# Machinery's Handbook



## PHPaul (Dec 23, 2018)

Thinking I need to add this to my library, but not sure which edition I should look for.

I do not have and likely will never have CNC capability.  If I hit the megabucks (unlikely since I don't play...) I MIGHT get set up with DRO and power feed stuff, but that's as advanced as I'm likely to get.  Therefore, I don't see much advantage to forking over for the latest and greatest.

So, for a beginning hobbyist that will be doing strictly manual machining,  what era/edition should I be looking at?


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## Technical Ted (Dec 23, 2018)

I have a few copies, none of them very recent. The basic information in them doesn't change. From the type of work you are describing you'll be doing I think just about any version will be fine. Go with whatever you can get for a good price.

Ted


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## Cadillac STS (Dec 23, 2018)

Search for the one for lowest price regardless of "Era"  All will have the info you need.

Just checked Ebay and you can download a PDF 2016 Machinery's handbook for $5.99


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## projectnut (Dec 23, 2018)

If you're looking for information primarily related to manual machines and imperial measurements editions 11 through 26 should cover almost anything you're looking for.  If you need information about now obsolete threads or tooling older than the 1940's look for editions in the 6th to 10th range.  If you needs are primarily metric edition 29 and newer have the most information.  Editions 26 and older have very little in the way of metrics.

Personally I have about a dozen copies ranging from an anniversary printing of the 1st edition to the 29th edition.  I found I needed a number of different editions due to the type of repair and reconstruction work I do.  I deal a lot with older obsolete fasteners and machine parts.  Since I also deal with machinery from the 1940's to the 1980's I found I needed a bit more "modern" information than that found in the first dozen or so editions.

Depending on the range of work you do you may need several editions.  As new editions come out older information is deleted and newer information and techniques are added.

In the past I have found most complete and undamaged books in the $20.00 to $30.00 range.  Ones selling for less money are often missing pages, or are damaged to the point they will fall apart with much use.  If purchasing from eBay be sure to ask the seller if the book is complete and undamaged.  Many come from estates and the sellers haven't even opened them let alone inspected for damage or missing pages.   Keep in mind a new copy of the 30th edition is available from Barnes & Noble for $75.00.  I have purchased a few editions new from them but the latest editions have deleted much of the information I am interested in.


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## middle.road (Dec 23, 2018)

Save yourself the $5.99 and perform a web search for "Machinery's handbook PDF". That's all that the seller on eBay did.
Look for results from 'theminimachineshop.com' - 2638 pgs.


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## Bi11Hudson (Dec 23, 2018)

My two cents worth here: I started with a recent (at the time) copy, Nr 26 I think it was. There was a great deal of "automation" info, running computers and the like. But little information for doing things by hand. 

I purchased several earlier editions to find the most useful. Of those I looked into, the most useful were between 1936 and 1956. The really early ones contain useful information, just not enough of it. The more recent copies cover most of the same information, but from a perspective of a computer operator with a fully automatic machine.

It must be kept in mind that the book is a synopsis of magazine articles as published for an industrial environment. As technology has increased, so too has the technical information. What we, as hobbyists, pursue today is what industry pursued in the WW2 era. There of course is a very wide view, as many hobbyists work in limited production operations. Of their own instigation, for the most part. But others fit into the catagory where I am.

I have *had* CNC additions on my machines. Emphasis on the *had*, as I soon removed the better part of what I had and reverted to manual operation. But I am in the hobby of building models, not machining. Making mistakes is a part of my hobby. As is one off parts. If I needed a hundred parts, I would use CNC. But, as a rule, I need one part to fix whatever wife ran over with her riding mower, or what I need to tighten up my tractor. The time to program the basic moves in CNC, I will have built what I needed.

The bottom line here is that I am looking for information on how to do something by hand. I already know how to program computers. In old, archaic languages, true. But the techniques are the same, just faster. WinDoze is done in '86 assembler. The 80286 didn't exist in my day. The IBM-XT was the limit of a micro.

