# My new G0463 Mill arrived and won't run.



## Harv (Feb 6, 2015)

My new G0463 arrived yesterday and I set it in my shop still on the pallet. Today I stripped the box off of it and started to clean it up and run it. The machine would not turn on so I got Grizzly Tech. support on the phone and after taking a few reading with a multi-meter the Tech and I came to the conclusion that the main board is toast. I was able to get the thing running for about 3 seconds but other then that nothing. So now I am supposed to wait until Monday to recieve a phone call letting me know if they will send me a new $700.00 circuit board and if so what I will be required to do with the board that arrived with my machine. Or maybe they might tell me to ship it back, I won't know until Monday.


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## caster (Feb 6, 2015)

S&!t happens, electronics will fail at the onset or last for a long time.  Here is where buying from a reputable seller pays off.


[SIZE=+2]W_arranty_[/SIZE]​_Grizzly __warrants every product it sells for a period of 1 year to the original purchaser from the date of purchase. This warranty does not apply to defects due directly or indirectly to misuse, abuse, negligence, accidents, repairs, alterations or lack of maintenance. This is Grizzly's sole written warranty and any and all warranties that may be implied by law, including any merchantability or fitness, for any particular purpose, are hereby limited to the duration of this written warranty. We do not warrant or represent that the merchandise complies with the provisions of any law or acts unless the manufacturer so warrants. In no event shall Grizzly's liability under this warranty exceed the purchase price paid for the product and legal actions brought against Grizzly shall be tried in the State of Washington, County of Whatcom._
_We shall in no event be liable for death, injuries to persons or property or for incidental, contingent, special or consequential damages arising from the use of our products._
_To take advantage of this warranty please call our customer service department at 1-800-523-4777. Proof of purchase must accompany the merchandise. The manufacturers reserve the right to change specifications at any time because they constantly strive to achieve better quality equipment._
_We make every effort to ensure that the products in this catalog meet high quality and durability standards and we hope you never need to use this warranty._

So, if you have not   "_misuse, abuse, negligence, accidents, repairs, alterations or lack of maintenance"  _they should fix it.

Caster


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## great white (Feb 6, 2015)

Well, I guess a positive side was if it was going to break it's better it broke right away rather than a few months in or just after the warranty expired.

A few months in they could try and make the argument it was abused/misused and just after the warranty, well......


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## wrmiller (Feb 6, 2015)

great white said:


> Well, I guess a positive side was if it was going to break it's better it broke right away rather than a few months in or just after the warranty expired.
> 
> A few months in they could try and make the argument it was abused/misused and just after the warranty, well......



In my personal experiences with Griz I have not found your scenario to be the case. They even once sent me a part for a machine that was just a couple of months out of warranty. No questions asked.


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## great white (Feb 6, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> In my personal experiences with Griz I have not found your scenario to be the case. They even once sent me a part for a machine that was just a couple of months out of warranty. No questions asked.



I'm not saying they're a bad company in any way shape or form, just that something knackered right out of the box removes all doubt as to whether its the item at fault or the user.


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## wrmiller (Feb 6, 2015)

Good point. Kinda hard to blame the operator when it's dead on arrival.


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## Harv (Feb 10, 2015)

I spoke with Grizzly's Customer Service this past Monday afternoon as I had not heard from them since Thursday. They told me that it takes them 24-48 hours to make a decision to fix the type of problem I was having. I asked the lady on the phone to please find someone that could make a decision and she put me on hold for about 10 minutes. When she came back she told me that I had two options. 

The first was to send them another $700.00 for a replacement circuit board and emergency shutoff switch.  I told them that was an absolute no. The second option was to remove the circuit-board and return it to them and they would send me a replacement board.

I told the lady that I had paid for a working machine and that's exactly what I wanted or that I wanted a refund. After another 10 minutes or so on hold she said that they would cheerfully send me another machine. It would take 24-48 hours for me to receive a shipping confirmation from Fed-Ex and I was to box up the non-working machine and return it via Fed-Ex at Grizzly's expense. She also put in a hold order for another Mill for me. I received the e-mail conformation a few hours ago and I will phone Fed-Ex tomorrow morning. 

