# HF 4x6 band saw



## FlyFishn (Apr 17, 2021)

All, 

I've been watching stock on the 4x6 band saws here and stores in town keep going through them like hot cakes. I found the store in another town has 2 in stock so I might snag one. I figure if there are more than 1 if the saw has missing parts or parts are broken in the 1 I can swap parts with another unit before I leave. I checked my hydraulic press (20t) when I got it a few years ago for the same reason - everything was there though so I was in good shape. If the store only has one and it is missing/broken parts I'm SOL for a while.

Question - they have 2 warranty options. 1 year for $49.99 and 2 year for $79.99. That is pretty much an "anything goes" warranty. There is also a 90 day warranty it comes with. I did ask if the 1 and 2 year options were beyond the 90 days (so 90 days plus 1 year or 90 days plus 2 years) and the guy said it was, I will have to triple check. 

If I was to get an extended warranty I would probably opt for the 2 year. If I set the machine up carefully and keep it in good shape (IE - deburring the worm gear and changing gear oil before using it) I can't see having much go wrong with it. If I was running it hard every day in a fab shop it might be a different story. But for home use I'm thinking it might be OK for a good while which means little trouble. 

Does anyone have any thoughts on the warranties? I feel like it might not be worth it or if I get it when I do have a problem it would be so far down the road the warranty period would have expired anyway = SOL. 

I did have one of their 6 amp reciprocating saws go bad (trigger variable speed quit, now its full speed or off - may be repairable with a new trigger mechanism but not sourced through HF as they don't have replacement parts = would have to get something close and make it work, but the saw itself still works). That would have worked out to have the extended replacement/warranty plan, but I didn't get it. 

What would be suspect on the saw to go bad over time with a lot of use? If the motor went, for example, I could source another motor (not oem, hopefully a better one). But aside from dropping off a cliff and breaking the cast metal parts - it looks like it has replaceable bearings and I'd think any competent machinist/mechanic could patch it back together to keep it keeping on keeping on. Am I missing something?


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## markba633csi (Apr 17, 2021)

Personally, I would skip the extra warranty and just go with the 90 days, which is enough time to find and correct any problems.  After that you should have a saw that runs for many years.  The motors are fairly reliable, not much to go wrong.  Set the spring tension such that the saw applies only a few pounds pressure to the work.  There are several mods you can do to these machines,  including beefing up the notoriously flimsy stand.
You should clean out the worm gear box and put good oil in.  If they still use brass/bronze gears the oil should be compatible.
-Mark


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## MrWhoopee (Apr 17, 2021)

I'm with Mark, skip the extended warranty. When I bought my 4x6 a few years ago, I set it up and started cutting. No deburring, no fine tuning, nothing. It's been great. The only problem was my own fault. I cooked the motor cutting a piece of 1x8 0-6 tool steel. I left it cutting and went into the house. It stalled while I was gone.


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## C-Bag (Apr 17, 2021)

I'm of the same mind. But I have to say HF's warranty is certainly better than some of the other stuff I've gotten. Pretty much no questions asked. That's why it's important to use it a LOT in that first 90 days. If it's good to go, it's good to go for a long time. Mine is 40yrs and counting.


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## FlyFishn (Apr 17, 2021)

Thanks for the info. 

Unfortunately, I won't be able to use the saw A LOT in the first 90 days but I will be able to use it a fair amount. I have a project that is going to use some larger steel (A36 probably) plate up to around 5" x 1/2" and some large 4" OD or so x 3/8-1/2" wall square tubing. The plate I will get more than I need. The square tubing parts I might get just what I need. That is odd stuff for me. Thick plate can be pretty useful. I made remote throttle and shift control cable brackets for one of my outboard motors a few years ago from some 3/4" bar, a few drilled holes, and a cut off wheel. It all works spectacularly. Angle, bar, and plate can really come in handy.


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## pontiac428 (Apr 17, 2021)

You can buy a lot of bearings, oil, replacement switches, and leaded touch-up paint for $79.99. There is not much that can go wrong with these saws. Simple to fix if it breaks. Just square it up and go. I'm very happy with mine for the price.


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## C-Bag (Apr 17, 2021)

pontiac428 said:


> You can buy a lot of bearings, oil, replacement switches, and leaded touch-up paint for $79.99. There is not much that can go wrong with these saws. Simple to fix if it breaks. Just square it up and go. I'm very happy with mine for the price.


