# Suggestions For An Arc Welder For Up To 1/2" Steel?



## E350

I think of myself as primarily a "grinder" on my way hoping to become a "welder."
I have a wire feed machine, but for structural projects on 1/2" steel such as farm implements, building a trailer, and the like, I wonder if using an ARC welder would be appropriate.

If so, what are the differences between arc welders?
Any good recommendations for an arc welder for up to 1/2" steel?


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## FOMOGO

For heavy work I have my Miller big 40 gas powered rig which is handy for doing work on a large property. It is 400 amp capable and you can run some seriously large rod should the need arise. It also has a generator function for running grinders, etc. whether you go portable or stationary I would look for something 250 amp and up, and DC capable. Mike


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## jpfabricator

+ 1 on the d.c. 
I have a lincoln tombstone that is dc/ac capable.
When welding 1/2" or bigger cut a shallow bevel, wire brush, weld a bead, repeat. 
If you have questions post them here, someone will know how to answer them.


Sent from somewhere in East Texas Jake Parker


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## Uglydog

D/C+ is definitely the way to go.
However, depending on funding, a used A/C buzz box can be found on CL for $50.
Pick up some 6013 and have fun, 6013 is easy to weld with quick results. 
Pick up some leather gloves, helmet, and a chipping hammer and your welding for $100. 
Depending on how much practice you do you will likely quickly outgrow the capabilities of A/C and 6013.
But, it is an inexpensive way to get started while producing good results.
Be careful not to start out on critical or safety related welds and always use the appropriate PPE.

Daryl
MN


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## E350

OK, in doing some research I came across this which seems to explain why DC+ is important:

"One way to look at the polarity issue is by the welding rods that are available to you. 6010 runs DC+ only. 6011, which is similar to 6010 (forceful arc, deep penetration, light slag) runs best on AC, but runs all right DC+. 6012 runs best DC-, not good at all DC+. 7018 runs DC+ up to about 300 amps, better on AC above that. 6013 runs well either AC or DC+ for general welding, but was developed for high speed sheet metal work on DC-. And so forth.

What's important is matching the electrode (rod) to the job first, then running it on its best polarity after that. You would rarely match the polarity to the job first, and the rod to the polarity second---with two main exceptions: If you are having a problem with arc blow (the arc wanders off course because of the magnetic field caused by the location of the ground, or some other magnetic field disturbance) which you can't resolve by moving the ground clamp, you can turn to AC, which is not subject to arc blow. The other situation where polarity would be a primary consideration is when you know you need more of the heat in the work than in the rod. DC- provides 2/3 of the heat to the work, DC+ provides 2/3 of the heat to the electrode, and AC is 50/50. 6012 and 6013 electrodes were both originally developed for high speed sheet metal work on DC-, so that would be an example of a time to choose that polarity. I don't do much sheet metal work with stick, high speed or any other way, so I couldn't say. I do know that 6012 running DC- is unusually good at filling gaps in bad fitups, but 6010 is good for that too, and there's not as much slag to entrap with 6010.

DC is generally considered to strike an arc easier and stay lit better than AC, but if any electrode strikes easier or stays lit better than 6013 running AC (or DC, to be fair) I haven't run across it.

There are some real differences between the three polarities in stick welding, but they're not so profound that an inexperienced operator would even necessarily notice them. If your son gets to the point where he can tell just when to use one polarity rather than another, or even just how high to set the current, before he's burned ten thousand sticks, then he's got a real gift and maybe he should look into something that pays better."

http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=toolt&th=176652%3E

So what is a good, hopefully used, Arc welder with the three polarity modes?


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## chuck

http://www.everlastgenerators.com/product/tig-stick/powerarc-200

fixed link


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## E350

*chuck*:  "Page Not Found"  So what would be the product in the current lineup?

*Fomo, jp, uglydog* and *chuck*:  Inherently I am skeptical of "combo" machines of any type - they are usually weaker in each task than a machine dedictated to a single task.

BUT I DON'T KNOW IF MY SKEPTICISM SHOULD APPLY TO WELDERS OR NOT?

If I shouldn't be afraid of a combo welder machine, what about a tig/stick/plasma machine?  It looks like I need to learn to deep arc and I would also like to learn how to tig, and no doubt I could find uses for a plasma cutter...

*Fomo, jp, uglydog* and *chuck*:  Thanks for your continued help.


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## chuck

http://www.everlastgenerators.com/product/tig-stick/powerarc-200


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## Uglydog

Have you looked at this link?
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/stick-welding.html

Daryl
MN


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## chuck

E350 said:


> I have a wire feed machine, but for structural projects on 1/2" steel such as farm implements, building a trailer, and the like, I wonder if using an ARC welder would be appropriate.



With the correct wire your wire welder will do all of these aforementioned projects. Dragging a wire welder around a trailer can be problematic, you will spend more time positioning the welder than welding. On the other hand, with stick welding, use long leads and never move the welder. The leads are light and flexible and very easy to put in position for welding.

I have dc welders and ac welders. Either would work for your listed application. Ignore arc blow concerns as I doubt you will ever come across it at the amperages required to weld 1/2 inch steel.

The advantage of dc stick welding is the ability to use the 6010 rod. It is the only rod that has the shielding necessary to do open root welds. The lincoln 6010 5p rods are very nice and out perform all other 6010 rods. Not all 6010 rods are listed for open root welding.!!! The lincoln series of rods, even the rods for consumers in the little card board packages , outperform most all other rods.The hobart rods, washington wire rods and all other welding supply house brands are crap in comparison.

I have never met a xx18 series rod, 7018, that won't run on ac, don't pay extra for ac7018 rods. 7018 rods do not relight well. Only use them if needed. The xx18 series rod lower the preheat requirement on thick steels by 100 degrees farenheit. That is one of their primary uses. High strength low allow steels have specific requirments and there are many xx18 rods designed specifically for them, I doubt you will need them as standard 7018's handle these steels when they are under a 1/2 inch.

