# (Newbie time) Any way to get a collet chuck on a 1030V?



## PrettyHateMachining (Oct 31, 2017)

Hi guys,

Complete newbie here, I've had my lathe for 3 weeks and have never used or even seen one prior to that. I've been having fun learning and making stuff and I've seen suggestions to get a collet chuck to hold smaller stock and possibly endmills (for some poverty milling) but after a bunch of research I'm even more confused.

It seems the spindle taper is MT4 and I've seen MT4 ER32/ER40 collet holders, but how are the collet holders held into the machine? Or is their purpose not what I'm thinking and these are for milling machines or something?

I also saw that Shars sells an actual 5C collet chuck: http://www.shars.com/5-5c-collet-chuck but it looks like this is just a plain chuck, it would need some sort of adapter plate or backing plate to mount to the 1030V I assume? However I can't find any information as to what mounting plate I need. Hell I can't even find what chuck mounting mechanism this thing actually uses, it just says "Quick change" and things like that.

Long story short, can someone point me in the right direction as far as what I need to buy for my purposes mentioned in the first paragraph above?

Thanks!
Adam


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## dlane (Oct 31, 2017)

Draw bar, poverty milling ?.


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## Z2V (Oct 31, 2017)

Adam
Maybe this will help


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## mikey (Nov 1, 2017)

Your lathe uses the three stud mount with the locking ring. You might ask PM if they sell a backing plate for the spindle or perhaps LMS might have one. Then I suggest you mount an ER-40 chuck to it so you can pass stuff through the spindle. MT mounted chucks do not allow for this capability and is, for me, a deal breaker.


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## Glenn Brooks (Nov 1, 2017)

Hi Adam,  Aha, I see the sickness is starting early with you.  Welcome to the happy world of "Tooling"!

Or more precisely, buying tooling - a life long journey.   In order to hold a collet into the lathe spindle, you will typically need a draw bar, such as a Jeff showed, or perhaps as Mikey said, a backing  plate with a locking ring.  And yep, collets are used both in lathe spindles and mills. Although in a lathe, they mostly hold the work, but in a mill they hold the cutter.

Collets are a good first tooling choice for a lathe.  As you surmised, they enable you to hold smaller work than can be grasped with the lathe chuck - unless like I did, you buy a smaller chuck, and a second, smaller lathe.  But, not to worry,  these things will come in due course.

Glenn


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## MSD0 (Nov 3, 2017)

I bought a 5c collet chuck and matching backing plate for my 1127vf-lb from Matt. It’s a fuerda (gator?) set tru type and works well.


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## shooter123456 (Nov 3, 2017)

You can make one relatively easily. I am working on one for my 1030v at the moment. Its just a simple back plate that you bolt a piece of steel to, then cut the ER taper while it is mounted. It should have almost no run out if the taper is cut while mounted and the way you mount it is repeatable. You can also build in some set screws to true it up. 

If you are interested, I can provide some pictures and models.


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## PrettyHateMachining (Nov 7, 2017)

Thanks for the replies guys, somehow I didn't get notification that I had any so I'm just seeing this. Thanks for the explanations and advice, I did buy the backing plate from Matt and just waiting on that now.



MSD0 said:


> I bought a 5c collet chuck and matching backing plate for my 1127vf-lb from Matt. It’s a fuerda (gator?) set tru type and works well.



Would you mind sending me the link to those? Are you saying you bought BOTH the chuck and the backing plate from Matt? That's funny because when I emailed their sales they had no suggestions when I asked about a collet chuck. Must have gotten the wrong person that day.


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## mksj (Nov 7, 2017)

The 1127vf-lb uses a D1-4 back plate, yours uses a 3 bolt back plate so a different animal. That is why no one sells a bolt on collet chuck for your machine. My recommendation is to make or buy an extra thick back plate and cut the step down for the Shar's 5C chuck linked above. That is not a plain back chuck, it is a set-tru type for zeroing out the TIR. The alternative is to get a plain back chuck, mount it to a back plate with some wiggle room and you can lightly tap it to reduce the TIR and then cinch it down to the back plate. CDCO sells complete sets of 5C collets at a decent price, probably get a 1/64th set.


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## ttabbal (Nov 7, 2017)

Out of curiosity, why would one choose the various collet types over the others? I see why you want collets, just not sure why you want 5C/ER40/etc..


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## shooter123456 (Nov 7, 2017)

ttabbal said:


> Out of curiosity, why would one choose the various collet types over the others? I see why you want collets, just not sure why you want 5C/ER40/etc..


That decision will be made by a number of different factors such as:
-Intended use
-Cost
-Clamping range
-Clamping machanism
-Size requirements

ER collets (if I am not mistaken, and I could be) were originally made as a tool holding solution rather than a work holding solution.  They also clamp at the front and back of the collet which means if you put something in only half way or less, the back will clamp tighter than the front which can lead to poor support and distortion.  

