# Another 10" Logan Project + A Question



## Nogoingback

Greetings,

I recently acquired a Logan 200 to replace the 6" Atlas that I've been using for the last few years and
wanted to start a thread on the "rebuild" I plan on doing before I get it up and running.
Despite it's age, it seems
to be in pretty good condition, though of course it has a few issues.  My plan is to clean and lubricate everything,  make repairs and get it running.  I may also add a VFD.

From the S/N, it seems
that this lathe was built during WWII, so I'm  assuming  it was sold to the Army.  This is one of the early
200's, with the separate  post that supports the countershaft assembly.  It's painted a sort of OD green,
which was sprayed over the original gray.

I started the project by picking up a cast countershaft support off eBay: for some reason one didn't come
with the lathe.  Then I decided to fabricate a welded machinery base for the lathe.  I did this for several reasons.
Unlike the later 200's, the support post doesn't "attach" to the lathe itself: it has to be bolted down in the
correct position so that the aft part of the c'shaft assembly rests on it.  I think the intent was that these lathes
would be bolted down to a floor.  Logan changed the design later: I assume because there's no way to leave
the lathe free standing with the unsupported post.  So, the machinery base will allow everything to be bolted
down in their correct locations.  The base weighs about 75-80 lbs, which will add some rigidity and mass,
and will sit on 5 leveling mounts.  The other advantage is that it raises the lathe up to a more
comfortable working height, which  will help with my less than perfect back.


I've already purchased a few small parts from Logan, and  got the parts list and manual while I was at it and
 begun taking apart sub assemblies and cleaning things up.  Which leads, inevitably, to the first problem that needs to be solved.  Last night I started taking apart the headstock: the bearings seem pretty
smooth but sound dry to me so I want to take a closer look  and get things cleaned up.  After removing
the take up nut, spindle gear, key and spacer,  removing the set screws and the bearing cap screws, I tried
to tap the spindle out with a rubber mallet.  It's moving, but it's stubborn, and it seems that the aft (smaller) bearing is frozen to the spindle, so that it's moving with it.  This has resulted in the bull gear
pushing up agains the headstock casting.  I stopped at that point, and have the inner race soaking in Kroil.
Has anyone experienced this, or does anyone have a suggestion on how I might resolve this.  It seems as
though the inner retaining collar is also "stuck" to the spindle.  Thanks!


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## Nogoingback

Well, I took a closer look at the bearing and it appears that it isn't the correct part number.  The bearing in the lathe is a New Departure 3206 which is listed as an angular
contact double row bearing.  The original part is a New Departure 77506 (I believe), which is a deep grove single row ball bearing.  They are, naturally, different widths.
This doesn't answer the question of why the bearing won't come off the shaft since they both have the same ID and OD, but it may provide a clue to what's going on.  Since
the bearings are a different thickness, the inner spacer may have been made up to adjust for that.  Hopefully, it wasn't pressed on.


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## LucknowKen

Hello Nogoingback: Welcome to THM forums.
I wish i could help you with your spindle issue but i am not one of the resident Logan experts.

Good luck!
lk


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## Nogoingback

Thanks LucknowKen.  I appreciate it.


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## Nogoingback

As can be seen, the spindle came out.   I was using a compothane  (plastic) dead blow hammer on it but was still concerned about damaging the threads, so I turned a "button" with a shoulder on it that fitted
into the end of the spindle.  That gave me something to strike with the hammer without endangering the threads.  I used some aluminum bars between the bull gear and the headstock
casting to protect the teeth, and was able to get things moving.

It appears that both bearings need replacing.  If I understand correctly, the double row bearing at the tailstock end is somewhat special in that it has preload "built in", and that it's
available from Logan at huge expense.  Is there an alternative?  I don't mind paying for a quality bearing, but I'd like to know what my options are.  Also, does anyone have any advice
on changing them out?  I've looked at some older posts on this subject, but it's still a little
unclear to me whether a suitable bearing is available except from Logan.

Here are some pics of the lathe with the base that was fab'ed up:


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## Transformer

I have pretty well the same lathe you have. Fortunatly a lot of reconditioning work had been done on it before I got it. I don't think I have the nerve or knowledge to dive into things the way you have. I like the stand you made, presumably you will be reinserting the pan, more heavy lifting. About the only thing I have done with mine is to make new UHMW bushings to replace the rubber bushings of the pulley cover. I also got a new 3 jaw chuck as the jaws on the original one were quite worn and I could not come up with a good way of truing them up. The Shars 3 jaw is much larger than the original 3 jaw. Thanks for sharing, I look forward to following your progress.


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## Chuck K

I'm not sure that I'm following you on this.  Are you concerned that it has the wrong bearings or do you know that the bearings are bad?


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## wa5cab

Nogoingback,

I have no experience with Logans but my understanding just from reading the mail in this forum for the past few years is that at least the spindle head bearing (the double-row one) was made specifically for Logan.  In other words, a special order.


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## Chuck K

If you have a double row New Departure bearing in front,  I would try cleaning and lubing it before I went to the expense of replacing it.  Once you have had the spindle out it's not a big deal to take it out again if you find that the bearing is in fact bad. The rear bearing isn't anything special.   I have had some bearings that I thought were junk that ran silky smooth after servicing them.  On the flipside I currently have an 820 that the bearings were just wasted on.  It sounded rough at high speed and left a rough finish on everything I cut.  That was after I cleaned and lubed them.  Those I had to replace.


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## Nogoingback

After thinking about my options (cleaning, bearing supply house, etc.) I just called Logan and ordered the bearings.  The rear was 30 bucks and the double row was $211.00, which isn't cheap,
but OK with me. Part of the reason I bought a Logan is that after 73 years, I can still get parts for this thing.  (Try that with a Grizzly!)  Of course, that situation will only continue if people actually             buy parts from them, so I feel
there is value in supporting Logan.  I didn't pay much for this lathe, so I figure I'm still ahead and I'll know it has good bearings in it for as long as I'm likely to use it.

