# 6.5mm Creedmoor Bartlein Barrel and Impact Action



## bretthl (Sep 10, 2019)

This took me two days!

I built a barrel vice (they're expensive at Brownells):




followed by an action wrench to fit the integral Picatinny rail:







After carefully centering the bore with a PTG Grizzly rod, 4 jaw and outboard spider I found the barrel shank and bore to be running fairly concentric:

View attachment P1000492.mp4

















Tenon Layout:




Thread profile and final tenon length:




Threading w/ carbide insert:




Finished thread (no lead in thread removal required with Impact action):




Bolt nose recess cut with a carbide insert boring bar:




Cutting the chamber with PTG live pilot finishing reamer (head stock aligned dead center):




Chamber final depth checked w/ Clymer Go-Gauge + 0.003" for barrel make up:







Checking final chamber run out (too much, we'll see):

View attachment P1000505.mp4

















Barrel installed (25" from muzzle to breach face based on max velocity vs. barrel length for 142gn SMK test performed by rifleshooter.com):


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## Dabbler (Sep 11, 2019)

My 6.5 was on a surgeon action with an integral picatinny rail, very similar to yours, except that mine was 6.5X47 Lapua.  I'm getting just under 3000 fps using 151 gr Berger VLD bullets.  Accuracy International folding stock.  1 in 7 twist.

I hope you enjoy your rifle as much as I do mine!


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## Tozguy (Sep 11, 2019)

Very nice. Hope you have the results on target that you are looking for.
Re the barrel vise, do you plan to hold it as in the picture or eventually make a dedicated mount for it.
Your action wrench is awesome.


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## Flyinfool (Sep 11, 2019)

I bought the Brownells barrel vice and action wrench before I had machining capabilities, I used it to build a small ring Swedish Mauser carbine in 6.5 x 55. There are a lot of deer that do not like that gun. That is the most accurate gun I own. Now that I have machines, I just have to make jaws when I work on something.

The finish on the stock is automotive 2K clearcoat with a satin hardener. First coat brushed on heavy, then wet sanded and the final coat sprayed with an artist airbrush. (It was what I had) These pics are after 15 years of beating thru the woods.







Not sure why the pics came in upside down????


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## bretthl (Sep 11, 2019)

Tozguy said:


> Very nice. Hope you have the results on target that you are looking for.
> Re the barrel vise, do you plan to hold it as in the picture or eventually make a dedicated mount for it.
> Your action wrench is awesome.



Good point.  Good enough for barrel make up but might not be so good for barrel break out on factory rifles.  When I get to that point with my 6.5 Howa I will just cut a relief grove in the barrel at the action face if it gives me trouble (that is where all of the make up compression is stored).


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## Janderso (Sep 11, 2019)

Very nice work Bretthl.
I have one of those Barreled receivers from Brownells.
It's a Howa in 6.5 Creedmore.
Any good?


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## bretthl (Sep 11, 2019)

Janderso said:


> Very nice work Bretthl.
> I have one of those Barreled receivers from Brownells.
> It's a Howa in 6.5 Creedmore.
> Any good?



Yes.  Mine also is a barreled action from Brownells.  I used it in PRS for two years.  Mounted in an Masterpiece Arms BA light chassis.  No bedding required due to flat bottom design.  The ejector pin has taken a beating though so that needs to be replaced and the lands have moved 0.027" after about 2700 rounds of 140/42 gn.


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## Janderso (Sep 11, 2019)

2,700 rounds in a high power rifle is a lot of use, IMHO.
.001" per hundred rounds movement.
I don't know very much about the subject, but it seems like .027" is a bunch.


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## Dabbler (Sep 11, 2019)

Here's my rifle.  I've only fired 300 rounds through it.  The scope is a 16X80mm.  Barrel length 23" Titanium muzzle break.  22 lbs overall.


