# My van norman 12



## cayusedriver (Sep 29, 2011)

View attachment 1157

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To those interested:

Here are some pictures of my VN 12 as I received it.

Cayuse


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## HMF (Sep 29, 2011)

Ed,

a Van Norman #12 is 1800 pounds.
It can be broken up into assemblies. The lightest assembly is the base/column, which is around 800 pounds. The base separates from the column, with difficulty. There are about 6 screws that go from the roof of the base/coolant area up into the column, and two indexing pins. If you want to know how to separate, I can advise further. You need special sockets and a breaker bar to do it. Don't do what I did and rock the assembly, or you will break off one of the index pins like I did. The base is about 450 pounds, and the column about 350 pounds. The ram is about 200 pounds. The knee is around 150 pounds, and the table is around 100-150 pounds. 

Nelson


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## HMF (Sep 29, 2011)

Cayuse,

You need an overarm support casting. Nearly impossible to find on Ebay- they go for outrageous prices $300 or so.

Almost impossible to get an unbroken right handwheel support casting. We may make some based on the #16 casting which is sturdier at some point.

Nelson


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## HMF (Sep 29, 2011)

I was albeit to move the VN myself with and engine crane.

There are two K&T mills on Craig's list in Va for $500.00, but I don't know what they weigh.

Nelson


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## cayusedriver (Sep 29, 2011)

Fred:

http://jmkasunich.com/vannorman/VN_Serial.htm should get you to the page to reference the serial number of a machine and determine the year of production.

Cayuse


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## HMF (Sep 30, 2011)

Jim's site is excellent for information on the history and serial number of the VN #12.

Other good links on Van Norman Mills:

http://home.earthlink.net/~rchaskell/metalworking/VanNorman/index.html

http://home.comcast.net/~jegreenblatt/VanNorman.html

and a video:

[video=youtube;KZqO4SA_Oo0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZqO4SA_Oo0[/video] 


Nelson


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## cayusedriver (Sep 30, 2011)

Nelson:

Thanks for ALL the information you provided. Those were some of the questions I PM'd you about the other day when I ask to pick your brain. Unbelievably helpful!! 

I guess I need to ask how to disassemble and remove the RAM assembly and the table from the machine for painting. 

I purchased some POR 15 paint, just the sampler kit (color gray) a few weeks ago was going to try it on some of the smaller parts to see how it goes. I was told the SILVER POR 15 is thicker and has better filling capability, maybe better for the rougher areas. Would love to hear from any experienced POR 15 users: do's and don'ts, the good, bad and ugly, and anything else. I want it to look nice; but, I will be using it like you not sending it to the Smithsonian, and I'm on a tight budget (aren't we all). 

The old motor that's in the photos is Kaput so I intend to replace it with a 2 HP craftsman motor model # 113.12025, unless someone would recommend otherwise. I need to figure the sheave diameter to reduce the motor rpm to the factory recommended rpm spec of 1140 rpm at the gearbox drive shaft. I am fabricating a new motor base mounting plate that will bring the center of the new motor drive shaft up to the same height when mounted on the machine as was the old one. If you foresee any problems with what I've outlined above, please advise me.

I will post later about the overarm casting and some other stuff I have questions about, need to take some photos so you know what I'm talking about.

Again, thanks much,

Cayuse


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## HMF (Sep 30, 2011)

Cayuse,


I didn't answer in PM because I want the answers on the forum so we can provide the information to others, instead of just keeping it to ourselves.

PLEASE post your progress on here so all can see it!

Thanks!


Nelson


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## cayusedriver (Sep 30, 2011)

Nelson:

I just didn't want to take up space and people's time unnecessarily. I WILL be happy to post my progress, just let me know if I get to be taking too much space and time.

Cayuse


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## HMF (Sep 30, 2011)

cayusedriver link=topic=3759.msg27692#msg27692 date=1317388271 said:
			
		

> Nelson:
> 
> I guess I need to ask how to disassemble and remove the RAM assembly and the table from the machine for painting.
> I




I don't know what POR paint is. I use either Rustoleum or Benjamin Moore Alkyd M-22 I think it is.

