# New Lathe Bench



## Smudgemo (Jan 6, 2013)

I decided to replace the wood desk my 12x36 was mounted to, so I fabbed up a new steel bench.



It's spending the night in the kitchen to help dry the primer for a coat of black tomorrow, and hopefully I can get a drip pan made this week before mounting the lathe next weekend. 

Any suggestions on mounts?  I've got some shim stock, but I like the idea of jack-screws but don't don't know where to get them.  I also seem to recall reading something about rubber mounts for the drip pan.  Necessary?

For the actual layout of holes, I figured that I'd slide the lathe on this bench, mark the holes, slide it back off and drill them, but if anyone has a better idea, I'm open to it.

Best,
Ryan


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## Daver (Jan 6, 2013)

Looks good. Did you size the frame to drop a specific tool box/chest in there for tooling storage?


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## tripletap3 (Jan 6, 2013)

I built one very similar for one of my small Atlas lathe. I just used some homemade feet attached to fine thread 1/2 bolts on the bottom of the stand.  I found the best way to level it was to get the base as close as I could (using a good carpenter level) then shim up the legs of the lathe on top of the bench. Gave much more control and made it able to reverse any bed twist. Don't do the mason mount thing with it. It is too light for them to work properly.


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## Smudgemo (Jan 6, 2013)

I've got a couple of Craftsman tool chests that will juuuuuuuuuust fit when the casters are removed, so the storage options underneath should be super.  A couple of sheets of 3/8" plywood will make a shelf because I didn't try to make the space perfect for fitting the chests, just big enough to contain them.  I'll have a couple of inches of space between them if I want to hang anything bulky, but thin.  I'm kind of a visual person, so I'm waiting until I fit them to decide how things will shake out.  

And the feet are indeed adjustable, so my intention was to level the bench first as suggested, then the lathe.


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## wa5cab (Jan 6, 2013)

Ryan,

AFAIK, the rubber grommets under the drip pan that I mentioned earlier are there to seal the four mounting holes in the drip pan. If they had been intended as shock mounts or vibration isolators, there would be two of them at each corner. If you are never going to run a pump driven coolant system, I don't guess that they are necessary. 

But if you think you might one day, I would go ahead and put them in now. There will never be a better time to do it. If you call Clausing tomorrow and order four, they should arrive before the paint on the drip pan cures. The hole diameter for the seals is 1/2". 

And as I told someone else, be sure that you braze or weld a fitting to hold a drain plug to the bottom of the right front or right rear corner of the pan. I would do that whether or not you install the seals. At some time in the future, you are probably going to want to wash out the drip pan and it will save a lot of sopping if you can just drain the cleaning fluid.

Robert D.


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## stevecmo (Jan 6, 2013)

Aaaaahhhh, the wife's out of town.  

Nice job!


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## Uglydog (Jan 6, 2013)

I placed this tool box under mine. The added weight was an unexpected bonus. 
However, be careful to ensure the drawers get shut all the way or you'll be picking out swarf.


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## Smudgemo (Jan 6, 2013)

Well, I got a coat of black paint on it and it looks good, but at 50*ish in the garage, it's gonna be a few days to dry. The wife is actually home, but she's cool. Art major in college that handled an arc welder pretty well from what I hear. Maybe I should invest in TIG one of these days for my bicycle building and introduce her to it...




And I do hope the added weight of the tooling underneath is a benefit for me. Great shot -thanks. Makes me think round tubing would have been a good choice, too.


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## Smudgemo (Jan 12, 2013)

Getting closer...


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## mchildress (Jan 13, 2013)

Very nice. I am kicking around ideas on doing the same thing.


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## Ray C (Jan 14, 2013)

Ryan,

What kind of lathe are you building that bench for?  Also, I hope you saw the thread about "how level does a lathe need to be" -or something like that...  I had a tall bench very similar to yours but the legs were heavy-wall 2" black pipe.  It was pretty solid indeed because I'm a fiend when I got a welding torch in my hand...  When all was said and done, I still had to brace the daylights out of it and add about 400lbs of ballast (in the form of tools etc).  If it's an Atlas-type with the idler pulley and/or suspended motor, you might need to brace-up the short sides too.   Criss-crosses of heavier angle iron did the trick.  Light angle iron did little to help.

