# Drill chuck stuck in tail stock



## grsabourin (Aug 15, 2014)

Hi 

I have bought a old HQ-400. This machine work good but recently I would like to use the tail stock with a dead center but is seem the drill chuck is stuck in the morse connection. This machine was not used during many years. I have dismantled the axis and put some penetrating oil in the big screw hole. Two days later no results. Is some one have an idea how to seperate these parts? What about pushing with a press?

Thank you


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## sinebar (Aug 15, 2014)

Doesn't your tailstock have a slot where you can push an extraction wedge through to drive out the drill chuck?


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## grsabourin (Aug 15, 2014)

I have a direct access to the drill chuck rode by the end of the axis where the screw is inserted. It is where I have put a lot of penetrating oil. It is sure I can support the drill chuck and push with a press by this access. I just scare to break something


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## sinebar (Aug 15, 2014)

When you extend your tailstock you should see a slot for inserting a wedge as in the pictures below.


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## schor (Aug 15, 2014)

You will not break anything with a press. I would just stick a rod into it and give it a smack with a hammer.


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## grsabourin (Aug 15, 2014)

I'm not sure I have this slot. If I have the slot I will try this way if not I will try with the press


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## davidh (Aug 15, 2014)

often they will release the taper when the hand wheel has cranked the shaft all the way in. . . .  exactly how were you going to press it out ?  sounds like an accidental "oh crap" to me.


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## darkzero (Aug 15, 2014)

I looked up the model & it appears to be a 3n1 machine. Not all lathes have the slot in the tailstock ram, especially smaller size imports. If you're able to access the back of the ram, insert a punch & give it a good wack, paying attention to catch the dead center with something. It should come right out. My guess is the dead center is too short for the screw to eject it. That is if it's not rusted in there.


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## Cobra (Aug 15, 2014)

I would advise against using the press. To loosen the taper, you need a sharp impact not a steady pressure. By the time you get enough steady pressure to release the taper things can go flying. I would use a mild steel rod just under the size of the threads and give it a good whack with a steel hammer. 
It should pop out.


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## mzayd3 (Aug 15, 2014)

You could try a pickle fork that is used for ball joint removal... just go easy on it


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## francist (Aug 15, 2014)

I recently encountered this on my wood lathe with no slot nor access through the back. I was able to slip an open end wrench around the taper between the back of the centre and the nose of the ram, then wound the ram back towards the casting. When the wrench encountered the casting, it pulled the taper free. Poor mans pickle fork?

-frank


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## Flatfendershop (Aug 15, 2014)

Heat can help these situations too - but be reasonable - don't heat to the point of distorting or altering temper (stop if the color of the steel starts to change).  Warm up the female portion of the stuck part and then use a drive rod or large punch as others have suggested to separate the parts.  If you have a good heat gun (blows hot air), this can be a good gentle way to warm up small parts.

I wouldn't recommend using a press in this situation.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Aug 15, 2014)

on the subject of heat, I'd use heat freeze cycles instead to loosen any bond (holding a compressed air can upside down = great freeze spray) then freeze again before giving the rod a sharp rap with the hammer. Heating is going to cause both mating parts to expand, which is the opposite of what you want.

Had the same problem with a shop changing a wheel bearing in a drum for me (for beer, so I didn't complain!). They couldn't press the old one out on first go so they heated the snot out of it until it nearly melted its way through the bag I brought it in, then they fought for ages to get a new one in. I did the replacement cold on both sides and they popped right out with a much smaller press.


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## brino (Aug 15, 2014)

I would also avoid the idea of jumping to a press, until other ideas are exhausted. It's just way too easy to overload something and break it before you fully understand it.

Do you have/can you find a manual for the machine to explain the process?

I have had great success with a homemade penetrating oil made with half automatic transmission fluid (ATF) and half acetone. The acetone makes it so thin that it wicks into small cracks easily. When the acetone evaporates it leaves a nice film of ATF oil. I was able to take apart an old milling machine that was sitting outside at a junk-yard for over ten years, not one broken bolt. In fact, I was even able to remove the stub of one handle that was broken off previously.

