# 109.21280 Craftsman Lathe



## bama7 (May 18, 2016)

I just got a 109.21280 Craftsman Lathe in the Jacksonville, Fl area this morning. After a little research it seems this little rascal is relatively rare.  It still has some of it's gold paint and came with a three and four jaw chuck.  The four jaw still has it's original box with instruction sheet.  It also came with an attachment that fits on the cross slide. A grinder maybe?  Can anyone tell me something about the rarity of it and possible value, depending upon it's condition of course.


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## David VanNorman (May 19, 2016)

The grinder looking thing  is a mica under cutting set up. It is used for work on armatures like starters and generators. It cuts out the mica between the segments. It is a handy thing to have.


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## wa5cab (May 19, 2016)

Well, well, well, one finally showed up "in the flesh".  

The 109.21280 never seems to have made it into any Sears Power Tools catalog.  I just made a new quick run-through from 1956 through 1973.  So original selling price is not known.  And there is no track record for guessing at current value.  It is thought that it might be roughly equivalent in capability to the Atlas built Craftsman 101.07301.  It has been stated in various places on the Internet that it was made sometime in the 1960's, presumably after production of the 109.21270 ceased after about 1961.  

Can you confirm that it has sleeve spindle bearings but a 1"-10 spindle nose thread?  And you might add photos showing the change gears and, if it has one, the countershaft assembly, and a view of the inside of the headstock.

The motor driven gadget in your seventh photo is a mica undercutter for DC motor and generator rework.  It looks quite similar to the one offered by Atlas.


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## VSAncona (May 19, 2016)

Very cool. You found the white whale of Craftsman lathes.


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## bama7 (May 19, 2016)

wa5cab here is what I found. The 4 jaw still has the receipt in the box and was bought on 16 Feb 1967 by a man in Cocoa, Fl for $53.21.  Seems extremely high for 1967, but who knows, I was in Japan. I won't attempted to remove the chuck, again, until I get it in the shop, shed. The ID of the 3 jaw is 1.0075".  ID of the Spindle gear end is .5100". It must have a "bushing", because it would have to be a small width "bearing" to fit in the space allowed in the headstock bed end. I took a picture of the threads in the 4 jaw. Just looked up the part number on the 4 jaw and it says it is a 1" x 10tpi.


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## David VanNorman (May 19, 2016)

I believe this was made by B&B . The planetary back gears set up is what I see.


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## bama7 (May 19, 2016)

David VanNorman said:


> I believe this was made by B&B . The planetary back gears set up is what I see.


I don't know anything about it.  What or who is a B&B?


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## wa5cab (May 19, 2016)

The "109" in the Model Number is or at least was for AA.  Their earlier 6" machines were much lighter having 1/2"-20 then 1/2"-24 spindle threads.


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## wa5cab (May 19, 2016)

bama7,

Yes, $53 does seem high for that year.  Sears didn't publish a 1967 Power Tools catalog but the price for the 4" dia. 1"-10 thread 4-jaw chuck in their 1966 catalog is only $24.99.

When you get the chuck off of the spindle, you should be able to see what type bearing or bushing is present.  The earlier 109's all had bushings.

From the rear view photo, it appears that the back gear design is the same general type.  And the change gears look the same (the earlier ones were interchangeable with the Atlas 6" models).  

Is there a countershaft not visible in your photos or does the motor have a 3-step pulley?


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## bama7 (May 19, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> bama7,
> 
> Yes, $53 does seem high for that year.  Sears didn't publish a 1967 Power Tools catalog but the price for the 4" dia. 1"-10 thread 4-jaw chuck in their 1966 catalog is only $24.99.
> 
> ...


There is no counter shaft.  The motor has a 3 step pulley. I wonder if the receipt is for the mica under cutter.  It is a Sears receipt.  I will take a closer look.  Here is a copy of the receipt.  I am not sure what it is for.  It was in the box with the 4 jaw chuck.


