# Making Bushings...



## zboss86 (Nov 17, 2015)

Bare with me I'm green.  When I say green, I mean I just hooked up power to the lathe last weekend.  So I'm new everything when it comes to machining/turning

Made some bushings for some control arms on a differential I'm building.  I ended up just hitting the outside of the bushing with some sandpaper and a red scotch pad.  That put me where I needed to be.
I drilled out the center with a 3/8" drill bit and then followed up with a 1/2".
Would you normally drill this out in two steps or would you do it differently?

I wouldn't mind just barely cleaning the inside hole, adding just a touch of clearance wouldn't hurt either.
What would you guys use/do for this?   

I made the bushings out of 3/4" cold roll.
2.5" long
3/4" outside diameter
1/2" hole


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## Charles Spencer (Nov 17, 2015)

"I wouldn't mind just barely cleaning the inside hole, adding just a touch of clearance wouldn't hurt either.
What would you guys use/do for this?"

Well I'd guess that most people would use a reamer.


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## zboss86 (Nov 17, 2015)

Thx, I was thinking that but I've never used one...  I'll give that a go.


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## oldboy1950 (Nov 17, 2015)

if that is you fab work clamped to the table you wont have too much trouble figuring out lathe work.
good luck   Dan


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## bill stupak (Nov 17, 2015)

You could bore it out and get a nice smooth concentric hole.

Bill


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## zboss86 (Nov 17, 2015)

oldboy1950 said:


> if that is you fab work clamped to the table you wont have too much trouble figuring out lathe work.
> good luck   Dan



I can't claim the FAB9 housing, it's Mosier's piece of art.  I jut made and added the brackets/ control arms.



bill stupak said:


> You could bore it out and get a nice smooth concentric hole.
> 
> Bill


It's sad, but I even had to read up on boring just to make sure I knew what you were referring to.   That' d be an option too...


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## zboss86 (Nov 17, 2015)

I notice the drill on the tail stock wanted to turn in the chuck at times.  Normally happened when I was about 2" into the bushing.  Was this because I was trying to drill too fast or to big of a hole at once?  I kept the drill bit pretty sharp and dabbed oil on it every half inch or so...


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## joshua43214 (Nov 17, 2015)

zboss86 said:


> I notice the drill on the tail stock wanted to turn in the chuck at times.  Normally happened when I was about 2" into the bushing.  Was this because I was trying to drill too fast or to big of a hole at once?  I kept the drill bit pretty sharp and dabbed oil on it every half inch or so...




This either comes from not getting the chuck arbor fully seated, or it comes from a poorly fitted taper.

Clean the arbor and the bore really well. Use mineral spirits and a clean rag sine the lathe is new to you and you don't know if there is oil on the mating surfaces.
You want to slam the chuck back up into the tail stock. Try to do this with the chuck only about 1/2" or so from the bottom. It is easy to score the taper in the tail stock if you start from too far out and hit the wall as the arbor goes in.
hammering on the nose of the chuck is pretty much always bad practice, but I am sure you will not have to look far to find someone here who has done it. Best to use a mallet, and either tap the end of the drill, or retract the jaws and tap the face.
You should not be able to twist the chuck by hand, and it should stick then pop free when the tail stock is fully retracted.

Marks you would normally consider harmless can cause a taper to not seat. Inspect the arbor really closely for dings, any place you find a ding, there is a ridge around the ding. Clean up the arbor with a fine stone or very fine Swiss file any place you  find a scratch or ding.
Cover the arbor with transfer dye (you probably want some, it comes in handy for fab work), or permanent marker.
Push the arbor into the taper and rotate, then remove. The dye will rub off on the areas where contact is made.
Repairing the taper might be done with careful use of emery cloth on a stick, or might require reaming.
Tom Lipton (YouTube oxtoolco) did a video on it a while ago, he covers it really well, but I can't find the video link (sorry).


