# PM’s new MagXact MX-200L DRO?



## Jake P (Jul 2, 2021)

Has anyone been able to check out this new item yet, first hand?  Wondering what the reviews might be.


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## Aukai (Jul 2, 2021)

It was not a choice/available when I got my lathe recently.


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## rwm (Jul 2, 2021)

Links for reference


			https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/magxact-mx-200-2-axis-lathe-lcd-dro-8x40-inch-scales/
		




			https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/magxact-magnetic-2-axis-lathe-dro-8x40/
		

R


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## FOMOGO (Jul 2, 2021)

Seems a bit pricey. Mike


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## mksj (Jul 2, 2021)

Looks like it is a new version of the Elctronica EL700, they now called the EL750 and comes with magnetic scales. I have the EL700 on my mill and it works very well, the display is bright and crisp. Lots of different functions. Only down side is it uses a touch screen, so not so good when using it with oily fingers and can also become damaged from swarf since it is plastic. I used a tablet screen protector, cut it to fit and have it on top of the display screen. I highly recommended added a screen protector.

Price wise it is actually reasonable for a graphic display with magnetic scales, the mill version with 4 scales was almost twice the price. The magnetic scales and display are high quality units. Just a reminder that on the lathe you want to specify the cross slide scale as 1 micron otherwise you can get greater measurement errors when in diameter mode.









						DRO EL750 | Precision Measurements Tools - EMS
					

EMS design DRO EL750 preferred for precision measurements. EL750 on shop floor makes any machining operation fast and cost effective. Find product specification.




					www.electronicaems.com
				




EL750 and EL700


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## Jake P (Jul 2, 2021)

Thanks for the input Mark!

You had mentioned to me in an email a while back to take a look at the Easson DRO.  As much as I liked the Easson DRO, I was having a hard time with the overseas issue involved with them.  What I mean is that every time I wanted to ask a question regarding my needs with the 1340GT it was a matter of a day at least in correspondence due to them being on the other side of the pond.  In addition to that, as I recall, they offer a three year warranty vs. the five year offered by PM.  At that time I decided that between having to deal with an overseas vendor and the warranty difference I decided to just stay with my order with PM for the MagXact.

Now they have added this model and it seems to be the best option for getting an LCD type screen (which I think you are right will be easier on the eyes) and having stateside support and a longer warranty.

The price is very comparable when considering shipping, as this will ship with my lathe.

As to the screen protector.  If I understand your post correctly you covered only the screen and not the entire face of the unit?


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## mksj (Jul 2, 2021)

Agree with you going with the newer EL750 model, price wise it is close to the EL400 and I think it would be a much nicer DRO to use. I find the graphical displays to be way easier to see and you can also adjust the colors. The protection overlay is over the whole face of the plastic display screen, you can see the corner edges in the picture below. I went with a non-reflective protective screen which gives it a matte overall view, the screen protectors are for use with touch screens. You need the plastic type which can be cut as opposed to the glass type, it also can be removed/replaced easily. 

The screen protector brand I used was Celicious  https://www.ebay.com/itm/32390272148


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## Jake P (Jul 3, 2021)

I just looked into the Easson warranty again because I was wondering if my comment above regarding a 3 year warranty was correct.  I think they only offer a 1 year. 

I was looking at the Easson DRO through a UK distributor and their site says 1 year if I'm reading it correctly.

And DRO Pros (at least for magnetic scales, not sure about displays) is only offering 1 year on Easson as well.

The used mill I just acquired has a Newall DRO with Microsyn scales.  I had a broken scale due to user error on the Y axis when I bought it.  The seller told me he suspected it was broken, and we split the cost for the replacement.

And just yesterday I had a malfunction in the X axis scale that made my heart skip a beat because I thought I had just ruined the scale.  Long story short, when I talked with the tech rep at Newall he informed me the problem was a manufacturing defect and that the scale was under a lifetime warranty.  That's just awesome!  The new scale (a 20" read) is $437.00 plus tax and shipping had it not been under warranty.


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## Christianstark (Jul 8, 2021)

Hey Mark,

So you think the 750 is worth the $100 upgrade for each machine? I have the 400's on order for my machines at PM, and am considering calling them to tweak my order..


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## mksj (Jul 8, 2021)

Yes. I have heard of a few people mention that the EL400 and similar displays are hard to read if sunlight is shining on the screen, and the switches are not sealed.  Other DRO's have sealed membrane switches and some come with a protective cover.  When you get into the graphical displays they are much easier to read and you also have soft menu keys with different options and sub menus. In particular on the mill, I find it very helpful for different drilling patterns like bolt circles. You also have things like feed rates that are shown in the upper right corner of the screen. Since I have a 4 axis, I sum the Z and U, so mine currently shows 3 axis. 

Just be aware that they are touch displays, so they can be a bit finicky with greasy or wet fingers. Definitely recommend putting on a touch screen protector to prevent any damage to the screen.


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## Christianstark (Jul 8, 2021)

Just got off the phone with PM. So they are a $200 difference each, total of $400 for me. Would you still think it worth it for a newly learning hobbiest?



mksj said:


> Yes. I have heard of a few people mention that the EL400 and similar displays are hard to read if sunlight is shining on the screen, and the switches are not sealed.  Other DRO's have sealed membrane switches and some come with a protective cover.  When you get into the graphical displays they are much easier to read and you also have soft menu keys with different options and sub menus. In particular on the mill, I find it very helpful for different drilling patterns like bolt circles. You also have things like feed rates that are shown in the upper right corner of the screen. Since I have a 4 axis, I sum the Z and U, so mine currently shows 3 axis.
> 
> Just be aware that they are touch displays, so they can be a bit finicky with greasy or wet fingers. Definitely recommend putting on a touch screen protector to prevent any damage to the screen.


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## Jake P (Jul 8, 2021)

Christianstark said:


> Just got off the phone with PM. So they are a $200 difference each, total of $400 for me. Would you still think it worth it for a newly learning hobbiest?


