# Tool Recommendations?



## HEAVYMETAL87 (Aug 7, 2016)

How's it going everyone? 

I have ran into a bit of a debacle- where can I find a good quality 4x36 belt sander and a bench grinder for a reasonable price? I can't afford a Baldor or anything fancy like that at the time being. I am learning machining to hopefully build myself a live steam engine (or three) and I am still in the whole set up shop/learning on other people's machines phase. 

Thank you in advance!


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## dlane (Aug 7, 2016)

Ied keep an eye on Craig's list ,


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## JimDawson (Aug 7, 2016)

When price is the constraint, then Harbor Freight is normally my go to place.  Not the best quality, but they do work.  Figure on replacing the switch after a short time.  As @dlane says, Craigslist is a good option also there are a bunch of them listed in the South West.


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## brino (Aug 7, 2016)

Welcome to the site!

Have you got any used tool stores in the area? My local one has a couple bench grinders there right now, but they seem to turn-over quick. They don't sell at give-away prices, but normally way better then new prices.

I picked up (from a hardware store) a cheapy belt/disc sander years ago for wood work, but currently use it more for metal now. I did have to replace a belt once, and it does need a push to get started in real cold weather, but I have certainly got my moneys worth.

-brino


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## Ulma Doctor (Aug 7, 2016)

:+1: on both HF and CL !
prepare to do a little tune up work on the HF 4x36 if you get it, they are mostly less than admirable, but if you were to tune it (nice way of saying refining/possibly rebuilding it)
a 4x36 could become useful.
sadly the craftsman is only slightly better, having similar construction but slightly better feel than the HF
i'm not sure what your machine turnover is like in Yuma or the surrounding areas, 
but i'd consider vigilant search for a good, but slightly rusted up, old school hunk of iron like a delta or very old craftsman, montgomery wards(Power Kraft), dewalt, etc.
i was in a similar predicament, in trying to find a sander, but i needed a 6x48- i ended up searching for a couple months and then ended up finding and getting a Reliant .
the quality is fair/good, the price was right, but i had to drive 70 miles to get it. i didn't have to do any work to the unit. but i was very lucky
may luck find you too!
i wish you the best in quest!


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## Uglydog (Aug 8, 2016)

Old fashioned arbor type bench grinders are cheap and work well. 
Simple jackshafts will support a cylinder to drive belts for a belt sander. 
Or consider a portable belt sander instead of a bench mount.  

If used bushings / bearings are replaceable. 
Make tool rests if there aren't any.
Consider making a belt and guard as well, bent sheet metal is great. But, scraps of plywood work well. 
Any motor can be used, but gear up/down the motor to ensure that you don't exceed the rpm of the grinding wheels.
Stands can be fancy weldments our a construct from used pallets. 

This doesn't need to be an expensive hobby. We tend to make it expensive. 
Reality is that alot of great work used to be done with a hacksaw and a file.

Daryl
MN


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## Dave Smith (Aug 8, 2016)

Daryl is right on--items you are talking about are very simple machines and can be obtained for little as $20 or much less if you watch garage sales and C list---most arbor grinders usually come with 2 mounted grindstones and $5 or under is findable---you may have to buy a couple older motors  1/4 to 3/4 hp  with some pulleys and any v belt sizes will do--so far you should be a lot less than $10-----watch for materials to build your disc sander and belt sander--lots of cheap and free materials are plentiful to work good in building these--you can always refine these later if needed------for good scroungers this hobby can be inexpensive so you will have money later to put into your drill press lathes and mills for your shop-----in the search box, type in---  scroungers---  and you will see lots of good articles on where to find good free item sources for your building needs------Dave


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## Paul in OKC (Aug 8, 2016)

Ditto the above. Besides HF we have Steve's wholesale tools locally. I have a cheap bench grinder I bought many years ago from them still going strong.


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## Charles Spencer (Aug 8, 2016)

I got an old Craftsman belt and disk sander model# 103.22540 off of Craigslist for about $35 if I remember correctly.  They show up all the time around here.  I did a quick craigslist search for Yuma and found none, but a bunch of them in surrounding areas including several for $75 - $100.

I also have this sander from Harbor Freight:

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-x-36-inch-belt-6-inch-disc-sander-97181.html

that you can buy this weekend for $60 using the 25% off coupon found here:

https://slickdeals.net/f/1276399-harbor-freight-coupon-thread

It's kind of flimsy but I prefer it for fine work at the bench.

I have three grinders:  an old Craftsman, a Dewalt (made in China), and an 8" HF model:

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-bench-grinder-with-gooseneck-lamp-37823.html

The lamp is nice to have but I replaced the wheels and tool rests.  The tool rests were flimsy and  I don't trust Chinese grinding wheels.  I'm from Worcester and much prefer Nortons.   Anyway, I've had it for five years now and haven't had any complaints.  I got it on sale for $35 but it's currently $55.  Of course they always have sales and coupons.


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## HEAVYMETAL87 (Aug 9, 2016)

I was considering a new craftsman- for both. But then again is 1/3hp enough for the kind of work we are doing?


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## mikey (Aug 9, 2016)

I own both a 1/2 and 1/3 HP version of the common Craftsman 2X42 belt sander and I can easily stall the latter when grinding lathe tools, while the former will power through an aggressive grind on a HSS tool. For belt sanders, bigger is better. For bench grinders, I suggest you look for at least an 8" wheel rather than the homeowner 6" version. Your choice of wheels will be much easier with the bigger wheel. 

