# New to me 1929 wide (heavy?) 9" long bed and overhead silent drive casting trade



## mattthemuppet2 (Oct 18, 2020)

hi all,

I came across this SB wide 9 project a while ago while helping a "new to lathe work" guy set up his Clausing and last week he offered it to me for what he had in it as he has to move.

Plus sides are it was a price I could afford (more or less) at $400, everything had been cleaned, it was a 55" bed and it will be a far more capable lathe than the unmentionable (begins with At and ends with 618) I've been using for the last 5 years or so.

Down sides are that everything has been cleaned but not reassembled, it has some wear near the headstock (enough to catch a nail, haven't measured it yet), it came only with a 3 jaw chuck (no outside jaws) and no drive system. It originally shipped with an overhead silent chain drive, but I only have the main casting and nothing else (no plate or countershaft). I'll be making my own horizontal drive using some pillow block bearings, 1/2" alu plate and some poly-v pulleys.

Here's the bed




Single tumbler gear box




Apron




Carriage, compound and a weird threaded but undrilled/ slotted face plate




Headstock and tailstock


 

Cushman chuck and carriage handwheel




and the overhead drive casting










I won't be able to start putting it back together in earnest until I've finished my current project (mountainbike fork damper rebuild) as I need to get the space back in my garage and free up my current lathe.

In the meantime - what to do with the overhead drive casting? Personally I'd prefer to trade it for stuff that I need (steady rest, 4 jaw chuck, 3 jaw chuck w/outside jaws, in that order) but would it be better to put it up on eBay and then use that money to buy what I need?

Oh, serial number is 42149, which puts it as a 1929 or 1930 build.


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## Ulma Doctor (Oct 18, 2020)

Hi matt,
nice score!!!
i may have a chuck for you!
i'll check my pile.
is it 1-1/8" x 8 tpi spindle?


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## mattthemuppet2 (Oct 18, 2020)

thanks Mike! I'm super pumped - partly from happiness, partly from having to move that stuff around, it is HEAVY. 1 1/2" x 8tpi spindle - same as newer SB9s and Atlas 10" I believe. Definitely interested in what you have 

right now I have to get back to that 7/16-28 internal thread I'm trying to get right, it's not a lot of fun.


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## silverhawk (Oct 18, 2020)

It sounds like a "Junior".  The title including both "wide" and "heavy" are applicable, but not original monikers.  The serial numbers don't include the model designation.  If you don't have the gear cover with the model designation, I'd suggest going to the Grizzly site and ordering a "serial card" - basically a PDF of the ledger that recorded the "sale" of that particular lathe.  If you want an example, my serial cards were posted on a blog.

As a test, I found I could drop a heavy 10 headstock onto my Junior bed.  Unfortunately, my lathe bed (and your bed) wasn't designed for an underdrive, so I found myself building a full heavy 10.  With that process, I found my Junior will hold many Heavy 10 parts, if you get the right parts.

With the "overdrive", it's usually a countershaft that isn't set above the lathe, but usually to the side of it (e.g. immediately behind the headstock).  My junior is also an "overdrive".  I did not have the countershaft assembly, so I had to fabricate my own.  It's worked well for me, but the tensioning leaves something to be desired.  If you can, restore your current tensioning unit.

My "junior" was a 36" bed.  My list of drawbacks on it are :

Through-hole of the spindle is less than 3/4" - so you can't put a lot of the rods you might be turning through the spindle.
Swing capacity - even though it's a 9" swing, I couldn't get a full 9" out of it.  That swing has to include chuck jaws, so if you want to turn at near capacity, that is something to take into account (e.g. parting off a large diameter gets difficult to say the least).
The bed length on mine left me with about a 19" between-centers capacity.  With a 55" bed, you are SOLID on this one, as you'll have about 38" between centers.
Mine had change gears - not a gear box.
However, it has served me well.  The lack of the gear box necessitated me buying a gear set to match.  Once I started buying heavy 10 parts from later years, I found that quite a few parts are interchangeable between that and the "junior".  If you need change gears, you can probably purchase a set from a more readily available heavy 10 form.

If you have questions on assembly, we have many folks on this forum who have disassembled them and put them back together.  We can walk you through anything you need on that front.

If you still have the original "japanning" finish, keep it.  It is difficult to reproduce, and it is a solid cover.  In that case, just make sure the ways of the bed, carriage, and slides are good, and clean up or replace missing or broken parts.  We're all here for you (social distancing is natural for me).


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## silverhawk (Oct 18, 2020)

Ulma Doctor said:


> Hi matt,
> nice score!!!
> i may have a chuck for you!
> i'll check my pile.
> is it 1-1/8" x 8 tpi spindle?



