# Atlas/Craftsman 12x36" lathe...questions



## Jason280

I lucked into a deal on a Craftsman 101-07403 12x36" lathe, and hope to start restoring it back to 100% condition soon.  

First question, what is the model number of the comparable Atlas lathe?  Hopefully, having both model numbers will make looking for parts a little easier.  

Its in decent shape, just a little surface rust on a few parts.  Good thing is, it has the quick change gearbox, and both 3 & 4 jaw chucks.  Bad?  No motor, which is an easy fix, and the tailstock is rusted/locked.  I have it soaking now, but worst case is I have to pick up a replacement online.  Do the 9, 10, & 12" models all share the same tailstock?  

Gear wise, everything looks to be in very good shape.  The QC gearbox slides, and the half nut engages and moves the apron.   I need to replace a couple of the levers and wheels on the apron, but I have found those without too much trouble on eBay.  One of the gears that slides in the top slot of the quadrant assembly has the wrong bolt, so I can't get it tight enough.  So far, that's the only real gear issue I've found.  

It does have a few issues here and there...one of the covers is gone over the large pulley, and the bracket for the main gears is broken.  I should be able to fab up replacements, at least once I get it under power and make sure everything is 100%.

So, here are my questions.  Would it be worthwhile to go ahead and pull the gears to clean them, or just clean them in place?  If I do go to that trouble of pulling the gears, should I go ahead and replace the bearings?  What would be the most efficient way/method of proceeding?  Thanks!


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## Jason280




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## Jason280




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## Jason280




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## Jason280




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## Jason280




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## Jason280




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## lordbeezer

Gonna be a nice lathe..the tooling you got with lathe will come in handy..looks like you have a 3 into 2 morse taper sleeve in spindle.good luck..


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## Jason280

Here is the tailstock...


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## wa5cab

To answer your first question, no,  The 9", 10" and 12" do not use the same tailstock.  Most of the 10's and most of the 3/8" bed 12's do use the same 10D-6 tailstock base but for your particular 12", you will need the L4-5 Tailstock.  Note that the later tailstock fitted to the 1/2" bed machines will not fit your machine.

As to whether or not it would be advisable to disassemble the entire machine for cleaning and inspection, I would say yes.  As to whether or not you should replace part or all of the bearings and bushings, I can't say.  You will have to evaluate those parts yourself.

FYI, Clausing Industrial, which was once Atlas-Clausing, still carries some parts for the Atlas lathes.  But if your only exposure to prices is from the old Atlas or Craftsman catalogs, you may be in for some sticker shock.


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## Jason280

Thanks, I'll start looking for an L4-5 tailstock.

Any guesses on a year of manufacture?  I've tried going through the sticky for dates, but haven't been able to figure it out.

eta:  Found a really nice tailstock online, curious if I should go ahead and buy, or take a chance that I can get mine loosened up.


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## bama7

I would think you could persuade that tailstock to come apart. Nice little “love taps” ought to do it after a long soak.


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## DiscoDan

I have found that on things like this that a few days, lots of WD40 and some patience plus love taps pays off.


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## jwmay

I'd remove the tail stock locking handle and assembly entirely, before tapping on anything.  I don't want to come off patronizing, but I see that handle there, and would remove it, and inspect the mechanism first.  It's just four parts.  Two cylinders, a bolt, and that handle.  And it's purpose of course, is to keep your tail stock quill from moving.


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## markba633csi

You can clean a lot of it in place, what I like to do is go down to the grocery store and pick up some of those shallow aluminum foil baking trays, the big ones, and slip one underneath the headstock. Then use solvent (Coleman camp fuel is good) and a small paintbrush and scrub away
Later you may want to pull the spindle and replace the belt, but do an initial cleaning first
Some of the smaller gears look pretty worn, check Ebay for those
Mark


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## wa5cab

I actually missed your first question and responded to your second one.  The comparable 10" would be the 10F.  However, the parts that you need, motor belt cover, change gear bracket and tailstock, are different between the 10" and 12".  So that doesn't help you any.

Before I forget it, the first gear in the change gear train that you complained about the bolt not being the right length to lock it is called the sliding gear for a very good reason.  It is supposed to be free to slide.  If you could read the settings plate on your QCGB you would probably have figured that out.  So put that gear back to the way that it was.

How do you know that your machine is a 101.07403 and not a 101.27440?  The only difference between the two is that the former comes with a set of change gears  and a left lead screw bearing and without the 101.20140 QCGB.  And the latter has only the change gears that are on it and does have a 101.20140.  There should be a nameplate on the right end of the bed above the serial number plate.

I recommend that you acquire a replacement change gear bracket instead of trying to make one.  And it will have to be the one that goes with the QCGB and not the one normally on a 101.07403.

Your lathe was probably made in 1952 +/- 1.

As to whether or not to buy the tailstock that you found or to wait, you'll have to make that decision.  I would remove the handle from the ram lock and also remove the anti-rotate screw and nut from underneath where the ram sticks out of the casting.

In Downloads, there is a PDF showing the chart on the gearbox.  I think that it is in the threading section as it was scanned to go with the article telling how to temporarily convert the QCGB models to cut metric threads.  The name of the article is something like "A 30 Second Metric Conversion.pdf".  But you should keep your eyes open for that plate.  Or you might still be able to buy it from Clausing.  If they don't have the Craftsman one, ask about the Atlas one.

However, access to Downloads requires Donor status (minimum of $10 for a year) because Downloads is one of the significant monthly costs to keep the site running.


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## jwmay

wa5cab said:


> and also remove the anti-rotate screw and nut from underneath where the ram sticks out of the casting.


 
I don’t know about all lathes of this brand, but on my two, you can’t remove the anti rotation screw until you’ve removed the quill. Mine both had a square end on the set screw, that just fit the key way in the bottom of the quill. Just if it doesn’t act like it wants to turn, stop and keep working on getting the quill out first. Otherwise you’ll break the anti rotate screw...ask me how I know.  Wa5cab can probably tell you if that’s how they’re all made or not.


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## wa5cab

Oops.  Thanks for catching that.  You are correct.  The screw has the end flattened and two flats either milled or ground on opposite sides so that it makes a key.  And with the ram inserted , you can't rotate the screw more than a few degrees.  I would however suggest loosening the lock nut and confirming that the ram is not stuck to the key and that someone didn't for whatever reason jam the key in the slot and lock it.

One other point.  We are pretty sure that the bearing at the rear of the tailstock is pressed into the casting.  At least no one that I know of has ever managed to remove a bearing.  Otherwise, that is maybe what I would do and then try to press the ram out.

One other thing that you might try after soaking the whole thing for a while is to remove the handwheel and Woodruff key from the drive screw.  Drill a flat bottom hole in a piece of 3/4" or 1" solid round aluminum to a depth of about half of the length of the exposed screw, and slide this over the screw.  Drill a hole slightly larger than the ram through something like a 4x4 fence post.  Set the post in a press, stick the exposed part of the ram into the hole, and use the press to try to break the ram free.  Or as a last resort, use a hammer on the piece fitted over the screw.  As far as I can tell, you have little to risk if it doesn't work.


