# Spray Or Brush Paint A Machine?



## hkv

What is the expert recommendations when restoring an old mill or lathe. Some people say brush paint is the preferred choice whereas I see other spray. 

Looking at my old machines, I find the coat of paint to be very thick. It is almost like an enamel and (based on my limited experience) would be hard to get with spray paint unless you spray it 20 times. 

I would like to hear your thinking


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## randyjaco

I spray all my restorations with Rustoleum. They look nice and be quickly retouched with a rattle can.
I only use a brush on extremely rough surfaces. I just don't like everyone the look of a brush painted smooth surface. 
Randy


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## kd4gij

As you noted brush on paint gives a muck heaver coat than spraying. It comes down to personnel preference; A good machine paint well flow out nice and you wont se any brush marks.


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## Jprato

The best results come from proper surface preparation and spraying. That said, how much time do you want to spend on the job. If you just want it to look better than it is and have a couple of hours to spend you can do a quality brush paint job. You say you are restoring a machine, so I assume it all apart. That might be time to invest in a quality spray job.  

Here is a picture of my lathe with a Saturday afternoon rustoleum brush paint job. I used 1 1/2" cut in brush and a small model brush for getting around tight areas. I did follow it up with another coat on Sunday


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## silence dogood

I use "equipment & implement enamel" made by "Auto Body Master".  The ranchers and farmers out here use it on their combines and other machinery.  It is suppose to resist gasoline and oil.  Tough stuff.  But, like any paint that you use, prep is the name of the game.


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## Eddyde

hkv said:


> It is almost like an enamel and (based on my limited experience) would be hard to get with spray paint unless you spray it 20 times.


If you're talking rattle can spraying then yes, many coats would be necessary. However if you have a spray gun you could use a high performance coating like a catalyzed urethane, That would build fast and be very durable.


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## Dan_S

silence dogood said:


> I use "equipment & implement enamel" made by "Auto Body Master".  The ranchers and farmers out here use it on their combines and other machinery.  It is suppose to resist gasoline and oil.  Tough stuff.  But, like any paint that you use, prep is the name of the game.



I've used similar stuff from Valspar.
http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/678390-valspar-aerosol-anti-rust-oil-based-enamel.html
http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/777146-valspar-tractor-and-implement-enamel-spray.html

for small projects I just buy it in spray cans, for larger projects I but a quart and thin it so I can spray it through my hvlp system. like you said, once it's fully cured it's pretty bullet proof.

I used it to paint these benches.
http://www.dans-hobbies.com/2009/06/02/finally-finished-kind-of/


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## TOOLMASTER

I use brush on hammer finish from rustoleum. covers everything nicely. touches up easy


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## TommyD

I have always used grey enamel porch and floor enamel, seriously. We had a ton of it kicking around where I worked and I used it on the machines I'd have to take apart and fix. Dries hard as a rock and as smooth as a baby's bottom, no brush marks what so ever.They were getting rid of 6 gallons and I gladly took it off their hands and use it on my home stuff.


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## randyjaco

kd4gij said:


> As you noted brush on paint gives a muck heaver coat than spraying. It comes down to personnel preference; A good machine paint well flow out nice and you wont se any brush marks.



I will have to say, that is a superb brush job! Mine don't come out looking that way 8^)
Randy


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## chips&more

Paint from a rattle can often leaves me less than pleased. The best rattle can paint that I have found that goes on thick and smooth is the 2X stuff. It’s not perfect but works…Dave.


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## kd4gij

For spray cans Rustoleum hammertone Does a good job. And is durable. It is a textured paint and hides a lot of stuff.


