# DRO for Vertical Mill or Lathe - Info & experiences



## middle.road

OK gang, The accounting department headed by SWKB, notified me this morning over coffee and I have been given the go ahead to procure one for the Bridgeport.
Leave it to Mi'Lady to squeeze the budget turnip. (Bless her)
It's been almost three years since I setup my hunk o' iron and found out the'X'-axis scale was busted all to h*ll. I've had a 'notifier' setup on ebay for over two years now for the Mitutoyo parts but nothing came up.
I won't be able to go top shelf so I'm looking at AliExpress. (as I have been for a couple years now...)

I'd like to start this thread to gather input and info from those that have bought an import set in last couple of years.
I've been searching through the site but the threads regarding DRO's are scattered all over.

Magnetic would definitely be the way to go, but since the budget is limited - I'm thinking of a 1μm 3-axis Glass Scale setup for ~$300.00
DroProshas (IMO), one of the best sites on the web for information and a very good warranty, but I can't afford the ~$700.00+ for a set.
(Would love to have their LCD panel offering.)

Kurt (@*19E60*) mentioned in another threadthat he bought this one -=- LINK -=-
EDIT: Eddy's (@*Eddyde*)  Easson DRO Install <-- saw this just after I posted...
And I know there's a few more but can't find them. So I'm taking the easy way out and asking for assistance and input/info.
I'd like to procure one and get it installed and get it up and running ASAP. I've been limping along for too long.
I'm not any good at using the vernier dials with backlash, (don't have the touch) and have been scrapping too many pieces.

Thanks!


----------



## rock_breaker

I searched "Machinist Digital Readout scales"on Ebay and came up with more choices than I really needed in the $300 +/- range, made a decision and am waiting for delivery. Perhaps you might be interested in the variety shown as well the  dealer has a 99.4% reliability rating at Ebay so am hoping for the best.


----------



## middle.road

I didn't see this Thread until this evening... Kinda of a duplicate of effort.   
What I'd really like to find out is experiences with specific sets. I remember a while back (1+ years ago) someone had bought a set and the reader heads were on rub blocks and not bearings.


----------



## middle.road

Spent that last couple of days going at it and comparing every possible DRO I could find.
Going to need go cheap-cheap, and get the Siton 3-Axis Kit. Wish I could go top-shelf but that isn't the case. 
Late last night when I finally packed it in it was at $294 ...
Get up this morning, grab coffee, sit down and refreshed the page and it was $425.00. The dogs cowered when I let out a cry of angst.
Took all day but finally in the last half an hour the price has dropped back down. Pheeeew.

I hope these scales are decent....


----------



## atunguyd

Look at the touch dro option (google it). Start off with the igaging readers if you are in a budget and add proper readers as you want to upgrade.

The touch dro software out performs even the top off the counter DROs on features, plus since it is using a tablet you have a wealth of other things you can do with it. How many other DROs can you browse these forums on 

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


----------



## Eddyde

middle.road said:


> Spent that last couple of days going at it and comparing every possible DRO I could find.
> Going to need go cheap-cheap, and get the Siton 3-Axis Kit.



That's the vendor I bought from, it was a good experience and the DRO works great.


----------



## Z2V

The description is for .001mm scales but the photos show .005mm scales. I’m curious which one they are shipping.
It’s a great price either way


----------



## f350ca

I recently bought the same read head with .005 mm scales from the same seller. 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hig...RO-and-3-pieces-linear-scales/1708239801.html
You might want to consider the coarse scales. 0.0002 inch resolution is more than you can expect from a manual mill.

Greg


----------



## middle.road

atunguyd said:


> Look at the touch dro option (google it). Start off with the igaging readers if you are in a budget and add proper readers as you want to upgrade.
> The touch dro software out performs even the top off the counter DROs on features, plus since it is using a tablet you have a wealth of other things you can do with it. How many other DROs can you browse these forums on


Most definitely. I've been lusting to install TouchDRO for a couple of years now. I have a great 10" tablet sitting here ready to be put to use. I had a line on some used scales a couple of years ago and Yuriy helped a great deal trying to figure out if they would work. I couldn't determine the mfg of the scales - found them at a 'used equipment dealer' and he'd received them in a big lot of items.
I was looking at Ditron scales also back in late '16, and they came out to (funny enough) $293.00. The iG Absolutes came out to ~$285.
I want to get Yuriy's fully assembled board @~$80, so I'll be putting that off onto the next wish list. I stressed the budget with the ALoris BXA purchase and need to get some holders.
I figure that with this set I can get it up and running and use the head for the time being and then purchase Yuriy's Pre-fabbed board.
I've been making do with a short iGaging scale on the 'X' currently and using the 'Y' on the old Mitutoyo. 



Eddyde said:


> That's the vendor I bought from, it was a good experience and the DRO works great.





Z2V said:


> The description is for .001mm scales but the photos show .005mm scales. I’m curious which one they are shipping.
> It’s a great price either way





f350ca said:


> I recently bought the same read head with .005 mm scales from the same seller.
> -=- LINK -=-
> You might want to consider the coarse scales. 0.0002 inch resolution is more than you can expect from a manual mill.
> Greg


- @Eddyde , & @Greg, How was the mounting hardware guys? I'm mostly interested in the 'guards' so that I can avoid having to fabricate any. I figure I'll be able to utilize parts of the mounts holding the Mitutoyo and then fab the 'Z' from scratch.

- @Jeff, Yeah, their pictures and documentation leave a lot to be desired at times. they better be 1μm...