They also still sell carriage stops, so I bought one of those  (feeling flush this morning!), a new belt and some small bits that I needed.  Unless I run into a surprise that's everything I need
for now,  (except for a new chuck).

Thanks Transformer.  How do you like the Shars chuck?  I'll be thinking about all the usual suspects like Gator and Bison, but I'd like to hear what people think about what they have.

Chuck and wa5cab, thanks for the input.  I decided not to go through the cleaning routine partly because I really don't want to take it apart more than once, and  because even
if it runs smoothly, it still has to have a fair amount of wear on it after all these years.  Since these bearings can't be adjusted, I just decided I wanted to put in a new one.


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## wa5cab

Probably a wise decision, and probably what I would have done.


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## Chuck K

Yep....If it's a lathe you plan on keeping, new bearings make a lot of sense.  Scott provides a service that other manufacturers don't.


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## Nogoingback

I think it's a keeper, and figured bearings are sort of important (!).


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## wa5cab

Not that it matters here but there is at least one other OEM who still supplies some parts for old US built machines - Clausing Corp - for both Atlas and Clausing lathes and mills.


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## Nogoingback

Yes, I was able to buy a few parts from Clausing for my 6" Atlas.  They do need the Atlas part numbers though if you call them.


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## Nogoingback

Removed the double row bearing from the spindle this evening.  Scott Logan suggested using a punch and a hammer to loosen the nut, so that's what I did after soaking the threads
in Kroil for about a week.  I don't like using brutal methods like that, but I couldn't think of a better way.  The spindle was secured in the bench vise wrapped in a piece
of thick leather.  After preliminary hits which accomplished nothing, a heat gun was used on the nut.  That did the trick, and it came off easily.  Supporting the cast bearing cap
and a few taps with a plastic hammer was all that was required to remove the bearing from the spindle.  I left the bearing shield on the shaft: I believe they are no longer available and
didn't want to damage it.

The photo shows the parts after a preliminary clean up in the solvent tank.  The bearing in the pic is the old one:  after cleaning it with solvent it still feels  rough, so
buying the new bearings was a good call.  It's marked New Departure 5207 on one side, and Number 5507 on the other, which is the Logan p/n.  The new bearings
are SKF's, and are marked as made in the USA.  (The old bearing had a shield on one side but was open on the other: the new bearings are sealed on both sides.)
The nut that secures the bearing was a little mushroomed from banging' on it, so it was cleaned up on the belt sander.  The
nut goes on one way: one side is undercut around the outer edge slightly so that the inner race bears on a shoulder.

The headstock casting has been into the tank as well.  Threaded holes will be chased with a tap and it will go back in for a final cleaning.  The other parts need cleaning as well, and then
hopefully assembly can begin fairly soon!


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## Nogoingback

SPINDLE ASSEMBLY


Headstock assembly began with the first step: pressing the large spindle bearing onto the shaft.  I decided to use a jury rigged drawbar made from all-thread
rather than hammering
it on.  Plastic pipe was used over the spindle, which worked, but was probably not the best solution.  A piece of steel pipe with properly squared off ends and some guide bushings
would probably have been better.





After that the spindle went into the vise and the take up nut tightened by the punch/hammer method.





Both bearings are pressed onto the spindle and are light press fits to the headstock.  The bull gear key (LA-240) was installed next.  One point to keep in mind for both disassembly
and assembly is that this key passes through a slot in the bearing cover (LA-134).  If they aren't lined up properly, the key will damage the cover.  The slot faces up.

The shaft was assembled next into the housing with bull gear, cone assembly, belt,  and retaining collar (LA-131).  The double row bearing was tapped into place until the large snap
ring on it's OD seated into the housing.  I used a 4" diameter steel ring and a block of wood on the bearing cap to tap it in squarely.  Very little force was required.
When I first tightened the three screws that secure the bearing cover there was a little binding in the bearing.  I had carefully cleaned the recess in the headstock and the
face of the cap before assembly so it was a little puzzling.  Changing the order that I
tightened the screws in and bringing them up gradually did the trick, and now the bearings
are perfectly smooth.

The rear bearing was  pressed onto the aft end of the spindle by installing  the retaining collar (LA-130-1) and placing a large socket over the end of the spindle  before before
pressing it into place with the draw bar.  It could be tapped into place with a hammer as long as the other end of the spindle was properly supported.  After that the key for the
spindle gear, and the gear itself were installed and the take up nut at the end of the shaft tightened.  The nut is really a collar with a hole drilled in it for a pin wrench.
I looked online  and never found a wrench in inches that would fit, but it turns out a 40-42mm metric wrench (DIN 1810) works perfectly.  I found
it online with no problem for about 13 bucks.





The only item left is to secure the bull gear to the shaft.  It's keyed and secured with a set screw.  I'm planning on emailing Scott Logan to ask about how much clearance there
should be between it and the cone assembly, unless one of you knows the answer.  Then it's on to back gear assembly!


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## brino

Nice write-up, good clear text and great pictures. 
Thanks for sharing it!

....and best of all you remembered the belt! 

-brino


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## Chuck K

brino said:


> Nice write-up, good clear text and great pictures.
> Thanks for sharing it!
> 
> ....and best of all you remembered the belt!
> 
> -brino


LOL.....I hate to admit  that I've forgotten it....more than once.  I never thought about a clearance spec for the bull gear.  I know if it's too loose it will rattle .


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## Nogoingback

Thanks Brino!


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## Nogoingback

Chuck K said:


> LOL.....I hate to admit  that I've forgotten it....more than once.  I never thought about a clearance spec for the bull gear.  I know if it's too loose it will rattle .