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## rakort

Where I am at on this........for sure use a good quality brush on oil base enamel.  Don't be in a hurry...it will flow out and look good, but actually take weeks to cure.  Sure you can handle pieces in a day or so, but they will get marked up and scratched easily.  As time goes on the paint becomes more durable.  I do rattle can a few things it just depends, but the bulk of that machine gets a heavy coat of oil based enamel. My 10k lathe is holding up great after umm some 20 years ago of being painted.  When you are done after a day or so, take a razor blade and clean up all the surfaces that weren't meant to be painted.  With that said ... someone also said it as well....prep is everything in a paint  job


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## uncle harry

Dan_S said:


> I've used similar stuff from Valspar.
> http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/678390-valspar-aerosol-anti-rust-oil-based-enamel.html
> http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/777146-valspar-tractor-and-implement-enamel-spray.html
> 
> for small projects I just buy it in spray cans, for larger projects I but a quart and thin it so I can spray it through my hvlp system. like you said, once it's fully cured it's pretty bullet proof.
> 
> I used it to paint these benches.
> http://www.dans-hobbies.com/2009/06/02/finally-finished-kind-of/



I also like the Valspar enamel from Farm & Fleet.  I recently sprayed a Harrison back splash for use behind my South Bend 9A.  I used a "Harbor Frought" gravity feed gun at 90 psi & used the paint directly from the package. I got great coverage & just enough orange peel to provide hiding of slight rust pitting after prep. I chose Ford tractor grey for a pleasing off-white finish.


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## astjp2

I am a tool snob, its either brush or spray a good 2 part epoxy or urethane, I wont even waste my time with a rattle can for a durable finish.....Tim

I have had excellent results with the PPG aquapon 35, its a chemical resistant epoxy that is durable if you get a good primer under it.  Tim


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## frank r

Another option is to roll with a short foam roller. I bought a gallon of Sher-Kem enamel to paint a Mill Rite mill. I rolled one coat of that paint on and covered 99% of the machine. It took me about 1 hour to do the whole base, cabinet and column. I was impressed; talk about "one-coat coverage".  I put on another coat later for good measure. Touching up with a brush took care of the other 1%.

However, I use both spray and brush when I feel like it. Getting inside some surfaces is easiest with a spray can. Brushed and rolled paint is thicker though.


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## Bill C.

I used to spray weldments years ago. I also touched up paint on machines with a brush too.  Be sure to follow paint manufacture's instructions on thinning their paint.  A body shop painter told me years ago if you spray paint carry a small paint brush so if you see runs they can be brushed out while the paint is wet.   

In either case use a lot of ventilation and old clothes or coveralls.  Good luck, would like to see photos of your finished project.


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## pepi

astjp2 said:


> I am a tool snob, its either brush or spray a good 2 part epoxy or urethane, I wont even waste my time with a rattle can for a durable finish.....Tim
> 
> I have had excellent results with the PPG aquapon 35, its a chemical resistant epoxy that is durable if you get a good primer under it.  Tim




I never knew one could brush paint a two part paint, going to check that out for sure. Good tip


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## Eddyde

pepi said:


> I never knew one could brush paint a two part paint, going to check that out for sure. Good tip


You can brush catalyzed paints, the only problem is some of them have very short pot life like 20-30 minutes, you could easily spray a coat on a machine in that time but you wouldnt get too far with a brush.


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## j_zuilkowski

I brush painted my walker turner drill rebuild.  While it came out ok, I was not pleased for the amount of effort.  I used sherwin williams alkyd.  For my delta wood lathe restore, I bought a campbel hausfeld hvlp gun kit from walmart and shot it with rustoleum smoke grey.  It came out an order of magnitude better, you can see your reflection in it.

I also used the hardener from tractor supply, so it hardened in about a day.   For the lathe, I also thinned the pain with acetone so that the paint would flash quicker, allowing a heavier coat without runs.  Careful with that stuff, it's poisonous


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## Primitive_Pete

I use magic Tractor paint from Tractor supply. The hardener is extra then I put it on with foam brushes. take a bit to dry but looks great even fills in pits in the cast metal.


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## pepi

Nice one I will try to remember this, on second thought I will c&p it,  put into a file I have with snippets like this. It is amazing what can be learned over on the net.. You mix it, what is the ratio, or you are painting the hardener over the color or base coat as if were a second coat?  


Thank you...


