# Atlas vs the others



## macher

i have started looking for a small bench lathe for my garage shop.  I am looking for a 10 or 12 inch machine.  The comments I see on some web sites don't hold the Atlas in very high esteem.  Based on what I see an Atlas is not much good for anything.  Is this a "MAC vs. PC" type of argument or is there some basis to what I have read.  We had South Bend, Logan and Sheldon in our college shop.  The South Bend and Logan worked good, but we always seemed to have problems with the Sheldon.

I will primarily be making parts for my antique woodworking tools, wood and metal screws, and some other small parts for basket handles.


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## GaryK

macher said:


> I will primarily be making parts for my antique woodworking tools, wood and metal screws, and some other small parts for basket handles.



I had an Atlas for 25 years and it's fine for making small part like you are talking about. I have used it for metal as well as wood. I have threaded a lot of rifle barrels as well as
made some steam engines.

It is true that the Atlas is at the bottom end of the 10"-12" market, but it was meant as a economical lathe sold by Sears and not for a production environment.  

That's my 2 cents anyway.


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## Bill Gruby

I have seen and heard all the arguments on Atlas. Most are biased to say the least. Yes they have their limitations, the biggest of which is the operator himself and what he believes the lathe can do. Don't sell it short, go for it, the Atlas will serve you well for what you wirh to do.

 "Billy G" )


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## eweissman

the most serious criticisms i have heard about some atlas lathes seem to regard the back gears / some other gears in the gear train being made of zamak (sp?) and breaking easily.  there are also later atlas branded lathes which i believe were made by clausing and seem to be of a higher caliber.  i think they also possibly didnt have the highest quality spindle bearings, and the ways are often plain ways vs the prismatic ways you see on some higher end lathes.  still probably better than most any of the chinese stuff you'll find new, and probably cheaper for a 10 or 12 in swing model.  i second the line about the operator being the most important component.  one big point in the favor of the atlas lathes is that there seem to be a lot of cheap parts out there for them.  i have a southbend 9 and it seems like parts are very expensive for them.  hope that helps.


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## Dranreb

Have to agree with what has been said so far, if you go for a 10" the QCGB is essential, as the lead screw reversing box on the change geared models can be problematic.

The 10" ones are cheap enough to buy in good condition, light enough to move easily, but I have found they need to be very rigidly mounted for best results (I am waiting for my new concrete base to cure as I write) and they look so nice!

As to the Zamak, look up the properties compared to cast iron, it isn't as puny as some would have us believe, chip damage can bad sometimes though. 

Bernard


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## pdentrem

I remember seeing these lathes in many a service shop back in the 60s and 70s. As most do not need a 1440 lathe, these smaller but very useful lathes were everywhere, that is why complete lathes and parts are so common today on the used market. Same with Southbend, they are both more common then most, though SBs are more expensive!

I used my Atlas for everything that I needed to do. I only broke the two gears inside the traversing case, but I think that they were damaged earlier as the replacements lasted the next 15 plus years.  Most issues with broken parts etc are related to the operator.
Pierre


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## jgedde

I figure I'd chime in as an opposing view - as a former Atlas owner.  It's long since sold and I've never missed it - not even once.  

If you're used to South Bends and Logans you'll likely be unhappy with the Atlas.  It's a very light duty machine with a lot of weaknesses.   Mainly rigidity.  Parting off can be problematic with the Atlas.  Also, the change gears and half nut lever trunions are Zamak.  They break easily.  Yes Zamak has many properties similar to cast iron, including its poor performance with regard to operating in tension.

Also, the lack of zero set dials and the VERY small dial markings are a an issue too.  There are retrofit kits to get around this however.

Stick with somehting that has more beef and V-ways and you'll be better off in the long run.  Mind you, the Atlas does have capability, especially if you're a seasoned machinist, but you'd do better spending a few extra bucks (if possible) to get a SB (especially the "heavy" models), Logan, Clausing, etc.

BTW, don't even consider an Atlas w/o a quick change gearbox.  I never single point threaded for many years knowing I'd have to fight with the gears...

John


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## AR1911

+1 on jgedde's comments.
I've had several 10" Atlas lathes, don't have any of them now. I do have a Southbend 9" and a Enco 10", both are keepers.
Logan, South Bend would be my first choice in older US-made. 
The Encos and Jet's made in the 1980s are plentiful and were taiwan-sourced, not China. Apparently capitalism makes a difference.

The smaller Atlas 618 is a different matter. In that scale, the drawbacks - zamak and flat ways - are less of an issue.


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## tripletap3

Dranreb said:


> As to the Zamak, look up the properties compared to cast iron, it isn't as puny as some would have us believe, chip damage can bad sometimes though. Bernard


\ 

I agree. I have had several Atlas lathes and the only problem with Zamak was caused by people. Lack of lube, crashing, and even I damaged one by dropping it.


