# Harbor Freight band saw modifications



## Mark_f (Dec 4, 2014)

I know there are tons of band saw modifications and post about them on here and everywhere else. After tuning up my old 4 x 6 band saw and getting it to be the metal eating beast it should be, I decided to do some upgrades. I searched the net and found enough upgrade sites and write ups to keep me reading for a month. After hours of looking ( and most of them are listed somewhere on this site also) I picked out the ones I thought were best and started implementing them on my saw. I thought maybe a write up with all the mods done to one saw in one write up would be of interest to anyone who is new to them or is thinking of improving their " saw kit" they purchased. I did a thread on here about setting the tension, choosing the blade, the feed and speed of the blade. that all makes the saw cut. these mods make it a pleasure to use.

My saw is very old, more than twenty five years. The first thing I did was strip the deck by removing the fences height bolt and cleaning the deck. mine was rusty and pitted so I sanded the deck with 60 grit on an orbital sander being sure to keep the pad flat. the next step was to scrape any high areas of the cast iron and then polish the deck with a coarse wet stone. I checked the deck for flatness and it is now better than when it was new.


	

		
			
		

		
	
 This is the finished deck. Notice I also drilled and tapped three 3/8-16 holes next to the blade area. these are to use my mill clamps for sawing small pieces the vise can't hold. I found this mod on several web sites and it will be a big help to me.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 I made a precision brass bushing to fit the 3/8-16 bolt that holds the pivot point of the fence. I drilled the hole in the fence out to 1/2 inch and made the bushing a light press in the fence and the bolt a snug sliding fit in the bushing.




	

		
			
		

		
	
 This eliminates any excess movement at this point which is going to help when setting angles and squareness to the blade. there was some play in here from the factory. it wasn't even close to a good fit. now it is tight.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 Next , I used a precision square to set the fence square to the blade and locked the fence in this position.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 I made a block with along 1/4-20 set screw and bolted it to the table using two 1/4-20 socket head cap screws. This adjustment holds the blade square so when you move the fence to cut an angle, just move it back to the stop and it is square again. Saves a lot of time squaring up the fence. this mod was selected from a web site also. this is also why I put the bushing in the pivot point. slop in the pivot point messes up the squareness when returning the fence to "home". the busing eliminates the problem.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 Another modification I saw on a web site I liked was to make a "high" bolt with a Tommy bar and a flanged bushing for the slot in the fence. the 5/16-18 bolt that holds the movable jaw  is sloppy fit at best. so , I flied the sides of the slot straight and made a bushing much like for the pivot point. now the movable jaw is a smoother and better fit. it is also easy to tighten and loosen with the Tommy bar. I also drilled and taped the movable jaw for a 3/8-16 threaded rod with a knob on one end. this jack bar holds the vise square when sawing short parts.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 Sometimes I like to rest the saw blade on my work to measure or set up for clamping and then I have a difficult time accessing the crank for the vise. I made an extension for the screw shaft to move the handle out where it is easy to get to when the saw is down. I found the handle did not want to work smoothly. this has always been a problem. the reason was the casting has an angle where the shaft comes out and the casting is not square to the shaft. )I suspect this is a draft angle to let the casting come out of the mold easier ).



	

		
			
		

		
	
 Here you can see where I used my angle grinder to grind the casting flat in this area. the screw works much smoother now.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 This photo is a review of the modifications don today on my saw. All these mods only took a few hours. I was done in one afternoon.

Next on the schedule is a hydraulic down feed cylinder to replace the garage door spring the manufacturer uses. those parts are ordered and I will add that to this thread when they arrive.

I also have ordered a link v belt for the saw. I tried the belt from my mill on it and "what a difference". The saw runs smoother and quieter, so I ordered a new link belt for it at a cost of $20. the rest of the modifications were free as I used items I had on hand and from my scrap box.

I have plans for a chip pan to catch the chips and a table extension at the out feed area to make "special" sawing setups easier. These will be added as I do them also. So keep watching this space.

