# Replacing the broken bearings in my pm1440gs headstock



## richl (Jun 1, 2019)

There are 5 shafts in the headstock of a pm1440gs gearhead lathe. I have the misfortune of having one that is eating its bearings. On shaft B as labeled on page #39 in the manual, I isolated all the shafts so you could turn each of the shafts independently.  Using a stethoscope I was able to turn each shaft and listen for clunking. On removing the plates covering shaft B from the left side as you look at the lathe headstock on your left. I got a nice pile of metal shavings, and that specific shaft does not spin freely as the others do...
PM says just use a slap hammer and pull the bearings out that way.... I am confused, I see a m6x1.0 thread in the end of the shaft. Is the intent I thread a screw into the shaft and use the shaft to pull the bearing out? I see no other way to remove the bearing.

Any help greatly appreciated


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## Cadillac (Jun 1, 2019)

On the chuck side of headstock I would guess those are covers with a Oring groove. The picture of the inside of headstock looks like the bearings bottom out to a flange on housing so they must go outward. I would probably use a brass punch for removal. Looking at pic again looks like outboard bearing would come out first using shaft to drive out. Then chuck side. Outboard pic of bearing and shaft its looks like a center in shaft not threads? If it is threads yes a slide hammer can be very helpful. Good luck


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## Z2V (Jun 2, 2019)

I took my PM1236 apart tonight. It’s not the same gearbox but the shaft in your third pic looks very similar to mine. I pulled the belt pulley off and used a punch to push the shaft out from the chuck side toward the left. The bearing in pic three stayed on the shaft, naturally, and the bearing beside the chuck stayed in place in the housing. Probably not much help for you but that’s what I worked on this evening. Is your problem on the belt side or the chuck side of the shaft? If I’m reading you correctly it’s pic three.


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## Firstgear (Jun 2, 2019)

I have a 1440 GS, since about January of this year.  Minimal hours running it.  When did you get yours and how many hours do you think you have had it?

I previously pulled the top cover off and everything looked clean.


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## richl (Jun 2, 2019)

I got mine 1st week in August 2017. Hours of use, probably around 20-30 hours. It looks bad because I coated it with wd40 this past winter to keep her from rusting
If you are hearing clunking in the gear head the bearings in the pulley shaft or the shaft just above it are just cheap chinese bearings. I've had noise and vibrations issues with the machine since I got her.

That "best in the industry, 3 year warranty " you should read it sometime


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## richl (Jun 2, 2019)

Z2V said:


> I took my PM1236 apart tonight. It’s not the same gearbox but the shaft in your third pic looks very similar to mine. I pulled the belt pulley off and used a punch to push the shaft out from the chuck side toward the left. The bearing in pic three stayed on the shaft, naturally, and the bearing beside the chuck stayed in place in the housing. Probably not much help for you but that’s what I worked on this evening. Is your problem on the belt side or the chuck side of the shaft? If I’m reading you correctly it’s pic three.



Thanks for taking the time to stop by and post.  To answer your questions, I cant say for sure right now but it might just be the belt side. I plan on replacing both bearings. The belt side had a nice pile of metal shavings when I pulled the cover/flange off to expose the bearing. As Cadillac pointed, both bearings slide in from the outside of the case. There is almost no room to remove them from the inside, there are gears obstructing access on each side. 

I'll make a harbor freight run this morning and pick up a slap hammer. I'm being extra cautious with this, not my typical dive in and get dirty approach.


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## richl (Jun 2, 2019)

Looking at picture #3, all the black dust, u guessed it, that was from my bearing grinding itself up. I used to look in when I pulled the cover, it always looked dirty, I figured it was from the pulley belts. Now I know. Hopefully this gets this machine running much better...


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 2, 2019)

the black dust may have been from the brake linings (lower left picture 3)


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## richl (Jun 2, 2019)

Possibly some, agree I had overlooked it. The shaving were metal though.

Ok, keeping my positive attitude 
Plan A does not seem to be working. Taking some points from z2v. I am working on plate on the chuck side. I threaded in a m6x1.0 socket cap screw, nut and washer.
	

		
			
		

		
	





I modified a mount for the bearing puller hammer








It is not moving, I scrapped around the cover remo
	

		
			
		

		
	





	

		
			
		

		
	
ving any material, paint, bonds, gasket sealer... whatever.
Anyone want to guess on how this cover comes out? Thread, pressed in, magic.  She is in tight.


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## Cadillac (Jun 2, 2019)

What Does the parts breakdown show that threaded part as a cover? I would imagine so because it looks the same od as the bearing from the inside pic. Cannot be shaft their would be no room for bearing. 
With a slide hammer you will want to thread the end of hammer to the threaded cover. Any loss of motion is bad. Soak the cover with some pb blaster or your preference. Maybe a shot of co2 or air duster to try and freeze cap to shrink? Good luck


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## Cadillac (Jun 2, 2019)

I took a look at my manual and it shows those as caps with a oring. 



I’m guessing they weren’t lubed in the installation plus coated with paint after Assy they will probably be a bear to get moving. Spray them down with some penetrating fluid.


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## richl (Jun 2, 2019)

Thanks Cadillac.  Yea that's what I've been looking at the past couple days lol. Pm glossed over it as if a trivial detail when I asked for a procedure. I have, tapped, bumped, cleaned the edges, screwed the cap screw in all the way to bottom it out and hope exert pressure from inside... placed a 10lbs barbell weight on the slide of the bearing puller... I'll try the co2 next. Liquid wrench is soaking... 
Thanks for the help. Its keeping me in the right frame of mind and on focus on how to approach this. 

WARNING!!! Chinese machines are wonderful bargains, and good machines if you get a good one, else they are full time parts kits lol


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jun 2, 2019)

another approach to pulling that cover out - make a ring with an ID a little larger than the cover. Cut it to fit next around the spindle. Get a piece of plate with at least the same OD as the ring and nice'n'thick. Drill a hole in it large enough to fit the screw through. Assemble it over the cover, thread a long enough bolt through with a couple of copper washers under the head. Tighten down as much as you dare, then leave it over night. Maybe play a MAP torch around the outside of the ring for a bit, maybe on the bolt itself. Tighten it a bit more, then leave it. If you strip the threads on the cover, drill it out and tap it to the next size.

If none of that works then at some point you're simply going to have to cut/ chisel the thing out and make a replacement. Annoying but not particularly difficult. Good luck!


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## Cadillac (Jun 2, 2019)

I guess this is where a pressure lubed headstock is better. Guaranteed lubed instead of the splash/drip system we have and would help to flush contaminate out of crucial areas.


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## wrmiller (Jun 2, 2019)

Cadillac said:


> I guess this is where a pressure lubed headstock is better. Guaranteed lubed instead of the splash/drip system we have and would help to flush contaminate out of crucial areas.



Until the pump quits and you don't catch on until it's too late! 

I've had my share of Chinese 'kits', and managed to make some work really well and others not so much. Best of luck with this @richl.


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## richl (Jun 2, 2019)

Think I'm making a 2000lbs piece of scrap. This is not going well at all. Going to stop for the night. Frustration level high. Maybe try and weld a clip to it tomorrow.


