# Atlas Horizontal mill



## 34_40

I located a horizontal mill, model MF, ser. number 000556,  for sale about an hour away from me and am curious if anyone would have information they might be able to share.

I realize it's a small machine but I'm just a hobbyist and it does have a lot of bits / cutters / tools with it.   What might a value be for something like this?  I realize that's a bit arbitrary but, it must have some dollar value? 

Thanks in advance for any help you might offer! )


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## Inflight

Check the QCGB for functionality in all speeds.
Look for any missing or bent hand wheels.

I've seen Atlas mills sell for between $400 and $800.  

If this is something you need, then go for it, otherwise it might be worth while to search for something with a universal table which swivels to permit helical milling, like a Burke #4.


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## cjtoombs

Around here (California) one in good shape with lots of tooling would probably go for 1000-1200.  I purchased one last year that looked pretty bad, but was in fairly good mechanical shape and cleaned up nicely that included the 7/8 Arbor and a vise for about 500, and I was giddy.  They are a neat little mill, and in my opinion a step above the Chinese mini mills.  Of course, it's easy to be a step above a $500 milling machine when the inflation adjusted price these went for in 1939 was more like $5000.  They (most) come with power feed, which I frankly think is essential on a milling machine.  I haven’t gotten mine completed and running yet (so many things have gotten in the way), but I am actually working on it now, and hope to have it completed and running soon.  There is also a brusque trade in parts and accessories on EBay, if you are missing anything.  I was missing a few small parts, and through patience and perseverance managed to score them, as well as a 1" arbor on eBay for reasonable prices.  There seems to be a business in buying these mills and parting them out and asking outrageous prices on eBay as well, but if you wait, the parts and accessories will come along at reasonable prices.  I'll caveat that by saying you will NOT get an original vise, rotary table or dividing centers for a reasonable price, these normally go at auction for ~150, ~350 and ~350, respectively, on auctions.  I expect the machines will be lower priced in your area, as there seem to be more of these tools there, so I would expect 500-1000 depending on what shape it is in and what tooling is included.  Good luck.


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## 34_40

Thanks for all the great advice and info!  The seller is helping the owner who is 93 and a former machinist. He has it in his basement and since he's all alone, the neighbor (seller) agreed to help him by listing it on C-list.  I cannot get over there until Saturday so we made an appointment.

In the pictures, he has tools and cutters laid out across a table top and since he's a retired machinist who had a small home shop, who knows what else he may have and be willing to sell! 

Oh, the price is 1200 and if the unit is as nice as it looks in the pics, I felt comfortable with it and the tooling.  And it seems like it's in the ballpark from what is shown above.


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## wa5cab

There are three different Atlas horizontal mills, and four versions of each, so a total of 12.  The first ones built were 

M1 (sometimes incorrectly listed, even in Atlas documents, as the MI) with only manual (hand wheel) table feed.
MF with power table cross feed and manual on the other two axes.
MH with lever actuators on cross feed and table lift and hand wheel on the other axis.

Then there are four variants of each with one major (or obvious) and several relatively minor differences "*" means "1", "F" or "H")

M*    16-speed
M*A  12-speed (most if not all still say M* on the nameplate and can only be ID'd by serial number)
M*B    8-speed
M*C    Also 8-speed but with an improved outer arbor support.

I generally agree with the various price comments given below except that on the three main accessories I would have said $250, $350 and $450 or more for vise, indexer and rotary table (the rotary table seems to be the rarest).  The mills very seldom turn up on the Texas Gulf Coast.  I gave $750 for an MFA in Michigan with index head and tailstock.  It had a known problem with the back gears.  I also bought an incomplete MFC for parts for $700 because it came with an original steel cabinet and drip pan.  So I'm counting the mill as $350. 

The fourth major accessory, which Atlas never built, is a vertical head.  There are several variants, some driven off of the Atlas spindle and some with a separate motor.  All of the latter version that I've seen have been home-built.  They tend to cost about as much as the mills.

Robert D


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## 34_40

Thanks Robert D.!  In my original post I mentioned it is model MF, ser. number 000556,  do you perhaps know someone/somewhere who can use the serial number to know the year of manufacturer?

Now I'll have to go look at the pictures again to see if the vice is there. )


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## cjtoombs

That's a pretty low serial number.  I don't know of a way to date by serial number, but only the very earliest (1941-1944) came with the 16 speed drives.  Check out Tony's site, there is some good info on it, as well as the shaper and the lathes.  Google lathes uk.


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## 34_40

I just now got an e-mail from the seller and he notified me that they sold the mill to someone else....   sigh...  I guess appointments don't mean a thing to some.. :thinking:


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## cjtoombs

Bummer.  Well, keep your eyes open, you will find another or something similar if you keep looking.  I've got a whole shop full with nowhere left to put another machine, and I'm still looking


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## Dave Smith

34_40 said:


> I just now got an e-mail from the seller and he notified me that they sold the mill to someone else.... sigh... I guess appointments don't mean a thing to some.. :thinking:



I find that you have to be ready to act fast and have cash to make a good buy--or others will take it away---you can now maybe put a wanted to buy small mill ad in CL and see what comes up---maybe a much better deal--keep looking---Dave


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## wa5cab

34-40,

Sorry to hear that someone bought it out from under you.  But to partially answer your question anyway, the mills first appeared in the Atlas 1941 catalog as 16-speed.  I'm looking for a 1942 catalog to check but in the 1943, the machines are 12-speed.  According to Atlas the first MFA was at S/N 1345.  Subject to adjustment depending on what I find in the 1942 catalog, my guess would be that the one you tried to buy was made in late 1941.

I have a small database of Atlas machines, gleaned from several sources.  However, there are only 3 mills in it and none of the owners apparently knew the date that the machine was built.  And unlike the 10: and 12" lathes, no one has ever said anything about the spindle bearings have dates on them.  So original invoice would be the only other clue besides spindle speeds.  And I haven't seen any report of anyone having that.

Robert D.


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## LJP

I guess I am the guy that bought the mill you had your eye on. I went down with cash yesterday. Paid the asking price, they were not budging on the price. The actual owner is 93, going into the old age home, I felt bad for the guy. A neighbor is making all the deals, and watching out for him. There are more tools to be sold, but the prices will be high.
The mill is in excellent condition, very little use. I will post pictures on another thread.
Larry


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## 34_40

LJP said:


> I guess I am the guy that bought the mill you had your eye on. I went down with cash yesterday. Paid the asking price, they were not budging on the price. The actual owner is 93, going into the old age home, I felt bad for the guy. A neighbor is making all the deals, and watching out for him. There are more tools to be sold, but the prices will be high.
> The mill is in excellent condition, very little use. I will post pictures on another thread.
> Larry



No sweat Larry, glad it went to a good home.  I'm not working near home this week so I set up a call and meeting and was left with the impression that it was mine.  And I'll admit I'm disappointed, I was actually after a Bridgeport, so I'm nothing if not flexible! )


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## LJP

Glad there are no hard feelings! The neighbor was actually a bit agressive. Everything I picked up to look at, he put right back in the spot it came from. I asked to borrow a wrench to take the motor off, and he took it back as soon as I put it down. Had to ask for it again to take the next 3 bolts off. I think he thought I was going to steal it. 
The little rotary table was not on the bench of tooling that he wanted to include. After my nephew and I carried everything out to the truck, he offered me the little rotary table for $200. I passed on it, but told him it should have been in with mill stuff.
As I stated before, there will be more tools for sale, but I won't go back.


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## 34_40

LJP said:


> Glad there are no hard feelings! The neighbor was actually a bit agressive. Everything I picked up to look at, he put right back in the spot it came from. I asked to borrow a wrench to take the motor off, and he took it back as soon as I put it down. Had to ask for it again to take the next 3 bolts off. I think he thought I was going to steal it.
> The little rotary table was not on the bench of tooling that he wanted to include. After my nephew and I carried everything out to the truck, he offered me the little rotary table for $200. I passed on it, but told him it should have been in with mill stuff.
> As I stated before, there will be more tools for sale, but I won't go back.



That's kinda funny in a way..  because the neighbor told me his name was Paul...  then in one of his e-mails he signed it as Dirk..  then in another e-mail he said a different name!

The owner was said to be Ralph.. but later he said Ted...  SO I wonder what their names really are?? :roflmao:   Shame the world has to be like this..   But you got a nice mill and I hope you enjoy it!  Good Luck with it! :drink2:


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## LJP

The names I was given was Paul, the neighbor, and Ralph, the owner.


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## Bradrock

I've had one of these for several years & I LOVE it!  I paid $300.00 & now they seem to be all the rage on Ebay at least. I've seen several go for $1,200.00 to $1,500.00!
I wish I could afford an original vice or degree wheel & tailstock. But as mentioned they go for more than I paid for the mill!
The vertical atachment would be fun also. I've copied a lot of the pics off Ebay & I don't think it would be that hard to make one up. I think they go for around $600.0!

I just bought the Rudy Kouhoupt video & really am enjoying it. It's high dollar too! But fun enough  that I might buy the one of his South Bend 9" lathe.
The small Atlas lathes have the same spindle threads & you can find a drill chuck for them. 1" x 10 tpi.  Also steep priced! Heh..Heh


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## 34_40

LJP said:


> The names I was given was Paul, the neighbor, and Ralph, the owner.



LJP, did Ralph contact you?  He called me the other night saying he found some parts for the mill..  I kept trying to interupt him as he wouldn't stop talking! :roflmao:



When I finally got a chance to talk I explained to him that I didn't buy it! He said......  OH! Sorry! :holdphone:  :whistle:
:whistle:


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## wa5cab

What parts did he have?  Someone ought to get them.

Robert D.


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## LJP

34-40, no I haven't heard from him, I will try to get in touch. Thanks for the tip.


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## VSAncona

I'd love to see some photos if you have a chance. I just bought one of these in January and I'm in the process of tearing it down for cleaning and reassembling.


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## LJP

I will post some pictures! I think I am just going to clean it up. Not going for the full tear apart, unless I find something I am not expecting.
Larry

How about pictures of yours?


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## VSAncona

Here you go:

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php?t=19962&p=169950#post169950


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## LJP

Mill looks nice! 
I am missing all the guards, but I got a lot of tooling with mine. Will try to get some pictures up this weekend.


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## VSAncona

I didn't get much in the way of cutters, but I did get some other bits and pieces. I'll see about adding a photo to my other thread.


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## 34_40

LJP said:


> 34-40, no I haven't heard from him, I will try to get in touch. Thanks for the tip.



He has a bunch of "stuff" on C-list again.  I think some of it would work with the mill you bought.  But his prices have gone way up!:whiteflag:


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## 34_40

Well.. in a strange twist of fate..  I bought the mill that got away so many months ago!:victory:

LJP found another Atlas Hoz'l. Mill and contacted me if I wanted to buy the other.  So today I went to his shop and did the deal! WooHoo!!! hew:

Heck of a nice guy for thinking of me and one heck of a nice shop! I think I drooled over every machine there! :lmao:   I'll bring it home Saturday and doubt I'll sleep a wink 'til then! HAH!!:jester:

Thanks Larry (LJP) you're a standup guy and I'm proud to know you! :man:


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## LJP

Mike, thanks for the kind words! I felt you should have first shot at it and I am glad you were the one to end up it! Boxes are packed, mill is ready to load when you get here. See you Saturday morning.
Larry


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## 34_40

LJP said:


> Mike, thanks for the kind words! I felt you should have first shot at it and I am glad you were the one to end up it! Boxes are packed, mill is ready to load when you get here. See you Saturday morning.
> Larry



Can't tell you how excited I am! I won't sleep a wink tonite! :roflmao:


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## VSAncona

Pics! We need pics!


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## 34_40

VSAncona said:


> Pics! We need pics!



:rofl: I'll see what I can do about that..:rofl:


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## 34_40

Okay, let's see if I can figure out how to load pics!  As requested here's the mill I purchased.







- - - Updated - - -

And some more...


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## VSAncona

Wow, you got a vise AND a rotary table! I'm envious!


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## 34_40

VSAncona said:


> Wow, you got a vise AND a rotary table! I'm envious!



I paid DEARLY for that rotary table but I had to have it! :roflmao:


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## cjtoombs

I've been thinking about building a Rotary table for mine.  I did a CAD model of the one for the shaper from pictures on the internet and specs from the Atlas Catalog, I expect it's pretty close to the factory one.  The base on the one for the mill is different, and more complex.  I'd appreciate some close up pictures of it top and bottom, and measurements, if you've got the time.


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## 34_40

cjtoombs said:


> The base on the one for the mill is different, and more complex.  I'd appreciate some close up pictures of it top and bottom, and measurements, if you've got the time.



We should be able to gather that data...  Won't be right away, I've got a few projects that I need to deliver first.   Then I need to build a bench / base for the mill and then I want to breakdown and clean everything, including the rotary so that'll be a good time for pictures and measures.


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## Kroll

34,your all set to go.Pick up lots of goodies with the mill,I bet that table was cheaper than ebay.Congrats on a very good collection---kroll
CAD of the rotary table would be fantastic


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## 34_40

Thanks Kroll....   it is a good assortment and a good starting point!  Can't wait for the setup / cleanup to be finished and then make some chips!


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## 34_40

A question for those that have changed already..   I see some folks have changed to the Link Belt system already instead of replacing the rubber drive belt.

I also see a red Link Belt and a green Link Belt....   I assume the color difference is from differing manufacturers..

SO for those that have already done it, can I ask where you purchased yours and what part number(s) were needed?  TIA :whistle:


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## 34_40

I stumbled across this and thought it might help some of us doing cleanup..   http://bluechipmachineshop.com/bc_blog/rebuilding-an-atlas-horizontal-milling-machine/


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## Kroll

Neat,book mark it.Thanks 34 for the info----kroll


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## 34_40

I'm not certain yet but....  I picked up a clausing vertical mill yesterday and may be selling the Atlas! 

HMmmmm.. decision, decisions...:thinking:


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## wa5cab

*Re: Atlas Horizontal mill and Link Belts*

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular but I want to point out that just about every post I have ever read where someone was extolling the superiority of link belts over V-belts was written by someone who had replaced a hardened and worn-out 50 to 70 year old V-belt with a new link belt and found that it ran better.  Surprise surprise!  The fact is that a new link belt won't run any smoother or quieter than a new good quality V-belt and won't last as long.  I don't know the exact figures but Link belts will have around 1/3 or 1/4 the load rating of an equivalent V-belt and will be much more prone to slippage, especially the smaller ones.  They are also not reversible.  

The link belt was originally marketed for emergency repair purposes.  A factory with 40 different size belts in service might not want to stock spares for all of them as belts don't have an infinite shelf life.  So they might be convinced to stock enough links to replace several of the longest belts in service.  Also, if replacing a V-belt requires significant machine disassembly, the ability to get it back up and temporarily running more quickly in order to finish a job that was on it would be a selling point.  But outside of those two points, link-belts have no other ones in their favor and several not in their favor.
NOMEX ON!  ) 		


 

Robert D.


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## Terrywerm

I have always used the right belt for the job instead of the 'one size fits all' link belts for the very reasons that you brought up, Robert. I will not even attempt to use one as the secondary drive on my drill press or on my Clausing mill, there is just too much tension on the belt when gearing way down into the slower speeds, where you need the best power transfer that you can get.

I don't keep extras on hand either. My drill press is 20 years old and is still using the original belts. My lathe has a new vee belt for its primary drive, but uses a flat belt for the secondary drive. My Clausing mill received new belts when I bought it two years ago.  I do keep a list of belt sizes, lengths, and standard belt numbers on hand though. Easy enough to look up when I do need one, and they can all be purchased at the local hardware store except for the flat belt for the lathe.

Sorry guys, I'm just not sold on the link belts, especially at what they cost compared to the proper belt for the machine.


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## AlanR

*Re: Atlas Horizontal mill and Link Belts*



wa5cab said:


> The fact is that a new link belt won't run any smoother or quieter than a new good quality V-belt and won't last as long.


I don't find that to be the case, I don't know about the lifespan but they for sure reduce vibration (even compared to new V-Belts). There is no single cord running through the belt.


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## wa5cab

That's primarily because they are stretchy.  If you have an out of balance pulley or worn out bearings on your countershaft or an out of balance motor, a V-belt will in fact transfer some of the vibration to the next stage.  But you should fix the problem properly, not apply a BandAid.

Robert D.


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## iron man

I don't know about the vibration part but as for how long they last mine is 25 yrs old and still looks like new I would say that is as good or better than a V belt. And mine gets used a lot so I don't really buy that. Ray


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## VSAncona

I'm also not a fan of the link belts. I've used them on a few pieces of woodworking equipment, mostly because years ago they were hyped up in all the woodworking magazines as being so great. But I think they are much noisier than standard V-belts. As far as reducing vibration -- I think they just mask it. Replacing bearings and worn out parts and making sure pulleys are aligned is a better way to deal with vibration, in my opinion.

The link belts are bulkier than standard belts so if you run one on an Atlas lathe, there can be issues with the belt rubbing on the inside of the belt guard. The material used in link belts is also somewhat abrasive and they wear out the zamak pulleys faster than rubber v-belts. The only real advantage I see to the link belts is that you don't have to pull the headstock spindle to replace the belt. But honestly, if you're replacing a worn out, 50-year-old rubber V-belt, it's probably a good idea to pull the spindle out to inspect the bearings anyway.

I know a lot of people really like the link belts and if they are getting good results from them, then there's no reason to change. I just don't happen to be one of them.


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## 34_40

It has been quite a while since I've done much but today I did set the motor back onto the mill and replaced the wires for the motor and flipped the switch and it works. :rofl:

I started making a small bench to set it on also.  Still need to come up with the belt sizes if anyone has'em I'd appreciate the info! :talktogod:

The parts breakdown shows them as MI-57A and MI-58A I believe...   Still much cleaning (and learning) to do but we're closer!  This machine doesn't take up much room and it looks good next to the 8520 Clausing! LOL..  Maybe I'll just hang onto it!.. :makingdecision:


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## 34_40

I was all excited to report the little MFC made chips yesterday!  But I see some others have done so much more with their Atlas Mills this week..  :lmao:

I really wanted to evaluate for myself what this mill sounded/felt like before I made some decision about it's future.  So I only figured I'd at least get it running as a working unit is worth more than a static piece.

So I went to Harbor Freight,  a 40 minute trip, and for 24 bucks got a 1/2" link belt.  After letting the shop warm up for 3 hours ( got it to 58!) I went at it.


I made up the belt and began short runs and testing things and what the levers did etc. etc.  I setup the arbor with a 5/32 cutter and clamped a piece of aluminum to the table and let her go.  It runs really smooth and quiet! Made a small pile of chips and the best cut depth was .050 and the .006 feed.  any faster and the link belt slips.

One thing I figured out was the link-belt doesn't allow for swapping between the pulleys, it's to thick to get easily between the mount and the pulley.  


