# ID VFD and check condition



## autonoz (Oct 9, 2014)

I will be getting my mill on Sunday. "finally" I have wired a sub panel and a friend of mine gave me a VFD. Unfortunately there is no manual and no model number on the unit. I have two questions; Can anyone ID the unit by the pictures or tell me if there is a way? The other is, I have read only one time, that if a VFD has been sitting it needs to be serviced because something goes bad inside the unit. Is there a way to check the VFD to see if it is functioning properly?


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## autonoz (Oct 9, 2014)

OK it looks like I answered one of my own questions after uploading a picture to Google. It appears to be a Huan Yang. I still need to know if there is a way to check it's operation and if letting it sit has caused concerns?


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## JimDawson (Oct 9, 2014)

The filter capacitors can go bad after sitting a long time, not sure what the shelf life really is.  I have seen them fail after a year or so, and others work fine after sitting for several years.  I think you just have to power it up to see for sure.


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## autonoz (Oct 9, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> The filter capacitors can go bad after sitting a long time, not sure what the shelf life really is.  I have seen them fail after a year or so, and others work fine after sitting for several years.  I think you just have to power it up to see for sure.



If I wire it up to check can I just use a volt meter at the connections to see if it is producing the correct voltage? Also, after reading up on this brand it gets pretty crappy reviews. If I decide to buy a new one do you have a good suggestion for which brand?


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## JimDawson (Oct 9, 2014)

Yes, but you will want to wire it up to a motor, VFDs don't like to be run without a motor attached.  From the key pad you can check the output voltage, and current.  Unless you have a True RMS meter, like a Fluke 87 or equivalent, the voltages on the meter may not reflect the actual output voltage, because of the strange waveform that the VFD puts out.  The best way to really check it is just to run the motor with it, I would give it an hour or so with an unloaded motor.  If it doesn't let the magic smoke out, then it's probably OK.

As far a a good brand, my favorite is Automation Direct.  Not the least cost, but a good value and great customer support and documentation.  Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Baldor, Teco, are also good brands.  There are many others.


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## CluelessNewB (Oct 9, 2014)

The link below may be the correct manual for your Huanyang VFD:

http://www.jinlantrade.com/ebay/invertermanual.pdf


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## mksj (Oct 9, 2014)

As mentioned, this looks like the no-name generic VFDs sold by many Chinese vendors. Not sure on the name, as I have seen numerous listings that look identical. I would be concerned that the units nameplate/programmed voltage and phase, that both input and output are correct for your application before hooking it up.

It is unlikely for modern electrolytic capacitors to go bad after sitting on the shelf (or in equipment) for a year or two, providing it is not exposed to high heat. Usually electrolytic capacitors that are old (many years to decades), can be checked for leakage, and/or the voltage is applied slowly monitoring the capacitors (i.e. reforming). As for mounted capacitors in a VFD, this link  http://machinedesign.com/motorsdrives/feed-your-vfd-right-power suggests reforming the capacitors by applying voltage to the VFD for 8 hours with no motor attached (i.e. no load). It is acceptable to power-up the VFD with no motor attached, just don't operate the motor controls.  If power is applied to a VFD and there is any problem at start up or running, most modern units will provide an error message on the display screen. There is also a run time counter "Life Check Monitor" on some VFD models, as all electrolytic capacitors have a finite use lifespan which is dependent on % load and temperature (something like 10 years at 100% load at 30C)

If I recall, one needs a special multimeter or scope-meter to evaluate VFD outputs because of the higher carrier frequency and the signal is chopped. In this case if the unit powers up fine, I would let it stand powered for 6-8 hours at 0 Hz. Then I would try it to operate the motor. The VFDs Jim mentioned all are very good units, but it is worth reading up on specific models and features. The sensorless vector mode adds a lot to the motor control. I recently switched to Hitachi WJ200 units, they are commonly used and considered fairly bullet proof. I have also heard good things about the Teco VFDs, but varies with models. Yaskawa VFDs are top of the line, and you pay for it. A lot also has to do with the VFD features, programming, a readable manual and support. 
Mark


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## autonoz (Oct 9, 2014)

OK thanks for the info. I think I will hook it up and let it sit to see what happens. If all seems good I'll give it a try. If there is any sign of problems I will trash it and get a new one from the one you have recommended. Wish me luck. Oh, one last question. The fact it says 220v 2.2kw can I be pretty sure it is 220 single in and 220 three phase out


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## mksj (Oct 9, 2014)

Check the model number on the name plate, most likely it is the HY02D223B (1 or 3 phase input); the 3 phase only is HY02D433B. Manual indicates that connection for input are made to the R, S, T terminals, use any two can be used for single phase. Burn it in for a couple of hours with no load, also check the program display settings before operating the motor. Settings like PD004 base frequency is 60,  PD005 max freq. 60 or 80, PD008 is motor nameplate voltage, etc....

I am still learning what all the programming functions do, as there are 100's of settings for units like the Hitachi WJ200 or Teco N3. I ended up downloading the Yaskawa V1000 manual, which was much easier to understand and did a better job in explaining VFD connections and programming.


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## autonoz (Oct 10, 2014)

Check the model number on the name plate, most likely it is the HY02D223B
There isn't a name plate on it.

The picture shows how I wired it, per a you tube video. I set all the parameters and let it sit for about an hour. No smoke, so I ran the motor. The motor ran up to 60Hz and I could adjust the Hz with the VFD. I am going to let it sit under power for a while and if it still seems to be operating as it should I will utilize it until it quits. Maybe it won't. I will be changing the wiring from 14g to 16g multi strand. Does that sound fair? Thanks for everyone's help.


