# 833-TV CNC conversion from Dr D-Flo project



## FlyingAMortgage (Nov 15, 2021)

PM-833TV arrived last Monday. Ordered a MESA 7i76E, servos & drives and ballscrews + brackets from Bruce Nelson at Heavy Metal CNC today. Just finished getting LinuxCNC installed on an Intel NUC. Following Dr. David Florian’s project instructions from YouTube. Will keep you posted. Will be my first project like this.


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## FlyingAMortgage (Nov 15, 2021)

Clarification: I ordered the servos and drives from DMM not Heavy Metal


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## Christianstark (Nov 16, 2021)

Look forward to a comprehensive build thread with lots of pictures, including NUC installs, and electronics deep dive  (hint, hint)

Will enjoy watching!


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## FlyingAMortgage (Nov 16, 2021)

Well the NUC software install is done already. I just downloaded LinuxCNC ISO and burned it onto a flash drive with Rufus then plugged the flash drive into the NUC and turned on the power. Then I walked through the advanced setup. I guess I could write up something on that. It's easy enough I can do it again.


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## Rodneyk (Dec 13, 2021)

Do you have any links available for the equipment you ordered? I have the same machine and am interested in your progress very much.


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## FlyingAMortgage (Dec 13, 2021)

quite a bit of it, yes... working on getting everything wired up for bench test. Let me see what I can put together for you.


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## FlyingAMortgage (Dec 13, 2021)

I had a NUC that work was going to throw away, so I used it for linuxcnc install
I'm not 100% confident that using servos as step and direction replacements for stepper motors is the best way to drive a mill, but it should work fine. Worst case scenario, I get a different card from MESA and drive them that way. Then again, it may actually be the best way. I'm pretty sure David Florian went that route because he was upgrading from steppers and it was drop-in that way. Since this is my first attempt, I'm going with a known functional solution.

Below is what I ordered from Automation Direct
Primary Circuit Breaker https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...rs_(gmcbu_series)/3-pole_(1a-63a)/gmcbu-3b-40

Contactors:


			https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/motor_controls/iec_magnetic_contactors/3-pole_contactors_(7_to_38_amp)/sc-e04pg-24vdc
		

2 x https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...-pole_contactors_(7_to_38_amp)/sc-e03pg-24vdc

E-Stop Switch https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...luminated_-a-_non-illuminated/ar30v0l-01e3rzc

Here's stuff I got from Digi-Key
1A line filters x 3 https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/schurter-inc/FPBB-U3RI-0190/8605106
10A line filters x 2 https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/schurter-inc/FPBB-V3RI-1090-VD/8605117 (note this part needs fuses so I probably ordered the wrong one. Likely should have gotten the U3RI instead)
16A line filter https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/schurter-inc/FPBB-U3RI-1690/8605111

Here's some of the stuff I got for wiring up the controls from Amazon


			Amazon.com
		






						ICI Dinkle DIN Rail Terminal Block Kit #2 White 20 DK4N-WE 10 AWG Gauge 30A 600V Ground DK4N-PE Jumper DSS4N-10P End Covers End Brackets: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
					

ICI Dinkle DIN Rail Terminal Block Kit #2 White 20 DK4N-WE 10 AWG Gauge 30A 600V Ground DK4N-PE Jumper DSS4N-10P End Covers End Brackets: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



					smile.amazon.com
				





			Amazon.com
		






						Dinkle DSS2.5N-02P DIN Rail Terminal Block Press-Fit Jumper (Pack of 50): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
					

Dinkle DSS2.5N-02P DIN Rail Terminal Block Press-Fit Jumper (Pack of 50): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



					smile.amazon.com
				





			Amazon.com
		

2 x https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00W18EM9O?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details (1 of these is for the Z-axis brake)
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07L689B3H?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details (for releasing the brake after power-up)
These work, but are less than ideal ways to connect to the DMM Dyn-4 drives as the nuts interfere with each other. There's probably a better solution out there, but they work: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B073RG3GG6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

This has been a GREAT purchase for electrical hookups https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08J7M8X49?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

DMM in Canada
Tuning Cable: DYN Servo Drive USB Tuning Cable [ CA-MTUSB-FR1 ] × 1

