# Grizzly For A Beginner



## abrace (Dec 29, 2015)

All,

          Been lurking for a little bit. I currently do some welding (in night school, part time) and think that learning how to machine would be a good thing to know. I do not have any specific projects in mind, but I do some work building small wall safes (1/4" and 3/16" sheet metal) and teller lockers for bigger safes. I think most of my work would be with mild steel. That said who knows what I might need to do down the road.

           I have been looking at the Grizzly G0762 and the Grizzly G0761. Both are essentially the same thing with the 762 having a VFD, but it goes for an extra $500. Is it worth the extra $500 for someone getting started versus spending that money on some tooling?

           If there are any other machines I should look at in this price range please let me know.

           I do not know enough about these machines to risk buying a used machine.

---Aaron


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## tmarks11 (Dec 29, 2015)

Think about it this way: you can always add a VFD at a later date (requires swapping out to a 3 phase motor as well), which would probably run you no more than $500 anyhow.  So if money is tight, the G0761 is perfectly functional, and the VFD is just a nice feature that you can live without for awhile.

Remember that tooling is a significant expense.  You need a vise, end mills, clamping kit, calipers as a start.

EDIT: you might also think about the G0755, as the powered z-axis is a nice-to-have feature.  Probably nicer-to-have than VFD.  You might also consider the Precision Matthews version (PM932); similar price, and Matt has a very good reputation on this forum.

http://machinetoolonline.com/PM-932M.html

All of these mills (called "Rong Fu 45 clones" after the original Taiwanese version) are a good choice with lots of capacity that will take you a while to outgrow.


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## Silverbullet (Dec 30, 2015)

Take your time shop a bit before you buy, way all the plus and minuses. if cost is major even harbor freight sells two desent mills , one is even a knee mill not to big , the other is what they call a mill drill machine or rong fu clone. there's lots of used out there to. tooling can be a major cost if you want top shelf stuff you pay top too. there are some nice clone vises and drill chucks and collets and end mills and drills . deals come up with all the extras included but you got to ck them out.


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## Uglydog (Dec 30, 2015)

While my personal preference is big vintage USA iron, there is nothing wrong with small or import machines and tooling.
They all have there +/-. On very careful inspection you may find that good used has a better price point than new, and thereby represents a better value.
As you are thinking through this, also consider how much space you have, how you intend to load/unload, and if you expect to move your household/shop in the next several years.
You can't always pack this stuff in the back of a Prius or even a 3/4t truck.

Daryl
MN


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## kingmt01 (Dec 31, 2015)

For that price I'd go with a knee mill. I have a HF knee mill that was less then $2K. Not knowing what you will be getting into consider this, you can build small parts on a big machine easier then you can build big parts on a little machine. I was always finding my little knee mill to small so I bought a bigger one. Luckily they both use the same tooling so everything except the bar clamp kit could be used on the larger mill. The small bar clamps still fit my little rotary table so there is no loss there ether.

If suggest picturing the biggest project you think you will ever need then plan for bigger. Your budget will dictate where to stop.

I also suggest going to Enco to set up a account & get on the email list. Put some tooling in your cart & wait on a double offer of 20% off & free shipping. 

R8 tooling is pretty common & I believe one of the cheaper but your machine will dictate which you will need. Same for a bar clamp set & vise. Stuff like chuck, fly cutters, end mills will be universal. You'll want a dial indicator & stand also which would probably be cheaper from eBay. Go put together your shopping cart with what you think you need to see the cost & this may also dictate which machine you go with. Not knowing your projects you may want to look into a boring bar set also.

Welcome to the forum.


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## abrace (Dec 31, 2015)

All,

           This is some great feedback. Thank you very much.

           Another question as I continue down this path.

           If you can only afford one machine to get started, what would it be? A lathe or a mill?

---Aaron


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## Uglydog (Dec 31, 2015)

Great question.
Do you see yourself doing more round stuff or flat stuff?
I began by looking for both because I couldn't decide. 
I happened to find a used Logan lathe which met my needs and price point before I found a mill.
Before I could use my Logan I had to rebuild the headstock. Learned heaps!

Daryl
MN


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## tmarks11 (Dec 31, 2015)

What you absolutely, definitely don't want to do is start with a "3N1" (combined lathe and mill).

I personally would start with a mill... which is what I did...

but... you can find "milling attachments" that allow you to chuck the endmill in the spindle of a lathe, and the milling attachment holds a vise perpendicular to the spindle (if you are desperate to mill something and only have a lathe).


