# "proper" Way To Store Drills In An Index (?)



## BGHansen

A tool maker named "Wally" (Bob Waller) picked up a Harbor Freight 29 pc. fractional drill set that was setting on my desk.  He looked at the drills, looked at me, dumped them in the trash and left with my index.  He came back with the index full of cryo bits.  I asked why he put them in the index up side down.  Wally always put drill bits in the index with the shank end up for a couple of reasons.  First, if you burr up the shank by spinning a bit in the chuck, it still goes back in the index.  Second, your fingers aren't on the sharp/hot end of the bit.  Guess I hadn't put too much thought into it at the time, but his logic makes sense.  That's how I store them now.  How about you guys?

Bruce


----------



## joshua43214

shank down so I don't have to fight the flute putting my drills away.
If there is a burr, it needs to be stoned off. Putting away a drill with a burr is just asking for a problem later.

P.S. tell your buddy not to cook his drills and he won't burn his fingers on them anymore...


----------



## dlane

Shank down for me , don't want the tips bouncing around
Did you pull the HF bits out of the trash


----------



## David S

Shank down on all my indexes.  If it won't go back in due it a burr I immediately remove the burr.

David


----------



## ch2co

Sounds interesting, never seen it done before, but if I have a burr on the shank of one of my drills, I'd want to know and fix it before redepositing it in the index.

CHuck the grumpy old guy


----------



## Fabrickator

Shank down, same reasons as previously stated.  I would have left the HF bits in the trash... or save them for your grandchild to destroy some 2 X 4' blocks.


----------



## middle.road

I'll have to go with 'shank up' as Wally suggested. All the gents that I've ever been around did the same.
As it was explained to me, removing a bit by the cutting end is like grabbing a knife edge first.


----------



## cvairwerks

I don't keep mine in an index. I've got a carpet lined drawer in the tool box for the single bits. The ones that I use a lot of, go back into their bulk envelopes until they are dull. Reamers go back into their storage tubes.


----------



## TOOLMASTER

flutes down..had a guy tell me it would mess up the point...if your index is harder than your drill bits you have other problems


----------



## Cavediver

If I send you an index full of HF bits, do you think he'd do it again?


Shank down for me.  No real reason, I suppose I just left them as they were when I opened the package.


----------



## BGHansen

dlane said:


> Shank down for me , don't want the tips bouncing around
> Did you pull the HF bits out of the trash


I did!  They weren't too bad for a rough hole.


----------



## Downwindtracker2

You should have left them in the trash. Poor drills  cause more frustration than the next culprit by 100X.


----------



## T Bredehoft

Bit down, no reason, just habit, I guess


----------



## great white

I've always stored them flutes down.

Dunno where I picked that up. Guess it just makes sense to me.....


----------



## kvt

flutes up, just because the came that way I guess.   I also would have pulled them out of the trash,  Good for various thing,   like wood, cleaning holes, etc.


----------



## Mark in Indiana

Flutes up until a burr developes on the shank.


----------



## toolroom

Been doin' that since 1978 when I started my Washington State Apprenticeship Program. An O'le Sweede told me that, an' I been doin' it ever since. OMG, that's been 46 years?
Yowza


----------



## John Hasler

Mark in Indiana said:


> Flutes up until a burr developes on the shank.


And then remove the burr and put the bit in flutes up.


----------



## Ulma Doctor

flutes up, remove burrs before redepositing.


----------



## JimDawson

You guys mean that you're not supposed to pull the drill bits out of that box thingy, use them, then just throw them on the work bench where you can get to them easy???


----------



## Grandpop

I've always kept mine flutes up. Recently recieved the sets that were my FILs (also ex tool &die), and he kept his shank up. out of tespect, I keep his that way. My dad (another tool & die) taught me flutes up, a nd everyone i ever worked with did same. Recently noticed that several seem to be doing shanks up. To each their own?


----------



## Techie1961

Flutes up like they were when new. If the point is down, the margin's edges might loosen up the index's holes and damage the index. I've never seen a drill so sharp that it would cut my finger.


----------



## Chippy

Threw the index boxes in the garbage and replace them with Hout bit dispenser cabinets.


----------



## David VanNorman

Whats the big deal they go in shank up.


----------



## BGHansen

Cavediver said:


> If I send you an index full of HF bits, do you think he'd do it again?
> 
> 
> Shank down for me.  No real reason, I suppose I just left them as they were when I opened the package.


Good thought!  I asked him about that at the time and just got "the look".  The transaction occurred about 20 years ago at a GM plant in Lansing, MI. 

