# I have now had it with #@batteries~!



## graham-xrf (Sep 10, 2022)

While I dare say some folks here might have had their patience tried over batteries that go in most vehicles, of maybe their electric cars, the kind that get me pi**ed off are the little button cells that go in "digital calipers".

I do get it that one needs to get the right type. Silver, mercury, alkaline, lithium? Some are built for very low current need, and can work for years, while others, even with more energy, lose capacity on the shelf. I also get it that the residual leak of the electronics using auto-off + "wake-up" needs to be in nano-amps, and your Mitutoyo or iGaging is likely to do better than the $15 thing from eBay.
BUT..
Having to get out a jeweler's style 1.6mm Phillips driver to get at the two battery cover screws, and try not to lose them while changing the little button cell is starting to irritate! I would be OK with it if it would run for (say) 2 years, or 5 years, or ten, but having to do this every month or so is getting to me. Am I just getting cranky?

Digital display is fine - like on a powered DRO, but I think I will be going retro. Regardless I need the headband magnifier for a vernier scale, I want free of the damn batteries. A good dial caliper will do nicely. It probably still has to be better quality than the £15 eBay sort, batteries or not.

I guess I got somewhat into mini-rant, for which I apologise. I never thought a little thing like that could get me so uncool.


----------



## WobblyHand (Sep 10, 2022)

The cheap units do go through batteries pretty quickly.  The nicer, better engineered displays seem to last a lot longer.  That being said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the construction or manufacturing of the device was responsible.  Think hygroscopic flux as a leakage path.  I've had cheap calipers eat batteries in months, but a different caliper of the same brand and model last year's.  For the units that are battery eaters it might be worth checking all of the solder joints and cleaning of all the flux, even the no-clean stuff.  For all we know, they didn't use no clean flux and they didn't clean it either, since that would add manufacturing cost.

I buy the batteries in packs of 10, so I will have them when a device dies.  Have a small bin of various sizes.  Just recently had to change out the batteries on a digital thermometer, both thermometers were dead.


----------



## vtcnc (Sep 10, 2022)

At age 40 I started to notice my eyesight getting blurry up close. When I go for my eye exam, 8 years later, I am constantly surprised to re-learn I have 20/15 vision. It is very frustrating to deal with small things, up close now - I've got a pair of readers stashed in my car, a few in the shop and a few in the factory. 

I bought an Optivisor a couple of years ago for the shop and holy cow what a difference! The small part dropsies? I work in a sheetmetal factory where we manufacture our own portion scale platforms. I have a good stash of rejected platforms that make for great parts trays in the home shop. I line them with some thin urethane or rubber mat and make sure I work over them when dealing with tiny screws and parts.


----------



## rabler (Sep 10, 2022)

I once saw someone use a pair of metal tweezers to grab one of those batteries ...


----------



## Weldingrod1 (Sep 10, 2022)

Mitotoyo solar calipers are the bomb!

FYI, the early ones had a rechargeable battery in them. Medium pain to swap, but worth it!

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


----------



## graham-xrf (Sep 10, 2022)

rabler said:


> I once saw someone use a pair of metal tweezers to grab one of those batteries ...



Yep - thing #1 is the short-circuit current burn/case pressure event!
Thing #2 is the tweezer goes "click" around the slippery things, and they launch off across the room like a Ukranian artillery shell, and end up making a rattle sound somewhere behind/under something you took ages to get level, and have since dumped a whole lot of stuff behind!


----------



## FOMOGO (Sep 10, 2022)

I'll second the Mitu, but my Lincoln welding helmet, not so much. 



Weldingrod1 said:


> Mitotoyo solar calipers are the bomb!


----------



## 7milesup (Sep 10, 2022)

FOMOGO said:


> I'll second the Mitu, but my Lincoln welding helmet, not so much.


My Lincoln helmet goes through batteries too.  What sucks is that I don't know the battery is dead until I hit that first arc with my TIG, then it is a son-of-a-biscuit moment while I sit there and wait for that huge blue dot to disappear from my eyes.


----------



## wachuko (Sep 10, 2022)

rabler said:


> I once saw someone use a pair of metal tweezers to grab one of those batteries ...