That's one of those questions that ultimately only you can answer of course, but to me the answer would be yes.  I've upgraded mine for my 1340 order and if I didn't have a Newall on the used mill I recently acquired I would get the same for the mill.  

This is a large outlay of money (for me at least) and not getting a better component that is so integral to the daily operation of the machine when the upgrade is roughly a 2% price increase for the lathe, just doesn't make sense for me.  Of course you are buying two machines at once, but I think the principal still applies.

I would save money elsewhere is what I'm saying, but that's just me.


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## Christianstark (Jul 8, 2021)

Jake P said:


> That's one of those questions that ultimately only you can answer of course, but to me the answer would be yes.  I've upgraded mine for my 1340 order and if I didn't have a Newall on the used mill I recently acquired I would get the same for the mill.
> 
> This is a large outlay of money (for me at least) and not getting a better component that is so integral to the daily operation of the machine when the upgrade is roughly a 2% price increase for the lathe, just doesn't make sense for me.  Of course you are buying two machines at once, but I think the principal still applies.
> 
> I would save money elsewhere is what I'm saying, but that's just me.


Yeah...Instead of waiting for advice, I called John and asked him to send me a sales order.


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## mksj (Jul 8, 2021)

Per what Jake mentioned. If it were my machines I would not go with the older style numeric displays, things like feed rate and so forth I use all the time and also I find them much easier to read. You can also look at it as the EL-750 through QMT is $100 less than the EL400 sold at DROPros. It is not an inexpensive hobby, but I look at small price difference amortized over many years to be worth spending a little more if it is in your budget. The installs are fairly straight forward and a bit easier with the magnetic scales. 

This is so much easier to read, and I do not get flickering digits or 5 decimal places.


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## Aukai (Jul 8, 2021)

Get them pre installed as well, while installation is not hard it is time consuming to get right. Others feel that they would rather do it themselves just so that they know it was done better than a 9-5er install though.


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## Christianstark (Jul 8, 2021)

Aukai said:


> Get them pre installed as well, while installation is not hard it is time consuming to get right. Others feel that they would rather do it themselves just so that they know it was done better than a 9-5er install though.


I'm one of those, but not just because I think I can do a better job, but I find that kind of work enjoyable.


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## Jake P (Jul 27, 2021)

For those that were following this thread and those who might later read about my Newall warranty situation, here’s an update as of this morning.

The faulty scale that Newall requested be shipped to them prior to replacement arrived at their facility on 7/7.  After a few days of back and forth emails I was told that my replacement scale would ship on or before 7/26.  Not sure why it takes that long to send out a replacement part, but so it is.  

After hearing nothing on 7/26 I sent an email again asking what was up.  This morning I get a response that says basically “not sure what the issue is, but I’ll check into it later this week”.  

Later this week?  How about now I’m thinking.  It’s a bit frustrating to have no idea what the issue is and then be told that perhaps by the end of the week it will be “looked into”.

Oh well.  I’m basically the beggar that can’t be choosy, so onward I wait.


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## Christianstark (Jul 27, 2021)

Jake P said:


> For those that were following this thread and those who might later read about my Newall warranty situation, here’s an update as of this morning.
> 
> The faulty scale that Newall requested be shipped to them prior to replacement arrived at their facility on 7/7.  After a few days of back and forth emails I was told that my replacement scale would ship on or before 7/26.  Not sure why it takes that long to send out a replacement part, but so it is.
> 
> ...


Aren't the Newall kits supposed to be at the higher end for the hobby market, and suited for commercial use as well? I would think their warranty response would be better.


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## Jake P (Jul 27, 2021)

Christianstark said:


> Aren't the Newall kits supposed to be at the higher end for the hobby market, and suited for commercial use as well? I would think their warranty response would be better.


I had hoped that it would not have been drawn out this long!  

And yes, what about a commercial shop that needs the part for production?  I would think that there are far more commercial applications of this product line than hobby users.


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## Jake P (Aug 5, 2021)

Just to update the Newall warranty situation, I received the replacement scale today.


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## Bryan40g (Jan 8, 2022)

mksj said:


> Looks like it is a new version of the Elctronica EL700, they now called the EL750 and comes with magnetic scales. I have the EL700 on my mill and it works very well, the display is bright and crisp. Lots of different functions. Only down side is it uses a touch screen, so not so good when using it with oily fingers and can also become damaged from swarf since it is plastic. I used a tablet screen protector, cut it to fit and have it on top of the display screen. I highly recommended added a screen protector.
> 
> Price wise it is actually reasonable for a graphic display with magnetic scales, the mill version with 4 scales was almost twice the price. The magnetic scales and display are high quality units. Just a reminder that on the lathe you want to specify the cross slide scale as 1 micron otherwise you can get greater measurement errors when in diameter mode.
> 
> ...


Do you by chance remember what size or kind of screen protector you bought for this? I just purchased the MX-200L and am now worried about touching the screen with oily fingers. About how big is the touch screen portion and did the screen protector cause any issues making selections? Tried your link but it no longer works. But stick with plastic? Gotcha.


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## mksj (Jan 8, 2022)

Any plastic touch screen protector will work, you just need to trim it with some scissors to size. I have been using the  Celicious Matte Anti-Glare Screen Protector (touch) on on my EL700 (same as the MX200), they work well. I prefer the Matte anti-glare version so it is less likely to get reflections from lights or sunshine.








						Celicious Matte Anti-Glare Screen Protector Dell Alienware 15 r2 Touch 2pack NEW 5055824250013 | eBay
					

Condition is New.



					www.ebay.com


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## Bryan40g (Jan 8, 2022)

mksj said:


> Any plastic touch screen protector will work, you just need to trim it with some scissors to size. I have been using the  Celicious Matte Anti-Glare Screen Protector (touch) on on my EL700 (same as the MX200), they work well. I prefer the Matte anti-glare version so it is less likely to get reflections from lights or sunshine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Got it. Thanks dude.


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## B2 (Jan 8, 2022)

Two cents worth....

