# Pm 1228-vf-lb Lathe Preparations



## Franko

My new PM01127-VF-LB lathe is due to arrive pretty soon — maybe a few weeks. This thread will be about my preparations, set-up and general experience with this new tool.

Anyone else with a PM1127 feel free to share observations, questions or whatever. I'd like this to be a good general discussion area for that machine.

Preparations have been in planning for the last 8 weeks. Today, I think I've finalized plans for the stand. It will be a HF heavy duty 42" base tool cabinet with a welded custom wheel trolly system to lower the overall height about 4" lower than the standard wheels the cabinet comes equipped with. The tool chest is a substantial cabinet, very heavy duty and rated for about 3,000 pounds.

The top of the stand will be 2 layers of 3/4" Baltic Birch plywood with an additional piece to set the top in the recess on top of the cabinet.

Feedback is welcome.

All the steel on the trolly system will be 1/4" hot roll flats. I've devised wheel trucks for the left side that start with 3" iron wheels, bored and centered for a .5" bolt axle. The wheels are mounted on a truck that will pivot at the center on .5" bolt welded to the end part of the cabinet support. .5" leveling bolts are just inboard of the wheels for leveling the left side. I'm a little concerned that the .5" welded pivot bolt might not be enough. I'd love some feedback on that.

Here's an isometric drawing to demonstrate the concept. I didn't draw an isometric of the casters because it would a lot of effort that would serve no useful purpose.







This is a plan drawing showing the scale and overall details. Elevation view on top and plan view on the bottom. The truck is exploded off the base for clarity. The drawing left of that is the whole end assembly.
On the bottom the assembly view is a elevation view from the side.

The tool cabinet will rest on 1" x 1/8" steel angle spot welded to the rim of the stand.






The right and steerable side of the trolly will utilize leveling casters rated at 1100 pounds each. The brackets are .25" steel and gusseted inside.
This is my second area of concern, that the .25" steel will be up to the task of supporting the chest full of iron and lathe. I estimate that the total weight of the stand and lathe will around 1,000 pounds.

Below is a photo of the casters.


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## tmarks11

Franko said:


> The top of the stand will be 2 layers of 3/4" Baltic Birch plywood with an additional piece to set the top in the recess on top of the cabinet.


Are you going to set the chip tray on top of the plywood?

Just keep in mind that the plywood will add some flex to your setup, although the chip tray will help spread the load of the 550# lathe over the surface, so maybe it won't affect you ability to level the lathe and zero the machine.  Keep in mind that while a lathe looks like a massive chuck of cast iron, in reality the lathe bed will twist like a limp noodle.  

Ok, maybe not that much, but 0.003" is way more than you want to see.   One way to prevent that would be to add a layer of 1/4"-3/8" steel plate underneath the chip tray. Locally, I was quoted $150 for 24x36, 3/8", laser cut.  You can probably find cheaper if you look.


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## Franko

Tim, the chip tray will sit on top of the plywood.  Baltic birch is pretty dense plywood and the footprint on each end of the lathe will rest right over the short end edges of the toolbox, which should stabilize torquing. The footprint of the lathe at point of contact is about 7" x 10" on the headstock end and 7" x 7" on the tailstock end, so all the weight of the lathe is supported on the ends and none in the middle.


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## Quai_Oui

Franko said:


> My new PM01127-VF-LB lathe is due to arrive pretty soon — maybe a few weeks. This thread will be about my preparations, set-up and general experience with this new tool.
> 
> Anyone else with a PM1127 feel free to share observations, questions or whatever. I'd like this to be a good general discussion area for that machine.
> 
> Preparations have been in planning for the last 8 weeks. Today, I think I've finalized plans for the stand. It will be a HF heavy duty 42" base tool cabinet with a welded custom wheel trolly system to lower the overall height about 4" lower than the standard wheels the cabinet comes equipped with. The tool chest is a substantial cabinet, very heavy duty and rated for about 3,000 pounds.
> 
> The top of the stand will be 2 layers of 3/4" Baltic Birch plywood with an additional piece to set the top in the recess on top of the cabinet.
> 
> Feedback is welcome.
> 
> All the steel on the trolly system will be 1/4" hot roll flats. I've devised wheel trucks for the left side that start with 3" iron wheels, bored and centered for a .5" bolt axle. The wheels are mounted on a truck that will pivot at the center on .5" bolt welded to the end part of the cabinet support. .5" leveling bolts are just inboard of the wheels for leveling the left side. I'm a little concerned that the .5" welded pivot bolt might not be enough. I'd love some feedback on that.
> 
> Here's an isometric drawing to demonstrate the concept. I didn't draw an isometric of the casters because it would a lot of effort that would serve no useful purpose.
> 
> View attachment 100881
> 
> 
> This is a plan drawing showing the scale and overall details. Elevation view on top and plan view on the bottom. The truck is exploded off the base for clarity. The drawing left of that is the whole end assembly.
> On the bottom the assembly view is a elevation view from the side.
> 
> The tool cabinet will rest on 1" x 1/8" steel angle spot welded to the rim of the stand.
> 
> View attachment 100882
> 
> 
> The right and steerable side of the trolly will utilize leveling casters rated at 1100 pounds each. The brackets are .25" steel and gusseted inside.
> This is my second area of concern, that the .25" steel will be up to the task of supporting the chest full of iron and lathe. I estimate that the total weight of the stand and lathe will around 1,000 pounds.
> 
> Below is a photo of the casters.
> 
> View attachment 100883



Franko,

A quick check in the pivot pins says that it is OK to carry the load, based upon the assumption that the total load is 3000 lbs and that it is spread more or less evenly.  The 1/8" angle is to thin, and is not so far below the compression limit.  I would suggest that you go to 1 x 1/4", and that will be OK.  Similar for the thickness of the trolley carriage.

If the total load, lathe and cabinet full of tools is only half of that, then you will be OK.

I built a metal cabinet for my lathe, laser cut, folded and all bolted together, with a suitable sealant on the coolant collector surfaces.  It has cupboard either end with drawers on extended guides so they pull right out and a centre cupboard under the swarf collection pan that houses the coolant sump and pump plus its like the dividing head and tool post grinder. Milling column on the lathe.

Duncan


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## Franko

Thanks for the input, Duncan. I'm a practical engineer so the math of loads is beyond me. To clarify, you're saying that the .25 caster mounting brackets should be sufficient?

Don't take any of my comments as challenging your advise. This is how I learn. I really appreciate your input.

The box is rated for 3000 pounds but I don't expect the weight of the lathe, box and tools to be much more than 1,200 pounds. The lathe is a bit over 500 pounds, the box about 200 pounds, leaving a pretty generous allowance for tools, chucks and other iron and steel gizmos that will reside in the box.

I intend for the fit on the trolly to be pretty tight to the sides of the box, allowing about a tenth of an inch of slop. It will fit the bottom of the chest like a shoebox lid. The bottom of the box is not flat. There is a lip around the edge. That's why I thought .125 x 1 angle lip would suffice, as all the load will be within about 0.2" of the angle, which will be spot welded every 10 or so inches along the length of the base. 

By "spot welding," I mean drilled and TIG welded.

If I use .25 angle, it almost wouldn't need to be angle as the thickness would be sufficient to support the sides of the cabinet. I guess the advantage of using angle is for a little additional stiffening support against outward bowing, though I don't see how that can happen if the fit is tight.

I considered just welding a 3/16 x 3/4 strap around the bottom to make a 3/4" lip, but figured I have a better shot at everything remaining square and straight if I use angle.

Another difficulty is how to weld the end pieces to the front and back pieces.  All the welding has to be on the outside as a bead anywhere on the inside will interfere with the fit of the cabinet in the stand. The ends are designed to fit with a T-butt joint. I'm pretty sure my welding skills are good enough to get pretty good penetration if I bevel before welding, but it worries me that they will only be welded on one side of the joint. I suppose if I don't run the support angle lip all the way to the inside corners and leave a gap, that I could put an additional 1" inside corner bead where the torquing forces are the greatest.

My concern for the 1/2" pivot is that there is a lot of leverage on that connection because the way the wheels stick out from the 1/4" x 2" strap. I've considered adding two more studs and nuts through a slot outboard of the pivot to tighten and help hold the 1/4 x 2 strap tight to the ends to resist torquing.


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## Whyemier

I have a Grizzly, _'older' Grizzly (15 years old now),_ 11-27 Lathe.  I think it is the same basic machine but doesn't have all the bells and whilstles of the new lathes.  I'll keep an eye on what you do here and hope there is something I can use with mine.

Thanks for this post.


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## Franko

Thanks for your interest, Whyemier. My current lathe is a Grizzly G-4000. It has been a good lathe for me and has done all I'm up to so far. It is just a tad short and only has two speeds. The big 1.5" spindle bore (and variable speed control) is what I'm most excited about with the PM1127. It isn't a very long lathe, but the big bore makes up a lot of its lack of length between spindles.


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## Whyemier

I have had no complaints from my older lathe.  Well aside from no reverse on mine until I added such a few months ago with a modification to the banjo. It does all I want it to do.


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## Quai_Oui

Franko said:


> Thanks for the input, Duncan. I'm a practical engineer so the math of loads is beyond me. To clarify, you're saying that the .25 caster mounting brackets should be sufficient?
> 
> Don't take any of my comments as challenging your advise. This is how I learn. I really appreciate your input.
> 
> The box is rated for 3000 pounds but I don't expect the weight of the lathe, box and tools to be much more than 1,200 pounds. The lathe is a bit over 500 pounds, the box about 200 pounds, leaving a pretty generous allowance for tools, chucks and other iron and steel gizmos that will reside in the box.
> 
> I intend for the fit on the trolly to be pretty tight to the sides of the box, allowing about a tenth of an inch of slop. It will fit the bottom of the chest like a shoebox lid. The bottom of the box is not flat. There is a lip around the edge. That's why I thought .125 x 1 angle lip would suffice, as all the load will be within about 0.2" of the angle, which will be spot welded every 10 or so inches along the length of the base.
> 
> By "spot welding," I mean drilled and TIG welded.
> 
> If I use .25 angle, it almost wouldn't need to be angle as the thickness would be sufficient to support the sides of the cabinet. I guess the advantage of using angle is for a little additional stiffening support against outward bowing, though I don't see how that can happen if the fit is tight.
> 
> I considered just welding a 3/16 x 3/4 strap around the bottom to make a 3/4" lip, but figured I have a better shot at everything remaining square and straight if I use angle.
> 
> Another difficulty is how to weld the end pieces to the front and back pieces.  All the welding has to be on the outside as a bead anywhere on the inside will interfere with the fit of the cabinet in the stand. The ends are designed to fit with a T-butt joint. I'm pretty sure my welding skills are good enough to get pretty good penetration if I bevel before welding, but it worries me that they will only be welded on one side of the joint. I suppose if I don't run the support angle lip all the way to the inside corners and leave a gap, that I could put an additional 1" inside corner bead where the torquing forces are the greatest.
> 
> My concern for the 1/2" pivot is that there is a lot of leverage on that connection because the way the wheels stick out from the 1/4" x 2" strap. I've considered adding two more studs and nuts through a slot outboard of the pivot to tighten and help hold the 1/4 x 2 strap tight to the ends to resist torquing.



Franko,

I only checked the pin loads.  Initially for the shear load in the pin alone.  Then I thought that I should also check the crushing load of the pin in the angle.  I would still recommend that the angle, and if it was me I would use angle for the reasons you have given, should be 1/4" thick.  You could do this with a doubler plate.  I did not check any of the other strength requirements, but I would have thought them generally to be OK.  Be aware that it will not take a lot to double the loading with tooling etc, so some reserve is a good idea.

For you welding, to get a full penetration leave about a 1/16th gap ( these days I'm working in metrics), by tack welding the items with this.  do this once you have made the bevel.  You should then with the right power (read current) get a full penetration with a small bead on the inside.  This is used wherever single side welds are employed.  A very good example is pipes.  They need to withstand full pressure, have no corrosion nooks, and not disrupt flows.  Also used in many other application.  Even the first weld on two sided welds, where the bead and some material is gouged out for the second weld.  The bead is nothing that will worry the seating of the chest.  If necessary add a radius to the bottom corners.  That will not detract from it sitting nicely or the load bearing.

Providing the chest load is generally spread over the trolley, then the only load is downwards and that is taken at the rest points (castors), so there could be a tendency for the attachment areas to bend up a little from the bending moment applied at this point.  An angle will reduce this, a box section would more or less stop it.  But in reality the loads are not large even at 3000 lbs that is only 750 lbs at each point for a uniform load or perhaps 1000 lbs at the head stock end.

Good luck with you project.

Duncan


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## Franko

Thanks, Duncan. I appreciate your time and thought on this. 

I went to the metal store today and purchased most of the steel. 
I was lucky to find a drop of 6x6 3/8" angle for the caster bracket. I doubt that it will even need to be gusseted. 
I also decided to increase the thickness of the stationary wheel caster bar from 2" x  1/4" to 3/8" thickness.

If I get a penetration bead inside the corner welds, it most probably wouldn't decrease the strength if I grind the weld protrusion square inside. It would also be possible to hammer some bevel on the cabinet base.


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## Franko

I'm also very tempted to repaint the tool chest. It is red. I'd like to match it to the color scheme of the lathe. 
But, boy would it be a pain in the butt. 
There is no way that any paint I can spray will match the durability of the powder coat or baked enamal (whatever it is) finish on the box. 

I don't suppose it would be terrible if the insides of the drawers remain red, but the idea of that rubs my fur backwards. I suppose I could sand all the outside surfaces and just use aerosol spray enamel.  

Never mind me. I'm just thinking out loud.


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## dlhoulton

Franko, let us know when you "Get the call" or email telling you that your lathe is in route. Looking forward to seeing one in a shop and being setup. Hope it's not a very long wait now. I'm just as excited as you are.


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## GA Gyro

Franko said:


> I'm also very tempted to repaint the tool chest. It is red. I'd like to match it to the color scheme of the lathe.
> But, boy would it be a pain in the butt.
> There is no way that any paint I can spray will match the durability of the powder coat or baked enamal (whatever it is) finish on the box.
> 
> I don't suppose it would be terrible if the insides of the drawers remain red, but the idea of that rubs my fur backwards. I suppose I could sand all the outside surfaces and just use aerosol spray enamel.
> 
> Never mind me. I'm just thinking out loud.



Franco...

I have two PM machines in my shop... and when I built my stands, wanted a 'blue' color that would go well with Matt's color scheme.
Here is a suggestion:  Go to your local big-box home store or hardware store, and get a quart of Rustoleum 'Royal Blue'... and just brush it on.  If you practice a little with a decent quality brush, you can get it to go on like butter, the brush lines to vanish, and it not run.  IMO, while it is not a match to "PM dark blue"... it is a fair compromise that looks good.

I also used Rustoleum 'almond' as the off white color... it is definitely less white and more 'creamy' colored than Matt's off white... yet again it is a decent compromise... And they are both stock colors off the shelf.  BTW: The Rustoleum Almond... was almost a perfect match to the creamy color of my Jet 7x12 bandsaw.


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## Franko

Thanks, John. Almond was what I was considering. If I don't paint the inside of the drawers, I feel that almond and red won't be as garish as blue and red. There are some nice boxes that can be purchased in a nice shade of blue, but cabinets that big are humorously expensive.


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## Franko

I started fabrication on the stand today. I ordered the steel and picked it up this afternoon.

The first fabrication was on the left-side iron wheel brackets. Each one is 2.75" x2" x .25". I cut 6" blanks on the bandsaw and marked the holes and the relief radiuses on each end.
Then I ground the radius on each end of the blanks with a flap wheel mounted on my bench grinder.







I drilled the axle holes indexing on the outboard end and ground the radius smooth on the belt grinder.






Then I cut the blanks in two and clamped them the mill and faced the inboard ends to 2.75" so they'd all be the same length and square so the axles will line up.






So, now the wheel trucks are fabricated and just about ready to weld.
I only had one 1/2" bolt with enough shoulder to provide a bearing surface.
The wheel assembly laying down has the right bolt. I'll trim the threads to proper length.


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## GA Gyro

Looks GREAT!


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## Franko

Thanks, John. Thanks for looking.

It is amazing what a small pile $100 worth of steel is, nowadays.


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## GA Gyro

Franko said:


> Thanks, John. Thanks for looking.
> 
> It is amazing what a small pile $100 worth of steel is, nowadays.



Sadly... one does not get much for the $$$ anymore... price inflation.

I buy most of my metal from a local 're-sale' shop.  They supply specialty shops, and the left-overs they sell by the #.


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## Big Rack

Are you buying the basic lathe or the tooled up version? I'm looking at this same lathe and Grizzlies G4003 and G4003G, what conviced you? I like the varible speed I assume it's a VFD, I don't like the spindle  mount and I would like a lower minimum speed. the G4003G with stand is $3550 shipped the PM is $3087 shipped with stand I'm kinda leaning to the G4003G. Did you read the manual about to make your chuck (if not concentric) run concentric that kinda scared me.
I've never owned either and am trying to get the most for my money.


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## Franko

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "tooled up," Big Rack. I'm buying the basic lathe as sold by Quality Machine Tools and none of the optional equipment. You can see it here: http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-1127-VF.html

It claims the low speed is 50 rpm. That's pretty slow.

I chose it because of the many good things said about QTs PM machines by others on this forum and I liked what I saw on QT's website. I was thinking about the Grizzly G0750 gunsmith's lathe and looking at a Grizzly G0752 and a Sieg SC-6 before I discovered the PM 1127.

I've heard some people express concern about the spindle mount, but none specific saying there are problems with this lathe. It is what it is. I guess I'll find out if I don't like it. I can't imagine it is any worse than the threaded spindle on my G4000, and that hasn't caused me any problems that I'm aware of. Honestly, I don't do very critical high precision work my tools. I have no plans to build a 1/4 scale Allison engine or any watches or clocks.

Other factors were that I haven't needed a much longer lathe than my G4000 9 x 19, the 1.5" spindle bore, the variable speed, power cross feed, mechanical switches which give me lots of options if the electronics give me any problems in the future, and the weight. I need to be able to move it in my shop and I don't have room for a longer lathe.

I don't believe that bigger is always better. There could be times when I might need a semi truck, but I don't want to drive one around all the time, just in case. I drive a Honda CRV. If need to carry more than it will hold, I have a utility trailer. If I need something bigger than that, I'll rent it.

The G4000 has served me very well for the last 10 years. There were a couple times I wished it was 2" longer and had more speeds. And, I've always wanted a large spindle bore, though when I purchased it, I didn't know from spindle bores. The PM1127 meets and exceeds all those requirements and much more, for my requirements.


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## Big Rack

That's exactly it I got the speeds fronm the link to the owner's manual it must be changed the manual also claimed a smaller bore than the ad shows I just took it as a typo. Why didn't you also buy the stand? Please keep us informed on your lathe.


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## Big Rack

Sorry I don't know how to edit I also cosidered the other grizzly lathe but I thought the gearbox would be easier to break and it took more change gears. Probably like you I'm looking for a lathe to last so I'm looking pretty hard.


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## Franko

I can relate to that, Big Rack. Only you know what you plan to make with your lathe. It can be confusing. Buying machines is a lot like picking a girlfriend. You'll never find a perfect one. You eventually have to settle for one that will let you kiss her.

Look at just under your post. There is an edit button.


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## wrmiller

The edit button is only there for about an hour or so, if I remember correctly.


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## Dan_Austin

It is exciting that there might be new and comprehensive reviews of this unit.  I ordered on four weeks ago
as my first lathe after looking at what was available in the 7" to 10".  I was not convinced the 1127VF was
right for me, but my gut said it was in the goldilocks zone, not too big or not to small.


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## Franko

I know what you mean, Dan. It is as though Mat custom designed the PM1127 just for me. 

*********************************

Bill, I'm pretty sure the edit button is there for one day. I checked back and a post I made Saturday morning at 1:31 am (about 23 hours ago) still is editable.

I just copied and pasted this from that post a few minutes ago.

Franko, Yesterday at 1:31 AM Edit Report

*********************************
The downloadable manual for the PM1127 is outdated. 

Big Rack, (I feel wierd calling you that) I've been using a lower tool cabinet for the base for my G4000 since I got it. I like having my tools and chucks right there under the lathe, inside drawers where they are handy. I have a box that is about the right size and strength that will fit under the PM1127, so it seemed like a worthwhile project. I'm not going to save any money, but I think the drawer cabinet will be better for my requirements.

I've spent about $80 for the casters, $10 for the cast iron wheels, probably another $10 or $20 for nuts and bolts, $120 for the steel, and $90 for a 5' x 5' x 3/4" sheet of baltic birch veneer core plywood for the top.


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## Franko

GA Gyro said:


> Franco...
> 
> I have two PM machines in my shop... and when I built my stands, wanted a 'blue' color that would go well with Matt's color scheme.
> Here is a suggestion:  Go to your local big-box home store or hardware store, and get a quart of Rustoleum 'Royal Blue'... and just brush it on.  If you practice a little with a decent quality brush, you can get it to go on like butter, the brush lines to vanish, and it not run.  IMO, while it is not a match to "PM dark blue"... it is a fair compromise that looks good.
> 
> I also used Rustoleum 'almond' as the off white color... it is definitely less white and more 'creamy' colored than Matt's off white... yet again it is a decent compromise... And they are both stock colors off the shelf.  BTW: The Rustoleum Almond... was almost a perfect match to the creamy color of my Jet 7x12 bandsaw.



GA, I checked the Rustoleum web site and they have an off white called "Shell White." It isn't as beige as the almond and I'm guessing it is a very close match to PM's off white. It is just about the same as the off white Rikon tool color. (Woodworld had Rikon and Jet tools on display. The Jet is definitely almond. (I have a Jet jointer) I think they make an 'etching' primer, too.


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## wrmiller

Well Franco, I can't 'edit' my post of last night, so maybe some of us get extra time... 

My little lathe is no where near (~300 lbs) as big as yours but I have it and my small mill both on 44" tool box lowers for the same reason you give: It's nice to have all those drawers right under the machine for stuff. I thought about putting one of those massive snap-on lowers under my 1340 but those puppies are downright expensive!


