# Things I recently learned about small engine repair shops.



## Ken from ontario (Dec 16, 2021)

After nine years of flawless service,  my Ariens snow blower engine started to act up, it all of a sudden started to run on screaming fast RPM, lowering the throttle position to slow did not help much, so I decided to find a decent mechanic locally to fix it and thought if I paid $300-$400 it would be worth it to have a snow blower for a few more years.

But on the other hand, being almost 70 years old my peace of mind and stress free living is also more valuable to me than saving a 9 year old machine at any cost, here is what I found out about the small mechanic shops and how they make a living nowadays:
After calling 5-6 shops I soon realized every one of them are either an authorized dealer of a brand or , sell refurbished snow blowers on the side.
 so what does that mean to someone who just wants a repair to be done on their snow blower? every shop mechanic tried to convince me that I am better off buying a refurbished blower or better still , a new one if I can afford it, in the meantime they showed lack of interest/ total laziness in wanting to figure out what was the cause of high rpm in the engine.
I soon realized the way these shops make their living is, to upsell new machines , then turn around and fix the used one, probably replace the parts with whatever parts they find that fits,  and sell that Frankenstein like snow blower as " refurbished" to someone else. every one of the shops I contacted were following the same routine,.

So my wife who is a very smart woman asked:' how long were you expecting the old one to last"? according to her logic 9 years of service was like $100 a year, we got out money's worth just invest on a new one and hope it'll run trouble free for another 9 years, so that made more sense than dealing with the used machine, I went ahead and bought a new snow blower but unfortunately can not help feeling like I've been had .


I on the other hand tried at first to see if I could fix the engine myself but soon found out it was a governor issue and the linkage was to hard to reach for someone like me with zero knowledge /understanding of small engines. I decided that my peace of mind was worth more than chasing /begging mechanics to just fix the engine so I went ahead and bought a new snow blower and get rid of the old one and the the headaches that came with it.


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## RJSakowski (Dec 16, 2021)

It sounds like a fairly simple repair.  Most likely a broken or missing spring.  They are usually fairly light wire and it could have rusted through.


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## Ken from ontario (Dec 16, 2021)

RJSakowski said:


> It sounds like a fairly simple repair.  Most likely a broken or missing spring.  They are usually fairly light wire and it could have rusted through.


That's what I thought at first, but after I partially removed the covers over the throttle linkage ,cleaned up and lubed all I could I ran the engine, it became clear the issue was the governor linkage not broken or missing springs, unfortunately that meant removing the gas tank to get access to the linkage but I do not have the knowledge or understanding  of how to replace or repair the governor in small engines and was not prepared to repair replace anything more than a spring.
I did find videos on how to adjust the governor but once I attempted to remove the gas tank , it looked like  I had to remove 4 more impossible to reach bolt. at that point I was at my wits end and too frustrated to go further, decided to close it up and let a pro look at fixing it, which proved harder than I thought.


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## brino (Dec 16, 2021)

Hi Ken,

I find that is a very personal decision, with many factors that influence it.
Some of those factors:

If you feel that you've already gotten your money out of a machine, then it can be hard to justify throwing more money at it.

However, if you need a project to keep you busy (or your wife needs a project to keep you busy  ) learning about the governor, spending some time to figure out the access to it, and finally fixing it could actually be fun.

Of course all that "fun" immediately evaporates if you get 18-inches of heavy snow tomorrow! Then you're under the gun for a quick solution, that may lead you down the purchase new option path anyway.

Personally I doubt anything you buy today will be of comparable quality to a 9-year old Ariens.
(Did MTD buy them out and then immediately "cost reduce" them to crap, like almost every other mower, tiller, snowblower, etc?)

Back in 2018, I decided my old 1999 Ariens was still too good to give up on...... and it had a bigger issue:
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...d-you-do-in-your-shop-today.14637/post-546326
It is still running today!

It all comes down to your own assessment of all the factors.

-brino


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## 7milesup (Dec 16, 2021)

Interesting train of thought here.
I am in the camp of "They landed a man on the moon, I can probably fix the dang thing."   Sometimes, I relish the challenge of fixing a machine just to prove that I can do it.  I also believe that our world cannot sustain our throw-away society, and thus more of a desire for me to fix things.
My wife's boss threw away a commercial expresso machine a while ago.  I believe it cost them $3000-$4000 initially.  I actually knew what was wrong with it but I was too late.  That sort of stuff makes me sick.
But, on the flip side, I get not wanting to mess with it Ken.  I am getting more that way when it comes to my vehicles.


