# Anyone using a Porta-Band type saw as a their vertical bandsaw?



## DavidR8 (Apr 4, 2022)

Here's my dilemma: I have an import wood/metal vertical bandsaw and a 7x24 horizontal bandsaw. The horizontal is great, cuts square etc.
The vertical is just OK. I managed to tune it up so that it cuts ok but it's underpowered and the table and trunnions are pretty feeble cast aluminum affairs.
For wood it's just barely OK.
I'd consider getting rid of it in favour of a Porta-band type saw and a table so that I can have a proper wood bandsaw instead of trying to make the one I have do double-duty. But I wonder what capability I might be trading away...


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## davidpbest (Apr 4, 2022)

I have a Milwaukee Port-A-Band in a Swag stand.



It is the least helpful and effective of all my shop power tools.  It cuts agonizingly slow, and I’ve tried 6 different blade types.  The throat configuration really limits the size/type of material you can feed through the blade.

I would encourage you to consider another type of solution, including replacing both your band saws with a new version that will function in either horizontal or vertical mode.   Or a cold saw.  I have a Dewalt cold saw that I use all the time for everything from aluminum to 304 stainless, and have it mounted on a roll-around bench.  Some details of that are *here*.


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## DavidR8 (Apr 4, 2022)

Thanks @davidpbest I used a Porta-Band a lot to cut metal cable racks when I was building out telecom facilities and they seemed OK. But that was unknownium metal so maybe not representative use.
I'm not aware of a convertible mode saw. I have a table for my horizontal saw but it's a complete pain to use so I can't imagine that's a solution.
I was looking at the new Evolution 7-1/4" metal saw in the recent KBC catalog. Maybe I need to investigate that a bit more.

Love your metalworking cart!


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## akjeff (Apr 4, 2022)

Guess it's all relative. I have a Milwaukee in a SWAG stand, and equipped with a foot switch. I find it to be one of the most handy tools in the shop.


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## matthewsx (Apr 4, 2022)

Not sure I can be of much help but I'll be watching. I have my dad's old Craftsman with a speed reducer and it works pretty well as long as I don't push it too hard but unfortunately it's 2000 miles away right now. I have a very cute little Walker Turner 12" that I'm hoping to make into a decent saw for cutting small pieces.

The thing I'd ask about your current setup is how slow can you make it run and what blades have you tried? Speed and tooth pitch make a huge difference with bandsaws so it might make sense to experiment a little more before you give up.

Of course, if you have the space start shopping for a cheap DoAll. I'd love to have a real proper metal cutting vertical saw but that will have to wait until my shop grows quite a bit. BTW, I know you don't have much more space than I have so getting double duty out of whatever you have will help a lot. FWIW I haven't had much trouble cutting wood at a slower speed, just takes longer.

John


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## DavidR8 (Apr 4, 2022)

@davidpbest Do you cut solid stock with your metal saw?


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## DavidR8 (Apr 4, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> Not sure I can be of much help but I'll be watching. I have my dad's old Craftsman with a speed reducer and it works pretty well as long as I don't push it too hard but unfortunately it's 2000 miles away right now. I have a very cute little Walker Turner 12" that I'm hoping to make into a decent saw for cutting small pieces.
> 
> The thing I'd ask about your current setup is how slow can you make it run and what blades have you tried? Speed and tooth pitch make a huge difference with bandsaws so it might make sense to experiment a little more before you give up.
> 
> ...


Thanks John, I will definitely check but I think I have the blade at the lowest possible speed. Haven't tried a bunch of different blades yet so there may be some performance to be gained.


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## matthewsx (Apr 4, 2022)

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks John, I will definitely check but I think I have the blade at the lowest possible speed. Haven't tried a bunch of different blades yet so there may be some performance to be gained.


What is the lowest possible speed?

If it's not on a speed reducer it might not be slow enough for metal. I'll bet you can figure out a way to get it slower, I'm planning a DC motor with speed control for my new/old saw. Either that or maybe a little 3 phase with VFD.

