# 240v/50a Welder Problem.



## markknx (Nov 15, 2015)

I recently bought a Eastwood Mig 250 welding Machine specs are 240v @ 47.3 A input. it is an inverter machine.  The problem is it seems to be welding way to hot. Now here is where it gets odd I took it back to Eastwood's show room and it welded fine in their shop. I checked the voltage at my outlet it was 245. the outlet is 35' from the breaker box, it is wired with 8 awg. wire. From the outlet to the machine there is a 15' extension cord made from  4/8 insulated cord. The cord on the welder is 8 awg. Anyone got any idea why this would be happening? By the way I am in the USA so all is 60Hz.

This issue was raised in a topic about the welder but I thought it may be a better question here.

Thanks up front for any help.
Mark


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## David VanNorman (Nov 16, 2015)

What was the voltage at their shop? You could just keep turning the heat down till it does what you want.


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## RJSakowski (Nov 16, 2015)

Is the problem the heat is too high or that the wire feed is slowing down?  

You shouldn't be having a problem with the wire feed but I did have that problem with a much older and cheaper mig welder.  Drawing current dropped the voltage to the motor and the wire feed speed slowed down. I changed the motor power supply to a PWM supply running on a regulated voltage and solved the problem.  My Miller Cricket MIG welder also uses a simple rheostat controlled wire feed motor but I have not had problems with that welder.  It just depends on the design specs, I guess.  I am not intimately familiar with inverter welder technology but if it is similar to other inverter power supplies, it is probably capable of correcting for input voltage variations.  If so, a drop in line voltage would cause an increase in line current which would drop the line voltage even more which could adversely affect the feed motor.

Since the welder runs OK at the showroom, you may have a problem with supply voltage.  You would need to check the voltage while welding.  Have an assistant make that measurement.  8AWG wire should be sufficient but it is possible that there is a poor connection somewhere which is dropping the voltage under load.


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 16, 2015)

i'm questioning also the voltage at the shop where you bought the welder at, 
was the supply taken from single phase power (240VAC) or were 2 legs stripped off a transformed 3 phase circuit @ 208VAC to get the single phase ?


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## markknx (Nov 16, 2015)

David VanNorman said:


> What was the voltage at their shop? You could just keep turning the heat down till it does what you want.


David, Yes I have been playing with that but I am concerned about a bad power "burn out".

RJ, the wire speed seems to be feeding good. Not like it is spitting or burning back. I can hear and feel the weld is way hot. Also I can dial the machine in to weld pretty darn good,  just not any were near what the chart is calling for. Say I set the machine for 1/8 I can weld on 3/8 or 1/2 and it runs good. Trust me when I say if I was sure I'm not hurting the machine I would be glad with the extra heat.

I did do a inspection of the wire circuit, I found one leg at the breaker that had a turn I Could get out of the clamp screw (didn't fix it though.)

Ulma Dr., yes that entered my mind. The store Manager is looking into that. any Idea what size wire is required for a 208 50 amp circuit? Reason I ask is thinking back it seem like his outlet had 3/4 thin wall conduit. I think 8AWG would be mighty tight I that.

You know guys it just occurred to me I could try the machine on 120v and see how it runs (it is dual voltage) I can use a different circuit and the use the two outlet I have pulled off of the 220 circuit to see if it welds hot there. May be able to rule some things out.

Also waiting on Eastwood's tech Dept. to call me back with what a normal amp draw should be. I could then clamp an amp meter on and see if it is close.

Thanks for all the input guys,
Mark


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 16, 2015)

for a short run i'd heavily consider using #6 wire for single phase duty for 50 amp service


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## GarageGuy (Nov 17, 2015)

I used #6 power cable for mine, too.  This is probably not it... but here are a couple of other ideas:  are you running DCEP or DCEN polarity?  What gas are you running?  Did you use their gas at the showroom, or did you bring your own bottle?  Pure Argon, 75/25 mix, and C02 all have very different welding characteristics.  Just curious because you wouldn't think one gauge power supply cable would make that big of a difference unless you're running at full 250A output.

GG


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## markknx (Nov 17, 2015)

GG, I am using nr211 flux core wire DCEN. No gas. Yes I would not think the wire gage would make that big of a difference. And if it did I would think it would make it run colder, but I am not an electrician.


