# Mig Gone Haywire



## Franko

I traded in my old faithful Lincoln 175 MIG last summer and thought I upgraded to a Hobart Handler 190 with a spool gun, hoping I could weld aluminum with it, having tried a Lincoln 225 TIG a few years earlier and failed miserably.

The first month I had the new Hobart, I practiced with the spool gun on aluminum and wasn't very impressed with it. It was a beast and very difficult to control and I melted a lot of aluminum.Isost faith and  purchased a Miller Syncromatic 210 and practiced with it for  few weeks, giving TIG another shot. I practiced with it for several weeks and got distracted on a pressing job.

Meanwhile, the Hobart MIG sat idle for a few months. I didn't try welding steel with because I didn't think it would be a problem.

I had a project to weld some big steel, so I fired up the new Hobart Handler.
I fiddled with it for a couple hours and didn't even come close to making a good weld. I gave up, put it away and did the job with the Miller TIG.

The problem I was having was pourous and pitted welds that were just stacking up and not blending on the edges.

I have another project where I'm welding a heavy duty steel. I always made good welds with my Lincoln 175, so I thought I'd give MIG another try. I was sure I could figure out whats gone haywire. I spent a couple hours this afternoon and the results were dismal. I didn't even come close to making a good weld.

I tried everything. Check the gas flow, hoses and connections, clean the tip, high amps, low amps, fast wire feed, slow and in between. Nothing worked.
It didn't sound right no matter what adjustment I made. It was the old bacon sizzle, but it was very loud and aggressive, maybe like a string if fire crackers going off. It was like it was blowing it out.

I'm using .030 solid wire with CO2/Argon. I used .023 with the old Lincoln.

The welds all stacked up too high and didn't penetrate around the edges.

I'm at my wits end. I could sure use some advise.

Here is a pic of the last of the test beads. These represent the gammot of adjustments, yet pretty much all the same ugly. These represent amperage between 40 and 70 amps and wire feed between 3 and 7, It's on 3/16" hot roll angle. I used a high speed wire brush to clean up the steel, and even wiped them down with acetone.


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## Franko

I gave up on the MIG welder because I wasn't making any progress on trouble shooting. Since this job needs to be welded, I fired up the TIG and almost immediately was making fairly acceptable welds.

These aren't the prettiest TIG work, but I think they are sound and have good penetration.
There are some black beads at the edges of the beads. They are hard and shiny. They won't chip off. I've never seen this before. I power wire brushed rust off the steel and it was pretty clean, and I also wiped them down with acetone.


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## Tony Wells

Those look an awful lot like gas flow problems to me. I'm no pro welder, but I'd double check everything gas related, including the gas itself. I wouldn't think the supplier would mismark the cylinder, and I don't know of a gas that would give that result, but that's not impossible. You do this outside on a windy day? With the drive roll disengaged, can you hear gas at the gun when triggered? What is your flow?


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## JimDawson

Is it possible that your MIG is set for the wrong polarity ?  It sounds like it is set for flux core wire.


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## psychodelicdan

Have you checked the polarity? Electrode positive. Gas flow 15 to 20 cfm. Is the whip pushed all the way into the socket at the feed rollers. If its not fully in the oring for the gas will not seal. It looks like gas issues. Can you hear gas flow at the nozzle? The welder should have a chart on the inside of the wire cover. They are usually pretty spot on. 

Master of unfinished projects


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## psychodelicdan

Just a thought has all of your mig welding problems been with the exact same cylinder of gas? Can you verify that it has what it says in it. As in did it come from your local weld supply. any friends that are welders. In just a few minutes they should be able tell you what's up with it if it's just setting.

Master of unfinished projects


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## robstaples

Use 100% argon. The CO2 reacts with the al. Google al welding gas


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## jeff_g1137

Franko said:


> I power wire brushed rust off the steel and it was pretty clean,



Hi
I like to grind the steel, the cleaner the better, get the rust & scale off.
look an awful lot like gas flow problems to me.


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## robstaples

robstaples said:


> Use 100% argon. The CO2 reacts with the al. Google al welding gas


Sorry, I was on your opening thread and Aluminum.  It was in the middle of the night.


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## Franko

No gas is what it looks like. In fact, the first bead I ran I forgot to turn it on. After I turned it on, subsequent beads did not improve. It has to be a gas leak somewhere.

I'll recheck my gas line connections, but I'm pretty sure they are ok.

It is the same cylinder I was using with the Lincoln, so I don't think there is anything wrong with the gas. I haven't replenished it since I got the Hobart.

I'm sure the polarity is correct. That was the first thing I checked.

I was working inside my shop with no wind. There is a small fan turned way down low in the back of the shop, but barely a wiff of discernible air movement at the welding station. The TIG welds were done at the same place with no problems.
If breeze was the problem, I'd think the TIG would have shown it more as it seems more sensitive to wind.
I've MIG welded outside in a pretty good breeze and never had these kind of problems.

I use a flow meter which showed gas was flowing. I couldn't hear it at the nozzle, so it is possible it isn't making it to the nozzle. Usual gas flow is 20 cfm. I even tried cranking it up to 40 with no change.

