# Learning to TIG



## DavidR8

Over on the "Show us your welders" thread I mentioned that I wanted to try my hand at TIG. Looked at Everlast and got nervous about support, AHP won't ship to Canada. @pgk mentioned that he was very happy with his Primeweld 225. Did some more investigation and look what happened!


(this is how it was left by UPS. That's a story unto itself...)
It will run on 110v so I'll do some practice at that voltage but I have some work to do before I can fully use it. I only have 40A in my shop so I'm going to pull a bigger service and run a 30A 220V dedicated circuit.

More to come!


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## General Zod

Hats off to a good start!  At least you have it!  Set up those coupons, clean them up, and weld away!


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## Aukai

I'm jealous, I got such a good deal on a Miller syncrowave 250 complete 2 years ago from a closing business, but I don't know how to set it, so it hasn't been used.....yet. It's wired, and fused for 100 amps too.


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## GunsOfNavarone

Get a bunch of coupons of different thickness and material. Practice just doing straight welds on the surface. get you amperage settings, keep a close torch height. Move on the filet, butt, outside and inside corners I got some great lines you can scribe into your material to practice weaving. Silicon bronze is great to start just to learn the motions as it welts at a lower temp. Your gonna get your coupon so hot they'll look like Pringles. Its a blast and super valuable to anyone who works with metal. Get yourself a TIG finger, save yourself some burns!


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## GunsOfNavarone

Zod hit it on the head. Clean you metal even your filler rod with acetone. Its crazy how much less frustrating it is when its clean....and clean your aluminum TWICE.


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## DavidR8

General Zod said:


> Hats off to a good start! At least you have it! Set up those coupons, clean them up, and weld away!



Thanks Oscar! Clearly you were following my saga over on WTT. 


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## DavidR8

GunsOfNavarone said:


> Get a bunch of coupons of different thickness and material. Practice just doing straight welds on the surface. get you amperage settings, keep a close torch height. Move on the filet, butt, outside and inside corners I got some great lines you can scribe into your material to practice weaving. Silicon bronze is great to start just to learn the motions as it welts at a lower temp. Your gonna get your coupon so hot they'll look like Pringles. Its a blast and super valuable to anyone who works with metal. Get yourself a TIG finger, save yourself some burns!



Thanks! 
I’m totally stoked about this. 
It’s a skill I’ve wanted to learn for ages. I’m grateful (once again!) for the experience here. 
I’ve got a TIG finger in my shopping cart at my LWS. 


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## DavidR8

Aukai said:


> I'm jealous, I got such a good deal on a Miller syncrowave 250 complete 2 years ago from a closing business, but I don't know how to set it, so it hasn't been used.....yet. It's wired, and fused for 100 amps too.



Surely there’s some guides out there for your machine...
As soon as I can dig myself out from the mountain of projects I’ll be at it. 
Bathroom renovation, shop renovation, knurling tool build, tap handle build, garden trellis, irrigation system re-do. 
Fortunately my sweetheart is completely supportive of me having the shop of my dreams so it’s all good by her 


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## Aukai

Pulse, cleaning, frequency stuff. I just need to figure out a set it, and forget it mode to start practicing.


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## DavidR8

Aukai said:


> Pulse, cleaning, frequency stuff. I just need to figure out a set it, and forget it mode to start practicing.



For what it’s worth, the manual that came with my machine is excellent. Very clear and well written with explanations and recommended settings. 
I have a PDF if you’d like a copy. 


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## Aukai

I'll hold off on that for now, I found the manual for mine, just haven't gotten back to it yet. Thank you very much for the offer.


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## DavidR8

It is perhaps the best manual I’ve seen. 
The bottom left corner of the front cover reflects one of the reasons I went with the Primeweld.


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## Asm109

weldingtipsandtricks.com.   This guy makes great videos and his website has a forum with lots of experienced welders to answer questions.


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## DavidR8

Asm109 said:


> weldingtipsandtricks.com. This guy makes great videos and his website has a forum with lots of experienced welders to answer questions.



Totally agree, and with a friendly attitude toward newbies like me!
Just like here 


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## General Zod

Aukai said:


> Pulse, cleaning, frequency stuff. I just need to figure out a set it, and forget it mode to start practicing.
> View attachment 326496



Don't mess with pulse yet.  Maybe in a few years.  Set the balance to "7" as indicated on the machine.  If you get pepper in the puddle decrease to get more cleaning action.  I don't think your machine has adjustable AC frequency, so you won't have to worry about that.


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## Aukai

Thank you


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## Old Mud

David, where is the  "Show us your welders" thread ? Couldn't find it. 

