# Flood Coolant Set Up Questions



## TomS (Oct 30, 2017)

In the never ending task of trying to get the most out of my CNC mill I decided to set up Mach3 to control my flood coolant pump.  I've configured Mach3 and my PMDX-126 BoB so that the KM1 relay is operated by Pin 1.  This all seems to work fine.  When I press the "Flood" button or enter a M8 command in Mach3 Pin 1 becomes active and sends a 5VDC signal to my SSR.  I confirmed that I'm getting 3.95VDC at the SSR and the red indicator light does come on.  The problem I'm having is the pump is not starting.  I must have a mental block because I'm not understanding what's going on with the AC side of the circuit.  Whether the SSR is activated, or not, I'm reading 120VAC across the SSR AC terminals.  When I check continuity across these terminals I get nothing when the SSR is activated.

Here is a schematic of my wiring.  Like I said I'm just not seeing what I'm doing wrong.


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## Boswell (Oct 30, 2017)

First, I think that a motor will look like an inductor in the circuit and so if the SSR is OPEN and so no current is flowing you would expect to see 120VAC across the terminals. If it was closed and conductin then you would see 0VAC across the terminals and you would see 120VAC across the motor as all the voltage is dropped across the load.  So, I think (not an expert here) your SSR is not closing. Could be the Triac (or whatever it has inside) is fried or you are not getting a good trigger for some reason. You might try a resistive load instead of the motor like a lamp to see if you get a different result. You can try to short across the terminals of the SSR to verify that the pump is working properly (remove power, install short, re-apply power).


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## JimDawson (Oct 30, 2017)

Boswell said:


> First, I think that a motor will look like an inductor in the circuit and so if the SSR is OPEN and so no current is flowing you would expect to see 120VAC across the terminals. If it was closed and conductin then you would see 0VAC across the terminals and you would see 120VAC across the motor as all the voltage is dropped across the load.  So, I think (not an expert here) your SSR is not closing. Could be the Triac (or whatever it has inside) is fried or you are not getting a good trigger for some reason. You might try a resistive load instead of the motor like a lamp to see if you get a different result. You can try to short across the terminals of the SSR to verify that the pump is working properly (remove power, install short, re-apply power).



I agree


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## spumco (Oct 31, 2017)

On the PMDX-126, the K1 relay is rated at 30A at 120/240VAC.  K2 is rated at 10A.  Good schematic on page 26 of the manual when using K1.

You might try just using K1 as the only relay and leaving the SSR out.  You already have 120 or 240 powering the PMDX, so I'm guessing it's not a big wiring job to just use it directly and 30A should be fine for a pump motor (I hope!).

PS - don't forget to fuse it upstream of the relay.


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## TomS (Oct 31, 2017)

Boswell said:


> First, I think that a motor will look like an inductor in the circuit and so if the SSR is OPEN and so no current is flowing you would expect to see 120VAC across the terminals. If it was closed and conductin then you would see 0VAC across the terminals and you would see 120VAC across the motor as all the voltage is dropped across the load.  So, I think (not an expert here) your SSR is not closing. Could be the Triac (or whatever it has inside) is fried or you are not getting a good trigger for some reason. You might try a resistive load instead of the motor like a lamp to see if you get a different result. You can try to short across the terminals of the SSR to verify that the pump is working properly (remove power, install short, re-apply power).



It's a new SSR.  I guess that's guarantee it's good.  I'll do the lamp test and see what happens.  Then I'll do the short across the terminals test.

Thanks


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## TomS (Oct 31, 2017)

spumco said:


> On the PMDX-126, the K1 relay is rated at 30A at 120/240VAC.  K2 is rated at 10A.  Good schematic on page 26 of the manual when using K1.
> 
> You might try just using K1 as the only relay and leaving the SSR out.  You already have 120 or 240 powering the PMDX, so I'm guessing it's not a big wiring job to just use it directly and 30A should be fine for a pump motor (I hope!).
> 
> PS - don't forget to fuse it upstream of the relay.



I didn't realize K1 was rated at 30A until you mentioned it above.  Must have read the manual a dozen times today and didn't see the relay amperage ratings but looking at a picture of the BoB on the PMDX website it's clearly labeled 30A.  Like I said I had a mental block.

I'll look at the pump but I'm sure it doesn't pull anywhere near 30 amps.  It's on a 20A circuit and hasn't tripped the breaker yet.  The wiring change is easy.  Just route the AC wiring to K1 instead of to the SSR.  Actually this makes for a cleaner installation.

I have a few things to try.  Thanks guys.


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## jbolt (Oct 31, 2017)

Mine is wired like yours except I use the relay on the pmdx-126 to switch a 12vdc power supply for the SSR. The cheap SSR's don't seem to work well below 5-6 volts.


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## Robert LaLonde (Oct 31, 2017)

I used analog very low current draw 5V relays.  Why do you have so much less than 5V? All of my machines have solif 49.-5.1VDC on the logic circuits of the BOB.  Its pretty solid with a mediocre to decent 1A 5V regulated PS.  I've even left my old RS meter hooked to a laptop logging voltage levels while doing testing.  I do have a PMDX BOB, but its still in the box it came in.  Anyway, then for heavier loads I use the 5V low current relay to activate a heavier relay or a contacter for motors, solenoids  valves, etc.


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## TomS (Oct 31, 2017)

Bob La Londe said:


> I used analog very low current draw 5V relays.  Why do you have so much less than 5V? All of my machines have solif 49.-5.1VDC on the logic circuits of the BOB.  Its pretty solid with a mediocre to decent 1A 5V regulated PS.  I've even left my old RS meter hooked to a laptop logging voltage levels while doing testing.  I do have a PMDX BOB, but its still in the box it came in.  Anyway, then for heavier loads I use the 5V low current relay to activate a heavier relay or a contacter for motors, solenoids  valves, etc.



I haven't investigated why I'm getting 3.95vdc.  I'm out of town for a couple of days.  Could be my power supply but don't know for sure.

As I recall I had a similar problem when I first converted my machine.  IIRC I upped the power supply to 12 or 15vdc and that solved the problem.  I'll check it out when I get home on Thursday.


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## TomS (Oct 31, 2017)

jbolt said:


> Mine is wired like yours except I use the relay on the pmdx-126 to switch a 12vdc power supply for the SSR. The cheap SSR's don't seem to work well below 5-6 volts.



I think you hit on something.  I had a similar problem when I first started my conversion.  Installed a 12 or 15vdc power supply and that cured it.  Thanks for the reminder.


