# Countershaft spindle bushings - part L3-109 - questions.



## Joshua (Apr 8, 2014)

The bearings in the countershaft of my 10107403 lathe are pretty shot.  Additionally, I expected them to have a small hole in them, allowing for the oil added to the two oil cups on the casting that holds the countershaft spindle to drain down and lubricate the shaft itself.  The parts list shows part number L3-109.

Sears sells these bushings for $23/ea. 

Here are my questions...
1.  Should these bushings have weep holes for oil from the oils cups to pass through?

2.  Are there other sources/options for these bushings?

3.  Can I turn them out of something and replace them?  If so what should the dimensions be and should I put a small hole for oil in them?


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## DamicoTileCo (Apr 8, 2014)

I have a cup like that too which needs to be drilled out.
The cups need to be free to flow oil, so if one is clogged or the bushing could have spun, it will need to be cleared.
If the bushing spun then it will have to be fixed either by locktite or replacement.


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## CluelessNewB (Apr 8, 2014)

I don't have an Atlas/Craftsman but my Dad did at one time.  If I remember correctly they are just standard Oilite bronze sleeve bearings.  Depending on size they run about $3 each at McMaster Carr and other suppliers.   On caution is that you may need to ream them out to size after pressing the new ones in place, that would be true even with the ones from Sears.  Here is a link to the McMaster Carr page:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-sleeve-bearings/=rg4j16


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## DamicoTileCo (Apr 8, 2014)

As far as reaming goes, if they need it you can just go to a auto parts store and get a cylinder hone for a few bucks and hone it out.
Using a course stone shouldn't clog the oilite bushings.


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## iron man (Apr 8, 2014)

The bushings are bronze they are oil lite bushings you can buy them or go to a hardware store and find regular bronze warm it up and drop it in oil as it expands the oil gets into the bushing. As for the holes you dont need to have them the oil setting in the cup will leach through the bushing as the bushing warms up. If you want holes in the bushings you are not hurting anything I would make them very small however.


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## 12bolts (Apr 8, 2014)

Joshua,
This is a fix I made on my layshaft. http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php?t=10768

Cheers Phil


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## Joshua (Apr 9, 2014)

Thanks all!  Ordered from McMaster Carr.  Although the heat/oil treatment sounds interesting!  Got the old ones out and just waiting for the new...


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## wa5cab (Apr 9, 2014)

Joshua,

I'm surprised no one already mentioned this but Clausing (Atlas bought Clausing around 1950 and for reasons having to do with their major market changed the company name to Clausing in the early 1960's) still sells a lot of parts for the Atlas lathes.  Including the countershaft bushings.  A little over a year ago, L3-109 cost $7.80 each.  And I didn't have to wonder whether I had correctly compensated for wear in specifying the ID from another source.  800-323-0972.  Ask for "old parts" or "old Atlas parts".

To clarify something, the bushings are made of sintered bronze.  Which is porous.  The process was developed decades ago by a company named Oilite (or maybe they changed their name later) and over the years, sintered bronze bushings have come to be called oilite bushings regardless of who made them.  If you take a solid brass or bronze bushing and heat it and drop it in oil, you'll just get the same thing you'd get if the bushing was aluminum or steel - sizzle, spatter and smoke.  

Robert D.


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## iron man (Apr 9, 2014)

wa5cab said:


> Joshua,
> 
> I'm surprised no one already mentioned this but Clausing (Atlas bought Clausing around 1950 and for reasons having to do with their major market changed the company name to Clausing in the early 1960's) still sells a lot of parts for the Atlas lathes. Including the countershaft bushings. A little over a year ago, L3-109 cost $7.80 each. And I didn't have to wonder whether I had correctly compensated for wear in specifying the ID from another source. 800-323-0972. Ask for "old parts" or "old Atlas parts".
> 
> ...





That all sounds good but I respectfully disagree I never told him to use brass,,, powdered cast bronze and there so called sintered bronze is the samething powdered cast bronze that they sell in any hardware store is porous and will hold oil even if it did not which it will it will work fine. As far as heating them up and droppping them in oil it works fine and originally that is how they where made they just did not grow on trees the process was originally developed by Chrysler corp for water pump bearings in the 20's high tech.... hardly. I made them for 25 yrs when we made busings either that or we would use a vacuum chamber and 30 weight oil. Either way it is how it is done it was no engineering miricle that only Atlas or Clausing come up,, with most of there prices are triple what they should be there just raping the public because they can all of the busings are of common size Clausing just buys them off the shelf and repacks them. And BTW the ones I made for mine 25 yrs ago are still there and doing fine on my recent rebuild and mod. they nor the shafts needed to be replaced I think that is proof enough.. Ray


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## VSAncona (Apr 9, 2014)

Personally, I'm really glad that Clausing/Atlas still carries parts for my 68-year-old lathe. I doubt it's a big money maker for them, especially when you factor in how much time they probably spend looking up old parts for customers like us. Most of the time, I find their prices to be reasonable and if not, I don't buy it. But it's still nice to have an option other than ebay.


