# Headed to Precision Machine's (Matt's) Warehouse in the morning



## wvnitroman (May 9, 2018)

Headed to Matt's in the morning to look at some machines, I think I've narrowed it down the these:

Mills:
PM835S and the PM935 TV or S. My biggest struggle with these is the $2,000 price gap.
Some of the Bench Top model specs look pretty nice but I've never used a bench top in my life. What are the big differences in the knee mill and the bench top as far as usefulness goes?

Lathes: 
PM1440GS and the PM 1440BV
Any thoughts or pointers is appreciated.

Thanks and God Bless,
Kevin


----------



## ddickey (May 9, 2018)

Look at the 1440HD


----------



## T Bredehoft (May 9, 2018)

Bench top vs Bridgeport type? Just scale down your expectations. don't expect to  use a 4" face mill or a 3/4 end mill. I generally use a 5/16 four flute TiN coated HSS end mill. I got a bargain on half a dozen of them a couple of years ago, that'st all I use for 'heavy' work.


----------



## dlane (May 9, 2018)

You bringing a truck and trailer .


----------



## wvnitroman (May 9, 2018)

T Bredehoft said:


> Bench top vs Bridgeport type? Just scale down your expectations. don't expect to  use a 4" face mill or a 3/4 end mill. I generally use a 5/16 four flute TiN coated HSS end mill. I got a bargain on half a dozen of them a couple of years ago, that'st all I use for 'heavy' work.


Thanks for the input. I'll definitely  pass on the bench top then!!!


----------



## wvnitroman (May 9, 2018)

dlane said:


> You bringing a truck and trailer .


Not tomorrow. I'll figure out what I want then make another trip to get them. They are only about 100 miles from me.


----------



## wvnitroman (May 9, 2018)

ddickey said:


> Look at the 1440HD


I looked at the 1440HD but it is out of my price range.


----------



## wvnitroman (May 9, 2018)

T Bredehoft said:


> Bench top vs Bridgeport type? Just scale down your expectations. don't expect to  use a 4" face mill or a 3/4 end mill. I generally use a 5/16 four flute TiN coated HSS end mill. I got a bargain on half a dozen of them a couple of years ago, that'st all I use for 'heavy' work.


That seals the deal for me, a knee mill it will be.


----------



## coffmajt (May 9, 2018)

You will also get a lot more rigid machine with larger table and more vertical between bottom of spindle and table with table in lowest position --


----------



## RIMSPOKE (May 10, 2018)

I USE BRIDGEPORTs AT WORK BUT JUST DON'T HAVE THE SPACE FOR ONE AT HOME .

I BOUGHT A PRECISION MATTHEWS PM-833T TABLE MILL AND MOUNTED IT ON A 33" VIDMAR CABINET .
SO FAR IT HAS BEEN A GOOD MILL AND IS FAR STOUTER THAN SOME PREVIOUS POSTINGS WOULD IMPLY .

THE CABINET STORES THE TOOLING FOR THE MACHINE SO THE WHOLE SETUP HAS A RELATIVELY SMALL FOOTPRINT .
THE MILL HAS NO TROUBLE WITH ENDMILLS AS LARGE AS AN INCH . I USE THEM UP TO 2" BUT ONLY WITH LIGHT CUTS .
IT CAN PUSH AN INCH DRILL AND EVEN LARGE HOLE SAWS IN THE LOWER GEARS .

WILL IT KEEP TIME WITH A KNEE MILL ? IN SOME WAYS YES & IN OTHERS NO .
THE KNEE MILL HAS A RAM THAT CAN BE RUN IN & OUT THE TABLE MILL HAS A MUCH MORE LIMITED WORK ENVELOPE .

THE KNEE MILL ALSO CAN SWIVEL IT's ENTIRE DRIVE MECHANISM AND THE HEAD CAN BE TILTED UP & DOWN  .
THE TABLE MILL CAN JUST BE TILTED FROM SIDE TO SIDE .

ANOTHER DIFFERENCE IS YOU CAN SEE A DIFFERENCE IN THE FINISH , THE KNEE MILL BEING BETTER .
I CAN OVERCOME THIS WITH USING THE HIGH SPIRAL END MILLS BUT THEY ARE PRICY BY COMPARISON .

JUST MY 2¢  ON THE TOPIC SINCE I RUN BOTH KINDS EVERY DAY .
I LIKE THEM BOTH AND AM QUITE FOND OF MY TABLE MILL FOR IT's ABILITY TO DO FINE WORK
IN A CONFINED SPACE .


----------



## markba633csi (May 10, 2018)

Adds up quick doesn't it?


