# Cutting large lead ingots



## brasssmanget (Oct 31, 2017)

I inherited 4 blocks of lead counterbalance weights recently. They are approx: 5" x 16" x 16". I need to find a way to cut them into manageable size blocks for melting down at some point in the future. I've seen videos of chainsaw cutting, but that scares me a little. I could drill 1000 holes and press break them into smaller blocks, but that seems like an awful lot of work. I think a band saw would plug up pretty quickly??

Not sure of any mix in the lead - it is pretty soft, but I'm sure there is some other mixture with it. Any ideas on cutting them??


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## David S (Oct 31, 2017)

I know this may seem crude...well I guess it is, but could you just take an axe and chop hunks off?

David


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## chips&more (Oct 31, 2017)

Log splitter


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## woodchucker (Oct 31, 2017)

Band saw with big teeth  3 to 4 TPI and slow feed rate.
I think it will go through.


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## RJSakowski (Oct 31, 2017)

I have used an axe in the past.  That can be rather iffy if you aren't too accurate with your swing though.  I would suggest using a power wood splitter.  Place the lead ingot on a block of wood.  The splitter should make a quick job of it.  No dust either.

edit: I see that Chips and more beat me to the post button!


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## whitmore (Oct 31, 2017)

Shot tower.   There's nothing more convenient than shot, if you ever want to measure out a pound at a time.
You'll want some altitude, a funnel under the melt zone, and a barrel of water waiting below.


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## retrojoe (Oct 31, 2017)

Mason's chisel (2" or 3" wide) and a 3 lbs hammer.


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## retrojoe (Oct 31, 2017)

Mason's chisel (2" or 3" wide) and a machinist's hammer.


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## kvt (Oct 31, 2017)

if you have a large metal funnel,  and a torch.  you could do what my dad did.   PUt the led on a grate,   over the large funnel.   Stand with wind to your back, and then melt into pieces, and the melted stuff went down the funnel into a mold.   He use to get 100 to 150 lb blocks of lead that were used for weights in the back of things during the winter to keep them on the road and help hold them down while plowing.   Then in the spring it made other things out of them or mad lead bars and sold them.


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## brasssmanget (Oct 31, 2017)

Thanks. Chiseling is out - my arm is a total wreck in the elbow so swinging a hammer is not an option. I have a 20 ton press here, but not sure if it would be powerful enough. Besides, getting the blocks on the press is also an issue. Log splitter might be the best option so far......


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## CluelessNewB (Oct 31, 2017)

If you go with the log splitter a video might be fun.


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## Silverbullet (Oct 31, 2017)

Bandsaw works


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## Robert LaLonde (Oct 31, 2017)

chips&more said:


> Log splitter



I concur.  Little to no lead dust this way.  I cut smaller 5lb bars in a vise with a magnetic vise brake for that reason.  I refuse to use a power saw.  No way I want to be throwing lead dust around like that.


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## francist (Oct 31, 2017)

If indeed the size is 5" x 16" x 16" as the OP says, that's just under 525 pounds per slab in lead. Something to think about.

-frank


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## 4GSR (Oct 31, 2017)

A hot knife?


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## savarin (Oct 31, 2017)

I have successfully melted off the amount I needed with a gas torch into the crucible.
Admittedly the blocks were only 25Kg but it was reasonably quick.


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## pdentrem (Oct 31, 2017)

Band saw with lube otherwise torch. This is the way I do it at work.
Pierre


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## epanzella (Oct 31, 2017)

brasssmanget said:


> Thanks. Chiseling is out - my arm is a total wreck in the elbow so swinging a hammer is not an option. I have a 20 ton press here, but not sure if it would be powerful enough. Besides, getting the blocks on the press is also an issue. Log splitter might be the best option so far......


The 20 ton press would work but a log splitter cuts lead like butter and does it fast.


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## brasssmanget (Nov 1, 2017)

Thanks! I think my course of action is to get these cut into smaller blocks and proceed from there. I'm going to look around for a log splitter rental first. These things are not liftable by one person. Not 500lbs, but easily over 200lbs.....


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## ericc (Nov 1, 2017)

I once did a magnesium fire demo.  The pieces were cut off a large block with a striker and a handled hot cut held by the master smith.  This tool will sink right in to a couple inches of hot steel.


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## Robert LaLonde (Nov 1, 2017)

brasssmanget said:


> Thanks! I think my course of action is to get these cut into smaller blocks and proceed from there. I'm going to look around for a log splitter rental first. These things are not liftable by one person. Not 500lbs, but easily over 200lbs.....