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## AR1911

Sure, but try to find an Atlas without a cracked rack gear casting.  
Or one of the early ones with the reversing box on the leadscrew, made entirely of zamak. Whole assemblies are precious, parts are scarce.
And I've thrown away Zamak gears that were worn to sharp points. Doesn't happen with iron gears.
Zamak has a purpose, and that is fast, low-cost production.


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## tripletap3

I agree with that too. The Atlas lathes were designed in a way that made it affordable to the average Joe who otherwise would have never been able to own a "personal" machine tool. I imagine that even the price of one in 1950 was a far stretch for the average guy and you would have to think long and hard before spending that amount of money for a hobby tool. Still if the machine has been cared for it will last it's new owner a very long time.  Everything wears out eventually.  I’m not real happy about having to buy a new Asian lathe but one of the reasons I decided to buy a new lathe was I have been down the road of old machinery twice. I was given my first Atlas 6" and spent a ton "fixing it up" more than I would have if I had just paid a premium for a decent one. It was nice when it was done but I wanted more so I bought a better 10" and made that mistake again when I had to buy the missing accessories.  Opinion ALERT:::: There are Atlas / South Bend machines out there that are in very good ready to use condition with all the tooling and accessories but they are VERY few and far between and generally require money or luck,  patience and a drive. I know some guys here have very nice older machines but I don't think that is easy to find anymore.


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## pdentrem

Yeap, Microsoft vs Mac, Ford vs Gm)


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## Alan Douglas

I owned a small Atlas for a day; I thought it would be a step up from my Unimat but I was wrong.  The main thing I remember was the planetary gearbox made of pot metal; it had a lot of play in the gears and rattled like a Tin Lizzie.

My 11" Logan needed some work but I've been much happier with that.


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## wa5cab

I think that you're right, Pierre.  I have an Atlas 3996 with all of the accessories except three or four.  I bought it new and wouldn't trade it for anything that you could find today, new or used.  I've never broken anything on it and don't ever expect to.

On the Atlas versus Clausing comment, Clausing didn't make Atlas lathes.  Atlas bought Clausing circa 1950 and continued both product lines.  The company name was later changed to Clausing (rights to which Atlas still owned) because of some other areas that Clausing had a name in, not small lathes.  My 1980 3996 nameplate still says Atlas, with Clausing in small print.

Zamak is not pot metal.  Although I do agree that Atlas made a few parts of Zamak that they shouldn't have.  Not the gears though.  

I never before heard the one about poor quality bearings.  The early Atlas machines used line bored split babit bearings, which was common practice at the time on most low speed machinery or all sizes from small lathes to huge generators.  When they began to offer tapered roller bearing spindles circa 1938, the only brand ever used was Timken.  

Robert D


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## AR1911

That 3996 was the best of the breed, with 1/2" ways instead of 3/8".  Those go for premium prices, and I would not turn one down.

On bearings, Atlas did use Timken, but they used standard bearings, equivalent to automotive grade, where Logan and others used precision grades - class 3 IIRC - at a much higher cost.


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## atwatterkent

My dad who has been a machinist for over 60 years has an Atlas MK6 lathe, which still looks like brand new, for the last 30 comes over to use my 10" SB for threading and tapering and fine finish work.


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## Newmetalmark

I have an old Atlas TH42 without the QC and it can be tedious to change the gears for threading. But as a hobbyist machine, it does everything I ask of it, and I think it's a great machine to learn on. Yeah yeah, flat ways, not real stiff,  small dials, can't cut A2 fast, can't hold .0005 etc, etc, quitcher cryin' they are good machines. Affordable and user friendly.
And dont mistake zamak for pot metal. It's Zinc Aluminum MAgneseum and Kupfer (German for copper) They cast the parts by injecting it into dies at high pressure producing finished parts , that's how they made so many lathes at low prices.
"Pot metal" usually has just about anything with a realtively low melting point-including lead- in it and its just cast and trimmed, like lamps, old toys etc.

But really, I've learned a lot on my Atlas and now I'm ready to move to a bigger and heavier lathe with confidence. And that's why I'm using my Atlas to restore a Clausing 12" I bought.  ;-)


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## Alan Douglas

"Pot metal," as I've always seen the term used, could be many alloys, but was not "anything they threw into the pot."  Some of the 1920s alloys were found to have poor long-term stability, from corrosion in the grain boundaries.  I've seen my share of piano action parts and radio parts that have swelled and cracked, many within a few years of being made.  I have no doubt that Zamak was one of the improved alloys, but I don't think it should be used as a generic term for all casting alloys, unless it really was universally used.  That I don't know.


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## jgedde

Zamak is an alloy of zinc and aluminum with a teensy weensy bit of magnesium and sometimes copper.  It is basically a high grade "pot metal" using ultra-pure zinc to prevent "pest", casting inclusions and voids.  Problem is, while it has good wear characteristics, it isn't very strong in tension and becomes brittle with time due to a reaction with hydrogen (the exact chemistry eludes me at the moment).

Zamak is still an active product and is available in several "flavors."

