# Do I need a swivel base for a mill vise?



## woodchucker (Jun 2, 2017)

I am only a couple of months in on using my new to me mill. I picked up an older bridgeport vise.
It did not have a swivel base.  At first I said I don't need it. It will lead to less rigidity. But now, I am wondering how I'll make angled cuts. The vise is bigger than my table.
How often do you use your swivel?
Can you do it w/o the swivel still in the vise?  I can't forsee blocking it up easily.
Sure I could clamp to the table... 
just looking for ways to make a decision.


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## Glenn Brooks (Jun 2, 2017)

Iam in the same boat.  Have a swivel base - don't use it unless I need to set a specific angle for a cut.  Then it comes back off the table, and I just use the solid upper part of the vise for day to day work holding.  I guess the loss in rigidity (and height!) is just a necessary evil.  

Glenn


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## cathead (Jun 2, 2017)

It all boils down to versatility.  Sooner or later you will need one.  Rigidity hasn't  been a problem for me so it is on the mill 
most of the time in case I need an angle cut.  It's really handy for thin material circle cutting with a center pin.  It's all in 
the operations you do.


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## benmychree (Jun 2, 2017)

There should be no loss in rigidity with a swivel base; height MAY be an issue on benchtop mills, but not most others.


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## Buffalo20 (Jun 2, 2017)

I use the swivel base on the mill vise very often, most of the time its just left under the vise (too lazy to remove it)


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## Cobra (Jun 2, 2017)

As said, there should not be any rigidity change with the swivel base but on my mill I didn't want to loose the height space.
I put it on when needed and then go back to the fixed vise.
Jim


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## RJSakowski (Jun 2, 2017)

A swivel base came with my vise and I have never used it.  (Disclaimer: my Tormach CNC makes it redundant.)  It does take up valuable vertical work space and will be less rigid than mounting the vise to the table.  If I didn't have the CNC mill, I would probably only use it as needed, removing it for other setups.  

However, I keep a 12" RT permanently mounted on my old mill drill, largely because it is a pain, literally, to move it in and off the table.


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## Bob Korves (Jun 2, 2017)

A swivel vise is not necessary to make angled cuts.  A vise is not necessary to hold work.  Much work can be attached directly to the table.  Think outside the vise box...


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## joshua43214 (Jun 2, 2017)

Get a cheap, but decent Chinese swivel vise for the rare times you need it.
Just wait for a sale to come around, should not set you back more than $100.00 or so.
If you live in city, good chance you can get one from MSC during a sale, and pick it up to save the shipping.


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## Groundhog (Jun 2, 2017)

Like RJ, I have a CNC mill so as he said ...





> "A swivel base came with my vise and I have never used it.  If I didn't have the CNC mill, I would probably only use it as needed, removing it for other setups.


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## chips&more (Jun 2, 2017)

And the definitive answer is? There ain’t one! From the responses, looks like a mixed bag. Soooo, just get the base and call it a day. Can’t be a toolaholic and not have a swivel base!


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## RJSakowski (Jun 2, 2017)

For occasional use, you can clamp your milling vise to the table and use a protractor or sine bar to align it.  It is not as convenient but for once in a blue moon, it will do the job.  Using a sine bar will be far more accurate than using the protractor on a swivel base.  A .0005" test indicator can get you to within 20 seconds of arc.


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## kd4gij (Jun 2, 2017)

What does need have to do with it. My swivel base just looks cool sitting on the shelf. Besides I can always say " Yep I have one"


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## woodchucker (Jun 2, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> A swivel vise is not necessary to make angled cuts.  A vise is not necessary to hold work.  Much work can be attached directly to the table.  Think outside the vise box...



yep, agreed, That's my backup plan.  I don't think you can always rely on hold down clamps though. Sometimes they get in the way.. it depends.
I'm leaning toward pulling the trigger on a base that would fit my 5" bridgeport vise.


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## woodchucker (Jun 2, 2017)

benmychree said:


> There should be no loss in rigidity with a swivel base; height MAY be an issue on benchtop mills, but not most others.



not a benchtop, its a clausing 8520.. so I have room. As a matter of fact, I'm often amazed that most of my work is with the table pretty close up to the quill. I guess I haven't done anything big yet.