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## TomS (Nov 1, 2017)

It didn't go well today.  Fired up the system and no lights for K1 or K2 or pin 1 and pin 14.  Checked my configuration, thinking I didn't save my previous settings, and all is good, i.e. Output 1 and 2 enabled and set to Port 1, Pin 1/14.  Ran out of time today.  Will work on it some more in the morning.


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## TomS (Nov 2, 2017)

TomS said:


> I think you hit on something.  I had a similar problem when I first started my conversion.  Installed a 12 or 15vdc power supply and that cured it.  Thanks for the reminder.



I bench tested the relay using a 18vdc (my SSR is rated 3 to 32vdc) and I have continuity across the AC terminals.  Evidently the relay doesn't like low control voltage.  

The problem now is the BoB relays aren't energizing.  They were working a few days ago but when I fired it up yesterday afternoon I had no relays.  Everything else on the board works, e.g. I have axis motion and the spindle responds to M3 and M4 commands.  When I toggle the Flood button it blinks "blue", which is normal, but the K1 relay, and pin 1, do not energize.  Using M8 still nothing.


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## spumco (Nov 2, 2017)

Check jumpers JP1 and JP2 on the BOB.  These will have an affect on the config dip switches 7 & 8.  If you're using a 107 spindle card, you may have the BOB set to Multimode, which means relay K1 is controlled by the 107 card and not Port 1, Pin 1.

Similar situation with K2 relay.  JP2 and Config 8 control what, if anything, triggers K2.  See page 11 of the manual.

-S


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## TomS (Nov 3, 2017)

spumco said:


> Check jumpers JP1 and JP2 on the BOB.  These will have an affect on the config dip switches 7 & 8.  If you're using a 107 spindle card, you may have the BOB set to Multimode, which means relay K1 is controlled by the 107 card and not Port 1, Pin 1.
> 
> Similar situation with K2 relay.  JP2 and Config 8 control what, if anything, triggers K2.  See page 11 of the manual.
> 
> -S



I've got the jumpers set for pin 1 on JP1 and pin 14 on JP2.  If I understand the manual correctly in this mode dip switches 7 and 8 have no effect on K1 or K2.  Ouput 1 is enabled and set to Port #1 and pin #1,  Output 2 is enabled and set to Port #1 and pin #14 and I've unchecked "Disable Flood/Mist Relays" on the Spindle Setup tab.  The relays were energized a couple of days ago but for some unknown reason they're not working now.  I'm missing something.  Just don't know what it is.


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## spumco (Nov 3, 2017)

You've got it set up correctly as far as I can tell.  Next move is to contact PMDX on their forum - they're extraordinarily helpful over there.  They should be able to help you determine if it's a setup issue or dead relays.


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## TomS (Nov 3, 2017)

spumco said:


> You've got it set up correctly as far as I can tell.  Next move is to contact PMDX on their forum - they're extraordinarily helpful over there.  They should be able to help you determine if it's a setup issue or dead relays.



I posted on the PMDX forum yesterday morning under the user name LerninCNC.  No response yet.  

Spent most of the day reading most of the PMDX forum posts and the net looking for info that might help.  Tried a few things that I thought might work but still no change.  Guess I'll have to be patient until they respond.


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## spumco (Nov 3, 2017)

While you're waiting for a response - the BOB isn't in 'test' mode is it?  Manual states that that de-energizes everything.  Same thing for an E-stop.

Also, when you trigger pin1 or pin14, can you see the on-board LED's light up on the BOB?  And also see in Mach (or whatever controller you're using) diagnostics page if the pins are driving high or low?  If the screen LED's are off, then come on when you click whatever button you've assigned the M8 function to, then the controller is probably working and sending a signal to the BOB.  Once the screen LED indicates the pin is high, then check the BOB.  The Port-1 Pin-1 & Pin-14 LEDs are right next to J6 connector.  If you're getting a screen LED, and also a BOB LED, but no relay joy - then dead relays.

Another option is to try to change the K2 trigger and see if that changes anything.  Set JP2 to 'multimode' and dip switch 8 to 'closed.'  Then assign M8 function to Port-2, Pin-14 and try to trigger the K2 relay.  The BOB LED is labeled "B" next to connector J5.

After that, I'm stumped.


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## TomS (Nov 4, 2017)

spumco said:


> While you're waiting for a response - the BOB isn't in 'test' mode is it?  Manual states that that de-energizes everything.  Same thing for an E-stop.
> 
> Also, when you trigger pin1 or pin14, can you see the on-board LED's light up on the BOB?  And also see in Mach (or whatever controller you're using) diagnostics page if the pins are driving high or low?  If the screen LED's are off, then come on when you click whatever button you've assigned the M8 function to, then the controller is probably working and sending a signal to the BOB.  Once the screen LED indicates the pin is high, then check the BOB.  The Port-1 Pin-1 & Pin-14 LEDs are right next to J6 connector.  If you're getting a screen LED, and also a BOB LED, but no relay joy - then dead relays.
> 
> ...



I've never pushed the test button and the status light is not on so I don't believe I'm in test mode.  No matter what I've tried the BoB LED's do not light up nor is there indication on the Diagnostics screen.

Good idea on setting JP2 to "multimode".  Will try that this morning.  If it works with JP2 I'll set JP1 to "multimode" and key in the appropriate settings as I'd rather use K1 to start/stop the pump motor.


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## MontanaAardvark (Nov 4, 2017)

TomS said:


> I haven't investigated why I'm getting 3.95vdc.  I'm out of town for a couple of days.  Could be my power supply but don't know for sure.
> 
> As I recall I had a similar problem when I first converted my machine.  IIRC I upped the power supply to 12 or 15vdc and that solved the problem.  I'll check it out when I get home on Thursday.



Have you re-checked this?  If your 5V supply has gotten lower output, more things are going to stop working.  

If I'm reading this right, you went from the SSR not triggering the AC relay to almost (?) nothing working.


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## spumco (Nov 4, 2017)

If you've never gotten the BOB LED's working, then there's a config problem in Mach, a dead PP cable or physical pin, or the BOB is truly smoked.

If it were just the relays, the BOB LED's would light up.  And since the BOB has an onboard 120/240VAC transformer on it, there's no issue with a power supply to the BOB.  If you're using an ESS are you powering it through the BOB?


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## TomS (Nov 4, 2017)

MontanaAardvark said:


> Have you re-checked this?  If your 5V supply has gotten lower output, more things are going to stop working.
> 
> If I'm reading this right, you went from the SSR not triggering the AC relay to almost (?) nothing working.



