# Tramming tools/indicators



## Lgotcher (Sep 9, 2014)

Hi. i have seen advertized several spindle tramming tools consisting of a vertical shaft and a cross piece with a dial indicator placed on each end of the cross piece.  The tool is tee shaped. i saw a video of the tool being calibrated on a granite surface plate then attached to the spindle of the machine. The spindlle was then lowered until the dial indicators were touching the machines table.  The indicators should read very close to the same.  Adjusting the position of the head if they do not. Then rotating the tram tool 90 degrees and repeating the last steps. 
My question is, if the chuck or collet holding the tram tool shaft is not holding it perfectly aligned with the machines spindle it would not give accurrite readings because the tram shaft would be at an angle to the machine spindle causing one indicator to be closer to the machine table than the other. it seems to me that if just one indicator was used and rotating the tram tool 180 degrees between readings would eliminate any error caused by chuck/collet missalignment.  If there was a slight angle to the tram tool this would place the angle on the same side of the machine spindle as the indicator thus giving a true reading in relation to the true center of the machine spindle.
Am I correct or am I missing sometning here?
Lee


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## JimDawson (Sep 9, 2014)

Lee, you are absoultly correct.  I have never seen the need for these type of tramming tools, seems like a waste of time to me.  I guess if everything is perfect, then they would work, but I find it just as easy to tram in the head using a single indicator.  I don't see the need for a dedicated tool when a more universal tool will do the same job with no extra work on my part.


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## Lgotcher (Sep 9, 2014)

Thanks. i was beginning to think i was getting too old to think straight anymore. i'll bet the Starrett one is real spendy.  I think i will just stick to the one i made.
Lee


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## zmotorsports (Sep 9, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> Lee, you are absoultly correct.  I have never seen the need for these type of tramming tools, seems like a waste of time to me.  I guess if everything is perfect, then they would work, but I find it just as easy to tram in the head using a single indicator.  I don't see the need for a dedicated tool when a more universal tool will do the same job with no extra work on my part.



I agree with Jim, no sense in making it any more difficult than it needs to be nor is it necessary to re-invent the wheel.  One indicator at 90 degree increments and take care of the tilt and nod and move on to making chips.


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## chuckorlando (Sep 9, 2014)

My instructor said he wont use them and thats good enough for me. I was taught to sweep with a dial or even better a test indicator and thats just what I'll do. Besides, all the things to spend money or time on, I can think of so many better toys to have.


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## darkzero (Sep 9, 2014)

Edge Technology makes a nice one for a great price. Comes with it's own case too for $100. They make great products, I have a couple items from them. But not the tram tool, I don't believe in them, I'm fine just tramming with a single DTI or Starret back pluge indicator.

http://www.edgetechnologyproducts.com/pro-tram-system/


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## kd4gij (Sep 11, 2014)

Those tramming aids are easy to make and work quit well. You don't set them like in the ops post. Set a gauge block or 123 block on the mill table bring the quil down and zero the first gauge. Swing it around and zero the second gauge. now thay are set. Supper fast once you do it the first time.


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## Terrywerm (Sep 11, 2014)

I agree with the previous post. Easy to make without a lot of expense, and very easy to use once it is set the first time. Very fast as well, plus you can use it to accurately set the head to small angles other than 90* as well, much like using a sine bar. I have used them in the past, and have plans to make one in the near future. I already have two matching dial indicators just for that project.

Keeping the inside of the spindle clean, and keeping collets clean are very basic and important, and not difficult to do.

Yes, I can tram the head with a single dial indicator. I can also tram the head with a piece of 1/4" x 12" round stock and a set of feeler gauges, but that doesn't mean I want to go through the extra work involved when I can easily make a tool that will make my job faster, easier, and in most cases less prone to error. I can easily see the advantages of a tramming tool. 

Just my opinion, no offense intended toward those of you that prefer to use the single indicator method, I am not trying to 'sell' anyone on my way of thinking. It's all a matter of personal preference.


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## Lgotcher (Sep 12, 2014)

The video I wached showed the tramming tool being calibrated by simply placing it on a surface plate and adjusting both indicators to zero.  The tramming tool was not installed on a machine at the time it was being calibrated.  Then it was placed in a chuck and lowered to the point that both indicators were touching the the table and the needles had rotated a time or two.  The indicators were read and the difference between them was the amount the spindle was out of tram.  The tram tool was never reversed to compensate for any angle error from the chuck holding the tram tool. This does not make sense to me.  It seems as though the tram tool would read the angle error from the chuck plus or minus the actual angle error between the machine spindle and the table since the tram tool was NOT calibrated in the machines chuck and or reversed.
I may be getting too old and just simply lost.  Thanks for reading the rambling.
Lee


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## rdhem2 (Sep 12, 2014)

I agree with Wormie.  On a bored weekend afternoon I took two Starett dials I got off ebay for $27 and a piece of 2 1/2" x 6" x 1/2" aluminum and a short piece of 1/2" round stock and made a tram gage.  What a handy little item.  And way fast to use also.  Not only reset the Bridgeport but my three drill presses also.  I could not stop after using it only once!  Bridgeport is so right on now that multiple passes on aluminum can be seen but not felt, even with a thumb nail!  I love it.  And for the cost of two scrap dials!  And no brain fast!


