# Soon to be a PM-935T-S owner



## TimMTP

Well, after much consternation wondering which mill to buy, I just let Matt con me into his last PM-935T-S. Actually, he didn't have to try too hard, I knew what I needed, I just hated doubling my budget. But, I know I'll be much happier in the long run with this than the PM-932M I was about to buy.

Now if I just knew how to run a milling machine....anic:


Oh well, a few months ago I didn't know how to build a 1911 either. Ain't knowledge great?   :jester:


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## itsme_Bernie

Good for you Tim!  Pics when it shows up!

People rarely complain about having "more machine" once you actually get it home..   Good luck!


Bernie


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## Ray C

It's not as much about what you know, as it is how well/efficiently/consistently you figure things out. 


Oh man, SWEET mill.. Congrats and I'm thinking you just might kinda suck... (need that green envy icon).


In my ideal world (given the kind of stuff I personally do) I would want that mill and the CNC version of the PM45. That would cover it for me completely.

Good luck and show us pics.


Ray


EDIT: BTW, the "you suck" thing is totally in jest and good humor..




TimMTP said:


> Well, after much consternation wondering which mill to buy, I just let Matt con me into his last PM-935T-S. Actually, he didn't have to try too hard, I knew what I needed, I just hated doubling my budget. But, I know I'll be much happier in the long run with this than the PM-932M I was about to buy.
> 
> Now if I just knew how to run a milling machine....anic:
> 
> 
> Oh well, a few months ago I didn't know how to build a 1911 either. Ain't knowledge great? :jester:


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## GaryK

TimMTP said:


> Well, after much consternation wondering which mill to buy, I just let Matt con me into his last PM-935T-S. Actually, he didn't have to try too hard, I knew what I needed, I just hated doubling my budget. But, I know I'll be much happier in the long run with this than the PM-932M I was about to buy.
> 
> Now if I just knew how to run a milling machine....anic:
> 
> 
> Oh well, a few months ago I didn't know how to build a 1911 either. Ain't knowledge great?   :jester:




What's the T-S designation?


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## Rbeckett

I'm green with envy too.  I would love to have the money to get a new mill from Matt.  I had to scrimp and save to get a used Lathe, fortunately there are good souls in this world and I got a very nice used 9X from one of the members of this group.  Couldn't have done it without a little help from an outstanding fellow.  Don't forget the pics of uncrating it and initial assembly.  The machines Matt has have been showing up in excellent condition and well assembled from the factory.  I still recommend doing a tear down and clean to remove all of the shipping grease they apply in China.  It will also help to familiarize you with your new machine on a much more intimate level.  I think when folks do this they avoid any of the possible shortcomings that are usually discovered with these machines later on.  Matt is a stand up guy and will be glad to help if you do encounter any issues, but I think he personally inspects each machine before shipping, so there is less to worry about when you get one from him.  Good luck and congrats on the new machine.  Now you all just need to donate to my charity so I can get a new mill too!!!!!  Hah hah just kidding.

Bob


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## Ray C

This one.  It's what some call a 2/3 BP-style mill.  http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-935HighPrecisionMills.html   The "V" version is variable speed.  Nice power full motors on these, 2HP if I recall.

Ray





GaryK said:


> What's the T-S designation?


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## Shopsweeper

Congratulations, those look like sweet little machines.

If I were to ever buy new, I would look hard at those.


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## TimMTP

Thanks guys. 

I really should get ready to take pictures. Part of the reason I was looking at this mill and the 932 is due to the fact that I need it to fit through a regular 36" door. That operation is bound to produce tons of fun moments.

Oh, and Ray C, I totally understand the jest. I'm sure I'll be so excited when it shows up that I'll think I suck too.  :LOL:


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## MikeWi

Oh trust me, you so totally suxorz dude! 

I'm pretty good at the whipper snapper lingo eh?


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## qualitymachinetools

Yes Tim you will love this machine, they are so nice. No cleaning or anything required on this one. Get it through the door, hook it up, and you are ready to go. These mills are the quality of a Sharp LMV. Just a little smaller, and lot less money. Our larger mills come from this factory too, they do an excellent job.

 The only reason we even go over these machines before shipping, is that they are just so nice to look at!

 And don't worry, I've fit a larger mill through a 36" Door, so you will have no problem at all. Just a little bit of an angle and some table moving, you will be good to go.


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## qualitymachinetools

And yes the T-S is Taiwan, Step Pulley. No that larger mills are not from Taiwan, but with these, a lot of people compare to the Jet 836 mill. This mill is WAAAAYYYY Better. 

 Jet is China, this one is Taiwan. Jet costs more. No spindle down feed on the Jet, the PM has a full featured mill head, with spindle feed, just like a Bridgeport. 

 The PM Head tilts left to right, AND front to back. The Jet does not. 

 The Jet has an "Industry Leading" 2 year warranty. The PM Taiwan machines now have a 5 year warranty. 

 Jet has a better web site, I will give them that.

 The PM is cheaper. (Unfortunately have to go up a bit soon here the factory raised the price, but still a good bit less than the Jet)

 There is nothing even close to this PM-935TS/V Mill out there that I know of, in the USA.


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## TimMTP

Well, I caved. I thought long enough that I figured this would be a once in a lifetime purchase. So, I gave Matt a shout and moved my deposit over to a variable version of this machine. So, I get to wait another month or two but I get a variable machine plus it will run off of single phase. Hopefully my patience will prove to be a good decision.    :whistle:


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## Ray C

Variable speed..... You will not regret it.  Trust me on that...


Ray




TimMTP said:


> Well, I caved. I thought long enough that I figured this would be a once in a lifetime purchase. So, I gave Matt a shout and moved my deposit over to a variable version of this machine. So, I get to wait another month or two but I get a variable machine plus it will run off of single phase. Hopefully my patience will prove to be a good decision. :whistle:


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## Rbeckett

Oh yeah, Variable speed will be a much nicer option to have from the outset.  Most folks wait till the OE motors die then replace with variable speed, but why not do it in the beginning and save the headache later.  Plus the difference in price is less than doing it later.  With as long a warranty as they have you will probably be an old hand with it by the time it needs any TLC.  So far I have never heard of a PM showing any sign of premature wear or any dissatisfaction by any one.  So they are good solid machine from the git go and appear to hold up extremely well for the forseeable future.  I'm sure you will not regret making the change to Variable and I'm sure Matt is giving you the best deal he possibly can too.  So don't forget the pics of it arriving and getting uncrated.  That will give all of us jealous folks something else to drool over when it gets there.  Good luck and spend your waiting time wisely by having a look at the MIT and Glacern videos on you tube.  You might also start shopping around for tooling and accessories that you will eventually wish to add, such as a rotary table or power drawbar.  Once you get into the addiction it only gets better.... Trust me, you are in for a ton of fun with your new machine.

Bob


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## Ray C

Hi Bob / All,


FWIW, out of thousands of PM mills out there, Matt gets maybe 1 defective motor every couple years.  If you're waiting for the OE moter to burn out, you got a long wait on your hands...

Ray





Rbeckett said:


> Oh yeah, Variable speed will be a much nicer option to have from the outset.  Most folks wait till the OE motors die then replace with variable speed, but why not do it in the beginning and save the headache later.  Plus the difference in price is less than doing it later.  With as long a warranty as they have you will probably be an old hand with it by the time it needs any TLC.  So far I have never heard of a PM showing any sign of premature wear or any dissatisfaction by any one.  So they are good solid machine from the git go and appear to hold up extremely well for the forseeable future.  I'm sure you will not regret making the change to Variable and I'm sure Matt is giving you the best deal he possibly can too.  So don't forget the pics of it arriving and getting uncrated.  That will give all of us jealous folks something else to drool over when it gets there.  Good luck and spend your waiting time wisely by having a look at the MIT and Glacern videos on you tube.  You might also start shopping around for tooling and accessories that you will eventually wish to add, such as a rotary table or power drawbar.  Once you get into the addiction it only gets better.... Trust me, you are in for a ton of fun with your new machine.
> 
> Bob


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## Ray C

Matt / All,

Time flies...  I remember you talking about this machine almost 3 years ago.  You were looking for the right set of features and someone who could build it at an affordable cost.  I remember you mentioning two roadblocks; one was finding the perfect motor and the other was the Turcite.  Looks like you over-came the problems...  Here's a stretch goal...  How about CNC on this thing?  I'd probably sell my car to get one.


