# Disappointed in abilities with 12" Logan



## Investigator

I'm very frustrated, somewhat with my machine but mostly with me.   The short version is I need a steady rest but cant find one.

My 2537 12" turret lathe has been making chips for a while now.  I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a machinist, but I have been able to make what I have needed so for.  All of my projects have been small.  I've made bushings and and a few odd parts here and there.  This is just me in my shop at home for fun.  
But I have a big project to work on for myself.  I have been planning on making a few suppressors for my rifles.  I've got all the legalities covered and all is on the up and up.

The issue is I have some 4140 round bar about 14" long to make the baffles out of.  Baffles will be 60* cones to fit inside a 1.5"ID tube.  The best, as I understand it, way to make them is chuck the bar up, and use a steady rest to support it while I work a baffle at a time on the far end.  So that means I need a steady which didn't come with the lathe.

Necessity is  a mother, so I make a steady.........The first version was a hexagon shape about 10" diameter.  I'm sure you can already see the problem.  I made it from .5x.750" bar stock, welded, threaded 120* apart.  It looked good, but when I put it on and turned the machine by hand, there was so much flex in the fingers I was afraid to even turn the machine on.  So back to the drawing board.

The second steady was made from wood.  I used 3 layers of 3/4" birch glued and screwed together.  I had a 4" hole in the center and again fingers at 120* apart.  The fingers were 1/2-13 bolts which I turned and tipped with brass.  Unfortunatly there is too much movement in the wood itself I guess.  As I start to take light cuts on the surface, it works loose and starts flexing. I have been watching Ebay and can't find a Logan Steady rest and dont know if anything else will fit.

I'm really disappointed in my self and in the project so far.  So much so I had to just leave the shop.  As bad as it sounds I am considering selling the Logan and getting a new import  lathe that comes with a steady and tail stock, which I also don't have and would like to have.  Right now my project is stopped and I can't do anything about it.

I just wanted to try to share the weight on my shoulders, confession being good for the soul and all, and share my tale of woe.


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## markba633csi

Take a look at some factory steady rests and some home brew ones too, get some inspiration before the perspiration.  I would put roller bearings on the tips if I was making one.  Not a project I could whip out in a day- more like a couple weeks or more.  Don't give up. 
Mark


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## agfrvf

For some unknown reason there is a tax on 12" steady rests.


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## Investigator

markba633csi said:


> Not a project I could whip out in a day- more like a couple weeks or more.  Don't give up.
> Mark



Thats part of the issue.  I've already spent over 3 weeks working on building steady rests, and I am no closer to having a working one that I was when I started.


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## Bill Gruby

Search "Steady Rest" on this Forum. You will find a few that were built by our members.

 "Billy G"


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## markba633csi

Probably it takes more strength and rigidity than you realized, that's why they often are made of cast iron.  Also why you often find broken ones for sale LOL  It's not an easy device to build though, a lot of details to work out
M


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## Investigator

markba633csi said:


> Probably it takes more strength and rigidity than you realized, that's why they often are made of cast iron.  Also why you often find broken ones for sale LOL  It's not an easy device to build though, a lot of details to work out
> M



I agree.  the bar is 2" round, 14" long trying to turn at about 200 RPM.  I have no idea how to figure the force involved, but it has to be huge.  I think what I built would work for cutting the 1.625" tubing, as it is only .058" wall thickness.  But the solid bar is too much mass.


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## Uglydog

I'd keep the Logan unless she is very tired over any new shiny machine. But, that's my old iron preference.
Making one is a definite option. Just gotta find the best combination.
Did you see this post. Possibly more than you want to pay. However, there is more there than just the steady!!
Don't know the seller. Have not seen the parts...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOGAN-12-i...654365?hash=item4b3751ca9d:g:2GsAAOSw38BaaObL

Daryl
MN


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## Uglydog

I just got called a local friend who is not a HM member. 
He has a barn full of misc. He is pretty sure that he has something in that size range.
PM me if you want his contact information. If not an actual bolt on, you might be able to make one of his work using one of his steadys.
I'm sure the price would be very right.

