# New Enco 12 x36



## Falcon67 (Aug 19, 2014)

I blame this loss of savings mostly on Enco. Two 30% off offers in a row is just more than a guy can handle when he's pining for some new tool. So a new Enco 12 x 36 Model 411-0105 bench lathe is my big investment for the year.  Looked and looked at used and others. Oil boom has sucked up most decent machines and what does show up is somewhat over priced or just ratted out.  Not a lot of manufacturing/job shop stuff in west Texas anyway.  Helping to push me into it was a discussion over on the 12x36 Yahoo group.  There is a post from someone that just bought this same machine in July. He said it came equipped much like the Griz 4003 including a piston type tool post. Didn't match the catalog, looked better out of the box so to speak.  And it turned out to be just so, so far.
I'll try to blog/detail my experience with this thing and maybe that will help someone down the road with a purchase. 
------
The trucking company kinda forgot to call, so when I called Enco to get a delivery update it turned out it was sitting on the doc at the local Southeastern Freight terminal. I took a long lunch from work to run home and get the truck and flat bed trailer, then go pick it up.
The end by the lift is for sure the heavy end. Gross weight per box is 530 kg/1166 lbs.




Secured for the trip to the shop.



- - - Updated - - -

Copy of the Enco catalog page at time of purchase. Their site is really weird. A search on "lathe" or clicking through to the Machinery, Lathes, Lathes-Bench, Brand Enco does not show the purchased part number. It's in the catalog and can be located on a different web page with google - http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/96912-bench ... -0105.html  As you'll see below, the real deal differes from the picture a bit.




- - - Updated - - -

Snatching it off the trailer was a bit of a trick. It took a couple of tries to find a decent balance point.




With the wife's guiding hand, it rests on the hoist.



- - - Updated - - -

After a bit of finagling, I got it off the hoist on to the floor. Nothing like the picture, is it? It does match the description posted on the Yahoo 12x36 group by a recent purchaser. The splash guard is behind the machine and the chip pan is propped on the mower. The QCTP is a Series 200 and it came with a -201 and -202 tool holder. Tool box, cool red oil can, big 4 jaw chuck and the usual misc. The work light has what looks like a regular bulb in it, so I may hack that to LED. Nice to have for any reason. Not sure what I was expecting, but having spent years with a 9x20 this thing is HUGE. The overall condition of the machine is good and a bit greasy/dirty. Going to use a lot of WD-40 cleaning on this guy.

It'll be a little while before it's running. I'll start on the stand now that I have the chip pan to use for a pattern. I plan to run 12-3 to the machine for both 240 and 120 service on the stand. I sourced some Cooper Wiring twist lock 20 amp plugs from Amazon, way cheaper than HD or Lowes. 50' of 12-3 is around $60.







Gearbox Face plate.  End cover on the left is cast fiberglass.



Aerial view



Carriage



- - - Updated - - -

Finally got the thing off the skid and on wheels. That's not a balance point, but it was enough to let me lift the tail end and slide the skid out from under. The lathe is now parked off to the side - I still have to get a sick race car in here this weekend for some tuning so I'm trying to clear a space. The home made roller under the headstock uses some casters that I got off a scrapped IT server bench rated at around 1000 lbs. I usually have a transmission or engine block on it.



Sizing up the eventual parking space.


The tool box contained with this cool bright red oil can. I took a picture and showed it to a lady I work with that is from Malaysia. She read the company name and said "Those are the same people that sell rice wine." Diversified economy, indeed.




Stand build is next, will be on that in a few days.  Depends on time available for shop work.


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## zmotorsports (Aug 19, 2014)

Chris, glad to see you over here and feel you will be a valuable contributor the forum.  There are some great people here and a lot of experience to be shared.

Welcome.

Mike.


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## drs23 (Aug 19, 2014)

You're sure correct about it looking nothing like the pictures. Glad to see you were able to get it picked up. Looking forward to what you think after getting up on stands and making chips!


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## zmotorsports (Aug 19, 2014)

I didn't notice before Chris, but the one pictured in the Enco add has the Norton style QCGB and the one you have sitting on your shop floor has a sealed gearbox for the feed/speed.  What kind of change gears are required for threading either Imperial or Metric threads, if any?

Mike.


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## Ulma Doctor (Aug 19, 2014)

:greenwithenvy:
wow she sure is pretty!!!!
i like the removeable bed gap, and D1-4 are nice features!!!

i haven't owned a brand new lathe, the ones i get are bought new by the original owner and not used for 20+ years, then i buy them at a discount and put em' back to work.

You will get lots of use and enjoyment out of that lathe!!!
thanks for sharing.


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## Falcon67 (Aug 19, 2014)

Thanks very much for the welcome.  I'm sure I'll tap the collective for help in the very near future.  

I'm not very knowledgeable about threading, but it appears that a set of metric change gears came in the tool box.

>i haven't owned a brand new lathe, the ones i get are bought new by the  original owner and not used for 20+ years, then i buy them at a discount  and put em' back to work.
Gave up on that around here, nothing turns up except cheap 20xreally long oil field type things.  But I think that I will chase a decent used BP when we get the race trailer paid off.  A new Turn Pro is around 6K, so I figure I can find a decent one for $2~3K and fix any issues, replace spindle bearings, etc.  Would like to be able to do some valve seat type work eventually.

The stand - LOL.  I have some metal saved from the stand I made for the G0519.  So after inventory, I have enough 2x2 14 ga for the top (20"x59.25" box), enough 2x2 8 ga for two legs and a cross piece for the top, enough 2x2 11 ga for two more legs and two more cross pieces , along with 24' of 1x2 14 ga found in an alley.  The ruff plan is a 30" tall stand with levelers on the 4 corners and some casters on 1 1/2 tube that would slip in the bottom of the legs for moving the assembly when needed.  The levelers are a little light weight but should work.  They are labeled "2000lb" (from Amazon) but are made of 14 ga sheet metal LOL.  I'll give them 350.  I could go get another 24' joint of 11 ga, but I'm weaseling for a 3 drawer box to integrate into the stand.

http://www.rockler.com/heavy-duty-lifting-leveler


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## darkzero (Aug 19, 2014)

The one pictured in their catalog is closer to a Grizzly G4003 & the one you have is closer to Grizzly G0750G or the PM1236, minus various features of course. Perhaps the CM no longer makes that older version. I wouldn't worry, think of it as an upgrade as long as the specs meet what is advertised.

