# Another New Lathe (that Turned Out To Be A Craftsman 12")



## Jman (Oct 24, 2016)

Thank you Robert, I sent a message since I am new to this site asking if you could send me the files to my E-Mail. I believe my machine is a little later a 1934 or 35 but at this point I am looking at everything from 1936 and back. From what I have learned so far it is the second 10" in their series with a back gear drive. and a lever actuated forward and reverse gears for the turn screw. I do want to learn from your site for now and maybe have something in the future to share with others.


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## wa5cab (Oct 25, 2016)

Jman,

I haven't received either a PM or a direct email from you.  Where did you send it?

The basic Atlas 10" models were the 10, the 10D and the 10F.  A, B and C were stripped down versions (major subassemblies like carriage assembly, lead screw and threading gears assembly, and back gear assembly) of the original 10.  10E was a stripped down version of the 10D.  After the 10F came out, they quit doing that with the 10" and sears quit doing it with the 12".  However, there were several incremental changes made in the early years that didn't result in a model number change.

I was going to post the earliest known 10" photo but that function seems to have disappeared.  I'll report it.





The UPLOAD FILES button is (still?) hidden from me but it works.  Probably something to do with the browser.  Note that this machine has the early fabricated change gear guard, "wall light switch" for motor ON/OFF attached to the change gear guard mounting plate, early tailstock without the white lead dropper, and early 9" type compound (Zamak slide, stud mounted swivel (Zamak??), knob instead of crank).  But it has the two individual gear guards.  And the only reported part and casting part numbers for those both begin with "10D-".  Will someone who has an early tailstock without the dropper please report the part number?  It should be visible in the casting behind the clamping nut.  Likewise the base part number, although it may be on the bottom of the base.  The known part numbers at present are 9-5, 9-5A and 10D-5 for the tailstock and 9-6, 9-6A and 10D-6 for the base.  There has to have been at least a 10-5 as all of the bases appear to have been 1" tall.


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## Jman (Oct 25, 2016)

Robert thank you for getting back to me, I sent the message to contact support, this project was started years ago, and even Tony in the UK didn't know what I had at the time, but from researching the last couple of months I see much has been uncovered about these older Metalcraft lathes  since that time. This is going to be very slow going for me for I have forgotten much of what I learned from when I first started. I am trying to push myself by exercising my mind to at least make the effort to see if I can uncover memories and remember what I once could recall with no problem and at the same time learn something that is new to me. I have very little problem running the machines I have by making jigs etc. probably a lot of that is good habits and years of repetition. Turning wrenches the physical application of what I learned since I was 12 doesn't seem to be be affected by the aging memory loss I am dealing with. It is the names of parts and where they go that is the problem. For anyone having a decline in age related memory, I have found by repeating the information over and over has helped me the most. I don't know if this content is appropriate for this forum but it is also a problem many of us who do what we do have or will have.


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## wa5cab (Oct 25, 2016)

OK.  I don't actually know where those messages go.


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## Jman (Oct 25, 2016)

Thanks Robert that was kind of you to say, because I didn't know where it was going either, but I thought it was better to start by doing something rather then just sit here and not at least try something. Now back to my lathe:
the bed has the casting No of 942
the tail stock has the casting No. L 3-5 on the underside also a stamped DRC with a 1" base thickness
the left belt cover has the casting No. 10-247
the right belt cove has the casting No. 10-246 
there are no serial No's on the front bed way at the tail stock end
the turn or lead-screw is 5\8" in diameter
it has a standard house housing switch plate and is marked with Metalcraft patented May 16 1933 No 1909522

The following is what I am having a difficult time getting information about and my memory is blank about how these gears changed the direction of the threading drive screw.

It is driven by a horizontal backgeard headstock with plain bearings
it has 2 gears in the forward most part of the left side gear housing that meshes with the headstock drive gear, it is   shifted by a lever that exits the housing above and to the left of the on\off switch housing which seems to change the direction of the turn\lead screw when shifted from upper to lower position. It is dismantled now and I will be able to share more info as I put it back together, as I do this I will also be learning the proper names of the individual components of the drive and the gear housing which I believe will help both of us. Thank you for helping me on this quest.


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## wa5cab (Oct 25, 2016)

Jman,

First, although some of the part numbers don't quite compute, your machine, or at least the headstock and tailstock, is an Atlas/Craftsman 12". not an Atlas 10".  Of the metal working screw cutting  lathes that Atlas built, all of the 9" and 10" had a lead screw reversing gearbox attached to the front of the bed right below the front of the headstock.  All of the 12" (and all of the 6") had a tumbler style FWD/OFF/REV selector mounted on the left end of the headstock toward the front.  When you move the lever up or down from center, one or the other of the small gears that also move are meshed with the 32T gear on the left end of the spindle.  In the center position, neither gear touches the 32T.  Plus part numbers beginning with L1, L2, L3, L4, L5 and L6 (more or less in order of age or vintage) are all for the 12" models.  Place a flat bar or straight edge (rule) across the ways right under the spindle.  Measure the vertical distance from the center of the spindle to the straight edge.  That measurement plus the thickness of the straight edge should be about 6-1/8".