Daryl
MN


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## jwmay

http://store.lathe.com/ceandstre.html


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## Uglydog

jwmay said:


> http://store.lathe.com/ceandstre.html



I've found Scott Logan to be fair priced and easy to work with.

Daryl
MN


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## jwmay

Just to follow up my link, I understand your frustrations. I had similar troubles, and my solution was to buy an import. I’m very happy with it. But I’ll always be watching for another old lathe like what you have.  And the fact that it’s still supported is pretty incredible.


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## Holescreek

A long time ago I made a spider for my lathe for this type of thing. It takes a very large bearing and some cold rolled steel







The cage around the bearing has set screws in the middle of the bearing pockets to give some adjustment to place the bearing on the center of the spindle axis.  I've only had to reset the center once after I took the frame apart to turn the bearing around 180 degrees.  The four screws on the aluminum collar take care of centering your project metal.

Here you can see it in use holding material for my form1 can:




It also works very well for holding long barrels steady at the end for chambering.  No friction, excess material strength needed.


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## Silverbullet

There have been several built on YouTube , some by hobbiest and others professional . But the heavier the steady the better. Ill add some names to look at. Nic C Colyer is in the end stages of a pretty good build on one. If I remember Oxtool did one awhile ago.
Don't they usually use aluminum for the baffles and the tube for silencers??


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## Investigator

Uglydog said:


> I'd keep the Logan unless she is very tired over any new shiny machine. But, that's my old iron preference.
> Making one is a definite option. Just gotta find the best combination.
> Did you see this post. Possibly more than you want to pay. However, there is more there than just the steady!!
> Don't know the seller. Have not seen the parts...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOGAN-12-i...654365?hash=item4b3751ca9d:g:2GsAAOSw38BaaObL
> 
> Daryl
> MN



Thanks, I did see that.  I already have the 5c collet parts for the lathe.  Overall I got a tremendous deal on the Logan and what came with it.  She's in pretty fair to good shape, got some backlash in the dials but that is easy enough to work around.  with the lack of a steady or a tail stock, other than the turret, I have been unable to make a test bar to see just what she is capable off.  But so far the tolerance I can hold is worse than what the lathe will do.

Personal question if you don't mind, it looks from your avatar you are a firefighter.  Full time? part time? where at?  I've been 25 years with Mesquite FD outside Dallas Texas,  now an Arson Investigator there.


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## Uglydog

18years paid on call FF Dayton MN. ~300calls/year. 
Was training officer for 16 of those.
Long time Paramedic for a metro EMS agency and retired Paramedic Instructor (17years teaching).
Still work EMS 2times week for small rural service. 
Looking forward to not renewing anything!
I've seen enough... I'm guessing you understand.

Daryl
MN


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## Silverbullet

You can buy a used one near your size and machine a base to your ways . I've been planning on doing it for my logan.


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## Nogoingback

There's a Logan 12" steady rest on eBay right now.


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## mikey

Would this work?
http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-9.html


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## wa5cab

Another alternative would be to acquire a tailstock.  And yet another would be to buy a live center and replace the probably either 2MT or 3MT arbor with a straight one that fits the turret.  As the turret does not have a ram, be sure that the arbor is long enough not to restrict the carriage from getting close enough to the end of the work piece


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## Alittlerusty

As silverbullet said u can get one slightly smaller and add a base plate to get it up to center.


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## Investigator

I'm wondering.....rather than ebay, I found that grizzly sells the entire steady rest  assembly for their 8, 9, 10 and 11 inch lathes for around 100 bucks.  Just wondering if buying one and using an adapter plate on bottom would be a lower cost, but workable option.


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## LEEQ

for the money it sounds like a good place to start, you might need a mill to fit the adapter plate. If you wanted to go forward with your project while you hunt rests and tailstocks, you might consider a design with baffles made one at a time. Assuming of course that the design change is all legal.


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## joe from N.Y.