Remove the table first. I think just removed the handwheels, brackets, stop mechanism, and the gib under the table between the feed mechanism and the table. There are some hard to see setscrews as I recall. If you need a parts diagram, I will download it here from the downloads directory we have. I removed the connection to the feed mechanism and slid it out. I am working from memory, so I am fuzzy on specifics. I couldn't hold it, so I put the sling around the middle and used the engine crane to move it and set it down on some wood. It weighs over 100 pounds. I am 53, not as powerful as I used to be.

Ram casting. OK. This is from memory, so I will probably leave something out. Remove overarm and support. You will need to put your sling through the casting where the overarm was on your engine crane. The ram is very heavy, and you need the lift. Remove all jib screws and binders, and set them aside in a cup where you can find them. Using the removable crank, crank the ram as far as it will go on the ram lead screw. Then crank the sling tight so the engine crane will hold the ram. Then I pushed the ram off the dovetails- it might stick a bit. Make sure all gibs and binders are off. It will swing off if everything holding it is removed. Guide it carefully so it doesn't hit anything. Once off, move it onto some wood 4x4s.

The knee is the same idea. The one thing I recall is the gib screws are a witch. Do not tighten them or you will crack the gib. Work slowly and carefully until the lead screw for the Z movement that goes through the base casting is all holding it, then lift it off with the engine crane. It is heavy, but not as heavy as the ram or table.

Work slowly and OBSERVE what is holding things up BEFORE you move things. Make sure everything is held back by your crane. Don't force anything for gosh sake, you will break something. If things stick, then use penetrating oil (Kroil is BEST) on them and let them soak for a day.

Reference the photos of my disqassembly on here. And then check out Weeble's photos on here also of his restoration. Good stuff. Also, do a search of the VN Yahoo group on VN disassembly. Someone outlined the steps quickly AND a guy on there named Franklyn has an album showing SOME of the steps he used to disassemble his #12, and he is a good guy who can help you also. Man, I read EVERYTHING before I touched mine, and it went well. I have done two of them now, so I have a handle on how to disassemble it in a few hours.

Nelson


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## cayusedriver (Sep 30, 2011)

Nelson:

Thanks, parts diagram I have. I will search the VN sites you suggested and attempt to locate the information you mentioned. Undoubtedly I will still have some questions to run by you. I considered not removing the separate attachments and just taping off and painting around. I think that removal if I can accomplish it is probably the best.

POR is sold out of Morristown NJ, it's a rust preventative paint. A lot of automobile restorer use it especially for undercarriages and chassis. It's expensive but tough will take hammer strikes without cracking or chipping. FYI: www.por15.com. 

Thanks again,

Cayuse


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## HMF (Sep 30, 2011)

cayusedriver link=topic=3759.msg27720#msg27720 date=1317408298 said:
			
		

> Nelson:
> 
> Thanks, parts diagram I have. I will search the VN sites you suggested and attempt to locate the information you mentioned. Undoubtedly I will still have some questions to run by you. I considered not removing the separate attachments and just taping off and painting around. I think that removal if I can accomplish it is probably the best.
> 
> ...




Remove everything down to the base and column as in my photos- it is SOOOO much easier to paint that way. I use a brush, and the Rustoleum works nicely, leaves no brush marks.

Ask me anything you want about disassembly- been there, done that x2.

Nelson


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## Cal Haines (Sep 30, 2011)

cayusedriver link=topic=3759.msg27692#msg27692 date=1317388271 said:
			
		

> ... I guess I need to ask how to disassemble and remove the RAM assembly and the table from the machine for painting.
> ...



Personally, I wouldn't try to remove either the ram or the table without something like an engine hoist or gantry crane to handle them. What do you have available? Do you have any height restrictions in your work area?



			
				cayusedriver link=topic=3759.msg27692#msg27692 date=1317388271 said:
			
		

> ... The old motor that's in the photos is Kaput so I intend to replace it with a 2 HP craftsman motor model # 113.12025, unless someone would recommend otherwise. ...



I couldn't find any information on the Craftsman motor. Is it reversible? What voltage?

I think you would be much happier with a 3-phase motor and a VFD. What's wrong with the old motor?