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## GarageGuy (Nov 17, 2015)

That sounds correct.  I've never used flux core wire before, but I know it requires the opposite polarity as conventional MIG welding, which is DCEP.  Is it possible for you to get a line voltage reading at the power cord of the welder while welding at pull power?  Low line voltage would reduce welding output power and increase heat build-up inside the machine.  Usually the new inverter welders are built with quite a bit of tolerance for low voltage since that is the single most common problem in a home/hobby shop.  Weld.com even did side by side tests on inverter duty cycles to try to make them go into shut down mode, and it was nearly impossible to do on 240v machines.

Just grasping at straws here... But are you sure the power plug is wired correctly?  Your machine will most likely run on 120v, but not perform well.  Having tried it at the store and it working fine probably eliminated that possibility.

Very strange.

Sent using Tapatalk from someplace deep inside the garage


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## markknx (Nov 22, 2015)

Could not find an issue with my power, and Eastwood says they are running 220, so the machine went back. Not knocking the machine, it just didn't work for me. Lincoln power mig 210 mp on it's way. This will help let me know if there is an issue with my electric or just an issue with the Eastwood machines inverter.

Mark


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## scsmith42 (Nov 22, 2015)

Based upon an online voltage drop calculator and the distance from the LC to your machine you should be using #6 wire instead of #8.  On the other hand, unless you were pulling the total rated load on your welder it's close enough that 8 ga should work.

I have found that flux core wire seems to lay down hotter than solid wire.


Scott


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## markknx (Nov 22, 2015)

That is good to know Scott on the wire gage. But I still think that would make the machine run colder not hotter.

On the flux core hotter than solid yes I agree it will run hotter that is one of the advantages to using it. But I was way under the recommended setting to keep from burning of the flux at my place but the machine ran good at the recommended ranges at Eastwood. It is my understanding that the inverter should be able to compensate for any small variance in voltage.

Well I guess I will see how it all goes with the power mig 210.

Mark


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## 4GSR (Nov 22, 2015)

markknx said:


> That is good to know Scott on the wire gage. But I still think that would make the machine run colder not hotter....snipe....
> Mark



Mark, what Scott is trying to say is, when you have a voltage drop due to the high amp draw, you loose wattage at the stinger or where the wire touches and creates the arc.  It takes "X" amount of wattage to get the penetration you are looking for.  Increasing the wire size will help you reduce the voltage drop and get the wattage needed to make the weld needed.  Has nothing to do with making the machine run cooler and not hotter.  The machine will still run hot pushing the maximum wattage  needed to make the weld wanted.


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## markknx (Nov 22, 2015)

Yes I get what you guys are saying and the relationship between amps, volts resistance and watts.  Like Scott was saying it should be fine till I hit near the max output drawing the max input.  I am looking at a unloaded 245v at the outlet I have been unable to take a loaded reading on volts.

But the issue I was having with the machine is it was welding at what seemed like a much higher out amperage than it should have. the penetration was good as I checked it with a etch test. Are you saying that the smaller wire/ lower wattage could be causing the machine to behave as if it is running hot/higher amps?

Yes I am considering pulling a #6 wire in in place of the #8 as a safety and to protect the machines. But the power mig will have a max input of like 15 amps.

Mark


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## scsmith42 (Nov 22, 2015)

Electricity is consumed in watts. When voltage drops, current is increased in order to deliver the wattage demanded. Wiring is sized for current, not voltage. Thus a voltage drop on a wire can cause overheating due to excessive current over the wire. Same holds true inside the welder.  

That's one of the reasons why you don't want to feed high loads over a long extension cord. The resistance in the long run can cause a voltage drop, which in turn can cause the wire to overheat and start a fire or burn up the equipment fed by the cord.

I learned that lesson the hard way when a tenant burned up my old farm house by plugging a space heater into an extension cord. The cord overheated and started a fire.

I don't think that your problem is related to a voltage drop; just wanted to take a minute to share some knowledge.




Scott


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## markknx (Nov 22, 2015)

Yes, Thanks Scott.
Mark


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## markknx (Dec 11, 2015)

Up date On this I took the welder back and bought a Lincoln power mig 210 mp. It also seemed to run hot, Not as bad as the Eastwood welder but hot. so I took it down the road to a friends house and hooked it up there it still seemed hot. Now he is about the same distance from the substation, a transform is about as close as mine. I had the power company out to check my power coming in and although they say it is at the top end it is in reason. I put a volt meter on the welders plug while welding and only had a 1.2 volt drop in voltage.

All of this considered I would say the Eastwood welder was a good machine. However since I already spent the extra on the 210 mp I will keep it.

