# New Lathe



## srfallsallot (Nov 30, 2019)

Hi all.  I am not a machinist.  I have made some one off parts at work. I have a lot of experience in CAD modeling and everything I have made at home both wood and metal are first 3d CAD modeled. I just got rid of a 40 yr old drill press. Replaced it with a PM932M PDF 3axDRO.  What  joy to use for simple projects.  Big enough to do wood working too.  I am looking at a PM1440BV 2ax DRO lathe. The variable speed is a big draw. I have the space and the power. I have wanted a metal shop forever and time is getting short. This is not a business. I have no idea what I will make with this so I am thinking it should be the biggest machine that will fit my space. 

Am I going to big? Should I be looking at something smaller? Advice would be very appreciated.


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## MrCrankyface (Nov 30, 2019)

If you're going for something in that size I would really recommend finding one with cross-slide powerfeed, not sure if the PM1440 has it.
I've always been of the opinion to get the biggest and most powerful you can afford and have space for.


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## srfallsallot (Nov 30, 2019)

MrCrankyface said:


> If you're going for something in that size I would really recommend finding one with cross-slide powerfeed, not sure if the PM1440 has it.
> I've always been of the opinion to get the biggest and most powerful you can afford and have space for.


It does have the power cross feed.  I am also looking at the PM1340GT


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## ThinWoodsman (Nov 30, 2019)

srfallsallot said:


> Am I going to big? Should I be looking at something smaller?



If you have the space, 14x40 is just right for hobby/amateur. Plenty of power and rigidity, plus the bed length to work on gun barrels, tractor parts, etc should the need arise.


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## mikey (Nov 30, 2019)

srfallsallot said:


> *I have no idea what I will make* with this so I am thinking it should be the biggest machine that will fit my space.
> 
> Am I going to big? Should I be looking at something smaller? Advice would be very appreciated.



It might help to know what hobbies you enjoy and whether you are a gun guy or live on a farm or in the suburbs, etc. If you don't know what you're going to do with the lathe then choosing the right one is going to be difficult. As you can see, there is the "buy the biggest you can fit/afford" school of thought and it is probably the prevailing one on the forum. Then there is the "get the right tool for the job(s) at hand" group, of which I am one. 

My suggestion is to put a lot of thought into what you think you will need to do with the lathe, then buy the best size and quality you can afford to suit your needs. You should also know which features matter on a lathe and make sure the one you choose has those features. 

Once you home in on one or two lathes, ask the guys who own those lathes for feedback and they'll give it to you. The reason this matters is that you have to live with a lathe to really know the lathe. Spec sheets, pictures and hype do not give you the real stuff but the guy who owns one will tell you exactly what you need to know.


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## mksj (Nov 30, 2019)

Difficult question, but I would say the sweet spot looking at function and usability is a 1340 or 1440 lathe which is the most common size format. It also always folds back to mass of the machine for rigidity. I had a 1340GT and was very capable machine able to easily hit 0.0005" tolerances. I eventually ended up with a heavier 1340 which is more rigid, you can take heavier cuts. Size wise you need to think about what will fit through the spindle, one area where Quality Machine Tools seems to provide some of the largest spindle bores compared to other brands. I like the attributes of the variable speed on the fly and some of the other VFD features, but people have been getting by w/o them for decades.

Major difference between the two lathes you are looking at beyond the specs. is the fit and finish which tends to be better on the Taiwanese machines. But overall size wise, if you have the space I would go with either a 1340 or 1440 lathe. Basic VFD installs on the 1340/1440GT is not too difficult if that is a consideration.


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## Aaron_W (Nov 30, 2019)

The PM machines that end in T, PM-1340GT etc are made in Taiwan and generally considered better quality than the Chinese made machines. Whether the $5000 PM-1340GT is actually better quality than the $6200 PM-1440BV I have no idea.