The lincoln ac 225 welder, available anywhere, is a very nice welder, it runs the lincoln consumer rods like nobody's business. A very nice welder for home use. The only downside to it, that can be easily remedied, is its short leads. Around the Dallas area they cost about $100 on craigslist.
chuck


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## ericc

An inexpensive used stick welder is just great for welding the thick steel that you mentioned.  A previous poster suggested that the xx18 rods work well on AC.  If you have a small home type welder, this is not always the case.  These welders do not have enough OCV (voltage) to keep the higher numbered rods running smoothly.  7018AC is just a little more costly, and runs great.  There is also a difference between the welders with a high or low terminal, like the Miller Thunderbolt.  The "low" terminal is low amperage and high voltage and works much better with 7018.  But, when I used 9018 (not AC), it was easy to tell the loss of smoothness in comparison to a Miller Dialarc, which is the more industrial class of machine.

These days, Craigslist sellers seem to charge a premium for the name brand welders (Miller and Lincoln).  It is hard to find the $100 welder anymore.  Don't buy a 120V stick welder unless you really know what you are doing.  I once bought a Wards Powerkraft cut down AC stick welder for $75.  It was only 180 amps, so it could be plugged into a dryer.  These welders have a movable slide adjustment which often comes loose, so you can save some money on Craigslist.  A clamp can be used to tighten it in place if it slips while welding.  I ended up giving the welder to my apprentice.

My favorite models of stick welder are Miller (Thunderbolt or Dialarc) and Lincoln (tombstone or Idealarc).  You can often get a bargain on Craftsman colormatic, Montgomery Wards Powerkraft, Linde, Western Arctronics or some good ol' simple AC stick welder.


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## E350

OK I just picked up a Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC SMAW manufactured between July 2000 and Dec 2000 from a nice guy on craiglist for $200.  Machine is in good shape.  He struck it up before I bought it.  It definitely melts metal.  I have a few questions for you guys:

1.  First things first.  SMAW is bright!  A few years ago I bought a Miller Titanium 9400i with grinding shield (1st gen. without info. track) because my eyes are important to me.  I just read the reviews and can agree with all the negative comments.  But here is the deal, when we tried out the Thunderbolt this morning I cranked up the shade to 13 and it was still not dark enough.  Am I doing something wrong?  I am considering buying a low number passive lens and sticking it inside where the magnifying glass goes.  This is how I want to see, at min. 4:22






Edit:  Local Airgas dealer put two new batteries in my helmet at $5 each and says it is good to go.   He said the Duracell which I put in about two years ago are not as good as the Miller branded  batteries.  We shall see.

2.  What would be the best electrode, polarity and amperage for welding 1/4" steel to 1/4" steel.  The machine has two amperages for AC and also a choice between DCEN or DCEP.

3.  What would be the best electrode, polarity and amperage for welding 1/2" bar stock to 1/4" angle?   Assuming DCEP (direct current electrode positive) which apparently is best for deep penetration on thick metals, what would be the best electrode for 1/2" steel?  On another thread *chuck* suggested:  "I would use a 6010 and finish out with lincoln 7018,s one with a D designation"  If so, what diameter 6010 electrode?  What polarity?  What amperage?

In my recent reading about SMAW, the following statements seemed helpful.  Any suggestions, changes, comments?

"One way to look at the polarity issue is by the welding rods that are available to you. 6010 runs DC+ only. 6011, which is similar to 6010 (forceful arc, deep penetration, light slag) runs best on AC, but runs all right DC+. 6012 runs best DC-, not good at all DC+. 7018 runs DC+ up to about 300 amps, better on AC above that. 6013 runs well either AC or DC+ for general welding, but was developed for high speed sheet metal work on DC-. And so forth.

The trouble with that approach is that it goes at the issue backward. *What's important is matching the electrode (rod) to the job first, then running it on its best polarity after that*. You would rarely match the polarity to the job first, and the rod to the polarity second---with two main exceptions: If you are having a problem with arc blow (the arc wanders off course because of the magnetic field caused by the location of the ground, or some other magnetic field disturbance) which you can't resolve by moving the ground clamp, you can turn to AC, which is not subject to arc blow. The other situation where polarity would be a primary consideration is when you know you need more of the heat in the work than in the rod. DC- provides 2/3 of the heat to the work, DC+ provides 2/3 of the heat to the electrode, and AC is 50/50. 6012 and 6013 electrodes were both originally developed for high speed sheet metal work on DC-, so that would be an example of a time to choose that polarity. I don't do much sheet metal work with stick, high speed or any other way, so I couldn't say. I do know that 6012 running DC- is unusually good at filling gaps in bad fitups, but 6010 is good for that too, and there's not as much slag to entrap with 6010.
DC is generally considered to strike an arc easier and stay lit better than AC, but if any electrode strikes easier or stays lit better than 6013 running AC (or DC, to be fair) I haven't run across it.

There are some real differences between the three polarities in stick welding, but they're not so profound that an inexperienced operator would even necessarily notice them. If your son gets to the point where he can tell just when to use one polarity rather than another, or even just how high to set the current, before he's burned ten thousand sticks, then he's got a real gift and maybe he should look into something that pays better.
All the best, Stan"

"Welding is a process of heating the base metal to where it can accept drolets of molten metal from the electrode to join metal.

AC, DCEN and DCEP are used to control those droplets of molten metal.
The flow of electrons in DC welding circuits is from negitive to positive and is called straight polarity.
When we reverse the welding leads then electron flow is from positive to negitive also called reverse polarity.
When AC current is used for welding, you get a base metal cleaning action that cleans on the alternating phase of the current, anotherwords the current cylces up and down thru the frequency and the base metal is cleaned and filler metal is deposited in both directions. This works well in the flat position and when the base metal hasn't been prep'd as it should be and where the molten droplets has a chance too fast freeze to the base metal.

When DCEN is used for welding the most of the cleaning action stops as far as the frequency is concerned as DC current only flows along the surface of a line and doesn't alternate thru the base metal like the AC current did.
Since electron flow is from negitive to positive then the molten droplets flow too the base metal from the electrode causing a very fast deposit of the droplets. The slang term is known as fast freeze between weldors. If the droplets fast freeze to the base metal then the base metal is cooler while welding thus is a good choice for sheet metal welding or filling poor joint fit up.

