# G3102 G3103 Powerfeed



## mjhenks (Nov 18, 2015)

Any G3102 or G3103 owners here?

I have a 3102 that is about 8 years old.  Bought it used with little use.  Built a VFD system for it and a 5" column lift.  Both awesome additions that were not too hard.  Now looking at Power X Feed.  Most threads say nothing will bolt right up except the Grizzly kit.  (P3102156)  

Was looking at the parts manual for the G3103 and it sure looks like the end cap on the table is not part of the kit.  Anyone able to confirm that?  Anyone have any additional information on the kit?  

Anyone adapt one of the many Bridgeport knock-off's to their Grizzly?  If the end cap is re-used then what is different about the shaft adapter?

Doing research before i dive in.

Matthew


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## Dman1114 (Nov 18, 2015)

I bought a G1008,  long story short when moving it we had a accident.   the casting on the power feed broke.

I purchased this  one from grizzly. http://www.grizzly.com/products/Power-Feed-for-Milling-Machines/T23893  looks like its still for sale at 245$

i would assume that as long as your shaft is 5/8"  it should fit ... maybe some slight mods...


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## mjhenks (Nov 19, 2015)

Thank you Dman.

Do you recall a few things?

- Did the power feed unit just screw to the end of the X-stage?    It looks like there would be some threads in the grey piece that the unit would screw to as they usually have a series of holes in that area.

- Did the adapter/shaft slide over the existing shaft?

- Any chance you have the installation notes still hanging around?

My mill does not have mount holes on the end piece but that is easy to fix.  If it is as simple as sliding the new shaft over the old one then this seems quite possible and easy which concerns me as i find very few who say it that way.


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## Dman1114 (Nov 19, 2015)

I will look and see if I have the directions laying around....

You should pull your crank handle off and measure the shaft. 


Can u post some pics of yours I can give you better info.

Looks like there is already a dummy piece on yours where a powerfeed would go.

I don't think you need a extra or adapter.

I think that like mine it should just go up against the end cap on the table.

Since u don't have one there is no holes. 

The power feed has about 8 holes in a circle pattern so i can sorta line up to existing holes. It didn't line up on mine but was close enough, (nothing a milling machine can't fix ) ...

So you would be starting  fresh just have to tap the end cap. 


But  pull yours apart take pics and measure your shaft.  Then post the pics....


I'll let yah know


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## tomh (Nov 19, 2015)

the grey bracket in the photo will be discarded as it fits bridgeport and clones.  On your mill if the lead screw is extended as in the grizzly catalog pic you will remove the dial collar and the adapter behind it and there should be 3 holes for the power feed to bolt to.   The next step is to check the key slot in the  brass gear as it may be narrower than the slot on the lead screw and you will mill the key to fit and then shim as per the instructions.   On my g0730 I had to machine the key to fit which was not a problem. 
Tomh


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## mjhenks (Nov 19, 2015)

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## mjhenks (Nov 19, 2015)

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## mjhenks (Nov 19, 2015)

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## DoogieB (Nov 19, 2015)

Anything more you can post about the power feed would be greatly appreciated.  It's a planned addition to my mill and I'm still gathering information.

Grizzly seems to offer two similar X-axis power feeds, the T23893 and H8371.   Beyond the manufacturers, ALSGS for the first and Align AL-500S for the second, I'm not sure about any other differences.  I believe the Align is supposedly to be better, for on these small mills does it make a difference?

I can find a better deal on the AL-500S, but $245 for the ALSGS isn't a bad price.


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## Dman1114 (Nov 19, 2015)

I will get you some more pics of how mine looks tonight....


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## mjhenks (Nov 19, 2015)

Just spoke with Grizzly trying to get a manual for the T23893.  Was informed that it is being discontinued and to use the H8371.  That one has a manual but it is also twice the price.  ($456 vs. $245)

Right now i figure Grizzly and all the other Chinese knock-offs are using the same motors with similar design.  Most are for the Bridgeport and the main difference is the torque.  

Anyways. More info.

I look forward to what more you can add Dman and i will get measurements of my unit tomorrow.

Matthew


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## tomh (Nov 19, 2015)

That's not good  but not necessarily bad.  It will require a little more work but it can be done so don't get discouraged as  I'm sure you can do it . Have you tried the 6x26 group to see how they have modified theirs and  get some ideas. Look in the photo section/ files.
This is the one I put on my  g0730.   Enco Model 404-3045    $299.95  -20%  +free shipping  =  239.96


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## mjhenks (Nov 19, 2015)

Tom.

I am a member of 6x26 and have searched there.  Not alot or at least nothing that pointed me to enough info to know what i am getting into.  I do not mind the work.   I went a long way to adapt a QCGB to my logan lathe so bring it on.  (but i still like to know where i am heading)  My beggest fear in this one is having to remove the lead screw and turn it down.  Really would rather not do that.

Anyways....


