# Rebuild work ? 2 questions.



## AJ (Sep 23, 2018)

Both questions at end of post.........I picked up a Heavy 10L yesterday for what I thought was a good price. I`m new to machining but grew up in my dads machine shop. I thought buying a lathe that needed some work would be a great way to get to know a lathe intimately. She a little worse for wear but there`s life under that skirt. She`s not as bad as I originally thought but I will need the way ground and all that entales, carriage, tail stock, ect. Now to my 2 questions. 1- I can`t seen to find a model # to find out the exact year, where is it located ? 2- I`m looking for someone to do the way grinding, scrapping work. I live in the N.E but have no issues shipping her out. I want someone who is good but reasonable. I did`t say cheap, there is no cheap when it comes to this and if there is I`m sure it`s "you get what you pay for" cheap ! but reasonable/fair I can happily live with. A couple pics of what I`m starting with..I was thinking about shooting a video documentary/YouTube channel of this 40 something year old Newbs "quest for perfection" and "learn as you go" machining "apprenticeship" ?   I would present a project to the audience and get feedback BEFORE I start. Kinda have the viewers like you teach me...any thoughts on that ? Would you watch ?  Thanks, AJ


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## pacifica (Sep 23, 2018)

Should talk to Richard King.He has forgotten more about this subject than most people know. 
Personally I would add up all the costs and compare that to buying a new PM 1236-T @ $3999. If you want a project build your own custom stand for the PM.


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## AJ (Sep 23, 2018)

pacifica said:


> Should talk to Richard King.He has forgotten more about this subject than most people know.
> Personally I would add up all the costs and compare that to buying a new PM 1236-T @ $3999. If you want a project build your own custom stand for the PM.



I`m surprised to hear ya say that. Would you say the PMs are kinda top of the line as far as the Tiawan lathes go ? What about South Bends Tiawan line, overpriced or are they that well built ?


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## projectnut (Sep 24, 2018)

There are at least a couple grinding houses in Chicago.  The previous owner of my Sheldon MW-56-P had the ways, carriage, and cross slide ground at American Grinding and Machine Services:
https://www.americangrinding.com/grinding-services.html

 It was done around 2001 and if I remember correctly at a cost of $400.00.  They removed about .002" from the ways.  They did excellent work.  I'm currently on the road right now and can't remember the exact details, and don't have the paper work with me.  I'll be on the road another 3 weeks or so, but if you're interested in more details I can look them up when I get home.

In the mean time you might want to give them a call.  I'm sure there has been price increases since 2001.   

There is another grinding house by the name of Chicago Grinding & Machine:
https://www.chicagogrinding.com/ 

 I'm not sure if they do machine reconditioning, but it might be worth giving them a call also.


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## AJ (Sep 24, 2018)

projectnut said:


> There are at least a couple grinding houses in Chicago.  The previous owner of my Sheldon MW-56-P had the ways, carriage, and cross slide ground at American Grinding and Machine Services:
> https://www.americangrinding.com/grinding-services.html
> 
> It was done around 2001 and if I remember correctly at a cost of $400.00.  They removed about .002" from the ways.  They did excellent work.  I'm currently on the road right now and can't remember the exact details, and don't have the paper work with me.  I'll be on the road another 3 weeks or so, but if you're interested in more details I can look them up when I get home.
> ...


Great, thanks


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## Rooster (Sep 24, 2018)

Greetings AJ, rebuilding an older lathe or any machinery is a very satisfying project. Your thinking of doing it right, i have seen at least one you-tuber who thinks repainting an old South bend is rebuilding it.


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## Janderso (Sep 24, 2018)

Rooster said:


> Greetings AJ, rebuilding an older lathe or any machinery is a very satisfying project. Your thinking of doing it right, i have seen at least one you-tuber who thinks repainting an old South bend is rebuilding it.



Yes, I have seen those videos. I kept wondering, "is he going to scrape/grind the saddle-bed after he paints it?
Beautiful work though!
I would need to take a class or two before tackling a lathe or mill. There is much more to it than just flat!!
Lipstick on a pig?


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## pacifica (Sep 24, 2018)

AJ said:


> I`m surprised to hear ya say that. Would you say the PMs are kinda top of the line as far as the Tiawan lathes go ? What about South Bends Tiawan line, overpriced or are they that well built ?


I only can compare the PM1340gt to a Harrison boxford vsl that was 40 years old. The Pm is a great value for the money. To get the heavier Taiwan models it is about $4k more.South bend taiwan have several different  that are heavier for a similar swing and length to a PM but cost more.


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## AJ (Sep 24, 2018)

Rooster said:


> Greetings AJ, rebuilding an older lathe or any machinery is a very satisfying project. Your thinking of doing it right, i have seen at least one you-tuber who thinks repainting an old South bend is rebuilding it.




Yeah, where I come from rebuilding is not parts swapping or painting, it`s bring her back to factory specs and with my own two hands if I can..


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## tq60 (Sep 24, 2018)

There is rebuilding, refurbishing and cleanup.

One must understand what the end result will be with each option to consider return on investment.

A South Bend with worn ways will be different than one without but consider the real difference in cut.

Cutting at center and lowering tool as a worn way and the difference in depth of cut is minimal.

Rigidity and other features of any lathe when new limit how good it can be.

Lipstick on a pig is a good line here.

A worn but cleaned up South Bend works almost as good as the exact same machine when new in proper hands.

It may be better to tear down and clean all then paint and tune to adjust ships and gibs.