Maybe a brother in here living nearby can lend you the before a short term use.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Terrywerm

Investigator said:


> I'm wondering.....rather than ebay, I found that grizzly sells the entire steady rest  assembly for their 8, 9, 10 and 11 inch lathes for around 100 bucks.  Just wondering if buying one and using an adapter plate on bottom would be a lower cost, but workable option.



You certainly could do that. If I recall correctly, some of the older Logans used the same steady rest for both the 10" and 11" machines, with the steady rest for the 11" having a spacer beneath it. I believe the 12" machines used a different steady rest that was both larger in diameter and built heavier.

There also used to be a seller on eBay that sold generic steady rests in various sizes, I don't know if those are still available or not.


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## cg285

here is a kit. http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-9.html
i have one partially finished when i lucked out and found a new one on ebay for my clausing metosa.
if you like i could sell you mine assuming i can find it
(forgot to hit the post button yesterday so someone beat me to it)


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## ThunderDog

Holescreek said:


> A long time ago I made a spider for my lathe for this type of thing. It takes a very large bearing and some cold rolled steel
> 
> View attachment 257445
> 
> 
> View attachment 257446
> 
> 
> The cage around the bearing has set screws in the middle of the bearing pockets to give some adjustment to place the bearing on the center of the spindle axis.  I've only had to reset the center once after I took the frame apart to turn the bearing around 180 degrees.  The four screws on the aluminum collar take care of centering your project metal.
> 
> Here you can see it in use holding material for my form1 can:
> 
> View attachment 257447
> 
> 
> It also works very well for holding long barrels steady at the end for chambering.  No friction, excess material strength needed.



Nice, I could only wonder the price of that bearing purchased brand new.


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## Holescreek

ThunderDog said:


> Nice, I could only wonder the price of that bearing purchased brand new.



I looked it up once, >$400.  I paid $25.  I have another large bearing (not near as large) I picked up at a flea market for $5 that I'm going to use to make a spider for my Clausing lathe.   The only trick to making these is getting the bearing ID on center with the spindle axis. With the adjustment screws in the frame it's a cinch.


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## Downunder Bob

Investigator said:


> I'm very frustrated, somewhat with my machine but mostly with me.   The short version is I need a steady rest but cant find one.
> 
> My 2537 12" turret lathe has been making chips for a while now.  I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a machinist, but I have been able to make what I have needed so for.  All of my projects have been small.  I've made bushings and and a few odd parts here and there.  This is just me in my shop at home for fun.
> But I have a big project to work on for myself.  I have been planning on making a few suppressors for my rifles.  I've got all the legalities covered and all is on the up and up.
> 
> The issue is I have some 4140 round bar about 14" long to make the baffles out of.  Baffles will be 60* cones to fit inside a 1.5"ID tube.  The best, as I understand it, way to make them is chuck the bar up, and use a steady rest to support it while I work a baffle at a time on the far end.  So that means I need a steady which didn't come with the lathe.
> 
> Necessity is  a mother, so I make a steady.........The first version was a hexagon shape about 10" diameter.  I'm sure you can already see the problem.  I made it from .5x.750" bar stock, welded, threaded 120* apart.  It looked good, but when I put it on and turned the machine by hand, there was so much flex in the fingers I was afraid to even turn the machine on.  So back to the drawing board.
> 
> The second steady was made from wood.  I used 3 layers of 3/4" birch glued and screwed together.  I had a 4" hole in the center and again fingers at 120* apart.  The fingers were 1/2-13 bolts which I turned and tipped with brass.  Unfortunatly there is too much movement in the wood itself I guess.  As I start to take light cuts on the surface, it works loose and starts flexing. I have been watching Ebay and can't find a Logan Steady rest and dont know if anything else will fit.
> 
> I'm really disappointed in my self and in the project so far.  So much so I had to just leave the shop.  As bad as it sounds I am considering selling the Logan and getting a new import  lathe that comes with a steady and tail stock, which I also don't have and would like to have.  Right now my project is stopped and I can't do anything about it.
> 
> I just wanted to try to share the weight on my shoulders, confession being good for the soul and all, and share my tale of woe.