John


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## Tony Wells

We're sort of derailing this thread into the metallurgy of Zamak, but it's part of the basis for the argument against Atlas, so it is in a way pertinent. This is an enlightening read on Zamak:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamak


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## wa5cab

Back to the subject of Timken bearings, I disagree that South Bend used good ones and Atlas used cheap ones.  In the first place, Chinese production aside, bearing grades tended to be produced like resistor tolerances were.  First you made 10,000 of one type or value.  Then you tested (graded) until you got as many as you needed of the highest tolerance or grade.  Next you lowered the criteria and continued testing or grading for the second level.  Etc.  

In the second place, Atlas (and Sears) advertising in the late 30's and 40's claimed that the Timken bearings used were "specially selected" or similar terms.  Differing only in the specific adectives used from ads from South Bend and others.  You can't claim (or at least you can't prove) that Atlas lied and South Bend didn't.  The bearings in the Atlas machines have a date engraved on them.  Those that you buy at the auto parts store (besides more than likely not being Timken to begin with) usually don't, although may years ago, I had a fair number of ex-auto parts store Timken bearings that did.  The date is undoubtedly the inspection date and not the date the lathe was assembled as it isn't unusual to find (there have been enough examples reported here and on other lists) dates on the two bearings in a single machine differing by up to a year.  In the derogatory way in which the term is typically used today, Atlas lathes weren't "cheap".  They were "relatively inexpensive".

Robert D.


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## macher

First, thanks for all the feedback.  Yesterday I bought a Craftsman 07042.  I has the Timken bearings, one three jaw chuck by Union Mfg, a steady rest (probably for a 10" South Bend, bolted to a riser so it could be used with this lathe),  a forward-reverse switch and some other tooling.  The gears look like they are hardly used and some of the change gears look new.  it will probably take me of couple of weeks to get it going.  The Blue paint is in very good condition.  Hard to believe something made the year I was born looks so good.  Its been stored in a garage under a tarp for I don't know how many years so it is quite dirty.  The ways and lead screw are covered with heavy grease.  There are some minor parts missing and the small crank on the apron has one end broken off.  I want to take each element apart and make certain everything is in order and then lube it before I start it up.

Some questions:  
Where can I get a parts list and user manual for this Lathe?  
How can one determine if an electric motor is reversible?  
Where is the serial number located.  
I am looking for a copy of "How To Run a Lathe" and I understand Atlas has published a similar book that is very good, is the Atlas book worth buying?

The person I bought the lathe from also had another lathe with several parts missing from the cross slide.  There is no name on the machine that I could find.  It has double flat Vs on the bed.  He was going to give it to me free for purchasing the Craftsman, but not knowing the maker I wasn't certain I could get parts for it.  The only distinguishing feature was the change gear information on a small, embossed, brass plate on the headstock.  It looks like it was made to be driven by flat belts about 2 inches wide.  The lathe is located in Auburn, CA.

The last time I used an engine lathe was in college in 1963 so its going to take some getting used to.  Once I get the lathe running my first project will be making wooden screws and nuts to restore three antique wooden plow planes.

Dave Nelson


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## macher

jgedde said:


> Zamak is an alloy of zinc and aluminum with a teensy weensy bit of magnesium and sometimes copper.  It is basically a high grade "pot metal" using ultra-pure zinc to prevent "pest", casting inclusions and voids.  Problem is, while it has good wear characteristics, it isn't very strong in tension and becomes brittle with time due to a reaction with hydrogen (the exact chemistry eludes me at the moment).
> 
> Zamak is still an active product and is available in several "flavors."
> 
> John



Interesting comment.  In the early 1960's I worked for Dr. Nathan Tiner at Astropower Labs, a subsidiary of Douglas Aircraft.  As I recall, Tiner discovered that the hydrogen atoms would migrate to sharp intersections in manufactured parts, such as the roots of gear teeth.  We were always concerned about hydrogen embrittlement in the parts of airplanes, specifically Cadium plated items.

Dave Nelson


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## wa5cab

Dave,

You can still get some parts from Clausing.  800-323-0972.  Ask for Old Atlas Parts.  Beyond that, eBay is probably the next best source, followed by lists like this one.

For a users manual and parts list, for the time being look for one on the 101.07403.  The only one around that I know of also covers the 101.027430 and 101.027440 which are 24" and 36" between centers versions of 101.07403 with Quick Change Gear Box added.  I think I uploaded a PDF of it into the Downloads section a week or so ago.  If I didn't, I'll put it there tonight.  I am currently working on correcting a parts list specifically for the 101.07402 (and several other models) and will make it available when done.

Another manual that you should also get is "Manual of Lathe Operations and Machinist's Tables".  Current or final version still available from Clausing for $35.00.  Earlier versions (the book first came out in I think it was 1937) can often be found on eBay.  You might want to look at an early to mid 40's edition on eBay or elsewhere.  Both versions would prove useful as some of the photos of the actual lathe were updated over the years so for example there are photos of my 3996 in the final version but not so many of yours.  The operating and actual machining instructions and tables as well as the various machining tables are you might say timeless.

