# Mule look alike



## f350ca

Was watching the movie Full Metal Jacket a while back and spotted this cool little support vehicle. After a quick search on the net found out its called a Mule.




Think one of these would be incredibly handy around the yard for moving me and my stuff. These had 4 wd which would be cool but not necessary for what I want it for. Been mulling it over trying to come up with a drive system, have an old Suzuki trike i thought about repurposing but it doesn't have a rear diff so it would tear up the yard, thought about a golf cart drive but don't think it would have the oomph to haul a heavy load. Then Saturday was over at my buds and he says, have I got a cool thing for you. He found an old Cub Cadet tractor with no engine for free, he wanted the deck for his machine but I can have the hydrostatic drive. The rear end in this thing looks heavy duty, Im sure it will handle the torque but its only about 30 inches wide, standard garden tractor. I want the mule about 4 feet wide and 8 feet long so I'd need to widen the rear end. Found a manual on the net, it shows a needle bearing on the outside of the housing to the axle so Im not sure if that would tough it if I make spacers to widen the stance then put a payload on it.

 Any thoughts?

I could build chain drives down to stub axles to isolate the load but that would be a fair bit of work and one more thing to break.

Picked up an engine on sale today for it (jumping the gun) 14 hp way bigger than I'll need but has electric start, which my lazy self needs.




Hope to get the tractor home tomorrow, photos to follow.

Greg

Picked up an engine on sale today for it, (jumping the gun again). 14 horse, way more than I need but it has electric start, which my lazy self needs.


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## drs23

Can't wait to see this. You know the drill, Lots-0-Pics! :biggrin:


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## xalky

If it's an older cub cadet, they were bullet proof. My dad had a '74 model you couldn't kill it. we plowed with it and rammed it into snow banks..never broke it. I can't remember how the rear axle was set up on the ends to be of much help. Maybe a picture of the rear end when you get it will jog my memory.


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## tpic402

I go to the Knob Creek machine  gun shoot every year and fellas use these to haul ammo in and out, some charge small fee to take you and your purchases to the truck, the mules are way cool saw plenty of use during Vietnam I think


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## Bill Gruby

The "Mule" was used extensively in Viet Nam by the Marines. They did everything from light transport to full blown assault with a 106 recoilless rifle on them. You couldn't stop those things. Revell made a plastic model kit of them. You might find one on ebay to help you with the frame configuration.

 "Billy G"


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## f350ca

Marcel, I think its a model 129, will confirm that when I get it home, if so the net lists it as 1971-74 so could be the same machine. The rear diff looks tough, all cast iron, its just the needle bearings Im worried about if I space the wheels out.
The real thing would be nice to have but its the concept Im after, will probably regret not figuring a way to get 4wd, guess this and the cheap riding mower will be the only thing without. The tractor, atv,Jeep and pickup are 4wd and get used that way often.
Have a surplus of 2 inch square tube Bill so the frame will no doubt be designed around that. Not much in the way of pictures of the driveline on the net, so a model would be a good idea but by the time I got it into Canada it would probably cost more than this will be to build.

Thanks
Greg


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## jpfabricator

Im following this one. Lotza pictures brother!

Jake Parker


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## Holescreek

We still used the M274 "Mule" up into the early 80's in the Corps, I used to work on them occasionally as a Motor T mechanic.  They were lots of fun to drive around the motor pool but you didn't want to hit a lot of bumps since the only suspension was the air in the tires.  The steering column could be unclamped and rotated out so that the driver could run it in reverse while walking behind it using a hand to control the brake and gas. There are lots of views available on the net.


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## mzayd3

looks like it could be a good, fun project!


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## f350ca

My bud delivered the tractor for me today. The thing was built like a tank, ashamed to cut it up, the front grill and front of the hood are cast iron.




The rear end looks hefty, the wheel stance is actually 36 inches and I want about 42 so 3 inch spacers shouldn't be a problem.




Want to test the hydrostatic drive before I put too much energy into this.
Had to cut away some of the frame and remove the hood and grill to bolt the new engine in.




Need to make up a coupling between the engine and drive shaft for the test.




One glitch, the driveshaft ran off the fan end of the engine so I'll be spinning it backwards off the pto end, shouldn't be a problem but the speed is lower in reverse, hope its only accomplished in the linkage. 

