# At what point are you considered a "Machinist"?



## Investigator (Jul 22, 2020)

I'm starting with an assumption, specifically that a person could go to a trade school for training and after graduation could rightfully consider themselves a machinist.  Also I assume a person could enter into some type of on the job training apprenticeship and at some point in the future when they make journeyman status would consider themselves a machinist.  What about a hobby guy?  At what point does a person go from being the owner of a machine to being considered a machinist?  Is it when you buy a machine?  If not then, when?   I believe we are always learning and that there is always more to learn, so we should never stop improving our abilities and capabilities.   

I would be very proud to consider myself a machinist, which at this point I can't consider myself one.  But what does it take?  Just thinking out loud here.


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## silverhawk (Jul 22, 2020)

I think that when you get your machine, you become an owner. Once you have successfully manufactured something, you can call yourself a machinist. Once you sell something you manufacture or take a job from outside for money, your are no longer an amateur, but a pro. You can still be considered a hobbiest if you are a pro.

In my life of work, we call them associates, staff, senior, and consultant. Even if you are a beginner or an apprentice, you can still be classified as a machinist.

joe


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## DavidR8 (Jul 22, 2020)

Interesting question, I call myself an aspiring machinist, welder etc...


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## pontiac428 (Jul 22, 2020)

I just go with hobby machinist or machining hobbyist.  I mostly do work and make things for myself and a few friends, and if any of them have something to say about the work that was done I can ask them what they might think of someone else's work next time.  Oh, a "machinist" would have access to an expansive tool crib and a good tier at the metal supplier that I don't.


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## kb58 (Jul 22, 2020)

I'd say someone is a machinist if they make a living at it.

I'd use the same definition for other things that differentiate a hobby from a career/job. For example, if you drive a sports car on a race track, does that make you a race car driver? No. Does drilling a hole in a piece of metal make you a machinist?

I say the label is worthy when money is exchanged for the skill.


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## macardoso (Jul 22, 2020)

I feel like there are a plethora of requirements to being a machinist, here is a small sample:

Break ?? taps in your workpiece (bonus points if in the final operation)
Remove ?? taps successfully from your screwed up workpiece 
Drop a really pretty part on the floor the moment you are done making it thanks to oily hands
Drill holes in the wrong spot on non-replaceable stock and repair them
Fill your first 50 gal. drum full of chips
Break an endmill after packing the flutes with aluminum chips
Learn a new swear word during your first time cutting 300 series stainless
Realize that you bought a machine that is too small
Realize you are spending a lot more than you anticipated on tools
To be continued....


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## Investigator (Jul 22, 2020)

kb58 said:


> I'd say someone is a machinist if they make a living at it.
> 
> I'd use the same definition for other things that differentiate a hobby from a career/job. For example, if you drive a sports car on a race track, does that make you a race car driver? No. Does drilling a hole in a piece of metal make you a machinist?
> 
> I say the label is worthy when money is exchanged for the skill.



I guess I look at from as being a skill set, not being a job description.  However, your definition has merit.


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## Boswell (Jul 22, 2020)

I am certainly and owner. I am also a hobbiest. I would probably not introduce myself as a machinist unless I has significant more experience. Several years of day in/day out machining work.  I have been using my Mill and Lathe for 7 or 8 years but to call me a machinist would be a knock against all of the machinist that have thousands of hours of machine time and problem solving time.   For now and the foreseeable future I am at best a Hobby Machinist.  But Hey, that is just me. I don't think that there are any universal standards on the use of the work Machinist.


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## DavidR8 (Jul 22, 2020)

Maybe aspiring can be subbed out for amateur. Certainly in my case amateur carries a less than positive meaning as in "My work is amaterish"


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## alloy (Jul 22, 2020)

I've been doing this for almost 30 years now and when I look at some of what the old timers did with manual machines amazes me.  I'm spoiled, I've been a CNC guy since the start.  I'm trying to figure out a 7 start thread for my cnc lathe I'm buyng, and somehow back in the 50's they did it on a manual machine.  

I wouldn't have a clue how to do what they did, so even though I've been paid to make everything from aircraft parts, motorcycle parts, car parts, medical, and even grave markers I'm not sure I can really call myself a machinist.  

I feel I'm just a lucky guy that gets to play with expensive big boy toys that few get the opportunity to.


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## pontiac428 (Jul 22, 2020)

According to Merriam-Webster, we're all machinists here...

ma·chin·ist | \ mə-ˈshē-nist  \
*Definition of machinist*

1a*: *a worker who fabricates, assembles, or repairs machinery
b*: *a craftsman skilled in the use of machine tools
c*: *one who operates a machine
2 archaic *: *a person in charge of the mechanical aspects of a theatrical production
3*: *a warrant officer who supervises machinery and engine operation


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## BGHansen (Jul 22, 2020)

Webster's definition is below:  a person who operates a machine, especially a machine tool.  Pretty broad description, huh?  Probably best to leave it vague since pretty much every job description includes those who can and can't, but get to hold the same title.

My definition would be someone who can competently run the major machine tools (lathe, mill, grinder, etc.), make parts that meet the drawing and do it safely.  Experience is a great teacher; amazing how many tips and tricks you pick up after doing this stuff for a number of years.

Bruce


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## benmychree (Jul 22, 2020)

I would raise the bar, compared to what has already been suggested; I do not believe that just attending a trade school entitles one to the title of machinist, after graduating, I think that after several years of trade experience in industry, the title would be earned, as journeyman machinist.
There is a wide difference between trade school and a formal apprenticeship, where you go to night school for the technical part of learning, and the daily practical experience on the job, the apprenticeship teaches the basics, and the journey (leaving your apprenticeship job and journeying around to other shops for more varied experience), completes the education.  I would not be adverse to the term "hobby machinist", and I have seen a good amount of quite fine work done by hobbyists with little formal training, mostly self taught, but could they go out into the real world and hold a job doing whatever work they are assigned to?  Maybe not so much.
Personally, I did the formal apprenticeship, worked a total of about seven years in the same shop, left due to layoffs, found another job doing machine work and industrial refrigeration for another three years, then went into the machine shop business for myself, and continued along that path until I retired after about 35 years in business; I did not do much journeying, in the sense of a journeyman machinist, but still, I claim to be one!  I have my shop at home, and still do the occasional paying job, and lots of playing around with several projects, when I'm not sitting in front of the computer all too many hours of the day.


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## benmychree (Jul 22, 2020)

BGHansen said:


> Webster's definition is below:  a person who operates a machine, especially a machine tool.  Pretty broad description, huh?  Probably best to leave it vague since pretty much every job descriptions includes those who can and can't, but get to hold the same title.
> 
> My definition would be someone who can competently run the major machine tools (lathe, mill, grinder), make parts that meet the drawing and do it safely.  Experience is a great teacher; amazing how many tips and tricks you pick up after doing this stuff for a number of years.
> 
> ...


