# Tool recommendation needed



## better-lathe-than-never (Sep 11, 2022)

Posting here because it's for my Asian Mill (like Rong Fu), which came with very little tooling:  vice and a single R8 collet.

I want to get a Face mill with carbide inserts - thinking of 2-2.5 or 3'' with 4 or 5 flute milling head something like this Shars R8 shank head:





The shell mills are nice, but I'd have to buy they don't come with shanks and I don't wanna get a wrong one.  So many choices.... my head is spinning from just searching their catalog.  Is this a good one to get to start with?


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## pontiac428 (Sep 11, 2022)

I'd go with a mill style that has 90 degree cutting edges for more versatility.  Your Rong Fu mill will handle up to 3" face cutters with grace.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Sep 11, 2022)

If it's for a mill on the small side, a cutter that uses seht inserts (45deg angle) will work very well. Super free cutting and cheap as chips


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## mksj (Sep 11, 2022)

If you plan on only doing facing, then I would recommend a face mill with a 45 degree insert with a positive rake and one that takes standard inserts. The issue with some of the lower cost face mills purchased from Shar's has been the pockets/inserts do not all sit at the same height and you get a poor finish. Also their inserts tend to be a bit oddball. Glacern has the FM45 face mill either w/o or with an integral R8 arbor. Facemills w/o and arbor will tell you which arbor size to use, or just call them and they will provide you with one that fits. If you have a smaller mill I would stay in the 2.5" range, if you have a full size knee type mill you can get buy with a 4" face mill as described. Other types of face mills that have neutral or negative rake pockets require more Hp. Haas also has a nice range of face mills that a number of members use, I have their HS6NPin a 2.5" and use it in a wide range of materials and get very nice finish. I went with this insert style so I can also use it for shouldering up to 0.3" DOC. If just surfacing in lighter materials then you might also look at the HSPP which is a positive rake with a positive cutting insert. Each of the Haas face mills tells you the pilot bore size and that is the size shell mill R8 arbor you need. Others have posted one from Aliexpress which are far less costly, some have had good experience others not so.






						Glacern Machine Tools - FM45 Facemills
					

Glacern Machine Tools manufacturers CNC Machine Vises, Precision Tool Holders, and Indexable Milling Cutters for vertical and horizontal cnc milling machines.




					www.glacern.com
				




FM45-250T 2.5" face mill plus R8-FM100 arbor (1" face mill hole)
OR
R8-FM45-250 Integral R8 Shank Facemill - 2.5in
and you need the inserts.






						Shell Mill Bodies
					






					www.haascnc.com


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## better-lathe-than-never (Sep 11, 2022)

mksj said:


> R8-FM45-250 Integral R8 Shank Facemill - 2.5in
> and you need the inserts.


This looks good, but the inserts on that page start at $149 a pack....   what is the Insert Type that these FM45 milling heads take so I can look on eBay, etc for other options.


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## WobblyHand (Sep 11, 2022)

There's the other end of the spectrum that @MrWhoopee bought like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2255799996995364.html
50mm facemill with box of "SEKT" inserts for $29.30 including shipping.  You will need to source an R8 arbor.  I found one for $17.  Of course the inserts are fakes, but if they work, is that sufficient?

I have no direct experience with this, but I did order the face mill, because I need something.  Hoping to receive all the pieces within the next week and a half.


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## Chewy (Sep 11, 2022)

I have been using this one on a PM30MV mill for about 3 years.  Toss up between getting a better finish with this or fly cutter.  I usually use this because it is faster set up and I can take more off at a pass. Most times the finish looks like a mirror.  On second side of inserts. I have cut mystery steel with it that throws sparks.  That is why I bought it.  The flycutter was dulling in mid-cut. Just bought spare inserts for around $10 each. From memory it takes TPG or TPU inserts which are readily available.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3502684148...k9XX2t4U3r7hx0E9jNMsQbF4Y=|tkp:Bk9SR-7O1-XlYA

I use it on all of the steels and aluminum.  Make sure that the mill is properly trammed so you don't dish out the center.  You will have that with what ever you buy.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Sep 11, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> There's the other end of the spectrum that @MrWhoopee bought like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2255799996995364.html
> 50mm facemill with box of "SEKT" inserts for $29.30 including shipping.  You will need to source an R8 arbor.  I found one for $17.  Of course the inserts are fakes, but if they work, is that sufficient?
> 
> I have no direct experience with this, but I did order the face mill, because I need something.  Hoping to receive all the pieces within the next week and a half.


that's what I have, but with alu specific inserts (SEHT?). Works fabulously on alu and really well on steel, albeit with shorter insert life. Not super concerned about that as the inserts are so cheap ($1.50 each or so, with 4 corners).


