# Bringing home a new to me G0752Z



## WobblyHand (Oct 16, 2021)

Made a trip out to Indiana to buy @rabler 's Grizzly 10" x 22 lathe.  The G0752Z is the same as a G0602, but it has a VFD, and a DRO.  Randall was great, first insisting that I operate the lathe and do some sample operations.  It was sufficiently different from a mini-lathe that I had to re-learn what to do.  Then it was time for disassembling the lathe to it's lightest configuration. It wasn't necessary in Indiana, but more to help me out in NH when I had to move the lathe without the help of a tractor.  A standard pallet just fits in a Subaru Impreza hatchback trunk.  Loaded and bolted the lathe to the pallet.  As the light was failing, we got the pallet loaded into the hatchback.  This was quite an amazing feat as the clearance on both sides of the vehicle to the pallet was about 1/2".  I was sweating it a bit, since I had borrowed my wife's vehicle for this adventure. Randall graciously let me stay overnight, and I want to thank him for letting sleep there.

Partially due to the time zone shift, and a bit due to excitement, I woke up at 6am and started figuring out how to restrain the pallet from shifting in the vehicle. Was on my back under the vehicle at 6:30am, as the sun rose, looking for the drain holes in the frame for the ratcheting tie downs.  Used all 6 ratcheting tie downs, plus additional strapping to keep the lathe stand from jumping about and moving.  Finally, about 9am, I was on my way back home.  I got home on Thursday.  Friday morning, I was looking at what I brought home.  This was after I had removed nearly all the straps.


Here's a car's eye view after the pallet was nearly removed.  Had to use the board to lift the lathe a little to prevent a hangup.


Used a come along and a hydraulic table.  It worked pretty well, at least until I ran out of mechanic advantage.


I then had to connect the come along to the handle.  Not seen are the blocks I used to brace the handle against the table to reduce handle bending.  Not proud of it, but it worked.  Was kind of scared at this point so, I tied the pallet to the table.  Added more tie downs.  The tricky bit was the heavy end was cantilevered beyond the edge of the table, so I was worried about stability.


Due to me not thinking, I had managed to back out the pallet into my fencepost.  Oops.  Not really a problem.  After adding more tie downs and checking for clearance, I drove the car forward about 4 feet.  Was then able to swing the table away from the fence post hardware.  I then lowered the table and proceeded down the pathway.  With a little cleaning, my wife's car will be ready to be returned.  No damage, which relieves me.  So onto the next step - hmm literally, there are steps to deal with.  First, let's remove the stand and get it out of the way.  Next, I have to remove the screen door and one of the screens.


Found some blocks to put on the steps.  As you can see, there's a gap.



Some time passed as I figured out the next step.  I ended up lag bolting the 2x4's to the deck into the oak cantilever beams.  To pull the pallet off the hydraulic table, I used a come along attached to a 3x3 across the doorway.  As you can see it is dark out, because I had to fabricate a couple of pieces to put a hook onto.  I bent some steel and machined an elongated hole in the ends using a boring head.  Used a 7/16" bolt to pass through the plates.  Was kind of a fun break from hauling stuff, to make something.



Got it 70% onto my roofed porch by 6:30pm.  Fortunately the heavy end was 100% supported.  Around that time a buddy of mine came by and helped me lift the pallet onto a furniture dolly and we got it tucked in 100% under the roof and against the house.  He then helped me bring the stand down to the basement, and helped me put things away.  (I had emptied 1/2 the tool shed getting out the hydraulic table.)  

Not going to lie, I'm a bit sore today.  Going to rest a good part of the day.  If I'm inspired, I'll move some of the lathe parts out of the kitchen.  Figure I've got 1 days grace period on that.  I don't want that stuff there either.

Next step is to plan out the move down into the basement.  I'll use either block and tackle, or a winch of some sort.  Will make some sort of sled for the lathe to ride on.  Not sure if a winch can safely lower things.  If I was to use block and tackle I need 8 pulleys.  I want an 8X advantage, that way the force is only 40 lbs, which I can easily manage myself.  Quad pulleys don't seem to be that common.


----------



## T Bredehoft (Oct 16, 2021)

With 8 pullys you will encounter inner friction enought to prevent movement, either accidentally or on purpose. Try it, but understand the principle, you will have 8 points of resistance bending your rope/cable, etc. you may be able to establish a point where snubbing your rope/cable around a stationary object, (post, pipe, whatever) to allow you to release tension slowly. 

I remember rigging a "bosun's chair" with four pullys as a child, I could not lift myself.


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 16, 2021)

T Bredehoft said:


> With 8 pullys you will encounter inner friction enought to prevent movement, either accidentally or on purpose. Try it, but understand the principle, you will have 8 points of resistance bending your rope/cable, etc. you may be able to establish a point where snubbing your rope/cable around a stationary object, (post, pipe, whatever) to allow you to release tension slowly.
> 
> I remember rigging a "bosun's chair" with four pullys as a child, I could not lift myself.