I agree with your personal definition, at least for the most part, but would add to the machinery list; shaper, planer drilling machines, boring mills ---


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## silverhawk (Jul 22, 2020)

I know we've kept the definition fairly broad in how we all feel, but i have one more thing to mention. You will effectively be a machinist when you hit that point of injuring your finger on some part and being more worried about the end finish than getting a bandaid. There is a level of acceptability in your work that rises with your experience. A valuable and seasoned machinist is willing to look at a part they just made and toss it to the rubbish pile even if it would work and met the specifications, just because it didn't look perfect. There is the inherent "job well done" factor that differentiates what we would call a "machinist" from a parts producer.

If you have begun to find yourself thinking about something not being good enough or being too simple, you are either a machinist or an engineer. 

joe


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## Mitch Alsup (Jul 22, 2020)

A) I am only a hobby machinist:: however

B) machinist builds (some of) his own tooling--I built a Die-wrench that came out great--but I am still not a machinists.

C) There are levels of accomplishment (listed above) going from entry, hobby, apprentice, ..., consultant which should be attached to the word 'machinist' until you are being paid regularly for performing said unit of work.

D) a machinist build a multiplicity of parts that fit together the first time--this by the way requires measurement skills.


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## Boswell (Jul 22, 2020)

I may not know what a Machinist is, but I will know one, when I see them.


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## aliva (Jul 22, 2020)

A machinist to me is one who is able to use a varied series of metal forming, cutting machines. He's able to operate with proficiency and skill, a mill, lathe, surface grinder, seat cutter, the list goes on. Here in Canada where I live, a machinist must apprentice for10,000 hours ( 5 years). They are then allowed to write the licensing exam. If they achieve the minimum score they are a machinist in that area ( province). If they exceed the minimum and score above 80% they receive a red seal certification, which is recognized in all provinces and jurisdictions in Canada.  I don't consider myself as a machinist, just a hobbyist, constantly learning. Although I do have a read seal certification as a HDEM and Millwright.


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## Mtnmac (Jul 22, 2020)

All good points.  
I worked in the trade for 40 years before retiring, and the definition changed dramatically in that time.  Nowadays, you see ads for ”CNC Machinist”.  And they want someone who can set offsets, load programs, make minor changes to the program if necessary, and inspect the part.  That’s a far cry from what it used to be.  I would define a machinist as a person who needs no instruction other than a drawing to make the part.  Capable of creating the order of operations, selecting tooling, building tools and fixtures if necessary,  setting up and running the job, and inspecting it when done.


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## deakin (Jul 22, 2020)

this topic kinda sounds like that old saying:

"dirt bikes & mtn bikes will break my bones but NAMES will never hurt me"


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## pontiac428 (Jul 22, 2020)

My mom thinks I'm a good machinist.  So there!


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## mmcmdl (Jul 22, 2020)

43 years ago I couldn't even spell Macheenest , and now I are one ! 

I have to say I've seen some top quality work on this site from many so- called hobbiests . The majority of all on board could most likely qualify to come work in my company , ( if I could only get you there )


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 22, 2020)

I would say that a home shop "machinist" would probably never meet the trade level definition of the term. It's just not possible to get the broad exposure to the different types of machines, materials and work that a professional in the trade encounters. Ad to that the fact that your employment and livelihood depend on being able to not only make the parts right (the first time) and within the time allotted creates a different kind of machinist. This is why I regularly find myself chiding members in this group about chasing unnecessary perfection. I lost count of the number of machinists I had to let go because, while they could do the work, they just couldn't make me any money. "You do nice work...... damn little of it, but nice work."


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## pontiac428 (Jul 22, 2020)

Suppose you're right, @MrWhoopee.  If we all met the stringent 10,000 hour certified definition of the term, then we'd be "machinists at home" rather than "home shop machinists"!  I mean, in my shop I am a machinist.  Come over and tell me otherwise.


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## Investigator (Jul 22, 2020)

Many years ago, about 1990 or so I worked for a machine shop.  I was assigned to Texas Instruments in Dallas working as a contractor paid by the machine shop in Garland.  I didn't run any machines, I was an electronic and assembly tech.  Basically a entry level assembly and wiring guy.  What amazed me is the machinist we worked with at TI.  I have seen people take a drawing on a scrap piece of paper to him and he made it and made it to spec as called out.  I guess in my mind that's what I consider a machinist.  He had a lathe and mill, and access to the welding shop downstairs.  He worked with stainless, aluminium, brass, plastics and probably other things.  He is the one who taught me how to sharpen a drill bit on a grinder by hand.  I'm not as good as he was, but i'm still trying.


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## Mtnmac (Jul 22, 2020)

MrWhoopee said:


> I would say that a home shop "machinist" would probably never meet the trade level definition of the term. It's just not possible to get the broad exposure to the different types of machines, materials and work that a professional in the trade encounters.


I would say that varies widely between shops.  I was fortunate to work in a shop that had manual, CNC, toolmaking, moldmaking, heat treating, punch press work, diemaking, and welding.  All under one roof.  I was fortunate to be exposed to it all, and become proficient in most of those.  That's pretty hard these days with the specialization of shops.  Many people work in manufacturing and don't get much exposure beyond what's required to make the CNC run.  That's not so bad, working your way up to a programmer pays pretty well.  Many of the home shops are much more diverse.  Haven't seen a shaper since I was in trade school except in home shops.


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## vtcnc (Jul 22, 2020)

I agree with the sentiment that a Machinist is someone who can take a print and produce what is intended using machine tools, raw materials, select tooling, make tooling, fixtures and can measure and inspect parts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## higgite (Jul 22, 2020)

pontiac428 said:


> According to Merriam-Webster, we're all machinists here...
> 
> ma·chin·ist | \ mə-ˈshē-nist  \
> *Definition of machinist*
> ...


I have to disagree with the MW dictionary. IMHO....
1a is a mechanic, or a millwright in some cases, but not a machinist.
1b is a machinist. Key word in that definition is "craftsman". Look up craftsman.
1c is an operator, not a machinist, unless he also qualifies as one under definition 1b. Turning the wheel on a coffee grinder doesn't make you a machinist, although some machinists are quite adept at turning the wheel on a coffee grinder.

A machinist is a different animal than a hobby machinist. If you have to ask if you're a machinist, you aren't. 

ymmv

Tom


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 22, 2020)

Mtnmac said:


> Many people work in manufacturing and don't get much exposure beyond what's required to make the CNC run.