Bill Hudson​


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## pontiac428 (Dec 23, 2018)

My copy of the handbook is the same vintage as my lathe, 1936. I'm of the opinion that it is the most relevant for the type of work I want to do.

(from mobile)


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## bhigdog (Dec 23, 2018)

The one I use the most is from 1945. The one I hardly open is about 5 years old.................Bob


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## Aaron_W (Dec 23, 2018)

Assuming you are not a professional machinist I would suggest you try to find the matching Guide to the handbook. The handbook is meant to be a reference and it assumes you are familiar with the information. The Guide to the handbook explains how to use the handbook and provides more explanation about the material.
You will want to find the Guide to the same edition handbook you buy since they are linked referencing page numbers and such. I have found the guide very helpful.



I bought a 24th edition which is from the early 90s. It is older edition, but not "vintage" so it was priced as just a used book.

My thought was it is new enough to include metric and info on CNC in case I want to explore that later, but it doesn't assume CNC and metric are the default. It also seems to be easier to find the matching Guide to the handbook on the more recent editions.
I think the same logic would apply to any of the editions from the 1980s-90s.


I later bought a 14th edition, that was sold with the 14th edition guide. The 14th edition is from the early 1950s so it includes some older information dropped from the more recent editions. It specifically includes material on blacksmithing and forging that has largely been dropped from the handbook since the 1970s. I'm not doing any blacksmithing / forging right now but thought it would be nice to have that information available in case I decide I'd like to. The price was reasonable and it was a matched set with the guide.


There was a website that gave a good breakdown to the contents of the handbook by edition, but unfortunately it seems to be down. The late 1940s / early 1950s editions seem to be a sweet spot for collecting the older techniques and technology. Late enough to capture the developments in metallurgy and tooling of early 20th century, but old enough that these techniques were not yet considered obsolete.


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## benmychree (Dec 23, 2018)

I bought a 17th edition when I began my apprenticeship; it was on the list of required textbooks for our night classes; it is the only handbook that I will need for the rest of my life, so far as shop work is concerned.  Some of the older generation that I knew had and used the American Machinist's Handbook; if you worked in a locomotive shop back in the 1930s or '40s, it would be a good choice too.


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## Bob Korves (Dec 23, 2018)

I have a 22nd edition, 1985, and it works fine for me.  It covers the early NC machines, which were just becoming more popular in industry at that time.  On a whim, I also bought a brand new reprint of the 1st edition (1914) for really cheap, under $20 as I remember.  The first edition is a really interesting read, and goes more in to depth on things like heat treating, steel making, and other subjects.  The most amazing thing about the first edition is how savvy machinists were in those days.  We are not so "advanced" as we sometimes think.


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## benmychree (Dec 23, 2018)

Bob Korves said:


> I have a 22nd edition, 1985, and it works fine for me.  It covers the early NC machines, which were just becoming more popular in industry at that time.  On a whim, I also bought a brand new reprint of the 1st edition (1914) for really cheap, under $20 as I remember.  The first edition is a really interesting read, and goes more in to depth on things like heat treating, steel making, and other subjects.  The most amazing thing about the first edition is how savvy machinists were in those days.  We are not so "advanced" as we sometimes think.


Amen to that, Bob!


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## PHPaul (Dec 23, 2018)

Thanks for all the input!

I'll start looking for a 40's/50's edition and a suitable guide to go with.


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## Tozguy (Dec 23, 2018)

This is what I have been using and have found everything I need in a practical sized book.
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ma...ket-companion-christopher-mccauley/1125145438


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## MarkMcC (Dec 23, 2018)

Regarding the pdf format being available for free, it is indeed and is referenced in an ealier post to this thread. The $5.99 Ebay offering sounds pretty fishy to me as it can be obtained for free. If you have the storage room on your device, get the free pdf by all means.
That being said, the pdf version is Very cumbersome to use due to its sheer volume and indexing can be a real pain in the neck. I have it on good authority that Santa (or the wife) is buying me a large print hardcopy version, so that will be nice. I’ll keep the pdf though. 
Mark


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## P. Waller (Dec 23, 2018)

Virtually all of the data that you will ever need is available on the interweb or free.
I have a 24th edition that was purchased new in the early 90's.
I haven't opened it in 10 years or more, make a good pitch and I may give it to you for the cost of shipping (-:

I have given unused tools to a number of members here in the past.


