# New Shop Lighting



## mcoak

I am finally getting electricity to my new shop space. It's about 15' by 30', no windows.  

Would fluorescent fixtures be the best way to light the shop?


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## JimDawson

If it's in the budget, I would go with florescent tube replacement type LED lighting.  Higher initial cost, but would pay for themselves in time.  Fluorescent fixtures would be my second choice.

I would also encourage installing a battery powered emergency light just for safety.  http://www.mcmaster.com/#power-failure-lights/=wzqxkv


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## T Bredehoft

I'll tell the world about Lithonia Lighting's "4' LED Wraparound /120."  They're not cheap at $59 ea, but they sure do put out the light. I got mine at Home Depot, and the bin they were in was almost empty, seems like they are selling them as fast as they can stock them.


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## mattthemuppet2

I'd go with LED too. You can get double fixtures from Costco for $40 and HD sells Cree drop in tubes for $20. It's not the longevity and lower electricity costs that make the biggest difference, but the better light quality (if you get decent ones) and instant on. My "shop" is all LED other than the task light next to the lathe and it's made a world of difference. Given that you'll probably be converting to LED at some point even if you do get fluorescents, you might as well do it now


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## kvt

Heck LOWES and HD have 2 bulb 4Ft florescent fixtures for as low as $11 each,   Purchase those then get the replacement LED bulbs, take out the Ballast, and away you go,  I replaced the bulbs in my 2 bulb units and wow,   I can see things better than ever,   I did not know the Pace could be lit up like that.   I got the 5500 -6000K bulbs and the are bright as a full sunny day.   I guess if you wanted to you could also get the replacement ends for the florescent fixtures and build you a box and wire it up.   The ones I did  were set up so both prongs on one end were power and the other was ground.   (I actually had to replace the parts on one end as I knocked it off and broke both of them.)   from 2 to 4 bucks a pair.


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## FOMOGO

I put up t8 florescents in the shop, and they are great. Going to look into the led's for my new building. Mike


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## brino

Personally I find LEDs still way overpriced......but you guys keep buying them so the price comes down , okay?

I have nearly a dozen fluorescent fixtures in my shop, and have picked up old desk lamps and arm lamps at yard sales to provide "task" lighting at each machine.

However,  CFL bulbs have to be one of the greatest product flops in my lifetime. 
-supposed to be environmentally friendly, but may have more mercury than fluorescent!
-supposed to work anywhere, but the electronics overheat and die -they last shorter than incandescent!
I'll never buy another one of those.

-brino


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## mcoak

Wow - thanks for all the information.   I'll be looking into the LED fluorescent replacements.   I have LEDs in flashlights, a few table lamps and soon in the shop.  I won't be buying any more CFLs, that's for sure.


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## coolidge

I use Lithonia 6 bulb fixtures with 6 Daylight 6500k bulbs each times 6 fixtures in my 3 car garage. This gives me 36 bulbs of brighter than an alien spacecraft light to work under. The light blasting out my garage door windows at night is epic!!


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## Chippy

If you don't go with LED, my second choice should be T-5 florescence. Much brighter then T-8 fixtures and work when it's very cold.


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## mcoak

I plan to go the LED route, at least for the shop area.   Might do T-5s in the garage.  

Coolidge:  Were the Lithonia fixtures originally fluorescent?


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## SteveM

I priced T8, T5, and LED. Little price difference between T5 and T8. LED almost double but less to operate, no maintenance, and better light IMO. Plan to sucks it up and pay the price


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## mattthemuppet2

for me the biggest pluses are instant on, whatever the temperature, and good colour rendition. I used to get so peeved at the fluorescents and CFLs not lighting or being dim in the winter! The fact that all the lighting in my garage/ shop adds up to less than 25W, including 3 task lights, is just a bonus


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## ProfessorGuy

When I put the electric in my shop, I did it the same way I wired my kitchen.  Even though I'm an amateur electrician, I knew enough about code requirements to run 2 circuits for the outlets and a SEPARATE circuit for the overhead lights.  My kitchen is only 84 square feet, but it has 3 circuit breakers dedicated to it.  My shop is only 200 square feet (I use tabletop equipment for watchmaking), but it has the same setup: 2 20 amp for outlets, with the lights on its own 15 amp circuit.

