# Lathes And Tools - What Are The Essentials?



## markamerica (Sep 25, 2016)

Being new to all of this, and having just acquired a lathe that I'm going to need to re-wire and re-work almost from scratch in the electrical department, I am looking ahead to the day I have an operational lathe and I can begin to make the things I want/need to make. I realize that there exists an almost infinite array of tools one can employ on a lathe, and I also know one can easily accumulate tools and tool-holders and so on to an extent that dwarfs the investment of the machine itself.  More, depending on the particular things one is manufacturing, there are all sorts of highly specialized tools one can employ.  I expect that this arena will lead me to learn, and learn and learn.  I like that because I believe a day without learning is a day without living.  I know the assembled members of this forum have a broad experience base that can help get me started and going in the right direction, and if I want to go in certain directions at a later time, there are people here to guide me. To get me started off as well as can be expected in my current scenario, I'd like to begin assembling a list of things I'll need. I'd like to start with basic, general use things, that everybody running a lathe is going to need, and I'd like to prioritize a bit.  I'll have to acquire these things in many small purchases over a long period, so I would like to get down to essentials.

One of my chief annoyances at the moment isn't particular to lathes, but is a general tool item. Once upon a time, I had a very nice set of hex wrenches in both standard and metric, that had every common size up to 3/4" (or maybe it was 1"-don't remember for sure) and 20mm.  That was among a lot of tools acquired way back when I was a young man, but was among items stolen in a burglary many years back.  I've accumulated many tools since then, but I've tended to buy what I needed at the time, and don't have many tools that were purchased as part of a larger set any longer.  What I've noticed since then is that somehow, it seems like all the commonly available sets of hex wrenches run up to about 3/8" or 10mm, and you don't see many sets that have anything much beyond that.  Do you tend to buy them as individual items above those sizes, or do you go to more specialized vendors for more expansive sets?  The set that I'd had(the stolen ones) was a Craftsman set, as were so many of the tools carted out by burglar(s) that day.  I looked on Sears' site, and it doesn't seem like they carry anything near what they once did.  I know it seems a trivial thing, but I use hex wrenches of many sizes in my firearms-related endeavors, my R/C airplane related pursuits, and in general automotive and farm-related uses, but most of those fall within the common size envelope of mass-market "sets." (I guess that's why they're mass-market sets.) 

Enough about my allen wrench issues... Back to the lathe-specific items.  I see discussions of carbide inserts vs. HSS inserts, and so on.  I would just like to know where to start, what to put on my acquisition list, and begin getting the things I will need when I finally have my lathe operational.  You guys represent expertise, but I also want input from the other relative newbies.  I say this because you guys have just gotten into all of this, and you're making similar purchases, acquiring similar things, and I want to know what you've found to be most essential in your early lathe work, because you may have found you had to re-prioritize acquisitions from what you originally thought.  I'm very interested to read about that. 

So let's have a "New lathe owner on budget needs tools - doesn't wish to become one" kind of discussion. What I'm learning here in these fora is the extreme graciousness and candor of members, and I find it very refreshing.  Thank you!


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## 4GSR (Sep 25, 2016)

Mark,

I've probably bought over 20 sets of allen wrenches over the past 15 years and still find myself buying them as I see a bargain.  What brands to buy?  I try to by the better brands out there, but have a few sets bought from Horror Freight that have turned out to be darn good!  You will need a 9/16" allen wrench for the two CA tool holders you got from me.  Get long arm allen wrenches!
AS for tooling for your lathe, need to buy a couple of CA holders for turning tools.  We can help you out on this on locating some.  Next will be turning tools.  eBay is saturated with all sorts of turning tools, priced from cheap to high dollar stuff.  This is dependent on what type of inserts you want to use.  May want to use brazed carbide tools for a start or even HSS.  Then you need a few boring bars.  Need to also get you a live center and a drill chuck for your tailstock.  This would get you started.  I probably have some of the basic stuff laying here I could offer you if interested.


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## Bob Korves (Sep 25, 2016)

I suggest that you first learn to grind your own cutting tools.  You will eventually need to do it anyway, so you might as well start learning the art and skill of doing it.  Carbide and insertable tooling are good things, but they are more expensive than HSS and they will not do all jobs well, and will require a large investment to have enough different ones to do good work on whatever you may be turning next.  HSS tools can be adapted to many jobs where nothing else will work well, and results are mostly limited by your skills, which need to be trained and practiced.  On really hard materials you will need carbide.  There come times when it is even useful to grind inserts for a specific and immediate need.  Best of all you learn to recognize what works and what does not on different materials and learn how to improve the results with your own skills instead of using your credit card.  It is not really that difficult, and there are some great tutorials on the web and on YouTube.  Being able to size up a cut that is not working well, determine the reasons why not, and correct the problems without ordering more expensive tooling is a major asset in just about every facet of machining.


