# 8520? 8525?



## 34_40

I just came home with a Clausing mill,  p.o. says it's a 8525 and it uses a M.T. 2 collet, but I read that a 8525 should be using a Brown & Sharpe 7....   is there someway to verify (easily) the quill setup?  Maybe a measurement or two?

it also has a new 120 volt 1 hp motor and the draw bar is the push to release type.

So, I have a bunch to learn and I'll snap some pics to share with you...  I also have to sell an Atlas H.M. now...  what an upgrade!:lmao:


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## Terrywerm

That information is correct. The 8520 and 8530 used MT2, while the 8525 and 8535 used B&S #7 taper. Mine uses MT2 and is an 8520. So far I have a full set of collets for it, a drill chuck, and four end mill holders, 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", and 3/4". Mine is missing the pushout nut for the drawbar so I will have to make one of those along with a new drawbar. It is currently using a long 3/8" bolt which works okay, but the pushout feature would be really nice. I still need to find a boring head for it and have obtained a set of bevel gears so that I can build a right angle attachment for the spindle.

As for determining which taper you have, do you have any MT2 tooling for a lathe??  If so, test the fit of an MT2 center in the spindle of the mill. If it wants to stay on its own, then your spindle is MT2. If it does not fit well, and will not tend to stick in the spindle on its own, then you have a B&S #7 spindle.  That's about the only way I know to check as both types of collet use the same 3/8"-16 thread on the drawbar.


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## 34_40

Thanks TW!  I hope to make some time this weekend and "play" with it some.   I do have some other MT2 pieces so I'll try them and report back.

I'll also take my camera to the shop and snap a few pics..  I saw on another post you mentioned that you needed pics or info of the pushout draw bar, if this is still true I would be obliged to help in anyway I can!  Just holler if you need them!


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## Terrywerm

Thanks for the offer on the pics, they would certainly be valuable, especially if someone else is in the same boat. 

I have already engineered one of my own and have it all drawn up, now I just need to make the parts. But, photos of yours before I get started would be great, just in case I need to make any changes.

Thank you!


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## Andre

The bottom of this article explains how to check for MT2 or BS7

http://bridgeport.askmisterscience.com/colletproblem.htm


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## 34_40

Andre said:


> The bottom of this article explains how to check for MT2 or BS7
> 
> http://bridgeport.askmisterscience.com/colletproblem.htm



Thanks for that Andre!  I'll be sure to check this out!

TW, I owe you another thanks... )   I was reading your description of the drill handle operation and the fine handwheel operation and knew that mine isn't working right, so I dis-assembled and it was a good thing too as everything was dirty and dry - no lube anywhere!  I found the collar that should push in / pull out to be bottomed out and the setscrew tightened in the wrong position!  So I dis-assembled it further, cleaned and polished the shaft and got everything working smoothly!  So thanks for that!!

I did find a couple of BS7 attachments but with the pushbar in place they won't go in far enough.?.?.?  So I'll read some more and re-investigate.

TW, I did get some general pics today, I'll get some of the pushbar parts tomorrow..

til then.


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## Terrywerm

Thanks for the pics. I see that yours came with the original Clausing vise, as did mine.  That rotary table you got is huge though.

Good job on the quick fix to the fine feed, glad to hear that yours is in good shape. Just keep in mind that if you use the fine feed, don't over do it. Those brass gears are really easy to strip out.


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## 34_40

Thanks Again TW!  I'll grab some pics of the pushbar in the morning and post'em about dinner time..

I see in my other thread (in the Atlas forum) regarding belts / link belts..   you mention that you kept the numbers for the drive belts.
Could I ask you to share the part numbers?  The belt from the motor is to short on mine and I'm not certain it's the right width either..