  Thanks


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## jwmelvin

I am fairly new (a few years) to TIG and though I don’t spend consistent time welding, I love the capability and can get into the swing of it when I have a project. It’s not so dissimilar from chopping vegetables in that you make repetitive, coordinated, rhythmic movements with both hands; and modulate the pedal. Of course, unlike chopping, you really can’t stop and recollect. So it’s a bit like performance driving too. So satisfying when it goes right. Tight arc and clean aluminum are your friends.


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## DavidR8

Old Mud said:


> David, where is the "Show us your welders" thread ? Couldn't find it.
> 
> Thanks



Right here








						Show Us your Welders!
					

I thought it might be fun to see everyones welding set-ups. The little Cricket is set up for stainless. The 210 can do both steel and aluminum. Here are my welders and bench. Now! let's see YOURS!




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				





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## aliva

check this site
https://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/tig-welding.html
easy to follow and covers a lot


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## DavidR8

aliva said:


> check this site
> https://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/tig-welding.html
> easy to follow and covers a lot



Oh yeah! Jodi and I are pals 


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## erikmannie

If I were to learn TIG over again, I would limit myself to (no pulse) welding on mild steel that is between 1/16” and 1/4” thick. I would also take a break from other welding processes until I had a good handle on the above.

I made the mistake of jumping into pulse, thin tubing, (AC) aluminum, stainless and titanium before I mastered TIG on carbon steel.

I also made the mistake of switching between TIG, stick, MIG and gas welding.

All that said, I’m sure you’ll end up like me and get swept away by your curiosity about AC, pulse, thin stuff, stainless and titanium.


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## jwmelvin

I hear what you are saying about bouncing around but I think there is some value to working with aluminum, as it demands that you develop heat-control and filler-feeding skills.


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## erikmannie

Watch out for the cheapo import gas lenses. If you pay for (quality) CK Worldwide gas lenses, you will experience much less frustration.

I also have a continuing issue with finding the balance between a quality weld and a weld bead that looks good. An experienced TIG welder can achieve both, but you might consider making sure that you achieve near 100% penetration and HAZ management (putting as little heat as necessary into the HAZ) before you worry too much about stacking dimes.


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## erikmannie

jwmelvin said:


> I hear what you are saying about bouncing around but I think there is some value to working with aluminum, as it demands that you develop heat-control and filler-feeding skills.



I have such a hard time on aluminum! No matter how much I clean the base material, I still get pepper in the puddle.

TIG welding aluminum is a humbling experience!


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## erikmannie

I bought a tungsten sharpener, and I usually use a TIG pen for feeding the rod:


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## erikmannie

I also find TIG on thin material to be a humbling experience. That is a good time to consider trying pulse.


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## erikmannie

Two final points for now:

(1) stringer beads have their place, but I learn more when I am welding a joint.

(2) time spent in the hood is the key. Watching YouTube videos is educational, but the arc time is what will get you to where you want to be.


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## kb58

TIG is awesome. Once you start, you never know what you'll end up with


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## Janderso

watching Jody Tig weld on Welding Tips and Tricks is like watching Tiger Woods play golf.
They make it look easy! It is not!
David, you will get really good at grinding tungsten by the time you get acquainted with the process.
One thing I really like about Tig welding over oxy/acc, Mig or Arc is it can be so versatile.
Cheers mate.


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## General Zod

Janderso said:


> watching Jody Tig weld on Welding Tips and Tricks is like watching Tiger Woods play golf.
> They make it look easy! It is not!



But they do show you what to look for!  There is no such thing as someone who has learned "too much".


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## Janderso

General Zod said:


> But they do show you what to look for!  There is no such thing as someone who has learned "too much".


I always get a kick out of Jody when he says, I need to practice.


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## Old Mud

Got it ,Thanks David.


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## 38super

Use argon, mixed gas sputters n spits.


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## DavidR8

kb58 said:


> TIG is awesome. Once you start, you never know what you'll end up with


You just had to show me that car didn't you? 
(Very cool rabbit hole!!!)


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## MrWhoopee

Congrats! I LOVE TIG welding, my absolute favorite. Been doing it since the mid 80s, but I still can't stack dimes. To me, TIG is similar to playing drums. 
Rub your belly, pat your head and tap your foot all at the same time.

30 amps is not enough, it's the same amount of work to run 50 amps and not that much more money. I've blown a 40 amp breaker running my RPC/mill.


