# Tired of cranking the Z



## drs23 (Apr 22, 2014)

...so I've been looking into power feeds like I have on the X. The prices seem to be all over the map. Enco's having what they're calling a "Blow Out Sale" so I went and checked them out. They want $1485 for the same dadgum thing! (at least it looks identical other than the name sticker) I found one for $320 shipped from CDCO Machinery. It's listed at 150 lbs. like many others I've looked at. It appears to be a rebadged Align like I have on the X. My concern is it's listed for 150 lbs. duty but all I've found so far have been as well.

Is this what you guys with power Zs have used? Or something similar.


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## Ray C (Apr 22, 2014)

drs23 said:


> ...so I've been looking into power feeds like I have on the X. The prices seem to be all over the map. Enco's having what they're calling a "Blow Out Sale" so I went and checked them out. They want $1485 for the same dadgum thing! (at least it looks identical other than the name sticker) I found one for $320 shipped from CDCO Machinery. It's listed at 150 lbs. like many others I've looked at. It appears to be a rebadged Align like I have on the X. My concern is it's listed for 150 lbs. duty but all I've found so far have been as well.
> 
> Is this what you guys with power Zs have used? Or something similar.




Yeah, what he said... Let me know when you find a high-torque, slow speed motor that doesn't cost more than the mill.  I'm really tired of the hand crank on my PM45.  Yeah, I know, lots of different attachments out there but none are anywhere near close to "plug and play" and I don't have the time for another project.

Ray


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## darkzero (Apr 22, 2014)

I'm assuming for a BP or similar knee mill?

Here's a cheaper solution to use with a drill. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridgeport-...=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item460ced72c0

Adam talks about it in a video below, says they are slightly oversized to fit a 1/2 drill chuck properly but work fine. You could probably easily make your own though. I would also rather get a dedicated power feed for it but wow, those are pricey for BPs.


[video=youtube_share;ogQDmUCJc34]http://youtu.be/ogQDmUCJc34?t=9m53s[/video]


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## JimDawson (Apr 22, 2014)

In my opinion Servo brand is the only way to go.  Cheap, no, but they work.  I have had problems with the Servo knockoffs.


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## darkzero (Apr 22, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> In my opinion Servo brand is the only way to go.



+1

That's what I have heard also. Shars carries the ALGS brand. I have heard of these failing over time. Also hear of the main gear stripping but that's more of a user error & cause it's plastic. I don't have a BP/knee mill but my mill came with a ALSGS power feed. Mine hasn't smoked yet but it's for the X axis. I bought an extra gear to have on hand just in case. So far so good.


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## drs23 (Apr 22, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> In my opinion Servo brand is the only way to go.  Cheap, no, but they work.  I have had problems with the Servo knockoffs.



Thanks for the reply Jim but I'm glad I was already sitting down or I'd have fallen down! 724 duckin' fallers + shipping! It's made right here on our soil and I'd love to be able to stretch that far, just can't. My friend who works in a job shop that's had the Align brand on all their mills forever can get parts for nothing or next to. Looking at the Servo brand the parts "look" just like the Align innerds plus the fact the Align brand/clone is "rated" for +10 in lbs. more as in 150 vs. 140.

I'm on the verge of "guinea pigging" this unit for the masses. I'm waiting on a couple or email responses. If I don't hear anything back in the next couple of days I'm going to pull the trigger on the cheapie. I'll report back with honest details.

Thanks for all the replies guys,

Dale


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## LJP (Apr 22, 2014)

Look on YouTube for "Shadon HKW" he has a vid named "DoAll mill tour". He added a low speed, high torque air motor to raise the Z. I seem to remember the air motor was about $450. Home built job that looks pretty good. 
Stan is a good guy, I have traded emails with him. I am sure he would answer any questions you may have about how he built it.
Larry
Here is the link 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y9...Iz50L3g_Ps73s41qtJT&feature=player_detailpage


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## Pontiac Freak (Apr 22, 2014)

I got tired of lifting and lowering the table but didn't have the $$ to do power yet so I got the 1/2 drill adapter and have thoroughly enjoyed it so far.  It does do power feed up or down for boring but for everyday jobs of lifting and lowering the table it works well on my setup.  I use a dewalt cordless drill on it.  Bought it on Ebay.