Ray











qualitymachinetools said:


> And yes the T-S is Taiwan, Step Pulley. No that larger mills are not from Taiwan, but with these, a lot of people compare to the Jet 836 mill. This mill is WAAAAYYYY Better.
> 
> Jet is China, this one is Taiwan. Jet costs more. No spindle down feed on the Jet, the PM has a full featured mill head, with spindle feed, just like a Bridgeport.
> 
> The PM Head tilts left to right, AND front to back. The Jet does not.
> 
> The Jet has an "Industry Leading" 2 year warranty. The PM Taiwan machines now have a 5 year warranty.
> 
> Jet has a better web site, I will give them that.
> 
> The PM is cheaper. (Unfortunately have to go up a bit soon here the factory raised the price, but still a good bit less than the Jet)
> 
> There is nothing even close to this PM-935TS/V Mill out there that I know of, in the USA.


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## lregister

Hello Guys,

Does anyone know the price of the second 935T in the picture with the table feed and DRO?  Just curious, that looks like the one to get if the price is right.

Bye the way, I really appreciate all of the good input from everyone.  I'm new to this group and proud to be a member.  Great bunch of people!!!

Thanks,
Larry


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## Ray C

Hi... there are two basic models.  S-single phase at $4999 and V-variable speed 3 phase at 5999.  Two axis DRO is $599 and three axis runs 2-3 hundred more depending on the DRO head you want.  

These are really sweet machines in that size range.

Ray






lregister said:


> Hello Guys,
> 
> Does anyone know the price of the second 935T in the picture with the table feed and DRO? Just curious, that looks like the one to get if the price is right.
> 
> Bye the way, I really appreciate all of the good input from everyone. I'm new to this group and proud to be a member. Great bunch of people!!!
> 
> Thanks,
> Larry


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## lregister

Hi Ray,
So, does the VS model include the power table feed or is that extra as well?  Also, do they not make a single phase Variable Speed model?
Thanks,
Larry


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## Ray C

They are all AC motors so the single phase cannot be made variable speed.  The VS versions are outfitted with VFD  (EDIT:  I misspoke and originally said DRO, meant to write VFD).

All three axis can be outfitted with powerfeed but sadly, cost is approximately $395 per axis.  Matt does this work at his warehouse.

BTW, the next shipment of these are leaving the factory in 5 days and the boat ride and local transportation is 4 weeks.  There are 2 or 3 of each type that will be available.  All others were sold beforehand.

Ray

EDIT:  PS, if the 935 is beyond your budget, there are still a handful of 932's in stock with power downfeed and 2 or 3 axis DRO.





lregister said:


> Hi Ray,
> So, does the VS model include the power table feed or is that extra as well? Also, do they not make a single phase Variable Speed model?
> Thanks,
> Larry


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## TimMTP

Actually, my VS is supposed to be single phase. Matt asked me which I preferred when I changed my order to a variable.


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## Ray C

Yes, single phase input from the wall outlet into a VFD that makes 3 phase power and feeds a 3 phase motor... Some machines are driven with DC motors whereby the AC wall power feeds a DC inverter to power the motor. DC motors with equivalent reliability are very expensive vs comparable AC motors... 





TimMTP said:


> Actually, my VS is supposed to be single phase. Matt asked me which I preferred when I changed my order to a variable.


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## TimMTP

I must be misunderstanding Matt then. Below is what he wrote me in an email:

"The only thing I forgot to ask for this one, since it is variable speed, do you want it in 3 phase, or single phase. WIth this one, with the single phase then you would not have to worry about a VFD on it, and you will still have the variable speed, just let me know."

That sounds like variable speed, single phase, with no VFD to me.


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## Ray C

Good heavens, it sounds to me he found a suitabe DC motor.  I know he's been looking for a while and had a hard time finding a good quality unit under $400.


Ray


TimMTP said:


> I must be misunderstanding Matt then. Below is what he wrote me in an email:
> 
> "The only thing I forgot to ask for this one, since it is variable speed, do you want it in 3 phase, or single phase. WIth this one, with the single phase then you would not have to worry about a VFD on it, and you will still have the variable speed, just let me know."
> 
> That sounds like variable speed, single phase, with no VFD to me.


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## qualitymachinetools

Hey Guys, just to clear it up. This machine does not have a VFD OR a DC Motor on it. Its a Variable Speed, just like the Bridgeport variable speed head is, with the variable belt with the tapered pulleys.

 Variable Speed head is on the right, Step Pulley Head is on the left. 

It is a single phase motor on the variable speed machine that is on the right there. The option that Ray is talking about is with a VFD and 3 phase. Thats not what Tim is getting, he ordered the single phase, Bridgeport type variable speed head. 

 Hope that cleared it up. No VFD involved on Tim's mill, but it is single phase for sure.


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## lregister

Hi Guys,

Just curious, is the handle on the side of the Variable Head the brake?  That's where it is on a Bridgeport.

Thanks,
Larry


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## qualitymachinetools

Yes Larry, its a brake, the step pulley has one too just in a different spot.


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## wrmiller

After reading/looking at pics of this mill I've come to the conclusion that this is just about the perfect mill size wise, for what I do. Maybe someday I'll have the room and money for one.


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## Ray C

Yes indeed... if I only had the space!   That mill, my manual PM45 (or 932) and the soon to arrive PM45 CNC -and my bases would be covered.

LOL, and with the 935, you won't have to worry about the dreaded "head-nod" issue (although I'm sure there's folks are out there ready to mention that the column is not easily adjustable  anic...


Ray




wrmiller19 said:


> After reading/looking at pics of this mill I've come to the conclusion that this is just about the perfect mill size wise, for what I do. Maybe someday I'll have the room and money for one.


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## Dan_S

Does anyone have the specs for the 935 handy? I have looked for them, but I haven't seen travel, weight, hp, speeds, etc  listed any where.


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## Rbeckett

Dan_S said:


> Does anyone have the specs for the 935 handy? I have looked for them, but I haven't seen travel, weight, hp, speeds, etc  listed any where.


Give Matt a call and he will give you every bit of that right away.  He's a stand up guy and still answers his own phone so you will get answers and help from him quick when you need it.  The site is getting updated regularly so I would expect to see it on the site soon too.  I am about to pull the trigger on a new machine, just gotta wait on a check to arrive and clear. Unfortunately a 932 and 935 are beyond my current budget so it will have to probably be a PM 45 or Pm35 VL long table. Just have to see if I can break the extra savings down from my disability pension to maybe boost it enough to go to the 932.  That is a pretty long stretch for me right now though.  W'ell just have to wait and see....But I am drooling to see yours when you get it too.  The new PM's are so pretty when they arrive with the blue base and pretty white heads and controls.  Just hope the white stands up to good ole shop scunge for a good while...I got plenty of 409 cleaner so it will be OK anyway.

Bob


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## Glitch

Dan_S said:


> Does anyone have the specs for the 935 handy? I have looked for them, but I haven't seen travel, weight, hp, speeds, etc  listed any where.



Ditto! Quill speeds???  Quill diameter? Travel? Anything chromed or hardened? Specs on spindle bearings?
curious to know why this would be a better choice than the Birmingham 9 x 49? Been looking for a long time now and the birminghams seem to produce the most bang for the buck.

most difficult part is to throw down five or six thousand dollars for a machine without having a chance to look at one! Hehehehe.  Read specs....look at pictures and scoure the net for any comments made by any other buyers... I think this is one of the first PM knee mill buyers I have ever read.... Been looking at the 9 x 32 for a while also..

i really want to do buisness with a independent owner than throw my money to any big companies...  Really wish machinetoolonline would post specs and prices on all machines instead of 
having to email and search...

