# Becoming hobby machinist in the near future.



## Rodneyk

Hello,

I am a long time woodworker, 3D printer builder/maker (even built a wood cnc) who has wanted to get into machining for a couple of reasons. First I want to make custom designs for 3d print heads which requires working with Steel (nozzles/heat blocks) and Aluminum. I also want to be able to work on firearm components. So I have been reading a lot of forums, watching lots of videos and generally putting my dreams in order. Originally I started looking at some of the Grizzly equipment, but eventually started getting the feeling the PM might be a better value for the money. So I had a few questions and would in generally appreciate any advice before pushing the buy button. My budget is flexible, but not unlimited, and I would prefer Buy once Cry Once over the alternative. Other things I am interested making are precision gears, tools, adding CNC motors to the mill (would love to mill the parts myself).

I intend on purchasing both a mill and a lathe, but since time is a thing and I am only one person I think I should buy one first and buy the other after I have time to get acquainted with the basic operation of the first that I buy. Which would be best to get first? Mill or Lathe. My thought was that the mill should be first since it is slightly more versatile. Also depending on availability.

I have been looking at the *PM-935TV *as the mill.
What options should I consider, and what options can I hold off on?
What are the things I will need to actually get it working? (endmills, collets, vise, )
How much space around the mill should I plan for?

For the lathe I am looking at the *PM-1340GT*.
What options should I consider, and what options can I hold off on?
What are the things I will need to actually get it working?
How much space around the lathe should I plan for?

Lastly Grizzly runs a special where you get a 5% discount for first time buyers on the website, does Precision Matthews have any deals like this?

Am I crazy or is this a reasonable place to start?


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## mmcmdl

You came to the right place !  Welcome aboard .

We are in the process of setting up a worksheet of sort for first time buyers that you could go thru and get most of your questions answered . I'm not sure if it's up and running just yet , but it should be soon .

We have close to 36,000 members on the site to date . We are trying to eliminate all the opinionated answers to the questions asked by our newest members . Lately when one asks a question , he'll get more confused from so may different opinions . We are trying to let the purchasers to go thru some basics and then they should be able to come up with a general plan for what they either need or want . 

There are plenty of very well versed members on the site and all are more than willing to help each other out .


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## Jim F

As new guy to the hobby, I will jump in first.
1) shop location ?
2) power available ?
3)Access to shop, ie Doors?,basement?, stairs?, etc.
4)Can you move the machines yourself or will you need help ?
5) What kind of work size will you be doing ?

These are things that need to be thought through.
You also need to consider that the machine is going to be about 1/2 of the $ you spend after you get tooling.
It is just a start,also.

As an example.
I have a garage, access is a 28" walk in door, 2 110V outlets.
Only a neighbor to help move things.
I only intend to do small projects, AR, AK and pistol stuff.
I opted for a used Grizzly G0463 benchtop mill/drill.
I have done 2 80% lowers and some glock parts with ease.
For a lathe, I went with a SB9C.
22" between centers, does everything I need.


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## 7milesup

Welcome RodneyK.
You come from a similar background as I.  Woodworking.  3D printing. etc.
Rest assured, all of us are very adept at spend others money.  
Based on your projects, it sounds like a mill would be good choice for first machine, as long as you don't plan on turning 3D nozzles, although there is a way to do that on a mill too.
If you are thinking about converting the mill to CNC at some point, you may be interested in reading the following PDF from one of our esteemed members, David Best.


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## wrmiller

I've been using a 935 and 1340GT for about 5 years or so. Great machines for what I do (mostly gunsmithing). I have no interest in CNC anything, so can't help you with that. But they are really good machines.


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## davidpbest

Welcome RodneyK,

[Edited}

I was asked last week by a friend who is buying a new mill and lathe to suggest some get-started items he will need.  So I put together a list, based largely on my own collection, with comments and suggestions from another member here.  The list is attached.  It does not include any cutting tools (end mills, lathe tooling, etc), nor does it speak to the issue of accessories such as lathe chucks, DRO's, power feeders, power drawbar, etc.  But it does represent a pretty complete list of the items I wouldn't be without for the kind of work I do.  A few lathe-specific items are included where versions of drill chucks and ER collet chucks would be common to both machines.

The list will probably come across as daunting, but you'll be amazed how much gear is required to properly support a mill and a lathe.  I've often heard that tooling up a lathe is about the same cost as the lathe itself, and I don't think that's far off, especially if you factor in DRO's and chucks.

I have tried to color-code the items in the attached list, with green being what I consider "must have", red for more advanced work, and yellow for specialty and REALLY advanced work.   Hope this helps.  If you download the file and open it locally, the hot-links should be enabled.

If you're considering a CNC mill project eventually, personally, I think a benchtop like the PM833TV is a better platform than a knee mill.  I've not done a CNC conversion, but studied it enough to know how I'd go about it, and attempting that with a knee mill looks like a very tough journey.


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## Aukai

Say RK welcome, I'm a junior hack here, I have a 1340 3ph in transit right now, I started out with a PM 1228. I went over to the Grizzly site, and they seem to be back ordered as well as the PM machines also. so that may complicate your time frame. There are some very knowledgeable 1340 owners here, David being one of them, you should be able to glean a considerable amount of information from their previous posts.   One strategy may be to put in a down payment, and hope someone backs out, and gives you a crack at getting one early.


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## talvare

Rodneyk,
I'm only commenting on one thing you mentioned in your post as there are plenty of folks here who have and will offer plenty of good advice. You mentioned that in the future you would like to add CNC capability to the mill. My personal feeling about this is that if you know you want CNC, buy the machine that way to begin with. Adding CNC to a manual mill is a pretty substantial project in terms of both effort and expense. 
Just food for thought.
Ted


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## Rodneyk

mmcmdl said:


> You came to the right place !  Welcome aboard .
> 
> We are in the process of setting up a worksheet of sort for first time buyers that you could go thru and get most of your questions answered . I'm not sure if it's up and running just yet , but it should be soon .
> 
> We have close to 36,000 members on the site to date . We are trying to eliminate all the opinionated answers to the questions asked by our newest members . Lately when one asks a question , he'll get more confused from so may different opinions . We are trying to let the purchasers to go thru some basics and then they should be able to come up with a general plan for what they either need or want .
> 
> There are plenty of very well versed members on the site and all are more than willing to help each other out .


Totally understand.   I am not really looking for opinions like this is good or bad (i.e. brand loyalty and did not mean to express any in my post) but rather information to help me sort out the order in which I might get started.  I am very much a list maker and shop trying to sort out stuff on my own looking at the Pros and Cons. It is just that there is SO much information that I need a little help to distill it a bit.  

Thank you for any assistance, it will be appreciated.


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## Pcmaker

If you are eventually converting to a CNC, I think a benchtop mill would be better than a knee mill. Get the heaviest Taiwanese made bench mill from PM you can afford.

I recommend the PM1340 as the lathe


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## Rodneyk

Jim F said:


> As new guy to the hobby, I will jump in first.
> 1) shop location ?
> 2) power available ?
> 3)Access to shop, ie Doors?,basement?, stairs?, etc.
> 4)Can you move the machines yourself or will you need help ?
> 5) What kind of work size will you be doing ?
> ...


Great list to start.  
My current wood shop is in a Garage with one full bay for all my equipment (so I will need to arrange things to fit).
Power in the shop is currently 120c single phase, but the mains in on the wall in that bay so I was planning on adding 240v 1 phase outlet.
Access to shop, Garage door and entrance to home easily accessable.
I will probabaly need to move the machines by myself (was planning on getting a HF 2ton hoist to help, but I might have help.
Size work, much of the stuff could fit on a mini mill/lathe but I desire very high precision for most of the projects, however I would also like to handle larger pieces like gun barrels too. I KNOW that most of precision comes from technique, but I can learn that, but I prefer to not fight the equipment to get there.


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## Rodneyk

7milesup said:


> Welcome RodneyK.
> You come from a similar background as I.  Woodworking.  3D printing. etc.
> Rest assured, all of us are very adept at spend others money.
> Based on your projects, it sounds like a mill would be good choice for first machine, as long as you don't plan on turning 3D nozzles, although there is a way to do that on a mill too.
> If you are thinking about converting the mill to CNC at some point, you may be interested in reading the following PDF from one of our esteemed members, David Best.


Excellent, this is great information. I would definitely like to convert the mill into a CNC at some point. 
One of the main reasons I even started considering getting metalworking equipment it that I have some designs for extruder gears and nozzles that I'd like to try. Once I started researching the equipment I started down a rabbit hole from "a mini mill/lathe could cut it" to if I add $500 dollars I can do more, to look at all the other things I can build for a little more money, to "Honey, can I buy a real machine, please, please, please"


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## Rodneyk

davidpbest said:


> Welcome RodneyK,
> 
> [Edited}
> 
> I was asked last week by a friend who is buying a new mill and lathe to suggest some get-started items he will need.  So I put together a list, based largely on my own collection, with comments and suggestions from another member here.  The list is attached.  It does not include any cutting tools (end mills, lathe tooling, etc), nor does it speak to the issue of accessories such as lathe chucks, DRO's, power feeders, power drawbar, etc.  But it does represent a pretty complete list of the items I wouldn't be without for the kind of work I do.  A few lathe-specific items are included where versions of drill chucks and ER collet chucks would be common to both machines.
> 
> The list will probably come across as daunting, but you'll be amazed how much gear is required to properly support a mill and a lathe.  I've often heard that tooling up a lathe is about the same cost as the lathe itself, and I don't think that's far off, especially if you factor in DRO's and chucks.
> 
> I have tried to color-code the items in the attached list, with green being what I consider "must have", red for more advanced work, and yellow for specialty and REALLY advanced work.   Hope this helps.  If you download the file and open it locally, the hot-links should be enabled.
> 
> If you're considering a CNC mill project eventually, personally, I think a benchtop like the PM833TV is a better platform than a knee mill.  I've not done a CNC conversion, but studied it enough to know how I'd go about it, and attempting that with a knee mill looks like a very tough journey.


Thank you, this is the sort of thing I was looking for.  I am not hard set on the knee mill, I just really was trying to avoid getting something that I would out grow. I will look more at the PM833TV...


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## Rodneyk

Pcmaker said:


> If you are eventually converting to a CNC, I think a benchtop mill would be better than a knee mill. Get the heaviest Taiwanese made bench mill from PM you can afford.
> 
> I recommend the PM1340 as the lathe


So that looks like the PM-833TV if I look at the site correctly?


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## Pcmaker

Rodneyk said:


> So that looks like the PM-833TV if I look at the site correctly?



I think so


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## 7milesup

Rodneyk said:


> So that looks like the PM-833TV if I look at the site correctly?



That would be correct.  The other mill that might be an option is the 728VT.  There was recently a thread on here about someone looking to convert it to CNC.  I have the 833T.  They did not have the TV version when I bought mine.  Personally, I really like mine but have not converted it yet.  It is on my seemingly never ending to-do list.  

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/precision-matthews-pm-728vt-cnc-conversion.89172/
Also... https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pm-728vt-conversion.83937/

And from an outside link that really piqued my interest... ---> 833TV CNC Conversion<---


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## Flyinfool

You mentioned buy once cry once. Very true.
If you really want to end up with a CNC mill, Buy it that way.
In the process of doing the conversion you will be removing and replacing some expensive parts. If you initially buy as a CNC it will be a lot less money in the end.
On the other hand, since you are new to machining, you will learn a lot more and faster by starting with a manual machine. With a manual you can feel the cutter doing its job and adjust the speed of your hand to compensate. A CNC will just keep plowing ahead till something breaks.