Pretty much any electric motor that you might find on an Atlas or Craftsman lathe is reversible.  Whether it is reversible without any modifications to the wiring inside or not is another matter.  Instead of giving a treatise on how to determine whether any motor is currently configured to be reversible, which would take several paragraphs, why don't you post a good photo of the motor, its nameplate and of the opened up junction box on it to the site here.  I would suggest starting a new thread with a pertinent Subject.

The serial number should be on the same nameplate as the model number, found on the back of the bed if someone hasn't removed it.  Some people have also reported finding serial numbers stamped on the bed at either the extreme right front or left front.  However, it's also been obvious in some such cases that the serial numbers weren't Atlas serial numbers.  And a lot of lathes don't have anything stamped there (like mine).

For information on the flat belt machine, I would suggest browsing around the Lathes.UK site looking at photos.  URL is http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/index.html which will take you to the Atlas section.  Navigate up a level or two to look for other brands.  I can say that I never heard of Atlas building either a flat belt or a V-bed lathe.

Robert D.


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## stevecmo

Dave,

The Southbend "How to Run a Lathe" is probably the best manual.  You should join the SB Yahoo group and you will find a copy in the "files" section.  It's also one of the most active lathe lists and even though I don't own a SB, I find the info the valuable.  

I'm sure there is a Yahoo group for the Craftsman lathes as well and I'm sure you will find valuable info in the files, photos and messages there.

Good luck and I hope this helps.

Steve


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## wa5cab

Steve,

What's the actual exact Yahoo Group name?  Yahoo's group search capability is basically terrible (a search for "south bend lathe" turns up at least 11 pages of hits, with "South_Indian_Beauties" on page 1!!!) and so far about 8 South Bend lathe related groups including both southbendlathe and southbendlathes.  Some are clearly subsidiary groups of others, like some of the Atlas/Craftsman groups.  

Dave,

The main Yahoo Atlas/Craftsman group is Atlas_Craftsman.

Robert


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## stevecmo

Robert,

Here is a direct link:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/?yguid=488856139

If that doesn't work, just Google "yahoo groups" and you will see all of them.

Hope that helps.

Steve


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## wa5cab

Steve,

I'm no stranger to Yahoo as I'm on about 25 different Groups there, some dating back more than a decade (my membership, not the Group age).  But the link you posted did confirm I had guessed right as to which one you were actually referring to.  Thanks.

Robert D.


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## Smudgemo

macher said:


> Some questions:
> Where can I get a parts list and user manual for this Lathe?
> I am looking for a copy of "How To Run a Lathe" and I understand Atlas has published a similar book that is very good, is the Atlas book worth buying?
> 
> The person I bought the lathe from also had another lathe with several parts missing from the cross slide.  There is no name on the machine that I could find.  It has double flat Vs on the bed.  He was going to give it to me free for purchasing the Craftsman, but not knowing the maker I wasn't certain I could get parts for it.  The only distinguishing feature was the change gear information on a small, embossed, brass plate on the headstock.  It looks like it was made to be driven by flat belts about 2 inches wide.  The lathe is located in Auburn, CA.
> 
> Dave Nelson



Dave,
I might have soft copies of the manuals noted.  I also know a guy in Auburn that might want that second lathe.  PM me so we can exchange info.
-Ryan


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## iron man

macher said:


> i have started looking for a small bench lathe for my garage shop. I am looking for a 10 or 12 inch machine. The comments I see on some web sites don't hold the Atlas in very high esteem. Based on what I see an Atlas is not much good for anything. Is this a "MAC vs. PC" type of argument or is there some basis to what I have read. We had South Bend, Logan and Sheldon in our college shop. The South Bend and Logan worked good, but we always seemed to have problems with the Sheldon.
> 
> I will primarily be making parts for my antique woodworking tools, wood and metal screws, and some other small parts for basket handles.



I just started on this forum and I do not want to rub anyone wrong but I worked in a Machine shop for 25Yrs all of are machines are manual no CNC. I built my first metal turning lathe but came across an 10 inch Atlas for a song and could not turn it down. There are some design flaws but nothing that any of us could not repair or design better. I just recently rebuilt the cross feed and updated it with bearings, a direct read dial and a cross feed nut that is twice as long as the stock one with wear adjustments. I also installed a 2 1/2 horse variable speed treadmill motor to it and other small modifications. I have used the counterparts of this lathe and found no huge differance, I dont tend to blame a machine because I could not make do what I wanted instead I try and figure out how to make it work better and that is part of the fun of it. 