With just a little work you can make your cheap ......umm.....inexpensive saw into a really high quality piece of tooling.

Mark Frazier


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## dickr (Dec 4, 2014)

Holy Moly   Mark 
After seeing that I'm gonna drop mine off the next time I pass through Pa.  That's a really nice rework  !
dickr


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## outsider347 (Dec 4, 2014)

Mark
Love my old HF band saw.
Kinda reminds me of a old 32 Ford Hot Rod
 No idea how old it is, found it in the trash years ago, & it has  been working reasonably well.
Looking forward to the ideas that will show up here ..especially the down pressure controll

Subscribed

ed


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## thomas s (Dec 4, 2014)

Thank you Mark good job on the upgrades. Please post when you get the down pressure feed done thomas s


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## Mark_f (Dec 4, 2014)

thomas s said:


> Thank you Mark good job on the upgrades. Please post when you get the down pressure feed done thomas s



Looks like everyone wants the down feed control. Well the hydraulic cylinders are too darn expensive. I been looking all over the net and cheapest thing I found so far is McMaster Carr for forty bucks for the cylinder. I was about to order it and decided to try to make one first. ( You guys will probably like that). If It works this control will cost nothin as I think there is enough stuff in the scrap box.

So.... :rubbinghands: ... i going to try to make the whole thing. Cylinder, check valve, and needle valve. I already got a plan. I just hope it comes together.

Mark Frazier


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## JimDawson (Dec 4, 2014)

Mark, I have no doubt that you will build a beautiful down stroke control system.

For the others reading who are lazy like me and don't want to take the time to build our own.  Hydraulic cylinders are not needed.  Any air cylinder in the +/- 1 inch or so range would work fine on a 4x6 saw.  I'm using a 2 inch, salvaged,  air cylinder on my much larger Wells. The system is filled with hydraulic oil.  I did build the bracket for the flow control.:whistle:


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## chuckorlando (Dec 5, 2014)

Very nice work.


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## Mark_f (Dec 5, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> Mark, I have no doubt that you will build a beautiful down stroke control system.
> 
> For the others reading who are lazy like me and don't want to take the time to build our own.  Hydraulic cylinders are not needed.  Any air cylinder in the +/- 1 inch or so range would work fine on a 4x6 saw.  I'm using a 2 inch, salvaged,  air cylinder on my much larger Wells. The system is filled with hydraulic oil.  I did build the bracket for the flow control.:whistle:
> 
> View attachment 89063



Yea, I know an air cylinder will work cause that was what I was going to order for forty bucks. The hydraulic cylinder is way expensive. But since I have the material and maybe the ability, I gonna give it a shot to make it. I can always spend the money if it doesn't work.....lol

Mark Frazier


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## DoogieB (Dec 5, 2014)

The spring on my 4x6 saw has been working fine for cutting rounds, but probably next year I will need to cut some square tube so I've been exploring the hydraulic down-feed mod.  Like you've noticed, if you buy everything new in can get kinda expensive so I'm hoping to score a cheap cylinder and other parts somewhere.  I'll be watching for your DIY version as a Plan B.

Are you going to add a bypass for the needle valve?  Everyone uses a one way valve so you can lift the saw, but I was planning on adding a button valve bypass so you can lower the saw quickly without opening the needle valve.


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## Mark_f (Dec 5, 2014)

DoogieB said:


> The spring on my 4x6 saw has been working fine for cutting rounds, but probably next year I will need to cut some square tube so I've been exploring the hydraulic down-feed mod.  Like you've noticed, if you buy everything new in can get kinda expensive so I'm hoping to score a cheap cylinder and other parts somewhere.  I'll be watching for your DIY version as a Plan B.
> 
> Are you going to add a bypass for the needle valve?  Everyone uses a one way valve so you can lift the saw, but I was planning on adding a button valve bypass so you can lower the saw quickly without opening the needle valve.



I hadn't thought of that, but it is a good idea. I think I will use a ball valve for that so as not to be able to accidentally lower the saw though. Thanks for the idea.

