# Difference between 7x, 8x or 9x Chinese Lathes



## ShagDog (Jun 27, 2020)

I am familiar with a 7x chinese mini lathes. I have never seen an 8x or 9x chinese lathe in person. Other than the obvious differences in swing, I am curious as to other differences. I know the 8x12 Harbor Freight lathe weighs around 250 lbs. while the 7x12 weighs around 90 lbs. The HF 8x12 is also around twice the price of the HF 7x12. 

Questions: 

1. Is the price difference worth it for the HF 8x?

2. I know that weight (mass) is your friend in a lathe. However, all that extra weight may do little if the cross slide and carriage and compound slide of the 8x and the 7x are similar in size and weight. How do the sizes of the HF 8x and 7x lathes compare?

3. Any other comparisons and contrasts that may be pertinent?


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 27, 2020)

the 8X and 9x are better constructed machines, more metal in them
the threading capabilities on the 8" was kinda impressive, the 9" not so much
i never got their 8 or 9 " but i did have the 7x12- it did it's purpose, but i had to make a whole bunch of quality control issues with my heap


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## markba633csi (Jun 27, 2020)

One thing people have mentioned is they either don't get all the gears for cutting threads or the gear set doesn't match the manual or the chart on the machine-  That is one important thing to check when considering one of these.
Little Machine Shop and Precision Matthews both have good reputations for service and parts.  Grizzly is a bit hit and miss, but many like them.
Not sure about Bolton.
Also, on the lathes (and mills) with electronic speed controls the circuit boards seem to fail frequently- fortunately there is a service that repairs these: www.olduhfguy.com
-Mark


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## Aaron_W (Jun 28, 2020)

I've fiddled with the HF 7x12 display models and wasn't impressed with their build quality. I have not laid hands on an 8x16 but from what I've read both in specs and peoples experience with them the 8x16 lathes are basically the same as the 7x scaled up, but more importantly better built. They also come with more tooling. I think the HF 8x12 is a completely different (and much cheaper) machine than the 8x16 sold by Grizzly and others.


Last year I picked up an Enco 9x20 for $300. It was in nice shape but missing some of the tooling they come with, including the change gears. It is basically the same lathe Grizzly, Busy Bee, Jet etc sells. In fact I've used parts I bought from Grizzly on mine. You will see them alternately listed as a 9x19 or a 9x20, that just comes down to whether they are sold with a (shorter) dead center or (longer) live center.

The 9x20 isn't a bad small lathe, but it does have some short comings mostly related to rigidity (it is only a 250lb lathe). There is a large active community of 9x20 users who have put together lots of modifications to improve these lathes. These lathes have been around for about 30 years, the basic design was copied from the Austrian Emco Compact 8.

The 7x and 8x are variable speed lathes, with the speed controlled by turning a knob. The 9x20 is a 6 speed lathe with the speed set by the position of the belt on the pulleys.  

In size the 8x lathes are actually 8-1/4", and the 9x20 are 8.75". Weight on the 8x16 is about 150lbs, the 9x20 250lbs.


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## atunguyd (Jun 28, 2020)

I have the Seig SC8 which is an 11x30 lathe I guess (specs are in metric).

I went from a 7x10 to this and it is a very big step up. The SC8 has a brushless 1500w motor. Built in gear box. X and Y power feed and weighs 500lbs

From what I gather Seig is the original Chinese small machine manufacturer and has the better quality of of them all.
I think they rebrand their lathes for places like Little Machine Shop. 

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk


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## ShagDog (Jun 28, 2020)

Thank's for the responses so far.


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## tech610 (Jun 28, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> The 7x and 8x are variable speed lathes, with the speed controlled by turning a knob. The 9x20 is a 6 speed lathe with the speed set by the position of the belt on the pulleys.
> 
> In size the 8x lathes are actually 8-1/4", and the 9x20 are 8.75". Weight on the 8x16 is about 150lbs, the 9x20 250lbs.


I have an HF 7X lathe. I bought it in 1999. After many mods it is still working fine for me, but I would swap it for a 6 speed 9x20 anytime. The electronic speed control is easy to blow up and expensive to replace. I may be wrong but I've heard that the newer versions of speed controls are not easy to repair.