I'm a bit worried by the friction loss as well.  Thinking of pulleys with bearings, and machining new housings.  The cheap block and tackles I see are not confidence inspiring at all.  I have some 1x4 A36 that I could machine a pair of pulley housings.  Certainly better than the stacked sheet metal block and tackle setups I saw on eBay.  No confidence that the assemblies wouldn't twist or bend slightly.  If I could find some 3" pulleys with bearings for 3/8" rope, that would work with my more rigid housings, I think.

At the bottom of the stairs, I don't have a good tie off point.  Have granite walls there, and the stairs themselves.  Guess I could install a cleat or two on the stairs.  If cleated, I could go with less mechanical advantage.  If I got tired, I could just tie it off to the cleat.  I could do it from the top, but if it is a one man job, I'd like to be able to guide the lathe down.  

Kind of why I posted about the pulleys - wasn't sure how well 8 wheels would work.  Issue is not unsolvable, just haven't found a reasonable way yet.  Lathe is in an ok place right now, so I can take my time working out this part.


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 16, 2021)

As a side note, these pieces are the remnants of the wheels on the hydraulic table.  First somewhat heavy load on the table, and nowhere near the rating of the table.  ~450 lbs vs 1500 lb rating.  At one point, that table was hard to move.  That was the wheel outer layer disintegrating.  This is some of what I picked up off the brick walkway this morning.  The wheels originally had red polyurethane? covering on them.  Not anymore.  Now they are just iron.  They still roll, but not as well.  Cart was stored in a tool shed, out of direct sunlight.  Just yet another minor disappointment from Harbor Freight.  At least the hydraulic lift worked, so I'm thankful for that.


----------



## rabler (Oct 16, 2021)

I think going down the steps you reduce the tension somewhat due to the ramp effect of the stairs.  Also, in extending a block and tackle, won't the friction play to your advantage to keep the lathe from going down quickly?


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 16, 2021)

rabler said:


> I think going down the steps you reduce the tension somewhat due to the ramp effect of the stairs.  Also, in extending a block and tackle, won't the friction play to your advantage to keep the lathe from going down quickly?


Agreed with your first sentence.  For the second, not sure.  Sometimes friction is not your friend.  Jamming up due to load is not so good.


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 16, 2021)

Thinking about buying a box of 10 bearings, something like 6200-2RS which is 10mm ID, 30mm OD and 9mm wide.  I can get some ABEC-3 shielded bearings for around $13 for 10.  They won't be awesome, but I think they are rated for 500 lbs each.  Can someone recommend a place with a decent bearing catalog that I can search?  I can machine the pulleys out of aluminum or steel.  My piece of 1"x4" A36 could serve as the pulley housings.  Probably have to fiddle about with spacers to center the pulleys in the slots, but that shouldn't be hard.

Or I could just buy an electric winch somewhere.  The electric winch would be easier to operate, as long as the remote was long enough.  Making a big block and tackle would be fun though.


----------



## rabler (Oct 16, 2021)

WobblyHand said:


> Making a big block and tackle would be fun though.


Fortunately you already have a working lathe.

Was good to meet you, glad to host you for the night.   Nobody around me that I know is also a hobby machinist so it was fun to talk to someone else with similar interests!


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 16, 2021)

Just ordered a display unit from Delta.  KPE-LE02.  $23.15 including shipping.  In case I want to fiddle with things.


rabler said:


> Was good to meet you, glad to host you for the night. Nobody around me that I know is also a hobby machinist so it was fun to talk to someone else with similar interests!


Your machines were amazing.  Not only _really_ big, but beautiful works of art.  You have done a great job so far in your rebuilding.

Thinking about this, I am going to try making the block and tackle.


----------



## woodchucker (Oct 16, 2021)

those wheels are like all other polyurethane wheels I've had... short lives.. My woodshop has many , many sets that have disentegrated. Calling the original sellers to complain , they tell me they have never heard of that... but one of the vendors sells the wheels separately, so what does that tell ya.

Rather than pay their price I ordered from https://shop.servicecaster.com/ in case you are interested.

I made ramps, I use a HF electric winch to raise and lower. I tried with a hand cranked winch...  I'll say that was a big mistake. The electric winch is totally controllable.  A cheap solution is the 12V and use a battery.


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 16, 2021)

woodchucker said:


> those wheels are like all other polyurethane wheels I've had... short lives.. My woodshop has many , many sets that have disentegrated. Calling the original sellers to complain , they tell me they have never heard of that... but one of the vendors sells the wheels separately, so what does that tell ya.
> 
> Rather than pay their price I ordered from https://shop.servicecaster.com/ in case you are interested.
> 
> I made ramps, I use a HF electric winch to raise and lower. I tried with a hand cranked winch...  I'll say that was a big mistake. The electric winch is totally controllable.  A cheap solution is the 12V and use a battery.