----------



## wvnitroman (May 11, 2018)

I had in my mind to get one of the PM 1440's that was built in China. Matt encouraged me to check out a Taiwan lathe that was uncrated. There was absolutely no comparison. The feeds on the Taiwan lathe felt smooth as glass, the Chinese one felt like they had sand in them. I didn't hear them run but Matt said the Taiwan machines are also much quieter and smoother running. My wife is handy but has never touched any kind of machining equipment (she is a wood worker) and she too was amazed how much nicer and smoother the Taiwan machine was. Please, if you already have a Chinese machine enjoy it. I am in  no way cutting on the Chinese machines just simply posting my .02 cents worth. Looks like I'm buying a Taiwan lathe.


----------



## jdedmon91 (May 11, 2018)

RIMSPOKE said:


> I USE BRIDGEPORTs AT WORK BUT JUST DON'T HAVE THE SPACE FOR ONE AT HOME .
> 
> I BOUGHT A PRECISION MATTHEWS PM-833T TABLE MILL AND MOUNTED IT ON A 33" VIDMAR CABINET .
> SO FAR IT HAS BEEN A GOOD MILL AND IS FAR STOUTER THAN SOME PREVIOUS POSTINGS WOULD IMPLY .
> ...



I had a bench top PM 25. Granted it was smaller than the one you purchased. I wanted a bigger mill and seriously looked at the mill you purchased. But when I did the math I could buy a Bridgeport type for the same cash. I shoehorned a Lagun in my shop and after adding the DRO and X axis table feed still had a great mill for under 5 k verses 4500 for the largest bench mill. I couldn’t be happier with my decision. Too bad I don’t have the room or able to find a lightly used 12 to 15 inch lathe. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## markba633csi (May 11, 2018)

Funny how made in Taiwan is now considered good, and even collectable


----------



## .LMS. (May 11, 2018)

markba633csi said:


> Funny how made in Taiwan is now considered good, and even collectable



Yea - us oldsters remember when it was a joke.


----------



## ddickey (May 11, 2018)

If I remember correctly there was a time made in Japan was cheaply made too.


----------



## Ray C (May 11, 2018)

ddickey said:


> If I remember correctly there was a time made in Japan was cheaply made too.



Absolutely... That carried on for a long time.  Seiko wristwatches and Toyota vehicles are what made the turning point.

Ray


----------



## markba633csi (May 12, 2018)

I remember when little tin cricket toys from Japan were stamped out of Planter's peanut cans- the artwork was visible on the undersides LOL
we're talking late 50s early 60s


----------



## Bob Korves (May 12, 2018)

I was using an old Globemaster pry bar yesterday, made in Japan.  I remember when Globemaster was considered the worst tools in the world.  Looking at it carefully, it is a very nicely made tool of high quality tool steel, and obviously properly heat treated, no bends or breaks.  The prying portion is thin and wide and has an internally cut nail head puller.  The other end is bent sideways to the right with a short and thin pulling fork.  The tool has had plenty of use and abuse (I am not the original owner), but is still functionally like new after more than 50 years.  First it was Japan being dissed, then Taiwan, then Korea, now China, trending toward India and some others.  The only thing that stays the same is that we value well made older tools, but would not likely buy them en masse at the prices they would need to be sold for today.  We vote with our wallets, and the best sellers win.


----------



## markba633csi (May 12, 2018)

I think also, some individual tools are just better because the factory was having a good month and all the processes were working well


----------



## .LMS. (May 12, 2018)

wvnitroman said:


> I didn't hear them run but Matt said the Taiwan machines are also much quieter and smoother running



So, bringing this thread back to the original topic....

Does this mean you can't see any lathes under power if you pay Matt a visit?


----------



## wvnitroman (May 13, 2018)

.LMS. said:


> So, bringing this thread back to the original topic....
> 
> Does this mean you can't see any lathes under power if you pay Matt a visit?


I could not while I was there but they are in the process of moving to a bigger location so that may change


----------



## darkzero (May 13, 2018)

Ray C said:


> Absolutely... That carried on for a long time.  Seiko wristwatches and Toyota vehicles are what made the turning point.
> 
> Ray



Both of which I am very happy to own.


----------



## Ray C (May 14, 2018)

.LMS. said:


> So, bringing this thread back to the original topic....
> 
> Does this mean you can't see any lathes under power if you pay Matt a visit?



Maybe...   He's moving his warehouse across town because he found a larger place with the same rent.   At the current location, it's very cramped and only has enough room to setup 2-3 machines at a time.  They can power-up whatever happens to be uncrated.    I do not know his plans for the new place and if he'll have a display area or not.  Both places are just large warehouses.

If you need to see something specific, give him a call first.

Ray


----------



## MarkM (May 16, 2018)

Rimspoke I wonder if the finish is a result of the pulse of the single phase motor vs. Three phase.  Worked on machines with both and seem to have better results with the three phase motor.  Probably not really a whole lot of difference.


----------

