# Questions about a Sharp Mill



## 7milesup (May 22, 2022)

I have a PM833T but I am seriously considering selling it and replacing it with a PM935, which seems to be a popular go-to for the hobby crowd.  Just last night a Sharp vertical mill popped up for sale a couple of hours away from me.  I do not know anything about them, so any insight would be great.  They are asking $6500 but claim to be negotiable.  

From their ad:
_"For sale Sharp mill that is fitted with a Trak A.G.E 2 two axis control. This machine is in very nice condition and is set up with ball screws. The pendant control was replace by Stone Machinery about 6 years ago and the machine has had very little use since then.The monitor is crystal clear with no fading. You can program conversationally at the control or load files via floppy disk. The machine is very tight and reliable and I am the 2nd owner. It has chrome ways which are in very nice almost new condition. A power drawbar makes loading and unloading tools a snap. I bought a Trak bed mill and that is the reason that I am selling this one. I am asking $6,500 but would be open to an offer. It takes R8 collets just like a Bridgeport mill. The vise and drill chucks do not go with it but the collets do. I am the 2nd owner."_

Space is a little bit of concern for me, but probably could make it work.  Is that black box on the backside of the mill part of the mill or is it just something piled there?


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## mmcmdl (May 22, 2022)

If I needed it , I would be on it .   Sharp makes a great mill and it looks like it is similar to a Prototrac controller . Simple to program . Very useful mill ! Get on the horse and haul it home !  It can be used manually also if needed .


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## rabler (May 22, 2022)

Don't know anything specifically about it specifically, but I'd certainly check it out I was in the market.  Power drawbar and CNC/manual in a recognized name mill.


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## JimDawson (May 22, 2022)

Sharp machine are top quality.


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## matthewsx (May 22, 2022)

Looks like a hobby type environment so may not have much wear either....


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## JRaut (May 22, 2022)

I’ve never used a Sharp before.

But I’ve heard it said that genuine Bridgeports are just cheap knockoffs of the far superior Sharp.


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## FOMOGO (May 22, 2022)

Sharp has a very good rep. I would be on it if close to me. Offer 5k and see if he bites, but even at asking price it's not a bad deal, if as described. Mike


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## Aukai (May 22, 2022)

Don't walk RUN, check it out well, it won't last long.


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## JRaut (May 22, 2022)

One other comment. 

I’ve got 2-axis CNC capabilities on my Bridgeport and find them quite indispensable.

Where (with a fully manual machine) you might have to break out a rotary table and indicate several things in to mill a simple rounded corner in a part, quickly entering the correct radius in the control spits out the result in a tiny fraction of the time.

It’s just awesome, and doesn’t feel quite so much as cheating as a full CNC rig might.


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## davidpbest (May 22, 2022)

Get the Sharp.  Run.  Run fast.


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## mksj (May 22, 2022)

I have the same mill (manual), it is made by First Industries of Taiwan, and both Sharp and Acra put their name plates on them. Great mill and looks in very good condition, and a lot of mill for the price. Limitations of ball screws is that when used in a manual mode, they do not stay in position so one needs to be very careful when doing climb cutting. I am not sure of when using the servos under power feed with the pendent if they lock when they stop. I did use a Large Lagun mill with a similar CNC system and ball screws, it was extremely smooth and easy to use. A big step up from a bench mill. Major limitation is moving the mill, ideally if you can rend a drop deck trailer it makes it much easier to get onto the trailer.

The head is a mechanical Reeves drive so make sure it is quiet through the speed range, should be a 3 phase machine so you will need a RPC or possibly drive the motor with a VFD at 60 Hz, use the mechanical drive to adjust the speed.


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## 7milesup (May 22, 2022)

All excellent replies guys.  I did talk to the seller.   He said it was an early 90's vintage and was in a two-man die shop, in other words, not a production environment.  It has chromed ways which he said look like they are still new.  He is the second owner, has not used it much, and is replacing it with a bed mill (I believe that is what he said).
Since this mill is two hours away, he is going to be getting me a video of it running.

I am having heart palpitations about how big this thing is, how to move it, and if I will have any room left in my shop to work around it.
I have attached a picture of my setup.  The 833 would be sold.  The large work/welding table can be moved to the left about 8".  I was planning on cleaning the aluminum metal drops up and either tossing them or organizing them.
Why does my shop always look like a disaster?