As for the the Zamack (pot metal) parts if and when they fail you can buy almost exact replacement change gears from Browning and yes you can weld the atlas pot metal with Aladin 3 in 1 rod with a Tig welder I have welded mountains of this stuff and it welds quit well.. I for one see no problem with the Atlas Lathe it may in its day been inexpensive but is far from being a cheap lathe.. Ray


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## Dranreb

iron man said:


> I just started on this forum and I do not want to rub anyone wrong but I worked in a Machine shop for 25Yrs all of are machines are manual no CNC. I built my first metal turning lathe but came across an 10 inch Atlas for a song and could not turn it down. There are some design flaws but nothing that any of us could not repair or design better. I just recently rebuilt the cross feed and updated it with bearings, a direct read dial and a cross feed nut that is twice as long as the stock one with wear adjustments. I also installed a 2 1/2 horse variable speed treadmill motor to it and other small modifications. I have used the counterparts of this lathe and found no huge differance, I dont tend to blame a machine because I could not make do what I wanted instead I try and figure out how to make it work better and that is part of the fun of it.
> 
> As for the the Zamack (pot metal) parts if and when they fail you can buy almost exact replacement change gears from Browning and yes you can weld the atlas pot metal with Aladin 3 in 1 rod with a Tig welder I have welded mountains of this stuff and it welds quit well.. I for one see no problem with the Atlas Lathe it may in its day been inexpensive but is far from being a cheap lathe.. Ray



Hi Ray, I'm sure there will be a lot of interest in your crossfeed modifications, would you like to start a new thread detailing what you have done with pictures? I only ask because I have to make a new nut soon, and any help with this would be great.

Bernard


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## iron man

Dranreb said:


> Hi Ray, I'm sure there will be a lot of interest in your crossfeed modifications, would you like to start a new thread detailing what you have done with pictures? I only ask because I have to make a new nut soon, and any help with this would be great.
> 
> Bernard



I am not sure how many post I have to make before I can post some pictures. I made the acme tap and threaded a brass block twice as long as the stock one I now have zero back lash I have never had that before. I also made the new crossfeed screw the original bearing surface had the gear against the end with no thrust bearing the other end used the dial as a thrust surface which worked ok until you did an internal bore then I could not turn the dial. I made a complete new piece with a bearing at each end and an 1 1/2" dial the dial floats free and is no longer part of the thrust on the crossfeed screw. I kept all the stock parts but will never go back to them the nut on its own made a huge differance in the machine. Ray


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## Dranreb

iron man said:


> I am not sure how many post I have to make before I can post some pictures. I made the acme tap and threaded a brass block twice as long as the stock one I now have zero back lash I have never had that before. I also made the new crossfeed screw the original bearing surface had the gear against the end with no thrust bearing the other end used the dial as a thrust surface which worked ok until you did an internal bore then I could not turn the dial. I made a complete new piece with a bearing at each end and an 1 1/2" dial the dial floats free and is no longer part of the thrust on the crossfeed screw. I kept all the stock parts but will never go back to them the nut on its own made a huge differance in the machine. Ray



Sound just what is needed, I had terrible trouble trying to mill a T nut for my new QC tool post due to slack in the screw/nut, sort of got there in the end but it was a bit scary! Click to enlarge pic, then click again on the + to get closeup.




Keep on posting useful info like that and I'm sure you will soon be able to post pics, ( mods can this be fast tracked? ) thanks for the input.

Bernard


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## wa5cab

The only two restrictions I'm aware of are that the first post has to be made (and be approved) in the New Members area and the 20 post requirement to get access to Downloads.  But I'll check.  In the meantime, Iron Man, go ahead and try to attach a photo.

Robert D.



Dranreb said:


> Keep on posting useful info like that and I'm sure you will soon be able to post pics, ( mods can this be fast tracked? ) thanks for the input.
> 
> Bernard


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## iron man

wa5cab said:


> The only two restrictions I'm aware of are that the first post has to be made (and be approved) in the New Members area and the 20 post requirement to get access to Downloads. But I'll check. In the meantime, Iron Man, go ahead and try to attach a photo.
> 
> Robert D.



I will try and do that tonight the acme tap is quite easy to make in the passed I have fill the old stock nuts with foss copper a High temp silver brazing alloy and have redrilled and retapped but on this I thought that more surface area would give better support and last longer. I am making the part to make up for wear in the future which will attach to the back of the nut but for now the extra length seems to do the trick and is a lot cheaper than buying one off ebay. I also want to make some brass half nut's as well if you do not want to machine the acme thread you can buy it in 3 foot length pretty cheap. I also made the nut with a shouldered bolt so I can just remove it to free the nut because my next project is a taper attachment.  Ray


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## iron man

Hear is the picture of the finished dial I will have to tear it apart to show the details maybe start another post for that. I did not machine the nut at the back of the mount instead I drill a couple holes in the front and use a spanner wrench to tighten it up the nut on the front sets the bearing preload.


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## iron man

And here is the tap I made crude but it works well.


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## iron man

And this is not Atlas but it is the power feed I made for my Grizzly GO727 mill I had an Atlas but I like this one so much I sold it. The motor inside is a tiny gearhead motor out of an ICBM missile that is for controlling the directional fins it has a lot of power and is very slow when you need it.