My Tree 2UVR mill is a bit bigger that any of the PM machines or the Bridgeport. I am looking at around $3K to do a CNC conversion with me machining all the parts. You also have to really have the design of the conversion very well planned out because once you tear it apart to do the conversion you can no longer make any parts on it.

You mentioned some gunsmith work, I also am down that rabbit hole, Make sure what ever you buy is big enough to work on the biggest gun you will ever have. The lathe needs room for the barrel length but do not forget to add length for the 3 or 4 jaw chuck, and at the other end you may need room for a drill chuck and drill bit. All this stuff adds up quick.
Same for the mill, make sure it is long enough to set up a barreled action and indicate one end and machine the other end.

Yes there are pros and cons to everything, only you can decide which are most important to you. What is best for me may not be at all appropriate for you.


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## Rodneyk

davidpbest said:


> Welcome RodneyK,
> 
> [Edited}
> 
> I was asked last week by a friend who is buying a new mill and lathe to suggest some get-started items he will need.  So I put together a list, based largely on my own collection, with comments and suggestions from another member here.  The list is attached.  It does not include any cutting tools
> 
> ...
> 
> If you're considering a CNC mill project eventually, personally, I think a benchtop like the PM833TV is a better platform than a knee mill.  I've not done a CNC conversion, but studied it enough to know how I'd go about it, and attempting that with a knee mill looks like a very tough journey.


David, Thank you for the list, it is fantastic.  
What are you thoughts on adding power feeds on a mill?  From the website the warrantee is 5 years if it is preinstalled, and only 1 year if user installed. It seems like it would be useful for getting predictable feed rates (at least in the X) for operations like facing.


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## 7milesup

Rodneyk said:


> David, Thank you for the list, it is fantastic.
> What are you thoughts on adding power feeds on a mill?  From the website the warrantee is 5 years if it is preinstalled, and only 1 year if user installed. It seems like it would be useful for getting predictable feed rates (at least in the X) for operations like facing.


Power feeds will certainly give you more predictable feed rates, and hence, better finishes for facing operations.  That being said, I personally have not added them to mine because I don't want to spend $800+ on them only to take them back off if I convert to CNC.


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## davidpbest

Rodneyk said:


> David, Thank you for the list, it is fantastic.
> What are you thoughts on adding power feeds on a mill?  From the website the warrantee is 5 years if it is preinstalled, and only 1 year if user installed. It seems like it would be useful for getting predictable feed rates (at least in the X) for operations like facing.


I'll send you a DM on this.


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## myfinishingtouch

David B is not wrong on the cost of the accessories on his spreadsheet.  My son and I are venturing into metalworking and have no prior knowledge and had no idea what all was needed.  From a beginner's standpoint the spreadsheet is invaluable.  Rotagrip in the UK is great to work with and has great pricing on Vertex and Albrecht items.  We ended up buying an Acra LCM50 and 1440TVS and then started in on David's spreadsheet.  $7,500 so far and still have a way to go.  I have the intermediate and basic toolholders from his list but am still trying to wrap my arms around spending probably $1,500+ just for the inserts.  Not counting the DROs I'll have at least $10k into David's spreadsheet before we get serious about making chips.  It's getting close.  Theoretically the lathe is getting delivered next Monday...but the snowstorm coming could easily delay the delivery.
Dave


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## Dabbler

One more comment on CNC.  A CNC mill is truly a different beast that a manual mill.  You'd be surprised by this but I think you are looking at two completely different machines.  Almost as different as a lathe and a mill.

Get a manual mill and build some skills like feeds and speeds, tooling, and measuring.  When you are ready buy a small CNC mill.

I have a friend that started very much in the position and desire as you.  So far he has bought a mill/drill, a larger manual mill, a converted mill, and finally a HAAS VF1.  He still uses the round column desktop mill for operations.  all but the mill/drill and HAAS he had to sell at a loss.

All that equipment changing and retooling is quite expensive. 

Another case study is Clough42.   A great guy, and quite bright.  He CNC'd his desktop mill and still bought a manual mill.


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## davidpbest

myfinishingtouch said:


> David B is not wrong on the cost of the accessories on his spreadsheet.  My son and I are venturing into metalworking and have no prior knowledge and had no idea what all was needed.  From a beginner's standpoint the spreadsheet is invaluable.  Rotagrip in the UK is great to work with and has great pricing on Vertex and Albrecht items.  We ended up buying an Acra LCM50 and 1440TVS and then started in on David's spreadsheet.  $7,500 so far and still have a way to go.  I have the intermediate and basic toolholders from his list but am still trying to wrap my arms around spending probably $1,500+ just for the inserts.  Not counting the DROs I'll have at least $10k into David's spreadsheet before we get serious about making chips.  It's getting close.  Theoretically the lathe is getting delivered next Monday...but the snowstorm coming could easily delay the delivery.
> Dave


If you’d like some help selecting NOS inserts on eBay for your lathe tooling, let me know.  You have to know what you are doing but you can often find partial packs at reasonable prices without having to resort to Asian junk.


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## MtnBiker

Rodneyk said:


> Power in the shop is currently 120c single phase, but the mains in on the wall in that bay so I was planning on adding 240v 1 phase outlet.


Consider adding a surface mounted sub-panel from your main. Lot's of advantages. You'll be able to run conduit and wire it yourself (not that hard). You can turn off the sub-panel without turning off your house and safely add/mod circuits. Also easy to add high amperage circuits and put them where you want them without cutting drywall (we have 2 50 amp for welders, a 6-20 20amp for our saw, etc). That let's you tailor breaker size for your equipment. And you can run multiple circuits in conduit to enable dedicated outlets without running a spider web of conduit (we were popping breakers with our air compressor because of weak knee'd 15-amp GFCIs). The 20 amp 120's work so much better.

Something like this maybe. Runs 11 outlets plus direct wire to my mill. No drywall was hurt during the filming of this sub-panel installation.


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## Rodneyk

Not sure if I put this up here but I have ordered both a PM833tv and a PM1340gt (3 phase version)  a few weeks ago.  I have been working with Mark Jacobs on a control panel (okay he is working I am waiting).  As for power I am waiting for an electrician to come and install a pair of 220v outlets for the machines.

When I ordered some stuff was on back order, but I was told that a shipment was expected by 2/5 (which has already passed). One of the backordered items has already shipped so I am hoping the others will not be long.


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## Rodneyk

PM833TV shipped today should take about a week to cross the US to the West coast.
The PM1340GT is on a ship somewhere between here and Asia (Cosco Sakura). and is expected to get to QMT in April.


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## DAT510

Congrats!  Looks like your Lathe is off the coast of Northern Japan.





__





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## 7milesup

DAT510 said:


> Congrats!  Looks like your Lathe is off the coast of Northern Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarineTraffic: Global Ship Tracking Intelligence | AIS Marine Traffic
> 
> 
> MarineTraffic Live Ships Map. Discover information and vessel positions for vessels around the world. Search the MarineTraffic ships database of more than 550000 active and decommissioned vessels. Search for popular ships globally. Find locations of ports and ships using the near Real Time ships...
> 
> 
> 
> www.marinetraffic.com


Wow, she's drafting 42ft.  Making a little over 19 knots.


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## Aukai

Slow boat from Taiwan. that's a sizable draft, and that's not even 22 MPH....


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## Rodneyk

The milling machine was delivered today! and it looks like the Lathe is getting farther away (since it needs to go to PM first and the ship was closed to the west coast.


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## Pcmaker

Did you get the 833TV?


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## Rodneyk

Pcmaker said:


> Did you get the 833TV?


Yesm and it appears they changed the spindle based on feedback. If you look at mine VS the catalog you can see that the shaft on mine (although covered in the pic) is very accessible. I read previous people had issues because they could not easily get a tool on it for tightening the drawbar. The black cap come off with a quick twist exposing  it.


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## davidpbest

Can you post a photo of what the shaft looks like with the black cap removed please?  That does look like a different spindle design, and probably easier to deal with for PDB design.


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## Tipton1965

davidpbest said:


> Can you post a photo of what the shaft looks like with the black cap removed please?  That does look like a different spindle design, and probably easier to deal with for PDB design.


I'm interested in a photo too.  Wonder if there are some flats under the cap for a wrench?  Makes me wonder why mine wasn't like this.  I'm sure mine was on the same boat as the OP since I just received mine to.


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## Pcmaker

You should look into installing a power drawbar. I can't live without mine now


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## Tipton1965

For comparison here is my new 833TV next to Rodneyk's machine.  Looks like they just shortened the head some.
​


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## Rodneyk

davidpbest said:


> Can you post a photo of what the shaft looks like with the black cap removed please?  That does look like a different spindle design, and probably easier to deal with for PDB design.


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## Rodneyk

Pcmaker said:


> You should look into installing a power drawbar. I can't live without mine now


I had a brief email with Mr. Priest about the Power draw bar, but since this appears to be different than the other 833tv machines it might have to have something unique.


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## Pcmaker

You can just make a new drawbar like I did with my PM25MV and you can buy the one of the ones that PM sells


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## davidpbest

Personally, I think it would look great and perform very well with a _*Maxi Torque-Rite PDB*_.  






It would need stand-offs or a custom riser block turned on his new 1340 lathe but simple enough.


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## Tipton1965

davidpbest said:


> Personally, I think it would look great and perform very well with a _*Maxi Torque-Rite PDB*_.
> 
> View attachment 360445
> 
> 
> It would need stand-offs or a custom riser block turned on his new 1340 lathe but simple enough.


The machinist hobby has as many cool toys as the classic car hobby.  Haven't had this much fun since restoring my 73 Camaro.


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## davidpbest

> The machinist hobby has as many cool toys as the classic car hobby.  Haven't had this much fun since restoring my 73 Camaro.



Then you clearly need one of these:  https://www.hschmidt.com/product/indexer-spin-fixture-nbi/


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## Tipton1965

davidpbest said:


> Then you clearly need one of these:  https://www.hschmidt.com/product/indexer-spin-fixture-nbi/


At least it includes a Mahogany Case.   I added it to my cart but that's where it's going to stay.


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## Rodneyk

davidpbest said:


> Personally, I think it would look great and perform very well with a _*Maxi Torque-Rite PDB*_.
> 
> It would need stand-offs or a custom riser block turned on his new 1340 lathe but simple enough.


Which is somewhere near Panama at this time


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## Rodneyk

Here is the Spindle with the drawbar installed. The tool to hold the drawbar is behind the spindle.

This only issue I see is the the drawbar corners must mesh with the "flutes" on the spindle or you cannot remove the tool 

I think shaving down the corners on the drawbar head a little would solve that issue. 

The tool is quite beefy/heavy/solid and fits the spindle tight but still slides in place easily (no lash to speak of).







Not I did not use the chain to move the mill, this pic was taken right after my friend removed the sling/strap. Still need to finish installation. Now that I have the mill on the stand I am sure to have LOTS of stupid questions in the future!


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## Aukai

DO NOT take your hand off of that wrench until it is sitting on the bench before turning it on. It happened to a friend


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## davidpbest

That longer splined end of the spindle looks like a much better solution to me than what I have seen in other versions of the 833.  That said, the interference of the drawbar hex corners with the spline wrench would drive me crazy.  Instead of that spline wrench, you might find that a certain size 12-point box-end wrench will fit the splines and still give clearance past the hex-head.  