I would be patient as possible with penetrating oil, and try the punch and a good whack. The pickle fork is another great idea, just stop before damaging the chuck or tail-stock barrel.

Good Luck! Please let us know how it goes.

brino


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## middle.road (Aug 15, 2014)

Back to heat and cold. If you have the space in the freezer, 'soak' it in there for a few hours, then apply heat to the sleeve - gently, very gently.
I saw this method in action 40 years ago on decades old punch dies. The Tool & Die Maker would stick the whole section in the freezer overnight
and then go at it in the morning.
But, the tailstock spindle has a lot less mass, so take that into account. 

_Dan


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## wildun (Aug 16, 2014)

Yes, I agree with the punch idea, so long as you can get access (by removing the handwheel and screw) to insert a suitable piece of steel rod, bronze, brass - whatever, and whack it.   Probably a good idea to remove the whole sleeve and set it vertically on a vice (vise to Americans) in order to do this.  Use a couple of short pieces of angle iron to support the end of the sleeve.
 I have done it many times, no damage, no problem!   
If it is being caused by the tang on the drill or taper sleeve being a bit short, I sometimes drill and tap the end and screw in a permanent short bolt to lengthen it, if you don't, it will just happen again.)


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## John Hasler (Aug 16, 2014)

wildun said:


> Yes, I agree with the punch idea, so long as you can get access (by removing the handwheel and screw) to insert a suitable piece of steel rod, bronze, brass - whatever, and whack it.   Probably a good idea to remove the whole sleeve and set it vertically on a vice (vise to Americans) in order to do this.  Use a couple of short pieces of angle iron to support the end of the sleeve.
> I have done it many times, no damage, no problem!
> If it is being caused by the tang on the drill or taper sleeve being a bit short, I sometimes drill and tap the end and screw in a permanent short bolt to lengthen it, if you don't, it will just happen again.)



Are those tangs soft enough to machine?  I had assumed that the entire taper was hardened.  I have a drill chuck arbor that I'd like to cut off and tap for a drawbar.


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## JimDawson (Aug 16, 2014)

John Hasler said:


> Are those tangs soft enough to machine?  I had assumed that the entire taper was hardened.  I have a drill chuck arbor that I'd like to cut off and tap for a drawbar.




Normally they are not hardened, but may not be dead soft.  The best way to tell is a file.   I've had pretty good luck modifying stuff like that.


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## mcostello (Aug 16, 2014)

If the end could be plugged with a fitting this would be a perfect place to use a grease gun to force it out.


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## wildun (Aug 17, 2014)

John Hasler said:


> Are those tangs soft enough to machine?  I had assumed that the entire taper was hardened.  I have a drill chuck arbor that I'd like to cut off and tap for a drawbar.



Yes, normally reasonably soft and easily machinable.

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mcostello said:


> If the end could be plugged with a fitting this would be a perfect place to use a grease gun to force it out.



A sharp smack is really the best answer, it usually needs a bit of a jolt to free it and it's really simple - it's not really an unusual situation -  or remedy!


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## Andre (Aug 17, 2014)

Take the ram out of the tailstock, grab between the front of the ram and the chuck, and give the end of the ram a few good taps (with the spindle in your hand not supported on a bench) with a dead blow mallet.  

This will hopefully send vibrations through the ram towards the taper connection and will help break it free. Works for me sometimes.


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## grsabourin (Aug 18, 2014)

Thanks a lot for all answers. Very useful. Finally I put the axis in a vise supported by the end and hit the chuck with a hammer. One time and it was finished. Now fully usable

Thank you again


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## Hawkeye (Aug 18, 2014)

Now that it's out, carefully measure the length of taper that fits into the tailstock and compare it to the depth at centre that you get when the tailstock is fully retracted. You may have to drill and tap the end of the chuck taper to add a bolt so that the chuck will be released when you crank the tailstock all the way back.


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