# Positioning Pm932 And Pm1236



## 65Cobra427SC (Jun 17, 2015)

My PM932 is in the crate waiting for me to finish a couple things in the room where it and the PM1236 will go. And my PM1236 hasn't arrived yet... plus I've never used a mill or lathe before... so I could (really) use some help on how to position them along the same wall. I attached a drawing showing dimensions of the wall and how I initially intended to place them. But now that I finished the drawing, I'm having second thoughts and could use some advice.

One issue is how the ceiling drops towards the left side of the wall. Not that the PM932 won't fit under the dropped ceiling, but there would only be 1" of clearance... and that's assuming everything is perfect so I decided not to chance it. So I updated the drawing to show it just to the right of the dropped ceiling and now think I should swap their positions.

I can do anything at this point but could use some opinions. For example, since the table on the mill moves towards the left/right, I'm not sure how much clearance I need between it and a wall... or the lathe. Also with the lathe on the left, even though there is more than enough room under the dropped ceiling I can't put it too close to the left corner so I can feed metal though the bore.


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## Franko (Jun 17, 2015)

I'd switch sides. There may be times when you need to run a long tube or rod through the spindle bore of the lathe. 
I've also found that there are times when I want to stand on the right side of my mill to see what I'm cutting.


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## 65Cobra427SC (Jun 17, 2015)

Thanks Franko. I was leaning in that direction and that makes sense.

For anyone with a PM932 mill, I don't know how much work space I'll need to the left and right of the mill. Could someone please give me the measurement from the center of the mill... i.e. center of stand or crossfeed handle? Once I have this, I can plot exactly where the machines will go which will tell me where to install the electrical outlets. Thanks.


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## Smudgemo (Jun 17, 2015)

I have that same sort of drop on the left side, so I put the lathe on the left and the mill on the right.  The mill is angled 45* in the direction of the lathe, and it's far enough from the wall that the table doesn't hit full left.  I also have more space to walk past it (unless I leave the table centered or to the right.)  No downside found yet.
-Ryan


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## 65Cobra427SC (Jun 17, 2015)

Thanks... smudgemo? That's unique!

Since the logical thing to do is put the lathe on the left and the mill on the right, I updated the drawing and removed anything unnecessary. With 3 feet of space on the left side of the lathe, I would have 8 feet of room on the right side for the mill. I would think 8 feet would be enough, but can someone confirm this since I have no clue? If anyone thinks I should space this differently, please let me know. Thanks.

06-19-2015 Updated drawing to reflect changes described in later post.




View attachment 105876


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## tmarks11 (Jun 17, 2015)

Left side of the lathe: just enough room for the cover to open and for you to get in there to change gears, etc. 3' is way more than minimum needed.  I get away with 18-24".

Between mill and lathe.  Move the table all the way to the left.  Now think about how much room you would need if you were standing on the left side of the machine during operation without being squished between the table and the lathe.  Probably the spacing you have shown is good... looks like with the table all the way left you would have 20-24".  Same thought process for the right hand side of the mill.  Sometimes during cutting it is better to stand on the side of the table instead of the front of the mill... out of the arc of hot blue chips.


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## Franko (Jun 17, 2015)

I wouldn't put the lathe any closer to the wall on the left. Some time you will want to put a long piece of stock through the spindle bore.

You could probably put the lathe and mill closer together. I was pressed for space, but I had my mill so close that the table was almost even with the tailstock crank when cranked all the way left. It was never in the way, and the mill table was a little in front of the lathe so long pieces would clear the lathe. The mill table is rarely cranked to full left or right and lives pretty much in the middle most of the time.

Having enough room on the crank side of the mill so you can look down the bed without tilting your head can be useful.


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## 65Cobra427SC (Jun 17, 2015)

For the lathe... it's 3 feet from the left wall for exactly what Franko said. But if I want to feed a 1" OD x 36" long shaft, can't I just feed it from the right by going through the chuck? If not then what's the maximum length I can feed from the right side?

For the mill... I only showed it in the middle of that space because I didn't know any better (ha, at least I'm honest) and figured 8' was more than enough. The (useless) manual says the tables longitudinal travel is 560mm (22") which I think is the total travel. So does the table travel more to one side than the other, or does it extend the same distance on both sides?


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## JimDawson (Jun 17, 2015)

65Cobra427SC said:


> For the lathe... it's 3 feet from the left wall for exactly what Franko said. But if I want to feed a 1" OD x 36" long shaft, can't I just feed it from the right by going through the chuck? If not then what's the maximum length I can feed from the right side?



If you remove the tailstock, you can feed in any length you want from that end.  I've had to do that before in my old shop.  I also drilled a hole through the wall on the head stock end to run the stock through.



65Cobra427SC said:


> For the mill... I only showed it in the middle of that space because I didn't know any better (ha, at least I'm honest) and figured 8' was more than enough. The (useless) manual says the tables longitudinal travel is 560mm (22") which I think is the total travel. So does the table travel more to one side than the other, or does it extend the same distance on both sides?



22 inches is the total travel.  It should move about the same to either side of center, there might be a small difference, but not much.
.
.


