# Looking for a better mag base



## DavidR8 (May 25, 2020)

I have a small assortment of import mag bases.
One like this:


A large and a small version of this:



I have dial indicators and dial test indicators, plus a Starrett 196 back plunger set.
I use the dial indicators with the first base which is honestly an exercise in frustration. The DTIs work fine on the second style.
Is there a base that wil allow me to use either a dial indicator and a DTI?


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## mikey (May 25, 2020)

I would get this one for those times when a really solid stand is necessary, like when checking run out on your machines. It adjusts with one knob and has a fine adjust at the base. It will hold a 3/8" dial indicator stem and the dovetail of a dti. You will have to make an adapter to fit the stem of your Starrett 196, though. 

This is easily one of the best deals in a good Noga stand that you'll find. The whole thing costs just about what the fine adjust base costs.


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## mickri (May 25, 2020)

Exactly what is causing you to be frustrated?  Once we know that solutions can be offered.


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## darkzero (May 25, 2020)

Ok, I think I understand what you are asking. First style can hold a lug back dial indicator but has no dovetail mount for holding DTIs. But DTIs usually come with a stem that mounts to the dovetails on the indicator. If yours did not they can be purchased separately.

The second style usually can hold dovetails directly or has a hole for a 3/8" and/or 8mm stem, not sure about asian import ones. AGD indicators usually have a 3/8" stem but it's awkward to hold a dial indicator like that.

Most people make an adapter to attach to the lug back on a DI to mount in the 3/8" hole. Just this past Sat I made one so I can show you. Well sort of (not made from scratch), I've had this Starrett attachment sitting in a drawer for yrs, never knew what it was for or where I got it. But it had a 1/4" stem. So I made a sleeve for it to step up to 3/8", now it could work with a lug back DI with my Noga.

So just make an adapter to attach to the lug back on the DI so you can use it with the articulating one. And if you like using the articulating one, I think you need a Noga like many of us have. 








However most of my DIs are Mitutoyo & they have dovetails on them. I have always held them by the dovetails & use flat backs on them. Well after making that adapter I didn't like it cause I am so used to holding by the dovetail so I went back to my old method. And this wasn't even on Time Wastin' Thursday.   EDIT: I've since gone back to using it & like it.


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## DavidR8 (May 25, 2020)

@mickri My general issue is that adjusting the top style into place is frustrating because as soon as the adjusting knob on the vertical post loosened, the whole thing goes out of whack. Admittedly the base I have is crap quality so that could be a lot of the issue.

Thanks @mikey, I had thought that style had fallen from favour though I see that it's fairly different. 

Thanks @darkzero That's helpful, I do admit that the back lug mount to be the most annoying to use because of the difficulty of trying to adjust the knurled nut.


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## francist (May 25, 2020)

I know the feeling with those goofy spring-type arm assemblies — they are anything but sturdy and frustrating to set up. The base itself is usually okay though, so I keep mine as a dedicated “stubby” that I use at the lathe for carriage travel. That’s all it does, nothing else.




I also have one (okay, maybe several) of the cheapie single-point arm units that work kinda sorta. One I have set up with a small 1” diameter indicator for close work on the machines. Great for something like setting a parting tool where a larger setup might get in the way.

For absolute rigidity though I am with Mikey and have a solid-arm Noga with fine adjust at the bottom (FAB). The bars are a good 1/2” in diameter, silky smooth, and when you lock the knob they are locked, solidly. I can’t remember the part number for it but it has a nice reach and decent power in the magnet. The head will take a normal stud as well as a dovetail mount.




And then I also do goofy things like make my own mag backs for indicators to fit different applications. My preference is not so much to have a multi-purpose stand but rather several dedicated stands that remain set to do one or two different setups. The price of a decent indicator isn’t huge, and while I do have some nice ones my daily drivers are the $30 imports from Lee Valley of which I have an embarrassingly large array.




-frank


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## DavidR8 (May 25, 2020)

Thank you for the close-up shots @francist, they are tremendously helpful to me!


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## ErichKeane (May 25, 2020)

I struggled with cheap (and starrett) bases forever, the Noga bases are the only ones I'd use again for indicator holding.  They are so much easier to adjust they save me a huge amount of frustration every time.  They are expensive, yes, but worth it all day.


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## tweinke (May 25, 2020)

For me the fine adjust on the inexpensive holders seems to be the issue. Doesn't appear to hold one point very well due to play.