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## Janderso (Sep 11, 2019)

Dang Dabbler,
That's a scope.
I like the compensator too.
The thumb through stock is great.
What brand is that stock? I had one like that on my M1A. Lost it in the fire along with my Garand from CMP and many others.


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## bretthl (Sep 11, 2019)

Janderso said:


> 2,700 rounds in a high power rifle is a lot of use, IMHO.
> .001" per hundred rounds movement.
> I don't know very much about the subject, but it seems like .027" is a bunch.



That's my first 6.5 CM and I have read that the barrel is good for about 3000 rounds.  Now Dabber's awsome 6.5x47 Lapua should get longer barrel life (or so they say).  He needs to get out and shoot it more!


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## Dabbler (Sep 11, 2019)

Yeah, I should.  The stock is an Accuracy International foldable stock, so it is really heavy.
The comp is titanium, with 7.5 degree forward vents for maximum flow.  the 6 vents are every 60 degrees for a balanced design.  .010 clearance between bullet and vents.  As such, there is no perceptible recoil - you see the bullet hit the paper every time...

I quit my range membership 2 years after building this...  so I haven't had it out much.


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## Janderso (Sep 11, 2019)

"" there is no perceptible recoil""
That's incredible. I had a Cooley compensator on my Colt receiver, on a high end match barrel and bolt (JP Enterprises) in my AR.
I was amazed how much recoil was reduced.
Example. With a standard AR shooting 5.56 vs my Colt AR I would lose my site picture from re-coil, the compensated rifle stayed on the bag, I never lost my site picture.
 I'm sold on them, they work.


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## Dabbler (Sep 11, 2019)

Nice.  I haven't heard of the Cooley.  The comp is my design - influenced by some of the swiss High pressure flow models on their sound modulator designs... note this compensator is Very Loud Indeed...  (standing behind the shooter still requires serious hearing protection)


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## Janderso (Sep 12, 2019)

Yes, I had forgotten about that.
At my range there are concrete walls separating the stalls.
I had to wear quality ear muffs along with the foam inserts.


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## bretthl (Sep 12, 2019)

Dabbler said:


> Yeah, I should.  The stock is an Accuracy International foldable stock, so it is really heavy.
> The comp is titanium, with 7.5 degree forward vents for maximum flow.  the 6 vents are every 60 degrees for a balanced design.  .010 clearance between bullet and vents.  As such, there is no perceptible recoil - you see the bullet hit the paper every time...
> 
> I quit my range membership 2 years after building this...  so I haven't had it out much.



Do you have drawings that you could share for this compensator?


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## Janderso (Sep 12, 2019)

In the AR world a Benny Cooley compensator was a big deal.
I don't know much about it.
Dabbler,
You made one??
That's not an easy thing to do as I understand.


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## Dabbler (Sep 13, 2019)

re: drawings: I made the drawings around 8 years ago.  I could reproduce them, I guess.

The trouble is, that everything has to be turned concentric, and that the barrel threads have to be concentric to the lands to about .0004 or you will get serious problems. (the closer the better - we managed to get withing .0002 on concentricity and over .500 we were within one and a half tenths straight to the exit vector of the barrel.  There are a bunch of operations that happen from one side, then it is turned around and indicated in to one tenth in order to get the other ops to be right.  The external threads on the comp are less picky...  I suppose you could relax things a little and make the bore .040 larger than the bullet.  We chose .010 for our design.

The slots are made with a .125 HSS cutter, and they are (from memory) .210 wide. these are cut using a rotary table that is super solid, holding the finished piece at a 7.5 degree downward angle.  Trouble is, it is very touchy, and until I made several, it was easy to break the cutter off.  Titanium is very sticky.  Most carbides won't work because you need a very positive rake tool to cut with low enough pressure not to pooch the cutter.  It takes a looooong time to cut those slots...  I think it took about 40 minutes each, and there are 30 of them to cut...  I did about a third of them and a friend of mine took over, and then I finished off the last few.