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## Franko

Weird about the editing differences, Bill. :-\ 

Take a look at the Harbor Freight 44 inch tool chest. They are very heavy duty, pretty well made and they put them on sale often for about $350. They are actually 42 inches. I picked up mine several years ago when they still allowed you to use a 20% coupon on tool boxes for under $300.

The problem with using the big lower cases is that they are too tall on the stock wheels, about 39". That's why I'm making the wheel set for mine.


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## wrmiller

Franko said:


> Weird about the editing differences, Bill. :-\
> 
> Take a look at the Harbor Freight 44 inch tool chest. They are very heavy duty, pretty well made and they put them on sale often for about $350. They are actually 42 inches. I picked up mine several years ago when they still allowed you to use a 20% coupon on tool boxes for under $300.
> 
> The problem with using the big lower cases is that they are too tall on the stock wheels, about 39". That's why I'm making the wheel set for mine.



Not for someone who's 6'3".


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## Franko




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## Big Rack

Don't feel wierd with Big Rack it's from my cowboy shooting days, my initials are RAC and I'm a pretty big guy so not being very inventive and as you must have an alias in CAS that's what I came up with.
I think you got me rethinking the 1127VFLB is sounding better, I think I'm going to call tomorrow and see if they are in stock.
I do notice that in some places they say 3 year warranty and other places they refer to a 2 year warranty.


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## Franko

I'm pretty sure they aren't in stock, Big Rack. I ordered mine 10 weeks ago. The container should be here by now, but I haven't heard anything from them. I don't know if any of the expected machines are not promised.


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## GA Gyro

Big Rack said:


> Are you buying the basic lathe or the tooled up version? I'm looking at this same lathe and Grizzlies G4003 and G4003G, what conviced you? I like the varible speed I assume it's a VFD, I don't like the spindle  mount and I would like a lower minimum speed. the G4003G with stand is $3550 shipped the PM is $3087 shipped with stand I'm kinda leaning to the G4003G. Did you read the manual about to make your chuck (if not concentric) run concentric that kinda scared me.
> I've never owned either and am trying to get the most for my money.



I think the 1127 is an actual DC VS motor, rather than a 3PH and VFD.  Might check Matt's website.

Matt's machines are WELL built... one definitely gets their $$$'s worth with them.

And Matt's customer service is the tops...


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## darkzero

Currently the post edit time is set to 1440 mins/24 hrs from the time stamp of the post.



Franko said:


> match to PM's off white



FYI, PM's white is not all the same. The older PM45s do not match the newer PM45s or PM932. Rustoleum Satin Heirloom White matches my PM1236 perfectlyl but it does not match my PM45. I believe Mike (ZM) tried using the Heriloom White & it does not match his PM1340GT or PM935.


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## Franko

darkzero said:


> FYI, PM's white is not all the same. The older PM45s do not match the newer PM45s or PM932. Rustoleum Satin Heirloom White matches my PM1236 perfectlyl but it does not match my PM45. I believe Mike (ZM) tried using the Heriloom White & it does not match his PM1340GT or PM935.



Thanks, Will. Does Heirloom White look bad with the other PM white? I mean, we are talking about painting the stand, not trying to touch up the lathe.  I was also considering using a color they call Putty, which is a tan/gray or taupe. It wouldn't match but would be a pleasing color with off-white and blue.

While I'm at it, Mr. Wizard, how come some of the member photos have a green corner in the upper left?


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## Franko

This evening I re-squared my horizontal band saw and cut all the steel for the stand. 
On one of them, the swing arm that holds the iron wheels and brackets, I got mixed up and measured once and I'm going to have to cut twice. I zoned out and cut it 16.5" instead of 18.5" , but it is cut square and true. 

Off to the steel store again tomorrow. Fortunately, it was the least expensive piece of steel, at $4.71.

How come you never mess up and cut a part too long?


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## darkzero

Franko said:


> Thanks, Will. Does Heirloom White look bad with the other PM white? I mean, we are talking about painting the stand, not trying to touch up the lathe.  I was also considering using a color they call Putty, which is a tan/gray or taupe. It wouldn't match but would be a pleasing color with off-white and blue.



I suppose that depends on how well your eyes perceive color, some better then others. I can definitely tell the difference from my mill. On my mill I painted the quill bracket with the heriloom white. It doesn't bother me at all but I can definitely see the difference. If you look in zmotorsport's lathe & mill thread you will easily notice the differences. That should give you an idea of how different the whites are.

My PM45 came with a gray stand instead of the "PM blue" as they say like on the new PM45s & PM932s. For very brief moment when I first received it I was sad that it did not match my lathe. But if I ever repaint the stand on my lathe it will be gray. When I repaint the mill someday I will use the heirloom white. I like it better than the stock white but maybe I'm just used to it.




Franko said:


> While I'm at it, Mr. Wizard, how come some of the member photos have a green corner in the upper left?



The green mark is to indicate members that are currently online (if their privacy setting is not set to hidden). With some of the other styles, the online indicator doesn't work.


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## Franko

darkzero said:


> I suppose that depends on how well your eyes perceive color, some better then others. I can definitely tell the difference from my mill. On my mill I painted the quill bracket with the heriloom white. It doesn't bother me at all but I can definitely see the difference. If you look in zmotorsport's lathe & mill thread you will easily notice the differences. That should give you an idea of how different the whites are.
> 
> My PM45 came with a gray stand instead of the "PM blue" as they say like on the new PM45s & PM932s. For very brief moment when I first received it I was sad that it did not match my lathe. But if I ever repaint the stand on my lathe it will be gray. When I repaint the mill someday I will use the heirloom white. I like it better than the stock white but maybe I'm just used to it.



Thanks, Will. It took some digging but I found zmotorsports thread. It looks close enough to me. Maybe just a tad creamier than the stock white.


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## GA Gyro

There is an old saying in color and texture matching... I learned this when doing remodeling projects:  
If you cannot match it so the eye does not catch it daily... then contrast it so the eye likes it.

I have yet to find a 'match' for PM white... and yes the white of my PM935 is slightly different than the white of my PM1340GT... go figure.  Since they are a couple of feet apart... one does not notice.  
If I were to repaint... I think I would use the Rustoleum 'almond'... as it is more earth-tone... and also more 'oily'.  Thus subtle oil stains may not stick out as much... 

Here is another subtle decorating thing we used in remodeling projects:  Darker colors towards the floor, and lighter colors as one goes up.  
The reason for this is one's eye goes toward the lighter colors and the contrasts... Personally, I would prefer my eye to drift towards the working part of the machine (where the parts are)... rather than the cabinet or stand or floor.  This is probably a result of doing the color and texture choices in many a basement finish.  

Hope this helps folks with their paint choices.

GA


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## Franko

Well, there's been a big change, today. After speaking with Matt this afternoon, I decided to change my order for the PM 1127-vf-lb to their new PM 1228-vf-lb. It's basically the same lathe but with a D1-4 camlock chuck, a 2HP brushless DC motor, and touch pad instead of switches.

I liked the switches, but my mill has touch pads and I have no problem with how they operate. I'd prefer switches, but as long as the touch pad doesn't crater, I'm ok with it.

The 1228 costs about $100 more and doesn't come with a few of the accessories the 1127 has, like a spindle chuck, live center and AXA tool holder. I have extra 5/8" drill chucks and a JT to MT adapter is no big deal. I have a set of MT2 live centers, so I have to sleeve them to MT3. Again, no biggie. I already have an AXA tool holder and enough tool holders for it. More would have been nice but not a necessity.


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## wrmiller

Congrats! Will be interested in pics and your impressions on the new machine.


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## Franko

Me too, Bill. I've put in a request for getting the title of this item changed to reflect the new machine.

The foot print of the 1228 is virtually identical to the 1127. Maybe an inch longer. The weight is just about identical. The stand I've started will work fine.


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## GA Gyro

Sounds like a plan to me... it appears you came out on the good side of this upgrade.  

Will the 1228 be here sooner than the 1127 would have?


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## Franko

Thanks John. Yes, the 1228 is off the boat in the US. The 1127 just got put on the boat in China. Matt said I should have it in about 2-weeks.


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## GA Gyro

Ya know... If I was just starting out... I would be interested in the 1228.  

I started out interested in the 1127... however the bolt on chuck was the killer.  Then went to the 1236.... and eventually just had to have a 1340GT.  I can say without reservation... the build quality of the 1340GT is superb for its class and price point.  

And the same thing happened with the mills... started out looking at a 932... and ended up with a 935 (knee mill).  

Franko, I think you will enjoy this 1228... I am looking forward to seeing the pictures and reading your review.


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## Franko

John, I'm not exactly just starting out. I got my first lathe in 1993. It was a small Emco to make stepped axles for a dozen gear motors I needed to make. After a few years I had to sell it. I bought the G4000 in 2007 along with the G0619 bench mill. I know what kind of work I do, and up to now, I've not needed much more than what I have. For the work I do, the G4000 has been a good lathe. I just wished it had a larger spindle bore and was about 2" longer. Plus, it only has 2 speeds.

I'm a one man enterprise and I'm almost completely self-taught. I never even saw anyone but me work a lathe or mill until uTube a couple years ago. I had gotten some DVDs ordered from Little Machine Shop that were instructive. I never thought of anything I could do with a lathe until I had one. But, I always knew I wanted a mill.

I subscribe to Home Shop Machinist and Machinist Workshop. Half of the articles go over my head but I still manage to pick up something from each issue. There is so much to learn and people have been doing this all their lives. I have found a home here on Hobby Machinist. I have learned so much in the two months I've been a member, and hopefully have contributed some too. I don't know that I would have been ready to soak in what I have 5 years ago.

You sit up, you crawl, you walk, you run, your drive then you fly. Well, running and flying is out. Knees, eyes and decrepitude. That is a sad aspect of this endeavor we are in. I probably only have 10 more years before I can't do this anymore. My next door neighbor was a machinist, but he had to stop when his vision wasn't up to it. That will probably happen to me, and pretty much everyone else.

I'm sure if I had a knee mill and a large lathe, I'd come up with things to do with them. But, at present the work I do for myself and my clients can be accomplished on the smaller equipment I have. The 1228 fulfills the voids that I am aware of with the lathe I have. And then, there is the issue of room. Because of the wide variety of projects I take (not necessarily machining work) I have to be able to move things around.

I love tools too much to allow myself to purchase them unless I know a specific job for them. I already don't have room for anything else. I have more tools that anyone I know personally. And, I can honestly say that all but a tiny few have earned their keep.


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## Franko

Someone, maybe it was in the other 1228 thread mentioned that the 1228 doesn't come stock with a thread chasing dial. 

It isn't that big an issue with me, because I've cut several  dozen successful thrads on my lathe, I never use the thread chasing dial.


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## ronboult

Hi Franko
I believe you have made the right choice with the 1228. If you change chucks or use collets, centres/faceplate you will love the D14 cam lock spindle. I have just upgraded to a Sieg 13x40 and have been playing with the D14 camlock. What a difference to the bolt on chuck on the Sieg SC4. Remove and replace a chuck in less than a minute and the chuck centres on the spindle perfectly. No fiddling bumping to get it recentred. I can now use the right chuck when required rather than making do because it was such a chore to change on the smaller lathe. Also the 2Hp DC motor should be great. Smooth, lots of torque at low speed and quiet. You will soon get used to the touch pad speed control.
Hope your lathe arrives on time and you get a lot of pleasure from it.
Ron


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## Franko

Thanks, Ron. I'm looking forward to it. I think another good reason for the D1-4 mount is that you can find back plates all over the place.

The irony is that I'll only have the 3-jaw scrolling chuck for a while, as the 1228 doesn't come with a 4-jaw chuck and my budget is blown for the next few months.


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## ronboult

If only it was true that D1-4 backplates were easily obtained in Au at least at reasonable cost. I would like to mount an ER collet chuck on my new lathe because the Chinese 3J is not of the highest quality/concentricity. I will probably have to import a backplate with exorbitant shipping cost
Ron


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## Franko

Sorry to hear that, Ron. That's unfair dinkum.


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## ronboult

Hi Franko

Do you have a picture of the 1228. I saw that you listed the specs in another post but have not seen what it looks like. Somebody suggested it was a Sieg SC10. Do you know if that is true?
Ron


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## Franko

I don't know if that is true, Ron. Here is a pic of it.


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## ronboult

The 1228 is almost certainly a rebadged repainted Sieg SC10. Siegs are normally red see http://www.siegind.com/products_detail/&productId=33.html.

They seem to be reasonably good  machines. I like my SC4 ( except for two design features). When fully set up it cuts quite accurately. 

Its interesting that PM thinks they are good enough to sell under his brand. That is very encouraging. Wonder if he intends to sell other models?

I was very tempted to by the SC10. It was a good size and had the major features I wanted. The only reason I didnt was that I thought that the accesories supplied with the SC10 were a bit light, (one chuck, no stand, steadies etc) and that the Runmaster was a lot more machine and accesories for not much more money.

I am sure you will love the SC10 when it arrives. Have fun making lots of chips. Your picture shows it on a stand. Does  the PM machine come with the stand? Here in Au there is no stand or chip tray provided hence my comments about value above.
Ron


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## GA Gyro

Most of Matt's machines (PM), are custom made for Matt and QMT... Matt is a machinist and tells the factory how he wants them made.  
Generally Matt adds some features to make them a good deal... 
And then there is the 3 year warranty...


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## Franko

It does look like the same basic lathe. The only difference I can see is the control pad. I was looking at SC8 earlier that DRO Pros were selling. It didn't come with a lot of accessories, such as steady and follow rests. It looks like that is the case with the SC10, too.

The SC10 is a little more expensive, comes with less accessories and isn't available in the US. And, it's red. Ugh.


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## ronboult

Franko that is a little unkind, mine is BIG and RED! I like to think that Red is the new mans colour.


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## Franko

heh. I have a thing about red. Maybe I should see a psychologist.

My first car, a '64 VW bug was red. After a couple years it started annoying me, so I had it painted black. Big mistake. From then on, it was a red car with black paint on the big parts.

I got it painted after I backed it under a barbed wire fence, right between the fence posts. I could see wire in both the front and rear windows stretched tight over the roof. It sounded like I was scraping along a thorn bush (mesquite tree) or I would have stopped sooner.

It wasn't my fault. I was parked out in the country and the windows were fogged up. My brain was experiencing a temporary shortage of blood and reason.


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## barnbwt

I just ordered one of these (PM1228) as well.  It looks like Matt is sending the same two photos out to everyone, lol.  I was told, as well, that a threading dial would be present, but I'm actually kind of curious to see how that works, exactly, with the power feed knob being on the side of the box and all.  Kind of a funky apron layout, actually.  Some very cursory research on the SC8 (almost no info on the SC10) suggested a dial on the _left_ side of the apron?  What's up with that?

The SIEG SC10 page has a low-res picture that appears to show a 1.5" cubish object in about the right place behind the power feed knob pivot, which I suppose might be a small dial wheel, but the description also says "Cutting all thread pitchs only adjust the gear box handles, no more need changing gears" which is obviously not _quite_ the whole truth, so...

(can't post links yet, obviously, so bear with me on the SIEG page )

I went for the PM1127 initially, but like several others it seems, I opted for the beefier machine, sooner.  We're always told to buy as much lathe as we can afford, and I have to think a 2HP 12x28 is about the limit of what my single GFCI outlet can afford.  Anyone else surprised that the new motor gets another 1/2 HP from a scant one or two more amps at the wall?  I guess DC brushless setups are just that much more efficient?

TCB


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## higgite

I don't see how a thread chasing dial is feasible on the SIEG models as both the SC-10 and SC-8 have telescoping leadscrew covers. The PM-1228's leadscrew isn't covered (going by Franko's pics in post #54), so a dial is doable. I too was wondering if it will be on the left side, since the right side is pretty well taken up by the cross slide feed lever, but I don't see a dial in the photo.

Tom

Edit by higgite: I stand corrected about a thread chasing dial not being feasible with the telescoping leadscrew covers. See Will’s post #64 below. Tom


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## ronboult

Franko unless you are a fanatic like Will (Darkzer0) and clean your lathe twice before use and three time after using that ***** white colour is going to show some oil stains.

I think that as soon as you get it and before using, you should strip completely down and paint it in SIEG RED like all Sieg machines are meant to be!


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## Franko

I have no clue where the thread chasing dial is. I don't know that the 1228 is any beefier than the 1127. Matt said they were very similar. He seemed to imply that the motor on the 1228 was a better motor, not just bigger. I don't know much about motors, so I don't know for sure why. Maybe because it is brushless.


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## darkzero

higgite said:


> I don't see how a thread chasing dial is feasible on the SIEG models as both the SC-10 and SC-8 have telescoping leadscrew covers. The PM-1228's leadscrew isn't covered (going by Franko's pics in post #54), so a dial is doable. I too was wondering if it will be on the left side, since the right side is pretty well taken up by the cross slide feed lever, but I don't see a dial in the photo.
> 
> Tom



I didn't see a thread dial in that one photo posted of the PM1228 but that does not mean anything. 
It's still possible to have a thread dial with leadscrew covers. The current version of the PM1236 has a leadscrew cover & also has a thread dial. In the photos I've seen the leadscrew cover left of the carriage is mounted to the carriage. For the right leadscrew cover I can't tell if it's mounted off the thread dial housing. Kind of awkward if it is though.

I personally don't care for a leadscrew cover. My PM1236 did not come with one & if it had one I'd probably remove the damn things anyway.

Generally the thread dial would be mounted on the same side as the halfnut lever of the carriage so I'm assuming it would be on the right side on the PM1228. It would be annoying to have the thread dial mounted on the opposite side of the half nut.


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## darkzero

ronboult said:


> Franko that is a little unkind, mine is BIG and RED! I like to think that Red is the new mans colour.



Haha, no offence Ron but I'm with Frank. I'm not a fan of red, blue, or the Grizzly green for lathes & mills. Although green is not too bad & I could live with it. I had a HF8x14 that was red. I wanted to paint it but I ended up giving it to my brother. I wasn't to excited on the white & blue stand when I first got my PM lathe but I actually really like the white now. I just never have been a fan of red, like I don't care for red vehicles either. Why can't machines just be gray.


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## Franko

I've looked all over and I can't find any SC10s that have a thread dial mounted. And the one and only pic of the 1236 doesn't seem to have one. The half nut lever is mounted on the front of the 1227 and the thread dial is pretty big and obvious on the right side. The lead screw cover looks like it is a set of nested rings, like a telescope and appears to be attached to the half nuts.

I guess we'll see when we see.



darkzero said:


> ... I personally don't care for a leadscrew cover. My PM1236 did not come with one & if it had one I'd probably remove the damn things anyway. ...



Will, what is it that you don't like about a lead screw cover?


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## Franko

I took back the white paint and traded it for some cans of satin dark taupe. Taupe is a shade of tan, a warm gray. My belt grinder is painted dark taupe and so are my shelves. I think it will look good with PM blue and white, and won't show greasy fingerprints as much. I got some sheets of 220 sandpaper that I'll use with my Porter Cable 1/4 sheet palm sander to sand the paint on the toolbox to make some grain to prep for repaint.

I need to get started welding the trolly. I got some extra pieces of steel  and will dink up some test joints that match the welds I need to do with the same thicknesses  and configurations.

I don't have any table big enough to lay the thing out on. I have a 2' x 3" table and the same size sheet of 1/4" plate, but it isn't particularly flat. I'll clamp it up much like I did my boat trailer. I put the long pieces on saw horses and clamped the parts I was welding square and shimmed them level. The same process on the trolly should work.

I don't weld very often, so when I have a project, I always try to mock up some spare pieces so I can warm up, practice some and get the settings figured out. I can make my mistakes on pieces that don't count.


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## darkzero

Franko said:


> I've looked all over and I can't find any SC10s that have a thread dial mounted. And the one and only pic of the 1236 doesn't seem to have one.



I'm assuming you meant to type 1228 in the last sentence I quoted? Regardless, here's a photo of a tino_ale's latest version of the PM1236. Here youy can just get a glimpse showing that it is possible to have a thread dial & leadscrew covers.











Franko said:


> Will, what is it that you don't like about a lead screw cover?



It's just a personal preference thing. IMO they just look a bit cheesy to me. None of the lathes I've ever used had a problem with the screw getting chips caught in it causing a problem with the halfnuts. I suppose chips could cause issues but I don't worry about it. I just brush the chips off when I feel I need to.

Another reason is the leadscrew covers reduce carriage travel. Probably no big deal as most people probably would never use the full extent of the bed length. Yes the leadscrew covers do telescope but looking at the pic above it looks like it will take up maybe a couple of inches travel. Below is a pic of my PM1236 cranked all the way to the right.

On my HF 8x14 I always ran into travel issues. It has a similar design as the PM1236. On my PM1236, the spindle power lever is what limits the travel to the right. On my HF 8x14 it was the thread dial that limited travel. I would often remove the thread dial to gain a bit of travel.

Again no big deal but ya asked.


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## darkzero

barnbwt said:


> Some very cursory research on the SC8 (almost no info on the SC10) suggested a dial on the _left_ side of the apron? What's up with that?



I too found a pic of a SC8 with the thread dial mounted on the left side. Seems pretty awkward to me but the carriage is not huge so I guess it wouldn't be too bad.


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## Franko

Thanks, Will. I don't learn near as much from yes or no as I do from why.  

I meant to say SC10. There is only one picture of the 1228 (none on the web) and the cross slide on it is identical to the SC10, at least on the outside. As is shown on the pic of the SC8 you posted, it's just about identical, too. Good find.

BTW, I really like the PM1236. If I had room for a longer and heavier lathe, I would have seriously considered that one.


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## mmprestine

A close up shot.  Should be a nice lathe.


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## Franko

I hope so, MM.


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## Franko

I finished all the carving and shaping on the bracket for the leveling casters. One leg of the angle had to be shortened about an inch. I found out my small Miller plasma cutter was not up to cutting 3/8" steel. It took two passes on both sides to make the cut. It wasn't the pretty plasma cut I was hoping for, but it was fairly square and I was able to grind it pretty smooth. It's on the bottom so it can't be seen.