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## zmotorsports (Nov 17, 2015)

The drill chuck arbor for the tailstock should have a tang on the end that resides into a notch in the tailstock.  This prevents the chuck from turning until it gets seated.  For the most part the interference fit of the taper is what holds the chuck in the tailstock.  They try to turn because the drag of whatever you are turning is overcoming the friction in the taper.  Also check to ensure the taper itself is clean and there is no foreign debris inside.  This will greatly effect the taper fitment.


Mike.


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## zboss86 (Nov 17, 2015)

I worded that wrong...  The drill bit was turning in the chuck.  The chuck looks to be a pretty nice piece, unlike the lathe I noticed it's actually an USA made piece from Ohio.  I found a better fitting key and that helped a lot.  I may have been feeding too fast.  Just checking to make sure there isn't anything else I could be overlooking.

However, I'm glad you told me about the part of the chuck turning with in the tail stock b/c that did happen some.  That's some good info that I'd never would have thought of.  Tapered arbors are new to me...  I'll definitely look into that.


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## David S (Nov 17, 2015)

I think we need some clarification.  The OP says " the drill on the tail stock wanted to turn in the chuck at times".  So by "turn in the chuck" is he talking about the bit slipping in the chuck jaws?

David


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## zmotorsports (Nov 17, 2015)

David S said:


> I think we need some clarification.  The OP says " the drill on the tail stock wanted to turn in the chuck at times".  So by "turn in the chuck" is he talking about the bit slipping in the chuck jaws?
> 
> David



Good point.  I completely missed that part.  Some clarification would be helpful.

Mike.


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## joshua43214 (Nov 17, 2015)

Use the key in all three holes.


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## zboss86 (Nov 17, 2015)

Yeah, my terminology is off.  I think one thing and say another.   I was originally referring to the drill bit turning in the chuck jaws.  The information on the tapered arbor was very helpful also, b/c that also happened some.


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## chips&more (Nov 17, 2015)

zboss86 said:


> I worded that wrong...  The drill bit was turning in the chuck.  The chuck looks to be a pretty nice piece, unlike the lathe I noticed it's actually an USA made piece from Ohio.  I found a better fitting key and that helped a lot.  I may have been feeding too fast.  Just checking to make sure there isn't anything else I could be overlooking.
> 
> However, I'm glad you told me about the part of the chuck turning with in the tail stock b/c that did happen some.  That's some good info that I'd never would have thought of.  Tapered arbors are new to me...  I'll definitely look into that.


It could be that the chips are building up inside the hole and are causing friction which in turn spins the drill bit in the chuck jaws. When drilling a shallow hole this is not a problem because the chips just fall out. But, when drilling a deep hole you must “woodpecker” the drill bit to clear the chips…Good Luck, Dave.


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## zboss86 (Nov 17, 2015)

chips&more said:


> It could be that the chips are building up inside the hole and are causing friction which in turn spins the drill bit in the chuck jaws. When drilling a shallow hole this is not a problem because the chips just fall out. But, when drilling a deep hole you must “woodpecker” the drill bit to clear the chips…Good Luck, Dave.



bingo, exactly what I noticed...


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## zboss86 (Nov 17, 2015)

joshua43214 said:


> Use the key in all three holes.


Yeah, I do this on the drill press.  Guess I need to do the same on the lathe.  Didn't know that was common for all people, or just something I did.


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## TommyD (Nov 17, 2015)

Hole size dia. accuracy depends on how the drill was sharpened, both flutes on the same angle and the same width.
Personally I like drilling my hole 1/32 or so undersize and then finish up with my "to size" drill after the piece cools down a bit. Pecking is good to keep chips from building up in the gullets, especially with deep holes, and messing up hole dia. and finish and spinning the bit in the chuck. Check the drill shank for bugs and grind off and use plenty of oil when drilling. Oil helps with cutting and lubing the bit up for chip flow out.