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## Aaron_W (Jun 28, 2020)

tech610 said:


> I have an HF 7X lathe. I bought it in 1999. After many mods it is still working fine for me, but I would swap it for a 6 speed 9x20 anytime. The electronic speed control is easy to blow up and expensive to replace. I may be wrong but I've heard that the newer versions of speed controls are not easy to repair.



Yeah, I know lots of people make the 7x lathes work, some quite well. My reaction is just looking at the display models. Plastic handles, movement was sort of jerky and fit seems iffy at best. It is a display model so thousands of hands and who knows how much care the employee chosen to put it together gave, but I've fiddled with more than one in the stores, I have a thing for little lathes. If I find a used one in the $200 range it will come home with me.

All of these small lathes are built to a budget to be affordable to hobbyists, the 7x are just built to a much smaller budget. I think all have good bones to work with if you are willing to put the time and effort into them. That is actually a big part of why I grabbed the 9x20, it seemed like a fun project to make it better.


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## savarin (Jun 28, 2020)

I purchased my 9x20 in the understanding it was really a kit of parts that required a lot of work to fettle and get working well.
I enjoyed the journey and as it was the first lathe I ever owned I learnt heaps in the process.
To date heres what I have done (some might say butchered) to it so far.

indexing unit
reverse tumbler
cross slide handle
better worm
oilers and grooves  on cross slide
extra oilers on  saddle
extended cross slide travel
solid plinth
4 bolt clamp for tool post
axa tool post
er collet spindle chuck
vertical milling slide
extended splash guard
shelf for tool holders
cam lever saddle lock
new half nut lever
half nut dimples further apart on apron
lead screw brush
ball turner
Of course I would love a better larger lathe, mill, shaper, etc etc but costs do not allow this. 
I think the 9x20 is a lot of bang for the bucks but then I dont have any experience of anything else.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 29, 2020)

savarin said:


> I purchased my 9x20 in the understanding it was really a kit of parts that required a lot of work to fettle and get working well.
> 
> I think the 9x20 is a lot of bang for the bucks but then I dont have any experience of anything else.


you have done very well at that too, good Sir! 
you have a tenacity that is required to do very nice work


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## savarin (Jun 29, 2020)

Aw shucks Mike, dont forget I dont let on about all my stuffups.


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## hman (Jun 29, 2020)

Aw sucks, yourself, @savarin ... Boo-boos encountered on the way are nothing, compared to the quality of the final result.  And your results speak for themselves!  

Also,  as I've (delightedly) learned for myself, we're not working against a schedule.  So mistakes are doubly unimportant.


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## savarin (Jun 29, 2020)

hman said:


> Also,  as I've (delightedly) learned for myself, we're not working against a schedule.  So mistakes are doubly unimportant.


Ha Ha, aint that the truth.


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## ThinWoodsman (Jun 30, 2020)

savarin said:


> I purchased my 9x20 in the understanding it was really a kit of parts that required a lot of work to fettle and get working well.



About five years ago, I purchased a 7x lathe *without* that understanding, and having no experience with running a lathe (or a mill, for that matter) it almost turned me off the hobby completely. Fortunately, I went with some of the "get proper-sized machinery" advice, which proved well-founded: I built a shop, bought some decent-quality used machines, and couldn't be happier.

The 7x has been demoted to wood-lathe status. In time, I may get a proper wood lathe and use it only for grinding. I have toyed with the idea of making it a rigid and precise machine, and while that is a challenge, I am not sure it is worth the trouble.

I understand that a 7x is all that some people have room for, and that experienced owners can make better use of the thing than I initially could, and that for some the least expensive lathe is the only option. In my experience, however, I bought a proper lathe for slightly over double the cost of the 7x, not counting the outlay for the riggers of course. So, considerations of space and budget aside, I view the 7x, and possibly the 8x, import lathes as a waste of time and money.


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## Firstram (Jul 1, 2020)

I have a green 7x10 that I got from a friend who got it used in the 90's, it's serial # 184. Motor and controller were both shot. I think it was machined with a hammer and chisel. It was so bad you couldn't adjust slop out and have any travel on any axis.