The idea is when you blow a circuit because of something you did on the bench, THE LIGHTS DON'T GO OUT.  This is important in a kitchen or a shop since there are lots of dangerous things in a small area.


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## mcoak

Professor Guy that is a very good point.


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## rrdstarr

mcoak said:


> I am finally getting electricity to my new shop space. It's about 15' by 30', no windows.
> 
> Would fluorescent fixtures be the best way to light the shop?



I used FEIT 4' LED Shop lights.  No more humming ballast and a good colour of light.  Costco.com has two packs for $79.99.  They'll last forever!  I am very happy with them in my little 10' X 12' shop.


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## Rex Walters

The Phillips T8 LED tubes that Home Depot sells have a built-in ballast bypass. Just swap the tubes and you're good to go. No need to disconnect the ballast. They were about $24/tube here locally (the shop lights rrdstarr purchased from Costco include the fixture — the are just bare T8 bulbs).

I just replaced all the fluorescent tubes in my shop, and I'm very happy with the result. Nice bright white (noticeably brighter than the fluorescent tubes I had before). The LEDs will last forever. As ballasts start to fail or buzz I'll remove them, but with 18 tubes to replace in my 20'x20' shop, I was happy to just swap the tubes. "Daylight" color temperature (about 5000K) and nice and bright (1650 Lumens).

As others in the thread point out, LEDs cost more up front, but since you'll never have to replace them you'll recoup the expense within a few years. More importantly, you'll never have to deal with the flickering and annoyance of failing bulbs.
-- 
Rex


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## Travis7s

I'm also switching to LED in some areas. I'm a little dubious that they will last 'forever' as they haven't been around long enough to prove it. The LEDs themselves probably, the internal power supply I'm not so sure about.... CFLs were supposed to last way longer than conventional bulbs but my CFL always seemed to die prematurely and randomly.


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## mcoak

I read quite a bit about lighting on the Garage Journal forums.  Think I will install florescent fixtures that can be easily switched to LEDs when LED prices come down.


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## kd4gij

I use t8 daylight bulbs in my shop they put out a nice white light. If your lights will be under 10ft high then t8 is the way to go. If over 10 ft then t5. t5 doesn't spread  the light like t8 does.


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## TOOLMASTER

2.50 for led is expensive?


just did my whole house..electric bill dropped 80 bucks the first month


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## Eddyde

My whole shop and most of my home is now LED electric bill down even from the compact fluorescents. For the shop I used 4" octagon boxes with the simple porcelain utility fixtures spaced 3'-4' apart in a grid and LED 60W equivalent 9.5W actual "light bulbs". It gives great area light, I have supplemental lights at each machine. Each fixture with the bulb cost less than $10.


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## mcoak

I replaced several overhead incandescent fixtures with LED fixtures.  I like them, especially the idea of no bulb replacement.


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## Firestopper

Like some have stated, LED is still somewhat over priced and I'm still not convinced the quality is there on affable units. I too replaced all interior can lights in our home to CFL's only to be diasapointed in the longevity of the bulbs and no noticeable energy savings. I did not want to have a similar experience with LED's. 

mcoak, you did not mention your ceiling height of your shop. This information should be considered in your choice of fixture and placement.
After researching lighting (two years ago), I settled with T-5 high bay fixtures. Each fixture puts out 33k lumens (according to literature) and come on instantly.

check relighdepot.com 

Does any body else find it ironic, that the incandescent bulb was invented in the US, and the US is the first place to ban them.


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## mcoak

Firestopper,

Ceiling height is 9 feet.   I am installing fluorescent fixtures for now.   

