# 1940 South Bend 11" 111B 105014 IQR Rebuild By Ulma Doctor



## Ulma Doctor

I'm making this thread to educate any single person that is willing to read, or just look at some pictures and post a comment or ask a question.
i promise to keep this thread open until completion.
this thread is for you, the Interested...
thanks for viewing.


I recently acquired on trade a south bend 11" X5' bed catalog 111B S/N 105014 IQR lathe from a great guy in the Sacramento area...you know who you are!!!  thanks again!!
The South Bend Lathe was distributed by Moore Machinery Los Angeles/San Francisco under contract with the United States Naval Yard at Mare Island , Vallejo Ca.

http://www.charlesmoore2.com       is a great historical link. for those interested.

This is Henrietta,
my first South Bend lathe.
She has made her share of parts to defend democracy and protect the rights that, all to often, are forgotten.
As repayment for her service, i will restore the old girl first to working condition.
then i'll get her hair done and paint on her nails and such....


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## Taz

Ulma Doctor said:


> then i'll get her hair done and paint on her nails and such....



LOL, that's the best machine intro I've ever read!  

Welcome back!  I was more than a little disappointed to read your last thread would not continue.  Looking forward to the "makeover" .


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## Ulma Doctor

thanks taz,
the posting is for guys like you who appreciate old iron machinery.
i'll be posting all kinds of information as this thread progresses.
 some of the information will be a ditto from the first thread, for that i apologize in advance.
i'm treating this a brand new thread and will start with the basic information, then move into the rest of the process.

feel free anyone, at any time, to ask questions. i'll be happy to reply with the information i have.
this is intended to be a full disclosure build.
enjoy, and as always thanks for viewing.


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## woodtickgreg

Glad to see that you are able to continue entertaining and educating us with this lathe refurb. It will be fun to watch it progress and I'm sure others will learn and benefit from the work. Looking forward to new pics.
Greg


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## Ulma Doctor

Greg,
With great pride and clear intention the project will continue to unfold.
on a personal note, i wish to thank you publicly for you words of encouragement and interest in this project.
the updated thread exists directly due to our conversations. your words have impacted deeper than you may realize.
 the second thread exists for you and anyone else interested alike...

as always, thank you for prior,present, and future support on this project i will do my very best for her and for you, 
the Interested....


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## Ulma Doctor

When Henrietta left her last home, she was lifted from a pedestal of furniture dollies by chain to my awaiting trailer by forklift.
that was to be the easiest part of the journey to her current resting spot. Before receiving Henrietta,
i had a little better than 2 days to hear quite a few of my friends and family about how this mission should be aborted, and what was i thinking:nuts: . I traded a perfectly working lathe for another non working lathe, that hasn't worked in decades possibly.
This is when i new it was for the love of the machine and complete confidence in myself to achieve any end.
this is not the safest road to walk, i do not suggest following my footsteps as i metaphorically tread with rattlesnakes at times, and have fallen in pits as well.

i saw weight estimations from a couple of sources for my lathe being somewhere in the neighborhood for 1400LBS and some change. (edit:The actual weight advertized by SB was 1140 lbs)
i'm not a stranger to moving heavy equipment, but i got guff from all my people about how it's going to be impossible to move and so on, that's when i knew i was on the right track....
i resolved to move this machine from the trailer to it's resting spot with no help from anyone using only what i had at my disposal.
i have a lot of tools so, the feat is not as grand really.....using a 6' lever and 1"fulcrum, i set her on wood 2x4's , then increased the height of the fulcrum to 2". i levered the mass onto wood 4x4 blocks, then replaced the 2" fulcrum with a 4" fulcrum to get the height necessary to set on a dolly, then lowered onto the dolly by reversing the block up process. i did not place a dolly under the lighter end, figuring for maximum stability i would keep her legs touching terra firma. the heavy end was at the rear of the trailer at this point. i connected a come along to the central bed casting and pushed the lathe until it went over the hinge of the trailer tailgate and taunt on the comealong cable. it mas merely a matter of letting out cable in a controlled manner from the comealong, using her ponderous bulk to easily lower her from the trailer. at this point i man handled this chunk of iron an steel to it's place of rest. i then set the blocking back up to remove the dolly and set her to the floor once again.
i was able to move her against others' declarations of improbability. i'm sure it will not be the last time i do something another may say is improbable... just because, i can.
as always, thanks for following and reading the progress


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## woodtickgreg

With a big enough lever I can move the world! LOL


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## stevecmo

Aaahhhhhh...........truly a thing of beauty!  I can't wait.


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## ScrapMetal

Ulma Doctor said:


> This is when i new it was for the love of the machine and complete confidence in myself to achieve any end.
> this is not the safest road to walk, i do not suggest following my footsteps as i metaphorically tread with rattlesnakes at times, and have fallen in pits as well.



You've just described the majority of the folks on this forum. :biggrin:  Most of us get a little "funny" (and I don't mean "ha, ha") around the old machinery so count yourself in good company.

I'm looking forward to seeing this come together for you.  If you run in to any kind of problem don't be shy.  There is a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge on this board and most everyone is very willing to offer assistance.

-Ron


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## Ulma Doctor

thank you very much, Ron
i will be hitting you up for some info soon.


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## Ulma Doctor

One of the first operations i attempted was to start the drive motor.


the motor didn't want to turn and sounded like rocks were inside the motor. on the bench i saw what appeared to be dirt clods inside the motor. i disassembled the motor and this fell out among other smaller pieces and dust.








I'll be sure to but heart back in as soon as i clean up the motor mounting.
thanks for looking, and supporting this build!


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## Ulma Doctor

i wanted to take a minute to talk about rust removal and a method i had learned a long time ago but haven't used much due to my mostly working with metals that don't rust easily.
the process is called electrolytic rust removal.
it is best performed on metal (steel/iron) that is free of oil.
the process can be used on oily items but it doesn't do the job as quickly or thoroughly . if a picture is worth a thousand words,
here's 2 pictures...




you can leave the battery charger plugged in for hours without damage on older units, some newer units will shut themselves off if a short circuit is detected.
i have left parts going overnight in extreme cases, they turn out beautifully!
rinse parts with clean water and brush any scale off with a steel or nylon brush.
i always blow dry with compressed air and coat with oil immediately. the iron/steel parts will literally begin to rust in seconds exposed to air.
thanks for looking!


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## Chuck K

It's always good to watch someone else do all the dirty work...lol.  Should be an interesting thread.


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## woodtickgreg

The dirt clods look like the work of mud dauber wasp. They get in the darndest places.


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## Ulma Doctor

yes sir, they got in the motor and kept it from turning over!


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## Ulma Doctor

i wanted to take the time to thank George Wilson for his input on another thread regarding penetrating fluids.
the recipe is quite simple:
1 part Automatic Transmission Fluid 
1 part Acetone 
mix them up and apply to the intended surfaces, be careful it loosens paint as a side effect
if you are patient, and apply the mixture for a few days it works miracles.
i was able to remove the chuck on Henrietta without any cussing involved
i made the mixture, applied it to the spindle/chuck connection gave the assembly a few taps with a soft faced hammer. and repeated the process for 3 days.
on the third day, it was a matter of slightly holding the spindle with a strap wrench. the chuck took less than 20ft lbs to back it off.
no damage to gearing or the chuck or spindle.
thanks George!!!
:man:


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## george wilson

I rebuilt a SB lathe somewhat larger than that in the 70's. I took it all to pieces and with a friend,carried everything into the shop. After I got it rebuilt,I sold it to a motorcycle repair shop. About 8 real large guys came in and CARRIED the whole,assembled lathe out!!


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## Ulma Doctor

One of the most disturbing of the findings came from the compound rest





as you can see the damage to the compound is severe, but not out of the range of repair.

i slathered a mixture of George Wilson's ATF/Acetone  and let her set for about a week.
i applied the mix daily at night and in the morning. it goes a long way if you mix in small batches.
I removed the compound dovetail bolts and pins and was able to lift the compound from the base
with relative ease even though the machined tolerances were tight and the compound hasn't been removed in decades i fear.
i deposited the parts a few at a time to the electrolytic bath and let the Borax,dishsoap, electricity,and water go to work.
in a short period of time i was very impressed by the results. i'm still toying with the length of time to keep in the slurry but it appears the longer the better. i'm sure there are limitations to the process but i'm liking the results so far.
i have oiled the parts in between soaking cycles to keep from rusting.
a quick blast of carb cleaner or brake clean does wonders for oil removal, before re soaking in the electrolytic tank.
i'll post more pictures of the finished pieces on a later post.
thanks for viewing the work in progress!


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## Ulma Doctor

A taper rig was included with Henrietta, sans the rear bed guide




it's mostly rusted but no pitting is evident, in time the taper rig will get the rust bath treatment like a whole bunch of other parts.
the taper rig is an amazingly heavy duty piece of work, i'll be excited to put the old girl to the test!
I'm on the look out for taper attachment parts, shoot me a message if you have a source, i'd Greatly appreciate it!!
thanks for the continued interest in the project!


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## Ulma Doctor

George Wilson had asked on the old post how much up and down clearance was present at the chuck and mentioned that there was not much you could do with it if it was to be too worn ...anic:.
i went quickly to get the Dial Indicator , a chunk of rod and the chuck wrench. to my relief there was only .002" of deflection
here are some pictures of the spindle and caps...











the spindle is in excellent condition, as well as the caps. this alleviates a lot of area of concern as far as the headstock is concerned.


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## ScrapMetal

That compound has definitely seen better days.  If you decide it's time to retire it I think Joe at Plaza Machinery has a compound for an 11" - http://www.plazamachinery.com/  Just look through his "Metalworking machinery list" to see what's available.  I've done business with him in the past and he's been good to deal with.  I'm told that he does have some health issues and isn't always the quickest to return inquiries though.

-Ron


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## woodtickgreg

The spindle bearings look good and the caps have shims so they can be adjusted. That's a good thing.


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## Ulma Doctor

ScrapMetal said:


> That compound has definitely seen better days.  If you decide it's time to retire it I think Joe at Plaza Machinery has a compound for an 11" - http://www.plazamachinery.com/  Just look through his "Metalworking machinery list" to see what's available.  I've done business with him in the past and he's been good to deal with.  I'm told that he does have some health issues and isn't always the quickest to return inquiries though.
> 
> -Ron


thanks Ron for the parts source!

i'm going to attempt the compound repair by brazing to fill up the lows, then draw file, sand and paint.
the process will be detailed in another posting as the thread progresses.

thank you Ron and to all, for all your input, as well as your continued interest in Henrietta...