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## markamerica (Sep 25, 2016)

Bob Korves said:


> I suggest that you first learn to grind your own cutting tools.  You will eventually need to do it anyway, so you might as well start learning the art and skill of doing it.  Carbide and insertable tooling are good things, but they are more expensive than HSS and they will not do all jobs well, and will require a large investment to have enough different ones to do good work on whatever you may be turning next.  HSS tools can be adapted to many jobs where nothing else will work well, and results are only limited by your skills, which need to be trained and practiced.  There come times when it is even useful to grind inserts for a specific and immediate need.  Best of all you learn to recognize what works and what does not on different materials and learn how to improve the results with your own skills instead of using your credit card.  It is not really that difficult, and there are some great tutorials on the web and on YouTube.  Being able to size up a cut that is not working well, determine the reasons why not, and correct the problems without ordering more expensive tools is a major asset in just about every facet of machining.


Bob,

Thanks! All solid advice. So let's talk grinders. I've got a 20yo bench grinder of dirt-cheap origins, don't remember if it was from Horror Freight, or Wally-World or what. Good for the little imprecise things I've done over the years but pretty cheesy. Thoughts on a decent new or "newsed" one?  And wheels... 

As for using one's mind, my maternal grand-dad was a machinist, and he would tell me that "sure there's hard work involved, but most machining happens between the ears." So I endorse the notion you've put forward. 

I'm new to machining in any formal sense, but I've done a few little things here and there. It's probably a skill I can learn. Thanks!
Mark


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## markamerica (Sep 25, 2016)

4gsr said:


> Mark,
> 
> I've probably bought over 20 sets of allen wrenches over the past 15 years and still find myself buying them as I see a bargain.  What brands to buy?  I try to by the better brands out there, but have a few sets bought from Horror Freight that have turned out to be darn good!  You will need a 9/16" allen wrench for the two CA tool holders you got from me.  Get long arm allen wrenches!
> AS for tooling for your lathe, need to buy a couple of CA holders for turning tools.  We can help you out on this on locating some.  Next will be turning tools.  eBay is saturated with all sorts of turning tools, priced from cheap to high dollar stuff.  This is dependent on what type of inserts you want to use.  May want to use brazed carbide tools for a start or even HSS.  Then you need a few boring bars.  Need to also get you a live center and a drill chuck for your tailstock.  This would get you started.  I probably have some of the basic stuff laying here I could offer you if interested.


Ken,

Makes sense. I'm building a list and will start buying things as I see good bargains come along. I don't at all mind buying used as often, that's the way to go and better than some of the cheaper new stuff out there, from what I've seen. 

Thanks!

Mark


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## Bob Korves (Sep 25, 2016)

markamerica said:


> Bob,
> 
> Thanks! All solid advice. So let's talk grinders. I've got a 20yo bench grinder of dirt-cheap origins, don't remember if it was from Horror Freight, or Wally-World or what. Good for the little imprecise things I've done over the years but pretty cheesy. Thoughts on a decent new or "newsed" one?  And wheels...
> 
> ...


A bench grinder is a very simple device.  The wheels spin and there is a rest to put the work or your hand on.  If you have that and it runs, you are ready to go regarding a bench grinder.  A general purpose aluminum oxide grinding wheel will work.  Whatever it came with is probably fine.  There are smoother and more expensive grinders, but you can grind a good tool on any of them, as long at the wheel or grinder is not so much out of balance that it walks off the table.  Oh, and the grinder wheel needs to be dressed, nice and square across the cutting face, with nice sharp abrasive grains exposed to the work.  That should also help make it run smoother...


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## markamerica (Sep 25, 2016)

Bob Korves said:


> A bench grinder is a very simple device.  The wheels spin and there is a rest to put the work or your hand on.  If you have that and it runs, you are ready to go regarding a bench grinder.  A general purpose aluminum oxide grinding wheel will work.  Whatever it came with is probably fine.  There are smoother and more expensive grinders, but you can grind a good tool on any of them, as long at the wheel or grinder is not so much out of balance that it walks off the table.  Oh, and the grinder wheel needs to be dressed, nice and square across the cutting face, with nice sharp abrasive grains exposed to the work.  That should also help make it run smoother...



Bob,
Sounds about right. My old grinder walks pretty good though...  I dress the wheels periodically. Probably should do more often. 

Thanks! 

