# Questions about a South Bend 7" Shaper.



## Shade (Feb 1, 2013)

I have seen a few pictures of the one I might bepurchasing, 
it looks like everything is there, but what are thethings I 
should be looking at to make sure it is worth purchasing.I 
offered $250 the guy seem interested in selling at thatprice. 
I wll be seeing it Saturday.

Any and all advise and comments are welcome, I am not 
new to machining but a shaper is new to me.

Thanks,
Ron


----------



## stevecmo (Feb 1, 2013)

Ron,

It's a steal at $250 even if it's missing a couple small things.  Snap it up!

Here's where you can read up on them and good pictures that you might want to print and take with you when you look at it.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbendshaper/

Steve


----------



## AR1911 (Feb 1, 2013)

Just make sure the original vise is included


----------



## Uncle Buck (Feb 1, 2013)

AR1911 said:


> Just make sure the original vise is included



I would not consider it a dealbreaker without the vise, but the point is VERY valid. To get an original or one of the quality anywhere near the original that came for the machine is guaranteed to cost a lot either used, or new. Used I would not be surprised to see one fetch well north of $100 and possibly almost $200! The closest thing you will find to what the machine originally came with would likely be a 4&1/2" Palmgren Lowboy which is a low profile swivel based vise that will cost you about $250 these days, and it is close, but not as nice as having an original SB to go with the machine so yes, do everything you can to get the original vise with the machine even if you have to pay another $100 to do that. 


Also, if you can get the original indexing head tool cutter holder do everything you can to get that too as every single shaper accessory you don't get with the machine is assured to cost you huge money later. Accessories such as a log reach inside cutter holder, index centers, or rotary table cost as much or more than the bare machine these days and every one you can take home with the machine ensure a machine that will hold a high value. Just the basic indexed head cutter holder alone (which is a basic for the machine  but very nice to have all the same) is costly when found alone, but a huge enhancment to the machine when bought along with it. 


In summation, the price is good regardless of what comes with it but you could easily have another $250-350 in it by the time you round up a vise and an indexed head tool cutter holder so get as much as you can with the machine even if you pay more to get those accessories. I hope that helps you.


----------



## barn (Feb 5, 2013)

We will be waiting to hear all about it come next week.
Good luck
barn


----------



## AR1911 (Feb 5, 2013)

barn said:


> We will be waiting to hear all about it come next week.
> Good luck
> barn



By the way, someone PM'd me a while back offering to trade a SB shaper vise for a bigger one I have.
I passed, but it may still be available.

(I'll be getting emails about this for the next 5 years)


----------



## ScrapMetal (Feb 5, 2013)

Ron,

Here's a copy of South Bend's "How to Run a Metal Working Shaper" (Just click on the title for download.)  It's roughly 27M, I scanned it and am hosting it on my server so I can guarantee it is "clean".  It's got a lot of useful information on using and caring for a shaper, especially the SB one.

Hope that helps,

-Ron


----------



## atwatterkent (Feb 5, 2013)

Shade,
The original 3 drawer base cabinet is very desirable too.  Open up the side and start it. There is an automatic oiler at the bottom of the sump which holds about a quart of oil. If the pump is working, an 1/8"dia tube near the top center should be squirting or at least dripping oil onto the center pivot mechanism. Check the auto table feed mech too. Parts are hard to come by.
 $250 is a great price. Easily worth twice that in decent shape.
BTW, the SB dividing centers that was mentioned looks like the unit mounted in the milling vise on my SB 10K. It's worth about $250 all by itself. 
The pics also show the original vise for comparison
Had an SB shaper but sold it.
Good luck Sat. Weighs about 200 lbs.
Bob


----------



## prmindartmouth (Feb 7, 2013)

I  had a SB shaper too and never used it much.......too much fun playing with my 10k and a "new to me"  Atlas MFC mill at the time, so I sold it to a friend. When you check the oil pump and if it is not working, I can send you a fairly lengthy doc that discusses steps to fix it. I had run across it somewhere in a posting and saved the text. Good luck.

prmindartmouth


----------



## atwatterkent (Feb 8, 2013)

Try adjusting the valve screws on the valve block accessed from the small round hole on the left side of the machine. The pressure can be balanced between the four pipes. If I remember right, there is also an adjustment on the pump itself.


----------



## prmindartmouth (Feb 8, 2013)

_*Following is the text I referred to in message above. Sorry I did not save the source, but many thanks to the author:
*_I acquired a South Bend shaper notlong ago, and am having oil pump 
issues too. Mine was built in 1962, and is in very good overall 
shape, but it seems that the oil pump was only working 
intermittently. Looking inside the sump, I noticed a lot of plastic 
shavings, as though the shaper had once been used on a piece of 
nylon, or something. Anyway, these were getting sucked into the 
inlet, causing the pump to quit working. I decided to drain and 
clean out the sump, and disassemble the pump as much as possible to 
try and fix the problem.

After draining the sump, I removed the ram, rocker arm, and related 
parts, to gain better access to the pump. I removed the two screws 
that hold the pump housing to inside wall of the shaper, but I 
wasn't able to figure out how the pump housing comes loose from 
the "junction box assembly" (the block with the four oil lines 
coming out the top). Seems like the joint would twist a bit, but it 
didn't seem like it was threaded. I didn't work it around too much 
because I didn't want to break anything, and the oil tubes would 
only allow so much maneuvering.

Unlike Dan's machine, mine has all the oil tubes soldered to the top 
of the junction block, not just press fitted. The outer ends of the 
oil lines serving the bull gear and the crank pin are easily 
removed, but the two serving the ram ways are soldered into press-
fit spigots that don't seem very likely to come out quietly. I was 
really hoping I could get the pump body separated from the junction 
box, but I gave up, and decided to do whatever I could short of 
removing the pump.