Anyone heard from TimMTP? Has he recieved his machine? Love it or hate it?


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## Sparkymacker

I am waiting for mine to show up to!. Hopefully it gets out the door this coming week. I got the 3 phase version with a VFD. I only have single phase in my shop but the VFD is the ultimate phase converter and gives you infinite speed control. I decided to pimp mine out with a power feed on the X and a 3 axis DRO as well.


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## TimMTP

I'm still here. Mill probably won't show up to my place until sometime the first of Nov. The boat left on the 20th but takes ~4-5 weeks to get to Matt's place. I figure he'll take a week or two to process them and get them on the road to us anxious customers. I'm just taking the time to start stockpiling end mills, indicators, vice, collets, etc.


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## Ray C

Here you go... More detailed info and pricing for the 935 S and V models.

Ray

(See PDF attachment)

View attachment PM-935SPM-935V Specs and Quote Ray 10-7-13.pdf


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## TimMTP

Cool. Thanks Ray!


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## Sparkymacker

Hmmm...I was under the impression that the machines had arrived and were being prepped?


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## Ray C

A first batch came and was shipped a short while ago.  Of that batch, a couple of the non-variable models were left over but, they too are finding new homes.  More are on the way or have arrived.  He's received 2-3 shipments in the last couple weeks and all this time has been spent just getting them unloaded and put in the warehouse.  If he doesn't unload the trucks in a couple days, he pays a couple hundred bucks a day for truck rental time.  Right about now, he'll be processing the machines and shipping them.


Ray




Sparkymacker said:


> Hmmm...I was under the impression that the machines had arrived and were being prepped?


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## Stonebriar

That is the same shipment I am waiting on.  In the mean time I am partitioning my shop into a 30x27' machine room/work room to separate the machining side from tractor, boat, yard equipment.

Rick


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## Ray C

All,

Be apprised that Matt has received and is processing orders for 1236, 1030, 1022, 1020, 1440HD and 1640HD lathes. 

In addition, there are still a couple 935 machines from the last shipment but, they are still being processed and setup. The DRO conversions on these take time.

There are still a couple 932 mills left as well as the 1340 and 1440.


Ray

PS: The 1440HD is on my short list. The next runner-up is the 1440RML with the CSS feature. Big money difference but it's fun to dream. That 1440HD is calling to me. BTW: The 1440HD and 1640HD are identical machines but the 16" version has a 1" taller head and tailstock.


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## Glitch

Ray C said:


> Here you go... More detailed info and pricing for the 935 S and V models.
> 
> Ray
> 
> (See PDF attachment)
> 
> View attachment 61855



Thanks for posting that information Ray. It cleared up a lot of questions. Quill downfeed is pretty important on my shopping list. Pretty impressive to see it on these machines. Are the new machines painted where the head is the same color as the body? I know it's only aesthetics but that would drive me crazy! Hehehehehe


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## Ray C

But look at the bright side, they're painted a light color so it's easy to re-do the paint without needing second coats :LOL:.

Honestly though, fancy epoxy and paint is very costly but I do agree, it makes a machine look pretty nice...


Ray





Glitch said:


> Thanks for posting that information Ray. It cleared up a lot of questions. Quill downfeed is pretty important on my shopping list. Pretty impressive to see it on these machines. Are the new machines painted where the head is the same color as the body? I know it's only aesthetics but that would drive me crazy! Hehehehehe


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## Glitch

Ray C said:


> But look at the bright side, they're painted a light color so it's easy to re-do the paint without needing second coats :LOL:.
> 
> Honestly though, fancy epoxy and paint is very costly but I do agree, it makes a machine look pretty nice...
> 
> 
> Ray



I was referring to the black heads in the other pictures. I can deal with the off white cream color. Just that black head on there looks like something cobbled together...   The other photos I seen look pretty nice.....


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## Stonebriar

Here is what it looks like.

Rick


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## qualitymachinetools

Hey Guys,
 Don't worry, Ray is right, for the 935T Mills, I have some machines here already, just 2 left (But sold already), one to B.C. that we finished up the paperwork for customs so will be on the way, and then one going to TX that we are holding until they are ready for it. 

 I have another shipment of them coming about the first week of November, 24 machines, with a few left of each model. 

 We are packed full right now, about 200-300 machines in stock, from new 10x20 lathes, to 1640 Lathes, and everything in between.


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## Sparkymacker

That is mine, heading to it's new home in BC! I will post a picture of it when I wrestle it into my shop. I am in the unfortunate (or fortunate) position of having no room left when that arrives!





qualitymachinetools said:


> Hey Guys,
> Don't worry, Ray is right, for the 935T Mills, I have some machines here already, just 2 left (But sold already), one to B.C. that we finished up the paperwork for customs so will be on the way, and then one going to TX that we are holding until they are ready for it.
> 
> I have another shipment of them coming about the first week of November, 24 machines, with a few left of each model.
> 
> We are packed full right now, about 200-300 machines in stock, from new 10x20 lathes, to 1640 Lathes, and everything in between.


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## Glitch

Stonebriar said:


> View attachment 62004
> 
> 
> Here is what it looks like.
> 
> Rick



This photo was posted by Matt with Precision Matthews on the first page of this thread.
This is what I. Hoped they looked like! 



Rick, do you work for Matt or own one of these machines? 
I think I might be experiencing machine lust! Hehehehehe


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## Stonebriar

No, I am just a new customer of Matt.  I have one on order.  Should be here end of the month.


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## Ray C

This style of machine always reminded me of the "Alien".  Someone with enough artistic ability could probably paint one and make it look just like the "Alien".


FYI:  The specs and components on this machine are really darn nice.  Oh how I wish I had more space...


Ray




Glitch said:


> This photo was posted by Matt with Precision Matthews on the first page of this thread.
> This is what I. Hoped they looked like!
> 
> View attachment 62040
> 
> Rick, do you work for Matt or own one of these machines?
> I think I might be experiencing machine lust! Hehehehehe


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## Glitch

Stonebriar said:


> No, I am just a new customer of Matt.  I have one on order.  Should be here end of the month.



Awsome!!   You Tim and Sparky have got to be pretty pumped. I've been looking for more than 4 years now! Everyone says "don't get in no big hurry".   Screw that! I'm ready to carve on some metal! Sick of looking at over priced worn out pieces of crap!

My shop is not ready yet anyway but will be finished in about a month. Some insulation, liner panels and finish the wiring..... If I can't find the mill I want I might buy the 932 for now but really would like one of the 935s. Maybe that will keep me occupied for now...

pretty excited for you guys!  Are you hobbiest? Machine shop? Specific hobby? 
Matt sure seems to fill the needs for the home shop guys....   Eventually will want a bigger lathe as well...


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## Stonebriar

Glitch,
I am a hobbyist, but I retire in 2 years and 2 months.  I am really looking forward to spending many, many hours playing with my 935 and the PM 1236 lathe. 

Like you I got tired looking at worn out mills here for top dollar.  I didn't want a project, I wanted something to use.

Rick


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## Sparkymacker

I am just taking up metal work as a hobby, as you get older you need safer hobbies! I like the idea of just being able make  yourself a new part when the old one breaks. I picked up another welder today so my little shop is really getting cramped now. I was looking at picking up a milling machine locally but all the ones I found were old and heavy! As well they were all around the $3,500 to $4,000 range. I was going to get the PM-45 but I liked the idea of a compact knee mill.


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## Ray C

Good choice but do have a look at the 932 as well.  It has power table and also power Z axis -which is a real life saver.  BTW:  The heads on those machines are identical.  Only differences are the castings to accommodate different power feeds and available with different options.

