# Buy a small lathe while I wait for the PM lathe to arrive??



## wachuko (Sep 13, 2021)

I have the opportunity to buy a Central Machinery 9"x20" geared head belt driven, bench lathe.  Previous owner did not use it much before he passed away.

Would I be  wasting my money or should I go for it?

If I should go for it, is 500.00 for it a fair price?  Everything is there... including all the accessories that came with it still wrapped in that highly desirable oiled plastic bag (jk)...














The PM will not be here until the end of this year or early next year... I keep looking around for something inexpensive that I can play with while I wait... what do you guys think?


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## macardoso (Sep 13, 2021)

If you got the funds and space for two lathes, I don't see why not? It could be a nice second op machine down the road, converted to some special purpose (CNC, toolpost grinding, etc.), or gifted to a friend/school as a welcome to the hobby (as I am doing with my first mill right now).


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## macardoso (Sep 13, 2021)

Central Machinery is Harbor Freight FYI. Will likely have some issues. Either enjoy it as-is or learn about the value you got out of the PM lathe when it arrives.


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## Steve-F (Sep 13, 2021)

What Macardoso said  That's a good price also:<)


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## wachuko (Sep 13, 2021)

Okay.  Thank you for the validation.  Will stop by this week to pick it up.  Not sure how sturdy that bench is, but it is included as well...


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## wachuko (Sep 13, 2021)

At least it will be better than the other one I was looking at... in terms of not acquiring just another project (which I tend to do often...)...




That one might be better... but I am not looking for another project... I want something that I can play with now while I wait for my PM... I want to practice some of the stuff that I am reading about here, in the books I got, and the videos I have been watching...

Of course I have not told any of this to the wife... she will be so happy to see me get home with another pile of junk (her words every time I bring something...)


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## Shotgun (Sep 13, 2021)

The bench and accessories are probably worth $500.  By the end of the year, you'll have most of your big pieces of metal turned into small pieces of metal.


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## WobblyHand (Sep 13, 2021)

wachuko said:


> Okay.  Thank you for the validation.  Will stop by this week to pick it up.  Not sure how sturdy that bench is, but it is included as well...
> 
> View attachment 378284


That's pretty darn good for the price.  You are ahead of the game on this one.


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## C-Bag (Sep 13, 2021)

That’s exactly my setup, exact same bench. For the whole thing and little used that is a good deal. If I did get another lathe I’d not get rid of mine. Nothing fixes another lathe like a lathe.


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## wachuko (Sep 13, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> That’s exactly my setup, exact same bench. For the whole thing and little used that is a good deal. If I did get another lathe I’d not get rid of mine. Nothing fixes another lathe like a lathe.



C-Bag, do you know how much it weights?   I will be unbolting it from the bench, so it is easier to load in the back of my truck... Wondering how much help I need to take with me, lol.


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## C-Bag (Sep 13, 2021)

It’s 300#. When I picked it up the two us slid it into the back of my PU. Its kinda heavy if you are doing some lifting. I got it out of my truck and onto the bench with my trusty HF engine hoist by myself. Whatever you do be careful how you rig it as you don’t want to bend the lead screw.


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## C-Bag (Sep 13, 2021)

Oh, and remember the head end is heavier than the tail. Sorry if you already know this. Two guys on the head end and one of the tail if they are healthy. YMMV.


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## wachuko (Sep 13, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> It’s 300#. When I picked it up the two us slid it into the back of my PU. Its kinda heavy if you are doing some lifting. I got it out of my truck and onto the bench with my trusty HF engine hoist by myself. Whatever you do be careful how you rig it as you don’t want to bend the lead screw.



Okay... yeah, taking my son with me then... I would go get it today but it is my son's 19th birthday.  Wife would kill me if I tell her that I am going out and will be back in a couple of hours with him... 

I see some wheel carts in the photo... I should be able to roll it to the truck with bench and all... and hopefully slide the lathe it into the bed.

Now, I need to quickly make space in the garage for it... lol... no sense in taking this one to Ocala.  I want it were I spend most of my time now... The PM will be delivered to the new house in Ocala... I do not want to deal with moving that one in 4 years...


