# small CNC mill suggestions



## sgisler (May 20, 2012)

hi, I've been registered on this forum for a year or more and this weekend got an email that I 'haven't been heasrd from yet'. So, thanks for the nudge, it has spurred me on to ask this question:
What small CNC would you reccomend?

To give the question some context, I am a hobby user, doing mostly my own gun work as well as some payiong jobs. I have a SB 10k and one of the chinese minimills (Cummings). I have looked at Syil, Tormach, Micro Kinetics, etc.
There seems to be a lot of machines in this class, so I'm hoping that some of you have direct experiance with some of them.
Thanks in advance, Stan


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## AR1911 (May 23, 2012)

Apparently not. I think we are  mostly manual-centric here.

Not usually PC to direct one to another forum, but after 3 days of no replies I think it appropriate:

Of course there is CNCZone, 
PM has a pretty good CNC subforum, more aimed toward production. They aren't polite to hobbyists, but the gunsmith subforum has some good people.
Yahoo has several CNC groups. I'd also search the Yahoo groups for machine-specific groups.


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## jumps4 (May 23, 2012)

hi and welcome
I have a sherline cnc mill and lathe the work you are doing already is too much for them steel takes forever due to rigidy
my planned build is a zx45 ( from wholesale tools $1800.00 )and cnc it myself I dont have any experence with the x2 or x3 but from what i have read for my needs i'm going as big as i can for as little as possible
I know thats not a lot of help except dont go sherline for steel they are great learning machines but too light
steve


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## jumps4 (May 23, 2012)

I never seen this post in new posts
did it just show up after 3 days?
steve


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## sgisler (May 23, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I was beginng to wonder if I'd done something to offend. JK 

But thanks for the info on the other sites as well AR1911 (two of my favorites by the way). I think i've cruised thru some of them before, so another look is warranted.

jumps4, I know what you mean. I looked at the Sherlines myself before settling on the Cummings minimill. I've been surprised by what it will do, have actually done quite a bit of stainless on it. Just am wanting a bigger work envelope and would _really_ like the accuracy, repeatability and 3d profiling capabilities of CNC. (I know, a machinist worth his salt should be able to pull off accuracy and repeatability. i guess im saying im basically lazy ))

Thanks again!


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## Rbeckett (May 23, 2012)

A lot of fellows are doing a DIY CNC using Gecko controllers, Kelling motors and Mach 3 software.  From what I have seen they work out great.  My cnc Plasma is a torchmate propriatary machine, but the principle is exactly the same.  If you need help getting started on a CNC conversion, let me know where your at in the process and I will help you get to the end.  It's not as hard as it looks, especially once you have done a lil bit o studyin.  LMK if you would like some help or guidance on the project, it will be like doing another machine for me.  Have fun and don't forget the pics as you go too.
Bob


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## sgisler (May 23, 2012)

Thanks Bob,
I have thought about doing that, just talked myself out of it for all the other ufinished projects I have. I may need to look harder at it though. Off the top of your head, what would it take, $wise, to convert say an X3 class machine?

Stan


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## Kennyd (May 23, 2012)

sgisler said:


> Thanks Bob,
> I have thought about doing that, just talked myself out of it for all the other ufinished projects I have. I may need to look harder at it though. Off the top of your head, what would it take, $wise, to convert say an X3 class machine?
> 
> Stan



I attended a seminar at the Cabin Fever show where LMS used one of these machines: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=1241045623

Very impressive to say the least!


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## woodguy (May 23, 2012)

I've just completed the conversion of my SX3 mill.  I used a plug and play approach with components from Soigeneris and CNC Fusion.  If I had been converting an X3 there would have been no modification to the machine at all, but the SX3 did require a small amount of modification to the sheet metal surrounding the mill electronics.

CNC Fusion Deluxe kit can be seen here: http://www.cncfusion.com/smallmill1.html   $969.00
Soigeneris supplied me with the power supply/control electronics (including USB Smoothstepper) and stepper motors.  http://www.soigeneris.com/STDR_4C-details.aspx    $1024.50

The SX3 cost me about $1500.

