# PM-836S



## Hunter9173 (Dec 7, 2020)

I’m having trouble finding info on this PM-836S. I spoke with Precision Matthews on the phone and they told me they never sold a PM-836S. They did say however they prototyped a PM-836S and decided not to go with it. After they were done with the machine they sold it off on Ebay.

If anyone knows who made this mill please let me know so I can track down some info. If more photos are needed I can get them.


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## 7milesup (Dec 7, 2020)

May I ask why?
It was one prototype for PM which is now floating around there somewhere.  Why not go with a current model?
As far as who makes it, Precision Matthews contracts to factories in China or Taiwan for them to manufacture products to PM's specs.  Matt (from PM) has a very close hand in how the mfgs work with him.  Some of his products are unique to PM, as in the PM833 I believe is a PM offering only.  I am probably wrong but I am sticking with it.


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 8, 2020)

Because I have it. It seems like a good machine just generally curious about it. Also I don’t see any oiler cups, grease/oil fittings on the machine. Any ideas?


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## macardoso (Dec 8, 2020)

Well that's pretty cool. I think you're stuck working with PM to get the info. I bet they never published it. It is probably their prerogative to decide if they want to provide you with design documentation for a "product" that they never sold. This might become an undocumented machine that you'll need to learn the workings of yourself.


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 8, 2020)

That was I was thinking but figure I would throw it out there to see if there was more than one made. Wanted to pick their brains. From the pictures do you see where I would add oil for the spindle?

I’m very green to machine work and know very little but have always wanted to learn. I figure just diving in head first as I’m a hands on person.


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## 7milesup (Dec 8, 2020)

Sorry.  I thought you were looking for one/it.  My apologies. 
Nice looking mill there.


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## wrmiller (Dec 8, 2020)

Hunter9173 said:


> That was I was thinking but figure I would throw it out there to see if there was more than one made. Wanted to pick their brains. From the pictures do you see where I would add oil for the spindle?
> 
> I’m very green to machine work and know very little but have always wanted to learn. I figure just diving in head first as I’m a hands on person.



Most machines like this (including my PM935) hold the spindle in greased bearings. There is no oil in the head.

It does look like a nice little mill, but as others have said, you may be on your own here. Sounds like you should be up for it though.


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 8, 2020)

Thank you for the info on the spindle. I’m thinking about taking it apart to know how it works. Are there any articles I can read about general knowledge to know about when taking a machine apart?

Usually I just take a bunch of photos to remember how to put it back together correctly.


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## mksj (Dec 8, 2020)

No reason to take it apart if there is not any problems, the bearings are greased so should last many hours and the mill looks lightly used. If the bearings need to be repacked, using the proper grease and not over packing the bearings is important. If I recall it is something like 30% or slightly less. It looks like a one off prototype or they get in models to evaluate and then sell. I have seen a few other one-off machines that they have sold.


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## macardoso (Dec 8, 2020)

I'd message PM (@qualitymachinetools) on here to see if they be willing to give you a little support in good faith. They might not have manuals or anything like that made for a product they never sold, but there might be some assembly drawings, exploded parts diagrams, or something along those lines to help you out.


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## ptrotter (Dec 8, 2020)

Looks like a pretty nice mill.  I would call them and get hold of Matt directly and talk to him.  He may remember something about the machine that the others there aren't aware of if it was a one-off eval.


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 8, 2020)

Thank you for the reply’s. I will take your advice and not take it apart. I will need to adjust the gibs a little bit. I will try and document it so I can get advice if I’m doing it wrong.

I think the table is sagging when it’s far left and far right. What would y’all say is a good tolerance to get the table and knee to?


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 11, 2020)

made my first chips ever!
I need to get a dial indicator to tram the head in. Any recommendations for brand or model to look for?


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## Pcmaker (Dec 12, 2020)

I recommend the Edge technologies tramming tool. Makes tramming very easy.


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## Rifleman1384 (Dec 12, 2020)

Congrats on the machine, I looked at the Edge Technologies tram gauge and several other brands after I got my mill setup. I decided since I have a mill to just try and make one. It was my first project and works well. I set it up so I can move the indicators apart at 3,4,5 and 6 inches. Nothing like needing a tool and making it for yourself.

Steve


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 12, 2020)

Rifleman1384 said:


> Congrats on the machine, I looked at the Edge Technologies tram gauge and several other brands after I got my mill setup. I decided since I have a mill to just try and make one. It was my first project and works well. I set it up so I can move the indicators apart at 3,4,5 and 6 inches. Nothing like needing a tool and making it for yourself.
> 
> Steve
> 
> ...





Rifleman1384 said:


> Congrats on the machine, I looked at the Edge Technologies tram gauge and several other brands after I got my mill setup. I decided since I have a mill to just try and make one. It was my first project and works well. I set it up so I can move the indicators apart at 3,4,5 and 6 inches. Nothing like needing a tool and making it for yourself.
> 
> Steve
> 
> ...