That is why I have plastic tweezers to handle those when working on watches… never had the need for tweezers on a digital caliper


----------



## markba633csi (Sep 10, 2022)

You shouldn't have to replace every month- genuine Mitutoyo calipers use so little power you should get a year at least
But having said that, I still use a mechanical caliper








						Fake vs Genuine Mitutoyo Calipers
					

Clough42  posted this video the other day and I thought it would make a great reference video.  I do not have any Mitutoyo Digital Calipers. I use Shars for the most part. I usually plan to .001 tolerance and by cross checking with "real" micrometers I usually end up with in .002 or closer of...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


----------



## silence dogood (Sep 10, 2022)

7milesup said:


> My Lincoln helmet goes through batteries too.  What sucks is that I don't know the battery is dead until I hit that first arc with my TIG, then it is a son-of-a-biscuit moment while I sit there and wait for that huge blue dot to disappear from my eyes.


You brought up a serious safety question. There should be some feature to let you know the batteries on your helmet are going bad. Sure, it could add a couple of bucks to the cost of the helmet. But, dang it, your eyes are priceless.


----------



## Janderso (Sep 10, 2022)

7milesup said:


> My Lincoln helmet goes through batteries too.  What sucks is that I don't know the battery is dead until I hit that first arc with my TIG, then it is a son-of-a-biscuit moment while I sit there and wait for that huge blue dot to disappear from my eyes.


I thought the filter in the lens protected your eyes even when the battery went dead? I guess not.
So far my Miller digital Elite batteries have only been replaced once in three years.


----------



## projectnut (Sep 10, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> The cheap units do go through batteries pretty quickly.  *The nicer, better engineered displays seem to last a lot longer.  That being said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the construction or manufacturing of the device was responsible. * Think hygroscopic flux as a leakage path.  I've had cheap calipers eat batteries in months, but a different caliper of the same brand and model last year's.  For the units that are battery eaters it might be worth checking all of the solder joints and cleaning of all the flux, even the no-clean stuff.  For all we know, they didn't use no clean flux and they didn't clean it either, since that would add manufacturing cost.
> 
> I buy the batteries in packs of 10, so I will have them when a device dies.  Have a small bin of various sizes.  Just recently had to change out the batteries on a digital thermometer, both thermometers were dead.


I would totally agree.  I have a Mitutoyo caliper that's going on 4 years old.  It still has the original battery.  I also have several sets of HF calipers and the batteries last an average of between 2 and 3 years in these units.  Most of the HF units are the older ones that carry the Cen-Tech name.  I have only 1 long reach caliper that carries the Pittsburgh name.  These get used so rarely I leave the battery out of it until it's time to use the tool.


----------



## paul s (Sep 10, 2022)

How timely - the batteries in my Fowler gave up yesterday and I had to scavenge one from another device.  I have noticed that the rubber cover that allows access to the battery is deteriorating, probably from exposure to oil.


----------



## Boswell (Sep 10, 2022)

silence dogood said:


> There should be some feature to let you know the batteries on your helmet are going bad


 My Lincoln  Viking 3350 helmet has a "TEST" button.  When pressed, it darkens the window. I test it if I have not used it for a few days but after  a couple of years it has not failed or the battery has not needed replacement.


----------



## RJSakowski (Sep 10, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> The cheap units do go through batteries pretty quickly.  The nicer, better engineered displays seem to last a lot longer.  That being said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the construction or manufacturing of the device was responsible.  Think hygroscopic flux as a leakage path.  I've had cheap calipers eat batteries in months, but a different caliper of the same brand and model last year's.  For the units that are battery eaters it might be worth checking all of the solder joints and cleaning of all the flux, even the no-clean stuff.  For all we know, they didn't use no clean flux and they didn't clean it either, since that would add manufacturing cost.
> 
> I buy the batteries in packs of 10, so I will have them when a device dies.  Have a small bin of various sizes.  Just recently had to change out the batteries on a digital thermometer, both thermometers were dead.


For devices using alkaline manganese batteries (AAA, AA, C, & D) a leaking cell will deposit a caustic film which will create a leakage path.  I have had several devices which had formerly good battery life where the life of the batteries dropped to less than half.   When I experience this shorter life, I will take the devices apart and thoroughly scrub the electronics, rinsing well with distilled water.  On a couple of them, the electronics was sealed in the case so unfotunately cleaning was not an option.

Button cells of the type used in digital calipers are available as alkaline cells or as silver oxide cells.  The ubiquitous LR44 is an alkaline cell while the the 357 is a silver oxide cell.  The 357 has a higher capacity and also has a flatter discharge curve, both of which provide longer service life.


