# Heavy 10 with D1-3 spindle ???



## internationalgeo (Jul 8, 2020)

! was wondering if anyone can help I know the head stock spindle have a special taper but mine seems to be a odd mark having a 
D1-3 spindle with a 1.1/4" through hole I can  only find parts list with D1-4 spindle so was wondering if as it is a odd mark spindle
is there any one out there that has got the same spindle can tell me if the head stock spindle has special taper or a normal morse
taper the spindle is definitely a D1-3 as the faceplate that came with it is a D1-4 and does not fit the spindle


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## Ulma Doctor (Jul 8, 2020)

SB’s were made to many different specifications.
Rare as it may be , it doesn’t surprise me to see a D1-3 spindle


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## Boris Ludwig (Jul 8, 2020)

Unusual, I have a Southbend SG 26-075 and it has a D1-4 and I haven't heard of a SB with a D1-3. It looks like it been recently refurbished so perhaps the 1-3 has been added in the upgrade.


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## internationalgeo (Jul 9, 2020)

Boris Ludwig said:


> Unusual, I have a Southbend SG 26-075 and it has a D1-4 and I haven't heard of a SB with a D1-3. It looks like it been recently refurbished so perhaps the 1-3 has been added in the upgrade.


 I refurbished myself it was for the air force serial no 4782 RKX 12 so perhaps they ordered it to match other equipment has your spindle got a special taper or is it a 
Morse taper


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## Boris Ludwig (Jul 9, 2020)

Ok, mine has a internal taper of ~ .602 per foot which corresponds to a MT3 slope but bigger than an MT3. I found it to be the same as the taper on a SB heavy 10.


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## Boris Ludwig (Jul 9, 2020)

Check this SB spec sheet for some clues. You might find some details of taper but nothing about nose cone except threaded.


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## SLK001 (Jul 9, 2020)

internationalgeo said:


> ...it was for the air force serial no 4782 RKX 12...



Your serial number puts the lathe in the early '50's time frame (also the bench and the clutch knob).  This was before SB offered any kind of D-# head.  Do you have a wide range gearbox (ie, 70 positions)?

The "X" in your serial number signifies a "special", meaning that it deviates from the normal Heavy 10 offerings.  Aside from the attachment scheme, your spindle looks like a normal H10.  It is possible that the spindle was special ordered at a later date, or even at the original purchase date. but the only way to know for sure is to purchase the lathe card from SB.


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## internationalgeo (Jul 9, 2020)

SLK001 said:


> Your serial number puts the lathe in the early '50's time frame (also the bench and the clutch knob).  This was before SB offered any kind of D-# head.  Do you have a wide range gearbox (ie, 70 positions)?
> 
> The "X" in your serial number signifies a "special", meaning that it deviates from the normal Heavy 10 offerings.  Aside from the attachment scheme, your spindle looks like a normal H10.  It is possible that the spindle was special ordered at a later date, or even at the original purchase date. but the only way to know for sure is to purchase the lathe card from SB.


Yes has the wide range gearbox with 4 screw fixture

Stamp on bed DDB 106R            
4782 RKX 12

CAT No  CC 9010 AB

Extra tag on Bed
FED Spec  00L-125
Order No CONT-AF33-600-9087
Stock No 8100-442000
South Bend Lathe Works
US Property

Property USAF  700309


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## internationalgeo (Jul 9, 2020)

Boris Ludwig said:


> Ok, mine has a internal taper of ~ .602 per foot which corresponds to a MT3 slope but bigger than an MT3. I found it to be the same as the taper on a SB heavy 10.
> 
> View attachment 329843
> 
> ...


Thanks I will check the measurements tomorrow


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## internationalgeo (Jul 9, 2020)

Boris Ludwig said:


> Check this SB spec sheet for some clues. You might find some details of taper but nothing about nose cone except threaded.
> 
> View attachment 329845


Thanks I will check and see


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## Canuck75 (Jul 9, 2020)

I have a 1963 10" SB toolroom lathe with a 2-1/4"-8 TPI spindle. Always wanted a D-? spindle nose but just not cost-worthy for me to convert. The original brochure indicates a D-1 4" was available, but not a D-1 3.
Surfing the thread "Show us your South Bend Lathe, page 5", in this Forum, a H-M member "WeldingRod1" posted a conversion of a 10" SB to a D-1 3 spindle back in Dec 2, 2012.
I asked for more information but never got an answer.
Might be of interest to you.

