# Recommendations And Suggestions.



## nessimibrahim (Mar 20, 2015)

Hey hows it going fellas, I'm new to the forum and i believe this is my first post as well. New to machining but doing more and more reading, learning and getting more and more involved. The initial reason was to fabricate steel enclosure for  some of my projects . I then decided i wanted to purchase a mini mill when i discovered the Hi-torque LMS and was leaning towards that. But doing more and more research i figured i should probably go with something abit more capable of handling larger, or tougher tasks i would much rather spend a decent amount of money now then later down the road wish that i had bought something else and spend more buying what i should have in the first place. Which then led me to choose between Grizzly and Precision Matthews. I have now decided to go with Grizzly. But unsure which model would give me the most for my money. The models that i was considering  G0759,G0795, and  G0619. If anyone can help me out with some feedback, suggestions or anything at all please do. I would greatly appreciate it.


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## wrmiller (Mar 20, 2015)

If you can afford it and have the room, get the largest you can as you will find that as your experience grows, so will the size of your projects. If you have specific projects in mind it would help the folks here with their suggestions. For example, if you primarily are going to work in aluminum, plastics, and small steel parts that would suggest one size machine. But if you want to go after larger pieces of steel, cast iron, or stainless those would be better suited to a different sized machine.

And welcome to the Forums!


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## Fabrickator (Mar 20, 2015)

I have an LMS Mini and I find it pretty limiting.  It's all I had room for so it is what it is - for now.  When I look at my curio case shelf, most of my projects are about 6-8" or smaller.  Not saying that I couldn't squeeze something bigger through with proper jigging, but just using it normally as intended, table size, axis and quill depth.  
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 Keeping this in mind, it does a great job for what it is.

Rick


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## nessimibrahim (Mar 20, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> If you can afford it and have the room, get the largest you can as you will find that as your experience grows, so will the size of your projects. If you have specific projects in mind it would help the folks here with their suggestions. For example, if you primarily are going to work in aluminum, plastics, and small steel parts that would suggest one size machine. But if you want to go after larger pieces of steel, cast iron, or stainless those would be better suited to a different sized machine.
> 
> And welcome to the Forums!


I will be most definitely working with aluminum, plastic and smaller parts at first and my main focus but I would like to attempt once my skills and knowledge have progress is to construct my own firearm. As far as space goes i'm in the process of turning my garage into my workshop, so the only limiting factor for me is budget. I'm willing to spend around 1,500-1900 max and even that is pushing it just cause i know i will also need to buy tooling as well.


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## nessimibrahim (Mar 20, 2015)

Fabrickator said:


> I have an LMS Mini and I find it pretty limiting.  It's all I had room for so it is what it is - for now.  When I look at my curio case shelf, most of my projects are about 6-8" or smaller.  Not saying that I couldn't squeeze something bigger through with proper jigging, but just using it normally as intended, table size, axis and quill depth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really like the LMS and if i could afford both a large and small set up i'd get one. In fact the LMS is very local to me and i even went down there to check it out. I have yet to hear a single negative review about the hi torque but like you said its limited due to it's size but that was what it was designed for small parts and so forth.


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## nessimibrahim (Mar 20, 2015)

Of these four which would you get http://www.grizzly.com/compare?category=Mill_Drills&preload=G0761|G0619|G0759|G0754


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## tmarks11 (Mar 20, 2015)

nessimibrahim said:


> Of these four which would you get http://www.grizzly.com/compare?category=Mill_Drills&preload=G0761|G0619|G0759|G0754



G0704/G0759 (G0759 is a G0704 with DRO) is a higher quality machine with a larger table than the G0619.  They are side by side in the Grizzly showroom, and there is no doubt in my mind from looking at them (and reading numerous threads from owners, some of whom have both....) that the G0704/G0759 is a better choice.  I would also recommend you take a look at the Precision Matthews PM25MV, which is the same machine as the G0704, except with belt drive instead of gear head, with a DC motor.  It is $1600 without a DRO:

http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-MV-BenchMills.html

G0754: ABSOLUTELY NOT!  Round column mill is an exercise in frustration, as you have to re-indicate your part every time you move the head (as it will not be rebooted to the column in the exact same alignment).  The only reason why you might want a round column mill is for drilling things that are too big to fit between the table and the spindle.  You clamp it to the side of the table (or the side of the mill stand) and swivel the head so you can do your drilling (or milling).

