# Installed an Enco x axis table feed on the B'port



## Monk (Apr 23, 2014)

Got the Power table feed installed:
First, I removed the crank handle, graduation dial, and bearing bracket from the table, and replaced the bracket with the one supplied in the kit. 





ThenI fit the new drive gear into the graduation dial and began experimenting with the shims supplied until I got everything spaced and operating smoothly (with the ENCO drive this is all trial and error, since the instructions are non-existent. It wasn't all that hard, just time consuming.  Scratched my head a bit when the hand crank extended all the way to the end of the table screw.  Then I noticed the sleeved nut (fits inside the crank and around the threaded end of the table screw). Everything tightened up and works just fine. 





Best part is, I was using  the 15% off and free shipping promotion code when I noticed that the unit was marked down from $399 to $299 to start with.It cost me $250 and change delivered. I'm a happy camper!


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## RandyM (Apr 24, 2014)

That is one up-grade that is well werth the cost. You'll not be sorry you did it. It turned out very nice.

:thankyou: for the post, well documented.


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## frostheave (Apr 24, 2014)

Thanks for the post Monk.  I just received the exact same power feed from Enco.  Hopefully my install will
go as smoothly as yours.  Ya gotta love their sales!

To go with the power feed, I bought a new Acer 3VS E-Mill and it's on it's way to the barge for the trip to 
Alaska.  I can't wait to get it setup and install the new power feed.  

How much travel did you lose in the X direction with the power feed?  Do you like it so far?

Below is a pic of the new mill.




Bob


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## Monk (Apr 24, 2014)

Thanks, Bob. That looks like a very cool addition you have to accessorize your table feed :thumbsup:. I don't think I lost anything in travel. the table will still run right up to the bearing bracket, and the unit recesses inside it... I'll take another look and let you know if it's anything significant. I think you lose about 1/2" off the very end of the screw, (that's why you have to use the recessed nut), but I think the travel is about the same.


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## RandyM (Apr 25, 2014)

With out verifying, I agree with Monk. Adding the power does not remove any travel. It is one of the best up-grades you can make to a mill.

Frostheave, be sure and post pics of the real machine when it arrives.


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## frostheave (Apr 25, 2014)

Thanks for the reply Monk.  I have never had a knee mill before so this will be a new experience.  Most of the specs I looked at on the net showed a reduced X travel on mills with a power feed installed.  I got the impression it was a universal truth that power feed reduced travel.  I am glad to hear that is not true.

Yes Randy, I will take and post many pictures!  One of the most frustrating things while doing my mill search was the lack of good pictures on the net.  Hopefully I can increase the availability, at least for this mill.

Bob


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## Monk (Apr 25, 2014)

Bob: I finally got out to the garage and checked. If you are looking at the stopping point being the point at which the table end aligns with the bed edge on either side, the table moves 9 inches either direction for a total of 18 inches of travel. On my 9x36 that's supposed to be correct and has not changed with the addition of the power feed. Hope this helps! Now I'm trying to figure how I want to mount the DRO scales. I'll post when I do.

Dave


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## frostheave (Apr 25, 2014)

Monk said:


> Bob: I finally got out to the garage and checked. If you are looking at the stopping point being the point at which the table end aligns with the bed edge on either side, the table moves 9 inches either direction for a total of 18 inches of travel. On my 9x36 that's supposed to be correct and has not changed with the addition of the power feed. Hope this helps! Now I'm trying to figure how I want to mount the DRO scales. I'll post when I do.
> 
> Dave



That's great Dave.  Thanks for checking.  I too will be installing a DRO and look forward to seeing your progress.  Are you installing a 2, 3, or 4 axis?  If 3 axis, will the scale go on the quill or the knee?

I am debating between a 3 axis and a 4 axis.  It sure seems that having a scale on the knee and one on the quill would be just too versatile to go without.  I spent a ton of money, for me, on this mill and am trying to do it right this time!  Below is the 4 axis DRO I am considering from Dro Pros.