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## john.k (Jun 2, 2019)

"Broken bearings " in 30 hrs............Id like to see that...................Unfortunately beginner diagnosis is not reliable,and a perfectly good bearing will often make some noise due to particles in the oil.......and regrettably Chinese lathes do have plenty of particles in the oil........however its either sand or cast iron swarf,and neither will seriously damage hard steel rolling elements..........Please dont break everything to pieces with amateur efforts to remove one $5 ball bearing.


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## Firstgear (Jun 2, 2019)

If that was me, I would thread a few of those holes and and use some bolts to pull that sucker out.


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## richl (Jun 2, 2019)

Bearing is right behind it, not able to run a tap.
Thanks for those kind supportive words john k.
The bearings were toasted. Whether you believe it or not does not matter to me.


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## Cadillac (Jun 2, 2019)

Looks like you’ve given a good effort that’s for sure. Maybe try to spin the cover by using a punch and just try to get it to budge. Has it moved any? Looks like it’s moved in if anything? I would probably stay away from a torch. 
 What happen with the center hole? It might be best to make a puller like suggested above  with a larger id so you can apply constant pressure on cap by backing out the screw threaded in the center.  That center hole will be your best best applying equal force. 
 Soak it overnight give it your best tomorrow you will get it. Best of luck


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## richl (Jun 2, 2019)

Thanks Cadillac. Screw in center hole finally broke. I dont want to drill in that area because the shaft is right behind it. Did the center punch thing. Cant get the plate to travel out. Going to try a couple more things tomorrow. I decided to stop before the frustration level got too high. Probably try tapping holes on opposing sides and use a different pulling method. The bearing puller was not enough. 
I've done more stubborn jobs, wish it weren't my lathe though. No amount of effort will make it turn in the opening. Tomorrow is another day.


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## mikey (Jun 3, 2019)

Hey Rich, you have an essentially new lathe that is still under warranty. It seems to me that PM would be able to walk you through this process instead of having you guess or damage something. I think I would call to speak to a tech and have them explain the disassembly process in detail instead of trying it on your own. If you damage the lathe then its on you; if they gave you a specific procedure to follow and you damage the lathe doing that then its on them. Sorry you're having issues but even sorrier that PM is not giving you the support you deserve.


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## richl (Jun 3, 2019)

A few people here have made assumptions that are not correct. A spoke to pm and texted them and had conversations. Read the " best in industry 3 year warranty" they offer no more than parts, at there discretion. I asked about a procedure to follow for fixing this, they had nothing. I put this info in a previous message.
I went to my last resort, here. I have made some errors, the screw breaking off in the plate. Now it's my problem. I'll deal with it.
Thanks for the support, and help. I'll deal with this myself.


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## BenW (Jun 3, 2019)

Drill holes in a line then use a die grinder to split the cover in 2/3 pieces? Or do you intend to try to save the cover? 

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk


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## Firstgear (Jun 3, 2019)

Looking at post 9 and 13, it seems you did move it, but it’s now in the hole unevenly.  Look at the photos and the bottom of the disc is in further than it was at the start.  I would be tempted to tap that top in and get the disc even.

Remove that broken bolt.

Buy a grade 8 or better bolt to go in the hole, but before you put the bolt in, put a circular disc that is larger than the the disc you are trying to get out.  Make sure you have tapped four evenly spaced holes around the perimeter of the new disc.  You will use these as jack screws to evenly pull that disc out.  If it is cocked liked it is now you will play hell trying to get it out.


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## Firstgear (Jun 3, 2019)

The nice thing about jack screws is that you can evenly pull that sucker out.  Screwing each one just a bit at a time will get that disc to pull out very evenly......


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## richl (Jun 3, 2019)

Firstgear, I appreciate the input. We are well beyond the tapping and pulling method lol sorry. The plate is only out of stew by a couple thousandths. I was taking regular measurements all throughout the pulling process.
This plate is at least 3/8" thick. That I am thankful for, I thought I might have gouged the shaft, making this repair a living nightmare.
Benws post is closer to what I am doing, carbide bit in a die grinder and slowly just milling the plug out, most of the milling is down around .28". I still left enough on the sides so I am not gauging the opening. It will take some time, but eventually it will be thin enough to pull out.

I get it that everyone's first impression of me and what I am doing is I'm a hack. I tried to go into this thing with all the info I needed, I asked a few people that had done similiar on other gearhead lathes, I asked the distributor for the machine and I asked here. If I had known the plate was in the 3/8" thick area, I would have approached this differently.

I thank those that have offered me honest well intended advice and encouragement, and for those who enjoy kicking a man when he is down, I have no opinion to express for you.


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## Firstgear (Jun 3, 2019)

I have had my challenges just like you are having....I usually walk away thinking about it for a day or two when I am not so frustrated, then I come back to tackle the job.  I had a very frustrating experience putting together a 1960 Corvette top.   I had found a way to slip my screwdriver not once, but twice onto the back plexiglass window.  I needed up becoming very good at fixing that, but I often come in the house when frustration is running high....I think better once the frustration has subsided.

You will overcome this, just take a deep breath and walk away when needed.....


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## richl (Jun 3, 2019)

Ok. That is out. Not too sure I gained anything.
I am prepared to just send her to the scrap yard.  
Anyone have any ideas how these bearings come out?


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## TakeDeadAim (Jun 3, 2019)

Please hang on a bit,  Ive done machine repair for many years.   Lots of machines, lathes in particular are assembled this way.  I can help you with this but I need an hour or so to wrap something up.  If you want to PM me a phone number where I can call you I would be happy to do that when I am done.


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## Firstgear (Jun 3, 2019)

What did you do to finally get the plug out?

Which bearing do you think took the dump?

If TDA helps you get that out, please share here what you did.

Thanks, Herb


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## richl (Jun 3, 2019)

Die grinder drilling holes and slowly removing pieces. It was slow. The bearing on the pulley side had all the metal chips in it. Now they are both toast.
If I find out how to fix, I'll post it here.

TDA, I left you a message


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## Cadillac (Jun 3, 2019)

Good job on the plug. Gotta do what yah gotta do! You can easily make that. Remember bearing are getting replaced but be careful with that shaft. Sure u know that. 
 Disassemble to me looks like the shaft has to go in the direction of the smaller gearside first. Meaning take you slide hammer with the correct thread that goes in end of shaft. Get a grade 8 bolt or better. Make sure the bore where the cap was is smooth no burrs for the bearing to get hung up on. Acouple slides of the hammer should get the Assy moving. Having someone on the other end with a brass punch on the shaft as your doing the slide hammer might help if being stubborn. Make sure gears are messing when moving shaft so no binding there. 
 Once first side is hanging out of headstock you can use a 3jaw puller on pull off bearing. Bearing in headstock on other side can be driven out with a punch or use a expanding arbor on slide hammer in ID of bearing and pull out. 
Install will talk once you get there tricky to do without hammer bearing but can be done using clamps and bushing drivers or spacers.


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## richl (Jun 3, 2019)

Thanks Cadillac. I have some cleanup to on the bore, pulling the plate out was a bit rough on it.
I'm waiting on a mcmaster delivery for this pulling the shaft.


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## mikey (Jun 4, 2019)

richl said:


> I get it that everyone's first impression of me and what I am doing is I'm a hack. I tried to go into this thing with all the info I needed, I asked a few people that had done similiar on other gearhead lathes, I asked the distributor for the machine and I asked here. If I had known the plate was in the 3/8" thick area, I would have approached this differently.
> 
> I thank those that have offered me honest well intended advice and encouragement, and for those who enjoy kicking a man when he is down, I have no opinion to express for you.



