# My PM935-TS Thread



## Smudgemo (Mar 4, 2014)

There hasn't been a lot of other users sharing information about this machine, so I thought I'd share my experience so far with it and Quality Machine/Precision Matthews.  It took about a month to receive.  In stock, time needed to install the DRO, Road Runner Freight over a week in Transit to CA.  Not bad.  Tracking by RRF was lacking, but I supposed those companies aren't FedEx.

I wish I had a photo of it prior to uncrating, but the guy bringing it down on the liftgate was scaring the crap out of me.  The pallet wasn't clearing the floor of the truck, and he was jogging it to get it past the floor while not having it tip over.  If it had, my machine, driveway and house would have sustained damage.

But, it landed nicely and in fine shape.  I had to take the crate apart to inspect it and get it in the garage on the driver's pallet jack (remember to tip your delivery guy and tell him you will before you ask him to go above and beyond) but we got it inside and safe.  From there I had to chop the pallet so my neighbor and I could get it on the floor using my HF 2-T engine hoist.  Note: my floor is very smooth, but the cast iron casters do not roll easily or spin well at all when loaded.  No surprise, I supposed, but I can't complain for the price.  The crate was made of high-quality materials.






Checking the work envelope, a 5 gallon pail fit easily.  For a size comparison, the now disbanded trio of the PM, my Benchmaster and my Grizzly G0704 now living up in Sacramento.





A 4" Glacern vise fits this table very nicely.  I do need a speed handle, though.




The motor is 3hp 3phase.  There was an option for a single phase motor, but that was half the cost of a VFD.  Having very recently installed a VFD on the Benchmaster after learning about them via Tubalcain on Youtube (and really enjoying how it turned out), the step-pulley/VFD seemed like a no-brainer (not to mention $1k cheaper, much more simple than variable speed and in stock.)  Programming the VFD takes some learning, but rewiring the motor was simple enough.  I bought switches and a box from Wolf Automation and made a bracket out of a bit of brazed and painted bed frame and scrap.  Currently it's got a start button, reverse/jog button, speed pot and e-stop.  The VFD is temporarily mounted on the wall, but I intend to box it up at some point.  Wiring is via 18g seven-conductor solid strand sprinkler wire (made in USA, actually) that I picked up at Home Despot.  I needed eight wires, so I ran one extra wire next to the seven and wrapped them up in tape and loom.





I'm not thrilled with my switch arrangement and programming as is, but it's easy enough to change how it's set up at some future date.  For now, it's smooth and powerful.  I've drilled half a dozen holes in some scrap steel, and it's so much more robust than the Grizzly (I know, obvious.)  I can't fit a Bridgeport with my low ceiling (I still curse the builder who's surely been dead for decades) so this was the biggest alternative I could find.  I considered the Grizzly 8x30 Rockwell (?) clone they sell, but lack of adjustment for the Y axis killed my interest.  Plus the overall height was taller than this one when packed for shipping and I was worried about getting it inside.  

As mentioned, the crate was very well made of quality materials.  So much so that I salvaged what I could and made myself a new 3'x5' bench of which 80% or so was shipping materials with the rest of the 2x4s coming from my old bench.  The rest was staples, nails and firewood (which I found this evening burned extremely well.)




My experience with Quality Machine was very positive.  Matt answered all of my questions and gave me a bunch of parameters he suggests for the VFD (which I wanted to install/program myself.)  Road Runner Freight delivered with no damage that I can find and I got a new bench out of it.  My only gripe is the DRO isn't here because I'm told the last batch had issues and were returned.  But better than sending defective stuff, and I can certainly read dials well enough to get some things going.  I'd like to build a boring head as a first or second project.

Hey Ray, what's the run-in procedure for this rig?  The manual has four pages of "Don't operate while blind, stinking drunk", "Don't operate with long hair or jewelry", etc. but no mention of a run-in procedure.  Any idea?  I emailed Matt earlier, but probably after business hours.  Thanks for any help here.  Edit: Matt says no real break-in needed, just start using it.

-Ryan


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## chuckorlando (Mar 4, 2014)

MMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMM Thats a sexy beast right there man.


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## zmotorsports (Jul 13, 2014)

Thanks for the review/experience.  I don't know how I missed this thread.

Now that you have used it for a while what is  your experience/impression of it?

