# South Bend 10k Back Gear Pops Out



## engelbob (Dec 7, 2015)

After owning a mini lathe for several years, I bought a South Bend 10K on Craigslist.   It appears to be in great shape and the invoice from Grizzley says it was made in 1978.  The seller said it hadn't been run in many years so I cleaned it up and added oil where required in accordance with the lube chart.  I didn't have grease for the back gear shaft so I used heavy gear oil (80 wt. I think).   At first everything worked fine but now after running the lathe for a minute or less it pops out of gear.  I do see some slight oil seepage on both ends of the back gear shaft.  Could this oil instead of grease be my problem or is something else going on?


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## DoogieB (Dec 7, 2015)

It's difficult to say.  I use grease in the back gear shaft.  Are you sure the cone pulley is lubed?  Does it turn easily?

You can adjust how easily the back gear lever moves with a nut or bolt (can't remember) that is below the back gear shaft on the right side.


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## coffmajt (Dec 7, 2015)

My 9A would pop out of gear until I adjusted the eccentric that controls the engagement while in back gear - I have seen the step by step instructions somewhere in the South Bend posts -- Jack


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## engelbob (Dec 7, 2015)

coffmajt said:


> My 9A would pop out of gear until I adjusted the eccentric that controls the engagement while in back gear - I have seen the step by step instructions somewhere in the South Bend posts -- Jack


Okay guys, that helps.  I don't know much about this machine other than what I have been reading online.  I didn't know there was an adjustment for the lever.  It looked completely sealed to me but maybe I missed something.  I'll have another look tomorrow.  Everything seems to turn easily.  The motor and spindle sound smooth when the back gear is not engaged.  With the back gear engaged I do hear a noise that doesn't sound quite right.  I'm able to quiet the noise by putting some pressure on the spinning chuck.  It doesn't pop out all at once but gradually the handle will move back until there is no engagement.  I've thought of just putting a bungee cord or something to hold the handle forward in place.  I know, not a machinist's way of doing things.  Anyway, thanks for taking up this subject with me.


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## engelbob (Dec 8, 2015)

DoogieB said:


> It's difficult to say.  I use grease in the back gear shaft.  Are you sure the cone pulley is lubed?  Does it turn easily?
> 
> You can adjust how easily the back gear lever moves with a nut or bolt (can't remember) that is below the back gear shaft on the right side.


Thanks!!! You are right.  I went back to the shop this a.m. looking for the adjustment you mentioned and sure enough that fixed the problem.  I'm learning.  Coffmajt mentioned a thread with instructions on the proper adjustment and I'll keep an eye out for that.  I just tinkered with it until the gears stayed engaged and the noise was at a minimum.  I'm off and running again.  This is my first post to this forum and I'll try to attach some pics of it.  I'm really looking forward to learning what this thing will do.  My mini lathe has been fun and I won't get rid of it as it has its place.  Power, rigidity, long bed,  ..... bring it on!


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## Chuck K (Dec 8, 2015)

That's a damn nice looking lathe!


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## DoogieB (Dec 8, 2015)

Nice lathe!  Looks very cherry.  There's probably an interesting story on how that under-mount drive lathe ended-up in a home-made cabinet.  How do you release the tension on the drive belt?  I don't see the lever on the left side of the lathe.  Hmm,  after looking at the pictures a little more I think someone converted a benchtop 10K to a UMD.  That's different.

If you haven't already, you probably want to pick-up "A Guide to Renovating the South Bend Lathe" and a wick kit.  Even though my lathe is only 4 years older than yours, the old spindle wicks looked pretty sad when I replaced them.  If you dig back through my old posts, you can find the pictures.

At some point I plan re-wick the rest of my lathe, but other projects keep getting in the way.  It's hard to tear-down machinery when it's working OK even though you know those old wicks are getting hard.


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## engelbob (Dec 8, 2015)

Chuck K said:


> That's a damn nice looking lathe!


