# What Is A "regular" 9 Sb Is Capable Off?



## A. Fig Lee (Jun 29, 2015)

Hello guys,
I have a mini 7x12 (I know, shame, eh?)..
Not very capable machine. Bought some tooling for it.
4 inch chuck with 3 and 4 jaws, some other stuff.
Bought bearings 30206 to improve it.
At this point I may do regular steel 1/2". 1" Diameter causes me trouble to cut it.
I read some stuff on internet how to improve it..

Anyway, I'm thinking - perhaps I should switch to SB?
What is SB capable of? I need various projects.
Yesterday I needed to use thread die and did not have a holder for it.
So, I would do holders with 20 and 30 mm internal diameter.
Some knobs, other stuff.
What biggest diameter can you turn on SB 9 - regular and stainless steel.
It could do stainless, right?
Thank you.


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## pineyfolks (Jun 29, 2015)

https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=85-uYCoBas8. That video may be taking it to extremes but it shows what is possible. I regularly turn diameters up to 2" easily with my 9" sb. Correctly grinding your tools is the biggest thing along with getting your feed and speed set. I've probably made more parts on my 9" sb than any of my other machines.


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## A. Fig Lee (Jun 29, 2015)

pineyfolks said:


> https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=85-uYCoBas8. That video may be taking it to extremes but it shows what is possible. I regularly turn diameters up to 2" easily with my 9" sb. Correctly grinding your tools is the biggest thing along with getting your feed and speed set. I've probably made more parts on my 9" sb than any of my other machines.



Thank you. Not clear though, what kind of material it was. Seems like some steel - shiny.
Not a stainless steel, no?


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## pineyfolks (Jun 29, 2015)

It looks like aluminum.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 29, 2015)

i have an improved Australian copy (Hercus ARH) of the SB9" heres what it's capable of....
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/little-lathe-big-work-a-crash-course-into-the-unknown.35584/

(the piece i turned is greater than 7" in diameter on a 9" swing lathe....)


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## A. Fig Lee (Jun 30, 2015)

Ulma Doctor said:


> i have an improved Australian copy (Hercus ARH) of the SB9" heres what it's capable of....
> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/little-lathe-big-work-a-crash-course-into-the-unknown.35584/
> 
> (the piece i turned is greater than 7" in diameter on a 9" swing lathe....)



Wow! That is steel I understood. Very impressive.
As long as 3" diameter steel may be cut on SB, that is good.


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## brino (Jun 30, 2015)

Every machine has limits, you just need to understand why and what they are.

One major figure of merit for lathes (and other machines) is rigidity. The forces of holding and turning the work and applying the cutting tool should not cause deformation of the machine.

However any slop in the dovetail ways or slides or lead-screw backlash automatically means things have room to move and will lead to bad results.

Check the downloads area here in the Southbend folder for a book called "how to run a lathe" one page shows various projects produced on such a lathe.

If you cut 0.5" steel okay but have trouble with 1" dia. for the same cutting depth, then (if the workpiece and centred and not simply too heavy for the lathe) I'd say that the problem is most likely your rotation speed.

For 1" dia. steel you need to cut your rpm's in half compared to the 0.5 inch steel.
It is really about surface feet per minute(sfpm).
To get your cutting speed:

1) choose a sfpm based on the tool type (HSS or carbide) and the material to be cut.
2) choose the rpm based on the sfpm and diameter of the work.

The sfpm should come from a good reference book, or a reliable on line source.

For example; for cutting regular steel with a high-speed steel tool I typically use 80 sfpm.

For a 0.5" diameter work piece that means about 600 rpm.
However for a 1" diameter work piece it means about 300 rpm.
Those two speed/diameter combinations give the same sfpm!

Experience will tell you if you need to go a little faster or slower.
Since it's a hobby for me, I have never been concerned with cycle times.

-brino


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## pineyfolks (Jun 30, 2015)

These are some 2" sleeves I was turning. An easy job for a machine this size.