Mitch


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## cvairwerks

I've been moving to T5HO fixtures in the garage, with 6500K bulbs. The bulbs  are as expensive as the LED's but have a better color temp for outside color matching on painted parts.  When they start making LED's with the 6500K color temp, I might move over to them.  As the Daylight CFL's around the house have died, I've been replacing them with Cree LED's at 5000K color temps.


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## stupoty

I've got a few brands of gu10 spot led lamps that have been quite nice and also quite afordable.  About £5 each for good but no name or rebranded type of stuff , i do have a couple of osram lamps and they are a very nice light, the most like an incandesant lamp that i have seen, they were £10 each.

Has anyone used hmi discharge lamps? I've seen them used as wall wash lights and in shops a lot in the past but normaly i see them in about 800w rateing.

Only ask as i had a spair driver for a car hid and some spair lamps, when i pluged it in the amount of light seemed rediculous compared to any other 35w lamp i had 

Stuart


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## Rex Walters

firestopper said:


> LI too replaced all interior can lights in our home to CFL's only to be diasapointed in the longevity of the bulbs and no noticeable energy savings. I did not want to have a similar experience with LED's.



That's certainly rational. CFL benefits and reliability were spectacularly oversold. I can understand once-bitten-twice-shy, but LEDs really are much, *much *better than fluorescent in many dimensions: see this comparison.

The 50,000 hour reliability figure is probably for the individual physical LEDs themselves and almost certainly presumes good cooling  and no problems with other circuitry (like ballast bypass) but my experience with LEDs so far has been orders of magnitude better than CFL, incandescent, or normal T8 fluorescent bulbs. I've had no problems whatsoever: instant on, much brighter, consistent light, no failures (in my shop) so far, and less power consumption. High energy LEDs (e.g. CREE) *do* need good heatsink/cooling design to remain reliable.

I _have_ had one (just one) LED assembly fail in my home. It was in a sealed bathroom light fixture — I strongly suspect it was a cooling (design) issue. Unlike CFLs, I believe this was a design flaw with the specific device/application and not with the underlying technology. I've not found reliable CFLs from any manufacturer, but this was the *only* LED light assembly I've ever had fail. I replaced it with one from another manufacturer a couple months ago. We'll see.

They are still more expensive than fluorescent, but the adoption rate has been quite fast and they are getting cheaper every day. FWIW, I'll never go back.

Regards,
-- 
Rex


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## Terrywerm

Going way back, I had installed a number of CFLs in my house, but was not a fan. Since then I have converted those fixtures from CFL to LED and did away with all of the CFLs. There are a few incandescent bulbs in low usage areas yet, but as they burn out they will be replaced with LEDs also.

I had a CFL go bad a few years back. It caught fire and it was a good thing we were home when it happened! Luckily all it took was to shut off the power and the fire quickly subsided, but it could have been worse. It was at about that time that Home Depot had Cree LED 60W equivalent soft white bulbs on sale for $7 each. I bought ten of them, along with a couple of daylight ones, just to try them out. All of the CFLs are gone from my house and I will never purchase another one.



Eddyde said:


> My whole shop and most of my home is now LED electric bill down even from the compact fluorescents. For the shop I used 4" octagon boxes with the simple porcelain utility fixtures spaced 3'-4' apart in a grid and LED 60W equivalent 9.5W actual "light bulbs". It gives great area light, I have supplemental lights at each machine. Each fixture with the bulb cost less than $10.



I am in the middle of doing the exact same thing in my basement shop area. The room is small, 12' x 11' and I am putting nine porcelain fixtures in there in a grid pattern covering an area roughly 9' x 9'. There should be few shadows in the room when done, but I will still have spot lighting on the lathe, mill, drill press, and bench grinder. Estimated cost for fixtures, boxes, romex, and LED bulbs will be under $100. Electricity cost at 3 hours per day (at current rates) will be 83 cents per month. Don't think I can beat that with a stick!


