# Newbie Here



## dragos28 (May 14, 2016)

Hey guys I'm new to the machining world. I do some welding and simple fabrication. However I've stated making some parts for my off road group but I've been having a hard time as I've been making them by hand with a hand grinder using an aluminum wheels. 
Needless to say they aren't looking too pretty.










I purchased a lms3990 

Even though I've never used a mill, I'm assuming that it will allow me to make these pieces uniformly and consistent. 

Any suggestions for the ultra newbie.


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## dragos28 (May 14, 2016)

I think my question that i'm trying to ask is:
i'd like to make multiple pieces like the ones pictured above.

what is the most efficient process to do so on a manual mill.
what sort of bit/end mill would i use to remove/cut the aluminum?
what's the best process, do i draw out the line on my piece and eyeball where the milling bit cuts?

I'm assuming i will have to rotate the piece to make the different cuts, is there any way i could make this design without having to rotate the piece? 
Accuracy is not a huge factor on this design, but I do have to make them in pairs, which will be a mirrored design so they need to be uniform. 


thanks in advance, i've tried to read all about milling and have been watching hours of yt videos, but 99% of them are about milling on a solid block of aluminum.


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## MSD0 (May 15, 2016)

I would use a vise stop or even make a fixture to locate the parts so that you can do the same operation on each part without changing setups. A quick sketch with dimensions will help a lot.


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## timvercoe (May 15, 2016)

As I understand what your doing, you welding the pieces to make the "Box" and cleaning the welds by removing some material?  Or are you machining to get accurate size?  Holes pre drilled or drilled after welding?  All sides machined for appearance?  A fixture that hold the piece and exposes as many sides as possible and an end mill that is long enough to do the sides and then skim the top would allow you to do it in 2 set ups. As long as the cut is very light.  

Tim


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## dragos28 (May 15, 2016)

Thanks guys, the material is rectangular tube with 1/8" thick walls. I am cutting it in 6mm blocks and from there i have a template that i lay over it and draw the layout onto it. currently I am cutting with a hand grinder so my cuts are all uneven and crooked.
With this project there is no welding involved, just removing material and drilling holes.

i havent received my mill and vice yet... but in my mind i'm thinking of somehow placing the block in the vice with 3mm of it hanging off the side of the vice, i'd have to make a small block to compensate the other side of the vice as not to bind. and mill off the end that is hanging. the rectangle is 1.5"x2.5" so id' either have to lay it flat or standing on its side.

i'm not sure which would give me the best results. 

I do like the of making a vice stop so the milling motion can be repeated, any suggestions on how to make a vice stop?

I dont plan on machining all the sides for appearance, i've purchased an 18lb vibratory tumbler with 2 different media so i'm assuming that will deburr and polish the pieces. then i'll be anodizing them. 

all of this is new so i'll be learning as i go. lol.
lots of new tools and processes that i'll be learning.


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## T Bredehoft (May 15, 2016)

A vice stop can be as easy as a clamp at the top of one of the jaws, toward one end. Or a magnetic indicator holder on the mill table with a rod sticking into the vise. I made one from a scrap, with a set screw, it fits over the top of the back vice jaw, the set screw holds it in place.


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## dragos28 (May 15, 2016)

thanks, that sounds like a first project to make.


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## timvercoe (May 15, 2016)

Now I get it.  I think I would use a slitting saw.  Depending on how square you the cut surfaces you could cut the unwanted portion in 2 cuts.  If you want the cut to be square then you'd have to make each cut.  

Tim


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## dragos28 (May 15, 2016)

do you think my machine has the power to run a slitting saw?
it looks pretty slow... the material i'm cutting is only 1/8" thick.. wouldnt an endmill cut through it much faster?


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## MSD0 (May 15, 2016)

If you cut the pieces a little long, you can clean up the ends on the mill. The vise stop could be something as simple as a block clamped to the table with a bolt sticking out of it, but I'd just buy one of the stops that clamps onto the back jaw of the vise. Figure out where you need to drill on the first part and then do the rest.


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## MSD0 (May 15, 2016)

dragos28 said:


> do you think my machine has the power to run a slitting saw?
> it looks pretty slow... the material i'm cutting is only 1/8" thick.. wouldnt an endmill cut through it much faster?


You should be fine.


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## dragos28 (May 15, 2016)

I'm talking to a machinist on another forum (truck forum)  and he recommended using dial indicators as the poor man's DRO
He uses them on the X&Y axis and i think thats something i'd also like to do so i can make repeated cuts and have some numerical value to go by.


