# This was my project for the weekend ( Ball Mil )l



## Great white hunter (Apr 13, 2014)

I got sick of paying $20.00 a pound for black powder for my cannons and after looking at all the crappy ball mills made on You Tube and the cheap junk on Ebay I decided to make myself a super industrial ball mill. This thing is built like a tank and will last forever.  Built this on Saturday. Can be used to make 20 lbs of black powder In one shot or to tumble 50 lbs of rocks.


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## chuckorlando (Apr 13, 2014)

I aint sure how one makes black powder but that thing looks well put together. It's a tumbler more or less yea?


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## Charley Davidson (Apr 13, 2014)

Nice looking project, looks real professional:man:


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## DMS (Apr 13, 2014)

chuckorlando said:


> I aint sure how one makes black powder but that thing looks well put together. It's a tumbler more or less yea?




A ball mill is basically a tumbler with some sort of media (usually metal balls) and the thing you want to grind. You spin it around for many hours, and the action of the balls smacking into each other (with your materiel in-between) reduces the material to a very fine powder. When doing black powder, you need to be sure to use a metal (like brass) that will not spark for obvious reasons.


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## Great white hunter (Apr 13, 2014)

Ya, I use hardened lead balls. They work very well.





DMS said:


> A ball mill is basically a tumbler with some sort of media (usually metal balls) and the thing you want to grind. You spin it around for many hours, and the action of the balls smacking into each other (with your materiel in-between) reduces the material to a very fine powder. When doing black powder, you need to be sure to use a metal (like brass) that will not spark for obvious reasons.



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Yes, It's a tumbler on steroids. It's a little over built for a tumbler but I have a habbit of over building everything I make. 





chuckorlando said:


> I aint sure how one makes black powder but that thing looks well put together. It's a tumbler more or less yea?


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## RandyM (Apr 14, 2014)

Great white hunter said:


> Yes, It's a tumbler on steroids. It's a little over built for a tumbler but I have a habbit of over building everything I make.



I like how you think. Nice job!


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## chuckorlando (Apr 14, 2014)

If it aint a race car or air plane your better off over built . Would this work to clean parts like a vibrator or does it just break things down?


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## Charley Davidson (Apr 14, 2014)

chuckorlando said:


> If it aint a race car or air plane your better off over built . Would this work to clean parts like a vibrator or does it just break things down?



With the right media it would debur/clean parts I think you would need water in it also.


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## chuckorlando (Apr 14, 2014)

Charley you ever eat at Kirkenburts? Our old Buddy Tom owns that place. Got a buddy named Gary Wyatt in your town as well


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## Great white hunter (Apr 14, 2014)

Yes you can also clean parts. You just use corn cob as a tumbling media.





chuckorlando said:


> If it aint a race car or air plane your better off over built . Would this work to clean parts like a vibrator or does it just break things down?


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## Charley Davidson (Apr 14, 2014)

chuckorlando said:


> Charley you ever eat at Kirkenburts? Our old Buddy Tom owns that place. Got a buddy named Gary Wyatt in your town as well



Never ate there or even knew it existed but I googled it & it is on my bucket list for eating. It's only a long mile from my shop. They have a 4 out of 5 star rating on most searches .

You'll have to come visit & we can go there and eat, if you buy I'll even take you to our very coveted scrap yard.:rofl::roflmao:


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## chuckorlando (Apr 14, 2014)

I dont eat BBQ but I love Toms bbq. We buy his bbq sauce to ship here to Fl ahahahaha. I'll hold ya to the scrap yard for sure )


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## cjtoombs (Apr 14, 2014)

I hope that you are using that in a remote location, and taking proper precautions for grounding.  I've worked with explosives before, and black powder is actualy one of the scarier ones.  It is extremely static sensitive and somewhat friction sensitive.  And having 20lbs of black powder with a bunch of steel balls mixed in with it going off when you are anywhere near it would be your last mistake.  Frankly, any milling of black powder should be done with several feet of earth and concrete between you and that mill while it is running.  All pouring should be done with grounded, conductive containers and funnels.  You should be wearing conductive shoes, on a conductive surface while you are working with it.  These precautions are usualy not taken by home reloaders, but they generaly are not working with lethal amounts of black powder, either.


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## Great white hunter (Apr 14, 2014)

I do it out side on a nice day in the shade. I have a 8 foot deep grounding rod in the ground that I use to tumble black powder. I also use a 100 foot extension cord to start it up. Believe me I am no where near that thing when power is to it. I have a lot of property so there is no danger if there should be ignition. I have been doing this for 11 years now with no problems.


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## AlanR (Apr 14, 2014)

Great white hunter said:


> I do it out side on a nice day in the shade. I have a 8 foot deep grounding rod in the ground that I use to tumble black powder. I also use a 100 foot extension cord to start it up. Believe me I am no where near that thing when power is to it. I have a lot of property so there is no danger if there should be ignition. I have been doing this for 11 years now with no problems.



Well, if you one day stop posting here we can all speculate on the reason why.


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## ScrapMetal (Apr 14, 2014)

Great white hunter said:


> I do it out side on a nice day in the shade. I have a 8 foot deep grounding rod in the ground that I use to tumble black powder. I also use a 100 foot extension cord to start it up. Believe me I am no where near that thing when power is to it. I have a lot of property so there is no danger if there should be ignition. I have been doing this for 11 years now with no problems.