I took for granted the 1+ ton LeBlond I learned-on and grew up with.  When I got back into machining, I got an Atlas -and consequently learned a lot more than I cared to about rebuilding lathes and getting the vibration ghosts out.  Anyhow, the upshot was that the machine's weaknesses had to be addressed so the motor, belts and sheaves etc. needed fine-tuning and chucks had to be balanced.  After that, the rest gets fixed with brute-force strength and mass.  And much to my surprise, much of the table vibrations were coming from the short-sides (back and forth, not side-to-side in the long direction).

Anyhow, your bench looks good -and I bet folks are happy that it's out of the kitchen now...

Ray


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## Smudgemo (Jan 14, 2013)

Ray C said:


> Ryan,
> 
> What kind of lathe are you building that bench for?
> And much to my surprise, much of the table vibrations were coming from the short-sides (back and forth, not side-to-side in the long direction).
> ...



Disconcerting, for sure.  But I'm almost done, so I'm going to see what happens.  I'm not sure which lathe type you are describing, but mine is a 12x36 all mounted on top of the bench.  It would seem that mimicking the factory stand or bettering it (maybe) would be a safe bet, but that's a trap we all fall into eventually, I suppose.  I should find out next weekend when I move it over and get things leveled out.  I've got a three-day weekend and couple of fancy Starrett levels on loan from a friend, so at least that part won't be a question mark.

-Ryan


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## tripletap3 (Jan 14, 2013)

Once you get it done I bet that bench is going to make that lathe come alive. It will make a huge difference in accuracy. My pet peeve with the Atlas/Craftsman lathes is that they need a VERY solid place to sit. I think the Atlas lathes were designed with a lighter weight bed and were intended to be mounted on something heavy enough to be part of the lathe bed and give it mass and strength.  I love these old machines and I personal don't think they were designed to be light weight to be cheap, it just made it easier to ship from a catalog and more available to the average Joe.


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## Ray C (Jan 14, 2013)

Ryan,

Please realize I was not trying to be critical -not intended that way at all.   I'm really trying to spare you from days/weeks/months of figuring-out how to make an Atlas (or any lathe but especially the Atlas) cut well.  I was spoiled on a monster machine and had to learn a lot to get the Atlas (TH-42, smaller version of yours) to work well.

First, your bench looks great!  And, it's a solid base to work with.  If you feel it needs tweaking after trying it out, I would suggest putting heavy duty criss-crosses on each end that extend from the top to about 2/3 to the bottom.  Also, an additional 1x2 spanning from left to right in the front and back about 8-10" from the table surface.  

On the plus side here, these mods can be done afterward and since you used square tubing, you can make brackets or bolt them into place.  -No big toll on the paint job.  I on the other hand had round pipe which is a pain to weld and difficult to make brackets for.  I went with ruining the paint and re-welding it.

Believe it or not, there are very strategic reasons for those struts in those places -and being the nut-job I am, I actually put some analytic thought into it.

As it turns-out, I'm making a new bench for my lathe.  I just returned home with 500lbs of 1/2" wall, 3x4 angle iron and about 250lbs of it is for the bench.  Last, as an engineer, I hate grossly overbuilding things but when it comes to lathes, you have 2 choices...  A) Buy a 25 kilo-buck machine in which every gear is balanced and the (balanced) chucks cost a grand each or, B) be like the rest of us and buy decent/affordable machines that need brute force to kill the remaining vibrations that exist after the machine has been tweaked as much as possible...

Again, sorry, I did not mean to be rude with the original post...

Ray


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## Smudgemo (Jan 14, 2013)

Hey Ray, no worries!  I place great value on "good, old-fashioned crusty old-guy" advice (not that you are any of those, of course), and I appreciate the input.  I didn't mention it, but I do think it will be helpful to have some sort of roadmap as to why I might ultimately experience problems.  Gotta be more sturdy than the desk it's currently on, but we'll find out soon.


Best,
Ryan


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## wa5cab (Jan 14, 2013)

Ryan,

There is one thing I would suggest after you get the lathe set up on the new bench as you want it.  Assuming that the switch on the side of the top cover with the yellow cord coming from it is the main switch, I would relocate it to just under the drip pan and bench about even with the right face of the headstock.  That's where I put mine 30+ years ago and I've never wished that I had put it anywhere else.  I have the lever pointing to the left with ON-FWD being up.  When you are standing in front of the machine, maybe with your right hand on the feed or the cross feed lever, you left hand will mostly be dangling right by the switch.  Not only is it more convenient.  It's also much safer (you aren't reaching across the chuck to operate the switch)/

Robert D.