Contrary to what you may think, all of us were trying to be helpful. Well, I suppose I should speak for myself and say that I don't think you're a hack in any way whatsoever. Problems like this happen to all of us at some point and I'm glad you're making some progress. Please don't give up on the forum; I've seen the guys bend over backwards to help all who ask and they will continue to try to help you if you let them.


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## markba633csi (Jun 4, 2019)

I feel your pain Richl, I've had those seemingly simple tasks turn into nightmares too, it's the loneliest feeling in the world
Mark


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## richl (Jun 4, 2019)

Dont worry about me mark, I'm covered by the precision Matthew's "Best in the industry, 3 year warranty"! Cant understand why they dont make it easier for potential customers to read it before they make their purchase lol!

On a more serious note, because of a couple people here on the forums, I have a chance of fixing this thing. I have phone contact and emails with a forum member who is a retired machinist/rebuilder who along with members here are walking me thru the steps involved. I'm a long ways from being out of the woods on this, but at least now there is a glimmer of hope...


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## markba633csi (Jun 4, 2019)

PM usually does a good job with after-sale support. If I wanted to buy an asian machine I would buy it from them


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## richl (Jun 4, 2019)

If it does not have anything major wrong with it, you will do fine.
They answered my emails for support, we walked through troubleshooting, we came to a conclusion. They told me the parts were cheap for me to buy, they told me it was a simple matter of a slap hammer. They offered no procedures for me to follow, they told me the parts numbers were in the manual (they are not). If that is support to you, than yes, they offered me support. While I never expected them to fix my machine, I was expecting more than what I got. With upgrades this machine cost in excess of 6000.00 dollars. Again I know I was going to do the work, and for parts in the price range of these bearings I was not expecting them to pay ( dont get me wrong, I would have loved to hear, "hey, we have that bearing in stock, we will send 1 out to you"...
Sales support is different than, your machine is down, you are still under warranty, how can we help?

Would I buy from pm again? They are still on this list, grizzly moved up to number 1 for any Asian machine, I'd rather deal with a larger company with resources and support. They all have their problems, we've all heard the horror stories, but burn me once, shame on you...
Hopefully I move past this, even if it comes to selling off the parts and scraping the rest I'm moving on from the discussion. I either have a working machine at the end of this or a new piece of floor real estate  for cnc machines.


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## richl (Jun 4, 2019)

markba633csi said:


> PM usually does a good job with after-sale support. If I wanted to buy an asian machine I would buy it from them


Sorry if that rant sounds like it is directed at you, it's something that's been on my chest for the last few days. You just allowed me the oppurtunity to vent... sorry. I've had some lingering issues with this machine since the beginning.


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## markba633csi (Jun 4, 2019)

It's cool man, I totally get it. If you can't vent here where can you?  Your machine is out of warranty right?  I would expect a free bearing otherwise, for sure
I wouldn't be surprised if NO ONE there has actually done this operation.  Kinda seems like it's new territory for them.
You mentioned Grizzly being moved up to #1- by who? HM?  I have read that their service has improved a lot lately, but I don't think they sell any Taiwan machines- I could be wrong about that
M


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## pstemari (Jun 4, 2019)

Grizzly had a number of machines imported from Taiwan. In particular, the G0740 looks to be a rebadged Sunmaster ERL-1340 with some customizations. The bigger South Bend badged lathes are also Taiwanese imports.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## richl (Jun 5, 2019)

My machine is still in warranty, 2 months shy of the 2nd full year. I sent pm a "pointed" email yesterday. Would have been nice of them to help on this one. And another request for at least the part number for the bearing. Not really expecting anything... just got the parts from mcmaster to make the puller. Forum user takedeadaim has walked me thru the procedure and parts/tools needed. Just finished up a 12 hour night shift. Heading out to garage later to make the puller, move linkage and possibly move 1 gear that obstructs the bad bearing shaft from coming out.
Should have info in the next few days how this goes.


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## bpctcb (Jun 6, 2019)

I feel your pain with the headstock disassembly. I broke a gear and damaged another gear in the headstock on my PM1440GT lathe. I had to disassemble my machine twice...it sucked. I've got it up & running now. 
If you're anywhere near central OK holler at me and I'll see about helping you. 
Good luck!

BP


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## richl (Jun 7, 2019)

I'm still waiting on some brass hammers and drifts but I could.not help myself, I'm curious how this will work. This is part of a text I sent to dean "takedeadaim". I offer this to the group, I dont want to damage anything, and I'm in no hurry, I want to take apart as much is needed to replace the old beatings with new and no more.


I made up a quick and dirty shaft puller. It appears the shaft will slide out very easy. It wants to but it stops at 2 points. 1 is shaft D, I mentioned it on a previous post. It has a 30 tooth gear on it and hits the first gear on the pulley side. That is held onto its shaft by a circlip. I would need a long slender circlip pliers with a 90 degree bend. Local hardware and tool stores dont have them, or at least what I am looking for, they need to be internal also. There is another obstacle in the way also. Shaft C goes thru a wall in the block, a support for the shaft a few inches before it exits out the chuck side housing.

My hope was i could persuade the gears off the pulleyside, this would eliminate having to pull the small D shaft and that gear off. But that "support" is going to force me to remove the gears as I can "gently" remove them from the shaft.

Right now that technique is me tapping a long piece of wood with a hammer on the tops and sides of the gears.

The gear does not seem to be moving. It is not moving! I've thought about a small machinist type jack between gears
	

		
			
		

		
	





















	

		
			
		

		
	
 to coax them apart, but there is only about .840" clearance between the gears. I dont want to damage or break anything so I thought I'd send out a text to you and see what you think.

Pics of the gears, D shaft gear, C shaft and the support/casting and the basic gear layout.


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## dpb (Jun 7, 2019)

Deleted


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## richl (Jun 7, 2019)

Man, I'm not to sure you really needed to ask him that... "face palm"


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## Cadillac (Jun 7, 2019)

Yeah larger snap ring pliers are alittle more challenging to find. McMaster will have them and I recommend a good sturdy pair. Cheap ones will make you throw them across the shop. 
 I am the type that takes as little apart for a job as possible. Been as field mechanic for 25yrs. Just to throw it out there. Bearings are junk gonna get replaced so no worries of damage but need to keep shaft as is right. What about tacking a piece to the OD of the ID OF bearing then use the slide hammer to hopefully pull bearing. The little heat on ID race will help with removal. Then do the same to other side. Leaving shaft where it is. I also have a puller that has a small hook to it like a seal puller but has a arm on it to be able to hook on groove where balls ride in bearing and hammer the arm which if hook stays will pull bearing out. 
 This is the one of the things that I hate about being a mechanic. Having to take half the machine apart to get to a seal or bearing in this case. Engineers never think of the end user or person that has to work on it. Good luck.


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## richl (Jun 7, 2019)

Thanks Cadillac. Yea, I just came in from the shop. Had a good hard look at it. Took out my random collection of older snap ring pliers to get a good idea what I need to make this work.