If you plan on implementing a power drawbar, you might live with it until the PDB project pops to the top of the list.  If you go for the Maxi Torque-Rite PDB, it comes with a custom new drawbar to fit your machine.

But instead of beavering off the corners of the hex cap, I would be inclined to bring the entire hex-head down in size by milling off all six sides in an ER40 Hex collet block.  Kinda hard to do without a second drawbar, but you can buy replacement drawbars easy enough - or make your own. You have to be precise in picking a replacement drawbar on length, but the R8 end is threaded 7/16-20.  _*Here*_ are a few, or PM may have one specific to the 833.

This is another alternative - used in place of the spline wrench.  I made a slightly more robust version of this for my RF-45.  They are available on eBay _*here*_. It's basically a spring-loaded plunger that you push on to engage with one of the splines and it locks the spindle. When you let go, it springs back automatically. Less likely you'll forget and leave a spline wrench on the spindle with this kind of setup and it's easily installed and works with existing unmodified drawbar.


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## Rodneyk

Aukai said:


> DO NOT take your hand off of that wrench until it is sitting on the bench before turning it on. It happened to a friend


Yes I understand. Currently the machine is still being assembled, and has not plug even mounted to it so I decided to take the quick photo so people could see the tool and the new spindle in one shot. I make it a habit to never work on a machine (maintenance that is) unless it is unplugged, and I won't plug it in until it has been sanitized of tools.


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## Rodneyk

davidpbest said:


> That longer splined end of the spindle looks like a much better solution to me than what I have seen in other versions of the 833.  That said, the interference of the drawbar hex corners with the spline wrench would drive me crazy.  Instead of that spline wrench, you might find that a certain size 12-point box-end wrench will fit the splines and still give clearance past the hex-head.
> 
> If you plan on implementing a power drawbar, you might live with it until the PDB project pops to the top of the list.  If you go for the Maxi Torque-Rite PDB, it comes with a custom new drawbar to fit your machine.
> 
> But instead of beavering off the corners of the hex cap, I would be inclined to bring the entire hex-head down in size by milling off all six sides in an ER40 Hex collet block.  Kinda hard to do without a second drawbar, but you can buy replacement drawbars easy enough - or make your own. You have to be precise in picking a replacement drawbar on length, but the R8 end is threaded 7/16-20.  _*Here*_ are a few, or PM may have one specific to the 833.
> 
> This is another alternative - used in place of the spline wrench.  I made a slightly more robust version of this for my RF-45.  They are available on eBay _*here*_. It's basically a spring-loaded plunger that you push on to engage with one of the splines and it locks the spindle. When you let go, it springs back automatically. Less likely you'll forget and leave a spline wrench on the spindle with this kind of setup and it's easily installed and works with existing unmodified drawbar.
> 
> View attachment 360634


Since I hope to add a power drawbar at some point I think I will learn to live with it for now.  I have a lot of learning to do in the meantime so I am not nearly as concerned about speed of tool changes.


----------



## davidpbest

> so I am not nearly as concerned about speed of tool changes.



Trust me, you'll get there soon enough.


----------



## Rhizome

Maxi Torque-Rite makes a PDB version for the PM-833T/TV?  

I am using a spline wrench on my PM-833T and the hex corner of the draw bar interferes with the wrench at certain angles as you guys discussed.  It is annoying sometimes, so I think eventually I will make a new one, mill the draw bar hex head smaller or install a PDB.


----------



## Rodneyk

Rhizome said:


> Maxi Torque-Rite makes a PDB version for the PM-833T/TV?
> 
> I am using a spline wrench on my PM-833T and the hex corner of the draw bar interferes with the wrench at certain angles as you guys discussed.  It is annoying sometimes, so I think eventually I will make a new one, mill the draw bar hex head smaller or install a PDB.


Just a guess but from what I can tell it would be a custom system, not something they intended for their "packaged" models. And since it looks like there are several unique versions of the PM833TVV now you would need to make some adapter for your machine.


----------



## davidpbest

Rodneyk said:


> Just a guess but from what I can tell it would be a custom system, not something they intended for their "packaged" models. And since it looks like there are several unique versions of the PM833TVV now you would need to make some adapter for your machine.


I think the first decision is whether to use the TTS system or stick with R8.  They each require a different type of power drawbar setup.  If you want to go down that hole, we can.

But assuming and R8 collets and arbors, the the Torque Right would be a good solution.  The manufacturer of Maxi TorqueRite makes custom versions of their PDB all the time.  I have a custom install on my PM-935.  They will need a few dimensions to figure the right dimension of the drawbar itself.  And given the stick-out of that splined spindle end, the head unit will need to be mounted in an elevated position.  The same was true on my PM-935.  You can see in the photo below that it's elevated on stand-offs provided by the manufacturer.  In the case of the 833, it looks like the top of the mill head is a sheet metal cover.  Depending on the thickness of that sheet metal you might be able to use stand-offs like shown below, or if it were mine, I'd make a custom riser ring out of 6061 aluminum which would take about an hour between the lathe and mill time to make.












The drawbar on the Maxi TorqueRite has a splined head - which is one of the ways they get the amount of torque on the drawbar that they advertise.  This is the kind of spec sheet you fill out and send in, and they make the drawbar to fit your machine.


----------



## Tipton1965

Good info guys.  I too need to come up with something clever to tighten the draw bar on my 833TV.


----------



## Rodneyk

Tipton1965 said:


> Good info guys.  I too need to come up with something clever to tighten the draw bar on my 833TV.


What does you machine look like?  Having different versions of the same model must be hard for the QMT/PM guys to support.  I guess I got lucky with my version in that at least I can easily get a hold on the machine.

Currently I have the machine 

Assembled in its hew home
Leveled the bed 
surprisingly I had leveled the stand across the mounting pads, 
then move the stand 6" to the left
and totally messed up the level (but figured I had to level the bed anyway so I continued)
then when I went to level the bed it was spot on already with just the feet making positive contact with the ground

mounted the DRO display
mounted the handles (which will come off to put on the power feed in the next step, but I needed some way to veryify the DRO is happy
The lash on the table is way more than I expected (5 ticks which are 0.02" if memory serves me so 0.1" from when the handled it reversed to when it moves the table in the reverse direction. Really glad I got the DRO now.  Later I will look into if I can reduce the lash.
Added 220V plug end. 
Triple checked the wiring and for any shorts.
Cleared the machine of any tools or foreign objects.
Plugged in the machine to the outlet, heard cooling fan come on and no evil sparks of doom emitted from anywhere.

Tested that the spindle turned at a few speeds.


----------



## Tipton1965

Rodneyk said:


> What does you machine look like?  Having different versions of the same model must be hard for the QMT/PM guys to support.  I guess I got lucky with my version in that at least I can easily get a hold on the machine.


I posted this photo earlier in your thread but will post it again.  It's my machine next to yours. I believe the only difference is the upper sheet metal cover.  Mine bumps up in front of the motor where as yours continues flat to reveal the shaft.


----------



## Rodneyk

Tipton1965 said:


> I posted this photo earlier in your thread but will post it again.  It's my machine next to yours. I believe the only difference is the upper sheet metal cover.  Mine bumps up in front of the motor where as yours continues flat to reveal the shaft.


Yeah, I would bet that it is only a cover and faceplate difference.  I imagine they were in the middle of changing the design between the machines, and part of their order was your design because they were already built and part was mine.  My SN is 20059, assuming sn are in order I would bet yours comes before mine.

Somewhere on this forum I saw another person who had the issue you are seeing.  I think he made a tool that was like a wrench with 2 opposing right angles that fit into the hole. I read the post about a day after ordering the mill and I was worried the entire time that I would need to do something like that (and I don't have any welding equipment in my shop yet) I guess I could 3d print something that would work (I have printed other tools that had to be much stronger than that.  Maybe after I finish setting up mine I will see if I can come up with something.  If you have time post some measurements. For example how large is the hole on the top of your machine where the tool needs to go. I assume the drawbar measurements will be the same as my machine


----------



## Tipton1965

Rodneyk said:


> Yeah, I would bet that it is only a cover and faceplate difference.  I imagine they were in the middle of changing the design between the machines, and part of their order was your design because they were already built and part was mine.  My SN is 20059, assuming sn are in order I would bet yours comes before mine.
> 
> Somewhere on this forum I saw another person who had the issue you are seeing.  I think he made a tool that was like a wrench with 2 opposing right angles that fit into the hole. I read the post about a day after ordering the mill and I was worried the entire time that I would need to do something like that (and I don't have any welding equipment in my shop yet) I guess I could 3d print something that would work (I have printed other tools that had to be much stronger than that.  Maybe after I finish setting up mine I will see if I can come up with something.  If you have time post some measurements. For example how large is the hole on the top of your machine where the tool needs to go. I assume the drawbar measurements will be the same as my machine


My SN is 20004 so you may be right on that.  The hole in the top of the sheet metal cover measures 1.950".  Here's a few pics of other measurements.  The one measurement is the overall length of the draw bar including the Hex top portion.


----------



## Rhizome

davidpbest said:


> I think the first decision is whether to use the TSS system or stick with R8.  They each require a different type of power drawbar setup.  If you want to go down that hole, we can.


David, what does the acronym TSS stand for?  I searched, but could not come up with a definitive answer.  

The PM-833T's gear box does not have that sheet metal extension on top.  I suppose a PDB from Maxi TorqueRite will bolt right onto the cast iron.  Here is a picture for comparison to the TV version.  That yellow-cap nut may get in the way though.


----------



## davidpbest

Sorry if I sent you on a wild goose chase, but the term is TTS not TSS.  TTS is the Tormach Tool System - it was invented by Tormach and is essentially a quick-change tool holding system.  It facilitates use of an automatic tool changer and also makes it possible for any specific tool to register to the same dimensional stick-out from the spindle when the tool is mounted.  With this system a TTS collet is installed in the spindle - it's R8 at the back end, and has a precision cylindrical hole at the other.  Each tool (end mill, drill chuck, saw arbor, face mill, whatever) is installed into a dedicated TTS compatiable tool holder that fits into the cylindrical hole in the TTS collet.  When the drawbar is pulled up, the collet squeezes around the outside of the tool holder and also pulls the tool holder up to register consistently in the vertical direction.  With this setup, tools can be changed by simply pushing down on the TTS collet, freeing the tool holder, rather than having to completely unwind the drawbar threads in the R8 collet or R8 arbor.

This is the TTS R8 collet.  It's mounted in the conventional manner with a drawbar threading into the end.  But it can be set up in a manner that a power drawbar only has to push down on the collet about 1/4" to release the tool.





Here are typical tool holders - end mill and drill chuck arbor:









Ultimately you end up with all your mill tools mounted in dedicated TTS tool holders like this:






A power drawbar for this system does not have to rotate the drawbar - it only needs to push down on it.  So a TTS PDB is typically built using Bellville washer as the high tension springs that keep the collet pullled up and closed on the TTS tool holder until an actuator (typically pneumatic) pushes down on the drawbar to release the tool. 

A conventional R8 power drawbar is typically built using the guts of a pneumatic impact wrench to unscrew the drawbar completely from whatever tool is currently in the spindle.  The Maxi TorqueRite system is one commercially available system that functions in this manner, but there are others (Kurt makes one) and a lot of people build their own. 

The TTS system is quicker to use, but the force holding the tool in the collet is limited by the strength of the springs pulling up on the collet.  In aggressive milling operations, some users have experienced tool slippage or even tool pull-out with the TTS system.  Still many owners of mills in the 833 class of machine use the TTS system successfully.  I use another style system called the Royal EasyChange system that doesn't require any type of power drawbar, but that's another subject completely.

