# Am I asking for trouble



## Aurelius (May 31, 2021)

Ok, so I am in the process of clearing out my basement to make room for a lathe.  I am looking to get a PM 1127 which is super convenient because I'm in Pittsburgh and PM is just on the other side of town.  As this is my first "real" tool, I am likely going to hire a rigging company to pick the machine up, transport it, move in into the basement via the Bilco door, and hoist it onto the stand which I will have decided on and will have waiting for it.

As I mentioned, I am in Pittsburgh and the house is a tad over 110 years old.  It is the typical Pittsburgh basement, nice thick foundation but when it rains we get water.  Usually not a lot and we are going to have some roof gutter work done in the coming months so the amount should be greatly decreased. 

As I said, this is my first real tool and I'm leaning as I go, especially whne it comes to regular maintenance, so I wanted to check, is this going to completely mess things up and rust out the whole machine or am I making mountains out of molehills?


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## rabler (May 31, 2021)

The two things that will greatly speed rust is direct contact with water, and condensation.  Is the basement temperature controlled? Can you install a dehumidifier , preferably so it has a direct drain rather than a bucket you have to empty?  Obviously a wet basement isn’t ideal, but if you can manage the humidity you are greatly ahead of the issues.

Downspout extensions can help make a difference once the gutters are fixed.


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## Aurelius (May 31, 2021)

There is temperature control.  In fact, I am going to be set up about 25' from the furnace.  There is a duct right there with a vent. 

As for a dehumidifier, we actually inherited on when we bought the house.  It is situated right next to the furnace and the hose runs right into the same floor drain as the furnace.  We have never used it as we have never had a need. 

I'm hoping the roof and gutter work will make this much more of a non-issue, but it just popped into my head, so I thought I would ask.


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## RJSakowski (May 31, 2021)

I love live in a 110 y.o. house with a limestone/sandstone foundation.  The stone as well as the mortar is porous so intrusion by water is a distinct possibility.  Over the course of time, we have put a new roof on the house, installed gutters, and graded around the foundation to direct water away,

I happen to have the advantage of gravity drainage and I put a gutter around the perimeter of the foundation's inside wall when we poured a new basement floor.  With heavy rains, I will still get some water intrusion but none in the rooms where my machines are.

I run a dehumidifier set a 50% RH essentially nonstop from mid May through October.  Along with the central air, I can keep the RH at less than 60%.  I do not have a problem with machines rusting.

Of the preventive measures, keeping water away from the foundation is perhaps the most important.  A dehumidifier is limited in the amount of water it can remove.  Mine pulls around 20 pints a day out of the air.  If more than that were seeping in, it would be a losing battle. 

One solution would be to excavate around the foundation and lay polyethylene sheet and cover with the excavated soil.

Edited


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## Aurelius (May 31, 2021)

Actually, we just got the hardscaping done aroudn the house last fall and made sure the concrete was graded away from the house.  It helped a lot.  The issue now is when we get a lot of rain it is coming in the areas where the current roof dumps too much for the soil to handle.  It's not really that bad.  When it rains really hard, we will get some water in that will go straight to the drain or, worst case, take about a day to completely dry up.
Like I said, I'm hoping the new roof/gutters will  mostly fix it, but it's good to know it can be managed otherwise.


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## MrWhoopee (Jun 1, 2021)

RJSakowski said:


> I love in a 110 y.o. house with a limestone/sandstone foundation.


Way more than we need to know.


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## FOMOGO (Jun 1, 2021)

Come on now love is a good thing. Actually a great thing, and perhaps the greatest thing of all. Mike



MrWhoopee said:


> Way more than we need to know.


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## wrat (Jun 1, 2021)

First thing is a place.  If you have the place - dry, stable, etc. - then you can look at a machine.
No matter how close PM is to you, if the machine isn't in stock, you're looking at a wait.  
I've been waiting for over a month and am told it will be two more.


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## RJSakowski (Jun 1, 2021)

MrWhoopee said:


> Way more than we need to know.


 I have got to see an ophthalmologist.


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## Janderso (Jun 1, 2021)

At first I thought, a rigger for an 11x27 lathe??
It is 575 LBS.
Riggers are just so much money!
If you can somehow come up with an alternate plan and spend that money on tooling??
Is your basement access outside? Steep narrow steps going down?
Plenty of HM members have slid their Bridgeports down basement steps on skids.. Cherry picker, pallet jack etc.
Just trying to help.
Aurelius​Welcome to HM


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## markba633csi (Jun 1, 2021)

I was thinking the same thing- could you not buy a HF engine hoist and some strapping, and rent a u-haul? Way cheaper I would think
Or, just have PM ship it and buy the hoist? Maybe a come-along too? Seems like anything would be cheaper than a rigger
-M


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## RJSakowski (Jun 1, 2021)

@Aurelius  My basement entrance would be very similar to yours.  I slid all my machines down a ramp made from 2 x 6's.  I used a tractor for an anchor and a come-along to control the descent down the ramp. The ramp extended far enough at the top that I could load the machine  on a level ramp.  Once the machine was secured , I could tilt the ramp and then start the descent.

I used pipe rollers to move the machine to the approximate location.  A couple of jimmys were also used to walk the machine.  I used a variety of methods to lift machines onto stands including a sky hook in the above floor joists and a borrowed engine hoist.  All this was done by me alone.


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## Gaffer (Jun 1, 2021)

Welcome to HM Aurelius,

I agree with our brethren above. Last year when I bought my Colchester, I called a rigger. He said he would give me a deal and do it for $1,200 - no stairs or tight spaces. I rented a trailer, brought my engine hoist, straps, pipes, come-along, etc, and did it myself. It took most of the day but saved me a lot of money for tooling, etc. If you don't mind saying, what did your rigger quote you?