I have the PM Magnetic equivalent to the EL400.  It seems to work well and I have no problem seeing the display.  I actually prefer mechanical buttons to the capacitance style keys.  Over the years, I have have had lots of problems with the capacitance keys and their cable interconnects, especially as they age.   It came with a plastic cover, but I pitched it as it was torn and stiff.  You can see the DRO at the top of the first photo I posted at


B2 said:


> VFD conversion using solid state electronic components.


It is a high resolution image so just expand it and you will have a clear picture of the DRO display.

The numbers are in green and so are quite visible, but I don't have sun light at this location.  I purchased it installed on my PM1440GT and at the time PM had not figured out what to call these magnetic scales yet.  I may have purchased the first one that they sold!  Hence, you will not see the MagXact label on mine.  I think they call it the 100L now.   I am not for sure where the name comes from.  

Dave


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## Just for fun (Jan 8, 2022)

Dave, That is the exact unit I have on order.  Well, actually I have two of them on order, a 2 axis for the lathe and a 3 axis for the mill.


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## mksj (Jan 9, 2022)

For many people, a DRO is a luxury and not a necessity, but when it comes to a mill there are a lot more features in the MX-200 DRO's in multiple menus, soft keys and graphical representations of arrays, bolt circles, and if desired touch probe that for the cost difference between the MX-100 and 200 there is a big difference in features. Simple things like feed IPM simultaneous as well as a 0 indicator, I use quite a few of the DRO features.

As far as the capacitive touch screen, I prefer sealed membrane switches as far as tactile feedback, but it is more reliable than mechanical switches. I have heard other's complain about the switches on the EL400 (MX100).  With a screen protector on my El700, the capcitive touch on mine seems to be less finicky as to finger placement. On a mill DRO, if you spending that much I would recommend a graphical display otherwise if just for numbers save some pocket change and maybe get something less expensive. Lathe, you are just reading numbers, but I still prefer the less expensive ES-12B over the MX-100L. Whatever floats your boat.


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## FOMOGO (Jan 9, 2022)

How long until we can just tell it what to do? Alexa advance 2.061 in X. Mike


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## Lucas E (Feb 3, 2022)

mksj said:


> For many people, a DRO is a luxury and not a necessity, but when it comes to a mill there are a lot more features in the MX-200 DRO's in multiple menus, soft keys and graphical representations of arrays, bolt circles, and if desired touch probe that for the cost difference between the MX-100 and 200 there is a big difference in features. Simple things like feed IPM simultaneous as well as a 0 indicator, I use quite a few of the DRO features.
> 
> As far as the capacitive touch screen, I prefer sealed membrane switches as far as tactile feedback, but it is more reliable than mechanical switches. I have heard other's complain about the switches on the EL400 (MX100).  With a screen protector on my El700, the capcitive touch on mine seems to be less finicky as to finger placement. On a mill DRO, if you spending that much I would recommend a graphical display otherwise if just for numbers save some pocket change and maybe get something less expensive. Lathe, you are just reading numbers, but I still prefer the less expensive ES-12B over the MX-100L. Whatever floats your boat.


Does your MX200 have inches per minute read out? I emailed PM asking if it did as I wanted to upgrade to get that feature and Matt replied that they did not come with it.


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## Bryan40g (Feb 3, 2022)

It’s the same dro as the el750 dro pros sales. According to electronica who manufactures the display it shows that it displays feed rate. Haven’t used mine yet as I don’t yet have it installed.


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## Christianstark (Feb 3, 2022)

Lucas E said:


> Does your MX200 have inches per minute read out? I emailed PM asking if it did as I wanted to upgrade to get that feature and Matt replied that they did not come with it.


I can confirm that it DOES display feed rate in upper right corner.


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## Lucas E (Feb 3, 2022)

Christianstark said:


> I can confirm that it DOES display feed rate in upper right corner.


Well that's frustrating. I had heard they did, but wanted to confirm from Precision Matthews as that's what I was planning on ordering. When they said it didn't I didn't see any reason to spend the extra for the MX200 so I ordered an MX100 for my lathe.


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## Christianstark (Feb 3, 2022)

Lucas E said:


> Well that's frustrating. I had heard they did, but wanted to confirm from Precision Matthews as that's what I was planning on ordering. When they said it didn't I didn't see any reason to spend the extra for the MX200 so I ordered an MX100 for my lathe.


Call them back. PM me your phone number and I would be happy to send a video


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## Christianstark (Feb 3, 2022)

From their website.


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## Lucas E (Feb 3, 2022)

Christianstark said:


> From their website.
> View attachment 394907


Does it read out in inches/min or mm/min? Or is it switchable between the two?


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## Christianstark (Feb 3, 2022)

Lucas E said:


> Does it read out in inches/min or mm/min? Or is it switchable between the two?


It looks like It does both inches and meters? The number goes down when I change from inches to mm.

I tested the feed at 20 for 1 minute and the table moved 6.5 inches roughly, so it appears it is calculating SFM on a 1 inch cutter.

When I change to mm setting the feed value changes to about 8 so it SEEMS like it is basing SFM on a 1 cm cutter.

I know it does change based on in/mm toggle, I am just unsure on exacts.

Caviat, I know once RPM is added to what I just said above, it is like I don't even know what I am talking about, so I THINK some more math needs to be incorporated into determining feed rate, I am a new hobby machinist so I am still learning here. Logic would tell me that that number would be based on 60 RPMs?


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## Christianstark (Feb 3, 2022)

Here is a more in depth manual for what I think is the OEM DRO, Electronica 750.



			https://www.dropros.com/documents/EL750%20Manual.pdf


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## Lucas E (Feb 3, 2022)

Christianstark said:


> It looks like It does both inches and meters? The number goes down when I change from inches to mm.
> 
> I tested the feed at 20 for 1 minute and the table moved 6.5 inches roughly, so it appears it is calculating SFM on a 1 inch cutter.
> 
> ...


Does the feed rate change when changing RPM of the spindle, but keeping the axis feed constant? Is it calculating some sort of chip load?