Yeah, I could probably wing it, but I'll try and get a number.  If I get it, I'll post it.


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## Nogoingback

I got an email back from Logan regarding clearance between the cone pulley and bull gear:

"Adjust the Bull Gear close to the Pulley but allow a few thousandths
clearance so they do not bind against each other while running in back gear."

I fiddled around with feeler gauges for a while and in the end set it by feel, just making sure that there was no
binding.


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## Al 1

Try this supplier for bearings    ( The big bearing store )  I have purchased various bearings and never had a problem.   Al


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## Nogoingback

Thanks Al.  I'll keep those guys in mind.


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## Nogoingback

One Advantage Of Owning A 10" Lathe:





Decided to do some parts cleaning today and brought the bed up out of the basement to clean it in the solvent tank.

Also took apart the drive box and the brackets that support the motor.  The "bench stand" (bracket that the motor support pivots off) casting was broken
when I bought the lathe, so a replacement was found on eBay.  The motor support bracket is secured with a large pin that, after the Kroil treatment was
easily drifted out.  Apart from needing a couple of fasteners, the drive box was ship shape and only needed cleaning.  I'll tackle the drive box pulleys and their
bushings next.


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## Nogoingback

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## tq60

Belt loading likely pulls them one direction. 

Reverse them as one side is like new...

You could stretch an o - ring over the shaft to slide against the bushing to allow oil to pool.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk


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## Nogoingback

Good thought.  I'll go measure and see where the wear is.  I considered just going with them as they are, since if I want to change them later
the assembly comes apart easily.


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## Chuck K

It's pretty simple to change the bushings.... and the shaft for that matter. I've changed them on a few logans. It makes the machine run a little smoother.  That shaft seems to get neglected on a lot of machines. It only takes a second to shoot a little oil in the cups.


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## CluelessNewB

The bushings on my 820 were much worse than yours!   I replaced both the shaft and the bushings.   I believe the total cost for all 4 bushings was less that $10 from McMaster-Carr.


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## TomKro

As others have mentioned, those bushings are inexpensive. 

The bushings are quite a tight fit in those sleeves.  I had no luck with an arbor press, and had to locate a hydraulic press to get them in.  Also, you may have to resize the bushing inside diameter after you press them in. 

Very nice work, on both the lathe and the stand.


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## Nogoingback

CluelessNewB said:


> The bushings on my 820 were much worse than yours!   I replaced both the shaft and the bushings.   I believe the total cost for all 4 bushings was less that $10 from McMaster-Carr.





Chuck K said:


> It's pretty simple to change the bushings.... and the shaft for that matter. I've changed them on a few logans. It makes the machine run a little smoother.  That shaft seems to get neglected on a lot of machines. It only takes a second to shoot a little oil in the cups.



The shaft on mine looks like it's a little worn, but measures up at pretty much .750.   It looks like the bushings are 1.0" OD bushings.  Did you guys have to ream them to fit the shaft, or would they just press in
and be good to go?  What material would I look for to replace the shaft, if I decided to do it? 

As for oiling, I'm with you on this Chuck: I oil each time I use the lathe, and sometimes more than once during a job.


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## Nogoingback

TomKro said:


> As others have mentioned, those bushings are inexpensive.
> 
> The bushings are quite a tight fit in those sleeves.  I had no luck with an arbor press, and had to locate a hydraulic press to get them in.  Also, you may have to resize the bushing inside diameter after you press them in.
> 
> Very nice work, on both the lathe and the stand.



Thanks Tom.  I appreciate it.

Did you buy your bushings from someone like McMaster-Carr also, or from Logan?  Did you also change the shaft on yours?  I don't have any sort of press in my shop, so I'd have to 
find one.  I imagine they have one in the shops at the place I work.


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## CluelessNewB

I purchased mine from McMaster-Carr, they are standard items, they may even have them at a decent hardware store.   Yes I did need to ream them just a bit.   At the time I did not have a press.  I removed and replaced using an improvised set of tools, threaded rod, sockets, large washers.  It was about 6 years ago so I don't remember the exact details.  A press would be much easier.


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## Nogoingback

Now that I think of it, I saw some bronze bushings at my hardware store the other day.  I'll go have a look.


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## TomKro

Nogoingback: Sorry, I didn't notice your post yesterday.

  Both the bushings and the shaft came from McMaster's.  I believe the ground shaft was ordered to the exact size, so it didn't even need to be trimmed. 

  Before I pressed the bushings in, they fit the shaft perfectly, but had to be opened up a little once they were pressed in.  I didn't have a reamer, so I ended up doing it with sandpaper wrapped around a drill bit , with a portable drill, operated horizontally.  I had to let the sleeve spin in my hand while the drill was turning.  Sort of a silly method, and took way too long, bit it did work.  There's a picture about half way thru my post on my Logan 200 rehab.  Probably best to get the proper tool.  

TomKro


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## Nogoingback

Thanks Tom.  I think you guys are talking me into changing out those bushings.


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## Chuck K

As others have said...you'll probably have to ream the bushings after you press them in.  I have used plain old 1018 that I polished a little for shaft material.


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## Nogoingback

Thanks for the reply Chuck.  I've been out of town, but I'll check MSC or McMaster and see what they've got.  I have an adjustable reamer that might be the right size:
I'll have to check.


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## Nogoingback

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## Nogoingback

A 6" vise is overkill for a RF45 style mill. A 4" is more appropiate for that size mill & IMO 5" max. I have a 5" GMT vise on my PM45 & it's slightly too big. Not enough Y axis travel to make use of the 5" full capacity. Better to save your money rather than getting something too big & most importantly the weight. I take my vise of the table quite often, a 6" is still light enough for me to be carried by hand but I'm glad I have a 5". I also have a 4" vise as well. I prefer the 5" though.