Thanks for the report on the lives of the wheel coverings.  I really wasn't that surprised.  Yeah, they all plead ignorant.  That's because they never use their product.  Thanks for the link.

After the disintegrating wheels, I'm hesitant to use an HF electric winch if there are humans in the way, or at the bottom of the stairwell.  That human might be me.  The stairwell is narrow, so pretty hard to jump out of the way.  Zero trust in a hand winch, just because they rarely have big enough cranks to make it easy to control.  

My batting average with HF is better than 85%, but just don't trust their equipment with my life, or a buddy's.  Block and tackles are easy for me to understand.  Yes they can be dangerous, but I understand those risks.


----------



## woodchucker (Oct 16, 2021)

WobblyHand said:


> Thanks for the report on the lives of the wheel coverings.  I really wasn't that surprised.  Yeah, they all plead ignorant.  That's because they never use their product.  Thanks for the link.
> 
> After the disintegrating wheels, I'm hesitant to use an HF electric winch if there are humans in the way, or at the bottom of the stairwell.  That human might be me.  The stairwell is narrow, so pretty hard to jump out of the way.  Zero trust in a hand winch, just because they rarely have big enough cranks to make it easy to control.
> 
> My batting average with HF is better than 85%, but just don't trust their equipment with my life, or a buddy's.  Block and tackles are easy for me to understand.  Yes they can be dangerous, but I understand those risks.


well with the winch you don't get under the equip, you lower it from the top.
I made a ramp down the stairs, and at the top the winch sits... and so do I.


https://imgur.com/a/vOS1Mrd


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 16, 2021)

The easy way is to use the electric winch.  No argument.  I will make something similar for the ramp.  Not sure I trust either my life, or my lathe to an HF winch.  The landing is 3 feet wide and ends in a granite wall.  Somehow I need to make a right angle turn with the lathe with the heavy end resting on the steps.  Once I get the light end supported by the stand, I can get help swiveling the heavy end up on the wheeled lathe stand.

Where did you anchor the winch?  Isn't it in the way of the object that you are lowering?  Was thinking of anchoring the winch or block and tackle on a 6x6 or similar across the doorway, but that blocks the entrance to the stairs.  Don't have any experience with this, so floundering about a bit here.


----------



## woodchucker (Oct 16, 2021)

So if you look at my setup there. I have 2x4's in an L using a bridle joint. That pushes against the door, and the 2x4 on the floor takes the load, the winch is attached to the 2x4 with structural spax screws.. I could have used lags or other, but the rating is good enough. The middle casting to the surface grinder was about 400lbs and no problems.  My lathe is only 350 max.. SB9 probably more like 300 it rode down a piece at a time by hand.
The mill the same.. after that, I said no more... I need to be able to lower it down. carrying down 200lb pieces is asking for an accident. So for the surface grinder, I enjoyed having the winch.

I just built a new vanity for the bathroom, it went up using the winch no problem.. it was way over size, and the only time I have been below the trolley...

I made the ramps to be removeable, but after using them so many times for so many things, I leave them on now.  I only have to setup the top to use it.


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 16, 2021)

woodchucker said:


> So if you look at my setup there. I have 2x4's in an L using a bridle joint. That pushes against the door, and the 2x4 on the floor takes the load, the winch is attached to the 2x4 with structural spax screws.. I could have used lags or other, but the rating is good enough. The middle casting to the surface grinder was about 400lbs and no problems.  My lathe is only 350 max.. SB9 probably more like 300 it rode down a piece at a time by hand.
> The mill the same.. after that, I said no more... I need to be able to lower it down. carrying down 200lb pieces is asking for an accident. So for the surface grinder, I enjoyed having the winch.
> 
> I just built a new vanity for the bathroom, it went up using the winch no problem.. it was way over size, and the only time I have been below the trolley...
> ...


I'm missing something.  I can't see the top of the stairs in the photo, nor do I see a door.  Understand the bridle el joint now that I've looked at the photo a 3rd time!  Lathe is around 350 lbs.  I don't understand the tipping the lathe over the edge of the stairs part and keeping it under control. Would the lathe slide down until it takes up the slack of the cable?  You made a separate sled that the payload was bolted to?  Where is the cable attached to on the sled, the front or the back?


----------



## woodchucker (Oct 16, 2021)

yea, I use a trolley, like a dolly, it has a big eyebolt and the cable can directly attach to that, or I use a snatch block attached to that, and back up to the winch.. that way I can handle more weight, and/or slow down the winch... The trolley is always under the winches control, even when sending it over the edge. I used 5" wheels which gives me a 6" clearance to make the transition.  I am never in free fall mode. If I had the cieling height  on the stairs I would have made a much different trolley that was high on the downside and low on the up side to keep the weight more balanced for high cg items. I strap the items to the trolley, usually around trolley.  If I did it again, I would use angle iron and V type wheels.. it just makes good sense.


----------



## RJSakowski (Oct 17, 2021)

I have the 602.  The carriage and apron come off and go back on fairly easily, as does the tailstock and chuck.  This will reduce your weight. significantly.