I'm expecting it to be a 1 1/2"-8 - which is quite a bit easier to find a backplate for a new chuck than my 10L.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Oct 18, 2020)

found it on p.22 of this pdf from vintage machinery


			http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/18536.pdf
		


it's a 9 inch New Model Silent Chain Motor Driven Lathe  The drive set up is pretty funky - the motor and countershaft are mounted on a large plate that pivots on top of a large casting that mounts to the back of the lathe next to the headstock. 

The 3/4" spindle hole will be a big improvement over the 1/2" on my Atlas 618 as will the increased swing  I'm pretty sure it still has the original japanning finish and I have no intention of getting rid of that.

I'll certainly be picking brains on here about reassembly, that's for sure. There is some wear on the bed and base of the tailstock (haven't checked the carriage yet) but that's to be expected and I'm not particularly bothered by it. The plan is to incorporate some of the improvements I did to my Atlas, such as ball oilers or gits cups for the carriage and tailstock, way wipers for the same and a variable speed treadmill motor. Hopefully I'll be able to get a DRO on there as soon as possible as I use the one on my Atlas a great deal.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Oct 24, 2020)

Some updates:

Cleaned all the old oil and grease out of the leadscrew




and wirebrushed the paint off the rim and peg of the carriage handwheel. This isn't going to be a show queen by any stretch, but painted handwheels look the pits. Gave it a rub with Mothers and a coating of oil to stop it rusting while I'm waiting. It'll get covered in oil as soon as I start using the lathe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 

stripped, cleaned and regreased/ oiled the Cushman chuck. Seemed pretty light, with some wear at the very tips of the grooves on the back of the scroll (pinion?).







Apron worm housing and key had a bunch of wear, which allowed the worm to move back and forth in the housing and a large degree of rotation on the lead screw. Knocked out the pin, unscrewed the collar and saw the reason for the longitudinal slop - a groove worn by the collar.




Put it on the lathe (didn't trust my vise on the mill) and turned off the worn area plus a little bit extra. Reassembled the worm and measured the gap with feeler gauges to figure out the thickness of the washer I needed to make.




All the parts. Added new felt too..




Made a new leadscrew key out of O1 ground stock, that just happened to be almost exactly the right size. Fits nicely now with no slop. 

new vs. old key


 

finished up the apron. Cleaned out all the oil passages, put in new felts in those and the cross feed and rack gear shafts. Had to make a new nut for the rack gear shaft as I could find one in the collection of parts. Turned out ok, although the thread depth is a little shallow as I screwed up when boring it out (misread my drill chart). Bit ****** at myself about that, not that it really matters.




apron all together







bit of wear on the worm gear and half nuts, but not too bad, especially for a 90 year old machine.

Have to think what to do next - tail stock or carriage. I'm going to be doing Halligan's tailstock travel mod, so I might get stuck into that first. Plus I have to wait to get the compound screw+bracket and gear cover from the previous owner.


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## Tim9 (Oct 27, 2020)

Matt.... as much as I have a sweet spot for my old 618, when I got my first South Bend 9”.... man I just couldn’t believe how much more capable it was. Granted, the South Bend 9” isn’t known as the most ridgid lathe in the  machining circles. But, the move from a 618 was like night and day. I do remember that when getting my box of parts 9” workin.... that little 618 did save the day more than once.
But I think you’re going to really like that lathe. I’m also guessing a wide bed is even more ridgid than the regular 9”.
  Parts might be harder to find but I’m guessing you’re going to be just fine and really like that new lathe. Congrats !
The 1930 model was much more stylish of a lathe than the later models in my opinion.


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## silverhawk (Oct 27, 2020)

Tim9 said:


> Granted, the South Bend 9” isn’t known as the most ridgid lathe in the machining circles.
> 
> I’m also guessing a wide bed is even more ridgid than the regular 9”.
> 
> The 1930 model was much more stylish of a lathe than the later models in my opinion.



The 9/10k might be known for not being as rigid, but the wide 9/junior is a different animal. These lathes (for a 9") are the best, small lathes from South Bend. They are stout little things and will serve you well. 

joe


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## Tim9 (Oct 27, 2020)

thanks for pointing that out. I figured it was a more ridgid lathe... probably in the same class as Clausings or Senecas
Like I was saying ...it was all assumptions on my part. A lathe expert.... I am NOT.
But, I do know....compared to the 618.... even the regular 9” SB is a monster. When I first got my SB 9” model C.....I spent the first few days just seeing how deep of a cut I could do in steel. The little Atlas struggled with brass. But, still have a sweet spot for it.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Oct 27, 2020)

thanks guys! I very much have a soft spot for my 618 and it'll make a great lathe for someone when I finish putting this together, but I am starting to bounce up against its limitations. Mostly the through spindle clearance and bed length, plus the minimal tail stock ram travel, but it is a very capable lathe for its size. I can't wait to get the SB up and running though, it's going to be awesome. Silverhawk is right - these were a short(ish) run odd ball lathe before the SB9 workshop (A/B/C) came out in '34 or thereabouts. They have a "heavy" 10 (10L?) bed with a downsized head and tailstock. Bed is 7" wide compared with the 6" of the workshop (I think, don't have one to measure). Spindle height and spindle nose are the same as the later 9" lathes (1 1/2 - 8tpi, 3/4" through hole), therefore backplates from later lathes fit but the steady won't. So you can actually make a heavy 10 out of it if you found an appropriate headstock and tailstock, which is pretty crazy. 

