# Leveling a benchtop lathe 10x30



## Creativechipper (Jul 16, 2018)

Totally new to machining here.

 Managed to get the lathe through the gravel driveway and in the house up on my work bench. No small feat here, felt like a pyramid builder.

 I see now I am going to need to shim and level this thing. Looks like bring engine puller back in to lift up to get some feeler gauge pcs under it.

 Knowing I am not the 1st to do this, I am asking for any tips and tricks.

 What's next after leveling this? 

Thanks, so much to do and learn and buy before my 1st cut..lol


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## RJSakowski (Jul 16, 2018)

You shouldn't need the engine hoist.  Apry bar for a lever with a suitable fulcrum should do the trick.  After leveling as best you can, you will want to check to see if it is turning a taper.  There are two ways to do this.  
The first is the two collar method which involves chucking up a stout bar. minimum 1" diameter and turning down a section near the chuck and one at the far end. This is usually done with the cross feed locked or at least unchanged.  To facilitate this, the section between the two collars is usually undercut, so you have sort of a dumbbell shape.  This allows you to make the two cuts on the test sections without touching the area between. On a properly aligned lathe, the two collars will have identical diameters.
The second is known as "Rollie's Dad's Method and involves making measurements of a round bar near the tailstock and at the far end.  The bar should be round and ideally a uniform diameter although the latter isn't necessary, it just makes the calculations easier.  The bar needen't be straight as the measurement method compensates for any runout.
The measurement technique consists of mounting a test indicator or dial indicator to the cross slide so that the indicator is in contact with the test area.  The spindle is rotated and the maximum and minimum reads are recorded at each test area.  The average of the two readings at each rest area will be identical in a properly aligned lathe.
Detailed descriptions of these methods are discussed elsewhere in the and other forums.
The RDM method can be used to check vertical alignment as  well.  
A final bit of alignment would be to align the tailstock center with a spindle mounted center.The two methods for checking taper can also be used for aligning the tailstock.  The difference being that a spindle center, face plate, and lathe dog are used to drive the bar and the tailstock end has been drilled for the tailstock center.  The bar is mounted between the two centers and either turned for the first methid or measured in the second method and the tailstock is adjusted for identical reads on either end.


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## Creativechipper (Jul 16, 2018)

Thank you so much for the detailed write up.

  I skipped right past pry bar in my mind and raced towards an imaginary mini jack. Then the closest thing I have is the engine puller. 

 I have read about a machinist level vs a carpenters level. Any insight on what to do without one or is this basically a requirement?


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## Dave Paine (Jul 17, 2018)

Creativechipper said:


> I have read about a machinist level vs a carpenters level. Any insight on what to do without one or is this basically a requirement?



RJs post above states some of the methods to check the machine level.   These can be use in lieu of a machinist level, just takes longer due to iterations of shimming, machining, checking measurements, etc.

An import machinist level is not too expensive and a good item to have in the shop.

8in machinist level at Shars


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## RJSakowski (Jul 17, 2018)

The Starrett 98 Series machinist level has a sensitivity of .005"/ft.  Their 199 Series , .0005"/ft. The inspection grade Empire digital level claims .01º translates to .002"/ft. but whether this is truly achievable is questionable.  Aside from sensitivity of the vial, the accuracy of the machined surface enters in.  A carpenters level often has an extruded or, at best, milled surface.

A carpenter's level has about 10% of the sensitivity of the  98 Series level. A barely noticeable deflection of my carpenter's level puts my .0006"/ft. machinists level off scale.

Nonetheless, I would start by leveling the lathe.  A lathe can have a twisted headstock and attempting to correct this by twisting the bed will result in a corkscrewed lathe.  Truly, two wrongs don't make a right.

I would first level the lathe to the best of my ability.  With care, even a carpenter's level should get you within .01"/ft.  Next I would look at headstock alignment.  I would do this by putting the faceplate on the spindle and sweeping across the surface.  Alternatively, you can mount a carriage bolt to the faceplate at a suitable distance from the center.  Rotate the faceplate so the bolt is to the front and horizontal with the spindle. 
 Mount a dial or rest indicator on the cross slide and zero out on the bolt head.  Lock the carriage and recheck zero.  Now, rotate the faceplate 180º so it is on the backside of the lathe and move the cross slide to intersect it.  The reading on the indicator should be zero. (Note: there are some schools that maintain that a lathe should face a slightly concave surface, the reason being that such a surface won't rock when placed on a flat surface.  I didn't go to that school)  My G0602 has an adjustment for headstock alignment, others do not.  I would first align my headstock for equal readings front and back.