I marked radiuses and the hole for the casters. I knocked off a 45º corner to make for less material to grind to achieve a radius. It wouldn't fit in the band saw so I cut it with a cut-off wheel in a hand grinder. Then I smoothed and shaped the radius on the flap wheel on my bench grinder.

I still need to make a couple of .5" x 3" washers to space the caster down from the bracket. That will allow about .25" of downward adjustment before the wheels hit the floor. I guess I'll start practicing for the welding tomorrow.

So, this is done. It's pretty heavy. The rounded corner appears to have a flat spot in this photo, but it doesn't. It is reflections.


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## Franko

Fabrication of the metal for the wheel trolly is done. Time to starting fretting about the welding.
I am an occasional welder, so I always have to practice before welding a project. I had a gas leak problem with my MIG, but with the help of forum members it got worked out and the MIG is working fine.

Any of you welders out there feel free to point out problems you see.

Yesterday, I tried a couple practice welds on the big angles. I made clamping fixtures to assure my corners are 90º. It is a section of 3 x 3 x 3/6 angle that I checked to be sure it was 90º. I rounded the outside corner for clearance to keep it from getting stuck in case the weld penetrated all the way in. I also spaced out one one side for some stand-off with a section of .25" bar stock. Belt and suspenders.






I beveled the facing edges of the parts and clamped them to my fixture, leaving about a tenth inch gap.






The first practice weld looked pretty good to me. I tacked the ends and ran the bead with an oval weave. It penetrated to about 3/100ths of the inside corner. I don't know if that is good enough or if I should make the gap a little wider. I had the welder set for 1/4" material. The parts are 1/4" and 3/8". Maybe I should set it for 3/8"?

I checked it for square and it was perfect. I feared that the weld would shrink and pull the joint open a little.

I cut a section of the weld and tried an acid test. The acid test was done on the second test weld I did. I got a little off line and had too much stand-off on the end I tested so it wasn't quite as hot as the first weld. It looks like I only got good penetration in the top half of the weld. The bottom half doesn't look fused.


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## Franko

Practice welding is over. Today I finished welding the left side wheel assembly for the stand.
All the is left to weld are the sides to the ends. I'm waiting for the arrival of a spool of 70s5 wire tomorrow
for the multi-pass welds necessary for those welds..

The end bracket is 2 x 3 x 1/4 angle. The wheels are mounted on 2 x 3/8 bar with welded 2 x 1/4 wheel tabs.
The wheel assembly pivots on a 1/2 bolt and can be adjusted with two 1/2-20 bolts against 2 x 2 x 1/4 angle tab.

The round tube under the pivot bolt is a fixture I made to bolt the wheel brackets together and keep them square and spaced correctly while I welded them. It is being used as a spacer to hold the assembly upright for the photo.


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## wrmiller

Nice work Franko, but damn... Looks a bit overkill for a 12x28. That thing would probably hold two of my 1340s just fine.


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## Franko

Thanks, WR. It will need to hold up about 1200 pounds, I figure. I don't think it will break.


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## coolidge

If you plan to move it frequently you will be MUCH happier with the ratcheting version of those Footmaster casters, I have them and the built in ratchet is awesome.


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## brav65

As Tom Lipton says nothing too strong ever broke!  Nice work, I like your design.


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## Franko

coolidge said:


> If you plan to move it frequently you will be MUCH happier with the ratcheting version of those Footmaster casters, I have them and the built in ratchet is awesome.



That may be a great idea, coolidge. Hopefully, I won't be moving it much. It it gets to be to big a pain, I can always upgrade. Cost was probably a factor in choosing the casters I'm using. The ratcheting casters are twice as expensive, and I've already spent some serious money on this stand.



brav65 said:


> As Tom Lipton says nothing too strong ever broke!  Nice work, I like your design.



Brav, I don't intentionally over-engineer things, but I may have gotten carried away on this one. I kinda get a kick out of building things strong enough.  On paper, and even when it was just cut parts, it didn't seem as beefy as it does put together. I'm pretty sure it won't break. I just hope it doesn't wiggle.

I'm just an occasional welder, so my main concern was that I made strong welds.


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## Franko

The next 4 welds are going to be a challenge. I've practiced them plenty and I'm sure I can do the welds, but clamping it up level will be tricky. I don't have a flat and big enough welding table.

When I built my boat trailer, I set it up on saw horses and shimmed and leveled everything. 
I'm too old to work on the floor, so I'm going to try something similar on sticking the frame together. 

I have a 2' x 3' piece of 1/4" steel, but it isn't perfectly flat and about a foot short, but it won't catch on fire. The plan is to use that, and stand the frame up on machinist's jacks and other shims to level everything. I had a section of 3 x 3 x 3/6 angle that is very square. I cut some 3" pieces out of that to clamp the corners square with C-clamps. That system worked well with the test welds.


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## Franko

Ok, I'm set up and ready for the s3 wire spool to arrive. Everything is clamped, square and level.

The putty knife is to guage the gap between the parts.

Don't think that it hasn't occurred to me that I'm going to a butt-load of trouble to put wheels under a tool cabinet that already has wheels.


----------



## coolidge

Franko said:


> That may be a great idea, coolidge. Hopefully, I won't be moving it much. It it gets to be to big a pain, I can always upgrade. Cost was probably a factor in choosing the casters I'm using. The ratcheting casters are twice as expensive, and I've already spent some serious money on this stand.



If you won't have to move it they will be fine. I know a couple people who purchased the style you did were kicking themselves later and wished they had gone with the ratcheting version. I hear you on pricing, what I found was I had to shop around I ended up getting mine for about 40% less than what a lot of places where trying to sell them for. I found the best deal on Amazon, only a couple weeks later though Amazon pricing was through the roof.


----------



## Franko

I shopped a lot to find the best deal on the casters I got. I think I gave about $45 each for them.
Everything in my shop is on wheels because of the variety of projects I'm required to undertake. I don't expect to be moving the lathe on any kind of regular basis. It is just important that I can move it.

The lathe has been in the newly upgraded shop for about 7 months. In that time, I've moved it twice. Once when I decided to put it on the other side of the room, and another time to move a couple feet to make room for the new shop press.

I don't expect the adjusting star wheels to be easy to turn with weight on them. But, I have a plan (to amuse God). There is a 6" deep  ledge of thick angle iron between the wheels. Plenty of room to use a jack to relieve the weight on the wheels while cranking them to rough position. I'll do it about the same as I do when I adjust tension on my band saw. I count turns. On my band saw, it takes 20 quarter turns to remove tension on the blade enough to change and replace it. Then it takes 20 quarter turns to tighten it back up.

If I have to move the lathe, I'll jack it up enough to relieve the weight on the adjusters, and count how many turns it requires to put the wheels on the ground. When I set it back down I'll use the same process in reverse to get it close for fine adjustment under weight.

If that turns into too much trouble, I have the option to solve the problem with cubic money, if I still have any left.


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## Franko

All the big welding is done so the frame is melted together now. This morning I'm fashioning the ledge that the box will sit on.

Yesterday Matt posted that the lathe is waiting to be cleared in customs. So, I suppose it is on the soil of the USA.


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## Franko

I got an email from Nicole today. *My PM1228 vf-lb is in their warehouse!* I made a run to the bank to transfer some funds, and payment is made. I guess it is officially mine, now. 
It should be on the way early next week. It is possible it will be here by next weekend, but I'm not going to hold my breath.


----------



## wrmiller




----------



## lpeedin

The hardest part of the wait for me was when my 1127 arrived at their warehouse.  It may take them a week or two to get it out the door.  I can assure you that you won't be disappointed.


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## Franko

I'll try not to get carried away with excitement. I'm sure the next couple weeks are going to seem longer than the last 12 weeks.


----------



## Franko

This durned thing is finally stuck together. Onward and upward. I welded the angle brackets that the toolbox will sit on by drilling 7/16" holes 6 or so inches apart, clamped them in position and filled them up with hot stuff. I hope I don't have to take them off. It rolls real good.


----------



## MSD0

Great job on the stand so far. Looks like it's going to turn out nice.


----------



## Franko

Thanks, msdo. I emptied the tool box this evening and turned it upside down to make sure the wheel dolly fits. It was very tight but it fits. Whew.

Painting the box is going to be a lot of work. I'm still not sure what color, but right now I'm leaning toward a gray hammered finish.


----------



## Franko

To dispel any rumors that I'm infallible, I offer proof.
The angle brackets that the tool box rests on are welded to the frame with pocket welds. After cutting corner miters, I drilled a series of holes about every 6 inches in the angle. In the heat of drilling, I absent mindedly drilled the holes for one of the end brackets on the wrong leg of the angle.

The idealistic younger me would have never tolerated such an error. The tired and older me does not suffer such perfectionism. I didn't have any more of that angle in the shop and the metal store was closed, so I decreed that the miss-drilled holes would not weaken the structure and used it anyway. I did consider claiming that I drilled them on purpose — drain holes.


----------



## Franko

The pivot bolt that the left side stationary wheels rotate on was originally planned to be pocket welded into the 1/4" angle of the frame. It had to be flush to the inside of the frame to fit over the toolbox. I also had not turned over the tool box to see if the bottom was flat or was recessed. I was concerned that there wasn't enough meat on the 1/4" angle to resist the torque the bolt would be standing.

After turning over the box, I saw that I could cut a notch without effecting the structural integrity of the box. The hole falls right in the middle of the bottom edge. I determined that I should make a 3/8" plate to weld the bolt to which would move the shearing force back from the weld about a half-inch. I cut a notch out of the bottom edge of the box to make clearance for the pivot bolt and its back plate.






I left a gap in the angle box supports just for this eventuality. I had some concern that welding the grade 8 bolt would temper it and make it brittle. I don't think it is a worry because as much as I could see, the heat affected zone doesn't seem to go more than about a 1/4 inch from the weld. The shearing force is 5/8 inch from the weld.


----------



## MSD0

Franko said:


> Thanks, msdo. I emptied the tool box this evening and turned it upside down to make sure the wheel dolly fits. It was very tight but it fits. Whew.
> 
> Painting the box is going to be a lot of work. I'm still not sure what color, but right now I'm leaning toward a gray hammered finish.


The hammered finish should hide most of the imperfections, so might not be too bad prep wise.


----------



## Duker

Franko said:


> To dispel any rumors that I'm infallible, I offer proof..........I decreed that the miss-drilled holes would not weaken the structure and used it anyway. I did consider claiming that I drilled them on purpose — drain holes.
> 
> View attachment 104788



I am right there with you Franko.... What were once errors are now design changes! At least that's my story and I am sticking to it! 

Looking forward to seeing it all together.


----------



## JimDawson

Franko said:


> I did consider claiming that I drilled them on purpose — drain holes.



Pretty sure those were prototype holes.  I make prototypes sometimes also.


----------



## higgite

I call misdrilled holes weep holes. Think about it. 

Tom


----------



## Franko

Glad to hear I'm not the only one to ever miss-drill some holes. Weep holes pretty much says it.

I'm done with the welding. Too bad. I kinda enjoyed welding this last couple weeks. The shop floor has had a lot of grinding dust that's needed sweeping every day. I won't miss that.

Onward and upward. 

I emptied the drawers on the toolbox and have started preparing it for paint. Masking all those ball bearing guides is going to be a pain. I hate paint prep. One fortunate thing. The monsoon we've been suffering this month is going to take a break next week. We've officially broken the all time record for rain in May. I'll be able to take it outside and let the sun do some of the paint curing.

It is supposed to rain tonight and tomorrow. We are only about an inch from breaking the all time record for rain in any month.

Has anyone ever used a liquid sandpaper for prepping a painted surface for new paint?


----------



## brav65

Franko said:


> Glad to hear I'm not the only one to ever miss-drill some holes. Weep holes pretty much says it.
> 
> I'm done with the welding. Too bad. I kinda enjoyed welding this last couple weeks. The shop floor has had a lot of grinding dust that's needed sweeping every day. I won't miss that.
> 
> Onward and upward.
> 
> I emptied the drawers on the toolbox and have started preparing it for paint. Masking all those ball bearing guides is going to be a pain. I hate paint prep. One fortunate thing. The monsoon we've been suffering this month is going to take a break next week. We've officially broken the all time record for rain in May. I'll be able to take it outside and let the sun do some of the paint curing.
> 
> It is supposed to rain tonight and tomorrow. We are only about an inch from breaking the all time record for rain in any month.
> 
> Has anyone ever used a liquid sandpaper for prepping a painted surface for new paint?




I have used deglosser befor. It basically etches the surface chemically to give the paint something to bite on to.  A foam sanding block would probably work just as fast. You do not need to remove the paint just take the gloss off the surface.  Wipe the whole thing off with denatured alchohol or mineral spirits. You could also use an etching primer but that means painting it twice.


----------



## Franko

I've used etching primer on aluminum, Brav. I never thought of using it on a painted surface. I'll have to read the label.
I don't mind spraying a primer if I thought it would improve the adhesion of the new paint.


----------



## Franko

After some pondering, I decided to remove the drawer guides and paint everything. I decided it would be no more effort to drill out the pop rivets than it would to tape around the guides. They are all just secured with one rivet each. The guides in the base are pop riveted, but the drawer guides have hollow rivets. They lock in with tabs and would probably work without rivets, but I think that pop rivets won't stick out enough in the drawers to make any problems. 

I'm considering painting the insides of the drawers with truck bed spray paint. It is tough as nails, won't scratch or chip and will provide a non-slip surface inside the drawers. Plus, it cures very hard and fast. Paint can take months.


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## turnitupper

Franko said:


> After some pondering, I decided to remove the drawer guides and paint everything. I decided it would be no more effort to drill out the pop rivets than it would to tape around the guides. They are all just secured with one rivet each. The guides in the base are pop riveted, but the drawer guides have hollow rivets. They lock in with tabs and would probably work without rivets, but I think that pop rivets won't stick out enough in the drawers to make any problems.
> 
> I'm considering painting the insides of the drawers with truck bed spray paint. It is tough as nails, won't scratch or chip and will provide a non-slip surface inside the drawers. Plus, it cures very hard and fast. Paint can take months.


If it is the pop rivet head that might give problems, use countersunk head pop's. If the tail, use the shortest rivet that will hold, set rivet with gun but do not snap mandrel off. Open riveter handles and slip off the mandrel then tap mandrel through rivet. Peen as necessary.  P.S. I like the idea of the truck bed spray.
John.


----------



## Franko

The case guides are standard pop rivets like you see everywhere. Guides on the drawers are attached with tabs and one dome head hollow rivet that is curled on the opposite side. The only rivet curling tools I have are totally manual and would take three hands to set them, or fairly expensive hollow rivet setter. I don't think 5/32 x /1/8 rivets will cause any obstruction in the drawers.

I power wire brushed the stationary wheels trolly and all the big welded framework. I wiped everything down with low odor paint thinner, primed them and painted them this afternoon.

I pulled all the drawer glides out of the box and washed it inside and out with soapy water. A sheet of 220 grit sandpaper is quartered and one is mounted in PC palm sander. Sanding begins tomorrow afternoon, after my golf tournament.


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## brav65

Looking good Franko, I always feel better when I do it the "right way".  If I don't then every time I look at the job I think to myself, I wish I had...  This puppy is going to be a beautiful home for your new lathe!


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## Franko

Thanks, Brave. After all the work I put in on the wheels, half-assing the box paint started getting to me. 

I stopped by the supplier after my golf tournament this morning and picked up a box of 100 - 5/23 x 1/8 rivets to reattach the drawer slides. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to summon the gumption to sand and paint this afternoon.


----------



## Franko

The box and my nose hairs are gray now.

There was a little more breeze than I expected, so I had to make a breeze screen by bungieing a plastic tarp to my little gantry crane.






I opted not to spray the back of inside the box so as not to gum up the drawer locking mechanism. The sides where the ball-bearing drawer runners go and the inside bottom have a single light coat, doubled up about 6-inches in from the front.

I cut some pieces of cardboard to protect the wheels from over-spray. The box has 2 coats of paint and I think that's probably enough. It took 2 1/2 cans. It is supposed to keep getting warmer and be sunny the rest of the week, so I'll let the sun bake and cure the paint for as long as I can.


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## brav65

Looks great Franko!


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## tmarks11

nice!


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## MSD0

Good job. Did you go with the hammered paint?


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## Franko

Thanks for looking, Brav, Tim, smdo.

Yes, I did go with the hammered finish. I think it looks pretty good. A bit of a metallic sheen. It took a whole can to paint the small drawers. I made a run to Home Depot last night and cleaned out the last two cans they had in stock.

I spent most of yesterday drilling out rivets. The drawer part of the guides were riveted with hollow rivets. I had to try to grab the very flat head on the opposite side with a sharp pair of side cutters to keep them from spinning. It wasn't easy one-handed. I sure could have used some help.

Then, sanding 13 drawers, inside and out. I hate sanding drawers. My old Porter Cable 1/4 sheet sander made the work quicker if not louder. Even so, it took 2-3 hours. I had planned to use 180 grit paper, but as it turned out, I didn't have any, so 220 was it. It did a good job slicking down and dulling the original crinkle finish on the box and drawers.

Drawers are in the painting phase. First the bottoms and sides. Then flip them and the fronts and backs and insides. I expect that it will take me most of today to finish painting them. Lots of flipping and drying. The wind is picking up today, making spraying more difficult. The wind screen I put together is helping some. So far, no sags.

I picked up a couple cans of Duplicolor truck bed liner paint yesterday. The plan is to paint the insides of the drawers with that. It dries very fast and is tough as nails, and requires very little surface prep. Plus the benefit of providing a non-skid surface inside the drawers. The drawers have good heavy duty rubber liners, but the tend to scoot and wrinkle up. I may put them back in, depending on if they don't scoot around on the truck bed liner paint.

The enamel hammered finish paint takes so long to fully harden and cure, that I'm sure they would have gotten all scratched and chipped if I used that. Enamel takse months to fully cure so it will resist chipping and scratching.


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## Franko

I kinda figured I'd have heard from Quality Tools by now. It looks like the new lathe won't make it here this week.

More time for paint to cure.


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## Franko

Whoo Hoo! Finally, it is on its wheels!


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## brav65

Franko that puppy looks sweet!  I think you might need some flames on that thing to complete the look!


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## ronboult

Hi Franko
Looking good.  Looking very good! Any chance of a photo with you standing beside the chest /stand so we can judge the final centre height of the lathe?
Ron


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## Franko

Thanks, brav. Maybe I'll pinstripe it. I used to be a sign painter and our shop decorated several fire trucks with gold leaf and pin striping for a local company that made firetrucks. I even got to drive a couple of them.

All the wheels touch the ground and it seems pretty stout.


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## Franko

Thanks, Ron.
It's just me around here. Maybe Sunday I can get one of my breakfast buddies to take a shot. When I get the drawers in, I can roll it next to my old lathe and stand for a comparison.

If I measured everything right, the top should be about 36" off the floor, 2-inches higher than the old one. I'd rather it wouldn't be, but they don't make big bottom cases any shorter.


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## Franko

After careful checking for holidays and some touch-ups, I believe I'm done spraying the drawers. They need to sit in the sun all day today to cure enough so I can mask them for spraying truck bed liner on the insides.

Still no word on the lathe.

Dead soldiers.


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## mmprestine

Looks good, I love how tuff that hammered paint is.  Maybe you should have bought the $10 quart and $10 harbor freight gun to save some cash.


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## Franko

What $10 quart? It's about $25 a quart. I have a good spray gun, but I don't like spraying enamel with it. Too hard to clean. I doubt a quart would have been enough.

Because I was painting a lot of drawers and only had space to paint in three batches, and considering I had to let them dry and turn them over meant that it took three sprayings to complete each batch to get two coats on the viable sides, over a period of two days. 

It was worth an extra $30 not to have to clean a spray gun 6 times.


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## mmprestine

Only $11.78 here @ Menards. 

I hear ya on the cleaning but nothing is ever easy.


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## brav65

Franko you are shopping at the high $ places because a quart is $11.94 at HD in Phoenix.  I just painted a wood top with the same silver hammered paint using my HVLP gun.  I put 4 coats on and have let the top sit in the garage for the last month to get hard.


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## Franko

I didn't really shop much, brav. I never looked at the price of a quart because I knew I preferred to use aerosol.

I did shop for the best price on the aerosol, which happened to be Home Depot, which generally has the best prices on aerosol paint and being close, I don't have to drive all the way across Dallas.  Doing a quick search, the lowest price I saw a  quart online was at Sears, for about $15.

I'm not lazy or I wouldn't have even painted the box and drawers. But, I rarely do things the hard way — on purpose. If I had the facility and room to hang the drawers so I could paint all them in two passes I may have chosen to use a spray rig. Spraying them in three batches in a succession of work and turn steps as I had to do it, would have been a giant hassle with a spray rig.

They are out in the sun, baking. Horizontal surfaces are about 145º and the vertical surfaces are about 130º. Every time I walk by them, I see a holiday I missed and have to give it a little squirt of paint.

It's been 8 days since they told me my lathe would be on the truck in 4-5 days. I still haven't heard from them.


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## Franko

Whilst the drawers cook, I glued and clamped the top, 2 sheets of 3/4" Baltic birch plywood. 
It took a little more than a pint of Tightbond yellow glue.







I also cleaned all the ball bearing drawer guides and installed them in the case.


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## brav65

Franko while the drawers are out and the drawer guides are clean hit them with some dry silicone lube.  When it dries up it does not attract dust etc.  both PB Blaster and 3in1 offer a dry lube. It is used to lubricate garage door hinges and track.


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## Franko

Thanks brav. I was wondering what I should lube them with.


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## Franko

I spent most of the day masking the 13 drawers to paint the bottoms with truck bed paint. It is hot, so I waited until the sun went down below the trees to spray the paint. That's done now. All that's left to do is peel the masking tape and attach the runners and pull handle covers.

I got an email from Matt this afternoon and he assured me that my lathe will be on the truck next week.


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## sgisler

Looking good!


