# Bought a burke #4



## woodtickgreg (Mar 30, 2013)

These burke mills seem to be very popular here and elsewhere. I found one in pretty good condition by accident. I went with a friend to look at a mill I found for him on craigslist, it was a rong fu with a vice, 2hp rotary phase converter, and r8 collet set for $750, he bought it and we took it apart and loaded it up. While we where there I saw this old burke #4 horizontal mill, I have been looking for a dovetail column vertical mill. The guy said he had the vertical attachment for it. So he pulls out a couple of boxes and sure enough it had the vertical attachment and a bunch of other stuff like parts for the power feed and an original owners manual. The machine is date stamped on the dovetail column 7-12-42. He asked $750 for it also and I bought it. The rong fu was a way better buy but this machine will fit in my shop better and it will be a great companion to my 49 south bend heavy ten lathe. I am pretty excited about this find, I will have to see if all the parts are there for the power table feed, most of it is there. The belt cover is missing but I think I can find or make one. I will pick this machine up next week and will post pic's when I get it. It is in very good condition, still has scrape marks on the table and ways, handles all turn smoothly and no rust at all, well oiled and cared for. And as a bonus the seller gave me a set of collets for it and a bunch of hss cutters that I can use for my lathe and a handfull of boring bars also, a turret style tool holder that may work with my lathe until I get a qc post. And a buch of other stuff in a bucket that I have not even sorted through yet. I think it was my turn for a craigslist find, LOL. Do you guys think this was a fair price for it? It doesn't really matter though as I am happy with the find, just kinda wondered what it was really worth, the paint is good and just needs some minor cleaning and tweaking, I won't have to do a full restore on it like I did on my south bend.


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## stevecmo (Mar 30, 2013)

Greg,

Man, that is really a shame.  You got taken to the cleaners my man.  That thing is at best worth a couple hundred plus maybe a hundred for the vertical head.  What a shame.

However, I am in the need of some ballast for a certain project and would be willing to offer what you paid for it just to take it off your hands.  :whistle:

Seriously, I think the price you paid was fair.  Did you get the original cast base for it?  Pic's are definitely in line here.  Nice score.  And oh, by the way, YOU SUCK!  ) 

Steve


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 30, 2013)

Yup, got the cast base too, all original paint. I suck? Oh boy I am honored that I suck! That means I did good. LOL I will definitely post pics when I pic it up.


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 31, 2013)

I found the craigslist posting for the mill, lets see if I can get the pics to post here.


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## stevecmo (Mar 31, 2013)

Oh, be still my heart!  That is a thing of beauty!!  Why can't I ever SUCK like that????!!!!!


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## Jeff in Pa (Mar 31, 2013)

That looks great :thumbsup:

 Running a horizontal mill takes a different thinking approach than a vertical but it's not a negative at all.  Does the vertical attachment have a quill? ( like a bridgeport)

 Let me see what I have in extra mill tooling around here. ( it's just "fair" not "great")

 Congrats
  Jeff


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 31, 2013)

Jeff in Pa said:


> That looks great :thumbsup:
> 
> Running a horizontal mill takes a different thinking approach than a vertical but it's not a negative at all.  Does the vertical attachment have a quill? ( like a bridgeport)
> 
> ...



I think so but I'm not really sure, it does take collets though, I think 3c ? I will have to wait till I get it home and get to play with it and check it out. It was a quick check over and then made the deal, then took apart a machine from the same seller that my friend purchased and moved it. Man those rong fu's are heavy.


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## atwatterkent (Mar 31, 2013)

I went to look at a similar machine the other day and the guy wanted $2000 with the original vise, vertical head and 80 cutters.
You did reeeeeeeeeeeealy good and yes,"YOU SUCK"
Oh, the vertical head, I believe, if an original Burke, has a fixed spindle.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 2, 2013)

I went and picked up the mill today, very easy to take apart and move, no problem for 2 guys and a dolly. I took a few pics before I took it apart, they came out better with my camera even with crappy light. What a cool machine, notice the size of the motor, it's huge for a 110v! Gotta be about a 100lbs. In the pics it's set up for horizontal milling. The p.o. had several quick change type cutter holders for it too. Also notice the motor tag says 1720 rpm but 280 shaft rpm, think it will make some torque? LOL Also a pretty cool tag that states it has Timken bearings. I looked at it a little closer today and can see that it has been painted but it's not horrible. Maybe someday I'll give it the full restore treatment. Right now I just want to get it set up in my basement and use it.
Here's a few pics, I'll get some more when I get her set up with the vertical head. gotta get a vise too, I'm thinking 4" swivel vise would be nice size for this mill. And I need to see if all the parts are there for the table feed.


