# Shop Lighting



## papermaker (Sep 12, 2013)

I use 4' fluorescent tube shop lights in my unheated garage for lighting. The fixtures don't seem to last very long. I was wondering if someone could explain why? What is a better product to use.


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## Sharky (Sep 12, 2013)

*Re: Sop Lighting*

I feel your frustration, seems like I'm changing out 4' shop light fixtures more often than changing the bulbs.

Today's 4' shop lights don't last like the old ones.  The biggest thing to remember about the fluorescent lights is that the ballast doesn't like cold and does not like to be turned on and off frequently.  I have 1 that stays lit in my shop 24 hours a day and that fixture lasts forever compared to the ones that get turned on/off.  I haven't tried the newer T-8 type fixtures, so I don't know if they are better. 

 I am seeing more LED bulbs and conversions for the 4' shop lights but they haven't come down to my price range yet.  The cheapest conversions are still $75.00 per bulb last time I looked, but as the price comes down that may be something to look for.  LED's don't have a problem with cold temps and draw no power by comparison.  

Maybe someone here has a good source for LED shop lights?


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## itsme_Bernie (Sep 12, 2013)

I use painter's lights pointed directly at machines I am working on.  I use power strips with switches to turn them on instead of going to each fixture.

I then got these remote switches to turn on the power strips, which I hang by the room light switch.  


Bernie


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## Richard King (Sep 12, 2013)

My neighbor is a Master Electrician and works in new buildings construction and i was telling him my fluorescent lights were always going out only after a 100 hours or so.  He told me I probably did not wire it right.  Something about the black and while wires reversed...I am no electrician and he fixed it for me.  He also told me to buy the ballast starters from Grainger and not home Depot.  Rich


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## Bill C. (Sep 12, 2013)

papermaker said:


> I use 4' fluorescent tube shop lights in my unheated garage for lighting. The fixtures don't seem to last very long. I was wondering if someone could explain why? What is a better product to use.



Between the temperature and humidity changes we had the engery saving light bulbs burn out early too.  Like someone else pointed out the lights that stay on last the longest.


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## samthedog (Sep 12, 2013)

Forget fluorescent lights in non-heated garages. I found that they had trouble starting and burned out early before I insulated and heated my garage. Now they turn on instantly in winter and I have had the same tubes for nearly 2 years. I don't know why the temperature affects them but they struggled badly in our Norwegian winters.

Paul.


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## R2.0 (Sep 12, 2013)

Hmmm...LED rope lighting is about $2/ft.  I'm wondering if one could gut a fluorescent fixture of the ballast and lamp holders and string 8' +/- of rope lighting in place of the tubes.  Cheaper than $31 for drop-in T8 LED replacements at $31 ea.


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## thomas s (Sep 12, 2013)

R2.0 said:


> Hmmm...LED rope lighting is about $2/ft.  I'm wondering if one could gut a fluorescent fixture of the ballast and lamp holders and string 8' +/- of rope lighting in place of the tubes.  Cheaper than $31 for drop-in T8 LED replacements at $31 ea.



I replaced shop lights about 4 years ago with t-8 4' fixtures very happy with them


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## Hawkeye (Sep 12, 2013)

If you're still using T12 fluorescents, they could be magnetic ballasts, which don't do well in cold. Around here, you can't buy a new fluorescent fixture with magnetic ballasts (or T12, for that matter). They all have electronic ballasts, which use a bit less power and work better in cold.


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## papermaker (Sep 14, 2013)

I think that I will start replacing the fixtures with the T-8 fixtures.  I have about fourteen 4 footers and about a third of those are dead.


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## gdsenn (Sep 15, 2013)

I have 12 4' fluorescent fixtures in my 24' X 30' shop, they have been in for about 20 years and I have never replaced any lamps.
It maybe because my shop is always heated, in the winter only to about 40 deg. unless I am working out there.


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## hvontres (Dec 29, 2013)

papermaker said:


> I think that I will start replacing the fixtures with the T-8 fixtures.  I have about fourteen 4 footers and about a third of those are dead.



Instead of replacing the whole fixture, just get replacement T-8 Ballasts. The sockets are the same as the ones for the T-12 bulbs.


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## rdhem2 (Dec 30, 2013)

Well Gents, you can thank our hero in the whitehouse because it won't be long and you will replace your T12's or live in the dark.   He has obsoleted them to SAVE YOU, energy and pollution.  One major reason they do not do well in low temp situations is because they contain mercury.  The mercury condenses into droplets when the lamp is off and cold.  Ever notice how they swirl and flash when you turn them on?  Then after they warm up they calm down and get brighter because the mercury has ionized again and remixed with the other gasses in the lamp.  Tubes with GREEN ends are a version without mercury but are not as color corrected or efficient.  You really can't tell unless you have light meters and other test devices.

T8 and T5 lamps are the wave of the future.  They show a lot of promise but only time will tell if they are a good replacement.

