# Bought a 110 to 3Ph VFD



## Charley Davidson (May 16, 2012)

I called and ordered this VDF http://www.temcoindustrialpower.com/products/Variable_Frequency_Drives/C10003.html  It was $269.00 to my door, hope to have it Fri. I have a forklift lined up for unloading the mill if Benny lets me have it back :scared:  If all goes well my diabolical plan to take over the world will be in motion over the weekend


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## Gary Max (May 16, 2012)

Wish you the best of luck----heck we will be waiting on those pics. 110 to 3Ph VFD sounds very cool---- does it ramp up or dial.


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## OlCatBob (May 16, 2012)

Charley, I will bet you LOVE that thing, wait til you dial those hertz down and just keep "chipping away". Guaranteed to find a sweet spot without ever moving a belt, or changing a gear.
It sure looks like a nice machine!
Bob


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## jumps4 (May 16, 2012)

I have a question  
I have passed on some 3phase 440v items around here
 you can only get 220 not 440 here
you can run a 440 3ph off 220 1ph if you have a vfd?
i need to know this they give away 440 volt stuff around here
steve


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## Charley Davidson (May 16, 2012)

Gary Max said:


> does it ramp up or dail.





I'm thinking maybe you meant dial:headscratch::thinking:  if so it does not have a potentiometer they were out of that model and it was $25.00 more

Bob, you'll have to visit the shop soon now

Of course after ordering I found one for less than half of what I paid for this one:banghead::*****slap:


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## Charley Davidson (May 16, 2012)

jumps4 said:


> I have a question
> I have passed on some 3phase 440v items around here
> you can only get 220 not 440 here
> you can run a 440 3ph off 220 1ph if you have a vfd?
> ...



Don't know the answer on that but a lot of them are dual voltage 220/440 so if you can get the really cheap or free you should grab them.


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## jumps4 (May 16, 2012)

what i'm thinking about was a surface grinder for 200  but it was 440only
he had 440 only in the add so i'm sure he was asked
I'm going to check this out
I know you can overdrive the motor speed
hummm
 so your mill is 220/440 3ph
get your mill running and let us know how it works
thank you 
steve


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## Gary Max (May 16, 2012)

I know you can have a 440 3ph motor rewound to 220 3ph.


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## 8ntsane (May 16, 2012)

jumps4 said:


> what i'm thinking about was a surface grinder for 200 but it was 440only
> he had 440 only in the add so i'm sure he was asked
> I'm going to check this out
> I know you can overdrive the motor speed
> ...




Hi Steve
Take a look around in the usuall places for a 220>440 transformer. Thats the easyest way to get hooked up. I run my 5hp lathe with a 220>600Volt transformer as I wasnt about to change out the motor. The motor on my machine is allso 1200 rpm, and they are not very common.

I also run a VFD on this same machine. So your only a tranformer away from making it work. You allso have options depending on your power supply. Meaning if you have 220 single phase off the wall, you can run into a single phase transformer> to VFD> to machine.

Or, if using a rotary phase conveter RPC, 220 single phase in  to the RPC, the RPC will out put 3-phase out,> to 3 phase 220-440 transformer> to machine.


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## jumps4 (May 16, 2012)

it must not exist it's not on ebay   ha ha ha
steve


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## jumps4 (May 16, 2012)

yes a 220 to 440 step up transformer and a 220 1ph to 220 3ph vfd would work if the price was right
something new to look for on craigs list
as soon as i see 440 i pass it by
I gotta stop doing my own thinking!
steve


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## 8ntsane (May 16, 2012)

jumps4 said:


> yes a 220 to 440 step up transformer and a 220 1ph to 220 3ph vfd would work if the price was right
> something new to look for on craigs list
> as soon as i see 440 i pass it by
> I gotta stop doing my own thinking!
> steve



Steve
I just looked on my local kijiji, they are all over the place. I think its 1.5 KVA per hp you would be looking for. A transformer should be a easy find for a couple hundred bucks max


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## jumps4 (May 16, 2012)

thanks guys 
i love it when i learn something new
easy problem solved
now how to get a transformer in the back yard past the wife........
thanks 
steve


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## jumps4 (May 16, 2012)

i hope i didnt offend you charley
I kind of changed the subject
but i am watching your thread on my email
steve


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## Charley Davidson (May 21, 2012)

The VFD was waiting on me on the front porch today when I got home, Cute little thing  Benny is gonna get up at 5:30 am and load my Bridgeport for me and deliver it:whistle:
Ok I can dream, but I do have a fork truck lined up for tomorrow so if he's up to it and it don't rain it will be at my shop tomorrow:biggrin:


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## PurpLev (May 21, 2012)

cool. thats what I use to power up my clausing lathe. for the smaller motors it works great.


