# Damage assessment help



## DeadGuyAle (Dec 3, 2022)

Quick introduction so you know what you are dealing with
Retirement looms in the near future so like others here decided to build a little shop. Very limited experience with machining but some exposure. So kind of need to keep it simple and forgiving as I wander through this.

Purchased a Clausing 4904 that I suspect saw some time in a school environment
Ol #3 looks like she got some use prior to being auctioned off around 2017 to the individual I purchased from.





Good news is, ways, leadscrew, spindle look to be in reasonably good shape.
Less than good part is, it’s been crashed with the cross slide, tool post slide and compound slide all taking some damage.


And a somewhat crude repair.
I can imagine a conversation between the welding shop instructor and the machine shop instructor taking place. Obviously the school didn’t have a mill 

Previous owner said it cut a slight concave on facing but never checked it out.

Cross slide with repaired area highlighted with black felt pen








Repair does not extend to the ways, not seeing unusual signs of wear.
Cross slide screw and nut are beyond help, Clausing actually had this assembly available.
cross slide is discontinued as is the compound slide.
Prior to dissembling I ran an indicator across both sides, near zero movement.

View attachment trim.66E3E591-F92D-49DF-90B6-23C9D8144DC0.MOV


Compound slide took some minor damage


And the tool post holder



How do I go about assessing the damage and overall condition of the assemblies and ways while I have it apart?
Tool post holder and compound are cast, cross slide is steel.
Clausing does have the tool post holder available. Expect that a new one would require some type of mating in to the original ways? Way out of my league here but willing to learn!
Goal is clean things up do what I can to preserve it.

Thanks


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## mattthemuppet2 (Dec 3, 2022)

not seeing anything of concern there. Some of the repairs are kinda ugly, but as long as they're structurally sound and don't affect function, I wouldn't worry about them. What makes you say the cross slide screw and nut are beyond help? Looks like some wear on the screw, but other than introducing some backlash, that shouldn't affect anything.


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## twhite (Dec 3, 2022)

What I see is mainly aesthetics. Those issues should have nothing to do with function. However things could have happen during the crashes. Low probability in my opinion. 
Is there excess play in the compound and cross slide? I have 1 lathe that has .060 backlash. It is very repeatable in accuracy. ( I do have the replacement nut) no real excuse not to replace  

some play can be removed by gib adjustment. Highly recommend this be done anyway. 

Is the surface flat and clean where the tool post goes. This is a big must. Check that. If not flat make it flat. If you have a mill or access to one it will be a simple op. If not then draw filing flat will do also. Just more time consuming. 
Check to see if the cross and compound lead screws are not bent. Do that by just dialing full travel. Should be same feel all the way. Ming you if you have the gibs adjusted snugly. It most likely will get more resistance on the end travel. Way less wear on those sections. 

My suggestion would be. Take apart and inspect and clean one component at a time. Compound then cross-slide. Then fire it up and make some chips. Actually working on the machine will tell you what needs addressed if anything.

Have fun is the main thing. 


Cutting oil is my blood.


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## benmychree (Dec 3, 2022)

Pretty good for a school machine ---


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## Uglydog (Dec 3, 2022)

DeadGuyAle,
Nice score. She will likely serve you well.
As far as assessing her for wear and damage, it really depends on where you want to take her.
As others have said she will likely make chips within normal hobby tolerances.
If you want to do a serious assessment, and as long as you have her apart.....
Score a copy of   (. Check our the Engine Lathe chapter (begins at page 256). 

Depending on what you have, you may need some additional assessment equipment.
And while it may be intimidating, with careful patience you can do an assessment, and if needed, you can do adjustments repairs without an expensive class. 
However, if you have not done this sort of thing before there is a significant learning curve for a rebuild, and a lot of physical labor.

Regardless, before you do more consider sourcing Connellys book (Machine Tool Reconditioning). While I prefer a paper based version, there are digital copies free online. At the very least it will help you appreciate the complexities of a lathe. 

Another option is that after an assessment you might also consider reassembly and using her as she stands and making a plan to come back to troublesome parts at a later time. Please remember that this hobby machining and rebuilding can be fun, safe and affordable. Please contact me anytime. I certainly don't have all the answers. But have been in your situation many times before.

Daryl


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## mmcmdl (Dec 3, 2022)

Nice looking lathe .