Pure lead is pretty close to .41 pounds per cubic inch.  If they are in the 200lb range you have some really garbage alloy.


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## Eddyde (Nov 1, 2017)

If no access to log splitter, I have used a sawzall (reciprocating saw) on lead with a corse tooth blade, never as thick as 5" but it should work well. Don't worry too much about "dust" as it will produce small granular chips, nothing that would go airborne. If you work over a tarp or similar you can contain the chips and avoid contamination of the work area. Wear gloves and keep the blade for lead only. Also be sure to wear a respirator with metal fume cartridges when melting lead.


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## Robert LaLonde (Nov 1, 2017)

Eddyde said:


> If no access to log splitter, I have used a sawzall (reciprocating saw) on lead with a corse tooth blade, never as thick as 5" but it should work well. Don't worry too much about "dust" as it will produce small granular chips, nothing that would go airborne. If you work over a tarp or similar you can contain the chips and avoid contamination of the work area. Wear gloves and keep the blade for lead only. Also be sure to wear a respirator with metal fume cartridges when melting lead.



That's funny.  I work with a lot of guys who melt lead, and unless you are getting a lot higher than normal working temperatures there are almost no lead fumes.  Lead dust and exposure from handling and improper hygiene are the big risks.  Smoking, eating, drinking, and rubbed off lead or lead dust inhalation are the primary vectors.  You can also get lead poisoning form lead in water tanks that were soldered with lead solder.  It is very slightly water soluble over a long time.  Yes, it happened.  Right here in Yuma.  Numerous cases, and the company that did it is justifiably out of business.  If you would like talk to Chris Newgren on Tackle Underground.  He goes by the handle of kasilofchrisn over there.  He was in the lead business for a while. 

I hear the fumes thing all the time, but I have not been able to find any documentation that fumes are a real risk unless you are WAY overheating your lead.  It melts around 621F and pours nicely depending on the exact alloy from 700-850F (850 is the max temp on my lead pot).  I did find one source that made this claim, * "When lead is molten, it releases minute amounts of vapors at a progressive rate as temperatures are increased. Harmful levels of lead vaporization are believed to occur at elevated temperatures above 1800 degrees (F)."   According to ** Wikipedia the boil point of lead is 3180 °F, so if the other source is correct.  It possible its releasing some harmful vapor at less than the boiling point, but its more than twice the working temperatures unless maybe you are melting it with a torch.  There is also and interesting old discussion on the subject over at *** Cast Boolits, or if you want you can read the **** MSDS on lead and get really confused.  LOL. Seriously just about everybody thinks lead dust and contact ingestion or inhalation of dust is the big risk.  There are some minor risks of vapors from oxides which vaporize at lower temperatures, but the quantity is typically very small. 

* http://kansasangler.com/makeit.html
** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead
*** http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121103-Lead-Fumes-let-s-settle-this
**** http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927204


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## woodchucker (Nov 1, 2017)

Well Bob, better safe than sorry. I have a friend that used to spray IMRON w/o a respirator until he wound up in the hospital...  I learned to use a scott pack type respirator when spraying that stuff.  WHAT YOU DON"T KNOW CAN HURT YOU.  Not trying to be the safety police, but making fun of someone who wants to be safe is not my idea of being helpful.


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## Robert LaLonde (Nov 1, 2017)

woodchucker said:


> Well Bob, better safe than sorry. I have a friend that used to spray IMRON w/o a respirator until he wound up in the hospital...  I learned to use a scott pack type respirator when spraying that stuff.  WHAT YOU DON"T KNOW CAN HURT YOU.  Not trying to be the safety police, but making fun of someone who wants to be safe is not my idea of being helpful.



So you are saying his advice to use a saw and throw lead particles every where which is a real risk is trying to be safe?  Seriously?  I posted a summary of basic lead handling and risks backed up with references.  Some better than others.  That's not making fun of anybody.  Thats a responsible response to an irresponsible post.  Since I work with lead several times a week while doing testing, and I have clients who work with lead every day I take this seriously.  I reported actual facts and reasonable assumptions based on available data.  I even provided links for anybody who wanted read them themselves.  I also provided a personal contact who was in the lead processing business.  If you don't like what I had to say that's not me making fun of anybody.  That's just you not liking it.  So breathing a foreign substance like imron into your lungs is a good example and you think spreading lead particles all over the place with a saw is safe?  Think about that for a minute.  Sure there may be some circumstances where you have a small risk of lead fumes, but the problem we are seeing here is taking a reciporcating saw with a fairly high cycle rate and assuming its NOT going to spray some lead dust around.  Geez. 