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## Monk (Apr 25, 2014)

Bob: Amazing! I was on their site looking for mounting ideas whenyou posted. I went with a 3 axis Shars unit mostly because P'm doing this on the cheap (I spent my wad on the mill). Also, I put one of their 2 axis units on my Grizzly G1007's a while back http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php?t=21684 with no problems. The 3 axis for the Bport has a knee scale. Not sure how well this will work for me as I was used to using a quill mounted vernier caliper scale on the Grizzly for the fine feed, and got really used to it. I was concerned with the fitment of a glass scale to the quill, but now I wish I had. From everything I've heard the folks at DRO Pro offer great after sale help, so I think you are definitely going the right way. I have heard of guys getting a splitter and toggling back and forth between the knee and quill on the 3 axis read out, but don't know if it's possible or not. I may try that in the future. Others say forget about it.They just zero, and do the fine adjustmentswith the knee, which (to this novice at least) seems kinda clunky. Good luck, and please keep us posted!


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## frostheave (Apr 26, 2014)

Hi Monk.  I know what you mean about running out of cash!  The mill was $7,575, which really was a pretty good price, then add $375 for a crate, plus $1,608 for shipping to Alaska.  This is not a cheap hobby!  That is why it is so tough to pull the trigger on a $1,500 DRO.

Yeah, I imagine it will be different getting used to using the knee instead of the quill.  I have read a little about the splitter box and I do have an electronics engineering degree.  Maybe I'll try to build one!

You made some extremely nice scale brackets on your Grizzly mill install!  I'm sure the knee mill will turn out great.  Keep at it!


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## Monk (Apr 27, 2014)

Thanks, Frostheave. I got the x axis scale mounted late Saturday nite, but haven't got the display mounted and programmed so I haven't had a chance to test it. Working 4 tens this week so it will take me a while to get back to it. I'll let you know how it goes. Let me know if you work out the toggle box. Have a good one!


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## RandyM (Apr 28, 2014)

frostheave said:


> I am debating between a 3 axis and a 4 axis.  It sure seems that having a scale on the knee and one on the quill would be just too versatile to go without.  I spent a ton of money, for me, on this mill and am trying to do it right this time!  Below is the 4 axis DRO I am considering from Dro Pros.



I am in the middle of the same delema. Here is a poll I took to get further input from our knowledgeable members.

Just this past weekend I discovered that the 4 axis would be the way I am headed. I had a job that really lent itself to having readout on the quil. And I certainly can see the value in having it on the knee. Make sure you keep us up to date.


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## chuckorlando (Apr 28, 2014)

You will love the PF and dro. Dro really speeds things up and pf makes them prettier.


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## frostheave (Apr 28, 2014)

Hi Randy.  Thanks for the link to the poll.  I was a bit surprised the majority vote was for 4 axis.  I agree, 4 is the way to go.  So, that being said, I'll probably have to go manual and save for a while.  

And, if I am going this far, I should probably get a touch probe as well.  This is really adding up!  The DroPros EL-400 with probe would be $1,995 and the EL-700 with probe would be $2,205.  I wonder if the EL-700 LCD display would be worth the extra $210.  Being a visual person, a graphical display would really be a plus.  

Like I said, it sure would be nice to do it Right this time.


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## bronk (Apr 28, 2014)

I just ordered a 4 axis unit from tpactools. http://www.tpactools.com/4-AXIS-DRO...ORT-MILL-PACKAGE-ALL-4-GLASS-SCALES_p_55.html
I have their 3 axis unit on my enco RF30 clone which has served me well. Plus the support was very good. 
I had bought the old one with 2 glass scales and a converted mag scale for the quill. The mag scale died after 4 years of the 5 yr warranty. I was able to upgrade to glass scale for only $50 for the trade up from the failed mag scale with very prompt shipping.
I will post photos as I get it installed.


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## LEEQ (Apr 29, 2014)

frostheave said:


> That's great Dave.  Thanks for checking.  I too will be installing a DRO and look forward to seeing your progress.  Are you installing a 2, 3, or 4 axis?  If 3 axis, will the scale go on the quill or the knee?
> 
> I am debating between a 3 axis and a 4 axis.  It sure seems that having a scale on the knee and one on the quill would be just too versatile to go without.  I spent a ton of money, for me, on this mill and am trying to do it right this time!  Below is the 4 axis DRO I am considering from Dro Pros.
> 
> View attachment 75362


I really am enjoying my 400, but wish they had the 700 in 4 axis when I bought it. They have a package deal on a touch probe also now. I asked for both of these things and would have dropped the cash to get them had they been available.


