# Used american tooling vs. new chinese ?



## HMF (Mar 27, 2011)

Basic Question:


If you were about to buy some tooling (rotary table, diver plates, test indicator, face mill, height gauge, qctp, boring head) and could either afford to buy new chinese tools or used american stuff off ebay or Craig's List. Which would you be better off doing?


Are there some tools that you would be better off getting new as they wear &amp; others where used american would be better?


Thanks,

Nelson


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## Brett Hurt (Apr 24, 2011)

It comes done to the money that is why every one goes to WALLMART, IF i NEED A TOOL frist I shop it on line, like my atlas shaper ebay was over $600 cl was $300 in my town and they delivered it for free . This is fun, I live in ca. gas is $4.25  I look at the price, I just bought a 20in drill press from hf and it works well, better than my last one, but frist I found 20off coupon on line.


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## GerryR (Apr 24, 2011)

Even what you think is American made isn't. If a certain percentage of something is "assembled" here, you can print "Made in the USA" on it. I know an instance where some equipment is brought in from India. The company takes it apart, basically cleans it (not really needed), re-assembles it and tags it "Made in the USA." This is pretty pathetic. Recently, a gunsmith friend of mine purchased a Wilton Vise that he had wanted for years, a $400. machinists vise. He disassembled it to check for burrs, lube, etc., and when he took the screw out, he got a cup full of chips, and yes, it says "Made in the USA" on it. So, after all this, my question is this, "What does Made in the USA actually mean anymore?"

My decisions on tooling and tools are based on whether I can remain competitive and stay in business with the purchases I make. If a Chinese tool (not talking junk here) allows me to stay in business and a USA made tool would make me non-competitive and lose a contract, then I see no reason not to use the "enemies bullets" against them. What good is it to have a shop full of USA made tools and go out of business?


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## Tony Wells (Apr 24, 2011)

Mayhem link=topic=1417.msg11788#msg11788 date=1303656034 said:
			
		

> knudsen link=topic=1417.msg11706#msg11706 date=1303607249 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And THAT reminded me of an agnostic dyslexic that wondered if there really was a Dog!


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## GerryR (Apr 24, 2011)

Or the Dyslexic anorexic who looked in the mirror and didn't think he was fat enough!


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## wawoodman (Apr 24, 2011)

I hope all you guys are dues-paying members of DAM. (Mothers Against Dyslexia)

I prefer to buy American, when I can. But as was said earlier, you do what you gotta do. Love is love, but money is money.


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## Brett Hurt (Apr 24, 2011)

wawoodman you are right it is money is money, and for all of you go buy a new Chevy, or ford and see where the parts come from not us it is all about the money, So today Iam going to Harbor fright for 25% OFF SALLE for easter sunday only to day shop shop shop ho a Brett


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## Steevo (Apr 24, 2011)

I am taking my 25% off coupon and going to HF today too!


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## Brett Hurt (Apr 24, 2011)

Harbor fright was great got us made link belt for the 20in hf drill press I GOT WISH i HAD THAT ONE WHEN I bought the drill press in march oh well Brett


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## trg-s338 (Apr 26, 2011)

I buy from Harbor Freight if the tool I need does not require precision, reliablility,longevity or smooth function, like one or two time use applications. I certainly don't need a Porter Cable sander for taking rust off of a piece of cast iron. For my machine tools however, I buy used American for many reasons important to me. I have a deep appreciation for machines built at a time when the proper amount of cast iron put into a tool is not regulated by bean counters, when art, design and engineering was manifested in the casting as well as function, when high quality and craftsmanship in manufacturing were a matter of pride, a lifetime of dedication. Consider my Brown and Sharp Vertical Mill, second of only five verticals built between 1953 and 1955. I saved it from the salvage man when a small, local shop had to close down because business dried up and no one was interested in the mill because it was too massive (4300 lbs) , too old, too much hassle. Before shut down, the previous owner demonstrates the mill hogging out a 1/2 inch deep, inch wide channel in some steel over two feet distance in a single pass at some ungodly feed rate, like the proverbial hot knife through butter, smooth as silk, quick and precise. Such a feat would make your new Bridgeport or Grizzly feel like a Harbor Freight mill/drill. Powered knee, rapids on the 4 foot long table, powered quill, all for $500.00 on eBAY. Sadly, (or not) I was the only bidder. I also have a Monarch 10ee, a Sheldon Shaper but I will defer extolting their virtues for another time. I have no qualms about buying Chinese if the need is for low priority, basic quality, and disposablity. I have nothing against those who choose Chinese machine tools, their rationale, their needs and their budgets are their own. For me, tools that have to last me a lifetime must be American from that time when Industrial America was in its premier. Perhaps there are repairs coming in my future but it will be a labor of love and appreciation for these magnificent machines of a long lost era.


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## Zigeuner (Apr 26, 2011)

The thread has expanded to milling machines and such. I looked for an American lathe for a miling machine and lathe for some ten years at machinery auctions and locally. This was before the advent of eBay for finding such things. I sure looked at a lot of worn out machines. 

Thus, I was forced to buy Chinese for a lathe. (Enco 13 X40) It's now 16 years old and counting and it's likely it will outlast me. 

After searching for some ten years for a decent mill in my area, I finally got a lead to a Webb 4VH (3,500 pounds). It was built in Taiwan in 1987 and, with some work, it's been completely rejuvenated. It will do some rather large cuts. 

I thought about buying something used on eBay but I couldn't bring myself to buy something that weighs close to two tons that I couldn't look at carefully first, not to mention paying for shipping on something of that size. . 

I did look at a Monarch 10EE that was avaiable in the same warehouse where I got my Webb. It was rather thoroughly worn out and the seller wanted $4,000. I had never seen one up close before but that one needed a good scraping so I passed. . 

It's certainly a worthwhile ideal to want all American equipment, but it's not in the cards for most of us. The fact is that good used American equipment is hard to find and the Chinese stuff works, like it or not. 

Welding machines are quite different, though. They are readily available new in brands like Miller, Lincoln and Hobart so one can certainly go all American there. I did, anyway. 

I don't see a problem with buying Chinese anymore. Most of the items are rather well made, readily available and affordable. If I were trying to make a living as a machinist, I wouldn't be looking at manual machines anyway.


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