# Precision Matthews Review



## econdron

Let me start by saying I have no affiliation with Precision Matthews, I am simply a customer. Thought I would write up a review on various aspects of the company, and the products I purchased through them. I will try to be as unbiased as I can.

*Background*
I purchased a PM-932 with the power down feed option for my garage based hobby shop. A couple months later it turned into a garage based part time job, then about a year after that, I moved into a small shop as a full time job in the general fabrication industry. While the mill went through periods of "heavy" milling, using 3/4" roughers with speeds & feeds as high as the machine would allow, it was primarily used as a glorified drill press and precision hole placement machine. I occasionally used it for fly cutting and facing, both of which in my opinion exceed the mills spindle capacity, unless you're using it to for a very light skim cut. 

*Initial Purchase*
I was a BIG cheapskate initially. I wanted something new, didn't want to have to deal with used, and the PM932 was the best bang for the buck out there, and I was looking for every possible way to save a couple bucks. I probably had over 30 different messages back and forth to Matt over at Precision Matthews and he patiently answered all my questions, offered a 2% discount if I mailed in a check, and threw in a free starter pack for the mill even though that promotion had technically expired. I was very satisfied with the initial customer service to say the least. Mill was on back order so I had to wait a few weeks before it came in. 

*Initial Machine Review*
I will say I knew nothing about milling when I got this machine. My only experience prior to this mill was using a Smithy 3-in-1 machine where the motor would stall if you tried to move too fast with a 1/4" end mill. Even that machine I only used a couple times. My first project was milling a pocket out of 3/8" thick 304 stainless steel. Great beginners job!  I broke every single end mill that came with the mill before I finally started learning. A few youtube videos and lots of experience later, I had some of the basics down. The mill definitely has it's limitations, but with patience and the right speeds and feeds (appropriate for the mill), most anything can be accomplished on this bad boy. As previously stated, I purchased the power down feed option. I only used this a couple times. It wasn't that much extra and I figured I'd rather have the extra capabilities. Looking back now, I would not have purchased it. I prefer hand feeding drill bits, and I never did figure out how to bore properly (could be the cheap tool that I bought) so the surface finish was just as crappy when I used the power down feed as when I fed it manually. But that's my own fault. As for the starter pack, I think the collets were the only things that survived. Throw the vise away. The thing split in half after a couple weeks. 6" Kurt vises can be found used for pretty cheap. I was too cheap to pay for the DRO to be installed by PM, so I bought my own from TPAC Tools. I'm happy with TPAC and the DRO, but installation was a pain. For only a couple hundred extra bucks I could have had a nicer DRO installed by people who do this on a daily basis. If you are looking at a PM mill, pay the extra bucks and have them install the DRO. Unless you enjoy that kind of stuff... Also, I do not believe the machine has a coolant option, but it is VERY easy to install coolant. I think I purchased a pump, hoses, and NOGA magnetic coolant base and flexible hose system for less than $50, and had it all installed in less than an hour. I just put a large plastic bin inside the base and used a cheap Chinese fountain pump for the pump. It pumped out way more than I needed it to, but the flow rate is adjustable at the hose. I plugged the pump into a cheap on/off foot pedal switch to control the coolant. Though looking back, flood coolant on manual mills like this is awful. It makes a huge mess! It definitely has it's applications, but I now prefer just a simple spray bottle.

*Final Machine Review*
Well I outgrew the mill and needed something that could get the job done more efficiently and faster. So 3 years after the initial purchase, I sold the machine. One of the best parts about this mill was the resale value! I was not expecting this at all, but I listed the machine for sale for $1,500 and it sold for the asking price that same day! I had tons of people calling me from all across the country asking if it was still available. One person told me I had it up for sale for way too cheap. So I only had 3 years of experience on this mill. Even though the second half of it's life with me was used in an industrial application, it rarely saw industrial use. As previously stated, it was often used as just a drill press, So I really didn't get to really put it to the test. But here's what went bad and when and what happened with it:

The quill DRO went out on me after the first 6 months. I contacted PM about it, they said they would send me one right away and it never came. Contacted them again, they apologized and said they thought it had already been sent out so they again said it would be sent out right away. Still never showed up. I had an old scale type DRO very similar to the ones on the quill installed by PM, so I just cut down the scale to fit and swapped it out myself. This wasn't a big deal to me.

Mill started leaking oil at the quill right around 2-1/2 years. I contacted PM, they told me it was the spindle seals and sent me a new set right away. This one actually showed up 3 days later and they sent me the link here to the instructions. After seeing how much work it was, I opted to let it leak. It was a very slow leak anyway.