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## wachuko (Sep 13, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> Oh, and remember the head end is heavier than the tail. Sorry if you already know this. Two guys on the head end and one of the tail if they are healthy. YMMV.



I will make sure to take some Advil... It will be just me and my son doing the lifting... my father-in-law is coming with us but he is in no shape to be carrying anything... as much as he would like to do so.  He already took his leather belt out...


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## wachuko (Sep 13, 2021)

Just in case anyone is interested in that Logan lathe... I found it for sale in Punta Gorda, FL for 600.00

In case you have access to FB: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1395854147448487/


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## C-Bag (Sep 13, 2021)

wachuko said:


> Just in case anyone is interested in that Logan lathe... I found it for sale in Punta Gorda, FL for 600.00
> 
> In case you have access to FB: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1395854147448487/


That’s about $500 too much IMHO. I stay away from basket cases as I learned my lesson over 50yrs ago. Some people like me see them as basket cases/headaches, others see it as “disassembled for your convenience”. If I’d seen it or used before it was blown up, maybe. Like that, and no prior history, no thanks.


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## Aaron_W (Sep 14, 2021)

Do it!  

The 9x20s are a decent inexpensive lathe. They are based on the Austrian Emco Compact 8 and a big step above the 7x12-16 or 8x16 lathes.
They often show up asking $800-1200 so at $500 you should have no problem getting your money back if you decide to get rid of it once the big lathe arrives. It can be also be handy at times to have a second lathe available if you have the space for it.

I picked up an older Enco 9x20 a couple years ago because it was only 30 minutes away, cheap and in like new condition.

They weigh about 250lbs. When I bought it the seller and I were easily able to take it off the stand and put it into the back of my truck.


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## chatter chatter cut cut (Sep 14, 2021)

leap on that . iv spent $500 on a no brand mini 7x14 + probably at least $200 on repair[mismatched gears] and other stuff.


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> That’s about $500 too much IMHO. I stay away from basket cases as I learned my lesson over 50yrs ago. Some people like me see them as basket cases/headaches, others see it as “disassembled for your convenience”. If I’d seen it or used before it was blown up, maybe. Like that, and no prior history, no thanks.



Yeah... I really did not wanted another project sitting in my garage...  But seeing so many threads here of folks restoring these old lathes, figured I would share in case someone else was interested...


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## Janderso (Sep 14, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> I picked up an older Enco 9x20 a couple years ago


Aaron, what's the story on the older Enco lathes? 
Were they made in Germany?


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## C-Bag (Sep 14, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Aaron, what's the story on the older Enco lathes?
> Were they made in Germany?


Emco was made by the Swiss, Enco was Taiwan.


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

If all goes well, heading out around noon to get it...   I posted in the What Did You Buy Today? thread, but the seller has some additional tools and metal stock available as well... will see if I can get a few more things to follow me home...


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## WobblyHand (Sep 14, 2021)

wachuko said:


> If all goes well, heading out around noon to get it...   I posted in the What Did You Buy Today? thread, but the seller has some additional tools and metal stock available as well... will see if I can get a few more things to follow me home...
> 
> View attachment 378362


Quite the haul.  Check inside the red cabinets.  Could be something interesting there.


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

WobblyHand said:


> Quite the haul.  Check inside the red cabinets.  Could be something interesting there.



Only if I had an idea of what I am looking at... I know what some stuff is... other stuff? Clueless...  I can identify height gauge, dividers, magnetic bases, arbor press, grinders, thread dies, cutters, allen wrenches, two lamps, and a lot of raw material... 

And then there are many pointy thingys and whatchamacallits.   

Yeah,  I am curious as to what is inside the red cabinets.  Will take photos...


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## C-Bag (Sep 14, 2021)

wachuko said:


> Only if I had an idea of what I am looking at... I know what some stuff is... other stuff? Clueless...  I can identify height gauge, dividers, magnetic bases, arbor press, grinders, thread dies, cutters, allen wrenches, two lamps, and a lot of raw material...
> 
> And then there are many pointy thingys and whatchamacallits.
> 
> Yeah,  I am curious as to what is inside the red cabinets.  Will take photos...


With pics the old hands here can identify almost anything. I've seen few things that have stumped them.

