# Wandering MIG wire



## savarin (Oct 10, 2012)

Anyone any ideas what caused this?
Never seen it before and have gone through heaps of spools.
The wire upon exiting the tip wanders around by as much as 10mm in random directions.
It made controlling the bead almost impossible.
I replaced the tip but no improvement
It must have been the wire because a new spool behaved correctly.
And as is usually the case with these things it happened over a long holiday weekend so I couldnt get a replacement.


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## joe_m (Oct 10, 2012)

What I've learned about MIG welding could fit in a paper cup. What I remember wouldn't fill a thimble. Don't different types of wire require switching polarity? Is it possible you picked up a spool of something you hadn't been using in the past?


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## savarin (Oct 10, 2012)

same spools all along.


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## Ed. (Oct 11, 2012)

A possibilty (however I think it is unlikely) might be that it isn't sized right and the rollers are squashing/deforming the wire as it goes through the rollers, but you would have problems with the wire coming out of the tip if it was too large, if the wire was larger then it was supposed to be it would be deformed as it gets pressed into the grooves in the rollers, which are made for a certain size wire and unless the pressure on the rollers is reduced it will deform the wire which may cause it to wander. Put a long strip of it through the rollers making sure it doesn't touch anything earthed and examine it for deformations.

But as I said it would be unlikely, if you have a micrometer or a vernier I would measure both the new wire and the one that gave you problems to see what the variation is. If it is a brand name spool, then I would contact the manufacturer and talk to them about it.

The other thing I would have to ask is, is it actually the wire or the arc that is wondering? Reason being, that if the work being welded is magnetized for whatever reason or has a magnetic joint holder nearby, the magnetic field could push the arc around but not the wire itself.

Cheers

Ed.


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## 12bolts (Oct 11, 2012)

Same brand Charles?
Have a look with a magnifying glass. I'm wondering if there isnt a longitudanal score from manufacturing running the length of the wire. When they make the wire, it is basically drawn through a hole in a die of the correct diameter and extruded to shape. If there was a mark on the die it would transfer to the wire.
but what I know probably wouldnt even fill a tadpoles bladder...

Cheers Phil


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## Pontiac Freak (Oct 11, 2012)

Did it start happening when the spool was almost empty?  I have had similar problems with cheap brand wire at the end of the spool.


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## savarin (Oct 11, 2012)

I couldnt see any difference in the wire from new to old.
It started the wandering right from the start.
No magnetic material nearby.
Definitely the wire as if I let it squirt from the tip without welding you could see the wander, it was very pronounced.
I have used it all up as the base metal was thick enough that the extra wide bead still looked ok.
It was really weird watching it and a real pain to control the bead.


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## Rbeckett (Oct 11, 2012)

Mig wire takes what is called a cast.  That will make it wander it the tip and is more pronounced on harder wire.  To alleviate the issue I always use the 10 inch 10 or 33 pound spools.  The much larger diameter of the spool helps reduce the cast and makes the wire more controllable in the weld.  A good liner and tip will also go a long way to helping reduce the whipping around, but again no gaurantee it will remove excess cast from a tightly wound spool.  To mesure cast point the tip in a safe direction and allow the spool to run onto the ground and lay naturally.  Your cast diameter should be about 1 meter across, if it is less then you will have issues like you described.  I usually return a spool if it wont lay flat and have about a one meter across lay on the floor.  I also use the time that the spool is paying out to calibrate my IPM for that particular wire.  Hope this helps.
Bob


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## killdozerd11 (Oct 11, 2012)

What make and model of welding machine
What wire are you using what is the diameter
What gun and tip size 

Are you sure that your tip is the same size as your wire diameter .....How is your liner.....Your rollers are smooth for mig solid wire or knurled for flux core and only tight enough to feed the wire 

How much stick out beyond the tip are you using

Flux core self shield wire is DCEN but some are DCEP and those are dual shield flux core wires

Mig is DCEP

Magnetic wonder is called arc blow and stick welding is the only thing that is effected by arc blow and that is the arc it's self wondering or not going were you want it


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## savarin (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks for all the ideas guys but just to reiterate, I'm not trying to solve a problem as its never happened before in the last 30 years (thats a lot of welding) and I have used up the spool. I just wondered what may have caused it.
I have just moved to a 5Kg spool from a different manufacturer, again no problems with this spool.
I use gas shield copper coated steel wire 0.6mm with the correct sized tips.
I think that the idea that the wire was wound to tightly on the spool was probably the cause. Maybe it was the last one from the supply spool at the factory.
I'm awaiting a reply from the manufacturer regarding the batch number. I will post their reply.