Mark


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## JimDawson (Sep 25, 2016)

markamerica said:


> As for using one's mind, my maternal grand-dad was a machinist, and he would tell me that "sure there's hard work involved, but most machining happens between the ears."



Your grand-dad was a wise man

I have been using my cheap Chinese 8 inch bench grinder for 25 years, still with the original wheels.  I grind carbide and everything else on it.  With carbide you just have to push a little harder, but it cuts pretty fast when it gets red hot.  The grinder vibrates pretty good, but I just put my foot on the pedestal base to hold it in place.

I normally only buy the highest quality brazed carbide AR-8 bits from Harbor Freight.    About $1.80 each in packs of 10.  They actually hold up well, and if you destroy one it's not catastrophic.  And I keep an assortment of HSS bits around for those times carbide just won't do or I need that special profile.


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## Chipper5783 (Sep 25, 2016)

The above comments are all excellent.  Your question is good, but difficult to answer.  It sounds like you have been into making, fixing, building for quite a few years.  I am betting that you already have lots of tools that will be useful in machining.  You probably already have a selection of drill bits, maybe some taps & dies, no doubt wrenches and other basic tools.  Also of importance is what you want to do with the machine?  For example, if you want to be making custom bolting, you need to get set up for threading.  On the other hand, I know of home machinists who have never threaded with their lathes.  What tooling you acquire, depends on what you want to do with the lathe.  Okay, another consideration is the opportunities you have available to you.  If you happen across some good used items that will work for you, even if it is not the next item on the list - buy it because it will save you money in the long run.

HSS is fine.  Brazed carbide is fine, but carbide is very brittle and you need a good way to grind it.  When you do start to use brazed carbide tooling, get a silicon carbide (green) wheel - it grinds pretty slow, so don't get too fine a wheel.
Review previous posts - also, drill chuck, selection of center drills, live center, one good sized drill bit (say 1" - for starting a hole that you will bore).  You need a way to cut material to length.  You don't need to get a parting tool right away.  If you have some sort of a saw, you can take the piece out of the lathe - cut it to length and face the end (I did not have a parting tool for the first couple years).

Perhaps it has just been my projects, but two area I found myself getting into was: boring tools and measuring tools.  It seemed I soon had quite a selection of boring tools and methods to hold the boring bars.  The measuring tools are necessary in the endless "pursuit of precision".  You need basic ID & OD measuring tools in the sizes for the jobs you will be doing.

Let us know how you make out.

Regards, David


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## Tony Wells (Sep 26, 2016)

At one time we had a thread for people to give their ideas on essential tooling for lathes, and one for mills. I can't seem to locate either of them at the moment. I did find this thread, sort of along those lines, but less organized and I think less comprehensive. Might be an interesting read for you though.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/some-useful-lathe-tools.51/


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## markamerica (Sep 26, 2016)

JimDawson said:


> Your grand-dad was a wise man
> 
> I have been using my cheap Chinese 8 inch bench grinder for 25 years, still with the original wheels.  I grind carbide and everything else on it.  With carbide you just have to push a little harder, but it cuts pretty fast when it gets red hot.  The grinder vibrates pretty good, but I just put my foot on the pedestal base to hold it in place.
> 
> I normally only buy the highest quality brazed carbide AR-8 bits from Harbor Freight.    About $1.80 each in packs of 10.  They actually hold up well, and if you destroy one it's not catastrophic.  And I keep an assortment of HSS bits around for those times carbide just won't do or I need that special profile.


Thanks Jim, it's good to know one can go at things economically. I think my grinder is okay. The rests are crap though and one of the wheels probably needs replaced. Harbor freight is harbor freight, but I buy some stuff there. I'll probably buy a 10-pack and see how that goes. I've gotten a few things from them over the years that I expected would be crap, and were, but I've also gotten a few things from them that were okay and still use constantly.

Thanks!


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## Cadillac STS (Sep 26, 2016)

A horizontal band saw is an essential tool.  Need it for cutting down stock.  Wouldn't want to put an inch and a half round bar in a vise and use a hacksaw repeatedly.  The Harbor Freight one works fine.