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## kvt (Dec 23, 2018)

how about the electronic thing next to it.  I can make a case for that. since most of the stuff is on the internet.   Wish Santa would bring me one for the shop.


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## P. Waller (Dec 23, 2018)

kvt said:


> how about the electronic thing next to it.  I can make a case for that. since most of the stuff is on the internet.   Wish Santa would bring me one for the shop.


$230.00 Samsung Chromebook which is excellent for searching the web for data, when it gets broken, and it will in a machine shop just replace it, this is not like destroying a $5000.00 desk top work station (-:
I recall that when I bought the MH new in 1992 it cost $150.00 or so. In todays dollars that would buy a nice laptop.


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## PHPaul (Dec 23, 2018)

@P. Waller - Very generous of you, Sir!

I'm not even sure I NEED such a thing as I don't know what's in it.  I'm sort of going on the premise that there's no such thing as too much information.

Perhaps I could send you the money for shipping and take the opportunity to look it over.  If I find it's Too Much of a Good Thing, I would either return it to you, or "pay it forward" by passing it to someone else in need on the same terms.

Does that seem reasonable?


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## Technical Ted (Dec 23, 2018)

Over time, most that get addicted to this hobby will build a small, or sometimes big, library of reference books. I've got a bunch including 3 different versions of the MH. I probably use my Engineer's Black Book https://www.engineersblackbook.com/ the most while working in my shop. I have the first edition. It has most of the information I need while working and the pages wipe off easily if you get oil, etc. on them.

But, I also wouldn't be without my MHs. They come in handy for me when I'm doing more design type work. I also have it in PDF format, but use the books the most. Are they necessary with all the info that's available on line? Nope, but they have come to be my "bible" in the machining world.

Ted


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## P. Waller (Dec 23, 2018)

MH is mostly tables of data, the machine screw thread dimensions and limits for example.
They look like this, a quick google search found this.
http://www.nashua.edu/paradisem1/Machinery's Handbook 27th/27_Thread_09A.pdf

Or lock washers
http://www.kanebridge.com/intranet/refguide/washer.pdf

Sine Cosine and Tangent tables
http://www.unionmillwright.com/2885.pdf

Bearings
http://www.nashua.edu/paradisem1/Machinery's Handbook 27th/27_Mach_11A.pdf

1400 pages of such data. All of it published and available on that WWW Thingy.


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## jdedmon91 (Dec 23, 2018)

I went on eBay and got one of the early versions of the MH. However I find the Machinery’s Black Book is just as handy for the most common information. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## P. Waller (Dec 23, 2018)

PHPaul said:


> @P. Waller - Very generous of you, Sir!
> 
> I'm not even sure I NEED such a thing as I don't know what's in it.  I'm sort of going on the premise that there's no such thing as too much information.
> 
> ...


Works for me, PM an address.
I have been paring down the tools that I never use over the last several years, I am not a collector and try not to keep things that have been unused for decades.

Sent from my Turboencabulator 9000 using Gabbletalk™


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## Aaron_W (Dec 23, 2018)

jdedmon91 said:


> I went on eBay and got one of the early versions of the MH. However I find the Machinery’s Black Book is just as handy for the most common information.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




Very true, I've used the black book more than the MH. Then again to P. Waller's comment I've used the threading chart I printed from Google and stuck on the wall more than either. Still it is nice to have all the info in the MH on hand and available, plus it gives me something to read by lantern light when the power goes out.


