# New Pm-935 Coming Soon!



## Ken226 (Jan 6, 2017)

After researching milling machines for awhile, and due in no small part to the reviews posted here I put a deposit down on a new PM-935 mill from Matt's next shipment.

Matt was very helpful and courteous, and did his best to convince me that the PM-935 was the way to go, as opposed to the Jet of similar size I had in mind.

Any advice from owners of this machine is welcome. How's the rigidity compared to the machine I sold to finance this one (a KBC 7x31, same as the grizzly G0730)?

Is it safe to lift using the lifting eye or should I use a cargo straps under the ram?


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## Stonebriar (Jan 6, 2017)

the lifting eye is safe to lift with, but it will be front heavy wanting to lean forward. Congratulations on the purchase of a great machine. I love mine.

Rick


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## MonkMan (Jan 7, 2017)

Great call. It comes well pack in a large crate. Have some friends around to help.


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## Alan H. (Jan 7, 2017)

Keep the head tucked down and lift from the front with a couple of tag lines to control the tilt.


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## Ken226 (Jan 7, 2017)

Thanks for the advice, will do!

Only 6-11 weeks to wait. I'll have to rent a flatbed trailer to back it into the shop. My enclosed trailer won't clear the 7' rollup door and the hoist casters will sink into the gravel drive if I try to lift it outside.


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## dieselshadow (Jan 7, 2017)

Congrats Ken. 
	

		
			
		

		
	





	

		
			
		

		
	
 I'm officially jealous... 
	

		
			
		

		
	







Now comes the hard part.


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## xplodee (Jan 7, 2017)

I got the pulley driven model and added a Teco VFD.  Really love this machine!




	

		
			
		

		
	
Untitled by Tim Marks, on Flickr


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## Ken226 (Jan 8, 2017)

I ordered the single phase step pulley version. I'd considered getting a 3phase version and adding a VFD but changing speeds via the step pulleys seems easy enough that I'll hold out for awhile.

I decided that if/when I decide to go variable speed, I wanna go with a DC shunt motor and use a closed loop speed controller.  For now, I'll stick with the step pulleys

This will make a perfect edition to my shop. The color is a close match to my Birmingham 1340 lathe and G0704 CNC mill.

You guys are making the wait even harder with those pics. Those things sure are pretty.  Monkman, that's the same engine hoist I have. Good to know it'll lift the mill.

Do you find the height of the mill to be about right. Some seem to be fabbing bases to get it a little taller?


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## tmarks11 (Jan 8, 2017)

Really nice job on the control box.

Can you show some close ups of how you mounted it?  

Where and how did you mount the sensor for the tachometer?


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## Rich V (Jan 8, 2017)

Stonebriar said:


> the lifting eye is safe to lift with, but it will be front heavy wanting to lean forward. Congratulations on the purchase of a great machine. I love mine.
> 
> Rick


When I lifted my PM935 I moved the table as close to the back as possible and pulled the ram out to the max forward position. When I lifted by the eye hook it was almost perfectly balanced.


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## xplodee (Jan 8, 2017)

tmarks11 said:


> Really nice job on the control box.
> 
> Can you show some close ups of how you mounted it?
> 
> Where and how did you mount the sensor for the tachometer?



Thank you! 

It's mounted using a piece of aluminum angle bracket from lowes and some steel cylinders I machined on my lathe. Bolted into the original M6 tapped holes where the stock forward/reverse drum switch mounts. 

I've thought a lot about where to mount the tach and have decided to mount it below the quill so that it will pull direct from the bottom of the spindle. This way I don't have to worry about hitting it while tightening the draw bar. It's important that the tach be grabbing the actual RPM and not pulling off of a pulley. 

I am going to re-wire the internals to make use of some DIN mounted parts and to add internal power supplies. The VFD I bought did not come with a 12v rail like I thought it would so I have to add that to my system, also PM's DRO system uses a huge 5v power supply which I will remove and replace with a DIN mounted unit. All of this equipment is mounted within the milling machine's column.

For those buying new machines or considering how to outfit theirs: I would NEVER buy a manually operated mill without a VFD and tachometer. The benefits are endless. It is as necessary as a DRO in my opinion. It is also considerably cheaper than adding a DRO. Figure $500 all in including all the buttons, enclosures and wiring. 