Stan,
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Franko

Thanks, Stan.

I peeled off all the masking tape, riveted the drawer runners, squirted some Teflon on the drawer guides 
and put the drawers in the box. 
I'm done with the tool box. Whoo! Good Lord that was a pain in the butt. It was too dark to take a picture.


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## brav65

Nice work Franko. You will enjoy that box for many years to come.


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## Franko

I hope so , brav. I took your advise and sprayed a dry teflon lube on the bearings. The lock even works.
I've trimmed the glue edges off the top. Not much I can do with the top until the lathe arrives. Once it does, I can use the drip pan to place the attachment bolt t-nuts and decide if I need some steel reinforcement.


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## bpratl

Great job, first class work. The new lathe will love it.


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## wrmiller

Franko said:


> I'm done with the tool box. Whoo! Good Lord that was a pain in the butt. It was too dark to take a picture.



We'll get to see it when you put your new lathe on it.


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## Franko

Thanks bprati, Bill. Matt will send the lathe when he sends it. I've given up guessing when it will get here. I don't much expect it next week. I'm as ready as I can be whenever it gets here.

There isn't much I can do on the top until the lathe gets here, not knowing the location of mounting holes or dimensions of the drip pan.


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## Franko

Here it is. Nothing left to do until the lathe gets here.
The white paper inserts in the aluminum drawer handles are kinda dirty and stained. Maybe I'll dig around and see if I can come up with something else.


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## Franko

Now to start worrying about how I'm going to lift the lathe on the stand. I was hoping I could get the middle of the box under the hoist.

Not so with it extended to 1/2 ton.






Just barely at the quarter ton setting. I guess I can take some things off the lathe to lighten it.
I really didn't want to be lifting at the top limit of the hoist.


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## Franko

I have this gantry hoist I made years ago. It was able to carry the weight of my mill, which weighs a little under 400 pounds. But, I have no idea what its limit is. Probably the wheels are the weak point. They could be replaced with feet pretty easily.

Perhaps, I could use the engine hoist to get the lathe on the stand, and then use the gantry to carry enough weight to be able to scoot it into position. If the gantry gives out, the lathe would only drop a fraction of an inch.


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## brav65

Franko put one end of the lathe on the gantry and the other end on the engine hoist and roll the cabinet underneath Tina drop the lathe down. Then wheel that snazzy cart into place plug in the lathe and your off!


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## Franko

Good idea, brav. That never occurred to me.


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## AirWolf

That is a beautiful work of art!


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## Franko

Thanks, AirWolf.


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## chuck

Could you make an end shaped like an L, or a Z, attach it to the end of your lift to increase its lift? I have the steel.
Chuck


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## toddimus

Franko, if you charged by the hour, that's a very expensive stand for the lathe.  but when you DIY, the labor is always free. 
We are all envious of the stand you created. Awesome work!!
I opted for the blue PM stand. I cheaped out... And I don't have enough time to do what you've done. 
Cheers to a nice piece of work. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Franko

I really appreciate that Tod. That was a very nice thing to say.

I considered the blue stand, but I really like to have drawers to keep my machine tooling in. The big area under the lathe would not have been put to as efficient use with the stock stand, and space is a premium in my small shop. And, it is very important that I be able to move the lathe.

Timing worked out well, as I did not have any paying work for the last few weeks, so I had the time and I like doing that sort of thing.

The steel, welding wire, wood, casters, attaching parts and paint cost a little more than I would have paid for a blue stand. I already had the tool box which was purchased on sale to use as a temporary kitchen counter and storage when I remodeled my kitchen a few years ago. I figured that you can't have enough tool cases and would come up with a specific use for it later. I had purchased several bottom cases at that time, and the price that I got them was less than I could have built all those drawers. I always had a plan to use them as counter tops and storage drawers for a modular shop space.



chuck said:


> Could you make an end shaped like an L, or a Z, attach it to the end of your lift to increase its lift? I have the steel.
> Chuck



I'm not sure I follow you, Chuck. Are you talking about beefing up my gantry? What part do you see as the weakness?

I don't think I can extend the motor hoist because of the size of the hydraulic jack.


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## Franko

Here is the photo comparison I promised someone a few days ago. Ignore the ugly guy in the blue shirt.
Without knowing the exact center height of the new lathe, I can just guess that it will be 3-4" higher than my old G-4000. The top for the new stand is 2.25" thick.


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## Dman1114

That is a pretty snazzy lathe stand i must say.......       I think the new lathe is gonna dwarf the old one... Your gonna have to take some side by side photos...


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## ronboult

Thanks for the height photo Franko. Both stands seem to be similar height at the moment but with the new wooden top and the extra centre height it looks as though the lathe centre will be at elbow height or a touch higher which is supposed to be just right. Let us know how you find the height after you have used the lathe for a while. 

Having all those draws for tools will be great. My SC4 is on a stand with multiple draws ( but not mobile) but I have lost all that with the new Runmaster which came on its own stand with just one small cupboard at the RHE. Unfortunately the motor is in the LHE cabinet so no possibly of installing draws there. I really miss having all my tools right at the lathe.

Any word on delivery date? We are all hanging in there for you.
Ron


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## Franko

Thanks, Ron. It was a lot of trouble and expense but worth it, I think. Two weeks of hard work on the wheels and paint, but I didn't have anything else going and I enjoy a challenge.

I got an email from Matt Friday afternoon. He promises the lathe will be on the truck next week. That could mean Friday.


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## ronboult

Thats good news, waiting is always hard.

When I first saw the final colour that you painted your chest( when it was outside) I thought that it was just a grey undercoat. Now I see the finished product inside in your latest photo I think it looks really great, VERY STYLISH and a credit to your efforts. It seems to have a burnished metal ( Titanium) look in the photo. I think it will match really well with the colours of the PM lathe and not show soiling very much. Great choice
Ron


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## Franko

Thanks, Ron. It is Rustoleum gray hammer finish. I don't know if you have that down under in Oz. 
In the sun you can see just a touch of very small metal flake.

I hope you are having a pleasant Fall, Ron. Summer is firing up here. I turned on the window air conditioner I put in my shop for the first time yesterday. It isn't as hot as it's going to get, but it was about 90º in the shop. The AC cooled it down about 10º in a half-hour and I could feel a good cool breeze from it all the way from the back to the front of my shop.

Summer is coming. :-(


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## MSD0

Came out really good. Wish I had the time to put together something like that, but really busy and just went with the stand from PM.


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## Franko

Thanks, MSDO.
It was a good project. I enjoyed doing it and didn't have anything else going at the time. I love having a project that makes me want to get up in the morning.


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## Franko

I just got an email from Nicole. My lathe is on the way via UPS freight. Estimated transit is 3 business days, plus a day or so for lift gate residential service. I'm guessing Tuesday or Wednesday.

It is getting real, now.

I guess it is time to clean up and photograph the old Grizzly G-4000 and accessories to post on Craig's List.


----------



## barnbwt

Great to hear, sounds like the lathes are beginning to flow.  I'd better get ready as well and tool up!


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## Franko

UPS Tracking kicked in this morning. ETA is Tuesday. UPS freight also called me and confirmed they will deliver the lathe Tuesday, between 10am and 4pm.


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## wrmiller




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## MSD0

Do you know what's required for break-in as well as regular maintenance (oil, etc.)?


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## Franko

I vaguely remember the break-in procedure for my G-4000. It was something like run it forward 10 minutes, then backwards 10 minutes. I figure it will be in the manual.


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## Franko

I'm considering inlaying a couple plates of 1/4" cold roll in my tabletop to go under each foot of the lathe. Since I have no idea their dimensions and locations, I'll have to wait until the lathe is here. The necessity will depend on if I think the splash pan is stiff enough to support shims if I need to level it.


----------



## wrmiller

Franko said:


> I'm considering inlaying a couple plates of 1/4" cold roll in my tabletop to go under each foot of the lathe. Since I have no idea their dimensions and locations, I'll have to wait until the lathe is here. The necessity will depend on if I think the splash pan is stiff enough to support shims if I need to level it.



I have my little SB sitting on some aluminum plates just to distribute the load across the plywood. I only used one sheet of 3/4" plywood and 3/8" aluminum plate but my little lathe is significantly smaller than yours (~300 lbs)


----------



## Franko

I put an ad up on Craig's List late this afternoon after cleaning it up and taking photos yesterday. I'm getting a pretty good response from my ad, with 5 replies already.

Here is a link to the ad: http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/tls/5073126796.html


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## roadie33

That should sell quickly.
GLWS


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## Franko

Good news. I sold the G-4000 to the first person that came to look at it. No haggling, I got my price, plus he purchased the QCTP. I gave him a good deal on the QCTP because I had it modified so it would work on the G-4000.

The PM1228 is equipped with one. I'll use the funds from the old one to get some more tool holders.


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## sgisler

That was quick, great!


Stan,
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## roadie33

I knew it wouldn't last long at that price.
If I lived closer I would have taken it.
It would come in handy for those smaller parts or threading that always need to be done.


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## Franko

I don't feel bad about selling it anyone, Mike. It was a good lathe. I could have gotten a little more for it, but $700 seemed like a fair price for a $1,000 machine.


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## roadie33

Now you can get some more tooling to go with the new lathe.


----------



## Franko

Well, today is the big day. UPS Freight says the lathe will be delivered between 10am and 3pm.
Unfortunately, the monsoon is coming. Tropical storm Bill is predicted to pass over the Dallas area Wednesday, and heavy rain and flooding is expected for the next 3-4 days.

I have an 8 foot shed roof in front of my garage that can put a roof over it, but it still gets wet there. Until I see the size of the pallet it's on, I don't know that it will fit inside the door of my closed in shop, or if I can even get my engine hoist over it enough to lift it off the pallet.

I have a fairly large hydraulic lift table with big good wheels that I was hoping to be able to hoist the lathe on so I can move it, once un-crated. Hopefully I can hoist it on the lift table and be able to roll it in the shop for dry keeping while I work on the table top and mounting holes.

Otherwise, I may be tortured by having to wrap it up tight in plastic and wait 3-4 days for the rain to pass. I'm not sure I have enough maturity to do that. :-(


----------



## roadie33

I know I would have a hard time doing that.
Just knowing I have a new machine just itching to be used and not being able to, would be pure torture.
Good luck and I hope the rain holds off for you.


----------



## jbolt

It will be super easy to un-crate and move. We did our 1127 in less than 30 minutes including assembling the factory stand. We lifted it onto the stand with the typical HF engine hoist fully extended with no problems. 

Enjoy you new lathe.

Jay


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## Franko

jbolt said:


> It will be super easy to un-crate and move. We did our 1127 in less than 30 minutes including assembling the factory stand. We lifted it onto the stand with the typical HF engine hoist fully extended with no problems.
> Enjoy you new lathe.
> Jay



Thanks, Jay. 
I can't just uncrate it and lift it on the stand. I have to finish the top of the stand. It has to be cut to length, mounting holes and T-nuts installed and painted. This is stuff I couldn't do before I get it, since I don't know the dimensions of the pan, lathe feet and mounting hole spacing. So, the lathe will have to sit somewhere for about a day, while all that happens.


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## roadie33

Don't forget the pictures when it arrives and the uncrating  process.


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## Franko

It arrived about an hour ago. Everything looks to be undamaged, except for one of the skids on the lathe crate. No big deal.

My first impression is that it is a lot bigger than I imagined it. A lot. It looks _huge_ compared to my old G4000.

Not everything got here. The chip pan was not included in this shipment. I talked to Matt and he said they came with the stands and nobody noticed. It will arrive soon, he says. That's not good for me. I can't really do much on the table top without it for locating the mounting holes. I also wanted to cut the top to match the length of the chip pan. So, I'm stuck.

The thread chasing dial also did not get here. Matt assures me that they will send it as soon as they have them.
And, another surprise. My fault, bad reading on my part. The PM1228 does not include a QCTP. I wish I'd noticed that because I sold my AXA QCTP with the Grizzly. I've already ordered some extra tool holders. I just ordered another AXA QCTP on Amazon. I have no idea who makes it, but looks the same as my old one and is a wedge type 100.

Here's pictures. The crate seems undamaged, except for one of the skids.










After removing a bunch of staples and a few screws, the top came off in one piece.
I can put the top back on to protect it from the coming storms. Probably throw a tarp over, too.






I pulled the plastic off and there it is!


----------



## Duker

Glad to see it got there without damage. Definitely wrap it back up as I am on vacation at Inks lake and it is raining big time and heading your way!


----------



## roadie33

That looks to be a sweet looking machine Franko.
Bet you can't wait to get it bolted down, fired up and turning some chips out.


----------



## Franko

Thanks Duker, Mike.

This is frustrating, because I can't do anything until the chip pan gets here.

I lifted the lathe off the pallet and repaired the skid on the crate. The nails had pulled out and it rotated sideways. I straightened it, put long screws and then set it all down on a couple of 4x4s.

I now know that my little gantry hoist is strong enough to hold the weight of the lathe, 
because it did when I removed the pallet.  I had to take the wheels off for it fit under the shed roof.


----------



## brav65

Awesome Franko!  She looks beautiful and will look great on the nice home you prepared for her.


----------



## barnbwt

I must say, I'm a little let down; I was looking forward to at least some assembly required.  That thing looks practically ready to go out of the box!  While you wait for the chip pan,  you'll at least have time to get everything inspected, cleaned, and lubricated, so no real loss.  It's good to finally see the machine from a different angle, as we only had the one photo to go on, before.

Franko, how wide was your crate?  I'm REALLY hoping I can fit the boxed item alongside the car for the duration of the storms, or that the stand/machine are easy to assemble quickly.  If only one can fit, the lathe is gonna have to brave the elements, and that box looks a good bit wider 

TCB


----------



## MSD0

Congrats. Looks really nice.


----------



## Franko

I hope so, Brav.

Did I mention that it is huge? I know it isn't a 14" lathe, but holy smoke, it is big. It is twice as big as my Grizzly was.

We are in between arms of tropical storm Bill, so it's taking a break from raining. I took advantage of the time to poke around on the lathe some.

The manual has a dimensioned drawing of the mounting hole locations. If I can get Matt or someone from Quality Tools to send me some dimensions of the chip pan, I can get started on the bench top. At least I can cut it to length, drill the mounting holes and install T-nuts, and paint it so will be ready when the chip pan arrives. It is possible I will become overly anxious and mount the lathe before the chip pan gets here.

The new QCTP should arrive Thursday. The extra tool holders will be here tomorrow.

I measured the feet of the lathe bed so I can purchase a couple pieces of 1/4" cold rolled steel to embed in the bench top to give the lathe a firm purchase on the top. The mounting holes are between the ways. I don't much like that, but that's what it is. I considered extending the cold rolled plate out past the sides and making some adjusting screws to true the bed, but I don't think I'm going to do that.

I need to find out how accurate of a machinist level will suffice for truing the bed. Some of them are accurate to .0001", which is a few seconds of a degree. The ones I could possibly afford are good to .001. Maybe I'll post an item for discussion. I don't see myself forking out $500 for a level.

I thought it came with a 4-jaw chuck, but it doesn't. I got mixed up between the accessories of  the PM1227 and PM1228.
I probably should be ashamed to admit it, but I never used the 4-jaw chuck that came with my Grizzly.

It also doesn't come with a tailstock chuck or live center. I purchased a Chinese Jacobs  5/8" drill chuck and taper a couple weeks ago. I hope it will do. 

I have a cool MT2 live center with multiple size and shape centers. I purchased a MT-2 to MT-3 bushing for it at the same time I ordered the drill chuck.

The tailstock quick lock it cool. It isn't a cam lock, but a bolt that goes all the way to the top of the tailstock and is tightened with a lever nut like the tailstock quill lock.

The estimate says it comes with a D1-4 cam lock chuck, but the manual says it is a D1-5. I have no idea how to tell the difference.
I removed whichever chuck it is to lighten it up some. That's awesome. It took some taps with a soft hammer to loosen the cams, but once they were loosened, it just dropped right off. They aren't kidding when they say to put a piece of plywood over the ways.

I had a moment of panic with I took off the 4-way tool post. There was a shoulder around the mounting bolt. I remembered reading about Sieg lathe compounds haveing to be milled down to accept a QCTP.






But, I also notice that the bolt and shoulder were black which clued me that it might screw out.
I does, but you have to loosen a sneaky little set screw on the back of the compound.


----------



## Franko

barnbwt said:


> Franko, how wide was your crate?  I'm REALLY hoping I can fit the boxed item alongside the car for the duration of the storms, or that the stand/machine are easy to assemble quickly.  If only one can fit, the lathe is gonna have to brave the elements, and that box looks a good bit wider
> 
> TCB



TCB, the crate is 27.5" wide, 25.5" high and 61.25" long. The pallet is 40" wide.

I hate that I'm having to keep it boxed up. I want to look at it.

I can't do too much with it until the rain stops. I don't want to clean off the oil until I can put it in out of the weather.
I've considered renting a pallet jack so I can move it inside the shop. It wouldn't go through the door with the pallet attached when he delivered it. I can clean the accessories and the chuck and tailstock. I don't see why I couldn't plug it in and do the test runs, that's about it until the rain stops.


----------



## Dan_Austin

UPS has not updated my tracking status since Friday morning in Ohio, but if their estimate is accurate
I might be able to get the pan measured tomorrow afternoon...


----------



## Franko

Dan_Austin said:


> UPS has not updated my tracking status since Friday morning in Ohio, but if their estimate is accurate
> I might be able to get the pan measured tomorrow afternoon...



That would be great, Dan. (Assuming they send a pan with your PM1228) They will if you ordered the stand.

Here's what I need to know. It doesn’t need to be exact. Accuracy to a 10th of an inch will suffice, so you can just estimate the center of the hole.
Don’t need a drawing unless you want to. Just label dimensions A, B to front, B to back, and C.

A.  length and width of the chip pan.

B. to front. Distance from the center of the mounting holes to the front of the pan.
B. to back. Distance from the center of the mounting holes to the back of the pan.

C. distance from the center of the right (closest to the edge) tailstock mounting hole to the right edge of the chip pan.
  The holes closest together are the tailstock end.


----------



## wrmiller

D1-4 (what I have) is 3 pin. D1-5 is 6 pin I believe.


----------



## sgisler

Franko, I've got about 5' of 1/4"x4 CRS drop that I could cut what you need (if the 4" is wide enough). Actually, you're welcome to all of it if it works for you. Also have a 12" Starrett level you're welcome to borrow. 


Stan,
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ronboult

Hi Franko
Your new lathe looks great. You will love the D14 spindle mount particularly if you buy a 4J or a collet chuck. You might even use the 4J if it is quick and easy to mount. The quick change GB is also great . No change gears! When you bought the 3MT to 2 MT adapter for your tailstock did to get one long enough that it will eject. I had to get a 4MT to 3MT for mine and it is too short and now stuck in the tail stock taper. When I get it out I am going to have to extend it somehow.
My Sieg also came with an old style 4 place rotating toolpost. It also had a mounting post with a larger flange at the bottom like yours. You are very lucky that yours screwed out. With mine I had to drill out a roll pin from the back side then press the post out backwards.
I had to completely remove the compound to do it. Do you know if the hole size in your compound is the right size for an AXA Toolpost? My BXA has a 16mm or  5/8"post but I don't know the size of the hole in a AXA. You might be lucky again!

When I was looking at the picture of your new lathe I was wondering what it would look like in a REAL SIEG RED.  Just imagine you would not have had to repaint your nice new Red Tool Box

Enjoy playing with your new toy
Ron


----------



## Franko

Thanks Ron. I'm anxious to get this thing spinning.
There are a few gears to change, even with a change box. I think I saw 3 or 4 gears in the greasy bag.

Yes, I kept the tool post from the AXA I sold, and it has the same threads. Matt said he had them made that way so they would take the QCTPs he sells.

I don't know about the length of the morse tapers for the tailstock. It it is too long, I'll cut it down. If it is too short I'll drill and tap a hole for a bolt so it will eject. I had to customize a couple tapers for my Grizzly tailstock.

My time to fiddle with it has been limited by the heavy rain we are suffering.

I had a lively discussion on a thread I started about machinist's levels. As a result, I decided to order a Starrett 98 series 8" level and some plastic shim stock from Little Machine Shop and some brass shim stock on eBay.


----------



## Franko

ronboult said:


> I had to get a 4MT to 3MT for mine and it is too short and now stuck in the tail stock taper. When I get it out I am going to have to extend it somehow.
> Ron



I lucked out, Ron. Both the Morse tapers I got for the drill chuck and the adapter for the live center are too long by about 8 mm. Easy to fix.

I think one of my morse tapers is threaded on the small end. I can only assume that is so you can screw a bolt to tune it to right length. I don't know how hard MTs are. You might be able to drill and tap for a bolt, or maybe just drill and press in a dowel to the right length so it will eject.


----------



## Franko

I solved the mystery of the chuck. The manual says it is a D1-5. The estimate sheet said it was a D1-4.

How to tell the difference? Easy. Google D1 chuck specifications.

A D1-5 has six .75" diameter pins.
A D1-4 has three .625" diameter pins.

Mine is a D1-4 as advertised.

Here is a link and graphic if anyone is interested.
http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Lathe_Spindle_Mount.html


----------



## wrmiller

I thought I said that... (just teasing Frank)


----------



## Franko

You did say that, Bill. I missed it.


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## Dan_Austin

Good news, I did order the stand, so I do have a chip pan coming.
More good news, the lathe and mill arrived at the UPS depot 40 miles away at 4:30 this morning.
Bad news, I realized that I likely did not give Matt my current contact number.
Good news, I called UPS at 8:00 AM and gave them the correct number.  I was told to expect a call by 2:00

I got the call at 1:50 PM and was told to expect delivery between 2:00 and 6:00 tomorrow.  I work one mile
from home, but dispatch could not guarantee I would be called before hand, so I will be playing hooky in the
afternoon and can get the pan measured soon after the crates make it into my garage.


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## Franko

Good news, Dan. I anxiously await.....
At least it will arrive after the monsoon.

Let's hope it arrives in better shape than barnbwt's 1228 crate. Did you see that?