There is the possibility that the cross slide ways aren't perpendicular to the bed ways.  Checking that would require a known good square.  Correcting a non square issue with the cross feed most likely would involve something like scraping the cross feed which is fairly advanced work.  

Now, I would move on to the ways, checking for taper by either the two collar or the RDM method, and shimming as required.  I would go back and check my faceplate measurements, readjust if necessary and recheck the ways.


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## Creativechipper (Jul 17, 2018)

Wow , this is really a delicate advanced measuring process, I never knew.

 Funny in all the drop down option menus with goodies for the lathe, I never saw anything about tooling for leveling the lathe.

 I definitely want to get this right and not have all my work be off center.

 I will have to look up each procedure and buy some measuring devices, I lack most tools


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## ttabbal (Jul 17, 2018)

It's amazing how little things can affect the work. I bought one of the cheaper machine levels on ebay, it gets the job done. Don't obsess over being "level", worry about the ends of the ways being the same. Get close enough to get repeatable readings on the level, then check both sides. There is a scan from a South Bend book that discusses how to complete the process with the 2 collar test. It even shows you which corners to adjust based on the measurements. The RDM method is also valuable. Spending time to get it right now will save you a lot of time later.


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## Creativechipper (Jul 17, 2018)

Thanks guys, it's all new and a lil strange to me but I love the challenge and love the feeling I get from making something good!!

 Do I need other tools to get me going, I see machinist blocks and parallel bars and rounds, not real sure how these all co mingle?

 Thanks again!!  The more I learn, the more I learn I don't know..lol


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## ttabbal (Jul 17, 2018)

Parallels, 123 blocks, etc. are more for the mill. They aren't useless on a lathe, but they aren't as important. Level it up, get a turning tool that fits and a drill chuck, and practice. You will learn what other things you need/want as you go. There are some threads around that give a good list of tooling to consider, but don't go too nuts at first. It's easy to buy a bunch of stuff you end up not using much.


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## P. Waller (Jul 17, 2018)

Why do you believe that it is necessary to "level" such a small machine? Please explain this.


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## T Bredehoft (Jul 17, 2018)

P. Waller said:


> Why do you believe that it is necessary to "level" such a small machine? Please explain this.



It isn't "Level" so much as Parallel. Standing in front of the lathe, you want the base of the headstock to be parallel the base of the tailstock. (on top of the ways.) The easiest way to do this is with a sensitive level.
Without this alignment, the machine will not cut accurately. I guess that's why its necessary.


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## P. Waller (Jul 17, 2018)

T Bredehoft said:


> It isn't "Level" so much as Parallel. Standing in front of the lathe, you want the base of the headstock to be parallel the base of the tailstock. (on top of the ways.) The easiest way to do this is with a sensitive level.
> Without this alignment, the machine will not cut accurately. I guess that's why its necessary.



With a machine that length the casting will be so rigid that you would have to bolt it to a rigid surface and use the screws to force it to twist, if indeed it were a long turn machine with a small swing, say 10" X 100" this would be different.
A 1:3 DL ratio machine would not require such ministrations unless it is very lightly made.

However tilting in the direction of the coolant drains is a plus, never forget the coolant flow.


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## Creativechipper (Jul 17, 2018)

I take it a Starret 98-4 4" precision machinists' level is going to be better than a Accusize 6" precision level s908-c684  ? 
 Also looking at a anytime tools premium dial caliper 0-6"/0.001" precision double shock proof, solid hardened stainless.
Plus a magnetic base SAE dial test indicator 1" travel, accuracy 0.001" per 

  I am about to buy them but figured I should ask those with more experience.  My budget is limited, this set of items is about $160. in my cart

 Just trying to avoid the unusable garbage.

 Thanks


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## T Bredehoft (Jul 18, 2018)

When I was working as a Tool and Die Maker, I used test indicators, they're much smaller and far more versatile than the 1 in travel indicters.  I never had a 1", working, usually .125, maybe .187 travel.


