# The Beast Rises: Introducing the Mighty Monarch!



## P_Racette (Feb 10, 2019)

Hello all,

Having made my introductory post in the appropriate forum, I figured I would wander over here and start something. 

Long story short: I bought an old Monarch lathe, model and specifics unknown. She's a beast though - about 14 feet long and easy to weight in "tons". The previous owner said something about "being in the machine shop of a US Navy warship" but I would take that with a grain of salt, since I have absolutely no providence for it - it's just what _he_ heard from the person that sold it to him. 

Anyhoo, I see myself as having at least a year or three of restoration work in front of me, as well as heavens-only-knows how many thousands of dollars of tooling to buy, hours to invest, etc. On the plus side, I won't be able to pick up a drug habit as I don't think I'll have the time or money. 

So, step one: intro pictures! There are pics from the drop off, with the legs on. We had to take them off to move her into the garage, that's why the later pics are lower. I'm unsure of the model, I can't find the data plate that should be there. Of course, it could just be under a layer of crud!


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## Bob Korves (Feb 10, 2019)

Looks pretty good for it's age!  Don't forget to send up updates regularly.  When in doubt, DOUBT!  And then ask for help and advice...  Welcome to H-M!


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## ThinWoodsman (Feb 10, 2019)

Can't wait to see it in bright yellow paint!


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## mikey (Feb 10, 2019)

Welcome to HM!

I think your tailstock weighs as much as my whole lathe!!


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## john.k (Feb 11, 2019)

Was on a warship?.......the Great White Fleet .maybe.


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## ConValSam (Feb 11, 2019)

Welcome!

Never before seen a belt drive Monarch.  Intrigued.  Followed.


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## BROCKWOOD (Feb 11, 2019)

I see a Monarch in my future - though I'm hoping for a WWII era version. Looks good & looking forward to your updates! Welcome.


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## Splat (Feb 11, 2019)

Wow! She's a beaut! She's gonna be a knockout when she gets cleaned up. How's the bed look?


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## P_Racette (Feb 11, 2019)

Splat said:


> How's the bed look?



Other than a nice, even... um... "patina" of iron oxide it's remarkably nice. No pitting or scaling or anything bad like that.


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## Splat (Feb 11, 2019)

Sweet!  Good for you!


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## eugene13 (Feb 11, 2019)

P_Racette said:


> I won't be able to pick up a drug habit


I think you're already hooked, in a good way, good luck on your project.


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## P_Racette (Feb 13, 2019)

So, a quick update on the Lathe project:

I've stopped by the local hardware store (that is already _quite_ familiar with me) and picked up a few things to find out what works best for this particular application. I'm going to try a few different things in a few different places to see how things work out. Here's the overall gist of things:


I got a small bottle of Naval Jelly (rust converter, not "personal lubricant" for sailors)
Denatured alcohol
Good 'ole 3-in-1 oil
Moly-Graph grease

My plan is to use the denatured alcohol to cut through the years of accumulated "gunk" and strip off the loose paint, etc. Naval jelly will then be applied to any areas with particularly tough rust and allowed to sit for a day or two, then be wiped off. The 3-in-1 will be used to aid in reassembly and general lube, while the moly grease will bear the brunt of the heavy lubrication work. I spent a little extra on the moly grease - one of the first times I've NOT "cheaped out" on something like this. 

All that said, I have a few questions that I hope some of you will take the time to consider. First up, should I keep this going in a single thread, or break it out into the general section of the forums and not the "Monarch" subforum? Next, do you guys (and gals) care about these kinds of updates, or am I just burning electrons? Finally, I'm in the process of setting up a YouTube account to record this rebuild. Would that be of interest here?


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## FOMOGO (Feb 13, 2019)

Post away, we never get tired of looking at pics of vintage iron, or pretty much anything else for that matter. Probably best to post the rehab on the Monarch forum. That way it will be readilly available to others looking for info on similar machines. Congrats on your purchase. Mike


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## WCraig (Feb 13, 2019)

I'm not a fan of Naval Jelly (phosphoric acid).  It leaves the metal with a dull gray finish that seems weathered, to me.  You have a big job ahead of you so you might want to experiment with a couple of the rust removers.  I had good luck with Metal Rescue.  You may find some stuff works better on cast iron and others on steel, for instance.

BTW, for flat surfaces a razor scraper can be a good approach.  Sometimes, the rust is just a bloom on the surface and scrapes away with little effort.  After a wipe down with WD-40 or mineral spirits, you may be ready to oil and move on.

Craig


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## Cal Haines (Feb 13, 2019)

Please keep posting here.

Mineral spirits and fine steel wool works very well for removing light surface rust. I would start there and save heavy duty rust removers for places that really need it. For any parts that are small enough, Evapo-rust works very well. You can get it at HF, Walmart and big box hardware stores. My personal favorite for removing years of grease and oil is Krud Kutter, but there are similar products that work as well.


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## Karl_T (Feb 13, 2019)

P_Racette said:


> ...
> 
> All that said, I have a few questions that I hope some of you will take the time to consider. First up, should I keep this going in a single thread, or break it out into the general section of the forums and not the "Monarch" subforum? Next, do you guys (and gals) care about these kinds of updates, or am I just burning electrons? Finally, I'm in the process of setting up a YouTube account to record this rebuild. Would that be of interest here?