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## MSD0 (May 15, 2016)

Check out the iGaging and the eBay Sino DRO's for a couple of options.


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## dragos28 (May 16, 2016)

that is even nicer


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## Charles Spencer (May 16, 2016)

dragos28 said:


> I'm talking to a machinist on another forum (truck forum)  and he recommended using dial indicators as the poor man's DRO
> He uses them on the X&Y axis and i think thats something i'd also like to do so i can make repeated cuts and have some numerical value to go by.



You can get a couple of inexpensive dial indicators and stands for under $50.  In addition to your mill, you can use them on other machines you may acquire such as a lathe, drill press, etc.  

Also you would find them quite handy for tramming your mill, checking alignment on a lathe, ensuring your work piece is traveling properly, etc.  And you could use them to measure table movement as you stated.

I'm not saying that DROs are not something good to have.  I am saying you'll probably want a couple of dial indicators anyway and they can do to get you started.


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## dragos28 (May 16, 2016)

thanks! I'll make sure to pick up a couple aswell! 

now the hard part... waiting for everything to show up!


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## MSD0 (May 16, 2016)

Here's a link to a DRO install to give you an idea of what's involved: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/dro-pro-magnetic-on-lms-hitorgue-3990.43383/
There's a ton of info on installing the igaging DRO's on mini mills if you search around.


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## dragos28 (May 16, 2016)

While waiting for my parts to arrive I've started to make the anodizing setup.


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## Scruffy (May 16, 2016)

You do better work eith what you have than I can do.  I'd cut my pieces a little long and even them up with the mill
Thanks ron


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## dragos28 (May 16, 2016)

I started to do the top plate with the hand grinder but quickly got frustrated so i brought out my plasma cutter.
It was all free hand as you can tell by the wobbly lines, but i got it done in a few minutes. would have taken half an hour with the hand grinder.


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## dragos28 (May 16, 2016)

wait, are you saying i could have cut that plate out on the mill?
hmm.. never thought about that.
how would i go about putting the piece on the mill and cleaning up the rough edges? 
didnt even cross my mind..


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## dragos28 (May 17, 2016)

does anyone have experience with anodizing aluminum?
I'm reading up on the 720 rule and wasnt sure about the surface area.
since my pieces are open rectangles do i count the outside and inside as surface area? ie, double the surface area since both sides will need to be anodized.

also what thickness should i be looking for? ideally i'd like to go for a mil-spec hard anodize.. type III but i can start off with type II to learn on.

current density... i have no idea... 

thanks guys!


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## mlindholm (May 19, 2016)

dragos28 said:


> now the hard part... waiting for everything to show up!



How's that wait going?  I see you posted "I purchased an LMS 3990" on Friday (in another thread), and being in CA, it should be a fairly short truck journey for you.  I just ordered the same on Tuesday, but being in Iowa, it'll take mine a day or two more to arrive.


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## dragos28 (May 19, 2016)

Should arrive today! But I'm at work all day..


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## dragos28 (May 19, 2016)

It arrived!! I'll unbox it tomorrow


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## MSD0 (May 19, 2016)

Don't forget to post pics


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## dragos28 (May 19, 2016)

She's here!




Started playing with it.

I put oil on it however the y axis still seems a bit rough. Any suggestions?


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## mlindholm (May 19, 2016)

dragos28 said:


> She's here!
> 
> Started playing with it.
> 
> I put oil on it however the y axis still seems a bit rough. Any suggestions?



My goodness, just a few hours old and already you've made a mess   Do share what goodies you got with it.

Anyway, I've heard that ensuring your gibs are tightened _appropriately_ is good.  It's possible there's paint overspray, or something else causing roughness.  Somewhere I saw posted how a guy made some replacement gibs for his minimill from brass, which helped out greatly.  The tricky bit was cutting the edges of the brass strip at the correct angle.

Mine just got picked up at LMS today, and won't be arriving until Tuesday'ish.  The wait, it kills me!


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## MSD0 (May 19, 2016)

Looks a lot nicer than the HF mill I have. I would check the ways and lead screw for burrs and grit. Try adjusting the gibs and see if that helps.