Mark Frazier


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## DoogieB (Dec 5, 2014)

The valve that I was looking at was a spring-loaded, normally closed valve, so you would have to hold the button down to operate the bypass.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#6790t42/=uw624z

But if I already had a ball valve, I would use that.  As you said, this stuff adds up quick.  I don't want to spend more on the down-feed than I spent on the whole saw.


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## Mark_f (Dec 6, 2014)

mark_f said:


> I know there are tons of band saw modifications and post about them on here and everywhere else. After tuning up my old 4 x 6 band saw and getting it to be the metal eating beast it should be, I decided to do some upgrades. I searched the net and found enough upgrade sites and write ups to keep me reading for a month. After hours of looking ( and most of them are listed somewhere on this site also) I picked out the ones I thought were best and started implementing them on my saw. I thought maybe a write up with all the mods done to one saw in one write up would be of interest to anyone who is new to them or is thinking of improving their " saw kit" they purchased. I did a thread on here about setting the tension, choosing the blade, the feed and speed of the blade. that all makes the saw cut. these mods make it a pleasure to use.
> 
> My saw is very old, more than twenty five years. The first thing I did was strip the deck by removing the fences height bolt and cleaning the deck. mine was rusty and pitted so I sanded the deck with 60 grit on an orbital sander being sure to keep the pad flat. the next step was to scrape any high areas of the cast iron and then polish the deck with a coarse wet stone. I checked the deck for flatness and it is now better than when it was new.
> View attachment 89044
> ...



Ok.... since you can't buy a cylinder for a decent price, we gonna try to make it. So off I go to home depot and look for a piece of 1" copper pipe. I almost had a stroke when I saw the price ( I had some 3/4" but it looked a little small). Then I saw It! 2 foot piece of 1 1/4" schedule 40 PVC pipe for $3. Grabbed it up along with $2 worth of o-rings and headed home with my prize.

I cut two blocks of aluminum for end caps and machined o-ring grooves to match the pipe, some holes for through bolts to hold it all together, a piece of 5/16" drill rod for the shaft, and a little piece of aluminum round machined with o-ring grooves for the piston. And this is what I ended up with.


I still have to cut the Through rods to hold it together and drill the oil passages. do that tomorrow, but this looks like it may just work. I will make a print of this once I got it working. But so far I had to spend $5 on this thing.

Mark Frazier





	

		
			
		

		
	
 I needed to use my home made steady rest to true up the ends of the pipe.


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## hman (Dec 7, 2014)

Mark -

Great work on your saw!  



mark_f said:


> I have plans for a chip pan to catch the chips



I've had great success with a 14" stainless steel "mud pan" from Lowes (look in the drywall tools section).  Lowes is about a dollar cheaper than HD for that size.  Nice and long, so it catches swarf all the way past the downstream blade guide, yet it doesn't stick out to the side very far.  Welded seams, light weight, very sturdy.

Mount an aluminum or thin steel deflector inside the saw, to guide out the swarf that falls into the groove under the blade.  The notches in my deflector allow repositioning the pan when the saw is in vertical mode.  The mud pan hooks under the deflector and rests on the punched angle (handy for storing setup tools) below.


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## acourtjester (Dec 7, 2014)

Great looking on/off switch assembly you have :jester:


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## hman (Dec 7, 2014)

acourtjester said:


> Great looking on/off switch assembly you have


Thanks!  I've had a toggle switch or two fail.  Buttons are from eBay and there's a small relay in the box scabbed onto the motor.


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## Mark_f (Dec 8, 2014)

mark_f said:


> Ok.... since you can't buy a cylinder for a decent price, we gonna try to make it. So off I go to home depot and look for a piece of 1" copper pipe. I almost had a stroke when I saw the price ( I had some 3/4" but it looked a little small). Then I saw It! 2 foot piece of 1 1/4" schedule 40 PVC pipe for $3. Grabbed it up along with $2 worth of o-rings and headed home with my prize.
> 
> I cut two blocks of aluminum for end caps and machined o-ring grooves to match the pipe, some holes for through bolts to hold it all together, a piece of 5/16" drill rod for the shaft, and a little piece of aluminum round machined with o-ring grooves for the piston. And this is what I ended up with.
> View attachment 89149
> ...



