# A Bit Of A Tool Gloat (and A Question)



## Charles Spencer (Jul 14, 2016)

I just got a pair of Starret micrometers that I think go from 2" to 8" and 8" to 13".  They have wooden handles and came in a sheet metal box with wooden hold downs.





They came from Camden Forge Company tool room #2 because that is what is engraved on the standards.




This place apparently made marine castings.  The picture above is from a 1919 book.  I'd guess that they did work for the Philadelphia Navy Yard across the river.  At that time they were on Mt. Ephraim St. in Camden.  The only other reference I could find on them was from 1955 and said they were located in Hoboken.  At some point the micrometers appear to have passed into the possession of somebody named Creager because that name is stamped on the wooden part of the handle.

I was wondering if anybody has an idea as to the age of these?  I'm fairly sure that they were from some time when the Durango Kid was around:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Starrett

Oh, not to forget the gloat part:  I paid a total of $23.65 including shipping for them.

OK, so that's kind of gloat worthy.  What makes it really gloat worthy is where I got them - ebay.  The last place you'd expect to find such a deal.  The seller didn't think to mention that they were from Starret.




The box isn't wood, it's sheet metal.  Maybe I should demand he rebate half my money.


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## Bob Korves (Jul 14, 2016)

Nice!  Those might be 19th century by the look of them.  If "Starrett" is only on the micrometer head, then the rest of the micrometer might be from someone else.  Note how the heads are easily removed from the frames.  They might also be shop made, looking at the box construction...  Regardless, they are way cool!


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## Charles Spencer (Jul 14, 2016)

Starret is on the standards too.


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## Bob Korves (Jul 14, 2016)

Then I think they are very special, Charles!


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## Bob Korves (Jul 14, 2016)

Better photos, if you can, please?


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## Ulma Doctor (Jul 14, 2016)

unbelievable find!
very nice score!


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## Charles Spencer (Jul 14, 2016)

I can't really zoom in close with my camera.  Actually, there may be a way but I don't know it.  In the second picture you can just barely make out where it says LS Starret on the standard.


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## Bob Korves (Jul 14, 2016)

Thanks, Charles.  Gorgeous tools...!


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## TommyD (Jul 14, 2016)

Old stuff is so cool

 I wish I had more money to buy some of the cool tooling I see at flea markets....I'm kind of a horder


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## extropic (Jul 14, 2016)

If I was going to build my own micrometers, that's how I'd do it. Not economical to build and calibrate the mic heads or standards. Therefore, Starrett brand.

Making a good stable frame from scratch is challenging enough.

If you want to investigate provenance, place a call to Starrett. I'll bet that they have a historian who could offer an opinion.

From what I can see in the pictures, my bet is they're custom made. Not Starrett "production".

If they'll calibrate (faces of spindle and anvil are parallel), they're priceless examples of output by a skilled tool maker. Proof, they have survived in what looks like excellent condition.

At $23.65, I think the term is YOU SUCK!

I'd be proud to own them. You should upgrade to "full gloat".


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## woodtickgreg (Jul 14, 2016)

Great score!


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## Bob Korves (Jul 14, 2016)

extropic said:


> (Snip)
> If you want to investigate provenance, place a call to Starrett. I'll bet that they have a historian who could offer an opinion.
> (snip)
> At $23.65, I think the term is YOU SUCK!
> (snip)


My guess is that bean counters outnumber historians by 1000:1 at Starrett today, sadly.  And yes, YOU SUCK!   8^)


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## Charles Spencer (Jul 14, 2016)

Actually, I went to the Starrett contact page earlier, described what I had, and asked if they could give me an approximate date on these.  Since it was a fill-out-the-form page I wasn't able to send photos but I told them I could.  I'll let you know if they contact me back.

I also did a google book search on Starrett.  Didn't find anything on the micrometers, but I did find this:

https://books.google.com/books?id=G...ADSYQ6AEIQjAE#v=onepage&q=ls starrett&f=false


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## Charles Spencer (Jul 14, 2016)

Found a better copy here:

https://archive.org/details/starrettbookform00fairrich


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## Tony Wells (Jul 14, 2016)

That is a very cool find! Please keep us posted as to what Starrett has to say, if anything.

Here's a couple of my shop made mics. The large one goes to almost 31, the intent was to 30".


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## 4GSR (Jul 15, 2016)

Tony, I can remember a few of them "home made" mics hanging on the wall in a tool room at a old machine shop my dad worked in when I was around 5 or 6 years old.  I remember the circular "C" frame really didn't know what they were back then.  That old shop is still in business today. I doubt any of that old stuff is still around.  If it is, probably "wall art" today.


