# What Does Made In U S A Mean?



## Charles Spencer (Oct 29, 2015)

I was searching on ebay for some South Bend parts when I saw ads on the bottom of the page.  One was for a dead center from Walmart.  The idea of Walmart carrying lathe accessories intrigued me so I clicked on it.  

Apparently they have a "marketplace", like Sears.  I clicked on a tap and die set from Hanson:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Hanson-1813817-116-Piece-Tap-Die-Drill-Deluxe-Set-with-PTS-Handle/29699815

When I read the description I found this:

"*Important Made in USA Origin Disclaimer:* For certain items sold by Walmart on Walmart.com, the displayed country of origin information may not be accurate or consistent with manufacturer information. For updated, accurate country of origin data, it is recommended that you rely on product packaging or manufacturer information."

So apparently "Made in USA" doesn't have too much to do with the country of origin at Walmart.


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## Charles Spencer (Oct 29, 2015)

The software seems to keep correcting "Made in USA" to "made in Usa" in the title.

Edit:  Removing the quotes and spacing the USA seemed to fix that.


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## Bob Korves (Oct 29, 2015)

Sears, Walmart, and others are working hard at having search engines always showing them selling what you are looking for and it always being near the top of the first search page.  The prices are usually too high and availability is usually lacking.  They are apparently trying to exploit a fairly easy way of making it look like they sell everything.  Some of the Chinese ads do about the same.  I consider it all useless noise at best, contact and financial information grabbing spammers at worst.  Annoying to scroll through while trying to find a real company that stocks real products with posted pricing and stocking status up front, ready for immediate shipment.  Unfortunately, ignoring their games does not make them go away.


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## RJSakowski (Oct 29, 2015)

Now that's an interesting twist.  Undoubtedly, something their legal department came up with.  The FTC regulations regarding the "Made in USA" label also apply to advertising.  Given that they are remarketing products from other sellers and most likely the personnel at Walmart don't know a tap and die set from a pair of tap shoes, I can see why they would want to include a disclaimer. It is apparently boilerplate on all of their products. 

Bob


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## joshua43214 (Oct 29, 2015)

"Made in USA" means that all or virtually all of the product is made in America
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard

Walmart knows that many people will not read the disclaimer, or will convince themselves that the disclaimer is just CYA boilerplate. Walmart also does not care if you are happy with your purchase, there are plenty more shoppers out there to replace you.

I find I live just fine with never buying from Walmart or Sears. I find both companies to be a haven for bottom feeding scumbag marketers. The last time I purchased a Craftsman power tool, it was a total PoS. Returning it was so unpleasant that I just never went back. That was probably 15 years ago. I hate every Craftsman tool I own, I expect I will go to my grave and never buy from them again.


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## Bill C. (Oct 29, 2015)

joshua43214 said:


> "Made in USA" means that all or virtually all of the product is made in America
> https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard
> 
> Walmart knows that many people will not read the disclaimer, or will convince themselves that the disclaimer is just CYA boilerplate. Walmart also does not care if you are happy with your purchase, there are plenty more shoppers out there to replace you.
> ...



    Back in the day they were top of the line. They used to be no question asked tool replacement. They used to be Made in America tool company.  I haven't been in a Sears in years. Harbor Freight is like the old Sears when it comes to tool exchanges.


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## kvt (Oct 29, 2015)

For some reason I though I heard something about them having to put things in as they got hit by the FTC or something  
http://www.homeworldbusiness.com/Kitchenware/FTC-Drops-Walmart-Made-In-USA-Investigation/28861
and
http://theprincipalregister.com/2015/10/24/walmart-avoids-federal-action/
about their Made in the USA labeling.


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## Eddyde (Oct 29, 2015)

There is a city in Japan "Usa" that was founded in the 1960's. The rumor is the they did it so goods shipped from there could be marked "Made in USA".


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## george wilson (Oct 30, 2015)

We had a VERY CRUDE pair of scissors marked made in USA back in the 60's. It must have come from that Japanese city. The key was,there was no period after U.S.A..


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## Dan_S (Oct 30, 2015)

I've never really cared where something was made, to me the price to quality ratio was always much more important.


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## RJSakowski (Oct 30, 2015)

Bill C. said:


> Back in the day they were top of the line. They used to be no question asked tool replacement. They used to be Made in America tool company.  I haven't been in a Sears in years. Harbor Freight is like the old Sears when it comes to tool exchanges.


I used to shop for all my tools at Sears back in the '60s & 70s.  All the Craftsman hand tools had an unlimited lifetime warranty back then.  I stopped shopping there where they started to make the departments all cutesie.   Clerks working in the tools and hardware department seem to come from the lingerie department and had no idea of what they were selling.  I remember asking why they didn't stock lathe bits in their catalog when they were a still selling the lathes.  As their selection grew smaller and smaller, their choice as a vendor grew less and less until I finally stopped going in the store altogether. 