Here are some resources that might help wrapping your head around all this.

_*This video*_ gives a good overview of a TTS power drawbar build.

*Priest Tools* makes after-market TTS power drawbar system.  *Here's an example* of someone adapting the Priest to an 833.

*This video *_goes over a typical impact wrench implementation of an R8 PDB._

*Here is another * R8 PDB implementation.

Of all the R8 PDB DIY implementations I've seen, _*this design*_ is what I would copy if I made my own (skip to 34.40 in the timeline).

Hope this helps.


----------



## Rodneyk

X powerfeed done. The image makes the DRO display look tilted, but it is actually level, darn wide angle lens.

Anyways the instructions for installing the power feed has you drill and tap the bed to attach the power feed. But in the box there was a clamp attached to the mounting bracket that fit perfectly on the bed and does not require drilling and tapping. Since the instructions are from 2017 I am guessing that this was a part that was not available on the power feeds then. It installed very easily with any drilling or tapping. The feed is very smooth and the only time it makes any clicking noises it when you first engage the motor if the internal gears are not meshed (one click as they mesh to engage.

Next is the Z power feed.  The bracket that they sent for the endstops is different than they instructions show (the bracket in the manual has a predrilled hole 90 degrees to the bracket, mine does not), and since the DRO is mounted where they show the Z endstop bracket I will need to figure out where to put it.


----------



## Tipton1965

I was also anticipating drilling and tapping the end of my table for the X power feed.  But my unit also contained the bracket that just bolts/clamps in place.  Really nice fit.  I didn't like the cheesy plastic stops that came with it though.  I will be making an aluminum set with the mill.

On the Z power feed bracket I had to drill holes for the attaching bolts as well as clearance holes to tighten them.


----------



## Rodneyk

Tipton1965 said:


> My SN is 20004 so you may be right on that.  The hole in the top of the sheet metal cover measures 1.950".  Here's a few pics of other measurements.  The one measurement is the overall length of the draw bar including the Hex top portion.


How large is the hole in the sheet metal (the access port) where the tool needs to go?


----------



## Tipton1965

Rodneyk said:


> How large is the hole in the sheet metal (the access port) where the tool needs to go?


The hole in the top of the sheet metal cover measures 1.950".


----------



## Rhizome

As far as backlash, My PM-833T's X-axis is 0.011" and Y-axis is 0.015".  I am not sure if these number can be reduced.  FWIW, there was this thread that discussed the issue.  

Rodneyk, is that PF you just installed the one listed on the PM-833T/TV page?  The brand is Align base on  your picture, but that information is not indicated on the PM page, so I am wondering.


----------



## davidpbest

Rhizome said:


> As far as backlash, My PM-833T's X-axis is 0.011" and Y-axis is 0.015".  I am not sure if these number can be reduced.  FWIW, there was this thread that discussed the issue.


That is too much backlash.  I suspect the handle is loose on the leadscrew, or the split nut is not fully secured.  The thread you called out goes through the diagnostic and correction process.  The split nuts on my PM935 were also loose enough to give way under climb cutting which was causing broken end mills as the table lurched forward and the tool tried to take a 0.015" depth of cut into stainless.


----------



## Tipton1965

I've got .007" backlash in the X and .010" in the Y.


----------



## Rodneyk

Rhizome said:


> As far as backlash, My PM-833T's X-axis is 0.011" and Y-axis is 0.015".  I am not sure if these number can be reduced.  FWIW, there was this thread that discussed the issue.
> 
> Rodneyk, is that PF you just installed the one listed on the PM-833T/TV page?  The brand is Align base on  your picture, but that information is not indicated on the PM page, so I am wondering.


I ordered on the Phone because I wanted the mag dro which was not available on the web site at the time. So because I was talking to a human at the time I cannot know for sure if it was something from the website. 

The invoice shows:
PF-PM-833T-X
PF-PM-833T-Z

Both units that I received are Align units.


----------



## Tipton1965

Rhizome said:


> FWIW, there was this thread that discussed the issue.


I might be confused but in that video isn't he adjusting the X axis backlash and not the Y?  Or do those bolts go through and hold the Y axis nut as well?


----------



## Rodneyk

davidpbest said:


> That is too much backlash.  I suspect the handle is loose on the leadscrew, or the split nut is not fully secured.  The thread you called out goes through the diagnostic and correction process.  The split nuts on my PM935 were also loose enough to give way under climb cutting which was causing broken end mills as the table lurched forward and the tool tried to take a 0.015" depth of cut into stainless.


The backlash is pretty big on my machine too (0.008"X & Y - 8 ticks on the dial) but the Z is pretty good at less than 0.001" on the dial.
The DRO makes it less of an issue since I can plan around X&Y lash for now.

After looking at the backlash thread noted above (the video is much lower in the thread than noted) I realize then 8 thousands is not nearly as bad as the people in that thread. They were moving the handle 8 major ticks (80 small ticks) where as mine is 8 small ticks.  Still 4 would be twice as good...


----------



## Rhizome

David, what would be a good target for backlash on the PM-833T/TV axes?  I can live with mine right now, but will someday take off the table to try to minimize backlash as much as possible.


----------



## cday2021

Rodneyk said:


> Next is the Z power feed.  The bracket that they sent for the endstops is different than they instructions show (the bracket in the manual has a predrilled hole 90 degrees to the bracket, mine does not), and since the DRO is mounted where they show the Z endstop bracket I will need to figure out where to put it.


I had the same issue.... I installed the Z axis limit stops on the right side of my mill since the left side seemed like the most sensible place to put the DRO scale. See the following link for pictures:

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/magxact-dro-for-pm-833t.91592/post-837681

Just remember that you will need to flip the switches inside the limit stop switch housing so it operates on the right side on the machine (given it is flipped upside down when installed on the right hand side).


----------



## Tipton1965

For peace of mind I went ahead and checked those three bolts on the lead screw nut.  I just moved the table out of the way so I could easily reach the bolt heads.  I supported it on the other end with a roller support.  Mine were all tight already.  Since it was easy access I went ahead and tightened the nut slightly to reduce back lash in the X axis.  I was also able to get a long hex wrench with a ball on the end down inside to adjust the Y axis nut as well.  It was a little difficult but doable.


----------



## Rodneyk

cday2021 said:


> I had the same issue.... I installed the Z axis limit stops on the right side of my mill since the left side seemed like the most sensible place to put the DRO scale. See the following link for pictures:
> 
> https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/magxact-dro-for-pm-833t.91592/post-837681
> 
> Just remember that you will need to flip the switches inside the limit stop switch housing so it operates on the right side on the machine (given it is flipped upside down when installed on the right hand side).


Thanks, I was worried that there would not be enough space on the right since the handle it in the way.  I was thinking about installing them on the left with a rise block so the switches would essentially mount to the same bracket the DRO uses...


----------



## Rodneyk

Tipton1965 said:


> For peace of mind I went ahead and checked those three bolts on the lead screw nut.  I just moved the table out of the way so I could easily reach the bolt heads.  I supported it on the other end with a roller support.  Mine were all tight already.  Since it was easy access I went ahead and tightened the nut slightly to reduce back lash in the X axis.  I was also able to get a long hex wrench with a ball on the end down inside to adjust the Y axis nut as well.  It was a little difficult but doable.


Nice, and I see you used the power feed clamps too.  The response I got from QMT on it was that it was not intended for this model, but if it works that it should be fine to use (they were not certain it would mesh the gears but it does).


----------



## Rodneyk

Well I made some chips with the mill this evening. Determined in the process I mounted the vice in the wrong place (back to front) so I was cutting with the bed in the full forward position to reach the back face. Darn it I had that vise dialed in less than 5 tenths (0.0005") over the face of the vise. Well its a learning lesson right...

Anyways I guess I need to get a metal band saw to cut quicker, but I used the mill to give me practice, cutting a 1.5 square bar to the size I want for the bracket (after facing the top as practice)  I made lots of small cuts conventional milling with a 1/2" two fluted endmill. Cutting front to back 0.02 wider than I intended then back to front to dimension. I varied the depth of cut experimenting to see how the machine handled the cuts. I found that I had not seated the endmill deep enough at first but fixed that after a few cuts. Cutting 0.1" seemed rough, 0.05" went much more smoothly, and 0.025" seemed like cutting butter (adjusting feed speeds by the feel of the machine).  The spindle never slowed down, but The machine did vibrate during the more aggressive cuts.  I know part of that was the I was cutting further away from the vise than I should have been, primarily because heck it was my first time using the machine and I really did not want to run into the vise. 

On thing I have to say is I LOVE how repeatable the mill is compared to my wood working tools. Being able to stop the mill because of an electrical storm, re-position the endmill, and still beable to trust the tools position is something I could never do with my woodworking tools...


----------



## Rhizome

Rodneyk said:


> On thing I have to say is I LOVE how repeatable the mill is compared to my wood working tools.


Heh.  I can relate to this statement.  One of my reasons for getting the mill is to drill more accurately and have less run out.  A terrible thought, but I think I want a Bridgeport/similar full-size knee mill.  Though I find not having a metal lathe limiting, so that will be next.


----------



## Tipton1965

Rodneyk said:


> Well I made some chips with the mill this evening.


What type of material were you cutting?


----------



## Rodneyk

Tipton1965 said:


> What type of material were you cutting?


Mild Steel. At least that is the guy at the metal store said when I pulled it out of the scrap pile...


----------



## Rodneyk

Rhizome said:


> Heh.  I can relate to this statement.  One of my reasons for getting the mill is to drill more accurately and have less run out.  A terrible thought, but I think I want a Bridgeport/similar full-size knee mill.  Though I find not having a metal lathe limiting, so that will be next.


I also ordered a Metal Lathe (PM1340GT) which arrived in NYC this morning at 0737 (Boat). Next it goes to QMP/PM and then supposedly I am number 3 on the list for that shipment, they expect the shipment late in April (so getting from Tiwan to NYC takes about the same time as from NYC to PA. Then it will have to make it's way across the USA to Washington and I am a bit scared about getting that beast installed (yes I know it is a small mill compared to many others, but to me it will be the biggest piece of equipment I will have every owned). I thought I needed the mill first, but after ordering them I realized the lathe has so much more potential.  Although I am glad I got the mill first because it let me practice moving a big piece of equipment before getting a big awkward machine.


----------



## Just for fun

Nice,  I'm just a little jealous, OK more then just a little jealous!

One of these days it will be my turn.


----------



## Rodneyk

Just for fun said:


> Nice,  I'm just a little jealous, OK more then just a little jealous!
> 
> One of these days it will be my turn.


I understand the feeling, until recently I was afraid to order this equipment because of the wife not understanding why I needed it.  I am now getting close to retirement from the tech industry and decided I better come up with something to do once they kick me to the curb. Plus this keeps me out of my wife's hair for long periods of time.


----------



## Aukai

I started acquiring equipment 4 years prior to retiring, after I got out of commercial fishing. August will make 2 years retired from EMS, Sneaking into machining was easier to explain to my wife than, I'm going to take over(1/2 of) the garage, and make a large 5 figure investment, so I can play. Now she has the "wait, what, when did this happen" look.


----------



## Rhizome

Rodneyk said:


> [PM-1340GT lathe]...getting that beast installed (yes I know it is a small mill compared to many others, but to me it will be the biggest piece of equipment I will have every owned).