Mike.


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## Ray C (Jul 13, 2014)

No break-in required really.  That's not a sump type head so just lube the obvious moving/rotating components.  I would recommend a good cleaning with rubbing alcohol followed by a complete lube (way oil) when first getting it.  After that, just use it.  I don't recall if yours was outfitted with a one-shot oil system.  That makes life a little easier.

They are really nice machines and we sell them mainly to machine and prototype shops.  We sell them and never hear a word from the customers afterward -which is always a good thing.  Outside of the hobby group (I actively promote outside of this forum) this is my #1 requested/sold piece of equipment.  We also sell a lot of the 1340GT lathes at the small end and various huge lathes/mills at the high end.

Long story short, this is a pro-line piece of equipment.

Ray


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## Smudgemo (Jul 25, 2014)

zmotorsports said:


> Thanks for the review/experience.  I don't know how I missed this thread.
> 
> Now that you have used it for a while what is  your experience/impression of it?
> 
> Mike.



Mike,

I'll see if I can get something interesting together for you this weekend.  I can tell you that it's all positive compared to the Grizzly I had and the BPs I've used.  

Not sure what I'll tackle the next few days, but I've got a spouse asking for kitchen window replacement or repair ($$$$$ vs. my labor plus $20), and some people coming forward asking for bicycles.  Maybe I'll be moving into one of you guys doing some work on the side, too.

Here's the completed PM bench for starters:



-Ryan


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## zmotorsports (Jul 26, 2014)

That would be awesome Ryan.  I would love to see some chips coming off of that thing.  It is getting me even more excited to get mine up and running.

Unfortunately, I had some minor surgery this morning and have nothing better to do than sit here and read forums and watch youtube videos for the next couple of days.  I haven't had this kind of "down time" in quite a while.  I busted butt getting the shop cleared out of customer work to gear up for today because the wife won't let me even step foot in the shop due to the drugs.

Nice looking workbench also Ryan.

Mike.


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## Smudgemo (Jul 28, 2014)

Nothing too thrilling for you, Mike.  I was rehabbing wood windows and building bikes for most of the weekend, but I used the 935 for some RC aircraft building for my dad.  He asked me to mostly complete a landing carriage for him, so I did.  Handy skills for that sort of thing.

Current setup:



I'm not crazy about the yellow, but the controls seem to work well and are in a good location.



Locating the carriage for drilling.



My solution to getting each side high enough to drill for the axles.



Ready for wheel collars and to mount to the fuselage.  Darn good thing I've got a 3/4 ton mill to get this heavy work done.




I also used the last bit of the shipping container from the 935 to close off a window I'm refurbishing.  Lots of work, but not much money to fix up old windows.  Especially compared to what replacements cost.  Wow.  Something to be said for deferred maintenance, though.  The glaze is easier to remove.




Stripped and ready for some repair work.  And I only broke one pane of glass to get here.



I sure like weekends.

-Ryan


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## JimDawson (Jul 28, 2014)

Smudgemo said:


> My solution to getting each side high enough to drill for the axles.
> View attachment 81042
> 
> 
> -Ryan



I think that is the most interesting setup I have ever seen.  That is some real ingenuity there.  And most importantly, it worked.


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## Smudgemo (Jul 28, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> I think that is the most interesting setup I have ever seen.  That is some real ingenuity there.  And most importantly, it worked.



Admittedly, the BenchMaster horizontal would have made for a much more simple operation, but the Y travel stopped working properly, so I think there is some chip removal needed.  In retrospect, the setup/take-down for the vertical might have not taken much less time than fixing the BM, but it worked.


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## jbolt (Jul 28, 2014)

Smudgemo said:


> I was rehabbing wood windows
> 
> 
> Lots of work, but not much money to fix up old windows.  Especially compared to what replacements cost.  Wow.  Something to be said for deferred maintenance, though.  The glaze is easier to remove.
> ...




Ryan,

That brings back memories. I repaired a lot of those over the years back in my remodeling days. Repaired more old double-hungs than I care to think about. It's amazing how much abuse the old growth wood windows will take compared to modern wood windows.

Oh and nice machine too!

Jay


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## zmotorsports (Jul 28, 2014)

Looks like some fun and interesting work you did over the weekend Ryan.  I wonder if you shouldn't have purchased the 9x49 or 10x54 mill for that heavy duty work there.:thumbsup:

Thanks for sharing the pictures with us.

