# Spinning knob handle for knee movement



## wildo (Mar 30, 2017)

The Y handle on my Burke Millrite as well as the spindle handle have these really nice wheels in which the knob on the wheel is free to rotate. This makes for really nice adjustments. The knee crank on the other hand has a fixed knob and I find it exceedingly annoying. So...


Is there any particular reason that a spinny knob crank handle wouldn't work for a knee? It does take a little effort to move the knee up, so perhaps that would be too much torque?
Does a Bridgeport knee crank handle already have a spinny knob?
The method with which these are assembled is not immediately apparent to me. The spinny knob doesn't appear to be pressed into a through hole on the wheel, and there are no set screws or pins on the knob itself. Anyone happen to have pictures of one disassembled? I wouldn't mind making this spinny knee crank handle as a shop project, but I don't quite understand how it's assembled in the first place.
Thanks!

On a side note- the crank handle on the Millrite is a cast (I think) aluminum handle and every time I use it it leaves my hand covered in black... something... oxidation? Even with Gojo cleaner, it's difficult to remove the black stuff from my hand. Almost like an ink.


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## Bob Korves (Mar 30, 2017)

The dials on both my Millrites were and are possible to spin.  There is supposed to be a knurled thumb screw with a brass ball bearing at the tip of the screw, down in the hole.  I have had no problems with the aluminum handles, but I suppose a coat of paint, varnish, or lacquer would fix it.  All three axes on the Millrite use the same dial friction system.


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## wildo (Mar 30, 2017)

Sorry if I was unclear, Bob. Not the dials, but the handles themselves. I don't currently have any good closeup photos of the knee crank handle, but it's distinctly different from all other handles on the machine- which are all steel. The knee handle that came with my Millrite is aluminum. Perhaps it's not original? The Y and Spindle handles are steel wheels with a knob that rotates freely. Really nice stuff. The knee handle is a one-piece aluminum deal with a fixed knob.


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## Dave Paine (Mar 30, 2017)

As Bob said, the issue with the black on the hand is easily solved by coating the handle.  I have observed similar marks on hands and wood from some aluminium surfaces.  Inexpensive tools with surfaces which were not anodized.

If your wife uses hair spray, this is the least expensive lacquer finish.  Lacquer with a lot of solvent.


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## Silverbullet (Mar 30, 2017)

The handle may be replaceable. Not sure if it's pressed in or threaded. Does the handle have a hole showing in back. Handles can be bought that spin in the range of $15.00 to $50.00 or just paint it a couple coats .


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## Bob Korves (Mar 30, 2017)

That sure looks like the original handle, Wildo.


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## wildo (Mar 30, 2017)

Sounds like I should just put some lacquer on it to solve my problem- thanks for the suggestions all! Though I do still think that a handle with a freely rotating knob would be a cool upgrade!


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## 4GSR (Mar 30, 2017)

I remember the handle on the Milrite mill we had many years ago.  It look exactly like the one in your picture. It was a nice mill, wish dad had kept it.  I hated that handle.  Moving forward, I have a 645 Index mill now that had a broken swivel knob on the handle.  Made a nice one out of aluminum.  So far, it doesn't leave your hand "black" as did the Milrite handle did.  Here's a picture of what I did.


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## wildo (Mar 30, 2017)

Now we're talking!! And I'm glad I'm not the only one to get the black hand from that damn handle. I've cleaned it like crazy, and yet... every time.


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## dennys502 (Mar 30, 2017)

I just made a power feed for the knee.
 My handle is plastic and I need to machine some new ones. It has brass bushings so they spin very nice on the handle.


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## Bob Korves (Mar 30, 2017)

wildo said:


> Sounds like I should just put some lacquer on it to solve my problem- thanks for the suggestions all! Though I do still think that a handle with a freely rotating knob would be a cool upgrade!


Here is the cool upgrade...




Get a 5/8" eight point socket, make a 1/2' hex to 1/2" square adapter (or buy a cheap one from HF), buy a cheap HF 1/2" drill (under $25), and install a 8mm eye bolt in the drill to park the drill with.  There are side handle threaded holes on both sides of the drill.  I no longer crank the knee more than an inch, often much less than that, aside from Z axis cutting.  Works well.


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## Frank Ford (Mar 30, 2017)

wildo said:


> Is there any particular reason that a spinny knob crank handle wouldn't work for a knee? It does take a little effort to move the knee up, so perhaps that would be too much torque?




No reason at all.  First thing I did when I got my new Bridgeport clone was to fit a regular spinny knob handwheel - it's way faster to crank, and even for a little old wimp like me, not particularly difficult to turn - I just use both hands if I want to move upward a long ways:


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## talvare (Mar 30, 2017)

Those handles are readily available from several internet suppliers like MSC, McMaster-Carr, etc. Here's one example: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/06905277

Of course, this isn't helpful if you're wanting to make your own 

Ted


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## wildo (Mar 31, 2017)

talvare said:


> Those handles are readily available from several internet suppliers like MSC, McMaster-Carr, etc. Here's one example: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/06905277
> 
> Of course, this isn't helpful if you're wanting to make your own
> 
> Ted


For $15- could be worth just buying one. Looks like it has a threaded end though? How do you install it if the knob itself spins?


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## ddickey (Mar 31, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> Here is the cool upgrade...
> View attachment 230124
> View attachment 230125
> View attachment 230126
> ...


Plan on making one of these tomorrow.


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## talvare (Mar 31, 2017)

That example is a revolving knob, although the photo doesn't look like it. Here's a different one from the same supplier (they have many different sizes listed) that has a little better photo.

