# 0-1/2 ULTRA PRECISION KEYLESS DRILL CHUCK



## Jlwwade (Jul 3, 2017)

Hi guys,

Has anyone used the R8 ultra precision keyless drill chuck that Precision Matthews is selling. I am in the market for a new chuck so let me know what you think.

Thanks!


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## mikey (Jul 3, 2017)

I seem to recall that @darkzero has one of these chucks. Hopefully, he'll chime in.


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## darkzero (Jul 3, 2017)

Nope, not me, they did not exist when I was tooling up. For keyless chucks I have 2 Glacerns, a Bison, & a Jacobs Italy. For keyed chucks I have 3 Jacobs 14Ns, & an 18N. I think I'm good on chucks but for some reason I keep looking.


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## mikey (Jul 3, 2017)

darkzero said:


> Nope, not me, they did not exist when I was tooling up. For keyless chucks I have 2 Glacerns, a Bison, & a Jacobs Italy. For keyed chucks I have 3 Jacobs 14Ns, & an 18N. I think I'm good on chucks but for some reason I keep looking.



Oh well, I tried.


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## mksj (Jul 3, 2017)

I have used their 5/8" version of this chuck on a friends mill, works very smoothly and was very nicely made.  Chucks I use on my mill include a 1/2" Glacern keyless, 5/8" LLambrich Hexa CNC keyed, Jacobs 14N and few others in the draw. They all have a run out of under 0.001". The keyless do not work for power tapping or reversing the chuck, so will use a keyed chuck in those cases. I do like the integrated R8 shank with the chuck. Albrecht is also a common high end keyless chuck, but recent experience from others that have bought this chuck have returned them for poor TIR, also the newer Jacobs chucks made in China have had similar issues. If I needed a keyless chuck I would recommend the PM or the Glacern, for a new keyed chuck, LLambrich.


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## davidcarmichael (Jun 27, 2019)

I know this is an old thread but I just bought a PM 1/2" ultra-precision R8 chuck. They promise a TIR of 0.00157”. I just measured a TIR of .0006". This may not represent what everyone would get but it is WAY better than I have ever seen. I have been using an Albrecht but not so much in future. What are folks seeing with Glacern and LLambrich chucks?


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## silverchips (Jul 1, 2019)

I’m too interested in hearing about the PM chucks. I come across a lot of Albrecht’s but have to say the TIR on a lot of them is not great although some are under .001”.  Factory spec. is 003” or under which most measured around that although several would be around .006” and would be sent back.
Totally agree on avoiding the overseas Jacobs, I would try to find a new USA made keyless, I have one and it’s beautiful and good TIR although there doesn’t seem too many were made compared to Albrecht’s that ruled that era. I would avoid the overseas version, especially for the price.
Look for Keyless chucks made in Spain, Llambrich probably made them and have generally been really good. Another is Rohm another good one made in Germany.

Funny thing, my best TIR keyless 1/2” chuck is one I bought on Amazon for $30 (China). It was around .0005” and grips well. It replaced an Albrecht and still going strong; I certainly do not expect to get a repeat performance for another one.


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## archie (Sep 20, 2019)

mksj said:


> also the newer Jacobs chucks made in China have had similar issues.


yes sir, i have ordered two and sent back. both were way off the specified tir 0.0015.
so i am in the market for a high quality drill chuck for knee mill.


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## Bob Korves (Sep 20, 2019)

Drilling does not require accuracy measured in tenths, unless perhaps you are talking about really tiny drills and/or really fussy work.  I am lucky enough have quite a few very nice drill chucks, from high end makers, and they all work pretty well.  If they are within .003", they are quite useful for most any work I do with a drill bit or any other tool I mount in a drill chuck.  Yes, I go to the known (and tested) more accurate chucks for more fussy work, but I also go to the less accurate ones on purpose when I just want to drill holes to remove metal, quick and dirty.  Even on many milling machines in our shops, the spindle accuracy can be way less than .001", and many/most drill presses can be quite poor, certainly not gaining useful accuracy from using high precision chucks.  On lathes, it is not so much about the chuck accuracy, it is more about the geometry of the tail stock to the spindle when looking for better accuracy with drilling.  Ultimately, if we want to get a hole to proper size and location, we will be using a drill to hog the metal, a boring tool to locate the hole accurately, and then a reamer to get it to a final accurate size -- for precision work.  Drills are not by nature high precision tools, and other tools held in drill chucks typically aren't, either.  Most of the time I am just reaching for a chuck that will hold the drill without it slipping, and fast, smooth, and easy for installing and removing the drills.  Of course, really poor drill chucks are just trading stock...


