# South Bend Junior Introduction



## silverhawk (Dec 6, 2015)

Hey, folks!

I'm new around here (obviously).  I recently found an old South Bend 9" lathe (in pieces) advertised in the local classifieds.  I'd wanted a good metal lathe (and had an old 1941 craftsman wood lathe that included a compound slide for "light" metal turning).  I saw the ad, and made him an offer.  The next thing I knew, I was taking home a South Bend.  I had no idea what I had - I knew I just wanted this thing.

I purchased the serial card from Grizzly, to find out that this wasn't the usual "workshop" 9" - this was a "Junior" from January 1930.  Then, the realization that this originally had a special finish called "japanning", and the tailstock and bed had already been stripped of it and painted, I was a bit sad.  However, manufacturing a few parts to be able to put the tailstock back together, and refinish the compound, and I'm almost done (it's only been a month).

There are a few things I'm in "need" of - this one didn't have any change gears with it.  I'd like to get a full set (doesn't have to be original, since the finish is already non-original).  I also need to use either the countershaft (which the previous owners had lost), or a variable DC motor.  The cone pulley on mine is for the v-belts.  If anyone has a good source for gears (Boston Gear doesn't have 16-tooth 16DP gears with the 5/8" bore that I think I will need).

I do need to know where the change gears should go.  Also, if any other "Junior" owners have a picture of the thread chart, I'll try making my own (I have no badges with this one).

Joe


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## kwoodhands (Dec 6, 2015)

silverhawk said:


> Hey, folks!
> 
> I'm new around here (obviously).  I recently found an old South Bend 9" lathe (in pieces) advertised in the local classifieds.  I'd wanted a good metal lathe (and had an old 1941 craftsman wood lathe that included a compound slide for "light" metal turning).  I saw the ad, and made him an offer.  The next thing I knew, I was taking home a South Bend.  I had no idea what I had - I knew I just wanted this thing.
> 
> ...



Joe, you know the diametrical pitch,16DP. You also need to know the pressure angle.There are two ,14-1/2°  and 20°,do a google search for the blow up of each type of gear.Today most gears are 20°. You cannot mix them in the same drive train.
Mike the shaft so you get the correct bore.Do you know the total amount of teeth ? 
Boston Gear most probably has what you need,might not be listed though on their website.Use the "contact" on their site and they can help you.Also if you go to Practical Machinist website and join their forum there are many sub forums including one large one devoted to South Bend machinery. Go their first,I am sure that several people can help you more than I.
Beware of one thing,DO NOT EVER MENTION CHINESE MADE TOOLS ON THIS SITE.Read the forum rules and you will understand .I wouldn't be surprised if you got the change gears,counter shaft,and manual if you don't have one from a single visit.Many of the machinists are professional,I'm a home shop machinist like most on this forum.

mike


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## 4GSR (Dec 6, 2015)

The South Bend Junior lathe has 16 pitch 14-1/2 deg pressure angle gearing.  The change gears come up once in a while on eBay.  Boston Gear I'm sure have the gears, but as you said, not with the correct bore.  You may have to put bushings in the gears purchased as needed.  I'm not positive on the bore, but something like 9/16" bore that is needed?  I maybe getting that mixed up with my 9" workshop South Bend lathe made later in life from yours.


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## silverhawk (Dec 6, 2015)

Mike, you are correct.  Mentioning Grizzly (even for the South Bend parts) on practical machinist will get you banned.  I'd put in a request for membership to that forum, but have yet to hear back on approval (it's been a week so far).  An old post there referred me to the Yahoo groups for the SBL Juniors, and Nelson Timken there referred me over here.  I've browsed here a few times, but with the referral, thought I'd better make it official.

Ken, I believe you are correct on the 16 pitch, though I am currently unsure of the 14.5 degree pressure angle.  That's the only pressure angle that shows on Boston Gear's website with the 5/8" bore (which is what the Juniors have, the 9/16 does indeed come with the later Workshop models from what I've been able to dig up).  I never did think of using bushings for larger gears, but the worry is the diametral pitch - the Juniors used a more common 16DP, and the Workshops used 18DP (not completely sure, but that's what I've found).

Perhaps I should order the standard gears from Boston, and watch for the odd sizes on eBay.

Do you guys know of anyone with pictures of a 22YB model badge or threading plate out there?


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## brino (Dec 7, 2015)

Hi Joe,

First, Welcome to the site!

Second, really you can get banned for just mentioning a foreign manufacturer on that other site? Wow! That's crazy.....I guess that kind of attitude is why I've quit going there.

Third have you checked these source for charts and other info:

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/resources/categories/south-bend.34/

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=1617&tab=3
(check both the "Publication Reprints" and "Photo Index" tabs)

http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/index.html

Good Luck in your quest!
-brino

btw, I'd really like to see some pictures!