Mike.


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## magnumpe (Aug 4, 2014)

Hi Ryan,

On the verge of taking delivery of a 935 T-S with 3-phase & VFD setup. What has your experience been as far as to the necessity for belt changes with the VFD? Are you able to leave the machine in the high-speed belt combination and get usable speeds throughout the range with just the VFD? Or do you lose torque at very low frequencies/speeds and have to change belts or use backgear? Also my understanding is that you can get up to 5,000 RPM with this setup. Have you cranked the machine up that high?

Or should I bite the bullet and go with the 935 T-V (single phase only). Any feedback you could provide would be very helpful. Thanks!

- Glenn


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## Smudgemo (Aug 4, 2014)

magnumpe said:


> Hi Ryan,
> 
> On the verge of taking delivery of a 935 T-S with 3-phase & VFD setup. What has your experience been as far as to the necessity for belt changes with the VFD? Are you able to leave the machine in the high-speed belt combination and get usable speeds throughout the range with just the VFD? Or do you lose torque at very low frequencies/speeds and have to change belts or use backgear? Also my understanding is that you can get up to 5,000 RPM with this setup. Have you cranked the machine up that high?
> 
> ...



Hi Glenn,

I'm quite content with my setup as I ordered it.  I can indeed adjust the speed infinitely, but I normally utilize the belt changes and the low range just fine-tuning speeds w/ the VFD.   I have not experimented much with relying on the VFD like you are asking because I don't feel that belt changes are much of an issue.  I know some guys hate belt changing, but for the extra cost of variable speed and single phase, no thanks.  I also prefer the simplicity of the belt machine in case anything ever needs repair (and maybe simplicity means it's less likely to break?)

I also haven't tried the speed at max, but with the VFD you can crank up the Hz beyond 60 for extra speed (you'd need to check w/ Matt or Ray on whether that's okay for the motor and bearings, though.)  Matt provided these parameters for the VFD (I added some other parameters of course, but these get you up and running):

*F001   60.00*
*F002   2.00*
*A001   01*
*A002   01*
*B037   01*
*B031  10*
*B091  01

*Bottom line is that I'd buy this machine again and I'd order it the same way.

-Ryan


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## magnumpe (Aug 4, 2014)

Hey Ryan,

You make many good points. Based on your feedback I went with the PM935T-S with 3-Phase/VFD.  Guess I'll just have to learn to change belts when necessary.
Machine should be here next week sometime at which point I'm sure I'll have more questions 

Thanks very much for the info. 

- Glenn





Smudgemo said:


> Hi Glenn,
> 
> I'm quite content with my setup as I ordered it.  I can indeed adjust the speed infinitely, but I normally utilize the belt changes and the low range just fine-tuning speeds w/ the VFD.   I have not experimented much with relying on the VFD like you are asking because I don't feel that belt changes are much of an issue.  I know some guys hate belt changing, but for the extra cost of variable speed and single phase, no thanks.  I also prefer the simplicity of the belt machine in case anything ever needs repair (and maybe simplicity means it's less likely to break?)
> 
> ...


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## Smudgemo (Aug 4, 2014)

No trouble!  I guess it helped me make my decision that the belt model was in stock for immediate shipment and the variable speed wasn't, but I'm very happy with it.  Belt changes really aren't hard, and my work isn't production, so...

-Ryan


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## zmotorsports (Aug 4, 2014)

Smudgemo said:


> No trouble!  I guess it helped me make my decision that the belt model was in stock for immediate shipment and the variable speed wasn't, but I'm very happy with it.  Belt changes really aren't hard, and my work isn't production, so...
> 
> -Ryan



Yeah, it depends on your use and if time is or is not as important, not that it takes a lot of time to change belt positions.  We have a step pulley style at work and it isn't that bad to change belt positions.  That said, most of my work is one-off or prototype work  and I am all over the map as far as spindle RPM.  I chose to go with the Verispeed style setup for convenience.  I used one once at a guys shop and fell in love with it.

Granted it is a few dollars more and neither one was in stock when I ordered mine so my thinking was to get the one I really wanted as this is going to be my last mill purchase.

Mike.