I'm happy as a clam with the mill - it's a real pleasure to use.

If you look into the CNC fusion videos, you should know that the product has moved on from the one shown in those vids. The build quality of the bits he supplies is first class.

Soigeneris supplied the steppers with cables prewired and I didn't so much as lift a soldering iron.

You can do it cheaper, but this way was just so easy.


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## jumps4 (May 23, 2012)

the zx45 list i have made up is as follows ( work envelope x21 y12 z18 )
new mill                                                                 1800
3 axis kit 2-1600oz/in and 1-4200oz/in for z,
3 controllers, breakout board and the power supplies      896
ball screws and nuts x3                                             411
oiler                                                                        51
3 shaft couplings                                                       30
estop 2fans 6 limit switches                                        47
smooth stepper board                                               165
terminal board                                                           30
usb cable                                                                  5
coolant pump system                                                152
vfd and 3phase motor                                                275
total                                                                  $3865.00
add gecko drives for 4 axis's (not required)                  539
total                                                                 $4455.00 

  this mill is on ebay cnced for about $8500 and the motors are only 800 oz/in at 100 ipm max
 see ebay 320641112681 note they only powered the quill not the column z is under 5"
with the larger stepper motors i'll use and direct drive it will do 300 ipm easy with the smooth stepper 
with no repeatability problems
  I am not a know it all this is simply my research . I hope this helps you also
steve


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## sgisler (May 23, 2012)

Thanks for the great info guys! I will definately look harder at the DIY approach. After hearing what you've had to say, doesn't sound that bad after all. I was really straining to justify the 8k+ I was looking at for a completed machine. 
Guess I need to start shopping around!
Thanks!
Stan


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## ScrapMetal (May 23, 2012)

Check out this link for what Kevin made with his Tormach - http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/6508-KTM-handlebar-risers 

It might not mean much but I'm impressed :biggrin:

-Ron


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## jumps4 (May 23, 2012)

i have part numbers and suppliers if you would like them
steve


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## sgisler (May 23, 2012)

Yes sir Steve, I would indeed love to have that info.
thanks,
Stan


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## sgisler (May 23, 2012)

ScrapMetal said:


> Check out this link for what Kevin made with his Tormach - http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/6508-KTM-handlebar-risers
> 
> It might not mean much but I'm impressed :biggrin:
> 
> -Ron




Wow, that _is _​impressive!


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## jumps4 (May 23, 2012)

ok here goes
milling machine  wholesale tools zx45   ( wttools.com ) 1800 + shipping
ebay item numbers
motors and drives   170796217146
1 coupling 370594678819
2 couplings 251009617349
ballscrew set 290649528399
oiler 170658580507
3 phase motor  i'm looking for number
vfd 170767920882
(gecko drives 4   330680118035)  will need another power supply you dont really need these I'm not using them
parts washer for coolant pump and tank  320909598267

cnc4pc items
smoothstepper + look for terminal board on bottom of screen
2 fans estop and 6 limit switches
 usb cable


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## jumps4 (May 23, 2012)

here is the direct fit 2hp three phase motor for the vfd
https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.com/xcart/catalog/Motor-3-phase-2-hp-p-16246.html
anything else just ask   I think i got everything
you have to make the motor mounts they are easy and i have nema34 and 42 bolt paterns if you need them   I'd use only shielded wire
without the smooth steppers and vfd three phase motor coolant pump and oiler this can be build for about 3500  3 axis  check it out you can always add on
steve


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## jumps4 (May 23, 2012)

nice smooth stepper with 5 relay multifunction board
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Smooth-Step...776?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1454c350
steve

that will keep you busy   :lmao::lmao::lmao:
steve


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## jumps4 (May 23, 2012)

i have numbers for sheild wire. 4 terminal connectors, coolant flex nozzles and a lot more
if you need them
steve

ps I would not use any chinese machine, lathe mill bandsaw anything without removing the original oil and a really good wash out  they leave sand from casting in them    i read a lot about this as a problem once cleaned your good to go


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## jumps4 (May 23, 2012)

the kewl thing about using the column as the z axis is, to zero z after a tool change you can use the quill to touch the tool without resetting the z zero in mach3. just start with the quill locked about an inch or so down and locked to leave room for adjustment
I think that came out right
I'm done now
steve


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## sgisler (May 24, 2012)

Wow. That sure will keep me busy for a while. I'll have to digest that for a bit. I'm sure I'll have more questions 

Thanks for all that, I appreciate your time Steve. 