John


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## matthewsx (Apr 4, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> What is the lowest possible speed?
> 
> If it's not on a speed reducer it might not be slow enough for metal. I'll bet you can figure out a way to get it slower, I'm planning a DC motor with speed control for my new/old saw. Either that or maybe a little 3 phase with VFD.
> 
> John


Blades are simple, 3 teeth on the workpiece, can't always get there so super fine for sheet metal.

What's the saw doing when you try cutting the pieces you have?

John


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## woodchucker (Apr 4, 2022)

I like my little Milwaukee portaband in a table. It does a pretty good job. But I have a large sheet of Aluminum that it is too small to cut.
I'll probably setup in the garage to cut using a circular saw. its 6061 -6051  precision sheet.
I might make some 1 foot by 4 foot panels.


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## matthewsx (Apr 5, 2022)

Sorry, just re-read your post. I thought you already had a wood cutting saw and were trying to make that work.

Agree with the coldsaw comment above. I'll be letting my horizontal bandsaw go when I get my little vertical set up since I have a small coldsaw for cutting bar stock. The coldsaw is just freaking amazing and all the much better that it was free. I think it's tough getting something that will do double duty here, solid bar stock can easily (but not accurately) be cut with a 4" angle grinder. Horizontal saws also do well with this but are pretty limited when turned vertical.

If most of your bar is fairly small then switching to a capable vertical saw for pattern type work might be fine if you're just cutting solid pieces to length for working on the lathe or mill and don't mind the mess and noise of abrasive cutting.

I'll let others comment on portaband saws since I don't currently own one.

Like I said, I might not be that helpful here....

John


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## DavidR8 (Apr 5, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> Blades are simple, 3 teeth on the workpiece, can't always get there so super fine for sheet metal.
> 
> What's the saw doing when you try cutting the pieces you have?
> 
> John


I just checked the specs and pulley sizes:
1725 rpm motor
1.75" pulley on the motor driving a 4.75"/1.75" jackshaft pulley driving a 6" pulley attached to 14" diameter wheel.
(Not sure that makes sense...)
There's definitely room to add a larger jackshaft and final pulley.
Looks to be about 674 SFM at the slowest speed. Which as far as I can tell is about twice as fast as it should be for metal.



I figured out the wheel speed using this calculator:





						Pulley Calculator. RPM, Belt Length, Speed, Animated Diagrams - Inch
					






					www.blocklayer.com
				





I took the ratio of 1:9.31 and 185 rpm and got as close as I could to that using this calculator:





						Band Saw Calculator | Blade SFPM - Inch
					






					www.blocklayer.com


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## davidpbest (Apr 5, 2022)

DavidR8 said:


> @davidpbest Do you cut solid stock with your metal saw?


If you mean my Dewalt cold saw, then yes.  I’ve cut through 5x5 304 stainless, 1018 steel, and 6061 aluminum with it.


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## DavidR8 (Apr 5, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> If you mean my Dewalt cold saw, then yes.  I’ve cut through 5x5 304 stainless, 1018 steel, and 6061 aluminum with it.


Thanks David, that's a good data point for me.


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## matthewsx (Apr 5, 2022)

DavidR8 said:


> I just checked the specs and pulley sizes:
> 1725 rpm motor
> 1.75" pulley on the motor driving a 4.75"/1.75" jackshaft pulley driving a 6" pulley attached to 14" diameter wheel.
> (Not sure that makes sense...)
> ...


Yeah, too fast. But you have tools, see if you can slow it down.

John


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## DavidR8 (Apr 5, 2022)

I'll check my local supply house and see if I can't find some larger/smaller pulley combos.


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## Aukai (Apr 5, 2022)

I have the swag setup, the throat is very limiting ~ 5", and it is slow, but if it's all that you have, it's the best.


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## projectnut (Apr 5, 2022)

Depending on the size and types of metal you intend to cut you might want to look at a real cold saw.  I just purchased a used Baileigh CS-350-EU for about the same price as most of the porta-band saws available at Home Depot.






						Cicular Cold Saw - CS-350EU Coldsaw  | Baileigh Industrial
					

Baileigh Industrial's CS-350-EU cold saw is a powerful machine that can cut through solids, tubing, or pipe. This cicular cold saw is usually in stock for fast shipments.




					www.baileigh.com
				




This one will be replacing a Black & Decker similar to the one David Best showed in an earlier post.  While the B&D works fine for what it is, I much prefer a sturdier saw with slower blade speed. 