Good threading dies, a big arbor press and a look at the raw material is where I would be concentrating because I have years of collecting. It's hard to know what you'll need without experience. Most of my metrology tools are previously owned. Having a way to test them with gauges before you buy is key.


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

Hopefully you can see the images I uploaded...


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## WobblyHand (Sep 14, 2021)

wachuko said:


> Hopefully you can see the images I uploaded...


Actually, on my computer they are not rendering.  Have part of the tool boxes and nothing else.  Chromium and Firefox, both do the same thing.


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## C-Bag (Sep 14, 2021)

WobblyHand said:


> Actually, on my computer they are not rendering.  Have part of the tool boxes and nothing else.  Chromium and Firefox, both do the same thing.


yup, same on mine.


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

WobblyHand said:


> Actually, on my computer they are not rendering.  Have part of the tool boxes and nothing else.  Chromium and Firefox, both do the same thing.



I reloaded the photos... let me know if you can see them now.


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## WobblyHand (Sep 14, 2021)

wachuko said:


> I reloaded the photos... let me know if you can see them now.


See them now!


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## WobblyHand (Sep 14, 2021)

Don't know for sure, but I think you are going to be on your way to earning a  award 
Hope it goes well!


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

Sure hope so… just need to figure out what is worth buying.  As mentioned, without the experience it is difficult to choose


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## Firstram (Sep 14, 2021)

You guys are slipping, make a lowball cash offer for all of it! You can learn what everything is later and sell what you don't want.


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## WobblyHand (Sep 14, 2021)

We know that!  But it all depends on how much room you have at the homestead.  You noticed we haven't heard anything yet?  He's busy, busy hauling stuff.  Don't worry, there will be a good haul.


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

Just got home... It was very difficult because I did not wanted to take advantage of this lady.  She is very nice... So I showed her what some of the stuff is actually valued and I turned down accepting some of the tools for the price she was offering them... I just did not feel right taking advantage of her.  Mitutoyo calipers, Starrett tools... some stuff I would love to buy but not now... I can get buy with the cheap stuff that I have for now... 

For example... had to show her what this one cost new... 137.00. So that she knew the value of some of this stuff...




I did grab a few things and I think that I paid a fair value for them.  I sleep better at night doing this.  Photos:

Lathe and its parts/accessories









Kennedy toolbox






This was in one of the drawers in the Kennedy toolbox


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

More...

Got all the taps and dies she had there...






This little guy looks so frigging cool... 








I did not have dividers... so grabbed those as well...




Doubt I will need this... but wanted a Starrett tool... hehehe


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## WobblyHand (Sep 14, 2021)

Thanks for being a good person.  It makes me feel good there are still honest souls that won't take advantage of people.  Glad to have met your acquaintance.

Did you pick up any stock?  Seemed to be a lot there.  You WILL need that.


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## WobblyHand (Sep 14, 2021)

Ooh, you posted at the same time.  Good haul!  You did well.


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

WobblyHand said:


> Thanks for being a good person.  It makes me feel good there are still honest souls that won't take advantage of people.  Glad to have met your acquaintance.
> 
> Did you pick up any stock?  Seemed to be a lot there.  You WILL need that.



Thank you for the kind words.  I did grab some scrap material to start playing... I told her that I would find out what a fair price was for all the drill bits and end mills that she had and will make her and offer for all of those...  All these are made in the USA and look to be of high quality... When I go back, I will buy more stock as well...  I just did not know what to bring with me...







and the arbor press...




and a few more photos I forgot to upload...




I do not know what those weird looking tools are.  The ones on the upper right... Thing 1 and Thing 2...


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## WobblyHand (Sep 14, 2021)

As for the stock, take as much as you have room for in your place.  If the rack is for sale (or comes with it) grab that.  It seemed pretty sturdy.  It will save you from having to build one right away.  Developing a good stash of material now will make a things a lot easier later.  Make the seller a decent offer and clean it out.  You will be doing her a favor and setting yourself up well.


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

WobblyHand said:


> As for the stock, take as much as you have room for in your place.  If the rack is for sale (or comes with it) grab that.  It seemed pretty sturdy.  It will save you from having to build one right away.  Developing a good stash of material now will make a things a lot easier later.  Make the seller a decent offer and clean it out.  You will be doing her a favor and setting yourself up well.