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## chips&more (Nov 17, 2015)

I have taken apart a drill chuck more than once. And have studied its operandi. IMHO tightening all three positions will do little or nothing to improve the chuck jaws grip. This is however, only if the chuck is of good quality and working properly. On a side note, if you are tightening a 3 jaw lathe chuck and it has more than one wrench hole. Improvements in concentricity could be noticed if you repeatedly use the same chuck key hole and no other…Good Luck


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## joshua43214 (Nov 17, 2015)

chips&more said:


> I have taken apart a drill chuck more than once. And have studied its operandi. IMHO tightening all three positions will do little or nothing to improve the chuck jaws grip. This is however, only if the chuck is of good quality and working properly. On a side note, if you are tightening a 3 jaw lathe chuck and it has more than one wrench hole. Improvements in concentricity could be noticed if you repeatedly use the same chuck key hole and no other…Good Luck


I have a Rohm 1/2" and a larger Jacobs drill chuck.
Both grip much tighter when I use the key in all three positions. The Rohm in particular has bad habit of spinning the bit on break through, it also does not grip taps very well unless I tighten all three holes - which makes for a nice safety feature with smaller taps. The Albrecht keyless I use on the lathe actually seems to grip better than the keyed Rohm. Maybe I got a defective unit, Rohm is supposed to be good.
I also always tighten all three holes on a 3jaw chuck. I have "decent" quality Chinese chucks, I would never trust the scroll to not wind up when chucking work.


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## TommyD (Nov 17, 2015)

We exclusively used 3 jaw chucks with soft jaws which we bored out to the dia of the pieces we were making. I apprenticed in a shop that made bearing seals and some of the molds had 144 cavities and we always made spares. We ALWAYS used the same chuck key hole, the one that was directly above the mfg badge, as well as coloring up the slug between the two jaws, we needed to do this to provide consistency from part to part.


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## zboss86 (Nov 17, 2015)

TommyD said:


> We exclusively used 3 jaw chucks with soft jaws which we bored out to the dia of the pieces we were making. I apprenticed in a shop that made bearing seals and some of the molds had 144 cavities and we always made spares. We ALWAYS used the same chuck key hole, the one that was directly above the mfg badge, as well as coloring up the slug between the two jaws, we needed to do this to provide consistency from part to part.



wow, that sounds like it's above my pay grade...  lol, it is neat to hear what extremes some do provide the consistency and accuracy they need.


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## maker of things (Nov 17, 2015)

zboss86 said:


> It's sad, but I even had to read up on boring just to make sure I knew what you were referring to.   That' d be an option too...



I don't see anything wrong with having to look up terms and processes.   You have had your machine up and running less than 1 week and already knocked out at least 2 projects, that's nothing to sneeze at!

Boring vs reaming; if you will be doing a limited number of hole sizes, chucking reamers would make quick work of giving you that slight over size hole, but you have to buy a reamer for each size.
  Boring will allow you to make the hole any size you want and when done the hole will almost always be more concentric. Don't think that is critical for this application, but you do have tooling already


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## chips&more (Nov 17, 2015)

joshua43214 said:


> I have a Rohm 1/2" and a larger Jacobs drill chuck.
> Both grip much tighter when I use the key in all three positions. The Rohm in particular has bad habit of spinning the bit on break through, it also does not grip taps very well unless I tighten all three holes - which makes for a nice safety feature with smaller taps. The Albrecht keyless I use on the lathe actually seems to grip better than the keyed Rohm. Maybe I got a defective unit, Rohm is supposed to be good.
> I also always tighten all three holes on a 3jaw chuck. I have "decent" quality Chinese chucks, I would never trust the scroll to not wind up when chucking work.


All my chucks are Jacobs. And I guess are the USA made ones because I have had them for decades. No problems at all with them. They will probably outlive me! I also have many Albrecht keyless chucks that have found their way into my shop. Liked them at first, now they all collect dust. One of them tightened up so tight on a drill bit I had a heck of a time undoing it! AND I like to feel how tight I’m doing things. I can feel the tightness with a chuck that has a key. I cannot feel the tightness with the keyless.


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## zboss86 (Nov 17, 2015)

maker of things said:


> I don't see anything wrong with having to look up terms and processes.   You have had your machine up and running less than 1 week and already knocked out at least 2 projects, that's nothing to sneeze at!
> 
> Boring vs reaming; if you will be doing a limited number of hole sizes, chucking reamers would make quick work of giving you that slight over size hole, but you have to buy a reamer for each size.
> Boring will allow you to make the hole any size you want and when done the hole will almost always be more concentric. Don't think that is critical for this application, but you do have tooling already



Good point, I think I also have some reamers... I just need to see what sizes I have.