When DCEP is used for welding electron flow is from base metal to the electrode and most of the heat build up is on the base metal. What this does is allows for greater molten puddle control for the weldor when using the correct electrodes. Transfer of the molten droplets is slightly slower than using DCEN or AC.

This will cover the basics of some of the differences but in reality there's alot more to using AC, DCEN or DCEP than what's been written here, so I will add too this at a latter time.
T_Bone"

from:
http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=toolt&th=176652

This is what it says on the Thunderbolt spec sheet:


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## chuck

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/US/EN/literature/c2410.pdf
Hope this helps. A better resource is the book published by the James  lincoln foundation, New Lessons in Arc Welding. which is an excellent tutorial and will answer all of your questions.
Chuck


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## markknx

First off let me state both wire feed and stick are arc welding. Next you are asking about welding dcep, on steel in the 1/2-1/4 range, but you are leaving out what type of steel. is it cleen or dirty. what are you type of joint so on so on. Unless you are going to be welding some critical stuff you need not woory what is the best rod. A better question and one I will answer is what rods should I buy for all around work. If you want to have the right rod, dia, polarity for every job you better have deep pockets.
For most home/farm work some  7018 in 1/8 and some 6013 in 1/8 & 3/32 would be ideal. if you do not know how to weld buy some cheap rod to burn up while learning. If it is clean with a good joint and you want a good weld use 7018. if it is dirty, poor joint, hard to get at use 6013. if you have to grind it down after and it don't need to be e-ray quality use the 6013. 6010, 6011 are also good rod and used pretty much the same as 6013. as can 7014, 7016, 7018
Heat for mild steel 1/2 with 7018 1/8 in a flat position would be between 100 - 130 and this will depend on many factors like amount of lead(cable) between the welder and the work, the condition of the ground type of joint humidity..........
Put more time into practicing welding and worry less about rod type. I used a AC Lincoln tombstone welder to learn to stick weld on, and for years to do all my welding at home using mostly 7018ac/dc rod made nice weld too.
Keep this in mind to every welder does some things different from the next, so what pattern I move the rod or heat I use may not work for the next guy. I use pretty much all of the common weld patters at different times, and some that just work at that time. Hear is a good example of what I mean. when I do my certifications we all have the same rod same brand/mod. machines same metal and the same joint. but the welding machines will be set at many different amps, and many different patters will be used.
Remember pull stick welds don't push.
 Check out Jodi and welding tips and tricks  



 This link will get you to one of his vids.
I have been welding for 30+ years and I still consider myself learning.
Mark


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## E350

*markknx*:  ASTM A36 1/4" plate primarily horizontal lap joints (welding from above) and vertical lap joints (welding from below) between clean new metal with mill scale removed to existing 1/4" metal which I will flap disk to shiny before welding.  I just bought 10 lbs of 1/8" diam. E7018 Radnor No. 64001110 ED032333  DC+/AC 110-150 Amps (dang Airgas didn't have Lincoln) AWS A5. E7018 ASME SFA-5. 7018.  I was planning on running it on DC+.
I bought the used Millerthunderbolt XL SMAW welder (not "arc" as corrected by you) because the welds that I have to do are "critical" which have to be done out doors, and I need good fusion.
I have a "wire feed welder" (not "mig" as corrected by chuck) which I run GMAW through but I am not a good welder with it either.  I do it.  But it takes a lot of grinding off my welds and then rewelding for me to get things done right.
I like Jody's stick video and just rewatched thanks to you.  I also like the 1942 GE video I posted above.

*chuck*:  I bought the book and will read it.

So I will start welding some bead pads this weekend.  And you guys won't hear back from me until I have something decent to show.  Or can't get anything decent and need some help.

The counter guy at Airgas told me that in school they made him weld bead pads with 6010 for nearly 8 hours a day for two weeks before they moved on to 7018.  Which was easy after their experience with 6010.  So I don't expect to be any kind of wiz kid.  I respect what you guys do and what you know.  I know you put a lot of time into learning what you do.  And I don't expect to ever be at your level or to be at an "acceptable" level without putting some brain and seat time in... 

Thanks again for all your help.


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## markknx

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## E350

Mark:  I screwed up.  I meant to say horizontal lap joints welding from the side or from below and horizontal lap joints welding from above.
And, if I didn't say it in this thread, I said it in Franko's thread,  I tell people "I am a grinder trying to become a welder."  So, yes I carry that "user card,"  not proudly, but I carry it for now...


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## FOMOGO

That Thunderbolt is good little welder. The first one that I owned (started welding back in the early 60's in my dad's shop). I bought it new back in the early 80's and used it to weld sections of 12x12 H beam together to make the span on my bridge. I got the steel for free, left over sections of piling from the railroad that were too short for there use. Thirty some years and a lot of heavy equipment over it, and its still there. Don't over think it, Just work the joint with small circular motion at the tip of your rod, keep your rod right at the puddle, and as the old man said when the boy on a New York City street asked him, "Sir, how do you get to Carnegie Hall?"  the old man replied "practice son, practice". Mike

Not great pics of the bridge, but the only ones I could find. Fortunately it's pretty hard to see my welds. Mike


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## markknx

E350, yes you kind of mentioned it in the first post, that is why I added that. Meant in humor.
Mark


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## E350

guys:   I bought 5 lbs. of 6010 5/32 diam. today.  Should I start padding beads with it or with the 7018.

Mark:  No worries.  It is what it is. 

Fomogo:  You have a right to be proud of your view, your bridge and your welds since it has held up so well so long!  GoodOnYa'M8!


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## markknx

E350 either one run a little with one till you feel comfortable, then run a few of the other and see how each acts. 6010 will start easier so that may be a good place to start. One thing I liked doing and still do when dialing a machine in is run your first set of stringers about an 1/8" apart. Keep ruing them till you have a few, then come back and fill in the valleys between the welds. This will give you guides to weld by, practice filling a V joint, practice tying in the edges of the welds, and a feel for filling up the joint to a good crown. Once you can do these you will be good at watching the puddle (not the arc) and controlling the puddle.