I broke both the X and Y-axis handles by year 2. This was primarily due to the set screw on the handles coming loose and the handles falling off. After 2 years of the handles falling to the floor, they were both broken and unusable. I inquired about the price for new handles at the same time the spindle seals went bad and they sent me two new handles for free. I offered to at least pay shipping and they refused. The shafts the handles go on have threaded holes at the end, I recommend putting a screw and washer in right away to further help prevent the handles from falling off! Not sure if these were originally included or not. Maybe I accidentally threw them away.

Start capacitor went bad right at year 3. I blame this one on my machinist as he was using the mill for power tapping and kept turning the mill on and off, forward to reverse very rapidly for several days. These motors aren't meant for that. I contacted PM about it, they told me it was the start capacitor, and offered to ship a new one or they gave me the specs to the capacitor and said any motor shop should have a replacement for cheap if I wanted it up and running that day. PM had been good to me so I told them I would buy it locally. Stopped by the local motor shop and they said the capacitor was a very strange size and they had nothing in stock to replace it. Contacted PM again, this time I told them I wanted to pay for the item and shipping to make sure I got the right replacement part. They refused and shipped me out a new one for free. Well the part got lost in the mail, so I went back to the motor shop after a couple weeks, there was a different guy there, and he almost instantly pulled out a replacement capacitor that would work. It cost $8 I think and took me all of 5 minutes to replace it. The start capacitor from PM did show up a couple weeks ago in a box from Global Industrial. 

*Overall*
Overall I have to say that the saying "you get what you pay for" does not exactly apply here. Yes, it's true these are Chinese machines, they're not the highest quality, but relatively speaking, this machine is cheaper than the other mills of similar size and yet I have a hard time believing any of the other companies would offer the quality of customer service as offered at Precision Matthews. They are a great group of people (I've dealt with 3 of them), very honest, and I truly felt as though they had my best interest in mind. If you are looking for hobby grade mill, the PM-932 is the way to go. If you are looking for a production mill, or something to save you time, look into an older, used machine. Just my two cents.

Thanks a lot Precision Matthews!


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## kennyv

some asked in a other post  How long it takes to get machine and promised date when ordering  or something ..   Below was  reply .. I fig this is a good place to post it as well .  Btw I like  to read reviews before considering  purchasing products myself . You may always get someone with a  bad experience somehow because something didn't go right . Things happen  electrical stuff burns out ... mechanical things break....... life throws us curve balls health issues  family relationships workers ect.......
 Things happen but does not take away from someone's integrity in how they run a business.  I  too do not have any affiliation With PM or Matt  only a costumer  giving a review. 




Good things come to he who waits ... Btw My Mill is in stock 2 left as of yesterday PM932PDF and my name is on one. The lathe I ordered PM10x22V is ready to ship as well . Sure I had to wait and im glad I did......

Now knowing what I know about Precision Mathews and speaking with Matt but a few times. Sales help Knowledge of Equipment and "Machine building" not to mention Impeccable customer service . Down to Just talking shop with someone who knows what they are talking about . I would never have it any other way. Again knowing what I know and what Matt knows about his products Id wait 6 months to a year to get what I wanted and be totally content ....would ya marry someone after the first date?..... I hope not Bc to make an important decision that requires a life time commitment you would want to grow that relationship with Loyally trust and of course love. Matt is ole school machinist knows how his equipment works. Top shelf guy and gives it to ya straight . I believe hes been doin what he is doing for 15-20 years. He's not some wealthy salesmen looking to make a quick buck.

Btw in the past I made the mistake and ordered a machine from another machine importer and I received a broken machine that I really wanted bad . So I spent 12 hours taken apart the carriage box to get it feed working and still was not satisfied with the overall performance of machine in how both feeds worked. Tight and dangerous. Please don't ask what Co .. impolite I got a dud a However I still think they never perfected that new mod either.
So I took the loss and shipped it back..... Glad I did too Bc now im getting A PM Lathe . Anyways They were nice enough to Honor my words in what I had to do to get it going and split the shipping cost . whatevererrrr
.However before I even had machine shipped ( I made it clear) and had asked if they can check the machine out and obviously they didn't my hardship at my expense... Was sent a lathe with a broken cross feed. Again Im g looking forward to getting a precision Mathews lathe.. because I am confident it should work fine and I should have the machine for a long long time.. Sorry so long but had to share my 2 cents worth ... In prob 5-10 more days I know ill be a happy camper ... been dreaming my whole life about one day getting a lathe and mill in my garage.