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## Dabbler (Dec 23, 2018)

I bought a recent MH from a guy who was getting out of machining.  I have used it twice, but it saved me a lot of searching for the obscure info I needed.  So I'm all for using www.  I for the MH.  I'm for Tom Lipton's books.  All of them have great stuff that will help!


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## Technical Ted (Dec 23, 2018)

Dabbler said:


> I'm for Tom Lipton's books.



Ha! I watch his YouTube videos... I didn't know he was also an author!

Ted


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## Dabbler (Dec 24, 2018)

He's written 2 books.  "Metalworking - Doing it better" and "Metaworking Sink or Swim"


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## NortonDommi (Dec 24, 2018)

projectnut said:


> I found I needed a number of different editions due to the type of repair and reconstruction work I do. I deal a lot with older obsolete fasteners and machine parts.


  I love the challenge of identifying a thread in some old piece of machinery.  I find that knowing what a thing is or where it came from is a big help also being aware that some standards have come and gone and some were industry specific.  Admiralty Threads, Cycle threads etc.
  Up here we have some wonderful old stuff from all over the world, No where near what those fellows on the other side of the ditch have but enough to keep things interesting.
  Attached is a thread chart that has helped me on a number of occasions.  It may be of interest.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Dec 24, 2018)

That is very interesting. People don't realize industrial standards were British before the first world war. That why you get  German Mauser rifles with Whitworth threads. And American Stanley planes with odd threads. Those threads were once , in 1860, a British standard. Now I guess we will have to, chuckle, get use to some Chinese standard. Don't flame me, it's a joke.


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## projectnut (Dec 24, 2018)

Over the years "threaded" parts have also been a way to make replacement parts unique enough that the original manufacturer is the only supplier.  It was quite common in the lathe 19th and early 20th century for machine tool manufacturers to use "proprietary' threads to corner the replacement parts market.  Even today it's done in the agricultural industry.  If I recall correctly Kubota uses proprietary threads on hydraulic couplings.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Dec 24, 2018)

I worked with one partner, the best millwright I've ever worked with, who was really into his work, he knew the bearing company histories and thread histories. He talked of John Deere threads on old tractors, but his take was that the standards just weren't there, they predated them. Each company then used their own.  But I was never that dedicated. A Yammar might have the same couplings. Hydraulic fittings  have a few standards, I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese have a few as well.

When we come across a odd thread, we think it's proprietary, it might not always be the case. The Stanley plane is one I'm somewhat familiar with, as restoring old planes is an hobby. You don't dare lose screws.  Another guy with the same disease , researched the thread use. Stanley planes were an 1860s invention and Stanley Works was notoriously cheap , so it made economic  sense to use off the shelf.  A 1860 British standard !


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## P. Waller (Dec 24, 2018)

Because I am not a particularly nice person I have made non standard threaded parts in the past just to screw with people in the future.
I have stopped such childish behavior in the last few decades.
I suspect that there is someone right now trying to measure some of the 3/4"-17 TPI threads on parts that I made years ago for lathe fixtures and jigs.
This will be a learning experience (-:


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## mmcmdl (Jan 12, 2019)

P. Waller said:


> Because I am not a particularly nice person I have made non standard threaded parts in the past just to screw with people in the future.
> I have stopped such childish behavior in the last few decades.
> I suspect that there is someone right now trying to measure some of the 3/4"-17 TPI threads on parts that I made years ago for lathe fixtures and jigs.
> This will be a learning experience (-:


  I always made sure I was sole source provider


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## Dabbler (Jan 13, 2019)

... job security? ...  

I'm usually they guy who follows, and has to cope!


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## mmcmdl (Jan 13, 2019)

Gubmint ! Engineers come up with all kinds of crazy things to keep you on your toes .


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## BROCKWOOD (Jan 13, 2019)

Since I'm into Musclecars, I went with the 19th or 1971 version in large print. Seems the Op has a copy donated by now! Others can get in on ABom79's drawing for a free copy. Just look him up on YouTube to find how to enter.