The Customer Service Lady also told me that as soon as I can arrange for Fed-Ex to make the pick-up that I can call Grizzly and that they will send my new machine out as soon as they can confirm that the first machine has been picked up. While I am not real happy about how this has went I feel that their  response to my situation was good and I appreciate the fact that I seem  to have nothing to worry about. I have put on hold the jobs that I have stacked up waiting for the new machine and I have discovered that waiting another week or two to get started is not killing me.


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## wrmiller (Feb 10, 2015)

Glad they're sending you a new mill. Other than the hold time it doesn't sound like it was too bad of an ordeal.


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## jim18655 (Feb 10, 2015)

My G0619 died a few months after I got it. It was one of the original mills with a 90VDC motor. It started to not restart after I hit the E-STOP or the safety shield moved (since disconnected). I called Grizzly and shortly had a new motor and control board. Different design since the new motor was 180 VDC. When i asked what to do with the old one i was told "whatever you want." The old motor is on my G4000 lathe. The drill chuck that came with the mill had too much run-out and was promptly replaced. Can't beat Grizzly service.


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## Harv (Feb 12, 2015)

I certainly am surprised, Fed Ex picked up the non-functioning Mill yesterday and I have a new one sitting in the shop ready to be unpacked as of right now!

11:30 AM.


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## tmarks11 (Feb 12, 2015)

Grizzly CS rocks! As always.

Unless, of course, you yell at them, in which case some folks have found themselves no longer a customer (true story... "we have chosen to end our relationship with you....UPS will be there to pickup the machinery tomorrow"...).


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## Harv (Feb 12, 2015)

tmarks11 said:


> Grizzly CS rocks! As always.
> 
> Unless, of course, you yell at them, in which case some folks have found themselves no longer a customer (true story... "we have chosen to end our relationship with you....UPS will be there to pickup the machinery tomorrow"...).



Well I told their CS person on the phone that I wasn't too pleased to get a non-functioning machine but that I have always found their CS to be excellent. I have to say that they came through on this order with flying colors. I am looking forward to getting the new Mill cleaned up and broke in tomorrow. I sprayed it down with a healthy dose of WD40 today and will let it set over night. WD40 cuts the Chinese mystery grease type substance they coat their machines in very well. This is my third Grizzly machine and I have gotten good service from the first two. This GO463 Mill looks like the perfect size fit for the chores that I have planned for it.


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## RVJimD (Feb 12, 2015)

Harv,

I know you and the tech would have spotted it right off but on my lathe it would pop the GFI outlet as soon as I turned it on.  I had to wire past the GFI to get it going.  Not sure if your mill has the same (or any) VFD as my lathe?  Hope it all gets sorted out for you as I am expecting a mill from them any day now...

Jim


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## Harv (Feb 12, 2015)

Thanks Jim. I have a new Mill sitting here right now that they sent as a replacement. It appears to be just fine and I am sure happy to have it!


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## RVJimD (Feb 12, 2015)

I thought I read close enough but I missed that you already had the replacement.  

I have been looking at the mills section on their web site.  I have the 0759 ordered.  

What are the differences and how did you pick the one you have?

glad things worked out well!

jim


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## Harv (Feb 12, 2015)

RVJimD said:


> I thought I read close enough but I missed that you already had the replacement.
> 
> I have been looking at the mills section on their web site.  I have the 0759 ordered.
> 
> ...



I like the 0759 and narrowed my choices down to it and the G0463. I chose the 0463 Mill that I did because it comes from the factory with belt drive (no plastic gear drive) and has a bit larger capacity (drill capacity up to 1"). Either Mill would serve my purposes just fine.


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## Harv (Feb 15, 2015)

Ugh, I haven't been able to get this new machine to run for more then a few seconds..


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## hermetic (Feb 15, 2015)

Unfortunately we are starting to get these problems in the UK now, I live just down the road from the electrical engineers where I served my apprenticeship (long long ago), so I am often in there, and I noticed a couple of chinese lathes and a mill on his "goods in for repair" pile. the story was the same, 2 or 3 years old, motors or circuit boards had quit, no replacement parts available, and the machine waiting for them to work out how they could fit a new motor /VFD combo  into a very small space!


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## wrmiller (Feb 15, 2015)

Harv said:


> Ugh, I haven't been able to get this new machine to run for more then a few seconds..



The new mill won't run?