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## David VanNorman (May 20, 2016)

I was wrong it is as someone else said AA. I new it was 2 letters. My friend had one . That was almost twenty years ago. The thing that the step pulley is built with is a planetary gear that will give you a slow set of speeds. I forget the way it works .


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## wa5cab (May 20, 2016)

For operation of the back gears (IN or OUT), download the manual on AA lathe 109.20630.  About half way down the right hand column of Page 5, you will find the instructions.  It is possible that the locking pin referred to might be in that assembly with the slotted head screw visible in your third and fourth photos instead of sticking through the tailstock side of the headstock.  If so, there will be a hole in the OD of the gear housing (the wide disk next to the spindle cone pulley.  In any case, be sure that you follow the lubrication instructions before you run the machine under power.


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## Andre (May 20, 2016)

One of those in mint condition was on ebay recently. I forget the actual price but I think it was over 1,000. It didn't last long.


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## bama7 (May 20, 2016)

I saw one with an asking price of  $1800.  I messaged the guy to see if he had any offers. His answer was no.  His looked to be in great condition. I would not want nearly that much.


Andre said:


> One of those in mint condition was on ebay recently. I forget the actual price but I think it was over 1,000. It didn't last long.


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## MrFixIt (May 24, 2016)

bama7 said:


> I saw one with an asking price of  $1800.  I messaged the guy to see if he had any offers. His answer was no.  His looked to be in great condition. I would not want nearly that much.



You just got it and getting rid of it already?


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## bama7 (May 24, 2016)

MrFixIt said:


> You just got it and getting rid of it already?


I have slightly more projects than I probably have the time to complete.  I am STILL working on a South Bend Model A 9" lathe.  I like redoing stuff more than using it.  I kinda figured if it were collectable/rare, it would be better off in someones hands other than mine and maybe they would appreciate it more.  I took it apart and cleaned and oiled it Saturday and Monday.  If it sells then great and if it doesn't it doesn't take too much room.  I haven't had anyone show any interest here so far and not really up to date on what is permissible on this site and what is not.  And I am sure shipping one would be expensive.  And one of the most important things, how much should I ask?  Is $500 as is where is to much?


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## wa5cab (May 24, 2016)

For trying to sell it on this site, you should list it in Classifieds.  It is OK to mention here that it's listed.  And it is OK to discuss what it's worth.  But it is not OK to actually try to sell it in this thread or this forum.

As far as what it is worth, my guess is that $500 is too high.  And you might do better to list the mica undercutter separately.  That is a specialty tool that most will not have a use for.  And before you try to sell it, you probably need to figure out which other machines it will bit, if any.  Assuming that it actually fits your cross slide dovetail, you could start by stating the width and height of the dovetail on this machine.


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## bama7 (May 24, 2016)

Thanks for the advice.  More research needed on my part then.


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## bama7 (May 26, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> For trying to sell it on this site, you should list it in Classifieds.  It is OK to mention here that it's listed.  And it is OK to discuss what it's worth.  But it is not OK to actually try to sell it in this thread or this forum.
> 
> As far as what it is worth, my guess is that $500 is too high.  And you might do better to list the mica undercutter separately.  That is a specialty tool that most will not have a use for.  And before you try to sell it, you probably need to figure out which other machines it will bit, if any.  Assuming that it actually fits your cross slide dovetail, you could start by stating the width and height of the dovetail on this machine.


From what little I could find the Mica Undercutter is probable an M6-510A.  It can be used on 6", 10" and 12" Craftsman lathes.  Atlas, of course has the same physical appearance.  The receipt may be for the undercutter.  One catalogue I saw had one listed for about the same price.  One new complete kit in the box is listed on ebay for $249 plus shipping.  Where do people come up with such numbers?  Like one guy stated some where in my past reading: " the company should give you the lathe for free, because the tooling required to use it cost more than the lathe."  I think I concur.  Thanks for the help guys.


