# Logan 400.  Headstock. (Total Logan 400 Rebuild)



## mjhenks

Had this Logan for 10 years and my Grandfather 50 years prior.  Has served me well cutting soft stuff but recently noticed movement in the chuck and took it apart to investigate.  I have a few questions i hope i can get answers to.

1.  Are the spindle bearings pre-loaded or are they clearance and get their pre-load strickly from the take-up nut on the gear drive side?  I found my take-up nut rather loose found but there is play in the main spidle bearing when it is not mounted.  Mainly axial.

2.  What torque should the take-up nut be set to?

3.  I figure new spindle bearings are smooth as silk.  Mine are not super rough but not super smooth either.  When do you decide to spend the $100 for a new one?

4.  I put the spindle back into the bearings and housing without the drive pulleys and gears.  I tightened the lock-nut moderatly and measured the run-out.  It measured .0006".  I deflected the nose in all four directions getting ~.001" deflection but always returning to within .0001"  If i spin the spindle at that point (with a chuck on it) it will spin free for about 45 seconds.   Does that all sound right?

(Edit July 2020)  You can also see my install of a QCGB here.  here


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## mjhenks

More pictures.  ID plate and S/N.

Bearing in housing is the gear side smaller bearing.  New Departure 773L07

The bearing on the spindle is the main.  I have not found the part # yet but it is New Departure and ends in L08  (Not sure what that means)  May be 4473L08 but need to confirm.


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## Chuck K

The bearing is loaded by the take up nut.  Tighten it as tight as you can get it (within reason).  When you had the bearings out you should have cleaned and regreased them.  The rear bearing could probably be found cheap enough but the front bearing is rather pricey. It may sound strange, but soaking the bearing in Pine Sol will soften the hard grease so you can rinse it out with hot water.  You will have to pry the shields off to clean and regrease them.  Fill them about 1/3 to 1/2 full of quality grease and they will probably be good as new.....or tighten the nut and run them the way they are.)

Chuck


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## Redlineman

Hey;

My experience is with 200s. I don't know if I can assume commonality to the 400 or not, but it would not surprise me that the bearings were the same. It is my understanding that the CORRECT main spindle bearing was/is preloaded from the manufacturer (that is why they are pricey), and can only be sourced now through Logan, who had a bunch made especially for them with the proper preload. The bearing number is the same as the generic version, I believe, but a generic bearing WILL NOT work, having far too much play to cut without chattering. The drive end bearing is generic. Tightening the take up nut on the drive side of the shaft only draws the components on the spindle together tighter. It does not load the main bearing. There is a slick fix for this that adds another bearing that bears against the back of the headstock and allows you to preload a generic main bearing, but it takes a bit of doing.

You can leave the bearing shields in place and service the bearings. Picking them out will almost always destroy them, and they are not very successfully reinstalled after removal. Go ahead... ask me!
 :whiteflag:

Wash them out by whatever means works for you and let them dry. When your solvent of choice runs clear, they are clean. Some people have had luck using a generic bearing cone type packing tool for this. Others have very successfully used a pressure pot of some sort like is used for spraying paint. This has been a topic of discussion recently on Practical Machinist Antique forum.


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## ricsmall

If you have a vacuum sealer in the kitchen, put a good amount of grease in the bottom of bag,drop in bearing, then vacuum seal it. It works like a charm. 

Richard


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## mjhenks

Got the main bearing off today and cleaned up the spindle.  Made a press collar to get it off by pressing on the slinger.  Worked well.

Can confirm now that the main bearing is:  New Departure 4773L08

Now to clean them up.  I do not think i will try and get the shield off.  Looks like a loosing battle.  I think the bearings are going to fine once i clean them.

Next item to ponder is how far to go in fixing the housing up knowing that will spill over into the rest.  Painting is easy but my background there is prepping and painting cars.  I do not want to go that far but i think she needs new paint..... 

If i take it off the bed how hard is it to realign?  

Anyone have a source for a reversing gear bracket?  I need a new handle.  One on Ebay but i do not need the gears.....


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## Redlineman

Hmmm...

Very different spindle from the 200. Does that snap ring looking item - which I assume is supposed to be the "spring washer" - go under the front bearing cap? These are shown in the parts book (LA-247), but there is no mention of them on the Logan site. Neither my lathe nor the complete original headstock I bought for parts had one. Hmmm....


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## mjhenks

The snap ring goes around the main spindle bearing. 

I figure it is pulled against the housing when the end nut is tightened allowing the spindle to pull on the inner race of the main spindle bearing.  The nut load against the inner race of the smaller rear bearing is transferred to the smaller snap ring in the rear of the housing setting the axial preload

Being Conrad ( deep groove or regular ball bearings) sort of creates a "X" in bearing terms to provide a little more stiffness.  ( meaning it forces the ball bearings slightly to the side of the bearing race simulating what an angular contact bearing does)

Anyways...  Off to soak bearings


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## Redlineman

Hey;

I should reiterate that all my comments are based on the 200 I'm familiar with, and there may be slight to significant differences in other models. I need to investigate that spring washer a bit more, since the bearing cap is the only thing that holds the spindle in place, other than main bearing to headstock friction.

FWIW, my 200 had layers of gack paint all over it. It needed so much mechanical work that doing a complete refresh including stripping and repainting seemed the best course. I'm a recovering auto refinnisher myself, and doing paint projects is about the last thing I want to do. Mechanical is so much easier!


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## mjhenks

Thanks

As you are I am learning that the 400 is different from others although the principle seems similar to the other 9" models out there

I have the headstock all apart now.  I have cleaned all of the parts and stripped the gear cover of a few layers of paint.  The headstock body is next.

Question.  How do you remove the Logan name plate??  Grind off the rivet heads and drill out??

Also it looks like new bearings are in store.  Old ones are actually pretty rough...

More pictures later...


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## Redlineman

Hey;

*DO NOT* grind off the drill screws. They are hard and will not drill. There are various methods like vice grips, cutting screw slots, directional tapping with a sharp chisel. The slickest method I heard of was drilling the right size hole in a piece of sheet metal and tack welding it to the head of the screw! I wish I were you, and had me telling me all this great stuff before I ground mine off!  :banghead:

New bearings, eh? That's gonna cost you. The main is a special preloaded bearing you can only get from Logan, if I understand everything correctly, and if it is like the 200. A generic will not work. I'd do everything I could to save the old ones. They can feel really crappy until you get them cleaned out. Mine did. Amazing what new grease can do.


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## mjhenks

Thank you Redlineman.  Glad i did not go for it last night.  
I see that logan sells new twist rivets for the QCGB ID plate but nothing for the main ID plate.  I
 think i will be taping that off though if they are that hard.

Bearings.  I will try to clean them more but they feel really bad right now and if they were originally pre-loaded the are not any more.  

Some boring pictures of my spare time....







Cover is now in primer and the main headstock casting is being stripped.

The only broken part so far that i cannot repair is the reversing gear bracket.  Handle is gone and one gear has a broken tooth.

I am also now looking for what paint i will use.  
Rustoleum industrial has a nice Dark Machine Grey that looks close but is only available in spray paint.  
Would rather buy it by the quart and spray it myself.  
Their quart paint only comes in a lighter grey.  

Don't want to go crazy with the paint but want something that will stand up over time.


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## mjhenks

Spindle bearings...

So i have a quote from Logan for new bearings because mine just feel rough.  I spoke to a bearing buddy yesterday about taking a regular bearing and grinding the groove into the bearing.  Certainly it is possible if you know the right people but even if they did it for free the risk is high in getting the unit back together again.  Especially if the inner cage is rivited.  Bearings look a little cheaper now.  

I spend some more time cleaning the bearings last night and stumbled on something.  The bearings have soaked in Acitone for days and have gotten pretty clean so that nothing comes out of them when you manually spin them in the cleaner.  They were still rough though.  

How do you spin the bearing faster was my questions while it is in the cleaner.

I took my hand drill and dipped the bottom of the bearing in the cleaner then put the top of the outter race against the chuck on my drill.  The chuck is hard plastic with grip ribs so i was not sure if this would work.  The bearing spun just fine so now i could spin the race faster.  As i went faster the bearing just locked up.  Could not move it at all.  Hmm...  I worked it a little and a TON of crap came out.  The grips on the drill acted like a vibration mechanism and helped to loosen the crap in the bearing.  Pretty cool.  

The bearings are really clean now and honestly feel pretty good. 

Nice trick i learned.

Headstock housing is being stripped.  1/3 of it done yesterday.  more today.  Looks like i accidentally removed some of the red from the Logan plate so i may have to re-paint that too.....  Bummer.  Still have not figure if i am going to mill that off before paint....


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## Redlineman

Hey;

Interesting. There are people that say you should NEVER spin bearings with compressed air, as it damages the bearing, or begins a cycle of stress that leads to failure. Can't imagine drill RPM would do that. Cool that you got junk out of it. Probably old metal dust that had corroded, mixed with varnish of old dead grease, and turned to some sort of chunky junk. Sometimes it is very strange what chemical will dissolve what substance as well. I pulled the shield off of one side of my bearing and cleaned it. I put the cover back on as best I could, but it rubs a little. One of the bearings no longer has the shield on it. Hopefully it stays clean enough inside of the headstock that it is not an issue.


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## mjhenks

So I will go ahead and replace the bearings.  Not confidant otherwise

Messed up the ID plate stripping paint.  Had to come off.  Milled off the rivet heads to get the plate off to refinish it.

Drilled out the rivet studs with carbide tools.  Those suckers were hard .  Man... but it came out well.  Thanks for the heads up on that.

More pictures later


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## mjhenks

Pulled the saddle last night as i figured i better get work done on the bed so i can mount other stuff to it as they are finished.  I also was able to take a quick look at the other gears and nuts on the assembly.  I think a new cross feed nut will be in order but otherwise the rest seamed fine.




Stopped by the paint store as well to view my options.  Since i took the Data plate off i have a very nice sample of the original color.  Decided i will use a oil base industrial Latex paint.  Can't justify the $$ for Epoxy.

The reversing gear and bracket i am looking for are pictured below.  The gear is 36 tooth.  You can see mine only has 35.  The handle is missing so i need a new bracket.




I am also chasing down QCGB info from 9B and 10" Logans to learn how far the output shaft centerline is from the mount surface.  I gotta believe it is adaptable to the 400 even though i am not trying to power my cross feed.  Threading will be that much easier.  I already know the box is 6.5" wide but am looking for the other dims as well as pictures of the input side under the left cover.  I also located a picture of the shaft.  It sure looks like the standard shaft can be cut down and adapted.  The woodruff keyway will be the most difficult part.




