# Wells-Index 847 Milling Machine - Ownership Thread



## wachuko (Dec 22, 2021)

When I got my first milling machine 5 years ago, a Grizzly G0704, it was out the need to mill a brake caliper so I could mount a different wheel on my motorcycle...  Well, not really out of the need to modify the caliper... I could have taken the caliper to a machine shop and had it modified for a heck of a lot less than what I spent on the milling machine.

The truth is that I always wanted a milling machine and a lathe... some background history, my father grew up in Lorain, Ohio.  After getting out of the Marines he went to work in a machine shop... after a few years he moved to Puerto Rico and then went on to start his own business making ornamental blocks.  He made all his molds.  These are concrete ornamental blocks that were made using molds but everything to make the block was done by hand.  He used his skills as a machinist to make the molds, and any machine he needed for that process.  Later on he added a hardware store and construction materials to the business... He met my mom when I was 1-2 years old... married and they had 7 children... so I am the eldest of 8.

Even if I was not his biological son, he raised me just like it and I was actually the one that was closest to him..funny how that is.  In trips we made to Ohio to visit family we would stop by the machine shop where he used to work, just to shoot the breeze with the owner... Seeing all those machines always picked my interest, but at the time, not enough to learn anything...  My dad never stopped creating/inventing stuff... That was part of the reason I became an engineer... that and the fact that I can't see blood, or I would have tried going to medical school... 

Fast forward... both my parents are gone... I get to meet my biological father, guess what?  He was a machinist... retired from it.

I always liked taking things apart and, sometimes, even putting them back together...

Working in my cars, and motorcycles... and having friends asking favors to help them build something...  got me hooked on this hobby.   I thought that the G0704 would be enough for what I was planning to do when I retire in 4-5 years...  Boy was I wrong...

I am now the owner of a 1989 Wells-Index 847 standard head milling machine with a 10"x48" table! 

And I should be picking up a 14"x40" used Grizzly lathe later this week.  Thank you to all that contributed to this thread - Feedback on selecting a milling machine - where I needed help deciding on which machine to go for...

When my friends ask me if I have gone nuts and why do I need such huge machines, I just text them back with this:




I have no plan to make this produce any kind of revenue... There is no reason/justification for this madness, this is just my way to relax and plan how I will spend my time during retirement...  We recently go a smaller house that we plan to move there in 4-5 years... Three-car garage and the single bay will have these machines... Hopefully I can build a small workshop/detached-garage in the back and move the car projects and motorcycles there... so my wife can finally, for the first time since we got married, have a place to park her car inside the garage...

To tell you that I feel like a child in Christmas, is an understatement... very excited and daydreaming of learning and using these machines.

Sorry for the rambling... had to share... pretty excited as you can all tell by now...

Found the milling machine searching Facebook Marketplace and Craigslist.  Bought it from a machine shop that had just moved to a larger facility and was also in the process of switching out some of the manual machines for CNC.  They needed the space and $$ for that.

Photos when I went to look at it:
























Table has seen its share of mishaps... but nothing that I can see interfering with normal use...





Video of one of the guys at shop, showing me the machine running.






Will continue in a little bit... will be right back.


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## Janderso (Dec 22, 2021)

That's the real deal my friend.
I would be proud to own an Index -Made in USA and still open for business.
You suck a bit here.


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## wachuko (Dec 22, 2021)

I just got the serial number search results...




*Wells-Index 847 Vertical Milling Machine with Power Cross Feeds

Equipped With: *
Standard Head, Power Cross Feeds, Bijur One-Shot Lube, Knee Handle, 3HP Motor
*Electrics:*
208-230/460 Volt 3-Phase
*Manufacturer:* Wells-Index *Model:* 847 *Serial Number:* 22662
*Main Unit Approx Weight:* 3020 lbs
*Main Unit Dimensions (in inches):* Length: 60.00"  Width: 63.00"  Height: 81.00"
*Specs:
Table Size: *10" x 48"
*Travels (X/Y/Knee/Quill): *28"/17"/16"/5.25"
*Spindle Speeds: *50-4200 RPM
*Spindle Taper: *R8
*Motor HP: 3*


Downloaded Owners Manual
These are the things I have found needing so far:

Pending

Cleaning... lots of cleaning needed.  In progress.
Shaft on Z axis seems to be bent.  Need to order a replacement
Lowering quill takes more effort than normal.  Need to take apart that area to inspect what is causing the issue.
Pending install of Z-axis stops
Order and install an updated DRO setup.  Mine has no functions.  Wonder if I can reuse the scales and avoid having to install new ones...

Done

First priority is to decide on what VFD to buy.  I was made aware that a static converter is less expensive, but reading on those, they could heat up the motor, power comes down... I do not mind spending a little bit more on a VFD if that works better than a static unit... Just need to figure out which one.  If I do decide to try the static converter, @matthewsx mentioned having good experience with those from North America Phase Converters *- DONE! *
Add a remote control box for VFD *- DONE! *
Clean DRO display box.  Apply labels for X and Y. Relocate bracket/arm. *- DONE! *
Repair oil lines - Oil system completely overhauled *- DONE! *
Power draw bar.  Being tall must have been a requirement for working in a machine shop.  I need something to avoid having to use a ladder to get to the drawbar!! I have seen different setups.  Some cool designs using a butterfly air impact wrench.  I am exaggerating of course... have not even tried to reach the drawbar... *- DONE! *
Replace all metal emblems/badges...  You can see the one for the model and serial number... all gone... - Was only able to get a new serial plate.  The rest of the badges will remain as is. *- DONE! *
There is one knob for the Y axis lock that is not original... I think... need to check photos of other machines - New knobs and handwheel ordered, received, and installed *- DONE! *
Z-axis servo motor... Lazy?  Yeah... If I can find a motor to drive the knee, without breaking the bank, that would be great. *- DONE! *
Replace bearing in pulley assembly *- DONE! *
Replace locking nut, R8 guide pin in quill - *- DONE! *
Cover for rear of column *- DONE! *
Get R8 collect set *- DONE! *
Get keyless drill chuck - got a PM unit *- DONE!*


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## mmcmdl (Dec 22, 2021)

wachuko said:


> Hopefully I can build a small workshop/detached-garage in the back and move the car projects and motorcycles there... so my wife can finally, for the first time since we got married, have a place to park her car inside the garage...


????????????????????????????? Say it isn't so !   

Good news on the machines , enjoy them .


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## wachuko (Dec 22, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> ????????????????????????????? Say it isn't so !


Yeah, I know... she does not have high hopes on being able to do so in this garage either ... but I promised she would be able to do so once the shop is built... That is the plan at least...


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## mmcmdl (Dec 22, 2021)

wachuko said:


> That is the plan at least...


Hopefully , she can drive this .   









						Little Tikes Cozy Coupe
					

Read reviews and buy Little Tikes Cozy Coupe at Target. Choose from contactless Same Day Delivery, Drive Up and more.




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## Firstram (Dec 22, 2021)

I like how quickly you changed your purchase plans and got the mill home! I'm sure the lathe move will go just as smoothly.


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## Steve-F (Dec 22, 2021)

wachuko said:


> When I got my first milling machine 5 years ago, a Grizzly G0704, it was out the need to mill a brake caliper so I could mount a different wheel on my motorcycle...  Well, not really out of the need to modify the caliper... I could have taken the caliper to a machine shop and had it modified for a heck of a lot less than what I spent on the milling machine.
> 
> The truth is that I always wanted a milling machine and a lathe... some background history, my father grew up in Lorain, Ohio.  After getting out of the Marines he went to work in a machine shop... after a few years he moved to Puerto Rico and then went on to start his own business making ornamental blocks.  He made all his molds.  These are concrete ornamental blocks that were made using molds but everything to make the block was done by hand.  He used his skills as a machinist to make the molds, and any machine he needed for that process.  Later on he added a hardware store and construction materials to the business... He met my mom when I was 1-2 years old... married and they had 7 children... so I am the eldest of 8.
> 
> ...


Congratulations Jaime!! So cool!!!    P.S. I want one too


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## Beckerkumm (Dec 22, 2021)

Trust me, as you go farther down the slippery slope, even these machines won't seem large anymore.  i'm an accountant with about 50 old machines, metal and wood and every time I get the machines all running the way I want, I get the bug.   Tracking a CVA Toolroom lathe as we speak as the Smart Brown is finished with what I can do.  Enjoy the journey.  Dave


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## wachuko (Dec 22, 2021)

Thank you for the great comments.

A few more photos...

Loading...






I bought new straps... was not taking any chances.  I did not turn the head for the trip since I had left all my tools in the house in Orlando... Had to make a run to Lowes to get a 15/16" wrench after I got home..




Once home... it was 26 miles to get home... took it slow and kept looking back to make sure it was still standing...




The drop deck trailer is the best thing that was suggested (after the suggestion of getting a pallet jack)... made everything sooooo easy.




Inside the house.






One of the oil lines needs replacing.  I will replace them all as those all have to be brittle after all these years of use...




Lots of cleaning needed.




Model and serial number badge... all gone...


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## wachuko (Dec 22, 2021)

These are the things I have found needing so far:


First priority is to decide on what VFD to buy.  I was made aware that a static converter is less expensive, but reading on those, they could heat up the motor, power comes down... I do not mind spending a little bit more on a VFD if that works better than a static unit... Just need to figure out which one.  If I do decide to try the static converter, @matthewsx mentioned having good experience with those from North America Phase Converters
Repair oil lines
Clean and check everything
Power draw bar.  Being tall must have been a requirement for working in a machine shop .  I need something to avoid having to use a ladder to get to the drawbar!! I have seen different setups.  Some cool designs using a butterfly air impact wrench.  I am exaggerating of course... have not even tried to reach the drawbar...
Replace all metal emblems/badges...  You can see the one for the model and serial number... all gone...
There is one knob for the Y axis lock that is not original... I think... need to check photos of other machines
Z-axis servo motor... Lazy?  Yeah... If I can find a motor to drive the knee, without breaking the bank, that would be great.
Downloaded Owners Manual


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## Steve-F (Dec 22, 2021)

Being around 5'5"  power draw bars rock!!!


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## wachuko (Dec 22, 2021)

Steve-F said:


> Being around 5'5"  power draw bars rock!!!


I used to be 5'7"... but shrinking... down to 5'6"  as of a few minutes ago


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## jpackard56 (Dec 22, 2021)

Good stuff ! My Wells actually was delivered near Sandusky, Ohio not far from where your step-dad worked if he was in Lorain, when new in 1951
Watch that garage promise...I'm at 45 years same woman, too many cars, trucks, tractors, machines and stuff in shops, garages, barns etc. and the car she drives still outside ! 
I do go out and clean it off, warm it up and turn on the butt warmer anytime she feels the need to go somewhere and maybe I might live long enough to get her an attached garage, been clearing the site for it since retired but with the way lumber etc. has gone up...
Jim


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## Beckerkumm (Dec 22, 2021)

I like my Maxi Torque drawbar.  You can buy them direct and the guy is helpful, as are the H and W people I bought from.  Price is pretty much the same.  Kurt are no longer made in US but I believe the Maxi torque still are if that matters to you.  I also run a small silent compressor just to blow chips and power the drawbar so the big Quincy doesn't need to drain amps for the little amount of air needed.  Dave


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## wachuko (Dec 22, 2021)

Beckerkumm said:


> I like my Maxi Torque drawbar.  You can buy them direct and the guy is helpful, as are the H and W people I bought from.  Price is pretty much the same.  Kurt are no longer made in US but I believe the Maxi torque still are if that matters to you.  I also run a small silent compressor just to blow chips and power the drawbar so the big Quincy doesn't need to drain amps for the little amount of air needed.  Dave


It matters... I dropped them a message to validate what model I should be getting.

Mind sharing what quiet air compressor you are using?


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## Beckerkumm (Dec 22, 2021)

I watch for used Jun Air oil lubed dental compressors.  I understand California Air makes some decent and fairly quiet compressors  but if I find a Jun Air under $600 I prefer those.  New they are closer to 2K.  Getting harder to find and I shouldn't make it worse but they are very well made. There are two types and the oil filled ones with the Euro pump are the ones I like.  The wobble type pump is oilesss and I use that type for a vacuum pump but it is much louder as most oiless are.  Dave


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## wachuko (Dec 22, 2021)

Beckerkumm said:


> I watch for used Jun Air oil lubed dental compressors.  I understand California Air makes some decent and fairly quiet compressors  but if I find a Jun Air under $600 I prefer those.  New they are closer to 2K.  Getting harder to find and I shouldn't make it worse but they are very well made. There are two types and the oil filled ones with the Euro pump are the ones I like.  The wobble type pump is oilesss and I use that type for a vacuum pump but it is much louder as most oiless are.  Dave


I was looking at a California Air unit... but not for this year or the next... I am over any made up budget that I can come up with for this year or next year...  Did not know about Jun Air will look at those as well (Edit: Did a quick search... those Jun Air are even more expensive than the California Air units, yikes! )

I like the idea of using a smaller one just for the mill and lathe... to blow out chips and power the drawbar... I will copy that approach.

Let me see what I find used locally.  Thanks again.


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## Steve-F (Dec 22, 2021)

Just don't get an oil less, they are sooo noisy!! I got a craftsman of Craigslist  with a 220 volt motor and a oil filled twin pump and love how quite and simple it is...$125 too


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## wachuko (Dec 22, 2021)

Steve-F said:


> Just don't get an oil less, they are sooo noisy!! I got a craftsman of Craigslist  with a 220 volt motor and a oil filled twin pump and love how quite and simple it is...$125 too


I obviously missed that detail... I thought all super quiet (69 db or less) units were oil less.  At least the few I have seen new.

Let me search on that...


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## wachuko (Dec 30, 2021)

Looking to power up my machine.  I have 240 Volt single phase at home.  And need to run the 3HP 3-Phase motor in the milling machine. 

So I should be able to use this VFD to power my machine?












						VFD, 3hp, 230V, Single Phase Input, IP20, Medium D
					

VFD, 3hp, 230V, Single Phase Input, IP20, Medium Duty, Speed Potentiometer, Easy to Program, Compact, 150% Overload, V/F Control, Auto-Torque Boost or Sensorless Vector, 3 Phase Output




					www.wolfautomation.com


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## mksj (Dec 30, 2021)

Yes if you do not need to use an external braking resistor for quicker stopping, the L510 does not support that. You need to directly wire the motor to the VFD motor connections, no switches or contactors.


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## wachuko (Dec 30, 2021)

mksj said:


> Yes if you do not need to use an external braking resistor for quicker stopping, the L510 does not support that. You need to directly wire the motor to the VFD motor connections, no switches or contactors.



I looked at that one since it seems to be one used by a lot of folks.  Do you know of another brand/model that would be a better alternative?  Let me look for other brands to see if I find one with that option.

Reading on that as well to learn… 









						Braking Methods of Induction Motor in VFD
					

As you know, we can stop an induction motor by plugging or regenerative braking. What I'd like to know is that when controlling induction motor with VFD, which braking way VFD uses? It seems to me ...




					electronics.stackexchange.com
				




So it needs to be directly wired to the motor.  I lose the cool pull down/up switch.  Good to know.


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## wachuko (Dec 30, 2021)

Also watching these series of videos....



			https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDlWKv7KIIr_Znhfg8obxwcduFee5Ub5z


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## mksj (Dec 30, 2021)

The Teco L510 is a decent VFD, easy to install. It has some degree of braking, but it is limited to the size of the internal braking resistor. Most VFD's with the internal braking circuitry limit the rate of braking based on the maximum buss voltage permitted, so even if you ask for 1 second braking you may only get 3 second braking in practice. On a mill it is generally less of an issue, except if you need fast stopping for say power tapping, but otherwise I usually use a 3 second acceleration/deceleration time. This should be achievable with the L510. Many people also use the WWJ200-022SF but it is out of stock at most distributors. Teco does make an E510 which is a bit more full featured and on can use an external braking resistor. I believe it has a removable front panel, and with an optional extension cable it could be mounted on the head of the lathe (check with Wolf Automation), there is also the Automation Direct GS21 which I would recommend over the L510, but is showing back ordered (you might call to see when they might be back in stock and it the front panel can be relocated).

https://www.wolfautomation.com/ac-drive-3hp-10-5a-ct-vt-230vac-1-3-phase-f2-1/


			https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/drives_-a-_soft_starters/ac_variable_frequency_drives_(vfd)/general_purpose/gs21-23p0
		

Remote Keypad cable: https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/cables/drives/gs-cbl2-3l

I can provide you with recommended programming parameters, etc. when you get ready to do the install, just PM me.