Your shop lights burn out because you buy them at the home fix-it place and they are junk.  Cheap and junk. If you spend more and buy a UL approved, quality name fixture your burn outs will all but disappear.  Defective light fixtures will show themselves in the first 30 to 60 days while under warranty, and if contractor installed labor is free too.  Properly maintained commercial lighting works like this.  In four years of average burn time, you re-lamp every fixture in the place and clean the fixtures. Unless the light is in a critical location, if it quits working you fix it on the four year maintenance cycle.  This way you are not messing around all the time.  After you re-lamp you will be amazed at the difference in lighting level.  Remember, 4 years or 25% drop in lighting level.  It's what the pros recommend.

Lights that are not switched do last longer.  Some more than others.  Why?  Because you are not shocking the lamp filament by going from room temperature to brilliantly white hot in nano seconds.  When you buy lamps don't buy the grocery store specials and the bargain packages.  Buy lamps with the highest voltage rating you can find.  Severe service, rough duty, traffic signal, are other key terms to look for.  Reason: In these type lamps, the part that does all the work, the filament, is made from a larger gauge wire and has more supports so it does not droop, sag, and stretch while it its white hot almost molten state.  Hence-longer life.

On the above post, yes in some cases you may do as he suggests.  Watch the height of the lamp holders.  Florescent lamps must have a grounded metal reflector mounted within a certain distance away from the full length of the lamp.  How far?  I am not sure but I do know that if the distance is too far you will get short lamp life or they won't work at all.  The fixtures I am around are built correctly from the get go so I never have to think about this detail.


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## Gary Max (Dec 30, 2013)

The T-8's I bought are still junk---- the fixtures are lasting about two years. I am going to give LED's a try.


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## usrjcro11 (Jan 3, 2014)

Try some t5 lights, neighbor built a new farm shop and put these in wow what a difference. Am thinking about changeling my t4 over my lathe and milling machine out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## valleyboy101 (Jan 3, 2014)

My uncle who was an electrician used flourescents in his unheated shop.  However he used HO (High Output) ballasts - they would start and buy at normal brightness even at -30F .  I'm not sure that they are still available or if the Energy Police have banned them due to lack of efficiency.  I have T8s in my heated shop and they are OK but don't plan on listening to FM radio with them turned on.
Michael


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## jim18655 (Jan 4, 2014)

Make sure you get the exact replacement lamp for your fixture by checking the lamp type on the ballast. Many of the cheap shop lights require a specific type lamp that isn't readily available. Some won't even start with energy efficient lamps installed. 
If you replace the ballast with a newer  electronic ballast you will probably need to check the wiring diagram on the ballast. Some require the lamps to have both of the pins connected to one wire from the ballast or lamp life will be less. A jumper wire across the socket will do. Also be careful when replacing sockets in older fixtures since all bi-pin sockets are not the same now.


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## markknx (Jan 4, 2014)

how about incandescent or halogen for your non-heated shops. they will give off some heat to help keep you warmer.


Mark


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## Terrywerm (Jan 4, 2014)

I have one fluorescent fixture left, it uses T-8 bulbs, and is a cold weather model. It is out in my garage. Good place for it too. 

I only have 5 CFLs left in my house. I used to have 6, but one of them nearly started the house on fire when it decided to go south. No more CFLs. 

Just bought 8 60W equivalent soft white LEDs for $8.00 each, and a couple of daylight ones as well. Wife likes them, I like them, they consume 9.5 watts each and don't require hazmat disposal, plus they have a 10 year warranty. Estimated yearly energy cost per bulb at 3 hours per day is $1.14 (at $0.11 per kWh). If I install eight bulb fixtures in my shop (12' x 14') it should be pretty well lit. The average of 3 hours per day in the shop sounds about right for me,   maybe even a bit high. So, total cost to light my shop 3 hours per day for 10 years, plus the cost of the bulbs comes to a grand total of $72.96    Add in $25 for the cost of electrical boxes, wire, and porcelain light fixtures and I'm still below $100 for a ten year period.

I'll bet you guys can't guess what I am going to put in my shop??


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## JohnAspinall (Jan 4, 2014)

Richard King said:


> ...  He also told me to buy the ballast starters from Grainger and not home Depot.  Rich



+1 on this.  I bought the el-cheapo Home Depot 4' T8 fixtures, and while the sheet metal is fine for my purposes, the ballasts they came with were absolute crapola.
Of 14 fixtures, 11 failed in two years.  I've been replacing the ballasts as they fail, with these:
http://www.usalight.com/2-Lamp-4-T8-Fluorescent-Ballast-B2x32-120-277-p/b2x32-120-277-e.htm

While that's still an "economy" ballast, I haven't had any fail in 2-3 more years of use.


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## DianneB (Jan 4, 2014)

markknx said:


> how about incandescent .... they will give off some heat to help keep you warmer.



