# lubrication question for Craftsman lathe



## ARC-170 (Nov 6, 2018)

I have a Craftsman 101.07403 12x24 lathe.

I've been told to use 20-weight NON-detergent oil for the spindle, but that has not been easy to find, especially non-detergent.

How important is it that it be that specific weight; can it be thicker or thinner? Can it be a mixed-weight oil, for example 10W-30?

What about the detergent issue? What will the detergent do to the lathe over time? I've heard it's just for cars with high heat differentials and for moisture control (not sure of all the technical stuff, but let's just go with that!)

Thanks!


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## coffmajt (Nov 6, 2018)

As I understand it, the motor oils have detergents added so that any small trash is kept suspended until it can get to the filter where it is trapped for removal, unlike the spindle oils which let the trash drop out.  For my South Bend 9 as well as my milling machine  I have been using Mobile oil from MSC spindle oil and way oil in one gallon containers and it works well for me== Jack


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## pontiac428 (Nov 6, 2018)

Use the Mobil Vactra way oil for your lathe mechanicals.   If you try 20-wt spindle oil, it will end up draining out the back of your headstock and out of the bearings and onto your chuck, where it will be slung in a perfect tangential pattern on your walls, ceiling, and the front of whatever you are wearing.   These open-bearing designs require a tacky oil (way oil) to stay where it needs to while you are running your lathe.  Everybody with an Atlas lathe uses Vactra, and that's no coincidence.


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## dbq49 (Nov 6, 2018)

Simply use ISO 68 oil.  Northern Tools sells it in 12 oz containers. I went to my lubrication seller(local) and asked for ISO 68 and he came out with a 4 gallon pail for $39,00.  Done and now I have a lifetime supply.  I understand Blains Farm and Fleet sell ISO 68.  Look around, it there.
DBQ49


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## ARC-170 (Nov 6, 2018)

Three are 4 grades. LMS sells Mobile vactra #2. I assume that's the correct one? I can use it for the ways and also for the spindle?


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## JPMacG (Nov 6, 2018)

Harbor Freight used to sell SAE 20 non detergent in a 5 quart bottle for about $20.  Someone said it was no longer carried, but might be worth a look.


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## pontiac428 (Nov 7, 2018)

ARC-170 said:


> Three are 4 grades. LMS sells Mobile vactra #2. I assume that's the correct one? I can use it for the ways and also for the spindle?


Vactra #2 is the right one. Your machine will love you for it. You'll want a half pint pump type oil can with a rigid nozzle to go with that.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


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## wa5cab (Nov 7, 2018)

Do not use Way Oil for the spindle bearings or in fact anywhere other that on the ways and dovetails.  It will never get through the felts in the oil cups and the bearings will always run dry.  You should never run the machine with the belt cover raised.  On the Timken equipped machines, the oil will not drip out of the front of the front bearing.  Any other drips that are slung off will be caught by either the belt cover or the gear cover.

High Detergent oil is designed to scavenge moisture from inside an engine as it cools off.  When the engine is running, it goes out the exhaust as the engine warms up.  Hopefully, your lathe will never get that hot.  But it will scavenge moisture as your shop cools off at night and promote rust inside.

You cannot mix SAE 10 and SAE 30 to get SAE 20.  What you will get will start off as a mixture of 10 weight and 30 weight molecules.  The 10 weight will drip out faster than the 30 and you will soon enough have only 30 left.  SAE 20 is equivalent to ISO 68.  Either will work OK.


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## pontiac428 (Nov 7, 2018)

wa5cab said:


> Do not use Way Oil for the spindle bearings or in fact anywhere other that on the ways and dovetails.  It will never get through the felts in the oil cups and the bearings will always run dry.  You should never run the machine with the belt cover raised.  On the Timken equipped machines, the oil will not drip out of the front of the front bearing.  Any other drips that are slung off will be caught by either the belt cover or the gear cover.



Not necessarily.  Fluids move through felt due to the physical principle of capillarity, which is a function of surface tension and capillary channel cross-sectional area.  Vactra #2 has a much  higher surface tension than ISO 68, therefore it has a stronger capillary action through felt.  I use Vactra #2, and I make my own felts from wool felt stock.  They work great.  Caveat is that I run a babbitt head because I like it better than my Timken head.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 7, 2018)

JPMacG said:


> Harbor Freight used to sell SAE 20 non detergent in a 5 quart bottle for about $20.  Someone said it was no longer carried, but might be worth a look.



They didn't have it in their website. I called a local store and they do not carry it.


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## JPMacG (Nov 7, 2018)

I'm very sorry - I meant Tractor Supply, not Harbor Freight.  

But I just checked the Tractor Supply website - they don't list it.  I purchased some from them about 2 years ago.