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## Ken from ontario (Dec 16, 2021)

The truth is, generally speaking, I do not like to accept defeat easily, if I had another fully functional snow blower  and the space to keep the old one, I probably would have kept working on the old but working on engines ,smelling like gasoline is not something that turns me on, I would only do it if had no choice, money was tight, was stranded without a possibility of getting a new one before the snow ,etc. so as 7milesup said, not wanting to mess with it is more like it if I'm not interested in the challenge, the honest truth is, I'd rather spend my time doing something more creative.


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## Ken from ontario (Dec 16, 2021)

brino said:


> Hi Ken,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You might be right Brian, the Ariens was very well made ,had linkages not cables for example , for moving the Shute, speed FWD-REV. etc., the engine was powerful enough though not acceptable by many who deal with 18"+ heavy wet snow, but good enough for me,  what you went through to fix your I could never do or would want to do but to each his own, I still admire what you did to bring it back to life it's just not my cup of tea. although it is a kind of project I don't mind watching someone else work on. if you were my neighbor, and allowed me I would have been there giving you a hand but, not something I'd accept on my own as a project.


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## projectnut (Dec 16, 2021)

The repair shops in your are far different than the ones around here.  Most would be more than happy to take on a snowblower of that age.  The bigger problem would be that you would be so far down on the list you probably wouldn't see the machine until May.  I've had an Ariens similar to Brino's since 1990.  Last year it would hardly push a leaf let alone dig into a pile of snow.  Being somewhat lazy in my old age I really didn't want to tear it apart in the garage so I asked a local shop if they would be willing to look at it.  They were more than happy to take on the job.

I was suspecting a worn friction plate since the machine is 30+ years old and has moved tons of snow in its time.  I was shocked and pleased when the shop called back saying it only needed one or possibly 2 belts.  They weren't worn but rather one was glazed to the point it slipping on the sheave.  They ordered the belts, installed the badly glazed one and gave it a try.  It worked fine so they gave me a second call saying I could pick up the machine.  When I got there I was informed that the second belt wasn't necessary and they could either send it back or I could take it as a spare.  The bill came to less than $100.00 including the spare belt.  I used the machine last weekend to move about 6" of snow at the family cottage.  It hasn't worked that well in 20 years.

As for new machines being of lower quality, I would disagree.  The Ariens that was repaired is at the family cottage replacing a 1974 Craftsman that had been there for the previous 30+ years.  It was replaced with a new Ariens model 926056 tracked model.  The newer one is a beast.  It can push through 3' drifts and piles at the end of the drive as though they weren't even there.  It's a little larger than the ST824 it replaced, and with a 14 hp engine, track drive, and a hydrostatic transmission it's easy and almost fun to operate.









						Ariens 926056 Hydro Pro Track 28" 420cc Two-Stage Snow Blower
					

The Ariens Hydro Pro Track (28-Inch) 420cc Two-Stage Snow Blower 926056 has been discontinued. Check out Expert's recommended alternatives for another top two-stage snowblower.




					www.snowblowersdirect.com
				




On Edit:  AS for the spec of the new machine being able to throw snow "up to 60 feet" that's an understatement to say the least.  The first time I was cleaning the drive I had the chute pointed straight ahead blowing snow into our back yard.  I wasn't watching where it was going very closely until I reached the end of the drive.  That's when I noticed that the snow was going over our fence 40' away, over the neighbor's backyard, over their pool and landing on the roof of their house.  That distance is well over 90'.  Fortunately, I caught it before I piled too much on the roof.  Now I turn the chute to the side as I pass our garage (it's 90* to the drive) and blow the snow into our yard.


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## matthewsx (Dec 16, 2021)

Perhaps I can give some perspective as I used to own a small engine shop and was an Ariens snowblower dealer.

First, your problem may be related to the governor linkage, an intake leak or other issue. The governor has parts both external and internal to the engine so perhaps an easy fix or not depending on factors unknown from looking at it.