I'll double check the whip connection. That's a good idea I didn't think of. I think I'll also check the gas hose and connections inside the welder. If That's it, it could explain why I was having trouble with the spool gun, too.

I was using argon with the spool gun when welding aluminum.

This was driving me crazy. I've always been pretty good at MIG.

Thanks for all the good ideas. You guys are the greatest.


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## brino

Hi Franko,

One more thought.....the last time I had a horrible time welding was just after I moved my Lincoln 180 for some remote welding. All I could make was a mess! I gave up on that project temporarily, and when I moved back to the shop I found a little plastic washer on the floor and immediately recognized it as the one that goes between the flow meter and the shield gas tank!

I had almost written it off to a shield gas issue due to wind.

I still cannot believe that Lincoln did not use a captive washer/seal at that gas joint.
Since then I've been fanatical about keeping track of that washer.
I really need to find/make a captive replacement.

-brino


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## gr8legs

Yeah, it looks like a 'no shield gas at the arc' problem - but y'all must be in really odd environments if you're using 20 cfm of shield gas.

That'd be enough to blow the arc out. Maybe you really mean 20 cf per hour? (cfh)

<grin>

Stu


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## Franko

yeah, Stu. That's probably what I meant. 

It's not my fault. I was tired. The sun was in my eyes. The neighbor's dog wouldn't stop barking.


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## brino

minutes, hours they all blur together......


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## Firestopper

If you can't hear the shielding gas at the nozzle then start tracing the hose line from the solenoid forward. Disconnect the line and check for flow at the solenoid then to the nipple going into the whip. if you have flow to the nipple, you'll need to check your liner. Also, as other have mentioned, check your polarity, it should be electrode positive for MIG welding.  Doses the solenoid "click" when you squeeze the trigger? It probably does if the flow meter activates. Should be a simple fix.


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## 18w

Here is a great site that will help you. https://www.youtube.com/user/weldingtipsandtricks
Looks to me like every one else says, lack of gas and or wrong polarity. Once you sort it out I would use slightly less gas, 15 to 18 cfh. No sense using more than needed given the cost these days.
Your TIG welds show signs of welding over impurities, too many amps and too much filler. When MIG welding practice on butt joints with  vee'd edges and fillet welds. Welding on top of a flat plate sometimes makes it difficult to set your parameters. Remember when you are actually welding something, it involves these type of joints more often than not.
Watch Jody's videos, there are a ton, and practice. practice, practice. If you know some one local to you that is a competent welder, ask if they will give you a few quick demos. Hands on practice with some one knowledgeable is the best way to learn  IMHO.

Darrell


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## chuck

Franko'
I have bought 3 of the hobart handler 175s and have the hobart 210 ironman. The hobart regulators are not reliable. Make sure the regulator is flowing by disconnecting the gas line from the welder. Sometimes you need to tap on the regulators to make them work. I live near you and am a welder. if you can use my assistance let me know. I am working in garland and get off work at 4:30 most days.


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## Franko

All great advise, Darrell. Laying rows of beads is a recommended exercise by Mr. Tig and Jody, too. I subscribe to them and have seen all of them. (not ChuckE, he likes the sound of his own voice way too much)

I suspect watching all those videos enabled me to have some success with the TIG. Several years ago, I purchased a Lincoln 250 squarewave TIG. I was never able to make even one successful weld with it and ended up giving up and selling it. All I learned to do was burn holes and grind tungsten.  It was embarrassing. I've never tried anything that I couldn't eventually figure out. TIG is one of the most difficult things I've ever tried.

I'm resolved to the reality that my TIG welds will never be as pretty as someone who does it every day. It's probably not possible for the occasional welder, such as myself. What I hope for is that, while they may not be perfectly stacked dimes, they will have good penetration and be sound.

Thanks for the head's up on amperage. I worked from the lower end of the recommended range (130-180 amps) to about 170 amps using 3/32 rod. The angle iron was 3/16". The material I will be welding is 1/4" and 3/8".

It's been a couple months since I practiced with the TIG, so I needed to make some bead rows to work on my right hand movement and torch speed. I have a very difficult time sliding my right hand, so my welds can be slanted and off line. I'm aware of the proper technique, but it is very difficult for me.

I have cut practice pieces that resemble the joints I need to make for my project. They will be ground with bevels and nice and shiny. I expect to spend most of a morning or afternoon until I'm comfortable that I won't mess up the pieces I've so carefully fabricated for my project. with great effort and expense. There are outside corners that will be beveled and weld like butt joints, lap joints and T-joints. There will be some drilled spot welds, too.

Due to the geometry of the thing I'm making and my primitive clamping fixture, I may have to make some climbing welds. I haven't tried that yet. I need to review Jody's and Mr. Tig's videos. Hopefully, I can figure how to clamp them so I can weld them horizontally. Or, get my MIG working properly. I can do vertical welds with it just fine.

