or .0005 dti.



I'll try that.  A 5c reamer is about as expensive as the complete tool.  Never cut an internal taper...  Might be making a lot of scrap.  I'll post pics if it turns out.  I guess I could hone it to exact size with an old collet.


----------



## kd4gij (Jul 3, 2017)

I would mount your collet chuck on the lathe and a .0005 dti  in your tool post. Set the taper to 10deg than adjust till you get 0 deflection on the DTI running it down the taper.
Do that with the lathe off of cores And remember to back the carriage up enough to get the back lash out of the taper  attachment before you get to the start of the cut.


----------



## MattM (Jul 3, 2017)

kd4gij said:


> I would mount your collet chuck on the lathe and a .0005 dti  in your tool post. Set the taper to 10deg than adjust till you get 0 deflection on the DTI running it down the taper.
> Do that with the lathe off of cores And remember to back the carriage up enough to get the back lash out of the taper  attachment before you get to the start of the cut.



Thank you.  

 I'll give it a try after I get the  project now on the lathe off the lathe after I get my $500.00 tube from Monarch.  ( At least it wasn't one of the BIG tubes.)


----------



## MattM (Jul 7, 2017)

OK.  Got it done.





I used the nut and handle from a static collet holder I got from Grizzly.  The rest I made out of the scrap pile.  Didn't have a 1.25 drill bit so had to bore to size.  Did every operation except threading on my Clausing because the 10EE was down.  Did the threading on the 10EE.  If I was doing this again I'd do everything on the Monarch.

I think I will make another "just because" and give it to a friend.  If I do I'd make the nut which may stretch my abilities since I've never done internal threading.  Instead of using a handle I'd drill holes for a spanner.  I tried it out and it seemed to work fine...better than spending $400.00.


----------



## whitmore (Jul 7, 2017)

MattM said:


> I used the nut and handle from a static collet holder I got from Grizzly. ... [may also make a ]  nut which may stretch my abilities since I've never done internal threading.  Instead of using a handle I'd drill holes for a spanner.



That style actually has the nut bearing on the face of the collet?  That works best if
you have some sort of slippery metal (brass or bronze) in contact.   It would 
have to clear the largest work the collet holds (1.125" on some 5C
collets), and won't close on other 5C accessories.

It's not just internal threads to worry about, the cone contact surface has to be
well-finished, and (for best centering) the threads have to have minimal clearance.
Buttress threading would help (if the thread tolerance is loose, a buttress thread
form doesn't 'pull' the collet sideways, would generally self-center).

A closer nut on the collet threads, on the other hand,  could be tightened with a 
ratchet or pin wrench from below, or with a suitable spanner.   It's an easier build, IMHO.

And in a lathe, maybe you could just make a long wrench that goes through the
bore to tighten and loosen it.


----------



## MattM (Jul 7, 2017)

It does have the nut bearing on the collet face.  Brass or bronze?  I could do that.

Never heard of "Buttress threading" but then again I've never heard of many things.

My thinking is this tool does not have to be dead nutz accurate.  Chuck it in a 4 jaw, indicate it in to 1-2 thou then put the collet and work in the collet chuck, tighten it down then indicate on the work.  Now this is not going to be as accurate as using a collet chuck and avoiding the 4 jaw but it saves the time and trouble of removing a heavy 4 jaw. 

I like the idea of a nut on the backside.  Can't exactly picture that.  Let me sleep on it.


----------



## whitmore (Jul 8, 2017)

MattM said:


> Never heard of "Buttress threading" but then again I've never heard of many things.



Buttress threads are asymmetric; like square threads facing one direction, sloped
in the other.    It's most often seen on toothpaste tube closures.   With load on the
square-side of the threads, the nut doesn't self-center on the axis, nor give/take any radial
force (doesn't expand and split the cap, or compress the toothpaste tube aperture closed).


----------