What I did in my shop was to charge a half hour labor ($35 up front) on all repairs regardless of how "easy" the customer believed it would be. This allowed me to pay my mechanic, mortgage, utilities, taxes, etc. I did often suggest to customers who brought in older equipment that repair might not be a worthwhile expense given the likelihood that another component would fail and they would be right back where they started. Even re-powering with a new engine can be more expensive and less effective than you might think. I started off selling refurbished equipment at my shop but quickly learned that the only thing worth doing this with was the most basic, non-self propelled lawnmower. I would only do this when I had three such units in stock since it didn't make sense to troubleshoot one that came back from a customer and swapping it out was the best way to deal with that inevitable circumstance.

IMHO, nine years service for a snowblower in Canada is pretty good, that's why I sold Ariens and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them today. In reality, margins for authorized dealers on all of this equipment are quite low and the challenges of competing with big box stores (at least here in the US) are significant. Additionally, servicing dealers are required to purchase a certain number of new units every year regardless of how many actually sold the previous year. This is why you see "blowout" sales at the end of the season, servicing the debt of these "floorplan" purchases can be challenging in the best of times and crippling when the economy takes a dip.

The small engine business used to be a reasonable way to make a living in many towns but is much less so nowadays. Equipment isn't made to be repaired in many cases, and economic realities of commodity pricing is making is less so every day. These are mostly small owner/operator businesses which are run by very stubborn people in your community. They live and die by word of mouth and if you have more than one in your area you are lucky. It's very likely their advice is given based on years of experience and they have no desire to steer you wrong.

I hope you bought the new one from one of these independent operators, I shut my business down in 2014....

John Matthews
Heartbeat Power Products (former)


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## C-Bag (Dec 16, 2021)

That seems to be the modern Catch22. I have always hated and resisted planned obsolescence. First by not buying a purposely garbage manufacturer and only buying what appeared maintainable, simple looking. But the scam you are talking about Ken is similar to the one appliance "repair" places here are doing. If they are an outfit that sells used, I avoid them like the plague. But there is only a couple local. 

My 10yrld side by side seemed like it was running all the time and that got my attention. Then it started making this clicking sound and not getting cold. So after some research I found a guy that does only repair but all the others said, oh, you only get 10yrs out of a fridge now. WTH?!?!? Meanwhile you can't get a new white fridge, only stainless...it seemed so hopeless. Guy came out, checked it out, put this little weird relay that's only supposed to work if there's a power outage, which we'd had. $180 later good to go and I hope it stays that way. 

One of the hardest parts anymore is finding someone who knows what they are doing and can fix stuff. One of the best things about our move here was not needed powered outdoor equipment. Mowers, edgers, weedeaters, chainsaws no more, c'ya. Don't miss it at all.


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## Bi11Hudson (Dec 16, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> One of the hardest parts anymore is finding someone who knows what they are doing and can fix stuff.


It is amazing how often this is the root of a new purchase. As well as why we, as hobbyists, do what we do.

.


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## Winegrower (Dec 16, 2021)

You could take my approach, which is to try like heck to fix it, take it apart, study how it works and why it doesn’t, realize I need a new tool, get it, by then I can’t recall exactly how it goes together or where all the parts are, lose interest in the whole project and buy a new one.

I get a lot of cool tools that way.


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## matthewsx (Dec 16, 2021)

The point of my earlier post is that most local repair shops are not out to "scam" anybody, I won't say there aren't any but if they are they won't be around long.

These are local businesses which rely on word of mouth and they wouldn't last a year if they were anything less than honest. They're not box stores with huge marketing budgets and PR agencies to "shape" public opinion....

Selling used equipment is generally a way to help customers who are on a fixed income and can't afford to purchase new. Believe me, it's not a money maker by any stretch of the imagination, I did much better taking that stuff to scrap than selling it to someone who might bring it back and ask for a refund.

If you have any doubt about this please ask for the owner and discuss your suspicions, I'm sure they will give you an ear full.

This matters to me because I've been on the other end of this and it's very hurtful to have people talk behind your back when your entire livelihood is dependent on building trust in your community.