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## wachuko (Dec 30, 2021)

mksj said:


> The Teco L510 is a decent VFD, easy to install. It has some degree of braking, but it is limited to the size of the internal braking resistor. Most VFD's with the internal braking circuitry limit the rate of braking based on the maximum buss voltage permitted, so even if you ask for 1 second braking you may only get 3 second braking in practice. On a mill it is generally less of an issue, except if you need fast stopping for say power tapping, but otherwise I usually use a 3 second acceleration/deceleration time. This should be achievable with the L510. Many people also use the WWJ200-022SF but it is out of stock at most distributors. Teco does make an E510 which is a bit more full featured and on can use an external braking resistor. I believe it has a removable front panel, and with an optional extension cable it could be mounted on the head of the lathe (check with Wolf Automation), there is also the Automation Direct GS21 which I would recommend over the L510, but is showing back ordered (you might call to see when they might be back in stock and it the front panel can be relocated).
> 
> https://www.wolfautomation.com/ac-drive-3hp-10-5a-ct-vt-230vac-1-3-phase-f2-1/
> 
> ...



Excellent!  Thank you.  I will give them a call when they are back in January, and find out when they expect those other options to be in stock.


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## woodchucker (Dec 30, 2021)

wachuko said:


> Yeah, I know... she does not have high hopes on being able to do so in this garage either ... but I promised she would be able to do so once the shop is built... That is the plan at least...


nice story.

If you build a shop, include a bathroom, and slop sink..
It'll keep the house clean.. When your hands are all greasy you won't have to go to the house to cleanup.
if you have a rush call....  you know, after having bad fish, or whatever.
I wish I had a slop sink down here in the basement. I use cleaner, and wipe with a paper towel,  but it's ugly.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 30, 2021)

wachuko said:


> Looking to power up my machine.  I have 240 Volt single phase at home.  And need to run the 3HP 3-Phase motor in the milling machine.
> 
> So I should be able to use this VFD to power my machine?
> 
> ...



The Teco VFDs are popular but when I talked to Wolf for a VFD for my mill they recommended a Lenze or Fuji VFD over the Teco. Something technical about how they work. They say they often suggest the Teco for lathes but mills apparently are fussier and can benefit from spending a little more for a better quality VFD.

I've been happy with the Fuji I bought, but do kind of regret not stepping up and buying the Lenze which apparently is an easier VFD to set up. I do not like electrical work so can use all the help I can get.


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## wachuko (Jan 1, 2022)

Went to https://machinerypartsdepot.com/bijur-lubrication-products/ and got the following to start repairing the Bijur oiling system:

(10) B1061 - Compression Sleeve for 5/32" Metal Tubing - Do not know if I need any for metal tubing, got a few just in case...
(30) B8272 - Compression Sleeve For 5/32" Plastic Tubing - Do not know how many I need... figured 30 should be enough...
(1) S109 - Bijur One Shot Filter Kit For Models L5H, L5P and L19P - Might as well clean the tank and change all the filters
(1) 9452K6 - Bijur Tank O-Ring - since I am opening the tank for cleaning.
(1) B8216 - One Shot Lube Tank Gasket - since I am opening the tank for cleaning.

And from here https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/15-04875.php I ordered 20' of clear 5/32" OD clear oil injection tubing... I wanted clear tubing to better troubleshoot flow... Machinery Parts Depot only had black tubing...

(20) Feet of Natural Clear Oil Injection Tubing 5/32" OD


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## wachuko (Jan 3, 2022)

mksj said:


> Yes if you do not need to use an external braking resistor for quicker stopping, the L510 does not support that. You need to directly wire the motor to the VFD motor connections, no switches or contactors.


@mksj - both items should be back in stock by Jan 10

DURApulse GS20 series AC general purpose drive, 230 VAC, 3hp with 1-phase input - GS21-23P0 - $246.00
DURApulse keypad mounting cable, 9.8ft/3m cable length -  GS-CBL2-3L - $21.50

Anything else that is needed?


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## wachuko (Jan 3, 2022)

Placing this here for a future project...  Pedal Operated Brake


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## wachuko (Jan 5, 2022)

Order placed for:

DURApulse GS20 series AC general purpose drive, 230 VAC, 3hp with 1-phase input - GS21-23P0 - $246.00 (Backordered but able to place the order)
DURApulse keypad mounting cable, 9.8ft/3m cable length - GS-CBL2-3L - $21.50 (back in stock)

I asked that they ship both at the same time... so maybe here towards the end of next week or the week following that...


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## wachuko (Jan 7, 2022)

On my way to pick up the gantry crane to finally get this beast off the old pallet and on the new one... 

Leveling pads ordered!  

And all the parts to refresh the one pump oiling system arrived.  Will tackle this over the weekend.


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## wachuko (Jan 8, 2022)

Got it done... My wife helped me with the assembly of the gantry crane and raising it in place.  No way that I could have done this by myself...

I will be returning the pallets and all the lumber from the seller today (Saturday)

Here I was installing the last few bits of the crane...




And the milling machine now on its new pallet... temporary of course. 




Raised the head back again.  And now moved out of the way... can't wait to have it in its final place...


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## wachuko (Jan 8, 2022)

There is my plan… God’s plan… and then there is what my wife planned for the day…

I had planned to spend the day cleaning the machine and changing oil lines…. This is as far as I got…



Only cleaned that side!!  Man!!

Anyway… done for the day…


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## davidpbest (Jan 9, 2022)

Ok.


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## wachuko (Jan 9, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> Ok.


Hahahahhaha you edited the post!!

And you had a wonderful and lovey dinner with your beautiful daughter.  Those moments are Priceless!! Thank you for sharing!!


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## wachuko (Jan 9, 2022)

I am looking at the things I need to do to the mill... Looking at a power feed for the knee... I was planning on ordering one from Precision Matthews... I do not believe that it will fit... different setup in this one...

Back of the handle




Handle removed




Dial removed...




Then looking at stuff that is missing...

Bottom cover for one of the power feeds is missing.  This covers the bottom gears on the Servo.





One has it...




And I am missing the handwheel here... 





And missing a couple of handle studs... those looked to have been replaced with a thread rod.  The knobs are there, so maybe that can wait...

I will call the Wells-Index company tomorrow to check on pricing of all those... 

In the meantime, continued to clean the machine...  yeah, that is another one of the oil lines that need replacing.  I will replace them all...









Still need to clean the other side...


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## Steve-F (Jan 9, 2022)

What a beast that one is!! Can you say RIDGID!!


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## wachuko (Jan 9, 2022)

Steve-F said:


> What a beast that one is!! Can you say RIDGID!!


Can’t wait to use it!!  

Going motorcycle riding next week… VFD should here by the time I get back on the 16… can’t wait!!


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## davidpbest (Jan 9, 2022)

You might find this video useful in selecting a power feeder for your knee:






I have the Align feeders on my mill and love them. A Servo version is considerably more expensive. My install log is *here* (they have universal mounts that fit most Bridgeport clones).


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## wachuko (Jan 9, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> You might find this video useful in selecting a power feeder for your knee:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


David,

Thank you.  I had watched that video.  I was ready to buy the Align kit until I had a closer look at my knee lift mechanism… It is different from the Bridgeport and B-clones.  

That is why I shared the photos.  So I will need to see if there is a kit with the correct mount for mine.   I would like to avoid the expense of a Servo unit…that is money that could go to the power drawbar that I want.


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## wachuko (Jan 9, 2022)

The folks at https://machinerypartsdepot.com/ had the bottom cover for the Servo for only 3.75!  Ordered the missing one and a spare.

I also saw that the tank for the oiler was back in stock…mine is fine, but I wanted a spare, so got one of those as well…




I have to remember to take the gallon of oil, that I have here in Orlando , with me to Ocala…

I looked at the power feeds they have but did not see anything with a Wells-Index application…


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## Janderso (Jan 9, 2022)

wachuko said:


> I just got the serial number search results...
> 
> View attachment 389398


That is the coolest thing I’ve seen all day!


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## davidpbest (Jan 9, 2022)

wachuko said:


> David,
> 
> Thank you.  I had watched that video.  I was ready to buy the Align kit until I had a closer look at my knee lift mechanism… It is different from the Bridgeport and B-clones.
> 
> That is why I shared the photos.  So I will need to see if there is a kit with the correct mount for mine.   I would like to avoid the expense of a Servo unit…that is money that could go to the power drawbar that I want.


Sorry, I didn't look closely enough at the photos to begin with - yea, that is different than a Bridgeport.  I'm sure Wells will have some ideas but my guess is they'll push you to a Servo unit.  Keep us posted.  Still jealous that you have the 847.


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## wachuko (Jan 10, 2022)

Making a list... Most of parts I just want to change for cosmetic reasons...

From this diagram (all for cosmetic reasons) :

(1) 880-005-003 - 10-32x1/4 Soc Set Screw
(1) 100-003-000 - Cartridge Bearing Lock Nut - #8 in the diagram
(4) 880-000-048 - 1/4x20x3/4 Soc Hd Cap Screw - #2 in the diagram
(1) 100-003-004 - Left Belt Guard - #25 in the diagram
(4) 880-076-026 - Knurled 1/4-20x3/8 Screw - #24 in the diagram
(1) 100-003-003 - Right Belt Guard - #38 in the diagram
(1) 100-004-525 - Name Plate - #34 in the diagram
(4) 880-110-018 - #4x5/15 Drive Screw - #35 in the diagram










And from this diagram (this is the handwheel that is missing from my machine):

(1) 100-004-545 - Quill Feed Handwheel - #30 in the diagram
(1) 880-052-001 - Ball Plunger - #31 in the diagram




Then I need:

(1) Knee power feed - still searching for correct part number
(1) Make cover for rear of head support.  Right now there is no cover... interesting as I have seen covers in a few other machines.  Cool thing is that I found another/spare drawbar inside when I looked...




(1) Install 4 outlet 110v box in the back of the machine to plug DRO and Power Feeds... to minimize the amount of wires going to the wall...

I do not have a parts diagram with part numbers for the rest of the machine.  Edit: Found it in the document I had...  




I need the following:
(1) 898-016-001 Saddle Clamp Lever Knob and (1) 100-019-061 Rod... it was replaced with a bolt... Take a look... it works, but since I am ordering first the missing handwheel, might as well order this knob while I am at it.




(2) Name plates that go in the column - I do not have the part numbers for these... cosmetic of course...
(1) Model and Serial number plate - mine is all gone... can't see squat except for the stamped model and serial number.

This is what mine look like:







This is what it should look like:






(1) And last... a Maxi Torque Rite Air Power Draw Bar... I reached out to them and got the document with the information I need to provide to get the correct one for my machine.  First I want to install the VFD and have the machine running before ordering the power draw bar...


----------



## wachuko (Jan 10, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> …Still jealous that you have the 847.



Well…you gave me the push to buy it! So it was your fault!


----------



## wachuko (Jan 10, 2022)

Well, @davidpbest , you called it... it ended up being a Servo unit... Could not find anything else that had the mounting kit for the Wells-Index...

Order placed with Machine Tool Products (https://www.machinetoolproducts.com/) for a:

Servo Products - Servo 140 Z Axis Knee Power Feed for Wells Index 847 - M-0980-140 (QNMTP27610)

I continue to contribute to the debt index ... goodness...building my shop looks further and further away...

And just got off the phone with the folks at Wells-Index... they are giving me a quote on the parts... For now I only want to order the quill feed handwheel, the Saddle Clamp Lever Knob with its rod, and the serial/model plate.  But I want pricing on the rest to determine when I order that...


----------



## wachuko (Jan 10, 2022)

Folks at Wells-Index are great! Got a call and the pricing... Some parts are no longer available, but those were not critical... Will be ordering the rest that is available...


----------



## wachuko (Jan 17, 2022)

Parts arrived




Much better!!




And these arrived as well.. new covers for the bottom gear on the Servo power feeds.  Some parts for the oiling system as well...





But, unfortunately, new tank arrived with damage... 




Email sent to H&W Machine Repair and Rebuilding Inc. (https://machinerypartsdepot.com/) to get a replacement.


----------



## wachuko (Jan 17, 2022)

Modified a gland wrench to fit the cartridge bearing locknut...







And also polished the outer rim of the handwheel... to match the others.


----------



## wachuko (Jan 19, 2022)

Replacement tank arrived in perfect condition... woohooo!


----------



## wachuko (Jan 19, 2022)

wachuko said:


> @mksj - both items should be back in stock by Jan 10
> 
> DURApulse GS20 series AC general purpose drive, 230 VAC, 3hp with 1-phase input - GS21-23P0 - $246.00
> DURApulse keypad mounting cable, 9.8ft/3m cable length -  GS-CBL2-3L - $21.50
> ...



Well... got an email that the VFD is still in backorder... now the date was pushed out to Feb 2... 

Very tempted to cancel the order and go with something that is in stock....


----------



## wachuko (Jan 20, 2022)

Talking to the folks that sell the Maxi Torque Rite Power Draw Bar... they are telling me that they do not have a drawbar for the Wells-Index...

I am reaching out to Wells-Index to find out if they have that for sale... a drawbar that is compatible with the Maxi Torque...


----------



## wachuko (Jan 20, 2022)

R-8 Drawbar for Power Drawbar System ordered directly from Wells-Index...   US$157.50 +shipping

Now I can order the Maxi Torque Rite...


----------



## davidpbest (Jan 20, 2022)

Be careful who you deal with for the Maxi-Torque Rite.  There are lots of dealers, many of whom are clueless.  I recommend you talk with these people:   https://www.maxitorqueritedrawbar.com/


----------



## wachuko (Jan 20, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> Be careful who you deal with for the Maxi-Torque Rite.  There are lots of dealers, many of whom are clueless.  I recommend you talk with these people:   https://www.maxitorqueritedrawbar.com/
> 
> View attachment 393079


David,  yes.  Those are the folks I have been exchanging emails with... and today I called them. 

I was told to get the system directly from Wells-Index.  I miss-understood and thought that they were only telling me to just get the drawbar, which I just ordered. 

Now I am thinking that they meant that I should buy the complete system from Wells-Index.  I do hope that is not the case... One, because I just order/paid for the drawbar from Wells-Index... and Two, because Wells-Index wants $1,122.50 (plus shipping) for the power drawbar setup....


----------



## wachuko (Jan 20, 2022)

Order placed for the Maxi-Torque Rite from the folks David ( @davidpbest ) recommended...  The system without the drawbar...

PART#:  TR100-WOB, MAXI TORQUE UNIT (with no drawbar), IN STOCK SUBJECT TO PRIOR SALE, $511.95 EACH

Let's hope the install goes easy...  I am concern with the proximity of the brake lever... 

That inner locking nut is the one I recently received.  I want to change it just for cosmetics... obviously who ever went in there did not use the correct tool to remove it... 

I also want to remove the larger cover just to recondition it and give it a fresh coat of paint...


----------



## wachuko (Jan 22, 2022)

wachuko said:


> Well... got an email that the VFD is still in backorder... now the date was pushed out to Feb 2...
> 
> Very tempted to cancel the order and go with something that is in stock....



Another email with a new date... I have cancelled that order. 

I went ahead and ordered the Teco Westinghouse - L510-203-H1-U from Marshall Wolf Automation...


----------



## Provincial (Jan 22, 2022)

I'm new here.  I live near Salem, Oregon and have a Wells-Index 847 mill.  I have had this machine for about three years, and installed a generic Chinese digital readout about a year after I acquired it.  It is in pretty good shape for its age, and has little wear on the ways.  The only bad point is a lot of wear on the X-axis lead screw and nut.  At some point I will need to fix this, but for now I don't put much stress on them and the readout means I don't have to rely on the dials to position that axis.

My son is learning to use my machine tools (2 Atlas lathes, an Atlas/Clausing 6300 lathe, and a Ramco (Bridgeport clone) mill) and is very impressed with the 847.  

I got it from a young man who I believe tried to push it doing heaver work that it was designed for.  It came with a 1-1/4" end mill holder, and that had a 1-1/2" end mill installed.  There were steel shavings on the end mill!

It just saved me $2,300.00 by allowing me to remove 6 broken off bolts from a final drive from a small excavator.  They were stuck in there so badly that I barely could remove the remains of the threads after milling out the entire bolt as far as the minor diameter in the flange!


----------



## Just for fun (Jan 22, 2022)

Welcome to the site @Provincial  I'm totally new to machining but the Wells-Index 847 looks like a nice mill.   Nice to hear that your son has interest in machining.

I've been to Dallas, nice little town.

Tim


----------



## Provincial (Jan 23, 2022)

Thanks Tim!  I've been near Chelan, and to Twisp and Winthop.  Beautiful country!