----------



## RJSakowski (Sep 10, 2022)

There is a great difference in capacity between name brand and no name  lithium coin cells... and button cells as well for that matter.  I only use Everyready, Mallory, or Panasonic coin cells and button cells.


----------



## MrWhoopee (Sep 10, 2022)

Janderso said:


> I thought the filter in the lens protected your eyes even when the battery went dead? I guess not.
> So far my Miller digital Elite batteries have only been replaced once in three years.


The UV is filtered whether the battery is dead or not. It is the blast of visible light that temporarily leaves you seeing spots.

I've had my cheapest of the cheap auto-darkening hood for over 4 years now, still working fine on the original battery. I wonder if it has one.  

I don't know what you guys are talking about. None of my 7 or 8 calipers use batteries.

I bought a couple of the HF magnifying visors. I find myself wearing them instead of a hat.


----------



## graham-xrf (Sep 10, 2022)

silence dogood said:


> You brought up a serious safety question. There should be some feature to let you know the batteries on your helmet are going bad. Sure, it could add a couple of bucks to the cost of the helmet. But, dang it, your eyes are priceless.


This is not so hard. My first thought is the helmet needs a "mod". Start with a (tiny) little circuit that will light up a flashing red LED when the battery voltage is no good. This is not unlike the thing that lets you know your smoke alarm battery is running low. Then, add to the mod, a "add-on" battery pack enough to last a more convenient time period. It could get more elaborate, in effect "adding up" the current usage until it gets to the point it is risky.

This need is so obvious that I am thinking all sorts of clever folk may have already published a solution.

[Edit: Now that I think on it, I am not the best guy to be suggesting using smoke alarm circuits for the purpose they were designed for!  ]


----------



## Larry$ (Sep 10, 2022)

I have an older Fowler caliper and the battery lasts at least a couple of years. I only buy name brand batteries. 
My Mitutoyo mic has a mechanical readout, in addition to the barrel scale, no batteries!


----------



## pdentrem (Sep 10, 2022)

I shine a bright light or full sun on my welding helmet. If it darkens then I am good to go. Mine does not have a test switch.
Pierre


----------



## T Bredehoft (Sep 10, 2022)

I bought about five "Pittsburgh" digital calipers from Harbor freight when they were giving coupons to buy them at $10 or so each. I buy name brand batteries, the last four at about $9.00 for the lot. They last 1 1/2 to 3 years, hard to tell when any one caliper has had a new battery.  I've never regretted  buying cheap calipers.


----------



## NCjeeper (Sep 10, 2022)

I just replaced the battery in my digital Mitutoyo mic. I got 4 years out of it.


----------



## markba633csi (Sep 10, 2022)

The helmet does not depend on the batteries to protect your eyes.  No manufacturer in their right mind would risk a class action over a coin cell
The clear UV filter blocks the bad stuff automatically
When you get a new helmet, make sure the UV filter is installed- some come separately in the box and need to be installed by the user.  Don't leave it out!
-M


----------



## Aukai (Sep 10, 2022)

This is just another safety brief, I never had a patient with this, but it was brought up as a safety briefing for us. Make extra sure that any of these batteries stay way out of the reach of small children. It can turn into a significant surgical event as the battery burns a hole into a child's stomach.


----------



## Provincial (Sep 10, 2022)

I have a 30 year old Jackson self-darkening welding helmet.  It turns off after about 10 minutes if no flash has been detected.  To turn it on, you press the cover lens, which presses a button on the unit.  It then goes from almost clear (a subtle green tint) to a bright light green tint.  That shows you that the unit is ready to work.  If the batteries are not working, there is no bright tint.

I also have a later Jackson that has a push button switch on the inside surface.  This can switch between shades, grinding mode, and off.  There are LED indicator lights for power and shade selection, and those provide power indication.  

I have been very happy with Jackson products.