Currently working on the tail stock, putting in oil galleries.

3/16 brake line, with the end turned down to 5/32 (longest drill I had of about the right size)



cross holes drilled, opened up to 3/16 on the flat way side and pipes pushed in



I've drill and cut oil grooves, but haven't taken a picture of that yet. Also realised while lying in bed this morning that I have somewhat painted myself into a corner as the carriage wing can extend past the front of the tailstock. So I'm going to have to make oil cups that have an angled bottom to clear the carriage


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## mattthemuppet2 (Oct 27, 2020)

bleh, not my proudest work, but it'll do. Only screwed up once - put it in the 4 jaw the wrong way round, so ended up a lot thinner than intended!

chunk of 1/2" scrap



now an oil cup! I'll make a little cap or plug later.





shot of the flat way oil grooves. 3/32 ball nose from memory, not quite full diameter depth.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Oct 29, 2020)

plodding along. Finished the tailstock oil cups yesterday, so making way wipers today. No bets on how long it will take me to lose one of those caps! 


also cut the oil grooves for the v way


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 2, 2020)

got a bit distracted from working on the tailstock. Made a couple of way wiper covers for the flat ways, looked at the V ways and decided to work on the carriage instead.

cross slide screw was bent in a couple of places and there was a ton of back and forth slop. Fixed the bends first and it's mostly ok. Any better would take a dial indicator and my hydraulic press and I want to put it back together first and see if it's an issue.

I also wanted to add a thrust bearing, because, well who wouldn't right? I had one just the right size from a scavenged bed lift motor but needed a way to get it inside a housing. The cross slide screw housing was kinda boogered up, so I turned that down some, then made a sleeve to press over it. 


Pressed it on, then bored it to depth and ID. Made the inner thrust bearing race a tight fit and the rest of the housing was bored to fit the dial. 


Modded a little ball oiler so some oil would come out the side 


Then pressed it in 


Also cut a small groove leading to the ball oiler and slightly notched the inner thrust bearing race so that the thrust bearing would get some oil 


in goes the thrust bearing 


Needed a way of locking the dial so made a small 10-24 thumb screw out of brass 


Knurling is kinda nasty, but not bad for a bump knurler on a small Atlas. The following also shows why a bigger lathe = better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






All back together 


It's pretty smooth, with a slight catch every turn probably from a slight bend somewhere.

Next up, ball oilers for the carriage.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 5, 2020)

finished up the carriage!

Drilled oil holes from the bottom and then used a 6mm endmill from the top to fit ball oilers to each wing. 


added oil grooves and very carefully filed of the wear lip. I know it doesn't fix the wear, but it will allow old oil to get out from under there more easily. 


drilled and tapped 5/16-18 holes opposite the ones for the follow rest. I'll be using those for a DRO, so these will do if I ever need to fab a follow rest. I'll fill them with a couple of set screws until needed. 


drilled and tapped a couple of holes for a DRO mounting point. Easier to do now than later. 


All put back together and tucked away until everything goes together. 


picked up the gear cover and compound screw assembly from the seller today, lathe catalogue no. is 382-R which is neat to know 


also got a steadyrest!! Saw the castings at the sellers today when I went to pick up the gear cover and compound screw assembly and managed to trade him a nice 1/2hp 3ph Dayton motor and blower for it that I got at an auction that day for $10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





and it fits perfectly. I'm so pumped! I was planning on making a steady as there's no way I could afford to buy one.


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## francist (Nov 5, 2020)

I like your counterweights.... 

-frank


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 5, 2020)

nothing but the finest dog food for my drill press  It's hard to see, but there's a Del Monte's peach can on the other side..


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## silverhawk (Nov 5, 2020)

You picked up a steady for $10? Whoa! That is AWESOME!

joe


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 6, 2020)

$10+fees and tax  I think it counts as probably the best trade I've ever made. Funny thing is that I already had the other parts (clamp, bolt+nut, hinge rod and the 3 adjustment screws) in with my large collection of bits'n'pieces, so as soon as I got it home I could put it all together. Still really pumped about that!


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 7, 2020)

tail stock way wipers done and they're Christmas themed! A real fiddle fart to make, but at least that's a job ticked off the list.


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## silverhawk (Nov 7, 2020)

That looks awesome! I often wish I could have done a lot of these modifications you are doing, but have since started assembling a heavy 10 that has all of those components already.

joe


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 7, 2020)

thanks Joe! It's slow going but easier to do this stuff now than later


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 8, 2020)

big milestone today, well it certainly feels like it after reassembling the compound countless times - the carriage is finished! Got a bunch of stuff done.