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## Ray C (Jan 14, 2013)

Well, I have my theories -and here they are...

Most if not all lathes have some vibration.  It comes from out of balance motor rotors and all the gears and chucks. -And worse yet, the workpiece and lathe dog.   If you have drive belts, they're often less than perfect and they impart vibration too.  On lighter machines (say, under 5-600lbs) you're often better served by taking lighter cuts because the machine is not heavy enough to take deep cuts.   Therefore, you're usually always taking lighter cuts.  I'm of the belief that lighter cuts are more prone to flaws due to vibration because the bit is not engaged deeply into the material.  ie. if you're taking a 50 thou cut (which I do all the time) the bit is so jammed into the material, you could probably intentionally shake the table and not see too much disturbance in the workpiece.  I feel that heavier machines will show less flaws in the workpiece than a lighter machine assuming they had the same amount of vibration.  So that's my theory -and thinking back on the differences between using a 3,000lb lathe vs a 1200lb unit vs a 300lb lathe, I feel it's a reasonable theory.  And by the way, I'm talking about natural vibrations -not the kind caused by bit chatter.  -That's a different matter.

If you subscribe to this then, vibration needs to be addressed more carefully in a light machine than heavy one -and in the next breath, I'll also say it's very important in all size machines.  -But it shows-up more in smaller machines.

The table...  Your table has long legs and long spans and unless you got very lucky and have a lathe that runs smooth as a sewing machine, it's going to shake the table -probably a fair amount.  Take a solid wooden stool, place it next to the leg of the bench, hold a dial indicator on the stool and indicate near the top 5-6 inches of the bench.  It will be jiggling constantly 5-15 thou and it will come and go with a periodicity you can observe.  The constant 3-5 thou jiggling is due to mechanical action and are called primary or 1st order vibrations.  The "swaying" of larger values are due to the 2nd order vibrations which are the sums of various harmonics that resonate through the long spans.   They have no place to go so they resonate and try to find nodal areas.  Go ahead and get a solid camera tripod, mount a DI and indicate off the toolpost.  Let me guess... 5, 10, 15 thou worth of vibration.  -I'll bet you a cup of coffee on it.  Now, if you're taking a 2 thou deep cut and the toolpost is giggling 10 thou -well, you tell me the outcome.  Sure, you'll get a 2 thou cut but it will show artifacts of vibration.

So, first you fix as many vibration problems as possible.  Gears are pretty flat and static balancing them is very effective.  Chucks most often benefit from static balancing but often need dynamic balancing.  -Belts and sheaves?  -They just suck no matter what.  The motor rotor (often a big source of vibration) -buy a very expensive motor to avoid that problem.  And BTW, the pulsing of cheap single phase motors causes plenty of issues.

There will always be some degree of remaining vibration -if anything, from the workpiece or lathe dog so, you kill it with tough love (translated:  Mass and reinforcement).

I've been through all this -more than once on more than one kind of machine... And not only that, it makes perfect sense from the pure perspective of physics (which I happen to know a little bit about).

So  there's my theory and folks can shoot it at and we'll have have fun learning in the process -and I always look forward to learning...

Ray






Smudgemo said:


> Hey Ray, no worries!  I place great value on "good, old-fashioned crusty old-guy" advice (not that you are any of those, of course), and I appreciate the input.  I didn't mention it, but I do think it will be helpful to have some sort of roadmap as to why I might ultimately experience problems.  Gotta be more sturdy than the desk it's currently on, but we'll find out soon.
> 
> 
> Best,
> Ryan


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## Ray C (Jan 14, 2013)

BTW, here's a picture of vibration evidence.  It's just 1018 HR cut at a few different depths and speeds.  See the smeary lines on the left side.  That was only taking off a few thou at a speed which I know my chuck develops a noticable dynamic balance vibration -about 840 RPM.  The real shiny part was a 20 thou cut with same chuck around 1200 RPM where the balance issue magically goes away.  -A little different...  Same carbide bit, same lubricant, same feed rate.  This is what vibration does.  That's not chatter vibration BTW, it's from the loosely engaged bit losing it's grip on the cut.  Push the bit in and the problem goes away.