Bob


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## T Bredehoft (Oct 30, 2015)

I heard  recently on TV (you know what that's worth) that ads,  (specifically political ads) were not required to be truthful.  *I find this most disturbing*. If it's true, veracity is down the ...whatever.  It it extends to any ad, we're really in trouble.


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## Highsider (Nov 1, 2015)

Charles Spencer said:


> The software seems to keep correcting "Made in USA" to "made in Usa" in the title.
> 
> Edit:  Removing the quotes and spacing the USA seemed to fix that.


There is a city  of Usa in Japan that was marking their products as "MADE IN USA" back in the '50s & "60s.  This was back when Japanese quality was as low, generally, as China's is now.


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## Holescreek (Nov 1, 2015)

It's not just the walmarts of the world doing that. I work for a major OEM automotive supplier and we have an aftermarket division that receives automotive parts from Japan and repackages them for distribution in the US.  Once we touch them they're considered US parts.  It works the other way too, we manufacture parts that get shipped to Japan that (I assume) get similar handling. I don't know if it's done for tax or import or other purpose but it's done by all OEMs.


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## dlane (Nov 3, 2015)

Made in America dosn't mean squat any more for the last ten years , once a company that made decent products goes public " say wall street " there quality goes down and the price goes up and manufacturing is sent overseas , so an investor can make a buck.
They engineer failure into just about everything , that's why landfills are full of crap.
Just my observation of the way things work in this country, I feel sorry for the kids being born in today's world


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## Wheresmywrench? (Nov 3, 2015)

What does made in the USA mean? It means it was made in two or more parts in a third world factory and a guy in the US put the parts together and shipped it as a single piece.


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## markba633csi (Nov 12, 2015)

joshua43214 said:


> "Made in USA" means that all or virtually all of the product is made in America
> https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard
> 
> Walmart knows that many people will not read the disclaimer, or will convince themselves that the disclaimer is just CYA boilerplate. Walmart also does not care if you are happy with your purchase, there are plenty more shoppers out there to replace you.
> ...


On that cheerful note.... LOL
Mark S.


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## tomh (Nov 12, 2015)

*What Does Made In U S A Mean?*
Sadly  not much anymore   But *hopefully  *it will again


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## jpfabricator (Nov 13, 2015)

United States of Amnesty .
If you hunt or fish without a permit or license  you go to jail. If you enter our borders illegally, thats ok.!??!!?
How is that senseable?

Sent from somewhere in East Texas Jake Parker


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## FOMOGO (Nov 13, 2015)

Well, I too morn the overall loss of made in U.S.A. parts. But that being said, change is the only constant, and the planet keeps turning. Everyone take a deep breath, look at the beautiful world around you, and keep on trucking, or making chips, as the case may be. Cheers, Mike


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## dlane (Nov 13, 2015)

If I recall correctly around 1990 a Taiwan or Japanese refrigerator company manufactured a few faulty refrigerators," people lost there food " , the CEO competed suisaide and three workers went to jail . That was when customer satisfaction / Quality mattered where I worked
We went to the Moon when I was in school, I'll bet you nothing in that ship said made in China on it.
We got sold out to the communist .


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## Dan_S (Nov 13, 2015)

Are we really going to do the how great America was and how much is sucks not thing?


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## John Hasler (Nov 13, 2015)

Dan_S said:


> Are we really going to do the how great America was and how much is sucks not thing?


Things aren't like they were in the good old days.  And never were.


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## hermetic (Nov 13, 2015)

The truth is both Chinese and Indian manufacturers do not recognize copyright or patents, and will copy anything right down to the last detail including the wording. I have seen and handled two Shure SM58 microphones, both marked "Made in USA" one genuine and one counterfeit Chinese. The difference in sound quality was huge, but physically they were virtually impossible to tell apart.  In the UK we have a well known manufacturer of top quality electrical fittings called MK.  Their 13Amp twin switch socket was copied so well that the only thing that identified them as forgeries was some of the printing on the packaging, and the fact that they didn't last more than a couple of months! These were not sold through big box or DIY outlets, they had been distributed through the trade suppliers and were traced back to Dubai Where they were offered as surplus stocks of the genuine item. Anything imported into the EEC area must carry a CE stamp to certify that it passes European safety standards. It was found that a lot of small domestic appliances were failing and causing fire hazards. When checking the CE mark it was noticed that it was slightly different to the standard CE mark used in Europe, and when the importers were questioned, they said "No, this is not a Certificate European mark, this stands for "China Export". This has now virtually made CE marking worthless, and the UK is swamped with consumer goods of dubious quality and safety, which carry a bogus CE mark and are often dangerous. Recently we have had posts on Engineering forums about fake Mitotoyu metrology equipment. This has a long history, in the 19th and early 20th century goods were on sale marked "Empire Made" They were actually made by the Empire manufacturing Company in Hong Kong. Caveat Emptor!