That is all for today.


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## stevecmo

Here's a pic inside the cover of my 815/820 lathe from when I refurb'd it.




Does that help at all?


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## mjhenks

Yes

Thank you


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## Redlineman

Hey;

See my thread for a very good match to the original color. I think it is quite handsome. Nice looking machine, Steve. One to aspire to!!


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## mjhenks

Steve,

That is one nice looking gear train.  The attention to detail is.....  Wow.

John. 

 Found your thread.  Have some reading to do now.  Can you confirm that the color is  *Benjamin Moore Baby Seal Grey 2119-30* and not  *Benjamin Moore Baby Seal Black 2119-30?*  Probably the same but on their web site they call it black.  Want to make sure it is the same.  It sure looks VERY close to the color sample i have under the ID plate.

This thread is becoming more of a Logan 400 total machine rebuild.  Should try to change the title.

More work last night.  Struck out at Sherwin Williams with matching my paint.  In California they have outlawed the tinting of many oil based paints.  I will be looking at the  *Benjamin Moore Baby Seal Grey 2119-30* now.  

I had said earlier that i did not want to take down my saddle as i did not want to have too many groups of parts.  My pie tin system is working and i really wanted to see what other parts are damaged so the saddle came apart last night.  Not too bad but i found that the cross feed nut is totally shot.  ~10 degrees of pitch and probable over .05" of axial play.  That would explain alot.   




What material us used for the wipers?  Look slike leather.  My gibs and beds look good.  I may re-grind my gibs at work to make sure they are flat but i think all will be ok.

Compound.  How do you get it apart?  I cannot get the lead screw out of the nut.  I have removed the handle, the gib screws and the set screw holding the nut in place.  I cannot drive the unit forward or reverse unless i am suposed to force it.  Any tips?  




It seems the compound nut is ok but i did find a nice gouge out of the compound base.  Not bad but anyone have a spare laying around?




This compound came with the lathe from my Grandfather.  I always thought it was a replacement but when i pulled it out i realised it is VERY different.  Any able to ID it?






This weekends plan is to clean up the bed, the saddle and the rest of the small parts.  Also to start sourcing paint so i can start to put it back together.

Where there any accent colors painted on these?  I have seen red on the handles and my compound handle apears to have yellow on it.  (Maybe it came from the mystery compound)


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## stevecmo

mjhenks,

Thanks for the kind words.  It does take quite a bit of tedious work to bring these old machines back to life, but it's rewarding.  Every time you look at it you will remember what it USED to look like and all the work you put into it.

I can't confirm the paint 100% but when I was researching it the info I found indicated it was the SW Baby Seal BLACK.

The wipers are wool felt.  I bought mine from Mick Finch at Blue Chip Machine Shop - he's a good guy.  He sells a small sheet of the good stuff and it's just a matter of cutting something close to the shape of your wiper covers with a razor blade or xacto knife.  The old ones probably look like leather because they're saturated with old, hardened oil and yuck.  Here's a link to Mick's site:  http://bluechipmachineshop.com/bc_blog/welcome-to-bcms/felt-wiper-pad/

He also sells small bottle of the correct Mobile Vactra and Velocite oils you will need.

I want to say that the compound nut has left hand threads, but don't remember for certain.

Hope that helps.

Steve


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## mjhenks

Thanks Steve.

So it turns out in Orange County, Ca you cannot get oil based paints any more.  Not at least ones that are tintable.  They outlawed the tints or something like that.  Fortionatly for me i work with a good friend who lives in San Diego County who is also restoring a Lathe.  He is going to pick up my paint and primer and bring it in next week.  Paint may start to fly next week.  I am going to use Benjamin Moore Alkyd Gloss Enamil in Baby Seal Black.

Other activity for the day was to spin my main thread shaft and the cross shaft on another lathe to clean them up.  Years of gunk.  Nice to be able to spin it to clean it up.  Turned out great.  Will post pictures later.


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## Redlineman

Hey;

But, all I wanted to do was give it a quick degrease?..... Honest!   :rofl:

Yes, it is Baby Seal *Black*. I see that I erroneously referred to it as Grey in my thread. SURE WISH WE COULD EDIT!!!!!!!

The compound rest screw bushing on the 200 (LA-748) is a right had thread.

I bought thick felt pads - something like 2x4" - intended for furniture. Got them at Home Depot, and I see Lowes has them as well. As someone else commented when they recommended this idea, "they are only wipers. Not worth over thinking it." $1.298 and done.

That yellow compound looks somewhat similar to a 200, but I can't swear to it.


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## mjhenks

Long day of de-greasing and stripping paint.  Got everything done except the tail stock.  All waiting for paint now.




Cleaned up the drive shaft and cross shaft.  I drilled each for a center and checked them up in a lathe.  Then went to town cleaning the thread and the shaft.  Turned out nice.




The Bed has a few ID items on it.  Any idea what these are?    First one is a "K" at the headstock end where a QCGB would go.




Second is what looks like a riveted tag that says "1B" maybe.  Looks like it may be part of the casting and not actually riveted in place.  It is also ground down.




Took the motor drive system apart as well.  Looks like I will be making a new idler shaft and likely having to re-bush the bushings.  I was shocked at how trashed the shaft was and how sloppy the bushing was.  Probably .05" of radial play.   I also do not think I have the original pulley on this.  Not sure if I will try and find one.  Afraid of what it might cost.




What chemicals have you all used to kill shallow rust pockets.  For a car I would bead blast it but I no longer have access to one.




Last for today I restored my gear train tag from inside the gear cover.  Thankfully this tag is held on with drive nails that have a hole all the way thru so they can be driven out from the outside.  (Unlike the ID tag)  I repainted the flat black and then sanded off the top to reveal the pretty brass letters.  I am working on the ID tag as well.  Waiting for the red to dry.




Getting to the point where everything is clean and ready for paint or re-assembly.  Coming from a car background I am tempted to see what it would cost to get all the fasteners re-plated.  Ya, overkill but it makes it so pretty.

Looked over my cross shaft and compound nuts today once I got them cleaned.  The compound is fine.  The cross I am not sure.  Is it supposed to be brass or steal?  Mine is steal.  The compound is brass.  For that matter my half nut is also steal.

Questions....
- I see some guys painting the sprockets of the gears.  Was that how it was done?
- I see some guys accent painting the knots and hand wheels with red.  Was that how it was done?
- My compound nut is tight on the thread both axially and radially.  My cross shaft nut is tight axially but is loose radial.  That is more in the yaw/pitch it has a lot of freedom.  How should it feel and should it be brass or steal?

That is all for today.


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## hvontres

Looking good so far. Paint will be in on Tuesday 

I think the #18 tag was probably the ID tag for the pattern.


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## Redlineman

Looking good, MJ;

In looking at all those bits, I can see that the change gear guard is probably the same as a 200. The only other piece that might be is the saddle. Maybe the cross and compound as well, but I'm not sure. Everything else is different.

I would also blast the guard, without question. If you have air, it might be worth getting a simple blaster and giving it a going over. Barring that, a heavy knotted wire wheel on a 4" grinder. Certainly some naval jelly would not hurt, but that takes a lot of time to sit and work. Your tag looks GREAT. I don't even have one and have not seen one for sale yet. Might have to buy a cover to get one. I'm betting the countershaft sprocket could be had cheaply off of ebay, and that it might be the same LA-912 as used on the 200. Like this;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logan-10-La...440?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a688dd40

I do not think they used any contrasting colors at all, anywhere. I also doubt very much whether the gear centers were painted. I doubt they would take the time. I could be wrong. I personally think you have to be VERY careful about two toning this stuff, from a style point of view. It is something I myself have toyed with, but will probably reject. The beauty in these machines is in their design, and although I think the original Logan blue/grey is very handsome, it is largely so because of the subtle and complex nature of the hue. No offense to anyone, but I think the bright red stuff is really garish. If I were to try it, it would be with a very subtle contrast, like a grey that was a shade or two lighter than the original. Perhaps a VERY deep blue-hued maroon. Otherwise, it starts looking tacky pretty quickly. Just my personal opinion.


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## stevecmo

You're making great progress!

I see you got the compound apart.  Did you do anything special?

I like Evaporust.  For those shallow pockets I would give it a liberal coat of Evaporust, let it sit till I got antsy, then hit it with a stiff wire brush (hand brush).  Sometimes you can take an awl or similar and just pick / scratch around in it and you'll get a lot of the big stuff loose.  I wouldn't seat it too much.  I assume you're going to prime before finish paint?

The best method I've found for cleaning lead screws is with a piece of fuzzy yarn.  You can just saw it back and forth in the grooves and it will clean and shine.  If you have another lathe you can mount the screw in the lathe and get it done in no time.  Works great.

The original Logans had no two tone paint - all one color, and the sprockets you refer to were not painted.  I think the sprockets look good if you paint the inside cast portion.  Personally I don't like the two tone paint jobs.  My approach was to leave anything that your hands touch (levers, wheels, knobs, etc.) bare metal and try to polish them up as best I can.  If you use your machine those pieces will not rust.  They will pick up oils from your hands as you use them.

Most guys paint their chip pans 100%.  I chose to only paint the bottom and sides and leave the top bare metal.  I spent quite a bit of time cleaning the top so it looked decent.  Seems a shame to paint a surface that you're constantly throwing a wrench or chuck key or other tool onto.  I'm happy with it and I think it looks good.  Just FYI.

To my knowledge all of the lead screw and halve nuts are bronze, but maybe some models were different, can't say.

Hope that helps.

Steve


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## mjhenks

Thank you for the feedback and info.  

Here is the Logan tag.  My shade of red is not totally accurate but I am OK with that.  I may go pick out the paint from the "400" as I am sure that was stamped in after things were painted.  Will see.  Also the corners where the drive nails go of course are bent down but will be covered by the nails.




Will weigh accent colors and let you all know what I choose.  

I know I will have to replace my cross nut so will figure out what is correct.  If metal was I bet I will have a hard time finding a good one.  Also, the Logan 400 did not have the fancy stand like the 200.  What I have is a galvanized sheet metal pan that my grandfather bent and brazed together.  It will be getting a goat of paint as it is otherwise unattractive.