The Baileigh has a fairly small footprint and can cut up to 4'x 4" square stock and 4.7" round stock.  It has a 14" blade, that can vary from 24 rpm to 120 rpm.  The nice thing is that it's 220 single phase, so no vfd or phase converter are needed.  It is a bit of a beast in that it weighs in at around 700 lbs.

These saws come on the market from time to time at prices that are more than affordable.  I've been looking on and off for one for a few years.  All those at the regular places like eBay, Facebook Marketplace, and Craigslist seem to have unrealistic prices for the condition of the machines they are selling.  I happened across this one at a used equipment dealer.

The machine is now setting in the garage at the family cottage about 100 miles from home.  I'm in the process of disassembling it into pieces small enough to bring home in the family vehicle.  The first stop for the bulk of the pieces will be the local DIY car wash.  Once everything is cleaned I'll reassemble it in the shop and put it to work.

This may be a bit of an extended project.  Normally I would load the entire machine into the trailer, bring it home in 1 piece and disassemble, clean, and reassemble it here.  Unfortunately at this point in time the ground is so soft the trailer would dig deep ruts trying to remove it from its parking pad, so disassembly is done before transportation, and reassembly will be done in the shop.  I'm also assuming there will be delays in the assembly due to the normal yard work chores that have to be performed every spring.


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## Aaron_W (Apr 5, 2022)

I don`t understand the suggestion of a cold saw to replace a vertical bandsaw. As a replacement for a horizontal makes sense, but I thought one of the major reasons for a vertical bandsaw was cutting shapes or wide sheet stock too big for a horizontal. I don't see a cold saw being useful for either of those uses.


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## Cadillac (Apr 5, 2022)

I use a portaband on a stand for small pieces. I have a vertical 14” bandsaw which get used for larger work. Or longer cuts thin and thick. I have a horizontal to which I use more for bar stock, thicker cuts. Horizontal is nice because you can walk away and let it work. 
 To me each saw has its place yes you can get by with just one. I probably use the all about the same. Small and quick is where I think the portaband shines.


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## C-Bag (Apr 5, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> Yeah, too fast. But you have tools, see if you can slow it down.
> 
> John


my research at the speeds DoAll go is about 120 and that's what I shot for with my 14" conversion and I'm totally happy with it. So by that your saw is going around 5-6x's to fast.


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## zondar (Apr 5, 2022)

I have a #notsponsored (DeWalt) portaband on a stand with a heavy-duty foot-switch. I got it mostly because I'm phobic about large, heavy, stationary equipment, and my cutting needs are relatively simple and easy. 

I chose the DeWalt mostly because its lowest speed was lower than most others (100 fpm, if I recall). It's a high-quality tool, in my opinion. It wasn't cheap, and it's certainly not equivalent to a real metal-cutting vertical bandsaw, but it's very handy and it's way, way better than a hacksaw. Besides basic cutting, I have also used it to rough-out shapes in flat stock.

I'm less impressed with the Swag stand, though it does work. The rust starts _immediately_, it came with an incorrectly-drilled main mounting hole, it's a bit top heavy (the legs were designed more for looks than for practicality), and so on, so I'd call it OK at best.


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## MrWhoopee (Apr 5, 2022)

I had a spare (HF) 4x6, so it got converted to a dedicated vertical. Modifications got almost 6" throat. I use it all the time.


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## DavidR8 (Apr 5, 2022)

Genius idea @MrWhoopee!


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## C-Bag (Apr 5, 2022)

I could see the appeal of the portaband on a stand but after years of basically the same thing by tilting up my 4x6 I just hate the crappy table. If I want to do a sloppy chop I’ll do it with the grinder and a suicide blade or my little air grinder with a blade.