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## kd4gij (Sep 13, 2014)

kd4gij said:


> Those tramming aids are easy to make and work quit well. You don't set them like in the ops post. Set a gauge block or 123 block on the mill table bring the quil down and zero the first gauge. Swing it around and zero the second gauge. now thay are set. Supper fast once you do it the first time.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-D1gNYPi3A


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## Pat of TN (Sep 13, 2014)

Once you learn the most basic way of doing a task, that is when you should advance to the next, better method.

You should know how to sweep a table with a DTI. It is a pain in the butt, I have to admit. I hate it. It takes nothing for it to snag on the tee-slots if the mill is out more than 10 thousandths or so.

A normal dial indicator is not as bad, though.

But once I got that down, I made a 6" EZ-tram type rig. It works great, very easy. Simple to make - a square stick with a shank pressed in, two 3/8 holes. I used split clamps on mine, a set screw would be just as fine, for holding the indicators.

I donated it to the school I went to, though. It will probably be forgotten and thrown out, but I don't need it.

Anyway - not sure how factory-made EZ-trams, are, but a homemade one is not as simple. The two DI's may not be exactly in the same position (by may, I mean aren't - it helps a lot if they are similar though). To use one - put it in the spindle. Get a 1-2-3 block, gage block, small surface plate, etc. - a flat piece with two parallel sides - and put it on the table. Position the table so both DIs will be able to hit your precision block, whatever it may be, by turning the spindle.

Zero both indicators on the block. Then, using the knee, lower them to the table. See how the difference is, and correct as needed. Going off of one dial as the "master" dial and the other as a reference dial, get them both to 0.

There are some good YouTube videos on tramming a mill - one by our pal Tubal Cain, the other by some guy from the northeast, in particular.


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## Rbeckett (Sep 13, 2014)

I have to admit I am one of the lazy bunch.  I bought the tramming tool when they had them on sale for 89.00 IIRC and it does come with a nice fitted case and directions to eliminate errors.  A really nice tool, but I would never have spent 100.00 bucks for it...

Bob


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## Lgotcher (Sep 13, 2014)

Hi.  Thanks for all the info.  It makes perfect sense to me when both indicators are calibrated, one at a time, on the same spot on the table.  This eliminates the angle error that most chucks/collets have. Now the tool can be used with both indicators facing the front or side of the machine where they can be read easily. I also see how  the tool can make tramming easier and faster. I also liked the idea of using a small magnet to use as a calibrating post.  It stays put while being used.  Thanks for all the work you just caused me.  I now have to make one for myself.  At least I have all the material needed. Now if you guys could just give me some free time, everything would be perfect.  Thanks again.
Lee


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## JimDawson (Sep 13, 2014)

OK, you guys have convinced me.  I'm going to have to build one just to see how it works out for me.  You just added to my list of projects, and I have too many now.:rofl:


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## John Hasler (Sep 13, 2014)

Lgotcher said:


> Hi.  Thanks for all the info.  It makes perfect sense to me when both indicators are calibrated, one at a time, on the same spot on the table.  This eliminates the angle error that most chucks/collets have. Now the tool can be used with both indicators facing the front or side of the machine where they can be read easily. I also see how  the tool can make tramming easier and faster. I also liked the idea of using a small magnet to use as a calibrating post.  It stays put while being used.  Thanks for all the work you just caused me.  I now have to make one for myself.  At least I have all the material needed. Now if you guys could just give me some free time, everything would be perfect.  Thanks again.
> Lee



It eliminates the angle error but it does not eliminate  the cumulative indicator error.


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## Smudgemo (Sep 13, 2014)

I've put this out there before, but if you get a good quality bearing race of a decent size (like Timken 6"+), it's easier to sweep the table with a DTI because the t-slots don't interfere.  Less than $10 on ebay, normally.
-Ryan


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## astjp2 (Sep 16, 2014)

I use one at work for setting up the heads on our open mills (Trak DPM's, Bridgeports) after maintenance.  They make it fast and easy to get real close enough for production work.  Tim


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## DaRiddler (Sep 27, 2014)

Smudgemo said:


> I've put this out there before, but if you get a good quality bearing race of a decent size (like Timken 6"+), it's easier to sweep the table with a DTI because the t-slots don't interfere.  Less than $10 on ebay, normally.
> -Ryan




I hit up my local brake shop for a junked brake rotor.  Check it for true then use it as above.  Same difference, just may be more accessible (and perhaps cheaper).

DaRiddler


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## BRIAN (Sep 30, 2014)

I posted this a while back.It still holds good the tram on my mill is as good as you will get, i cannot trace any ridge's using my test indicator on any of the work done after using this method. 
Try it you may be pleasantly surprised.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/21981-Traming-plate

Brian.


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## Rick Leslie (Sep 30, 2014)

I snagged a box of large bearing races last year just for this reason. Now I have to slow down long enough to build the tram and buy a couple more indicators. Glad to hear most of you like this method.


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