# King Pdm-30 Mill - Here We Go Again.



## HBilly1022 (Feb 14, 2016)

I just  picked up my new mill and stand and after getting them unloaded I found the box containing the stand had less than 1/2 the parts in it. The 2 sides and the drip pan were in the box but no front, back, door or bottom shelf. I called the dealer and he will get another one in. In the meantime I have the mill sitting on the floor and want to use it so I made a temporary wooden stand and carefully lifted the mill onto it, bolted it down, cleaned it up then turned it on. No power ...... what? Turns out there is a safety switch in the plastic shield support that prevents start up unless it is closed. Nothing in the owners manual about it though. Minor issue and resolved that. Then I turn it on and there is a serious vibration. I check the belts and one was a little loose. Tighten it up and restart. Same issue. Try a different belt setting and same issue. So I take the belts off the motor and start it again. It's the fricken motor!!!!!! I ran it for a few minutes and no change but the motor got hot so I gave up. Saturday night and I can't use my new mill after all this work and building a temp stand. I'm not happy.

I had a bunch of issues with my recently purchased King 10 x 22 lathe too. I worked through those but it took weeks and many hours of my time. I think I have addressed those issues but there may still be some lurking that I haven't yet discovered.

When I went through the problems with my lathe the dealer looked at me as if I were the problem and said they had sold lots of those lathes and never had any issues. Before buying this mill I asked the question about customer issues with this mill and was told the same thing, lots sold and no issues. 

I have lots of other King Industrial machines in my home hobby shop and I have not had issues with any of those, other than the recently purchased metal lathe. No they are not high quality products but they all perform well enough and have not yet given me problems. I really like my 6" jointer. All of those machines have the same style motors on them and they all run smoothly with no heat up issues so I know this motor is a problem.

What to do? Work my way through the issues with this machine, find another manufacturer or get my money back and stick to small milling on my lathe? The only other manufacturer / supplier within a 4 -6 hr drive from here is Busy Bee and I have read many bad things about their products.

Well I guess I'll go out to the shop and do something other than milling.


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## RIMSPOKE (Feb 14, 2016)

PUT IT ON A BABY VIDMAR . 5 DRAWERS & BUILT LIKE A TANK . 

I HAVE MY PM-727M MILL ON ONE & COULD NOT BE MORE PLEASED .


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## HBilly1022 (Feb 14, 2016)

After a bunch more fooling around with the mill I found several _sources_ of vibration and noise. Firstly and definitely it is the motor causing the vibration but that was causing other things to make noises and vibrations. The biggest noise / vibration amplifier was the wooden stand. Seems the side panels were vibrating and causing a lot of the noise, plus that vibration was causing resonance bad enough that it could be felt in the concrete floor near the mill. I fixed that and then found the plastic pulley cover was another source of noise / vibration. I located some spots where the cover was vibrating and hitting some other part of the mill. With the cover being hollow that was amplifying the noise. I put some thin rubber pieces between the cover and the noted contact locations which reduced the noise quite a bit and the vibration only slightly, if at all. I also found that one of the head bolts was loose. Tightening that did not seem to have any effect. The last and obvious real source is the motor itself. I put some thin rubber pads between the motor mount and the head frame but not sure if that did any good or not. 

End result is that the noise has been reduced considerably and the vibrations seems a little better. So maybe I am expecting too much. I can still feel vibration throughout the machine including the cross slide. However the vibration is not bad enough to cause a tool left on the cross slide to move. Does that mean the vibration is within reasonable limits? I checked my King 17" floor model drill press that sits beside the mill and it has a similar vibration on the table. My thinking is that may be fine for a drill press but not so for a precision milling machine. Is that reasonable thinking or am I expecting too much from the mill?

I checked the motor housing after 10 minutes run time, without the belts being connected, and the temp ranged from 120* F, at the bottom near the fan, to 150* F at the top. I thought that was too hot but found a site that indicates external temps don't mean much. Here's a link http://www.leeson.com/TechnicalInformation/hottopic.html. 

So what do the experienced folk here think? Does the above sound like normal operating conditions and my lack of milling machine experience is the real issue or is there an issue? Help please.


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## HBilly1022 (Feb 14, 2016)

Well I decided to just give it a go and see how it cut. I removed the taper adapter that was factory installed and tried to install a 3/8" R8 collet but the drawbar kept binding before the collet was tight. Pulled it apart and ran a tap through the collet to clean the threads and a die over the drawbar. Before putting them back in the mill I tried screwing them together and noticed there was a wobble. Something wasn't right. I thought the drawbar was bent and put into the lathe. The drawbar is straight. Must be the collet so I tried another one. Same thing. Ran the tap and die over them again but same results. So I look at the drawbar threads closely and as I turn it by hand I can see the thread pitch starts changing part way up the bar. It goes from a relatively steep pitch to no pitch and back again. The die doesn't have enough length to fix the problem so I kept working one of the collets back and forth until I could get the collet screwed all the way on. Put the drawbar and collet into the spindle and turned on the machine. Visually the mill end looked not to wobble and a check with the gauge showed a variation of about 0.0015.