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## matthewsx (May 22, 2022)

It'll go fine in that space. Send him a deposit and go rent a drop deck trailer, you're looking for an upgrade and this is clearly it. Put out a call to other hobby machinist members in your area to see who can help.

John


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## Cadillac (May 22, 2022)

The footprint is not gonna change much. Imagine you have 5‘5” buddy standing in the corner weighing in at 150 pounds. Now switch that buddy with a 6’5” linebacker weighing in at 350 pounds. Still gonna be the same footprint just bigger and beefier in every way. it will be a great upgrade in my book.


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## mmcmdl (May 22, 2022)

Just get it . You won't look back ! That is a nice mill .


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## woodchucker (May 22, 2022)

yea, that will fit.
you have a ton of under utilized space.


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## 7milesup (May 22, 2022)

Well, $500 down. Remainder due in a few days.  Just need to come up with a plan to get it home. 

He sent me a few videos of it running, including the full speed range.  It sounded smooth.  I know that a lot of guys wouldn't buy something sight unseen, but I also knew that it would be gone.


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## woodchucker (May 22, 2022)

Congratulations. I'll second the drop bed trailer. I've seen them make life easy.


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## IamNotImportant (May 22, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> Congratulations. I'll second the drop bed trailer. I've seen them make life easy.


who rents drop deck trailers


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## matthewsx (May 22, 2022)

Moving something like this is done with your brain, not muscles.

Plenty of good threads on here about how to get it done but the main thing is don't be afraid to ask for help. Members here are a great source, you can also ask your local machine shops who moves their stuff, two hours drive might make sense to check with local movers or even flat bed tow operators.

Best and safest way is with a forklift and/or telehandler lift from the ram with wood blocking and keep it low. Even if it costs you $1k to get it safely into your shop you still have a bargain.

Just don't get in a hurry and end up like this guy....









						Tragic - Hardinge HLV-H - $6,000 (campbell)
					

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/d/san-jose-hardinge-hlv/7486735753.html




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




John


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## matthewsx (May 22, 2022)

IamNotImportant said:


> who rents drop deck trailers


I rented from these guys in Salinas, CA. Chances are pretty good they either have one or can get it.



			https://www.unitedrentals.com/locations/wi/chippewa-fls/equipment-tool-rentals/f28


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## mmcmdl (May 22, 2022)

Drop trailers are 60 bucks a day here and well worth the money unless you already have a trailer . BPs and lathes are easy if you have a winch on a regular trailer .


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## Tipton1965 (May 22, 2022)

Little late to the show but I sure am glad you bought that Sharp mill.  You won't be disappointed.  I have the same ACRA mill as Mark and completely love it.  Nice upgrade!!  I'm happy for you.


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## IamNotImportant (May 22, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> I rented from these guys in Salinas, CA. Chances are pretty good they either have one or can get it.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.unitedrentals.com/locations/wi/chippewa-fls/equipment-tool-rentals/f28


don't have one of those close to where i am ..


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## mksj (May 22, 2022)

I have the Sharp LMV mill manual with parts, if you PM me your email I will send it to you, it is too big to download to this site. A number of use have this model, so let us know if you have any questions once if everything goes through. They are very nice mills.


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## Aukai (May 22, 2022)

Jeff "Janderson" Has this mill too.


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## 7milesup (May 22, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> Drop trailers are 60 bucks a day here and well worth the money unless you already have a trailer . BPs and lathes are easy if you have a winch on a regular trailer .


The only trailer I have that would work is a 6x12 tandem axle dump, but I think it is too high.  Just the thought of getting the mill off of a trailer like that makes my knees shake.

@matthewsx  Thanks for pointing out United Rentals.  I will give them a call tomorrow.


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## mmcmdl (May 22, 2022)

7milesup said:


> The only trailer I have that would work is a 6x12 tandem axle dump, but I think it is too high. Just the thought of getting the mill off of a trailer like that makes my knees shake.


If you can winch it on , rent a forklift to get it off at your place . As far as the dump trailer , I moved 3 mills and a 17" lathe in one with no issues but had the Bobcat here to unload them . Either usamech or Jason on here came up the house with a drop bed . That was a sweet trailer that made life easy . I googled the price .........................................ouch .