- @Greg, I figure to go with the 1μm's mostly due to paranoia. I read something, somewhere else, one or two years ago about the scales being out of calibration at the outer ends and there was a reply with someone hypothesizing, that the manufacturer was having difficulties with the 5μm's. I'm going to assume that their mfg processes have improved the last couple of years.
5μm's are more than adequate given my skill level, but having 36" of travel and only @~$20 per scale I'm might contradict my whining about the budget, and go for the 1μm's, maybe, perhaps. Heck, I may change my mind when I finally order it this afternoon or tomorrow.

Thank you gang for responding - I appreciate it. Hearing that y'all bought from Siton relieves my mind a great deal.


----------



## Eddyde

Dan,
The mounting kit contained cast aluminum brackets. Though they looked sturdy enough, I opted to not use them and make my own mounting system. Mainly because I want to eventually use the scales for CNC retrofit and felt I should make installation as robust as possible. I also got the 1μm scales and for the same reason, eventual CNC... If I was only going to use the mill manually, I would have used the included brackets and ordered the 5μm scales.
Although I bought the Eason unit from Siton, the scales and hardware look to be the exactly same as the ones in your link and the uncharge for the 1μm's was the same, $20 apiece.


----------



## middle.road

The Panel on the Easson is nicely laid out. Better than the others.
Personally I'd prefer the old 'click' style buttons of the Mito like the old computer keyboards, but they are all membrane style now.
Will have to get TouchDRO then I'll just have to deal with my fat/flat fingers.

I've got a bunch of Aluminum angle & plate to put to use, sheet metal for guards, not so much...


----------



## middle.road

EDIT: Pulled the trigger at midnight EST. Now to start marking down the days. And perhaps clean out around the mill so I can mount it.
Boy dealing with Aliexpress checkout was a Joy - not... 
Took (6) attempts and two cards after Paypal failed.
Wilson @ Siton responded quickly to PM's sent through Aliexpress.


Would anyone want to double check my numbers before I order? I truly really don't want to mess this up cause of a bad math day.
I'm assuming they want the *'L'* dimension when ordering. So:
950mm for 'X'
350mm for 'Y'
450mm for 'Z'
........................................ Thanks, _Dan


----------



## middle.road

Well, so much for a decent delivery time... Ordered on the 7th, and they weren't able to fulfill it before the 'Spring Festival' started... *SIGH*
I thought that a week would have been plenty of time for them to ship it out. Appears that the Holiday started on the 15th. 
Note to self: Must take into consideration Chinese New Year/Spring Festival holiday when ordering around February. . .


		Code:
	

Wilson Huang: Dear, Dan
Thanks for the order.
Now our Chinese is having China Spring Festival holiday, the shipping company, customs office and our company all stopped working.
Sorry we have to ship after holiday, we have the product in stock, once holiday finish which will takes 10-12 days, we will send out as soon as possible.
Thanks for the support.
Best regards,
Wilson


----------



## ttabbal

That explains why I haven't heard back after asking a question. No big deal.


----------



## f350ca

LOL mine was held up over Christmas and New years. Any excuse for a holiday.

Greg


----------



## Bob Korves

Mine came in about 2 1/2 weeks, which was fine with me because I am not in any hurry to install it.  The mill is completely usable as is, and warmer weather is coming...


----------



## rock_breaker

Placed an order for a DRO  on 2/2/18, received an email stating it would be delivered during the period 2/5/18 and 2/8/18. Received another email saying it would arrive on 2/12/18. It did around 5:00 pm which is typical for UPS in this area. Packages were in good condition.
Started thinking like a machinist: precision accurate equipment should be installed with the fewest components and be the most rigid; so the X axis power feed is going to be moved since  it is an adjustable anyway. The X axis read out scale will go on the front of the table..
Have a good day
Ray


----------



## Bob Korves

I am also ruminating on just how to install the scales.  I will not be letting any of the current features of the mill become disabled or made inconvenient, like table hard stops, power feed soft stops, axis locks, etc.  I will not allow any travel to be lost in any axis.  At the same time that I am adding the DRO, I will also be adding Y axis chip guard way covers and planning how to install a Servo Y axis power feed, which I have, but need to clean up first and design the mounting to a machine it was not meant to fit on (Millrite.)  Nothing will be allowed to interfere with anything else.  I about have it in my mind now how to achieve it all.  Flimsy mounting and poor protection of the scales will not be allowed.  The proof will be in the final results.  At some point I need to stop thinking, talking and listening and get to work.  Pretty soon, but not without a complete plan...


----------



## 4GSR

middle.road said:


> Well, so much for a decent delivery time... Ordered on the 7th, and they weren't able to fulfill it before the 'Spring Festival' started... *SIGH*
> I thought that a week would have been plenty of time for them to ship it out. Appears that the Holiday started on the 15th.
> Note to self: Must take into consideration Chinese New Year/Spring Festival holiday when ordering around February. . .
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Wilson Huang: Dear, Dan
> Thanks for the order.
> Now our Chinese is having China Spring Festival holiday, the shipping company, customs office and our company all stopped working.
> Sorry we have to ship after holiday, we have the product in stock, once holiday finish which will takes 10-12 days, we will send out as soon as possible.
> Thanks for the support.
> Best regards,
> Wilson


I got lucky on buying mine the other day.  They got it out the week before and took it across the boarder to Hong Kong to ship!  As far as I know, they don't celebrate Chinese Holiday in Hong Kong.


----------



## middle.road

4gsr said:


> I got lucky on buying mine the other day.  They got it out the week before and took it across the boarder to Hong Kong to ship!  As far as I know, they don't celebrate Chinese Holiday in Hong Kong.





	

		
			
		

		
	
.........................


----------



## rock_breaker

Bob



Moper361 said:


> reduces travel and has the chance of being crushed if not Carefull





Bob Korves said:


> Flimsy mounting and poor protection of the scales will not be allowed. The proof will be in the final results. At some point I need to stop thinking, talking and listening and get to work. Pretty soon, but not without a complete plan...


