# What to consider in vise selection



## lSherlockl (Mar 23, 2021)

So I have a decent feel of what I am looking for in milling machine, and still plan to end up with a RF45 style of Benchtop (if they can even be called that) mill

I tried to do some research, and really i have seen quite a lot of inconsistent information. I know there is a lot of how will you be using it and what kind of work and materials you will be using.

I do have a few generic questions that I am seeing or wondering what's the practical rule or advise. A ton of post I have seen people comment you wouldn't need more than a 4" vise while others advocate go for 5 or 6 or you will be wanting. I just want to understand some of the logic is all without hopefully going too deep down the rabbit hole as I know its well one of the more critical and reasonably expensive pieces of kit when starting out.

Is the bigger deal the weight? or the overhang (a lot of the pics I have seen there is quite a bit of overhang off the table) is the goal for the max of Jaw grip to be within the envelope or the table or more than half the vise? Even a lot of the 4 inch vises would overhang a table of 9.5 inch by at least 3-4 inches.

Is there negatives to using say a 6" vise to grip say something that is 3" long? in the middle of the jaws? On the edge of the jaws? Basically is there a reasoning that wider is not better.

rear jaw mount for lack of better term cast into the body vs keyed and bolted on? I know here quality of the devise is huge but curious as to the logic of what makes one better

I know the phrase of buy once cry once, but realistically from a hobbyist perspective is there a sweet spot in terms of "decent" I know obviously china 100 buck wonders are pretty dicey at best but the average hobby machinist do they really benefit from say a EDIT $600 Kurt (IDK what I was on before but still not a cheap vise by any means)

Personally I had been considering some of the Taiwan brands tike Tegara or Teco or some of the Palmgren lines of vises  (really they probably are the same OEM) as a potential "reasonable" choice for a hobbies. Tegara has a shorter 6" CNC vise that seemed like a interesting proposition for a bench  mill where your table is not quite so deep.


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## benmychree (Mar 23, 2021)

Big vises can get pretty heavy; small mill small vise; Kurt type import.


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## T Bredehoft (Mar 23, 2021)

I ordered the cheap ($89.00)  vice when I bought my PM25 several years ago. It hasn't failed me, but it surely hasn't surprised me either. There seems to be a very slight difference in the pitch of the screw and it's mating part. I should have 4 1/2 or 5 inches of travel,  (never needed it, though) with a little  manual umph I can get three. 

That's the only complaint I have, didn't bother PM about it. I'd rather have at least the next step up, but can't rationalize it now. 

So, spend what you are comfortable with, ignore the $800 jewels, you won't need that. 

With your 45, I don't think a 4"  vice is too small, but  it might not be quite big enough. The Overhang you mention is a killer, limits the Y travel by it's amount. Unless your head is on a ram and can move out, avoid that overhang.


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## KevinM (Mar 23, 2021)

I ordered a 6" vise, it is HUGE!  I never used it on my mill, I use it as an anvil.  Here is a picture of the 2 (other is 4") side by side.





The jaws of my 4" Tegara (not the vise pictured) has a max opening of 12 3/4" if I move the jaws to the outside of the vise.


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## KevinM (Mar 23, 2021)

I just bought a Tegara 440V to replace my $100 vice.  The Tegara was lacking a couple for features that my old vise had like the face of the clamping jaw was concave to help holding round parts and the sliding jaw was skewed to help with clamping tapered parts.  I could put two identical parts, one of the left side, one on the right.  After tightening the vice snugly the part on the right could be lifted easily from the jaws.


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## ttabbal (Mar 23, 2021)

There are a few youtube videos reviewing a cheap vise. They don't seem too horrible for the price, honestly. But you can get a 6" Kurt DX6 for about $500 from a few places. And a 6" is probably big for your mill. a 4" might be a better choice. You can clamp smaller parts in them, I put a part in my 6" that was about 0.5". Just put it in the center so the pressure is right on the part. 

I bet you would be happy with a mid range Taiwan import. I would avoid the really cheap low end, personally. I think I'd go for a used good brand first. The vise affects every part you make in it, so IMO it's worth spending a little more on. It's not that you can't make a good part in a bad vise, you certainly can, but it's harder.


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## DavidR8 (Mar 23, 2021)

A six inch vise is going to be huge on that table. Not only for overhang but also they eat up precious Z-axis height.
I have an RF30 size mill with the same depth table and my 4" Glacern vise is the perfect size.