One thread right here is just fine. Yep, I won't clutter your thread with "NICE job..." but I do enjoy seeing other's projects. Link the you tube videos here if you do any.

BTW, do you have babit spindle bearings on that old gal? it looks like it might.   I've got a LeBlond of the same vintage that could use a babit bearing rebuild. Too bad I didn't watch gramps closer 50 years ago, he could do this in an hour.  Undo these four bolts, what do you see?


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## middle.road (Feb 13, 2019)

BROCKWOOD said:


> I see a Monarch in my future - though I'm hoping for a WWII era version. Looks good & looking forward to your updates! Welcome.


Here's your Monarch sir.   A bit of a haul from Shreveport perhaps.
https://www.furrow.com/event/absolute-metalworking-equipment-auction-4/ 
(should be the main picture that comes up...)


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## NCjeeper (Feb 13, 2019)

Cool old iron. I have a 1964 16x54 Monarch.


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## P_Racette (Feb 14, 2019)

Karl_T said:


> BTW, do you have babit spindle bearings on that old gal?




Disclaimer: I'm a _computer geek_. I had to Google "Babbitt bearing" to understand - well, I hope I understand lol. I'm hear to learn, so _please_ forgive me if I misunderstood your question.

Now, to answer: Yes, I'm pretty sure she does have babbitt bearings, but they're a little scored up. I went out and pulled off the panel that (I think) you were referring to and snapped some pics. Forgive the rushed nature, I had to leave the garage door open to get enough light for decent pictures and the wind was blowing stuff around. There are a few angles, those streaks aren't just grease - those are scratches. I hit them with some mineral spirits and can feel them, so I'm guessing a previous owner ran her for a bit without lubricating her. 

Brass shim stock is a _PAIN_ when it's windy, by the way.


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## Karl_T (Feb 14, 2019)

Yes, you got babbit bearings. As long as you have a supply of oil they work great.  The "X" pattern you see in the top cap is your oil grooves. This should be cleaned. Looks like you already have. My machine has a oil cup that holds maybe 1/2 cup of oil on top the bearing. these need to be filled every day you run. I'm guessing your oil cups got broke off.

Now my bearings are shot, but I've used the lathe anyway for only 30 years now  

If you want to check them, get this:








						Plastigage Engine Bearing Clearance Gauge Indicator Plasti Guage
					

Plastigage Engine Bearing Clearance Gauge Indicator Plastigage clearance indicator used for checking engine bearing clearances. Simply place on the rod or main bearing, torque to spec, then check the filament to the chart on the packaging. Very easy and




					zcardepot.com
				




Pretty low priority for you right now. get it running first.

if you are bored some time, google how to re - babbit a bearing. here's a google search with videos to watch.


			babbitt bearing techniques - Google Search


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## P_Racette (Feb 14, 2019)

Thank you for that insight Karl! I was pretty sure the "X" pattern was for the lube to flow through, but I was concerned about the amount of straight-line scratching - but I'm not going to doing production work so I'm not overly concerned!

As to the fitting: It _looks_ like a grease nipple to me, and there appears to be grease residue in the oil grooves. I'm guessing this was a later addition and I should keep an eye out for oil cups that will fit?

Thanks!

P.S. Thanks for the info on babbitt casting, I built a foundry so if worse comes to worse, I CAN make new ones.


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## Karl_T (Feb 14, 2019)

here's what my oil cups look like


			oil drip cup with a sight glass. - Google Search
		


Bet the grease zerk was a short cut when the above broke.


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## P_Racette (Feb 14, 2019)

Aaaah, I see - that makes a lot of sense now. I think I'll rebuild the old girl with the oil drip, since I have access to things like Amazon that previous owners didn't. But I think I'm still going to focus on getting garage space cleared and some 240 lines run at the moment - I'll put the oil glasses on my Christmas list!


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## NCjeeper (Feb 14, 2019)

You can contact Monarch. They still have parts for most of their lathes.


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## Karl_T (Feb 15, 2019)

Great parts and service at monarch...

But they must all be gold plated, judging by the price. I guess I don't blame them, having a HUGE inventory of parts that hardly move has to be expensive.


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## hermetic (Feb 15, 2019)

Don't think they are babbit metal, can you seperate the bearing from the cast iron cap? Usually babbit bearings finish flush with the cap outer surface so that it can be damned with clay when the babbit is poured, these look more like bronze bearings, and if indeed monarch carry spares, they must be, babbit is always poured in situ. it is white in colour, and fairly soft. I have a very similar lathe to this, a Covmac although mine is made a bit later, with a geared head


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## john.k (Feb 15, 2019)

Be careful with the shims,keep them as a set side to side ,and dont lose or crumple any of the paper thin ones........if shims are lost,then you got problems ....a few scratches wont hurt.......a jammed spindle from lost  or transposed shims will.


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## f350ca (Feb 15, 2019)

I agree with hermetic, those are bronze shell bearings. Probably lots of life left in them.

Greg


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## john.k (Feb 16, 2019)

Bronze shells lined with thin babbit............many auto bearings have babbit lined bronze or steel shells ,with the babbit only 005 " thick.......if the bearing picks up ,the babbit runs and frees the journal........bronze bearings seize hard and score the shaft.


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## corbinstein (Feb 5, 2021)

looks like an A. I have possibly the predecessor. Have you ID'd it yet?


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