Protection of the front mounted scales is my concern as well especially since I have a small hoist in front of the mill. Moper361 has good idea about this and I am trying to decide on steel or aluminum angles; max length about 26.5 inches. On all but the quill the reading sensor will be on the bottom, which I think will avoid some problems. Hope the weather warms a little so I can get brave enough to go out tol the shop.
Have a good day
Ray


----------



## 4GSR

I've always mounted the scales on the back side of the mill table.  Protecting the scale, I've used 1/8" thick x 3" wide flat bar to 1-1/4" angle.  I really don't care for those flimsy guards they send with the DRO you buy today to use on the mill.  Make it beefy so it can take a blunt hit from what ever that may fall in the direction of the scale.


----------



## Bob Korves

rock_breaker said:


> Protection of the front mounted scales is my concern as well especially since I have a small hoist in front of the mill. Moper361 has good idea about this and I am trying to decide on steel or aluminum angles; max length about 26.5 inches.


Right now I am considering using 1/8" wall x 1" on three sides aluminum channel to cover the X axis scale, with caps on the ends for more rigidity.  My "slim" X scale will fit inside of it with room to spare.


----------



## middle.road

Bob Korves said:


> Right now I am considering using 1/8" wall x 1" on three sides aluminum channel to cover the X axis scale, with caps on the ends for more rigidity.  My "slim" X scale will fit inside of it with room to spare.


That's sounds like a plan. May need to hit the MetalsSupermart up in Knoxville next week.


----------



## middle.road

Oh so close. How the devil can they afford to send 'em via Air?
I figured it would be sailing over.


----------



## middle.road

DRO Delivery Day, or 3D for short.
Made good time. Shipped on 03-01 and it's going to get delivered today 03-08....
/me anxious? heck no... not at all - much.

-*EDIT*-
Arrived. Very well packaged. The boxes are double-thick corrugated, and they wrapped them entirely in tape.
No dings, dents, or damage. Everything is functioning.
Meanwhile the weather, it's 38° and has been snow flurry-ing all morning. Might be freezing my digits off if I get around to installing today.


----------



## middle.road

Installation *DELAYED*. The Bijur One-Shot Meter Valves were all clogged except for two. Did manage to get them back in service.
I noticed that the table wasn't getting any lube when I was checking it out for travel. 
Will have to make a new thread on that when time permits. Want to go put it back together and start on the DRO install.


----------



## tjb

middle.road said:


> DRO Delivery Day, or 3D for short.
> Made good time. Shipped on 03-01 and it's going to get delivered today 03-08....
> /me anxious? heck no... not at all - much.
> 
> -*EDIT*-
> Arrived. Very well packaged. The boxes are double-thick corrugated, and they wrapped them entirely in tape.
> No dings, dents, or damage. Everything is functioning.
> Meanwhile the weather, it's 38° and has been snow flurry-ing all morning. Might be freezing my digits off if I get around to installing today.
> 
> View attachment 261151
> View attachment 261154


GREAT!!  Mine is supposed to arrive Tuesday.  As of late yesterday, it was in St. Louis.

Regards,
Terry


----------



## middle.road

tjb said:


> GREAT!!  Mine is supposed to arrive Tuesday.  As of late yesterday, it was in St. Louis.
> 
> Regards,
> Terry


What the devil is it doing is St. Louis?!!!! Who is the Carrier?


----------



## tjb

Oops.  Not St. Louis.  Louisville.  No idea why it's there, either.  It's shipping UPS.

Hope mine arrives in same condition as yours.  You satisfied so far?

Regards,
Terry


----------



## SSage

I've been thinking about a 2 axis dro for my 12x36 lathe. I have PM machines, so I have been debating on an eBay special verses the PM 2 axis $399 kit. Is there an advantage to these mentioned above? I have a PM branded DRO on my mill, but I just don't have anything to compare it to. Its worked fine for me though. I guess the lathe version comes with all the mounting hardware? I wish PM had them preinstalled on the 1236's when I bought mine, I love the Mill with the 3 axis that came ready to go.


----------



## tjb

Mine should be here tomorrow.  Dan (middle-road) already received his 3-axis but has not yet installed it.  Bob Korves received his some time back.  I don't think he's installed his yet either, but he knows others who have installed already and are satisfied.

I ordered a 2-axis DRO for my 13x40 lathe - $179.84 delivered.  If it shows up tomorrow, it will be exactly three weeks from the day I ordered.  But they tell you that up front.

Follow this thread and also 'Accuremote or igaging'.  You'll get all the info you need as well as comparisons to some other options that are out there.  Bob gives all the contact information about 12 posts down on the 'Accuremote...' thread.

Regards,
Terry


----------



## middle.road

tjb said:


> Oops.  Not St. Louis.  Louisville.  No idea why it's there, either.  It's shipping UPS.
> 
> Hope mine arrives in same condition as yours.  You satisfied so far?
> 
> Regards,
> Terry


UPS has it's main air terminal in Louisville KY.

For the price - heck yeah. I have a spreadsheet going back three years and the cost has come down quite a bit.
The kit is a tad shy of mounting brackets and there wasn't one supplied for the display head but heck we've got material and time.
Looking at all the other kits out there that appears to be the norm.
At ~$100.00 / axis you can't really complain.
I would like to find more detailed information/drawings for mounting the scales. I sent Wilson a message.
So far I've only found the one drawing in the listing showing mounting dimensions. I scrounged around for more but have come up empty.
I would love to see some other's picts of their installs.

Going to try to install today. Couldn't get any traction in the shop yesterday. I had an old bracket from an Accu-Trak system for the 'Y'-Axis.
Managed to find it after it's been bouncing around the shop for years, and then promptly mis-placed it. Haven't seen it since Friday. The gremlins grabbed it and hid it real good. The leftover from the Mitutoyo is a bit 'light', but I'll probably end up reusing it.
Weather today is cruddy, rain and snowing, although the sun is attempting to punch through..