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## Dman1114 (Nov 19, 2015)

I think that Maybe what you will have to do.....   Most of the Powerfeeds i have seen are for a 5/8" shaft.   looks like yours is larger.  

so you would have to turn it down then .... cut a slot for the key.   Not sure what is entailed to pull that out but it would save yah some money.      Or spend the $$$ on the one from grizzly that is supossed to fit.

I don't think there is any reason to pull it apart any further......    That brass gear... where it buts to the dial..  i cut around 3/4" off ... it was longer than my older one..

i just wacked it off in the band saw then faced it in the lathe.  I also had to bore it out around .008 cause it wouldn't slide over my shaft.  Either way...


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## Dman1114 (Nov 19, 2015)

I am probably wrong.....

but the pics don't show it well enough....     Is that a sleeve on your shaft or is it solid???  I'm sure you have thought of this. but JIC


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## DoogieB (Nov 19, 2015)

Thanks for the clear pictures, Dman.

Looks like with my G0678 it shouldn't be too hard to add a power feed.  Seems like they made it easier on the newer models.




It's difficult to see in the picture, but there are two holes that mount the sleeve which should also work to mount the power feed.

Using tomh's  Enco link, I can get a power feed even cheaper than Grizzly with the current 25%+free shipping deal although I'll probably just wait awhile anyway.


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## mjhenks (Nov 19, 2015)

Thanks Dman.  It sure looks like what i have is different.  Will take a look tonight and report tomorrow.  I really would like to believe there is a sleeve on there.....

Your last picture shows some sort of aluminum colored piece in direct contact with your shaft.  Is that part of the power feed?  The 5/8" piece that has to fit over the shaft or something else?

I am guessing it would be the groove looking area on the picture posted by DoogieB

I think the following is correct.  Please confirm.
- The Power Feed needle bearing just sits on the shaft and would free spin if no other parts were installed.
- The Power Feed motor torque roll is countered by the screws into the stage.
- The brass gear is what drives the lead screw via a separate key in the shaft than the handles key.
- The brass gear has a thread and nut that is just to keep the dial in place to be able to re-set the dial if you needed to zero it out.
- The handle mounts to the original end of the shaft on its original key.  The power feed does not change any of that relationship.

If i got that right then how does the brass hear get its axial load to stay engaged to the power feed?  The handle?

Also if i have that right the shaft needs to be long enough to accommodate all of this stuff meaning that i need to know the stack length just to know if i could even turn down the shaft.

BTW.  I stuck a larger picture of my unit is post #6 above.

Matthew


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## Dman1114 (Nov 19, 2015)

ok so mine is the same as Doogie ....  (it got to me and i just had to go look LOL   couldn't remember).


Now i used a combination of parts that was existing (remember i had one it just broke)  and what came with the kit.  

I remember trying to use everything new... but i think the spacer over the inside of the shaft (race that needle bearings roll on)  i ended up using the original.  it just made it best for shimming.

so as you can see from these pics the shaft is larger at the needle bearing   a race / sleave is slide over that section and thats what the needle bearings ride on.

as you can see i elongated the holes cause the bolt pattern was off like a half hole..... 


Maybe you don't have to turn down your shaft????  maybe just bore out the brass gear and broach a key slot?...

thats if you shaft is around that .789 or so????


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## DoogieB (Nov 19, 2015)

I don't know if this helps or not, but here's plans for the Servo power feed that all these units are base upon.

http://servoproductsco.com/specs/0200_80003.pdf

Between these and those Grizzly instructions it should start to make sense.


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## mjhenks (Nov 20, 2015)

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## Dman1114 (Nov 20, 2015)

That's great news!!!....  that off color fat shaft just didn't look natural. Lol.


I don't think you have anything to worry bout.

With The grizzly one you pretty much know what your getting into......


It's all layed out here, I would order the grizz and be done.  


It comes with shims and everything. 

Since your shaft is 16 mm...


Mine is the same.  

That is why the 5/8 brass gear hub wouldn't slide on mine. 

Like I mentioned  earlier.  I stuck mine in the lathe and bored it out around .006 - .008 larger.  Now it's pefect. 


I also cut off part of the end so that I could use my grizz handle...  seeing as this kit is really for like a bridgeport or something. 



Either way.  Your almost theree......  just break out the CC and get er done!!!!


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## DoogieB (Nov 20, 2015)

Well, that looks much better with that sleeve off and you should be in good shape now.  These power feed kits seem to be made as generic as possible to fit many mills and since you own a lathe and mill you'll get it to fit one way or the other.

This has been a good thread with plenty of information.  Unfortunately, all this talk is making me feel like I'm missing out and should quit dawdling and order a feed now instead of later!  Bunch of enablers, this place is.


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## mjhenks (Nov 20, 2015)

Paypal is ready yet why do i now what to find free shipping.....  Man i am cheap.

I am on my way and hopefully in a month or so i can report back the end of the story for all to read later when they ask the same questions.

Matthew


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## tomh (Nov 20, 2015)

Here you are  enco mod# 404-3045   224.96   to your door with  25% off   free shipping  
use code * special*    and code  *offer *
complete kit same as on my g0730


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## mjhenks (Nov 20, 2015)

Well poop.  Already pulled the trigger with Grizzly.  

