# Question Regarding Motor Mount - Montgomery Wards 84TLC-2130



## kkwright (Jan 17, 2017)

Hello, I'm new here and to the metal working hobby in general, so I thought I'd start by posting this first question.

I purchased a Montgomery Wards 84TLC-2130 (SN 7497A) a few years ago,which I believe is an early '50s model.  I haven't had the chance to do much with it until recently and I was looking over the motor-mount
arrangement.  The motor is the suspended-off-the-back affair, not the post leg mount like the equivalent Logan's had.

In any event, I'm not sure the motor-mount is complete or all there, though I can't see there's any obvious missing components.  However, I wouldn't think most of the weight of the motor would be carried by the
V-belt and jack shaft the upper pulleys are mounted to.  Especially as the bearings in the jack shaft are simple plain bearing, not designed to carry much of the weight of an electric motor.

It seems to work fine, but I'm concerned that a simple pivoting mount suspended by the V-belt from the pulley shaft above is not complete and as-designed.  There's clearly no V-belt tensioning arrangement in-place, except what the weight of the motor provides for.

In other words, does anyone know if there's any missing components on this unit?  I can't find decent photos that show this detail (to speak of) so I thought I'd ask here.  Please note the included photos that illustrate
the motor arrangement.

Thanks...


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## T. J. (Jan 17, 2017)

Looks like everything is there except this bolt:



It takes some of the motor weight off of the jack shaft. The weight of the motor is enough to tension the v-belt. On mine, when something slips, it's always the flat belt.


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## kkwright (Jan 17, 2017)

T. J. said:


> Looks like everything is there except this bolt:
> View attachment 180189
> 
> 
> It takes some of the motor weight off of the jack shaft. The weight of the motor is enough to tension the v-belt. On mine, when something slips, it's always the flat belt.



Thanks for the info and quick reply... exactly what I needed.

The design appears to be a cost-saving measure on the part of Wards.  My initial thought was putting the stress on the plain bearing jack shaft was not a particularly robust design.  However, the design seems to be working effectively all these years, so my concern is apparently a moot point.  I am intending to added the bolt/washers and nuts per your photo.

I also need to study the motor, pulley and jack shaft arrangement/alignment further as there is at least some fine tuning that can be done in the whole affair.  My plan is to change the motor to a 3-phase 24ov with VFD, once I get things settled.

Thank again!


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## Nogoingback (Jan 17, 2017)

On my Logan the arrangement is the same. That bolt is 3 1/4 inches long, threaded full length.


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## wa5cab (Jan 18, 2017)

You do need to install the missing bolt and washers.  Without it, an interrupted cut can set the motor to bouncing.


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## kkwright (Jan 18, 2017)

wa5cab said:


> You do need to install the missing bolt and washers.  Without it, an interrupted cut can set the motor to bouncing.


I'm intending to add the bolt/washers/nuts immediately.  I have noticed the motor bouncing already, especially during first start up.

Thanks...


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## tq60 (Jan 18, 2017)

Measure the diameters of pulleys and do some math...

That motor pulley looks to be very large. 

The spindle should be ball or roller bearing so it should be fine but other bearings not so confirm your rpm is within reasonable range.

The motor may bounce more or struggle with heavy cuts as well.

Check hp of motor too as a too high power with too high rpm is a bit risky...The lathe may break upon operator error instead of slipping or stalling.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk


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## Nogoingback (Jan 18, 2017)

tq is right, that pulley looks unusually large.  Don't know if it's the same p/n, but that pulley on a 10" Logan has an OD of 4.25".  A call to Logan would answer the question.
What diameter shaft does your motor have?


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## kkwright (Jan 18, 2017)

The outside diameters of the pulleys are 2 3/4" and 5".  The motor is 1/2 HP with a shaft diameter is 3/4".  I was suspicious the the pulleys were not original, though I don't know what the original shaft diameter would have been.


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## Nogoingback (Jan 18, 2017)

1/2 hp motors often have 5/8" shafts, so I suspect that would be the original size.  Logan sells pulleys in 3 different sizes for the 200 to accommodate different shafts, though
they are expensive.  I  have a stock Logan 200 pulley with a 3/4" bore that I'm not using: if you have an interest PM me.


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## kkwright (Jan 18, 2017)

I currently have a 1/2 HP motor, though if I go to a VFD I'll likely go to a 3/4 HP, though not any larger as I have to replace the motor with a 3-phase unit, anyway.

I think I'll pursue your recommendation and calculate the RPMs with the current pulley arrangment.  Appreciate the thought, I hadn't thought of doing that.



tq60 said:


> Measure the diameters of pulleys and do some math...
> 
> That motor pulley looks to be very large.
> 
> ...


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## tq60 (Jan 18, 2017)

Look into vfd selections as you need to De - rate for single phase input.

Download the manual for the unit you "think" you want to verify that it will work.

Larger motor will give more torque in the lower rpm so you can better use them at low speed.

Our 14.5 SB has 2 hp motor with 3 hp VFD and we can make it real slow without back gear and it has plenty of torque with flat belt in middle range.

If back gear and slow speed we can go almost stop speed.

You can do same.

Look at motor size as well as pulley size and verify a purchased motor can operate with VFD. Ours is original 1946 ish motor and it works fine fast and slow but we have low time use.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk


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## kkwright (Jan 19, 2017)

tq60 said:


> Look into vfd selections as you need to De - rate for single phase input.
> 
> Download the manual for the unit you "think" you want to verify that it will work.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice...


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