Just to clarify I was using Port1/Pin1 to power the DC voltage side of the SSR.  What I found out was 3.95vdc was not enough to energize the SSR.  I tested the SSR with a separate 18vdc power supply and the SSR worked.  Haven't done anything with this because I've changed my approach and am going down the path of using K1 or K2 directly power up my coolant pump.


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## TomS (Nov 4, 2017)

spumco said:


> If you've never gotten the BOB LED's working, then there's a config problem in Mach, a dead PP cable or physical pin, or the BOB is truly smoked.
> 
> If it were just the relays, the BOB LED's would light up.  And since the BOB has an onboard 120/240VAC transformer on it, there's no issue with a power supply to the BOB.  If you're using an ESS are you powering it through the BOB?



My ESS has a separate regulated power supply.  I've got lights on all over the BoB just can't get K1 or K2 Led's to turn on, until I followed your suggestion.  I changed JP2 to "multimode" and configured Mach accordingly.  When I toggle the Flood button or enter an M8 command K2 energizes, the LED lights, and the Output #2 light on Mach's Diagnostic screen comes on.   This tells me the configuration is correct.  However, I get no voltage across either the NO and COM terminals or the NC and COM terminals when the relay is energized.  With my multimeter I'm getting continuity across NO and COM terminals and NC and COM terminals whether the relay is energized or not.  This doesn't make sense to me because if the contacts were stuck closed I should see voltage.  How can I check to see if there is AC voltage at the relay?


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## Boswell (Nov 4, 2017)

Tom,  Here is my suggestion on troubleshooting this:   Looking at the diagram for the PMDX-126 board section 7.2 it looks like all the PMDX-126 board is providing is relay contacts, so you will not get any voltage from any terminals unless you supply the power (as in the diagram). This does not explain your test that shows continuity across NO and COM and also NC and COM regardless of the relay state.  I assume you are testing the continuity with Nothing connected to the terminals. If not be sure to disconnect any wires connected to J10  then test Continuity. With ALL power removed from the board you should be able to see Continuity between NC and COM but NOT between NO and COM.  
I would recomend
1. Remove any wires at all from J10​2. Remove all power from the PMDX-126​3. Test continuity​3.1  Expected result: Continuity between NC and COM​3.2  Expected result: NO Continuity between NO and COM​3.3  if you do NOT get the expected results then either you continuity tester is not working or the relay/PMDX-126 has failed is some way​4. If successful the apply power to the PMDX-126 and use MACH three to Toggle the Relay while testing Continuity​4.1 Expected result: Alternating between Continuity and NO Continuity as you toggle the relay with MACH3​4.2 Expected result: Alternating between Continuity and NO Continuity as you toggle the relay with MACH3​4.3 If you do NOT get the expected results but you did in test 3, then MACH 3 is not correctly controlling the relay regardless of what the LED is telling you.  If the LED is toggling but test 4 fails then likely a PMDX-126 board problem.​5. If successful then wire up the pump per the diagram in section 7.2  Be sure to take advantage of the MOV as this will extend relay life considerably.​


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## TomS (Nov 4, 2017)

Boswell said:


> Tom,  Here is my suggestion on troubleshooting this:   Looking at the diagram for the PMDX-126 board section 7.2 it looks like all the PMDX-126 board is providing is relay contacts, so you will not get any voltage from any terminals unless you supply the power (as in the diagram). This does not explain your test that shows continuity across NO and COM and also NC and COM regardless of the relay state.  I assume you are testing the continuity with Nothing connected to the terminals. If not be sure to disconnect any wires connected to J10  then test Continuity. With ALL power removed from the board you should be able to see Continuity between NC and COM but NOT between NO and COM.
> I would recomend
> 1. Remove any wires at all from J10​2. Remove all power from the PMDX-126​3. Test continuity​3.1  Expected result: Continuity between NC and COM​3.2  Expected result: NO Continuity between NO and COM​3.3  if you do NOT get the expected results then either you continuity tester is not working or the relay/PMDX-126 has failed is some way​4. If successful the apply power to the PMDX-126 and use MACH three to Toggle the Relay while testing Continuity​4.1 Expected result: Alternating between Continuity and NO Continuity as you toggle the relay with MACH3​4.2 Expected result: Alternating between Continuity and NO Continuity as you toggle the relay with MACH3​4.3 If you do NOT get the expected results but you did in test 3, then MACH 3 is not correctly controlling the relay regardless of what the LED is telling you.  If the LED is toggling but test 4 fails then likely a PMDX-126 board problem.​5. If successful then wire up the pump per the diagram in section 7.2  Be sure to take advantage of the MOV as this will extend relay life considerably.​



Thanks Boswell.  In the last week I've read a lot about this BoB and in particular the K1 and K2 relays.  I found nothing definitive, at least in my mind, that says the AC power that is switched by these two relays is internal or external to the board.  So I've erred on the safe side and went with the AC power is internal.  Evidently I've made an incorrect assumption.  

If the AC power is external then "line/black" goes to either the NO or NC terminal then from the COM terminal to the pump "line" connection.  "Neutral/white" goes to the motor neutral connection.  Just want to make sure so I don't fry my board.

BTW - I'll do the tests you suggested before moving on to the final wiring.


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## Boswell (Nov 4, 2017)

You got it. 

I would use the Normally Open (NO) contact.

The relay is alike a switch. It goes in-line with the Black wire. So pretend you are wiring up the pump with a plug into a wall outlet. Then take the Black Wire and cut it, putting one side into the COM (Common) and the other side into the NO (Normally OPEN)  Then when you energize the relay the NO (Normally Open) contact closes and it is just like you re-connected the black wire where you "cut it"


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## spumco (Nov 5, 2017)

Tom,

I didn't get it until you mentioned _"internal or external to the board"_

Sorry, I assumed you knew that the relays were simply for switching external loads and didn't provide 110/220 to anything.  The on-board transformer is just there because (I suspect) PMDX didn't want their board under/over powered by a cheap power supply.

If you use K1, it has an internal MOV so there's only two terminals.  If you choose to use K2 - and that one should also handle your pump just fine - then use the MOV by connecting black/hot to both MOV and NO terminals using a little jumper wire.  As described in the manual, the MOV helps reduce relay contact arcing.

-S


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## TomS (Nov 5, 2017)

Boswell said:


> You got it.
> 
> I would use the Normally Open (NO) contact.
> 
> The relay is alike a switch. It goes in-line with the Black wire. So pretend you are wiring up the pump with a plug into a wall outlet. Then take the Black Wire and cut it, putting one side into the COM (Common) and the other side into the NO (Normally OPEN)  Then when you energize the relay the NO (Normally Open) contact closes and it is just like you re-connected the black wire where you "cut it"



As you can tell I'm not electrically inclined.  Thanks for simplifying it for me.