I was wondering how many parts are common.  I would think as many as possible.  If I had the parts book for the 200 I could probably tell.  From pictures I think the 9B-28 is VERY close to the 400.  In fact that is where I am trying to get a QCGB from to adapt.  I am also getting info from a 10" as so far I think it is adaptable too.  If I find that the adaptation is possible i will document that process as well.   I could not help but wonder if a powered cross could be adapted but honestly I do not see a huge need for one on my lathe.  

Today I will tackle the tail stock and I think that will be all for prepping. 

 Will Figure out what I can easily do to get the rust out of the few parts that show it.  Wish I had room for a blaster.    I do plan to prime any parts that have bare metal.  Many of them still have a good layer if factory grey on them as I did not strip totally down to bare metal.  Will prime what makes sense and paint it all.


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## mjhenks

Steve,

The compound came apart by removing the collar that the dial sits against.  

It is left hand thread.  It has a hole for a pin to try and get it off but neither of mine were going anywhere.  (There is one on the saddle as well)  I had to vice grip it off with a rag to protect the parts.  I ended up marking it a little but nothing bad.  Once that was out the whole  thing can be unscrewed from the nut.  The nut is pressed into the housing.


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## Redlineman

Hey;

Your tag looks a lot better than mine. Yes, the red is quite dark, but it looks better than old and crappy. I forgot about Evapo Rust. Works ok for most stuff. My 200 is a pretty early example, and both the cross and compound nuts are cast. I'd like to have the skill to make new ones... some day. I'd like to paint the hubs of my change gears a slightly contrasting color. A slightly lighter gray, perhaps. We'll see. There is enough of my lathe still apart that I'd be glad to measure things for you. It would be good to have some sort of a database on which parts are shared by various models, and there has been consistent if occasional talk of it elsewhere. Let me know.

If anyone had the Woodruff key from their tailstock quill handy for a measurement, I'd appreciate it. I manage to lose mine! :angry:

Think I'll go and see about starting to assemble the saddle. Part of me thinks it would be a good idea to scrape it in a little, but the other part says Git'r Dun!


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## hvontres

Redlineman said:


> Hey;
> 
> Your tag looks a lot better than mine. Yes, the red is quite dark, but it looks better than old and crappy. I forgot about Evapo Rust. Works ok for most stuff. My 200 is a pretty early example, and both the cross and compound nuts are cast. I'd like to have the skill to make new ones... some day. I'd like to paint the hubs of my change gears a slightly contrasting color. A slightly lighter gray, perhaps. We'll see. There is enough of my lathe still apart that I'd be glad to measure things for you. It would be good to have some sort of a database on which parts are shared by various models, and there has been consistent if occasional talk of it elsewhere. Let me know.
> 
> If anyone had the Woodruff key from their tailstock quill handy for a measurement, I'd appreciate it. I manage to lose mine! :angry:
> 
> Think I'll go and see about starting to assemble the saddle. Part of me thinks it would be a good idea to scrape it in a little, but the other part says Git'r Dun!



What are the dimensions of the Keyway in the shaft? The Machinists Handbook has all the standard Woodruf keys listed in there. I'd be happy to look it up for you. Try to get the widtch and the depth of the pocket. An estimate of the length should help estimating as well.


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## Redlineman

hvontres said:


> What are the dimensions of the Keyway in the shaft? The Machinists Handbook has all the standard Woodruf keys listed in there. I'd be happy to look it up for you. Try to get the widtch and the depth of the pocket. An estimate of the length should help estimating as well.


Thanks;

I will PM you.


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## mjhenks

Quick update.

Stripped down the tail stock yesterday.  A few surprises.  

-  There is a set-screw midway up the plunger that goes in and out.  Could not, no matter what remove it from the outside.  Had to drive it into the inside to remove it.  Weird.  Not sure why.  Any insite there?

-  The ACME screw would not come out of the plunger.  Again no matter what I did it gets to the end of travel and stops.  Could not see anything that would keep in in place.  Any ideas?

Tried a little Navel jelly on the gear cover.  Worked well.  I think I will try that to get rid of the light rust and then prime the parts right away.  Should be good enough.  I hope the next update is either showing primer going on or bearings arriving.


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## mjhenks

Baby Seal Black is here and looking good.  Almost an exact match.




Painting the back side of a few parts and non-critical areas to see how it flows.  Not a lot of time this next week so it may be a while before a lot of grey parts appear.  

Will order replacement bushings tomorrow and start making a new jack shaft.

On another note I thought I had a lead on a logan Quick Change Gear Box with lead screw.  Did not pan out.  Oh well.


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## mjhenks

More painting progress.









Have replacement bushings for the jackshaft as well.  Still waiting for bearings.

Amazing how different the color in these pictures look.  The bed is the closest to real as far as color goes.

Paint is drying slow so i am taking my time.  All of these are painted on the inside or opposite side only except the tail stock.


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## mjhenks

Update on what i have been doing.

Painting....  Most of the parts are painted but taking a long time to dry.  Not been able to get them into the sun at all so they are stuck in the garage.

Bearings have not shipped.  They are waiting for the drive nails it arrive.

Rebuild my 3-jaw chuck.  Basically took it apart, cleaned and re-lubricated it.  Looks pretty now.

Looked into scraping my bed ways.  Decided that was not going to happen so i took a flat file and cleaned up all of the surfaces.  There were lots of dings on the non-used surfaces.  I then did work on the surfaces that matter.  They all cleaned up really well.  Nice and flat and alot smoother.  I am happy with the results.







Also spent some time polishing the handles.

Making progress although not as fast as i would like.....


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## Redlineman

Not to worry;

Fast progress is less satisfying.


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## mjhenks

Got my pan painted yesterday so today I could not help but place a few parts together and see how it looks.




Looking good to me.

Most of the parts are now painted.  I have decided to paint all of my gear centers an accent color.  Something lighter then the rest of it but not totally different.  Will mix some lighter grey with this grey to get something I like.  

Starting to put some parts back together.  Wish I had made better notes or taken better pictures.  I have the factory parts book with exploded view to help me and I had bagged all the parts with each assembly but it sure seems like I am missing something.

Going to be fun.

Oh ya.  With my freshly filed ways the saddle and tail stock slide VERY NICE....


----------



## mjhenks

Need some assistance.

- Anyone what bolts are used to mount the cast foot risers to the bed?  I cannot locate them right now.

- Anyone have a head stock cover pivot pin they can measure for me?  I found a picture on ebay of one.  All I have are bolts.  Looks like a shoulder bolt that has had the head turned down and slotted.  




Still waiting for my bearings.....  Found a few more pieces to paint.


----------



## stevecmo

I'lll be in my shop later today and can take some measurements.  Hope you're not in a big hurry.

Steve


----------



## stevecmo

The bolts for the feet to bed are 3/8"-16 x 1 1/4" long.

Those hinge pins are special.  You are correct with your description.  It could probably be made from a bolt.  The nut, which goes on the inside, is a 5/16"-18.  I can't get close enough to measure the pin end diameter but it since you have the bracket off you can measure the diameter of the hole.  I'm assuming that end is larger, maybe 3/8" or 7/16" to form the shoulder.  You are correct that there is a slot in the end opposite the threads so the nut can be tightened.  

Hope that helps.

Steve


----------



## mjhenks

Thank you Steve.

That is the info i need.  The pivots should not be a big deal to make.  

Matthew


----------



## AR1911

Matt, 

    I am at about the same place you are on a 9B28-1.  Everything so far looks identical. Following your rebuild with interest.




Redlineman, I am in need of a spindle. You mentioned a spare headstock. Do you have a spindle for sale?

Rex B


----------



## Redlineman

Rex;

I was previously not aware of this, but I can see by the pictures here that a 400 and 200 spindles are not the same, so mine would not work. I can see that the 400 spindle is splined, I assume to fix the drive gear on the end, where the 200 is keyed. It is possible that if all other parameters were the same, that a 200 spindle and drive gear/key might work, but I'm not sure.

If you wanted to do everyone in the Logan/MW community a good service, one of you fellows might like to do some measuring and documenting of the 400 spindle and do a drawing like I did (posted to my build thread). Or, if you provided the specs, I would be happy to do the drawing.


----------



## mjhenks

Rex,

Nice work.  I am finding out that the 9B and 400 are very similar.

I  had posted in another thread about my Crossfeed nut.  Thought it was a  1/2-10 Left hand.  Turns out it is a 7/16-10 left hand and they are  quite difficult to locate.  Found a finish tap on Ebay  and am talking to www.tracyTools.com in the UK as they list it.

Of course i will have to balance this with buying one from Logan.  I think they are ~$75.

More  painting last night.  Was able to mix the lighter grey to accent the  gears and painted them all up.  Have another batch of parts to clean up  which is the plan for tonight.

Confirmed that my bearings are in the mail so a few more days and i can tackle the spindle.

Picked up some shoulder bolts to make new top cover pivots today and my replacement riser bolts.


----------



## AR1911

Redlineman said:


> Rex;
> 
> I was previously not aware of this, but I can see by the pictures here that a 400 and 200 spindles are not the same, so mine would not work. I can see that the 400 spindle is splined, I assume to fix the drive gear on the end, where the 200 is keyed. It is possible that if all other parameters were the same, that a 200 spindle and drive gear/key might work, but I'm not sure.
> 
> If you wanted to do everyone in the Logan/MW community a good service, one of you fellows might like to do some measuring and documenting of the 400 spindle and do a drawing like I did (posted to my build thread). Or, if you provided the specs, I would be happy to do the drawing.



i don't have  400, I have a 9B28-1. I think I can use a 400 spindle, not a 200

- - - Updated - - -

I considered painting gears a contrasting color. I want to see how yours look


----------



## mjhenks

I'll draw up the spindle and post it


----------



## Redlineman

Psssshhh...

Never even heard of that model. They have so many different models - with subtle little differences between them - it's almost farcical. Makes my head spin! You just know that these are parts bin machines, each borrowing from this or that "other model." There is just very little info on exactly WHAT is the same between them. We're working on that, a bit.


----------



## mjhenks

Small update.

Painted all my gears with the accent grey.  This is a custom mix grey.  I like how it looks. First picture without flash.  Second with.






Made a new jack shaft.  Turned out nice.  Used 303SS and put flats where they should have been in the first place.  Also installed new bushings in the holder.