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## McRuff (Jul 1, 2015)

I have been using 9" south bends since I was in trade school in 1981. Technically you can turn a 9" diameter, but to be reasonable, I would say you can turn steel from 4-5" in diameter at a very good rate so long as the machine is in decent shape. I have turned 7" diameter iron on mine numerous times. The longest part was about 16"  long and 3.5" in diameter. I have cut S-7, D-2, H-13, knack 55, vicount 44, A-2, P-20 and numerous other steels, aluminum, brass and so on with no problem. I use both carbide, brazed and inserts along with HSS for cutting.
These machines thread exceptionally well. I even broach splines and such on my machine.

These machines are in no way comparable to any of the 7" or 8"  Taiwan or Chinese built machines, they are superior in every way.
If you go to buy one make sure the machine is an  A model with the quick change box and then make sure the bed and headstock is in good shape.


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## aametalmaster (Jul 3, 2015)

I have a 10K which is a jacked up 9". I have turned 10" parts but 4" is the norm in my shop. Plus everything else you can imagine including milling...Bob


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## A. Fig Lee (Jul 3, 2015)

Interesting.. Grizzly has on sale 11"x26"  G9972Z http://www.grizzly.com/products/11-x-26-Bench-Lathe-w-Gearbox/G9972Z
would it be comparable to South Bend?


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## DoogieB (Jul 3, 2015)

No.

If you are buying a new Chinese lathe they don't start getting good until you get up to the 12x size, which is a full-featured lathe.

In this case, good is defined as a QCGB, preferable a Norton style, power crossfeed with reverse-tumblers on the feed and other goodies.  These lathes usually way around a thousand pounds.  That's what's so nice about a SB 9A/10K, you can get a full-featured lathe that's still relatively light.  Of course, because they are light you can't take the same size cut as a 12X lathe, but those lathes have their own peccadillos as well.

If you haven't already, you should check-out the Youtube videos from Doubleboost and Mrpete222.  In his older videos, Doubleboost has a Boxford lathe which is pretty much a South Bend clone so you can get a good idea of the projects these lathes can handle.


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## A. Fig Lee (Jul 3, 2015)

Yes, you are right. Went to busybeetools today, checked a few. Anything smaller then http://www.busybeetools.com/products/metal-lathe-13in-x-24in-with-stand.html
looks flimsy, though I like size filling of 10x22 lathe.

13x24 on other had has X and Y feed, steady rest, follow rest, etc.. Feels complete machine.


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## aametalmaster (Jul 3, 2015)

That Grizzly won't cut left hand threads, but not a deal breaker. Depends if you want to spend $1600.00 that's up to you. I prob have that in my 10K but i added what i needed to get the jobs done that come in the door...Bob


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## DoogieB (Jul 3, 2015)

There's more to the changing the direction of the lead screw than left-hand threads.  The default crossfeed direction on my SB 10K is towards the operator, but many times I like to feed inward.  Can't do that without the reverse tumblers.  I also prefer disengaging the lead screw when it's not needed as there's no use spinning all those gears when you're just drilling a hole.  I use this stuff all the time and would greatly miss it.

The way I look at it, my SB 10K was constructed in the 70's, with a design from the 50's and with technology from the 30's.  You wouldn't think replicating all the lathe features would be a big deal nowadays.


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## A. Fig Lee (Jul 4, 2015)

What I do like about old stuff lathe:
1) It is well made and designed
2) liquidity - you may sell it for the same money roughly that it was bought
What I do not like about it:
1) tear and wear - I guess it is hit and miss
2) tooling availability - with all that different models hard to anticipate which tool will be difficult to get, if even possible. May be expensive as well.

So, dilemma.
I will go Monday look at this one http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/c...end-lathe-model-a-with-table-stand/1082998088
Isn't $800 US too much? Guy could not find serial for this one.
What should I look for?


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## aametalmaster (Jul 4, 2015)

I would look for 800 bucks. I would grab that one...Bob


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## Surprman (Jul 4, 2015)

That is a good deal for a model A (assuming the bed is in good shape).  (You could part it out and get most of your money back probably at that price if you don't like it(the thread gage alone goes for around $100 on EBay normally).  I have a model C and I really enjoy using it (the Qcgb and power cross feed would be a nice upgrade (and be more efficient, time wise), but I can do all I want to do on my machine and I'm usually in no rush anyway.  I also have a modern (Asian) Grizzly mill (G0619),  it is nice and I like it, but having taken both machines completely apart, it is no match to the quality of the older U.S. made SB.