That's the thing I couldn't seem to convey to the Rong Fu rep. It's hard to find an all cast iron frame on any machine for >$300. And their "improvements" were good but hard to justify adding $700 to the cost. A lot of guys never even do miter cuts with their saw. And with their improvement you no longer have the option of using it vertically. I see that as only an emergency option as I used to find the vertical hard to use with the original silly legs. But since I've gone to my present setup it's not silly. But I like my HF all cast iron bargain basement vertical saw way better. I love having both, right tool for the job.


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## FlyFishn (Apr 17, 2021)

All, 

Thanks for the info. 

Called ahead to the place and was told they had 2. They were gone when I got there. Waste of fuel and time. 

I was about to drive out west, but realized it would be about 5 hours out of my day and the fuel. I can't quite justify that. 

Now the game is back on to watching stock locally. I called my usual store and they can not order in for me. I have to order online and ship home. I am not willing to do that because I want to check the box over before I leave the store in case it is missing parts or has any broken/damaged parts. How do you do that when the box is dropped off at your house? I was told if there are parts issues to contact HF's parts line. However, they don't have parts for these machines. Under warranty if there is an issue you have to swap the whole entire kit. So that means if I get one sent here that has an issue I have to juggle sending it back and being resent another one. I don't want to play that game. 

So I'll just have to hunt the stores inventory and when there is one snag it. PITA. At least I don't have an immediate need for it - I wasn't going to start a project today. I will in the next month, though.


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## C-Bag (Apr 17, 2021)

FlyFishn said:


> was told if there are parts issues to contact HF's parts line. However, they don't have parts for these machines.


??? That’s not been my experience. The couple of times I’ve had to get parts they came through. I am not in any way affiliated with them, just have a lot of HF stuff and over the last couple of years they have discontinued some machines only to be taken up by other distributors for way more $$.

You say they don’t have parts for this saw? Do you know that or think that? There can be wildly varying info on forums. I can’t think that HF is discontinued this saw as it seems more popular than ever but stranger things have proven true


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## markba633csi (Apr 17, 2021)

Yes that sounds unusually un-customer friendly to me also.  Have you asked if they can hold one for you?  Maybe pay ahead? Kinda like the old "layaway" program for parents at Christmas time?  I would ask the manager, tell him you really want one
I believe we have had members who got the saw shipped and the only issue was a dented capacitor cover or some other minor thing, not a deal breaker.
-Mark
FWIW I paid 40$ for mine as a basket case.  '78 vintage Taiwan model. Most of the bearings needed replacing but the motor and gears were fine; the seller let me open the gearbox before we made a deal.
Took a while to fix it up but I found it enjoyable and a bit challenging.
Maybe you want to watch Craigslist for a while?  They do pop up from time to time


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## RandyWilson (Apr 17, 2021)

I would like to tell you Harbor Freight replacement parts are available quickly. But I can't simply because I've only ever needed one. The aluminum pulley/flywheel on my first compressor broke after four years, they had me a new in three days. That's the only mechanical thing that has failed on a major piece of equipment. Electrics, switches and capacitors.. those I change out for better, sometimes before they fail.

 My thought on the extended warranty is the simple. They push them because they make money. That money comes from us. NEVER bet against the house.


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## BGHansen (Apr 17, 2021)

Not adding anything but more reading material.  Skip the extended warranty.  In fact, I never get the extended warranty unless it's a new for old and I plan on destroying the original purchase in a hurry.  Extended warranties are a way for the seller to suck more money out of your wallet.  They've done the math based on past experience and price the warranty for more profit.  These saws are bulletproof, not a lot that can go wrong in the hands of a hobbyist.

Bruce


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## FlyFishn (Apr 17, 2021)

I made a few phone calls around town and it seems the best course of action is to wait for a "truck" to show up, have it checked in at the store, and have them hold it then drive over there and snag it. Or, be there right when the truck is unloading.

I was told their inventory system is electronic and automatic. When they sell items that registers back to some warehouse. So if they sell out of an item, or they are very low on higher stocked pieces, the "order" for more is automatic. The clerks do not have access to that system - only what they have "in stock" there. If something is out of stock they can't find the work flow for more coming. That seems weird to me, it would seem someone somewhere there would be able to log in to a computer system that would show what they have coming. Same goes for what time the stock truck shows up. They could tell me the day the trucks were scheduled to be there, but not what times or ranges (not even morning or afternoon). 