That is weird that it goes from 6.5 to 8 when changing from inches to mm. That doesn't seem to be a direct conversion from inches to mm or cm.


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## Christianstark (Feb 3, 2022)

the table feeds about 6.5" linear when the SFM is listed as 20 in the inch setting. A 1" cutter times Pi times 6.5" is roughly 20.

when I change to metric, the SFM drops to about 8, If I am right, the SFM is now being tallied up based on a 1 CM cutter. 20 divided by 2.54 is about 8.

Everything above is based on 60 RPM

Edit - The feed rate DOES NOT change based on RPM. The 2 are not linked. That is why math needs to be performed to determine actual SFM based on RPM's and size of cutter. I have not done any deep diving into setting tool diameters, and presetting RPM values into the DRO based on saved tools, but I imagine that quick math would need to be performed for each operation.

IOW - If using a 2.5" cutter, at 600 RPM, IF the DRO was displaying 20 IPM you would need to multiply like this

20 x 2.5 (for the cutter) x 10 (for 10 x 60 RPM) for an actual SFM of 500,

Like I said, I am new to this but the numbers I think are generated by only the 2 values the DRO could possibly know, table travel and a standardized sized cutter, and then bases that on 60RPMs to make the math easier for us.


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## Lucas E (Feb 3, 2022)

Christianstark said:


> the table feeds about 6.5" linear when the SFM is listed as 20 in the inch setting. A 1" cutter times Pi times 6.5" is roughly 20.
> 
> when I change to metric, the SFM drops to about 8, If I am right, the SFM is now being tallied up based on a 1 CM cutter. 20 divided by 2.54 is about 8.
> 
> ...


I don't think the cutter size should have anything to do with it. If it's reading out at 20 inches per minute, and then switches to about 8cm/min when you switch to metric that seems to me working correctly. The bigger issue is why is it reading 20 inches per minute when the table is really moving at Roughly 6.5 ipm? I wonder if there's a setting that needs to be changed to get it to read correctly.

Or if it just doesn't work very good which is why drop pros and precision Matthews don't discuss it much in the manual.

FYI I think DRO pros and precision Matthews are both just resellers of electronica DROs. I suspect PM just chose a model with all soft touch buttons where the manufacturer makes stand alone buttons for the number keypad on the DRO pros version.


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## Christianstark (Feb 3, 2022)

Lucas E said:


> I don't think the cutter size should have anything to do with it. If it's reading out at 20 inches per minute, and then switches to about 8mm/min when you switch to metric that seems to me working correctly. The bigger issue is why is it reading 20 inches per minute when the table is really moving at Roughly 6.5 ipm. I wonder if there's a setting that needs to be changed to get it to read correctly.


Feed rates are absolutely related to cutter size. Feed rate is not table movement but is cutter movement through material.


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## Lucas E (Feb 3, 2022)

This was a duplicate post


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## Lucas E (Feb 3, 2022)

Christianstark said:


> Feed rates are absolutely related to cutter size. Feed rate is not table movement but is cutter movement through material.


I don't understand how that could be. A 1/2" end mill and a 1" end mill can both travel though material at 20 ipm. If you have a 1" end mill and are only using half of it to cut a 1/2 step into a block the feed rate isn't suddenly changed.

Unless the feed rate display is actually calculating something different than what I consider feed rate, which is just the table speed.

Edit: I think I understand now. It probably is reading cutter feed rate as opposed to table feed rate. That may be why PM said it doesn't read out feed rates when I asked. Does the DRO allow you to store tool diameters that adjusts the cutter feed rate based on their diameters?


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## Christianstark (Feb 3, 2022)

I am probably doing a horrible job at describing this (again I am a total noob) but the way I understand feed rate, is the speed at which the cutting edge moves through material in Surface Feet per Minute. I do hope someone chimes in on this and clarifies one way or another.


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## mksj (Feb 3, 2022)

No, it is just table movement/time, not a SFM calculation. You can set it to read a specific axis. I have an EL700, the feed rate is quite helpful.


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## Christianstark (Feb 3, 2022)

mksj said:


> No, it is just table movement/time, not a SFM calculation. You can set it to read a specific axis. I have an EL700, the feed rate is quite helpful.


Why does my table only move 6.5" in a minute when it reads 20 when unit of measure is inches, and at the same power feed setting changes to 8 when I change unit of measure to mm?


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## mksj (Feb 3, 2022)

Don't know, I do not have that issue. Have you checked the resolution settings of the scale and that the display is reading the correct distance?


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## Christianstark (Feb 3, 2022)

I will do so, but either way if it is only measuring table distance over time, the number when switched to mm should go up...unless it is measuring mm/sec.


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## Christianstark (Feb 3, 2022)

Here's a very inaccurate representation of my DRO readings. The axis was zeroed on the 0 of the ruler, and then the table was moved.


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## Christianstark (Feb 3, 2022)

Lucas E said:


> Edit: I think I understand now. It probably is reading cutter feed rate as opposed to table feed rate. That may be why PM said it doesn't read out feed rates when I asked. Does the DRO allow you to store tool diameters that adjusts the cutter feed rate based on their diameters?


I am not sure Lucas. I'm a total noob, and from what Mark is saying it should only be displaying table movement. What is weird is:

In inch settings, it is displaying a rate that is spot on with what I would see as SF/m with a 1 " cutter at 60 RPM's, making it VERY easy to dial in a speed and feed based on any imperial sized cutter I could choose with some simple math.

In mm settings, it is displaying a rate that is spot on with what I would see as SF/m with a 10mm cutter spinning at 60 RPM's, making it VERY easy to dial in a speed and feed based on any metric sized cutter I could choose with some simple math.

Not sure if it is blind luck here, but that is what I am seeing on my DX-200.

Edit - I really don't think I am thinking about this correctly...but I am at a loss as to why my DRO is showing 20 and the table is only moving 6.5".