- compound screw was all seized together. Had to drill out the taper pin AND the set screw in the dial, then press the screw out of the housing. Bleh. Ground a flat on the end of the screw and used a set screw to secure the handle to the screw, plus made a brass thumb screw for the dial.



- checked the gibs. Cross slide was bent and twisted. I very carefully bent it back to straight using a jig, then filed/ sanded it until it was more or less flat. This is what it looked like after bending it straight but before I finished filing it.


Compound gib was flat but bent down at the end like a hockey stick. No way I could bend that back so I ground the edge flat with the rest, then filed down the high spots.

- Added a ball oiler to oil the cross slide ways on both sides. They're a pain to oil, so figured this would make it easier and more effective. 5/32 hole drilled through the cross slide from the tail stock side, then drilled out for the oiler. Holes were then drilled from the bottom to connect the oiler to the dovetail ways.


hmm, really should have done it from the other side! Oh well.



- drilled the cross slide nut bolt all the way through and pushed in a ball oiler. Glad I bought a pack of 20 now!



- drilled and pressed in a ball oiler for the compound. Filed holes in the side of the oiler so some of the oil would dribble out the side and run down to the dovetail ways. The rest will oil the screw/ nut.

All done!


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 9, 2020)

just realised that the carriage isn't finished as I need to make way wipers (previous owner threw them away because they were "nasty") but that'll have to wait until I've done the tail stock extension. Bit anxious about that..


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 13, 2020)

Still putting off the tailstock work, so finished the headstock instead 

Got the back gear out, cleaned out the 2 ball oilers and the gears



took the tumbler reverse apart, cleaned everything up and replaced the felts. Had to use a puller to get the stud gear off, so I could undo these two screws and remove the whole assembly.



Got rid of paint from where paint should not be as well



Pressed the spindle apart, put the spindle pulley in the spooge tank and gave everything a good clean. Very little scoring on the spindle and no obvious marks on the bearings, which is awesome. Super happy about that.



Ain't she pretty?


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## middle.road (Nov 13, 2020)

If that machine could talk, imagine the stories it could tell. . .


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## silverhawk (Nov 13, 2020)

Looking good! You are nearing the threshold of being able to fire it up and use it!

joe


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 14, 2020)

yeah, can't wait to get it up and running, this is going to be a huge step up from my Atlas. I too wonder where this has been and what it has been used for over the years. It's turned a bunch of copper, going by the chips buried in nooks and crannies, and the ways/ carriage are heavily worn, but most of the gears, the bearings and the apron seem almost new.

It'll certainly get used alot in my shop. Once it's all set up, one of the first projects will be a 6" wide riser block for my Grizzly mill. That'll be a whole lot easier on this than on my 6" Atlast!


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 14, 2020)

looking great Matt!!!
very nice improvements to the old gal


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 14, 2020)

thanks Mike, it's been an adventure! Currently figuring out how to put the gear box back together. It's a real bear and I think I might have to take it apart again. Bleh. Be glad not to have to do that again


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 14, 2020)

Dissassembled the QCGB today, remind me not to do this again in a hurry - oh wait, I have to take it apart again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Boy, what a hassle. I was tempted to leave this as is, but all the felts that I could see were solid blocks of nastiness and several other bits of the lathe had blocked oil holes and the like, so in I went.

wasn't too hard to get apart, though I forgot to line up the splined type gear on the back shaft with the key, which caused an upset. Longitudinal pin in that gear wasn't too hard to get out either. No pin in the front shaft nut.

Getting it back together though, oh boy. It was all going swimmingly until it came to getting the far left gear on the back shaft pressed on. Tried all kinds of approaches, including a brass drift (warning, these gears are surprisingly soft!). What finally worked was spacing the center sliding gear and the right hand gear apart, and then driving the shaft into the housing.

Front (lower?) shaft was a royal pain, raised a burr on the thread so had to take everything apart again, but finally got it all together.

There's a periodic binding that I think is being caused by the back left spline type gear as it no longer freely rotates on its shaft but binds once a revolution. Probably a burr or upset from pushing the key into it. I'll take it apart tomorrow again and see what's going on. At least this time will be quicker!

Little wear on the gears from what I can see




took some 320 grit wet'n'dry to the threading plate and very carefully sanded the raised part of the plate. Makes it a lot easier to read now.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 15, 2020)

Taking it apart and putting it back together the second time was much quicker and less dramatic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The rotating spline type gear had an upset from the key being smacked into it and the shaft had a burr on the side of the groove that the gear pin goes into. Cleaned those up and any damage I'd caused wanging on the gears with a brass drift. Also cleaned up the keyways and bores of both of those gears, so just getting them on the shaft was easier. Now everything rotates smoothly in all gears with no binding whatsoever. Phew!