	

		
			
		

		
	
Untitled by Tim Marks, on Flickr





	

		
			
		

		
	
Untitled by Tim Marks, on Flickr


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## tmarks11 (Jan 8, 2017)

xplodee said:


> I've thought a lot about where to mount the tach and have decided to mount it below the quill so that it will pull direct from the bottom of the spindle. This way I don't have to worry about hitting it while tightening the draw bar. It's important that the tach be grabbing the actual RPM and not pulling off of a pulley.


I have been trying to figure out the best place to mount the tach sensor as well.  Please post what you end up with so I can copy it.  

btw, my name is Tim Marks as well, and I also have a PM935.  some coincidence.


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## xplodee (Jan 8, 2017)

tmarks11 said:


> I
> btw, my name is Tim Marks as well, and I also have a PM935.  some coincidence.



Now that is WEIRD! haha. I'll post what I end up with. Did you go with a Tachulator kit for the tachometer? It's $60 but I like the fact that it automatically calculates the SFM once you input the end mill diameter. Very useful!


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## tmarks11 (Jan 8, 2017)

No, I just went for a cheap $10 LED tach from eBay.


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## Kiwi Canuck (Jan 8, 2017)

Xplodee, can you post the info on your build of the control box as I like the look of that set-up.

If possible links to the supplier of that box and tach, also who did the graphics?

Thank you.

David


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## xplodee (Jan 8, 2017)

Hi David-

I'm using a "3-wire" control technique off of the Teco VFD. This means two momentary switches for start and stop plus another continuous switch for FWD/RVS. 

All the buttons and the potentiometer are purchased from factorymation.com, 30mm series. Not the cheapest out there but they work really well. I will be adding an LED light on top of the box to let me know when power is on. The box came from McMaster for $25 and I milled it out using my Haas VF1. A knife switch turns the 220v single-phase on for the VFD and also powers a relay which closes the 110v circuit.

The plate on top of the box is 1/8" clear acrylic with one side painted white, then CNC machined for the holes and engraving. I then paint the engraving in black. All of the paint is on the backside of the plate so it will never get damaged and will always look great.

The tachometer is from here: http://mkctools.com/tachulator.htm I installed it into my control box behind the plate. This is the second time I've done a setup like this. The first was for my 1942 South Bend Heavy 10 lathe. There is a 12-conductor wire that goes from the VFD inside the mill's column to the control box. This is used for 12v to power the LED and Tachulator inside the control box. The rest of the conductors are part of the on/off, fwd/rvs and speed control. It can be confusing reading the instructions for a VFD but trust me, all of the info you need is in there, you just have to take notes and find it. They are VERY powerful devices considering their cost.


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## Ken226 (Apr 2, 2017)

I got the email last week informing me that the machines have arrived in PA, and that mine will be shipping any day now.

I'm really looking forward to it. Time to start designing a base to set it on. I'm 6'1, so it may be a little short as is.


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## wrmiller (Apr 2, 2017)

I'm a bit over 6'2" and we lifted my mill almost 6". Here's a few early pics of mine to tide you over...  



















Of course we will require copious amounts of pics when you get yours...


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## Ken226 (Apr 2, 2017)

That thing is so pretty

I love that shiny blue n chrome logo plate on the belt cover!   Wise styling decisions by PM. I bet he's won over at least a few customers on aesthetics alone.


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## rewilfert (Apr 18, 2017)

xplodee said:


> Thank you!
> 
> It's mounted using a piece of aluminum angle bracket from lowes and some steel cylinders I machined on my lathe. Bolted into the original M6 tapped holes where the stock forward/reverse drum switch mounts.
> 
> ...




What model Teco VFD are you using for this setup?


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## xplodee (Apr 18, 2017)

I've used the JNEV and the newer L510 model. Personally I thought the JNEV had more useful features but depending on what you're doing both will work well. This mill was setup using the L510.


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## Ken226 (Apr 19, 2017)

It has been shipped.  Projected delivery date is 4/26!


Won't be long now.


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## ACHiPo (Apr 19, 2017)

Looks very nice!  The longer I hang out here, the bigger mill I think I need!


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## wrmiller (Apr 19, 2017)

ACHiPo said:


> Looks very nice!  The longer I hang out here, the bigger mill I think I need!



Yea, this place will do that...


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## Ken226 (Apr 29, 2017)

It's here!  

 The driver backed up to my shop overhead door, put the crate on the lift gate, lowered it to about an inch off the ground, then backed the left gate and crate right into the shop. 