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## abrace (Jan 1, 2016)

All,

           Thanks for all the feedback. I ended up buying a G4003G 12x36 lathe from Grizzly. I was interested in the Precision Matthews as well, but felt the Grizzly made more sense for a beginner with their better manuals and slightly better spare parts availability. I ordered it last night to beat the January 1st price increase. I felt that a lathe would help me do more of what I am unable to do today, once I figure out how to do it.

            I also appreciate the comments about a 3N1, it is certainly tempting to purchase one and kill 2 birds with one stone, so that help me decide to go with standalone machines.

           I appreciate the feedback, I am sure when I am ready to buy a mill I will be back for more advice on that as well.

---Aaron


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## kingmt01 (Jan 1, 2016)

Keep an eye on your pulley. I'm not the only one that has had one back off the motor.


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## abrace (Jan 1, 2016)

Will do. Set screw just back out of the pulley? Any damage when the pulley flew off?


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## kingmt01 (Jan 2, 2016)

On mine it can't fly off because the cover stops it. It has been a while for me to exactly remember but I know it came right back off when I put it back on so I staked the end of the motor shaft. Seems like I was in a hurry when it happened & the work in the machine was more pressing then the machine at the time. It hasn't happened again since. The only damage was done paint rubbed off the cover & it cost me some time. I haven't had to many problems with my Grizzly buy they do need some nutting & bolting done.


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## tmarks11 (Jan 2, 2016)

congrats, now you gotta get ready for your lathe to arrive, and figure out what tooling to buy.

Did you order any tooling, and how are you set up for dial indicators?

Enco is a great place to buy accessories, but wait until the biweekly 20% off coupon shows up before you buy.


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## abrace (Jan 2, 2016)

tmarks11 said:


> congrats, now you gotta get ready for your lathe to arrive, and figure out what tooling to buy.
> 
> Did you order any tooling, and how are you set up for dial indicators?
> 
> Enco is a great place to buy accessories, but wait until the biweekly 20% off coupon shows up before you buy.



Yah, tell me about it, I am still finishing up my shop. Plan to have my electrical inspection this week.

I placed an order from Enco last week when they were running the last 20% off sale. I have practically nothing, so I ordered the following. Please let me know what I am missing.

DTE Oils for Gearbox/Head
Starrett Machinists Level
Vactra Oil for Ways
Interapid DTI 312B-1
Import 1/2" Tool holders (5)
10 Carbide Inserts (from Ebay)
Couple of 3/8x1/2 HSS tool bit blanks
Noga magnetic base
import 6" metal ruler
import 12" metal ruler
Mitutoyo 6" calipers
An import generic 12 piece machinists measuring tools Enco PN 600-1000 (backordered)

Thats it for now. I know I am missing a ton of stuff. Anything major I need to get started, please let me know. Thanks for the advice.


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## kingmt01 (Jan 2, 2016)

Wire to hook it up.  Levelers maybe.

Do you have a means of handling it when the truck gets there? A cherry picker (engine host) may come in handy.


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## abrace (Jan 2, 2016)

Any suggestions on levelers?

I have the harbor freight shop/engine crane, and I also have a tractor with a set of forks that can lift about 1000lbs...this lathe will be marginal for that, but maybe I can remove some parts from it to lighten it up.

---Aaron


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## kingmt01 (Jan 2, 2016)

That lathe is probably under half a ton so you should be good there. 

You could cut a chunk of rubber from a tire &a blank of steel. Drill a hole half way through the steel & run a bolt into it with a couple of nuts to lock & maybe a couple of washers for easier spinning. Or you could just buy some from Enco out eBay.


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## tmarks11 (Jan 3, 2016)

You are going to want a travel indicator like this:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=5283730&PMAKA=890-9824

I also like a magnetic back travel indicator like this (acts s a poor man's DRO for cross feed or Z movement, you stick it to the ways with the point on the cross slide when you need to measure 0-0.100" movement accurately).




You also need to get a cut-off tool of some variety.  HSS is cheap to start, but carbide insert ones  work so much better.



kingmt01 said:


> That lathe is probably under half a ton so you should be good there.


While the lathe weighs 882#, be careful with picking it up with your 1000# rated FEL, since you will be near the limit, especially with the offset from the bucket attachment point to where the lathe is attached will reduce your load capacity.