John


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## Ken from ontario (Dec 16, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> Perhaps I can give some perspective as I used to own a small engine shop and was an Ariens snowblower dealer.
> 
> First, your problem may be related to the governor linkage, an intake leak or other issue. The governor has parts both external and internal to the engine so perhaps an easy fix or not depending on factors unknown from looking at it.
> 
> ...


The Husqvarna dealer I ended up with has been around running this business with his father for 30 plus years and did say if he could get the old one going he'd make a couple of hundred bucks but after 9 years of severe service he said he would likely scrap or part it out, word of mouth according to his father is why they still have a viable business , I honestly would have preferred to pay $300 or so to fix the old one and put it back in service but since that wasn't possible , I am at ease with the money I spent and the 3 year warranty that came with the blower, it is my understanding that regardless of the warranty, I will be in good hands for many years to come.


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## Ken from ontario (Dec 16, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> The point of my earlier post is that most local repair shops are not out to "scam" anybody, I won't say there aren't any but if they are they won't be around long.
> 
> These are local businesses which rely on word of mouth and they wouldn't last a year if they were anything less than honest. They're not box stores with huge marketing budgets and PR agencies to "shape" public opinion....
> 
> ...


In my defense I never said the word a "scam " was  what was going on in this town, in fact what I was trying to say was ,out of 10 small engine repair shops 7 of them were authorized dealers and would not touch anything but their own brand, all 7 have been around for years , (could not find an Ariens dealer maybe because I didn't try hard enough) the other 3 shops out of 10 that I contacted, were new comers, young and right from the get-go they tried to plant the idea in my head that I would be better off buying one of their refurbished blowers  .
all those "established" shops did not show much interest in fixing an old snow blower, now after reading you posts I'm beginning to understand what other factors are at play here.


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## tq60 (Dec 16, 2021)

Anyone near you that works on their cars?

Sounds like governerissue and since it revs high sounds like rest I fine.

This should be a simple fix with difficulty getting to simple things.

Any smart teenagers nearby?

They work cheap and often willing to help and learn.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


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## Ken from ontario (Dec 16, 2021)

tq60 said:


> Anyone near you that works on their cars?
> *
> Sounds like governor issue and since it revs high sounds like rest I fine.*
> 
> ...


I did suspect the governor adjustment was the likely issue but after checking with a few hobby mechanics online and coming to that conclusion, I could not remove the gas tank to get to the linkage ,this was a few days ago, since then I have bought a new snow blower and left the old one with the dealer. a mechanic neighbor or a smart teenager would have needed time and space to fix the problem, had this blower been a spare one, I would have gladly let them fix it at their own pace.


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## john.oliver35 (Dec 16, 2021)

I have had several pieces of small equipment or appliances that I could figure out what was wrong with them (possibly), but didn't have time or desire to deal with it at that time.  Listed them as free on Craiglist along with a description of what I thought was wrong, put them on the curb, and they always disappear that day.  Then someone better than I can either fix it or scrap it!


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## matthewsx (Dec 16, 2021)

Ken from ontario said:


> In my defense I never said the word a "scam " was  what was going on in this town, in fact what I was trying to say was ,out of 10 small engine repair shops 7 of them were authorized dealers and would not touch anything but their own brand, all 7 have been around for years , (could not find an Ariens dealer maybe because I didn't try hard enough) the other 3 shops out of 10 that I contacted, were new comers, young and right from the get-go they tried to plant the idea in my head that I would be better off buying one of their refurbished blowers  .
> all those "established" shops did not show much interest in fixing an old snow blower, now after reading you posts I'm beginning to understand what other factors are at play here.


No offense intended, I think someone else used the "s" word.

Sounds like there are some enterprising young folks trying to get started in your area, hopefully they'll be able to find a business model that works for them.

If you've ever had the pleasure of taking one of these apart you'll soon find out why repair is often more than the machine is worth. I had plenty of customers like you where I had to talk them out of fixing something, my general thought is if repair is more than 1/3 the cost of buying new it doesn't make sense.

The biggest thing is repair shops need to stand by their work. One of the hardest things for me was on a cold winter morning when the guy would roll up in his old pickup with a carburetor in a box and ask me if I could fix it. I knew from the community he probably couldn't afford even a used blower if I had one and his doctor likely told him to stop shoveling after they bypass surgery. I would politely explain that I couldn't "fix" the machine by repairing just one part, then I would spend half an hour explaining how to install the $4 carb kit I was going to sell to him (sometimes my only sale that day).