I was able to get a clerk at a store to hold a saw for me. However, it was going to take 5 hours out of my day and 140-150 miles of driving/burning fuel. So its on to play the "game".

On the up shot to this - now I know how hard they are to get and I, for one, am not in immediate need for it. Now, had I had my steel and aluminum ordered in and the full weekend ahead of me to put the saw together and get to fabricating I'd be really ticked. I still have a few weeks to play the game - I'll cross my fingers I can come up with one and not have to drive across the state or to another state.

I'm still not wanting to order one online and have it sent here. There are things I don't like to get from HF - and this saw is close to that category, but low enough priced I am willing to go for it. I won't take a chance on not being able to open the box and take a look at things/take inventory before walking out of the store with it.


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## FOMOGO (Apr 17, 2021)

I've always felt the added warranty's are just there to make them much richer, and are basically a sucker bet.You know they wouldn't be doing it unless they were making money, and they probably make more on those warranty's than they do on the tools. Mike


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## Cr2348455 (Apr 17, 2021)

In the good old days , I ordered HF by phone and had it delivered (for cheap) and going strong for 12 or so years.
First things I did is:
Replace the blade with a quality blade. 
Drill and tap for a machine screw to lock the door closed. 
Make a better table when vertical.  Otherwise it is a great little saw.   Stops on its own, what's not to like?


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## MyLilMule (Apr 18, 2021)

I'm with the others. Skip the warranty. I've had my HF band saw for a couple years and it runs just fine. Order it and have it shipped to your home. If there's an issue, take it back to a store.


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## markba633csi (Apr 18, 2021)

Strange isn't it? The OP is in Ohio, which used to be the mother lode of manufactured machinery in the US. Now, import equipment rules the day.  Does it signal the fall of civilization? No, but it is an odd reversal of supply and demand.
-Mark


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## C-Bag (Apr 18, 2021)

markba633csi said:


> Strange isn't it? The OP is in Ohio, which used to be the mother lode of manufactured machinery in the US. Now, import equipment rules the day.  Does it signal the fall of civilization? No, but it is an odd reversal of supply and demand.
> -Mark


Uh, I disagree after looking at the OP’s CL. The only import is a 18” Grizzly vert. There is a Greenlee looks like 4x6 for $500 and huge Wells looks industrial for $1000. if I was going to be doing a lot of 1/2” big plate I’m pretty sure I’d looking for something like that big ol Wells instead of the 4x6.


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## markba633csi (Apr 18, 2021)

I was speaking of new stuff- decades ago you could buy a small machine made here for what the imports sell for now


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## Cr2348455 (Apr 18, 2021)

I just checked and HF does not ship the 4 by 6 horizontal/vertical bandsaw anymore.
my guess is shipping would be pricey due to its weight.
Here is a Grizzly model 


Note the $125.00 shipping!
Grizzly used to have affordable shipping.


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## Aaron_W (Apr 18, 2021)

The Grizzly 4x6 is the same as the Harbor Freight. I have used parts from Grizzly on my HF saw, because the Grizzly parts department is very easy to use, HF not so much. HF generally works on the bring it back and get a different one philosophy. Great if the store is a mile away, not so much if it is an hour + drive.

If you are contemplating the Grizzly 4x6 I'd take a look at their 5x6" swivel head. It is a fair bit more, but I think this style of saw is much handier, although you do lose the vertical option. I notice the price has gone up significantly since last year.

Grizzly 5x6" swivel head bandsaw 


Another option would be a portaband to get you by until you can get the HF saw or find a good bandsaw on the used market. I've heard pretty good things about HF's Bauer Portaband ($140), and often see corded Milwaukee and Dewalt portabands on CL in the $50-150 price range.

I have had a Harbor Freight 4x6" for several years, and at under $300 it was a great bargain and has seen quite a bit of use. 
I also have a vintage 6x10" Kalamazoo bandsaw which despite being 50 years old runs circles around the HF saw, but it was $350 used, I paid a little over $200 for the HF saw new.


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## FlyFishn (Apr 18, 2021)

Thanks for the replies. 

As for the Grizzly version of the band saw - for what it is (over $500 when you include the shipping) I can't justify the price. I have looked at Grizzly equipment before, mostly lathes. However, I think when the time comes (years, decades...) Precision Matthews is a better route (I'd love to have one of their 14x40" units).

