# Die holder for the lathe...



## Bob Kelly III (Oct 25, 2019)

the last 2 days I've been scraping together enough material to make a die holder for the Logan 922
because I have a drawer full of  small round dies that do not have a handle.... these dies went through the ranch fore and the die holder being aluminum melted
so I gathered them up and saved them... so I made a die holder for those tiny round dies out of a length of 3/4" pipe and a short piece of 1" pipe
and a cut down piece of solid 2" rod to reinforce the outside of that 1" pipe .... i had to re do many things many times but I finally came up with a die holder for those small round dies added a handle to it and measured the travel it had it has 5.5" of liniar travel from the tailstock forward the whole thing is probably about 15" long
... I put it in the lathe to try it out and low and behold I could not get the die to bite into the metal....thinking it was because of the diameter of the rod I stopped and trimmed down the rod some..... and went too far ( no I don't have any good measuring equipment !) 
anyway.... I discovered the dies were too dull to use.... I tried to sharpen 1 with a chainsaw file but the results were less than stellar ! so looks like I did all that work for not
...but on the bright side, I do have some sharp small round dies that I will try in that die holder tomorrow ! 
sorry , no pictures,...... it's nothing to brag about anyway... but it looks like it will work good ! we'll see !
....
i figured if I can't single point thread right now, I could use the lathe to power a die holder.... or at least I thought I could LOL
....
any one know of a way to sharpen dies and re temper them ? I hate to throw something like them away, but it's looking like their more trouble than they're worth !

.....
later !
Bob.........


----------



## mmcmdl (Oct 25, 2019)

Make sure they are cutting dies and not reforming dies . There is a difference . You also want a large lead on your stock . Give it a nice push and let your tailstock feed in . Oil on the ways is needed also if you don't like breaking things . ( ask me how I know )


----------



## Bob Kelly III (Oct 25, 2019)

A reforming Die ? never heard of such a thing....  though, i take it from the name, they are a specially made die that is used to re form beat up threads instead of just re cutting them ? ...very useful on threaded rod I bet !!!!!

....
no I am sure they are all normal dies nothing special about them except they went through the Ranch fire and are all untempered now.... 
I believe 1/2 of them are from Harbor freight , the cheap ones you regret buying once you open the box.... but some are good american made ones
they were in a wooden box .... and I used them on everything.... can't tell by looking now though........ same thing with the taps 
.....
one thing about my lathe it is WELL OILED ! LOL........
Bob....


----------



## Nutfarmer (Oct 25, 2019)

The heat from the fire probably took the temper out of the dies so they are too soft to cut. Sorry for your losses in the ranch fire.


----------



## Bob Kelly III (Oct 25, 2019)

thanks ! it was the most devastating thing in my life so far !  down right rude !
....yah that is what I figured too they lost their temper.... I figure if I heat them up to cherry red and drop them in a bucket of water they will re temper but how do you sharpen something like that ? after being intensely heated the sharp edges are gone so they would have to be sharpened
maybe with a Dremel and small cylindrical stone I can get in the reliefs and grind them to a sharp edge.... but no Demel ! it's always something ! 
LOL......
Bob....


----------



## ericc (Oct 25, 2019)

Was WEED in the path of the Ranch fire?  That thing must have been huge.

Do a spark test.  Don't bother heat treating HSS.  It is difficult.  If they are simple carbon steel, a torch might work.  You must prevent decarburizing the teeth with some boric acid and ss foil or wire.


----------



## RJSakowski (Oct 25, 2019)

If the dies were carbon steel, as most of the hardware store variety seem to be nowadays, the fire would have pulled the temper.  The fire shouldn't have affected any HSS dies as they would have had to be heated to a red heat to soften them.  Dies are resharpened by grinding.  A Dremel tool and grinding tip should work.


