# How to choose a keyless chuck with R8 spindle



## josef (Jun 18, 2022)

I have a PM-932 mill drill and I've been using the keyed chuck I got with it for 5 years.  Now I'd like to get a keyless chuck.  There are many out there and I"m willing to pay some amount of money, but don't know if there are brands that are better than others.  Any recommendations would be helpful.  Should I look for one with an R8 adapter or an integral R8 spindle?


----------



## Asm109 (Jun 18, 2022)

I would buy one with a straight shank. .5 or .75 inch diameter.
Two reasons. You can swap it in and out with a lot less headroom on the mill than an integral R8 shank.
Second, keyless chucks can self tighten when drilling large holes or if there is a shock like when you break through. The can get so tight you need a strap wrench to loosen.
I would rather have a straight shank with a chance to slip in a collet and avoid that scenario.


----------



## Aukai (Jun 18, 2022)

There are some past posts on this subject if you search. I have older Albrecht chucks, and I also like the PM chuck, it's keyless but has a spanner wrench.


			https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/18-58-ultra-high-precision-keyless-drill-chuck/


----------



## MikeInOr (Jun 18, 2022)

I have two Rohm keyless chucks which I bought used, took apart and cleaned up.  I put a R8 shank on one and a 3/4" straight shank on the other.  I always grab the one with the R8 shank.  I don't think I have ever used the one with a straight .75 shank on it.  I guess it depends a lot on how you work and what you are used to doing.


----------



## Winegrower (Jun 18, 2022)

In terms of performance, I use keyless and keyed chucks on both the mill and the lathe.   I have a few Albrecht chucks that are OK, one that I got used that is marginal and can slip a bit, keyed Jacobs from little to 20N size, that always work, but several eBay cheapo ($25-$35) keyless that work very well.   I have R8 shanks, straight shanks, MT3 shanks and Kwik Switch adapters.    The mill uses Kwik Switch adapted chucks, occasionally an R8 shank, but rarely now.  The lathe uses MT3 shanks but occasionally I put a straight shank chuck in the lathe chuck to hold smallish parts.

If money is a factor, I see no real need for Albrecht chucks.   If money isn't a factor, could I get a phone number?


----------



## josef (Jun 18, 2022)

Well, money is a reasonable factor.  I can spend $200 if I need to, but not sure I need to.  I like to do good work but if I'm not a professional machinist, just an artist blacksmith who does machinist type work to build tooling and fixturing.  I just finished what I call my monster square which is a take-off on fireball tools square, but using square tubing and flat bar.
I like the idea of a straight shaft because I do a lot of milling with a 3/4" end mill, and have made tap holders for 1/2" and 5/8" taps that fit in a 3/4" collet.


----------



## Ken from ontario (Jun 18, 2022)

I've heard good things about Precision Mathews  drill chucks but if you can find a decent used Albrecht chuck , you'll not regret buying it.
Glacern chucks also get  lots of praises and their prices seem to be going up lately.


----------



## wachuko (Jun 18, 2022)

I really like the one I got from Precision Matthews…. so much so that I also got one for the Grizzly lathe and the second milling machine that I bought recently…

I have this one in the G0704






						0-1/2 Ultra Precision Keyless Drill Chuck – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.
					






					www.precisionmatthews.com
				




And this one in the Wells-Index



			https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/18-58-ultra-high-precision-keyless-drill-chuck/
		


And this one in the G0709 lathe…



			https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/18-58-ultra-high-precision-keyless-drill-chuck-mt3/


----------



## mmcmdl (Jun 18, 2022)

I have a few Albrecht's left in the arsenal . Never had any issues with them in the past 44 years . I have never used any other brand so I can't comment on them .


----------



## MrWhoopee (Jun 18, 2022)

Yes, go with the 3/4 straight shank, then shorten it.


----------



## wachuko (Jun 18, 2022)

MrWhoopee said:


> Yes, go with the 3/4 straight shank, then shorten it.
> 
> View attachment 410481


I would have never thought of that.  Cool!


----------



## JRaut (Jun 19, 2022)

MrWhoopee said:


> Yes, go with the 3/4 straight shank, then shorten it.
> 
> View attachment 410481


This is definitely the way to go, especially if you do a lot of work using your 3/4” collet.

I’ve got an eBay-special Albrecht on an R8 arbor and recently swapped to a 3/4” shank.

And now I think I’ll head down to the shop to shorten it a bit. Thanks @MrWhoopee!


----------



## Parlo (Jun 19, 2022)

Albrecht with integral shank are nice and short. This is something you will use more than most other things so I would definitely buy Albrecht. I recently bought a 5/8" capacity, this is great for tapping over M6 ( 1/4" ) it holds better. If you don't drill under 1/8" go for the larger size.


----------



## tq60 (Jun 19, 2022)

Problem with keyless and tapping is in reverse they let go.

We hand tap often in the mill as we do a lot of 8-32.

We drill hole then insert tap.

Turn by hand but first you use the spindle brake to hold spindle then tighten chuck with a good grip and turn.

When turning in reverse try to grab the fixed part of the chuck.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


----------



## higgite (Jun 19, 2022)

Asm109 said:


> I would buy one with a straight shank. .5 or .75 inch diameter.
> Two reasons. You can swap it in and out with a lot less headroom on the mill than an integral R8 shank.
> Second, keyless chucks can self tighten when drilling large holes or if there is a shock like when you break through. The can get so tight you need a strap wrench to loosen.
> I would rather have a straight shank with a chance to slip in a collet and avoid that scenario.