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 11, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> There's the other end of the spectrum that @MrWhoopee bought like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2255799996995364.html
> 50mm facemill with box of "SEKT" inserts for $29.30 including shipping.  You will need to source an R8 arbor.  I found one for $17.  Of course the inserts are fakes, but if they work, is that sufficient?
> 
> I have no direct experience with this, but I did order the face mill, because I need something.  Hoping to receive all the pieces within the next week and a half.


That cutter takes an R8-FMB22 shank. Just be sure the R8 has 7/16 threads, not 12mm. 








						19.06US $ 52% OFF|R8 Fmb22 Fmb27 Fmb32 Fmb40 Tool Holder M12 Thread 7/16 Milling Machine Tool Holder Taper Shank Face Milling Disk Connecting Rod - Tool Holder - AliExpress
					

Smarter Shopping, Better Living!  Aliexpress.com




					www.aliexpress.com


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## KevinM (Sep 11, 2022)

PM727M mill, Chinese arbor, Chinese 3"-5 insert shell mill, Chinese Inserts, 6061-T6, no coolant, 1750 RPM.


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## Chewy (Sep 11, 2022)

Good picture.  That is what mine looks like.


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## better-lathe-than-never (Sep 11, 2022)

Do I understand this right:   SEHW inserts for steel and SEHT types for aluminum?!   Is there a universal one that works well on both?


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## KevinM (Sep 11, 2022)

better-lathe-than-never said:


> Do I understand this right:   SEHW inserts for steel and SEHT types for aluminum?!   Is there a universal one that works well on both?


SEHT for Aluminum (and steel), SEKT for Steel.


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## erikmannie (Sep 12, 2022)

I have had no problems with the face mill that I bought. I chose a (Taiwanese made) integral shank R8 face mill. The PN is R8-FM45-300 from this page:






						Glacern Machine Tools - FM45 Facemills
					

Glacern Machine Tools manufacturers CNC Machine Vises, Precision Tool Holders, and Indexable Milling Cutters for vertical and horizontal cnc milling machines.




					www.glacern.com
				




The inserts I chose are the Kennemetal ones, PN SEHW43-KC510M on the same page. The Kennametal inserts are expensive, to be sure, but so far they appear to be indestructible.

I mostly machine mild steel.

This face mill really throws off hot, sharp chips! Very exciting; I am seriously thinking about getting a Captain America-type shield to protect my neck, arms & face.


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 12, 2022)

KevinM said:


> SEHT for Aluminum (and steel), SEKT for Steel.


The third letter designates tolerance.

*Tolerance     * (e.g. "CN*M*G432" / "CC*M*T32.51")           (close window)


*Code Letter*​*Cornerpoint
(inches)**Thickness
(inches)**Inscribed
Circle (in)**Cornerpoint
(mm)**Thickness
(mm)**Inscribed
Circle (mm)*A​.0002".001".001".005mm.025mm.025mmC​.0005".001".001".013mm.025mm.025mmE​.001".001".001".025mm.025mm.025mmF​.0002".001".0005".005mm.025mm.013mmG​.001".005".001".025mm.13mm.025mmH​.0005".001".0005".013mm.025mm.013mmJ​.002".001".002-.005".005mm.025mm.05-.13mmK​.0005".001".002-.005".013mm.025mm.05-.13mmL​.001".001".002-.005".025mm.025mm.05-.13mmM​.002-.005".005".002-.005".05-.13mm.13mm.05-.15mmU​.005-.012".005".005-.010".06-.25mm.13mm.08-.25mm


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## Larry$ (Sep 12, 2022)

I've got a 2 1/2"  integral R8 shank that will cut square corners. The draw back is I only get two cutting edges on that type of insert. I wouldn't do that again. I use inserts designed for Aluminum. But I have also cut mild steel just fine. It is a lot faster to use than a fly cutter. It does throw chips but not as bad a a fly cutter. I like it.