I might give it a go making one. Recommendations on the dial indicators for a project of this type?
If I can’t pull off the job I will definitely look into the edge technologies tramming tool.

Also what size/type endmill is a good general purpose for a machine the size of mine? The choices seem to be endless. One 5/16 endmill came with the purchase of the mill. It’s dull and chipped out on the edges.


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## wrmiller (Dec 12, 2020)

The work you do will (should?) determine the sizes of cutters you use. Some folks here buy small mills and try using 3/4" cutters (just an example). Then they complain about lack of torque, surface finish, etc., etc..

I do lots of small work on my 935, so most of my cutters are 3/8" and smaller. I do have a handful of 1/2" cutters, and I think I even have a 5/8" shoved in a drawer somewhere. I like to use roughers for those rare times when I need to take deeper cuts, like making fixtures and whatnot. Roughers, or corn cob cutters (as some call them) are good at taking larger cuts without beating your machine to death.

But this is all just my opinion though, and worth every penny you paid for it. 

Enjoy your new mill!


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 14, 2020)

Tonight I adjusted the gibs on the machine. The knee only moves .001 and when locked up that is cut in half.

The saddle was out about .007. I was able to get it down to .002 and still feel smooth and not to tight.

Table is with in .002 and feels a little tighter.

I think the head is off a little so I’m going to have to figure out how to shim it since the machine doesn’t have a nod.

Any suggestions for the shimming?


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## Jim F (Dec 14, 2020)

How was the part in the vise ?


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 14, 2020)

Jim F said:


> How was the part in the vise ?



I chucked up the dial indicator in a drill chuck. I don’t have a collet the correct size to put it in.


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## Jim F (Dec 14, 2020)

Hunter9173 said:


> I chucked up the dial indicator in a drill chuck. I don’t have a collet the correct size to put it in.


I meant when you machined the part, which axis are the striations ?


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 15, 2020)

Jim F said:


> I meant when you machined the part, which axis are the striations ?



I had in the vise and milled it on the X axis. I also pulled off the surface and went back down not knowing what depth I was at.

The end mill I was using is in ruff shape.


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 15, 2020)

Do y’all have a go to website for ordering tooling?


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## Jim F (Dec 15, 2020)

Hunter9173 said:


> I had in the vise and milled it on the X axis. I also pulled off the surface and went back down not knowing what depth I was at.
> 
> The end mill I was using is in ruff shape.


try using a fly cutter, may tell you more.


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## IamNotImportant (Dec 16, 2020)

Hunter9173 said:


> I’m having trouble finding info on this PM-836S. I spoke with Precision Matthews on the phone and they told me they never sold a PM-836S. They did say however they prototyped a PM-836S and decided not to go with it. After they were done with the machine they sold it off on Ebay.
> 
> If anyone knows who made this mill please let me know so I can track down some info. If more photos are needed I can get them.


Where did you buy this mill from and how long have you had it?


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 17, 2020)

IamNotImportant said:


> Where did you buy this mill from and how long have you had it?



I bought the mill about 3 weeks ago from a guy in south Birmingham,AL. Found it on Facebook market place.


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## IamNotImportant (Dec 17, 2020)

Hunter9173 said:


> I bought the mill about 3 weeks ago from a guy in south Birmingham,AL. Found it on Facebook market place.


ok.. was wondering.. that ad is still on CL..


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 17, 2020)

I just tried looking for the AD just now and couldn’t locate it. Does it say sold or anything? If not I will message the seller


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## IamNotImportant (Dec 17, 2020)

Hunter9173 said:


> I just tried looking for the AD just now and couldn’t locate it. Does it say sold or anything? If not I will message the seller











						Precision Matthew’s PM836-S Mill - tools - by owner - sale
					

It’s under power and still bolted to the pallet for it. The mill has less than 4 hours total on it and is 4 years old. Has a no name 6” vise on it. Complete collet set, drill chuck, clamp set, and...



					bham.craigslist.org
				




this is the link that i found it at..


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 17, 2020)

I will send him a message. Thanks


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## IamNotImportant (Dec 17, 2020)

Hunter9173 said:


> I will send him a message. Thanks


you are most welcome sir!


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 17, 2020)

Jim F said:


> try using a fly cutter, may tell you more.


I own basically zero tooling at the moment. Which fly cutter do you recommend? Machine uses a R8


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## Jim F (Dec 17, 2020)

Do you have collets ?
There are some good videos on youtube on how to make one.
Just size it to your chosen collet.
Mine are 3/4 and 1/2.


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 17, 2020)

Jim F said:


> Do you have collets ?
> There are some good videos on youtube on how to make one.
> Just size it to your chosen collet.
> Mine are 3/4 and 1/2.


I do have collets. Thanks for the tip. I will look into it.


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## Hunter9173 (Dec 25, 2020)

So I have some Christmas money to spend on the mill. If y’all had $500 to 600 to spend would y’all go for a Kurt DX6, power feed for the X axis or a DRO (figure I might have to save more for a DRO).