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## mksj (Feb 3, 2022)

I checked mine, at 10 IPM it travels 10" in 1 minute, and 254 mm. The display for feed rate in metric shows ~4.2 mm/sec.  254/60 = 4.23.

Corrected to IPM. Always seem to have issues with my computer changing things, or maybe it is just my old brain playing tricks on me.


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## Christianstark (Feb 3, 2022)

mksj said:


> I checked mine, at 10 IPS it travels 10" in 1 minute, and 254 mm. The display for feed rate in metric shows ~4.2 mm/sec.  254/60 = 4.23.


Interesting. No idea why mine shows 20 and moves 6.5"

I am guessing you meant 10 IPM and not 10 IPS?


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## Lucas E (Feb 3, 2022)

mksj said:


> I checked mine, at 10 IPM it travels 10" in 1 minute, and 254 mm. The display for feed rate in metric shows ~4.2 mm/sec.  254/60 = 4.23.
> 
> Corrected to IPM. Always seem to have issues with my computer changing things, or maybe it is just my old brain playing tricks on me.


I guess mm/sec makes more sense so it isn't some crazy large number. I don't usually work in metric so I'm not familiar with those feeds and speeds. Also seems like christians numbers match pretty well 20 ipm =~8.5 mm/sec.


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## Christianstark (Feb 3, 2022)

Lucas E said:


> I guess mm/sec makes more sense so it isn't some crazy large number. I don't usually work in metric so I'm not familiar with those feeds and speeds. Also seems like christians numbers match pretty well 20 ipm =~8.5 mm/sec.


Unfortunately the table only moves 6.5" in a minute...Crazy. Here is a video I uploaded showing 10.0 feed rate I just took and uploaded to YT. Table moves 3.3ish inches...


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## Lucas E (Feb 3, 2022)

Christianstark said:


> Unfortunately the table only moves 6.5" in a minute...Crazy. Here is a video I uploaded showing 10.0 feed rate I just took and uploaded to YT. Table moves 3.3ish inches...


So the scale on the table says 6.5" after a minute? And the DRO days 3.3 inches? And the feed rate says 10 inches a minute?


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## Christianstark (Feb 3, 2022)

Lucas E said:


> So the scale on the table says 6.5" after a minute? And the DRO days 3.3 inches? And the feed rate says 10 inches a minute?


No. For this video I lowered my feed rate from 20 (moved 6.5") to 10 so I could apples to apples what Mark posted.

At 10 the table moved 3.25 ish inches. At 10 Marks moved 10" We have a 3x disparity.


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## Christianstark (Feb 4, 2022)

I have submitted a call to PM, and they are in talks with the factory on the behavior. My table is moving precisely 1/3 the distance that the feed rate is indicating it should. The MEASUREMENTS are accurate. The feed rate calculation is off.

All of the garbage I posted above was me conflating spindle speed with feed rate...please forgive the noob...At this point I am thinking there is something up with the config that tells the DRO how to factor feed rate based on simple encoder step counting, or how it totals this on the fly.

Mark, Thanks much for running the test on your EL-700. Made me lose the red herring mentality and re-assess the problem I am having.


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## mksj (Feb 4, 2022)

You might check that the DRO is configured in the mill setting, almost sounds like if a factor of 3 might be pi/circumference or some other calculation. You also can do a factory reset on the DRO, and then set it to mill and check the scale resolutions. You might also check the Y axis, the feed by default is whatever axis is moving.


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## Christianstark (Feb 4, 2022)

mksj said:


> You might check that the DRO is configured in the mill setting, almost sounds like if a factor of 3 might be pi/circumference or some other calculation. You also can do a factory reset on the DRO, and then set it to mill and check the scale resolutions. You might also check the Y axis, the feed by default is whatever axis is moving.


It is set in Mill config. All axis are reading the same.


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## metalmaster (Feb 25, 2022)

20 inches per minute should be 20 inches per minute, cutter diameter and rpm only come into play when setting feed per tooth


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## Lucas E (Mar 11, 2022)

Christianstark said:


> I have submitted a call to PM, and they are in talks with the factory on the behavior. My table is moving precisely 1/3 the distance that the feed rate is indicating it should. The MEASUREMENTS are accurate. The feed rate calculation is off.
> 
> All of the garbage I posted above was me conflating spindle speed with feed rate...please forgive the noob...At this point I am thinking there is something up with the config that tells the DRO how to factor feed rate based on simple encoder step counting, or how it totals this on the fly.
> 
> Mark, Thanks much for running the test on your EL-700. Made me lose the red herring mentality and re-assess the problem I am having.


Have you heard anything from PM? I just got MX200 DRO's installed on my mill and lathe. And they both have the feed rate displaying 3X the actual value. So I don't think yours is an isolated experience.


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## Christianstark (Mar 11, 2022)

Lucas E said:


> Have you heard anything from PM? I just got MX200 DRO's installed on my mill and lathe. And they both have the feed rate displaying 3X the actual value. So I don't think yours is an isolated experience.


Heard back yesterday, and they said they will be trying a software or firmware update sent by the factory. Stay tuned. I’m hoping to hear something in the next week.


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## Gingersnaps (Apr 30, 2022)

Any update here?


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## Christianstark (Apr 30, 2022)

Nope. They said they are still working on it.


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## shaddr3 (Jul 9, 2022)

I just bought one of these two months ago and i'm finishing installing it now. I noticed it has a VERY laggy response time on movements. I have never seen a DRO like this. Are yours like this too?

Here's a video of it in action. 




Watch when the handwheel stops turning, the display is still counting.

Tech support emailed me back and said...

" That is normal when you go fast like that, if you are running at a normal cutting speed, it will keep up. But when you are just cranking the handles fast like that, its not going to read every single number as you go.     Nothing to worry about there, it will work fine and will not skip anything, and will read just fine with normal cutting speeds. "

It even does that cutting at normal speed and then coming to a stop. I only "cranked fast like that" just for the video.

My buddy's similar DroPro in comparison 




The display immediately stops when his handwheel stops.