The gearbox is pretty much like my PM1236. I like the knobs better anyway, I find them easier to use then the levers or whatever they are called.

My PM1236 came with the same halogen light. I used to be heavy into custom flashlights so I'm an LED guy, I changed my lamp out for a different one but I still choose to go with halogen. I went with 50W instead of the 25W of the original. I could have built a custom LED array for mine & went with a neutral or warm tint but I still prefer the halogen for working on the lathe with florescents overhead. I can see detail & colors much more better. As your eyes get older cool tints tend to wash away colors but I'm not even old yet. LEDs have came a long way though & keep getting better.

Congrats on the new lathe!


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## Falcon67 (Aug 19, 2014)

Thanks.  I have not looked at the light that close, but it appears to be some basic automotive type bulb and not halogen.  I'm thinking LED anyway and I will have a 4' shop light over the unit.  I can't see without a couple of 6500K bulbs close by!


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## darkzero (Aug 19, 2014)

Falcon67 said:


> it appears to be some basic automotive type bulb and not halogen.



There's 2 versions of that light, halogen & fluorescent. I never seen the fluorescent one come stock on a lathe though & the difference is clear. Automotive bulbs (HLs) are halogen. It's a 24v bi pin halogen (On the Grizzly & PM, not to be confused with incandescent) so if you happen to touch the bulb with your finger & want to use it again be sure to clean with alcohol before turning it on.


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## Falcon67 (Aug 19, 2014)

Close inspection reveals you are correct.  Looks halogen.  I'll be swapping that for something that doesn't throw light with heat like a torch.


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## Falcon67 (Aug 25, 2014)

A bit of movement on this item - managed a start on the stand.  I spent a couple of hours Saturday before the race cleaning rust off of steel tubing with a 4" angle grinder.  Fun.  After I got the tube looking useful, I cut a bunch of the major pieces.  Last night I spent a couple of hours welding together the top.  The perimeter is 2x2 14 gauge.  The cross bars on the head end are 2x2 8 gauge and the tail stock end is 2xd2 11 gauge.  Dimensions are 59 1/2 x 20".  The lip on the chip pan stands up a bit in the rear because the stand is wider than the outside edges but I figure the weight of the machine will make the sheet metal do what it needs to do.  I just felt like a couple of more inches wide made for a more steady base.  Legs on the head end will be 2x2 8 gauge and the other end will be 2x2 11 gauge.  The 1x2 will be cross braces and such.  And, I did get the tool box and will figure out how to mount it.  Maybe get more done tonight.

One thing I did that might not seem logical was to fit the long sides and the cross supports before the end pieces.  Since my metal chopping equipment isn't all that accurate, better to have the support beams in place and square before anything else.  I have a stash of magnets out of old hard drives and they are killer for sticking pieces of metal together.  Enough that some require a screw driver or pry bar to get them off.  Did corner to corner until the frame was square, then tacked it up.  Last things on were the ends.  The 45s look nice, weld covers a lot of error -ha.  No closeups of welds either.  I need a cheater lens for my hood.  In the mean time I use reading glasses and unless I can get my face about 12" from the weld I have real trouble seeing much of the puddle or the target.    I just work slow and close.


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## zmotorsports (Aug 25, 2014)

Looks awesome Chris.  Can't wait to see her making chips and sitting in her new home.

Mike.


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## Falcon67 (Aug 27, 2014)

A few more nights work and it looks more like a stand.  Got another 2 lb spool of .030 wire and now I can work again.  Started with legs, I know how to use them.  Leveled the top, then used the levels, magnets and careful positioning to weld in 3 nearly vertical legs and one off 1/4".  I don't know, so much for precision.  It doesn't even have a weld bead yet on the side that leg leans.  Fine, I have a hammer.




Non conforming leg would be the right rear, leaning left.



Add in the cross braces, some hammering and now we're within 1/16" from end to end.  There's about a dozen more pieces to cut and tack in.  Typical - need 64" of 1" angle and my piece is 58" long.  Back to Lowes, again.


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## visenfile (Aug 27, 2014)

Thanks , I am a newbie lurker and long time Enco customer (small stuff).  When will they dump the really tedious software on their site and compete on level ground with Grizz and others?  Still looking for that first lathe but worried that at my low work rate  (sporadic use) I will stumble accross problems too late in the new lathe and parts availability in a used one.  Great looking machine!


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## zmotorsports (Aug 27, 2014)

Looks great Chris.  Are you going to have storage underneath?

I think when I get caught up maybe this fall/winter, I am going to remove the sheetmetal partition in the middle of my cabinet that is between the two end storage cabinets and build a metal framework to put a toolbox on.  This way I can have some extra drawers to tooling storage.  It seems to be some wasted space that I should be able to use.

Mike.


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## Falcon67 (Aug 27, 2014)

My wife and I maintain a good size website (  http://bigcountryraceway.com )including track pictures, graphics, etc.  Its huge work to develop and maintain even a small active web site.  use-enco.com works pretty well so I don't know how much they would want to spend in many hours to revamp. It does have some weird hidden corners for sure. Getting things in your cart and checking out is pretty easy, so that's pretty good.

Yep, storage under is in the plan.  Not anything fancy but I think you'll like it.


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## Pops (Aug 31, 2014)

Falcon,
like the web site. My son and I used to race stock cars on a dirt track for several years. Lotta fun. Got rather expensive though. 

Anyway, wanted to say I bought two 1340 Enco lathes yesterday from a friend of a neighbor. He closed his machine shop a while back and had a surface grinder and these two lathes left. Gave him $1500 for both of them. Just need to move them to my shop before he changes his mind! Built a three phase converter last week to power them. Hopefully they are in descent shape. Don't look to bad on the outside.


