# Advice on possible purchase.



## Raydel (Nov 18, 2013)

Hello to all those in the know: ;-)

I have an an opportunity to buy a SB 9" Model A lathe.
From the photos it seems to be in very good shape, but
I intend to invest some "elbow grease" to bring it up to
refurbished condition if the deal goes through. I'll be
going to view the machine later this week.
Unit has change gears, three jaw chuck, TS drill chuck,
steady and follow rests and a few other tools/accessories.
Asking price is well under a grand Canadian.
Would appreciate your thoughts and guidance.
So sorry, no serial numbers yet, I'll know more by Thursday.

Thanks to all that reply.
Raydel.

P.S. I'm new here and haven't figured out how to post pics yet.

Here is a copy of the sellers ad:

South Bend 9" Model A "Precision" 1952-version with an "English-threads" gearbox and rear-drive countershaft. Note that, while much appears to be unaltered in comparison with earlier versions, this lathe has longer, heavier and more robust bed feet. Oddly, during 1947 (at a time that seems to have coincided with a new number system in march of that year) , a batch of lathes was produced that might be described as an "interim" model with longer, convex-ended feet and a bed that must have been from a new mould. This bed, which was used for a short production run only, lacked the pronounced rib along the lower edges, had a "square" profile in cross section (in comparison to the original round style) and (most distinctive of all) the word South Bed cast into the top face of two bed cross-ribs. After this the later style feet were adopted and the bed reverted to the older style.


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## itsme_Bernie (Nov 18, 2013)

What advise are you looking for specifically?

Bernie


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## stevecmo (Nov 18, 2013)

Raydel,

Something doesn't sound right.  You say it's a Model A and has change gears.  A Model A has a quick change gear box for threading.  A Model C uses change gears.  I don't see anything change gears in what you indicated was the seller's ad.  Is there more to the ad?

A picture would sure help.  You need to be a little careful as a lot of these old machines get "customized" by previous owners throughout the years.

Steve


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## Maxx (Nov 18, 2013)

I found this ad that was pulled and it is priced at $2,000 and is in Norfolk, Virginia.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-South-...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## Raydel (Nov 18, 2013)

Steve:
My most humble apologies, I did mean Quick change gearbox, not change gears.

Maxx: The link you supplied looks like the same machine. The one I'm considering is a bit cleaner.

Here's another: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-South-Bend-Lathe-9-Model-A-3-1-2-Bed-/330972359384

I talked with the seller today and agreed to look over the Lathe on Thursday. It's a 2 hr drive away.
Based on what I see here, if it isn't abused in any way, I may just pull the trigger and buy it.
It was lightly used in the past, but has been sitting idle for over a year.
I'm afraid I might get involved in refurbishing the machine rather than using it to cut metal,
but that's just me. ;-)

Will keep you all updated later in the week.
Trying to upload the seller's photo of the SB 9A, hope it works.

Cheers.
Raydel


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## stevecmo (Nov 19, 2013)

Raydel,

No apologies necessary, just trying to make sure you know what you're getting.  )

The ebay link that you posted shows a price of $2,165 USD.  That's pretty steep.  The pic's show a wood tool box.  Any idea what all is in it?  If it's loaded with tooling goodies, the price may be OK.  How about the bench it sits on - is that included?

Kind of funny that he would show catalog pictures mixed in with a couple of pic's of the actual lathe.  May be trying to hide something, maybe not.  The tooling will be key to the price.

Good luck!

Steve

Edit:  OK I see that the tool chest is NOT included in the price.  I assume the contents is NOT included either.  Yikes!  He's too proud of his lathe.  He seems to think he has a rare lathe with a special bed and feet.  I'm not that familiar with SB's but the feet don't look special to me.  You might join/post over on the Yahoo SB forum.  Jim Benjamin runs the group and knows the different models well.  Steve Wells also contributes there some.

Hope that helps.

Steve


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## Raydel (Nov 19, 2013)

Hi Steve:
I'm not batting very we'll am I? ;-) ;-)
The link I supplied was for Maxx, it was for comparison of a machine like the one I'm going to look at on Thursday. The photo I posted showing two red gas cans below the lathe is the actual one.
It's located about 2 hours drive north of Toronto. The seller is asking $700. He's had it for many years (light use), but said it came from a school. That raises a bit of a red flag. ;-)
Hope my two hour drive is not in vain.  Not much more to say until I see the machine.
Will report back here Thursday evening/night.