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## ttabbal (May 25, 2020)

Noga FAB is the shiz. I doubted they were that much better than the cheap imports. I was very wrong. The cheap ones are good enough for chip shields. For measuring, it is all about the Noga.


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## mickri (May 25, 2020)

I was looking at Shars at their magnetic bases the other day and noticed that they had all kinds of different bars and attachments on page 277 in their catalog.  https://www.shars.com/products/measuring/magnetic-base-stands  Maybe all you need is a different bar and/or attachment


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## Liljoebrshooter (May 25, 2020)

I have 3 of the Nogas with the top adjustment.  I want to try one with a bottom adjustment.  I use the middle size one the most.
I can highly recommend you try one.
Watch a couple of aboms videos and watch him mount the indicator on his lathe and see how convenient it is.
Joe


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## darkzero (May 25, 2020)

I've had a bunch of different Nogas, so many it became ridiculous. Having used them for a while I came to not like the FATs, I prefer the FABs much more. I sold all the FATs and only kept one but it's not on a mag base, it's mounted to an Indicol style clamp. Not sure why I decided to keep that one though as I pretty much never use it. I think I have only 7 Nogas now.


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## DavidR8 (May 25, 2020)

Looks like KBC has a better price on the FAB Noga (look at me picking up the lingo!) Just need to add another $300 to my order to get free shipping...


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## darkzero (May 25, 2020)

I think you guys have Travers in Canada too? A few of mine came from Travers when they had em in their monthly flyers. Was cheaper than anywhere else at the time & I have a local Travers so I was able to pick them up in store & save on shipping. That was a while ago though, not sure if they still have good prices on them.


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## mikey (May 25, 2020)

David, there are times when you will want an articulating arm type stand but just know that while they are really convenient, they are not all that rigid. They work fine if you don't extend the arms a lot but get a good indicator way out there and it will tend to move. I think you really need two types, one articulating and one 2-post like the one I linked to. 

The advantage to the 2-arm post is rigidity. As long as you don't overextend the arms it is about as rigid a set up as you can get. When checking spindle run out or evaluating the concentricity of a chuck or tool, no other stand I know of will work better. I have 6 Noga stands in various styles and when I have to check my spindle, the 2-arm post comes out. If I could only have one stand, it would be the Noga PH2040.


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## darkzero (May 25, 2020)

I agree with Mike after getting the PH that Mike recommened a while back. It really is more rigid & because of the price I couldn't pass it up. Honestly I don't use it that much but it will be kept for the times I do. I don't have a need to break out my tenths indicators that much & is when I use the PH. 98% of the time I use the the articulating ones cause they are so much easier & quicker to use and good enough for me. Depends on what you work on & the tolerances you work with. While it is nice to measure spindle runout & such as accurate as you can it's not often for me. Even when I dial in my Set-Tru chucks I don't use a tenths indicator & I use the articulating type.


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## mikey (May 25, 2020)

darkzero said:


> I agree with Mike after getting the PH that Mike recommened a while back. It really is more rigid & because of the price I couldn't pass it up. Honestly I don't use it that much but it will be kept for the times I do. I don't have a need to break out my tenths indicators that much & is when I use the PH. 98% of the time I use the the articulating ones cause they are so much easier & quicker to use and good enough for me. Depends on what you work on & the tolerances you work with. While it is nice to measure spindle runout & such as accurate as you can it's not often for me. Even when I dial in my Set-Tru chucks I don't use a tenths indicator & I use the articulating type.



I don't use the PH2040 that much but when I need it, I need it. Even with all the stands I have, you still beat me easily, Will!

Funny but I did use the PH2040 and a tenths indicator to dial in my PB 6 jaw, just to see how close I could get it to run on a precision 1/2" dowel pin and got it down to 0.00015" TIR - close enough! It won't be as accurate when I chuck anything else but it was fun to see that the PB can be dialed in if you spend the time.


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## darkzero (May 25, 2020)

I forgot to say, you need to get both!   (It's been a while since I've got the chance to try & help someone spend their money!)

But I know Nogas are expensive, even used, so if budget is an issue, decide what you will find more useful to get first...... then get the other one later. 