Really it sounds harder than it really is. just stick a rod in the holder and let it rip. post some pics and myself and others will be better able to help you make adjustments to what you are doing.
Mark


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## markknx

Fomogo,
E350 is right very nice place. As for the bridge pretty cool. but in the second pic. the tractor wheel the farthest away looks like it has a welding bb on it. or is that a small bug?


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## E350

You know, I am a little grumpy with my local welding supplies retailer.

Looking up the amperage range for 6010 5/32 diam. in the Miller Thunderbolt XL Owner's Manual, the recommended amperage is 125A to 175A.

Looking at the chart on the unopened 5/32" box of Radnor 6010 electrodes, the recommended amperage is 100A to 175A.

Although I see on the Miller website that the normal stick is consumed in less than two minutes.

I need seat time, running bead after bead after bead on scrap making pads of beads.

At the amperage required for the 6010 5/32" diam. rod, the Miller Thunderbolt XL will be in the 20%-15% duty cycle range.

Which means that I will sit two minutes running a bead, then have to do nothing for 8 minutes to wait for the welder to cool down so as not to damage the welder or not to detrimentally affect my welds.  (There is nothing worse than thinking it is me that is screwing up when it is really the machine that is screwing up because the machine is being pushed beyond its limits...)

In contrast, the amperage for a 6010 3/32" diam rod. is only 50A  to 75A.  60A puts the Miller Thunderbolt XL into the 90%-100% duty cycle which will facilitate some serious seat time.

So the 5/32" 6010 is going back and I am buying some 3/32" 6010, for practice at least.  According to the chart, 1/8" should be fine for actual work.

The 7018 1/8" is also going back, because it needs even more amps than the 6010.  It will be replaced with 7018 3/32".

Now, I haven't even burned one electrode yet.  But I know how to read.  But I also know that experience may be more important than what I am reading, so if you guys think something different or think that I am missing something, please let me know.


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## FOMOGO

markknx said:


> Fomogo,
> E350 is right very nice place. As for the bridge pretty cool. but in the second pic. the tractor wheel the farthest away looks like it has a welding bb on it. or is that a small bug?



   Yeah, but those wheels are cast steel mower wheels (late 1800's to early 1900's), and that is brazing, not welding. Even preheated with a big rosebud it was a *****. Have taken to welding stops to the angle iron the wheels sit on to hold them in place. Much easier than welding to those wheels. By far the toughest thing I've yet run across to weld to. Mike


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## markknx

Fomogo,
Yes the old steel from the turn of the century does not weld that good either. On several occasions I have had to reinforce beams and columns in old building in Chicago and man is it a pain. it welds like cheep cast iron. I would like to try oxy acetylene on it some time but can never get a welding torch and rod brought out. Did you try NI rod on the wheels? on one of the above mentioned jobs we ran Ni rod on the old steel the tied the new steel into the NI rod. It helped.

E350,
I looked at millers chart and I have to question the heat range they call for on the 7018 1/8. I put the question to the rest of the guys here but does anyone here run this rod at over 130 amps? much less the 160ish amps the chart calls for? at that heat the flux burns off the rod. I run around 100-120 when doing certs. with a 8' ground and stinger. 3/8 V grove 1/4 gap with backer vert up and overhead. That is still in your 30-40 % duty cycle so yes there will be some down time. using 3/32 would be a way to get some more time under the hood but if you are going to be welding 1/2 steel IMHO you would do well to learn to weld with 1/8 rod.  Not to say you can't do your learning on the 3/32 then just a little time with 1/8 to adjust. that would work fine.
 So what do others think about 1/8" 7018 at over 130Anps? I just looked back at the miller chart and it is actually saying close to 170amps. starting at 115-120amps.
Mark


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## FOMOGO

markknx said:


> Fomogo,
> Yes the old steel from the turn of the century does not weld that good either. On several occasions I have had to reinforce beams and columns in old building in Chicago and man is it a pain. it welds like cheep cast iron. I would like to try oxy acetylene on it some time but can never get a welding torch and rod brought out. Did you try NI rod on the wheels? on one of the above mentioned jobs we ran Ni rod on the old steel the tied the new steel into the NI rod. It helped.



   Haven't tried the Ni rod on those wheels, but have tried it on other jobs. Used it to repair a broken axle end (cast steel) on a backhoe I had years ago and it worked well in that application. Getting ready to try it on a sway bar repair. Mike


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## Tony Wells

Mark I am no pro welder, as I have stated, but if memory serves, I agree completely with you. I can never recall using more than 120-130 amps on 7018. Usually much less than that, regardless of the thickness of the joint. You might make a case of building up a work surface in a hurry with higher current in the instance of a large, quickly cooling mass, but preheat would be the way to go if possible. And that is only supposition on my part. I have done my share of buildup, but it's been a long time ago. I think maybe the charts are wrong on this one. I never start with the middle or higher when I do consult charts, which is rare anyway. My guesswork has proven adequate thus far. I've not burned rods in a while anyway, due to the little welding I have to do these days, and using a wire machine or TIG when I do weld.


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## E350

Well installed the circuit breaker, the EMT, the wiring, dryer and range recepticals and plugged in the Miller Thunderbolt XL today.  And tried to stick weld for the first time.  And below is the ugly truth.

1/8" ASTM A36
3/32" E7018  DCEP  playing with amperage 65-120  Miller welding calculator says 65-100
I started on the bottom and went up. Went left to right and you can see my arc strikes and many many sticks on the left.
One thing that was interesting and I don't know if it is wrong or right, but on my later beads about half way across I would just push the rod into the metal and it stayed lit and just moved along, and the bead got narrower.
My helmet is letting light in from the back which is making it harder to see than I would like.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
	

		
			
		

		
	




And then I thought I would try some 3/32" E6010 DCEP 40-85.  Nothing but stick sticks.  Couldn't even get it started...


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## chuck

https://www.facebook.com/charles.mulvihill1/videos/vb.1482033768/10204548045009410/?type=2&theater

I don't know if you will be able to see the above video of me welding with washington wire brand 3/32 6010 rods. I am using a harbor freight 200 dollar stick welder that is not rated for use with 6010 rods, it is inverter based. 1/8 inch 1020 steel.