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## Jeff in Pa (Apr 2, 2013)

OK Greg, YOU SUCK :lmao:

 That's freaking nice.    Let me know what size arbor(s) it has and I'll look thru my tooling.

 Vise, if you can find a used KURT vise, grab it.  A good vise makes a big difference.  You mentioned a swivel base, nice to have but if it were mine, I'd only use the swivel base when actually needed.  It will be more rigid mounted directly to the table.  What ever flavor vise you get, make sure it has removable jaws.  Soft jaws make it easy to hold irregular pieces securely.


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## Charley Davidson (Apr 2, 2013)

stevecmo said:


> Oh, be still my heart!  That is a thing of beauty!!  Why can't I ever SUCK like that????!!!!!



You could have, I just sold one with a virt. head, original indexer and a few other accessories for the same money.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 4, 2013)

Thought I'd show The vert attachment for the mill and the 3C collets. The vert head is in great shape, no rust, just a little dirty and greasy.



The shop made spanner for adjusting the eccentric.


The collets and some clamp blocks for the table.


One of these holders is currently Mounted on the mill, here are a couple more sizes, these are for horizontal milling cutters and saws.


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## ScubaSteve (Apr 5, 2013)

Nice haul! Looks to be in really good condition....you won't need to do much to it, that's for sure. Maybe just a bit of polishing, etc. Keep us posted...I for one have always wanted to see one of these in action. I was very close to getting one myself, but opted to keep my current mill.


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## Splat (Apr 6, 2013)

I think you did damn well, Greg! She's a real beauty too! I love the old machines. They have class and a style all their own. Good luck with her brother!


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 6, 2013)

Splat said:


> I think you did damn well, Greg! She's a real beauty too! I love the old machines. They have class and a style all their own. Good luck with her brother!


Thanks my friend, I got her in the basement today after work, all assembled and I oiled everything very well, wired up the motor and threw the switch. It's amazing how smooth the old machines are, remember the old lionell trains and how they had that electrical with oil smell? That's how this mill smells when she's running, kinda cool. This mill looks great sitting beside the south bend, a perfect compliment. For what machining I do making tools for wood workers this mill will be great. And I just dig it because it is old American iron.


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## Jeff in Pa (Apr 6, 2013)

woodtickgreg said:


> ........ This mill looks great sitting beside the south bend, a perfect compliment..........



 That statement requires some pictures.

  The Lionel electrical smell brings back memories


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## atwatterkent (Apr 6, 2013)

Woodtickgreg,    Are you planning to spend some time at the NAMES convention? I'll be there all day Sat. I'd like to talk to you about your Burke #4 arbor and drawbar.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 6, 2013)

Jeff in Pa said:


> That statement requires some pictures.
> 
> The Lionel electrical smell brings back memories



Pics to come soon.
Had to take the wife out for a birthday dinner.


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## mtnlvr (Apr 6, 2013)

woodtickgreg said:


> Thanks my friend, I got her in the basement today after work, all assembled and I oiled everything very well, wired up the motor and threw the switch. It's amazing how smooth the old machines are, remember the old lionell trains and how they had that electrical with oil smell? That's how this mill smells when she's running, kinda cool. This mill looks great sitting beside the south bend, a perfect compliment. For what machining I do making tools for wood workers this mill will be great. And I just dig it because it is old American iron.



Those old trains did have a cool smell.  Too bad kids today don't have a clue about stuff like that.  The mill looks great, you're going to have a lot of fun with it.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 6, 2013)

atwatterkent said:


> Woodtickgreg,    Are you planning to spend some time at the NAMES convention? I'll be there all day Sat. I'd like to talk to you about your Burke #4 arbor and drawbar.



Uhm.....I don't know what a NAMES convention is.

I am curious as to what you want to talk about as far as the arbor and draw bar, ask away.


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## Jeff in Pa (Apr 7, 2013)

woodtickgreg said:


> Pics to come soon.
> Had to take the wife out for a birthday dinner.



 Got to keep momma happy :thumbsup:

*If Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy
If Poppa ain't happy, nobody cares

*:roflmao:


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 7, 2013)

The parents (in laws) are taking us out for the wifes birthday dinner today. I'll try and get these pics up before I have to get ready to go.
Splat, just so you get the right impression, my shop is trashed and well used. Too many projects going on all at once.