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## MonkMan

I went with Williams Fluorescent Lighting. They have a web app for light fixture placement based on the shop size and illuminance required. After several trials I ended up with 8,  4 lamp luminaires (220 W)
for my 26 x 40 x 11 H shop. These provide an average illuminance of 96 fc at 3 feet off the floor. I use Philips Alto TL5 54W/ 850 HO lamps. They are 5000k daylight and I have almost no shadow on the work surface.

Paul


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## Country_Bubba

+1 for the Led lighting.
In my house, I recently had to make a decision for the lights in my kitchen as they are 20+ years old and flaky in operation.  Looked at the replacement tube in Led and thought that was a bit much.  
So, I ordered a 5M strip of superbright 5630 (300 led/strip) lights and a power supply off ebay.  To make a long story short, I am extremely pleased with the results as they appear to have at least as much light as the old lights and are instant on!  Conversion was quick and easy.  Like it so much, all the old fixtures in the house and shop will be refitted.  Oh and the price of the strip and leds was cheaper than buying new ballasts.  A 5M strip is enough to do two 4' fixtures and leaves 9 leds spare.


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## TOOLMASTER

ALL LED HERE ;-)


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## mcoak

I will convert when LED prices drop.   As a ham radio operator I am concerned about EMI from the LED power supplies.   A couple of articles about LEDs and EMI:

http://www.ledbenchmark.com/faq/LED-interference-issues.html
http://www.emcrules.com/2011/07/radio-interference-from-led-lighting.html

Mitch


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## RJSakowski

For operating efficiency, LED's have taken the lead.  Next are HO T5 fluorescent's, followed by standard fluorescent's.  For longevity, far and away , LED's.  I have replaced most of the screw-in bulbs in the home and shop with CFL's.  The few that I haven't are on dimmer circuits or are used so infrequently that their lower operating cost doesn't justify the higher initial cost. 

CFL lamps initially came out with claims like 50,000 hr. life.  In my experience, I would be lucky to get 5,000.  I have a bucket full of those spirally things.  LED's are also supposed to have a 50,000 hr life.  I have been using them for area lighting for more than eight years and have yet to replace one.  Our kitchen is all LED except for one CFL over the island and we have more than 1600 LED's in it.

In the northern regions, CFL's and other fluorescent's don't work well in a cold environment, so not a good choice outdoors.  

On our front porch, I installed 16 ft. of high output strip lighting and it provides about 5,000 lumens of light.  Because of the directivity LED illumination, this is roughly equivalent to a similar length of  fluorescent lamps.  

I  mounted the strip in 1/2 aluminum channel, commonly used for edging in woodwork after milling the legs down so they wouldn't obstruct the light.  I bought lengths of 1"square expanded PVC trim and split it on the diagonal, chamfered the square edge to provide for wiring and milled a groove to accept the aluminum channel.  The resultant fixture  fits neatly in the corner between the house wall and the porch ceiling.  It operates on 12 v.d.c. and is powered by a 30W switching power supply.  It also has a remote controlled dimmer so it can be powered on and off and dimmed from within the house.

I still have some CFL's in the shop, mainly because of the higher output.  I am running 150w to 250W equivalent on three fixtures which compromise the main shop lighting.  In the machining area, I have 10 4' ft fluorescent's, a legacy system, and I still have a box of replacement lamps so I'm not likely to do a replacement on those yet.  Screw-in LED bulbs have come down significantly in price and when they're on sale at the local DIY I buy a bunch.  The last sale, they were just over two dollars each for 60W equivalent bulbs.  When they come out with 150W equivalent LED bulbs at a reasonable price, I will replace all the shop CFL's.

On the machines themselves, I have changed any incandescent lighting to LED.  I don't know if it's true but those spiral lamps look rather fragile and I wouldn't want a stray piece of metal or tool to break one.  

If I were rewiring the shop, I probably would run more screw-in fixtures so that I could take advantage of the more common 60W equivalent LED bulbs for general lighting.  For lighting in the machine area, I would opt for more diffuse lighting so the choices for me would be fluorescent fixtures with the intent of converting to LED at a later date, an LED driven fixture in a fluorescent format.