Canuck75


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## internationalgeo (Jul 9, 2020)

Canuck75 said:


> I have a 1963 10" SB toolroom lathe with a 2-1/4"-8 TPI spindle. Always wanted a D-? spindle nose but just not cost-worthy for me to convert. The original brochure indicates a D-1 4" was available, but not a D-1 3.
> Surfing the thread "Show us your South Bend Lathe, page 5", in this Forum, a H-M member "WeldingRod1" posted a conversion of a 10" SB to a D-1 3 spindle back in Dec 2, 2012.
> I asked for more information but never got an answer.
> Might be of interest to you.
> ...


Thanks  i try to look up still trying to find my way around the site


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## internationalgeo (Jul 11, 2020)

Boris Ludwig said:


> Ok, mine has a internal taper of ~ .602 per foot which corresponds to a MT3 slope but bigger than an MT3. I found it to be the same as the taper on a SB heavy 10.
> 
> View attachment 329843
> 
> ...


measured my spindle


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## internationalgeo (Jul 11, 2020)

Boris Ludwig said:


> Ok, mine has a internal taper of ~ .602 per foot which corresponds to a MT3 slope but bigger than an MT3. I found it to be the same as the taper on a SB heavy 10.
> 
> View attachment 329843
> 
> ...


Measured my spindle different to yours 1.50" chuck end 1.25" other end


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## SLK001 (Jul 11, 2020)

When I posted my above reply, I thought that post #5 was yours.  I see now that it was not.

The dimensions that you show indicate that your spindle is NOT a South Bend spindle.  That makes your lathe a "frankenlathe".  A true SB spindle should have a thru hole of ~1.40" and the mouth opens to ~1.628", with the internal taper at 0.602" per foot.  That taper is the same as a MT#3, but the size is larger.

I have no idea where a spindle like yours could have come from.


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## internationalgeo (Jul 11, 2020)

SLK001 said:


> When I posted my above reply, I thought that post #5 was yours.  I see now that it was not.
> 
> The dimensions that you show indicate that your spindle is NOT a South Bend spindle.  That makes your lathe a "frankenlathe".  A true SB spindle should have a thru hole of ~1.40" and the mouth opens to ~1.628", with the internal taper at 0.602" per foot.  That taper is the same as a MT#3, but the size is larger.
> 
> I have no idea where a spindle like yours could have come from.


yes a bit of a puzzle thats why i was wondering if it might be a normal morse taper


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## Boris Ludwig (Jul 12, 2020)

Here are a few taper dimensions for you to check.It is obviously bigger than a No 4MT.

View attachment 139306


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## ShagDog (Jul 12, 2020)

Boris Ludwig said:


> Ok, mine has a internal taper of ~ .602 per foot which corresponds to a MT3 slope but bigger than an MT3. I found it to be the same as the taper on a SB heavy 10.


 (Pictures not quoted)

Boris, please tell me the model of your lathe. the reason I ask is I recently purchased a Taiwan late 1970's or early 80's lathe (Select 816b) that has some similarities in appearance to the parts in the photos you attached, and I have read that it may be similar in appearance to a South Bend. I have no manual for it, and I was hoping to find something similar, clone like. Need to learn more about mine.


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## internationalgeo (Jul 12, 2020)

Boris Ludwig said:


> Here are a few taper dimensions for you to check.It is obviously bigger than a No 4MT.
> 
> View attachment 139306


thanks for that looks like 4.5 mt or 5mt could do it I have up to 4 mt so I know they dont fit but dont want to buy the 4.5 mt or 5mt  to find out they dont fit and then cant send them back I will have to try and borrow them and try


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## internationalgeo (Jul 12, 2020)

ShagDog said:


> (Pictures not quoted)
> 
> Boris, please tell me the model of your lathe. the reason I ask is I recently purchased a Taiwan late 1970's or early 80's lathe (Select 816b) that has some similarities in appearance to the parts in the photos you attached, and I have read that it may be similar in appearance to a South Bend. I have no manual for it, and I was hoping to find something similar, clone like. Need to learn more about mine.