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## woodchucker (Jun 2, 2017)

cathead said:


> It all boils down to versatility.  Sooner or later you will need one.  Rigidity hasn't  been a problem for me so it is on the mill
> most of the time in case I need an angle cut.  It's really handy for thin material circle cutting with a center pin.  It's all in
> the operations you do.



How do you cut with a center pin. I know in woodworking and a router. But not with a mill. Are you saying you move the material w/o it being locked down, or you clamp it in the vise, and use the centerpin on the swivel base as your center, and rotate the vise?


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## kd4gij (Jun 2, 2017)

Get a rotary table. More versatile


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## Bob Korves (Jun 2, 2017)

woochucker said:


> How do you cut with a center pin. I know in woodworking and a router. But not with a mill. Are you saying you move the material w/o it being locked down, or you clamp it in the vise, and use the centerpin on the swivel base as your center, and rotate the vise?


Jeff, it is not at all clear what you are specifically trying to do, so that makes it difficult to give specific suggestions.


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## woodchucker (Jun 2, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> Jeff, it is not at all clear what you are specifically trying to do, so that makes it difficult to give specific suggestions.


I was really curious about what cathead had said, not what I was doing. Clearly he has a way of doing something that I would like to learn about.


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## cathead (Jun 3, 2017)

woochucker said:


> How do you cut with a center pin. I know in woodworking and a router. But not with a mill. Are you saying you move the material w/o it being locked down, or you clamp it in the vise, and use the centerpin on the swivel base as your center, and rotate the vise?



Jeff,

I built a little indexing jig from wood that clamps in the vise with repeatability.  The pin is located at the center of the
axis of rotation and used to have it centered if that is needed.  Clamp down the workpiece or many times I have clamped the
work with wood screws.  Then loosen the bolts on the vice so it will rotate and cut with an end mill.  I used this method to make
discs or rings of various sizes.  I have a rotary table as well but for small and simple jobs, it works just fine.  The metal strip with
the two screws makes the jig indexable to center the pin every time.  The screws go into a short
piece of 2x6 clamped in the vise and the 2x6 is also affixed to the top plate.



I took a photo for you since a picture is worth a thousand words they say.    


View media item 96743


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## T Bredehoft (Jun 3, 2017)

It never occurred to me that one would want to use the swivel base to make a curved cut. That seems dangerous beyond belief. Until I have proved to myself that the numbers on a swivel bezel represent actual angles (put the stock in the vice, turn it to 47º, mount a  sine bar and tram the work to verify that it is 47º) I would not trust the numbers within probably 5. I can clamp my vice itself on the table with that accuracy using angles or protractors.


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## Bob Korves (Jun 3, 2017)

I have never wished for a swivel base for my Bridgeport 6" vise.  If I had one, it would live in a dark corner of the shop, just in case...  For the few rare times a swivel base is actually useful, rigidity and headroom are given up on every project in between.  By the time I could have the swivel base installed and set up for a job, the job would already be done using other more rigid and more accurate methods.  For my smaller bench vise on the workbench, I would not be without a swivel base, I use it constantly.  For making arced cuts and slots, use a rotary table, not a swivel base!

Edit:  A swivel base also makes the vise heavier, and vises are heavy enough already.  I remove and replace my vise often for table access and for installing other workholding tooling, and would not appreciate the additional weight.


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## woodchucker (Jun 3, 2017)

cathead said:


> Jeff,
> 
> I built a little indexing jig from wood that clamps in the vise with repeatability. The pin is located at the center of the
> axis of rotation and used to have it centered if that is needed. Clamp down the workpiece or many times I have clamped the
> ...



Got it. A poor mans rotary table. For the occasional use I see the value in that. If I had to do it a lot I would move to a rotary table.


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## woodchucker (Jun 3, 2017)

T Bredehoft said:


> It never occurred to me that one would want to use the swivel base to make a curved cut. That seems dangerous beyond belief. Until I have proved to myself that the numbers on a swivel bezel represent actual angles (put the stock in the vice, turn it to 47º, mount a  sine bar and tram the work to verify that it is 47º) I would not trust the numbers within probably 5. I can clamp my vice itself on the table with that accuracy using angles or protractors.



