# semi-Diy lathe machine



## theaigcaman (Aug 23, 2017)

First: Disclaimers
1.  I don't know where this post should go so I am posting it in general discussion
2.  I fully understand that some people are really against diy machines
3.  I saw a whole post on another forum complaining about people using grant money to make a crappy machine. Therefore I feel obligated to say that I plan to take on all of the cost of this project
4. Buying a Chinese lathe would probably be cheaper and much easier than making one, I know
5. I don't expect to get super-duper accuracy from this machine

Disclaimers over.

Explanation:
I would like to build a "semi-diy"/"semi-homemade" lathe. What I am thinking of is using a steel tube frame with scraped cold roll ways. (Inspiration from the gingery lathe) Also in a hope to make the machine more rigid I plan to fill the steel tubing with cement. I plan to design my ideas in CAD and post some screenshots later.

I appreciate all feedback and would love to hear the input of the community.

Edit 1 (7 min after posting):
Also when I get a concrete idea of what I'm doing I would love to share my design specifics


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## bl00 (Aug 23, 2017)

Looking forward to seeing what you do!


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## Downwindtracker2 (Aug 23, 2017)

Who says, chuckle, Chinese lathes aren't DIY projects.


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## theaigcaman (Aug 23, 2017)

Downwindtracker2 said:


> Who says, chuckle, Chinese lathes aren't DIY projects.


True that. I seen a couple videos of people making those lathes somewhat acceptable.


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## savarin (Aug 23, 2017)

Have you looked at multi machine? http://opensourcemachinetools.org/wordpress/multimachine/
Might get some ideas there.
The gingery lathe does work but is a bit light


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## theaigcaman (Aug 23, 2017)

savarin said:


> Have you looked at multi machine? http://opensourcemachinetools.org/wordpress/multimachine/
> Might get some ideas there.


Idk, it looks interesting but I really want just a lathe...


savarin said:


> The gingery lathe does work but is a bit light


That's why I plan to make it out of concrete filled steel tubing


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## T Bredehoft (Aug 23, 2017)

You want weight, use lead shot.


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## Laytonnz (Aug 23, 2017)

I'll be following this as I thought about a similar project untill I hit spindle bearings then it became cost prehibitive 

Why not use 2 pieces of railway iron as the bed ways?

Do you have any machines already?  It will be exeptionally hard without at least a lathe or a mill. .. I don't know how I used to get by without my lathes...


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## theaigcaman (Aug 24, 2017)

T Bredehoft said:


> You want weight, use lead shot.


What about melting the lead into as many parts as I can and filling the rest with lead shot? Also, don't I need to worry about vibration dampening too?


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## theaigcaman (Aug 24, 2017)

Laytonnz said:


> I'll be following this as I thought about a similar project untill I hit spindle bearings then it became cost prehibitive
> 
> Why not use 2 pieces of railway iron as the bed ways?
> 
> ...


Like I said, I'm not looking for a super precise machine, and for the parts that absolutely have to be lathed I know someone with a lathe, or possibly someone on this forum would be willing to do it if I mail the stock to them, although I'm super not counting on that.
Also, about spindle bearings I already bought some 1 inch ID tapered roller bearings (small I know).


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## Laytonnz (Aug 24, 2017)

theaigcaman said:


> Like I said, I'm not looking for a super precise machine, and for the parts that absolutely have to be lathed I know someone with a lathe, or possibly someone on this forum would be willing to do it if I mail the stock to them, although I'm super not counting on that.
> Also, about spindle bearings I already bought some 1 inch ID tapered roller bearings (small I know).


Oh yup,  so what's you're plan? 

Where in the world do you live, I can help with a few bits if you need help, I'm still learning myself but I know a heck of a lot more then a did before I tore down a harrison l5 for a "rebuild" 1 year later and I'm still making parts for it.

Finally have paint on the old girl it's waiting for a top coat a new set of belts a VFD and rewiring .

Then scraping ... i hope..