He wheeled it off the lift gate with the pallet jack, and set the crate right next to its new permanent 'spot'.

I spend a few hours making s base for it, lifting it 7".   I know the wood base looks a little sketchy on the outside, but on the inside it's not.  The 4 corners have thick hardwood pads on the inside that the machine sits on, transferring the load directly into the concrete and spreading it over 100 square inches of concrete.







Here it is level  and on the floor. 











Now I'm shopping for a vise. I'm kinda leaning toward a Glacern, but not sure if I want a 5 inch or a 6 inch. 

Anyone have pics of either size? How much does a 6" hang over the back of the table?


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## wrmiller (Apr 29, 2017)

Pretty base. Not knowing much about wood, I wonder how it will hold up over the years?


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## Ken226 (Apr 29, 2017)

Curious about that myself. I'll put a level on it periodically and monitor the compression in the wood.

Or if you mean aestically, holding up to oil, etc, I polyurethaned the hell out of it.


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## wrmiller (May 1, 2017)

Both actually.


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## BFHammer (May 1, 2017)

Ken,
Machine and base look great!  I went with a 5" Glacern for my PM-932 based on recommendations and pictures here.  
Check for DarkZero's thread on his mill - if I recall he has some good pictures of the 5".  Unfortunately I have my vice but still awaiting the arrival of my mill which should be here toward the end of the month. 
Mark


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## Rich V (May 1, 2017)

I opted for the 6in Glacern on my PM935 and don't regret it. I lose maybe 1 inch on overhang on the column side but having a bigger work envelope is priceless.
If you have a DRO scale mounted on the back of the bed you lose almost nothing.


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## bss1 (May 1, 2017)

+1 on the recommendation for the 6" vise. Here are a few stats that may help with your decision.  

According to Glacern's website, the distance from the clamping ears to the back of the vise is the same for both the 5" and 6" versions. Therefore, you shouldn't gain or lose any more travel toward the column with the smaller 5" vise.  However, you will loose a significant amount of capacity with the 5" vs the 6" vise. The 5", per their specs, only has a jaw opening capacity of 5" vs 8.95" on the 6" vise.  If their specs are correct, that's a significant difference. 

I am not sure if the vise jaws and accessories are the same for a Glacern as they are for a Kurt, but if so, there will be a world more of new and used accessories available for the 6" vise vs the 5". 

I have a 6" Kurt and have used the 8"+ of jaw opening capacity on numerous occasions.


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## Ken226 (May 1, 2017)

Lots of good advice and info here.  I just ordered a 5" Gacern, before seeing the last couple posts here.

That's ok though, I'll lose a little capacity, gain a little table space. I guess everything is a win/lose proportion battle.

I love how quiet it runs, the head and motor are very smooth.  This motor is way quieter than my lathe motor.


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## Alan H. (May 1, 2017)

Ken, I studied the Glacerns to death before I ordered one for my 935.  I chose the 5".

The 6" vise body hangs over the front of the table by 3 additional inches as compared to the 5".  Since the 935 is not a full size mill, this hangover tends to cover the Y axis crank.  The 2/3 size 935 mill is also a bit low so that overhang over the crank can be even more problematic.   

Here are snippets of the clamping sizes for the 5" and the 6".  As Brad points out the 6" is about ~4+" on average bigger in all configurations.   If I had bought a bigger mill, I would have gone with the bigger vice but the 935 is less than a full size machine and that overhang was the deal breaker for me.


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## Ken226 (May 2, 2017)

My Glacern will be here Thursday. The first project on this machine will be a Remington 700 Action Fixture

Like this:


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## bss1 (May 2, 2017)

I should have clarified that I have a Millrite which is not an apples to apples comparison.  It is a similar type of machine if not a little smaller. The 6" vise does indeed hang over the front side, but on the Millrite, this hangover is of no consequence.  The bottom of the vise is on the same plane as the top of the table. None of the handles on the front of the Millrite are engineered whereas the handles extend above the table top level, so there is no problem.  I even currently have my vise offset to the left side of the table. As a matter of fact there is several inches of clearance as seen in the attached pic. 






With the ram on the Millrite, I can get to the outer reaches of the vise with no problem, or flip the part around to work closer to the fixed jaw side if so desired. 

