# SB ( new to me gonna need your help!



## Vince_O (Mar 16, 2014)

OK guys a few of you know Ive been on the hunt for a larger lathe to replace my Atlas 6 and have had some bought out from under me and some I was just too late. Well I got this one today. It has QCGB, removed from unit, Taper atachment, Phase 2 tool holder, outside jaws, 110 motor removed to haul in the rain, tail stock with live center and drill chuck. I dont know anything else about it but when he started it up it was quiet as can be its real tight and smooth. I tried to look for damages and wear as in so many posts Ive read hear. Heres some pics of the unit. A few guards are missing and broke, the tensioner is broke and home made one in its place. 

Questions

can someone tell me when it was made?
dose it have auto cross feed?
where can I download a manual for it so I can print it off? 

Any other help will be greatly apreacited! I know as I start tearing into it to clean it Ill be having more questions that I will post.


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## drs23 (Mar 16, 2014)

Good for you. Glad you were finally in the position to pull the trigger. Several others here have rebuilt their SBs so you're certainly in the right place.



> where can I download a manual for it so I can print it off?




I've seen this question several times and the general response has been to get the SB book from the same guy that sells the wicks and stuff that you will be needing. I'm sure Greg and others will see your post and reply more knowledgeably than I'm able.

Have fun and like you know, we love pictures!


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## Halligan142 (Mar 16, 2014)

Was the gearbox removed by you or did it not come with it?    The guards and tensioner are easy enough to find.  Also is that a broken tooth on the bull gear?   All in all looks like you got a decent machine.  If you really wanted to you could probably sell the taper attachment for more than you paid for the lathe.  Yes it does have powered crossfeed.  That lever with the pull knob on the apron selects cross or longitudinal feed.  A good place to start is cleaning the grime and replacing felts.  There is a rebuild kit on e-bay that comes with a book.  You'll want that one.  Oh and you want the kit for a "Model A"  You also already have a threading dial and by what I can see large dials which is always a plus.  Also it looks from the pictures like a long bed.  If your countershaft has 2 steps on the large shaft pulley then you have a 12 speed lathe if it has only 1 step it's a 6 speed.


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## jocat54 (Mar 16, 2014)

I would go here http://www.wswells.com/serial_number.html and look for a seial number that is close to yours (I think it is about a 1946 year model).
Lots of good info. http://www.wswells.com/

Have fun.


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## Vince_O (Mar 17, 2014)

Halligan 

Yes it is 12 speed, he showed me all the gears, and man when its running slow, its SLOW! Theres a tooth missing in the bull gear, is this a big problem? 

He removed the gear box about 10 years ago, he cant remember why. And to be honest I belive him hes kindaof a spacy guy. There was 5 lathes in the shop 2 bridge ports all old all used but clean and well taken care of. I couldnt get the one side of the gear box to move so Im guessing something is broken in theres or wedged, but what do I know. 

I knew as soon as I saw the taper atachment I got a good deal. I know I could sell thatat and make my money back dang need twice for what I paid for it.


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## chuckorlando (Mar 17, 2014)

Soon as you sale it you will need to turn 5 diffrent tappers. ahahahaha

Nice machine. I'm sure you got years of fun to be had there


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## Vince_O (Mar 17, 2014)

Ok cleaning things up here at work, missing the banjo and gears for the QCGB :angry:, but Im sure Ill find what I need on Epay


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## GK1918 (Mar 17, 2014)

Vince_O said:


> Halligan
> 
> Yes it is 12 speed, he showed me all the gears, and man when its running slow, its SLOW! Theres a tooth missing in the bull gear, is this a big problem?
> 
> ...



Hi Vince dont worry about the chiped gear thats easy with a tooth implant.  My hang up is why in hell he removed the gear box, thats what makes 9A's
shine.   Just like a neighbor friend, a sweet perfect 1956 Crown Victoria with power windows, seats, windows and factory air.  First thing he did is remove
the A/C  YOU JUST gotta be kidding????   Violating the ten comandments  space shot?  we call em brain dead scientist's   " brain dead's"  ......
samuel


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## Vince_O (Mar 17, 2014)

Samuel

We found this today at work. I made a vid for you tube when it uploads Ill post the like to it. Look at this gear if you can see it. Im thinking someone changed gears while it was still moving and stacked them, damaging one. Theres a real hard spot in the rotation. Maybe trashed the bango gears too?




