# New Poster, Want a Mill



## JoinerCP (Feb 23, 2017)

Hi everyone,

  I'm looking to purchase a mill for a combination of wood and metal working.  The glowing reviews about PM is making me lean in that direction. I need a decent capacity and ideally RPMs at least around the 4k range.   I was looking at the 833 and 940 but neither appear to meet the speed requirement. 

  I took a half semester machining course where we did a little bit of milling but the lessons have atrophied since then (about 18 months ago).  I will cut my teeth on this mill (not literally). 

  Can anyone make suggestions?


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## ewkearns (Feb 24, 2017)

You need to google "spindle speed multiplier" for an attachment to give you the RPM you want. Most solutions use a NMTB-40 or NMTB-50 taper. Yuasa™ used to make an R-8 model, but I think that was discontinued. So, you may have to buy a spindle design accordingly....


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## JoinerCP (Feb 24, 2017)

ewkearns said:


> You need to google "spindle speed multiplier" for an attachment to give you the RPM you want. Most solutions use a NMTB-40 or NMTB-50 taper. Yuasa™ used to make an R-8 model, but I think that was discontinued. So, you may have to buy a spindle design accordingly....



You're saying the only way to get to 4k+ speeds is to add a speeder/speed multiplier?  I would've certainly thought anything with Abec 5 or 7 bearings would be able to hit the 4-5k range without issue (assuming the motor was up to the task).   I'd still like to use regular R-8 tooling, face mills, etc and not be relegated to 1/2, 1/4, 1/8" shanks. Wouldn't a speeder limit the tooling that can be used?  I'm new to this so my apologies if I'm off base.

Does PM not carry a mill to meet these needs?


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## marcusp323 (Feb 24, 2017)

Why not call Matt & ask?


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## qualitymachinetools (Feb 24, 2017)

For higher speeds, Id recommend a mill like our PM-935T Series, those spindles will handle 4000-5000 RPM without a problem.   But in wood, routers and things are a lot faster than that, I believe normally around 20,000 RPM.   Although, over the years, I have cut many pieces of wood with a nice sharp end mill in the couple thousand RPM Range, and it worked fine. I was surprised how well it worked, so much better than any woodworking tool Ive ever used.   Not saying thats the right way to do it, but thats been my experience. I think even at 2000 RPM, it will cut wood faster than you can crank the table by hand or with a power feed. 
      Not saying a profile cutting router bit will cut that well at a slow speed like that, Ive only ever used end mills, but they worked much better than I would have expected, even at the slower speeds.  

  Does anyone else do it? Maybe some other comments from those who have?


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## ezduzit (Feb 24, 2017)

JoinerCP said:


> ...I'm looking to purchase a mill...can anyone make suggestions?



Be patient and look for a clean, used machine that comes with a comprehensive set of tooling. Avoid bare machines.


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## davidpbest (Feb 24, 2017)

I do slot cutting (mortising) on my benchtop mill at 3000 RPM in hardwoods, and it works great.   Not so good in softwoods like pine, fir, cedar - those species need higher RPM.   I have also successfully done round-over profiles, but would not attempt anything like a cope and stick cutter profile.


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## marcusp323 (Feb 24, 2017)

FWIW, I have used my 935 to inlet a few gun stocks without a problem. I just work slowly & don't take much off. Don't own much woodworking tooling, so I'm like Matt & use end mills 
Mark


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## ewkearns (Feb 25, 2017)

JoinerCP said:


> You're saying the only way to get to 4k+ speeds is to add a speeder/speed multiplier?  I would've certainly thought anything with Abec 5 or 7 bearings would be able to hit the 4-5k range without issue (assuming the motor was up to the task).   I'd still like to use regular R-8 tooling, face mills, etc and not be relegated to 1/2, 1/4, 1/8" shanks. Wouldn't a speeder limit the tooling that can be used?  I'm new to this so my apologies if I'm off base.
> 
> Does PM not carry a mill to meet these needs?



It isn't the bearings as much as it is the design parameters (intended use) of the machine. I don't know of any mills made to do woodworking and metalworking.... and screaming spindle speeds aren't necessary for milling metal.

Most woodworkers just don't have the need for x-y-z tables or feed screws and can get the requisite accuracy with a woodworking machine. There are some "milling machines" made for wood, but they are more like (wood) shapers on steroids.


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## davidpbest (Feb 25, 2017)

I know at least 10 woodworkers who have Tormach 1100's to do precision joinery on a milling machine.   The needs is out there and  there are machines mills that work well at it.


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## ewkearns (Feb 25, 2017)

davidpbest said:


> I know at least 10 woodworkers who have Tormach 1100's to do precision joinery on a milling machine.   The needs is out there and  there are machines mills that work well at it.



I think we just shifted gears a bit.... the OP seemed to be looking for a manual mill..... if he wants to upgrade to CNC, he'll get the spindle speed he wants. Seems like duck hunting with a Howitzer, to me, but to each his own.....


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## JoinerCP (Feb 25, 2017)

ewkearns said:


> I think we just shifted gears a bit.... the OP seemed to be looking for a manual mill..... if he wants to upgrade to CNC, he'll get the spindle speed he wants. Seems like duck hunting with a Howitzer, to me, but to each his own.....



Definitely looking for a manual mill right now. Someday I may be interested in CNC but not right now. As to your analogy, I don't think it fits the situation.  More appropriately, I'd liken it to duck hunting with a sniper rifle.  I'm after high precision.  I don't want to just hit the duck, I want to pierce the left ventricle. 

Thanks for all of the replies.  Sounds like if I go PM, I'll need at minimum, the 935. I really want the largest work holding capacity my dollar can get me.  Additional replies are appreciated.


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## xplodee (Feb 26, 2017)

Whats your budget? Why not a small cnc router? Or a bigger used one?


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## lpeedin (Feb 27, 2017)

I've milled wood several times with my PM727 at 1,700 rpm's.  With a sharp end mill, it worked very well.  I did one of my kids pinewood derby car this way and it work fantastically.  I used a carbide wood router bit that has a 1/4" radius to round the corners and again, it worked great.  I'm sure that the higher spindle speeds may help some, but the rigidity of the metal working machines definitely make up for the speed loss.


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## ezduzit (Feb 27, 2017)

When needed, for routing wood with small diameter router bits, why not simply devise a way of hanging a router over the X-Y table of an ordinary mill, if all you need is the table?


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## coherent (Feb 27, 2017)

_+1 When needed, for routing wood with small diameter router bits, why not simply devise a way of hanging a router over the X-Y table of an ordinary mill, if all you need is the table?_

As another alternative, I've seen folks make some fairly simple  spindle mounts and mount a high speed spindle or variable speed router to their mill. Just get the mill you want and add a air or water cooled spindle and VFD. Something with a quick connect mount and you'll have the best of both worlds. You can get the import spindles and VFDs for fairly cheap and there's lots of info and help on the web about them.
I haven't personally seen a manual mill with a stock spindle that covers the rpm ranges needed for both wood and metal. Do some research on the best mill to add CNC to and then down the road you'll be ready.  Lots of folks covert the smaller PM's and Grizzly's to CNC.


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