I was under the impression that slippage in a collet was bad for both the collet and the shank. Am I misinformed or did I just dream it? Or both? 

Tom


----------



## mmcmdl (Jun 19, 2022)

I'll add this . The largest drill you'll use is I'm sure are S&D drills . A 400 - 500 buck Albrecht chuck is not the tool to run these drills . It is a precision drill chuck . You can get a 3/4" keyed Jacobs ( not SBB ) for $30 bucks and blow the hole thru whatever you're making . You always step out the hole anyways . If you like a good keyless , keep it good . Buy both an Albrecht and a beater chuck for the grunt work . JMO , your mileage may vary as always .


----------



## Parlo (Jun 19, 2022)

higgite said:


> I was under the impression that slippage in a collet was bad for both the collet and the shank. Am I misinformed or did I just dream it? Or both?
> 
> Tom


That's true, the shanks are soft and will score just like drill bits. The other problems are with straight shanks are that they locate on a Jacobs taper which if knocked can send the chuck out of true. Also they are only quicker to change if the appropriate collet is already in the spindle and the table is close to the spindle nose. I would stick to integral shanks for durability & longevity.


----------



## projectnut (Jun 20, 2022)

Once again, I must be the odd man out.  I have about 2 dozen different size chucks for the lathes and mills.  Of that number only 2 are keyless.  Both are Albrecht.  One was purchased new and the other came with one of the lathes.  

The keyless ones are by far the least used.  As mentioned, they tend to overtighten when drilling tough material, and loosen when reversing.  I do a fair amount of tapping and they tend to make the process more cumbersome than necessary.  I prefer the older "made in the USA" Jacobs super chucks.  They're often found used on eBay for decent prices, and can be rebuilt if necessary.

Be careful if you go that route.  The older Jacobs chucks have the logo and other information engraved in the chuck not printed on it.  

Here's an example of an older one.  Note the size and other information are engraved in the parts:








						Jacobs #20N ball bearing super chuck, sleeve & body  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Jacobs #20N ball bearing super chuck, sleeve & body at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




Here's an example of a newer model.  This chuck was probably made in China and is no where near the quality of the older ones.  Note the information is printed on the body:








						Jacobs Model 14N 1/2" x 3JT Super Ball Bearing Keyed Drill Chuck- TIR .003"  | eBay
					

14N 0.040" 0.500" 3JT K3 3.88" 2.97" 2.44". For more than 100 years, superior grip and accuracy have made Jacobs the industry leader, with Jacobs technology applied to everything from sophisticated CNC machining centers to cordless portable drills.



					www.ebay.com


----------



## mmcmdl (Jun 20, 2022)

I bought a China made 14N about a year ago as a comparison to my older chucks , and I also have more than a few dozen . I really saw no difference in quality . Other than not saying Made in  Hartford on the chuck , it ran true and looked good . It was still expensive also . I still feel a used USA made chuck would be better though , but that's just me . I try to buy Made in USA products if possible .


----------



## josef (Jun 20, 2022)

Oh boy.  Thanks everyone for all the suggestions.  As a friend of mine used to say, "I think, therefore I am confused."
One good thing about these forums is that when I ask a question, the responses make me slow down and try to think.  I thought that I wanted a keyless chuck because it would be quicker and easier to change bits, and that may be so.  However, there are lots of other considerations.  So for the time being, I'm going to keep scanning the internet to look at options.  The Precision Matthews might be a good way to go for drilling small up to 1/2".  But sounds like if I need to drill bigger, I might want to stick with keyed.  I don't tap using the chuck.  I make tap holders to fit into collets.
One thing for sure is that I don't want something that will be an irritation instead of a help.  I bought a Dewalt cordless drill a while back that drives me nuts because the chuck doesn't loosen easily.  Often I have to tighten it before I can loosen it.  Makes no sense.


----------



## Parlo (Jun 20, 2022)

josef said:


> Oh boy.  Thanks everyone for all the suggestions.  As a friend of mine used to say, "I think, therefore I am confused."
> One good thing about these forums is that when I ask a question, the responses make me slow down and try to think.  I thought that I wanted a keyless chuck because it would be quicker and easier to change bits, and that may be so.  However, there are lots of other considerations.  So for the time being, I'm going to keep scanning the internet to look at options.  The Precision Matthews might be a good way to go for drilling small up to 1/2".  But sounds like if I need to drill bigger, I might want to stick with keyed.  I don't tap using the chuck.  I make tap holders to fit into collets.
> One thing for sure is that I don't want something that will be an irritation instead of a help.  I bought a Dewalt cordless drill a while back that drives me nuts because the chuck doesn't loosen easily.  Often I have to tighten it before I can loosen it.  Makes no sense.


Some keyless chucks on cordless drills once tightened need to be turned back until a click is heard. This locks the chuck and prevents further tightening.


----------



## josef (Jun 21, 2022)

Well, I learn something new everyday, or try to.  Many thanks Parlo for telling me about that trick.  I went and tried it on the DeWalt which I had been cursing unfairly.  It works.


----------



## davidpbest (Jun 21, 2022)

This Albrecht with integral R8 will set you back about $280 delivered (postage cost is typically about the same as the VAT rebate).  I bring Albrecht and Vertex stuff in from them to the USA all the time.



			http://www.rotagriponline.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=10530&category_id=1101&keyword=albrecht+r8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=29


----------