I think the final drive belt is fine, but between the two of them, speed selection is way more dificult than it needs to be!  TIA!.. )


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## Terrywerm

34_40 said:


> Thanks Again TW!  I'll grab some pics of the pushbar in the morning and post'em about dinner time..
> 
> I see in my other thread (in the Atlas forum) regarding belts / link belts..   you mention that you kept the numbers for the drive belts.
> Could I ask you to share the part numbers?  The belt from the motor is to short on mine and I'm not certain it's the right width either..
> 
> I think the final drive belt is fine, but between the two of them, speed selection is way more dificult than it needs to be!  TIA!.. )




Sure!  But I can only share them after you are sworn to absolute secrecy. If these numbers fall into the wrong hands, well, anything could happen!!   :rofl:

The primary drive is a Gates Tru-Flex 2220    (industry number 4L220)   1/2" wide, 22" long
The secondary drive is a Gates Tru-Flex 2480    (industry number 4L480)   1/2" wide, 48" long

Fifteen bucks should buy you both belts at your local hardware store, tax included.  Six feet of link belt would run you about $60, four times the price of regular vee belts. Kind of a no brainer, ain't it??   No offense to you fans of the link-belts, but many things with my hobby are related to economics. The $45 I save on the belts can be used to buy raw materials for projects or other tooling instead!


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## 34_40

terrywerm said:


> Sure!  But I can only share them after you are sworn to absolute secrecy. If these numbers fall into the wrong hands, well, anything could happen!!   :rofl:
> 
> The primary drive is a Gates Tru-Flex 2220    (industry number 4L220)   1/2" wide, 22" long
> The secondary drive is a Gates Tru-Flex 2480    (industry number 4L480)   1/2" wide, 48" long



HMMMmmmm..  looks like it's my secondary belt that is too short!  That primary belt number matches up with mine.. 
Again, thanks for the help!:man:


ps.. I've jotted down the numbers on a piece of scratch paper (which I'll swallow after memorizing the numbers!) but in my cryptic chicken scratch handwriting, 
I think we're safe from discovery!! :nuts: ) :jester:


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## Terrywerm

Here is something that you will find useful, namely a link to the downloads section with two PDFs covering the Clausing 8520/8525 mills.  One is a scan of the original owner's manual/parts list, the other is a document created by one of our members on rebuilding the head of one of these mills.  Both valuable to have.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/vbdownloads.php?categoryid=43

PS: The belt sizes are listed right in the parts listing drawings, which is where I got the correct ones in the first place. My mill did not have the correct belts on it when I got it, plus one of the bearings in the jackshaft pulley was junk, and the other was probably not far behind. I ordered replacement bearings from McMaster-Carr and picked up the belts at the local hardware store.  Mine also has four teeth stripped off of one of the fine feed gears, and I plan to make a replacement in the not too distant future.  The handle was also missing from the brake on mine, so I made a new handle for it and picked up a simple plastic knob at the hardware store downtown.

I also just noticed that the brake handle and possibly the brake cam shaft are missing from yours. Let me know if that is the case and I can either make one and send it to you or I can dimension it out, draw it up, and send you the drawing so you can make your own.


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## 34_40

terrywerm said:


> The handle was also missing from the brake on mine, so I made a new handle for it and picked up a simple plastic knob at the hardware store downtown.
> I also just noticed that the brake handle and possibly the brake cam shaft are missing from yours. Let me know if that is the case and I can make one and send it to you.



Hey, Thanks for that link! That could be invaluable info right there!  I already downloaded it and will print it and keep it with the machine.

BRAKE? Didn't know there was one! anic:    YIKES!   I guess we'll have to do some investigation and see what is really missing and what's there..  If you can whip up some parts? I'd be grateful and certainly pay you for the time / materials! 

Here's some pics of the drawbar and I'm hopeful ya'll can read my chicken scratch writing! :roflmao:


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## Terrywerm

Thanks for the photos and the measurements!  It is very close to what I had designed here.

I'll be happy to make up the part for you, but you had better look up inside and make sure that the brake is there, if it is not, the cam and lever will not do you much good. The brake is referred to as a 'plate' #556-022  and two other 'plates'  #556-021      The brake cam shaft sits between the two small plates, pushing them out when the cam shaft is turned. This in turn expands the braking plate against the inside of the pulley, quickly bringing the spindle to a stop.

