# 1929 ? South Bend 9"  x 4' (Catalog: 82AP)



## jnicita (Aug 6, 2012)

Hello all, although I have some experience with a wood lathe, never used a metal working version. I was told by my grandfather before he died earlier last year to look for a South Bend 9", unfortunately after he died, I found this lathe on Craigslist. I was told it was rebuild, it was obvious that it was taken apart and re-painted, area's that couldn't be painted without taking it apart have fresh paint on it. Although they didn't paint the cranks and all that stuff. One would asume that meant that bearings, half nuts and those type parts were replaced if needed, if you knew how to take one of these apart and put it back together with bad parts, seems like for anyone who knows these things, that would be sacrilegious. The guy also had about 4 other 9" and heavy 10's he had all apart along with some craftsman/atlas lathes as well, so I think it was his hobby restoring them?

Anyways, after a quick run through, showing it powered on, fwd/neutral/reverse on the drive screw, a quick show of the lever that changes the drive screw speed and going through the 5 quick change position in low and high. Engaging the backgear, engaging the power feed and horizontal (longitudinal) travel, and he also engaged the cross feed and it all seemed to work fine. He never messed with the clutch star knob but since it left/right in/out on the power feeds I was pretty happy with it.

Fast forward 6 months or so, I really havent attempted much, 99% of the immediate use was to resize the journals of some barrels. But with some stock, Ive taken the time to learn how to grind hss bits for LH, RH, Threading, Boring, Cut off, and played a little.

I do have a question. My apron doesn't have a nice three position lever to change between Longitudinal travel / cross feed travel / neutral. it has more of a round knob that seems to have two positions, I remember being able to unscrew the knob and smoothly move it out of bottom and top settings. However, this has stopped now, its really hard to move, and it seems even harder to get it out of position to longitudinal feed, I have been able to move it down and feel that the cross feed is trying to engage, but the longitudinal stays engage somewhat, clutch knob moves a little as its moved as well. And the clutch, it seems that the clutch screws in and tightens the appron, I have to unscrew it 90-95% the way out to get the apron to move left/right smoothly, as I tighten it down, it seems to want to bind up and stop the apron from moving, from reading what I can, I am assuming that the clutch needs rebuilding. 

Also, the half-nut lever has seem to gotten loose, if I tighten the nut it makes it hard to engage, but if I leave it loose, pushing up to engage, it actually can fall down and disengage. I have found a happy medium, but dont think its correct. 
Is it correct that the only way to get the longitudinal power feed to work is with the half-nut lever up? I've tried to read, but it sounds like some people say only for threading, which leads on to assume it should be going left/right some other way. Again, it also makes sense since pushing the lever down stops the power feed from engaging that is what its used for. I have been playing on the lathe, and able to us it as a engage / disengage feature, but not sure.

After some massive jiggling I was able to get the cross feed / longitudinal feed knob up into the top position where the longitudinal feed is engaged. 

Kinda sucks that my grandfather died before I was able to learn from him, that was the plan, but life goes on. My dad never picked up a tool and took the civil engineering route, so cant pick his brain.

Anyways, I also think one other question, the carriage lock screw (which I assume is to lock the carriage for power cross feed only). it should be left loose at all time? (I ask, because one can loosen it where you can feel it wobbling 1/2" up and down and tighten it down to where it just gets some resistance, and obviously, really tighten it down so it locks the carriage.

Im including a picture (sorry for the mess, I at least have been able to make some chips) of the apron so you can see the round cross-feed / longitudinal feed knob (has the star embossed on it in picture), it has a up and a down (and it doesn't like going down for sure). Its not the star knob, thats the clutch. Im sure you all know it, and can offer some suggestions.

I know a class at some Community college will help, but learning on the equipment I have also make sense, although I assume once you know how it "should" feel while engaging the quick change gears, the cross feed, the half nuts can translate, I have nothing to go by except function and noise. I shoot for no noise and it to work like I think it should.. 

Thanks in advance, I know learning and having this South Bend will be much better than the grizzly 11x26 gearbox that I was going to buy, but thats after I know it all works like it should. Only advantage to the chi-com is someone like me knows that its tight (for the first 5 years at least, right?) ha ha (and I only paid 750 for the SB 9")

-john


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## ScrapMetal (Aug 6, 2012)

I'm not one of the "experts" on SBs but I do have, and use, a '39 11" model so I can give you some reading to help you learn more about your lathe and how to work it.  Here is a .pdf of South Bend's "How to Run a Lathe" for download. Be forewarned, it's roughly 148M but it's on my personal server so I can guarantee that it's "clean".

Hope that helps some,

-Ron


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## HMF (Aug 6, 2012)

You have an early SB 9" wide bed lathe. This lathe bares no relationship to the later and much more prevelant 9" SB Workshop series lathes and The parts for the Workshop lathes will not fit on yours. 

There was a third SB 9" lathe, made only for one year around 1938. That one was the bases for the Heavy 10 series of lates.

I am not much of a source of informationon these earlier wide bed lathes. Documentation is poor, the only good source of writen information is the HTRAL (How To Run A Lathe) Try for the 3 rd edition which shows the back of an early apron as previously mentioned. I do not know there is a lockout between the Half Nuts and the power feed on your lathe. There was on the later ones, there may not be one on yours. 
It appears that if you loosen the "Auto Apron Cross Feed lever Knob" and lower it, then locking it in place after insuring it engagtes the spline on the cross feed screw, you will put the lathe into power cross feed. You need to turn the star wheel to engage the feed. The half nuts should be open. If you disengage the star wheel, loosen CF knob and raise it, rocking the feed handwheel to insure it engages, and then lock it you will be in power longitudinal feed. Somewhere in the middle you should not be feeding and its safe to use the half nuts. Again later versions had a lockout so you could not engage both. You should check to see if your has that lockout. 