If you can see the video, look how slowly I carefully position the rod before I start welding. 
Both hands on the stinger. Rock solid stance.  

I get the electrode stuck also. Most inverter welders cause this to happen with 6010 rods. In addition, washington wire electrodes and most electrodes sold in small packages at welding suppliers are not as good at striking the arc as the premium rods sold by lincoln electric. I consider hobart, washington, radnor and welding supplier house brands to be poor in quality when striking the arc.

Not all 7018 rods are the same. Some have more iron powder in the coating. Quality 7018 rods can be touching the metal as you weld and can be lightly dragged on the metal if they have enough iron in the coating. Secondly, 7018 rods do not light up well with restrikes. Slag covers the tip on 7018 rods that must be removed before restriking.

I am going to suggest that you purchase 6011 rods to learn with. They strike and maintain the arc better than 6010 and 7018's.

If you are welding left to right start the arc just to the right about a half an inch from the left side of the plate. Maintain a longish arc and bring the rod over to the left edge of the plate, lower the rod and start welding. You will be welding over your arc strike, this is standard welding practice and should be done with all smaw rods.

Think about keeping your head away from the weld, it is counter intuitive, but, you will be able to see better the farther away your head is from the weld arc. After awhile you will start to understand the puddle, you will start seeing two puddles, one is molten metal and one is molten slag. Then you will use rod angle to see the effect on the slag, more rod angle pushes the slag away from the rod. Not enough angle and the slag gets under the rod. 

You will need to use up a lot of rods, many pounds, practicing before you are ready to weld a nice bead, have patience and it will come.

Hope this helps, 

Chuck


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## markknx

E350, Glad you got all hooked up. Now lets talk about those um, welds? No really you are not that bad you just need a little fine tuning and a lot of practice. I suggest you to try a few things, each on there own and then combining them. Before I that look at what seems to be the 7th and 8th welds from the top these welds look pretty good for a 3/32 rod on 1/8 steel. you are a little shaky but the weld looks pretty good from here. One thing I want you to try on all welds is when you strike the arc hold the rod with your free hand about 1/2 way down the rod. only hold it a short time as it will get hot soon.

first tighten up the arc length

next try just running stringer beads use a move pause motion like 1,2, move. watch the crater and the puddle while doing this you should see the base metal crater then fill in when it fills move. you are only moving about the diameter of the rod so 3/32.

Try 75-85 amps on this thin steel and small rod be sure to clap the ground to the work or the work to what you are grounded to. You are pulling the weld right? it looks like it but some times it is hard to tell what someone is doing wrong with out watching them weld.  Be sure you are comfortable, rest your elbow on something. (but not the hot stuff) As stated above use both hands. I like to hold the rod with my free hand at the start once the puddle is started I move it up to the bottom of the other hand to help support and steady it. (well when I don't need it to hold on to the steel or ladder I do)

The welds look either cold, fast or long arc keep this in mind. Correct each thing one at a time so you see what each one is doing. This can help out a lot as you learn more and more. I have apprentices that I work with run what I know is hot, then what I know is cold. Long an short arcs so they see what each do to the weld.

You are closer than you think to good welds Watch so respected you tubers like welding tips and tricks I will post some of what I think are good guys.

Mark


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## E350

*chuck*:  Thank you for your post.  I thought maybe you had given up on me.  The E7018 is Lincoln.  The E6010 is Radnor.  I will try to buy only Lincoln in the future.  Your comments are helpful. Your admission that you get the electrode stuck also is encouraging. And the statement that inverter welders cause this to happen with 6010 rods.  I don't think that the Thunderbolt XL is an inverter welder and this makes me happy that I went old school on the stick machine (also within my budget).  Also helpful are the counter intuitive suggestions like moving my head away from the weld to see better.  And I will buy some E6011 Lincoln.  Barnes and Airgas which are the two supply houses around here have most stuff but some only in huge quantities which are not appropriate for me or my budget. 

I like the rods better the shorter they get.  More steady. 

Yes I would like to strike the arc first and then drag it over the work.  but I am welding on a 3/4" piece of plywood until I get a welding table.  I guess I can place another pice of scrap metal under the weld metal.

You are one of the few people I know that has a book case in your workshop.  I just finished chapter 2 of Procedure Handbook "Fourteenth Edition."  Interesting read.  I don't know if it will make me a better welder, but it will certainly make me a more knowledgeable one.

A photo of my Bronco.


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## E350

*Mark*:  I like short rods.  I found myself wanting to start the arc by holding the rod with my left hand, but didn't.  Thanks for saying that I can.  I used a file to clean the slag off the tip of the rod.  I am pulling the rod  to the right.  It was so interesting that I could push the rod into the metal as it melted as I drug it to the right.  I will continue to try what you suggest.  A picture of good and bad welds with explanations of why would be helpful to print and put on the wall.

Got to run, but I will be back at it later today.  Guys enjoy your Sunday mornings.


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## Ulma Doctor

i'll give a 7018 rod a momentary hard thump on the work to restart a weld,
as mentioned before, a drop of slag will encase the electrode upon stopping the weld.
the hard thump breaks the slag off and the electrode fires off very easily.

something else to avoid is trying to weld at too low of an amperage for the rod, the arc will be hard to start and will go out easily.

i tend to weld hot and fast, just the way i learned. 
My welding instructor did a lot of pipeline work, he stressed penetration and strong welds.
i'll admit that it took a long time for me to become proficient of the hot and fast method, 
but now i really don't even think about it much anymore, i just do it.

good luck, welding is a lifetime study


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## markknx

Put two angle toes down heal up (^) on the plywood running parallel to each other. Then place a piece of plate on them. try not to weld directly over the angles and the plywood will not burn. But use care when finished don't just weld and leave the shop. stick around for a while to make sure nothing is burning.