It rained pretty hard most of the day here. I haven't even peeked at mine all day. I did pour some mineral spirits a little flat pan and clean all the loose stuff, as well as the extra AXA tool holders that arrived today. And, I picked up a couple pieces of steel to put under the feet.


----------



## Dan_Austin

I saw that.  The dispatcher mentioned they would be happy to leave the crates
in front of my garage if I was unable to be home.  Yeah right.  I'll be here to
note damage before signing for anything...

I guess one positive side to the CA drought is no moisture risk between the truck
and garage...


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## Franko

My crate was pretty tight, if not somewhat flimsy. The lathe and everything in the crate is slathered with waxy oil and covered by a sheet of plastic, so it was pretty safe from moisture.

I got tracking info on my chip pan. It will be here by Friday night.

A couple other things maybe worth mentioning. It is supposed to be equipped with a thread chasing dial, but it won't arrive with the machine. Matt says he'll send them out when he gets them.

The other thing is the cross slide vernier is in inches but registers .080 per revolution. Matt says he will send out an upgrade kit to change it to .100 per revolution (I think that's what he meant), though I don't know how that would happen. Seems like the cross slide lead screw would have to be replaced. Don't quote me on this. I may not have understood what he said. But, some sort of upgrade for the cross slide will be sent.

I got the 1/4" plates for supporting the lathe feet. My original thought was to route out a recess in the top for them. The odds of accomplishing a perfectly flat bottomed recess are remote. The new plan is to build up the top with 1/4" plywood to bring the surface of the bench top even with the plates. I just happen to have enough Baltic birch plywood that actually is 1/4" for the task.

It is sunny this morning. Rain is not predicted until later this afternoon. I think I'll take the cover off so I can admire my lathe. I haven't seen it in a day.


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## roadie33

Don't forget the dew rag to wipe the drool off while gazing at it.


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## Franko

Mostly it is perspiration, Mike.

Ok, the weather can do its worse. I lifted it off the skid base and set it down on my hydraulic lift table. Now I can roll it around.

In the process, I figured how to lift it on the stand with the engine hoist only. I have the sling up close to the head stock, and the cross slide cranked as close to the headstock as it will go, moving the center of mass to the headstock end. Then a heavy duty ratchet tie-down strap from the hoist hook to a little further towards the tail stock. I can adjust the tilt with the ratchet. The lifting point is only a couple feet from the left end (where the yellow lifting strap is).

I removed the belt from the greasy pulleys, and wiped it down a bit to remove most of the oil.

Here it is, on the hydraulic table with the big wheels. It is inside now.


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## roadie33

I knew you would figure out a way to get it inside to play with it.
BTW 
What kind of Milling Machine do you have and how do you like it?


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## Franko

I can't play with it very much, but at least I can look at now.

I have a Grizzly G-0619 (6 x 21) Deluxe Small mill, Mike. I'd prefer a larger knee mill, but I need to be able to move it. My Grizzly has done most of the things I've asked of it, it has some cool features and is nicely equipped with a power x-feed and Absolute DROs.


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## ronboult

Hi Franko
Changing the Crosslide leadsrew & nut will not be difficult. Having 0.100 per rev will make it much easier to keep track of total travel.  Its interesting that Sieg  are fitting strange combos to their machine. Do you think it has a metric leascrew with an imperial vernier?  My lathe has metric leadscrews throughout but the tailstock came with a 4mm pitch tailstock but a 2.45 division vernier. Why? New correct vernier supposedly on the way. Probably take months to Au. You are lucky to have a dealer like Matt looking after you.

Enjoy setting up your new machine. It only happens once. It wont be long now before you are making chips.

Can I ask about the power x feed on your Grizzly G0619 mill. Is it the standard Grizzly / Seig powerfeed and if so can you place the forward / reverse lever into a mid position so that the powerfeed is disconected from the leadscrew for manual feed?
Ron


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## Franko

Ron, the powerfeed is the one Grizzly sells for that mill. The neutral position on the lever does not disconnect it completely. You can still feel the magnets in the motor as though there are .0005" detents.


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## tmarks11

D1-4 chucks are easier to come by, and you have three less cam-locks to operate every time you change chucks.

The only advantage of a D1-5 is you could have a larger bore... except if you look at a sampling of D1-5 vs D1-4, you don't see a lot of difference.

Sure, D1-5 might be more rigid, but I think on the typical 12-14" chinese lathe, the chuck mounting is not the limiting factor.


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## barnbwt

I dunno; I'm finding that D1-5 and D1-6 chucks are far more common at practically the same price, and that purpose-built D1-4 4-jaw chucks are actually fairly expensive, at ~200$ minimum, whereas your plain-back versions are over 50$ less.  My plan is the plain-back route with an older, quality American chuck and mate it to a lowly Chinese D1-4 backplate (which are ~50$ for most examples).  Part of me wonders if the spindle plate on the PM1228 can simply be changed to a D1-5 version.

TCB


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## Franko

TCB, how much damage was done to your lathe? I'm guessing the gear access door was bent some and maybe the back splash. Did the steady and follow rests stay inside?

I found a 4-jaw D1-4 at Grizzly for $163. There are others that are $600 and up. Way up.

D1-4 is probably plenty sufficient for a 12" lathe.

I've gotten to look the lathe over some this afternoon. The more I see, the more I like. I really like that the screws that loosen and tighten the compound rotation are on the top. They were under the ring on my Grizzly, and I had to grind down a 10mm wrench to even get to them.

Matt didn't send me dimensions from the chip pan. It is supposed to get here tomorrow. I guess I start the bench top then. I hope UPS doesn't have me last on their route.

The casting quality is miserable. The inside surfaces are gritty looking and the square holes on the bottom of the feet are very ragged. What's milled it terrific, but the rest is pretty rough.


----------



## roadie33

Thanks for the info on the Griz Mill Franko. Does Grizzly ever have coupons or discounts on their mills?
I am planning on getting something next month for sure but hate paying that much for a small mill.
I've been looking around at different ones and got a line on a Bridgeport J Head but it might be more than I need or can fit in the shop.


----------



## Dan_Austin

My mill and lathe arrived today.  The driver had no issues with the mill, but I thought
he was going to launch the lathe A over T.  His lift gate was not large enough, and the
depot had loaded it tailstock first, so he had the heavy end dangling as it came down.

He did however know what he was doing and did get it on the ground safely.  The
lathe did shift in the crate during transit, and the lower pallet did not support the
upper pallet very well.  The driver noted both on the paperwork before I signed off.
The lathe it self appears undamaged, except the spindle pass through cover is MIA. 
I am not sure if the carriage wheel is damaged (first lathe), but it has about half an
inch of  play, sliding in allows it to engage and move carriage. When slide out it free wheels.

I did measure the chip pan.  I did miss one measurement on the sketch, which is likely
more helpful than the distance from the TS side of the chip pan to the first hole on that
side.  The missing measurement is the distance between the inner holes, 35.5"


----------



## Franko

Thanks, Dan. I appreciate it. Now I can start working on the bench top tomorrow!

The feed wheel disengages when you pull it out. It is supposed to.

Tell me what you think about the manual. It seems skimpy on the controls, to me. On the break-in and test, it skips testing it in reverse. It says to run it forward twice.

It doesn't really make clear what the order of procedure to turn it on and off is.


----------



## Franko

Dan_Austin said:


> I did measure the chip pan.  I did miss one measurement on the sketch, which is likely
> more helpful than the distance from the TS side of the chip pan to the first hole on that
> side.  The missing measurement is the distance between the inner holes, 35.5"



The manual has the exact dimensions between all the holes, so I don't need them. 
Are your measurements from the center of the holes to the outside edge of the pan or to the inner lip? I need it to the outside edge.
I also need the length and width of the pan.


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## coolidge

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## Dan_Austin

Thanks for the info on the feed wheel.

I put the pan on the stand to make measuring easier and went from the back and side edges.
The outside dimensions are 59" X 22.125"

The manual does seem a tad light, but it is worlds better than what came with the PM-25.


----------



## Franko

Thanks, Dan. That's what I needed to know.

The only other manuals I've seen are for Grizzly and my HF mini-lathe. They are both very good manuals.


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## barnbwt

How's this for an idea; use the four milling attachment bolt holes on the back of the bed to mount a small hoist for chucks and workpieces?


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## Franko

Not a bad idea, barnbwt. A few more years at the rate I'm deteriorating, and I'll need one to lift cutters. 

My chip pan arrived this morning about an hour ago.


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## Falcon67

Big Rack said:


> Are you buying the basic lathe or the tooled up version? I'm looking at this same lathe and Grizzlies G4003 and G4003G, what conviced you? I like the varible speed I assume it's a VFD, I don't like the spindle  mount and I would like a lower minimum speed. the G4003G with stand is $3550 shipped the PM is $3087 shipped with stand I'm kinda leaning to the G4003G. Did you read the manual about to make your chuck (if not concentric) run concentric that kinda scared me.
> I've never owned either and am trying to get the most for my money.



thread hijack in progress LOL - might open this up in another forum in the form of a question, but having both (now) and 9x20 and a 12x36 and can attest to what Franko says above.  My 9x20 has been a good machine.  Light duty for sure.  I'd never owned a lathe and was unsure.  The 12x36 was also in the HF store and it was BIG.  So I bought small.  I also bought a mini-mill.  Since I do some things with hot rods, meaning bigger chunks of stuff I was pretty quick to learn that 1) a lathe and a mill are dand-gum handy things to have and 2) I bought kinda small.  The mill is already gone, replaced with a square column G0519 mill/drill.  I make a lot of small transmission fittings (sold all over the world) and those have more than paid for the small lathe.  Light machining on aluminum and the 9x20 almost never has that setup off the machine.  I can hit +/- .001 on that operation usually.  But if I want to spin a 50 lb crankshaft 24" long for polish - got to have something larger.  Or spin a piston to fix/clean a ring groove.  And such.  Truth - the Enco 12x36 has not found a way to pay for it's self yet.  But I'm sure it will soon.  You have to really think about what you'll be doing with the tool.  I'm pretty sure I could make my small fittings on the big machine, just haven't tried it yet.  If you opt for a bigger machine, get the best quality you can afford because I'm sure smaller operations would be impacted more by a low quality machine than some larger operations.

PS - Frank, I just love that little grinder/mag base setup.


----------



## Franko

Thanks, Chris.

I probably would have kept the G4000 if was variable speed and had a large spindle bore, and I needed just a couple more inches in length. Those were the major factors that inspired me to upgrade my lathe. I would have liked to put a 6" chuck on it too, but I thought it would be a little too big and heavy for the smaller lathe. I didn't figure out the slow speed issue until a couple hours before I sold it.

I don't have anything bad to say about Grizzly Tools, based on my experience. They are responsive and seemed to always have spare parts.

I'm busy today working on the bench top for my stand. It is hot out there. I'm only good for less than a half hour at a time, then I have to come in and dry off and cool down.


----------



## Franko

After lots of measuring and measuring again, I drilled the mounting holes on my bench top. My drill press wasn't deep enough, so I had to use the mill, which had a half-inch to spare. Each hole required four bit changes. A half inch to start because my pilot point bits only go to 1/2". Then a 1 1/4" forstner to recess the 1/2" t-nut, then a 9/16 for the bolt hole and finally a little touch with a 5/8 so the t-nut would press in.

I just clamped the top to the mill table with a quick clamp.







This is a cool thing I picked up a few weeks ago to support long pieces in my drill press and horizontal band saw. It is a lab lift table, so I can fine-adjust a support. On the horizontal band saw, it sits on a milk crate. It replaced the old scissor jack that always fell over when I moved the stock.


----------



## DoogieB

Ahh, lab lift, that will come in handy.  Perusing Ebay at this moment.   Like you, for these set-ups I tried an old scissor jack and had the same problem: it was heavier than needed, hard to adjust and always wanted to fall over.  

There's always good nuggets in threads like this.


----------



## Franko

Doogie, I found the best deal on Amazon. It was a little under $30.
It is 8x8 and lifts 10". 
There were some smaller ones for around $20.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00657ZTIU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00


----------



## Big Rack

Kinda off and on topic: why are leveling screw vibration dampers so expensive? Here is what I'm going to try, bought some 3/8-16 carriage bolts and washers large enough to slip over the square part at TSC last night I think I'm going to center the washers on the dome and tack weld in place that takes care of leveling. Also spent 2.99 at Wally world for a pair of flip flops going to cut circles out of them with a holesaw and glue to washers. The flip flop bottoms seem to be pretty high density foam and I'm spreading the load out on several of them hope it works.


----------



## Franko

Big Rack, I've used carriage bolts into t-nuts for leveling feet. They work fine for some purposes.


----------



## Franko

Ok, today is the big day. Chuck the welder came over this afternoon to give me an extra hand lifting my lathe on the stand. It all went very smoothly with no hitches. We were able to do with the engine hoist.

I got a couple pieces of 1/4" cold roll steel to put under the feet of the lathe. I was going to imbed them in the wood top, but decided to just put them under the feet above the chip pan. I painted them to discourage rust.










Ok, here are the money shots. I'll be wiping grease off it for several days.
I'll put the back splash on after I think I've gotten most of the shipping oil off.


----------



## DoogieB

Wow, the lathe is bigger than I thought it would be!  I have one of those 44" Red Roller toolboxes so that's a good size reference for me.

Maybe you can tuck-in one of the side cabinets on the left side?  You can never have enough storage space.


----------



## Franko

Yeah, Doogie, that is not a small tool box. The overhang on the ends is more than I originally planned for when I ordered the PM1127. Even though this is a 28" lathe, I think it is 5-6" longer. Everything is very sturdy and the lathe stand is solid.

I made some chips on it this evening. It works great. I haven't leveled anything yet. I did check the ways with my new Starrett level. It looks like there is about two lines difference between the chuck and the tailstock. I'm not how much twist that is. The Starrett is supposed to be accurate to .005 per 12 inches. I guess each line is equal to .005. Maybe the twist I'm seeing comes to .005, since the ways are 6.5" apart.

But, the lathe is considerably higher than I would prefer. I've done all I can to lower it. The cross slide handle is about 3" above my elbow. It isn't uncomfortable, but it feels much different than my old Grizzly. I guess I'll either get used to it or make me a platform to stand on in front of the lathe. I can see the top of the tools without tip-toeing.

I am disappointed with one big thing. The cross slide is too high for an AXA QCTP. With the bottom of the tool holders all the way down on the compound slide, a 1/2" cutter is about a twentieth of an inch above center.

I regret selling the AXA QCTP with my Grizzly. I had the tool holders ground down about 40 thousandths so they would work. It was very expensive and I'll not do that again.

I wonder if the tool holders for indexed tools are hardened? If not, I could mill a few thousandths off of them so they'd be the right height. I doubt 40 thousandths would weaken a 1/2" tool enough to notice. If they were hardened, the set screws wouldn't mark them, would they?

I guess there is one way to find out. Clamp one up in the mill and see what happens.


----------



## Muskt

That setup looks really nice, Franko---Congrats.
As a previous 9x20 owner also, I faced a similar situation to that which you now have, namely bed twist.  I wrote a treatise on the Yahoo 9x20 forum several years ago concerning how I measured the twist.  I never claimed that it is correct; however, it may give you an idea or two as to how to start determining how much your machine is twisted.  I'll enclose the whole blurb below, and hope you find something of value in it.

Jerry in Delaware

"Since there are several new members to the group, I am re-posting a blurb on "leveling" that I initially posted in April of 09. I do not claim that it is a definitive "how to", only a description of how I went about it.

Before I go any farther, I need to clarify one important point. The term "leveling" is generally meant to mean to check the bed of the lathe for parallelism (meaning that it is straight & not twisted). Being level really has little meaning for a lathe, other than being a starting point for the check.

The following is my earlier post:

"All the discussions about "leveling" has gotten me to thinking about my machine.

I have a Starrett 98-6 level. It is advertised to give accuracy of 0.005 inches over 1 foot per gradation.

I went out to the garage/shop & removed the plinth from my cross slide.

I cleaned it (the cross slide) well and placed the level in the center (perpendicular to the ways) and moved the carraige till the level was just under the chuck jaws.

Next, I shimmed the far end till the level read "zero".

I marked the near way and then moved the carriage 18 inches toward the tail stock end (I had removed the tail stock.).

I read the level, & it showed that the far side way had risen two & one half (2 1/2 ) gradations. At 0.005 inches per grad, I determined that the bed was twisted approximately 0.0125 inches over the 18 inches of travel.

Not good, I think. Twelve & a half thous is a lot. Time to do some thinking.

So far, I just have a number that looks large to me.

How that number translates into real live turning is the important thing to me, not just the number.

Here are my thoughts & reasoning behind my conclusion (which I haven't revealed yet).

This is a bit convoluted, so bear with me.

I know that my bed is twisted, so how can I determine the effect on turning (leave the HS alignment completely out of the equation for now).
I must know the amount that the cutter moves into or away from the work, not how much the bed is twisted. I can calculate that amount by determining the height of the cutter from the cross slide (the point that the measurement was taken from). I placed a dead center in the chuck and measured the height from the cross slide to the center of the dead center and determined it to be 3.687 inches. Now I construct a right triangle (mathematically--not a real triangle) with a base leg of 12 inches and a vertical leg of 3.687 inches. If I set the triangle on the cross slide with the 90 degree angle exactly below the center of the spindle axis and the base leg on the cross slide pointing away from me and then raise the far end of the triangle 0.0125 inches, the point that is under the spindle center will move toward me.

HOW MUCH?

I set up a proportion equation and arrived at 0.00384 inches. WOW, that is quite a bit. OK, so I didn't account for radial movement of the theoretical points. I will just accept that the curve of the very small arc will be a straight line--so if anyone wants to argue about that --- DON'T.

Continuing on.

Remember, though, that that number (0.00384) isn't arrived at at the spindle, it is 18 inches toward the TS.

Here is my conclusion.

If I divide the 0.00384 deviation by the 18 inches , I arrive at 0.00021 per inch of deviation due to bed twist. That is not nearly so terrible as I had initially thought.

The story continues......

When I made the measurements, last evening, I had been at the lathe for at least 30-45 minutes with my "work lights" on. My lights are 2 150 watt halogens that shine on the lathe from above and to the rear. I know they put out a lot of heat. I live in Alaska, & my garage/shop normally (in the winter)(yes, it is winter here) remains at around 50 degrees F.

I went out this morning and quickly tried it again (I had left the level & shims in place when I quit for the evening).
The level still showed "zero" at the chuck end, but only 2 grads high on the TS end. Wow, that is a 20% difference just due to the possible effects of the lights warming the lathe unevenly.

My lathe is not bolted on the TS end, it just sits on a riser with a bolt acting as a pin to prevent sliding.

I really don't know where I was going with this entire exercise, I just felt like doing something.

So, to you the members, the practical machinists, the theoretical machinists, and the home shop tinkerers, have at it. What did I do that is wrong/stupid/incorrect? I can handle the criticism without getting upset.

The next project will be to check/adjust the HS alignment, again (I haven't checked if for a couple of years)."

Jerry in Anchorage"


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## Franko

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Jerry.

I hadn't thought of putting the level on the cross slide. That makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure how the top of the bevels on the cross slide are crucial measuring points.

The only reason I put the level on the lathe yesterday was because I have a new level and just wanted to see what it said. At this early juncture, there isn't any point in trying to zero the relationship of the ways.

The bench top is plywood. I glued it up as flat as I could, but I'm sure there is some twist and warp in it. For that matter, there was no way to determine how square and true the tool box is. My guess (and it is only a guess) is that it is all going to settle into a fairly stable state after a few days or weeks.

There is also some adjustment and manipulation as to exactly where the lathe and stand is going to live in my shop. Some things are having to get moved around and rearranged to accommodate the much bigger machine. So, at this point, I haven't even made any effort to level the stand, much less adjust the ways.


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## MSD0

Looks really nice Franco. Bummer about the tool post, but I bet the tool holders could be machined down.


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## jbolt

Franko said:


> I am disappointed with one big thing. The cross slide is too high for an AXA QCTP. With the bottom of the tool holders all the way down on the compound slide, a 1/2" cutter is about a twentieth of an inch above center.



We had the same problem with our 1127LB. The crazy part was that it came with the QCTP that would never work as delivered. PM's solution was to send us instructions on how to modify the compound slide base. Fortunately I have a mill and could do the modifications but what if a customer didn't have a mill or access to one? Not cool.

I am over all pleased with the PM products but these kind of issues need to be address before new machines are ready to release to customers.

You might be able to modify the compound base vs. machining a bunch of tool holders.

Good luck!

Jay


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## Franko

Thanks, MSDO, Jay. 

Nothing I had would machine the tool holders. They are very hard.  
My sharpest carbide end mill just made feathered sparks. All I was able to do was polish them.
I had to have them surface ground down for the Grizzly, at a hefty price. 
I don't plan to have that done again at $40 each. 

I'll try to shave some off the stems of the insert tools I have. I don't think they are hardened.

Here is a shot for scale.
(ignore the man behind the blue curtain)


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## wrmiller

Franko,

After looking at that compound design for a fair amount of time, I would take about .100" off the bottom of that massive block that the compound sits on. It has twice as much material than either of the compound pieces have so it is certainly not the weak link in the system that's for sure.

Just an idea...


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## Franko

Funny you should say so, Bill.

Matt just replied to my email about it and said they are modifying that very part and a replacement will be sent to us fairly soon. (who knows what that means) 
He said that was in the design specs and the factory failed to do it.

He offered to mill mine down if I didn't have a mill and am in a big hurry. I can live with using 3/8 tools for a while. That's as good service as I can expect.

If I get in the mood and feel like doing it, it should be a very easy modification.

If I just have to use the 1/2 tools, there is always the 4-way that is very easy to switch.

For the time being, I think I've found a good spot for the lathe. I put a level on the wheels and made some adjustments to bring the stand to pretty close to perfect level. I had to replace the thick washer I made to space down the leveling casters. I found some 1" hole washers and shimmed the holes in two of them on each caster with flattened out 5/8" lock washers, which lowered the right side about 1/4".