The porta band idea came up before - making a stand and table for it. I think the better route is still the 4x6 to start with. I'll play the game for a bit and see if I can snag one.


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## 7milesup (Apr 18, 2021)

I dunno... I would get this.....https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200659539_200659539

Or this.... https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/bs-712g/

Better yet....https://tormach.com/machines/bandsaws.html


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## 7milesup (Apr 18, 2021)

Whatever you do, assuming that it is a 4x6 bandsaw, is get a *good bimetal* blade or two ordered. The one that comes with it will dull cutting through soft butter.


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## FlyFishn (Apr 18, 2021)

7milesup said:


> Whatever you do, assuming that it is a 4x6 bandsaw, is get a *good bimetal* blade or two ordered. The one that comes with it will dull cutting through soft butter.


Already ordered a bunch a week or so ago. They havent shipped yet - have not had any notice they have been made and packed. If I don't hear anything through this week I'll contact the place. They are all Lenox bimetals. I got a couple wood blades also, just to play with (yes metal = slower speed than a wood saw but I'll play with it and see what it does). Blades, abrasives, etc are all good things to have multiples of on hand just in case - better to swap them when necessary and keep going on a project than stop progress on a project. Same goes for redundancy in tools. If one goes down have a backup. Or, multiple methods to accomplish the same task - not necessarily the same type of tool but ones that can be fanigled (that's a technical term) to get a job done


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## Aaron_W (Apr 18, 2021)

7milesup said:


> I dunno... I would get this.....https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200659539_200659539
> 
> Or this.... https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/bs-712g/
> 
> Better yet....https://tormach.com/machines/bandsaws.html



If budget isn't a factor this is my vote. I got to use one in my welding class, a very nice saw and only $3500...   

Ellis 1600 10x11" mitre bandsaw


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## Shotgun (Apr 19, 2021)

FlyFishn said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on the warranties? I feel like it might not be worth it or if I get it when I do have a problem it would be so far down the road the warranty period would have expired anyway = SOL.


There is a reason those "warranties" are the biggest money makers for retailers.
I'd ask them, "Are you telling me that you expect this item to break after 90 days?"


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## FlyFishn (Apr 20, 2021)

All, 

On the up side I managed to snag a saw today. I checked stock online and one of the stores in town showed "limited stock". So I called and someone checked and they did have one. 

The down side is it was the store manager who I spoke with, as I found out, and he was a total turd. I tried to have him hold it and told him what happened with the other deal - gone when I got there. Apparently it is "company policy" not to - and nor can your order, either there or online. He was no less of a turd when I got there. I wasn't rude, I was frustrated, but polite and explained my thoughts on their lack of customer support/service. He bounced it right back to the "district manager" saying his direction was straight from him and the district manager is who signs his paycheck. I can understand the "chain of command" thing, but there are right ways to converse with customers and do business and there are wrong ways. Their "policies" to blame or not, the way they did business today really put me off. 

I did check the saw over before I left. They made me take it out of the store first (and wheeled it out on a hand truck - it is HEAVY). So I opened it up on my truck's tailgate. Everything looked to be in good shape - and the outside of the box was in acceptable condition (a couple pokes through it, but it was not obviously mishandled). All the parts appeared there and nothing was missing (havent counted nuts and bolts). I did open up the gear box also. Both the motor and the input shaft/gear turned easy as they should (you could tell they were all moving, not like a belt pully was loose on a shaft not spinning the shaft). Inside the gear box the gears were in good shape. The worm has some dings, but they are outside of the area that contacts the drive gear. I will check it out a bit closer and see if there is any metal in the oil. I did not feel much of a burr on the worm gear teeth - they are clean/sharp machined edges, but no extra metal burr that I felt. I might still knock the sharpness down, we'll see. 

I have not put it together. That will have to wait a while. At least theres one here, though - all frustrations aside.


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## FlyFishn (May 3, 2021)

I tried to put the saw together today. I spent most of the time I had working on a power circuit - outlet box, 14-50 outlet, and 6g cable. The rest of the cable I made a 14-50 extension cord and a conversion whip from 14-50 to 6-50, L14-30R, and 5-20R. That took way longer than I anticipated. 

