# Beware Of Chinese Jacobs



## 24dickinson24

I recently went to a local tooling supplier to buy a Jacobs chuck for a newly acquired Walker-Turner drill press. The box said "Made in China". Almost puked. Strangely the price demanded was as if it were still Made in USA. It would seem if Jacobs now puts their products on par with horrible freight junk the price should reflect this. At any rate I couldn't do it. I ordered a Rohm (made in Germany) instead and contacted Jacobs to congratulate them for turning one of the best products in the industry in to cheap "quality import" junk.


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## burnrider

I bet they still charged the US price


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## jumps4

I bought a 1/2" jacobs chuck at harbour fright but i havent mounted it  hummm
it's probably no better than their chuck.
steve


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## swatson144

Jacobs was bought out and what you saw was the result, the MA. plant and any others in the USA were closed a couple years ago. I still have 4 of the Chinese 14N chucks after selling one (with proper warnings) on ebay. I'll be selling the others soon. http://www.ebay.com/itm/261019404678?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1562.l2649 was the auction with pictures.

Steve


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## jgedde

24dickinson24 said:


> At any rate I couldn't do it. I ordered a Rohm (made in Germany) instead and contacted Jacobs to congratulate them for turning one of the best products in the industry in to cheap "quality import" junk.



I'm glad you wrote that letter.  Nonetheless I'm sure they don't give a &*@!.  If you do hear back, please follow up and let us know what they have to say.  "Our quality hasn't suffered" "Thanks for your interest" and the like I'll guess.

So even the high end Jacobs ball bearing chucks are Chinese?  If so, then I'll wager they will stop being able to sell those.  Why?  Because people in the know (HSMs, commercial machinists, etc) will all buy Rohms and Albrechts instead leaving Jacobs with the only thing left: chucks for hand drills.

BTW, I bought keyless chucks from two places:
1)  CDCO: chinese low end and cheap ($35 with arbor): 0.005 TIR (<0.002 is the claimed figure).  No response from them when I emailed them to say I was unhappy with the product not meeting spec.
2)  From the local machine shop supply house (no arbor): made by a company called GS Tooling (for about $120) and it's a dream: 0.0006 TIR and smooth as glass.  Easily as good as the Albrechts.  This chuck impressed even seasoned precision machinsts at work...

John


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## McRuff

Last several chucks that I have bought for me and the several we have bought in the last 8 months at work all still say made in the USA right on the chuck. Not sure about the box though. They are definitely not like the old ones with the laser engraving as compared to the old rolled engraving on them. They have been accurate  but loook different, they also now have serial numbers on them that in years past they did not have.


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## swatson144

The ones I have are etched not rolled no mention of USA but has "Jacobs®", The tips of the jaws do not form a flat when closed but a cone, the etching (poor) on the barrel says "JACOBS     BALL     BEARING     SUPER     CHUCK" Just to tell how much concern went into these things the extra spaces  cause it to have 'CHUCKJACOBS" run together. "SUPER     CHUCKJACOBS     BALL      BEARING" :lmao: as started reading from another spot.:huh:  I have taken one apart and the balls are tiny and held in a plastic ring. When pressing it back together It felt rough and not fully seated exactly like the 4 others feel) a a little more pressing in hopes it would smooth out broke the plastic carrier and dropped the balls. Interesting thing is is that there seems to be no difference in the function compared to the others but I use it as a paper weight anyhow.


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## flutedchamber

I bought a 1/2 inch Jacobs Super chuck from Enco last year.  Figured I'd bite the bullet and buy a new unit that would last me the rest of my life.  

When I opened the box and tried the chuck it felt rough.  All the differences previously mentioned were present.  I called Jacobs thinking that I was sold a knock off copy.

The guy said that the chuck was authentic, and made in China.  I sent the chuck back to Enco for a refund and bought a used older Jacobs off of Ebay. Took it apart, cleaned and greased it, and it works like a charm and is as accurate as a new unit, for a lot less money.

More Chinese lack of quality.


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## EmilioG

The last time I contacted Apex Tools (Jacobs chucks), they wrote that the new Super Chucks are made in Taiwan and not China.
Very strange change of information. Maybe other Chucks are made in China? Not sure anymore, but I bought a nice USA made older
16n super chuck from Ebay for $35.00. Very nice. I guess any new chucks will be Rohm and Albrecht from now on.


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## Billh50

I have 3 Albrechts that I have had for years.....great chucks.


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## Mark_f

I'm glad this thread was started as I was thinking of buying a new Jacob's super ball bearing chuck, but not now. I always liked a chuck with a key, but Now I am considering trying a keyless chuck.


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## Sandia

I purchased a new 5/8" Jacobs ball bearing Super Chuck last year. Same thing, it was rough and run out was way out there. Finally got disgusted with it and bought a new Rohm chuck. It is a nice chuck.

Too bad, just another chapter and verse. I have 3 older Jacobs and all are very good chucks.