The optimum for a comp seems to be around 40% of the force from the blast, since there's nothing that can be done about the reaction force from accelerating the bullet.  On our recoil sled, we seem to have achieved about 38%, by our calcs.  the rest of the perceived recoil is taken up in moving the rifle - with the big scope it weighs 10 Kg (22lbs).


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## bretthl (Nov 5, 2019)

Finally got this rifle finished!

Threaded the muzzle 5/8"-24




and made a brake with a design I have been wanting to try




I went all in on a stock from Foundation (these are incredible)




Using a load specific to my Howa 6.5 CM it shot okay (I need to work up a load specific to this rifle)


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## Janderso (Nov 5, 2019)

Well done sir.
Did the break work ok?
I've never seen that design. Patent?


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## bretthl (Nov 6, 2019)

Janderso said:


> Well done sir.
> Did the break work ok?
> I've never seen that design. Patent?



Thanks Janderso.  Not what I expected but I have not tried it without.  Next iteration I will increase the diameter, reduce the bore and leave slightly more distance between the baffles.  Trial and error!

You know when all is added up with a McMillan stock (adjustable cheek riser, sling studs, bottom rail, Picatinny adapter) the cost is about equal to the Foundation stock and you don't have to deal with tuning the inlet, bedding the action and the wait time.  Micarta is interesting material and feels rock solid.


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## Janderso (Nov 6, 2019)

You lost me.
I’m a novice.
I do appreciate good work though.


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## Dabbler (Nov 7, 2019)

I guess to each their own.  I love my Accuracy International folding stock.  The action is held by 7075 V blocks, and so it rock solid also.  -- the trouble it that it is very heavy!

My entire outfit, with an 80mm scope is just under 20 lbs...


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## Dhal22 (Nov 7, 2019)

Great thread!  And some serious skills shown, both machine and gun knowledge.


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## bretthl (Mar 14, 2020)

Following up on this thread from awhile back.  The first brake did not work as planned.  Too much downward force caused by too much gas being vented up.  The rifle literally bounces on the bi-pod.  I made a brake with a more conventional design and used a jam nut to simplify the timing.  Works much better.


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## Janderso (Mar 16, 2020)

Beautiful work!


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## Bamban (Mar 20, 2020)

Nicely done.  

Did you use a custom 6.5 Creedmoor reamer or just a plain SAAMI one?


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## Tozguy (Mar 20, 2020)

Using a jam nut design like that gives you the opportunity to use the brake as a tuner. After you work up a good load it would be easy to rotate the brake 180 degrees and try another group. It may or may not help the group but it would at least show if brake position has an effect on groups. Barrel tuning is controversial. I have personally been able to move a group around the target and change its shape by tuner adjustments. But on some other rifles there was no detectable impact from tuner experiments. But when they work it is sweet.


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## bretthl (Mar 20, 2020)

Bamban said:


> Nicely done.
> 
> Did you use a custom 6.5 Creedmoor reamer or just a plain SAAMI one?



SAAMI reamer from PT&G.  You know I tried the custom reamer route by sending three 0.223 Winchester dummy rounds to Dave Manson Reamers and requested that the reamer be ground to place the dummy round at the lands.  They missed it by 0.050".  Maybe I was asking too much for that small of a cartridge?


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## Bamban (Mar 20, 2020)

bretthl said:


> SAAMI reamer from PT&G.  You know I tried the custom reamer route by sending three 0.223 Winchester dummy rounds to Dave Manson Reamers and requested that the reamer be ground to place the dummy round at the lands.  They missed it by 0.050".  Maybe I was asking too much for that small of a cartridge?



Thank you.

I have 4 barrels for friends to finish, all AR10 6.5 Creed. I have the PTG SAAMI to use.

If you have to do a 223 project in the future, I have one with "0" FB, 0.062, .084, 0.100, 0.140, 0.170. All with 0.253 necks, except the Wylde and the "0" fb both have 0.2558.