It is all level now and the feet are cranked down to the floor. The stand is rock solid. It doesn't wiggle a bit no matter how hard I try to shake it.

I checked the ways with my machinist level and they are off about two marks on the vial. I'm not going to try to shim them straight until the plywood bench top has a week or two to settle. It should flatten out pretty good with 500 pounds pressing down on it.


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## wrmiller

Great minds think alike? (Don't tell Matt I said that...)

I have been putting a considerable amount of time and thought into redesigning the compound on my SB, and when I looked at yours that was the first thing that jumped out. 

Glad to hear that Matt is taking care of ya.


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## Franko

I got in the mood and felt like doing it, 
so I took off the compound slide and turntable and removed the knife rest turntable seat (the thing under the compound turntable). 
It has a t-slot circle milled into the top of it for the turntable, so I milled .050" off the bottom side with a facing tool.

A 1/2" tool is almost at perfect height with the tool holder down to the compound. Just a slight turn on the adjuster brings it up to perfectly centered. If I ever take it off again, I'll probably mill off another .020.

So, the QCTP issue on my lathe is fixed.


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## roadie33

That looks like a good machine there Franko. Now that you have the height problem on the tool rest fixed.
I would work on getting the whole machine lower. That looks to be uncomfortable to work on at that height.
Have you thought of just using a single plate of 1/4" or 3/8" steel, instead of the plywood, that would take out 1-1/2".


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## Franko

Mike, an inch and half wouldn't be worth doing. The cost of a good straight piece of steel to replace the wood could be a couple hundred dollars. Not worth it for the small change in height it would provide.

I would prefer it to be much lower so I could sit on a tall stool when doing long operations. I haven't used it enough to know whether I'll be able to get used to it at the height it is. It isn't uncomfortable operating the hand wheels or controls, and I can see the top of the tool when it is cutting, so visibility isn't a problem. I can just see the tool on the piece over the QCTP. Other than that, I don't mind everything being up closer to my head. The veneer dials are at a good distance for my bifocals without having to stoop over as I did with the other lathe.

The x-wheel is well below my elbows and the cross slide has a power feed so that will cut down on a lot of turning that wheel, which is 3" above my elbows.

My other lathe was much lower and that is what I am used to. I'll give it a while to get used to. If I can't and get uncomfortable, I guess I'll have to come up with a plan B. Plan B might be a platform to stand on.


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## Franko

I asked Matt about the rough finish on the casting. He said it is a cost issue. For the factory to grind the insides of the castings would cost an extra 2 or 3 hundred dollars. The things that count are done very well with very good tolerances.


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## tmarks11

Franko said:


> I asked Matt about the rough finish on the casting.


A lot of times, the smooth finish on castings is just a layer of bondo (or equivalent) smeared on top and sanded and painted.

Does not add to the functionality at all.


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## catoctin

tmarks11 said:


> A lot of times, the smooth finish on castings is just a layer of bondo (or equivalent) smeared on top and sanded and painted.
> 
> Does not add to the functionality at all.


Bondo also hides casting voids.  I recall someone on the forum running into one while mounting a DRO.

-Joe


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## barnbwt

Functionality is added by you not scratching up your hands booting the thing down


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## DoogieB

Glad to see you got your QCTP worked out as I was surprised to see a 12" lathe having trouble with an AXA-sized toolpost, but you definitely went the correct route by modifying your machine and not all your toolholders.  The more toolholders you can buy and use the better as they save so much time and frustration as everything is ready-to-use.

As far as the height issue, I would go on the floor with the spring boards from 1x4's as mentioned in this thread:

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/anti-fatigue-mats.26955/

You can probably make the boards a bit higher if you need to.  As well as the height extension for you, the boards save your back and knee's from that hard, cold concrete.  I have to make do with a foam pad as my lathe, a SB 10K, is already a bit low for me.  I need to find a nice, fat round to make some feet to get the lathe up a bit.

Looking at your lathe and it's healthy-sized spindle bore for it's size, it would seem it would work really well with a collet system.  Have you thought about collets yet?  It seems that 5C would work really well.


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## Franko

Doogie, it is possible a 5C collet set is in my future. I've always been satisfied with the tolerances I've gotten with a 3-jaw scrolling chuck. That could change if I get into projects that require more precision.

It seems like a slat anti-fatigue mat would hold chips and spider webs. I have used foam anti-fatigue mats and even they complicate cleaning up chips. I'm in a very unfamiliar and bizarre phase lately. I sweep up the shop every day and even sometimes more often if I'm doing a job that makes lots of swarf. I like the shop floor to be clean, but more importantly and practically, it cuts down on the crud I track into my house.

It is possible I will get over this crazy obsessive phase of my life, and get back to normal.

I think if I make a platform, it will be made of plywood on a frame with smooth sides and a closed bottom that won't fill up with spiders and their weavings. It will provide shock absorption and be easier to clean. (Anyway, that's my theory.)

Standing on concrete is very hard on my feet. That's one reason I liked using a stool.


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## roadie33

I use the mats from HF and put another solid floor mat on top. Makes it real soft. Clean up is easy. I just roll the top mat up and shake it out over the big trash can. Vac up around the rest and done in a few minutes.


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## roadie33

Franko, How's the new Lathe working out?
kinda quiet lately so you must be making a lot of chips.


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## Franko

Last couple of days have required some shop rearrangement to accommodate the much larger lathe.

I removed the shop press to under the shed roof in front of the garage. I had made new heavier feet for so it could have wheels when I first got it, but never painted them. Thay needed to be removed and painted so they won't rust outside.







The small wooden bench needed to be lightened up and made more movable. I stored a 1-ton arbor press and some other heavies on it and on the under shelf. I put up a small shelf in the corner to hold the heavies.

And, of course some chip making to see how slick it will cut on some scrap aluminum tube.









The cut looks 'baby-butt' smooth to me.


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## barnbwt

Let's just...assume, that I'm a moron that can't read directions; is there some special trick to engaging the power feed/traverse, or is it just super hitchy?  My half-nuts engage well enough (very haltingly since they're tight) but the power lever, twisted toward either direction (talk about a funky control system) is solidly locked in every direction of motion.  There's some play, but a very solid 'something' blocking additional motion toward engagement.  My suspicion is it either takes a really long time for all the new gears to align (my gross-rate 3-position gear knob is like this, and appears to only function at a specific gear mesh point and is otherwise locked out) or the half-nut interlock that prevents feed/thread being both engaged is out of whack and the feed knob 'thinks' the nuts are always engaged.  Oh well, made a few token chips just for funsies using the threading feed (I need to either get a real chuck key --mine is missing so I'm using a 3/8" ratchet-- or really lay into the thing, since a 1" diameter aluminum tube was spinning in the chuck WAY easier than I've ever seen before.  Chuck was definitely tightening, so I'm wondering if the jaw finish is slippery or something)

I also completed my first 'mod' to the busted-up gearbox door that doesn't fit my setup well anyway.  Some scrap hot-roll sheet of similar gage, a beefy piece of bar to beat the edges over, some quick dimensions & pop-rivets, and Bob's-your-uncle.  Yeah right, it was way more tedious than that to get everything to line up (especially since the drip-line flange inside the lid had to be folded at the back for the lid to shut right) and to get those annoying hinge screws attached with the thing against the wall, but I think it's done, for now (paint & cleaning comes later, if ever).  Fits real good, now, and I can still get the door about 1/2 way open to easily access the change gear and spindle (looks like enough thread for a spider at some point).  More importantly, I can use the lathe, now (door safety switch made it kind of hard to check things out, hence the mod before function check).  FYI, there is nothing retaining the door hinge pins; they ends are peened, but they are two pins inserted at each end that are disguised to look like a properly retained pin; replacement is advised.

One other thing I discovered whilst wrestling with the door; this stand is laughably flexible.  I'm kinda ****** since it cost about 400$ with shipping, and I can rock the thing front-to-back a good 1/2" or so with little effort at the natural frequency.  I had a feeling that linear bolt patter was going to be an issue, so now it looks like I'll be sourcing some 1/2" thick plate to make wide footing with, then figuring out how to bolt through the stand with some proper shanked fasteners.  Hell, I may be sourcing 100$ worth of angle iron and hiring a buddy to just replace the damn thing.

I finished my inventory, and the only 'important' missing stuff was the cross slide handle, spare V belt, one of the external 3 jaw jaws, and the chuck key.  Many small odds and ends that I have equivalents of already, and even more random fasteners were either omitted or worked loose (the screws holding the primary electrical board down were never installed, and the backsplash had only one fastener left at delivery).  Trying really hard not to see this thing as a sow's ear, and if I can get the power feed to work, I'll know for sure.

I have a couple other quick mods planned; bought a cheap but much nicer RPM gage/display that looks like it should fit the window in the 1228, and a volt/ammeter & display to go somewhere else as cheap fuse insurance (my garage has no access to the building's breaker panel) just in case.  Got a like-new '46 Skinner " 4-jaw, and a fresh backplate is on its way for fitting.  Test/dial indicators should be here this week so I can get the 'real' checkout done.

TCB


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## Franko

TCB, you aren't a moron. The manual does not cover how to operate the longitudinal and cross feed lever.

On the top of the lever are arrows. Front and back for cross feed, and left and right for longitudinal feed.

Turn the handle 180º to select which direction you want to feed.

To engage the feed, pull the handle towards you and move it up for longitudinal or down for cross feed.
It will only move in the direction of the feed selected indicated on the lever.
You may have to jiggle the change gear knobs to engage the feed gears.
If the threading screw and hex rod aren't turning, they aren't engaged.

The chart on the top describes what settings are required for different feed rates.

I had no problem with the linear bolt pattern. Your issue is with the stand. The stand I made is rock solid. For additional support, I got a couple 1/4" cold roll plates about an inch larger than the footprint of the feet and put them between the pan and the feet. (8" x 7" and 8" x 12")
If you purchase cold roll, be sure it is sawed and not sheared. Shearing warps it.

For your issue, a couple of plates the size of the stands would surely stiffen it up. 
Probably a couple pieces of 3/4" plywood would work.
I don't know how thin the top is, but I'd bet that is the source of the flexing. Use 1/2" bolts are recommended in the manual.

I don't think it supposed to come with an extra belt. It is a regular v-belt and I don't see it wearing out for a long time.

Sorry to hear about the other missing parts.


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## barnbwt

"To engage the feed, pull the handle towards you and move it up for longitudinal or down for cross feed."
Figures.  The one degree of freedom I didn't yank the knob along.  Still bugs me that the lever moves identically for both feed directions --seems less than safe, kind of like having the E-stop on the far side of the chuck.  Whatevs, we'll try again in the morning before work.  Thanks for the info, that was gonna drive me nuts all night.

I thought about just procuring an old tooling or gaging plate somewhere and having it torched in half for the feet.  I think you're right that if I can just beam the load out to the vertical webs of the bases, all will be well.  Cold roll is probably more available and easier to drill, though, and plenty stiff enough.  The table top was like 1/8" thick or less and with no stiffeners, as I recall, so I'm not super surprised a 5" wide base wobbles a bit.  Probably gonna bolt a piece of beefy channel iron up inside the supports opposite the feet, too.  I haven't attached the lower/center panel yet since I need access under the machine, but I doubt it would stiffen things significantly in that direction.

TCB


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## Dan_Austin

The parts list suggest an extra belt, but the manual also indicates the lathe ships without the belt installed,
so I think one belt is it.

The feed level had me stumped as well, and the manual did not help.  The operation makes perfect sense
once I figured it out.

The stand is not very impressive for the price, but I have not found it to be too floppy.  Better bracing between
the legs might go a longs ways towards stiffening it up.


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## tmarks11

Also, sometimes you have to slightly move the carriage travel handwheel to engage longitudinal feed if the gears aren't meshing (or cross slide handwheel to engage cross feed).

Flimsy sheet metal stands are a curse of lathes until you hit a certain price range.


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## Franko

The manual does mention rotating the feed handle, but does not mention that you have to pull it out to engage it.
Chuck the welder was with me and we managed to figure it out. He discovered pulling the handle and I discovered jiggling the change gear knobs.

I was concerned about accidentally engaging the y or x feed by pulling up or down, but I think they way it is implemented is fairly idiot proof — even though I've been known to excel at idiocy on occasion. You have to make a change by rotating the handle before you can switch between x and y feed. Also, by having to pull on it, it isn't going to be accidentally engaged if drop something on it or bump into it.

So, all in all, it seems as safe as it can be.


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## barnbwt

I'll just have to get used to looking down, more.  Anyway, the power feed works (thanks) but only in two directions so far (right and away) so there is more work to be done.  It briefly fed to the right, but I can't replicate it.  Super hitchy, grindy action that requires a bit of force the first few times.  Not sure how it 'checked out' for function before it shipped, unless I'm missing something.  Feed rod wasn't damaged, btw, thought the lead screw is slightly bowed (.02 --not worried)


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## Franko

TCB, refer to page 22 in the manual for how to reverse feed.


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## barnbwt

So, the feed direction is a change gear operation?  I really wish I'd known how funky & limited the control layout for the apron is; I'd have gone for the 1127 instead.  The typo(s) and translation in the instructions for change gears make it extremely unclear, but I'm guessing we are to rotate the upper banjo for this maneuver, and the lower to accomodate the threading gears.  Since there's only two positions for the upper, I wonder if a push-pin setup could work for much faster tool-free change over?  Maybe even a latching lever that sticks out the front of the door?


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## barnbwt

Franko, do you hear any noise at all from the spindle while it is running?  I can hear a quiet, unmuffled (i.e. outside the headstock) 'brushing,' sort of like a soft material against a smooth surface, while in operation.  I'm guessing it is the outer bearing seal, which I'm only hearing since the gearbox is almost comically silent while running, and not something ominous (a 200lb box was bouncing off the top of the chuck/spindle on the drive down once the crate collapsed, after all).


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## tmarks11

barnbwt said:


> So, the feed direction is a change gear operation?


I don't really see that as much of a limitation.  I very seldom feed left to right, and I have never fed back to front while cutting. When resetting from a cut, it is always quicker to use the hand wheel to get the carriage (or cross slide) back to the starting position.

Until you get to a 12x lathe with a Norton QCGB, lathes tend to have very limited functions in their QCGB, and many feed changes and almost all threading involves swapping change gears.


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## Franko

I don't hear any noises that sound wrong on mine. It runs very smooth and quiet compared to my old lathe.

I agree with Tim about the feed reversal. It doesn't seem like an issue to worry about to me.

The 1127 has a feed direction lever, but it only accommodates two speeds. For more, you have to change gears.
With only one selector lever on the QCGB, it looks to me like there would be a lot more gear changes required under the lid of the 1127.


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## barnbwt

"Until you get to a 12x lathe with a Norton QCGB, lathes tend to have very limited functions in their QCGB, and many feed changes and almost all threading involves swapping change gears."
Yeah, I know, but that's the size I learned on, and I am adverse to change .  Nah, I was really hoping to essentially get a 12x36 with a short bed in the 1228, and for the most part that's true, with the exception of the carriage/apron setup that is still a bit in the 'funky' mini lathe mindset.  A single knob that pivots up/down/left/right would have been absolutely awesome in my book, but what we have is enough if I can get it to be a tool-less operation.  I won't do a ton of off-size threading, so my intention is to mess with gear changes as little as possible.  I will do a lot of boring, however, so the ability to set up at an internal shoulder, plunge a bit, then feed out to the right for a smooth surface without having to time anything is desirable.  I'm sure traverse from the center outward is similarly useful, since our perspective is even less informative for tool position front/back (and good old lookin' is a good companion for dials and DROs as a sanity check)

As far as being slower to return to the start of the cut, it's worth mentioning I have no cross slide handle, lol (for now; PM is helping me out, there)

It's not very loud at all, Franko, just not silent-running like the gears.  Like I said, it's kind of unusual for that to be the case, that something is louder than the noisy clashing of gears.


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## Franko

I asked Matt if the 1228 was a shorter version of the 1236. It isn't. The 1236 is a more robust lathe.


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## Franko

I'm working on the little stuff now.

First, I had to cut 7/16" off the MT3 tapers for my live center and drill chuck to get full length on the quill travel.
And, a custom wrench for my QCTP.







Now they don't eject until the quill is about an eighth past zero.









And, last but not least, riser block to stand on in front of the lathe. It is 3" tall by 16" wide.
Taller would be better, but it would interfere with the bottom drawers.
I put a handle on the side to make it easier to pick up and move.
At that width, I can sit on a stool to peruse my lower drawers.
My knees don't squat any more.


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## MSD0

I'm jealous of your shop-so organized and clean. The lathe and stand look really good.


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## barnbwt

Nice!  If it's got enough spring in it to have anti-fatigue properties, it'll definitely be easier to clean than a soft mat.  Do my eyes deceive me, or are the two holes in the headstock behind your spindle open?  Those two are what hold the main PC card down, and were not present on mine, either.  I think they're like M6 or something, from the parts list.

"I asked Matt if the 1228 was a shorter version of the 1236. It isn't. The 1236 is a more robust lathe."
Oh, I could tell that from the weights; I was referring to feature set, which is very similar between the 1228 and typical 1236's (MT5 spindle, MT3 tailstock, D1-4 cam lock, ~2HP motor, power cross feed, separate lead/feed rods, selectable gears).  A friend's 12x36 Chicom uses the same tapers, chucks, tailstock, horsepower (though 3-phase and higher amp draw), and apart from overall bulk differs only in having a selectable third change gear (ours is manual) and beefier BXA QCTP.  Also some minor controls layout differences (selectable feed/thread direction knob).  That feature set is what sold me on the lathe as a good starter/trainer piece.

TCB


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## Franko

Thanks, MSDO. 
Hey, it is a new shop and a new lathe. Hasn't had time to get messy yet.  
Actually, I sweep it every day to keep from tracking chips and grindings in the house. I just built the shop last fall, so it is still new and shiny to me. 
All the tools used to be in my garage with the table saw and wood working tools, so they were always covered in sawdust.

TCB, Those holes have screws in them from the inside. Something's probably screwed on from the inside and the threaded holes were drilled through.

I started out with the platform 20" wide. It didn't need to be that wide, so I unscrewed it an cut it down to 16". That way I can stand it up and stick it out of the way in a smaller corner when I'm not using the lathe.


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## wrmiller

Franko,

I too had to 'trim' my tailstock arbors, for both of my lathes. BTW I have the same South Bend drill chuck and have been very happy with mine. I have several SB pieces for the small lathe and while a little spendy, they are a better quality piece IMO.

My small lathe sits on a 40" tool box lower and sits at an ideal height for my 6'3" frame. I wish my 1340 sat as high because if I spend too much time on it my lower back starts to get grumpy. We ain't getting any younger...*sigh*


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## Franko

Bill, the drill chuck seems pretty solid. It does have a little hitch in middle of travel. I'm hoping that will smooth out with use.

I have mixed feelings about the height of my lathe. Visibility is great up high as it is. But, it means I have to stand up the any time it is running. I was able to sit on a tall stool with other one during long repetitive cuts.


----------



## Franko

More minor things to make the shop more convenient.

I made a trip to AceMart restaurant supply and picked up some SS baking pans. It is handy to have shallow pans to keep parts organized during projects.

I got a couple of bigger pans to put in the chip pan under where the cutting is happening to make cleaning them out easier.
The first photo also shows my new Shars piston QCTP that replaces the wedge type I didn't like. It was hinky inserting and removing the tool holders. The new Shars piston is smooth as butter.

I'm thinking of making a shield that will attach to the saddle and hang out 6 or 8 inches over the ways to shield them from swarf. Probably attach it with magnets.







The two deeper pans are for parts cleaning. Just pour in a little odorless mineral spirits and use a chip brush.


----------



## Franko

This isn't part of the lathe preparations, but it is a project I'm starting. I plan to make some knurled knobs to replace the t-handles on a few of my C-clamps. This is my first serious try at knurling. Well, not too serious. I didn't trim the tube to the recommended diameter. I just squashed the knurler in and trimmed around the edges.

It was with my coarse 16 lpi knurler. It is just a double wheel and doesn't pivot. Setting the height was finicky.

The stock is pretty beat up but ok for a test run. It was also a test to see how smooth I could cut.


----------



## Franko

This is the first actual project on the PM1228. I made a couple knobs for c-clamps. It is first actual knurling project.
The knurls got better with each one. The first couple turned a little counter-clockwise and weren't cutting on the left side. I adjusted and tried to re-cut them, but they're kinda sloppy. The third one, I had learned that I needed to turn the tool post about a degree to the right and from there they got better.

The pin is 1/4" stainless pressed in. Thought I'd have to glue them, but they're stuck in pretty good.


----------



## Franko

I stamped some numbers on my chuck.
I don't know why chucks don't come stamped with numbers.

The numbers on the jaws are almost invisible and unreadable. I need to figure a way to mark the chuck jaws with something I can see. Anyone ever acid etched an image on steel?


----------



## brav65

Looking good Franko!


----------



## ronboult

Frank what sort of knurling tool are you using. Is it a scissor type that squeezes the material or is it one that is pressed against the side of the shaft? 

Are your chuck jaws so hard that if you remove them you still can't use a number punch on them. Alternatively there are electric engraving tools that will mark hard materials such as glass etc. I think they have carbide tips
Ron


----------



## Franko

Oh, yes, Ron. The chuck jaws are hard as woodpecker lips. I have a buzzer engraver with a carbide tip. I tried one tap with my dies, and got nothing. I'm not even sure the engraving buzzer will make much of a mark.

I'm looking at several electro-etching options online. I've seen a couple that use a battery charger, vinegar and salt or water and salt. Using a vinyl tape stencil, hook positive on the work piece and dab a swab wetted with the solution hooked to the negative. I'd like to etch the numbers on the outside ends of the jaws.

If I don't go to all that trouble, I could just use a diamond wheel on a Dremel and make 1, 2, and 3 lines on the ends.

The outside chuck jaws are fine, numbered clear as you please.

My knurler is the one that came with my QCTP. It is a two wheel pivot. The wheels and pivot axles are loose so the wheels rotate so the right side digs in and leaves the left side light or not even touched. I have to turn the tool to the right about a degree plus to get even pressure across the width of the tool.