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## Charley Davidson (May 22, 2012)

Benny has a good idea for hooking up my VFD so I can use it on more than one machine, I want to run it by some of you electrical experts and see if there are any reasons not to do it this way.

He suggested that first we leave the switch in the on position and remove the handle/knob instead of hooking it straight to the motor bypassing the switch. The second is to put in a twist lock connector to disconnect the mill and be able to plug the grinder into the VFD.

I can't really afford another VFD so this would be great if it's not gonna cause any damage to it.


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## Hawkeye (May 22, 2012)

As long as your motors both use the same voltage, there is no problem sharing. Check out this thread: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/4971-Two-for-One-VFD

The relay route costs a fair bit. 3-phase twistlocks will work well. Just make sure the power is off when you're changing machines. My motors aren't even the same RPM and it works great. The built-in tach sensors really make the installation sweet.


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## bcall2043 (May 24, 2012)

Looking for some advice from those of you who have installed and are using a VFD to drive your 1 HP or less hobby machine motors. The drive Charley has purchased is from an international industrial company, not a cheap Chinese clone. The manual is very detailed and written to cover most industrial installations. 

1. The first question is about a breaker on the supply line side specified by the manual. I would think a fuse would work as well and would be less trouble to come up with and mount. 

2. The second question is about the use shielded power cable between the VFD and the motor. Have any of you used regular unshielded motor cable and if so have you experienced any problems? 

3. The next question is about the use of line and load reactors. The manual seems to indicate that these last items are optional depending on a number of factors. Did any of you install any of these?

4. Finally for applications like the hobby machinist where there or no low voltage control circuits, PLC, computers and the like running nearby at the same time how much of this added stuff is really needed? I don't consider it a problem if Charley's radio has a hum while he machines.:lmao: I know in the industrial applications these things are used as "good practice" and problems arise if not applied correctly. 

Looking for what you guys are doing in the real world of the Hobby-Machinist?

Thanks,
Benny


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## Hawkeye (May 27, 2012)

I have a question. Has anyone actually used a VFD to power a higher-voltage motor _through_ a transformer? I'm wondering if the transformer, which was designed for a specific frequency (50 _or_ 60 Hz), can pass the speed-control variables on to the motor reliably. The VFD works by changing the frequency to the motor. I have mine set for 10 Hz to 90 Hz, but it can go up to 200 Hz.

I'm pretty sure you would have no problem raising the voltage from 220 to 440 single-phase through the transformer and then using a 440V VFD to change single-phase to 3-phase and control the motor speed. Just don't know about using the cheaper VFD ahead of a 3-phase transformer.

The costs could balance out - single-phase, lower-voltage VFD  with 3-phase transformer vs single-phase transformer with higher-voltage VFD. All things being equal, I'd up the voltage first, then convert to 3-phase with control.


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## burnrider (May 27, 2012)

I'm trying a KB electronics VFD for drill press capable of speed variance and fwd/rev. KB(Galco) sells a simple VFD for $135 to turn 110v in 3 phase. The motor is a 3 phase/1 hp/ 60 hz/ 1725 century motor. It was $55 delivered on Ebay. 

Just pulled the motor apart, cleaned it, lubed the shield bearings and painted it for use. I installed a 1/8" steel mounting plate w/ 4 hardened 10-24 button heads into the motor case. Also removed the end wiring cover and inside plastic shield. Won't need it as wiring is side-exited. The open hole will be wire guard shielded for computer fan cooling. Low speed reduces cooling, they recommend a 100 cfm ($10) computer fan for continuous cooling.

Now the site is back, I'll collect some pics and post. Still need to bench wire it for a test, then mount up for final use. KB electronics offers excellent phone support for questions. The manual answers most of them up front.

Bill in Idaho used DC treadmill motors for this purpose. That still might be the best route, but the Century will bolt up to existing mount. We still have to see if it delivers the goods.

Later.

Thanks to admin for getting HM on line.


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## bcall2043 (May 30, 2012)

bcall2043 said:


> Looking for some advice from those of you who have installed and are using a VFD to drive your 1 HP or less hobby machine motors................
> 
> 1. The first question is about a breaker on the supply line side specified by the manual. I would think a fuse would work as well and would be less trouble to come up with and mount.
> 
> ...