Ok.. as you know I been working on a hydraulic feed cylinder for my 4 x 6 band saw. 



	

		
			
		

		
	
 These are the parts for this system. I made my own check valve (they are just too expensive and my budget is really tight right now). If it doesn't work good enough , I will break down and buy one I guess.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 This is the cylinder assembled. It came out really nice , hope it works.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 This is the cylinder and control assembly ready to fill with oil and test. it seems to work with air , but I think my check valve leaks just a little. things may be just fine with oil. The next step is to fill with oil and try on the saw. I hope to do that this week.

Mark Frazier


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## darkzero (Dec 8, 2014)

mark_f said:


> I have plans for a chip pan to catch the chips





hman said:


> I've had great success with a 14" stainless steel "mud pan" from Lowes (look in the drywall tools section).....Mount an aluminum or thin steel deflector inside the saw, to guide out the swarf that falls into the groove under the blade



hman, that's pretty nice, I like it.

I also made a chip pan for my Enco 4x6 (sold it this year) but much more simpler. It was just a pull out removable tray.


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## Mark_f (Dec 8, 2014)

mark_f said:


> Ok.. as you know I been working on a hydraulic feed cylinder for my 4 x 6 band saw.
> 
> View attachment 89375
> 
> ...




I made a t nut for the fence adjustment. Now there will be no more reaching under the saw with a wrench. this is so much easier.


	

		
			
		

		
	
 I think I'll make a tall bolt with a Tommy bar like the other fence has.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 This is why I put those threaded holes in the table. It is so much easier and faster to cut small parts the vise can't hold.


Mark Frazier


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## Mark_f (Dec 8, 2014)

I just put one of those "power twist" link belts on my band saw and it is the single most important and best improvement I have done yet. the saw runs so much smoother and is really quiet now. It's hard to believe it is the same saw. I never would have thought that a simple belt could make such a difference.

Mark Frazier


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## outsider347 (Dec 8, 2014)

Mark
I was thinking the same about getting one for my saw
Where did you buy yours?
I was thinking about getting one from the local china freight


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## darkzero (Dec 8, 2014)

mark_f said:


> I just put one of those "power twist" link belts on my band saw and it is the single most important and best improvement I have done yet. the saw runs so much smoother and is really quiet now. It's hard to believe it is the same saw. I never would have thought that a simple belt could make such a difference.
> 
> Mark Frazier



Aren't they great? They don't always benefit every machine but when they do they make a big difference. I put one on my 4x6 bandsaw also & loved it. I have them on my lathe & air compressor also. I even had them on my old HF belt sander & mini lathe. Haven't put one on my 7x12 bandsaw but I will one day.


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## Mark_f (Dec 8, 2014)

outsider347 said:


> Mark
> I was thinking the same about getting one for my saw
> Where did you buy yours?
> I was thinking about getting one from the local china freight



You can get one at harbor freight for twenty bucks ( I think 2 feet) but the best buy was on Amazon. Those things go for about $10 a foot. I found FOUR FEET for $20 on Amazon with free shipping :ups: I have enough left over for another one.

Mark Frazier


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## Ebel440 (Dec 8, 2014)

From th  drawing on the valve body I'm guessing your check valve is a ball type? If you used a ball bearing you can replace it with a rubber one it may stop the leaking if that's where the leak is. MSC sells them I think


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## Mark_f (Dec 8, 2014)

Ebel440 said:


> From th  drawing on the valve body I'm guessing your check valve is a ball type? If you used a ball bearing you can replace it with a rubber one it may stop the leaking if that's where the leak is. MSC sells them I think




Yes, I used a ball bearing. had a hard time finding that. I will look for the rubber one. The leakage is small and with air. Oil may not leak as bad. Last resort, I just buy a check valve.


