# Your ''expectations ''  of your first vertical  mill  purchase



## smallfly (Nov 13, 2014)

hopeing  this  will answer or  raise some new  questions  that have been  asked many many  times on  this  forum.  iam   not  a real machinist -that  is  why  i  have  soooo  many  ques. still  to  be  answered. 
     FIRST-- ask urself what am i planning to do with my ''new to me'' vertical  mill??
             this  really is a very important  question. iam sure as hell not makin parts  for  nasa--they got  no  money to  pay  me.  ok  answered  that  one.

     i  want  to  bore  holes in  metal  that r  perfectly  straight  up  and  down both  directions. well i  can  do this                       
assuming  the spindle  and  associated bearings are in  pretty  good shape  i  can  do this   and  ''retram''  the mill if  needed to  make  them straight - assuming i  buy a mill that  trams  in  both  directions.  NOTE-  u  cannot  do  this  with  all  vertical  mills.

                        there is  going  to  be  a few  ASSUMPTIONS  HERE  and  some  missspelled  words  too. please  bear  with  me.     

         nqw - i want  to  cut  a  straight  groove  in   metal--i  can  do  this  too assumuming  the  ''y''  axis  and  assoc.  parts under  the  table  ain't  worn  too much  hopefully  table will  move in  straight   line. i  better  check  this  too. 

        now  i  want  to  cut  a  second  groove 90 degrees  to that   first  groove  i  just cut  a  minute  ago.  i  can  do  that  too  assuming  the  x  axis  will move  90  degrees  to  the  y  axis. does  it ???? i  really  am  not  sure.  do  i  have  a  way  of measuring this  before  i  lay  down  my  hard  earned  cash  for  my new  mill?? i  might wanny check  this  out.  tramming the  mill all day  ain't  gonna  change this.  mabey  i  was thinkin  of  making  my  own  machinists squares  from  scratch. just  easier    for  me to  do  this  if  things  run  90  degrees  to  each  axis.  trammin  the   quill  ain't  gonna fix  this  either. 

    now   i want  to  drill a deep  hole  in a thick piece of  metal. well first i wil use that   short  drill bit i  have and  drill the hole  as  deep as i can. then  i  plan  to  lower the  table   and  use  that  long  drill in  my  tool  box to complete  the  hole all the  way  to  the bottom .  now  did the second  hole  drill exactly on  center with   first hole ?? --did  the table  and  workpiece move  away  from  or  nearer  the quill in  either  direction when  i  lowered the  table and   are  the  ''ways'' upon  which  the  table  is  guided  in  the ''z'' or  vertical axis  in  good  shape?? i  might  wanna  look  at  this  also. how  will i  measure  this  before i  purchase  this  new  vertical mill??   tramming  the  mill each  time  i raise  and  lower  this  table  will  compensate  for  a   pair  of  ''worn'' ways ''  but this  sure  is  gonna  get  real  tiresome    after a  while. i better  find  a  way to  check  this  before i  make  this  purchase. 

  all i  really  want to do is  make   stuff and  enjoy  my  purchase--i sure as  hell don't  want  to  ''retram  that    quill each time  i  move  the  table  and   vise  up  and  down.  
  or  each  time  i  move the  work piece up  and  down  in  the  vise.

      ok--i  hope i  raised some  interest  here --these are  MY  IDEAS   of  questions u  should  ask  urself  --before u  ''lay  ur  money  down'' 

      let's  hear  what  other's have  too  say bout  this.

          i  will get  off my  ''soapbox'' now --just  sayin. please be  kind.

             re  steve  in  montana --ps  where it  is  now  10  degree below   

                  zero---u got  propane??


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## JimDawson (Nov 13, 2014)

OK, I moved it for you.)


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## herbet999 (Nov 13, 2014)

Maybe it's just me, but I buy the tools to enjoy them, learn about machining, and maybe make some useful/cool stuff along the way.


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## Andre (Nov 13, 2014)

I'll try and answer this the best I can, in the order written;



> i want to bore holes in metal that r perfectly straight up and down both directions. well i can do this



Basically, yes. You might have to learn a bit about fixturing parts on an angle plate or box parallel for super accurate work though. Talking in tenths though (.0001)



> assuming the spindle and associated bearings are in pretty good shape i can do this and ''retram'' the mill if needed to make them straight - assuming i buy a mill that trams in both directions.




The bearings are bad in my mill, I can still tram it and do accurate work. All mills can be trammed.




> NOTE- u cannot do this with all vertical mills.




Yes you can, I don't know of any vertical mills that can't be trammed in any way. Maybe on a '51 or '52 BP with that round ram J head thing, but you can shim the turret to tram it.




> i want to cut a straight groove in metal--i can do this too assumuming the ''y'' axis and assoc. parts under the table ain't worn too much hopefully table will move in straight line. i better check this too.




Unless you have some very severe oddball wear on the mill (unrealistic even in a abused machine) it will still cut a straight line. Don't worry 'bout that.




> now i want to cut a second groove 90 degrees to that first groove i just cut a minute ago. i can do that too assuming the x axis will move 90 degrees to the y axis. does it ???? i really am not sure. do i have a way of measuring this before i lay down my hard earned cash for my new mill?? i might wanny check this out. tramming the mill all day ain't gonna change this. mabey i was thinkin of making my own machinists squares from scratch. just easier for me to do this if things run 90 degrees to each axis. trammin the quill ain't gonna fix this either.



Unless you have one of those grizzly universal vertical mills (where the X axis can spin like a swivel vise) the X axis till always move perpendicular (at a right angle) to the Y axis.

Making a machinist square by relying on the perpendicularity of the X and Y axis of the mill is a bad thing. Not because they are not square to each other (they are) but for that you'd be using the side of the endmill to cut the precision surfaces of the square. When cutting on the side of the endmill the endmill bends or deflects away from the work just a little, and you wouldn't end up with a precision square. Rough mill it them have it surface ground. 



> now i want to drill a deep hole in a thick piece of metal. well first i wil use that short drill bit i have and drill the hole as deep as i can. then i plan to lower the table and use that long drill in my tool box to complete the hole all the way to the bottom . now did the second hole drill exactly on center with first hole ?? --did the table and workpiece move away from or nearer the quill in either direction when i lowered the table and are the ''ways'' upon which the table is guided in the ''z'' or vertical axis in good shape?? i might wanna look at this also. how will i measure this before i purchase this new vertical mill?? tramming the mill each time i raise and lower this table will compensate for a pair of ''worn'' ways '' but this sure is gonna get real tiresome after a while. i better find a way to check this before i make this purchase.




If you have a knee mill (ie. Bridgeport) don't worry about it. The table will not have to be trammed every time you move the knee. 
If you are drilling and need to lower the knee, DO NOT touch the knee lock, then activating the lock the knee swings a little to the left. Not a fault or wear in the machine, just the design. Don't worry about it.



> all i really want to do is make stuff and enjoy my purchase--i sure as hell don't want to ''retram that quill each time i move the table and vise up and down.
> or each time i move the work piece up and down in the vise.




You don't have to re tram the head every time you move the table in any direction, including up and down. I tram mine every 6 months, don't sweat it.

Hopefully I have answered your question well enough.

Please keep in mind typos and grammatical errors in your posts, it makes it harder to read and my typo alert goes wonkers )

Take care,

Andre


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## Hardly (Nov 13, 2014)

I buy tools and machinery that I need to fix or fabricate the things that I want, or like, or need to repair. I can't stand to pay someone to do something that I can do or learn to do. I also find that my tools and machinery are like old friends that I enjoy being around and using. They are always there when I need them and have saved me a lot of money over the years.


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