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## Jason280

> How do you know that your machine is a 101.07403 and not a 101.27440?



I thought I had posted this data plate earlier, but looks like I missed it.


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## Jason280

> Then use solvent (Coleman camp fuel is good) and a small paintbrush and scrub away



Never thought about Coleman camp fuel, I have several gallons of it (as well as kerosene) I can use.



> Before I forget it, the first gear in the change gear train that you complained about the bolt not being the right length to lock it is called the sliding gear for a very good reason.  It is supposed to be free to slide.  If you could read the settings plate on your QCGB you would probably have figured that out.  So put that gear back to the way that it was.



I actually haven't really done anything with it yet, I just noticed that the gear would slide out of place sometimes (as it was meshing with the other gear) when I would turn the chuck.  I still have quite a bit to learn about the machine, and what all the different levers/gears do.  

I do appreciate all the suggestions, its definitely going to be a fun project.  A friend of mine has suggested dumping the entire tailstock in his electrolysis tank, may help breaking down some of the crud.


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## jwmay

Jason280 said:


> A friend of mine has suggested dumping the entire tailstock in his electrolysis tank, may help breaking down some of the crud.


 It’ll work. I did it once. But it really doesn’t look like it’s in that bad of condition. Anyways you’re the one who has it, so you’d know better than me.


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## jwmay

But...I think there are some aluminum parts, or zamak (which contains aluminum) which will be ruined(according to gurus on the net) if dumped in an electrolysis tank. So remove them first. I’m thinking that’d be the tailstock bearing housing, the handwheel, the quill locking clamp, and the clamp handle.


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## Jason280

I'll keep soaking it in penetrating oil, and maybe I can get it apart.


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## ELHEAD

Jason280 said:


> Never thought about Coleman camp fuel, I have several gallons of it (as well as kerosene) I can use.


Kerosene would be the better choice of the two. It's a lot slower drying than Colemans. I would check on the volatility of Colemans. I think you will find that is too flammable to be a safe cleaner, about like gasoline.
Dave


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## Jason280

> Kerosene would be the better choice of the two.



I found an older Craftsman lathe manual online, and it actually mentions using kerosene.


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## wa5cab

Electrolysis has been said to degrade Zamak and aluminum.  There are no aluminum parts on the tailstock (at least originally) but the handwheel and handle are Zamak, although that's easy to remove.  The ram lock handle is but that's even easier to remove.  And The two ram lock cylinders are *at least originally), and those are possibly the culprit to begin with.  And even if they are not stuck, the lower one cannot be removed without first removing the ram.  I don't know about the feed screw bearing.  It may be, but I have never checked it.


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## wa5cab

Jason280 said:


> I thought I had posted this data plate earlier, but looks like I missed it.



OK.  Then that probably explains the separate model number plate on the QCGB.  I don't think that it is present on the 101.27430 and 27440, and I know that it isn't on the half inch bed later 12" machines.

I would put the manufacturing date as around 1951.  And we have a few of the 101.27430/440's with nearly the same serial numbers, so the 101.20140 was probably also out.  The guy who bought the 101.07403 could have saved a few bucks had he bought one of them to begin with.

Incidentally, your sliding gear should have a steel washer between the 16T and 32T gears of the sliding gear.  It should have come as part of the QCGB kit.  The early version 10" QCGB didn't have it originally but the 12" version was several years behind the 10" and should have.  If any loose parts came with the lathe, look through them to see if he didn't put it on but kept it.  Incidentally, the only time that you need to mesh the sliding gear with the 32T is when you are cutting 7.5 through 4 TPI threads.  So if it isn't there, it won't cause much of a problem.


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## markba633csi

Dave: Kerosene works too, but it's so stinky.  I like the faster evap of Coleman fuel, I consider it an advantage especially if used indoors
Some use paint thinner; it's about the same price as Coleman, at least in my city
M


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## Jason280

No steel washer, but I can't imagine it would be difficult to source.

What is the correct HP rating for this lathe, and any suggestions on a quick-style tool post?


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## pontiac428

Jason, I don't want to startle you, but from the pics (and it is hard to assess from pics) it appears the bed is worn heavily near the head stock.  Have you measured this, by any means available?  It's hard to tell for sure in that light, but you might want to find out what the extent of the wear is, and if that particular wear point is going to be a problem for you.  You can have the bed ground, and you can find another bed easily.


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## pontiac428

Jason280 said:


> What is the correct HP rating for this lathe, and any suggestions on a quick-style tool post?



These came with 1/4 and 1/2 HP motors.  For quick change tool posts, an Asian import AXA setup works great on these lathes.


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## Jason280

Any suggestions on how to measure/check the ways?  I have a few Starrett precision levels, mics, etc...


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## pontiac428

The ultimate proof is to cut a test bar, but a straight edge and an eyeball will tell you everything you need to know.  My Atlas has enough wear to account for, and my bed is in exemplary condition.  I can't see it, but I can feel it when I adjust the gibs.  It's there.  The pictures of your bed grabbed my attention, even though it's hard to tell from pics.  I don't want to be the first guy to cry wolf, but I would be concerned with the wear on that bed before investing a ton of work into the lathe.  Like I said, you can get beds for Atlas lathes for near scrap prices these days as old lathes come out of basements at estate sales and go on eBay and CL, so it's not the end of the world.  Check it now so you can make a plan going ahead.


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## Jason280

Loaded question of the day...let's say I can get this lathe back to near 100%, how would it compare with a South Bend Heavy 10 from the 40's??


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## jwmay

It wouldn’t. Because they aren’t meant for the same work. 
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
Keep in mind your particular version is not a 10f, but it shares enough parts and pieces to be considered the same machine by most.


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## jwmay

But...I believe you already know how most people feel. I’m gonna get a Southbend machine someday just so I have a personal opinion. A Heavy 10 would be harder to get in a basement. Parts are probably more expensive. It’s got those pesky v ways.  It weighs twice as much. It’s made of cast iron and steel...all of it.  Everybody wants one. I don’t see the draw.


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## Jason280

Only reason I ask, a nice Heavy 10 just popped up....price seems a little high at $3k, but I really have no idea how to price one.


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## jwmay

Well the good thing is there will always be another one, especially at that price. I’m sure they’re good machines, but this lathe you’ve already got can also provide you with just as much fun.  I really like Atlas Craftsman machines though, so it’s not an unbiased view you are getting from me. I’d have one just like yours if I ever found one at the right price...at the right time...at the right location.


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## wa5cab

Atlas recommended a 1/2 HP motor for their 10" and for the 12" up through 101.27440.  These are all 3/8" bed machines.  And 3/4 HP for the 1/2" bed machines.  If you later should happen to install a variable speed DC or 3-Phase motor, bump that up one step to maintain power and cooling at less than rated motor RPM.


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## Jason280

How difficult is it to simply convert over to a variable speed DC motor?  I have an extra AC motor I can use right now, bit might consider the DC of it isn't too complicated.