Next question...
When turning down the outsize diameter...  Example ~.75" diameter- cold rolled steel. 
I haven't been able to get the surface as smooth as I'd like.  It's still somewhat coarse...  I was fortunate that these bushings didn't really need to be turned on the out side, I just hit them with 80 grit sand paper and a scotch brite at a high rpm.  Is there a particular bit I need or a certain rpm I need to be running?  I tried running a small cut but, it was still leaving a rough surface.  I've ran different bits at different angles, but they all leave the same texture.   I'll grab some pics of what I'm talking about tonight.


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## TommyD (Nov 17, 2015)

Is your toolbit on center?
Smooth radius on the tip of your tool bit?

Either could be the problem. To tell if your bit is on center, face a piece fron the od to id, being careful as you get towards the center. You can be low on center, not ideal but ok, on center which is ideal or above center, which you do not want. Above center results in chipped out bits since the tit rubs on the relief flank of the bit, chipping it out. This is important for facing as well as turning.

I don't use hss bits, never really did, I'm spoiled using carbide.


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## TommyD (Nov 17, 2015)

It also could be feed speed, too fast for rpm of piece. Hard to tell without seeing it.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Nov 17, 2015)

zboss86 said:


> Next question...
> When turning down the outsize diameter...  Example ~.75" diameter- cold rolled steel.
> I haven't been able to get the surface as smooth as I'd like.  It's still somewhat coarse...  I was fortunate that these bushings didn't really need to be turned on the out side, I just hit them with 80 grit sand paper and a scotch brite at a high rpm.  Is there a particular bit I need or a certain rpm I need to be running?  I tried running a small cut but, it was still leaving a rough surface.  I've ran different bits at different angles, but they all leave the same texture.   I'll grab some pics of what I'm talking about tonight.


Spindle speed and feed rate, I would turn 3/4" diameter CRS at no less then 2500 RPM's  at .006 IPR feed in order to get a decent finish with carbide, maybe 1/2 the spindle with HSS tooling.


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## Silverbullet (Nov 18, 2015)

joshua43214 said:


> I have a Rohm 1/2" and a larger Jacobs drill chuck.
> Both grip much tighter when I use the key in all three positions. The Rohm in particular has bad habit of spinning the bit on break through, it also does not grip taps very well unless I tighten all three holes - which makes for a nice safety feature with smaller taps. The Albrecht keyless I use on the lathe actually seems to grip better than the keyed Rohm. Maybe I got a defective unit, Rohm is supposed to be good.
> I also always tighten all three holes on a 3jaw chuck. I have "decent" quality Chinese chucks, I would never trust the scroll to not wind up when chucking work.


The only way that should make the chuck hold tighter is if the jaw scrolls are worn or loose. I've used many chucks and it's usually the worn out or abused ones that act like that. I prefer a keyed chuck to a hand tite unless it's an albrectt chuck those buggers self tighten .


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## P T Schram (Nov 18, 2015)

To reply to the primary question, I recently finished 26 misalignment bushings for a four link

I start with 1/8",then, 1/4 or 3/8, then 1/2, then either 5/8 or 3/4, but mine are made of tool steel versus CRS.

This operation convinced me of the need for a tail-stock turret 

The spacers for my three link will be easier 

If you don't have one get a copy of "How to Run a Lathe"


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## zboss86 (Nov 18, 2015)

yeah, I bet that was time consuming to do 26 out of tool steel... 
I had no clue what you were talking about on the tail-stock turret, so I looked it up.  Yeah, that'd be awesome!  Especially for making these...  I spent half my time changing out bits.

Is this the book you were referring to?
http://www.amazon.com/How-To-Run-Lathe-Beginner/dp/1603864679

It'd definitely be better than piecing together a bunch of you tube videos, lol.