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## Ulma Doctor

woodtickgreg said:


> The spindle bearings look good and the caps have shims so they can be adjusted. That's a good thing.



thanks Greg,
the shims are brass, and they are .001" thick each, an ingenious method of reducing the journal clearance quickly.
although there are limitations, the bearing surface becomes oval as a result of wear and how the bearings are pinched together.
of course it will literally take in the order of hundreds of thousands of revolutions, possibly millions to wear the old girl out .
i have been told in many ways from many people the importance of lubing your machinery EVERYTIME you use it.
 enough of the soap box :soapbox:...

i was more than a little relieved when i took the spindle caps off and the sight below was very nice.
there was still liquid oil present on the spindle journals as well as the caps.
the pictures are showing dark bands on the spindle, but this is not the case in natural light.
 i'm not sure as to why the iphone's camera picked them up . the journals are as smooth as glass, no ridging or no bumps:thumbsup:
boy am i glad i didn't fall into the Need a Headstock Pit!!
thanks again Greg!


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## Ulma Doctor

i disassembled the lathe into subgroups:
1, Drive Motor Assembly
2, Carriage/Apron/Compound Assemblies, removed as an assembly.
3, Taper attachment
4, Tailstock 
5 ,Headstock, is still assembled on lathe bed
6, Lower countershaft assembly
7, Accessories and Goodies


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## Ulma Doctor

i also wanted to echo many previous postings by others with a recipe for Col. Ed's Red Antirust
1 part Automatic Transmission Fluid
1 part Kerosene
1 part Mineral Spirits
1 part Acetone

Mix and apply to parts to be protected, be cautious the mix is most likely flammable and it has a paint removal quality!


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## Ulma Doctor

i was going to spend the late afternoon working on Henrietta until a got the call for a special build ,for a special customer...:soldier1:
my 2 1/2 yr old son Mike Jr....








Yeah, sure it took a grueling 15 minutes to trick this mad scooter out. it was worth every second of it:saluteflag:
lubed with mobil 1 synthetic grease. i even used high speed wheel retaining cotter pins rather than the stock internal star retainers. I figure that you'll never see the star type retainers used at Bonneville,  why on earth would i use them on this high speed sled . i cross drilled the 10mm axle to accept a 1/8" stainless steel cotter, figuring with the solid wheels and the wedge i put on the outside rear, we should be top 3  at Taledega. if we get a good run, may even take Michigan. if i ditch the small wedge an go for 2" we'll stay in the groove. But i think NASTRIKE inspectors are gonna see the extra fuel tank i embedded inside the frame. we had sit out for 4 races last time.... dang, i hope they don't jack it up in tech:rofl:

thanks for reading the special job notes from the shop, my pleasure as always.


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## Taz

Yes, that is the MOST important build.  The 3 and 4 wheel builds don't last long, they disappear for a decade, and when they come back, the only emotion they inspire is fear!  

Always good to see those men who love their toys, but still put first what SHOULD come first.


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## Ulma Doctor

thank you for the info Roncoo!
 Swarf inside the motor is a bad thing . 
A chip guard or screens would prevent nasty stuff getting in for sure!


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## Ulma Doctor

I haven't had a lot to write about about the project worth summarizing at this point. i'm doing a lot of degreasing and electrolytic rust removal.
kinda boring stuff, but i'll show some pictures...

 click on the picture for a slightly better detail!






there are a lot of parts being cleaned up, i'll put more detail into the next postings.
As always thanks for reading!


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## woodtickgreg

Enjoying the progress, fun to follow along.


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## Tamper84

Looking good!!!!


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## Ulma Doctor

i was doing a parts search and i found an interesting seller who has the drive belting on EBAY

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e1140...&exe=10013&ext=100025&sojTags=exe=exe,ext=ext

i measured with a piece of string, around the flat countershaft middle pulley, to the spindle flat middle pulley and the tension handle about 7/8 of the way towards tight.
 i got a measurement of 63" for the underdrive system. 
i have all the adjusters more or less set to their midpoints so i have plenty of adjustment longer or shorter in case the belt stretches or lands shorter than anticipated., i know they used to come with leather belts that stretched quite a bit. the new belt is multilayer and synthetic hopefully a winning combo,
any belt input would be appreciated from the readers, i'm trying this belt on the merit of it's cost only. 
i considered a newer rubber belt but i'm trying to keep the spirit of the old way with the metal laced belt, i think it looks cooler.
suggestions anyone?
thanks for reading!!


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## woodtickgreg

I have heard many ways of doing a belt, the original leather with clips, synthetic like the one you are looking at, and automotive serpentine belts either glued or stitched. I researched this quite a bit and read everything I could find on it, all the above will work. the leather will stretch and slip, the synthetic is a better choice as they don't stretch. I chose a serpentine belt as they can be purchased from any auto parts store and grip very good. Some guys glue them but I did not have much success with the glue holding so I just stitched mine. The thing that's cool about a serpentine belt is they don't have to be run really tight as they are so grippy. I used braided wire to stitch mine but kevlar thread and stainless wire was also suggested as well as braided dacron fishing line. I could probably right a book on just this topic but this is the basics. You can also look in my heavy 10 build thread at some pics of when I did mine.


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## Ulma Doctor

"You can also look in my heavy 10 build thread at some pics of when I did mine."

Thanks Greg,
 i have been bouncing around so much trying to learn EVERYTHING I can about these south bends, that i haven't read your entire article as of yet.
i got bitten by a heard of the SB bugs. that dang lathe is becoming an obsession.....:help:
My problem is that i'm trying NOT to treat this project like she's a job at my normal work... 
i tend to do things very quickly, like a one man pit crew, and don't take much time to enjoy the work when i'm at work.
I'm trying to go slow but.....




I'll be reading the rest of your project Greg!
thanks, as always for your input!!


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## woodtickgreg

I totally understand. My shop time is my fun, not my profession, I savor it. It's my therapy, an escape from the madness of the world, I have to create and make things with my hands weather the medium is wood, metal, or simply just building something like a lathe or motorcycle or chainsaw or whatever. I scored a burke #4 mill today to play with!


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## ChuckB

Greg's thread has been very helpful to me. I am constantly going back to it to see "how Greg did it". Between his thread, the restore book, and helpful members in the forum, all my bases are covered. Also Latheman has been a good source of parts, he has yet to let me down, filling all my part requests...fast shipping too. I have a ways to go on my 10L and can't yet see the light at the end of the tunnel, but by making it a point to do something on the lathe, no matter how small every couple of days or so, it will eventually get done. Can't say I enjoy doing it, but I do love to look at the final results once a piece is completed... but wait.. with that being said, I guess I am enjoying it.  The ways on my Atlas are a little worn and I look forward to having what I hope to be a better machine. I will eagerly be watching your restore/rebuild.


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## Ulma Doctor

Thanks Chuck!!
Greg is a great guy as well as being supremely talented. i aspire to do his level of restoration.
 but i fear time is my enemy.I'm trying to do my normal work on my HF 7x10...not ideal but, keeping me operational. 
i'll need to get Henrietta into the game soon....
i'll look at Latheman, i haven't looked on his site ...
Thanks!


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## woodtickgreg

You guys are giving me a big head. LOL If I have inspired someone then that's a great thing and what it's all about. I am happy that my post are helpful to people. I'm no know it all, I learned as I went along and did my research and learned from others, now maybe it looks like others are learning from me. Everything comes full circle.


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## Ulma Doctor

i'm just glad to be part of that circle!!!:worship:


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## Ulma Doctor

I remember what it was like on Christmas morning as a kid going out and finding presents and just having the feeling of downright joy, for lack of better description.
Well, i got that feeling again from the simplest of items.....:ups:
View attachment 51005


i found 1, pretty good shape i may add

i realize i have gone full tilt when a #74A Half Nut Cam Lever w/ part 272, got me excited...:biggrin:


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## Ulma Doctor

i have completed some rust removal, here are some pictures...





 the saddle came out very clean, very little paint was left on the unit and brushed off easily with a stainless steel brush.

thanks for looking!


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## Ulma Doctor

I purchased an inexpensive belt on Ebay. I did not expect much and wasn't let down. 
the belt seems a little on the slick side, not appearing to have much grip.
 i'm wondering after a period of break in if the belt's surface gets roughed up and grips more...
i'm of the understanding that you don't want to have too much tension on drive belts, especially on non replaceable bearing surfaces, such as in the headstock of good ol' Henrietta.
i like the idea of the serpentine belt, but find the cutting of a perfectly good serpentine belt for installation to be an act of sacrilege...but i guess i have sacrificed more valuable commodities to achieve an end.
i saw another belt prior and was wondering if anyone has tried it? 
it looks stout:thinking:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOUTH-BEND-...042?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43ba8d963a


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## Ulma Doctor

in doing some research, i found an interesting tidbit.
In April 1943 the Submarine - Kingfish SS234 was towed to Mare Island Naval Yard, Vallejo Ca for repairs .
The damage was a result of Japanese Destroyer depth charges. The Japanese Destroyer dropped 40 depth charges, the last 2 were so close to the Sub that the force pushed the Sub to the bottom in 350 ft of water.

Maybe Henrietta had a role, small or large on the Kingfish.
I can only wonder.....

here's the fascinating info i came across.

http://navsource.org/archives/08/pdf/0823414.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Swordfish_(SS-193)

it's an interesting read!!



*1939-1944:* Mare Island reaches its highest productivity during World War II and is one of the busiest shipyards in the world. Employment peaks at 41,000 workers, including 9,000 women. Over 1,000 Quonset huts are built to help house the growing workforce.



thanks for viewing!