Also cut a little oiling channel for the sliding pin on the range selector. There is an oil hole for it, but you'd have to be a contortionist to get to it. So I connected the pivot bore with the existing oil hole, so any oil that comes out of the pivot should flow down there.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 18, 2020)

what a fiddle fart this was - making a couple of standoffs for the gear cover. First one that I made out of piece of 12mm boring bar shank had a 8-32 tap broken off in it on the last step. Grr. 2nd one ended up too short and then when I made the 3rd and 4th, they didn't line up with the holes in the guard. Had to gently bend one to get it to fit. No wonder the screws that came with it were bent. 



should be easier to get on and off now though 



still need to make a suitable thumb screw for the bit that bolts to the gear box

In the middle of getting p!ssed off with all of this I took a break to polish up the labels on the gear box. That made me feel better


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 22, 2020)

got a nice FIMS #2 tool post off eBay, so cleaned and regreased it, then made a bolt and T-nut for it. I think it'll be a real nice, solid tool post to use. Now I have to make some holders for it... 

checking for fit



t-nut



in place


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 25, 2020)

got the banjo together, made an oiler tube for the gearbox input shaft and made a small spring  out of a hacksaw blade for the ball detent.


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## silverhawk (Nov 26, 2020)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> got the banjo together, made an oiler tube for the gearbox input shaft and made a small spring out of a hacksaw blade for the ball detent.
> View attachment 345329


Will that fit under the gear cover?

joe


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 26, 2020)

there's a cut out for the oil pipe in the gear cover, you can just about see it next to the gear box in this pic (not my lathe )


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## silverhawk (Nov 26, 2020)

That thing is gorgeous!

joe


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 26, 2020)

it sure is! Way prettier than mine will be


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## vin (Nov 26, 2020)

Love the restoration. New here and wish i discovered this forum a long time ago.   Sadly i recenly had to help a old friend dispose of all his 9 and 10 SBs plus a ton of other machines.  I made a serious  mistake  of offering them on a rather snooty venue with poor results.  In hindsight i shoulda gone and got them all and tried another (and last) resto. This is the running one he had. the others possibly 4 plus parts).    Woulda coulda shoulda


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## silverhawk (Nov 26, 2020)

Matt, are you going to paint the yellow pinstripes on yours?

joe


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 26, 2020)

vin said:


> Love the restoration. New here and wish i discovered this forum a long time ago.   Sadly i recenly had to help a old friend dispose of all his 9 and 10 SBs plus a ton of other machines.  I made a serious  mistake  of offering them on a rather snooty venue with poor results.  In hindsight i shoulda gone and got them all and tried another (and last) resto. This is the running one he had. the others possibly 4 plus parts).    Woulda coulda shoulda



yeah, that's rough. I was both lucky and the recipient of karma with this one - lucky in that the PO needed to move and didn't want to keep it, karmic in that I only knew the guy because I answered a post on here needing some help setting up a lathe (the one he's keeping, a really nice Clausing).



silverhawk said:


> Matt, are you going to paint the yellow pinstripes on yours?
> 
> joe



hells no. I'm even debating whether or not to paint the steady rest to match the rest of the lathe. I've no objection to painting machines but a) the paint on this is way tougher than anything I could do and b) I'm too keen to actually use it  Plus I tried the machine painting thing with my Atlas and have had a 1/2 grey, 1/2 blue lathe working perfectly well for the last 5 years!


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## silverhawk (Nov 26, 2020)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> I'm even debating whether or not to paint the steady rest to match the rest of the lathe. I've no objection to painting machines but a) the paint on this is way tougher than anything I could do and b) I'm too keen to actually use it  Plus I tried the machine painting thing with my Atlas and have had a 1/2 grey, 1/2 blue lathe working perfectly well for the last 5 years!



The original finish isn't really a paint.  It's called "Japanning", which is a lacquer-style "varnish".  It is thick, and one of the most durable finishes you can get.  If you still have that, keep it.  I didn't have it on a few parts, so I had to paint.  The paint has bumped off already, while the areas of japanning (still in heavily used areas) is properly protected.  If the steady is a different color, it likely does not have the same finish, and you can always paint it to match when the paint starts to wear.

Zora Duntov, one of the designers of the Chevrolet Corvette, said "trailers are for horses, Corvettes were made to be driven."  Your lathe was meant to work, so using it and not turning it into a museum piece would make the original producers more proud.


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## vin (Nov 27, 2020)

silverhawk said:


> The original finish isn't really a paint.  It's called "Japanning", which is a lacquer-style "varnish".  It is thick, and one of the most durable finishes you can get.  If you still have that, keep it.  I didn't have it on a few parts, so I had to paint.  The paint has bumped off already, while the areas of japanning (still in heavily used areas) is properly protected.  If the steady is a different color, it likely does not have the same finish, and you can always paint it to match when the paint starts to wear.
> 
> Zora Duntov, one of the designers of the Chevrolet Corvette, said "trailers are for horses, Corvettes were made to be driven."  Your lathe was meant to work, so using it and not turning it into a museum piece would make the original producers more proud.


