# Manual machining with a PM45 CNC mill



## zr8cnc (Mar 24, 2014)

Has anyone been able to use their PM45-cnc in manual mode while running the spindle? I want to have the freedom of being able to quickly run the mill as a manual machine but at the moment the stepper motors have the axis's locked when Mach3 is running. I obviously want the mach3 open so that I can use it as my DRO. Any input would be greatly appreciated 

thanks,


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## dave2176 (Mar 24, 2014)

I think you need to use jog and single line g code. They're not really meant to be dual purpose.

Dave


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## zr8cnc (Mar 24, 2014)

Really? that would suck


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 24, 2014)

never seen one in person, but it still has handwheels, i thought it was meant to be dual purpose???


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## dave2176 (Mar 24, 2014)

I thought the speed control was provided by Mach on this machine? Did I misunderstand the thread Ray started on his machine? If Mach controls the speed it must be on. Currently the Mach profile includes control for x, y and z axes so it will lock them, home them, etc. depending on what you tell it to do. It won't free them because it is not in control in that case. Do you create a second profile in Mach so that you can have it control some things, maybe spindle, coolant but remove the control for the x, y and z axes? Would that allow you to crank the handles? What about column elevation (Z)? No handle so you can't move it without Mach. You would be limited to the quill. 

As far as using Mach for the DRO in manual mode, won't work. It has stepper motors which do not include encoders to report position. It (Mach) assumes position based on steps taken (not missed steps) that Mach has move them from your set zero point. If it misses steps you are out of position. That is why configuration setup is so critical.

If spindle control is available without Mach then it looks like you have some manual ability dealing with head height. You have a great machine there, I think I would just use some manually entered g code for those times I wanted to make some simple cuts.

Dave


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 24, 2014)

i have no clue, but i would assume you can disable all the axis drives, or one at a time for that matter.  my initial research indicates it can possibly be done in the 'ports and pins' menu.


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## Ray C (Mar 24, 2014)

I have been trying to find time to look at this but, it seems to me, you can find the breaker for the VFD motor controllers and de-energize them.  This would not be convenient to easily switch back and forth though...


Ray


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## JimDawson (Mar 24, 2014)

Why not just pull the fuses or breaker on the stepper drives to disable them, I use this method for testing some systems. That way Mach3 can be on but can not run the drives.  Unless you have separate DRO scales, you will not get a read out on the Mach3 DRO.  It tells you where the motor should be, not where it actually is.  Mach3 has no idea if the drives are on or not.

Even if you disable the step motors, you will be turning against the resistance of the step motor unless you mechanically de-couple the motor.

If you don't have manual spindle control, you may have to write a little program that starts the spindle and sets the speed.


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## xalky (Mar 24, 2014)

I'm not absolutely sure but I believe, the DRO in mach doesn't feedback from the table movement ie: there are no scales on the table to actually measure movement. It is strictly an internal DRO that assumes that the motors actually moved the table. It counts the steps that are broadcast to the stepper motor and translates that to table movement. This is accomplished thru motor tuning in mach. 

If it's a servo system there is feedback from the motors, but even then, I'm not sure that you'd be able to disengage them and still keep the feedback portion of the motor intact.

To use your machine manually, you have to shut down mach, but then you'll have to install a seperate DRO system to show you table movement.


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## dave2176 (Mar 24, 2014)

Thomas Paine said:


> i have no clue, but i would assume you can disable all the axis drives, or one at a time for that matter.  my initial research indicates it can possibly be done in the 'ports and pins' menu.



Correct. 

Edit: Just start your Mach loader, choose create profile, clone from your working profile. 

Start Mach with that new profile go into ports and pins and disable X and Y. Leave Z so you can jog it. I think that will free the two steppers. 

I wouldn't edit my main working profile for nothing. 


Dave


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## jumps4 (Mar 25, 2014)

you cannot use mach3 as a dro in any manual mode with steppers, I'm not sure about servo motors if the axis is disabled. but for steppers if mach3 didn't move the motors it has no idea where they are.
manual use would require its own dro or direct reading the hand-wheel dials.
I purchased a hand held pendent on ebay for about $39 and run the machine with the buttons for quick operations
steve


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## bkcorwin (Mar 25, 2014)

Controller does increment when in manual mode and using handweels with my servo driven sharp knee mill.

For the pm45 why not just use MDI?


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## bloomingtonmike (Mar 25, 2014)

bkcorwin said:


> Controller does increment when in manual mode and using handweels with my servo driven sharp knee mill.
> 
> For the pm45 why not just use MDI?



Or a pendant?


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## zr8cnc (Mar 26, 2014)

bloomingtonmike said:


> Or a pendant?




thanks everyone for all the input. I just purchased a VistaCNC controller and will most likely just use the Pendant to do manual mill ops


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## Boswell (Mar 26, 2014)

zr8cnc said:


> thanks everyone for all the input. I just purchased a VistaCNC controller and will most likely just use the Pendant to do manual mill ops




They look very good. Which model did you get?  Let us know how you like it.


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## zr8cnc (Mar 26, 2014)

Boswell said:


> They look very good. Which model did you get?  Let us know how you like it.



I got the P2S. I'll keep you guys posted when I set it up


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## cjtoombs (Mar 26, 2014)

I've got a Tormach, which doesn't even bother with the handles, and I use the manual entry and the pendant for "manual" mill operation.  It works pretty well, and the wizards can speed up other simple operations.  Once you get used to it, you probably won't miss those handles much.


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## ajg308 (Mar 26, 2014)

So why send the handles, I do not get it.


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## bloomingtonmike (Mar 27, 2014)

In mach, what happens when you guys press reset? Do your steppers disable? Are you using a charge pump configuration (meaning mach must be active and configured correctly for your parallel port or controller) before it will enable the holding on teh steppers?

I don't think you will be able to use the dro at all running manual as it really is not a true measuring dro with steppers. Mach only "hopes" your steppers move the distance (pulses and direction) that was sent to the stepper motor drives and displays those regardless if anything moved or not.

(BTW - my birthday this week so I took my own advice from this thread and ordered a 100-step MPG for my mill. I never had handles on its servo setup. I do have a control pendant already but not one with a MPG, so my movement has been all push button. I retrofitted my knee mill with Centroid controls in Sept 2013. The MPG wheel will be sweet. I am also adding the drive for a 4th axis - some day I want a rotary 4 axis servo setup. Thanks for the push)


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## Boswell (Mar 27, 2014)

ajg308 said:


> So why send the handles, I do not get it.



I took mine off and put them on a shelf


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## cjtoombs (Mar 27, 2014)

ajg308 said:


> So why send the handles, I do not get it.




Marketing.


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## Ray C (Mar 27, 2014)

I took the handles off but left the disks on.  It's very handy to move the table if the power is off.  Sometimes I use the mill table and spindle to do critical measurements -no power or milling involved.  Just a place to setup measurements.


Ray


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## bloomingtonmike (Mar 29, 2014)

Forgive the thread sidetrack but I got my pendant installed tonight. You will love having one of these. ow it works great moving the table!! I nstalled its 20 pin port out of my monitor enclosure back.

Also one pic to show my solution for nmtb30 tool holding. Heavy Duty Red cart is from CraigsList and the top is holes cut in 3/4" oak plywood. Originally had only half the cart for toolholding but it was crowded so I did the second half tonight.


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## zr8cnc (Mar 31, 2014)

nice setup!


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