# Cold computer???



## Transformer (Feb 16, 2015)

I have my recently CNC'd lathe and computer in my garage.  No heat, so temperature is around 6 to 10 (Canadian degrees).  Also water comes in from the driveway in our frequent heavy rains so probably more moisture than there should be.  I know a lot of you out there operate your machines in similar conditions, do you think the conditions are causing the  computer to lock up, not read disks, or start to read them then stop etc.  If this is a common problem I may try and move the computer inside and string some 20 ft. cables.  Or if not a common problem I will just focus on the computer itself.  Thanks.


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## JimDawson (Feb 16, 2015)

It sounds like you have a failing hard drive or power supply, I would install a second drive and back up everything as soon as possible. 

The climate here in the Portland area is much the same as you have.  I operate my CNC under similar conditions, and I never turn the computer off.


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## woodguy (Feb 16, 2015)

Take the computer into the house and let it sit for an hour or 2.  Start it up and see if the behavior changes and you'll have your answer.  While low temperatures shouldn't be an issue to the electronics, they will be an issue to mechanical components like the fans and their bearings, disk drive motors etc.  If for example the fan in the power supply were to stop running, the power supply would shut down immediately after you powered on the system.  The temps you cite aren't extreme though - a test is in order.


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## dracozny (Feb 16, 2015)

Transformer said:


> I have my recently CNC'd lathe and computer in my garage.  No heat, so temperature is around 6 to 10 (Canadian degrees).  Also water comes in from the driveway in our frequent heavy rains so probably more moisture than there should be.  I know a lot of you out there operate your machines in similar conditions, do you think the conditions are causing the  computer to lock up, not read disks, or start to read them then stop etc.  If this is a common problem I may try and move the computer inside and string some 20 ft. cables.  Or if not a common problem I will just focus on the computer itself.  Thanks.


moisture can be a potential issue, at the very least consider a dehumidifier in the cabinet. although one for the whole shop is ideal. are you using a HDD or SSDD for storage? if using a HDD I highly recommend you switch to an SSDD to mitigate vibration issues which will cause those same kind of problems. alternatively I have had bad ram or failing motherboard cause similar symptoms to yours.


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## MarkStephen (Feb 16, 2015)

Yes. the problem comes from the computer (especially hard disk) that is cold, then starts to heat up and develops condensation. Having been in the electronics / computer repair business I always allowed the time for a computer to warm up and dry out after bringing it in from the cold before I powered it up.

There are several things you can do to work around this for your environment. One would be to replace the Hard disk with a solid state unit, pricey but will go a long way to avoiding such things in an environment that is hostile to the devices. Another thing you could do is provide an insulated enclosure where you could maintain an even temperature. Another thing would be to follow what JimDawson has mentioned as I was typing. Leave the computer on so it does not get cold and invite the conditions for condensation to occur.

Mark


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## mhooper (Feb 16, 2015)

Transformer said:


> I have my recently CNC'd lathe and computer in my garage.  No heat, so temperature is around 6 to 10 (Canadian degrees).  Also water comes in from the driveway in our frequent heavy rains so probably more moisture than there should be.  I know a lot of you out there operate your machines in similar conditions, do you think the conditions are causing the  computer to lock up, not read disks, or start to read them then stop etc.  If this is a common problem I may try and move the computer inside and string some 20 ft. cables.  Or if not a common problem I will just focus on the computer itself.  Thanks.


Computers have a fairly limited temperature range at which they will operate.  Lap tops will slow down dramatically when the air temperature drops to 34 deg F. 
You might try installing some type of heater (with thermostat) in the computer cabinet.   

mhooper


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## ZeptoBit (Feb 17, 2015)

In my opinion 6 to 10C is not a low temperature for computers. Most components will be specified to run from 0C, some lower.

High humidity and *changing *temperatures can be a problem because of water condensing.

I would worry about the water, not the temperature. But heating could be indirectly beneficial by helping to keep the computer dry.