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## DavidR8

MrWhoopee said:


> Congrats! I LOVE TIG welding, my absolute favorite. Been doing it since the mid 80s, but I still can't stack dimes. To me, TIG is similar to playing drums.
> Rub your belly, pat your head and tap your foot all at the same time.
> 
> 30 amps is not enough, it's the same amount of work to run 50 amps and not that much more money. I've blown a 40 amp breaker running my RPC/mill.


Thanks, I'm excited!
I have to pull in a new service to my shop to do do anything bigger than 30A. I'm limited to 60 A unless I want to dig up 50 ft of the existing conduit. On the plus side, I have small electrical needs. All my lights are LED and add up to a total of 250w, The only time I can imagine running two large machines at once would be a compressor and plasma cutter (neither of which I own) or a dust collector and tablesaw.


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## Technical Ted

Your TIG manual should tell you what the input circuit requirements are for your welder.

Ted


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## General Zod

MrWhoopee said:


> Congrats! I LOVE TIG welding, my absolute favorite. Been doing it since the mid 80s, but I still can't stack dimes. To me, TIG is similar to playing drums.
> Rub your belly, pat your head and tap your foot all at the same time.
> 
> 30 amps is not enough, it's the same amount of work to run 50 amps and not that much more money. I've blown a 40 amp breaker running my RPC/mill.



A hard-starting motor load is completely different from a welder load.  

David R8, tell me again why you can't run your welder on 240V ?


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## DavidR8

General Zod said:


> A hard-starting motor load is completely different from a welder load.
> 
> David R8, tell me again why you can't run your welder on 240V ?


Oh it's only because I haven't run a suitable 240v circuit. I have two now, one for my tablesaw and one for the VFD on my mill but both are only 20 A and don't have the correct receptacle.
I only have 40A coming into my shop. I have to pull in a new service to my shop to do do anything bigger than 30A. I'm limited to 60 A unless I want to dig up 50 ft of the existing conduit. On the plus side, I have small electrical needs. All my lights are LED and add up to a total of 250w, The only time I can imagine running two large machines at once would be a compressor and plasma cutter (neither of which I own) or a dust collector and tablesaw.


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## General Zod

40A should be plenty.  Why can't you install the correct receptacle?


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## DavidR8

General Zod said:


> 40A should be plenty.  Why can't you install the correct receptacle?


It's not a problem, I'm in the midst of rewiring the whole thing. just haven't got to that yet. Currently all of my machines are pulled into the middle of the space. To say that it's a mess is an understatement.


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## General Zod

lol.  Sounds like my garage.


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## DavidR8

General Zod said:


> lol.  Sounds like my garage.


I'm going to rent a storage container for a month, drop it in my driveway, load all my junk into it and spend a solid week to finish the wiring, and board the interior.


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## HarryJM

DavidR8 said:


> It will run on 110v so I'll do some practice at that voltage but I have some work to do before I can fully use it. I only have 40A in my shop so I'm going to pull a bigger service and run a 30A 220V dedicated circuit.


When I designed my new shed/shop electrical layout I had a 30 amp 220V dedicated welder outlet installed. Then prior to insulating/paneling I decided to upgrade that circuit to a 50A 220V as I wanted the extra amps for unanticipated welder requirements.


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## DavidR8

HarryJM said:


> When I designed my new shed/shop electrical layout I had a 30 amp 220V dedicated welder outlet installed. Then prior to insulating/paneling I decided to upgrade that circuit to a 50A 220V as I wanted the extra amps for unanticipated welder requirements.


If I switch out the service to 60A I will likely go to a 40A welder circuit.


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## Aaron_W

Janderso said:


> I always get a kick out of Jody when he says, I need to practice.



Bob Moffett at weld.com is another one who does that. 

I'd be thrilled to turn out welds half as good as their "bad ones".   



DavidR8 said:


> It's not a problem, I'm in the midst of rewiring the whole thing. just haven't got to that yet. Currently all of my machines are pulled into the middle of the space. To say that it's a mess is an understatement.



Sounds like my basement for the past 2 years. I'll get things kind of organized and then something changes and I'm back to chaos. It is usually a good change like getting a new machine, but it is still very disruptive. If I could ever get some of my home repair projects done I'd have a lot more room. I have the materials but never seem to find the time / motivation to do the work.


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## DavidR8

Aaron_W said:


> Bob Moffett at weld.com is another one who does that.
> 
> I'd be thrilled to turn out welds half as good as their "bad ones".
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like my basement for the past 2 years. I'll get things kind of organized and then something changes and I'm back to chaos. It is usually a good change like getting a new machine, but it is still very disruptive. If I could ever get some of my home repair projects done I'd have a lot more room. I have the materials but never seem to find the time / motivation to do the work.