But if you used layout lines and locked the vise down repeatedly and just used it to remove the major waste. Then remove the waste between, you could actually do it. Just a lot more work 

My question is just about cutting an angle across a work piece. I also see an advantage of the swivel. I can't see under my vise to the dial. I had to add 2 new marks for zeroing the dial off about 30 degrees to be able to zero to something. This would give me a better view of the dial and give me a little more  room under. I wouldn't need that much if I had a DRO.. but one step at a time. Learn to use the dials accurately.


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## cathead (Jun 3, 2017)

Just for the record, when using the rotating base with the vise, the material used mostly was thin aluminum .032 (2024T3)
and you have to feed the cutting manually by rotating the swivel base.  This must be done somewhat carefully with thin 
material but it doesn't seem to grab significantly.  Thicker metal sheets is somewhat easier as one can just apply an even 
pressure on the vise to rotate it.  Do this at your own comfort level.  If reasonable care is used, it works pretty well.    

Also, the work needs to be fairly well affixed to the wood plate to do a nice job.


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## westsailpat (Jun 3, 2017)

For me when I had my shop the swivel base on my Bridgeport meant speed doing set ups not to mention just plain old indicating the vice in . Back in the day a lot of my jobs were aircraft air frame parts with not one flat or square edge , I made a tooling plate that clamped in the vice I could then bolt down the part on the plate and produce any angle required . . But that was production and I was trying to make money ,  because most of us here are hobby machinist I think a swivel base would be nice but not a requirement .


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## FLguy (Jun 3, 2017)

I'm very happy with my CNC vise. Ground all sides. With a Starrett protractor it sets to any angle I need.


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## rock_breaker (Jun 4, 2017)

I have a 4" swivel based vise on my mill/drill, the extra height has not been a problem. I seldom use the swivel but was happy it was there a couple of times, no experience with a sine bar and clamps usually get in the way. Most of my work is just straight lines and grooves. Haven't noticed any problems with rigidity nor head space, I do have to run my work to one side to change some tools but that is due to avoid retraming when raising the rotary head on the round column mill. Maybe that is a height problem! The 4" vise is  lighter than my 6" but I prefer it due to having additional space on the table.  
As has been said earlier it is a convenience when needed and in extremely precise work other angle setting procedures are required.
Have a good day
Ray


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## British Steel (Jun 4, 2017)

Hi Jeff,
I have a small swivel vice, useful on small work, anything big I plan in advance to bolt / clamp to the table* and "indicate the protractor"; on the new (to me) mill I'll probably mount the work square to the X axis and then swivel the table and cut in Y... For arcs I have a 6" rotary table close by to bolt either direct to the table or on a sturdy angle plate as a (manual) 4th axis. No tailstock for that yet, but when I make/buy one it'll also be alignable (is that a word?) on the mill table with the lathe spindle for work outside my lathe's 30" between-centres capability - although there'll still be a gap in the range from 30" to about 48" and I'll have to make things longer and cut them down, it'll give me a lot more space to work on the first 30" or so of long workpieces. But I digress 

Dave H. (the other one)

* a sheet of MDF or Al under it as a sacrificial so I don't put Shameful Grooves in the table, e.g. N(TM) Mill has a total of 6 off 4mm drill marks, that's plenty for me!


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## Shadowdog500 (Jun 5, 2017)

I had one that came with the mill I bought 3 years ago and thought I never needed it.  Yesterday I used it for the first time and it came in really handy.  I had to mill Symmetric angles on a bar along with chamfers.  It made it super easy because there was only one setup.  Mill one side, flip the part over, and do the other side, and it is concentric. Then I set the head to 45º and did the chamfers.  I bet others will tell me a better way, but this worked well for me.

Chris


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## bfd (Jul 12, 2017)

my swivel base is still coated with the preservative that it came in there are many other ways to cut an angle. so I have one but have not used it. yes I am a toolaholic. that can not spell. when you need one you can get one bill


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## Wreck™Wreck (Jul 12, 2017)

You did not mention if a manual mill or NC, if NC a swivel base would be redundant much like having a compound slide on an NC lathe.

Or just use a fixed vice and clamp it to the table at the desired angle, if the angle is critical to the function of the part you will have to indicate either vice because you can't just use the angle marks on a swivel vice base.


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