# Shop wiring



## dlane (Feb 2, 2017)

Hi all been a little while, I'm taking a break working on the house figured ied mess around with the shop.
The shop is a boat deep two car garage sheet rocked completely inside. 


There is one 220 50 amp welding outlet , and four 110 outlets, all on one side of shop. 
Well that will never work , hate extension cords laying around on ground .
Pulled the panel cover and the 110 outlets are on a 20 amp breaker with 14ga single strand wired   
There is a outside 110 30 amp rv plug that is Romex 12ga on a 20amp breaker that I can get to the wire in the attic , thinking of tying into that with a junction box and 12ga romex across shop attic and dropping a 4 outlet box on other side of shop outside the Sheetrock with metal Conduit also drop another one on back wall by the lathe and another one by the original outlets to have true 20 amp service on three sides of shop .
 It has been my understanding that 14ga wire should have 15amp breaker, should I Change the original breaker to 15amp
Also put another 50 amp 220 outlet by the one that's there for the Doall band saw
Anyone know what it would take for drop cord from the ceiling in center of shop close to code.
Any advice much appreciated 
Thanks


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## tweinke (Feb 2, 2017)

I believe the correct answer is yes on the breaker change due to wire gauge.


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## TakeDeadAim (Feb 2, 2017)

Sounds like someone went small on the wire size in that building. In general 15 amp can run on #14 wire, however, in practice #12 is usually run, especially in shops.

What you need to consider is how many 15 amp outlets are going to be in use at one time.  In my shop I have multiple 15 amp outlets on 20 amp circuits and all are run on #12 wire. 

I would not tie in to the RV plug circuit; it's also a bit under wired, #10 is recommended for runs up to 50 feet. The problem there is if that outlet gets put into use AND something is running on anything you add to that circuit that wire could be overloaded.  Additions to circuits are best done in the panel so it is clear what the total load on the circuit is.

Are there any open slots in the panel that you could install new breakers for your outlets?

You should also investigate the rating of the beaker supplying the buildings sub panel and also determine if it is properly grounded as well.  Many sub panels in separate out buildings do not have their own ground system. When in doubt it's worth checking with a qualified electrician to be sure.


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## tq60 (Feb 2, 2017)

Ceiling outlets are the bomb for this application. 

Before shop we used the finished garage but it only had one or 2 outlets on one wall.

Added sub panel and an attic access drop ladder so we could store things upstairs as well as get in there.

Added lights and outlets then tools plug into ceiling.

Add a hook next to outlet with a loop on the cord or replace cords with twist lock contractor cords.

Rv breaker needs to be 20 amp.

Swap all breakers to match wire size as insurance gets funny if there is a fire.

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## dlane (Feb 2, 2017)

Thanks, the RV plug is getting changed to a exterior 2 plug wet box  , getting rid of the RV plug.
Have no way to run new wire to panel it's flush mount to Sheetrock, didn't want to break rock and drill top plate. There will only be one or two outlets in use at once , the ground is good coming from the main panel to the sub.
Tq: how high were your ceiling outlets off the floor and what type , gage wire did you use ?. 
One in the center Sounds good. Think I have some 12ga extension cord somewhere, should work.


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## FOMOGO (Feb 3, 2017)

How large is your service at the panel? Conduit is nice as you can put your outlets where you need them. Local code may require GFI on your outlets in a garage. I wouldn't be afraid to cut around the panel to access. You could put a surface mount sub-panel right above it and run your extra 50amp circuit and what ever else you wanted in conduit from there,  provided you have the capacity you need.  Mike


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## tq60 (Feb 3, 2017)

8 ft standard height.

We have a workbench island that has cord that goes up to ceiling then outlets in bench.

Box store sell heavy extension cords that make great replacement power cords.

Get one twice or 3 times length needed and cut into lengths.

One plug already attached and most have supply of plugs.

15 amp twist lock are common and not expensive so that is another option and one also could make short drop cord with twist lock into ceiling and cord long enough to reach general area and a bell box or hd female on other end for normal cord to connect. 

It is simple and clean for a finished garage.

Lots of storage too.

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## dlane (Feb 3, 2017)

Thanks , the shop service is100amp , the 14ga circuit  is getting a 15 breaker
Tq , I was thinking you dropped a cord thru the ceiling hanging down a couple feet with outlet on end the ceiling is 8ft kinda hard to plug things into up there
There is probably a gfi code here for a garage , me and them newfangled things don't get along
 we'll see.
Mike , I was thinking of putting a 50amp 220 next to the other one tying into that circuit, only one used at a time.


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## tq60 (Feb 3, 2017)

Nope...we installed outlet boxes on their own breakers.

Looks like they came that way.

You could use gfi breaker or outlets.

If using twist locks then breaker or first outlet in string is normal.

To get to attic get one of the long drill bits for doing this at the store.

They have long flexible shaft with hole in Web of bit.

Remove something in wall like an opening for switch or your panel then drill through the header.

Climb in attic and tie string or wire to drill bit via hole and pull it back.

If multiple wires going in leave a long messager cable in place to telegraph the wires.

Use one wire to pull next ones in then pull it back to pull next one.

Tie off in place for next time.