Wish I could do that... I do not have the space at this time... And it also looks like she has an offer like that for all the stock.  I will just grab a couple of pieces when I am there tomorrow.  But it will be some of the short pieces... 

I did tell her that if the offer she got is only for the material, that I would buy that rack... I agree, having that would be great.

I really need to learn first... it will take me sometime to feel comfortable with the late.  And I have stocked some small pieces of different materials to play with.

I did take, if you look at the photos, some material that it is enough to make that grinder rest (simple design) that I saw on the other threads...


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

These are the end mills, center drill countersink and drill bits that I asked her to sell all of them to me... I will need to see what would be a fair offer for all of this...


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## WobblyHand (Sep 14, 2021)

While you are the good guy, casually ask what the stock was going for.  Just because you were a good person, doesn't mean the offer isn't a low ball.  Maybe you can get some nice round stock.  And snag some little stuff - it all adds up.  But, hey, there's only so much stuff that one can cram in one's dwelling (and remain married).   

I don't know prices on used tooling.  I did pay recently $3/drill for some MT2 drills, but they were from 1/2" to 3/4" and quite long.  I did buy 11 of them.  Hope some others can give you a better idea.  There's a lot pictured.   To buy it new, would cost a bunch.  But it isn't new, and they are rolling around in boxes.   Few hundred?  250?  Anyone else know?  FMV, not steal from the poor value.


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

And guess which part I will be making first ...  Just broke in my hand... I swear officer, it was broken...

Who am I kidding... ordering the replacement part from Grizzly... lol


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

WobblyHand said:


> While you are the good guy, casually ask what the stock was going for.  Just because you were a good person, doesn't mean the offer isn't a low ball.  Maybe you can get some nice round stock.  And snag some little stuff - it all adds up.  But, hey, there's only so much stuff that one can cram in one's dwelling (and remain married).
> 
> I don't know prices on used tooling.  I did pay recently $3/drill for some MT2 drills, but they were from 1/2" to 3/4" and quite long.  I did buy 11 of them.  Hope some others can give you a better idea.  There's a lot pictured.   To buy it new, would cost a bunch.  But it isn't new, and they are rolling around in boxes.   Few hundred?  250?  Anyone else know?  FMV, not steal from the poor value.


That is what I was thinking... around 250-300 for the lot of drill bits, end mills, center drill bits... All of those are USA made, nothing on those bins are from elsewhere...


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## Firstram (Sep 14, 2021)

You definitely did the right thing, good for you! I just hope I have the chance to sell my stuff before I go, for my wife's sake.


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## WobblyHand (Sep 14, 2021)

wachuko said:


> And guess which part I will be making first ...  Just broke in my hand... I swear officer, it was broken...
> 
> Who am I kidding... ordering the replacement part from Grizzly... lol
> 
> ...


You really ought to make that in something sturdier than pot metal.


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## Steve-F (Sep 14, 2021)

You did well Grasshopper  Sleep with a clear head tonight....nice job


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## Brento (Sep 14, 2021)

What type of arbor press did you get?


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

Brento said:


> What type of arbor press did you get?


No brand on it... which makes me think it is a 1 ton Harbor Freight arbor press... 






I showed her what a new one was (some 60.00)... and gave her 35.00 for it.  I was not looking for one, but it looked lonely in the corner... . Beside the lathe (Harbor Freight as well) and this arbor press, everything else seemed to be USA made tools...

She sold me the Kennedy toolbox for 50.00.  I told her that those were in good demand and that she could get more for it... but this was one item where she insisted that I take it.  I do not have a machinist toolbox so I was very exited to have one... will clean it well and leave it as is... No plans to paint it and ruin the looks...


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## matthewsx (Sep 14, 2021)

Often when people are letting go of their departed loved ones belongings it can be more about putting them into good hands than maximizing the amount of money received.

If she wants to give you deals on this stuff just explain you are part of a group that her late husband would have enjoyed and they you will sell what you don't use for a good price to fellow hobbyists.

What is likely to happen if you don't make a deal is someone will come and but that stuff cheap and sell it on eBay. If you can arrange something with her (even offering to give her a percentage of proceeds) it may work out well for both of you and your fellow hobbyists as well.