Yup Bob is excellent. I've watched hours of his work too. Over lunch I watched this:




Pretty simple butt joint that Bob admits kicked his umm butt  He readily admits that he hasn't done anything like it for decades so needs to go and relearn.
This kind of statement is both impressive in its humility and somewhat terrifying to me as a beginner just starting this journey.


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## Aaron_W

DavidR8 said:


> Yup Bob is excellent. I've watched hours of his work too. Over lunch I watched this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty simple butt joint that Bob admits kicked his umm butt  He readily admits that he hasn't done anything like it for decades so needs to go and relearn.
> This kind of statement is both impressive in its humility and somewhat terrifying to me as a beginner just starting this journey.



I'm building a wheeled base for the bandsaw I just got, and it is my first MIG project since I finished class last December. 
I was feeling pretty good at my abilities by the end of class. After no welding for 6 months, the grinder got more action than I'd like to admit. 

Definitely a use it or lose it skill.


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## DavidR8

Alrighty folks. 
These are my first TIG beads that are worth showing. 
1/8” plate
1/16” filler
Running about 100-102 amps
17cfm
#7 cup
3/32” tungsten 







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## royesses

DavidR8 said:


> Alrighty folks.
> These are my first TIG beads that are worth showing.
> 1/8” plate
> 1/16” filler
> Running about 100-102 amps
> 17cfm
> #7 cup
> 3/32” tungsten
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That looks good for your first welds. It takes time and practice to get where the pros are. It is imperative that you learn to identify and focus on the puddle. Just keep on practicing and show us how your welds progress. I think you are the type who will become very skilled at welding. A quality welding hood makes a huge difference in what you see while welding. When my eyes went bad from cataracts I purchased a Lincoln 3350 4C hood because I was seeing multiple puddles, out of focus. With the 4C I think I'm looking at a high definition color photo.

Roy


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## DavidR8

royesses said:


> That looks good for your first welds. It takes time and practice to get where the pros are. It is imperative that you learn to identify and focus on the puddle. Just keep on practicing and show us how your welds progress. I think you are the type who will become very skilled at welding. A quality welding hood makes a huge difference in what you see while welding. When my eyes went bad from cataracts I purchased a Lincoln 3350 4C hood because I was seeing multiple puddles, out of focus. With the 4C I think I'm looking at a high definition color photo.
> 
> Roy


Thank you Roy, I appreciate your positive feedback and encouragement, it is definitely a skill with a steep curve. But I want to be good at it so I will keep practising.
I have an ESAB auto dark. It's an older model but it seems to work well. My challenge is that it does not accept a magnifying lens. So I was wearing my safety glasses which have 2.0 magnification in the bottom of the lenses, like bifocals. It works ok but it's not ideal. I think I will just get some 2.0 cheaters for welding.


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## royesses

DavidR8 said:


> Thank you Roy, I appreciate the positive feedback and encouragement, it is definitely a skill with a steep curve. But I want to be good at it so I will keep practising.
> I have an ESAB auto dark. It's an older model but it seems to work well. My challenge is that it does not accept a magnifying lens. So I was wearing my safety glasses which have 2.0 magnification in the bottom of the lenses, like bifocals. It works ok but it's not ideal. I think I will just get some 2.0 cheaters for welding.



Yes I have the same problem. I just wear my bifocals and try to have a 500 watt lamp shine on the weld area which helps a lot. I do have cheaters that fit into the lens but I prefer the bifocals. I use an elastic strap to keep the bifocals in place. With cataracts if there is enough light on the weld I don't need any magnification. Out in the sunlight I can easily read small print without glasses. Just keep on practicing. As you get better you will inspire yourself, that is when you really start getting good, from having confidence. Don't worry about stacking dimes. It is much more important to get good puddle control. I think that you will excel in anything you do judging by your posts. Just don't get discouraged. We all went through the learning curve.

Roy


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## General Zod

royesses said:


> That looks good for your first welds. It takes time and practice to get where the pros are. It is imperative that you learn to identify and focus on the puddle. Just keep on practicing and show us how your welds progress. I think you are the type who will become very skilled at welding. A quality welding hood makes a huge difference in what you see while welding. When my eyes went bad from cataracts I purchased a Lincoln 3350 4C hood because I was seeing multiple puddles, out of focus. With the 4C I think I'm looking at a high definition color photo.
> 
> Roy



If you think the Lincoln 4C is good, don't try the Optrel Crystal 2.0.   It's like looking through clear glass...


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## DavidR8

General Zod said:


> If you think the Lincoln 4C is good, don't try the Optrel Crystal 2.0.   It's like looking through clear glass...


