# Buying used Mill. Help me choose? Comments, experiences, shout-outs please!



## countryguy (Dec 7, 2014)

I have a local dealer a few hours whom I think is good on used machines as refurb, tested, with warranty  Even if only 30days. 

Gang,  I need something heavy!  rigid, versatile!! And long lasting.  I keep reading that Supermax is a work horse.  Like flavors of ice-cream, from my reading for a month, I an  seemingly hooked on this Supermax flavor ;-)   But am open to your comments on Hurco, EXLO ExClo? I see all over pretty reasonable.  BP's are simply out of my league $$wise for what I want.  Looked for months.  

There are two different types I've asked them to hold and I am heading down early this week w/ my Son.  A Supermax-YCM40 and a SuperMax-YCM..1?    I believe I am missing something on the model Id's listed on the unit that swivels.    The YCM-1 is R8 and can Swivel and the head rotates.  I do not know if the ram moves?  The YCM-40 is their 40 taper which I also seem to hear good things but the head is fixed I'm told.   And I think that's OK but have no real world experience hench the requet for feedback from ya'll on this fundamental machine design difference.

I  also have a Hurco on the "looksie list" for $1.4K cheaper and it seems feature/pound-4-pound on par with the SuperMax YCM1 swivel unit.   I think I want to have a mill as versatile as possible, but  like the 40taper unit for heavy, and rigid.

recall that we're just starting.  (....LOL.  We're Newbs but learning together over mistakes and advice from our HM'ers here)   The Mill will be used for the kids knife and axe projects. Cutting thru 1045, 4140, 5160, 1095...some S5 may be on the way.  All different types for various hard edge applications.   The usual "let's make this or that" will follow.   We have a furnace and will be learning to anneal for higher machinability as seemingly indicated in the material sheets were reading.  (another thread there later when we're ready). 

Pics of the two types I'm taking about above.   a big THANK YOU for any and all advice on this post.  CG.


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## JimDawson (Dec 7, 2014)

Given a choice between the two mills pictured, I would go with the YCM-1, because of the versatility.  You can move that head around in so many ways that you can create all kinds of compound angles with the work flat on the table.  I have done a lot of heavy work in tool steels, like D2 and A2, and also a lot of 4140 with an R-8 collet, running 2.5 and 3 inch cutters.  Probably the most material I ever removed with an R-8 machine was about 50 lbs off of about 120 lb block of 4150, that was a big pile of chips.  And yes, the ram moves in and out.

SuperMax is a fine machine as is the Hurco.  They may be made by the same company in Taiwan, I'm not sure.  But the ones I've had my hands on appeared to be identical.  There is nothing wrong with an Excello mill either.  One of the shops that I do some work for has 3 of them, so I have spent a bit of time on them.  My only complaint is that are more noisy than the BP clones due to the gear train in the head.


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## Karl_T (Dec 7, 2014)

You're looking at a bunch of fine machines. I lean the opposite of Jim's suggestion, the YCM40 is much more rigid. 40 years of machining has taught me to value a solid rigid machine above all other features. You can do angles with all manner of tilting devices.

In the same vane, taper 40 is a FAR better tool holder than R8. Remember it also means the spindle cartridge is larger in diameter and more rigid.

Karl


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## xalky (Dec 7, 2014)

It comes down to rigidity versus versatility, doesn't it? Given a choice between the two supermax machines, I think I'd lean towards the ycm40.  As already mentioned you can do angles with tilt tables and other various setups to get the angles that you need. 

I have a bridgeport series I with the tilt head and variable speed and I love it. Sometimes I wish it could hog out more metal than it's capable of, but then again I'm impatient. I personally hate to tilt the head on my bridgeport if I don't have to. I have a tilt table that I use for milling angles, I also have angle parrallels to angle things between the jaws in the vice. 

I think I'd get the heavier stiffer machine, price being equal.

Marcel


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## Pontiac Freak (Dec 7, 2014)

I have the YCM1 and it works great. One nice thing about it for me is the R8 tooling.  That seems to be the predominate size available on Craigslist in my area.  Makes it cheaper for me to run.


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## Gortonguy (Dec 7, 2014)

Seeing as rigidity has become the talk in this thread, I would suggest looking for a nice Gorton.  I have a late 60's vintage Gorton Mastermill 1-22 and it is so solidly built that my old Bridgeport felt like a wobbly toy in comparison.  My Groton can accurately and smoothly machine through large pieces of steel like they are made of butter and it has a NMTB 40 spindle taper so I can use very large tooling if needed to get the job done.  

The upside of Gorton mills is that everyone is looking at Bridgeports and they tend to gloss over other makes so the Gortons can usually be purchased for the price of a used import (I paid $900 for mine).  Most all 1-22s came with a 2 HP motor, built in powered table feed as well as a powered spindle feed and it is not uncommon for them to have powered knees as well.  It is also common for them to have variable speed heads which mine does and those heads also have a back gear to allow very slow spindle speeds if desired.  The tables are usually very long and wide (mine is 48" x 12") as well.  Another positive for me is that the mills were manufactured in my old hometown of Racine, WI back in the day when American made machine tools were top notch.

The downside of Gortons is that the parts supply for them is virtually nil since Gorton was sold in the '80s and the present owner of the brand is not interested in supporting the mills.  The good thing is that these mills are so overbuilt that if you find one in good condition it will last a hobbyist a lifetime so the parts situation is really not an issue.  The other downside for most hobbyists is the size and weight of the machine.  My 1-22 weighs in at about 3,500 lbs and it takes up a lot of room so you have to make sure you have the space and the ability to move the machine around. 

I encourage you to check out a Gorton and if you can find one, you will be amazed by the quality and solidity of these fine mills.


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## jeep534 (Dec 7, 2014)

30 or 40 taper is the only way to go in my humble opinion..   I have both and no R8 

archie


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## Karl_T (Dec 7, 2014)

I think the OP is down to just a couple machines to choose between. Still I'll second the Gorton. Here's another fine machine that's little known
http://www.wotol.com/1-cincinnati-t...lling-ma/second-hand-machinery/prod_id/677196


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## countryguy (Dec 7, 2014)

*Gorton was on the list.  Buying used Mill. Help me choose? Comments, experiences, shout-outs please!*

Pretty cool you guys are reading my mind.  I had Gorton higher on the list too but they are pretty scarce up here in MI.  The 8D I went to see had the proprietary collet and only the 1/2".  another 8D was in WI ( just too far!) AND NO 8.5d'S were found w/ resonable prices for older screws, no DRO's etc.  The only 9 (or was it 9 1/2D) was just too beat up.  
   So , as much as I really liked the Gortons,  they are (humbly put) just not for a real Newbie and Kid.  But I did think highly of them.   

THANKS everyone for the posts.


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