# Cheap Test Indicators Unusable?



## Chips O'Toole (Dec 31, 2019)

I am wondering what kinds of experiences people have had with cheap test indicators.

I have never had a problem with a dial indicator, no matter how cheap, so at some point in the past I bought a test indicator from CDCO. Tonight I had to mount my vise on my mill, so I used the indicator. I got nowhere with it. It seemed like the numbers never wanted to settle down. I ended up so far out of tram I could actually see it. I had to knock the vise back into position and start over.

I got out my old Tesatest indicator (not Asian), and it was a different story. It worked exactly the way it was supposed to, and I was done in a few minutes.

The impression I got with the CDCO indicator was that the zero was wandering. Has anyone else had an experience like that?


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## tazzat (Dec 31, 2019)

Got 2 cheap diail indicatores from ebay.. they work but dont messure the same over 1mm travel.. for indicating they are ok..


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## Chips O'Toole (Dec 31, 2019)

My problem was with a test indicator, not a dial indicator.


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## westerner (Dec 31, 2019)

I can relate. I bought a cheap test indicator, and mounted it to Joe Pie's magnetic holder. 

There is enough play in the pivot of the indicator arm that when you reverse the indicator's travel, in X or Y,  backlash in that pivot is substantial, and observable. 
If you use it in one direction only, I guess it is okay, but it IS a piece of junk. The import knockoff of Joe's holder is solid in comparison. 

The Chinese have allowed many of us into this game. They have also provided lessons that we would not have learned any other way. For that, I suppose I am grateful.....


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## Chips O'Toole (Dec 31, 2019)

I'm wondering if I damaged the CDCO indicator in the past. But I have had trouble tramming the vise before, so maybe the indicator was always funny.

I also wonder if Shars test indicators are any better. I have had zero problems with their micrometers.


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## darkzero (Dec 31, 2019)

What is a Joe Pie magnetic holder? He makes his own indicator holder?


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## bill stupak (Dec 31, 2019)

What resolution is the indicator, the finer the res. the more it will jump around.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 31, 2019)

What @darkzero said; what is a Joe Pie magnetic holder?
(Not to be confused with Joe’s Magnetic Pie Holder) 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## darkzero (Dec 31, 2019)

I know Joe Pie likes to use one of those old General No 387 mag holders, they are no longer made and they make knock offs now. But I was not aware that he made his own holder. I don't keep up with his videos & a quick search came up empty.


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## NCjeeper (Dec 31, 2019)

Chips O'Toole said:


> I also wonder if Shars test indicators are any better. I have had zero problems with their micrometers.


Shar's DTI's are very good for the money so I would venture to say that their test indicators would be pretty good also.


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## benmychree (Dec 31, 2019)

You get what you pay for; I bought Starrett Last Word (New)  indicator back in the 1960's, it has given no problems in all those years;  buy crap. use crap, throw away crap.


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## BGHansen (Jan 1, 2020)

I have a plethora of dti's including Shars, a no-name import, many Fowler's, 4 or 5 Mitutoyos, 4 Interapids, 3 or 4 Starretts and a few General.  I've had no issues with any of them though none get heavy use. You may get a decent import that will serve you well, but I sure like my Interapids. They go for around $100 on eBay.

Bruce


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## Tozguy (Jan 1, 2020)

Chips, your own experience is very eloquent. Both of my budget DTI s are used regularly and do the job (barely) but if I were to do it over again I would follow www.longislandindicator.com recommendations.


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## ThinWoodsman (Jan 1, 2020)

BGHansen said:


> have a plethora of dti's including Shars, a no-name import, many Fowler's, 4 or 5 Mitutoyos, 4 Interapids, 3 or 4 Starretts and a few General. I've had no issues with any of them though none get heavy use.



Same here (well, with fewer of the good ones). The cheaper ones bounce around a bit when dialing in, so they are less useful for taking a measurement (e.g. "the bar is 0.002 thicker at one end"), but for relative measure of deviation they work just fine. No movement is no movement, after all.

I use the Shars indicators and DTIs for setups and such, and save the good ones for surface plate work.


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## AndySomogyi (Jan 1, 2020)

It is infuriating when people say ‘import’ and imply that literally everything made on the planet is junk except for things made is US.

China is a massive country who’s population is significantly larger than the US. They are not a homogenous country.