That's astounding!
My ESAB turns everyone into the Green Lantern


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## francist

I had an older Optrel Satellite, it was crazy nice to use even in low light conditions. The batteries gave out though and it was the early version with the sealed cassette so you couldn’t change them. I hardly weld anyway so couldn’t justify the replacement, but I sure did get spoiled with that helmet.

-frank


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## 7milesup

DavidR8 said:


> Alrighty folks.
> These are my first TIG beads that are worth showing.
> 1/8” plate
> 1/16” filler
> Running about 100-102 amps
> 17cfm
> #7 cup
> 3/32” tungsten
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



So, to me it looks like your welds are too hot.  Your temperature (amps) is pretty close but maybe bump it up to 115.   Too hot of welds can come from too high of amperage, or ironically, too low of amperage and/or too long of an arc length.  
If your amps are too low, you will spend extra time trying to get your weld puddle to form.  While getting your weld puddle to form you are dumping heat into your metal, that is why the heat affected zone is so large. If you are holding the tungsten to far back and have too long of an arc, that will take more time to heat your puddle up and again, too much heat.   
You want your torch to be moving.  If you are sitting still, something is not right.  Also, don't be afraid to just do some butt joints with no filler.  They are easy to do and build confidence.  
If you go to aluminum, make sure you clean it with a STAINLESS steel brush.  If you don't do that, it will be a disaster.  Also, clean with laquer thinner or acetone after brushing.  Do not use brake cleaner as some YT channels suggest, because the stuff gives off noxious fumes.

I disagree about not using pulse.  Using pulse can help you find that sweet spot that you are looking for.  You can always turn it off, but without using all of the controls on the machine, you don't know what they can do for you.

Get a set of CK wedge collets instead of the craptastic split collets.   You can thank me later.   
1/2 cup size for gas flow.   Size 7 cup = 14cfm.   Your 17cfm is close enough.  3/32 tungsten is perfect IMHO.  Lanthanated is what i use.

The first picture is from a land plane I built for my tractor.  No filler rod and about 185 amps.  Second picture is of a 9ft finial that I built for our church.  All aluminum.  Took me a month.
I would post some more pictures but am tired.  Almost lost my life on Sunday and still recovering with multiple injuries.


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## DavidR8

7milesup said:


> So, to me it looks like your welds are too hot.  Your temperature (amps) is pretty close but maybe bump it up to 115.   Too hot of welds can come from too high of amperage, or ironically, too low of amperage and/or too long of an arc length.
> If your amps are too low, you will spend extra time trying to get your weld puddle to form.  While getting your weld puddle to form you are dumping heat into your metal, that is why the heat affected zone is so large. If you are holding the tungsten to far back and have too long of an arc, that will take more time to heat your puddle up and again, too much heat.
> You want your torch to be moving.  If you are sitting still, something is not right.  Also, don't be afraid to just do some butt joints with no filler.  They are easy to do and build confidence.
> If you go to aluminum, make sure you clean it with a STAINLESS steel brush.  If you don't do that, it will be a disaster.  Also, clean with laquer thinner or acetone after brushing.  Do not use brake cleaner as some YT channels suggest, because the stuff gives off noxious fumes.
> 
> I disagree about not using pulse.  Using pulse can help you find that sweet spot that you are looking for.  You can always turn it off, but without using all of the controls on the machine, you don't know what they can do for you.
> 
> Get a set of CK wedge collets instead of the craptastic split collets.   You can thank me later.
> 1/2 cup size for gas flow.   Size 7 cup = 14cfm.   Your 17cfm is close enough.  3/32 tungsten is perfect IMHO.  Lanthanated is what i use.
> 
> The first picture is from a land plane I built for my tractor.  No filler rod and about 185 amps.  Second picture is of a 9ft finial that I built for our church.  All aluminum.  Took me a month.
> I would post some more pictures but am tired.  Almost lost my life on Sunday and still recovering with multiple injuries.


First off, heal fast! I have no idea what happened but obviously it was very bad. 
Second, thank you so much for your detailed post, very helpful.
I'm still trying to find a good sitting position where I'm not putting too much pressure on my hands and restricting my movement. 

Definitely hear you on not enough amperage. I watched Jody Collier do a demo of four different amp settings on a lap joint, maybe 115 to 165 amps and by increasing travel speed he was able to reduce the heat affected zone at the higher amperage levels. Counter-intuitive but also completely logical.
I have a stubby kit and gas lens with wedge collets on its way which is good because alrady the split collets are deforming.

I have not tried pulse yet but will give it a go.