Last update is i polished up my aluminum pulleys.  The two in the jack shaft and the one in the headstock.  Not polished to a high shine but got most of the crud off and made them a little nicer.  They are too beat up to try and go super shiny.  
Headstock pulley below.  The other two are getting some accent paint.  Will post them later.




Came up with a few questions i cannot locate the answer to.  Anyone know:



It looks like there is a taper adapter in my spindle that could be knocked out from the back.  Afraid to just try to get it out for fear of damaging something.  Does it come out? 


What is the purpose on the tail stock of the knob adjacent to the lock handle.  (LB-263)  Mine is missing but I have not “missed” it. 
 


There is a tapped hole in the side of the apron assembly.  Will that accommodate a thread dial?  Sure looks like it will. 
 


Does the tailstock screw come out of the tailstock spindle?  I removed the set screw midway on the spindle but the screw will not back out.  It stops dead. 
 


Is the 9B just and updated 400?  Seems VERY similar but with the option of QCGB and Power crossfeed. 
 


How about 400 vs. 1400.  Again they seem similar. 

Matthew


----------



## stevecmo

Not sure I can be a whole lot of help but........

If there is something "inside" your spindle, it should come out with a little persuasion.  I believe there were some adapters for different tapers.  My  Logan is a little weird in that is has a straight 1" bore - no taper.  Scott Logan said they did make some that way as customer requests.

On the tail stock, you are probably referring to the "dauber".  There's no knob.  It should just be a  blind hole in the top of the tail stock.  The dauber was just a piece of brass with a taper on the end that goes in the hole and a round knob on top.  In the "old days" you would pour a little white lead in the hole and use the dauber to put a little dab on the tail stock center when turning between centers.

Yes, the tapped hole on the right hand side of the apron is for a thread dial.

The tail stock screw does come out.  Have you removed the nut on the back (handle) end?  

I can't help with the different model numbers other than what is shown here: http://www.lathe.com/models.htm

Steve


----------



## mjhenks

Here is a picture of the possible adapter in my spindle.  




Does the smaller diameter protruding out form the nose come out?  Is it an adapter?  Seams like it is.

Matthew


----------



## stevecmo

I would say it is an adapter and should come out.  What are the ID and OD of that piece?

- - - Updated - - -

This is from the Logan FAQ's:

[h=3]*2.3.   *[FONT=&quot]How can I add collets to this lathe?  Which collets fit this lathe?[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][/h]   2.3..          [FONT=&quot]Logan[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 11” and larger lathes came with a 2¼ - 8, L-00, L-0, D1-3 or D1-4 spindle noses.  Logan supplied collet adapters for this spindle that fit 475 (also known as 5C) collets.  The 5C collet is a very common size and is available in round sizes up to 1 1/16” and also in square and hex sizes.  Decent quality imported round 5C collets sell for under $7 each and even less in sets. 

Logan 9” and 10” lathes came with a 1½ - 8 spindle nose.   Logan originally supplied collet adapters for this spindle that fit AC-30 (3AT) draw-in collets and AC-50 (W&S #1) collets.  These are more limiting and less available than 5C collets, but equally precise and convenient.

You may be able to find used collet adapters to fit a Logan lathe at used machinery dealers.  You can also make your own collet adapter.  There were quite a few articles published in Home Shop Machinist and Machinist’s Workshop describing how to make a collet closer.  Most show how to make a precision adapter that fits into the spindle nose and accepts a draw-in collet.  With a draw-in collet adapter, a 10” Logan is limited to collets with a ½” bore, such as the 3AT collet.  Larger lathes can accept 5C collets.

One article from 2004 shows how to make a collet adapter that fits over the spindle nose.  This is a much more advanced project.  Over-the-nose collet adapters allow a 10” Logan lathe to accept 5C collets because they don’t use the critical room inside the spindle nose.

You can buy new draw-in collet adapters made by Royal or new over-the-nose collet adapters made by Bison or Sjogren from Logan Actuator or other dealers.

The FAQ's can be found here: http://www.lathe.com/faq/index.html

Hope that helps.

Steve
[/FONT]


----------



## Redlineman

Hey Matt;

It looks like an adapter in there. I'd just give it a few raps from the back side to see if it would pop out. Nothing to aggressive, just sharp solid taps. The guys on the list don't know your spindle is out, and so you can get a little more aggressive because the bearings are not an issue. Pulling is definitely in order if it does not come out with a few regular ball pein shots. You might also heat the spindle a tad to help expand it. Do support the spindle from the bearing shoulder, and very thoroughly, just in case you were inclined to rest it on the threaded end. I'll assume you are smarter than that. Nothing so far has shown me you aren't )

Logan will sell you a new dauber if you want that ultra original look. There was white lead down deep in the hole on mine when I cleaned it out.

I don't remember doing anything special to get my TS quill/screw apart. Remove the nut, handwheel, and the key. As far as I remember, the screw just came out, perhaps with only a tap.

Don't know for sure, but on the 200 the dial goes where that set screw is in the end of the saddle pictured below. Yet another item my lathe is missing.


----------



## mjhenks

Mystery on the adapter solved.  With a little persuasion it popped out.  No wonder i always thought the center of the spindle was a tad small.  Could never pass anything very large through.  Now i have a good 3/4" diameter in there instead of 1/2".

FYI the OD at the nose was .941 & ID .685".  Tail OD is .797 and ID is .556.  It is about 2.5" long.


----------



## John Hasler

mjhenks said:


> Mystery on the adapter solved.  With a little persuasion it popped out.  No wonder i always thought the center of the spindle was a tad small.  Could never pass anything very large through.  Now i have a good 3/4" diameter in there instead of 1/2".
> 
> FYI the OD at the nose was .941 & ID .685".  Tail OD is .797 and ID is .556.  It is about 2.5" long.



Sounds like an MT3 to MT2 reducer.


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## mjhenks

Christmas was today.  My spindle bearings arrived.

Main Bearing.  Came with snap ring.  





Back bearing





I must say they are both smooth as silk.  Glad i did this as while my old bearings would have worked these are going to be really nice and smooth.

Otherwise i am finished painting accent colors and bolted the legs to the main casting.  Now that the bearings are here i can start working on the headstock.  

I also got the crossfeed gib re-ground  How important are the divots for the gib screws?  After ground they are a bit light.  Not sure the best way to put them back in there.


----------



## mjhenks

Spare time work.

3D of Logan 400 spindle done.  Print next.


----------



## mjhenks

Did some preliminary assembly last night.  




What do you all use to keep the bare metal parts from rusting again?  I live near the ocean and this lathe will not be used. (maybe a few times a month)  Besides coating everything with oil and covering the lathe what other tricks are out there?  Really questioning if i should have all the hardware plated.  that would leave just the gears and ways unprotected which oil should solve.

OK.....

Getting ready to put the spindle back together.  Man how i wish i took  better notes and pictures. I was relying on the factory parts book as my  guide but when it comes to the spindle it is not detailed enough.  Thought there was a cross section in there but it is the QCGB.

So, the spindle assembly.  Lets figure this out step by step.  




It is clear that bearing 0674 goes into the headstock with the clip facing out.  That bearing therefor has to press onto the spindle first. Don't forget to only press on the inner race.  Otherwise you will damage the bearing

 The question is the grease seal. (LA-672)  i think it presses to the outside of the nose of the spindle.  (Just behind the chuck thread)  How far does it go on and i think this can only go on after the spindle is installed and the nose bearing cover is installed. (LB-3)




Install the rear bearing "C" clip. (0931)

After the nose bearing is installed, pass the spindle through the headstock front and slide on the following in this order:
Bull gear assy. (LB-4)
Spindle Pulley. (LB-5)
Belt. (LB-6)
Spindle Gear. (LB-10)
Collar. (LB-11)  (Leave set screw loose)
Spacer. (LB-17)
Belleville Washer #1.  Concave toward nose bearing.  (LB-16)
Belleville Washer #2.  Concave toward tail bearing.  (LB-16)

Press or otherwise install the nose bearing into the housing and install the nose bearing cover and screws.  I expect this to be a transition or slip fit.  (Now comes the grease seal????)

Next is the tail bearing.  bearings should not be double pressed.  Since there is a take-up nut coming next the bearing cannot press to the shaft but could press to the housing.  That would be interesting but since i did not press this bearing off i expect this to be a double slip system. 

Once the bearing is installed then comes the Take-up nut. (LB-12)  The million dollar question how much torque the take-up nut requires.

The other question is how tight should the belt be?  I have always thought the belt was too tight.  I realize you can adjust the through on the motor tensioner but in general how tight should the belt be?  I have seen them tight and what i would consider loose.  How much up/down should a properly tentioned belt move?  (One side)

Recap...

Where did i go wrong in my figuring?
How do you protect your bare metal?
What is the take-up torque
How tight should the belt be?

Teaser....  The post office dropped off a couple of packages last week.  One was about 30" long and the other heavy with very dirty content....  I will more than likely start a new thread for that.....

Matthew


----------



## Redlineman

Got a couple minutes at lunch. My experience is with the 200, so there may be some difference in how a 400 goes together. It is my assumption that there is NOT a great difference, at least in terms of process.

<<What do you all use to keep the bare metal parts from rusting again?>>

Oil is all I know. Messy, but it works. coat it good when not in use, wipe it down to use it, then oil it up again afterwards.

<<That bearing therefor has to press onto the spindle first. Don't forget to only press on the inner race.  Otherwise you will damage the bearing>>

The bearing should be a close hand slip fit onto the spindle AFAIK. if it is not you need to polish the spindle a bit. The bearings should be a slight interference fit into the headstock. You should not have to press them in, although that certainly does not hurt. I have removed & installed mine numerous times with nothing more than a rawhide mallet that weighs VERY little.

<The question is the grease seal. (LA-672)  i think it presses to the outside of the nose of the spindle.  (Just behind the chuck thread)  How far does it go on and i think this can only go on after the spindle is installed and the nose bearing cover is installed.>>

That is a bearing seal COVER. It goes on LAST, after the bearing cap, and basically just goes where it ends up. Tap it in until it bottoms out and there you are.

<<Next is the tail bearing.  bearings should not be double pressed.  Since there is a take-up nut coming next the bearing cannot press to the shaft but could press to the housing.  That would be interesting but since i did not press this bearing off i expect this to be a double slip system.>>

On the 200, the rear bearing goes in after all the central spindle bits, and sort of just goes where it ends up. The spacer collars that fit on either side of it will press it into its final position between them. The inner of these spacers hit a shoulder on the spindle, and the bearing and outer spacer sleeve press it all together. Things look a bit different from looking at the 400 schematic, but its hard to tell, especially without the part description. However, it should all go together by hand with little difficulty. Light tapping is all you should have to do. That's my assumption.