Mark


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## coolidge (Dec 11, 2015)

markknx said:


> Well I guess I will see how it all goes with the power mig 210.
> 
> Mark



You will trade it in on a TIG machine (waves Jedi hand). I gave my Lincoln 210mp to a buddy when I bought my TIG setup, he's been happy with it.


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## markknx (Dec 12, 2015)

coolidge said:


> You will trade it in on a TIG machine (waves Jedi hand). I gave my Lincoln 210mp to a buddy when I bought my TIG setup, he's been happy with it.



I have a TIG machine and I love it. But I do a lot of dirty welding on thicker stuff, the FC welder is much better for that. Also I figure if I have to go out to weld something TIG will make it a lot more complex. Dragging a bottle along, blocking wind, foot pedal... So this is my go to machine for most welding. I use Tig for clean stuff, thin stuff and pretty stuff.

Mark


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## coolidge (Dec 12, 2015)

I'm a noob welder and found MIG was not for me, BZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTT POW SPATTER it seemed uncontrollable more of a grip it and rip it process. TIG is much more my speed, the serenity of gas whooshing and a pillow like arc its like soldering. I do see how a guy would be there all day with TIG trying to get something done that a MIG would rip through quickly.


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## markknx (Dec 12, 2015)

Yes Coolidge it is quick. Spatter is a matter of fine tuning the machine. I always thought new welders would do good to learn on oxy acetylene welding as the process is slower and one can learn forming and controlling a puddle. Now tig is much the same as Oxy. in that it can be slower and allow this learning. I do tons of stick welding in the field and I love it.  (right up till I have to be right under the weld) You can tune the volts and wire speed down to some degree to allow for more control. As I mentioned it seemed the 210 mp is a bit to the hot side. I think for those that like to run a fast wide bead. me I like to work the puddle and have a tight bead.

Yes I like to TIG to it is clean and well controlled just not suited for dirty or outside work. also less mobile like in the field. What TIG set up did you get? One day I will get rid of my 400lbs transformer machine for a smaller inverter.

Mark


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## coolidge (Dec 12, 2015)

My Lincoln 210MP got me seriously irritated, (something usually gets damaged or starts bleeding when that happens) I had been practicing maybe 2 weeks and could not get my welds to suck in into the corner concave. So I got mad and cranked it almost to max, that did the trick but things got uh...lively. I purchased an Everlast 255ext and their cooler.


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## eugene13 (Dec 12, 2015)

bad gas will make your mig machine act like it't too hot, try another bottle and see if it gets better


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## pepi (Dec 12, 2015)

I have both, each has its place, the Miller twins.


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## markknx (Dec 13, 2015)

Coolidge that weld looks good. A little concaved but good. A crowned welled that is to high is generally moving to slow or not hot enough. I know you don't have that machine any more but just in case you find yourself having to MIG weld a gain.

Is the Everlast 255 EXT living up to your expectations? It looks like a nice machine. It also seems to get good reviews. Just would like to here your feelings on some pros and cons.

Mark


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## markknx (Dec 13, 2015)

eugene13 said:


> bad gas will make your mig machine act like it't too hot, try another bottle and see if it gets better



Yes it might. but I am welding,  FCAW not GMAW. So I am not using gas.


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## coolidge (Dec 13, 2015)

markknx said:


> Coolidge that weld looks good. A little concaved but good. A crowned welled that is to high is generally moving to slow or not hot enough. I know you don't have that machine any more but just in case you find yourself having to MIG weld a gain.
> 
> Is the Everlast 255 EXT living up to your expectations? It looks like a nice machine. It also seems to get good reviews. Just would like to here your feelings on some pros and cons.
> 
> Mark



So far the Everlast has been awesome. Look at my stainless welds, I'm a welding noob and that's after only like 1 hour of practice e.g. the Everlast machine is making me look like a way better welder than I am. Its so good it lets me focus on the things I really need to improve like not dipping the tungsten in the puddle, managing shrinkage/warping of the material. The only issue I have had is the HF failing to strike an arc, there are more than a few users out there who have complained about this but I figured it out its not the machine. If the end of your tungsten is contaminated (its possible to grind a tungsten and not clean off the very pointed tip) it may not start. I was having this problem because I was not breaking off the tip of a tungsten I dipped into the puddle and just grinding it, if the tip is still contaminated then it won't strike an arc. But one swipe of some 600 grit paper on the tip and presto it strikes an arc with no problem. Since then I now make sure to snap off the contaminated point or make sure I grind the tip clean and its strikes an arc 100% of the time. I have run quite a bit of beads with a single tungsten, so long as I don't screw up by dipping it into the puddle and let it cool down in the gas post flow it lasts a long time and no problem striking an arc since.