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## Ulma Doctor

Mare Island Produced these ships around WWII
​


1918 _Boggs_ – destroyer (World War II)
1918 _Kilty_ – destroyer (Guadalcanal campaign - Philippines campaign (1944-45) - Battle of Okinawa)
1919 _Kennison_ – destroyer (World War II)
1918 _Ward_ - destroyer (Attack on Pearl Harbor – Guadalcanal campaign - Philippines campaign (1944-45))


​
Heavy cruiser USS _San Francisco_.​


1918 _Claxton_ – destroyer (Destroyers for Bases Agreement)[SUP][17][/SUP]
1919 _Hamilton_ – destroyer (invasion of North Africa - Philippines campaign (1944-45))
1920 Montana – battleship (43,200-ton) (scrapped under terms of the Washington Naval Treaty)
1920 _Litchfield_ – destroyer (World War II)
1920 _Zane_ – destroyer (Attack on Pearl Harbor – Guadalcanal campaign)
1921 _Wasmuth_ – destroyer (Attack on Pearl Harbor)
1922 _Trever_ – destroyer (Attack on Pearl Harbor – Guadalcanal campaign)
1922 _Perry_ – destroyer (Attack on Pearl Harbor - Battle of Peleliu)
1922 _Decatur_ – destroyer (World War II)
1927 USS _Nautilus_ – submarine (sank 6 ships in 14 World War II Pacific patrols)[SUP][18][/SUP]
1928 USS _Chicago_ – cruiser (Battle of Savo Island - Battle of Rennell Island)
1931 USS _San Francisco_ – cruiser (Attack on Pearl Harbor - Battle of Cape Esperance - Naval Battle of Guadalcanal - Battle of the Philippine Sea[SUP][19][/SUP] - Philippines campaign (1944-45) - Battle of Okinawa)
1934 USS _Smith_ – destroyer (Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands - Philippines campaign (1944-45))
1934 USS _Preston_ – destroyer (Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands - Naval Battle of Guadalcanal)
1935 USS _Henley_ – destroyer (Attack on Pearl Harbor - Guadalcanal campaign)
With the prelude to, and the outbreak of World War II, the Mare Island Naval Shipyard specialized insubmarines, and other than a few submarine tenders, no more surface ships were built there. MINSY continued building non-nuclear subs through the Cold War including two of the three _Barracuda_-classsubmarines and the _Grayback_, an early guided missile launcher. In 1955, Mare Island was awarded the contract to build _Sargo_, the first nuclear submarine laid down at a Pacific base. The shipyard became one of the few that built and overhauled nuclear submarines, including several UGM-27 Polaris submarines. 1970 saw the launching of USS _Drum_, the last nuclear submarine built in California. In 1972, the Navy officially ceased building new nuclear submarines at Mare Island, though overhaul of existing vessels continued. The _Nautilus_ was decommissioned at Mare Island in 1980, then rigged for towing back to Groton, Connecticut to serve as a museum of naval history.[SUP][20][/SUP]


​
Five of the seven top-scoring United States submarines ofWorld War II were built at Mare Island.​


1936 USS _Pompano_ – submarine (sank 6 ships in 7 World War II Pacific patrols[SUP][21][/SUP])
1936 USS _Sturgeon_ – submarine (sank 9 ships in 11 World War II Pacific patrols[SUP][22][/SUP])
1937 USS _Swordfish_ – submarine (sank 12 ships in 13 World War II Pacific patrols[SUP][23][/SUP])
1939 USS _Fulton_ – submarine tender (World War II)
1939 USS _Tuna_ – submarine (sank 4 ships in 13 World War II Pacific patrols[SUP][24][/SUP])
1939 USS _Gudgeon_ – submarine (sank 11 ships in 12 World War II Pacific patrols[SUP][25][/SUP])
1941 USS _Sperry_ - submarine tender[SUP][26][/SUP] (World War II)
1941 USS _Silversides_ - submarine[SUP][27][/SUP] (sank 23 ships in 14 World War II Pacific patrols (3rd highest number for a U.S. submarine)[SUP][28][/SUP])
1941 USS _Trigger_ - submarine[SUP][27][/SUP] (sank 18 ships in 12 World War II Pacific patrols (11th highest number for a U.S. submarine)[SUP][29][/SUP])
1942 USS _Bushnell_ - submarine tender[SUP][26][/SUP] (World War II)
1942 USS _Wahoo_ - submarine[SUP][30][/SUP] (sank 20 ships in 7 World War II Pacific patrols (6th highest number for a U.S. submarine)[SUP][31][/SUP])
1942 USS _Whale_ - submarine[SUP][30][/SUP] (sank 9 ships in 11 World War II Pacific patrols[SUP][32][/SUP])
1942 USS _Sunfish_ - submarine[SUP][30][/SUP] (sank 15 ships in 11 World War II Pacific patrols[SUP][18][/SUP])
1942 USS _Tunny_ - submarine[SUP][30][/SUP] (sank 7 ships in 9 World War II Pacific patrols[SUP][33][/SUP] Vietnam War)
1942 USS _Tinosa_ - submarine[SUP][30][/SUP] (sank 16 ships in 11 World War II Pacific patrols[SUP][33][/SUP])
1942 USS _Tullibee_ - submarine[SUP][30][/SUP] (sank 3 ships 4 World War II Pacific patrols[SUP][34][/SUP])
1943 USS _Howard W. Gilmore_ - submarine tender[SUP][26][/SUP] (World War II)
1943 USS _Seahorse_ - submarine[SUP][35][/SUP] (sank 20 ships in 8 World War II Pacific patrols (6th highest number for a U.S. submarine)[SUP][36][/SUP])
1943 USS _Skate_ - submarine[SUP][35][/SUP] (sank 10 ships in 7 World War II Pacific patrols[SUP][33][/SUP])
1943 USS _Tang_ - submarine[SUP][35][/SUP] (sank 24 ships in 5 World War II Pacific patrols (2nd highest number for a U.S. submarine)[SUP][37][/SUP])
1943 USS _Tilefish_ - submarine[SUP][35][/SUP] (sank 2 ships 6 World War II Pacific patrols[SUP][38][/SUP])
1944 USS _Spadefish_ - submarine[SUP][39][/SUP] (sank 21 ships in 5 World War II Pacific patrols (4th highest number for a U.S. submarine)[SUP][28][/SUP])
1944 USS _Trepang_ - submarine[SUP][39][/SUP] (sank 11 ships in 5 World War II Pacific patrols[SUP][32][/SUP])
1944 USS _Spot_ - submarine[SUP][39][/SUP] (sank 1 ship in 3 World War II Pacific patrols[SUP][32][/SUP])
1944 USS _Springer_ - submarine[SUP][39][/SUP] (sank 4 ships in 3 World War II Pacific patrols[SUP][32][/SUP])
1945 USS _Nereus_ - submarine tender[SUP][26][/SUP]
1945 USS _Stickleback_ - submarine[SUP][39][/SUP] (1 World War II Pacific patrol[SUP][38][/SUP])
this information was provided by wikipedia.

During World War II the shipyard quickly set a record that was never broken, building the destroyer USS Ward, in 17 1/2 days. In addition to the Ward, Mare Island built 17 submarines, 4 subtenders, 31 destroyer escorts, 33 small craft, and more than 300 landing craft.


In the Battle of Midway, early in June, 1942, another Mare Island submarine, NAUTILUS, the first submarine ever turned out by the Yard, caught up with the 17,500-ton Japanese aircraft carrier Soryu and sank the flat-top. A couple of months later, NAUTILUS was involved in secret operations that included landing "Carlson's Raiders" on Makin Island. By the time she returned to the Gilbert Islands in November 1943, NAUTILUS had landed another load of Marines on Apamama Island and accounted for the sinking of six more Japanese ships.
One week after the bombing of Pearl Harbor the Mare Island built submarine SWORDFISH took an early bit out of the Japanese merchant marine by downing the 8,000-ton cargo ship Atsutasan Maru, the fourth Japanese merchant ship sunk by Allied forces.
costs were high –among the submarines lost were the Mare Island built GUDGEON, POMPANO, SWORDFISH, TANG, TRIGGER, TULIBEE, and WAHOO. These submarines joined the list of 52 submarines lost in that war –amounting to the highest percentage of loss of life of all the armed services.

There is no quiet Arlington for ships; their bones rust in unknown lands beneath the sea. The names that entered history in minutes filled with fire and thunder are soon forgotten, except in long hours of the night when the bells call the roll of missing ships —SEAWOLF . . . .

R.I.P..:saluteflag:
thanks for looking!


----------



## Ulma Doctor

i have recently learned of another electrolytic rust removal process involving Graphite Carbon Rods.
i purchased 2 huge carbon electrodes 5/8" diameter x 18" long.
 these are going to serve as the sacrificial anodes in my electrolytic bath.
unlike using steel or other types of ferrous metal, there is no magnetite (black rust) deposition on the newly de-rusted part, and no red rust will stick to the carbon electrodes.
the newly de-rusted parts will have a thin layer of carbon, that just rinses away rather than having to scrub. here's the link to the site where i saw the process i'm in the process of copying.

www.fordgarage.com/pages/*electrolyticderusting.htm



*it's a great process, the electrolyte can be put on your lawn with no ill effects to grass.
 i have heard shrubs don't don't like too much iron so it's best not to get near them sensitive plants!

i'll take pictures of the new "improved" rig and post soon!
thanks for reading!


----------



## ChuckB

Thanks for the update. Those rods sound like they would be better than just steel. Mine looked horrible only after a little use.

EDIT-----------------------------------


BTW.. I'm not sure Latheman has a web site. I just email him at latheman2@aol.com when I am looking for a part.


----------



## Splat

ChuckB said:


> BTW.. I'm not sure Latheman has a web site. I just email him at latheman2@aol.com when I am looking for a part.



FWIW I've never heard of him having a site. Every time I've seen him communicate with folks he advised to email him at the email addy you give above.


----------



## ChuckB

btw.. the electrolytic rust removal process works okay and is cheap, but if you want to really remove all the rust fast with no effort, get you a 5 gallon bucket of Evaporust. About 70.00, but drop a part in there.. wait a couple/few days and holy crap.. all rust gone 100% ! Best product for rust I have ever used in my many years of trying. non toxic.  I learned about it in this forum. Fantastic!!


----------



## Ulma Doctor

ChuckB said:


> btw.. the electrolytic rust removal process works okay and is cheap, but if you want to really remove all the rust fast with no effort, get you a 5 gallon bucket of Evaporust. About 70.00, but drop a part in there.. wait a couple/few days and holy crap.. all rust gone 100% ! Best product for rust I have ever used in my many years of trying. non toxic.  I learned about it in this forum. Fantastic!!



thanks Chuck!!
i've only heard of the stuff...never seen it!
you got me curious now...
does it come off easily for painting?
do you rinse it off with water??


