# So how did that cheapo eBay kit work out for you?



## graham-xrf (Dec 4, 2019)

OK - so you tried eBay and checked the "Free Postage" box. Setting aside the pisspoor keyword search algorithm, you see wall-to-wall digital calipers at prices that seem unbelievable.

You wonder how, at the price, such stuff can even be transported from Hong Kong or Shenzhen, and over the lands to end up at "Chez Machinist" via the minimum wage gig-economy distribution system. Yeah - it was made by some robot .. maybe?

This is not exclusively about measuring kit. Have you ever bought a cheap import and found it to "pretty good", and therefore great value for money?

I bought a digital caliper, allegedly "Silverline", but unbranded on the actual item, for all of about £11 ($14.40). It has done about 8 or 9  actual measurements in it's life. Time to see how good it really is! The Bowers Metrology gauge blocks are borrowed. Strange custom values, apparently unused, wring-able, Grade 1.


The Silverline reads anywhere from 12.46mm to 12.48mm. There are (few) times it reads 12.49mm.
The 0.04mm, (0.00157") error is just unacceptable. For me, if something "fits" without wobbling or sticking, then it is usually good enough, but even I am disappointed to be living with 16 tenths adrift!



Then there is the budget "Powerfix Profi+" from the "Toolzone" centre section of the Aldi discount (mainly food) store for £9.50 ($14.44). If it is to be stashed for more than a couple of weeks, I have to take the battery out. Even when I get the zero setting to be nicely repeatable, I can't do anything about what it thinks 12.5mm (0.49212 inch) is.



The Mitutoyo Dial Caliper was a pre-loved from a eBay auction, scored for £13.50 + about £3 postage. A bargain I think, because you just clamp it on, and it just works! No batteries is an advantage. I don't have a Starret, nor Brown & Sharpe, nor any other high end stuff, but I guess they would perform much the same as the Japanese kit. This is now the working caliper of choice. I would like the same in metric.

For the reference..


Maybe also a picture of the gauge block stuff

My 2-piece MT3 reamer kit has arrived. £12.96 it was! Wow! Any good? We shall see soon enough.
Here --> LINK

I don't really want to be bottom-of-the-barrel cheapskate all the time when it comes to tools, but I still can't feel OK to spend more than double the cost of the (admittedly bargain) SB-9C on a Starret or Mitutoyo!


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## Winegrower (Dec 4, 2019)

I have a Mitutoyo digital 6" caliper and a Mitutoyo digital 1" mike, reads to 0.00005.    These are exactly spot on (it's always plus/minus a count) with every gauge block or ball I've checked.    But, also, my $10 harbor freight digital caliper is good to within plus/minus 0.001 every time I've checked.  

What the HF version lacks is absolute zero, so it takes a reset basically every time I pick it up.

The 6" digital is around $100 on eBay, but there is a lot of suspicion that these are copy knockoffs.   For sure you can get a good one for $150 or so.


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## Nogoingback (Dec 4, 2019)

It seems that folks experiences with super cheap Chinese stuff is mixed.  Some folks find them OK and some, like your calipers
are simply junk.  So buying this stuff is a matter of rolling the dice.  Good deals are available on quality tools at 
reasonable prices if you can be patient and watch for a while.


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## RJSakowski (Dec 4, 2019)

I have found that issues of of low accuracy or lack of repeatability come down to mechanical issues rather than scale/electronic.  I bought two Harbor Freight digital calipers that had attrocious repeatability.  The problem was that the gib was too loose,causing the jaw to pivot on the head.  It was loose because the beam surface was rough and uneven.  A bit of work with a stone smoothed the surface and removed the high spots so the gib could be properly tightened.

I have eight instruments with 10 micron capacitive scales and all compare to within +/- .01mm (the scale resolution) against my micrometers


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## RJSakowski (Dec 4, 2019)

Winegrower said:


> I have a Mitutoyo digital 6" caliper and a Mitutoyo digital 1" mike, reads to 0.00005.    These are exactly spot on (it's always plus/minus a count) with every gauge block or ball I've checked.    But, also, my $10 harbor freight digital caliper is good to within plus/minus 0.001 every time I've checked.
> 
> What the HF version lacks is absolute zero, so it takes a reset basically every time I pick it up.
> 
> The 6" digital is around $100 on eBay, but there is a lot of suspicion that these are copy knockoffs.   For sure you can get a good one for $150 or so.


There was a lot of publicity about counterfeit Mitutoyo calipers in he past couple of years. Clearly, $28 Mitutoyo's on eBay are knockoffs bit there in no guarantee that a $100 pair isn't a knockoff as well.  The going advice was to buy only from a reputable dealer.The lowest legitimate price for the Motutoyo Absolute that I have seen was around $109 on sale.


