# Best replacement belts?



## Cadillac STS (Nov 4, 2017)

The belts are 5/8 belts and they cause a significant shaking while running. 

What are the best replacements for less shaking?

The link type seem best but the 5/8 one is not suppposed to go on less than 3 inch pulley.  

Would the 1/2 inch link belts work?  

What are people doing for belts with less shaking?


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 4, 2017)

is the shaking causing surface finish problems or is the belt slipping or misaligned?


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## Dave Paine (Nov 4, 2017)

If the belt has a "set" from being flexed around the small pulley this could cause some vibration.

If you want a solid belt with more flexability, try a cogged "B" size belt.

V Belts 4 Less


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## mikey (Nov 4, 2017)

I use 5/8" Fenner belts on my RF-31 and have no issues at all. Quieter and no significant vibration or slippage.


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## Cadillac STS (Nov 4, 2017)

mikey said:


> I use 5/8" Fenner belts on my RF-31 and have no issues at all. Quieter and no significant vibration or slippage.



Nice to know, I want to go that way.

Not slipping or misaligned.  It is a CNC mill so want to get rid of any vibration possible; if it were just used as a drill press I would be happy with it as it is.

The mill is new to me but I can feel a vibration with the motor on.  I've had nice results with the Fenner belts but not sure of the fit.


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## mikey (Nov 4, 2017)

No matter what belt you run, there will be some vibration. The Fenner belts do run much smoother than the V-belts, though. I had a mean harmonic at 1800 rpm with the V-belt and the Fenner belt resolved it completely.


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## Bob Korves (Nov 4, 2017)

It appears that Fenner has five types of belts.  Which type are you speaking of, Mike?


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## woodchucker (Nov 4, 2017)

I use fenner's on my ww tools. But I found the mill to be objectionably loud with them on and since we can reverse a mill, I replaced it with a cogged belt.  They are very good, don't take a set, and are less noisy. Not as quiet as I hoped for, but better than my fenner belts.


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## mikey (Nov 4, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> It appears that Fenner has five types of belts.  Which type are you speaking of, Mike?



I'm using the Power Twist Plus, B-type belt. My mill is currently obstructed by stuff (new shop extension in progress) so its hard to get to but I know its a B-type belt.


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## Bob Korves (Nov 4, 2017)

mikey said:


> I'm using the Power Twist Plus, B-type belt. My mill is currently obstructed by stuff (new shop extension in progress) so its hard to get to but I know its a B-type belt.


So it is a V belt, higher quality version?  Edit:  I looked it up and see it is a link belt.


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## HBilly1022 (Nov 5, 2017)

mikey said:


> I'm using the Power Twist Plus, B-type belt. My mill is currently obstructed by stuff (new shop extension in progress) so its hard to get to but I know its a B-type belt.



I have an RF30 clone and am having vibrations issues with it too. I thought about going the link belt route but I read the 5/8" belts should not be run on a pulley smaller than 5" diameter. Some of the pulleys on my machine are smaller. 

Mike, do you run the various pulleys with your Fenner belts or are you using a VFD or some other variable speed device and only using the larger pulleys?


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## TomS (Nov 5, 2017)

I've had Fenner Power Twist belts on my Enco RF-30 clone for about five years now and haven't had any noise or vibration issues.


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## HBilly1022 (Nov 5, 2017)

TomS said:


> I've had Fenner Power Twist belts on my Enco RF-30 clone for about five years now and haven't had any noise or vibration issues.



Thanks Tom. Looks like I'm getting some link belts on my next trip to town. Might as well pick some up for the lathe too.


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## Cadillac STS (Nov 5, 2017)

I discovered the link belt for myself several years ago when I needed to change a belt on a lathe and would have had to take the head apart to get a new belt on. Turns out the link belt is better and I didn’t need to take the lathe apart to install it.


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## mksj (Nov 5, 2017)

Technically linked belts are directional, and the installation states this.  On something like a lathe where you are going forward and reverse, probably not an ideal choice. Also the issue of using them on small pulleys and as to speed specifications. If using higher motor speeds, there are better belt drive systems. In comparisons to standard belts that is a lot of different opinions. In many cases the issue is a problem with the OEM belt, in particular with Asian machines. Often they are poorly made, not even in dimension and take a set. There is also some discussion that to get a similar level of friction (prevent slip) that they need to be tensioned to a higher point then standard belts, and this can lead to premature bearing failure. This would make sense because the wrap contact interface is less. On the issue of vibration, once again often better than poorly made belts, but no better and maybe worse then a better well designed belt. 