This is a isometric of the project I'm doing. It is a stand for my someday to arrive PM1228 lathe. It's 42" x 18". Corner welds have to be one-sided on the outside corners because a big lower tool case fits inside and beads will interfere with the fit. They'll be beveled and clamped with about a tenth inch gap. I cut some 3 x 3 angle brackets for clamp up. The gussets on the right side won't be necessary, as I found a piece of 6 x 6 x 3/8" angle. Big leveling casters attach there.


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## Franko

chuck said:


> Franko'
> I have bought 3 of the hobart handler 175s and have the hobart 210 ironman. The hobart regulators are not reliable. Make sure the regulator is flowing by disconnecting the gas line from the welder. Sometimes you need to tap on the regulators to make them work. I live near you and am a welder. if you can use my assistance let me know. I am working in garland and get off work at 4:30 most days.



Thanks, Chuck. That's a very generous offer. I'd love to get some welding tips from a real welder person.

I don't use regulators. I have flow meters. The bead on the meter is rising, so I'm pretty sure it is passing gas. 

I had a golf tournament this morning, and as you know it was brutally hot all day, so I haven't looked at the gas connections this afternoon, yet. It was 70º at 8am with the dewpoint at 71º. Humidly was 98%. Mosquitoes were hatching right out of the air. It took me 3 hours to recover after I got home this afternoon.


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## 18w

Franko,
 Nothing to be embarrassed about. TIG welding Is like patting your head and rubbing your tummy at the same time. I think you will find welding up your brackets will produce better welds. Something about fillet versus flat plate welds. Conventional wisdom on TIG is 1 amp per .001" of material thickness. I find this to be too high on steel unless you have a large machine and a large torch. When you get up in the higher amp ranges you need large tungstens or they just ball up and melt away. Mig would be the preferred choice or even stick when welding 3/8" steel. Not that it can't be done though. Remember if you are using a 70,000psi rod, you will not need 100 % welds. A nice fillet with Tig with good penetration will do the job. Too much amperage is detrimental to a good tig weld as it tends to oxidize. 
 I no longer am required to weld at work as much, and it is just as well. Too many years of it has been hard on the eyesight. I feel your pain regarding only doing TIG welding sporadically. It takes a while for even a good TIG welder to get up to speed if it has been a while. 
 Keep studying and keep practicing. You will only get better.

Darrell


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## Franko

Thanks, Darrell. I got the TIG to weld aluminum as that is what I work with mostly. Everyone said don't try aluminum until you are proficient with steel, because aluminum multiplies all the difficulties. A well-done TIG weld is a thing of beauty.

I usually want to weld both sides. I have an inch on the bottom of the inside corners (where the extension force will be) so I plan to put a long tack there. I don't have to run the angles that support the bottom all the way to the corners.

I think I found the problem, thanks to all you guys. You are the best. A picture is worth a thousand words, so here. I suppose I would have eventually found this, but it hadn't occurred to me yet until I posted here. Once you are looking for it, it is pretty glaring.


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## Franko

This may not be an issue now that I've found the leak, but I've noticed that MIG welds tend to crater at the end of the bead. Is there a way to prevent this? Maybe back up just a little at the end?


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## 18w

Franko,
Glad it was a simple fix! As far as cratering, pause or back up slightly will help.  Investigate some weave techniques also.Same with starting a weld, it helps to back up slightly after initiating the arc. It helps to burn in the weld puddle as the weld starts out cold, so to speak.

Darrell


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## juiceclone

Just in case nobody else saw it...that's CFH .. not CFM. ......  CFM would drain a tank in short order.  Recommended flow is around .3 to .6 CFM..which translates to 12 CFH to 36 CFH.     The glass tube flow meter I have just has numbers on it with no designation, but I'm reasonably sure that "4" on it means .4 CFM


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## chuck

Franko,
 Yep, if the ball is rising gas is flowing, may need to pull the Mig gun and reseat it. if that does'nt work then a hose has come undone inside. Careful taking the cover off there are capacitors inside the cabinet.

 My brother in law has about the same size lathe, moved it about 20 foot a couple of weeks ago and tipped it over. His shop is on shiloh road just south of LBJ. I was not there when it happened, He has a couple of employees that made a mistake and over it went. 

On your diagram, cut the angle iron 3/8ths shorter on each end and weld on the outside. No need for beveling those joints. The weak link is the pin on the left. Instead of a single pin in the middle of the frame, how about a pin on each end with a short lenght of angle on both ends and a leveling bolt for each?
I will be out of town the next two weekends, Arkansas Memorial weekend and near Tyler the next. 

The picture is a 4000 lb ring roller head in the back of my truck, moved it with pipe and a crowbar, just take your time.


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## chuck

Franko said:


> This may not be an issue now that I've found the leak, but I've noticed that MIG welds tend to crater at the end of the bead. Is there a way to prevent this? Maybe back up just a little at the end?


Stop welding before you reach the end of your weld. Start at the other end of the weldment and weld towards where you ended the previous weld and overlap the two welds. 
Those welding leads work loose sometimes glad you found it.

Welding parameters for mig wire.

.030 mig wire limit is 14 gauge. General WPS, welding procedure specifications limit .030 wire to 14 ga steel. From my old miller welding calculator.

