# My Rockwell 14 X 40 Lathe



## 4GSR (Oct 16, 2015)

I recently purchased a Rockwell 14" lathe, which is in very nice decent shape.  I don't know how Buba missed this lathe, but I'm glad he did!  The lathe is equipped with a taper attachment that does not look as if it has ever been used.  
But there is one issue that bothers me, the gear on the headstock spindle that shifts it from back gear to direct drive has been removed. Appears they replace it with a spacer, making the back gear totally useless.  I have the gear sitting on my desk.  It was down in the storage cabinet with all of the other junk that was thrown in there.  I haven't had a chance to open the headstock to see what all is going on at the moment, but once I get it inside, will do so. 
The question I have to others out there that have a 14" lathe, is there a chance of getting the OD dimension of the nut that goes on the end of the spindle, as well as the length of the nut?  Mine is missing off of the spindle, and I will need to make another one to replace the missing one.

Ken


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## kd4gij (Oct 17, 2015)

I don't have any info on your lathe. But We need pictures. With out pictures it never happened. And we need to get the  { This Thread Is Worthless With Out Pictures } smiley back.


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## 4GSR (Oct 17, 2015)

If I had the nut available I would not need to post a thread here.

No, I'm not posting any pictures!  Anyone who own's a 14" Rockwell lathe already knows what I'm asking for.  If not, they can send a PM to me and I'll be glad to post a copy of the parts manual showing the take  up nut I'm asking about.


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## kd4gij (Oct 17, 2015)

Sorry I didn't mean to offend you at all. Just when a member post they got a new to them tool, some of us like to see pictures The phrases that I post are meant to be fun humor and not to offend anyone.


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## middle.road (Oct 17, 2015)

kd4gij said:


> Sorry I didn't mean to offend you at all. Just when a member post they got a new to them tool, some of us like to see pictures The phrases that I post are meant to be fun humor and not to offend anyone.


+1   --  I have to agree with KD, 

It is normal around *H-M* to post picts. It helps to keep the flow and sharing of information going, and that makes this a great place to hang.
As for the comment "_Anyone who own's a 14" Rockwell lathe already knows what I'm asking for..._"
I'll have to point out that if a new user who happened to score a Rockwell were to join here in the future and need the same info,
and see this post, he/she would walk away shaking their head at that type of *attitude*.


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## wa5cab (Oct 18, 2015)

One cannot photograph that which one does not have.  Drawings of small parts from illustrated parts lists may or may not help.


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## middle.road (Oct 18, 2015)

wa5cab said:


> Besides which, it should be obvious to anyone that if someone needs a part that they don't have, they probably have no way in which to produce a photograph of the missing part. I have no idea what the missing nut looks like, but a photograph of the left end of the spindle showing the I assume bare threads wouldn't do a thing to change that.


No, but a picture would help someone unfamiliar with a 'Rockwell 14 X 40 Lathe' to identify what a person would need to look for.
I would hazard a guess that there a numerous styles of those around.
I know a scrapper/collector in this area and he's got a couple of tired old Rockwell's sitting in one of his out-buildings.
I've tried to talk him into parting out his stuff but he doesn't want to go near a computer, or even list them in the want ads, and
I should never have mentioned CL, I think he saw that one movie and has a rather negative view of CL.
I thought to myself when I read Ken's post that I might run over there next week and see what might be left on them and available.

Don't assume that what you may consider obvious is obvious to others.


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## British Steel (Oct 18, 2015)

I have to agree with Dan and KD, even a pic of where it **should** go could spark someone's memory, or they may have one of its clones under another name and be able to help. I've seen quite a few different lathes in my time and might even have worked on one without remembering what it was called - I find the mechanics a lot easier than the names, mechanics follows rules...


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## kd4gij (Oct 18, 2015)

With out a model # or picture I did find this parts manual for a Rockwell 14" lathe hope it helps.

http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/698/3465.pdf


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## 4GSR (Oct 18, 2015)

Guys, in due time, I promise to post some pictures.  
Right now, it's on a trailer, waiting to be unloaded as soon as the 20" Lodge & Shipley is removed by it's new owner and gone.   
Yes, I have done all of the up front stuff like finding parts manuals and anything else that exists out there.  Including spare parts.  The Rockwell group on Yahoo has lots of good information available.  That is where I found most of the stuff as well as on the Vintage Machinery's website, too.
And kd4gij, my apology for the comment left, sorry.


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## jjtgrinder (Oct 30, 2015)

4GSR - did you ever get the nut info you wanted?  I can get it off my machine.  JJTGrinder


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## 4GSR (Oct 30, 2015)

jjtgrinder said:


> 4GSR - did you ever get the nut info you wanted?  I can get it off my machine.  JJTGrinder
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



No, I did not.  I still like to get the information so when I get to that point, make the nut.