I have restored several lathes and other machines. Some were sold to fund better ones and some were kept. Those that were kept have been heavily used like this old M6.   I thought about adding embelishment but just keeping it running and true was enough.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 27, 2020)

yes, it definitely still has its original japanning and some previous owner in the last 90 years put a thick layer of black paint over that as well. I think the brass and silver accents will make it look good enough as it is and it'll never be a show pony, it even has Atlas lathe feet  This is going to be used hard and well, really looking forward to it. I've used the snot out of my Atlas 618 over the last 5 years or so, probably way beyond it's design intent, and intend to do the same with this one! Going to have to get a DRO for it though, adding one to the Atlas made it a lot easier to use.


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## Shootymacshootface (Nov 27, 2020)

Nice project Matt. That should be a very capable lathe.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 27, 2020)

thanks, I'm really looking forward to using it!

Made a single way wiper this afternoon, hopefully the next 3 will be quicker  Pics when I've finished.


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 29, 2020)

I have read that the Japanning finish can be reproduced by dissolving vinyl records in lacquer thinner. The resultant fluid can be painted onto uncoated or poorly coated surfaces


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 29, 2020)

I might be able to get away with that in San Antonio, but I wouldn't dare try in Austin, I'd get run straight out of town 

Finished up the remaining way wipers. Hope I don't have to do that again, what a pain. Made even worse by one of them spanging off my face shield and disappearing into my garage for a couple of hours!

Made a little photo documentary of how I make them.

First make a paper template



Cut it out and use a template of the final shape (end of the carriage essentially) to trim to rough shape



Bend the sides. I used a 1/4" lathe bit to allow the 2nd side to fold over in my vise. Use a piece of wood and a mallet/ hammer to do the bending.



Next, find a round thing that has about the radius of the top of the wiper cover. Then tap the top part of the cover round over it and smoosh it into the rest of the cover





Do three more





looks a bit like the logo of Aphex Twin (look up Windowlicker on youtube)



Then file the top to merge the displaced metal into the top and sides, trim the bottom, file the back so that it's flat (I cut off the excess with a dremel first, which is how no. 4 went flying), drill and countersink the hole and file to fit the way. After many hours of misery you get:





they aren't perfect, but they'll do and I sure as shinola don't want to do this again!


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## mattthemuppet2 (Mar 10, 2021)

alright, getting back to it. A big thanks to UlmaDoc for the loan of the 1/2-10LH acme tap and the gift of the 1/2-10LH acme threaded rod - made my life _considerably _easier!

This is all part of extending the tailstock quill travel by an inch and a bit (Halligan's workshop or something on Youtube has a 3 part series on this). The mod consists of three parts - an extended nut, an extended screw and a barrel extension that moves the rear screw support back by the same amount.

Made the nut out of 7/8" 932 bearing bronze




finished the extended tailstock screw. Made it in two parts - the handle end and (cheating) 1/2-10LH acme threaded rod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The end was supposed to be 0.2" longer but for some reason I totally screwed up the overall length.


Overshot the end of the threaded rod by 1/2 thou, so it ended up being a light press fit into the handle end. Added some JB weld to make sure, but if that isn't enough I'll cross pin it.


and compared to the old screw (kept for posterity's sake)


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## Glenn Brooks (Mar 11, 2021)

silverhawk said:


> The original finish isn't really a paint.  It's called "Japanning", which is a lacquer-style "varnish".  It is thick, and one of the most durable finishes you can get.  If you still have that, keep it.  I didn't have it on a few parts, so I had to paint.  The paint has bumped off already, while the areas of japanning (still in heavily used areas) is properly protected.  If the steady is a different color, it likely does not have the same finish, and you can always paint it to match when the paint starts to wear.


Interestingly there have been several styles of “Japanning” over the years. Lacquer was a very popular form of Japanning  for European made wood furniture in the 1880’s.  It supposedly originated in Paris by French furniture makers to duplicate Japanese furniture finishes when oriental design became fashionable (but expensively unobtainable) in Europe.

However around 1900 and afterwards, machine tools used Gilsonite, a bituminous mineral, called  Asphaultum, as the Japanning finish, not lacquer. Gilsonite is still mined today in Utah and Iran. It is formulated with equal parts boiled Lindseed oil and two parts turpentine,  then  heated and mixed to create a liquid, then sprayed on the surface in several coats, and baked at around 450 degrees F, until the liquid crystallized and dried. It forms a very tough, impervious surface. Hence you will see little to no rusting or oxidation on Gilsonite covered surfaces.  Gilsonite is usually black on SB lathes, as the factory also added lamp black (carbon) to formulation, to give it the ever popular japanning black color.

