# My first lathe!! Old South Bend.



## ADM (Apr 13, 2021)

Hi all! New here. Interested in all things gearhead and garage related.

I am mainly a motorcycle guy and occasionally fabricate small, simple parts. I have only a TIG welder, band saw, angle grinder and small drill press. Space and funds are limited but I came across this older South Bend 9" and grabbed it. Serial number 74038. It appears to be a pretty simple unit- no gear box and no, I did not get any gears with it.

I've started taking it apart and cleaning it. Seems to be in decent shape though as newbie, I don't know exactly what to look for. No excessive, corrosion, though. It is missing the clamping plate and bolt for the tail stock and any centers for the tailstock but I have already ordered those parts off of an eBay seller. I love the way these things are built- so matter-of-fact and simple.

I was advised to get a kit like this with the oils and felts and such. Would you agree? https://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend...ackage-Manual-Felts-Oil-Grease-/152525013342?

_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&fbclid=IwAR2KFVnKk4GD1wHGaOT8usdiIgQ0VWtdo1i--YKNjIW-sWoaW8VW4fLIeng

I probably won't worry about a quick change tool post for a while. Still have plenty to learn. I have not used a lathe since high school and that was DECADES ago!

There appears to be a couple heavy layers of paint brushed on, at least.

That plaque that is pinned to the bed up by the tail stock- mine is covered with thick paint. Is there generally a model number or other information on the plaque? Is it engraved and should I use a paint stripper to clean the plaque up? Or some other method?

Thoughts and insights appreciated! Can't wait to start tinkering with it!


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## ADM (Apr 13, 2021)

Started taking it apart and though a little grimy, it seems pretty clean, actually. All moving parts appear to be well lubed and everything moves smoothly and easily.


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## lordbeezer (Apr 13, 2021)

Yes on kit. The instructions will show you where the felts are located .there are a few..looks like a nice lathe


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## lordbeezer (Apr 13, 2021)

Welcome to hobby machinist. Lots of smart nice people on here that can answer any questions you have


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## mikey (Apr 13, 2021)

The ways look good from here so that's good. Should be a fun lathe to learn on. Welcome to HM!


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## SLK001 (Apr 13, 2021)

Your lathe looks like an old Workshop 9" model C lathe.  I'm not sure that this model lathe is covered in the Illion book on ebay (too early).  Also, these early lathes only used one type of oil (Type "C").  This one also didn't use the grease.  I'm also not sure about the wicking system in this one.  I believe that this lathe used  a flow-thru lubrication system entirely (no sumps).  This one used felts to retain the oil and slowly dribble it out where needed, but had to be loaded from the top.

Type C oil is a light hydraulic oil, modern ISO 32.


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## 7milesup (Apr 13, 2021)

Welcome to the obsession forum ADM!


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## Manual Mac (Apr 13, 2021)

Be careful with the paint removal from the pinned badge under the tailstock. When U get the grey off it will be beautiful. No information there other than South Bend Twins etc.
Do you have bottom of tailstock, maybe I missed it.
You have much desired micrometer way stop & thread dial.
It may have been red from the factory, SB did that for couple years in that time period.
My SB9C is identical to yours. New April 8 1938.
Enjoy this fine machine.


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## Janderso (Apr 13, 2021)

ADM said:


> Started taking it apart and though a little grimy, it seems pretty clean, actually. All moving parts appear to be well lubed and everything moves smoothly and easily.


Looks like a gently used old SB.
You should have a good time with that one.
Here's a bit of help if you haven't sourced it yet.









						South Bend Lathe 9" Model B - Rebuild Parts Kit  | eBay
					

If you are contemplating doing a "Spring Cleaning" on that old South Bend sitting in your garage, this kit is what you will need to get the job done. They should be replaced at regular intervals as opposed to trying to clean and reuse the old ones.



					www.ebay.com
				






			South Bend 9-inch Lathe
		


Cheers,


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## ADM (Apr 13, 2021)

Manual Mac said:


> Be careful with the paint removal from the pinned badge under the tailstock. When U get the grey off it will be beautiful. No information there other than South Bend Twins etc.
> Do you have bottom of tailstock, maybe I missed it.
> You have much desired micrometer way stop & thread dial.
> It may have been red from the factory, SB did that for couple years in that time period.
> ...