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## wa5cab (Nov 8, 2018)

Someone on I think the A-C Group on groups.io reported that last time that he looked for it at Tractor Supply he found a couple of gallons on the store's Clearance table.  SAE 20 crosses roughly to ISO 68.  I've been using Moble Heavy Medium Circulating Oil ISO 68 for several years.


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 9, 2018)

here is a decent deal on 2.5 gallons
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lube-King-...=item520e3e01db:g:Gh0AAOSwX05bagcI:rk:32:pf:0


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## ARC-170 (Nov 9, 2018)

Ulma Doctor said:


> here is a decent deal on 2.5 gallons
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lube-King-...=item520e3e01db:g:Gh0AAOSwX05bagcI:rk:32:pf:0



Thanks. The description says 20 weight, but the picture shows 30 weight. It's probably a generic picture they use for all oil, though. 

However, I think I found it at LMS, which is near my parent's house.


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## unioncreek (Dec 3, 2018)

I buy non-detergent #20 oil from O'Reillys for my air compressor.   Use it on my lathe also.   It runs about $10/ gallon, you need to go to the website and find it and order it online and pick it up.

Bob


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## wa5cab (Dec 3, 2018)

That is good to know.  I used to buy SAE 20 from the auto parts store that's now O'Reillys but they quit carrying it.  Could you post the pertinent URL?


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## unioncreek (Dec 3, 2018)

If I remember when I get home,  I'll check the container to make sure of the brand.

Bob


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## NortonDommi (Dec 3, 2018)

AW,(anti-wear),hydraulic oil in all sorts of weights is available everywhere in the world.  Basically any hydraulic oil will do as hydraulic machinery uses plain, roller, taper bearings, vanes and gears in pumps and gears in gearboxes.  If you live in any center of civilisation some nearby sells hydraulic oil.
DO NOT use an automotive multi-viscosity oil as it is designed for totally different operating conditions.  The weight you use can vary depending on the local temperature.
Look up lubrication in your local telephone book and find a company near you and ask questions I think you will be very happy with the help you recieve.
  Here's a bit of info on a flyer from one company and there is a wealth of information available online from all oil companies. There are also crossover rating charts online:  https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/iso-grade-oil-d_1207.html


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## mickri (Dec 3, 2018)

I recently bought a gallon of AW46 at O'Reilleys for around $16.  Had it in stock on the shelf.  I am using it for everything on my Craftsman 12 x 36 lathe.  Since I don't use my lathe every day I give everything a quick shot of lube every time I use the lathe regardless of whether it is a daily, weekly or whatever recommended lube interval.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 3, 2018)

_


mickri said:



			I recently bought a gallon of AW46 at O'Reilleys for around $16.  Had it in stock on the shelf.  I am using it for everything on my Craftsman 12 x 36 lathe.  Since I don't use my lathe every day I give everything a quick shot of lube every time I use the lathe regardless of whether it is a daily, weekly or whatever recommended lube interval.
		
Click to expand...

_
Looks like you use this:
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...lic-fluid/74405/4601123?q=hydraulic+oil&pos=4

It's a bit thinner; does it fly off the machine, or is that not even an issue?

I live near LMS, so I bought some Mobil Vactra oil from them. I also got some Lubriplate. I'll try the SAE 20/ISO 68 oil and see what happens.


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## jsh (Dec 3, 2018)

After having gone through all the same as the OP I gave up and went this way, I have no affiliation to this source. 

http://bluechipmachineshop.com/bc_b...ing_wp_cron=1540675378.3803460597991943359375

Cheap, expensive I don't know. Is it the right oil? Well I hope so but it is what I am using. Came bottled up nicely. 

FYI, I used 20W no detergent/ISO 68 which can also be called Indol on my headstock. It flung it all over the place when it was running and pretty much dripped out when it wasn't running.


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## wa5cab (Dec 4, 2018)

jsh,

If you put oil of almost any reasonable viscosity on the gear teeth, of course it slung off immediately.  You are supposed to use a fairly high melting point grease on the gear teeth.


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## jsh (Dec 4, 2018)

I use grease on open gears, my bad reference I guess but I meant bearings.


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## jakes_66 (Dec 4, 2018)

Here's what I use for my lathe.  It's got way oil and spindle oil that I use on my South Bend VM as well as my Atlas/Craftsman lathes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PINTS-SO...=item4b00b28532:g:R-QAAOxyHslQ6W23:rk:10:pf:0


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## unioncreek (Dec 4, 2018)

wa5cab said:


> That is good to know.  I used to buy SAE 20 from the auto parts store that's now O'Reillys but they quit carrying it.  Could you post the pertinent URL?


This is the brand I bought but SAE 20.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...essor-oil/ac18/4616008?q=compressor+oil&pos=0


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## wa5cab (Dec 6, 2018)

OK.  Thanks.  I'm running low on SAE 20 (or actually ISO 68) so I ordered a gallon.