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## Harv (Feb 15, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> The new mill won't run?



Yeah, the replacement mill turned on and ran for about 10 seconds then nothing. The power feed my wife installed works fine so at least the table moves. I am going to phone Grizzly Tech. Support tomorrow and see if they can help. If we cannot get the MILL (#2) to run then I quit and will insist upon a refund.  I guess Percisi0on Matthews will be my next best shot at a working Mill that is in my price range and small enough for me to move around my shop as needed.

I spent yesterday building a stand on a heavy duty Shop Fox base for it. My wife cleaned it up and added the table drive. Then we turned on the machine and watched it spin for a few seconds and I got all happy thinking about everything that I could get done...now it's kaput! Again.


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## Chip (Feb 15, 2015)

You should find out what happens when they test the first mill you returned, and if so, what was the result.


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## wrmiller (Feb 15, 2015)

Wow. I hope it's something like a loose wire or something.


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## Harv (Feb 15, 2015)

Chip said:


> You should find out what happens when they test the first mill you returned, and if so, what was the result.



Good idea.


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## Harv (Feb 15, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Wow. I hope it's something like a loose wire or something.



That would sure be nice. But with 2 Mills behaving the same way I am wondering if they received a bad shipment of them. Hopefully it is just me overlooking something obvious..


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## Harv (Feb 16, 2015)

I have been trying to keep a good attitude about this but at this point I am really disappointed with Grizzly. I went out to the shop this morning and the $300.00 table drive unit will now run to the right but not the left! Yesterday jokingly I said "well, at least the table drive works" but heh, now it doesn't.  I called Customer Service to ask for a refund and was told that I have to go through Tech. Support. 

I got a hold of Tech Support and had almost no luck at all. Their Tech. wasn't rude but he also was not very enthusiastic or helpful. I asked about the problems they are having with this model and he told me that I am the only one who has gotten a machine that will not operate. Yeah, just me, twice in a row, shrug. He said the first machine that I returned had a bad circuit board. 

As far as my getting a refund for the mill and table drive unit he said that I would have to talk to Customer Service. I said that is who I had called and after being on hold for 20 minutes I got him. He said oh well, call Customer Service in about 24 hours. I asked if things could go faster and back on hold I went. He then returned and said that I could call Customer Service in a couple of hours and maybe get an answer if I can return the two pieces of equipment or not. So I am going to spend the next few hours thinking that I will get a refund.

I really need a smaller mill and I am real touchy about ordering anything from Grizzly at this time. This is also the first time that I have gotten a hold of a Customer Service agent at Grizzly that seemed to not really give a ****.


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## Harv (Feb 16, 2015)

Well I am on the phone with Grizzly Customer Service and they are threating to charge me a 10% re-stocking fee, refusing to let me speak to a CS Supervisor and generally being rude about the entire situation.

Here is what I got from Grizzly now:

3-5 days to get the machine returned.
1-2 days for them to do an inspection to determine if they are going to charge me a 10% re-stocking fee.
3-5 days for a refund depending on their bank.

I am done with Grizzly.


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## brav65 (Feb 16, 2015)

I am sorry to hear you troubles with Grizzly. If you get your money back call Matt at Precision Mathews (Quality Machinetools) I have a PM25-MV and could not be happier. When I have a problem I call or e-mail Matt and he resolves the issue.  I think he is getting more PM-25's in March. Good luck.


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## Harv (Feb 16, 2015)

brav65 said:


> I am sorry to hear you troubles with Grizzly. If you get your money back call Matt at Precision Mathews (Quality Machinetools) I have a PM25-MV and could not be happier. When I have a problem I call or e-mail Matt and he resolves the issue.  I think he is getting more PM-25's in March. Good luck.



Thanks. Yeah, Precision Matthews who who I planned on calling. They have the small Mills with the belt drive already installed. I will have to wait for Grizzly to refund my money before I can get hold of them. Man, this is sure putting me in a bind!


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## brav65 (Feb 16, 2015)

On top of the brushless Moro and belt drive, Matt gives a three year warranty. He is a stand up guy  and a pleasure to do business with.


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## Harv (Feb 17, 2015)

brav65 said:


> On top of the brushless Moro and belt drive, Matt gives a three year warranty. He is a stand up guy  and a pleasure to do business with.