Probably just about everyone who has bought a Asian mill or lathe, the first thing they do is replaced the belts. With small pulleys they do better with notched belts, and they are less likely to take a set. I have been using the Gates Tri-Power notched belts and they have worked very well, no doubt there are numerous other choices. I just wouldn't knock down standard belts vs. link belts because a machine came with a crappy belt. There are lots of choices, linked belts are a good choice where it is a PTA to change the belt or a short term fix (which is what they were designed for). Long term, when is the last time you saw a link belt used in a car or they came standard equipment with a machine. 
http://www.gates.com/products/autom...d-accessory-belt-drive-system/tri-power-belts


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## HBilly1022 (Nov 5, 2017)

mksj said:


> Technically linked belts are directional, and the installation states this.  On something like a lathe where you are going forward and reverse, probably not an ideal choice. Also the issue of using them on small pulleys and as to speed specifications. If using higher motor speeds, there are better belt drive systems. In comparisons to standard belts that is a lot of different opinions. In many cases the issue is a problem with the OEM belt, in particular with Asian machines. Often they are poorly made, not even in dimension and take a set. There is also some discussion that to get a similar level of friction (prevent slip) that they need to be tensioned to a higher point then standard belts, and this can lead to premature bearing failure. This would make sense because the wrap contact interface is less. On the issue of vibration, once again often better than poorly made belts, but no better and maybe worse then a better well designed belt.
> 
> Probably just about everyone who has bought a Asian mill or lathe, the first thing they do is replaced the belts. With small pulleys they do better with notched belts, and they are less likely to take a set. I have been using the Gates Tri-Power notched belts and they have worked very well, no doubt there are numerous other choices. I just wouldn't knock down standard belts vs. link belts because a machine came with a crappy belt. There are lots of choices, linked belts are a good choice where it is a PTA to change the belt or a short term fix (which is what they were designed for). Long term, when is the last time you saw a link belt used in a car or they came standard equipment with a machine.
> http://www.gates.com/products/autom...d-accessory-belt-drive-system/tri-power-belts
> ...


Excellent points. I never thought about running in reverse. My mill doesn't have reverse so that wouldn't be an issue but the lathe does. I have used the link belt on my smaller Asian lathe (in reverse too) and it has not been an issue, _yet!_ 

I'm sure the problem is with the poorly made belts that came with the machine. I can see the belts wobble horizontally and vertically as they turn. Can't be good for any part of the machine and the noise drives me nuts. I do like the fact that the belts are easier to install and are quiet butthey aren't cheap! But then again I haven't checked out the cost of quality V belts either.


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## mikey (Nov 5, 2017)

HBilly1022 said:


> I have an RF30 clone and am having vibrations issues with it too. I thought about going the link belt route but I read the 5/8" belts should not be run on a pulley smaller than 5" diameter. Some of the pulleys on my machine are smaller.
> 
> Mike, do you run the various pulleys with your Fenner belts or are you using a VFD or some other variable speed device and only using the larger pulleys?



Yup, run all the steps in the pulleys and have had no issues whatsoever. VFD is in the future, though.


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## HBilly1022 (Nov 5, 2017)

mikey said:


> Yup, run all the steps in the pulleys and have had no issues whatsoever. VFD is in the future, though.


Thanks Mike. Think I will go that route. 

Also thinking about the reversing issue ...... not sure that is an issue with the lathe. I think reverse on the lathe is accomplished through gearing, not by running the motor in reverse. Is that right?


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## mikey (Nov 6, 2017)

HBilly1022 said:


> Thanks Mike. Think I will go that route.
> 
> Also thinking about the reversing issue ...... not sure that is an issue with the lathe. I think reverse on the lathe is accomplished through gearing, not by running the motor in reverse. Is that right?



Yup, reverse on a lathe is through gearing, or a tumbler on older lathes.


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## mksj (Nov 6, 2017)

Reverse on a mill and a lathe are done by reversing the motor if done with a drum, rotary or spindle switch. I use reverse frequently when tapping on the mill and all the time on the lathe, but then that is my setup. Bottom line, if your belt is old, or was OEM on an Asian machine it is probably fit to be tossed. Belts, both wear out and become stiff with age, so like on your car need to be replaced over time.


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## HBilly1022 (Nov 6, 2017)

mksj said:


> Reverse on a mill and a lathe are done by reversing the motor if done with a drum, rotary or spindle switch. I use reverse frequently when tapping on the mill and all the time on the lathe, but then that is my setup. Bottom line, if your belt is old, or was OEM on an Asian machine it is probably fit to be tossed. Belts, both wear out and become stiff with age, so like on your car need to be replaced over time.