No one responded with their experiences so this is what we did:

Intalled the VFD with a fuse rather than a breaker. Using the wall plug for disconnect. Installed existing power cable from VFD to motor without shielding as that was all we had. Did not have or install any inductor/reactors filtering in the power lines. The VFD is working in local mode from its built in control panel. No external switches or potentiometer for Start/Stop and Speed control. We will add these later when we gather the right parts and some shielded twisted-pair control wire. 

I suspect that if Charley creates too much EMI noise on the power lines the police/sheriff facility next door will let him know about it. :lmao::lmao: He can make chips in his own shop any time he wants day or night. We will learn soon enough if all that protection is really needed!

Benny


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## Charley Davidson (May 30, 2012)

As Benny said we got her hooked up and making chips, got a bit of a learning curve for setting perimeters and all it's capabilities. I set the pulleys to the fastest setting so I would have full speed range just by using the VFD. I don't think I need to use the back gears for anything now (correct me if I'm wrong). When running wide open in the top speed position on the belt/pulley it seems like it is running faster than the stated 2700 RPM, is there a chance I'm spinning too fast?

Here's some pics of the setup/install


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## Charley Davidson (May 30, 2012)

By the way, the mounting arm is actually a swing arm for a .50 cal. machine gun so it should be bullet proof:biggrin:


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## bcall2043 (May 30, 2012)

CluelessNewB said:


> I have 3 VFD's in my shop...................
> 
> None have dedicated fuses or circuit breakers.............
> 
> ...



Thanks, Clueless, I kind of suspected that. Charley will be a good test for need of the "good practice" thing. The police department has a lot of sensitive equipment next door. If his VFD causes trouble it will be him in hot water not me, "I don't know who he is".:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Benny


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## Charley Davidson (May 30, 2012)

bcall2043 said:


> Thanks, Clueless, I kind of suspected that. Charley will be a good test for need of the "good practice" thing. The police department has a lot of sensitive equipment next door. If his VFD causes trouble it will be him in hot water not me, "I don't know who he is".:lmao::lmao::lmao:
> 
> Benny



They got your license plate picture on that new camera/software they were installing while you were talking to them:lmao:


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## OlCatBob (May 30, 2012)

Charley and Benny,

"1. The first question is about a breaker on the supply line side specified by the manual. I would think a fuse would work as well and would be less trouble to come up with and mount. 

2. The second question is about the use shielded power cable between the VFD and the motor. Have any of you used regular unshielded motor cable and if so have you experienced any problems? 

3. The next question is about the use of line and load reactors. The manual seems to indicate that these last items are optional depending on a number of factors. Did any of you install any of these?

4. Finally for applications like the hobby machinist where there or no low voltage control circuits, PLC, computers and the like running nearby at the same time how much of this added stuff is really needed? I don't consider it a problem if Charley's radio has a hum while he machines. I know in the industrial applications these things are used as "good practice" and problems arise if not applied correctly. "

1. I just put in a service disconnect, and am using the breaker in my main entrance box.
2. I'm using 600V industrial wire from the disconnect to the VFD.
   I'm using 600V industrial wire from the VFD to a 20A 3 phase female twist-lock socket.
   I have a male twist-lock plug on the mill and the shaper.
3. No load reactors.
4. I cant hear any hum when I'm using either machine, (my hearing isn't all that good due to race cars, heavy equipment, loud music, etcetera...)

I still haven't found you at the shop Charley... I'll keep trying though.


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## Charley Davidson (May 30, 2012)

OlCatBob said:


> I still haven't found you at the shop Charley... I'll keep trying though.



I know you have my # cause you called me at least once, call when you want to stop by and I'll be there. You Gotta See This Place!!!!:yikes:


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## jumps4 (May 31, 2012)

I have been doing a lot of reading on vfd's for a project I am planning and from what i see the vfd if outputting more than 60hz is overdriving the motor speed. this is what i wanted for my project because
the motor was 1750 and a higher speed will work better for milling aluminum. I'm going to change the motor on a brand new mill to 3 phase just so i can do this.
steve


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## Hawkeye (Jun 1, 2012)

Keep in mind that it is possible to over-drive a motor too much. My VFD will go to 200 Hz. It would take a very well-built motor to stand that much speed before it starts to throw chunks. :yikes:

I have mine set to max out at 90 Hz and I haven't had any trouble.


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