# Levelling My New Lathe



## Armourer (Aug 28, 2016)

I just picked up a new to me 12X37 lathe and was wondering the best way to level it would be. In the owners manual it states to use a machinists level on the bed to level it. Just wondering if I should go out and pick one of them up, or would a well made level be ok to do it? If a machinist level is required would it get any use after I level my lathe? Hate to spend $100-200 on a tool and only need it once.... Thanks all for helping a beginner!


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## dlane (Aug 28, 2016)

Ied use a regular level, then run a test bar / indicator over it, tweak it in close as you can get it.  
What is it, got pics ?.


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## mikey (Aug 28, 2016)

Welcome to HM, Armourer!

If you search this site you will find a large number of threads discussing this very subject. Some feel you just need a rudimentary level, like a carpenters lever, while others feel a precision machinist level is required. Even when a precision level is used you will still do test cuts to do the final tweaking to get the machine leveled.

Emco calls for a level with 0.02mm/Meter for my lathe, which is a very precise level. When I use that to level the lathe and then do a 2-collar test to finalize the process it normally takes less than 1/8 turn on one leveling foot to reach final level. 

I normally level my lathe 1-2 times per year or whenever I move the lathe for some reason. I also use it to level other folk's lathes so while it isn't something I pull out all that often, I do use it.


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## Splat (Aug 29, 2016)

The machinist's level will help get you closer to level than a standard level, however the ultimate test is test cuts. Not until you take some test cuts will you know how level the ways are.


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## Armourer (Aug 29, 2016)

Thank you for the help! I would post pics, but don't have any at the moment... On holidays and away from home!


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## pugslyyy (Aug 30, 2016)

I picked up a cheap Chinese level off of ebay for under $70

Calibrating it was a little tricky compared to a better level, but it was a heckuva lot cheaper.

"*8" Master Precision Level Graduation .0005 Bar Level Measurement Leveler*"


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## minions (Aug 31, 2016)

pugslyyy said:


> I picked up a cheap Chinese level off of ebay for under $70
> 
> Calibrating it was a little tricky compared to a better level, but it was a heckuva lot cheaper.
> 
> "*8" Master Precision Level Graduation .0005 Bar Level Measurement Leveler*"



I bought a similar level- I didnt know it has to be calibrated.  Do you mind sharing how you calibrate?  thanks


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## pugslyyy (Aug 31, 2016)

I found this video to be very good.  On a Starrett it is very easy to access the calibration posts, but on my Chinese knockoff you have to pull the plugs at the ends to access the little wheels with the tool that they provide.  I ended up using a pick instead of their tool.

There's not a lot of magic to the process, just patience dealing with something finicky.  Levels are self proving - if you flip them around they should read the same in either direction, so easy to tell if you got it right or not.  I'm sure that the Starrett would have been easier to work with but just wasn't worth the extra cost to me for something I will only pull out a couple of times a year.


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## mikey (Aug 31, 2016)

Unlike your torpedo level from Home Depot, calibrating a precision level is a bit more complicated than just turning it 180 degrees on a flat surface. My Kinex level has a sensitivity of 0.02mm/Meter, or twice as sensitive as a Starrett Master Precision level (0.0005"/foot). Adjusting something like this is not a simple deal. 

There are several things I found that my be important to consider:
*1.* Temperature of the room you're in has to be consistent. Don't work in the sun, and AC is a good thing.
*2.* Use a surface plate that can be leveled on a 3-point platform. I put my surface plate on an adjustable table with three screws so I can get the plate level.
*3.* The level, when turned 180 degrees, must be in the exact same position. Blocks - angle blocks, precision 234 blocks or whatever - are useful for this. One block should contact around the middle of one side of the level and one block must reference the end of the level. If you fail to do this then adjusting the level becomes very difficult.
*4. *The surface plate and the bearing surface of your level has to be clean. Any dust will throw the level off. Windex and a microfiber cloth works well for cleaning.