.035 wire 1/4 inch. wps limits .035 70s6 wire to single pass on a36 steel at 20 volts and 200 amps. General welding codes do allow 2 passes with 70s6 wire, but, the maganese in s6 wire reacts with carbon from both the a36 steel and the previous weld bead and can lead to centerline and under bead cracks.....caution is advised. 
From lincoln electric literature.


chuck


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## turnitupper




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## Franko

chuck said:


> On your diagram, cut the angle iron 3/8ths shorter on each end and weld on the outside. No need for beveling those joints. The weak link is the pin on the left. Instead of a single pin in the middle of the frame, how about a pin on each end with a short lenght of angle on both ends and a leveling bolt for each?
> I will be out of town the next two weekends, Arkansas Memorial weekend and near Tyler the next.



3/8"? Did you mean to say 3/8ths? That would be a heck of a gap to fill between two 1/4" pieces.

The bolt is a pivot point so I can level the stationary wheels using a couple of bolts shown on the drawing. My shop floor has a 1" in 12' slope. Bolting both ends would defeat that purpose. The single pin is a 1/2" bolt that will be welded to the angle. I may have room to weld the bolt to a rectangle of 3/8" bar and put it inside the lip of the cabinet at the bottom and out through a hole through the cabinet and the angle. 

I considered putting a couple more bolts on the ends and slots on the bar that holds the wheels to cinch it, but I fear that would take too much meat out of the 3/8" x 2" bar. The pivot bolt will always be cinched up tight and I believe the 1/2" bolt will withstand the shearing load. I expect the maximum load of cabinet, lathe and tools to not exceed 1200 pounds. 500 for the lathe, 200 for the tool chest and a generous 500 pounds for tooling and accessories in the cabinet drawers.

I've had my lathe and mill on wheels for 9 years. I'm pretty careful when I move them. Tumping one over would be a very bad thing, but I have to be able to move them.


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## Franko

Ok, while I have you guys attention, I have another question. I got one of those el cheapo HF welding tables. It's better than nothing and will have to do until I can make something more substantial.

The problem with it is that it is plated with something gold colored and is very reflective. I like to weld with good light, but my shop lights reflect off the table and activate my auto-darkening welding hood. I don't see any way to reduce the sensitivity of the hood lens. Is there a way to darken and dull the finish on the table short of grinding it and leaving it in the rain?

I have a less sensitive older auto darkening helmet that works find with my MIG, but doesn't darken when I use the TIG.


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## 18w

Franko said:


> Ok, while I have you guys attention, I have another question. I got one of those el cheapo HF welding tables. It's better than nothing and will have to do until I can make something more substantial.
> 
> The problem with it is that it is plated with something gold colored and is very reflective. I like to weld with good light, but my shop lights reflect off the table and activate my auto-darkening welding hood. I don't see any way to reduce the sensitivity of the hood lens. Is there a way to darken and dull the finish on the table short of grinding it and leaving it in the rain?
> 
> I have a less sensitive older auto darkening helmet that works find with my MIG, but doesn't darken when I use the TIG.


Franko,
It may be possible to remove the coating by soaking it  in a muratic acid solution.. I know muratic will remove chrome if the part is left to soak in it. Years ago I worked on concrete pumps and we had some spendy parts soaking in muratic acid to remove some concrete that had gotten by some seals. It cleaned the parts alright, right on down to bare metal after it disolved the chrome. Oops.
I have a love hate relationship with auto darkening helmets and I have some expensive ones. Are you sure you are not getting reflection from your ceiling lights directly on one of the sensors? Do your helmets have sensitivity adjustments?

Darrell


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## turnitupper

turnitupper said:


> View attachment 103818


Adding lost text. Flow meter to put over mig nozzle [not too hot] .Will give pretty accurate flow rate right at nozzle. They have saved me a lot of gas in three years . I am cheap! Especially handy if you ,like me, have dial gauges. Bought on aliexpress 3 years+ ago for ~$50 for twenty units. Don't let welder friends see them or you will end up with only a few yourself. I have 5 left, well 3, two died from heavy steel and heavy boot.


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## Franko

I was curious what that was, turnitupper. Not a bad gizmo.


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## Franko

18w said:


> Franko,
> It may be possible to remove the coating by soaking it  in a muratic acid solution.. I know muratic will remove chrome if the part is left to soak in it. Years ago I worked on concrete pumps and we had some spendy parts soaking in muratic acid to remove some concrete that had gotten by some seals. It cleaned the parts alright, right on down to bare metal after it disolved the chrome. Oops.
> I have a love hate relationship with auto darkening helmets and I have some expensive ones. Are you sure you are not getting reflection from your ceiling lights directly on one of the sensors? Do your helmets have sensitivity adjustments?
> 
> Darrell



I was never any good at flipping a regular welding hood down. The first one I go was a HF special. It worked pretty well but occasionally I get a brief flash. That would add up fast for a welder person that welds every day. But, sometimes it wouldn't darken when I was using the TIG, and I found out that there are helmets made specifically for TIG. It works very well with the TIG. I've never seen a flash. I think there are 3 sensitivity settings. I have on lowest setting but reflected light off the table still activates the shade.