Greg


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## f350ca

Just thought of something that may be a problem. If I spin the input to the transaxle backwards the charge pump that feeds the system will be running backwards. Anyone have any experience with the internals of these things?

Greg


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## xalky

That's the same model we had except that we had a manual transmission model. As far as I can remember, it was driven from the shaft end to a clutch and then to the gear box. You might have to get a different motor for it. That's a fly in the ointment!
What happens if you put the pull start towards the inside?


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## Fabrickator

I had some experience with hydro static drives when I built concrete flat-cutting machines in the early 80s  (for streets, airports).  They were designed to run in one direction only.  They did have a reversing feature that changed the valving internally.  They use a viscous fluid (silicon?) to create the friction needed to smoothly turn the driven output shaft.  Once engaged, they have the drive power of a small tank.  We had our geared for about 4mph (max cutting speed for the concrete) driven by a 35HP or 65hp Wisconsin V-4s @ 1600RPM. .  We also built a hot rod Chevy V-6/140hp model that ran through a Muncie 4-speed for deep cutting (swinging a 60" diamond blade) that used the same hydro drive unit with no problems.

I would suggest keeping things moving in the designed direction even if it means changing the motor.

Wish I had the room to build something like that, maybe someday....

Rick


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## f350ca

Well the transmission works great with a few caveats. Reversing or rotating the charge pump housing worked as I'd hoped, but as expected reverse is forward and vice versa. Goes a reasonable speed in reverse which is now forward and lightning fast in forward, which is now reverse. Can't imagine why they wanted a garden tractor going that fast but will be perfect for my application. Will stall the engine if its to reved up when you give her high gear.
So now its reverse the swash plate if thats possible OR after looking closer the input shaft goes right through the pump, so I might be able to mount the engine behind the axle and switch back to normal. The differential housing sits high but there might be enough room to get a driveshaft over it.
We're grinning.


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## jumps4

I had one just like yours and it was a brute, I used it to tow cars and boats around my storage lot. 
it's not a riding mower it a lawn tractor.
steve


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## f350ca

Started disassembling the tractor and degreased the transaxle.




That short shaft coming out of the back of the pump is the input shaft. The plan now is to mount the engine behind the transaxle (like a Porsche) and bring the driveshaft in there. All rotations will be correct then and with the engine at the back the weight will be over the drive axle and easier to service

Greg


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## xalky

That sounds like the right plan.  How's that gonna work for your cargo, and driver positions?


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## f350ca

The engine position is set by that input shaft anyway, unless I got into a long driveshaft with u-joints. The engine as is looks tall but I plan the remove the fuel tank, relocate the air cleaner and go with a separate muffler. With the cylinder sitting on an angle the actual block is quite low, so will fit totally under the cargo deck. The seat will be on top of the deck.

Greg


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## f350ca

Have the rear section of the frame made up. Have a surplus of 2 in thin wall square, so thats what we're using. Hopefully won't look too chunky.




The engine will mount on the two sections pointing this way. The transaxle mounts to the front. Hopefully have the parts mounted tomorrow.

Greg


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## xalky

Looking good! I wanna see the mock up of the rear and the engine on the frame 

Are you gonna try to use the front end components from the tractor on the new chassis?


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## f350ca

Hi Marcel, will have to fabricate a new axle, the existing cast iron one will be too narrow. Think it will be easier to start from scratch, I'd have to find cast iron material to extend it and the geometry wouldn't be right in the end.
From what I've researched the camber is simply set to place the pivot point when your steering in the middle of the tire face. Does that make sense?

Greg


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## tweinke

The axles in that cub rear end are spliced just like car axles. Remove rear cover, pull out clips and remove axle shafts. Google will give you all the answers for switching the rotation but as I remember there is a plate with angled holes that messes you up. That Sundstrand hydro unit was designed for much bigger machines then that tractor so pretty much bullet proof.


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## BRIAN

Hi Greg
 The front end geometer has to be something like this .
 camber and king pin inclination have to meet just below the point of contact to give the wheels a slight bias to turn outwards this is corrected by setting the track arms to toe in 1/8 " keeping the wheels in tension stopping them flapping about ,

The king pins must have some angle, top backwards (castor ) to make the steering self centre and stop it diving left or right on bumpy ground.