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## Falcon67 (Sep 1, 2014)

Dang, that was a buy there.  Good score on the machines.

Some progress - not home a lot lately, but did get some more done on the stand this weekend.  Got the lower framework tacked in at least.




My pick for the tail end storage solution solution.  On the other end, I think I'm just going to put about 4 pieces of 1" square tube in there 7/16" down from the edge and across the width, then drop in a piece of OSB.  I found some black light weight metal baskets at Ross on sale, so I just need a place to set a few things.  OSB is cheap and easy to replace if it gets tore up.  I don't happen to have a piece of steel that size and don't see a need to spend $40 on one.   Should get the leveling feet on tonight and get a start on the removable casters.


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## zmotorsports (Sep 1, 2014)

Chris, looking good.  Can't wait to see it all painted up with the new lathe sitting on it and making chips.

Thanks for keeping us up to date although sorry to hear that you are not getting much shop time.

Mike.


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## Falcon67 (Sep 1, 2014)

zmotorsports said:


> Chris, looking good.  Can't wait to see it all painted up with the new lathe sitting on it and making chips.
> 
> Thanks for keeping us up to date although sorry to hear that you are not getting much shop time.
> 
> Mike.



Thanks.  Shop time is why the Mustang is up on stands because it overheated at the TnT back in March.  I might get the headers off later this month, maybe even the motor out.


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## Falcon67 (Sep 3, 2014)

Ready to wipe down and cover with self etching primer.



And I "solved" the temporary caster issue.  I had the answer right under my nose.   Bought these on a coupon a couple of years ago, tuned them up and used  them to scoot a 3000lb car around the shop.  Just forgot they were  stashed under the parts washer.




Maybe get the lathe up on this thing Sunday, maybe.


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## HACKMASTER (Sep 3, 2014)

that oil can looks better than mine


Falcon67 said:


> I blame this loss of savings mostly on Enco. Two 30% off offers in a row is just more than a guy can handle when he's pining for some new tool. So a new Enco 12 x 36 Model 411-0105 bench lathe is my big investment for the year.  Looked and looked at used and others. Oil boom has sucked up most decent machines and what does show up is somewhat over priced or just ratted out.  Not a lot of manufacturing/job shop stuff in west Texas anyway.  Helping to push me into it was a discussion over on the 12x36 Yahoo group.  There is a post from someone that just bought this same machine in July. He said it came equipped much like the Griz 4003 including a piston type tool post. Didn't match the catalog, looked better out of the box so to speak.  And it turned out to be just so, so far.
> I'll try to blog/detail my experience with this thing and maybe that will help someone down the road with a purchase.
> ------
> The trucking company kinda forgot to call, so when I called Enco to get a delivery update it turned out it was sitting on the doc at the local Southeastern Freight terminal. I took a long lunch from work to run home and get the truck and flat bed trailer, then go pick it up.
> ...


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## tmarks11 (Sep 3, 2014)

visenfile said:


> When will they dump the really tedious software on their site and compete on level ground with Grizz and others?



You think that is bad, try going to penntoolco.com.  Penn Tool's website has minimal real index or sorting.  You want to look at lathes?  They give you 7 pages of text links... 

Once you get used to Enco, it is not so bad.... the best way is once you find an item from a search or the index, go straight to the catalog page, and shop from there. Plus, they have a much better selection of everything.  Grizzly sells you your choice of 6 different threading tools, Enco gives you 6 pages of threading tools...

Grizzly might be trying to compete with Enco, but I don't think Enco is trying to compete with Grizzly.  Grizzly is all about machinery sales, with only a smattering of tooling available to help you start playing with your toys.  Enco is mostly about tooling, with only a small selection of machinery for sale.


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## darkzero (Sep 3, 2014)

Yup, I don;'t mind Enco's site at all. Yeah their search feature isn't the greatest but I don't have any problem finding stuff or navigating their site. If you really get frustrated, just go to Google & search for the item you want followed by Enco, it's the quickest way.

I rather Enco not spend money on revamping their website & keeping their prices low with their often sales. Good thing MSC didn't completely change them when they took over. Great to have the best of both worlds, I still buy often from MSC also.


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## Falcon67 (Sep 8, 2014)

Not much to report other than some self etch primer with a bit of Granite Gray Rustolem and that it's finally up off the floor.  I'll get it moved to it home spot tonight, if there is any spare time.


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## zmotorsports (Sep 8, 2014)

Looks great Chris.  Looks much better up off the floor.

Mike.


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## Falcon67 (Sep 9, 2014)

Thanks.  It's parked were I thought I wanted it now, which is in the middle of the work room between the 9x20 and the welding bench.  I love my wife - she comes out to see, looks around and says "I think your layout need some work.  Kinda messy to get a wire there, you should probably put it against a wall."  So out comes the Visio and I'm taking another look at the work flow and machine footprints.


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## zmotorsports (Sep 9, 2014)

Falcon67 said:


> Thanks.  It's parked were I thought I wanted it now, which is in the middle of the work room between the 9x20 and the welding bench.  I love my wife - she comes out to see, looks around and says "I think your layout need some work.  Kinda messy to get a wire there, you should probably put it against a wall."  So out comes the Visio and I'm taking another look at the work flow and machine footprints.



I know how that goes.  I never would have imagined putting my milling machine in the middle of the floor.  I was just expecting to put it against a wall but when I realized all of my wall space was occupied and there is nothing that I can live without I was stumped.

My wife did the same thing, came out in the shop one night while I was working on a bike and pointed where one of the lifts were and said, "that lift is hard to get to, why don't you put the mill there and move the motorcycle lift over where you can get a bike on both of them easier."  I hadn't thought of that, I guess it was a mental block because I was looking for wall space.  It actually works out much better because it is right across from the lathe so both machines are in very close proximity and therefore the mess should be somewhat contained in that smaller area as well.

Gotta love the wives.

Mike.


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## tmarks11 (Sep 10, 2014)

Falcon67 said:


> "I think your layout need some work.  Kinda messy to get a wire there, you should probably put it against a wall."