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## TomS (Nov 5, 2017)

spumco said:


> Tom,
> 
> I didn't get it until you mentioned _"internal or external to the board"_
> 
> ...



No worries.  I has assumed that because the board is being fed with either 115vac or 230vac the relays were tied into the board power source.  I'll let everyone know how it turns out.


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## TomS (Nov 5, 2017)

spumco said:


> Tom,
> 
> I didn't get it until you mentioned _"internal or external to the board"_
> 
> ...



No worries.  I has assumed that because the board is being fed with either 115vac or 230vac the relays were tied into the board power source.  I'll let everyone know how it turns out.


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## TomS (Nov 5, 2017)

Success!!!  I ran the troubleshooting tests Boswell suggested and they were all good, e.g. continuity and no continuity when expected.  Wired K2 relay and pump motor and the pump started and stopped when I toggled the "Flood" button.  Also tested it using M8 and M9 on the MDI screen.

Thanks guys for your coaching and patience.  Next step is to configure my post processor to include an M8 and M9 command when I generate a gcode file.


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## Boswell (Nov 5, 2017)

Fantastic. I love happy endings!


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## TomS (Nov 5, 2017)

Boswell said:


> Fantastic. I love happy endings!



Me too!  And I figured out how to get my CAM program to include M8 and M9 in the gcode file.  Life is good!.


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## TomS (Nov 15, 2017)

I'm posting this here because the wiring my coolant pump through the PMDX-126 relay is the last change I've made to my configuration.  Prior to wiring in my coolant pump I installed a braking resistor and ran some test code that included M3 and M4.  It worked as expected.  Now, after the coolant pump project I ran some test code that included M3 and M4 along with G4.  The spindle starts clockwise, feeds down, pauses, then feeds up without the spindle reversing.  Thinking my gcode file was the culprit, on the MDI screen I typed in a M4 S400 command.  The spindle turned clockwise.  I'm going through my configuration settings but haven't found anything yet.  This is strange.

For info I'm running a PMDX-126 BoB, a PMDX-107 spindle control board, and a Warp9 ESS.  I've also attached my test gcode file.


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## jbolt (Nov 15, 2017)

Check your vfd settings


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## TomS (Nov 15, 2017)

jbolt said:


> Check your vfd settings



I put it on my list of things to do tomorrow.


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## TomS (Nov 16, 2017)

Checked my VFD settings and everything seems to be where it needs to be.  I also went thru my Mach3 configuration as it relates to the spindle control and nothing has changed there either, except the coolant on/off settings.  I enabled output 2, port 2, pin 14.  The spindle output is enabled, step pin 16, Dir pin 14, Dir Low Active checked, Step Low Active not checked, Step Port 1, and Dir Port 1.  When I enter a M3 or M4 command pin 16 LED comes on.  Still have some more research to do.


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## jbolt (Nov 16, 2017)

Did reverse work before the coolant mods?


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## spumco (Nov 16, 2017)

1. P16-Port1 LED should come on at either M3 or M4 - good to go.
2. Check Mach3 LED status on P14-Port1 when you call M3 and M4.  Change state?  If not, skip to #4 below
3. Check 126 board LED status on pin 14 same test.  Or, if running PMDX-107 spindle board, check the 107 board DS-4 LED.  See page 14 of 107 manual.
4. Double-check 126 board relay settings.  For your setup JP2 should be "multi-mode" and Dip 8 - "Closed" (controls K2 with P14-Port2)


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## TomS (Nov 16, 2017)

jbolt said:


> Did reverse work before the coolant mods?



Yes it did.   I got tied up today doing another project but I'm going to revert back to my setup before the coolant pump change and see what happens.


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## TomS (Nov 16, 2017)

spumco said:


> 1. P16-Port1 LED should come on at either M3 or M4 - good to go.
> 2. Check Mach3 LED status on P14-Port1 when you call M3 and M4.  Change state?  If not, skip to #4 below
> 3. Check 126 board LED status on pin 14 same test.  Or, if running PMDX-107 spindle board, check the 107 board DS-4 LED.  See page 14 of 107 manual.
> 4. Double-check 126 board relay settings.  For your setup JP2 should be "multi-mode" and Dip 8 - "Closed" (controls K2 with P14-Port2)



Yes, Pin 16 LED comes on with a M3 or M4 command. I'll look at the Mach 3 pin 14 LED.  The BoB pin 14 LED does not come on with a M3 or M4 command.  I'll check out the 107 board but I don't recall seeing an LED come on with an M3 or M4.  JP2 is set to multi-mode.  Don't recall if Dip switch 8 is open or closed but will check tomorrow.

This is way too much fun.  Geez!!!


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## TomS (Nov 17, 2017)

Spent quite a bit of time today trying to figure out why the spindle won't reverse.  No luck.

In addition to the information above Here's more:

DS1 comes on with a M3 and M4 command.

DS2 comes on with a M3 or M4 command.

DS3 comes on at power up.

DS4 does not come on with a M# or M4 command.

DS5 flashes rapidly with a M3 or M4 command.

The Mach3 pin 16 or 14 lights do not come on when a M3 or M4 command is entered.  I'm assuming you are referring to the pin lights on the Diagnostic screen.

JP2 is in multi-mode.  Dip switch 8 is closed.  To verify I changed dip switch 8 to open and K2 relay does not energize.

Tried using pin 1, and 17 as Dir pins but this made no difference.  Also tried a few VFD parameter changes that didn't work out.

I rechecked my Mach3 configuration and double checked it against the PMDX-126 and 107 manuals.  And I unwired and rewired the 107 board to the VFD.  No luck here either.

I've attached a wiring diagram for the 107 to VFD for reference.   I'm thinking I have a bad spindle control board.


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## spumco (Nov 18, 2017)

_DS1 comes on with a M3 and M4 command. _- *Check SAT*

_DS2 comes on with a M3 or M4 command. _- *Check SAT*

_DS3 comes on at power up. _- *Check SAT*

_DS4 does not come on with a M# or M4 command._ *Check UNSAT*

_DS5 flashes rapidly with a M3 or M4 command. _- *Inconclusive.*  See Table 9 of PMDX-107 manual to see if flash pattern corresponds with error codes

_The Mach3 pin 16 or 14 lights do not come on when a M3 or M4 command is entered.  I'm assuming you are referring to the pin lights on the Diagnostic screen._  - Correct, was referring to the Mach3 pin status screen LED's.  *UNSAT*.