First I removed the brass plunger. With the pump housing loose from 
its mountings, the plunger just pulls straight up and out. Next 
there is a return spring for the plunger, which pulls straight out, 
and then the steel ball which just rests in the bottom of the hole. 
The intake for the pump is directly under where this ball seats. I 
found some small plastic chips in this part of the housing, which no 
doubt was part of the problem.

The relief valve body screwed out of the housing rather easily, so I 
was able to disassemble it on the bench. I removed the adjusting 
screw spring and ball from the valve body, and found nothing wrong, 
so I just reassembled it.

Next I blew compressed air through all of the pump passages, as best 
I could. Since I didn't remove the junction box from the top of the 
pump housing, I wasn't able to disassemble the outlet valve, but I 
was able to get compressed air through it, and air came out of each 
of the four tubes. So, I was reasonably sure that there were no 
obstructions in the oil circuit.

Then I reassembled everything. I wound up having to re-solder one of 
the ram way oil tubes at ram way spigot, as it must have come loose 
from my working the pump around inside the shaper. I refilled the 
sump with oil, and tried it out. The pump started up working right 
away, and I rejoiced at my success. My joy, however, was short 
lived, because I eventually realized that the pump would not start 
back up once the machine had not been run for more than several 
hours, like overnight. Almost like it "lost its prime" or something. 
In order to the pump started back up, I would reach into the sump 
with a long stick, and work the plunger up and down rapidly and 
vigorously until the pump would start pumping. Then it would work 
fine as long as the machine was running, and would start back up 
again after being shutdown, as long as it wasn't overnight.

So, now what? I didn't find any problems in going through the pump 
(to the extent that I did), though I did notice that the brass 
plunger seemed rather worn, and fit rather loosely in its bore. So 
my next step will probably be to make a new plunger, and see if that 
cures the problem. Like Ed mentioned, mine also has a pretty severe 
flat worn on top from the actuator arm. I'm eventually planning a 
thorough refurbishment of the entire machine, and at that time I 
would like to disassemble the pump more completely. In the meantime, 
I can live with it the way it is, I guess.

As for your problem, Chris, it sounds like your plunger spring is 
either broken or missing. Or maybe the plunger is jammed in its 
bore, perhaps with an errant metal chip. If you can take the pump 
loose, you should be able to stick a slender rod up through the 
intake hole to try and push the plunger out. Then you should be able 
to figure out what the problem is.

Like you, I would still like to know for sure how the junction box 
(manifold) is fastened to the top of the pump body. It sure didn't 
seem to me like it was threaded. Dan said in his post that he had 
the pump out of the machine, but he didn't really say if he 
separated the two parts.  It seems like mine would twist, but not 
unscrew or pull out.

_*I don't know if any of this helps your situation, Shawn, but let us know how it goes with your efforts.
*_


----------



## atwatterkent (Feb 8, 2013)

Shade,
For $250, unless it's a basket case, if you don't want it I'll buy it.
Bob


----------



## Toolgrinder (Feb 9, 2013)

I am useing my 7" SB Shaper to help build a Quron T&C Grinder. Shapers are great machines


----------



## Shade (Feb 21, 2013)

Going to see the machine next Wednesday.  Here are the pictures...


----------



## AR1911 (Feb 21, 2013)

at $250 don't let that get away


----------



## Shade (Feb 21, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies and information.

Life, trying to get multiple schedules alligned etc. has delayed this, 
not to mention I am trying to reorganized my shop, which is 10 
pounds of **** stuffed in a 5 pound bag...

I got some feed back from the seller via our mutual friend; he is 
asking a bit more but nothing unresonable.  I think the biggest 
challenge is the machine currently resided on the second floor.

I will be heading north dressed an prepared for some heavy labor.

Bob, I will let you know what else is there, I do believe there are 
other machines and tools for sale.  The owner has passed and a
family member (nephew I think) is helping the widow sell things 
off.

I have downloaded and reviews the manuals for this machine
and will have them with me for the inspection.  I appreciate all the
help.


----------



## atwatterkent (Feb 22, 2013)

Good luck picking the shaper up. If I remember right, there's just 3 bolts holding it onto the base cabinet, 2 toward the front on each side  and one in the back under the motor. I'll be waiting for news of the other equip.
Bob


----------



## Shade (Mar 4, 2013)

Well the Shaper has been relocated to my shop...

After a short nogociation the final price was $350.
It appears that Bremen HS was the original owner and
Mort Shine was last owner.  I purchased it from his
nephew that bought his house when he moved to AZ.

Mort was into building intracate small steam and 
pneumatic scale trains.  One of his trains was still in
the shop.  My buddy Jim took a bunch of pictures.

It would have been nice to have met Mort.


----------



## stevecmo (Mar 4, 2013)

I don't know about Illinois, but around here we have laws against stealing!  :winner: 

Nice score!


----------



## Shade (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks for the compliment.

My plans are to mount some casters and jack screws 
on the cabinet for mobility and repaint the cabinet.  
Tear down and clean the shaper.  And reassemble.

A solid state phase converter came with the machine, 
I will mount that on the cabinet and add a power 
cable to that to plug in to my 230V outlets.

I am first a welder so I have many 230V outlets in 
the shop from 20A to 100A.  I have 400A service to 
my shop so power is not a problem.  I also have a 
RPC that can start up to a 5HP 230V 3 phase motor.
That would be the back up plan.


----------