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## wachuko (Jan 23, 2022)

Installed the hand wheel


----------



## wachuko (Jan 23, 2022)

Now to remove, clean, regrease the spindle… 

I want to check the condition of the bearings…


----------



## wachuko (Jan 23, 2022)

Okay, let's try this again...

Took the spindle out.  Everything looked fine and could not even hear the bearings.  Everything turning smooth.  This was a major relief.  Watching all those videos of folks having to rebuild these units was not something I was looking forward to.  Photo was from when I removed it... forgot to take a photo after cleaning... darn it!










A photo looking down the spindle housing... you can see the white plastic gear at the right end...




Side to side comparison of the cartridge bearing locknut I wanted to remove... I will try to redrill the holes and see if it can be saved.  Would be nice to keep it as a spare.  Was working fine, it just looked like shi**.




Mentioned that I installed the hand wheel..., also took the time to replace the bolt for the correct handle/knob that arrived.










Also installed the cover for the Servo power feed.   Now looking at these photos...I realize how much cleaning is left to do...


----------



## wachuko (Jan 24, 2022)

I also removed the motor, belts, etc.  Wanted to clean in there... it was all full of grease/oil... just nasty...

Here, take a look... before:




And after...












I will remove all this again for further cleaning and repainting it... but the task at hand was to just inspect everything and determine if the spindle bearings were in good condition.  Glad to see that they were... So everything got assembled back.




Then rotated the head back in place.  I took the tramming tool with me, but did not have a chance to use it... need to do that as well.

I still need to redo the oiling system... that will be next...

Took the cheap vise from the house in Orlando... eventually I want to get a Kurt DX6 vise... but this will do for now.


----------



## wachuko (Jan 24, 2022)

The only thing that I was not able to service were the bearing on the pulleys... I could not get this plate to come out... and I did not spend much time trying to do so... I was pressed for time and figured that I would tackle this later.  I need to remove the burs on the side that is not allowing that plate to slide out...




And yes, I cleaned all those metal shavings... this was a "before" photo as I was removing the larger base...




I am not familiar with these machines, but to me, the bearings on this assembly were making more noise than normal.  So I want to replace those.  Will look at the parts diagram and order those today...




After assembly... new cartridge bearing locking nut installed and also installed the four missing bolts on the cartridge bearing retainer...




With drawbar...


----------



## wachuko (Jan 24, 2022)

Okay, so here are the parts I want to replace.  From this diagram, that would be 3, 4, and 21

(1) 880-067-004 - Wavey Washer. - it is fine, but since going in there, might as well replace for a new one
(1) 885-001-031 - Top Bearing
(1) 885-002-032 - Bottom Bearing




And from this diagram I would like to replace 169, 170, and 171

(2) - 100-002-975 - R8 Key - I really do not know how often these break/shear off... just want to have a couple of spares.
(1) 100-002-974 - R8 Ring - this is the bronze ring that retains the R8 key in place.  It is fine... figured I would get a spare one as well.
(1) 000-200-007 - Lower Bearing Retainer R8 - this one is fine, but during the life of this machine someone took a monkey wrench to it instead of just using the correct tool... purely cosmetic, but I want to replace it anyway... again, the one there is fine... Maybe once I find out the price of this one, I will think that those marks are fine .




And photos...




Here you can see the marks on that retainer nut...




And the brass ring that holds the R8 key from coming out...






R8 key


----------



## Steve-F (Jan 24, 2022)

It should purr like a kitten after that!!


----------



## wachuko (Jan 24, 2022)

Steve-F said:


> It should purr like a kitten after that!!


It should... at least, that is what I am hoping for.

Any noise would have come from those bearings in the pulley area.  The spindle assembly was dead quiet.

Email sent to Wells-Index asking for pricing on those parts.

Drawbar, for the power setup, should be here today.


----------



## Just for fun (Jan 24, 2022)

Nice work Wachuko!


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## woodchucker (Jan 24, 2022)

wachuko said:


> I also removed the motor, belts, etc.  Wanted to clean in there... it was all full of grease/oil... just nasty...
> 
> Here, take a look... before:
> 
> ...


two things, the bearing cap, drill 2 new holes, don't try fixing those old holes.. they are of no value
what's the plastic gear for in the top of the quill bore???? it does not look like it's fully engaging.
nice job so far.


----------



## wachuko (Jan 24, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> two things, the bearing cap, drill 2 new holes, don't try fixing those old holes.. they are of no value
> what's the plastic gear for in the top of the quill bore???? it does not look like it's fully engaging.
> nice job so far.



Got it.  Will drill two new holes.  Thank you.

Plastic gear -  That is the drive gear for the quill power downfeed... sacrificial drive gear... Not engaged as I was playing around during the assembly... Once I was done, it engages smoothly.


----------



## davidpbest (Jan 24, 2022)

Interesting.  I think the Wells-Index is a better idea.  This is the "sacrificial" quill power feed gear on a Bridgeport style J-head.  I've replaced mine once already:


----------



## wachuko (Jan 24, 2022)

Drawbar arrived from Wells-Index today... and I received  an UPS email letting me know that the Maxi Torque Rite is arriving tomorrow!!


----------



## wachuko (Jan 24, 2022)

SOB!!!  One of the bearings, the bottom one... US$104.25!!!!  They do not have the top bearing...

(1) 880-067-004 (056-004-476 old #) - Wavey Washer - Part #3 in diagram - $15.70
(1) 885-001-031 - Top Bearing - Part #4 in diagram - Not in stock
(1) 885-002-032 - Bottom Bearing - part #21 in diagram - $104.25 !!!!!!
(2) - 100-002-975 - R8 Key -  $12.95 each
(1) 100-002-974 - R8 Ring -  $21.25
(1) 000-200-007 - Lower Bearing Retainer R8 - $79.70


----------



## woodchucker (Jan 24, 2022)

wachuko said:


> SOB!!!  One of the bearings, the bottom one... US$104.25!!!!  They do not have the top bearing...
> 
> (1) 880-067-004 (056-004-476 old #) - Wavey Washer - $15.70
> (1) 885-001-031 - Top Bearing - Not in stock
> ...


you said they were quiet, why are you replacing them?  If you want, take them out clean them in solvent, repack them using a high quality grease, maybe a molybdenum disulfide grease and reuse. If you start using it and it's giving you problems then replace the bearings.

Looks like the only thing you really needed was the r8 key (maybe)


----------



## wachuko (Jan 24, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> you said they were quiet, why are you replacing them?  If you want, take them out clean them in solvent, repack them using a high quality grease, maybe a molybdenum disulfide grease and reuse. If you start using it and it's giving you problems then replace the bearings.
> 
> Looks like the only thing you really needed was the r8 key (maybe)



Sorry, I was not clear.  The ones that were dead quiet where the ones in the spindle... and glad those are in good condition... as the set is 600.00 to replace them.

The noisy ones are the ones in the step pulley... I added the diagram to the original post for clarity.


----------



## Doc1057 (Jan 24, 2022)

Measure those bearings, then get looking for a bearing supplier with a better price. I believe they're all standard sizes. I got several replacement bearings for my 847 from the auction site, and for a very reasonable price. These weren't the main spindle bearings, but were in the upper head. I did clean and repack a bunch that sounded fine. I used a good quality moly grease and was careful to get them spotlessly clean and not to overlube them. My spindle seems fine, so I'm leaving well enough alone there.
Mine has the 30 MMT spindle, BTW. It also has the variable speed head.


----------



## wachuko (Jan 24, 2022)

Doc1057 said:


> Measure those bearings, then get looking for a bearing supplier with a better price. I believe they're all standard sizes. I got several replacement bearings for my 847 from the auction site, and for a very reasonable price. These weren't the main spindle bearings, but were in the upper head. I did clean and repack a bunch that sounded fine. I used a good quality moly grease and was careful to get them spotlessly clean and not to overlube them. My spindle seems fine, so I'm leaving well enough alone there.
> Mine has the 30 MMT spindle, BTW. It also has the variable speed head.





woodchucker said:


> you said they were quiet, why are you replacing them?  If you want, take them out clean them in solvent, repack them using a high quality grease, maybe a molybdenum disulfide grease and reuse. If you start using it and it's giving you problems then replace the bearings.
> 
> Looks like the only thing you really needed was the r8 key (maybe)



At those prices... it is worth it to get them out, clean them and repack them as suggested.  I will have to remove them anyway to see if I can get replacements from a different source if cleaning and repacking is not enough.

I had some help Sunday... could have not done everything by myself.  But just to deal with that cover attached to the pulley, that I can do on my own.  I will remove next time I have a break... maybe in two weeks.


----------



## wachuko (Jan 25, 2022)

Since I will not be replacing the pulley bearings for now... I placed an order for the grease that the pulley bearings use: Mobil Mobilux EP 2
Also the one used on a few other areas: Mobile Grease XHP 222

I did place the order from Wells-Index for the other parts:

(1) 880-067-004 Wavy Washer (056-004-476 old #)
(2) 100-002-975 R-8 Key 
(1) 100-002-974 R-8 Ring 
(1) 000-200-007 Lower Bearing Retainer R-8 

On the VFD... I am not having good luck finding anything in stock... that last one I order I thought was in stock and got an email yesterday that it will take 5-6 weeks to arrive.  The only one I found that is in stock, is this one.

LS Electric LSLV0022M100




And I can't find reviews on it...


----------



## wachuko (Jan 25, 2022)

This arrived... woohooo!


----------



## Just for fun (Jan 25, 2022)

wachuko said:


> Since I will not be replacing the pulley bearings for now... I placed an order for the grease that the pulley bearings use: Mobil Mobilux EP 2
> Also the one used on a few other areas: Mobile Grease XHP 222
> 
> I did place the order from Wells-Index for the other parts:
> ...



Check with Precision Matthews, they had them in stock last time I checked.

Tim


----------



## davidpbest (Jan 25, 2022)

I agree. PM usually has the Hitachi VFDs.


----------



## mksj (Jan 26, 2022)

Wolf shows the E510 is in stock, would need to call on the L510. Assume it is a 3 Hp motor. I can put together some parameters for any of these depending on what you want to do.

Teco Westinghouse E510-203-H-U 3hp, 10.5A CT/VT,230VAC, Single and 3 Phase,








						VFD, 3hp, 10.5A CT/VT,230VAC, Single and 3 Phase,
					

VFD, 3hp, 10.5A CT/VT,230VAC, Single and 3 Phase, F2, 7.39x5.07x6", Med. Duty Compact, NEMA1/IP20




					www.wolfautomation.com
				




L510-203-H1-U TECO 3 HP 230V 1-Phase Input 10.5 Drive Amps Constant Torque








						L510-203-H1-U TECO 3 HP 230V 1-Phase Input 10.5 Drive Amps C
					





					shop.powerandcontrol.com
				




Yaskawa GA50UB012ABA 240 Volt Single Phase 12 Amp 3 HP Microdrive





						Yaskawa GA50UB012ABA GA500 Microdrive
					

Buy Yaskawa GA50UB012ABA 240 Volt Single Phase 12 Amp 3 HP Microdrive



					rspsupply.com
				











						GA50UB012ABA - 3 HP, 12 Amps, Normal Duty, 3 HP, 11 Amps, 240 VAC, Heavy Duty, Single-Phase, IP20/Protected Chassis
					

Yaskawa - GA500 AC Microdrive - GA50UB001ABA - 1/16 HP, 1.2 Amps, Normal Duty, .17 HP, 0.8 Amps, 240 VAC, Single-Phase, IP20/Protected Chassis



					control-concepts.myshopify.com


----------



## wachuko (Jan 26, 2022)

mksj said:


> Wolf shows the E510 is in stock, would need to call on the L510. Assume it is a 3 Hp motor. I can put together some parameters for any of these depending on what you want to do.
> 
> Teco Westinghouse E510-203-H-U 3hp, 10.5A CT/VT,230VAC, Single and 3 Phase,
> 
> ...


The L510 is the one I ordered from Wolf thinking it was in stock... It was when I got the email a few days later confirming the order and shipping time-frame that I was made aware of the 5-weeks shipping delay.

My mistake was using the filters and not paying attention to the green circles they place on those that are actually in stock.

The first one I ordered from another vendor, the DURApulse GS21-23P0 that you recommended, continues to show up as not available and with no real availability date.  So at least I have one on order with an actual delivery date.

Order is still in for the L510 from Wolf... I was just looking to see if I find something good sooner.  I will just wait... I can use the time to finish the cleaning, going over the oiling system, install the power drawbar, etc.


----------



## wachuko (Jan 28, 2022)

These arrived... The guide pin for the R8 collects definitely had some wear... I ordered two of those pins and only one arrived.  They are sending me the missing one next week.


----------



## wachuko (Jan 31, 2022)

Nothing is ever easy....  

I need to call Wells-Index today... they must have an adapter to make this work...

The bar they sent is longer... but also looking at the brake location and the Maxi Torque Rite,  it will just not fit over that plate... it interferes with the brake setup and the cartridge bearing locknut with the pulley shaft will not let it sit flat either...  hummm...
















Will report back after I talk to them...


----------



## woodchucker (Jan 31, 2022)

wachuko said:


> Nothing is ever easy....
> 
> I need to call Wells-Index today... they must have an adapter to make this work...
> 
> ...


I would think you don't need the brake if you have the tool. It's doing the work for you. I could be wrong, but that's what I think.


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## wachuko (Jan 31, 2022)

Brake, brake.... oh man, I need a break...


----------



## wachuko (Jan 31, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> I would think you don't need the brake if you have the tool. It's doing the work for you. I could be wrong, but that's what I think.



I thought about that... then about machining the drawbar to correct length... then about making a shim to go between the Maxi Torque-Rite and the base plate to compensate for the raise the cartridge bearing locknut with the pulley shaft 




But by then I was just too scare to tackle it all...   Yeah,  I am obviously missing an adapter...


----------



## woodchucker (Jan 31, 2022)

wachuko said:


> I thought about that... then about machining the drawbar to correct length... then about making a shim to go between the Maxi Torque-Rite and the base plate to compensate for the raise the cartridge bearing locknut with the pulley shaft
> 
> View attachment 394453
> 
> ...


Make the adapter to raise it. You can't go wrong right? It only costs you time and some parts.. Probably AL 6061. if it solves your problem you are gold. It will raise the piece over the inteferrence, and cover the height of the extra bar length. BTW I don't think the bar is engaged full time, only when activated, so you may need more height than you think..  But GETTER DONE.. nothing ventured, nothing gained.


----------



## wachuko (Jan 31, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> Make the adapter to raise it. You can't go wrong right? It only costs you time and some parts.. Probably AL 6061. if it solves your problem you are gold. It will raise the piece over the inteferrence, and cover the height of the extra bar length. BTW I don't think the bar is engaged full time, only when activated, so you may need more height than you think..  But GETTER DONE.. nothing ventured, nothing gained.



The bar needs to sit .05" bellow bearing cap... or, in my case, whatever adapter is there... 




I will wait to hear from Wells-Index on the cost of that adapter before I venture into making one...   But yeah, a big chunk of aluminum (AL 6061) machined to the right height and with the clearance for the brake and it should all work as required... 

Will report back later today...


----------



## woodchucker (Jan 31, 2022)

ok, you have way too much stickout then


----------



## Steve-F (Jan 31, 2022)

What woodchucker said....... and you still will need the brake too, I think they sent you the wrong draw bar


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## wachuko (Jan 31, 2022)

Steve-F said:


> What woodchucker said....... and you still will need the brake too, I think they sent you the wrong draw bar



The might have... it needs to be longer.  But how long, not sure??

I almost think they sent me the one for the variable speed head...




And looking at the mount they used on the variable speed head... I might be overthinking (like I always do) the solution... They just used plates with spacers...  I have some of that material... I don't even have to go out to buy anything...






Here I was thinking.. block of aluminum, some complex design, maybe having to figure out a program for the CNC machine (that is still not completely finished)....  Ha!  Two thick plates and some spacers and done!    Why?  Why?  Why do I always think about the most complex solution!!??


----------



## woodchucker (Jan 31, 2022)

wachuko said:


> The might have... it needs to be longer.  But how long, not sure??
> 
> I almost think they sent me the one for the variable speed head...
> 
> ...


well like everything else, most people go over board.

Like the million dollar consulting that was done because a company was underfilling boxes. The consultants came up with an exotic system and would stop the line every time a box was underweight, causing them to fall behind everyday. The employees decided to put a fan on the line and blow the boxes off the conveyor to prevent the line from shutting down. So a simple solution that could have been done earlier, but management felt it required millions to solve.

