# 9" South Bend Lathe



## Lordbeezer

picked up a 9" lathe.serial number 43892 nar 9. Built between April and June 1929.predates a model c by a few years.trying to find out what model or catalog number it is.south bend is cast in right front of bed.covered in surface rust cleaning the bed shows scrapping marks entire length.in pieces now for electrocis bath.missing tailstock and gear cover...came with massive 1/4 hp cast iron 2phase motor on counter shaft assy.any ideas of model number? Thanks Phil


----------



## Glenn Brooks

My 1922 (edit: actually made in early 1925, I was confused on the date)-  SB 9 has a South Bend brass information plate riveted to the end cover on the end of the headstock. The plate is titled "Size of Lathe" and has the catalog number and bed length on it.  Barely visible lower left end edge,of the first picture. More clearly shown on the second photo. 

Probably you would have seen the plate, if it survived on your machine.  If not, perhaps one of,the SB Guru's can identify the catalog number by the serial number.

Alternatively, look for a cat number that corresponds to your date of manufacture.






Glenn


----------



## Lordbeezer

Gear cover is missing .yours is a wide 9 correct?..I know pictures would help a lot .as soon as it's cleaned up I'll post some..yours looks real nice.thanks


----------



## Charles Spencer

Glenn Brooks said:


> My 1922 SB 9



I love the look of that lathe.  And only five more years until it's a century old.  Neat!


----------



## silverhawk

Lordbeezer said:


> picked up a 9" lathe.serial number 43892 nar 9. Built between April and June 1929.predates a model c by a few years.trying to find out what model or catalog number it is.south bend is cast in right front of bed.covered in surface rust cleaning the bed shows scrapping marks entire length.in pieces now for electrocis bath.missing tailstock and gear cover...came with massive 1/4 hp cast iron 2phase motor on counter shaft assy.any ideas of model number? Thanks Phil



That will probably be a model 22 of some sort. My January 1930 is a 22-YB, commonly called a wide 9, heavy 9, or a junior. I have pictures somewhere out here of mine, yours will probably be the same. If it has the original black finish, do not remove that. It is very durable. Have you picked up the "serial number" card from grizzly? It is well worth it. Mine was sold January 24, 1930, serial number 47049.

One other thought. The 9" lathes you also reference, or the model c, came later in the late thirties/ early forties, but we're a completely different animal. Yours will probably have more in common with a heavy 10 than a 9" workshop lathe. The gears, bed, headstock, cross slides, tailstock, etc.... None of that is interchangeable with your 9.

I posted pictures of mine back in November of 2015 on my blog, along with the serial card from grizzly if you are interested.  http://www.silverhawk.net/ .


----------



## Glenn Brooks

silverhawk said:


> If it has the original black finish, do not remove that. It is very durable. Have you picked up the "serial number" card from grizzly? One other thought. The 9" lathes you also reference, or the model c, came later in the late thirties/ early forties, but we're a completely different animal. Yours will probably have more in common with a heavy 10 than a 9" workshop lathe. The gears, bed, headstock, cross slides, tailstock, etc.... None of that is interchangeable with your 9 .



Lordbreezer,

Yes, mine is the earlier version of the 9" - what some folks call a 'wide 9'. Although I think this is a colliqual term, as South Bend did not name it this - also never used the term 'Heavy 10' in their literature.  I've been told the name comes from the wider bed of their pre -1930's 9" series. And indeed parts are apparently not very interchangeable.

One interesting about these early lathes. What Silverhawk said about the original black finish.  The finish is actually what was known as 'Japaning' in the early 1900's.  The name came from imported black lacquered antiques from Japan - very popular in the US and England from the 1880's  to 1920's. Henry Ford developed an industrial production method to undercoat Model T fords with this finish - and it carried over to other things, such as machine tools.

However, instead of lacquer, the Japaning finish on these early day South Bend lathes was made by melting a mineral known as Gilsonite or mineralized asphaltium, then thinning with turpentine and linseed oil; then adding 3% lamp black to produce a liquid finish. This was painted onto the lathe, then baked at 400 degrees until dried, then repeated three times to build the coat. When subjected to heat, the liquid recryatalizes and encases the metal casting in its natural, mineralized  state - which is nearly impervious to oxidation , aka rusting. Stuff lasts forever and protects the underlying iron/steel from rust remarkably well.

Now, some time around 1925, oil based paints started to be used, and Asphaltium went by the way side. 

So, if you have it on your lathe you might consider retaining it, or restoring. Liquid form of Gilsonite is still available as a special order from wherever it is mined in Utah or Wyoming.