I ordered the new one on recommendation from some guys at a welding forum I frequented.

The muratic acid is a good suggestion. I used it to de-rush some very rusty stuff when I rebuilt an old Willies Jeep. The stuff looked sandblasted when it came out.


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## 18w

Franko,
 One last idea that may keep you from using the acid. Years ago we used a spray on anti spatter product that dried flat black. You would have to reapply occasionally. I, for the life of me, can't remember what company made it. You might ask your welding supplier if they know about it.

Darrell


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## Franko

I ran a few test beads this morning. It looks like it's all working as it should.
They are done with an oval weave on the same grinder brushed piece of angle.
I see a little of the contamination, but I didn't want to grind to keep the conditions the same on both tests.
First bead is top left, going down on subsequent welds. Then across to the right and down.
No cratering at the ends of the welds. I backed up just a little at the ends.
I ran amperage and feed recommended on the chart on the machine, 6-60 with about 1/2" stick out.
I tried 5-50 on the last 6 beads and I don't see any difference. Gas was set at 19 CFH.
They look pretty good to me.


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## shoeboxpaul

Franko,
You may have checked this already but, is the tip even with the cone?  If the tip is recessed, it can cause issues. Slight stick out is better. I am not a pro welder but, I did this on a little Harbor Freight 110V  MIG and it vastly improved the results. Until I did, the "sound of bacon" was not there.


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## Jeephead

Franko said:


> I ran a few test beads this morning. It looks like it's all working as it should.
> They are done with an oval weave on the same grinder brushed piece of angle.
> I see a little of the contamination, but I didn't want to grind to keep the conditions the same on both tests.
> First bead is top left, going down on subsequent welds. Then across to the right and down.
> No cratering at the ends of the welds. I backed up just a little at the ends.
> I ran amperage and feed recommended on the chart on the machine, 6-60 with about 1/2" stick out.
> I tried 5-50 on the last 6 beads and I don't see any difference. Gas was set at 19 CFH.
> They look pretty good to me.
> 
> View attachment 104134


My experience with AL. Do not use grinder or wire brush. They imbed impurities in the base metal and float up when welding. I use die grinder or cutters only, wipe with acetone. I always check gas flow by putting nozzle in water and hope to get bubbles to confirm adequate flow, so many things can screw this up. Good bubbles = good flow but sometimes too much.


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## Franko

shoeboxpaul said:


> Franko,
> You may have checked this already but, is the tip even with the cone?  If the tip is recessed, it can cause issues. Slight stick out is better. I am not a pro welder but, I did this on a little Harbor Freight 110V  MIG and it vastly improved the results. Until I did, the "sound of bacon" was not there.



My contact tip was a little recessed in the cup. I got a two-pack of spare cups yesterday and used my lathe to cut one down about 1/8". The tip sticks out about a tenth, now.



Jeephead said:


> My experience with AL. Do not use grinder or wire brush. They imbed impurities in the base metal and float up when welding. I use die grinder or cutters only, wipe with acetone. I always check gas flow by putting nozzle in water and hope to get bubbles to confirm adequate flow, so many things can screw this up. Good bubbles = good flow but sometimes too much.



Jeephead, I got a few stainless brushes when I was trying to solder aluminum as was recommended by the maker of the solder. When I was experimenting with the spool gun I used them to clean the aluminum, plus a wipe with acetone.


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## rick9345

Good info
well followed
nice to solve problems,well done
Good Tig welding comes with proper torch angle(and clean,clean). Hard to control , when not welding frequently, penetration over appearance for me. Usually my last weld of the day is the best looking one.
Next time I weld learning curve starts over.
The black spots on the tig welds(steel) is silicon/impurities floating up and fusing.


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## Franko

Thanks, Rick. No kidding about the last weld. That's the way with most of my projects. By the time I finish, I've almost figured out how to do it. 

The impurities are weird. It is the first time I've seen that on my welds. I even saw some on the last MIG welds where I had ground the metal. I'm usually pretty good about cleaning the metal before I weld.


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## Hannadog

I have a Thermal Arc 211 Inverter TIG/Stick welder that I bought to leave and develop my skill in TIG welding. It worked fine at first. The torch was a large 26 size and for what I was looking to do, I moved to a smaller 17 size. 
I immediately noted that my electrode would become red hot, the arc was diffused and wandering, lots of contamination in the weld, etc. I blamed me as I was just learning but after lots of reading, I decided gas was not getting to the torch head. I had flow from the regulator to the inverter but not the torch. No obstructions in the torch lines. 
I took it to the approved warranty center. they discovered the gas line inside the welder was too long. When I attached the new 17 torch and tighten the fitting, the gas line behind the fitting twisted onto it's self and completely blocked the gas flow. They cut the line down and reattached fittings. Torch works perfectly now and I don't feel like a total idiot.  Still need a lot of seat time but my skill is improving because the equipment is working properly now.