I put a deposit down today on a mill at Precision Matthews.  It looks to be just the same as a 704 but with a couple of nice improvements. 

I was/am sure surprised at how poorly I was treated by Grizzly's Customer Service.


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## brav65 (Feb 17, 2015)

The up side is you will have a good machine with the PM-25MV and Matt will take good care of you.


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## Harv (Feb 18, 2015)

The second inoperative mill and the malfunctioning table drive are packed up and ready to ship back. Fed Ex is supposed to be here by 5:00 PM today to pick up. Grizzly Customer Service told me the other day "if we can get this machine running when we get it back I will then be charged a 10% re-stocking fee". That really set me on edge. Why can't they just sell me a working product to begin with and avoid the wasted days of down time? Don't they have a Quality Control Department? Other companies don't ship nonworking machinery and expect the customer to troubleshoot it to get it running or suffer a 10% penalty.


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## wrmiller (Feb 18, 2015)

These things aren't toasters packed in Styrofoam. They are heavy and subject to shipping that most appliances aren't exposed to. What worked at the factory may get a connector jostled loose during shipping. And it is unreasonable to expect any reseller (which is all Griz is) of their size to 'function test' every machine that moves through their warehouses. Smaller guys like Matt can do it, but I would be pleasantly surprised if he uncrates every machine and tests every function. If I'm wrong Matt, I extend my sincerest apologies. 

And no, I seriously doubt that they (or even PM) has a Quality Control Department. That is for manufacturers, not resellers. If a machine show up in my garage that doesn't work, I will make every effort to troubleshoot the problem to root cause. If I can (I don't have schematics for the controller board for example). I'm not saying you did this, but if they open it up and discover a loose connection that when fixed makes the machine operable, I can see the restocking fee from their perspective. Not saying I would do this, but I'm not part of this scenario. 

You should have a better experience with PM and your new PM25.


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## Harv (Feb 18, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> These things aren't toasters packed in Styrofoam. They are heavy and subject to shipping that most appliances aren't exposed to. What worked at the factory may get a connector jostled loose during shipping. And it is unreasonable to expect any reseller (which is all Griz is) of their size to 'function test' every machine that moves through their warehouses. Smaller guys like Matt can do it, but I would be pleasantly surprised if he uncrates every machine and tests every function. If I'm wrong Matt, I extend my sincerest apologies.
> 
> And no, I seriously doubt that they (or even PM) has a Quality Control Department. That is for manufacturers, not resellers. If a machine show up in my garage that doesn't work, I will make every effort to troubleshoot the problem to root cause. If I can (I don't have schematics for the controller board for example). I'm not saying you did this, but if they open it up and discover a loose connection that when fixed makes the machine operable, I can see the restocking fee from their perspective. Not saying I would do this, but I'm not part of this scenario.
> 
> You should have a better experience with PM and your new PM25.



The way I see it is that I paid for a machine that works, not one that I have to fix before I can use it. I don't really care if I purchase the product from the factory that makes it or from a reseller I expect the product (any product I buy "new") to work as advertised for my money. I would not expect to fix a new truck before I could drive it.

Nowhere in the ad for the machine did I read anything about it being the customers responsibility to check and make sure (even though I did as most of us likely do) that they did their job properly as part of the purchase arraignment. If it was a loose wire I think that I would have spotted it. This machine did the same thing the previous machine did and the table drive was also defective.

As far as I am concerned their Customer Service Department (if they were any good) should have been apologizing for the time and money it cost me because they were unable to fulfill the business arrangement that they entered into. Not threatening to charge me extra because they shipped defective merchandise. Maybe an apology and a 5% to 10% off coupon for my next purchase or something along those lines but it seems that Grizzly has gotten so big that they are thinking that a person owes them something for them doing business with them.


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## wrmiller (Feb 18, 2015)

Actually, forget the next purchase, I would be asking for a partial refund to cover my troubleshooting time on their machine. Wasn't inferring you missed a loose wire, that was just an example that came to mind. It sounds like they have some serious issues with this machine. Wouldn't be the first time though...


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## Harv (Feb 18, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Actually, forget the next purchase, I would be asking for a partial refund to cover my troubleshooting time on their machine. Wasn't inferring you missed a loose wire, that was just an example that came to mind. It sounds like they have some serious issues with this machine. Wouldn't be the first time though...



