# Metal Lathe ??????



## russ498 (Jul 25, 2022)

I am getting ready to order n 8X16 metal lathe. Budget dictates that it be an Asian machine. None of the ads indicate what sized cutter bits to buy. I see 1/4", 3/8" and 5/16", as well as 8mm and 10mm. Is there a way to adjust the height of the cutter so that it meets the centerline. It looks like they index on the bottom of the bit, so they would each meet the work at a different height.

Second, I am looking at Amazon as the primary source for all of the add ons and accessories. Is there another source. I prefer to give my business to small shops, even if it costs a little more, within reason.
mdd
Last, how about suggestions on machines. I can't spend more than $1500. I know most of them are made in the same Chinese factory, but I'm told that retailers make substantial changes both good and bad. They all look similar, but.....


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## Aukai (Jul 25, 2022)

Welcome, Little Machine shop has the high torque 7 x 16, I'm not sure how it stacks up, the small lathe guys will be along.


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## markba633csi (Jul 25, 2022)

Welcome to the wonderful world of shims  or if you can spend another 100$ or so, a quick change tool post (QCTP)
Little Machine Shop is a good place to find hobby lathe stuff and their return policy is good.
1/4" HSS tool bits are pretty much the standard size for home shops
Consider investing in a small bench grinder and roll your own cutting tools- it's the only way to fly
-Mark
I would recommend not buying a lathe thru Amazon-  LMS has better support
Stay away from Bolton also


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## russ498 (Jul 25, 2022)

I have a bench grinder and a Tormek I use for woodturning tools.


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## ClintNZ (Jul 25, 2022)

Smaller HSS bits like 1/4 are commonly used in a tool holder like this or some other variation:







Then you pack it up with strips of sheetmetal to get the cutting point on centre. 3/8-5/16" HSS is often used directly in the toolpost. So you just need to make sure your tools aren't too high. Maybe 10-12mm shank for an 8" lathe. It's best to figure out the biggest tool holder that will fit in your toolpost without the bit being too high & use that. 

A quick change toolpost (QCTP) has adjustment built in, set & forget for each tool holder. Very handy but if you're on a budget that may be a purchase for later.

Cheers
Clint


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## jakes_66 (Jul 25, 2022)

Lantern/rocker style toolpost holders with the crescent shape bottom (like below) will give you a little adjustability by simply tipping the tool up or down before tightening the top screw, although you will sacrifice some tool approach geometry by doing so.  Shimming is the slower but technically correct method if you have a flat-bottom version or a turret style holder.






Most quick change toolposts will offer vertical adjustability with a thumbscrew on a threaded rod:





I'm with Mark on this one.  Use 1/4" size starting out and purchase more after you've gotten a better idea of your needs, it will machine 90% of what a hobby machinist gets into.  I know Amazon will be cheaper for the initial purchase, but LMS will be a tremendous resource for help and for the myriad of other tools/machines/supplies you'll need down the road.  

JMHO,

-Jake


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## matthewsx (Jul 25, 2022)

Hello and welcome.

I've owned a few lathes and nothing that cost over $1500, most expensive was a little over half that.

I'm not sure what's driving your purchase decision but if you have enough space you can often find used lathes with far more capability within the budget you've set out. Also, buying used sometimes comes with tooling that, as you have probably figured out, can cost as much or more than the machine itself.

Since you're in Maryland I highly recommend you reach out to Dave @mmcmdl he may not have what you're looking for but many members here have been happy dealing with him and he may be able to help you find/evaluate a used machine.

If you have your heart set on a new lathe I'd suggest budgeting a little more unless you already know that you'll only be working on small stuff mostly in soft materials.

Look around on here and read some of the many "what lathe should I get" threads. One informative one is from member @DavidR8 

He started with a small import machine and quickly learned the shortcomings of same. 

Don't get me wrong, plenty of folks do good work with these machines but getting the best from them requires much more than taking it out of the box and plugging it in.

Cheers,

John


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## mmcmdl (Jul 25, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> Since you're in Maryland I highly recommend you reach out to Dave @mmcmdl he may not have what you're looking for but many members here have been happy dealing with him and he may be able to help you find/evaluate a used machine.


FWIW , I invited a new member on here a few years ago who has equipment and who is down in Pasadena . His member name is/was pasadena redneck ( I can not find him in our current member list though ) . There was a very large shop that had equipment out the butt that we went thru together , and I posted many pics of the equipment on here . He has a waterfront home and a big ash boat also !  Former Unilever co-worker .

I'll reach out to him to what's up . Last time he was here he bought an arbor press , surface plate and a few other things when he was starting up .
Any ways , welcome aboard . I'll see what I can do as far as checking around .


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## mmcmdl (Jul 25, 2022)

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/conversations/welcome-aboard-ron.55732/#convMessage-105247
		


So I did find this PM when He joined , so he may be here somewhere still . I just can't find him , same as when we worked together .