Maybe that's just how I ran my shop but I talked with plenty of other folks in the business who had similar stories....

There are things I miss about that business, like the big shop and room for machines and projects. But in the end I had to let it go, not enough high end customers in the summer time to keep it going through the winter.

John


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## matthewsx (Dec 16, 2021)

tq60 said:


> Anyone near you that works on their cars?
> 
> Sounds like governerissue and since it revs high sounds like rest I fine.
> 
> ...


Trouble is the governor often breaks on the inside. Then the only way to get at it is to remove the engine, extract the pulley if you can (9 years of rust is a powerful thing), and open the side cover to get at those parts.

Fine thing to do if you just want to check it out but when you're charging $70/hr the bill can get out of hand very quickly. Repowering is an option but at ~$450 you're way to far along the path to replacement (and again rust).

This generation of Ariens probably has the Briggs 305cc 8hp motor, I used to build them up for kart racing to over 30hp....

John


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## matthewsx (Dec 16, 2021)

I like the story of the small engine mechanic who was looking for a place to spend his retirement.

He loaded a snowblower up in the back of his truck and headed south. First place where someone asked what it was he stopped and settled down.   

John


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## mmcmdl (Dec 16, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> I like the story of the small engine mechanic who was looking for a place to spend his retirement.
> 
> He loaded a snowblower up in the back of his truck and headed south. First place where someone asked what it was he stopped and settled down.


Now that there is funny !


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## mmcmdl (Dec 16, 2021)

This is a great thread which I may contribute to . I make a few bucks flipping tractors , snowblowers as well as anything with a motor . I picked up a hydro Toro for free 2 weeks ago and put 11 bucks into it . It runs like a top and I'll get $500 bucks out of it . 10 minutes work and a beer to enjoy while doing it . I own an Ariens blower as well . Bought it brand new for 599.99 and still has the tag on it . Used once with ethanol gas , maybe 10 years ago . Hasn't run since . I'll get it back up and running one day but it's not on the hot to do list . I own shovels , have 3 kids and a wife , and the Kubota FEL for snow duty ( at least one of the mentioned handles the snow ) !  As far as working on these things , it's what I enjoy and find it much more entertaining than machining something . It is also more profitable for me . Chainsaws are another issue . Repairs can sometimes be quite expensive . They wanted more to fix my Stihl than what I paid for it new . They didn't even pull anything and said I needed a full repower . BS . I bought a pair of new Huskies . To say the least , my garage is packed with things people gave up on . Not me . I enjoy the learning from my failures .  I also happen to live 5 minutes from these guys who treat me VERY well . 



			https://www.jackssmallengines.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9OfezOfp9AIVvAaICR1liwveEAAYASAAEgIA4PD_BwE


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## Ken from ontario (Dec 16, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> If you've ever had the pleasure of taking one of these apart you'll soon find ou*t why repair is often more than the machine is worth*. I had plenty of customers like you where I had to talk them out of fixing something, my general thought is* if repair is more than 1/3 the cost of buying new it doesn't make sense.
> *
> 
> 
> John





matthewsx said:


> Trouble is the* governor often breaks on the inside. Then the only way to get at it is to remove the engine, extract the pulley if you can (9 years of rust is a powerful thing), and open the side cover to get at those parts.*
> 
> Fine thing to do if you just want to check it out but *when you're charging $70/hr the bill can get out of hand very quickly. Repowering is an option but at ~$450 you're way to far along the path to replacement (and again rust).*
> 
> ...


The few comments above were almost exactly what the shop owner had  told me that eventually convinced me to have faith in him, that I was  making the right choice,  I do appreciate all the thought and opinions I received in this thread but as an ex "small engine repair shop" owner, your posts made me look at the whole picture , it was easy to be cynical when I was too frustrated  to see both sides. thank you for chiming in .


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## jwmay (Dec 16, 2021)

tq60 said:


> Any smart teenagers nearby?


I think they stopped making those in the 70's.


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## C-Bag (Dec 16, 2021)

Yeah, I too was hoping John would chime in as I knew he would have a piece of the puzzle that I didn’t have.

