# 1340GT decision



## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

I'm very close to putting the down on this lathe, there are seven 3 phase available in mid Nov, all single phase are gone. I'm still learning, and the PM1228 has been good, but it's my feeling I could use a better machine, both size, and power, I'll have to self improve to use the precision. The airport contract (my current cash cow)ends on Dec 31st, so the cash flow will decrease dramatically then. It's easy to rationalize with myself. What reservations do you have on this?


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## ttabbal (Sep 26, 2020)

I think you should definitely get it! 

Send me one too!


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## Asm109 (Sep 26, 2020)

Why would I have reservations while spending your money?


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## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

We all watch out for each other, my problem is I don't mind spending my own money too.


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## erikmannie (Sep 26, 2020)

I just took my family’s finances way out on a limb (all the way, actually) with my recent PM-1660TL (and tooling and rigging) acquisition. I have ZERO regrets. This was almost $33,000 (plus buku interest); we will be paying this off for about 4-6 years.

I feel VERY good about the company (PM). This is equipment that ought to last me the rest of my life, and a lathe is good, clean fun. 

I had to sacrifice out of state schooling, getting a motor vehicle (I don’t have one), and any traveling that we would have done. I think it is worth it to be broke for many years in order to obtain a nice machine.

Buy the machine now while you have the opportunity!

I will admit that my prior experience with PM (two previous machines) weighed heavily in my decision. Had this customer service experience been merely “fine”, I probably wouldn’t have assumed the risk of such a large purchase. This was a case where a company showed me that they 100% have their act together, and this put them first in line for my business.


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## mikey (Sep 26, 2020)

It's a good lathe, Mike. Haven't seen many "I hate the PM1340GT" threads. To be sure, there will be nitpicky things but PM will make those things right. I have a sense of your needs now and I think this will work out well for you.


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## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

I could not even find a used one online, I'm not a real good hunter, but Google only had one, and it was sold already. There are high end used machines online in this price range, but I would hate to get something here, and find that it has problems that were not evident with first inspections.


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## .LMS. (Sep 26, 2020)

Aukai said:


> I'm very close to putting the down on this lathe, there are seven 3 phase available in mid Nov, all single phase are gone.



Are you wanting a single phase or a three phase?


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## kb58 (Sep 26, 2020)

I'd answer sort of backwards:
Is having it going to make you money?
Will there be sufficient work of your own to justify it?
Will that work exceed the capacity of your current machine?
Do you have the space and access needed to fit it into your work area?

All that aside, I'll guess that since you're asking, you already know that you don't _really _need it, but simply want something nice that'll be available in case something comes up. That counts for a lot, and you're the only one who can answer what that's worth! Remember, asking in the Church of Machinery whether you should buy into the faith even more will nearly always result in you hearing yes, so careful, because it's not our money!


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## mmcmdl (Sep 26, 2020)

Aukai said:


> We all watch out for each other, my problem is I don't mind spending my own money too.



That a boy Mike !


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## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

I bought the 1228 as my first car without knowing how to drive. It is for personal use, but surprisingly I have a project that is making some cash. I don't expect it to be a long run, but it's fun, and I'm learning. The car gets me where I want to go, and does what I want it to do, but I would be a little happier if it was bigger, and had more power.


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## PT Doc (Sep 26, 2020)

Precision Matthews states 5 year warranty. That is for parts only. If you need the parts removed and new ones installed, you as the consumer pay for that labor?


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## Ianagos (Sep 26, 2020)

Hmm if it’s your money and you can pay it off and not take a loan I’d say go for it. I recommend the 3 phase and purchase a VFD. 3 phase motors don’t blow capacitors and pretty much just work. No moving parts like single phase motors also smoother. 

That and I recommend getting a dro with tool offsets. That can really increase your productivity.

I also have a cnc lathe for sale if you would be interested contact me.

Oops forgot you were in Hawaii scratch my offer for selling the cnc lathe. I have no clue how I could get it there. I still have that cnc knee mill too...