So I made some progress..  I think I'll explore the machine some more and watch how you guys get'em pretty! :rubbinghands:


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## VSAncona

There's nothing wrong with using it first to see if you like it. No sense in putting a lot of work into it until you know that, especially if you have that Clausing mill standing by.


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## 34_40

AWww.. who's kidding who! We both know it ain't ever leaving! :rofl:

In the pile'o'parts that came with it was a piece that I figured out must've been an attempt to make the table kick out device. It's a bit short so I started making a roller that mounts on the side but it doesn't work smoothly... I'll have another go at it later.

I have a bunch of tooling but I cannot see a logical way of mounting these, so I'll "just have to" tinker with it some more! :shush:


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## 34_40

cjtoombs said:


> I've been thinking about building a Rotary table for mine. I did a CAD model of the one for the shaper from pictures on the internet and specs from the Atlas Catalog, I expect it's pretty close to the factory one. The base on the one for the mill is different, and more complex. I'd appreciate some close up pictures of it top and bottom, and measurements, if you've got the time.



Let me know if and when you're ready and what you'll require first. I'm thinking this could be a fun and educational task.


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## 34_40

I spent a couple of hours making parts for a drawbar.  I have an extra MT2 1/2" collet and it seems that the previous owner had many 1/2" arbors with different cutters attached.  One thing that "bugs me" is the drawbar fastener is set down inside the machine.  I didn't like that so I made up a bushing 3" long that brings the head of the drawbar up out of the machine.  Once I finish it I'll share a pic..  (should it work as intended!):lmao:


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## cjtoombs

34_40 said:


> Let me know if and when you're ready and what you'll require first. I'm thinking this could be a fun and educational task.



I have since purchased a complete and unmodified rotary table.  I will still have to take some measurements and make a model, as I also purchased one for the mill that was modified for production work and will need a new rotating table made for it.  So basically I have what I need to get the dimensions now, I just need to do it.  Thanks for the offer, though.


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## 34_40

cjtoombs said:


> I have since purchased a complete and unmodified rotary table. I will still have to take some measurements and make a model, as I also purchased one for the mill that was modified for production work and will need a new rotating table made for it. So basically I have what I need to get the dimensions now, I just need to do it. Thanks for the offer, though.



That's cool..  it could've been a learning experience.  Maybe next time.:rubbinghands:


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## itsme_Bernie

34_40 said:


> Can't tell you how excited I am! I won't sleep a wink tonite! :roflmao:



Man, that's exactly how I get too!  Hahhah, now I know I'm not alone hah hah


Bernie


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## 34_40

itsme_Bernie said:


> Man, that's exactly how I get too! Hahhah, now I know I'm not alone hah hah
> 
> 
> Bernie



Dang...  you mean there's 2 of us??  :lmao::rofl:


Thanks for the smile!


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## 34_40

Got the drawbar just about done and tried it out, it works as expected.. so thanks to whomever created the drawing found in the downloads section here.  
I did find the length about 9/16" to long, but that just might be the earlier machine vs. the older machine??

My fabbed kick-out worked as well!  

So all in all a good day in my shop!


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## wa5cab

34-40,

I found a JPG of the drawing somewhere (and don't know who originally did it), cleaned it up as a TIF and then put it in Downloads as a PDF.  But my MFA is still in the crate so I couldn't sanity check the dimensions.  When you say that it was 9/16" too long, do you mean the 3/8" diameter part?  If so, I can edit the drawing and replace it.  

According to Atlas MMB-5, the spindle itself remained an M1-31 through all models (M1 through MHC).  However, the gear guard did change.  There were three, M1-28, MF-28 and MF-28A.  The latter is only used on MFC.  But I haven't yet looked into what changed.

Robert D.


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## VSAncona

I can take some measurements off mine if it would help.


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## wa5cab

Vincent,

Next time that I need to call Clausing, I'll try to get a copy of the Atlas drawing.  But if yours is an original, compare it to the rough drawing in Downloads and tell me what doesn't match.  I'll fix it.

Robert D.


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## 34_40

wa5cab said:


> 34-40,
> When you say that it was 9/16" too long, do you mean the 3/8" diameter part? If so, I can edit the drawing and replace it.
> Robert D.




The distance fom the tip of the threads to the shoulder,  I had to shorten it to be able to draw a collet tight.   V.,  if you could measure up yours.?.?.?  That would be great!


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## VSAncona

I'm pretty sure my draw bar is original. It matches the illustration and description in the Atlas catalogs. But it looks a bit different than the drawing in the downloads file. In addition to the length being different, mine has a bearing. It also has a square end instead of a hex end. The square end is designed to be used with the S7-100 crank handle that is also used with the milling vise. Here are some photos of my draw bar:





This is the bearing. It is a sliding fit on the bar:





The end of the bar has a 3/8" square for tightening:





All I have to measure it with is a steel rule and a vernier caliper, so these aren't precise measurements but they should be close enough. The draw bar is 10-11/16" in overall length. With the bearing removed, the distance from the shoulder to the end of the threads is 6-11/16". The bearing is 1-1/8" long, so the distance from the end of the bearing shoulder to the end of the threads is 5-9/16". Let me know if you need more dimensions.

Vince


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## wa5cab

OK.  I'm going to take the existing drawing down and try to get a copy from Clausing.  

Robert D.


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## 34_40

Been a long time since I've posted anything in this thread so I am happy to report that I did get a second arbor.  Mine came with a 7/8" arbor only.   I waited to long and toolsforcheap no longer carries the 1" but they had a couple of 1 1/4" arbor on special so I grabbed one of those along with a bagfull of spacers.

I also found a guy on c-list selling some cutting tools and went to look..  I did end up picking up some decent used cutters like a 3" long shell mill and some other slitting saws.  For 20 bucks!
Then he shows me a pile of reamers all are mostly under 5/8"  about 25 of them, says he wants 40 bucks for those but I wasn't interested at all..

So as I'm getting ready to leave, he says okay, how about 20 bucks for the reamers?!?!?  I figured for that price, I couldn't go wrong..  so I brought those home also..

So I've been searching for a 1" arbor (for a reasonable price)  but some must think theirs are made from gold!   And last night a friend brings me a 8 foot length of 3" round bar.  It was one of those tools for the forktruck at his workplace and since it wasn't load rated and accepted by osha, they had to cut it up!  He grabbed it from the dumpster and figured I could make something from it!  What a good friend! 

Maybe there is an arbor inside of there??  LOL..


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## 34_40

Hello to all.. went to use my mill last weekend - did the setup and all was well.  Started the machine and engaged the autofeed - it made maybe a half rotation and "POP" broke the u-joint!

I turned the handle to move the table and it was very hard to turn. But during setup it was fine.

I haven't started to investigate, holiday approaching gets in the way..  but any thoughts to the problem?  Things to look for??


----------



## VSAncona

Sorry to hear that. That's a real bummer. I seem to remember seeing a thread on this site or another one of someone making a new universal joint for their Atlas mill.


----------



## 34_40

Yeah. Me also.  Been searching just now.


----------



## 34_40

I think this is the one we are thinking of..

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/atlas-milling-machine-power-feed.26740/#post-235522

Or perhaps this one by LJP,  http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/atlas-hor-vert-mill.22832/


----------



## j_zuilkowski

I picked up an MFC for $330 back in December.  Luckily I had a friend in Ma to pick it up and ship it to me, still waiting on it.  I also picked up a vertical head that runs off of the arbor via a belt for $150


----------



## 34_40

SCOOOOOOOOOORRRREEEEE......

Looks like it is in good shape too!   Where abouts in MA did it come from?  Perhaps it was in my backyard and I never knew!?!?

And a vertical head for 150 too?!?  Some guys have all the luck


----------



## j_zuilkowski

It came from Dartmouth.  The guy even delivered it to my friend in Norton at no additional charge.  I was the 3rd to win this bid.  For some reason, the other 2 backed out.

I've since bought all of the guards (including the vanity guard over the arbor), and each of 7/8, 1, 1-1/4 arbors.

I should have a fairly complete setup now, just need some cutters.


----------



## 34_40

Wow, it was in my backyard! I'm in New Bedford.  There was some cutters in the Rhode Island C-List in the past couple weeks.
I've been able to find some up the cape and did well on the purchase.  I still need a 1" arbor and spacers, I have the other two,  but I was just give some round stock so maybe I'll make my own?
Maybe we can get together some weekend!


----------



## Gunner

There is nothing wrong with using a 1-1/4" arbor on the Atlas mill.  The ones that someone used to run on eBay appeared to be well made.  But just for the record, the factory only supplied 7/8" and 1" ones.  So if you have a bunch of 1-1/4" tooling and have the misfortune to damage the arbor such that it can't be repaired, you may have a difficult time replacing it.  So I would recommend sticking with the other two in your tooling acquisitions unless you find a large assortment quite cheap.


----------



## 34_40

That's where my 1.250 arbor came from, as he was closing his business he started going wholesale, so the arbor was some 60%  of the original price and the spacers was by the bagfull.
He even tossed in some extra spacers just to clear his inventory.  I should've ordered the 1" right then because he was sold out by the time I saved enough pennies.

Also, I have a two piece "bushing" that mounts a 1" id onto the 7/8"s arbor.  Works well for thin tools, won't work on a shell or slab tool.


----------



## 34_40

So back on December 23rd I posted that my mill broke one of the u-joints,  last week I started to investigate and discovered, I had shot myself in the foot!

What I discovered was that I had previously tightened the table crank on the left side,  and once I loosened that nut, the table handle & shaft spun freely!  I haven't gone any further on that front - but I did start turning some stock to make a U-joint.  I'll have to change one measurement from the "home made" print I grabbed from here.  Since the broken joint is right at the drive box,  the shaft o.d. is smaller than the driveshaft itself.

More to come.


----------



## wa5cab

34_40 said:


> That's where my 1.250 arbor came from, as he was closing his business he started going wholesale, so the arbor was some 60%  of the original price and the spacers was by the bagfull.
> He even tossed in some extra spacers just to clear his inventory.  I should've ordered the 1" right then because he was sold out by the time I saved enough pennies.
> 
> Also, I have a two piece "bushing" that mounts a 1" id onto the 7/8"s arbor.  Works well for thin tools, won't work on a shell or slab tool.



Wish I had known he was selling spacers by themselves.  I would have bought some extra 7/8" and 1".

Atlas used to supply a shell mill holder.  Mounted on the spindle like the arbor driver.  I haven't seen one for sale on eBay or I would have bought it.


----------



## 34_40

On his website, he was selling them originally by piece, then he was selling a bagful assortment of different sizes.
I guess I'll copy my 7/8" arbor but with 1" dimension and then figure out some spacers...  or....  create a couple more bushings to adapt  the 1" shell mills to the 7/8" arbor?!?!


----------



## wa5cab

We do have the factory drawing for the MF-27 U-Joint Yoke but it only shows drilling and reaming the pivot pin hole to 0.2500"/0.2505".  And says that it is made from MF-26.  All that we have on what I assume is MF-26 is several annotated photos.  And the OP warns that the measurements might not be dead on.


----------



## wa5cab

Are they all gone from his web-site?  If not, please post the URL.

On the shell mills, the ones that I have seen that are called that are all internally threaded.


----------



## 34_40

Thanks for the info,  I've grabbed every photo and or print I could find.  plus I have whats left of the original.
Can't get to the shop today, digging out from the blizzard.  I actually started roughing one out last weekend, now I just need to get it done!


----------



## 34_40

Are they all gone from his web-site? If not, please post the URL.
On the shell mills, the ones that I have seen that are called that are all internally threaded.

Yes, - they sold out and closed the doors last month.   Around these parts, any really wide cutter would be called a slab mill or a shell mill interchangably.  Like a lot of things terms become generic.  I have also seen shell mills on a morse taper 2 drive arbor,  I believe the Atlas catalog recently posted has them in it..


----------



## wa5cab

OK on no more spacers.

And you're right of course, about things being named differently in different parts of the country.  However, on the shell mills and threads and arbors, we are both right and we're both wrong.  The shell end mills and driver aren't threaded.  The driver has two drive pins and a thin retaining nut.  And the arbors that are threaded aren't for the shell mills but for the angular or dovetail cutters and they aren't 2MT but 1/2" straight shank to fit the Shank-Cutter Adaptor or cutter holder, which is 2MT.


----------



## Mondo

While on the topic of Atlas Mill arbors...   How are the cutters secured to the arbor with regard to the key slot?  Are the spacers broached to match the key?

Spiral_Chips


----------



## VSAncona

The cutters are broached for a key but the spacers are not.


----------



## VSAncona

wa5cab said:


> Atlas used to supply a shell mill holder.  Mounted on the spindle like the arbor driver.  I haven't seen one for sale on eBay or I would have bought it.



I saw one of these on ebay just in the last week or two. If I recall, the auction ended without any bidders.


----------



## wa5cab

Vince,

Do you recall any key words from the title?  I did a search on eBay but all that I turned up were either R8 or cat 40 or larger.


----------



## Mondo

VSAncona said:


> The cutters are broached for a key but the spacers are not.



Then one must maintain a selection of keys in various lengths to match the thickness of the cutter hubs.
How would one secure a slotting cutter in the arbor? a 1/4" square key only a few 32nds to match a thin slotting cutter would shear.  I'm figuring  a pair of spacers that are broached, one on each side of the cutter so a decent length of key can be used.  But those spacers will need to be larger OD than the standard to accommodate the keyway.   Yes?

Spiral_Chips


----------



## 34_40

I'm going to the shop tomorrow to verify this but, I believe some of the spacers are broached for a key.


----------



## 34_40

VSAncona said:


> I saw one of these on ebay just in the last week or two. If I recall, the auction ended without any bidders.


 
Yes, I saw it also.


----------



## VSAncona

wa5cab said:


> Vince,
> 
> Do you recall any key words from the title?  I did a search on eBay but all that I turned up were either R8 or cat 40 or larger.



Try this http://www.ebay.com/itm/151946868856?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I would have bid on it myself, but I already own one. It's very handy.


----------



## VSAncona

Spiral_Chips said:


> Then one must maintain a selection of keys in various lengths to match the thickness of the cutter hubs.
> How would one secure a slotting cutter in the arbor? a 1/4" square key only a few 32nds to match a thin slotting cutter would shear.  I'm figuring  a pair of spacers that are broached, one on each side of the cutter so a decent length of key can be used.  But those spacers will need to be larger OD than the standard to accommodate the keyway.   Yes?
> 
> Spiral_Chips



The thin slotting or cutting blades don't need a key; they are simply sandwiched between the spacers and held by friction. For the wider cutters, yes, I have a selection of different length keys that I use. One 12" length of key stock will make more than you need.


----------



## wa5cab

VSAncona said:


> Try this http://www.ebay.com/itm/151946868856?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
> I would have bid on it myself, but I already own one. It's very handy.



Vince,

Thanks.


----------



## Mondo

Thank you, Vince!

Next item I am struggling with:  Kickout M1-64.  There are two currently available on Ebay, both are priced outside my budget.  There is a file in the downloads showing how one machinist made one from a brass bolt.  http://www.hobby-machinist.com/resources/make-a-kickout-jpg.2255/download?version=2255
The drawings and dimensions are not clear in the pdf.   Does anyone know from what magazine/issue this was copied?  I'd like to see if I find a copy at a local library.


----------



## VSAncona

I think Rudy Kouhoupt wrote an article on making one in an old issue of The Home Shop Machinist. I don't recall the exact issue though.


----------



## wa5cab

You could also call Clausing and get the factory drawing as the author said that he did.


----------



## Mondo

On my to-do list.


----------



## Rob

Spiral_Chips said:


> On my to-do list.



If anything like mine it is a long list


----------



## Mondo

Last time I checked there were 9,873 items on it.


----------



## 34_40

So I had to go back 3 pages to figure out where I / We  had left off.. 

And as I had figured, my working life gets in the way of my "non-working" life! 

Work has been a bear for 3 weeks now, I've gone from a regular 40 hours to being on-site permanently!    BUT! we're hopeful the crush is soon to be over and back to "normalcy" by this weekend!      So then I can get back to my projects - HOORAY!


----------



## 34_40

I did make some time and repaired the broken u-joint.  I simply copied the broken half of the joint located at the table drive.
A fun and interesting little project, not overly complicated for sure but a bunch of fun none the less!  Kinda like, I wonder if - well this might work..  and then if I do this..  and then this...   waa laa..
A simple little part sure brought a bunch of fun to me today! LOL..

An interesting part is the cross piece the joint pivots on...  one pin is 1/8" and it passes right through the other pin which is 1/4" !   Took me a bit to figure that one out!


----------



## NITROTRIP

30_40,
I have a late MFC that I have yet to use. Have something interesting on mine that your broken u-joint post
spurred me to look at. Mine has one half of the upper u-joint made out of aluminum. In the parts box are
3 more unused and one broken one, and I think the original broken steel one, plus the gear under the table
that is missing teeth. I think the original owner bound something up and ripped up the gear and u-joint.
When he replaced the gear I think he made the aluminum u-joints to act as a fuse before busting more
expensive parts. Something to think about and keep a eye on.
 He passed away about 25yrs ago and I got this mill and his Wade 8A lathe from his son. He was a very
good Machinist and I am happy to keep his tools together.
For a interesting read look up Wade 8A lathe history, awesome machine.

Take Care,
Rick


----------



## 34_40

Interesting thought..  I think the roll pins could be replaced with an aluminum pin to act as a shearpin, and be replaced easier than a new u-joint..  same concept.
The u-joints themselves are probably "tougher" than the zamack gears in the gearbox they're connected to.

Thanks for the post Rick,  great ideas!


----------



## NITROTRIP

34_40,
The gear that was busted in mine was magnetic so it was not zamack. I don't remember any gears in my mill
that were that material when I took it apart and cleaned everything, they were all iron. That was 9yrs ago so
I might not remember correctly. Interisting that they would put that material there.
Pick up something new every day.
Rick


----------



## 34_40

Maybe someone more knowledgable will chime in but I'm pretty sure someone here said they were zamack.
Or maybe my memory is going the way of my wallet...  getting slimmer each day!

Making a shearpin in itself shouldn't be hard to do, but.  getting it to shear at a known value (each time) will be a trick.  On my lathe, the drive is set to slip the belt should it "crash".
It may be easier to setup the mill to do the same?  It's a thought.


----------



## Rob

The gears in the feed setup section are zamack.  The gears that are under the table are steel.


----------



## NITROTRIP

Rob,
My broken gear that was under the table was steel. I guess the rest of the gears in the mill
must be a mix. I need to pull it out of storage and check it out. I need to check on it anyway
to make shure I I have it pickeled well enough and not picking up any rust.
Thanks for your reply,
Rick


----------



## wa5cab

The change gears in the mill, like some other parts at least with the M* and M*A are from the Atlas 618 and are Zamak.  In applications where the teeth are thinner, they used steel.  The same thing is true in the five QCGB models.


----------



## 34_40

Thanks for clearing that up Guys!