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## Creativechipper (Jul 18, 2018)

So with dial indicators or test indicators, I take it the need is in a very small reading vs over an inch?
  Is a smaller limited range better for measuring ?
Basically I have no measuring tools at all, so I am looking for some that will be versatile for working around a 10x30 lathe.
Intended projects not being much larger than 2"diameter x 6"length, I think/guess/estimate..lol


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## ttabbal (Jul 18, 2018)

If you're going to do the 2 collar test, you need a micrometer the right size for the test bar you make. A 0-1" should be fine, there's no need for a 6" test bar. A caliper won't do, you need a micrometer. Even the Digital Harbor Freight one is good enough, but a used big name mic will turn up if you look long enough. 

Yes, I know, HF.. but it's been tested against known standards by a few people with good results. Not everything there is crap, just 95% or so.  

1" dial indicators are useful for lots of things. Test indicators are better for spindles and such, but the normal units are good for general indicating of work. The magnetic setups can also be used as travel indicators, like an analog DRO. There are reasons most of us have both styles. For general work alignment in the lathe, I usually use a 1" travel DI. It's usually easier to position for dialing in a 4-jaw or similar. And my test indicator only has a range of about 8 thous. My first setup is usually out more than that. 

This reminds me, I really need to get something to calibrate my normal mics.


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## NortonDommi (Jul 18, 2018)




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## Creativechipper (Jul 18, 2018)

I was referring to my intended project size as 6x2"

 Someone stated that a 1" dial indicator was too much travel.

 I listed the micrometer that I intend to buy if its not crap, it has a length of 6" and is hand held

 I am confused about dial caliper vs dial indicator and what would be most useful to use on a magnetic base

Then the machinist level look to be an ok investment has V groove base.  Not sure if v groove is good or if I need flat or if its ever going to be needed once my lathe is set up.

 So I was looking at a starrett 4" or 6" precision level wondering if it might be a better choice 

 Heres some of the items I am wondering about:
  






                                        1                                                                                                            







                         Fowler 52-229-780 Indicator, Mag Base, Dial Caliper & Micrometer Combo Set             
 
 












                         Fowler 52-562-105 X-Test and Xtra-Mag Combo Indicator, 0.0005" Graduation Interval, 0.060" Maximum Measuring Range, 1.5" Diameter             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Only 1 left in stock (more on the way).                                                                                                                                                                                                
 _Free Shipping for Prime Members_ 
                                                             Gift options not available.                                                            Gift options not available.                                Learn more             
 


                    $119.32                


                                        1                                                                                                            







                         AccusizeTools - 0.03'' x 0.0005'' Dial Test Indicator in Fitted Box, #P900-S108             
                                                                                                                                                    In Stock                                                                                        
 _Free Shipping for Prime Members_ 
 
                          This is a gift                                                                This is a gift                                Learn more             

 


                    $41.60                


                                        1                                                                                                            







                         8'' Precision Leveler Graduation .0005 Bar measurement Ruler Bar V Groove Base             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Only 10 left in stock - order soon.                                                                                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                        Shipped from: M&H Global 
 
                                                             Gift options not available.                                                            Gift options not available.                                Learn more             
 


                    $69.98                


                                        1                                                                                                            







                         Anytime Tools Premium Dial Caliper 0-6"/0.001" Precision Double Shock Proof Solid Hardened Stainless Steel


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## TakeDeadAim (Jul 18, 2018)

Look for decent used tools on Ebay and Craigslist.  Micrometers, unless they look bad and do not turn smooth are built like tanks and may only need to be calibrated to be useable.  I bought a used 0-4" set of Starrett when I was 16 and am still using that set.  Same guy at the same time had a Starrett #196 indicator.  That Ive had repaired once and replaced the dial once but if it blew up tomorrow Id have it fixed again and feel like it didn't owe me a penny.

A quick check of Ebay shows several Starrett 231 0-1" micrometers in the $20 price range, and at least one 231 1-2" for $50, Model 196 indicator sets  are in the $70 range.  So for the same investment you would have quality tools.  Dial calipers are "get close tools" so I would not hesitate to go with an import on them.