Mark


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## Chip (Dec 8, 2014)

Did you try to seat the ball by way of a light/moderate hammer smack using a metal rod squared up against the ball bearing?


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## John Hasler (Dec 9, 2014)

Chip said:


> Did you try to seat the ball by way of a light/moderate hammer smack using a metal rod squared up against the ball bearing?



That is the recommended way of seating balls when rebuilding some kinds of hydraulic valves.  You should throw away the ball that you use.


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## markknx (Dec 9, 2014)

Mark, thanks for this thread. A lot of your mods were stock on my black bull 4x 6. but I do need to do something with the movable vice jaw and the crank for it I like your bushing and raised tommy bar bolt. Mark


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## Mark_f (Dec 9, 2014)

Chip said:


> Did you try to seat the ball by way of a light/moderate hammer smack using a metal rod squared up against the ball bearing?



Not yet , but going to try it. 


Thanks,

Mark


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## Mark_f (Dec 11, 2014)

mark_f said:


> Ok.. as you know I been working on a hydraulic feed cylinder for my 4 x 6 band saw.
> 
> View attachment 89375
> 
> ...




Well..... I finished the hydraulic down feed cylinder for my saw. You guys were right, I seated the check valve ball with a good hammer smack and it works OK now. I filled it with oil and it works good in both directions. The flow control is good and regulates the speed well. There is how ever one problem...... I don't think I need this thing right now. When I put the new belt on the saw , I put the PROPER length on and it relocated the motor position to where it should be ( the old belt was 2" too long). This shifted the saw arm weight and now I have the spring disconnected and the cylinder sitting on the bench. I have to hang a weight on the saw now to get the cutting force I want. WHO KNEW? 

I will probably use it If I need to cut tubing , but don't need it cutting solid stock. I'm thinking put it back on and leave it disconnected and just put the pin in the clevis when I need to lighten the feed.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 This is the completed cylinder. I filled it with some manual transmission oil left from my Jeep. I don't have the Jeep anymore but had this $45 a quart. oil left around. might as well put it to some use.


Mark Frazier


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## hman (Dec 12, 2014)

It would probably be OK to leave the cylinder attached all the time.  

Remember - the cylinder is just there to control the RATE at which the saw lowers itself.  It won't affect downward blade pressure, assuming that some point in the fluid circuit is open to air.  

If you're cutting thick metal, the saw's downward motion will be limited by its ability to cut.  The cylinder's flow valve shouldn't slow things down any further, unless you have it closed way down.


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## Mark_f (Dec 12, 2014)

hman said:


> It would probably be OK to leave the cylinder attached all the time.
> 
> Remember - the cylinder is just there to control the RATE at which the saw lowers itself.  It won't affect downward blade pressure, assuming that some point in the fluid circuit is open to air.
> 
> If you're cutting thick metal, the saw's downward motion will be limited by its ability to cut.  The cylinder's flow valve shouldn't slow things down any further, unless you have it closed way down.



Yea, that makes sense. As long as the fall rate of speed is greater than the cutting rate, the cylinder will have no effect. Thanks, I missed that in my thinking.

Mark Frazier


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## road (Dec 12, 2014)

Wow,  You amaze me Mark !   

The cylinder looks great.


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## Mark_f (Dec 12, 2014)

road said:


> Wow,  You amaze me Mark !
> 
> The cylinder looks great.


:thanks:

Thanks for that, but it is really simple. Just general machining practices. All done on the lathe and drill press ( and the saw I made it for). My point to it is: A hydraulic cylinder $250 or air cylinder about $50 and valves another $50 plus all the fittings. It will easily cost a guy $100 or more to do this upgrade to their saw. I wanted to show you can do it for a more reasonable amount. This cylinder cost me $15 for fittings. THAT'S IT. everything else was gathered from scraps from other jobs or just small pieces lying around. My goal as I have said many times is to show other budget strapped machinists it doesn't take a lot of money to have good tooling and accessories for your shop.

