# Pencil Grinder Recommendation?



## ACHiPo (Aug 5, 2020)

I have a cheap Dremel knock-off set that is underpowered, slow, and frustrating to use.  I've thought about replacing it with a Foredom tool.  Of course once the decision was made that I need something better, down the rabbit hole I went.  I'm now thinking an air pencil grinder might be a good addition.  The question is which one.  There are the HF, etc. imports for $20-$30, or at the $150 price point there are presumably better quality grinders from names I don't really recognize.  The "industrial" models seem to be in the $400 range from names like Dynabrade and Dotco.  The industrial units are similar price to a Foredom, but I'm wondering if I could be happy with a less expensive one.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of independent information/reviews out there, so I'm soliciting input. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## darkzero (Aug 5, 2020)

What is your intended use? For detail work or mounted in the lathe for a makeshift tool post grinder? If the later I wouldn't recommend a pencil grinder but it should work. A full size electric die grinder would be better for that. I bought a HF pencil air grinder & mounted it in a boring bar holder. But I've never actually tried it & I scored two Dumore TP grinders.

For detail work the HF one is ok, you definitely get what you pay for though. I can stall it plus I don't like having to use air & oil with it. I definitely would not buy it again. I've got a Dremel flex shaft from the 90s that works ok, overheats if you flex the shaft too much for long periods of time. Works good but it's a Dremel & only for quick work. Can't go wrong with a Foredom.


----------



## mikey (Aug 5, 2020)

For general use that a Dremel is good for, a Foredom is a better choice. It's like a Dremel on steroids. If you need high speed, a pencil grinder works well. They don't have a lot of torque, though. I use Foredoms and have several hand pieces with different chucks for flexibility.


----------



## ACHiPo (Aug 5, 2020)

Will,
I use the rotary tool about once a month for various hand-held detail tasks--grinding, buffing, cutting.  One of my considerations for getting a better unit is the potential for more precise work.  I haven't had the capability, so I don't know if I'd use it or not.

When I mentioned Foredom I was thinking the hanging motor with separate handpieces.  I didn't realize the RPM was so slow--"only" about 18k RPM vs >50k for the air grinders.  Not sure whether this is an issue?  (I think my Dremel knock off is ~50k RPM top speed)  I've read somewhere that the higher RPM helps make the bit more controllable.  I discovered that Foredom actually sells a "super Dremel-type" grinder for about 6X what a Dremel kit goes for.

Thanks.


----------



## benmychree (Aug 5, 2020)

Air powered pencil grinders use quite a bit of air, I have found, I have a couple of Dotco units, had no idea what they may have cost, even the nearly 50 years ago that they were made.


----------



## Grandpop (Aug 5, 2020)

I have an old Foredom flex shaft with foot pedal, a 15,000 rpm electric Royobi (dremel), a 60,000 rpm TTC air pencil grinder, and a 100,000 Dotco air grinder. Bought them in that order too. Now that I have them all, I mostly use the Dotco and Roybi. Never was able to use the Foredom for grinding, but it is a very good polisher. The TTC collet and wrenches are dead soft, and tool had no power.

Every tool & die shop I ever worked in had a Dotco 10R9000 (100,000 rpm) air grinder. With a grinding wheel it is very controlled, with a carbide burr it cuts fast. About $700 new, and typically $200-300 on fleabay. Looked for a deal for long time after deciding I was going to buy one. Finally, after waiting 6 months I got a decent one of fleabay for $125.

I only have a 2hp compressor, and after 2 minutes with the Dotco I do have to wait for it to refill. The TTC uses more air, as my compressor kicks on faster. Never use the TTC now.


----------



## Technical Ted (Aug 6, 2020)

I picked up a Dumore hand grinder similar to this one on eBay for a little over $100. It was like new. Powerful and runs very smoothly.

Ted


----------



## C-Bag (Aug 6, 2020)

I’ve had a Dremel since high school and found the low power frustrating. A friend suggested Foredom and I’d never heard of it. Found out they are a crazy deep rabbit hole. There is all kinds of different amperage with the cheaper ones not that much stronger than Dremel. Tried pencil grinders and wasn't for me. After much virtual vulturing on eBay I got an old heavy duty one in great shape and bout a couple of different heads for it and am very happy with it. Very solid versatile grinder, sander polisher. Mostly I use the little angle grinder head that you have to use at lower rpm.