The camshaft is a pretty straightforward part to make, but needs to be hardened to keep it from wearing away from normal use.  I'll pop mine out, dimension it and draw it up so that I can make you one, provided that the braking plate is present on your machine. I can see  from the photos that the camshaft and handle are missing, but one needs to look up inside to see the braking plate.

Let me know what you find. If you have any questions, I'll take a photo of mine so you can see what I'm talking about.


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## 34_40

terrywerm said:


> Thanks for the photos and the measurements!  It is very close to what I had designed here.
> 
> I'll be happy to make up the part for you, but you had better look up inside and make sure that the brake is there, if it is not, the cam and lever will not do you much good. The brake is referred to as a 'plate' #556-022  and two other 'plates'  #556-021      The brake cam shaft sits between the two small plates, pushing them out when the cam shaft is turned. This in turn expands the braking plate against the inside of the pulley, quickly bringing the spindle to a stop.
> 
> The camshaft is a pretty straightforward part to make, but needs to be hardened to keep it from wearing away from normal use.  I'll pop mine out, dimension it and draw it up so that I can make you one, provided that the braking plate is present on your machine. I can see  from the photos that the camshaft and handle are missing, but one needs to look up inside to see the braking plate.
> 
> Let me know what you find. If you have any questions, I'll take a photo of mine so you can see what I'm talking about.



Yeah, I'll have to have a look inside, that link you provided earlier is going to come in handy already!   I also notice that the data plate is missing also.. sheesh!

On a good note tho'...  I did run a new circuit over and fabbed a couple bolts to hold the vice in place - chucked an end mill and turned a small piece of aluminum into chips!  No real big deal but it's a beginning!  :victory:



As always, Thanks for the help!


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## Terrywerm

When you have the front cover off to change the secondary drive belt, look up under the pulley on the spindle. If it's hollow, your brake plate is missing. If you find a plate there that is free to move around a bit, and has two ears sticking out of one side, that is your brake plate.

Congrats on making some chips with it!


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## 34_40

It's back to work.. so I may have some time this evening to investigate..  Back with more later..


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## 34_40

I'm hoping to make some time to look into the Brake Mechanism tonite..  

But I was thinking, I'll need some hold downs / step blocks etc. etc. etc....   Is there a kit that's preferred? I'm unsure of the size(s)  and I see some on Ebay.. I know they are import but are they okay?

Any opinions are welcomed!

(TW, are you and I the only ones that come in here?  I mean besides Mods!?!?) :lmao:


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## 34_40

TW, I did remove the front cover and indeed the "cam" and handle mechanism is gone but the brake mechanism is in place!
Looks like numbers 700-026 "Shaft"  and 8540-93 "Ball Handle Assy."

So let's talk about re-creating one okay? )


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## Terrywerm

No problem. I will send you a PM about it.


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## 34_40

Been real quiet in here as of late so I thought I'd post an update.  I did do some shopping and purchased 2 hold down kits, 1 in 3/8" studs and another in 1/2" studs.   I got them both from Enco as they were running a special.


Got your PM's TW and looking forward to seeing the cam setup re-created for the brake.  the other thing I need to do is come up with a tram setup.  Need to get the head squared up with confidence.


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## 34_40

HMMMmm...  still to quiet...)

I've been searching for a drill chuck.  Seems an obvious thing to have with a vertical mill I think.  I don't know if one was available originally but it seems that to have one now I'll need to purchase the components to assemble one. 

I see a shank in mt2 with 3/8 - 16 and it has (I assume a taper to accept) a chuck,  some are keyless.

Has any one tried this arrangement?  Does it work well?   Or is a threaded chuck better?   Any opinions are welcome.  TIA


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## Uglydog

34_40 said:


> I've been searching for a drill chuck. .... I see a shank in mt2 with 3/8 - 16 and it has (I assume a taper to accept) a chuck,  some are keyless. Has any one tried this arrangement?  Does it work well?   Or is a threaded chuck better?   Any opinions are welcome.  TIA



I don't know anything about Clausings. 