Yes 3/32 is kind flimsy, when striking an arc I swears it gets pulled in by magnetics to close the gap and stick the rod. And we all stick the rod from time to time.
Mark


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## chuck

E350 said:


> Yes I would like to strike the arc first and then drag it over the work. but I am welding on a 3/4" piece of plywood until I get a welding table. I guess I can place another pice of scrap metal under the weld metal.


No, don't start the weld off of the plate, start on the plate about a half inch to 3/4 inch to the right of the left edge of the plate you are welding on, then move the lit rod to the left and start welding on the left edge and weld to the right over the point that you started the rod on. This hides your arc starts by welding over them.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-u...Steels-Lincoln-Lincoln7018AC(LincolnElectric)
Is this the rod you are using? If so I would run this rod at 100 amps. It's specs say dc+ 70 to 115 amps. I have not used this rod. It probably is high in iron powder so it will run better at higher amperages. A good way to figure this is the middle range of this rod is 92,5 amps, add 10% to this figure, about 9 amps, gives about 100 to 105 amps to get its best operating characteristics.

The forward and pause is an excellent tip from Mark. It allows you to get a lot more consistency on bead width. It will make your welds look a lot better. 
Another tip is to wack the tip of your 7018 rod on something as soon as you break the arc to sling the slag of the end. This makes restarting 7018's easier. Not to hard or you can knock the flux off the rod. Takes practice and you gotta do it quick while the tip of the rod is still red.

Small world, North Central Ford is right around the corner from me. I have an 87  Bronco, 351 automatic, manual lock front hubs, positrac. Last of the carburated 351's.


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## E350

95 E.B. (cloth int.) 5.8L EFI (351), E4OD, just installed Mile Marker hubs after my last rebuild of the oem autolocking "4x4" failed.  I flew into Love Field picked it up at the used car place and drove it back to CA.  If you have electric windows here's a write up I did on rebuilding them:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1352425-stans-the-man-for-window-regulator-gear-plugs.html

My time in TX has been limited to San Antonio, Corpus with a little time in Austin (6 st) and once in Dallas.  Great state!

I didn't mention it earlier, but thanks for the video chuck.  The rod is a Lincoln E7018 dc rod.  I will edit to list its part number.  So far I like it alot.

*mark* and *chuck*:  Thanks for all your help.

_Cruz/Walker 2016.  Cruz to cut the size of federal govt, and Walker to run what's left._


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## markknx

Hope these help a little the last one is showing trouble shooting welds this kid is a little goofy but puts out some good videos with lots of info on settings and what not. also gives good shots of a weld being made. pay close attention to the arc length, puddle size and shape, and the like in these videos. one thing I did not mention before was with 7018 you can drag the rod lightly on the steel one you get the puddle started, if the heat is good it will not stick.

Mark


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## markknx

one more I found with solid theory, you can skip the first 14:00 if you want for now about 14:xx he shows a real good example of what to watch in the puddle.




Mark


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## markknx

For the guys that know how to weld following this thread. Here is one for a chuckle. This guy is teaching a college mig welding class but only knows enough to be dangerous. Of course it could just be I lost interest at Mechanized Inert Gas welding.


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## E350

*Mark*:  I have only had time to watch the first three videos.  They were excellent.  But don't you know its not "mechanized inert gas" welding (Or even a "metal inert gas" welding machine).  *Chuck *previously corrected me when I referred to my other machine a "mig machine" it is a "wire feed" machine which is also capable of FCAW-S or FCAW-F.  After that I thought well duh... I guess pretty much if you plug it into an electrical outlet, it is "arc" welding.

This is what I have for electrodes.  I haven't opened the Radnor 7018 1/8" yet so I will return it for Lincoln if Airgas will let me.  I really like the Lincoln 7018 Excaliber MR.

_Manufacturer Product Name Stock No. Description_
Radnor E7018 64001110 E7018 1/8" X 14"
Lincoln Excaliber 7018 MR ED032588 E7018 3/32" x 14"
Lincoln Fleetweld 5P+ ED032565 E6010 1/8" x `14"
Radnor E6010 64001006 E6010 3/32" x 14"

Now I have an important question for you guys.  I don't like what is happening with my eyesight after welding.  It is like I looked at the sun but lasts longer.  My helmet is a Miller Titanium 9400i.  The batteries are new as of 2 weeks ago.  Forgetting about all the complaints about it being heavy etc.   I own it, it should be the best for protective vision.  But, if not please let me know and I will sell it and buy the best.

In the meantime how do I set up my helmet so that I best protect my vision?

If I set the sensitivity past the little triangle (recommend) setting everything goes dark.  If I put the shade much past 10.5 I can't see where I am welding.  I am not sure what the delay does but I have it on medium.

Also, what is the best welding environment?  Should I weld in a completely dark environment with lights on the work.  What is the absolute best setting on the helmet for protection and what is the absolute best environment for protecting vision.  And what is the best way to see the puddle and protect vision?


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## chuck

Stop using the helmet. There is something wrong with the electronics or you have not adjusted the head band correctly.


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## chuck

The sensitivity setting is so that the helmet does not go dark until the welding arc starts. The sensors can darken the helmet if hit by lights or another welder nearby. just adjust it so it goes dark when you are welding.
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-u...ions/Pages/helmets-eye-protection-detail.aspx
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-solutions/Documents/weldinglenses.pdf


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## E350

*chuck*:  Do you have any suggestion for having the helmet checked?  I can take it by my local Airgas retail store but I don't know if they will check it.  Maybe I can have them call the local Miller rep and have him check it out?  I don't know enough to know if it is me or if it is the helmet.  I guess I can also call Miller and ask them.   I just searched for "Miller titanium recall" and "Miller titanium problems" and came up with nothing.

*Mark*:  That Arc Welding Lesson video is by far the best.  I am letting it run in the background but will watch it in a single sitting when I have time.


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## chuck

E350 said:


> I don't like what is happening with my eyesight after welding. It is like I looked at the sun but lasts longer. My helmet is a Miller Titanium 9400i. Forgetting about all the complaints about it being heavy etc. I own it, it should be the best for protective vision. But, if not please let me know and I will sell it and buy the best.