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## jjtgrinder (Oct 30, 2015)

Would it be the "pully retainer nut" , number 12 on the parts list?
I will post a photo tomorrow of the parts list page that way you can specify which part.


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## 4GSR (Oct 31, 2015)

jjtgrinder said:


> Would it be the "pully retainer nut" , number 12 on the parts list?
> I will post a photo tomorrow of the parts list page that way you can specify which part.



Yep, that's it.  I have the parts list that I copied from the Rockwell Metalworking Lathe group.  But feel free to post if you like for others to see.
Thanks,
Ken


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## jjtgrinder (Oct 31, 2015)

4gsr said:


> Yep, that's it.  I have the parts list that I copied from the Rockwell Metalworking Lathe group.  But feel free to post if you like for others to see.
> Thanks,
> Ken



i uploaded a diagram "20151031".
For the serial numbers 133-4208 and higher the nut is a  (*1 3/4*-*16)* , for the serial numbers  lower than 133-4208 the nut is a* (* 1 *7/8* - *16)*.
----------------------------------------------------   part ref no 86 -/\  ---------------------------------------------------------------part ref no 800 - /\.
Let me know what your serial number is.  And how to proceed.  
My serial number is 137-6706.  So my nut is probably a 1.75-16.

JJTGrinder


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## 4GSR (Oct 31, 2015)

Not too worried about the thread, but its nice to know ahead of time.  S/N of mine is 1515517,  according to the stuff in the Rockwell Lathe group over on Yahoo, it was born in 1970.
Ken

Edit:   Thanks for the download.  That's a little bit different from that that I have on hand.  The headstock configuration I have  matches to that in the second page (42).  It's item 86 that I need dimensional information on.  Just need the OD and the length or thickness of the nut.  I can figure out the thread bore.


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## jjtgrinder (Nov 1, 2015)

4gsr said:


> Not too worried about the thread, but its nice to know ahead of time.  S/N of mine is 1515517,  according to the stuff in the Rockwell Lathe group over on Yahoo, it was born in 1970.
> Ken
> 
> Edit:   Thanks for the download.  That's a little bit different from that that I have on hand.  The headstock configuration I have  matches to that in the second page (42).  It's item 86 that I need dimensional information on.  Just need the OD and the length or thickness of the nut.  I can figure out the thread bore.


Get it for you this week.
JJTGRINDER


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## 4GSR (Nov 1, 2015)

jjtgrinder said:


> Get it for you this week.
> JJTGRINDER



Thanks,
Ken


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## jjtgrinder (Nov 3, 2015)

My daughter (and husband, grandkids) came over this weekend. That always changes my shop time.  Did not get the info for you, I am going to get it tonight if possible.
no reply expected,  John


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## jjtgrinder (Nov 3, 2015)

Here is the info you need.











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## jjtgrinder (Nov 3, 2015)

if you need any other clarification, let me know.  There was only one set screw , on the opposing side was a hole for a spanner wrench to loosen the part.  Oh shoot, just realized I did not give the diameter of the boss.  Get that tomorrow, it was about one quarter inch wide.


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## jjtgrinder (Nov 4, 2015)

The boss is about 2.125 inches in diameter and from the pic about .130 high.



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## jjtgrinder (Nov 4, 2015)

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## jjtgrinder (Nov 4, 2015)

The overall width of the part is about .927 inch , I did not clean so actual is prob .925".


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## T Bredehoft (Nov 4, 2015)

That's a good way to transmit information. Kudos!


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## 4GSR (Nov 4, 2015)

John,

THANK YOU KINDLY!!!

That is what I need.  I didn't expect you to pull it off your lathe, but I greatly appreciate it.

Ken


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## jjtgrinder (Nov 4, 2015)

No problem, glad to help, let me know if something else comes up.

John


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## 4GSR (Nov 4, 2015)

Will do.

One thing that does come to mind is the clutch brake used on this lathe. The Conway Clutch company that used to make these is not in business anymore.
Does anyone know of a replacement clutch brake or parts for a existing one are available from another company?


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## jjtgrinder (Nov 6, 2015)

I don't have a brake , don't know.


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## 4GSR (Nov 6, 2015)

jjtgrinder said:


> I don't have a brake , don't know.........



The lever that you engage  the clutch with, when pushed the other direction past neutral should engage the brake and stop the spindle quickly.  Might need adjust the brake side of the clutch to get it to work.