Hi Mac,
It didn't come with that plate for the bottom of the tailstock but I already sourced on on eBay.

Yeah, appears that the first coat of paint was red, judging by the inside of the bed casting.
Any tips on getting just the gray paint off that plaque?

And thank you! Looking forward to playing with this machine.


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## Janderso (Apr 13, 2021)

You might try acetone or lacquer thinner


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## Manual Mac (Apr 13, 2021)

Not sure what to remove the grey paint with & not take the paint off the badge, maybe somebody will have an idea.
Looking @ your pics it appears your half nuts (from what i can see) are in good shape.
You can find change gears as you need them.
I think motorcycles, gunsmithing, welding & all things mechanical are interests we all share.
Be advised you will now be wanting a mill to add to your tools, and the Rabbit Hole can be deep, ask how I know.
Cheers & have fun.


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## martik777 (Apr 13, 2021)

Don't waste $100+ on that kit. The oils you need are readily available, any 0 to 10 will work for the spindle and moving parts, something heavier like chain saw oil for the ways.  You can buy felts from mcmaster and cut your own or just clean and reuse what you have.  That lathe is so simple, there is no need for a "rebuild" instruction guide, everything you need to know is available on these forums, youtube and the web. The only part you may want to buy are the spring loaded felt oilers in the spindle - I was able to clean and reuse mine in several South Bends over 70 years old. 
Without change gears you won't be able to single point different threads but that may not be an issue for your type of work, more important will be the lack of ability to change feed rates.  You can attach a handle wheel to the leadscrew on the tailstock end or attach a variable speed motor to accomplish this without gears.  You could also 3D print your change gears - there are some available on thingaverse.


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## ADM (Apr 24, 2021)

Been taking things apart and cleaning it up. Came across a broken tooth on the cone pulley. I'll look into a local machine shop to fix it but obviously picking one up on ebay would be easier and probably cheaper. I do see several listings for cone pulleys for the Heavy 10; will those fit my 9?


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## SLK001 (Apr 24, 2021)

ADM said:


> I do see several listings for cone pulleys for the Heavy 10; will those fit my 9?



No.

Your lathe is older than most 9",  so you might have to look real hard for a replacement.  And that is your BACK GEARING, not a cone pulley.


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## Manual Mac (Apr 24, 2021)

Look for the topic South Bend 9a Back gear, this thread may answer some of your questions.
EDIT;  It is under Machine Parts Wanted


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## ShagDog (Apr 24, 2021)

I actually think it is the cone pulley gear that shows the broken tooth in the photo. If you can't find one, it might or might not (???) be repairable with another gear. My 9a has the backgear small gear missing a tooth, and the plan is to machine the small gear to allow fitting of a 24 tooth 16 pitch spur gear (bored out) on my backgear.


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## ADM (Apr 24, 2021)

Thank you!


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## mattthemuppet2 (Apr 24, 2021)

I'd try and fix that one first. You may need to take the cone pulley off the spindle first, but you may be able to do it on the spindle if you can find out how thick it is AND you are _very _careful. All you need to do is drill and tap where the tooth should be for maybe 2-3 8-32 screws, then carefully grind them into the same profile as the other teeth. If you want to get fancy you can build up around the screws with JBweld first. It'll look a little prettier but won't be functionally that different. If you're worried about that tooth affecting your back gear, use brass or alu (if you can find them) screws.

Perfectly valid repair and no real harm in trying as long as you don't drill through into your spindle (hence, be _very_ careful). It's not like you can screw that missing tooth up any more than it is already is it?


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## ADM (Apr 24, 2021)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> I'd try and fix that one first. You may need to take the cone pulley off the spindle first, but you may be able to do it on the spindle if you can find out how thick it is AND you are _very _careful. All you need to do is drill and tap where the tooth should be for maybe 2-3 8-32 screws, then carefully grind them into the same profile as the other teeth. If you want to get fancy you can build up around the screws with JBweld first. It'll look a little prettier but won't be functionally that different. If you're worried about that tooth affecting your back gear, use brass or alu (if you can find them) screws.
> 
> Perfectly valid repair and no real harm in trying as long as you don't drill through into your spindle (hence, be _very_ careful). It's not like you can screw that missing tooth up any more than it is already is it?


That's a good idea. I have the cone pulley off the spindle; I just might try that myself. Maybe TIG in some silicone bronze around the screws before grinding to shape?