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/77414431

You can see in the photo that there are flats for a wrench  to tighten it into the rim of your handwheel. If yours is not threaded, it may have a plain shank that is pressed into the rim of the handwheel. If the shank of the knob on yours is pressed in, you may have to drill the hole in the rim to a proper size and tap it for the threads on the new knob. Like I said, there are MANY different sizes and thread combinations for these knobs. Browse through the list of available sizes and see what will work for you.

Ted


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## wildo (Mar 31, 2017)

Ah, thanks Ted. That makes way more sense. Speaking of them being pressed into handwheels, are they often pressed into a blind hole? If so- then would one use something like jacobs chuck wedges to get the parts apart?


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## Silverbullet (Apr 1, 2017)

On eBay I'm sure it's supra machine that has them for about $15.00 delivered. Even cheaper if you buy several . I plan on ordering some  But not till I'm done with the pain crap keeping me in bed. Bulging discs really hurt.


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## 4GSR (Apr 1, 2017)

wildo said:


> Ah, thanks Ted. That makes way more sense. Speaking of them being pressed into handwheels, are they often pressed into a blind hole? If so- then would one use something like jacobs chuck wedges to get the parts apart?


Most of the time they are broken off.  So the wedges don't really help any.  What I generally do, but not always, is go on the back side of the hole and drill a smaller hole to access the dutchman, so that way if you miss it a little you haven't done any damage to the old hole.  Then take a punch and drive out the old handle or dutchman.  Then you have a fresh hole to drive in a new handle.  Ken


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## scoopydo (Apr 1, 2017)

The knee crank that came with my Millrite had been broken at one time. The end was either just welded back on or a new one made? I have no idea if it ever turned or not but it does leave your hands BLACK!
Silverbullet I understand about the back! 3 back surgeries and a double fusion later they decided I needed a neurostimulator for the permanent sciatic damage! It all did do some good but like today I spent the morning moving heavy stuff around so this afternoon I'm in my chair. Don't let it get you down! The only thing you can do is continue to live your life.
George


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## pineyfolks (Apr 1, 2017)

The handle on my Bridgeport was to long and felt uncomfortable making such big circles. I made a shorter one and used 3/4 drill rod for the handle. It's still easy to crank and if I really need it I can put the original back on.


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## NCjeeper (Apr 4, 2017)

Frank Ford said:


> No reason at all.  First thing I did when I got my new Bridgeport clone was to fit a regular spinny knob handwheel - it's way faster to crank, and even for a little old wimp like me, not particularly difficult to turn - I just use both hands if I want to move upward a long ways:


What diameter handwheel did you go with?


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## Frank Ford (Apr 4, 2017)

It's 8-inch diameter, from good ol' McMaster  Here's  my little article on the project:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Tooling/MillHandwheel/handwheel.html


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## wildo (Apr 4, 2017)

I like the idea of a handwheel quite a bit, though for the Burke Millrite, the Y axis already has a 7" diameter hand wheel and a 6" wheel is about the largest that would fit the knee without interfering with the Y.


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## Silverbullet (Apr 4, 2017)

I think the idea of the big crank on the Bridgeport mills is for the maximum load on the table , the amount of leverage to elevate the weight for the machine. 
No reason to not use your 8" or 10" dia. Hand wheel. But if your load goes beyond ease of movement I'd keep the lever with the mill. Just my thoughts on these.


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## Bob Korves (Apr 5, 2017)

6" is not big enough for the Millrite knee.  The standard factory Millrite crank has a 7" throw, that is the equivalent of a 14" hand wheel.  The factory crank is just adequate for a bottom to top lift, even without a big load on the table.  There is no rule limiting you to just one system.  Factory crank for big loads, hand wheel for no load and short lifts, and my drill powered electric system for quick and easy long lifts.


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## NCjeeper (Apr 5, 2017)

Frank Ford said:


> It's 8-inch diameter, from good ol' McMaster  Here's  my little article on the project:
> 
> http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Tooling/MillHandwheel/handwheel.html


I checked McMaster and they have like a billion handwheels. Do you remember the stock number on yours?


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## Silverbullet (Apr 5, 2017)

Hey Bob , get an old thirties truck steering wheel and a suicide knob. There's your crank.lol


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## Frank Ford (Apr 5, 2017)

NCjeeper said:


> I checked McMaster and they have like a billion handwheels. Do you remember the stock number on yours?



I actually have two mills, both with similar handwheels.  The Grizzly wood mill has McMaster #6026K135, which is unplated polished iron.  The Bridgeport clone got a similar chrome plated wheel - I don't see it in the current listings, so it may have come from another source.  They are both just fine.


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## 4GSR (Apr 5, 2017)

Silverbullet said:


> Hey Bob , get an old thirties truck steering wheel and a suicide knob. There's your crank.lol


Like this?

Second picture is one of the last jobs I did on that mill before it was sold.


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## kd4gij (Apr 5, 2017)

Who enjoys  cranking the knee up and down?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Feed-...474773?hash=item1eb3dab915:g:0xQAAOSwCEdYUBzo


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## Bob Korves (Apr 6, 2017)

kd4gij said:


> Who enjoys  cranking the knee up and down?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Feed-...474773?hash=item1eb3dab915:g:0xQAAOSwCEdYUBzo


His Millrite has a 5/8" square shaft for the handle...  It can be done, and I plan to do it and have the drive itself, but the job is not trivial.


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## jdedmon91 (Aug 20, 2018)

Or you can make something like this 








This allows you to use a cordless drill. In your case it may be easier to make because of the square handle 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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