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## dragos28 (May 19, 2016)

;-(
if only i knew what the gibs were.... 

i purchased the tooling kit http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4491&category=

however i'll be honest, the 10 piece end mill kit is a rip off.... only the smaller sizes fit in the chuck, so why the hell did they sell me the larger sizes for if they wont fit with the provided chuck..
i'm sure at some point i'll upgrade but they made it seem as if this tooling package is mated with this machine... 

anyhow, rant over...

i also purchased the http://www.ebay.com/itm/Igaging-3-P...862796?hash=item1e7f5da68c:g:UPIAAOxyUSFSK8nN
and in my haste i tried to use a self tapping screw into the cast iron and of course it snapped off... rookie mistake.
i'll take my impatient butt over to the bolt store to buy a proper drill bit, a proper tap and proper bolts... lol...


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## dragos28 (May 19, 2016)

another issue i'm having, when clamping my piece into the vice, one end rises up.

how do i keep the piece flat??


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## brav65 (May 20, 2016)

dragos28 said:


> ;-(
> if only i knew what the gibs were....
> 
> i purchased the tooling kit http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4491&category=
> ...




Looks awesome! Congratulations on the new addition!  Could be a number of different causes for the rough sections.  Pull the table off, clean and deburre everything reassemble, adjust and you should be good.  Take your time drilling and taping the cast iron base.  A good sharp bit with lots of oil helps keep everything going smoothly.  Same goes for tapping the holes, clear chips frequently and use lots of oil.  The chips from drilling and tapping get everywhere and are very abrasive so clean up well after your done.

As a side note I would take the adjustable base off of your vise, it eats up Z axis travel and introduces additional flex to your set up.


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## dragos28 (May 20, 2016)

thanks, i like that idea with the removing the adjustable base on the vise. i'll see if that's possible.


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## royesses (May 20, 2016)

dragos28 said:


> ;-(
> if only i knew what the gibs were....
> 
> i purchased the tooling kit http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4491&category=
> ...



Don't use the end mills in the drill chuck. That is what the R8 collets are for. Use the correct size collet for each end mill.  The collets are secured and tightened with the drawbar. They will hold them tight and with little or no runout. Use the chuck for drills. That LMS kit is very nice.
BTW Congrats on the new mill. It's a beauty.


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## dragos28 (May 20, 2016)

Thanks @royesses 
I'm a complete newbie to milling and i appreciate any and all feedback, criticism, suggestions.
So to clarify. do i remove the whole drill chuck assembly to use the collets? or do i insert the end mill into the collet into the drill chuck?


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## brav65 (May 20, 2016)

dragos28 said:


> Thanks @royesses
> I'm a complete newbie to milling and i appreciate any and all feedback, criticism, suggestions.
> So to clarify. do i remove the whole drill chuck assembly to use the collets? or do i insert the end mill into the collet into the drill chuck?




Remove the drill chuck by loosening the draw bar then select a collet that is the same size as your 1/4" to 1/4"... Start with 1/4" or 3/8" and start by taking very light cuts, .oo10 and then move up, listen to the machine and look at how the cut is going and the color of the chips.  Watch some YouTube videos they can b very helpful.


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## mlindholm (May 20, 2016)

Ah, sweet.  I was on a tight budget at the time of ordering, so I picked and chose a similar, but cheaper kit.  I'll post details when my pallet arrives.

It's not a rip-off...you don't use the chuck with the end-mills, only for drill bits and the center-drill bits.  The collet set is used for endmills, and they did match up the two sets so you have the right collets for the endmills in that 10-piece set.

You pop off the black cap in front of the motor on top, then loosen that bolt (the "drawbar") with one of the included wrenches a half-turn or so.  Use the pin to hold the spindle from turning when you do.  Then give it a knock with a softer item...that is, not a steel wrench.  A hammer handle, or brass head hammer would work.  The wrench would work too, but over time it could mushroom the end of the drawbar.

That'll pop the collet holding the drill chuck loose, but it'll still be held by the remaining threads.  Hold the chuck, then unscrew the drawbar the rest of the way by hand.  Then you can insert an appropriate sized collet (there's an alignment pin..turn it until it slides in), and catch a few threads to hold it up.

At this point, you can insert an endmill into the collet, and tighten the drawbar the rest of the way.  One thing I read said don't use the pin to hold the spindle when tightening, just grab it by your hand.  Otherwise you can make it too tight to remove.