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## wa5cab (Apr 9, 2014)

The point that I was trying to make was that not all bronze bushings sold by any hardware are going to be sintered bronze.  I added the word "brass" because most people can't tell the difference and many bushings are actually made of brass, although relatively few of them are sintered.  If you take a solid bronze bushing (many are used in marine applications) and soak it in oil you'll just get an oily bushing until you wipe it off.  

You were, however, correct that Oilite was a Chrysler division or department.  However, the bushings weren't developed soley for water pumps.  Of the six typically found in a last century automobile engine, only one is in the water pump.  And I said nothing about Atlas or Clausing having anything to do with inventing the sintered bronze bushing.  They didn't invent it and didn't invent Zamak.

On another subject, resizing the bore, you have to be careful how you do that.  The worst way to do it is by grinding (or honing).  Grinding will smear the ID surface and close off most of the pores.  According to the bushing manufacturers, the best way is with a VERY sharp single point tool.  They say further that reaming may work but only if the reamer is extremely sharp.  My take is that if you needed two little bushings, you're better off paying a little more for ones that are the right size to begin with.  I have better things to do than spending four hours saving four dollars on two bushings.

Plus as was hinted at just below, the fact of the matter is that we all have a vested interest in keeping Clausing interested enough to keep supplying parts for our old Atlas machines.  The parts that we could buy somewhere else more cheaply and modify to make sorta fit wouldn't cost us much more if we bought them from Clausing.  The ones that can't be bought cheap and modified will eventually shut down every one of our machines or leave us with the only options of paying top dollar on eBay for a used part or buying another machine and hoping that that part is still good in it if Clausing finally says the Hell with it and shuts down their old parts department.  I went through the same problems caused by the same shortsighted attitudes in the 1970's and 1980's with Land Rover parts in the US.  The only thing that would have kept me going if the two US independent vendors had shut down was that I sometimes had to go to England on business.  That wouldn't be an option with Atlas parts as they aren't being made anywhere else.  

Robert D.



iron man said:


> That all sounds good but I respectfully disagree I never told him to use brass,,, powdered cast bronze and there so called sintered bronze is the samething powdered cast bronze that they sell in any hardware store is porous and will hold oil even if it did not which it will it will work fine. As far as heating them up and droppping them in oil it works fine and originally that is how they where made they just did not grow on trees the process was originally developed by Chrysler corp for water pump bearings in the 20's high tech.... hardly. I made them for 25 yrs when we made busings either that or we would use a vacuum chamber and 30 weight oil. Either way it is how it is done it was no engineering miricle that only Atlas or Clausing come up,, with most of there prices are triple what they should be there just raping the public because they can all of the busings are of common size Clausing just buys them off the shelf and repacks them. And BTW the ones I made for mine 25 yrs ago are still there and doing fine on my recent rebuild and mod. they nor the shafts needed to be replaced I think that is proof enough.. Ray


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## iron man (Apr 10, 2014)

The point is other material or bushings will work it is a very simple lathe and if you dont question how things are made you will never understand them its just a bushing if you keep oil on it almost any bearing material will work, and really whats the sense in having a lathe if your not going to build something, restore it and just look at it? I am glad I did not have that attitude when I built my first lathe from scratch it would have never got done.  My Dad worked for Chrysler Corp. here is some history.

*Oilite* is a porous bronze or iron alloy commonly impregnated with an oil lubricant and used in bearings. The original Oilite and *Oilite Plus* are bronze alloys, while *Super Oilite* and *Super Oilite 16* are iron-based. Oilite was developed by Chrysler in 1930, originally for use in bearings for water pumps and spring shackles, and without oil as the porous filter element in gasoline filters. Chrysler sold approximately 500 thousand Oilite bearings in 1930 and approximately 2.5 million the next year. The Super Oilite was introduced in 1932. Overall sales of all Oilite material in 1932 was seven million; this rose to 18 million in 1933. Oilite was a profit center for Chrysler during this time. Currently, the Oilite trademark belongs to Beemer Precision.


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## db45acp (Aug 27, 2014)

iron man said:


> The point is other material or bushings will work it is a very simple lathe and if you dont question how things are made you will never understand them its just a bushing if you keep oil on it almost any bearing material will work, and really whats the sense in having a lathe if your not going to build something, restore it and just look at it? I am glad I did not have that attitude when I built my first lathe from scratch it would have never got done.  My Dad worked for Chrysler Corp. here is some history.
> 
> *Oilite* is a porous bronze or iron alloy commonly impregnated with an oil lubricant and used in bearings. The original Oilite and *Oilite Plus* are bronze alloys, while *Super Oilite* and *Super Oilite 16* are iron-based. Oilite was developed by Chrysler in 1930, originally for use in bearings for water pumps and spring shackles, and without oil as the porous filter element in gasoline filters. Chrysler sold approximately 500 thousand Oilite bearings in 1930 and approximately 2.5 million the next year. The Super Oilite was introduced in 1932. Overall sales of all Oilite material in 1932 was seven million; this rose to 18 million in 1933. Oilite was a profit center for Chrysler during this time. Currently, the Oilite trademark belongs to Beemer Precision.




Can you cite a "source" for this information, please?
Website link, book, etc.
Thanks,
-Dan


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## CluelessNewB (Aug 27, 2014)

Not my post but I believe it came from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oilite


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