P1-P16 screen LED may not be visible as it's putting out the PWM signal and may appear odd as it's probably trying to blink at some high frequency. 

P1-P14 should come on at an M4 command and stay off at M3, as the 107 uses P1-P14 as the direction signal.  Pin low is FWD, pin high is reverse.

If Mach3 isn't sending Port 1 Pin 14 high at an M4 command, then the PMDX-126 and -107 aren't receiving a reverse direction command.  Even if nothing is connected to the computer or ESS, Mach3 should still report via the screen LED's that P1-P14 is 'high' when M4 is commanded.

_JP2 is in multi-mode.  Dip switch 8 is closed.  To verify I changed dip switch 8 to open and K2 relay does not energize._ - Check SAT

_I'm thinking I have a bad spindle control board._ - not sure about that yet.

TESTS:
1. Next step is to figure out why (or verify that) Mach3 isn't sending P1-P14 high at M4.  I don't know enough about the ESS to determine if that could interfere with the signal.  I would put a multi-meter in the ribbon cable terminal (use a needle in the terminal) to the PMDX-126 and check for 0VDC between P1-P14 and ground.  Then call M4 and see if you get voltage at that pin.

1a. Voltage = problem in PMDX-126, 107, or the VFD (electrical, wiring, or programming).  Skip to Test 2.
1b. No voltage = problem with ribbon cable or ESS/126 terminals, ESS (electrical or plugin), or Mach3 configuration.  Skip to Test 4.

2. If voltage is present at Test 1 (above), then check PMDX-126 P1-P14 LED adjacent to connector J6 (next to big transformer).  Command M4 and see if that LED lights up.

2a. P1-P14 LED lights up = Problem with 107, 126 to 107 cable or connectors. Skip to Test 3.

2b. P1-P14 LED doesn't light up = _May _be problem with 126.  Not sure if using the 107 supersedes or overrides this LED, manual is not clear if this output LED should light up when a 107 is connected.  

3. P1-P14 LED lights up, but 107 LED DS4 does not = Problem with PMDX-107 connector, ribbon cable, dip switches, or dead 107 board.

3a. If no LED, then check dip switches 1-3 on 107, wiring connections, and ribbon cable.  Unfortunately, the J18 connector pin-out is proprietary and you'l need to get in touch with PMDX for further trouble-shooting if a continuity check of the cable is SAT and the dip switches are set properly.

4. Something other than 126 or 107...
4a. Check ribbon cable continuity, check for bent pins.
4b. Verify ESS plugin.  Re-install if necessary.  Check configuration.  Voltage test at ESS P1-P14 output pin.
4c. Verify Mach3 config again.  I know...again...

My suspicion is that there's a Mach3 or ESS configuration problem and not a hardware issue (or not exclusively a hardware issue) - you should have gotten the P1-P14 screen LED to come on even if nothing is connected to the computer.

-S


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## TomS (Nov 18, 2017)

spumco said:


> _DS1 comes on with a M3 and M4 command. _- *Check SAT*
> 
> _DS2 comes on with a M3 or M4 command. _- *Check SAT*
> 
> ...



Wow!  Thanks for your comprehensive test procedure.  I'm going to go your route but first I'm going to try one more thing.  I spent several hours searching the net for any information on a similar situation.  Came up empty handed until late last night I came across an archive file from another machining forum.  Buried in about 500 files was a thread that walked through almost exactly the same problem I'm having.  There wasn't much detail given (it appears that the problem was discussed and resolved over the phone) but the conclusion was the end user had a corrupt Mach3 configuration file.  Reloading Mach solved the M3/M4 problem.  I'll report back.


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## spumco (Nov 18, 2017)

Dying to find out the deal, and I'm hoping it's a config problem.  You really didn't change anything on any of the board config switches other than enabling K2.

And you didn't report a "saw a pretty blue spark" event, so I'm crossing my fingers all the electrical pixies are still where they're supposed to be.


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## TomS (Nov 19, 2017)

spumco said:


> Dying to find out the deal, and I'm hoping it's a config problem.  You really didn't change anything on any of the board config switches other than enabling K2.
> 
> And you didn't report a "saw a pretty blue spark" event, so I'm crossing my fingers all the electrical pixies are still where they're supposed to be.




Yeah, I'm anxious too.  I also posted on the PMDX forum.  Received some feedback with a few things to try.  I got tied up yesterday with "other" things.  Today I plan on finishing the configuration.


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## TomS (Nov 19, 2017)

Not much to report.  The lack of CCW rotation is still there.  This is what I did today.

1.  Finished configuring Mach3.  I purposely didn't save any of my configuration so I wouldn't reload a bad configuration.  All components work as they should, except the spindle.

2.  Checked continuity from the ESS Pin 14 through the ribbon cable and to Port 1 Pin 14 on the 126 board.  All good.

3.  Entered a M4 command and checked voltage from the ESS Port 1 Pin 14 to J6 Pin 14.  Had 4.8vdc from the ESS to Port 1 Pin 14 ribbon cable connector.  Measured 0vdc at J6 Pin 14 terminal with M3 command.  This is good!

4.  Removed the 107 board from the ESS, checked to ribbon cable connectors and headers.

5.  No matter what I've done Pin 14 LED or DS4 LED does not turn on.

6.  Changed 107 dip switches 3 and 4 from off to on.  No change.

My next test is to determine if the REV signal is getting from the 107 board to the VFD.


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## spumco (Nov 20, 2017)

Sorry - It's been a while since I used Mach3 and I forgot there isn't a dedicated pin status LED for the spindle.  Most of the other outputs have a PIN LED, but it appears that I may have given you bunk info based on my dodgy memory of Mach3.  I'm using UCCNC and it has a dedicated LED for every port & pin.

Not that it matters - you've proven that Mach3 and the ESS are doing their thing appropriately.

Another thing to test, after you've checked the 107 output (assuming it's outputting properly), is the VFD itself.  It usually sucks changing parameters back and forth, but you might try seeing if you can get it to reverse direction using the local VFD panel - just to confirm the VFD isn't acting up.