As someone above mentioned, if (when) you do get an articulating arm Noga, you'll be amazed how much better it is compared to the knock off Chinese import ones. (I have no idea who actually invented it if not Noga)


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## darkzero (May 25, 2020)

mikey said:


> I don't use the PH2040 that much but when I need it, I need it. Even with all the stands I have, you still beat me easily, Will!
> 
> Funny but I did use the PH2040 and a tenths indicator to dial in my PB 6 jaw, just to see how close I could get it to run on a precision 1/2" dowel pin and got it down to 0.00015" TIR - close enough! It won't be as accurate when I chuck anything else but it was fun to see that the PB can be dialed in if you spend the time.



I used to use a tenth indicator when dialing in my chucks or a part with the 4-jaw. I was just fooling myself & found myself wasting much more time chasing the needle. I thought to myself (for me) what's the point, scroll chuck won't hold that accuracy at different diameters anyway & no way do I need to try & work in those tolerances anyway. 

But as you said, fun to see & good practice. Remember that time I mistakenly posted about my TMX collets reading practically zero? Well it was because of the articulating arm using a tenth DI that was throwing off the reading. Switched to the PH & problem solved.


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## darkzero (May 25, 2020)

Oh speaking of indicator holders. Here's one that popped up on my feed last night that some one is making & looks like they will be selling. 2 post holder but the indicator can rotate & swivel at the indicator and locked with a screw through the post. Never seen anything like that before.


__
		http://instagr.am/p/CAl_21zBvq6/


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## DavidR8 (May 25, 2020)

That’s is very cool! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Winegrower (May 25, 2020)

I have most all of the stuff mentioned here including the snake type holder, and share the frustration.   So I built a two headed holder that fits the QCTP, and can measure axial and radial on the lathe, and an indicol holder that fits on the mill quill.   Those all work well and solve maybe 80% of my indicator needs.

The other 20%, I just suffer.


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## Aukai (May 26, 2020)

The PH2040, or the slightly bigger and stronger magnet PH4016? I bought 2 Mighty Mags yesterday, and a FAB this morning because the FATs irritate me with a DTI. I need to decide which one I'm gonna get.


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## DavidR8 (May 26, 2020)

I think I'm going to go with the PH2040. I don't think I need a bigger model. Definitely looking forward to a FAB!


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## Aukai (May 26, 2020)

I edited my post, I'm looking at which one to get for me also.


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## darkzero (May 26, 2020)

PH4016 has the magnet size of the MGs. I have a MG10533 that I got used on another forum. That's too big for me, picked it up cause the price was good. I pretty much only use it to hold a camera, lol. Arms are probably larger on the PH4016 I assume. I went with the PH2040 which has the same size magnet as the DGs which is my favorite size.


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## mmcmdl (May 26, 2020)

darkzero said:


> I forgot to say, you need to get both!  (It's been a while since I've got the chance to try & help someone spend their money!)



LOL , Will is BACK !  And Dave , you'll need spares for those two ( two are never enough )


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## Aukai (May 26, 2020)

I was looking at the PH3100 also, but it seems Ajax is the only source, which I question. The other sources do not have, or will not ship. It would seem with my previous transactions that they are a store front only, and order to ship. Just my feeling.


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## Tozguy (May 26, 2020)

The snake style holders look like they might be a good option. Have any of you bought one?


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## ThinWoodsman (May 26, 2020)

Not sure why people have such problems with the fine-adjust-at-top style. Just keep it locked down tight if you don't use it, and it won't bother you. One in awhile, it's pretty handy for ensuring the (plunger) indicator tip is properly perpendicular to the work. Not even sure when fine-adjust-at-base would even be used, unless you are zeroing the needle by position instead of just rotating the dial.

Anyways, like everyone else said: get a Noga, perhaps more than one. They make a huge difference. It's the arms that make the difference, not the actual base, but if you look for the arms as parts they're basically the cost of an entire unit.


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## ttabbal (May 26, 2020)

I prefer not to spin the dial on DTIs. The only ones I have are tenths reading and it's really difficult to get right that way. With the base adjust, I just tweak that a little and I'm right on.


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## DavidR8 (May 26, 2020)

ttabbal said:


> I prefer not to spin the dial on DTIs. The only ones I have are tenths reading and it's really difficult to get right that way. With the base adjust, I just tweak that a little and I'm right on.


This is the issue I have with my DTIs and the top adjust. With my tenths DTIs I cannot seem to do the adjust without spinning the dial. Maybe it's a practice thing for me.

Last night I disassemble my large single knob base and polished up the pivots and the filed the ends of the tension rods smooth. Made a difference to the action but the head is still pretty clunky.