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## markamerica (Sep 26, 2016)

Chipper5783 said:


> The above comments are all excellent.  Your question is good, but difficult to answer.  It sounds like you have been into making, fixing, building for quite a few years.  I am betting that you already have lots of tools that will be useful in machining.  You probably already have a selection of drill bits, maybe some taps & dies, no doubt wrenches and other basic tools.  Also of importance is what you want to do with the machine?  For example, if you want to be making custom bolting, you need to get set up for threading.  On the other hand, I know of home machinists who have never threaded with their lathes.  What tooling you acquire, depends on what you want to do with the lathe.  Okay, another consideration is the opportunities you have available to you.  If you happen across some good used items that will work for you, even if it is not the next item on the list - buy it because it will save you money in the long run.
> 
> HSS is fine.  Brazed carbide is fine, but carbide is very brittle and you need a good way to grind it.  When you do start to use brazed carbide tooling, get a silicon carbide (green) wheel - it grinds pretty slow, so don't get too fine a wheel.
> Review previous posts - also, drill chuck, selection of center drills, live center, one good sized drill bit (say 1" - for starting a hole that you will bore).  You need a way to cut material to length.  You don't need to get a parting tool right away.  If you have some sort of a saw, you can take the piece out of the lathe - cut it to length and face the end (I did not have a parting tool for the first couple years).
> ...


David,

Thank you. You're right: I've been fixing, making, and building things all my life. Started with erector sets, Lincoln logs, and Legos as a kid. Watched my grandfathers and father intently as a kid, always helped Dad on every project. Was a mechanic in the Army who learned sometimes, you may not have the exact tool, equipment, or material you might want or need, but still had to get the mission accomplished. Work with computers, networks, etc in my paying job these days, but on the farm, still build or fix most of whatever we need, most of the time. I hate paying people to do things I know how to do, which is a pool of knowledge I've tried to expand my whole life. Tend to learn new things as needed, necessity being the mother of invention, and persistence being its father. My hobbies help, though my wife could strangle me at times.  I've always been in the business of figuring out how to make things work, one way or the other. So yes, I have all kinds of tools, seldom a "full set" of anything, because I've tended to buy what I've needed when I needed it. Have the 12yo Miller Bobcat 250, rely on that a ton on the farm. Can weld up most things I need, heck, built the barn with that, from a pile of pipe and purlin. Will use the heck out of it for enclosing the workshop too. Have a big synchro wave welder I got for a good price several years back, haven't used it as much, though that will change soon.

I have a variety of drill bits, mostly all under 1/2, with a few exceptions, a ton of small taps under 3/8 or 10mm I use for a lot of stuff, primarily r/c plane stuff, though I have a few larger for other things here and there on the farm.

One of the projects/inventions I'm working on now requires a milling machine, which I don't have. Of course, that hasn't stopped me entirely because I've used an old radial drill press as a sort of primitive mill with one of those small X-y tables you can buy. Hard to be precise with that, but I putter along.

So yes, I've made do... Part of acquiring the lathe is about the fact that for some things, cobbled-together solutions really won't stand up. If I had a dollar for every time I've muttered "I wish I had a lathe" over the last 25 years as I worked on this or that, I'd have bought a big new one a decade ago with all the bells and whistles. Of course, like many things I've acquired over time, the lathe falls into that category of: "but I'll have to fix it first..." That never stopped me.

The best thing about having the father and grandfathers I was so fortunate to have was the idea they instilled in me, probably from the very start: Use your mind and figure it out. Don't have a tool? MAKE a tool. Don't have the equipment? What do you have and how can it be used in a pinch? I'm pretty certain my Dad's father saw the world as forces acting in a geometric space. There wasn't much he couldn't figure out.

So yes, I've got some tools, probably a few that would seem out of place until you understand how I've used them. 

But that's half the fun... One of the things my Frau doesn't understand is when I climb in bed, I'll turn the TV to something instructive, or educational in a broader sense. I don't know how many of you guys ever watch Suburban Tool or OxToolCo on YouTube, but I get a kick out of those kinds of things. She shakes her head and rolls her eyes but I like seeing how things are done. Watched a short video of 4gsr grinding ways on a L&S lathe that was really spiffy. I love watching people solve real world problems. It's one of the reasons I lurked here a long time, periodically, as it's interesting to me how others approach problems. You guys here rock. 

Thanks!

Mark


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## markamerica (Sep 26, 2016)

Tony Wells said:


> At one time we had a thread for people to give their ideas on essential tooling for lathes, and one for mills. I can't seem to locate either of them at the moment. I did find this thread, sort of along those lines, but less organized and I think less comprehensive. Might be an interesting read for you though.
> 
> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/some-useful-lathe-tools.51/


Thanks Tony, I'll have a look!

Mark


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## markamerica (Sep 26, 2016)

Cadillac STS said:


> A horizontal band saw is an essential tool.  Need it for cutting down stock.  Wouldn't want to put an inch and a half round bar in a vise and use a hacksaw repeatedly.  The Harbor Freight one works fine.