Now that you mention it, my smaller lathe (10 x 22) does have a switch to select forward or reverse and I'm pretty sure that switch reverses the motor. I will confirm on my next trip out to the shop. My larger lathe (12 x 36) has a forward / reverse handle on the carriage and I'm pretty sure that does not reverse the motor but I could be wrong and will also check that when I go out to the shop. My mill drill doesn't have a reverse feature but I know if it did, it would be accomplished by reversing the motor. I've had the motor on and off a few times when I first got it and note there is a wiring diagram inside it for running in reverse.

My small lathe is 2 years old, my mill drill about 1 year old and the 12 x 36 lathe is a few months old. All are of Asian origin and have the original belts on them. The only exception being the high speed belt on the small lathe. The belt that came with it was almost impossible to put on when changing to the higher speeds. I got a link belt for that  purpose and it works great. Very easy to install and runs very smooth. The belts on the 12 x 36 lathe cause some vibration and I will probably change those to link belts while I'm doing the other changes. The belts on the mill drill are horrible and cause a lot of vibration and NOISE from the plastic cover rattling. 

Edit: Went to the shop and checked. The motor on both lathes reverse. So may not be a good idea to use the link belts on them. While I was out there I figured I would pull the motor pulley belt from the mill drill and run the motor by itself just to see how much vibration was being caused by the belts. Turns out the belts aren't the problem. The MOTOR is causing the vibrations. 

Note to the OP: might want to check that on your machine. 

Now what? Is there a way to make these motors run smooth?


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## Cadillac STS (Nov 6, 2017)

HBilly1022 said:


> Now what? Is there a way to make these motors run smooth?



Yes one way to make the motors run smooth is replace them with a strong treadmill motor with speed control.  That way it will be smooth and have infinitely variable speed.


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## HBilly1022 (Nov 6, 2017)

Cadillac STS said:


> Yes one way to make the motors run smooth is replace them with a strong treadmill motor with speed control.  That way it will be smooth and have infinitely variable speed.



Looks like I need to find a cheap treadmill on Craigslist. Do they typically have powerful motors. My mill motor is 230V at 11 Amps (2 hp according to the label).

Did you solve the vibration isue with yours?


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## Cadillac STS (Nov 6, 2017)

HBilly1022 said:


> Looks like I need to find a cheap treadmill on Craigslist. Do they typically have powerful motors. My mill motor is 230V at 11 Amps (2 hp according to the label).
> 
> Did you solve the vibration isue with yours?



Search your local Craigslist for treadmill motor.  Someone may have already harvested the motor and controller and you would just need that.  

Some are strong can get a 4hp one so that won't be a problem

Search eBay for treadmill motor

Waiting on belts for mine.


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## Cadillac STS (Nov 9, 2017)

So got my 5/8 Fenner Power Twist belts on.  Took some time to get the two belts just the right length, one link larger or smaller makes a big difference and the pulleys and housing fit has a tight tolerance. It made a huge difference in shaking of the mill.  One unexpected issue was the top didn’t fit on because the belts stand a quarter inch or so over the edge of the pulley. I decided to trim the inner plastic on the double wall cover away and that let the top close and not rub. 

The post on replacing with high quality new v belts is a good idea and if I read that before ordering the Fenner I would have tried that first. Probably from the local NAPA for Gates belts then return if I didn’t like them. The old belts are original heavy and stiff and probably 10 years old.


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## HBilly1022 (Nov 9, 2017)

Cadillac STS said:


> So got my 5/8 Fenner Power Twist belts on.  Took some time to get the two belts just the right length, one link larger or smaller makes a big difference and the pulleys and housing fit has a tight tolerance. It made a huge difference in shaking of the mill.  One unexpected issue was the top didn’t fit on because the belts stand a quarter inch or so over the edge of the pulley. I decided to trim the inner plastic on the double wall cover away and that let the top close and not rub.
> 
> The post on replacing with high quality new v belts is a good idea and if I read that before ordering the Fenner I would have tried that first. Probably from the local NAPA for Gates belts then return if I didn’t like them. The old belts are original heavy and stiff and probably 10 years old.



Glad to hear that solved your problem! 

Wish mine was that simple but following your suggestion I did find a free treadmill on Kijiji that has a 2hp motor and controller that work. Going to pick it up and take it apart. At first I thought this would be easy but after a little research it appears there is a lot more to it than just mounting the motor and using the controls that come with it. I may be in over my head with this one.


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## NortonDommi (Nov 10, 2017)

Have you removed the pully from the motor and run up? I've seen quite a few pullys that the bore was not central on, also have you room to fit ribbed belts? these take tight turns and as they are run with little free deflection do not whip as much as a V-belt. Nice little turning project. I've fitted one to my drill press and intend to fit either a  ribbed or a  toothed belt to my lathe to replace the two B-section belts as with the flat back it is easy to fit an idler to further reduce any vibration plus ribbed belts are super quiet.