5C collets (note that there are also 4C, 3C, 2C etc) are work holding collets and typically have an external thread.  That allows better access to the front of the work due to the lack of a clamping nut.  They can also be easier to use because of the thread.  They can use a mechanism similar to the scroll of a 3 jaw chuck to tighten and release the collet.  You can also clamp small portions of the part securely.  However, they also need to be keyed which can cause problems in certain applications.  It is also possible to use a pneumatic chuck to secure them where thats not possible with an ER collet.  ER collets can clamp a larger range than the 5Cs which means in theory, you need fewer ER collets to get a full clamping range (though in practice, trying to clamp too far down doesn't work out as well.

There is also cost and space requirements when picking size.  You aren't going to want to stick an ER50 collet on an ISO20 tool holder, but you also don't want to stick an ER8 collet on a 14x40 lathe spindle (I suppose you could, but I don't see why you would).  With increased size also comes increased cost.  Maritool sells ER20s for $19 vs ER50s at $42. 

So for work holding, a 5C collet is probably the better way to go, but I know for a fact that ER collets will do the job just fine, especially for hobby work.


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## mikey (Nov 7, 2017)

There are numerous threads about collet systems on HM - I suggest you search and read.

I also suggest to you that you don't need a collet system for working on the lathe. Nice to have, and I have several types and sizes, but I would learn to use a 3 and 4 jaw chuck first. This will give you time to learn about collet systems and choose wisely.

Oh, just to clarify one point. An ER collet grabs along its full length, not just the front and back. It requires 3/4" of the work to be inside the collet, whereas the 5c requires about 1/2" - not much difference.


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## PrettyHateMachining (Nov 7, 2017)

Thank you for the explanations. I do a lot of work with smaller material, .75 to 1.25" typically so the collets seemed like a great idea. However after looking around it looks like I can only do 1.125" with my likely collet choices so it's something I'll have to ponder. The main thing that intrigued me was quick setup, time is a major factor for me so the less time I can spend setting something up the more work I can actually do.


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## mikey (Nov 7, 2017)

PrettyHateMachining said:


> The main thing that intrigued me was quick setup, time is a major factor for me so the less time I can spend setting something up the more work I can actually do.



If you are doing multiples of nominal stock then a collet system is definitely the way to go. However, most of us hobby types aren't into production. We do one off pieces, often of non-nominal sizes. If speed is your main criteria, its hard to beat a 3 jaw chuck; on the first turning, the work piece will be as accurate as your spindle. If you need accuracy on an already finished piece then a 4 jaw independent or a collet chuck is what you need, and the collet chuck will be faster in this situation.

Sorry if I appear to be trying to steer you away from collets. I'm actually not and I like my ER collet chucks. However, for new guys who are just learning to use the lathe I think there are other kinds of tooling that are more of a priority. A good boring bar set up, decent micrometers and indicators, a complete set of drills (wire, letter and fractional) and other basic tooling are more useful to you right now than a collet chuck, in my opinion. Gotta' admit, they are cool but a must-have, maybe not so much.


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## PrettyHateMachining (Nov 7, 2017)

I'm catching what you're saying. I don't do production anything, I'm a metal artist and weaponsmith so everything I make is one-off basically. I think you're right. I just need to get better at the 3jaw which I really struggled with initially. But that little roller bearing centering tool I made (I think at your suggestion in fact) is probably going to be a godsend. I think I need some more "seat time" before I start blowing wads of cash everywhere.


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## mksj (Nov 7, 2017)

I also do a lot of repeat work with small materials, often I have 6-8 turning steps with the same piece going in/out of the collet, for me collets are a huge time saver. I use a speed handle key on my 5C chuck, so changing collets is quite quick also. On holding power, I clamp down on round as short as 0.25" and use a through the collet stop system.  Collets also work very well on threads and material that is easily damaged in chucks. I switched to collets after having short stock twist in a 3J and it is very difficult to not have it twist in the chuck.  Every time I get lazy an do not want to pull my 3J or 4J off the lathe to do some smalls with my collets, I get bitten and mess up the piece.

On the matter of 5C vs. ER40, I have both, I find the 5C faster for what I do. I really do not like having to use two wrenches to tighten or loosen the ER nut, a 5C is about 10 seconds to loosen and tighten a piece for a different prep. Also for very short material that I turn, the ER would not work.

Last but not least, it can save your hands and knuckles. I do polishing right up to the collet, and often do turning very close to the chuck. My eyesight is going and I often have to get up close for small stuff. Doing that with my 4J 8" chuck at speed is scary stuff.  If you get a 5C set-tru chuck or a plain back, you can always use it down the line on another lathe, and just change out the back plate. I think it is a good inverstment if you do a lot of small stock. On bigger lathes, a collet closer system may be more ideal for doing a lot of parts.


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## MSD0 (Nov 12, 2017)

PrettyHateMachining said:


> Thanks for the replies guys, somehow I didn't get notification that I had any so I'm just seeing this. Thanks for the explanations and advice, I did buy the backing plate from Matt and just waiting on that now.
> 
> 
> 
> Would you mind sending me the link to those? Are you saying you bought BOTH the chuck and the backing plate from Matt? That's funny because when I emailed their sales they had no suggestions when I asked about a collet chuck. Must have gotten the wrong person that day.


I bought the collet chuck along with the lathe a couple of years ago. My 1127 has the older 3 bolt mount which required a custom back plate. It doesn’t look like he has them on the new website, but I think it’s this one: https://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/ga5cadtruset.html


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