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## Smudgemo (Aug 27, 2014)

For Mike.  Approximately 3/8" and .200" depth of cut on 12L14 with a 3/4" roughing end mill (just figured I'd use it since I was removing nearly .5" of depth for this part.)

[video=youtube;_CRmElEtd6M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CRmElEtd6M&feature=youtu.be[/video]

-Ryan


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## drs23 (Aug 28, 2014)

Man...I guess I hawg too fast. Looks like I need a refresher course on patience!


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## Smudgemo (Aug 28, 2014)

I was just thinking about how slow it was going, but chips weren't blue, the machine is doing the work, and it gives me time to tend to other things.  Plus I'm cheap and hate buying new cutters so I'm usually pretty cautious with them.


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## zmotorsports (Aug 28, 2014)

That was great Ryan.  Thanks for throwing that up for me.  

Mike.


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## Falcon67 (Aug 28, 2014)

That is a very nice machine.  Had no idea they carried something like that.  Only issue I see is X table movement - for me, I'd like to use a mill to do valve guides/seats/etc and 24" doesn't seem like enough travel.  A 351C head is about 20" long.


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## zmotorsports (Aug 28, 2014)

Falcon67 said:


> That is a very nice machine.  Had no idea they carried something like that.  Only issue I see is X table movement - for me, I'd like to use a mill to do valve guides/seats/etc and 24" doesn't seem like enough travel.  A 351C head is about 20" long.



Chris, just out of curiosity how much X travel does your G0704 have?  Are you able to do head valve jobs with it?

The big draw for me on this mill was the fact that it was a knee mill vs. benchtop and also due to its' Taiwan origin.  When I was looking at upgrading, most of the benchtop mills I looked at only had approx. 8" of Y-axis travel and around 20" of X-axis travel.  This mill has 12" of Y and 24" of X travel.

I thought about V-8 heads as well however, most of what I machine anymore is a motorcycle engine case at the large end of the spectrum.  I came to the conclusion that anything much larger I would have to do half and then reposition to do the other half.  It should work fine if care is taken to get it positioned accurately.

Mike.


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## nickmckinney (Aug 28, 2014)

Falcon67 said:


> That is a very nice machine.  Had no idea they carried something like that.  Only issue I see is X table movement - for me, I'd like to use a mill to do valve guides/seats/etc and 24" doesn't seem like enough travel.  A 351C head is about 20" long.




I would get a minimum 9x49 to do seats with a belt pulley head and a VFD as you will want to go below 50RPM to lower the chatter cutting seats. Then you can also get a 10" HQT face mill and surface heads to a single digit RA finish. You will have to spend a chunk on a good fixture though and it takes a ton more time than an air float seat and guide as each valve pilot has to be perfectly centered to the spindle to work.


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## Falcon67 (Aug 29, 2014)

>Chris, just out of curiosity how much X travel does your G0704 have?  Are you able to do head valve jobs with it?

It's about 32" which is not enough.  Also, I don't think the G0519 has the accuracy or table rigidity to do any serious head work.  I could maybe cut/tap for studs on an inline head but for a poly angle head like a 351C, I think I really need a head that nods.  I might get around that with a fixture - thinking about it.  



> I would get a minimum 9x49 to do seats with a belt pulley head and a VFD  as you will want to go below 50RPM to lower the chatter cutting seats.  Then you can also get a 10" HQT face mill and surface heads to a single  digit RA finish. You will have to spend a chunk on a good fixture though  and it takes a ton more time than an air float seat and guide as each  valve pilot has to be perfectly centered to the spindle to work.



Exactly.  Done a bunch of research on it and looked at Bill Jones pages, along with PM and SpeedTalk.  CPM sells a killer fixture for close to $2K.  Precision Measure sells one more affordable - $700.  I have an open option to buy an older Tobin cylinder head bench, but for the money asked I could have a 9x49 mill with more versatility.  Small shop usually has more time than $, so doing a few heads on the side here and there would work out.  Not a production setup by any means.  That 30% coupon used on the 12x36 could have brought a 9x49 variable speed 3 Phase Turn Pro in here for just under $5K.  OR - go chase a decent BP in the $3K range and clean it up.  Cost effective?  LOL.  But I'd like to be as independent as possible.  Her - "What can you do with it?"  "Not sure what I'll get to do, but there's a billion things I can't do if I don't have one".