I'm sure that somewhere I own a scissor type knurler. But, durned if I know where it is. Cranking so hard to press in the knurls, I have to watch my QCTP, or it will rotate under the pressure.

I cut a couple more knobs for a couple smaller c-clamp knobs. Using Kentucky windage they came out pretty near perfect.






I'm into c-clamp improvements so I tried another Idea I had last night. I made a couple knobs with long coupling nuts bored out to fit the clamp screw. The coupling nuts were around and old and corroded. I cleaned them half heartedly with a bench grinder brush but they are still a bit stained.

The coupling nuts give good purchase to hand tighten and the option of using a socket on a power screwdriver  to run them up or open them fast. A vast improvement in c-clampology. Or, using socket drive handle they can be hand tightened almost too tight.

The coupling nuts aren't as arty, but I think they are a good idea and a 4th the effort.


----------



## AirWolf

I really like your knurled handles....and both ideas I'm going to mooch....


----------



## Franko

You are welcome to it, Air Wolf. I stopped by my nut and bolt place this afternoon and picked up an assortment of coupling nuts. I'm going to put them on my bigger c-clamps.

They had some very cool c-clamps in the store. They had a quick release like the clamps on cut-off saws so you could quickly move the clamp in and out. I'm sure they were costy, but very cool. I didn't even ask.


----------



## Franko

It worries me that I'm putting so much pressure with my cross slide to knurl. I looked everywhere for the clamp-style knurler I thought I had. I must have dreamed about owning one.

I ordered a Shars that looks ok. The price is right and I've been pleased with the other Shars tools I've purchased.


----------



## brav65

Franko said:


> It worries me that I'm putting so much pressure with my cross slide to knurl. I looked everywhere for the clamp-style knurler I thought I had. I must have dreamed about owning one.
> 
> I ordered a Shars that looks ok. The price is right and I've been pleased with the other Shars tools I've purchased.
> 
> View attachment 106552




Hey Franko I have collected a number of different plans for knurling tools if this does not work let me know and I will send you the 4 or 5 designs I have collected.


----------



## Franko

Thanks, brav, that's a generous offer. I hope I don't have to take you up on it.


----------



## wrmiller

Franko said:


> It worries me that I'm putting so much pressure with my cross slide to knurl. I looked everywhere for the clamp-style knurler I thought I had. I must have dreamed about owning one.
> 
> I ordered a Shars that looks ok. The price is right and I've been pleased with the other Shars tools I've purchased.
> 
> View attachment 106552



I have a similar scissors style knurling tool and it works very well. Most of the smaller lathes in the hobby realm do not have the rigidity/mass to push a knurl into a work piece using the compound, nor do I feel the need to stress my machine just to prove I can (or can't). The scissors type I have was purchased from a vendor in GB if I remember correctly. I have been thinking of making one of a similar design but larger so I can do bigger pieces.


----------



## Franko

It looks like the tightening screw is a little wimpy on the Shars I ordered. Grizzly had one that looked a lot more robust, but there was no info on it's max opening.


----------



## Sandia

Franko said:


> I stamped some numbers on my chuck.
> I don't know why chucks don't come stamped with numbers.
> 
> The numbers on the jaws are almost invisible and unreadable. I need to figure a way to mark the chuck jaws with something I can see. Anyone ever acid etched an image on steel?
> 
> View attachment 106394




Franko, the numbers on my chuck jaw which came with my Acer 14X40 is stamped on the slot between the jaws and the scroll teeth, if that makes sense. Might check there.


----------



## Franko

Bob, I was speaking of the chuck itself. Chuck jaws do have numbers, though on mine they are barely readable.

I've heard it is best to put the jaws back in the same slots. Maybe not necessary, but it is important to put them in 1-2-3 order.


----------



## Sandia

Franko said:


> Bob, I was speaking of the chuck itself. Chuck jaws do have numbers, though on mine they are barely readable.
> 
> I've heard it is best to put the jaws back in the same slots. Maybe not necessary, but it is important to put them in 1-2-3 order.




Oh, got ya. The numbers on mine is hard to read as well. Mine is marked somewhere but I don't recall where on the chuck body.


----------



## Franko

The jaws on my chuck are pretty tight. Turning them in and out can be a chore.
I started looking around the shop for something to make a crank handle. I measured the chuck wrench and discovered it is 3/8"
I've got 3/8 crank handles all over the shop, including electric powered ones. How convenient. I don't have to make anything.

I think the ratchet wrench is a much better chuck wrench than the t-handle wrench it came with.
The speed wrench is great for opening and closing the jaws to the extremes.


----------



## bpratl

Franko said:


> I'm sure that somewhere I own a scissor type knurler. But, durned if I know where it is. Cranking so hard to press in the knurls, I have to watch my QCTP, or it will rotate under the pressure.


Franko, I had the same problem with the QCTP rotating until someone told me to place a piece of "Brown paper bag" under the tool post. It worked. Bob


----------



## turnitupper

I have used paper bags over the years for a myriad of things and now here is another use.
John.


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## roadie33

Franko,
I know what you mean about cranking the chucks in or out. I use my Dewalt impact driver with a 3/8" or 1/4"  socket adapter in it to speed up opening or closing the big 8"  or smaller 6" chucks. 
Sure makes it easier than trying to hold the T Handle in and turn at the same time.


----------



## Franko

bpratl said:


> Franko, I had the same problem with the QCTP rotating until someone told me to place a piece of "Brown paper bag" under the tool post. It worked. Bob



Thanks Bob. If that works, it will be the tip of the month for me!
Do you make a full gasket, or just a slip on one side?



roadie33 said:


> Franko,
> I know what you mean about cranking the chucks in or out. I use my Dewalt impact driver with a 3/8" or 1/4"  socket adapter in it to speed up opening or closing the big 8"  or smaller 6" chucks.
> Sure makes it easier than trying to hold the T Handle in and turn at the same time.



It wouldn't work with my earlier mill because of the size of the chuck wrench. I don't know why it took me so long to realize that a 3/8" socket drive would work.

I was gearing up to go to all kinds of trouble and expense to make a crank handwheel for it, trying to figure out how to fit a piece of key stock in an extra hand-wheel I had.


----------



## roadie33

Thinking to hard again. Franko.
I found when I start doing that, I take a break and do something else, then the light bulb comes on ( a little dimmer nowadays) and the easier solution will usually hit you.


----------



## Franko

As often as not, Mike, the easier solution doesn't occur to me until I have completed the complicated solution.

Actually, I have been mulling the problem for about a week.
I had several plans:

1.   Get an extra t-wrench and modify the handle to an "L" so I could crank it.

2.  Make a clamp-on L handle fixture for the wrench I have.

I didn't really like either of those solutions because the geometry was bad, the t-chuck key is so long and it would still be a two-handed operation.

3.  Then I remembered the extra crank wheel handle and 3/8" key stock I had, so how to thread a bit of the key stock to 10 mm threads (I don't have a 4-jaw chuck yet).

4.  Eureka! It's 3/8", you idiot. Use your socket wrenches.

I tried an impact driver drill last night and it worked, but I found the clatter and vibration worrisome. I do plan to use a cordless clutched non-impact drill or the speed handle to turn the chuck jaws when I need to move them a lot, but I think the ratchet socket wrench is going to be my go-to chuck key.


----------



## bpratl

Franko said:


> Thanks Bob. If that works, it will be the tip of the month for me!
> Do you make a full gasket, or just a slip on one side?


It has to be Brown paper ( shopping bag) to work properly. I cut a hole in the center and made it the full size of the QCTP. Bob


----------



## wrmiller

Many times I have grabbed a couple of pieces of notebook paper when attempting to hold small parts in a vise. It simply adds some grip between two metal surfaces, and in my experience works very well.


----------



## brav65

wrmiller19 said:


> Many times I have grabbed a couple of pieces of notebook paper when attempting to hold small parts in a vise. It simply adds some grip between two metal surfaces, and in my experience works very well.



Bill just watch out for the white papers as they have clay in them that tends to make them slippery, especially under pressure.  Brown paper bag does not have clay in it and is stickier than the white paper.


----------



## bpratl

brav65 said:


> Bill just watch out for the white papers as they have clay in them that tends to make them slippery, especially under pressure.  Brown paper bag does not have clay in it and is stickier than the white paper.


That's the best explanation on using brown paper, thanks. Bob


----------



## Franko

There are many white papers that are not coated. Uncoated stocks are classified as bonds, offsets, card, newsprint etc.
Coated paper usually has a glossy, smooth or satin sheen. You can recognize coated paper that is printed because the ink is usually shiny because it doesn't absorb into the paper fibers.

Brown paper bags are made of craft paper. There are white bags made of white craft papers. Index card stock, paper from scratch pads, spiral note books and drawing and writing papers are rarely coated. It isn't the clay that makes paper white, it is bleach.


----------



## Big Rack

I thought I was the only guy using a ratchet at work I used a 1/2 ratchet with a 3/4 adapter a lot easier than using that darn chuck handle when cranking the jaws. We had a huge Aloris tool post which we built a girdle around two sides to keep it from slipping this was after management decided we should take a heaver cut to save time, went from a 0.05 depth of cut to .075 and more RPM. Amazingly insert life dropped so much it just wasn't any faster. This was in a supposedly annealed steel casting.


----------



## jbolt

Franko said:


> The jaws on my chuck are pretty tight. Turning them in and out can be a chore.
> I started looking around the shop for something to make a crank handle. I measured the chuck wrench and discovered it is 3/8"



If you chuck is that tight I would take it apart, clean it good, take a finishing stone to any burs or tight spots and reassemble with it well oiled.

Jay


----------



## Franko

Big Rack said:


> I thought I was the only guy using a ratchet at work ...



Big Rack, my old G-4000's 4" chuck was somewhere between 1/4 and 3/8 key size. So, it wasn't an option for it, or for my mini-lathe.



jbolt said:


> If you chuck is that tight I would take it apart, clean it good, take a finishing stone to any burs or tight spots and reassemble with it well oiled.
> Jay



Jay, they aren't so tight that I can't remove and replace them with my fingers. Just a little stiff to freely turn with the t-wrench. I could spin them off with a finger on my G-4000.

Before I start grinding things, I'll give them some time and use to see if they'll loosen up some. I'm not sure tight chuck jaws are a bad thing.


----------



## wm_crash

Well I ended up in this thread trying to find out why my powerfeed wasn't working. I just got the same lathe a couple of days ago, I assume from the same shipment. I am including a photo of my less than glorious installation. It sits a bit higher than I normally see lathes but it seems comfortable enough.





The drip pan did not work for me because the countertop that the lathe sits on is fairly wide. That means the pan perimeter would sit on the countertop and the middle would get pushed in. Not planning to flood coolant, so it's all good.

I need to make some minor electrical adjustments (gfi keeps tripping on anything other than lowest speed and no load) and then I should put it to good use.

cheers,
Cosmin


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## tmarks11

wm_crash said:


> I need to make some minor electrical adjustments (gfi keeps tripping on anything other than lowest speed and no load) and then I should put it to good use.


Most VFD will cause that to happen.  The only real solution is to get rid of the GFCI.

The 1127VF has a DC motor/DC motor controller, but an AC powered DC motor controller in many ways acts like a VFD (it has at least half of the same circuits), so I am not be surprised that it is giving the same false GFCI trips.


----------



## Franko

wm_crash said:


> Well I ended up in this thread trying to find out why my powerfeed wasn't working. I just got the same lathe a couple of days ago, I assume from the same shipment. I am including a photo of my less than glorious installation. It sits a bit higher than I normally see lathes but it seems comfortable enough.
> 
> The drip pan did not work for me because the countertop that the lathe sits on is fairly wide. That means the pan perimeter would sit on the countertop and the middle would get pushed in. Not planning to flood coolant, so it's all good.
> 
> cheers,
> Cosmin



Cosmin, did you figure out how to make the power feed work? You have to pull on the handle before it will move to engage the power feed.  That isn't mentioned in the manual. Sometimes you have to jiggle the gear change knobs to engage the gears so the hex rod and screw turns.

I think your stand is going to be fine. (I like the cribbing) I not sure I understand why the chip pan wouldn't work.
If you can find a restaurant supply, you can get a full sheet baking pan that makes a pretty good drip pan. They are 18" x 28". I gave about $10 for one a Ace Mart Restaurant supply. They are available on Amazon for about $15.


----------



## wm_crash

Powerfeed eventually worked, glad it did. I was already evaluating what it would take to get the lathe off the stand and potentially send it back, and I really hated that scenario.

The chip pan has a margin that sits lower than the middle of the pan. Once you set it on the bench, there is about 5/8" gap between benchtop and bottom of the pan. The weight of the lathe would flex some of that, but I didn't think it would make for a nice flat surface. If it helps visualize, take a framed photo and put it face down on a table. You put something heavy in the middle, it'll crush it.

On an unrelated matter, my lathe came with oil in the gearbox, perhaps a little too much of it. Not sure that's a good thing so I just changed it and only added to halfway of the sight glass.

cheers,
Cosmin


----------



## Franko

wm_crash said:


> The chip pan has a margin that sits lower than the middle of the pan. Once you set it on the bench, there is about 5/8" gap between benchtop and bottom of the pan. ...
> 
> On an unrelated matter, my lathe came with oil in the gearbox, perhaps a little too much of it. Not sure that's a good thing so I just changed it and only added to halfway of the sight glass.
> cheers,
> Cosmin



Ok, I get it. You'd need to put a sheet of 3/4 plywood under the chip pan, which would raise the lathe up even higher.
I recommend the baking pan. If nothing else, it makes cleaning chips much easier. I put one inside my chip pan. It's a lot easier to just pull the pan out and gather up chips than have to scoop them out from under everything.

Once you make some chips, let me know what you think.


----------



## Franko

The thread chasing dial arrived yesterday. It attaches to two little holes on the left side of the saddle that were plugged with set screws. It didn't come with attaching bolts or any instructions what so ever. The bolts were 5mm. I had to purchase 50mm bolts and cut them down to about 45mm. 
Other than having to modify a couple bolts, the installation went easily.

I have absolutely no idea how to operate it. Matt sent me some instructions. 
As near as I can tell, it says to do all imperial threading from zero on the dial.
For metric threads the dial won't work without the other gear it didn't come with.


----------



## Muskt

Franko, here is my recommendation for use of the threading dial.

Remove it from the lathe and carry it to the nearest swamp.  Close your eyes very tightly and turn around about 3 revolutions and with your eyes still closed, throw the dial as far as possible and do not open your eyes for at least 2 minutes, then go home hand have an adult beverage.

Seriously, unless you have lots of extra brain cells to spare, just leave the half nuts engaged and reverse the lathe (after backing out the crossfeed).  That way, whether imperial or metric, you will never go wrong.

Here is a link to a very old book from "The Southbend Lathe Company" on my site.  I am not sure if it is applicable to you machine, but check page 15.

http://www.akpilot.net/How To Cut Threads/How To Cut Threads.pdf

Best to you,
Jerry in Delaware


----------



## John Hasler

That lathe has a 10TPI leadscrew?


----------



## Franko

John, the manual and my ruler says it has an 8 TPI leadscrew.



Muskt said:


> Franko, here is my recommendation for use of the threading dial.
> ...
> Best to you,
> Jerry in Delaware



Jerry, thanks for the book.
I've never used a thread chasing dial. All the threads I've cut have been by reversing out of the cut. I thought maybe I should give using one a shot. But, that little bit of info that Matt sent me is confusing me.  Or, maybe not. I've watched several videos by guys who knew way too much about thread chasing. I was under the impression that different pitch threads had to be started a different marks on the dial depending on the pitch of the lead screw and pitch to be cut. On a certain group of threads, any mark on the dial will work. But, maybe the one number they all have in common is zero.

I have a threading project that I was hoping to use the dial. I'm cutting an external thread to match a part that is already threaded internally. The only way I have to check the thread progress is with the original piece. It is about 8 inches long and I'm going to need to clear the saddle that far back in order to determine when to stop cutting.

In my experience, at the end of the process, it takes several test fits and running the slide that far back with half-nut engaged could be a little overly tedious.

Typical of the rest of the manual, the grammar seems nonsensical and is difficult to interpret.

If I'm translating correctly, I think it says not to engage the half-nut while the lathe is turning. I can only assume from the so-called instructions that I'm supposed to manually rotate the lathe until the chasing dial is on zero, then engage the half-nut. That's not how I've seed it done.


----------



## JimDawson

This assumes that you have an imperial lead screw and are cutting imperial threads, or metric and metric.

Normally if I start on a number, I stick with that number for the rest of the operation.  It does not matter what number you start with for any thread.  There are some TPIs that you could pick up any number during the operation, and some TPIs that would require that you use opposing numbers.   I can't remember the different combinations.  Starting at even/odd or even between numbers makes no difference as long as the rest of the operation is continued with that position.

You may need to adjust the threading dial so the numbers line up correctly with the half-nut engagement point.

I think the manual is a bad translation from the original language.  I have never seen a lathe that it was not acceptable to engage the half-nuts while turning.  If you engage on the numbers, there is no load on anything during the engagement.

If you are cutting metric threads with an imperial lead or vice versa, then you would not want to disengage the half-nuts until the operation is complete.


----------



## ronboult

Hi Franko
Jim above gives good advice. A thread chasing dial is either metric or imperial. A metric dial works with a metric leadscrew to cut metric threads. An imperial dial works with an imperial leadscrew to cut imperial threads. While you can cut metric threads on a imperial lathe (using a 127 tooth gear) you can't use the thread dial easily. There is a way and I will try to dig out the Web address that shows you how. I have it stashed away somewhere. Its quite ingenious and simple when you know how.

Anyway to get you started you can engage the half nuts with the lathe started -no problem. If the thread dial is installed correctly the half nuts will engage cleanly as the thread dial passes zero. You just wait until the thread dial reads zero then engage. When you reach the end of the thread cut disengage the half nuts. You can leave the lathe running. Wind the carriage back to before the start of the thread, put on some extra cut and then engage the half nuts when the thread dial again reads zero. Note the when the half nuts are disengaged the thread dial keeps turning so you can choose when to engage.

Actually you can use any number on the dial to start the thread as long as you use the same number for subsequent cuts.

Depending on the number of divisions on your dial ( and I think the TPI of your leadscrew) you can use other numbers for subsequent cuts. Which number can be used for a particular thread depends on the tpi of the thread you are cutting and the number of divisions on the thread dial. I am sure there are others on this website that can give you the combinations for Odd and Even tpi threads with your leadscrew and thread dial. While my lathe is metric it has a chart on the headstock that tell you what number to use for a particular pitch thread.
I just counted the divisions on your thread dial and I think there are 20. That is a very odd  number, most dials that I have seen have 4, 6, 8  or 12.
In the first instance until you work it out just stick to the same number for each cut and it will work. Being able to start on other numbers for some threads just makes cutting quicker.
Good luck
Ron

Edit
Franko here is the Youtube video by Tom Lipton ( Oxtools) that shows how to use a thread dial to make metric threads on an Imperial leadscrew lathe


----------



## Dale Aune

Franko   G0773 lathe/mill combo looks like the same lathe. Not variable speed though. It looks like a Sieg c10. Maybe the owners manual on Grizzlys site would be of help to you.


----------



## Franko

ronboult said:


> Hi Franko
> ... Anyway to get you started you can engage the half nuts with the lathe started -no problem. If the thread dial is installed correctly the half nuts will engage cleanly as the thread dial passes zero. You just wait until the thread dial reads zero then engage. When you reach the end of the thread cut disengage the half nuts. You can leave the lathe running. Wind the carriage back to before the start of the thread, put on some extra cut and then engage the half nuts when the thread dial again reads zero. Note the when the half nuts are disengaged the thread dial keeps turning so you can choose when to engage.
> 
> Actually you can use any number on the dial to start the thread as long as you use the same number for subsequent cuts.
> 
> Good luck
> Ron
> 
> Edit
> Franko here is the Youtube video by Tom Lipton ( Oxtools) that shows how to use a thread dial to make metric threads on an Imperial leadscrew lathe



Thanks Ron, that's useful information. 
I've attempted engaging the half-nut while it is running, but about half the time there is a little snag and it engages a little off the mark. It won't hit the zero exactly even when it isn't running.



Dale Aune said:


> Franko   G0773 lathe/mill combo looks like the same lathe. Not variable speed though. It looks like a Sieg c10. Maybe the owners manual on Grizzlys site would be of help to you.



Great snooping, Dale. Thanks, that's full of lots of useful information.
All of the Grizzly manuals I've seen seem to be very well made.


----------



## markknx

Franko,
Not sure if someone else pointed this out but before you put the tool holders in the mill to find out if they are hardened try a file test, it won't cost you an end mill. The file will be fine also.
Mark


----------



## ronboult

Franko
A correct size shim between the thread dial and the carriage should cause the half nuts to close directly on one of the lines. Even so if you have the correct thread dial with the correct gear for an 8tpi leadscrew the half nuts should engage at exactly the same point on the dial every time- same distance from zero. If not there is a problem with the dial. Does the dial mount on a pivot so it can easily be disengaged without total removal? If so do you do you have the dial gear snugged up to the lead screw so there is no play? Given that your dial has 20 divisions this seem quite strange for a 8tpi leadscrew.
Hope you sort it out because a correctly functioning thread dial makes threadcutting easy & quick
Ron


----------



## Franko

Ron, I'd have to remove one of the screws to swing the thread chasing dial off the lead screw. I'll experiment with shims.


----------



## Franko

markknx said:


> Franko,
> Not sure if someone else pointed this out but before you put the tool holders in the mill to find out if they are hardened try a file test, it won't cost you an end mill. The file will be fine also.
> Mark



Yup, Mark. I learned to do that after trying to mill those QCTP holders. That was a learning experience I won't forget.

I learn best by screwing up most times.


----------



## JimDawson

Franko said:


> Thanks Ron, that's useful information.
> I've attempted engaging the half-nut while it is running, but about half the time there is a little snag and it engages a little off the mark. It won't hit the zero exactly even when it isn't running.