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## mksj (Sep 12, 2022)

Unfortunately inserts are designed for cutting different materials, but there are some that will cover a wider range of metals. The inserts are not cheap, but can last a very long time. I have tried generic inserts in the past, and they just didn't last. The face mill inserts can be quite pricey and it is not uncommon for a manufacturer to have proprietary types. That being said, my 4" Iscar face mill uses 8 side inserts, so one box should last me many years. Also newer insert designs often have more cutting points and also some can be flipped, so my Haas HS6NP has three cutting positions on each side for a total of 6 cutting edges. I opted for an insert which is rated for steel and stainless steel, the latter usually requires a bit more positive rake and a sharper insert, it also works well in aluminum with a bit of lubricant. The ideally insert for aluminum is polished carbide with a sharp ground positive rake edge.





						HS6NP, 3" Diameter Shell Mill, 1" Pilot Bore x 90° Lead Angle, 6 Inserts (Trigon), Negative/Positive Geometry, TSC
					






					www.haascnc.com
				








						HS6NP, Carbide Shell Mill Insert, Trigon Negative Positive, Grade HMP35 - Pack of 10
					






					www.haascnc.com
				




In years past I was able to pick up several new/lightly used current style face mills on eBay and about 1/4 their list price, but less common these days. This assumes you know what you are looking for, understand all the designations and types, and the inserts are still available at a reasonably price. I tend to use my tools for many years so I can justify spending a bit more and not having to replace it probably in my lifetime. So an insert price might seem expensive, but equate that over many years of use in a non-production environment it is more reasonable. Many of the face mills have similar profiles and use the same style of inserts, other than the ones coming through Aliexpress most of ones purchased in the US are pretty close in price. Some of these may also be made in China but too different tolerances/quality levels. I machine my parts once with the face mill, so the finish is important and saves addition work/time if I need to deal with the imperfections. Below is some parts that I just completed in 7075 and 6061, using a FM45 type of face mill or the Haas mentioned, other than light buffing the finish is that of the face mill.


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## davidpbest (Sep 12, 2022)

You might find the attached worthwhile.  On your sized mill I would stick with 2 or 2.5" diameter face mill or smaller.  If you want a larger diameter, then I would suggest using a fly cutter instead.  My comments are based on 20 years experience using and RF-45 (the read one, not a clone).


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## dewbane (Sep 12, 2022)

I went with this for my Grizzly g0704:



			https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HQMXSM2/
		


Surface finish like glass, but it threw glowing hot jagged spirals all over my shop, and all over my dog's new $75 orthopedic memory foam bed. I also had to replace the sacrificial plastic drive gear three times in the course of that project.

I have no idea what a Rong Fu is, but unless it's at least 50% more beefy than a Grizzly g0704, then I recommend you stick with fly cutters. They also deliver a near mirror polish for one 232,573th less fuss and muss, although it takes about six times as long to traverse the surface.

If your Rong Fu is a giant El Bigass™ Super Strong™ Awome™ Super Power™ Mill From Outer Space™, then kindly forgive me for being a whiny pessimist, and please take me to your Rong Fu leader!


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## Larry$ (Sep 12, 2022)

dewbane said:


> replace the sacrificial plastic drive gear three times


I didn't realize they made mills with plastic gears. Is that common?


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 12, 2022)

Larry$ said:


> I've got a 2 1/2"  integral R8 shank that will cut square corners. The draw back is I only get two cutting edges on that type of insert. I wouldn't do that again. I use inserts designed for Aluminum. But I have also cut mild steel just fine. It is a lot faster to than a fly cutter. It does throw chips but not as bad a a fly cutter. I like it.


Those are APKT or APMT inserts. I bought one of those in a 2 in. cutter with the FMB22 R8 shank. Didn't care for it that much. Fine in aluminum, less so in steel. It may have been the inserts.


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## davidpbest (Sep 12, 2022)

dewbane said:


> I have no idea what a Rong Fu is, but unless it's at least 50% more beefy than a Grizzly g0704, then I recommend you stick with fly cutters. They also deliver a near mirror polish for one 232,573th less fuss and muss, although it takes about six times as long to traverse the surface.
> 
> If your Rong Fu is a giant El Bigass™ Super Strong™ Awome™ Super Power™ Mill From Outer Space™, then kindly forgive me for being a whiny pessimist, and please take me to your Rong Fu leader!