This is why an experienced machinist is (was) called a journeyman. He had "journeyed" to many shops, learning a wide variety of skills and techniques. The term machinist has been cheapened by applying it to machine operators who load parts and push the buttons, or programmers who wouldn't have a clue how to use a manual mill or lathe.


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## alloy (Jul 22, 2020)

pontiac428 said:


> My mom thinks I'm a good machinist.  So there!



My wife looks at problems and the solutions I come up with and the parts I design and make to overcome them and thinks I'm a genius.

 But then she doesn't know anything


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## benmychree (Jul 22, 2020)

And add to the qualifications, make usable parts on worn out machinery (speaking of my apprenticeship shop).


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## Janderso (Jul 22, 2020)

I agree with all of you that said you need a very good knowledge base be it from a trade school, working under a master or had been in an apprentice environment. Then, spend 40-50 hours a week in the profession for 5-7 years working at your trade.
Now you are a professional machinist.
IMHO anyway.


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## mmcmdl (Jul 22, 2020)

I apprenticed in a very large job shop , supposedly the largest on the east coast at the time . We had just about any machines available . The machinist apprenticeship was 8000 hrs , and the toolmakers was 10000 hrs . I completed both . On top of working everyday , we had to go to the colleges at night . Not many of those who got into the program actually finished due to the schedule . I have journeyman's machinist and tool and die makers papers , both a thing of the past . I have worked for most shops or performed work for most in the Baltimore area . I'm sure I've forgotten more than I retain at this point but I don't consider myself a full time machinist any longer . I troubleshoot , manage a shift , do mechanical work and also make replacement parts when needed . I still get many machinist offers but I can't see myself running a machine all day or night .


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## Winegrower (Jul 22, 2020)

A machinist is one who machines something.
A good machinist is one who machines something good.
A great machinist doesn’t need a print, an engineer, fancy tools, a huge shop, a big budget, etc.
I say we are all great machinists.


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## silence dogood (Jul 22, 2020)

Here are two utubes that may answer your question, guys.
"So God made a machinist" by shopdogsam
"So God made manufacturing" by Okuma America Corporation


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## Manual Mac (Jul 22, 2020)

I have worked running manual lathes & milling machines & as a certified stick welder for about 40 rears.
I thought I was really good until I saw some of the model engines built from scratch on this site.
Really gives a guy some perspective.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jul 22, 2020)

if you can proficiently operate multiple types of machine tools on varying materials AND make parts to stringent specifications- 
you are a machinist regardless of the title you give yourself.

i always thought of titles like machinist, mechanic, magician & grand pooba- as something someone else gives you, not something you give yourself


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jul 22, 2020)

BAM!


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## Nutfarmer (Jul 22, 2020)

I don't care what anyone calls me. I care if my parts fit and my equipment runs. What's in a name? I have seen work from some of the members here that surpasses anything some of the so called machinists I have worked with. A piece of paper is just that. The real proof is the quality of work performed.


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## tq60 (Jul 22, 2020)

We are a machine operator...

Something breaks and we find scraps of stuff to make a replacement.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## derf (Jul 22, 2020)

It's not a definition so to speak, it's a state of mind.
When you find yourself chucking up on a #2 pencil and sharpening it with a file cuz the the 14 pencil sharpeners you already have won't make a point sharp enough.
You judge everything you pick up at the hardware store to "estimate " how much steel is in it, compared to plastic and other materials.
When you tear something apart, you turn into Sherlock Holmes, detecting just how something was made, right down to the machine, operation and the size of endmill used.
Warranties mean nothing to you.
You have a love/hate relationship with engineers.
Your shop is just tidy enough to find what you are looking for and needing to do. A clean barn is a sign of no horses.
Seems like every tool and other items you buy, needs an "upgrade" right off the bat.
We don't need no stinkin' prints.....just a few key dimensions. If you lose your pencil, a paper towel and a greasy fingernail will suffice.


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## Bi11Hudson (Jul 23, 2020)

A valid question, and one I was quite willing to pass on. But I had to log in to answer a technical question below so got involved. I claim many crafts to my credit, mostly as a "jack leg" and "old school" practitioner. Since I have had an engineering degree since 1984, I can legitimately claim to be (have been) an Electrical Engineer.

But before, and since, I have been an Industrial Electrician. That has been my mainstay since I quit school in the '60s. The only "official" recognition I have _ever_ had was in the mid '70s as a Master in Putnam County, Fla. And then only because I was "grandfathered" in when they instituted a permit system and I was working there at the time.

I have had a small lathe and milling machine since 1969, while I was still on active duty. That lathe has been all over the world. . . I now have a small machine shop at my disposal. There is *nothing that I can't make, within my own limitations* and the size of the machines. I mostly make my own parts, as and when they are needed

What else needs to be included? I've laid block, and brick. Not all that pretty, but wind and watertight. And seemingly structurally sound, it's been around for 30 years and hasn't cracked or sagged under load. There was the "flivver truck", a '49 Chev 1 ton that I rebuilt and kept running for years. The current project is a '68 Chev C-30. It's slow going this time because of the wheelchair. Then there is carpentry, I have literally built houses that people lived in. On one job, I "bested" the architect where he was calling for a custom built timber and when I suggested an alternative, he quickly approved it. Using common framing lumber from a lumber yard. But my finish work is just "what it is". It isn't all that pretty, but covers the framing work.

In any and all of these endeavors, I never claimed to be an "expert" or "Journeyman" *anything*. Just doing what needed doing, without all that silly a$$ed paper work. And what work *has* been inspected, was passed first time. So, in my own shop, I am a machinist. Outside of there, I'm not even an apprentice. As with electrical work, any craft if properly driven from the heart, not the pocket book, and done properly, you can call yourself an expert. Journeyman and Master are artifical titles, no more.

.


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## Downunder Bob (Jul 23, 2020)

Many of the above are close to the mark in a general sort of way. and obviously there are some differences between a journeyman machinist in industry and a damn good machinist in the hobby sense. The true journeyman machinist can use with competence all of the various machines such as, a lathe, mill, both horizontal and vertical, shaper, planer, surface grinder, cylindrical grinder, tool and cutter grinder, pantograph, radial drill, jig borer, Including selecting and sharpening the correct tools Would certainly be able to hand sharpen a drill bit, and a variety of lathe tool bits. And using these skills make a variety of parts fro drawings holding the tolerances as specified, at least to .0001". 