The gear is not exactly lined up with the dial, on some machines it is possible to adjust that.  Other are just pinned in place.  The only solution in that case is to make a new witness mark where the 0 actually lines up.


----------



## John Hasler

ronboult said:


> Franko
> A correct size shim between the thread dial and the carriage should cause the half nuts to close directly on one of the lines. Even so if you have the correct thread dial with the correct gear for an 8tpi leadscrew the half nuts should engage at exactly the same point on the dial every time- same distance from zero. If not there is a problem with the dial. Does the dial mount on a pivot so it can easily be disengaged without total removal? If so do you do you have the dial gear snugged up to the lead screw so there is no play? Given that your dial has 20 divisions this seem quite strange for a 8tpi leadscrew.
> Ron


More than odd: suspicious.  20 divisions makes no sense for a threading diat for an 8TPI screw.  How many teeth does the gear have and what is its pitch?

There should be a friction clutch so that you can adjust the zero.


----------



## ronboult

Franko
Have you checked to see if the gear on the bottom and the dial on the top are firmly located on the shaft connecting them? Play between the gear &dial may explain the variability you are experiencing.
Do you know what the pin sticking out at position 17 is for? I would take the dial off and have a look to see if the alignment of the gear and dial can be tightened and adjusted for alignment. My metric Sieg SC4  has no threading dial and the one on the metric Sieg Runmaster is quite different so I cant help by comparing yours and mine
Ron


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## John Hasler

I would think that the pin is there so that you can rotate the dial on the friction clutch to align the zero.


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## Franko

John Hasler said:


> I would think that the pin is there so that you can rotate the dial on the friction clutch to align the zero.



I'm guessing that's what it is for, John. I haven't had much time to fool with it as paying work is demanding most of my attention right now.


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## tmarks11

John Hasler said:


> More than odd: suspicious.  20 divisions makes no sense for a threading diat for an 8TPI screw.


But it does make sense if it is a metric threading dial.  The instructions that Franko posted are for a metric thread dial (although I find it difficult to believe that you would thread at 0 for all this threads).

Does the dial actually seem to mesh right with the leadscrew?

Maybe they accidentally installed the metric dial face on the imperial thread dial.  After all, they have been known to "accidentally" install a metric leadscrew on a lathe spec'd to be imperial.


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## Franko

I don't think so, Tim. The threading dial on the Grizzly is identical. The gear meshes fine with the lead screw.
The data sheet Matt sent me says don't use the dial for metric threading.

The zero on the dial is one of the marks that doesn't exactly line up with the half-nut engaged. Some of the other marks like up perfectly. :-\ 

I'm definitely no authority on chasing dials, but I've never seen one with 20 marks.

The dial face doesn't seem to have any clutch or detents. It is held on with a screw and there is a spring under it. It will turn with the handle about a half turn. I was able to line it up on zero that way with the half-nut engaged.

Matt said he isn't happy with the dial and is negotiating with the factory to modify it.


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## DoogieB

As others have stated, the face on your dial is weird for a imperial threads, usually there is only 4 numbers and 4 halfs for a total of 8 marks.

Using a threading dial is actually pretty easy and it's certainly faster than winding the lathe back each time.  Here's a chart from a textbook that explains it pretty clearly.







I'm not sure, but I think this information is generic for any lathe with an imperial lead screw.  I know it works on my SB 10K, whose threading dial looks exactly like the this.

As you can see, it's really easy to remember if you just grab a number each time as you are covered for both odd and even number of threads.


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## John Hasler

Franko said:


> The zero on the dial is one of the marks that doesn't exactly line up with the half-nut engaged. Some of the other marks like up perfectly. :-\


That sounds like exactly what I would expect if you have the correct gear but the wrong dial face.  You could make a correct face for it but IMHO this should be fixed under warranty.


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## tmarks11

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## Franko

I wonder if it would work like a regular thread dial if I made a new dial with 8 divisions?


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## tmarks11

Franko said:


> I wonder if it would work like a regular thread dial if I made a new dial with 8 divisions?



Yes, I bet it would.  But I would try cutting some threads before I spent the time to engrave a new dial.

In the near term, you could take a sharpie marker and highlight 4 divisions on your existing thread dial.  Then try cutting the threads (maybe 13 tpi and 20 tpi) using the typical divisions that Doogie showed in the page he copied above.


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## Franko

This is really discouraging. I've gotten along fine never using one. Now, with a new lathe, I decide I should learn how and the instructions for the one I get are complete gibberish.

I think for it to work with an 8 line dial it needs a 32 tooth gear.


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## ronboult

Franko
My metric Lathe has 28,30,& 32 Tooth gears with a 12 division dial on a 3mm pitch leadscrew. It really seems like you have Chasing dial that is really designed for a metric lathe.







My mind can't quite get round whether a 28 tooth gear can work on a 8tpi LS for Imperial threads- I have enough trouble with metric which are really more simple.

Irrespective I think it will still work if you stick to just one start number say zero. Like tmarks11 says give it a go on a bit of scrap. Try several different pitch threads to convince yourself that it works. Not being able to use the other numbers just makes threading with your dial slower because you constantly have to wait for Zero to come round to start the next cut.

I really think that it is up to Precision Mathews to sort this one out. Goodluck
Ron


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## DoogieB

Did you count the teeth on the gear driving the chasing dial?  If it's 28 teeth it's not going to work correctly if you have a 8 TPI leadscrew.

The teeth on the chasing dial should be a multiple of the leadscrew.  So with an 8 TPI leadscrew, the chasing dial should be 8, 16, 24, 32...  My SB 10K has a 32 tooth chasing dial.  I think Atlas lathes use one with 16 teeth.


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## tmarks11

DoogieB said:


> The teeth on the chasing dial should be a multiple of the leadscrew.  So with an 8 TPI leadscrew, the chasing dial should be 8, 16, 24, 32..


Good point.   For a 28 tooth thread dial to work, that would require a leadscrew pitch of 7 TPI. Otherwise 1 complete rotation of the dial will result in you not being exactly aligned with the thread for the next pass.

All this kind of makes me wonder if this is really a metric thread dial and wonder if the leadscrew is 8 TPI or if it is actually a 3mm pitch leadscrew (8.47 TPI).

The Grizzly manual for this lathe is confusing, as it tells you to install the Z28 gear on the thread dial for imperial, and the Z30 for metric.  But than it says not to use the thread dial for metric and leave the leadscrew engaged for cutting metric threads.  And than it says consult the chart for gears and thread dial positions for metric??!! So if you don't use the thread dial, why the chart for metric?  And if this is for imperial, where is the imperial chart?

Poor Chinese translation of english documents leading them to manufacturer something they don't understand, and than (poorly) translate their faulty chinese translation back to english? Z28 used for some metric threads and Z30 for others seems more likely.

The Sieg C6 lathes have been very popular lathes for a long time (this is the grown-up version, the SC10).  Grizzly sold a lot of copies of their version of the C6 combo machine (G0516).   They didn't have a thread dial, but Little Machine Shop sells one, and from the pictures it looks (SWAG) like it has 8 divisions and a 24 tooth gear on it. The spec for this machine says 8 TPI leadscrew.


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## tomh

Franko
 the instructions should have read=  The imperial lathe will only use the 28T gear. align the dial to read 0 when using the chasing dial.
A lot is lost in translation 
The 28T is the correct gear for cutting imperial threads.  
Use the 0 mark only, and forget the other lines.  As long as the 0 is close to the scale mark you will be fine. 
I tell  folks when learning to thread to focus on the  ( 0 ) or #1 mark and not to use the other numbers or marks, because there is to much going on when threading  that can mess you up as it is .  Maybe  this will help a little.

tomh


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## tmarks11

tomh said:


> Use the 0 mark only, and forget the other lines.  As long as the 0 is close to the scale mark you will be fine.


Which in reality is no different than the way I use my thread dial that has 8 major divisions.  I still generally end up engaging it every single time at the same point, the "1" position just to avoid confusion.  This works for any even or odd threads (but not fractional, but I have never cut any so who cares).


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## Muskt

I still like the swamp idea.

Jerry in Delaware


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## wm_crash

I am curious what kind of runout you guys get on this lathe.

I just indicated the plate and it it slightly over 0.5 thous out of true towards the edge.  The morse taper also has about 0.5 thous runout. After putting the chuck in and a straight rod, I measure 5.5 thous when indicating 2" away from the chuck jaws.

Not exactly sure what to make of these numbers, this is my first serious lathe.

cheers,
Cosmin


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## Franko

I have about .0027 an inch from the chuck jaws.


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## wm_crash

Alright, I went back to cleaning and remounting the chuck. I am getting about 1 thou and inch from the chuck jaws. May have been some dirt caught in between stuff. That is it, I am welding the chuck in place.

cheers,
Cosmin


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## Franko

I don't know that the rod I used is perfect. It was a 1/2" drill rod that came in set.

It has about the same run out I had on my old Grizzly G4000. It never created any problems that was aware of in the parts I made.


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## tmarks11

wm_crash said:


> Alright, I went back to cleaning and remounting the chuck... May have been some dirt caught in between stuff.



Always important to give a good wipe down of all the mating surfaces.  Smashing grit or scarf in between the spindle and the chuck isn't a good thing.

Run-out in a 3 jaw chuck is normal.  The scroll jaws don't always center perfectly.  As long as you don't have to move the part in the chuck while cutting, that run-out doesn't matter. 0.0015" run-out is actually pretty good.

If you have to move the piece, that you have to shift to a 4 jaw (which you can dial down perfectly to 0) or to a 5C collet for cutting the workpiece additional times.

The bigger question is does it cut a taper.  That is something you have to solve, assuming you are turning a long enough part for that to matter.

If you want your three jaw to be better, than the only way around that is to spend $900 and buy a Buck or Bison adjust-tru (set-to) 3 jaw chuck that can be dialed in after the part is chucked up.


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## tomh

If you don't have a ground pin you can snug  up a edge finder in your chuck


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## wm_crash

So today I made the first shavings on the lathe. I like it a lot better than my old Unimat DB.

There are two things I need to figure out. First off, the Shars AXA quickchange uses a different size rod, so I need to figure out what I do about that. Second thing, the compound gets stuck and can not be turned around freely. The problem is that one of the two nuts that are underneath, that you can use to lock the compound at a specific angle, somehow twists itself around in the channel around where the access hole is. Not sure that's something that's often used to change angles, or just the toolpost.

Overall, very nice feel. I ended up making some stainless steel bushings for the wheelbarrow of a guy working on my basement. He deserves better than plastic crap.

cheers,
Cosmin


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## Franko

So far, I've no complaints on the performance of my 1228, Cosmin.

I don't remember what brand AXA QCTP I got, but the bolt was a fit on my lathe. It doesn't screw all the way down to the end of its threads, but that doesn't seem to matter. In fact, I had another one that came with a different brand AXA I had on my old G-4000 that also fit.

I'm not picturing what your issue is with the Compound bolts. If I remember, there are two t-nuts under block that the compound mounts to that you loosen to rotate the compound. There are four bolts that attach the base under the compound that can be loosened so you can slide the compound backward and forward on the cross slide.


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## wm_crash

Still trying to get my terminology right  So it's one of those two t-nuts. There is a hole on the underside of the block to remove/insert the t-nuts. During usage, when you rotate the compound,  once a t-nut ends up in that hole, it doesn't slide back in the t-slot it's supposed to sit in.

cheers,
Cosmin


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## JimDawson

wm_crash said:


> Still trying to get my terminology right  So it's one of those two t-nuts. There is a hole on the underside of the block to remove/insert the t-nuts. During usage, when you rotate the compound,  once a t-nut ends up in that hole, it doesn't slide back in the t-slot it's supposed to sit in.
> 
> cheers,
> Cosmin



Make a little longer t-nut, one that has to be tipped to insert it.  That way it won't turn in the hole and you can tighten it even in the insertion position.  That's what I did with mine when I had the same problem.


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## Franko

Did you remove the base plate to mill off some material so the AXA would work with 1/2" tools? If you took it off to mill it or clean it, it is possible you put it back on front to back. There is a mark on the front to index the protractor on the compound slide.


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## wm_crash

I have the mark in front and lined with 0 degrees. It doesn't bother me for now, but will possibly try JimDawson's idea later on. First thing would be to take care of the qctp. Looks like I will have to make one of those rods that mount to the compound. I don't want to drill and tap the compound to match the Shars qctp rod, I'm afraid I will mess it up. But if I mess up making the rod, I just make another.

The other thing I need to handle is how chips get everywhere.I need to get a couple of thin aluminum plates and cover stuff. I may just be paranoid.

cheers,
Cosmin


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## Franko

Cosmin, have you tried contacting Shars to see if they have a different threaded rod that fits your lathe for your AXA?

I've thought of making a thin aluminum plate to cover the ways left of the cross slide held in place with magnets.

I put a full size baking sheet on my chip pan. It really speeds up cleaning chips and oil drips.


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## wm_crash

Alright, so here are the measurements for the toolpost rod:

lathe stock: 9/16 - 18
shars axa: M14 x 1.5

Within tolerances that these rods are made at, the two threads match quite well for about 3 revolutions, but then stuff binds and goes out of plumb. As a fix, I ordered some 9/16-18 B7 threaded rod and a nut. The nut proved to be the difficult one to find at a reasonable price.

cheers,
Cosmin


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## Franko

Did you loosen the set screw on the back of the tool post?


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## wm_crash

I loosened the set screw that was anchoring the tool post rod to the cross slide. There is no other way to remove that rod, I tried 

cheers,
Cosmin


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## Franko

Yeah, it took me a while to notice it when I was trying to remove mine. When I screwed the new QCTP rod in, I had tightened it back in so as not to lose it.

The bolt on mine is a M14 - 1.5.


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## barnbwt

"Alright, so here are the measurements for the toolpost rod:

lathe stock: 9/16 - 18
shars axa: M14 x 1.5"

I picked up an Aloris AXA post from ENCO, and am now working on a new screw post to attach it since these machines don't use T-nuts.  My measurement of the factory thread into the compound was closer to 14.3mm x 1.4mm/thread.  Since the thread engagement is about an inch, I figured trying to do the 'standard' M14 pitch of 1.5mm would probably bite me, so I _think_ the "B5" gear selection (presently lacking an entry in the table, for some reason) should be double the listed .7mm for the desired 1.4mm, provided proper gear scheme is used.

Which is where I'm confused; is it just me, or does the metric thread chart make no sense?  It's like they meant it to be for four different "G" change gear selections, but there are two "30" and "35" tables, with different ratios despite a gear setup that looks identical according to the diagram.  What am I missing?  I also don't understand why they didn't bother to show all possible ratios; even if they're non-standard, knowing the values is still helpful for cases exactly like this where dummies use proprietary pitches (or in gunsmithing, where you need to match a measurement system like Schritt that no longer exists)

TCB


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## Franko

I can't answer the metric chart question. I think the charts are being addressed, as well as the accompanying instructions. Matt has been very busy so he hasn't had time to deal with it yet.

Did you try to screw in the AXA threaded m14-1.5 post? I had no issue with mine.


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## Dan_Austin

Take this with a grain of salt, as I am a complete neophyte with lathes in general, but I think
I know that the chart is trying to say.  I believe one of the 30/35 tables is used if the final
gear in the change gear chain is the 86 tooth and the other is if the final gear is the 91 (90?) tooth.

I tried cutting a thread with the 86 tooth using a combination that had a listed pitch in
both sets of tables and then measured to see which I got.  I then swapped the final gears
and repeated the process, and the results seemed to confirm what I was thinking.  I say
seemed as my reference is a cheapie pitch gauge.


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## Franko

You could have something, Dan. But, I think there is a mistake on the thread chart on the second group of metric thread settings. Instead of both of them having 30 and 35, my guess is the second group should be maybe 50 and 60. 

That's what the thread chart for the Grizzly G0773 indicates, as well as the chart for the Seig SC10. Although, Matt made some gear changes on his 1228. The PM1228 is built on the same framework as the Seig SC10, which is also the base for the G0773.


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## barnbwt

"That's what the thread chart for the Grizzly G0773 indicates, as well as the chart for the Seig SC10"
I think that's the answer, then.  I really should just print their manual out, since this is about the third time I've run into issues with this one that were corrected on theirs (must be a revision difference).  I'd love to see a list of what all is different on these machines from the SC10, because apart from the absence of an oil ball-port over the power-feed mechanism (mine just has a set screw staked in the hole) I haven't found one, yet.  Mostly, our machines are simply missing useless add-ons like chuck guards and leadscrew covers (I think the tailstock might be slightly nicer, or at least a newer & larger model with the MT3 taper rather than the MT2 that had been shipping with the SIEGs)

One thing is for sure, though; my machine _really_ doesn't like running with the 30 tooth change gear in play.  I've decided there is a bad concentricity issue somewhere at the final drive gear which was causing my cutting issues ('waves' in the cut paths) and with the different gear in position, man does that gearbox howl every time it comes around the tight spot.  Regardless what the thread chart says, I'll be doing something else to get this part to work (already did; I simply turned the thread grooves in the Aloris post like .001" wider at the same English pitch, and it now gets deep enough before binding for proper seating; it was like two threads away from the needed engagement, before.  Apparently M14 is a place where metric/standard tolerances overlap)

Be advised, I've heard from two people now that the gears in these lathes (SIEG/etc.) have been known to have concentricity issues.  Might be worth spinning the gear through its whole travel by hand to check for binding before you damage something.  I know for sure my change gears are much, much tighter at the shaft-key slot, which causes them to sit slightly higher at that side of the shaft by the thou or so clearance of the bore.

FWIW, I read the chart as saying "G-Z91-Z90" vs. "G-Z91/Z86-Z90."  This still doesn't make sense as there is no way to get the Z90 gear to mesh with the Z86 --the latter precesses around the former on the banjo without getting any closer.  Closest you could get is "G-Z86/Z91-Z90" which is what I did to get the desired 1.4mm pitch (which I then found I can't use for worry of breaking the machine).  Considering how the "Z91" depiction isn't even close to the same size in the two charts...I think there's a typo somewhere in there.  I'm also not sure if it should be considered 'just a typo' for something so basic and crucial as the threading chart to be incorrect --that's simply low-rent crap, right there.

TCB


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## Franko

The manual that comes with the pm1228 is the same manual supplied by Sieg for their lathes. It even calls the lathe a SC10 in a couple places.

Matt said he made some gear changes for his  pm1228, so info in the Grizzly G0773 manual may have some misinformation regarding the pm1228. Otherwise, it is worth the effort to download the Grizzly manual. It has lots of good info.


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## koba49

I just ordered a PM 1228VF-Lb yesterday, I would like to first thank Franko the photos and information in this thread have helped me a lot, I also ordered the stand for this lathe, and my question is has anyone mounted leveling legs to the stand to level the machine. When I talked to matt about it he said people were drilling and taping holes in the base of the stand and mounting legs to do this. I found some adjustable metal feet   on a 1/2-13 stud and was thinking that would work. I was just wondering if anyone has done this.


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## sierrasmith71

Just received my PM 1228VF-LB this week and am in the process of cleaning it and setting every thing up.  

After an initial cleaning I plugged it in to my garage's GFCI outlet and after I turned it on  it ran only for a few seconds and then the GFCI tripped..arrgh ..off to the web.. I found other folks have reported this and suggested changing out the GFCI outlet for a new up to date one. (my is 20 years old)   I did that today and that fixed the problem. I did how ever discover, to my dismay that I have only a 15 amp breaker feeding the garage and not 20 amps that I have always believed. I guess a visit from an electrician is in order to see how much it will cost to run a new 20 amp or perhaps a two phase 40 amp 220v line to my detached garage... It is always something. I have been running machines in the garage with no problem for 17 years now (only one at a time) but nothing   that pulls as much as this lathe ( a new line would also allow me to get some badly needed heat!  I do have small 1500 watt heater that I use in the winter time and must shut it off when O use my machines..... 

I have a few questions I hope you folks can answer:

Does one need to remove the cross slide  assembly to clean the shipping gunk off? I notice that there is some black gunk in the oil  that comes out between the 45 degree guides. Is that left over from the lapping they did, and should it be removed and cleaned?

Also the oil port near the cross slide wheel oozes black gung(oil) when the cross slide is fully pulled  toward the operator..   

The cross slide hand wheel has a tight spot in it that makes it awkward to turn smoothly.. are there any  adjustments?
The carriage hand wheel gets very hard to turn when the carriage approaches the head stock...any ides?

One last question: does one need to clean the drive gears where the drive belt and pulleys are located. They are covered with what looks like grease , but it could be shipping gunk?

David G.

Gaithersburg, MD


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## wm_crash

I have a dedicated 20 amp GFCI that was getting tripped by the machine. After making sure the machine does not have a short, I replaced the CFGI with a regular box. Everyone is happy now.

I also have black gunky oil coming out of some of the ports. I will at some point take the entire saddle/carriage/cross-slide/etc. apart and clean really well.

My cross slide does not have a tight spot, it turns smoothly. If I were you, I would open it and make sure you don't have something funny going on with the screw mechanism rather than the wheel itself.

One issue I have is that the dial attached to my cross slide is very tight. When I try to set it to 0 (or whatever else, but usually 0), I end up inadvertently changing the position too. It hasn't bothered me too much but I guess I could pop it off and give it a skim cut.

My carriage gets tight as it approaches the tailstock, maybe just the last 5" of possible travel. It hasn't bothered me, but I think someone got too happy with the bondo during manufacturing. The carriage actually rubs against the body of the lathe, just below the rack that the carriage pinion engages. Maybe you have the same issue but in a different position.

cheers,
Cosmin


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## Franko

Update as of today. The final part arrived today. It took a while, but I got it.
It's the revised thread chasing dial.
A few weeks ago, the 0.1" cross-slide/compound and tail stock upgrade arrived. I installed them without much angst. Straight forward enough for even me.

I don't have any further plans for upgrades or additions. I might get around to making a spider for it. I originallly thought I would want to put a DRO on it, but I don't think it would be that useful for the projects I tackle. The clutter doesn't seem worth the benefit. I've got some dial indicators if I need to be that precise.


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