I wasn't thinking that you were implying anything except posting you're thoughts on the matter. I always find your posts of good interest and am glad that you take the time. I respect you're experience.

I am cutting some threads and my shop is out of stock on 1/2x20 nuts, I gotta go to the hardware store


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## coolidge (Feb 19, 2015)

Okay I could see two defective mills in a row but also two defective power feeds that's some very long odds, cancel any plans you have to visit Vegas.


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## Harv (Feb 19, 2015)

coolidge said:


> Okay I could see two defective mills in a row but also two defective power feeds that's some very long odds, cancel any plans you have to visit Vegas.



Only one defective power feed.


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## Sitting on Blocks Racing (Feb 20, 2015)

My experience with Grizzly's customer service was excellent.   Direct following ups (they call me and emailed me several times to update me where my replacement parts were)
Not saying you weren't polite in your discussions but could that be a factor here?


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## Harv (Feb 20, 2015)

Sitting on Blocks Racing said:


> My experience with Grizzly's customer service was excellent.   Direct following ups (they call me and emailed me several times to update me where my replacement parts were)
> Not saying you weren't polite in your discussions but could that be a factor here?



I'm always professional when doing business.  The Customer Service Rep. didn't like the fact that I insisted on my money back with the second malfunctioning mill. With both mills failing in the exact same manner I felt that I would not be able to trust the electronics on the second machine even if they wanted to send me some components or a circuit board to replace. If that worked and the machine started running...how long would it run was not something I wanted to find out at this point, especially after the table drive motor failed as well. I think they must be dealing with a bad batch of electronics or something of that nature ( of course I do not know for certain).

I am still disappointed because I put a lot of thought into purchasing that particular model  and felt that it would serve my purposes very effectively. I had also taken the time and money to build a stand for it so sending the mill back was not something that I am real pleased with having to do. My current mill tooling is MT3 so I also have purchased a few hundred dollars worth of R8 tooling but that will still be used although at the time I wasn't sure what was going to happen next.

Two people I made commitments too also have been put behind schedule because of these two bad machines and that is not their fault.  This has soured me on dealing with Grizzly which was a company that I thought very highly of a few weeks ago.  At this time I do not want to purchase anything from them but I am hoping my feelings on that will change. I already own some Grizzly equipment that is performing fine but I am now worried about the electronics when I hit the start button on my lathe. I do not think that I will ever purchase another Grizzly machine but I may purchasing some tooling or supplies from them in the future but Grizzly will certainly not be the first supplier that I check for my needs. They used to be.

I called Customer Service yesterday and the CS agent I dealt with concerning Fed Ex picking up the second defective mill was pleasant to deal with. I may just have gotten a hold of an Agent that wasn't very experienced or just not good at her job I do not know. I do know that I was very surprised when they started trying to blame me for the malfunctioning machine and stating that they were considering charging me a 10% fee. I still won't know how this situation is going to play out until this coming week.


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## darkzero (Feb 20, 2015)

Not saying it's the case with Grizzly but I have dealt with a number of vendors with great service for years only to find out they are the complete opposite when it comes to returns. MSC & Enco have never did me wrong when I needed to make a return. Enco even offered me a discount on a damaged item I instead of returning it, even after I stated I wanted a refund they were totally cool with that. 

Grizzly seems to have a pretty good size CSR department, as you have experienced, sometimes it's just a matter of the CSR individual you had to deal with. At my old work, we had a good size CSR dept, many of them were just b*tches, they had bad attitudes & treated customers like crap whenever it came down to "issues".


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## coolidge (Feb 21, 2015)

I have purchased multiple machines from Grizzly and encountered a few issues, their customer service always did right by me. I was careful not to take out my frustrations on the customer service rep, it wasn't their fault and Grizzly didn't ship me something with an issue intentionally trying to annoy me. I have found that if you can keep your cool and be nice to people they will return in kind.


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## Harv (Feb 21, 2015)

coolidge said:


> I have purchased multiple machines from Grizzly and encountered a few issues, their customer service always did right by me. I was careful not to take out my frustrations on the customer service rep, it wasn't their fault and Grizzly didn't ship me something with an issue intentionally trying to annoy me. I have found that if you can keep your cool and be nice to people they will return in kind.