As an aside, I was in the tool room reviewing a job when a scooter backed into a Vidmar with fractional, number and letter drill bits in it.  Knocked the cabinet over and mixed up the drills.  They gave the sorting job to an apprentice who tired of the task and dumped about 3 coffee cans full of new HSS bits in the trash.  I retrieved most of them and spent many an evening with index gauges and mics sorting drill bits.  Never had to think about buying another HF drill set!

Bruce


----------



## randyjaco

I have always done shank to indicate a drill  bit to be sharpened later. 
Randy


----------



## Grumpy Gator

_ This thread reminds me of a conversation I had with my SWMBO. I had replaced the toilet paper in the bathroom. She informed me I had done it wrong. I told her "I used the last roll up and replaced it." She told me I had put it on upside down. "It should feed off the top not the bottom." _
_ My reply was " As long as there was paper there when I needed to use it , it didn't matter to me."_
_ Same goes for drill bits as long as they get put back in the index I don't care witch way they go in. I always mic them and touch up the flutes as needed before I drill the hole._
_ *************Just Saying***********G***************
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
********_


----------



## kwoodhands

BGHansen said:


> A tool maker named "Wally" (Bob Waller) picked up a Harbor Freight 29 pc. fractional drill set that was setting on my desk.  He looked at the drills, looked at me, dumped them in the trash and left with my index.  He came back with the index full of cryo bits.  I asked why he put them in the index up side down.  Wally always put drill bits in the index with the shank end up for a couple of reasons.  First, if you burr up the shank by spinning a bit in the chuck, it still goes back in the index.  Second, your fingers aren't on the sharp/hot end of the bit.  Guess I hadn't put too much thought into it at the time, but his logic makes sense.  That's how I store them now.  How about you guys?
> 
> Bruce
> 
> View attachment 120374



cutting edge down ,for the same reason as "wally"
mike


----------



## rick9345

Stored where I can't find the one I need!


----------



## Frank Ford

When I use a drill bit, I like to return it to the index holder "face down." That way, I can easily identify the unused, sharp bits which have the sharp edges up.




And, I agree, used bits can have burs that make it hard to stick 'em back flutes up.


----------



## bearbon

Yes, that's me. Toss the drills on the bench. Can't stop - in a hurry. I'll sort them out later. When I do put them back in the index its sharp end up so I can inspect them when I do a drill sharpening day - except the ones that were lost.


----------



## middle.road

Good quality full polished bits and brad point style bits are sharp enough to get you.
Black oxide, partially ground ones - not so much. 
I was staring at my 'used' drill bit collection today thinking that I either have to learn how to sharpen them
or put a drill bit sharpener on my wish list.


----------



## onetrack

One has to ask? - why do they come from the factory, flutes up? Gotta be a reason, surely? 

There's two things that bug me more, than the "flutes up/flutes down" question.

1. Why do drill manufacturers insist on engraving sizes on drills with such minimal-depth engraving, that the size is difficult to see - and the size engravure disappears with the first half-spin of a drill in the chuck!
Surely they can install size engraving with a little more depth and clarity without compromising shank strength?
After all, the flutes take out half of the shank thickness, anyway - what damage would a little more engraving depth do to a shank?

2. Why does Huot insist on manufacturing drill boxes with the lid hinge on the right, and the largest drills to the front, and the smallest drills to the rear??

My fine set of Huot cobalt drills constantly annoys me whenever I open the box. The reason being, down here in the underworld, our locally-produced drill sets have the box lid hinge on the left and the smaller drills at the front, with the larger drills at the rear. This seems like a logical layout to me. 
But anytime I go to open my Huot drill box, it's like jumping into my car and finding the steering wheel has moved to the other side!! 

Do all you guys in the upper world run everything back to front?? I mean to say - your steering wheels are on the left, you drive on the right, you change gears with your right hand - and you open your drill boxes from the wrong side! 
Do all your lathes have the chuck on the right, and you run your saddle from left to right, as well??


----------



## TDHofstetter

Shank up for frequently used bits, shank down for bits I seldom reach for. That makes life easier when I reach into the index - it's really easy to spot which bits are which without squwunching up my eyes to read that tiny embossing in the box.