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## silverhawk (Dec 7, 2015)

Here's a few pictures :









In the last picture, you'll probably note that the back gear handle has broken off - I'm working on repairing that.  It appears someone had used it without oiling it, so I am lining up a machinist to work on the spindle and spindle bushings for me.  I did find one gear with a missing tooth, I'm going to try my hand at brazing it on (my wife will probably kill me for using the oven to warm the whole part up) and filing it down to perfection.

With the previous owner trying to "restore" it and removing the original "japanning" finish, I thought I'd better just finish it off.  The above is what I got it with (and a box of odd parts).  One clamp I need help in identifying is an odd clamp with a prong sitting off of it, plus, on the saddle/cross slide, there are two holes that sit down into the ways.  I'm not sure what those are.  I'll post a picture of those when I get back to the lathe tonight.

I'm pretty excited about this beautiful thing!


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## 4GSR (Dec 7, 2015)

Joe,

South Bend was very good on supplying change gearing in 14-1/2 deg pressure angle on there lathes back then.  If you were set up with a mill and dividing head, you could make your own gears.  Just a thought.   I would watch esnach for a set of gears.  May pay $200-300 for a set, but that would come out cheaper than buying them from Boston Gear.

There's a guy out there, Steve Wells, that has a website devoted to South Bend lathe stuff.  Lots of information on his website.  There should be a picture of the change gear chart for your model of lathe there.   Look in the South Bend at top of the section of the forum foe links to his site.

Ken

Edit:

http://www.wewilliams.net/SBLibrary.htm


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## silverhawk (Dec 7, 2015)

I had seen one set in a month - and it was gone the next day.  I suppose I'll have to be faster on the draw, there.  Can anyone tell me what clamp part this goes to?  It's got "9-13F" cast into it.  It doesn't look like any of the parts documents from wswells' website (or the vintage machinery PDF's) :


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## 4GSR (Dec 8, 2015)

silverhawk said:


> .......  Can anyone tell me what clamp part this goes to?  It's got "9-13F" cast into it.  It doesn't look like any of the parts documents from wswells' website (or the vintage machinery PDF's) :



Just a wild guess, it maybe a hold down strap for the headstock.  The tab lets you hold it in place while you run the bolt into the headstock housing to bolt the headstock to the bed.


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## silverhawk (Dec 8, 2015)

Ken, I'm starting to think you are right.  In the parts diagram from 1935, it shows as part "13" for the headstock clamps (even if they don't look like this one).  I expect the "9-13F" is just a "special" headstock clamp for the 9", part #13.  Great pointer!


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## brino (Dec 10, 2015)

Hi Joe,

I was going thru some SouthBend files and found this November 1928 catalog. 
Page 4 shows the model 22-YB(code word "Bhorn"). $155 dollars back then!

That same page also shows a picture of the metal plate thread-cutting guide.
You gotta zoom way in to read the numbers, but they are visible!

I'll keep digging around for a parts diagram too.
I'll post back if I find one.
-brino


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## brino (Dec 10, 2015)

okay....interesting....I just found the "22-YB" (code word "Babig") in the 1933 catalog (page 6).
I had thought these "Catalog Numbers" would be unique for the different model years....NOT SO!

It also shows a threading chart and it might be more readable.
-brino


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## silverhawk (Dec 12, 2015)

Brino;

That is BEAUTIFUL!  I've downloaded the PDF and extracted that image.  My next step is to feed that through a trace into a vector drawing and clean it up, and then have someone cut it out on vinyl so I can then use that to etch into a brass plate.  Thanks for the pointer, that is a _perfect_ match to what I need!


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## silverhawk (Dec 12, 2015)

The closest I've been able to come on the parts diagram is the 9/10/13" partial parts catalog from around 1930 (not sure of actual year).  It has the parts laid out, and then an "assembled" drawing, and that might get me close enough.  I've got my back gears repaired, and the headstock painted.  I need to have the spindle cleaned up and the bushings done right, and then I can start putting the headstock back together and I'd be half way there!  You guys are awesome over here!


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## brino (Dec 12, 2015)

Joe,

This might be very similar to what you already have, but attached is a 1930 Repair Parts bulletin.
But the headstock clamp does NOT look like what you posted above.....

-brino


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## silverhawk (Dec 14, 2015)

The other thing to note is that this is not a completely "normal" lathe - it does not have the "cone" pulley that most had at the time.  It has a v-belt pulley on it - so either it was ordered that way, or someone modified it after the fact.  Did these things come with the v-belt pulleys we know so well today?


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## silverhawk (Dec 15, 2015)

Perfect, finally got a chance to run some numbers.  The stud gear is 1 and 1/8" diameter with 16 teeth :

diametral pitch = (number of teeth + 2) / diameter = (16 + 2) / 1.125 = 16DP

Matches!  (I just had to make sure.)  Now I can start playing on eBay for the gear pile!


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## silverhawk (Dec 18, 2015)

To top it all off, I ran the spindle over to my machinist neighbor today to have him clean it up.  He said not to worry about it unless there is play, and that it looked used, but in pretty good shape for something that old.  Now to find some new shims for the headstock, and I'm about ready to turn!


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