I don't throw anything away. For example, when I made the thread dial, I scrapped three gears before I figured out how to do it. Those gear blanks were a piece of good quality aluminum about 1.4" OD and about an inch long. They had messed up teeth cut on them and were useless. One of those gear blanks was machined to make the packing gland on top of this cylinder. Most guys I know would have thrown them out. I try to use even the small scraps.

Mark Frazier


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## road (Dec 12, 2014)

I am the same with defects or error items .  

I must have 4 trays of small pieces , all separated brass, alu, steel, stainless.  It's my go to spot for projects

I didnt see a blade brush on your saw yet.  any ideas on that ?  

Here is the one I made from a scrap of aluminum (no milling machine).   I need to change the magnet to a pair of 3/8" neo's for more holding power. 

The bushes will be bolted to the sides  (used tooth brushes).


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## Mark_f (Dec 12, 2014)

road said:


> I am the same with defects or error items .
> 
> I must have 4 trays of small pieces , all separated brass, alu, steel, stainless.  It's my go to spot for projects
> 
> ...



Yes , I am building one. You will like it. I built one that used tooth brushes similar to yours, and though it worked I found a better design.  my new one uses a rotating brass brush 1" to 1 1/2" diameter on a 1/4" shaft supported by small ball bearings in a small 1"by 1" aluminum block. It mounts to existing bolt holes on the saw frame. Watch for it soon.

Mark Frazier


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## Mark_f (Dec 13, 2014)

mark_f said:


> Yes , I am building one. You will like it. I built one that used tooth brushes similar to yours, and though it worked I found a better design.  my new one uses a rotating brass brush 1" to 1 1/2" diameter on a 1/4" shaft supported by small ball bearings in a small 1"by 1" aluminum block. It mounts to existing bolt holes on the saw frame. Watch for it soon.
> 
> Mark Frazier




 Here is the first part of the blade brush for the band saw. This is a rotating brush driven by running against the saw blade. It will be mounted close enough to just brush the blade teeth with little to almost no pressure and clean the chips off.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 These are the main parts. the 1" x 1" x 3/4" block of aluminum is drilled and bored to accept the shaft and 3 little bearings. The bearings are some high speed ball bearings I got off eBay some time ago. I got twenty of these bearings for $6. The 1" O.D. brush came from Northern Tool Co. off eBay. I got 4 brushes four $4 and free delivery. The shaft is a piece of 3/8" steel round , 1 1/2 inches long, turned on one end for the bearings and drilled and tapped on the other end for a 1/4" bolt to hold the brush on. I cut wrench flats on the shaft behind the brush to fit an 11/32" wrench.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 This is the brush assembly. There are three ball bearings stacked on the shaft to support the brush. This thing doesn't turn fast and there is little to no pressure on the brush. It just touches the blade teeth to remove the chips and keep them from building up in the saw. Tomorrow I will make the little bracket to hold it on the saw.

When finished and mounted , I will post the photos and the print so anyone else may have it.



Mark Frazier


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## Mark_f (Dec 14, 2014)

mark_f said:


> Here is the first part of the blade brush for the band saw. This is a rotating brush driven by running against the saw blade. It will be mounted close enough to just brush the blade teeth with little to almost no pressure and clean the chips off.
> 
> View attachment 89773
> 
> ...



Ok... the chip brush is finished.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 I made a collar for the back of the shaft from a small piece of brass. It holds the bearings on the shaft. I also made an aluminum plate to cover the back of the housing an hold the bearings in. These are all fastened with 4-40 SHCS.


	

		
			
		

		
	
 A piece of aluminum angle is mounted to the housing to mount the assembly to the saw. Slots in the angle allow for adjustment. The brush only has to lightly touch the blade to knock all the chips off.


	

		
			
		

		
	
 I have the assembly clamped to the saw to drill the mounting holes.


	

		
			
		

		
	
 This turned out really well . It may be a little over the top in construction and effort , but is actually simple to make and I wanted something of quality. ( I did the tooth brush blade claeaner. I just wanted something a little classier).

Mark Frazier

This pretty much brings this thread to a close. Now on to something else.  :rubbinghands:


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