Phil


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## RJSakowski (Nov 17, 2015)

A few days ago, our bathroom ceiling heater/exhaust/light went south.  The heater fan motor seized up and the the plastic grille melted before the the thermal cutoff opened.  The unit was 21 years old so no complaint there.  The unit was made by Broan and , on looking at their website, a complete set of replacement parts was available. However, the cost of a replacement grille and lens and a new thermal cutoff was almost 70% of the cost of a new unit.

When I installed the unit originally, I had done a thorough job of it and a fair amount of work would be required to fit a new unit.  The same model number is still available so I called Broan technical support see if it were possible to use the old housing and just replace the internals.  Don, the rep I talked to said "Yes, you can do a complete organ transplant on the unit.  Nothing has physically changed in the fifty years that model has been sold."  The wife picked up a new unit from the local DIY this evening and with five minutes work, the transplant was complete.

It is a refreshing change to see this kind of consistency in a product.  And yes, it is made in U.S.A., in fact made right here in Wisconsin.  

There is some hope yet!

Bob


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## TOOLMASTER (Nov 17, 2015)

everything i make is made in USA. ;-)


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## TOOLMASTER (Nov 17, 2015)

when dewalt tools first started up they where claiming .."made in america"....all great till you pulled one apart and made in china ect was everywhere inside...i called them on it..along with the bbb.


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## Pandersonjr (Nov 27, 2015)

I find it funny how several products manufactured in the early 1900s are still running today but yet now trying to get something to last 5 or 10 years is nearly impossible! Its not because we suddenly forgot how to build quality products...take your iphone for example- we could make the screens not break on it but then youd never have a reason to go out and buy the latest model. This is what they want. The sooner everyone realizes this the sooner we can start getting back to building quality products that our children and their children can enjoy!


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## TommyD (Nov 27, 2015)

Stuff now, especially from china, is designed with planned obsolescence in mind so the product will continued to be purchased. Old USA stuff was built to be QUALITY, which is why it still works today. As an engineer I had 2 jobs where I had to get documentation together so the products could be made in china or mexico. I could never figger out how we could have something made WRONG overseas, shipped stateside, reworked and put to market and make a profit.

I have been reading that companies are moving mfg back to the States, china is starting to become as expensive to make product as it is in the USA. In my current job I am teaching basic fundamentals of machining to future Engineers, I believe a fundamental knowledge off machining is essential to understand metal removal and shaping. I have worked with Engineers and designers that were book learned but had no practical, hands on knowledge of how metal is shaped.


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## dlane (Nov 27, 2015)

Unfortunately the U.S. Engineering collages are teaching students to design things this way nowadays
Products are designed here and China manufacturers them with inferior materials. Bad X 2
Quote:
( Stuff now, especially from china, is designed with planned obsolescence in mind so the product will continued to be purchased. )
This Planned obsolescence also adds to the cost of the item , and the consumer also has to pay to throw this U.S. Designed Chinese crap away , and the landfills are getting full of U.S. Designed Chinese carp.
It's to late for me , but I feel sorry for the next generations 
Ok I'll shut up now,


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## Dan_S (Nov 27, 2015)

Well, if your a baby boomer it's your generations fault. There are more of you than every other generation. And  they started the whole, through it out and just buy new, because they are by far the richest generation!


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## joshua43214 (Nov 27, 2015)

Dan_S said:


> Well, if your a baby boomer it's your generations fault. There are more of you than every other generation. And  they started the whole, through it out and just buy new, because they are by far the richest generation!


^^ This


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## TommyD (Nov 27, 2015)

I can't argue. 

I'm towards the tail end of the Boom myself but this what I saw. Television reached out to those of us working in a booming economy, we had lots of money in our pockets and slick advertising was invented to seperate us from our money, the latest and greatest, new and improved, new styling, all telling us that what we had was insufficient, we needed to upgrade.  Had to keep up with the Jones'. Trouble was that corporate greed got involved and latest and greatest wasn't necessarily the best and they saw a way to maximize profits by cutting corners. My dad worked in factories, he had quality tools, Dunlop, Craftsman, Delta, stuff you still see around. I saw the Japanese junk hitting our shores, we used to say, as kids when something broke, cheap junk, made in Japan. Those days Japanese goods were like the current Chinese goods. There are still decent tools being made here, trouble is that they are more expensive than off shore manufacturers marked as Assembled in USA from foreign sourced parts or Made in China. I look at labels to see where the thing I'm looking at is made, I was involved in manufacturing my whole life, road a  lot of highs and lows. Had to reduce cost of manufacture to keep corporate happy in my engineering jobs.