----------



## Ken from ontario (Aug 6, 2020)

C-Bag said:


> I’ve had a Dremel since high school and found the low power frustrating. A friend suggested Foredom and I’d never heard of it.* Found out they are a crazy deep rabbit hole. There is all kinds of different amperage with the cheaper ones not that much stronger than Dremel.* Tried pencil grinders and wasn't for me. After much virtual vulturing on eBay I got an old heavy duty one in great shape and bout a couple of different heads for it and am very happy with it. Very solid versatile grinder, sander polisher. Mostly I use the little angle grinder head that you have to use at lower rpm.


I almost fell for that also, always wanted a more powerful Foredom, noticed there are some models for under $200 and some for close to $500 or more, I soon discovered what I was looking for was one of the more expensive models . I'm still looking for a deal.
So far my Dremel has been more reliable than I thought it would be .


----------



## C-Bag (Aug 6, 2020)

Yup, the high power ones are the expensive ones. Took a while to understand what I was looking at and wanted. One finally came up and i wish I’d had one years ago. I needed something to do detail weld grinding and the Foredom was ticket. I know custom jewelers use them probably because they don’t need a compressor. The cable is not all that fun but being able to easily change attachments is wonderful.


----------



## Ken from ontario (Aug 6, 2020)

I just checked the TX model on Amazon and got a shock at the price, it doesn't even come with the handpiece, at least I now know eBay is a better source for a used one.


----------



## C-Bag (Aug 6, 2020)

I’m a cheap skate and used in good condition is my preferred way to go. I think mine was just the foot pedal and shaft for $80 w/shipping. Just like all us machinists know the accessories is where you get into the $$. But I believe the new ones are made overseas or somebody is selling knockoffs. My old one works perfect.


----------



## JimDawson (Aug 6, 2020)

I have a HF air pencil grinder that has given me pretty good service.  Have run it hours at a time using it as a high speed spindle in my mill.


----------



## kd4gij (Aug 6, 2020)

I have one of these. not bad for the price.









						1/4 HP 5/32 in. Grinder/Carver Rotary Tool with Flexible Shaft and Foot Pedal
					

Amazing deals on this Flexible Shaft Grinder/Carver at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.




					www.harborfreight.com


----------



## ACHiPo (Aug 7, 2020)

That Dotco looks pretty sweet.  From a video I saw it seems reasonably quiet as well.  Air consumption is a question--I'd think it would be quite a hog, but one thing I found suggested 1.5 CFM in 15 sec, but I'm not sure what that really means--6 cfm?


----------



## ACHiPo (Aug 7, 2020)

Technical Ted said:


> I picked up a Dumore hand grinder similar to this one on eBay for a little over $100. It was like new. Powerful and runs very smoothly.
> 
> Ted
> 
> View attachment 332689


Ted,
Haven't seen this one before.  Will need to investigate.
Evan


----------



## ACHiPo (Aug 7, 2020)

After quite a bit of research I'm leaning toward the Dremel 4300.  I've decided against an air pencil--too loud and not enough compressor to run one.  Looked at Proxxon, and that seems to be quiet and precise with a 0.001" TIR spec (the only TIR spec I've found), but half the current of the Dremel.

Will look for a Dumore and try to find more info on the Dotco (I found a used one for $175), as it's hard to imagine my 4.2CFM compressor able to keep up.

If cost was no object I'd spring for a Foredom brushless micromotor.  At $1k, however, I think I'll go for a Dremel since I only use it a few times per month.


----------



## Diecutter (Aug 8, 2020)

kd4gij said:


> I have one of these. not bad for the price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I also have this model and it has served me well.


----------



## kd4gij (Aug 8, 2020)

I use the m12 rotary tool most of the time these days


----------



## Weldingrod1 (Aug 8, 2020)

I have the HF dedicated to a tool holder. I use it for cutting higbees, funny tasks on the lathe where I need a rotary, and sometimes as a non-ferrous cut off tool.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## ACHiPo (Aug 8, 2020)

Just looked up the Dumore.  Holy crap--$2800 for the 33k RPM kit!


----------



## Technical Ted (Aug 8, 2020)

I think you'll find some models that are less expensive. Check out eBay for deals.