Not always but often, yes.

I too have purchased several machines from Grizzly. 

If the Service Rep. is well trained and good at their job then the customer's demeanor shouldn't make any difference.


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## coolidge (Feb 21, 2015)

Harv said:


> Not always but often, yes.



^^^ truth on occasion you come across a genuine jackass impervious to being nice, then the raptor claws come out.


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## Harv (Feb 21, 2015)

coolidge said:


> ^^^ truth on occasion you come across a genuine jackass impervious to being nice, then the raptor claws come out.



LOL, geez, you're a heck of a nice guy!


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## coolidge (Feb 21, 2015)

Harv said:


> LOL, geez, you're a heck of a nice guy!



Don't get me started on the RAM Truck dealer parts counter guy  he got a dose.


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## Harv (Feb 21, 2015)

coolidge said:


> Don't get me started on the RAM Truck dealer parts counter guy  he got a dose.



Well sober up and be nice.


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## Harv (Feb 23, 2015)

I am still waiting to hear if and how much of my money  that Grizzly has tied up for a couple of weeks will be returned. I'll let you guys know how this ends, hopefully soon.


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## JimDawson (Feb 23, 2015)

I'd be temped to drive up to Bellingham and sit on their door step until they take care of you.


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## Harv (Feb 23, 2015)

I just received an e-mail from Grizzly informing me that they are charging me $122.00 for shipping me two bad machines. The approximately $2000.00 balance is not yet put back into my bank account.


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## roadie33 (Feb 23, 2015)

How can they do that?
I  would call or go see the Attorney General about them sending you 2 defective machines that would not run. Then trying to charge you a restocking fee after they had to repair them to make them functional.
I see that they said the first one had a bad board. Not something you could have even found let alone fix.
What was the problem with the 2nd one?
Have they even said?


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## Harv (Feb 23, 2015)

roadie33 said:


> How can they do that?
> I  would call or go see the Attorney General about them sending you 2 defective machines that would not run. Then trying to charge you a restocking fee after they had to repair them to make them functional.
> I see that they said the first one had a bad board. Not something you could have even found let alone fix.
> What was the problem with the 2nd one?
> Have they even said?



I asked them that. They would not transfer me to their Tech. Department they just said that their was a note on the file that said that "they got the second machine running". I tried everything to get it to run when I had it. Breakers, different cords that worked fine on everything else other then the machine Grizzly sent to me. The second Mill was defective in the exact same way as the first machine that they sent. It ran for a few seconds and would not run again no matter what I tried. I took readings on the circuit board with a volt meter on the first machine when I had their Tech. guy on the phone and he told me the readings on the board's terminals were wrong and to return the Mill. I took readings at the same points that the Tech. guy asked me on the second machine and they were the same as the first machine. The first two terminals I read at 120 volts ac. The second two terminals just read gibberish which their Tech. said was wrong and to return the machine.  The second machines readings were the exact same as the first. 122 volts ac, the second set of terminals was reading gibberish.

The problems with Customer Service started when I asked for my money back instead of a third machine. That is when their Customer Service Agent (name not posted) got rude and started loud talking on the phone.


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## Harv (Feb 24, 2015)

I received an electronic deposit overnight minus $122.00 they deducted for shipping two defective machines and a defective table drive unit. I was not rude to any of the people I dealt with over the phone at Grizzly even though they flat out took my money for what I consider no good reason. Especially so when the Customer Service agent told me that I could not speak to the Tech. Support concerning the second defective machine and that they would just go by the note on the file. My final conclusion of this mess is that I upset them when I asked for my money to be returned rather then accepting another mill (the third). I sent two emails to their CS department  last week describing how I was treated on the telephone and I have not received a reply.


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## RJSakowski (Feb 24, 2015)

If you paid by credit card, you should be able to have the charges reversed.  Grizzly might complain about it but with all your documentation, I don't think they would get very far.  It is a shame that you have had this experience.  I have bought a number of machines and other high ticket items from them and have had good customer service for the relatively minor defects encountered.  From their standpoint, they have lost a lot of money one this bad deal so one can understand their reluctance to make things right.  It is the customer service part of their organization that should be pushing in your favor as it is their reputation which is at stake.
A few years ago, our company bought a 4" x 6" bandsaw from Enco.  We were pleasantly surprised when we unpacked it to find an MSC label on it.  We plugged it in and nothing happened.  When we dug into it, we found that the two wires to the switch were connected to the same terminal.  There definitely wasn't any final QC inspection there.  We fixed the problem and I called Enco.  They gave us a 10% discount when we next ordered.  That was customer service.