I will add that i pulled apart an Acra Bridgeport knock-off mill today (with the permission of the machinist) and found that it is identical to everything shown in this thread.  Can post pictures if anyone is interested but did not really see anything new.  Just more confirmation.


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## mjhenks (Dec 1, 2015)

A quick update with no pictures.  

Power feed received from Grizzly.  Did a quick test fit and found that it will work but also found missing parts and the brass gear drive is way too long.  Trying to work with Grizzly to get the missing parts sent out but it looks like they do not deal in spare parts and want me to send the whole thing back.  Not happy about that at all and am deciding what to do.

More later along with some pictures.

Matthew


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## Dman1114 (Dec 1, 2015)

I cut off about 3/4" off the brass drive gear...   

Used the band saw... then mounted it in my lathe and faced it.

What all are u missing?


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## mjhenks (Dec 4, 2015)

X-power Feed is now fully mounted.  It is not powered yet though.  More on that in a minute.

Mounting the motor was straight forward.  Drill and tap two M6 threads and two holes for roll pins.  The threads you have 8 holes to choose from in the motor housing.  I used the top two as that is what was used in the Bridgeport end plate that came with the kit.  Install the 5/8" to 19mm needle bearing sleeve, put the unit up on the mill and transfer punch the hole to the end plate.  Remove and tap.

For the roll pins i removed them from the Bridgeport piece and used the Bridgeport piece as the hole pattern.  I aligned it to my end piece using the mount screws as the alignment feature and transfer punched the holes.  They are roll pins so they have a little give.  I was a little off but it worked.

After the motor was mounted the brass gear was next.  I had to use every single shim in the kit plus two washers to space the gear off enough so it was not bottoming out the tooth.  Note that when i mounted the handle the stack compressed again and i had to add more shims.  In the end i used probably 1/2" of shims.  If my lathe was up i would have just made a single spacer but....




The brass gear is way too long for the grizzly so you have to turn about 8mm off the snout.  Holding the gear in the lathe was interesting.  I finally just shoved a tight rod down the center and friction held in on.  Worked.




As i said in my previous post, the key for the brass gear was not sent in the kit so i had to make that too.  Machined down a 1/8" key to 3mm.

After all that it was all mounted and apears to mechanically be fine.




I am working on the electrical now.  The cable was about 6" too short to make it to my buss bar in my VFD box so i am working toward another source of power.  Also i know that the limits want to mount where the front X encoder is mounted in the table so i will have to figure out a way around that.  The switch can piggy back on the encoder pick-up but the end travel piece will not be sturdy enough on the scale cover.  Will solve that later.

Matthew


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## DoogieB (Dec 4, 2015)

Thanks for the run down as your information will soon come in handy!  The installation you described was similar to what I expected and because of the Enco deal there's a X power feed sitting on the workbench in my shop.


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## mjhenks (Dec 4, 2015)

I realize i am not yet done with X but i have already been noodling on a power Z for the machine.  

That is going to be a bit more work though as the stock Z shaft, once the collar is removed has no thread and is about 19mm in diameter.  Both make it difficult to adapt a X power unit the same way.  Most of the Z kits seem to add a threaded on extension shaft in order to keep the handle.  Hmm....  Not worth the $250 right now but i think about it every time i stick the drill chuck in there and have to lower the table 30 turns.....

Matthew


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## mjhenks (Dec 7, 2015)

The saga continues.

Got power to the motor Saturday.  Does not work.....  Bummed.  Ok so it does move the tablejust fine but the "high speed" button and the "variable speed" buttons do nothing.  One speed no matter what i tried.  I really do not want to take it apart to find whatever wire/switch is not hooked up so i plan to return it for another....

Oh well.....

Matthew


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## mjhenks (Dec 29, 2015)

So it is done.  The replacement unit arrived from Grizzly and works.  Funny thing is that it was still missing the key that started the whole mess.  Told Grizzly and they said they would open a "production case" on it.  Moving on....

All mounted up and wired in.  Ran the power into my VFD box so the unit powers up with the mill now.  Also mounted the limits.  Kind of cheesy there as i had to piggy back them to the X travel encoder and mount the stops to the encoder cover.  Thin 1/8" aluminum.  Milled off the back side of the stops, milled a slot in-line with the mount hole for the head of a M4 SHCS.  Tapped the aluminum guard with two holes per side.  One hole mounts a SHCS by itself so that the head becomes the anti-rotation device for the stop and the single mount screw. 




Only part i am not totally happy with is the speed.  Even on high the traverse speed is not as fast as i would have hoped.  I think i could crank it just as fast but of course the motor does not get tired.

Anyways.  Totally possible and not that hard.  Key points:

- Brass gear will have to be shortened.
- You will need more shims than what comes in the kit.
- Use the Bridgeport end cap that is included as your guide to position the roll pins.
- Harvest the roll pins from the end cap.
- Make sure it works before you mount it and check for all the parts.

Matthew


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