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## savarin (Nov 27, 2015)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
Hmm, looks like it was an American idea that eventually most manufacturers took on board.


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## Dan_S (Nov 27, 2015)

The wiki page is not correct as far as I'm concerned it looks more like it was written by a grumpy Mr Wilson type.

 Imo planned obsolescence is more to do with the fact that the consumer wants to replace the product. Take cell phones for example they don't last much more than 2 years now because your average consumer doesn't keep one that long.  I know lots of people who get a new cell phone every year to 18 months. They pay heavy penalties for breaking the contract early just so they can get a newer model even though they only use a fraction of their current phone's capabilities.   

The manufacturer has no reason to make something that lasts a decade if the consumer throws it out after 2 years.


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## savarin (Nov 27, 2015)

Yep! the creed of greed.
All modern business is predicated upon this model irrespective of what country.
But I'm sorry to say it was invented in the good ole US of A.
Funnily enough Henry Ford was against the idea but GM took it fully on board.
The idea of consumerism was put forward and pushed by the American government to help the economy and reduce the stockpiles of goods caused by the thrift policies that were enforced during the first world war.
It worked and soon everyone was on the bandwagon.
Its very interesting to research where and how it started and the fine line that modern economics treads with making a product that will last just long enough so they can keep selling and one that lasts too long, doesnt need replacing so they go out of business.
Of course this is now reinforced with massive marketing hype and strengthened with huge doses of psychology and crass TV shows that turns a modern consumer into a quivering wreck if they cannot get the absolute latest to the second gizmo and brag about it.
The Chinese manufacturers whilst ignoring patents and copyrights produce the goods to the price the importers desire. These same companies do produce superb products on a par with anything else out there but we dont want to pay for them.


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## John Hasler (Nov 27, 2015)

Dan_S said:


> The wiki page is not correct as far as I'm concerned it looks more like it was written by a grumpy Mr Wilson type.
> 
> Imo planned obsolescence is more to do with the fact that the consumer wants to replace the product. Take cell phones for example they don't last much more than 2 years now because your average consumer doesn't keep one that long.  I know lots of people who get a new cell phone every year to 18 months. They pay heavy penalties for breaking the contract early just so they can get a newer model even though they only use a fraction of their current phone's capabilities.
> 
> The manufacturer has no reason to make something that lasts a decade if the consumer throws it out after 2 years.


Yes.  The general idea is to try to estimate the intended service life and then try to design a product that will function reliably for that long without wasting money making some parts more durable than necessary.  It's an attempt to design a "wonderful one-hoss shay".  "Planned obsolescence" has to do with taking into account the fact that obsolescence is going to happen and planning for it.


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## Charles Spencer (Nov 28, 2015)

I actually first heard about planned obsolescence in school back in the 1960s.  The book was "The Waste Makers" by Vance Packard:

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/waste-makers-vance-packard/1101064264?ean=9781935439370

If I recall correctly he offered specific examples such as GE shortening the life of light bulbs.  Also, where possible, he offered examples of the best alternatives then available.


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## John Hasler (Nov 28, 2015)

Packard's thesis was that you are too stupid to buy what you need and modify your behavior based on experience.  He also never provided any independently verifiable evidence to support his claims.  He was just a sensationalist polemic writer.  There have been many before and since.


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## Cheeseking (Nov 28, 2015)

Funny how the masses demand to be paid $10 to produce a widget then turn around and expect to buy it for $5 at Wallyworld.   Complaining the whole time about corporate "greed"


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## David S (Dec 3, 2015)

Well big surprise today.  I do a lot of aluminium filing, usually with a 6" bastard single cut.  Even though I use chalk it is always pinning and I keep clearing with thin strips of hardwood.

Well I found that Nicholson makes a file especially for Aluminium.  I live in a small city and figured my chances are zero to find one.  Called my local industrial supplier and he said yes he has two 10".  A bit bigger than I wanted but a least they had them.  Went in to pick it up and noticed that on the heel it said "made in USA".  I said wow the last Nicholson I purchased a year ago is made in Mexico.

I commented and said how great is that made in USA.  He smiled and said next week is the 50 year anniversary of this store that his Dad and Mom started, AND they have been in stock ever since the store opened.  He said they are over 45 years old.

He told me over the phone that he could give me a deal on two.  My buddy builds experimental aircraft and is always working with Aluminium, so I said how much for two.  He said one is $17, you can have two for $22.  He can't wait to tell his Dad he finally sold not just one, but two.

I just tried it and it cuts fantastic, no pinning.  You can remove material quite quickly and if you hold the file differently get a fairly nice finish.

For anyone interested the model number for the 10" is 00047N.

David


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## savarin (Dec 3, 2015)

I swear by their 07917N for aluminium
Loaded up with wd40 it cuts real fast and leaves a very good finish.


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