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## wa5cab (Dec 6, 2018)

Oops, I ordered a gallon of SAE 30.  How did you manage to find SAE 20.  All that I can get their site to show me are multi-viscosity HD  motor oils.


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## wa5cab (Dec 6, 2018)

jsh said:


> FYI, I used 20W no detergent/ISO 68 which can also be called Indol on my headstock.  It flung it all over the place when it was running and pretty much dripped out when it wasn't running.



You changed "headstock" to "bearings".  But first, you aren't supposed to run the lathe with the belt cover open (if it has one).  second, if there was enough oil to sling all over, there was too much oil.  Third, there should be low density felt plugs in the two oil cups for the spindle bearings.  And fourth, the Altas lathe's lubrication system is a total loss one.  So it's kinda like the joke about how do you tell that a Land Rover is out of oil.  Answer - no fresh oil spot on the drive way.  Anyway, that's why you are supposed to give it a lube job once a day or before using.  Except the spindle cone pulley and back gears are Monthly or before every usage of back gears.


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## chevell69 (Dec 20, 2018)

i am trying to find  some felt  that fits in the oil area for craftsman lathe to replace some that is missing any body know were i can get some


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## jakes_66 (Dec 21, 2018)

chevell69 said:


> i am trying to find  some felt  that fits in the oil area for craftsman lathe to replace some that is missing any body know were i can get some


I've used the felt cord from McMaster Carr for wicking oil from the bearing oil cups on the headstock of my Atlas/Craftsman:

https://www.mcmaster.com/felt

I think I used 3/16" diameter firm felt.


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## chevell69 (Dec 21, 2018)

jakes_66 said:


> I've used the felt cord from McMaster Carr for wicking oil from the bearing oil cups on the headstock of my Atlas/Craftsman:
> 
> https://www.mcmaster.com/felt
> 
> I think I used 3/16" diameter firm felt.


c

if u dont mind me asking what is the felt for and two what lube are u using


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## jakes_66 (Dec 21, 2018)

I packed a small amount of the felt cord into the oiler cups on the top of the headstock bearings and fill with spindle oil that I buy from Blue Chip Machine Shop via Ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PINTS-SO...h=item4b00b28532:g:R-QAAOxyHslQ6W23:rk:7:pf:0

The felt absorbs oil and slowly wicks down to the bearings (as opposed to dumping through all at once).


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## chevell69 (Dec 22, 2018)

HEY I TALK TO MY MOBILE LUBICATION REP CONTACT AND I KNOW WERE U CAN GET THE RIGHT OIL FOR 23 BUCKS A GAL ON AMAZON


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## wa5cab (Dec 22, 2018)

The factory felts are just over 1/2" in diameter by 5/16" thick.  You can buy the medium density felt in sheets from places like Hobby Lobby.  However, the minimum order is about enough for three lifetimes.  And you will need a good 1/2" Arch Punch to cut them out of the sheet.  If you need to buy something else from Clausing, the part number is 557-097 or 557-047 (there is apparently some confusion about the number).  If your machine doesn't have felts in the spindle oil cups, you should install them.  The felt does NOT need to go down into the part of the cup that is pressed into the headstock casting.  And do NOT use felt rod made for installing windows and purchased from McMaster.  It is too hard and will take several days before any oil put on the top gets through to the bottom.  While you are at it, if your machine has them and they are the originals, replace the way oilers and rubber way wipers. too.  Part numbers are 547-004 (oiler, 4 req'd), 938-003 (wiper, 4 req'd), 641-055 (retainer, 2 req'd) and 641-056 (retainer, 2 req'd).  The retaining screw is #10 x 3/4" pan head self tapping (type A), part number 118534.  Retainers and screws are only needed if yours have been lost or damaged or if you machine is old enough not to have them.


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## JPMacG (Dec 24, 2018)

I think my machine (circa 1952) was produced in the pre-felt era.  The previous owner put what appears to be wadded up cotton in the oil cups.  I'd like to replace the cotton with felt disks from Atlas/Clausing.   Will I need to replace the oil wells at the same time?   The oil wells on mine are 1/2" ID  but only about 3/16" deep.


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## wa5cab (Dec 24, 2018)

The felt plug for the spindle oilers don't show up in the parts manuals until the late 60's or early 70's.  But the spindle oilers are the same from 1932 through 1981.  So the factory plugs shown on the late 12" parts lists or ones made the same size and from the same density felt will fit anything except a 6".


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## pontiac428 (Dec 26, 2018)

1/2" white wicking felt from McMaster, p/n 8767K25, $3.25 for a lifetime supply.  Can also be cut into shapes.