<<Once the bearing is installed then comes the Take-up nut. (LB-12)  The million dollar question how much torque the take-up nut requires.>>

Tight enough to stay tight enough! I'm not aware of a spec. It does NOT need to be cranked down with a pipe or anything. As long as the nut and spindle gear stay in place, it's tight enough.

<<The other question is how tight should the belt be?  I have always thought the belt was too tight.  I realize you can adjust the through on the motor tensioner but in general how tight should the belt be?  I have seen them tight and what i would consider loose.  How much up/down should a properly tentioned belt move?  (One side)>>

There are two aspects to this. Tight enough to drive is tight enough. So tight that it causes excessive bearing load or drag is too tight. It is a bit of a moving target until the new belt breaks in. Too loose can also cause belt flop which makes things shake when the belt flaps. When everything settles in and has some miles on it, tight enough not to slip easily, but not flap either, is right.


----------



## mjhenks

Thank you Redlineman.

Small update.  Motor mount assembled.  Motor is already mounted and i tested out how well the jackshaft spins.  Alot quieter now that the shaft actually fits the bushings.  I also realize that i will have to slide out the shaft to install the drive belt later on.




Also got the main bearing pressed on today and made new pivot pins for the cover.


----------



## Redlineman

Hmmm...

I've never seen a 400 closer than this thread of yours. They are obviously far different than a 200, making a lot of my advice hot air, methinks. Looks great!


----------



## Mister Ed

Redlineman said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> I've never seen a 400 closer than this thread of yours. They are obviously far different than a 200, making a lot of my advice hot air, methinks. Looks great!


Was kinda thinking the same earlier ... not the hot air part ... but the far different part. Surprised me when I saw the v-belt pullies instead of flat belt.


----------



## mjhenks

Ha.

I would rather have hot air with the caveat that the info is based on a different model then crickets.....  

It is nice to know that there is at least curiosity in what I am doing.  I have gathered that the 400 is not all that common and have yet to find a blog of someone re-building theirs so at least the next guy will have something to review.  This little adventure certainly went deeper than I expected but I am having fun.....

I wish I could re-name my thread now....  "Logan 400 total rebuild"       Oh well.

The hope for today is that I see a spindle back in the headstock.


----------



## Mister Ed

I was just commenting in my thread on steady and follower rests, about one of each on Ebay for a 9" Logan ... figured I should point it out to you. Both auctions end tomorrow and at least currently, the price and bidding has been low.


----------



## mjhenks

Mr. Ed.

Just read your thread.  Thank you for the heads up.  I keep an eye out for steady rests.  Rarely see one from an actual Logan.  Usually they are SB 9" and I am not certain that the SB and Logan are the same.  Not sure what a Follower rest would be used for so have never looked for one.  I see that one and had to ask myself...  "How is it mounted?"  Not sure what those slots at the base are for and how they work.  Keep in mind that my bed only handles about 12" of material too.....

Some good morning progress.




New pivot pins for the top cover.






Progress.  Spindle is back together and it is smooth.  So here is the learning from this.

-  The bull gear, pulley, drive gear and collar all have to go on as you slide the spindle thru.  Don't forget the woodruff key for the bull gear.
-  The main bearing is a tight fit to the housing.  (kind of expected that)  Had to tap it in with a wood mallet.
-  Don't forget the belt.
-  Once the nose bearing is in, you can slide in this order the rest of the parts through the rear bearing bore.  (Make sure the "C" clip is in there)
    1  Small spacer
    2  First Belleville washer.  Above I had this part wrong.  It only made sense if this went in concave to the rear bearing.  That way the ID presses on the small spacer.
       3  Second Belleville washer.  This one goes concave to the nose bearing.  
    4  Rear bearing.  This has to be tapped in with a wood mallet and once it gets past flush to the housing you will need a wood tap spacer.
       5  Rear lock nut.  This can be used to draw the bearing down onto the "C" clip.
    6  Main lock nut.
-  Use the back gear with the bull gear engaged to lock the spindle to tighten the lock nut.
- Install the front bearing cover.

The grease seal for the bearing is tapped in last.  It gets pressed or tapped on over the nose and is almost flush with the front bearing cover.  Last comes the chuck but that can be installed later.

When you are all done and it is done right you get this.  .0003" runout at the spindle.  Yah.....




That is all for this AM I think.  I may have more time today.  If I do I will finish the tail stock and mount the motor back to the table.  It is starting to look more like a lathe.

- - - Updated - - -

Figured out how the follower rest would mount on my 400.  There are two holes on the side of the saddle.  Cool.  I see how it would aid a floppy part now.

Matthew


----------



## Mister Ed

mjhenks said:


> Figured out how the follower rest would mount on my 400.  There are two holes on the side of the saddle.  Cool.  I see how it would aid a floppy part now.


There you go, helps keeping parts from flexing. I was turning last fall and really needed one for what I was doing at the time.

The steady I need bad, I work a replacing shafts in old farm windmills. Usually, 1" stock and that is too large to shove thru the spindle and choke up on. So, even if only to center drill for a center ... the steady would help me out.


----------



## mjhenks

I was looking at the Logan steady rest on ebay.  Something does not seem right.  He shows a scale next to it which seems to show the mount surface to center to be around 6".  It also shows the center top guide biased way down.  I believe for a true 9" that distance would be 4.5".  I have a feeling this is from a 10" or 11" that was adapted.  

I have seen other 9" units and they always seem to look really short at the mount.  I have asked for clarification on that dim as something seems off with the picture.  

Hard to tell with the follower rest.  Same seller.


Major set-back this afternoon.  About 2 months ago I rebuild a belt sander.  Somehow the old belt from that got mixed up with my lathe belts.  So....  I bought and installed a belt that was WAY too short.  Had to tear the whole headstock back apart.   Not a happy camper right now.  Oh well.....

Matthew


----------



## mjhenks

After a set-back I was able to move forward this afternoon.




Headstock is back together with the proper belt.  Bolted in place and aligned with the motor drive.  Power was applied and she spins as she should.  :thumbsup2:

Noticed that it sounds quieter too.  It used to have a pulsating mechanical noise but then again the drive shaft and associated gears are not yet installed.  

Anyways.  I am a happy camper right now.

Next up is the cross slide and saddle assembly.  One of the SB members is tapping a piece of bronze for me to make a new crossfeed nut.  Maybe I will get that this week.  

Getting closer...


----------



## Redlineman

Yeh.. so;

You did it the 2nd time with your eyes closed, right? :lmao:

Nothing lost, eh? You got better at fiddling with it, so that is good. I put mine partially together a couple of times just because I was curious and nudgey. It took me a number of tries to get everything jiggered properly anyways, even when I finally did it for real.

It's looking really good!


----------



## mjhenks

Redlineman,

I too am guilty of putting things together ahead of time to see how it goes.  The bearings I did not want to take off too many times thought.  Did not want to risk damaging them.

A little progress today.  Getting near the end.

Mounted the saddle and made felt wipers for the saddle.  Also tried to mount the apron to the saddle.  That was today's step backwards.... 
 Went to tighten the right side 3/8-16 x 1" SHCS and immediately felt the cast iron go soft.  Stripped with no pulled material so it was stripped to begin with.....




Will have to heli-coil it tomorrow.

Also took my tail stock apart again.  It is bugging me.  

If you recall a few weeks ago I asked how you get the screw (LA-146) out of the spindle.  (LA-147)  The answer was "it should just unscrew".  Well, mine does not.  
Also I asked about a 1/4-20 set screw in the side of my spindle.  Almost exactly in the center to the side of the distance marks.  It goes to no-where.  Apparently it is not factory.
I am also bothered by the fact that I can only get 2" of extension from the tail stock but it is marked out to 2.5".




Anyways.  Tried to disassembly again with no luck.  I can see (Thru the nice taped hole) that the end is buggered up.  Really buggered up.  Can't figure out how it happened though.  I measured and I would need to work the screw thru about 5/8" of the spindle to free it up.  Not going to try and I am sure I will ruin the spindle.  So...  only 2" of travel for me.

I was also making a list of the things I would like to find for my lathe.  Maybe someone out there has these laying around.

5/16-18 x 1-3/4 square head bolt.  For the saddle lock.
Original 3/4" tailstock wrench.  (Are the 9" SB or larger Logans the same?)
Original tailstock lock handle.  (Also are the 9" SB or larger Logans the same?)

I am also still on the quest to adapt a QCGB to this lathe.  I have looked at QCGB's from 9B's as well as 10 & 11".  Depending on who you read they are all similar.  One thing I noticed is that the 9B's QCGB ID tag starts with a 48 Stud Gear and the newer units start with a 72.  (See here for the newer one.  Top left number.  http://store.lathe.com/lp1785b.html)

I was talking to Logan sales about this and they made a statement that I did not follow.

"later ones for lathes that use a 36/72 tooth for the stud gear (and use a 72T gear on the input of the gearbox)"  

I believe the stud gear is the lowest gear shown below on my reversing lever.  Mine has 16 teeth but I think that can be changed.  What do they mean by 36/72?  I know what they mean by 72 to the "input of the gearbox" so are they saying the stud is 36 teeth, use 1:1 gears to get to the gearbox input which is the 72?  




Long winded tonight.  I should be slowing down a bit as I wait for my crossfeed nut.

Matthew


----------



## Mister Ed

Can't help with your questions (but I have a thought on the 36/72) .... but dang that lathe is looking nice. How did you get the polish on the gears?? Look too pretty to lube up.

By the way, that follow rest is on its way. So I'll either have one for the 10/11" lathes or will have one for sale, for a 9".


----------



## mjhenks

Thanks Mister Ed and glad to here you got the follower rest.

The gears as well as most of my parts were first cleaned with Purple Power, then soaked in Carburetor cleaner then cleaned with soap & water.  After that all non-functional surfaces were painted Baby Seal Black or my custom mix lighter shade of grey.  The functional surfaces as well as the sides of the gears were were then sanded flat using 320 grit sand paper on a flat block, buffed out with a wheel or hand filed.  Most came out nice.  I am most disappointed with the back gears.  They look bad still.  Not sure if i will try again with them.

No real progress last night.

Anyone have a 3/8-16 STI tap laying around i could borrow?  Hate to buy one for one hole....