Sandia


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## The Liberal Arts Garage

Wierd ....along with my early forties AA 109 I got a3/8" Super chuck.  0 taper..Perfectly smoot and tight ,  $ 143 inVictor Catalogue


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## wa5cab

I recommend doing what I've been doing.  Buy relative sleeper Jacobs chucks (meaning final price less than $100 for the largest ones and on down) on eBay and then keep searches running for the vintage NOS repair parts (Sleeves, jaws and nuts).  Then I'm going to machine the necessary arbors and receivers and rebuild all of them.  And then I'll have all the decent chucks I'll ever need.  About the only machine tool related company that I know of that hasn't succumbed to the disease is Timken.  And that's only a matter of time I'm sure.  In a way, I'm glad that I don't have that many years left to worry about it.


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## Doubleeboy

I got a sick feeling, I just bought a expensive jacobs chuck for my new lathe when Zoro had their sale a couple days ago.  The chuck will get here tomorrow, the lathe in a couple weeks.  If it says made in "China I guess I will find out on my first Zoro purchase how their return policy goes.

michael


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## Andre

Have a single 3/8" Jacobs chuck, made in China, it's the worst chuck I've ever seen, I think I could build a better one myself! I still plan to use it though


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## wa5cab

I'll mention that as Jacob's change happened fairly recently (I bought a new small chuck from Wholesale Tool shortly before they closed their Houston store and it is US made), it would be worthwhile writing any eBay seller whose ad doesn't say and asking whether the one that they are selling is US or Chinese.


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## gi_984

Went thru this myself last year.  Bought a replacement Jacobs drill chuck for a Clausing drill press.  Came from Enco.  Looked nice but wouldn't hold a twist drill worth a damn and the runout  was atrocious when checked with a precision gauge pin and indicator.  Returned to Enco for refund.  I've since bought a couple of gently used super chucks off craigslist.  Excellent chucks.


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## Doubleeboy

My Jacobs chuck JK 160-MT4 arrived from Zoro today.  Actually it was supposed to be here last week, but all they shipped was an empty box.  Luckily that was taken care of with no drama.  My fears were confirmed, although the chuck , box and literature say nothing of country of origin, the certificate of inspection states .0016" runout and stamped with a Chinese looking stamp for the inspector.   Chuck seems okay, but lathe is not here yet and wont be for a week and I have nothing to hold a MT4 arbor with to test it.   Sure would be nice if suppliers would let you know the country of origin of their merchandise, and sneaky of Jacobs to make no mention of country or origin either.    I let my guard down and got what I deserved.

michael


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## 18w

Doubleeboy said:


> My Jacobs chuck JK 160-MT4 arrived from Zoro today.  Actually it was supposed to be here last week, but all they shipped was an empty box.  Luckily that was taken care of with no drama.  My fears were confirmed, although the chuck , box and literature say nothing of country of origin, the certificate of inspection states .0016" runout and stamped with a Chinese looking stamp for the inspector.   Chuck seems okay, but lathe is not here yet and wont be for a week and I have nothing to hold a MT4 arbor with to test it.   Sure would be nice if suppliers would let you know the country of origin of their merchandise, and sneaky of Jacobs to make no mention of country or origin either.    I let my guard down and got what I deserved.
> 
> michael



Sadly Michael this is the state of the industry these days. Starrett, Jacobs, Nicholson files, Triumph Drill, along with numerous others are as big of crap shoot as any other lesser company these days. Check out my recent experience here. http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/my-recent-buying-experiences.33461/ I now do more diligent research and have resolved my self to spend the higher amount for known quality products no matter where the country of origin is. The worst thing is name and price are no longer a assurance of quality. Hopefully your chuck is within spec and that it serves you well.

Darrell


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## Swerdk

I just caught this thread I am in the process of purchasing a 16n Jacob super drill chuck.  I have a MT3 tailstock Percision Matthews 1236 and I was wondering can I put the 18n Jacob's super drill chuck on there?  By putting an adapter on the tales stock -will that compromise the rigidity and the maximum strength that the tailstock was meant to hold?

 Second question whether I end up getting the 16n or the 18n --guys where should I get it from I don't want a Chinese rip off .  Who has had a good experience and where I will check out those websites


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## wa5cab

Swerdk,

I know nothing about any of the PM machines but assume that you mean that yours has a 3MT socket in the tailstock ram.  If that's correct then you just need an arbor that is 3JT to 3MT for the 16N or 4JT to 3MT for the 18N.  No adapter needed.

As far as where to buy either one, I never cared for the Super Chucks so don't have any recommendations.  But if you find one advertised as NOS (New Old Stock) or NOSB (New Old Stock in the original Box), you should be relatively safe as there probably hasn't been enough time elapsed since Jacobs shut down its US plant for wholesalers or retailers to have gone out of business and their stock to appear on eBay.  Otherwise you should buy a used one.

What I did was to buy several different sizes of older Jacobs chucks and to buy up enough NOSB sleeves, nuts and jaws in the old green boxes to rebuild most or all of them.


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## 65BAJA

I just received an 18N today. I wish I had found this thread first. Sure enough, the top of the box says made in China.  Mill will be here next week. We will see if it's runout is bad or not.