Put a junction box in the ceiling and drop a wire down to the lathe.  No wire on floor, no mess, works great.  

Pushing equipment against the wall in some cases makes it harder to use and maintain.  

A table saw, for instance, belongs squarely in the middle of a room.


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## nightowl499 (Sep 10, 2014)

Welcome  looks like Christmas came early ..    Oh and that's a good looking stand you've made there looks handy


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## Falcon67 (Sep 10, 2014)

tmarks11 said:


> Put a junction box in the ceiling and drop a wire down to the lathe.  No wire on floor, no mess, works great.
> 
> Pushing equipment against the wall in some cases makes it harder to use and maintain.
> 
> A table saw, for instance, belongs squarely in the middle of a room.



I keep coming back to the center of the work room (12x24) section of the shop.  But it would also make sense to have the 30x60 steel work table in the middle of the room.  So, I'm still thinking about a wall location.  Just not finding one easily without major reorg of wall stuff.  I bought 20A twist lock items for a drop cord, so I can go either way.  Steel table if right in the pic.  If I swap places I would probably have to raise that shelf and for sure re-locate all the bolt bins.  Left wall is full with peg board, 48" work bench and 72" bench with the 9x20 on top.


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## zmotorsports (Sep 10, 2014)

Just food for thought here Chris, everyone has their own preference but I would rather have the workbench in the middle and the lathe against the wall.

My main workbenches are mounted to the floor and walls along the front of my shop with my toolbox in the middle.  These get used a lot for general repairs of whatever I am working on.

That said, my heavy duty welding table which is 36"x50" is located so I can get around it 360 degrees.  This is a very nice option when welding on a large item so you can reposition rather than having to keep repositioning the part/piece.  I also wheel my welding table over across from one of my solid mounted workbenches when I rebuild a tranny as it is nice to have the workbench and then simply turn around to the other bench for the transmision rebuild.  The ability to move the one table around is a nice feature.

Just a thought.


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## Falcon67 (Sep 10, 2014)

zmotorsports said:


> Just food for thought here Chris, everyone has their own preference but I would rather have the workbench in the middle and the lathe against the wall.
> 
> My main workbenches are mounted to the floor and walls along the front of my shop with my toolbox in the middle.  These get used a lot for general repairs of whatever I am working on.
> 
> ...



Thinking along those lines.  The steel bench is from an old trans shop too LOL.   I have a motor to pull down (in the Mustang) and maybe mine too, so a centered work table is looking more like the ticket.  It's that snowball thing - move this here, now I have to move that there and this thing doesn't fit...

What I think will work, before getting out the tape measure and doing a verification on floor space:


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## zmotorsports (Sep 10, 2014)

Falcon67 said:


> *It's that snowball thing* - move this here, now I have to move that there and this thing doesn't fit...
> 
> What I think will work, before getting out the tape measure and doing a verification on floor space:



That is no kidding.  My shop was in pretty good shape before ordering the new machinery but then trying to not lose any more space to equipment than necessary I ended up moving about every piece of equipment in my shop less my two permanently mounted workbenches and my toolbox.  Everything else was fair game.

I will admit though now after a week of having my shop all put back together I do like it better this way.  It seems to "flow" better.

P.S. Chris, I always enjoy looking at pictures of your shop.  I really like it.


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## Falcon67 (Sep 10, 2014)

Thanks very much for the compliment.  Yes, change can be good - makes you think through things and try something fresh.  

Change is not good when it's your carb calibration -or something- on the last race of the year (stupid old Ford).  The drawing above does kinda leave out the incidentals that really chew up space - the grandkid's 4 wheelers, minibikes, the street tires for the Falcon, lol, etc, etc.  Everything seems to gravitate to Papa's shop for fixing and/or perpetual storage.  Ha- the answer!  Park the race car in the shop for service, put all the 4 wheelers, mower, etc in the race trailer.


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## zmotorsports (Sep 10, 2014)

Falcon67 said:


> Thanks very much for the compliment.  Yes, change can be good - makes you think through things and try something fresh.
> 
> Change is not good when it's your carb calibration -or something- on the last race of the year (stupid old Ford).  The drawing above does kinda leave out the incidentals that really chew up space - the grandkid's 4 wheelers, minibikes, the street tires for the Falcon, lol, etc, etc.  Everything seems to gravitate to Papa's shop for fixing and/or perpetual storage.  Ha- the answer!  *Park the race car in the shop for service, put all the 4 wheelers, mower, etc in the race trailer.*




Been there done that.  For years when we would get back from the races the sand toys would go into the shop for prep for the next race(s) and the ATV's and dirt bikes would go into the trailer, then put the trailer in storage.  Sucked but didn't know what else to do, we were busting at the seams and I wouldn't let anything sit outside and I wasn't going to go back into debt for another home after getting ours paid off.

Now we have sold the sand toys (race toys), sold the ATV's, dirt bikes and snowmobiles.  The only things we have left is out Jeep and Harleys.  No more doing the motorsports shuffle between trailer and shop.  I miss the racing but don't miss the shuffling.  I also don't miss the dent that racing left in my wallet.ondering:


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## Falcon67 (Sep 15, 2014)

Yea, that racin' thing kind wears on the finances.  However - if I may toot my horn a bit - there's only been about 3 races this year that I haven't at least partially paid for the race day.  

So after many hours slaving over a hot laptop with the Visio, I just kicked some equipment out of the room and parked it here.  Moved the mill to the other corner and put the bolt buckets in the mill spot.  Moving the mill forced the extension of it's 240v line, but I decided that the new lathe and the mill will share that line and save the cost of 75' of wire and another breaker.  The press, metal saw and drill press are bunched in a corner in the other room.  And, the work room has a better "feel" to it.  More maker-space feeling.  Oil is draining out of the headstock and the last no-lathe item is to weld some bracing under that steel table top to get the oil canning out of it. Well, after I put new casters on the welding cart.  (stupid cheapie ball bearings) I hay-wired the power cord and ran the lathe for a few seconds to see how the controls worked.  Had to run to Homer's House to get a proper 4" box cover to mount the lockout power switch, so I'll finish that tonight. Is it "DIY redneck" to have your welder cart up on blocks?