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## markba633csi (Dec 3, 2022)

I agree, mostly just cosmetic uglyness.  The screw is pretty worn and likely the nut too
I've seen much worse
Nice machine, it should serve you well


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## brino (Dec 3, 2022)

DeadGuyAle said:


> Retirement looms in the near future so like others here decided to build a little shop.


Excellent, congratulations!
My (not too distant) dream is to retire to my shop full of machines and projects.
Having everyday be a weekend sounds great to me.

Congratulations again, because that is a beautiful lathe!

I see nothing of major concern.
I'd run it for any project on my list and let that tell me what it needs (if anything).



DeadGuyAle said:


> Previous owner said it cut a slight concave on facing but never checked it out.


That is worth investigating to confirm, but realize it could have been a measurement error.......

Please keep posting about your progress.

Brian


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## DavidR8 (Dec 3, 2022)

I think you did really well there. Nice machine!


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## DeadGuyAle (Dec 4, 2022)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> not seeing anything of concern there. Some of the repairs are kinda ugly, but as long as they're structurally sound and don't affect function, I wouldn't worry about them. What makes you say the cross slide screw and nut are beyond help? Looks like some wear on the screw, but other than introducing some backlash, that shouldn't affect anything.


Thanks for the input! Basically reflects my thoughts as to the damage.
Cross slide had .0370 + of backlash. Not the best picture of the screw, threads are worn to a point and nut is in worse shape. Part is available from Clausing and about a week out so it gets replaced.


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## DeadGuyAle (Dec 4, 2022)

twhite said:


> What I see is mainly aesthetics. Those issues should have nothing to do with function. However things could have happen during the crashes. Low probability in my opinion.
> Is there excess play in the compound and cross slide? I have 1 lathe that has .060 backlash. It is very repeatable in accuracy. ( I do have the replacement nut) no real excuse not to replace
> 
> some play can be removed by gib adjustment. Highly recommend this be done anyway.
> ...


So far in my rather rudimentary checking I have not seen anything that points towards bigger problems. Everything fits tight, no odd wear on the ways. 
you can see the weld on the outer edge of the tool post way below. That corner is slightly low but the rest is flat a s far as I see.


	

		
			
		

		
	
Haven't checked if the cross compound screw is straight, good idea. shows little wear and fit with the nut is even from end to end.
 All the gib screws were loose and one was broken, uses flat gibs and they appear to be in good condition.

Following the advice to keep the work confined to a single group of items. Will get this all addressed then move on to the apron next. 

Thanks for chiming in and for the advice!


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## Manual Mac (Dec 4, 2022)

I see no no major problems either, nice lathe.
that lathe looks like a hanger queen compared to my SB9 that spent it’s first years in a HS shop, & BTW I’ve usually found the machine shop & the welding shop teacher are the same guy. 
if you just can’t stand looking at the damage, and decide to sell it PM me, we live fairly close & it’d look good in my small shop.
cheers


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## twhite (Dec 4, 2022)

I think you have a very good lathe on your hands. Remember that School lathe’s actually have low hours for their age. Most things are cosmetic. If anything was broken. It would be fixed at the time. 

Enjoy that machine. 


Cutting oil is my blood.


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## pontiac428 (Dec 4, 2022)

Looks great from here, nice lathe!  I'd never lose a wink of sleep over those repairs, the critical surfaces are intact.  Refresh the lead screw(s) and get to frying up some steaming chips.


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## DeadGuyAle (Dec 4, 2022)

Uglydog said:


> DeadGuyAle,
> Nice score. She will likely serve you well.
> As far as assessing her for wear and damage, it really depends on where you want to take her.
> As others have said she will likely make chips within normal hobby tolerances.
> ...


Thanks Daryl! a copy of Conneiiys book on order, paper is my preference also.

 I read your posts on the cross slide work you did for your lathe with great interest. There is a level of skill and patience involved that is amazing with that work.
Honestly if I had an option to send out my saddle, and cross slide components for a tuneup would seriously consider it.

Plans for moving forward are still a work in progress, really enjoy the basic mechanical aspects of simple cleaning, discovery and minor repair work. 
There are a number of bushing that need replacement, belts and jackshaft bearings are shot. And there is a slight shudder with the backgear engaged that needs to be chased down.
Most likely for now I'll just get everything cleaned up, functional and leave some patina, love all the blued parts and not that fond of painting.

Thanks for the generous offer of help, odds are we will be in contact


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## NCjeeper (Dec 4, 2022)

Exact same machine I learned on in High School metal shop 40 years ago.