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## wa5cab

Ray,

I see that you figured out the attachments bit.

Robert D.


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## Dranreb

Clever work you've done there Iron man, looking forward to more detail when you have the time to share it, thanks..:thumbzup:


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## iron man

wa5cab said:


> Ray,
> 
> I see that you figured out the attachments bit.
> 
> Robert D.



 Yes I did thanks Robert I would not have posted without your prompting!!!


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## iron man

Dranreb said:


> Clever work you've done there Iron man, looking forward to more detail when you have the time to share it, thanks..:thumbzup:



 I will try and get it torn down sometime this week end I started another post for that I hope it helps you get yours going.


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## Brandon

Truth hurts...


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## wa5cab

In case anyone is following the recent part of this thread because they need Atlas parts and don't know, I'll mention that Clausing still has considerable support for the Atlas lathes and to a lesser degree, some of the other type machines that Atlas built.  Prices generally reflect current (not 1940's) costs to produce but a pair of half nuts for a 12" last time I checked were under $35.  If you'd rather make a part because you can and don't need the machine back up PDQ in order to make something else (which would generally be my case), have at it.  Just know that you may not have to.

Also (with the exception of the Model 3950 headstock casting), generally ignore derogatory comments about Zamak parts.  For the most part they are just sour grapes.

Robert D


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## Brandon

All I was saying was if he was interested is production, an Atlas might not be the machine for him. Try taking a .200 cut on an Atlas with a V belt drive. The box ways are considered a weak point and are generally regarded as inaccurate. Changing gears is also time consuming. By all means though, delete my comment because I offended someone. BTW, I owned an Atlas and enjoyed using it, but I was always mindfull of it's limitations. When I run bigger work, production, and tight tolerances, I use my Harrison. 

Use the right tool for the job.


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## iron man

Brandon said:


> All I was saying was if he was interested is production, an Atlas might not be the machine for him. Try taking a .200 cut on an Atlas with a V belt drive. The box ways are considered a weak point and are generally regarded as inaccurate. Changing gears is also time consuming. By all means though, delete my comment because I offended someone. BTW, I owned an Atlas and enjoyed using it, but I was always mindfull of it's limitations. When I run bigger work, production, and tight tolerances, I use my Harrison.
> 
> Use the right tool for the job.



I would take issue with the flat ways we had some awful big lathes where I use to work big enough to turn a man hole cover and the ways where flat. It is all about how much surface contact and and inverted V does not give that big of an advantage. I also have used many of the South bend of the same size as the Atlas and I could take no larger cut on them than I could on an Atlas. The gear box on mine looks Identical to a South bend so close I think you could interchange them.. But these lathes where never made for production even though some have found there way being used that way. But for a home machine shop they are only limited by your imagination.. Ray


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## iron man

wa5cab said:


> In case anyone is following the recent part of this thread because they need Atlas parts and don't know, I'll mention that Clausing still has considerable support for the Atlas lathes and to a lesser degree, some of the other type machines that Atlas built. Prices generally reflect current (not 1940's) costs to produce but a pair of half nuts for a 12" last time I checked were under $35. If you'd rather make a part because you can and don't need the machine back up PDQ in order to make something else (which would generally be my case), have at it. Just know that you may not have to.
> 
> Also (with the exception of the Model 3950 headstock casting), generally ignore derogatory comments about Zamak parts. For the most part they are just sour grapes.
> 
> Robert D



That is good info I use to get small catalogs from them but now they dont even have the web site up anymore. Thanks Ray


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## wa5cab

Brandon,

The name of this site is Hobby-Machinist.  With equal emphasis on both words.  Several other roughly similar internet lists use the same word in their names, or use "Home".  For the most part, even 20 years ago none of the machines commonly discussed here would have been usable for production.  Even today most machine shops will still have several manual engine lathes on the floor for prototypes, one-off's and the like.  But if they tried to use them for production, labor costs would be prohibitive.  And the cost of even those machines is beyond the means (or beyond the willingness to pay) of the majority of the people who turn up here.

I've never particularly needed to take a .200 cut but if trying to do so with a V-belt drive would cause problems, trying to do it with a flat belt drive would be if anything worse.  But I consider it a non-issue on this site.

Although very few flat bed lathes are made anymore, it's more because they are generally regarded as inaccurate plus one other issue than because they are inaccurate.  A badly worn V bed is just as bad as a badly worn flat bed.  The only real difference is that a badly worn V-bed doesn't give itself away by being hard to traverse all the way to the tailstock end of the bed.  Unless you have to do work accurate to 0.0001" or less, the only real problem with a properly adjusted flat bed lathe is differential bed wear.  Which can be a problem.  On the other hand, it's cheaper to regrind a flat bed than a V-bed.

I don't understand your time consuming gear change comment.  If time is critical, don't use a Change Gear lathe.  