Just like our political system. (I Just had to, the devil made me do it).


----------



## Just for fun (Jan 31, 2022)

Not quite the same but your comment reminded me of this.


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## wachuko (Jan 31, 2022)

Got a response from Mark (General Manager at Wells-Index).... There is no kit as such... suggested the same approach I shared in the photos.  That is what they do when customers order the machines with powerbar setups...

Cool... let me start making those two plates and spacers.


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## davidpbest (Jan 31, 2022)

Keep the spindle brake - you'll want it if you ever use an ER collet chuck in the spindle and need to tighten the collet nut (just one example).

This is how mine is mounted.  Just make yourself a riser block.




Your drawbar is too long.  But be very precise when you shorten it on the end that goes into the R8 tooling.  You want the splined head of that drawbar precisely positioned vertically when the quill is fully elevated.  If you get it too short, it will not actuate properly - I've been there.

David


----------



## wachuko (Jan 31, 2022)

David,

Thank you.  I need to remember that part of making sure that the quill is fully elevated... before I modify the drawbar...


----------



## wachuko (Feb 11, 2022)

Got an email that the knee/Z-axis Servo has shipped! Should be here on the 15.  That is great news!

All I need now is the VFD... still waiting for delivery of that one...

I do have a question... What would be a good size vise for this machine??


----------



## Steve-F (Feb 11, 2022)

6" should be winner on your machine


----------



## davidpbest (Feb 11, 2022)

wachuko said:


> I do have a question... What would be a good size vise for this machine??


Kurt DX6.  A full line of jaws, and oversized jaws available from https://monsterjaws.com/


----------



## wachuko (Feb 11, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> Kurt DX6.  A full line of jaws, and oversized jaws available from https://monsterjaws.com/
> 
> View attachment 395973





Steve-F said:


> 6" should be winner on your machine



Thank you.  I placed an order for a Kurt DX6 CrossOver Vise - DX6-SD 

Monster Jaws website bookmarked!!


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## wachuko (Feb 12, 2022)

I can't seem to be able to remove the steel plate so that I can get access to the bearings...

It is #9 in the diagram...   I have a new washer (#3)... new top nut assembly (#8 and #1)




How the heck to I get that part out???







After it is out I want to replace the bearings... then use some filler to fix all those dings/dents... sand and paint...

Video...


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## wachuko (Feb 12, 2022)

Watching this video... but this is only assembly.... and noticed he forgot the wavey washer... Anyway, so even that part is not easy to insert... so it is just not held in place by the four bolts...






So am guessing that I press out the shaft... then, from the opposite side,  I press out bearing-spacer-bearing and that steel plate with the four holes...  hummm

Of course my press is in the other house... doggone-it!


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## woodchucker (Feb 12, 2022)

wachuko said:


> I can't seem to be able to remove the steel plate so that I can get access to the bearings...
> 
> It is #9 in the diagram...   I have a new washer (#3)... new top nut assembly (#8 and #1)
> View attachment 396174
> ...


try a torch, just heat it up a little, don't melt the aluminum casting.   I'll bet that it's glued by old grease or whatever. Or take a heat gun. You should be able to get a screw driver under the inner part and pry it up.


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## wachuko (Feb 12, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> try a torch, just heat it up a little, don't melt the aluminum casting.   I'll bet that it's glued by old grease or whatever. Or take a heat gun. You should be able to get a screw driver under the inner part and pry it up.


I tried using a torch…. No go.

But looking at the video…I am going to support the large cover and hit the center shaft with a mallet…. Placing a socket of the same diameter of the shaft so to not damage it…

Will be right back…


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## wachuko (Feb 12, 2022)

One step closer!!




Lots of cleaning to do!!  Now to remove the rest… also need to figure out size of replacement bearings… Wells-Index only had one of the two required… the one they had was the less expensive of the two and it was over 100.00


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## wachuko (Feb 12, 2022)

Yeah baby! Yeah!

Do not mind the mess... Before watching the video and trying to tippy-tap-tap it out, I was trying everything... so I used WD-40, way-oil, some heat…  Made a mess inside...   

None of that matters now, it is out!!









The brake band needs a good degreasing, yikes 







Now to clean all this mess and get it all looking like new again.


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## Just for fun (Feb 12, 2022)

All Right !!!   Good job Buddy!


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## wachuko (Feb 13, 2022)

Everything is clean...

Brake shoe/band






I know nobody will see this... but I just had to make it look better.  I went over the counterbores, then chamfered the holes... deburred everything... Did a slight face sanding to get rid of high spots...  The rest will be filled with JB-Weld and painted...






Top cover looking great.  I went over the flat edge with a stone to make sure there were no high spots... 






Brake installed... I used a little bit of copper paste on the shaft...


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## wachuko (Feb 13, 2022)

More...




Again... all those dings get filled with JB-Weld then sanded and everything gets a coat of gray paint...

I also chased the threads (1/4"-20 tap)... all that gets covered with tape so the internals stays clean...




Surface where the brake band touches is now super clean...




All bearings cleaned... strange, when I looked at the bearings part numbers, top and bottom had different numbers in the parts diagram... Inspecting these, both are the same... MRC 109 KSF bearings...


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## wachuko (Feb 13, 2022)

Now to let the JB-Weld dry/harden... 




Let me search for those bearings...


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## wachuko (Feb 13, 2022)

Well, I had to order the Mobil EP2 grease again... first order I placed never arrived...

Also ordered two MRC 109 KSF bearings... MRC SKF USA 109KSF 45mm X 75mm X 16mm 6009-Z Metal Shielded One Side bearing

And sanded and painted the center steel plate, and nut...








Taped the large cover... to avoid any paint getting to areas that should be left bare...




Also sanded and sprayed a coat of primer on the larger cover...   Tomorrow I need to stop by the local hardware store to get some matching gray spray paint...  But already that cover looks 10 times better than before...


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## wachuko (Feb 14, 2022)

Much better... I might go over the dings that are are left...looks like I missed a few on the first round, but I might just leave it as it is...not sure.


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## woodchucker (Feb 14, 2022)

wachuko said:


> Much better... I might go over the dings that are are left...looks like I missed a few on the first round, but I might just leave it as it is...not sure.
> 
> View attachment 396375


what dings, who's going to see it?


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## wachuko (Feb 14, 2022)

Working on the mount for the Maxi Torque-Rite... 

Do you all think this will work fine?










Missing from the photos is a 3/8"x6" base plate that will go between the Maxi and the milling machine.  That plate gets bolted down using the four 1/4" bolts to the pulley head cover using those steel spacers.

The Maxi is then bolted to that 6" plate... 

I am trying to avoid modifying the Wells-Index pulley cover...


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## davidpbest (Feb 14, 2022)

That looks great - even more rigid than my setup.  You will need to carefully center it on the drawbar - if it's not precisely centered, the spline drive might not consistently engage on the splined drawbar cap, causing it to push down the quill instead of seating properly.  I drilled the mounting holes about 1mm oversized to give some adjustment ability.  I would suggest you put in the drawbar, tighten it up on a collet, then check the runout of the drawbar splined head.  In my case, I needed to make a bushing to keep the top of the drawbar consistently centered.  

I'm enjoying seeing the quality of work you're putting into the refurbishment of your mill.


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## wachuko (Feb 15, 2022)

Z-axis power feed arrived!!!  

Man! This has a lot of parts... install will be interesting...


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## wachuko (Feb 15, 2022)




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## davidpbest (Feb 15, 2022)

Looks almost identical to the process used for an Align on a PM clone.  I have some photos (with descriptions under the images) of my install _*here*_ if you get stuck or need a reference point.


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## BGHansen (Feb 15, 2022)

Here's a link to a similar installation I did on my Bridgeport.

Bruce










						Z-axis Power Feed install
					

I absolutely hated hank cranking the knee on my Bridgeport mill.  Might be old age or the fact that I work for a living to afford some conveniences, so I bought a Z-axis power feed unit from All Industrial Tool supply as a belated birthday present to myself.  Don’t mind birthdays so much when...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## wachuko (Feb 16, 2022)

Is this an issue I should worry about?  Already contacted the seller... but if that dent is not a big issue, I do not want to hassle over it...


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## Steve-F (Feb 16, 2022)

Nope, it will work just fine  Maybe just have it face up at least.


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## wachuko (Feb 16, 2022)

Seller replied... he is sending me another bearing.  Will wait for that one....


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## wachuko (Feb 16, 2022)

Steve-F said:


> Nope, it will work just fine  Maybe just have it face up at least.


Okay... I did not wanted the seller to be sending another one if this one would work fine...  No sense in doing that just because of what could have been a cosmetic issue... 

He already replied... let me ask him to forget about it...  Thank you!


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## wachuko (Feb 16, 2022)

I had to try one bearing... still waiting for the Mobil Mobilux EP2 grease to be able to complete this task... but what a difference good bearings make!!  Super quiet!


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## wachuko (Feb 17, 2022)

Arrived!  Can't wait to install it on the 847!  Can't wait to take a photo next to the other one I have on it now... This thing is huge!  Photos are deceiving...


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## wachuko (Feb 19, 2022)

Base plate arrived.  In hindsight, I should have gone with a 1/2” plate… but 3/8” it is.  1/4” holes drilled with 3/8" counterbore holes made on one side for the bolts… 1/2” counterbore bore on the other side for the spacers.

Had to machine the bolts so they would sit flush.  But I will get new bolts anyway…. Ordering 1/4"-20 x3" bolts with low-profile socket head.

Almost there…




Those are the 2” spacers… I could do away with using the shorter ones…hummm... Nah, I want to machine the least amount of material from the drawbar... 




Now to secure the plate in the chuck and drill the center hole… Then to drill and tap the holes for the Maxi... 

EP2 grease should be here Tuesday... and the bolts as well.  Getting closer!


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## wachuko (Feb 19, 2022)

Setup ready for making center hole


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## wachuko (Feb 20, 2022)

Yeah, I did not have to make the rings… that was just for fun…

Center hole right now is at 3/4”… I forgot to write down the diameter of the drawbar 

I will get that tomorrow…


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## Steve-F (Feb 20, 2022)

Looking Awesome!


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## wachuko (Feb 20, 2022)

Difference is significant


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## woodchucker (Feb 20, 2022)

was your old a 4" or 5"?


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## wachuko (Feb 20, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> was your old a 4" or 5"?



4"... it is what I use in the G0704 (smaller milling machine)... that is the one that I bought and did not like at all... figured I would bring it over to the other house to initially use during the testing of the Wells-Index... but got trigger happy and ordered that Kurt...   One of their scratch and dent vises... 

I don't get that metal cover... it does not slide under anything... I know instructions mention to cut it, but I thought it was because they had a one-size fits all... unless you are working on one setup, how is that cover any help when varying holding parts???  I must be missing something


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## wachuko (Feb 20, 2022)

We drove this morning to Ocala to drop off a few things... taking the time to do a few things on the Wells-Index...

Documenting diameter of drawbar: 7/8"




Replaced these parts for new ones... Old ones were working fine... I just hated seeing that beat up nut...




Also, the pin for the the R8 was not too bad, but worn enough that some collects would turn past a certain point... now replaced and they slide and work as expected...


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## wachuko (Feb 20, 2022)

Also started to install the Servo for the Z-axis... but you know how it is... there is always something... 

Removed handle, locking nut, dial, key, and the four hex bolts in there.




Spacer installed




Then cover... had to deburr the larger hole in the cover.  To avoid interference with the spacer.




Also had to clean the holes so the 1/4" bolts went through fine... again, just some burrs... 




Tape covers removed... Bearing race installed... all bolted down...




Shaft extension installed.  I had to do some slight sanding on the extension...


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## wachuko (Feb 20, 2022)

Installed the gear with the proper amount of brass shims for the backslash...  All was great up to that point...




It is obvious that they sent me the wrong gear...  As I slide the rest of the components, here is where things are not how they are supposed to be...






Dial should be all the way in and spaced with some brass and nylon large washers...  You can see the old Servo on the Y-axis, in the back... Dial flush against cover...




So I will be calling them on Tuesday to have them send me the correct gear... man, everything was going so well...

I did test it... table goes up and down without issues.  Pretty cool... and sooooo much better than having to use the handle...   

I know that the mismatch of colors is going to drive me crazy... so either I paint this one gray, or I remove the others and paint those black... but they have to match...  Leave me alone, okay!?... I am not taking meds for this condition


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## woodchucker (Feb 20, 2022)

Jamie don't be so worried about color.


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## wachuko (Feb 20, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> Jaime don't be so worried about color.


Yeah... I know, I know... lol... as long as it is working fine.  That is all that really matters...

Email sent to Servo ( http://servoproductsco.com/html/contact_us.html ) with photos and good explanation of what I have and the need for the correct gear.  Will give them a call tomorrow or Tuesday (if they are off during the holiday)...


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## wachuko (Feb 20, 2022)

Forgot to share photos of both sides of the base plate...  This is before making the holes and 1/4"-20 taps for the bolts that secure the Maxi to it...

Hole increased to 1".  Drawbar is 7/8", so this gives it some good clearance.




Other side... where the spacers rest against...





Okay.. base plate done!  Drilled the 1/4" holes and tap done as well... Just needs a coat of paint.










Correct bolts, length-wise, should be here Tuesday.




I just hope everything ends up centered, hahahahahahahhaha


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## wachuko (Feb 21, 2022)

Servo team responded quickly... asked for a few photos and confirmed I had the correct kit.  Pointed me to Detail A in the instructions... 

Read the instructions Jaime, read the instructions!!   I have to machine the stock sleave to fit over the gear shaft... This will be fun... I have never used a boring bar... I need to see what do I have for drill and mills... I do not want to learn how to use a boring bar with this part... 




Just double checking...




Bringing it back to Orlando to work it there... also took out the oiling system tank to rebuild.. 




Soon my precious... soon...


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## davidpbest (Feb 21, 2022)

If this is your first boring head use, I recommend you do some practicing on some scrap first.  It's easy to overshoot the ID if you aren't familiar with the boring bar adjustments.  It's also easy to get the boring bar clocked wrong in the boring head and have crappy finish.


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## wachuko (Feb 21, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> If this is your first boring head use, I recommend you do some practicing on some scrap first.  It's easy to overshoot the ID if you aren't familiar with the boring bar adjustments.  It's also easy to get the boring bar clocked wrong in the boring head and have crappy finish.


First try at boring, correct.

I will try on something else first.  Thank you.

Then there is the question of how to hold it in the chuck without damaging the threads…. Many challenges with this one…


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## wachuko (Feb 22, 2022)

Oil tank refreshed...

New tank
New filters
New cap
Painted the bracket
Cleaned the handle

Since it is pumping fine, decide not to replace the internal o-ring.  I can always do that later.

Before




Teardown...




The handle cleaned up nicely... and you see also the new parts (filters, cap, o-rings, tank)




After











Video from the parts vendor:


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## wachuko (Feb 22, 2022)

See, I am doing a new thing!!  I am boring!!

I placed a thin metal around the threads and non-threaded section... that is what the tape is holding...

I have a stop short of the .94" depth required...

Dial indicator as well to  practice with that...

Vacuum cleaner hose attached on the end to suck all the chips... 

Also marked the  diameter to avoid mistakes... I need 1.25" and marked just below that to avoid going over...


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## wachuko (Feb 22, 2022)

This is how I feel 









Came out to 0.943 depth.. For the final cut I went from 600 rpm to 1100 rpm and slower feed... finish, for me doing it, came out great!!   Also, 1/8" hole drilled







Got it all cleaned with some degreaser... and ready to be installed!


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## Just for fun (Feb 22, 2022)

Nice job Man, looks great!  Did you do a practice piece first or did you just go for the gusto machine the original piece?


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## wachuko (Feb 22, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> Nice job Man, looks great!  Did you do a practice piece first or did you just go for the gusto machine the original piece?


 I went right at it... started with two drill bits up to 7/8... and then went with the boring bar...

Not too smart for a newbie to do that... I know...

But I got to practice using the 4-jaw to center the part... using some shims to avoid damage to the part and the threads.... Using the stop and dial indicator to know where I started and ended...


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## Just for fun (Feb 22, 2022)

Well cool, looks like you did a good job!

Tim


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## wachuko (Feb 22, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> Well cool, looks like you did a good job!
> 
> Tim


Thank you!!  Feel pretty good... hahahahahaha like the video... "Tonight, old man, you did it! You did it!" hahahahahaha


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## davidpbest (Feb 22, 2022)

Looking great.  I had to laugh at the video you posted.  I played Henry Higgens in my HS production of My Fair Lady in 1964 and had to sing (if you can call it singing) that "you did it" song.