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## ChazzC (Jul 25, 2022)

russ498 said:


> I am getting ready to order n 8X16 metal lathe. Budget dictates that it be an Asian machine. None of the ads indicate what sized cutter bits to buy. I see 1/4", 3/8" and 5/16", as well as 8mm and 10mm. Is there a way to adjust the height of the cutter so that it meets the centerline. It looks like they index on the bottom of the bit, so they would each meet the work at a different height.
> 
> Second, I am looking at Amazon as the primary source for all of the add ons and accessories. Is there another source. I prefer to give my business to small shops, even if it costs a little more, within reason.
> mdd
> Last, how about suggestions on machines. I can't spend more than $1500. I know most of them are made in the same Chinese factory, but I'm told that retailers make substantial changes both good and bad. They all look similar, but.....



Happened to see this yesterday:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/447590547229814/

It turns out that it belongs to an acquaintance who has it pending your interest: please let me know so I can get back to him (or message him directly on FB referencing this forum.

I know it’s smaller than you want, but would be a good starter.


Charlie


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## matthewsx (Jul 25, 2022)

A well sorted Atlas make a fine starter lathe.


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## Jim F (Jul 26, 2022)

There is a 6" Atlas/Craftsman in York for $475.
A Seneca Falls 9x5 in Jonestown for $275.


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## mmcmdl (Jul 26, 2022)

I'll make a call and we'll see what is left in the shop . He did have big and small stuff , and a lot of stuff . He made ammunition and weapons that were top secret back in the day . I was interested in a few things but couldn't do it at the time . I'll go back and try to find the pictures , unless you want to . I know they are in my content page maybe 2-3 years back .


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## great white (Jul 26, 2022)

If you decide to go used and want an Atlas, I'd suggest waiting until you find at least a 10". Anything with a smaller swing than that and you're probably going to outgrow it pretty fast. I know there's lots of times I wish my 10" was the larger 12". It's a common thing with  lathes; it's only a matter of time before you find you want something with a bigger swing. There's also the point that most (not all) of the parts that fit a 10" atlas can be reused on a 12" atlas. But, you have to make sure a part you buy actually interchanges between the 10" and the 12". The headstock is taller on a 12", so the tailstock is taller, the top compound is taller, etc. Most of the gears and mechanical bits fit either or though.

Atlas(Clausing) also still sells parts for the old Atlas lathes, but it seems it's less and less every year. Doesn't seem to be any shortage of used parts on ebay, everybody just seems to think they're made of gold. BUt they sold a lot of these lathes when new, so there's lots of these machines around which means parts availabity is fairly decent for a 70-ish year old lathe.

I say go as big as you can afford for the first one. Just make sure f you're buying used you know what to check to assess if it has excessive wear and if you can repair it economically. Things like half nuts and such are pretty much considered wear items and will either need replacement or will soon enough after you put it to regular use.

Go big, unless you plan to ever only do small work that will fit the swing of something like the 101.....


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## mmcmdl (Jul 26, 2022)

$1500 can buy a nice lathe in a 10" size . You go up to $2500 and you can get a 13" lathe . Depending on space and what your needs are , it's something to think about . The thou extra gets you 2 thou in tooling alone providing you have the space . The OP is always welcome to make a visit to the showroom up my way for help .


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## taiwanluthiers (Aug 1, 2022)

russ498 said:


> I am getting ready to order n 8X16 metal lathe. Budget dictates that it be an Asian machine. None of the ads indicate what sized cutter bits to buy. I see 1/4", 3/8" and 5/16", as well as 8mm and 10mm. Is there a way to adjust the height of the cutter so that it meets the centerline. It looks like they index on the bottom of the bit, so they would each meet the work at a different height.
> 
> Second, I am looking at Amazon as the primary source for all of the add ons and accessories. Is there another source. I prefer to give my business to small shops, even if it costs a little more, within reason.
> mdd
> Last, how about suggestions on machines. I can't spend more than $1500. I know most of them are made in the same Chinese factory, but I'm told that retailers make substantial changes both good and bad. They all look similar, but.....


Your lathe will likely have a 4 way tool post. This is what something like 99% of all Asian (and American) machines are going to have. As for cutter size, don't buy anything until you get the machine, but chances are if it fits a AXA quick change tool post, you should be fine up to 1/2".

I'm also going to mirror other's response and buy the biggest lathe your budget allows. If you can get a 12 inch lathe used at your budget, get that.


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## Dabbler (Aug 1, 2022)

@mmcmdl it looks like your pasadena friend is no longer a member.  He may have deleted himself.  (or do I have the first part of his member name wrong?)