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## dave2176 (Apr 22, 2014)

Have you tried talking jbolt out of the one he took off his PM932 for the CNC conversion. Probably just taking up shelf space. :whistle:



Dave


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## TomS (Apr 23, 2014)

I adapted a 12V DC RV slideout gear motor to my round column belt drive mill drill.  I bought if off Ebay for $200 including shipping.  You may be thinking that a round column mill drill head such as mine doesn't weigh nearly what a geared head weighs.  Keep in mind that an RV slideout weighs several hundred pounds.  Not to mention the friction associated with the RV slide mechanism.  Moves the head up and down without straining a bit. 

Motor specs are:

12V DC at 30 amps max

59:1 ratio (96 rpm output)

170 in. lbs. of torque 

The pictures below don't show a lot of the detail but the adapter is a simple tube and flange arrangement.  The gear motor is coupled to the Z axis mechanism with a LoveJoy coupling.

This may be the answer you are looking for.

Tom S


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## xalky (Apr 23, 2014)

drs23 said:


> ...so I've been looking into power feeds like I have on the X. The prices seem to be all over the map. Enco's having what they're calling a "Blow Out Sale" so I went and checked them out. They want $1485 for the same dadgum thing! (at least it looks identical other than the name sticker) I found one for $320 shipped from CDCO Machinery. It's listed at 150 lbs. like many others I've looked at. It appears to be a rebadged Align like I have on the X. My concern is it's listed for 150 lbs. duty but all I've found so far have been as well.
> 
> Is this what you guys with power Zs have used? Or something similar.


 I bought this one from Enco. It works great! http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMKANO=375&PMPAGE=22&PARTPG=INLMPI&PMITEM=404-3046&PMCTLG=01 $349 . If you can find a 20% off coupon code , it'll run about $280, which is about what I paid for mine. Probably one of the best $280 I've ever spent.

Marcel


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## smallfly (Apr 23, 2014)

guys---if you have a bridgeport mill and need to raise and lower your table or  need a servo power feed for the x  or y  axis ---this may solve all your needs. these are the folks in bp  conn.  who not only build all the new power heads for all the new bp.'s  but they also have a 2nd. business rebuilding used  bp's mills and used  hardige lathes. they have lots and lots of used  servo power feeds --that have been removed  from used machines at the same time these machines were entirely rebuilt --and replaced with new units per owners requests. now the way i see it iam a hobby guy --i don't  run this mill 24/7's.  sooooo  a functioning  used servo power  feed motor fills my needs.  heck i bought 3--used servo 's for my bp. they work just fine and these people are dealers for SERVO--these are not servo copies --these are the real thing. here is the link to these guys --http://www.machinebuildne.com/----they have been wonderfull to deal with.--trivia note--when hardiage bought bp--and moved from bp  conn. to new york    these are the former bp guys  who stayed in and still work in bp conn.  they are great to deal with and believe me they really ''know their  stuff''.  just my $$.02  enjoy  re  steve  in  mt.


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## GK1918 (Apr 23, 2014)

LJP said:


> Look on YouTube for "Shadon HKW" he has a vid named "DoAll mill tour". He added a low speed, high torque air motor to raise the Z. I seem to remember the air motor was about $450. Home built job that looks pretty good.
> Stan is a good guy, I have traded emails with him. I am sure he would answer any questions you may have about how he built it.
> Larry
> Here is the link
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y9...Iz50L3g_Ps73s41qtJT&feature=player_detailpage



Air seems logical v/s battery drills.  I am still stuck on the idea (with a drill) how's it going to do with a V8 engine on the table?
This would be nice, as of now I have to crank the thing four turns and go sit down for a while, more turns and more sitting down. Whatever
Idea air or hyd. I still need the crank. I gotta think some more.?