4' LED replacements for fluorescent's are still up around $13/1000 lumens in the local DIY's although I have found replacement lamps online for as low as $5.6/1000 lumens.  A typical 40W fluorescent puts out about 2600 lumens so I would want similar output from an LED replacement solution.  At an operating cost of $.15/kwh, the differential is that great yet; about $.0004/1000 lumens/hr.   At that rate the break-even point would be about 30,000 hrs. 

However, the technology is improving all the time and cost is coming down.   As I see it, the big roadblock to high output LED lighting is the required heat sinking.  As the efficiency of LED's improve, the heat sinking requirements drop and they are able to squeeze more lumens out of a smaller package.  I have two 6mm LED's on my desk that will put out over 1300 lumens each and Cree has a 9mm package that will put out up to 4,000 lumens.  

Bob


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## RJSakowski

mcoak said:


> I will convert when LED prices drop.   As a ham radio operator I am concerned about EMI from the LED power supplies.   A couple of articles about LEDs and EMI:
> 
> http://www.ledbenchmark.com/faq/LED-interference-issues.html
> http://www.emcrules.com/2011/07/radio-interference-from-led-lighting.html
> 
> Mitch


LED power supplies can be as simple as a current limiting resistor.  We are in the wild and woolly days of the LED area lighting technology and there can be all kinds of weird drivers out there.  For high efficiency,  high frequency switching drivers are typically used but isn't that where the fluorescent technology is going as well?  As a former ham, I can relate to the issues with trying to eliminate points sources of interference. While I no longer search the radio spectrum for tiny signals and can't speak to that, I have been immersed in LED lighting for almost a decade and have never noticed any problems.   The FCC has the authority to regulate this industry and I would  expect that if it becomes enough of an irritant, they will.

As I see it, the biggest issue is that we are trying to convert an incandescent world to a new technology that doesn't like 120v.ac.  Thus we come up with devices with point of use power conversion which, to be competitive, are subject to compromise. Maybe a better solution would be to add a low voltage d.c. lighting buss driven by a well designed central power source?

Bob


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## Smithdoor

I found 4 ft fluorescent is the lowest cost to buy and run
LED is about same to run but larger price
I use both 4 ft fluorescent and standard LED/CFL in my shop

Dave



mcoak said:


> I am finally getting electricity to my new shop space. It's about 15' by 30', no windows.
> 
> Would fluorescent fixtures be the best way to light the shop?


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## Rex Walters

RJSakowski said:


> Maybe a better solution would be to add a low voltage d.c. lighting buss driven by a well designed central power source?



That's a sufficiently interesting idea that I may eventually try it in my small shop for some task lighting. I went with the T8 fluorescent bulb replacements for my main overhead LED lighting because I already had the fluorescent fixtures mounted on my ceiling, but if I was doing it from scratch I'd definitely think hard about running some DC power rails and building hanging (movable) LED fixtures (both spot and flood lighting). 

I like the idea of doing the AC/DC conversion in one place but another advantage of low-voltage DC rails is that it enables movable fixtures on exposed (or somewhat exposed) rails. It seems like shop lighting would be particularly applicable for these types of hanging rails, especially if you could mix and match spot light and flood light fixtures. I'll have to research this.

Slightly off topic (LED task lighting vs. shop lighting) but the twenty bucks I spent adding these task spot lights to my mill were incredibly well spent. Really *bright* lights — perfect for this application:




Regards,
-- 
Rex


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## RJSakowski

Rex Walters said:


> That's a sufficiently interesting idea that I may eventually try it in my small shop for some task lighting. I went with the T8 fluorescent bulb replacements for my main overhead LED lighting because I already had the fluorescent fixtures mounted on my ceiling, but if I was doing it from scratch I'd definitely think hard about running some DC power rails and building hanging (movable) LED fixtures (both spot and flood lighting).
> 
> I like the idea of doing the AC/DC conversion in one place but another advantage of low-voltage DC rails is that it enables movable fixtures on exposed (or somewhat exposed) rails. It seems like shop lighting would be particularly applicable for these types of hanging rails, especially if you could mix and match spot light and flood light fixtures. I'll have to research this.
> 
> Slightly off topic (LED task lighting vs. shop lighting) but the twenty bucks I spent adding these task spot lights to my mill were incredibly well spent. Really *bright* lights — perfect for this application:
> 
> Regards,
> --
> Rex


