# Shop re-do



## DavidR8

I’m in the midst of re-doing my 23’x19’ shop. 
Trying to deal with a shop full of tools for woodworking and metal work. And a whack of stuff left by the previous occupant.
The space doesn't have to accommodate cars, just a couple of street motorcycles. 
The space has a flat roof which is challenging for headroom overhead storage. 
Layout-wise it has two 8’ wide over head doors and 36” passage door. One challenging factor is that there is a pillar halfway width-wise and about 13 ft from the front wall.

I’m in the process of re-wiring and boarding the interior. So far I have one and half walls done. Working around all of the stuff was driving me crazy so I rented a container which arrived on Monday. Happy days!

A few pics will give you an idea of the chaos I’m trying to tame.
@mickri I took your good advice and am creating distance between the wood work and metal work areas. Thanks for that guidance!



































Wednesday was a holiday here and I took Thursday and Friday off to make some headway. 

First order of business was to move a stockpile of wood left by the previous occupant. 




Wall is clear. 





Ran power and got it sheeted. 





Built one of the two walls that will create the dedicated motorcycle space. 
I want to minimize the dust and what not that accumulates on them so I’m enclosing what amounts to basically an 8’ wide by 9.5’ long space for the bikes. 





Still need to build the wall at the front of the space. It will have a pocket door but I haven’t figured that part out yet. 
The side benefit of this is that I gain two wall spaces which will be most welcome. 

And today (Saturday) I managed to get the lathe moved. 

It’s light enough that I can lift each end of the table to put a 1” piece of plywood under each the legs. 

The table legs are wide enough that I can slip the forward legs of my engine hoist under the lower table runners and then take the plywood out leaving the lathe sitting on the legs of the hoist. 
Five minutes later and it’s in place. 

Moving the mill was 10 times more difficult because the balance point is forward so it wants to tip forward. 





See that nice white wall? I’m going to hang my Starrett poster there. Been waiting to do that for about a year. 

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## mmcmdl

Ha ! David , I can see the floor in a few spots !  You're gonna have to fill them in .


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## benmychree

Ten pounds of (stuff) in a 5 pound box, as my as my shop!


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## brino

Congratulations.
Organization is 90% of the battle.
It's no good to have a tool (or stock) that you cannot find.

It's not a battle that I win all the time though........

-brino


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## DavidR8

mmcmdl said:


> Ha ! David , I can see the floor in a few spots !  You're gonna have to fill them in .



Anyone know where I can find a Bridgeport? 



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## DavidR8

mmcmdl said:


> Ha ! David , I can see the floor in a few spots !  You're gonna have to fill them in .



Anyone know where I can find a Bridgeport? 



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## mmcmdl

DavidR8 said:


> Anyone know where I can find a Bridgeport?


Well , yeah come to think of it .


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## Stonebriar

Good start there.  If it were mine I would chunk out all of the wood gear. Then automatically you have more starting space.  

I know some people like that wood stuff.


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## mickri

You will love having plywood on the walls.  You will be able to mount things where you want them rather than being dictated by where the studs are.  With the insulation you might even be able to climate control the workshop.


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## Buffalo21

Stonebriar said:


> Good start there.  If it were mine I would chunk out all of the wood gear. Then automatically you have more starting space.
> 
> I know some people like that wood stuff.



I worked in a furniture factory while in high school and college summers, I hate woo.... I can’t even write the word. If I never see sawdust again, it will be too soon. I have all the respect for those who do work with woo....., as long as it’s not me.


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## Buffalo21

DavidR8 said:


> Anyone know where I can find a Bridgeport?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



what kind of Bridgeport are you looking for??


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## mmcmdl

Jack , you're located in the land of woods up there in NY .


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## DavidR8

Buffalo21 said:


> what kind of Bridgeport are you looking for??



That was a tongue in cheek reference to a comment that I made ages ago that I didn’t have enough room for a Bridgeport. 

I could probably fit one in now. 
But let’s not go down that road 


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## DavidR8

mickri said:


> You will love having plywood on the walls. You will be able to mount things where you want them rather than being dictated by where the studs are. With the insulation you might even be able to climate control the workshop.



I’m already loving the plywood as I just screwed the VFD for the mill to the wall. 

It definitely won’t take much to keep it comfortable as our climate here is super mild. 
It’s a lovely 64 F today. 
It rarely get anywhere close to 85 F in summer. Most days are 75 F range. 
Winter days are in the 50’s. 


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## mickri

My garage is climate controlled.  Controlled by the climate outside.  95 to 105 during the summer months and 30's and 40's in the winter.  Spring and fall are the only days that I can really get anything done.  Summer mornings til about 9 am before it gets too hot.


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## Aaron_W

Being able to move stuff out is a huge help as I'm sure you have found with the cargo container. I have a carport so once I put up a fence making it more secure I have been able to park stuff there while I figure out the more permanent arrangements.