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## CluelessNewB (Feb 3, 2017)

I'm a big fan of overhead retractable cord reels.   I have 2 in my shop and one in the garage where our car and truck live.   The ones I have have 4 outlets with an LED indicator to see if it has power.   They are available at Lowes, Home Depot, Northern Tool and Amazon.  Mine are Bayco brand #SL-8904 but there are other brands.   Mine are wired to a GFI circuit breaker at the panel.  Personally I like GFI breakers rather than the outlets, they seem to be more reliable in the long run.


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## Glenn Brooks (Feb 4, 2017)

+1 on running conduit around the shop from a new sub panel.  Put as many outlets as you like.  Actually, put more outlets than you need. They will all get used!   I did this when I added 220 3Phase outlets hither  and yon from an RPC -after I wired 200 amp subpanel, 110 and 220 single phase then sheet rocked and painted my shop.

Second thing, cut the sheet rock and install your new panel and wiring!  Sheetrock is only an illusion of a wall.  It's nothing to patch and mud then paint over.  Particularly if you need a better panel, need to run new wiring up to the ceiling from the panel.   This is your optimum long term solution.  Most stud walls are 16" centers-some 24".  No matter.  A long thin slice of Sheetrock will cover over your upgrade in nothing flat!

Glenn


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## dlane (Feb 4, 2017)

Tq, I thought about drilling top plate for new wire with the long spade drill bit , last time I did that it hit a nail and that was the end of it.  I might try to use a demning drill in a right angle drill from the top and run a new circuit ? Iits pretty thin up there at the wall I can't fit anymore, 
do have a couple extra slots in panel.
Thanks


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## abrace (Feb 5, 2017)

Looks like this may have been already answered, but I will weigh in.

14Gauge copper wire can actually handle 20A no problem, but the NEC (electrical code) has limited it to a max OCPD (breaker) size of 15A. This is known as the small conductor rule.

They also limit 12AWG to 20A and 10AWG to 30A under the same section. There are some 'loopholes' in this such as with welders and such, but in general it is a no-no.

Also, a common misconception is that you need 20A receptacles on a 20A circuit. That is actually incorrect. A 20A circuit can have either 20A or 15A receptacles (or any combination you like). To get UL listing all 15A receptacles need to be able to handle 20A passthru current, so they are safe to use on 20A circuits. I generally use 15A duplex receptacles on my 20A circuits as they are a bit cheaper and it is rare nowadays to see anything that actually has a 20A plug on it.

              The only time a 20A circuit absolutely needs a 20A receptacle is if it is a 20A circuit with a single receptacle on it. When you only have one receptacle (as in not even a duplex receptacle, but a single receptacle) you need the receptacle to match the circuit.

So yes, to be compliant with the NEC you would need to change the breaker/fuse on that 14AWG circuit to 15A.

Sounds like whomever wired this to begin with undersized stuff per NEC.


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## abrace (Feb 5, 2017)

Also, for dropping cords from the ceiling the cord reels mentioned above work great. I am not a fan of them for permanent gear like feeding a stationary saw, but they work great as extension cords. The reason I dont like them to feed stationary gear is they have 40' of cord in them and you only end up using 10 feet for your equipment.


If you ave stationary equipment you want to feed from the ceiling you just need a ceiling box and drop some SOOW or SJOOW cord of the proper length. Use a strain relief like this http://www.garvinindustries.com/con...tors/cg50350?gclid=CJDboLvP-tECFciNswod3X4CUw. Put a metal junction box in the ceiling, put a cover on it with a 1/2" knockout hole, and use the strain relief and you have a nice fixed pendant cord.

They are great for feeding lathes, table saws, mills, and other stationary gear with as little voltage drop as possible.

Again, if you want an extension cord that you can retract then use what the others recommended above. I highly recommend cord reels from Reelcraft. They are fantastic, but they are very very expensive. Worth every penny IMHO though. They wear like iron, last forever, always retract even in cold weather when the cord is stiff, and they are available in 12AWG.


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## tq60 (Feb 5, 2017)

If your roof is comp shingles you can remove a couple and make an access hole above wall Rhee cover with sheet metal and place roof parts back in place.

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## dlane (Feb 6, 2017)

Thanks abrace good info to know for future projects, to late for this one though .
turns out the rv outlet is10-2 awg so that's what I used for 3 quad boxs with 20amp receptacles
Two down walls with conduit from junction box up top and one in ceiling about in center of shop.
Guess I could of gone cheaper and easier, going to check on a 20 amp gfi breaker, 
should of bought stock in Home Depot 
The top plate is unacceptable unless my arms were eight feet long as the roof doesn't have enough pitch to get to it


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## abrace (Feb 6, 2017)

Is the 50A 220V receptacle that is there a 2 wire or 3 wire? In other words, does it have a neutral?

If this is a detached garage, I would suggest avoiding the AFCI/GFCI combination breakers. I have had bad luck with them with power tools. Go with a GFCI breaker, or swap the first receptacle out in the chain with a GFCI receptacle (usually cheaper).


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## dlane (Feb 6, 2017)

220 is two wire, gona wait on the gfi breaker for now , each quad box is wired individually and tied into junction box up in attic ,so a gfi plug won't do it , I'll get a gfci breaker soon
Thanks


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## frugalguido (Feb 6, 2017)

Instead of surface mount conduit, check out Wiremold 3000. I used it in my shop and it is easy to add additional outlets now and in the future where ever you want  in both 120v and 220v.


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## dlane (Feb 7, 2017)

All circuits working as intended , if I need to add more circuits in the future the wiremold sounds good
Thanks all for the advice


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