# cast iron repair



## Sharky (Feb 16, 2014)

Ok, so I overtaxed my vice, tryung to use it as a press and cracked the cast iron  


Since its a crack and not completely severed, what are the odds I can weld it and have it hold?


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## xalky (Feb 16, 2014)

A vice takes a lot of abuse, as you've already demonstrated...:LOL: It will never be as strong as it was once repaired unless it was done by a seasoned experienced cast iron repair guy. The repair guy will tell you that you won't be able to afford him to repair it.

My guess is that it's a cheap chinese vice. If that's the case, junk it and go buy another one. You'll be way ahead of the game. That's the beauty of buying cheap vices...

With all the money in time and aggravation I just saved you, buy yourself a press too.)


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## Sharky (Feb 16, 2014)

I hear you and you are right several points.... I cant pay someone, I would try it myself. Its a $75.00 HF vice. I have 2 presses, but they're not here and I was to lazy to go get one. Oh well....

Act in haste, repent in liesure....

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## xalky (Feb 16, 2014)

:lmao:, I"m Laughing my ass off because I've been there! :rofl:  I held onto a broken vice for 2 years one time, thinking that I'd someday be able to fix it....Or maybe it would miraculously repair itself. :LOL:



Sharky said:


> I hear you and you are right several points.... I cant pay someone, I would try it myself. Its a $75.00 HF vice. I have 2 presses, but they're not here and I was to lazy to go get one. Oh well....
> 
> Act in haste, repent in liesure....
> 
> Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## Sharky (Feb 16, 2014)

I'm doing the same thing.... I beat the lug straight and reassembled the vice since I don't have another one here. I pulled the parts list off HF website and I'll try to order the part... otherwise I have a big ass heavy light duty clamp.... lol. 

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## xalky (Feb 16, 2014)

Is it just the part where the screw turns into? That's usually bolted in from the bottom and separate from the rest. You can probably make a new one of those out of steel, if that's the case.


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## iron man (Feb 16, 2014)

I have welded many vices if you want to know how PM me I will give you the details it is easy.. Ray


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## Sharky (Feb 16, 2014)

Its the back plate where the clamp screw threads in, its a one piece casting





The crack runs around one side and across the back  . Took a 3# hammer to knock it back straight


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## xalky (Feb 16, 2014)

I have a vice almost exactly like that. That part should be pretty easy to make.

In my mind, the vice was broken in another area.


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## chuckorlando (Feb 16, 2014)

I have broken and repaired that same portion on a HF vice using nothing but flux core wire. It lasted about 5yrs then broke again in another place. The weld is still holding strong though.


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## Sharky (Feb 16, 2014)

I was thinking about that, but 7x10 lathe and no mill = lots if dremel time  and what material will be strong enough? Lastly how to cut that big acme thread...


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## xalky (Feb 16, 2014)

What else do you have for tooling. Do you have a welder? Chuck sais he fixed his with some flux core. That's one way to try.

The acme thread can be single point threaded. If you have a small boring bar. Grind a single point HSS cutter that fits in your boring bar. Picture a big thick washer with the edge turned down, leaving more meat in the center, for your thread.

You could make that piece as one solid cylindrical piece minus the boss. That boss is there to prevent the piece from rotating when you rotate the clamping screw. You can try it, without the boss, just using the two bolts to act as your anti-rotation. Or you can weld a chunk of steel to it after the part is turned. The air space between the nutt and washer is why it broke, yours would be solid in that area.

Just throwing ideas out there.


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## Sharky (Feb 16, 2014)

Ive got an ironman 230, lincoln 250 tombstone and oxy-acetelene. I'm thinking about wirefeed, just not sure what wire and if I should pre-heat the cast iron.  I'll try something but still want to try and get the replacement part.  I have this thing about throwing anything away...