But those GMT 6" Premium vises are pretty nice. I'd love to have one but don't need one on my current mill. But if you plan on upgrading to a full size knee mill in the future than the 6" will be perfect.


Here's what the 5" looks like on my mill.




I couldn't even complete this cut without my bellows & DRO scale getting in the way. Not enough Y travel & the 5" vise is not even maxed out.




Here's what a 6" vise looks like on another PM45 (gt40's)
View attachment 253544


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## T. J.

Looking good!  I see you have a Jacobs headstock chuck.  I had one of those for the 6" Atlas lathe that I used to own.  It was a very handy piece of tooling.


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## Nogoingback

Thanks T.J.  I agree on the chuck.  The bore on this one is almost the same as my spindle bore, so I'll be able to run
stock up to 3/4" all the way through.  This lathe actually came with one in a smaller size, but it's got a broken
sleeve that has to be replaced, so it needs a rebuild before it can be used.  Between the two of them I'll have a
useful range of sizes.


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## T. J.

Funny coincidence: I just came across one on eBay for a decent price and snatched it up. It's a Jacobs 58B with a 1/8-5/8" capacity. I think that's the smaller of the two that Jacobs made for the 1-1/2"-8 tpi spindle.


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## Nogoingback

You're right, it is the smaller chuck.    The 59B, which is what I bought has a range of 3/16 to 3/4.

As you know the 56B in 1-10 thread was what the Atlas used.  The old Jacobs catalog
also lists a 55B in a 1-8 thread.


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## Nogoingback

Chuck K said:


> It's pretty simple to change the bushings.... and the shaft for that matter. I've changed them on a few logans. It makes the machine run a little smoother.  That shaft seems to get neglected on a lot of machines. It only takes a second to shoot a little oil in the cups.





CluelessNewB said:


> The bushings on my 820 were much worse than yours!   I replaced both the shaft and the bushings.   I believe the total cost for all 4 bushings was less that $10 from McMaster-Carr.



S0, when you guys changed the shafts, how hard was it to get the pulley off.  I took out the set screws and it resisted tapping it out.  Will I need to press it off, or can I just heat the pulley and
tap it out?


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## CluelessNewB

Before you do any pressing or tapping make sure there isn't a second set screw under the first.  Mine had stacked set screws!


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## Nogoingback

Thanks for the tip. I checked.  Single set screws on mine.

How did you get your shaft off?


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## CluelessNewB

I cleaned up the shaft aggressively to remove burrs and crud with emery cloth and a file and sprayed with Kroil and used a homemade puller made with wood and threaded rod.  The large pulley came off real easy, the cone pulley wasn't all that bad once it started to move.  I knew I would be replacing the shaft so my big concern was not damaging the pulleys.  Shafts are cheap, pulleys not so much.


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## Chuck K

Those can be tough some times.  Just take care not to damage the pulley.  I have used a press, pullers....whatever works.


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## Nogoingback

OK, thank you  Chuck and Clueless.  I'll start with a good soaking in Kroil, and figure out what to do after that.


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## Nogoingback

A 6" vise is overkill for a RF45 style mill. A 4" is more appropiate for that size mill & IMO 5" max. I have a 5" GMT vise on my PM45 & it's slightly too big. Not enough Y axis travel to make use of the 5" full capacity. Better to save your money rather than getting something too big & most importantly the weight. I take my vise of the table quite often, a 6" is still light enough for me to be carried by hand but I'm glad I have a 5". I also have a 4" vise as well. I prefer the 5" though.

But those GMT 6" Premium vises are pretty nice. I'd love to have one but don't need one on my current mill. But if you plan on upgrading to a full size knee mill in the future than the 6" will be perfect.


Here's what the 5" looks like on my mill.




I couldn't even complete this cut without my bellows & DRO scale getting in the way. Not enough Y travel & the 5" vise is not even maxed out.




Here's what a 6" vise looks like on another PM45 (gt40's)
View attachment 253544


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## TomKro

Those bushings look good.  I'll have to remember to try the chamfer trick next time I try pressing bushings in.  Probably didn't help that my arbor press needed a more rigid stand.   Have to bolt mine down to a better bench - doesn't do much good right now on the basement floor. 

Nice idea using a drill chuck on the spindle.  I haven't seen any on e-bay with 1-1/2 inch adapters to mate directly with the spindle, and I didn't realize they're set up with a thru hole.  Saw a few on e-bay with a 3MT mount, but a thru hole would be a lot better.   Is there a special name for that type of adapter?


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## Nogoingback

A 6" vise is overkill for a RF45 style mill. A 4" is more appropiate for that size mill & IMO 5" max. I have a 5" GMT vise on my PM45 & it's slightly too big. Not enough Y axis travel to make use of the 5" full capacity. Better to save your money rather than getting something too big & most importantly the weight. I take my vise of the table quite often, a 6" is still light enough for me to be carried by hand but I'm glad I have a 5". I also have a 4" vise as well. I prefer the 5" though.

But those GMT 6" Premium vises are pretty nice. I'd love to have one but don't need one on my current mill. But if you plan on upgrading to a full size knee mill in the future than the 6" will be perfect.


Here's what the 5" looks like on my mill.




I couldn't even complete this cut without my bellows & DRO scale getting in the way. Not enough Y travel & the 5" vise is not even maxed out.




Here's what a 6" vise looks like on another PM45 (gt40's)
View attachment 253544


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## RonRock

Nogoingback said:


> SPINDLE ASSEMBLY
> 
> 
> 
> I looked online  and never found a wrench in inches that would fit, but as it turns out a 40-42mm metric wrench (DIN 1810) works perfectly.  I found
> it online with no problem for about 13 bucks.
> 
> 
> View attachment 224304



Can you tell me where to get that spanner?

I'm doing my 1937 right now and it looks like I need several spanners. Anybody know how many and what sizes I need? I'm going through the whole machine, Headstock, QCGB, Tailstock, etc.


