# AXA Tangential tool holder - first impressions



## PurpLev (Oct 1, 2012)

After making the initial tool holder (blog post here) and finding out the tool height is way too high I ended up trimming the front of the tool holder and lowering the entry point from which the HSS tool extends out. After verifying the tool height could be set to center line of spindle:


I sharpened the tool and went ahead to make some test cuts to see what the fuss is all about:



The finish on the 1/2" aluminum rod is quite nice. I ran a similar test on CRS and the results were similar. however with the toolpoint so close to the tool holder there are limitations in terms of getting too close to the chuck, and in terms of facing a part without repositioning the tool holder (I was hoping I could turn and face with 1 setting, but the clamp holding the toolbit will make contact with the turned face - so no go. 

I think if the toolbit was extending some more away from the toolholder this would be better, meaning the slot for the toolholder would have to be significantly lower than what I did, and/or the angles of the tool holder would have to be steeper (15 instead of 12 probably).

So far am not seeing any benefit of this over regular tool holders which I can easily sharpen anyway I want them to be and can extend them to reach tight corners.

your miles may vary, and I'd be curious to hear other's inputs on this - ease of accessing tight corners, facing/turning using same setting and what not that should be the benefit of this tool, but doesn't seem feasible with my setup.

Sharon


----------



## 8ntsane (Oct 1, 2012)

If you look here http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...-Shop-Made-Tooling!?highlight=tangential+tool

Its a design of the tool holder. Scroll to post #4 The first pic shows the front of the tool, and the second shows the changes to the front end. Mine isnt done the same as most, as the tool is centred with only the rake.

I chose to not use the QCTP to mount the tool holder, and went direct instead. The top front of the tool holder is sloped down on mine a fair bit.
I looked at many designs over the net before doing mine. My tool holder was originally designed by a member here, FarFar, and I just made mine with slight changes to use 1/2 HSS cutters.

The QCTP would have raised up mine as well, reason for direct mount. The turn and face with out changing position is why I like the tool centred instead off to the side. I rigged up a few to test before I built mine, and Im very happy with FarFar,s
design. I set it up, its good for turning or facing, and gets into tight corners just fine.

Look at the front of my tool holder, and its easy to see how I can get into tight spots, and take deep cuts. Allso if I need to get into a tight shoulder on the RH side of the work, I can swing the tool, or the compound to get there, and swing back to original setting.


----------



## PurpLev (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks Paul. I like your/farfar design and may opt to make one at some point as it does seem to have a better reach, although I like the idea of using the QCTP and avoid having to swap the toolposts for tool changes.... definitely food for thought.


----------



## jgedde (Oct 1, 2012)

There is also my version: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...al-Toolholder-for-a-QCTP?highlight=tangential

I made a prototype from aluminum and liked it so much I made another from steel (and turned it black with cold gun blue paste).  I face and turn with one setting...  The trick to making this work is the button head screw located on the side bevel used in lieu of a clamp.  It ends up clearing the side of the tool by 50 thou or so.  Believe it or not, itdoes hold the bit securely... The bit groove is slightly too shallow on purpose so the screw clamps hard on the bit.  I figured I'd try the idea first while leaving the design open for a cam lock type arrangement...  I did have my doubts...

Here's an end on view of the 3D model showing how:






John


----------



## Kennyd (Oct 1, 2012)

Here is my stupid question:  If these are so great, and just about everybody who makes one says they are...Why aren't they readily available at any suppliers?

I don't want to make one, I don't generally take the time to "make" tools-if there was one available in AXA for $75 I would just buy it.


----------



## 8ntsane (Oct 1, 2012)

Kenny

If you do a google ,or you tube search you will find that you can just buy one, but if I remember right, more that 75 bucks.

So many designs of this type of tool holder, it is hard to choose what is right for you. I looked at many on the net, and I didnt find anything for 1/2 tool cutters, so just took what I thought was the best design, and built it .

I like mine, and dont use it on all jobs, but has been a great tool just the same. Hard to beat a tool that has 1- angle to grind. And for those still using the 4-way tool post, its a snap to get your tool on centre line, without shims.

Or, John has had great results with his, and may be willing to build you a copy of his, for a price.:whistle:


----------



## jgedde (Oct 1, 2012)

Kennyd said:


> Here is my stupid question:  If these are so great, and just about everybody who makes one says they are...Why aren't they readily available at any suppliers?
> 
> I don't want to make one, I don't generally take the time to "make" tools-if there was one available in AXA for $75 I would just buy it.



