# Christmas lights... fighting a losing battle



## woodchucker (Dec 6, 2021)

as the title says.. I feel beaten... I've had an area of the tree (fake) that doesn't light. I have replaced every bulb in the string, and still could not get it to light, now I have another section of the tree, that was lit last year, and is not lit. I figured it has to be one bulb that's loose, but I can't find it. about 60-70 bulbs on the top... I have a few bulbs from the bottom that light, so they should help locate the dead bulb(s) up top... but the tree is winning. Barb wanted to go out and get a new tree, so we went out and she doesn't like anything we've seen.  

So any of you have a secret ...  ... I wonder if my power sensor will pick it up... you know the type you hold near an outlet to see if its powered...
looking for opinions while I go try that idea.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 6, 2021)

No comment . I think my wife reads my posts on here .


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## woodchucker (Dec 6, 2021)

well those sensors must work on magnetic flux, because even the branches (metal cored) without lights show as being powered...


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## woodchucker (Dec 6, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> No comment . I think my wife reads my posts on here .


your no help as usual..


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## matthewsx (Dec 6, 2021)

Just wrap another string of lights on it and call it good.


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## silence dogood (Dec 6, 2021)




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## benmychree (Dec 6, 2021)

Best not to comment!


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## tq60 (Dec 6, 2021)

Typical is series bulbs to allow for led or low voltage.

You can start at the power source and with one side of voltmeter stuck in one side of your outlet check the connections in the socket.

One side should be zero (same side as other voltmeter lead) and other side should be line voltage as it is first bulb.

Count bulbs in string, divide line by that = volts per bulb, some strings are multiples, these have 3 wires so math different.

Divide and concur...after first bulb go 1/2 way or skip a few and check again.

Soon as voltage goes away it was between last and there.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


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## mmcmdl (Dec 6, 2021)

woodchucker said:


> your no help as usual..


Believe me . Better safe than sorry . I have half of the front of the house lit up . God knows I have 1000s of yards of extension cords but of course , can't find them when I need them . I'll finish up tomorrow as the wind is howling tonight . My plan for tomorrow is to go thru all the containers and pull out all the camping crap which is probably where the x cords are . Dogood said it best .


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## RJSakowski (Dec 6, 2021)

Ah, the trials and tribulations of strings of Christmas tree lights.  I fought that battle for decades, literally.  The strings of miniature incandescent lights are series connected so that if one breaks the circuit, they all go out.  The bulbs are designed with a wire wrapped around the two leads so if the filament burns out, the entire line voltage id across the leads which burns through the insulation, restoring the connection.  The problem that arises is that if two or more go, the voltage is shared among them and isnt sufficient to burn through the insulation.  An additional problem arises in that the voltage is now distributed among the remaining good bulbs which stresses them increasing the failure rate.

By the time you get around to diagnosing the bad string, it becomes a statistical nightmare.  The only solution is to pull all the ulbs a nd replace them with new.  Once the string is lit again, you can substitute the old bulbs, one at a time to find the bad bulbs.

Even more insidious were the early LED strings.  They were also series wired to distribute the line voltage to the low voltage LED's.  When one of them went, the whole string went, period.  Our first strings had permanently installed LED's and the only way to diagnose the string was to cut it in half.  One half would be bad and the other good. Then, cut the bad half in half again and repeat.  I ended up with lots of short strings of LED lights.

The newer strings are parallel wired with a low voltage driver.  Now if one goes the remainder remain lit.  Much less stress at Christmas time.  I made this "tree in 2001.  We went to the UK for Christmas so we couldn't have a real tree.  The frame consists of a large ring ant the bottom and a small ring at the top, joined by a six ft. section of 1/4" black pipe. This is the third iteration of lights.  Over 1,000 LED's all wired in parallel.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 6, 2021)

We could always move this thread over onto the " Todays Joke " thread . It would be most appropriate .


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## woodchucker (Dec 6, 2021)

we stopped real trees many, many years ago. My wife always picked trees with hooked bottoms, or older trees that you couldn't fold up, they had to rope a few.  one tree was so bad , but she wouldn't listen, the owner of the tree farm said go take another, she said she wanted that tree, and the guy said, nothing will hold that tree up... eventually she gave in on the idea that her tree picking wasn't working well  That was after one tree that went from one side of the room to the other     honey it's not too big.. yes it is... no it isn't...
or was it the one that I had to tie to the ceiling because of the hook on the bottom that I could not possibly straighten out.. I apparently didn't hit the ceiling joist in the center, I hit it on the edge.. . so it pulled out spectacularly. 
Or the time we had the time of our lives 4 wheeling at a tree farm. Scared the crap out of my son, he was young... thought he would enjoy being airborne.  That was the tree that was so old, that the branches were so strong, it could not go through the hoop to be wrapped up. At first they took small ropes, but they were having problems , they took approx a 1" rope to do the bottom... it didn't go through the door at home... I had to do some trimming...

Hope you enjoyed our Christmas's past...  One of the best things was going to Agway and telling the guy, I would like a base that's going to prevent a divorce.  He said right this way sir, I have the perfect base for you... it was gimbled tree stand
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
... perfect for the family that couldn't pick a good tree.