----------



## mjhenks

Got back from Camping this weekend and i had a package waiting for me.  I have a new friend in the South Bend 9" community who has access to a 7/16-10 Left Hand ACME tap.  I sent off three pieces of Bronze round stock to be tapped and received them over the weekend.  This is the last missing part aside from the "wants list" i have.

Thank you South Bend Community.  The fit to the screw was perfect.

I sent off round stock to make it easier to tap.  Last night i started to square up the three pieces.  Next step is to indicate in the rod and cut the bottom accurately to the shaft.  Then cut the sides at the bottom to fit where it mounts.  The side tops and top are pretty much cosmetic.




Hope to have one of these installed by the end of the week.

Matthew


----------



## mjhenks

Cross feed  nuts are complete.




The one on the far right has some one-off customization.  One must remember to tighten the vice.....  :banghead:

Will try and install tonight to confirm fit and function.


----------



## Mister Ed

They look like they should work fine ... even the customized one, LOL.


----------



## mjhenks

Unfortunately the tapped hole to mount it is not deep enough

Will try again tomorrow


----------



## mjhenks

Success.  I now have a saddle that is smooth with no back-lash.  Nice.:allgood:




Next step is the compound.  I am missing a set screw for that.  I am also still trying to source a 3/8-16 STI tap to repair the apron.  Just do not want to spend $12 for a tap I will use once....


So now some bad new.  I have a noise in my head stock that does not sound good.  It is speed dependent.  It is coming from the left side or the smaller bearing area.  It sounds like something metallic rubbing.

Upon closer inspection I can see that the Bellville spring washer is spinning against the "C" clip.  

Guess I know it is coming apart again so I can figure out why.  :think1:

Matthew


----------



## Mister Ed

It is looking very nice!! However, I was hoping at this point to see a write up on putting a big fat readable dial on it.:thinking: Maybe even with 200 graduations ... hint, hint.


----------



## mjhenks

Mr. Ed.

That would be spending more $$.  I know what you mean though.  The reality of the matter is that my lathe does not get a lot of use.  It is a nice tool to have around but if I use it a few times a month that is a lot.  Alas, upgrading the dial, unless it fell into my lap was not on the list of things to do.

So, I found the source of the noise and it is fixed.  I am getting good at taking the spindle apart.  (Probably not something I should brag about)

The bellville spring washers were in backwards.  They were pushing against nothing and hence were spinning.  :*****slap2:

Once reversed and applying a load to the bearings I could tell the difference as I tightened the lock nut.  Instead of just locking down now there was pre-load.  All is good.

Learned a trick tonight.  How do you get the spindle out without removing the front bearing?  The woodruff key gets in the way.  I

- take off the lock nut.
- Loosen the set- screw retainer for the smaller gear
- Keep the front bearing cover in place but remove the chuck.
- Tap the spindle from the rear.  Keep your eye on the bull gear.  As it hits the inside edge of the head stock slide it, the pulley and small gear towards to small bearing.  This will reveal the spindle.
- Keep an eye out for the bull gear woodruff key as you tap.
- At some point, the rear of the spindle will slide out of the rear bearing.  The spacer and lock collar will fall off.  Keep tapping and watching the woodruff key.
- Once the bull gear just clears the bull gear stop tapping.  Push the bull gear, pulley and small gear all the way to the left.
- Take a pair of long nose pliers and grap the woodruff key.  Pull it out of the spindle.  You will have to rotate it 90 degrees to get it out from between the bull gear and head stock.
- Now you can tap the spindle out farther to remove it, the bull gear, pulley and small gear.

Assembly is the reverse. 

Saved me some time tonight.  

Matthew


----------



## Redlineman

Ha!

So the Great Belleville Fiasco just makes you like everyone else, mate. Goes back to my standing advice to take more pictures and notes than you think rational. So many details thought trivial will loom large when it comes time to re-install stuff. It is also common folly to think you'll remember...

I'm envious of your compound nut. You're going to force me to buy one, I can see. So, you have had success with a new nut on the old screw? This obviously suggests the screws are the stronger of the two. You do not notice any drag from a worn section of screw, eh? Hmmmm....

On your stripped hole, if possible, just drill and tap to the next convenient size up and move on. It may be a bit sacrilegious to some, but it will work just fine and no one will know but you.


----------



## mjhenks

Redlineman,

The new nut fits great on the original shaft.  I did notice more yaw & pitch motion when installing the shaft into the nut free than i thought i should have but the axial lash is gone.  I used have probably .020" lash.  

I did investigate what i would do if i had to replace the screw as well.  Likely i was going to buy some left hand ACME threaded rod and splice it into the old shaft.  Glad i did not have to tackle that.

As for the stripped hole.  I here you.  I went to get a longer bolt because there were a couple of good threads at the bottom of the hole but as soon as i engaged those threads they let go too.  I likely will just buy the $12 tap....

Mr. Ed.  Curse you.  )
I found myself looking on Ebay this AM for a larger dial for the crossfeed.  Now i am compelled to ask what you all have "upgraded to".

Matthew


----------



## Mister Ed

mjhenks said:


> Mr. Ed.  Curse you.  )
> I found myself looking on Ebay this AM for a larger dial for the crossfeed.  Now i am compelled to ask what you all have "upgraded to".
> 
> Matthew


LMBO!! I still have original dials on my 10". I have seen a couple of write-ups on making new ones for the Logan ... will have to look. I'm not real good at drawing and planning things out like that ... once I have a plan to work off, I do OK. I'm also not sure on my abilities (and equipment) to be able to mark accurate graduations on a dial, if I made one.


----------



## mjhenks

Hvontres & I were talking about how we could make the dials and accurately index for the lines.  Last thing i need right now is another side project so that will have to wait.  Will look at a spin jig and a mill with stamping the numbers or see if we could use a laser marker.  A project for another day.

The only update i have is that a STI tap arrived on Saturday.  I can move on with the apron.


----------



## Mister Ed

mjhenks said:


> Hvontres & I were talking about how we could make the dials and accurately index for the lines.  Last thing i need right now is another side project so that will have to wait.  Will look at a spin jig and a mill with stamping the numbers or see if we could use a laser marker.  A project for another day.
> 
> The only update i have is that a STI tap arrived on Saturday.  I can move on with the apron.



Well was home with "the crud" today, so I pulled my cross feed apart. I have some ideas, but will probably end up purchasing the dials. Right now I'm trying to decide how to extend my crossfeed screw. I do not want to loose any working capacity due to the cross slide hitting the bigger dial.


----------



## Redlineman

Hey guys;

Take a look at Tom's Techniques on the web, or his video series on YouTube. Beyond being a cracker jack machinist and offering tons of great advice, he recently made a carriage stop micrometer, and discusses creating the graduations and the stamping at length. A larger x-feed dial is definitely something I would be interested in, but I too doubt my ability to create one that is accurate enough. I have a mill and a rotary table, but not a dividing head.


----------



## mjhenks

Re-drilled and tapped the apron mount bolt threads yesterday.  Cast iron is so much fun to work with.  )

I do not have the proper instal tool for the insert.  Used a 10mm one to get things started but today i think i will need to make a insert tool from a 3/8-16 bolt.  I think i will have it all done by tomorrow and the apron installed.  

That is a good thing as i need the apron to make progress on the Quick Change Gear Box adaptation i am doing.


----------



## mjhenks

Apron installed.  All is good.




At this point, aside from aligning the head stock and tail stock this part of the project is more or less done.  There are parts that are off the lathe right now but that is to accommodate the QCGB i am adapting.

I will post again once i get that done and things aligned.


----------



## mjhenks

If you have not been following my other thread this little lathe has undergone its surgery to accept a Logan 9B QCGB and came out looking good.

Last night i spend some time dialing in the tail stock.  I had not centered it to the spindle when i started on the gear box project.




Using a 12" piece of aluminum i put a center into one end and proceeded to turn the OD.  I made some steps in the OD so that i would just be adjusting things using 2 or 3 small areas and not the entire length.  That saved some time.  Over the course of an hour i fine tuned the tail stock so i was able to measure the near and far end to a few tenths of each other.  Probably .0003".  That is good enough for me right now.  

I also noticed that as i turned down the diameter using the new gear box that i would get hick-ups in the chips as it went along the length of travel.  

I think i have traced it to my sloppy apron rack & pinion system. I did not re-bush either  bores in the apron for the two rack & pinion shafts. (Red below)  I should have.




The actual shafts may also have issues too.  Hmm...  

How well should the pinion gear should engage the rack???

Basically, each time the handle comes over the top if flops and again as  it goes through the bottom.  All the slop in this system causes the half nut to momentarily  jump or use up the lash on the nut.  This also may be an indicator that my half nut is  worn out.

Need some advice here What do you guys think?


----------



## mjhenks

Nothing super exciting but i started the process of re-bushing my apron last night.  Indicated the very oval hole the best i could.  Drilled out the cast iron to 23/32" and then bored out the rest of the way to .7495".  Pressed in the bushing.  Shown below it is almost all the way in. 




The other exciting progress is i finally painted the lock handle for my tail stock.  Anyone know if the 5/16-18 screw that goes into this is just a long piece of all thread?  Seems like it is.  What length?  I know i can figure that out but why not ask....




I am currently searching for a power apron from a 9B.  That is the ultimate goal right now.  Till then we will repair this one and wait.

That is all.


----------



## mjhenks

Steeping forward to only wonder and step back again.




Got bushing #1 installed....or so i thought. turns out i set my bore depth wrong and had a ledge at the bottom which is why i could not get the bushing to press all the way down.   "It's OK" i said.   It was only 1/8" out of 1-1/4".  Still plenty of engagement for the shaft.  Will mill the top off.

Second bushing went alot better.  Second bushing i am happy with.  Nice and tight. 

(Sometimes i hate working at home at night as i am always rushed.  Rushed = mistakes.)

Went back to bushing #1.  I took it all the way out as i was not happy with how it was recovering from my 1/8" error.  Interesting when you drill out one of these bushings.  It just totally exploded as i drilled through it.  

Second attempt went better and i was happy until i test fit the shaft.  It just does not feel any better than before.  Wobble is still there. I bored the hole ~.001" larger than the shaft.  That is i was stepping the boring head out and once i could get the shaft to go into the bore with some force i went .001" more.  (I do not have any ID bore gauges)

Hmmm....:thinking:

- - - Updated - - -

Oh yes. Half nut rebuild time so it is back apart again so i can find someone to re-build it.  