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## NCjeeper (May 22, 2022)

IamNotImportant said:


> who rents drop deck trailers


Sunbelt Rentals does.


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## Manual Mac (May 23, 2022)

I ran a Sharp almost identical to this machine For 20 years.
an absolute Gem of a machine.
will be money well spent.


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## mmcmdl (May 23, 2022)

7milesup said:


> Why does my shop always look like a disaster?


Haha , you're still an amateur in this department . Wanna see a REAL disaster ?   

Good luck with the mill , fingers crossed .


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## 7milesup (May 23, 2022)

I have a hydraulic trailer rented for the end of this week (two-day rental).  If I go that route, what would be the best/safest way to move it off of the trailer and into my shop?  The other option is to hire a telehandler and have them offload it, but now we are starting to get into some serious money.  The seller has a rigger friend that will lift and load onto my trailer for $350, which I am pretty much committed to since he (nor I) have any other way of loading it.
So, what would be a good method to unload it?  I was thinking 3/4" pipe "rollers" under it, but how do I lift it enough to get the pipes under it?  I am assuming a large prybar or two may work?  I am looking for ideas/suggestions.  Thanks!


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## 7milesup (May 23, 2022)

I believe that this is the trailer I have my name on...


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## Tipton1965 (May 23, 2022)

I watched this vid awhile back.  It shows how he loaded his Bridgeport but not how he unloaded it.  But I'm sure he just reversed the technique for unloading.  Do you have a pallet jack?


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## jarhead (May 23, 2022)

we used 1" pipes across the bottom to roll mine on and off the drop trailer and in to my shop. We had 4 pipes but only had two at a time under the mill. We'd roll it just far enough and keep adding another pipe.


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## Jake P (May 23, 2022)

Congratulations Neil!  That’s one sweet machine, exciting times.


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## 7milesup (May 23, 2022)

Tipton1965 said:


> I watched this vid awhile back.  It shows how he loaded his Bridgeport but not how he unloaded it.  But I'm sure he just reversed the technique for unloading.  Do you have a pallet jack?


Yes, I do have a pallet jack.  Just looked and it has a 5000lb rating, in fact it is the same one the gentleman has in the video.

EDIT:  After watching that video, it seems like this hydraulic trailer coupled with my pallet jack might be just the ticket.


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## woodchucker (May 23, 2022)

7milesup said:


> Yes, I do have a pallet jack.  Just looked and it has a 5000lb rating, in fact it is the same one the gentleman has in the video.
> 
> EDIT:  After watching that video, it seems like this hydraulic trailer coupled with my pallet jack might be just the ticket.


go find a heavy duty pallet, or beef up a pallet with 2x4s or 2x6s after removing the top slats off.
Have the rigger put it on the pallet in your trailer.  Also it would be good to have help at home. If not, attach a rope to the front end of the trailer cab.. use it to slow the mill down , don't think you are going to slow it down that easily on the ramp... the rope around the bar will offer enough friction to make it easy to control it.  as far as getting it off the pallet. cribbing, and lower it a little at a time.  Help is your best option too... it allows you to talk it over and see things the other might not see.


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## Aukai (May 23, 2022)

When my 9 x 50 was put in place the pallet size was cut down, and the spacing of the wood left the edge of the mill open. I was able to crib the mill up with pry bars, and 2 x 4s then pulled out the pallet. It was stressful, but it never felt dangerous, or out of balance getting it on the ground. You might want to see if you would like it on risers, and get those ready also.


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## mmcmdl (May 23, 2022)

That drop trailer will put that machine at ground level . I just push or pull the mill or lathe around with the Kubota with no issues . Even a pickum up truck will pull this mill . It is going into a garage or somewhere with a concrete floor ? Pipes and skids just make more work in my eyes , but my garage floor is easy accesable , which yours may not be . 

Oh btw , it didn't happen without pics !


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## mksj (May 23, 2022)

You will want to lower the knee and swing down the head (remove the power drawbar) to lower the CG, you will want a ratchet to pull the mill up into the trailer. See if you can remove the DRO/CNC control head, light, etc. as you do not want that bouncing around on the trip. You still need a means to lift the mill (2T hoist or check if he can block it up in advance so you can get the pallet jack under the mill and it still will be tippy. Once in the trailer, bring some 2x4s or similar, a saw and electric drill with screws, so you  crib the base into place. I recommend wrapping the mill with some packing stretch plastic wrap (get a roll). Be careful with tie downs placement that they are not over sharp corners that can break the strapping nor likely to damage something on the mill. As Woodchucker mentioned, use a line or a reversing ratchet winch when loading/unloading, with the weight it can be very hard to move and once it gets moving very hard to stop.