Without knowing what you want to do it is pretty much impossible for someone here say what is right for you. If you have the space and budget for a 14x40" lathe, great, but if a 12x36" is all you really need you could apply the more than $2000 savings towards more tooling or supporting tools. If instead you should have gone with something bigger, or you get to fondle a PM-1440GT and wish you had sprung for the extra $2500 that is an expensive lesson since the resell value on a machine drops to about 50% of retail as soon as it rolls into your shop.


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## Chipper5783 (Nov 30, 2019)

Space, power, transport and cash permitting - a 1440 is a very nice size machine for general mucking around.  My first lathe (still the goto lathe) was a 15x60 and it has met 99.9% of my lathe needs.  The only "nice to have" would have been a larger spindle bore - I've a D1-4 mount so just over 1.5" hole.  I've since acquired a very sweet, classic toolroom 11x24 lathe that is well kitted out - but I still go to the larger machine even though the majority of what I do would work find on the smaller machine.  A second lathe is extremely useful, so as not to disturb set-ups, or for certain specific features (the little S&B is great for threading, collet work, higher or lower speeds),

The 1440 would be a great machine.  Can you get it with a ~2" spindle bore?

Let us know how you make out.


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## Larry42 (Nov 30, 2019)

I got the PM1440HD 3 years ago. Glad I got that size. At about 2700#s ship wt. it doesn't have any vibration problems even when I get carried away with heavy cuts. These machines would be very difficult to put in a basement! My machine has a 1.5" bore. A few times I've wished it was bigger. I don't have variable speed but speeds are easily changed. I got the taper attachment and a very nice collet chuck and collet set at the same time from QM. After having the DRO I'd hate to do W/O.  I use it when setting the taper to get very nice MT fits. The accessory package included was good. I need to change the brass tips on the steady to rollers. I opened all the gear boxes to check for grit, notorious on Chinese machines, but they were clean. Gear shifting was stiff originally but is good now. I bought some extra PM and Shars tool holders, both seem fine. Changing gears for doing metric threads is kind of a PIA, not difficult just greasy. 
You will find you need a mill and a lot of accessories to complete most projects. I do a lot of repair work and there always seems to be something else I want to add. I added a Shars single point tool grinder (Deckle knock off, OK, ) a Grizzly 8" bench grinder that is terrible, a Vertex 8" rotary table that is nice, a Jet 9 X 49 VS mill (used.) Got a Craftsman roll around cabinet & chest on clearance, seems fine but I now need another, maybe a HF. The list goes on & on! It's fun trying new things.  I had no prior experience at metal machining. Have used YouTube university. I recommend "That Lazy Machinist" channel. Have fun, Be safe.


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## ArmyDoc (Nov 30, 2019)

I'm at much the same stage as you - trying to choose the right lathe.  I would recommend two things:
1) Read and watch as much as you can, and make yourself a list of of things you want on your lathe.  Anytime you see a video or read a post where someone says, "I really like this feature" or "make sure you get", add it to your list.
2) making yourself a spread sheet for each model you consider.  Check your spread sheet data against your list.   You will quickly eliminate lathes that don't have what you want, and narrow it down to the ones that you do.  Price points will then be apparent too.

I started out looking at the 1022 and 1127 lathes, but I don't want change gears, so that took them off my list.  I'm now looking at the 1236 with preferred package, vs the 1236GT, vs the 1340GT.  The 1440GT is just too much for me to justify.  The 1236 with preferred package is $4k.  The 1236, by the time you add in all the stuff in the preferred package, is ~$1260 more.  Same size lathe, but Taiwan vs china.  The 1340 is $1500 more than that.

Haven't decided what to do yet, but it makes the decision easier to think about.


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## ats1911 (Dec 1, 2019)

I decided on the PM932M-PDF w/DRO and the PM1236 w/o. I‘m not a machinist either, and space is my biggest constraint. I originally started looking at the PM1030 size, then the 1127 and 1128, and finally settled on the 1236. Jumping to the 1340/1440 range adds another foot or so to the length that I really don’t have. 

I’m new to this, but I‘m not seeing anything in the foreseeable future that I won’t be able to do with these two machines. 