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## DeadGuyAle (Dec 4, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> Nice looking lathe .


Thanks! 


markba633csi said:


> I agree, mostly just cosmetic uglyness.  The screw is pretty worn and likely the nut too
> I've seen much worse
> Nice machine, it should serve you well


New parts on the way, I mistakenly thought that the screw had been lubed with copper never seize until I realized it was just black goop with bronze embedded from the nut. While well lubed it was also well worn


brino said:


> Excellent, congratulations!
> My (not too distant) dream is to retire to my shop full of machines and projects.
> Having everyday be a weekend sounds great to me.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input Brian. Looking forward to everyday being a Saturday soon.
Pretty happy with finding and getting the little Clausing, enjoying the adventure so far and feeling better about the crashed parts after all the input from the group.


DavidR8 said:


> I think you did really well there. Nice machine!


Thanks DavidR8


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## DeadGuyAle (Dec 4, 2022)

pontiac428 said:


> Looks great from here, nice lathe!  I'd never lose a wink of sleep over those repairs, the critical surfaces are intact.  Refresh the lead screw(s) and get to frying up some steaming chips.


Thanks pontiac428 I'm still working on my shop space and waiting to cut some chips on the RF-30 








						Pretty sure I need a mill part 2 cleanup
					

continuing to poke away at exterior cleaning as time permits. In the middle of moving after 30 years so like to set aside a little time for something enjoyable and a beer!  Never been used has its good and bad sides. 24 year old cosmoline is either in a wax state or a varnish. Still working...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				



Need to stay off marketplace and craigslist and get some work done.


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## DeadGuyAle (Dec 4, 2022)

NCjeeper said:


> Exact same machine I learned on in High School metal shop 40 years ago.


That's cool, I don't remember the lathe we had in HS shop. Was more focused on the electronics shop and other than welding did not do much in the machine area.


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## DeadGuyAle (Dec 6, 2022)

Manual Mac said:


> I see no no major problems either, nice lathe.
> that lathe looks like a hanger queen compared to my SB9 that spent it’s first years in a HS shop, & BTW I’ve usually found the machine shop & the welding shop teacher are the same guy.
> if you just can’t stand looking at the damage, and decide to sell it PM me, we live fairly close & it’d look good in my small shop.
> cheers



Hey Manual Mac,
Thinking about it at my HS we had an automotive shop with a single lathe, no machine shop. Same teacher as the welding shop though!

I can adjust and learn to live with the cosmetic damage. If and when I get some skills with the mill, might touch up a a couple minor high spots and see if I can get the screw cover plate to sit straight. Would be nice not to have to look at counter sunk screws that kind of fit into the countersink

The little Clausing is a keeper. Kind of fits into the current path of fixing up older equipment for my developing shop. 

Thanks!


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## DeadGuyAle (Dec 6, 2022)

Thinking this chapter can be brought to a close with a general sigh of relief on my part.

In summary damage is looking to be just cosmetic.
There are options to address - skillset required.


Uglydog said:


> Connellys book (Machine Tool Reconditioning


Ordered for some education on my part.
Thanks for all the responses and assistance!

I'll start another thread for the soon to be ongoing work on the 4904 covering cleanup, some documentation and repair.

Thanks
Steve


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## Manual Mac (Dec 6, 2022)

The Clausing is definitely is a keeper.
Yeah, I like older machinery as well.
I keep bumping into my Sears 103.27270 King Seeley 10” table saw, & my Red Star/Delta 40A multiplex 12” radial arm saw, & my Davis & Wells 6” Jointer from the 40s in my shop. It is so rewarding to use quality tools.
But, alas I’ve run out of room. Need to thin out some stock I guess.
I’m down to one motorcycle, so I guess that’s a start.
Cheers


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## DeadGuyAle (Dec 6, 2022)

That's funny and good job!


Manual Mac said:


> I’m down to one motorcycle, so I guess that’s a start.


I need to reduce my three down to 


New space looks so spacious  add a car three motorcycles ....


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## Dabbler (Dec 7, 2022)

@DeadGuyAle Frankly I've seen far worse repairs and the lathe was still quite usable.  I know you will love it once you've used it a while.

very nice score.