----------



## Splat

http://evaporust.com/  I've heard about it but it's too $$ for me. Elbow grease, degreaser, and Acetone have been working fine for me buuuut..... I just picked up a quart of Citristrip and will try that on my headstock. I've heard good about it and it was only $11 for the quart so a little more than a quart of Acetone but if it works as good as I've heard it'll be money well spent.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

I promised some pictures of the new electrolytic rust removal tank, here they are!

if you click on the individual pictures different resolutions are available!!!









i'm adding 1 cup of Washing Soda for 10 gallons+/- of water!

i'll post the results!

thanks for your continued interest in the project!!!!


----------



## ChuckB

*Re: 1940 South Bend 11&amp;quot; 111B 105014 IQR Rebuild By Ulma Doctor*



Splat said:


> http://evaporust.com/  I've heard about it but it's too $$ for me. Elbow grease, degreaser, and Acetone have been working fine for me buuuut..... I just picked up a quart of Citristrip and will try that on my headstock. I've heard good about it and it was only $11 for the quart so a little more than a quart of Acetone but if it works as good as I've heard it'll be money well spent.



Thats more expensive than Vaporust  whatever you decide. gives me more time to work on other stuff and does a better job than by hand any day.. 

Check out this thread by autonoz:

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/11382-Picked-this-Logan-up-today

















- - - Updated - - -



Ulma Doctor said:


> thanks Chuck!!
> i've only heard of the stuff...never seen it!
> you got me curious now...
> does it come off easily for painting?
> do you rinse it off with water??



water would work. actually when you get done with it, you could pour it down the drain.. epa okay. 

It last a long time, but eventually will get neturalized thru use. Just got my bucket of it, so I don't know how long. Still looks clear though.

bare metal: hose it off with water.. flush with WD 40 (buy the gallon with the pump bottle), blow it off, oil.

- - - Updated - - -

I just dropped some more big parts in the bucket.. I will post some pics in a couple days..


----------



## ChuckB

Ulma Doctor said:


> I promised some pictures of the new electrolytic rust removal tank, here they are!
> 
> if you click on the individual pictures different resolutions are available!!!
> 
> View attachment 51600
> View attachment 51601
> View attachment 51602
> View attachment 51603
> 
> View attachment 51604
> 
> 
> i'm adding 1 cup of Washing Soda for 10 gallons+/- of water!
> 
> i'll post the results!
> 
> thanks for your continued interest in the project!!!!



I made this one that worked pretty good... real big plastic bucket. The metal strips are 2" X 1/4 steel.

Will be interested in what your rods look like after use. 

You can reverse polority using a doner hunk of material and clean them off.


----------



## macrnr

I use expanded metal for my electolysis with very good results. I can get a tremendous amount of area for the current to travel.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Hello friends,
i've been busy as a beaver at workand haven't had a lot of time for posting.
 i've been enjoying the Carbon Rod Electrolytic process. it' super simple and effective.




thanks for following!
I'll post more when my workload lightens.


----------



## Splat

*Re: 1940 South Bend 11&amp;quot; 111B 105014 IQR Rebuild By Ulma Doctor*



ChuckB said:


> Thats more expensive than Vaporust  whatever you decide. gives me more time to work on other stuff and does a better job than by hand any day..



I didn't know Evaporust came in quarts and was suprised to see it for around $8/quart. So yeah, it is cheaper than Citristrip. BTW, I've finally tried electrolysis and am extremely pleased with my results on my headstock. For now I say to heck with Evaporust, Citristrip, and purple Zep..... give me Splatrolysis!


----------



## LEEQ

Don't know how I missed this thread this long. Musta had my head buried in work and a bport project. Congrats on the neat project. I'm glad my father had some evapo to donate as I hadn't seen rust removed with your method. Copper fouling in pistol barrels, but no idea about it's ability to remove rust. More of your knowledge I will claim for my own muah ha ha ha (evil chuckle). Thanks again for your motor help. It's now vfd'ed up and purring like a kitten.


----------



## ChuckB

*Re: 1940 South Bend 11&amp;quot; 111B 105014 IQR Rebuild By Ulma Doctor*



Splat said:


> I didn't know Evaporust came in quarts and was suprised to see it for around $8/quart. So yeah, it is cheaper than Citristrip. BTW, I've finally tried electrolysis and am extremely pleased with my results on my headstock. For now I say to heck with Evaporust, Citristrip, and purple Zep..... give me Splatrolysis!




I mainly use Evaporust for tooling and areas/parts on the lathe I shouldn't bead blast.. inside the apron, pulleys and shafts etc.. I only bead blast surfaces I am going to paint. The paint sticks to clean, bead blasted surfaces as good as it gets. Painting over electrolysis or even Evaporust.. I don't know. IMO, I think it would take more than acetone to prep the surface.

A neat trick with evaporust is to get some PVC of the right diameter/length with an end cap and slide your shafts, lead screw etc for derusting. Saw this in another thread. I plan to try it.


----------



## Splat

*Re: 1940 South Bend 11&amp;quot; 111B 105014 IQR Rebuild By Ulma Doctor*



ChuckB said:


> I mainly use Evaporust for tooling and areas/parts on the lathe I shouldn't bead blast.. inside the apron, pulleys and shafts etc.. I only bead blast surfaces I am going to paint. The paint sticks to clean, bead blasted surfaces as good as it gets. Painting over electrolysis or even Evaporust.. I don't know. IMO, I think it would take more than acetone to prep the surface.



I thoroughly clean any parts for painting with Acetone and haven't had a problem from this yet. I just looked at the first coat on the headstock I put on yesterday and it appears fine and normal. We'll see how it goes.


----------



## ChuckB

*Re: 1940 South Bend 11&amp;quot; 111B 105014 IQR Rebuild By Ulma Doctor*



Splat said:


> I thoroughly clean any parts for painting with Acetone and haven't had a problem from this yet. I just looked at the first coat on the headstock I put on yesterday and it appears fine and normal. We'll see how it goes.



Well here's a test.. put on some acetome on the piece and scrub with a wire brush.. if black residue apperars, then more cleaning is needed. But then again Im sure your method has been done before with satisfactory results.. I guess it's the level you are aming for.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

here is a picture of the Carbon Anodes after a cycle, there was little erosion of the anode.






as always, thanks for your continued interest, as well as your comments and/or questions!


----------



## Ulma Doctor

i'll still post the pictures here first!


thanks for reading!


----------



## Ulma Doctor

i have run my carbon anode electrolytic process for 10 cycles. my cycles varied between 8 and 12 hours.
here is the anode loss calculated average of 100 hours .


----------



## Ulma Doctor

i got a new toy last week, a Twin carbon Arc Torch





i'm going to attempt to make cast iron repairs on Henrietta.
I have taken a lot of welding schooling, but, this Twin Carbon Arc Welding/Brazing is new to me although it is an old process.
for some old school repairs for an old school lathe, seems fitting.
i'll be posing before, during, and after pictures.
maybe i can teach a process as i'm learning the process:thinking:.....
thanks for reading!


----------



## ScrapMetal

Good luck!  I'll be keeping an eye on your progress as I am super leery of welding cast iron.  I've been sitting on a personal project for many, many years waiting to get the technique learned before trying it.

-Ron


----------



## Ulma Doctor

It's funny Ron,
I've never feared Cast Iron brazing, it's the welding of cast i'm leery of.
there are 2 schools of thought...
One school suggests keeping the iron cool and move around to different sections or stopping frequently to avoid over stressing the metal.
the other school suggests keeping the weldment hot and slowly cool until temperature equalizes .

i have used both schools and prefer the latter when possible. peening the welds is also recommended to stress relieve.

What it boils down at the end of the day....
 here's my thought, if the item is already broken, the worst you can do is break it more.
If you break it again, you learned something(not to do that again)
If you do nothing... sure, you still have a broken part and it didn't get worse.
 But , nothing was learned and the piece is still broken.
Inform, assess, and attack is my formula.
I'm not suggesting getting to far out of your personal comfort range, but the stuff is broke anyway. 
worst that can happen is the nag of the unfulfilled worst scenario!

i hope the information helps someone or at least inspires thoughts as to how to repair cast iron.
i hope to wow us all!
Wish me luck!(i'm gonna need more than a little:lmao


----------



## woodtickgreg

I say weld it until it cracks, then throw it away and buy a new one cuz you needed a new one anyway! LOL


----------



## ScrapMetal

woodtickgreg said:


> I say weld it until it cracks, then throw it away and buy a new one cuz you needed a new one anyway! LOL



Probably the smartest method! :lmao:

My "project" though is the skirt on an ancient (more so than me even)  Franklin stove.  I'd get some pics but it's so far down on my "to do" list that it would probably be a waste of effort.

-Ron


----------



## Tony Wells

There are methods of welding cast iron that are not difficult, and with some nerve, and maybe just a little practice on something inconsequential should be well within the ability of any of you. 

If you have a MIG, there is a wire for it. Not cheap, but very workable. Oxy/Acetylene will do it, but that's pretty challenging. And there is the old fashioned nickel rod for the stick-men among us. 

I'm pretty much a believer in the pre and post heating of the work, and welding in short distances if it is a seam or crack, along with peening immediately after each short "stitch".


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Well, i Went and started the brazing repair by Twin Carbon Arc Torch   :welding:
here are a few pictures of the old gal....
she fell down from the top of the ugly tree and hit every branch to the bottom.






as you can see, she's been hurt before!









	

		
			
		

		
	
 Fire bricks inside the oven for slow cooling.


	

		
			
		

		
	
The fire bricks stay warm for a long time






i'm taking my time to make this repair, it may take 2 or 3 nights to get it to the way i want it.
who knows maybe longer...


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Man can not live on Bread alone....







i justified it as eating brain food for the learning experience....:lmao:


----------



## Tony Wells

The beauty of this area to repair is that it isn't in a stress prone location. If anything, you might want to examine closely the tee-slot after the repair. I'd say that if anything, it might draw up a little and the upper surfaces (the important ones) may need a light skim cut, along with the very top of the compound. But it should come out OK.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Back to the mission...
i put the c/r back into the oven while i scarfed down some of the best eatin' fish i've had in a while!!!
when i came back i went in for a second engagement.






This was really fun to braze, the technique is a little different than oxy/acetelyne brazing.
i kept wanting to treat it like tig welding, eventually i got my game together and feel quite confident using my favorite brazing rod. it did make brazing a lot better and easier than using bare bronze rod. i had to try just to see what it was like to use the old school bare rod and then went to borax as a flux. it was better, but no where like the LBF rod!





i'm gonna call it a night,
thanks boys and girls for reading this chapter!
i'll be back with another chapter soon!!!!!