Ray


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## Smudgemo (Jan 15, 2013)

wa5cab said:


> Ryan,
> 
> There is one thing I would suggest after you get the lathe set up on the new bench as you want it.  Assuming that the switch on the side of the top cover with the yellow cord coming from it is the main switch, I would relocate it to just under the drip pan and bench about even with the right face of the headstock.  That's where I put mine 30+ years ago and I've never wished that I had put it anywhere else.  I have the lever pointing to the left with ON-FWD being up.  When you are standing in front of the machine, maybe with your right hand on the feed or the cross feed lever, you left hand will mostly be dangling right by the switch.  Not only is it more convenient.  It's also much safer (you aren't reaching across the chuck to operate the switch)/
> 
> Robert D.



It's actually the switch added to reverse the motor.  The main switch is still located on top, however, that does make me think of using it as the main, and that does sound like a great location


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## wa5cab (Jan 15, 2013)

Oops.  I missed the little toggle switch.  Looks safe enough if you operate it with your left hand.  The only bench model Commercials I've had or been around had been modified for transformer winding with variable speed compound wound DC motors and their controllers were probably mounted to the front of the bench (they were loose when I got the machines).

Robert D.


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## Smudgemo (Jan 18, 2013)

Since it's so slow in the Atlas forum at the moment, how about a project update?  I moved the lathe to mark out the holes last night, and I'll take any advice before the smoke starts.  

I figured that I'd simply drill and tap holes for the four feet so I can shim easily while everything is in place (or in the future) when the tool chests prevent access from below.  But I figured I'd drill through-holes for the motor mounts because the mounting plate isn't all that thick. Seems like once in place, belt and motor adjustments can be made without disturbing the mounting bolts themselves for the most part.  The manual mentions something like 1.5" between the foot of the lathe and the motor mount, but it doesn't seem critical, especially using the prior mounting pattern as a template.  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of those points.

Getting there.



I've got the holes marked out, but I made a paper template based on the holes in the desk that I'll use to check against what I've scratched in the bench.




I hope it ends up sturdy enough as is (at least for now), but additional stock added to the sides and back will be my on my mind if not.  I just hope the chests go in without too much complaint.  I ended up cutting things kinda close, and a little struggle might ensue...

Best,
Ryan


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## GaryK (Jan 18, 2013)

I have mixed emotions about chip pans. If you are using coolant you need them.
Otherwise I would like to make one that acts like a giant funnel that directs  everything
directly into a small trashcan.

Makes cleanup very easy. Looks like you can do that on your bench.


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## Corm (Jan 19, 2013)

That's a nice looking lathe you have there. I have the exact same model. I've owned mine for about 10 years, and I love it. 

Is yours all original, or has it been restored? The paint job makes it look nearly new. 

Nice job on your new bench. 

Corm


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## Smudgemo (Jan 20, 2013)

Corm said:


> Is yours all original, or has it been restored? The paint job makes it look nearly new.
> 
> Nice job on your new bench.
> 
> Corm


Thanks.  The guy I got it from said he was the second owner and the first didn't use it much.  It funny how much Craftsman stuff I end up noticing in my garage.  Lathe, mic, shop vac, socket set, screwdrivers, etc., etc.

Anyhoo, here is the completed bench.  I skipped the totally clean shot and got to work with it, and it seems to be solid so far...  



I do like having a drip pan, very much so.



Just another item of interest.  I got this (matching) micrometer from my dad some years back.  I guess Sears was the place for stuff back in the day.


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## Smudgemo (Jan 20, 2013)

shawn said:


> I invested in a cheap set of transfer punches and have used them all the time. Great investment even if you only use them occasionally to be honest.
> 
> The lathe looks right at home on the bench, I like the contrast in colours.
> 
> Shawn



Thanks.  I may have to make a few now that the lathe is back up and running.  Drill rod ought to work, right?  I've got a few sizes sitting around.


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## stevecmo (Jan 21, 2013)

Outstanding!


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## Ray C (Jan 21, 2013)

Looks good!  Did it turn-out to be vibration free?  I bet you had fun getting those boxes in there.  

Ray


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## chopp47 (Jan 22, 2013)

That looks great

Dennis


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## Smudgemo (Jan 22, 2013)

Ray C said:


> Looks good!  Did it turn-out to be vibration free?  I bet you had fun getting those boxes in there.
> 
> Ray



You're perceptive.  I could have used another .25" of space but they just fit. 