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## wachuko (Feb 22, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> Looking great.  I had to laugh at the video you posted.  I played Henry Higgens in my HS production of My Fair Lady in 1964 and had to sing (if you can call it singing) that "you did it" song.


Loved the book and the movie… we all do at home.  Can’t recall how many times we have seen it.


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## Steve-F (Feb 23, 2022)

Nicely done Jaime!


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## wachuko (Feb 23, 2022)

Before:




Mobil EP2 grease finally arrived.  Bearings installed...



Wave washer 






Used short bolts to drive the steel plate in... then removed those and placed the spacers and top plate... securing all that with the longer bolts with slim head profile.






Took the time to clean the brake handle before installing.  Ready to be installed back in the machine.  Finally!!






Much, much better!


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## Steve-F (Feb 24, 2022)

Too bad there isn't a way to keep the brake arm from marking your nice shiney paint work? Maybe a delrin pad mounted ,like a smile, where it does all the contact?


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## wachuko (Feb 24, 2022)

Steve-F said:


> Too bad there isn't a way to keep the brake arm from marking your nice shiney paint work? Maybe a delrin pad mounted ,like a smile, where it does all the contact?


Oh man... I just realized I left the piece of Delrin in the video... hahahahahhaha... 

Yeah, I know it is a machine and I should not be so worried about a little bit of paint getting scratched...


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## wachuko (Feb 24, 2022)

Steve-F said:


> Too bad there isn't a way to keep the brake arm from marking your nice shiney paint work? Maybe a delrin pad mounted ,like a smile, where it does all the contact?


You had to encourage me... Took a piece of delrin, turn it down, rounded the ends, made a cut and voila!




I know it looks like a suppository, but who cares!


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## wachuko (Feb 24, 2022)

This just arrived!!!  VFD!!  I am closer to powering this machine!!


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## wachuko (Feb 24, 2022)

wachuko said:


> You had to encourage me... Took a piece of delrin, turn it down, rounded the ends, made a cut and voila!
> 
> View attachment 397915
> 
> ...





Steve-F said:


> Too bad there isn't a way to keep the brake arm from marking your nice shiney paint work? Maybe a delrin pad mounted ,like a smile, where it does all the contact?



I just realized what you actually meant... a smile... a flat curved piece under the brake handle... maybe glued to the top cover... so the brake handle moves/slides over  it.... ahhh.... back to the drawing board... let me try that approach.


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## wachuko (Feb 25, 2022)

Drove over to Ocala to drop off a few things...

Oil tank installed...next will be to redo all the lines.




This is how it is supposed to all fit... this is the part I machined.  Now it goes over the brass shaft from the gear... Still need to drill the 1/8" hole in the gear and pin the two parts




Yeah, now it looks better... Instructions call for the extension to be pinned with the stock shaft... but I think that I can remove the extension shaft.  I will not be installing the handle.  I can always screw the extension back in if needed...




Pulley installed!!




This is how the draw bar should be... the stuff you see in the hand brake is copper paste, not rust...




And this is now much I need to remove from it...




A mistake that I made was not measuring the spacer that they place at the end of the of the drawbar... I figured it was the same width as the bar... Nope... so it would not go through the hole I made on the top base, sob!!  So either I turn down that spacer or I make the hole larger...


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## wachuko (Feb 27, 2022)

Disassembled everything and drilled and pinned the gear with adapter I machined.

Needed to modify the dial.  It was interfering with this



Quick pass on the lathe…



Now it sits perfect…


Borrowed the washer and bolt from another handle… all working as expected


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## wachuko (Feb 27, 2022)

The gear is pinned with the machined part… so for practical purposes, it is now one piece…

I need to watch the videos and read the instructions again… to validate if the complete assembly is then pinned to the shaft or if it just held in place with a bolt and washer in the front of the shaft…

EDIT:  This answers my question... 




Only insert a roll pin across everything IF there is no key slot in the leadscrew... mine has the key slot... so the assembly is only held in place, against the motor gear, by the bolt and washer that goes in front.  Got it!


----------



## wachuko (Feb 27, 2022)

Modifying the drawbar… 




I removed the roll pin but the rod would not budge… Applied some heat, tapitytap… would not come out…

Applied some additional heat (this is just using a heat gun)… tried to see if this was screwed in… would not budge either…


Well, took it to the lathe… turning it down little by little… What do you know!  Looks like it is actually threaded.  The red loctite secured it well.

Had I known, I could have used a torch to get the loctite to release…



I am going to continue to turn down the bar to release it all…now that I know I can do it without damaging the threads.


----------



## wachuko (Feb 28, 2022)

Threaded section is out!




Not turning the rest... quicker to cut...




And then clean up...




Confirming thread size... 7/16"-20




Found a 7/16-20 USA tap in the box of stuff I bought...  need a 25/64 drill bit to go with it.




So far, all is going well... next is to drill and tap the top section of the drawbar...


----------



## WobblyHand (Feb 28, 2022)

wachuko said:


> Threaded section is out!
> 
> View attachment 398471
> 
> ...


That tap appears to be a bottoming tap.  It is going to be hard to start.  You might consider getting a tap with a longer taper.  (Tapered chamfer, or plug chamfer.)  Of course if this is all fixtured, like in a lathe, might be ok.  A tapered chamfer tap is a whole lot easier to start.


----------



## wachuko (Feb 28, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> That tap appears to be a bottoming tap.  It is going to be hard to start.  You might consider getting a tap with a longer taper.  (Tapered chamfer, or plug chamfer.)  Of course if this is all fixtured, like in a lathe, might be ok.  A tapered chamfer tap is a whole lot easier to start.


Okay, let me see if there is another one in the box...


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## WobblyHand (Feb 28, 2022)

$13.83 uncoated HSS @ McMaster, probably cheaper elsewhere.


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## wachuko (Feb 28, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> $13.83 uncoated HSS @ McMaster, probably cheaper elsewhere.


Did not have one... ordering.  Might as well order the drill bit as well since shipping will be the same either way...


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## wachuko (Feb 28, 2022)

Initial hole made…




While I wait for the drill bit and tap… did some cleaning…


----------



## WobblyHand (Feb 28, 2022)

Holy smokes, did you put the lathe in the dishwasher?  That's really clean.


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## wachuko (Feb 28, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Holy smokes, did you put the lathe in the dishwasher?  That's really clean.


I really like this smaller lathe…It could use a sturdier bench… I initially thought of selling it when I got the G0709… now I am not so sure…

I would sell it to get a South Bend 9” Model A, but only because I like how those look over this one…for nothing else.


----------



## WobblyHand (Feb 28, 2022)

wachuko said:


> I really like this smaller lathe…It could use a sturdier bench… I initially thought of selling it when I got the G0709… now I am not so sure…
> 
> I would sell it to get a South Bend 9” Model A, but only because I like how those look over this one…for nothing else.


Having a second lathe is a very good thing.  I used my mini-lathe to make a replacement gear shaft for my G0752Z, when the gear shaft broke. When that shaft broke, I lost threading and power feed.  Made the gear shaft in a couple of days, completed it 3 days before the replacement parts came in.  Took a couple of days, only because I had to make my own dumb design first.  When I fit it to the lathe and saw it wasn't going to work, I just copied the existing shaft, and that took a day.


----------



## wachuko (Mar 1, 2022)

Top of the drawbar is done.  Hole drilled to 25/64" and 7/16"-20 tap done... I drilled the hole deeper than needed to give me some additional threads in case I have to shorten it a bit more.

Also took the time to clean all the red thread locker...







Now to check and make sure I got all the dimensions correctly before I pin the two parts...

Marked where the pin hole is on the threaded rod...  nailing that hole in the top part will be fun...


----------



## davidpbest (Mar 2, 2022)

Looks great.  I hope you pin that threaded bar into the upper housing when you're done fitting it to the machine.  The Torque-Rite unit puts a tremendous amount of twisting power into the drawbar, and you don't want that joint coming unscrewed.


----------



## wachuko (Mar 2, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> Looks great.  I hope you pin that threaded bar into the upper housing when you're done fitting it to the machine.  The Torque-Rite unit puts a tremendous amount of twisting power into the drawbar, and you don't want that joint coming unscrewed.


I will, but the machine is not here… next weekend I will take the drawbar with me and confirm all is correct.  Then I can drill, apply red Loctite, and insert the roll pin.


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## wachuko (Mar 6, 2022)

The amount I took off the top of the drawbar was spot on.




So took it out to drill the hole for the roll pin.  And guess what!? by pure luck I was able to drill the hole exactly where the threaded rod had the old hole made... 5/32" hole made... roll pin inserted... Glad it came out as expected.




So back it went...




Secured the Maxi to the base...




Now I need to figure out how and where to secure the switch assembly for it...




Wherever I decide, I will need to make some sort of arm from the base... there is nothing on the head where I can attach this to...

I was thinking, temporarily, to mount it on the side of the DRO display... while I come up with something else... Still thinking...


----------



## wachuko (Mar 6, 2022)

So I decided to start to work on the VFD install... 

Removing the switch was easy... the only thing that I am concerned with is correctly identifying T1-T2-T3...






This is what I think...


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## wachuko (Mar 7, 2022)

Took a few days off work to see if I can get these tasks finished...

So I will reuse the housing of the stock switch... but only as a terminal block to hold the wires from the motor and those that go from there to the VFD... I will remove the handle to the switch.

Because I do not want to move the machine from its current location for now... I need to get a longer cable to run to the receptacle.


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## wachuko (Mar 9, 2022)

Okay... mind you, all this is temporary.  I need a place to install the VFD permanently.  Right now I just wanted to bring this puppy to life...

As I mentioned previously, using the stock switch as terminal block.  Connected to what I am assuming - from left to right -> T1 (white), T2 (red), T3 (black)




That got connected to the VFD... Yellow cable is input from the house 220Volts single phase.  I was able to secure the VFD using some existing 10-24 threaded holes in the column.




What do you say we give it some juice?  I have to be honest... I was scared I was going to burn up the motor, the VFD, or worse... Father-in-law was next to the breaker box ready to kill it all...




But it worked!  Well... it got power... Now I need to go over the manual to learn how to program it.




All I did to test was to raise that 5 to 55... and hit run... it ramped up and motor started to spin, in reverse   Instructions said to just swap two wires... So I swapped T1 with T3 and voila!  It is running in the correct direction.  Having had such a success, decided to end the day on that high note... 

Nothing else works... the potentiometer on the unit seems like it is not enable... there is a strange whine when it reached 55...  From videos, all of this is related to programming... Now to open the manual and start sorting this out.  But happy as heck...


----------



## Steve-F (Mar 10, 2022)

Congratulations!!  I love those Braun flashlights too, they are awesome!


----------



## paulymorph (Mar 10, 2022)

wachuko said:


> So I will reuse the housing of the stock switch... but only as a terminal block to hold the wires from the motor and those that go from there to the VFD... I will remove the handle to the switch.
> 
> Because I do not want to move the machine from its current location for now... I need to get a longer cable to run to the receptacle.


Hi @wachuko.  So i'm new to this thread but spend 90 minutes reading the entire thing last night.  I regret that I wasn't along for the ride from the beginning as I could've shared some of my experiences along the way because I also have a Wells-Index model 847 although mine is with the variable speed head.  Purchased in March of 2020, days before the pandemic started (gave me something to do during all that)...  

Like you, I had/have a lot of things I wanted to improve on it.  First, a VFD to power it, then new scales and DRO.  Powerfeed on the X only for me.  Thought about the knee but I have a drill handy with an attachment I turned on my Grizzly G0752 lathe,  and it raises/lowers super fast and I don't find it too distracting to do it that way for now at least.  After powering it I turned my attention to building a power draw bar.  I took inspiration from many different YT vids and ultimately fabricated my own.  Ultimately it wasn't too difficult, I just put some thinking into the design over a couple of weeks.  I modeled the design in Fusion 360 and then machined it to life.  Here's an album with some pics/vids.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/FR1kjq9TH2HPJY3h9

As for the VFD, I chose this one from Factorymation.com.  https://www.factorymation.com/TD200-2002-1PH.  I have the 2 HP Doerr motor and factorymation sales support confirmed it met all the specs for the motor.  I has worked perfect for 2 years now and no complaints.  I wired a 3 way switch to it to control fwd and reverse to compensate when I change from High to Low.  Like you, I took off the on/off hanging bar but left the original power switch on the side of the head as I like the way it looks.  But I wired through it to the VFD and control the power with the 3 way switch I mounted by the VFD on the right side of the machine on an extended arm/platform that my mill came with.  I still plan on putting a more robust switch along with an E-Stop on but haven't gotten around to it yet.  One item I debated with myself when purchasing the VFD was whether to buy one that had the ability to use an external braking resistor. At some level I wish that I had however I was able to program my VFD to ramp down the speed to off over a 2 second timespan when I turn the motor off.  At almost any speed my VFD is able to complete the ramp down in that timeframe. When I tried any shorter time span it would work at slower RPMs but at higher speeds it would trip the overvoltage safety in the VFD.  As far as I know this doesn't hurt the VFD and just required me to recycle the power each time that happened. So I settled on two seconds which is fine for me.  You'll find such a feature on almost any VFD and the interesting thing is if you use it you really can't use your brake as the VFD is actually powering down the motor through that time period.  If you apply the brake during the ramp down, you can actually cause an over voltage spike.  I can also disable this feature altogether which simply allows the motor to coast to a stop. This is when I would use the brake but at the moment my brake pads are quite worn and would cost around $140 for a new set from Wells.  

The most significant thing I had to do was to replace the spindle bearings.  About a year after I had been using it and was starting to get more in tune with the tolerances of the machine I started taking measurements and unfortunately noticed that I had 2 1/2 thou (.0025) run out at the base of the spindle.  I could actually move the spindle by hand with an endmill mounted (not powered of course).  So I ultimately decided to have Wells replace the bearing and the reground the R8 inside taper as well.  Got it back and the runout was at 2 tenths (.0002) which is right at or better than the spec so this was quite a relief.  It cost ~$900 but shipping was $150 of that...

Lastly (for now), I have just completed removal of the head and pulled all of the auto-down feed gears and cleaned then reassembled.  I recorded as much of the process as I could and am still in the process of editing the footage into something I could post as a reference to others down the road.  

Here's another general album of pics of mine.  Just a big dumping ground of photos/vids...  https://photos.app.goo.gl/2M6m6PnXpJrghHnw9


----------



## paulymorph (Mar 10, 2022)

wachuko said:


> it ramped up and motor started to spin, in reverse  Instructions said to just swap two wires...


ok, and an immediate followup.  ha ha.  You'll find as you begin reading the docs on the VFD that you can and will likely want to reverse the motor using the VFD.  This is where the 3-way switch that I mentioned in my previous post comes in.  So while swapping the wires made it turn in the direction you want, the VFD can electronically swap the wires to turn the motor in the other direction which is the same thing the physical switch on the mill does manually.  VFDs are just awesome!  Another decision may end up grappling with is whether to use the VFD to control the speed of the spindle.  I think there are lots of debates in the forums on this subject.  One side will say to put the belts in the optimal mid-range position for torqe and then adjust the frequency using the potentiometer to adjust the speed.  Most if not all VFDs can ramp the frequency from 0 to 120 Hz (double the standard frequency of power in NA).  The other argument is to use the standard 60 Hz and to control the speeds natively on the machin with the belts or in my case the variable speed belts.  That is what I chose to do as I really love the manual feel of handle to alter the speeds...  I just have the VFD ramp up and down as described in my previous post as well...


----------



## woodchucker (Mar 10, 2022)

paulymorph said:


> Hi @wachuko.  So i'm new to this thread but spend 90 minutes reading the entire thing last night.  I regret that I wasn't along for the ride from the beginning as I could've shared some of my experiences along the way because I also have a Wells-Index model 847 although mine is with the variable speed head.  Purchased in March of 2020, days before the pandemic started (gave me something to do during all that)...
> 
> Like you, I had/have a lot of things I wanted to improve on it.  First, a VFD to power it, then new scales and DRO.  Powerfeed on the X only for me.  Thought about the knee but I have a drill handy with an attachment I turned on my Grizzly G0752 lathe,  and it raises/lowers super fast and I don't find it too distracting to do it that way for now at least.  After powering it I turned my attention to building a power draw bar.  I took inspiration from many different YT vids and ultimately fabricated my own.  Ultimately it wasn't too difficult, I just put some thinking into the design over a couple of weeks.  I modeled the design in Fusion 360 and then machined it to life.  Here's an album with some pics/vids.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/FR1kjq9TH2HPJY3h9
> 
> ...


man those support screws look lost on that casting.  what size screws are those?