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## Creativechipper (Jul 18, 2018)

I am open to buying used, the problem is I don't have a clue as to what I need.

Like dial caliper vs test indicator, or do I want 0-1" measuring or .0125? I have never used a dial measuring device period.
I have a micrometer that slides 6" or so with a digital read out. I use on RC heli set ups, but no dials with plungers or screw style calipers.

I am looking at a set by fowler now:
*Fowler 52-229-780 Indicator, Mag Base, Dial Caliper & Micrometer Combo Set  *

Any advice on this much needed.   Thanks  

  The bench is more level than the catch pan , the base of the lathe does not appear to be level or machined flat .
  I like the video on leveling the lathe !!

 Maybe benchtop lathes are harder as I have no feet or screw turn legs to adjust. I am stuck shoving feelers under till its more level. 
 The feelers under it like a deck of cards and it does not feel stable this way.
 I must be missing something here, gotta be easier way.


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## TakeDeadAim (Jul 18, 2018)

Ok, lets get you lined out on some things first.  On your lathe; it should be bolted to a sturdy bench and then level the bench; I'd be more concerned about twisting the bed doing it the way you are now.  The other issue with not having it down tight against the chip pan is the pan will leak.  Your lathe looks like a PM from Quality Machine Tools.  There stuff is pretty decent, most of the smaller lathes are pretty rigid and are made to be bolted to a bench or an optional stand.  If you need some help with design on a stand I'd be happy to help.  Do you have access to welding?

Ok now as far as tools go; I think your confusing some tool names dial calipers are for measuring inside and outside dimensions vs. dial indicators/test indicators which measure but more for set up.

Kind of a standard starting set would be 0-1" micrometer,  6" scale with 1/8 & 1/16 divisions on one side and 1/32 & 1/64" on the other.  6" dial caliper (will get you larger sizes and the ability to measure ID and depth)   Simple dial indicator set like Starrett model 196.  I'd also add a 12" combination square and scriber as you will need these for layout and many other tasks.  I'm assuming you have things like a ball pein hammer and center punch  just keep  adding tools as you need and can afford them. You can see YouTube videos by OxTool and Tubelcain for what other tools to add, but these items will get you going.

You indicated your on a budget so Id check for the items you need on EBay, I looked earlier today and there, as usual, are some good deals to be had.


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## Creativechipper (Jul 18, 2018)

I bolted down to chip pan 1st and found it tilting backside toward wall.
 The chip pan appears to be very unlevel.

 I will remove shims and post a couple pics what that looks like.

 to me the bolt through pc of lathe is not level front to back on the same boot, let alone from head to tail.


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## TakeDeadAim (Jul 18, 2018)

Yea, take some photos both close ups and from a distance so we can see the lathe, chip pan and stand


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## Creativechipper (Jul 19, 2018)

Ok, here's where I am at, lifted the lathe up, 3-point harness style.

Re set the lathe on the chip tray, drilled the holes at the head stock end and bolted all 3 spots down. 

It is a lot more square looking at the chip tray, but about the same at the level end of things.

To me it appears the head stock end needs to shim up and the wall side needs a shim up to square up this thing.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks, Jay


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## ttabbal (Jul 19, 2018)

For measuring, you have a digital caliper. No need for a dial caliper. Note, calipers and micrometers are NOT the same. Calipers are great for quick measurements, but you need a micrometer for more precision. Fowler seems to make decent stuff. Here's what I started with for measuring, I've added some nicer gear as deals and budget allowed. 

1" travel 0.0005 graduations dial indicator. (Shars) 
Noga style mag base for indicators. (ebay) 
6" digital calipers. (Harbor Freight) 
0-1" digital micrometer. (Harbor Freight) 
6" machinist scale. (Shars) 
Layout fluid. (dychem) 

It's all budget stuff, but works well enough for getting started. And you won't be too upset if you break them. While learning, they are more accurate than you are. If you get a good deal on big name gear in decent shape, pick it up. 

And you can use the HF calipers for layout and such without feeling bad about it.  

For a scribe, buy a cheap one, but it makes a great simple lathe project to make one. Clickspring on YouTube has a great video published by Make magazine showing one. I used aluminum rather than brass as I had it and aluminum is much cheaper.  