----------



## Tamper84

Looking good!!!! I just set up an electrolisis tank my self. Got it running for the first time now. An old vise, but depending on the results, my lathe will be seeing this as well. I am using rebar as my anodes though. Keep up the good work, it gives us all some inspiration!!

Chris


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Thanks Chris,!!!!!
the rebar anodes will work out just fine.
i would suggest getting the washing soda from Arm & Hammer.
it's in the laundry detergent isle at the grocery store or Big Box store. pretty cheap about $3.75 a box
if you are lucky enough to have a swimming pool chemical supplier in town, you can ask them for SODA ASH.
Soda Ash and Washing soda are the same substance  (Na2CO3)(Sodium Carbonate)

To Make Soda Ash(Washing Soda):
What we are basically doing is removing hydrogen from Baking soda(NaHCO3)(Sodium Bicarbonate) to make Washing Soda(Na2CO3)
Get a couple boxes of Baking Soda and spread them out on the cookie sheet,You then bake the Baking Soda in the oven for an hour at 350*F. 
this releases moisture inside the baking soda and actually changes the chemical composition of the Baking Soda, turning it into Soda Ash. this is the very same process Arm & Hammer uses to derive their Soda Ash from Baking soda.

i will give a word of caution, Soda Ash is irritating to skin and mucous membranes.
 it is not considered to be a hazardous substance. but, i would suggest proper safety gear for the eyes and hands.
if you are going to make you own, i would suggest a dust mask(the paper type is fine) to avoid inhaling the fine dust when transferring the newly created Soda Ash to a sealed container.
 i'm not sure of the length of time, but i'm thinking the Soda Ash will turn back into baking soda as as it absorbs humidity from the atmosphere. If you live in a High Humidity area, keep the container sealed until use.

i hope the info helps out!


----------



## Tamper84

Yup that's what's I used. Super washing soda. Except I had to go to three stores to find it lol. Even Walmart didn't have it. I eventually found it at rural king.

Chris


----------



## ChuckB

Tamper84 said:


> Yup that's what's I used. Super washing soda. Except I had to go to three stores to find it lol. Even Walmart didn't have it. I eventually found it at rural king.
> 
> Chris



I think the product I use was called PH Plus that I got at a pool supply store.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

i finally got a decent picture of the TCA brazing repair...




this is the first pass across the face.
Being that i'm right handed, i feed the brazing rod in my left hand, similar way as to oxy/acetylene brazing.
I make a very small circle with the torch to heat, but not over heat...
It's a little tricky to keep the heat just right, but as you can see a 43 yr old dog can obviously learn a new trick.

if i can do it you can too!!!!
just don't try to use the DC Cutting/Gouging they are a PITA to use. my results on another warm up piece was disasterous.
i haven't tried uncoated carbon rods. but i'm thinking of trying some experimentation:thinking:

i actually used a couple 3/8 stubs about 5" long of some carbons from, most likely the 70's, they came with the torch.
they worked way smoother, i'm assuming there must be a difference in the carbon grain size or the composition of the carbon and coating or both. i'm not exactly sure.

thanks for reading, i'll post tonight's work soon!!!!


----------



## sniggler

Ulma Doctor said:


> i finally got a decent picture of the TCA brazing repair...
> View attachment 52580
> 
> 
> this is the first pass across the face.
> Being that i'm right handed, i feed the brazing rod in my left hand, similar way as to oxy/acetylene brazing.
> I make a very small circle with the torch to heat, but not over heat...
> It's a little tricky to keep the heat just right, but as you can see a 43 yr old dog can obviously learn a new trick.
> 
> if i can do it you can too!!!!
> just don't try to use the DC Cutting/Gouging they are a PITA to use. my results on another warm up piece was disasterous.
> i haven't tried uncoated carbon rods. but i'm thinking of trying some experimentation:thinking:
> 
> i actually used a couple 3/8 stubs about 5" long of some carbons from, most likely the 70's, they came with the torch.
> they worked way smoother, i'm assuming there must be a difference in the carbon grain size or the composition of the carbon and coating or both. i'm not exactly sure.
> 
> thanks for reading, i'll post tonight's work soon!!!!



I never brazed with a carbon torch but I do a lot of carbon air arc gouge work shaving down large welds and gouging out welds for repairs it is very easy to shape stuff with an air arc gouging rig and it has the benefit of not putting a lot of heat into the work. I wonder if the air arc would work the same on the brazed area to shave it down.

bob


----------



## Ulma Doctor

sniggler said:


> I never brazed with a carbon torch but I do a lot of carbon air arc gouge work shaving down large welds and gouging out welds for repairs it is very easy to shape stuff with an air arc gouging rig and it has the benefit of not putting a lot of heat into the work. I wonder if the air arc would work the same on the brazed area to shave it down.
> 
> bob




i have not considered using the air arc for excess brazing material removal, but i'm sure it would work!!!

for the delicate work i'm going to use a flapper disc on the 4.5" grinder and the Dremmel for finer work.

as always thanks for your continued support and interest.
my intention is to inspire others to take up any kind of torch and get to fixn' your broken cast iron!!!!
don't be afraid, you can do do it!!!!


----------



## sniggler

I do everything i can to avoid grinding when i can. I would probably cut the raised part of the weld off with a cut wheel on a 4-1/2 inch grinder and finish off with the flap wheel.



This is an example of a weld which was originally a verticle full penetration weld joining plates 2" thick. Because the plates were out of plane and the joint would be visible in the final product a transition weld was required the plates were 3/4" out plane and a 1-24 inch transition was required = 18" transition. I welded horizontal layers from the original joint out to the left 18 inches then plane down the weld with carbon air arc it was finished with air grinder and polished with flap wheels. There were 4-50lb spools of welding wire in the transition. Using the carbon arc to plane down and shape the weld saves about a day of grinding. 

this is not the original weld but one similar for reference. 



 bob


----------



## Ulma Doctor

that is some heavy welding there BOB!!!   
:man:

thanks for the pictures and descriptions!!!


----------



## sniggler

Thanks. I like heavy welding and i love my job, the guys i work with are great, but tinkering with my own stuff is at times more fun. I didn't mean to highjack the thread into a welding thing. 

I do think your brazing with the carbon torch is a great way to fix that piece as the heat input to work is so much less. On that job we were taking all our restraints (used to fit up weldments) and run-off tabs off with the air arc gouging rig for that reason, on bigger welds we used cooperheat to keep the temp constant while welding and to control cooling post weld.

Bob


----------



## Old Iron

*Re: 1940 South Bend 11" B 105014 IQR Rebuild By Ulma Doctor*

Just a little suggestion Don't leave your washing soda in the house. I got 3 box's that my Father in law got for me in Winter Haven FL.

I left it in the house to long and SWMBO used 2 box's I got the other in my shop and she was eyein it today. She adds it to the laundry helps get my cloths clean.

All that being said your doing a great job on the lathe nice brazing to. Ya got to be careful with that torch it will give a good sun burn.

Paul


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Thank you all for the comments and passed knowledge, this thread is for guys like us trading secrets and stories.
please don't be afraid to add you comments and methods. 
i welcome them, it assures that my knowledge is not the only information one may draw upon.
 a lot of knowledge is passed between people, i want that to continue. 
the more we share, the more we learn,
 the more we learn, the more we can do... it's a snowball effect.
the largest of tree, starts with the planting of a tiny seed.


as always thank you for you words of encouragement, and passed knowledge.
my intention is to make us all proud:saluteflag:


----------



## woodtickgreg

Ulma Doctor said:


> Thank you all for the comments and passed knowledge, this thread is for guys like us trading secrets and stories.
> please don't be afraid to add you comments and methods.
> i welcome them, it assures that my knowledge is not the only information one may draw upon.
> a lot of knowledge is passed between people, i want that to continue.
> the more we share, the more we learn,
> the more we learn, the more we can do... it's a snowball effect.
> the largest of tree, starts with the planting of a tiny seed.
> 
> 
> as always thank you for you words of encouragement, and passed knowledge.
> my intention is to make us all proud:saluteflag:



Agreed, this is a great forum with great members of all experience levels with no ego's that are helpful and willing to share ther knowledge and help each other. There is no one way to do things, there are often many ways, and each achieves the same end result. And on top of it all we have a bunch of fun too!


----------



## Ulma Doctor

i'm a little slow in the postings this week as far as Henrietta is concerned.
ive been working on my old jet horizontal powered hacksaw and cutting up some heavy stock for a work project.







i made repairs to the compound rest. a picture for posterity ...
i'll be making more repairs to the compound.
i'll do my best to show the process.
thanks for looking!!!


----------



## jpfabricator

Lookin good Doc. keep us posted!


----------



## Ulma Doctor

i have had a lot of stuff hit me lately, all good stuff, but it has kept me very busy.
work has been hectic to say the least.
i was given an opportunity to score a vintage 1955 shopsmith mark5 ("Greenie" as they are known)
my free time has been split between family duties and shopsmith teardown/research/knowledge quest.
i haven't forgotten about Henrietta, to the contrary. 
i'm lucky enough to be included in Richard King's scraping class the end of this month in Oakland, Ca.
with the learned knowledge, i plan to take Henrietta to new heights.

i'll post more photos of the completed repairs to the compound rest in the next few days.
and more pictures of the rest of the rebuild process as i can!

thanks for reading my ramblings, i'll be back on track shortly!!!!
)


----------



## Ulma Doctor

I made some brazing repairs to Henrietta's badly crashed compound rest in the last episode...
i used the Twin Carbon Arc to achieve the build up, i was not able to continue the practice on this repair, my carbons became too short an i was not able to continue until i receive some more A/C copper coated electrodes.
in the interest of moving things along and as to not get too stagnated on an irrelevant issue such as to how the brazing was accomplished, i decided to break out the old oxy/acetylene rig and braze the rest of the build up.











i placed the compound rest back into the 350* for an hour then turned off the stove and let the casting cool on fire bricks.
i'll take more pictures as i start knocking the brazing back down.

as always,
 thanks for taking the time to read these posts.
 i'll do my best to describe the up coming operations.