I see you’re in Abq, PM me if you’d like to see the shop. 

—Aaron


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## Stonebriar (Dec 1, 2019)

You all know the saying "Buy once cry once".  I originally bought a 12x36 but wasn't thrilled with the rigidness. One thing about machining is machine mass is definitely a good thing.  I sold my 12x36 and bought a 1440GT.  Space not being an issue for me if I were smarter or more knowledgeable when I started I would have at least bought the 1340GT. The only thing I don't like about the 1340gt is the open gearbox mess. 

If you need mobility try finding one of these.


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## markba633csi (Dec 1, 2019)

I didn't know Robert Duvall was into machining- maybe that's his dad?


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## wrmiller (Dec 1, 2019)

srfallsallot said:


> It does have the power cross feed.  I am also looking at the PM1340GT



I have a 1340GT with a VFD and love the quality and accuracy of this lathe. It will do good quality work as long as you stay within it's intended work envelope. I personally would have preferred a high quality smaller lathe (working envelope), but my choices were either a Hardinge HLV-H (or clone) or a Monarch 10EE. Neither of which I could afford. I've fantasized about having a shop chop about a foot or so off my lathe and marrying it to a solid one-piece base for more mass/rigidity. But I can't afford that either. 

I do small hobby stuff and pistolsmithing and don't push my machines hard at all. If I needed to regularly take .1" DOC cuts I'd have saved for a HD 16x40 and been done with it. Like that new one that Matt sells.

My point here is to just give a shout out to the quality of the 1340 lathe, and to point out that you really should base this decision on what you want to do with this thing. Not what everyone else suggests. Because guess what? If you buy the wrong tool, you are the only one affected.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 1, 2019)

I'm a spec nerd, there are a lot of intangibles that you can not determine without actual fondle time on a machine, smoothness of operation, rigidity, ergonomics etc, but you can find a lot of differences just looking at specs and make some assumptions about some of the intangibles, specifically rigidity as weight is directly tied to taming vibration.

Comparing the PM 12x36, to 13x40 to 14x40, the difference in actual capacity is minimal, all three can work a piece of roughly the same size until you are pushing the limits and even then you are only looking at about 1" in diameter and a couple inches in length. A 14x40 may be happier turning a 6x24" piece of material (192lbs), but a 12x36" is fully capable of that. How often is a home user turning material of a size to really make a difference between a 12x36 and 14x40 lathe?

Spindle bore is probably a much bigger feature in home shop sized lathes. 3/4-1" in the 9-10" class, 1-3/8 to 1-9/16" in the 11-13" sizes. and often little difference between modern 12" and 13" lathes. The PM 14x40s have a spindle bore of 2" so quite a bit more than the PM 12 and 13" lathes.

Power, 12" are typically 1-1/2 to 2hp, 13" are mostly 2hp and 14" are mostly 3hp so there is a difference, but often not huge from step to step and there can be overlap from one to the next.

Weight (lathe only)
1022 is 360lbs
1236 is 960lbs
1236GT 850lbs
1340GT 1100lbs
the various 1440s are 1800lbs

Probably safe to assume the 14" class is a lot more rigid than a 12 or 13" lathe.


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## srfallsallot (Dec 1, 2019)

Thank you all for your input. Lots to think about.  I spread sheet the PM lathes. $creep. More better. Lucky for me I may procrastinate till I am to old to care.


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## BGHansen (Dec 1, 2019)

If I was buying another lathe, I'd take a hard look at the 1440GS from PM.  Has a 2" spindle bore and a universal quick change gear box.  My current go to lathe is a Grizzly G0709 14x40.  I've had no issues with my lathe, but I'm pretty conservative when it comes to depth of cuts.  Figure if I break it, I have to fix it.  My G0709 has a universal QCGB too which makes it a snap to switch between metric and English threading.  