Leveling the lathe... Use the bench to level the way you have pictured, down the long axis. It's not really required in that direction, but it helps keep things from rolling off the bench. To start, do the same the other direction. From here you need a precision level or just use RDM/2 collar tests. The precision level speeds the process, but if budget is tight you can make do. 

Shims can make it tough. If you want an easier way, make something like this...


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## ttabbal (Jul 19, 2018)

Here's a post showing my levelers on a PM1127. 

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/designing-a-wood-bench-for-a-lathe.63747/page-2#post-554638


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## RJSakowski (Jul 19, 2018)

P. Waller said:


> With a machine that length the casting will be so rigid that you would have to bolt it to a rigid surface and use the screws to force it to twist, if indeed it were a long turn machine with a small swing, say 10" X 100" this would be different.
> A 1:3 DL ratio machine would not require such ministrations unless it is very lightly made.
> 
> However tilting in the direction of the coolant drains is a plus, never forget the coolant flow.



One thing that has become apparent too me over the years is there is no such thing as a perfect alignment; only the alignment we're willing to live with.  This holds true for manufactures, both American and Chinese.  Even if a machine were impeccably aligned in the factory, there is no guaranty that castings didn't change with age or that the machine didn't get rudely jostled during shipment.

My 10 x 22 lathe's inspection report states that to pass inspection, the ways will be out of parallel with the spindle axis in the horizontal plane by no more than .03mm/50mm.  This amounts to .0036" over 6".  I don't know of many on this forum that would be content with that.

Small lathes are not as rigid as you might think.  On my 10 x 22 lathe, I see  a deflection of .001" in the vertical plane and .003" in the horizontal plane with 10lbs. of applied force.


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## TakeDeadAim (Jul 19, 2018)

Ok now we can see what you have.  First off if you grab your bench and give it a good wiggle is it solid?  If so then you dont need the next step.  If it wiggles then I would add some 45 degree braces between the top and the legs.

Next does your level sit flat across the top of the carriage where your checking?  If not you can use two strips of adding machine paper, one under each end of the level to make sure your not teter tottering in the center.  (Id prob do this anyway)

Then I would bolt the lathe to the bench with no shims and check the level.  Looks like the front of the machine is high so put some shims under the back legs until you get close.  Then use some door/window wedge shims, any lumber yard or big box store will have them in a pack for a few dollars. 

Having a helper will be, well helpful here, to tap in the shims while you watch the level till the head is level then the tail then check the head again until you have it as close as you can with the level you have.  Then I'd do the run in procedure on the machine and re-check it as it may settle a bit.  Then just see how it cuts with the two ring test.  It does not need to be level length wise so long as it cuts.


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## TakeDeadAim (Jul 19, 2018)

My point with buying decent condition used name brand Micrometers and such is that you get the quality tool that has a very long life for the same price as the cheap stuff and you end up not having to replace it.  I buy the import stuff for tools I dont use often or as a second tool of the same type but metrology stuff is the heart and soul of what we do as machinists.  When I can by a quality well cared for Starrett 0-1 mic for $25 Ill take it over a new unknown quality one any day.  Ive got three 0-1, my old one and two that I picked up off EBay for $20-$30 I keep in spots in the shop I always use them.  Really unless you throw a mic against the wall or let it rust you can not wear the threads out on them.  The 231 series satin chrome finish Starrett really hold up to use.

If you buy a few tools to get going and add as you need and can afford them you will have what you need in no time,  I have really gotten many quality tools from retired guys, estate sales and the online sources.  Got a set of Starrett 12" Scales and the straight and 90* clamps to put them together a few weeks back for $25 all in.  Don't really "need" them but someday Im sure they will be exactly what I need for a job.  If not some young man or woman is going to love buying my Kennedy boxes full of tools when I can no longer use them


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## WarrenP (Jul 19, 2018)

RJSakowski , When you say your G0602 has a headstock adjustment, are you talking about loosening the 4 screws and moving the headstock manually? I have the G0752 which is the same except for vfd right.... and that is the only way I know of adjusting it. Thanks


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## Creativechipper (Jul 19, 2018)

I need to sturdy up the bench, at the same time I may be able to level the top more. 

 I really like the idea of a leveling plate with adjustable points!!  I saw the link to the custom set up, great!! Did you have a close up of it installed on your lathe?