_[size=18pt]Cal[/size]_


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## cayusedriver (Sep 30, 2011)

Cal:

Craftsman motor is a 2 HP, 120/240 volt, 24/12 amp, 1725 rpm, reversable motor. 

The old motor that's visible in the photographs was not the original motor. I took it to an electric motor repair/ rebuild shop, the mechanic there said it was a Old OLD HVAC motor and it was about a 1750 rpm 220 volt 1.5 HP motor that would cost 4-5 hundred to repair and still wouldn't be as efficient as a more recently produced motor. I had bought this craftsman a couple years ago off CL for an extremely cheap price. It appeared new and ran in 120 v mode very nicely. I got some 1", 3/4", and 1/2" steel plate to fabricate a motor mount base plate and bring the center of the new motor shaft to the same height above the ram motor mount plate when mounted as was the old motor shaft. I'll need to figure what diameter pulleys to apply to the motor shaft to provide the correct rpm on the pulleys at the gearbox input shaft. Also, I don't have 3 phase input here.

Thanks,

Cayuse


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## Cal Haines (Sep 30, 2011)

cayusedriver link=topic=3759.msg27792#msg27792 date=1317434728 said:
			
		

> ... Craftsman motor is a 2 HP, 120/240 volt, 24/12 amp, 1725 rpm, reversable motor.
> ...
> I'll need to figure what diameter pulleys to apply to the motor shaft to provide the correct rpm on the pulleys at the gearbox input shaft. Also, I don't have 3 phase input here.
> ...


24A is too much for a 120VAC plug. Unless you want to direct wire it to a dedicated 30 amp circuit, you should go with 240 VAC (which is a better choice anyway).

I wouldn't assume that the guy that put the existing motor on bothered to change the pulleys; you may be fine with what you have. What are the diameters of your current pulleys? We also need to know the reduction for the gearbox. Put your gearbox in the lowest setting and have an assistant turn the turn the input shaft while you count the revolutions of the spindle; how many revs of the spindle do you get for 10 revs of the input shaft (1 rev isn't enough)?

You don't need 3-phase input for a VFD. There are VFDs that take 240 single phase and produce 3-phase out.

_[size=18pt]Cal[/size]_


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## miguel aprendiz (Oct 1, 2011)

que maravilla de maquina , la verdad muy practica , que precio tiene? solo por curiosidad gracias


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## cayusedriver (Oct 2, 2011)

Miguel:

pague 350. USD. La compre en una subasta, hace 10 anos atras. Hasta ahora tengo el tiempo de arreglarla. Hablo muy poco espanol mi nuera me esta ayudando a mandarte este email. 

Muchas gracias por preguntar, Cayuse.


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## cayusedriver (Oct 4, 2011)

Cal Haines link=topic=3759.msg27809#msg27809 date=1317440658 said:
			
		

> cayusedriver link=topic=3759.msg27792#msg27792 date=1317434728 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Fishchips (Oct 5, 2011)

It's raining out, What a great time to view HM rebuilds.


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## ScubaSteve (Dec 2, 2011)

Allthumbz said:


> I was albeit to move the VN myself with and engine crane.
> 
> There are two K&T mills on Craig's list in Va for $500.00, but I don't know what they weigh.
> 
> Nelson



K&T's are nice buy waaaaay heavier. The smallest are around 4000 lbs...


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## ScubaSteve (Dec 2, 2011)

This is a good thread...thanks for the pics! I see an awful lot of VN12's around, at least on the more popular metalworking forums. Can anyone comment on why they are so popular? Is it the (relatively) smaller size?


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## atfab (Dec 10, 2011)

try automationdirect.com for a VFD
they also offer 120v input 240volt 3phase output for 1/2 hp and smaller 
the VFD lets you change the speed and direction also.
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...-Hz_Control)/GS1_Drive_Units_(120_-z-_230_VAC)


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## ScubaSteve (Dec 18, 2011)

Rusty said:


> It's not that small.
> Shorter in height compared to a Bridgeport type mill,but large enough otherwise.
> I would say the same footprint in shop space as a Bridgeport type.
> I guess they are popular because they are getting cheaper to purchase as they are an older machine,but still are quite usable.
> ...



Thanks for that...you're right...they ARE pretty cool looking


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