I have moved all my machines down a stairway to my basement shop using a ramp.  What @woodchucker  shows will work great.  The only thing that I would add would be tie straps to keep the two ramps from sliding apart.  When I moved my machines in. I used a come along to pull the machine down the ramp and a second one to restrain it in case of a runaway.  I have a second wall in my basement that splits the basement in two and I bridged that with a piece of heavy wall tubing for an anchor.  Once on the basement floor, I used a jimmy to walk the machine to its final resting spot.  Some pipe rollers will make the job easier.  

To lift the lathe onto the stand, I made a skyhook consisting of a length of 1" Allthread bridging two floor joists with a length of 1" pipe over that and two nuts to tighten it all.  A short length of chain and a replacement link made the loop for the come along and Nylon strapping at the lathe end.


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 17, 2021)

RJSakowski said:


> I have the 602.  The carriage and apron come off and go back on fairly easily, as does the tailstock and chuck.  This will reduce your weight. significantly.
> 
> I have moved all my machines down a stairway to my basement shop using a ramp.  What @woodchucker  shows will work great.  The only thing that I would add would be tie straps to keep the two ramps from sliding apart.  When I moved my machines in. I used a come along to pull the machine down the ramp and a second one to restrain it in case of a runaway.  I have a second wall in my basement that splits the basement in two and I bridged that with a piece of heavy wall tubing for an anchor.  Once on the basement floor, I used a jimmy to walk the machine to its final resting spot.  Some pipe rollers will make the job easier.
> 
> To lift the lathe onto the stand, I made a skyhook consisting of a length of 1" Allthread bridging two floor joists with a length of 1" pipe over that and two nuts to tighten it all.  A short length of chain and a replacement link made the loop for the come along and Nylon strapping at the lathe end.


Great explanation.  Where I'm weak, is recognizing good anchor points.  Only somewhat ok anchor point above I can determine is the door frame. Below, all I have is the wooden stairs.  The wall opposite the landing is made of irregular granite boulder blocks quarried around 1850.  Not sure I'd like to put in an anchor there, although it would be useful.  You have given me some ideas, and I will look around down in the basement with a different perspective.


----------



## RJSakowski (Oct 17, 2021)

Your greatest need will be to provide a restraining force to prevent a slideaway.  I used a come along and would give it a couple of inches of free play and a modest push would  slide the lathe down until the come along restrained it again.  It was slow going but uneventful.  With two people working it , it would have been fairly efficient.


----------



## woodchucker (Oct 17, 2021)

RJSakowski said:


> What @woodchucker  shows will work great.  The only thing that I would add would be tie straps to keep the two ramps from sliding apart.


I used to use a rail at the top and bottom to keep them together, then I redid that and added these, they prevent the separation and allow me to keep it on the stairs full time without interfering with walking up and down.  My side rails are keyed so they stay together.  BTW I re-enforced my stair case before I did this, years before, because I always felt the stairs giving in the middle as I walked up and down.  When you realize the stairs are precariously held against the next floor only, it's a good idea. I used 2x4's and ply gussets to keep them in place... works great.. nice and stiff.

These blocks are in multiple locations up the ramp. Also additional blocks that don't go to wall are installed for added slide support.
That joint for the ramp slideway is a half lap joint to support the joint, and there is a block under it.
Also all blocks have drawer liner attached at the bottom to prevent slipping, not really necessary, but a good idea.


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 26, 2021)

More or less have a plan now, and a pile of assorted lumber.  Have material for the ramps, and landing extension.  The landing extension will have room to set the whole lathe down at 31" above the floor.  This is conveniently within an inch of the lathe stand height.  Been waiting for a break in the weather to do the woodwork, as I have to do the large stuff outside.  Unfortunately there's a nor'easter right now, but, maybe I can sneak in an hour between downpours. 

Have a question about the height of the anchors across the doorways.  Is it better to have them down lower, or higher?  My buddy says it is better to have them up high near the top of the door.  This makes me uneasy, but I can't put my finger on why.  I was thinking the anchors should be high enough for the lathe to go under but low enough to step over. Higher would be more convenient, but would require more lumber.  Is it stronger or better to go higher in the doorway, up near the head jam?


----------



## woodchucker (Oct 26, 2021)

@WobblyHand I don't know what you are designing. Or what you are doing really.  So hard to answer.

I can say that you want to attach to multiple points on the machine, low and high.. if your machine is top heavy, than you need to lower the cg, by removing the weight up top, or adding weight to the bottom.  Out riggers also help... so if you have walls going down the stairs attach 2x4s to the top with wheels on the ends to keep the machine from going over...

But without seeing what you are doing, I can't understand what you are talking about for anchor points..