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## Aurelius (Jun 1, 2021)

wrat said:


> First thing is a place.  If you have the place - dry, stable, etc. - then you can look at a machine.
> No matter how close PM is to you, if the machine isn't in stock, you're looking at a wait.
> I've been waiting for over a month and am told it will be two more.


Oh, I know it's backordered until probably the end of the summer.  It actually has given me the time to figure out important stuff like how it's going to get into the basement and where all the stuff that is currently down there is going to go to make room. 



Janderso said:


> At first I thought, a rigger for an 11x27 lathe??
> It is 575 LBS.
> Riggers are just so much money!
> If you can somehow come up with an alternate plan and spend that money on tooling??
> ...



I'm going to be making calls today and I might be forced to re-evaluate but right now, I don't feel like I could safely get it down the fairly narrow stair without completely screwing up the brand new concrete we did last fall (much less the door way or the lathe itself.  Even  if I could get it in, there is stil lthe issue of getting it up on the stand and I have fairly low ceilings so I'm not even sure an engine hoist would work.  In addition, I don't have an engine hoist so would have to go buy one.  I know they are not that expensive but it starts to add up.  My thinking was $200 shipping from PM + $50 liftgate service + $200 for a hoist + beer money to bribe people to help starts getting close to what a rigger might cost (or maybe I'm completely ignorant, we'll see).


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## Janderso (Jun 1, 2021)

RJSakowski said:


> I have got to see an ophthalmologist.


What kind of fish is that RJ?


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## Janderso (Jun 1, 2021)

Aurelius said:


> Oh, I know it's backordered until probably the end of the summer.  It actually has given me the time to figure out important stuff like how it's going to get into the basement and where all the stuff that is currently down there is going to go to make room.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to be making calls today and I might be forced to re-evaluate but right now, I don't feel like I could safely get it down the fairly narrow stair without completely screwing up the brand new concrete we did last fall (much less the door way or the lathe itself.  Even  if I could get it in, there is stil lthe issue of getting it up on the stand and I have fairly low ceilings so I'm not even sure an engine hoist would work.  In addition, I don't have an engine hoist so would have to go buy one.  I know they are not that expensive but it starts to add up.  My thinking was $200 shipping from PM + $50 liftgate service + $200 for a hoist + beer money to bribe people to help starts getting close to what a rigger might cost (or maybe I'm completely ignorant, we'll see).


Every machine tool move is an event. We all have lots of stories don't we guys!!


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## Badabinski (Jun 1, 2021)

I can definitely understand wanting to hire a rigger. If you've got the spondulix and you're not sure if you can do it safely, then I think it's a good idea. I've never hired one, but the worst thing I've had to deal with is a grass lawn and some stone pavers. If I had to move a big machine down some stairs I think I'd absolutely pay someone.


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## markba633csi (Jun 1, 2021)

I'm not sure if riggers even are willing to go down stairs?  Anyhow I think you are looking at 1500$ or more at least
Maybe call some piano movers and ask if they could do something like a lathe? Tell them the size and weight
-M


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## RJSakowski (Jun 1, 2021)

Janderso said:


> What kind of fish is that RJ?


It is a walleye, a member of the percidae family, of which walleye, sauger, and yellow perch are the main members.  That fish weighed in at around 5lbs, large for the species but only 1/5th the world record.  I usually catch a half dozen or so of this size each year.  My personal best is 8 lbs.

All three species are excellent eating. IMO, the best fresh water fish in North America.


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## Janderso (Jun 2, 2021)

I’ll be darned.
Lake, river fishing?
What part of the country if you don’t mind me asking?


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## B2 (Nov 29, 2021)

Hi 


Aurelius said:


> As this is my first "real" tool, I am likely going to hire a rigging company to pick the machine up, transport it, move in into the basement via the Bilco door, and hoist it onto the stand which I will have decided on and will have waiting for it.


I too live in Pittsburgh, in the city.  My house was built in 1930.   Over a period of a few years, I purchased both a PM940M-CNC and a PM1440GT from PM.  In each case they delivered the machine to me.  They haul with a tilting trailer and so can just roll the equipment off to the street.   For the 940 they simply dropped it off on the pallet, but brought a pallet jack and rolled it down the driveway and into the garage. I then worked on it and later moved it into the basement myself.   In the case of the PM9400GT they made two trips, one for the lathe and a second to bring a fork lift.  In this case they were able to use extended tinges on the fork lift and actually set it inside the door of my basement.   My basement door and floor is about 2.5' higher than the driveway so I built some support structure over the door way steps to help them a bit.   However, others have had the Bilco door arrangements and have removed any wooden stairs to make the bottom level with the basement floor and then just lowered the machinery into the hole.  I think  @davidpbest  said he actually knocked out a wall and put in Bilco doors or similar and then he brings equipment in this way.  He posted some pictures of his mill being put through the doors.  https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/albums/72157706051422605   .  

Anyway, when you make some decisions and study your facilities a bit maybe you should just talk to Matt at PM about delivery.  His guys are very helpful, know how to handle the equipment, and are careful.  Matt is very reasonable.   Certainly more experienced at this than most riggers. There are lots of riggers in the Pgh area, however if you want a good rigger that I have experience with I suggest you call Benkart Rigging.  They moved and helped me install some 22 foot long, 10x8' I-beams into my house when I was remodeling in 2011.  They treated me right.  

You might want to post a  few pictures of your entrance way and structures so that people can make suggestions.  

Dave L.


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