Most components will last longer at low temperatures, twice as long for every 10C drop is typical. Electrolytical capacitors, used in the power supply and on the motherboard can be a problem, they will loose capacitance with lower temperature, but unless they are undersized or damaged in the first place it should not be a problem at 6C.


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## Galane (Mar 8, 2015)

A friend owns a large plasma cutting table. In the winter he has to aim two portable heaters at the computer to get it warm enough to boot. At times the shop gets cold enough the computer's own heat isn't enough to keep it going.

In the summer he has to have fans blowing at the computer and the plasma cutter to keep them from overheating. He keeps saying he's going to build temperature controlled control booth...


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## Boswell (Mar 8, 2015)

I generally agree with ZeptoBit. I would think that the most temperature sensitive parts of a computer are the moving parts. Fans and Hard-Drive.  You don't need the fans in the cold but you might consider a Solid State drive to replace the mechanical hard drive. Also if you have trouble keeping it warm even when running, you might try blocking the vents.  Another part that is often overlooked in very cold weather is the monitor. If it is LCD then there is some risk in VERY cold temps that it could fail (crack) or not work well. I have heard about LCDs failing but I have never seen it personally.


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## savarin (Mar 8, 2015)

Not for CNC but my laptop in the workshop is permanently on. Its approx 12 years old, running xp, on mains as battery died years ago, separate monitor as the screen died 4 years ago. The only time its been turned off is during the powercut when the cyclone hit.
Its very humid here and does get below 48'F in the winter  I believe that if I kept it turned off till required it would never have lasted as long as it has.
I have had hard drives fail on other machines but only when turning on / booting (or failing to boot)
I'm a firm believer that keeping it at a stable temperature extends its lifespan.


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## Keith Foor (Apr 8, 2016)

Knowing something of computers ( I was in the IT field for 16 years) I know there are a couple ways to put computers in less than ideal environments and have them survive it.  First is the type of computer in use.  There are specific computer systems both portable and fixed (sort of) that are hardened or rugged in their design.  Panasonic Toughbook is one that comes to mind.  This is a laptop that gets heavy use by the military and public safety agencies across the US.  New units are very expensive but are frequently available on the used market for reasonable sums of money.  There are docking stations that are available for them that could be mounted to a machine in the way a DRO head is mounted.  The second style is what is referred to as a MDT or mobile data terminal.  These are car computers.  They are modular in that the computer and monitor are connected by cables and the monitor and keyboard are remote of the CPU cabinet.  These too will mount in the same manner as a DRO head.  They run off 12 volts so they would require a power supply.  Again, these new are silly expensive in my mind but do show up on ebay and government auctions regularly and depending on the requirements for CPU and memory are a reasonable choice for a CNC mill or lathe.  Motorola has made several over the years and continues to make them.    Another option is an industrial computer.  These are very similar to what a CNC mill / lathe control panel looks like and have touch screens and hardened keyboards for implimentation in harsh environments.  These can be built on standard parts and be upgraded in some cases.  Again, eBay and some computer knowledge is going to be your friend here.  

Another option is the inexpensive tablet with a DIY mount running a remote desktop application controlling a remote computer in a less harsh environment.  

What the computer is installed in has alot to do with it's serviceability as well.  A good NEMA enclosure with forced are circulation can take the most fragile of computer systems and protect them from the environment they would otherwise be exposed to.  Some basic filters that can be cleaned and / or replaced will keep things like metal dust and swarf from getting into the computer and wreaking havoc on it.  

Things to look for are going to be real serial / parallel ports on the computer.  The USB adapters may or may not work with the software you choose.  Drivers are always an issue and should be closely considered when selecting a computer for CNC (or any other physically interfaced) hardware integration project.  For those running a Linux based CAM application, drivers are paramount.  Nother is worse than buying a computer for a project and loading it up with Linux to find that it's video card is not supported by the release of Linux you have and drivers being non-existent.   Make sure that you have drivers available for your operating system of choosing before laying down your money on a computer.  It will save you in the long run.


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