I have thought about a puller on the bearing edge as you mentioned, though nothing I have comes even close to being useable for that. It might be worth the effort to try. If i can make up something that attaches to my homebuilt puller, it would be a big headache reducer. Cant hurt to try.
Thanks for tossing out of ideas.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jun 7, 2019)

someone mentioned these a while back - internal bearing pullers
https://www.tequipment.net/SKF/TMIP...5Nkv6LQClOl5urkDw2Dn3OTuhOsdCfyqfbBoCxhXw_wcB 

probably what Cadillac was refering to. Not sure if you can make something like that yourself or if it's worth the expense to avoid the hassle of removing the shaft, but it's an idea at least.


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## brino (Jun 7, 2019)

richl said:


> I get it that everyone's first impression of me and what I am doing is I'm a hack. I tried to go into this thing with all the info I needed, I asked a few people that had done similiar on other gearhead lathes, I asked the distributor for the machine and I asked here.



Hey Rich,

Don't let the critical yet useless reply of one crank get you down.
What I see from here is that you're trying your best to deal with a crappy situation.
I think we've all been there.

Take it slow and methodical. 
Walk away when the frustration level gets high........personally I find this difficult to do, but have learned that, for me, I must do it.
(venting prevents ex..plo..si..on)

Got any pictures of the clip you need to remove, or shots from the manual?
That may help drive some ideas too.

One thing I have seen in the past is drilling holes in the sides of the jaws of a set of pliers to put pins in as custom snap ring pliers.
Maybe you can find a cheap pair of long nose pliers that you could sacrifice for that.

Good Luck!
-brino


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## Firstgear (Jun 7, 2019)

richl said:


> If it does not have anything major wrong with it, you will do fine.
> They answered my emails for support, we walked through troubleshooting, we came to a conclusion. They told me the parts were cheap for me to buy, they told me it was a simple matter of a slap hammer. They offered no procedures for me to follow, they told me the parts numbers were in the manual (they are not). If that is support to you, than yes, they offered me support. While I never expected them to fix my machine, I was expecting more than what I got. With upgrades this machine cost in excess of 6000.00 dollars. Again I know I was going to do the work, and for parts in the price range of these bearings I was not expecting them to pay ( dont get me wrong, I would have loved to hear, "hey, we have that bearing in stock, we will send 1 out to you"...
> Sales support is different than, your machine is down, you are still under warranty, how can we help?
> 
> ...


I appreciate their problem with stocking every needed part.  Part of why the PM machines are priced where they are is that he keeps the overhead down.  Having been responsible for engineering and manufacturing there is a fine balance.  When something is on the shelf and doesn’t move eventually you end up tossing the parts off and writing them off.  Those parts also take up room.  It’s a problem no doubt, but one I appreciate both sides on.


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## Firstgear (Jun 7, 2019)

Cadillac said:


> This is the one of the things that I hate about being a mechanic. Having to take half the machine apart to get to a seal or bearing in this case. Engineers never think of the end user or person that has to work on it. Good luck.


Having been responsible for product engineering in my career I appreciate your perspective.  But engineering has challenges of weight (I.e. powder spray gun), size and cost in addition to function.  When you are juggling those sometimes service ease gets challenged.  The other issue is speed to market.  Senior mgmt wants it now to generate dollars, I have had my fair share of “discussions” about needing just a bit more time to make it better versus rushing to market because ultimately it was the engineers that had to rush fixes in after the fact.


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## richl (Jun 7, 2019)

This is why that type of puller won't help till the shaft is out. I bought a far less wonderful puller from harbor freight, when the shafts are out.
Bruno, thanks for the idea, I just came back from a run in lowes where I picked up these  
	

		
			
		

		
	





I figure I can either wire weld or silver solder the pins from the slip ring pliers to the long handle ones
As for shots of the pin, the gear is a bit hard to see as is, it is not very photogenic
Oh, here is a pick of the inside cover for the bearing




Nice ring of metal filings.  She was loud even hand turning

I'm waiting on parts still. Going to take the weekend off. Monday I'm going to start pulling the shaft outta the head, looks like a slow process


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## Firstgear (Jun 7, 2019)

Keep at it....when you get frustrated, walk away and come back later...You have all of us rooting for you.


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## Cadillac (Jun 7, 2019)

Here are some pics of the tools I was talking of. First one works really good is small mine alittle different in having a short bar on the side where that lump of metal is at


Snap rings can be a bear luckily these have been in oil so you shouldn’t have to worry about it being seized in the groove. Dealing with large snap rings are hard in the fact the squeeze pressure to get out of the groove is a lot for a pair of pliers that long and to keep the points in the hole while your struggling to compress it. I’ve had a lot fly across the room let me tell ya. These with a locking handle help a lot once the clip is compressed it’s just finding the hole to slip out.


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## mmcmdl (Jun 7, 2019)

richl said:


> I get it that everyone's first impression of me and what I am doing is I'm a hack. I tried to go into this thing with all the info I needed, I asked a few people that had done similiar on other gearhead lathes, I asked the distributor for the machine and I asked here. If I had known the plate was in the 3/8" thick area, I would have approached this differently.



I work on equipment every single night that I have never seen , don't know what they do , don't know how they operate etc . A hack ? You get the job done with the resources you have and move on , no such thing as a hack in this trade .


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## BGHansen (Jun 8, 2019)

richl said:


> View attachment 296162
> View attachment 296163
> 
> This is why that type of puller won't help till the shaft is out. I bought a far less wonderful puller from harbor freight, when the shafts are out.
> ...


I have no skin in the game here, just curiously following your thread. What's the source of the shavings? Bearing race, balls, shaft? With all the work you are going through it'd really stink to have to repeat the work for the same failure mode. Sure would be nice to know exactly what happened so you can verify the replacement components before you put it all together. You'd hate to find that the headstock holes are bored out of line to each other and end up with a repeat failure from a bound bearing (for example) from an out of line problem.

Great job so far keeping at it and posting facts on your experience instead of emotion.

Bruce


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## Janderso (Jun 8, 2019)

I too have been following along with interest.
Please tell us you aren’t sourcing the same bearings?
Who was it that bought a PM1340GT and replaced the bearings and painted it right out of the gate?
He would be a good reference.
Keep cool man, you only want to do this once.
I’m glad you are getting help from the group.
Great forum.


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## NortonDommi (Jun 8, 2019)

These are not cheap but is there anywhere you could borrow or rent from: Multipull  blind bearing puller.
Sykes-Pickavant


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## pdentrem (Jun 8, 2019)

This is a tool I will suggest to purchasing to help me on machine repairs. Thanks


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## Dabbler (Jun 9, 2019)

richl, don't get discouraged.  I bought a lathe that was "rode hard and put away (very) wet".  I have about 150 hours into it, and it will be a very nice lathe when done.  A friend of mine bought a 15" Colchester lathe for cheap... the headstock was seized.  After a similar amount of time he has a tremendous lathe.

BTW your 1440 is a MUCH nicer tlathe than the one I'm repairing.


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## jbolt (Jun 9, 2019)

richl, sorry for your troubles. I have been through this on a couple of other brands of import machines. Not fun.

Looking at the parts diagram for shaft "B" it looks like the five gears and one spacer (parts 84 through 89) slide into the shaft and are held from rotating by two shaft keys. Based on the diagram the shaft "should" slide out in the direction you are pulling from without removing any other gears or shafts. The small fixed gear on the shaft that engages the large gear (100) on the spindle does not appear to be blocked by anything?