Hope this helps.
Brian


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## f350ca

tweinke said:


> The axles in that cub rear end are spliced just like car axles. Remove rear cover, pull out clips and remove axle shafts. Google will give you all the answers for switching the rotation but as I remember there is a plate with angled holes that messes you up. That Sundstrand hydro unit was designed for much bigger machines then that tractor so pretty much bullet proof.



The plan is to mount the engine behind the axle, this solves my rotation problem and puts the engine more in the open for maintenance.
Your right that drive is built heavy, just put it on the scales and it topped out at 175 pounds.



Greg


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## f350ca

BRIAN said:


> Hi Greg
> The front end geometer has to be something like this .
> camber and king pin inclination have to meet just below the point of contact to give the wheels a slight bias to turn outwards this is corrected by setting the track arms to toe in 1/8 " keeping the wheels in tension stopping them flapping about ,
> 
> The king pins must have some angle, top backwards (castor ) to make the steering self centre and stop it diving left or right on bumpy ground.
> 
> View attachment 87797
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.
> Brian



Thanks  Brian,
The way you have it shown with the camber angle meeting the centreline of the tire below the face, when the tire is steered it would have to roll slightly, around the point where the camber angle meets the face. Is that what is desired? If the camber line met the tire centre line at the tire face then it would simply spin when the tire is steered. Im thinking more of moving the steering while the vehicle is stopped. Maybe with your design its easier to steer with the tire rolling slightly than my geometry where the face has to slide.  OR does the camber angle interact and move that rotation point some where else. I sometimes have a hard time thinking of motions in 3D.

Greg


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## f350ca

Todays progress.
Bolted the rear part of the frame to the transaxle, had to make a couple of recesses to clear bolts that looked like they'd miss in the original design. After a couple of attempts I got the motor mounting plate to fit, (made a new drawing on the shop computer but read the dimensions on the print wrong, the plasma cuts out exactly what you tell it).
The good news is the  shafts line up. Will have to put a bit of a twist in the exhaust to clear the frame but that shouldn't be an issue,







Now I need to find some suitable sized tires and rims to finish designing the front.

Greg


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## Sharky

Fun project!  Here's a couple of my mini-jeep for inspiration.


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## BRIAN

Hi Greg
If you have the angles meeting at the surface the wheels are likely to shimmy like a poor supermarket trolley. the idea is to make the wheels want to turn outwards putting the joints on the track rod under tension and taking up any slackness
in the joints (even new ones) this amount of offset will not affect steering loads.
By the way the angle of the steering arms is critical to get the wheels to follow the correct path in turns (Ackerman steering ) The quick and dirty way to determine this is to take a line from the centre of the king pin to the centre of the rear axle. the arms must follow this line. the arms can be curved to clear things if necessary but the joint at end must be on this line.

Looking forward to seeing this in action.

Brian

Edit?? with the very short wheel base you may have to compromise and take a point behind the axle or it may limit the turning circle?? just look out that the  joints on the inner wheel do not pull straight and lock out on tight turns . you will need lock stops on the axle also.


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## f350ca

More progress on the frame. Im using (recycling) old tube I got a while back, think it was some form of racks or shelling. Its rusty but still has a certain amount of paint, took me an hour this morn to clean up 3, 6 foot lengths. If I valued my time it would probably be more cost effective to have bought new material.











Greg


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## f350ca

More tube cleaning and we have the size established. Had planned on 8 feet long but looks like it will be 7 foot 7 inch by 46 wide. Drilled the side rails and welded in 3/4 pipe for stake pockets, easier than cutting square holes that line up top to bottom.




Greg


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## f350ca

Been busy doing other peoples projects, got the steering knuckles cut out of 3/8 plate on the plasma table and welded up.




Greg


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## xalky

It's starting to take shape. Looking really good so far/ That thing is gonna be badass with the hydrostatic drive.:rubbinghands:


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## f350ca

Made new spindles to match trailer hubs, got to love the Hardinge for cutting threads and and producing surface finishes for the seals to run on.
The kingpins will sit at 10 deg to get the camber I need, so bored the knuckles to take the spindle at that angle.



A slight force fit and welded them in.




Hub installed.




Now its on to the axle beam.

Greg


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## f350ca

Made up the axle beam yesterday. Used 2 x 3 1/4 wall tubing for the main part, if it gets bent while Im driving this thing its going to hurt. Turned some rusty 2 inch stock to make the carriers for the  king pin bushings. Used a hole saw in the mill to cut the 10 degree pockets for the bearing mounts.