Thanks for any advice


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## Rifleman1384 (Dec 26, 2020)

Just my .02 on this. Yes to all.

You will be able to find lots of discounts on stuff if you look around. Currently promo code L on Travers will give a discount up to 25% on some items.
DX-6 is good vise in my opinion, I have one on my Bridgeport and am very happy with it. If had a good or decent vise I might want to get the DRO first but if I needed a vise the DX-6 would be the way I would try and go.

DRO, absolutely yes. Several here will chime in that have bought from EBAY and are happy, I looked at many options and when I was ready I just called DRO PRO'S. I would suggest you give them a call and just ask about after Christmas sales. I called them last year just before Thanksgiving and asked about black Friday sales early. Dan advised what they were going to do and offered to old one for me so I could just call on Friday to complete my purchase. I received  a really great deal from them. The support is great and their warranty is now lifetime. 

Power feed is also something I have but out of your list it would be the last of your 3 upgrades.


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## Hunter9173 (Jan 18, 2021)

I’m trying to adjust the table’s backlash. I’m having a hard time finding a video on YouTube of how to adjust one like mine. Any advice would be appreciated.


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## jbolt (Jan 19, 2021)

PM occasionally gets machines from their manufactures to evaluate to see if they fit in their marketplace. 

I have a one off PM-932D heavy duty drill press. Got it for a great price but no warranty. Grizzly has an identical model, just different paint, so it appears it was from the same factory. 

Look at Grizzly and other import brands for a similar mill and compare the parts schematics. Good chances of finding a match.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


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## macardoso (Jan 19, 2021)

Hunter9173 said:


> I’m trying to adjust the table’s backlash. I’m having a hard time finding a video on YouTube of how to adjust one like mine. Any advice would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like a split bronze nut. Tightening the setscrews on each side should reduce the backlash. Don't go crazy, manual machines should always have some backlash. It doesn't really matter until you hit CNC.


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## Hunter9173 (Jan 19, 2021)

What would be a goal to shoot for as far as what is acceptable backlash? Right now it’s at .007 backlash. It’s a one off machine so I have no reference. Maybe something similar to a Bridgeport’s specs?
I’m completely new to machine so I really appreciate the advice.


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## macardoso (Jan 19, 2021)

Man, .007 seems nice and tight to me. Worked on some bridgeports with 50 thou and that wasn't a huge deal. If you are new to milling machines, you'll learn the feel and technique of taking up backlash every time you move the machine, it is like riding a bike. Down the road you can add a DRO and you'll never look at the hand wheel again. Zero backlash is unreasonable with ACME screws and would cause extreme wear. 

Maybe others who own manual machines in your size range could add comments. Currently my only mill is a CNC, but I've worked on probably 50 different knee mills over the years at school and jobs.


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## Jim F (Jan 19, 2021)

.007 is very good.
My 73 yo SB9 has .010 on the crossslide and .005 on the compound.
My mill/drill has about .006-.008, it was used very little by the PO.


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## davidpbest (Jan 19, 2021)

That adjustment is not a conventional split-nut.  It is essentially two separate nuts at each end of a yoke.  It’s similar in concept to a double-nut on a ball-screw. To remove backlash, you loosen the two cap screws on one of the two bronze nuts, then rotate the bronze nut to tension (preload) it on the lead screw threads, then re-tighten the cap screws. You’ll essentially be increasing or decreasing the distance between the two opposing nuts. See the photo below of the lead screw yoke on my PM935. I have mine adjusted to about 0.002” backlash. Any less backlash and the table has excessive friction. It’s challenging to get at the cap screws without a hex-bit on a long extension with ratchet. Twisting the nut once the screws are loose is best accomplished with a long punch (or long screwdriver ground to fit) in the spanner-wrench hole you see in the bronze nut, then applying twisting force on the nut while rotating the lead screw back and forth. As you giggle the lead screw back and forth, the nut will settle into a preload against the nut at the opposite end of the yoke. Make sure your gibs are honed and well fitting in the dovetail ways or this will be a wasted exercise in frustration.


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## Hunter9173 (Jan 19, 2021)

Awesome and thank you for the pictures and detailed instructions.
Would you rotate the nut closer to the other(clockwise) or would you go counter clockwise with it? I would imagine either way will make preload correct? Just wondering if there is a standard way of doing it.


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## davidpbest (Jan 19, 2021)

Either way should work.  Good luck - it helps if you grow 15" long fingers.


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## T Bredehoft (Jan 19, 2021)

There is an oiler on the knee, to the left of the crank. I can't tell what it distributes to.  I'm pretty sure there are others here besides my self who'd really enjoy that in their shop.


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## davidpbest (Jan 19, 2021)

T Bredehoft said:


> There is an oiler on the knee, to the left of the crank. I can't tell what it distributes to.  I'm pretty sure there are others here besides my self who'd really enjoy that in their shop.


*This series* _might be helpful._


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