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 26, 2021)

woodchucker said:


> @WobblyHand I don't know what you are designing. Or what you are doing really.  So hard to answer.
> 
> I can say that you want to attach to multiple points on the machine, low and high.. if your machine is top heavy, than you need to lower the cg, by removing the weight up top, or adding weight to the bottom.  Out riggers also help... so if you have walls going down the stairs attach 2x4s to the top with wheels on the ends to keep the machine from going over...
> 
> But without seeing what you are doing, I can't understand what you are talking about for anchor points..


My apologies.  Seemed to split the thread, my bad.  Basement_entrance.pdf shows the house doorways.  Idea was to have a braced 4x4 across main house entrance and a 4x4 across the external doorway.  Use an electric winch (attached to exterior doorway) going through a snatch block (which is attached to the 4x4 across the main house entryway).  Shamelessly attaching @Flyinfool's markup of my drawing.  This is a birdseye view, looking from the ceiling down.  It does not show height.


My question is not about the load.  It is "how high in Z should the brown bar be? " If I attach an electric winch across the external doorway, how high in Z should it be?  Obviously the red cable has to be above the top step and never rub on anything.  The blue circle is a snatch block.

The temporary landing (green steps in sideview_basement_stairs) is for my convenience to have the lathe at nearly the same height as the lathe stand. The lathe stand has wheels so then my buddy and I can move it to the right place.

Hope this is a little clearer.  If not, please ask, and I will try to explain it better.


----------



## woodchucker (Oct 26, 2021)

I think you have to realize that this is risky doing a side pull. 
you can't just use a lag bolt. I would do a through bolt of a set of studs, not a single stud. That way you are assured it won't pull out.
As for the question, this is where I bail out. I have too little info. Only you can determine whether your structure, process, etc will work.
the top and bottom not being equal add a level of complexity, since they are not the same rate / angle as the others.
I realize you are talking an old house 1875, so that adds other factors in. 

As I said in mine, I added supports under my stairs to aid in taking the load. I didn't like only having a landing header attachment. My stairs flexed too much.  

All these issues make me realize I could give you bad information. I presented the idea, but the engineering will have to come from you, and your friend... sorry... but ultimately you are responsible for knowing about things I can't know about.


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 26, 2021)

woodchucker said:


> I think you have to realize that this is risky doing a side pull.
> you can't just use a lag bolt. I would do a through bolt of a set of studs, not a single stud. That way you are assured it won't pull out.
> As for the question, this is where I bail out. I have too little info. Only you can determine whether your structure, process, etc will work.
> the top and bottom not being equal add a level of complexity, since they are not the same rate / angle as the others.
> ...


Understood.  Not sure where you got the idea to use a lag bolt, nor where it would go.  My anchors would be 4x4 beams across the doorways. The left anchor would have a through 1/2" eye bolt rated for 2100 lbs vertical lift.   (With big washers as well.)  The winch would be bolted to the other 4x4 (or 6x6). 

Neither you nor I know exactly how the house was built.  Neither of us has the plans.  My basement stairs seem to be adequately reinforced. They are not an issue. I'm only trying to get a 300 lb stripped lathe down the stairs.  With the angles I have on the chain and cable being roughly equal (56 and 52 degrees) the load on the doorways should be reasonably split, I think.  If you think otherwise, please correct me - that's why I am posting.

I suppose one approach would be to maintain the downstairs slope for the cable.  By my CAD dwg (based on measurements) the slope of the steps is 44 degrees.  As a very good approximation, that is a slope of 1.  I can then set up the cable to roughly continue at this slope, but, I don't think it is truly necessary.  Again, if anyone thinks otherwise, please let me know, gently or otherwise.

To be honest, I was trying to get third and fourth opinions.  Haven't done something like this before, and am therefore proceeding perhaps too cautiously.  At the moment, I have no way of gauging my buddy's construction knowledge.  Yes, I know he's done lots of stuff, but I have no idea how close to the edge he's been.  

Anyways, here is a slightly more filled in drawing.  The cable is centered in the doorway.  I may eliminate the chain and use steel cable, to reduce the weight.  Think the snatch block should be a little further away from the opening, but there's not a lot of room to work with.


----------



## Flyinfool (Oct 26, 2021)

Some thoughts.
1. Move the winch more to the right so you have approximately a 75/25% split. This will put a more equal load on both sides of the door frame.
2. The snatch block will not stay where you have drawn it. It will swing more to the right. The angle of the snatch block line will approximately bisect the angle of the red line.
3. The eye bolt in the brown 4x4 needs to be either a forged or have the end welded closed. The bent ones can open under load. The load ratings are for a straight pull, it will be significantly derated for your side pull.
4. For the 4x4 in the Main House, I would add the extra piece of wood so that it is on 3 sides of the column near the steps. since the screw eye is a bit out from the beam there is the possibility of the stair side of that beam kicking out toward the main house.


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 26, 2021)

Flyinfool said:


> Some thoughts.
> 1. Move the winch more to the right so you have approximately a 75/25% split. This will put a more equal load on both sides of the door frame.
> 2. The snatch block will not stay where you have drawn it. It will swing more to the right. The angle of the snatch block line will approximately bisect the angle of the red line.
> 3. The eye bolt in the brown 4x4 needs to be either a forged or have the end welded closed. The bent ones can open under load. The load ratings are for a straight pull, it will be significantly derated for your side pull.


