# Collet chuck for PM1030V lathe



## bbaley (Dec 4, 2018)

Hi all,
I have a PM-1030V lathe and am looking for a collet chuck.
Preferably 5C as I have a fair quantity of them (72 piece set)

I know PM has back plates available for the 1022/1030 (and also "unfinished" ones from places like Shar's etc)
https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1022v1030v-backplate
https://www.shars.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=unfinished+threaded+back+plate

My question is - does anyone have recommendations for SPECIFIC chucks they have used/like, which one's you do NOT like and why, etc. , ease or difficulty.


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## Alexander McGilton (Dec 5, 2018)

I presume that your lathe has too small of a spindle through hole for a draw tube so you may as well go for a keyed collet chuck like this one from shars. I can't offer any advise as far as quality as all the 5c collet chucks I have used thus far at school or work had been Hardinge.  
https://www.shars.com/products/workholding/lathe-chucks/5-fine-adjustable-5c-collet-chuck


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## MSD0 (Dec 6, 2018)

I have a Gator Tru Set 5C collet chuck that I ordered with my PM1127. Works well.


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## T Bredehoft (Dec 6, 2018)

I have Shars True set ER40 collet chuck for my [ordered] PM1022.  But you want a 5C.


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## starr256 (Dec 6, 2018)

I am using MT4 collets on my PM1030V. Can only take about 3" of stock inside the collet, as my draw bar is a threaded 5/8" rod. But, so far,  it works for me.


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## bbaley (Dec 6, 2018)

T Bredehoft said:


> I have Shars True set ER40 collet chuck for my [ordered] PM1022.  But you want a 5C.



The 5C wasn't a requirement per se - I just happen to have a set of 35 of them already.


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## bbaley (Dec 6, 2018)

starr256 said:


> I am using MT4 collets on my PM1030V. Can only take about 3" of stock inside the collet, as my draw bar is a threaded 5/8" rod. But, so far,  it works for me.



What tool holder/chuck is it ?


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## bbaley (Dec 6, 2018)

MSD0 said:


> I have a Gator Tru Set 5C collet chuck that I ordered with my PM1127. Works well.



What did you have to do for adapter plate ?


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## bbaley (Dec 6, 2018)

Alexander McGilton said:


> I presume that your lathe has too small of a spindle through hole for a draw tube so you may as well go for a keyed collet chuck like this one from shars. I can't offer any advise as far as quality as all the 5c collet chucks I have used thus far at school or work had been Hardinge.
> https://www.shars.com/products/workholding/lathe-chucks/5-fine-adjustable-5c-collet-chuck



Correct spindle bore is only 1" clearance


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## Nogoingback (Dec 6, 2018)

T Bredehoft said:


> I have Shars True set ER40 collet chuck for my [ordered] PM1022.  But you want a 5C.




What has your experience been with that Share chuck?  I'm thinking about ER collets for my lathe.


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## starr256 (Dec 6, 2018)

bbaley said:


> What tool holder/chuck is it ?



Here is a amazon listing for the collets. 
https://www.amazon.com/Morse-Taper-...8&qid=1544113119&sr=8-18&keywords=MT4+collets
Here is a picture of the draw bar. Straight forward and simple implementation.  The PM1030V has a MT4 spindle taper.


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## ttabbal (Dec 6, 2018)

Nogoingback said:


> What has your experience been with that Share chuck?  I'm thinking about ER collets for my lathe.




I have one as well, I've been very happy with it and the D1-4 adapter they also sell. It's adjustable like a 4-jaw with set screws on the sides, so you can dial it in to whatever tolerance you are willing to take the time to do. The taper is ground nicely and accurately based on my indicator and testing ground rod held in the Techniks collets I have. TIR is under half a thou, though I could likely do better now that I have a tenths indicator. 

There were some chips in the threads when I got it, I figure a bit of cleaning is the downside for the price. That's the only "bad" thing I've found with it.


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## MSD0 (Dec 6, 2018)

bbaley said:


> What did you have to do for adapter plate ?


 It was already fitted with one since I ordered it with my lathe.


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## bbaley (Dec 6, 2018)

MSD0 said:


> It was already fitted with one since I ordered it with my lathe.



ok -sorry I didn't see that item on PM website....


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## T Bredehoft (Dec 6, 2018)

Shars ER40 Tru-set collet.  Lathe is ordered, not yet delivered. I ordered a blank face plate to mount it on. 

I'm currently using an MT mounted ER40 on my Mk2 Clausing/Atlas lathe and am well satisfied with it, though I'm looking forward to the through-the-spindle feature of the new one.


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## MSD0 (Dec 6, 2018)

bbaley said:


> ok -sorry I didn't see that item on PM website....


I don’t think they offer it as an add on anymore.


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## bbaley (Dec 6, 2018)

T Bredehoft said:


> Shars ER40 Tru-set collet.  Lathe is ordered, not yet delivered. I ordered a blank face plate to mount it on.
> 
> I'm currently using an MT mounted ER40 on my Mk2 Clausing/Atlas lathe and am well satisfied with it, though I'm looking forward to the through-the-spindle feature of the new one.



ok thanks.
It seems in researching them that there are numerous advantages and disadvantages to both (5C and ER40) when comparing the two, but neither is a perfect solution. I expect - but no idea yet that the main issue or difference I will see will be the ER ability to grip a wider range of stock per collet size ? (and maybe less hold/grip on the 5C ?)