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## wa5cab (May 27, 2016)

The M6-510A is too short for the 10" and 12".  Plus it won't fit the dovetail on the larger carriages.  For the larger machines, you need the 510A.

In the 1930's to 50's, if you bought all of the available accessories, you would probably spend about as much on them as on the lathe.  Today, you'll probably send 2X to 3X.


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## bama7 (May 27, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> The M6-510A is too short for the 10" and 12".  Plus it won't fit the dovetail on the larger carriages.  For the larger machines, you need the 510A.
> 
> In the 1930's to 50's, if you bought all of the available accessories, you would probably spend about as much on them as on the lathe.  Today, you'll probably send 2X to 3X.


When I was reading the old ads for accessories I did not see a difference in the size lathe it fit and I thought they had the same part numbers.  I measured the slide on the cutter and it is approximately 1 3/4" x 2" and the cutter fits as it should.  I don't know the slide dimensions on any of the other size lathes.   I guess I need to learn to comprehend what I am reading.  Thanks again.


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## wa5cab (May 28, 2016)

Some of the parts are the same but the base and the motor base are different.


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## The Liberal Arts Garage (May 31, 2016)

Last seen offerred @ $2500.  Probably worth it if you care...... BLJHB.


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## bama7 (May 31, 2016)

The Liberal Arts Garage said:


> Last seen offerred @ $2500.  Probably worth it if you care...... BLJHB.


I don't understand what you are saying.  Will you please explain?


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## wa5cab (Jun 1, 2016)

I think that was a tongue-in-cheek comment on the fact that just about any two or three accessories will cost as much as the lathe you want them for.


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## bama7 (Jun 1, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> I think that was a tongue-in-cheek comment on the fact that just about any two or three accessories will cost as much as the lathe you want them for.



And all those comedians are out of work?


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## bama7 (Jun 1, 2016)

I got her cleaned, lubed, and mounted to some plywood for now.  I was a little concerned about changing the speeds by moving the belt when the motor was in a fixed position.  I borrowed an idea from someone on the net.  I mounted the motor on a hinged board and it works great!  Thanks to who ever that was.


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## wa5cab (Jun 3, 2016)

One comment on the hinged mount - to complete it, you need to temporarily remove the motor for access.  Match-drill a hole through the hinged board and the top of the bench to fit say a 3/8" bolt.  With the bit still the holes and spinning, tilt the drill towards the lathe about 45 deg.  Put a flat washer onto a long enough bolt and drop the bolt through the hole.  Put another flat washer on the bolt followed by a nylok nut.  Reinstall the motor and belt.  Tighten the nut enough to put add a slight tension to the belt.

The reason is that belt tension will vary with the torque being required to turn the spindle.  As the torque requirement changes, the motor will tend to "climb" the belt.  An interrupted cut such as would be encountered if you were rounding a piece of square stock will cause the motor to bounce repeatedly.and the spindle RPM to vary.  It doesn't do anything for convenience when you need to change spindle speeds but it's a necessary evil.


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## The Liberal Arts Garage (Jun 3, 2016)

The Liberal Arts Garage said:


> Last seen offerred @ $2500.  Probably worth it if you care...... BLJHB.


Af


The Liberal Arts Garage said:


> Last seen offerred @ $2500.  Probably worth it if you care...... BLJHB.


After hearing about this " Unicorn " for years, its value


The Liberal Arts Garage said:


> Last seen offerred @ $2500.  Probably worth it if you care...... BLJHB.


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## bama7 (Jun 3, 2016)

The Liberal Arts Garage said:


> Af
> 
> After hearing about this " Unicorn " for years, its value


Maybe Santa Claus will bring you one if you are really, really good.


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## bama7 (Jun 24, 2016)

I posted the lathe this morning on craigslist without the undercutter and it was sold by 2 pm.  Nice young guy got it.  I hope he gets many years of use out of it.  I posted the undercutter on ebay last night.


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