----------



## tjb

middle.road said:


> UPS has it's main air terminal in Louisville KY.
> 
> For the price - heck yeah. I have a spreadsheet going back three years and the cost has come down quite a bit.
> The kit is a tad shy of mounting brackets and there wasn't one supplied for the display head but heck we've got material and time.
> Looking at all the other kits out there that appears to be the norm.
> At ~$100.00 / axis you can't really complain.
> I would like to find more detailed information/drawings for mounting the scales. I sent Wilson a message.
> So far I've only found the one drawing in the listing showing mounting dimensions. I scrounged around for more but have come up empty.
> I would love to see some other's picts of their installs.
> 
> Going to try to install today. Couldn't get any traction in the shop yesterday. I had an old bracket from an Accu-Trak system for the 'Y'-Axis.
> Managed to find it after it's been bouncing around the shop for years, and then promptly mis-placed it. Haven't seen it since Friday. The gremlins grabbed it and hid it real good. The leftover from the Mitutoyo is a bit 'light', but I'll probably end up reusing it.
> Weather today is cruddy, rain and snowing, although the sun is attempting to punch through..


If you locate any info that might be helpful for mounting, I sure would appreciate your sharing.  I'll do the same if I come up with anything.  Anxious to hear how your installation goes.  Good luck.

P.S.:  I'm pretty sure I know where your bracket is.  Showed up over the weekend in my shop.  Had no idea what it was or where it came from.  Thanks for the heads up.

Regards


----------



## tjb

middle.road said:


> UPS has it's main air terminal in Louisville KY.
> 
> For the price - heck yeah. I have a spreadsheet going back three years and the cost has come down quite a bit.
> The kit is a tad shy of mounting brackets and there wasn't one supplied for the display head but heck we've got material and time.
> Looking at all the other kits out there that appears to be the norm.
> At ~$100.00 / axis you can't really complain.
> I would like to find more detailed information/drawings for mounting the scales. I sent Wilson a message.
> So far I've only found the one drawing in the listing showing mounting dimensions. I scrounged around for more but have come up empty.
> I would love to see some other's picts of their installs.
> 
> Going to try to install today. Couldn't get any traction in the shop yesterday. I had an old bracket from an Accu-Trak system for the 'Y'-Axis.
> Managed to find it after it's been bouncing around the shop for years, and then promptly mis-placed it. Haven't seen it since Friday. The gremlins grabbed it and hid it real good. The leftover from the Mitutoyo is a bit 'light', but I'll probably end up reusing it.
> Weather today is cruddy, rain and snowing, although the sun is attempting to punch through..



Delivery update: Left Nome at 4:20 PM.  No wait.  That was Nashville.


----------



## middle.road

Man, we lost a few posts drat-it-all.
I'll start off re-posting what I can remember. 
Here's a sketch of dimensions that are missing.
Bottom side of the read head, the (4)-threaded M4 holes, and the hole pattern for the Display Head Panel.
The Display Head mounting surface has an angle of 65° on it.

I've got my 'Y'-Axis installed, and started on the 'X' but there is a bow of over .020" on the rail when I clamped it to the table.


----------



## tjb

middle.road said:


> but there is a bow of over .020" on the rail when I clamped it to the table.


Whoa.  What are you going to do?  (Shim, maybe?)


----------



## middle.road

tjb said:


> Whoa.  What are you going to do?  (Shim, maybe?)


Not sure yet. The 'bow' is 'away' from the table. Finally heading into the shop on this beautiful day an am going to ponder it.


----------



## middle.road

Here's a pict of it. Doesn't really show up unless you squint. Not sure what to do about this...


----------



## ttabbal

Interesting. I'm going to be joining you first time DRO installers. I took advantage of the 20% eBay coupon last week and my DRO is getting here Monday. From Hong Kong. Thought for sure I'd be waiting a bit. Hopefully my scales are straight. Not sure what to do about that.


----------



## JimDawson

middle.road said:


> Not sure yet. The bow is 'bow' is 'away' from the table. Finally heading into the shop on this beautiful day an am going to ponder it.



Wow.  That is an interesting problem.  Two possibilities:  1) Flip it over and clamp it down to your table on the ends, maybe with a shim in the center, I would try without the shim first.  Then take a heat gun and warm it up, maybe this would straighten it out or bow it slightly in the other direction.  Or, 2) send it back and get another one.

The problem with #1 is that I don't know how the glass scale is held in the housing and how much heat it would take.


----------



## middle.road

Back on the 'X'-Axis this afternoon.
*NOT* happy.
Check your end cap screws gang. They were loose on one end and barely snug on the other. 'Y' & 'Z' scales are tight.
And they are cast pieces. both of mine are different. Notice the 'missed' drill points in pict.
Also had to de-burr it.
I'm attempting to square it up now. Break out the feeler gages and shim stock. Is it 5 o'clock somewhere?
Also they are NOT double wipers. I thought they were... Also mine on the 'X are short.


----------



## tjb

middle.road said:


> Back on the 'X'-Axis this afternoon.
> *NOT* happy.
> Check your end cap screws gang. They were loose on one end and barely snug on the other. 'Y' & 'Z' scales are tight.
> And they are cast pieces. both of mine are different. Notice the 'missed' drill points in pict.
> Also had to de-burr it.
> I'm attempting to square it up now. Break out the feeler gages and shim stock. Is it 5 o'clock somewhere?
> Also they are NOT double wipers. I thought they were... Also mine on the 'X are short.
> 
> View attachment 262452



Dan,

Couple of questions:
1.  a.  Will the mismatched end caps result in an operational issue?
     b.  Also, could that in any way be contributing to the bow?
2.  What do you mean by 'double wipers'?
3.  What's the consequence of them being short?