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## British Steel (Nov 18, 2015)

chips&more said:


> I have taken apart a drill chuck more than once. And have studied its operandi. IMHO tightening all three positions will do little or nothing to improve the chuck jaws grip. This is however, only if the chuck is of good quality and working properly. On a side note, if you are tightening a 3 jaw lathe chuck and it has more than one wrench hole. Improvements in concentricity could be noticed if you repeatedly use the same chuck key hole and no other…Good Luck



Most chuck manufacturers will put some kind of marking (may only be a centrepunch dot) to indicate the "master" hole used for tightening when the chuck's manufactured and the jaws ground, WHEN NEW that one gives the best accuracy...

Dave H. (the other one)


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## Charles Spencer (Nov 18, 2015)

zboss86 said:


> Is this the book you were referring to?
> http://www.amazon.com/How-To-Run-Lathe-Beginner/dp/1603864679



I bought that.  It is the older and shorter version of the book.  The later version is almost twice as long.  You can find both here for free:

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=1617&tab=3


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## P T Schram (Nov 19, 2015)

zboss86 said:


> yeah, I bet that was time consuming to do 26 out of tool steel...
> I had no clue what you were talking about on the tail-stock turret, so I looked it up.  Yeah, that'd be awesome!  Especially for making these...  I spent half my time changing out bits.
> 
> Is this the book you were referring to?
> ...



The book you want is "How to run a Lathe" by South Bend Lathe. STILL the definitive manual for learning how to urn one.

I had plenty of chucks. I was swapping chucks until I realized I'd finally gotten to the point where I realized that, yes, I do need more production-oriented machinery. For the better part of 30 years I'd told myself I only make one or two widgets, why go CNC or even semi-automated. Well, I have come to that point in my life, skill level and career that I now need that type of machinery.

No sooner did I receive my tailstock turret than I walked into a customer's shop to see a Browne & Sharpe turret lather they had just gotten! When told of their intentions for the machine, I failed at my attempts to not embarrass or insult the owner by telling him he'd bought the wrong machine and sold the best one for what he was doing. I think I rescued myself by teaching him how to run it as he had no clue as to how to run a turret lathe. I'm sure it will eventually end up in my shop.


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## zetec7 (Nov 20, 2015)

I'm a relative newb, too (only had my lathe for about 5 years), and I had to make a precision bushing for the first time just a week ago.  It was for supporting a pulley with an oversize hole on an alternator with an undersized shaft.  Considering that the alternator will be spinning at up to 15,000 RPM, I figured that the whole thing needed to be pretty precise if the pulley was to turn true.  I cheated, a little - I started off with a nice piece of DOM tubing, although it was well undersized inside inside & oversize outside, but at least it already had a hole...

In the past, I've generally just used drill bits, chucked in a Jacobs chuck.  This time, however, I decided to use the "El Cheapo" brand boring tool set that I bought cheap (under $40 for the 12 piece set), years ago.  As it happens, the boring tool holder that came with my "El Cheapo" QCTP set wouldn't hold any of the boring tools (hole in the tool holder was waaay too big), I rigged it up in one of the regular (rectangular) tool holders, using a shim to hold it more or less centered in the holder, and cinched it down.  I used some spray-can cutting oil, and went to town on it.  Surprisingly (to me, anyway), it went perfectly.  I went slowly as I got close to final measurement, finishing off the inside with a piece of 600-grit paper wrapped around a small drill bit.  When I was done, it measured out to within .0005", both inside and outside, and was a perfect fit.  Interestingly, as the alternator itself needed work (new diodes) I took it to a rebuilding shop, with the new bushing & pulley installed.  The tech who looked at it initially was so impressed with the bushing, he called in the rest of the staff to see it!  I didn't think it was anything to get excited about, but they sure thought it was cool.  It IS nice to be appreciated!

My point is that even a set of cheap boring tools (they look like the ones in Makerofthings' post, above, 2nd photo) can be very useful.  I do have an odd selection of reamers as well (sourced off Ebay, no rhyme or reason to the sizes), and use them often, but with my latest experience with the boring tools, I'm going to be using them a LOT more often from now on.


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