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## Uguessedit

Good to hear. I have a pm833t and it hasn’t been without issue although it’s used everyday. Blew the gearbox twice now it sits. I could call them but it took 2 months to get the last part so I’m considering buying a knee mill from them and finish the CNC conversion I planned for the pm833t anyways. It’s already half there with control box installed and 8000rpm capable motor, vfd, and upgrades spindle bearings so I’m at that point I either drop a bt30 cartridge in The head and use a knee mill to finish the big chore work like cutting the dovetails away and installing hiwin rails since they’re showing wear after 1.5 years even though oiled regularly. I got a slight dud and I think it’s even possible the shipping company may have damaged the x axis acme screw since it had eaten up a few lead nuts already. I will say it’s rigid as all be. I had no issues cutting into 8620, 4140, or any other material similar with a 1/2” 5 flute and aggressive cutting. I have ac servo drives installed in the cabinet, 1 micron dro I’d move over to a knee mill, and despite the issues it’s been one of my favorites. I have a grizzly rf45 clone, Enco, and others and built a CNC router that can machine aluminum with easy, probably even steel but I don’t have a desire to try. My lathe on the other hand purchased from someone else has been impossible to get replacement parts a year later and I’ve been waiting. Calling them month after month and yet nothing. So for that I made my own bronze nuts to buy me time and that’s getting converted to CNC. That has a great chassis it’s solid, filled with epoxy granite, no twist, and level to .0002 end to end so it will make a nice conversion which it’s already halfway there too. Customer service counts, and especially if they have the patience to deal with grumpy old men who are making some money at home. I even debated another bench mill but 4 is enough it’s time for something bigger and I have no room for a much needed vmc despite I see them cheap all the time. Unfortunately getting one in a garage is a feat and not to many exist to clear 7 feet. I also agree it’s good to know they can talk shop and understand the issues. Not so much at other places where I couldn’t get a simple answer about a machine spec requiring a 2.5 hour tear down to get the measurements needed. If they sell the machine and know the machines then that’s hard to beat when you need service or simple specifications.


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## wrmiller

I'd buy a new Taiwan mill or lathe from Matt before even considering a used machine. Actually, I did just that! 

OP: Sounds like you've had a pretty good experience with PM so far. Good for you! I've had three of Matt's machines over the years, two mills and a lathe, and I've been very happy with PM's customer service since day one.


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## hotrats

OP was in 2015, about the time I purchased my mill. Upgraded at the time, since the 727's I wanted weren't in stock. Happy that I upgraded to the 940, great machine! Didn't know anything about milling then, only thing I would change in hindsight, would be spend the extra and get a knee mill. Would actually be overkill in my case, as I've never exceeded the 940 capabilities. I went on to buy a 1236 lathe, and am very happy with it, PM, the staff and service. Great company to work with!!


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## Uguessedit

wrmiller said:


> I'd buy a new Taiwan mill or lathe from Matt before even considering a used machine. Actually, I did just that!
> 
> OP: Sounds like you've had a pretty good experience with PM so far. Good for you! I've had three of Matt's machines over the years, two mills and a lathe, and I've been very happy with PM's customer service since day one.



I just came across an offer I can’t refuse. I was looking on Matt’s site at knee mills but for what I do a bed mill would be more ideal, larger platform, more reliable, and no doubt it will be far more rigid at 5-6000lbs so in looking around and making a couple phone calls a local company called me back and asked if I’d want a cnc versus a manual. I said if the cost is affordable and fits in my garage I would absolutely consider it. Low and behold they are taking an Atrump BF6c out of a local college that’s been rarely used. In other words they say it’s in like new condition for its age. I looked online and I see that exact same model selling between $15- $25k depending on condition and they still don’t look as nice. So this dealer setup an appointment for me to go to the college on Tuesday and look at it. If I want it they told me $6500 it’s mine and it is already 4 axis ready with a 5hp BT40 4000rpm spindle. Toss in a vfd it can run much faster spindle speeds and if I separate off the control power to its own 220v connection I will have a very nice machine. I get the desire to buy new versus old but honestly I’m tired of breakage and down time and frankly hobby grade equipment. I see solid 5,000 pound bed mills needing a control and servos for $2,000 often and the fact is they make good sense to buy. Already have ball screws so really it’s rip the controls out, strip the wiring, toss on a vfd, some decent servos for another $1500 and the reality is for $2-$3k more you will have essentially a new machine that will put perform anything else you can find hobby grade, including Tormach. Of course i do use all my equipment everyday (7 days) so that’s a consideration plus a 50” table with 40” x and 20” travels is perfect. I could drop any of my bench columns or bases on it and accurately machine for hiwin rails and reconfigure them exactly how I want to optimize their performance. And., Besides that I get the luxury of another Centroid control since recently I began learning their system anyways and with all the time I’ve spent figuring it out it behooves me to setup all my equipment with Centroid systems so now I have 3 acorn systems and will be adding to it the list a T-400. Digitizing is a big plus along with conversational offered by centroid and features that fit within the scope of work I do so not everything needs to be cad/cam which also saves some time. Now the atrump cuts at 120ipm which isn’t lightning fast but most bench mills cannot do that. If I want to eventually I can upgrade its servos and they should be compatible with centroids pre existing control. So lots of benefits of used equipment especially where a deal may come along. If you have the space 9 feet by 6 feet floor in my case then I’d say do it. I have to send a cnc bench mill out the door to fit it but it’s a small sacrifice for a better more reliable, mechanically Sound milling machine. Hard to shake a stick at that. I do want to get that PM730M cast stand for my 833 and fill it full of concrete or epoxy granite while tear it down and prepare for a solid 5 axis upgrade to it. With 10 pitch ball screws and 750w 90 bodied AC motors (2.8kw for the z axis) on the shelf that should rip when it’s finished. I think the potential for some of the pm platforms is good if one could buy just the castings. I bet they’d sell for those of us doing cnc builds. Considering that’s really the only thing I’m using original Ian. The base, column, and table. I even have a different head unit for it if I decide to go that far. Ultimately it comes down to your needs. If a weekend warrior you probably don’t need a used industrial sized machine. If I could fit a VMC I wouldn’t hesitate to buy one of those instead.