South Bend Heavy 10    1952/3 year
sorry just notice you ment Boris


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## Ulma Doctor (Jul 12, 2020)

my 1939 SB 11" lathe has a 4.5 MT taper.

i'm very certain that any of the armed services or laboratories could have ordered a South Bend lathe equipped with a D1-3 spindle.
South Bend would have accommodated any of the above for a fee


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## SLK001 (Jul 12, 2020)

Ulma Doctor said:


> i'm very certain that any of the armed services or laboratories could have ordered a South Bend lathe equipped with a D1-3 spindle.
> South Bend would have accommodated any of the above for a fee



It's possible, but I doubt that is what happened.  If they had, they would have maintained the other dimensions of the spindle, like the bore and the proprietary taper.  That way, the other accessories that they sold for that lathe would also fit the non-standard spindle head (like collet closer assemblies and adapters).  It would be interesting to see the original lathe card (but not so interesting as to shell out the $25 to get it).


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## internationalgeo (Jul 13, 2020)

SLK001 said:


> It's possible, but I doubt that is what happened.  If they had, they would have maintained the other dimensions of the spindle, like the bore and the proprietary taper.  That way, the other accessories that they sold for that lathe would also fit the non-standard spindle head (like collet closer assemblies and adapters).  It would be interesting to see the original lathe card (but not so interesting as to shell out the $25 to get it).


So if it not a south bend spindle where did the spindle come from it has got to be off another lathe so what lathes use the same spindle set up
it would not be a one off. i think if it was off another make of lathe someone out there would have found out by now and would have been telling people that a spindle off a so and so lathe will fit a South Bend or a South Bend spindle fits a so and so lathe.
Room for thought ?


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## SLK001 (Jul 13, 2020)

What is the diameter of your spindle at the cam locks?  A D1-4 is ~ 117mm and a D1-3 is ~ 92mm.  They both have three camlock pins.

As far as I can tell, South Bend never offered a D1-3 spindle for their lathes.  It was too small for their larger lathes (10" and above) and not even offered for their smaller lathes.  It's possible the your spindle was a lathe project for a new machine operator.  As for coming off another brand lathe, I don't know enough about other lathes to hazard a guess.


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## internationalgeo (Jul 13, 2020)

SLK001 said:


> What is the diameter of your spindle at the cam locks?  A D1-4 is ~ 117mm and a D1-3 is ~ 92mm.  They both have three camlock pins.
> 
> As far as I can tell, South Bend never offered a D1-3 spindle for their lathes.  It was too small for their larger lathes (10" and above) and not even offered for their smaller lathes.  It's possible the your spindle was a lathe project for a new machine operator.  As for coming off another brand lathe, I don't know enough about other lathes to hazard a guess.


will look in the morning


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## Boris Ludwig (Jul 13, 2020)

ShagDog said:


> (Pictures not quoted)
> 
> Boris, please tell me the model of your lathe. the reason I ask is I recently purchased a Taiwan late 1970's or early 80's lathe (Select 816b) that has some similarities in appearance to the parts in the photos you attached, and I have read that it may be similar in appearance to a South Bend. I have no manual for it, and I was hoping to find something similar, clone like. Need to learn more about mine.



Shaq,

My lathe is an Australian made lathe by the company FW HERCUS who made the GS26-075 Southbend lathe for the US market for Southbend lathe works. From the serial # it's a very late issue and Mal from AMH  believes it was assembled from inventory parts in Australia. It is badged with Hercus 260.  If you want to see some of its details go to this thread HERE. Having said that, the Hercus 260 lathe isn't anything like Taiwanese gear.  

I'm not going to post more details as this thread belongs to Internationalgeo and I don't want to distract from the intriguing mystery of the D 1-3 spindle.


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## Boris Ludwig (Jul 13, 2020)

internationalgeo said:


> thanks for that looks like 4.5 mt or 5mt could do it I have up to 4 mt so I know they dont fit but dont want to buy the 4.5 mt or 5mt  to find out they dont fit and then cant send them back I will have to try and borrow them and try



I'd guess 5MT will be too big.


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## internationalgeo (Jul 14, 2020)

internationalgeo said:


> will look in the morning


measured  and 92mm so D1-3


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## internationalgeo (Jul 17, 2020)

Boris Ludwig said:


> I'd guess 5MT will be too big.


someone brought a mt 4 and mt 5  round to try 5 was to big 4 was to small 
trying to locate mt 4.1/2 hard to get over here


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