# My back hurts(knee mill height)



## Aukai (Mar 7, 2022)

I've done 48 hole in 2 days drill and tap with a guided tap holder, 1/2 of the holes are on a slope, so I spot face with an end mill to drill those. I have power feeds on all  axes, but I'm bending over to hit the switches, or crank the handles for the multiple operations. A machinist friend wants to use non shrinking grout to build up a stand, and anchor the mill, I am not thinking about moving the machine, I just to make it higher in place. What are my options, and how high, ACRA 9 x 50? I am loving this mill...


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## mikey (Mar 7, 2022)

There is no cure. You're too tall. Best ship the mill to me. Being shorter, I will make it work.


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## Aukai (Mar 7, 2022)




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## Winegrower (Mar 7, 2022)

I set mine on 4x4s.   Two run front to back.   _(Edit:  sorry, they are side to side). _Then I added a 4” riser.   Now the table is a perfect working height.
I’m 6’3”, and I can still reach the drawbar.   But you must be “this tall” to use this mill.


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## Aukai (Mar 7, 2022)

I'm 6'2" I was thinking I would need about  another ~8"s???


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## Winegrower (Mar 7, 2022)

Aukai said:


> I'm 6'2" I was thinking I would need about another ~8"s???




If you have a power drawbar, maybe so.   If my mill was another inch higher, it would be tough to get a wrench on the drawbar.


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## Aukai (Mar 7, 2022)

I have the power draw bar, and love it too.


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## extropic (Mar 7, 2022)

I recommend putting the mill on something removeable and changeable (like wood or steel construction) rather than a fixed pedestal (non-shrinking grout or the like).

How high is completely up to you. Whatever makes you comfortable.

Another option is to get whatever will minimize the bending over. Tapping with a handle is tedious and slow. Get a tapping attachment of some type to make tapping a standup operation (not a bend over operation).

You need more tooling. 

What size thread are you tapping?

Through hole or blind hole?

Tapped through or how deep?

What material?


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## jwmay (Mar 7, 2022)

Just for a different idea, you could make the switches remote. Put them in a pendant like you see on overhead cranes.  But that seems like more trouble than blocking it up with timber or square tube.


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## Aukai (Mar 7, 2022)

1/4" plate 5/16 x 18 through holes using a guided tap holder. I do have tapping heads too.


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## Braeden P (Mar 7, 2022)

mikey said:


> There is no cure. You're too tall. Best ship the mill to me. Being shorter, I will make it work.


well im shorter than you so send it to me.... (I totaly dont need a milk crate to use the drawbar)


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## f350ca (Mar 7, 2022)

I bought and installed a 10 inch riser for a job years ago. Its never come out. The table is at a comfortable height, with the knee at the top of the dovetails most of the time. Downsides are I need the swivel on the vice to raise it up to reach the spindle, have to use an ER collet chuck to reach the table.

Greg


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## ConValSam (Mar 7, 2022)

I'm 6'6" so I feel your challenge with the world being adjusted to the wrong position!

I would start with 4x4 bunks and test what height makes your back and general ergonomics most comfortable. Worst thing would be to guess and then introduce a new strain you had not anticipated.


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## Eyerelief (Mar 7, 2022)

I also use a pair of 4x4’s on my Excello. Mine run with the x axis, one in front one in back. Originally did this so I could fit a pallet jack under it, but think I’ll leave them. Im only 5’10, but I can still reach the draw bar.


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## tq60 (Mar 7, 2022)

Build a pallet.

Most pallet Jack's are 27 inches wide so start with good quality material.

Stack 2x4 or start with 4x4, does not really matter.

Our BP is on pallet and perfect height.

Our mistake was we used a chunk of maybe 3/16 plate to spread load but it does not cover all of the pallet we used, was going to make better one but still have not done so...

Use maybe 1.125 floor base plywood on top with lots of long correct screws.

You need 3 base straps, one each side and middle.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


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## Winegrower (Mar 7, 2022)

Aukai said:


> I've done 48 hole in 2 days drill and tap with a guided tap holder,


 You don’t use your tapping head(s)?   Maybe that’s the problem.


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## Steve-F (Mar 7, 2022)

Dig a hole in front of it


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## Mini Cooper S (Mar 7, 2022)

Get a good pair of knee pads.