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## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

My uncle is a TV repairman, and has a b**chen' set of tools  I don't think that any company offers field service, and for me especially.
I forgot to add I have the 5hp RPC for my DoAll saw.


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## mmcmdl (Sep 26, 2020)

Ianagos said:


> I also have a cnc lathe for sale if you would be interested contact me.



Whatcha got ?


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## Ianagos (Sep 26, 2020)

Clausing storm cnc 300.







Machine is amazing condition. I met the original owner and I have all the original documentation and owners manuals.

I forgot my Mazak sqt18ms is for sale too.

I’m trying to purchase a brand new cnc lathe and trust me they are not cheap. Like more than a pretty nice house...


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## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

That's a dream machine, I said I was having fun, that there would give me stress 
I am not at the CNC stage yet, thank you though.


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## mmcmdl (Sep 26, 2020)

Looks similar to the Makino/Guildameister I ran for years .


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## Ianagos (Sep 26, 2020)

Hey similar price as a new manual machine that’s why I offered mentioned it. Cnc is definitely a lot easier than manual to get parts made and quality finishes. But I’m used to mazatrol programming where I can pop simple parts out faster than most can set their compound to 30 degrees.







A part like this is done in under an hour. 
Mirror surface finsihes. Then if I want to make another cycle time is like 5min


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## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

I envy that type of function, I would be lost.


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## mmcmdl (Sep 26, 2020)

I had the Fanuc conversational which is probably similar to Mazatrol . As you said , I could program and make the part complete before a manual lathe would be set up . I should've bought the machine back then .


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## mmcmdl (Sep 26, 2020)

Aukai said:


> I envy that type of function, I would be lost.



No you wouldn't Mike . All canned cycles . Gravy !


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## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

Let me learn to run a DRO first......


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## Ianagos (Sep 26, 2020)

Yea if doing mazatrol it’s pretty easy but with a cam system it’s even faster but not all at the control. 

You don’t need to buy my machine but if you want to purchase a cnc let me know I can help you and get you started. I’ve helped some other guys get started and I don’t mind helping.


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## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

Awesome, thank you


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## mmcmdl (Sep 26, 2020)

I eventually went to Unigraphics and smartcam but I could still program faster at the console . If I had the time and space I would love to get a smallish cnc lathe and maybe a prototrac BP . That's all I would ever need at this stage of life .


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## Ianagos (Sep 26, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> I eventually went to Unigraphics and smartcam but I could still program faster at the console . If I had the time and space I would love to get a smallish cnc lathe and maybe a prototrac BP . That's all I would ever need at this stage of life .



I like mazatrol at the machine. 

I’m between a doosan machine at around 120k and a Mazak around 160k 

The doosan does not have anything but g code. But Mazak has mazatrol.

But I have that smallish cnc lathe (it’s very compact and the cabinets open from the side so it can be against a wall.)

And a 3 axis dynapath that I have to sell.


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## mmcmdl (Sep 26, 2020)

Interesting . I had a Dynapath as well . Nice little machine . I sold a ship pot load of my cnc lathe tooling years ago , still have alot though . Looks like the Mazak has the same turret as the Makino . ( I shouldn't have opened this thread )


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## mmcmdl (Sep 26, 2020)

Which reminds me . I believe I have the Fanuc books at home and I promised them to Alloy . I'll have to try and locate them tomorrow .


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## Ianagos (Sep 26, 2020)

My Mazak has vdi holders with live tooling capability. If you are interested let me know it’s a great machine. Holds tenths. I just had to do a batch of 15 parts and held +-.0002 on diameter over two days. I was pretty impressed actually. Once the machine is warmed up it will do better than than for the 7 or so parts I did the second day they measured within a tenth.

But my shop is climate controlled so that can make a big difference when working to tenths.