If  you want to wear a respirator fine.  I have no issue with that.  It won't hurt you unless you have a breathing disorder.   I do have an issue with spewing lead dust all over the place with a saw.  That respirator (oratleast a particle mask with a good seal) is probably a good idea if you are going to cut lead with a power saw.  It won't prevent secondary exposures when you work on all the surfaces in the area, but it will keep you from breathing in lead dust and particles at the time of contamination.  The actual physical amount of lead in your system necessary to be dangerous is pretty small, and breathing in lead dust is one of the worst things you can do.  While your body may process some lead out, generally lead poisoning like other heavy metal poisoning is considered cumulative.  Physical contact with particles and lead by ingestion and inhaltions of dust is the big risk.  Saying wear a mask when you melt it but don't worry about yourself or anybody else who might come in the area later after you have sprayed lead around with a power saw is NOT being safe.  Its plugging the pinhole in the dike while leaving the gate wide open.


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## woodchucker (Nov 1, 2017)

yea, I was thinking you thought his use of a mask was funny. 
The chunks that are going to come out from a saw may or may not be an issue. Most of the guys here have been in shooting ranges.. and many reload.  So many are laughing at this conversation. But hey, if a guy wants to wear a mask, I'm ok with it.  I personally agree with it, but have poured a lot of molds w/o the respirator.


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## Eddyde (Nov 1, 2017)

Bob La Londe said:


> So you are saying his advice to use a saw and throw lead particles every where which is a real risk is trying to be safe?  Seriously?  I posted a summary of basic lead handling and risks backed up with references.  Some better than others.  That's not making fun of anybody.  Thats a responsible response to an irresponsible post.  Since I work with lead several times a week while doing testing, and I have clients who work with lead every day I take this seriously.  I reported actual facts and reasonable assumptions based on available data.  I even provided links for anybody who wanted read them themselves.  I also provided a personal contact who was in the lead processing business.  If you don't like what I had to say that's not me making fun of anybody.  That's just you not liking it.  So breathing a foreign substance like imron into your lungs is a good example and you think spreading lead particles all over the place with a saw is safe?  Think about that for a minute.  Sure there may be some circumstances where you have a small risk of lead fumes, but the problem we are seeing here is taking a reciporcating saw with a fairly high cycle rate and assuming its NOT going to spray some lead dust around.  Geez.
> 
> If  you want to wear a respirator fine.  I have no issue with that.  It won't hurt you unless you have a breathing disorder.   I do have an issue with spewing lead dust all over the place with a saw.  That respirator (oratleast a particle mask with a good seal) is probably a good idea if you are going to cut lead with a power saw.  It won't prevent secondary exposures when you work on all the surfaces in the area, but it will keep you from breathing in lead dust and particles at the time of contamination.  The actual physical amount of lead in your system necessary to be dangerous is pretty small, and breathing in lead dust is one of the worst things you can do.  While your body may process some lead out, generally lead poisoning like other heavy metal poisoning is considered cumulative.  Physical contact with particles and lead by ingestion and inhaltions of dust is the big risk.  Saying wear a mask when you melt it but don't worry about yourself or anybody else who might come in the area later after you have sprayed lead around with a power saw is NOT being safe.  Its plugging the pinhole in the dike while leaving the gate wide open.



Pardon, but with all due respect, A sawzall (reciprocating saw) doesn't "spray dust all over the place" when cutting lead no airborne dust is created the chips fall to the ground pretty much directly below the cut and are easily contained, I know because I have done it many times. I also specifically said to use a tarpaulin or some similar means of collecting the chips so as not to contaminate the area. I even said to keep the blade segregated so as not to contaminate other work and to use gloves. True I did not mention using a dust mask while cutting the lead, only because I think it goes without saying to always use one while cutting anything, I didn't mention eye protection either but of course that is prudent when using any power saw.
Yes, I have melted and cast lead many times back in the day, before respirators were a common thing, I remember getting some headaches too. About 20 years ago a machinist friend warned me to always use a respirator when melting lead, I have ever since and no more headaches. While lead may or may not off-gas at low melt temperatures however, there are likely other contaminants present, that may create toxic fumes as well. Therefore I still think it is wise to wear a respirator when melting lead or most anything else.
Be safe.