Thanks for the input so far.

Cheers,
Raydel


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## GK1918 (Nov 19, 2013)

Raydel,  all I can say is go by your heart feeling.  We have 3.  In constant use.  Not restored just kept up.  No matter what anything
you buy, there is always a better a worse.  I liken these as a Buick, Mercury Oldmobile class of the day.  Good respected machine.  The 9As are a great machine, do anything you wish.  Availability of parts.  And if one comes up locally I wouldnt hesitate one bit, then we will have
four.  And I may add, bending the rules, not being a purest, I will get flack, but in my 40yrs of ownership, my lathes have never seen way oil
this and that oil, its been hardware store regular run of the mill #20 oil.  So if wrong, how come they are still on the job?  Cause they were
quality built in the first place.  So dont go on a guilt trip, just buy it.  

just saying   so what if it came from a school (we all know what that means)  it means in lived in a heated enviorment, it got serviced, it was supervised  BUT
kids do things,  one of my best came from a school oh yea it got crashed, maybe in 1943  but performs perfect....


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## frank r (Nov 19, 2013)

You are getting a steady rest with it and that is worth $150. You are getting a decent deal. Look for broken teeth on all the gears. Take a flashlight with you and examine all the gears. This takes no more than 5 minutes. 

Small gears can be bought on Ebay. The bull gear and back gear teeth can be remachined. It will cost you around $100 for either of these two and that includes shipping. There is a guy on the forums who does this and he does a great job for the price.

That is an interesting table iit is on. Looks like old machine legs with a welded on riser table of some sort.

Don't be afraid if it is dinged up or few teeth are broken, there are so many parts available. But excessive bed wear under the chuck is harder to deal with.


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## Pacer (Nov 19, 2013)

In my part of the country $700 is quite a decent price for a 9A SB and if you know anything about SB's and their huge following, they must be pretty darn good lathes. I sure like them. 

I seem to recall there was a model called a "Heavy 9" or similar, and perhaps this is the case here?? You might go to Tonys vast web site and go to the SB section and see if you can find any on something like a "heavy" 9" Or join the yahoo South Bend site, it has a huge following, and there tons of info floating around on them...

http://lathes.co.uk/


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## Raydel (Nov 21, 2013)

As promised, I went to look at the SB 9" today and have made a decision to pass on the deal.
Took me just over two hours to get there. Very nice guy, we talked for a long time, however,
here's what I found.
The lathe has obviously seen some very hard use. The compound slide had 6-8 huge chunks taken out by the chuck, this caused me to question the integrity of other components.
There was quite a large amount of backlash in the cross slide (almost 1/4"), the slack was in the gears behind the main turning wheel. I also found the change gear levers to be very temperamental, the one on the right (English thread) didn't want to move most of the time. Although there were several other smaller deficiencies, the lathe ran quiet and very smooth. Never tried it for cutting accuracy though. I'm sure a good refurbish and several hundred $$$ would bring it back to precision condition.

It's definitely a fixer upper and I've decided that I don't have the time to invest in refurbishing the unit. It needs lots of TLC and I'd rather find something in better condition that I could use right away and refurbish as time allows. The lathe is located two hours north of Toronto, Canada if anyone in southern Ontario is interested.

Thanks to all who gave me pointers on what to look out for, your tips were invaluable and I'm confident your advice saved me a bundle on additional expense. 

Going to see another one tomorrow, much closer to home, twice the price (and in better shape), loaded with accessories/tools and owned by a machinist/gunsmith. Will report back later.

Cheers,
Raydel


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## Raydel (Nov 21, 2013)

As promised, I went to look at the SB 9" today and have made a decision to pass on the deal.
Took me just over two hours to get there. Very nice guy, we talked for a long time, however,
here's what I found.
The lathe has obviously seen some very hard use. The compound slide had 6-8 huge chunks taken out by the chuck, this caused me to question the integrity of other components.
There was quite a large amount of backlash in the cross slide (almost 1/4"), the slack was in the gears behind the main turning wheel. I also found the change gear levers to be very temperamental, the one on the right (English thread) didn't want to move most of the time. Although there were several other smaller deficiencies, the lathe ran quiet and very smooth. Never tried it for cutting accuracy though. I'm sure a good refurbish and several hundred $$$ would bring it back to precision condition.