However, In my Cincy Toolmaster I run an Albrecht 1/2 with MT2, and am looking for a Cincy MT3 so I can run the Wahstrom I already have. While I have a Jacobs with a 3/4 straight shaft, I try to move the larger and certainly the bread and butter drilling to my Walker Turner 1100 Drill Press.  

Regardless, I've to had any trouble with slippage with either system. Understand that my Cincy uses a collet nut instead of a drawbar.


Daryl
MN


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## 34_40

Thanks for the reply, The question stands tho, is the tapered chuck "secure" enough for most drilling jobs?  
And while I do have a drill press (Delta) ,  there will be times when a setup is complete in the mill and it would be easier and better to have the tools to add a hole instead of moving to the drill press. 



Uglydog said:


> I don't know anything about Clausings.
> 
> However, In my Cincy Toolmaster I run an Albrecht 1/2 with MT2, and am looking for a Cincy MT3 so I can run the Wahstrom I already have. While I have a Jacobs with a 3/4 straight shaft, I try to move the larger and certainly the bread and butter drilling to my Walker Turner 1100 Drill Press.
> 
> Regardless, I've to had any trouble with slippage with either system. Understand that my Cincy uses a collet nut instead of a drawbar.
> 
> Daryl
> MN


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## JimDawson

I assume your spindle is a MT2. I always prefer a taper on the chuck end of the adapter, screwed on chucks can unscrew if you need to run in reverse, like tapping operations.  I have had only one slip in about 50 years machining.  I don't know what taper is the best on the chuck end, they all seem to work just fine.


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## 34_40

Thanks Jim.  That adds a lot of confidence.  I've probably (in the past) used the discussed chuck and never even realized it before!  
Never had to think about it!  :thinking:

And you raise a good point about the reverse operation and unthreading!  Thanks for taking the time and replying! )



JimDawson said:


> I assume your spindle is a MT2. I always prefer a taper on the chuck end of the adapter, screwed on chucks can unscrew if you need to run in reverse, like tapping operations.  I have had only one slip in about 50 years machining.  I don't know what taper is the best on the chuck end, they all seem to work just fine.


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## Terrywerm

The taper on the chuck end is usually a Jacobs Taper, or JT.  There are several different ones, each with its own number, as in the chart on Wikipedia on this page:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_taper

Note that the sizes are not in order from smallest to largest, but are placed in numerical order.

Drill chuck arbors will usually have two sizes, one for the machine taper, such as MT2, and one for the drill chuck taper, such as JT33 for example. 

Enco, for example has them available in their catalog on this page: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=476&PMCTLG=00

The one thing that you need to remember though is that for your mill you want an arbor that does not have a tang on it. Instead you need one for a drawbar with 3/8"-16 thread. If I remember correctly you had determined that your Clausing mill spindle is set up for a #2 Morse Taper.


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## 34_40

You are correct TW, it is a MT2 (8520) Collect and I have found a few units setup for the MT2 w\ 3/8"-16 drawbar and a JT33 mounted chuck.

Thanks for the reply!


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## Terrywerm

Don't ever rely on the drawbar size and thread though....   B&S #7 taper uses the same drawbar as MT2, namely 3/8"-16.    Just thought it might be a good idea to point that  out for those that don't know.



34_40 said:


> You are correct TW, it is a MT2 (8520) Collect and I have found a few units setup for the MT2 w\ 3/8"-16 drawbar and a JT33 mounted chuck.
> 
> Thanks for the reply!




Those would be the ones you need!   Have fun shopping.


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## 34_40

terrywerm said:


> Those would be the ones you need!   Have fun shopping.