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## theaigcaman (Aug 24, 2017)

Laytonnz said:


> Oh yup,  so what's you're plan?
> 
> Where in the world do you live, I can help with a few bits if you need help, I'm still learning myself but I know a heck of a lot more then a did before I tore down a harrison l5 for a "rebuild" 1 year later and I'm still making parts for it.
> 
> ...



Boise Idaho area, but I'm currently going to college, so the building won't really start till I get back next summer, but I want to start the planning phase early. 

So far the plan is to gather information and flesh out the plan more as I go.  What I'm thinking right now, which is obviously up for revision, is to weld a base with two feet and a steel tube connecting them, then to flatten the top of the steel tube as much as possible. Drill and tap copious amounts of holes in the top of it and bolt a 36" x 4" x 1/2" piece of cold roll to it. Scrape the crap out of it to make it as true as possible, most likely with a piece of sheet glass as a crude "surface plate" (I do have a granite counter top to set it on to give the glass a fighting chance at being flat). Then in a similar fashion to the gingery books, make a temporary headstock, most likely out of steel tubing, to bore out the final headstock, also probably steel tubing, (scraping all necessary surfaces along the way) then figure out the carriage and apron. I'm thinking the only things that will have to be machined will be the spindle and the tail stock ram, beyond that I think it can be done with mostly "off the shelf" parts and a 55 gallon drum of elbow grease. 

Dang. Run-on sentences galore, and really long post. Sorry for the book over here.


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## Laytonnz (Aug 24, 2017)

theaigcaman said:


> Boise Idaho area, but I'm currently going to college, so the building won't really start till I get back next summer, but I want to start the planning phase early.
> 
> So far the plan is to gather information and flesh out the plan more as I go.  What I'm thinking right now, which is obviously up for revision, is to weld a base with two feet and a steel tube connecting them, then to flatten the top of the steel tube as much as possible. Drill and tap copious amounts of holes in the top of it and bolt a 36" x 4" x 1/2" piece of cold roll to it. Scrape the crap out of it to make it as true as possible, most likely with a piece of sheet glass as a crude "surface plate" (I do have a granite counter top to set it on to give the glass a fighting chance at being flat). Then in a similar fashion to the gingery books, make a temporary headstock, most likely out of steel tubing, to bore out the final headstock, also probably steel tubing, (scraping all necessary surfaces along the way) then figure out the carriage and apron. I'm thinking the only things that will have to be machined will be the spindle and the tail stock ram, beyond that I think it can be done with mostly "off the shelf" parts and a 55 gallon drum of elbow grease.
> 
> Dang. Run-on sentences galore, and really long post. Sorry for the book over here.


How will you turn the taper for the taperd roller bearings?

The bed Will need to be Atleast milled to something that resembles "flat" before you start scraping 

Can you weld? 

Are you going to have a compound slide?

Do the gingerly lathes have bearings or bushings?  What are you going to do about a spindle? 


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## theaigcaman (Aug 24, 2017)

Laytonnz said:


> How will you turn the taper for the taperd roller bearings?
> 
> The bed Will need to be Atleast milled to something that resembles "flat" before you start scraping
> 
> ...



The bearings I got include the cup, I think it's called. 

The cold roll is already relatively close to flat, I mean if someone has a mill of that size and wants to square it up, I won't look that gift horse in the mouth. 

I can "weld," although the craptacular Chicago electric stick/"tig" welder might need to thrown out, worst case, I have friends with better welders, and I'm confident enough in my welds not falling apart. 

I *hope* to have a compound slide, chances are that may not work very well, but I'll try...

Gingery lathes have bushings, and for the spindle I'm thinking some sort of shaft that can be machined to fit in the bearings and have some sort of standard taper on the business end to accept a backplate for a chuck. If you can't tell, I'm not to sure about the design of the spindle


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## Laytonnz (Aug 24, 2017)

theaigcaman said:


> The bearings I got include the cup, I think it's called.
> 
> The cold roll is already relatively close to flat, I mean if someone has a mill of that size and wants to square it up, I won't look that gift horse in the mouth.
> 
> ...