The cleanest part of the shop, where the new machines have been placed. The 2 machines look good together, same vintage.


I spent some time oiling everything up. A better pic of the table.



- - - Updated - - -

I have determined that at on time or another this mill has been re-scraped as the scrape patterns are different. But in is still in really good shape and well cared for, everything operates very smoothly.
The first 2 pics are the table.





This last pic is the saddle, see the difference in the scrape pattern.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 7, 2013)

Here's the model number, at first I thought this was a date stamp, it is stamped on the column. Like my south bend lathe, I am learning as I go along. I wonder if there is a way to find the year it was made, I'm still guessing 40's.





This is the quick change horizontal arbor shaft set up, it's pretty cool and seems to be well made. I have never seen one of these but I don't know a lot about horizontal milling either, but I'm gonna learn.



This is the brand name of the quick change adapter.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 7, 2013)

And I couldn't stop playing with the mill so I had to give the change over to the vertical attachment a try. It was really quite easy, I cave it a wirl under power and she is very smooth and quiet even at the highest speed.

What she looks like with the vert attachment installed.



You can also see the collet arbor laying on the table.


The vert assembly can be mounted on either side of the bracket that the top column goes through, that would give a larger range than I thought it would have,



Here you can see the number graduations are quite clear and the head is in great shape.



I wonder if I can mount an electric power feed to this table instead of the original pto drive unit? I think the p.o. did this at one time, I can't figure out any other reason why he would have removed it. I think he then transfered it to the rong fu mill my friend purchased. My thinking of doing this is all the motor power would go to the cutter shaft and not the table feed.


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## atwatterkent (Apr 7, 2013)

The North American Model Engineering Society, NAMES convention in Wyandotte Mi is in two weeks. It is well worth the days excursion, especially if you're in the area. I plan on attending Sat Apr 20 and visiting the Ford Museum on Sunday Apr 21.

An acquaintance of mine is planning to buy a Burke #4 but it has no arbor or drawbar. I was hoping to photo and take measurements of original pieces. I didn't realize until now that you had a QC arbor set up. Not sure but the drawbar may be the same.


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## ScubaSteve (Apr 8, 2013)

Very, very nice condition. Scraped tables are a rarity.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 9, 2013)

atwatterkent said:


> The North American Model Engineering Society, NAMES convention in Wyandotte Mi is in two weeks. It is well worth the days excursion, especially if you're in the area. I plan on attending Sat Apr 20 and visiting the Ford Museum on Sunday Apr 21.
> 
> An acquaintance of mine is planning to buy a Burke #4 but it has no arbor or drawbar. I was hoping to photo and take measurements of original pieces. I didn't realize until now that you had a QC arbor set up. Not sure but the drawbar may be the same.


Here we go again....not getting notifications of replys to threads. I had not planned to attend and do not think I could spare the time right now. Are you going to greenfield village to the henry ford museum in dearborn. I spend all day in that museum, it's just awesome!
The quick change arbor uses the same draw bolt for the arbor. If you need more info on stuff just ask, I'll do what I can to help.
I think I fixed the notification thing.
Greg


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## atwatterkent (Apr 9, 2013)

We spent the weekend at Greenfield Village and the Museum two years ago. About 1/3 of the museum was closed off for a remodeling job. We wanted to go back to see the changes. While there, last time, I took a couple of photos of the crown molding in one of the homes in the village to use in a remodel of our dining room. I am now working on that room and need better pics and hope to take a couple of measurements. I wrote a letter to the Research Center with the two photos and they couldn't even tell me what building I was referring to.
I've tried to find a local Detroit historical group to help me without success. I'm hoping to get in and find the right home, take measurements and pics before they close Sunday afternoon.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 10, 2013)

atwatterkent said:


> We spent the weekend at Greenfield Village and the Museum two years ago. About 1/3 of the museum was closed off for a remodeling job. We wanted to go back to see the changes. While there, last time, I took a couple of photos of the crown molding in one of the homes in the village to use in a remodel of our dining room. I am now working on that room and need better pics and hope to take a couple of measurements. I wrote a letter to the Research Center with the two photos and they couldn't even tell me what building I was referring to.
> I've tried to find a local Detroit historical group to help me without success. I'm hoping to get in and find the right home, take measurements and pics before they close Sunday afternoon.


I've never been to the villiage, I can't seem to get out of the museum, it just fascinates me.