I monkeyed around with the tailstock a bit this morning, and removed the bolts, rear handle (what's left of it), and lower clamp.  The center is pretty well stuck in, but I haven't gotten too aggressive with removing it.  Isn't it simply tapered fit?  Should I just try drifting it out with a brass wedge and some firm whacks with a 3lb hammer?  My concern is bending the actual tail portion, it looks to be fully extended.


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## markba633csi

Hi Jason, variable speed is great, definitely consider doing it at some point, some folks take apart old treadmills for the motor and controller.
Once you have variable you won't want to go back, it's so handy
Mark
ps I saw your bed it looked like some rust which should clean up with oil and a plastic scrubbing pad- don't use sandpaper or emery cloth
Keep working with the tailstock, it may take a week or more of soaking and tapping to free it- use blocks of wood to protect the metal- some gentle heat from a heat gun or hair dryer may do the trick


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## jwmay

Did you remove this I circled?

The  center won’t come out until you run the quill all the way back into the tailstock by turning the screw at the rear counterclockwise.


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## Jason280

Yes, it's been removed...

Haven't had a chance to do much else with it, but I did snag some carbide lathe tooling...


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## wa5cab

Bit of terminology - the common name for the movable part of a tailstock is the ram.  It does not rotate.  A quill is the rotating and extendable part of a vertical mill or drill press and of some (?) horizontal boring machines.

Yes, the tailstock ram on all Atlas and Atlas Craftsman 9", 10" and 12" lathes has a 2MT taper.  The way to eject any 2MT center or arbor from the tailstock ram is to retract the ram.  If the arbor or center does not have an extraction key on the small end, the taper will hit the end of the feed screw slightly below zero on the scale on top of the ram.  If the taper does have the key, the extraction point is just under 1/2" on the scale.  Any beating or banging on the external part of the live center will probably damage it and make it unusable.  If you ever get the ram freed up, crank it back into the tailstock and try to extract the center that way.  If it is too badly stuck, crank the ram completely out of the tailstock and use a hardened pin small enough to slip into the threaded hole in the back of the ram and a hammer or press and try to get it out that way.


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## jwmay

I agree that it can be called a ram. But calling it a quill isn’t wrong either. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Or here’s two pictures, one for each of us, with a third term thrown in for good measure. 
	

		
			
		

		
	



 To the OP, Wa5cab and I are referring to the same thing. His advice though, is laid out better.


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## Bi11Hudson

A day late and a dollar short... again. I made a comment and haven't been following closely since. 

As far as the motor goes, my 101.27440 is rated for up to 1/2 HP. What I have mounted is a 1/3 HP Baldor. If I was to go variable speed, it would be in the 3/4HP range. Or maybe even up to 1.0 HP. That to allow for the losses inherent to going below base speed with the motor. 
Conceded, I do mostly small work so motor size doesn't play a large part. But I have done larger work, front brake disks; removing the disk from the hub and the machine never slowed down. So 1/3 HP is doable and short of commercial work, probably heavy enough.

As for the tail stock, the best I can say is to soak it for a couple of days, basically what you're doing now. Then retracting it as far as it will go, as already advised. It is a MT-2 and once broken loose, it's free. I have another machine with a MT-3 head and a MT-2 tail. Had to shorten the tail stock centers to fit the small machine and then they were too short to get out of the big machine. Drilled and tapped the backside for a screw to contact the tail stock ram when it was retracted. And removed the screw when I wanted to use the center in the small machine. I had the same problem on acquisition, but don't remember how I fixed it. Just that it was no big deal. And touched up the ram with a reamer before fine tuning.

Bill Hudson​


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## Jason280

SUCCESS!!  Sort of...

I was able to get the ram retracted and the center out, but it's still pretty hard to turn.  How do I get the assembly apart further?  I'm almost convinced to buy a new tailstock, simply because I am not sure I will be able to clean it up enough....plus, I'll never be able to see the marks.

img]https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/15608/20190418_060629_jpg-916359.JPG[/img]


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## Jason280




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## Jason280

I also had a chance to get a few pics of the bed, at least once I cleaned it up a bit.  I wasn't able to run an indicator on anything through the headstock, but did take a few pics with a Starrett 98 level...not sure that really tells me much of anything, but I did find a few places where I could slide in a 0.005" shim.  Of course, I think the concern is wear where the apron slides, but it seems negligible (best I can tell).


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## pontiac428

Okay, those pictures are much clearer than the first, where the worn corner looked more pronounced. The wear surfaces of concern are the outer edges, 90 degrees to the outside of the top flats of the bed. Looking down from the top, these lathes wear a waist near the head stock. The worn corner is from swarf coming off of the work, and will not affect anything. I think the original pic of the bed made it look significantly worse than it appears in the new pics. May not be a problem after all.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


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## jwmay

Congrats!


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## Bi11Hudson

OK, now the really dumb question about model numbers. My machine is a 101.27440. It looks identical to the machine in this post. The author presents two different part numbers, 101.0743 and 101.20140. ?What is the difference here, why so many numbers for what looks more or less the same? I'm confused, I think...


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## ARC-170

I have a similar lathe and am going thru a similar process. I pulled the gears and bearings off to clean them. Mine had gunk that needed to be manually cleaned off and this was much easier to do with the parts off the machine. I used a wood paint stick and shaped the end to fit between the gears. Also, if you pull the spindle off, you can see dates on the bearings which will tell you when your lathe was made (as long as they are the original ones). I had grease and gunk in various places that I would not have found had I not disassembled the machine.

I used a combination of Simple Green (it can take paint off!) and kerosene (bought some at Home Depot or Lowes) for solvents. I set up a box fan to blow away the fumes while I worked in my garage with the main door open.

Take picture before so you can re-assemble it correctly, and/or have the parts diagrams handy. I printed mine out and used magnets to post them up by my work space.

I have an extra tail stock that might fit if you can't get yours un-stuck. PM me and we can figure something out.


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## wa5cab

Bill,

The 101.07403 is a Change Gear lathe (no QCGB).  Up until circa 1947, it came in four different bed lengths, 36", 42", 48" and 54", corresponding to distance between centers of 18", 24", 30" and 36". These had four different Catalog Numbers but only the one Model Number.  After 1947, Atlas quit making the 36" and 48" beds.

The 101.27430 (12 x 24) and 101.27440 (12 x 36) were a 101.07403 of the correct bed length with the left lead screw bearing removed, the QCGB added, the Tumbler compound gear (10-101-16A) replaced by a 1546, and the only change gears supplied being the three installed on the lathe (40T & 2 x 48T).  Those are the only differences.


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## Jason280

> I pulled the gears and bearings off to clean them.



How difficult is it to pull all the gears, including the bull/headstock gears?


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## ARC-170

Jason280 said:


> How difficult is it to pull all the gears, including the bull/headstock gears?