I still haven't cut anything with the mill because I'm not sure I am want to keep it now.

Looking forward to your comments regarding the vibration / heat issues. If that is normal then I'll keep it and just work through any more things I find. But if I got a lemon now is the time to take it back.


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## David VanNorman (Feb 14, 2016)

I don't think you motor is any good .Perhaps your mill isn't much better. The manufacturer is King? I think I would look at another make.


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## JimDawson (Feb 14, 2016)

I would not expect an idling motor to get that hot in hours let alone in minutes.  I have seen a Chinese motor do that, but it doesn't seem normal. I returned two Harbor Freight for that reason.  A good motor generally won't vibrate very much.

Kind of sounds like the mill is not the highest quality.


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## John Hasler (Feb 14, 2016)

That motor is bad.  The centrifugal switch is probably stuck.  Make them replace it.


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## atlas ten (Feb 14, 2016)

What company did you buy it from? I'm in canada also. I bought a used similar style mill drill. No vibrations all way up to highest speed.
Jack

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk


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## HBilly1022 (Feb 15, 2016)

atlas ten said:


> What company did you buy it from? I'm in canada also. I bought a used similar style mill drill. No vibrations all way up to highest speed.
> Jack
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk



Thanks Jack, I've been waiting for someone with the same mill to respond. If all these mills do the same thing then I wouldn't be concerned but if mine is an odd one I would definitely be concerned.  I got the  mill from KMS Tools in Kamloops. What mill do you have?

John


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## atlas ten (Feb 15, 2016)

I have a force international frv 30-md-25.  Looks near identical. Bit lighter in weight only 300 lb. 
	

		
			
		

		
	



I don't have a lot of time on it. Only to make my fly cutter and try it out.
Jack

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk


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## HBilly1022 (Feb 15, 2016)

Next issue in the PDM-30 saga. I finally decided to use it the way it is and just face a piece of scrap mild steel. I haven't bothered to tram it yet, just want to see how it cuts with the existing vibration.
Now I discover there is 0.030" backlash in the spindle (z axis). Holy crap   that's a lot!! The owners manual has no information about adjusting that. Is this normal for these round column mill drills. I've read a few threads about people creating / having a fix which involves keeping down or up feed pressure on the quill to resolve this but can't find any posts indicating what amount of backlash they started with. If it's normal then I will just have to develop a method to deal with it or implement one of the solutions others have created.


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## atlas ten (Feb 15, 2016)

HBilly1022 said:


> Next issue in the PDM-30 saga. I finally decided to use it the way it is and just face a piece of scrap mild steel. I haven't bothered to tram it yet, just want to see how it cuts with the existing vibration.
> Now I discover there is 0.030" backlash in the spindle (z axis). Holy crap   that's a lot!! The owners manual has no information about adjusting that. Is this normal for these round column mill drills. I've read a few threads about people creating / having a fix which involves keeping down or up feed pressure on the quill to resolve this but can't find any posts indicating what amount of backlash they started with. If it's normal then I will just have to develop a method to deal with it or implement one of the solutions others have created.


I find with my mill best to keep a little pressure on the quill lock handle as I feed with the fine adjust. Then fully lock when I set doc. I know I can get couple thousand flex (measured from spindle to table) in machine just from grabbing belt cover and push up or down. Still better in my mind than princess auto mini mill. Not sure what your instructions say on howto tram your mill. I think mine can only be trammed with shims under pillar mounted to base. 
Jack

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk


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## HBilly1022 (Feb 15, 2016)

atlas ten said:


> I find with my mill best to keep a little pressure on the quill lock handle as I feed with the fine adjust. Then fully lock when I set doc. I know I can get couple thousand flex (measured from spindle to table) in machine just from grabbing belt cover and push up or down. Still better in my mind than princess auto mini mill. Not sure what your instructions say on howto tram your mill. I think mine can only be trammed with shims under pillar mounted to base.
> Jack
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk



Thanks, I'll give that a try. My instructions don't say anything about tramming but from what I've read about these round column mills, it is done by shimming the column base mounting bolts, as you noted.  I just did a preliminary test with my DTI and it seems ok but I didn't have a long enough indicator arm to get readings very far from the spindle center. Since I don't plan on making anything requiring a high degree of precision I think that will be good enough for now. I took some indicator readings on the vise that came with the mill and it seems to be warped. I will probably try milling it to make it parallel to the table or maybe I'll make one.  Buying one is an option too.