Threaded spindle will be the easier option.

Sorry I didn't understand, I get it now, I wasn't thinking.

The most recent taperd rollers I installed had a tapered race

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## theaigcaman (Aug 24, 2017)

Laytonnz said:


> Threaded spindle will be the easier option.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk



I think that's what I have in mind... A taper to align the thing in the spindle and a thread to lock it in place. I haven't really seen how normal lathes attach stuff to their spindles

Like the "type L" in this picture


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## Laytonnz (Aug 24, 2017)

theaigcaman said:


> I think that's what I have in mind... A taper to align the thing in the spindle and a thread to lock it in place. I haven't really seen how normal lathes attach stuff to their spindles
> 
> Like the "type L" in this picture


Try searching something like "threaded spindle" or "myford spindle nose" 

Those a taperd spindle noses much harder to machine. .

Have you never used a lathe before?

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## theaigcaman (Aug 24, 2017)

Laytonnz said:


> Try searching something like "threaded spindle" or "myford spindle nose"
> 
> Those a taperd spindle noses much harder to machine. .
> 
> ...



Twice in high school, one to turn down aluminum all thread from 1/4 to 1/8 to test it in a stress tester and the other time screwing around. Both times on small machines <8" swing

And with the spindle nose I agree, that picture I showed looked like major overkill


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## DaveInMi (Aug 24, 2017)

The Gingery lathe builds its self.  It is based on a true flat surface for the bed.  Steel warps when welded.  I recommend the Gingery method whether you weld up the bed or some other way.  Get the bed and ways true and use it for a reference.  Torsion is the enemy.  The Gingery books are worth much more than the money they cost.


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## theaigcaman (Aug 24, 2017)

DaveInMi said:


> The Gingery lathe builds its self.  It is based on a true flat surface for the bed.  Steel warps when welded.  I recommend the Gingery method whether you weld up the bed or some other way.  Get the bed and ways true and use it for a reference.  Torsion is the enemy.  The Gingery books are worth much more than the money they cost.



I don't plan to weld the bed to the rest of the machine, I plan to bolt it. I'm actually taking a lot of inspiration from the gingery lathe, I just think that steel tubing filled with a stiffener of some kind will be stronger, and easier to make, than cast aluminum.


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## T. J. (Aug 24, 2017)

Have you considered making a concrete lathe?  I have no experience in this area, but I have been intrigued by what I've read about.  Just another option...


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## Downwindtracker2 (Aug 24, 2017)

Here's one idea ,make a wood turning lathe first.  Wood turning is just plain fun.

I have 17" Jet drill press .  Who ever thought the cast iron for the base was so flexible.  A drill press flopping around is not the end of the world, but the column flexing is a royal pain.  Your suggestion for filling the tubes triggered a thought, what about using that foam in place they use in houses for crack sealing ?


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## theaigcaman (Aug 24, 2017)

Downwindtracker2 said:


> Here's one idea ,make a wood turning lathe first.  Wood turning is just plain fun.
> 
> I have 17" Jet drill press .  Who ever thought the cast iron for the base was so flexible.  A drill press flopping around is not the end of the world, but the column flexing is a royal pain.  Your suggestion for filling the tubes triggered a thought, what about using that foam in place they use in houses for crack sealing ?



I don't think that foam would add much rigidity or vibration damping, which are what I'm looking for


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## Laytonnz (Aug 24, 2017)

theaigcaman said:


> I don't think that foam would add much rigidity or vibration damping, which are what I'm looking for


Sand would be cheaper and less hastle then melting lead

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## theaigcaman (Aug 24, 2017)

Laytonnz said:


> Sand would be cheaper and less hastle then melting lead
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk



Concrete?


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## barnbwt (Aug 24, 2017)

Why not do epoxy granite?  It's not much more obnoxious than concrete, and has way better dampening properties than even cast iron (strength, too, but the steel handles that for either material)


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## theaigcaman (Aug 24, 2017)

barnbwt said:


> Why not do epoxy granite?  It's not much more obnoxious than concrete, and has way better dampening properties than even cast iron (strength, too, but the steel handles that for either material)



You got a good recipe that isn't prohibitively expensive?