- - - Updated - - -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxT50zMlgJc

- - - Updated - - -

Heres the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxT50zMlgJc


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## Halligan142 (Mar 17, 2014)

Looks like you can file that one tooth back into shape and knock off the high spots and you'll be good to go.   Don't think that would have broken the banjo.  More than likely it was misplaced over the years.  I still recommend a good clean and re wicking or at least check the easily accessible wicks for condition.  They're probably the consistency of stone.


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## Vince_O (Mar 17, 2014)

Halligan Im taking your advise :thumbsup:

Ok so the boys and I took the cross slide off tonight. Im taking it to work and cleaning it good! Im pointing to what looks like a resovor do I need to open it up and wash out? Im guessing theres a wick in there as theres a cup to oil.


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## Vince_O (Mar 17, 2014)

Also looking at the head stock looks like its held on like a tail stock is mounted. Looks like theres a nut under the blade of my screw driver to loosen the head stock. Then slide it off the ways. Also my oldest son, 11 says Dad why dont we paint this. I trned and said " dont know want too?" Ok is his response. Im still out to lunch on painting it, I hate to paint.


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## Hawkeye (Mar 17, 2014)

I think the reservoir covers the clutch. I'd open it up carefully and clean and inspect it.


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## Halligan142 (Mar 18, 2014)

Yes the clutch is under that cover.  It's a friction clutch. It has two shoes that spread out and lock the gear in place when you tighten the star wheel.  Be careful when taking the flat head screw out of the star wheel.  It's left hand thread.  The headstock is held on with 2 bolts and 2 clamps similar to the tail stock.  Loosen the bolts and slide it off.  If you're going to pull the spindle you'll want to do it before you take the headstock off the lathe.  You'll need the weight of the bed for leverage.  When you reinstall it just be sure that the bottom of the headstock and the bed where it mounts are completely clean.  You don't want so much as a grain of sand throwing off that fit.


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## Vince_O (Mar 18, 2014)

Watching the second part of your vid, the "tree" is pressed on? They dont turn independant of each other? 

We watched it at lunch and we all agreed that when the vid sped up we thought you had a shop mouse running a small jack hammer putting the shaft back in!  :jester:  

But we all agreed that your real good at explaining things.


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## Halligan142 (Mar 19, 2014)

There is a pin that links all the gears together.  That pin also slides into the wide gear that's the smallest at the end.  That gear has a taper pin to join it to the shaft.  The shaft itself rotates. Not the gears on the shaft.


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## pjf134 (Mar 19, 2014)

Vince,
  Look at my album pjf134 and you will see some breakdowns and some before and after pics that might help you out. The model A has letters after the serial no. to give info like spindle size and gear box type ect. and your serial no. don't.The JAN means something else. I would say that someone converted it to a gear box type.
Paul


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## Vince_O (Mar 19, 2014)

Paul thank you 

Ok heres my apron Im guessing everything looks ok?


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## pjf134 (Mar 20, 2014)

Vince,
 The apron looks good and the half nuts, for threading, looks good too. Make sure you get all the dirt out and the felts are good too. See how clean mine is. Make sure the cover at the bottom is leak free or else you will have oil all over your bench.
Paul


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## Vince_O (Mar 20, 2014)

Paul

Did you take the brake / clutch out of yours for the feed? If so how dose it come out? Also I looked last night on SB's site for the lettering like you said, but came up with nothing. I do some more cleaning on it and I am getting new felts for the machine. As easy as this has been Im thinking on pulling the spindle out and doing it too. 

On another note hows thinks in Bridgeville? My buddy up on May ave sent me some pics a few weeks ago and told me he was sick of snow! Sounds like its been a rough year for you guys. Im thinking of coming home this summer if I do Ill look you up as I stay at his place.