The way I envisioned setting up the saw is to use a ladder and winch as a hoist. That is my go-to method. However, I was using the mount I had my utility winch on for welding practice and to clean up the welds on it so the winch was out of commission until yesterday when I reassembled it. Earlier I tried to get the saw out of the box but the saw assembly (comes assembled, minus the stand, belt, and belt shroud) was way too heavy to lift out of the box without the hoist. 

By the time I got to the saw project today I had an hour and a half before sunset - not much daylight. I managed to get the saw on the stand and that was all the time I had - and still put stuff away after dark. 

The stand is very flimsy. From one of the youtube videos I saw earlier I was aware that could be an issue, but I still wasn't prepared for how unstable it actually is. I did tighten the bolts (6 that attach the saw to the stand pieces, 4 at the tray, and 8 at the bottom corners) but it is still not very stable. I will mess with it some more tomorrow if I can. 

I also found the lever/tab that kicks the power switch off is too short. I tried to bend it straighter but it is about 1/4" too short still. That is a minor issue. 

I did check the worm gear and gear box before I left the store with it when I picked it up. I didn't see much of a burr, just a sharp machined edge, on the worm gear teeth. I will open up the gear box and give it a good look-over again before I use it. 

I got a new order of blades in. The first round I messed up the dimensions on the metal blades, got the right wood blades but that won't help. So I just ordered another round of metal blades and will deal with the ones that are too long later. The saw has the OEM blade installed already but I'll go ahead and yank it and put a new one on - much better quality blades (lenox diemaster 2 10/14tpi).


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## FlyFishn (May 4, 2021)

More progress today. 

I opened up the gear box and checked the worm gear over. The edges of the worm gear were sharp as I recalled. I am not sure I would go so far as to state they had burrs, but I did decide to file them down anyway just to get it out of the way. 

Pics before filing attached below. The oil looks pretty clean, no sediment or shavings that I can tell.


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## FlyFishn (May 4, 2021)

Next up was filing down the sharp edges. I did one edge all the way around then I did the opposite edge all the way around. I would turn the gear a little bit then make a few mild brushes with the file in each position as well as while I turned it. I didn't go super light, but I didn't really crank down on it, either. Just a firm amount of pressure. 

First 2 pictures are of the shavings still on the gear. Third is after wiping with a rag.


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## FlyFishn (May 4, 2021)

Once the shavings were wiped off I flushed the gears running the motor for a bit. I put the belt on and put it in high speed. I ran it for about 1-2 minutes total I'd say. This way the oil was circulated and any sediment/shavings left in the gears would be washed out to the reservoir. You can see a bit of milkyness to the oil in the third picture. 

Then I dumped the oil and soaked up the last bit with a rag and refilled.


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## FlyFishn (May 4, 2021)

After messing with the gears and the oil I swapped blades. That took me a bit to figure out.

You lock the saw in the vertical position. Then there is a small panel on what is now the bottom of the saw. There is a hand crank knob that lets  you loosen it. You have to pull that bottom panel up all the way to get the blade cover/door open. It isn't just the one phillips screw on the edge of the door that you need to pull out - the bottom panel has to come up. 

Once inside the door there are 2 other guards you have to pull to access the blade. The first is what is going to be on the top. It is a red guard. There are 2 screws that hold it in place. I took the bottom one out and left the top one in, just very loose so I could swing the guard around and steer the blade through it. The second guard is on what would be where you mount the table used in the vertical position. There are 2 phillips screws holding that guard in place. There is a guard that extends down below where the screws are a good 4-5 inches. 

I will see if I can get some pictures of all that later.

Once the new blade was in (lenox diemaster 2, 10/14tpi) I closed everything back up and was going to work on the lever/tab that kicks the power switch off. It was starting to rain then so I packed everything in. I'll mess with that another time.

I also didn't get the belt shroud on. I left it off with the work I was up to today. 

When putting the saw away I did tilt it back too far and lost balance. So I ended up dropping the motor on the ground. The motor plate pinned the power cord against the ground so I am hoping it still works and I didn't chop any of the conductors inside. We'll see. If I did - fairly easy fix, just not a fix someone should be doing with a brand new machine... Crap happens, though.


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## FlyFishn (May 4, 2021)

One rather odd thing I did find is it looks like the outer bearing on the top pulley (non-drive) is corroded. Any idea on what this is or what caused it?


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## KevinM (May 4, 2021)

The shutoff tang is slotted.  Loosen the screw and you can adjust it to trip the switch.