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## RandyM (Apr 29, 2014)

LEEQ said:


> I really am enjoying my 400, but wish they had the 700 in 4 axis when I bought it. They have a package deal on a touch probe also now. I asked for both of these things and would have dropped the cash to get them had they been available.



Is the 700 worth the upgrade?


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## LEEQ (Apr 29, 2014)

You'll have to answer that yourself, but check out the pics of the display and any video they have of it. I would have done it, but I knew I wanted 4 axis dro's.


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## frostheave (May 3, 2014)

Monk: So I am in the process of decoding the quadrature signals from a DRO Pros glass scale.  I was looking at Yuriy's OPEN DRO (http://www.yuriystoys.com/p/android-dro.html) but got frustrated trying to find the Arduino MCU code so I decided to try it from scratch.  The hope is to use glass scales and display the X, Y, Z, and Z' locations on a laptop and/or a tablet.  I bought a TMAX tablet at Sams for $80 (http://www.samsclub.com/sams/sample-20t/prod11650576.ip?navAction=). I'll use it for testing.  It has a very nice display for the money!  If it works, I'll do a full post.

bronk:  That's a heck of a price on a 4 axis DRO!  

Randy:  The real e-Mill has arrived!  I am creating a post now.

Bob


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## ronboult (May 4, 2014)

Hi Bob

I installed a 3 Axis DRO on my small mill. It was a Easson ES12 with glass scales from Hong Kong. The scales they supplied were SinPo and Sino.
Two things to watch with glass scales.

They are much larger than the Electronica Magnetic scales supplied by DroPros and would be much harder to fit to the quill. I recommend you investigate Magnetic scales. Magnetic scales are also coolant proof.

Also some of my scales were supplied with an integrated Backing Plate and Cover. Much easier to fit the Backing Plate first and true up then the actual scale goes drops on. Piece of cake.
This is particularly useful when fitting to uneven surfaces such as the Y and Z axis. Not so important fitting to the X ( back of the table) which is machined.
Hope this helps
Ron


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## frostheave (May 4, 2014)

ronboult said:


> Hi Bob
> 
> I installed a 3 Axis DRO on my small mill. It was a Easson ES12 with glass scales from Hong Kong. The scales they supplied were SinPo and Sino.
> Two things to watch with glass scales.
> ...



Thanks Ron.  Yeah, I actually have both types of scales from DRO Pros. I have the glass scales on my small mill and the magnetic on my lathe.  You are right, the magnetic scales are much smaller and I can see how they would be an easier fit on the quill.  I haven't investigated the quadrature signals on the magnetic scales yet, but I think they may use RS-422 signals rather than simple A and B signals.

Do you have any pictures of the "integrated Backing Plate and Cover." I'd really like to see that.  It sounds like a great idea!

Bob


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## ronboult (May 5, 2014)

Bob
If you go to the M-DRO website,  they show the Backing Plate & Protective covers (http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/digita...tive-cover-suitable-for-gs300-620-scales.html) They are available from a number of manufacturers. The ones that I have were supplied with Sino Scales from China.

Also the Tech specs for glass scales (http://www.agl-distribution.co.uk/docs/mdro/m-dro-gs300-encoders_technical.pdf) and Magnetic scales (http://www.agl-distribution.co.uk/docs/mdro/dro-el-s1_techincal.pdf) are shown. From my limited knowledge the electrical outputs  for Glass & Magnetic Scales  are identical 5 volt TTL Quadrature, but the connections in the DB9 plugs on each are different. 