A hobby machinist may be somewhat limited in the available choice of machines, but in my opinion should be competent with at least couple of them, particularly a lathe and a mill, being able to do milling processes on a lathe would be acceptable, I'd also include being able to hand sharpen a drill bit, and some basic lathe tools, e.g. left and right turning screwcutting, including internal, multi start threads, at least two starts, Parting off. And of course all the associated measuring and hold a tolerance of at least .001"

By this definition many of the members here who have not had formal training would in my opinion qualify for "Hobby Machinist"

DownunderBob.


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## FOMOGO (Jul 23, 2020)

Call me anything you want, just don't call me late for dinner. I guess in the end I qualify as a dilettante. I know a little bit about everything, but not much about anything. I know I see some great work here, so perhaps we can open up an "honorary" title classification for those of us who aren't the real deal. Cheers, Mike


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## higgite (Jul 23, 2020)

FOMOGO said:


> I know I see some great work here, so perhaps we can open up an "honorary" title classification for those of us who aren't the real deal.


You mean sorta like a participation trophy?  

Tom


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## bakrch (Jul 23, 2020)

When I entered the trade in 1995, the retiring tool & die makers I worked with were "machinists".  Gods is more like it,  those guys were amazing.

I've reached the highest machinist classification within a global corporation,  but kinda laugh because I'm still nowhere near the guys that trained me.  I suppose 20 more years of challenging myself could get me close?

There isn't really a standard for education in the states anymore in a professional setting.  It is common for most to just lie on their resume, then sink or swim in the position.

10,000 hours is a pretty good threshold, but those hours must be spent at a higher quality than simply pushing a blinking button on a CNC, while loading parts into a hydraulic fixture.

Believe it or not, the average hobby machinist is probably more competent than the modern pro counterpart.  It's all about low skill/wage production anymore, with very little room for advancement.

Anecdotally speaking, most machinists have no passion or desire to improve. They are perfectly happy doing the same thing day after day and whine when anything upsets the status quo.


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## alloy (Jul 23, 2020)

bakrch said:


> Believe it or not, the average hobby machinist is probably more competent than the modern counterpart.  It's all about low skill/wage production anymore, with very little room for advancement.



At my last job we had a guy that about 35 and had worked running CNC's for over 10 years.

I was busy with my work so they gave him a job I normally ran since I did all the oddball hard to set up jobs.   He asked me how I held it to machine it and I said in a 3/8" 5c collet and collet closer.

He asked me, "What is a 5c collet"

When I talked about it to my boss he just shook his head.  I ended up running the job on overtime.


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## bakrch (Jul 23, 2020)

alloy said:


> At my last job we had a guy that about 35 and had worked running CNC's for over 10 years.
> 
> I was busy with my work so they gave him a job I normally ran since I did all the oddball hard to set up jobs.   He asked me how I held it to machine it and I said in a 3/8" 5c collet and collet closer.
> 
> ...


Yep, I stopped documenting setups years ago because of questions like that.

It's not that I mind explaining the difference between, say a double angle and ER style collet ... it's about the 5th time answering the same person that makes my left eye start twitching.

Not 1 person cares about learning, and those who did were treated as outcasts and left.  Sad really.


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## aliva (Jul 23, 2020)

An engineer designs machines, a machinist makes it work.


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## frankly2 (Jul 23, 2020)

I agree with the comment “If you have to ask if you're a machinist, you aren't.” 
Many years of operating and maintaining a variety of machines will put you in consideration to be called “journeyman”. However, to be called ”machinist” requires one to be qualified to build, design, repair, maintain and operate virtually any machine. Not too little short of “Mechanical Engineer”.
One capable of any type of operation that would be necessary In the field of machine use. IMHO....... But then I only started in 1952, so I guess I have some time to go yet !


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## Aaron_W (Jul 23, 2020)

Manual Mac said:


> I have worked running manual lathes & milling machines & as a certified stick welder for about 40 rears.
> I thought I was really good until I saw some of the model engines built from scratch on this site.
> Really gives a guy some perspective.







bakrch said:


> When I entered the trade in 1995, the retiring tool & die makers I worked with were "machinists".  Gods is more like it,  those guys were amazing.
> 
> I've reached the highest machinist classification within a global corporation,  but kinda laugh because I'm still nowhere near the guys that trained me.  I suppose 20 more years of challenging myself could get me close?
> 
> ...




I find there is often a large difference in skills between those working in a profession and those doing it for themselves whether as a hobby, small business or just necessity (like a farmer or rancher using welding equipment and machinery to keep the equipment running). Not necessarily better, or worse but it is different doing it for yourself and doing it in a workplace with others, and subject to rules and requirements. 

I've done a lot of DIY home repairs and consider myself pretty handy. I even had a job when I was in college doing handyman work for a guy who had a couple of apartment complexes. I've done projects with guys who have worked in the trades and while I can do a lot of the work, working with guys who have really done it I saw how much I would be a liability on a job site. I only know how to work as a one man show. A real carpenter, electrician, plumber, drywall guy etc knows how to work around all the other people doing their thing. They can do their job off to the side, get in to install it quickly and then get out of the way. They know what parts to complete and what to leave unfinished until later. 

I'm a hobby guy, I can weld, machine a part, wire an outlet, install a dishwasher, work on my car or build a fence, but I am not a welder, machinist, electrician, plumber, mechanic or a carpenter.


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## mikey (Jul 23, 2020)

So, what does one call a person who has a passion for metalworking with machinist tools? Passion enough to spend years and years learning about his machines and everything pertaining to them? He may not have every machine there is but the ones he does have, he knows inside and out and he knows everything about the tools he uses to run them. What do you call a guy who studies on his own to understand hydraulic systems, physics, electronics and multiple other subjects just so he can complete a tool that he designed for himself that no one else will ever see, just for the sheer pleasure and enjoyment it brings? We often talk about tolerances and such but some folks work to ridiculous tolerances just for the challenge of seeing if they can do it, and when they do it they can enjoy a quiet moment of triumph, just for themselves. This kind of guy may not ever be a "pro" but that is not the goal; the goal is self fulfillment, happiness, passion, learning, personal growth and achieving a level of competence in his area of interest that satisfies his own standards. 

To me, that is a hobby machinist, working all alone and doing it for years on end, not for a label or title but for the sheer and simple joy of doing it with his own hands, his own skills, and becoming more than he was. 

Being called a machinist implies having done the training, the apprenticeship and the years in the trade it takes to become a pro. The same can be said for doctors, lawyers, carpenters and so on. Because you dabble in machining does not make you a machinist because you haven't paid the dues. 

But you can be called a hobby machinist. To me, that's not so bad.


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## deakin (Jul 23, 2020)

my grandpap got a diploma that said he was a machinist

so i guess it's like the wizard of oz...... what do those machinist have that you don't? a diploma. here......