Z-Axis:
A15-DHT 1.3kW NEMA42 AC Servo Motor With Keyed Shaft / with 24VDC Brake × 1
DYN4-T01A2 1.3kW ~ 1.8kW Capacity AC Servo Drive × 1
DYN4 Motor Power Cable H [ CAMP - HH3 - SSP ] × 1
DYN4 Encoder Cable H [ CAEN - HH3 - TSP ] × 1

X & Y Axis:
86N-DHT 0.75kW AC Servo Motor No Brake / D-Cut Shaft × 2
DYN4-H01A2 0.75kW ~ 1.0kW Capacity AC Servo Drive × 2
DYN4 Motor Power Cable L [ CAMP - HL3 - SSP ] × 2
DYN4 Encoder Cable L [ CAEN - HL3-TSP ] × 2

Conversion kit and 4th axis from Bruce Nelson at Heavy Metal CNC





						pm833t – Heavy Metal CNC
					






					heavymetalcnc.com
				








						4th Axis Rotary with Tailstock – Heavy Metal CNC
					






					heavymetalcnc.com
				




Mesa Electronics Stuff:
1x DIN RAIL ADAPTER KIT (2 PCS.) (DIN RAIL ADAPTER KIT (2 PCS.))
1x DIN RAIL ADAPTER KIT (3 PCS.) (DIN RAIL ADAPTER KIT (3 PCS.))
7i96E takes 5 adapters
1 x 7I76E http://mesanet.com/


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## FlyingAMortgage (Dec 15, 2021)

Rodneyk said:


> Do you have any links available for the equipment you ordered? I have the same machine and am interested in your progress very much.


Actually got the axis turning under power on the bench today


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## Rodneyk (Dec 16, 2021)

FlyingAMortgage said:


> I had a NUC that work was going to throw away, so I used it for linuxcnc install
> I'm not 100% confident that using servos as step and direction replacements for stepper motors is the best way to drive a mill, but it should work fine. Worst case scenario, I get a different card from MESA and drive them that way. Then again, it may actually be the best way. I'm pretty sure David Florian went that route because he was upgrading from steppers and it was drop-in that way. Since this is my first attempt, I'm going with a known functional solution.
> 
> Below is what I ordered from Automation Direct
> ...


Thanks this is what I was looking for!


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## magu (Jan 6, 2022)

I'm picking up my 833 early next week, so if you could just hurry up and finish.....  I am thinking of going the same route, except with centroid instead of mesa; have you received the parts from heavy metal yet? I guess I need to call or email Bruce, I am leaning towards his kit, but it looks like it is just using singular ball bearings, perhaps I am wrong and they are angular contact or something?


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## 7milesup (Jan 7, 2022)

magu said:


> I'm picking up my 833 early next week, so if you could just hurry up and finish.....  I am thinking of going the same route, except with centroid instead of mesa; have you received the parts from heavy metal yet? I guess I need to call or email Bruce, I am leaning towards his kit, but it looks like it is just using singular ball bearings, perhaps I am wrong and they are angular contact or something?


I too have been seriously considering a CNC conversion on my 833T.  I have looked at Heavy Metal's kit and it seems like a lot of money for what you get.  I am assuming the ball screws in his kit are Chinese because ground ball screws of USA origin would be out the roof.  I don't know, maybe his kit is worth it but for myself, I already have the mill set up and running so making the ballscrew and motor mounts seems straightforward.


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## FlyingAMortgage (Jan 7, 2022)

magu said:


> I'm picking up my 833 early next week, so if you could just hurry up and finish.....  I am thinking of going the same route, except with centroid instead of mesa; have you received the parts from heavy metal yet? I guess I need to call or email Bruce, I am leaning towards his kit, but it looks like it is just using singular ball bearings, perhaps I am wrong and they are angular contact or something?


The bearings are just for holding the ball screw in the adapter plates. They don't need to be anything special like angular contact. Won't be an issue. They're fine as is.