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## machinist18

Franko said:


> I traded in my old faithful Lincoln 175 MIG last summer and thought I upgraded to a Hobart Handler 190 with a spool gun, hoping I could weld aluminum with it, having tried a Lincoln 225 TIG a few years earlier and failed miserably.
> 
> The first month I had the new Hobart, I practiced with the spool gun on aluminum and wasn't very impressed with it. It was a beast and very difficult to control and I melted a lot of aluminum.Isost faith and  purchased a Miller Syncromatic 210 and practiced with it for  few weeks, giving TIG another shot. I practiced with it for several weeks and got distracted on a pressing job.
> 
> Meanwhile, the Hobart MIG sat idle for a few months. I didn't try welding steel with because I didn't think it would be a problem.
> 
> I had a project to weld some big steel, so I fired up the new Hobart Handler.
> I fiddled with it for a couple hours and didn't even come close to making a good weld. I gave up, put it away and did the job with the Miller TIG.
> 
> The problem I was having was pourous and pitted welds that were just stacking up and not blending on the edges.
> 
> I have another project where I'm welding a heavy duty steel. I always made good welds with my Lincoln 175, so I thought I'd give MIG another try. I was sure I could figure out whats gone haywire. I spent a couple hours this afternoon and the results were dismal. I didn't even come close to making a good weld.
> 
> I tried everything. Check the gas flow, hoses and connections, clean the tip, high amps, low amps, fast wire feed, slow and in between. Nothing worked.
> It didn't sound right no matter what adjustment I made. It was the old bacon sizzle, but it was very loud and aggressive, maybe like a string if fire crackers going off. It was like it was blowing it out.
> 
> I'm using .030 solid wire with CO2/Argon. I used .023 with the old Lincoln.
> 
> The welds all stacked up too high and didn't penetrate around the edges.
> 
> I'm at my wits end. I could sure use some advise.
> 
> Here is a pic of the last of the test beads. These represent the gammot of adjustments, yet pretty much all the same ugly. These represent amperage between 40 and 70 amps and wire feed between 3 and 7, It's on 3/16" hot roll angle. I used a high speed wire brush to clean up the steel, and even wiped them down with acetone.
> 
> View attachment 103777


 I'm wondering if the gas valve in the welder is malfunctioning and not letting the gas flow.


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## Franko

It was a simple fix, Machinist18. The stinger connection was not fully pushed in.


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## chuck

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...ielded-Innershield-InnershieldNR-5/c32400.pdf


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## chuck

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-u...-theory/Pages/evolution-fcawg-electrodes.aspx


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## chuck

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/ltw1tri.pdf
Frank, outside corner shown on page four


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## psychodelicdan

Frank
Great that it was a simple fix. My next suggestion would have been one that I feel to be a bit odd but has saved the day a few times. I've  been welding for a long time and have for a a reason I still can't wrap my head around. Have " fixed" several welders that are running   so badly that nobody will use them simply by putting on a new nozzle. Sounds way to simple and the old ones can look very serviceable, but the proof is in the pudding (what ever that phrase meens ) and put a high dollar machine  back on line. Might help one of you some day. Happy welding. 

Master of unfinished projects


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## Franko

Thanks, Chuck. That's perfect. I've saved it and put it into my folder of manuals. 

Structurally, what I was doing is basically a corner joint, welding into a 45º bevel, just with a lot unnecessary grinding.

I actually considered doing a corner joint, but didn't know what it was called. I think I opted not to because the right side angle is 5" that joins with the 3" sides. It didn't occur to me that I could have cut a 3" notch.

I may be stuck with doing it the way I've started it, because my parts are cut and finished for the other joint. Holes are drilled and corners rounded at great effort, and the lengths of the side pieces are cut to allow the tenth inch gap, making them too short for a corner joint.

I'll know a better way next time.


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## Millalot

Franko said:


> Here is a pic of the last of the test beads. These represent the gammot of adjustments, yet pretty much all the same ugly. These represent amperage between 40 and 70 amps and wire feed between 3 and 7, It's on 3/16" hot roll angle. I used a high speed wire brush to clean up the steel, and even wiped them down with acetone.



The pics of the welds indicate two things , 1/ lack of gas, 2/ lack of power.
In the case of power your welder rectifier could be damaged and you are not able to get full smooth dc power and/or you are getting ac volts mixed with the dc volts.
Your welder is not all that large to be used with aluminium welding for good results, having to use small diameter wire requires some skill in the operation.
You did not say whether you were using spool gun or torch for these welds?

Millalot.


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## Franko

Millalot said:


> The pics of the welds indicate two things , 1/ lack of gas, 2/ lack of power.
> ...
> You did not say whether you were using spool gun or torch for these welds?
> 
> Millalot.



Thanks for the reply, Millalot. I solved the problem.  I was using the torch. The torch hose connector was not pushed all the way in, so gas was leaking there. Once I pushed in the connector all the way, the welds started looking pretty good.

The problem I was having with the spool gun was I couldn't control the heat and the aluminum was sagging on the back side of the weld. I sure I had the welder settings correct. Some of the welds looked ok on the top, so I think I probably had the hose plugged in all the way when I was using the spool gun.