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## Ben Nevis (Feb 15, 2016)

I just measured mine, .021" backlash on Z axis. In a previous post, I mentioned adding a DRO to the Z axis. IMHO, it is a requirement, not an option, if you want to have any idea of where the quill is. At least with the DRO, you will be able to see when it moves, and adjust accordingly.

Fortunately, an Igauge or digital caliper will work, and is not very expensive.

Another fix that is on my to do list is to add the gas spring that Rick Sparber describes in this link.

http://rick.sparber.org/ZABG.pdf


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## atlas ten (Feb 15, 2016)

I don't think it has to be very far off center to take tram reading. I know mine is off. I can tell when i use fly cutter only 1 3/4".  I'm thinking they sold you cheap vise possibly for drill press. I use clamp kit so far from kms. I want to get a vise and rotory table just not in the budget. Quickly adds up one tool to make another and another. I got ultimate v blocks from busy bee. But they are not made from same plans. I bought them several months apart and  same day. 
Jack

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk


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## Ben Nevis (Feb 15, 2016)

Here's a video on adding DROs to the mill.


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## HBilly1022 (Feb 15, 2016)

Ben Nevis said:


> I just measured mine, .021" backlash on Z axis. In a previous post, I mentioned adding a DRO to the Z axis. *IMHO, it is a requirement, not an option, if you want to have any idea of where the quill is.* At least with the DRO, you will be able to see when it moves, and adjust accordingly.
> 
> Fortunately, an Igauge or digital caliper will work, and is not very expensive.
> 
> ...



After only using this mill a couple of times now I have to agree that some other means of reading the z axis is an _absolute must. _My drill press has a better system for reading the DOC and setting a stop. I'm really beginning to understand why this much more powerful mill was only $200 more than the smaller King model with nicer features but a very small motor. The trade offs are getting more obvious. Anyways, there are a lot of owners of the similar machines that seem to be quite happy, so I guess it can't be all that bad.

I just got back from the shop and finished my first real work on the mill. I used a 5/8" end mill and trued the el cheapo vise to the mill. The vise ways (if that is what they are called) are now parallel to the mill table and I squared up the fixed jaw at the same time. It went well. No chatter and no issues other than trying to set / read the z axis, noted above. 

On another note I contacted the closest service center and explained the motor heating issue. I was told that's not normal. So I called the dealer that sold me the mill and asked him to see if he could get me a new motor, rather than me having to drive 3hrs to the service center, drop it off and drive back for 3hrs. Then have to do the same thing all over when the motor was repaired. He is going to see what he can do for me. I'm glad the dealer is helpful. Otherwise this could be a real PITA.


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## HBilly1022 (Feb 17, 2016)

Update: Got a call from King Canada's head office today and I explained the situation. The guy I talked to said to send him the original tag from the motor and a brief written explanation of the issue and when he receives the tag he will ship me a new motor and drawbar. Things are looking up.

I've also been using the mill more and I'm starting to get used to the Z axis issue. The mill also seems to be very sturdy and working well. With the comfort of knowing the motor issue will be looked after I can now focus on learning how to use this new machine. I've already read a bunch of the Rick Sparber links and need to do a lot more reading. 

In the meantime I'll start with some simple tasks and work my way into more involved projects once I get a better feel for milling. I think my first projects will be to make a carriage stop for the lathe and redo some of the parts I made for the lathe taper attachment. I'm not happy with the way some of the parts turned out and now that I have a mill, I _should_ be able to produce much better and more accurate parts.


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## HBilly1022 (Feb 17, 2016)

Ben Nevis said:


> Here's a video on adding DROs to the mill.



Ben, I watched that video and I really like that set up. I think I will do something similar. I already checked out some sources for the DRO and the best price I could find was pretty decent. Unfortunately they are currently out of stock. I guess I'll wait until they get another shipment in.


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## atlas ten (Feb 28, 2016)

I have read this thread. Might be valuable to you http://www.Hobby-Machinist.com/index.php?threads/38796/
Looks like good mods for mill drills. Get the motor issue sorted?
Jack

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk


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## HBilly1022 (Feb 29, 2016)

atlas ten said:


> I have read this thread. Might be valuable to you http://www.Hobby-Machinist.com/index.php?threads/38796/
> Looks like good mods for mill drills. Get the motor issue sorted?
> Jack
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk



Thanks Jack. I checked out the link and watched one of his videos. Looks like lots of good info for us round column owners.

I should be getting a new motor any day now. A rep from King Canada called me mid last week and asked for a shipping address for the new motor and drawbar. It's being sent by courier to the little town near us. When it arrives I'll run into town and pick it up. The existing motor sure gets hot when I use it for a while. Hope the new one is better.


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