----------



## Wheels17

My Craftsman version is in pieces in the basement.  I got out my magnet, and found that the Driver Gear MF-33A, the gear on the spindle , the tumbler gears MF-101-24A and MF-101-20A, the dual gear MF101-16L and MF-101-16, were magnetic.  All the rest were non-magnetic (not including the gears on the table, I don't have that open).  It seems that all the magnetic gears have bronze bushings, while the Zamak ones do not. 

On a related tangent,  my parts list shows that there is an internal toothed "shakeproof" washer between the M6-93 washer and the gear and bushing on gear M6-101-40, which is the gear after the stacked gears after the tumbler
.  My mill came with a hardware store washer in the place of the M6-93 washer.  I made a new M6-93, and when I torqued the screw down, the gear had enough (perhaps excess) clearance that it ran freely.  Does anyone know why only this gear would be specified with a toothed washer for which I see no purpose?


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## 34_40

Now I'll have to go find my copy of the parts breakdown...  "shake proof" huh???


----------



## Wheels17

Save you the trouble...   It's the only place I see that.


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## 34_40

ROFL...  Thanks for saving me a trip out to the shop!  LOL..

I don't see why you couldn't substitute a drop of threadlocker on the 1/4 - 20 bolt!


----------



## Mondo

I have had problems using thread locker fluid on small diameter threads...  The screws will sometimes break when disassembling later, especially in places where I can't safely apply heat to soften the thread locker!  Take it easy on that stuff!

Spiral_Chips


----------



## Wheels17

@45_40, that's exactly what I did.  But I was worried that it was such an odd setup, there was something important I was missing.

@Spiral_Chips, thanks for the warning.  I only use the blue stuff, and haven't really used it on stuff under 1/4" . I hadn't thought about it before, but I can see where as you get smaller, the ratio between the surface area of adhesion goes down much more slowly than the area of the screw, leading to problems.  So there's a product for Loctite!! Small screw threadlock..


----------



## 34_40

Like many things in life, guys think if a little is good, a lots better right??

Anyway, glad to hear it's back together,  soon to be making chips??


----------



## rrjohnso2000

Super glue works well as a thread locker. Acetone will soften if needed.


----------



## Wheels17

@34_40 
Probably not too soon.  I have to put the Change-o-matic  back together, mount that on the machine.  Fix the shim pack on one side of the knee.  Clean up and remount the table.  Check and clean the table drive.  Finish an arbor support drawing. Make an arbor support.  Make arbors.  
But that's part of the fun of old machines.

It sure was nice turning it on and hearing it whirr, though.


----------



## 34_40

Okay,Okay//  so theres a few "hurdles" before the chips fly! 
I've been wanting to copy some of the ideas for a tramming tool but time is always at a premium!

But we'll get there.  The sun is up and the temps as well.  Gonna get outside and start some yard work I'm thinking.


----------



## 34_40

ANy of you see (or perhaps purchase?) the sweet oil /coolant pump on that popular auction site?

SOmeone disassembled a very well optioned mill.  Really a shame in some ways..


----------



## JPMacG

Yes, I  saw it, and I agree.  People are parting out their mills for the money.  Seems a shame.

I thought of bidding on the rotary table.  It would have been fun to have the original Atlas table that went with the mill.   But for about the same $$ I could have a new import that is more useful.

When the seller unloads all the stuff that people want he will be left with the large castings.   I suppose they will go to the recycler.


----------



## 34_40

I need the guards over the belts but they want 3 or 4 times what I'd feel comfortable paying!

But it was nice to actually see what that coolant system looked like.


----------



## wa5cab

If this was several months ago, I bid on the pump but got outbid.  If it was recently, then the @#$%^ search I have running on eBay let me down.


----------



## Mondo

Is this the pump system you are discussing?
Ebay Item # 141930084436
Sold on March 19, $499.99.  WoW!

My search missed it too.   (Atlas Mill Milling Machine)  I should drop the word "machine".
The seller, "tool-in-the-box" seems to come up with lots of good parts.  Add him to your follow list.

No don't. I'm sorry I said that.  I want first dibs on everything he sells.

Spiral_Chips


----------



## JPMacG

That is it, March 19 for $499.99.


----------



## Restorer

Good deals on Ebay are few and far between.  I need a set of belt guards and original pulleys; but these parts sell at a level exceeding the price paid for the machine with an original vise and  100 cutters.
If I were to sink that much money into the mill I would not recover it when I sell in the future.

Restorer


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## wa5cab

Well, if you buy much tooling, you probably won't recover that cost, either.

I now see what my search missed this one.  Which was in much better condition than the one from last year.

I also now see what the difference is between an M1-1 and an M1-1A.  Fortunately, I have one of each.


----------



## Mondo

That's the nature of rebuilding machines from parts. No one makes a profit building a Corvette from junkyard parts.  It isn't going to happen with machine tools either.  The value of the sum of the parts far exceeds the value of the entire automobile, machine, company, whatever.   

But for those of us who are hobbyists this is still cheaper than buying a new machine of similar capability.  A modern South Bend Heavy 10 (which is nothing at all like an SB heavy 10 built in Indiana years ago)  is listed in the 2016 Grizzly catalog at $7500 plus $150 flat rate shipping.   A 40-year old Craftsman Commercial 12x36 with a pile of accessories and tooling can be had for less than half that.  And Grizzly's H-Mill isn't half the machine these Atlas mills are.

The Ebay seller's prices are high and continue to escalate because there is always someone willing to pay more.  A few short weeks ago I was looking at a MFC Mill overarm bar support, M1-61 and I balked at paying $199.99.  It sold on Feb 20 for the asking price.  Two days ago another sold for a Buy Now price of $275, a whopping 37% higher in only a month!  It is just a matter of market dynamics.  Many of these parts are rare and there are more prospective buyers than there are parts, and those buyers are willing to pay the asking price.  

I have noticed many Atlas/Craftsman lathe parts that were sold at auction on Ebay a couple of years ago now command higher Buy Now prices and they sell! Sellers are not amenable to the wide fluctuations of auction prices so they are leaning more towards Buy Now prices and all they need do is just sit and wait.  

Spiral_Chips


----------



## Rob

And in the case of items that are auction and not buy it now we are to blame for the high price. It seems that several items that start with a low price end up with a major biding war.  Not the fault of the seller in this case but of us the bidders. Like Spiral_Chips said, supply and demand.


----------



## 34_40

It just goes to prove that there are many many machines still out there working and/or being restored.
I don't have the cash for a cover at the price of 199.  So I'll go without..


----------



## Mondo

Regarding the M1-61 bar that provided additional support to the front of the overarm arbor support....

I passed an Ebay offering at 199.99 as too pricey, then I gagged when I saw another go a month later for $275.  Seems these are rare birds.  I am looking at prices for raw materials.  Anything other than CRS bar stock is rather pricey. Local vendors of CRS Bar stock require I buy a minimum 20ft length.  Cast iron flat, closest I found at speedymetals that will finish to final drawing size (15/16 x 2-1/4 x 15-1/2)  is 2 x 2-1/2.  An 18" length is $51.77.  (I may do that.)  At least it will be factory-type material.   Tool steels of any alloy from any source are at least twice that or more and may prove difficult or costly in tooling to machine.

What do you folks think about using aluminum flat bar? 18" of 1 x 2-15 (6061-T5611) at Speedymetals is $21.31 plus shipping.   Too soft and stretchey?

Spiral_Chips


----------



## Green Frog

Spiral-Chips, 

I may be preaching to the choir here, but my favorite strategy for finding pieces like the one you mention is to go to the local metal supplier and ask about drops... you never know until you ask, do you?  I also had developed a loose relationship with a local scrap yard, unfortunately they have moved and I'll have to start over.   Just because a piece of metal has been used before doesn't mean you can't repurpose it.  I tend to be very frugal on such things and buy new metal (especially in expensive, large pieces) strictly as a last resort.  After all, after you mill and drill and grind away all evidence of its previous usage, who cares? 

Regards,
Froggie

PS  I just started in again with rehabbing my MFC and that's one of the things I need... gotta get the overarm fixed up first, though.


----------



## Mondo

Around here drops seem to get squirreled off pretty fast.
One possibility is I have two large pieces from a broken square storm drain frame made from cast iron.  I may be able to saw a suitable piece from that.

Spiral_Chips


----------



## Green Frog

While we're on the subject of the overarm, my Atlas MFC came to me with two empty holes where the arbor support arm locks are supposed to be... I have the arm itself, but no way to secure it from sliding and/or turning.  I'm wondering what those parts (inside) even look like, and whether I can fabricate them myself or whether they are too complex??  The square head bolt and some sort of substitute for the (visible) locking levers should be pretty straightforward, but what about the sleeve parts that actually lock the arm?

Froggie


----------



## CluelessNewB

Green Frog said:


> While we're on the subject of the overarm, my Atlas MFC came to me with two empty holes where the arbor support arm locks are supposed to be... I have the arm itself, but no way to secure it from sliding and/or turning. I'm wondering what those parts (inside) even look like, and whether I can fabricate them myself or whether they are too complex?? The square head bolt and some sort of substitute for the (visible) locking levers should be pretty straightforward, but what about the sleeve parts that actually lock the arm?




Here is the parts diagram. I think most parts would be easy to make except maybe M6-44 which has a recessed square hole in the bottom.  Note that M6-44 and M6-45 were originally cast parts probably Zamac.   If you need photos of the actual parts I can get them for you.


----------



## Mondo

Those are not unlike the TS ram lock on the Atlas lathes.  Not the exact same parts to be sure, but similar, made from ZAMAK.  I would expect you could get satisfactory performance making them from 6061 aluminum.  Just don't tighten any more than necessary to stop the support from moving.

The square recess in the bottom piece, M6-44, can probably be accomplished by boring a flat bottom depression with a diameter to match the width across the flats of the bolt head then using a very small diameter end mill to square it up.

Spiral_Chips


----------



## Green Frog

Thanks, Rich.  That picture in my copy of the parts list is smaller (of course) and a little blurry.  I'm still trying to figure out why I need three each of the M6-44 and M6-45  bushings.  I see two '-45s and one '-44 being used on this one assembly, times two would be a total of six pieces according to the picture.  If I do have to make a set of them, I'm thinking that some aluminum rod in my chowder box would be a good substitute for ZAMAC, don't you think?  Also, I'm thinking the MI-26 spacer looks like it ought to be made of rubber, right?  I'm thinking I can make a pretty usable lock handle without being too concerned about slavishly copying the original.  The only other major external part I'll need to replace is the eccentric lever whose lever and knob are broken off on mine... there's a long machine screw in it to pull the locking pin, so at least I can use it as-is while I fix more pressing needs.


----------



## Green Frog

OK, I guess I'm going to need detail drawings or pictures... the more I look and scratch my head, the more confused I get!   Is there a drawing I can access online, or where do I need to go to get one?  From what S_C said, I'm guessing there is a notch across the bottom of M6-44 that engages the square head of the 1/4 x 20 machine bolt while M6-45 is the same but without the notch, right?  Why are they showing the upper spacer as being a M6-44 when it wouldn't need the relief in the side to bear against the overarm bar?  Again, am I right that the MI-26 spacer should be made out of rubber so it crushes when the assembly tightens against the bar?  I'm still trying to figure out why the heck somebody would take both of these out entirely in the first place!   Oh well, it's all part of the adventure, and since I'm retired now I have lots of time to enjoy working on it, right? 

Froggie


----------



## Wheels17

I'm working on rehabbing mine (see earlier in this note), so I took the locks out and took a picture.  They are Zamak.  Notice that mine were not the same.  I think someone put the washers in after the lock started to wear.  I also found out that one of the lock handles is stripped.  Helicoil time I guess.

Mine are kind of beat up.  The measurements that I get vary among the parts.

1  Dia=.615-.621, L=.709,  Hole is a snug fit on an F drill(.257), the un-arced part is 1/2", the un-machined part of the nose at the narrowest part is 3/8", the square hole is 25/64.

2. Rubber, so dimensions are difficult but it's about 5/8" dia, 1/2" long, and the hole fits a J drill(.277)  It appears to be cut off tangent to the center hole.

3. All similar to #1 but no square hole, length is .711

4. Dia=.6235, L=.6565, hold fits an I drill(.272).

When I put 1 and 3 on the bolt and make the arcs rest easily on the overarm, there is 5/8" between the ends of the parts.

There are some problems with these dimensions.  When I build a cad model, the arc that defines the two curved surfaces on 1 and 3 drops too deeply into the slot in between.  

In the drawing, the blue lines are the centerline and outside of the parts, the yellow lines are the hole through the center of 1 and 3, and the green and magenta lines are used to construct the arcs.  They suggest that the overarm will intersect the clamp bolt.
The rubber piece is 1/2" long, so I'm going to try a construction with that spacing.  That will move the overarm away from the clamp bolt.


----------



## CluelessNewB

Green Frog said:


> Why are they showing the upper spacer as being a M6-44 when it wouldn't need the relief in the side to bear against the overarm bar?



On my current model MFC the upper spacer (#4 in Wheels17 pictures) is a straight spacer with no relief but on the older model MF that I once had the spacer was just another M6-45 with the relief (which served no purpose that I can tell, probably just one less part number to deal with).


----------



## Wheels17

I redid the drawing with a half inch gap.  It looks better, as there is now a gap of .2892 between the two arcs, so there's about .015 clearance from the overarm.  Please excuse the ridiculous numbers of decimals.  I need to carry them to make the fractions come out right.   I need to make one of these once I get my arbor support made.  I have not shown the square recess.

To make it, I think what I will do is make a part that is as long as the two of them, plus the half inch space in the middle.  I have a 1.5" diameter horizontal milling cutter, so I'll put that on an arbor in my vertical mill and pass down both sides to the right depth.  Then I'll cut 1/2" out of the middle.

Now what to use to make it?  Wikipedia says Zamak 3 is "the defacto standard" for Zamak alloys, and has a yield strength of 30,200 psi.  The other Zamaks range from 29,000 to  52,000 psi.  These seem pretty soft, so I'd guess it's Zamak 3.  Again, Wikipedia says "T6 temper 6061 has ... yield strength of at least 35,000 psi (241 MPa). More typical values are ...  40,000 psi (275 MPa), respectively.  Sounds like  it's about right.


----------



## Wheels17

I went back down and looked at my parts labeled #4.  They are steel, so perhaps not original.  They are a bit larger in diameter, and the clearance drill is about an I drill(.272).


----------



## Mondo

It is difficult to be certain, but looking at the photograph items 3 and 4 do not appear to have the same surface color and appear to be made from different materials.   

I think there are errors in the parts drawing.   See my copy as attached.  The two parts I circled do not look to be identical, and logic would tell me they would not be, though the drawing indicates they have the same part number.  The upper part does not need to have the radius slice that the one immediately below it has where it mates with the surface of the arm.   The upper part as I have circled probably has a different part number, three are not required because it is not used in the casting that supports the outer end of the arbor as are the M6-44 and M6-45.


----------



## Mondo

CluelessNewB said:


> On my current model MFC the upper spacer (#4 in Wheels17 pictures) is a straight spacer with no relief but on the older model MF that I once had the spacer was just another M6-45 with the relief (which served no purpose that I can tell, probably just one less part number to deal with).



Makes sense to me.  But if it is really an M6-45 then a total of four are required, two for each of the upper lock assemblies, but the M1-60 end casting uses only one.

Spiral_Chips


----------



## Mondo

LOL!!  I prove my own presumptive errors again!  

Those two parts, M6-44 and M6-45 are the same part number used on most of the 10" and 12" lathes.  See this clip from a parts drawing for Craftsman 101.07403/101.27430/101-27449 12" lathes:




I checked several other models also: Same part numbers, even the Craftsman Commercial 12" under-cabinet drive lathes.  Only the Atlas 10E was different.  Both parts are still available from Searspartsdirect.com, so they are probably available from Clausing.  Or could be found on E-bay as Atlas/Craftsman 10-12 lathe parts.  That the part number begins with "M6" I suspect they are also used on the Atlas built 6" lathes, but I do not have those parts lists in my library so I cannot confirm.

Spiral_Chips


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## Green Frog

Wheels17 it looks like you and I are thinking along the same lines... however, since I'm still trying to reassemble my machinery here,  I plan to "cheat" a little and make these parts on a lathe and one of the big vertical mills at the college.  I'm wondering whether I should "notch" it on both sides, or just one, like the original appears(?) to be.  Also, I am still struggling with the concept of the recess on the lower one... does the square head of the bolt fit all the way into it, or does it straddle the head of the bolt, or what?    It looks like the head would be totally enclosed, right??  

I'm thinking I can use a mild steel bolt, make the center spacer of medium hard rubber, and use aluminum for everything else including the knob/lever assembly on top.  I'll probably be a little creative on the design of the knob rather than trying to duplicate the lines of the casting.  Just how strongly does one have to clamp down on this knob? 

Of course I'll also be thinking eventually about the knob assembly for the eccentric as well, but that's a story for another day. 

Froggie


----------



## Green Frog

Spiral_Chips, my Google-Fu isn't working... I can't find the page you clipped out to show the picture in your last post.  Which sub-assembly did that come from and what do they call it on the lathe?

Never mind... I looked it up by the Mill model #.  The two jamming pieces are there (your #1 and #3, but everything else is NLA. 

Wow, $97.96 for the four lock sleeves... I'm getting a lot more serious about making them myself now!


----------



## CluelessNewB

Wheels17 said:


> I went back down and looked at my parts labeled #4. They are steel, so perhaps not original.



Mine are steel also. 



Spiral_Chips said:


> Makes sense to me. But if it is really an M6-45 then a total of four are required, two for each of the upper lock assemblies, but the M1-60 end casting uses only one.
> 
> Spiral_Chips



I would count a total of 5 M6-45 and 3 M6-44 including the set used for the M1-60 Arbor Support assuming 2 M6-45's are just used as spacers (Wheels17 #4) either way the total is wrong, but this wouldn't be the first error found on Atlas diagrams and probably not the last.    



Green Frog said:


> does the square head of the bolt fit all the way into it, or does it straddle the head of the bolt, or what? It looks like the head would be totally enclosed, right??



The square recess allows the head of the bolt to fit flush.  The head of the square bolt does not extend beyond the bottom of M6-44.  There isn't a whole lot of material on the edge of M6-44 where the pointy  ends of the square head are.


----------



## Rob

As Spiral_Chips stated they are the same as used on my Craftsman 12" Lathe in the Tailstock.  The top M6-45 is just a spacer.  In my mill both of the M6-45 are the same. I would think that if you made a replacement you could just make it double length.  I would also make it out of Aluminum and not steel.  When clamping steel would have a tendency to make a indent in the overhead support.  I have seen a post somewhere that on the M6-44 replacement someone just used a endmill across the end of the new piece.  It only enclosed 2 sides of the bolt head.  

I haven't used my mill much with the overhead support but when I did I didn't have to clamp the end very hard.  Also on my lathe it is the same for the tailstock ram when clamping it.


