# Trying to get a building permit for a School Portable



## Janderso (Sep 10, 2021)

Last November I put a deposit down on a used double wide 24X40' school portable. Vintage 2008.
It has the state DSA, Department of Structural Architects plate on the unit. These buildings are in every school in the state.
We've been trying to satisfy the county throughout the application process.
We have approval on two of the three areas, planning and fire.
Structural deals with disabled access.
Our architect was out yesterday to deliver the bad news.
We need to remove the urinal in the main building, tear up the bathroom floor in order to move the toilet in the center of the room.
The bathroom doors need to be moved and reframed and the entry door needs to be two inches wider.
We will have six months before the first inspection and two years to complete the upgrades.
Hello, we are trying to put in a school portable for a service write up area.
A ramp and platform will need to be built at a cost of $9,000 to state standards.
I started this project last November because I wanted it completed before I retire. That's not happening.
I'm of the opinion these standards are state, not federal.
It will help our disabled customers by offering better access but so far they have never complained??


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## Dhal22 (Sep 10, 2021)

As a plumbing contractor my public/ commercial installations must conform to the American Disabilities Act.  You are looking at federal requirements not state in my opinion.


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## Dhal22 (Sep 10, 2021)

Toilet goes 18" from side wall,  tank flush handle not on side wall side.   ADA height toilet.   Grab bar behind and on side wall.


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## Nutfarmer (Sep 10, 2021)

It's very frustrating trying to run a business in California. I fully understand having public buildings accessible to everyone . The regulation and red tape keep many businesses from ever onpening. Not to mention the cost of all of it. There are a couple of disabled people that make a living by suing business over ADA. We lost Barkers General Store a few years back because of one of them. Now if you want a half gallon of milk it's a half hours drive. Wish we could just all work together.


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## aliva (Sep 10, 2021)

Not sure what the rules are in CA, but put some wheels underneath it's then classified as a mobile trailer. It might not have to conform to all the red tape. A friend of mine did this to his cottage and he was exempt from property taxes. It was considered temporary


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## pdentrem (Sep 10, 2021)

Seems like the toilet is the major issue.


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## matthewsx (Sep 10, 2021)

This is not limited to California, when I rehabbed the building we bought in Michigan for my old shop we needed to install a high/low drinking fountain, build a proper handicapped restroom, and demolish an existing concrete ramp to be replaced with one that had a slightly shallower pitch angle.

Yes, definitely a pain....

But as I discovered in 2007 when I had a tumor removed from my tibia getting around can be very difficult for the disabled. IMHO, your architect should have informed you of the requirements at the outset. There will be no getting around this but I wouldn't worry about your replacement getting it done.

As we get older this kind of stuff is likely to become more of an issue, taking care of my 90-year-old mom I'm acutely aware of how ADA rules make life easier for millions of people.

John


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## rabler (Sep 10, 2021)

While I support the gist of ADA, I’m really glad I live in an area where permits and inspections are not required for anything but a septic tank for residential construction.  New shop, no permits, no inspection other than the tax assessor.  Can’t avoid taxes


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## matthewsx (Sep 10, 2021)

AFAIK ADA compliance is only needed for commercial construction.

My house however was built for someone in a wheelchair and I can tell you that the 36" doors make moving furniture a breeze 

John


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## Superburban (Sep 10, 2021)

Its not so much the requirements I have an issue with, but how they are handled.  Why can't they make it easy? A few years ago, I wanted to get a shipping container for storage. First you need an approved site plan. So I make up a drawing of the property with the proposed location, and pay my $50, or so. After a few weeks, I got that approved After indicating I would paint it a tan color. Then I needed a building permit.Its a friggen box people, So after I cool down, I locate drawings on the internet of a standard shipping container. And submit them with a check for $50 plus change. They get rejected, because I do not have footers, or indicate the rated snow load, and several other things. I gave up, after being out over $100.

I can build all the under 120 sq ft sheds I want without the BS, so thats my plan, I will build a dozen or so sheds. But only after I finish this solid fence, so my neighbors cannot see my stuff sitting outside, which is outside because I was foolish enough to buy a place that did not have enough space for my collection, because I planned from the beginning to get a container like the neighbors have next door.


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## Winegrower (Sep 11, 2021)

I am kind of happy that the city planning commission will not approve shipping containers on my or my neighbors lots.


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## Larry$ (Sep 11, 2021)

Several shipping containers stacked and made into houses have been approved here. Takes a "special permit ." I wanted to put a two car garage on my side lot. That was OK but I couldn't have insulation, heating, A/C  or water. It was to be my tinkering shop. Temperatures here go from -30F to 105F. I gave up.


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## Superburban (Sep 11, 2021)

Winegrower said:


> I am kind of happy that the city planning commission will not approve shipping containers on my or my neighbors lots.