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## Aukai (Jul 9, 2022)

That makes life a little difficult, I guess your stuck moving the carriage only as fast as the reader can update.


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## mksj (Jul 9, 2022)

I have the EL700 with magnetic scales, there is no lag. Yours (EL750) should not have that degree of lag, I wonder if it is related to the DRO or the magnetic scales they are using.


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## Lucas E (Jul 9, 2022)

I have 2 MX200s. One on a mill and one on a lathe. They both exhibit the lag. I wonder if it's caused by the feed rate display trying to calculate. They have issues with the feed rate display not displaying correctly, and are working to get a software update from the manufacturer. I just tried turning the feed rate display off to see if it helped and what do you know, even when it's turned off it still displays the feed rate.

I purchased an MX200 display to upgrade my MX100 cause I wanted the feed rate display, and then bought a complete MX200 package for my lathe. There are a number of issues with the units. The tool library doesn't display the tool numbers, just tool -- for every tool. Neither display will beep on approach unless I'm in metric mode. And my lathe cross slide keeps auto resetting the readout to 5 micron despite having 1 micron scales and being set to read out at 2 micron.

PM is aware of this issue and has been working on it for months. I have emailed them a few times over the past few weeks asking for an update and haven't received a response. It's honestly pissing me off.


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## shaddr3 (Jul 9, 2022)

You know I was thinking the same thing about the feedrate but noticed it still displays when turned off. It's really a shame. 

My old series 1 Bridgeport had a Sony magnescale on XY Knee AND quill. I wanted to buy a 4 axis from DroPros but they said they haven't sold one in years. I asked about the 3 axis and they said it wouldnt be in till Christmas and 2 axis is still a month or two out. I was not going to settle for a 2 axis on a brand new mill. 

I've used a TouchDro on some cheap Shahe scales and works really nice. I was planning on buying a Dro from PM for my Colchester but not until they have this ironed out. All of this is making TouchDro much more appealing again. I do have some DB connector breakout boards so I can probably wire up one of the Mx200 msg scales and test it out on the TouchDro.


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## davidpbest (Jul 9, 2022)

I would find that lag intolerable and it's hard for me to imagine this is expected "normal" behavior.


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## shaddr3 (Jul 10, 2022)

There's a gentleman that responded to a post I made in Facebook about my latency issue and he says his MX200 doesn't do that. Does anyone know the factory password in the setup menu?


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## Christianstark (Jul 10, 2022)

I can try mine today and see if I get the same behavior.


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## Christianstark (Jul 11, 2022)

Christianstark said:


> I can try mine today and see if I get the same behavior.


So I ran my mill on power feed, and stopped it, and the numbers settled down pretty quickly. I feel like it was quicker than what I saw in the video, but have no empirical data to show this. I do have a video however.


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## Just for fun (Jul 11, 2022)

I'll try mine after while also.   I know my feed rate doesn't work right.


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## wrljet (Jul 11, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> I would find that lag intolerable and it's hard for me to imagine this is expected "normal" behavior.


It is completely unusable.


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## wrljet (Jul 11, 2022)

The password may be 9 6 5 8 7.


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## shaddr3 (Jul 12, 2022)

Christianstark said:


> So I ran my mill on power feed, and stopped it, and the numbers settled down pretty quickly. I feel like it was quicker than what I saw in the video, but have no empirical data to show this. I do have a video however.


Yours seems to be quicker. I tried mine today again with the servo feed. 






Clearly lagging. 

My buddy sent me a video of his DroPro display about 6 years old now. I was going to buy but they were sold out of 3 axis until Christmas. 




I'm really hoping PM can admit there's a problem and stand behind their product. I've had nothing but good things to say about them for years now, many referrals for new machines too. This might just end it.


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## sr71xjet (Jul 14, 2022)

I hope so, cause i have one coming with my 1440TL hopefully at end of this month.


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## shaddr3 (Jul 17, 2022)

Looks like you'll be disappointed then. I showed them my video, and the other one that was posted. PM said....

"I don't see anything unusual from the ones we have here. As long as the position is being reported correctly when it stops, it's doing it's job."


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## jaek (Jul 17, 2022)

Playing back at half speed you can see that the feed rate says 8.1 inches per minute and displayed value are 0.009 inches apart which works out to updating 15 times a second. Christian's video showed values 2.375mm apart with a feed rate of 34.9 mm/sec, which is also close to 15 updates a second.

Seems like a pretty slow update rate compared to other DROs.

The manual (from DROPros) mentions a "Vibration Filter" as a per-axis option which might cause the effect you are seeing.


> In some applications because of vibration or unstable scale the values of the display could become unstable and unreadable. For example in grinding application because of the grinding machine vibration the values of the DRO display can become unstable. It disturbs the user. So this vibration filter function will help the operator to read the position correctly.


Maybe see if that feature is set and try turning it off?


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## mksj (Jul 17, 2022)

I have the EL700 from DRO Pros and it does not have a vibration filter, but I noted in the MX-200 there is one. I also use something similat to this as a VFD parameters to stabilize the speed, and as Jaek mentioned it usually increases the sampling time and averages the results. I would see if this is accessible through the setup menu for each axis and see if it can be turned off. The MX-200 is the same as the EL-750, but there seems to be a few software issues. DRO Pros now carries the EL-750 and the attached manual describes the vibration filter on page 38, I would start out by setting it to 00 which turns it off, the range is 00-20. You might also check the functions for feed rate that it is the proper axis and proper unit (inch vs. mm)


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## Christianstark (Jul 18, 2022)

I also want to point out that my unit is showing feed rate at a rate 3x what it actually is, and I think this is an affliction for all the units.

Example - Today I ran a test where the DRO was showing feed rate at 21" per minute.

I ran the power feed for 15 seconds, and I measured the table travel. The table traveled 1.75" in 15 seconds, or 7" per minute. would this translate to 5 updates per second, and not 15?




jaek said:


> Playing back at half speed you can see that the feed rate says 8.1 inches per minute and displayed value are 0.009 inches apart which works out to updating 15 times a second. Christian's video showed values 2.375mm apart with a feed rate of 34.9 mm/sec, which is also close to 15 updates a second.
> 
> Seems like a pretty slow update rate compared to other DROs.
> 
> ...