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## mlindholm (May 20, 2016)

dragos28 said:


> ;-(
> if only i knew what the gibs were....
> ...
> and in my haste i tried to use a self tapping screw into the cast iron and of course it snapped off... rookie mistake.
> i'll take my impatient butt over to the bolt store to buy a proper drill bit, a proper tap and proper bolts... lol...





dragos28 said:


> another issue i'm having, when clamping my piece into the vice, one end rises up.
> 
> how do i keep the piece flat??



So the "ways" are the flat surfaces that the bearing surfaces of the table and head slide against.  The table/head are held in on/in alignment by the dovetails on each side.  The "gibs" are strips of metal, that are held in place by those 4 screws and nuts, that actually slide against the dovetails on the ways.  You'll want to check the tightness of those 4 screws on each axis, to make sure they're not too sloppy, nor too tight.

The vise in that collection is a "Precision milling vise", and does have in it's features "Yes" to a hold-down mechanism.  It may be that your workpiece is bending, or out of square, and so as you tighten down it twists.  Maybe raise it up on parallels, and clamp it so the force is only squeezing close across an edge of the workpiece.  One other thing I've seen suggested, is to use a piece of soft wire for un-even pieces.  A piece of bare copper wire would probably work for this if you don't have aluminum rod.


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## MSD0 (May 20, 2016)

mlindholm said:


> Ah, sweet.  I was on a tight budget at the time of ordering, so I picked and chose a similar, but cheaper kit.  I'll post details when my pallet arrives.
> 
> It's not a rip-off...you don't use the chuck with the end-mills, only for drill bits and the center-drill bits.  The collet set is used for endmills, and they did match up the two sets so you have the right collets for the endmills in that 10-piece set.
> 
> ...


On my mini mill, you definitely need to use the pin. I don't see how you could get the collet tight enough by hand.


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## dragos28 (May 20, 2016)

thanks guys, for some reason those guys over at LMS also included some weird apparatus called an instruction book and after i put the kids to sleep last night i read through it. amazing whats contained in there, and here i thought i had watched enough youtube videos to be a master machinist  
jk

So i'll loosen up the ways and gibs just enough to allow the Y axis smooth movement, at the moment its too tight and feels rough.
I'll remove the drill bit chuck and use collets with the end mills.


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## Charles Spencer (May 20, 2016)

dragos28 said:


> another issue i'm having, when clamping my piece into the vice, one end rises up.
> 
> how do i keep the piece flat??



Get a dead blow hammer similar to this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-half-lb-neon-orange-dead-blow-hammer-41798.html


Mount the part on parallels.  As you tighten the vise and it starts to rise up, smack it down.  Push or pull slightly on the parallels to ensure the part is sitting on them.  Finish tightening the vise slowly and smack down as necessary.


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## mlindholm (May 20, 2016)

Charles Spencer said:


> Get a dead blow hammer similar to this:
> 
> http://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-half-lb-neon-orange-dead-blow-hammer-41798.html
> 
> ...



Is a deadblow hammer helpful for that?  Or just a non-marring hammer?  In my inexperience, I think this soft-head hammer would be ideal: http://www.homedepot.com/p/TEKTON-11-oz-Double-Faced-Soft-Mallet-30812/205559083 It would let you get a few quick smacks in, without having an awkward rhythm. 

Or if going with deadblow, just the 1lb version? http://www.harborfreight.com/1-lb-neon-orange-dead-blow-hammer-41796.html


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## dragos28 (May 20, 2016)

thanks, this morning before i came to work i ran out and pulled the drill chuck off and used the collet with the appropriate sized end mill.
world of difference.
also just used my little hammer i had to tap down the piece, the problem is that its an open rectangle so when i tighten it, it bows... dont tighten it enough and it moves, too much and it shifts, but as long as i tap it it lays flat.

i bought a drill bit, tap and appropriately sized bolts so i can install the digital read outs.. i'll probably do that today after work.


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## mlindholm (May 20, 2016)

dragos28 said:


> also just used my little hammer i had to tap down the piece, the problem is that its an open rectangle so when i tighten it, it bows... dont tighten it enough and it moves, too much and it shifts, but as long as i tap it it lays flat.



I saw in your initial picture, that you've got the part bottomed out in your vice.  Throw some parallels under it, so instead of clamping most of the outer faces, you're only squeezing on the bottom 1/8-1/4".  That will help prevent the sides from bowing in, and focus the tension on the bottom flat plane only.