They are made.  I don't know if for AXA, but available.  Search for "Diamond Tool Holder".  I might be cajoled into making one....

John


----------



## PurpLev (Oct 1, 2012)

jgedde said:


> There is also my version: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...al-Toolholder-for-a-QCTP?highlight=tangential
> 
> I made a prototype from aluminum and liked it so much I made another from steel (and turned it black with cold gun blue paste).  I face and turn with one setting...  The trick to making this work is the button head screw located on the side bevel used in lieu of a clamp.  It ends up clearing the side of the tool by 50 thou or so.  Believe it or not, itdoes hold the bit securely... The bit groove is slightly too shallow on purpose so the screw clamps hard on the bit.  I figured I'd try the idea first while leaving the design open for a cam lock type arrangement...  I did have my doubts...
> 
> John



Thanks John, I think I followed your design, but found it to be too high for my lathe setup (tool holder is 1.5" tall, and the bevel reaches 0.5" from the top - so measurements are identical to yours). I believe that the button bolt would make a big difference in reach, and am thinking about redesigning the clamp for that purpose, but I still think that the design that Paul posted might have yet even a better reach... so far I like the performance of this one in terms of cut quality, but feel it's a bit too close to the holder because my setup is higher than yours probably.



Kennyd said:


> Here is my stupid question:  If these are so great, and just about everybody who makes one says they are...Why aren't they readily available at any suppliers?
> 
> I don't want to make one, I don't generally take the time to "make" tools-if there was one available in AXA for $75 I would just buy it.



Kenny, they are available but those that I've seen are extremely $$$ that I quickly lost interest. but to make one and gain some experience on the way was always a no brainer to me. this was more for the practice than for the need for another tool holder.


----------



## 8ntsane (Oct 1, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUAPrkC7Q-Q


Good video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAPyWKXnVFM


Another vid in action


----------



## Pkranger71 (Nov 4, 2012)

Very nice tool holder!  I have had the Diamond tool holder for almost a year now.  It cuts very nice but to be honest my reason for getting it was the ease of sharpening the bit
with the included jig.  There is also the Wimberley tool holder, a different take on the idea, though I have not tried it yet.

Matt


----------



## Splat (Feb 25, 2013)

As Matt wrote, there is the *Wimberley toolholder*. This clamps the toolbit horizontally, whereas the *Diamond/Eccentric Eng. Toolholder* holds the bit vertically. I like the Diamond more because I feel its hold on the toolbit is more secure...but that's just my opinion based on the pictures. The Wimberley is a lot cheaper at $75 but doesn't do threading. The Diamond is double that but comes with a sharpening jig and will do threading. Definitely not cheap. I would make my own but I don't have the requisite tooling to do so att.


----------



## Splat (Feb 25, 2013)

double post, sorry


----------



## PurpLev (Feb 25, 2013)

Splat said:


> As Matt wrote, there is the *Wimberley toolholder*. This clamps the toolbit horizontally, whereas the *Diamond/Eccentric Eng. Toolholder* holds the bit vertically. I like the Diamond more because I feel its hold on the toolbit is more secure...but that's just my opinion based on the pictures. The Wimberley is a lot cheaper at $75 but doesn't do threading. The Diamond is double that but comes with a sharpening jig and will do threading. Definitely not cheap. I would make my own but I don't have the requisite tooling to do so att.



Thats interetsing. but it doesn't seem like it benefits from the same "built-in" sharpening advantage the diamond toolholder has, nor from the vertical added resistance to bending that the diamond tool geometry offers.


----------



## Splat (Feb 25, 2013)

PurpLev said:


> Thats interetsing. but it doesn't seem like it  benefits from the same "built-in" sharpening advantage the diamond  toolholder has, nor from the vertical added resistance to bending that  the diamond tool geometry offers.



Yep. I'm probably going to order the Diamond. I'm torn between it  and getting indexing toolholders with HSS inserts. I think in the long  run the Diamond will be cheaper since the bits are way cheaper than the  inserts. I envy what you did there, Sharon. That's a nice piece and I agree that if you were to get the toolbit out farther giving you more clearance you'd be better off. Are you going to try another one or modifying this one, maybe make one that'll fit into a QC toolholder?


----------