It sounds like you take proper precautions.  Guys, even if that container were to "spark off" the main concern would be the shockwave produced by the blast itself and not "ballistic bearing" shrapnel.  While the container it's in may be air/water tight I highly doubt that it would allow the build up of pressure to make a spectacular explosion.  Because the ball bearings are interspursed within the powder itself (as opposed to being arranged on the outside of the "pressure vessel") it's highly unlikely that they would do much of anything.  Your greatest possible cause of "shrapnel" would be the shards of the pvc(?) container itself.  I wouldn't want to be standing next to it but his precautions sound more than adequate to me.

Nice build by the way!

JMHO

-Ron


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## cjtoombs (Apr 14, 2014)

Great white hunter said:


> I do it out side on a nice day in the shade. I have a 8 foot deep grounding rod in the ground that I use to tumble black powder. I also use a 100 foot extension cord to start it up. Believe me I am no where near that thing when power is to it. I have a lot of property so there is no danger if there should be ignition. I have been doing this for 11 years now with no problems.



Glad to see you are taking precautions.  With that said, pouring into and out of the tumbler would be my bigest worry.  To reduce the posibility of ESD (ElectroStatic Discharge) igniting it, I would use metal containers and funels, and put them on a grounded surface for pouring.  Also, using a wrist strap, like the ones used to work on sensitive electronoics, that is grounded would also be prudent.  Black powder doesn't need much confinement to cause an explosion, and if a static spark ignited it and it flashed back into the tumbling container, it could be a problem.  When I was working explosives, we did a project with black powder (very simmilar to what you are doing), and the majority of the precautions we had to take were for ESD.  Have fun and be safe.


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## Great white hunter (Apr 15, 2014)

I like the wrist strap idea. I think I will do that. I don't mix 30 lbs of powder at one time. At most I do is 10 lbs.  I can do 30 lbs but it scares the heck out of me to do that much. 





cjtoombs said:


> Glad to see you are taking precautions.  With that said, pouring into and out of the tumbler would be my bigest worry.  To reduce the posibility of ESD (ElectroStatic Discharge) igniting it, I would use metal containers and funels, and put them on a grounded surface for pouring.  Also, using a wrist strap, like the ones used to work on sensitive electronoics, that is grounded would also be prudent.  Black powder doesn't need much confinement to cause an explosion, and if a static spark ignited it and it flashed back into the tumbling container, it could be a problem.  When I was working explosives, we did a project with black powder (very simmilar to what you are doing), and the majority of the precautions we had to take were for ESD.  Have fun and be safe.



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one day when I feel like wasting alot of powder I will ignite 10 lbs of powder in one of those containers to see just how big of an explosion I will get so I know what I'm in for if something would go wrong. I only do 10 lbs at once and like you said I don'y think You would get a very large explosion with a rubber cap on the container. I think the cap would just pop off and have a very large flame. If I ever do this I will post the results with a video.





ScrapMetal said:


> It sounds like you take proper precautions.  Guys, even if that container were to "spark off" the main concern would be the shockwave produced by the blast itself and not "ballistic bearing" shrapnel.  While the container it's in may be air/water tight I highly doubt that it would allow the build up of pressure to make a spectacular explosion.  Because the ball bearings are interspursed within the powder itself (as opposed to being arranged on the outside of the "pressure vessel") it's highly unlikely that they would do much of anything.  Your greatest possible cause of "shrapnel" would be the shards of the pvc(?) container itself.  I wouldn't want to be standing next to it but his precautions sound more than adequate to me.
> 
> Nice build by the way!
> 
> ...


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## cjtoombs (Apr 15, 2014)

ScrapMetal said:


> It sounds like you take proper precautions. Guys, even if that container were to "spark off" the main concern would be the shockwave produced by the blast itself and not "ballistic bearing" shrapnel. While the container it's in may be air/water tight I highly doubt that it would allow the build up of pressure to make a spectacular explosion. Because the ball bearings are interspursed within the powder itself (as opposed to being arranged on the outside of the "pressure vessel") it's highly unlikely that they would do much of anything. Your greatest possible cause of "shrapnel" would be the shards of the pvc(?) container itself. I wouldn't want to be standing next to it but his precautions sound more than adequate to me.
> 
> Nice build by the way!
> 
> ...




It takes very little confinement for the burn rate of black powder to jump up to "explosive" levels.  That container with the top off would be sufficient.  Black powder will not detonate; it works as an overpressure explosion, which generally rips the surrounding objects into larger chunks than a detonation does.  The finely ground nature of the final product will also increase burn rates.  It's not like smokeless powder; it is in fact quite dangerous to work with.


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## melsdad (Apr 16, 2014)

I go through a good bit of black powder. About 5-6 pounds a year when I am shooting a lot. I have had thoughts of making my own, but they quickly exit my mind. The last case I bought was $13.10 a pound. So it is still justifiable for me to purchase rather than make I would never pay $20.00 a pound either.


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## Great white hunter (Apr 16, 2014)

I just found a place on the net that sells it for $60.00 for 10 lbs.


melsdad said:


> I go through a good bit of black powder. About 5-6 pounds a year when I am shooting a lot. I have had thoughts of making my own, but they quickly exit my mind. The last case I bought was $13.10 a pound. So it is still justifiable for me to purchase rather than make I would never pay $20.00 a pound either.


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## melsdad (Apr 16, 2014)

Is that canon powder, 2FF, or doesn't it matter? 

sent from my hand held hickymajig


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