I've decided to not use the snatch block, nor the winch.  Instead I will mount chain in the forged eye bolt to the left and use another forged eye bolt where the winch was.  Good idea to move the winch/eye bolt over to be more offset in the exterior doorway.  Will then put in a carabiner in the chain so the carabiner is centered in the basement doorway.  Will then use a come-along to lower the load.  

I don't own an electric winch, and the only affordable 120V winch that I can buy is from Harbor Freight.  The cable diameter is 5/32" (4mm) which I do not find comforting.  The winch is claimed to have 1500 lb capacity, but it uses 422 lb safe working load cable.  I'd rather spend the $165 winch cost on lathe tooling.

I saw the bent eye bolts at Tractor Supply and thought to myself, umm, I will take a hard pass on them.  Decided to use a 1/2" forged eye bolt for the derating.  Should be strong enough even off axis.  

One thing that I need to watchout for is stuff digging into the floor.  Plan to put down 3/4" plywood (maybe two layers) to protect the tile floor and a guard on the lip of the basement stairs.  My better half reminded me we don't even have 1 whole spare tile left, so I'd better not crack one!  She also reminded me that tile pattern is no longer available.

Do you have any recommendations for the Z height of the 4x4's?  Is floor level desirable, or should they be up off the floor on a pedestal of some sort?


----------



## rabler (Oct 26, 2021)

Pro’s and con’s on 4x4 height:
1/2 way up maximizes the bending stress on the wall studs but shares the shearing forces between top and bottom nails.  Nearer the bottom reduces the bending stress but puts all the shear on the lower set of nails.

Lower does reduce the angle to the lathe to more near horizontal, which means less of the lathe weight is born by any of the rigging.


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 26, 2021)

It's a question of, "how strong are the toe nails holding vs how strong are the studs?"  For the moment, I am betting on the toe nailing being stronger.  If the nails are anything like what I pulled out of the stairs, the toe nailing will be very strong.  Nice, old fashioned, beefy, long cut nails.

Lower 4x4's are easier to deal with and requires less materials.  Bracing is minimal.  (Can't fall down, because it's already on the floor!) Considering that the pallet was pulled onto the porch using the bottom of the exterior doorway alone (and nothing moved, groaned, or complained,) and now the load would be shared with the other doorway, I think it will be ok to use 4x4's laying on the floor.  Or at least that's the plan for now.


----------



## Flyinfool (Oct 26, 2021)

I would keep the rigging on the floor and use a roller bar or slide bar on the top corner of the step.


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 27, 2021)

Flyinfool said:


> I would keep the rigging on the floor and use a roller bar or slide bar on the top corner of the step.


What is a slide bar?  A roller bar is like a conveyor roller?  Does the weight limit need to be greater than 350 lbs (approx load with trolley)?


----------



## Flyinfool (Oct 27, 2021)

Slide bar is something smooth and slippery, Like the snow sled I mentioned earlier. It is just to keep the rope or cable from abrading on the sharp corner of the step, AND to protect the corner of the step which could save your life after the OWMBO checks things out.
The weight on the slide or roller will be a lot less than your 350lb load. Just how much less depends on the angles and to coefficient of friction of whatever you use.


----------



## WobblyHand (Oct 28, 2021)

Made a platform (landing) at the end of the stairs.  The platform is roughly the same height as the lathe stand.  It is 37" long and 32" wide.





This platform is pretty sturdy.  Can't move it, at all.  Can't say it is pretty though.  Not shown are the internal braces and things tying the platform to the steps.  Last photo is of the lathe stand and chip pan, showing the height.

Cut up the ramp material.  Have to figure out the width of the trolley, which drives the ramp spacing.  The trolley has an asymmetric load, so I need to account for it. 

Don't like working with wood.  Darn sawdust gets everywhere, including on both sides of my glasses.  At least today I remembered to wear a face mask, and ear plugs inside, that helped.  Wood grading is a joke.  Pretty ugly, knotty, warped, stapled stuff and it is called _prime_.  (Prime junk.) Word inflation.  Grumble, get off my lawn...

Tomorrow is time to work on the trolley and ramp.


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 3, 2021)

Stuff happened...  So didn't get to work on this much.  Three days ago, I went to the garage to see if I could use my table saw to cut the 44 degree angles for the ramp blocks.  As I was turning the angle adjust crank on the saw, it was getting harder and harder to do.  Then heard a crack sound. The 30 year old plastic hand crank failed.  The D section gave up and the hub cracked.  Not going to get another plastic wheel.



Looked around for some hand wheels and saw the cost was pretty high, higher than what I wanted to pay on a saw that I hadn't used in 15 years.  Decided to make a handle out of scraps that I could find around the shop.