I have a neighbor who asked me where to get rid of a basically new Craftsman 4cycle weed eater. He said it wouldn’t start, so I asked if I could take a look. It was something in the starter pawl as it wouldn’t catch consistently. Took it apart and it had the cheapest flimsiest mechanism I think I’ve ever seen and basically a little sheetmetal clip had failed. Told him to get a new part and they had changed it and it wasn’t available. So that to me would be a double fail if it was in a shop and I was facing the customer. To charge him to tell him I can’t get parts.


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## Ken from ontario (Dec 16, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> Yeah, I too was hoping John would chime in as I knew he would have a piece of the puzzle that I didn’t have.
> 
> I have a neighbor who asked me where to get rid of a basically new Craftsman 4cycle weed eater. He said it wouldn’t start, so I asked if I could take a look. It was something in the starter pawl as it wouldn’t catch consistently. Took it apart and it had the cheapest flimsiest mechanism I think I’ve ever seen and basically a little sheetmetal clip had failed. *Told him to get a new part and they had changed it and it wasn’t available. So that to me would be a double fail if it was in a shop and I was facing the customer. To charge him to tell him I can’t get parts.*


Good point Tony.
I suppose two words any repair shop person hates to hear, unavailable and  discontinued. lol.


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## C-Bag (Dec 16, 2021)

Ken from ontario said:


> Good point Tony.
> I suppose two word any repair shop person hates to hear, unavailable and  discontinued. lol.


Even worse “it’s the nature of the beast”. That was the line that drove me out of auto repair in the late 80’s. My mom had ‘80 Olds Omega. From the day they bought it, it was never right. The thing that drove me crazy was if you were on the highway with the cruise on after about an hour the check the engine light would come on. It had full gauges and you could see nothing was amiss. If you kicked it out of cruise the light would go off. Cruise on, it would come back on eventually. I asked one of my teachers at college about it and he’d done a training with the man at GM who designed the C3 system and he asked him about it. His reply, nature of the beast. His fix, put a piece of tape over the light


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## matthewsx (Dec 16, 2021)

jwmay said:


> I think they stopped making those in the 70's.


They’re still out there, but there are more things to get their interest now.


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## matthewsx (Dec 16, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> This is a great thread which I may contribute to . I make a few bucks flipping tractors , snowblowers as well as anything with a motor . I picked up a hydro Toro for free 2 weeks ago and put 11 bucks into it . It runs like a top and I'll get $500 bucks out of it . 10 minutes work and a beer to enjoy while doing it . I own an Ariens blower as well . Bought it brand new for 599.99 and still has the tag on it . Used once with ethanol gas , maybe 10 years ago . Hasn't run since . I'll get it back up and running one day but it's not on the hot to do list . I own shovels , have 3 kids and a wife , and the Kubota FEL for snow duty ( at least one of the mentioned handles the snow ) !  As far as working on these things , it's what I enjoy and find it much more entertaining than machining something . It is also more profitable for me . Chainsaws are another issue . Repairs can sometimes be quite expensive . They wanted more to fix my Stihl than what I paid for it new . They didn't even pull anything and said I needed a full repower . BS . I bought a pair of new Huskies . To say the least , my garage is packed with things people gave up on . Not me . I enjoy the learning from my failures .  I also happen to live 5 minutes from these guys who treat me VERY well .
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.jackssmallengines.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9OfezOfp9AIVvAaICR1liwveEAAYASAAEgIA4PD_BwE


Love Jacks, many times I had to go to them for stuff that was discontinued or I couldn’t get from my regular suppliers.

They have great prices on new engines too if anyone wants to take a shot at repowering something.

John


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## mmcmdl (Dec 16, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> Love Jacks, many times I had to go to them for stuff that was discontinued or I couldn’t get from my regular suppliers.
> 
> They have great prices on new engines too if anyone wants to take a shot at repowering something.
> 
> John


Hey John . I'm on a first name basis with these guys and girls and am considering working for them depending on my future issues . It is a 5 minute drive for me . I've spent numerous hours in their shop hanging out with them . The shop is pretty nice but zero machine tools as we know them . They loved the idea of having an onsite machinist . But anyways , I spend way too much money at the place , but they do give me stuff for free also . They have had or have gotten me anything and everything I've ever dreamed of too like you said . If it was manufactured , they'll find it . As it is , the pay stinks from what they tell me . That wouldn't be a deal breaker for me if I do retire . I find it enjoyable to be around this kind of stuff ..................................maybe I'm sick .