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## Buffalo21

mickri said:


> My garage is climate controlled.  Controlled by the climate outside.  95 to 105 during the summer months and 30's and 40's in the winter.  Spring and fall are the only days that I can really get anything done.  Summer mornings til about 9 am before it gets too hot.



call me when you have to clean the snow drift off the air compressor.....


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## 7milesup

Looking good David.   I installed 5/8" thick plywood on my shop walls and love it.  Can hang cabinets and what-not anywhere.

I just installed a mini-split and had the guys come out and charge it yesterday.  Good thing too because it is near 90 now with 95% humidity.  Love my new shop!


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## DavidR8

Buffalo21 said:


> call me when you have to clean the snow drift off the air compressor.....



What is this snow stuff you speak of?
(Kidding of course. I grew up in Alberta. -40F was a thing.)


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## Boswell

I also have plywood on the lower 8' of wall in a large part of my shop. Love being able to screw to the wall anywhere I want with no concerns. I can also bump into it with long pieces of steel without damaging it.


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## DavidR8

7milesup said:


> Looking good David. I installed 5/8" thick plywood on my shop walls and love it. Can hang cabinets and what-not anywhere.
> 
> I just installed a mini-split and had the guys come out and charge it yesterday. Good thing too because it is near 90 now with 95% humidity. Love my new shop!



I’m currently just sitting in the space enjoying the relative serenity of semi-order. 
My partner said there hasn’t been this much room in here in the 14 years she’s owned the house. 


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## mickri

Snow?  That funny white stuff.  When I first moved to my house in 2014 the common description for the area was "above the fog and below the snow."  It has been getting colder, not warmer here, and now I get snow.  More this year than last year.




More evidence of colder weather is that the fruit on my fruit trees is getting ripe later by two to three weeks.  And I have been using more propane and firewood to heat the house.  Summer temps are still in the 95 to 105 range.


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## hman

@DavidR8  "Working around all of the stuff was driving me crazy so I rented a container which arrived on Monday. Happy days!  A few pics will give you an idea of the chaos I’m trying to tame."

The "motto" of many of my shops over the years:


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## Aaron_W

hman said:


> @DavidR8  "Working around all of the stuff was driving me crazy so I rented a container which arrived on Monday. Happy days!  A few pics will give you an idea of the chaos I’m trying to tame."
> 
> The "motto" of many of my shops over the years:
> View attachment 329540



This game is popular in my shop as well.


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## FOMOGO

David, before you put that Starret poster up, you might want to install some kind of splash guard behind your lathe, and put the poster higher up, or off to one side. That cutting oil does tend to get around. I'm sure you will have the shop sorted out soon. Cheers, Mike


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## DavidR8

FOMOGO said:


> David, before you put that Starret poster up, you might want to install some kind of splash guard behind your lathe, and put the poster higher up, or off to one side. That cutting oil does tend to get around. I'm sure you will have the shop sorted out soon. Cheers, Mike



Thanks Mike, indeed it will likely go over the toolbox. 
I’m thinking about some hard plastic on the wall behind the lathe, easy to wipe off any spots etc. 


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## GunsOfNavarone

Damn brother! You have it worse than I do! My condolences.... You need to make some hard decisions like I'm currently doing, getting rid of stuff. Definitely keep It clear where you're welding.


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## DavidR8

GunsOfNavarone said:


> Damn brother! You have it worse than I do! My condolences.... You need to make some hard decisions like I'm currently doing, getting rid of stuff. Definitely keep It clear where you're welding.



Clearing out unwanted stuff is top of the priority list. I cannot deal with the clutter and cramped space. 
Safety while welding is paramount for me. 


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## Boswell

you might consider an high quality industrial paint for the plywood. This will keep the plywood from staining. Also you can use a brighter color that will help reflect light and make the shop brighter.


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## GunsOfNavarone

I have seriously been on Zillow looking for new homes with a free standing garage, or at the very least, 3 car garage. I have sized down as much as I can. Thrown out more than I probably should have. Yet I had a NEAR purchase of a Tormach 770 with many extras locally that I had to let pass because there was NO WAY I could afford 6' x 5' (min) to have it here in  my shop. Very depressing. It sucks when you work your whole life, find "your thing" and can't go full bore with because of lack of space. I guess I need my hobby to be sitting on the couch watching TV....


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## finsruskw

Umm....
Where are the corners??


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## DavidR8

finsruskw said:


> Umm....
> Where are the corners??


They're in there...buried deep out of sight!
In actual fact though, there are almost no corners in sight. At the front one is behind the passage door, the other behind the big shelf unit. At the overhead door end there almost aren't corners because there's only about 8" of wall before it turns into  the long wall.