Also, be apprised that the PM (quality machine tool) version are the only ones where the heads are identical.  Other vendors have slightly different guts.  Also the PM machines have hardened/balanced gears -also not found on most of the other brands.

Ray




Sparkymacker said:


> I am just taking up metal work as a hobby, as you get older you need safer hobbies! I like the idea of just being able make  yourself a new part when the old one breaks. I picked up another welder today so my little shop is really getting cramped now. I was looking at picking up a milling machine locally but all the ones I found were old and heavy! As well they were all around the $3,500 to $4,000 range. I was going to get the PM-45 but I liked the idea of a compact knee mill.


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## TimMTP

Glitch said:


> ...Are you hobbiest? Machine shop? Specific hobby?...



I just opened up a new business building custom 1911s. I've gone about as far as I can go with files and a drill. Time to up the capabilities just a bit.


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## VTX1800

Guys,
I have two PM machines I am talking to Matt about.
The PM-935T-S mill and the PM-1440E-LB lathe.
Matt sent me a list of accessories and I pretty much selected everything.
I was especially impressed with the single phase 220 input VFD that provides variable speed control for the three phase motors. Heavier motors than I expected.

Observation:

The Hitachi WJ200-022SF VFD rated at 3 HP is the same for both machines.

The motors in the machines are 3 HP three phase.
This is the max HP for this model VFD.
Are the Hitachi VFDs rated conservatively?


Is it advisable to upgrade to the Hitachi WJ200-037LF VFD rated at 5 HP for these 3 HP motors?
The cost difference is negligible if the 5 HP unit would provide superior performance, programming features, and reliability.

Anyone else have some practical experience or opinion?

Regards,

Ted


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## VTX1800

Guys,

After clearing room for the lathe I noticed a severe incline to the cement floor in the garage.
2 to 3 inches over six feet.

I am thinking of the following remedy.
Steel plates a few inches wider than the cast iron base at each end.
Bolt the cast iron base on top of the plates through the provided holes.
Provide jack screws on the wings of the plates beyond the base to level the plates and thereby the lathe.
This would permit the cast iron lathe base to fully contact a supporting surface.
Unintended consequences include a very tall lathe.

I do not want to use jack screws only in the provided base holes.
I believe this would produce significant pressure in a small area of the cast iron.
Over time resulting in stress cracks and failure.

Anyone else have to overcome a similar leveling issue?
Is there a simple and practical remedy?

Regards,

Ted


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## Brain Coral

Hello Ted,

Your idea will work, but it may feel awkward if you are standing on a slope while using a level machine. If I were you, I would lay out the area where the lathe will sit as well as a few feet in front of the lathe where you will work from. On the downhill sides, install a temporary dam of sufficient height to bring to level, then pour self-leveling concrete over the area. Make sure that you add the appropiate amount of water for it to flow to level. It needs a little help with a trowel to spread, but then let it find its way. Let it cure for at least a few days before installing the lathe. You will still have to level the lathe with shims, or whatever method you prefer, but this will give you a nice surface to start from. If the abrupt edges are a tripping hazard, mix up more levelling concrete to a thicker consistency and fair those spots in.

I hope that this helps. 

Brian


----------



## VTX1800

Hello Brian,

Yes I thought about doing this.
Unfortunately the layout is projected to have the lathe and the mill face each other.
The space is only 10.5 feet wide and eight feet long.
The rest of the garage is filled with woodworking machines.

If I need this level concrete under both machines it will leave a sunken path of only 2 to 3 feet wide.
As for standing...since the lathe will be elevated I was considering a wooden platform raised a few inches and level with the lathe.  Wood is easier to stand on.  Maybe a rubber mat would be better.

I hinted at expanding into the family room and she gave me that look.

Regards,

Ted


----------



## Brain Coral

VTX1800 said:


> Hello Brian,
> 
> Yes I thought about doing this.
> Unfortunately the layout is projected to have the lathe and the mill face each other.
> The space is only 10.5 feet wide and eight feet long.
> The rest of the garage is filled with woodworking machines.
> 
> If I need this level concrete under both machines it will leave a sunken path of only 2 to 3 feet wide.
> As for standing...since the lathe will be elevated I was considering a wooden platform raised a few inches and level with the lathe. Wood is easier to stand on. Maybe a rubber mat would be better.
> 
> I hinted at expanding into the family room and she gave me that look.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ted




Oh....... the withering look..... * sigh * ....  us mere mortals cannot defy such a look without the possibility of turning into a pillar of salt....:yikes:

I really like your idea of a wooden platform to overcome this. It seems to me that in a lot of older machine shops that this was common practice, regardless of the level of the floor. I have thought of doing that very same thing at my milling machine because the drawbar for the head is so darned high and I have a heel that bothers me when I stand too long on concrete.\

Show us some pics when you get things in place.

Brian


----------



## Sparkymacker

VTX1800 said:


> Guys,
> 
> After clearing room for the lathe I noticed a severe incline to the cement floor in the garage.
> 2 to 3 inches over six feet.
> 
> I am thinking of the following remedy.
> Steel plates a few inches wider than the cast iron base at each end.
> Bolt the cast iron base on top of the plates through the provided holes.
> Provide jack screws on the wings of the plates beyond the base to level the plates and thereby the lathe.
> This would permit the cast iron lathe base to fully contact a supporting surface.
> Unintended consequences include a very tall lathe.
> 
> I do not want to use jack screws only in the provided base holes.
> I believe this would produce significant pressure in a small area of the cast iron.
> Over time resulting in stress cracks and failure.
> 
> Anyone else have to overcome a similar leveling issue?
> Is there a simple and practical remedy?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ted



The simple and practical solution is to use the leveling feet in the holes provided in the lathe base. You are dividing the load over (6) points so the actual point load on each one is negligible.  The only reason I would build a contraption like you are proposing is if you wanted to gain height in the case of a mill for comfortable working height.


----------



## VTX1800

Hey Sparky...

Looks like JohnnyC14 built something very similar and functional for his PM932.

PM932 Arrival thread pictures.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showt...w-PM32PDF-mill

1500 pound lathe
6 points
250 pounds per point.
1/2 inch bolt
.2 sq.in.
1250 PSI
negligible.


----------



## Sparkymacker

There is a few of those on youtube as well, like I say seems to be more to gain height on the mill. The feet have a rating of 5,000 pounds I think and you use a washer on the base so that cuts the PSI on the base by a third? This is how I did mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM_kaR7fOQs




VTX1800 said:


> Hey Sparky...
> 
> Looks like JohnnyC14 built something very similar and functional for his PM932.
> 
> PM932 Arrival thread pictures.
> 
> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showt...w-PM32PDF-mill
> 
> 1500 pound lathe
> 6 points
> 250 pounds per point.
> 1/2 inch bolt
> .2 sq.in.
> 1250 PSI
> negligible.


----------



## VTX1800

Sparky,
Very nice shop,  I am jealous.  It is so spacious.
I have asked Matt for a quote to get the PM-1440E-LB.
Great to see another PM-1440E out there.
Might be a month before I get mine.
Then a week to set it up and clean and bring a new 220 electrical service drop to it.
Let me know your thoughts and observations regarding the lathe.
Matt is very knowledgeable and answered all my questions.
He described the VFD performance benefits with a 3 HP 3 phase motor.
Very impressive.
I asked for the 2 axis DRO package as well.

Cheers,

Ted


----------



## Sparkymacker

Thanks Ted, I wish it was twice as big though..haha. My lathe is a single phase, I was not too worried about 3 phase vs single phase for that. My milling machine is going to be a 3 phase with the VFD which should be nice for speed control. I have a lot of experience with VFD's on phase conversion so I will post a video when I get it up and running.

The only complaint I have about the lathe is I have been plagued with oil leaks on it. I think I have it almost solved but it is a bit disappointing, like buying a new truck and finding your driveway covered in oil the next morning. I have had the cover off a few times trying to fix it and I am going to have to take it off once more as one of the gear change dials is still not right as both the screws are running in the A position.