I never tried any aluminum MIG welds with the gas turned off, so I don't know if aluminum looks the same as steel without shielding gas.


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## markknx

Franko,
your Tig welds way back there lokk like they are good just not good looking. that is where the practice, practice ...... comes in.
Can I ask why you use MIG? do you weld a lot of thin stuff with the wire feeder? if not or since you have the TIG for thin stuff now. You should Consider switching to flux core. It is much better for heavier stuff, plus wind is not an issue, no dragging gas bottles. Just throwing that out there.

Your welding is looking a lot better with the gas
Mark


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## Franko

I had a terrible experience with stick welding when I was in college. I got my first GMAW rig when I was restoring an old Willys Jeep about 30 years age and having to repair a lot of rust on the body. It was a Marquet 90 or something. It is a miricle I could weld at all with it because it wouldn't feed wire steady.

About 10 years later, I got a Lincoln 175 MIG and was pretty impressed with how clean the welds looked — and how easy it is. I've heard that you shouldn't MIG a trailer, but I know the first utility trailer I got was welded with a MIG because there were wires sticking out of the some of the welds. Miserable craftsmanship, they didn't even de-burr the cuts.

I've built a 4x8 light weight utility trailer to pull with my Honda CRV and a boat trailer for my Bass Tracker. Neither of those have fallen apart, so I must have done something right. I was welding 16 ga C purlin on the boat trailer and 1/8 angle on the utility trailer. I had a friend who is a genuine welder to weld the suspension parts for both of them. I made the suspension parts for the boat trailer with 3/16 angle and it bolts to the C-channel frame. It can be moved to dial in the center of balance and spreads the stress on the C-channel.

I make a lot of things for my clients with aluminum, so I want to be able to stick some things together instead of having to drill, tap and screw everything.

I purchased a rather expensive Lincoln 250 GTAW rig about 9 years ago and failed miserably with it, gave up and sold it. Last summer, I traded the Lincoln 175 for the Hobart Handler 190 with the spool gun (none was available for my Lincoln  175). Disappointed in my success with aluminum with the spool gun, I got a Hobart EZ TIG. It was malfunctioning (it wouldn't auto start), although I was able to weld with it by touch starting. Encouraged by success, I returned it and upgraded to the Miller Syncrowave 210 and I love it. It is simple, fairly automatic and makes pretty good welds. It can be upgraded with a chip to allow higher frequency and pulse.

So, to answer your question (if you are still reading after all that), I had the MIG first. I've tried flux core welding but I prefer gas shielding because it looks better and is cleaner. I don't much like spatter. I absolutely love my Miller TIG welder. If I had to give up one (and I've considered it) I'd sell the MIG and do everything with the TIG,  but there is almost no re-sale value for a Hobart Handler 190. It is a year old, I gave about $850 for and I've seen a couple on Craig's List last for several weeks at $400. I rarely weld anything thicker than 3/16.


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## FREDROSSE

Just a late comment I experienced last month, same conditions giving lousy welds as shown on your pictures.  Checked and checked everything, gas flowing as it should......   Finally looked at the gas cylinder, it was Nitrogen.  The supplier had just given me the wrong replacement when I bought the gas, same as I always had for several years.  Never occurred to me that the gas might be wrong.


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## smallfly

Franko said:


> I had a terrible experience with stick welding when I was in college. I got my first GMAW rig when I was restoring an old Willys Jeep about 30 years age and having to repair a lot of rust on the body. It was a Marquet 90 or something. It is a miricle I could weld at all with it because it wouldn't feed wire steady.
> 
> About 10 years later, I got a Lincoln 175 MIG and was pretty impressed with how clean the welds looked — and how easy it is. I've heard that you shouldn't MIG a trailer, but I know the first utility trailer I got was welded with a MIG because there were wires sticking out of the some of the welds. Miserable craftsmanship, they didn't even de-burr the cuts.
> 
> I've built a 4x8 light weight utility trailer to pull with my Honda CRV and a boat trailer for my Bass Tracker. Neither of those have fallen apart, so I must have done something right. I was welding 16 ga C purlin on the boat trailer and 1/8 angle on the utility trailer. I had a friend who is a genuine welder to weld the suspension parts for both of them. I made the suspension parts for the boat trailer with 3/16 angle and it bolts to the C-channel frame. It can be moved to dial in the center of balance and spreads the stress on the C-channel.
> 
> I make a lot of things for my clients with aluminum, so I want to be able to stick some things together instead of having to drill, tap and screw everything.
> 
> I purchased a rather expensive Lincoln 250 GTAW rig about 9 years ago and failed miserably with it, gave up and sold it. Last summer, I traded the Lincoln 175 for the Hobart Handler 190 with the spool gun (none was available for my Lincoln  175). Disappointed in my success with aluminum with the spool gun, I got a Hobart EZ TIG. It was malfunctioning (it wouldn't auto start), although I was able to weld with it by touch starting. Encouraged by success, I returned it and upgraded to the Miller Syncrowave 210 and I love it. It is simple, fairly automatic and makes pretty good welds. It can be upgraded with a chip to allow higher frequency and pulse.
> 
> So, to answer your question (if you are still reading after all that), I had the MIG first. I've tried flux core welding but I prefer gas shielding because it looks better and is cleaner. I don't much like spatter. I absolutely love my Miller TIG welder. If I had to give up one (and I've considered it) I'd sell the MIG and do everything with the TIG,  but there is almost no re-sale value for a Hobart Handler 190. It is a year old, I gave about $850 for and I've seen a couple on Craig's List last for several weeks at $400. I rarely weld anything thicker than 3/16.