Over the years I have upgraded everything
Treadmill motor, KB controller, jack shaft
Up graded the spindle to 4" 
Tapered roller bearings
1" extra travel cross slide
20 TPI lead screws
Ball bearings on cross, compound and carriage feeds
Camlock tailstock and compound
Moved feed direction and speed levers to front of machine
Scraped for contact and oil retention
Custom banjo for additional feed speed reduction

I'm sure there's more but you get the idea, it definitely was a kit.
Now I can take a .050 doc on aluminum.
It is my go to for small bushings and pins, but I'm glad I have a 1340 Jet for everything else!


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## silence dogood (Jul 3, 2020)

I have a Lathemaster 8x14.  Lathemaster does not sell lathes of mills anymore.  However HF sells the same machine but call it 8x12.  Yes, it is a much beefier machine  and can do a lot more than a 7".  You can get tooling from HF or LMS.  Grizzly has a 8" but weighs at 190lbs.  Little Machine Shop 8" weighs at 240lbs but at 500 bucks more.  Mine weighs at 260lbs, that's more than some 9".  Yeah, there are things other than weight, but mass and  how rigid  a machine is important.  I've had my lathe for about 10 years now.  This lathe is a plain Jane but tough and has served me well.  If I bought a 8" now, I'd most likely go for Little Machine Shop.


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## MillersvilleProf (Jul 8, 2020)

I have always found the 7" machines capable in good hands, but feel many folks have unrealistic expectations for them. I teach some machining classes at Millersville University and purchased eight of the LMS 7x16 lathes for my lab about four years ago. I use these along with five 13" Clausing Colchesters to teach the basics of metal turning. I also used Cummins 7x12" lathes when I taught at the University of North Dakota along with several Sherlines and had no problems with those either. My normal project for students is a small oscillating steam engine and students maintain the required tolerances with no problems.


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## Tom-C (Jul 31, 2020)

Hi,
I have a 8X16 Sieg SC4 that I got 10 years ago from Travers tool.  This is basically the same machine that Little Machine Shop sells.  The Sieg SC4 is the smallest machine I could find with power cross feed, and I use that a lot.  You cut a piece of round stock on the saw and the next step is into the lathe to true the ends.  It is not a lightweight at about 275 pounds, but it has done everything I have asked of it.  It sits on a Harbor Freight tool box with everything I need in the tool box.  QCTP and DRO have made a world of difference.


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## ShagDog (Jul 31, 2020)

Thread has been revived. As an update, I can now answer my own question; however, only as to an older 8x machine. I recently bought a used Select Lathe 816b with an 8 3/8" swing and 16" between centers. Weighs over 275 lbs. It is from around late 1970's or 1980, and made in Taiwan. Here is a thread dedicated to it: https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/select-816-b-lathe-acquired.32320/#post-342429

In any event, this lathe is like night and day in comparison to the 7x lathes I have tried. I really like this lathe. Thank's all for your input.


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## silence dogood (Sep 21, 2020)

ShagDog said:


> Thread has been revived. As an update, I can now answer my own question; however, only as to an older 8x machine. I recently bought a used Select Lathe 816b with an 8 3/8" swing and 16" between centers. Weighs over 275 lbs. It is from around late 1970's or 1980, and made in Taiwan. Here is a thread dedicated to it: https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/select-816-b-lathe-acquired.32320/#post-342429
> 
> In any event, this lathe is like night and day in comparison to the 7x lathes I have tried. I really like this lathe. Thank's all for your input.


Sounds like a real fine machine.  Would like to see some pictures.


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## ShagDog (Sep 21, 2020)

silence dogood said:


> Sounds like a real fine machine.  Would like to see some pictures.



Here you go. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/select-lathe-model-816b.85227/#post-765245

Also, some pictures in the above link that you quoted.


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## silence dogood (Sep 21, 2020)

Nice lathe, Mine  has lots of iron in it like yours. but it does not have the quick change gears like yours does.  The thing about going from a 7" to a 8" is like going from a Vespa to a Harley.


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## addertooth (Sep 22, 2020)

I realize you made your choice, but let me give a perspective on the 7 inch lathes for people who will be reading this much later.   I was a machinist for a living about 40 years ago.  I operated some seriously large pro-grade lathes.  They had massive 3 phase 480 50+ HP motors.  The vertical lathe I used had a 6 foot chuck on it.  I get it, BIG lathes are cool.  Even now, I see anything with a chuck smaller than 24 inches as petite.