Design was a crank lever with a rotating handle.  Hub was a piece of A36 1x1 stock cut to 1.125" long.  Drill 1/2 diameter hole 5/8" deep.  Drill through hole for a 10-32 screw, matching the D shaft.  Put in a 1/4-20 set screw.  Lever was a piece of rusty scrap 1/8" x 1", cut to 3.5" long.  After the hub was complete, I welded the lever to the hub.  Welds weren't pretty, but they are good enough.  You are looking at version 2.  Version 1 I did on my mini-lathe and had an unexpected flub up.  Somehow the taper in the tailstock was not seated well enough and the drill wallowed around.  Had a 0.560" hole.  No good.  Supposed to be 0.50"  Did it over on the mill.  Came out as I had expected.


Used a piece of 1/2" rod 3.5" long and single point threaded one end to 3/8-16 for a length of 5/8".   At the other end, it was drilled and tapped for 1/4-20.  Then made a thick washer that was 3/4" OD, and 1/4" ID.

Finally cut a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe that was just smaller in length than the distance between the lever and the washer.  I present to you - scrap box hand crank.


The hand crank fit perfectly on the angle D-shaft.  This fixed my saw.  So I cut some wood.  Cut the 44 degree (or close) pieces for the stairs.  Also cut the wood for the trolley.  Finally get to put somethings together tomorrow.


Now have the eye-bolts and hopefully all the hardware to proceed.  Definitely fall here.  Temperature is only in the 50's during the day time. (10C)


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 4, 2021)

Made the sled/trolley.  2x4 rails, 2x6 top cross piece, with a 2x10 bottom piece to hold the heavy end.  Think I am going to put on wheels.  Anything to help maneuver this thing around the doorways.  Have some 5" castors I can repurpose.  They came from my HF Yukon rolling toolbox.  Should be ok for this use.



Cut up a 4x4 to fit across the doorways and some of the short cross pieces.  Neither my Skil saw, nor my table saw has a blade big enough for a single cut.   Stopped putting things together as my drill battery gave out.  I had built the stairway, the 3 stage platform, and the sled all on a single charge.  Can't complain about battery life.  At least there was some progress!


----------



## Flyinfool (Nov 4, 2021)

Sure looks like you are on track.


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 9, 2021)

Cut up some plywood to cover the tile flooring.  Fit it to the basement stairs opening.




There will be a similar set up on the green door, but the bar will be against the exterior of the door.  Didn't want to remove the storm door, unless actually moving the lathe.  Removal is more complicated than just lifting the door.  (I just lifted the exterior door and basement door off the hinge pins to do all the plywood work.)

Set up the chain.  Going to be a little touchy going over the edge until the slack is taken up.  I have been thinking of putting a sling around both the tailstock and the headstock.  Both slings will be controlled by the come along.  Intend for the light end (tailstock)to go over the edge first.  The forward sling will stop the lathe before the headstock end gets on the ramp.  The main sling will go around the headstock.  It will also connect to the come along.  Have to think of a way that the slings don't jump out of the come along hook before getting under load.


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 10, 2021)

Lathe has been moved from the pallet to the trolley.  It wasn't that hard.  Jacked up the pallet to take it off the furniture dolly.  Put in miscellaneous pieces of lumber to hold up the pallet.  By the time I had gotten it high enough, I had pretty much run out of scraps.  Fortunately it was good enough and was able to remove the dolley.  Then removed the bolts.  Walked the lathe off the pallet onto the trolley.  Tailstock end was easy to move.  The headstock end required some grunt.


Pulled the wooden storm door in anticipation of the move.  For the life of me, I thought I had removed it when I pulled the pallet onto the porch. Couldn't remember how I removed the door.  Found a picture that shows I hadn't removed the door.  (That's why I couldn't remember it!)  After checking all the alternatives, I found that 2 of the hinge pins would move.  Cut a piece of 3/32" TIG welding rod and used it as a punch to tap out the 3 pins.  One of the pins had a damaged end, I'll try to massage it to shape before putting it back.

Unfortunately my buddy is out of town.  Fortunately, my wife met one of our neighbors at a local grocery and she mentioned me working on moving the lathe.  He claimed he'd help me out.  Going to find out soon if that is true.  Problem with new "help" is you don't know their level of aptitude or safety consciousness.  If they are good it is great.  If not, it is better going it alone.


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 10, 2021)

Attempted a rigging dry run.  Learned that there's a difference between hooks.  I had grabbing hooks.  They are very useful for attaching a chain to itself.  Not so useful for hooking onto another hook.  Also learned that 3/8" grabbing hooks don't reliably hold to 5/16 chain.  I wouldn't trust it.  Guess I need to take a ride out to our local Tractor Supply to get some non-grabbing hooks.  Also found I need a 3' piece of 3/8" chain, as a backup.  (Not going to cut my 16' 3/8 chain for that!)  The idea is to have one chain to lower, and one as a safety backup.  Lower until the backup is nearly taught, then let out some more of the backup, and lower again.