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## Dabbler (Aug 1, 2022)

@russ498 I started with a 12X37 and needed to go bigger.  much bigger.  My first lathe was 750 lbs, next was 1750 lbs and my latest is 3700 lbs.  I still have all three...  (I have a small problem).

For just over 1000$ you should be able to find a decent lathe in your area.  Don't discount the South Bend 9A as a possibility.  it is a very capable lathe and much easier to use than a 7" Asian lathe in my experience.  All my friends that have bought those small 7X24 and 10X28 lathes have sold them and bought better (used) machines...  

that being said, if you end up with a lathe with a 4-way toolpost, I can help you get your tooling to be on centre without any shims.  

Best of luck in your search!


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## taiwanluthiers (Aug 1, 2022)

I think the biggest problem with a larger lathe is inability to crank up the RPM to get the best surface finish for smaller diameter stock. I mean some of the carbide inserts really want at least 3000 or higher RPM for good surface finish, and no lathes in the 12-20 inch range is capable of that RPM (nor can do it safely), seems CNC have no problem with this. 

But 7" asian lathes are not worth it. They have crap bearing (often ball bearing which doesn't belong on a lathe), crap leadscrew, requires you to change gears to change feed speed, often have crap nylon gears, have too small spindle bore, etc. 

Basically a waste of money. 

I still think the market needs a good 7" lathes capable of spinning up to 4000rpm though, for making small parts (such as watches) with good surface finish....


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## dewbane (Aug 21, 2022)

taiwanluthiers said:


> I think the biggest problem with a larger lathe is inability to crank up the RPM to get the best surface finish for smaller diameter stock. I mean some of the carbide inserts really want at least 3000 or higher RPM for good surface finish, and no lathes in the 12-20 inch range is capable of that RPM (nor can do it safely),


The other problem is power. Let's say you're cutting large diameter material where the surface speed is quite high. For once, it ought to be high enough to actually get a good surface finish with carbide. You touch the tool to the work, and it shoots out a tangle of metallic silly string. The long, unbroken chip wraps around the part and ruins the surface finish, and maybe flays the flesh from your bones too. You want to get the chip to break, you're using carbide, so have little control over tool geometry. About all you can do is increase the depth of cut to get the chips to break, and put and end to that silly string. (At least that's the only thing I know to do. I should in no way shape or form be considered any kind of expert or authority on anything.)

Cut the number of passes you were going to do in half, take a much more aggressive cut, the C's and 9's are flying, the surface finish is gorgeous, and... the light go off, because the breaker tripped. (Having lights on a separate circuit would be an excellent idea, but my panel is totally full.)

I gave up on getting a good surface finish with carbide with my 10" x 22". The spindle doesn't turn fast enough most of the time, and even when it does, the lathe lacks the power to do all the wonderful things you see the Youtube guys doing on their big tool room lathes.


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## taiwanluthiers (Aug 21, 2022)

dewbane said:


> The other problem is power. Let's say you're cutting large diameter material where the surface speed is quite high. For once, it ought to be high enough to actually get a good surface finish with carbide. You touch the tool to the work, and it shoots out a tangle of metallic silly string. The long, unbroken chip wraps around the part and ruins the surface finish, and maybe flays the flesh from your bones too. You want to get the chip to break, you're using carbide, so have little control over tool geometry. About all you can do is increase the depth of cut to get the chips to break, and put and end to that silly string. (At least that's the only thing I know to do. I should in no way shape or form be considered any kind of expert or authority on anything.)
> 
> Cut the number of passes you were going to do in half, take a much more aggressive cut, the C's and 9's are flying, the surface finish is gorgeous, and... the light go off, because the breaker tripped. (Having lights on a separate circuit would be an excellent idea, but my panel is totally full.)
> 
> I gave up on getting a good surface finish with carbide with my 10" x 22". The spindle doesn't turn fast enough most of the time, and even when it does, the lathe lacks the power to do all the wonderful things you see the Youtube guys doing on their big tool room lathes.


You need to use inserts that are designed for finishing... What I meant was larger lathes, ones more than 20 inch swing, can only spin at 1000rpm at most. Lathes between 12-16 inches can spin at 2000rpm at most. Problem is most those insert are designed for CNC which spins much faster. 

10 inch lathes are toys IMO. You really can't even cut more than half a millimeter depth on them.


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## mmcmdl (Aug 21, 2022)

CNC's have constant surface speed while manuals don't , thus you can program the speeds to the inserts you choose . The major difference in the cnc vs manual lathes is cncs don't break the inserts . The canned cycles automatically retract the cutting tool after each cut . Most inserts break when trying to hand feed to a stop which is pretty much pushing the material off . I had a max speed of 5000 rpm on the Makino CNC lathe . Depending on part size , I programmed a max speed of 2000-2500 RPM . Collet work you can crank it wide open , but larger parts will and DO come out of the chuck and break 3 layers of safety glass .


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