Thanks.  The 2 pictures on Craigslist were granny and in poor light.  I thought I'd be overhauling an abused machine when I bought it sight unseen.  It sat in a guy's backyard shed for many years and the seller didn't know anything about lathes.  When I saw it I thought ......JACKPOT!  The guy said it had extra parts.  I'll say.  An extra South Bend 4 jaw, steady rest, collet attachment with Hardinge collets, dog plate with dogs, numerous cutting tools with knurler, boring bar, box of bits to 1 1/2 in, reamers .... wow, I couldn't believe my luck.  I paid $1,200.00 for it and since added the QCTP and a face plate from ebay so I'm into it for about $1,500.00.   It was definitely worth the 5 hour one way drive to get it.  I know you guys living in the old manufacturing areas of the country find these things all the time, but here in the Midwest we just don't see many.  If I figure out how to post bigger pics like I've seen others do, I'll try to give it more justice in the "Show Your South Bend" area.


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## engelbob (Dec 8, 2015)

DoogieB said:


> Nice lathe!  Looks very cherry.  There's probably an interesting story on how that under-mount drive lathe ended-up in a home-made cabinet.  How do you release the tension on the drive belt?  I don't see the lever on the left side of the lathe.  Hmm,  after looking at the pictures a little more I think someone converted a benchtop 10K to a UMD.  That's different.
> 
> If you haven't already, you probably want to pick-up "A Guide to Renovating the South Bend Lathe" and a wick kit.  Even though my lathe is only 4 years older than yours, the old spindle wicks looked pretty sad when I replaced them.  If you dig back through my old posts, you can find the pictures.
> 
> At some point I plan re-wick the rest of my lathe, but other projects keep getting in the way.  It's hard to tear-down machinery when it's working OK even though you know those old wicks are getting hard.


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## engelbob (Dec 8, 2015)

DoogieB said:


> Nice lathe!  Looks very cherry.  There's probably an interesting story on how that under-mount drive lathe ended-up in a home-made cabinet.  How do you release the tension on the drive belt?  I don't see the lever on the left side of the lathe.  Hmm,  after looking at the pictures a little more I think someone converted a benchtop 10K to a UMD.  That's different.
> 
> If you haven't already, you probably want to pick-up "A Guide to Renovating the South Bend Lathe" and a wick kit.  Even though my lathe is only 4 years older than yours, the old spindle wicks looked pretty sad when I replaced them.  If you dig back through my old posts, you can find the pictures.
> 
> At some point I plan re-wick the rest of my lathe, but other projects keep getting in the way.  It's hard to tear-down machinery when it's working OK even though you know those old wicks are getting hard.



Thanks for the info.  You are right about the conversion to an UDM.  The lathe belonged to the deceased father of the seller and I was told it was converted.  The seller didn't know much abut lathes and he thought his father traded for it sometime in the 60s.  No so as it was manufactured in 78 per Grizzley.  The cabinet is steel framing with attached plywood.  There is no way to release the tension on the belt but I have managed to just slip it off the spindle then change positions on the lower pulley (original back pulley I do believe).  The release handle and linkage are in a box.  I haven't quite figured out how to make it releasable unless I make the shelf moveable with a hinge. 

I wondered about the wicks.  I'll do as you suggest and get the kit I've seen online.  The manual and replacement parts for about $65.  Thanks for passing along your expertise.


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## timvercoe (Dec 9, 2015)

Milling attachment come with it?  Supper nice score!


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## engelbob (Dec 9, 2015)

timvercoe said:


> Milling attachment come with it?  Supper nice score!



Yea the milling attachment was included.  The only things I added were a faceplate and the QCTP.  I'm still in need of a follower rest but no hurry as I have a lot to learn in the meantime.  The owner also made numerous tool holders (aluminum) and must have done a lot of boring as there are several of those. There are a couple dozen cutting tools of various sizes and grinds.  I asked the gal there (daughter of the deceased) what her father made with it and she didn't know other than "he built this house with it."  Okay.


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## timvercoe (Dec 9, 2015)

Might be interesting to look through the house and see what he might have made ...................might open a man's mind to new possibilities.


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## Chuck K (Dec 9, 2015)

engelbob said:


> Thanks.  The 2 pictures on Craigslist were granny and in poor light.  I thought I'd be overhauling an abused machine when I bought it sight unseen.  It sat in a guy's backyard shed for many years and the seller didn't know anything about lathes.  When I saw it I thought ......JACKPOT!  The guy said it had extra parts.  I'll say.  An extra South Bend 4 jaw, steady rest, collet attachment with Hardinge collets, dog plate with dogs, numerous cutting tools with knurler, boring bar, box of bits to 1 1/2 in, reamers .... wow, I couldn't believe my luck.  I paid $1,200.00 for it and since added the QCTP and a face plate from ebay so I'm into it for about $1,500.00.   It was definitely worth the 5 hour one way drive to get it.  I know you guys living in the old manufacturing areas of the country find these things all the time, but here in the Midwest we just don't see many.  If I figure out how to post bigger pics like I've seen others do, I'll try to give it more justice in the "Show Your South Bend" area.