It's not hard. I made a tool to do it. Look at post #86 in my restoration thread (https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/arc-170s-craftsman-101-07403-lathe-restoration-thread.74024/ ). It has a picture of my set-up. There are instructions somewhere as well from Atlas. I think the MOLO has them as well.


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## Jason280

Thanks!

I bit the bullet and went ahead and ordered a replacement tailstock off eBay.  By the time I replace the ram/quill, rear wheel, etc, I would have just about the same amount in it as the replacement....which doesn't need any work.  Now, I just need to pick up a live/dead center, drill chuck, and a quick style tool holder.


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## wa5cab

Jason,

The instructions that Jeff referred to are those for pulling the spindle out of the headstock.  When you have removed the spindle from the headstock, you will have removed all of the parts from the spindle except for the large spindle bearing cone (spindle head bearing cone).  I am pretty sure that removing that cone from the spindle will be potentially destructive to the bearing, as you will be pulling on the rollers and cage if you do it.  I don't think that the bearing cone inner race big end is much larger than the flange on the spindle.  So my recommendation would be to only pull the cone if you intended to replace it.  Done correctly (for example, as Jeff did it), no damage should be done to anything else.


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## wa5cab

Bill,

I forgot to add that the model number 101.20140 is the model number of the QCGB add-on kit.  It will not appear on the GB on a 101.27430 or 101.27440 because it is already a part of those machines.  FYI, the 101.20140 could be retrofitted to any of the 3/8" bed 12" machines, all the way back to the 101.07360.


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## Jason280

The more I think about it, the more I believe I will just clean everything up as best I can with the gears in place...no sense in potentially damaging anything unnecessarily.  First thing I need to source is some SAE 20 non-detergent oil, as well as a modern equivalent to Keystone No 122 grease.... not sure either are sold locally.  

I've also been looking at the different quick change tool post holders, are the generic imported models pretty much all the same?


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## markba633csi

I think it requires a knife-edge style puller to remove the front cone bearing properly, although I have not done it on mine


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## wa5cab

Until you get more familiar with it, that is probably the safest thing to do.

ISO 68 is the metric more-or-less equivalent to SAE 20.  Mobile Heavy Medium Circulating Oil is what I used for several years.  Last time that I needed to replenish, Tractor Supply was carrying SAE 20 ND.  But someone recently said that they had discontinued it.

On the open gear grease, look for some that mentions use on open gears.  Or if you can't find that, use some that is listed as graphite bearing or carrying with a temperature rating above 100C or 212F.  The problem with most of your garden variety grease at the auto parts places is that it'll melt at only slightly above 100F and will quickly sling off.

FYI, the French company TOTAL bought Keystone many years ago.  One of the first things that they did after taking over was to discontinue the No. 122.


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## TonimusMaximus

Former ASE parts guy here. Molybdenum disulfide disk brake wheel bearing grease is great for gears. Good stickiness and doesn't drop off until at least 300*F. Stuff is a bit messy to apply, but generally stays where you put it. Acid brush works good for gear applications. The disk brake wheel bearing greases are rated for much higher heat than traditional wheel bearing grease due to heat soak from brake disks.


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## wa5cab

Thanks.  That sounds like something that would be easier to find that what I described earlier.  Does it usually come in tubes or cans or squeeze containers?


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## TonimusMaximus

Comes in both tubs and grease gun tubes. You may be able to find some in a squeeze tube, but those are rare.


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## Jason280

Thanks!


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## Jason280

I've made a little progress with the lathe.  I was able to get the tailstock completely disassembled, but its still a little stiff...the quill/ram really needs to be turned itself, and cleaned up with some 500-1000 grit sandpaper.  I also picked up a thread dial, and mounted it in place.  

I did run into an issue, but I think it is simply a lack of understanding on my part (at least I hope).  I disassembled and cleaned up the 3 jaw chuck, it was pretty gunky and difficult to adjust.  Got everything together, and the jaws meet perfectly in the center, except I cannot get a piece centered in the jaws.  I checked runout at the side of the chuck, and its no more than .003-.004", but runout with a piece in the jaws is bad enough you can see the wobble.  I can gently tap the piece and get it maybe to 10-12 thousands, but that's about it.  Granted, I don't have a piece of rod stock that I know is perfectly straight, but I don't think it would make a lot of difference.

Is there a trick to getting pieces correctly centered in a 3 jaw chuck, or is it likely the chuck itself?  I haven't tried the 4 jaw yet, and haven't actually tried it under power...this is with me slowly rolling the headstock via the main pulley.


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## wa5cab

The only "trick" that I know of is that you should have one jaw at BDC (doesn't matter which one except for the practical requirement of having the chuck key on top) when you tighten the jaws.  If you have one jaw at TDC, the workpiece will tend to get pinched between the two lower jaws as you tighten them.  Make sure that you have all three jaws in their proper slots.  Both the jaws and the slots should have 1, 2, or 3 stamped on or beside them.


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## Jason280

Yes, I have them in their correctly numbered positions.  I haven't tried with one of the jaws at 6 o'clock, I'll give it a shot.  I can tell you that about the best I can get is *maybe* 15 thou, and that's with a lot of tapping....worst case is, I may end up having to grind a little off 1 or 2 of the jaws.


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## Jason280

Another question, trying to figure out a few things with the back gear assembly that changes to direct drive/low gear.  My understanding is you pull the pin on the main gear, then roll the eccentric to engage the two back gears to lower the speed.  Is this correct?

The rear gear (#10-242) in the headstock, which the large gear from the back gear assembly engages, has clutch dogs (not sure that is the correct term) that mesh with the rear of the pulley assembly.  The pulley assembly can be slid forward enough that it completely disengages the rear back gear....what is the point of this?


----------



## jwmay

The bull gear has a set screw and is keyed to the spindle shaft. When in back gear, that pulley drives the small gear on the left through those “clutch dogs, which drives the back gear assembly, which drives the bull gear, which drives the spindle. Slide the pulley back into engagement with the small gear on the left, and tighten the set screw in the bull gear that is on an angle after it’s all together and your two spindle gears are in line with your two back gears.  Before you tighten it, it may behoove you to remove the set screw and drop a small piece of brass or copper wire into the hole, to avoid upsetting the spindle where the set screw bears. But before you do any of that, wait for Wa5cab to reply, just in case I’ve missed something.


----------



## wa5cab

Jason280 said:


> Another question, trying to figure out a few things with the back gear assembly that changes to direct drive/low gear.  My understanding is you pull the pin on the main gear, then roll the eccentric to engage the two back gears to lower the speed.  Is this correct?



Yes, that is correct.  When in back gear, the pulley will make about six revolutions while the bull gear and spindle are making one.


----------



## wa5cab

There is a shoulder on the spindle against which the collar to the left of the small spindle gear should sit.  Loosen the set screws in the collar and push the collar toward the tailstock without rotating it and re-tighten the set screws.  Pull out the direct drive pin and confirm that the pulley is free to spin on the spindle.  