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## smallfly

frankc-i  fought  a  brand  new miller  syncro  wave  185  amp  welder  for 2  years  trying  to  learn  to  tig  weld  steel.  i   finally   solved  problem with  help  of  miller  factory.   .  i  know  what  frustation  is. the  welder    was  ''out  of  adustment  when  i  received it  from  the  first  day.  u  just   put  one  of  these  welders  on a freight  truck  or  your  private  trail er  and  drive  or  bounce  down  a  rough  and  i  will tell u  what  can  happen  as  far  as   ''adjust  ment''   to  ur  welder. it  aint pretty  but  u  can  solve  the  problem  urself  in  20  minutes  with  common  screwdriver     call me   in  mt.  at  406  596  7960  u  asked  for  help-here  it  is  re  ''steve  in  mt..  re  ''SMALLFLY.


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## Franko

smallfly said:


> frankc-i  ... it  aint pretty  but  u  can  solve  the  problem  urself  in  20  minutes  with  common  screwdriver     call me   in  mt.  at  406  596  7960  u  asked  for  help-here  it  is  re  ''steve  in  mt..  re  ''SMALLFLY.



Thanks for the offer, Smallfry. I have no issues with my new Miller Syncrowave 210. The Hobart EXZ TIG that I returned was the one that was malfunctioning. Miller technical support was very helpful and helped me work through a diagnosis that included sending me a new torch and some tungstens, which didn't solve the problem of no auto-start. There is a Miller certified repair center close to me. I actually took the EZ TIG in for warranty repair, but changed my mind overnight and picked it back up and returned it.

I ordered the EZ TIG from CyberWeld. It arrived all dented up for which they gave me a discount after the fact, and gave me a little bit of a deal on the Miller 210 upgrade.

I doubt there was anything wrong with the original Lincoln Squarewae 250. It was before uTube was filled with welding instructions and I just wasn't up to figuring it out all my own. I told the guy I sold it to that I'd never made a successful weld with it and I never heard back from him, so I assume that in the hands of an experienced welder, it was fine.


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## markknx

Franko,
Sorry if my post sounded like I was picking on your welds or welders. I read my post a bit ago and with my typos it could have been taken that way, not my intent. by your response I am guessing you did not take it wrong. I was first trying to compliment your tig welds in that although they are not Mr. Tig pretty they look as though they are strong welds. I brought up the Flux core because I meet many people that don't use flux core because they think it is hard, or has a trick or something. also one does not need the gas, and on the smaller machines it increases the thicker range of what you can weld. but it hurts on the thin stuff. As far as not welding trailers with MIG never heard that one. It would also appear neither have most trailer makers. I learned to weld on MIG in a structural and miscellaneous metal shot, we welded most everything with MIG. Once in a blue moon we would be spec'ed to use flux core or 70xx rod (now I use mostly 7018 at work) But the shop had big machines.
At home I have a older Lincoln SP125 Plus (the plus is a continuous control on wire and amps) I use for general, and quick jobs, and a Lincoln square wave 255 if I need to weld heavy stuff I use it for stick. Or for smaller stuff. TIG. More and more I take the time to set up the Tig just because it is so much nicer to not get spattered all over. Very nice machine just big. some day I will try one of them new fancy tig machines with more stuff I don't know how to use.
Mark


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## Franko

Mark, I read no ill will in your post. You were interested enough to respond and I always appreciate that. I took what you said as a compliment. Any criticism or comment is welcome. I'm trying to learn.

I'm sure fabrication shops use larger and more powerful MIG welders than mine. Almost all automated welding machines use MIG. I've seen em weld bridge sections together with wire that looked 1/2" diameter on tv.

My TIG is hooked up to stick weld. I need to make time to learn to do that someday. 

I really like arc welding. There is something empowering about working with a bit heat that is hotter than the surface of the sun.


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## markknx

Franko, no bs I wanted to weld since I was a kid man you are right about empowering. The stuff I do in my garage/shop to me is just so cool. Since I was about 18-19 I have worked with steel for a living in one way or another. I love that kind of work(don't always love the people I have to deal with, Or the place I have to go) With about Ten more years left of Ironworking I am building my skill and shop to keep me moving once I retire.
Speaking of hot metal I am trying to add some smith work to my metal working skills. And let me tell you my blacksmith work looks way bad.
Mark


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## Franko

Yeah, isn't it fun? Welding is the ultimate joinery. Literally merging the molecules of two pieces.


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