I'm still days away from beginning my installation.  Need to finish a project before I can get some stuff out of the way.  Opening the package everything looked good, but I've obviously not yet examined the material in fine detail.  I plugged both axes into the board, and everything appears to work as it should.  Hope I can say the same after further examination.

Sorry to hear you're having trouble.  Hopefully, it turns out to be nothing more than a temporary nuisance.

Regards,
Terry


----------



## Bob Korves

middle.road said:


> Man, we lost a few posts drat-it-all.
> I'll start off re-posting what I can remember.
> Here's a sketch of dimensions that are missing.
> Bottom side of the read head, the (4)-threaded M4 holes, and the hole pattern for the Display Head Panel.
> The Display Head mounting surface has an angle of 65° on it.
> 
> I've got my 'Y'-Axis installed, and started on the 'X' but there is a bow of over .020" on the rail when I clamped it to the table.
> 
> View attachment 262280


Dan, I went to a buddy's house today that has one of these DROs on his mill.  The "missing bracket" is actually 2 right angle half brackets with 3 holes each, painted black.  They are in one of the plastic bags with a bunch of other hardware


----------



## middle.road

Bob Korves said:


> Dan, I went to a buddy's house today that has one of these DROs on his mill.  The "missing bracket" is actually 2 right angle half brackets with 3 holes each, painted black.  They are in one of the plastic bags with a bunch of other hardware


Been a hectic couple of days. I've been snatching shop time where I can and haven't had time to post. 
Yep-yep. Wilson sent a photo finally Friday night / Saturday morning. Shows an Easson, but the mount is the same.
And here's a pict of the two halves in my kit. I can't quite figure out how it's going to work with the one bracket having an ear that is 'angled'.
I've also attached a copy of the pict sent from Wilson.


----------



## middle.road

tjb said:


> Dan,
> 
> Couple of questions:
> 1.  a.  Will the mismatched end caps result in an operational issue?
> b.  Also, could that in any way be contributing to the bow?
> 2.  What do you mean by 'double wipers'?
> 3.  What's the consequence of them being short?
> 
> I'm still days away from beginning my installation.  Need to finish a project before I can get some stuff out of the way.  Opening the package everything looked good, but I've obviously not yet examined the material in fine detail.  I plugged both axes into the board, and everything appears to work as it should.  Hope I can say the same after further examination.
> 
> Sorry to hear you're having trouble.  Hopefully, it turns out to be nothing more than a temporary nuisance.
> 
> Regards,
> Terry


I reworked both of the end caps. De-burred them and on the one I had to redrill the holes. I used a #36 drill. Crappy quality.
Then I grabbed feeler gages and some blocks and trued it up on the top of the table, using .030" as my offset to the rail on the mounting surface side.
And the 'Bow' is gone. Thank goodness.
Double wipers. There's slots for two sets of wipers, this set only has one and on mine they were cut and assembled too short, by about .30".
That could allow chips and swarf to get into the rail. That'll mess up your day for sure.
I searched for awhile but couldn't find any pictures of the double wiper arrangement. 
I'll be contacting Wilson to get at least one pair of replacements and to also find out if I can purchase additional wiper material to add a second wiper set. 

I managed to get the 'X' mount machined last night. Going to try to find some shop time this afternoon and begin drilling and tapping holes to mount it. Then on the to 'Z'.


----------



## Bob Korves

middle.road said:


> I can't quite figure out how it's going to work with the one bracket having an ear that is 'angled'.


The angled bracket is not correct.  Contact quality assurance...


----------



## middle.road

Bob Korves said:


> The angled bracket is not correct.  Contact quality assurance...


I called, the number has been disconnected... 
Wish I had the 3D Printer running, I could do up a neat mount. Meanwhile I'll be fabbing one from whatever is on hand.
'X' and 'Y' are mounted and functioning. Was able to use the existing holes from the Mitutoyo scales, except for two #10-32's on the table.
I need to go back and retake 'Dimensioning 101'. When I figured out the length for the 'X' I wanted to make doubly sure that I didn't get it too short like the Mitutoyo was and end up messing up the scale. I calc'd for 1.5" extra.
Well the ends of the scale came out right on the drain holes. Don't it figure?
Going to route the cables and mount the head - hopefully today. And retake some picts of the install thus far.
Went through my picts this morning that I took last night and they suck.


----------



## Bob Korves

middle.road said:


> I called, the number has been disconnected...
> Wish I had the 3D Printer running, I could do up a neat mount. Meanwhile I'll be fabbing one from whatever is on hand.
> 'X' and 'Y' are mounted and functioning. Was able to use the existing holes from the Mitutoyo scales, except for two #10-32's on the table.
> I need to go back and retake 'Dimensioning 101'. When I figured out the length for the 'X' I wanted to make doubly sure that I didn't get it too short like the Mitutoyo was and end up messing up the scale. I calc'd for 1.5" extra.
> Well the ends of the scale came out right on the drain holes. Don't it figure?
> Going to route the cables and mount the head - hopefully today. And retake some picts of the install thus far.
> Went through my picts this morning that I took last night and they suck.


Something seems strange, Dan.  I don't remember what mill you have.  On my Millrite, the table is 32" and the travel is 21.5".  The table ends almost reach the saddle at maximum travel.  Still, the X scale will not come close to reaching the end caps, by several inches.  I ordered the X scale 1"+ longer than the travel.  When I saw your mounting it scared me, so I just went out and checked the scale travel I got and double checked the table travel.  It is correct.  Did you measure the travel correctly?  Did Wilson actually send you the scale you ordered?  Whatever, it looks like it is going to work for you, and what I am seeing may just be the differences between our mills.  And what is the reason for the drains at the front of the table?  Seems like they would constantly be in the way if using them to drain to a coolant sump.  All the ones I have seen are on the back of the table.  I wonder if someone has switched the end caps at some point in the mill's life?
Edit:  Oops, your mill does not have end caps, that explains it.  Still, why in front?