I always enjoyed going out an picking the tree, especially with friends, but my idea of a tree, and her idea of a tree didn't come together, I looked at it from a practical point of view..   Straight bottom, will it fit  7 foot so I can put the star on the top, and would it fit width wise.. Barb picked out what her heart wanted..

too much info?   I hope you laughed a little, we do when we discuss the past trees these days... you have to learn to laugh at yourselves , and we enjoy a good laugh.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 6, 2021)

Another day , another adventure . Have to make it thru the next few days and then deal with the tree .


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## woodchucker (Dec 6, 2021)

so for those of you that have strings, vs a fake tree. strings are easier compared to a fake tree. you can't tell what's next in line, there are so many lines on a prewired tree. I have given up on trying to follow it. 

With a string of lights I can usually get it. The string on a pre-wired fake tree is a spider web.


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## RJSakowski (Dec 7, 2021)

We have a real tree as well as the electric tree. We went last Friday.  My wife picks out the tree as well as the other greenery.  M<y only input is that it has to be 8 ft or less.  The owner of the tree farm is a friend of 45 years so I go and find out what's new while the tree selection occurs.  My task is to mount it in the stand and bring it into the dining room.  After that, I'm done with it.

We are experiencing a cold snap right now with wind chills below zero predicted for tomorrow but with the next warmup, I'll get the outdoor tree up and lit.  Then I can sit back.


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## silence dogood (Dec 7, 2021)

Forget the wires.  Just hang the bulbs on the tree.  The bulbs can be incandescent, fluorescent, even burned out.  Then just turn on the old Tesla coil. Voila!


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## Doug Gray (Dec 7, 2021)




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## woodchucker (Dec 7, 2021)

Doug that might work on a string, but it won't work on the tree for the same reason my sensor doesn't work. The tree shows up as energized. The metal in the branches is getting a flux ... so even if there are no bulbs on a branch it is electrically positive.  I'll show you later with a video.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 7, 2021)

OK , back to these lights !


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## woodchucker (Dec 7, 2021)

Don't worry, I'm gonna solve the problem in a few minutes. She's going out shortly,  I'll stick the tree outside with a free sign on it... problem solved


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## Just for fun (Dec 7, 2021)

It's a conspiracy I tell ya....  I have thrown away so many strings of lights, because I couldn't get them working.

Tim


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## woodchucker (Dec 7, 2021)

This is a non-contact voltage tester. The whole tree is positive, the metal in the tree gets the flux current.
see video... even branches that contain no lights.  So that tool won't work Doug... it will work on a string. not on a metal tree with an integral light set.  Also these are not a normal string.
	

		
			
		

		
	



BTW my dog's barking at the garbage men.. Good dog.
View attachment 20211207_125449.mp4


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## mmcmdl (Dec 7, 2021)

Well , alls I can say is .....................................if my VFD hookup goes as well as these Christmas lights conundrum , you're all in for some huge laughs in the future .


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## woodchucker (Dec 7, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> Well , alls I can say is .....................................if my VFD hookup goes as well as these Christmas lights conundrum , you're all in for some huge laughs in the future .


it's not july 4th yet.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 9, 2021)

Wow , just got in from the neighborhood nursery . 6 ft. balled Blue Spruce is going for $380 .


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## woodchucker (Dec 9, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> Wow , just got in from the neighborhood nursery . 6 ft. balled Blue Spruce is going for $380 .


That's insane.
I live near a lot of tree farms... you cut  your own.


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## macardoso (Dec 9, 2021)

woodchucker said:


> as the title says.. I feel beaten... I've had an area of the tree (fake) that doesn't light. I have replaced every bulb in the string, and still could not get it to light, now I have another section of the tree, that was lit last year, and is not lit. I figured it has to be one bulb that's loose, but I can't find it. about 60-70 bulbs on the top... I have a few bulbs from the bottom that light, so they should help locate the dead bulb(s) up top... but the tree is winning. Barb wanted to go out and get a new tree, so we went out and she doesn't like anything we've seen.
> 
> So any of you have a secret ...  ... I wonder if my power sensor will pick it up... you know the type you hold near an outlet to see if its powered...
> looking for opinions while I go try that idea.


I've used those voltage detectors with moderate success on my tree, but it is not a sure thing.


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## Just for fun (Dec 9, 2021)

Wow $380 bucks... I don't think so! 

We paid $70 for this one.   And I thought that was a lot.   It's not the best photo but there it is in all its glory.  And I only threw away 2 strings of lights.   LOL


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## Cadillac STS (Dec 9, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> Wow $380 bucks... I don't think so!
> 
> We paid $70 for this one.   And I thought that was a lot.   It's not the best photo but there it is in all its glory.  And I only threw away 2 strings of lights.   LOL
> 
> View attachment 387940


What a great idea, put the lights on and decorate before cutting it down to be sure you like it!


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## mmcmdl (Dec 10, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> Wow $380 bucks... I don't think so!
> 
> We paid $70 for this one. And I thought that was a lot. It's not the best photo but there it is in all its glory. And I only threw away 2 strings of lights. LOL


Beautiful tree there . I settled on a Blue Spruce for $140 and have to pick it up now . Probably close to 300 lbs with the root ball . Another adventure in the making I'm sure !   What erks me , I have 45 acres of trees 368 miles north of me and can't get up there .


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