Your lathe is a fine example of why I cringe every time someone suggests steering away from the vintage iron in favor of a brand new import.  Granted you need to know how to assess the condition of a used lathe, but there are a lot of nice old lathes for sale.  You just have to look.  Personally I would rather own that machine than a new one at twice the price.


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## engelbob (Dec 9, 2015)

Chuck K said:


> Your lathe is a fine example of why I cringe every time someone suggests steering away from the vintage iron in favor of a brand new import.  Granted you need to know how to assess the condition of a used lathe, but there are a lot of nice old lathes for sale.  You just have to look.  Personally I would rather own that machine than a new one at twice the price.



I know what you mean.  A friend and amateur gunsmith told me the same thing about older lathes.  They've lost their tolerance, they don't cut metric threads, they can't do machining with the chuck in reverse, parts availability and on and on.  There is just something about good ole American Iron going the distance.  I am lucky to have found this lathe in such good shape.  Still, I was prepared to restore an old one if necessary and live with old school technology.  Quality never goes out of style as they say and these older machines were built to take it. 

I will use it sparingly until I get the wicks changed and as I told the people I bought it from, "the old girl is in good hands."


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## engelbob (Dec 9, 2015)

timvercoe said:


> Might be interesting to look through the house and see what he might have made ...................might open a man's mind to new possibilities.



The family was in the last few days of disposing of the estate and I was too busy loading it on the trailer and getting it secured for the drive home to look in the house.  One of my helpers I brought along did go into the house then returned the next day  with his truck and loaded it with things he bought.  I do regret not seeing some of the stuff he described.  Stove, bedroom set that looked "killer" and whatnot.


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## joebiplane (Dec 10, 2015)

Look under back gear shaft on each end for square bolt head. That can be adjusted to the eccentric.    IIRC.  This should fix it......I think
Next.  After search. Get rebuild manual for 9  10k.  Invaluable. !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## timvercoe (Dec 10, 2015)

There is lots of information on practical machinist website about south bend lathes.  From my experience all the flat belt lathes from the baby jewelers lathes to up to the 15 in (I have a 10K and a 15 in) operate the same way.   The back gear on my 10K also jumped out, and I remember the adjustment being pretty simple although I don't recall how it works, I'd have to look at mine.  I do remember that it is on an eccentric adjustment and that when adjusted right the motion and forces of action hold it in.    There is some where out there a woman named Paula, who restored a 9 and documented it on the PM website.  You can find the thread by searching her name on the site and probably on Google too.  If you have trouble finding the thread let me know and I will get the address for  you.  

Tim


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## timvercoe (Dec 10, 2015)

You know I might add that although all the lathes operate the same way, I don't think any part interchange between models.  Seem like all SB lathes are a unique in parts used. 

Tim


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## engelbob (Dec 10, 2015)

joebiplane said:


> Look under back gear shaft on each end for square bolt head. That can be adjusted to the eccentric.    IIRC.  This should fix it......I think
> Next.  After search. Get rebuild manual for 9  10k.  Invaluable. !
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Thanks for responding.  I did as you and a couple other members suggested and the problem is fixed.  I'll keep my eye out for info on the proper adjustment.  I'll be ordering the manual and wick replacement kit directly.  I have the Practical Machinist site bookmarked and will continue to do my homework.


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## coffmajt (Dec 10, 2015)

Just saw the reference I remembered - Look at the South Bend section and there will be several pdf files dealing with south bend lathes -- Find the file named "How to Maintain the Back Gear and Eccentric Shaft" and this will explain how to set the friction to keep the gears engaged == Jack


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## engelbob (Dec 10, 2015)

coffmajt said:


> Just saw the reference I remembered - Look at the South Bend section and there will be several pdf files dealing with south bend lathes -- Find the file named "How to Maintain the Back Gear and Eccentric Shaft" and this will explain how to set the friction to keep the gears engaged == Jack



Thanks Jack.  I appreciate you taking the time to help me out.  I found that pdf and printed it out.  This site is awesome.


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