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## Primitive_Pete

You mix it 1/2 pint per 1 gallon of paint or 8:1 It gives you about 8 hours pot life on cool day and makes the paint much harder and little bit shinier


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## Smithdoor

I prefer spray but some time I have to use brush
Note Use good paint that will wear with chips 
I have try  paints only to have to repaint in CA they have band all the good paints today good luck

Dave


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## hkv

Thanks everyone for all your tips and ideas and feedback. I have concluded I will try a high density foam roller and see if I like the result. If not, the HLVP gun will be used, but then I need to wait summer so I can be outside. Too messy

Great experience in this forum!


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk


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## j_zuilkowski

This is the kit I bought - http://www.walmart.com/ip/Campbell-Hausfeld-34-Piece-Spray-Gun-Kit/12534872

After reading several reviews in forums, this looked like a good bet.  I had never used one before, and I went from opening the box to shooting the paint in about an hour.  And the results were far better than I had hoped.

If you use enamel, use the hardener.  Otherwise it will take months to fully cure, especially in the cold.  WEAR A MASK IF YOU DO USE IT


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## astjp2

This is one spray gun that I use, if it gets messed up, throw it away and buy another.  I paint a lot of my toys and projects with it.  Price with shipping was like $27.  Cheaper than Harbor freight. If I am mixin a 2 part paint, I use big syrniges to pull the paint/activator with them and mix.  DP40 has a dwell time of 60 minutes before you spray, so pot life is different from dwell time.   Tim

http://www.grizzly.com/products/HVLP-Mini-Spray-Gun-with-0-8mm-Tip/H8224


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## Glenn Brooks

Another thing to consider is a good undercoat.  The modern paint formulations are a lot different than even a few years ago.  I just painted my old Dalton lathe with rustoleum and a brush- mostly because I already had the paint on hand.  In researching possible other paints I noticed several of the one part urethane called for a metal specific primer on bare surfaces,  then a urethane flat coat.  Over which two layers of finish coat could be applied.  

I did use a marine grade undercoat - from Interlux-  on several parts.  Mostly because the rattle can, high fill automotive primer, dissolved literally in an instant when I hit it with acetone.  Couldn't believe how crummy this automotive stuff is.

The Interlux primer hardly showed any degradation with even a hard acetone scrub with a shop towel.  So I am headed down that path for future jobs.  

Glenn


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## Techie1961

When you guys prepare a machine for paint, what do you do with the old surface? I have a mill that looks pretty rough and some of the paint, and filler underneath, is soft from the coolant and way oil that it has seen in its life. I don't have the time to go over it thoroughly to clean it down to bare and repaint. Will a bit of bondo over the seriously cratered areas stick? Will the paint stick to it?


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## uncle harry

TommyD said:


> I have always used grey enamel porch and floor enamel, seriously. We had a ton of it kicking around where I worked and I used it on the machines I'd have to take apart and fix. Dries hard as a rock and as smooth as a baby's bottom, no brush marks what so ever.They were getting rid of 6 gallons and I gladly took it off their hands and use it on my home stuff.



My dad swore by porch & floor enamel. We painted everything with it including a crane truck.


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## great white

I'm just using a spray on (rattlecan) black hammer tone on my Atlas. It works fine for my use.

A good degreasing if the paint is still in good shape and then respray. For parts that are chipped and flaking, I use aircraft stripper and then degrease and spray.

I'm not overly worried about the durability/layer thickness of the paint, if it chips or wears its an easy touch up.

I use the hammer tone as the surface finish of the Atlas isn't smooth anyways. The hammer tone just works with the surface irregularities.

I just want my old lathe clean and usable. Had the old green paint been in good shape, I probably wouldn't have even bothered to repaint.

It isn't a show queen, but a nice coat of paint makes everything feel just that little bit nicer when you use it.


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## AR1911

I have always sprayed paint. Sometimes automotive paint, later industrial paint, through an HVLP gun. But now I only use Plastikote (Valspar) engine enamel. It is made to spray on bare cast iron, adheres well to aluminum, tolerates chemicals, and has a low-gloss appropriate to machine tools. Over time it has proven durable.   Lately I mostly use #216 New Ford gray.


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## Eddyde

I am thinking about using  bed liner for a machine coating, seems like it would be practically indestructible. Has anyone tried using it that way?


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## AR1911

Ack!  Please don't do that to a nice machine!