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## Muskt (Aug 29, 2014)

I had a G0519 for a few years.  I agree that it's accuracy probably is inadequate for that type of work.  I was able to get the gibs adjusted so that the table was pretty good; however, I could never get the quill slop removed.

Jerry in Anchorage


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## zmotorsports (Aug 29, 2014)

Falcon67 said:


> >Chris, just out of curiosity how much X travel does your G0704 have?  Are you able to do head valve jobs with it?
> 
> It's about 32" which is not enough.  Also, I don't think the G0519 has the accuracy or table rigidity to do any serious head work.  I could maybe cut/tap for studs on an inline head but for a poly angle head like a 351C, I think I really need a head that nods.  I might get around that with a fixture - thinking about it.



Chris, does your benchtop mill really have 32" of travel?  I thought the table was 32" with something like 8" Y-travel and 22~ish for X-travel.  Or am I thinking of a different machine?

I too contemplated a 9x49 mill and I could have probably stuffed it in my 34'x34' shop but something would have to give and I wasn't prepared to give up any more floor space for tools/equipment.  I hope I don't end up regretting not getting something larger one day but for the most part I was looking for something similar to the Jet JVM836 size wise so the PM935 should be perfect for the motorcycle work that I do and the small amount of automotive lately.

Oh, I just got word that my mill landed in Salt Lake this morning and I was trying to arrange for an afternoon delivery today but they didn't have any lift gate trucks available until Tuesday.  Seems to be a four more day wait.

Mike.


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## Smudgemo (Aug 29, 2014)

Call them again and beg. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zmotorsports (Aug 29, 2014)

Smudgemo said:


> Call them again and beg.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




No such luck.  I begged and pleaded but they had no lift gate trucks available.  I thought about having it delivered to my place of work where I have a dock but I really didn't have any way of unloading it from my trailer into my shop after getting it home and to be honest, really didn't want the hassle of dealing with it at work. 

I just agreed to have them deliver it Tuesday afternoon.  I guess I have waited 5 months what is another 4 days.

Mike.


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## tmarks11 (Aug 29, 2014)

zmotorsports said:


> Chris, just out of curiosity how much X travel does your G0704 have? Are you able to do head valve jobs with it?





Falcon67 said:


> It's about 32" which is not enough.


G0704 mill has a 7-1/16" x 26-5/8" table, with 6-7/8" (Y) and 18-7/8" (X) travel.

The 935TS is a monster compared to the G0704.

Whether or not the 24" X-travel that the 935TS gives you is enough for a valve job of course depends on your engine, but probably is sufficient for most.


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## Sparkymacker (Aug 29, 2014)

I had a guy I know with a Hiab drop mine off in the back yard. Only problem was he could only get it over my fence, but I was determined to get it in the door. This is after a finally dragged it in....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u16ApXHqJc&list=UUQvC9Dyy9M_E6qr3pzCsNZg




zmotorsports said:


> No such luck.  I begged and pleaded but they had no lift gate trucks available.  I thought about having it delivered to my place of work where I have a dock but I really didn't have any way of unloading it from my trailer into my shop after getting it home and to be honest, really didn't want the hassle of dealing with it at work.
> 
> I just agreed to have them deliver it Tuesday afternoon.  I guess I have waited 5 months what is another 4 days.
> 
> Mike.


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## Falcon67 (Aug 30, 2014)

tmarks11 said:


> G0704 mill has a 7-1/16" x 26-5/8" table, with 6-7/8" (Y) and 18-7/8" (X) travel.
> 
> The 935TS is a monster compared to the G0704.
> 
> Whether or not the 24" X-travel that the 935TS gives you is enough for a valve job of course depends on your engine, but probably is sufficient for most.



Typo error - mine has about 22" x travel.


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## tmarks11 (Aug 31, 2014)

Falcon67 said:


> Typo error - mine has about 22" x travel.


Ahh, makes more sense... Wasnt sure how to get 32" of travel out of a 27" table.

22" of travel is pretty impressive on a mill that small.


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## Falcon67 (Sep 1, 2014)

Table is 32 1/4 x 9 1/2 - real nice size for a mill/drill. 20" spindle to table. Best specs I could find for the money.


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## Cletus (Jun 12, 2021)

Perfect!   .....thank you for posting this!
Just the stuff I need to see as I await my own PM-935TS


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