----------



## middle.road

It's a 9x48 Bridgeport with 36" Travel. I did mount it on the backside.
The Mitutoyo setup had an 'X' scale for a 32" travel machine. See my old post *here* for background.
The Tapped hole to the left under the pink towel is for the previous Mitu.

Question: can you  post a picture of your display head mounting brackets? I'd like to include it in my message to Wilson. Thanks.


----------



## Bob Korves

Here ya' go!


----------



## middle.road

Bob Korves said:


> Here ya' go!


Thank you. Boy, those don't look like mine do they?


----------



## Bob Korves

middle.road said:


> Thank you. Boy, those don't look like mine do they?


Mine "look" like they might actually fit...


----------



## middle.road

Finally installed. Well, two-thirds installed. 'X', 'Y', & the Display. The 'Z' is going to take a bit of thought and planning.
Fab'd a mount for the Display. Need to go back today and install the chip guard that I forgot to install on the 'X' scale.
I think the aluminum angle on the 'Y' mount works well as a chip guard, per BobK's idea in another thread.
Looks like I also need to go back and adjust the read head on the 'Y'. Also need to add a 6" arm extension to the Display arm.


----------



## mksj

It may be easier to fabricate some new brackets out of aluminum or angle metal. Most of the DRO/scale installs I have done, I have machined new brackets and hardware. The lack of double seals on the scales and an open section is a bit concerning over the long hall, but with a good scale cover it should be ok unless you are in a dusty environment or run coolant. I do recall a few postings that the more inexpensive glass scales had a single seal and they did not seal very well, this eventually did lead to contamination issue. Interesting that the DROPros show the contamination with the single seal version vs. the double.
http://www.dropros.com/DRO_PROS_Milling_Machine_Digital_Readout.htm

The problem will most likely be getting the seals that fit the particular scale, from my read of the seals is they are manufacturer specific size wise. Hopefully the seller can get you some new ones,  otherwise the three vendors below might be worth a try, they service some of the more common name brand DRO manufacturers products.
http://www.auto-met.com/Default.htm
http://www.atechauthority.com/
http://www.dropros.com

I have had and installed some of the Easson products as well as a few other DRO manufactures, and never had an issue with the Easson glass scales which are doubled lipped. It is hard to beat the lower priced DRO's but Easson sells a 3 axis ES-8A for $435 and the ES-12B for $470 via Aliexpress and they are very good midpriced DROs if one has a bit more change. I have the older ES-12 on my lathe, has worked great for many years.


----------



## middle.road

Looking through and viewing a plethora of images and drawings for dimensions, it looks like to me that most of the 'budget' scales are built on the the same extrusion design. There are slots in the one I purchased for another set of wipers. Now to find a cheap source.
The wipers look good on the 'Y' & the 'Z'. The 'X' perhaps was assembled at 'end of shift'?
The Easson 12, and 12C LCD displays looks nice.
The Easson's scales and their dimensions are identical to the ones I've got. Accessory kits look the same also on some offerings.

You have to wonder if they get assembled on a different line or at a different facility. The mounting accessories look to be identical also.
The 'Sino' brand appears to have a heftier read head design.


----------



## Bob Korves

middle.road said:


> I think the aluminum angle on the 'Y' mount works well as a chip guard, per BobK's idea in another thread.


My idea is to use 1 x 1 x 1/8" aluminum channel.


----------



## middle.road

Bob Korves said:


> My idea is to use 1 x 1 x 1/8" 1.25" x 1.25" x 1/8" aluminum channel.


Design Review Meeting, 3:10pm EDT
Didn't you get the same scales as I have? I don't think 1x1 will work. or I'm missing the obvious.
Quick layout sketch. Which technically do not believe their 21.5mm dimension. My end caps measured .866"/22mm.

_edited_: revised said channel dimensions per post #59


----------



## Bob Korves

middle.road said:


> Design Review Meeting, 3:10pm EDT
> Didn't you get the same scales as I have? I don't think 1x1 will work. or I'm missing the obvious.
> Quick layout sketch. Which technically do not believe their 21.5mm dimension. My end caps measured .866"/22mm.
> 
> View attachment 262900


I am sorry, Dan.  It was 1 1/4" that I was hoping to use.   1" inside dimensions.  I did get the "slim" scale for the X axis, it is a little less tall, but the same width as the standard scales (no extra cost).  The end caps of the slim scales are about 21 x 29 mm.  Also considering attaching the scale to the outer flange of the channel, and the channel separately to the table.  Open side of the channel facing down.  It will probably require some rubber or other flexible material added to the outside leg of the channel to adequately keep the chips and oil out of the scale.  I do think it would give the scale a lot more protection.  I am putting the X scale at the front of the table, not the rear.

Edit:  The factory scale guards are pretty flimsy.


----------



## middle.road

1-1/4" make sense. 
Those are scale guards? 
I thought they were (3) pcs of sheet metal to add to the stock bin.
Although I may end up using one for the 'Z'.


----------



## Bob Korves

middle.road said:


> I thought they were (3) pcs of sheet metal to add to the stock bin.


For sure!


----------



## tjb

Okay, here's a head scratcher (for me, at least).

I've started the installation on the DRO for my lathe.  As you know -at least Dan and Bob - mine came from our good friend, Mr. Wilson, across the left pond, and so far, it's been challenging, but fairly uneventful.  The biggest problem I've had so far is it appears that the hardware that came with it is generally wrong.  It came in two packs, which were different, and neither of which seems to have a preponderance of what is needed.  No biggie, I either had most of what I needed or got it easily enough in town.