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## Laytonnz (Aug 24, 2017)

To be honest there will be nothing " cheap " about this, you will spend more then a new lathe and will end up with with a less accurate machine. .. I don't mean to rain on ur perade, what do you call accurate?

You could end up with a fairly OK machine if you went for broke and brought best of the best parts

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## theaigcaman (Aug 24, 2017)

Laytonnz said:


> To be honest there will be nothing " cheap " about this, you will spend more then a new lathe and will end up with with a less accurate machine. .. I don't mean to rain on ur perade, what do you call accurate?
> 
> You could end up with a fairly OK machine if you went for broke and brought best of the best parts
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk



I expect no better than .005" overall accuracy. Although I don't really know what to expect.


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## caw_68 (Aug 25, 2017)

I built the gingery lathe and after some modifications it cuts very accurately. My tailstock is generally within .001" to .002" of the headstock.  With patience I can turn a part to the exact size needed. The the gingery lathe gets a bad rap for the bed flexing because it's built from aluminum and steel plate but I found it to be very ridged as long as you don't push it past its limits. Accuracy boils down to how tight all your parts mate together. That being said, building a lathe is a very labor intensive project with many hurdeles to jump through anproblems to be solved and I was following plans in a book!! I highly suggest finding some plans to build off of or build a semi working mock up out of wood and allthread first. If not it could become a very costly project that you'll probably never complete. It may not sound like it but I highly recommend building your own lathe, it was very enjoyable and rewarding and I may build a bigger one later on down the road. Sorry for the long post. Good luck


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## savarin (Aug 25, 2017)

I believe building the gingery lathe is worth its weight in gold from all the skills you learn.
It reinforces thinking outside the box which in my humble opinion is a good thing.


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## ericc (Aug 25, 2017)

I thought about building a lathe myself, but it is much easier to start with a basket case.  These can often be acquired for a low price.  You might even be able to find one for free.  Then, you can concentrate on fixing it and making the missing parts.  There is a glorious moment when the lathe is working well enough so it can make its own parts.


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## theaigcaman (Aug 25, 2017)

ericc said:


> I thought about building a lathe myself, but it is much easier to start with a basket case.  These can often be acquired for a low price.  You might even be able to find one for free.  Then, you can concentrate on fixing it and making the missing parts.  There is a glorious moment when the lathe is working well enough so it can make its own parts.



Basket case?


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## theaigcaman (Aug 25, 2017)

caw_68 said:


> I built the gingery lathe and after some modifications it cuts very accurately. My tailstock is generally within .001" to .002" of the headstock.  With patience I can turn a part to the exact size needed. The the gingery lathe gets a bad rap for the bed flexing because it's built from aluminum and steel plate but I found it to be very ridged as long as you don't push it past its limits. Accuracy boils down to how tight all your parts mate together. That being said, building a lathe is a very labor intensive project with many hurdeles to jump through anproblems to be solved and I was following plans in a book!! I highly suggest finding some plans to build off of or build a semi working mock up out of wood and allthread first. If not it could become a very costly project that you'll probably never complete. It may not sound like it but I highly recommend building your own lathe, it was very enjoyable and rewarding and I may build a bigger one later on down the road. Sorry for the long post. Good luck



Thanks much for the encouragement!

A lot of my inspiration is from makersize's videos of building the gingery lathe. I built a foundry furnace last summer and proceeded to melt my homemade refractory by trying to melt cast iron...
I'm not sure if I'm right, but I think that the steel tubing will be easier than making it out of aluminum. I also know of some local places that might be nice enough to help me with my project, such as milling some surfaces flat, or lathing a few parts, hence the "semi-diy" name. Really appreciate the moral support though!