Bruce


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## srfallsallot (Dec 1, 2019)

mikey said:


> It might help to know what hobbies you enjoy and whether you are a gun guy or live on a farm or in the suburbs, etc. If you don't know what you're going to do with the lathe then choosing the right one is going to be difficult. As you can see, there is the "buy the biggest you can fit/afford" school of thought and it is probably the prevailing one on the forum. Then there is the "get the right tool for the job(s) at hand" group, of which I am one.
> 
> My suggestion is to put a lot of thought into what you think you will need to do with the lathe, then buy the best size and quality you can afford to suit your needs. You should also know which features matter on a lathe and make sure the one you choose has those features.
> 
> Once you home in on one or two lathes, ask the guys who own those lathes for feedback and they'll give it to you. The reason this matters is that you have to live with a lathe to really know the lathe. Spec sheets, pictures and hype do not give you the real stuff but the guy who owns one will tell you exactly what you need to know.





Aaron_W said:


> I'm a spec nerd, there are a lot of intangibles that you can not determine without actual fondle time on a machine, smoothness of operation, rigidity, ergonomics etc, but you can find a lot of differences just looking at specs and make some assumptions about some of the intangibles, specifically rigidity as weight is directly tied to taming vibration.
> 
> Comparing the PM 12x36, to 13x40 to 14x40, the difference in actual capacity is minimal, all three can work a piece of roughly the same size until you are pushing the limits and even then you are only looking at about 1" in diameter and a couple inches in length. A 14x40 may be happier turning a 6x24" piece of material (192lbs), but a 12x36" is fully capable of that. How often is a home user turning material of a size to really make a difference between a 12x36 and 14x40 lathe?
> 
> ...



Hobbies. Trials dirt bike, Cabochon making, rock hounding, silversmithing, light automotive work, hunting fishing, reloading, lots of research on the net. wood working, ATV. Maybe I have too many hobbies?


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## srfallsallot (Dec 1, 2019)

Astronomy too.


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## mikey (Dec 1, 2019)

Nah, I think you fit right in with most of us who have many, many interests and machining happens to support all or most of them. What I saw on your list suggests that a 14" lathe might be overkill but if you plan to do gunsmithing then maybe that might be just what you need. 

You got some good advice in this thread. Personally, I would look hard at the PM1236T or the 1340GT.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 1, 2019)

srfallsallot said:


> Maybe I have too many hobbies?



I wasn't aware that was possible. Not enough time is a thing, but never too many hobbies.


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## jbolt (Dec 3, 2019)

I have a PM1440GT which covers 99% of my current needs. My previous home lathe was a 1324 so it was a big step up. I really like my 1440GT but at the current price, if I were looking for a hobby lathe today, I would seriously consider the 1440GS. Lots of features for the price. 

If you have the space a 1440 size, IMO, is the sweet spot for a hobby lathe. Having more capacity opens up more opportunities for what type of work you can do. It is not so big that it feels awkward to do small stuff or so small you will be wishing for more.


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## srfallsallot (Dec 3, 2019)

Thank you all for your input. Much to think about. Is a variable speed worth the $ difference?


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## Stonebriar (Dec 3, 2019)

I have the 1440gt also and to me I dont see where a variable speed would be worth a dollar difference.


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## jbolt (Dec 3, 2019)

I have a vfd conversion on my 1440gt. I did the vfd conversion for the 3 phase motor, soft start, electronic breaking and the FWD/REV jog feature. While I also have mine setup for variable speed, most of the time I just change gears. The variable speed can come in handy for fine tuning a particular material that prefers a rpm other than the set gear speeds. I have not found that to happen very often. I know others with vfd conversions who do most of their work within a certain rpm range and will set the gear somewhere in the middle and then adjust with the dial. My old lathe was a 1.5 hp variable speed and I found it struggled at lower rpm work. I have no experience with the PM1440BV so it would be good to hear from someone who owns one as to how it performs.