In any case, it wasn't what you said, it was how you said it.  Had you told the guy that for a production shop, forget anything more than about 30 years old (and therefore most machines anyone on this site owns other than Chinese built), and to go buy a good used NC machining center, there wouldn't have been any reason to take exception.

Robert D.




Brandon said:


> All I was saying was if he was interested is production, an Atlas might not be the machine for him. Try taking a .200 cut on an Atlas with a V belt drive. The box ways are considered a weak point and are generally regarded as inaccurate. Changing gears is also time consuming. By all means though, delete my comment because I offended someone. BTW, I owned an Atlas and enjoyed using it, but I was always mindfull of it's limitations. When I run bigger work, production, and tight tolerances, I use my Harrison.
> 
> Use the right tool for the job.


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## CharlieW

I owned a Logan, 3 Atlas lathes, a Sheldon flatbelt, a Jet and now have an 1880's Prentise Bros treadle lathe and a 1440 GoodWay gearhead.  All good machines and I made hundreds of parts on them.  I was happy with each lathe when I had it, but every now and then each one either wasn't quite large enough or didn't have collets or was too slow for some jobs or something else.  They were good 80% of the time but could be agrivating at times also. Life is full of compromises.  As I have gotten older and with a lifetime of turning, it's nice to have that I really enjoyed using and has fewer limitations and offers many of the features the others didn't have.

Charlie W.


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## Brandon

Robert D.
 I was sharing my experience dealing with Atlas lathes. I gave an honest assessment  You didn't like it, so you deleted what I typed.
 Your comment of "Even today most machine shops will still have several manual engine lathes on the floor for prototypes, one-off's and the like. But if they tried to use them for production, labor costs would be prohibitive" Is not accurate at all. Do you see the lathe in my avatar? That lathe is used every day, as well as a collection of manuals that you don't see. I regularly take .200+ deep cuts with my machine in my shop. That is why I make money. 

I am a machinist and tool and die maker by trade, and by choice. I set up and run CNC machines and every sort of manual machine that you can think of, as well as most brands. I belonged to the IAM for years. I was sharing my experience with a person that was asking for help. I'm sorry if I insulted your favorite machine by pointing out it's well known problems. I figured that you would welcome different viewpoints as well as an experienced professional machinist to your site.


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## Brandon

Just in case you forgot what the original post was Robert...



macher said:


> i have started looking for a small bench lathe for my garage shop.  I am looking for a 10 or 12 inch machine.  The comments I see on some web sites don't hold the Atlas in very high esteem.  Based on what I see an Atlas is not much good for anything.  Is this a "MAC vs. PC" type of argument or is there some basis to what I have read.  We had South Bend, Logan and Sheldon in our college shop.  The South Bend and Logan worked good, but we always seemed to have problems with the Sheldon.
> 
> I will primarily be making parts for my antique woodworking tools, wood and metal screws, and some other small parts for basket handles.




I was only helping out.


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## wa5cab

Brandon,

The short answer to his first question should have been a simple "yes".  Mac vs PC is an excellent description.  Linux vs MS would have been another good one.  Mac and Linux users habitually run down people who use MS.  Just as owners of some lathe brands that I won't list habitually run down Atlas and Atlas users.  The reverse is seldom true.  

I didn't go back and look for his original post and didn't recall what he had said.  Now that you've refreshed my memory, I see that what he originally said he was looking for could have been easily handled by any of the five common vintage US makes and had little enough in common with what you've posted since.  He certainly never said anything about "production" and I'd bet that a .200 cut would probably part off most of what he wanted to be able to make.  As he was logged in as of a few minutes ago, I assume he probably went with one of the other four.  I hope he found something that works for him.  If you were "just trying to help", you apparently narrowed down his range of choices.

Robert D.


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## pebbleworm

I recently upgraded to a Craftsman/Atlas 618 from the Mighty Unimat DB-200 and I am pretty darn happy with it.  Everything I tried to do with the Unimat apart from model work was at the outer limits of it's ability.  I live in a  city apartment, with a Model T size garage that I share with a car, so needed a machine that was small, could sit on an existing bench and was semi-portable.  Believe me, I would rather have a Monarch 10EE, but living in a big city you have to make compromises.  I was just about to buy a Microlux 7X16- on sale, the variable speed brushless motor was a big plus, but I saw a relatively well tooled Craftsman 618 on craigslist- this had the milling attachment as well and was a lightly used hobbyist machine since new.  And was a bit cheaper than the Microlux.  I went for the 618- it is about the biggest lathe I can justify given my space available, I can horse it around by myself and compared to the Unimat it makes chips like a Colchester.  Quality seems on par with the better ChiCom 7X lathes or a bit better, but both machines were built to a price point.  I also have TWO other Atlas lathes back in the midwest that I bought literally a month before I started a new career 15 years ago, so I have spare parts I can lug back on the train (which has pretty much unlimited baggage- try dragging a machine tool with you on an airplane!).  I like the machine- I still may add a variable speed brushless motor to it, but I am having a lot of fun as it is.