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## FlyFishn (May 4, 2021)

KevinM said:


> The shutoff tang is slotted.  Loosen the screw and you can adjust it to trip the switch.


Its max'ed out. 

The other bit of info is the bend in it is so the part that is supposed to push the switch tab (too short) clears the switch body when the switch flips. When I straightened the tab it wouldn't clear the switch body.


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## hman (May 4, 2021)

Sounds like you did a careful job on the worm.  You might want to stick a strong magnet to the inside of the gearbox lid (off to the side), so that it can catch and hold any stray metal filings you might have missed.

I've had trouble with the shutoff tang and the cheap toggle switch they put on these saws (I own and use two, and have refurbished a bunch more).  In one case, the tang pushed on the toggle just enough to "kinda" break contact, without pushing it over center.  That switch fried itself because the contacts arced when nearly but not quite open.  

In a couple of cases, I replaced the switch tang with a block of aluminum, threaded for a 1/4" hex head bolt.  The bolt allowed more (and more precise) adjustment range, and the arrangement was a lot sturdier than the crummy sheet metal tang.  As many others have pointed out, these 4x6 saws are actually "kits" as sold  You gotta do a bunch of tweaks, but you eventually get a good saw.


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## epanzella (May 5, 2021)

I'm on my second saw. (sold the first one because of relocating). Between the two I have at least 15 years with these saws and never a failure. When I use it vertically I sit on the saw bed. It's relatively comfortable and the saw doesn't move under that ponderous load!


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## FlyFishn (May 5, 2021)

What a PITA. 

That explains my day in a very accurate few words. 

To expand on the conundrum - 

I thought I was off to the races pretty quick today. I made a test cut in 3" OD 1/8" wall square tube and the saw wasn't cutting too bad. I did end up switching out the switch tab/tang for the original. I had to drop the down stop some to get the saw to cut all the way through the work and that extra drop took out the slop in the push I needed to trip the switch. However - that was only the beginning of what turned in to around 6 hours of head banging. 

After the stops were adjusted the first cut adjustment I made was to bring the twist of the blade in so that top to bottom it cut square. In that process I managed to get things set in such a way that the blade wouldn't make it 1/4 of the way through the work before running off the pulleys. 

The other day I did happen to find this document:


			https://wiki.hsbne.org/_media/tools/4x6bandsawadjust.pdf
		


that describes a lot more detail on setting up these saws. That was an invaluable read-through as it turned out. 

I read through some of that document and got the gist of the adjustments etc then went to town on the saw. Without adjusting the guides I was able to get the blade to stay on by tilting the upper pulley (in the vertical position). However, what struck me odd was I was never able to get the blade to seat on the rims of either the top or bottom pulleys. It was always about 3/32" from the rim. 

So I went back to the guides and played with them a bit. I found the bearings that ride on the smooth edge of the blade were putting a lot of pressure on the blade. So I backed the guides off so that those bearings weren't rolling = no contact with the blade. At that point I went back to the tilt adjustment in the upper pulley and found I could very easily get the blade to ride on the rim. So I tuned the tilt to where the blade just made contact with the rim. At that point I went back to the guides. They were all out of whack. 

Going back to the switch and the tab/tang that turns it off - there were a few problems now with this after the adjustment in the guides. First up - the frame and blade guard door/housing were bottoming out on the saw table by the switch assembly. So there is no way to get the saw to drop any further. With the guides where they were there was no way to get through the work - the saw would bottom out with about 1/16" left to cut in the work. So I went back to the guides and dropped them (made the bearing that rolls on the smooth edge of the blade push down further to hold the blade in a "deeper" position). Guess what? The blade went right back to rolling off the pulleys!! 

I added a 1/4" plate under the work as a riser and tried to tweak everything as best I could there. I am not having much luck. I was able to add tilt back in to the upper pulley to get the blade to stay on, but I am right back to where I was at the start. Since I put the riser plate in what I have not done yet is to loosen up the guides and go back to the beginning of those not adding any down pressure to the blade. So when I get back to the saw again tomorrow I hope I will do that first thing and get the blade to seat on the pulley rims then work with the guides. 

So far I have not been able to get a square cut. With the fence in its furthest back position at 0deg I still need to go a bit further. I started trying to account for that with the guides but I figured I'd pack things in and call it a night. When I do take all the adjustment out of the guides tomorrow that will reset all of that anyway.... 