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## projectnut (Dec 17, 2021)

Like John I spent many years in the small engine repair business.  I started in the early 1960's when still in high school as a part time job and did it through the late 1970's when I sold the repair shops.  I learned from 2 uncles that both had small engine shops.  One had a shop that specialized in Bolens and Ariens machines until the 1990's.  I loved the later model Bolens machines and had a couple over the years.  My love affair with them ended when specialized parts no longer became available.  The last straw was having to pay $175.00 wholesale for a coil for one of the tractors.  Bolens had it specially made for that model.  The Ariens snowblower that was recently repaired was purchased from him in 1990.  It's still running strong, although it could use some fresh paint.

Unlike John or any of my relatives I chose to repair machines only.  No new or used equipment sales.  Only 1 time did I sell a used machine to a customer and regretted it.  The guy was cheap to say the least.  So cheap in fact that he thought he could use 32;1 gas/oil mix in any engine he had rather than straight gas in 4 cycle engines.  About once a month he would call complaining the mower I sold him wouldn't start.  I took it in cleaned out the gas tank, put in a new plug and it started every time.  After the third time in he admitted he was using the gas/oil mix.  It would run ok as long as the engine was hot, but once it cooled down it either wouldn't start or was extremely hard to start.

When I found he was using the gas/oil mix I cautioned him not to do it in the future.  He got a little heated and said: It's my mower, and I'll use the kind of gas I want too".  That's when we parted ways.  I had to tell him that if he continued to use the mix, I would refuse to do any future repairs.  It was a money losing situation from the beginning.  I thought I was doing him a favor by selling him a used machine for $25.00.  In the end I spent more in time and materials than it was worth.  From then on, all the machines that couldn't be repaired or were cheaper to replace than repair went home with the customer or to the recycler.


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## Nutfarmer (Dec 17, 2021)

It's the cost of labor that limits repairs on most things. The labor cost isn't so much what the employee takes home ,but the other associates costs. Workmans comp can be 20 percent or more . Federal taxes are 15.3 percent on payroll. Then there are state taxes on top of that. On top of that is the overhead that has to be figured in and a shop that charges 90 or 100 a hour can only afford to pay 20 to 30 to their employees. Strange word we live in.


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## Ken from ontario (Dec 17, 2021)

Nutfarmer said:


> It's the cost of labor that limits repairs on most things. The labor cost isn't so much what the employee takes home ,but the other associates costs. Workmans comp can be 20 percent or more . Federal taxes are 15.3 percent on payroll. Then there are state taxes on top of that. On top of that is the overhead that has to be figured in and a shop that charges 90 or 100 a hour can only afford to pay 20 to 30 to their employees. Strange word we live in.


Newer shops around here advertise their lower hourly charge in the hopes of competing with the well established shops, $75 is the average in my city but $60 is often seen, I don't know how they can survive , the lower wage mechanice also offer pickup/drop off or onsite tune-ups;








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## John O (Dec 17, 2021)

Ken from ontario said:


> Newer shops around here advertise their lower hourly charge in the hopes of competing with the well established shops, $75 is the average in my city but $60 is often seen, I don't know how they can survive , the lower wage mechanice also offer pickup/drop off or onsite tune-ups;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No over head on this, part time out of house.
For a tune up only parts needed fuel filter and plug so $5 to $10 in parts hmmm I should do this.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 17, 2021)

$30 an hour and I'd retire to the garage !


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## matthewsx (Dec 17, 2021)

John O said:


> No over head on this, part time out of house.
> For a tune up only parts needed fuel filter and plug so $5 to $10 in parts hmmm I should do this.


Don't forget the oil change, and draining the old gas, and the carb kit.....

There was/is an old guy that worked out of his garage when I started my business (actually two). One of them had a great saying, "people want me to make chicken soup, but they bring me chicken **it"

If you can do this work from your garage, and aren't worried about liability I'd say go for it. There's lots of need and working with no overhead is really the only way to make it pay.