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## hman (Jul 23, 2020)

Just a general comment here ... I like everything I've read.  Even if I disagree with some points, it's nice to see a vigorous but friendly discussion going on.

Can you imagine what kind of flak would happen on "some of the other forums" if anybody asked such a question?


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## projectnut (Jul 23, 2020)

My thoughts are in line with those expressed by MrWhoopee, Benmychree, Mikey, Frankly2, and a few others.  To me you have to walk the walk before you can talk the talk.  The titles Machinist or Tool & Die Maker are earned through years of education and hard work.  

The shop I worked in had several outstanding machinists that could make what ever you wanted from a sketch on a napkin.  Not only that they could grasp the concept of what the designer was trying to accomplish they could offer suggestions for upgrades and improvements before a print was ever made.  I can recall times when guys in the shop would make a part far superior to the original design.  The boss would sometimes send a draftsman to the machine shop to make a drawing from a part rather than send print to the shop to have a part made.  

These were some extremely talented people.  I stayed as close to them as I could.  Everyday was a learning experience.  I was probably the most disappointed person in the company when I got a promotion.  While the pay was better I had to move out of the shop to a cubicle on the 5th floor.  It put a huge damper on my learning process.  On the other hand I think I could have stayed in the shop for another 20 years and still never learned 20% of what those guys knew.

The finest example of a Machinists Machinist I can recall was  a few years ago when my wife and I visited Los Alamos.  We went through the museum  housing photographs and documents of many of the primary participants in creating the atomic bomb.  Of all those people the one that impressed me the most was a machinist.  He had built a high speed camera capable of 10,000 frames per second from a hand full of photographs.  The camera was used to film several of the experiments and eventually the testing of the bomb.   I have always been in awe of people with those talents and abilities of comprehension.

With over 20 years of learning experience on the shop floor, and several years supervising a machine shop I would never call myself a Machinist.  There's a huge difference between being able to operate the machines, and being a Machinist.


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## alloy (Jul 23, 2020)

projectnut said:


> There's a huge difference between being able to operate the machines, and being a Machinist.


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## mmcmdl (Jul 23, 2020)

bakrch said:


> Believe it or not, the average hobby machinist is probably more competent than the modern pro counterpart. It's all about low skill/wage production anymore, with very little room for advancement.



I absolutely agree with this statement . Everyone is now considered a machinist if they can push the green cycle start button on a cnc mill or lathe . Give them a job outside of that envolupe (sp) and they're lost . This has been going on for a long time now . I got out in 99 because of this reason , the large companies didn't want real machinists to set-up ,  program , and run the jobs . They wanted a mechanical engineer , a programmer and a button pusher , or they just subbed out the crap overseas .


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## BGHansen (Jul 24, 2020)

+1 on bakrch's comment.  We have a nephew who is now a "CNC machinist".  Completed a little under 1 year program.  "Jack of all trades"?  Not so much.  But he does know a G0 from a G1 from a G41, etc.  Also is pretty good at CAD, but is sooo inexperienced in everything else.

I understand and accept that technology changes, mostly for the better.  I made all of the cabinetry in our house in 1993.  Also, have at least one stick of furniture made in my shop in each room.  Used a joiner, table saw, thickness planer, air nailers, router/shaper, etc.  Then I'll watch an episode of the "Woodwright's Shop" starring Roy Underhill and shake my head.  Great to see how it was done 100+ years ago; thank God for the technology that let me bang out the raised panel doors in a fraction of the time.  Yeah, not as "crafty" as someone filing a piece of steel for a plane to manual cut in the profile, but we wanted our cabinets done within my lifetime.

The rhetorical statement "follow the money" is apropos for "modern" machinists.  It's got to be tough for US-based companies to compete against government-subsidized foreign manufacturers with much lower labor rates.  Our tool and die makers at work completed an apprentice program of at least 8000 hours.  That's 40-hour weeks, 50 weeks a year for 4 years.  Lots more study/work time than any Bachelor's degree.  Businesses are looking for production, not craftsman-made jewelry.  Any of us on this forum with CNC equipment can attest to the benefits and time savings of that tech.  Think "John Henry was a steel-drive'n man" vs. a steam engine drill.  He won the battle but lost the war.  The suppliers of our auto parts are up against the same wall, they have to get production numbers of good parts and don't care if a rocket scientist or a CNC machine made them as long as they're producing good parts per schedule and at or under budget.

Yet another plus side of this forum is we are keeping the older tech in use and "out there" for the current generation to see.  It's great to see some old tech like a Sorenson Center Mike, Starrett 104/107 speed indicator, or some old foot-operated lathe in use.  Our nephew occasionally putters in my shop and is a sponge for old school stuff.  It's somewhat funny to see his jaw drop when he looked at a dividing head (for example) and asked "what's that?"  He'd run circles around me cutting gears with a 4-axis on the CNC vs. me on a Bridgeport doing it manually.  At least in his case he's interested in seeing how it used to be done which does add to his arsenal of techniques to throw at a job.  Maybe in 20 years he'll be a "real" machinist though personally I'd consider it an insult to the guys & gals who completed the 8000+ hour apprentice programs.

Bruce


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## projectnut (Jul 24, 2020)

BGHansen said:


> +1 on bakrch's comment.  We have a nephew who is now a "CNC machinist".  Completed a little under 1 year program.  "Jack of all trades"?  Not so much.  But he does know a G0 from a G1 from a G41, etc.  Also in pretty good at CAD, but is sooo inexperienced in everything else.
> 
> I understand and accept that technology changes, mostly for the better.  I made all of the cabinetry in our house in 1993.  Also, have at least one stick of furniture made in my shop in each room.  Used a joiner, table saw, thickness planer, air nailers, router/shaper, etc.  Then I'll watch an episode of the "Woodwright's Shop" starring Roy Underhill and shake my head.  Great to see how it was done 100+ years ago; thank God for the technology that let me bang out the raised panel doors in a fraction of the time.  Yeah, not as "crafty" as someone filing a piece of steel for a plane to manual cut in the profile, but we wanted our cabinets down within my lifetime.
> 
> ...



Several years ago I had the pleasure of meeting a number of shop owners from the Detroit area that were doing contract work for the auto industry.  One of the fellows brought along some samples of the things his shop was making.  Among them were brake bleeder screws.  He was currently making them on several B&S screw machines at the rate of 1 part every 2.5 seconds.

He lamented that he either had to find a way to speed up his current machines or purchase some new ones that were faster.  At the rate his current machines were producing he was in danger of either loosing the contracts, or not making a profit.  His calculations revealed he had to get the production time down to 1.8 seconds per unit to retain the contracts and make a profit.  The average contract was between 1,000,000 and 3,000,000 parts.

