# Colchester Bantam 2000 Motor Problems



## srosefx (Jan 7, 2015)

Hi 

I wonder if you have time to help out a fellow Colchester owner. 
I recently bought one here in NZ for $4000 (2000 uk pounds) and it came with a brook compton parkinson motor rated at 2.2kw , 3.2/4.0 hp. 
Its obviously 3phase but i would also, like you have, to run it on a vfd.

i have done a ton of research and i always end up having too much info and a lot of it doesn't apply, if i search 3 phase 440v converter i get USA sites and conflicting advice.

THE THING I FIND CONFUSING is: i have a dual voltage motor, it says on the housing 380 - 420 / 440-460. why does this have 4 different voltages?
Does this even matter to have a dual voltage VFD?

I have been offered a VFD inverter from direct drive, this is their recommendation: 

"OK it sounds like a 2 speed motor from the two ratings and so our dual stage inverter is needed, 

Our model DSA5 will cover up to 4KW and offer speed control, these cost £850+£17.50 P&P including VAT,

this seems a LOT of money so $16o0 for a VFD.

Should i just rip the motor out and put a single phase 3 hp mother and get a VFD to change RPM?
this is of course the easy option i feel.

I feel like a bit of a noobie at the moment as I'm still confused about how to get this thing going!

I am a very keen machinist with a lathe thats a giant paper weight right now. 

Any help would not go without tremendous appreciation.

Thanks
Simon


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## JimDawson (Jan 7, 2015)

*Re: Clausing/Colchester 11" (Colchester Bantam 2000)*

Let's start with what voltage you have available in your shop?  Single or 3 phase?

The motor that is on your lathe sounds like a older standard European 3 phase, dual voltage motor.  Read the name plate as 380 or 440 volt.  It's not going to work on 220 volt.  I would get a 230 (220-240) volt motor for it.  Then all you need is a single phase, 220 volt input VFD.

Maybe one of the members in your part of the world can shed a bit more light on the subject.  I have worked with a lot of North American and European power, but I've not had the chance to visit your area.


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## srosefx (Jan 8, 2015)

I was actually posting in that thread becuase a member by the name of Clem ... http://www.hobby-machinist.com/member.php/35850-Clem ....may be able to help as he had the same motor and lathe, quote



Clem said:


> Hello.  I've also just bought a Bantam 2000 Mk2.,  which has a 3kW two speed 415V three phase motor.  I though I might swap  in a new, dual voltage, lower power motor but, after a bit of reading  on the internet and a lot of talking to people, I decided to try just  hooking it up to a 2.2kW (I think) VFB inverter.  I wired it up to the  low-speed windings on the motor and it seems to work a treat.  At the  moment, my max. speed is 990rpm.  I tried hooking the inverter up to the  high speed windings (let's call them terminals 4, 5 and 6), leaving  terminals 1, 2 and 3 unconnected and, although it did run up to full  speed, it was low on torque.  However, when I turned the frequency down  on the inverter, it had more torque although, obviously, at lower speed.   My next thing is to try hooking the inverter up to terminals 4, 5 and 6  and connecting terminals 1, 2 and 3 together, to see if that works any  better for the high speed.  I'm going to stay on the low speed windings  for now, as I rarely need to go above 990rpm.  Obviously, I won't be  getting the full 3kW of power but I doubt I'll notice that.  I'm running  the inverter off a 240V, single phase supply through a 13A plug with no  problems so far.  If necessary, I will swap in a proper dual voltage  motor at a later date.  There's quite a bit of stuff about this on the  internet and, if you're in the UK, I can let you know who I bought the  inverters off as he's a very helpful man: with his advice, I have  managed to wire the original apron control lever and also the emergency  footbrake into the inverter and they work a treat.  I have also managed  to wire my coolant pump into another inverter, again with his advice.   Please get in touch if you want any more information: I've got a few  crude wiring sketches that I did to get it all wired in, and some  pictures.  Enjoy.
> 
> I have a question of my own about changing feed rates on this machine  but I think I'd better post it somewhere else in this forum (I've never  used a forum for anything before, so am a bit new to it all).



It would seem he was very suited to understanding my issue. as we have same power (single phase 240) and requiring 400+ volts 3 phase. and his help would probably solve my problem.

Cheers

Simon


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## Clem (Jan 8, 2015)

srosefx said:


> I was actually posting in that thread becuase a member by the name of Clem ... http://www.hobby-machinist.com/member.php/35850-Clem ....may be able to help as he had the same motor and lathe, quote
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hello Simon,

I've got a load of stuff on this.  Give me a few days to get it all together and I'll try to post it here.  If I can't do that, I am happy to e-mail it to you, if you let me know your e-mail address.

Cheers,

Clem.


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## Clem (Jan 8, 2015)

Clem said:


> Hello Simon,
> 
> I've got a load of stuff on this.  Give me a few days to get it all together and I'll try to post it here.  If I can't do that, I am happy to e-mail it to you, if you let me know your e-mail address.
> 
> ...