Here's the big challenge:
On both scales, there is a red plastic sleeve between the reader and the scale.  It slides very nicely with the reader in one direction but, because it's not actually connected to it, it slides off in the other (see the following photos).







You can't tell from the photos, but there are tiny little holes in the plastic tab that match up to threaded holes in the reader - VERY small.  I got absolutely no instructions on mounting or insulation, so I'm not sure if this tab is there for safety while shipping or if it's supposed to stay in there permanently.  Since I got two mismatched hardware packages - neither of which appears to be correct for my purchase - I have no idea whether to try to mount the tab or just take it out.

Did either of you get mounting instructions?  Any idea what to do with this tab?  (Bob, your friends who have already installed theirs, what did they do?)

Regards,
Terry


----------



## tjb

tjb said:


> I got absolutely no instructions on mounting or insulation


CORRECTION:


----------



## tjb

tjb said:


> I got absolutely no instructions on mounting or insulation


CORRECTION:  "I got absolutely no instructions on mounting or INSTALLATION..."


----------



## mksj

The red tabs or keepers are used for shipping only and to setup/keep the alignment (space) of the reader to the scale during installation. They are removed when installation is complete. Some manuals specify the distances of the reader to the scale and tolerances. See instructions below, the Sino scale install manual is pretty bad.


----------



## middle.road

That, MKSJ is exactly what I needed a week ago. Where did you find them?
The Easson is right on the mark IMO.

Yeah, someone besides Wilson is answering my messages. I asked for installation instructions plus info on the display mount and all I received is that picture of an Easson Display on an arm.
The response to my latest message in regard to my wiper problem was very poor.


----------



## tjb

mksj said:


> The red tabs or keepers are used for shipping only and to setup/keep the alignment (space) of the reader to the scale during installation. They are removed when installation is complete. Some manuals specify the distances of the reader to the scale and tolerances. See instructions below, the Sino scale install manual is pretty bad.


Thanks for the information.

I agree with Dan:  The illustrations in the Easson Installation Instructions look virtually identical to my unit.

As usual, your advice is invaluable.

Regards,
Terry


----------



## tjb

middle.road said:


> That, MKSJ is exactly what I needed a week ago. Where did you find them?
> The Easson is right on the mark IMO.
> 
> Yeah, someone besides Wilson is answering my messages. I asked for installation instructions plus info on the display mount and all I received is that picture of an Easson Display on an arm.
> The response to my latest message in regard to my wiper problem was very poor.



I find myself wondering if there really is a "Mr. Wilson" or if that is simply a generic name used to funnel questions.

So far, I'm not dissatisfied with my unit.  Because of the configuration of my lathe, I've had to fabricate some blocks to hold the stock brackets, but that wasn't terribly difficult.  Not completely finished, but I think the most challenging part is behind me.  That's the x-axis.  I have a feeling, however, that the z-axis is going to be a bit more challenging because of space constraints.  We'll see.  Would love to hear some opinions on mounting it on the front of the cross slide instead of the back.

Regards,
Terry


----------



## Bob Korves

The relative lack of mounting hardware does not faze me in the least.  First, most of the stuff that comes with these things are not only cheap, but also generic for a mounting design just about guaranteed to be different than mine.  Also, every piece we do not use is wasted money.  I am happy coming up with my own solutions to mounting the hardware.


----------



## mksj

tjb said:


> That's the x-axis. I have a feeling, however, that the z-axis is going to be a bit more challenging because of space constraints.



Was a little confused because there are two separate installs going on in this post which one would differ somewhat on the recommendations, one for the mill and one for the lathe. On a lathe typically one would use a slimLine (GS31) 1 micron glass scale on the cross slide, the standard scale (GS10) is too large to fit on smaller lathes. A slimLine is significantly smaller, under 1" wide with the cover. The dimensions are available here: http://www.dropros.com/DRO_PROS_Digital_Readout_Scale.htm

Unless your cross slide gibs are on the tailstock side, I would not mount the scale on the headstock side, the risk of running it into the chuck and contamination is much greater.  You can also get ribbons of swarf that love to catch anything and make a mess. The Z axis or long axis is usually fairly straight forward, not sure on what the space constraints would be, the scale is mounted on the back of the lathe (lots of postings on these installs). Having installed a few DROs, the brackets rarely "fit" as there are too many variables from machine to machine, in some cases a bracket might be re-purposed or modified to fit or attach to a custom bracket. First timers (including myself) try to use the provided brackets, but after a few times one realizes that one can fabricate specific brackets and get a cleaner finished install.  Some of the higher end kits will provide a mounting surface for the scales with small jack screws in the corners for aligning the scale, a lot is just figuring out where to mount the scales/reader. The DRO Pros installation page is also helpful for different ideas. http://www.dropros.com/Digital_Readout_DRO_Installation.htm


----------



## tjb

Happy to report:  Success on the installation!

Given this was my first attempt at installing a DRO, I'm sure I wasted a lot of time designing, measuring, fabricating, re-measuring, re-designing, etc.  Probably a little overkill on the adage, 'measure twice, cut once', but in the grand scheme of things, I'm glad I did.  I made a couple of design changes in the process that are vast improvements over my initial ideas.  Finished wiring the unit into the lathe about an hour ago, and just thrilled that everything works as it should.

One mishap: While troubleshooting the wiring, I managed to knock the monitor off the lathe and onto the concrete floor.  I'm now the proud owner of a one-of-a-kind monitor with a slight, unobtrusive chip on the plastic casing in the upper right corner.  (Eat your hearts out.)  But look at the bright side.  I can attest to the tolerance level on a crash test.  And I am emancipated from the bondage of worrying about that first scratch or ding.  Life is good.

