# Pluming & wiring Hydraulics for brake press



## Charley Davidson (Mar 14, 2013)

Can any of you make sense of this mess from the pics, I need to get this plumed and wired for my brake press. It's a self contained hydraulic pump from a lift bed. Can't find anything online or get any help from the co.

The 3 open ports are labeled C1,C2 they are the 2 on the side together the 3rd one is C3 

Only one of the lugs on the wiring will fit on the large studs on the solenoid all the rest are small and would only go on the small stud.


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 14, 2013)

the small solenoids on the top and sides of the hydraulic manifold operate the spools inside the manifold. the solenoids are electromagnets, that need power to actuate the spool. in other words the solenoid is energized becomes an electromagnet attracts the steel spool towards the solenoid uncovering ports within the manifold which direct hydraulic fluid to it's intended hydraulic circuit.
you might want to put the black wire large terminal on the big post on the power in solenoid, you will also put your battery cable here on the same post.
this will give  + to the switches.




the first question i would ask is what is the voltage we are dealing with? 12V or 24dc ?


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## Charley Davidson (Mar 14, 2013)

I believe it's 12 volt.  The 2 solenoids have 2 yellow wires each and one from each solenoid is tied together.


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 14, 2013)

cool those solenoids are being powered together.
it's a simple matter of directing power through the switch to the solenoid to actuate which solenoid you wish to control,



in DC power,  red is +,  black is -, green is ground in most systems, if you are going to change wire colors make sure you know where the wires are going and either mark the wires or make a drawing to help out later on
let me know if it helps out, i'll try to explain in a different way if necessary.


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## Charley Davidson (Mar 14, 2013)

The white, black, green all come out of the up, down controller.


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 14, 2013)

i was just looking at that, the wire colors are throwing me off ...lol


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 14, 2013)

is the white wire being connected to the 2 yellow leads?


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 14, 2013)

it appears that the green and white will go on the same small terminal, unless i'm mistaken.
i'll double check to make sure...i did it's the only way i found that makes sense.


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## JOSHUAZ2 (Mar 15, 2013)

more pictures would be better but i can explain the switch wiring and what it does. the black wire is +12V it supplies the switch with power from the large solenoid bolt on the left. the green wire runs to the solenoid small tap on top which energizes the solenoid starting the motor when either the up or down button is pressed. the white wire should go to the solenoid's but you never show the ends of some of the wires so i cant be sure. i will dig thru my hydraulics books and see if i can find that valve block and assist you with that. +12vdc should land on the large solenoid bolt with the black from the switch. gnd will go anywhere on the chassis. when i say solenoid i am talking about the solenoid on the electric motor not the hydraulic solenoid's

the way i see it working is when you press up 12v runs from the black to the green starting the motor and fluid exits one of the ports.  when you press down 12v runs to the green and white wire, the green again starts the motor and the white actuates the two solenoids closing one valve and opening the other causing oil to exit the other port. the third port confuses me though. where is the reservoir more pics would be appreciated.

Roy


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## Charley Davidson (Mar 15, 2013)

I will take more pics tonight and post them in the am. Thanks for the help, I also have a second pump of a similar type I'll post, don't know if either work or not.


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## Charley Davidson (Mar 16, 2013)

White wire goes to a yellow on one of the spool solenoids and the other yellow on that solenoid ties to a yellow on the other spool solenoid. White wire comes out of controller.

It is a self contained unit, the reservoir is the tank on the end of the motor, this is a power unit for a dump bed for a pickup truck.

The cylinder is one of 2 being used

What are the 2 black things on the pump block?


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## JOSHUAZ2 (Mar 16, 2013)

ok the two wires that are wired together go to ground and the white lands with the green on the small motor solenoid terminal.


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## Charley Davidson (Mar 16, 2013)

JOSHUAZ2 said:


> ok the two wires that are wired together go to ground and the white lands with the green on the small motor solenoid terminal.



The white is butted into a yellow going into one of the solenoids so I don't see how it could/should go to the starter solenoid :thinking:


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## JOSHUAZ2 (Mar 17, 2013)

I meant the free yellow solenoid wire it looked white in the picture. I believe it to be the last free wire. as for as the hydraulic ports i believe port 1 and 2 to be regulated outputs and 3 would be the return.


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## mitsue (Mar 17, 2013)

Charley Davidson said:


> What are the 2 black things on the pump block?



Probably flow and pressure controls.
Darcy


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## Cowman56141 (Mar 23, 2013)

They are pressure bypasses the way it I see it wired is the black is put on the large nut the one with nothing on it and you have to put a positive 12v cable to it,the double wire goes from the hydraulics to the small nut on the solenoid of the starter, the other white and green go to the hydraulics solenoids other wires respectively one will open one hydraulic solenoid the other will open the other hydraulic solenoid a negative 12v ground wire from a battery goes to the starter somewhere to ground it, pushing a button will take juice from the battery 12v + through the hydraulic solenoid to the starter solenoid opening the hydraulic valve and kicking on the starter, let off it stops push the other button and the other hydraulic solenoid opens and the starter kicks in ... So doubled up hydraulic solenoid wire to small nut on starter solenoid ... Black to hot side of starter solenoid ... Green and white connected separately to each of remaining two hydraulic wires .... Good luck


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## Cowman56141 (Mar 23, 2013)

Relooking at the pics does both wires complete a circuit when you push the down button could you do a circuit test on the switch push the down and see if the black connects to the white and the green and if you push the up button does it only connect the black and green not the white and black , that will affect the wiring 


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## Charley Davidson (Mar 23, 2013)

Cowman56141 said:


> Relooking at the pics does both wires complete a circuit when you push the down button could you do a circuit test on the switch push the down and see if the black connects to the white and the green and if you push the up button does it only connect the black and green not the white and black , that will affect the wiring
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



I dropped it off at Northern Tool for a mechanic there to look at, haven't heard from him yet so it's out of my possession at the moment. Thanks for your reply. I'll get it back sometime next week and try that if he doesn't have it figured out .