Everlast vs Miller here's the deal. I was drooling over the Miller Dynasty 280dx, that's the equivalent machine to the Everlast 255ext, actually the Everlast has some features the Miller doesn't. But wow the Miller was going to cost over $7,000 almost 3 times what the Everlast cost me. AND by the way a bunch of the Miller machine is now made in Asia so they don't have that Made in USA thing to justify the higher price. The catch with buying an Everlast is I have 6 Miller dealers within 15 miles of my house where Everlast has only a central service center I think in Idaho. So if I have an issue I'm kind of screwed with the Everlast, either they have to ship me parts which I will have to install or I have to pay out of my own pocket to ship the machine to them for repair and there are reports of people having to wait ridiculous amounts of time for Everlast to repair their machine, months in some cases. So if a guy relies on his welder to make a living then I say buy the Miller. But since I use the Everlast for hobby purposes spending the extra $4,000 for their service center network really didn't make sense.

PS: One thing I love about TIG, you can weld right over the top of your mistakes and its like they never happened, I love that.


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## markknx (Dec 13, 2015)

Guys take this Conversation to this link as we are straying off topic.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/eastwood-mig-250.39699/page-2#post-351250


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## BarnyardEngineering (Dec 14, 2015)

Well, since it looks like you have your "too hot" issue pretty well identified and mitigated, isn't it time for the thread to stray off topic?

Really it doesn't sound like there's much you can do about it but compensate by turning the welder down a little. The welders work fine at the welding supply, but run hot at your house and your neighbor's.

Very odd that a few volts makes that much difference, though. Most people, myself included, have to work with voltage drop, not rise.


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## markknx (Dec 14, 2015)

Well the Eastwood worked fine at their shop and then ran hot for me at home. The Lincoln ran hot at my house and at my friends house. As to that power We are both less than a block away from the same substation, both also are approximately 100' off of the transformer. I know the farther away the more resistance so the lower the volts. so being this close should put me at a higher voltage.

Mark


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## sanddan (Dec 15, 2015)

By running too hot do you mean the welder gets hot when running or the settings you are using are giving you more heat in the weld than required for the steel you are welding?

The chart with recommended settings  that come on the welder are only a rough starting point. Most welders that I've used seem to have settings that are "colder" than I like but my current miller mig welder's recommended settings are usually a little hot. If you can adjust the welder to get a good weld I don't think the welder is bad, just the chart. Make your own chart that you can jot down the setting that worked best for a given joint and steel thickness. This will eventually get you a chart that works for both you and your welder and will give you the best results.


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## markknx (Dec 15, 2015)

sanddan,
Yes the welds seemed hot not the machine. I agree with you, But I was way off and many of the reviews for this machine put it as right there on the auto settings. My concern was not whether or not the machine would weld good or not. Rather was something wrong with my power or with the machine.
My thoughts now are that there is more than one cause to my problem(not really a problem more power on the welder is good) First I think the fact that I am on a good circuit, with 245v is letting the machine perform at it's best. second I weld a bit cooler than a lot of people (like a little more puddle controle) And last the welder may have been set up to suit new welders who would weld hot and fast beads.
But as best I can tell the machine and my power are OK.

Mark


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## Keith Foor (Dec 16, 2015)

Ok, you do NOT have a power issue. The way an inverter welder works is the AC line comes into the unit, is rectified into DC first thing.  The inverter circuits then chop up the DC oddly making it AC again but at a higher frequency.  It's then rectified again and sent to the torch.  The way it's regulated is the control circuits look at the output voltage and vary the dwell time of the inverter circuit.  Since you are running an output voltage of 20 to 30 volts constantly (and the current varies) and the input lines are at 240 volts, the voltage drop would need to be really significant for it to loose control of the voltage and it change at the output.  This is how an inverter welder can run at 208 /220/ 240 /480 /575 on 1 or 3 phase and either not need switched or only require a switch be flipped to change the input voltage.  The old transformer powered units that used high current SCR outputs with a rheostat to set their output voltage were susceptible to voltage variations on the power line.  Inverter technology or ANY quality does not have these issues. 