----------



## 34_40

Wheels17 said:


> Now what to use to make it?  Wikipedia says Zamak 3 is "the defacto standard" for Zamak alloys, and has a yield strength of 30,200 psi.  The other Zamaks range from 29,000 to  52,000 psi.  These seem pretty soft, so I'd guess it's Zamak 3.  Again, Wikipedia says "T6 temper 6061 has ... yield strength of at least 35,000 psi (241 MPa). More typical values are ...  40,000 psi (275 MPa), respectively.  Sounds like  it's about right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 125642


 
I was with you with the drawing and the measures.  But then the "T6" and PSI ratings ..  you jumped way over my head!!!   Help?


----------



## Steve Shannon

34_40 said:


> I was with you with the drawing and the measures.  But then the "T6" and PSI ratings ..  you jumped way over my head!!!   Help?


T6 is a common heat treatment applied to 6061 aluminum alloy. You are probably familiar with seeing it written as 6061-T6.
The psi ratings are just a material property which describes the stress a material may withstand before failing. There are different types of stresses; compression, tension, shear, and hoop are common.
He's trying to make sure that whatever material he chooses is as strong as the material he's replacing.


----------



## 34_40

Thank You Steve S.! 
I wasn't familiar with the expression 6061-T6,  but I am now... LOL..

All part of the learning curve.. and I'm still pretty low on it. LOL..


----------



## wa5cab

As several have mentioned, M6-44 and M6-45 are the same parts and part numbers as used on the 10" and 12" tailstock ram lock.  So is M1-47.  

Background on Atlas part numbers.  The numbers or letters and numbers to the left of the hyphen more or less ID the first machine that the part was used in.  M6 means the 6" Atlas 618.  M1 means all models of the Atlas mill.  As the 10" Atlas and 12" craftsman lathes (earliest ones) predate either the 618 or the mill, the part must have been redesigned for use on those machines and then later started being used on the larger lathes.  But in any case, the differences between the lock assemblies on all of the various machines are bolt length, the rubber spacer used only on the mill and the second M6-45 used as an upper spacer only on the mill.

There is an error in the Quantiy Used of the M6-45.  It should read "5" instead of "3".  You can still buy at least the M6-44 and M6-45 new from Clausing.  And probably the M1-47.  Plus they all show up fairly frequently on eBay.  And some of the on-line sellers sometimes have them.  Check mymachineshop.com for one.  If anyone comes across an intact M1-26, it wouldn't hurt to know the relaxed length.


----------



## wa5cab

6061 is a common wrought aluminum alloy.  T6 is the Temper.  It is stronger than 2024 (another common one) and not particularly maleable.  It is also somewhat "gummy" to drill or tap.  

After a lot of digging, I came to the conclusion that the Zamak alloy used by Atlas was Zamak 5.  No one at Clausing seems to know.  And the only Atlas drawing of a cast part that we have that I know of is a part made from another part (one of the mill table drive u-joints) and its material simply shows the other part number.


----------



## Wheels17

Mine are in good condition and look factory made.  They are 1/2" long,   measuring the diameter is hard with the side cut out.  I put various letter drill shanks through the center hole, and a J, .277" seemed the best.  The cut does leave a gap, so it must be a little into the bore.  I'll see if I can get better measurements.


----------



## Green Frog

wa5cab said:


> As several have mentioned, M6-44 and M6-45 are the same parts and part numbers as used on the 10" and 12" tailstock ram lock.  So is M1-47.
> 
> Background on Atlas part numbers.  The numbers or letters and numbers to the left of the hyphen more or less ID the first machine that the part was used in.  M6 means the 6" Atlas 618.  M1 means all models of the Atlas mill.  As the 10" Atlas and 12" craftsman lathes (earliest ones) predate either the 618 or the mill, the part must have been redesigned for use on those machines and then later started being used on the larger lathes.  But in any case, the differences between the lock assemblies on all of the various machines are bolt length, the rubber spacer used only on the mill and the second M6-45 used as an upper spacer only on the mill.
> 
> There is an error in the Quantiy Used of the M6-45.  It should read "5" instead of "3".  You can still buy at least the M6-44 and M6-45 new from Clausing.  And probably the M1-47.  Plus they all show up fairly frequently on eBay.  And some of the on-line sellers sometimes have them.  Check mymachineshop.com for one.  If anyone comes across an intact M1-26, it wouldn't hurt to know the relaxed length.



OK, I'll bite.  What is the 5th one used for?  I see 1 on each unit, or 2 on each for a total of 4, but for the life of me I can't figure out where the odd 3rd or 5th one would go(???)  Are you pretty sure that Clausing still has the MI-47 available?  That's the one item I'd really like to buy since it would be way too hard to make a copy that was anything like the original.

Froggie


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## wa5cab

The fifth M6-45 and third M6-44 is used in M1-60.  So only applies to M1C, MFC and MHC.

I haven't checked recently but sometime last year someone on Yahoo was complaining about how much Clausing wanted for one.  Clearly too much time spent looking at 1940's vintage price sheets and too little time paying for new OEM parts for anything in the 21st Century.


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## Green Frog

That may have been me you saw "complaining"... to pay nearly $100 for the four little pressure bushings you need to make the two locks work seems a wee might excessive to my frugal eye... especially if I can make as good or better ones out of aluminum instead of ZAMAK.  While I understand the concept of inflation, I'm also aware that a collectors' market is emerging and I am interested in this machine for its utility, not its collectibility.  I know it's already worth more than I have paid into it so far, but it would cost me MUCH more to replace it with a newer machine (which would probably not be as rigid and well built as the Atlas.)  So I guess I'll just keep bargain hunting and substituting where available or making my own where practical... that's what machinists do, isn't it?  I'm just thankful that this forum can serve as such a great resource and clearinghouse for the information I need to intelligently do what I am trying to do. 

Regards,
Froggie


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## Wheels17

I have the material on order. I intend to make the locks per the drawing I posted and I'll let you know how it goes.


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## wa5cab

Froggie,

Nothing wrong with looking for bargains.  But I run into the same thing in the vintage military radio area, where I am both a collector and a dealer.  Any time someone starts off with something like "But I only paid such and such for the whatsit", I know to pull up my trousers legs or put on my waders.  I've never been able to figure out why anyone would think that what they paid for one item had anything to do with what something else might cost.  Especially when as is usually the case the something else was much harder to find than what they already had.


----------



## Restorer

Gentlemen,

Atlas used Zamak for material because it is stronger than zinc die cast parts.  Zamak is also hard mold capable which creates a finished part in as little as two operations.  They are molding and trimming.  That was attractive to the manufacturer to reduce overall cost.  Unless a restoration is to create a museum piece their is no need to copy exact.  For the majority of readers, the goal is to have a functional home shop machine.   To make a functional part with minimal effort select a piece of stock longer than the total of the short bits plus the gap.  Suitable materials are, Aluminum, Brass and Bronze.  These are ductile enough not to damage the surface of the overarm even if over tightened.

Face both ends and drill through for the clamp bolt.   Based upon the excellent drawing supplied by Wheels17, the arc center should be 1.25 from the bottom end.   Set a fly cutter to a .75 radius.   Touch down on the top of the material and zero the depth dial.  Proceed to machine the arc to a total depth of .166.  Then cut out 0.5 inch through the center of the arc.  Deburr, assemble and use.

I have been making parts for various machines since I was 16 years old, and that was almost 50 years ago.   In those days I didn't have the money to buy parts after buying the machine.  So I learned to make what I need.   I acquired the attitude, "Failure is not an acceptable option".  Sometimes the first try was not what I wanted.  No problem, do it over correctly.

The primary reason I have continued to acquired old machinery (defined as 1870's to 1930's), is they are reparable.  If for example you acquire a 1980's CNC and a control board fails, those parts are not available at any price.  Then if you have the skill to isolate the defective component on the board, they are long obsolete and not available.  Then the only option is to retrofit the entire system with new controls and servos, an extremely expensive option, or scrap the machine.  We have home shops to make projects.  Therefore, making replacement parts for equipment should be second nature.  Enough on the soap box.

A problem that occurred with my Atlas Horizontal, was the table nut wore out.  I made a replacement, using Bronze.  In a couple of years excess back lash was observed.  Upon disassembly, crumbs of bronze were observed in the key way of the table feed screw.   Upon close examination, the feed screw had not been properly deburred at the factory back in 1942.   I took a wire wheel to the burrs and made an additional nut, all has been functioning well for the last 10 years.  The suggestion is to check your  feed screw and remove burrs as necessary.

Enjoy your machines and keep the chips flying!

Restorer


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## Green Frog

Restorer, I like "the cut of your jib."  That sounds like the exact attitude I have, now if I can only develop the skills to back it up!  At 66, I don't have time to put in the years you have, so I'll have to cheat a little from time to time and get help and advice from folks like you to keep me headed in the right direction.  Thanks to all who have responded with good solid DIY advice and counsel.

Froggie


----------



## Wheels17

Well, I finally finished my arbor lock adventure(mostly).  I published a  drawing earlier in this thread, but I believe that there are errors in that drawing.  I took more careful measurements of the four used locks I have and made my best estimate of the proper dimensions.  There is one drawing used to figure out the geometry of the lock.  I knew the width of the face of the lock, and the distance of the edge of the radiused cut to the end of the lock.  Adding the bar diameter, and using Draftsight, I developed a drawing that shows the dimensions of two locks.  I also prepared a machining drawing with the offsets calculated for using a .032 slitting saw for cutting the locks apart from the machined blank.

I cut the blank to length, faced, and drilled on the lathe.  I then put the blank in a 5C spindex and used my boring head to cut the curved areas in the stock.  The blank was then set upright in a v-block in the mill vise to separate the parts from  the stock.  The plain cylinder was faced to length on the lathe.

To convert the blank lock to the one that takes the square headed bolt, I put one of  the locks back into the v-block and milled the square hole with a 1/8  end mill.  Since it was aluminum (6061-T6), a sharp wood chisel cleaned out the corners so the bolt would fit.

Finding the square headed bolts turned out to be harder than I thought.   They will have to be ordered, and shipping really drives the price for a few bolts sky high.  I'm still looking locally.


----------



## Wheels17

I just saw the note that these were Zamak 5.
Numbers from Wikipedia

Tensile strength:
Zamak 5  48,000 psi (39,000 psi aged)
6061-T6   typical values are 45,000 psi

I think 60 years counts as aged......

Yield Strength
Zamak 5  43,000 psi
6061-T6 typical values are 40,000 psi

A bit less, but close.


----------



## Wheels17

I've attached a study I did to make square head bolts out of hex bolts.  .005 sq in lost  out of .1914 square inches, or  about 2.6% area lost compared to the area of the square head.  If you assume that the bolt diameter is .250 (bad assumption),  the bearing area is .1423 square inches, or a loss of 3.5%. 

It's quick work.  Set a 1/4" bolt with a 7/16 head in the vise and use a 30 degree angle block to get the flat horizontal.  Zero the quill to the flat.  Use a 15 degree angle block to set a side flat to 15 degrees.  Lower the quill by about .031" and mill the head.  Now use a 90 degree block to set the face just machined to square.  Mill, repeat two more times.  They fit pretty well.













Modified Bolt



__ Wheels17
__ Apr 7, 2016


















Bolt & Lock



__ Wheels17
__ Apr 7, 2016



						Modified hex bolt for Atlas overarm clamp in shop-made clamp.


----------



## Mondo

Nice work!

I can buy square-head bolts at my local Sears Hardware and Appliance store. To fit the lock I may need to file/grind/mill a little off each side of the square.

Spiral_Chips


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## Wheels17

I never thought of looking there.  I went to all my "old fashioned" hardware stores and struck out.  Online seemed to be limited to quantities of 50 or 100. 
I could find larger sizes a number of places.    The blank looks at the big box stores were funny.


----------



## Mondo

Not a general Sears retail store, this is an appliance, tools, and hardware only.  No clothing, jewelry, bedding, etc.
Tractor Supply may have them. 

But you are right about the remnants of the former "old fashion" hardware stores and modern home improvement centers.  They all are increasingly moving towards stocking the central 1/3 of the middle of the road products that 2/3 of the middle of the road customers are looking for.  This is how modern marketing maximizes profits.  I see it as part of the continued "dumbing down of America" phenomena.   Just my own jaded and cynical opinion.

Spiral_Chips


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## Green Frog

Spiral_Chips said:


> Not a general Sears retail store, this is an appliance, tools, and hardware only.  No clothing, jewelry, bedding, etc.
> Tractor Supply may have them.
> 
> But you are right about the remnants of the former "old fashion" hardware stores and modern home improvement centers.  They all are increasingly moving towards stocking the central 1/3 of the middle of the road products that 2/3 of the middle of the road customers are looking for.  This is how modern marketing maximizes profits.  I see it as part of the continued "dumbing down of America" phenomena.   Just my own jaded and cynical opinion.
> 
> Spiral_Chips



I know how you feel, S_C!  Our local Sears "store" is occupying what was formerly a small grocery store building and it's not very full at that... mostly they sell garden implements and major appliances with a modest selection of hand and power tools.  I think they do sell a few mattresses, etc, but honestly I don't go in there very often.  It would be nice if they still had the line of machinery they carried back in the '50s, even if only for mail order.  They pioneered selling stuff online before there was an online!  Mail order was the first internet sales platform before the internet existed.

There is a Tractor Supply about 15 miles from here, so I'll check there the next time I find reason to venture over there, but I think I'll probably do as Wheels17 did an make a square head out of a hex head... I'm thinking if I go to the school shop I could use a 5-C collet in a square block and line things up just right, then mill it off that way.  Man, I wish there were a readily available set of collet blocks (at least square and hex) for 4-C collets since I expended an inordinate amount of time and effort (not to mention money) assembling that set for my Lempco/Sheldon lathe.  

Oh well, I've got to get the basic operation of the mill sorted out first, then I can hopefully do some of these neat things.

Froggie


----------



## CluelessNewB

Green Frog said:


> They pioneered selling stuff online before there was an online! Mail order was the first internet sales platform before the internet existed.



Yes Sears and Montgomery Ward are/were two companies that had they not been so grossly mismanaged  could have been Amazon.  They already had the warehouse and distribution network but just lacked the management vision to realize how important the internet was going to be.  Unfortunately I personally believe most large companies end up with CEO's that surround themselves with like thinking yes men/women and board members that are no more than drinking buddies and golf partners.  They serve on each others boards and vote themselves pay raises and bonus packages.


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## wa5cab

The Ace Hardware I frequent has square head bolts.  And a lot of other odd-ball items.


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## 34_40

I just read this thread from the beginning and realized I started it almost exactly 2 years ago!  Met some nice folks and made some friends along the way too.  Thanks to you all for joining the ride and sharing along the way!


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## Wheels17

Froggie, I tried the collet and failed (repeatedly).  Both the atlas square bolts, and all the bolts I measured had shanks that were about .244-.245 and that was enough difference that my 1/4" collet wouldn't hold the bolts securely.  I was very surprised at the sensitivity to diameter. I'd heard somewhere that you could go -.008', but they are cheap collets so maybe that's the problem.  I've attached a picture of how I aligned the heads.   It is the second cut, so I'm using the 90 degree side of my angle block.













Machining Bolt



__ Wheels17
__ Apr 9, 2016



						Making a square head bolt for an Atlas Mill overarm clamp.  This is the second cut.  The first...


----------



## Green Frog

I hadn't even thought about the industry standard .005-.010 undersized shank of the bolt... so it will easily enter a quarter inch hole drilled with a worn bit, I guess.  We have some collets that will easily draw down that much, but of course they aren't for the 5-C collet blocks.  Is anything as simple as it first appears, ever?? 

Oh well, the struggle continues... if it was easy, anybody could do it!


----------



## wa5cab

You might try a 15/64" collet.  It'll be a tight fit but if you can get it into the collet, it might hold it securely.


----------



## Wheels17

I was just commenting to someone the other day.  You can buy 1/8,3/16, 1/4, 5/16,.....  sets all over the place.  Which is what I bought to start.  
But no one sells fill-in sets,  like 5/32, 7/32, 9/32, 11/32...


----------



## Green Frog

Yeah, when I was trying to assemble a set of 4-C collets for my Lempco (Sheldon) lathe about 10 years ago, I was able to easily find good ones down to the sixteenths, but the 32nds were fewer and farther between.  I think I finally got them all, though.  I kinda gave up at the 64ths level, taking only those collets that showed up in other lots, rather than actively seeking them out to buy, usually one at a time.  Those in the middle of the run might be worth having though, just for occasions such as this. 

If and when I get to that point, I'm hoping to get one of the new-made Vertical Attachments that are being currently offered and will most probably order it to use #2MT collets so I can use the same collets and tool holders that fit the spindle of the mill. If my little home shop has two different sizes and styles of collets in stock, I think that should be quite enough, thank you very much! 

My latest "challenge" is that my Z-axis seems to be broken or disconnected.  I unlocked the gib on the knee, but nothing happens when I turn the crank.  I can feel a little resistance from somewhere, but the table doesn't go up or down as it should.  Fortunately, it appears that the knee and table can be rather easily disassembled without getting into the main body of the machine, so perhaps I can fix just that and leave extensive internal renovations for later. (He says with the confidence borne of ignorance. )


----------



## wa5cab

For 3AT, 3C or 5C you can buy singles.  30 odd years ago I bought the entire set of 5C.  Most have never been used but if I ever need one, I have it.  You can buy singles of the 5C (and 3AT and 3C).  There's about a bzillion of them on eBay right now.  And a few assortments.


----------



## Green Frog

Yep, but most advertisements skip over 4-C like they don't even exist. 

Of course the #2MT collets serve a different function, and getting a set by sixteenths is pretty reasonable.


----------



## Wheels17

About the Z axis(knee):  I took my knee off (among other things) when  I moved the mill so that I could handle it myself.  When I went to put it back on, it was locked up.  On my mill, at least, there are shims between the knee and the bar that rides on the back of the square ways(held on by 3 bolts each side).  Try loosening the bolts on one side and then the other to see if that is the problem.  I had to make new shims to get the knee to work properly, but that really wasn't a big deal.    I also managed to lock up the lifting screw by running it to it's extreme (open, I think) limits.


----------



## wa5cab

Froggie,

Yes, Bass Tool lists 3AT, 3C, 3J, 5C and a couple of others but no 4C.


----------



## Green Frog

SCORE!!  As I got down near the bottom of the mess of stuff that came with my MFC, I found the drawbar I thought I was going to have to make!! It is homemade from what appears to be a 1" piece of tool steel and differs from the original (in addition to the larger diameter outboard) in that the minor diameter is about 0.008-.010 undersize, there appears to be a brass washer to act as a "bushing" instead of the taper shown on the original, and it is tightened with 2 flats at about 0.75" instead of the half inch square shown in the drawing.  BUUUTT, it works like a champ, and that's what really counts, isn't it? 

At this point, it looks like I'll be able to make some chips as soon as I sort out the knee control so I can move the table up and down (assuming I don't find anything else hidden that is wrong with it!) 