In fact M-DRO actually sell an adapter to enable Electronica Magnetic scales on a Easson Display (Normally glass scales). See http://www.agl-distribution.co.uk/docs/mdro/console-encoder-compatibility_techincal.pdf. I am just about to order an Electronica 1uM magnetic scale and adapter from M-DRO to use on my Lathe cross slide with an Easson ES12 Display. I am awaiting them to get back to me with a price. The Z axis will remain a 5uM glass scale

Ron


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## frostheave (May 7, 2014)

ronboult said:


> Bob
> If you go to the M-DRO website,  they show the Backing Plate & Protective covers (http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/digita...tive-cover-suitable-for-gs300-620-scales.html) They are available from a number of manufacturers. The ones that I have were supplied with Sino Scales from China.
> 
> Also the Tech specs for glass scales (http://www.agl-distribution.co.uk/docs/mdro/m-dro-gs300-encoders_technical.pdf) and Magnetic scales (http://www.agl-distribution.co.uk/docs/mdro/dro-el-s1_techincal.pdf) are shown. From my limited knowledge the electrical outputs  for Glass & Magnetic Scales  are identical 5 volt TTL Quadrature, but the connections in the DB9 plugs on each are different.
> ...



Hi Ron.  I replied a couple of days ago but I see my post did not post.  Not sure why.  Anyway, thanks for the info, just what I needed.  I will definitely check out the backing plates.  They look like they could really help.

Looking at the pinouts on my scales, the glass scales have 5v TTL A and B quadrature while the magnetic appears to have RS-422 A A', B B' quadrature output.  After some investigation, it looks like the RS-422 magnetic scales can be used in TTL mode with just the A and B signals.  I'll put the scope on them and report back.


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## hvontres (May 7, 2014)

frostheave said:


> Hi Ron.  I replied a couple of days ago but I see my post did not post.  Not sure why.  Anyway, thanks for the info, just what I needed.  I will definitely check out the backing plates.  They look like they could really help.
> 
> Looking at the pinouts on my scales, the glass scales have 5v TTL A and B quadrature while the magnetic appears to have RS-422 A A', B B' quadrature output.  After some investigation, it looks like the RS-422 magnetic scales can be used in TTL mode with just the A and B signals.  I'll put the scope on them and report back.



Actually, your best bet would be to put a differential reciever chip close to your readout. That way you can run the A A' B B' signals for improved noise immunity. Something like this http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/slls115e/slls115e.pdf will handle two scales and can be had for a whopping $0.96 at mouser


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## frostheave (May 7, 2014)

hvontres said:


> Actually, your best bet would be to put a differential reciever chip close to your readout. That way you can run the A A' B B' signals for improved noise immunity. Something like this http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/slls115e/slls115e.pdf will handle two scales and can be had for a whopping $0.96 at mouser



Thanks for the heads up Henry.  It may come to that.  To start with I will be using AB glass scales with the following interface chip

http://www.usdigital.com/products/interfaces/ics/LFLS7183

to count interrupt driven edge triggers with an Arduino.  The 7183 relieves the MCU from processing the quadrature signals, including direction, and it just has to count up or down and display the position.  In my simulation on the Arduino, it should be able to handle at least 200 inches per minute.  I'll see what happens.

Bob


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## ronboult (Jun 10, 2014)

Hi Bob
I have just received an Electronica 1uM magnetic scale from Allendale ( Machine DRO) in the UK along with the Type 10 adapter cable required to connect it to my Easson ES12.

Plugged it in , adjusted the resolution and it works perfectly. I suspect that if you just rearranged the connection in the DB9 plug to match those of glass scale connections you would not even need the connector.

Clearly the output of the magnetic scales include the _5 volt TTL Quadrature signal similar to glass scales
Cheers
Ron_


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## frostheave (Jun 11, 2014)

ronboult said:


> Hi Bob
> I have just received an Electronica 1uM magnetic scale from Allendale ( Machine DRO) in the UK along with the Type 10 adapter cable required to connect it to my Easson ES12.
> 
> Plugged it in , adjusted the resolution and it works perfectly. I suspect that if you just rearranged the connection in the DB9 plug to match those of glass scale connections you would not even need the connector.
> ...



Hi Ron,

Thanks so much for the great info.  I had read somewhere that the magnetic scales could be used by connecting only the A, B, and GND pins, i.e. not using the scales in differential mode.  You have confirmed this is true, and saved me some time!

Bob


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