Make sure you get all the manuals, parts, handles, etc. for the mill as it is very easy to forget stuff in the loading process.

I have my mill on a rolling base which also has feet that can raise the base about 3" so it is easier to move with a fork lift for loading.


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## Beckerkumm (May 23, 2022)

I have a drop deck and just keep in mind that the 2" lip to the floor seems like nothing until you start a pallet jack down with a top heavy load.  then it mimics the Grand Canyon.  I put the pallet jack on so that I'm pulling rather than pushing.  As the wheels go down the little ramp, the arms can touch the deck.  I raise the machine up so the arms will scrape when descending and then feather the jack to raise the arms just enough to send the jack farther down a little at a time.  Speed is your enemy and there is no way to stop on the way down, even for two inches.  Friction is your friend.  Dave


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## 7milesup (May 23, 2022)

mksj said:


> You will want to lower the knee and swing down the head (remove the power drawbar) to lower the CG, you will want a ratchet to pull the mill up into the trailer. See if you can remove the DRO/CNC control head, light, etc. as you do not want that bouncing around on the trip.


The seller rotated the head for me already.  He said to get some help to bring it back to vertical, not that theworm drive can't do it, just that it helps to have someone give a hand. 




Beckerkumm said:


> I raise the machine up so the arms will scrape when descending and then feather the jack to raise the arms just enough to send the jack farther down a little at a time. Speed is your enemy and there is no way to stop on the way down, even for two inches. Friction is your friend. Dave


Yes!  Excellent point.  I have used this method with other things I have purchased.  I actually did that with my tractor and pallet forks when I was unloading a large machine table.  I am not going to use my tractor for this move though because I feel that I would have more control doing it with ratchets and such.


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## 7milesup (May 23, 2022)

My shop has easy peasy access to it, and a very flat floor. I just need to move all my crap aside.


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## JRaut (May 23, 2022)

You should be able to pick it and move it around with that engine hoist you've got.

For a Bridgeport anyway, the feet on a standard engine hoist are --- just barely --- wide enough to clear the narrow dimension of the base. Hook it up from the lifting eye on the ram. The ram can be moved in/out as appropriate so that it hangs level. Then you can just wheel it across your shop into position.

May not work if the 'foot' on the Sharp is much bigger than that of a Bridgeport.


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## ddickey (May 23, 2022)

Neil, 
I hired a tow truck when I got my First/Sharp/Acra home but mine was bolted to a pallet. The truck had a boom and lifted it up off of the pallet for me. I think I paid him $40. Being on a pallet made it easier as I could use a pallet jack, sort of.
Rent it in Brooklyn Park have giant size engine hoists that might work. It worked well for my lathe but that's obviously lower than your mill.


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## Ischgl99 (May 23, 2022)

This video shows a guy getting a mill on and off a drop trailer with a mobile base that looks like it would be somewhat similar to how you might do it with a pallet jack.


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## davidpbest (May 23, 2022)

Neil, good luck with the move - check your messages here.  I send you a DM.


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## rabler (May 24, 2022)

In terms of space, have you thought about building a rack for the lumber? Being able to sort wood on a rack and have some additional space underneath for other storage would be high on my list. I've restacked lumber piles that size too many times when the wood I needed was near the bottom.  (Yours may all be the same type of wood.) 

I saw a sign at the local farm store, "My shop, My rules", which I may have to go buy.  So just a suggestion, run your shop as you see fit.


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## woodchucker (May 24, 2022)

rabler said:


> In terms of space, have you thought about building a rack for the lumber? Being able to sort wood on a rack and have some additional space underneath for other storage would be high on my list. I've restacked lumber piles that size too many times when the wood I needed was near the bottom.  (Yours may all be the same type of wood.)
> 
> I saw a sign at the local farm store, "My shop, My rules", which I may have to go buy.  So just a suggestion, run your shop as you see fit.


also it keeps the wood from picking up the salts from the concrete. Which ruins the bottom wood unless it's stickered quite a bit.