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## brasssmanget (Nov 2, 2017)

Bob La Londe said:


> Pure lead is pretty close to .41 pounds per cubic inch.  If they are in the 200lb range you have some really garbage alloy.



I went to the shop and measured the blocks. 12" x 12" x 3.25". Not the 16" previously quoted - so that would put them in a 200 +/- lb range. Have not physically weighed them - just going from guestimates from the person(s) who delivered them to my shop.


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## Silverbullet (Nov 2, 2017)

I've melted and cast , cut sawed ground even sliced and bit lead in my life. I'm not saying it's right but I'm over sixty and I guess lucky . We didn't know any better back then , I agree trying to protect yourself and others but really there are extremists that think everything is bad , lead is in the earth just about everywhere. The real threats never showed up till the paint chips being eaten by children started causing brain damage. And science figured it was in there system . Your not going to be hurt by doing anything with lead on short period basis . I melt lead several times a year for bullets to reload , I don't sit over the molten lead or even use a mask . I do it outside nowadays but use to do it in my kitchen on my coal stove with my pot on the coals so even then the fumes went up the chimney. 
So be safe but don't go NAZI on the working with lead.


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## Robert LaLonde (Nov 2, 2017)

I do have one last thing to say about power saws.  They do not consistently make all the same size chips.  It will vary based on feed rate, blade pressure and operator technique.  There may be only a miniscule amount of fine pieces, but I'd bet money there are traces of lead places you don't expect.  

Well, everybody has certainly had a say.  I handle lead all the time and use a melting pot in my shop several times a week.  Sometimes I have a couple melting pots going at once.  I certainly don't follow all the recommended safety precautions, but I do pay attention to them, and I really did actually read the MSDS on lead.  I'd suggest you atleast read all the information available and make your own informed decisions.


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## brasssmanget (Nov 3, 2017)

Thanks - I will heed all the advice and warnings as I go along. Eventually I plan on making some 1 1/4" projectiles for the cannon I built last year.....


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## Cactus Farmer (Nov 3, 2017)

Silverbullet said:


> I've melted and cast , cut sawed ground even sliced and bit lead in my life. I'm not saying it's right but I'm over sixty and I guess lucky . We didn't know any better back then , I agree trying to protect yourself and others but really there are extremists that think everything is bad , lead is in the earth just about everywhere. The real threats never showed up till the paint chips being eaten by children started causing brain damage. And science figured it was in there system . Your not going to be hurt by doing anything with lead on short period basis . I melt lead several times a year for bullets to reload , I don't sit over the molten lead or even use a mask . I do it outside nowadays but use to do it in my kitchen on my coal stove with my pot on the coals so even then the fumes went up the chimney.
> So be safe but don't go NAZI on the working with lead.



I am 69 and have been casting bullets for all but 12 of those years and lead poisoning has never been a concern with me either. Now am I just lucky or I have I build up an immunity to lead?  I think a lot of folks are overly cautious about lots of things and lead seems to be the one thing everyone is afraid off. Mercury being the other. I played with it as a kid and have 20+ pounds in my possession now. I don't eat it and use due safety precautions and I'm still living. I'm pretty sure cuttings from a machine tool will catch me and pull me into it before all the  "dangerous" chemicals will do me any harm. Drunk drivers are way more likely to kill you than lead!


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## Groundhog (Nov 3, 2017)

Some of these ideas are pretty interesting. If you decide to use the log splitter method for example. Or the axe, or press or torch, please take a video. Sounds like it might be fun to watch!


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## Joncooey (Nov 4, 2017)

Haven't done lead before but I have used a common 10 inch Carbide tipped Chop-saw (for wood) to cut aluminum and copper on many occasions with no ill effect.  Recommendations for a dust mask of course.


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## Robert LaLonde (Nov 4, 2017)

Joncooey said:


> Haven't done lead before but I have used a common 10 inch Carbide tipped Chop-saw (for wood) to cut aluminum and copper on many occasions with no ill effect.  Recommendations for a dust mask of course.



A carbide tipped wood saw blade works pretty well for aluminum actually.  The speed of most wood saws is a little fast, but with some lubrication close to the maximum SFPM for aluminum.  If you could slow it down a little I'd hazard to say they would be great for it.  Never used a carbide tipped circular saw for copper, but other than conventional wire, pipe, applications I don't use much copper.  A tubing cutter or wire cutters works fine for those.


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