I use the cheapest Jackson helmet and the cheapest glass lens in shades 8 to 15. 
My helmets cost about$45 at airgas and the lenses cost $1.75 each and last a long long time.
 I do have some glass gold lenses that work well on stainless mig, I don't use them unless I am having difficulty seeing, they sometimes work better. 
For tacking I use an auto helmet insert called Save Phace, it costs about $80 at my supplier and has a 3 year warranty, no replaceable batteries. I use the small veiwing area at work 2x4 1/4. 
I have never had a auto helmet that has better view than plain cheap green glass. I have bought a lot of good expensive auto helmets, never really like to weld with them, they are great to learn with and for tacking and assembly work.
Most manual helmets come with plastic shades, they are worthless.
The Jackson helmets have very nice headgear and my neck and ears dont get burned.
I used the hobart auto helmets for years for tacking, neck and ears got burnt if I welded with them. Too short and not wide enough.


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## chuck

E350 said:


> Do you have any suggestion for having the helmet checked?


I just looked up your helmet it has a 3 year warranty. I would send it in.


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## E350

Hmmm... I may have had it more than three years, but I will look into all this tomorrow, Monday.
I really appreciate the specifics on eye protection. 
The helmet did nothing when I purchased the Thunderbolt XL, the guy welded with it and the helmet was apparently not functioning because the batteries needed to be replaced.  The batteries are new and it is certainly working better, but not right for me or not set right for me.
Thanks,  I don't like to blame equipment when I don't know what I am doing but what is happening is not optimal for sure.


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## chuck

E350 said:


> not sure what the delay does but I have it on medium.


The delay is for when you have stopped the arc the helmet does not immediately lighten. I set the delay to its longest setting.


E350 said:


> Also, should I weld in a completely dark environment with lights on the work


I see best in a brightly lit shop, a dark shop is hard to weld in.


E350 said:


> What is the absolute best setting on the helmet for protection and what is the absolute best environment for protecting vision. And what is the best way to see the puddle and protect vision?


http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-u...ions/Pages/helmets-eye-protection-detail.aspx
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-solutions/Documents/weldinglenses.pdf
A setting of 10 should have been sufficient for the amps you where welding at. I generally weld at about a shade number less than what is recommended. I see the eye doctor every year and am checked out very carefully, I have no signs of any eye damage, been welding for 40 years.


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## E350

*chuck*:  Thanks again.


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## chuck

Headgear.
Most quality helmets have 4 adjustments on their headgear.
1. A ratcheting nob to adjust to your hat size.
2. An adjustment on the top to adust the whole helmet higher or lower. I set this so the headband stays just above my ears.
3. An in and out adjustment. I set this too close and my helmet fogs. adjust accordingly.
4. An adjustment for how far the helmet drops. I adjust this so the helmet just touches my chest.
I buy jackson helmets because they work, and, it can take an enormous amount of time to set up a helmet to my liking. I know the settings on t he Jackson helmets, I have four of them, two and work and two at home, I buy a new one every year, my helmets take a lot of abuse, and wear out.
I also use fiber metal helmets, I don't use their rubber band head gear, I use their more standard headgear. Only with leathers, no neck protection with the fiber metal helmets.


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## E350

*chuck*:  I put the hardhat adapter on my helmet, because it provides a little more steadiness to the helmet while unfortunately making it more heavy.  The Miller Titanium 9400i is constantly criticized because of how heavy it is.  And is true that the sheild will not stay up.  But the sheild has a separate grinding face protector which makes it heavier.  I have a 3M hard hat with face shield and 3M 101 ear muffs for grinding but I thought that the face sheild on the 9400i would provide some benefit. 

*Mark*:  It is possible that I had too much drag angle and that is why the beads are too tall.  I have to fit up a part to a four riser stair railing which I am modifying.  If I get that done today, I may try to adjust the settings on my helmet and weld it up. 

Can I ask what you use for a welding helmet?  A friend of ours who works for a welding shop in Idaho also uses only a fixed sheild helmet.  I am wondering if professionals use primarily fixed shades for a reason.


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## markknx

E350,  You said earlier that light from the arc was getting in your hood from behind. What is it reflecting off of? Do you have the hood set so it comes down to your chest? I can tell you for sure you can get a nasty welding burn on your eye from a reflected arc. I got one once from a guy welding behind me. The UVL was being refected off my safety glasses. As far as having a hard time seeing that can be from having a bright light behind you when you weld. Like outside in the sun. I some times throw a towel over my head to block sun light.

Don't take chances with arc flash. If none of the things said seem to be the issue and you think it is the hood get it checked out. Anybody that welds can tell you if it is working right or not as long as they can weld with it. Think local fab or body shops. But a welding supply should also be able to help. But of all the advice you have got not using it until you know what is going on is the most important. (I know i'm not the first to mention it)
*
Mark*: I have only had time to watch the first three videos. They were excellent. But don't you know its not "mechanized inert gas" welding (Or even a "metal inert gas" welding machine). *Chuck *previously corrected me when I referred to my other machine a "mig machine" it is a "wire feed" machine which is also capable of FCAW-S or FCAW-F. After that I thought well duh... I guess pretty much if you plug it into an electrical outlet, it is "arc" welding.

I think you got Chuck wrong on that. I think he was saying the machine is not a MIG machine it is a Wire feed machine (wire feeder)  MIG is One of the process that it can perform. (GMAW) MIG is the same as calling GTAW TIG lot easier to say.  Metal Inert Gas Welding, The video guy calls it Mechanized Inert Gas welding. that is where I was saying I lost intrest.

All the videos are good but the last one I posted (not the MIG one) seems to have the best example of what to look for in the puddle. it is at like 14: 20 or somewhere close to that there will be arrows pointing to things while the guy is welding.
Mark


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## chuck

_Manufacturer Product Name Stock No. Description_
Radnor E7018 64001110 E7018 1/8" X 14"
Lincoln Excaliber 7018 MR ED032588 E7018 3/32" x 14" ,,,,,,, 70 to 120 amps
Lincoln Fleetweld 5P+ ED032565 E6010 1/8" x `14"
Radnor E6010 64001006 E6010 3/32" x 14"

I would trade your radnor rods in and then try this one as it is available in 20 lb masters with 5 lb tubes
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...ndLowAlloySteels-Jet-LH-Jet-LH78MR/c21025.pdf
This rod 3/32nf dia. runs at 65 to 100 amps, should be a little cheaper to.