----------



## itsme_Bernie

I am watching and learning- brazing and welding are the weakest discipline of my metalworking skills- 

Have you heard of people "spray welding" on rotating parts on the lathe, and cutting them again?  An actual "put back on" tool! Hah


Bernie


----------



## Tony Wells

Sure, Bernie. That's called (one brand name anyway) Metallizing. Metco makes the equipment. It can use a variety of metals in wire or powder form. I used to run one pretty regularly. That one used wire, and operated much like a cutting torch with a wire feed, and about 100 PSIG air pressure to spray the metal. You can shoot someone across the shop and send them for cover. The normal material we used for building up shafts and such was about like cast iron to machine. Very small chips almost like powder. We could spray aluminum, and some pretty hard stuff also that you had to grind. I can't recall what it was. 

More recently, there have been developed more similar techniques using plasma instead of oxy/fuel. Even tungsten carbide matrices can be sprayed for extreme wear surfaces.


----------



## itsme_Bernie

So there really IS a "put back on" tool!  Hah hah..  I could see that saving a lot of money on complicated with one bad, worn, or damaged surface.


Bernie


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Here's a little tidbit i just recently found out.
in a conversation about my lathe the subject came up the the lathe came from Mare Island. my Brother in law said that his
 father ,grandfather,and great grandfather all worked at the Mare Island Naval Shipyards.
 The weirdest part is that they were all involved with submarine construction. 
His Grandfather and great grandfather were machinists, his father was and electrical engineer.
sad to say,they are all no longer with us.     Cheers!
the info does give me another avenue to research, who knows what may lie beneath the unturned stone.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

I made some brazing repairs to the compound rest and started to remove excess material....









I'll post more pictures of the repair as it progresses,
thanks for following!


----------



## Tamper84

Looking good Mike!!  Just courious, how long do those oxy/act tanks last you? 

Thanks,
Chris


----------



## Ulma Doctor

when brazing and welding the O2/actyl tanks will last forever, cutting uses up a lot of oxygen.

to be honest i just filled the O2 tank last week, the last time it was filled 1991.
the acetylene tank is a little older but still shows 100 psi.
the guy at my local welding house only charged 20 bucks to re-certify the old O2 tank .
i don't think i'm going to get as lucky on the acetylene tank when it's depleted.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

i did some more brazing and here's a look...







she's cooling down slowly.
i'll be looking to knock the brazing back down and see where i need to go next.


----------



## sniggler

Looks very nice!


----------



## Ulma Doctor

I haven't had a lot of extra time lately, but i did manage to get in some brazing time.:welding:

For your viewing pleasure, one neglectfully damaged lower compound rest weldment.
please be warned the images are graphic and nauseating....:lmao:







as before i preheated the weldment to 300*f and used a lower flame to keep a little better control of the rod.
being memorial day, my welder's supply is closed.  i may have used a slightly smaller rod to control the puddle a little more precisely . i got er' done a little sloppier than i would have liked, but 70% of the material will be removed anyway.
 she's never going to make parts for the space program ,heart valves, or Fire Engine Pumps.

I'll be ok, but the perfectionist inside screams , take er' back down and do it again with smaller rod.
i amuse myself sometimes with random OCD issues.

i'm not sure why, but some things seem like they could be done a little better, no matter how good the job.
i guess that's why doctors and lawyers "Practice" their professions.
I am an imaginary doctor....:thinking:
I suppose i can adopt the same philosophy , to "Practice" repairs of all kinds:lmao:

thanks for reading the lunatic rants of a Proud American!!!

For those whom served our country and gave all, our unending gratitude.
THANK YOU
:saluteflag:


----------



## Ulma Doctor

TAAAADDDDAAAAAA!
i think she's going the direction i would like her to go!














whaddya ya think?


----------



## woodtickgreg

I agree, I think she's getting there, looking good. It's amazing how much material was missing.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Thanks Greg,
i was cringing at the thought of the sounds generated by the crashing of the compound.
i can only assume the machine was unattended. 
i further assume the lathe was working on something large when the horrific incident occurred. 
i'm of the further assumption that the machine was probably sent to storage, and has not operated since.  
i'm slowly chipping away at the problems and follies!!
it's really fun to mess with metal!!


----------



## Ulma Doctor

It's Saturday night, just after 8:00 pm. I just returned home from Richard King's Hand Scraping Class.

I have to say to anybody reading, TAKE HIS CLASS.

 Not only is he a great teacher, he's a great man as well.

I used to think of myself as machine knowledgeable.Apparently, i'm not even close to being knowledgeable.
 I have been humbled once again, in a good way.Richard King has forgotten more about machinery than i'll probably ever learn.
 i can say with pleasure that i'm proud to have met the man, and lucky to have his knowledge imparted.

i have used my share of machinery, and fixed my share and someone else's share of machinery, but i never new how they make precision mating surfaces,precision. i have been shown the way to precision and how that is accomplished, and have used the same tools and methods that professional machine builder's use on high precision equipment.
i'll be able to save thousands of dollars being able to do it myself, armed with new perspective and more importantly new knowledge.  

Richard King's class and teachings will be invaluable in the restoration of Henrietta. 

in future posts, you'll get a look at the results of what i have learned.
Going back to Day 3 of the scraping class tomorrow, i'm anxious to see what other information i can soak up.

as always thanks for reading.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

i have the first picture of Henrietta's first scraped part.
the part is scraped to .0005" accuracy.
i'm quite proud to say that i scraped a part that was contacting in a very few points and not perpendicular to the saddle casting as a result. the amount of material i removed was about .0025" to achieve the scraped dimension and back to perpendicular.

a couple of pictures...







i had a great experience in Richard Kings scraping class. i'm looking forward to the next time class meets up!


----------



## Tamper84

Wow its coming along nicely Mike!!!!!!!!!!!

Chris


----------



## drs23

Doctor,

Is the SB on hold, finished or...? Great job so far and have enjoyed every word and picture.

Any updates?

Don't leave us hangin' man.

Again, great job and looking forward to updates.

Thanks for posting,

Dale


----------



## woodtickgreg

drs23 said:


> Doctor,
> 
> Is the SB on hold, finished or...? Great job so far and have enjoyed every word and picture.
> 
> Any updates?
> 
> Don't leave us hangin' man.
> 
> Again, great job and looking forward to updates.
> 
> Thanks for posting,
> 
> Dale


Yeah, what he said! LOL.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

woodtickgreg said:


> Yeah, what he said! LOL.




I'm sorry guys, i didn't mean to leave you all hanging.
the project is moving very slowly forward.
i promised that i would keep the thread open until i was finished, i'll keep the promise.

i made the purchase of some newer equipment to help me in my regular work.
fortunately the newer pieces of equipment will fund the ongoing restoration.
i didn't want to bore you all with simple retapping of bolt holes and cleaning,
 so i haven't had much juicy stuff.

in a few months there is plans to have a write up worth viewing.

i apologize for my lack of attention to you guy's, and to Henrietta.
life got in the way, but i'm never really far away.
thank guys that's why i do it , it's for the interested!


----------



## woodtickgreg

Mike I totally understand. I moved over the summer, that means my shop was moved as well, all my machines where taken apart to get out of my basement and moved into my new basement/house/shop. Nothing is set up yet as work has just been busy. The good thing is now my wood shop will be separated from my machine shop. When work slows down I will work on getting set up. So again I do understand how life gets in the way sometimes.


----------



## Gary Ayres

Phenomenal thread! Full of detailed and useful info, but also of good-natured conversation and laughs!

Love the look of that compound in your last pictures of it...


----------



## Ulma Doctor

thank you Gary, you are very kind.
i try to mix humor with projects whenever possible.
if i can throw a little education in as well, then i feel as that iv'e contributed.
that's my purpose and drive.

thanks to all who have read and commented.
the thread is still alive albeit slow in commencement.


----------



## razinman

Hi Mike, 

                    The lathe looks GREAT! I know you'll do an excellent job on the restoration. The articles on the history
of the co. was unbelievable, I had to stop reading it to send you a message. Once again the best of luck with the restoration
process, I haven't been reading the post lately, we've been picking up leaves(that time of the year!)

      Best Regards......................Kerry)

 P.S. turntable still working GREAT


----------



## razinman

Hi Mike, 

         Me again, I just saw the progress in the shaping the parts and  scraping You really are Exceptional in your
  work!!


    Regards..................Kerry


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Thank You Kerry,
you are very kind .
I try my best to do good work, even where it doesn't show.
the process for bringing Henrietta back from the dead has been slow, but a lot of progress has been made.
there will inevitably be more to come.
thanks for reading, i'll have more to show in a few weeks.


----------



## CoopVA

Just stumbled on to this... That's some great work Doctor!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Thank You very much COOP!!
I'm glad you like the project.
comments like yours are a pleasure to read, thank you.
the project is gonna take some time, but with baby steps it will run in a few weeks.


----------



## CoopVA

Slow and steady always works!  I look forward to seeing your progress!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Update 2/28/15
Sorry for the delay got sidetracked for a while.

I have just started scraping the Cross Slide Top,
heres a picture of the first blue up!
as you can see there is not much contact.
I'll make it right again.
It feels good to spend a few cycles on the lathe that hasn't got much attention lately.
thanks as always for reading


----------



## LEEQ

Best part of the rebuild for me, you bring a machine back to tight, smooth,and accurate by your hand, following your plan. Does it get more rewarding?  I can't wait to find my oldschool honey to restore.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Thank you Lee,
I agree 100%- 
nothing feels better to me than to take "Junk" and turn it into metaphorical gold.


----------



## razinman

Hey Mike.

                I glad to see you're on your way with the restoration of the Old Lady, it's nice to know the history and even though you
don't realize it, your efforts of restoration of this particular SB will be a contribution to the history of the war archives so that we
should NEVER FORGET " that there where "THOSE WHO GAVE SOME AND THEN THERE WERE THOSE WHO GAVE ALL" .
             I know your restoration will top notch, as expected you started with the motor first. Maybe you can sell the wasps
hive on E-Bay and tell them it is an ancient hive from WWII
             The best of luck, take care..................Kerry


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Thanks Kerry, always good to hear from you!
The bee-hive has long since been gone , but i like your thinking!!!!
i have so many irons in the fire that it's hard to spend much meaningful time on any one project.
So i hunt and peck and try to schedule some time on my First Love, Henrietta.
She never really leaves my thoughts. I was able to put my hands on her again this morning doing some more scraping....


----------



## Andre

Can't wait to see how this turns out, not many 11" SB's out there.

Maybe this will inspire me to scrape mine. At least the cross slide anyway, scraping a 6" bed wouldn't be fun!