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## JOSHUAZ2 (Mar 27, 2013)

Cowman56141 said:


> Relooking at the pics does both wires complete a circuit when you push the down button could you do a circuit test on the switch push the down and see if the black connects to the white and the green and if you push the up button does it only connect the black and green not the white and black , that will affect the wiring
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



Yes when you press down it connects the black 12v+ to both the white and green wire and when you press up it connects only to the green wire. they would never connect the solenoids through each other or electrically in series.


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## JOSHUAZ2 (Mar 27, 2013)

duplicate


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## Cowman56141 (Mar 28, 2013)

As soon as I looked at that I knew that not only do we need a wiring schematic it would be nice to have a port schematic on the hydraulic valve control, which ports are used  when the solenoid is opened then if you get it back working let us know what they did , thanks



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## Charley Davidson (Mar 28, 2013)

The guy couldn't figure it out(don't think he really tried) So it's back to figuring it out with you guys.


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## strantor (Mar 28, 2013)

Charley Davidson said:


> What are the 2 black things on the pump block?


Those are cartridge valves of some sort, could be anything. My votes for the 2 most likely possibilities are (vote #1) adjustable orifice valves for controlling extend/retract speeds, and (vote #2) - manual operators for testing extend/retract.


JOSHUAZ2 said:


> the third port confuses me though.
> 
> [...]
> 
> i believe port 1 and 2 to be regulated outputs and 3 would be the return.



I don't believe that there would be a visible "return" port since the tank and manifold are integrated. I think that 3rd port served another purpose that we may never know. Some lift gates have a smaller cylinder that performs an "open/close" function that is independent of the "lift/lower" function; could have been for that. Or it could have been to retract some sort of spring-loaded failsafe only if sufficient pressure was present. 

If I had this thing sitting on my work bench, I would wire the buttons to the solenoids, attach some clear hoses to all the ports and stuff the hoses back into the fill cap of the reservoir and start pushing buttons... see what happens. You don't absolutely have to know what functions these ports used to serve, you are repurposing. Find what ports work for you. play with the adjustments on the cartridge valves, have a blast. Wear gloves and eye protection


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## Cowman56141 (Mar 28, 2013)

Strantor you and i think alike my guess is that the 3rd line goes to a lock if this came off a lift bed , if I had it on the bench it wouldn't take long to figure out a way to wire it but talking someone else through it is a whole new game but i am always willing to put my two cents worth to help


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## Cowman56141 (Mar 29, 2013)

The point was made that this lift pump would have limited time use because you are using a starter that builds heat and usually only has bushings and not bearings so it would not last long in heavy use if you want to use it for that if you are using it for light use it may last awhile you may be able to fit a 110 or 220 motor in it but the rpms will be too high so you need a reduced speed motor as for the one way pumping all you would need is a hand valve that way you would get rid of having 12v dc and AC motor 
But if you wish to use the controller as is plan on putting pull back springs on the cylinder and have a battery and charger and get us a hydraulic schematic, hook 12v to starter and the solenoids and see which ones puts out oil before we can move forward


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## JOSHUAZ2 (Mar 30, 2013)

Having an up and down switch where the pump runs both ways denotes two way hydraulic flow and a dual acting cylinder. This requires a return for fluid from the cylinder. When i have seen other hydraulic blocks numbered like this the 1 and 2 went to two seperate cylinders and were metered and the 3 return was joined. one solenoid controls fwd/reverse flow the other blocks flow between the two outputs so that one doesn't bleed into the other when power is off.


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## strantor (Mar 30, 2013)

JOSHUAZ2 said:


> Having an up and down switch where the pump runs both ways denotes two way hydraulic flow and a dual acting cylinder. This requires a return for fluid from the cylinder. When i have seen other hydraulic blocks numbered like this the 1 and 2 went to two seperate cylinders and were metered and the 3 return was joined. one solenoid controls fwd/reverse flow the other blocks flow between the two outputs so that one doesn't bleed into the other when power is off.



What do you see there that gives you an indication that the pump runs in 2 directions? I see a solenoid like an automotive starter solenoid, with one side bonded to the chassis ground, which precludes reversing the voltage to it. This pump can only run one direction.

What I've seen in a double acting (single pump direction) system is just like what's shown below:

View attachment 50988


With no voltage applied, the field-side port (ports going to the cylinder) are blocked off, thereby holding the liftgate in current position. With one of the solenoids energized, one of the ports is aligned to the high pressure and one is aligned to the drain (extend). With the other solenoid energized, the opposite port is aligned to high pressure and the opposite to drain (retract).

In the graphic above, 4 ports are shown; commonly referred to "P1" (or A) "P2" (or B) "supply" (or "pressure", "P") and "tank" ("T") In Charley's application, with everything being self-contained, I believe that "supply" and "tank" are integrated into the manifold/tank so you would never see them unless you took everything apart. This leaves us wit "P1" ("A"), "P2" ("B"), and (something else) "P3" ("C").


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## JOSHUAZ2 (Apr 12, 2013)

what i meant was that the pump runs for both up and down with a changing in valving for directions. Not that the pump changes directions. sorry for any confusion.


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