----------



## Artemetra

onetrack said:


> One has to ask? - why do they come from the factory, flutes up? Gotta be a reason, surely?
> 
> There's two things that bug me more, than the "flutes up/flutes down" question.
> 
> 1. Why do drill manufacturers insist on engraving sizes on drills with such minimal-depth engraving, that the size is difficult to see - and the size engravure disappears with the first half-spin of a drill in the chuck!
> Surely they can install size engraving with a little more depth and clarity without compromising shank strength?
> After all, the flutes take out half of the shank thickness, anyway - what damage would a little more engraving depth do to a shank?
> 
> 2. Why does Huot insist on manufacturing drill boxes with the lid hinge on the right, and the largest drills to the front, and the smallest drills to the rear??
> 
> My fine set of Huot cobalt drills constantly annoys me whenever I open the box. The reason being, down here in the underworld, our locally-produced drill sets have the box lid hinge on the left and the smaller drills at the front, with the larger drills at the rear. This seems like a logical layout to me.
> But anytime I go to open my Huot drill box, it's like jumping into my car and finding the steering wheel has moved to the other side!!
> 
> Do all you guys in the upper world run everything back to front?? I mean to say - your steering wheels are on the left, you drive on the right, you change gears with your right hand - and you open your drill boxes from the wrong side!
> Do all your lathes have the chuck on the right, and you run your saddle from left to right, as well??



Ya, that seems backwards - but the little ones will fall out inside the box if they were different? Worse problem is some young 'un in the shop who doesn't seem to think it important to put the right bit in the correct hole. NO! That's just asking for trouble. Also, with the flutes up, you can instantly recognize the condition of the bits. If the job requires a really sharp one, I can choose by looking first. And I agree about the big Hout drawer index, those are nice. Found number and letter sets, with drawers and a little rust, and even with some drills in it on Ebay for less than a decent new small one. Btw, I chuckled at dumping the Harbor Fright bits in the trash.


----------



## JohnBDownunder

Frank Ford said:


> When I use a drill bit, I like to return it to the index holder "face down." That way, I can easily identify the unused, sharp bits which have the sharp edges up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, I agree, used bits can have burs that make it hard to stick 'em back flutes up.



  I agree with you Frank, I store used bits Shank up, unused as they come when bought. Seems that's just two of us unless I have missed one.
John B


----------



## planeflyer21

onetrack said:


> Do all your lathes have the chuck on the right, and you run your saddle from left to right, as well??



Yup, all true!  And we have to run our lathes backwards to get lefthand threads too.


----------



## trickydic

I do both. In a job shop where multiple people use multiple indexes, by practices if the drill was used before putting back in the index and was not inspected before putting back in the index (touched up, resharpened, deburred, etc.) it would go flute down. If it was inspected before putting back in the index it goes flute up. Then when any of the machinists or users have filler work needed the indexes are looked at for bringing drills to 100%. This is neither right nor wrong and in my opinion it is what ever feels comfortable for the user.


----------



## great white

onetrack said:


> One has to ask? - why do they come from the factory, flutes up? Gotta be a reason, surely?
> .......
> Do all you guys in the upper world run everything back to front?? I mean to say - your steering wheels are on the left, you drive on the right, you change gears with your right hand - and you open your drill boxes from the wrong side!
> Do all your lathes have the chuck on the right, and you run your saddle from left to right, as well??



They come "flutes up" because it looks prettier on the store shelves of course!



Back to front?

Meh; toe-may- toe / toe-mah-toe.

You guys have steering wheels on the right but drive on the left, etc.

My drill boxes hinge on the left or from the top though....


----------



## moxie

I store my drill bits shank down.  In this way if you have a bit with a burr on the shank you'll know it as it won't go back into the box.  Then you can dress off the burr and put it away.


----------



## gradient

Flutes up.  Better to deburr when you discover it.


----------



## KarlB

Flutes up, I agree with removing the burrs right away.


----------



## Round in circles

I usually  put a drill back sharpened if it has lost it's keenness,  that way I always have sharp drills to hand  when I want them . I no longer have the old metal mild steel or broken plastic boxes the drills came in donkeys years ago .
All my  twist drills now reside laid along side others in one of three heavy plastic open topped boxes inside a drawer on heavy duty ball bearing slides ... heinous or is it ? 

I'm still able to look at most of the hundred or so drills I have and say what sizes they are .

Very few of my drill have chuck slip marks let alone burrs on them  as I always tighten at all three of the key holes on all the chucks of the various drilling devices that I have.

For precise holes like tapping the various thread forms I do mic the drills just to be sure . 

 One box has  all the below 1/4 dia 6. mm  in it , the next to it is 1/4. 6.4 mm  to 3/8 plus the metrics  &  the other is all those sizes above up to 16 mm .

The Morse tapers live on double thicknesses of old towel laid out in size order inside some shallow open wooden trays as I only have about 20 of them all told .


----------



## 4GSR

Ok, I took one of my drill stands and put the flutes down on the drill bits.  I will admit, it's easier to grab a drill and pull it out with out the fear of slicing open your fingers on the flutes of the drill bit.  Now to do this the the other 86 bits I have here.