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## Rbeckett (Apr 23, 2014)

One thing to consider that you may not have thought about.  The gears, bearings  and threads are under a good bit of stress and using a drill to turn them or a higher powered servo or stepper motor may push them beyond their physical limits much more quickly.  While it is possible to over speed a hand crank it is less likely due to who the average users are,  A drill motor or other motor will supply an over abundance of torque that may be detrimental to that gear train very quickly.  Since Bill had to replace the gear set on the clausing I started thinking about what the cause was that made them fail in the first place and this was one of the scenarios I considered.  This is definitely not an attempt to discourage you, just a warning to try and do it too quickly and end up with a gearbox full of particles and gear shards.

Bob


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## xalky (Apr 23, 2014)

GK1918 said:


> Air seems logical v/s battery drills.  I am still stuck on the idea (with a drill) how's it going to do with a V8 engine on the table?
> This would be nice, as of now I have to crank the thing four turns and go sit down for a while, more turns and more sitting down. Whatever
> Idea air or hyd. I still need the crank. I gotta think some more.?


 The power z feeds are designed to keep the hand crank installed. I mostly use the power feed for rapid height changes. I still crank by hand for the fine adjustments, but thats usually only a 1/4 - to a full turn or so. I've seen some machines rigged up with a counter-balance system with a cable that attaches to the table and is fed thru the ram with weights hanging on the back to counterbalance the weight of the table. Even if you just counterbalanced the weight of the table, the v8 should be no problem. I have a 400lb, 20" rotary table that I'm gonna try lifting with the power z feed and no counterbalance. I'll bet that it lifts it!


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## Ray C (Apr 23, 2014)

Somehow, I think a reducer like this could be helpful here...  A 1/4 or 1/3 HP motor would do the job given a 20:1 ratio and with an 1800 RPM motor that would give you 1.5 revolutions per second.  Maybe 15:1 (if such a thing exists) would be better but, you'd need a little more HP on the motor.  Keep in mind though, if you power with an AC motor (i.e. non stepper or servo) you won't get fine control.  And in that regard, it should be noted that mills (such as or similar to a PM932) that have power head feed, are NOT designed for plunge cutting -only there to ease the burden of cranking the handle.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/360677542597


Ray


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## rgray (Apr 23, 2014)

I used a battery powered drill for a short time and then like my "center drill for lathe" http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php?t=10466&highlight=center+drill+lathe         .... I had to incorporate it into the machine.

It started out as a 19.2v craftsman 1/2" cordless drill.
It's motor is in the knee and is chain driven to the knee shaft. The gear for high range was ground toothless and a rotary solenoid shifts the gearbox into gear when the power supply is turned on. When the power supply is off a spring returns the gear box to neutral(high range with no teeth) so the knee can be cranked manually if wanted.

Since doing this I never use the handle and had to look for it to do the video.

My power supply is from a discarded 110V wire welder. I used the trasformer and cut the housing down to as small as possible. It runs the knee lift and the coolant pump. It will run the Y axis when I get a chance to finish that. It will reside inside the knee also. Plan is to use the wire drive motor from the welder to drive the Y axis.

I did this really crappy video of it...my first ever.[video] video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-49xdzgOJ-c&feature=youtu.be


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## Pontiac Freak (Apr 23, 2014)

found the one I bought on ebay.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridgeport-...=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item460ced72c0


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## HSS (Apr 23, 2014)

You guys are making me want to finish up on the knee lift on my Gorton 9J. It has a hydraulic cylinder AND a screw lift. All I've used is the screw to raise and lower the knee. I've never heard of any other Gorton having the hydraulic cylinder. I have a hydraulic power unit to connect to it just don't have the time. Maybe after I retire.
Pat


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## Cadillac STS (May 6, 2014)

darkzero said:


> I'm assuming for a BP or similar knee mill?
> 
> Here's a cheaper solution to use with a drill. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridgeport-...=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item460ced72c0
> 
> ...




That is what I did for the Z.  Remember to get a *high torque low speed half inch* drill to go with it, also available on ebay.  The adapter stays on the drill and when removed you can use the manual handle for some small detailed movement.  

If I were using the Bridgeport every day to make a living I would go with the permanently placed one like the Enco.


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