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## DavidR8

Here’s a butt joint. 
#7 cup, 20 cfm , 1/16 filler. 85’ish amps. 
Felt a bit cold as the puddle took a bit to form and it’s not wetted in. 
Wire brushed afterwards. 






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## 7milesup

I think you are correct in your assessment Dave.  The last bit of the weld on the left side is very close to what you want.  Keep it up!


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## Aaron_W

One of the things I was working on before my class was cancelled was consistent arc length. Arc length is directly tied to heat / power output. It was pointed out that TIG is very clean so you can start and stop as frequently as you want. Making short beads, then repositioning your hands before the next section was helping me a lot. I could make a very consistent bead when my hand was firmly set, and it became very obvious when I had gone beyond that position of comfort.


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## DavidR8

Aaron_W said:


> One of the things I was working on before my class was cancelled was consistent arc length. Arc length is directly tied to heat / power output. It was pointed out that TIG is very clean so you can start and stop as frequently as you want. Making short beads, then repositioning your hands before the next section was helping me a lot. I could make a very consistent bead when my hand was firmly set, and it became very obvious when I had gone beyond that position of comfort.


That is definitely something I've noticed. Starting and stopping is not a big deal. Completely different from MIG,
I've noticed that my gloves tend to stick to the table which is causing jerky movements. 
I have a TIG finger on the way but it's stuck in Miami at the moment.
Need to relax a bit I think.


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## DavidR8

7milesup said:


> I think you are correct in your assessment Dave.  The last bit of the weld on the left side is very close to what you want.  Keep it up!


Hurray! At least I'm able to diagnosis a little bit. 
Thanks for the encouragement, this is definitely one of the hardest things I've tried to learn!


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## Aaron_W

DavidR8 said:


> That is definitely something I've noticed. Starting and stopping is not a big deal. Completely different from MIG,
> I've noticed that my gloves tend to stick to the table which is causing jerky movements.
> I have a TIG finger on the way but it's stuck in Miami at the moment.
> Need to relax a bit I think.



Exactly, that jerking was causing some of my issues. By rolling my hand I was able to keep a pretty consistent arc, but had to reposition after 1-2" of bead.

Of course then you have the feeding hand which has its own set of problems.


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## 7milesup

The other thing you can do too is practice with the opposite hand.   If you normally hold the torch with the right hand, try some welds with the left hand.  I find that that helps build confidence along with the ability to weld in "non normal" situations, which you will come across.


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## royesses

General Zod said:


> If you think the Lincoln 4C is good, don't try the Optrel Crystal 2.0.   It's like looking through clear glass...



I have heard that the 2.0 is very clear. It is rated at 1,1,1,2 I think and the 33504C at 1,1,1,1 but the 2.0 is shade 2 on inactive clear so it has the edge. Perhaps if I need to replace my Lincoln I'll give the Optrel a try. Optrel has always been a high quality hood. I just don't do much welding any more and the 33504C does a great job for me and the newest version headgear is very comfortable for me.

Roy


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## DavidR8

The 3350 is on sale at my local tool store. Hmm Father’s Day? My birthday is coming too... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## General Zod

royesses said:


> I have heard that the 2.0 is very clear. It is rated at 1,1,1,2 I think and the 33504C at 1,1,1,1 but the 2.0 is shade 2 on inactive clear so it has the edge. Perhaps if I need to replace my Lincoln I'll give the Optrel a try. Optrel has always been a high quality hood. I just don't do much welding any more and the 33504C does a great job for me and the newest version headgear is very comfortable for me.
> 
> Roy



Take a good look at the picture I posted that you just quoted, LOL.  Not on you have you "heard", you have now seen, as that picture is the actual view of how clear it is, and how real the color representation comes through. 

I have a shade 3 helmet and this  Crystal 2.0 is more like shade 0.5 in the un-darkened state in comparison..  Shade 2 my b@)S, lol.  As you should be able to clearly see, its almost like looking through clear glass.


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## General Zod

DavidR8 said:


> The 3350 is on sale at my local tool store. Hmm Father’s Day? My birthday is coming too...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Skip it.  Just go right to the best.  You won't regret it.  And if you do, I never twisted your arm, LOL.


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## Aukai

I have the e-684, and out of habit with other hoods I have it set at 9, and I still like it better than the 3350. I am not a significant welder, and have not tried any other settings.


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## 7milesup

Oh, one other thing DaveR8..
Please wear a jacket that covers your neck when you TIG weld.  TIG welding emits significantly more radiation than other forms of welding.  I have burnt my neck/upper chest area too many times until I finally bought a welding jacket.  One of the best $30 I have spent.