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## zmotorsports (Sep 15, 2014)

Chris, that looks great.  Your right it looks like it "flows" better with the lathe and mill next to each other.

As far as the welding cart being up on blocks, just tell people it is in for a "pit stop".

Now let's see some chips flying off of that new lathe.:impatient:


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## mike johns (Sep 15, 2014)

Falcon67 said:


> Not much to report other than some self etch primer with a bit of Granite Gray Rustolem and that it's finally up off the floor.  I'll get it moved to it home spot tonight, if there is any spare time.


I really like your lathe  congratulations   enjoy//


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## Falcon67 (Sep 16, 2014)

Got the power all squared away last night.  They make such a cute couple don't you think.  I used to think that a 12x36 would be a good complement to the mill/drill but now it looks kinda small.




Messy mess - got the gear box cleaned out.  Lots of paper towels and then vacuumed it out with the shop vac.  Really hard to get my hands down in there very much.  A pair of vinyl gloves didn't stand a chance against those gears.  I found a hard drive magnet with a flat back mount and just laid that in the bottom of the box to catch any future shavings.  I doubt it moves and if it does it's well below any gears.  Not even a 1/4" thick.  The new ISO 68 oil is nice and clear, much better to look at - and smell - than the near gallon of oil that came out.  My grand son said the old oil looked like a gallon jug of sweet tea from the BBQ shack. I left the lid off, set the lathe on 70 RPM and bumped it over.  Be assured that splash lubrication does indeed work and actually works quite well.  [insert 30 minutes of clean up here].




I'll see what I can get out of the lower gear box tonight, maybe.  Not sure about TTC (Time To Chips) as I'd like to clean as much of the mechanics as I can, including pulling apart the cross slide and maybe even the apron.


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## zmotorsports (Sep 16, 2014)

Looks like some nice progress Chris.  Personally, I think the two pieces of equipment compliment each other perfectly.  Bigger is not always better, especially when the needs don't justify it.  I would much rather have the space and the equipment just big enough to get the tasks done.  That said, the mill and lathe I have are probably larger than I really need for the majority of my work.


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## Falcon67 (Sep 16, 2014)

The mill is a good tool.  A 9x49V with square ways would be gooder.  I did order some new feet (same ones as on the lathe) for the mill to replace the DIY feet I made for it.  I have never been able to really dial it in, and now it sits in what is likely the most level spot in the whole shop.  Some truly adjustable feet will help.  I want to get the lathe gear boxes clean ASAP so I can run it a while.  I was not able to stretch the belts another .050 or so to get the pulley back on the drive with the belts on the low speed pulleys.  Hopefully the belts will relax a bit after running a while at 1400 RPM.


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## zmotorsports (Sep 16, 2014)

You may even want to entertain the thought of putting a better quality belt(s) on the lathe.  I did on my previous lathe after about a month of using it and it was like a completely different machine.  My new lathe (PM1340GT) chewed up the OEM belt within the first couple of hours and even though it was a fairly quiet machine, after installing a NAPA (Gates) belt, it was even more quiet and smooth.  Plus it did allow the motor to sit a little further out which allowed easier pulley speed changes compared to the OEM belt.


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## drs23 (Sep 16, 2014)

zmotorsports said:


> You may even want to entertain the thought of putting a better quality belt(s) on the lathe.  I did on my previous lathe after about a month of using it and it was like a completely different machine.  My new lathe (PM1340GT) chewed up the OEM belt within the first couple of hours and even though it was a fairly quiet machine, after installing a NAPA (Gates) belt, it was even more quiet and smooth.  Plus it did allow the motor to sit a little further out which allowed easier pulley speed changes compared to the OEM belt.



Mike,

Did you ever consider the "Fenner" type belts? I installed one on an Atlas QC54 I had some time back and was really impressed with the reduction in vibration. I've recently started getting some odd finishes on my lathe and am entertaining trying them again and verifying the preload on my spindle bearings. I'm going to do the bearings first since their there already and if that doesn't do it then the belts are next so I'll know what actually did the trick.


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## Falcon67 (Sep 17, 2014)

Got the oil changed in the lower gear box last night.  That wasn't much of an issue.  I made a trough from some scrap .030 aluminum sheet and use that to direct the flow into a drain pan.  The saddle was more fun.  I drained out what little was in there, then started adding in new.  Misread the amount, didn't see anything change in the sight glass and put nearly a quart in there.  Hey, it's raining oil.  )  Well, at least that helped flush out the saddle.  Lets try a pint.  The sight glass on the saddle must be clogged as it does not show the new oil level - the old brown oil is stuck in the sight glass.  

I should be ready to do some run/break in on the lathe speeds, so I'll see what that does for the belts.  HF advertises a link belt that gets good reviews.  I'll have to clip a coupon and try one if the local store stocks them.  5' of link belt for $25 is a pretty good deal.


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## Falcon67 (Sep 18, 2014)

Exploded view of the compound.  After looking at this, I'll be taking the cross slide apart to get all the goo out of it.  I'm glad I did the cross as the gib was put in with the roughest side facing the slide Vs so it needs a little 220 grit work on the surface plate.  The other side is smooth - well, China smooth - but the notch in the gib to catch the rear adjustment screw is cut to put the bad side out.  Might just take a little bite out of the other side and clean it up a bit.  The tool post bushing was also pretty nasty/rusty.  For any adjustments I'm referring to the Grizzly G4003 manual.


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## Falcon67 (Sep 20, 2014)

Got the cross back together.  Thought I better do it before I forgot where the parts went.  A close look at the gib showed that it for sure was in "backwards", meaning the rough side faced the slide.  I took a few minutes to smooth that side on the surface plate with WD-40 and a sheet of 220 wet dry.  Went back in easier and after some adjustment the slide feels pretty smooth.


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## Falcon67 (Oct 1, 2014)

It's still here, just other things are in the way of working on the lathe.  I'm trying to get the hot rod ready for our local Cruise Night this Saturday.  Got the carbs back working again but the hood is still in sanded primer.  Have paint, need time for a quick spray.  