I contacted my neighbor and he said he'd help.  That's promising.


----------



## jwmelvin (Nov 10, 2021)

Good work figuring out the weak points before the move. This will be so smooth and rewarding when you do it. Cheers.


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 12, 2021)

Didn't figure out _ALL_ the weak points, but I'm glad that some of them were eliminated.  The lathe is in the basement, and as far as I know so far, undamaged.  My buddy showed up at 7pm (about 4 hours later than he'd promised) and said let's do it.  I thought we would get to a logical stopping point like stopping on the bottom landing and finish it later.  To his credit, he pushed me to get the whole job done.

Glad we had put in safety stops and things like that.  Had some slips in the come-along that were checked/arrested by the safeties. Had a safety chain attached to the headstock, and a safety strap on the tailstock.  Each one was put to the test.  The come-along was attached to a chain though the tailstock casting.  Fortunately everything worked as expected.  Used a Y chain arrangement with 4x4 anchors on the doorways. Worked really well.  For the lowering, everyone was on the topside.  Have to say, I only have one picture of the process.  Here is the lathe just starting the descent and the load is fully taken up by the come-along.  After that, we were too darned busy trying to figure out how to do the next step safely.  I had screwed in a piece of steel (with a radiused edge) to the plywood for the cable to run against.  Was afraid of the cable eating through the plywood.  Worked great.  No damage to the cable, or the steel.


The hardest parts were removing the wheels from the trolley at the bottom landing, with the lathe still on the trolley, and swiveling the headstock off the trolley onto the stand.  I wanted the lathe immobile on the landing.  Why?  The landing was not quite long enough to hold the whole lathe. Lathe trolley is 48", landing is ~36"L x 32"W.   Distance to the back wall, at the bottom of the stairs, to the landing is 21".  Just enough room to get in a small step stool.  Without the wheels, but on the trolley, the lathe height was equal to the lathe stand height.  This made it easier to just swivel over the lathe onto the stand.  There was more grunt work than I had anticipated in that "just swivel it over".  But little by little, managed to do it.  Bolted the lathe to the stand and wheeled it over to the location. 

We were at it until 1:30am.  My buddy helped me clean up the doorways, the chain, the flooring and rehang the doors.  No damage to the tile floor.  Truly a good thing.  

This morning woke up, despite only having slept 5-1/2 hours.  Pretty sore, but still have a lot of cleanup.  Here's the lathe roughly in position.  Need to rehang the exterior storm door, that will be next.


----------



## rabler (Nov 12, 2021)

Glad to see the lathe has made it to it's new home.  As you said, sore muscles, and some work is yet needed to get everything re-assembled.  But the worst of it should be over.


----------



## jwmelvin (Nov 12, 2021)

Glad to hear it went well and that your precautions paid off. The rest should be relatively stress free. Enjoy.


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 13, 2021)

Installed the cross slide and compound today. Then the backsplash.  Thought I'd get that out of the way, prior to leveling.  Then guessed which cable was which for the DRO.  Actually got it the first time.  Plugged in the wall wart and saw the DRO's were running.  Hmm, sort of.  Cross slide doesn't work across the whole range.  Works then skips a bit.  Seems to be some crud on the tape underneath. I'll have to clean it.  The x axis was fine, so happy for that.

Feeling perky, thought I would plug in the lathe and turn it on.  Had wired in an Eaton GFCI on the 20A circuit.  Most of you know what will happen.

Never heard a GFCI make a buzzing noise before! Really wasn't expecting it to work well, but was taken aback by the sound.  The GFCI is fine, but the VFD trips it.  Need to replace the outlet with a non-GFCI outlet, which I don't have at the moment.  Tomorrow's work.


----------



## matthewsx (Nov 13, 2021)

Yep, no GFCI on machine tools.

Glad to hear all your planning and prep paid off....

I always say, you move these things with your brain, not your muscles. Although inevitably you do end up using muscles too

John


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 14, 2021)

Installed a non-GFCI outlet and it's alive!  That's a relief.  

Next is leveling.  Not so sure I did the right thing, but I made (two weeks ago) some feet for the stand using hockey pucks.  Turned them on my mini-lathe.  Wondering if they will end up being too squishy.  However, if I try to rock the stand, I can only get it to move 1 division on the level. Level is a Chinese one that has a sensitivity of 0.02mm/m, which if I did the math right, is equivalent to 0.0002"/10"  (2E-5 unit/unit).  Not sure if the rubber will cold flow under the load.  I did notice that the level indication (towards and away from the operator) varies as the carriage is moved. The level is on 123 blocks on the ways and stationary.  Has anyone seen this level variation before?  Goes away when the lathe is actually level?  (No twist.)


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 15, 2021)

I just realized that I haven't publicly thanked @Flyinfool for his rigging ideas.  So this post is to thank him for the Y-chain/cable rigging concept that worked great!  Had no problems with the anchoring system in the doorways.  No movement, no drama with the anchors.


----------