In this case time is literally money, and fractions of a second do count.


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## silverhawk (Jul 24, 2020)

I had to do some math.  Getting parts counts down from 2.5 seconds to 1.8 seconds doesn't sound like much.  But, with a part count of 1,000,000 parts, that 0.7 seconds yields 700,000 seconds, or just over 194 hours.  At an average shop rate of $60-80 per hour, that results in a savings of between $11,640 and $15,520 .  At 3,000,000 parts, that savings would be 583 man hours, or between $34,980 and $46,640 .  Yeah, at that scale, fractions of a second can be costly.


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## pontiac428 (Jul 24, 2020)

The shop I worked at had about 2,000 sf dedicated to 100 year old B&S screw machines.   All belt-driven and converted to 460v now.  They were real money makers for the shop, and there were only about 3 guys that could set them up across 3 shifts.  IIRC, it was all IGT slot machine parts being made on those machines.


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## Technical Ted (Jul 25, 2020)

When I ask someone "What do you do (or did you do) for a living" and they tell me they were a machinist, my next question is always, "What did you do for a living"!

Being a "machinist" can mean so, so many different things. To me, the classification of "being a machinist" has many subtitles and caveats. We all have a tendency to use terms like this based on our own personal experiences and background... A man who was a master manual machinist (in my mind) would have a different definition than a man who cut their teeth in a CNC shop and looked up to the CNC setup man, who, in their eyes, was a "master". Two different worlds. And neither is wrong.

For most of the guys on this list, if you can look in the mirror and reflect back on what you have learned over the years, you will know if you are a machinist or not. And that's all that is important.

Ted


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## Bi11Hudson (Jul 25, 2020)

As I stated in a simplified text on electricity (http://www.hudsontelcom.com/uploads/ShopElex.pdf) about the "state" regarding electricians, that same statement applies to most "craftsman" related skills. Machinists, carpenters, auto mechanics, welders, most any true craftsman is regarded in a "generic", semi-related, field. Licensing, *if a licensable field*, is based on general terms at best. An auto mechanic is considered as such if he knows how to change the spark plugs. A machinist is considered as such if he knows how to make a piece for a lawnmower.

The *"titles"* generated by society in general are, for the most part, *meaningless.* I am considered an electrician, but don't know squat about, say, power line work. The same applies to machinist. Someone can make a part on a lathe, yet has never touched a milling machine. I consider myself a *machinist in my own shop* but outside of there I am no more than an apprentice, if that.

A friend told me about a young man from a "trade school" applying as a machinist at a machine shop. The "old man" says to "cut this piece into 4 equal parts" whereupon the young man goes through the set-up, quite quickly. Then halts, and standing there, asks "where's the computer?". *Skill in one thing does not prove skill in another, for any craft.

.*


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## 7milesup (Jul 25, 2020)

Very interesting discussion. 
Many times I find that a "hobbyist" is far more knowledgeable in whatever their passion is than the "professionals".  That being said, I would never consider myself a machinist, especially considering the education and apprenticeship requirements for a machinist or tool and die maker. 
I would not consider a "machinist" and "CNC machinist" as the same in any regard. 
I am a pilot (retired).  When I respond to someones query on what I did for a living and I say "pilot", they assume airline pilot.  I then must explain that I flew private jets around the Western Hemisphere, a job significantly more difficult than an airline pilot flying point A to B to C for the day.  Both of us are pilots, but very different demands within the scope of what we do.

Also, remember that today is going to be "the good old days".


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## middle.road (Jul 25, 2020)

7milesup said:


> Very interesting discussion.
> Many times I find that a "hobbyist" is far more knowledgeable in whatever their passion is than the "professionals".  That being said, I would never consider myself a machinist, especially considering the education and apprenticeship requirements for a machinist or tool and die maker.
> I would not consider a "machinist" and "CNC machinist" as the same in any regard.
> I am a pilot (retired).  When I respond to someones query on what I did for a living and I say "pilot", they assume airline pilot.  I then must explain that I flew private jets around the Western Hemisphere, a job significantly more difficult than an airline pilot flying point A to B to C for the day.  Both of us are pilots, but very different demands within the scope of what we do.
> ...


Yeah, but... if I were on a flight and something strange happened to both the pilot and co-pilot, I wouldn't mind it if you happened to be in passenger cabin. - Just sayin'


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## derf (Jul 25, 2020)

7milesup said:


> When I respond to someones query on what I did for a living and I say "pilot", they assume airline pilot.  I then must explain that I flew private jets around the Western Hemisphere, a job significantly more difficult than an airline pilot flying point A to B to C for the day.  Both of us are pilots, but very different demands within the scope of what we do.
> 
> Also, remember that today is going to be "the good old days".



Sometimes it is better to be vague about what you do. I've been a full time gunsmith for over 30 years, and when I'm asked what I do for living, I just say "machinist", especially when I'm in a strange crowd. You never know what kind of re-action you'll get saying "gunsmith". I've never experienced a negative re-action so far, but when someone hears"gunsmith", it's usually followed by 40 questions and a lengthy conversation I don't want to get into.


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## JimDawson (Jul 25, 2020)

For me, I think it depends on which hat I am wearing on a particular day.  I never did call myself a machinist, I just use machine tools sometimes to make stuff


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## Grinderman (Jul 25, 2020)

When you become arrogant enough to join Practical Machinist.


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## projectnut (Jul 25, 2020)

Grinderman said:


> When you become arrogant enough to join Practical Machinist.



I don't think you have to be arrogant to be a member of the Practical Machinist board.  I've been a member there far longer than I've been a member here.  There are some hot heads, and some very opinionated people on that board as well as many others.  The main problem as I see it is new members either don't read the rules, or don't feel they have to follow them.

One of the primary rules is no discussion of hobby grade, or foreign machines, yet almost every day I see an brand new member's first post asking about a Rong Fu mill or a Harbor Freight bandsaw.  Some members have little tolerance for those that choose not to follow the rules.  Keep in mind that board is geared to the professional.  They discuss professional grade machines, work practices, methods, and other topics of vital interest to running a business.  I've yet to see any of the banned machines in a professional shop, and for the most part agree that they should be discussed elsewhere.

I have had spirited discussions with members and moderators on that board about exactly what constitutes a "professional grade" machine.  At one time no discussion was allowed concerning Seneca Falls lathes or Racine power hacksaws.  In fact the subject of any power hacksaw was forbidden.  I calmly laid out the literature and advertising brochures for both machines noting that they both were marketed to the "professional" audience rather than hobbyists.  After about a week of back and forth, with other members weighing both machines were allowed to be discussed in the "Antique" forum.