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## jjtgrinder (Nov 6, 2015)

NO, Your machine is a new model with a brake.  The machines built in the 60's did not have the brake and it could not be added as an option.  That's what I was implying.  I do not know anything about the brakes because mine doesn't have one.  My machine will stop in about 12 seconds.  I plan to implement an "electronic" brake in the future with the VFD.


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## 4GSR (Dec 20, 2015)

I was able to get a pitch diameter measurement off of the thread on the back end of the spindle yesterday.  It measured at 1.702".  Working backwards, I determined the thread is a 1.750-16 UN RH thread. Probably a class 2A since the PD dimension is at the bottom of the tolerance for the external thread.  Just so happens I have a tap for the same thread that makes a handy gage and a way for me to size the nut without going oversize on the PD.  Thread bore for this thread is 1.682/1.696".  These measurements confirm with John's measurements in the previous post for the thread size.  Now, all I have to do is make a nut.  I'm thinking about making it long enough for mounting a small chuck or "cat head" device for supporting long shafts or tubes.

Ken

PS.  Still waiting on the 20" L & S lathe to disappear from my garage so I can get this off the trailer in it's place.


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## junk iron (Aug 27, 2016)

Hey fellows  I picked up one of these 14 in lathe,it's leaking a little oil around shaft where you put it in back gear,saw the parts manual that is posted in this thread and it looks lik o ring,anyone ever replaced this o ring? Thanks


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## 4GSR (Aug 31, 2016)

Nope.
I will be pulling mine soon to fix the worm gear, put it back in position to engage the gear on the eccentric that engages the back gear.  On my lathe, the back gear was disabled where it could not be used by someone in the past before I bought mine.  It appears to be an easy removal of the shaft to replace the O-Ring.  You may have to remove the roll pin holding the sleeve on the shaft as well as any other pins yours may have in place.

If you haven't already done so, visit the Rockwell Lathe group on Yahoo grooups for lots of information posted there.

www.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RockwellLathe/conversations/messages

(The link above is not working for me, can't figure it out either)

Note: You will have to drain the oil out of the headstock to do this repair, unless you want about two gallons of oil to pour out on everything!

Ken


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## 4GSR (Aug 31, 2016)

For anyone who might be interested in what the inside of the headstock looks like on a 14" Rockwell lathe.  As I mentioned above, someone disabled the back gear on my lathe long before I bought it.  I have a stray gear that looks like it came from the headstock, so I figured it was toast and would never have a back gear for use when needed.
Well, once I opened up the headstock and saw what was going on, I think I'm in better shape than I first thought.  That gear was replaced with a new replacement, but they put a spacer in behind the gear to always keep it in gear.  They removed the pawl or shoe that rode in the groove of the gear that engaged it for back gear. I will have to make a new one when I get a chance.  The other thing they did was re-position the worm on the shaft where it would not engage the worm gear on the back gear, which is used to engage the back gear with the spindle bull gear.  I hope this can be fixed with out too much difficulty.  Other than that, the headstock looks nice on the inside!  Oh, I did get the spindle take up nut drawn up ready to make and mount.  I'll post an picture when I get it done.  Ken


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## 4GSR (Sep 4, 2016)

Finally got the retainer nut made that goes on the back end of the spindle.  This is to replace the original nut removed by the person that stole the collet attachment off this lathe before I bought it.  Next is to get it mounted on the spindle.  Try to get that done tomorrow.


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## 4GSR (Sep 5, 2016)

Mounted the retainer nut on the lathe today.  Can't wait to mount a chuck on it now!


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## junk iron (Sep 11, 2016)

thanks for the help gsr


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## kspainhour (Oct 4, 2016)

Ken,
Do you know happen to know what the "shoe for dog clutch" part that is missing in your lathe looks like? It would be the part on the end of the shaft to move the gear to engage the direct drive. It is number 33 in the parts list. Part mumber 414-03-047-5002. The reason I ask is I have a similar issue. The one I have looks like it was  shop made and it doesn't work exactly right. 

Thanks,
Keith


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## 4GSR (Oct 4, 2016)

kspainhour said:


> Ken,
> Do you know happen to know what the "shoe for dog clutch" part that is missing in your lathe looks like? It would be the part on the end of the shaft to move the gear to engage the direct drive. It is number 33 in the parts list. Part mumber 414-03-047-5002. The reason I ask is I have a similar issue. The one I have looks like it was  shop made and it doesn't work exactly right.
> 
> Thanks,
> Keith


Keith,

That's the part I'm missing on my lathe, too.
As soon as I can get one drawn up and made, I'll be glad to share it with you.  Don't hold your breath!  It maybe several months before I get it done.  I have a full plate right now of work I have to get done before the first of the year.  If I have break during this time, I'll try to do something.