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## cwilliamrose (Mar 7, 2022)

I'm 6'4"+ and have had the same issues. My Millport (BP clone) has a 4" riser and that's very helpful. My Bridgeport will have a base added to it at least 5" high and I may raise the Millport a few more inches with a base of some type or at least some adjustable (leveling) pads. I have had problems reaching the work when bolting it down to the table on the Millport so I don't really want a larger riser.


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## Aukai (Mar 7, 2022)

All good thoughts, it has been the redundancy of changing operations, dropping the knee down,  bending over to bring the knee back up, bending to visualize the wiggler, etc. 
1. put in the wiggler, bend over to center the punch mark.
2. put in the end mill for the rounded edge on half of the holes.
3. Super chuck with drill bit.
4. Guided tap and bit.
5. Next.
I have 16 more to do this morning after I get off here  
I still have the Oak from the pallet it came on, hummmm...


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## Winegrower (Mar 7, 2022)

Also, you should get a full set of Kwik Switch holders.   Man, those take the work out of these repeated tool changes.
Yep, happy to offer great advice.


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## Aukai (Mar 7, 2022)

Those are not expensive at all  The power drawbar is a God send, but all of the tool heights are different, dropping the table, and bringing it back  with the power feed switch being kinda low is a lot of it. I'm glad I'm not hand cranking that though.


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## mikey (Mar 7, 2022)

Just hire Braeden and/or Peyton. They're not only younger, they're shorter. Plus, their joints still actually work!


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## Aukai (Mar 7, 2022)

When I was doing commercial fishing, and had younger guys as my crew, they ate too much. I even cut one trip short, no food left on the boat for another day.


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## mikey (Mar 7, 2022)

One cute local girl hanging around in your garage and the last thing on their minds will be food!


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## jwmay (Mar 7, 2022)

ConValSam said:


> I'm 6'6" so I feel your challenge


I spent my whole life wishing I was taller. This is the first time I have honestly felt sorry for a tall person. Well... aside from when I see one on  a plane. That has got to be hell. Lol


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## Aukai (Mar 7, 2022)

Restless leg syndrome goes away with alcohol 
I'm going to change up my procedures, and set the knee where I can get all of the tooling in, and out by moving the quill only. I think I have been too worried about quill stick out, and rigidity. Not enough experience, and slow thinking on my part.


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## mksj (Mar 7, 2022)

Never had an issue with quill stick-out and rigidity on the Acra LCM, exception is when I am spinning large face mills or very heavy cuts. I do all my drilling first, jig up for multiple parts and then switch to a spiral tap and thread each hole in one shot. I use the DRO to go to each hole. You can get a riser for the mill, number of people just get some rectangular  steel, bolt it to the mill base and then mount leveling feet outboard. Issue with casting a base may be the loading under the feet mat be high, so may need a plate to distribute the load.


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## ttabbal (Mar 7, 2022)

I really like my spacer on the Bridgeport. Being 6'4" makes it tough to bend over all the time with the normal height. The one I found was an 8". It ended up a bit uncomfortable to use a wrench, but a cheap power drawbar from ebay fixed that up. 

It does mean that milling ops do end up having the quill extended a little much of the time. It doesn't seem to make a difference in performance for me. I don't often try to push the machine hard though. So it's possible it would matter for people wanting to run 3" end mills or something.


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## tjb (Mar 7, 2022)

mikey said:


> There is no cure. You're too tall. Best ship the mill to me. Being shorter, I will make it work.


I agree with Mikey.  Maybe it would help if you worked barefooted.


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## Aukai (Mar 7, 2022)

Well I was able to get a table level, and adjust tool stick outs to not have to move the knee. I still had to change glasses, and bend over to center the wobbler in the punch mark, but it's way better than what I was doing. This is all for a good friend, and done no charge. If I have to do anything similar, how would this get charged out, and how much? So much per hole? I'm too slow for an hourly rate @ 64 holes.


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## MikeInOr (Mar 7, 2022)

I raised mine about 8" and love it.  I laminated together 2"x 8"'s and made it so I can move the mill around with a pallet jack if I ever need to.  At 6' 3" I love the extra height and have not had a problem reaching the draw bar.


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## Aukai (Mar 8, 2022)

I have a bead on 6 x 6 square tubing, and I have 3 x 6 oak planks, I'm thinking about sticking them together.