Looks like the action on your power draw bar is tight when it rides on the 2 rods, it didn't look like it came back up in the first video.  nice work.


----------



## wachuko (Mar 10, 2022)

paulymorph said:


> ok, and an immediate followup.  ha ha.  You'll find as you begin reading the docs on the VFD that you can and will likely want to reverse the motor using the VFD.  This is where the 3-way switch that I mentioned in my previous post comes in.  So while swapping the wires made it turn in the direction you want, the VFD can electronically swap the wires to turn the motor in the other direction which is the same thing the physical switch on the mill does manually.  VFDs are just awesome!  Another decision may end up grappling with is whether to use the VFD to control the speed of the spindle.  I think there are lots of debates in the forums on this subject.  One side will say to put the belts in the optimal mid-range position for torqe and then adjust the frequency using the potentiometer to adjust the speed.  Most if not all VFDs can ramp the frequency from 0 to 120 Hz (double the standard frequency of power in NA).  The other argument is to use the standard 60 Hz and to control the speeds natively on the machin with the belts or in my case the variable speed belts.  That is what I chose to do as I really love the manual feel of handle to alter the speeds...  I just have the VFD ramp up and down as described in my previous post as well...





paulymorph said:


> Hi @wachuko.  So i'm new to this thread but spend 90 minutes reading the entire thing last night.  I regret that I wasn't along for the ride from the beginning as I could've shared some of my experiences along the way because I also have a Wells-Index model 847 although mine is with the variable speed head.  Purchased in March of 2020, days before the pandemic started (gave me something to do during all that)...
> 
> Like you, I had/have a lot of things I wanted to improve on it.  First, a VFD to power it, then new scales and DRO.  Powerfeed on the X only for me.  Thought about the knee but I have a drill handy with an attachment I turned on my Grizzly G0752 lathe,  and it raises/lowers super fast and I don't find it too distracting to do it that way for now at least.  After powering it I turned my attention to building a power draw bar.  I took inspiration from many different YT vids and ultimately fabricated my own.  Ultimately it wasn't too difficult, I just put some thinking into the design over a couple of weeks.  I modeled the design in Fusion 360 and then machined it to life.  Here's an album with some pics/vids.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/FR1kjq9TH2HPJY3h9
> 
> ...



Paul, so grateful you chimed in.  I really appreciate everyone's feedback and suggestions, those have helped me a lot.   But it is so great to be able to bounce stuff with someone that has the same (or almost the same) machine.  Just to validate what is normal and what needs attention.

I made a few parameter changes on the VFD this morning and this is running great now.  All weird noises/whistles/whines are gone!  

These are the settings I changed:

Control Method -> Code: 00-00 -> From VF mode (0) to SLV mode (1)
Main Frequency Source Selection -> Code: 00-05 -> From Keypad (0) to Potentiometer on Keypad (1)
Frequency Upper Limit -> Code: 00-12 -> Set to 60.00Hz
Frequency Lower Limit -> Code: 00-13 -> Set to 10.00Hz
Acceleration Time -> Code: 00-14 -> Set to 5 seconds
Deceleration Time -> Code: 00-15 -> Set to 5 seconds
Carrier Frequency -> Code: 11-01 -> From 5 to 16 kHz
Carrier Mode Selection -> Code: 11-02 -> From Mode1, 2-Phase PWM modulation (1) to Mode0 3-Phase PWM modulation (0)

I just need to learn what else needs to be configured and if I need to further tune the ones I already set... 






I want a remote pendant/control panel... so I can have the VFD safely placed away from any debris/chips/fluids.... 

I just can't express how happy I am to see it running and with the noise from those pulley bearings gone!!

Now that I have all the correct grease types needed, I want to remove the spindle and go over the grease in there...


----------



## wachuko (Mar 10, 2022)

@paulymorph one question I had... how much effort is it to pull down on the spindle??  

Here, take a look... I think this should be a smoother operation... but I have no idea where to start... I did take out the spindle and everything looked great inside... The resistance on mine has to come from somewhere else...


----------



## woodchucker (Mar 10, 2022)

wachuko said:


> @paulymorph one question I had... how much effort is it to pull down on the spindle??
> 
> Here, take a look... I think this should be a smoother operation... but I have no idea where to start... I did take out the spindle and everything looked great inside... The resistance on mine has to come from somewhere else...


The quill lock????  

edit: remove the quill lock knob, unscrew it.  I'll bet it's squeezing the nuts too tight .  Did you try to move it while everything was removed off the spindle housing itself?  Was it more free?


----------



## wachuko (Mar 10, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> The quill lock????
> 
> edit: remove the quill lock knob, unscrew it.  I'll bet it's squeezing the nuts too tight .  Did you try to move it while everything was removed off the spindle housing itself?  Was it more free?


Quill lock is loose... but I can take it out and check that... would be nice if it was something that simple.

When the spindle was out, yes, to make sure the spring was wound before reinserting... 

If that does not solve it, I will remove the spindle again and check everything... I have to grease all that inside anyway...


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## woodchucker (Mar 10, 2022)

wachuko said:


> Quill lock is loose... but I can take it out and check that... would be nice if it was something that simple.
> 
> When the spindle was out, yes, to make sure the spring was wound before reinserting...
> 
> If that does not solve it, I will remove the spindle again an





wachuko said:


> d check everything... I have to grease all that inside anyway...


It calls for grease, not oil?
I'm thinking you may have the nuts too tight, or IDK.. just throwing possibilities out there.


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## wachuko (Mar 10, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> It calls for grease, not oil?
> I'm thinking you may have the nuts too tight, or IDK.. just throwing possibilities out there.



Grease, correct... but let me double check.

That is the questions that I have... what nuts I need to loosen... It was like this when I got it, I just think it is not normal... something, somewhere is tighter than it needs to be.  

But I want to remove the spindle again and double check the internals... But I recall coming out easy and going in easy as well... weird... 

I have not touched the lever area... I will go over the manual to see what is involved in checking in there...


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## paulymorph (Mar 10, 2022)

Yeah, that's WAY too much effort to lower your spindle.  Here's mine.
The nut I reference in the video is referred to as the Stop nut in the head diagram.  Part #38.  I've attached a trimmed down version of the manual specific to the schematics if you care.  And if you haven't started to become familiar with these schematics, I highly recommend it.  They're invaluable references and are quite fun to learn how to read (follow all the lines)...















						847composite+manual.pdf
					






					drive.google.com


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## wachuko (Mar 10, 2022)

Wow!!  That was extremely helpful!!!  That has to be my issue... Thank you!!

The streaks are because last time I was there I put a thin coat of grease all over it... let me redo mine again...  But that nut has to be the issue that I have...


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## wachuko (Mar 10, 2022)

I stand corrected... vertical spindle uses oil... that is what the oil cup is for... duh... my bad.  Let me clean all that and start over.  I misread the list...

Mobil Vactra Oil No. 2


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## paulymorph (Mar 10, 2022)

Also forgot to mention something about my VFD setup...  I actually mounted a switch next to mine between the wall and the VFD so I wouldn't have to unplug the VFD from the wall.  Can sort of act like an E-Stop but I don't really every use it that way.


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## paulymorph (Mar 10, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> man those support screws look lost on that casting.  what size screws are those?
> 
> Looks like the action on your power draw bar is tight when it rides on the 2 rods, it didn't look like it came back up in the first video.  nice work.


If you're referring to the screws holding down the power draw bar, those are 1/4 - 20 cap head screws.  Plenty tight.  

Regarding the spring up action on the pneumatics, you'll probably never believe this I might not explain it that well but after engaging either forward or in reverse which also pressurize the pneumatic to push the body down, I have to relieve the pressure so that the springs can push the body back up. There are special pneumatic valves that I think have balls inside them that allow for exhausting the pressure but what I did was super MacGyver.   
I put a tiny pinhole in the line directly above the pneumatic that relieves the pressure just fast enough to let the springs push the cylinder back up.  It was totally a hail mary but believe it or not, it's worked for 2 years now and the hole doesn't increase in size and it totally works.  The hole is actually small enough that the inrush of pressure is more than enough to push the whole mechanism down and stars spinning.


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## woodchucker (Mar 10, 2022)

paulymorph said:


> If you're referring to the screws holding down the power draw bar, those are 1/4 - 20 cap head screws.  Plenty tight.
> 
> Regarding the spring up action on the pneumatics, you'll probably never believe this I might not explain it that well but after engaging either forward or in reverse which also pressurize the pneumatic to push the body down, I have to relieve the pressure so that the springs can push the body back up. There are special pneumatic valves that I think have balls inside them that allow for exhausting the pressure but what I did was super MacGyver.
> I put a tiny pinhole in the line directly above the pneumatic that relieves the pressure just fast enough to let the springs push the cylinder back up.  It was totally a hail mary but believe it or not, it's worked for 2 years now and the hole doesn't increase in size and it totally works.  The hole is actually small enough that the inrush of pressure is more than enough to push the whole mechanism down and stars spinning.
> ...


no, I'm referring to your levelers.... they look tiny... I know they are bigger, but they look smallllllllllllll.


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## paulymorph (Mar 10, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> no, I'm referring to your levelers.... they look tiny... I know they are bigger, but they look smallllllllllllll.


Oh, the feet levelers.  Those are fairly substantial.  7/8 - 14 threaded rod and 3 1/2 inch round disks from McMaster-Carr.  Not gonna lie.  It was a straight up copy of Keith Rucker's video since he also has an 847.


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## wachuko (Mar 10, 2022)

paulymorph said:


> Also forgot to mention something about my VFD setup...  I actually mounted a switch next to mine between the wall and the VFD so I wouldn't have to unplug the VFD from the wall.  Can sort of act like an E-Stop but I don't really every use it that way.
> View attachment 399794


Yes, I quickly realized that I needed something similar.  My plan is to use a small breaker box that I have.

Back to trying to make spindle smooth…  I removed the cap and loosened the nut.  Much better.  Would still not go back up on its own, but so much better now.




Edit: I watched the video again.  You mentioned that there is a thrust bearing… thinking of just changing that… could be the reason it is not working as smoothly as yours in the video.


----------



## paulymorph (Mar 10, 2022)

Here's what they look like.


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## wachuko (Mar 10, 2022)

(2) Thrust washer: 885-013-006  and (1) Thrust bearing: 885-012-010


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## wachuko (Mar 10, 2022)

paulymorph said:


> ... I have the 2 HP Doerr motor and factorymation sales support confirmed it met all the specs for the motor.  I has worked perfect for 2 years now and no complaints.  I wired a 3 way switch to it to control fwd and reverse to compensate when I change from High to Low.  Like you, I took off the on/off hanging bar but left the original power switch on the side of the head as I like the way it looks.  But I wired through it to the VFD and control the power with the 3 way switch I mounted by the VFD on the right side of the machine on an extended arm/platform that my mill came with...
> 
> The most significant thing I had to do was to replace the spindle bearings.  About a year after I had been using it and was starting to get more in tune with the tolerances of the machine I started taking measurements and unfortunately noticed that I had 2 1/2 thou (.0025) run out at the base of the spindle.  I could actually move the spindle by hand with an endmill mounted (not powered of course).  So I ultimately decided to have Wells replace the bearing and the reground the R8 inside taper as well.  Got it back and the runout was at 2 tenths (.0002) which is right at or better than the spec so this was quite a relief.  It cost ~$900 but shipping was $150 of that...
> 
> Lastly (for now), I have just completed removal of the head and pulled all of the auto-down feed gears and cleaned then reassembled.  I recorded as much of the process as I could and am still in the process of editing the footage into something I could post as a reference to others down the road.



I did not understand the comment on the FWD and Reverse until I went back to the garage and switched from High to Low...  son of a gun... I will need to do something similar then... ha!

The bearings that were really bad in my machine, were those in the pulley assembly... Right now, the only noise from that area is coming from the belt.  The pulley on the motor is not perfectly aligned with the pulley on the other side.  I can see that I could adjust it up and get it aligned.  That will eliminate that slight noise that the belt is making... But the difference in sound is night and day from before... those bearings in the pulley were really shot...






Took the time to remove the thrust washers and bearing... those were in good condition. 







I cleaned them well, new grease and they went back in... so that was not it...


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## wachuko (Mar 11, 2022)

Maxi Torque-Rite installed!!  







Manual calls for 90 psi but to lower it if I wanted to... I left it at 80 psi... here is the video testing it...  Not used to recording videos with me in it... I noticed that I kept checking the quill lock, LOL, that was just my nerves... hahahahaha


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## Steve-F (Mar 12, 2022)

Love it!!!!


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## WobblyHand (Mar 12, 2022)

Good job!  Might be the microphone, but seems loud.  Is it loud in real life?


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## wachuko (Mar 12, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Good job!  Might be the microphone, but seems loud.  Is it loud in real life?


Wife was recording the video… her comment: “Oh my… neighbors are going to love you… that is loud! Is that running all the time!!??”

No honey, only when I am changing a holder tool/bit…

Yeah, kind of louder than I expected.  But sooooo easy now to change holders…


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## WobblyHand (Mar 12, 2022)

wachuko said:


> Wife was recording the video… her comment: “Oh my… neighbors are going to love you… that is loud! Is that running all the time!!??”
> 
> No honey, only when I am changing a holder tool/bit…
> 
> Yeah, kind of louder than I expected.  But sooooo easy now to change holders…


Ear muff time.  Loud noise causes cumulative hearing damage.  Is the noise source primarily the air exhaust port?  If so, make a muffler!


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## davidpbest (Mar 12, 2022)

Sounds normal to me.  Great job.


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## wachuko (Mar 12, 2022)

Time to replace all the oil lines....  Got a few done, the next ones are a bit more time consuming due to access... will be right back...


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## Just for fun (Mar 12, 2022)

Good job Man, Looks great!


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## wachuko (Mar 12, 2022)

Thank you all for the kind words and encouragement!!

Oil lines changed, repaired, and those not stock, replaced…

A few photos…

Previous owner replaced a line with another system… I got some new stock-looking adapters to replace




It is nice to be able to see the oil flow…




I said I was not going to replace the o-ring… but decided to do it at the last minute… also replaced the oil line inside the tank…




I ended up using all the compression seals I bought…. Here I thought I was going to have spares… I had not seen all the oil lines…



But it is all done and working great!  Topped off the tank again and finito…


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## wachuko (Mar 12, 2022)

Oh, and I did not show how/where I installed the switch for the Maxi Torque-Rite… 

I got some spacers, longer 10-32 bolts and attached it to the cover that hides the gear that tilts the head.  I can still get to the nuts to loosen for adjustment…


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## wachuko (Mar 12, 2022)

One more… Installed a 4-outlet extension to plug the DRO and all power feeds…also moved the VFD to the other side since the air regulator is on the other side.  




That is all for now… need to head back to Orlando


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## wachuko (Mar 14, 2022)

Making a list of what is pending:

1. Recondition stops for the older powerfeeds.  One is not working in one direction.  The other is only slowing down the motor instead of stopping it... I hope these can be reconditioned and not have to replace them with new units.
2. Install the hardware for the stop of the new Z-axis powerfeed.
3. Relocating VFD
4. Remote switches for VFD (On/Off, Fwd/Rev, Potentiometer)
5. Belt alignment.  Will do this next weekend.  Just need to pull the motor out, reposition the pulley on the motor shaft, and install back in place...
6. DRO mount/arm is secured on a bolt/nut that locks the ways... not optimal place for it.  My plan is to relocate that... I should be able to mount it on the top of that part that slides back and forth... there are two big holes in there.  The one towards the front would be perfect.  Just need to big washers to get it done.  This will avoid having to drill and tap holes elsewhere...






7. Remove old and install new serial number plate
8. Eventually I want a more modern DRO with all the functions I have seen on the newer units.  And I would like a 3-axis DRO unit instead of the 2-axis in there now... But not a high priority... I measured the scales... documenting here for future reference: X-Axis: 43" ; Y-Axis: 17"; Z-Axis: N/A - Not sure if the ones in there can be reuse with a newer display or if I will have to replace it all...
9. Z-axis/Knee shaft seems to have a slight bent.  Noticeable when I use the powerfeed fast-speed option.  I wonder if this can be remove without removing the table...
10. Make a cover for the rear of the head support.  Photo, obviously, is not mine... just showing the cover I will be making...




And then cleaning, cleaning, and more cleaning... when I did the oil lines I found so many crevices filled with chips... vacuumed as much as I could... but there is a lot of cleaning still needed.  The table slots for example, have not touched those except for putting the vac to them...