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## jaek (Jul 18, 2022)

Now that you mention, all math aside it does look more like 5 updates per second than 15.

Is the displayed feed rate also 3x actual if you switch the display to metric?

And does your DRO have the vibration filter turned on?


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## Christianstark (Jul 18, 2022)

Yes. It displays a feed rate 3x faster than actual table speed in metric, vibration filters are off on all axis


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## jaek (Jul 18, 2022)

That’s a bummer, but the relationship between the 3x feed rate and the very slow update rate makes me believe that this could be fixed in a new firmware version from the factory.

Unlikely that PM can do anything directly though…


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## shaddr3 (Jul 20, 2022)

I went through the MagXact MX-200 settings several times previously and nothing changed the feed rate or the latency issue.
In the meantime I used their magnetic scales and hooked up to a TouchDro. Keep in mind i'm using bluetooth communication which can contribute to some lag but still not nearly as bad as the MX200.


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## Christianstark (Jul 21, 2022)

shaddr3 said:


> I went through the MagXact MX-200 settings several times previously and nothing changed the feed rate or the latency issue.
> In the meantime I used their magnetic scales and hooked up to a TouchDro. Keep in mind i'm using bluetooth communication which can contribute to some lag but still not nearly as bad as the MX200.


Wow. That is a huge difference.


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## mksj (Jul 21, 2022)

Way too much lag with your MagXact MX-200 vs. everything else I have seen/used. They seem to have some software issues with this model, I do not think it is acceptable. It is clearly the DRO head unit and not the scales.


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## StevSmar (Jul 24, 2022)

mksj said:


> Way too much lag with your MagXact MX-200 vs. everything else I have seen/used. They seem to have some software issues with this model…


Hopefully it’s a software issue and not a hardware one.

I’ll be keeping an eye out for this problem when my mill arrives.


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## qualitymachinetools (Aug 3, 2022)

I was just made aware of this TODAY. 

It will get handled, just give me some time. The factory says yes its just a software update needed and they admit it, we have it, just trying to get it to install so we can send it out.


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## skcncx (Aug 3, 2022)

qualitymachinetools said:


> I was just made aware of this TODAY.
> 
> It will get handled, just give me some time. The factory says yes its just a software update needed and they admit it, we have it, just trying to get it to install so we can send it out.


Will future MX-200L kits be sent out with updated/corrected software?... Planning to add one to my existing PM-1236T order.


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## 7milesup (Aug 3, 2022)

qualitymachinetools said:


> I was just made aware of this TODAY.
> 
> It will get handled, just give me some time. The factory says yes its just a software update needed and they admit it, we have it, just trying to get it to install so we can send it out.


I don't have a dog in this fight but seriously, these guys have had issues since March and you say that you JUST heard of this.  I find that hard to believe or maybe harder to believe that the employees were unable to convey that to the owner of PM.


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## StevSmar (Aug 3, 2022)

qualitymachinetools said:


> …The factory says yes its just a software update neede….


That’s great news. When it’s ready, if it’s available on your website I’ll download and install it

(once my mill arrives in a few weeks of course…)


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## IamNotImportant (Aug 3, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I don't have a dog in this fight but seriously, these guys have had issues since March and you say that you JUST heard of this.  I find that hard to believe or maybe harder to believe that the employees were unable to convey that to the owner of PM.


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## Lucas E (Aug 3, 2022)

qualitymachinetools said:


> I was just made aware of this TODAY.
> 
> It will get handled, just give me some time. The factory says yes its just a software update needed and they admit it, we have it, just trying to get it to install so we can send it out.


Are they planning on fixing all the issues in the software update? It would be a shame to go through the effort of updating the software and not taking care of all the issues. Here is what I'm experiencing personally on my 2 units:

1. Lag of the readout - slow response time
2. Feed rate display showing incorrect feed rate and also the option to turn it off doesn't work
3. Tool library does not display the number of the tool, it just displays tool -- for every item loaded in there
4. Beep on approach only works in metric mode
5. The DRO constantly resets itself to 5 micron readout (.0002" divisions) when set to 2 micron. If I change to another setting and then change back it will read out at .0001" for a while then out of nowhere will start reading at .0002". When I go to settings it still shows it's set at 2 micron despite reading in .0002 intervals. Switching to 1 micron readout makes it read in 5 decimal places even though the last digit is always zero.

Additionally, can you provide some instructions on rehoming the scales in the event of a power outage, or if the scales are moved while the DRO is off? I need to do this from time to time to make sure my tool library aligns with the spindle and it seems like homing functions don't work as intended.

Please chime in if I've forgot other issues that need to be addressed.


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## qualitymachinetools (Aug 4, 2022)

Thats why I have people other than myself to handle things, yes I just heard about it. If you think I can handle every single issue by myself, I do not know what you are thinking or how that could even be possible. When I need to get involved I do, but I certainly could not handle everything alone.
   The tech tickets are from 3 people (Who I think are all posting here) out of hundreds of these MX200s that we have shipped, no mention of any other problems and are using them without issue. I use one of these personally on a mill in the shop here and didn't notice a problem with the lag or anything else, until it was mentioned yesterday, then I looked at it and said huh that does seem different, but it might not be the same as those with the issue because mine did not alarm me without it being brought up.

  It aint a show stopper, that's for sure. The tech guys have been working with the people at the factory over there, they tried to put in an update that the factory sent but it failed 2x when we tried it. (Not me, the IT guy that we have who is good at this kind of thing)

 They have a ton of emails back and forth from the factory to explain it, I think they get it now, just have to see if that software update fixes it. And when it does, we will just exchange displays out, thats probably the easiest way for those who have an issue. I can see that tech did drop the ball on updating customers about the progress though.

Like I said, it WILL be handled. 