In the assorted mess of tooling, I found an arbor that appears to have an R-8 shank and a "stub arbor" with a #3 MT shank that I will try to find a home for, but still no usable arbor for the MFC.   The overarm looks like it will clean up well and be usable and the homemade brace to support the arbor from the overarm just looks like it needs a little cleaning up... it's "hell for stout" but really looks kinda clunky on that little machine.  It's made in a sort of stepped manner about 2 1/2" thick up at the top then stepped down to 1 1/2" at the lower section.  It also has a ginormous hole where the bearing/bushing goes for the arbor end, but that can be worked with, I believe.  The adventure continues! 

Froggie


----------



## 34_40

Good for you Froggie..  of course pics are required!


----------



## Steve Shannon

Green Frog said:


> SCORE!!  As I got down near the bottom of the mess of stuff that came with my MFC, I found the drawbar I thought I was going to have to make!! It is homemade from what appears to be a 1" piece of tool steel and differs from the original (in addition to the larger diameter outboard) in that the minor diameter is about 0.008-.010 undersize, there appears to be a brass washer to act as a "bushing" instead of the taper shown on the original, and it is tightened with 2 flats at about 0.75" instead of the half inch square shown in the drawing.  BUUUTT, it works like a champ, and that's what really counts, isn't it?
> 
> At this point, it looks like I'll be able to make some chips as soon as I sort out the knee control so I can move the table up and down (assuming I don't find anything else hidden that is wrong with it!)
> 
> In the assorted mess of tooling, I found an arbor that appears to have an R-8 shank and a "stub arbor" with a #3 MT shank that I will try to find a home for, but still no usable arbor for the MFC.   The overarm looks like it will clean up well and be usable and the homemade brace to support the arbor from the overarm just looks like it needs a little cleaning up... it's "hell for stout" but really looks kinda clunky on that little machine.  It's made in a sort of stepped manner about 2 1/2" thick up at the top then stepped down to 1 1/2" at the lower section.  It also has a ginormous hole where the bearing/bushing goes for the arbor end, but that can be worked with, I believe.  The adventure continues!
> 
> Froggie


There is what looks like an original 7/8" arbor, with spacers and nut on ebay right now.  It was being auctioned and stood at $75 last I noted.  I won't bid on it if you're interested.


----------



## Green Frog

OK,  34-40, you asked for it.  First here is a picture of the whole mill in all its glory.  Apparently a previous owner was a John Deere™ enthusiast or perhaps the mill "lived" in a tractor shop.  I kinda wish they had painted the stand Deere green instead of trim yellow, but at least I got the factory base cabinet in the deal.  You will notice the levers to lock the overarm are missing altogether, and although you probably cannot see them there are two grub screws threaded into the top of the housing to lock down on a flat ground on the overarm.  Under the belt guard the belts are link type rather than original.  Other than those changes, what's left seems pretty much original. 





Next here are a couple of pix of the drawbar, the overarm, and the (homemade and in-progress) overarm brace.  Obviously the brace is short on pretty but "hell for stout."  I think I can shave some of the excess weight off of the brace and maybe make it look a little more graceful, otherwise the whole thing will probably be scrapped and I'll start again from scratch.  I first thought of repainting my mill back to original and trying to find as many original parts as I could,   but then I started to think outside the box and decided to do what works rather than spending too much time making my mill "right" rather than making it MINE!   In fact, a couple of wags decorated the belt guard with a Frog Face in my honor!  







The overarm will obviously need a lot of cleaning before it can be used, and the brace is definitely a "work in progress."  The drawbar is usable just as is, but I really want to give it some more threading and bevel the face of the body like it appears in the drawings I've seen.  I'll leave the body a full 1" in diameter since there's plenty of room for it, but will cut two more flats on the back to make a 3/4" square to turn it.  Thanks to my new friend Wheels17 I'm well on my way to getting the proper locks made up for the overarm  by the time I have the overarm cleaned up and ready to use, and then on to the brace.  All in all, I should be able to devote my time and funding to getting it actually working, rather than fancy/pretty. 

The adventure continues!


----------



## 34_40

I love it!  Way cool and thanks for the pics..


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## Green Frog

Glad my Atlas/Deere didn't get me banned from the forum (yet  )  Now that I'm out of the tool closet with it, I hope everyone will still be willing to play with me! 



Steve Shannon said:


> There is what looks like an original 7/8" arbor, with spacers and nut on ebay right now.  It was being auctioned and stood at $75 last I noted.  I won't bid on it if you're interested.



Yes, Steve and thanks for the consideration.  I did see that one and I put in a lowball bid and bookmarked it.  I planned to bid on it some more over the remaining 3 days if it doesn't go TOOOO high, but from the early bidding, I'm not too hopeful.  I'll probably put in a bid sometime tomorrow just to stay in the chase.  In the meanwhile, I found a nice chunk of 1" tool steel and am wondering whether I could turn up a nice little stub arbor which would be useful until I get the overarm and brace operational and which would be good practice for me as well.


----------



## Green Frog

I took these pictures today of what I assume is the kick out cam (or what passed for one) on my MFC.  never having seen another one "in the flesh" I don't know for sure what I've got.  I DO note that the locking nut is a little bunged up from a poorly fitted wrench or something similar, but the cast piece that IS the cam seems to be OK if indeed that's what I've got. 







so comes today's newbie question.  Does this look like it might be the original kickoff cam unit, and whether original or not, does the cam look like it might be workable?  In my naiveté, did I find something pretty useful and good to have? 

BTW, it appears that I have pretty much taken over this thread of late and treated it as my own.  If this is a "*bad thing"* and I need to start my own thread I'll be happy to do so, but this one seemed to be headed where I wanted to go, so I am just hitching a ride.  If this is a breech of H-M Forum etiquette, please forgive and I will start my own.


----------



## CluelessNewB

Green Frog said:


> Does this look like it might be the original kickoff cam



It looks like mine, so I'm guessing yes!  The nut appears to be a bit bigger than mine.  

I can't believe what some people are asking for them on ePay.


----------



## 34_40

Froggie,  we've got lotsa room in here so no sweat on my part - I've no problem sharing.

That kick out piece looks original to me...   and like the others, I can't believe what they cost on epay!  I tried making one but I don't think I've got the angle to the lead in ramp just right.  It seems to bind more than I like to see.

On your mill, in the top pic, what is mounted to the table?  An indexer?


----------



## Green Frog

Thanks, 34_40.  One of the things I enjoy most about this forum is the congenial attitude here.  In the last couple of weeks I've been brought up to speed in a way that could have only been improved with my own personal instructor.  You guys have been truly great to "be with" even if only virtually.   

The item on the table of my mill is simply a machinist's vise, not the indexer I would also like to own.  It's not attached in any way, I just set it there temporarily because I needed a spot for it to be!  I've got a half dozen T-nuts that came with the mill but I can't bolt it down in any kind of secure manner.  I just bought a pair of 1-2-3 blocks with their bolts, so that's a start.  I also have the main body of a machinist's vise that I started in a class I once audited... I may be able to adapt it to bolt down to the table by drilling a couple of strategically placed holes.  I'm also considering buying the econo-version of the swiveling vise Atlas made for it, but I'm wondering whether it would be stout enough.

Would tracing my kick out cam do you any good, or is it the 3-D relationship of all the curves and angles that makes this work?  I MIGHT be able to get it copied in either brass, aluminum, or perhaps cast iron at school when the foundry class starts up the next time... would that be a useful thing?  Would either of those materials (which are what they use to do their casting) be suitable for the purpose?  I just took mine off of the machine and it appears to be original (has the Atlas triangle cast into a hidden surface.)  From looking at it seems to show very little wear.  It looks like either cast steel or cast iron... does that sound about right?  From the little bit of stress this thing takes, it looks like I could even use cast brass and get pretty good service out of it.



PS  I just re-watched my Rudy Kouhoupt DVD on operating this mill and came up with several questions.  I'm wondering whether I would get more responses by posing them in this thread or by starting a new one with his name in the title?


----------



## CluelessNewB

I'm about 99% sure my cam is cast iron.   I don't see why a brass (or maybe even better a silicon bronze alloy) casting wouldn't work.   Brass might wear faster but for home use would probably last a lifetime.


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## Green Frog

Back to 34-40's question about an indexer... I occasionally see an odd fixture by Weldon(?) pop up on the auction sites.  It is described as being a drill sharpening fixture and it takes 4-C collets.  I've already got a set of the collets so I'm wondering whether I could perhaps cobble together an indexer based on that?  Of course unless somebody already had the collets, it wouldn't make much sense to embark on that path I guess, but since I already worked so hard to get the collets... 

Back to the kick out cam... Do you guys think there would be sufficient market for me to have a small lot of them made, say 10 or 12?  I went back and looked at the prices they are actually bringing and was blown away... it's really a pretty simple casting with only minimal finish work on the critical surfaces!


----------



## VSAncona

There are two sizes of cams -- the casting on the earlier one is longer. When the MFC came out, Atlas had to make the cam shorter so that it could pass behind the overarm support. They also changed the length of the kickout lever on the gearbox, so an earlier cam won't work on the MFC and vice versa.


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## Green Frog

Vince,

 As I went back and looked at the pictures accompanying the e-Bay ads, it would appear that one of the cams just had a very small projection out of the bottom, while the other had a sort of curved piece that passed under and to the right of the locking nut.  The one that came to me on my MFC is of the latter style... but it seems like you are saying this won't work for me if I want to use the vertical brace between the crank and the upper brace, is that correct?  At this point, I'm not planning on using that brace (since I don't even have one) so I should be OK, but again if I understand you correctly, if I ever DO get the front brace I'll need the other cam to use all of it at once, right?

I'll repeat my question, though... with the silly prices these things are bringing, would there be a market for reproductions of this part if my school's foundry could make it in say, cast iron?  If yes, should I expect to provide it as a raw casting to be drilled and finished by the end user, or as a finished, ready to install part with bolt and nut?


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## VSAncona

The earlier (longer) one won't contact the kickout handle on the gearbox of the MFC. At least it wouldn't on my mill. The cam doesn't line up with the little roller on the gearbox handle. I think that in order to allow the table to slide past the overarm brace, Atlas had to shorten the length of the gearbox handle and kickout cam body so that they didn't stick out as far, but that's just a guess on my part. 

Here's a photo of both styles side by side on my MFC. The kickout cam on the left is the one that came with my MFC. The one on the right is the earlier style.


----------



## Green Frog

Thanks, Vince.  That one picture is exactly what was needed to clear up all questions.  I'll have to look at mine with that picture in hand on my tablet, but I am hoping that I have the right combination of parts on my MFC for them to work together.  I'm guessing that there would be about an equal market for both lengths, or would it be greater for one style or the other based on how many of the machines were made... that would lead to needing more MFC style, right?  I'm still not getting enough response to decide whether to pursue having even a small run of them cast(?)  Should I try to find the other style and as part of the same project have a limited casting run of both done?

Froggie


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## VSAncona

I don't have an answer for you on that one. You could start a separate post and see how many people would be interested in ordering one to give you an idea of the interest level. I'm on another forum where people do that fairly often. If they get enough responses, they place an order for a small run. I've purchased a couple of reproduction items that way.


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## Rob

Green Frog said:


> I'll repeat my question, though... with the silly prices these things are bringing, would there be a market for reproductions of this part if my school's foundry could make it in say, cast iron?  If yes, should I expect to provide it as a raw casting to be drilled and finished by the end user, or as a finished, ready to install part with bolt and nut?



I think there would be a market depending on what price you would have to put on it.  I know that they have a high price for the ones on EBay but the same ones seem to keep getting relisted several times.  At the high price they don't move fast. 

On the raw casting or the finished product it depends on how much time you want to put into it.  I would think that the raw casting would be cheaper and would sell faster.  Also if you did the raw casting it looks like you could just do a single casting and have the end user mill the length as needed.  Looking at the above photo it appears that the shorter one is the same casting just milled shorter.  The square portion next to the table is longer on the longer older style than on the new style.


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## Green Frog

Vince, you are right about arranging a separate thread... I'm just starting to get a feel now for whether there would be such a market.  I'm thinking like Rob that it might be able to make a single "master casting" that could be finished (by me or by the end user) to the needed length.  As a matter of fact, it appears from what I can transpose between your picture (Vince) and mine, it would appear that mine is somewhat different from both of yours, with a length close to the shorter, but somewhere between it and the longer one.  Of course dealing with a photo on the screen of a tablet and the actual measurement here required me to get creative with my measurement techniques! 

Tomorrow I'll have the opportunity to talk to my boss, the Department Chairman/Dean about the schedule for foundry classes and what materials will be available.  I may be whistling in the dark anyway, but if I don't ask, I won't know!   Wish me luck!


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## Wheels17

If you made it in 2 pieces, it would be a pretty simple project.  A tubular  part that spaces out from the face of the table, and the ramp part out of plate.  Slots and tabs to keep the relationships right.

I have one already, or I'd be making drawings.....


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## 34_40

Froggy, I went back to your first pic and it appears that I'm seeing something behind the table of the mill , and I can now see the small vise.
Thanks for clearing that up!!

I would be very interested in your efforts to cast that piece and if it wasn't too pricey I'd love to get me one.
And it seems like you got the distances covered too!


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## VSAncona

I think Rob is correct -- they both appear to be the same casting. The MFC version is just milled down shorter. And the back of the cam section is ground out a bit to clear the locking knob on the front of the table.


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## Green Frog

I just checked at school and they don't do cast iron, only soft brass and aluminum.  I did find a possible source of getting a casting made however, so I'm still on the hunt.  It looks like maybe I'll have to make some sort of model based on my MFC version, then stretch out the bolster where it fits against the front face of the table and make one sort of "blank" version, then make sure it will be adaptable to both versions of the kick out lever.  Do  you (Vince) think it would work OK with the thinned down cam section to use it on the earlier (pre-MFC) models, or should my proposed "blank" have the thicker cam and have to be milled for the MFC application? 

Keep in mind folks, that I really have no dog in this fight since I have a perfectly good kick out cam on my MFC... I'm just seeing what seems to be a need and sort of spitballing some ideas to see what I might be able to do to "pay it forward" for some of the help I've been getting here.  If it really isn't something that is needed, I've got lots of other stuff that needs doing on my MFC and on my lathe to bring them up to the level I need so I can easily find other projects if this one isn't really necessary.


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## wa5cab

Froggie,

First thing that you should do if you decide to pursue this is to call Clausing and see whether or not you can get copies of the factory drawings.  That'll definitively answer the question of whether or not the kickout for the C models can be made from the one for the B and earlier.


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## Rob

Clausing sent me a tiff file of the drawing for the kick out. Unable to upload tiff files but I sent a copy to Spiral-Chips and he cleaned it up and sent me a cleaned copy as a jpg.


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## Green Frog

34_40 said:


> Froggy, I went back to your first pic and it appears that I'm seeing something behind the table of the mill , and I can now see the small vise.
> Thanks for clearing that up!!
> 
> I would be very interested in your efforts to cast that piece and if it wasn't too pricey I'd love to get me one.
> And it seems like you got the distances covered too!



What you are probably seeing is the disk of a combination sander on a table behind the mill and various other junk back there.  Unfortunately, it is easy to get distracted by the clutter in my basement/shop... there is certainly plenty of clutter there!  You've piqued my interest in a dividing head or something similar though... they can be very useful with a horizontal mill.  As I said in previous post, I have been cogitating on how I could get a leg up on building such a unit.

As for the price of that kick out cam... if I can get a good casting made and provide it "raw" but ready to use with minimal D-I-Y machining and fitting, would you be interested in it, or would it take a finished, ready-to-install part to attract your interest?  Note previous post about why I am embarking on this project.

Regards,
Froggie


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## Green Frog

Thank you very much, Rob.  I continue to be blown away by the knowledge on this forum and the generosity of its members to share.  I'll take this drawing to the college machine shop the first of next week and see whether the head instructor there would like to let one of his students program it into the 5-axis CNC machine.  Meanwhile, I'll continue to chase down the casting information as well.  BTW, the instructor in question owns one of the Atlas Horizontals, one of the Shapers, and a couple of years ago I even helped him acquire the little 6" lathe to match , so he has a vested interest in parts for this machine!


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## CluelessNewB

This is what the kick out that Rudy Kouhoupt made for his Atlas looked like.  No castings!


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## Green Frog

Well heck, if this works and is as simple to make as it looks, would it be worth going to the trouble to try to duplicate the original?


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## JPMacG

If you duplicate the original casting and can keep it inexpensive I would be interested.


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## 34_40

Green Frog said:


> What you are probably seeing is the disk of a combination sander on a table behind the mill and various other junk back there.  Unfortunately, it is easy to get distracted by the clutter in my basement/shop... there is certainly plenty of clutter there!  You've piqued my interest in a dividing head or something similar though... they can be very useful with a horizontal mill.  As I said in previous post, I have been cogitating on how I could get a leg up on building such a unit.
> 
> As for the price of that kick out cam... if I can get a good casting made and provide it "raw" but ready to use with minimal D-I-Y machining and fitting, would you be interested in it, or would it take a finished, ready-to-install part to attract your interest?  Note previous post about why I am embarking on this project.
> 
> Regards,
> Froggie


 
Again, thanks for the info on the view in the picture.  And you are right about becoming to easily distracted with other prjects.  and in that regard - don't sweat the kick-out.  It now appears we have prints and pictures of what others have created and can act as guidance.  Since your task would seem to be getting harder and more complicated, let it go..  and thanks for initiating the help.


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## Wheels17

Not really a substitute for a proper dividing head, but a spin indexer can get you 360 single degree increments.    Mounting on an Atlas could get tricky with the single slot.  Probably bolt to a plate, then bolt the plate to the mill.

They run about $50 for the chinese ones.  $7 or $8 for  a collet or three, and you can do some reasonable indexing.  

Changing subjects back a few pages to the overarm locks, I decided to do something goofy to make the rubber spacer for the lock.  I bought a black rubber stopper from the hardware store for a buck, chucked it gently in the 3-jaw on the lathe and slowly drilled a hole through it.  It worked!!  Then, I put it on an arbor(here's where things started to go wrong) and tried a number of things to reduce the outside to 5/8".  Conventional cutters didn't work well, but abrasive paper and a coarse file both worked well.  Unfortunately, the torque on the rubber screwed my arbor (bolt in a hole) into the hole, compressed the cork, and when I took it off, it was undersize a bit.  I sliced down the side with a sharp knife, and got something close.  

I'll have to rethink and try again.  I think I might have some cork borers on a shelf somewhere. Green Frog, with your university access you could probably swing by a chem lab and punch one out in a couple of minutes.  The black rubber stoppers seem to be about the right durometer for the lock.


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## JPMacG

Hockey puck?  They are hard rubber (vulcanized?).


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## wa5cab

Rob,

JPG is absolutely the worst possible file type to use for anything mechanical or electrical.  Can you please send  the .original TIF file to wa5cab@cs.com?


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## Wheels17

I think the hockey puck would be too hard.   I am using them for antivibration feet on my mill.  And got flamed pretty good for it (as I expected) over at practical machinist....