----------



## Mr Ron

BGHansen said:


> A tool maker named "Wally" (Bob Waller) picked up a Harbor Freight 29 pc. fractional drill set that was setting on my desk.  He looked at the drills, looked at me, dumped them in the trash and left with my index.  He came back with the index full of cryo bits.  I asked why he put them in the index up side down.  Wally always put drill bits in the index with the shank end up for a couple of reasons.  First, if you burr up the shank by spinning a bit in the chuck, it still goes back in the index.  Second, your fingers aren't on the sharp/hot end of the bit.  Guess I hadn't put too much thought into it at the time, but his logic makes sense.  That's how I store them now.  How about you guys?
> 
> Bruce
> 
> View attachment 120374


I have been using drill bits for 70 years and have never cut my fingers on the flutes of a drill. Besides the HF drill bits, I would have tossed the index also.


----------



## Mr Ron

My Huot drill index hinges on the left and the large bits are in the rear.


----------



## WalterC

My hands are so hard and callused, heat and sharp stuff don't seem to bother me either way.


----------



## Denis M

I prefer not taking a chance on cutting my fingers. So I keep them shank up, along with my milling bits that are stored in a box.


----------



## High-Side

Flutes up, unless it's dull.  Tip/flutes down reminds me which ones need to be touched up.


----------



## kd4gij

Laying on the bench in front of the index.


----------



## Swarf S

I don't know why my fellow hobbyist bad mouth Harbor Freight Twist drill. I have been using HF tools and accessories since they came to the USA., over twenty years ago.  At first some of the tools were closer to junks than to good. But I continues to have the tools replaced when they were not good. Today, I have not had to back on warranty, guaranty, etc. etc. As for the drills I bought the Titanium Nitride Worrier 29 bit set item # 61637, on sale for $9.99. They are so good I went and bought three more sets to have near each of my machines in the shop. They are great.
See, that what happens when people see good low prices on items and they then call them cheap junk, (sick) I can't complain, just praise. I have seen the same tools and accessories in different catalogues, same product, same manufacturer but at twice or thrice the price.


----------



## Swarf S

I do like the bit first and shank up in the indexer. Save those minor cuts from the bit edge. I went and turned all my bits around. Thanks for the excellent tip.


----------



## TommyD

Shanks up, cutting edge down. I saw a dude open up the palm of his right hand trying to stop his drill index from falling off his eork cart. An AH-HA moment for me.


----------



## Alittlerusty

If u have ever used a cordless keylessndrill chuck and cheap bits  in steel u will definitely get
Burrs on some shanks but if your talking drilling with a sharp quality bit on a well secured piece on a press / mill / lathe  then  no burrs


----------



## Alittlerusty

EspeciAlly those cheap reduced shank  bits softer than grapes


----------



## eeler1

Carbide drill bits are more difficult to raise burrs on.  Harder than the index.  Buy some.  Problem solved.


----------



## Tony Wells

I point mine in all directions. I have a Huot rollaway and top box and a couple of drawers are dedicated to used drills. I toss them in at random, and paw through them to find one suitable for the task at hand. New stock stays in the envelope they come in, usually either 6 or 12 pc until they get used, then into the rollaway drawer. Been that way for years. Never a cut or a problem with burrs on shanks. I don't quite get that anyway. That means your chuck jaws are not getting a good grip, a problem to be solved or you're grabbing when you break through uncontrollably and spinning them. You jaws ought to be hard enough and sharp enough to get a grip.


----------



## 12bolts

I remember a member here posted how, (forget who) he put every 4th? bit in his index upside down to make it easier to find each 1/8th. Now what would he do?

Cheers Phil


----------



## Groundhog

Good drill are shank down. If they need attention (sharpening, burr stoned off, etc.) they are shank up.


----------



## Heckle and Jeckle

Looks to me one has a 50 / 50 chance of having it correct .


----------



## Silverbullet

toolroom said:


> Been doin' that since 1978 when I started my Washington State Apprenticeship Program. An O'le Sweede told me that, an' I been doin' it ever since. OMG, that's been 46 years?
> Yowza


Funny I had an old Scotsman during some of mine almost fifty years ago now.


----------



## jdedmon91

BGHansen said:


> Good thought! I asked him about that at the time and just got "the look". The transaction occurred about 20 years ago at a GM plant in Lansing, MI.
> 
> As an aside, I was in the tool room reviewing a job when a scooter backed into a Vidmar with fractional, number and letter drill bits in it. Knocked the cabinet over and mixed up the drills. They gave the sorting job to an apprentice who tired of the task and dumped about 3 coffee cans full of new HSS bits in the trash. I retrieved most of them and spent many an evening with index gauges and mics sorting drill bits. Never had to think about buying another HF drill set!
> 
> Bruce



I still have a bunch of drills I’m working on that I got from the day job before I retired. One day I’ll finish them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