I had the mill torn all the way down, the acme screws out and the ball screws ready to install but ran into a snag. Whoever is machining the castings in Taiwan has changed (for the better) the way they are producing the Z "table" and milling the screw nut attachment surface on the other side of the casting relative to the axis, so the heavy metal kit wouldn't work as shipped. The oil lines are all protected inside the casting now though which in my opinion is a better process. I tried installing the Z-axis screw as shipped for most of a day, but it just won't fit. I finally realized that I just needed to reverse the double ballscrew nut on the ballscrew to make it work. I 3D printed an arbor after researching the process (don't want to lose all those little ball bearings!) and got it flipped around... _only to break one of the oil lines right at the fitting_ from all the stress of rearranging them and of course they're metric and not even our local Grainger's had them. MSC did and they arrived yesterday, so I'll be repairing the broken oil line (if I can!) this weekend and putting the mill back together.

On a much sadder note, Mrs. Nelson replied to an email question with the news that Bruce had passed right before Christmas this year.


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## FlyingAMortgage (Jan 7, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I too have been seriously considering a CNC conversion on my 833T.  I have looked at Heavy Metal's kit and it seems like a lot of money for what you get.  I am assuming the ball screws in his kit are Chinese because ground ball screws of USA origin would be out the roof.  I don't know, maybe his kit is worth it but for myself, I already have the mill set up and running so making the ballscrew and motor mounts seems straightforward.


Yes, I completely understand and considered that quite a bit myself. I think if I had gotten a DRO along with the mill and had some of the other tooling like rotary tables, etc. I might have gone that route myself. Bruce unfortunately passed away before Christmas. His business partner is taking over.


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## 7milesup (Jan 7, 2022)

FlyingAMortgage said:


> On a much sadder note, Mrs. Nelson replied to an email question with the news that Bruce had passed right before Christmas this year.


Oh no!   That is sad to hear. 
Was there any mention of someone taking over the operation or was Bruce a one-man shop?

EDIT:  You were typing when I was replying, so thanks for the update.


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## FlyingAMortgage (Jan 7, 2022)

7milesup said:


> Oh no!   That is sad to hear.
> Was there any mention of someone taking over the operation or was Bruce a one-man shop?
> 
> EDIT:  You were typing when I was replying, so thanks for the update.


She mentioned in her email that his business partner was taking over. They had employees, it wasn't just him. I get the impression they did a lot more full conversions than kits, but that was just an impression I got. I don't actually know.


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## Rodneyk (Jan 7, 2022)

magu said:


> I'm picking up my 833 early next week, so if you could just hurry up and finish.....  I am thinking of going the same route, except with centroid instead of mesa; have you received the parts from heavy metal yet? I guess I need to call or email Bruce, I am leaning towards his kit, but it looks like it is just using singular ball bearings, perhaps I am wrong and they are angular contact or something?


I was in contact with HeavyMetal recently. The email I got said that there was a death in the family, and they may take a while to get the company running again. The way it read, it sounded like Bruce died, but the wording was a little ambiguous.


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## FlyingAMortgage (Jan 7, 2022)

FlyingAMortgage said:


> She mentioned in her email that his business partner was taking over. They had employees, it wasn't just him. I get the impression they did a lot more full conversions than kits, but that was just an impression I got. I don't actually know.


Here's what she sent me verbatim, and it tracks. I'm not going to post the personal back and forth, condolences, etc.

>> On Dec 29, 2021, at 10:39 PM, Bruce Nelson <bruce@heavymetalcnc.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, 
>> I’m Debbie Nelson,
>> My husband Bruce passed away, before Christmas. Our partner will be getting back to you on this as soon as possible. Please believe me that we want to help.
>> Thank you
>> Debbie Nelson
>>
>> Bruce


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## magu (Jan 7, 2022)

FlyingAMortgage said:


> The bearings are just for holding the ball screw in the adapter plates. They don't need to be anything special like angular contact. Won't be an issue. They're fine as is.


They also take the thrust loading from the ball screws and can be a source of float in the system. Any misumi, nsk, etc uses angular contact and or a combination of bearings to support thrust and reduce backlash.


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## magu (Jan 7, 2022)

FlyingAMortgage said:


> On a much sadder note, Mrs. Nelson replied to an email question with the news that Bruce had passed right before Christmas this year.