There's plenty of good information to be gleaned from that site.  Over the years I have had personal discussions with many members, and bought a number of items from some.  I have been able to purchase a second set of collets for my Seneca Falls machine and blades for my power hacksaw.  I also purchased  my Sheldon lathe from a member, and a wrench for the chuck from another.  All items were purchased for far less than the same items were available from eBay, Craigslist, industrial vendors or any other source.

Please don't lump everyone on that board into the same group.  Just because a person is a member of that board doesn't necessarily mean they're arrogant.  They're no different than any other cross section of the American public.


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## ddickey (Jul 25, 2020)

@Investigator, I served w/a machinist. I knew a machinist. A machinist was a friend of mine. Investigator, you're no machinist.
I couldn't resist. LOL


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## Boswell (Jul 25, 2020)

projectnut said:


> Please don't lump everyone on that board into the same group. Just because a person is a member of that board doesn't necessarily mean they're arrogant


good and fair point


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## Grinderman (Jul 25, 2020)

projectnut said:


> I don't think you have to be arrogant to be a member of the Practical Machinist board.  I've been a member there far longer than I've been a member here.  There are some hot heads, and some very opinionated people on that board as well as many others.  The main problem as I see it is new members either don't read the rules, or don't feel they have to follow them.
> 
> One of the primary rules is no discussion of hobby grade, or foreign machines, yet almost every day I see an brand new member's first post asking about a Rong Fu mill or a Harbor Freight bandsaw.  Some members have little tolerance for those that choose not to follow the rules.  Keep in mind that board is geared to the professional.  They discuss professional grade machines, work practices, methods, and other topics of vital interest to running a business.  I've yet to see any of the banned machines in a professional shop, and for the most part agree that they should be discussed elsewhere.
> 
> ...



You’re correct, not everyone there is like that, but a lot are. I find it very offensive that that feel it’s beneath them to answer a question about a machine because of the nameplate on it. It’s like a NFL player not answering a high schoolers question. i’ll bet he played high school football at one time. There are a lot of great machinists there but also some poor human beings. Much, much better experience here.


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## projectnut (Jul 25, 2020)

The first day on the job in a machine shop I learned to have thick skin and not be intimidated by coworkers. I wasn't in he shop an hour when this crusty fellow came up to me smoking a cigarette.  He promptly blew smoke in my face and made the following statement.  "We took a pole among all the machinists, and decided we didn't want you to join the group".  I looked him in the eye and said, "It's fortunate for me that it wasn't your decision to make".  I didn't get offended, I didn't loose my temper, and I didn't even raise my voice.

Ten minutes later all was well.  He was only trying to test my resolve, and see my reaction.  We worked together another 15 years before he retired.  In a former life he was a high school industrial arts teacher.  He was a great instructor and taught me things I would have never stumbled across on my own.  I'm glad I met him and worked with him.  It never would have happened had I  lost my temper.

Over the years I learned there are a lot of proud people in the profession.  Some don't have quite the social graces of others, but they all have skills that make them valued employees, and can be good friends if you let them.


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## Grinderman (Jul 25, 2020)

When I first started at the tool and die shop it was the same way. Most of the old timers would help you out in anyway they could while others wouldn’t give you the time of day. I just hate that “holier than thou” attitude in the shop or any walk of life. Too old for that BS


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## mmcmdl (Jul 25, 2020)

projectnut said:


> The first day on the job in a machine shop I learned to have thick skin and not be intimidated by coworkers.


LOL , the first day in my machining life I snapped the ram off of a keyseating machine . I met everyone in the plant pretty quickly !  Luckily , I was not the one who set the machine up .


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## 7milesup (Jul 25, 2020)

Projectnut...
I respect and value your opinion and insights on this board.  I have learned from you.
But, the difference between this board and Practical Machinist is this.  
This board is welcoming and very tolerant along with tremendous insight on machining. A few bad apples mixed in.
PM is outright hostile, arrogant and filled with Prima donna's.   With a few good apples mixed in. 
I no longer visit PM.  I no longer tolerate arrogance nor liars in my life.  I have no need.


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## 7milesup (Jul 25, 2020)

middle.road said:


> Yeah, but... if I were on a flight and something strange happened to both the pilot and co-pilot, I wouldn't mind it if you happened to be in passenger cabin. - Just sayin'


Some day you are going to get on an airplane with no pilot.  Just the autonomous "Otto Pilot".


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## Investigator (Jul 25, 2020)

ddickey said:


> @Investigator, I served w/a machinist. I knew a machinist. A machinist was a friend of mine. Investigator, you're no machinist.
> I couldn't resist. LOL



Oh I have no doubt of this


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## silverhawk (Jul 25, 2020)

Investigator said:


> Oh I have no doubt of this



You guys crack me up.  Or maybe slitting saw a relief in me.  Frankly, I don't know, I'm not a machinist.  I play one in my dreams, though!


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## projectnut (Jul 25, 2020)

silverhawk said:


> You guys crack me up.  Or maybe slitting saw a relief in me.  Frankly, I don't know, I'm not a machinist.  I play one in my dreams, though!



You can always get to be a machinist by staying at a Holiday Inn or playing one on TV.  I tried the Holiday Inn route for several months when we were building production facilities in Missouri and California.  In my case it didn't help.  When I got back to the shop I was just as ignorant as when I left.


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## 682bear (Jul 25, 2020)

I don't know if this is relevant to the discussion...

I was trained to operate manual machines in a job shop while I was in high school... after I graduated, I started college working toward a degree in Mechanical Engineering. It didn't take me long to figure out that I simply wasn't that interested in being an engineer.

I left college and (eventually) enrolled in a technical college and earned a Machine Tool Technology certificate. I worked for a few years as a machinist, (job title, not a self-imposed title) but just couldn't seem to make enough money to live on.

In 1997, I caught a break and landed my current job as a 'machinist' in a facility that overhauls commercial aircraft engines... making significantly more money.

The downside is, I am locked into mostly being a machine operator, running a CNC Vertical Lathe, with some fairly simple manual mill and lathe work thrown in occasionally...

Several years ago, I began realizing that I had forgotten more about true machining than I remember. That bothered me somewhat, so I finally bought myself a lathe, mill, surface grinder, etc, etc,... and have been attempting to 'prove' to myself that I can still somewhat function as a 'machinist'.

Interestingly enough, I had a discussion with a coworker last week about whether we thought we could go to work in another shop as a 'machinist' and be successful... I would like to think so, but I just don't know...

Bottom line... I have never considered myself a true machinist... but the company that I work for does, and they pay me pretty well to be one. I guess that will have to be good enough for me.

I'm hoping that I will be able to stay where I'm at long enough to retire, and never have to find out if I can still be competent as a real machinist.