Some Chinese indicators are junk, and some are extremely good, world class even. Even indicators from the same brand vary, and are priced accordingly.

I use Harbor Freight indicators on the press, or dialing in rough stuff, fine for that. I have a high end HHIP indicator that I prefer over my Starrett Last Word, the HHIP has a smoother action and Is easier to read. I also have one if the medium priced HHIP indicators, and it’s just barely OK. 

Look at the company catalogs and read what is it’s intended purpose. 

I’m a big fan of Fowler, they’re medium priced, and they do a very good job of quality control. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## MrWhoopee (Jan 1, 2020)

benmychree said:


> You get what you pay for; I bought Starrett Last Word (New)  indicator back in the 1960's, it has given no problems in all those years;



I too bought a new Last Word (in the '80s, I was a late bloomer). It has been very solid and reliable. I did have to send it to Long Island Indicator for repair once, though I don't recall why. They returned it with a nice protective cover for the tip but missing the body clamp. It's interesting to note that they have a so-so opinion and no longer repair them.

They give a pretty thorough evaluation of the various brands available.





						Test Indicator Brand Comparison
					

Test Indicator Brand Comparison: Mitutoyo, Starrett, Bestest, Interapid and others.




					www.longislandindicator.com
				




If you really want to get down in the weeds, they've published a booklet




__





						Companion Reference Guide for Test Indicators
					

Reference guide for test indicators (2020 Edition) by René Urs Meyer




					www.longislandindicator.com
				




For future reference, I recently had my 1 in. Starrett mic repaired by Precision Instrument Correction. They were SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than L.I.I.





						Precision Instrument Correction, Inc. | Calibration Services | Brea, CA
					

Precision Instrument Correction Inc. is an ISO/IEC 17025:2005 Accredited Calibration Lab. PIC has been providing quality calibration services in Southern California since 1982. We offer one-week turnaround, expedite, and onsite service. Call our sales department at 714-671-6018 for more detail.




					www.picinc.net


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## Chips O'Toole (Jan 1, 2020)

There are some pretty good prices on Ebay, so I think I'll invest in a real test indicator. The Tesatest works great, but I want one that reads tenths instead of fractions of a millimeter.

I love the metric system, but machining has me stuck in Imperial, so I'm running with it.


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## westerner (Jan 1, 2020)

darkzero said:


> I know Joe Pie likes to use one of those old General No 387 mag holders


That is correct. I cannot find the old General holder, and so I bought a chinese knockoff of it. It is NOT a quality holder, but it is far more solid and repeatable than the cheap dial indicator that I mounted to it. Live and learn. 

As I said, I truly do appreciate the lessons the Chinese have taught me. I was able to get into the machining hobby because of them. I was then able to sharpen my pre-existing appreciation of Quality tooling as a result of their marketing philosophy. 

If you detect a note of sarcasm or irony, then we both can thank my English Comp professors in school


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## 682bear (Jan 2, 2020)

For travel indicators, I have 3 Teclocks and a chinese knockoff of the Teclock... the chinese indicator works well, bit is not as smooth as the Teclock.

As far as test indicators go, I'm pretty much stuck on my Interapid indicators.

I've had 3 of the Starrett last word indicators... one was acquired used and the other 2 new, and have not had one yet that would repeat... at all. I'm not a big fan... and doubt I'll ever own another one.

-Bear


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## mmcmdl (Jan 2, 2020)

I agree . The last words are not the most accurate by any means . I have more than a few for general purpose use but always use the best tests when accuracy matters .


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## Chips O'Toole (Jan 2, 2020)

I ordered a Federal Testmaster. We'll see how well it works.


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## middle.road (Jan 2, 2020)

I've got a 'Heinz57' mix of DTIs and indicators. 
The Mitutoyo & B&S are my goto DTIs. My Last Words I have never much cared for. 
In regards to Dial Indicators, the imports that I have perform well enough for what I do with them.
When chasing thousandths, I break out the 'old' ones.
If you're building satellites and such, then you might need something better.


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## homebrewed (Jan 2, 2020)

I have two import DTI's (.0005" and .0001") and the mechanisms work fine.  However, one of them came with a defective post adapter -- the dovetail is so poorly made that it doesn't securely hold the DTI.  This DOES render the DTI untrustworthy.  To get around that I use the good post from the other DTI.  Sort of a pain to move back & forth so my next Shars order will include a replacement post.