Hello Simon,

Please see the attached description of how I wired up my motor.  Apart from the apron control lever switch and the emergency footbrake, I pulled out all the original wiring.  I don't really know if this the right way to do it but, so far, it seems to be working ok.  I'm on the low speed windings so my maximum speed is 990rpm but, so far, that is just fine.  Obviously, I'm not getting the full 3kW, and will be down on power but, again so far, I haven't noticed.  I'm running it off a 13A plug so am limited to how much power I can have, anyway.  I was going to switch in a proper, dual voltage motor but this set up seems to be going OK at the moment.  However, I haven't yet put any large load on things (i.e. no really big, fast cuts). On inverter choice, I got a lot of advice from Drives Direct and I think he said that my inverter is a 2.2kW one.  I think that, in theory, this isn't big enough for my motor but, as I'm never going to use full power (due to being limited by the 13A plug), that doesn't matter for me.  I intend, at some point, to have a play with the high speed windings to see if I can get higher speeds out of the machine but that, I believe, would lose me more power and I don't really think I need the higher speeds.  The inverter is a 240V single phase in-240 three phase out inverter.

My understanding of all this stuff is very limited but, by asking a lot of questions of a lot of people, I seem to have got the machine up and running, and it is very nice.  Like I said, the man at Drives Direct was very helpful.  Also, I've got RCDs and MCBs into the 13A supply.

I hope this helps.  Like I said, it's only how I did things but I seem to be getting on at the moment.

Cheers,

Clem.
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment Apron Control Lever Wires 20150108.pdf
View attachment Main Motor Wiring.pdf


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## srosefx (Jan 8, 2015)

Clem said:


> Hello Simon,
> 
> Please see the attached description of how I wired up my motor.  Apart from the apron control lever switch and the emergency footbrake, I pulled out all the original wiring.  I don't really know if this the right way to do it but, so far, it seems to be working ok.  I'm on the low speed windings so my maximum speed is 990rpm but, so far, that is just fine.  Obviously, I'm not getting the full 3kW, and will be down on power but, again so far, I haven't noticed.  I'm running it off a 13A plug so am limited to how much power I can have, anyway.  I was going to switch in a proper, dual voltage motor but this set up seems to be going OK at the moment.  However, I haven't yet put any large load on things (i.e. no really big, fast cuts). On inverter choice, I got a lot of advice from Drives Direct and I think he said that my inverter is a 2.2kW one.  I think that, in theory, this isn't big enough for my motor but, as I'm never going to use full power (due to being limited by the 13A plug), that doesn't matter for me.  I intend, at some point, to have a play with the high speed windings to see if I can get higher speeds out of the machine but that, I believe, would lose me more power and I don't really think I need the higher speeds.  The inverter is a 240V single phase in-240 three phase out inverter.
> 
> ...



Hi Clem
thank you for such a prompt reply.
I am a little puzzled, as you say you have a 415 3 phase motor running on 240v 3 phase?
I would never have thought would work.

The drives direct guy is quoting me 850 quid for a dual voltage 240v to 440v 3 phase step up VFD but at the moment i cannot see myself justifying that expense. 
A 2.2kw 240v vfd would be so much cheaper. 
I too do not need huge torque or RPM as im working pretty small right now. but in the future when i do have the money and the justification, i will buy the one hes recommending. 

cheers
simon


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## badboydas (Mar 4, 2016)

Hi Clem
Great info, like Simon I have same issue but with your info motor will be promptly put back in lathe.
cheers


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## badboydas (Mar 7, 2016)

Clem said:


> Hello Simon,
> 
> Please see the attached description of how I wired up my motor.  Apart from the apron control lever switch and the emergency footbrake, I pulled out all the original wiring.  I don't really know if this the right way to do it but, so far, it seems to be working ok.  I'm on the low speed windings so my maximum speed is 990rpm but, so far, that is just fine.  Obviously, I'm not getting the full 3kW, and will be down on power but, again so far, I haven't noticed.  I'm running it off a 13A plug so am limited to how much power I can have, anyway.  I was going to switch in a proper, dual voltage motor but this set up seems to be going OK at the moment.  However, I haven't yet put any large load on things (i.e. no really big, fast cuts). On inverter choice, I got a lot of advice from Drives Direct and I think he said that my inverter is a 2.2kW one.  I think that, in theory, this isn't big enough for my motor but, as I'm never going to use full power (due to being limited by the 13A plug), that doesn't matter for me.  I intend, at some point, to have a play with the high speed windings to see if I can get higher speeds out of the machine but that, I believe, would lose me more power and I don't really think I need the higher speeds.  The inverter is a 240V single phase in-240 three phase out inverter.
> 
> ...


Hi Clem
Did you only connect the three phases straight to the motor with no other changes to the motor apart from leaving the hi speed side open?
cheers


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