Rigidity seems okay so far, but I haven't done any real work yet or used more than one speed doing it.  I'd really rather not do any more work on this thing at this time, so hopefully it will work out at least for the time-being.

-Ryan


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## griz11 (Jan 23, 2013)

That is a very nice looking bench your time was well spent on making it


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## Uncle Buck (Jan 23, 2013)

That bench with cabinet storage turned out sweet! Very tempted to do the same. I have the exact same machine and would appreciate the additional storage below. Bravo, well done.


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## outsider347 (Jan 23, 2013)

Ray C

Your comments hit home for me, regarding rigidity on a 12' atlas

I recently went thru my atlas doing the repair, replace, repaint rebuild. I purchased the lathe on the original C-Man wood top bench with storage below. I added a .125 SS top as well as a .250 steel plate under the motor / pulley & L side of the lathe.
Spent the time to level the bed with a Starrett machinist level.

Question is, more of of a comment, when I use a dog I can feel  a vibration coming off the lathe. ind of standing next to a propeller


Thought I put enough extra strength into the base, but I guess not

any suggestion....short of a trade up. Suffering from "dough" flu


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## Ray C (Jan 23, 2013)

Outsider,

It's pretty hard to suppress the vibration from a dog as most of them, especially the old fashioned hook/hole kind, really upsets the apple cart.  For that reason, I made a two-piece balanced one that is adjustable.  It has two sides that close toward eachother and always remains balanced.

The only way to suppress dog vibration is with about a ton of weight (-and that's almost no joke either) or use a balanced dog.

When checking for vibration, I think it's best to test with just your chucks mounted.   First balance the gears, sheaves etc and once that is running smooth any other vibration has to be killed with brute force.  If so inclined, check the post about "YALB -Yet Another Lathe Bench" in the "Other Projects" section to see the brute I'm making for just this reason.

Also, show a pic of your bench if you feel like it and maybe we can suggest more ways of beefing it up.

Ray





outsider347 said:


> Ray C
> 
> Your comments hit home for me, regarding rigidity on a 12' atlas
> 
> ...


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## outsider347 (Jan 23, 2013)

OK I'll have a pic to post tomorrow, It's 8 deg & snowing like crazy here south of Buffalo ny

Can you post a pic of your balanced dog?
tks


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## Smudgemo (Jan 23, 2013)

Ray C said:


> First balance the gears, sheaves etc and once that is running smooth any other vibration has to be killed with brute force.



Hey Ray, 
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but where would a guy get the "how to" for doing this.  I'd like to put it in my library if I need it later.
-Ryan


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## Ray C (Jan 24, 2013)

Ryan,

Check the thread on "D1 Measurement and Setup" in the "Metrology" section.  It shows how chucks are checked/adjusted for balance and shows a setup for a balancing rig.  Only discusses static balance and you need to be careful on thicker pieces as dynamic balance often plays a role.  Anyhow, the concepts are the same.

Ray



Smudgemo said:


> Hey Ray,
> Sorry if this is a dumb question, but where would a guy get the "how to" for doing this.  I'd like to put it in my library if I need it later.
> -Ryan


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## Ray C (Jan 24, 2013)

As for the lathe dogs, I cannot show a picture because, last week my buddy dropped by and really liked them so I gave them to him. They are very easy to make. Instead, I will show a very crude sketch...

*SOME WORDS OF CAUTION:* 


Anything you attach to something that rotates at high speed is potentially dangerous.
Lathe dogs are no exception and they must be securely fastened!!!
Lockwashers and/or double-nutting is a requirement!!!
You must keep your hands/fingers and other body parts that you care about away from protruding rotating things!!!
Anything you attach to a rotating object is done at your own risk.

That said...

The enclosed PDF gives the general approach but, the ones I make also have the ability to slide the arms. I will leave that up to your own creativity to figure out. Also the ones I make have rounded off corners (for safety reasons) and are made from roundstock -not flatstock. It was easier for me to sketch this showing flat pieces. When bolting this together, insert the bolts opposite to eachother (ying/yang) to maintain balance. Use lockwashers and/or double-nutting to secure the bolts.

Have at it.


Ray

View attachment DogBlock.pdf







outsider347 said:


> OK I'll have a pic to post tomorrow, It's 8 deg & snowing like crazy here south of Buffalo ny
> 
> Can you post a pic of your balanced dog?
> tks


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