Welded them in, after pressing the bushings in had to give them a light reaming.




Made up a tie rod from 5/8 cold roll, may with to 1/2 inch pipe and weld these threaded ends in.

Greg


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## f350ca

Have the front axle pretty much finished, did a quick mock up to determine what to build for a front frame to support it.







Greg


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## jumps4

Nice work, I really like your project.
steve


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## f350ca

Finished the structural part of the frame. Now its steering linkage, brakes, throttle, and and and







Greg


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## f350ca

Not much to show for a full days work, spent the entire day bending pipe and fish mouthing braces on the basket for your feet,




Greg


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## Bill Gruby

Boy Howdy does this bring back some memories. great thread and build.

 "Billy G"


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## BRIAN

Looking at the frame for your Mule sent me hunting for old photo's of one of my teaching projects.
 sorry to hijack your thread but I think it fits.


An Austin mini engine and two Rover final drive's.




Ive seen that frame before???




 How about adding a cab.




The happy bunch that built it. ignore the bald head at the back.
.
	

		
			
		

		
	







I did enjoy teaching.  Brian.


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## f350ca

Now that is cool Brian. Would have liked to build four wheel drive into this thing but for yard use decided to keep it simple. What becomes of student projects like that? Must have been gratifying for you and the students.

Thanks
Greg


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## f350ca

Tried using the light steering box that was on the donor tractor but as I'd expected it wasn't up to the task, big problem was the ratio, only 2 turns of the wheel lock to lock. Found a small box out of Im assuming an import as it has Made in France on to. Its seen a hard life though, there was a bolt broke off in it and one mounting lugs were snapped off.
Cleaned up the break with a flap wheel.



Then built it up with the tig, I have a hard time getting nice edges so in my case more is better.



Roughed down with the flap wheel then used a file to get the mounting surface back and drilled it out.




Have most of the steering gear built, just mounting the new box now.




Greg


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## Bill Gruby

You are having way too much fun. Great project. 

 "Billy G"


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## f350ca

Seems like slow progress but guess we're making headway. Have the steering completed, the brake linkage and pedal installed and the controls to the hydrostatic drive finished. Lots of rods to thread and linkage arms to build.










Next its throttle, exhaust, and fuel tank.

Greg


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## xalky

It's coming along nicely! Nobody's timing you...lol!  Haste makes waste.


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## f350ca

Finished up the throttle mechanism, built a switch enclosure and got the exhaust system fabricated. Used what I think was a muffler off an older snow mobile, certainly quieten down the exhaust noise, now I have a loud engine.




Greg


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## f350ca

The infamous wheel spacer that broke my lathe.




Greg


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## extropic

Very enjoyable thread. Thanks for posting.


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## f350ca

The air filter that was on the engine was folded plastic, couldn't figure any way to reuse it with a remote filter. Today I whittled out and aluminum adaptor that  will cross over to ABS drain pipe to reach the new filter. Which has yet to be found.




Greg


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## f350ca

Built the air filter box and salvaged the filter cover off the old mount. The piping is done and built a trailer hitch. Made up exhaust flags and have it bolted up. The end is in sight, need to modify the choke mechanism to use a remote cable on it and probably a couple of other little things then tear it apart to paint.
I usually wash something like this down with water based degreaser then pressure wash to get any oil off before painting but given the season guess a solvent wipe will have to do.







Greg


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## TTD

Awesome project/build, Greg! Kinda reminds me of the old (4x4) "Terra-Jet" machines: https://www.google.ca/search?q=imag...d=0CDAQyjc&ei=vWqmVJTUBJa2yASDkIKQCQ#imgdii=_

Maybe you can market your creation to the Flemmings' at the golf course for their "plus-size" golfers....or a super-duty beer cart!...:biggrin:.


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## f350ca

Thanks Tod or should I say neighbour, I'd forgotten about the Terra Jet, thought they were a cool little vehicle, built way ahead of they're time. With all the side by sides now they'd probably be more popular.

Greg


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## Rick Berk

Absolutely Outstanding work, wish I was close enough to stop buy and watch you work.Thanks.
View attachment 90848


Greg[/QUOTE]


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## f350ca

When Mules Fly

Have it sanded out and hanging from the two shop cranes ready to install a coat of paint tomorrow.




Greg


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## xalky

Nice! Have you taken it for a dry run yet?