Cadillac STS,

Funny you should mention bandsaws. I was actually looking at a couple yesterday, including HF's offerings. Mostly, to date, the metals I've worked with were pipe and purlin and angle iron, and some small diameter bar stock(< or = 1") and I use my trusty Dewalt chop saw, but a bandsaw would be a definite help. Being economically-minded, I scan Craigslist watching for stuff like that. Sometimes, people will go buy an item like that at HF, use it for one job, and then sell it. The item may be barely used, maybe a bit abused, but usually serviceable for my needs. 

Thanks for the tip!

Mark


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## Reeltor (Sep 26, 2016)

a few years ago I picked up a bandsaw from Enco with free shipping for less money than the HF one of the same size.  When the saw arrived it was badged MSC and is much better quality than I expected and definitely better than the HF one.  With MSC folding Enco into their line, check on-line for the current pricing, they have been running Free Shipping Fridays that includes machinery.  One thing that I don't like about MSC advertising is the sale email stating "UP-TO" 30% off or whatever.  Not all items are on sale like the old Enco sale codes.  Whatever saw you decide on, get good quality blades, they make a world of difference.

Mike


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## markamerica (Sep 26, 2016)

Reeltor said:


> a few years ago I picked up a bandsaw from Enco with free shipping for less money than the HF one of the same size.  When the saw arrived it was badged MSC and is much better quality than I expected and definitely better than the HF one.  With MSC folding Enco into their line, check on-line for the current pricing, they have been running Free Shipping Fridays that includes machinery.  One thing that I don't like about MSC advertising is the sale email stating "UP-TO" 30% off or whatever.  Not all items are on sale like the old Enco sale codes.  Whatever saw you decide on, get good quality blades, they make a world of difference.
> 
> Mike


Mike, the quality of the blade makes all the difference in almost everything. I've learned that the hard way too many times. I'll almost always spend more on a blade for that reason.  Just makes sense.  Thanks for the tip on the Enco bandsaw. 

Mark


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## Reeltor (Sep 26, 2016)

Getting back to why I think the Enco/MSC band saw is better than the HF and similar units.  The pulleys on the MSC are machined (aluminum?) IMHO better than the steel (stamped?) ones on the HF.  I have not taken the gear box apart but the MSC is larger rectangular in shape vs. the smaller round one on the HF.  The general condition of the cast iron on my particular saw appears to have a better overall finish than the saw at my local HF store.  I paid $176 or $179 delivered to my door; I don't know if this sale price has gone the way of the arbor press sale pricing or not, but it's worth a look.  I'm sure that my saw would benefit from the saw tuneup that is posted somewhere on this site, but it works OK for me the way it came.

Forget everything I just said about pricing; MSC sent an email with a private Enco 3 day 40% off sale.  Just for fun I put the saw in my checkout box, $349 then added the discount code SAVE40.  The pricing then changed to over $500 list price, less $189 discount for the "sale price" of $349.  For that price, I'd upgrade to one of the larger hydraulic bandsaws.


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## ericc (Sep 26, 2016)

Do you have a toolpost for your lathe?  This old machinist who has been advising me told me to not waste time making my own, since it won't be precisely square unless I put a lot of effort into it.  I thought about this for awhile, and asked him what would go wrong if it were a few thou off.  He replied that I will be wasting a lot of time during setup to compensate.  Since I didn't have any lathe bits at the time, I just fabbed a block out of blacksmithing ends and stick welded it together.  I then drilled a hole and put in a couple of screws to hold a broken drill bit.  The end was roughed out with a homemade pulley grinder and honed with a sharpening stone.  Since that time, I made a real block toolholder and picked up some short HSS bits at a garage sale, but I most reach for the broken drill bit holder.  I only break one or two bits a year, but these things last a long time if you mostly just touch them up with the hone.  Recently I ruined one by turning hard steel (threw sparks!), but a quick touch with the wheel and a few minutes on the stone fixed it right up.  Doesn't matter anyway, since I just broke another drill bit, and now have two more tools to spare.


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## markamerica (Sep 26, 2016)

ericc said:


> Do you have a toolpost for your lathe?  This old machinist who has been advising me told me to not waste time making my own, since it won't be precisely square unless I put a lot of effort into it.  I thought about this for awhile, and asked him what would go wrong if it were a few thou off.  He replied that I will be wasting a lot of time during setup to compensate.  Since I didn't have any lathe bits at the time, I just fabbed a block out of blacksmithing ends and stick welded it together.  I then drilled a hole and put in a couple of screws to hold a broken drill bit.  The end was roughed out with a homemade pulley grinder and honed with a sharpening stone.  Since that time, I made a real block toolholder and picked up some short HSS bits at a garage sale, but I most reach for the broken drill bit holder.  I only break one or two bits a year, but these things last a long time if you mostly just touch them up with the hone.  Recently I ruined one by turning hard steel (threw sparks!), but a quick touch with the wheel and a few minutes on the stone fixed it right up.  Doesn't matter anyway, since I just broke another drill bit, and now have two more tools to spare.