 Thanks for all the info, I am learning a lot here.


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## NortonDommi (Jul 19, 2018)

WarrenP said:


> RJSakowski , When you say your G0602 has a headstock adjustment, are you talking about loosening the 4 screws and moving the headstock manually? I have the G0752 which is the same except for vfd right.... and that is the only way I know of adjusting it. Thanks


  Just for the moment this is concentrating on leveling the bed of the lathe as this is the most important step. By leveling we mean that the ways are not twisted. You could mount the lathe sideways on a wall if you wanted ,(actually not a bad idea!), but the ways need to be level in the same plane.
  DO NOT start tu-tuing with headstock alignment until this is done AND you understand what you are doing.


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## ttabbal (Jul 19, 2018)

Creativechipper said:


> I need to sturdy up the bench, at the same time I may be able to level the top more.
> 
> I really like the idea of a leveling plate with adjustable points!!  I saw the link to the custom set up, great!! Did you have a close up of it installed on your lathe?
> 
> Thanks for all the info, I am learning a lot here.




A solid bench to mount it to is critical. It does no good to align things to tenths if the whole platform moves.  

Did you find what you needed in my thread or is there something you would like a better photo of? 


For measuring tools, what I've found is that good deals can be tricky to get with people bidding at the last second on ebay, etc.. As someone getting started you don't want to play games, you want to get started. By all means, if you can get a high quality instrument for similar cost, do so. I'm not suggesting the import gear should be the end game. It's just the beginning. But it's reasonably priced, you can buy it RIGHT NOW with no games, and it's good enough to start. And it's good enough to keep using after you get better gear, for less critical measuring or dangerous situations where you think you might drop it. Dropping a $100 DTI sucks, dropping a $30 DTI is mildly annoying. When I'm roughing in a part on the lathe, I use the HF calipers. When I'm setting up a finish pass I want accurate to 0.0005", I break out the Starrett Micrometer. Sure, you can use the nice gear for rough measuring, but why? 

Full disclosure, no, I'm not accurate to tenths yet. I'm trying to get there though.


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## Creativechipper (Jul 19, 2018)

I saw the pictures, I could not see how it was with lathe on it. A close up pic of the bracket in final with the lathe would be great.

 Very happy with all the info you all are giving me!!

 I have added a few things you all suggested, like marking fluid and machinist rulers. I will reconsider the kit by fowler and compare to individual pcs to see if I can get the price down a bit and the tools more specific to my needs.

 Great group here, so Happy I found you all.


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## ttabbal (Jul 19, 2018)

Here's one with the lathe installed on the bench. 




The outer edges are the adjustment bolts and locking nuts. Next are some screws holding the bracket to the top of the bench. The center is the hold down bolt for the lathe foot. The plate is just mild steel flat bar from home depot. 3/16" or 1/4" thick, 1" wide I believe. The center and outer holes in the bar are threaded. 3/8-24 for the adjustment bolts, 1/2-13 for the hold down. Get good taps, I did those with the harbor freight kit because I didn't know better. After using real taps I won't use the HF crap. My favorite are the spiral flute YG-1 taps right now.


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## WarrenP (Jul 19, 2018)

NortonDommi ... I'm not the one to start this thread, since he mentoned about the headstock and I have done it the way I mentioned I was curious to what he was describing. Sorry didn't mean to try to hijack this thread. Just curious if there was something I didn't know.


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## Creativechipper (Jul 20, 2018)

No problem at all Warren, I am curious too.


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## NortonDommi (Jul 21, 2018)

WarrenP said:


> NortonDommi ... I'm not the one to start this thread, since he mentoned about the headstock and I have done it the way I mentioned I was curious to what he was describing. Sorry didn't mean to try to hijack this thread. Just curious if there was something I didn't know.


*WarrenP, *sorry if I came across a little terse, A question was asked about mounting and truing a lathe and the first step is leveling the bed. I was a bit worried that jumping to aligning the headstock could confuse things especially as that is not something often needed.  I know that when I'm faced with a new thing or process it's generally best to start at point A and work from there step by step and it's very easy to go off on a tangent or get sidetracked.