There is an oil plug at the bottom of one of the pulley grooves.  There have been a few reported cases where a PO has somehow forced the set screw/oil plug on down and against the spindle, which locks the pulley to the spindle.  If you pull out the direct drive pin, engage back gear, and try to start the motor, either the motor stalls, the belts slip, or the pulley slips and the screw damages the spindle.  If this has been done to your machine, back the oil plug out three or four turns, and find a short (3/16" or 1/4" set screw to put down in the hole and lock the oil plug.  But hopefully this hasn't happened to yours.  If it has, there is nothing to do about it at this point but if you ever pull the spindle, you will almost certainly have some difficulty in getting the spindle through the pulley.  And you will need to replace the damaged pulley bushing that results when you pull the spindle through it.

At this point, since odds are that it hasn't been done in years, oil the pulley bushings.  Pull out the direct drive pin and slacken the belts.  Remove the oil plug from the pulley groove.  Put about three squirts of SAE 20 ND through the hole and reinstall and tighten the plug.  Tighten the belts, start the motor and let it run for 10 or 15 seconds.  If you haven't done this in the past month, repeat twice.

Slacken the belts, pull out the direct drive pin, and check the end float of the pulley.  The books don't give a figure but there should be definite movement, maybe 0.003" to 0.010".  The only adjustment would be to move the bull gear, which might take it out of alignment with the small back gear.


----------



## markba633csi

My personal rule of thumb is to chuck the chuck.  Well, I mean that many older lathes are sold with chucks that are so worn they have done their best work and need to be retired.  You might be able to improve it a bit but I wouldn't spend a lot of time and effort.   Use your 4 jaw for accuracy until you can afford a decent 3 jaw
Mark


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## Jason280

Most of that makes sense, but its still a little confusing!!


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## wa5cab

Part of what Mark is alluding to is that the scroll disk wears both in the threads and in the spigot and hole that it runs on.  The common way of re-grinding the jaws using a pre-loading jig plate is not really satisfactory in my opinion as the gripping surfaces end up with a radius ground on them instead of the original flat.  There is a way around this as all of the Atlas lathes have a 60-hole index in the bull gear but it still doesn't do anything about the scroll. 

So he is saying that if the chuck is worn out, it is just worn out.


----------



## Jason280

Any suggestions on a decent 3 jaw replacement?  Shars lists a 6" 3 jaw for 1.5x8 spindles for $150, and I'm sure prices go up from there.

Actually, now that I think about it, doesn't a South Bend B9 have the same spindle thread?  If so, I could always try the 3 jaw chuck from the one I have...

Also, and I assume this is pretty straightforward, any special technique for removing the spindle adapter?


----------



## wa5cab

Yes, the SB 9A, B and C all have 1-1/2" - 8 spindle nose threads.  So anything that will screw onto an SB 9" spindle should also fit the Craftsman 12".


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## Jason280

My plan was to try my SB 3 jaw chuck this morning, except it seems to be stuck pretty firmly in place.  I didn't have time to try and muscle it off, so I'll have to try again tomorrow.  Hopefully the runout on the SB chuck is much better, it would definitely make things easier.


----------



## wa5cab

Well, good luck.


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## Jason280

No luck on the SB chuck, it must have a different thread pattern....it will barely start threading on, and then stops.


----------



## wa5cab

They are both nominally the same 1-1/2"-8 threads.  The difference has to be in the details.  Carefully measure the diameter of the registry and major diameter of the threads on the two spindles.


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## jwmay

I’ve read something about them not being compatible, but wasn’t sure enough to say so. Unfortunately, I cannot remember exactly why.


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## Jason280

I'll mic them once I get a chance, but a little surprised it wouldn't work.


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## TonimusMaximus

I'd be willing to bet the major diameter is different. Ran into the same issue when I re-barreled my Savage rifle. Only went about 1/4 turn then bound up. I ended up knocking down the major diameter on the barrel. Doubt I'd try that on the lathe spindle, though...


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## wa5cab

Most likely.  If the chuck had to be usable on the Atlas, you would need tp chase the threads in the back plate.  An possibly adjust the register bore.  But that would make it unusable on the SB.  So best bet is go buy another chuck.


----------



## Jason280

Interesting thing I noticed earlier today with the lathe.  I've been going through the gears in the quick change GB (while rotating the spindle by hand), but cannot get the left lever into the "E" detent.  I can get it close, but not quite all the way.  I've also noticed that with some settings on the QCGB, it becomes difficult enough to rotate the spindle that it causes the belt to slip.  Now, I haven't actually tried it under power, wanted to make sure all the bugs were worked out first. 

I assume I will probably need to pull the QCGB and check it, anything else I should be looking at?

eta: Also, how do I correctly "size" the belt running from the electric motor to the main pulley?  I know the length isn't too much of an issue, but how thick should it be and should I use a cog/notch style or standard V pulley?


----------



## jwmay

Jason280 said:


> . I've also noticed that with some settings on the QCGB, it becomes difficult enough to rotate the spindle that it causes the belt to slip.



There will be different levels of resistance between different settings on the QCGB, depending on how many gears are being used to get that feed rate.  But I've already lost confidence to continue with this train of thought.  I don't have a gearbox on mine, so maybe that idea is all wet.  I do agree that you're gonna have to at least get down and look up in there, to see what's stopping your E selector.  Maybe it's just full of chips and gunk.  Oil gets pretty hard after a few decades of sitting around.  It may just be that.  Maybe just spray brake parts cleaner up in there, and see if anything changes.  The standard application is one full can according to Mr. Lyle Peterson. My Youtube shop teacher.



Jason280 said:


> should I use a cog/notch style or standard V pulley?



Standard V pulley, or link belt.  It's been suggested not to be cheap when selecting the link belt.  I've got enough faith in the recommendation to agree.  While any brand new V belt of proper size will probably do the job equally well.  As I've been putting mine back together, I've already realized that once all the extra hardware is on the headstock, I'm not going to want to take it back apart to get the spindle out and change the v belt. So, I'll more than likely be buying a link belt whenever the need for replacement is apparent.


----------



## wa5cab

The Atlas 10F and Craftsman 12" made prior to 1957 use Fractional Horse Power (FHP) V-belts with part numbers beginning with 4L plus a 3-digit number which is the belt length in tenths of an inch.  The single digit before the "L" is the nominal outside belt width in eighths of an inch.  

There is no good reason to use a link belt for the motor belt unless you already have enough new and good quality links to make one up.  Otherwise, you are just spending more money.


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## jwmay

Agreed. I wasn’t paying attention to which belt the OP was asking about. What about the gearbox problem Wa5cab? Any historical problems he should be informed of? Are those gears zamak too?


----------



## wa5cab

I don't know of any statistically significant common problems with any of the five QCGB models.  Supposedly, all of the gears in all of the QCGB's are steel.

I am still waiting for a simple visual inspection.  As someone mentioned, it could just be stuffed full of shavings.


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## Jason280

Just to confirm, the lead screw pulls straight out of the QCGB?  All I need to do is remove the support bearing at the end of the table, and then slide the lead screw through the apron?  After that, I can simply unbolt the QCGB?  