I don't know your shop situation.  Mine is my garage with an attic above.  I find a 2-ton engine hoist useful and have a growing collection of lifting straps, 2-4 tons shoulder eye bolts, D-ring and quick-link shackles, chains (various lengths), 1-ton over-head chain hoist, manual and electric winches, a small rigging manual that I bought at a used book store.  I also built a laminated 2x12, 12-foot long beam above the attic joists to spread out the weight when using the chain hoist for "lighter" loads.  While this is useful, it is limited by the location of the attic access hatch, so machine has to be placed in this location before lifting.  I find the rigging manual helpful and costs only a few bucks, which is money extremely well spent.  It is fun to apply Newtonian physics during these occasions.


----------



## Rodneyk

Just received an email from QMT/PM that my 1340GT is in there shop undergoing quality control prior to shipping.  I understand that mine is #3 on the list, so should be shipping relatively soon. Now I really need to clean the workshop to make room (again)


----------



## Christianstark

Just subscribing! Tapatalk keeps crashing on me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Christianstark

@Rodneyk this is the exact combo I am seriously considering. Will love hearing your impressions as you work with each. I have ordered the 833TV, and will be calling with a few questions on the 1340 tomorrow. I want to hear about the new 1440GS before I order.


----------



## Rodneyk

Christianstark said:


> @Rodneyk this is the exact combo I am seriously considering. Will love hearing your impressions as you work with each. I have ordered the 833TV, and will be calling with a few questions on the 1340 tomorrow. I want to hear about the new 1440GS before I order.


I was seriously considering the 1440GT and the 1440GS. Part of me is convinced that the Taiwan built machines should be better, but I have actually have no evidence on that besides hearsay and advertising from various companies. I will certainly post my experiences. It seems like there are quite a few people who purchase the same machines in concert (some have PMed me and even sent me photos of how they are setting up there machines.  The 1340 is going to be quite the project since I bought the 3 phase until and have been working with Mark Jacobs to build out a control system for it.  Definitely a lot of work on that before I will see any chips.

The 1340 is probabaly overkill for my current needs but I can imagine needing more and I cannot imagine what I would do to swap out one with another.  I am generally pretty handy, but unloading and installing the mill took a full day with 2 people and a few bits of help from my wife.  This is the heaviest thing I have ever had to move, and the 1340 is bigger still.  I am sure I could do it faster if I ever wanted to move it since half of the time was trying to figure out how to get it off the pallet, it require 3 stages because it was on a double pallet. 

The funny thing is that for my primary use I want to turn pretty small objects very precisely.


----------



## Christianstark

Rodneyk said:


> I was seriously considering the 1440GT and the 1440GS. Part of me is convinced that the Taiwan built machines should be better, but I have actually have no evidence on that besides hearsay and advertising from various companies. I will certainly post my experiences. It seems like there are quite a few people who purchase the same machines in concert (some have PMed me and even sent me photos of how they are setting up there machines.  The 1340 is going to be quite the project since I bought the 3 phase until and have been working with Mark Jacobs to build out a control system for it.  Definitely a lot of work on that before I will see any chips.



I’m considering the 3 phase version as well. Is a VFD control system complicated? Would you mind including another in the planning for this with Mark?


----------



## Rodneyk

Christianstark said:


> I’m considering the 3 phase version as well. Is a VFD control system complicated? Would you mind including another in the planning for this with Mark?


I will reply in a PM.


----------



## StevSmar

Aukai said:


> "wait, what, when did this happen" look.


I’m learning that look...LOL. I’m sure my wife has a mental inventory of all my tools that have excessive amount of chrome or volume.


----------



## Rodneyk

StevSmar said:


> I’m learning that look...LOL. I’m sure my wife has a mental inventory of all my tools that have excessive amount of chrome or volume.


I have been looking at getting these machines (or similar) for many years. I finally told my wife that I was going to pull the trigger and she just rolled her eyes in disbelief since I always seem to do a lot of research then decide it is too much money. Well this time I pulled the trigger and then explained that it was going to be a LOT more expensive than the initial investment. 

So how about a few pics: 
The first is a close up of some chips in mild steel I have been making.
The second is my first functional part. This is a bracket to home the Z axis power feed endstop over the DRO sensor since they need to mount in a similar place. Using this I don't need to drill any new holes in the machine as I will reuse the DRO holes.

Sorry about the quality of the finish (The photos make stuff stand out the is barely visible on the part). I have not yet trammed the machine which may be part of the issue. I also had not received my facing mill at this point, so all facing was done with a 1/2" end mill.  This was cut from 1.5" square bar of Mild Steel. 

The bottom holes were milled so I could have some up/down adjustment in case I missed the mark on the hole. The top holes were drilled and tapped. 

This is actually the second go at the bracket. The first one was looking very good until I realized that the power feed switch bracket is larger than the DRO bracket. ARGH Measure Once Cut Twice.  And I was being so careful too... The second one (pictured here) took a lot less time because I let the mill take larger depth cuts, and I slowed down the RPM to a better speed.


----------



## Rodneyk

Putting some pieces together...

The bracket installed over the DRO Bracket.  When installing this I made a discovery that there are two washers UNDER the DRO as a shim on the head.





This is the endstop switch mounted (loosely) on the bracket.





This is the endstop bar which has the settable positions. 
I will need to mount this on a couple of blocks to make up for the DRO also. but those can be simple blocks.


----------



## StevSmar

Rodneyk said:


> I have been looking at getting these machines (or similar) for many years. I finally told my wife that I was going to pull the trigger and she just rolled her eyes in disbelief since I always seem to do a lot of research then decide it is too much money. Well this time I pulled the trigger and then explained that it was going to be a LOT more expensive than the initial investment.


I told my wife I have four expensive tools to purchase before I retire... I’ve purchase two, one of which is a 12x24” lathe. When it showed up the comment from my wife was something like “normal people don’t have tools like this in their basement”- LOL.
(I’ll start up a separate thread about it once it makes it into the basement)


----------



## fursphere

StevSmar said:


> I told my wife I have four expensive tools to purchase before I retire... I’ve purchase two, one of which is a 12x24” lathe. When it showed up the comment from my wife was something like “normal people don’t have tools like this in their basement”- LOL.
> (I’ll start up a separate thread about it once it makes it into the basement)


Define "Normal people"


----------



## Aukai

That would be the ones who can't fix anything, and come to you, cuz you got a b i t c h n' set of tools


----------



## Rodneyk

Aukai said:


> That would be the ones who can't fix anything, and come to you, cuz you got a b i t c h n' set of tools


I have a neighbor who comes to me every time something breaks.  So far in the last few months I have fixed his riding lawn mower, Instapot cooker, Backup power generator, light switch, Bath tub sealant, and even installed a new toilet for him. And now I with the lathe and mill I will be able to fix all sorts of stuff I couldn't before...  Hmmm, maybe it is not so good that the neighbors know I can fix stuff...


----------



## Rodneyk

Well the endstop bracket is finally mounted with parts I milled myself.  I was able to reuse the part the I oopsed on for the bottom bracket.





	

		
			
		

		
	
 The bracket I built is under the align bracket.





This is the bracket that holds the top of the endstop behind the scales for the DRO






Entire endstop mounted.


I started to do the Z power feed install (Next step) today when I realized that I cannot find the Roll Pins and Shaft Key that are required. Also I don't have a drill bit (either #21 or 4mm) that was specified for drilling the shaft extension. After much searching I was able to locate the roll pins, not not the shaft key (3mmx15mm) so I have to place that on hold until I can get a set of keys and the drill bit. Pretty sure none of my "titanium bits" will scratch the tool steel so I ordered a solid carbide bit at 4mm.

On the lathe side of things there was a delay in shipping the lathes last week due to a problem found in QC. The problem was related to the size of the drive belts and has been addressed. The machine should ship early this week.


----------



## Rodneyk

The PM1340GT is in the mail as of this afternoon.  Should be delivered in about a next week if I am lucky. 
This weekend will be spent prepping the landing zone...


----------



## Rodneyk

The carbide 4mm drill bit arrived, oddly it measured 6mm in diameter, so I had to return it and order another from another place.


----------



## davidpbest

_*Here is a link*_ to your shaft keys.  

_*Roll pins*._

_*Stub-length 4mm carbide drill bit* _for hardened steel.

McMaster has quick and reasonably priced shipping.  Hope this helps.


----------



## Rodneyk

davidpbest said:


> _*Here is a link*_ to your shaft keys.
> 
> _*Roll pins*._
> 
> _*Stub-length 4mm carbide drill bit* _for hardened steel.
> 
> McMaster has quick and reasonably priced shipping.  Hope this helps.


Thanks. Because I was trying to get this part finshed before the lathe arrives I caved in and ordered a kit of keys from Amazon, will need to grind the 16mm ones down to 15mm (actually the 16mm might fit too), the key required in this case is a 3x15.

I also got a #21 bit too, the it was not a cheap one and has specs that look, if it cannot handle the job I will get the McMasters one, it only needs to drill 2 holes. As a bonus I got a 6mm bit for free (because they shipped the wrong size bit and are not making me return it). The plan is to use plenty of cutting fluid and to not over stress the bit.

Luckily I have the roll pins that came in the kit.


The one question I am wondering it if I should drill all the way through the extendeder. The outer sleeve currently has a single hole (in two places). If I  ever need to remove the pin it would be better to drill the hole all the way through the outer sleeve (and the extension shaft).  That also makes it so I can verify that the hole it concentric (although a little late to fix it if I mess up) by rotating the shaft by 180 degrees and seeing if the holes line up.  I am currently set up to drill the hole in the mill, Sleeve is in the vise with a v block. I used an edge finder and dro to get mill to the center of the sleeve. Inserted a bit in the open hole and aligned the mill to the bit. Installed the bit in the chuck and verified that the bit goes smoothly into the hole in the sleeve.  Once the first hole it drilled I can place a rolepin in (or a drillbit while I position the next hole which is approximately 90 degrees from the first (the instructions make a big deal about NOT assuming that it is 90 and drill the shaft with an index tool.  I think my way will be sufficient.  Realistically speaking this is really just holding the two parts of the extended shaft together and not expected to take much force. As long as the part is not allowing uncontrolled rotation I should be good.


----------



## kb58

Rodneyk said:


> ... This is the heaviest thing I have ever had to move...


Our garage has a slight slope (as most do) to prevent rain water intrusion. When I moving my newly-received 1500-lb mill around on rollers, at one point it was pointed at the door. I remember thinking, "okay, stop now... stop... STOP!" Something really heavy with little friction can be pretty intimidated.


----------



## davidpbest

Rodneyk said:


> Thanks. Because I was trying to get this part finshed before the lathe arrives I caved in and ordered a kit of keys from Amazon, will need to grind the 16mm ones down to 15mm (actually the 16mm might fit too), the key required in this case is a 3x15.
> 
> I also got a #21 bit too, the it was not a cheap one and has specs that look, if it cannot handle the job I will get the McMasters one, it only needs to drill 2 holes. As a bonus I got a 6mm bit for free (because they shipped the wrong size bit and are not making me return it). The plan is to use plenty of cutting fluid and to not over stress the bit.
> 
> Luckily I have the roll pins that came in the kit.
> 
> 
> The one question I am wondering it if I should drill all the way through the extendeder. The outer sleeve currently has a single hole (in two places). If I  ever need to remove the pin it would be better to drill the hole all the way through the outer sleeve (and the extension shaft).  That also makes it so I can verify that the hole it concentric (although a little late to fix it if I mess up) by rotating the shaft by 180 degrees and seeing if the holes line up.  I am currently set up to drill the hole in the mill, Sleeve is in the vise with a v block. I used an edge finder and dro to get mill to the center of the sleeve. Inserted a bit in the open hole and aligned the mill to the bit. Installed the bit in the chuck and verified that the bit goes smoothly into the hole in the sleeve.  Once the first hole it drilled I can place a rolepin in (or a drillbit while I position the next hole which is approximately 90 degrees from the first (the instructions make a big deal about NOT assuming that it is 90 and drill the shaft with an index tool.  I think my way will be sufficient.  Realistically speaking this is really just holding the two parts of the extended shaft together and not expected to take much force. As long as the part is not allowing uncontrolled rotation I should be good.