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## ACHiPo (Sep 26, 2020)

Aukai said:


> My uncle is a TV repairman, and has a b**chen' set of tools  I don't think that any company offers field service, and for me especially.
> I forgot to add I have the 5hp RPC for my DoAll saw.


Reminds me of a colleague I had from Czechoslovakia.  When he got his electrical engineering degree his uncle said, “that’s good!!  You will make a lot of money fixing TVs!


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## mmcmdl (Sep 26, 2020)

Is the spindle programmable on that Mazak ?  Ooops , sorry , I meant the Storm


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## Ianagos (Sep 26, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> Is the spindle programmable on that Mazak ?



Full c axis on the main and the sub spindle has orientation I believe but you cannot mill on it. 

The sub spindle is programmable back and forth in the b axis is what Mazak calls it.


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## jaek (Sep 26, 2020)

To the OP - if you’re about to have more time and less money maybe better to think about what you hope to gain from the 1340GT vs the 1228? $5k will buy a lot of tooling etc.

Have you run into length or diameter limitations yet?


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## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

Length most definitely, diameter not so much. I have to pull the tail stock off the bed to set up a long/deep drilling operation. I cannot use a larger diameter drill bit because it would have to use my MT4 adapter plus the bit, and the tail stock is off the bed again.


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## erikmannie (Sep 26, 2020)

Consider getting the factory DRO. You won’t even need to read the manual to figure out how to use it.

 I find that a DRO on a lathe makes the work go a lot faster (and easier!). Everybody knows that a DRO on a lathe is completely unnecessary, however.


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## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

Available on backorder.....


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## erikmannie (Sep 26, 2020)

Aukai said:


> Available on backorder.....



I had to wait 3-4 months for both of my lathes w/factory DRO from PM. I enjoyed the anticipation.

Would you keep your PM-1228 as a second lathe?


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## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

No, it will go to defray the costs, turn key, chucks, tool holders, and a small assortment of cemented carbide, and HSS cutters.


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## erikmannie (Sep 26, 2020)

Aukai said:


> No, it will go to defray the costs, turn key, chucks, tool holders, and a small assortment of cemented carbide, and HSS cutters.



Makes sense. Plus the matter of space limitations, I would imagine.


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## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

Yes that too, it's close enough in size to not make it practical, I can only run one at a time too.


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## mmcmdl (Sep 26, 2020)

Uh oh Mike , you're gonna need bigger tooling !


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## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

The BXAs hold 1/4"-3/4" that I have, what ya got in mind


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## mmcmdl (Sep 26, 2020)

Will the BXA fit that 13" or is it too small ? I have a ton of CXAs and Fims #4s .


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## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

I was wrong, I looked for it. It was dad as the TV repairman.


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## Aukai (Sep 26, 2020)

I says 12-14"


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## Ianagos (Sep 27, 2020)

One thing is go for carbide tooling. 3/4 shank should be a good size. Ccmt inserts from China are not bad. Sure they don’t hold up forever but they are very cheap. The threading tools work very well as well.

I used Chinese inserts to cut the threads on that part I showed earlier. That was 17-4 stainless around 33 hrc hardness. So not hard turning but somewhat hard material.

I had another part that was 45hrc and I had to use Chinese grooving and parting too to cut it and it cut great.

The one thing that never cuts well is 1018 or mild steel. Hss maybe could get a better finish on that.

Sorry just more suggestions. I recommend you check out a guy called robrenz on YouTube he talks about adding a dro the right way and adding way covers to his machine as well as a solid toolpost mount.


I think I’m getting a bit excited in anticipation for you. I have an old American pacemaker and it’s great and has so many features but it’s just bigger than I need. I’ve been think about a new pm machine just so I can have something that takes up less space. The thing is I’m worried about stepping down to a pretty basic machine when compared to some of the features I have on the pacemaker. But the pm machines sound very nice. What I really want is an old Mazak manual lathe but those are rare as hens teeth and when you see a good condition they want an arm and a leg.