That is terrible news


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## FlyingAMortgage (Jan 8, 2022)

magu said:


> They also take the thrust loading from the ball screws and can be a source of float in the system. Any misumi, nsk, etc uses angular contact and or a combination of bearings to support thrust and reduce backlash.


The vast majority of the thrust load is on the nut plate adapter and the bearings split their load along with some help from the motor coupler. I'm not concerned.


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## FlyingAMortgage (Jan 9, 2022)

magu said:


> They also take the thrust loading from the ball screws and can be a source of float in the system. Any misumi, nsk, etc uses angular contact and or a combination of bearings to support thrust and reduce backlash.


I should clarify: there are a pair of bearings in the zaxis ballscrew plate at the top of the zaxis


FlyingAMortgage said:


> The bearings are just for holding the ball screw in the adapter plates. They don't need to be anything special like angular contact. Won't be an issue. They're fine as is.
> 
> I had the mill torn all the way down, the acme screws out and the ball screws ready to install but ran into a snag. Whoever is machining the castings in Taiwan has changed (for the better) the way they are producing the Z "table" and milling the screw nut attachment surface on the other side of the casting relative to the axis, so the heavy metal kit wouldn't work as shipped. The oil lines are all protected inside the casting now though which in my opinion is a better process. I tried installing the Z-axis screw as shipped for most of a day, but it just won't fit. I finally realized that I just needed to reverse the double ballscrew nut on the ballscrew to make it work. I 3D printed an arbor after researching the process (don't want to lose all those little ball bearings!) and got it flipped around... _only to break one of the oil lines right at the fitting_ from all the stress of rearranging them and of course they're metric and not even our local Grainger's had them. MSC did and they arrived yesterday, so I'll be repairing the broken oil line (if I can!) this weekend and putting the mill back together.
> 
> On a much sadder note, Mrs. Nelson replied to an email question with the news that Bruce had passed right before Christmas this year.


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## FlyingAMortgage (Jan 9, 2022)

So a couple of issues I have run into (so far) and how I worked around them:

The Heavy Metal kit is designed for the Z-axis ballscrew to connect to a replacement adapter plate that screws into the screw nutblock of the casting of the z axis saddle which had apparently been previously machined on the "top" side of the nutblock at the factory. Well, that factory process is changed, at least in my mill as shipped, and the acme screw nut was flipped on mine and the bottom of the nutblock casting was machined instead of the top. Frankly, it looks like a better design. I spent a few hours trying to make everything work as shipped but that wasn't going to happen.

I researched online to figure out how to flip a ballscrew nut around and came to the conclusion that I would need the shipping arbor that the nut was shipped with... originally... but was not included, so I 3d printed a hollow tube arbor 18mm in diameter and longer than the ballscrew double nut, screwed the nut off the ballscrew and onto the arbor while carefully holding the arbor against the end of the ballscrew and was able to flip it around and screw it back on. Now I was able to mount the ballscrew to the adapter plate on the other side of the nutblock.

All the fiddling I did with the lubrication lines either weakened or work hardened the 4mm tube (it appears to be aluminum) and I broke several of the tubes right at the compression bushing. Needless to say, no one local was stocking 4mm compression sleeves or 4mm tubing either for that matter. MSC had what I needed. I have since found a different source ( bushings: https://cnc-specialty-store.com/grease-lubrication/tubing-fittings/lube-usa-fitting-m8x1-106252 4mm compression sleeves https://cnc-specialty-store.com/grease-lubrication/tubing-fittings/lube-usa-fitting-4mm-106254 ) and am ordering some spares to have around. As you can see from the link, the compression bushings are M8 threaded. I was able to re-use those, just needed the 4mm compression sleeves and fixed tubing. Luckily I ended up needing shorter tubing because it had to be moved so I was able to use that as well. I did not have a tubing cutter but a dremel cut-off wheel worked and I cleaned the ends up afterwards with a file and blew everything out with compressed air in case there was some tiny swarf in the lines.