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## 7milesup (May 24, 2022)

rabler said:


> In terms of space, have you thought about building a rack for the lumber? Being able to sort wood on a rack and have some additional space underneath for other storage would be high on my list. I've restacked lumber piles that size too many times when the wood I needed was near the bottom.  (Yours may all be the same type of wood.)
> 
> I saw a sign at the local farm store, "My shop, My rules", which I may have to go buy.  So just a suggestion, run your shop as you see fit.


That big pile of wood you see there is knotty oak, which is destined for trim in our house.   It is a project that I will be starting on very soon and that 1200bf of lumber will start to disappear rather quickly.   The wall that the hydraulic press and air compressor are up against has a wood rack on the other side where my cabinet grade material is located.  I also have a sheet goods rack on the other side of the wall too.  The area where my Kubota (which isn't supposed to be in my shop either...long story) is to be my metalworking area only.  The other side of the shop is dedicated to woodworking.  For reference the shop is 36x36.


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## rabler (May 24, 2022)

7milesup said:


> That big pile of wood you see there is knotty oak, which is destined for trim in our house.   It is a project that I will be starting on very soon and that 1200bf of lumber will start to disappear rather quickly.   The wall that the hydraulic press and air compressor are up against has a wood rack on the other side where my cabinet grade material is located.  I also have a sheet goods rack on the other side of the wall too.  The area where my Kubota (which isn't supposed to be in my shop either...long story) is to be my metalworking area only.  The other side of the shop is dedicated to woodworking.  For reference the shop is 36x36.


Neil,
LOL, this sounds like something I would face.  Re-arranging things to keep up with the hobbies, home maintenance, tractor maintenace and general juggling of projects that need doing so other projects can be done.


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## 7milesup (May 26, 2022)

Welp, it is home.  It was a very long and stressful day but she is home. 

I would also like to say that this sucker is BIG.  "Oh yeah Neil, it is about the same footprint as your other one".  Um, no.  Nice try guys.    

The trailer did not track worth a crap, so I was limited to 55mph, which made the 225 or so mile trip rather long and tiresome.  I made the pallet out of some 4x4s and two pieces of LVL bolted to the 4x4s.  I drilled the hole pattern in the pallet (thanks to @mksj for sending me that manual) and everything lined up and dropped into place.  

Now to sell my 833T and get some power hooked up to this beast.


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## woodchucker (May 26, 2022)

7milesup said:


> Welp, it is home.  It was a very long and stressful day but she is home.
> 
> I would also like to say that this sucker is BIG.  "Oh yeah Neil, it is about the same footprint as your other one".  Um, no.  Nice try guys.
> 
> ...



Congratulations on your new mill. You are gonna love it.  And you get a BIG YOU SUCK.. enjoy it.


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## Tipton1965 (May 26, 2022)

Nice!  I'd say now you can clean it up but it already looks pretty clean.


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## Aukai (May 26, 2022)

There is someone in the want to buy thread looking for a mill. The Sharp looks awesome.


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## Jake P (May 26, 2022)

Glad to hear you’re home safe Neil, the mill looks awesome!  Fun times ahead


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## matthewsx (May 26, 2022)

Always nice when someone posts a "should I buy this" and it turns out well. I'd say you have the upgrade you were looking for and then some. Glad to hear the move went smoothly (I wouldn't want to drive much faster than 55mph anyway with that load)....

Looking forward to seeing it in place in it's "forever home"   

John


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## davidpbest (May 27, 2022)

The mill looks terrific. Nice truck too.


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## ddickey (May 27, 2022)

Where did you have to go, Madison?


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## Firstram (May 27, 2022)

The bad handling probably could have been solved by lowering the coupler on the trailer. You had the mill far enough forward in the bed but, the trailer was tilting down enough that the rear axle wasn't doing much. This effectively reduced your tongue weight! Multi axle trailers *must* be level when loaded, bad things can happen quickly!

In a pinch, you can stop the wagging by adding weight over the truck's rear axle. Stop at Lowe's for 6 bags of play sand and pile them against the tailgate, 300 lbs makes a huge difference! (Or your wife's favorite mulch)

Beautiful mill, congratulations!


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## mmcmdl (May 27, 2022)

Where's that Kubota going to reside now ? Hopefully not outside in the elements !