John


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> Often when people are letting go of their departed loved ones belongings it can be more about putting them into good hands than maximizing the amount of money received.
> 
> If she wants to give you deals on this stuff just explain you are part of a group that her late husband would have enjoyed and they you will sell what you don't use for a good price to fellow hobbyists.
> 
> ...



I did not think about that... She did mentioned that she was happy that it was going to someone that would use it and have fun with it... I really wanted to make sure she knew what she had and was not being taken advantage of... but thinking back on your comment, I sure hope I did not hurt her feelings... 

She did mentioned that some of the tools were passed down from older machinist where her husband worked.  The toolbox being one of those...


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## wachuko (Sep 14, 2021)

One last post and I will start an ownership thread in the ASIAN LATHES & MILLS section...

This was also included with the lathe... not sure what it is for.









I went ahead and bolted it back to the bench.  I still need to add some additional support in the back of the bench (triangulated supports) to make the bench more sturdy.




That is all for now... I cleaned it all, oiled it.. everything seems to be working smooth and tight... and stored all the tools in the drawers...


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## Aaron_W (Sep 15, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Aaron, what's the story on the older Enco lathes?
> Were they made in Germany?



The Emco (M not N) were Austrian, the Enco brand (N not M) machines can be made in Taiwan or China depending on model and time period of manufacture. Enco is now a house brand of MSC. 
My Enco 9x20 is from 1994 and was made in China but supposedly older ones were made in Taiwan. Jet has also sold a version of this lathe which was also made in Taiwan. 

From what I've read copies of the Emco Compact 8 were being made in Taiwan, and China by the 1980s. These eventually evolved into the now common 9x20 lathes sold under a variety of brands, Grizzly, Harbor Freight, Enco, Jet etc. The 9x20 is actually an improved design over the Compact 8, but being Austrian the Compact 8 was most likely built to a much higher standard of finish.   



wachuko said:


> And guess which part I will be making first ...  Just broke in my hand... I swear officer, it was broken...
> 
> Who am I kidding... ordering the replacement part from Grizzly... lol
> 
> ...



Looks like you got a nice haul, you may have gotten an even better deal than I did. I got mine for $300, but it was missing most of the change gears, the steady rest and follow rest.

I've bought some parts for my Enco from Grizzly. Almost all have been a direct replacement, but I've had a couple that didn't work out. I think in these cases it is due more to my lathe being 27 years old and there having been some product updates over nearly 3 decades rather than the brand making a difference. Grizzly's parts service is easy and generally fast, I've had no trouble other than the odd part not being a direct replacement. The G4000 parts breakdown is pretty detailed so if you look at your part and compare to their diagram you should be able to tell if a part will be an issue. The bits I've gotten that didn't work out were cheap, and probably would have been identified as different if I bothered to compare my part to the diagram before ordering.


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## wachuko (Sep 15, 2021)

Lathe came with its manual and also a printout of the Grizzly G4000 manual.

I found the part in Grizzly for the half-nut lever. 

Grizzly P4000711 - HALF-NUT LEVER V1

I just can't figure out how the heck it comes out... I have been searching the forum for instructions.  A lot of information on replacement of the half nuts, but none of the threads, so far, talk about removal of this type of lever...




Edit:  Never mind... I see it now.  There is a cir-clip holding the lever in place.  All this has to come apart to get to it... Lever is diagram number 711 and the cir-clip is diagram number 744


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## hman (Sep 15, 2021)

Back a few posts ago, you were asking about "thing 1"and "thing2." These are lathe dogs.  They're used when turning between centers.  A backplate (or drive plate) is mounted on the spindle nose threads and the dog attached to the workplace with the screw.  The "tail" of the dog goes into one of the drive plate slots.


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## wachuko (Sep 15, 2021)

hman said:


> Back a few posts ago, you were asking about "thing 1"and "thing2." These are lathe dogs.  They're used when turning between centers.  A backplate (or drive plate) is mounted on the spindle nose threads and the dog attached to the workplace with the screw.  The "tail" of the dog goes into one of the drive plate slots.


Thank you.  Now I can search here and in YouTube for the correct terms and see how is done.


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