I think, from what you have now written, that your machine is a 101.07380, made in late 1935 or early 1936.  For a photo of it, go to DOWNLOAD, click where it says "click here, scroll down slightly and click on the next "click here".  Then select Atlas.... and finally Atlas/Craftsman Catalogs.  Download the 1936 Craftsman Power Tools Catalog.  Look on page 28 (catalog page 26) for a photo and description.  Don't drool over the price too much.

Next, go to Atlas/Craftsman Lathes and then Manuals.  Download the parts list for the Craftsman 101.07382 Rev 2.  (EDIT - we do have 101.07381.  What we don't have is 101.07380).  We don't have a manual for the 07381 (should read 07380) but most parts are the same.  The main cosmetic differences are the change gear guard, motor switch, and compound assembly.  This is a "flat" parts list.  Also download the illustrated parts list for the 101.07383.  A lot of the part numbers are newer but most parts still look the same and are in the same place.


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## wa5cab (Oct 27, 2016)

You're welcome.


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## Jman (Oct 27, 2016)

Robert I did go out in the shop yesterday to check the lathes tailstock end of the front way but still after careful observation with a magnifying glass I did not see anything that could represent a serial no, except a very small L half the size of the L I just typed. 

I just posted a question to Howie on his New Craftsman Lathe thread about his lathe being the same or very similar to mine, and I posted a question to you about the possibility of moving the pertinent posts involving the tumbler direction selector and identifying the 12" lathe as I now know it is not a 9" or 10" which is what this thread is about and brought me here. I might never have figured out what I had if I hadn't stumbled in here.


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## wa5cab (Oct 27, 2016)

I moved all of the pertinent posts into a new thread.

I suppose that it's possible that Atlas didn't stamp serial numbers into the beds of the first few hundred Craftsman 12" that they made.  But if so, this would be I'm pretty certain the first example.  So far, insisting that there had to be a serial number stamped on the right end of the front way has always turned one up, sometimes on the third or fourth try.  The lowest 101.07380 lathe serial number so far is 810.  There is one with Serial Number 360 that has yet to be ID'd as to whether it is a 101.07360 or 101.07361.  But we also don't know for certain whether all Craftsman models have a serial number 1 or not.


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## Jman (Oct 28, 2016)




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## Jman (Oct 28, 2016)

This was the closest image I have found to the lathe I am working on. It was taken from Tony's UK site page 2 of the early 9 and 12" lathes, there is more info about this lathe below the picture but I didn't know how to separate it from from the rest of the text on the page.

Edit by MOD - this is the "official" photo of the 101.07380.  101.07360 is the same except lacks back gear.  Lathe in photo has back gears because the eccentric operating handle is visible above the spindle nose.  Model numbers are not shown in any catalog although from about 1950 on new model numbers are partially used for catalog numbers (first four of the five digits).


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## wa5cab (Oct 29, 2016)

That photo is out of the 1936 Craftsman Power Tools catalog.


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## Jman (Oct 29, 2016)

Robert the 1936 power tools catalog that you put into the downloads was the first place I saw this picture but I didn't know how to eliminate the price that you mentioned in an earlier post, which distracted from the representation of the lathe. It was also easier for me to copy the picture from the UK site then from the downloads file I am still learning how to do these things.


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## wa5cab (Oct 29, 2016)

Well, you're correct about that.  I don't know of a PDF handler (including Acrobat) that allows you to selectively delete or clean up part of a page.  Before you can do that, you have to convert the .PDF file to a format that you have an edit capable editor for.  I use .TIF files for that purpose, and also for storage of most of what I scan (which has nothing to do with machine tool manuals).  Acrobat will allow you to extract single pages to another file.  However, only the Adobe reader or IrfanView is free.  Acrobat and Imaging are moderately expensive.


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## Jman (Oct 29, 2016)

Thank you for that info Robert I am glad I didn't spend any more time then I did, and it wouldn't be the first time trying to do something that isn't possible as it stands. Maybe next week after some of my parts that I ordered come in, I will try to find some free way to use the info that is in PDF on this site. Thanks again for your earlier Downloads post by finding the closest Parts Manual for my machine and in it you stated that you didn't have the Manual for the 07381, but for others who might be interested I believe it is included just below the PDF for the 07382 and I hope it is what I think it is because I downloaded it to my desktop so I can play with it later.