One more thing, I replaced the bolt that holds the slide gear in place on the quadrant...how tight should it be?  Should it slide at all?


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## wa5cab

Yes.  Although I would move the carriage down to the middle of the bed and engage the half nuts and carriage drive handwheel to extract the lead screw.  And first, rotate the spindle with tumbler in either FWD or REV until the slot is more or less at 12:00.  Also, one screw is hidden under the setting plate on the GB.  So step 1 is to remove the plate.  And I think that there is one bolt or stud on the left end up under the countershaft.  And I would remove the change gears from the banjo before pulling the screws.


----------



## wa5cab

Something like 20 or 25 foot-pounds would be tight enough for the nut holding the sliding gear.  If you loosen the quadrant clamp handle and drop the banjo, the gear should slide IN or OUT on the double-keyed 9-70A Bushing..


----------



## Jason280

Thanks!


----------



## Jason280

Hit a snag pulling the lead screw, I can only get it to move about 1/4-1/2"...


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## Jason280

I gave up on pulling the lead screw, went ahead and wired in the motor....yeah, it's a counter clockwise rotation.   Not sure if it can be reversed, but it at least let me hear the lathe run for the first time.  Bearings and gears sounded good, but the motor is not stong enough...doesn't have enough startup torque to always get the chuck turning.  














It's just a cheap Chinese motor, will likely swap it out with something a little better....that spins clockwise.


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## wa5cab

Well, all single-phase capacitor start motors with a RUN winding, a START winding, a START capacitor and a centrifugal switch to disconnect the start circuit (START winding and START capacitor) are reversible.   Some are just easier to do than others.  If you can, post a photo of the junction box on the motor.


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## Jason280

The junction box on the side is nothing more than 2 wires coming out, nothing else.


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## Jason280

Any suggestions on getting the lead screw out?


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## jwmay

A motor rated for 1 horsepower should be more than adequate to get the chuck turning every single time it starts. I have no input on the lead screw, sorry.


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## Jason280

Yeah, I figured a good US manufactured 3/4 HP motor would work fine for the lathe...some of the import motors are notoriously overrated on their data plates.  I'd be very surprised if this one made 1/4-1/2 HP *at the most*.


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## Tozguy

Jason280 said:


> but the motor is not stong enough...doesn't have enough startup torque to always get the chuck turning.


First thing to do is put in a new start capacitor. These things have a limited life span and a new one will revive the a good motor.


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## Jason280

> First thing to do is put in a new start capacitor. These things have a limited life span and a new one will revive the a good motor.



Really depends on whether I can (easily) get this motor to run clockwise or not.


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## jwmay

I'm sure Wa5cab knows for certain, but I don't even think you need a 3/4 hp motor.  There are expensive and difficult to replace items in between that motor and the piece of metal you're turning.  Any opportunity to save those bits will help.  A half of one horse power is really quite a bit of power.  I don't know if you've ever had horses, but yeah....They're pretty strong critters.  Anyways, you can always run the belt a little loose or something.  My little Ammco shaper has a 1/3 hp motor on it, and that motor does not stall.  The belt will slip long before the motor shaft even begins to pretend it might slow down.

A start capacitor can be had for fairly cheap by comparison to the motor.  It's not a bad idea to try it.  But I get your point on making it turn the right direction first.   Your machine there should have at one time, had the reversing switch I'm talking about.  But maybe that was an option the PO chose not to avail himself of.

Any luck with the lead screw?


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## markba633csi

I'm familiar with that style of motor and it should be fairly easy to reverse. Likely needs a new starting cap or there's a problem with the starting switch inside.  
You probably can find a good used US motor locally on Craigslist
Mark


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## wa5cab

First off, the motor claims to be a 1 HP unit, but that is the approximate input power, not what the motor will output.  It would output 1 HP only if it were 100 % efficient, which no motor is.  It's the worst case of over rating that I recall seeing.  The motor is actually a 1/2 HP unit if you rated it at approximate output power at typical efficiency.

Secondly, the standard voltage in the USA has been 120 VAC per side for well over half a Century, not 110 VAC.  So someone over there is still living in the first half of the last Century.  I wrote recently in another thread that you could roughly date a used capacitor start motor by the nameplate voltage.  But not so with this one as whoever made the nameplate claimed it was made in 2002.

At any rate, if you ignore the misleading nameplate data, the motor is the right size for this machine.  The motor appears to be in good condition at least externally.  So if you have no need for a reversible motor, and can reconnect it internally to turn in the correct direction, it is probably worth buying a new START capacitor for it.  To reconnect it, you will need to remove the motor end-bell and bearing support probably from the end that the wires come out of and locate where the START circuit is connected in parallel with the RUN circuit or windings.  If you disconnect the start winding, switch and capacitor from both sides of the RUN windings and reconnect each end to the opposite end of the RUN windings, the motor will start and run in the opposite direction.  However, if you decide to replace the START capacitor and keep the motor, I would suggest taking the as-is motor to a motor rewind shop and ask them to do it.  They will already know what to look for.


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## Jason280

I looked at a Marathon farm duty 1/2hp motor at Tractor Supply, it was almost twice as heavy almost the current motor.  Of course, it's also considerably more expensive, but would likely be worth it in the long run.


----------



## wa5cab

On the question of removing the lead screw in order to remove the QCGB, there are no set screws to loosen.  The collar that is visible where the lead screw goes into the gearbox is there to adjust the end float of the L6-1040 gearbox output shaft.  This shaft is hollow and has an internal key that the 5/8" diameter end of the lead screw engages.  If you want to see what the parts look like, the installation and parts manual for the 101.20140 QCGB is in Downloads.

When you said that the lead screw only moved 1/4" to 1/2", did the collar movement account for part of that?  Probable you need to rotate the spindle with tumbler engaged so as to bring the long lead screw keyway to TDC and then soak the end of the lead screw where it goes into the shaft.  Also soak the set screw in the collar in case you later decide to disassemble the gear box.  My guess is that the lead screw is just stuck in the output shaft.

In the event that soaking with penetrating oil doesn't quite do the trick, the other or final option is to remove the lead screw right support bearing which will expose the jam nut threads on the right end.  These threads should be 1/2"-20.  Borrow or rent a slide hammer puller.  If it doesn't come with a set of adapters, you will need to make a double female adapter.  One end would be threaded 1/2"-20.  The other end would be threaded to fit the threads on the end of the puller bar.

Your only other option in the case of a stuck lead screw would be to remove the tailstock and carriage from the bed.  Then remove the gear box with lead screw in place.  With the gear box inverted, you should be able to remove the circlip from the inner end of the output shaft.  That will allow you to remove the output shaft and lead screw.  With a support bar with 3/4"+ hole drilled through it, you will be able to press the lead screw out of the hollow shaft.


----------



## wa5cab

One other thing that I will mention about motors if you are going to buy a new one is this.  Places like WW Grainger have some of their motors in groups of three.  The first one is without thermal overload protection.  The second one has thermal overload that does not reset itself when the motor cools off.  Manual reset only.  The third one has automatic reset.  Do not buy the third one for any machine tool.  If something happens while running, it will try to re-start about the time you have your nose down in there trying to figure out what went wrong!