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## DoogieB (Jul 4, 2015)

The serial number is on the bed at the tailstock.  It's an older model A because it only has one git oiler at the QCGB and has the small dials on the crossfeed/compound.  That doesn't mean it's bad, that's just what it is.



> 2) tooling availability - with all that different models hard to anticipate which tool will be difficult to get, if even possible. May be expensive as well.



What do you mean?  Parts?  People are parting out 9" SB's all the time on Ebay.  The actual lathe tooling is very standard, MT2 tailstock, AXA QCTP & 1 1/2 x 8 TPI threaded spindle.  This stuff is used by almost all of the small, domestic lathes (Atlas, Logan, etc).


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## A. Fig Lee (Jul 4, 2015)

DoogieB said:


> What do you mean?  Parts?  People are parting out 9" SB's all the time on Ebay.  The actual lathe tooling is very standard, MT2 tailstock, AXA QCTP & 1 1/2 x 8 TPI threaded spindle.  This stuff is used by almost all of the small, domestic lathes (Atlas, Logan, etc).



Good to know, thank you. I meant like follow rest, steady rest etc - standard addons..
So, do you know - does this model has X,Y auto feed? For threads I guess I have to change gears manually. Is SB capable of metric threading?
Capable of left threading?
Does it have MT3 in spindle? I like an idea to use MT3 collet sometimes.
I guess motor may be easily upgraded.

Seems potentially may be not so bad deal..


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## aametalmaster (Jul 4, 2015)

Yes that lathe has auto feed on the bed and cross slide. It also has a quick change gearbox so no change gears needed. Except if you want to do metric threading you will need a few more to adapt it. Yes left hand threading. Yes MT#3 in the spindle. Don't know what motor it has now but thats an easy fix for whatever you desire. Like i said before grab it...Bob


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## A. Fig Lee (Jul 4, 2015)

aametalmaster said:


> Yes that lathe has auto feed on the bed and cross slide. It also has a quick change gearbox so no change gears needed. Except if you want to do metric threading you will need a few more to adapt it. Yes left hand threading. Yes MT#3 in the spindle. Don't know what motor it has now but thats an easy fix for whatever you desire. Like i said before grab it...Bob



Yummy.. Waiting for Monday.


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## DoogieB (Jul 5, 2015)

A few things...

Buying a used lathe has been covered many, many times in this forum and others.  A quick search will yield good information, as there's some things you want to look out for, like broken gear teeth.

Also, if you buy that SB lathe your are signing-up for a minimum of a good cleaning and re-wicking.  Go on Youtube and look for "Halligan142" and look at his videos on the Southbend 9" Gearbox Conversion.  That will give you a good idea of the process and what to expect.


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## A. Fig Lee (Jul 6, 2015)

You may hate me, but I did not like it. Do not know, I have old Rockwell/Delta Unisaw and I'm perfectly fine with it. But that lathe, despite of luck of any rust,  
looks like metal scrap. Guy does not know about parts, but he knows it costs that much, and I would say only chuck comes with it. All lathe looks like was hammered all over the place. Yes, it moves, all parts as should, but. That is not a lathe, it is a starting point to through in money and lot of time. I expected I may start turning.
Even longer way to bring it up then my mini lathe, I suspect.


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## DoogieB (Jul 6, 2015)

I spent almost a year searching until I bought a used lathe.  Many times a likely candidate would come and go on Craig's list before I even got home from work.  The big, heavy lathes tend to sit awhile, but it's fierce competition for the smaller ones.


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## pineyfolks (Jul 6, 2015)

Don't get discouraged. You never know what you'll run into until you go look. Sometimes the machines listed as perfect aren't so perfect and the ones listed as (grandpa's old lathe has to go) are.


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## Primitive_Pete (Nov 24, 2015)

I found my SB 9 on CL 500 bucks with a four jaw chuck and a steady rest! Was use in the local shipyard back in '49. Has a 48' in bed I would trade 18" of that for  2" more swing. LOL


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