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## Oldseabee (Jan 7, 2023)

In reading this I saw that you are dealing with Clausing too. They are great. Just so you know. When you call them go to the tech department.  Faster service than the parts depth. Tech department can also check in stock or out of stock or discontinued. If Clausing has discontinued a part that tech guy can ail you the drawings for that part. Handy service. I'm still looking for a small lathe myself. I did find a Crsftsman Comercial 11x40 for 900. But with my small area I would like a 30 in bed or shorter.
Have fun.
Mike


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## DeadGuyAle (Jan 8, 2023)

Oldseabee,
Thanks for the info on the Clausing tech department! They have been great to deal with but it would cool to have the drawings to see the original specs.


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## great white (Jan 8, 2023)

DeadGuyAle said:


> That's funny and good job!
> 
> I need to reduce my three down to
> View attachment 429060
> ...


That's nothing. Add 3 cars (Mustang, Corvette and a Mini cooper), a tractor (JD x750) and two 1100 cc+ bikes and you're getting close to how much I have jammed into a 2 car garage.....plus benches, boxes, welders, plasma cutter, Mill, lathe, drill press, etc, etc.

I think I'd get agoraphobia in your shop space.....lol!


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## sdelivery (Jan 8, 2023)

Use an indicator off a chuck or face plate and swing your indicator against a dowel pin placed in the way.
You can see if your cross slide is Perpendicular to the spindle center line.


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## Richard King 2 (Jan 8, 2023)

Being one of the only professional machine rebuilders on the forum I can see the lead screw is shot.  It's an acme screw and it has sharp edges or the pitch when it is suppose to be square.  You can buy a treaded rod and bronze nut that you will have to machine and fit to your machine.  Buying from these guys are  surely 1/4 the price new if you can buy them from Clausing.  I can talk you through it, on how to do it .  I suspect the welded area's made that area grow and need to be scraped. I have never seen a steel cross-slide unless it was done by the school teacher.  It looks original cast iron though.   I have students in Portland and Oregon City near you who could help you.  I've taught 4 or 5 scraping classes at Columbia Steel in Portland and I taught a young man named Hunter Hightower who lives in Oregon City who I am sure can help you.  Send me a private message  and I'll forward your info to Hunter and Tim.  A friend of mine Tim Besmer is a rebuilder in Tennessee who specializes in Clausings and I bet he has parts,





						Green Bay Manufacturing
					

Green Bay Manufacturing Company is a supplier of Metal Manufacturing Components such as ACME threaded rods, ACME Nuts, Threaded Rods, Steel Balls, Gears & Square Holed Sleeves.




					greenbaymfgco.com


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## DeadGuyAle (Monday at 2:25 PM)

sdelivery said:


> Use an indicator off a chuck or face plate and swing your indicator against a dowel pin placed in the way.
> You can see if your cross slide is Perpendicular to the spindle center line.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks sdelivery! Have not put much thought into how to assess if cross slide is Perpendicular to the spindle center line. It's crossed my mind so this will give me a starting point to play with.


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## DeadGuyAle (Monday at 2:49 PM)

Richard King 2 said:


> Being one of the only professional machine rebuilders on the forum I can see the lead screw is shot.  It's an acme screw and it has sharp edges or the pitch when it is suppose to be square.  You can buy a treaded rod and bronze nut that you will have to machine and fit to your machine.  Buying from these guys are  surely 1/4 the price new if you can buy them from Clausing.  I can talk you through it, on how to do it .  I suspect the welded area's made that area grow and need to be scraped. I have never seen a steel cross-slide unless it was done by the school teacher.  It looks original cast iron though.   I have students in Portland and Oregon City near you who could help you.  I've taught 4 or 5 scraping classes at Columbia Steel in Portland and I taught a young man named Hunter Hightower who lives in Oregon City who I am sure can help you.  Send me a private message  and I'll forward your info to Hunter and Tim.  A friend of mine Tim Besmer is a rebuilder in Tennessee who specializes in Clausings and I bet he has parts,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks jumping and and providing input Richard!
I already purchased a new cross slide screw/nut from Clausing. Will keep the original around as future project so link provided is helpful and am interested in what the proper approach would be. Will start a conversation around that at a later date.

You are correct that the cross slide is cast not steel. Lack of knowledge and assumption that is must be other than cast because is was welded. But it is very obviously cast when given a second look.

Would be very interested in possibly connecting with Hunter and have sent a PM your way.

steve


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## Richard King 2 (Yesterday at 3:29 PM)

I gave Hunter through his Dad Thomas your name and info you sent me.  Hopefully they have contacted you?


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