Now your issue.
Your gas distributor is to blame.  The tank you have was filled with some other gas before and didn't get purged correctly when it was refilled.  
Most common MIG gas is a 75/25 mix of Argon and CO2.  There are specific tri-mix gasses out there that have helium, oxygen and some other gasses that will have an additional heating effect on the weld.  If the tank is full of a gas like that, it will do what you are talking about.  If the tank contained some level of one of those gasses, specifically oxygen and was relabeled to be 75/25 and not purged right, again you will effectively have the same issue.  
Take your tank to a buddies with a place with a MIG welder and hook it to his unit and try welding with it.  Or just take it back and get a new tank and tell them the gas you got is contaminated.  I worked on a MIG unit that was welding so hot that it would melt down the MIG tip and turn the gas cup orange when you welded with it.  Voltages and currents were all correct.  We were welding on 1/2 plate so the heat wasn't effecting the weld that much but it didn't look exactly right.  The guy finally said that it started when he changed the tank out.  We put a new tank on along with a time and cup and the welder was fine again.  Gas contamination does happen.  1% oxygen mix is used for smaller welders to run heavy plate that they can't handle running just 75/25.  If you got a high contamination of O2 or helium like we had, it would really heat things up.  

I assume that you used the same gas for both welders and had similar results.
I assume that you are also using the same wire in both machines.  
Bear something in mind with wire as it applies to building race cars.  You are working on parts of a 50 to 100K dollar car.  
The parts that you are welding are there to save the life of the driver in the event of an accident.
Are you sure that the bargain basement roll of coat hanger wire crap that was half the price of the next closest wire a good idea to be welding with.

I often wondered why my TIG welds were always black and smoky looking.  I prepped correctly, I used sufficient gas and still I got dark welds.  
When I finally started buying the TIG rod that wasn't the cheapest copper clad crap on the shelf, the welds began looking right.


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## markknx (Dec 16, 2015)

Keith, while you make  a valid point, and I appreciate your help. There is no gas, I am welding FCAW not GMAW. The rest of the post about the inverter was helpful and very interesting. I agree on the wire, I use either Lincoln or Radnor. Both ran about the same.

Please take any replies over to this forum as the mods already said we have gone off topic. Electric to welding.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/eastwood-mig-250.39699/page-2#post-351250

Mark


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## toolman147 (Jan 23, 2016)

120/240 is nominal voltage...that is to say it can fluctuate depending on many variables between the power distribution lines through the transformer to your house.  If you checked 100 different houses/garages you would be surprised to find that the 120/240 volt that we all know are not exact.  The minimal voltage differences you mentioned  are just that, minimal.  They would have no impact on the welder.  Too hot...turn down.  
F.Y.I  The general rule of thumb for motors is to keep them within +/- 10% of the nameplate rated voltage.


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## abrace (Jan 23, 2016)

toolman147 said:


> 120/240 is nominal voltage...that is to say it can fluctuate depending on many variables between the power distribution lines through the transformer to your house.  If you checked 100 different houses/garages you would be surprised to find that the 120/240 volt that we all know are not exact.  The minimal voltage differences you mentioned  are just that, minimal.  They would have no impact on the welder.  Too hot...turn down.
> F.Y.I  The general rule of thumb for motors is to keep them within +/- 10% of the nameplate rated voltage.



Agree 100%. I also want to add that the commentary about using 6AWG for a welder is likely overkill unless the welder is rated for 100% duty cycle at the top end. Many welders can use 12AWG or 10AWG wire for their 50 amp circuit, especially the lower end hobbyist ones with 20%-50% duty cycles at full amperage.

This is because the wire never has a chance to heatup. You weld for 2 minutes, then spend 2 minutes grinding and fitting up for the next weld...unless you are me, then you weld for 2 minutes and grind for 20, but I digress.

Take a look at article 630 in the NEC if you are bored.


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## toolman147 (Jan 25, 2016)

When it comes to wire sizing...The breaker size MUST be considered.  If your going to run a 50A circuit with a 50A breaker then #6 wire MUST be used.  If, for some reason, you want to downsize the required circuit size (amperage), then you must also downsize the breaker to match the amperage rating of the conductor (wire).  You can use a smaller breaker on larger wire, but, NOT a larger breaker on smaller wire.
#14=15A
#12=20A
#10=30A
#8=40A
#6=50A


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## toolman147 (Jan 25, 2016)

It's always better to play it safe when installing a receptacle circuit.  Article 630 allows for some exceptions for welders, however if the welder in question uses a standard 50A plug, then the receptacle would have to match (50A) and therefore a device that would draw more could be plugged into it, so the conductor (wire) and breaker would have to be sized accordingly.  Even in a home shop/garage where usually it wouldn't be an issue, there may be a future device purchase that would need the 50A circuit, so why not just run the complete 50A circuit the first time and be done, allowing for any future needs.