Well, the alternative here is going to be a bunch of horse stalls. Neighbor has one, thats what gave me the idea when I bought the place. My plan was to paint it the same tan as most houses around here, and put a pitched metal roof on it so it looks like a building. Now the plan is to build a horse stall every month or so until I have most things under cover.


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## jbolt (Sep 12, 2021)

ADA (Fed) deals with discrimination. In CA there is also Title 24, chapter 11 which deals with accessibility. The CA code includes all the ADA standards with some additions or stricter standards. Under CA T-24, Ch. 11 one can only sue a business for up to $1,000 for all violations found. Under ADA one can sue a business for up to $4,000 for each violation found. This is what the serial plaintiffs do, sue under ADA. Most times it is a shakedown of a business. "Hey, I found 10 violations. I can sue you for $40,000 but i'll go away for $20,000. Most of the serial plaintiifs are disabled lawers who have their minions scour small businesses for violations. Most small businesses cannot aford to go to court so will settle. Those who fight find it will cost more to defend than paying the shakedown. Some jurisdictions have caught on and limit the number of cases a plaintiff can bring within a time period. They just move on the next jurisdiction. 

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


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## silence dogood (Sep 12, 2021)

To show you how crazy these building permits can get.  A friend of mine is a well known artist and makes a living from it.  He bought a place in a rural area only about an acre.  He was not allowed to build an art studio.  So he put it as  a farm out building, which can be use as a studio.


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## bill70j (Sep 12, 2021)

We have snails - on our property in California.

Forget about doing anything that might disturb them.


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## Cadillac (Sep 12, 2021)

jbolt said:


> ADA (Fed) deals with discrimination. In CA there is also Title 24, chapter 11 which deals with accessibility. The CA code includes all the ADA standards with some additions or stricter standards. Under CA T-24, Ch. 11 one can only sue a business for up to $1,000 for all violations found. Under ADA one can sue a business for up to $4,000 for each violation found. This is what the serial plaintiffs do, sue under ADA. Most times it is a shakedown of a business. "Hey, I found 10 violations. I can sue you for $40,000 but i'll go away for $20,000. Most of the serial plaintiifs are disabled lawers who have their minions scour small businesses for violations. Most small businesses cannot aford to go to court so will settle. Those who fight find it will cost more to defend than paying the shakedown. Some jurisdictions have caught on and limit the number of cases a plaintiff can bring within a time period. They just move on the next jurisdiction.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


I saw a article that said their are a handful of disabled people that go around find someone not in compliance and file a complaint or sue them. From what I read they can come back ever day and file a complaint till resolved. Big money maker!!
   Interviewed owners say theyve never even seen the customer before. Then their there everyday. Idk those types are In it for the money and should be ashamed!!


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## Superburban (Sep 12, 2021)

Cadillac said:


> I saw a article that said their are a handful of disabled people that go around find someone not in compliance and file a complaint or sue them. From what I read they can come back ever day and file a complaint till resolved. Big money maker!!
> Interviewed owners say theyve never even seen the customer before. Then their there everyday. Idk those types are In it for the money and should be ashamed!!


When I lived in Pa, there was a group of individuals that would go around to stores, and video them not being able to reach something, or having a hard time entering through a door. Then they would file law suits, and often settle before going to court.

A good friend ended up closing his family's store. A person from over 100 miles away supposedly had trouble getting stuff from a cooler. When he decided to go to court instead of settling, he suddenly had people in wheel chairs coming to the store every day, with folks along to video what was happening. 1 suit turned into 50 plus.


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## Nutfarmer (Sep 13, 2021)

There has to be a balance. Public buildings need to be accessible to all. To allow someone to close a business down for a minor mistake is wrong


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## matthewsx (Sep 13, 2021)

This thread is treading dangerously close to political IMHO.

Rules are there for a reason, great thing about democracy is if you disagree you have a process for trying to change them.

I think your main challenge is trying to save money by buying old school portable buildings. Schools don't have to comply with the same zoning and code requirements as other public accommodations so they probably weren't built to comply in the first place. As hobby machinists we are probably all familiar with how much time, effort and money it can take to make something work for a purpose it wasn't intended for.

An automobile dealer should have enough cash flow to order new manufactured offices that comply with all requirements. We all want to save money for our bosses when we can but sometimes that path leads to frustration. 

The boss man can afford to pay to make it right and your only duty is to do your best until the day you retire. After that it's someone else's problem....

JMHO

John


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## Janderso (Sep 13, 2021)

aliva said:


> Not sure what the rules are in CA, but put some wheels underneath it's then classified as a mobile trailer. It might not have to conform to all the red tape. A friend of mine did this to his cottage and he was exempt from property taxes. It was considered temporary


I don't think this applies to a double wide.?


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## Janderso (Sep 13, 2021)

I agree, this topic is ripe for political comments and opinions.
I'm sorry I posted my frustrations.
To moderators,
Please delete the thread.


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