Some photos might help.  If the shaft you’re trying to drill is round and hardened, you will probably need to spot-drill first, otherwise your 4mm carbide drill bit will wander and probably snap in two.  Do you have a carbide center drill?  Something *like this*?


----------



## Rodneyk

davidpbest said:


> Some photos might help.  If the shaft you’re trying to drill is round and hardened, you will probably need to spot-drill first, otherwise your 4mm carbide drill bit will wander and probably snap in two.  Do you have a carbide center drill?  Something *like this*?


I have a cobalt center drill.  Since there is one hole in the sleeve that is 4mm I am thinking that it should act to keep the drill in line, but I will hit it with the center drill too.  If the cobalt does not scratch it I will order the carbide. I know that it handle mild steel like a hot knife through butter, but never tried it on anything harder yet. 

Shown here is the disassembled shaft and sleeve. the circled part needs the hole to match the sleeve (pointed to by the arrow)
The second pic shows the assembled shaft (before drilling) Ignore the bit in the photo I was just using that to test the hole alignment while I waited for the real bit to arrive.


----------



## Rodneyk

kb58 said:


> Our garage has a slight slope (as most do) to prevent rain water intrusion. When I moving my newly-received 1500-lb mill around on rollers, at one point it was pointed at the door. I remember thinking, "okay, stop now... stop... STOP!" Something really heavy with little friction can be pretty intimidated.


I am pretty lucky that my slab was re-poured after a plane hit my home a few year back. From what I can tell it is fairly level in the garage, there is a very slight slope in the driveway away from the house though, and the driveway slope towards the house until about 6 feet to the house, so the delivery guy has mostly a downward hill to get to the house.

Moving the mill was intimidating, and the lathe is bigger and more awkwardly shaped, I plan to take my time and call a friend or two to help.


----------



## Rodneyk

This is probabaly not interesting to most people but being a new person at this I am sharing what I did. It is over kill and most experiences machinist will probabaly get a chuckle out of it.

So today I drilled the holes as follows:
Set sleeve (side of shaft without the gear) in the vice with a v block.
Used a center finder on the shaft to zero out the DRO on one side.
Used Center finder on the other side of the shaft then used the 1/2 DRO function.
Moved to 0 on the y axis. verified it was Zero visually (point of a center drill was at highest spot).
First sleeve hole (it is only on one side of sleeve) to under center point with #21 bit in the chuck.
Loosened the vise to allow me to rotate sleeve until the bit would easily go thru sleeve to un drilled other side using quill
locked everything down and made sure the drill could move without binding, then moved drill out of the way (up).
Aligned the shaft (half with the gear) so that the keyway is located in the same orientation on the shaft as the sleeve. 
I don't believe this is necessary at all since the keyway on the shaft is not used and the orientation does not look important.
Clamped the shaft to the sleeve (end to end) lightly to reduce any chance of shifting, and to make sure the shaft was completely seated.
Put a 3mm Cobalt Center drill in the chuck (the next size I have was 4.5mm and the hole needs to be 4mm in the end)
Verified it would be drilling in the middle of the existing hole. Crossed my fingers that I could drill the shaft steel.
Applied 2 drops of cutting fluid in the hole.
Lowered the head to just above the hole, then made contact using slight pressure with the quill, immediately saw chips with barely any pressure. Used the Z axis to control depth with slight pressure on the quill to reduce any potential bounce.
Once the hole was clearly started I switched out for the #21 carbide bit using the same Z axis for depth and pressure on the quill to reduce bounce.
As I got close to the full depth I slowed down and gently pushed through to the other side of the sleeve.
Verified that I could rotate the shaft 180 and still get the drill bit through (woot it is symmetric).
Inserted roll pin, 
Repeated required steps for the perpendicular hole.
made roll pins as flush as I could and sanded the tiny burrs out of existence.

The next step in the build require me to disassemble the Z axis handle, glad I was able to do this on the mill before doing that (in the instuctions they tell you to disassemble the Z before this, and say to to this on a drill press) because my drill press is not nearly as nice or accurate as the mill.


----------



## Rodneyk

Opps Should NOT have put the roll pins in first, the shaft needed to go through the collar before inserting, Sigh so I had the fun of removing them and following the step correctlyh.

The next issue, the screws for step 12 of the process are not long enough (it says to reuse the original screws), but the replacement collar is much thicker and the counter syncs are not deep enough.  Since the mill is now in pieces, and once you install the shaft in the collar you cannot revert (without a large effort and more parts) I will need to get longer screws  Personally that is a better option than trying to machine an already machined part.  I sent a message to PM to see what they say, but for now I am stuck until new screws arrive in a day.


----------



## kb58

This is a great thread... if it can be kept on-topic... please.


----------



## Rodneyk

kb58 said:


> This is a great thread... if it can be kept on-topic... please.


Thanks, the thread was basically my experience starting to become a hobby machinist, I think a few diversions  are to be expected.


----------



## Just for fun

Rodneyk said:


> From what I can tell it is fairly level in the garage, there is a very slight slope in the driveway away from the house though, and the driveway slope towards the house until about 6 feet to the house, so the delivery guy has mostly a downward hill to get to the house.
> 
> Moving the mill was intimidating, and the lathe is bigger and more awkwardly shaped, I plan to take my time and call a friend or two to help.





Rodneyk said:


> *I am pretty lucky that my slab was re-poured after a plane hit my home a few year back.* From what I can tell it is fairly level in the garage, there is a very slight slope in the driveway away from the house though, and the driveway slope towards the house until about 6 feet to the house, so the delivery guy has mostly a downward hill to get to the house.
> 
> Moving the mill was intimidating, and the lathe is bigger and more awkwardly shaped, I plan to take my time and call a friend or two to help.



That doesn't happen everyday!   

I just did a Google search, unless it happened more then once.  Your lucky you or your family didn't didn't get hurt or killed. 

I enjoy your thread, keep up the good work.   Looking forward to seeing your lathe.


----------



## Rodneyk

Just for fun said:


> That doesn't happen everyday!
> 
> I just did a Google search, unless it happened more then once.  Your lucky you or your family didn't didn't get hurt or killed.
> 
> I enjoy your thread, keep up the good work.   Looking forward to seeing your lathe.


Lucky indeed, my son was less than 10 feet from the point of impact playing games with a female friend.  The pilot died in the crash, and his passenger survived with a broken spin in multiple places and a few other broken bones.  He is doing well now.

The screws arrived for the Power Feed. The smallest ones were too long  but that is easy to solve on the grinder...

Spent about an hour to finish installing the power feed and to test it.  Might need tweaking later but currently seems to run smoothly and stops when it encounters the end stops as it should.

The lathe was last scene departing Chicago IL. I was suppose to spend today prepping for its arrival, but got distracted inspecting beehives and trying to prevent them from swarming  (yet another hobby that takes a lot of time).


----------



## kb58

Rodneyk said:


> Thanks, the thread was basically my experience starting to become a hobby machinist, I think a few diversions  are to be expected.


Crap, my bad, I thought that this was the long thread about retiring, which is also here. Sorry, and carry on, sir.


----------



## Rodneyk

kb58 said:


> Crap, my bad, I thought that this was the long thread about retiring, which is also here. Sorry, and carry on, sir.


LOL, well it is the goal to retire and play with machines that if used wrong can maim or kill you, and if used right can make retirement rather entertaining.

Seriously which topic are you most interested in because I can try and keep to topic that people want to read.


----------



## Rodneyk

Update: Delivery of a PM1340GT occurred today. The poor driver almost could not get it off the truck (1500 lbs shipment).  

I uncrated the machine and cleaned up according to the instructions, oiled it, and now I need to wait until a friend will come over to help me move it from the palette to the stand. Hopefully Saturday night.





















Hmm, wrong way around...


----------



## Just for fun

Very nice.... I'm so jealous!


----------



## Christianstark

Looks well packaged and got there safe and sound.

Awesome!


----------



## Rodneyk

Christianstark said:


> Looks well packaged and got there safe and sound.
> 
> Awesome!


I should have taken more photos unpacking. There was damage done to the box on the top (the DRO) by a shipping strap friction for 3000 miles, but no damage to the contents. The stand had minor damage of the logo sticker (again from friction). So far everything else appears good. On part of the lower pallet had a broken crossbeam which surprized me because it was on the lighter side. That could have been cause by loading for all I know, but since it is on a double palette I am pretty sure the machine did not even notice. 
So in other words it made the trip in fantastic condition.


----------



## Jake P

Rodneyk said:


> I should have taken more photos unpacking. There was damage done to the box on the top (the DRO) by a shipping strap friction for 3000 miles, but no damage to the contents. The stand had minor damage of the logo sticker (again from friction). So far everything else appears good. On part of the lower pallet had a broken crossbeam which surprized me because it was on the lighter side. That could have been cause by loading for all I know, but since it is on a double palette I am pretty sure the machine did not even notice.
> So in other words it made the trip in fantastic condition.


Congratulations!  You are about 3 months ahead of me. 
My 1340GT is scheduled to arrive in PA early to mid July. 
I’m about 7-8 hours drive short of you from PA, how long did it take for the shipment to go from PA to WA?

Edit:  I went back through this thread and found where you stated that it shipped on the 28th of April, so only 8 days or so.


----------



## Aukai

You will love the machine. I had belt interference inside the bottom edge of the cover when the belt stretched, and I dropped the motor down to tighten the tension. It was probably interfering, or close to it when the belt was new, so check that. The bolt holes to align the cover where snug, and I opened them up a tad also.


----------



## Christianstark

Rodneyk said:


> I should have taken more photos unpacking. There was damage done to the box on the top (the DRO) by a shipping strap friction for 3000 miles, but no damage to the contents. The stand had minor damage of the logo sticker (again from friction). So far everything else appears good. On part of the lower pallet had a broken crossbeam which surprized me because it was on the lighter side. That could have been cause by loading for all I know, but since it is on a double palette I am pretty sure the machine did not even notice.
> So in other words it made the trip in fantastic condition.



Let me know how the break on period goes, and what you order in terms of a belt. I’d like to have a belt on hand when mine arrives to use when the delivery belt needs replacing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rodneyk

Christianstark said:


> Let me know how the break on period goes, and what you order in terms of a belt. I’d like to have a belt on hand when mine arrives to use when the delivery belt needs replacing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


QMT pulled the belts off the lathe prior to sending the lathe and put new ones to replace them on top of the lathe (apparently the factory belts were not correct.  I can let you know what those are later as I had a busy evening putting the lathe up on the stand with a friend.  

Here is my shaggy dog story of moving the lathe from the palette to the stand. Before starting I had assembled and leveled the table (which was probabaly pointless since this kind of got crazy... Huge amount of thinking and preparing before starting the process, but it did not go quite as planned.

The mounting went something crazy like this: Removing the bolts that held the lathe to the palette was tough, in hind sight you could just remove the nut and lift with the hoist, but I wanted to know how it was going to shift so I wanted to remove the bolts and they are hard to access. Luckily I am skinny and was able to get me arms under there. One bolt was snugged up to the center brace so I had to remove is with a standard wrench 1/4 at a time (a ratchet would not fit).