I'd have to check and see the part number for mine, but it looks like the one here, including the case and stones:









						Tool Post Grinder 858-0068
					

Tool Post Grinder




					www.govets.com
				




Maybe I got really lucky, but I got mine on eBay for around $100 and it was like new. Had one stone that looked like it had been used.

In this post, you can see me using it as a quick setup tool post grinder in my lathe. I have a really nice TP grinder, but for quick jobs this is faster, easier and for some things just plain works better!









						My Jeroen Jonkman’s Stirling 60 brass Stirling engine build
					

After building my first model (a simple, single action wobbler) I started searching on-line for my next build. When I came across the beautiful brass Stirling engine designed by Jeroen Jonkman, and found out that he had posted free plans for it, I knew I had found it.  So, I converted the...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




Ted


----------



## Ken from ontario (Aug 9, 2020)

kd4gij said:


> I use the m12 rotary tool most of the time these days
> 
> View attachment 333062


I had no idea that Milwaukee M12 grinder even existed, it looks so versatile, what is the power or vibration at high speed like? they are not that expensive either, HD Canada sells them for $70 . Is there any negative comments ?


----------



## Watchwatch (Aug 9, 2020)

Ken from ontario said:


> I had no idea that Milwaukee M12 grinder even existed, it looks so versatile, what is the power or vibration at high speed like? they are not that expensive either, HD Canada sells them for $70 . Is there any negative comments ?




I’ve been happy with mine. They can get hot pretty quick under heavy loads.

It’s a no brainer if you are already have M12 tools.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hman (Aug 10, 2020)

I have one of the M12 grinders, as well as several Dremels.  

M12 advantages -
No cord!
Good power, variable speed
Takes the same tooling/bits as the Dremel
Stands on end

M12 disadvantages -
Larger and clunkier than a Dremel - you can't hold it like a pencil, so very fine work can be a challenge


----------



## petertha (Aug 16, 2020)

I'm a long time Dremel guy & work them hard. Because I have other Milwaukee M12 tools, so batteries & chargers on hand I decided to try the cordless grinder. Its a decently solid unit & reasonably priced. My Dremel cordless speed control is a bit iffy in the low range, its not as progressive as the Milwaukee. I rarely use the top rpm because most of the time you are burning something & I personally dont think the bearings are up to the task in any of these. The Dremel accessories fit the Milwaukee (thread). A useful one to get is the chuck because shank sizes vary a lot & swapping collets is kind of PITA. Some of the clone chucks are garbage so beware (lots of runout & iffy jaws). Anyways I'd by another Milwaukee. I think their tools are great value. It is a bit heavier & taller than Dremel.


----------



## Ken from ontario (Aug 16, 2020)

petertha said:


> I'm a long time Dremel guy & work them hard. Because I have other Milwaukee M12 tools, so batteries & chargers on hand I decided to try the cordless grinder. Its a decently solid unit & reasonably priced. My Dremel cordless speed control is a bit iffy in the low range, its not as progressive as the Milwaukee. I rarely use the top rpm because most of the time you are burning something & I personally dont think the bearings are up to the task in any of these. The Dremel accessories fit the Milwaukee (thread). A useful one to get is the chuck because shank sizes vary a lot & swapping collets is kind of PITA. Some of the clone chucks are garbage so beware (lots of runout & iffy jaws). Anyways I'd by another Milwaukee. I think their tools are great value. It is a bit heavier & taller than Dremel.


Do you also own or use a flex shaft rotary tool? if so what do you think of this Foredom SR flexshaft machine? it a copy of the USA made Foredom but at half the price: I am actually looking for a decent price on the real US ones but the price is tempting:









						75.9US $ 34% OFF|Sr Flexshaft Machine,dental Polishing Motor,flexible Shaft Machine,watch Engraving Burnishing Grinding Rotary Tool Kit - Jewelry Tools & Equipments - AliExpress
					

Smarter Shopping, Better Living!  Aliexpress.com




					www.aliexpress.com


----------



## petertha (Aug 16, 2020)

No I don't own a flex shaft. But I have been checking out different models. I saw some Foredom's in action at a demo wood carving class once that was going on. I was impressed with what they were doing.. or maybe what they were not doing - bogging down with deeper cuts using carbide burrs. Seemed like lots of control & lighter weight, although the motor has to be kind of situated a certain way. Not quite as simple as pull the cordless unit out. 