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## pjf134 (Mar 20, 2014)

Vince,
 The apron was working good and looked good so I did not tear it down, but I do remember some spring clips on the inside shafts that fit into a groove. My main problem with the lathe was the gearbox being stuck and not moving at all because of the oil was dried up and the taper pins on the shafts were facing the wrong way, so I had to rotate the gears to get the pins out and do a teardown, clean and paint to get everything working again. The headstock was easy to take apart. First remove locking nut on the banjo side of spindle then put a piece of plywood on the bed under where the chuck should be and knock out the spindle toward the tailstock using a big block of wood and a big hammer or make a puller with a rod thru the spindle. There is a keyway on the spindle so when it moves it can go easy and move fast and land on the bed. Remove bolts and gears that might be in the way and the backgear shaft. The gearbox is tough to work on because of room inside of it. If you do take it apart right now be aware that the tumbler arms are right and left and the shafts use taper pins. I hope you get the gears fixed before too long.

 Bridgeville has been cold all winter with a little snow every other day it seams and just north or south of us has been getting a lot of snow. I live about one mile south of Bridgeville off Washington Pike on Melrose Court, your buddy should know the street. Let me know when you are coming up this summer. I know in July I will be going to Columbus for a few days to a big car show and might have to drive one of the classics to there.
Paul

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=1617&tab=3  Serial no. 186,514 is from March 1947 and 150,000 is from 1944 after 47 they used the letters after the number like mine.


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## Vince_O (Mar 21, 2014)

I got everything back on last night, alighned the tail stock with the chuck, it was off pretty good, but maybe just from the last job it did. Filled the the oil cup on the far left side, dont know what its called but works the forward and reverse on the lead screw, no oil leaked out so that wick must be good. Im going to still put all new wicks in the unit, and theres no felts left where the cross slide or carrage rides on the ways. But after cleaning everything, its still smooth like before I cleaned it. Also took the cushman chuck apart and cleaned it and it was real clean and smooth. So next step is rebuild the gear box. Ill watch the vids a few more times and wait on my kit.


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## Redirish (Mar 21, 2014)

Vince_O said:


> I got everything back on last night, alighned the tail stock with the chuck, it was off pretty good, but maybe just from the last job it did. Filled the the oil cup on the far left side, dont know what its called but works the forward and reverse on the lead screw, no oil leaked out so that wick must be good. Im going to still put all new wicks in the unit, and theres no felts left where the cross slide or carrage rides on the ways. But after cleaning everything, its still smooth like before I cleaned it. Also took the cushman chuck apart and cleaned it and it was real clean and smooth. So next step is rebuild the gear box. Ill watch the vids a few more times and wait on my kit.



I have S/N 178388, made in 1946, so yours is close to that. During that time there were no letters after the S/N. I sent $25.00 to Grizzly.com and got a copy of the original invoice, I think you can still do that, if you want to. Does the QCGB have the 40 tooth and 56 tooth gears on it? Reason I ask is that I have a spare 56 and also a spare 80 tooth that has been repaired but don't have the bolt and spacer the 80 mounts on. Also have(I think), a used(repaired) banjo that is usable.


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## Jeff in Pa (Mar 22, 2014)

Congrats Vince :drink2:   You did quite well for the money spent.    

 Do I need to see if I have larger tools bits for you since you upgraded from the Atlas?  

 Jeff


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## Vince_O (Mar 22, 2014)

Jeff

First things first, need to get the gears, looks like Red Irish will help me out on this part. I bought some tools that were too big for the atlas, you may remember our talk about the green stones to sharpen them. Im sure Ill like the ones I can grind myself better, but who knows now that I have a larger machine I may just use this type.

Tomorrow Im going to list some of my command stuff to get it out of the way. Saving 2 engs as back up if the eng ever goes out on the welder. Theres no NF stuff left, I dont have much of anything left LOL! Its bad when I have to call Ray for parts


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## Jeff in Pa (Mar 22, 2014)

I was at Ray's this morning doing some "horse trading" for Cub Cadet parts  :roflmao:

Good to hear you're getting parts lined up.    You'll be very happy with this machine, SB makes good stuff.