Again, a very accurate few words is this is a PITA. OK, scratch that... Its a ROYAL PITA.  Did I mention I keeled the saw over on its motor a 2nd time trying to roll it around? This time it went over sideways at the bump where the garage floor meets the base where the garage door seal rests - about 3/4" drop. I tried to drop one wheel at a time off and lost balance. It bent the bracket holding the axle. I think a new cart is in order for this thing. I beat it in to submission with a ball peen hammer for the time being.

I will say, though, for all the cutting I've done in the past that would have been better off done with a band saw I am OK with battling this one out. I can already tell how big of a help this will be - the end result will be worth it.


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## jwmelvin (May 5, 2021)

It does sound like it’s making things difficult. If I remember correctly, you don’t necessarily want the blade hitting the pulley flanges, because you want the teeth off the pulley. If the teeth ride on the pulley, it can take the set out of one side and then the blade will no longer cut straight.


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## Larry$ (May 5, 2021)

I've got one of these saws. It has been used in my commercial shop for at least 20 years. Other than adjusting the guides & the switch stop, not much has been done to it. The gear case has never been opened, original oil. The wheels are rarely used, luckily. The vice has been drilled to allow clamping short parts, a bigger table for vertical use has been put on. I made the work stop easier to adjust. The flimsy door barely hangs in there. It gets used and abused by anyone in the shop. It cuts square. Angle iron is cut corner up so the blade doesn't have to engage too much thickness. Most things are cut dry. Aluminum is cut using WD40 to keep from welding into the teeth. The guide bearings are still original. Even though I'm retired from the shop I still use it occasionally. I even cleaned it, once. I have a heavy, very old cold saw that I use for anything that will fit. Much faster. 
Never move the saw in the up position! Ease the blade into the cut. On heavy plate mount the work edge up or if too tall, at an angle so you aren't trying to cut a big flat piece. Some day, IF, I get a new shop, I'll buy a respectable saw. This 4x6 has done a lot of work and was well worth it's price.


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## FlyFishn (May 6, 2021)

jwmelvin said:


> It does sound like it’s making things difficult. If I remember correctly, you don’t necessarily want the blade hitting the pulley flanges, because you want the teeth off the pulley. If the teeth ride on the pulley, it can take the set out of one side and then the blade will no longer cut straight.


That is a good point. 

I will take a look at it and see how much, if any, of the teeth ride on the pulley with the blade butted up against the flanges/rims. If that is a concern then it would appear the solution to it is the guides - have those adjusted down to where the depth of blade cut puts enough pressure on the blade opposite of the force the tilting of the upper pulley causes to push the blade back in to the flange/rim to where the blade sits in equilibrium at the right spacing from the flange/rim. 

However, will the blade stay on the pulleys at the above point of equilibrium? So far I haven't had any luck with that.


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## jwmelvin (May 6, 2021)

I forget, but can’t the guide bearings (the ones that contact the back edge of the blade) hold the teeth off the pulley, while the pulley is slightly biased to pull the blade on?


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## FlyFishn (May 6, 2021)

jwmelvin said:


> I forget, but can’t the guide bearings (the ones that contact the back edge of the blade) hold the teeth off the pulley, while the pulley is slightly biased to pull the blade on?


I think that is the point of equilibrium that I was describing. I will take some pictures as I go and post back. Give me a few hours.


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## FlyFishn (May 6, 2021)

First off - I did some more adjusting today. I took all the adjustment out of the guides and left the top bearings free (not touching the blade). Then I went to adjusting the tilt of the top pulley. I found that the blade had to ride on the flange/rim otherwise it would start working its way across the pulley and would eventually have popped off. With the blade against the rim/flange the teeth are still OK (see the last picture of the close up of the under side of the blade and you can see the teeth just barely clear the pulley) 

From that point I went to tuning the saw to cut square. This time I kept the 1/4" plate riser under the work at all times. I set the guides so the top bearings were just touching the blade. From there I went to making more test cuts and tuned. 

I ended up needing to back off the fence angle quite a bit (past 0, negative). I had the guides adjusted the most I could to use them to shove the blade to the right angle. The tilt of the guides (that rolls the blade to change how the blade tracks down through the work) also significantly affects the angle of cut. So I worked on getting the top to bottom cut square first then did the adjustment in the fence. 