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## MrWhoopee (May 26, 2020)

Tozguy said:


> The snake style holders look like they might be a good option. Have any of you bought one?



The proper name is "donkey dick". I have one of the Flex-bar brand, which I acquired while working in bio research. It has a rotating knob FAB. It's never been rigid enough, even after tightening the cable. The magnet is not strong enough and the push-button release is too stiff. Never used a Starrett.


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## MrWhoopee (May 26, 2020)

I recently scabbed this one together using a Mighty-Mag base I got with the Dead Man's tools in '80. No fine-adjust, but a powerful magnet and surprisingly rigid.


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## ThinWoodsman (May 26, 2020)

ttabbal said:


> I prefer not to spin the dial on DTIs. The only ones I have are tenths reading and it's really difficult to get right that way.



That's true, DTIs are a bit finicky. I've been mostly using plunger-style indicators - larger face, less trouble to adjust, not as much trouble with cosine error, and you can change the tip to match what you are doing. The DTIs have all been in a drawer gathering dust since I acquired tenths plunger-style indicators.


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## Tozguy (May 26, 2020)

MrWhoopee said:


> The proper name is "donkey dick". I have one of the Flex-bar brand, which I acquired while working in bio research. It has a rotating knob FAB. It's never been rigid enough, even after tightening the cable. The magnet is not strong enough and the push-button release is too stiff. Never used a Starrett.


Yikes, maybe if we called it by another name it would work better


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## Larry$ (May 26, 2020)

I have a Noga that works very well. The base adjustment is far better than a top adjuster, at least for me.  I use it for both the 3/8" hold and the dovetail DTIs.  Finally got a nice Mitutoyo DTI, no more needle jumping around. 
Now I need to get a better holder for the quill on the mill. Present one is a cheap import, not worth its cheap price.


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## darkzero (May 26, 2020)

Larry$ said:


> Now I need to get a better holder for the quill on the mill. Present one is a cheap import, not worth its cheap price.



Nogas cover that for me too. The Indicol style clamp one I rarely use but would be the most versatile.


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## DavidR8 (May 26, 2020)

Mill-wise I use the Starrett 196 rigged up so that it fits in the ER-32 collet. Is there an advantage to having it mount on the quill?


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## darkzero (May 26, 2020)

Don't have to remove the tool that's mounted in the spindle. Again I rarely use mine mostly because of another reason. I'm just used to mounting in a collet even though it takes more time.


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## GunsOfNavarone (May 26, 2020)

Look here, the fine speed adjustment really helps with some of the frustration. Great price for a great product IMO.
Aventor line


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## 7milesup (May 26, 2020)

darkzero said:


> Don't have to remove the tool that's mounted in the spindle. Again I rarely use mine mostly because of another reason. I'm just used to mounting in a collet even though it takes more time.
> 
> View attachment 325515



What are those yellow thingy dingies in your mill slotties?


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## darkzero (May 26, 2020)

7milesup said:


> What are those yellow thingy dingies in your mill slotties?



Aluminum t-slot covers. I hate cleaning t-slots.


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## ErichKeane (May 26, 2020)

darkzero said:


> Aluminum t-slot covers. I hate cleaning t-slots.


Ooh, I desparately need those!  Where can you get them?


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## 7milesup (May 26, 2020)

You guys are gonna make me go broke.  Just bought that Noga listed earlier from Mikey.  "oooohhh I likey.  Click Buy Now.  Done".


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## darkzero (May 27, 2020)

ErichKeane said:


> Ooh, I desparately need those!  Where can you get them?



I've been meaning to make a post about them as I get asked about them every so often. But for now....









						Glass Platen for Jet 2x42 Belt Sander (and Mobile Stand)
					

The stock platen for my Jet 2x42 sucks. I can easily flex it just pushing it with one finger. Also out the box it wouldn't even line up with the belt. It wasn't square with belt anyway & I would have needed to slot the slot. :)     I wanted to make a new beefier & longer platen, decided to use...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




In that link is another link to when I first installed them. Made by Vertex, I got them on ebay from supramachinetool (Acer). Price has gone up on them unfortunately. I did purchase a spare set from Grizzly a while back. The ones from Grizzly aren't labeled Vertex & are in their own packaging with their own p/n. But they look identical to the original Vertex ones I have & were cheaper, not sure if Grizzly carries all the sizes though. There may be others that make em too.


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## Z2V (May 27, 2020)

7milesup said:


> You guys are gonna make me go broke.  Just bought that Noga listed earlier from Mikey.  "oooohhh I likey.  Click Buy Now.  Done".