The money saved can be used for tooling or put aside for the next machine...and there will be...on lathe 9 or so and was not even looking for last one...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## AJ (Sep 24, 2018)

tq60 said:


> There is rebuilding, refurbishing and cleanup.
> 
> One must understand what the end result will be with each option to consider return on investment.
> 
> ...




Is there a way to give me a little more insight as to what you mean ?  My primary use will be gunsmithing. So let`s say I have a Rem700 1" dia. bull barrel I need to thread for a compensator(last 1/2" of barrel). I have 8" sticking out of the chuck and 16" in the spindle being supported by a spider. I`m also using a steady rest because I`m way past my 2x dia............. Because of one reason or another that is the only way to place the work in the machine. At that same point is heavy wear in the bed and the carriage drops A LOT(.125). What would I do to compensate for that drop in the bed ? All hypothetical of course but could easily be a real world scenario..My threads would destroyed no ? If I tighten the gibs I can`t move the carriage back for the next pass. I`m so new to this that I don`t even know how far off I am in this scenario ? LOL....What do I do ?? I`m trying to get a visual as to what you could do ?  Thanks, AJ


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## projectnut (Sep 25, 2018)

Things can get a little complicated.  I have an older machine that has the ways worn almost .015" near the headstock.  The first 18" are worn down because that's where most of the work was done.  the remaining 3 1/2 feet of the bed is not worn.  I can position the tooling and cut accurately at either end of the bed, but the problem comes in when having to make a cut through the transition area.  The tool slowly rises and will take a smaller cut nearer the tailstock than it does on the headstock end.  About the only way to compensate is reposition the work piece so that all the cutting is done either on the worn section, or on the un worn section.  In the past I've done the cutting on the un worn tailstock end.  That requires the work piece to be flipped end for end in the chuck and reindicated.   It's a PIA but can be done.


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## AJ (Sep 25, 2018)

projectnut said:


> Things can get a little complicated.  I have an older machine that has the ways worn almost .015" near the headstock.  The first 18" are worn down because that's where most of the work was done.  the remaining 3 1/2 feet of the bed is not worn.  I can position the tooling and cut accurately at either end of the bed, but the problem comes in when having to make a cut through the transition area.  The tool slowly rises and will take a smaller cut nearer the tailstock than it does on the headstock end.  About the only way to compensate is reposition the work piece so that all the cutting is done either on the worn section, or on the un worn section.  In the past I've done the cutting on the un worn tailstock end.  That requires the work piece to be flipped end for end in the chuck and reindicated.   It's a PIA but can be done.



Thanks...Ok, I had a feeling it was a little more involved then my skills can handle right now..lol  I think my OCD would go into overdrive....When I first setup my 10k I was test cutting a 0.020 taper in 8". I talked to my dad about it and he gave me a few pointers about setting up and shimming. He said with a older, smaller benchtop I should be happy if I could get it within 0.001-0.003. I said "1-3 thou, no way ! My OCD can`t handle that"..lol    I ripped everything apart and started my setup from scratch after a few failed re-setup attempts that put the taper at 0.060.  I thought to myself "I need things tighter or I need a new machine !". Yeah, that`s how bad it is if you`re living in my head. I spent 3 days, a sleepless night and the neighbors knowing the extent of my Marine Corps like vocabulary but I had to have it better..These pics are the result.....That`s over about 7"...and yes it mics the same, just at 0.6222....It does this consistently. My OCD is at bay.  This is what happens when you grow up with a Machinist who is in charge of the Seawolf project ! lol


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## tq60 (Sep 25, 2018)

Is the work supported by tail stock?

Is tail stock aligned?

Unsupported material will flex too.

Your tapers are way big...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## AJ (Sep 25, 2018)

tq60 said:


> Is the work supported by tail stock?
> 
> Is tail stock aligned?
> 
> ...



Were you able to see my whole post and pics ? I see you`re on your phone maybe it did`t show....0.0000" taper after A LOT of screaming special magical words..Very happy with the repeatable outcome..Maybe my explanation of the pic is a little ascue ?  It` shows 0.6455 on both ends with calipers and  0.622 when done with the mic on both ends. Mics being more accurate and all.


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## pacifica (Sep 25, 2018)

projectnut said:


> Things can get a little complicated.  I have an older machine that has the ways worn almost .015" near the headstock.  The first 18" are worn down because that's where most of the work was done.  the remaining 3 1/2 feet of the bed is not worn.  I can position the tooling and cut accurately at either end of the bed, but the problem comes in when having to make a cut through the transition area.  The tool slowly rises and will take a smaller cut nearer the tailstock than it does on the headstock end.  About the only way to compensate is reposition the work piece so that all the cutting is done either on the worn section, or on the un worn section.  In the past I've done the cutting on the un worn tailstock end.  That requires the work piece to be flipped end for end in the chuck and reindicated.   It's a PIA but can be done.


Another way to compensate for taper is to use the compound and shift it a degree or less. Helps to use a sine bar. I have done this and got rid of taper(within .0002) due to a worn bed ; limited by the movement of the compound, in this case 4".


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## AJ (Sep 26, 2018)

pacifica said:


> Another way to compensate for taper is to use the compound and shift it a degree or less. Helps to use a sine bar. I have done this and got rid of taper(within .0002) due to a worn bed ; limited by the movement of the compound, in this case 4".



I`ve read about that method. I need to try it..I wish I had more time in the shop under a good old timer. Those guys have such a wealth of knowledge..


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