Glenn


----------



## silverhawk

Lordbeezer;

I am finally got to a point I could post a picture of mine - hopefully it will match what you have.  My 22-YB lathe is a 9" with a 36" bed (it's how South Bend measured their lathes at the time, where now the tradition is the distance between centers). It did not have the same QCGB (Quick Change Gear Box) that Glenn's has (I am a bit jealous of that one).  Mine has threading capabilities all through change gears.  Here are some pictures for you to compare yours with :











Mine is as simple as can be.  My serial card from Grizzly is :






Note the lack of information on it.  After South Bend changed from ledgers to serial cards for keeping track of the lathes in the mid to late 40's, they later tried to translate from the ledgers to the cards for older sales.  It means your serial card won't have a lot of detail, but it ties that serial number to a catalog number, which was most beneficial for me. They were kind enough to have the ledger entry for me, too, which was a bonus :






Mine was sold to the Salt Lake Hardware Company on January 24, 1930. When you can post pictures, we'd love to see them!


----------



## Lordbeezer

I can only wish mine was like y'alls.nothing wrong with the "regular " 9" though..has factory gray paint.found  B 100 NK stamped on right rear way.has a y banjo instead of straight.early front oilers on headstock.2 square head bolts to lock compound.will take pictures tomorrow of parts.silverhawk.saw your lathe on your site..your lathe and Glenn's are very nice..thanks for your help..Phil


----------



## Glenn Brooks

Yours looks very similar to mine. Maybe a few differences on the front of the apron.

Yours should clean up nicely and provide great service once you get it back operational. The old style split bearings that hold the spindle in the headstock are very easy to take apart and replace if needed.  Very likely you could shim and scrape your existing bearings, if anything is worn to badly.  If it were me, I would replace the tiny oil cups atop the bearings, with a couple of lunkenheimer  style  drip oilers, that you can purchase on line.  Gives you a lot more oil holding and librication capacity than those little git oilers in your photos.

I think it would be interesting to take some actual measurements across the width of the ways and compare that to the later model SB 9's - just to see how different these actually are.

Here's the card I got with my SB 9.  This came from the factory , apparently is the inspection /QC card from final assembly.  I also have the  original bill of sale, where the first owner purchased the lathe from Petrine Machinery, a local Seattle hardware and machinery supplier back in 1925. I bought the machine from the guy's grandson, found out it's been in the one  family since new - and only used for a few years before going into storage.   So never had to chase down manufacture date. As far as wear goes - there isn't any! Well, there is a little bit of wear on the ways - some of the flaking is partially worn off in places.  Tsk, tsk.




The real amazing thing about this lathe is that it sat on Craig's list for weeks.  But was covered in dust, dried machine oil, and sawdust so nobody went to look at it.  I passed it up several times, then finally looked closely at the on line photos out of frustration at not finding  a decent machine for sale, at the time.  Caught a glimmer of flaking in the photos and went to see it person. Couldn't believe what condition it was in - underneath all the decades of cob webs and dust.

The original owner used it mostly for woodworking - I think the combination of sawdust and machine oil made a terrific preservative.  Haven't got it running yet, need to build up or buy a countershaft to mount an electric motor - the grandson - by now retired, took it to the dump a few years ago as "it was collecting cob webs" in his garage!  Aaarrrghh.

-glenn


----------



## Lordbeezer

It's nice to know the history of a machine..I know the history on my 11" Sheldon from 42 till now..after seeing y'alls lathes wish the guys pouring the mold at south bend would've poured a little extra.mighta ended up like yours..measured the bed on mine..it's 6" wide.somewhat thinner than y'alls.thanks


----------



## Lordbeezer

Took couple pictures of took apart lathe


----------



## silverhawk

Lordbeezer said:


> View attachment 243959
> View attachment 243960
> View attachment 243961
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took couple pictures of took apart lathe


Oh, she is going to be beautiful!

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


----------



## Lordbeezer

Thanks..trying to trade for another one..


----------



## Glenn Brooks

Wow, if those scraping marks are original, you wouldn't go wrong keeping it.  Means the bed is pristine with no wear - meaning it's a high precision machine.  Most are worn out, tired and long ago past being precise machines.  It's super rare to find an old machine in good condition.

Glenn


----------



## Lordbeezer

Yes on original.after removing much rust I was surprised to see scraping marks.their even better under slide.solid 100 percent..leadscrew and nuts look new.friend I got it from said it was so rusty when he got it 15-20 years ago he didn't part it out.threw it in barn..just goes to show.don't judge that book..haven't found any worn parts yet.still have to find tailstock.gear cover.and back gear covers. Thanks Phil


----------



## Lordbeezer

Pressed spindle out today .journals and spindle look real good.


----------