----------



## paulymorph (Mar 16, 2022)

wachuko said:


> 10. Make a cover for the rear of the head support. Photo, obviously, is not mine... just showing the cover I will be making...


Just for reference...


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## wachuko (Mar 16, 2022)

Thank you.  That allows me to work on it here in Orlando.  I will have it ready before we head out to Ocala this Friday.

I have some Lexan scrap material that I can use to make the cover... and just spray paint it gray.


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## wachuko (Mar 16, 2022)

Done… letting the paint dry… nothing wrong with the paint, those are reflections of the clouds…


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## wachuko (Mar 16, 2022)

Well that was stupid of me to drill the holes... 

I made the cover 5" in diameter... the holes are 3/8" from the border... Thinking mine did not have the holes and I would have to drill them.    Now looking close at one of my photos, the holes are there... sigh... pretty sure the ones I made will not align with those there... 

Oh well, doubt it would make little difference to drill and tap new holes...


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## paulymorph (Mar 17, 2022)

I was a little surprised to notice on mine, those are small spiral nails.  Not generatlly intended to come out.  Same thing used to fasten the nameplates to the body.  I got a box of 100 from McMaster a while back.


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## wachuko (Mar 17, 2022)

paulymorph said:


> I was a little surprised to notice on mine, those are small spiral nails.  Not generatlly intended to come out.  Same thing used to fasten the nameplates to the body.  I got a box of 100 from McMaster a while back.


Yes, same in mine... but I only have 4 to replace the one on the serial number plate...  So installing this cover with some 8-32 screws instead.

But those come out if you turn them... that least I have seen others do that.... some go to the trouble of making a slot for a flat screwdriver to remove them... but most just grab them with pliers and turn them to remove...


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## wachuko (Mar 17, 2022)

Luckily I was able to remove the pins… and guess what! Both of the holes aligned with the holes in the cover I made!!!

What were the odds of that happening!!??!!!





I got some paint… will remove the cover, paint the area and reinstall… but glad it worked out!!


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## wachuko (Mar 18, 2022)

Machine adjusted…tramming done.  Did both tilt and nod tramming.  Sorry, forgot to take photos… That Boring Research tramming tool makes it easier as well… 

I also installed and indexed the vise…




I need to make some chips!  Brought some scrap aluminum blocks and some mills to give it a test drive…


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## wachuko (Mar 18, 2022)

Now the cover install is done…painted the surrounding area…


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## davidpbest (Mar 19, 2022)

Start waxing that baby!!!


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## wachuko (Mar 19, 2022)

Much to do before I can say that I am done with all the things needed to be finished, but I had to make that first cut!! Using just a block of aluminum... Cutting tool is an Accusize Indexable End Mill with 3 carbide inserts and a 2" cutting diameter.

Funny thing is that at first, with all the excitement of making that first cut...I was scratching my head as to why it was not working... I had it with the belt in the lowest setting on the pulley... the spindle was spinning but it would stop as soon as I moved it to the material and started cutting... I was just beyond myself.... thinking I had wasted all this money on this machine and it did not work!!

Hard headed newbie, what am I to do... give it more speed of course (MORE POWER!!)... I switched it all off, moved the belt to a higher setting... Ah, there! Now it will work... Turn on the VFD... and now the spindle would not spin one bit... Motor was spinning faster... spindle was not moving...

Long story longer...  I forgot to put the machine in gear .  Switched it to gear... First chips made... Life is good.







Already scratched the surface with the caliper...  Oh, and I only did that top surface... side cut you see there was old...   I wanted to cut all  sides, but forgot parallel bars at the other house...

Anyway, interesting how it looks in the photo... surface is smooth to the touch...





Video of the first chips made!!!! Wohoooo!!!


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## wachuko (Mar 20, 2022)

Okay… aligning the pulleys… tried to slide the one on the motor.  Four set screws loosen and would not slide up nor down.

Out comes the motor assembly with the pulleys.  Used a puller to take it off.  Clean and polished the shaft.  Also cleaned and removed any burrs from the key and key way…

Used a little bit of anti seized.  Everything is now sliding  smoothly.

Can’t install back, wife is in a hurry to get back to Orlando…

On the test cut, thinking back, that was not wise… VFD is on the side and not protected/covered… chips could have gotten inside and made for some nasty fireworks…. Not smart at all…


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## wachuko (Mar 20, 2022)

Photos 






And why it was stupid to make those chips…look where the VFD is located temporarily…


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## wachuko (Mar 20, 2022)

Back in Orlando... All the parts for the control box arrived...  Assembled all the switches, made a cutout for the RPM display.  

Simple setup...

Frequency dial (potentiometer) - RPM Display - Reverse- Forward - Stop


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## Steve-F (Mar 21, 2022)

That is very Cool!!! Love it!


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## wachuko (Mar 21, 2022)

Steve-F said:


> That is very Cool!!! Love it!


Thank you.  Just need to find a good spot for it... will play with that next weekend.


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## wachuko (Mar 22, 2022)

Well... I did not read the diagram correctly... going over everything again and it looks like I purchased the wrong switches...




I got  Normally Open Momentary switches thinking that the VFD only needed a signal to activate.  I might have gotten that wrong.  It needs a normally open latching switch.

So making a few changes... for selecting Forward and Reverse I ordered a 3 Position Selector...




And ordering latching switches...  Both of those should be here tomorrow and I can finish wiring the control box to take with me this weekend.


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## Just for fun (Mar 22, 2022)

Sounds good Jaime, looking forward to seeing what you do this weekend.


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## wachuko (Mar 23, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> Sounds good Jaime, looking forward to seeing what you do this weekend.



Thank you.

Decided that I will keep the VFD there.  I will just need to get an enclosure for it.

VFD dimensions-> Height: 5.67" - Width: 4.65" - Depth: 5.80" - Weight: 3.52 LBS.

Thinking of going with this one (still looking to see if I find something less expensive):  Gratury Junction Box




I will need to make some cutouts for ventilation (for installing a fan that vents to the side away from all the cutting) and routing the wires...



EDIT:  Ordered this one instead... along with fans and grills.




Switches arrived and was able to swap those... now to wire everything here and take it with me to install on the VFD.


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## Steve-F (Mar 23, 2022)

Liking the box idea! And they are color coordinated


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## wachuko (Mar 24, 2022)

Okay... all the wiring done on the inside of the remote box...  I forgot a small detail.  I wanted to be able to turn off the RPM display and forgot that when I purchased the enclosure... So had to improvise with a smaller switch that I had... Not as elegant, but it works...

I was testing the display with a small 12volt battery.  To make sure I had inserted the display in the correct orientation.






EDIT: I was going to wait to trim the length when installing the other end on the VFD, but decided to install the sleeve now... I can trim it all when I get to Ocala and test this...


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## wachuko (Mar 24, 2022)

Pulley in correct position now... belt is nice and straight.  Much better.

Before




After


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## wachuko (Mar 25, 2022)

Documenting changes to VFD







Connecting potentiometer using terminals: 10V, AVI, and AGND
Programming change:  Main Frequency Source Selection -> Code: 00-05 -> From  Potentiometer on Keypad (1) to External AVI Analog Signal Input (2)




For the Forward/Reverse switch using terminals: COM, S1, and S2
Programming change:

First I need to enable the external controls:


Basic Parameters -> Alternative Run Source Selection - Code: 00-02 -> From Default (0) to External Run/Stop (1)




Then program these:

External Digital Input and Output Parameters -> Multi-function Terminal Function Setting-S1 - Code: 03-00 -> From Default (0) to Forward/Stop Command or Run /Stop (0) - no change, just need to confirm it is set to (0)
External Digital Input and Output Parameters -> Multi-function Terminal Function Setting-S2 - Code: 03-01 -> From Default (1) to Reverse/Stop Command or REV/FWD (1) - no change, just need to confirm it is set to (1)
Emergency STOP - used  External Digital Input and Output Parameters -> Multi-function Terminal Function Setting-S3 - Code: 03-02 -> From Default Preset Speed 1 (2) to Rapid Stop ( Decel to stop) (14).  Will also require to set Code: 00-17 - Deceleration Time 2 from Default (10) to 2 Hz - I need to see what is the lowest the motor will work with without overloading the VFD on deceleration...  This also means using the E-STOP switch on Normally Open (NO) instead of Normally Closed (NC) configuration.






Start/Stop - Green switch -  I just wired the COM to the green switch... Pretty redundant as the REV/FWD switch selector has a STOP as well in the center position... but hey, it was already there so I had to use it... Can't be too careful.


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## wachuko (Mar 25, 2022)

Goodness... my ability to make mistakes is not slowing down.  Diagram clearly states using a 5K Ohm potentiometer... and what did I buy and wired??  a 10K.... good grief...




I will leave it disabled for now while the correct one arrives...

Some have asked for the parts used.  I have tried to call those out and provided links along the way. But collecting them all here to make it easier:

Push Button Switch Control Station - this one you can get in several different sizes... just select the one you would want for the stuff you are installing... holes are 22mm so get the switches to fit that. 
 For the RPM display, I had to cut a rectangle with a Dremel... and had to make a smaller hole for the potentiometer.  And, as mentioned, if you plan it better than I did, you would get a box with one more hole to be able to turn off the Tachometer/RPM.  I had the files to 3D print a box for the RPM display... But I had already made the hole for it before I realized I needed that for another switch... Learn from my mistakes...

Push Button Latching switch - yeah, after incorrectly buying momentary switches, realized that the diagram calls for latching switches... so many extra parts left for whatever projects comes next...
FWD/REV switch selector - again, better to just have one switch that selects between the two options.  Saves one spot on the box.
Stop Switch - got to have some bling... lol
Tachometer/RPM - display comes in different colors (Green, Blue, Red), just get the color you like the most...
Braided Sleeve - great to keep the wires protected
18/4 AWG - Shielded Stranded Wire/Cable- I had some left over from another project... gone now, looks like I will need to order another role to keep handy
Potentiometer - the correct 5K Ohms one!!
Cable Gland Connectors - I used what I had... but here is the link to similar ones...


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## wachuko (Mar 25, 2022)

Okay... part of the wiring done and working as expected!  Wooohoo!

Quick video testing what I have wired so far.  You can see that, once the E-STOP is used, if the FWD/REV switch is engaged, it will not start until I recycle the green switch... for safety reasons of course.  Cool!






And a short clip after aligning the pulleys... much smoother and quieter now.


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## wachuko (Mar 25, 2022)

Aso removed the arm that holds the DRO display.  I did not like how it was mounted.   Previous owner attached it to one of the bolts that hold down the gib.  

I need to buy a washer as the one there is gone.




My plan is to flip the arm around and install it from the top.  There is hole there, big hole that will require some large washers.  Either that or drill and tap a hole to secure it.

Doing all this for two reasons.  (1) I really do not think that the arm should have been secured from that bolt and (2) I need it to be more sturdy so that I can install the VFD control box on the bottom of the DRO Display.   So everything is within reach, but also able to swing away if needed.


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## Steve-F (Mar 25, 2022)

Very cool!! It would take me 100 years to wire something like that!


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## WobblyHand (Mar 25, 2022)

wachuko said:


> I need to buy a washer as the one there is gone.


Make one!  I know you have a couple of lathes...  Quick and easy job!


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## wachuko (Mar 25, 2022)

Steve-F said:


> Very cool!! It would take me 100 years to wire something like that!


I learned a lot from the coaching I got from @macardoso during the G0704 CNC build....  hehehehee


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## wachuko (Mar 25, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Make one!  I know you have a couple of lathes...  Quick and easy job!


I need to start defaulting to thinking like that instead of "I need to buy".... have to do a mindset shift to "I have to make that"...


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## WobblyHand (Mar 25, 2022)

wachuko said:


> I need to start defaulting to thinking like that instead of "I need to buy".... have to do a mindset shift to "I have to make that"...


It takes a little while to get there, but is definitely rewarding.  I'm sure you have plenty of scrap you can make stuff from by now.  Think about it, you have thousands of dollars of machinery, knocking off a washer is like what, less than a minute or two?

Instead of being helpless with a broken gear shaft on my lathe, I just made another one on my mini-lathe.  It only took a day, and that's because I messed around with an alternative design.  Once I gave up on my "great idea" and decided to copy the existing, it didn't take long at all.  I bought spare parts from Grizzly, but haven't installed them, as my copy of the gear shaft is still in service.


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## wachuko (Mar 29, 2022)

Okay... enclosure arrived.  Drilled the holes for the fans and cable connectors...

Yeah... I forgot that the cables were coming from the bottom... I had drilled holes for a fan in there, lol.






Only missing the plastic cover over the filters.  Those arrive tomorrow.




Only missing the plastic cover over the filters.  Those arrive tomorrow.




Done.




Also replaced the 10K ohm potentiometer with the correct 5K ohm.




So finally ready to be installed.


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## paulymorph (Mar 29, 2022)

So remind me, what did you ultimately decide for controlling the power to the VFD.  Are you going to use the breaker you had mentioned earlier
For mine, I would love to implement the behavior of my grizzly lathe.  It has a VFD embedded in the back of the lathe.  It uses 1 NO and 1 NC momentary buttons connected to a magnetic contactor to engergize the entire lathe or to turn it all off.  The motor doesn't start until I turn the 3 position switch to fwd or rev.  It would be pretty cool to have a pendant for the mill that could do the equivalent.  ...Control the master power to the VFD which in turn would power everything.


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## wachuko (Mar 29, 2022)

paulymorph said:


> So remind me, what did you ultimately decide for controlling the power to the VFD.  Are you going to use the breaker you had mentioned earlier
> For mine, I would love to implement the behavior of my grizzly lathe.  It has a VFD embedded in the back of the lathe.  It uses 1 NO and 1 NC momentary buttons connected to a magnetic contactor to engergize the entire lathe or to turn it all off.  The motor doesn't start until I turn the 3 position switch to fwd or rev.  It would be pretty cool to have a pendant for the mill that could do the equivalent.  ...Control the master power to the VFD which in turn would power everything.
> 
> View attachment 402278



Plug from the wall to a small breaker box -> to VFD.  Correct.  That is just to kill all electricity to the machine. Right now I am just plugging and unplugging from the wall during the testing.  Need to get the breaker box with the correct breakers amperage. 

I just kept it simple... wiring as you suggest would be nicer than what I did for the overall power switch.  Everything else works as you describe, mill does not run until I flip the FWD/STOP/REV switch.


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## wachuko (Apr 2, 2022)

Okay... almost done with the wired-remote.  Only need to install the RPM/Tachometer... need a mount for the pickup sensor and to make the wire harness longer.




Moved the arm from the bolt that tightens the gib to the top... there was a hole there.  Used some Delrin blocks drilled with a hole to accommodate a bolt... worked like a charm.











Cleaned the DRO display housing, removed the marker X and Y that were there... replaced with some printed labels.  Double face tape to secure the wired-remote control box (later I will make a bracket for it)









Two 4-receptacles extentions







And a quick video...


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## Steve-F (Apr 3, 2022)

Puuuurfect!!


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## wachuko (Jun 23, 2022)

Updating the list...

*Pending*

Cleaning... lots of cleaning needed. In progress.
Shaft on Z axis seems to be bent. Need to check how much this part and order a replacement.. plus I need to figure out if this can be replaced without having to take apart the table... if it can be done with minimal disassembly





Lowering quill takes more effort than normal. Need to take apart that area to inspect what is causing the issue.
Pending install of Z-axis stops
Order and install an updated DRO setup. Mine has no functions. Wonder if I can reuse the scales and avoid having to install new ones...or if these are too old to be compatible with newer DRO displays
*Done*

First priority is to decide on what VFD to buy. I was made aware that a static converter is less expensive, but reading on those, they could heat up the motor, power comes down... I do not mind spending a little bit more on a VFD if that works better than a static unit... Just need to figure out which one. If I do decide to try the static converter, @matthewsx mentioned having good experience with those from North America Phase Converters
Add a remote control box for VFD 
Clean DRO display box. Apply labels for X and Y. Relocate bracket/arm. 
Repair oil lines - Oil system completely overhauled 
Power draw bar. Being tall must have been a requirement for working in a machine shop. I need something to avoid having to use a ladder to get to the drawbar!! I have seen different setups. Some cool designs using a butterfly air impact wrench. I am exaggerating of course... have not even tried to reach the drawbar... 
Replace all metal emblems/badges... You can see the one for the model and serial number... all gone... - Was only able to get a new serial plate. The rest of the badges will remain as is. 
There is one knob for the Y axis lock that is not original... I think... need to check photos of other machines - New knobs and handwheel ordered, received, and installed
Z-axis servo motor... Lazy? Yeah... If I can find a motor to drive the knee, without breaking the bank, that would be great. 
Replace bearing in pulley assembly 
Replace locking nut, R8 guide pin in quill 
Cover for rear of column 
Get R8 collect set 
Get keyless drill chuck - got a PM unit


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## mmcmdl (Jun 23, 2022)

Makes me tired just reading your " done " list wachuco !