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## Nogoingback

I bought  the tool online from J.W. Winco, Inc.   Description was an A54932 DIN 1810-40-42-B Hook Wrench.  Price was $12.14.

So far, that's the only special tool I've used that I can think of.  Everything else that I've used has been normal shop tools.  What other tools are you thinking of?


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## wa5cab

Actually, Jacobs made five of what they called "Headstock Chucks".  The 58B and 59B are both larger sized chucks with 1-1/2"-8 threads.  The 58B has a clamping range of 1/8" to 5/8" and the 59B 3/16" to 3/4".  The smaller size chucks are the 55B with 1"-8 threads and the 56B with 1"-10.  They both have a clamping range of 1/16" to 17/32".  The fifth one is the 34VR with a clamping range of 3/16" to 9/16", The mounting method is simply shown as "Special".  I don't know what it was for.  All of these chucks have a through hole slightly larger in diameter than their maximum clamping size.


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## RonRock

Nogoingback said:


> I bought  the tool online from J.W. Winco, Inc.   Description was an A54932 DIN 1810-40-42-B Hook Wrench.  Price was $12.14.
> 
> So far, that's the only special tool I've used that I can think of.  Everything else that I've used has been normal shop tools.  What other tools are you thinking of?




  Thank you. I'll order one.

I "should" have and wish I would have had and used a spanner for the nut on the end of the Tailstock. I didn't have one so used a pin in the hole and tapped it with a hammer. Didn't take much to break it loose, but hogged out the hole in the process.

I haven't started disassembly of my Headstock or Center Carriage yet. Not sure what I will need. But I'd rather be prepared than faced with not having the right tool for the job.


Sorry about that last post. Getting used to the workings of this forum. Glad you took the time to look and reply. 

Appreciate the help.


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## Nogoingback

No problem at all.  One of the nicer aspects of this forum is that people help each other out.

Your tailstock must be different than mine: the nut on mine is large and hex shaped.  I've got my complete carriage assembly in pieces
right now: the only part that needed an unusual tool is the LA-254 bushing on the compound.  It also was drilled for a pin wrench.
I just grabbed it in my bench vice (with soft jaws that didn't mar the OD), and popped it loose.  Other than that, everything came apart
with the usual tools.

If you decide to change headstock bearings and have any questions, be sure to ask and I"ll try and help.  You can PM me if you want to.
There are also instructions published by Scott Logan on how to adjust the back gears: I don't know if they're downloaded anywhere on
this site, but they are available and very useful when you install the back gear shaft into the headstock.


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## RonRock

Here is my Tailstock.


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## Nogoingback

Quite different than mine.  Probably worth it to find the right spanner for that, I would think.  What serial number is your lathe?, I'm curious.
Nice looking paint job, by the way.


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## RonRock

SN is 84016.

Thank you. The paint job has been way more work than expected. I don't want to completely derail your thread, but I will say that I will never use Alkyd Enamel again! Not the type of paint that I am familiar with.


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## Nogoingback

So, yours is an 11 inch?  Looks like it was built in 1967.


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## wa5cab

Nogoingback said:


> I bought  the tool online from J.W. Winco, Inc.   Description was an A54932 DIN 1810-40-42-B Hook Wrench.



There are four common types (or two types each of which come in two types) of these special tools, pin spanners (wrenches) and hook spanners (wrenches).  And each comes in either fixed (only fits one diameter of nut) and adjustable (fits a diameter range).  In the US, the most common manufacturers are (or were before 2008) Williams (now belongs to SnapOn) and Armstrong.  There are also a number of less common types, like face spanners, and etc.


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## RandyM

RonRock said:


> Thank you. I'll order one.
> 
> I "should" have and wish I would have had and used a spanner for the nut on the end of the Tailstock. I didn't have one so used a pin in the hole and tapped it with a hammer. Didn't take much to break it loose, but hogged out the hole in the process.
> 
> I haven't started disassembly of my Headstock or Center Carriage yet. Not sure what I will need. But I'd rather be prepared than faced with not having the right tool for the job.
> 
> 
> *Sorry about that last post*. Getting used to the workings of this forum. Glad you took the time to look and reply.
> 
> Appreciate the help.



Fixed it for ya.


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## T. J.

On the subject of Jacobs headstock chucks, this one is on eBay now. It's a 20N ball bearing chuck with 1-1/2  - 8 threads. It has a 3/8 - 1" capacity. This is the first one of these I've seen.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=332133342076&globalID=EBAY-US

I have no affiliation with this seller, just thought y'all might be interested.


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## wa5cab

I've never seen one, either.  Not listed in a Jacobs catalog that I have.  It only shows a 5JT.


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## Nogoingback

A 6" vise is overkill for a RF45 style mill. A 4" is more appropiate for that size mill & IMO 5" max. I have a 5" GMT vise on my PM45 & it's slightly too big. Not enough Y axis travel to make use of the 5" full capacity. Better to save your money rather than getting something too big & most importantly the weight. I take my vise of the table quite often, a 6" is still light enough for me to be carried by hand but I'm glad I have a 5". I also have a 4" vise as well. I prefer the 5" though.

But those GMT 6" Premium vises are pretty nice. I'd love to have one but don't need one on my current mill. But if you plan on upgrading to a full size knee mill in the future than the 6" will be perfect.


Here's what the 5" looks like on my mill.




I couldn't even complete this cut without my bellows & DRO scale getting in the way. Not enough Y travel & the 5" vise is not even maxed out.




Here's what a 6" vise looks like on another PM45 (gt40's)
View attachment 253544


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## Kernbigo

If you don't have adjustable spiral reamers for the ID, your turn the od tell you have a thumb press and than you green loctite on the od. This way the ID does not distort and you don't have to do any reaming.