99% of the time I want to cut something odd or small a bandsaw without a good table and a sled doesn’t cut it for me. We all have different stuff we’re doing so it’s probably not applicable but for me the 14” with the nice cast iron table with the sled has made it where I don’t do weird dangerous stuff anymore like I used to. I almost never run out of ways to clamp weird pieces to that sled. And big thick pieces I can cut by putting air to the feed cylinder and let it go.

in keeping with the right tool for the job, if you find it’s a mess to cut sheetmetal with a bandsaw it’s because it is. Once you use like a throatless shear or a handheld electric shear you’ll see why sheetmetal guys use shears, not bandsaws. I love my Beverly B2 to right up to 16ga.


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## woodchucker (Apr 5, 2022)

MrWhoopee said:


> I had a spare (HF) 4x6, so it got converted to a dedicated vertical. Modifications got almost 6" throat. I use it all the time.
> 
> View attachment 403129


spill the beans on the mods to get a bigger throat... did you do a thread.. if so can you link it in...?
thanks..


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## MrWhoopee (Apr 5, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> spill the beans on the mods to get a bigger throat... did you do a thread.. if so can you link it in...?
> thanks..


It starts here:  https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/show-us-your-4x6-bandsaw-modifications.87/post-871223

There are two more posts after that one.


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## projectnut (Apr 5, 2022)

Aaron_W said:


> I don`t understand the suggestion of a cold saw to replace a vertical bandsaw. As a replacement for a horizontal makes sense, but I thought one of the major reasons for a vertical bandsaw was cutting shapes or wide sheet stock too big for a horizontal. I don't see a cold saw being useful for either of those uses.


I would agree that a cold saw isn't going to do any contour work.  On the other hand, a porta-band isn't going to do much of that either.  They only have a throat depth of around 5" and use 1/2" wide blades.  The minimum radius that can be cut with a 1/2" blade is 2 5/8" or 66mm.  To get tighter contours you will need narrower blades.  

My 10" Dewalt vertical bandsaw can use blades as narrow as 1/8" allowing it to cut a radius as small as 1/8".  Even though it can cut a tight radius it still has the problems of a small table, and only a 10" deep throat.  If you really want a contour saw, I suggest a DoAll with a minimum of a 16" throat.  They are great machines in that they have huge tables, can use a variety of blade sizes, and have multiple speeds.  The big downside is they take up an acre of room and weigh a ton.

The cold saw can do angle cuts anywhere from 0* to 90* and leave a mill cut finish.


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## davidpbest (Apr 5, 2022)

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks @davidpbest I used a Porta-Band a lot to cut metal cable racks when I was building out telecom facilities and they seemed OK. But that was unknownium metal so maybe not representative use.
> I'm not aware of a convertible mode saw. I have a table for my horizontal saw but it's a complete pain to use so I can't imagine that's a solution.
> I was looking at the new Evolution 7-1/4" metal saw in the recent KBC catalog. Maybe I need to investigate that a bit more.
> 
> Love your metalworking cart!


You asked about bandsaws that flip from horizontal to vertical.  Here are some examples.

Here is a relatively inexpensive horizontal/vertical convertible bandsaw (Jet ET HVBS-56):  




There are versions with larger capacity and bigger motors such as this one (JET HVBD-712D):  




Fellow H-M member and good friend @ahazi tricked out his version - details here, so if you want his impressions, DM him:  https://tinyurl.com/2nxp3y2n
And if you want a super high quality made in the USA unit, you can't beat an Ellis 1600:  https://www.trick-tools.com/Ellis-1600-Dual-Mitering-Head-Band-saw-16911

My suggestion about a cold saw alternative was based on an assumption you just wanted to do cut-off/cut-through operations, which is all a Porta-Band is good for anyway given the throat size and orientation of the blade to the handle of the Porta-Band.  Obviously if you want to cut curved profiles you're going to need a bandsaw with a bigger throat than a Porta-Band in a stand anyway.


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## AGCB97 (Apr 5, 2022)

I know a lot of you guys wouldn't be seen with some of my contraptions but that's OK. To each his own.

This cost me nothing. When the HF saw had been used for many years, the brushes finally started giving trouble. I right away ordered another of the newer type from HF. One day when I was just playing, I took the brushes out and modified them a little to get a little more life.  Glued, strapped and screwed it to a piece of plywood and it's been in use that way for 3 or 4 years.