Now for the kicker... Note the top picture and the blue arrow. I found there was a lot of play in that part - with the bolt tight. I could grab on to it and move it, and the blade inside of the guide rollers, way too much for comfort. So I shoved that guide all the way back up in to the frame - leaving the widest gap of blade available. With that guide able to move as much as it was when it was out as it was in that picture I could make 2 cuts back to back and the results would vary between the 2. 

Talking to a buddy of mine he suggested to shim that guide up inside the frame using brass shim stock. I suppose that is an idea. What do some of you think? 

At this point - I am OK with the saw how it is. I am not impressed by it, but realize its a cheap saw so there will be some nuances. I understand it enough right now that for my purposes at the moment I can make it work - I know what to check. As time goes on I can improve it. With the way I have the tilt of the pulley and the guides I am not loosing the blade anymore so that is a HUGE plus. I did put some oil on the blade/guide bearings and have been getting the blade snagged on the work requiring a quick back off of the cut then resume with light pressure to get through the snag, but that is a minor issue (so long as I catch it and I'm not away from the machine). 

I'm hoping in the next couple weeks I can start in to my next fabrication project - front receiver/winch mount for my truck. I need to tweak the design and get the dimensions ironed out first. I have to reroute coolant hoses and have a couple ideas on how to do it, but need to dig in to it and see what I want to do.


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## jwmelvin (May 6, 2021)

Definitely good to have gotten the blade not to pop off.  for the sliding guide arm, you’re saying the whole arm moves laterally? I’d have to look at mine to think about fixes but it would be nice to be able to adjust it in and out with minimal fuss (there is adhesive shim stock that may work well).


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## FlyFishn (May 6, 2021)

jwmelvin said:


> for the sliding guide arm, you’re saying the whole arm moves laterally?


Looking at the picture there - I could grab hold of it and push it in and out, which would in turn change the angle of the cut (pushing/pulling the front of the blade changing the angle of cut with respect to the bottom/right guide and irrespective of fence position). 

When I figured out the movement in that part I was trying to set the angle with a square against the fence. It was odd to me that 2 cuts had 2 different results and when I checked with the square to adjust I thought I'd poke and prod a bit to see what was going on and that was it - movement in the guide.


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## FlyFishn (May 14, 2021)

I'm working on some engine projects here and am making use of the saw to cut some blocks for manifolds. Here is one of the cut edges. I do admit - it does an excellent job. This is with a 10/14 Lenox blade, light pressure, and fastest blade speed. Mild steel/A36.

I am not sure exactly how square the cut is on this piece, but I had the horizontal angle pretty darn close (checked the blade tracking with a square prior to cutting). As to vertical tracking through the material - not real sure. On these cuts it doesnt matter so I'm not worried about it.

I did file the edges to knock the sharpness and burrs off.


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## FlyFishn (May 18, 2021)

More pictures. 

This is a bar of stainless steel I got a LONG time ago. The college program I was in had a nice old shop and ended up down-sizing. We were the last class through there and they let us rummage around. I had made some ham radio antenna parts out of this (3/8" x 24tpi threaded bases) so I figured I'd snag it and use it for something later. Still haven't done anything with it... one of these days when I get a lathe. They did have a few 3 phase lathes that were up for auction back in the day. I still kick myself for not getting one of them, but at the time I had no where to put it.

In any event, I chopped this bar up for easier storage. It was over 13 feet long. The saw cut very well. I put the belt on the slowest speed and kept some oil on the blade.

I did knock the edges down with a file so no one cuts themselves on it. This stuff is HARD. I recall making the parts years back how tough it was to machine also. The saw didn't hesitate with it. The blade made it through all 4 cuts and never missed a beat. Though, I did not verify how square the cut was. I was not concerned with it on these - same with the manifold blanks I cut the other day. It was simply just sizing down the bar, no precision necessary.


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## Larry$ (May 19, 2021)

Nice stock to have. I don't have a lot of experience with SS. What I've done with it has shown me whatever version I had was very susceptible to work hardening. As long as I kept cutting deep enough things worked fine. Very thin/shallow cuts resulted in making it hard as hell. I've since learned which SS to avoid. Problem is I often use mystery metal.


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## FlyFishn (May 19, 2021)

That SS bar is mystery metal for the time being. However, one end (not shown) has the stampings from when it was forged/milled. Maybe those numbers/codes would point to the details of it. 

I recall when I was machining it I had to go very light with the tools otherwise it would either break the tool or something would give and the part would ride up on top of the tool.


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