I will be glad to loan you one.


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## bretthl (Mar 20, 2020)

Bamban said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I have 4 barrels for friends to finish, all AR10 6.5 Creed. I have the PTG SAAMI to use.
> 
> ...



Thanks, I will keep that in mind.  I'm not familiar with that reamer.  Are you required to ream the free bore after chambering?

I've got three new barreled rifles and 6" of new snow.  This is killing me.


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## Bamban (Mar 20, 2020)

bretthl said:


> Thanks, I will keep that in mind.  I'm not familiar with that reamer.  Are you required to ream the free bore after chambering?
> 
> I've got three new barreled rifles and 6" of new snow.  This is killing me.



All the 223 dreamers I have do not need to follow up with a throated, just run them to headspace.

Forgot, also have a 224 Valky and 22 Nosler


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## 38super (Mar 21, 2020)

Save the comp, cut the ports thru.  Don't worry about finish, exhaust gases don't care.  Make sure the bullet will not strike any baffle.  Warn anyone to the side of you, very loud.   It's loud enough to loosen dentures and fillings.


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## Tozguy (Mar 21, 2020)

Actually using a brake at a range is a serious matter. They are not allowed at my home range. Where they are allowed it would be appropriate to choose a time when there is no one else around or to choose a bench as far away from other shooters as possible. The consensus seems to be that if you use a brake you are making others pay for your problem of having more firepower than you can handle.
If you are alone in the desert then that is an entirely different situation.


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## Dabbler (Mar 21, 2020)

I agree with you @Tozguy with a few modifiers...

Ear protection is mandatory at all ranges in our area, and compensators are the rule here, not the exception.  On the custom one I made, the vents face forward 7 degrees, Using a Db meter, the net increase in noise at any point behind the muzzle is between 4 and 6 Db.  With hearing protection, you can't tell the difference.  There is also no 'slap' from the shock wave either.

When doing spotted shooting with the guy sitting on the other side of the action, with the brake on or off, it seems the same to them as well.


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## Tozguy (Mar 21, 2020)

If compensators are the rule where you shoot then it is easy to understand that people know what to expect and gear up for it. I wonder if all compensators are designed as thoughtfully as your is Dabbler. However where it is not the rule and the guy next to you is trying to shoot a 6PPC then he/she will feel the shock wave even from an uncompensated 6PPC from the next bench. That's why competitors will wait for their neighbour to shoot first to avoid 'doubles' that will kill their group. If a rifle is powerful enough to need a muzzle compensator then the blast must be considerably harsher than that of a 6PPC. Redirecting such a blast sideways towards your neighbour is basically punishing him for something you can't manage yourself. It is not something I would do without their permission.
Hearing protection is the rule even when shooting 22lr. It is a stretch to think that any shooter is thus adequately protected from any level of blast from a neighbouring bench.
To me it is not a question of who's rights trump those of someone else. It is a question of awareness and wanting to contribute to making our experience at the range enjoyable for all.


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## Dabbler (Mar 21, 2020)

100% agree!  My comp is on a 6.5 X 47 Lapua - not a powerhouse cartridge.  It is there to stop tail blast from upsetting the bullet.  Makes 3/4" groups go to .300 inch groups.


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## 38super (Mar 21, 2020)

Don't go to a USPSA open gun match.


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## Dabbler (Oct 2, 2022)

38super said:


> Don't go to a USPSA open gun match.



I've gone to lots of sanctioned matches in Canada.  I declare it well before the match, and have them witness me shooting with/without the barrel break.  Only once was I not permitted.  The match organizer (who was not the person who refused)  after the match said that if I could demonstrate that it made no difference on the firing line, he *would* have permitted it.

15 years shooting that gun.  one exception.


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## bretthl (Oct 5, 2022)

38super said:


> Don't go to a USPSA open gun match.


Or an F-Class match ...


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