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## WarrenP (Jul 23, 2018)

NotonDommi, No Problem I just felt a little funny seeming to take over the thread with my question. I understand what you mean and your right.. go one step at a time.

I guess RJSawkowski isnt following the thread anymore, I was hoping for an answer.. Everyone have a good day.


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## Bi11Hudson (Jul 23, 2018)

First off, let me welcome you, along with all the others, to the board. And to the rat race, such as it is. I don't have a lot to add, just some insights that have accumulated over the years. 

As a hobbyest, you have the *luxury* of time. In that, if it ain't right, do it over. There are many here that do this for a living and must produce. If they don't turn out product, within specs, they don't eat. Many of the measuring tools they have are for saving time. A little here, a little there, it adds up over the course of a full day. What you *need* is a set of calipers and a feeler guage. What ever else you *want* is just that, want. A six inch dial caliper(or digital, though *I* don't like them), a 0-1" micrometer(also called a _micrometer_ caliper) and a dial indicator and stand. 

There are many ways to true a lathe. But some of them take 3 or 4 days while others take 3 or 4 hours and yet others take 10 minutes. Truing the lathe is a serious, albeit fairly easy, business. Roughing it in with a good mason's level and a plumb bob as shown in the video above will do for 95% of hobbyests. It's those other 5% that must have it accurate to three decimal places. And then the pros...  I, however, am nowhere as good as they. But as a retiree in my own field, don't really care. I have enough skills to build what I want and anything more would be a waste.

Let me start off by saying that I was looking at something on eBay the other day and thought of the one I have had forever, or almost forever. One I stole off a ship in 1969. Didn't really steal it, it was being used and got thrown in with my stuff when I got transferred. At age 20, I wasn't as careful as later. 

The point being that I didn't have a lathe of my own until nearly 30 years later. But, when it came up, I already had that item. I have traveled around the world a few times. Doing electrical and computer work. I gathered, as needed, the tools for each craft, as I needed, to accomplish a particular job. Some of those tools were of good precision, some only marginally so. But for machinist's work, might as well have been toys. And a few, specific to another craft, only buildable by a *Master* Tool Maker. We get hung up on the "standards" of a profession, when all we need is enough for what we do.

I use as an example a framing carpenter, who considers a cut within 1/16" sufficient. I've worked with a few who considered 1/8" to be suitable. A cabinet maker, however, considers 1/64" to be a target to work toward. The machinist, on the other hand, must work every day to one thousandth. Or better... Look at the numbers involved here: 1/8=0.125, 1/16=0.062~, 1/64=0.015~, machinist 0.001 or 0.0001. If you needed a brass hammer turned from a chunk of (scrap) brass, would 2" +/-1/8" be close enough? Use what you need for the job at hand. If a 6" caliper (dial or digital) will yeild sufficient accuracy, why bother with a micrometer? Get what you need when you need it. Until then, dream but don't necessarily buy. For that brass hammer, *I* would measure with a Mk.1 eyeball. To put it another way, TLAR, That Looks About Right. Use what you need, not what "everybody" is telling you.

Bill Hudson​


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## Creativechipper (Jul 24, 2018)

Thanks for all the thoughtful helpful replies!

I am starting to get a feel for what the tools and measuring devices are all about.

I have added 3 cross ribs to my bench and made it way more stable. The lathe is much more square/level now, the bubble on my carpenters level is at least between the lines of center.

I ordered up an inexpensive dial indicator with magnetic stand, some blue marking fluid, a machinist ruler 6" to start. I am looking for a nice used 0-1"  micrometer. Currently considering a Mitutoyo 103-127 0-1" with box and tool, any suggestions on this tool? 

I do like the quality of the older tools like the B&S and other USA, Swiss and Japan made tools.

I hope to be turning something soon, my measuring tools should be in by Friday.


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## WarrenP (Jul 24, 2018)

Mitutoyo is obviously a good brand, so is starrett, if you can get a good buy on those you will have a nice tool. You say your carpenters level is bubble is between the Mark's which is nice, but if you got a hold of even a cheaper machinist level I think you will see a differnce.


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## Creativechipper (Jul 24, 2018)

Picked up 3 micrometers, a craftsman, slocomb, and a mitutoyo. Got them used no tools or box's with them , but couldn't resist at 25$ for all 3 Hopefully they work


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