Your Rong Fu leader is attached. It's a lot more rigid that you might think.


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## dewbane (Sep 12, 2022)

Larry$ said:


> I didn't realize they made mills with plastic gears. Is that common?


I consider it a useful feature of the g0704 that one of the gears in the drive train is plastic. When I was pushing that big face mill across a piece of old railroad track, I kept encountering "tough patches" in the steel. Work hardened by the action of wheels rolling over the rail, I imagine. I was trying to be careful, but I kept crashing it. My mill just didn't have enough power to push that big face mill through that gnarly piece of track. It was a stupid project, but I was stubborn, and I plowed through.

If it hadn't been for those sacrificial plastic gears, who knows what I would have broken instead. Something a lot more expensive, I imagine.


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## Jim F (Sep 12, 2022)

dewbane said:


> I consider it a useful feature of the g0704 that one of the gears in the drive train is plastic. When I was pushing that big face mill across a piece of old railroad track, I kept encountering "tough patches" in the steel. Work hardened by the action of wheels rolling over the rail, I imagine. I was trying to be careful, but I kept crashing it. My mill just didn't have enough power to push that big face mill through that gnarly piece of track. It was a stupid project, but I was stubborn, and I plowed through.
> 
> If it hadn't been for those sacrificial plastic gears, who knows what I would have broken instead. Something a lot more expensive, I imagine.


A man has got to know his machines limitations...........


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## dewbane (Sep 13, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> Your Rong Fu leader is attached. It's a lot more rigid that you might think.


To Rong Fu, thanks for everything! Love, Julie Newmar.   

If you can push one of those without running into stupid problems like I did, you're going to be super happy with the results. I guess I'll slap myself in the forehead, and say, "I could have had a Rong Fu!"


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## wachuko (Sep 13, 2022)

dewbane said:


> I consider it a useful feature of the g0704 that one of the gears in the drive train is plastic. When I was pushing that big face mill across a piece of old railroad track, I kept encountering "tough patches" in the steel. Work hardened by the action of wheels rolling over the rail, I imagine. I was trying to be careful, but I kept crashing it. My mill just didn't have enough power to push that big face mill through that gnarly piece of track. It was a stupid project, but I was stubborn, and I plowed through.
> 
> If it hadn't been for those sacrificial plastic gears, who knows what I would have broken instead. Something a lot more expensive, I imagine.


Finally a question that I can answer….

 I know!!  This!  And yes, same setup…machining a piece of railroad track!  Machining the top with a face mill…
Grizzly P0704081 - CIRCUIT BOARD CESX 1101-28​








						CIRCUIT BOARD CESX 1101-28 at Grizzly.com
					

Grizzly Industrial, Inc. is a national retail and internet company providing a wide variety of high-quality woodworking and metalworking machinery, power tools, hand tools and accessories.  By selling directly to end users we provide the best quality products at the best price to professionals...




					www.grizzly.com


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## wachuko (Sep 13, 2022)

Jim F said:


> A man has got to know his machines limitations...........


Before or after?


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## dewbane (Sep 13, 2022)

wachuko said:


> Finally a question that I can answer….


You blew the circuit board? Ouch. I ate two sacrificial gears plus a set of carbide inserts. The funny thing is once I had milled the thing, I never actually used it for anything, and I gave it to a buddy for free. I have a 50kg Kanca anvil.


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## dewbane (Sep 13, 2022)

wachuko said:


> Before or after?


That's the trick, isn't it? Sometimes, you don't know what you can't do until you break something.


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## Larry$ (Sep 13, 2022)

I don't understand this photo 
	

		
			
		

		
	





	

		
			
		

		
	
. The colored area where the wheels run appears to be added on or has it just been colored manually?


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## wachuko (Sep 13, 2022)

Larry$ said:


> I don't understand this photo
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That was me... visualizing/finding the anvil inside the railroad track... That is how I initially intended to machine it.  Removing everything that is green....  With feedback from the folks here in the forum, I decided to leave one side curved and the other one sharp.  That was a great idea as it has come handy in a few occasions...

Here... photos should help with what I am trying to say...


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