The hoist legs were too narrow to get around pallet, much worse than the PM833T situation where I was able to put the hoist on blocks and progressively remove the layers of palettes.  After a lot of thinking I decided the use a jigsaw to cut the bottom palette in a way that allowed me to put the hoist legs under the machine and lift.    After removing the palettes the next mess was a near disaster because we tried to rotate the lathe 180 on the hoist because it was delivered 180 degrees rotated from what I needed (cannot see lathe until you remove the crate  at all, and the space was tight  in the garage with an engine hoist.  The result was the the lathe started to shift lower the headstock and nearly got out of control.  It got so out of balance that some of the Gear stock out leaked out (it is in an open pan) which made thing worse.  we quickly threw some 4x6 blocks under and set it down before thing got REALLY bad, talk about an adrenaline rush, and I was able to lower the lathe gently giving a little time for thought.  

I removed chuck to lighten the headstock (duh I should have done that initially but somethings you just gotta learn the hard way). Now we were able to set the hoist up in front to the machine which would make it easier to get it on the stand (I thought). But the stand center only has a 2" gap so the hoist legs could not go under it. Solution was to put the stand up on 4x6 blocks, lower the lathe enough to get a bolt in place then lower it more to get the opposing bolt in place (lightly). Once they were all lined up we completely lowered the machine on to the stand. Then we were able to raise one side just enough to pull the 4x6 boards out and lower that side onto the feet. Then the other side was lowered with a lot of care and gently touches on the hoist.  Oil cleanup on isle 2 please.  I stopped at this point for the evening.

BTW I know there is still some areas with tourmaline visible in the picture. It was hard to see everything while it was on the palette, but the instructions said clean before doing anything so I did my best.

Before I can do anything more I will need to get my VFD set up because this is a 3Phase motor and the residence is not 3 phase.


----------



## Rodneyk

Jake P said:


> Congratulations!  You are about 3 months ahead of me.
> My 1340GT is scheduled to arrive in PA early to mid July.
> I’m about 7-8 hours drive short of you from PA, how long did it take for the shipment to go from PA to WA?
> 
> Edit:  I went back through this thread and found where you stated that it shipped on the 28th of April, so only 8 days or so.


Yes it took 7 days to get to Seattle and then the company scheduled the delivery for the next day for both the lathe and the mill.


----------



## jwmelvin

Rodneyk said:


> Here is my shaggy dog story of moving the lathe from the palette to the stand.



Congrats on getting it in place, despite the excitement; those moments can be a little scary.


----------



## Flyinfool

Looking good. Glad you made it with no real mishaps. If nothing is broken and no one got hurt it was a good day.

For my lathe it came with a lifting eye installed in the bed that was tall enough to be above the center of gravity. It was a simple matter of attaching the hook of my hoist to that eye and the lathe hung perfectly level as delivered. To put it on the stand I came in from the head stock end so that the hoist legs could go around the front and back of stand instead of straight on where the lift legs need to fit under the stand. It made for a no drama install / assembly.


----------



## Aukai

I forgot to add that the mounting bolts, and the feet of the head, and tail stock should have sealer added to keep liquids from getting into the cabinets. I spilled some oil from the catch pan, and found it went into the cabinet.


----------



## Rodneyk

Yesterday and today were spent building the VFD box and installing the Mark Jacobs control system.

This is what the lathe looked like before adding the new control panel for reference:






Here is the lathe with the Mark Jacobs custom control system:







Just a quick test of the control system (yes I had just refilled the oil and ha not put the cap back on yet, plus it was not a sterile environment (i.e. tools on top of the lathe, wish I could say that was for some reason like testing vibrations but it wasn't) 
I still need to level the lathe and tighten and seal the bolts too.


----------



## Rodneyk

I was asked top post pictures of all the components of the Jacobs system what he included and what I had to supply. Since shipping all the components would add too much cost or components that depended on other things like the size of cables)

So here goes:

First here is the completed VFD BOX.
Mr. Jacobs provided the master switch, Breakers, Fuse Box, 24v power supply, mounting brackets, Cables to Motor, Cables to all other systems
I supplied the Cabinet, VFD, Breaking Resistor. 






Control board:
Mr. Jacobs provided everything shown.






Front panel replacement:
Mr. Jacobs provided everything completely built and ready for install with all cable attached
	

		
			
		

		
	






Proximity Stop : 
I purchased the endstop from QMT/PM and had them ship it to Mr. Jacobs. He provided and assembled everything else.


----------



## Just for fun

Thanks for sharing, it looks like with the help of Mr Jacobs going with VFD is pretty cut and dry!


----------



## Rodneyk

Just for fun said:


> Thanks for sharing, it looks like with the help of Mr Jacobs going with VFD is pretty cut and dry!


Absolutely, He has pretty much documented his system on this forum in various places, but I would highly recommend using the system that he builds rather than trying to put it together by yourself.  After installing the system I am certain that I could put one together, but before seeing his system I would have been lost.  He has laid out the system quite elegantly and provides pretty awesome installation instructions (almost as many pages as the lathes operation manual) including everything you need to get the lathe running.  Building the cabinet took me about 4-6 hours (I was going REALLY slow since this is my first time working with 220v circuits), and installing the system took me a couple hours including programming the VFD parameters (which is included in the PDF Mr. Jacobs provided).

The next project will be to install the DRO. DROPros has a set of youtube videos that is very detailed so I think that will go well.


----------



## Rodneyk

I started on the DRO installation. Came across the first issue which is that the cross slide scale will cover the cross slide locking screw 
The instruction included were not very good, and the video from DRO Pros (which is very useful) avoided that topic.  I did not want to loose the locking functionality so I emailed QMT/PM to see what the options were.  They sent me a PDF that showed more details on the installation with a couple of "options". The solution that looked least invasive was to build a shim to hold the scales and reader head far enough away from the slide body that I could get a wrench in to the slot and lock using a hex bolt.

First order of operation was to produce a bolt that fit. I had on the right size but the wrong length. I cut it down to size and removed the thread "shoulder" near the head so it would be able to screw in closer to the body. Then I shaved a few thou off the head to make it have a lower profile.

After that I checked my wrenches and determined that 8mm of space would be enough, so to error on the safer side I decided to go with a 10mm thick shim.  I would need to add the same height to the scales and the reader head, so I decided to start with a single bar of mild steel and square it, then face it down to 10mm thick and the correct width (28mm) to fit the scale (vertically) and the reader (horizontally).  Once the piece was sized I cut 3 pieces (two for the scales at 23mm and one for the reader at 62mm) with my fancy power band saw (okay it is an inexpensive dewalt hand held unit but it does the job). From there I faced the ends and brought them to final size (21mm and 60mm).  Then I milled a slot on the scale risers. Later today I will mill the slots for the reader riser.  

I will most likely need to find some longer screws.  Alternatively I could have mounted the risers and tapped them for the current screws, but I was thinking that I wanted the screw to touch the lathe rather than just screwing in to the riser. This way the riser is just a shim and not integral to the setup beyond adding distance.


----------



## Aukai

Did they show the aluminum locking head from the other side like Mark, and David have done?
I found it....








						Pm1340gt Cross Slide Lock Mod For Dro Machines
					

One of the issues when adding a DRO scale to the cross slide is that it often blocks the ability to use the lock. On the PM1340GT, they use a 6mm Allen screw on the right side of the cross slide which is completely inaccessible with the mounted DRO scale. I considered various options, but I...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


----------



## Rodneyk

Aukai said:


> Did they show the aluminum locking head from the other side like Mark, and David have done?
> I found it....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pm1340gt Cross Slide Lock Mod For Dro Machines
> 
> 
> One of the issues when adding a DRO scale to the cross slide is that it often blocks the ability to use the lock. On the PM1340GT, they use a 6mm Allen screw on the right side of the cross slide which is completely inaccessible with the mounted DRO scale. I considered various options, but I...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hobby-machinist.com


This was not one of the options shown.  I think because it makes using the steady rest harder. I think the most I am adding has less overall impact than the mod in the above post.  I will post pictures when I get finished, but since the distance is pretty short I think the risers will be ok. I also like the fact that the solution I am using does not put my hand closer to the chuck 

Although now that I look at that solution I guess it does not really require any modification to the lathe (no hole drilling to put it on). That is slick. I am guessing the the lock is not are secure as a screw into the ways, but also will not put dings in the ways like I imaging too much force on the screw will do... Lots to think about. The beauty of the riser is that later if I want I can just remove them and move to using something else.


----------



## davidpbest

I mounted my cross slide scale on the tailstock side, and positioned the scale for an access port to the cross slide locking bolt.   The bracket is a piece of 1/4" thick aluminum angle with a window cut into it.  Full details _*are here*_.







Stainless sliding cover.


----------



## cday2021

Rodneyk said:


> This was not one of the options shown.  I think because it makes using the steady rest harder. I think the most I am adding has less overall impact than the mod in the above post.  I will post pictures when I get finished, but since the distance is pretty short I think the risers will be ok. I also like the fact that the solution I am using does not put my hand closer to the chuck
> 
> Although now that I look at that solution I guess it does not really require any modification to the lathe (no hole drilling to put it on). That is slick. I am guessing the the lock is not are secure as a screw into the ways, but also will not put dings in the ways like I imaging too much force on the screw will do... Lots to think about. The beauty of the riser is that later if I want I can just remove them and move to using something else.


I followed what Mark did on my lathe. Besides locking the slide in place I’ll actually use it to put more drag on the slide so I can fine adjust a little easier. It locks the slide extremely well. I can’t imagine the set screw would do any better.


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## Rodneyk

Yesterday I was able to put the DRO on the Cross Slide.  I still need to put the cover on, and route the cable (and adjust the entire set up down since as it sits there is not enough room for the cover plate).  It works! 

It is  taking longer than expected because I had planned on getting the Lathe in the winter but missed the boat so it was delayed to spring.  I am a beekeeper (hobby) and in the spring that takes a lot more time...


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## Rodneyk

Whew... I finally finished installing the DRO on the lathe.  It would have been nice to have a second set of hands at least to remove and install the splash guard, but I was able to manage myself with only a limited number of curse words and one minor cut on my finger (which happened opening a plastic bag with my newly sharpened pocket knife .

So my take a ways:

1) It was not as hard as I thought it would be.
2) Watching the DRO Pros videos really helped, the documentation provided really sucks even though it looks like they tried to make it good. I think the issue is that the guys who wrote it need to watch someone who has never installed one do it with their doc, and fill in the blanks when the person says WTF now. 
3) Drilling and tapping is scary to do on a brand new piece of equipment.
4) I broke one pilot drill in the process, cheap drill.
5) I broke one .25" endmill when I was shortening the debris guard for the long scale.  It was going so well but I accidentally bump the feed rate when I heard a vibration.  My mill it really too small to mill that part so I was amazed how well it did.  Also note the endmill was one I got on eBay as used endmills by the pound.  And I have been using them to cut mild steel.  The price was perfect for me to get a bunch of play endmills that I would not be upset if I broke.  
6) There is not a great place to mount the head with the given bracket on the 1340GT, I put it on the side of the electronic cabinet. DRO Pros example lathe has a place to mount on the front of that box.  It is still very visible in within reach. Later I might try an move it.
7) The back of the ways bulge slightly so in mounting the long scales I used the grub screws aggressively to get the scale clear of the bulge. I took me longer to get the scale flat than just about any other operation.
8) On the back of the cross slide I found a set of predrilled holes that almost perfectly matched the bracket for the long side reader. I decided to use those rather than drilling new holes, but it meant I needed to mill the slots a tiny wider to get a good fit.  Those holes might be used for some other attachment, but for now it is going to be my DRO reader.