Yeah, I bought two of them several months back when Mikey mentioned them. I haven’t used the other holders i have since.


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## DavidR8 (May 27, 2020)

7milesup said:


> You guys are gonna make me go broke.  Just bought that Noga listed earlier from Mikey.  "oooohhh I likey.  Click Buy Now.  Done".


I hear you! I've been shovelling money out the door like I'm stoking the firebox of a steam locomotive!!!
(there should be a warning at the door... mind you there were many mentions of "oohh we can help you spend your money" from @mikey @mmcmdl @darkzero @Aukai and a raft of others, hoodlums, all of em! )


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## ttabbal (May 27, 2020)

Don't pretend you weren't warned! There be dragons here, but they are somewhat helpful at helping you not waste your money. Burn through it faster than you thought possible, yes...


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## darkzero (May 27, 2020)

Hey, leave me out of this! I've been away for the past month or so.... so I have no idea what you guys are talking about!  

Damn dragons!


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## Buffalo21 (May 27, 2020)

darkzero said:


> Aluminum t-slot covers. I hate cleaning t-slots.



Yes, they help out a lot

a lot of people sell them, mine are from Grizzly, I’ve had mine for years, new number is T1166.


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## 7milesup (May 27, 2020)

Dangit.  Now I have to get some of those. 

STOPPPPPPPPPP Already.  Nothin' but instigators.


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## ErichKeane (May 27, 2020)

Are they sold by the width of the T slot?  I see a lot of 5/8, but I believe I have 9/16 slots on my millrite (I'll have to check).  I know I had to mill down my 5/8 T nuts to work.


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## 7milesup (May 27, 2020)

ErichKeane said:


> Are they sold by the width of the T slot?  I see a lot of 5/8, but I believe I have 9/16 slots on my millrite (I'll have to check).  I know I had to mill down my 5/8 T nuts to work.



I am thinking yours are 14mm slots.  9/16=.5625.  25.1mm/inch.  .5625x24.1=14.11mm


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## Buffalo21 (May 27, 2020)

Grizzly

#T1165 - 14 mm/9/16”
#T1166 - 16 mm/5/8”
#T1167 - 18 mm/.7087 (11/16”+)


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## ErichKeane (May 27, 2020)

7milesup said:


> I am thinking yours are 14mm slots.  9/16=.5625.  25.1mm/inch.  .5625x24.1=14.11mm



I doubt it, my mill predates metric in the United States 



Buffalo21 said:


> Grizzly
> 
> #T1165 - 14 mm/9/16”
> #T1166 - 16 mm/5/8”
> #T1167 - 18 mm/.7087 (11/16”+)



Awesome, thanks!  The part numbers really help!  To be particularly greedy: I'm guessing noone carries 5/16" ones that stay below the surface?  I'm running a 2 part vise on my shaper, and noticed that the T slots just FILL with chips!

EDIT: I notice Grizzly actually has 10 and 12 mm as well!  Sadly, no 8mm, so my shaper is just going to have to deal.


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## Tozguy (May 27, 2020)

7milesup said:


> Dangit.  Now I have to get some of those.
> 
> STOPPPPPPPPPP Already.  Nothin' but instigators.



No worries, we can supply a list of soup kitchens in your area.


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## Bob Korves (May 27, 2020)

Here is a really nice shop made indicator holder along with a tutorial of the thoughts going into the design and full instructions on how to make it:


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## mikey (May 27, 2020)

7milesup said:


> You guys are gonna make me go broke.  Just bought that Noga listed earlier from Mikey.  "oooohhh I likey.  Click Buy Now.  Done".





DavidR8 said:


> I hear you! I've been shovelling money out the door like I'm stoking the firebox of a steam locomotive!!!
> (there should be a warning at the door... mind you there were many mentions of "oohh we can help you spend your money" from @mikey @mmcmdl @darkzero @Aukai and a raft of others, hoodlums, all of em! )



Wait until you get your hands on a PH2040 and see how fast and easy it is to use and how rigid it is. Then you'll see why this stand has become my go-to stand. Yup, I admit that I enjoy spending your money but I try hard not to waste it.


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## Aukai (May 27, 2020)

I'm just standing here minding my own business, when a paddy wagon full of hoodlums drive by, and scoop me up. I'm innocent I tell ya, innocent.

Look at me Ma, I'm at the top of the world.....


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