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## MSD0 (May 20, 2016)

dragos28 said:


> thanks, this morning before i came to work i ran out and pulled the drill chuck off and used the collet with the appropriate sized end mill.
> world of difference.
> also just used my little hammer i had to tap down the piece, the problem is that its an open rectangle so when i tighten it, it bows... dont tighten it enough and it moves, too much and it shifts, but as long as i tap it it lays flat.
> 
> i bought a drill bit, tap and appropriately sized bolts so i can install the digital read outs.. i'll probably do that today after work.


You could also use a piece of scrap to support the inside of the part.


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## dragos28 (May 20, 2016)

so i tried my best to square the vice but it was off and my cuts were crooked.

i pulled the base off the vice and attached it directly to the table.

i got a piece of 4" wide aluminum got a square and etched 3 lines in it.

put it on the vice and used one of the smallest bits to mill a tiny line across, first line was off a few hairs, tapped it to the left, second line was almost perfect, another tap, third line was 98% perfect, for the 2" cuts i'm making it's going to work.


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## Chippy (May 20, 2016)

dragos28 said:


> so i tried my best to square the vice but it was off and my cuts were crooked.
> 
> i pulled the base off the vice and attached it directly to the table.
> 
> ...



That may be good enough for now, but eventually you may want to do something like this to square up (tram) your vice


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## brav65 (May 21, 2016)

Here is another great video on how to tram vise 




The site is Thom's Techniques, and he has a number of other great videos.


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## mlindholm (May 24, 2016)

Hey dragos28, I need to know what size sockets, wrenches, Allen keys, etc are needed for two places....the bolts that were holding it to the pallet, and the bolts/screws holding the column to the base. Would you mind getting those for me? 

I had my mill shipped to work, and will need to take it off the pallet to get it in my car, and probably take the column off too. Not having to take my whole toolbox to the office would be appreciated. So I hope you see this tonight.


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## Kevin J (May 25, 2016)

You should consider getting a set of collets to fit the spindle.  End mills in a drill chuck aren't recommended. they can pull out.  Collets also have less runout and will give you more room from the spindle to the table..  Nice looking mill, best of luck with it.

Kevin J.


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## mlindholm (May 25, 2016)

Kevin J said:


> You should consider getting a set of collets to fit the spindle."
> 
> Kevin J.


He did, as part of the "Tooling Package" ordered with the mill.  If you scroll up a bit, you'll see he just was less familiar with everything, and didn't know to use those instead.  Or was threw an endmill in the pre-mounted chuck to make chips ASAP. 

woot!  My mill is "out for delivery" today!


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## dragos28 (May 25, 2016)

mlindholm said:


> Hey dragos28, I need to know what size sockets, wrenches, Allen keys, etc are needed for two places....the bolts that were holding it to the pallet, and the bolts/screws holding the column to the base. Would you mind getting those for me?
> 
> I had my mill shipped to work, and will need to take it off the pallet to get it in my car, and probably take the column off too. Not having to take my whole toolbox to the office would be appreciated. So I hope you see this tonight.


Sorry man, I've been fighting a stomach bug for over a week, haven't been outside much. Hope you got it figured out.


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## dragos28 (May 25, 2016)

Kevin J said:


> You should consider getting a set of collets to fit the spindle.  End mills in a drill chuck aren't recommended. they can pull out.  Collets also have less runout and will give you more room from the spindle to the table..  Nice looking mill, best of luck with it.
> 
> Kevin J.


Thanks the kit I bought came with collets and I've since switched over to them.


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## mlindholm (May 25, 2016)

dragos28 said:


> Sorry man, I've been fighting a stomach bug for over a week, haven't been outside much. Hope you got it figured out.



No worries, and best wishes for a faster recovery.  I think I got what I need from some Youtube videos.


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## mlindholm (May 26, 2016)

So dragos28, another question for you.  I got my 3990, and found a problem with it...curious if yours was fine, or has the same problem.  The lock pin included to hold the spindle from turning while turning the drawbar, won't fit the hole on the spindle.  I checked with LMS, it's a known issue, and they're sending me a wrench that'll fit.



> This is a known issue with a percentage of mills we have from a current batch from the factory.  Just as you stated a few mills within a certain batch didn’t get the spindle pin hole bored out all the way.  Fortunately we have a solution.  The factory sent us some spanner wrenches that have been ground down to fit the smaller hole.  The new  wrench makes a much better hold than the standard pin anyway.  We’ll get one of these in the mail to you tomorrow.  Sorry for the trouble.


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## dragos28 (May 26, 2016)

Yeah mine didn't fit either. I didn't think to contact lms about it.


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