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## Manual Mac (Apr 24, 2021)

this repair was done on my SB9 probably 60-80 yrs ago.
Done with the method matthewmuppet2 explained, although it may have been done with 6-32 screws.
This repair is still working fine, I cut threads often using the back gears.
Cheers


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## Janderso (Apr 24, 2021)

SLK001 said:


> Your lathe looks like an old Workshop 9" model C lathe.  I'm not sure that this model lathe is covered in the Illion book on ebay (too early).  Also, these early lathes only used one type of oil (Type "C").  This one also didn't use the grease.  I'm also not sure about the wicking system in this one.  I believe that this lathe used  a flow-thru lubrication system entirely (no sumps).  This one used felts to retain the oil and slowly dribble it out where needed, but had to be loaded from the top.
> 
> Type C oil is a light hydraulic oil, modern ISO 32.


SLK001,
I just noticed your post as a model C. I bow to your expertise.
I assumed it was the B as in the attachment.


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## SLK001 (Apr 24, 2021)

Janderso said:


> SLK001,
> I just noticed your post as a model C. I bow to your expertise.
> I assumed it was the B as in the attachment.


These lathes were only made for a couple of years.  They were replaced by the later 9" series that is so common now.  I used to own an old Model C Workshop.  My grandfather was the original owner.  I sold it after I picked up a Heavy 10.  Nostalgia can only go so far!


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## Manual Mac (Apr 24, 2021)

Nostalgia can only go so far??


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## mattthemuppet2 (Apr 24, 2021)

well the world's your lobster if you have the ability to do MIG or TIG brazing. That's pretty far out of my wheel house so I'll defer to others, but the screws will certainly serve as a good anchor if there are any worries about how well the braze can be built up on its own.


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## martik777 (Apr 25, 2021)

https://imgur.com/prnt9K6




https://imgur.com/iYT1f2e




https://imgur.com/zRqlVIp




https://imgur.com/uwD1py2




https://imgur.com/d8KSS7n










						imgur.com
					

Imgur: The magic of the Internet




					imgur.com


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## ShagDog (Apr 25, 2021)

These posts are getting me to think that maybe I will just repair mine with the screw method, and if I mess up, I can just do the add the gear method I described earlier.


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## ShagDog (Apr 26, 2021)

ADM, there is a cone pulley available on ebay right now, just listed yesterday. I am not experienced enough to advise on whether or not it is a good deal or if it will fit your lathe.


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## ADM (Apr 26, 2021)

ShagDog said:


> ADM, there is a cone pulley available on ebay right now, just listed yesterday. I am not experienced enough to advise on whether or not it is a good deal or if it will fit your lathe.


Thanks! I'll check it.


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## ADM (Apr 28, 2021)

Ended up taking a crack at doing the gear repair myself and I think it will work. Drilled and tapped for some 6/32 screws then TIG brazed silicone bronze around them. Shaped to finish.


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## SLK001 (Apr 28, 2021)

That should quiet up your back gears quite a lot.  Just be sure to check the profile carefully.  Put on some blue and run for a minute or two and check for uneven blue removal.  File down the spots that are shiny in one place.


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## ShagDog (Apr 28, 2021)

I ended up just finishing a similar repair on mine with a few differences. I made some threaded studs (6-32) out of brass and used JB weld to mount them closely together being a bigger diameter than the threaded portion.

I then milled it rough over-size ( I did not use the mill to cut the proper shape of the tooth) while my backgear was still set up on the mill. Then filed to semi fit the spare spur gear I bought as a backup plan. 

Used the blue dykem referenced by SLK. Took a while to get a good final fit while I test ran it by hand and then under power as I got the fit closer. Tested it doing some cuts in backgear. Seems to work fine. Hope it holds up well.

Thanks to this thread, I tried the repair and gained some new experience.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Apr 28, 2021)

awesome, great to hear feedback like that, it adds to the body of knowledge. That repair looks really solid ADM, bet that's saved you a bunch of cash and hassle finding a replacement!


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## ericc (Apr 28, 2021)

Great repair!  I did a similar thing, but without the TIG brazing.  Somehow, I couldn't get it to work.  I will try practicing, but meanwhile, it is working just fine.