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## Nogoingback

Thanks for the suggestion Kernbigo.  My only concern about turning the OD is that the replacement shaft  is already .001 under the original.  If I take off more, then my pulleys might be pretty
sloppy, even with green loctite. I don't have an adjustable reamer of the correct size, but I do know a local machinist that does little jobs like that for me cheaply.  If I need to ream it, I'll probably
just have him do it.  If I can use a boring bar, I'll do it on the Atlas.  I think before I do anything
I'll press the pulley off the old shaft and see how it fits to the new one.


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## Nogoingback

MORE PROGRESS:


I've sorted the problem I had with the front gib so the carriage is installed and the gibs adjusted up.  When I slide the carriage along the ways, the effort required doesn't change much as it gets
close to the headstock: more evidence that my ways aren't too badly worn.  I'm also enjoying the completely slop-free cross feed now that the new shaft and nut are installed.

Also installed the belt guard.  When the eBay sourced bench stand arrived, it didn't have one of the holes required for mounting the belt guard so it was mounted in place, marked and removed for
drilling.  With a jobber length drill, there wasn't enough room in my bench style DP with the table all the way down.  A screw machine length drill did the job (just).  Might need to give some thought
to a bigger drill press at some point!

Went ahead and pressed a new bronze bushing in for the compound: the old one was badly worn.  The steel bush that it presses into is an inch long, but the original bushing was only .5"
in length.  To give it more support, I bought a part .750 long.  Popped the bushing into the freezer, and, when my wife wasn't looking, heated the steel part up in the toaster oven before pressing them together.  The bushing is McMaster Carr part number 6391K176.





All that was left on the carriage  was to was to re-assemble the compound and add the QCTP.


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## Nogoingback

APRON ASSEMBLY:

The pile of parts on the workbench is shrinking as the number of bits on the lathe increases.  Assembled the apron this evening after cleaning up the parts and pressing new bushings
into the idler shift gear and the bracket that supports the miter gear.  The lower half nut showed more wear than the upper, so they were reversed.  The assembly that supports them, which
is riveted together, was loose, so I peened the rivets before assembling them. The only difficulty  experienced was assembling the miter gear bracket.  Secured with a bolt that passes
through the apron, the bracketed miter gear engages the the LA-188 miter gear. Aligning them was difficult.  As many times as I tried, I couldn't adjust them properly.  Each time I
tried to tighten the bolt, the bracket would rotate, jamming the gears.  It also seemed as though it needed a shim between the bracket and the back side of the apron, even though it didn't
have one when it came apart. (The new bushing may have changed the clearance.). The problem was solved when I remembered a trick for keeping a tool post from rotating: a piece of brown
paper bag between the parts.  After slipping a piece between the apron and the bracket, it adjusted up perfectly on the first try!

This pic shows the location of the brown paper "shim".





And the result:


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## Nogoingback

JUST ABOUT THERE:





The change gear/lead screw assembly was next in line for the solvent tank.  I optimistically figured I'd clean it all up and have it on the lathe in one night: naturally, it didn't work out that way.  Taking it
apart showed that several pieces were missing and a bent bolt needed replacement.  A trip to the hardware store and another call to Logan solved  those problems and it went together this afternoon.  My
stack of change gears is almost complete: only one gear is missing, so I'll keep an eye out on eBay for a replacement.   Also sourced a used Mitsubishi VFD off eBay as well: I went with a larger capacity unit
so that it can be used in the future with a bigger motor if needed.  This one is good for 5 amps, while the motor on the Logan is rated at 1.7.





All that's left is to finish up assembly of the drive box and wire it up.   Looking forward to making some chips with this thing, instead of just working on it!


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## Mister Ed

Looking very nice. What gear(s) are you looking for? I have a couple extras that I did not let go with my old lathe.


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## Nogoingback

Mister Ed said:


> Looking very nice. What gear(s) are you looking for? I have a couple extras that I did not let go with my old lathe.



The only one missing is a 36 tooth change gear.  If you happen to have one in good shape that you'll let go, please PM me.


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## Mister Ed

I just went out and checked, I only have a 48, 56, & 72 that were extras.


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## Nogoingback

Mister Ed said:


> I just went out and checked, I only have a 48, 56, & 72 that were extras.



Thank you for checking Ed.  I appreciate it.


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## Silverbullet

Nogoingback said:


> So, yours is an 11 inch?  Looks like it was built in 1967.


Not sure its 11" dont think they made the in the small diameter headstock. Most 11" models I know of have the 2 1/4 -8 thread , and 5 c collets fit them also. Oh I have one of the jacob headstock chucks with the 1 1/2" -8 threads. Pretty sure its a 20 n size so 1" is the largest dia. I now have taps and dies for both . Ill be making adaptors for the two sizes to fit my logan.  Should make it easier then single pointing to a corner or under cut. 
Nice job on your lathe she,ll be like brand new. If I ever get my butt in gear I really should do mine . Shes done tons of work and deserves whole new life for another fifty years. I really like the paint job and color. It fits so much better then blue like a 64 buick. Nice job be proud you deserve it.


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## Nogoingback

Hmmm...   The list of of lathes at http://www.lathe.com/models.htm indicates that a Model 1937 is an 11" lathe with the large spindle bore.  And you're right, the 10's and 9's had the 1 1/2-8 threads.


Thanks for the comments.  This lathe turned out to be a lot more work (and $$$) than I anticipated, and if I had known I probably would have held out for a different machine.  But, in this area
they don't come up all that often and I wanted a Logan, so it's all good.


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## Nogoingback

Bent up and painted a simple backsplash from sheet steel to keep some of the oil and chips off the floor.  It's held with screws to the rim of the chip pan at the bottom, and
rubber mounted at the top.