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## wa5cab (Oct 30, 2016)

If you remember where I wrote that we don't have a parts list for the 101.07381 please point me to it and I'll correct it.  ***EDIT***  Never mind - I found it.  I don't know why I wrote that other than as a typo as we've had one for at least 18 months.  Although it and the one for the 101.07382 are both flat parts lists, not illustrated.  Sears (or Atlas) didn't start doing illustrated parts lists for the 12" until around 1950.  What we do not at present have are parts lists for the following:

101.07360 through 101.07363 (however, that's not critical as an 0736x is just an 0738x without back gears).
101.07380
101.07402
101.07401
101.07400

I actually have parts lists from Sears Parts Direct for all twelve models (101.07360 through 101.07403) that I downloaded while they were still readily available on their web site and converted into DBF files.  However, there is considerable evidence that when a part was revised and was backwards compatible (even when you had to buy several other newer parts as well), the older parts lists show the newer part numbers.  Case in point (no other parts involved) is that you said that the two gear guards on your machine were 10-247 and 10-248, Sears Parts Direct says 10D-247 and 10D-248.  Now it is possible that 10-247 and 10D-247 both start life as the same casting and that the difference is in the machining.  For example, the beds on the 9", 10" and 12" all seem to have 9-1, 942, 948 and 954 in the castings.  But the part numbers may have a suffix A, B or C.  Or no suffix.  The reason is that there were at least 5 different sets of legs.  And the mounting hole patterns vary.

One other thing I will add while I've got the soap box.  There are no known official or original illustrated parts lists for any model not produced after WW-II.  The one in DOWNLOADS for the 101.07383 was "drawn" by me, using the one for the 101.07403 as a source of most of the drawings and the flat parts list as the reference.  I'm almost done with a similar one for the 10D using the 10E flat parts list and some owner reports as a reference.


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## wa5cab (Oct 30, 2016)

Also, if your machine looks mostly like the one in the photo on the UK Lathes website, it is a 101.07380.  101.07381 "officially" has a cast gear guard, switch mounted in the headstock, and the later compound and cross slide assembly.  However, the changes at least to those three points didn't all necessarily happen on the same day.


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## Jman (Oct 30, 2016)

Robert give yourself a break for all the hours you have put in getting all these parts lists into the Downloads forum one small slip-up is no big deal and this is a concise post bringing all the pertinent info concerning what is and is not available in parts-lists in Downloads. You can get on your soapbox anytime as far as I am concerned helping new guys like me understand what the proper components make up these old lathes, thanks again for all your efforts. 

Yes I do believe my lathe is a 101.7380, it will be awhile yet but I will send in any pics and info that I find of my lathe as I continue to work on it.


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## wa5cab (Oct 30, 2016)

Thanks.


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## wa5cab (Nov 6, 2016)

That's the one that I created.  It has my mark on it, and the file name is in my format.  I built it by combining the similar factory illustrated  one for the 101.07403 and the factory flat parts list for the 101.07383.  Plus some editing of a few of the drawings, for example to show the hex head bolts and babbit type spindle bearing caps.  And the shape of the belt guard.  Most other parts only required editing the part numbers as the scale is too small to show a difference between for example a 5/8" and a 3/4" diameter lead screw.  On other parts, like the beds, the differences aren't visible in the drawings as all of the beds of the same length use the same basic castings.


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## Jman (Jan 19, 2017)

I had a friend take some pics for me this is one that shows the casting number and as you can see there would not be enough room for a D so this should show this is a unique casting of the 10 and not a result of different machining.


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## Jman (Jan 19, 2017)

Robert I am giving this post another try


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## Jman (Jan 19, 2017)




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## wa5cab (Jan 19, 2017)

John,

OK.  I deleted the post where the upload didn't "take".  

A part number with just 10- instead of 10D- merely means that the part was created for the early 10.  If the part was carried over to the 10D, the part number did not change.  So although you shouldn't find any 10D- part numbers on a 9" or early 10", there are a lot of 10- parts on a 10D.  There are even some on my 3996.  If the part was modified but perhaps with other parts also changed is retrofittable to an earlier model, its part number would become for example 10-xxxA .  9-101-20 for example was used on the 9" up through 10D and 101.07401.  9-101-20A was used on the 10F and 101.07362 up through the 3996.  And if you change enough other parts, you could use it on a 9".


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## Jman (Jan 19, 2017)

Robert thanks again but this is now confusing me even more, I made the mistake in my initial identification of my 12" 7380 because of those 10 numbers. In an earlier post on this thread you stated that it is possible that the 10-247 and the 10D-247 start life as the same casting and the difference is in the machining. I am going to bed my brain has had its fill with the picture problem for this day.


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## wa5cab (Jan 20, 2017)

Yep.  And that is still possible.  But it's also possible that the first few production 101.07380's were shipped with 10-246 and 10-247.  And it's also possible that it was a foundry error.  The Atlas parts sheet and the Sears Parts Direct listing on the 101.07380 and 101.07381 show the "D" variant.


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