I ALWAYS have fun shopping for tooling! :roflmao:


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## 34_40

Haven't written much of anything in this thread for awhile...   Just this weekend I ordered a set of collets from tools 4 cheap..   I don't believe they were the cheapest but they're sort of local to me so I like to give a preference for those vendors. 


Maybe Terryworm has some news on the brake cam??   

Well, stay cool and look forward to hearing from you all.


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## Terrywerm

Actually I haven't had the chance to do anything with it over the last few weeks. We've been super busy at work, gone most  of the week every week for the last while now. Later this week I will be heading out of town with my dad for a couple of weeks. He wants to travel and go see his sister, but he can no longer travel alone, so we're making an adventure trip out of it, four wheeling in Moab and in the San Juans, some hiking in Canyonlands and Arches, even white water rafting on the Arkansas before we return home.  I do have stock on hand for making the brake cam, but it's going to be a few weeks now before I can even think about working on it. I expect that it should only take a couple of hours or so to make it and the handle, and I was hoping to have it done before now, but luck has not been with me when it comes to spare time. I do have it on the top of my list, however, so it will be the first thing I work on once I can get back in the shop.


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## wa5cab

3MT and R8 (after the fact correction - not R8 which is 7/16"-20) also commonly uses 3/8"-16 drawbar thread.

Robert D.



terrywerm said:


> Don't ever rely on the drawbar size and thread though....   B&S #7 taper uses the same drawbar as MT2, namely 3/8"-16.    Just thought it might be a good idea to point that  out for those that don't know.


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## Terrywerm

wa5cab said:


> 3MT and R8 also commonly use 3/8"-16 drawbar thread.
> 
> Robert D.



Funny, the last R8 collets I looked at all had 7/16-20 thread.  3MT does use 3/8-16, but the Clausing 85xx series of mills were never offered with 3MT or R8, the spindle is simply not large enough.


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## 34_40

Thanks for the update TW..   Have a great time in your travels and enjoy the time with family!

I'm in no rush, nothing pressing.


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## wa5cab

TW,

Oops.  You're right.  I was thinking about some milling cutter holders that I have and wrote R8 by mistake.  Retroactive correction added.

Robert D.


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## Terrywerm

No problem, Robert. I figured that you meant something else (I do that all the time) or else maybe you had been partying without us. :drink2:



I just didn't want someone else looking at their R8 collets and drawbar and then wondering what was wrong.  :headscratch:


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## wa5cab

Yah.  About the only advantage to being a moderator is that you can correct your mistakes retroactively.:whiteflag: 		  

Robert D.


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## 34_40

HMmmmm.. didn't know it was possible.. Your posts are always the most factual and knowledgeable.. :allgood:    Just teasin'! :man:



wa5cab said:


> Yah.  About the only advantage to being a moderator is that you can correct your mistakes retroactively.:whiteflag:
> 
> Robert D.


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## wa5cab

The original poster has edit access to his/her posts for a brief period after save/send (I've forgotten whether it is 30 or 60 minutes).  Moderators have indefinite edit access.  Which is handy for me as I have been known to write something that 10 minutes or 10 hours later even I couldn't figure out what I meant.  One of the advantages of a bulletin board over a reflector is that posts are permanently accessible.  But one of the disadvantages of bulletin boards is also that incorrect posts are permanently accessible.  So if someone writes something as fact that they later discover is incorrect, we can if asked go back and correct it.

Robert D.


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## JimDawson

wa5cab said:


> The original poster has edit access to his/her posts for a brief period after save/send (I've forgotten whether it is 30 or 60 minutes).
> 
> Robert D.




We normal members have 1440 minutes (24 hr) to edit our posts.


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## wa5cab

OK.  One of the updates must have significantly increased it since I became abnormal.  :whistle:

Robert D.


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## 34_40

I "did" know that an o.p. could edit his/her own post(s) to fix a mistake..  I "didn't" know the length of time tho'..

I thought I'd have a bit of fun with Robert, who always seems to have the most factual and knowledgable answers..