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## Al 1 (Apr 28, 2021)

I like it.   Good luck with it.  Al


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## ADM (Apr 30, 2021)

Rookie question. Any idea what chuck I have here? (I didn't notice any markings, but I will take another look.) What is a good source for jaws? I need some that have the steps on the outside so that I can work on small parts closer to the spindle.


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## ShagDog (Apr 30, 2021)

Don't know what chuck brand; but, finding jaws for it is like finding a needle in a haystack. My 1979 Taiwan lathe only came with 1 set of jaws and they were the same configuration as yours. I tried to find jaws for it. Finally just bought a new chuck.


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## Manual Mac (Apr 30, 2021)

I’m with ShagDog on this.
Buy an inexpensive (was gonna say cheap, but they are actually well made)import 5” 3 jaw chuck.
Money well spent.
The only downside is you will probably have to machine a new back plate then spend lots of time cleaning all of the cast iron off/out of your new lathe.
Above all, have fun


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## Superburban (Apr 30, 2021)

I agree, even if you know the make of the chuck, you may still have a hard time finding jaws. I have 3 Atlas/ Craftsman 618 lathes, none of the jaws will interchange between them, even though the chucks look the same.


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## SLK001 (Apr 30, 2021)

ADM said:


> Rookie question. Any idea what chuck I have here? (I didn't notice any markings, but I will take another look.) What is a good source for jaws? I need some that have the steps on the outside so that I can work on small parts closer to the spindle.



Bad news on the jaws.  They are fitted to the chuck at the manufacturer - that's why each one is numbered with both the slot number and a partial serial number of your chuck.  The original jaws are probably sitting in a box on a shelf back at the original owners place.


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## ADM (May 2, 2021)

Manual Mac said:


> I’m with ShagDog on this.
> Buy an inexpensive (was gonna say cheap, but they are actually well made)import 5” 3 jaw chuck.
> Money well spent.
> The only downside is you will probably have to machine a new back plate then spend lots of time cleaning all of the cast iron off/out of your new lathe.
> Above all, have fun


Yeah, this is the route I will go. I will fit my existing backing plate to the new chuck and then have the old one around for a rotary fixture or whatever, as someone else suggested. Thank you!


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## ADM (May 14, 2021)

Well, got around to getting another chuck and fitting my existing backing plate to it.

Moving on to the tail stock and I have another question, if I may. The tail stock clamp plate that came
with it sure seems a little narrow. Did they make different sizes? Between the rails on my ways measures right about 2.18" and the clamp plate is not much wider than that. Thoughts?


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## SLK001 (May 14, 2021)

ADM said:


> Moving on to the tail stock and I have another question, if I may. The tail stock clamp plate that came
> with it sure seems a little narrow. Did they make different sizes? Between the rails on my ways measures right about 2.18" and the clamp plate is not much wider than that. Thoughts?



Don't worry.  The prismatic ways center the tail stock, not the clamp.  The clamp only provides a platform for downward pressure.

Your clamp does look a little sloppy.  However, the 56N3 is the proper part for a 9" lathe.


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## SLK001 (May 14, 2021)

I now see that your lathe is an older Workshop lathe (which predates the modern 9" lathe).  Your clamp probably _*isn't *_the correct part for that lathe.


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## SLK001 (May 14, 2021)

Here's a sketch from graham-xrf of his 9A lathe ways profile.  Unfortunately, a lot of the important dimensions are not filled in as of yet, especially the surface 11 to surface 12 dimension, which is what you are needing.


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## ADM (May 14, 2021)

Thank you!!


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## Manual Mac (May 14, 2021)

ADM, this is the tailstock clamp from my ‘38 SB9 workshop. Fits great, I always thought it was standard, but maybe not.
My lathe is a “C”, but produced a couple yrs before SB started the A,B & C designations.
I think (?) judging from the top spindle git oilers, yours is from the same time period.
I think our lathes are the earlier “modern” models, as SB was phasing out the 9” junior (or heavy9) at this time period.
I could (of course) be wrong about all of this.
But I don’t think so.
Cheers, Harvey


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## mattthemuppet2 (May 14, 2021)

mine's a heavy 9, so 2.75" gap between ways, but the difference between the gap and the width of the raised center piece of the clamp is only 1/16", so you may have a clamp from a different lathe or model. I wouldn't worry about it unless it causes issues, like tailstock slipping or the clamp twisting as you move the tail stock.


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