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## wrmiller

I'm more of a craftsman than a machinist, and would have zero use for a CNC machine of any type. But for those who can use/need one that sounds like a good deal. But what would I know?


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## mrproduxn

I am retired. I spent nearly 30 years as a machinist and in machine shop management. I also spent 10 years or so in Quality Control. I purchased a PM-728V-T Ultra Precision Mill roughly 2 years ago. I usually run 70 to 150 parts on it per month. It has the DRO, X axis power feed and is setup with 2 vises. I ran the machine yesterday for 10 straight hours at 3500 rpm and it still runs flawlessly. I mostly use it for squaring up my sawed stock and for milling 45° chamfers around the squared bodies. This is my prep machine for my CNC Masters mill. I have made around 100 specialty parts with milling, drilling, countersinking and tapping. The machine itself is great. It is built in Taiwan and I have not even made any gib adjustments. Trammed the head 1 time.  Cuts square mills smooth and is as accurate in X & Y as a $150k machine. It is actually a much better built mill than my cnc. It has never stalled on me but 90% of my work is on 6061 aluminum running from 1/8" to 1" diameter tooling. I do baby it because I want to keep it a very long time. This would make a great cnc machine. Maybe one day.


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## Cletus

Matt and his team at PM are wonderful to deal with.  Bought my PM-935TS-3ph last year, and totally in love with my machine and the support and response from Precision Matthews and Quality Machine Tools. No affiliation other than a happy camper, this thing is AWESOME bang for the buck.


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## jer

I bought my first PM machine from Matt and his crew in 2015. It was a 1030V (which I will probably sell soon), my experience was only using my mentors Sharpe 13X40 lathe which was a great machine. I found a Super-Max 9X49 knee mill, similar to my friends 10X50 Sharpe, locally for a fair price so I bought it. It wasn't a new PM but will do what I ask of it. In less than a year I "needed" bigger lathe so now a PM1440GT on a VFD has been in my shop for several years. I don't deserve such quality machines but how better to spend my son's inheritance in retirement. The great knowledgeable members here, a special thanks to Mark and Jay, have been more than willing to help, which is what it's all about. Thanks H-M for being here for your members.


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## Larry$

I bought a PM1440HD lathe in2016. A long wait to get it. The The MT4 drill chuck and live center didn't fit the MT3 of the machine. They were replaced by PM quickly. The Easson DRO has continued to work well. The lathe has been good but there are things that could have been better made. Nothing that I couldn't fix or live with. I got a 5C chuck & collet set @ the same time, very nice! 

Over time I've bought several PM items all have been decent except the last one. An ER40 chuck. Tech help as been accommodating and they sent a replacement. ER40 to R8 collet chuck runs true and the collet set seems fine. 

This is just a hobby for an old man. If it was my business I would likely not be buying Chinese equipment. But buying from a reliable supplier for my hobby is worth the small % difference in price over gambling with some of the other sellers. Service costs the seller and has a value to the buyer.


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## starr256

I purchased a PM1030V lathe and a PM727V mill in 2018 as a "know-nothing-and-can-guarantee-will-break-something" novice machinist. And sure enough, I did. But with the help of the good folks at PM, my down time was minimal (us old retirees don't have a lot of patience for something that is not working, regardless of who is at fault), cost was nill and I learned a lot about the machines. Are the machines perfect? Like me, no. They are entry level machines. But they come with a 3 year warranty and a capable and understanding crew for support. I am learning how to use them, improving on my repeatability and precision. 
The machines were a gamble, one that has paid off nicely.


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