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## Jason280

> When you said that the lead screw only moved 1/4" to 1/2", did the collar movement account for part of that?



Yes, the collar slid with the lead screw...and I had the keyway shaft at 12 o'clock.


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## jwmay

I dont know what the tractor supply motor costs, but you may check EBay for a factory replacement. There’s a hundred pages of Atlas Craftsman goods for sale on the bay.


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## Jason280

Yeah, definitely no shortage of parts!  TSC wants around $250 for the motor, I should be able to find one cheaper online.


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## wa5cab

Jason280 said:


> Yes, the collar slid with the lead screw...and I had the keyway shaft at 12 o'clock.


Unfortunately, the 101.240 manual doesn't include any instructions on how to assemble it - only info on how to install it on a lathe.  If you look at the illustrated parts list, you will see that on the left end of the hollow shaft is a circlip.  Then a gear.  Then a "shims" and then the collar and set screw.  I would assume that the shims are to properly position the gear so that it fully meshes with the gear driving it.  Then would come the hole through the right end of the GB, and outside that the collar.  One would expect that the collar would be positioned next to the outside wall of the GB, with perhaps 0.005" running clearance.  But not a quarter inch away from the wall.  I will try to find time to call Clausing tomorrow and see whether or not they have any factory assembly instructions.

In the meantime, you still need to get the lead screw out of the GB.  The reason for positioning the keyway at 12 o'clock was so that the penetrating oil could stand against the key inside the hollow shaft.  It might help if you lift the right leg of the lathe about an inch and set it on something for a spacer - such as a piece of 1x4.  And then squirt some more penetrating oil in there.


----------



## wa5cab

On motors, I tend to be partial to Grainger, probably because their Houston store is less than 5 miles away and the nearest Tractor Supply is about 25 miles away.  But their prices are probably comparable.  You want a 56 frame (and not a 56C).  Beyond that, they offer at least three brands.  Prices ranged from a low of $163 to a high of over $500.  In general, open drip proof with no thermal protection are cheapest.  TEFC (Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled) with Manual reset thermal protection are the most expensive.  However, as lathes are infamous for throwing swarf (metal shavings or dust) into places where you don't want it, I would pay more and get a TEFC even though it will cost more.  If this were something like a cutoff saw, I would recommend you also pay extra for manual thermal protection, as they are quite often started on a job and then you go do something else while they cut.  In fact, last year I had to buy a new motor for my saw because it jammed and burned up before the 30 amp circuit breaker finally tripped.  But on a lathe, mill or drill press, you either can't or shouldn't ever walk off and leave it running.  The motor on my Atlas 3996 happens to have a manual breaker but in going on 39 years, it has never tripped.  So I would say that a thermal breaker isn't worth paying more for on a lathe.  The only reason I have one with a breaker is that's what was on the machine when I bought it.


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## TonimusMaximus

If you don't mind a bit of work and wizardry, you could do a treadmill motor conversion.


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## Jason280

Hmmm, that is an option....


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## Jason280

I looked through a few FB marketplace ads, and found a cheap treadmill for sale...but wasn't really convinced the motor would be big enough.  I guess I need to do a little more research.  

My tailstock still hasn't come in, may end up having to use the original for now.  Not sure where it _actually_ is, its been listed in Atlanta now since 4/23.  I suspect either the label has been damaged and can't be read, or it wasn't packaged well enough.  I get a lot of things through the mail, and some shippers can be hit or miss when it comes to properly packaging an item (especially something heavy).

Other than that, really haven't been able to do much with the lathe.  I was able to finally get the QCGB into the "E" detent, but still can't get the leadscrew out.  I'll likely end up pulling the apron, which I really don't want to do, but doesn't look like I have a choice.


----------



## wa5cab

Well, you could still try the slide-hammer puller.  But if the thing doesn't start moving after three or four hits, I think that I would stop and pull the carriage.


----------



## Jason280

I actually have a couple different slide-hammer pullers, but not sure I'd feel comfortable pulling too hard...something is definitely holding it in place, it will probably make more sense once I pull the QCGB with the lead screw.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Jason280 said:


> I looked through a few FB marketplace ads, and found a cheap treadmill for sale...but wasn't really convinced the motor would be big enough.  I guess I need to do a little more research.



Most treadmill motors are in the 1.5 to 2.5 horse range. But it is easy enough to look it up if you know the make/model of the treadmill.


----------



## martik777

Keep on eye on CL for used motors - many can be had for $20-40, maybe consider a 3 phase and get a cheap VFD

I had a worn chuck like that on my SB9A, served me well for years. If you can make your part in one chucking runout doesn't matter. 

Consider making an ER collet chuck for better runout than any chuck. I made both er25 and er32 chucks that are dead on.  You could also buy an er chuck with an MT3 shaft (I think yours is MT3?) but you would not have thru hole ability.


----------



## Jason280

> Most treadmill motors are in the 1.5 to 2.5 horse range



I know most are physically smaller than comparable electric/AC motors, but can they truly match torque & HP levels of the AC motors?  I assume they are all DC motors, but honestly not sure.


----------



## martik777

Jason280 said:


> I know most are physically smaller than comparable electric/AC motors, but can they truly match torque & HP levels of the AC motors?  I assume they are all DC motors, but honestly not sure.



I have a couple but never used them to power the lathe. I have used them to power the leadscrew so I don't have to listen to noisy gears.  It so quick and easy to change speeds with the belt I don't need variable speed. . They definitely lose torque at the lower rpm's but if you retain the countershaft it shouldn't be an issue.  I made my own controller similar to this: 



  Didn't need the coil though.


----------



## TonimusMaximus

Even if you don't need variable speed, the starting torque of a DC motor is quite incredible. Only real downside is the electronics needed to power them as treadmill motors are brushless and therefore can't just be fed straight DC.


----------



## Jason280

It would be easy to simply keep the electronics of the treadmill, though....just seems like it might be more work than it is worth.


----------



## martik777

The parts needed to make your own controller are approx $10 on ebay and take 15 mins to put together. I used the treadmill controller for a while but it's huge and offers less speed control.


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  But if it were mine, I would want to know why the GB output shaft had over 1/4" of endfloat before I used the thing any significant amount.


----------



## Jason280

Not sure if I'd call it "endfloat", it only exists once the support bearing at the end of the table is unbolted.  In other words, its correctly staying in position while assembled, its simply not wanting to slide out of the QCGB...at least, its only sliding 1/4" before stopping.


----------



## wa5cab

The only reason that on your machine, the right lead screw bearing controls the end float of the gearbox output shaft is that your lead screw is frozen at its current position in the output shaft.  It should not be.  Removing the two bolts attaching the bearing to the bed should have allowed you to easily remove the lead screw from the lathe.  Remember that when everything is working, moving the output shaft also moves the gear on the other end of it.  And 1/4" of movement of the gear will disengage that much of the gear teeth.  Which cannot be good.