Is you apron single or doubled wall? (Is it oil filled?)

You should only use the half nuts only for threading. You use the Star wheel, which is actually a clutch and the round knob for power feeding. 
This lathe should have power feed, lengthwise and crosswise independent of the half nuts, which again are for threading only. 


The carrage lock scres is for locking the carrage when cross feeding, not only under power but also by hand. Nothing wrong with keeping it just barely snugged, as long as your ways are in good condition and the saddle does not bind.

There are fine people here including other 9" wide bed owners there who can assist.


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## jnicita (Aug 6, 2012)

100% positive of the 82-AP, its on the gear cover on the outside of the headstock, where the swing and length are mentioned as well. Will check the site out ASAP.
Thanks





Benji said:


> Here is a link to a 1930 catalog that should describe your lathe, although I only see Model 80's, not 82' how sure are you of the 82 designation?
> However on page 14 there is a description of the safety interlock which you should have.
> I am wondering from your description of the issues you are having if this has been gummed up?
> 
> ...


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## jnicita (Aug 7, 2012)

jnicita said:


> 100% positive of the 82-AP, its on the gear cover on the outside of the headstock, where the swing and length are mentioned as well. Will check the site out ASAP.
> Thanks




Pictures added....Click to size up.

-John


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## jnicita (Aug 7, 2012)

*Re: 19XX ? South Bend 9"  x 4' (Catalog: 82AP)*

Finding out that the date is probably wrong, and that is actually called a 9" series O, I believe which evolved into the 10 series, but lots of history and reading.  But I have to be honest, I would say I prefer a true forum layout 50 : 1 over the post via  reply to email and the layout of the yahoo groups, however, Im off to try to learn how to use the posts as I would this type forum, you know, searching and all that. 

Thanks again...

p.s.  RE: (the bed not looking 4') It's the picture that makes it look like that. One of the last things I remember my grandfather telling me about the south bend lathes (could be all, he only mentioned SB) was the weird tiger like marks on the scrapings, said thats how they looked from the factory, this bend happens to have them all the way from the headstock to the tail end, there is like a 12" section that they are barely visible at, but the majority of the ways have the hand scraping marks still (I assume this is "good").  I digress, the bed is indeed 4', but between centers is almost 28", which I believe is what the 4' bed is published at. 

-John

I posted in the yahoo groups about suggestions for a steady rest for it, I remember reading about a import that come with a clamping plate that needs to be cut for what you use, but to make sure it fits the ways correctly, I believe I was told to look for a 9" jr or heavy 9", any suggestions?

Thanks


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## ScrapMetal (Aug 7, 2012)

If you are interested in finding exactly what you have you can order a copy of the original serial number card on file from Grizzly (who now owns the South Bend name) - http://www.southbendlathe.com/products/serial_numbers

Last time I looked it was about $25.  The amount of information you get is dependent on what the factory kept in those particular years.  This is what I got for my '39 11":




-Ron


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## jnicita (Aug 10, 2012)

Thanks guys, we were able to determine that it was a Feb 1928 South Bend 9" series O lathe, or what some call the heavy 9. I guess the 10" light and heavy 10 use the bed that came from this series O, or this was designed and then turned in the light 10 / heavy 10. Its in good shape, but now I have even more of a issue finding parts. Im looking for a steady rest, but I need one from the heavy 9 or a 9" jr. I could buy a 10l one, but its for a 10" and the center is in the wrong spot. 

Does anyone know where to find a steady rest for my lathe? THe first project I am working on is a 16" gun barrel in its flexing between centers. If I KNEW the barrel was perfectly concentric I would reverse it in the chuck and feed some of it through the headstock spindle (not sure if this is a good idea, just trying to learn). 

I guess maybe I could pay someone to modify a light 10 rest for my machine? If you have any suggestions or links or anything, I would be appreciative.

Thanks in advance.


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## Splat (Aug 10, 2012)

At least you now know what you have. I would contact Joe @ www.plazamachinery.com He's a good guy and may be able to help you out. Another is Jeff @ www.tools4cheap.net
  Good luck.


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## woodtickgreg (Aug 11, 2012)

I posted a couple of pics of what the serial no. build card looks like in my heavy ten thread, They do have a lot of good info on them. I think the cost was like $25 but worth it imo, they send you a pdf file that you can then print out.


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## Hawkeye (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm not a gunsmith, but my first concern with using a steady on a barrel would be the marks that even ball bearings would leave in the finish. Why not make a cat-head steady to fit your lathe. It isn't too involved and would end up a perfect fit.

Check out http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/3060-Cat-head-Steady-Rest


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## jnicita (Aug 11, 2012)

Thanks, I'll take a look at it. talking with a few others, a follower is what I really think would fit h bill. My saddle has the two screws to mount the follower to the saddle, now to find a heavy 9/jr 9 follow through..  





Hawkeye said:


> I'm not a gunsmith, but my first concern with using a steady on a barrel would be the marks that even ball bearings would leave in the finish. Why not make a cat-head steady to fit your lathe. It isn't too involved and would end up a perfect fit.
> 
> Check out http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/3060-Cat-head-Steady-Rest


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## jnicita (Aug 17, 2012)

Splat said:


> At least you now know what you have. I would contact Joe @ www.plazamachinery.com He's a good guy and may be able to help you out. Another is Jeff @ www.tools4cheap.net
> Good luck.




Thanks for the pointers man, I downloaded his pdf sheet on what he had, then on page 32 or something like that, under steady's was a freakin heavy 9 steady rest. I've already paid for it, Thanks for the pointers, as I've searched all the archived ebay listings for heavy 9 / 9 JR stuff, and over the last couple of years stuff does show up, but its not that frequent, and its not cheap...

-John


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