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## Harv (Mar 2, 2015)

We just now got off of the phone with Grizzly Customer Service (again). The beginning of last week we had spoken to Grizzly CS concerning the balance of $122.00 that Grizzly still has possession of. When we phoned in last week the same CS Agent that had been rude with us personally answered the call and was just as sweet as could be. We asked to be transferred to a Customer Service Supervisor. The CS asked us "Why we wanted to speak with someone other then her?". We told her that we had dealt with her previously and we preferred to conduct our business with a Customer Service Supervisor. She then transferred us to a Supervisor.

The new person that we spoke to said that she was a Customer Service Supervisor named *####. * #### told us what an exceptionally nice person the CS Agent that we asked not to deal with was. Then we spoke to her concerning our business. #### gave us the run around for a few minutes then told us that *they (Tech. Department) had gotten the second Mill that we returned running and that they kept it running for awhile and said that the second Mill was fine. *We asked her to transfer us to the Technical Department that looked into our returned Mill and she said *"That wasn't necessary and that we would just go by the note of the Mill being non-defective that the Technical Department had put on our file*". After a few more minutes of discussion she told us that "she would enter a refund order from Grizzly to Pay Pal for the entire balance of ($122.00) what they had deducted from our original payment and that it would take up to 48 hours to be processed". This was the beginning of last week.

Pay Pal nor us received any word since then of the corrective action. We called Customer Service back a little while ago to inquire concerning what the hold up was. We were told by the Lady answering the phone that she is the Customer Service Manager and that we just happened to get her as she was helping out due to the large volume of incoming calls. We discussed our order with her and at first she was a bit unconcerned and told us that the proper amount had already been refunded. *As we got into what had happened previously concerning our "Activity Number" on our order we found out a bit more information. One bit of information was that the second Mill that we had returned was also found to have a defective circuit board and that it was noted right there on our file!* The next bit of information that we received is that there is no Customer Service Agent or Supervisor with the name that we were given of the person that we were transferred too. She then told us that her opinion was that we had been transferred to a man in the office with a similar name, we told her "no, that was not the case and that we were tarnsfered to a women named ####. *We also found out that there was NO order on our file that refunded our $122.00 thru Pay Pal. *

Now we our told by the Lady we spoke to just awhile ago who says that she is the *"Customer Service Office Manager"* that she needs 48 hours to look into this.


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## tmarks11 (Mar 2, 2015)

Harv said:


> The next bit of information that we received is that there is no Customer Service Agent or Supervisor with the name that we were given of the person that we were transferred too.....Now we our told by the Lady we spoke to just awhile ago who says that she is the *"Customer Service Office Manager"* that she needs 48 hours to look into this.


Wow!  That sounds suspiciously like the first CS rep dumped you on a sympathetic co-worker masquerading as a CS Supervisor.  Hopefully the Office Manager will get this sorted out and fixed.

Definitely not the story usually heard from those dealing with Grizzly CS.


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## Harv (Mar 2, 2015)

tmarks11 said:


> Wow!  That sounds suspiciously like the first CS rep dumped you on a sympathetic co-worker masquerading as a CS Supervisor.  Hopefully the Office Manager will get this sorted out and fixed.
> 
> Definitely not the story usually heard from those dealing with Grizzly CS.



That's what it looks like. What I really don't like is being told that the Tech. Department was able to run the second Mill (and being denied a chance talk to the Tech. Dept. concerning that machine) when there was a note already on my file saying that the second machine also had a defective circuit board!


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## Harv (Mar 3, 2015)

coolidge said:


> ^^^ truth on occasion you come across a genuine jackass impervious to being nice, then the raptor claws come out.



Yeah, because I said "that I have noticed that if one treats a person politely they* often but not always* will treat you in kind".

The Customer Service Manager also said "that she cannot say much about their unprofessional and deceitful Customer Service Agent that I had to deal with...other then that CS Agent is now being closely monitored".