Then use this info from Level Developments:

*1) Clean the bearing surface, and the underside of the level to remove any dirt or dust. Then place the level onto the bearing surface ready for inspection.*

*2) Note the position of the bubble after it has settled, (settling time can be up to 15 seconds) and then turn the level by 180° and place back onto the surface in the same position as before.*

*3) Note again the position of the bubble after it has settled.*

_** *_*If the level and the surface are set level, then the bubble will be central on both readings.*

_***_*If the level is set level, but the bearing surface is out of level, then the bubble will move in the same direction off-centre when the level is turned through 180°*. *The surface can then be adjusted by this amount. *

_***_*If the bearing surface is set level, and the level is out of level, then the bubble will move in different direction off-centre when the level is turned through 180°*. *The level can then be adjusted to read level. *

* *If the readings are different, then both the level and the surface need to be adjusted.*

I use a bullseye level to get the surface plate roughly level, then followed the steps above to adjust the surface plate to level, then was able to calibrate the level. When adjusting the level, you are attempting to move the bubble by half the cumulative error. Very small adjustments of the calibrating screws are needed so go slow and allow the bubble to fully settle before accepting the adjustment.

Take your time. Once you adjust the level it will tend to stay calibrated unless the bearing surface is damaged. 

I know this may all sound a bit anal but this is what it took to get my level, level. Now that it is calibrated I run a quick check before using it and no further adjustments have been necessary in over 4 years. 

I move my lathe out from time to time to clean or work on the back of it and I don't give it a second thought when I have to move it. Once back in position, I use a little 6" long Starrett 98 to get my lathe roughly level and then throw the Kinex on there. Typically, I can get the lathe leveled in about 10 minutes from start to finish. Of course, that does depend on the phase of the moon and wind direction but its usually done pretty quickly. I wait for 2 days for the lathe to settle, recheck level, take some test cuts and I'm done. I would guess I've done this procedure over 10 times in the last 3-4 years and no longer worry about getting the lathe leveled again. 

I will say that the little 6" Starrett 98 level I have is not adequate for my lathe. The bubble on the Kinex can move almost a full unit before I detect any movement of the Starrett bubble so, for myself, I've settled the question of how good a level I personally need. That is not to say anyone else needs a precision level; just that I like mine. 

Hope this helps.

Mike


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## epanzella (Aug 31, 2016)

I bought the same Chinese 8 inch precision level. To set up a lathe they don't have to be calibrated. The absolute accuracy doesn't mean much when eliminating the twist in a lathe bed. My level has a dot on one end and I use it in the same direction every time, with that dot in the same spot. If the whole lathe is out of level a few tenths one way or the other it doesn't matter as long as both ends are the same. Keep your fingers away from the tube  and handle the level as little as possible as your body heat will move the bubble. I also have a 5c test bar which is handy for checking and lining up the headstock. Of course you could set up the lathe without any of this stuff but it takes longer.


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## pugslyyy (Sep 1, 2016)

epanzella said:


> I bought the same Chinese 8 inch precision level. To set up a lathe they don't have to be calibrated. The absolute accuracy doesn't mean much when eliminating the twist in a lathe bed. My level has a dot on one end and I use it in the same direction every time, with that dot in the same spot. If the whole lathe is out of level a few tenths one way or the other it doesn't matter as long as both ends are the same. Keep your fingers away from the tube  and handle the level as little as possible as your body heat will move the bubble. I also have a 5c test bar which is handy for checking and lining up the headstock. Of course you could set up the lathe without any of this stuff but it takes longer.



Agreed, but if it is going to be off I want to know which direction to avoid coolant pooling, etc if possible.


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## epanzella (Sep 1, 2016)

pugslyyy said:


> Agreed, but if it is going to be off I want to know which direction to avoid coolant pooling, etc if possible.



I'm talking tenths from front to back. The whole scale of the machinist level is only half a thou. Easy to check the level's absolute accuracy, just swap end for end and half the difference is the error. I don't use flood coolant but I would imagine you would set up your drainage pitch from left to right and have the drain at the headstock.


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