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## chuckorlando (Feb 16, 2014)

After looking at it again my break was a different part. The top is pressed into the base(best I can tell). Mine broke the ring the top was pressed in. But flux fixed it none the less. And fixed it pretty good for not knowing if it could even be welded with flux. Sometimes ignorance is awesome. ahahaha


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## Sharky (Feb 16, 2014)

Here's the pdf for the current vice:  hopefully parts are available. I'll try a repair, got nothing to lose.  http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/67000-67999/67415.pdf 

Part #9


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## Sharky (Feb 16, 2014)

Here's the pdf for the current vice:  hopefully parts are available. I'll try a repair, got nothing to lose.  http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/67000-67999/67415.pdf 

Part #9


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## charlie4128 (Feb 18, 2014)

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-how-to/pages/welding-cast-iron-detail.aspx
That is some good info for your stick welder I have mig welded cast iron trick is short bead then peen with a hammer while still hot don't let the metal get to hot or it will go super brittle also some welds like a dream some spits and sputters making you hate welding and want to throw things I would try the stick method I have had more success with that on engine blocks and bell housings but as always if its already broke what do you have to lose also clean it well grind it lightly to get all the crap off or it will be impossible


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## GarageGuy (Feb 19, 2014)

It's worth trying to weld.  If it doesn't work, it was broken anyway.  Lots of people will say it can't be done, but as chuckorlando has shown, it can be done.  A stick welder with cast iron (nickel) rods can do a good fix on cast iron if you pre-heat before welding and cool slowly after welding.  Use your Dremel to vee out the crack so you get good weld penetration.  If you were closer to me, I would help you do it.  Best of luck,

GG


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## John Hasler (Feb 19, 2014)

GarageGuy said:


> It's worth trying to weld.  If it doesn't work, it was broken anyway.  Lots of people will say it can't be done, but as chuckorlando has shown, it can be done.  A stick welder with cast iron (nickel) rods can do a good fix on cast iron if you pre-heat before welding and cool slowly after welding.  Use your Dremel to vee out the crack so you get good weld penetration.  If you were closer to me, I would help you do it.  Best of luck,
> 
> GG



I believe that using nickel makes it brazing, not welding.


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## uncle harry (Feb 19, 2014)

The nickel rodsI have used are welding electrodes (rods) with a specific coating to work with cast iron.  An arc welder is used so I believe that the correct process term is welding. Pre-heating is often recommended and peening also can be helpful.


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## Ulma Doctor (Feb 19, 2014)

Sometimes making a repair that doesn't work will inspire other ideas that do work.
I fear no cast iron repairs, but a with chinese vice it may be tricky to retain strength, their cast most likely will have a lot of carbon it it.
pre-heat your work, peen your welds,post heat and cool slowly
most of all have fun with the process whether it works or not!!!
if it works...braggin rights, if not paperweight:rofl:


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## John Hasler (Feb 19, 2014)

uncle harry said:


> The nickel rodsI have used are welding electrodes (rods) with a specific coating to work with cast iron.  An arc welder is used so I believe that the correct process term is welding.



If I use an electric arc to melt tin-lead alloy and stick two bits of copper together I'm still soldering.  I realize that the term "welding" is used very broadly but strictly speaking it involves melting and fusing the workpieces with the possible addition of filler.  Bonding them with a lower melting point material such as nickel or nickel-iron alloy is brazing.

One possible problem with brazing that vise part is that it may not be exactly the same shape after it cools.


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## GarageGuy (Feb 19, 2014)

John Hasler said:


> If I use an electric arc to melt tin-lead alloy and stick two bits of copper together I'm still soldering.  I realize that the term "welding" is used very broadly but strictly speaking it involves melting and fusing the workpieces with the possible addition of filler.  Bonding them with a lower melting point material such as nickel or nickel-iron alloy is brazing.
> 
> One possible problem with brazing that vise part is that it may not be exactly the same shape after it cools.



I was under the impression that if you melted the base metal into the puddle it was welding, and if you didn't melt the base metal it was soldering or brazing.  The rods are not pure nickel (although you couldn't tell by the price), but high nickel alloys designed to work best on cast iron.  They are flux coated and designed to work with AC/DC SMAW processes.  If you used an AC carbon arc torch or gas torch, this kind of rod would not work properly.

GG


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## itsme_Bernie (Feb 19, 2014)

Sharky said:


> "Act in haste, repent in liesure...."