----------



## jwmay

I hate to muddy the waters, but there are several considerations to account for when repowering with a dc motor. If you can find a decent AC motor that’s affordable, I’d just do that. I think for those who have done it successfully, some luck and research was involved. But you’ll just as easily spend a hundred bucks on two treadmills, both with incompatible, underpowered motors and controllers....and still be no further ahead. Ask me how I know.


----------



## Jason280

> But you’ll just as easily spend a hundred bucks on two treadmills, both with incompatible, underpowered motors and controllers....and still be no further ahead. Ask me how I know



Yeah, that's why I'll likely end up sticking with an AC motor.


----------



## Jason280

Went ahead and pulled the lead screw with the QCGB and apron...what's the easiest way to get the apron off?


----------



## Jason280

SUCCESS!!

Here is the reason the lead screw wasn't sliding out...






I was able to get everything cleaned up, gears looked pretty good.


----------



## wa5cab

When cleaned up, all of the parts do seem to look OK,  There should be some shims between the output gear on the output shaft and the inner end of the GB casting.  Those are to align the output gear with the gear that drives it.  Then absent any information to the contrary, I would slide a 0.005" to 0.008" feeler gauge between the outside end of the casting and the collar, hold everything snugly together, and tighten the grub or set screw in the collar.  Then remove the feeler gauge and check that the output shaft turns freely.  As you can now see, the lead screw should be free to slide in the bore of the output shaft, with the lead screw end float controlled by the bearing assembly at the tailstock end of the bed.


----------



## Jason280

I'm assuming you mean the area I marked below with the red line?






I was curious about the amount of play there, but there were no shims in place when I disassembled it.


----------



## markba633csi

Treadmill motors are virtually all dc brush type and can easily be controlled either with the original treadmill electronics or a substitute controller with armature feedback such as KB electronics. Even a simple light dimmer plus bridge rectifier circuit will work for just a few dollars, but won't have the best speed regulation under load.
Mark


----------



## Jason280

I gave up on the treadmill motor, and went ahead and bought a new 1/2 HP motor from Harbor Freight....total was right at $100.  Tractor Supply carried a similar motor, but would have been closer to $270...couldn't really justify to extra expense.  Granted, who knows how long the HF motor will last, but it looks to be well built.


----------



## Jason280

Any reason not to go ahead and wire in a reversible drum switch?  Generic drum style switches are available on eBay for under $10 delivered, and considering I now have a reversible electric motor, seems like a no brainer...

Thoughts?









						Drum Switch Forward/Off/Reverse Motor Control Rain-Proof Reversing 60A  | eBay
					

Wash-down Safe and Rain Proof. Auto Door Lock. 3 Positions: Forward, Stop, Reverse. Switch Parts & Accessory. Switch Action: Maintained (Stay Switched). Heat Shrink. Casing: Impact and Corrosion Resistant Plastic.



					www.ebay.com


----------



## jwmay

I assume the men that built these originally thought it was a good idea. People often point out the risk of accidentally unscrewing the chuck from the spindle by running in reverse. But it must not be a super easy thing to do. Otherwise I’d expect they wouldn’t have offered it.


----------



## wa5cab

I would keep the motor switch that's mounted on the headstock and use it to start and stop the motor.  Mount the drum switch somewhere behind the lathe, out of reach of kids and knob twiddlers.  I have never heard of a case where a properly seated chuck came loose just from starting the motor in reverse.  However, do not do any turning, threading or facing in reverse.  But grinding in reverse is normal and OK.  You don't want the grinding wheel throwing the spark stream up in front of you.  And you don't want the spindle running in forward with the stream directed downwards because that subtracts the wheel speed from the spindle speed and reduces the relative velocity of the wheel and workpiece.


----------



## Jason280

Wa5cab, what was your opinion/take on the shims?  Is my illustration above correct?


----------



## mmcmdl

I'll check my motors and see what I presently have .


----------



## wa5cab

Jason,

If you mean is the red line in the photograph showing where the missing shim should be, yes.  My take is that  it needs to be in there.  The part number is 9-53.  You can tell that it isn't in there because the teeth on the output gear don't line up with the teeth of the gear driving it.  The substitute does not have to be a single piece.

Also, you can now see how with the collar not properly adjusted, it is probably a good thing that the lead screw was stuck in the hollow shaft.  You can imagine what would have happened if the output gear were meshed with both gears and you then started the motor with gearbox tumbler engaged.  It would ruin all three gears, and/or crack the gearbox casting. 

Call Clausing first and see whether or not they have one on hand.  If so, buy it, and when it arrives mic the thickness and post it here.  If not, ask them to send you a scan of the parts drawing, from which you will have the dimensions with which to find a substitute.  Forward the drawing to me if you get it and I'll clean it up and put it into Downloads for the next guy.


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## Jason280

Thanks, I'll check with Clausing...


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## Jason280

Just got off the phone with Clausing, it's surprising how many parts they have available!  They have the shims, except they are listed as washers...I picked up a couple, along with a few other items, so hopefully they will be correct.


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## wa5cab

OK.  Sounds good.  When you post the shim (washer) thickness, also post OF and ID so we'll have it should Clausing stop carrying them.


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## Jason280

Haven't updated this thread in a while, as I haven't been able to do much with the lathe.  The shims came in, but they look a lot thinner than what I need....may end up having to machine my own.  I did finally get a replacement motor mounted, and the lathe is again under power.  Now, its just a matter of finishing up a few other projects and get focused back on the Craftsman!


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## Jason280

Here was the previous *ahem* 1hp motor, compared with the 1/2 HP I picked up...


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## wa5cab

I meant to write yesterday that there are several ways to rate the horse power of an electric motor.  AFAIK, US practice has for decades been to use the (usually) measured mechanical power out.  Which is done on a dynamometer with the motor loaded to its rated Full Load Amperes (FLA).  At least the cheaper Chinese way can be to use the electrical power in and assume 100% efficiency.  The typical single phase AC motor usually has an efficiency of 50 to 75%.  But they can call the motor whatever they please.  Which is apparently what happened here.  1 HP is 746 Watts.  The input power in Watts is equal to the product of the RMS line voltage times the rated FLA.


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## Jason280

Ran into an interesting issue with the lathe today, I can only get the power feed to feed in the reverse direction.  The half nut appears to be engaging, but doesn't want to feed forward towards the chuck.  It will feed all day in reverse, so not sure how to troubleshoot.

Any suggestions?


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## markba633csi

Yes I have suggestions: Is the leadscrew only turning in one direction or does it reverse properly? If it is not reversing then you must have a problem with the tumbler reverse gears.  
If it is reversing, then there must be a problem with the half-nut assembly under the apron- worn or broken half-nuts or carrier
Mark


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## markba633csi

Whatever broke the half-nut lever (in your first posting) couldn't have been good for the mechanism behind it- the problem is likely there


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## Jason280

The leadscrew is turning both directions, so the problem is in the apron...may end up pulling the apron again to inspect the half nut.


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