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## Tipton1965 (May 27, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> The mill looks terrific. Nice truck too.


I was thinking the same thing about the house.  I love the paint colors too.


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## 7milesup (May 27, 2022)

Jake P said:


> Glad to hear you’re home safe Neil, the mill looks awesome!  Fun times ahead


Thanks Jake!  Yep, exciting times 



davidpbest said:


> The mill looks terrific. Nice truck too.


Thank you David!


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## 7milesup (May 27, 2022)

ddickey said:


> Where did you have to go, Madison?


No, I had to go to Eau Claire to pick up the trailer (46 miles) and then over to Savage, MN (107 miles).  Pick it up in Savage then home (119 miles) and then the trailer went back to Eau Claire (another 92 miles round trip).  
The trailer would get really wild at anything over 58 miles an hour.  It was so short coupled, plus the fact that it doesn't have axles (the hubs are bolted to the frame) so who knows where caster, camber, and toe-in were set.  Once the mill was on, I never went over 55mph and took it real easy around any corners.  Oh, and it was about 4:45 when I got the mill loaded up and started out of the Cities... Two days before a holiday weekend.  Uggghh.


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## 7milesup (May 27, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> Where's that Kubota going to reside now ? Hopefully not outside in the elements !


Oh heck no!  It will end up back in the shop.  In the meantime my truck will sit out.  LOL


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## 7milesup (May 27, 2022)

Tipton1965 said:


> I was thinking the same thing about the house.  I love the paint colors too.


I probably shouldn't do this but here is a couple of pictures of the backside.   We are 60ft up on a hill overlooking a river.  All woods around us.  In fact, as I sit here writing this a doe and her fawn were just 30-40 ft down from the house and a bald eagle flew by a moment ago. No joke.


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## Tipton1965 (May 27, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I probably shouldn't do this but here is a couple of pictures of the backside.   We are 60ft up on a hill overlooking a river.  All woods around us.  In fact, as I sit here writing this a doe and her fawn were just 30-40 ft down from the house and a bald eagle flew by a moment ago. No joke.


Beautiful home!  I live in a similar setting.  I have a deer that lives on the property that acts like a dog.  It sleeps up by the house and is not as afraid as most deer are.  We have bald eagles as well.  The last time I saw one it was at the neighbors eating one of his chickens.


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## Beckerkumm (May 27, 2022)

Very nice.  Drop deck trailers that have been overloaded get the wheel adjustments screwed up and track poorly, especially around curves as the tires tend to tilt in opposite directions.  The other issue is when loading, you need to mark the center between the wheels on the deck.  When the deck lowers it heads backwards so when you load it is difficult to judge where the weight should be.  The mill looked a little too far forward and shifting 12" makes all the difference on the road.

I'm in Wis Rapids and have lots of stories of coming from the Twin Cities through Eau Claire.  Went to school there in the 70's.  Good luck, Dave


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## 7milesup (May 27, 2022)

Tipton1965 said:


> The last time I saw one it was at the neighbors eating one of his chickens.


Cripes!!   Well, that is the way it goes.  We have to keep an eye on our small dogs too around here.  Coyotes, raccoons, bears, and fischers just to name a few predators around here.


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## 7milesup (May 27, 2022)

Beckerkumm said:


> Very nice.  Drop deck trailers that have been overloaded get the wheel adjustments screwed up and track poorly, especially around curves as the tires tend to tilt in opposite directions.  The other issue is when loading, you need to mark the center between the wheels on the deck.  When the deck lowers it heads backwards so when you load it is difficult to judge where the weight should be.  The mill looked a little too far forward and shifting 12" makes all the difference on the road.
> 
> I'm in Wis Rapids and have lots of stories of coming from the Twin Cities through Eau Claire.  Went to school there in the 70's.  Good luck, Dave


Thanks for checking in Dave and for the advice!  If you are in the area let me know and we can get together.


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## rabler (May 27, 2022)

Some nice country up there, although I have to say U.S. 53, especially north of Spooner, was always a dreaded section to drive.  Usually hit it at 3AM. Too often at sub-zero temps


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## wachuko (May 28, 2022)

Congratulations!!!

And I can relate to the experience of seeing it in photos and then in person… these machines are huge!

You are going to have a lot of fun with it


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