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## Aukai (Sep 27, 2020)

If I get the DRO it will be mounted, I have DROs for the lathe, and the mill, both are still in the box, oh and another selling point for the 1228


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## Mitch Alsup (Sep 27, 2020)

Aukai said:


> What reservations do you have on this?



Check with your power company to see if you have easy access to 3 phase.
{For example:: I do not.}


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## Ianagos (Sep 27, 2020)

Mitch Alsup said:


> Check with your power company to see if you have easy access to 3 phase.
> {For example:: I do not.}



But you can get a vfd if it’s only the single motor on the lathe. And then there is lots of Beni fits to having a VFD like variable speed.


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## Aukai (Sep 27, 2020)

I do have a 5hp Rotary Phase Converter for my saw.


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## Ianagos (Sep 27, 2020)

Aukai said:


> I do have a 5hp Rotary Phase Converter for my saw.



I have true three phase in my shop and I’m thinking I’m going to put a VFD on my surface grinder. My lathe has a 27 speed transmission so not real need there


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## Aukai (Sep 28, 2020)

Oh boy, the smoke is in the wire, might be getting it by Christmas.


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## ArmyDoc (Sep 28, 2020)

So long as you aren't still paying for it when the extra money runs out, I'd say this is a nice lathe for what you've described your needs to be.  Only concern I have is that you said money is going to get tighter when this job ends in December.  How much tighter?  If you're buying on credit, and you know things are going to be tight come December... I think you know that's not a good idea.   Don't put yourself in the position of having to part with it in 6 months at a loss to make ends meet.


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## Aukai (Sep 28, 2020)

No it will be paid cash that I have now, but my eagerness to spend it is hard to control. I'm pretty much set for all the basic stuff now, but if quality stuff comes up, I tend to buy it, like my last Pratt chuck from the 80s way out shines the new chuck I have. With the cash flow going to diminish for awhile, I'll buy it now.
I also appreciate the concerns 
My lack of cash flow only effects my spending, she has my Social Insecurity checks, and we have not drawn from the retirement funds yet.


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## davidpbest (Sep 28, 2020)

I have owned the 1340GT for 4 years.  It’s a terrific machine. I tore mine down *to customize it* (which you would not need to do), and in the process discovered the internal qualities of the bearings, gears etc. are all top drawer.  You will get better surface finishes with a 3-phase motor (lots of discussion on the forum about that if you just dig around). The 1340 has an open bottom Norton gearbox, and that drips oil when you add lube to the gears.  The machine also requires gear swaps if you do a lot of metric threading.  I have been able to maintain 3/10ths repeatability after some tuning. I do not understand why someone would hesitate doing their own DRO install - most “dealer installed” DRO’s I have seen are hurry-up slap-it-together jobs that work but are not something a quality machinist would take pride in. Just my opinion, but if you can get good machinist results with a lathe, doing a quality DRO install yourself is not difficult and can be very rewarding.


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## mksj (Sep 28, 2020)

Independent of having 3 phase (RPC), I still recommend considering a VFD (WJ200) with the basic install outline. Adds about $500 to the total cost, can run it off of single phase and you get the benefits of controlled acceleration, variable speed on the fly and much faster braking. The quick braking is a significant factor without a foot brake. No need to run an RPC in the background. Overall, I agree with David, that the 1340GT can give very accurate turning and is a great lathe at the price point.


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## Aukai (Sep 28, 2020)

I will look at that, it will complicate things a little.
What hp rating for the VFD?
Looking at the Hitach VFDs online is like looking at an indexable carbide insert catalog, I'm gonna need a little help.


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## mksj (Sep 29, 2020)

VFD is the Hitachi WJ200-015SF, QMT sells them, but also other vendors like Drives Warehouse.








						WJ200-015SF
					






					www.driveswarehouse.com
				




Basic install thread. If you need some help and I can assist and/or send you files directly. QMT also has some information.