It's definitely a fixer upper and I've decided that I don't have the time to invest in refurbishing the unit. It needs lots of TLC and I'd rather find something in better condition that I could use right away and refurbish as time allows. The lathe is located two hours north of Toronto, Canada if anyone in southern Ontario is interested.

Thanks to all who gave me pointers on what to look out for, your tips were invaluable and I'm confident your advice saved me a bundle on additional expense. 

Going to see another one tomorrow, much closer to home, twice the price (and in better shape), loaded with accessories/tools and owned by a machinist/gunsmith. Will report back later.

Cheers,
Raydel


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## Raydel (Nov 22, 2013)

Oops, sorry 'bout the double post.
Raydel.


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## martik777 (Nov 22, 2013)

Hmmmm, I would have bought that in a heartbeat. 

$700 for a 9A is dirt cheap, nothing you mentioned would have cost much, if anything to repair.  A few chunks out of the compound could be filled with jbweld, epoxy or even bondo, it's just cosmetics as long as the t-slot is intact. The stiff QCGB lever would probably be remedied by a good cleaning of the gear box.  Not sure what you meant by "1/4" backlash", it is usually expressed in thousands or portion of rotation - a 1/4 turn is not unusual. Some slack in the handwheel crank is normal on older (even new) lathes. 

Deal killers for me would be a severely worn bed or headstock / spindle bearings, everything else is relatively easy to repair.


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## Raydel (Nov 22, 2013)

I pulled the trigger today: hew:

Went to see another SB 9 (4' bed) and fell in love with it.
Well kept and maintained, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, both steady rests, 
QCTP, 3/8" and 1/2" drill chucks for tail stock, reversible AC motor, 
knurling tool and several tool bits. Can't wait to get the machine home
early next week.

This forum and it's members have been a great resource in helping me to evaluate
a used machine. I originally started looking at something NEW in the bench top
category, but quickly realized that current bench top offerings didn't come close to
old iron as far as quality. E.g. I was recently turned off by poor quality bed castings
and decided to look towards used equipment, this is when I started looking at SB.

Once again, thanks to all who encouraged me to pull the trigger today. 
(And thanks for the nice machine Bob).

Will try try to post a photo or two once I get it home and set up.

Cheers,
Raydel


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## stevecmo (Nov 22, 2013)

Congratulations!  Let the fun begin!!


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## Raydel (Nov 22, 2013)

Thank you Steve.
There's an element of excitement I suppose,
even if it's a 60+ year old toy. 

Cheers.


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## itsme_Bernie (Nov 22, 2013)

Congrats man!  I look forward to seeing pics!
Definitely exciting to be spinning something like that up! 


Bernie


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## Raydel (Nov 22, 2013)

Thanks Bernie.
Cheers.


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## martik777 (Nov 23, 2013)

Congrats! I didn't know lathes were so plentiful there until I checked CL. Lucky to see 1 or 2 a year here 

Looking fwd to pics


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## Raydel (Nov 28, 2013)

*Re: Advice on possible purchase. It's a done deal!*

Picked up the new (old) toy today, man that's a heavy sucker.
Seller helped load it into a rented commercial van and a friend
came over to help unload it. The SB9 is now sitting peacefully
in it's new home in the basement. Will post a few pics when it's 
all put back together.
Question: Has anyone with an SB9 ever relocated the drive motor/pulley 
assembly from behind the headstock to directly underneath the lathe?
The original setup takes up a lot of room and in my 12'X10' workshop,
I seem to be wasting a lot of precious but un-useable space. 
Would appreciate your comments.

Raydel.


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## xalky (Nov 28, 2013)

I don't see how it could be done. The bed is in the way. I'm looking at mine now, and thinking that it could be moved up vertically but even that just seems that it would be really difficult to accomplish. Do you have a flat belt or v belt? mines a v-belt. Theres not much room for belt clearance between the back gears shaft if the v-belt went up vertically.


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## Raydel (Nov 28, 2013)

Xalky:
It's flat belt.
I really haven't looked the lathe over because when we brought it down and put it in place,
the thought of repositioning the drive system didn't occur to me then. I'll go have a look and
see if any light bulbs come on.


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## Pacer (Nov 28, 2013)

SB had underdrive setups on the heavy 10s and larger, if you should happen to have a bed that had been cast with the opening under the spindle pullys then possibly you could relocate. Would probably be a pill to do tho...


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