Revco BSX Royal Blue welding jacket

I have the Lincoln 3350 and it works well.  Optrel would be awesome but I found my Lincoln on eBay new for $100. Some random liquidator had it.


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## DavidR8

I’ve been away from this thread for too long.
I made a big discovery tonight.
Feeding with my right hand reduces my tungsten contamination by 100%
My left hand just doesn’t have the control (yet) of my right hand.

As I build up the coordination I’ll keep switching back and forth.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## erikmannie

DavidR8 said:


> I’ve been away from this thread for too long.
> I made a big discovery tonight.
> Feeding with my right hand reduces my tungsten contamination by 100%
> My left hand just doesn’t have the control (yet) as my right hand.
> 
> As I build up the coordination I’ll keep switching back and forth.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I usually use one of these. Sometimes people mistake it for a vaping pen.





__





						Powerweld TIG Finger Feeder PW1550
					






					store.cyberweld.com


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## NC Rick

Dave, I think practice on thinner material is a good thing, it amplifies the control aspect which combines the arc length and amps via the peddle.  Leaving rod out of the equation for a while is worthwhile also.  I did much of my practice on aluminum and learned about heat control and filler rod need at a faster pace since the heat effects are amplified and insufficient filler lead to hot cracking of my welds.  The difference between aluminum and stainless steel is pretty extreme since they are on other ends of the extreme on heating.  
I fixed a buddy's Easy-Up last night welding the thin aluminum square tubes to the way thicker feet which had broken off.  I am so very far from being "Good" at Tig but have been able to make very workable welds on all types of things and that was my objective.


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## rwm

When you get to TIG on thinner aluminum here is a "cheat." I call it that but I use it every time as insurance. For aluminum 1/8 or less I use a steel backer. This prevents blow through and reduces the chance of a large area of melt down. It can also be part of your clamping setup. For example I have a piece of angle machined to exactly 90 deg. I clamp that on an inside corner while I weld the outside. Works like a charm and the inside corners look much nicer with a smaller HAZ.


You can also do this with copper on thin steel I am told.
Robert


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## DavidR8

erikmannie said:


> I usually use one of these. Sometimes people mistake it for a vaping pen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Powerweld TIG Finger Feeder PW1550
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> store.cyberweld.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 340597


Thanks Erik, I''ll have a look at those. 
Switching to feeding with my right hand was actually pretty good. Far more control than with my left.


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## DavidR8

NC Rick said:


> Dave, I think practice on thinner material is a good thing, it amplifies the control aspect which combines the arc length and amps via the peddle.  Leaving rod out of the equation for a while is worthwhile also.  I did much of my practice on aluminum and learned about heat control and filler rod need at a faster pace since the heat effects are amplified and insufficient filler lead to hot cracking of my welds.  The difference between aluminum and stainless steel is pretty extreme since they are on other ends of the extreme on heating.
> I fixed a buddy's Easy-Up last night welding the thin aluminum square tubes to the way thicker feet which had broken off.  I am so very far from being "Good" at Tig but have been able to make very workable welds on all types of things and that was my objective.


Thanks for your perspective Rick, I was pleasantly surprised by the few beads I ran on aluminum last night. I didn't clean the material as much l as I should have and my travel speed was too fast on the bottom bead or I should have backed off on the amps.


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## kb58

I tried one and didn't care for the finger feeder; for me it was just another variable in a situation where I already had too many to juggle.


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## kb58

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks for your perspective Rick, I was pleasantly surprised by the few beads I ran on aluminum last night. I didn't clean the material as much l as I should have and my travel speed was too fast on the bottom bead or I should have backed off on the amps.
> View attachment 340640


Oh just wait until you try butt-welding two thin pieces of aluminum together. It'll test your resourcefulness at recalling long-forgotten swear words. What happens is that the arc will reach out to one side but not the other, instantly burning the material back and opening up a hole. You have to get right in there close and give it a burst of heat that hits both simultaneously, then quickly add a dab of rod to connect the two. Once that happens, it becomes much easier to control the weld.

Here's one of my so-so okay welds in that department:


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## DavidR8

kb58 said:


> Oh just wait until you try butt-welding two thin pieces of aluminum together. It'll test your resourcefulness at recalling long-forgotten swear words.


I can imagine how challenging that will be


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## kb58

One project I enjoy a lot is header fabrication, which combines the technical requirements, welding skills, and artistic ability.


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## DavidR8

kb58 said:


> One project I enjoy a lot is header fabrication, which combines the technical requirements, welding skills, and artistic ability.


That's some really nice work!