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## NortonDommi (Nov 10, 2017)

HBilly1022 said:


> Glad to hear that solved your problem!
> 
> Wish mine was that simple but following your suggestion I did find a free treadmill on Kijiji that has a 2hp motor and controller that work. Going to pick it up and take it apart. At first I thought this would be easy but after a little research it appears there is a lot more to it than just mounting the motor and using the controls that come with it. I may be in over my head with this one.


  Would these be of any use?


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## Cadillac STS (Nov 10, 2017)

Treadmill motors will have more than enough power.  

On our tools with motor off you can turn the spindle by hand on precision bearings.  When the motor is on and tool in use we carefully push a tool to the metal and move it across to take a few thou of metal off, sometimes drill a hole.  Barely disturbing the motor, far from bogging it down.

On a treadmill you would not be able to turn the pulley to the treadmill belt.  Bearings are industrial not precision.  The motor directly drives a large belt 2 feet wide and 12 feet long.  AND there is a 300 lb man jumping up and down on the belt.  Treadmill motor handles that.

So power to drive home hobby size tools not a problem.

Bonus since they are D/C with the controller you get infinite speed control.


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## HBilly1022 (Nov 10, 2017)

NortonDommi said:


> Would these be of any use?



YOU BET! Those are awesome and thank you. Maybe with those and a little help from the members I will be able to pull this off. 

As luck would have it, I'm going into the city on Tuesday and have found a used treadmill for free. Will pick it up then, unless the owner has given it away before I get there. She did say she would save it for me though. I would seriously LOVE to have variable speed on the mill and not have to change belts. It's a real PITA. I'm getting excited about this.


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## gbfab (Nov 20, 2017)

HBilly1022 said:


> YOU BET! Those are awesome and thank you. Maybe with those and a little help from the members I will be able to pull this off.
> 
> As luck would have it, I'm going into the city on Tuesday and have found a used treadmill for free. Will pick it up then, unless the owner has given it away before I get there. She did say she would save it for me though. I would seriously LOVE to have variable speed on the mill and not have to change belts. It's a real PITA. I'm getting excited about this.[/QU


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## gbfab (Nov 20, 2017)

I converted mine over to a 2.25hp treadmill about 1 year ago and it works great.  If you can find a mc-60 treadmill controller, they work the best.  Has the connectors for AC in, DC out, and plug for 3 wire pot.  You can buy them on Ebay for around $50.


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## Cadillac STS (Nov 20, 2017)

HBilly1022 said:


> YOU BET! Those are awesome and thank you. Maybe with those and a little help from the members I will be able to pull this off.
> 
> As luck would have it, I'm going into the city on Tuesday and have found a used treadmill for free. Will pick it up then, unless the owner has given it away before I get there. She did say she would save it for me though. I would seriously LOVE to have variable speed on the mill and not have to change belts. It's a real PITA. I'm getting excited about this.



With variable speed you can dial in the speed you need to make best cuts.  Need to know the speed though.

THIS is the best way to know the speed.  Mach Tach tachometer.  It gets speed from a sensor on the spindle and you see rpm real time.  Also can see SFM Surface feet per minute, dial in the diameter of your end mill for a mill or stock in a lathe and it tells you how fast it is going at the surface.

http://www.machtach.com

Can get it on eBay.  Comes as a kit so need to be ready to solder components to a printed circuit board.  Very easy couple hour project if you can solder.  I have one on my lathe and mill.  Excellent tool for variable speed.


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## HBilly1022 (Nov 20, 2017)

I picked up a free treadmill the other day and it has a "2hp" motor in it. Don't know what kind of controller but will delve into that more when I get around to this project. There are a few projects above this one on the to do list. lol.

gbfab, your mill looks similar to mine. Do you have any pics of the conversion or a thread about the project?

Cadillac, you're right I will definitely need a tach and thanks for the link. Soldering shouldn't be problem, although I've never soldered anything to a circuit board _yet_.


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## Shotgun (Jun 29, 2021)

This is an old thread, but some of the info needs updating.

The best controller for a treadmill motor (IMHO) is the MC2100.  You can get a signal generator for about $10.  Set it to 20Hz, and the duty cycle varies between 20% and 80%.  The duty cycle controls the speed.  Using a handheld tachometer, I made a chart of duty cycle vs spindle speed.  Keep the pulleys, I have both a low and high spindle speed.  Stays on low most of the time, with a max spindle speed of about 1,000rpm.

The connector that the signal generator feeds into will also provide power for 12V LED lighting, and I'm still investigating using the incline control for a powered head lift.


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