One easy way to test for Asphaltum is to dab a bit of Acetone to the surface and rub it in with a cotton swab.If Gilsonite, the acetone will slowly dissolve the finish and make a slurry, which you can spread and use to repair little dings in the finish. When it dries, it will recrystalize  and look indistinguishable from the rest of the surface.  If lacquer, the acetone will thin and remove the finish, much like removing varnish.

My bet is your SB is actually Gilsonite finished. My SB is a 1925 model, has the original finish and seems to be Gilsonite.

BTW, Ford used the same asphaltum finish on all their early day Model A and Model T undercarriages. I’ve heard that some car manufacturers continued to use it well past WWII into the 50’s and 60’s.

It’s still mined In Utah where  you can buy small quantities on line from the company store, or in industrial quantities from Gilsonite Company headquartered in Turkey and Iran.

Glenn


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## mattthemuppet2 (Mar 11, 2021)

that's super cool, thanks for the info Glenn. This lathe was originally black and then some previous owner also spray painted it black over the top for some reason. I've had to clean back some of that over spray, but the original finish is still largely intact almost everywhere I've looked. It's funny to be in possession of something so old with its own largely unknown history.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Mar 13, 2021)

roughed in the extension tube. Couldn't thread it as I'm having problems with the halfnuts jamming up on my current lathe. I'll finish this off when the SB is back together.


bored a recess in the tailstock nut/ screw holder for a thrust bearing. The new screw has a little extra length for one at the other end, but that'll have to wait for the extension tube to be finished.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Mar 14, 2021)

pushing the limits of my little 4x6 bandsaw. Had to take one of my bikes off the wall so it could fit!



motor mount and countershaft in waiting. Got the pillow blocks ages ago from an estate sale for $1 and the plate was some piece of scientific equipment that my college scrapped.



countershaft pulleys in waiting  These will have to wait until the SB is running. I'll use an old treadmill pulley to get started.



It's going to be a bit of jigsaw puzzle putting it all together. The motor will be screwed to the bit of plate that I cut off and that will attach to the main plate with a couple of bolts running in slots to allow for belt adjustment. The treadmill motor drive will be in a sealed case on the front, at the bottom of the plate.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Mar 20, 2021)

trundling along - finished the countershaft and temporary pulley. The large diameter part of that hub was the last piece of the trailer axle roadside find that I used for the tailstock extension tube 





and finished the motor plate this morning using the bit cut off the bigger plate



to finish that all up I'll need to take the countershaft back off and cut two slots for the screws sticking out of the motor plate. That'll allow me to adjust the tension of the motor>countershaft belt from the front.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Mar 22, 2021)

milled the adjusting slots for the motor plate and a recess for the tach pickup


drilled and tapped the holes to mount the motor drive. This is what it'll look like assembled:




need to make a cover for the motor drive, drill and tap holes for the hinges and design/ make a tensioning lever set up.


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 22, 2021)

looking damn fine there Matt


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## mattthemuppet2 (Mar 23, 2021)

thanks Mike! Moving along, slowly but surely


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## mattthemuppet2 (Mar 29, 2021)

trundling along..

Currently making the belt tensioner, working from the motor/ countershaft plate back towards the headstock. I have everything lined up on my bench so I can more or less eyeball where things need to go. The tensioner will attach to the top right of where the right most countershaft bearing is and to the bull gear cover on the headstock.

Finished up the turnbuckle-esque thing that will allow me to adjust belt tension. Came out just as I hoped it would





the pin allows the hex shaped piece to rotate in place but stops it from pulling out.

Current progress. Threaded rod will be loctited into the hex piece once I've figured out how long the threaded rod needs to be.



Next up is the handle..


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## mattthemuppet2 (Apr 2, 2021)

handle is done. First attempt at offset turning with the tailstock. Came out ok, though the finish was crappy in places (hence the polish job).







next up is the bracket to mount it to the headstock (what the bushing on the left will be pressed into)


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## mattthemuppet2 (Apr 24, 2021)

a very VERY big thanks to George Bulliss for his help with this - it would have been considerably harder without the help file and sketch.

Got the treadmill motor running with an MC2100 drive and Arduino a few moments ago, super pumped about that. This is the motor that was on my Atlas 618 and it will be going on my new to me South Bend wide 9. I know that the MC60 drive that's on my lathe and mill can't give this motor the beans it needs, which isn't a big deal on the Atlas (can't use those beans) but probably will be on the SB. The MC60 is a piece of cake to wire up and just needs some switches and a speed pot. The MC2100 is much more powerful but needs a digital PWM (pulse width modulation) signal to change speed. You can (maybe) use a doodad off Amazon, you can also buy a very reasonably priced PIC based board of our own Maxheadroom or you can use an Arduino to generate the signal based on an analog pot input.