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## lSherlockl (Mar 24, 2021)

Thanks for the inputs.

All fair logics, i know the used market scares me some in the realm of precision equipment namely you really dont know entirely what you are getting i dont know how far out of wack things could potentially be on say a used Kurt (that being said there too 6in seems the common size and most of those are longer yet)

I will say I wish they made a smaller vise in the style of the tegra 660U (like a 5 or a 4") its mounting options have 3 points for hitting the T slots on each side, without flexing to clamping to table and tighter footprint seemed really interesting in concept at least. but yeah at 15" it would give you 5 inch of overhang.


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## DavidR8 (Mar 24, 2021)

Isn't this what you're looking for?





						4" 440V CNC Milling Machine Vise 0.0004"
					

Shars Tool




					www.shars.com


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## Dabbler (Mar 24, 2021)

On my very first mill, I bought a 6" import vise that only opened 5 1/2 inches.  It did okay, wasn't too big.  The table was an 8X34 inch, but I had good Z height.  I never used the rotating base plate for it, which saved me .700 of Z height.

Here's what I leaned:  If you are ever going to do any kind of larger work, get one like a Kurt where you can mount the jaws on the backside of the jaw carriers for wider opening.  My import did not have that feature.  Thus I ended up selling it eventually.

To replace it I bought a Kurt 633 clone from Taiwan.  Very high quality, very square, and smooth operation.  It allowed 6" with regular positions and over 10" with the jaws reversed. 

It is a great vise, and I love it - however for my new mill I bought a real Kurt DX6 crossover, and I _love _it.  there's nothing like using a great tool.  I use both interchangeably, but I like the Kurt a lot more.

If you can afford it, get a Kurt D40 or DX4.  You will love using it.  The import vise I bought for my first mill never gave me problems, but it was nothing like using the better quality ones.


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## lSherlockl (Mar 24, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> Isn't this what you're looking for?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



that's realistically what I probably will end up with

I cant remember the rules on posting links but the tegra 660U "style" was what I was talking about that seemed pretty interesting in how its built and can be used in other orientations and or designed so it can be clamped along the edges if you need unusual positioning, or depending on the normal mount points afford additional Y travel by clamping to table with the back edge flush, though I guess you could do that on any vise in a pinch though I think the castings around the edges are somewhat thinner

In any case I am at least at terms with going with a sort of middle of the road Taiwan made vise or maybe used kurt or the like if I stumble across something decent.

I am still overall a bit curious as to the styles of back "block" of the vise mounts where the block is keyed with a separate key, or the key is milled into the jaw block or entirely cast as the same part of the base. At this point I think I'm certainly going too far down the rabbit hole logically all exist for a reason and its more about the quality of the material and execution that matters.

certainly a lot of good info, and much appreciated.


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## Dabbler (Mar 24, 2021)

I should add that used vises, unless they are completely trashed (you will easily detect a bad one) are a very good value, if available.


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## kb58 (Mar 24, 2021)

ttabbal said:


> ...But you can get a 6" Kurt DX6 for about $500 from a few places...


Yeah I paid about the same - shipped. I don't know whether the OP honestly thinks that a Kurt DX6 is $800, or if it was just dramatic exaggeration.


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## ChrisAttebery (Mar 24, 2021)

I bought a Kurt DX4 in December. Honestly I couldn’t believe how much better it was than my old CDCO 4” vise. No, it wasn’t cheap. Yes, it was money well spent.


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## Dabbler (Mar 24, 2021)

I got my DX6 for under 700$ Canadian, shipped to my local merchant.  The Taiwanese clone of the same vise was 530$ from the same vendor.


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## Weldingrod1 (Mar 24, 2021)

4" works well on my Rockwell. I added outside jaws a bit taller than the inside ones and cut off the cast in coolant trough on the back for more clearance. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Marbles (Mar 24, 2021)

Get one from Little Machine Shop, good price, works, pick the size you want


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## Manual Mac (Mar 24, 2021)

For comparison this is a 5” vise on a 9-1/2x32-1/2” table on my Griz G1007.
I was torn between a 4” & 5” when I purchased.
Bought the 5”, woulda been happy either way.
For a bit over $100. I can’t believe how accurate it is. 
I wanted a Glacern or a Tegara, but for what I do this one is fine.
BTW, this is 4.375 hangover, i use DRO but it does not block the Y scale if it is needed.
Of course YMMV.
Cheers, Harvey


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