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 23, 2014)

You have been getting good advise from the other fellas, they seem to have beat me to it, LOL Nice find, a little work and some parts sourcing and you'll have a fine machine. I will be following along to watch her come together.


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## itsme_Bernie (Mar 23, 2014)

Good purchase Vince!   Looks like you are well along your repair and refurb.
Definitely get the rewicking and instruction manual on Ebay.  Also easy sources of the Vactra 2 and light spindle oil you'll want to run this forever.
I wouldn't go crazy about the chipped tooth on the bull gear unless you were going to have the spindle off anyway.  Then you can find them or whole spindles, on ebay.
As Redirish mentioned above, it's fun to get the printout from Grizzly with your original build ticket/order sheet from South Bend.  Print it and frame it near your machine.  
By the way, I don't like repaint in either!  I like to enjoy the original patina!
Awesome project!

Bernie


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## Vince_O (Mar 24, 2014)

Its alive! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thg6uPGu_NE

Oh I cant wait till I can use the power feeds! I turned a piece of rod by hand and its soooo much smoother than my atlas! Still have some more work to do but Im like my kids at Christmas!


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 24, 2014)

Very cool!


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## Vince_O (Mar 26, 2014)

Well the wick kit should be here tomorrow but I have a few more questions. As I said before Im missing the banjo and gears, but a member here has stepped up to help me out. I think Im still missing something, what makes the lead screw turn?


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## pjf134 (Mar 26, 2014)

Vince,
  The gear train from the spindle to the gearbox is needed for the leadscrew to turn after you select the right holes to engauge in the gearbox.
When you install the wicks in the headstock make sure you use a piece of wire in the small holes in the casting to hold down the wicks as you install the spindle. Only do one item at a time or else you will have many items not knowing where they go and take lots of pictures before tearing apart.
Paul


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 26, 2014)

After you slide the leadscrew into the gear box there is a gear, a key, and 2 nuts that go on the threaded end of the shaft.


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## Kroll (Mar 26, 2014)

Mine is the single tumbler,but I think they may be similar.Just a guess,if not disregard----


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## Vince_O (Mar 31, 2014)

At lunch today took the gear box apart, took about 15 min everything came right out, except the punch on one hole, LOL 

On one of my wheels I have nylon, going to clean up the gears real well and put it back togeather tomorrow. I got a new lead screw gear off epay today too.


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## Vince_O (Mar 31, 2014)

Got the gears cleaned up tonight and polished my shafts :shush::lmao: What I thought was light rust was really some fresh anti size on the gears. The brass or bronze bearings look new. Filed the chipped teeth, so I hop all goes easy back togeather. 

Red Irish made me the gears and had a banjo for me, and got the lead screw gear, and the chip guard off epay. I hope by this time next week it will all be togeather.


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## Vince_O (Apr 3, 2014)

Started reasembly of the gear box today and the first shaft I put in seems real tight. The shaft turned easy before I took it apart. Could this be the new felt running on the shaft?


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## pjf134 (Apr 3, 2014)

Vince,
 If you are tight on the long shaft it might be that the one gear on the end is a little too thick and belongs on the other shaft. Two gears are almost the same except for thickness. Another reason could be the shaft and gears are not clean enough. They have to be real clean to move right. I do not think the felts would cause it as long as the shaft slid in ok. I had to clean my shafts and gears real good for them to work right and they did work when the shaft was out of the box. Just something to try since I did not know what you did or how clean were the gears and shafts. Mine are shinny and real clean before they worked right.
Paul


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## Vince_O (Apr 9, 2014)

Little up date. Im not making head way on the gear box just too busy. As soon as I get a min at work, I have to leave it. So I moved it to the house where I can get something done. Hopefully tomorrow. 

I did get a nice care package from Red Irish today! :ups:


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## Vince_O (Apr 10, 2014)

So tonight I started putting the QCGB back togeather, its binding worse that when I started! :angry:

Im tearing it apart again tomorrow and start over. The shaft that has the tree of stacked gears on it seems to be the problem.