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## great white

Eddyde said:


> I am thinking about using  bed liner for a machine coating, seems like it would be practically indestructible. Has anyone tried using it that way?


It adds a fair bit of thickness to parts. I'd take that into account for parts you have to fit back together once coated.

Personally, I wouldn't use it.


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## Eddyde

AR1911 said:


> Ack!  Please don't do that to a nice machine!


I think if done carefully with the right product, one could achieve a reasonably nice finish. It is not only what the machine looks like when you are done painting it that matters, it's also what it looks like a few years later.


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## silence dogood

Techie1961 said:


> When you guys prepare a machine for paint, what do you do with the old surface? I have a mill that looks pretty rough and some of the paint, and filler underneath, is soft from the coolant and way oil that it has seen in its life. I don't have the time to go over it thoroughly to clean it down to bare and repaint. Will a bit of bondo over the seriously cratered areas stick? Will the paint stick to it?


Right now, if you don't have the time to prepare the machine to paint, just do what you have been doing. In other words keep it wiped off and oiled.  You are just wasting your time if you don't  properly prep before you paint.  It does not matter what paint or/and  filler that you use, that paint will not stick well at all to grease, oil, dirt, and whatever.


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## f350ca

Techie1961 said:


> When you guys prepare a machine for paint, what do you do with the old surface? I have a mill that looks pretty rough and some of the paint, and filler underneath, is soft from the coolant and way oil that it has seen in its life. I don't have the time to go over it thoroughly to clean it down to bare and repaint. Will a bit of bondo over the seriously cratered areas stick? Will the paint stick to it?


As said above, unless the surface is TOTALLY oil free paint or bond won't stick. A simple test is to spray the surface with water, if it beads the paint won't stick, if it spreads and wets the entire surface your probably good to go. Wiping a surface with a solvent soaked rag just spreads the oil. I've had the best luck with citrus based water soluble degreasers. Scrub the surface with the solvent then rinse off with water.


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## TommyD

uncle harry said:


> My dad swore by porch & floor enamel. We painted everything with it including a crane truck.



I am using it on a Dake #2 arbor press I'm fixin' up in my gay-raj, alkylid enamel applied after a good scraping off of the old flaking paint with a acetone cleaner. I'm hoping multi coating will smooth out the poor casting on the frame, gawd it is rough. 

I'd attach pictures but for some reason my tablet keeps losing internet connection when I try to attach photos.


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## Morten

Bengalack/Arcanol


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## 63redtudor

+1 on the New Ford Gray engine paint. I used it on the little Crafstman 109 I rebuilt, mainly because I all ready had it on hand. When I rebuilt my grandpa's Sheldon I just continued using it. I like it as dirt and grime show up well, and as an engine paint it holds up against oil pretty well. I have access to a paint booth which helps as well.


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## Glenn Brooks

Just painted my new to me Burke #4 mill with a polyurethane Interlux marine undercoat ( because I had some left over) and a top coat of polyurethane single part Interlux marine top sides in Kingstone Gray ( again had a quart left over).   Degreased and prepped everything with acetone and white shop rags.  Used  a cheap chip brush on both.  The marine top sides paints have a nice levelling agent and flow pretty smoothly.  Didn't like the color so put a second coat on using existing left over custom dark gray-blue rustoleum enamel ( ahaha more left over) that matches my Dalton lathe.  So both machines are properly color coordinated! If only the rest of my shop was in such good shape.

I was going to spray everything, but when I went to buy the spray gun, learned I needed a $200 high capacity air compressor - which made my $30 spray job jump to $350 once all the additional accessories were laid out.  Apparently the small 5- 10 gallon air compressors don't put out enuf air, resulting in blobs of paint being intermittently thrown onto the work, rather than a smooth glossy finish. 

So nixed that, and experimented with a 4" fine cell foam roller for the final top coat.  The foam roller turned out great.  I like it a lot better than brushing.  Almost as good as spraying and a much better than brushing.  No  steaks or brush marks anywhere.  So never going back to brushs for refurbishing machine tools again.  Maybe when I find a decent second hand high capacity air compressor I might consider spray painting again - but for now, a $10 package of foam rollers does a fantastic job.


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