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## Rob

wa5cab said:


> Rob,
> 
> JPG is absolutely the worst possible file type to use for anything mechanical or electrical.  Can you please send  the .original TIF file to wa5cab@cs.com?



The original has been forwarded to your email.


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## Rob

Frog give
After seeing what clueless posted I Agree with 34_40 that it would be easy to make on my own. Thanks for starting the discussion on it though. That did bring out another idea on making it and sometimes that is the hard thing to come up with.


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## CluelessNewB

FYI The July-August 2001 issue of "The Home Shop Machinist" has drawings for the cam.  Rudy made the T nut and the cam part out of steel and the body out of aluminum.


----------



## Mondo

Green Frog said:


> Thank you very much, Rob.  I continue to be blown away by the knowledge on this forum and the generosity of its members to share. ....



You haven't seen our bill!  

Spiral_Chips


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## Firebrick43

Wheels17 said:


> I think the hockey puck would be too hard.   I am using them for antivibration feet on my mill.  And got flamed pretty good for it (as I expected) over at practical machinist....



I to use hockey pucks for vibration feet a get a kick at the flamers on PM. Lots of good info but I rarely post there because of the attitudes

Let me look Monday but I may have some polyurethane of the right durometer for the cotters.


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## Green Frog

The black rubber stoppers that chem labs are using now instead of cork seem pretty hard to me.  Not hockey puck hard, but still pretty hard.  What kind of hardness (or should I say, how much give) do the middle spacers need?  I haven't used a cork borer for years, but maybe I can find one big enough to cut out the body, cookie cutter fashion before boring out the hole through the middle.


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## 34_40

Since I've been lax in sharing pics here are a couple from this past week.
Also a very short video, I hope it works, I've never tried this one before.




Seems to be a problem with uploading a video...  sorry


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## Green Frog

From the pix, I'm guessing that would show a whole lot of the action since the belt guards are off, so we can see stuff happening.  Please keep trying to get the video posted if you can and if it's not too much trouble.  Since my MFC is sitting idle waiting for me to get the knee mechanism straightened out, it's nice to get a vicarious fix of Atlas and I've already used up all the ones I could find on you tube and have about worn out my DVD of Rudy playing with his MFC.


----------



## 34_40

I don't have any of the guards so it's run what ya' brung! LOL..
I keep hearing about this Rudy video and only get to see a clip of it on some website, but you can't rent it any longer....   if any of you that have them would care to rent them out..  I'd be interested in seeing them! It might help offset your original purchase costs?

I'm using the Atlas to make a tramming tool, so I started with the main "body" or "beam"...   after cutting it out of a larger piece,  I'm going over the sides to smooth them, today I'll try a setup to bevel the edges.  Then I'll need to order the indicators and fit them in..  I want them to set in to the beam/body.


----------



## wa5cab

34-40,

Do you get an error message similar to this?


----------



## Green Frog

34-40, my copy had a flaw (flaws actually) in it when it came, and each time I play it it skips worse.  Once I get it swapped (if I can) I'll be happy to loan it to you... just pay worshiping.  How's that sound?


----------



## 34_40

wa5cab,  No.  it's a mov file and the program won't even look for it.  The browse function doesn't list that file extension.

Froggie, that would be AWESOME!  wow.  TIA!

Disaster struck today.  I engaged the auto-feed and didn't realize the table was already near the end of travel..  yep... POW!  blew out a gear.  
Looks like M6-161-20 needs to be replaced now.   I'm assuming the number is good for my MF too.
Hope I can find one, or I'll have to part out his one.


----------



## Wheels17

I'm really sorry to hear that.  Were you feeding to the left so that  you ran out of threads on the leadscrew? 

When I was cleaning and reassembling mine, I noticed that there's an automatic trip(drive trip pin) that will push the drive engagement pin out of engagement independent of the trip on the front of the table when feeding the table to the right.  This seemed very strange to me, as that's the climb milling direction, which is FORBIDDEN in many places in their documentation.  When I was feeding (by hand) to watch the trip happen, I found that my table binds dramatically about 1/8" from the trip activating.  If I'd been counting on this, I would have blown up something on my mill.  You may have saved me from the same fate!  Thank you!

For now, I think I'll just put in a longer drive trip pin to be sure I don't mess up.




Somewhere someone suggested replacing one of the pins in the universal joint with aluminum to make a "shear  pin".    Not sure how well that would work. 

I was looking at the parts diagram and couldn't find the M6-161-20.    Do you  mean M6-101-20?  The small gear on the inside of the middle shaft of the outer three gear sets?


If that's the right gear, don't panic.   They do come up on ebay, and sometimes at reasonable prices.  Three  sold on 1/29/16 for $17.99, and 2  sold on March 24 for $14.  (plus shipping in both cases).  
There's one for about $30 right now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unused-Craf...539232?hash=item35ff3e4b20:g:Vj8AAOSw3mpXEmnk  That link is strange, as the title says unused, the item condition says "used" and the description below says unused.  

I think these were the same as the lathe change gears, someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.   http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/ states "All Atlas 9-inch, 10-inch and 12-inch lathe used changewheels of 16DP with a 14.5-degree pressure angle, a face width of 0.375", a bore of = 0.753  and a "double" keyway 0.1875" wide."  If the gear doesn't come up, perhaps it could be made, but I'm sure that would cost more than the $30 one on ebay.


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## Rob

The m6 in the PN means it is from a 6 inch lathe. The gears used on the 6 inch are different.  You might give Clausing a call. A lot of the time new parts are cheaper than used off eBay. They still carry a lot of the lathe parts. Not so much with the mill and shaper specific parts.


----------



## Rob

Wheels17 said:


> When I was cleaning and reassembling mine, I noticed that there's an automatic trip(drive trip pin) that will push the drive engagement pin out of engagement independent of the trip on the front of the table when feeding the table to the right.  This seemed very strange to me, as that's the climb milling direction, which is FORBIDDEN in many places in their documentation.  When I was feeding (by hand) to watch the trip happen, I found that my table binds dramatically about 1/8" from the trip activating.  If I'd been counting on this, I would have blown up something on my mill.  You may have saved me from the same fate!  Thank you!
> 
> For now, I think I'll just put in a longer drive trip pin to be sure I don't mess up.



I wonder if this was a upgrade.  On my MFB I do not have this option.  I just looked and both plates on the ends of the table for the lead screw are the same.  I do plan on making larger dials and when I do I think I will add this option as well as making a couple of kickouts for each end.


----------



## Green Frog

34_40 said:


> Froggie, that would be AWESOME!  wow.  TIA!
> 
> Disaster struck today.  I engaged the auto-feed and didn't realize the table was already near the end of travel..  yep... POW!  blew out a gear.
> Looks like M6-161-20 needs to be replaced now.   I'm assuming the number is good for my MF too.
> Hope I can find one, or I'll have to part out his one.



Sounds like you are about due for a LUCKY break!  You just got your bad Karma delivered for a while.  I would do as somebody suggested and contact Clausing... the Change-O-Matic gear box is said to have been very lightly adapted from the lathe gear box which was made a LOT longer. The parts numbers would support this.

I'll need to contact the disrtributor about my disk and (hopefully) a replacement.  I'll let you know how that works out.


----------



## 34_40

Wheels17 said:


> I'm really sorry to hear that.  Were you feeding to the left so that  you ran out of threads on the leadscrew?
> 
> When I was cleaning and reassembling mine, I noticed that there's an automatic trip(drive trip pin) that will push the drive engagement pin out of engagement independent of the trip on the front of the table when feeding the table to the right.  This seemed very strange to me, as that's the climb milling direction, which is FORBIDDEN in many places in their documentation.  When I was feeding (by hand) to watch the trip happen, I found that my table binds dramatically about 1/8" from the trip activating.  If I'd been counting on this, I would have blown up something on my mill.  You may have saved me from the same fate!  Thank you!
> 
> For now, I think I'll just put in a longer drive trip pin to be sure I don't mess up.
> 
> View attachment 127280
> 
> 
> I was looking at the parts diagram and couldn't find the M6-161-20.    Do you  mean M6-101-20?  The small gear on the inside of the middle shaft of the outer three gear sets?
> View attachment 127279
> 
> If that's the right gear, don't panic.   They do come up on ebay, and sometimes at reasonable prices.  Three  sold on 1/29/16 for $17.99, and 2  sold on March 24 for $14.  (plus shipping in both cases).
> There's one for about $30 right now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unused-Craf...539232?hash=item35ff3e4b20:g:Vj8AAOSw3mpXEmnk  That link is strange, as the title says unused, the item condition says "used" and the description below says unused.


 
1- Yes, I was "accidently" feeding to the left.  I was chatting with someone at the same time and failed to notice that the table was at the end of it's travel.  I'll have to investigate this pin for the auto kickout feature.
2- Yes, I did mean M6-101-20.  I'll "blame" my fat fingers for the typo this time.. LOL..
3- Thanks for the link.  I'll probably scoop it up once I get home from work.


----------



## 34_40

Thanks Froggie..  I'll take some GOOD Karma for awhile....


----------



## Green Frog

I got a reply back from the vendor... he's sending me a fresh copy of the disc.  After I've had time to watch it through, I'll be ready to loan it to you.  If you will send me an alert (or PM or whatever we call them around here) with your snail mail address and I'll ship it off to you within a few days of it getting here.

I find also that the video and pictures from "Blue Chips" helps with visualizing what I need to do myself.


----------



## 34_40

Blue Chips???   Wha?!?!?!?!   LOL..

Thank You so much!   Message is on it's way, or whatever they call it here! rofl..


----------



## wa5cab

34-40,

Most of the parts used on an MFC are the same as those used on the MF.  However, in Downloads is Atlas Mill Bulletin MMB-5, which covers all 12 models (from M1 through MHC).


----------



## Green Frog

34_40 said:


> Blue Chips???   Wha?!?!?!?!   LOL..
> 
> Thank You so much!   Message is on it's way, or whatever they call it here! rofl..



Blue Chips Machine Shop has a dot com site where he sells stuff and posts blogs and YouTube style videos from time to time.  He did a clean-up of a MFC before selling it a couple of years ago and last time I checked the blog he posted on it was still up.

I'm still new enough on this forum that some of the terminology is still a little arcane to me.  I'm used to referring to PMs (personal messages) but we don't have that pulldown in our banner here.  Whatever it's called, I got one from you and sent a response which you should have by now.


----------



## Mondo

Green Frog said:


> ....
> 
> I'm still new enough on this forum that some of the terminology is still a little arcane to me.  I'm used to referring to PMs (personal messages) but we don't have that pulldown in our banner here.  Whatever it's called, I got one from you and sent a response which you should have by now.



PMs here are call "conversations" and you can invite others, or block others from being invited.

Spiral_Chips


----------



## Green Frog

Cool!  How do I go about starting such a thing or invite others to one that I've become involved in?


----------



## Mondo

On the navigation bar, click on "members".  Find or search for the member you wish to converse with, click on "Start a Conversation" below their avatar.

Spiral_Chips


----------



## 34_40

You can also click on their name ( on the left)  right in the thread and a box pops up, then choose start a conversation.


----------



## 34_40

Green Frog said:


> Blue Chips Machine Shop has a dot com site , He did a clean-up of a MFC before selling it a couple of years ago and last time I checked the blog he posted on it was still up.


 
It was bugging me and way back on page 1 or 2 of this thread I posted a link to that very site...  I guess my memory isn't all that bad!?!?!  LOL.


----------



## 34_40

Anyone have a number for the spindle drive belt?


----------



## Rob

When I took my old belts to NAPA they gave me a NAPA 5L280W and that is what I put on my MFB.


----------



## 34_40

Thank You Rob!


----------



## wa5cab

Rob,

That agrees with or confirms what someone else (I didn't record whether here or on Yahoo) had reported as a Gates 3280, which crosses to a 5L280.

34-40,

Back to Conversations (AKA PM's), another way to get to your Conversations is to hover your mouse pointer over INBOX toward the right on the upper navigation bar.  A drop-down should appear.  Slide down and click on the word "Conversations".  Or, below "Conversations" you will see the title and a little info on your last three PM's (at least you will after you have sent or received at least three).  You can go from the NAV bar directly into one of those by clicking on its title.


----------



## 34_40

Thanks for the info on conversations Robert, but it was Froggie who was asking...   But we can all use the education I'm sure.


----------



## 34_40

Any of you folks know how to remove the spindle?  I've been searching but I don't seem to find the info to change the belt.

under edit, I finally found it!  and I had the info the whole time!  sometimes we can't see the forest for the tree!  LOL.


----------



## Green Frog

Just for MY information, did you use the instructions from the MMB manual in the Downloads section?


----------



## wa5cab

34-40,

Sorry.  My trifocals sometimes get in the way.


----------



## 34_40

Green Frog said:


> Just for MY information, did you use the instructions from the MMB manual in the Downloads section?


 
Yes!


----------



## 34_40

trifocals huh?...  my bi's are enough for now I hope.

Got my new belt from NAPA,  and it says on the back - made by Gates with the Gates number also right there!
Hope to install it tomorrow night.

Thanks for the help guys!


----------



## wa5cab

Yep, I used bifocals for about 20 years.


----------



## Wheels17

My old belt was really torn up due to extreme misalignment of the countershaft (discussed in another thread).  I measured the existing belt and it was .625 wide and .350 deep, and a length of 28 1/4".
The pulley only seems to be about .610 across the top.

The  5L profile is 5/8 across the top and 11/32 (.344)  high (http://www.vbelts4less.com/V-Belt-Specs_ep_45.html) and they also refer to it as a B series on that page. 
Yet on another page they list "classic B" (http://www.vbelts4less.com/Classic-B-Section-V-Belt_c_25.html) as 21/32(.656)

I chickened out on the spindle work and bought a link belt: 

*Fenner Drives PowerTwist Plus 5/8" B Link V-Belt *

*Profile shape:* Vee
*Profile size:* B/17/5L
*Color:* Red
Again, mixing B and 5L.  Even though they call it a 5L alternative, it is about .654 across the top, or 21/32 like the B specification.   It seems to ride  high in the pulleys for my taste.  Seems to pull fine so far.



Their chief competitor, Jason Industrial, has this picture in their brochure:


so maybe that's how they're supposed to ride.

There's another factor at play as well.  Lathe.co.uk has this quote:

"The drive belt was an unusual size of steel-band reinforced V belt - which has caused some replacement problems in recent years; one solution is to use a "Wedge belt", a deep-sided, heavy-duty version of the standard V belt. "

I went wandering off through Colvin, Machinery's (3 different versions) and the web and now I'm confused even more.   The wedge version is too deep.  Whichever belt is to be used should be a (belt)X version, as they are cogged like my original and can handle smaller pulley diameters.  Machinery 24 lists minimum pulley diameter for B belts as 5.4 inches, and a BX belt as 4 inches.  If I look at the pulley dimensions, the top of the pulley measures about .610, which is near the recommended .600 for a 5V series belt, but the 5V series belts are way too deep at 17/32".  And the pulley groove is too shallow at  .395  or so versus .750 min for the 5V.  The B/BX belts call for .730 pulley groove depth so the pulley is way off there as well.

The 5L belt shows  a pulley groove depth of .580, which is closer to the .395.  The 5L does allow a minimum pulley diameter of 3.5".

I don't understand what the old belt was, unless it was something totally custom.  The small countershaft sheave seems to have an included angle of 30 degrees, which is narrower than any of the standards as well.

So, after all that, the 5L280 sure seems to be the only  modern equivalent.....   And maybe the link belts are OK as well, based on the pictures.   Does anyone who has run the link belts on the mill for a while have a comment?


----------



## 34_40

I've run the green link belt. Got it from the national cheapy tool store for 1/4 of the price that you see it on ebay.
I found that it runs right to the bottom of the pulley V..  But it may be that my pulleys are worn too??
I hope to get into the shop tonite and swap in the new belt.  So I'll know how this new belt fits.  When I picked up my mill there was no
spindle belt, the P.O. had cut it away as it was pretty raggedy and he had intended on replacement.  So I don't have any idea how well
it ( old belt) fit into the vee.


----------



## Wheels17

The national cheapy store only lists  a 1/2" belt (4L, A, etc...) at this time.
I did exactly what you say in your next to last sentence, but I did have the belt to measure and the one on my mill was clearly 5/8 wide.


----------



## 34_40

Success! I got the spindle out, and the bearings aren't to bad off.  Dry as the Sahara in the bearing case but the bearings themselves still had lube.
I also trial fitted the belt into the pulley after washing it and it fits just perfect.

SO grab yourself a copy of the MMB and read it a couple times to get familiar with the locations and the pieces and take your time, it is probably harder to reassemble and holding all the parts in alignment.

I should be able to get the spindle back in with clean lube and then go into the cleaning and reassembly of the table drive system repair, the new gear showed up also.
With a little patience from the wife I'll get some shop time this weekend.. 
 or I'll be spreading loam for the new lawn..


----------



## Mondo

You are ahead of me...  I got the spindle out, didn't like the feel of the dry bearings and purchased NOS replacements.  No mill refurb work this weekend for me, I have a welding project to get done:  Loading ramps for an 18x8 trailer that took me 3 years to build.

Spiral_Chips


----------



## 34_40

Good Luck with the ramps.
It's raining here so no yard work for now..  I was called in to work at 2:30 AM for a few hours and just got up.  Now I gotta find some coffee.


----------



## Wheels17

I used to be subject to those middle of the night call-ins.  I don't miss them a bit.  You have my sympathy.

I'm interested in your comment "bearings themselves still had lube".  I thought the spindle bearings were lubricated by the oil cups inside the body of the mill.  When I oil mine there, the oil runs out of the spindle in front and back.  Did yours have some sort of grease or something?  Good luck with the re-assembly.


----------



## 34_40

Wheels17 said:


> I used to be subject to those middle of the night call-ins.  I don't miss them a bit.  You have my sympathy.
> 
> I'm interested in your comment "bearings themselves still had lube".  I thought the spindle bearings were lubricated by the oil cups inside the body of the mill.  When I oil mine there, the oil runs out of the spindle in front and back.  Did yours have some sort of grease or something?  Good luck with the re-assembly.


 
Yeah, fixin' water pipes in the night ain't for wimps.

I was concerned that the cavity the bearing rests in was so dry, but the bearing itself was wet with lube.  Was it oil or grease?  IDK..  it was black and felt slippery. LOL.
I need to get a couple of the oilers too.  I can't see where they went.

I do oil the spindle as well as the other points before use but who knows what the previous users did.  I am going to wipe some grease into the bearings before install for my piece of mind. I'm also considering going into a more viscous oil for the spindles,  perhaps the same as what I use in the gearbox of the lathe.


----------



## 34_40

Anyone know which of the Gits oilers is used in the spindle area?  The MMB just says oiler.


----------



## Rob

Not sure which oiler it is but Sears still sells them so you should be able to get them from Clausing but a lot cheaper.  It is item #58 on the head and arbor support.