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## Larry42 (Dec 3, 2019)

I think all motors will struggle when they are slowed significantly using electronic variable speed. My problem with buying a machine that relies on variable speed electronics, sooner or later the electronics will fail. The same electronics will likely not be available. Likely some one will be able to find a fix but it will cost. Gear driven machines will run a very long time W/O failure. If you feel you really need the speeds between what the gears can give you, add a separate variable frequency drive. My lathe (PM1440HD) has 12 spindle speeds from 40rpm to 1800. As a hobbyist, that has met all my needs. My most commonly used speeds are 325, 460 and 650. 1800 is scary fast! Maybe using VS when facing a big part would be ideal but none of the "real," translate professional, machinist that I know have VS on their lathes. Maybe you should try asking Keith Fenner, Oxtool, Thatlazymachinist or Robrenz what they think. They all have heaps of experience.


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## Larry42 (Dec 3, 2019)

Before you jump into electronic VS on a lathe take a look @ a video by *blondihacks*.com where she has problems with electronics on her mill. My lathe has 12 spindle speeds (PM1440HD) that have met all my requirements. 40rpm to a scary 1800.


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## mksj (Dec 3, 2019)

Factory VFD machines are usually 2-3 speeds, the motor are often the next size up to handle the RPM extremes. I do find that adjustment on the fly is advantageous for things like boring/drilling where there is a sweet spot. Also when you cut down in diameter you often turn up the speed to maintain SFM. The soft start, slow jog and electronic braking are all worthwhile. Just like using a DRO, died in the wool say it is one more thing to go wrong, those that use them always say I should have done it sooner. Nice to have, but not a must have.

As far as things breaking/longevity, I have yet to see a VFD fail in 10+ years other than the cheap Chinese brands. People are still using VFDs that are 2+ decades old and pretty darn big. They all work pretty much the same, they are controlled by programmed inputs and that isn't going to change in the near future. I will probably be long gone by the time my VFD  goes south (the rated service life on the Yaskawa's is something like 27 years). In the mean time I get to enjoy all the benefits of the VFDs. Eventually it will be cheaper to have these mechanical machines electronically controlled and eliminate gearboxes, change gears, etc.  to a major degree. My factory VFD mill  is a direct single speed belt drive, with just a back gear, all the controls are electronically controlled. Yes, I think VS is worth a small premium, but it is the rest of the machine that is determining the decision.

You can compare numbers, but at the end of the day until you start getting your hands on a machine it is hard to appreciate the differences. You also need to factor in that the lathe accessories can cost almost as much as the machine at the end of the day. You want a D1-4 or D1-5 chuck mount, the latter is required for the larger spindle bore, chucks and back plates are available in both sizes. Most people end up with a 3J scroll, 4J independent and usually some form of collet chuck for smalls. Some lathes come with chucks, the Chinese mainland chucks tend to be poorer quality so you may want to get better chucks. Get a QCTP and a buch of holders. Most of use use a BXA size QCTP, which is a very common size. Bigger machine may need a CXA (next size up), 1236 might fit a BXA.  Size matters as to availability of tooling. It is a deep rabbit hole from there, and a long learning curve.

Probably focus on the 1340GT, 1440BV and 1440GS. Capacity wise they are all close, the 1340GT is the most popular. No change gears other than for metric, the Norton gearbox is primitive but has been used for decades. Fit/finish is significantly better, but a few less features. My major concern with the 1340GT was the lack of braking, this was solved with the addition of a VFD that will stop the chuck in 1 second.


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## wrmiller (Dec 4, 2019)

mksj said:


> Just like using a DRO, died in the wool say it is one more thing to go wrong, those that use them always say I should have done it sooner.



I learned to ignore those folks a long time ago, after having to listen to my grandpa go on and on (and on) about how all this new fangled stuff is junk, won't last, etc., etc, ad nauseam. If folks listened to him we'd have never gotten out of the bronze age.


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## Larry42 (Dec 4, 2019)

Seems like putting a good VFD on a geared machine would offer the advantages of both. I'm still leery of Chinese electronic controls. So I wouldn't want a machine that relied on them to remain functional over many years. One thing that would be really nice, putting an additional gears on the quick change gear box that converted the lead screw to metric.