The same lathe up here with a different tag on it was more expensive without the DRO so I am not complaining too much.

Gerry



VTX1800 said:


> Sparky,
> Very nice shop,  I am jealous.  It is so spacious.
> I have asked Matt for a quote to get the PM-1440E-LB.
> Great to see another PM-1440E out there.
> Might be a month before I get mine.
> Then a week to set it up and clean and bring a new 220 electrical service drop to it.
> Let me know your thoughts and observations regarding the lathe.
> Matt is very knowledgeable and answered all my questions.
> He described the VFD performance benefits with a 3 HP 3 phase motor.
> Very impressive.
> I asked for the 2 axis DRO package as well.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ted


----------



## Sparkymacker

Well the PM-935 showed up at work today...








The next step is to get it home....


----------



## VTX1800

Gerry,
I am very interested in how you are getting this from here to your shop, off the pallet and set up.
Please let us know and post some pictures if you can of the process.
I will hopefully be getting a PM-935T-S soon.

Huge congrats on getting this.

Ted


----------



## Sparkymacker

Hi Ted

I am interested in that as well....have not quite figured it out yet either! Last time I had a crane truck pick up the lathe and drop it right in my back yard, however that tipped my wife off to possibility of a new purchase! I think I am going to load it on my car trailer and haul it home on that, then see get another crane truck to hoist it into the backyard. It has been raining a lot this weekend so I am waiting until the weather improves, I have the mill safely stored inside our shop at work.


of 





VTX1800 said:


> Gerry,
> I am very interested in how you are getting this from here to your shop, off the pallet and set up.
> Please let us know and post some pictures if you can of the process.
> I will hopefully be getting a PM-935T-S soon.
> 
> Huge congrats on getting this.
> 
> Ted


----------



## Ray C

Uh, I think you better hire a magician to help sneak that past the other half...

Good luck with that.

Ray




Sparkymacker said:


> Hi Ted
> 
> I am interested in that as well....have not quite figured it out yet either! Last time I had a crane truck pick up the lathe and drop it right in my back yard, however that tipped my wife off to possibility of a new purchase! I think I am going to load it on my car trailer and haul it home on that, then see get another crane truck to hoist it into the backyard. It has been raining a lot this weekend so I am waiting until the weather improves, I have the mill safely stored inside our shop at work.
> 
> 
> of


----------



## VTX1800

Ray C said:


> Uh, I think you better hire a magician to help sneak that past the other half...
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> Ray



Hi Ray,

I just completely remodeled the kitchen for her after 30 years.
Upscale hardwood cabinets, over the range microwave, new floor, special sink and faucet, and the granite countertop she chose.  So she is going to be distracted for a while.
I am trying to get both the PM-935T-S mill and the PM-1340GT lathe.
Then she will kill me.

cheers,

Ted


----------



## Sparkymacker

Well, got it inside the shop....





Turned out to be an epic struggle though! Last time I rented a crane truck that dropped the lathe right on the pad in front of my shop and all I had to do is wheel it inside with a pallet jack. Although painless, it was expensive! I know another guy who has a Hiab and although I knew it was going to be dicey, the price was right. Well turns out about all he could do is lift it over my fence, so I got home to a nearly 2,000 pound crate sitting in the middle of a soggy lawn. After a half hour of grunting and tugging with my ATV I knew I had made the wrong decision. Instead of throwing in the towel, I attacked it Egyptian style with planks and rollers to get in across the lawn. The entrance to my shop is up an incline as well, so another round of planks and rollers to get it through the door. After 3 1/2 hours in the dark and rain I could finally get it inside with the pallet jack. Time for a shot of Crown Royal!


----------



## Sparkymacker

Well unpacked and sitting on the floor, just have to run in a 240V/20A circuit tomorrow and it will be up and running!


----------



## VTX1800

Gerry,
I see the shop crane.
The spread of the legs is narrow.
How did you get it around the pallet?

And the height of the crane; were the motor and quill rotated 90 degrees?

I see one strap strategically placed under the base and twisted around the front.
Was there a second strap around the rear of the base and the ram?
Did you have a load leveler on the crane?

Good job.

regards,

Ted


----------



## Rbeckett

I'm still salivating madly waiting for some PM Porn.  Everytime Matt puts a pic string up I have to try a different way to balance my checkbook.  Too bad I cant just wish about 10 grand into my account and pull the trigger on a maxed out 935 power everything and 3 axis DRO.   So c'mon Matt, post up some new mill porn I am having withdrawals waiting...    I did find a very good deal on a Clausing 8520 Mill, so it is just a matter of time till it shows up and I can start making scrap in earnest...Since I got the shop cleared out I have been enjoying seeing the floor I poured on my way to Iraq.  I actually have enough room for all my machines to run all at the same time if I want.   So please fellows don't forget the cheesecake pics of the uncrating ceremonies when your new machines arrive.  It would certainly brighten an old cripples day to see someone else with that huge Cheshire cat grin going on...


Bob


----------



## Sparkymacker

Hi Ted

I had to lift the mill up with the shop crane to get the pallet off. Once the pallet was removed the mill would fit between the legs of the shop crane. There is a lifting eye in the middle of the mill but more of the weight is on the front. I had to add the strap on the front so that the bite was more on the front when I lifted it, ended up being balanced quite well. I rotated the head 180 down so that it was more manageable for lifting. Got it powered up yesterday and cut a few chips! I have to get a milling vice now!

Gerry



VTX1800 said:


> Gerry,
> I see the shop crane.
> The spread of the legs is narrow.
> How did you get it around the pallet?
> 
> And the height of the crane; were the motor and quill rotated 90 degrees?
> 
> I see one strap strategically placed under the base and twisted around the front.
> Was there a second strap around the rear of the base and the ram?
> Did you have a load leveler on the crane?
> 
> Good job.
> 
> regards,
> 
> Ted


----------



## Glitch

Hey folks!

Lust took over and I also ordered a 9x35V.  Nice to see you got yours all cozy in your shop already sparky! I am the same as sparky and Stonebriar. Just a hobbiest looking to buy a quality machine without having to troubleshoot or rebuild a new chinese machine. About 9 years from retirement getting all my toys bought. 
Tim, me looks like you made a very nice upgrade from files! Hehehehe...
Hoped you guys could maybe help with some information since some of you have your machines already...
What is your spindle nose size so I can go ahead and order a indicol clamp.
what oils were reccomended for the machine? Light spindle oil? Any certain way oil?
anything else I need to know ahead of time?
is there any kind of manual or literature?
has anyone run a indicator on the spindle? Running true?

i appreciate any and all help.


----------



## Sparkymacker

Hi Glitch

It is all cozy but that is as far as it has gotten so far! Been busy at work the last couple of weeks so no energy left to play around in the shop. I have to finish running the 120V in this weekend. I am about 7-9 years out from retirement too, depending on how much longer I work! I am probably going to go to part time after 65 if circumstances permit. I ordered up a vise and some other odds and ends yesterday. I was going to get a Kurt vise but I decided since I am planning on building any space shuttles a generic one would do. I also ordered up a facing mill and a horizontal dial gauge so I can set the nod and tram as I manipulated the head getting it in place. I bolted some aluminum in and made a few chips, this is my youtube of the momentous occasion!

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CXuLHlThlE

QUOTE=Glitch;160941]Hey folks!

Lust took over and I also ordered a 9x35V.  Nice to see you got yours all cozy in your shop already sparky! I am the same as sparky and Stonebriar. Just a hobbiest looking to buy a quality machine without having to troubleshoot or rebuild a new chinese machine. About 9 years from retirement getting all my toys bought. 
Tim, me looks like you made a very nice upgrade from files! Hehehehe...
Hoped you guys could maybe help with some information since some of you have your machines already...
What is your spindle nose size so I can go ahead and order a indicol clamp.
what oils were reccomended for the machine? Light spindle oil? Any certain way oil?
anything else I need to know ahead of time?
is there any kind of manual or literature?
has anyone run a indicator on the spindle? Running true?

i appreciate any and all help.[/QUOTE]


----------



## lregister

Hi Sparky,

Looks great, congrats!!!  Just curious, what is making the rattling noise when it's running?  Does that persist when running at a higher speed?  I would think it would be quiet and smooth without the noise.  It almost sounds like dry gears.