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## 34_40

I haven't done much with my mill over the summer, I did do a couple of small slotting operations in some motor brackets for my street rod and I did get a boring head and a sine bar..  The boring head was purchased from Enco on one of their 20% specials, an import tool but the reviews were very good so I went for it.  The sine bar was a gift from a machinist friend, a tool he made back in his vocational h.s. days.  I'm becoming a tool hound so I was glad to have it! :lmao:

I thought I'd ask if I was still top of the list...  not rushing you! Not much happening...  just curious is all!



terrywerm said:


> Actually I haven't had the chance to do anything with it over the last few weeks. We've been super busy at work,   I do have stock on hand for making the brake cam, but it's going to be a few weeks now before I can even think about working on it. I expect that it should only take a couple of hours or so to make it and the handle, and I was hoping to have it done before now, but luck has not been with me when it comes to spare time. I do have it on the top of my list, however, so it will be the first thing I work on once I can get back in the shop.


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## Terrywerm

No problem, glad you spoke up. I was just looking at the drawing for that part a couple of days ago and commented to myself that I have to get that part made and sent off to you. I am finally nearing the end of my busy schedule, with this weekend being the last one that is booked up. I should be able to make your brake cam by next weekend if nothing blows up on me in the coming days.


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## 34_40

Wow, that's great!  I'm glad the timing worked out for me this time.


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## JPigg55

34_40 said:


> Maybe Terryworm has some news on the brake cam??
> 
> Well, stay cool and look forward to hearing from you all.



Here's a couple links for general info on your mill as well as other machines. http://www.lathes.co.uk/index.html
Here's the sub-link for Clausing mills. http://www.lathes.co.uk/clausing%20vertical/
Terry is correct about those fine feed gears, mine were stripped out when I gotit. Lucky for me, I'd found another complete head on eBay I had bought too as a"Just in Case" since I knew from research that parts were hard tocome by and the gears were good in that one, just swapped them out.
I'll be watching this thread too since my brake doesn't work. I haven'tdissassembled mine to see what's wrong with it yet.
Terry, what's your opinion on having an operational brake beyond fast stops forsafety reasons ? Any other use for it you've came across ?
BTW:
Terry, I mightbe convinced to part with the spare drawbar if you desire.


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## 34_40

Thanks for the reply JP..   My fine feed gears are fine (no pun intended!)  :roflmao:

I think the best thing about having the brake mechanism working will be getting mills and bits out of the collets.  Right now I have to hang onto the secondary drive belt, squeeze both "sides" together to capture the pulley then turn the drawbar nut.  It's do-able but "clunky" and I have to watch out that I don't get oils on the belt with my hand.

Oh and thanks for the links. Already had'em but it's nice to know others are willing to share!


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## Bill Gruby

JPigg55 said:


> Here's a couple links for general info on your mill as well as other machines. http://www.lathes.co.uk/index.html
> Here's the sub-link for Clausing mills. http://www.lathes.co.uk/clausing%20vertical/
> Terry is correct about those fine feed gears, mine were stripped out when I gotit. Lucky for me, I'd found another complete head on eBay I had bought too as a"Just in Case" since I knew from research that parts were hard tocome by and the gears were good in that one, just swapped them out.
> I'll be watching this thread too since my brake doesn't work. I haven'tdissassembled mine to see what's wrong with it yet.
> Terry, what's your opinion on having an operational brake beyond fast stops forsafety reasons ? Any other use for it you've came across ?
> BTW:
> Terry, I mightbe convinced to part with the spare drawbar if you desire.




 If Terry doesn't want the Draw Bar, I would be interested.

 "Billy G"


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## Terrywerm

I will definitely take the drawbar. We'll work out the details on PM.

The brake is necessary for tightening and loosening the drawbar so that you can change tooling.


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## Terrywerm

Started a new thread for the brake cam:  http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...handle-for-Clausing-8520-8525-8530-8535-mills


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## 34_40

Of course you know I'll be watching..!!..!!   Now that I know the secret handshake!:rubbinghands:


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