I agree if PM's handles would tangle with the bottom of the vise then the smaller model would be the best choice. I guess I just assumed the clearances would be similar. Sorry for the lack of upfront clarification on my specific machine.  Good luck with the PM. It's a sweet looking machine. I have been considering upgrading to one to go with my PM1340. 

Brad
.


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## mksj (May 2, 2017)

Even on a full size knee the handles will tangle, the only way around that is to get a speed handle. You can also play with the ram travel by extending it further out. One needs to look at the width of the table and also at the travel of the Y axis, and if you can use the usable clamping range of the vise. Since the 935 and full size knees have 12" of Y travel, I would recommend a 6" wide vise, most have a maximum clamping range of ~8-9 inches. Having an extra 1" in the width of the jaws goes a long way to holding longer stock more securely.  Since the 6" vise is one of the most common sizes, it gives you a wider opportunity for jaws, parallels, etc. that fit this size.  I would think a longer overhang is more beneficial, since the handle is less likely to hit the knee. If you want something with a shorter overhang, then maybe look at a 6" CNC.


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## Alan H. (May 2, 2017)

Certainly agree on the accessories aspect of a 6 vs a 5.  For example, there is not a speed handle available that I have found that fits the 5" Glacern.  So the option is to make one if you want one.  So that is on my list of 100's of things to do.  I know a gent that considered getting a batch made and selling them but I don't think he's pulled the trigger yet.  

Parallels are another challenge but at least Tormach sells some of those.


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## wrmiller (May 2, 2017)

There was someone here (Darkzero?) selling aluminum speed handles for 5" vices. I bought two for my 5" Kurt.


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## Alan H. (May 2, 2017)

Bill, those are long gone. I asked Will several months ago and he had none left. Maybe I'll get a batch made?


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## wrmiller (May 3, 2017)

Well darn, that's too bad. Given the popularity of the 5" vise with the hobby machinist crowd, I would think someone with a CNC would be doing them.


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## Lonnie (May 3, 2017)

There's a guy on eBay selling speed handles. If your vise has a 3/4" hex these should work.   Speed Handle


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## wrmiller (May 3, 2017)

IIRC, 5" vises have 5/8" handle shafts.


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## Lonnie (May 3, 2017)

You are correct. 
Funny you can fairly easily find handles for 3/4" and not 5/8". Seems to me that there are quite a few 5" vises being used.


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## Ken226 (May 4, 2017)

Seems like there's a market for aluminum 5/8 speed handles.  I don't see any reason one couldn't make them with a manual mill, granted milling that hex would be a PITA.

I have a CNC and am quite good with CAD/CAM, it wouldn't be much trouble to design something in CAD and process some g-code programs.  

I'm wondering what a 6061 5/8 speed handles would sell for?  I'm not set up for anodizing, but can definitely leave them in the white, or use molycoat/cerakote.

Without doing any math, i'd think an aluminum 5/8 socket not able to handle the torque  being used for a vice handle. 

Guys that have them, is this not an issue?


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## fradish (May 4, 2017)

In terms of a homemade speed handle, what if you just bored a hole that would make 
a nice tight press-fit with a 5/8" socket?  Maybe even heating the bar and cooling the socket?  
It's possible it might slip though.  Not speaking from personal experience, just a "what if?"

Otherwise I have seen people create hex holes manually by drilling out the 6 corners
with a small drill, drilling out the center to remove most of the material and then
straightening out the sides with a file.  I haven't tried this myself, but it could make for
a nice afternoon or weekend project.  You could probably trace around a 5/8" nut to get
the rough layout lines...


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## Ken226 (May 4, 2017)

I wasn't thinking in terms of making a homemade speed handle for myself, I was thinking more about making a short run to put on eBay, to gauge interest.

I'll model something in CAD and post up a rendering for critique shortly.


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## fradish (May 4, 2017)

Sorry Ken, I wasn't specifically responding to your post.  I think it was Alan H who was looking
for one?

I was just saying it didn't seem like a speed handle would be that hard to do manually.  I think you
could make one without too much trouble with a drill press and a file...


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## Ken226 (May 4, 2017)

No prob, sometimes the nuances of speech are lost in text.

Heres a 5/8 speed handle I modeled in cad.  6" long, 1.25 wide and .75 deep.  I think I got a couple pieces of stock the right size to make one.  Ill turn the handle on the lathe and use a shoulder screw to mount it.


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## Ken226 (May 5, 2017)

Here's a version 2.0.  I changed the dimensions to allow the use of more common 1 x 5/8 aluminum stock, and to be more manual mill friendly.  Also rendered in a lighter color, the last image was too dark.