In hopes that this helps someone else, here are some pictures of what I finally ended up with that could actually fit back onto the z-axis without grinding any of the castings. I had to relocate the lubrication manifold as well. Bruce's instructions say "it will just barely fit" and they are not kidding at all. You really need the gib out (obviously) and I found that taking up as much of the dovetail as possible on one side while slightly angling the other side was necessary. The lubrication needs to be as far towards the top as it is possible to mount it and the lines need to run in the "up and down" direction as I've shown in the pictures to allow them to clear... or you could get out your grinder


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## magu (Jan 9, 2022)

Good to know... I'm just going to go ahead and buy some tubing and fittings now so I have them.


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## FlyingAMortgage (Jan 9, 2022)

magu said:


> Good to know... I'm just going to go ahead and buy some tubing and fittings now so I have them.


Funny thing: I didn't find that online company that carried them until yesterday afternoon. Spent a while looking.


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## FlyingAMortgage (Jan 17, 2022)

Brief update: somehow I managed to not notice that the timing belt and timing pulleys were missing from the kit. I *SHOULD *have inventoried the whole thing to start with after receiving it, but I let my optimism get the better of my wisdom this time. Don't be as foolish as I was, inventory immediately upon receipt even if you're not going to be using something for a while.


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## joeblow65 (Jan 18, 2022)

FlyingAMortgage said:


> Brief update: somehow I managed to not notice that the timing belt and timing pulleys were missing from the kit. I *SHOULD *have inventoried the whole thing to start with after receiving it, but I let my optimism get the better of my wisdom this time. Don't be as foolish as I was, inventory immediately upon receipt even if you're not going to be using something for a while.
> 
> View attachment 392576


Have you bought new ones yet? I'm using a diff stepper than bruce recommended so I have to change my pulleys out anyway. I'm not sure of the cost for new pulleys but if you want to split the cost for my replacements ill send you the ones that came with my kit.


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## FlyingAMortgage (Jan 19, 2022)

joeblow65 said:


> Have you bought new ones yet? I'm using a diff stepper than bruce recommended so I have to change my pulleys out anyway. I'm not sure of the cost for new pulleys but if you want to split the cost for my replacements ill send you the ones that came with my kit.


I have new ones on the way already, but thanks!
FWIW I found the ones that Bruce was using for my kit thanks to some folks on Dr. D-Flow's website forum.
Part Numbers: A 6A 4-14DF05016, A 6A 4-18DF05020 & A 6R 4-033050 on https://shop.sdp-si.com/catalog/


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## joeblow65 (Jan 21, 2022)

@FlyingAMortgage no worries, thanks for the part numbers. your 18mm 3d printed tube came in clutch though. I had the same problem you did.


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## FlyingAMortgage (Jan 21, 2022)

joeblow65 said:


> @FlyingAMortgage no worries, thanks for the part numbers. your 18mm 3d printed tube came in clutch though. I had the same problem you did.


Glad to hear it!


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## FlyingAMortgage (Jan 22, 2022)

Christianstark said:


> Look forward to a comprehensive build thread with lots of pictures, including NUC installs, and electronics deep dive  (hint, hint)
> 
> Will enjoy watching!


Since you (and several others) asked, and after I posted the bench test video even more asked, I made a video on the Linux CNC install (including the probe_basic gui) for the NUC I used.


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## FlyingAMortgage (Apr 9, 2022)

Brief update, I've been procrastinating, primarily because I don't know what I'm doing and want to do things "right." Finally decided, if it doesn't smoke when I plug it in, I at least have a starting point. I've bench tested all the controls components and I'm trying to squeeze them into a 20x24x10 cabinet. I'm documenting as well as I can at https://github.com/attentiondeficitdisasters/mill_conversion_electrical

Note that the excel spreadsheet is actually up to date and I have not gone through and updated the schematics to exactly match. Wire numbers are different, etc.


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## ptrotter (Apr 10, 2022)

FlyingAMortgage said:


> Brief update, I've been procrastinating, primarily because I don't know what I'm doing and want to do things "right." Finally decided, if it doesn't smoke when I plug it in, I at least have a starting point. I've bench tested all the controls components and I'm trying to squeeze them into a 20x24x10 cabinet. I'm documenting as well as I can at https://github.com/attentiondeficitdisasters/mill_conversion_electrical
> 
> Note that the excel spreadsheet is actually up to date and I have not gone through and updated the schematics to exactly match. Wire numbers are different, etc.


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