----------



## Ulma Doctor




----------



## Ulma Doctor




----------



## Ulma Doctor

Andre said:


> Can't wait to see how this turns out, not many 11" SB's out there.
> 
> Maybe this will inspire me to scrape mine. At least the cross slide anyway, scraping a 6" bed wouldn't be fun!




Thanks  for reading Andre,
i wouldn't want to hand scrape a 6" bed either, but Biax Scraping is a whole lot easier.
the cross slide and compound will be time consuming but necessary for poor ol' Henrietta.
she got whooped but good, Have no fear i'll throw everything i got at her,
she deserves that much at least!
thanks for commenting.
I hope it does coax you into scraping your lathe too!!!


----------



## Andre

Ulma Doctor said:


> Thanks  for reading Andre,
> i wouldn't want to hand scrape a 6" bed either, but Biax Scraping is a whole lot easier.
> the cross slide and compound will be time consuming but necessary for poor ol' Henrietta.
> she got whooped but good, Have no fear i'll throw everything i got at her,
> she deserves that much at least!
> thanks for commenting.
> I hope it does coax you into scraping your lathe too!!!


Oh, Mike, it's too late!!! I already started scraping the compound on my Craftsman 109. Then realised the dovetails are way too small for scraping. Onto bigger and better things!


----------



## Ski

Enjoying your work a bunch. Keep us posted!


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Thank you very much Ski !
i'm just glad i have something interesting to offer.
i'll keep putting up pictures until she's done!


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Andre said:


> Oh, Mike, it's too late!!! I already started scraping the compound on my Craftsman 109. Then realised the dovetails are way too small for scraping. Onto bigger and better things!



I'm glad you jumped into action!!!!
at least you got some scrapes in anyway!!!


----------



## Andre

Yeah, it was interesting getting right into the dovetail. The compound barely hit on 4 points before, now it hits 75% coverage with a light bluing. Pull and push scraping are worlds apart!


Ulma Doctor said:


> I'm glad you jumped into action!!!!
> at least you got some scrapes in anyway!!!


----------



## Ulma Doctor

I made another corny montage video, if you don't feel like reading the whole post- this is a highlight reel part 1.
sorry to say that means that there will be more than one....

If you view in fullscreen you can see it a little better!


----------



## Ulma Doctor

And the inevitable Part 2....




Thanks for watching!


----------



## hermetic

So far, So good! the spindle bearings are about as near perfect as you would dare hope for a machine of this age. The crashing damage to the compound is nasty, but  as you say, not beyond the pale, Watching with interest!!
Phil


----------



## hermetic

Superb repair on the compund! Damn boy, whats wrong with you! Like it
Phil


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Thank you Phil,
i felt the song is fitting to my personality.
i've heard the song title phrase more than a few times in my life....


----------



## razinman

Hi Mike,
                    Your video is better then  the News on CNN( at least no one is getting killed). Like the song too!!
        I noticed you repaired the tool post base -was that welded and then ground down.? And the battery charger
        is used to remove the grease and grime off the parts.
                  This is all new to me,  any battery charger will do that, what was the solution that the bucket contains?
    I think I'm going to read the previous posts you had to find out more info about this and stop asking dumb questions!
  Anyway like the video, looks like you'll be done shortly(LOL).

              Best regards...................Kerry


----------



## razinman

Ulma Doctor said:


> When Henrietta left her last home, she was lifted from a pedestal of furniture dollies by chain to my awaiting trailer by forklift.
> that was to be the easiest part of the journey to her current resting spot. Before receiving Henrietta,
> i had a little better than 2 days to hear quite a few of my friends and family about how this mission should be aborted, and what was i thinking:nuts: . I traded a perfectly working lathe for another non working lathe, that hasn't worked in decades possibly.
> This is when i new it was for the love of the machine and complete confidence in myself to achieve any end.
> Hi Mike,
> 
> I said I was going to read your old posts. Remember what  Edison said" Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration "
> I think your there,  I once looked a The Monarche 10EE  lathe and they told me the weight estimate was 3400 lbs !!!( My posrche weighted less
> than that with me in it) Your on the right track !
> Good luck................Kerry


----------



## Ulma Doctor

razinman said:


> Hi Mike,
> Your video is better then  the News on CNN( at least no one is getting killed). Like the song too!!
> I noticed you repaired the tool post base -was that welded and then ground down.? And the battery charger
> is used to remove the grease and grime off the parts.
> This is all new to me,  any battery charger will do that, what was the solution that the bucket contains?
> I think I'm going to read the previous posts you had to find out more info about this and stop asking dumb questions!
> Anyway like the video, looks like you'll be done shortly(LOL).
> 
> Best regards...................Kerry




Hi Kerry,
thanks for viewing, i'm glad you like the thread and videos.
the compound was brazed up and sanded down to it's final shape.
the battery charger and soda ash is used in the electrolytic removal of rust.
i used 2 separate methods, one using iron anode and one using carbon anodes. the carbon anodes work really well!
i'll be working on Henrietta for a few months at least.
lots of stuff to do yet!


----------



## brav65

Hey Doc!

I just found your thread.  What a great project, and wonderful work on your part.  I can't wait to see what comes next.  Thank you for sharing all your knowledge, it is absolutely fascinating for a new guy like me.

Brooks


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Thanks Brooks, that is really nice to hear that you are getting something from my thread.
it's going slow but even the Pyramids of Egypt were not built (or rebuilt) in a day!
i'm trying to do high quality work, it's the least i can do for the ol' girl


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Well back in the pit....
i did some more scraping!!!!
heres a few teasers.










still plenty more #handscraping going on here!!!!


----------



## brav65

The Master is at it again!  Looking good Mike!


----------



## Ulma Doctor

and some more #MetalScraping !!!!


	

		
			
		

		
	
 not too bad!



the top side,(above), is going to be a PITA, i can already tell...



the contact is coming around on the bottom side!


----------



## Ulma Doctor

I found an interesting find on Fleabay

I've been looking for parts for Henrietta for a long time.
This time i wasn't looking for anything in particular- mostly browsing to see what's available, pretty much SOP for me anyway.
I came across an original ad for South Bend Lathes from Popular Mechanics June 1940, coincidentally the same year of manufacture as Henrietta.
I had to get it!!!
i didn't spend much on the pages cut from the magazine, but i thought it was very interesting nonetheless.
the ad is pristine less the poor reclamation from the Popular Mechanics magazine, the edges are good for 3 sides- the fourth not so good.
i'll let you be the judge,
i'm happy to have the ad, it's the first time i have see reference, in print, to the 11" lathe.
in the second scan, a 11"x 4' lathe is featured on the lower left photo.
without further adieu..





thanks to all who have read the lengthy post, i'm afraid that it's only going to get longer!!!
i'll be posting a lot of pictures of the scraping of the lathes surfaces.
stay tuned!


----------



## ScrapMetal

If that was the first I'll provide a second.   Here are some scanned pages from a 1939 SB catalog...



















-Ron


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Wow Ron, Thank You!!!!!!!


----------



## ScrapMetal

Bitte.  

-Ron


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Well it's been too long since i laid hands on Henrietta's broken parts...
i started up the Biax again today in the company of a good friend, Bob Korves, in his shop today!!!
we had a lot of fun scraping away at metal.
i spent most of my time scraping on the compound rest where i had left off a long time ago.
it's like riding a bike really, i got right back into the zen-zone very easily!
i didn't take a lot of pictures, but here's where i ended up
it took roughly 30 cycles to gain any blue on the secondary lip.
she's coming around!!!



as always thanks to all who have read!
the thread is still alive!!!!!


----------



## mariner3302

This will be a great help to me! I have a '37 Quick Change 11"x54" and need lots of help and encouragement. I want to take off the bearing covers and take a look but I don't have any idea what felts and such to get for the whole lathe. I thought about getting a kit for the Heavy 10 but read somewhere they wouldn't all fit, maybe only half. I could use a push in that direction...


----------



## dlane

Hi mike , I noticed the half nut handle on Henrietta looked broken , if you need the handle / cam , pin
Let me know I may have one that fits , it's taking up space
Edit: just read where you found the handle


----------



## mariner3302

Mike, I just got my motor mounted. It's above the lathe. How can I determine the speed settings? I find them for everything but the 11" models. I will measure the diameter of each pulley. I'm ordering a cheap rpm meter also. Just wondering if there is any info about it.
The motor is 1 phase, 1750 rpm.
Dan


----------



## Ulma Doctor

mariner3302 said:


> This will be a great help to me! I have a '37 Quick Change 11"x54" and need lots of help and encouragement. I want to take off the bearing covers and take a look but I don't have any idea what felts and such to get for the whole lathe. I thought about getting a kit for the Heavy 10 but read somewhere they wouldn't all fit, maybe only half. I could use a push in that direction...


Hi mariner,
than you for reading.
i'm faced with the same problem, i'm not sure what felt kit to get myself.
i had made the same consideration to buy the heavy 10 felt kit, i know that the saddle felt retainers are different between the 10" and 11" lathes.
i'm also considering buying felt stock from McMaster-Carr as well as the 13" sb kit.
it may not be right either, but i'd rather have felt too long, than too short.
i'm sure there may be issues that way too



dlane said:


> Hi mike , I noticed the half nut handle on Henrietta looked broken , if you need the handle / cam , pin
> Let me know I may have one that fits , it's taking up space
> Edit: just read where you found the handle


Thanks Derrick for the offer!
i bought a new old stock handle a while back, it's still sitting, waiting to be used....
i gotta finish some scraping before assembly.



mariner3302 said:


> Mike, I just got my motor mounted. It's above the lathe. How can I determine the speed settings? I find them for everything but the 11" models. I will measure the diameter of each pulley. I'm ordering a cheap rpm meter also. Just wondering if there is any info about it.
> The motor is 1 phase, 1750 rpm.
> Dan



Looks Great Dan!

the factory spindle speeds are 40, 69, 118, 238, 377, 608
the nominal RPM is 1725 on the OEM motor.


----------



## mariner3302

Hey thanks!!! That'll be a great help! I'm going to make some chips after it cools off a bit.


----------



## mariner3302

I measured my spindle speeds and came up with 740, 485, 317 and 125, 81, 53. That was measured at the 3 jaw chuck....


----------



## Ulma Doctor

thanks for the info, i'll need to compare results !


----------



## Apogee

Mike,

Just wondering if this restoration ever got completed?  I was really enjoying this thread and NEED TO SEE PICS OF IT FINISHED!!!!!!  It's a great motivator showing what can be accomplished when one sets their mind to it and I can't wait to see Henrietta running again.