I have a Johnson horizontal, but many times need to make a small cut on a very small piece, and this is so easy. Anything up to 1/4" thick but sometimes 3/8".

Aaron


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## mickri (Apr 5, 2022)

I have never been happy with my Dunlap vertical band saw.  It was a wood bandsaw that I put a 30:1 speed reducer on.  That cut the sfm down to under 100 to around 200 depending on which pulley I am using.  My 3x6 horizontal with a 14 tpi blade running at 133 sfm just slices through whatever I want to cut.  So I got a 14 tpi blade for the vertical.  It doesn't cut anything worth a darn.   Rarely use it.  I might convert it back to wood.  Looking for ideas on this thread


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## DavidR8 (Apr 6, 2022)

Thinking about the problem a little more in relation to the cutting tools that I own and the work that I've needed to do.
Bandsaws:
4x6 horizontal bandsaw for cutting stock into lengths, been a great tool.
14" vertical bandsaw (supposedly wood & metal but SFM is high for metal) Does fine in non-ferrous and ferrous under 1/8"
Plasma cutter nothing to say except wow.
Oxy/acetylene nothing needs to be said here. 
Angle grinder Ugh. Tool of last resort for me. 
Tablesaw. Recently added a non-ferrous blade to cut aluminum panels for CNC. Cuts 1/4" aluminum like buttah!

I think I just need to slow the vertical bandsaw down and it will be fine for profile cuts in steel.


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## jwmay (Apr 6, 2022)

AGCB97 said:


> I know a lot of you guys wouldn't be seen with some of my contraptions but that's OK. To each his own.


Darn tootin! Ya can't argue with success my friend!


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## projectnut (Apr 6, 2022)

DavidR8 said:


> Thinking about the problem a little more in relation to the cutting tools that I own and the work that I've needed to do.
> Bandsaws:
> 4x6 horizontal bandsaw for cutting stock into lengths, been a great tool.
> 14" vertical bandsaw (supposedly wood & metal but SFM is high for metal) Does fine in non-ferrous and ferrous under 1/8"
> ...


I recently converted an older Rockwell wood bandsaw for use on metal.  








						Another Dinosaur Comes Back To Life
					

I've had a Rockwell 28-113 wood bandsaw sitting in the back of the shop since I bought it new in 1974.  It's gotten very little use since I haven't been into woodworking for over 30 years.  For the most part it's just taken up floor space and been used as a storage shelf.  A couple weeks ago I...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




I copied the middle speed on my Startrite H175 horizontal metal cutting bandsaw to be sure I was in a good cutting speed range.  While the saw is still a low end saw it cuts aluminum and mild steel fine when using a 10-14 variable pitch blade.  So far the thickest I've cut is 3/8".  It cuts as well and as fast as the horizontal saw.


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## C-Bag (Apr 6, 2022)

DavidR8 said:


> Angle grinder Ugh. Tool of last resort for me.


Yup, only because I spent 8yrs doing in the field fab where it was my primary tool did I get used to it. Now with all the tools you mention plus my stationary jig saw and die grinder it gets very little use. But there things it does that the others don’t.


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## Cadillac (Apr 6, 2022)

I use a angle grinder near daily at work. For some it’s a last resort but it will cut anything as long as you have time and blades. I have to stop myself at home and use one of the saws. Plasma only gets pulled out for a lot of cutting or long cuts on sheet stock. 
 My vertical has a variable pulley. Very easy to adjust speed might wanna look into something like that. I believe it’s a common design.


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## woodchucker (Apr 6, 2022)

Cadillac said:


> I use a angle grinder near daily at work. For some it’s a last resort but it will cut anything as long as you have time and blades. I have to stop myself at home and use one of the saws. Plasma only gets pulled out for a lot of cutting or long cuts on sheet stock.
> My vertical has a variable pulley. Very easy to adjust speed might wanna look into something like that. I believe it’s a common design.


variable is a reeves drive. the pulley spreads apart or gets closer..   Old time, but quite good. I know there are woodworkers turners (lathe) that tell me too much vibration they won't use it. I have one on my lathe, I don't see the vibration I don't see it.


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