Let me know if you need any tips   

John


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## slow-poke (Dec 21, 2021)

About 25 years ago I purchased my first snowblower Honda. three years ago we were moving and so I decided to sell it and get another in the new city we were moving to. It was still working as new.  It sold in a day for $200 less than I paid new. Must have been 10 offers, people love these things.

Prices had gone up, a new Honda forget the model with the tracks and continuous variable speed transmission was not cheap, fortunately dealer had a nice used one recently traded in because the owner moved to a condo. I have only had it 3 years, hope it is as good as the last one. I’m a huge fan of Honda small engine stuff.

similar experience with lawnmowers, same time I purchased the new Honda I also purchased a craftsman lawnmower, it sucked, sold it after a year and purchased a new Lawnboy, it sucked even more. Walking down our street guy has an old Honda for sale $50, I buy it he tells me it’s old, it runs like a top for the next 20+ years, cuts way better than the new Craftsman or Lawnboy. I sold it for $30 when we moved and bought a used craftsman with a Honda engine, it ran well but was just not as good as my old Honda, sold it and bought a brand new genuine Honda, I’m happy again just like the original.

The Honda is quieter, easier to maneuver and cuts better. Never an issue to start. I’m a Honda fanboy.


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## Ken from ontario (Dec 21, 2021)

slow-poke said:


> About 25 years ago I purchased my first snowblower Honda. three years ago we were moving and so I decided to sell it and get another in the new city we were moving to. It was still working as new.  It sold in a day for $200 less than I paid new. Must have been 10 offers, people love these things.
> 
> Prices had gone up a new Honda forget the model with the tracks and continuous variable speed transmission was not cheap, fortunately dealer had a nice used one recently traded in because the owner moved to a condo. *I have only had it 3 years, hope it is as good as the last one. I’m a huge fan of Honda small engine stuff.*


I think Honda small engines on any machine is a safer bet than B & S and LCT ,etc. I have a Honda lawnmower with electric ignition (Honda HRX) and after 8 years of use I've had zero problem with it, I couldn't find a snowblower with Honda engine in my area ,I'm sure the price would have been much higher.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 21, 2021)

For you guys up north , the son pulled back home from Toronto Sunday night bringing Toronto's salt home with him on the truck ! Please it that snow NOTB !


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## Ken from ontario (Dec 21, 2021)

Salt,  Toronto can not survive winters without it.


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## slow-poke (Dec 21, 2021)

Ken from ontario said:


> Salt,  Toronto can not survive winters without it.


IMO half the drivers in Toronto have no idea how to drive in the snow.

I learned to drive in Winnipeg……

Don’t try this at home kids…… How to stop a car in January in Winnipeg with iffy summer tires in the 70’s when your a wreckless  teenager in way too much of a hurry.

Oh sh.t that stop sign is getting too close too quickly.
1) pump the brakes, little effect we’re on black ice.
2) Clutch in, heel modulating brakes, toe on gas, rev it up dump it in reverse, get the tires going backwards while pumping the brakes. Usually helps a fair bit and often works,  if not proceed to level 3.
3) Level 3 still not going to stop in time, 20 feet from the stop sign turn directly into and up the 6’ high snow bank this  really takes the energy out of the car, timing is everything need just enough so you can roll backwards to a few feet before the stop sign, without getting stuck half way up. Disaster avoided. I’m not joking, I did this too many times.

Now I’m often the old geezer in the slow lane. Keep in mind no tickets, no accidents for almost 50 years.


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## westerner (Dec 21, 2021)

slow-poke said:


> I’m a Honda fanboy.


Yup. Been fixing small engines since the old 'tote-goat' days. A minibike, no suspension, 5 hp horizontal shaft Briggs or Tecumseh. 
Honda reliability and longevity have them both beat hands down.
The same machine, regardless of which one, costs considerably more with Honda power than any of the other choices. 

Money well spent, I say.


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## matthewsx (Dec 22, 2021)

Honda branded equipment is usually very nice, I was a Honda snowblower and engine dealer but couldn’t get the mowers. Think I only sold one or two blowers the whole time I had the shop.

They do have some lower end stuff that goes on the big box equipment. Those aren’t the same in my experience.

John


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