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## abrace (Jan 25, 2016)

toolman147 said:


> When it comes to wire sizing...The breaker size MUST be considered.  If your going to run a 50A circuit with a 50A breaker then #6 wire MUST be used.  If, for some reason, you want to downsize the required circuit size (amperage), then you must also downsize the breaker to match the amperage rating of the conductor (wire).  You can use a smaller breaker on larger wire, but, NOT a larger breaker on smaller wire.
> #14=15A
> #12=20A
> #10=30A
> ...



Yes, the breaker size must be considered but you cannot make sweeping generalizations such as the above. There are many exceptions to having a breaker larger than the norm for a given wire gauge, and they include motors, welders, air conditioners, etc. The proper wire size is determined based on the required AMPACITY of the circuit. The required ampacity can be adjusted up for things like continuous duty applications, and can also be adjusted down for things like welders where they have limited duty cycles.

The breaker may exceed the ampacity of the circuit in many situations, but not in many others. They are 2 different calculations and often are not equal.

Your standard amperages above are also incorrect for many situations and are really only correct for Romex, and SER cable (when in contact with insualtion etc). #8 Can go to 50A and #6 65A when using MC, or THHN in pipe, or some other situations.



toolman147 said:


> It's always better to play it safe when installing a receptacle circuit.  Article 630 allows for some exceptions for welders, however if the welder in question uses a standard 50A plug, then the receptacle would have to match (50A) and therefore a device that would draw more could be plugged into it, so the conductor (wire) and breaker would have to be sized accordingly.  Even in a home shop/garage where usually it wouldn't be an issue, there may be a future device purchase that would need the 50A circuit, so why not just run the complete 50A circuit the first time and be done, allowing for any future needs.



I won't argue with you here...it is always better to deploy a circuit using a wire size that matches, but that can get very expensive. In a shop where we might want 2-3 50A welding outlets so you can have the outlet near the gear, you can get into serious money real quick, chew up panel space quickly with large wire sizes, fill up conduit etc, all for a device that runs at 20% duty cycle? Not sure it is worth it to me.

While the code does not require it, it is accepted best practice to label welding outlets that use wire that is smaller than normal as allowed in article 630 with 'FOR WELDER USE ONLY'. I also label it with the circuit ampacity as well, since when you mix and match welders one may have a larger duty cycle than the other.


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## toolman147 (Jan 25, 2016)

Yes, you are correct on the exceptions for specific equipment...But I guess it was my mistake for assuming the original question was based on a home Garage/Shop scenario, where the person wasn't that well versed on the specifics of the NEC and would use the most common conductors available such as 6/3 romex... I should have known better than "assume" anything.
I totally agree that in a commercial shop where multiple Welders are used it would make more economic sense to wire them accordingly.  In a home shop where one receptacle may be used for a few different pieces of equipment, one 50A receptacle with #6 wire would be able to safely handle them.
My Bad.


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## abrace (Jan 25, 2016)

toolman147 said:


> Yes, you are correct on the exceptions for specific equipment...But I guess it was my mistake for assuming the original question was based on a home Garage/Shop scenario, where the person wasn't that well versed on the specifics of the NEC and would use the most common conductors available such as 6/3 romex... I should have known better than "assume" anything.
> I totally agree that in a commercial shop where multiple Welders are used it would make more economic sense to wire them accordingly.  In a home shop where one receptacle may be used for a few different pieces of equipment, one 50A receptacle with #6 wire would be able to safely handle them.
> My Bad.



Fair enough. Your suggestion will not get anyone killed and there is nothing wrong with it. It is a more expensive way to wire a welder when it may not be required, but if someone isn't completely comfortable understanding the wiring rules for arc welders that allows them to undersize conductors then going with the standard 50A Wire = 50A breaker will work fine and possibly future proof the install.

In my case I have 3 welders that each take a 50A 240V (6-50) receptacle, and the cords on them are short as heck, so I like to have the receptacle near the welder versus using 50A extension cords...so exploiting the rule saved me a bunch of cash...and when properly labeled and understood it is a perfectly safe install.

---Aaron


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