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/model-number/10115500/0247/0754000.html?searchTerm=101.15500


----------



## Rob

34_40 said:


> I was called in to work at 2:30 AM for a few hours and just got up.  Now I gotta find some coffee.



I also used to subjected to these calls.  I used to tell the night shift that they were just lonely and wanted company.  I do not miss that part of full time work.  Now I just have to remind my part time job that it is just *part time*.  Seems that they conveniently want to forget that part.


----------



## Wheels17

Here's a shot of my oilers for the spindle.


I took a better picture of the top, but it just says "Gits Oiler Co.  Pat."  Based on the close quarters, they must just be push-in oilers.   I put a tiny set of calipers in there and measured the base as .240, but that's above the press-in part, so they must be the next size down from 1/4"

Here's the first few listings of the press-in ones from McMaster:





While we're on the subject of oil, I'm confused by the oilers on my countershaft.  The bearings on the countershaft look like oilite bearings, not conventional bearing bronze.  There are side  oilers on the bearings, but they sat for two weeks without the shaft in and lost no oil.  The countershaft assembly doesn't look original to the mill (I had to modify it to make it line up properly) so I'm wondering if someone switched out the bearings.  The shaft itself is pristine in the bearing area.

Anybody have any experience here?  I'm tempted to pull out one of my little number drills and poke a tiny hole.


----------



## 34_40

Well I got some progress to report.
I started by removing the back drive shaft and gear, easily done.  Cleaned up those parts and noticed that there is supposed to be a screw in the center that covers the oil hole..  I found a screw that fit easily and was proud of myself for making "an improvement" if you will..

So I then got the countershaft apart from the motor drive so I could install the new belt onto the pulleys.  Had to chuck up the shaft in the lathe and pass a file over it and then polish it with some crocus cloth.  Put all that back together and then got the spindle in my sites.   The hardest part of all this (for me) is the small opening you have to get your hand into to support the pulleys / gears  / collars,   Well, add into the task of holding a NEW drivebelt and trying to align the spindle through the bearings / front gear / pulley collar.....    arrggghhhh...

So I undid the motor drive countershaft work so I could have all the slack at the spindle.  Finished all the spindle work and then returned to the motor drive countershaft and re-installed all those parts.  I noticed while lubing the drive countershaft that the oil didn't go down...  so I took a tiny screwdriver and expected it to pass through the oil hole.. but it didn't.   So that explains why the bushing look so grooved.  I pushed a 1/8" drill through and they'll get plenty of oil now.

Please with my progress...  and myself...  I pulled on the belt and spun the spindle round only to have it come to a quick stop!  And I mean "chunk"!    My heart sank.. LOL..

I'll make a long story short - remember that screw that I put into the backgear spindle to keep the lube hole clean?  Yep, even tho' I measured..  it was just a few thou. to long and caused a bind.   So it isn't all bad...

Now I can actually get to the cause of all this work...  The table auto feed drive..    Thanks for the info Wheels..  there was another fella here that got his oiler(s) from mcmaster..  but I can't find any number on his thread.  so I thank you for the info and the help.   Maybe my countershaft story helps you..


----------



## Wheels17

I think you addressed my oil question in your description of the spindle work.  When you say you "pushed" a 1/8" drill through, did  you really just push it through or did you drill it?  Did your countershaft bearing look like solid bearing material or sintered (oilite)?  I think I'm going to take one of my smallest number drills and drill a hole through the bearing. I can always make the hole bigger later, and clean up the extra oil that drips out.


----------



## 34_40

Pushed = drilled in this case.
Looks like oilite bushings.  but either I can't see any hole that was mis-aligned...  or it just didn't exist.  I wanted the oil to flush out the bearings so I went big as it were..
I just ordered a couple gits oilers from McMaster Carr, thanks for the number / help.


----------



## wa5cab

The original spindle belt for the B and C model mills was 5L280, which is 5/8" wide at the top.  If the cheap link belt runs low in the pulley, it is because it is too small, not because the pulley is worn out.

Given that the spindle was removed from the mill, there is no excuse for using a link belt.  The only valid excuse for using a link belt instead of a proper size V-belt would be if the mill was in a mission critical operation and the primary requirement was to return the mill to operation in the minimum amount of time.


----------



## wa5cab

Wheels17 said:


> I think you addressed my oil question in your description of the spindle work.  When you say you "pushed" a 1/8" drill through, did  you really just push it through or did you drill it?  Did your countershaft bearing look like solid bearing material or sintered (oilite)?  I think I'm going to take one of my smallest number drills and drill a hole through the bearing. I can always make the hole bigger later, and clean up the extra oil that drips out.



As a general statement, if the original Atlas installed bushings are solid brass, the assembly should be equipped with grease cups.  If the original assembly has oil cups. then  the original bushings were sintered bronze (Oilite).  There should never be any need to drill oil holes through replacement bushings in any Atlas machine.


----------



## 34_40

If the gouges in the bushing and shaft are any indication.. there is a definate need for lubrication. Will the shaft still turn easily in the bushings? Of course, but they'll turn easier and run longer with a lubricant added.
And I know the name says "Oilite"..  and the lube is "built in"  but it appears to have "weakened" over time as the shaft and bushings were in a less than pleasing condition.


Anytime 2 components are in contact with each other, there is a need for lubrication.


----------



## Wheels17

wa5cab, what should I expect for oil consumption with the oil cups?  I had the bracket sitting for two weeks with no countershaft in the bearings, and the oil level didn't change a bit.  I oiled everything  up when I reassembled the machine, and still see no change in the oil cup after another 3 or 4 weeks.


----------



## Rob

Wheels17 said:


> wa5cab, what should I expect for oil consumption with the oil cups?  I had the bracket sitting for two weeks with no countershaft in the bearings, and the oil level didn't change a bit.  I oiled everything  up when I reassembled the machine, and still see no change in the oil cup after another 3 or 4 weeks.



Is it possible that the oilite bearings have been replaced by someone with just bronze bearing material in the past?  I know that on all my oilite bearings with oil cups the oil will not stay that long.  It might be worth replacing the bearings with new ones.  They are readily available at most hardware stores fairly cheap.


----------



## JPMacG

Could the oilite bushings become clogged over many years?  I have a similar situation.  The oil in the cup seems to just sit there forever.  This makes me wonder if the porosity of the oilite has degraded.


----------



## 34_40

It's an old machine.  Anything is possible right?  I have no idea if the bushing was replaced or original.   I searched for a hole but couldn't see any.  Fastest way to solve the lube problem? Pop a hole in it! It hurts nothing and the lubricant can only help imho.

On another note, I got it all back together and ran a bit across the edge of my workpiece to start a bevel.

Thanks to Rob for the belt info and Thanks to Wheels17 for locating the gear for me.  Worked like a charm.   With all the cleaning - fresh lube - adjusting, the machine is so much quieter!
Until you engage the table feed..  all those straight cut gears really like to chatter.. LOL..

I did discover the tumbler handle had been broken in a previous life.  Brazed back together and works just fine.  I'd never know if I hadn't dis-assembled. I also looked closely and my auto feed doesn't have a kick out feature.. but a bracket could be added to accomplish it. 

And thanks to all of you for adding in the tips and tricks.


----------



## wa5cab

Wheels17 said:


> wa5cab, what should I expect for oil consumption with the oil cups?  I had the bracket sitting for two weeks with no countershaft in the bearings, and the oil level didn't change a bit.  I oiled everything  up when I reassembled the machine, and still see no change in the oil cup after another 3 or 4 weeks.


Wheels.

I would guess that either your bushings have been replaced with solid brass ones or that the ID is well worn and no longer porous.  I have often wondered about whether or not smearing of the pores on the ID might affect the porosity of the bushings.  And what the degradation rate is.  Plus I would expect that bushings that hadn't been used in half a century would tend to have the pores plugged up because the lighter fractions would have all evaporated, leaving only the fractions that look and behave like cured shellac.  Simple solution is to replace the bushings with ones recently manufactured.


----------



## wa5cab

34_40 said:


> If the gouges in the bushing and shaft are any indication.. there is a definate need for lubrication. Will the shaft still turn easily in the bushings? Of course, but they'll turn easier and run longer with a lubricant added.
> And I know the name says "Oilite"..  and the lube is "built in"  but it appears to have "weakened" over time as the shaft and bushings were in a less than pleasing condition.
> 
> 
> Anytime 2 components are in contact with each other, there is a need for lubrication.



34-40,

I think you misunderstood.  In all probability, a previous owner ignored the lubrication instructions.  So long as you don't drill a hole through the bushing while the shaft is installed, and you properly deburr the ID end of the hole, drilling a hole won't hurt anything.  But with properly functioning sintered bronze bushings, a hole isn't necessary.  The material is porous and oil in the oiler cup should migrate through it.  If it doesn't, either the bushing is a solid one (not original) or the pores are plugged up from decades of disuse and the bushings should be replaced.


----------



## 34_40

Robert, I believe the scenario is the latter description.  And the play isn't excessive so, I'll add oil before each use and continue along.


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  If you fill the oil cups (assuming that it has cups) and after a week or two, the oil level hasn't gone down any (if you drilled the holes it will have, of course), I would replace the bushings.


----------



## 34_40

I didn't get much time to play with the mill today.  But I did pickout some materials that I can use for my version of the "round kickout" that I want to copy from Steve Shannons picture.


----------



## 34_40

I snuck over to the shop and whipped out a crude version of the kickout found on Steve Shannon's mill.   And even in this crude unfinished form, it works wonderfully! 
I want to re-do the piece with more attention to detail.  But as it sits it is a simple and effective piece.

Thanks Steve!


----------



## Green Frog

Cool!  I guess Atlas wanted to make it look more complicated than it actually had to be so they could sell their proprietary part.  First we see Rudy's simple "wedge" solution, then Steve finds one that can be made even more easily.  Life is good, guys!  Maybe I need to learn how to think more like a machinist and think less about slavish following of the manufacturer's directions.


----------



## 34_40

"Slavish Following"...  ???...???
That is funny! 
The wheel actually does roll across the lever and it is really smooth.  Simple and effective.
The only clearance issue was the table lock needs clearancing,  Simple work for an end mill.


----------



## wa5cab

I haven't followed this closely but my take on the thing is that it's an emergency shut-down in case you drop dead during a cutting pass.  Otherwise, who is going to wait all that time for the table to run all the way to the end when it finished the cut several minutes earlier.


----------



## Steve Shannon

wa5cab said:


> I haven't followed this closely but my take on the thing is that it's an emergency shut-down in case you drop dead during a cutting pass.  Otherwise, who is going to wait all that time for the table to run all the way to the end when it finished the cut several minutes earlier.


Just so everyone knows, it's not my design. It was on my mill when I got it. It does seem simple and straightforward. Also, can't it be moved to wherever a person wants the feed to stop.


----------



## Green Frog

What Steve said.  The perceived purpose of the kickoff is not to sit off at one end of the travel but to be moved as needed to turn  off the automatic traverse at a pre-determined point.  Not absolutely necessary, but a nice feature anyway.

Froggie


----------



## 34_40

At least in my case, I use it to end a cut.  Move it to where it's needed.  Why would you go any farther??? That would be a complete waste of time and energy.
Electric costs to much now! LOL..

Anyway, just wanted to say Thanks to Steve for sharing the info and to let you all know it works very nicely.  ( easy to do also!)


----------



## wa5cab

Well, I can't locate the photo I remember seeing but I must not have understood the location or scale.  For some reason I had the impression that it was located on one end of the table.  Hence my assumption that it was a Dead-Man cutout.


----------



## Green Frog

wa5cab, in the picture Steve showed of his mill with the round substitute standard kick out cam in place, it was located at the left end of the table.  BUTTT... the nut on the front is to hold it in place and there  is a T-nut in the front slot to hold that part in place.  You can loosen it and slide the cam to any position on the slot so the cam may be located to turn the feed off whenever desired.  Mine has a nut that is loosened (see picture included.)


----------



## 34_40

wa5cab,  check out post #71 in this link.  this was the impetus for my attempt at crafting a kickout that's different.   Was this the one you were remembering?
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/atlas-mill-followed-me-home.45254/page-3


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  Your photo looks more or less like the factory part.  Where is Steve's photo?


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  Having again looked at Steve's photos, I have no idea why I thought that the disk was attached to the feed screw..  Just pretend that I never said anything.


----------



## Green Frog

Having at least three different threads going more ore less at once brings on some "leakage" between them and results in some confusion.  Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a simple fix for it without starting whole new threads, which come to think of it may bring even more confusion.  Maybe somebody more adept than I can gather the three images (original part, Rudy's version, and the one Steve found) onto one post so we can compare them in one place.


----------



## Green Frog

OK, this isn't the best comparison, but over the past month people have posted the Atlas drawing, Rudy's drawing, and a photo of the home made version that showed up with Steve's mill.  Now let's see whether I can post them all together.




That was the drawing, now let's see about the drawing from Rudy,




And finally, the elegantly simple version from Steve's mill (that a couple of others have tried out just since he posted it) it seems pretty simple even without a detail drawing.




It seems that all of them do the same thing, i.e. trip the lever to turn off the table feed (as shown in Steve's picture) and that any one of them will perform their task well.  It's really a simple job and not much is needed to get it done!


----------



## Mondo

Nice!  Thank you for posting!
Steve's design does not appear to provide a way to set the kick-out point with any certain precision, but does it need to be?  I am sure it will kick out at the same repeatable point on the disk as it is, but where is that point? I suppose with some testing a precise location could be figured out and marked on it, but when would one need such precision?  When milling to a shoulder?

I can even see where once the kick-out point has been determined the large disk could be cut to make it more like the original or RK's version.  One might be able to get more accuracy for repeatability.  Actually the more I look at it the more I can see how easily this can be modified to look like the other versions.  Nice work!

Spiral_Chips


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## Steve Shannon

All I did was buy the mill that had this on it. I didn't even know what it was!


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## Steve Shannon

By "modify it to look like the others" do you mean square?  If you do that then you also need a shoulder on the back to keep it from rotating about its bolt. With it left as it is you can turn it without having any additional operations.


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## 34_40

I copied the round version,  (thanks Steve! lol)  And the precise Kick-out point is right smack dab in the middle, right below the center of the bolt.
I'd imagine Rudy's version as well as the original version would also kick-out right at the lowest point.  Same as the round one!

I just found the round one so easy to make.  I had to try it!   And I'm glad I did!


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## Green Frog

Steve Shannon said:


> By "modify it to look like the others" do you mean square?  If you do that then you also need a shoulder on the back to keep it from rotating about its bolt. With it left as it is you can turn it without having any additional operations.



I agree, Steve.  It is a simple but effective fix.  I was a little concerned about the upper arc extending above the table's surface, but if that's not problematic, I'd be very tempted to use it exactly as is and worry about more pressing problems.  "Sufficient to the day is the evil (or problems) thereof!"  As I said in a previous post somewhere, I'm becoming more interested in having my machinery work and less interested in having it restored to original.


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## 34_40

So back a page on post 276, we had a discussion about gits oilers with a selection from McMaster Carr offered..  I purchased the smallest one and am here to report that these won't work in the head stock. These are to small.
But not to worry, since my motor drive countershaft never had any, it will in the very near future! LOL..


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## VSAncona

These are the ones I bought. They fit perfect.

http://www.amazon.com/Gits-Covers-O...psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00


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## 34_40

Thanks so much for the info, it'll be nice to know the spindle bearing is protected from dust/dirt/debris too.
And a perfect fit will be sweet! LOL..

And my countershaft will be better off as well.


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## wa5cab

I would also add the felt plugs in the spindle bearing oilers that Atlas added in the early 60's.


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## 34_40

wa5cab said:


> I would also add the felt plugs in the spindle bearing oilers that Atlas added in the early 60's.


 
Now we're going over board! LOL..  (just kidding) 
I wonder how long the cup was missing? And I wonder if the previous owner(s) added oil on any kind of a schedule.. 
No matter, we'll make it better!  Thanks to everyone!!


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## 34_40

VSAncona said:


> These are the ones I bought. They fit perfect.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Gits-Covers-O...psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00


 
So I received the oilers as shown in the link and have a question about installation.  Does it take a certain punch or drift?  Or did you tap directly on the hinged cover?
I was wondering if I needed to make a tool to push on the interior perhaps?


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## VSAncona

I don't recall exactly how I did it, but I wouldn't pound on the cover. I think I either used a length of wood dowel or a pin punch and a mallet to gently tap them into place.


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## wa5cab

The straight ones need a hardwood dowel or short length of aluminum solid round, in either case with the edges of the end rounded to sorta fit.  For the right angle ones you need a piece of 5/8" or 3/4" square bar (for just one or two, oak would work - that's what I used last year to replace two of them).  I don't recall what diameter I used but cut a round bottom slot in the end of the bar about 1-1/2 or 2 diameters deep.


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## 34_40

Thanks guys! Great minds think alike.. LOL..  I'm worried about deforming them and figured I could turn a dowel with a shoulder to push it into place using the shoulder just below the cover.
The main spindle has one original cup still in place and the 2 smaller ones that I picked up I'll add to the drive jackshaft.   All mine has is 2 small holes so adding the oilers will be a great mod.


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## george wilson

I don't want to readALL of the replies to this thread,but your rotary table is not really a rotary table,I think. It is a simple indexing table. Look at the holes around it. Those are the indexing holes that make it easier to mill a hexagon,etc..

I saw one many years ago,that had a hexagonal shaped table. It was ONLY for hexagons. Not sure how many shapes yours will mill,but it is limited.


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## 34_40

george wilson said:


> I don't want to readALL of the replies to this thread,but your rotary table is not really a rotary table,I think. It is a simple indexing table. Look at the holes around it. Those are the indexing holes that make it easier to mill a hexagon,etc..  Not sure how many shapes yours will mill,but it is limited.


 
Were you referring to this pic.?
I guess "technically" you'd be correct..  but I think even Atlas called it a rotary table.  And lets be realistic, the Atlas is only capable of so much.  I know it works well for making squares fot "Tee" handles for my chucks.


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## george wilson

If that is all you want to do with it is mill things like your chuck keys. But it isn't really "rotary". There are a number of small rotary tables on the market,though,which would fit the Atlas. Several sources offer 4" rotary tables. The next step up would be a 6",but that might bee too large to fit into the work envelope of the Atlas. Too bad a 5" isn't out there(as far as I know.)

You'll need to get a strong angle plate to use it horizontally to mill chuck keys. And then,devise a way to hold the keys while you mill them. Perhaps a VEE block with strong clamps would work after carefully centering it. I recommend that your angle plate have strong webs.

To tell the truth,if I wanted to mill chuck key squares on that mill,I'd stick it out of the side of the vise,mill a flat,then rotate it 90º, and check it with a square resting on the table. It will be MUCH more rigid. The Atlas I had worked best with narrow cutters(like 1/4" or less wide) Angled teeth are the best,too. And,they need to be SHARP.