Every operation on this one can be done on a manual mill / rotary table, including the chamfers, albeit with a lot of math and setup involved.

I'll see about prototyping one Monday. I may have some stock in that size laying around.


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## xplodee (May 7, 2017)

I have my 6" D688 Kurt setup with my ram in such a position that I can mill against the fixed jaw or ALL THE WAY at the end of the fully open moveable jaw by moving the Y axis across its full travel.

Considering this fact, I think it's pretty conclusive that there is ZERO reason to purchase a 5" vise for these machines. I know some people don't want to hear that, but it's true.


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## bss1 (May 7, 2017)

xplodee said:


> I have my 6" D688 Kurt setup with my ram in such a position that I can mill against the fixed jaw or ALL THE WAY at the end of the fully open moveable jaw by moving the Y axis across its full travel.
> 
> Considering this fact, I think it's pretty conclusive that there is ZERO reason to purchase a 5" vise for these machines.



Agreed for this size machine in general. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## scwhite (May 7, 2017)

wrmiller said:


> I'm a bit over 6'2" and we lifted my mill almost 6". Here's a few early pics of mine to tide you over...
> 
> View attachment 230376
> 
> ...


Good looking machine


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## scwhite (May 7, 2017)

Ken226 said:


> It's here!
> 
> The driver backed up to my shop overhead door, put the crate on the lift gate, lowered it to about an inch off the ground, then backed the left gate and crate right into the shop.
> 
> ...


Good looking mill


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## wrmiller (May 8, 2017)

xplodee said:


> Considering this fact, I think it's pretty conclusive that there is ZERO reason to purchase a 5" vise for these machines. I know some people don't want to hear that, but it's true.



Facts? I think you need to relax a bit. Your conclusions based on your 'facts' are just an opinion, and are just as valid as everyone else's here. As an opinion.

I and other's here have perfectly valid reasons for owning a 5" vise. Maybe you don't want to hear that, but it's true.


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## Ken226 (May 9, 2017)

The 5" Glacern is plenty big enough for what I do.  It's hangs over the table about 3-4" less on the front (operator) side of the machine, which gives me a little more dial visibility. I don't use a DRO, gotta be able to see my Y handwheel dial.  If I ever need a bigger vise, I have a cheap wang-dong 6" vise in a cabinet somewhere.

I made 2 speed handles yesterday.  One 5/8 handle for my  5" Glacern vise, and also made a 9/16 handle for my 4" Shars vise.  Turns out the Shars vise has a 14mm stud, not 9/16.  My 9/16 speed handle fits it well enough, but could be better.  The 5/8 version for the Glacern vise fits beautifully.


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## wrmiller (May 9, 2017)

Very nice!


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## Alan H. (May 11, 2017)

Very, very nice Ken.  Size and logo engraved too!  We've hijacked this thread, I am going to start a new one on 5" vice handles.


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## zmotorsports (May 18, 2017)

Very nice job on the handles and congrats on the new PM mill.  Great choice.

Mike.


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## xplodee (May 18, 2017)

wrmiller said:


> Facts? I think you need to relax a bit. Your conclusions based on your 'facts' are just an opinion, and are just as valid as everyone else's here. As an opinion.
> 
> I and other's here have perfectly valid reasons for owning a 5" vise. Maybe you don't want to hear that, but it's true.



Um, ok.

Regardless, many people are trying to make the best decisions that they can for their mill. To say that a 6" vice doesn't fit well or has sacrifices may cause some to buy a 5" thinking it's a better fit for this mill. The point is there are many reasons to buy a certain size vice for a specific mill, but "fit" is not a reason to rule out a 6" vice on the PM-935. Price, weight, sure, those might be reasons for some people. Different strokes for different folks.


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## Rich V (May 20, 2017)

They say a picture is worth a thousand words.
Galcern 6 inch vise on my PM935, works for me.


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## Alan H. (May 20, 2017)

Curious why you chose "Glacern" vs. the Kurt?


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## Ken226 (May 20, 2017)

Great looking vise Rich!  

Are you using a DRO?  Do you have to maneuver your head around to see they axis dial?


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## Rich V (May 20, 2017)

Alan H  - The galcern was cheaper than a similar kurt and the quality is excellent.

Ken226 - Yes I have a DRO so no need to look at the dial.


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