I am not going to try and do this myself.

3/4-8 ACME thread.   The tap is crazy expensive and i am not sure how to get the new brass to stick into the old housing and for that matter i am not sure how the process would go either.

Maybe:

- Build jig to mount half nut so the threads are centered.
- Bore old threads out.
- somehow afix a piece of brass into the unit.
- Drill and tap for ACME threads
- Slice in half.
- Mill faces flat
- Deburr.

Something like that....


----------



## Redlineman

Ha!

Sounds like the same old story. My working lathe is so old and loose that hitting targets takes extreme patience, and unfortunately, LUCK. The dials are virtually useless. I eek my way along, tiny cut after tiny cut, working toward a fit, reach the point where I say, "ah... just one more", and bam... too much!

I empathize.


----------



## rickw55

*Re: Logan 400.  Headstock.-Steady rests*



mjhenks said:


> I was looking at the Logan steady rest on ebay.  Something does not seem right.  He shows a scale next to it which seems to show the mount surface to center to be around 6".  It also shows the center top guide biased way down.  I believe for a true 9" that distance would be 4.5".  I have a feeling this is from a 10" or 11" that was adapted.
> 
> I have seen other 9" units and they always seem to look really short at the mount.  I have asked for clarification on that dim as something seems off with the picture.
> 
> Hard to tell with the follower rest.  Same seller.
> 
> 
> Matthew



I have a Logan model 200.It came with a home-made steady rest made from 1.4" plate.
I've since acquired a steady rest from a South Bend 9" lathe. It WILL fit the ways of my Logan, EXCEPT that it is 1/2" too low. It could be use that way, with some loss of capacity.I plan on making a 1/2" thick spacer to go underneath the South Bend steady rest. That will involve machining two "V" slots for the V-way on opposite sides of the spacer. I'll post pictures in a separate thread when I get it done.
Rick W


----------



## mjhenks

Time for an update even though i have not yet solved the problem.  

So i believe the fundamental problem is that my shafts are double tapered.  Meaning they are smaller on the ends then the center by at least .001".  That is causing the rock.  My plan right now is to touch up the shafts so they are consistent in diameter but of course undersized.  Then bore new bushing undersize.  That will work fine as i am taking off about .02 on the ID of the bushing anyways.  Likely will not get to that till some time in late June as i am traveling for work.


:whiteflag:
As for steady rest.  I have located a Atlas 9" x 54" lathe that is complete with tooling, chucks, follower rest & steady rest.  Has a QCGB already as well.  I am done with this Logan.  Going to put it up on Craigslist for free this weekend and switch to Atlas.  Just tired of the fight.
   :whiteflag:




:roflmao:
I crack myself up.  I did locate a Atlas 9x54 that i will be getting a steady rest from so that search is over and my Logan is staying right where it is.

Matthew


----------



## mjhenks

Turned both apron shafts last week.  Confirmed that they were not round nor the same diameter in the process.  They are now true and about .005" smaller in diameter.  I had to use a small parting tool to get into the part.  Oh well.  It worked.  Also for the drive gear i had to clamp on the OD of the gear.  Worked fine.




I also have new bushings for the apron.  Might get to it this week.  Otherwise life is slowing this project down a bit and it will be mid June before i get back to it.

I also re-painted my Logan badge as well with a better shade of red.  Will post next time.


----------



## Redlineman

Hey;

Do you think the discrepancies in your shafts were from wear, or were they just not very good to begin with? I'm very interested in your etching project. I have seen it done before in other avocations. I'd love to have a new plate for my 200 resto.


----------



## mjhenks

Re-painted Acid Etched ID tags.

Original Logan 400 Tag repainted.




Original 9B QCBG ID plate.  




Replacement QCBG ID plate that i made.  Was not totally happy with paint job.  It is better now and will be the one i use on the machine.




Another attempt at a new ID plate.  This one over-etched and became "blury".  Not rolled yet.  Very usable and actually a nice image transfer.



Will i try another one????  Just no time right now.  We will see.  I feel like i have the process down.  If i watch the acid etch process close maybe i can nail one 100%.


----------



## mjhenks

New nuts, Od-de-apron and a side show.


Just returned from overseas.  Good to be home. 

 My apron rebuild is going....  well lousy.  I had to turn down my apron shafts about .005" to remove some taper.  No big deal as the bushings I had installed needed at least .020" removed.   OIK.  Turn the shafts, put another new set of bushings in and re-bore them to the new size.   bust..... 

 These bushings have a smaller OD so they did not press as much,  The ID is too big.  Man.......  Going to have to make my own bushings.  Was hoping to avoid that.  So here she sits with no Apron still....




Got my rebuilt half nuts while I was gone.  Cool. 

 I am trying to figure out how these were made. I  cannot see a glue line for the new brass and the finish is a but rough.  Rougher than I had expected.   After closer look I can not help but believe the new brass may have been casted into the original cast iron holder after the old thread was removed.  Of course then re-tapped.  Not sure if that would make sense but there are fine cracks and voids in the finish. Just when you machine a porous casting. Not sure I like that right now.  Any thoughts???







Last a side project for the mill.  I know, nothing to do with the logan but...  A Phase II 6" rotary table.  Unfortunately it was damaged in shipping so I have to replace a lock down tab and a knob.  Oh well....


----------



## mjhenks

Slow progress.  Turning new bronze bushings for the apron.  The OD is done.  ID soon.




In the meantime i was able to pick up a steady rest and a collet draw bar set.  (collet adapter, collets and adapter release and wrench)  Have to make a spacer for the draw bar but no big deal.  Will post pictures when i can.


----------



## mjhenks

Making slow progress.  Both bushing for the apron hand wheel are turned to the right OD.  One is turned to the right ID.  One to go.


----------



## mjhenks

Almost have all the options I want for my lathe rounded up.

Here is my collet draw bar set-up.  Needs a sleeve adapter still but otherwise complete minus one or two collet sizes.  Have extras as well.



An internal bore gripping set.




9" steady rest.  Missing the lock down nut but the a deal I could not pass up.




I think the only two options I am still looking for but am not sure how important they are would be a follower rest and power cross slide.  

If I could only get the apron back together now.....


----------



## wa5cab

MJ,

Are the collets 3C or 3AT?  I don't have any 3C extras but have quite a few extra used 3AT because I've several times bought misc batches on my way to getting a full 32 or so piece set.  If they are 3AT and you want me to check whether or not I have any that you're missing, send me a PM with the list.

Robert D.


----------



## Mister Ed

Very nice. I'm glad my lathe is not all apart ... I would not get it back together this summer. Bought a, new to me, Jet 8x36 mill and have yet to actually put it to work.


----------



## mjhenks

Robert,

I believe what i have are 3C collets as i believe the unit came from a South Bend.  The Adapter for the spindle though fits the Logan.  At least it sure seems like it does.  I did a comp on the adapter and the MT adapter i pulled out of the spindle a few months ago and they look very close as far as taper and diameter.  

Once i get the apron back together i can do some testing.

What is the whole collet set anyways?  Seems like 1/2" is the biggest you can likely fit in there.  I have 6 unique sizes and lots of duplicates.


----------



## wa5cab

MJ,

3AT and 3C, if unmarked, are easy to ID.  I have one or two collets that are odd lengths but two Hardinge drawings that I have copies of give the length of the 3AT as 2-5/16" and of the 3C as 2-11/16.  That length figure is to the large end of the taper, so does not include the swell of the radius on the large end.  Which is about 1/16" and 3/32" respectively.  The threads are so close to the same (0.637-26 and 0.640-26) that most draw tubes will fit either one.

Another document from Logan gives the max capacity of both families as 1/2" round, 7/16" hex and 11/32 square.  In round, both are or were available in 1/64" increments so a full set would be 1/64" to 1/2", or 32 pieces.  However, collets under 1/16" are rare, maybe because the machines that the collets will fit are a bit large to be working on anything that small.

The collet closer adapters are most commonly made to fit a 3MT spindle taper, so any of them would fit any lathe with a 3MT taper in the spindle.  3MT spindle taper usually means about 25/32" bore so most draw tubes are 3/4" OD.  Most handwheel operated draw tubes can be made to fit any of the lathes that the adapter will fit by adjusting the length of the beveled spacer/thrust bearing.

Robert D.


----------



## mjhenks

Robert,

Thank you for the additional information.  My collets measure about 2-9/16 in length and are Hardinge and CMC brand.  Honestly was told that they were 3C and am taking it on face value.  They came from a South Bend.   I have 6 unique sizes and about 10 duplicates.

My draw bar is about 6" too long.  I cannot tell for sure but i believe it has been adapted from something.  The hand wheel has been re-welded and an extension added to the back side with cross holes.  Likely i will cut it short and re-thread it for the Logan.




Matthew

- - - Updated - - -

How much hand wheel slop does your apron have???

So i finally got the bushings made and installed in the apron.  I am still not 100% happy with them but they will do for now.  I think the bore into the cast iron should have been done better.  For now though my lathe has an apron again.  Yaaa!!!

So how much slop does your hand wheel have.  See below.





By feeling behind the apron i can tell that most of this is gear to gear or gear to rack slop.  How much is normal though?  When threading the weigh of the handle going from end to end in the slop puts load into the system and changes the pitch.  I am sure it will also affect finish on normal cuts as well.  (Or i may just be looking for perfection....  Not sure which yet  :thinking 

When i started working on the apron bushings i had 10x as much slop so the bushings have corrected most of it.  After these pictures were taken i shimmed down the rack by about .028" which helped a little more.

I also got some mounts for my AXA tool holders and made a mount for my draw bar parts.  All mounted right next to the lathe.  Just have to find a home for the actual draw bar.




Matthew


----------



## mjhenks

In doing more research i realize my collets are 1A collets which is why they are shorter than the 3C.  1A turns out to be the South Bend version of the 3C collet.  The only difference is the length which is ~1/8" shorter.  Hence why my collet measure shorter.

Wonder why they did that.:thinking:


----------



## Mister Ed

Looking good Matthew! I have some backlash in my hand wheel ... but can't sit here and say how much. I have never noticed any effect while the half nuts are engaged (I don't thread a bunch either).


----------



## wa5cab

Yep, you're right.  Had I looked at the other collet dimension chart that I have, I would have spotted that last night.  Sorry.