----------



## Boswell (Sep 10, 2022)

markba633csi said:


> The clear UV filter blocks the bad stuff automatically


I believe that welding produces a large range of radiation (UVA, UVB, UVC and probably more plus the overall brightness component. Ordinary glass will block UVB and UVC (most of it at least) but does little for UVA and of course the overall brightness level. I read that modern automotive front windows (buy not side and rear) are treated to block UVA in addition to the UVB and UVC. This would seem to indicate that blocking the UV can be done with a static clear filter in a welding helmet (as @markba633csi indicated and that the darkening is for the overall brightness level. That should *NOT* diminish the need to avoid the overall brightness and even a short dazzle or flash would seem to be a bad thing. I would think that some way to test a auto-darkening wellding helmet before use is still very important. In addition to the "Test" function my helmet will also darken just by looking directly at the shop light above me I could also think of several other ways, just closing your eyes when you strike the first arc would let you know if it darkened.  BTW, I learned all of the above on the internet so don't take it for fact.   DYOR [Do your own research]


----------



## silence dogood (Sep 10, 2022)

pdentrem said:


> I shine a bright light or full sun on my welding helmet. If it darkens then I am good to go. Mine does not have a test switch.
> Pierre


Pierre, you beat me to it. I had thought about it. Came up with the same answer as yours.  Except now I know that it must work. ￼


----------



## RJSakowski (Sep 10, 2022)

My helmet is solar powered with a rechargeable battery.  When I first don my helmet for a welding session, I quickly  pass my hand over the lens.  If the helmet darkens, I'm good to go.


----------



## Dabbler (Sep 10, 2022)

On the original subject of *&@$ button cells, I just bought a new-to-me truck.  the last owner said that the remote starter was buggered.  It turns out that both remotes had a CR2032 cell in it.  It needed 2-2016 cells stacked in the same place.  Apparently lots of people make the same mistake.


----------



## Dhal22 (Sep 10, 2022)

rabler said:


> I once saw someone use a pair of metal tweezers to grab one of those batteries ...




Years ago my brother's idiot blond stupid now ex wife tried to pry a night light off an electrical outlet with a butter knife.   And I was watching.


----------



## westerner (Sep 10, 2022)

vtcnc said:


> and make sure I work over them when dealing with tiny screws and parts.


The voice of experience, this is


----------



## Winegrower (Sep 10, 2022)

I can’t really relate to this thread.  My Mit caliper and mic both have toolless battery access.   The caliper I replace batteries maybe 12 to 18 months, but so infrequently that I am kind of guessing.   The mic maybe twice that, 24 to 36 months.   I buy a sheet of batteries on eBay, last was 50 2032’s for some very cheap price.   That is more or less a lifetime supply for me.


----------



## Bi11Hudson (Sep 11, 2022)

Re: Welding helmets. Mine (HF~2004) was occasionally rarely used, I used to step outside and look up. If it darkened from the sun, or even a strong light source, I figured it was usable. Then I lost it. . . Still have the Jackson hard shield, maybe I'll get another one some day.

Re: Caliper batteries. I have several *dial *calipers, no batteries to change. But an advert came up for a digital for under 3 bux, with shipping. Too good to pass up, I ordered several. The battery in it was shot, lasted a minute or two. I bought a package for just in case. My solution was to mount a battery holder, AAA, on the back and ran wires over to the battery box. Then filled the battery box with silicon caulking. I made a plastic tab for the AAA clip so could isolate the battery if I wasn't using the caliper. I normally don't. . .

There is a *dial* caliper at my desk. Even when my vision is fuzzy and I can't see the numbers, it's 0.100" per revolution. If I can see the dial, I can get pretty close to right. Especially for small numbers below 0.100 inch. With the digital, I have to have a magnifying glass to read any thing. Metric conversion is often done in my head (0.040 inch/mm), unless it's critical. Then I use my computer where I can enlarge the characters enough to read them.

.


----------



## Dabbler (Sep 11, 2022)

hey @Bi11Hudson it has worked the other way for me.  My vision is just bad enough the etched surfaces on my Mic and my vernier were too fuzzy to read well, so I gave away my Mitutoyo mechanical  vernier and went digital.  With that I can easily read the numbers.  Finally I just bought a Mitutoyo digital mic and I can now read the numbers again! yay!

-- trying to read those satin etched barrels on mics is getting too fuzzy and I've made some embarrassing mistakes lately.  Mistakes no more!


----------



## Bi11Hudson (Sep 11, 2022)

Agreed on the etched markings. Much (most) of my desk work is with small stuff where I don't need to count above a hundred thou. The dial works for me there. I also need a bench glass when sizes get longer. But counting "tics" is still easier than reading small numbers when I am only half awake or haven't had any coffee the last hour or so. And, I'm just a cantankerous "old school" hobbyist. 

.


----------