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## TomS (Nov 20, 2017)

spumco said:


> Sorry - It's been a while since I used Mach3 and I forgot there isn't a dedicated pin status LED for the spindle.  Most of the other outputs have a PIN LED, but it appears that I may have given you bunk info based on my dodgy memory of Mach3.  I'm using UCCNC and it has a dedicated LED for every port & pin.
> 
> Not that it matters - you've proven that Mach3 and the ESS are doing their thing appropriately.
> 
> Another thing to test, after you've checked the 107 output (assuming it's outputting properly), is the VFD itself.  It usually sucks changing parameters back and forth, but you might try seeing if you can get it to reverse direction using the local VFD panel - just to confirm the VFD isn't acting up.



I did some further testing this morning, and to your suggestion about 107 outputs.  Here's what I came up with (some data may have changed from what I previously reported).

1.  In M3 mode (P1P16 LED on).  Measured .22vdc at Pin 14, 1.22vdc at Pin 16, .11vdc at Pin 1, and 0vdc at Pin 17.  In M4 mode (P1Pin16 LED on).  Measured .23vdc at Pin 14, 1.22vdc at Pin16, .11vdc at Pin 1, and 0vdc at Pin 17.

2.  In M3 mode measuring between 107 board and Agnd terminal.  Measured 0 vdc at REV, measured 23.6vdc at FWD, measured 23.7vdc at COM, and measured 2.9vdc across Aout and Agnd.  In M4 mode measured 0vdc at REV, 24.0vdc at FWD, 24.1vdc at COM, and .29 across Aout and Agnd.

3.  Checked voltage at the VFD terminals.  In M3 mode measured P24 at 23.6vdc, PLC at 0vdc, L at 0vdc, 1 at 23.6 vdc, 2 at 0vdc, and O at 0vdc.  In M4 mode measured 23.8vdc at P25, 0vdc at PLC, 0vdc at L, 23.7 at 1, 0vdc at 2, and 2.9vdc at O.

What I see is the REV signal is not getting to the 107 board.  

As I'm sitting here writing this I realized I can reverse the FWD and REV leads at the VFD and if the spindle runs in  reverse then that tells me it's not the VFD.  I sure wish the PMDX guys would respond with there input.  I'm sure they would zero in on the problem so we don't have to continue down this testing path, and I can get my mill running.

Again, thanks for your help.


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## TomS (Nov 20, 2017)

I swapped the FWD and REV signal wires from the 107 board to the VFD.  Keyed in a M3 command and the spindle turned CCW.  Same with a M4 command.  The VFD configuration is good.  It's now either the 126 or 107 boards, or both.


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## spumco (Nov 20, 2017)

While you're waiting for PMDX to get on the ball, you could try unplugging the 107 board from the 126.  Then see if you get the LED and/or 5VDC at P1-P14 when you toggle M3/M4.


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## TomS (Nov 20, 2017)

spumco said:


> While you're waiting for PMDX to get on the ball, you could try unplugging the 107 board from the 126.  Then see if you get the LED and/or 5VDC at P1-P14 when you toggle M3/M4.



Good idea.  I'll give it a shot in the morning.


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## TomS (Nov 21, 2017)

spumco said:


> While you're waiting for PMDX to get on the ball, you could try unplugging the 107 board from the 126.  Then see if you get the LED and/or 5VDC at P1-P14 when you toggle M3/M4.



Unplugged the 107.  No change.  P1 P16 LED comes on whether it's a M3 or M4 command.  I'm measuring voltage across the Gnd terminal and P16 terminal on J6.  I'm getting about 1vdc.  Shouldn't I see 5vdc?  The FWD signal is getting to the 107 board because I'm seeing 24vdc between the 107 and VFD.


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## spumco (Nov 22, 2017)

Not if you have P1-P16 set to PWM output.  You could change your spindle speed and see if the voltage goes up or down.

Another test to narrow it down  - 

1. Leave the 107 unplugged.
2. Uncheck "disable spindle relays"
3. Set CW to Output 1
4. Set CCW to Output 2
5. Change Output 1 to P1-P16
6. Change Output 2 to P1-P14
7. Change Spindle on Motor tab/window  - enable the spindle, but clear out the step/dir pins.
7. Toggle M3/M4 and you should get the two LED's on the 126 to light up.

This should emulate using simple on/off relays to turn the spindle on and off with no speed control.  The point of this test is to try to force, in some way, P1-P14 to go high.  Trying to check if you have a blown 126 board.


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## TomS (Nov 22, 2017)

spumco said:


> Not if you have P1-P16 set to PWM output.  You could change your spindle speed and see if the voltage goes up or down.
> 
> Another test to narrow it down  -
> 
> ...



Got it.  Another test tomorrow.


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## TomS (Nov 22, 2017)

spumco said:


> Not if you have P1-P16 set to PWM output.  You could change your spindle speed and see if the voltage goes up or down.
> 
> Another test to narrow it down  -
> 
> ...



Ran the test as you suggested.  P16 LED lights up but no Pin 14 LED.  I think the Pin 14 relay is toast.  Thinking back on the K2 (P1P14) relay configuration issues I had I might have done something.  Just don't know what I did.

While I was reading through the PMDX-126 manual, for the 20th time, I read where J6 and J5 are the same types of outputs.  Wow!  Did some more reading and thought maybe this is a work around.  Changed my configuration to use Port 2 Pins 14 and 16 and ran the test above.  With a M3 command J5 "C" LED lights up and a M4 command lights up the J5 "B" and "C" lights are on.  Maybe I'm on to something.  Next hurdle to overcome is getting the 126 board to pass these signals to the 107 board.  Guess I'll be reading the manual for the 21st time.  LOL


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## TomS (Dec 1, 2017)

I was able to make contact with PMDX yesterday.  They suggested a few more tests and all had the same results: the control signal is not getting to P1 P14.  PMDX said send the BoB back and they would either fix it or replace it.  I'm happy with that.


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## spumco (Dec 1, 2017)

Whew.  Good to hear you have a solution, and that PMDX is going to make it right.


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## TomS (Dec 8, 2017)

Update - Got the diagnosis from PMDX yesterday.  According to PMDX the buffer chip that drives the P1 Pin14 signal has a dead output on that signal.  They say this is unusual for a single signal on a chip to die, but it does happen.  So all that testing we did and subsequent conclusions we made have been confirmed by the manufacturer.  We were fighting a dead BoB.

The board is in the mail and should be arriving in a day or two.  Hopefully I'll have my mill up and running early next week.


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## MontanaAardvark (Dec 8, 2017)

TomS said:


> Update - Got the diagnosis from PMDX yesterday.  According to PMDX the buffer chip that drives the P1 Pin14 signal has a dead output on that signal.  They say this is unusual for a single signal on a chip to die, but it does happen.  So all that testing we did and subsequent conclusions we made have been confirmed by the manufacturer.  We were fighting a dead BoB.
> 
> The board is in the mail and should be arriving in a day or two.  Hopefully I'll have my mill up and running early next week.