If the gears and spacer are moving with the shaft when you try and pull the shaft they may be a snug or tight fit on the shaft/shaft key. I would put  two or three evenly spaced wood blocks between gear 89 and the head casting, then try a combination of tightening your puller and driving the shaft from the pulley side with a brass drift. Tighten, tap, tighten, tap and so on. 

The only "hacks" here are the semi-skilled labor at the factory that assembles the machines.


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## qualitymachinetools (Jun 9, 2019)

I am just seeing this, and I really need to look in to this, there is going to be heck raised tomorrow when I get to the office, they should be answering every question that you have.       Were you calling or emailing?  I will find out. I've been working on a few new machines that we have coming out, and left most of the service to some of the other guys. And it appears that something was missed. Thats not how I want this place to run, that's not how I am. 

 As far as help, I have had these headstocks apart before, they are not too bad, but can be a pain sometimes if they are tight. Im going to send you my cell phone # in a private message, or you can give me a call tomorrow at work 412-787-2876.   I have to find where the disconnect came here, I have people here specifically to answer questions if customers need help. And while the guys may not know exactly how to take things apart, they definitely have the contact info for the factory to get your questions answered if needed. 

 As far as our warranty, it is the longest of anyone, but no, it does not cover on site service. Id love to do that, but its just impossible at the price point of these machines and how far they are spread around the globe. I am not sure why the people would say that we did not have parts in stock though, we definitely have many parts in stock, I am sure we would have what you needed, but no, we do not have every single phase, but if not,we can get it pretty fast. Anything like a bearing though is a common bearing number, there are no special sizes or anything in these machines. We just spent almost $100,000.00 on parts storage/organization that we will be setting up over the next few months here. 

 And a big thank you to everyone who helped him out already!

 Sorry about the trouble! 

Matt


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## Jeff.64 (Jun 10, 2019)

richl said:


> View attachment 296162
> View attachment 296163
> 
> This is why that type of puller won't help till the shaft is out. I bought a far less wonderful puller from harbor freight, when the shafts are out.
> ...



Hello,

This might be a crazy idea, but if the fixed pinion will fit inside the outer race of the bearing, you could use a punch, picks and needle nose pliers to remove the bearing cage.  Then position the balls to the bottom.  Use a Dremel to grind the lips of the inner and outer races to make room to extract the balls one at a time.  Being careful to keep the pinion from making contact with the outer race, you could use your makeshift puller to tension the shaft and tap the other side with a brass rod to remove the shaft.  I attached a PDF of the grinding idea.  
Hope this helps.


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## richl (Jun 10, 2019)

Hey.

Spoke with matt today, picked his brain on the questions I had. He spent about 10-15minutes going over the procedure and other questions I had.
In a nutshell, the bearings are out.

Procedure:
I used the puller I made on the chuck side. I snuggled it up to keep pressure on it.
I went to the pulley side with my brand new, fresh outta the box 20 oz brass hammer. With a large drift punch I gave the shaft on that end a few solid hits. I went to the puller on the chuck side and tightened it up to keep pressure on it. This frees me up to work on the puller aide.
After about 10minutes of this back and forth, the 2 hears on the pulley side were free from the shaft. I removed them, tapped the shaft some more to get it far enough out of the way to remove the bearing on the pulley side.
Using the same drift punch, tapped the race to push the bearing from its seat.
On the chuck side, the bearing was on the shaft still. I used a conventional bearing puller to remove it.

I made up a material list and sent it to precision Matthew's with my contact info. Waiting on their response.
Light at the end of the tunnel
Procedure:

For this shaft you need to
* remove hi/lo gear shift linkage to all gears to pass
  During removal and install
* remove plug on chuck side to have access to bearing
* pull off covers on pulley side to expose bearing

Removal process
* threaded rod into shaft on pulley side. In my case it was 6mmx1.0. I bought a full hardened steel thread rod from mcmaster. I am sure I only used about 4" of it
Precision Matthew's recommends a slide hammer. I made a puller to keep pressure on the shaft while delivering blows to the pulley side. I got this idea from Cadillac and takedeadaim from the hobby machinist forum. It allowed me to do this by myself with out any issues.

The rest is just being careful, and organizing the gears as they come out.


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## richl (Jun 10, 2019)

The bad gear 
	

		
			
		

		
	






The shaft appears to be fine.

Hth


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## Cadillac (Jun 10, 2019)

Awesome to hear rich good job! Make sure the oil port for bearings are clear of all metal debris I'm sure you knew that. Might wanna look at putting acouple strong magnets at the bottom.


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## Janderso (Jun 10, 2019)

Great job!
I'm glad you were able to speak with Matt. He has a great rep on this forum. Something didn't set right.
Good for you!!
Look how much you know about your lathe now. It will go back together easy-peasy.


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## Firstgear (Jun 10, 2019)

Life is good!


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## richl (Jun 10, 2019)

Cadillac said:


> Make sure the oil port for bearings are clear of all metal debris I'm sure you knew that. Might wanna look at putting acouple strong magnets at the bottom.



Good point about the oil ports, it is also something @TakeDeadAim had mentioned also. There is no oil port, I was thinking there might be, there is a small dimple on the chuck side, but it does not go thru. There is no mark or hole inside the opening for the pulley side either.

What would be the way to approach this? The bearings have hard rubber inserts on each side, I would not call them sealed? I am not very knowledgable on bearings though. 6402-rz are the numbers on the bearing.

Any input, now is the time to make changes if any.


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## john.k (Jun 11, 2019)

If the suffix is RZ,then it has one rubbing (grease) seal,one tin shield ......if RS,then just one rubbing seal (grease) on one side,other open.Generally , only a 2RS bearing will be "lifetime lubricated",(which works OK in oil,because there is a slight oil leak into the balls as the seals wear)...............as to noise ......sometimes Chinese bearings are noisy,very noisy,especially in electric motors at 3600revs......This does not mean they have failed or run dry,because on inspection ,they are OK ,and have plenty of clean grease.Anyway,make up a driver that puts equal pressure against inner and outer races,or the bearing will brinnel.Avoid driving if possible ,and pull the bearing in ............and rolling element dont need much oil,and flood oiling carries dirt and damaging particles into the balls.....If the balls lock on a piece of foreign matter,the cage may break,causing a true failure where the balls fall out and often get jammed in gear teeth.


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## Cadillac (Jun 11, 2019)

It had looked like on the small gear side there is a hole on top of where the bearing housing is. Was it the bearing behind the larger gear that failed? Could be why it failed no real lubrication?
   As for the seals on the bearings. Since it is in bath of oil with really no chance of outside contamination I would pull the seals off both sides or at least the side where the oil can get in easier. Anyway to get more oil there would be beneficial. When you say the bearing has a hard rubber kind of seal is it the ball cage and not a separate seal that can be removed?


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## richl (Jun 11, 2019)

No on the hole. It's just a dimple on the casting. No thru hole either. The bearings I was sent are 2rz. Which by john.k post means the bearings i have are sealed. I have some work to get the shaft and gears seperated and reinstalled. So i have time to ponder this. Still waiting on a responce from pm. Should be soon.