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## wachuko (Jun 23, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> Makes me tired just reading your " done " list wachuco !


Ha!  I did that before dividing the list in Pending and Done tasks... let me fix that!


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## mmcmdl (Jun 23, 2022)

I have a huge pending list , I haven't started my completed list yet . Maybe in a few years .


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## wachuko (Jun 23, 2022)

Email sent to Mark at Wells-Index... to help me figure out what part I need to order... hard to figure out from the manual as those drawings are not clear...


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## woodchucker (Jun 23, 2022)

as far as the quill goes. could it be the lock is on. On a BP the lock handle drops to lock... which has a habit of locking when you don't want it.

did you check it.   Also when you were machining the plates for the pnuematic power bar, was it working well? if so, did a chip get lodged where it isn't supposed to be.


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## wachuko (Jun 23, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> as far as the quill goes. could it be the lock is on. On a BP the lock handle drops to lock... which has a habit of locking when you don't want it.
> 
> did you check it.   Also when you were machining the plates for the pnuematic power bar, was it working well? if so, did a chip get lodged where it isn't supposed to be.



Quill Lock - I will check again, but does not feel like that is the problem.  I will see if I can completely undo the lock to rule that out.  I also need to check the mechanism that lowers it... to make sure it is not debris in the mechanism causing the problem... 

Also thinking about removing the complete quill assembly and checking the shaft's splines for any burrs (I should have done this the first time I took it out... ) But it came out fine and went it without issues... so doubt it is that...

I machine the plates at the other house in Orlando... only did assembly in Ocala... so no chips anywhere when I was doing this. 

I also checked what @paulymorph suggested in post #193 in this thread... but did not solve the issue.

Obviously, it is something I did or overlooked...  And for the life of me, can't remember if it was like that when I bought it.... shame on me...

I will work on this next because it is bugging me to no end...


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## wachuko (Jun 23, 2022)

Completely removed the lock... still the same effort needed...




What you see on the left is the quill...and a reflection of that hole... quill is smooth.




And removed this as well... just in case...











But still not a smooth and easy pull...

3 months ago






Today


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## wachuko (Jun 23, 2022)

And here you can see what I mean by a bent shaft on the knee shaft






Part number confirmed.   Part #111-346-202 is the elevating shaft and is $194.60 plus shipping.

I am thinking... it is a rod/shaft... right?  Straight shaft with some key slots in it.... right?  Nothing fancy?  Hummmm


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## Just for fun (Jun 23, 2022)

The quill does seem pretty tight, and it sounds like your just about to the bottom of it.


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## wachuko (Jun 23, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> The quill does seem pretty tight, and it sounds like your just about to the bottom of it.


Yes.  It should be smooth... It is not.... 

I have been trying to go over each area to eliminate components...  I do not think that it is the quill... because I can remove it and install it without much effort...  Is like the effort is from the actual mechanism that the lever is attached to... 

I also thought that maybe the splines have burrs in them... but again, when I removed the quill assembly, it came out easy... 

A bit reluctant to disassemble the lever mechanism... not sure how the spring is setup in there.  But looks like I will need to do so... Maybe is debris in the actual gear/pinion that moves the quill... 

@paulymorph are you around?  You did this already.  Could sure use some help/guidance taking that apart.

Let me review the parts diagram and see what I am going to find as I take it apart...


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## wachuko (Jun 23, 2022)

Found a recent video, from Steve Watroba, on the auto down feed mechanism... He has a playlist on the work he has done with his 847.  Video does not help me for what I need to check, but wanted to place it it because it explains how the auto down feed is used.

Still looking for one for the manual down mechanism...


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## wachuko (Jun 23, 2022)

On the shaft... order placed for Part #111-346-202 - Elevating Shaft.  Should be here in a couple of days.

And now I am kicking myself... I had them on the phone!  I could have asked for guidance on the issue with the quill... argghhh ...

I will call them tomorrow and ask.


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## wachuko (Jun 24, 2022)

Back in Orlando, so this will have to wait until I am back in Ocala... researching for now...





Documenting what I am thinking of doing (feel free to comment):


Remove the quill/spindle assembly so I can look inside the head.  Already positioned everything so I can take it out without having to tilt the head again...
Test the lever and see if I feel any resistance.
Clean the gear that moves the quill up and down. Guessing that is the gear on the cross shaft (part #125 in the diagram).  I had the quill assembly out before... and did not think about cleaning the gears visible inside... 
Reassemble and test

Not sure what else to look for... trying to fix it with the minimal amount of disassembly... My only concern with disassembly is that spring... I will wear safety gear when I get to that part, I do not want to take any chances...


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## Just for fun (Jun 24, 2022)

Sounds like a solid plan to me.


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## paulymorph (Jun 26, 2022)

@wachuko
I have taken the knee crank apart on my mine.  It's actually just a couple of screws and it's out in no time.  From the looks of your vid, my guess is that your shaft is bent just at the end (where it protrudes from the knee).  I took some pics of mine with some measurements and glad to take any more that might help.  I'm sure this is something you could remake yourself if you were inclined to try.  Can't imagine this needs anything other than 1in cold-rolled steel.  It's just a shaft with keys on the ends and a bearing pressed on.

But if it were me, I would first see if I could straighten it in a press if you have access to one.  You should fairly easily be able to take it out and indicate where the bend is on the shaft and then apply pressure, remove and re-measure to check the straightness.  Certainly worth trying...









						Wells 847 Knee crank shaft
					

15 new items added to shared album




					photos.app.goo.gl


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## wachuko (Jun 26, 2022)

@paulymorph, you rock!!  I already order the part...   My concern was having to disassemble the table and all that to get to where I could remove that shaft...

So the only concern would be to make sure the key is in the up position to avoid that falling when reinstalling... cool!!


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## paulymorph (Jun 26, 2022)

wachuko said:


> @paulymorph, you rock!!  I already order the part...   My concern was having to disassemble the table and all that to get to where I could remove that shaft...
> 
> So the only concern would be to make sure the key is in the up position to avoid that falling when reinstalling... cool!!


So funny you mentioned this.  I didn't check but i'm not sure if the keys toward the front align with the keys on the back but maybe they do.  I shoulda checked.  grrr...  However, in disassembling yesterday to take those pics, I pulled it out in about the 4 o'clock position and I dropped the key 5-6 times when trying to put it back in.  .  It just fell in a small dish right below the opening and I was able to retrieve it with one of those little 4 claw spring-loaded grabber tools.  Should also be easy enough to shim the side of the key with a small piece of paper if it's too loose though.


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## wachuko (Jun 27, 2022)

paulymorph said:


> So funny you mentioned this.  I didn't check but i'm not sure if the keys toward the front align with the keys on the back but maybe they do.  I shoulda checked.  grrr...  However, in disassembling yesterday to take those pics, I pulled it out in about the 4 o'clock position and I dropped the key 5-6 times when trying to put it back in.  .  It just fell in a small dish right below the opening and I was able to retrieve it with one of those little 4 claw spring-loaded grabber tools.  Should also be easy enough to shim the side of the key with a small piece of paper if it's too loose though.


Shaft arrives today to Orlando... I will be able to check if the keyways are aligned and plan ahead when removing/replacing.

Thanks again.  I will reach out when I start to tackle this task.


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## wachuko (Jun 28, 2022)

Back in Orlando… shaft arrived.  Keys are opposite of each other…


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## wachuko (Sep 1, 2022)

Not much done... I did bring the shaft extension with me to clean the threads... the first two were giving issues.  Ran a die and got it all clean and working fine.  

Now installed on the shaft and ready to go.  Will see if I can finally tackle this next week...


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## paulymorph (Sep 1, 2022)

wachuko said:


> shaft extension


I'm probably forgetting something but have we discussed this extension previously or is that something you added for the powerfeed?  If it is, how does it keep from unscrewing?  I can't quite make out what the end opposite of the threads looks like from these pics or how it would engage.  Maybe it's just for support and for extending a location to screw to and hold the assembly in place?  

Also, I assume since there's no extended portion that the manual handle could ride on, you decided against having a 'manual' option or is that extension piece serving both purposes?


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## wachuko (Sep 1, 2022)

paulymorph said:


> I'm probably forgetting something but have we discussed this extension previously or is that something you added for the powerfeed?  If it is, how does it keep from unscrewing?  I can't quite make out what the end opposite of the threads looks like from these pics or how it would engage.  Maybe it's just for support and for extending a location to screw to and hold the assembly in place?
> 
> Also, I assume since there's no extended portion that the manual handle could ride on, you decided against having a 'manual' option or is that extension piece serving both purposes?
> View attachment 418983


The extension is to be able to use the handle.  It came with the powerfeed kit.  The extension is not installed in that photo you have there. 

I want to be able to use the handle as well... so the extension will be installed  once I replace the shaft.

All this needs to be secured with roll pins.  I have not installed any because I knew all this was coming out at some point.  So yes, that extension, once installed, is secured with a roll pin...

Makes sense?


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## paulymorph (Sep 9, 2022)

wachuko said:


> Servo Products - Servo 140 Z Axis Knee Power Feed for Wells Index 847 - M-0980-140 (QNMTP27610)


Jamie, I acquired a Servo 150 that had been on a Bridgeport.  From what I can tell, the major difference between it and one that would fit a Wells is in the depth and diameter of the top.  I think this is primarily due to the (i'll call them oversized) dials on a Wells.  I'm still gonna try and retrofit this one that I got to my knee but it may prove to be impossible ultimately.

Could I as you a favor?  Can you shoot me this dimension from yours from this screenshot?  And maybe if you can give me the dimension of the extension that came with it as well.  I'm probably gonna CAD this up so I can visualize what it would take for me to retrofit the one I have.  I'll share if I'm successful.



As you can see on mine, the bevel gear inner bore fits the shaft but the outer diameter isn't compatible with the rest of my hardware.  I assume the bevel gear on yours has different geometry than the one pictured below??  If you have a picture, I would love to see it if you don't mind.


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## wachuko (Sep 9, 2022)

I am in Orlando at the moment… if not urgent, I can take it all apart and measure…. I should be back in Ocala next Friday.

I need to take it all apart anyway, to replace the shaft.

Old photo… so you want me to measure the depth of the cover piece…


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## paulymorph (Sep 9, 2022)

Yes, if you don't mind.  And if it's not too much hassle, I would love to see a pic of the other side of that bevel gear.  It looks way shorter than the one I have.  Just curious to see how it interfaces with this piece.


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## wachuko (Sep 9, 2022)

paulymorph said:


> Yes, if you don't mind.  And if it's not too much hassle, I would love to see a pic of the other side of that bevel gear.  It looks way shorter than the one I have.  Just curious to see how it interfaces with this piece.
> 
> View attachment 419939


That part in your photo is the one I had to modify.  I bored that out so it would fit on the beveled gear….


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## paulymorph (Sep 9, 2022)

ah ha!!  That's what I needed to understand.  And these pics actually tell me the rest of the story that I was missing.  This piece is what gives the top of the motor housing the right larger diameter and depth to match the oversized dial on the Wells.  I'll be fabricating  one of these out of a piece of Delrin I have that closely matches the diameter of the dial.




Thanks again.


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## wachuko (Sep 10, 2022)

I will get you measurements and more photos when I get to Ocala…


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## wachuko (Sep 10, 2022)

Well... if I was going to be recovering in a room in the house... might as well do it in Ocala where I can sneak out and do a few things...

@paulymorph , got here and took the measurements you needed... let me know what else you might need... it is all apart...

The extension:

2.8125" in total




1.9400" just the extension without the threads




The cover that matches the dial... 1.7240"




The thickness of the head of my servo...




On other news... also got the shaft out... I was careful to align the front key down... following the new shaft.  So the key inside would face up, to avoid the key falling off...  But guess what!!??  The old shaft has them in the same side... not opposite...  So I still ended up with the key slot facing down... sigh...




Also going to order that bearing... might as well install a new one while I am at it...


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## wachuko (Sep 11, 2022)

Bearing is a 5204 with snap ring... Ordered!  







Reason for changing all this now is that once installed back, everything needs to be pinned in place... I had not done any of that waiting for the shaft replacement...


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## paulymorph (Sep 12, 2022)

Thanks a bunch.  Sorry I didn't see your posts till this morning.  If you still have it apart would you mind getting the depth of the back of this plate?  


And also if at all possible, could you grab the depth and diameter from the bevel gear, that would be fantastic.  That'll tell me how deep to bore out the original piece.  



Thanks again!


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## wachuko (Sep 12, 2022)

Sure.  Will be right back.

The diameter of the bevel gear... that will be a problem as the two parts are now pinned... but you can get that from the diagram used to modify the factory part...

So here is your measurement for that... this is what I had to bore out of the factory part... 




You can see it here:  http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...ne-ownership-thread.97028/page-15#post-927476

and here: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...ne-ownership-thread.97028/page-15#post-927744

I will get you the other measurements in a few minutes...


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## wachuko (Sep 12, 2022)

Okay, here are the rest of the measurements...  a few more photos as there is also a spacer inside that cover...


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## wachuko (Sep 15, 2022)

Bearing arrived...







I lit a candle to the machinist gods... burned some incense... and a few more things I dare not to share...  I then proceeded to insert the shaft in place and it went in on the first try!! And without the key coming off!!! 

Let's start installing everything back!


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## paulymorph (Sep 16, 2022)

wachuko said:


> And without the key coming off!!!


That is quite a feat.  I can't count how many times I've missed the target, however I just recently discovered a new technique.  It's actually quite easy to reach under the knee and put you hand up where the shaft and gear meet and you can hold the key to the shaft and guide it.  

As for my install, i'll be working on it this weekend.  Got sidetracked with my surface grinder this week...


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## wachuko (Sep 16, 2022)

paulymorph said:


> That is quite a feat.  I can't count how many times I've missed the target, however I just recently discovered a new technique.  It's actually quite easy to reach under the knee and put you hand up where the shaft and gear meet and you can hold the key to the shaft and guide it.
> 
> As for my install, i'll be working on it this weekend.  Got sidetracked with my surface grinder this week...


How the heck do you think I did it!!!??  Hahahahahah... I had the magnetic LED flashlight in there... my hand guiding the sucker... while looking from the front....  I could see just to the point where it goes in... then, the thickness of the shaft, covers the view.  But that technique worked.

On the first try I pushed it in too far.  I could not install the key for the gear... I should have known as it was not flush with the bearing... pulled it out to where it needed to be and proceeded to install everything.




With a straight shaft, now I can remove the extra spacers I placed so the dial could work... Now it sits flush with the cover with minimal clearance... the way is supposed to be!






And yes... I painted the cover... Look, at least I did not paint the whole darn thing... okay!




Now I just need to make the washer/spacer for the front.  .625" hole with a .750 lip so it centers on the handle.... I need to see if I have any material here in Ocala... everything is back in Orlando.




 But it works soooooo smoothly now.  No weeble wobble!

Before:






After:


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## wachuko (Sep 18, 2022)

Feeling cocky after my first parting... decided to tackle the spacer for mounting the handle...




The shaft is 5/8"




It sticks out 3/8"




And I wanted the washer/spacer to have a lip that would center it on the shaft... The hole on the handle is 3/4" in diameter... and I also wanted the bolt to be flush... 

Luckily, I had some material here that could work... not only that... a section of it was turned down to 7/8" so I was able to use a 5C collet to hold it...






I needed the center hole to be 3/8" all the way... Then, on one end, a recess of 3/8" deep x 9/16" for the bolt's head...  Did all that and decided to test my luck a second time and using the parting blade/cutter again... lots and lots of cutting fluid... but first I used the parting blade to get the 3/4" lip I needed... made that, moved it over and began to cut it...




Came out great and no issues... I was stressed there for a bit while doing this step... but it worked as expected.  no flying anything... 




You can see here the spacer going down to 3/4" diameter...




Now I just need to hold it (I think I will need to use the 3 jaw chuck for this next step...) and make a hole 3/8" deep and 5/8" in diameter for the shaft to go in...   well... 3/8" deep + the width of the lip... 




That was all for tonight... will finish that end tomorrow...


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## wachuko (Sep 19, 2022)

Done...








I know that is a lot of unnecessary stick out... I could have made a simple washer/spacer, but I was just practicing as well... 







I will strip the handle and give it a nice coat of paint... will paint the spacer as well to protected from getting rusty...


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