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## Laytonnz (Aug 25, 2017)

theaigcaman said:


> Thanks much for the encouragement!
> 
> A lot of my inspiration is from makersize's videos of building the gingery lathe. I built a foundry furnace last summer and proceeded to melt my homemade refractory by trying to melt cast iron...
> I'm not sure if I'm right, but I think that the steel tubing will be easier than making it out of aluminum. I also know of some local places that might be nice enough to help me with my project, such as milling some surfaces flat, or lathing a few parts, hence the "semi-diy" name. Really appreciate the moral support though!


I done the same thing,  melted my refractory cement I turned it to glass....!

Lathing?  might sound better if you said machined

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## theaigcaman (Aug 25, 2017)

Laytonnz said:


> I done the same thing,  melted my refractory cement I turned it to glass....!
> 
> Lathing?  might sound better if you said machined
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk



'Scuse my vocabulary mr. Picky


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## Laytonnz (Aug 25, 2017)

theaigcaman said:


> 'Scuse my vocabulary mr. Picky


If you walked into a shop and said can you lathe this for me ... 

If you said can you "turn" this or "machine" this is just sounds better.. well to me anyhow.

Was only trying to help.

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## theaigcaman (Aug 25, 2017)

Laytonnz said:


> If you walked into a shop and said can you lathe this for me ...
> 
> If you said can you "turn" this or "machine" this is just sounds better.. well to me anyhow.
> 
> ...



Sorry if I came off as offended, I was just being silly, and you're right, I was just typing that super fast and didn't really put much effort into word choice.


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## DaveInMi (Aug 26, 2017)

theaigcaman said:


> Thanks much for the encouragement!
> 
> A lot of my inspiration is from makersize's videos of building the gingery lathe. I built a foundry furnace last summer and proceeded to melt my homemade refractory by trying to melt cast iron...
> I'm not sure if I'm right, but I think that the steel tubing will be easier than making it out of aluminum. I also know of some local places that might be nice enough to help me with my project, such as milling some surfaces flat, or lathing a few parts, hence the "semi-diy" name. Really appreciate the moral support though!


Since you are already set up for casting, I would encourage you to make another furnace in the future.  Casting aluminium is an economical (time & money) way to make future projects when you get your "semi-diy" lathe up and going.  I'm guessing you will want to make accessories or small parts that can be made of aluminium.


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## brino (Aug 26, 2017)

Hello @theaigcaman,

I just wanted to write a note of encouragement.

Let me address your original list:

1) this is a great place for this discussion

2) I believe there's a huge amount to learn by building your own machines. You will come out of it knowing every part of the machine intimately. You will be able to understand and debug any problems and invent your own solutions much better than on a machine you buy that starts out as a "black box". You will know the limits of the machine and their root cause.

3) Here (as you've seen) you will get a range of opinions, but no one will be aggressive or abusive. The moderators won't allow it. 
I see this build as a privately funded research project. It's your money to spend as you like. To me it will be a fantastic adventure, and I am already watching your thread.

4) As stated above, if you bought a low-end machine you would likely spend a large amount of time fixing, adjusting, squaring, aligning, scraping, replacing bearings, etc. anyway. Some are often described as a "kit" that needs rework. You are just taking it one step back and making your own kit.

5) The accuracy of the final machine is totally in your hands. I believe you are starting out with realistic goals.....but I also expect that you could surprise yourself (and any nay-sayers here). I could also see revisions to the first machine to increase the accuracy.

Please don't hesitate to ask questions, if only for "brain storming" solutions.
Please do keep us updated with ideas and pictures of your progress.
Thanks for sharing this build, it should be very interesting!

-brino


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## The Liberal Arts Garage (Aug 26, 2017)

Just short way from total ignorance.....How about ground  2.00 inch  tube filled 
with small shot & heavy gear oil. Has anybody done studies in this area    ?
Principle is valid, but , perhaps not useful in this app. .........BLJHB.


Laytonnz said:


> To be honest there will be nothing " cheap " about this, you will spend more then a new lathe and will end up with with a less accurate machine. .. I don't mean to rain on ur perade, what do you call accurate?
> 
> You could end up with a fairly OK machine if you went for broke and brought best of the best parts
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## theaigcaman (Aug 26, 2017)

The Liberal Arts Garage said:


> Just short way from total ignorance.....How about ground  2.00 inch  tube filled
> with small shot & heavy gear oil. Has anybody done studies in this area    ?
> Principle is valid, but , perhaps not useful in this app. .........BLJHB.