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## Dabbler (Jun 11, 2019)

Note that all my offshore bearings in my casting are in good shape.  None of them get oil.  Mine was bought by me in 1981.  So far, so good, the only complaint is my seals.  sigh.


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## richl (Jun 11, 2019)

Thanks for the input dabbler. 
Matt says he has ordered me NSK unsealed bearings. He feels it will be better for this application. I'm going to go on his experience with this. My machine is one of the earlier models, I realize this is just the 1440bv and other models with upgrades. I am guessing the factory and matt have seen enough of these at this point to know what is the best.
I removed the linkage, pulled the shaft, cleaned her up and set all the gears back on, except for the 1st 2 gears on the pulley side.... when the bearings get her I'll take a long hard look at her and decide which end goes in first. 
Still a ways to go, almost seeing light at the end of the tunnel.


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## john.k (Jun 11, 2019)

generally,if you buy a ball bearing at a bearing shop it will be double sealed........if you comment,the counter guy will say "pop the seals out,if you dont want them."......Now ,in a gearbox ,any gearbox,with sliding gears (called crash gears in a  car or truck),all the rolling element bearings will have a thin flat steel "chip guard".....this is separate from the bearing,but stops chips from the gears getting into the bearings.....If multiple tiny chips go through a bearing,the rivets holding the cage together will fail,allowing the balls to fall out .This is a common failure in old Norton motorbike gearboxes when the chip shield is left out on reassembly.


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## Cadillac (Jun 12, 2019)

That would be a shielded bearing. There’s sealed, shielded and open. Sealed is most protected but runs hotter and goes down from there.


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## markba633csi (Jun 12, 2019)

Yes the thin metal covers are called shields, the rubber ones are seals.  Some oem bearings have a shield or seal on one side and open on the other


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## john.k (Jun 13, 2019)

An easy fix is the large magnetic washers fitted in Fuller Roadranger gearboxes.....they are just a thick 2" dia washer magnet that sticks to the cast iron of the transmission and collects any magnetic chips in the oil....they stay put in a truck ,so a lathe wont move them...very effective,and generally look like a black donut at overhaul.


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## bretthl (Jun 14, 2019)

john.k said:


> If the suffix is RZ,then it has one rubbing (grease) seal,one tin shield ......if RS,then just one rubbing seal (grease) on one side,other open.Generally , only a 2RS bearing will be "lifetime lubricated",(which works OK in oil,because there is a slight oil leak into the balls as the seals wear)...............as to noise ......sometimes Chinese bearings are noisy,very noisy,especially in electric motors at 3600revs......This does not mean they have failed or run dry,because on inspection ,they are OK ,and have plenty of clean grease.Anyway,make up a driver that puts equal pressure against inner and outer races,or the bearing will brinnel.Avoid driving if possible ,and pull the bearing in ............and rolling element dont need much oil,and flood oiling carries dirt and damaging particles into the balls.....If the balls lock on a piece of foreign matter,the cage may break,causing a true failure where the balls fall out and often get jammed in gear teeth.


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## Firstgear (Jul 3, 2019)

richl said:


> Thanks for the input dabbler.
> Matt says he has ordered me NSK unsealed bearings. He feels it will be better for this application. I'm going to go on his experience with this. My machine is one of the earlier models, I realize this is just the 1440bv and other models with upgrades. I am guessing the factory and matt have seen enough of these at this point to know what is the best.
> I removed the linkage, pulled the shaft, cleaned her up and set all the gears back on, except for the 1st 2 gears on the pulley side.... when the bearings get her I'll take a long hard look at her and decide which end goes in first.
> Still a ways to go, almost seeing light at the end of the tunnel.
> ...


Any updates?


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## jdedmon91 (Jul 4, 2019)

john.k said:


> An easy fix is the large magnetic washers fitted in Fuller Roadranger gearboxes.....they are just a thick 2" dia washer magnet that sticks to the cast iron of the transmission and collects any magnetic chips in the oil....they stay put in a truck ,so a lathe wont move them...very effective,and generally look like a black donut at overhaul.



Yep we bought them by the tubes. Those magnets are glued with yellow glue in the transmission case or that was the way the did it before I retired. This would be an awesome deal in a lathe 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Larry42 (Jul 12, 2019)

Success at last. Interesting how quickly the solution solved the problem once you got to talk to the "horses mouth." Knowing how something is put together so you can take it apart is often the solution. There are many things about machine design that could be much better if the designer had to service them.


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## Firstgear (Jul 12, 2019)

Is the machine back together and running?


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## Firstgear (Jul 17, 2019)

MarkM said:


> So Richl what s going on with your pile of metal you have  been struggling with since the day you got it?   I remember you being told not to phone and they wanted you to deal with the issue through text messages.
> Now you've had to come and post on the forum to get help.
> Any chance you ll hit 40hrs when you hit your two year anniversary in August?


Any results?


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## zjtr10 (Jul 17, 2019)

“I remember you being told not to phone and they wanted you to deal with the issue through text messages.”

 Did I miss an episode here? I reread all of the post and saw nothing like that. Was this a private message conversation?

 I am very happy with my p.m.1440 GT absolutely no complaints. But I also have a p.m.1054 mill on order so I am really “interested “ in customer service


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## MarkM (Jul 18, 2019)

I started a thread along time ago when I was looking for a lathe .  Richl was one of the ones that followed my thread and I was very interested in the pm 1440 gs.  I sparked Richl some interest and he followed through with a purchase of his current pm 1440 gs and we had our own conversation and it continued after his purchase and his awfull experience. 
It looks to be a good machine and might be all sorted at this time.
I didn t think it was very funny and my first comment on his lathe being a lemon should have been left alone!
It is what it is!   I feel sorry for the guy!!!!


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## Firstgear (Jul 18, 2019)

What happened to him could happen to any of us.  I have a 1440GS as well, although mine was purchased just this last January.  I am very much interested in the outcome and processes he had to go through in case I am ever confronted with issues like this.  Anyone know what outcome was?


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## Dabbler (Jul 18, 2019)

richl  will update you when there is news.


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## MarkM (Jul 18, 2019)

I don t think or want everyone to go off on a tangent here.  Schematics, drawings pictures and the likes are sent in the manner and shouldn t be taken this way.  It s just been frustrationg for Richl from the get go and sure for P.M. as well!
He s got a real nice gearbox there with some nice bearings to boot.  Richl I am sure you ll get there and when you do you ll be ahead of most as well with this all behind you!


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## stioc (Jul 19, 2019)

Since richl is MIA and I've been following this thread because I intend to purchase a bigger lathe in the future I'm wondering if PM does any kind of burn-in tests. Not that a burn-in test would be 30hrs but is there any QC done state side before the machines are shipped and how does this differ from other resellers like grizzly etc?
Just curious if anyone or Matt wants to educate me on the process.


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## Dabbler (Jul 19, 2019)

My local distributor, which sells that exact lathe, always unboxes and checks out the lathe before delivery.  We pay more, but the lathe is confirmed good before they put it into our garage.

richl is not MIA.  He will update when he has time to finish the install. *(as I said a few posts above this)*


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## Lucky Liverider (Jul 19, 2019)

Curious of the outcome


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## qualitymachinetools (Jul 23, 2019)

There is no problem with our service or after service, ask anyone who actually has a machine from us. Sure maybe we miss something along the way from time to time, but if we are notified, we will certainly handle it. 