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## wrmiller (Dec 4, 2019)

Larry42 said:


> Seems like putting a good VFD on a geared machine would offer the advantages of both. I'm still leery of Chinese electronic controls. So I wouldn't want a machine that relied on them to remain functional over many years. One thing that would be really nice, putting an additional gears on the quick change gear box that converted the lead screw to metric.



My 1340GT is a geared head with a VFD. The soft start, slow jog, and electronic braking are a big plus. Also, the lathe motor is 3-phase, so that means smoother running (less ISV) than a single-phase motor giving me mirror bright finishes if I do everything else correctly and no 'printing'. The variable speed really lets me fine tune the finish cuts. 

I also have, courtesy of mksj, a electronic stop function that allows me to blind ID thread without having to disengage the threading lever or worry about crashing my tool in the part. It really helps as I don't do blind ID threading very often and I can get a bit tense while doing so.

I can run a geared head lathe just fine. I can even run it without a DRO on it. But I don't want to if I can help it.


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## Dabbler (Dec 4, 2019)

here's my 2 cents on the lathe and VFD, etc....

1440 is a very nice size and it is unlikely you will outgrow it.  It will have all the horsepower you will practically need.

I wouldn't worry too much about the low speed torque problem.  Unless you are doing a lot of work with HSS cutters on pretty large diameters, you will seldom need really slow speeds, except for threading - and - you'd better not be taking deep cuts while threading!  So it isn't too big a deal.  I can see a problem threading a 2" 8 tpi thread and needing to slow it down, but then I'd thread away from the chuck (in reverse, with an inverted tool)  using carbide, and then rev it to about 200-250 anyway.  so no real problem.


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## Larry42 (Dec 5, 2019)

Dabbler said:


> then I'd thread away from the chuck (in reverse, with an inverted tool)


That is by far the easiest, fastest way to thread. I'm going to assume you also plunge straight in W/O all the fooling around with 29+-. 



wrmiller said:


> I also have, courtesy of mksj, a electronic stop function that allows me to blind ID thread without having to disengage the threading lever


That sounds interesting, tell me more.


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## wrmiller (Dec 5, 2019)

Larry42 said:


> That sounds interesting, tell me more.



When I bought my 1340, mksj was making harnesses and control panels to support a vfd and to convert the controls to low voltage. He also wired up some extra features that took advantage of the vfd.

On my setup, he gave me a multi-stage braking feature (3 sec, 1 sec, and 3 sec/1 sec w/micro stop), that worked with the stock micro-stop that he had modified with a precision micro switch and harness. Quite repeatable.

When threading, I set up the lathe and micro-stop to do a 1 sec stop in the relief area I cut where I want to stop threading. Once I begin threading, the lathe will stop in the relief area, I back out the threading tool, hit the bypass switch and run the lathe in reverse back to the starting position. Once there, I dial in the new DOC (I thread straight in) and engage the forward lever. I only use the fwd/rev lever on the carriage, the cross slide dial, and the bypass switch (bypasses the micro switch so the lathe can run in reverse) on my control panel.

Rinse repeat. I don't disengage the threading lever until I'm done.

I mostly use this on blind ID threading as I can get a bit tense when doing those.


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## starr256 (Dec 17, 2019)

If I might present a slightly different take. Given that one has no experience with machining, is not engaged in an apprenticeship program and has no clear idea what to make, try a smaller less powerful new lathe with a good warranty and support. Unless there is a an experienced machinist in the house who owes you a lot of money and is willing to hold your hand, you are going to screw up. Some screw ups are going to mean redoing a part, and some are going to be rather startling and potentially dangerous. The larger lathes are powerful and less forgiving of mistakes. Once experience is gained and tooling acquired, you can always trade up to a bigger machine. If this makes sense, you might consider the PM1030V with DRO (DRO is a must from my prospective). I do recommend Blondihacks video on small lathes.


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