I chose the latter because I'm cheap, stubborn and wanted to learn something new. All of which played out in this  The sketch (code or program in Arduino speak) is based off of the one here https://sonsofinvention.wordpress.c...100-controller-and-lathe-tachometer/#more-389, but is a more stripped down version that George made or found.

Spent a bunch of time banging my head and grinding my teeth until I figured out what to do to compile the sketch, then it didn't work. Spent some more time banging my head and grinding my teeth until I realised the sketch and the wiring diagram differed in the switch pin. Changed that and it all worked! I set the max PWM at 950/1023 (94% of max motor speed) because over that the drive would shut down.

SUPER HAPPY!


looks like a mess because it is  Next I need to see if I can power the tach off of the MC2100 board (which is powering the Arduino) and once that is done start packaging it into the drive box to go above the headstock. I realised it can't go on the motor plate as I need a reverse switch on the motor leads, so it has to all go in one box rather than a control box on the headstock and a drive box on the motor plate. WOOHOO!


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## mattthemuppet2 (Apr 29, 2021)

alright, drive is (mostly) complete, phew!

Control box made and stuck up on top of the headstock. It's bigger than I would have wanted but back gear handle and other stuff is still accessible.





and the finished belt tensioning lever, works a charm



some behind the scenes shots - inside the control box





the mount for the control box - cut with the boring head to match the curvature of the back gear cover, then fastened through the cover (see pic of countersinking set up!)







forward/ reverse doesn't work the way I've done it elsewhere as breaking the connection between the drive and the motor causes the drive to shut down. A fancy fix would be to use relays controlled by the arduino, but in the meantime I'll add back the switch to turn the arduino on and off. A bit more of a hassle - turn off arduino, change motor direction, turn on arduino - but alot easier to implement!


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## mattthemuppet2 (May 8, 2021)

alright, all finished.

Changed the sketch to reduce the lag in turning the speed dial and to set up a switch into the arduino so that on/ closed = PWM to drive and off/ open = no PWM. Now I can turn that switch off, reverse motor direction and switch it back on and the motor will resume at its previous speed, only in the other direction. There's a degree of motor speed ramp up so it won't be a plug reverse. Dial is nice and responsive now too.

Added a 100k pot (instead of an 18k I had lying around) which gets rid of the dead zone at the low end of motor speed where turning the dial from zero has no effect. Much better now.

Removed the spindle gear and countersunk a hole for the tach magnet, then cut out space on the gear train cover so that it would all fit.

Added a 10j poly-V belt and got the spindle all snugged up.




Also added a couple of oilers to the top of the gear box so I wouldn't have to contort myself to oil the gears in there




now I need to reinforce my work bench top and then I can get on with installing the DRO


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## mattthemuppet2 (May 13, 2021)

Reinforced the work bench and have hit a bit of a milestone - got the bed on the bench! Boy this thing is heavy. Cleaned the ways and stoned down the odd burr, then cleaned the rack, which was tedious and unpleasant.


next up is fitting the DRO


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## mattthemuppet2 (May 21, 2021)

alright, DRO is done! What a faff that was, more drilling, tapping and head scratching than I care to remember.

Had to cut the cross slide scale due to some mixed up communication, but that went fine with an angle grinder and a thin cut off disk. Tapping 4 2-56 holes in the end was a pain


the cross slide was the biggest pain. Had to countersink the way cover so I could screw it to the cross slide (had these weird "pins" before), then attach an arm to hold the read head out behind the lathe. Scale is bolted directly to the piece that attaches to the saddle plus a 3/8x3/4" bar that is also attached to that piece. It's pretty sturdy.

Finished it off with a cover for the bottom and a piece of treadmill belt to cover the slot at the top




Carriage scale was alot less of a pain, with a block that bolts to the saddle piece and a plate that connects that to the read head. I used 2 5/16" thick pieces of alu at each end of the scale to attach it to the bed as the side of the bed had a 1deg or so slope off vertical.


whole thing


readout


It's nothing fancy, but it'll serve my purposes just fine. Cost $220 for a 0.005mm res carriage scale, 0.001mm res slim cross slide scale, the readout and delivery. I'll be getting a 3 axis one for my mill when I've saved up the funds.


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## mattthemuppet2 (May 29, 2021)

pretty much done, only need to make a bunch of tool holders to start using it

all put together



back splash made



in action



apart from some ringing from a wee bit of interference between the spindle gear and gear cover, this thing is quiet.

Everything works as it should, all the feeds and the like. Looking forward to using it, I have a looong list of projects waiting


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## Ulma Doctor (May 30, 2021)

well done Matt!!!!


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## mattthemuppet2 (May 30, 2021)

thanks Mike, I appreciate all the help you've given me. Once I get some toolholders made I'll be able to finish that tailstock extension and put it all together


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