						Pm1340gt Lathe Basic Vfd Control Conversion Using The Stock Control Board And Switches
					

Many individuals buy the PM1340GT lathe as a 3 phase machine with the intent to convert it over to a VFD system, the usual VFD that is used is the Hitachi WJ200-015SF. Unfortunately the conversion often requires a somewhat complex and costly conversion process to optimize many of the VFD...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## Aukai (Sep 29, 2020)

Perfect, thank you for the clarification on which VFD to use, now I am looking at the wiring and it gave me the vapors, with all due respect, it's not going to be me. I would rather manage a traffic accident with 7-10 injured, and fatalities before I do that. I've gone back, and looked 3-4 times now, and it's not helping....


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## ArmyDoc (Sep 29, 2020)

Aukai said:


> Perfect, thank you for the clarification on which VFD to use, now I am looking at the wiring and it gave me the vapors, with all due respect, it's not going to be me. I would rather manage a traffic accident with 7-10 injured, and fatalities before I do that. I've gone back, and looked 3-4 times now, and it's not helping....


LOL!  I can so relate to this!  I might even have used the same analogy.  But remember, it's only because that's what you are familiar with and know the basic processes for managing trauma.  Working on electrical is no harder - just different.  That said, in Mksj hinted that you could have someone do this for you...

*  "....if you do not understand or cannot test the system, then have a system built for you and have an electrician work with the high voltage wiring."*

Mksj, how much does having such a system built for you generally cost?


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## mksj (Sep 29, 2020)

If one decides to do a basic install system, you only need to do the VFD enclosure, so as a minimum you need an electrical enclosure, VFD, braking resistor, main power disconnect, wiring and some misc. parts which total to around $500. This is outlined in the recommended enclosure build list I have posted. The wiring changes at the lathe control board are outlined in detail in the document provided, basically removing the high voltage wires to the contactors and reconnecting them to the low voltage VFD control inputs. If you are uncomfortable with the electrical get a friend who is and/or an electrician to do the wiring and VFD programming. I figure 2-3 hours of time, if that. Maybe some day QMT will offer a simple VFD package, but I have helped 100's of people with various VFD installs and everyone has been able to do it. That being said, lathes, mills, etc. can be purchased with the VFD installed and/or full blown CNC. The PM-1440BV can be purchased at close to the cost of the 1340GT plus the cost of a basic VFD system. A number of people have gone this route, and have been happy with the lathe. You can also get it with the DRO as part of the package.


			https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1440bv/
		


I also practiced medicine for 35+ years, and I learned how to do these installs knowing nothing about VFD's. My first VFD build was on my 1340GT took about 3 months to figure out the design, test and figure out the programming. The first 2 months was procrastination as to what to do, there was no information on the web or from QMT at the time. Doing a poor install job and not giving adequate concern for safety and interlock redundancy (what ifs) is a big gripe of mine with individuals that say it won't happen to me. Not understanding what your doing is just as dangerous, whatever the task.

As a hobbyist in the last 12 years I have done quite a few VFD system builds for various machines, but for the 1340GT I only do complete replacement control systems and rarely full system turnkey enclosures.  These are primarily designed around the use of a proximity stop control system with 2-3 levels of safety redundancy and all the bells/whistles. Everything electrical is replaced, switch gear, front panel and all the cabling, additional items are spec'd out on the build list. Takes several weeks, cost various by design features and component build list. I do not do this as a business, I make more in 1 hour of medical consulting then one of these systems, so a real PTA.  Since shipping has gotten prohibitively expensive turnkey systems are completely individualized primarily for local pickup.