Back when I was working for a living, one output on a chip out of many being bad was the most common failure.  They know their product better than I do, but that's my experience.


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## TomS (Dec 8, 2017)

MontanaAardvark said:


> Back when I was working for a living, one output on a chip out of many being bad was the most common failure.  They know their product better than I do, but that's my experience.



Thanks for your input.  I'm taking them at their word as my knowledge of electronic components is nil, at best.  As long as the board works when I get it back I'll be happy.  My mill has been down for about a month and the projects are stacking up.


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## TomS (Dec 14, 2017)

Finally got some shop time today and installed the repaired BoB.  Fired up the mill and it now works as it should.  M3 and M4 work as expected.  Here's a short video showing the spindle rotating CW then reversing.  Looks like I need to look at reducing the lag between the spindle reversing and the Z retracting.


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## spumco (Dec 14, 2017)

How's the cycle coded?  I'm just asking to see if the lag is in the code or in your VFD settings.  I seem to remember you talking about a braking resistor - that should let you stop and reverse on a dime.

Good to hear you're up and running, by the way!


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## TomS (Dec 15, 2017)

spumco said:


> How's the cycle coded?  I'm just asking to see if the lag is in the code or in your VFD settings.  I seem to remember you talking about a braking resistor - that should let you stop and reverse on a dime.
> 
> Good to hear you're up and running, by the way!



The gcode file is attached.  I reduced the dwell from .5 second to .25.  I can tighten up the accel and decel  VFD settings and see how that works out.  I haven't done any CNC power tapping so I'm being extra cautious.  Don't want to break taps and ruin my only piece of material.

Edit:  Yes, I have a braking resistor.


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## Boswell (Dec 15, 2017)

I did not realize that it was possible to TAP using Mach3.  The z-axis is tightly controlled but spindle speed, not so much. You don't have Acceleration control for instance on the Spindle speed. Looking forward to how this works out.


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## TomS (Dec 15, 2017)

Boswell said:


> I did not realize that it was possible to TAP using Mach3.  The z-axis is tightly controlled but spindle speed, not so much. You don't have Acceleration control for instance on the Spindle speed. Looking forward to how this works out.



I guess I'm going to find out.  The floating tap holder supposedly takes up the variances in spindle speed vs. feed rate.  Tormach has a white paper that discusses a few tricks on using a floating tap holder (attached).  

Reading through the list of parameter settings for my VFD (Hitachi WJ200) it appears that I do have control of spindle speed acceleration and deceleration.  I'll play with these settings and see how it works out.


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## Boswell (Dec 15, 2017)

It would be great to be able to tap on the Mill reliably. Good Luck !


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## spumco (Dec 15, 2017)

TomS said:


> I guess I'm going to find out.  The floating tap holder supposedly takes up the variances in spindle speed vs. feed rate.  Tormach has a white paper that discusses a few tricks on using a floating tap holder (attached).
> 
> Reading through the list of parameter settings for my VFD (Hitachi WJ200) it appears that I do have control of spindle speed acceleration and deceleration.  I'll play with these settings and see how it works out.



Tom,

I've attached my parameters for my WJ200-SF15.  It's working rather well for me.  Please keep in mind that I have a different motor (2HP Marathon vector duty with an encoder and a belt drive).  The accel/decel work great - it's fairly aggressive but doesn't trip the breaker.

Don't copy everything, but these settings are working for a similar setup.


PS - I'm using UCCNC, so I can do rigid peck tapping using the motor encoder and a spindle index.  Way, way nice.  Not going back to Mach3.

-Spumco


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## TomS (Dec 16, 2017)

spumco said:


> Tom,
> 
> I've attached my parameters for my WJ200-SF15.  It's working rather well for me.  Please keep in mind that I have a different motor (2HP Marathon vector duty with an encoder and a belt drive).  The accel/decel work great - it's fairly aggressive but doesn't trip the breaker.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info.  I have to look but IIRC my accel and decel settings are 1.5 seconds.  Our setups are similar.  I also have a 2 HP Marathon Black Max vector duty motor and belt drive.  No encoder though.


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## TomS (Dec 28, 2017)

Finally had some time in the shop today.  The lag at Z retract was due to the CCW Spindle Spin Up setting in Mach3.  Changed it from 1 second to zero and no lag now.  Here is a link to my media gallery showing the floating tap holder tapping six 1/4-20 holes in aluminum.  http://www.hobby-machinist.com/gallery/albums/users/toms.24891/.  I still need to fine tune the feedrate to reduce the amount of tension on the retract cycle but overall I'm pleased with the results.


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## Boswell (Dec 29, 2017)

That looks great. I guess this is hand coded


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## TomS (Dec 29, 2017)

Boswell said:


> That looks great. I guess this is hand coded



Today I tapped 135 1/4-20 holes in about 22 minutes.  Hand coding this would have taken way too long and tested my patience.  I use CamBam for generating gcode.  With the help of another CamBam user I used a custom script he provided.  I tweaked it a bit to suit my mill characteristics then generated the gcode file. 

Here'a screen shot of a test piece I created and the script.  I removed the dwell before the M4 command and changed the feedrate to suit my spindle RPM and thread pitch.


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## Boswell (Dec 30, 2017)

TomS said:


> Here'a screen shot of a test piece I created and the script.



I used CamBam originally but eventually moved to BobCad.   The sub-routine that you show above is what I was thinking would have to be custom. Looks very simple. 

I can't imagine tapping 135 1/4-20 holes  by hand or even with a hand drill. 

Thanks for sharing this.


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## spumco (Dec 30, 2017)

Sweet.

I rigid tap, so I don't have a floating holder.  Was just thinking you could put a little bit of stiff clay in the bottom of a few holes and then tap them.  Check hole top to the top of the clay and that'll give you a ballpark on the over-run before the spindle reverses.  I'm betting you could get pretty close to the bottom of a blind hole once you tested a few with some clay.


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## TomS (Dec 30, 2017)

spumco said:


> Sweet.
> 
> I rigid tap, so I don't have a floating holder.  Was just thinking you could put a little bit of stiff clay in the bottom of a few holes and then tap them.  Check hole top to the top of the clay and that'll give you a ballpark on the over-run before the spindle reverses.  I'm betting you could get pretty close to the bottom of a blind hole once you tested a few with some clay.



Thanks for the tip.  Hadn't thought about blind hole tapping yet.