  Let RichL comment about the repair and how it went when and if he decides to, I really do not know what that other post is talking about. The other poster does not have a machine from us. A machine is not a lemon if it has a bearing go out almost 2 years after having it. Its funny because it was added long after things were settled, just waiting on a response from him. Trying to stir things up for an unknown reason.
   Frustrating, yes, but its not like it happened 5 times in that 2 years. Things happen, they get repaired, they are machines. I bought a new Ram 3500 back in 2003. Fuel pump went out on my way home. Brand new. They replaced it and its still going strong. Rusted out, but still running well.    


I am not sure what is meant by the text thing, I do not do that. Maybe email, it is so much easier to keep track and handle things by email.

Unrelated to any previous posts, but to explain why we prefer email if possible:

  First I am not here at my desk 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Close, but not that much. And if I am, I am also working on many things like the new models that we have coming out soon in the small mill range. It can be very difficult when I am in the middle of thinking hard, steam coming off of my head, then I take a call. (Please do not ask about the new models now, but the details will be out as soon as I have them. 2 New bench top mills from Taiwan.)  For this reason we have way more than just me who can see the emails. At least 5 people who can answer tech questions if needed. And Pictures are worth 1000 words as people say, and its true. So others also take care of many of the emails. I could not possibly handle it all. We all work together. And we have one guy here who is excellent, but he has a speech problem and can not talk on the phone. But he is an asset to us, and is very good at what he does. He works on many of your DRO's. I also have a few more tech people starting in the near future, but its going to take them time to know the machines like I do. So this gives them a little time to figure out the problem compared with someone calling and wanting and instant answer to something thats not common.     We were growing very fast, and then the tariffs hit, so that put some of the hiring on hold for a bit. We are fine as a company, but that was a little scary, and there is a balance between instant support or good support, super expensive or reasonable. Heck I could have a dedicated support specialist for everyone available 24 hours a day, but then the cost would be 50% higher. Not going to work in this type of market.      I could ask everyone on here if they would pay 10% or 20% more for a certain level of support and people would all say sure, but then when it comes time to buy, I will hear "XXX is cheaper", you need to beat it by 10%. I deal too, no problem there, but at a certain point, things cost money and its that simple.    What is the saying, Cheap Fast or Good, pick 2.  

 Second, its so much easier to keep track of things by emails. We literally ship thousands of machines each year. While I do remember a lot, I can not possibly remember who I talked to about a loose screw 3 months ago. But if its in an email, I can read what was below and refresh on it first and have an answer that makes sense. 

 Last, I will talk to anyone when I am able, in fact, I prefer talking about machines over doing business end stuff. But when people start taking up 1 to 2 hours of my time with far off topic conversations about wild ideas, ex wives, the world, politics, whatever, I am sorry, I just do not have time for that. You would not believe some of the talkers we get. I am not talking about a little casual conversation, no problem there. But it gets wild, and I do not have time to do that plus take care of other customers. And other than hanging up, I just can not get them off the phone. I have to figure out how to handle that one, I still have not yet. And then you get the "you told me this", but in email, its all in writing. For these reasons, I had no choice but to start recording calls. I've even played them back for people and they tell me they did not say that. OK.  Anyway sorry to get off topic, this is only like 1% or less of people, thankfully the other 99% are a pleasure to deal with. And I've learned, those are the people who we work to please. And do not take this meaning not to call. Feel free. Just please keep the conversations on topic or close to it. 

 As far as checking the machines, we do that and run each one before it leaves here. Not hours though, they are ran, checked out, but we are not talking a week long check out. Takes them only about 1 hour for these models.   More on the higher end models that we have. 

 Sorry for the long reply, need to get back to work now. 

I have not talked to RichL since, as stated above, I am sure he will comment when he has time. He has our contact info if he needs anything.


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## stioc (Jul 23, 2019)

qualitymachinetools said:


> As far as checking the machines, we do that and run each one before it leaves here. Not hours though, they are ran, checked out, but we are not talking a week long check out. Takes them only about 1 hour for these models.   More on the higher end models that we have.



Thanks for answering that part Matt, it's good to know there's a QC state side once the machines arrive!

My only limited experience with email communication was when I inquired about the differences/advantages between the G4003G vs. the QMT's Chinese 12x36, I wanted to hear from the horse's mouth (so to speak) why QMT's is a better buy. I literally got a 2 line response that didn't answer my question. I think it was more along the lines of 'do your own comparison/research but we have the Taiwanese model that's a better buy [which I knew already but it was not in the same price range]'. So that turned me off a bit at the time but I haven't written off QMT because a lot of people speak highly of the service. I just hope that's the case if I buy mine because I've seen as small companies get big the customer service starts to suffer.


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## qualitymachinetools (Jul 23, 2019)

Its tough to compare those 2 models, because they are very similar other than the bit of difference in features or accessories. And while I know which machines they offer, We like more to point out features instead of sound like we are bashing another. Realistically, if you compare our PM-1236 from China to that G4003G, they are very very similar other than the small details and ours comes with a lot more for the same or less money, but base machine, not much difference. 

  We try to push our higher end machines from Taiwan, because they are just that, better, and people are happier with them. Less mark up on them too, because there is less support needed after, and no extra 25% tariffs ( for a total of 30%) on the ones from Taiwan. Just the standard 5% or so coming in from Taiwan.

 Post the reply you received or forward it so I can see, I am not sure what your email address is to search. I dont want to hijack this thread though about the repair. Maybe start a new thread and post the reply and Ill try to watch and comment so we do not get off topic.


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## stioc (Jul 23, 2019)

OK thanks


qualitymachinetools said:


> Its tough to compare those 2 models, because they are very similar other than the bit of difference in features or accessories. And while I know which machines they offer, We like more to point out features instead of sound like we are bashing another. Realistically, if you compare our PM-1236 from China to that G4003G, they are very very similar other than the small details and ours comes with a lot more for the same or less money, but base machine, not much difference.
> 
> We try to push our higher end machines from Taiwan, because they are just that, better, and people are happier with them. Less mark up on them too, because there is less support needed after, and no extra 25% tariffs ( for a total of 30%) on the ones from Taiwan. Just the standard 5% or so coming in from Taiwan.
> 
> Post the reply you received or forward it so I can see, I am not sure what your email address is to search. I dont want to hijack this thread though about the repair. Maybe start a new thread and post the reply and Ill try to watch and comment so we do not get off topic.



Thanks again Matt...no worries. I won't hijack this either. I'll PM you (pun intended ) when I get closer to buying one. I'm room-challenged at the moment.


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## mksj (Jul 24, 2019)

Normally I try to not get involved in discussions of pitting one manufacturer against another, there are enough individuals in the forum and also posts to gather the information as to the the pluses and minuses of a vendor or particular machine. They are also built to a price point and in the current trade wars the margins become thin, and it is difficult times. If you are looking at the PM-1236 vs. G4003G I think the only fair comparison is that they are both 1236 lathes made in mainland China, beyond that they are different animals. A closer functional comparison would be the 1236GT and the G4003G, in respect to overall design and the gearbox. It has been stated in the past that all these lathes can turn precision work, and easily hit 0.001" tolerances. So it comes down to more what you want to spend, the quality level, and the general machine design. Feature wise there is not much difference. There are also a number of videos  online that provide detailed reviews and comments. There are a number of PM-1236 owners in the forum that have done some phenomenal turning with their machines,  the same holds true for the 1236GT and the G4003G.