Eric, yes, it has a toolpost. Thankfully, that's an expense I won't have.

Thanks!

Mark


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## Wreck™Wreck (Sep 26, 2016)

You have not mentioned the part sizes, materials and shapes or quantities that you wish to turn nor if the lathe is stout or wobbly, manual or NC.

If the intended work requires arcs and radii then it will require forming tools if a manual machine, these features can be interpolated with an NC machine. If you decide on inserted tooling and the machine is wobbly choose positive rake tools, buy tools that use a common insert for facing, turning, boring and chamfering, if all tools use the same insert you are ahead of the game. 

If the machine is stout and you need to bang out parts all day every day buy tools that perform each operation at maximum speed and depth of cut, you may have to change tools between rough and finish operations.

A CCMT 80 Deg. insert is my go to for facing, turning and boring on parts that are short and thick walled, use the largest nose radius that the operation allows. On long or thin parts that are prone to chatter I use positive rake triangular tools with a small nose radius. WPGT trigon inserts are excellent for roughing operations on a lathe, they often have excellent chip breaking properties.

Good Luck


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## coffmajt (Sep 26, 2016)

markamerica said:


> Thanks Jim, it's good to know one can go at things economically. I think my grinder is okay. The rests are crap though and one of the wheels probably needs replaced. Harbor freight is harbor freight, but I buy some stuff there. I'll probably buy a 10-pack and see how that goes. I've gotten a few things from them over the years that I expected would be crap, and were, but I've also gotten a few things from them that were okay and still use constantly.
> 
> Thanks!


Try to find some Norton wheels that are made to grind tool steel.  They will cost about 3 times what a cheap alox wheel will but they will be smooth to grind on, last at least 3 times longer, and best of all, not burn up your tool steel from overheat -- Good luck and enjoy the experience == Jack


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## Splat (Sep 26, 2016)

You need to learn how to grind your own tool bits. That's a definite. Now, having said that, most newbies want to jump right in making chips when we're new. I tried my hand when I got my lathe grinding my own tools. I had a helluva hard time and was not happy with the results. I bought a set of Diamond tangential toolholders. With a .250" HSS bit and the grinding jig that comes with the tool holder you can get excellent results, barring any speed or feed miscalculations. I looked at AR Warner's HSS inserts. What's nice about the Warner inserts is you just pop a HSS insert into the tool and you got a nice new edge. The reason I went with the tangential tool holder was because the only place you can get the HSS inserts is Warner, yet you can find 1/4" HSS stock easily. MOF, I'm still using the same 1/4" bit since I first got the tangential tooling! Touchups are a breeze. The only downer is having to adjust the tool height after sharpening the bit, but it takes 2 seconds. The better grinding wheels to get for HSS bits are white aluminum oxide, usually J-grade. They will grind cooler than the typical grey but you could use the grey. Here's a good place to get Norton wheels at a good price. Get a 60 and 100grit and you should be good to go. Get a good set of micrometers, or an electronic caliper type. I now prefer the analog ratchet stop type of micrometer. You can get a cheap electronic caliper from Harbor Freight to get you started and then maybe you can decide how to proceed to a better one or micrometer. A good dial indicator should also be purchased soon. You could use either the indicator or micrometer or caliper to assist bringing the lathe into alignment since you'll measure test cuts.  Oh, good cutting oil like Oatey 30200 Clear Cutting Oil. Get some acid brushes too to apply the oil to the work.  OK, time to go eat but that's a lot for you to start thinking about. Cheers.


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## markamerica (Sep 26, 2016)

Wreck™Wreck said:


> You have not mentioned the part sizes, materials and shapes or quantities that you wish to turn nor if the lathe is stout or wobbly, manual or NC.
> 
> If the intended work requires arcs and radii then it will require forming tools if a manual machine, these features can be interpolated with an NC machine. If you decide on inserted tooling and the machine is wobbly choose positive rake tools, buy tools that use a common insert for facing, turning, boring and chamfering, if all tools use the same insert you are ahead of the game.
> 
> ...


Wreck,

Thanks.  The lathe I wound up buying is here, I think on page 3 or 4 of this thread. It's a manual Martin DLZ, 2 meters between centers, and 50cm of swing. It needs its electrical system completely re-done.  Basically, I got such a good price on it that I figured it was worth the risk. It's likely that primarily for farm usages, I will make parts of all sizes.  Truth is, looking at the things I'm actually likely to make, I think I figured 45" should probably be the longest thing I'll ever need to make as of now(though you know how that can go...could wind up making something longer.) Some things will be steel, and a few aluminum.  I'll also probably try my hand at a few firearms-related things, and will likely manufacture a few things for my R/C airplane hobby on it.  Truth is, it will be a wide variety over time. I won't be a production shop, so no need to bang out parts day in and out.