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## benmychree (Dec 4, 2019)

I have a Starrett digital caliper and a Swiss made dial caliper; the Starrett digital is accurate, but needs its battery disengaged after every use, it is probably a good 20 years old.  The Swiss one has no faults, but I would trust neither one for a close fit; the calipers get you close, then go with micrometers for close work.  I bought my Starrett 0-1" when I was still in high school for a bit over $20 (new), I am going on 75 years, and with everyday use, it is still as accurate as I require.   I have also gone through several Mitutoyo dial calipers in my years, I think they mostly suffered through crud getting caught in the gears, developing catchy-skippy places.  The thing I do not like about the digital tools is that they seem to never settle down to a constantly displayed measurement; I do like the zero set (absolute zero) feature at any point within its range.


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## westerner (Dec 4, 2019)

Ok. Let me speak to the Chinese Trade Takeover as it relates to less "fussy" stuff- 

A customer of mine had the need for a new starter. 1975 Ford F-250 with the 360 engine. Mind you, Ford quit producing these engines in 1976. In 2016, I fell under this truck to do the starter R&R. I found the "cheap" line O'Reilly Auto starter, with paint and tag still quite readable. I exchanged that starter for the "high" line unit from O'Reilly. It retailed for $50. It started the truck exactly ONE time. After that, the motor would spin, but the bendix would not throw. Took it back, and got my cash. I then went to CarQuest, and paid $65 for a starter remanufactured in Mexico. It is still in service. 

I cannot fathom the economics behind a system where this 20 pound chunk of iron and copper goes across the Pacific, has ANY BLOODY THING AT ALL DONE TO IT, and gets back across the ocean, thru several layers of wholesale/retail markups, and then into my hands with any hope of function, much less longevity, for 50 lousy bucks. They are eroding this economy from within. Rant over.


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## WesPete66 (Dec 5, 2019)

I had a simple project, a couple clevis pins for a linkage..  But I was having trouble getting a good fit on the pin. So I measure the hole (digital caliper) and make another pin. Same poor fit.. What the...  I grab my other digital caliper and start checking things. It was then I realized that the inside measure and the outside measure of the first caliper were different by about .004 (for equal size features).  Has anyone else found this one?


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## C-Bag (Dec 5, 2019)

I don't like digital calipers because the stupid batteries and if I need real accuracy I use a mic. I've given up on Mititoyou calipers. I bought dial one off eBay, made in Brazil. Was no better than a cheap no name $20 dual dial caliper that has two needles on one dial. One imperial one metric and seem dead on. The Mit was dead in a month, the cheapo is still fine. Bought a used Japanese Mit, looks nice moves smooth but is off so don't use it. If I run into a good Starett or Brown & Sharpe dial for a decent price ( I usually take one of my gages with me, forgot on the Mit) maybe. But why when my cheap dials work good?


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## Larry$ (Dec 5, 2019)

I've got a Fowler digital caliper that I've had for 12+- years. Batteries last about a year. I find calipers handy for quick measuring and especially like the zero anyplace function. They repeat quite well  but it is more awkward to use them and especially for internal readings. Where they fit, micrometers are easier to use and more accurate. I've got a 1950s set of Starret and a 10 year old  Mitutoyo that also has mechanical readout, both excellent. 
I have an assortment of Chinese stuff some very good, some?? Given their very cheap prices, I find it difficult to believe every thing is quality checked. That would add $ to the end price. I always check import tools before I put them into service.


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## chips&more (Dec 5, 2019)

The quality of the tool is one thing. The finesse of the user is another. If the two are not compatible. Then all you will get is uncertainties.


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## graham-xrf (Dec 5, 2019)

WesPete66 said:


> What the...  I grab my other digital caliper and start checking things. It was then I realized that the inside measure and the outside measure of the first caliper were different by about .004 (for equal size features).  Has anyone else found this one?


 This, I think, that is the feature that remains glossed over, unmentioned, and just invisible from any photographs in 2nd-hand purchases. If the inside measure is oversized, likely the inside measure edges were worn disproportionately. Similar for outside measure edges measuring too small. Rarely does the entire edge get equally worn, so checking on a drill shank. or any round thing, try the jaws at the tips, and also far into the jaws, and see the reading stays the same. Sometimes just checking it out closely with a magnifier lets you see the wear. No damn good if you just won it on bidding though.


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## graham-xrf (Dec 5, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> I don't like digital calipers because the stupid batteries and if I need real accuracy I use a mic. I've given up on Mititoyou calipers. I bought dial one off eBay, made in Brazil. Was no better than a cheap no name $20 dual dial caliper that has two needles on one dial. One imperial one metric and seem dead on. The Mit was dead in a month, the cheapo is still fine. Bought a used Japanese Mit, looks nice moves smooth but is off so don't use it. If I run into a good Starett or Brown & Sharpe dial for a decent price ( I usually take one of my gages with me, forgot on the Mit) maybe. But why when my cheap dials work good?