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## Dabbler (Jan 2, 2020)

I don't have much in the way of expectations when I pay $20 or less for an indicator.  All my plunge indicators are offshore, and in light use, they all do fine (I have 4 or 5)  A ll my test indicators are name brand, Mitutoyo or Interrapid. Knowing guys with indicators that had problems, I think these are the tradeoffs:

If you are going to be a light user,  going cheap won't hurt you.  However some DTIs work fine, until they don't.  If you go cheap, get a few gauge blocks to check the calibration if you suspect something is wonky.  I've stayed away from inexpensive DTIs because one way to make them cheap is with injected molded gears in the gear train, which gives rough readings, and shorter life.  If you have to replace them once or twice if they age out, it is still a lot less than buying one of the Big 3....

*Anyone here have any experience with Fowler indicators, plunge or DTI?*


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## Tozguy (Jan 2, 2020)

Yes I have a Fowler .0001'' DTI. I only use it in special cases because of the limited range (+/- .005'') and because it is very sensitive.
But it has done the job.
I also have a Fowler 4'' dial caliber that does not repeat very well, has rough feel compared to my Mitu and iGaging OriginCal.


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## MrWhoopee (Jan 2, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> *Anyone here have any experience with Fowler indicators, plunge or DTI?*



Not personally, but here's what L.I.I. has to say:


*Fowler* once relied heavily on English imports such as Verdict indicators. These were about as good as English weather. Nowadays they rely more heavily on Swiss made gages but also offer look-alikes in their effort to remain competitive. Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing: they offer a pathetic imitation of the Bestest indicator and an Interapid look-alike is made in China and sold under the name Xtest. The best mechanical test indicator which Fowler offers is the Swiss made Girodtast. Fowler recently imtroduced Ultra-Tast indicators which are made by Kafer in Germany. It is a respectable manufacturer but has been known to outsource to China. Repairs and spare parts may be hard to come by. A five-year warranty sounds great but it is against manufacturing defects. Any defects would be noticed within the first few weeks of use and not likely after four-and-a-half years. When shopping Fowler, if it doesn't say "Swiss Made" or "German made": Buyer beware.

Repairs: limited by parts availability. Ask your preferred repair shop before sending these.
Sales: Fowler distributors and online
Parts: check with Fowler
Information: Fowler web site"


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## Dabbler (Jan 2, 2020)

thanks!


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## BGHansen (Jan 3, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> I don't have much in the way of expectations when I pay $20 or less for an indicator.  All my plunge indicators are offshore, and in light use, they all do fine (I have 4 or 5)  A ll my test indicators are name brand, Mitutoyo or Interrapid. Knowing guys with indicators that had problems, I think these are the tradeoffs:
> 
> If you are going to be a light user,  going cheap won't hurt you.  However some DTIs work fine, until they don't.  If you go cheap, get a few gauge blocks to check the calibration if you suspect something is wonky.  I've stayed away from inexpensive DTIs because one way to make them cheap is with injected molded gears in the gear train, which gives rough readings, and shorter life.  If you have to replace them once or twice if they age out, it is still a lot less than buying one of the Big 3....
> 
> *Anyone here have any experience with Fowler indicators, plunge or DTI?*


Thought I had quite a few, but the ones in the green boxes are Federal TestMasters (one is a Fowler), blue plastic boxes are my Fowler's.  My Fowler's are in 0.0005", 0.01 mm and 0.0025 mm resolutions.  I haven't had any issues with repeatability; I've only used them for checking run-out on a continuous surface.  I have not touched on a surface, moved off, and returned for a repeatability check.

Bruce


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## Dabbler (Jan 4, 2020)

Thanks, Bruce!


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## Toolmaker51 (Jan 8, 2020)

First off, no bigger private fan of Long Island Indicator than I. If it ran for President. . .
Various indicators become erratic, often traced to a depressed or loose crystal. It drags on the needle and havoc ensues.
Most good indicators are worth the money, even used.  What Last Words have, a scroll, just can't do what a Interapid [geared] can. But either seem to last for ever. I have and use both. If I'm dialing a big bore with just .001 to remove or locating other features Interapid is #1.

Member middle.road said _If you're building satellites and such, then you might need something better. _
That sums it well.
And if you _are_ making satellites, someone else is buying the indicators . . .


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