Thanks!

Mark


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## markamerica (Sep 26, 2016)

coffmajt said:


> Try to find some Norton wheels that are made to grind tool steel.  They will cost about 3 times what a cheap alox wheel will but they will be smooth to grind on, last at least 3 times longer, and best of all, not burn up your tool steel from overheat -- Good luck and enjoy the experience == Jack



Making a note right now. Thanks Jack. Certain things cost more but are worth more in the better results they produce.

Mark


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## markamerica (Sep 26, 2016)

Splat said:


> You need to learn how to grind your own tool bits. That's a definite. Now, having said that, most newbies want to jump right in making chips when we're new. I tried my hand when I got my lathe grinding my own tools. I had a helluva hard time and was not happy with the results. I bought a set of Diamond tangential toolholders. With a .250" HSS bit and the grinding jig that comes with the tool holder you can get excellent results, barring any speed or feed miscalculations. I looked at AR Warner's HSS inserts. What's nice about the Warner inserts is you just pop a HSS insert into the tool and you got a nice new edge. The reason I went with the tangential tool holder was because the only place you can get the HSS inserts is Warner, yet you can find 1/4" HSS stock easily. MOF, I'm still using the same 1/4" bit since I first got the tangential tooling! Touchups are a breeze. The only downer is having to adjust the tool height after sharpening the bit, but it takes 2 seconds. The better grinding wheels to get for HSS bits are white aluminum oxide, usually J-grade. They will grind cooler than the typical grey but you could use the grey. Here's a good place to get Norton wheels at a good price. Get a 60 and 100grit and you should be good to go. Get a good set of micrometers, or an electronic caliper type. I now prefer the analog ratchet stop type of micrometer. You can get a cheap electronic caliper from Harbor Freight to get you started and then maybe you can decide how to proceed to a better one or micrometer. A good dial indicator should also be purchased soon. You could use either the indicator or micrometer or caliper to assist bringing the lathe into alignment since you'll measure test cuts.  Oh, good cutting oil like Oatey 30200 Clear Cutting Oil. Get some acid brushes too to apply the oil to the work.  OK, time to go eat but that's a lot for you to start thinking about. Cheers.



Splat,  I will learn that, if it kills me. Let's hope it doesn't take that... You'd be surprised at my patience. I've done a little very rudimentary lathe work in the past. VERY rudimentary. I've also improvised a lathe for a few things over time. And I've used wood lathes many times. The table on which my big feet are now resting is supported by four spindles I turned on a lathe in my garage 20-odd years ago.  So while it will be a bit exciting to get the Martin up and running, and makes some chips with it, I'm not so new to this that I'll be giddy over it. More will be over getting the lathe running. I may squeal like a little girl over that...  I have an ancient 1" micrometer and I have the aforementioned cheap digital calipers from HF and a digital indicator also from HF.  Good enough for the things I've needed them for, though I'd like to get a real  dial indicator. I always get the feeling there's a little lag in the digital... Not much, but a little. I'm going to take a look at the toolholders you mentioned.  I've got about a million of the little rolled metal tube hobby brushes I use for applying oil to moving drill bits and such. I buy them in boxes of 250... Cheap, lots of uses, and work okay. Norton seems to be the crowd favorite for wheels, and this isn't the first place I've had them recommended to me. Friend of mine nearby swears by them, and I think he has at least 4 grinders around his shop, various wheels, sizes, but that's the way he likes it. Interesting. I'll be taking a look at everybody's recommendations in detail. My list is surely growing. One of the things I'm going to want to figure out is everything I'll need for threading. Threading is one of the things I expect I'll do often once I figure it all out. 

One of these days soon, I'm going to ask some really dumb questions... Warned you guys on day 1, I've got unlimited numbers of 'em. For right now, I'm making notes. It's a habit I have when working on things... I keep a grid-lined notebook handy.  Nice for organizing thoughts, drawing little pictures, making lists, etc.  I find it helps me keep moving in the right direction. You folk have been a huge help already.

Thanks!