You guys are right, it is a rabbit hole. Lots of different kinds of flex shaft, speed control, motor options, collet systems...




__





						Jewellery Supplies and Equipment.
					





					www.gessweincanada.com
				




I've seen that clone you have referred to (or ones like it). You just know they have cut corners somewhere. The question is where & would one notice it & to what degree.


----------



## petertha (Aug 30, 2020)

I found these videos kind of interesting. Shows some alternative non-flex shaft rotary tools. Wallet alert! And I believe there are low price 'clones' of those too, so the field of choices, pros & cons can get a bit deeper. 

Second video you can the Foredom in action by comparison. I know from experience I could not hog material like that with my Dremel. The Foredom is lower max rpm but I suspect its electric motor thing - its more about what kind of torque can it deliver at that rpm. I suspect the Dremel motor winding result sin them being kind of anemic at lower rpm, the power is more at higher rpms. But you may or may not want to be operating at higher rpms for whatever reason. Maybe that's what the (first vid) variable rpm digital 'boxes' are about - optimizing torque with rpm kind of like a VFD in principle? I really don't know. I think they are for serious carvers & generally looks like the collet range is quite limited to the smaller shanks. One thing we didn't discuss on Foredom is they can handle 1/4" shank tools (with the correct hand piece/collet) & they visually seem to have the power to use them. So depending on the work, that is a plus. Third vid.  They can integrate reciprocating chisel action carving hand piece accessory which is interesting. Not up my alley but cool how they convert rotation to stroke and it kind of senses the natural push action


----------



## ACHiPo (Aug 30, 2020)

petertha said:


> I found these videos kind of interesting. Shows some alternative non-flex shaft rotary tools. Wallet alert! And I believe there are low price 'clones' of those too, so the field of choices, pros & cons can get a bit deeper.
> 
> Second video you can the Foredom in action by comparison. I know from experience I could not hog material like that with my Dremel. The Foredom is lower max rpm but I suspect its electric motor thing - its more about what kind of torque can it deliver at that rpm. I suspect the Dremel motor winding result sin them being kind of anemic at lower rpm, the power is more at higher rpms. But you may or may not want to be operating at higher rpms for whatever reason. Maybe that's what the (first vid) variable rpm digital 'boxes' are about - optimizing torque with rpm kind of like a VFD in principle? I really don't know. I think they are for serious carvers & generally looks like the collet range is quite limited to the smaller shanks. One thing we didn't discuss on Foredom is they can handle 1/4" shank tools (with the correct hand piece/collet) & they visually seem to have the power to use them. So depending on the work, that is a plus. Third vid.  They can integrate reciprocating chisel action carving hand piece accessory which is interesting. Not up my alley but cool how they convert rotation to stroke and it kind of senses the natural push action


Yeah those micromotors are the bomb-diggety, but get expensive fast, especially the Foredom models.  I have a Dremel 4300 coming.  I think it will meet my needs pretty well.

You're right about the Foredom shaft motors--much higher torque, lower RPM, great for hogging out wood with aggressive bits.  The micromotors are more for jewelry and finer finishing, I think.


----------



## Ken from ontario (Aug 30, 2020)

I did order a clone of Foredom SR , got it awhile ago and so far I like everything about it, can't really compare it to the real Foredom SR but it does run smoothly and has more than enough torque, the handpiece that came with it handles 3/32" - 1/4" shank.
The handpiece in the second video  (#44T) also can handle all  shank sizes ,the collet set for it is sold separately. it is most likely one of the most popular handpiece Foredom offers.


----------



## kd4gij (Sep 7, 2020)

I saw this at Walmart today, looks interesting and price isn't bad





__





						Robot or human?
					





					www.walmart.com


----------



## hman (Sep 7, 2020)

Do you already have one of their lithium ion batteries?


----------



## sycle1 (Sep 7, 2020)

I bought a Foredom to Replace my sixth burnt out Dremel. 
Just got over the Dremels crapping out not being able to handle the heavier workload.
Couldn't be happier with the Foredom, power to burn and it just grinds away wood, plastic, metal etc. I would buy another one, if I ever needed too. Still use Dremels for light stuff  but the Foredom is the Worker. ( I bet Foredom are real happy about that Aliexpress knock off model for $79)


----------