 I do agree there is no point if the cheap dials work well, provided you have some absolute way of knowing that its so. Easy enough to check using drill rod, ground stock, or other handy stuff with known size.
What happened to me was I came across low cost stuff that was definitely crap!

eBay has apparently Mitutoyo being sold (from China mainly) that brazenly proclaims itself to be the brand, but at £22.46 clearly has to be a counterfeit. The problem with medium priced, and even higher priced ones, is that they are also likely counterfeits - just expensive ones!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtV-tT8I-5I





Starret has a great reputation from the past. There are postings in this forum about modern Starret kit that are now less than complimentary. Brown and Sharpe are maybe hanging in there with the quality. The real quality is expensive! A truly genuine Mitutoyo, or a Swiss-made Compac (dial indicator), if you ever use such, you will know it!

Like you, if I find a usable cheapo that checks out, it's OK for me.  I can go through several of them for the price of  one high end kit.

I am also with you on the batteries. I have considered on of those "mechanical digital" micrometers, with a digit display that changes like a car mileage odometer.


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## graham-xrf (Dec 5, 2019)

chips&more said:


> The quality of the tool is one thing. The finesse of the user is another. If the two are not compatible. Then all you will get is uncertainties.


Yep - and if it is me, starting out with the low quality tool, and add to that my (completely compatible) low quality finesse... Umm ... yeah!


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## C-Bag (Dec 5, 2019)

I have to say it's getting harder to get decent used stuff off eBay. It's hard enough to weigh all the factors, is it in good shape, are those really the pictures of it, does this seem like a credible person, do they have good feedback, do they know about what they are selling? But now is it a fake, is this a dealer who is a scammer etc etc. I feel lucky I got most of what I wanted in years past as some of used items have not been the bargain I was hoping for.


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## Nogoingback (Dec 6, 2019)

westerner said:


> I cannot fathom the economics behind a system where this 20 pound chunk of iron and copper goes across the Pacific, has ANY BLOODY THING AT ALL DONE TO IT, and gets back across the ocean, thru several layers of wholesale/retail markups, and then into my hands with any hope of function, much less longevity, for 50 lousy bucks. They are eroding this economy from within. Rant over.




One problem with this incredibly cheap Chinese stuff is that folks have come to believe that you can get something for nothing.  We all 
like bargains, but when it's too good to be true, it's time to look elsewhere.  The $22.00 Mitutoyo copies are a perfect example: everyone
knows how much Mitu charges for their stuff so the difference between a reasonable discount and never-never land should be obvious.


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## C-Bag (Dec 6, 2019)

westerner said:


> Ok. Let me speak to the Chinese Trade Takeover as it relates to less "fussy" stuff-
> 
> A customer of mine had the need for a new starter. 1975 Ford F-250 with the 360 engine. Mind you, Ford quit producing these engines in 1976. In 2016, I fell under this truck to do the starter R&R. I found the "cheap" line O'Reilly Auto starter, with paint and tag still quite readable. I exchanged that starter for the "high" line unit from O'Reilly. It retailed for $50. It started the truck exactly ONE time. After that, the motor would spin, but the bendix would not throw. Took it back, and got my cash. I then went to CarQuest, and paid $65 for a starter remanufactured in Mexico. It is still in service.
> 
> I cannot fathom the economics behind a system where this 20 pound chunk of iron and copper goes across the Pacific, has ANY BLOODY THING AT ALL DONE TO IT, and gets back across the ocean, thru several layers of wholesale/retail markups, and then into my hands with any hope of function, much less longevity, for 50 lousy bucks. They are eroding this economy from within. Rant over.


While I totally agree, as far back as the late 70's and 80's rebuilt starters/alts even done in this country were suspect. I can only speculate but when a worker is paid by the piece and all units are flat rate he is more likely to jam junk out the door. We had a local guy we knew that we took all our stuff to and he charged by what ACTUALLY needed to be done. Most just needed the commutator cleaned up and undercut and set of brushes. It depended on the original manufacturer. 

I feel it's not only folks expecting something for nothing but also having no CLUE  what is actually involved. So yeah, it seems crazy they can make stuff so cheap but in the case of China I know people who were brought over to design factories in 90's and 2k's and they did NOT want automation, they wanted more people to be employed and the gov subsidized the factories. So it's all very complicated.


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## graham-xrf (Dec 6, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> I have to say it's getting harder to get decent used stuff off eBay.


 I am thinking it is also getting harder to get decent _*brand new*_ stuff off eBay.
Just because the price is high, does not mean that Mitutoyo "Absolute" is not a con. Aside from the obvious "too good to be true" deals, I don't know how to tell anymore.
We should be able to evict the fakes!


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