Hi, from your description (no pic provided) I think your first attempt at building a steady rest was on the right track, you just need to use heavier material to get the rigidity, as far as the frame shape it's not really important. Round or hexagonal are the most common, and either will work well.

With the top part hinging open you have to make sure that it clamps down tight without any movement, also the base needs to be very rigid, and a good fit to the lathe bed, no rocking allowed.. The other area of concern is the adjustable fingers need to be well guided, don't just rely on the threads to give rigidity here but set the fingers into square or round guides. 

The tips of the fingers  are traditionally brass or bronze but there appears to be a newish trend to using small ball races, but they must be of good quality, or they will break down quickly. Some people like them, some don't. Apparantly they can mark soft materials, 

I've only ever used brass or bronze tips, and have never had a problem. I have also heard of hardwood tips being used, I imagine you could also use some of the hard engineering plastics, some of them have very low coeff. of friction,and are quite tough. 

There are anumber of well documented builds on this site, have  a look at them and go for it. BTW I would not be keen to sell the Logan if it's in fair to good condition, any old iron from USA, Australia, UK, Europe, in fair condition is a better machine than most of the asian imports. But they are scarcer than rockinh horse sh*t down here, so I had to go for an import, just had to make sure I got the best I could.

And I will have to make a steady for it, as the one that came with it only takes up to 3.5 inch so I'm going to make one that will take up to 6" which will just clear my cross slide. But that is probably a year away yet, more important things to first.


As for your desire for a tail stock you should be able to use your turret as a tailstock, I've seen that done, you can buy live centres on MT shafts as well as parallel shafts.

Good luck on all fronts.


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## fast freddie

On my 12 inch clausing i bought one for a different lathe off ebay and adapted the mounting to fit and it works good


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## Jimsehr

Investigator said:


> I'm very frustrated, somewhat with my machine but mostly with me.   The short version is I need a steady rest but cant find one.
> 
> My 2537 12" turret lathe has been making chips for a while now.  I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a machinist, but I have been able to make what I have needed so for.  All of my projects have been small.  I've made bushings and and a few odd parts here and there.  This is just me in my shop at home for fun.
> But I have a big project to work on for myself.  I have been planning on making a few suppressors for my rifles.  I've got all the legalities covered and all is on the up and up.
> 
> The issue is I have some 4140 round bar about 14" long to make the baffles out of.  Baffles will be 60* cones to fit inside a 1.5"ID tube.  The best, as I understand it, way to make them is chuck the bar up, and use a steady rest to support it while I work a baffle at a time on the far end.  So that means I need a steady which didn't come with the lathe.
> 
> Necessity is  a mother, so I make a steady.........The first version was a hexagon shape about 10" diameter.  I'm sure you can already see the problem.  I made it from .5x.750" bar stock, welded, threaded 120* apart.  It looked good, but when I put it on and turned the machine by hand, there was so much flex in the fingers I was afraid to even turn the machine on.  So back to the drawing board.
> 
> The second steady was made from wood.  I used 3 layers of 3/4" birch glued and screwed together.  I had a 4" hole in the center and again fingers at 120* apart.  The fingers were 1/2-13 bolts which I turned and tipped with brass.  Unfortunatly there is too much movement in the wood itself I guess.  As I start to take light cuts on the surface, it works loose and starts flexing. I have been watching Ebay and can't find a Logan Steady rest and dont know if anything else will fit.
> 
> I'm really disappointed in my self and in the project so far.  So much so I had to just leave the shop.  As bad as it sounds I am considering selling the Logan and getting a new import  lathe that comes with a steady and tail stock, which I also don't have and would like to have.  Right now my project is stopped and I can't do anything about it.
> 
> I just wanted to try to share the weight on my shoulders, confession being good for the soul and all, and share my tale of woe.