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## Harv (Mar 3, 2015)

Anyway after one month of receiving two different Mills with defective circuit boards and a table drive unit that would only run forward but not reverse Grizzly and I have settled this matter. The office manager at Grizzly's Customer Service just telephoned us and said that we can expect a full refund of the balance of $122.00 overt the next few days. At this point I have no reason to think that is not true. This odd mess of ordering a Mill seems to have finally been settled.


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## tmarks11 (Mar 3, 2015)

It is too bad that your first encounter with Grizzly was not a positive experience.  I have been buying from them since 2004, and have four or five Grizzly machines, and have always had good experiences.

If you don't want to deal with Grizzly again, you have some other choices.  The Weis BF20 style of mill is about the size of the Sieg X3 that you bought (tried to buy) from Grizzly.  Most owners have reported they found the BX20 series to be superior to the X3 series in fit and finish.

Grizzly's version of this is the G0704.  But you can buy one from Matt at Precision Matthews, and it is better than the Grizzly model because it has a belt drive (of course, it also costs more):

http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-MV-BenchMills.html

http://www.g0704.com/index.html

You can (or used to be able to) buy this style from PenntoolCo, and maybe WTTool.  Personally, I would go toward Precision Matthews.


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## Harv (Mar 3, 2015)

tmarks11 said:


> It is too bad that your first encounter with Grizzly was not a positive experience.  I have been buying from them since 2004, and have four or five Grizzly machines, and have always had good experiences.
> 
> If you don't want to deal with Grizzly again, you have some other choices.  The Weis BF20 style of mill is about the size of the Sieg X3 that you bought (tried to buy) from Grizzly.  Most owners have reported they found the BX20 series to be superior to the X3 series in fit and finish.
> 
> ...



Hi Marks

This Mill was the third machine I have purchased (tried to purchase) from Grizzly and I have also purchased tools, tooling and other equipment from them over the past several years. Up until this transaction I was a big fan of Grizzly and I am real disappointed to have had this experience with their equipment. I think that it is a real shame that their Customer Service Department did not try to make this right rather then trying to point the blame at me for the defective machines. I was also very surprised by that , and I have told many people what a great outfit Grizzly is. The problems with Customer Service started when I asked for a refund rather then another replacement machine and it did not help to get an inexperienced or just plain bad CS Agent on the phone. I am pleased that their Technical Department inspected both of the returned Mills and saw that they were both defective (circuit boards, both machines) and  made the CS Department stop trying to blame me. I am looking forward to the day when I feel comfortable enough to get past this very poor experience and buy from Grizzly again (I dunno). I know for a fact that this is not the "Norm" for Grizzly sales and service. I doubt that I will ever feel comfortable enough to order another machine from them but maybe tools and tooling in the future. I now also worry every time I hit the start button on my electronic variable speed Grizzly lathe.

I ordered a Mill from Matt at Precision Matthews a few weeks ago and have put down a deposit. I am expecting it about mid-April give or take a bit. It is what Grizzly designates the G704 but Matt's machine (as you know) already has the belt drive and it comes with a brushless motor already installed. I am way behind schedule now and I am really looking forward to getting the new Mill. Thanks for you're posts concerning these issues.


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## Harv (Mar 8, 2015)

Still no word on the refund of $122.00 I was told last Tuesday I would receive. I spoke with Pay Pal yesterday and they said that they have no refund information in the queue at this time. I will phone Grizzly Customer Service again tomorrow. I know for a fact that if they were very concerned about this issue that there has been enough time to have issued a refund. It only takes them 48 hours if they choose to go that route. ~shrug~


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## Harv (Mar 11, 2015)

I spoke on the phone with Grizzly Customer Service this past Monday. They told me to give it another couple of days waiting for my refund. There is no refund issued to Pay Pal as of yet according to Pay Pal's CS Department. I phoned Grizzly customer Service about 9:00 AM this morning and was told that the CS Agent would contact the person in Missouri that was in charge of my refund. After a few minutes on "hold" the CS Agent came back to the phone and said that the guy in Missouri told her that he would release the funds today and to give it a few more days for my refund to reach Pay Pal. This whole situation with Grizzly has turned out to be pretty much a cartoon!


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