Ken


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## kspainhour (Oct 7, 2016)

4gsr said:


> Keith,
> 
> That's the part I'm missing on my lathe, too.
> As soon as I can get one drawn up and made, I'll be glad to share it with you.  Don't hold your breath!  It maybe several months before I get it done.  I have a full plate right now of work I have to get done before the first of the year.  If I have break during this time, I'll try to do something.
> ...



Thanks Ken, 
I may have one! I had a chance to work on the lathe this evening and I found this in the cabinet 







Looks like the previous owners made something that looks like a "c" to replace it and threw this in the cabinet with some other parts. 
It looks worn on the sides and the diameter of the pin is somewhere around .360. The hole in the shaft in this lathe measures .376. 

Take Care,
Keith


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## 4GSR (Oct 8, 2016)

That's exactly what I envision it looking like. I haven't measured the width of the groove in the gear, but I'm guessing it to be around 1/2".  The sliding gear in mine was replaced.  I have the old gear sitting here on my book shelf. The groove is in bad shape and the clutch dogs that engages the mating clutch are rounded off.  
I'm working on getting it running right now. Fixing to go out and work on the motor wiring today.  Have some wires not connected correctly.  Wire numbers are not very clear on the motor.  Motor barely runs at very low RPM before it blows the heaters on the starter. 
Thanks for posting the picture, helps a lot. Ken


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## 4GSR (Dec 15, 2016)

I've started tearing into the Rockwell last month. What a nasty mess!  Lots of cleaning and when you think you got it all, find something else that needs cleaning.  As you can see from the pictures, I've removed the clutch-brake assembly for cleaning.  Got the lower cabinet cleaned about as good as it is going to get.  Cleaned up the clutch-brake shaft assembly and found a socket head cap screw that had backed off and was bent.  Pulled it all apart, cleaned, re-assembled, added some blue Loctite to the screws and made up.


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## 4GSR (Dec 15, 2016)

After I got things assembled, couldn't figure out why there was a gap where the brake pad is supposed to bear against the angle plate.  Turns out the angle plate is not square to the brake pad.  So a little shimming here and there fixed that problem.  You can see a wear pattern on the angle plate where it has been like that ever since the lathe left the factory.  Last picture showing the drive train re-assembled.  Ken


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## 4GSR (Dec 15, 2016)

With the last few pictures showing the back gear clutch and clutch piece that came off of the spindle.
I'm looking at putting four notches on the two pieces instead of two notches.  It will require making a new clutch that gos on the spindle and modifying the gear by adding a weld build up to machine into clutch teeth.  Last thing will be making a new grooved ring that is shown on the opposite end from the clutch teeth on the gear.  This is where the dog rides in that groove and does the engaging in-out of the clutch.  Any offers on doing some tig welding?
Last, will be the making of the dog.  Ken


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## kspainhour (Dec 15, 2016)

Looking forward to seeing the repair. Thanks for posting pictures.

Take Care,
Keith


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## Silverbullet (Dec 16, 2016)

Even tho it needed work it looks like a well made LATHE. There's been a few of those near me on cl, not sure there 14" but nice looking . There's a Rockwell near me for $900.00 another for double that but doesn't look near as good. 
Lots of nice machines around me but all I can do is look . But it keeps me doing something.
Anybody on here who might like me help find a machine I'd be glad too. Being stuck inside in a hospital bed ain't like I got anything else I can do.


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## 4GSR (Jul 4, 2017)

I've been working on getting the parts needing fixing for the headstock on my 14" Rockwell lathe. Finally got someone to do the weld build up I needed for one of the parts. The welding came out decent for this rebuild. Next, had to get all the things machined, that has taken time to get done. Slowly but surely, I'm getting there. I have two more things to make for the headstock assembly as well as waiting on another bearing and oil seal. Those are last things going on the headstock which won't be an issue. Ken

Here are some pictures of the repairs and new ones made.






Here's a picture of the sliding gear with the clutch face cut on it.  Original setup had only two clutch notches to the design.  I changed it to four clutch faces.  Part of the reason for doing this is to gain more bearing face for driving the clutch without kicking out of gear.  The face angle was changed from about 10 degree to 15 degrees to give it a little bit more frictional grip to keep it from jumping out of gear.  Of course the laws of friction say the angle needs to be at least 19 degrees, well my next dovetail cutter is 30 degrees and I wasn't about to grind one for 20 degrees.








Here's my setup to mill the keyways.-Don't ask me why I took off the two piece jaws off of the master jaws. I won't tell you.