Also made a bracket for the VFD to mount to the foundation wall next to the breaker box.  The holes at the bottom are for standard electrical fittings:
a strain relief for the power cord on the input side, and flex conduit for the wires to the lathe.


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## TomKro

That chip guard looks real nice.    I'm planning to build out my "light bar" a little bit (toward the spindle an inch or so) to have room to extend a guard inward and clear the motor.  Really good idea to use a rubber cushion. 

Nice clean finish on the VFD mount also.


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## Nogoingback

Thanks Tom.  I have to confess I'm not responsible for the finish. I had a batch of parts that needed painting (including non-lathe stuff), so it all went
to the powder painter.  I'm also lucky: there's a sheet metal shop where I work, and they let me use the brake any time I want.

What's your light bar?


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## Chuck K

Nogoingback said:


> Bent up and painted a simple backsplash from sheet steel to keep some of the oil and chips off the floor.  It's held with screws to the rim of the chip pan at the bottom, and
> rubber mounted at the top.
> Nice work. I've often wondered why the old lathes never had back splashes.  I have one that fits on the chip pan of my logan.  Doesn't look near that nice though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also made a bracket for the VFD to mount to the foundation wall next to the breaker box.  The holes at the bottom are for standard electrical fittings:
> a strain relief for the power cord on the input side, and flex conduit for the wires to the lathe.


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## TomKro

My "light bar" is only a light support bar.  It's a 20 inch long piece of 1 x 1 angle iron that bolts to the two unused bosses on the underside of the drive box frame.  It's positioned parallel to the bed.  Hopefully it will end up as a "light and chip guard support bar". 

With a little luck, a few well placed cushions might help avoid a nasty rattle.


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## Nogoingback

Sounds good.  I never thought to use those bosses on the drive box:  the holes for my bracket were already there.  Your setup would be a bit more rigid I 
would think.


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## Nogoingback

GENTLEMEN: START YOUR ENGINES





A new 220V single phase outlet, a enjoyable session of concrete drilling  ,  a few trips to the hardware store and the VFD was mounted to the foundation wall next to the lathe and wired up.  Programming the Mitsubishi
unit turned out to be fairly easy: I found the manual online and figured out the basic settings without too much trouble.  Because the VFD was purchased used, I checked a number of settings to see how the
previous owner had it programmed and had no problems.   Instead of wiring in an on/off switch on the input side, I just used a plug and a power cord.  Motor direction turned out correct the first time.  Success!

One question I have is what minimum and maximum frequencies you guys are using.  I left the upper frequency at 60hz and the bottom at 30hz.  I was under the impression that too slow a speed
can over heat the motor.  I might run the math and see how the speeds come out at different belt settings and see how much range I need.  Suggestions?


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## Mister Ed

What vintage is the motor? When I had the motor from my "new" lathe in getting new leads installed, the tech warned me not to very too far off 60hz. But, I have (I believe) the original 1963 era motor ... so old technology. Right or wrong, it made sense, so I have the VFD locked at 60hz. Not an issue since I have the reaves drive.

I tell you what though, I sure find myself changing speeds much more now that I don't have to stop and change the belts around. Changing the flat belt was no big deal, but for some reason I never liked changing the V belt pulley.


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## Nogoingback

The motor is a NOS Dayton model 31TT08 that I bought on eBay.  I checked before I bought it: that model has VFD rated windings in it, so I think I'm OK.  I did run the math last night on speeds
at 55, 50, 45, 40 and 30 Hz.  At 30 Hz I'm just duplicating speeds available at different belt settings, so I threw those out and made up a table of numbers that will live next to the lathe for reference.
I also discovered that I get a fair amount of vibration in the lathe at 60 Hz, but if I back it off to about 57 Hz it largely goes away, so I guess that will be the top end of the range for me. 

Is the reason you don't change the V belt due to being tight on the pulleys?


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## Mister Ed

Nogoingback said:


> Is the reason you don't change the V belt due to being tight on the pulleys?


That and a bit of laziness I guess. And maybe just how I had things laid out as well.
It sounds like you have things covered pretty well with speeds. Between the three flat belt ratios and tweaking the VFD, you should have a bunch of options.


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## Nogoingback

Yup, I should have enough speeds with this thing.  The LAST task before I can make some chips is to finish up the drive box by pressing a new shaft
into the countershaft pulley and assembling it all up. Can't wait...


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## Nogoingback

FIRST CHIPS, BUT...




Gave the lathe it's first sea trials today by turning some scrap pieces of aluminum and steel.  Lathe is very smooth and quiet, and the surface
finish on the parts was good.  But, when the flat belt is on the center pulley, it slips off under power.  The pulleys seem aligned pretty well, but I'm thinking
it's an alignment problem anyway.  Anyone experience this before?  I'm also unsure of how tight the flat belt should be.

Also, when I switch the v-belt from one pulley to the other, the tension changes enough
that I'll need to adjust it each time.  I assumed that this wouldn't be needed.  Is this 
normal?


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## wa5cab

While I can't speak to this particular make and model of lathe, in general, machine manufacturers carefully calculate the PD of the various steps of both pulleys so that each step needs the same belt length.  If that isn't the case here, then my guess would be that one of the two pulleys (usually the motor one) isn't OEM.  On the flat belt problem, I've no suggestions.


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## CluelessNewB

On my Logan 820 I don't need to change the tension when moving the motor belt from one pulley to the other.  

As you probably already know the upper belt cover also acts as the mechanism to tension the flat belts.   Opening the lid loosens the belt.  Adjustment of  "LA-366" is important.  I have mine adjusted so that the lid sits is about 1/8" above the rubber lid stops.  If I adjust it so that the lid is actually resting on the rubber lid stops the flat belt will slip.  The rubber lid stops that I have are generic ones from the hardware store, they may be a bit thinner than the originals (which were missing from my lathe).  I have a composite flat belt with metal clips.  If I do push the lathe real hard I can make the flat belts slip, which is probably a good thing at least for me.      