As to why they did it that way, probably the same reason that any other manufacturer makes parts that don't fit  other brands.  Trying to generate a captive customer base.

On modifying your drawbar assembly to fit, I think I would to it the other way.  Making the proper threads inside the cut off drawbar is not going to be a trivial exercise if you have to single-point it and the proper tap is going to cost a fortune even if you can find one.  If the thing is really about 6" too long, and if the existing threads are OK, I would cut off the other end and bore the handwheel to fit.  Initially, as I doubt that there are any standard dimension charts floating around, I would drill and tap the handweel hub for several set screws.  Once I got the length set to suit, might later go back and have it welded or brazed.  A good rule of thumb is when the collet is properly closed on a nominal diameter workpiece, to have at least one half but not more than three fourths of the threads engaged.

Robert D.



mjhenks said:


> In doing more research i realize my collets are 1A collets which is why they are shorter than the 3C.  1A turns out to be the South Bend version of the 3C collet.  The only difference is the length which is ~1/8" shorter.  Hence why my collet measure shorter.
> 
> Wonder why they did that.:thinking:


----------



## mjhenks

Looked over how i could shorten the draw bar today.  No chance at passing it through the head stock and being able to single point it.  No chance of getting a .641-26 tap.

Best idea i had was to clamp the back side of the handle, put the shaft in a steady rest and attack it that way.  Sounds interesting....

After looking it over i realize that the shaft, front and rear have been added to the handle.  This has already been modified.  The rear short shaft is welded in place.  No idea what it would be for.  It has cross holes in it for some purpose.  The front shaft was brazed in place.  They bored out the seating diameter for the back of the spindle and brazed in a new shaft.  That i can work with.







Time to get out the MAP gas and un-braze the shaft.  Shorten it and braze it back on.  I think at the same time i will evaluate removing the short shaft from the rear.


----------



## wa5cab

MJ (please sign all posts),

Not that 0.001" would matter much but the thread spec is 0.640"-26.

My guess is that the short tube sticking out the back side of the handwheel is for set screws to steady long thin stock.  I would cut it off flush with the weld and then face the hub back to original.  You should be able to chuck on the draw tube or on the machine side hub.  Then, assuming that the draw tube is long enough, cut it off flush with the small diameter of the thrust bearing (thrust bearings should be a slip fit on the draw tube, not brazed to it).  Next, cut off the thrust bearing and bore it to fit the tube.  Cut off the short stub of draw tube.  And bore the handwheel through to a slip fit on the draw tube.  Finally, as you might want to use the closer on 3C and/or 3AT, I might use set screws in the wheel hub instead of brazing the tube again.  Of course, you could also make three thrust bearings of different lengths or make one plus two ring spacers.

Robert D.


----------



## mjhenks

Robert,

Thank you.  

I did try and un-braze the tube.  Map gassed till it was cherry red but nothing budged.  I can see the seam on the inside but no movement at all.  

I agree with your assessment of the small end now that you mention holding stock in place.  That makes sense.  Weather it stays or goes is TBD.  I really like things stock so likely...

Anyone know what that hand wheel would have original originally gone on?  I do not think it was original Logan and it was reported to be from a South Bend.

Matthew


----------



## wa5cab

Matthew,

You're welcome.  All that I can tell you is that it wasn't originally Atlas.  They were all smaller in diameter and the only round one was slick, not knurled.

Robert D.


----------



## mjhenks

Ever get to a point in a project where you think it is just time to be done....

I am there. 

 I think aside from a few missing "nice to have" parts i am done with the restoration of my Model 400 lathe.




I mounted the ID plates last night even though they are not as nice as i would like them to be.  

Took the home made ID plate for the Quick Change Gear Box, mated it to the old one and drilled the mount holes.





Mounted the Gear Chart on the inside of the cover even though i will no longer have to swap gears.




These are the rivits i used.  McMaster Carr. box of 100.  Enought for this lathe and the next 8 i will restore.  Not....




All Mounted and looking pretty.  Looks mighty nice.




Got the lock handle for the tail stock mounted and got myself a dauber.




Ok, not done because somehow in rebuilding the apron i lost the C clip for the pinion shaft and the nut for the handle.  Still looking.....




Living near the beach there is always moisture in the air so here my baby sits under cover waiting for the next project.




To be technical, there are a few things that i still need to do but the lathe is now useable.  My short list is:

- Locate a gear cover from a 9B.  It is different and will cover the extended gears from the gear box.  (Anyone have one???)
- Locate a power Apron/Saddle from a 9B.  Should have bought the one with the gear box....  (Anyone have one???)
- Make a nut plate for the steady rest.
- Locate a proper wrench for the tail stock. One that is more vintage looking.
- Complete the 3C collet set for the draw bar.
- Shorten the draw bar or make a spacer.
- Find a proper follower rest. (Although i never see needing one it would just make it all there.)

Next post may be next week or next year on this one.

Thank you for reading.

Matthew


----------



## wa5cab

Well, it certainly looks like you did a nice job.  I was especially impressed with the dataplates.

Robert D.


----------



## mjhenks

Ok so I need some help.  What would cause the half nut to not want to disengage???

Before I had the half nut rebuilt I used the lathe and had no issues engaging and disengaging the half nut.  Of course it was also sloppy.  Not so any more.

Gear box is set to a medium speed and I am trying to disengage the half nut while taking a cut.  About .015" deep cut.

The nut sticks.  Like it is being puled in and I have to pull it out.  As soon as I get it opening it goes fine but I really have to pull hard to get it going.  When it does open up it the whole cross slide jumps.  It is really bad.  Everything seams to be tight.

I did not try it with lighter cuts.

Is that how a new nut should behave?  If yes then man....  Not very useful.

Please let me know what you all think.

Matthew


----------



## wa5cab

Matthew,

I don't currently have any guess as to what the problem is but I can answer your final question with "NO".  A new half nut assembly should disengage as easily as a worn one.  I have had my Atlas 3996 since new, and it was no harder to disengage when new than it is today.

You said that you had the half nuts "rebuilt", not replaced.  Who rebuilt them?  I would talk to him or them first.

Robert D.


----------



## mjhenks

A quick correction to post #65.  (For some reason I cannot edit it any more)  

There is only one lock nut as shown below.  I state that there are two.  My mistake.




Also to be clear the Bellville washer orientation is that step is like this.  <>. 

Matthew

- - - Updated - - -

Robert,

They were rebuild by one of the guys over at the Practical Machinist site.  

I think I am going to loosen all the bolts holding it in place up and re-set them while the nut is clamped on the shaft again to see If I just did not seat it right.

Will let you know what I find out.

Matthew


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## Robotman

I've found this thread very useful for repairing my Logan 400. Post #29 was a bit confusing: 



> _The compound came apart by removing the collar that the dial sits against.
> It is left hand thread. It has a hole for a pin to try and get it off but neither of mine were going anywhere. (There is one on the saddle as well) I had to vice grip it off with a rag to protect the parts. I ended up marking it a little but nothing bad. Once that was out the whole thing can be unscrewed from the nut. The nut is pressed into the housing._




I thought this meant the collar has left hand thread. For future reference, the collar has regular thread. Also the brass compound nut is, or should be, free (sliding), to allow it to be depressed to allow removal of the compound. A crude pin spanner, made from 3/8 bar stock and an old 1/8" drill, can be used to undo the collar.




But yeah, this collar was also on super tight.  

I was wondering if you ordered the spindle bearings from Logan or if those bearings were sourced elsewhere.


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## mjhenks

I did order my bearings from Logan.  I did the research, read all the arguments and in the end figured i wanted to do this once and Scott gives so much that i would get them from him and do it once.

As for the confusion....  At this point it is hard for me to confirm or deny that i wrote it wrong as i would have to take it back apart.  No plans to do that till i locate a 9B saddle and apron to adapt to my 400.  Almost 2 years looking so far..... Anyone know of one for sale?????

I will add one update.  I was going to make a thread but i cannot post pictures for some reason.  I have built a VFD for my Logan.  Using a Baldor 2HP 3-phase motor.  VFD is built and installed.  The motor is ALOT longer than the stock motor so i am working out a way to reverse the motor on the jackshaft.  Do-able but other projects are in the way right now.

Matthew


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## Daneno

Hello, I recently acquired a Logan 400, unfortunately it did not come with the motor pulley. Can you tell me what size it is? 
Thanks. 


mjhenks said:


> Thank you Redlineman.
> 
> Small update.  Motor mount assembled.  Motor is already mounted and i tested out how well the jackshaft spins.  Alot quieter now that the shaft actually fits the bushings.  I also realize that i will have to slide out the shaft to install the drive belt later on.
> 
> View attachment 72486
> 
> 
> Also got the main bearing pressed on today and made new pivot pins for the cover.
> 
> View attachment 72486


ir


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## wa5cab

mjhenks said:


> I will add one update.  I was going to make a thread but i cannot post pictures for some reason.
> Matthew



Matthew,

The site is having some sort of problem with the button for adding photos to either the first post of a new thread or to any post in an existing thread.  The buttons are still where they have always been but are hidden.  All that you can see is a blank area.  After you read this, slide your mouse pointer down to the blank space between the POST REPLY and MORE OPTIONS...   The normal mouse pointer (in my case an arrow head) will change to a hand with index finger pointing (or maybe something else.  Click once and you should get a files directory of your local machine in the upper left corner of the screen.  From there on, everything seems to work normally.

The same problem occurs with creating a new  thread, except that the two visible buttons are labeled CREATE THREAD and PREVIEW...  And the same thing is happening in DOWNLOADS.


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## wa5cab

Matthew,

Are you by any chance running FireFox?  Latest version of a few days ago?


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## HMF

Checking.....please ignore....


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## mjhenks

Testing, please ignore....


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## mjhenks

Thought i would post an update after many years.  Logan is running great.  Does not get alot of use but still happy with the work done.  I ended up installing a VFD on it and very happy with that mod.

QCGB works great and someday i will find a power feed saddle assy from a 9b to install.


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## slhanson

mjhenks said:


> Thought i would post an update after many years.  Logan is running great.  Does not get alot of use but still happy with the work done.  I ended up installing a VFD on it and very happy with that mod.
> 
> QCGB works great and someday i will find a power feed saddle assy from a 9b to install.


I am green with envy....I recently bought a Logan 400 that is missing enough to make me question my decision.  I wonder if you could find casting numbers for your motor mount assembly, and end cover?  I see some parts can be found, but hate to buy parts that may not fit.


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