The question of size often boils down to:
1. What kind of physical space do I have for a lathe: Desktop, free standing, room-consuming.
2. What kind of electrical power do I have available in my space: 110v, 220 single phase, 220 multi-phase, etc.
3. What is the largest item I will want to machine:  Be realistic about this one.  With skill, ambition frequently grows.
4. What features are most important to me: (Digital read out, metric and standard threads, variable speed, gear box with levers or changing physical gears, power feed for longitudinal and cross feed, horse power, variable speed brushed, variable speed brushless, etc.

In my case, I had little space, only 110V readily available, I was going to be working on air rifle mechanisms, antique pens, and tiny gizmos for additional hobbies. Long term upgradeability and available parts were also VERY important to me.  I plan on using it for a couple decades.  The important thing to remember is: over time, everything eventually breaks and needs parts.  Say what you will about the tiny 7 by X lathes, but they are pretty much everywhere, and have a well defined support mechanism for parts and upgrades. There are endless sources of how-to articles on upgrades for these tiny machines.

Now for the harsh reality, most small Chinese lathes (7/8/9 inch) kind of suck from the factory.  Almost all of them need a full disassembly, deburring, polishing, bearings and gibs enhanced, gibs adjusted, gear trains aligned, a lot of them need headstock and tailstock aligned to do precise work.  Not everyone is up to the task, and will simply choose to use them out of the box.  They may experience challenges in their use.  Usually those who buy the bigger ones have a bit more experience, they may have bought a smaller lathe and "outgrown" it.  As such, with their previous experience, they often get great results on larger lathes.  Newbies tend to gravitate to whatever lathe is inexpensive, as such it is difficult to rate their experiences (their lack of experience colors their outcomes).  It is uncommon for an old salt to say "all they need is a 7 by X lathe", the pool of very experienced people buying the smallest lathes is quite small. Many of the trouble reports come from inexperienced machinists, who frequently haven't tuned/upgraded their 7 inch lathes. Even worse, some have purchased someone's ancient/early troubled lathe for a song and a dance, not realizing that current manufacturing techniques on these lathes has improved. I too have seen some of the older ones which had rough-milled ways.  Many of the new ones now have nicely ground way surfaces; they are a different animal today.

Now let me bag a bit on 7 by X inch lathes.  If you are imagining you will be machining items which are 7 inches around... it is not likely to happen without an upgraded longer cross slide (and retracting the compound feed to gain more distance from your center line), AND a bigger chuck (which may require an adapter plate to mount it at additional cost).  If the motor is not 600 watts plus, you will be taking very tiny cuts on large diameters. Quite frankly, these smaller lathes are happiest with items that are about 2.5 inches around or smaller.  As for length, remember the measurement is sold as "center to center".  What it means in the practical sense, is a 16 inch lathe can't really machine (normally) a 16 inch long item.  With the tailstock pulled all the way back, and the quill retracted to the point that it is about to eject my live center, I get about 13.5 inches of space between the jaws of the chuck and the point of the live center.  I get even less distance if I need to drill the end of round stock (a drill chuck with a bit in it is MUCH longer than a live center). For items which are smaller than 3/4 inches in diameter, those will pass through the chuck and spindle, with a good spider on the backside of the spindle (to support it so it does not slap in the inside of the spindle), longer parts can be worked, such as a tube or the outer diameter of a barrel. Small lathes don't come with a spider, but you can buy them (or make them with a lathe and a drill press).  Summary: If you plan on working parts that are 4 to 7 inches in diameter, it is not practical on a 7 by X lathe.  If you are planning on doing long items which are larger in diameter than the hole in the spindle, it is not practical to do long parts, (get a bigger lathe, and be aware they may have  a reduction in working diameter and length as well; plan accordingly).

But, if you are only working petite parts, it may fit the bill nicely, once you have put in some sweat equity to make that tiny lathe hum.

Please note, my opinion is from practical use of a 7 by 16 Lathe.  It is bolstered from using much larger lathes in the past.


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