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## Charles Spencer (Jul 15, 2016)

I received an email from Scott Robinson at Starrett this morning:

"I have never heard of these tools perhaps the parts were purchased and
they made their own tools If you can send me the pictures I could tell
for sure."

So I sent him the same pictures as above.  This afternoon I received his response:

"Closest I can find in my books is this tool from 1900."




This is the text:





The sides on mine are wood, not hard rubber.  Starrett is stamped on the frame in the picture above, but not on mine.  The anvils are different in that they are interchangeable instead of adjustable like on the ones I have.

I am inclined to think that these may have been made from Starrett parts either by a third party or at Camden Forge.


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## dulltool17 (Jul 15, 2016)

Outstanding!  Regardless of the provenance, you now own a small treasure.  Enjoy them; use them well.


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## Charles Spencer (Jul 16, 2016)

I should say that this does not make me appreciate them any less.  I actually kind of like the fact that they are unique items from a century ago.

I also looked at the micrometer on the other page:




The description was interesting:




Some day when I'm feeling an urge to be particularly precise I might try making something like that from one of the numerous old micrometers I have.  I think I'd go with an anvil that is at least slightly adjustable.


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## george wilson (Jul 16, 2016)

I wonder if the hard rubber deteriorated and was skillfully replaced with wood at a later date? Rubber wasn't what it is these days back then. I have to keep my latex surgical tubing(great for clamping certain cracks in things like gunstock wrists),in a sealed baggie. If not,the air will deteriorate the tubing in a year or 2,making it brittle and cracking apart.

On the other hand,gutta percha grips used on 19th. C. Colt pistol grips doesn't deteriorate. Just changes color some. But,that was just one kind of natural rubber at the time. Great stuff,too! Beautiful and exceedingly detailed frames for daguerreotype picture frames were made of molded gutta percha. The frames still survive perfectly.


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## 4GSR (Jul 16, 2016)

I bet you Starrett changed to wood soon after they received complaints from the government of the rubber not holding up at all to oils they used back then.  Rubber in general back then was not very oil resistant as it is today, well almost. Try to handle rubber when it is saturated with oil, it's very slippery.  I know this for a fact in a totally different application where we use Nitrile rubber forms that are used as sealing components in oil saturated environments.


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## Charles Spencer (Aug 3, 2016)

I guess I'll just continue with this thread.  I answered a Craigslist ad today for a 3/4 hp 1725 RPM motor ($25).  I figured it would be an upgrade for my horizontal mill.  It was a bit north of here but it was a nice day so I drove up and bought it.  I also saw another ad that interested me but it was about as far back in the woods as you can get in this state.  The directions were basically drive on this back road until you come to the New Hampshire border then turn around and make your first right on this dirt road.  Not too far from where the story _The Devil and Daniel Webster_ is set.

Anyway, I found the place and bought a Starrett 913 1/2 vise for $50.  I did a search and couldn't find anything about it.  It looks like this:




Oh, and it came attached to this:






Believe it or not I didn't even try to talk him down on the price.


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## FOMOGO (Aug 3, 2016)

OK Charles, that deserves a resounding YOU SUCK. A little rust removal, and some handles for the quill feed and you should be good to go. Cheers, Mike


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## Charles Spencer (Aug 3, 2016)

I have the handles.  I took them off to move it.

There will be a bit more than rust removal.  Those dark stains on the column are from where the previous owner sprayed WD-40 to unsieze the table.  

The guy I bought it from said he only used it a couple of times and never used the belts to change the speed.  Now to many of us of a certain age that could sound like "It was owned by a little old lady from Pasadena who only drove it to church on Sundays..."

However, I was inclined to believe him.  It was stored inside and there was no rust in or on the head and motor.  I opened the top and checked the belts and they were pristine.  No wobble in the chuck.  Inside the head casting was clean.  No drill marks on the table.

But I'd be willing to bet a week's pay that it hasn't been lubricated since it left Taiwan.

I think I'll check it fairly closely before I move out my old drill press.

By the way, here's the Craigslist photo I saw:


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## Charles Spencer (Aug 3, 2016)

Oh, in case anybody was worried about that bent rack...

I went online and found the manual.  It told me exactly what to do:





Lucky break that I found the manual to tell me that.


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## FOMOGO (Aug 4, 2016)

Yep, sometimes without the proper manual we tend to just be totally lost.  Mike


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## Charles Spencer (Aug 5, 2016)

I went on youtube and found somebody with the same drill press except it was badged "Packard".  They said they were going to restore it.  I thought cool - I can learn something.