One of the things I was hoping would be "easy" with the 5C was to be able to have a collet stop for repeatability when making a quantity of parts. 

I am still researching which is how this post came to be. checking out my options.
The 5C are cheap enough that isn't forcing me to use them.


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## T Bredehoft (Dec 6, 2018)

I've examined the mounting of this (Shars) chuck, it seems possible that a screw-in stop could be installed behind the collet (and removed as needed) if one were so inclined. The throat behind the chuck is larger than the 1" bore of the spindle, perhaps a 1 1/16 or 1 1/8 thread could be built into the mounting plate and a threaded piece with an adjustable stop in it could be installed/removed. 

I've been using the ER40 collets for a couple of years, given the considerably wider  clamping range (one mm, not .005 for th 5C) the only disadvantage might be the difficulty of tightening/loosening the collet nut.


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## MSD0 (Dec 6, 2018)

bbaley said:


> ok thanks.
> It seems in researching them that there are numerous advantages and disadvantages to both (5C and ER40) when comparing the two, but neither is a perfect solution. I expect - but no idea yet that the main issue or difference I will see will be the ER ability to grip a wider range of stock per collet size ? (and maybe less hold/grip on the 5C ?)
> 
> One of the things I was hoping would be "easy" with the 5C was to be able to have a collet stop for repeatability when making a quantity of parts.
> ...


Not sure about ER collets, but I use collet stops on my 5C collets all the time. The one I have came with a solid stop and a spring loaded stop that ejects the part when the collet is opened.


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## mksj (Dec 7, 2018)

Tough call on this size machine. I have had several 5C chucks and made my own ER-40 chuck for D1-4 back plates. I would only advise a set-true/adjustable type, my experience with the non-adjustable ones (both 5C and ER-40) is the TIR was terrible on most chucks . There are some work arounds, but the cost of  difference of getting a set-true is now not so great.   There has been some prior extensive postings on the pros/cons of the different collets, but I will address your comments above.

Please be aware the ER collets are designed to hold round cutter shafts along the full length of the collet, not shorter length stock. This is because the collet collapses from both sides in the chuck. It provides superior holding power to 5C collets which only collapse at the tip of the collet. The advantage of 5C is you can hold very short stock at the tip of the collet, like 1/4" with a short stick out length. You cannot do this with an ER collet unless you put a short piece of stock (the same diameter) at the back end of the collet. Although 5C has less holding power it is sufficient in most cases. The only time I have had an issue has been with threading round stock and have it slightly twist in the 5C collet.

ER collets are inherently more accurate when it comes to TIR in the chuck, but there are many factors. The 5C collet does have a very limited clamping range, even with that if you are a little over or under relative to the collet size the TIR will be significant and you can get skewwing of the piece. Even with a full set of 1/64th increment 5C collets you will have gaps. ER has a wider clamping range, many people get a mm increment set with the premises that the clamping range is 1 mm (0.04"), but my experience and what others have posted with both ER-32 and ER-40 collets is that a 1 mm increment does not do so well at the clamping extremes. I ended up with a 1/32" (0.03") increment ER-40 set which will be much closer to the imperial rod sizes I would be using. Some of the ER collets may be for a given diameter tooling with a narrower clamping range. If I am holding a metric shaft, I typically use a metric ER collet unless there is a close imperial equivalant.

A 5C collet closure is not an option with a small spindle bore. It might be possible to use a 5C collet stop that thread into the back of the collet if the back plate hole is enlarged, you can also use a through the spindle stop system, I use both. A through the spindle stop would be used for the ER system. A 5C chuck would require a key to thread the collets, so it can be a slow process to get the collet in/out, I use a speed handle and it takes about 40 seconds to change out a 5C collet. An ER system can be a bit cumbersome due to the wrenches/rod to secure the chuck and remove the nut. The ER collet needs to be snapped into the nut before putting it in the chuck. So time wise between the two, they are both slow. A 5C chuck will be quite a bit heavier and have more stick out (length)  vs. and ER chuck. This may be more of a factor on a smaller lathe.

Cost wise, ER-40 will be less expensive for the chuck and collets. My preference between the two is to 5C, but I have a full 1/64th collet set (and I have used almost all of them). I also turn a lot of short stock pieces, with a lot of repeat machining where I may need to chuck up the piece 6-8 times between turning, drilling and tapping (and also doing a dozen of these parts at a time). Try that with an ER system and I think you would go nuts quickly. I use the ER-40 for longer stock, holding odd size stock that doesn't fit a 5C collet and sometimes for holding threaded rod securely.

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/er40-vs-5c-collets-accuracy-in-a-lathe.57438/
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...ne-adjustment-collet-chuck.66421/#post-572356
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...f-a-d1-4-er40-set-tru-adjustable-chuck.62816/


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## bbaley (Dec 7, 2018)

mksj said:


> Cost wise, ER-40 will be less expensive for the chuck and collets. My preference between the two is to 5C, but I have a full 1/64th collet set (and I have used almost all of them). I also turn a lot of short stock pieces, with a lot of repeat machining where I may need to chuck up the piece 6-8 times between turning, drilling and tapping (and also doing a dozen of these parts at a time). Try that with an ER system and I think you would go nuts quickly. I use the ER-40 for longer stock, holding odd size stock that doesn't fit a 5C collet and sometimes for holding threaded rod securely.
> 
> Thank you mksj for the extensive write-up !
> 
> ...


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## bretthl (Dec 8, 2018)

I like Joe Pi's video discussing pros and cons of a few collet styles -


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