AWESOME work so far!

If you don't mind me asking, I'm curious where you found those graphite carbon rods you're using as electrodes in your electrolysis setup?  Do you remember what size they were or exactly what you ordered?  If you wouldn't mind sharing I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!

Steve


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Hi Steve
Thank you for your interest and your kind words. I really do appreciate it!!

No sir , the project has slowly continued. 
I have some pictures of some of the completed work to date. I just have not posted the slow progress
I'll be sure to share the information.

As far as the carbon anodes, i found them on ebay
They are 5/8" diameter X 18" long
100% graphite
They were about $20 each if i remember correctly
If i can find a link i'll send a message

Pictures to be posted soon!


----------



## Apogee

Hi Mike,

I appreciate the info!

Based on the results of your electrolysis and your comments about it, I'm *assuming* that you still prefer using the graphite.  If you had to choose again, would you continue to use the anodes or would you switch to rebar, flat steel plate, etc?  Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Please keep the pics coming!

Thanks,

Steve


----------



## Apogee

Found the graphite anode rod at McMaster Carr.  Also found this writeup which I thought was pretty good:

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/electrolyticderusting.htm

Enjoy,

Steve


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Apogee said:


> Hi Mike,
> I appreciate the info!
> Based on the results of your electrolysis and your comments about it, I'm *assuming* that you still prefer using the graphite.  If you had to choose again, would you continue to use the anodes or would you switch to rebar, flat steel plate, etc?  Your thoughts would be appreciated.
> Please keep the pics coming!
> Thanks,
> Steve



I would use the carbon anodes, they really gave the best results.
as far as the cathode(s) you could use a sheet, heavy wire grid, chicken wire or  whatever you have that is conductive, and lay the rusted materials to be cleaned on the cathode matrix
the electricity and washing soda does the rest!
thanks Steve!


----------



## mariner3302

Is graphite rod like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/CARBON-GRAP...hash=item2eb75f5925:m:mfFToxsvVNGkvEFYLswIO8Q   the same as you use for the graphite anode?


----------



## Ulma Doctor

yes, it is and even cheaper and longer  than what i got them for mariner!
nice find!


----------



## Ulma Doctor

i have been away from writing my progress on the thread but here is an update as of March 5, 2017...


most of my time has been spent on my regular job.
i have been blessed with only fleeting moments of quality fun shop time.
i'm doing metal scraping to repair the crashed compound previously brazed to gain lost cast iron from very long ago.
the cast iron repairs went relatively quickly.
the scraping and re-fitting of the damaged components is not going as quickly, due to my over-attention in scraping the poor mass.
in order for me to scrape the dovetails, i needed to prepare a reference, that process can be seen @
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/scraping-in-a-precision-straight-edge.34485/






i am still in the process of scraping the dovetails, but i do have a few pictures of the work up to date....










more to come in the following weeks!
thanks for reading and commenting!


----------



## woodtickgreg

Very nice Mike! I would have given up and just looked for a new compound, lol. But the work you have done is amazing.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

woodtickgreg said:


> Very nice Mike! I would have given up and just looked for a new compound, lol. But the work you have done is amazing.


Thank you very much Greg !!!
when i started the rebuild, i knew i was in for a lot of work ( waaay, more than i knew i was in for )
i made the decision, right then, to do the very best job i could produce, whatever may come.
i had no idea of the time frame, and have not placed a time limit on the completion.
i just want it to be as right as i can possibly make it. that may be single biggest part of the delay .
i just try to set a small goal and get that done before i move on to the next task.
making the scraping reference was time consuming, but it was something that was crucial to the next steps i'm making

should have i bought another compound??? ABSOLUTELY  YES!!!!!

to be honest, i chose to scrape and repair the wretch, for the challenge of doing the craziest thing i could think of.

should it be done??? Absolutely not.

thanks Greg for your inspiration and kind words, i hope all is well!


----------



## core-oil

Hey Ulma,

I have enjoyed reading your articles on Henrietta, (good homely name for the old girl)  Your workmanship is excellent, as is your work/conservation/historical and general love for this old machine If anyone was to ask me "did the man carry out an uneconomical repair?, Iwould have to concurr you bet", But you have the same ethos as me cost & time considerations are way down the scale, It all bo8ills down to the love of venerable old iron which made our nations great, your lathe is in the same genre as my big slotting machine, Old fashioned Yes, built at the beginning of the second world war , and was responsible for pulling us all out of a real mess! Both unsung heroes
Last autumn, I ventured down to the North of England to purchase a little Zyto lathe , It is a London build , first saw the light of day in its embryo form many years ago I think just after the first world war,  My example which I obtained was one of the firms last designs late 1940-to mid fifties, I purchased it from a thoroughly nice & decent English gentleman , who could not have been more helpfull if he had tried, Like Henrietta it was in a poor state, very dirty, but after months of cleaning up came a little lathe with virtually zero wear, and minimum  damage, only the bronze bearing shells wich I had to remake.
Unlike Henrietta which is a production lathe , my lathe is a small 3&1/4" centre height x 12" between centres screwcutting lathe, built for the home craftsman, She is a cone drive lathe from an overhead countershaft (Missing ) So I have now began making a suitable countershaft with fast & loose pulleys and matching cone , Like your lathe flat belt drive, I have been taken to task , by "experts" , for wasting precious time repairing a machine of an outdated pattern, when sitting across from it I have a really nice Myford , A make of lathe which superseded it as regards the general British home shop guy from the late fifties onwards, But it is little pattern of machine upon which was made superb model engines and other lovely things in its day. A nice homely thing from my early teenage years , Guess Ulma it all boils down to love of old iron.

    Ulma,   I most certainly am looking forward to your final report on your lathe ticking over. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

Thank you core-oil,
i have enjoyed sharing my experiences with like minded folk.
i enjoy hearing stories of others saving old iron from the hands of the scrapper and giving them new life, 
if there were such a tome,
i just would like to be mentioned in that book 

i look forward to making the last entry in this thread!
all the best!


----------



## just old al

core-oil said:


> Hey Ulma,
> 
> Like your lathe flat belt drive, I have been taken to task , by "experts" , for wasting precious time repairing a machine of an outdated pattern, when sitting across from it I have a really nice Myford , A make of lathe which superseded it as regards the general British home shop guy from the late fifties onwards, But it is little pattern of machine upon which was made superb model engines and other lovely things in its day.



Ah, yes...rivet counters and Inspector Meticulous as LBSC used to say.

I started in the hobby with an ancient 3" Atlas/Craftsman - a machine with few virtues and less rigidity. made parts on it for a long time, then upgraded to a Myford ML10. THis got joined by a South Bend 9, which has just been replaced with another (tired headstock).

Have I done uneconomical repairs? All the time. I restore old British iron as a primary hobby (Land-Rovers). Done more parts recon there than was ever worth the effort - except for the fact that I COULD do it and enjoyed every minute. If you enjoy it and it works, more power to you, and to all of us.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

just old al said:


> Ah, yes...rivet counters and Inspector Meticulous as LBSC used to say.
> I started in the hobby with an ancient 3" Atlas/Craftsman - a machine with few virtues and less rigidity. made parts on it for a long time, then upgraded to a Myford ML10. THis got joined by a South Bend 9, which has just been replaced with another (tired headstock).
> Have I done uneconomical repairs? All the time. I restore old British iron as a primary hobby (Land-Rovers). Done more parts recon there than was ever worth the effort - except for the fact that I COULD do it and enjoyed every minute. If you enjoy it and it works, more power to you, and to all of us.


Hi Al,
thank you for reading!
it's very nice to hear that i'm not the only one that loves old iron!


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## Silverbullet

Ulma Doctor said:


> i also wanted to echo many previous postings by others with a recipe for Col. Ed's Red Antirust
> 1 part Automatic Transmission Fluid
> 1 part Kerosene
> 1 part Mineral Spirits
> 1 part Acetone
> 
> Mix and apply to parts to be protected, be cautious the mix is most likely flammable and it has a paint removal quality!


Eds red also has lanolin in it I think . At least the recipe I have on file. Good gun cleaner I used it extensively during years of gun cleaning at trap shoots. Or maybe you add that to make it gun cleaner. What ever it's good stuff.


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## Silverbullet

Ulma Doctor said:


> i was doing a parts search and i found an interesting seller who has the drive belting on EBAY
> 
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11401.m1842.l3160/7?euid=ec9d564a001d456a9dccc62b8b4bd93a&loc=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330737677697&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:3160&exe=10013&ext=100025&sojTags=exe=exe,ext=ext
> 
> i measured with a piece of string, around the flat countershaft middle pulley, to the spindle flat middle pulley and the tension handle about 7/8 of the way towards tight.
> i got a measurement of 63" for the underdrive system.
> i have all the adjusters more or less set to their midpoints so i have plenty of adjustment longer or shorter in case the belt stretches or lands shorter than anticipated., i know they used to come with leather belts that stretched quite a bit. the new belt is multilayer and synthetic hopefully a winning combo,
> any belt input would be appreciated from the readers, i'm trying this belt on the merit of it's cost only.
> i considered a newer rubber belt but i'm trying to keep the spirit of the old way with the metal laced belt, i think it looks cooler.
> suggestions anyone?
> thanks for reading!!


It depends on what you want. Leather can be found , there's a guy online that has leather like 66 cents a square inch. I asked for a price on ten ft of 1 1/4"x 10'  About $90.00 , I need two for the planer. I just found a roll of 1" for 25' cost me a $99.00 on eBay. There's a roll of two inch on there for about the same . If you want ill get the number. Ulma if you want I can lace it or even loan my vise model just pay the shipping. If I have any left over on my planer rebuild I plan on offering to make some logan belts to sell. Real leather belting , the one roll says waterproof looks to be layered . And over 1/4" thick. Nice looking roll I'd invest to sell but my investments now are too many.


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## Silverbullet

Ulma Doctor said:


> Man can not live on Bread alone....
> 
> One of my favs.  Yumm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i justified it as eating brain food for the learning experience....:lmao:
> 
> View attachment 52515


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## mariner3302

Hey, Ulma, have you sourced wicks and felts for Henrietta? Ive got mine apart and am cleaning it up. I have the headstock, tailstock, apron, saddle, quickchange gear box, lead screw, and tray and legs off. Worked on the saddle today. Tubalcain and some of the other youtube guys are invaluable.


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