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## JimDawson (Oct 10, 2014)

Looking good!  I would say it works.

The input current could go as high as about 25 amps, so at a minimum I would use #12 stranded wire for the input side.

The output current is limited to about 10 amps so #16 stranded should be fine.


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## autonoz (Oct 10, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> Looking good!  I would say it works.
> 
> The input current could go as high as about 25 amps, so at a minimum I would use #12 stranded wire for the input side.
> 
> The output current is limited to about 10 amps so #16 stranded should be fine.



Will do. Another thing I noticed and maybe this is normal. The VFD is rated at 50 hz. I set the three parameters to 60hz and RPM to 1720. When the motor is running at 60hz the RPM's are over 2000, if I back the hz to 50 the motor runs at 1720. Should I run the VFD at 60hz and adjust the top RPM's lower? Also, should I set the belt drive on my mill to the fastest pulley setting and use the VFD to control speed or just set the VFD to the correct RPM's and adjust the mill speed with the pulleys. I want to preserve my motor.


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## JimDawson (Oct 10, 2014)

There should be a Base Frequency parameter setting, you would set that to 60 Hz, I think that's the problem.

I would not run the motor for extended periods at less then 30 Hz, make your large speed changes with the pulleys then use the VFD to fine tune the speed.  This will keep the machine torque in a usable range.

I run mine between 30 and 70 Hz for the most part.  For light power tapping and reaming, I will set it lower.


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## autonoz (Oct 10, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> There should be a Base Frequency parameter setting, you would set that to 60 Hz, I think that's the problem.
> 
> I would not run the motor for extended periods at less then 30 Hz, make your large speed changes with the pulleys then use the VFD to fine tune the speed.  This will keep the machine torque in a usable range.
> 
> I run mine between 30 and 70 Hz for the most part.  For light power tapping and reaming, I will set it lower.



OK thanks, I'll check the base frequency setting.


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## autonoz (Oct 16, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> There should be a Base Frequency parameter setting, you would set that to 60 Hz, I think that's the problem.
> 
> I would not run the motor for extended periods at less then 30 Hz, make your large speed changes with the pulleys then use the VFD to fine tune the speed.  This will keep the machine torque in a usable range.
> 
> I run mine between 30 and 70 Hz for the most part.  For light power tapping and reaming, I will set it lower.



I have the base frequency set to 60hz, but the RPM's still show fast when running at 60hz. If I back it down to 50hz it runs the proper rpm's. I set the rpm's lower at 50hz to get the rpm's correct at 60hz, if that makes sense. Not sure why it is doing this. Of course I have no other way of checking the true rpm's, I am just going off what the VFD is telling me. There is a setting called inverter frequency standard, PD176 that is set at factory for 50hz. It can not be changed. I wonder if I just need to get a 60hz VFD?


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## autonoz (Oct 16, 2014)

Answered my own question. I finally found an answer on line. You are suppose to set PD144 to the RPM's your motor will run at 50hz to get the correct RPM's at 60hz, so mine is set right. Just in case anyone else has the same problem.


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## Skarven (Oct 16, 2014)

I have three of these VFDs. 2 on my mill.  One on the spindle and one on the vertical motor.  The third one is for the lathe, but it is on the todo-list.
It has been used to test several 3-phase motors.

I have had these VFD for about 3 years, and never had a problem.  I run them from 10 - 50 Hz and 5Hz for the jog function.
The torque at 5 Hz is not very high, but I usee them all the time with 10Hz for tapping.
I normally run them from 20Hz to 50Hz for speed control for heavier use.

I will have to mount the third one on the lathe some day...

Kai


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## JimDawson (Oct 16, 2014)

autonoz said:


> I have the base frequency set to 60hz, but the RPM's still show fast when running at 60hz. If I back it down to 50hz it runs the proper rpm's. I set the rpm's lower at 50hz to get the rpm's correct at 60hz, if that makes sense. Not sure why it is doing this. Of course I have no other way of checking the true rpm's, I am just going off what the VFD is telling me. There is a setting called inverter frequency standard, PD176 that is set at factory for 50hz. It can not be changed. I wonder if I just need to get a 60hz VFD?



I installed one of these same VFDs on a customer drill press last weekend.  I noticed the same thing, I used my tach to check the motor RPM and it was close to the nameplate speed, but the display showed a different value.  There is another parameter that allows you to change the display value, but I can't remember what it is.  I did not have time to do much playing with it.  I had a lot of trouble getting it set up to run at all, the far right hand digit on the display was almost hidden and I finally realized I had to look at it at an angle to see it.

The bottom line is that I would not trust the display RPM.


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## John Hasler (Oct 16, 2014)

If there's no encoder on the motor the VFD cannot know the actual motor speed.  It's just estimating based on some assumptions about motor slip.  There ought to be a way to calibrate it but I would not be surprised if there isn't.  Even if you can calibrate it, it's going to be approximate.


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## Skarven (Oct 16, 2014)

Look at the parameters PD143 - Motor Pole Number and PD144 - Rated Motor Revolution.  In the manual it says that PD144 should be RPM at 50Hz.
I suspect that PD144 is RPM at the frequency set in parameter PD004 - Base Frequency, with a fully loaded motor.

I will test this when I can access the VFD.

Kai

Sorry, didn' read all the posts


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