No pictures yet.  Need to clean my shop first.

And a special thanks to all those who loaded this thread with wise counsel, sage advice, and helpful opinions:
   Dan, thanks for guidance in ordering.  Hadn't heard from you in awhile.  Hope your installation is going smoothly.
   Bob, thanks for the recommendation.  It's a good choice, and I'd buy it again in a heartbeat.
   mksj, as always, your observations and technical recommendations are invaluable.

Only thing left is to butcher a little metal.

Regards to all,
Terry


----------



## middle.road

*GADS*, it's been a week already? Working well - used it extensively over the weekend to get out a side job. Makes it so much easier.
Still haven't got around to the 'Z' installation - yet.
Did add an 8" extension to my Jota arm arranangement. Discovered that the cables could stand to be about 12" longer.
Need to change that around a bit. I managed to clean up all the cables and runs. I've got them semi tied down until I'm sure.
Took a piece of 1/8"x1w aluminum and using some 3M double-sided tape stuck it to the top of the 'X' scale as a temporary guard/shield until I come up with something better and can make a run to metals supermarket.
One issue that arose is that the florescent 4'er that I have above the mill 'drowns' out the display. Had to temporarily put a piece of cardboard for a shade on top of the display.
Need to double-check my 'Y' mounting. And get replacement wipers from Wilson...


----------



## tjb

I did the same thing with double-sided tape on my lathe's x-axis.  Because of the configuration, mounting the guard in the normal fashion just wasn't going to work.  I used the same guard provided, but just stuck it to the top of the scale with the tape.  I think I'm going to leave it that way.  It works.

Been working on cleaning, cleaning, cleaning; moving the lathe (long story, don't ask); and mounting the monitor today.  Almost done with fabricating a mount.  Mine didn't come with a mount, so I'm starting from scratch.  Should finish tomorrow.

I think I'm gonna like it.

Regards,
Terry


----------



## middle.road

Replacement wipers arrived yesterday, along with two end caps. Packages extremely well.
These end caps looks much better than the ones that came on the scale.
They never did answer my question as to where I could purchase additional wipers for the 2nd set of grooves...

Really enjoying having a fully functioning DRO. Still haven't got the 'Z' mounted though. -hehe


----------



## tjb

middle.road said:


> Replacement wipers arrived yesterday, along with two end caps. Packages extremely well.
> These end caps looks much better than the ones that came on the scale.
> They never did answer my question as to where I could purchase additional wipers for the 2nd set of grooves...
> 
> Really enjoying having a fully functioning DRO. Still haven't got the 'Z' mounted though. -hehe


That's good news, Dan.

Anxious to hear how the mounting goes on the z-axis.  I'm VERY pleased with the 2-axis setup on my lathe.  It's kinda like a microwave.  (For you younger hobbyists, that means: "Once you've used it, you wonder how you ever lived without it.")

Hope I'm wrong, but I think there's a possibility I may be nearing the market for a 3-axis on my mill.  Lately, the x-axis has been acting up.  Occasionally, it will show a reading that is way off from what I know it to be.  It never happens (so far) when I'm actually moving the table on that axis; only when it's on but standing still.  And it's always off by exactly 0.395".  In addition, two or three times, the readout has shown 'Error' on the x-scale.  If I turn off the DRO, hold my mouth right, stand on one foot, and turn it back on, I'll get a 'zero' reading and all is well.  Hopefully, it's trash/coolant accumulated on the scale.  If not, I might as well get a 3-axis.  If that happens, I may be picking your brain on the z-axis mount.

Regards,
Terry


----------



## middle.road

(breaking out the feather duster here...)
(18) months later...
Where were we? I still don't have my 'Z' installed. 
Did you get one for your mill and I've missed a thread?
How's the lathe DRO working?
Seeing the new LCD panels and I want one.   



tjb said:


> That's good news, Dan.
> 
> Anxious to hear how the mounting goes on the z-axis.  I'm VERY pleased with the 2-axis setup on my lathe.  It's kinda like a microwave.  (For you younger hobbyists, that means: "Once you've used it, you wonder how you ever lived without it.")
> 
> Hope I'm wrong, but I think there's a possibility I may be nearing the market for a 3-axis on my mill.  Lately, the x-axis has been acting up.  Occasionally, it will show a reading that is way off from what I know it to be.  It never happens (so far) when I'm actually moving the table on that axis; only when it's on but standing still.  And it's always off by exactly 0.395".  In addition, two or three times, the readout has shown 'Error' on the x-scale.  If I turn off the DRO, hold my mouth right, stand on one foot, and turn it back on, I'll get a 'zero' reading and all is well.  Hopefully, it's trash/coolant accumulated on the scale.  If not, I might as well get a 3-axis.  If that happens, I may be picking your brain on the z-axis mount.
> 
> Regards,
> Terry


----------



## Winegrower

Possibly this is making a point about the Z axis on a mill.   X and Y are indispensable but for me, I would probably never get around to installing a Z either.   In fact, I put on a quill DRO ( fancy digital caliper type) awhile ago.   The battery has been dead for 6 months, haven’t missed it.


----------



## tjb

middle.road said:


> (breaking out the feather duster here...)
> (18) months later...
> Where were we? I still don't have my 'Z' installed.
> Did you get one for your mill and I've missed a thread?
> How's the lathe DRO working?
> Seeing the new LCD panels and I want one.


Man, that's ancient history!  Yes, I did get the DRO for my lathe, and it's been great.  I am waiting on shipment of another lathe which will already have DRO installed.  I have X and Y DRO on my mill, but like our friend, Winegrower, I have a digital quill reader (Mitutoyo) instead of Z DRO.  Works fine, so I've never even considered the Z scale.

Regards,
Terry


----------