I did manage to get some tooling using the Grizzly 10% off coupon.



Upper left, clockwise:
Tool holder with MT2 bore so I can use some of my 9x20 tooling 
Cutoff holder and blade
Threading tool, just because
Knurling set - thought I'd try these since they are cheaper than the full holder
MT3-MT2 adapter for the tail stock, also to use some of the 9x20 tooling.  Promptly cut off the tang so I only lose 3/4" of tail stock travel.

Now for the bummer - the new BXA holders will not fit on the BXA post supplied on the lathe.  I did not have time to do a full investigation but they stop about .25 down on the post where there is a little bit of a lip on the post mounting faces.  Only the holders supplied with the lathe fit.  Since the dimensions for BXA tool holders are pretty standard, I'm thinking the post is at fault.  If I can prove that with some measurements, I'll hit Enco up for a replacement.  The alternative would be to lightly mill the holder faces of the post.


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## zmotorsports (Oct 1, 2014)

Nice score on the tooling Chris.  Keep us up to date on what you discover on the toolholders/toolpost.


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## jeff_g1137 (Oct 1, 2014)

Hi
One nice lathe must get back to my lathe, had it a year but not up & runing yet, no time.
This is the problem with old lathe's, looking for parts & bits.ondering:

I would not buy the lathe, off the photo on there web site ??????, but your's looks good.

More photos as you go. Nice.


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## visenfile (Oct 3, 2014)

Jeff, I agree about ENCO web site.  They are missing sales with such a cumbersome display.  Only when you go to their catalog do you see some decent photos, and then very tedious to page back and forth.  They regularly send me mail sales brocures although I am really not a big swinger.  I cannot place even small orders on their web site because of irritating problems being recognized, and have talked by phone with their sw people to no avail.  Hopefully they finally will leave the dark ages and increase their shares.


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## toolman (Oct 4, 2014)

Hey Chris, good to see another local boy on here! I'm a gunsmith in Abilene and an old street/drag racer. Stop in and see me sometime, my website has all of my contact info: www.abilenegunworks.com .
Take Care,
Tim

BTW, believe it or not, Horrible Fright carries the link belts, but they aren't really any cheaper other than saving time and freight.


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## Falcon67 (Oct 9, 2014)

Nice!  Have to come look you up when I get time.  Love to see your shop.

No update on the tool post yet - Enco support has the pics, I will post more when I know more.

Re:   The PM1236 cross slide dial thread - got my curiosity up, so I did some quick checks with a dial indicator.  

The cross slide dial loses about .0008 in .1 (full revolution).  It's dead on at .050, and about .0004 at around .075.  In .500 (5 turns) I come up short right at .0025.  Backlash is .004.  I feel like backlash was less before I scrubbed all the parts, but .004 is not too bad I think.

The carriage is nearly dead on through .100 and come up short .002 in .500.  Backlash is .002ish, but I have not taken the carriage apart to clean the nut, etc.  There's probably .001 or .002 of grease in there somewhere.

Have to remember to check the tail stock.  Really tied up with business rest of this week and next so it may be a bit before I get back to the fun stuff.


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## zmotorsports (Oct 10, 2014)

I don't think those numbers are all that bad either Chris.

Now let's see some chips.)


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## Falcon67 (Oct 10, 2014)

No chips for a while I think.  Any suggestions for checking and adjusting the chuck would be welcome.  The spindle bore checks good I think, looks like .00025 TIR.  However, best I can get on the face plate chuck mount lip is .005.  That is matched on the chuck body.  Putting a test bar in the chuck - way way way out.  Don't need an indicator to see that far off. Big wobble.  Back plate has a pin that's a bit off because it will only mount in two of the three positions.


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## Falcon67 (Oct 10, 2014)

Threads are worthless without pics LOL

Spindle view - pretty clean as delivered.




This is the worst I could get on the test indicator



Put a test bar in the chuck - fergetaboutit.  SO I checked runout on the chuck body.



Maybe this means the chuck body is pretty true since the mount has the same runout.  Not sure I can fix this without another mount plate.  



Chuck is in pieces on the bench for cleanup.  Not sure that is the cause of the jaws being so far off, but it's worth a try.


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## zmotorsports (Oct 10, 2014)

The only thing I can think of is to take a skim cut on the recess which will allow the chuck to shift ever so slightly on the backing plate.  Then snug up the bolts for the chuck to backing plate and tighten down the jaws on a precision ground shaft, I have used an end mill clamped in backwards with the shank sticking out before.

Put a test indicator on the shank and then lightly tap the chuck around on the backing plate until it is within spec.


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## Falcon67 (Oct 22, 2014)

Finally back to this a bit, so time for an update.

Can't do much without a tool post, and the tool post that came with the lathe has some issues.  The big one is - no BXA / 20x tool holders will fit on it except the one that came sitting on the tool post.  The second supplied tool holder only fits on one side and none of the Grizzly tool holders I have fit at all.  The "good" tool holders only fit part way on one side and the 2nd one that came with the lathe won't clear the piston on the other side.  Pictures tell the story don't it:

There is a short "ground" lip at the top of the post:



The little lip as viewed from the post face:



Tool holders run down the face only as far as the ground section:



Post parts cleaned and tightened and this still sits proud of the post ways:



Bummer, yes.  But I'll take this as an opportunity to wave the flag for the vendor, Enco.  I made the call and after explaining the problem, the support desk became audibly interested in the problem and I was transferred to machine support.  I'd mention the gentleman's name but I can't find my notes just now.  I got an email address and forwarded the pictures.  After they had some time to review the pictures - about a week ish which was OK since we had a business trip to California - I got a call from the machine support guy.  "Sorry for the delay (no real delay) and a new tool post is on it's way to you.  You should have it by the time you get back to Texas.  It's a much better quality tool post than came with the lathe and it should resolve the problem."  