Rex, 

I did my kitchen on two low voltage busses.  One is 30 volts and operates the LED spot lighting and under cabinet lighting and the other is a 12 volt bus which operates the strip lighting used for bounce lighting.  I would think that some of the commercially available lighting tracks could be easily repurposed.  

Bob


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## mcoak

RJSakowski said:


> LED power supplies can be as simple as a current limiting resistor.  We are in the wild and woolly days of the LED area lighting technology and there can be all kinds of weird drivers out there.  For high efficiency,  high frequency switching drivers are typically used but isn't that where the fluorescent technology is going as well?  As a former ham, I can relate to the issues with trying to eliminate points sources of interference. While I no longer search the radio spectrum for tiny signals and can't speak to that, I have been immersed in LED lighting for almost a decade and have never noticed any problems.   The FCC has the authority to regulate this industry and I would  expect that if it becomes enough of an irritant, they will.
> 
> As I see it, the biggest issue is that we are trying to convert an incandescent world to a new technology that doesn't like 120v.ac.  Thus we come up with devices with point of use power conversion which, to be competitive, are subject to compromise. Maybe a better solution would be to add a low voltage d.c. lighting buss driven by a well designed central power source?
> 
> Bob



Bob,

That's an interesting idea.  Especially for task lighting as mentioned by Rex.  

Haven't done any electronic design/build for a few decades.   Can you recommend some web sites related to LED lighting?

Thanks,
Mitch


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## RJSakowski

mcoak said:


> Bob,
> 
> That's an interesting idea.  Especially for task lighting as mentioned by Rex.
> 
> Haven't done any electronic design/build for a few decades.   Can you recommend some web sites related to LED lighting?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mitch


Mitch,

For strip lighting, I have used Environmental Lights in the past.  However, when I checked today they seem to have severely curtailed their offerings. http://www.environmentallights.com/
I have also purchased individual LED's and drivers from LED Supply.  http://www.ledsupply.com/?gclid=CI2hyJ3FuMkCFRCqaQodWmoNKw
Some of the original Philips Lumileds LED's and drivers came from Future Electronics. http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/Search.aspx?dsNav=Ro:0,Nea:True,N:907
Lastly, the best deal that I found on 4' LED lamps for fluorescent replacement came from 1000 bulbs.  I haven't purchased from them, though.  https://www.1000bulbs.com/

Bob


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## mcoak

RJSakowski said:


> Mitch,
> 
> For strip lighting, I have used Environmental Lights in the past.  However, when I checked today they seem to have severely curtailed their offerings. http://www.environmentallights.com/
> I have also purchased individual LED's and drivers from LED Supply.  http://www.ledsupply.com/?gclid=CI2hyJ3FuMkCFRCqaQodWmoNKw
> Some of the original Philips Lumileds LED's and drivers came from Future Electronics. http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/Search.aspx?dsNav=Ro:0,Nea:True,N:907
> Lastly, the best deal that I found on 4' LED lamps for fluorescent replacement came from 1000 bulbs.  I haven't purchased from them, though.  https://www.1000bulbs.com/
> 
> Bob




Bob,

Thanks for the links.  Something to peruse over the holidays.

Mitch


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## TOOLMASTER

You can always do this...


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## TOOLMASTER

4.94 for 2


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## mcoak

Another great idea.   Do you have some of the lights mounted on the wall?


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## TOOLMASTER

mcoak said:


> Another great idea.   Do you have some of the lights mounted on the wall?




IF you are asking me..the one pic is turned..


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## jangeli

TOOLMASTER said:


> You can always do this...
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> View attachment 115888
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Great idea!!