Hah hah..  I must remember that 



Bernie


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## Pontiac Freak (Feb 19, 2014)

I have been using my charcoal grill for preheating my cast pieces and post heating as well.  After welding them I put them back in overnight and let the fire burn itself out.  Next morning the pieces are warm to the touch but that all.  Havent had any cracking issues yet.  Peening right after running a bead seems to help as well.


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## joe kozak (Feb 20, 2014)

...

can you braze it in place in the vice?  frankenvise


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## "Mike" (Feb 21, 2014)

I've  brazed a few of those crappy Chinese vices and they have held up pretty good but I also know that they are suspect and don't really reef down on them. That being said,  I've used them for at least 10 yrs and they haven't broke yet.  Pre-heating and long cool down IS the key.   They were broken when I GOT them so I had nothing to lose and I use them on moveable pedestals outside so I have a vice that I can move around. Mike.


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## Dociron (Feb 22, 2014)

John Hasler said:


> If I use an electric arc to melt tin-lead alloy and stick two bits of copper together I'm still soldering.  I realize that the term "welding" is used very broadly but strictly speaking it involves melting and fusing the workpieces with the possible addition of filler.  Bonding them with a lower melting point material such as nickel or nickel-iron alloy is brazing.
> 
> One possible problem with brazing that vise part is that it may not be exactly the same shape after it cools.



Welding is a fusion process where the material being added melts the parent material of the part to be repaired and becomes part of that parent material.

Soldering and Brazing are essentially chemical/mechanical bonds that are only as strong the physical strength of the solder or brass used.

Also Nickel has a melting Temperature of over 2600* and Gray cast Iron of around 2200* so I don't think your bonding iron with a lower melting point material.


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## John Hasler (Feb 22, 2014)

Dociron said:


> Welding is a fusion process where the material being added melts the parent material of the part to be repaired and becomes part of that parent material.



Welding does not necessarilly involve the addition of any material at all (cf spot welding, friction welding and electron beam welding).  It does involve fusion of the workpieces.



> Also Nickel has a melting Temperature of over 2600* and Gray cast Iron of around 2200* so I don't think your bonding iron with a lower melting point material.



Which is why nickel brazing rod is actually a nickel alloy.  Even if you use pure nickel, though, you are still filling the space between the workpieces with a second material rather than fusing them.

As I said, the term "welding" has been broadened in common use to include processes that would not be labeled such in a university classroom.  You can tell your customer that you welded his cracked manifold but you probably don't want to list cast iron as one of the materials normally repaired by welding on your midterm exam in an engineering class (you might get away with it in a votech welding class, though).


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## GarageGuy (Feb 22, 2014)

John Hasler said:


> As I said, the term "welding" has been broadened in common use to include processes that would not be labeled such in a university classroom.  You can tell your customer that you welded his cracked manifold but you probably don't want to list cast iron as one of the materials normally repaired by welding on your midterm exam in an engineering class (you might get away with it in a votech welding class, though).



Ouch.  Condescend much?

GG


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## Dociron (Feb 22, 2014)

Well I guess to an engineer the terms Nickle brazing rod and Nickle welding rod mean the same thing.

To a life long blacksmith, welder they mean two distinct things that *​do two distinct things.*​ As far as I'm concerned not much practical welding gets accomplished in a college class room anyway.:shrugs:


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## John Hasler (Feb 22, 2014)

GarageGuy said:


> Ouch.  Condescend much?
> 
> GG



Sorry if I seemed condescending.  That was not my intent.


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## Dociron (Feb 22, 2014)

John Hasler said:


> Sorry if I seemed condescending.  That was not my intent.



Apology accepted.eace:


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## 283v8 (Feb 23, 2014)

I had my grandfathers vise and broke the "slide" in half. Couldn't stand to get rid of it so it lived under the bench for many years. 
In a brainstorm one day i decided to make it into a woodworking vice. 

I cut the main body down and added a mounting plate, guides, slides, and mounting plates for wood jaws. 
It turned out great. It mounts under the bench "upside down"  from original position but using the original mounting holes.


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