----------



## Sparkymacker

lregister said:


> Hi Sparky,
> 
> Looks great, congrats!!!  Just curious, what is making the rattling noise when it's running?  Does that persist when running at a higher speed?  I would think it would be quiet and smooth without the noise.  It almost sounds like dry gears.



Yeah I thought it was a bit noisy too, I should check into that.


----------



## Ray C

Ah, I see/hear what you're talking about...  That sure sounds like a v-belt rattling to me.  The noise went away as soon as he blipped the speed control and you can even see the belt rattling a little.  I'm not familiar with that unit but, I gotta think there's a way to set the belt tension...


Ray





lregister said:


> Hi Sparky,
> 
> Looks great, congrats!!! Just curious, what is making the rattling noise when it's running? Does that persist when running at a higher speed? I would think it would be quiet and smooth without the noise. It almost sounds like dry gears.


----------



## Sparkymacker

Hi Ray

I noticed it seems to be coming off the back pulley, if you put a bit of tension on it it goes away. The motor is on a pivot that allows you to loosen the belts for changing the speed. I will tighten them up more tonight and see if that cures it. I sent Matt a e-mail for his suggestions.



Ray C said:


> Ah, I see/hear what you're talking about...  That sure sounds like a v-belt rattling to me.  The noise went away as soon as he blipped the speed control and you can even see the belt rattling a little.  I'm not familiar with that unit but, I gotta think there's a way to set the belt tension...
> 
> 
> Ray


----------



## Sparkymacker

Well...the noise was not what I thought it was. I think it is related to the back gear that is High/Low speed, once I take it out of high it locks up solid? Hopefully I can track down Matt tomorrow and see what his thoughts are.


----------



## Sparkymacker

Well that was bugging me so I went on you tube and looked around a bit on google. I realized that the lever on the top of the head that operates the clutch for the back drive should move freely. When you move it too the high speed position and rotate the pulley it should drop down to engage the clutch. Well the lever on mine was not moving freely at all, I pushed it to the back a bit and that stopped the noise. The sleeve that it slides in is completely seized not allowing it to engage and disengage. Obviously no one ran it on high and low speeds before it left the warehouse. To say I am upset is an understatement so I will be on the phone tomorrow, see what happens.:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:


----------



## Stonebriar

Let us know what you find out.  I have one at the warehouse waiting to be packaged up.


----------



## Sparkymacker

I got in touch with Matt today and he has given me a couple of things to try. He got right back to me on e-mail (best way to get in touch with him). I will try them tonight and see what happens. I was a bit frustrated last night and should not have posted anything until I spoke with Matt, so please do not draw any inferences from my earlier comments. To be fair to him the machine traveled probably 2,500 miles before it got to me and I know zero about them! I am sure a good portion of his sales are to people like me that are clueless and he has to deal with us on a daily basis!


----------



## Rbeckett

Sparky,
I am sure by now you have spoken to Matt and he is sending out the parts you need to repair the issue.  It has been my experience in following him and his products that he is a stand up fellow who will do what ever  it takes to get you back in the game and whole again.  So I understand being a little angry and frustrated, but anything made by a human being can have an issue and what sets Matt apart from many of the others is how he steps up and takes care of any issue first and worries about paperwork and admin junk later.  I think you will be pleasantly surprised how quickly and professionally Matt gets your issue resolved.  Just sayin....

Bob


----------



## Sparkymacker

Well I did a little research and talked to Matt today and figured out what was going on. The biggest problem it turns out was I did not know how the hi/low part of the spindle works. When you push the lever on the top to the back it lifts up the spline that the front pulleys are mounted on and you are only running off the back gear. When the spline disengages the clearance between the "dogs" is quite limited, so the noise I was getting was the lower part hitting the top part ever so slightly. The reason I could not get the spindle back together was that the fit is quite tight between the two shafts so gravity was not enough to let it drop into place as you rotated the pulley. Matt said to just line the "dogs" up by eye and give the ring on top a tap with a plastic hammer. The travel is only about 1/4" so they popped together no problem. I worked them up and down a few times and the friction was a lot less. In doing a little reading this is a common "problem" with this style of Bridgeport head; the set screws that travel in the cam loosen up and you don't disengage the spline totally and get what sounds like horrendous noises. 

After experimenting with the speeds a bit, I am just going to leave the head in high anyways; with the VFD you get a good speed range. The range is probably just as good or better than working the pulleys and back gear. 

I am embarrassed for over reacting and will be e-mailing Matt in the morning to apologize for pushing the panic button. You have to be in the right frame of mind when experimenting with things, and after working for about 11 hours I was definitely out of patience.


----------



## Tony Wells

One of the most notorious, horrible, end of the world sound that can come from a BP step pulley drive is when you shift that collar down, but it does not engage properly. If you hit the power, you will hear it. I don't know any machinists who have never done it or heard it. I have a habit of holding the spindle nose and moving the motor pulley until it drops in with a reassuring clunk, if it isn't. I thought that might be part of your problem, or perhaps if the brake lever is held in "brake" position, that collar cannot drop into place.

Glad you got it resolved, at any rate.


----------



## Ray C

This is the nature of things along with the learning process.  In days gone by, when equipment like this was purchased, it would be delivered and installed by a technician that helped resolve these things or, it would have been purchased locally where you could get direct help.    Anyhow, I saw this post a few days ago but, really couldn't help because I'm not familiar with the machine but, I had a feeling it was just a matter of getting things setup properly.


Ray





Sparkymacker said:


> Well I did a little research and talked to Matt today and figured out what was going on. The biggest problem it turns out was I did not know how the hi/low part of the spindle works. When you push the lever on the top to the back it lifts up the spline that the front pulleys are mounted on and you are only running off the back gear. When the spline disengages the clearance between the "dogs" is quite limited, so the noise I was getting was the lower part hitting the top part ever so slightly. The reason I could not get the spindle back together was that the fit is quite tight between the two shafts so gravity was not enough to let it drop into place as you rotated the pulley. Matt said to just line the "dogs" up by eye and give the ring on top a tap with a plastic hammer. The travel is only about 1/4" so they popped together no problem. I worked them up and down a few times and the friction was a lot less. In doing a little reading this is a common "problem" with this style of Bridgeport head; the set screws that travel in the cam loosen up and you don't disengage the spline totally and get what sounds like horrendous noises.
> 
> After experimenting with the speeds a bit, I am just going to leave the head in high anyways; with the VFD you get a good speed range. The range is probably just as good or better than working the pulleys and back gear.
> 
> I am embarrassed for over reacting and will be e-mailing Matt in the morning to apologize for pushing the panic button. You have to be in the right frame of mind when experimenting with things, and after working for about 11 hours I was definitely out of patience.


----------



## VTX1800

Sparkymacker said:


> Well that was bugging me so I went on you tube and looked around a bit on google. I realized that the lever on the top of the head that operates the clutch for the back drive should move freely. When you move it too the high speed position and rotate the pulley it should drop down to engage the clutch. Well the lever on mine was not moving freely at all, I pushed it to the back a bit and that stopped the noise. The sleeve that it slides in is completely seized not allowing it to engage and disengage. Obviously no one ran it on high and low speeds before it left the warehouse. To say I am upset is an understatement so I will be on the phone tomorrow, see what happens.:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:



Gerry,
Sorry to hear you have an issue with the mill.
I am about to order the PM-935T-S mill and have been following your latest experience.
Thanks for sharing the effort and steps you are taking to restore proper operation.
Did the mill come with comprehensive mechanical drawings and electrical schematic and parts list?
The mechanical drawings I am used to would help to see how the critical parts are put together.
Praise God you are OK and there is no major damage.
Have a blessed and happy Thanksgiving with your family.