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## wa5cab (Jan 10, 2019)

I bought a minimum order (which is 5') of the McMaster product.  It is much denser than the factory felts.  It is probably usable but you should cut it into maybe 1.8" tall disks and push it down to the bottom of the oiler and fill the cup to the top.  If cut to the depth of the cup, it will slow down the oil drip-through rate too much, and it won't hold much oil.


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## DaveInHouston (Jan 11, 2019)

chevell69 said:


> i am trying to find  some felt  that fits in the oil area for craftsman lathe to replace some that is missing any body know were i can get some


The smallest size felt buffing wheel in the Dremel tool kit is the right diameter. I split one in half and made two wicks but that isn’t necessary. It has a tiny little hole in the center but you can scruff up the felt a bit and it disappears. Seems to work reasonably well. Photo attached.


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## chevell69 (Jan 15, 2019)

DaveInHouston said:


> The smallest size felt buffing wheel in the Dremel tool kit is the right diameter. I split one in half and made two wicks but that isn’t necessary. It has a tiny little hole in the center but you can scruff up the felt a bit and it disappears. Seems to work reasonably well. Photo attached.





i found some felt from mcmaster carr site that i am going order


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## teledan (Jan 28, 2019)

chevell69 said:


> HEY I TALK TO MY MOBILE LUBICATION REP CONTACT AND I KNOW WERE U CAN GET THE RIGHT OIL FOR 23 BUCKS A GAL ON AMAZON



Link?


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## chevell69 (Jan 29, 2019)

teledan said:


> Link?


Welll i cant find it for 23 bucks but here it is for 30


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## sixball (Jan 29, 2019)

I bought a gallon of Mobil ISO 68 from MSC last week on eBay for $19.77 + $10.00 shipping. I also got a gallon of ISO 10 labeled as "spindle oil", three kinds of cutting oil and some other stuff and it all shipped for the $10. It got here fast.


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## chevell69 (Jan 30, 2019)

sixball said:


> I bought a gallon of Mobil ISO 68 from MSC last week on eBay for $19.77 + $10.00 shipping. I also got a gallon of ISO 10 labeled as "spindle oil", three kinds of cutting oil and some other stuff and it all shipped for the $10. It got here fast




Not a bad deal at all sixball.  Do u have a Craftsman/Atlas metal lathe also?  Mine is from 1942.  Pretty old machine.  It was my grandfather's and before he had it, it was his friend's. I can't wait to use it every time I am out there.  I think about my grandpapie that i lost but he would be proud what i am going use it for.


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## chevell69 (Jan 30, 2019)

sixball said:


> I bought a gallon of Mobil ISO 68 from MSC last week on eBay for $19.77 + $10.00 shipping. I also got a gallon of ISO 10 labeled as "spindle oil", three kinds of cutting oil and some other stuff and it all shipped for the $10. It got here fast.


 
i am going use the lathe to make my metal parts for walking cains to donate them to the loc va hospital to give disable vets who need help walking and i am going to make some for the childerns hospital in tulsa ok


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## jwmay (Jan 30, 2019)

It looks like the oil dilemma may be solved, but my solution was to call the local Oreilleys store and have them order it.


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## sixball (Jan 31, 2019)

chevell69 said:


> not a bad deal at all sixball  do u have a craftsman/ atlas metal lathe also mine is from 1942  pretty old mechine it was my grandfathers and be for he had it it was his friends. I can't wait to use it every time i am out there i think about my grandpapie that i lost but he would be proud what i am going use it for



My machines are from Taiwan. The lathe is a 1985 Schenwai.  I bought a friends machines when he closed his gun shop. The only old machining thing I have is my dad's tool box from when he worked for Douglas Aircraft during WWII. There are some tools in it. I wish I'd payed more attention to him.
The O'Reilly idea is a good one. I worked there for a few years. If you find a counterperson willing to search you can order a lot more stuff than is in the local warehouse.


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## chevell69 (Feb 25, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> I have a Craftsman 101.07403 12x24 lathe.
> 
> I've been told to use 20-weight NON-detergent oil for the spindle, but that has not been easy to find, especially non-detergent.
> 
> ...


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## unioncreek (Feb 25, 2020)

I bought non-detergent 20 weight at OReillys Auto Parts, it's sold as air compressor oil.


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## wa5cab (Feb 25, 2020)

ISO 68 is approximately the same as SAE 20.  Mobile sells ISO 68 Heavy Medium Circulating Oil which is a good substitute.  One of the reasons for specifying ND is that usually it costs less, none of the detergent additives commonly found in automotive oils do any good in a lathe, and some or at least one can do harm.  One of the additives makes the oil hydroscopic so that it absorbs water from the atmosphere and a lathe never (hopefully) gets hot enough to boil it off.  You may want to use Way Oil (sold by many contractors) on the bed and the dovetails.  Everywhere else use ND SAE 20 or ISO 68.


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