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## Bi11Hudson (Jan 13, 2019)

Quote:
Because I am not a particularly nice person I have made non standard threaded parts in the past just to screw with people in the future.
I have stopped such childish behavior in the last few decades.
I suspect that there is someone right now trying to measure some of the 3/4"-17 TPI threads on parts that I made years ago for lathe fixtures and jigs.
This will be a learning experience (-: 
-       -       -       -       -       -       -       -       -       -       -       -       -       -       -       -       -       -       -
I've done the same thing, usually just Left Hand Thread, on electrical equipment. Not so much as a "**** up factor" as to cause someone to *pay attention* to what they were doing.


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## BROCKWOOD (Jan 13, 2019)

Which of you did the bolts for the Ford Y block 1953 - 1964????? That's just wrong.


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## BigWalt (Feb 23, 2019)

Im new to this Game as well and came across this book 

engineers blackbook


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## NortonDommi (Feb 24, 2019)

BigWalt said:


> engineers blackbook


  A good handy reference, did you get the drill gauge that comes with it?


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## BigWalt (Feb 24, 2019)

NortonDommi said:


> A good handy reference, did you get the drill gauge that comes with it?



Well, Like i said im new to this game as well, I just ordered the book haven't received it Yet!


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## pstemari (Feb 24, 2019)

Dunno, I find the Engineer's Black Book to be a bit scatterwit in how it's organized. It's also missing some of the info on basic design factors, like allowances for wrenches on bolt heads or how deep to make a countersink.

I'd love a CAD tool that had that info baked into it, along with a fastener library.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## BROCKWOOD (Feb 24, 2019)

I have both Machinery's & Black books. You can only condense so much into a pocket book. I typically refer to the Black & if I need more info, bump up to the bible.

pstemari has a million dollar idea!


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## BigWalt (Feb 24, 2019)

They also publish a Fastener Black book as well not sure if this has information you asking about!


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## BigWalt (Feb 24, 2019)

__





						Metric Thread Sizes
					

The Fastener Black Book contains Metric Thread Sizes, Metric Thread Dimensions, Hex Bolt Dimensions, Fastener Torque Specifications, Fastener Identification and much more.




					www.fastenerblackbook.com


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## Winegrower (Feb 25, 2019)

I have an old edition that was my father’s.  I used it just a few days ago to look up some info on press fits.   Wow, it was terrific, helped me to figure out just what kind of press fit I wanted, torque characteristics, etc.
I don’t generally keep a computer, laptop or tablet in the shop...too oily and greasy.   I go in the lab for that.


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## BROCKWOOD (Feb 25, 2019)

Wine grower wrote: "....I don’t generally keep a computer, laptop or tablet in the shop...too oily and greasy.   I go in the lab for that."

Same here. Take a copy of your notes, drawing, schematic to the shop. Do what you can with that. My clipboards rotate between the shop & desk. Lab?  I like that term!


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## BigWalt (Feb 27, 2019)

NortonDommi said:


> A good handy reference, did you get the drill gauge that comes with it?



I received my Black book today No drill cage!


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## NortonDommi (Feb 28, 2019)

BigWalt said:


> I received my Black book today No drill cage!


  Well that's not good!  I just looked in the latest 'The Shed' magazine and noticed that it is no longer advertised as coming with a free drill Gauge.  Perhaps they have run out or there is some stupid shipping regulation?
  Regardless the book is a handy reference and built to last.


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## BigWalt (Feb 28, 2019)

NortonDommi said:


> Well that's not good!  I just looked in the latest 'The Shed' magazine and noticed that it is no longer advertised as coming with a free drill Gauge.  Perhaps they have run out or there is some stupid shipping regulation?
> Regardless the book is a handy reference and built to last.




Norton
Its all good I sent them an email they still have the drills gages they just sell them seperate now.  Im happy with the  books
I will tell you this, they have the best customer support that I've ever seen!   I will be purchasing more books from them shortly.

Anybody looking for short nice book about Machinist information or intro to it this is good deal I suggest it to anybody!


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