Ted


----------



## Ray C

The OP updated the situation and there's nothing wrong with the machine...





VTX1800 said:


> Gerry,
> Sorry to hear you have an issue with the mill.
> I am about to order the PM-935T-S mill and have been following your latest experience.
> Thanks for sharing the effort and steps you are taking to restore proper operation.
> Did the mill come with comprehensive mechanical drawings and electrical schematic and parts list?
> The mechanical drawings I am used to would help to see how the critical parts are put together.
> Praise God you are OK and there is no major damage.
> Have a blessed and happy Thanksgiving with your family.
> 
> Ted


----------



## Sparkymacker

Hi Ted

Actually we celebrate Thanksgiving in October, but thanks for the sentiment! The machine does come with some documentation but it is the typical stuff that has been photocopied a million times and things are lost in the translation (Chinglish). As well there are numerous variations of the machine so it is not exactly as pictured, but this typical of any Asian tools I have ever purchased. Hopefully my misadventures save someone else a bit of frustration! )



VTX1800 said:


> Gerry,
> Sorry to hear you have an issue with the mill.
> I am about to order the PM-935T-S mill and have been following your latest experience.
> Thanks for sharing the effort and steps you are taking to restore proper operation.
> Did the mill come with comprehensive mechanical drawings and electrical schematic and parts list?
> The mechanical drawings I am used to would help to see how the critical parts are put together.
> Praise God you are OK and there is no major damage.
> Have a blessed and happy Thanksgiving with your family.
> 
> Ted


----------



## Ray C

All...

A few words about documentation from someone who has 4-6 technical writers on staff...

First, something you may not be aware of...  The minute a distributor includes a document with a product, they assume responsibility and liability in much expanded ways.  This raises the cost liability insurance through the roof.  To safeguard from this, the next step is to have the document approved by an attorney who specializes in that area.  We happen to have on-staff attorneys but, a typical fee for outside services would be about $30,000 -for one single document.  We've all seen those documents... They are devoid of useful information and filled with legal/safety disclaimers.

Second, creating the initial document (if you hire a technical writer) typically involves $10,000 of initial labor.  If you present a non-professionally produced document to a liability attorney, they will charge to re-write the document at a much higher fee.

Third, on average the documents I dealt with were 25 -100 pages.  The annual cost of keeping them up to date and getting them re-approved was about $25,000 per year.

The next time you feel disappointment about the poor quality of your machine's documentation, try to realize that documentation costs alone can drive a small company out of business. 

The recent trend is to have online community support groups...  I like having good documentation too but, not when it raises the cost of something by 20% -and especially when you only need to read it once, maybe twice in your lifetime.


Ray


----------



## Sparkymacker

Like I said the information that comes with the machine is typical and what I would have expected so I am not disappointed or upset in that regard; it is what it is. When you buy these Asian machines there are trade offs and you should be aware of that going in. The price is right and over time you can tweak things to  your satisfaction, I think that is why all of us are interested in this as a hobby as we like to tinker with things. Personally I can never leave well enough alone, so I accept the consequences good or bad!)


----------



## Ray C

Hi Sparkymacker...  Just so you know, it wasn't my intention to speak critically of your post.  I just really wanted to let folks know that documentation causes all kinds of headaches for small companies.  My apologies if my message came across the wrong way.

I've worked in some very small companies and the documentation process easily consumed 30% of the engineering department and various managers.  -That's a huge expense to pass on to the customer.  And sadly enough, I've experienced that most customers only glance-over the documentation and still end-up calling the technical support line for things that are clearly stated in the documentation.  It's a real sore issue for most businesses.  In most cases, the documentation costs are so high, the company is forced to cut corners in all other aspects of the product or business.  This is why so many companies charge fees for technical training -and on sophisticated products (like CAD/CAM programs or high end machinery) there's a whole industry wrapped around providing technical support and training.

Ray





Sparkymacker said:


> Like I said the information that comes with the machine is typical and what I would have expected so I am not disappointed or upset in that regard; it is what it is. When you buy these Asian machines there are trade offs and you should be aware of that going in. The price is right and over time you can tweak things to  your satisfaction, I think that is why all of us are interested in this as a hobby as we like to tinker with things. Personally I can never leave well enough alone, so I accept the consequences good or bad!)


----------



## Sparkymacker

Hi Ray, no worries! Just wanted to confirm I was not being critical either of what came with the machine with regards to a manual. My vise showed up yesterday so I have retrieve it out of my truck after I finish my coffee and see what it looks like!


----------



## VTX1800

Ray C said:


> Hi Sparkymacker...  Just so you know, it wasn't my intention to speak critically of your post.  I just really wanted to let folks know that documentation causes all kinds of headaches for small companies.  My apologies if my message came across the wrong way.
> 
> Ray



Ray,
Your description of the documentation expense and expectations from foreign companies is acceptable.
However, since many of these imports are "clones" of old American designs; are there documentation resources in the public domain that would be helpful to owners of these machines and this forum?
Specifically, mechanical drawings and electrical schematics.

I appreciate the forum users sharing experiences and coming together to help a fellow hobby machinist.

Cheers,

Ted


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## Ray C

The original US design for many of these machines was called the "Birmingham" pattern.  This is much akin to a 1911 pattern handgun...  Same parts -made by many companies...   I believe there are some distributors going by the Birmingham name but, they are cheap (as in really cheap) imports.  I'm not aware of any parts manuals for it and if they existed, they're likely out of date.  Many distributors order these with slight customizations allowing different speed ranges and spindle bores etc...  Those things are not likely captured in any older documentation.

I will mention this however... Lathes are not rocket science -not by any means.  Anyone who can take a single speed bicycle apart and put it back together, can work on a simple lathe like these.  This is not true of some of the Leblonds and Monarchs -which have pressurized oil distribution and gear systems with complexity on the order of a manual transmission.  -But then again, without any training at all, I've rebuilt more manual transmissions and differentials than you can shake a stick at...

Ray





VTX1800 said:


> Ray,
> Your description of the documentation expense and expectations from foreign companies is acceptable.
> However, since many of these imports are "clones" of old American designs; are there documentation resources in the public domain that would be helpful to owners of these machines and this forum?
> Specifically, mechanical drawings and electrical schematics.
> 
> I appreciate the forum users sharing experiences and coming together to help a fellow hobby machinist.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ted


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## TimMTP

Well, it wasn't soon and we had a bit of thread drift, but it finally arrived.

With the help of a couple of friends, it went through a 36" door and landed in it's spot just like we knew what we were doing.

Now I just have to finish clean up, finish set up, and learn how to use the silly thing.


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## VTX1800

Tim,

Congrats. Great teamwork.
Thanks for posting the pictures of the mill in the crate.
I kinda thought they would have to invert the motor and move the knee all the way down.
Did you use pipes under the mill to move it around?

After reading these forum posts and many emails and phone calls with Matt I am finally going to get a PM-935T-S mill.
I was supposed to travel to his location this morning.
It is 8 degrees here and the roads have been a mess all week.
Massive cold, snow, freezing rain storm headed our way today.
Will have to wait for next Saturday.
They forecast it might be almost 50 degrees by then.
Hope so.

Cheers,
Ted


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## TimMTP

VTX1800 said:


> Tim,
> 
> Did you use pipes under the mill to move it around?



Yes. We cut the pallet down width wise and took the boards off the bottom so the pipes could enter and exit freely.


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## VTX1800

Tim,
Finally had an opportunity to pick up the PM-935T-S mill yesterday.
The weather was warm. In the 40s but rained constantly.
Got home by 7:00 p.m. and it was dark and foggy.
Three friends helped drag the pallet off the trailer and into the garage.
Used pipes under 2x4 boards under the pallet.
One neighbor brought over a two ton engine hoist.
Really needed that.
Two hours to from the trailer to placing and leveling the mill.
Spent the rest of the day cleaning and setting up.