Not sure why I took this picture





Milling the keyways on the spindle-B.T.W. the Rockwell Lathe spindle on the 14" Lathe is not that hard.  Say in the 28-36 HRC range.  The tapered nose of the spindle may be in the mid to high 40's, not 58-62 HRC as seen on most lathe spindles




*Here  is the fit up of the keys to the clutch ring and spindle.  My broach man did a nice job broaching the keyways and getting them 90 degrees apart.*





*Here are the finished parts*





*A view of the clutch ring mating up to the clutch on the sliding gear*





*A top view of the parts*


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## 4GSR (Jul 9, 2017)

Was able to get a start on putting the guts back in the headstock.   Re-installed the back gear shaft assembly.  Went back easier than it did coming out.  First thing you do is install the eccentric sleeve into the headstock without the guts added.  There is a dog point set screw on the back side of the headstock that needs to go into the groove on the eccentric sleeve.  Leave it loose, adjusting this will come later.  Next, drop the bull gear assy into position and start back gear shaft into the bore of the bull gear.  To help get the shaft started, stick a short piece of rod about 2" long in the small end of the shaft, so you have a way to pick that end up to align into the bearing bore in the eccentric bushing.  
Also pay attention to the witness mark on the end of the shaft.  It needs to be on top dead center when installing, so you know where all the woodruff keys will be on top. (It's not on top dead center in my picture)  This also lines up the tapered pin hole for installing the taper pin.  Once the bull gear is in place and pinned, go to the other end and install the pinion gear on end of the shaft.  Then install the washer and bolt.



And why Rockwell didn't drill and tap the end of the shaft for easy removal, I don't know.  If anyone ever has to remove the back gear shaft assembly for any reason, I highly recommend drilling and tapping the end of the shaft for something like 3/8-16 unc thread.  If the No. 5 taper pin was ever sheared off, this is almost the only way your going to get it apart.


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## 4GSR (Nov 5, 2017)

Been a lot happen in life in the past few months, too many events to explain here.  

Since the last report, The headstock is complete and flanged up.  Here are some pictures of some of the things that took place on the headstock.  I missed taking pictures of the shifting dog I made for the back gear clutch engagement.  Just finished rebuilding the apron to the lathe. Now working on re-fitting the saddle to the bed.  Once that is done, next will be the cross slide.  It has some very bad wear from use without proper cleaning.  Maybe by January I'll have it running! Ken


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## 4GSR (Nov 5, 2017)

Here's some more pictures.  Pictures are showing the clutch half after install onto the spindle.


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## 4GSR (Nov 5, 2017)

And some more pictures.  This is the apron and saddle just pulled off of the lathe. Note all of the crud that had accumulated over the years.


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## 4GSR (Nov 5, 2017)

And some more pictures. First three pictures are the aluminum plug I made to replace the stamped out sheet metal from the factory.  I also tapped it with a pipe plug thread for later removal if needed.  Next two pictures is the handwheel pinion that I made to replace the old worn damaged one. The next two are of the apron partially assembled waiting for the handwheel pinion gear to be installed.  Last two pictures are the finished pinion gear checking runout.  It's within 0.0015" TIR.  BTW- the bore of the gear is a .438" broached hex, doone by a friend of mine. And the shaft has a hex cut on it for a close fit to the gear.  I had to index the gear until I got the best runout.  Once done, the gear is pinned in place with a tapered pin.  Last of the pictures show the new pinion gear trimmed up to look nice.


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## Silverbullet (Nov 5, 2017)

That's a full description with pictures. Very nice.


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## 4GSR (Nov 5, 2017)

Silverbullet said:


> That's a full description with pictures. Very nice.


I added a little more description to each batch of pictures to help clarify what I've done here.
Ken


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## middle.road (Dec 17, 2017)

Dang, that is one heck of a informative write up. 
I'm not even sure where best to 'click' on the Like button!
Nice job!


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## 4GSR (Dec 17, 2017)

I've been working on the Rockwell lathe every chance I get.  Here's the latest.
The apron has been put back on the lathe and done a bunch of touch up painting.  Note the counter weights on the back of the saddle holding it down while I work on getting the taper attachment ready to mount.


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## 4GSR (Dec 17, 2017)

Have the taper attachment cleaned up, painted, and assembled ready to mount.  I will say, this is one big massive taper attachment for such a small lathe.


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## jamie2 (Aug 7, 2020)

kspainhour said:


> Thanks Ken,
> I may have one! I had a chance to work on the lathe this evening and I found this in the cabinet
> 
> 
> ...


I just purchased a Rockwell 14" and the dog you pictured is worn out did you come up with a drawing that one could use to make a new part thanks James


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