Mark


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## talvare (Sep 28, 2016)

coffmajt said:


> Try to find some Norton wheels that are made to grind tool steel.  They will cost about 3 times what a cheap alox wheel will but they will be smooth to grind on, last at least 3 times longer, and best of all, not burn up your tool steel from overheat -- Good luck and enjoy the experience == Jack



Mark,

Jack's advice about buying the proper grinding wheel is very good. You said you need a new wheel anyway, so do yourself a big favor and buy a dedicated wheel for grinding HSS. You will be glad you did. The link below is an example of a good wheel for grinding your HSS tools. I don't know what diameter wheels your grinder takes, but the link below is for a 6" x 3/4" wheel that is an example of what you need. Norton also makes these in 8" diameter and other widths as well. Basically you want a wheel with the following specs: 38A60H8VBE (the number 8 in this case indicates an 8" wheel).

https://www.zoro.com/norton-grinding-wheel-t1-6x34x1-ao-60g-wht-07660788246/i/G0826962/

Ted


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## markamerica (Sep 29, 2016)

Ted,

Thanks! My old grinder is a 6" and has 6" diameter, 3/4" wide wheels. Both wheels are in pretty bad shape at this point, I was looking, and my son-in-law used it last, and he put a heckuva groove in the side of one of the wheels. Not sure what the heck he was grinding... Apparently, a little supervision might have been good.  He's a good kid, tries hard, actually very smart, and follows directions better than I did at his age, but I think he has learned whatever he knows mostly on his own.  He's a good dad to my granddaughter, and that's all I care about anyway...  

So Norton wheels are firmly on the list. 

Thanks!

Mark


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## bfd (Sep 30, 2016)

good question. there are too many first tools you should have. If  we look at lathe work since you just got a lathe, a drill chuck that fits the tailstock. you say you have drill bits good you need to hold them on the lathe. others talked about tool bits, tool holders and something to
measure with. a center drill to start your hole on center. keep your eye on your local craigslist tool section. I have over the years picked up some great deals. A dial indicator of some type with a magnetic base. check shars, enco ebay machinist tools. one I like is cdco lots of cheap but usable tools. bill


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## Cadillac STS (Oct 1, 2016)

Something to mention about Craigslist and I know most people probably already do this but to state the obvious:  

Don't just look at what comes by day by day.  Use the search bar and search for what you want.  Type in "Lathe" and get all the past ads that are still active.  Have gotten things like that and sometimes the comment is "No one ever called about it."  

Search local Craigslist and cities around you as well because a short drive can be worth what there is to buy especially with something heavy needing a trailer.  What is 30 minutes on the road once you are out?


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## Reeltor (Oct 1, 2016)

Cadillac STS said:


> Something to mention about Craigslist and I know most people probably already do this but to state the obvious:
> 
> Don't just look at what comes by day by day.  Use the search bar and search for what you want.  Type in "Lathe" and get all the past ads that are still active.  Have gotten things like that and sometimes the comment is "No one ever called about it."
> 
> Search local Craigslist and cities around you as well because a short drive can be worth what there is to buy especially with something heavy needing a trailer.  What is 30 minutes on the road once you are out?



1+ on searching old ads.  I picked up a 16" Shaper off of a 4-year old ad.  It was 338 miles away, long trip but worth it

Mike


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## markamerica (Oct 4, 2016)

Okay, so I've been looking around a lot at holders, and so on. I'm finding quite a variety of things. Some things seem like good deals when I look at new prices, but at times, I see things and wonder if I'd ever use them. One of the things that's a little confusing to me(only because I don't know) is that I run into different rake angles and so on, and while I'm sure that over time, I'll come to understand this all, as a newbie, I'm struggling a little.  Part of it is learning the right tool for the right operation.  Some of that will come with experience, but having the pointers on basic stuff is a big help to me at this point.  So assuming I have a tool post that works(and I now do, after extensive work on the post that was on the lathe I purchased,) let me ask about sizes of tool posts.  I gather that the dovetail varies and that there are distinct sizes there, lettered as far as I can tell, and so the post I have seems to be size C or CA? Again, the terminology is killing me as I try to absorb all of this.  As I understand it, the tool posts and so on are sized based upon the swing of the lathe, at least in part, because it's about the height of the tool post and holders etc, relative to the centerline of the spindle.  Again, you guys whack me when I use wrong/erroneous/not-quite-right terminology. I'm sorting my way through all of this, but I don't want to read like a dufus forever.  

As for craigslist, yes, I look at that site frequently. I also look at nearby cities when I'm looking for particular things.  What I've noticed is that sometimes, it's useful to search for a thing multiple ways, because sometimes the seller doesn't know exactly what they're selling.  They may have cleaned out a storage shed, or liquidating a relative's estate, or whatever, and have no idea about the items they're selling.  Some of their terminology is likely to be even more mismatched than mine, and that's saying some.

Thanks!

Mark


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