E350 said:


> I am wondering if professionals use primarily fixed shades for a reason.


I use the 2 x 4 1/4 inch viewing area fixed shade because it is light. I weld 8 to 10 hours a day it makes a big difference. Most of the welders in our shop, about 20  of us use a combination of fixed shade and auto,,The headgear handles the weight of the smaller veiwing area lenses better, the helmet drops more smoothly, the tension adjustment can be set lighter so less of a head nod drops the helmet easily.

AND, we can see better with cheap glass lenses, than with any auto darkening lense.


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## chuck

E350,
For a beginning welder an automatic helmet is a huge advantage. There really is no advantage to an auto helmet for me other than when I am tacking sheet metal every inch which I do a lot of. 

I don't use auto helmets for the following reasons
I don't need one most of the time.
They are not as comfortable.
They fog much more easily.
They are not as optically clear as the cheapest glass lenses.
Cost, I have never had an auto last more than a year.
Proprietory covers, they're expensive.
Have to have a proprietory cover on the inside to, it's expensive.
Damn batteries, half the time their dead when you buy them.
The plastic cover on the inside reflects the light that is reflecting into your helmet from your chest and the ceiling. This does'nt happen with small glass fixed shade lenses, glass lenses don't need plastic covers.
If you drop it just right it won't ever work again.
The optics with auto helmets  degrade over time and they become slightly fuzzy or less clear when looking at the arc.


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## markknx

I have two auto dark helmets and love them at home and for TIG or small tight finish things at work like SS handrail pickets. or even carbon steel rail pickets. But I just don't like to bring it out for the other stuff. They get dropped and beat up to much. one is a high end 3m, the other is a middle of the road Lincoln I picked up for a job out of town neither is much heavier than my Prostar I use at work but then again I rarely spend my whole day just welding. I like the larger lens because I don't always get to weld right in front of me. But these things are more a matter of preference. I know a lot of deckers are now switching to auto. they used to just wear sun glasses and dark face shields (that is why I don't deck.) because all they do is plug/Puddle  weld the metal deck down and move to the next weld.

But if your hood is working I can see no reason to run out and buy a new one. My Lincoln is solar so it is always on the 3m has batteries so you have to remember to turn it on.

Chuck I wish I could use the sweet head gear they put in these helmet now a days for work. But I have to pull them out and pull a helmet band in them. You ever need a set of head gear let me know. I go through about one hood a year. (yes that is why I don't use the auto at work most of the time.)

Mark


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## E350

*chuck*:  I traded the Radnor in for Lincoln Excaliber 7018 MR 1/8"  Thank you for suggesting the other Lincoln rod, I didn't have your post printed out with me and I thought for consistency, I would just get the same rod in 1/8 that I have in 3/32.  The counter guys were helpful suggesting a silver pencil instead of soapstone for best visability.  I also borrowed a Lincoln Auto Darkening single shade 11 helmet and a 2x4 fixed shade 10 to try this weekend.

*Mark*:  I also bought a leather neck turkey gobbler dealy that attaches to the helmet.  I definitely did not have the bottom of the helmet against my chest.

Also one of the counter guys said something that was counter intuitive.  By pushing the rod into the metal as I drag it I am actually making the puddle colder because I am making the arc smaller.  That there is an optimum distance from the puddle to the arc which will allow the arc to be the most efficient for the given amperage.  And knowing that distance will only come with experience.  At least I can now recognize a too long arc.  And I guess a pushed-into-the-metal arc is too short.  So, I need to play with those two distances and try to see what happens to the puddle when I do.  One of the counter guys also said that changing the distance from the puddle to the rod actually changes the voltage (?).  All very interesting.

I will get back to my pads of beads this weekend...


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## Keith Foor

OK, sounds like you have made a move on a welder and are having some luck with it.  For those looking for a welder and reading this, and some will cringe but I burnt plenty of rod with a Lincoln 225 AC buzz box and never had a problem.  I learned to weld on one and though I don't have one any more because I upgraded to a big industrial TIG machine, they are still wonderful for ANYTHING that you would be doing at a home of farm shop.  No they will not run baseball bats sized rods, but it's really not typical to need to run that sort of thing anyway.  Now I will say that when you begin looking to upgrade machines and have some serious money to put down, get a machine that is CC/CV (constant current or constant voltage).  Stick and TIG are both constant current operations of welding.  Constant Voltage is used for MIG welding only.  But with a machine that will do both you can save up and buy a wire feeder later and have a really nice setup and be able to do all three main types of welding.  The other plus is that if you buy a 250 to 300 amp rated machine, then you can run heavier MIG wire and lay beads on 1/2 inch plate in one pass if it's properly beveled.  This is also a good time to mention that you should not be afraid of 3 phase machines.  I have a 15 HP rotary converter that I use to power a 300 AMP old school Hobart MIG which is a seperate power supply and wire feeder.  It will run one pass beads on 1/2 without issue and had never let me down.  I will say that if you are looking at older MIG machines, you will need two if you buy a big machine like mine.  It does great for 10 gauge and up but sheet metal and body metal, it simply doesn't want to turn down far enough that you can control burn through.  Newer machines will not have this issue and will run .023 wire without problems.  The smallist I can get away with is .035 but I can run .062 with it and a small 125 amp machine just don't.  Hope this helps.


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## markknx

Are you saying a full pen V groove in 1 pass on 1/2 thick? If so I have to guess it is in the flat position. I would also wager some very hot steel. and distortion.
Mark


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## Keith Foor

Wasn't alot of distortion... Was two pieces about 8 inches long tacked at both ends and in middle.  I just wanted to see if it would do it.  It would, turned way up and running .062 wire. Have never had a need to do it since.  I have run a bunch of 3/8 plate with my son building demo derby lawn mowers.  He got mad about how long it was taking to stick it all up so I pulled out the big MIG and we started laying bead.


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