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## 65Cobra427SC (Jun 17, 2015)

Thanks Jim... exactly what I was looking for.

So if the mill is in the center of an 8' space there is more than enough room to move the table the full longitudinal travel of 22 inches. But if the table is at the extreme of either side, I would only have roughly 21" of space beyond that end of the table... and that would be less any additional space taken up by the crank, etc.

Now I understand the other replies better so this helped a lot. I'll think about this more in the morning when I'm more alert, ha.


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## JimDawson (Jun 17, 2015)

In my old shop I had the mill and the lathe at right angles to each other.  When you cranked the mill table all the way to the right, the handwheel cleared the lathe headstock by 1 inch.  When standing in a normal work position, just to the right of center on the mill, all I had to do was turn to the right and was almost in position to work on the lathe.  My shop was 12x14, so a bit crowded.

Now in the new shop, I have the lathe and mill facing each other, handwheel to handwheel is about 34 inches.  Plenty of room to work between them.


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## 65Cobra427SC (Jun 18, 2015)

Okay, now that I understand better... and I'm more alert...

For the lathe... considering I can already feed roughly 30" from the right side, it seems like a waste having 3' on the left if it will only increase the feed by 6", especially considering I could remove the tailstock and feed even longer items from the right. And that will rarely, if ever, happen. I still need room on the left to gain access to the head but even moving the lathe another foot to the left helps.

For the mill... with the lathe another foot to the left, the mill would now have 9' 3" of total space. With the mill centered, I would have 3' 4" of lateral space at each end of a centered table. Or with the table fully extended that would be 4' 8" and 2' 3" at the ends.

When it comes to both machines, I honestly don't see myself turning or milling very large and/or long pieces. In both cases I bought bigger than I'll ever use for other reasons. But since the mill is still in the crate, and the lathe is still on order, and I've never used either, it can easily be said I'm full of it. I could still make changes to the above. Probably the next two moves are position the mill closer to the lathe and/or out from the wall until the table is beyond the front of the lathe. So feel free to tell me how it is.


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## 65Cobra427SC (Jun 19, 2015)

Things didn't go as quickly as I hoped the past few days but I'm okay with that because if I hadn't clarified a few things, I would have regretted them later. Most of the wiring is finished, just not run into the workshop yet because I wasn't sure exactly where to put the outlets.

I removed the old baseboards because they were installed with the bottom edge touching the concrete floor which doesn't work with anything but a bare concrete floor. Needed to do this at some point so might as well have been now. Plus, in order for the new tiles to expand/contract, the baseboard needs installed so it's barely touching the top of the tiles. I also patched and spot primed the walls... only the ones that I could get to which was most of it... and will paint them with a gloss paint to add some durability. It will have to be white due to the lighting which isn't bad but it's not great either.

There is only one double window in the room but it's on the short side since about half of the front wall is underground. And there are only two recessed lights for the entire room... one bulb each. Not exactly sure how to improve the lighting yet as I refuse to start hacking the ceiling. Since this is a finished room... and with white walls... several others mentioned hanging shower curtains to protect the walls in the are of the machines. They did it with their rooms and said it made a huge difference. They're even mounted so they can be pushed out of the way when the machines aren't being used.

Attached another picture of the wall where the machines will go. No fancy camera so I took two pictures and stitched them together. The long horizontal run of blue tape on the left is where the lathe will be. The blue cross on the right marks the center position of the mill. The small pieces show where the studs are located in those areas. The two pieces of wide blue tape closer to the bottom of the wall are where the outlets will go.

Thanks again for everyone's help. Time for me to get back to work.


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## Falcon67 (Jun 19, 2015)

Here is how I parked mine FWIW.  So far this is working and there is room across the corner for full table travel.


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## 65Cobra427SC (Jun 19, 2015)

Thanks Chris. I've run across several pictures showing that same position and not only don't I have a problem with it, but it would probably work just fine for me. It's difficult not to get tied up in the logic of bigger is better and that applies to the available space as well. The difference here is I have the space and only wanted to make the best use out of it as I could. Plus I don't really need to save the space for anything else because this is it for that room other than storing the tooling for both machines and various pieces of metal for future use. The only other major piece of equipment I'd like to have is a Miller TIG machine, but that will go in the garage. I'm content with the current setup and will update the above drawing to reflect the change. Thanks for chiming in.


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## Doubleeboy (Jun 19, 2015)

I like the way Falcon does it, put the mill into a corner.  I have done it that way in all 3 of my shops, it saves space for sure.  

michael


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## Falcon67 (Jun 19, 2015)

By the way - very nice tools.  

LOL - it's about the only space left for it.  The "clean" work area in the building is 12x24 and I keep bringing things in.  I continue to work for a "BP" size mill.  Wife says "Where are you going to put it?"  Of course the answer is "Get me one, I'll figger it out after we unload it."  
East side




West side




All around the shop...


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## T Bredehoft (Jun 19, 2015)

My PM25   sits in the middle of a 56 in space, this is required because of the handles on each end of the table. it appears to have 20 inches of total movement in X.  You can probably figure 58 inches for  your 22 in travel machine.