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## abrace

TOOLMASTER said:


> You can always do this...
> 
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> 
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> View attachment 115887
> View attachment 115888
> View attachment 115889
> View attachment 115890
> View attachment 115891
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What is being used for the conduit there? Those are EMT fittings, but the pipe looks like black iron? Doesn't look like any code compliant conduit/raceway I have ever worked with.

---Aaron


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## TOOLMASTER

black painted conduit


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## mattthemuppet2

made some more lights for my garage - total time ~4h, total cost ~$15. Almost the whole of the garage is lit by ~23W of LEDs running off a single light socket and the light output is the same whatever the temp. I was working out there last week when it was 18F and the CFL over my lathe (another project to covert to LED!) took over 15min to come up to full brightness.

For the spare work room


 for the side of the garage



they're really not hard to make if you can use a soldering iron.


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## RIMSPOKE

I am finally getting electricity to my new shop space. It's about 15' by 30', no windows. 

Would fluorescent fixtures be the best way to light the shop? 

I HAVE HAD TWELVE 48" FLORESCENT FIXTURES IN MY SHOP FOR YEARS  . 
YES THEY MAKE LIGHT BUT I HAVE NEVER REALLY LIKED THEM . 

THEY FLICKER & BUZZ . THEY NEED TUBE REPLACEMENT ON A REGULAR BASIS . 
THE WORST PART IS THAT THEY ARE DARK AS A DUNGEON WHEN IT IS COLD OUT THERE . 

I JUST REPLACED ALL THE TUBES WITH LED LIGHTING . YOU NEED TO REWIRE THEM 
( VERY SIMPLE JOB ) AND THE BALLAST IS NO LONGER NEEDED . 

THESE USED TO BE STINKIN' EXPENSIVE BUT I GOT A BULK DEAL ON E-BAY FOR 6 BUCKS A TUBE !
THIS INCLUDED SHIPPING ! SO FOR UNDER 150 BUCKS , I HAVE NEW LIGHTING UPSTAIRS & DOWN . 

WHAT A DIFFERENCE ! INSTANT ON , TWICE THE LIGHT AT 1/3 THE POWER & 20 TIMES THE BULB LIFE . 
COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE ANY HAPPIER . I WOULDN'T EVEN CONSIDER FLORESCENT WITH THESE ON THE MARKET .


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## FOMOGO

Looks pretty well lit now. I recognize the red and white Issetta, but not sure on the others. Had a friend put a Corvair engine in an Issetta with much bigger tires on the rear. Is the truck VW? Mike


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## RIMSPOKE

Looks pretty well lit now. I recognize the red and white Issetta, but not sure on the others. 
Had a friend put a Corvair engine in an Issetta with much bigger tires on the rear. Is the truck VW? Mike 

CORVAIR POWERED ISETTA ? DO YOU MEAN LIKE THIS ONE ?  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281912167902?forcerRptr=true&item=281912167902&viewitem= 

I AM NO STRANGER TO HOT RODDING ISETTAS . I PUT A BMW 700cs MOTOR IN ONE 
MID ENGINE SO IT FITS INSIDE THE BODYWORK & IT'S ALL BMW . 









THE TRUCK IS GERMAN BUT IT's NOT A VW . 
IT IS A 1959 GOLIATH GOLI . WATER COOLED 500cc 2cyl 2STROKE . 
4 SPEED TRANNY  , FRONT ENGINE , REAR WHEEL DRIVE .


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## FOMOGO

Yes, very much like that one. I imagine you don't want do a lot of sharp high speed turns with the truck. Very sharp looking though. Mike


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## RIMSPOKE

Yes, very much like that one. I imagine you don't want do a lot of sharp high speed turns with the truck. Very sharp looking though. Mike 

NO PROBLEM MIKE , IT IS PAINFULLY SLOW ! 
WITH JUST 500cc WORKING FOR YOU , IT CAN BARELY MUSTER 40mph WIDE OPEN .


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