So we get back and pick up the medium size brick of a box and you bet, this solves all issues:



A complete Phase II Series 200 tool post package.  This is well above and beyond any expectations I had.  Just a working post would have made me happy.  Now I'm more like a kid at Christmas.  They pretty much nailed down my business.  It's really good to know that the little guys in this hobby/field have vendors that can be counted on to make things right when needed.  

All the holders fit on this 200 series post - EXCEPT the only one that fit the buggered up post.  That tool holder is made so sloppy that the pistons on the Phase II won't lock it in place.  If they do not want the old pieces back I might be able to mill it - or just toss it in the scrap bin.

Now I can work on that 3 jaw mounting plate.


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## Falcon67 (Oct 23, 2014)

For a minute there, having 2 lathes went from "spoiled tool brat" to " necessary".  I was able to chuck the existing mount in the 9x20 and just trim about .040ish off the lower shoulder of the mount. About 5 minutes work and the Phase II fit bolted right on the machine.




Ready to go to work.


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## Falcon67 (Oct 27, 2014)

Some progress to report - I took a skim cut on the chuck mounting plate and took about .005 off the center edge.  I was able to tap in the chuck so that it has right at .001 TIR on the outside.  I'm going to take a hair more off the center because I think I can get it closer.  I hit a high point where tapping with the BRM (Big Rubber Mallet) didn't make a change. A test bar in the three jaw still has about .008 wobble which is 100x better than it was but still way off the cheapie 3 jaw on the 9x20.  First run of the test bar looked like a T-Ball kid warming up for a base hit.  The jaws are not marked on this chuck, so I'm going to rotate them around some and see what I can come up with.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Oct 27, 2014)

do you have any way to lightly face the back of the 3 jaw where it registers against the backplate? I'm not sure how accurate reading off the side of the chuck is in determining run out as it could be several thou out and a test bar could still run perfectly true. Can you mount decent sized true bar in a 4 jaw (even on your 9x20) then stick your 3 jaw on backwards onto the bar, holding on with the jaws? You can then read off the back _and_ the side of the chuck. 

At present it sounds that your jaws are not parallel with the bed/ spindle. Could be that your jaws are cocked in the chuck body or that the back of your chuck isn't perpendicular to the spindle. Theoretically, facing the back of the chuck should cure both of those possible problems. I was contemplating this self same problem on the ancient OE chuck that came with my ancient lathe - in the end I just bought a new chuck, although now I have to make a backplate for it..


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## Falcon67 (Oct 28, 2014)

I might try that on the 9x20.  The only real good test bars I have right now are .500 x about 6" stainless.  From a long ago company inventory reduction, should be ground and very precise as they were used in a chart recording instrument.  

From a Q&D test by running the test indicator on sections of the chuck face, the chuck body may turn out to be pretty good.  I took it apart and cleaned it good, wire brushed the scroll and jaw threads, oiled, etc.  It operates much smoother now.  I didn't bother to return the jaws to their original locations since none are marked and neither are the slots.  I intend to center punch numbers on the jaws and move them around to see if there is a better position.  If not, I think I'll be "porting" out the jaws.  I have some long shank carbide burrs used for cylinder head porting, that might be worth a try.  Or I'll have to fab a Dremel / die grinder mount like most people.

I have a 4 jaw that came with the lathe - I haven't even unpacked that one yet.  This might be the time to check out the other chuck.


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## dave2176 (Oct 28, 2014)

Out of curiosity, how does it spin the test bar after cleaning?  Is it a cone shape or does it move the same distance/shape next to the chuck and 4" out?
Dave


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## Falcon67 (Oct 28, 2014)

dave2176 said:


> Out of curiosity, how does it spin the test bar after cleaning?  Is it a cone shape or does it move the same distance/shape next to the chuck and 4" out?
> Dave



I'll check when I get home and report back here.  I did something similar but "sloppy" and I think it was the same deviation, but I'll do a proper check and document. I see where you're going with that.


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## Falcon67 (Oct 28, 2014)

Referring to the above picture - numbers are arbitrary and only for referencing indicator readings:

I put the .500 test bar in the chuck and found the lowest point using the test indicator on top of the bar.  "Zero" came in between jaws "1" and "3".  The indicator mount base is on the cross slide.

Reading next to the jaws:
Jaw1 - .0025
Jaw2 - .0065
Jaw3 - .0015

Moving out 4" using the carriage and dragging the indicator down the top center of the test bar, the test indicator read low by .001.  I did not re-zero so as not to screw up the indicator, so I just took readings again and added back .001

Reading 4" out:
Jaw1 - .0025
Jaw2 - .0060
Jaw3 - .0015


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## dave2176 (Oct 28, 2014)

So it seems the jaws are true enough and you just need to get the chuck centered to the spindle centerline. Ray C did a thread on fixing a 3 jaw that would be worthwhile. The jist of it is to have enough room in the mounting of the backing plate to the chuck so you can mount the backing plate to the chuck loose enough that once you get it on the lathe you can tap it until centered with the spindle centerline. The carefully remove the assembly and torque the backing plate down.

Dave


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## Falcon67 (Oct 29, 2014)

Hmm - I may have enough to do that already.  Will test that theory when I get a chance.  I didn't note (previous post) exactly where the outside of the chuck was .005 out, but that variation might be enough to bring it on center.

I did unpack the 4 jaw last night - looks pretty good but needs a good cleaning.


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## Falcon67 (Oct 30, 2014)

So I backed up a bit last night.  I took the chuck and plate off and measured the spindle face.  Looks in spec at .0005.  I removed the pins from the chuck mounting plate to check the back side.  I put a sheet of 400 grit wet/dry on the surface plate and soaked it with WD-40.  Swirred the back of the plate around on that to make sure there were no burrs.  Put it back together and mounted it.  It takes an 11" breaker bar and a 3/8 extension to put enough torque on the cam locks to get a repeatable .0015 TIR on the face of the mounting plate.  I tried all three positions and the original one was most repeatable, with effort.  Once I could get the .0015 three times, I took a very light cut on the mounting face which brought it down to the .0005 of the spindle.  So I think I did the best I could with the plate.