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## Aukai (Sep 29, 2020)

Glad to see career medical people here, and there seems to be a few. I must be in the right hobby. Now you have me walking in circles talking to myself with a tape measure. The electrical simplification is a no brainer for the 1440. The 1340, is 70" foot print, the 1440 is 72" that is the straw that broke the camels back. My 1228 is 59"


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## Ianagos (Sep 29, 2020)

You can’t push the extra 2”? That’s so close


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## Aukai (Sep 29, 2020)

I can power the 1340 3PH, no VFD for now, and keep my foot print. I am heavily encroaching on my wife's clothes line. She's dealing with it, sorta...
If I rearrange my layout, there is one orientation I think will work, but if I miscalculate things will get tricky. I have a mechanics cart, a 211 MIG, and a Syncrowave 250 TIG that need to park. My working floor space is 8' x 11', cabinets on one wall, closets on the other wall, and I still need walk through space past the cabinets, and the closets which need access too, with enough room if I need to carry something. If I was pouring rice in a bag it would fit, cumbersome stuff is a little harder. Then what are the pros, and cons for each machine, 3ph vs 1ph vfd, do I give up a Taiwan machine? I'm not real happy with that thought. Thank you guys for letting me type this out, so I can see what I'm thinking. Input is appreciated.


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## Ianagos (Sep 29, 2020)

You know I got it figured out for you. Just send me the syncrowave 250 since that thing is huge and buy yourself a nice new compact dynasty280.


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## Aukai (Sep 29, 2020)

.........


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## Aukai (Sep 30, 2020)

I'm working on the VFD with the electrician....


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## Aukai (Oct 1, 2020)

The electrician will do the RPC for the saw, and do the VFD, and add another 220 line to power them. I have to go back and see what PDFs are relevant to the parts, and enclosures, the ones listed have to be downloaded to view, I have till Dec to get that up, and running. I'll start with the VFD listed


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## ArmyDoc (Oct 1, 2020)

If you don't mind my asking, how much is he going to charge to do all that?


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## ACHiPo (Oct 1, 2020)

Aukai said:


> Glad to see career medical people here, and there seems to be a few. I must be in the right hobby.


Comes in handy to remove the omnipresent slivers!


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## Aukai (Oct 1, 2020)

OMG, ain't that the truth 
I don't know Doc, Retired union electrician that has worked for me in the past, and was only a couple hundred for a lot of crawling in the attic, changing out boxes putting in new 220v lines, and my split AC power.


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## Aukai (Oct 6, 2020)

So I found out PM is an Aloris dealer, and asked to change my order to an Aloris QCTP, and separate Import tool holders. The Import tool holders are cheaper than online, and can be shipped with the machine. The Aloris, post is not cheaper than any other vendor on line(400.00), but what are you gonna do. I am requesting that they install the post. On my 1228, a set screw messed up the threads so bad on the original tool post that I had to fix threads when I changed to a Dorian QCTP. I have to find the numbers for the specialty holders that I have in AXA, and get those in BXA too now. The saga continues.,,


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## davidpbest (Oct 6, 2020)

This post may be of interest:   https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pm1340-gt-qctp.52005/#post-438943


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## Aukai (Oct 6, 2020)

Thank you David, my Dorian holders might be only 1 for a parting blade, the rest will be "generic" holders, and just the QCTP is Dorian. I need to pull them all out, and check what I have.


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## davidpbest (Oct 6, 2020)

The Dorian holder I had confused me because I could not get the height adjustment nut low enough to get a 5/8" tool holder to the CL of the spindle.   But my other point is this:  I bought about 25 of the BXA tool holder blocks from QMT and they have been fine, although I did replace the set screws with higher grade (not necessary but I have OCD).  I do have a couple of specialty tool blocks such as this BXA71 from Aloris, otherwise it's all QMT:



OTOH, I believe in buying Seco, Sandvik, Kennamental or Iscar insert tool holders when at all possible.


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## Aukai (Oct 6, 2020)

David, that is the exact parting blade I got from Mikey, and the tool holder is an Aloris  AXA, I need to make sure I replace this one in BXA with Aloris too. Thank you, I have to see what other holders I need, like boring bar, V groove, and what ever. I'm asking for 15 of the Generic tool holders, I'm starting to get anxiety with the total climbing, but if it comes with the machine it's free shipping, and add the VFD on top of this too....


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