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## f350ca

xalky said:


> Nice! Have you taken it for a dry run yet?




Haven't tried it out yet. Wanted to paint the wheels before I mounted the tires and didn't want to clean the gun and the shop twice. It better work.

Greg


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## xalky

Who needs a dry run, when you have supreme confidence in your abilities. :rofl:


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## f350ca

Installed a coat of paint today. Enamel with a hardener, finished spraying a couple of hours ago but its still tacky, haven't used this particular combination before. Hoped to be assembling tomorrow but maybe not.







Greg

No idea why the transfer screw pic is coming through, doesn't show up in preview to delete it.


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## f350ca

The paint was slow to flash but seams to have hardened up nicely. Assembly is going along well. 




Greg


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## invisabledog

Looking good.  I always wanted a mule, but never did anything about it.  I use a 47 Willys CJ2A as a mule around my place.  I see you're from Calabogie.  We use to come up to that area, every year, to go fishing on Norcan Lake.


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## f350ca

invisabledog said:


> Looking good.  I always wanted a mule, but never did anything about it.  I use a 47 Willys CJ2A as a mule around my place.  I see you're from Calabogie.  We use to come up to that area, every year, to go fishing on Norcan Lake.



I restored a 46 Willys and drove it for years. Sold it when I moved up 63 model years to a 2009. They were an incredible vehicle, go anywhere, but the ride left a lot to be desired. The mule with no suspension will probably be a close second. The only time I've fished on Norcan lake was from a friends dock to catch Sunfish to put in the aquarium.

Greg


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## f350ca

Had it out for a test drive today. Works great on the ploughed drive but not so great ploughing through snow. Pretty much as expected.
Added a sheet of pressure treated plywood that has been used as a paint table a few times Functional but not pretty, may have to mill some hardwood for a proper deck.







Installed an old muffler from a snow mobile, amazing how much quieter than the stock one it is. The deck helps muffle and deflect the noise down as well.
Now we need a seat.

Greg


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## f350ca

Made up a seat today, have a cheap Chinese hydraulic pipe bender, with enough patience it does a fair job, the main frame was done from one piece of 1/2 inch pipe with the two back legs added on.




Seams quality control isn't too sure about driving it though.

Greg


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## jpfabricator

Your helper needs to shave!

Jake Parker


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## f350ca

Saddie took off with the mule as soon as I let her behind the wheel, just got back today so I got a video.
The mule and my silver screen debut.
[video=youtube;Outd7HCUn60]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Outd7HCUn60&amp;feature=youtu.be[/video]

Greg


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## mtnlvr

Nice job!! Thanks for sharing.


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## TTD

Very cool, indeed...great job, man! :thumbzup:....Sure beats using a wheelbarrow, huh?




f350ca said:


> Works great on the ploughed drive but not so great ploughing through snow. Pretty much as expected.


A set of 4-wheeler tracks would cure that right quick!...:idea2:...too bad they are so expensive.


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## jumps4

that is just too kool
maybe you can puts some tire chains on it for deeper snow
how well does it stop?
stewve


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## rbertalotto

JUST WAY TOO COOL!!!!!!

BTW, if others want to build one, Surplus Center has all kinds of new / old stock tractor drive systems and hydraulic steering components. A bunch of EMT, a pipe bender a motor from Harbor Freight and you'r in business!


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## xalky

Pretty awesome!  How much money you figure, you got in it?


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## dulltool17

As they say in New England...."Wicked Friggin' Awesome!"


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## f350ca

Thanks for the great comments guys.
Been using it the last couple of days to haul firewood out of the swamp behind the house. With the controls up front I can walk along with it and back into some incredibly tight spots between the trees. I hauls about a half face cord of wood with no trouble, but need to get some racks built. That wood seat is some cold on the tush though.
In the end it cost close to $1000, buying the engine, tires, wheels, front hubs, Lovejoy couplings, paint etc. Hadn't planed on new tires and wheels but couldn't find used when I needed them. All the steel was used material I had here.
Guess its a success, will get more use in the summer, will be really useful at the sawmill to have the deck to sort and haul lumber as its cut.
Thanks for watching
Have some cabinets to build now (helps fund these projects) then its a firewood processor or a heavy bowl lathe.

Greg


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## xalky

$1000 ain't bad. I know how these things can rack up when you don't have junk piles to pick from. Pretty darn cool, and a one of a kind at that.


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