G0761: this is the staple of mill-drills; the Rong Fu RF45 clone (the Rong Fu branded version sells at Enco for $3500).  This is a decent sized machine that can get some real work done, and makes the G0704/G0759/G0619 look like a toy.  Given the 4 you named, this would be my choice. 

Another place to look is Enco. Their RF45 seems to go on sale with free shipping for 2 out of 3 months of the year, and 20% machinery coupons show up about every 3 weeks).  It is on sale now, but not with free shipping:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMKANO=390&PMPAGE=7&PARTPG=INLMPA&PMCTLG=01


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## wrmiller (Mar 20, 2015)

My major problem with the 761 is the typical Y travel limitation of most of the RF45 clones. You have over 9" of table depth and can't get to 2" of it. But this may or may not be a killer for you.

If you are turning your garage into a workshop, then you might consider starting small and then adding larger machines when you need/can afford them. I am finding that I really do like having two mills and two lathes because I can have different setups on them, and if need be one can make parts for the other if something breaks. I will admit that most people are not likely to want to do something like this though.


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## tmarks11 (Mar 20, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> My major problem with the 761 is the typical Y travel limitation of most of the RF45 clones. You have over 9" of table depth and can't get to 2" of it. But this may or may not be a killer for you.


True, But the next Grizzly machine up that gives you more than 7" of travel is going to cost $3500... and at that price, you are within striking distance of a full size knee mil (with 12" of travel), which is way more capable.

It is always the gradual spec creep that empties your pocket book.  Or freezes you with indecision, and you never buy a machine as you try to justify upsizing your purchase.

I was happy with a Clausing 8520 (with 7" of Y travel) for years...

There is the Charter Oak manual machine ($2350 + shipping) with 12" of travel...

Welcome to Hobby Machinist... we are here to spend your money....  

Think about what you want to start making, and match your machine to those dimensions.  Don't over-think and over-spend until you have tried it and know this is for you.


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## nessimibrahim (Mar 21, 2015)

tmarks11 said:


> G0704/G0759 (G0759 is a G0704 with DRO) is a higher quality machine with a larger table than the G0619.  They are side by side in the Grizzly showroom, and there is no doubt in my mind from looking at them (and reading numerous threads from owners, some of whom have both....) that the G0704/G0759 is a better choice.  I would also recommend you take a look at the Precision Matthews PM25MV, which is the same machine as the G0704, except with belt drive instead of gear head, with a DC motor.  It is $1600 without a DRO:
> 
> http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-MV-BenchMills.html
> 
> ...


Tmarks thank you for clearing things up for me with your response, I definatly know i want a solid colum and doubt i would be using the head tilt much if at all. Also I actually have been looking at the PM-MV and was kinda wanting to go with it instead of the G0704 because of the belt drive and the dc motor. Which would be easier and more importantly cheaper to do add DRO to the PM or to change out the gear drive and motor of the G0704?


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## wrmiller (Mar 21, 2015)

If you look at my sig you will see that I have both the Charter Oak and a PM25 (older model). I added the DRO to the PM as well as gutted the gear drive and replaced it with a belt drive. IMO, this v-belt drive I bought is lacking in a few areas and will need to be modified. The new PM comes with a BLDC motor/drive which typically has better torque that brushed type DC motors. This is what I will be upgrading to on this mill. The DRO isn't difficult to install on this size machine. It was more trouble installing it on the LMS because of it's size. 