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## ChuckB (Apr 13, 2013)

What a great find and a fine American machine! I hate you!! (to be taken in the same light as "you suck!") :biggrin: 

Just the right size and from the looks of things, no painting needed. I dream of finding machinery like this!





You're right.. looks great sitting by the South Bend!


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 13, 2013)

ChuckB said:


> What a great find and a fine American machine! I hate you!! (to be taken in the same light as "you suck!") :biggrin:
> 
> Just the right size and from the looks of things, no painting needed. I dream of finding machinery like this!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the compliments! Yup the paint is pretty good, maybe one day I'll go through it and paint it. Right now I'm just gonna get a vice and use her, she's so smooth and quiet, no bearing noise at all. I did find one minor problem that I will need to address, the f-o-r does not function with the switch. It functions f-o-f no reverse. I think the switch is wired wrong or it is wired wrong at the motor. I do have the original owners manual and it has a wiring diagram so I can get this minor detail sorted out. Every now and then I just have to turn it on and admire it........then stand back and go yup, I do suck. LOL


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## ChuckB (Apr 13, 2013)

woodtickgreg said:


> . Every now and then I just have to turn it on and admire it........then stand back and go yup, I do suck. LOL



Ha Ha ! I thought I was the only one that did that! )

EDIT: Admiring it and standing there with a cold beer in your hand really enhances the feeling. )


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## atwatterkent (Apr 13, 2013)

I have another couple of questions about your mill if you don't mind. Exactly how long is the drawbar minus the nut end? How does the drawbar mate to the pulley face? Does it have a thrust washer? As to the arbor, at what angle is the point, or dead center machined to, that supports the arbor? How long is the arbor assembly from the spindle nose to the arbor end? And lastly, what is the thread dia and tpi that tightens the cutter and spacers on the arbor?
Thank you for your help, Bob

By the way, that is a nice looking SB too.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 14, 2013)

atwatterkent said:


> I have another couple of questions about your mill if you don't mind. Exactly how long is the drawbar minus the nut end? How does the drawbar mate to the pulley face? Does it have a thrust washer? As to the arbor, at what angle is the point, or dead center machined to, that supports the arbor? How long is the arbor assembly from the spindle nose to the arbor end? And lastly, what is the thread dia and tpi that tightens the cutter and spacers on the arbor?
> Thank you for your help, Bob
> 
> By the way, that is a nice looking SB too.


Woah! You don't ask for much do ya. LOL I'll have to get back to you on this one, after I make a list of the questions to take to my shop.


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## ChuckB (Apr 14, 2013)

^^^^^^^^

Yes, that's what I was thinking..


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## woodtickgreg (Dec 30, 2013)

Here's a short video of the Burke running with the vertical attachment. The mill is covered with chips and being used as she should be!
http://youtu.be/tsgdMxg6XIE


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## george wilson (Dec 30, 2013)

I watched the video. Do NOT let the cutter dwell in 1 spot. It will dull it.

I had a #4 as my first REAL mill. It was a real machine alright,and would take good cuts in steel. I had to have the table re cut top and dovetails too. It had gotten a convex curve to it over the years,from having the T slot squeezed from tightening down the vise.

I would have LOVED to have found a vertical attachment back then,but never did. I made a simple power feed as mine was missing everything. I had to make up a jackshaft outfit to get different speeds. It did have a Master gear head motor(unless I added that too). Eventually I bought a large mill drill,then my Bridgeport type,which I've been very happy with. I also acquired a very nice Harrison universal horizontal mill and a Deckel fp1. But,I'm so used to the Bridgey type,I seldom use the others. That Harrison WILL eliminate metal,though!! Gear head. very powerful and smooth. They finished everything in turquoise which I COULD do without!!!


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## woodtickgreg (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks for the advise George. I would like a bridgy type mill but I just do not have the room for one. The little Burke works well for my hobbies and what I do with it. It was easy to take apart and a couple guys could take it down to my basement. I think I have all the stuff for the original power feed for the table, it's in a box. I might some day try to adapt a electric power feed to it so as not to rob any power from the cutter. But for now it works fine for me, besides the best way to keep the handles shiny is to use them, LOL.


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## ksierens (Jul 23, 2014)

Wow, what a great find, how did I miss that one? 

I would love to see pictures of the power feed parts sometime.


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## woodtickgreg (Jul 23, 2014)

ksierens said:


> Wow, what a great find, how did I miss that one?
> 
> I would love to see pictures of the power feed parts sometime.


That would be easy, they are all in a box as I don't use it. I just took apart this mill and moved it again as I am moving, heavy little sucker.