The manual provides specific instructions how to use straps for picking it up, since if you put them in the wrong place you can bend the leadscrew, which would be bad.

The manual provides a specific hour long initial break-in process for running in the spindle, so make sure you follow that before you start doing some crazy cutting.

If you haven't used a gear-head lathe:
- sometimes it is difficult to switch between gears because teeth don't align.  You can solve this by rotating the chuck by hand (preferred) until you can slip it into gear or VERY briefly tapping the JOG button to move the gearing a bit so it will slip in (stand by for the crowds that don't like this idea...).
- Also, sometimes you run into the same issue where you can't get longitudinal or cross power feed to engage.  Rotate the carriage hand wheel (longitudinal feed) or cross slide handle (cross) slightly to allow the gears to mesh.
- When threading, you don't have to slam the half-nuts into position at the precise moment that the needle lines up with the threading dial.  The half-nut will only drop in when it lines up, which might be a little off from the needle (and that is OK)... just ease it in and you can feel when it can engage.


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## abrace (Jan 3, 2016)

Tim,

             Getting the thing up the driveway with the tractor is what I am worried about the most. I have a 300' driveway with a bit of an incline, there is no way the tractor trailer can get up it my driveway, so that will be my responsibility. It is a gravel driveway so a pallet jack is out. My option is the tractor.

         All I have to do is lift it a couple of inches with the forks and slowly move up the driveway, but it is still pushing the limits of the tractor.

              Good news is that I have a set of real forks for the FEL and not the clamp onto the bucket variety, so that should help keep the load closer to the tractor. Grizzly has the shipping weight in at 1300 lbs, but that includes the stand, pallets, and all the accessories. If you are right and the lathe itself weighs in at closer to 900lbs, I should be in better shape.

             As to a gear head lathe, well, I have never run a lathe of any type at all. None. I am sure this is going to be a very interesting experience, but I gotta learn somehow 

            Thanks for all the tips!

---Aaron


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## abrace (Jan 3, 2016)

Tim,

            Is there a specific magnetic back dial indicator you would recommend? Thanks for the flip on the Fowler. From what I have read they are decent for the money.


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## tmarks11 (Jan 3, 2016)

I bought mine from MSC Direct:

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/00449447?item=00449447

I normally steer clear of them (and non-brand name import stuff), since their normal prices are very expensive, but IIRC I got it on a 35% off coupon, which made this affordable and I have no complaints about the indicator.  I liked it enough to go back and buy another.

One of these days I need to install a DRO...


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## kingmt01 (Jan 3, 2016)

Do you have a pickup truck or trailer to haul it up there drive way?

All I've ran is a great head which after about two years it still isn't smooth enough to change gears on the fly. I need mine almost stopped or completely stopped to change gears. Except for cutting direction which I don't change on the fly often but that one is actually easier to change on the fly.

I really agree with what he said in the threads dial. When it is almost in position I put slight pressure on it & let it drop into the right place. I sometimes get distracted & have to wait on the next time around.


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## tmarks11 (Jan 4, 2016)

abrace said:


> Getting the thing up the driveway with the tractor is what I am worried about the most. I have a 300' driveway with a bit of an incline, there is no way the tractor trailer can get up it my driveway, so that will be my responsibility. It is a gravel driveway so a pallet jack is out. My option is the tractor.



That is why I always pick up machines at the freight terminal with my landscape trailer. I too have a 300 ft winding gravel driveway, and if an 18 wheeler managed to make it in, it would never get out again.

If you don't have a trailer, than I would recommend rent8ing a hydraulic drop deck trailer. Sunbelt rents them for $75/day.  You can roll the machine off it with a pallet jack.


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## abrace (Jan 7, 2016)

tmarks11 said:


> That is why I always pick up machines at the freight terminal with my landscape trailer. I too have a 300 ft winding gravel driveway, and if an 18 wheeler managed to make it in, it would never get out again.
> 
> If you don't have a trailer, than I would recommend rent8ing a hydraulic drop deck trailer. Sunbelt rents them for $75/day.  You can roll the machine off it with a pallet jack.



Not a bad idea. I have a trailer.


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## kingmt01 (Jan 7, 2016)

The terminal is over an hour away from me. I just meet them up the road a couple of miles from me. My big mill was to much for me to handle so I stopped at the hardware store & asked them to move it from the truck to the trailer. I do give them business but I don't spend a bunch there. If is good to have a good report with them tho. They like knowing what I'm fading when I come in. They already seem really interested.


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