I probabaly should have taken some pics but I forgot.

Next step, cleaning up the mess I made, then re checking the level


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## Rodneyk

Oh and I ordered a cheap Tach on ebay as was noted in some other posts.  I guess I still have a bot of drilling and tapping to do...


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## Rodneyk

Installed the Tach.


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## Rodneyk

I know this will not be too exciting to most of you, but it is very exciting to me.  Today I successfully cut a 20tpi thread on a rod.  This does not fit anything, is not to spec, is pretty useless since it is not a standard size, but it is my first time single point cutting a thread,






I used a few steps:

1) faced the end of the rod
2) turned down the rod by the smallest amount possible and
3) cut a way a small landing zone for the thread to stop (did not cut deep enough but at least I did not break the insert)
4) Chamfered the end to give is a softer lead in
5) Slowly cut the thread using 2 techniques (both I set the cross slide to a Zero height to start and used the compound for depth of cut)
  a) I used the half nut (Engaging and releasing) for part of the thread to make sure I understood getting back on the thread after moving the carriage.
  b) I used the half nut permanently engaged for the second part.

In both cased I set the proximity stop to stop when the tool reached the landing zone.

The one major discovery is that the compound scale is 90 degrees out of phase so to get a 29.5degree cut I needed to set it to 60.5 degrees.


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## Just for fun

Cool, Congrats on your first thread.


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## StevSmar

davidpbest said:


> That longer splined end of the spindle looks like a much better solution to me than what I have seen in other versions of the 833.  That said, the interference of the drawbar hex corners with the spline wrench would drive me crazy.  Instead of that spline wrench, you might find that a certain size 12-point box-end wrench will fit the splines and still give clearance past the hex-head.
> 
> If you plan on implementing a power drawbar, you might live with it until the PDB project pops to the top of the list.  If you go for the Maxi Torque-Rite PDB, it comes with a custom new drawbar to fit your machine.
> 
> But instead of beavering off the corners of the hex cap, I would be inclined to bring the entire hex-head down in size by milling off all six sides in an ER40 Hex collet block.  Kinda hard to do without a second drawbar, but you can buy replacement drawbars easy enough - or make your own. You have to be precise in picking a replacement drawbar on length, but the R8 end is threaded 7/16-20.  _*Here*_ are a few, or PM may have one specific to the 833.
> 
> This is another alternative - used in place of the spline wrench.  I made a slightly more robust version of this for my RF-45.  They are available on eBay _*here*_. It's basically a spring-loaded plunger that you push on to engage with one of the splines and it locks the spindle. When you let go, it springs back automatically. Less likely you'll forget and leave a spline wrench on the spindle with this kind of setup and it's easily installed and works with existing unmodified drawbar.
> 
> View attachment 360634


That looks really interesting.


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## StevSmar

Rodneyk said:


> I am pretty lucky that my slab was re-poured after a plane hit my home a few year back.


I want a new garage slab. I threw a wood plane at the front of the house and called the insurance company and left a detailed message. So far they haven’t called back…

(Sorry, couldn’t help myself)

That’s so unusual, sad that the pilot was killed and his nephew badly injured. It was a beautiful plane too.


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## Rodneyk

It has been a while since I posted. Both machines are set up and operating and I am now learning a few things. Currently I am working on a mod to my honey extractor to double the speed (it is a little too slow so I am making mods that move the motor and allow me to add pulleys or gears to increase the ratio.  The motor is plenty strong enough).

  Here are a couple of pics things I have been doing to learn to use the machines:











And I fixed the bathtub which has been missing the knob for a long time...


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## Cletus

...._."And I fixed the bathtub which has been missing the knob for a long time..."_
Very important to keep the "points-score" up with the boss, so we can continue to buy and play with our toys! ......Good job!


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## Rodneyk

Cletus said:


> ...._."And I fixed the bathtub which has been missing the knob for a long time..."_
> Very important to keep the "points-score" up with the boss, so we can continue to buy and play with our toys! ......Good job!


Yes the boss was very pissy about me not fixing this earlier, but it is a 20 year old tub and nothing fit and looked okay.  My first attempt had the hole hidden in the part, but it was WAY too big and looked silly. When I reduced the size of the part I forgot how deep I cut the threads. Oops, well I am learning right...


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## Jake P

Rodneyk said:


> And I fixed the bathtub which has been missing the knob for a long time...


These are those multitudes of little jobs that we will find over the years that make us smile to have these machines.

It's like my little tractor.  There are so many things that I use it for that in and of themselves could never justify the expense, but once you have it then so many options open up.


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## Rodneyk

Had my first truly exciting event happen last night while parting off a pulley that I made.  It was going quite smoothly when all of the sudden the parting tool (a Shars insert tool with a gt2 insert) bit into the work and pulled it work out of the jaws (yes I did not have enough in the jaw but I had already cut several deep groove in the part to this point.  Anyway is made a very loud noise as the lath had no intention of even slowing down. The tool holder was mangled and the part went boom.  There was a ding in the part, but I was able to use my bandsaw to make short work of parting it, then used the mill to finish the parted side prettier.

No damage to the Lathe... Lessons learned:

1) Parting probably needs more lube than I was using.
2) The lathe has WAY more power than the tools. I was even using a fairly slow RPM under 150 and it did not even think of slowing down.
3) Grip parts better. I was trying to use the last scrap of a mild steel round.
4) I had been using Stainless for the other pulley and parted that just fine, actually even a deeper part so I thought I was getting the hang of it.
5) Parting tools are easy to destroy and not cheap.

Have a favorite Parting tool? Feel free to suggest.


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## davidpbest

Been there, done that.  I'm not a fan of the GT type parting inserts.  I much prefer a parting tool that has a screw-down clamp to hold the insert.  One inexpensive version is called out toward the end of the attached.  There are others by SECO, Kennametal, and Sandvik that I prefer, but we're talking "investment grade" with those.  If you want specific suggestions, DM me.


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## Cletus

".....parting is such sweet sorrow!" 
Sorry, I could not resist!


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## ericc

The thing you have to be careful about is that the lathe has the power to destroy itself if the geometry is wrong.  Even the lowly Craftsman 109.  That is the nature of the tool.  One would think that the part will fail first.  Not true.  It depends on the geometry of the chip forming operation.  If enough flex in the works occurs, the tool can dig in and create an impossibly thick chip that could conceivably be stronger than the tool holder or even the headstock.


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## Rodneyk

Cletus said:


> ".....parting is such sweet sorrow!"
> Sorry, I could not resist!


I almost put that in my post, I guess great minds think alike


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## xr650rRider

There was another thread on Parting tools a while back. I bough one for GTN-3 inserts and that retrofit style in an Aloris #7 holder is by far, the best one I've used.


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## Rodneyk

xr650rRider said:


> There was another thread on Parting tools a while back. I bough one for GTN-3 inserts and that retrofit style in an Aloris #7 holder is by far, the best one I've used.


I was using the GTN-2 version of the Shars Retrofit tool 11/16".  Was working well until this incident, and when it failed it did so spectacularly.  I have now ordered a Aloris #71 holder and a few options that use GTN-3 inserts.  I am betting that those are a little more rigid than the GTN-2 versions. I may have also mounted the tool too far out, heck I am still learning, mistakes will happen.


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## Rodneyk

One of my other hobbies is Beekeeping. As part of that hobby I bought a CHEAP honey extractor (which is basically an centrifuge) powered by a servo motor.  The product worked, but spins so slowly that it takes a very long time to do the job.  I tried to adjust the timing on the servo, but the circuit is pretty much maxed out from the factory. The servo is geared down internally before coupled to the centrifuge shaft in a way that makes it difficult to try and use the servo in a direct drive mode.  So I thought I would try and do something a little different. I machined a few part:

1) a shaft extender 
2) a couple of pulley at a 2:1 ratio
3) an adaptor to hold a bearing for the new extended shaft.
4) a bracket to hold the servo offset from the original position,
This coupled with a drive belt results is a centrifuge that spins a bit faster. 
Soon I will get to try it with some frames of honey.

All of the parts except the motor bracked were made from Stainless steel.  The bracket is mild steel. 
They look prettier in person than they do in the photos. The bracket is just plane ugly because I was winging it to see if the concept even worked.  I was a little worried the servo power might be an issue. It spins much faster now...


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## Rodneyk

Today I added a cheap mist cooling system to my mill.  Gave it a try with a 1/2 endmill on mild steel.  I was able to take deeper cuts than normal (I assume because the mist is acting as a slight lubricant). The part and endmill stayed cool to the touch and the chips were more chip like that I was getting before.  

I guess with the cooling I should be able to run the mill faster, and the end mills should last longer??


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## davidpbest

Rodneyk said:


> Today I added a cheap mist cooling system to my mill.  Gave it a try with a 1/2 endmill on mild steel.  I was able to take deeper cuts than normal (I assume because the mist is acting as a slight lubricant). The part and endmill stayed cool to the touch and the chips were more chip like that I was getting before.
> 
> I guess with the cooling I should be able to run the mill faster, and the end mills should last longer??


Which mist coolant system specifically?


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## Rodneyk

davidpbest said:


> Which mist coolant system specifically?



This was a cheap generic one (ordered before we discussed the fogless ones).  It uses a simple venturi system with 2 needle valves to regulate the air flow and the fluid flow separately. 

I am using Kool Mist #77 for the coolant. 



			https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071DXGGP4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
		


It seems to work well from a couple of quick tests, although I understand there are better systems available, this is probabaly good enough for now.


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## Cletus

I bought exactly the same mist unit. I actually like it a lot and buying a couple more.


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## wachuko

Cletus said:


> I bought exactly the same mist unit. I actually like it a lot and buying a couple more.


I got two of those as well for my mill...


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## Jake P

I bought the same one as well and so far it’s working fine.  Got a second one in a drawer waiting for my lathe.


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## Cletus

This is the way I'm rigging mine.  Air Solenoid valve, regulator, oiler.
I use coconut oil for my machining lube and isopropyl alcohol for cooling. Since the two don't mix, I've got the coconut oil in the oiler and alcohol in the tank (drawn by venturi vacuum from the mister). Works great, nice fine, cool mist, with oil impregnation (air-line from oiler to mist unit not shown).  A switch activates the solenoid valve to get the whole rig going.  Works great! (little switch box was made using my CNC plasma-jet and my bending brake).
BTW I like to also put a little coconut oil in the alcohol, although it does not mix, it floats on the alcohol and creates an air barrier mitigating evaporation. I keep a layer of maybe 1/4" coconut oil above the alcohol.


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## Rodneyk

Making more tools.  Pictured below is the first tool I've made that required some pretty tight tolerances.
This is a Tap follower (springs not pictured) that was made from a 1" bar of 10L14 stainless for the body and cold rolled steel for the follower point.

I tried to harden the point with a torch and motor oil quench, but that threw off the tolerance slightly and I need to clean the part a bit to get it to slide smoothly.  The tolerance is close enough to produce a vacuum, and the part has no run out through most of the travel. 

Not perfect but then again it is just a tap follower so it does not need to be. The tap fits in a 1/2" collet.











The design was inspired by Quinn Dunki


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## Just for fun

Looks good,  Thanks for sharing!


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