Stan


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## Mid Day Machining (Jun 15, 2012)

What kind of work do you want to do? How much travel do you need? What kind of material will you be working with?

I took all these questions into consideration last July, and I bought a Tormach PCNC1100, and I have not regretted it for a minute, and I run my machine 50 to 70 hours a week.

I cut mostly aluminum, but I have done some 55 rockwell steel, and some titanium.

My business is mostly gasoline powered remote control cars and boats (1/5 scale cars trucks and 1/4 scale boats).

I used to own a real CNC machine shop where I had a 22HP FADAL and a 20HP Haas, and I haven't found anything yet that I could do on either of those machines that I can't do on my Tormach. It just takes a little longer. And do you have any idea what's really cool about the Tormach over those machines? My Tormach didn't cost $75,000.00.

My original plan was to work till I was 70 years old, but a major health issue threw a big wrench in to that plan. I attempted retirement, but it only took 3 1/2 months before my wife told me to go out and get a frigging job. At my age with the new scar on my chest, no one would hire me so the next best thing to do was to put a machine in my garage. I haven't regretted it for a single day.

My opinion, stop looking at all the others and buy the Tormach. You'll be happy you did.

Here's a picture of my machine and some parts I have made on it.

Steve


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## blacksmith (Jul 5, 2012)

sgisler said:


> Wow. That sure will keep me busy for a while. I'll have to digest that for a bit. I'm sure I'll have more questions
> 
> Thanks for all that, I appreciate your time Steve.
> 
> Stan



Stan,

One common mistake is to overspec the steppers. You don't want them to get too big. The response of the motor goes hand in hand with the mass of the rotor. If you try and over spec the torque, the rotor will have more mass and actually slow you down anywhere the machine has to change direction.

The other thing is that you need to realize that steppers are at 100% current all the time if you are expecting them to "hold".

There are schemes to back the current down if there is no pressure on that axis.

So, steppers run hot.

Regards,

Matt


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## jumps4 (Jul 5, 2012)

the motors are not over spec for this application the head weighs 300lb and a max table dead weight capacity of 300lbs :nono:

here is a company selling this machine note their motors are 2-1300 and a 3000 and there is a current drop switch on the controllers for holding amps. the same parts as i suggested are used here.
http://midwestmachineworks.com/Rong Fu 45 Clone Conversion.html


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## blacksmith (Jul 5, 2012)

Hello,

I was speaking more in general terms, not specifically to the mill in the post above.

Looks like a really nice machine though!

Regards,

Matt


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## cjsamples (Jul 21, 2012)

Sorry, a little late to the party. Try heading over to http://www.g0704.com
It is a guys website dedicated to the Grizzly G0704 mill. He has done a ton of the research on converting this mill and he is just a great guy. He has a few threads on cnczone on his machine/machines and all of his conversions and projects. I will hopefully start on my G0704 shortly when I get a few things off my plate.

 He also started a site http://www.g0602.com to cnc a lathe grizzly sells. He has links to plenty of people that have cnc'ed this little mill to do amazing things as well.

Just ask around for Hoss and he will answer any question. In retrospect I did ask a few questions that I should have known the answer too but never got a cross word from him. Just patient answers to all of my questions. Look in the bench top mill section.

Chris


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## cjsamples (Jul 21, 2012)

*one more note........*

If you start reading the g0704 threads make sure you have all afternoon. There is literally thousands of post.

Chris


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## Mid Day Machining (Jul 22, 2012)

After watching several of the videos on that web site, all I can say is, "BUY THE TORMACH".


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## bvd1940 (Mar 15, 2015)

Not everyone wants or can afford a turn key system. Also some of us want to build a cnc system for the feeling of accomplishment one gets from putting it together.
It is not a one size fits all IMHO


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