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## wa5cab

Well, who knows.  Check the spindle or quill runout first.  If it is OK, then check the chuck.  The Chinese can make pretty decent equipment.  They just won't do it unless someone holds their feet to the fire.  No pride of workmanship.  I happen to have direct experience with this in small electro-mechanical parts.  But I probably wouldn't, either, if I were being paid what they are.


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## Swerdk

wa5cab said:


> Swerdk,
> 
> I know nothing about any of the PM machines but assume that you mean that yours has a 3MT socket in the tailstock ram.  If that's correct then you just need an arbor that is 3JT to 3MT for the 16N or 4JT to 3MT for the 18N.  No adapter needed.
> 
> As far as where to buy either one, I never cared for the Super Chucks so don't have any recommendations.  But if you find one advertised as NOS (New Old Stock) or NOSB (New Old Stock in the original Box), you should be relatively safe as there probably hasn't been enough time elapsed since Jacobs shut down its US plant for wholesalers or retailers to have gone out of business and their stock to appear on eBay.  Otherwise you should buy a used one.
> 
> What I did was to buy several different sizes of older Jacobs chucks and to buy up enough NOSB sleeves, nuts and jaws in the old green boxes to rebuild most or all of them.


Thank you for clarifying.  I need 4JT to 3MT arbor.  I would perfer 18n.  I will comb ebay.


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## gi_984

Swerdk,  my one and only Chinese Jacobs chuck had a lot of run out AND wouldn't grip a twist drill brand new out of the box.  It was promptly returned to Enco for a refund.  You might get lucky and get a Chinese made Jacobs chuck with acceptable run out.  BUT make sure it also holds the drill.  I suspect even if it does initially it might not do as well after it is a little "seasoned".  I've never had a holding issue with any of my US made Jacobs or Albrecht drill chucks. If you find a likely prospect on e-bay make sure the seller accepts returns if it doesn't meet your needs.


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## Doubleeboy

Earlier in this thread I mentioned my new Jacobs chuck.  It has not seen a lot of use yet, I don't drill alot on lathe, but the drill chuck has proved flawless.  I actually prefer it to my well worn Albrecht, but as I said it does not have much use yet.  It and its packaging had no marking as to where it was made. I suspect it will serve me fine.  But if I had known it was not US made I would have ponied up the extra $100 or so an bought an Albrecht.   

michael


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## mksj

wa5cab said:


> Well, who knows. Check the spindle or quill runout first. If it is OK, then check the chuck. The Chinese can make pretty decent equipment.



You may also consider chucks with integral shanks, I use one with an R8 integral shank (Glacern R8-DC500) on the mill and a 3MT (Z live CNC precision 1-16mm) on the lathe. As best as I can tell the TIR is better than 0.002" and they work well. I believe both are of Chinese manufacturer, but may be built to higher QC standards. At this point I prefer the Z-live, and it is about 1/2 the price of the Glacern which has doubled in price since I bought it.


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## 65BAJA

I was just able to check my 18N in the mill. It's mounted on a Jacobs R8 arbor. I checked it with a Best Test .0005" indicator mounted in a Noga holder. I measured a TIR of .0025" as best I could tell. This was measured on a 3/8" solid carbide endmill. So I guess It meets or exceeds the .003" TIR they advertise. I can live with that. I still wish it had been American made though.


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## MrFixIt

Doubleeboy said:


> My Jacobs chuck JK 160-MT4 arrived from Zoro today.  Actually it was supposed to be here last week, but all they shipped was an empty box.  Luckily that was taken care of with no drama.  My fears were confirmed, although the chuck , box and literature say nothing of country of origin, the certificate of inspection states .0016" runout and stamped with a Chinese looking stamp for the inspector.   Chuck seems okay, but lathe is not here yet and wont be for a week and I have nothing to hold a MT4 arbor with to test it.   Sure would be nice if suppliers would let you know the country of origin of their merchandise, and sneaky of Jacobs to make no mention of country or origin either.    I let my guard down and got what I deserved.
> 
> michael



That's odd, I thought by law they had to have the country of origin identified.


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## Theo Timber

Good day gents. I am new here. I disassembled a 1/2 inch Jacobs today, cleaned it thoroughly and then re-assembled it. It is still rough. I have been checking the forum regularly and decided to join today to get some help. I really did a thorough job, wire brushing every part of it. Perhaps I should buy the jaw bits and screw ring and just replace the old ones even though they still looks good? 
I noticed that the one bit goes in with some difficulty. Think that perhaps it may be slightly bent. Anybody that can give some advice, I will be very greatfull.


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## mmcmdl

A Chinies Jacobs ?  Ok I can't spell Chineis  . I know , late to the game , but , what next , who next ?


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## gi_984

I've disassembled and cleaned up a half dozen Jacobs chucks.  A good cleaning followed by careful deburring with good quality stones and a small set of jeweler files improved most of them significantly.  Only had two that had jaws too worn to save.  I had to disassemble them several times and debur a little each time to get them to where they felt smooth.  Better to go slow than get over zealous on the polishing.


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