They are now GONE! As of 1 January it is illegal for stores to reorder incandescent lamps so when the present stock is gone, that's it - we will have to buy them from China!

I guess the lamp makers weren't making enough money on the lowly light bulb (which contained NO hazardous material whatsoever and don't burst into flames!). I have 9 100W incandescent lamps over the work area in my shop and, frankly, I APPRECIATE the heat when it is -40 outside! I also have 2 4-foot fluorescent fixtures that are almost 40 years old and still work fine - think I have changed a total of 2 tubes in that time. They are poky to start in the cold but they get there eventually.

When my incandescent bulbs start to die and I can't get any more I guess I will look at halogen - its about the only thing I know of that will start in the deep cold, doesn't cost two arms and a leg, and wont set the place on fire when it fails. (I wont even allow compact fluorescent lamps in my house any more, not after one filled the bathroom with putrid smoke!)


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## Tony Wells (Jan 4, 2014)

Not just banned from mfg here, Dianne. Banned from sale. If you have a source on 100w incandescent bulbs, and wish to continue to use them, you should buy all you can. Soon, only specialty incan bulbs will be sold, such as appliance lamps. At some point, I suspect those also are scheduled for ban.

I believe Australia is ahead of the US schedule on this.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 4, 2014)

I've slowly been building LED lights for my "workshop" (one end of a single bay garage), mostly because the output from the single 20W CFL in there in winter is almost non-existent. They're pretty easy to put together and don't cost much. I would struggle to match the output of the large fluorescent fixtures you're talking about, but because I can put my light bars where they're needed and all of the light is focused downwards (the workshop is one place LEDs have an advantage over other types of lighting), they're very efficient. No warm up time required, in fact they're more efficient the colder it gets, and mine have worked fine from -13C or so last night (picking up bits of metal was not fun) to 30C or above for hours on end.

You can get direct replacement LED "tubes", LEDsupply started stocking them I believe, and Elara strips are another option. I'd avoid the LED string lighting, the colour rendition is pretty terrible and failure rates are very high on the cheap stuff.


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## markknx (Jan 4, 2014)

So for those of you in the states I say again why not incandescent? Yes I no they can right now not be reordered by stores nor can they be made here. But ask yourself why, I think we need to demand that they are reinstated. Really mercury filled bulbs are better for us.


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## flutedchamber (Jan 13, 2014)

I have had fantastic luck with units I bought from Walmart of all places.  About $10 each.  Here's a brief description from their page.

 Lights of America 4' Solid State Shop Light, White
4' fixture with electronic ballast
Safe, steady and consistent operation
Runs with T8 lamps

I've had them almost 11 years and only had to replace one because the electronic ballast went south.  Light output with the T8 bulbs are very good.  My shop is between 58 and 75 degrees year round, and the lights are switched on and off.  The unheated area of the building also uses the lights and down to zero degrees they operate.  I'm running 49 of them total.

Save your sales slip when you buy the lights.  Take them home and test them with bulbs.  About one out of 10 don't work right from the factory.  I had one that the components to the electronic ballast were just put inside the ballast shell and never soldered.  I soldered them in place and the light worked fine.

A plus is they have nice long cords on them.


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## X-RAY (Jan 18, 2014)

the above post is good to know, as thats what i have over my workbench, and plan to add more to my basement "shop". i splurged for the stainless one though,kinda dumb cause once in place you cant see how pretty it is.


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## furpo (Jan 18, 2014)

terrywerm said:


> I have one fluorescent fixture left, it uses T-8 bulbs, and is a cold weather model. It is out in my garage. Good place for it too.
> 
> I only have 5 CFLs left in my house. I used to have 6, but one of them nearly started the house on fire when it decided to go south. No more CFLs.
> 
> ...



Where are you finding the LEDs for $8.00?
Thanks

Don't buy T8 ballast at the cut rate lumber yards. Electrical suppliers charge less.
The cut rate ballast create a great deal of electrical noise.  Will block out the signal on all X10 or home automation device you have .


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## msilhunter1 (Jan 18, 2014)

I changed all of mine to electronic ballast. I don't have that problem anymore.


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## Terrywerm (Jan 18, 2014)

Home Depot had the soft white and warm white LEDs on sale for $7.97 each.    Daylight LEDs however were $13 each.   All were Cree brand.  Don't know if they are still on sale or not. I assume that the regular price must be $13.  If they last as long as the manufacturer claims, even $13 isn't a bad price.

I have installed the daylight bulbs in just a couple of places, such as the garage. They put out a bluish white light, reminiscent of fluorescent lamps. The soft white LEDs have met with everyone's approval at my house. They come on instantly and put out a soft light like incandescent bulbs, but are slightly brighter than the CFLs they replaced.


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## flutedchamber (Feb 5, 2014)

msilhunter1 said:


> I changed all of mine to electronic ballast. I don't have that problem anymore.



The Lights of America assemblies use electronic ballasts.


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