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## Al 1 (Jul 23, 2014)

Greg,
             Nice find.   I was wondering if the motor on your unit has a oil type tag still intact.   I have the same mill and the letters on my oil ID tag got washed out when I cleaned up the machine.

Thanks,   Al.


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## woodtickgreg (Jul 23, 2014)

Al 1 said:


> Greg,
> Nice find.   I was wondering if the motor on your unit has a oil type tag still intact.   I have the same mill and the letters on my oil ID tag got washed out when I cleaned up the machine.
> 
> Thanks,   Al.


I don't think so but I will look, this topic has come up before, I have the original owners manual and it doesn't say in there either. I know mine has oil as I have checked it, and it weeps when I run it, but I too would like to know so I can change it. My Little burke works well for what I use it for, I still have not used it in horizontal, I usually just use the vertical attachment and the 3c collets with end mills. I like the little burke though, it is solid.


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## Gary Ayres (Sep 2, 2014)

A very handsome machine, and in great condition.

Sadly, they are rare on my side of the Atlantic.


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## Ulma Doctor (Sep 8, 2014)

woodtickgreg said:


> And I couldn't stop playing with the mill so I had to give the change over to the vertical attachment a try. It was really quite easy, I cave it a wirl under power and she is very smooth and quiet even at the highest speed.
> 
> What she looks like with the vert attachment installed.
> View attachment 51565
> ...






beautiful machine Greg!!!!
:yousuck3:


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## ksierens (Sep 9, 2014)

woodtickgreg said:


> I've never been to the villiage, I can't seem to get out of the museum, it just fascinates me.



I love the machine shops in the village.  I could stay there for hours.


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## george wilson (Sep 9, 2014)

My first DECENT mill was a Burke#4. It was a real machine,capable of taking decent cuts out of steel. My table was a bit convex,which comes from years of tightening down stuff in the T slot. I had to have it re cut on the top,AND bottom,and the dovetail also. They did some more or less decorative scraping on the table,which was nice.

I can't tell if yours was re cut,since the rest of the machine looks so nice. I WISHED forever that I could have found a vertical head for mine,but never did. Did you see the slotting attachment another guy found?


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 9, 2014)

george wilson said:


> My first DECENT mill was a Burke#4. It was a real machine,capable of taking decent cuts out of steel. My table was a bit convex,which comes from years of tightening down stuff in the T slot. I had to have it re cut on the top,AND bottom,and the dovetail also. They did some more or less decorative scraping on the table,which was nice.
> 
> I can't tell if yours was re cut,since the rest of the machine looks so nice. I WISHED forever that I could have found a vertical head for mine,but never did. Did you see the slotting attachment another guy found?



Yes I saw the attachment, pretty cool indeed. Thanks for pointing it out though. I still have not got the burke back together completely after the move, still working on other things in the house. I have to upgrade the fuse panel and get some real power into the garage, then I can start working on getting the shop set up again. Guy's, take a look at your shop and then think about moving it to a place that is not set up and has now power...........kinda sucks but it will be ok in the end.


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 8, 2017)

So here's where the mill and my shop stands now. Wood shop is nearly done finally! Working on the metal shop side now. The switch on the Burke no.4 got smashed in the move. It was a forward- off- reverse switch, but it was only wired for forward. I have never needed reverse on the mill because I do not have the power feed hooked up. I have all the parts to do so I think, I just don't need it. Plus I have also acquired a bigger Powermatic/Burke mvn knee mill that will get a power feed. So rather than replacing the switch with an expensive rotary switch I went with a push button on off with a large panic off paddle. While I was at it I replaced the cord and wiring with a heavier 12 gage stranded flexible wire. Here's a few pics.
The original switch, that doesn't work.


I'm going to reuse the mounting holes since they are nice and high and drilled and tapped.


The p.o. did make a nice stainless steel junction box, but it wasn't grounded, now it is. That's the new wire installed.


I am going to reuse this box and outlet, nice to have power for a light.


The new switch box.


This is an extra deep box because the switch is quite deep.


I had to clearance a tab on the box for the switch about a 16th to 1/8th. Dremmel to the rescue!


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 8, 2017)

Drilled a couple holes in the box and bolted it on.


Since this is stranded 12 gage wire I tinned all the ends for the connections.


I like the big paddle switch.


All wired up and tested, she is alive again!
Now I just need to run a couple of power circuits to the metal shop. This is about where it will go. New mill will go to the left of it.


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