Nothing wrong with Craftsman power tools. They are by far not the best out there but they will get you up and running until something better falls into your lap. Buy what you can find and afford and get on with it. Once you see what your needs really are you can focus on finding the best machine.


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## HEAVYMETAL87 (Aug 9, 2016)

I don't need it for grinding lathe tools- I have indexable bits. Most of what I would be doing is building live steam engines.

As far as the bigger machines go, I was going with a PM-727M and the PM-1022V lathe. 
It's the little stupid ones like this that are causing the headache now.


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## mikey (Aug 9, 2016)

Aaahh, you say that now but wait. One day you will see how well HSS works on a smaller lathe like the 1022 and the headaches will get worse!

That aside, I agree with looking for stuff on CL.


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## timetraveller (Aug 10, 2016)

For the 4x6 belt sander, check out the Porter Cable unit that Lowe's carries. It is heavy duty and built very well. $179. 

Bill


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## HEAVYMETAL87 (Aug 11, 2016)

timetraveller said:


> For the 4x6 belt sander, check out the Porter Cable unit that Lowe's carries. It is heavy duty and built very well. $179.
> 
> Bill



That looks like what I will be going with, the price is right and there is a Lowes not far from me at all. 
Same with their bench grinder! 

Now, regarding the bandsaw... 
I know that the popular smaller band saws are the little 4x6 ones that can be had for around 3-400 dollars. What I was considering was the Milwaukee corded portable bandsaw with the stand that they sell for it- or a benchtop unit of some sort around the same size. 

I really don't have a ton of space, if I could even get away with smaller machines I would- but from what I have gathered from my mentor (who is an avid live steamer) the mill and lathe that I picked are about small as I would want to go practically. I have access to a large bandsaw if I need it, but for at home if I could get away with something small that would be ideal. Thoughts?


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## T. J. (Aug 11, 2016)

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## HEAVYMETAL87 (Aug 11, 2016)

I was looking at using it as a horizontal band saw. If there is a stand that would have a vise on it for horizontal work, that would be great. There is even a part of me that has been saying "screw it, just buy an abrasive chop saw."

But I am about 99% sure it's not a worthy substitute.


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## HEAVYMETAL87 (Aug 11, 2016)

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...ontent=49466&gclid=CJqFtfu0us4CFQYyaQodQSEFGA

What about something like this?


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## timetraveller (Aug 11, 2016)

I too have a very small space to work in. Mine is a 4x6 shed plus a small workbench outside for temporary work, like vise work, grinding, small 1x30 belt sander, etc. I live in a warm, sunny climate so that is not a problem.

I have wrestled with the cutting of metal problem for awhile. I most often resort to an angle grinder with a 4.5 inch cutoff wheel. You must BE CAREFUL, though. I've been tempted to get a nice abrasive cutoff saw. I could easily move it to the outside bench for a temporary operation. I don't really have room for a band saw of any kind. I also don't like the slowness of the band saw when cutting through very heavy material. I can whip through a 2 inch steel bar with the cutoff wheel in no time. Spending $300+ for a nice portable band saw and stand is a bit much for my situation. Your requirements are probably different.

The problem with cutoff wheels is the inability to cut a radius, in the case of needing to cut a disc out of a flat sheet. You can approximate it by taking multiple cuts of course. But even a band saw blade will not cut a very tight radius. The other problem is cutting larger flat work.

So, as a newbie in this hobby, and starting to build my small shop, my next purchase will probably be a cutoff saw.

Wear an apron of some kind. Pants catch fire!

Bill

Just some thoughts.


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## Charles Spencer (Aug 11, 2016)

timetraveller said:


> I live in a warm, sunny climate so that is not a problem.





I'd guess that in a few months Rochester is going to be somewhat less warm and sunny.


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## timetraveller (Aug 12, 2016)

Times change. That's old information I've forgotten to update.

I now live in Arizona.

Bill


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## HEAVYMETAL87 (Aug 12, 2016)

Bill, 
My condolences for Quartzsite. Sorry about the artillery at night. 

In machining is a narrower (2") style belt sander more commonly used?


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## timetraveller (Aug 13, 2016)

An interesting question. Not sure what would be most commonly used. I know the 2 inch belt sanders are out there, but you don't find them commonly in the retail outlets. I believe Grizzly carries one. I don't see one on the shelves at Harbor Freight or (initially) on their web site. I believe Craftsman had one at one time. I don't see the 2 inch belts themselves at the Home Depot or Lowes retail stores. But they do have the 1x30 and 4x36 belts on the shelf.

I have a little HF 1x30 sander with an 80 grit belt. I can grind tool stock with it. The motor will stall if you get too aggressive. Usually what I do is get the bit roughed out on the 6 inch bench grinder, then finish it using a light touch on the belt sander. A 2 inch wide belt would be easier to use for this.

The 4x36 would be handy for certain operations, like face sanding larger material where tolerances are not part of the equation. I would love to have that Porter Cable unit. It is stout. Maybe some day.

Right now I am working on a faceplate sanding disk idea. I want to incorporate a tilting table that I can set at prescribed angles. I've cobbled up a tangential tool holder out of an old boring head and I want to get the angles on the tool bit just right.

Ha! I will watch for that artillery! Rochester, NY was a short stop for me (medical reasons), and my sister lives there. Most of my life has been spent out west.

Bill


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