I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say here, can you clarify please?
Also idk what BLJHB means.


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## ericc (Aug 28, 2017)

Basket case?  I am not sure where the meaning comes from, but it brings to mind a whole bunch of milk boxes (baskets) full of parts and the Craigslist seller swearing that "everything's there".  I saw a lathe with an absolutely wrecked carriage in someone's garage.  I asked him what that piece of junk was doing there, and he said with a completely straight face, polishing, would you do that on a good lathe?  He had several junk beds that he was selling for $50 or so.  They would probably be a better starting point than casting that Gingery lathe bed.  Each of them was a hefty lift, so it would be less than $1 per pound.  Pouring a casting of that size is challenging, especially without help.


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## Desolus (Aug 28, 2017)

I see no reason at all why you can't get a very accurate machine, do you have any idea as to the size of the machine you are building?


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## DaveInMi (Aug 28, 2017)

ericc said:


> Basket case?  I am not sure where the meaning comes from, but it brings to mind a whole bunch of milk boxes (baskets) full of parts and the Craigslist seller swearing that "everything's there".  I saw a lathe with an absolutely wrecked carriage in someone's garage.  I asked him what that piece of junk was doing there, and he said with a completely straight face, polishing, would you do that on a good lathe?  He had several junk beds that he was selling for $50 or so.  They would probably be a better starting point than casting that Gingery lathe bed.  Each of them was a hefty lift, so it would be less than $1 per pound.  Pouring a casting of that size is challenging, especially without help.


Cast iron wood lathe beds might be a source as well.


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## The Liberal Arts Garage (Aug 28, 2017)

Best Love/Luck/ Jonathan H. Bateman. Just another thought  (Wndmill Charge?)about my
Belief that most of what is wrong with "Light" lathes is harmonic vibration. BLJHB.


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## The Liberal Arts Garage (Aug 30, 2017)

theaigcaman said:


> Basket case?


It might be better not to know, but in the interest of avoiding war, it is left over
FromWWI, and refers to a soldier who has lost all four limbs....... BLJHB


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## RandyM (Aug 31, 2017)

theaigcaman said:


> Basket case?



I have always equated this to things like cars, machines, and other assemblies that are unassembled and are stored in various baskets or containers. The new owner then has to haul home his prize in numerous baskets and containers to get it there safely.
Example: "This car/machine was a basket case when I bought it."


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## markba633csi (Aug 31, 2017)

That's interesting I thought it meant (originally) a person who weaves baskets all day- a hopeless case. 
Mark


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## core-oil (Aug 31, 2017)

I for one have absolutely no gripe with someone building a home made machine tool,  What did get up my nose some years ago on another forum, was a "Person" smashing up the most desirable and usable vintage machines to make castings to build a crap machine, Lovely old and good, machine tools that machine collectors would have loved and cherished,  As a youngster in a foundry many years ago, when smashed up machines came in in the scrap iron consignments, it used to break all our hearts, as we were melting down some one elses nice workmanship to make new machines.

These old machines were machines being replaced due to modernisation , I well remember one large factory with an  approx. one hundred year old faceplate lathe (the faceplate was about twenty feet in diameter, The headstock was a ships engine bedplate reconstituted to hold the huge bearings & mandrel which carried the big faceplate, at the front of the faceplate was a couple of old lathe beds & tool slides, The drive was a combination of gear wheels and flat leather belt cone pulleys,  This home made machine tool built by this old firm, no doubt on a shoe-string budget could really coil the cuttings of large castings ,  A super example of "A home made machine" in industry,   Getting back to home shop craftsmen, I saw a brilliant idea some years back of a lathe headstock made from a used motor car cylinder block, Whatever some one can cobble together , And they are happy and it works , That is a good outcome!


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