----------



## Bob Kelly III (Oct 25, 2019)

OK... very good ! ( love the spark test idea to tell what the metal is ! great idea ! )
......
that Ranch fire was so hot it melted everything Aluminum on the property.... un tempered axe heads hammers and files  I had no idea burning wood would get any where near as hot as that fire did !.... I lost 6 motorcycles all melted to the ground with big puddles under them of aluminum
and the fire fighters just watched them burn they never even tried to save any of them.  I would have lost my toyota pickup as well  if I hadn't said to the cop hay I have to go... we'll continue your report in a bit ! and i ran down and moved my pickup which the turn signals had begun to melt.
that is the only thing I saved from the fire , that and what was in the oil shed.... it never burned..... My gyro was skirted around by the fire but the 6061 t6 aluminum turned soft..... ( de tempered)  
the fire fighters were only there to keep the fire from spreading , not to save my stuff and never raised a hand in that regard, though several guns disappeared that I am sure were still repairable....  I moved into a 36' school bus I had converted to a camper, but had the engine out...
and there I lived for 4 years till the county told me I couldn't live there any more. I couldn't re build because of the Horrendous permit costs and building codes , and I couldn't get a owner/builder loan on the land...  so we bought this place for zero down and got away from it all.
it was one of the hardest times in my entire life..... there is a time and place for insurance... that was it.... we didn't have any, so we were out cold
and couldn't afford to rebuild even a one room house !
....the fire started from a Bad old electrical box....... or my grinding not sure which !.... I took the wife to the airport to go on vacation with her Mom...
came back to a big column of smoke !....
..... we have fire insurance on this place anyway.....  but the monthly payment is more than my SSI check !
LOL
Bob......


----------



## Latinrascalrg1 (Oct 25, 2019)

RJSakowski said:


> If the dies were carbon steel, as most of the hardware store variety seem to be nowadays, the fire would have pulled the temper.  The fire shouldn't have affected any HSS dies as they would have had to be heated to a red heat to soften them.  Dies are resharpened by grinding.  A Dremel tool and grinding tip should work.



Wouldn't you be able to re-hardened those carbon dies by reheating to proper temps before dunking in oil or water depending on what your working with?


----------



## RJSakowski (Oct 25, 2019)

Latinrascalrg1 said:


> Wouldn't you be able to re-hardened those carbon dies by reheating to proper temps before dunking in oil or water depending on what your working with?


Yes, you should be able to in theory.  What isn't known is what the alloy formulation is and therefore, what would be the hardening/quenching/tempering process.  I would want to do it in an oven rather than flame hardening to better control uniformity.  Packing the die in charcoal or graphite would prevent leaching carbon from the surface of the die and also prevent oxidation.  I would lean towards water or brine quench rather than oil. It should give a maximum Rc.  The geometry is simple enough that distortion shouldn't be an issue. I would also keep the tempering temperature low to keep the hatdness as great as possible..  Again an oven would be the beast choice for heating.when tempering.


----------



## Bob Kelly III (Oct 25, 2019)

I was just thinking of not getting too technical with it  and just heat them one at a time to cherry red and drop them in a bucket of water
the way they are is useless so what do I have to loose ? LOL....
......
all my tools were in that fire except the 3 in 1  it was in the oil shed. My big old drill press was taken completely out  the main round support got so hot it bent over with the weight of a flat roof that came down on it..... the cast iron is fine and I saved all those pieces ! LOL....
i had made up a grinder stand that was out of a drive line from a truck fairly thin wall but big in diameter it melted and bent over like a pretzel
that is how hot that fire was ! well over red hot well into the melting stage on some items 
and FAST that fire in 15 minutes was threatening my neighbors house !  about 1000 ft away but Cal fire stopped it at his door step.
....all the tanks I had of oxy/acet. all vented safely no big explosions happened a 55 gal drum also vented itself ( it had diesel in it) 
same with the 3 or 4 propane bottles they all vented themselves  even the very old one 
it is totally amazing how hot a house fire can get and how selective it's destruction can be....
just in the dry grass leading up to the quonset hut shop where most of my tools were there was a wheelbarrow parked in the grass out of the way....
it got so hot the tubing bent under it's own weight !  and was laying on the ground....
the fire went like a tornado through the quonset hut..... the roof tried to collapse on it and it was an old military steel quonset hut !
to this day when my Dog smells smoke he gets nervous and barks ! it scared him bad ! 
anyway we got all the critters to safety, or at least my Kid did ....
by the time I got home the house was fully engulfed , a highway patrol was there 5 fire trucks and several emergency vehicles  that 20 acres never had so many visitors at once LOL....
oh well, easy come easy go I guess ! 
.....
I had the shirt on my back and what I was wearing.... everything else was gone in the time it took me to drive to town and back (about 45 minutes !)
and the wife.... she was on vacation with her Mother ! LOL.... and that was probably a good thing but she came back to nothing as well !
..... it was one heck of a long adventure that I never wanted ! LOL....it took a year to get the bare necessities again....it was not fun at all.
......
we seldom realise how good we have it till it's taken away in a fire like that.... 
....
keep fire insurance on your houses guys !!!!
Bob.........


----------