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## Hagemann (Nov 8, 2012)

i always payout a couple feet of wire to see how much bend I'm working with. If there's a lot of curl it means that roll came from the end of the batch. Good manufacturers straighten the wiring to keep consistant. I've run straighteners on the machine to see if I could get better tip life. To biggest problem I find with tip life and wandering is if the gun cable is looped, the wire will cork screw, that and too tight on the rollers and it causes a fine line in the wire making the wire act like a reamer as it cork screws through the liner. Arch wander I find is also related to a poor ground. if your using the typical spring loaded clamp, thats your problem. The best is the screw clamp style. Here's a good test: weld at 20.0v for 15 minutes. the heat in your clamp is telling you something. The more heat the worst your grounding problem is. I've seen the clamp start to smoke from the heat. Go to a screw type clamp, problem solved.


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## NITROTRIP (Sep 2, 2013)

Hello all,
I know this is a old post, but I have 42yrs helmet time. Just my own Miller model 35 I picked up new in 1981 has had a little over 1100lbs 
of .035 ls-6 hard wire thru it. Plus my factory work. I have had the exact problem you described several times over the years.
Run about 4 feet of wire out of your gun, cut it off and clamp 1 end in a vice. Then pull the wire thru your fingers at a smooth but fast 
pace. Sometimes you will feel ripples in the wire spaced 1" to 2"s apart. It will cause the wire to snake from side to side and it makes 
your arc look like it is wandering. I have never had magnetic induction arc wander with spray transfer MIG like TIG welding.

 If you have this it will give you all kinds of feeding problems. We had 1 full pallet of .035 that was bad this way about 25yrs age from
a major brand name supplier. I have had this crop up now and then over the years with all brands. 
  Just another thing to check if you are having odd feed problems. As this one is a bad one.
I hope this helps someone sometime. And run the largest spool your machine will handle. Dramatically drops your cost per pound. 
Take Care,

Rick


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## DMS (Sep 2, 2013)

Maybe the wire was mis-labeled or was under size? Only other thing I can think of is maybe there was a kink in the cable that was bending the the wire? 

Never had this happen before. I've used a couple brands of solid wire, in both small and large spools..

I guess if it happens again, run the wire out about 20 or 30cm, and see how much it arcs. If it spins in a tight loop, then it's probably got a lot of "memory" in it.


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## NITROTRIP (Sep 3, 2013)

DMS said:


> Maybe the wire was mis-labeled or was under size? Only other thing I can think of is maybe there was a kink in the cable that was bending the the wire?
> 
> Never had this happen before. I've used a couple brands of solid wire, in both small and large spools..
> 
> I guess if it happens again, run the wire out about 20 or 30cm, and see how much it arcs. If it spins in a tight loop, then it's probably got a lot of "memory" in it.



The wire was not mis-labled or undersize. It was 1 full pallet of 44pound spools. 3 spools were put on 3 different machines from this pallet within a 1 1/2 hour period. All had 2 inch waves in the wire directly off the spool. Everyone that was checked from that lot# from the manufacture had the
same defect. You don't get coil memory with 35lb or 44lb spools. I have seen it with the small 1lb spools and yes if you don't have a good feed system you will get resistance in your liner. this is not that problem. When you pulled the wire out straight it was wavy. When it was bad it would not feed thru the liner. When it was not as bad it would come out the contactor tip and move side to side at the puddle. I have used about 4000lbs .035 hard wire
in the last 34yrs and have seen this 4 times. It is a very rare problem and I think that is what the original poster had problems with by his description.
 Each time I have seen it was with a different manufacture. 

It is very rare, and I am passing it on as I have never seen anyone mention it even on the industrial welding sites. The one time I did I had guy's
with factory experience say yah come to think of it back in 84 or 91 we had a couple spools that were like that, couldn't keep the wire over the
puddle and had more spatter. I would bet it is more common with the cheep 1 to 5lb spools, but who do you know that really checks the wire
as it comes off the spool before it goes in the machine? That is this problem.

Take Care,

Rick


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