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## Halligan142 (Apr 11, 2014)

Are you sure it's the shaft with the gear tree?  The gears next to the tree links with a set of gears on the small shaft with the collar.  It may be the gear mesh here that's screwing you up.  If you haven't already I would go shaft my shaft during disassembly and figure out if you are binding from the gears meshing together, the shafts in their respective bronze bushings, or the gears and bearings in the handle themselves.  If you have everything out except that shaft with the tree of gears on it and you spin it and it still sticks you have a length or bushing issue.  There are two gears that look almost identical.  A large gear with a connected smaller diameter gear.  If you look there are a couple of these, but look  closely and you'll notice on some of them the smaller diameter gear is thinner.  Another one has a thicker large diameter gear and a thinner small diameter gear  I suspect you have these in the wrong place. 

 It should look like this:


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## Vince_O (Apr 11, 2014)

Halligan

Im glad you chimed in as Im useing your vid to go off of. I think you may be on to something. Ill double check your pic against mine as once again I got side tracked tonight. Seeing that I took it apart they way it was, and it was binding to begin with, I may be just dupclating the problem! 

Also what size roll pins did you use, I wanna do the same thing. Im not liking these pins. 

Thanks Vince


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## Halligan142 (Apr 13, 2014)

I believe the roll pins were either 1/8 " or 3/32".  I sized them as close to the larger hole of the taper pin hole in the gear.  Also I couldn't get the exact length.  The ones locally were nominal sizes and either too short or too long.  I just got the longer one and ground it to length


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## Vince_O (Apr 13, 2014)

Halligan

I have my gear box sitting on the dinner table comparining mine and yours. As I doge name calling as my wife just loves it when I do this, the gear boxes look the same. Im really leaning to the brass inserts are a tad too long. With fresh anti size and real nice looking felts and bronze bushings Im thinking someone was rebuilding this and never put it back on. The guy I got it from has a groupe of guys that hang out and build "projects". There is a bunch of engeers that hag out there making plastic injection mold stuff and there was 5 lathes and 2 bridge ports in the room / hang out. Im going to contune on with this the way it is. The binding may not be much, as I can easly turn it by fingers, so it may just be wear but Ive never been around this stuff so I cant say. 

I got some roll pins out of the tool room and Im cutting them off with my air grinder. Thanks for your help!


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## Vince_O (Apr 13, 2014)

Well I put the gear box on and welll it kinda works. The left side gears work well and goe in all the slots A, B, C ect. 

The gears to the right..............well............ not so well. I can get the lever into 2 of them, like the lever wont lift high enough. once its in the 2 gears well the gear box is so tight it will stall the lathe, in the back gears! 

Nothing chrashed or got hurt. Im pulling it back off to see what shaft is bent, Im guessing the one with the tree of gears on it. 

More news at 11, just dont know what day that will be LOL


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## Vince_O (Apr 15, 2014)

*I WANNA SAY THANK YOU TO EVERYONE FOR THE HELP!
*
I found the shaft that holds the tree was bent. Im guessing from beating the pins out. The ends of the shaft was mushroomed so I shaved it and I can at least cut threads now! I did something a little differant, I drilled out the center hole a bit bigger and used my air hammer to put the pin back in. This was a whole lot easier than beating it out and in. Also I took one of my bits for the air hammer and cut it down so it would punch the center pin out. I feel this is a lot more forgiving on the shaft. I used roll pin on the center shaft and the taper ones on the rest. 

Also after taking everything back apart and looking at the repair book and  Halligan's photo I found that one of the gears on the arms was in backwards. The book calls for them to be in a center line. After flipping the gears I can now get them into every position on the QCGB. Now when my How to run a late book comes Ill be doing some serious reading. 

This will be such a big help to me in my hobby of garden tractors, that I dont know how I lived with out it. Once again thanks to everyone for the help, this is a great group of guys and a wonderful site. I look forward to many years of use and picture posting!


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## Duey C (Apr 15, 2014)

Yeehaw! You really ARE cutting threads with that new-fangled quick-change box! My primary lathe is so old, I don't believe it was an option...
Like that song from one of the Beatles: "With a little help..."
You have a keeper Vince!


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