I would recommend the PM25MV over any of your other choices because of the better column mount, the BLDC motor and the ribbed belt drive. That and his kick-arse service is second to none. 

You can upgrade to the Charter Oak later...LOL.


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## tmarks11 (Mar 21, 2015)

nessimibrahim said:


> Which would be easier and more importantly cheaper to do add DRO to the PM or to change out the gear drive and motor of the G0704?


You can buy the belt drive conversion kit for $350 here that fits the G0704/G0759:

http://www.benchtopprecision.com/bf20_belt_drive_kit.html

You can see that once I add G0704 price + belt drive, you are paying the price of the PM25MV (not even counting the price of the motor upgrade).  I would go the PM25MV route.

DRO install isn't too difficult.  Matt also sells DROs (installed) if you want to buy them at the same time as the mill.  If you look at what he charges, you will see that he is essentially throwing in installation free.  BTW, the Easson 3A is essentially the same thing Grizzly sells on the G0759.


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## nessimibrahim (Mar 21, 2015)

All the points you both make  with regards to the two are exactly why I gonna go with the PM25MV which it came with a solid column but oh well everything else is exactly how i would want it configured. Only thing now is that I'm gonna have to wait til the the 25th of april when they have some in stock. Thank you  guys for taking the time to help and provide your knowledge and wisdom.


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## T Bredehoft (Mar 21, 2015)

I, too, chose the MP25, added 2 dimension DRO (the head comes quipped with it.)  My work envelope will fit within it. While waiting for the end of April, I'm looking for and picking up new and used tooling from Ebay. I've endmills, but no holders. The collets, well, I was taught collets are for workholding. I've got a little lathe for turning parts, won't need to do it on the mill.


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## nessimibrahim (Mar 23, 2015)

Well looks like were all waiting for the end of april for the PM-25mv. Placed my order this morning with Matt and put down my deposit like the rest of you gentlemen. From the information that you all have provided me with im more then confident that it will suit my needs for now and later down the road as my needs and experience grow. Usually i would be dreading having to wait for even a couple of weeks much less a month before it is even sent out in my direction. But going to take advantage of the time  by gathering all needed tools and/ accessories as well as anything to look out for  or modify/improve to the PM-25mv. Again I wanna thank you guys for the advice and input.


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## fahrphrompuken (Mar 23, 2015)

Welcome to the forum, what type of firearm are you planning to build? I ask because I am getting close to attempting to machine an AR lower from 6061.


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## Uguessedit (May 4, 2018)

wrmiller said:


> My major problem with the 761 is the typical Y travel limitation of most of the RF45 clones. You have over 9" of table depth and can't get to 2" of it. But this may or may not be a killer for you.
> 
> If you are turning your garage into a workshop, then you might consider starting small and then adding larger machines when you need/can afford them. I am finding that I really do like having two mills and two lathes because I can have different setups on them, and if need be one can make parts for the other if something breaks. I will admit that most people are not likely to want to do something like this though.


The Y travel on the 761 can be remedied fairly easy. First get rid of the accordion way cover on the column and use a flat neoprene sheet (cost $15 for 12”x48”) to protect the ways and if you want more front travel you can cut some casting away on the base. You should be able to get approx 10” of travel without changing the base. We also did some changes on our PM833t getting over 12” of y travel. Most the time we never use that much. Usually 8-9” of y travel is more than enough.


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## Fabrickator (May 4, 2018)

tmarks11 said:


> True, But the next Grizzly machine up that gives you more than 7" of travel is going to cost $3500... and at that price, you are within striking distance of a full size knee mil (with 12" of travel), which is way more capable.
> 
> It is always the gradual spec creep that empties your pocket book.  Or freezes you with indecision, and you never buy a machine as you try to justify upsizing your purchase.
> 
> ...



Wow!  I got 12" quill travel on my LMS Mini Mill with a simple modification to it for length and stability.


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