I think you just want to make parts and you can make them without a steady. One way would be to saw your stock to SHORT pieces and machine them in a collet or a chuck. All you are doing with a steady is supporting the stock while you are cutting it. If you make the parts using a collet or chuck you don’t need a steady. One way is to cut the stocks little longer then needed and hold on excess length to machine it. Another way is to saw stock a little longer than two parts and hold on one part while you machine the other then saw or cut off when finished. It all comes down to the shape of the part. If you post a pic of part you are trying to make I am sure one of us old guys can tell you how to do it without a steady. And if you post a pic of the steady you made I think one of us can tell you how to beef it up so you can use it. Half inch plate should be big enough for a steady as long as the base is thicker.


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## benmychree

I have made two steady rests, one for a 24" Nebel lathe for large diameter workpieces, I had it machine burnt from heavy steel plate, milled slots in it for the jaws, which had rollers, I made it hinged just like the factory made ones; the base was welded on to make it a longer fir on the bed.  The other one was for a 10" Monarch lathe, made it just like the original, made a wood pattern, had it cast in iron and machined it; the jaws were made of cast iron, which was the practice with most lathes back in the day.  This one was not hinged. but is "C" shaped with the front open for removal of the work.


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## eeler1

Can you make a suppressor with a 1 3/8” OD?  Fit it thru the headstock?


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## Investigator

eeler1 said:


> Can you make a suppressor with a 1 3/8” OD?  Fit it thru the headstock?



You can, yes. but it wonk be as effective.


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## vocatexas

You might take a look at this video and see if it provides any inspiration.


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## ddickey

http://www.interplantsales.com/images/120/Steady Rests.jpg


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## Uncle Buck

Investigator said:


> I'm wondering.....rather than ebay, I found that grizzly sells the entire steady rest  assembly for their 8, 9, 10 and 11 inch lathes for around 100 bucks.  Just wondering if buying one and using an adapter plate on bottom would be a lower cost, but workable option.




Yes it would be a great option. My steady already had a riser sitting under it when I bought my lathe and it has never taken anything away from the machine, or its abilities in use. Go on do it, once done it will be no big deal as you reflect on the issue.


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## bweingartner

I realize this is an old thread at this point, but I think it's still interesting and I'd like to hear the update! One thing I've found and rather enjoy about the machine shop is the satisfaction of learning how to work within the constraints of the machine. One thing I can related to in regards to the Logan lathe is that the parts availability is not as great! If you think there is a tax on 12" lathe parts, try 14"!

My thoughts on the steady is that adapting an existing steady will be a lot easier than building from scratch. I almost took this on for the tailstock as well, buying a SB 14.5 tailstock with the intention of adapting. As luck would have it, a Logan 14" tailstock popped up before that project came to fruition! 

In regards to the specific project you are undertaking, I would second Jimsehr and say you should attempt to make the baffles out of shorter lengths of stock. That's the simple fix. It wasn't clear on whether you were trying to build a one-piece baffle Yes, material cost will be slightly higher, but there is another reason - I'd be concerned about getting a concentric deep bore down the center of a one-piece baffle. The last thing you want is baffle strikes!


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## Investigator

bweingartner said:


> I realize this is an old thread at this point, but I think it's still interesting and I'd like to hear the update! One thing I've found and rather enjoy about the machine shop is the satisfaction of learning how to work within the constraints of the machine. One thing I can related to in regards to the Logan lathe is that the parts availability is not as great! If you think there is a tax on 12" lathe parts, try 14"!
> 
> My thoughts on the steady is that adapting an existing steady will be a lot easier than building from scratch. I almost took this on for the tailstock as well, buying a SB 14.5 tailstock with the intention of adapting. As luck would have it, a Logan 14" tailstock popped up before that project came to fruition!
> 
> In regards to the specific project you are undertaking, I would second Jimsehr and say you should attempt to make the baffles out of shorter lengths of stock. That's the simple fix. It wasn't clear on whether you were trying to build a one-piece baffle Yes, material cost will be slightly higher, but there is another reason - I'd be concerned about getting a concentric deep bore down the center of a one-piece baffle. The last thing you want is baffle strikes!