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## kb58

Here's another glamour pic. Anyway, enough of the showing off... there's so few people who can appreciate it -


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## DavidR8

That's beautiful work @kb58!
Do you buy pre-bent tubing?


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## kb58

Yes, and to get back on the theme of this thread, TIG welding is like everything else, just practice, practice, practice.


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## NC Rick

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks for your perspective Rick, I was pleasantly surprised by the few beads I ran on aluminum last night. I didn't clean the material as much l as I should have and my travel speed was too fast on the bottom bead or I should have backed off on the amps.
> View attachment 340640


That looks great!  Are you pulsing or going on and off the peddle?  I found I was good at practicing until I sorta got it then no more practice, just fix and make things.  I love how clean and not smelly TIG is.

on the aluminum, fast is where it's at so that you have less heat affected zone.  Multiple passes like that when done concurrently are interesting as the heat builds op in the scrap piece.  To me il looks like you are doing great.  You have quite a lot of cleaning action there.
notice the hot cracking on the top weld in the photo?


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## DavidR8

NC Rick said:


> That looks great!  Are you pulsing or going on and off the peddle?  I found I was good at practicing until I sorta got it then no more practice, just fix and make things.  I love how clean and not smelly TIG is.
> 
> on the aluminum, fast is where it's at so that you have less heat affected zone.  Multiple passes like that when done concurrently are interesting as the heat builds op in the scrap piece.  To me il looks like you are doing great.  You have quite a lot of cleaning action there.
> notice the hot cracking on the top weld in the photo?


Thanks Rick! The first two were pedal-pulsed (if that's a word), the last using the pulse settings. My machine doesn't have any incremental markings on the pulse frequency, just starts at 10 and goes to 200 hz so halfway is 95 hz maybe?

I didn't notice the heat cracking but I definitely see it when I zoom in on the photo.


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## NC Rick

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks Rick! The first two were pedal-pulsed (if that's a word), the last using the pulse settings. My machine doesn't have any incremental markings on the pulse frequency, just starts at 10 and goes to 200 hz so halfway is 95 hz maybe?
> 
> I didn't notice the heat cracking but I definitely see it when I zoom in on the photo.


Kina fun, right?    Very nice.  I still dip my tungsten more than it like. I can't see and I shake!


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## DavidR8

NC Rick said:


> Kina fun, right?    Very nice.  I still dip my tungsten more than it like. I can't see and I shake!


It it completely fun! As much fun as This Old Tony makes it out to be... I blame him (and he knows it )


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## NC Rick

We love us some TOT over here!


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## General Zod

Tightening your core muscles while being loose and limber in the arms helps out as well.  


DavidR8 said:


> I’ve been away from this thread for too long.
> I made a big discovery tonight.
> Feeding with my right hand reduces my tungsten contamination by 100%
> My left hand just doesn’t have the control (yet) of my right hand.
> 
> As I build up the coordination I’ll keep switching back and forth.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Tightening your core muscles while being loose and limber in the arms helps a great deal as well, IMO.  Never rest your upper-body weight on your forearms/wrists/hands unless you only plan to do very short runs, because you will have to re-position a great deal.


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## DavidR8

General Zod said:


> Tightening your core muscles while being loose and limber in the arms helps out as well.
> 
> 
> Tightening your core muscles while being loose and limber in the arms helps a great deal as well, IMO.  Never rest your upper-body weight on your forearms/wrists/hands unless you only plan to do very short runs, because you will have to re-position a great deal.


Thanks Oscar, that's good advice. 
My new welding table is at a decent height so I'm not sitting like a praying Mantis as I was at my old table.


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## kb58

I found that getting my face really close to the welding helped a lot with accuracy and control. Did so by buying some mask inserts that focus about 6" in front of me. Come to think of it, not sure where I'll find the same thing for the new mask that's on the way... hmmm.


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## DavidR8

kb58 said:


> I found that getting my face really close to the welding helped a lot with accuracy and control. Did so by buying some mask inserts that focus about 6" in front of me. Come to think of it, not sure where I'll find the same thing for the new mask that's on the way... hmmm.


I have a 2.25 diopter insert in my helmet. It works fairly well but I'm interested in trying some actual 2.25 readers.
What helmet did you buy?


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## kb58

DavidR8 said:


> I have a 2.25 diopter insert in my helmet. It works fairly well but I'm interested in trying some actual 2.25 readers.
> What helmet did you buy?


I have the inserts in the Miller helmet that I've had for about 25 yrs. The new helmet, not yet here, is an Optrel 2.0, which I've read many great things about. We'll see!


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