I do claim to be a 'hobby machinist', though...

-Bear


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## Boswell (Jul 26, 2020)

I feel more like a "Maker" than even a "Hobby Machinist".  My skills are wide and shallow. I learn enough to make what interest me at the time whether it is electronics, programing, PC Board layout, CNC or manual milling and lots more. but I don't hardly spend any time learning more than what is needed to complete the specific project. Although I have paid the bills in the past writing software, designing and building industrial control computers, I was still very limited in my approach. Thus Not an Engineer and Not a machinist.  Just a Maker.


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## middle.road (Jul 26, 2020)

7milesup said:


> Some day you are going to get on an airplane with no pilot.  Just the autonomous "Otto Pilot".


I'm a techno-geek, however I'm not so sure I could get on that plane.
It's going to take one hell of an effort in programming to match a human pilot's skills in an emergency situation.
I've been flying since my grandfather took me up at (3). Been in a few 'hairy' flights both in private and commercial.
In that since I'll have to claim 'Old School', I want a human at the controls.


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## middle.road (Jul 26, 2020)

7milesup said:


> Projectnut...
> I respect and value your opinion and insights on this board.  I have learned from you.
> But, the difference between this board and Practical Machinist is this.
> This board is welcoming and very tolerant along with tremendous insight on machining. A few bad apples mixed in.
> ...


That sums it up perfectly and accurately. 
I posted twice there when I got my Logan way back when. And I got flamed to hell and back.
You'd think with the effort someone puts into a 'flame' post it would be easier to just answer a Noob's question.
I saw a post a couple of years ago over there by @george wilson where he replied to someone's post in his usual succinct and knowledgeable manner.
He was flamed. You come to realize that there's a large number of frustrated individuals hanging out there.
There's several 'good apples' - no doubt, but they are few and far between.


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## projectnut (Jul 26, 2020)

middle.road said:


> That sums it up perfectly and accurately.
> *I posted twice there when I got my Logan way back when. And I got flamed to hell and back.*
> You'd think with the effort someone puts into a 'flame' post it would be easier to just answer a Noob's question.
> I saw a post a couple of years ago over there by @george wilson where he replied to someone's post in his usual succinct and knowledgeable manner.
> ...



I'm surprised anyone over there would give you grief about a Logan lathe.  There are over 1,500 threads (not posts) on Logan's dating back to 2005.  The fellow I bought my Sheldon from is a member of that board.  At the time I bought my lathe he was also selling a Logan he had rebuilt.  I was considering it as a second machine.  However since it was close to the same size as my Seneca Falls machine I decided to pass on it.  If Hadn't already had the Seneca Falls I would have definitely purchased it.  

Here's a picture of the Logan I was considering:




As an after thought did you possibly mention the name Wards or Montgomery Wards along with the name Logan?


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## middle.road (Jul 26, 2020)

projectnut said:


> I'm surprised anyone over there would give you grief about a Logan lathe.  There are over 1,500 threads (not posts) on Logan's dating back to 2005.  The fellow I bought my Sheldon from is a member of that board.  At the time I bought my lathe he was also selling a Logan he had rebuilt.  I was considering it as a second machine.  However since it was close to the same size as my Seneca Falls machine I decided to pass on it.  If Hadn't already had the Seneca Falls I would have definitely purchased it.
> 
> Here's a picture of the Logan I was considering:
> 
> ...


No, didn't mention Wards at all. It's a pure-bred Logan 210.
It was a simple question, had to do with a jammed up back gear lever. The little key that drops down was buggered up.
This was in the late '90s. A Logan 210 was not worthy of their vaulted forums and I was told that in no uncertain terms.
Nowadays it's a different story. Amazing what Ad revenue does for determining what's 'allowed'.


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## mikey (Jul 27, 2020)

Gentlemen, one of the forum rules is to not make disparaging remarks about other forums here on our site. While I know some of us have had unpleasant experiences on PM, let's leave them there and not rehash them. I want to steer the discussion back to the OP's original intent ... please.


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## Investigator (Jul 27, 2020)

mikey said:


> Gentlemen, one of the forum rules is to not make disparaging remarks about other forums here on our site. While I know some of us have had unpleasant experiences on PM, let's leave them there and not rehash them. I want to steer the discussion back to the OP's original intent ... please.



To get us back on track, my original idea was to try to find out what it takes to consider myself a machinist.  I'm nowhere near a point that I would call myself that.  But I wondered about a course of study, or a set of skills that I would need to work toward.

I'm happy just to have the equipment and be able to do what I do so far.  I'll always be learning and looking for more.


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## projectnut (Jul 27, 2020)

Investigator said:


> To get us back on track, my original idea was to try to find out what it takes to consider myself a machinist.  I'm nowhere near a point that I would call myself that.  But I wondered about a course of study, or a set of skills that I would need to work toward.
> 
> I'm happy just to have the equipment and be able to do what I do so far.  I'll always be learning and looking for more.



You might want to check with your local technical colleges.  The one in our area offers evening classes for hobbyists, and those wanting to learn how to operate manual and CNC machines.  It doesn't cover all the subjects like strength of materials, or required math, but it does give hands on experience with instructors who are at the minimum Journeymen in the trade.

I took a couple evening courses at ours when I was looking for a surface grinder.  A local vendor alerted me to the fact that they had over a dozen different brands and models that could be used during the evening classes.  Over the course of a semester I tried them all.  As you might expect I became spoiled.  I gravitated toward the most automated, most expensive one in the shop.

Reality hit when I started pricing them out.  In the end I purchased a totally manual machine.


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## middle.road (Jul 27, 2020)

When I took an evening course way back when, Basic Tool & Die design, the Instructor paused me on my project to sharpen end mills on the SG.
That's what I ended up doing for the rest of the course... 
Same thing happened in high school shop class. Must be a knack that I have. Wish I knew what that 'knack' was...


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## mikey (Jul 27, 2020)

Investigator said:


> To get us back on track, my original idea was to try to find out what it takes to consider myself a machinist.  I'm nowhere near a point that I would call myself that.  But I wondered about a course of study, or a set of skills that I would need to work toward.
> 
> *I'm happy just to have the equipment and be able to do what I do so far.  I'll always be learning and looking for more.*



No, not a machinist but definitely a hobby machinist. I wonder if you realize how much more capable you are compared to the regular guys out there. I don't mean just your ability to run a machine. I mean your thought process, depth of knowledge about a wide range of subjects and so on. Yeah, you're just a hobby guy but you are also much more than that!


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## metalmagpie (Jul 28, 2020)

I don't use the term machinist. I call myself an industrial hobbyist.


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