The "restoration" consisted of:

- cleaning the quill without showing the removal.  They did show the guy using steel wool on it

- cleaning dirt off the base

- removing the head and painting it

- re-attaching the electrical wires

- putting in a new light bulb

I was underwhelmed.  Judging by the comments I wasn't the only one.

Here it is.  Watch it if you want to feel smarter and more accomplished.


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## wa5cab (Aug 6, 2016)

Well, it doesn't do any good to complain about such on here.  Or anywhere else for that matter.  The Internet is full of it.

Except that yours is a floor model and mine a bench, that looks like my Enco, purchased new in I think the early 80's.  Yours is missing the depth stop.  I can do a photo of it if you wish.

On the bent rack, I think that you should follow the manual's valuable instructions.


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## Bob Korves (Aug 6, 2016)

Charles Spencer said:


> I guess I'll just continue with this thread.  I answered a Craigslist ad today for a 3/4 hp 1725 RPM motor ($25).  I figured it would be an upgrade for my horizontal mill.  It was a bit north of here but it was a nice day so I drove up and bought it.  I also saw another ad that interested me but it was about as far back in the woods as you can get in this state.  The directions were basically drive on this back road until you come to the New Hampshire border then turn around and make your first right on this dirt road.  Not too far from where the story _The Devil and Daniel Webster_ is set.
> 
> Anyway, I found the place and bought a Starrett 913 1/2 vise for $50.  I did a search and couldn't find anything about it.  It looks like this:
> 
> ...


I have that same drill press.  Bought it new from Enco in 1986.  It has been very good to me.  One of the best features of it is that it has a 5" quill travel.  Mine is in a little better shape...


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## Charles Spencer (Aug 6, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> I can do a photo of it if you wish.



It couldn't hurt.  Thanks


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## wa5cab (Aug 6, 2016)

OK.







The nameplate says FLOOR but it's actually a BENCH model.  The depth stop itself was made from a length of 1/2"-20 UNF all-thread.  About 1/3 of it's diameter was machined away down to just into the hole on the tab sticking out to the right as you stand facing the DP  It is screwed into the piece of 1/2" plate below the tab, which clamps around the quill.  A scale a little longer than the stroke capability is attached to the flat with two drive screws.  The head of the 1/4" clamp bolt is visible in the second photo just below the retract spring assembly.  The quick-change stop visible at the top was bought separately.


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## Charles Spencer (Aug 20, 2016)

Robert, thanks for the pictures.  I ended up going with a piece of threaded rod and some nuts to set it.  I had thought about milling one side and stamping it.  But I decided that I would either measure or eyeball it when I set it.  I got the approximate length of the rod to use by looking at your picture.


I couldn't figure out where to post pictures of the vise I bought today so I decided to just tack it on to this thread.  Frankly, it's not nearly as big a gloat as the other two.

I got this 6" vise for $50:




All I could find out about it was this _Practical Machinist_ post from 2004:

"L-W Chuck went out of business in the early 90's. At the end it was one guy in the shop and a crazy old buzzard -the owner - in the office. I called on them a couple of times. Word I got was that the owner packed his stuff one night, threw it into his 280Z and ran for Florida. I went to the auction...what a load of junk they had. Newest machine in the shop was a non-running MAHO that they couldn't afford to fix.

There was a guy named Dick Harris that had been their financial guy who decided to go into the vise business and compete with them in the late 70's. Owner of the shop I was at then was a buddy of Dick's. I wound up building a few fixtures for the Harris vise. Dick wound up going big-time with a lot of CNC equipment, and ended up going broke. Haven't heard of him for years. I don't think I've ever seen a Harris vise at any of the auctions I have gone to.

How's THAT for background?"

(Pretty good, I thought).   

And I got this Starrett tachometer in the box for $10:




And a Starrett protractor head for $10 also.

Nice young guy to deal with too.  When I got there he was wearing a South Bend t-shirt.  He had an SB 9A and a South bend shaper.  I was also acquainted with the place he worked at.  We had a nice conversation.  

So, I had a good day.


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## wa5cab (Aug 21, 2016)

That looks like a decent enough vise.  Quite similar to the one that Atlas sold for the mill.

You can always come back later and machine the flat on the all-thread.  I just remembered that I bought the quick release depth stop nut from Enco.  When I bought the machine new, it came with two jam nuts on the all-thread.  Quite slow to adjust.  And quite aggravating when you set them for a job and then the next hole you drill, you discover that where they are set is just THAT MUCH too shallow to complete the hole.


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## TakeDeadAim (Aug 26, 2016)

Great find on the mics, and the drill press.  Micrometers are a great piece of history and I would suspect they are repaired with wood handles when, as stated above, the rubber deteriorated.


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