DO MAKE yourself an OUTBOARD SUPPORT. Look on Tony Lathes site for Atlas mill pictures showing it. Back when I had the Atlas,there was no internet,and I had no catalog showing it.  My knee jerked badly when I tried to mill steel. I was young back then,and did not know better. It would have helped EL MUCHO!!! And,not that hard to make.

You can only make things so snug. The outboard is the best help you will get for the mill.

Do you know that a separate company made a slotting attachment for that mill? And someone made a simple vertical head? It was driven off the spindle by a round(?) belt,made to turn 90º by jockey pulleys. You can see it all on Tony lathes site. I visited him in England. Long train ride from London. But,the farther North you go,the better England looks. And,the trains are so much better,faster,and more modern. Very high speed.

Don't take this post the wrong way: I am trying to be helpful as an experienced machinist.

I still have the correct Atlas mill vise. It was my first mill.


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## 34_40

There is nothing to take the wrong way!  And many are here to learn and others to help.  I've never had a bad experience from anyone here.  Actually just the opposite, always someone willing to help.

I've got a Clausing 8520 also,  and a "real" 3 axis rotary table too.   Making chuck keys is one of the "projects' (while easy) gets you time with the hands on the tools.   And it's just plain fun!  So thanks for the replies George, glad you stopped by.


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## wa5cab

Atlas, in their catalogs, called it a rotary index table.  Here is a photo and description out of their Catalog M43.  Compared to a comparable size 5-1/2" rotary index table that you could find in a catalog today, it lacks the worm gear rotary drive.  But as you can see in the catalog photo, the base is engraved in one degree increments and you can rotate and lock the table at any angle from 0 to 360 degrees.  The 30 degree index holes are time savers for cases where you are for example cutting a dog clutch as in the photo.  The Atlas mill doesn't have an excess of head room.  Elimination of the gears lowered the top clamping surface.  And the Atlas machines were built for the lower end of the machine shop market (and the upper end of the hobbyest market) so it kept the cost down, which was important.




As an aside, note that the photographer who was taking the catalog photos didn't bother to install the arbor support.


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## george wilson

I should have worded my response to say,and actually thought about this last night late,after I had turned off the computer:  You cannot do rotary milling on the table because it is not what we call a true rotary table. It actually CAN rotate, of course. Just not under the power of a worm gear drive crank handle.  So,they CAN call it a rotary INDEX table,which is correct. But,it is still not just called a ROTARY table. not a big deal anyway. 

Has anyone ever seen the hexagonal  rotary index table that they  (apparently) made? A college friend had one I saw in the 60's.


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## wa5cab

I think that that is a valid comment.


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## 34_40

george wilson said:


> Has anyone ever seen the hexagonal  rotary index table that they  (apparently) made? A college friend had one I saw in the 60's.


 
I Googled & Binged the term "hexagonal rotary index table"  and found nothing but the usual rotary tables for milling operations..

I was hoping to at least find a pic or two..


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## cjtoombs

Atlas built that rotary table and a very simmilar one for the shaper.  I would say that for a horizontal mill or shaper, having the worm gear rotation is superfelous, as neither of those types of machines, in the configuration that that rotary table is designed for, can use it for anything other than indexing (you can't cut an arc with it like on a vertical machine.  I think you would be hard pressed to use one on an angle attachment with the mill, due to space.  I used on of the "spin indexers" like this to machine some hex or square ends on a part with the Atlas shaper: 




If I remember right, I clamped it to the side of the table.  This might work pretty good on an atlas mill.


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## 34_40

Thanks for chiming in CJ, you bring up some good points also.

Does that piece use a 5 C collet?  I'd love to find one that uses 3C collets as I have those for my lathe already.


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## cjtoombs

Sorry, it's 5C.  I've used it on the Atlas shaper as well as my full sized mill.  They are pretty versatile.  Unfortunately, the one I got (a Japanese made one) didn't have any reference surface to index on on the bottom plate, so you have to dial indicate it in every time if you need it to be very accurate.  None of them I have seen pictures of looked like they had any reference surfaces on the base.  I need to machine the base to eliminate that problem at some point.


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## 34_40

cjtoombs said:


> Unfortunately, the one I got (a Japanese made one) didn't have any reference surface to index on on the bottom plate, so you have to dial indicate it in every time if you need it to be very accurate.  None of them I have seen pictures of looked like they had any reference surfaces on the base.  I need to machine the base to eliminate that problem at some point.


 
Got a picture of what you're describing?  I don't understand what you mean..


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## wa5cab

I may be wrong but I assumed that he meant that it didn't have a key machined on the bottom that would automagically align it with the table slot.  Like some of the Atlas made accessories do.


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## 34_40

wa5cab said:


> I may be wrong but I assumed that he meant that it didn't have a key machined on the bottom that would automagically align it with the table slot.  Like some of the Atlas made accessories do.


 
Yes, OK..  that makes sense now.  Thanks Robert.


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## cjtoombs

wa5cab said:


> I may be wrong but I assumed that he meant that it didn't have a key machined on the bottom that would automagically align it with the table slot.  Like some of the Atlas made accessories do.


Yes, as well the sides are as cast, so you can't use them for alignment by putting a key in one of the t slots and putting it against that before clamping.


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## 34_40

I was turning out some T-slot nuts yesterday and noticed the speed chart on the cover.
It shows 3 pulleys.       But, what? Wait a minute.....

Opened the cover to verify, yep...  we've only got 2 pulleys!  Funny I never noticed it before tho'!
I don't really care, I never change the speed anyway, it's way to hard since the countershaft mounting has the shaft to close and leaves no clearance
to move the belt.  I think it's just funny I never "saw" it even after I had the head all apart!


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## CluelessNewB

It's interesting that Marvin sold a 6" rotary table for the Atlas Mill but I'm thinking it was mostly intended for using with their Vertical head attachment.  

http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlasmiller/page2.html


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## 34_40

That's a great link!  Lots of interesting reading, thanks.


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## cjtoombs

The Marvin rotary table looks much more capable than the Atlas table, but I expect the Atlas table wold do most of the things you would want to do on a horizontal mill or shaper.  There's not as much call for being able to rotate the table while machining on a horizontal or shaper than there is on a vertical mill, for cutting arcs, say.  I've only seen a couple of those come up on Ebay over the years and they tend to go for a pretty penny.


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## wa5cab

34_40 said:


> I was turning out some T-slot nuts yesterday and noticed the speed chart on the cover.
> It shows 3 pulleys.       But, what? Wait a minute.....



34/40,

What is the machine serial number?


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## 34_40

model MF, ser. number 000556


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## 34_40

cjtoombs said:


> The Marvin rotary table looks much more capable than the Atlas table, but I expect the Atlas table wold do most of the things you would want to do on a horizontal mill or shaper.  There's not as much call for being able to rotate the table while machining on a horizontal or shaper than there is on a vertical mill, for cutting arcs, say.  I've only seen a couple of those come up on Ebay over the years and they tend to go for a pretty penny.



We all know there is only so much we can do with the Atlas H. Mill, and I can't say I've even tried to use mine yet...   I'll have to come up with some project and try it out.


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## wa5cab

34-40,

Well, that is an interesting mix.  2-step pulleys and 3-step chart in a machine that shipped, at least according to the catalogs and the parts manual, with 4-step pulleys and chart.  According to the parts manual, the machine changed to 3-step pulleys and chart at serial number 001345.  I've no idea what the explanation is.


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## 34_40

Thanks Robert..  Nor do I have any explanation(s) and right now, it won't matter.
As the kids say today, it is what it is.  maybe it's just a collection of parts?  Who know?  LOL..


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## wa5cab

Yeah, there have been two or three MF's reported with 2-step pulleys.  But AFAIK,  they had either 4-step or 2-step charts.


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## 34_40

Now I'm thinking that maybe the original belt for the 4 step pulley setup was maybe narrower.
As it is right now there just is no room to make a pulley speed change, you must remove the countershaft
to have enough room at the top of the pulley to slip the belt past.

Thoughts?


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## wa5cab

I always wondered why the Countershaft Bracket changed between the A and B models.  The base and A models use a 4L spindle belt.  The B and C models use a 5L.  I have a parts MFC with the bracket (which won't fit my MFA).  But I don't have any of the other parts to go with it.  The belt guards changed.  As did the hanger, and the motor and large countershaft pulleys.  I actually need the Base and A model large pulley M1-427 as mine has a large single step cast iron pulley on the outer end of the countershaft.

However, according to the section view drawings of the MF and MFA, there is several inches between the spindle and countershaft cone pulleys.  How about posting a photo of what you actually have.


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## 34_40

I'll gladly take a pic or two.  Won't get there until this weekend tho.


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## 34_40

Here's some pics - hope it helps.


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## Silverbullet

Hopefully within a couple days ill be the owner of a very nice looking atlas mill. Found on craigslist for $500.00.  Looks good bye the picture , I've seen many selling not sold for $900.00 plus without the power feed on it. If it works as planned tomorrow my buddy will go and pick it up for me. Thank GOD I still have a friend I grew up with. He's been a God send, he just retired and gets a little bored . I will reciprocate by repairing his lawn care machines he uses to help pay his bills. One hand washes the other. When he's not deer hunting he's working around his house. YA know mommy calls the shots for all us real men. If mommy ain't happy we ain't allowed to be happy. Ill take pics. But never tried to put them on here. But ill try. Say a little prayer it all works out . Thanks


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## wa5cab

Silverbullet, good luck with the new mill.

34_40, OK.  Now I understand why the part number for the Countershaft Hanger is a B-rev - deeper throat to clear the larger belt.  Whomever changed the pulleys should also have changed the hanger and bracket.


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## 34_40

Yep,shoulda, coulda..  oh well.  it still runs as is, just not as convenient as it could be / should be.


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## wa5cab

Yep.  'twer it mine, I would be about correcting the abject stupidity shown by the PO.


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## 34_40

Well..  the budget isn't there for much more in this department.  If I could find  the parts pieces for a very good price I might end up with them.
And then do I try for the 4 pulley system? Or the 3 pulley system??
I think the serial number is early enough to do 4 pulleys but good luck finding them.


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## Silverbullet

Silverbullet said:


> Hopefully within a couple days ill be the owner of a very nice looking atlas mill. Found on craigslist for $500.00.  Looks good bye the picture , I've seen many selling not sold for $900.00 plus without the power feed on it. If it works as planned tomorrow my buddy will go and pick it up for me. Thank GOD I still have a friend I grew up with. He's been a God send, he just retired and gets a little bored . I will reciprocate by repairing his lawn care machines he uses to help pay his bills. One hand washes the other. When he's not deer hunting he's working around his house. YA know mommy calls the shots for all us real men. If mommy ain't happy we ain't allowed to be happy. Ill take pics. But never tried to put them on here. But ill try. Say a little prayer it all works out . Thanks


It's official my new to me atlas mill has been entered into the shop. First quick look one broken handle and missing crank handle. Clean and in great shape. Took DERN cold out there ,my crippled old body didn't like it. The guy thru in a chest with drawers and flip up lid with a dozen or so wood turning chisel long handle jobs . One is a carbide tip long handle model. Ill be selling them anyone know what there worth?


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## 34_40

Congrats SB! Now we'll expect a new thread And of course lots of pictures!!!


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## wa5cab

34_40,

The serial number is low enough that the machine originally had 4-step pulleys.  However, although the motor and both countershaft pulleys are the same as on the 6" lathe, the 4-step spindle pulley is probably going to be quite difficult to come by.  Unless you want to do an actual restoration or feel the need for more speed choices, it may be easier just to find the parts necessary to be able to run it as an 8-speed machine.  You already have the 2-step countershaft and spindle pulleys, presumable in good condition.  I didn't pay any attention to its condition but I probably have the 8-speed chart.  And I have the correct countershaft bracket.  That would leave the hanger and the 2-step motor and countershaft pulleys to find unless they already got changed, too.  And maybe the countershaft spindle, although the one that you have appears to work.  

But I guess that the first step should be to ID exactly what you already have.


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## 34_40

I'm thinking it'll stay just as it is.
If the parts fell in my lap, then the direction would change.  But it runs well enough as is an don't see me needing it to do more.


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## wa5cab

OK.


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## 34_40

As always - Thanks Robert.


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## Silverbullet

Great idea less trouble to make too. I'm going to make one for mine as a SAFTEY stop. I haven't even looked at mine since it came here. I do know one handle on the table is broken , think ill get round ones 5" should be ok . With my meat hooks even that's small. God I can't wait to get out there. My backs out so bad I'm going to a neurosurgeon on Jan 4th hope they can fix me or kill me. So tired of living but not being able to do anything without pain.


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## 34_40

Silverbullet,  First I am sorry to learn of your troubles.  I know that path having crawled along it a few years ago.  It took surgery to get me walking again!   I'll keep a good thought and say a prayer that things get better for you real quick.

Next, I am assuming that you're speaking about the round kick-out device I copied from Steve's mill.  Am I correct?


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## Silverbullet

34_40 said:


> Silverbullet,  First I am sorry to learn of your troubles.  I know that path having crawled along it a few years ago.  It took surgery to get me walking again!   I'll keep a good thought and say a prayer that things get better for you real quick.
> 
> Next, I am assuming that you're speaking about the round kick-out device I copied from Steve's mill.  Am I correct?


Yes that's the part , I'm pretty sure the original is on mine ,but I figure if I make one at the end of travel to make sure it cuts out , just to be safe rather then sorry. My luck some how it wouldn't knock off all the way . I've been disabled since 1979  but up till 2009 was pretty good but pain kept me from moving still walking then with canes. Till I got so bad I didn't then ended up almost dead from pulmonary embolism Which took most of what walking away so I've been living on fentanyl patches and perks still in pain and gradual increase till now it's not leaving even with muscle relaxers so many all I do is sleep. Can't keep going this way or all be dead . I'm a fighter I beat death four times in 09  from different things including a second blood clot. In the hospital the nurses called me the miracle man. After testing my heart they couldn't believe it was normal after only a few hours after the clot buster drug they gave me. All I new was finally I had no pain before the drug I was at Pease finally. Then I came too couldn't move much after that. Sorry about the long details only way I know to explain it all.


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## 34_40

No worries.  I'm hopeful you can get some relief and get back to playin' with the equipment soon.
For me, it was laying on the couch and went to get up to go to bed.  Only to discover that it created to much pain so I stayed there for 3 days. Had to call my chiro for an emergency visit, she got me into a surgeons office and we decided to do the disc operation and give the nerves some room.  I went in the operating room at 9 am and was walking by 2 pm! Been good for these last 8 years and I don't take my movements lightly.


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## 34_40

So with the holiday I had today off of work and made some time to be in the shop.
I had purchased a 1.250" arbor and some spacers but never even tried to mount it..  so I pulled it from the box only to discover..
it won't fit!    The end of the arbor won't slide into the bushing! 

A couple quick measures determines the new arbor is .625" OD and the old arbor is .619"
Oh well, setup the lathe with the arbor on centers and trim to fit,  then some polishing and all is good!

Setup the arbor with a cutter just to look at it!       it's been a good day after all!


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## wa5cab

34_40,

I'm sorry to be the one telling you this, but you now have two bad arbors.  You should have checked the dimensions on the factory drawings for the 7/8" and 1" arbors that are in Downloads.  The correct diameter for the bushing end of the arbor is 0.6250"/0.6245".  You should have run a 5/8" reamer through the support bushing.  

The 1-1/4" arbor is aftermarket as the factory never made that size.  But it appears that it was made correctly.


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## VSAncona

It may not match the original specs, but as long as you have a close fit between the bearing and the journal portion of the arbor, it should still work. How does it cut? Any chatter?


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## 34_40

I don't think it'll make any difference if these are "non-standard" as they'll probably always stay with the machine. 
I haven't experienced any chatter or ill effects either so I think it's all good.  I still need to spin out a 1" arbor also. it'll have the small, non-standard journal as well..  

Seems this one is a basketcase  anyway,  why shouldn't some of the tooling follow along!


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## VSAncona

It sounds like you're doing the best you can with what you have to work with. Part of the challenge of buying and rehabbing old machinery is figuring out what modifications and repairs were made by the previous owner.

Not to get sidetracked, but there's currently a one-owner Atlas milling machine for sale on ebay. It's one of the nicest, most-original looking examples I've seen. But it has a price tag to match.


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## 34_40

Yes, it's all we can do right?   I don't think the .009 will matter in the long run, not to me anyway! LOL  And the arbors can always be sleeved to restore the bearing surface to a "more proper" o.d. if needed.

I was watching that ebay auction.  That unit and a shaper were both about perfect.  I'll admit I'd be tickled to own 'em!  But that would be a dream.


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## bfd

I had an atlas mill and was able to make lots of cuts on it. made a vert. head  attachment for it by attaching a pulley to the horizontal spindle and use a v belt setup like a corvair cooling fan setup made a good small vert. machine bill


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## 34_40

Was yours a Marvin setup?


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## bfd

no mine was totally self designed and self built it used the existing  spindle for speeds and #2 mt collets with a 3/8" drawbar. wheel bearings for the spindle. worked well bill


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## 34_40

Sounds pretty cool. Wish you had a picture.
But it sounds like the Marvin style.


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## wa5cab

That is the way that the Marvin was powered (off of the mill's spindle with a V-belt).  However, the Marvin didn't have a 2MT taper in the spindle nose.  Joel at MyMachineShop.com has built some "Marvin replicas" except that they are available with 2MT, 3MT and if I recall correctly R8 spindles.  Otherwise they are very similar to the Marvins except that they don't come with a belt cover.  I bought one of the 2MT versions and find it quite well made.  Their only real drawback is that they do not have a quill.  But adding that would probably have pushed the cost over $1000 if it was doable at all.


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## Silverbullet

Wouldn't taking an old quill from a drill press work. Not super strong but may be doable.


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## 34_40

Silverbullet said:


> Wouldn't taking an old quill from a drill press work. Not super strong but may be doable.



It could work I suppose.  A Jacobs type chuck wouldn't be desirable I think..  but from what I see on this forum of guys using drill presses and X/Y tables to do milling.
It can work if you take very minor cuts and are patient.   I think it would be easier to raise the table into the cutter. But I've never tried it on an Atlas HM.


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## Silverbullet

You can get the quill with a 2 or 3 morse taper , I would think it could be cross drilled to pin the taper , and with er collets wouldn't that about do it up . Still would need light cuts but there not that strong anyway. If I ever come a cross one ill try it.


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## wa5cab

Most 2MT spindle drill presses have pretty light spindles.  Plus if you are building a vertical attachment to sell, you want to be sure of your parts supply.


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## 34_40

Sigh.. well.  I've gone and done it again.  I've broken another U-Joint to table drive.  I was using the whole length of the table and had successfully made the same travel 3 times but I guess I had made some manual turns enough to clear and start the auto feed without any troubles.  This one pass for whatever reason when I engaged the autodrive, it made perhaps a half rotation and bound up and cause the joint to fail.

I'm certainly glad the joint failed and not the gearbox but it was monotonous making the last couple cuts  completely by hand.  So my next project will be whipping up a couple joint halfs.


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