I have dealt with a number of different machine vendors, and for the most part they do not have the time to discuss the details and often they tell you what they have/stock but try not to give you specific buying advice. In a few cases they will say their preference between items they do stock.  First time buyers are also more difficult because people (myself included) do/did not have the experience to know what they needed/wanted. As one gains experience and also to some degree trial and error one  can make better judgement calls on the machines and associated tooling that works for them. I would like to emphasize that there are a lot of manufactures/distributors that sell cheap machines that have limited tech./warranty support and parts. I often hear the stories after the matter of the fact.  So at the end of the day, selection of the machine is 50% of the equation and what happens after the sale is the second 50%. You will also have isolated issues with machines no matter how good the QC, so an N=1 doesn't mean that all the machines are made the same way. I haven't heard of any other bearing issues with the 1440GS, and there are similar variants of the same model like the G0709 that have been around for a long time.


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## MarkM (Jul 24, 2019)

I hope you realize I pulled back a bit regarding that statement about text messages because of being on a forum and did not think it was right to make a blanket statement like that.  It could have been meant for positive reasons like to send a schematic or whatever as I said. However this was meant and it was stated.  I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt here because of it on a forum.
However I was there from the beginning when richl first received his machine.  Ok he is not a mechanic and struggled.  New machine so shouldn t have to be a mechanic.  Spent a good chunk of change and I know it was a battle for him.  A new owner should never have to go through what he did in the beginning and now! He really wanted to send the machine back and was declined to.   He has thirty hrs. On a machine after two years.  He should have had way more time on his machine.  His opening statement says quite a bit and its from the horses mouth not as you say someone from the outside.
There are other threads up regarding this same type of after care.  What about the pm 833 t that blew its gears and what kind of help did he get?  Nil and went elsewhere.
So I know more about richl and his gs than you may think.  We were in conversations before he bought your machine and for you to say you have treated him decent.  Well I am not that sure!


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## qualitymachinetools (Jul 24, 2019)

I do not know, I talked with him on the phone and all sure seemed fine to me.

But, since you are bringing other stuff that has nothing to do with this for some reason, for that 833T, he had all the help he needed. First of all hes running on a vfd way above the machines rated RPM of the machine. He also said that his gears were getting pointy and ready to wear out in that thread, but when he sent pics of his machine in December, the gears sure looked fine to me. The one that moves has chamfered edges so it can slide in to gear easier when moved, its not worn out. Pic attached that he sent.

Second, he emailed us saying he needed a part, no name or anything. (not a big deal) But then we email him back that same day, and we receive the reply thats at the bottom of this email. Saying that they do not accept incoming mail. Sooooo OK then why email us from that address?  So we reply back as you can see to get any info.  Thats October 4 2018.     On DECEMBER 7, 2018 he finally replies back to us with his info. I do not have the date here that he did receive the part, but he emailed us around Christmas asking if he may have installed it backwards. So it was not months to receive parts because of us, it was ALMOST 2 MONTHS BEFORE HE ANSWERED US.   This and when he first bought the machine, he called and paid with a credit card, then said wait no I want to wire the money and not use me card. OK we refund and wait for the wire to come, Then it was up in the air etc.    Then I get an email reaming us out for how long it took us to ship.  Again, not us, we were waiting for him to figure out his payments.

So I ask again, why are you bringing things like this up and in to it when you have no idea what is really going at all? Now we are hijacking this guys thread who was working on his machine and needing help. I do not normally do this, but when its something like this, someone who has a problem with me for who knows what reason and is going to bash us for no reason, where thousands are going to see this over the years, I am going to defend it.

This is not something that should be done, Rich asked for help, he got it from one of the guys on this forum and then I talked to him too. Its a bad bearing, you are acting like the machine exploded and burnt his house down. Again do I want that to happen? No. Does it? Rarely, but yes. Its a machine.


Email is below for that 833T customer you are talking about. I starred out the personal info as that would not be right. His first response is at the bottom and then up from there, if you can follow it. To clear that up I just noted which is from who.



_Thanks for your response, _*From Customer*

_I do not need the bronze nuts I managed to get those fixed. Upon full disassembly of the upper and lower table the nuts themselves were actually loose and not fastened properly. I removed the screws and added blue loctite to the threads and reinstalled the table so now it appears to be repaired. So it looks like the gear should be all I need. Unfortunately it took a very long time due to herniations in my back to check those bronze parts up close because I couldn’t lift the table by myself.

Kind Regards,
****

On Dec 8, 2018, at 5:15 AM, Parts - Precision Matthews Machinery Co. <parts@precisionmatthews.com> wrote: _*From Precision Matthews regarding the brass nuts asked about*

_Can you please give us a description as to what’s wrong with them?  It is no problem to send a set if there is something wrong, but I want to help make sure you do not have another problem, please let us know exactly what is going on with them and why they were defective.

We will need them back after they are changed out, so be sure to keep them, I will send a return label for the defective parts.

Thank you,




Also need bronze table nuts they are loose _*From Customer*





_12/7/2018 _*From Customer*
_Dear sir my address is:

***** *****
******************
****************

The above address should have be in your computer system from my purchase of model PM833t and serial number *****. I suppose it’s possible since I picked it up at a loading dock that there was a mix up along the way.

Sincerely,
*************
*************
Call or text to: **********


On Oct 4, 2018, at 12:23 PM, Parts - Precision Matthews Machinery Co. <parts@precisionmatthews.com> wrote: _*F**rom Precision Matthews*

_We need the address to send the parts, so I am not quite sure why we were emailed from this address if it does not accept emails, hopefully someone can see this and respond so we can get you the parts that you need.

Thank you,


Precision Matthews Machinery Co.- Parts Dept.
701 Parkway View Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15205
Ph# 412-787-2876
www.precisionmatthews.com

Email Contacts: (Please choose carefully to ensure a timely reply)

Shipping Questions: shipping@precisionmatthews.com
Technical Help: tech@precisionmatthews.com
Order/Billing Questions: orders@precisionmatthews.com
Parts: parts@precisionmatthews.com
Sales Questions: sales@precisionmatthews.com


On 10/4/2018 2:16 PM, ***************** wrote: - _*Below is from the customers email *
_Dear Valued Customer,

This is an Automated Response. The email account you have messaged does not accept incoming mail. Due to the unusual High volume of emails we no longer use emails as a method to communicate because we do not have dedicated personnel to sort through thousands of emails a day and respond without affecting the efficiency of day to day operations. If you have any questions or concerns please contact the shop directly toll free at 1-***-*********s where you may conveniently call or text message a live person and get the answers you seek. You may also visit our website at ************* and check out our policies and shipping page for more detailed information.

Thank You for your understanding as we transition towards a more efficient buying experience.._

I will not post again about this, this is not needed and not helping him fix his machine. I feel like a 12 year old kid but this needed to be cleared up.


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## MarkM (Jul 25, 2019)

Two years less a week and 30 hrs. Read the original post!  Say no more.  Then get on with it and help the guy!


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## wrmiller (Jul 25, 2019)

Reminds me of another thread...


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