Actually, I made a steady rest.  I need to do a build thread in case anyone else wants to do it.


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## Richard White (richardsrelics)

You would spend less on the proper steady rest than on a whole new lathe, that in my humble opinion would not be nearly as good as what you have.


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## ezduzit

ff--I did the same. Found a most excellent set of steady and follower rests, on eBay, for a 13" import; paid ~ $150 IIRC. Had to machine the V-notch of the steady a little to make it center precisely on my 12" Logan 2557.


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## joe from N.Y.

jwmay said:


> http://store.lathe.com/ceandstre.html



Damn. Those steady rests cost more than I paid for my whole model 200, and that came with a steady and a follower.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wa5cab

Joe,

If you paid less than $150 for a complete working 200 with both steady and follower rests, then you either stole it or bought it 40 or 50 years ago.  If the former, I wouldn't be spreading that fact around.


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## joe from N.Y.

wa5cab said:


> Joe,
> 
> If you paid less than $150 for a complete working 200 with both steady and follower rests, then you either stole it or bought it 40 or 50 years ago. If the former, I wouldn't be spreading that fact around.



My point is Before I would pay $500 or $600 something for a steady rest alone, I would spend $600-$700 for an old Logan that came with one. That’s just what I did a few years ago when I bought my 200. I never used the steady rest or the follower in my little basement shop, but it’s there if I need it. 

The prices on that link are ridiculous. I don’t know where you saw $150.







Old iron is cheap in my neck of the woods, often with a bunch of tooling. Machine shops are closing every week in the surrounding area of NYC, due to ridiculous rents and absurd property value spikes. Come here for a month with a container truck, and you could load it up and resell the stuff all across the country where tractors are cheap and plentiful but machine tools are scarce.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mikey

Just be glad you guys aren't trying to tool up a manual Emco lathe. The prices cited above are cheap in comparison.


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## Tim9

10" LOGAN LATHE STEADY REST  | eBay
					

Used 10" Logan lathe steady rest.  One obvious brass brazed repair, but otherwise in good shape.



					rover.ebay.com
				



140.00


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## T Bredehoft

Did I read that he's using a turret lathe? What tailstock? What Steady Rest?  The bearing mounted spider is the only way to go.


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## Investigator

Tim9 said:


> 10" LOGAN LATHE STEADY REST  | eBay
> 
> 
> Used 10" Logan lathe steady rest.  One obvious brass brazed repair, but otherwise in good shape.
> 
> 
> 
> rover.ebay.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 140.00





T Bredehoft said:


> Did I read that he's using a turret lathe? What tailstock? What Steady Rest?  The bearing mounted spider is the only way to go.



I made a steady rest from a piece of 1.5" thick aluminum plate.  Cut a 3" through hole with a hole saw, and used my mill to make slots 120* apart for brass fingers.  It's not the prettiest thing, but it works.


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## Tim9

I’m glad you have something that’s working. Good steady rests don’t come cheap, and that’s when you can find one. I run into the same problems with my Clausing lathe. Rests go for a fortune. Anyway, I posted the link because I was looked for a rest for my lathe. I just happened to see a Logan rest.


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## Investigator

Here is a pic while it was in process:


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## Investigator

another better pic:


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## bweingartner

Very nice work! Doesn't have to pretty, that's for sure. I almost did the exact thing for my 7500 14" Logan chucker. With time and patience, I did ultimately luck out and find a steady rest AND follow rest AND tail stock AND a 65xx saddle. At the end of the day I paid more for those parts than I did for the lathe itself.

Thankfully, I think I did okay on the lathe itself so I'm not too sore about it. Around here, these sorts of machines are not a dime a dozen like they are in some parts of the country. So sometimes buying whatever you can and being patient to buy the missing parts OR making the parts yourself I think makes sense.


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## Investigator

Speaking of making it work,  my next major project on the lathe itself is to adapt/modify the turret to work as a tail stock, based on an example sent to me by one of the members here.  That will be a post in itself.


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