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## davidcarmichael (Sep 20, 2019)

Bob Korves said:


> Drilling does not require accuracy measured in tenths, unless perhaps you are talking about really tiny drills and/or really fussy work.  I am lucky enough have quite a few very nice drill chucks, from high end makers, and they all work pretty well.  If they are within .003", they are quite useful for most any work I do with a drill bit or any other tool I mount in a drill chuck.  Yes, I go to the known (and tested) more accurate chucks for more fussy work, but I also go to the less accurate ones on purpose when I just want to drill holes to remove metal, quick and dirty.  Even on many milling machines in our shops, the spindle accuracy can be way less than .001", and many/most drill presses can be quite poor, certainly not gaining useful accuracy from using high precision chucks.  On lathes, it is not so much about the chuck accuracy, it is more about the geometry of the tail stock to the spindle when looking for better accuracy with drilling.  Ultimately, if we want to get a hole to proper size and location, we will be using a drill to hog the metal, a boring tool to locate the hole accurately, and then a reamer to get it to a final accurate size -- for precision work.  Drills are not by nature high precision tools, and other tools held in drill chucks typically aren't, either.  Most of the time I am just reaching for a chuck that will hold the drill without it slipping, and fast, smooth, and easy for installing and removing the drills.  Of course, really poor drill chucks are just trading stock...



I do agree and I have not been troubled by the less than stellar TIR of my Albrecht, though I have been troubled by occasional slippage probably due to the need for an overhaul. I was just kind of fascinated when I saw such low TIR's for keyless chucks and I do like it when a product matches or exceeds its specs. I know that with Precision Matthews, if it had been out-of-spec they would have handled it properly. 
Of course over time I expect the TIR to deteriorate, but it is great to get such a high precision starting point.


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## archie (Sep 20, 2019)

I would not rely a drill any day of the week for a precision hole. But when I spot off with a drill chuck for a drilled hole I would expect it be in the advertised specifications for the drill chuck that I have acquired. but then again, I am fussy. LOL


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## T Bredehoft (Sep 20, 2019)

I purchased (from Precision Matthews) one Keyless Chuck for my lathe, it came with a Morse taper.   I found that I could only use it when I tightened it with the spamer (If I spell it right auto entry takes over) that came with it. Hand tight wouldn't hold the drill. With the appliance referenced above (N<span></span>) tight enough to hold the drill, it wanted to turn the Morse taper. I don't use the chuck any more.


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## pontiac428 (Sep 20, 2019)

I have the Shars version of the same chuck.  Compared to my Albrecht (also bought new) it holds it's own and is a pleasure to use.  These days I only use drill chucks for drill bits, so I see no issue with reversing as mentioned above.  Taps go in tap collets, mills go in mill holders, everything else goes into ER collets, so that really only leaves drills for the drill chuck.  Okay, and countersinks, but that's it.  If I'm going to the trouble to loosen the draw bar, I may as well use the right method of holding a tool.  If that job happens to be shooting holes, these ultra precision import chucks are keen to accomplish the task.


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## RJSakowski (Sep 20, 2019)

One thing to remember about product specifications is that the spec states (hopefully) the maximum deviation that the product should have.  There is a probability that you could purchase one that is absolutely perfect.  

An exception would be when a manufacture uses binning; basically sorting product into different bins of varying quality.  This is common in the electronics industry.  If that is the case, you could be fairly certain that you would never see a product with a better spec. than the maximum deviation of better product. The exception to that exception is that sometimes a manufacturer will run out of stock for the poorer quality product and substitute the better quality product.

It is possible to gain a clearer picture as to actual performance but this would involve sampling multiple items.  The larger the sample population, the better the understanding of the performance.

The takeaway for this is, to paraphrase the investment brokers, past performance should not be taken as a guide to future expectations.


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## Bob Korves (Sep 20, 2019)

davidcarmichael said:


> I do agree and I have not been troubled by the less than stellar TIR of my Albrecht, though I have been troubled by occasional slippage probably due to the need for an overhaul.


Slippage with Albrecht chucks is almost always from contaminants in the chuck, or more likely from excessive oil in the chuck on the internal spindle threads.  They don't typically really need an "overhaul,", just a tear down, proper cleaning of the existing parts, and a proper reassembly using the correct methods for an Albrecht chuck.  The best reference online for going through an Albrecht chuck comes from our own "Mikey" on this forum, in this older (2009) step by step tear down and reassembly posting:


			Rebuilding an Albrecht Drill Chuck – MachinistBlog.com
		

Mikey's post is better than the Albrecht factory instructions and the others I have seen...


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