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## H&NERy

I have an Atlas TH54 and a 19 inch LeBlond regal. For most of my work I prefer my Atlas. My Atlas was bought new by a live steamer and well taken care of. I am the 2nd owner of it. The only thing I added was a quick change tool holder. Ebay is a great place to buy parts and accessories. I have a lot of the toys that go with it. The lathe is one of the handiest tools you will ever own. I like my Atlas and wouldn't trade it for anything.


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## george wilson

I posted a helpful ,NON DEROGATORY,actual use experience I had with my first lathe,a 12" Sears atlas. It has vanished. I'd like to know why. I stated in the post that it was not meant to be insulting.

If any of my posts are deleted,it would be the polite and professional thing to be informed by PM as to the reason it was deleted. Possibly modifications of the post could be made if needed.

Is it possible that Nelson,working on the forum,caused posts to vanish?

Does any moderator care to reply to this? Thank you.


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## iron man

george wilson said:


> I posted a helpful ,NON DEROGATORY,actual use experience I had with my first lathe,a 12" Sears atlas. It has vanished. I'd like to know why. I stated in the post that it was not meant to be insulting.
> 
> If any of my posts are deleted,it would be the polite and professional thing to be informed by PM as to the reason it was deleted. Possibly modifications of the post could be made if needed.
> 
> Is it possible that Nelson,working on the forum,caused posts to vanish?
> 
> Does any moderator care to reply to this? Thank you.





Hope it was just a mistake George I saw nothing wrong with your post,.. Ray


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## shaskell

macher said:


> i have started looking for a small bench lathe for my garage shop. I am looking for a 10 or 12 inch machine. The comments I see on some web sites don't hold the Atlas in very high esteem. Based on what I see an Atlas is not much good for anything. Is this a "MAC vs. PC" type of argument or is there some basis to what I have read. We had South Bend, Logan and Sheldon in our college shop. The South Bend and Logan worked good, but we always seemed to have problems with the Sheldon.
> 
> I will primarily be making parts for my antique woodworking tools, wood and metal screws, and some other small parts for basket handles.



*Reply:* I have an Atlas 10F54 lathe that I bought used a few years ago. Decent machine. I don't know how many owners it has had before me, but still in decent shape and I can turn out good parts with it. A lot of times it's not the machine but the operator as far a accuracy is concerned. I have installed a quick change gear box on it. Recently I have also installed a new 1 HP VFD rated 3 phase motor and a new VFD on it, great having variable speed capability now and being able to make the spindle crawl when I need to do power tapping. Like the recent job I had making (40) 2" diameter A-36 HRS spacers from 2.5 inches to 5.5" long with a 3/4-10 tapped whole clear through each of them. Purchaser wanted the spacers to use on his machining center he was installing. I purchased a 6" long tap from Enco and got the job done on the lathe - only had to finish hand tapping on the bench on the longest of the spacers, would have been a "bear" if I had to hand tap all forty pieces.  Lots of spare parts available on ebay also for Atlas machines. You might also consider a new Grizzly, but of course those machines are made overseas if that is any concern to you. I have several Grizzly woodworking machines and they are fine and I have had no issues with them.


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## Ulma Doctor

i'll throw my hat into the ring..
i loved my atlas th42. it is a beautiful machine, but has severe limitations.
i quickly learned of vibration issues as well as having to deal with the slow change geartrain.
the gearing is reminiscent of Fisher-Price childrens' toys, and were designed with minimum cost as the prerequisite.
i would suggest the purchase of a V bed for any serious machining, a new mini lathe has near the same capabilities as an atlas 6", and eclipses the craftsman/atlas in other ways with variable speed and ease of parts availability. 
IMO, for a 10 or 12" buy a V bed you'll be much happier with the accuracy. 
IMO, stick with heavy duty, not Fisher-Price.


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## Ray C

George,

The database crashed yesterday and all posts from the last two days were lost.


Ray




george wilson said:


> I posted a helpful ,NON DEROGATORY,actual use experience I had with my first lathe,a 12" Sears atlas. It has vanished. I'd like to know why. I stated in the post that it was not meant to be insulting.
> 
> If any of my posts are deleted,it would be the polite and professional thing to be informed by PM as to the reason it was deleted. Possibly modifications of the post could be made if needed.
> 
> Is it possible that Nelson,working on the forum,caused posts to vanish?
> 
> Does any moderator care to reply to this? Thank you.


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## george wilson

Yes,I heard. Thank you,Ray.


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## wa5cab

This forum is primarily for people who have Atlas machines (not just lathes) to discuss or ask questions about  their machines. It is not a place for people who own some other brand to come in and make derogatory remarks about Atlas machines. If you don't like Atlas machines, there is probably a forum for whatever you do like where you probably won't be bothered by someone with an axe to grind coming in and telling you what a piece of junk your machine is. AFAIK this doesn't happen on other forums but has happened several times here.

Robert D.


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