As far as the homing and other things Lucas, I am not familiar with what you are asking exactly, please add to your tech ticket if you have a question about that too if not already in there.


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## Christianstark (Sep 21, 2022)

Received tracking information for a replacement MX200-M this morning. Should be able to give impressions when I install it. It has been updated re: Software/Firmware.


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## sr71xjet (Sep 21, 2022)

So what do we need to do to get this update?  Will it be a firmware update or replacement?


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## Christianstark (Sep 21, 2022)

Not sure. I may be a beta tester, or they may be running through folks by order date, but for me it will be a swap out.


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## Christianstark (Sep 21, 2022)

I am also not sure if all DRO's were impacted or just some.I had a ticket in with PM for this for quite some time.


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## sr71xjet (Sep 21, 2022)

Mine lags but have just been watching the thread. Got my 1440TL in August 


Christianstark said:


> I am also not sure if all DRO's were impacted or just some.I had a ticket in with PM for this for quite some time.


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## Just for fun (Sep 21, 2022)

sr71xjet said:


> Mine lags but have just been watching the thread. Got my 1440TL in August


If you haven't already you should contact PM and have a ticket put in and get on their list.


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## sr71xjet (Sep 21, 2022)

Ill do that thanks


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## B2 (Sep 21, 2022)

sr71xjet said:


> So what do we need to do to get this update? Will it be a firmware update or replacement?



I probably purchased the first mag DRO that PM sold and they installed it for me on my 1440GT.  I think it is equivalent to the model MX100, as the button layout is similar, but it does not have the current PM labels etc.    Anyway, the calibration was off on one axis when I got it.  Since I live in Pgh I just took it back to them and they did a USB firmware upgrade while I waited.  Seems fine afterwards. 

Dave L.


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## Christianstark (Sep 23, 2022)

HUGE improvement...


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## Just for fun (Sep 24, 2022)

That looks good, did they send you a replacement head unit?


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## Christianstark (Sep 24, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> That looks good, did they send you a replacement head unit?



Yes. I have to send back mine, and I assume they will be updating them in a rolling fashion


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## Lucas E (Sep 28, 2022)

My new DRO with the updated software still seems to be showing lag. It's not near as fast as my old MX100 with the segmented display. Here is a side by side with the new software and the old software on my lathe. Although the lathe is probably running a little bit slower (I can't match the feed rates cause the old software has messed up feed rates).






It does seem like they fixed the feed rate issue with the software update, but did not address the tool library or the beep on approach. I can currently only get beep on approach to work at 1mm or .039 when in inch mode. If you try to change the distance at which it beeps it either doesn't work, or resets itself to .039".

Here's a picture of what the tool library looks like when you load tools in to it. It doesn't display tool 01, tool 02, tool 03, tool 04 etc.

I've emailed them about all these issues and again mentioned them in post 94 of this thread so I'm not sure why they didn't address them with the software update.


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## Aukai (Sep 28, 2022)

Do we know if the MX 100 has the same deficiencies?


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## qualitymachinetools (Sep 28, 2022)

As far as the zero approach, the tolerance can not be higher than the setting.     Set it to something like 1" for the X Axis to try it. Set tolerance to zero.

From the DRO Operation Screen: (Make sure you are in Inch Mode before doing anything below)
Press   Right Arrow
Setup
User Setup, press SEL
Press Down Arrow and get to Zero App Tolerance, set that to 0.0000
Press down arrow to Select Axis
Select the axis you want to set the Zero App on (Say X Axis for this example)
Press the down arrow to Zero App Distance, set this to 1.0000
Press the down arrow until you are at Save & Exit
Press Save
Now press the Down Arrow until you see Save & Exit
Press Save
Now you are back at the home DRO Screen

Press Fn
Make sure Zero Approach is on. If not, then turn it on, and press Exit.

 This is something you would use if you are milling or turning a long part and want it to beep when you get close. Like an inch away, maybe 5", depending how fast you are going.

 Its more of a warning you set up. Example is to set it at 1" Above. Thats good for slow feed rates on a mill or lathe, you want more if its faster.   Then you can turn the beep off and on as you please with just a couple buttons.


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## qualitymachinetools (Sep 28, 2022)

I will get those tools fixed, I did not see that before on the mill one.


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## Christianstark (Sep 28, 2022)

qualitymachinetools said:


> I will get those tools fixed, I did not see that before on the mill one.


Will there be a better way to DIY the updates moving forward?


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## Lucas E (Sep 28, 2022)

qualitymachinetools said:


> As far as the zero approach, the tolerance can not be higher than the setting.     Set it to something like 1" for the X Axis to try it. Set tolerance to zero.
> 
> From the DRO Operation Screen: (Make sure you are in Inch Mode before doing anything below)
> Press   Right Arrow
> ...


I got it to beep at 1", but that's effectively useless for me. I like to use it when milling slots to depth and just want it to beep right at the end so I don't zone out and overshoot. I dont want it beeping for 75% of my cut or I'll lose my mind.

I tried setting it back to .050" after changing it to 1" and it took 5 times of me going through the settings and changing it to actually get it to change. There is something wrong with the software, and I think it discourages people from using those features since they are an exercise in frustration. I could not get it to work at anything below .039" so I suspect 1mm is the minimum it allows you to set it at. Not sure why it would have this limitation.


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## slodat (Nov 17, 2022)

@qualitymachinetools I bought one of these DRO's at the beginning of the year. I'm just getting to installing it. How do I get this new firmware?


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## MikeWi (Nov 17, 2022)

slodat said:


> @qualitymachinetools I bought one of these DRO's at the beginning of the year. I'm just getting to installing it. How do I get this new firmware?


send an email to tech@precisionmatthews.com and we'll take care of it. it has to be returned to us for the update. it's not easy to do.

edit: left the H out of matthews.


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## MikeWi (Nov 17, 2022)

BTW version 1.1.2 is the correct one. If it shows that at the bottom of the screen when it starts, you're good to go.


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## slodat (Nov 17, 2022)

@MikeWi thank you. Email sent!


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