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## Cheeseking (Mar 8, 2022)

I raised my mill used a couple 2”square 1/4” wall tubes with heavy duty leveling pads. Ran them left to right, one in front one in back. The base on BP is 24” wide so I cut the tubes to 28” for 2” stick out each side. Pretty sure H&W machine works sells something similar as a kit for a reasonable price. They use CRS flat bar. 
I wanted to use the 3/4 x 2” CRS bars but had the tubing on hand.


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## Lo-Fi (Mar 8, 2022)

I'm also 6'2, so I sympathize. I work at my Bridgeport sat on a saddle stool and use ER collets. I hate fussing with the drawbar and swapping R8s, it's an awful workflow IMHO. They take too much Z move to swap too, compared to ER32, which can be rolled into the holder with barely any clearance.


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## ConValSam (Mar 8, 2022)

jwmay said:


> Well... aside from when I see one on a plane. That has got to be hell. Lol


It's either an exit row or bulkhead seat for me. Otherwise the hassle for me and the person sitting ahead of me exceeds anything resembling reasonable. And thank goodness I don't fly often at all.

My back hurts just thinking about air travel...


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## Braeden P (Mar 8, 2022)

mikey said:


> their joints still actually work!


Half work, bending over to pick up a tool makes my back hurt.


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## woodchucker (Mar 8, 2022)

Braeden P said:


> Half work, bending over to pick up a tool makes my back hurt.


Braeden, aren't you young, like under 20????
And your back hurts already???  Just wait..

edit: 14 .. Put on a lifting belt, and lift with your knees....   bend zee knees...


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## mattthemuppet2 (Mar 8, 2022)

new casters for some car dollies? Here's what I'd do in the same situation. Work out the bolt pattern for the new casters and prick punch the first hole. Center drill on dimple, zero dials/ DRO for both axes. Drill hole, move one axis, drill next and so on (easier with DRO, if not go back to first hole before changing axis). Swap out drill for countersink, repeat. Swap out countersink for tap, power tap. Done. If you have the travels then you can even do all of the holes on one dolly at a time. For the holes on a slope, find a centercutting endmill closest to the tap drill size you want and use that, possibly for all of the holes if it saves a tool change. That would take perhaps 30-45min per dolly, maybe less for the later ones as you memorise the numbers. Moneywise, that depends on what you'd want to charge in the first place. Based on my own "shop rate" (ha, charged once!) of $25/h, that'd be $80-100 for a set of 4 dollies.

As for the height thing, I feel for you. I'm 6ft2, so everything in my shop is set up accordingly - bench height, mill etc. For my mill I made a moveable base out of 2x2x3/16" steel tubing (I think) and 1/4" plate, with casters and feet to jack the casters off the ground when in position. Raises it up about 3-3.5" which helped a great deal.


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## Braeden P (Mar 8, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> Braeden, aren't you young, like under 20????
> And your back hurts already???  Just wait..
> 
> edit: 14 .. Put on a lifting belt, and lift with your knees....   bend zee knees...


I lift with my knees and when I bend my knees they hurt too, 1 I might have lifted to many heavy things 2 I might have done too many stupid things, I think it’s number two


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## mikey (Mar 8, 2022)

Weren't you the one sliding off a roof?


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## Dabbler (Mar 8, 2022)

@Aukai I'm half way through building a riser for my PM935 type mill - the X handle is below my belly button!  It is being made from some left over 4"X8" .177 wall tubing I had hanging around.  It will be 11" tall when completed.

When I dig it out again I'll post a projects page and notify you by posting here.  That will be a while, I'm rebuilding 3 machines at present.


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## Braeden P (Mar 8, 2022)

mikey said:


> Weren't you the one sliding off a roof?


No but I did go 35 mph on a toboggan with two of my friends, hit a jump, get 10 feet of vertical air and landing 40 feet after the jump which is probably the same if not worse


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## Dabbler (Mar 9, 2022)

For your entertainment, here's what a friend of mine did, using 4X4 .177 wall tubing and 1.5" high riser feet:




it adds about 6" to the hight of the mill, which suits his 5'8" frame.


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## MikeInOr (Mar 10, 2022)

Wood blocks have been working very well for me.  It also makes it quite easy to move the machines around with a pallet jack:


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## Aukai (Mar 10, 2022)

I still have the hardwood pallet my machine was on I can use some of that, and I was given 6" x 6" square tubing 1/4" wall, I had to pay shipping though.


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