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## markknx (Jun 19, 2015)

This is pretty simple to figure out if your table is 30 and the travel is 22 inches add them together then divide that by 2 in this case 26" from Center. now just add in for the crank or power feed.  Also I doubt you will want more than 30" unsupported hanging out of the headstock. (That will allow turning a part up to 6-7 ' long) Keep in mind 1" solid round 30" long will get a bit of a wobble at 300+ rpm. if not supported. Concrats on the new Machines.  Any reason they could not sit at 90 deg. to eachother?
Mark


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## 65Cobra427SC (Jun 20, 2015)

That's unbelievable Falcon... I'm impressed! My first reaction is how do you find anything, but I'm sure you manage just fine. So if the room was twice that size wouldn't you want to spread everything out more? My workbench, drill stand, tool cabinets, air compressor, etc. are all in the garage and that's where they will stay.

Very close Mark...  the mill has a 32" table with 22" of travel so that's 27" from center without considering the crank and power feed. It's in the crate so I'm not sure how much additional space they will take up but I obviously have the room.

Good point on the wobble. I doubt I'll ever turn anything over 3 feet long in the lathe but it's definitely something I'll need to keep my eye on.

There are a couple ways I could put the mill and lathe at 90 degrees to each other but there are some limitations. I have a drawing of the floor plan somewhere so I'll post it here later today.

Thanks


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## 65Cobra427SC (Jun 20, 2015)

Here is the floor area


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## Muskt (Jun 20, 2015)

In my previous shop in Alaska, I had my mill & lathe 90 degrees out.  I hated it!!  There was a lot of unusable space in the corner.  I tried storing stock there; but, could seldom access it without cranking the mill table all the way to the left.  I realize that some may have a different setup, so I am not saying it won't work.  I am saying that I did not like my arrangement.  My space prevented moving either machine, so I had to "make do".

Jerry in Delaware

PS:  Still awaiting my PM 12x36.  My PM 932PDF is home and happy.


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## 65Cobra427SC (Jun 20, 2015)

My PM932-PDF is home but not happy. It talks to me at night... asks me to get him the hell out of the garage.

I tried looking at the floor plan again and I still prefer having them side by side on that back wall. Don't care to put them in the middle of the room or at an angle in the corner. The only advantage with a corner is it uses less space which isn't an issue here as there will be enough space for me to walk around and between both machines. I thought of other placements but the two doorways on the left are in the way and the wall on the right is shorter. All that's left is to put one machine on the wall next to the entrance at the bottom but that will put chips, etc. at the entrance which can be a hazard.

Working on the wiring. The largest wire I've installed before were 12/3 lines for the amp and subwoofer upstairs. But this 10/3 is much harder to maneuver.


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## markknx (Jun 21, 2015)

Cobra,
Looking at that floor plan. inline looks like a good way to go and seeing it I see you have plenty space. And space like at the headstock end does not have to go unused. It would work out good for a short material rack on the wall, or anything mounted on wheels then if you need to put a long part in the lathe you could just roll whatever out. Lots of things you can do with all that space. The beautiful thing about it is you can always move it if you change your mind. Mine has change several times as machine were added and I thing I am about to do some major changes soon.

Mark.


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## Falcon67 (Jun 21, 2015)

I'll measure that space and post.  I was going to do that tonight but the alternator upgrade on the F350 took more time.  I'm usually more organized but I have a lot of things going at once right now.getting that 351c back in the Mustang is the next thing.  There's 28 more feet on the other side of the west wall.


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## Falcon67 (Jun 21, 2015)

10-3 should be enough to run both machines at the same time.


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## tmarks11 (Jun 21, 2015)

65Cobra427SC said:


> So if the room was twice that size wouldn't you want to spread everything out more?


Not really.  Generally called a "manufacturing cell".  Park the tools in close proximity to maximize productivity.  I have a 1000 sq ft garage (and no cars in it, of course), but my lathe and mill are about 5 ft apart facing each other, with a workbench down the side between the two.


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## Falcon67 (Jun 21, 2015)

Space across the table left to right is 75",Y handle is 48" out from corner.


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## 65Cobra427SC (Jun 21, 2015)

Routing the new wiring is becoming a real pain... very tight quarters to feed the wire for the second outlet. Had to let it go yesterday afternoon... will pick it up again in the morning.


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## Falcon67 (Jun 21, 2015)

Is there some special reason for the 10 gage.


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## 65Cobra427SC (Jun 21, 2015)

I purchased a 100 foot roll of 10/3 and started the install thinking the lathe would require a 30 amp breaker (not shown on their website). A couple days later I found it only used a 20 amp so I just kept going. The problems were due to limited access (I actually had to use small mirrors and hemostatic pliers in places) so I still would have had the same problems even with 12/3 wire. BTW, I stuck around this evening to work on the wiring and finished routing the wire through all the problem areas. I still have a lot to do, there won't be any more delays.


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## Falcon67 (Jun 22, 2015)

Well,you'll not overload that lol.  Glad you got it done.  I'm sure it was a wrassle,that's heavy wire.


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