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## MontanaAardvark (Jan 1, 2018)

TomS said:


> Finally had some time in the shop today.  The lag at Z retract was due to the CCW Spindle Spin Up setting in Mach3.  Changed it from 1 second to zero and no lag now.  Here is a link to my media gallery showing the floating tap holder tapping six 1/4-20 holes in aluminum.  http://www.hobby-machinist.com/gallery/albums/users/toms.24891/.  I still need to fine tune the feedrate to reduce the amount of tension on the retract cycle but overall I'm pleased with the results.



I missed that this had morphed from a conversation on the flood coolant and breakout board problems into CNC tapping.  I just tapped four 10-32 holes in my tooling plate and while I did more than you did in that video, each hole took longer than the six holes in that video.  

How much do those tapping heads go for?  I'm still working on changing to a spindle motor I can control from Mach3 (or whatever) - at least in concept.  Adding tapping capability would be extremely cool.


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## TomS (Jan 1, 2018)

Yeah, this thread went off in a couple of directions.  Sorry about that.  Started out as a BoB relay wiring issue, then moved into a M3/M4 problem that raised it's ugly head when I tried to use my floating tap holder.  Fixed that problem then after going through all of this I was finally able to test out my tap holder.

OK.  Now to answer your question.  My floating tap holder is a ER20 sold by Shars and bought on eBay.  As I recall I paid $111 delivered to my door.  It's actually a nice piece of tooling; ground on all surfaces and the tension/compression action is silky smooth.  It takes a little adjusting to get the feedrate and spindle RPM to match up.  In the video I had the feedrate set at 95% of the calculated feedrate per Tormach's recommendation.  As you can see the tap was being pulled out of the hole.  Not a big deal but it does distort the thread lead in somewhat.  When I tapped the 136 holes I set the feedrate at 20 IPM, which is the calculated feedrate.  I had minimal tap pull out and the thread was not distorted.  

BTW - I'm using a PMDX BoB and spindle control card and a ethernet smoothstepper to control my spindle.  Got this idea from jbolt.


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## MontanaAardvark (Jan 1, 2018)

Having the reversible spindle has to be a big part of it.  I noticed the spring action on the tap holder, but didn't know it wasn't intended.  

Replacing the spindle motor is on my ToDo list for this year.  Haven't spent the time looking for a BLDC motor, but I'd like to do something around 1-1/2 HP.  1 HP would be adequate.  I'm pretty sure I'll need to replace my breakout board - I have a simple CNC4PC board and I don't believe it has any capabilities for motor control.


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## spumco (Jan 2, 2018)

MontanaAardvark said:


> I'm pretty sure I'll need to replace my breakout board - I have a simple CNC4PC board and I don't believe it has any capabilities for motor control.



I have an unused C23 board from CNC4PC that has on-board spindle control.  It's NIB - just didn't use it as I needed different input voltage capabilities for my spindle encoder so I went with a different BOB.  PM me if you want to upgrade your BOB.

I also have a "3HP" BLDC motor available much like the 'kits' sold through Automation Technologies.  You'd need to find a driver for it but it was working fine when I upgraded to an induction motor.  The reason I pulled it was the driver - which I still have - was junk, and the BLDC drivers that are available now weren't really proven a few years ago.

It's 5k RPM, and it's probably about 2 or 2.5HP once you discount the marketing lies.


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## TomS (Jan 2, 2018)

MontanaAardvark said:


> Having the reversible spindle has to be a big part of it.  I noticed the spring action on the tap holder, but didn't know it wasn't intended.
> 
> Replacing the spindle motor is on my ToDo list for this year.  Haven't spent the time looking for a BLDC motor, but I'd like to do something around 1-1/2 HP.  1 HP would be adequate.  I'm pretty sure I'll need to replace my breakout board - I have a simple CNC4PC board and I don't believe it has any capabilities for motor control.



The spring action is intentional.  It's purpose is to compensate for differences in spindle RPM vs. feedrate.  If the difference is too great you get what shows in the video.  It's not the ideal tapping method.  I have to believe rigid tapping is the ideal method but the floating tap holder with a little finessing is a satisfactory alternative.


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## spumco (Jan 2, 2018)

TomS said:


> I have to believe rigid tapping is the ideal method but the floating tap holder with a little finessing is a satisfactory alternative.



I don't know this from personal experience, but I believe the _ideal _method is to use rigid tapping with a tension-only holder.  This permits peck-tapping as the thread starts at the same point every time, but also permits a slight amount of variation between the thread lead and spindle synchronization on retract.  No over-run on entry so you can tap to within a few 'thou of a blind hole every time in all materials.

It's reported in a few places online that this method creates more accurate threads and the taps last longer.

If someone wants to send me a tension holder I'd be willing to give it a go...


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## TomS (Jan 2, 2018)

spumco said:


> I don't know this from personal experience, but I believe the _ideal _method is to use rigid tapping with a tension-only holder.  This permits peck-tapping as the thread starts at the same point every time, but also permits a slight amount of variation between the thread lead and spindle synchronization on retract.  No over-run on entry so you can tap to within a few 'thou of a blind hole every time in all materials.
> 
> It's reported in a few places online that this method creates more accurate threads and the taps last longer.
> 
> If someone wants to send me a tension holder I'd be willing to give it a go...



I stand corrected.


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## spumco (Jan 2, 2018)

TomS said:


> I stand corrected.



My comment was mostly just me being obnoxious 

I think you'll be just fine with your current setup.  You clearly didn't have any problems turning that aluminum to Swiss cheese.

The only time I've needed rigid tapping vs a tension/compression setup is with big taps.  My spindle just doesn't have enough guts at 400RPM to push a 1/2" tap 1" deep in mild steel in one shot.  Peck tapping at .250" per peck with a spiral flute was the only way I could get all the way down the hole.

If I had more horsepower down low, or drilled a bigger starter hole, or used a coated tap at higher speed it would have been fine.


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## TomS (Jan 2, 2018)

spumco said:


> My comment was mostly just me being obnoxious
> 
> I think you'll be just fine with your current setup.  You clearly didn't have any problems turning that aluminum to Swiss cheese.
> 
> ...



My comment was mostly just me trying to be funny.  Your response was informative and appreciated as they all are.  My apologies.


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## spumco (Jan 2, 2018)

No need to apologize.  I am the opposite of a special snowflake; more like rhino hide.

Now, if we're done with that, how about sticking a fork in this thread?  Seriously, I'm having fits trying to get Fusion360 to do my bidding and I need some help.  I'll go start a new thread and we can drive it off on a tanget...


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