When I got my 820 it did not come with the rear support leg,  mine is the older pipe style.  The length of this leg is also critical to getting everything right.


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## Mister Ed

For the flat belt, I would try and bring the right side of rear pulley shaft in a smidge. I think doing that will make the flat belt want to ride to the right (it shouldn't take much). When I had my 200, I had the newer style rear shaft without the adjusters ... never really had an issue with the flat belt (other than slipping).

I did have a similar issue with the motor belt, after I replaced the motor (original pulleys). I really think that is more a trial and error of motor positioning to find a sweet spot that works for both pulleys. I remember beating myself over the head on that issue. With the old motor the belt was easy to flip from one pulley to another, I never did get the same result with the new motor.


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## Nogoingback

wa5cab said:


> While I can't speak to this particular make and model of lathe, in general, machine manufacturers carefully calculate the PD of the various steps of both pulleys so that each step needs the same belt length.  If that isn't the case here, then my guess would be that one of the two pulleys (usually the motor one) isn't OEM.  On the flat belt problem, I've no suggestions.



It's a bit of a mystery, since I bought the motor pulley from Logan, and the countershaft pulley has the correct Logan part number on it.  I might give Logan a call on this one.


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## Nogoingback

CluelessNewB said:


> On my Logan 820 I don't need to change the tension when moving the motor belt from one pulley to the other.
> 
> As you probably already know the upper belt cover also acts as the mechanism to tension the flat belts.   Opening the lid loosens the belt.  Adjustment of  "LA-366" is important.  I have mine adjusted so that the lid sits is about 1/8" above the rubber lid stops.  If I adjust it so that the lid is actually resting on the rubber lid stops the flat belt will slip.  The rubber lid stops that I have a generic ones from the hardware store, they may be a bit thinner than the originals (which were missing from my lathe).  I have a composite flat belt with metal clips.  If I do push the lathe real hard I can make the flat belts slip, which is probably a good thing at least for me.
> 
> When I got my 820 it did not come with the rear support leg,  mine is the older pipe style.  The length of this leg is also critical to getting everything right.
> 
> View attachment 235132



It sounds like you have more tension on your belt than I set up with mine.  I had no idea how to do it, so I just winged it and gave it what seemed to be a reasonable amount of tension.  I could try to tighten
things up a bit and try again.


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## Nogoingback

Mister Ed said:


> For the flat belt, I would try and bring the right side of rear pulley shaft in a smidge. I think doing that will make the flat belt want to ride to the right (it shouldn't take much). When I had my 200, I had the newer style rear shaft without the adjusters ... never really had an issue with the flat belt (other than slipping).
> 
> I did have a similar issue with the motor belt, after I replaced the motor (original pulleys). I really think that is more a trial and error of motor positioning to find a sweet spot that works for both pulleys. I remember beating myself over the head on that issue. With the old motor the belt was easy to flip from one pulley to another, I never did get the same result with the new motor.



Since my lathe has the countershaft adjusters, I did try adjusting that last night to make sure the shafts are parallel.  Belt is brand new from Logan, and I made sure the pulleys were clean before I started it up.
I might try a bit more belt tension.

As far a the v-belt goes, the tension difference between the two pulleys is pretty substantial.   I'm going to call Logan and see what Scott says.


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## TomKro

As another point of reference, I also noticed that the adjusting screw on the cover of my lathe is set low enough that the cover has to be pushed down a tad to actually make contact with the bumper stops.  I reached under the drive box to check the belt tension (motor off), and it does not appear to be especially tight. 

I'm using a 3/4 inch wide serpentine belt and haven't noticed any slipping, but I may not be driving very hard as I'm still using a lantern tool post with a pretty small cutting tool.


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## Nogoingback

TomKro said:


> As another point of reference, I also noticed that the adjusting screw on the cover of my lathe is set low enough that the cover has to be pushed down a tad to actually make contact with the bumper stops.  I reached under the drive box to check the belt tension (motor off), and it does not appear to be especially tight.
> 
> I'm using a 3/4 inch wide serpentine belt and haven't noticed any slipping, but I may not be driving very hard as I'm still using a lantern tool post with a pretty small cutting tool.



I would imagine the serpentine belt is rubber, so probably less likely to slip.  The Logan belt I installed is quite thin (about .050 thick) and glued together.  Not sure how it's made, but it doesn't
seem as "grippy" as a a pure rubber belt, so it may be more subject to slip.  I called Scott Logan this morning.  He thought I had a pulley alignment problem, though he did suggest a bit more belt
tension.  When I asked him how to tension the belt, he said only as tight as needed to avoid slip.    I went back and tinkered with the lathe some more:  made sure that the countershaft was
parallel to the spindle and the pulleys are in line.  I also upped the belt tension and rechecked my v-belt alignment.  It seems OK now, and I was able to do some more tests.  I also asked about the
difference in motor pulley tension.  He indicated that there were two countershaft pulleys for the 10" Logan, though he wasn't sure exactly when the changeover occurred.  My parts list showed
the early Model 200's had my pulley (LA-141), and the 210's had a different one.  Later, they standardized on one part.  What I did find is that mine is a larger OD than the diameter that Scott gave
me over the phone, which explains why mine adjusts up as it does.  So, it appears that my lathe may have also had a different motor pulley than the one that Scott sells.  Had no information
about that, and only has dimensions for one part.  So, if I change the belt position, I'll just have to re-adjust the tension.  No big deal, really.

So it appears that I have a working lathe.  I'd call this job finished, except I have to machine the backplate and mount the Bison 4-jaw I bought for it.  Then it will really be done.  But, I do want to thank
all of you that contributed by giving me advice and encouragement during this job.  I really appreciate all the help you guys have given me.


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## Nogoingback

DONE:


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