Cheers,

Ted


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## TimMTP

I'm probably going to have to get an engine hoist to fine tune mine a bit. The pallet that it's still on is not rigid enough. I'm going to have to pick it up to put something firmer under it. I'm thinking a 6x6 frame or something along those lines. I'm 6'4" so I want the mill to be a little taller so I don't have to bend over so much.


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## Ray C

You're very smart to customize the machine for your needs!  My surface grinder is too low and after a couple hours, it can cause some real kinks in the back if you're not careful.


Ray



TimMTP said:


> I'm probably going to have to get an engine hoist to fine tune mine a bit. The pallet that it's still on is not rigid enough. I'm going to have to pick it up to put something firmer under it. I'm thinking a 6x6 frame or something along those lines. I'm 6'4" so I want the mill to be a little taller so I don't have to bend over so much.


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## wrmiller

TimMTP said:


> I'm probably going to have to get an engine hoist to fine tune mine a bit. The pallet that it's still on is not rigid enough. I'm going to have to pick it up to put something firmer under it. I'm thinking a 6x6 frame or something along those lines. I'm 6'4" so I want the mill to be a little taller so I don't have to bend over so much.



I did something similar with my little SB lathe by mounting it on a 43" tall tool box lower, and will do the same for my little PM25. I'm a inch shorter than you, but I still have issues with standard height benches and such. Makes my lower back hurt just thinking about it.  

Bill


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## Ed W

I built a base frame of 2" square tube with Footmaster caster/levelers (which support 1100 lbs each) and raised my PM-932 a total of 5 inches.  Not only does it roll easily when needed, the levels are independently adjustable and are rubber and dampen vibration nicely.  The table height went from 34" to 39" which suites me just fine.
Ed


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## Smudgemo

Any new photos with chips and oil to show off, Tim?  The TS would just fit in my garage and I'm thinking of buying one to replace my Grizzly bench mill.


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## jaychris

I'm just in the process of ordering one of these guys.  The hit to my wallet hurts, but it needs to be done and I can't find a higher quality turn-key mill that is sized like this one.  Perfect for my small shop.

You never really realize how badly you need a mill until you own/run a lathe without a owning a mill.


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## TimMTP

Some work and a mod.

I haven't updated this in a while so here's a pic of some small work along with a mod I made. I have a 3 axis DRO but didn't have anything to measure quill movement. My gunsmithing instructor had this setup so I decided to duplicate it the best I could. Works well.


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## jaychris

TimMTP said:


> Some work and a mod.
> 
> I haven't updated this in a while so here's a pic of some small work along with a mod I made. I have a 3 axis DRO but didn't have anything to measure quill movement. My gunsmithing instructor had this setup so I decided to duplicate it the best I could. Works well.



You mention you have a 3-axis DRO.  Out of curiosity, did you ask to have the Z-axis installed on the knee or was that what Matt at PM did by default (or maybe you installed it yourself...)?  I've seen some mills with the Z-axis installed on the quill, rather than the knee.  Actually, I sort of thought that was more typical, so I just shot Matt an email to verify...  I ordered a 3-axis DRO with mine and assumed the Z-axis would be installed on the quill, but realize that perhaps that's a bad assumption.


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## zmotorsports

The Z-axis for the DRO will be on the knee not the quill. For reference the knee is usually adjusted on a knee style mill more so than the quill for measured cuts.  The quill is usually used for depth of cuts on a benchtop mill/drill due to convenience.  Usually the quill is locked against a stop, then the work is brought up to the tool and the depth is set by the knee.  I generally move the knee up to about .010" shy for rough cutting and them move up that last .010" for the final all with the knee with the quill against the stop and locked.  Maybe others do it differently and hopefully they will chime in.  I haven't been "formally" trained, just that is how I do it on our BP clone at work.

I am still going to fabricate a fixture to hold a linear digital scale for my quill much like I had on my tailstock of my previous lathe and almost exactly like what comes on the PM-932 benchtop model.

Just out of curiosity, when did you order your 935 from Matt?

Mike.


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## zmotorsports

TimMTP said:


> Some work and a mod.
> 
> I haven't updated this in a while so here's a pic of some small work along with a mod I made. I have a 3 axis DRO but didn't have anything to measure quill movement. My gunsmithing instructor had this setup so I decided to duplicate it the best I could. Works well.



Nice Tim.:thumbsup2:  Wow the more I look at this machine the more excited I am getting to get mine delivered, in the shop and running.  The fit, finish and overall quality look very nice on that machine.

Thanks again for posting up the pictures.

Mike.


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## jaychris

zmotorsports said:


> The Z-axis for the DRO will be on the knee not the quill. For reference the knee is usually adjusted on a knee style mill more so than the quill for measured cuts.  The quill is usually used for depth of cuts on a benchtop mill/drill due to convenience.  Usually the quill is locked against a stop, then the work is brought up to the tool and the depth is set by the knee.  I generally move the knee up to about .010" shy for rough cutting and them move up that last .010" for the final all with the knee with the quill against the stop and locked.  Maybe others do it differently and hopefully they will chime in.  I haven't been "formally" trained, just that is how I do it on our BP clone at work.
> 
> I am still going to fabricate a fixture to hold a linear digital scale for my quill much like I had on my tailstock of my previous lathe and almost exactly like what comes on the PM-932 benchtop model.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, when did you order your 935 from Matt?
> 
> Mike.



Mike, I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure many mills have the Z-axis installed on the quill.  Here's an example:







There's another forum out there where installing on the quill is referenced quite often...   Since I've used this particular mill often, I've gotten used to it.  I find it pretty convenient for what I do.

I ordered my 935 at the beginning of March, so should have another month or so to wait according to his original estimate.


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## zmotorsports

jaychris said:


> Mike, I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure many mills have the Z-axis installed on the quill.  Here's an example:
> 
> 
> 
> There's another forum out there where installing on the quill is referenced quite often...   Since I've used this particular mill often, I've gotten used to it.  I find it pretty convenient for what I do.
> 
> I ordered my 935 at the beginning of March, so should have another month or so to wait according to his original estimate.



Thanks for posting that up.  I have not seen that setup before.  The ones I have seen have all been on the knee.  I just figured I would add a small digital scale to my quill and have the Z-axis DRO installed on the knee which is what I am used to using for depth anyways.  Our mill at work does not have DRO's so I have no experience using DRO's at all.  I wasn't sure I was going to order with my mill but my son has taken some machining classes in college and after not having DRO's on our home lathe/mill and then using DRO's in his college classes, he informed me how nice they are and would be a worth while investment so I ordered my 935 with DRO's.

As for the estimated time, I spoke with Matt on Tuesday and he informed me that my 1340GT lathe will be arriving in the next one to two weeks with the shipment of 935 mills following by another one to two weeks so he estimated the mills should be here by 3rd or 4th week of May.  

I hope to have mine by the first part of June I am getting way excited as I am sure you are as well.  

On Monday night I had a small job come in the shop and wasn't able to repair it right away because I didn't have a lathe as I have already sold mine to make room and help with the budget for the new one.  I had to bring it to work and machine it after hours on Tuesday so I could go home and complete the job.  That flat SUCKED!!!  You don't realize how much you rely on something until you don't have it any longer.  I have used my lathe and mill so much over the past 15+ years it sucks not having the option to walk right up to it and complete a simple job.

Luckily the company I work for is generous enough to let me use their equipment.  Although they made it very clear that we can use the tools/equipment for personal use as long as we prearrange it with management, however, they made it perfectly clear that we are not allowed to use them to make money or for things that are not for us personally.  I spoke with my boss and informed him that I was waiting for my new equipment and he was gracious enough to make an exception as he knew that I have had the equipment for a long time and this is just a small hiccup in timing.

Mike.


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