I lightly buffed the back side of the chuck on the surface plate to make sure it was clean and put it back on the plate.  Ran out of time, and will try to work on it some more after the game tonight.  Plan would be to tap in the chuck using the outside diameter then start rotating the jaws around to see what the various readings might be.

I was partially mistaken about the jaws - there is what appears to be a 4 digit part number on them.  But where you'd expect to see a number there is nothing.  And no stamped numbers or other markings anywhere on the chuck.


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## drs23 (Oct 30, 2014)

Falcon67 said:


> So I backed up a bit last night.  I took the chuck and plate off and measured the spindle face.  Looks in spec at .0005.  I removed the pins from the chuck mounting plate to check the back side.  I put a sheet of 400 grit wet/dry on the surface plate and soaked it with WD-40.  Swirred the back of the plate around on that to make sure there were no burrs.  Put it back together and mounted it.  It takes an 11" breaker bar and a 3/8 extension to put enough torque on the cam locks to get a repeatable .0015 TIR on the face of the mounting plate.  I tried all three positions and the original one was most repeatable, with effort.  Once I could get the .0015 three times, I took a very light cut on the mounting face which brought it down to the .0005 of the spindle.  So I think I did the best I could with the plate.
> 
> I lightly buffed the back side of the chuck on the surface plate to make sure it was clean and put it back on the plate.  Ran out of time, and *will try to work on it some more after the game tonight*.  Plan would be to tap in the chuck using the outside diameter then start rotating the jaws around to see what the various readings might be.
> 
> I was partially mistaken about the jaws - there is what appears to be a 4 digit part number on them.  But where you'd expect to see a number there is nothing.  And no stamped numbers or other markings anywhere on the chuck.



Ahh, you'll probably be back out there by the half. Brees is gonna light 'em up. Carolina's D has gone downhill this season.

BTW, good job on getting your RO down to spindle specs.


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## tkitta (Oct 30, 2014)

My 12 x 24 also came with a similar red can - but my oil can is smaller - maybe the can size is related to the lathe size?


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## Falcon67 (Oct 30, 2014)

drs23 said:


> Ahh, you'll probably be back out there by the half. Brees is gonna light 'em up. Carolina's D has gone downhill this season.
> 
> BTW, good job on getting your RO down to spindle specs.



LOL - the game is 8th grade football.  Merkel Badgers vs Jim Ned Indians


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## Falcon67 (Nov 3, 2014)

I finally got the three jaw to talk right, after a bit of work.  I mounted the chuck, then tweaked it a bit using an indicator on the OD.  When I got that close, I put the test bar in the jaws.  I had to run the jaws around again to find the best TIR.  Once I got that, I tweaked the chuck on the plate using the indicator on the test bar and the tip up next to the jaws.  Best I could get was .002 TIR at the jaws, .0035 4" out.  At that point I center punched dots on the jaws and chuck in the channels.  I went around the chuck and used each scroll screw until I found the one that repeated the TIR.  Gave that one a punch mark.  Calling it "good 'nuff". 

Now for the 4 jaw.  The plate doesn't want to pull up to the spindle face evenly in any position, so I'm using a marker to find any tight spots on the taper and massaging the taper slowly with 320 grit/WD-40.  I got it to go .003 once, but could not get the cams to repeat at any torque.  It looks like a swash plate in all three positions using a breaker bar on the cams.  I'll either sneak up on it or have to get another plate.  It stands about .003~.004 proud before pull it in with the cams.  No matter how may time I go around, there is a spot that won't pull up tight.  Ran out of time to mess with it, so more on that later.


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## Falcon67 (Nov 4, 2014)

Pretty sure now I have a "bad" chuck plate.  It seems to be a problem with the pins.

Lower pin looks off a bit, but they all seem to be too close to the bore



Plate will not sit flush with pins and it will only pull up tight to the spindle on two pins



No pins - fits good and does not rock.


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## JimDawson (Nov 4, 2014)

It looks like your pins need to be adjusted.  Try removing the set screw and screw the pin(s) in another turn, then try it.  It could be that the pin holes were not machined concentric to the bore, in that case I would send it back if possible.  You also could re-drill the holes in the proper location.

I can't see the mark on the cam, but when the pins are properly adjusted, the mark should be between the ''V''s when the chuck is tight.


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## Falcon67 (Nov 4, 2014)

I've had the pins in and out several times, and set to several different heights with a caliper.  They only work - pull up/mate to the spindle cams- when the height is in the 1.27 ~ 1.29 range.


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## Falcon67 (Jun 16, 2015)

Sorry it's been a while since I updated this thread.  Not much doing with the lathe lately.  However, I got tired of messing with the supplied 6" 3 jaw and the plate.  I did get it mounted more or less by heating the plate which allowed it to mount flush to the spindle.  As you'd expect, if I wanted to change the chuck that required beating it off with a rubber mallet.  Best I got was around .010 and some of that is in the back plate.   The worse part is that the error got worse the farther out from the chuck you went.  I read up on grinding the chuck jaws and such.  Then a better idea came along - 20% coupon from Enco, a web sale price and a code for free shipping bought a nice 6" two piece 3 jaw direct mount unit that checks out at under .002 TIR.  Under $200 delivered.  Happy now.

The other 6" will work nice on a rotab on the mill.




If you look at the very bottom of the pic, there is a "chip pan".  That's a half sheet aluminum baking pan.  I stole that one from the kitchen but they have them in two packs at Sams and as I recall they are pretty cheap.  It fits under the lathe like it was made for it.  An inspiration formed while washing the pan at the sink.


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## zmotorsports (Jun 21, 2015)

Nice looking machine Chris.  I too bought one of those 6" 3-jaws on sale for my rotary table that I finally got around to machining a backing plate for and mounting up.

Mike.


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## Hotbluechips (Oct 15, 2015)

Falcon
When I was young, Abilene Dragstrip was at the end of north first street.
Cooldown was at the sonic. I have a belt drive Enco lathe, Good little lathe for home.


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## mike95376 (Dec 22, 2015)

I have this lathe too.  Mine is the older version that is shown in the Enco catalog picture.
It works pretty well.


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