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## DavidR8

GunsOfNavarone said:


> I have seriously been on Zillow looking for new homes with a free standing garage, or at the very least, 3 car garage. I have sized down as much as I can. Thrown out more than I probably should have. Yet I had a NEAR purchase of a Tormach 770 with many extras locally that I had to let pass because there was NO WAY I could afford 6' x 5' (min) to have it here in  my shop. Very depressing. It sucks when you work your whole life, find "your thing" and can't go full bore with because of lack of space. I guess I need my hobby to be sitting on the couch watching TV....


I feel your pain. When I bought my floor mount metal bender I thought "Where the heck am I going to mount this?" 
This is not the biggest space I've had but it is the most equipment I've ever had. Years back I had an oversize double garage with 10' ceilings. 
I had a VW Karmann Ghia  on rollers that I moved around as needed.  Once to avoid a hailstorm I shoehorned  the VW, a Subaru Legacy and my full size Chev 4x4 into that space.

If I had it now I'd be laughing. But I have a better life now and that's what  really matters


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## Reddinr

Congrats on your re-org.  I've been working on mine lately too.  Started reorganizing in 1999.  Should be done maybe next year.


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## mickri

You can buy ceiling paint.  It is designed to reflect light.  Otherwise high gloss pure white with no tint added   That will brighten things up and be easy to wipe down.


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## DavidR8

Reddinr said:


> Congrats on your re-org.  I've been working on mine lately too.  Started reorganizing in 1999.  Should be done maybe next year.


A person cannot rush these things, anything worth doing is worth doing slowly


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## Reddinr

Hey, I just noticed, we're practically neighbors.  I'm a bit jealous of the rain shadow you have there.  I have a rain funnel here I think.


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## DavidR8

Reddinr said:


> Hey, I just noticed, we're practically neighbors.  I'm a bit jealous of the rain shadow you have there.  I have a rain funnel here I think.


Yup, definitely in a rain shadow here. In the winter everything is lush and green, summer, brown, dry and crispy. Vancouver BC gets  more rain than we do. 
I struggle with the rain and grey in the winter. Love the sunny days!


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## 7milesup

GunsOfNavarone said:


> I guess I need my hobby to be sitting on the couch watching TV....



No, that is a waste of time.  My wife does that.  Drives me nuts.  Anyone looking for a wife.  Will give up to a good home, just take over the payments.

Keeping busy is the key to longevity IMHO.  Keep looking around Guns and you will find something.  Sometimes you have to go outside your comfort zone a little.  It will come.


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## DavidR8

I second the thoughts about TV. 
We don’t have cable and only stream the things we want, typically British drama. 


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## aliva

I have same problem, too much for so little space. My garage is detached 25x30 block. At my pervious home my garage was 45x60 couldn't fill it up.
I've learned over the years the more space you have the more you hoard. Every spring I do a clean up and off to the landfill will all the things I've had for 20 years and never needed. 2 weeks later I'm looking for some of the things I thru out. So off to the store and buy again.


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## DavidR8

aliva said:


> I have same problem, too much for so little space. My garage is detached 25x30 block. At my pervious home my garage was 45x60 couldn't fill it up.
> I've learned over the years the more space you have the more you hoard. Every spring I do a clean up and off to the landfill will all the things I've had for 20 years and never needed. 2 weeks later I'm looking for some of the things I thru out. So off to the store and buy again.



I’m definitely trying to deal the previous owner’s pack rat tendencies and avoid creating situation where I can accumulate excess stuff.
Part of my clutter is a collection of parts for two motorcycles, one that needs to be reassembled and sold and the other which will be a keeper. 


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## HarryJM

Once its finished then watch out for entropy.


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## hman

GunsOfNavarone said:


> ... I guess I need my hobby to be sitting on the couch watching TV....


OH NO!  Please say it ain't so!


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## DavidR8

HarryJM said:


> Once its finished then watch out for entropy.



I’ve posted a guard. 24/7. Gonna cost me but entropy shall not enter! 


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## DavidR8

More progress yesterday.
From this:



To this:


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## erikmannie

If this were my shop, I would:
(1) put everything possible on casters,
(2) start with a blank slate & lay out a floor plan,
(3) put a ridiculous amount of pegboard on the available wall space, and
(4) employ sheds or a storage unit for the stuff that doesn’t fit.

I had a serious conversation with my family about ALL the storage space potentially available to me in the house and yard (“Closet space available here?”, “Can I put a shed there?”). I was given part of a side yard & I went crazy with sheds. The sheds are packed with boxes in an organized fashion.

My wife has always been firm about “none of my junk in the house”.


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## DavidR8

I have all my toolboxes, welders and one cabinet on wheels. The mill may go on wheels but need to build a new base first as this one is too narrow to consider wheeling it around. I don’t plan to put the lathe on wheels. 

I inherited the workbench which is eight feet long and 22” deep. It has 16 drawers which is great for storage but it’s too big for the space. I have a stash of full extension, 100 lb capacity drawer slides that I will use to make a new, smaller bench with drawers. 

I have laid out the entire space on paper with CAD templates for all the machines and major items including the motorcycles. 

Adding the partition walls has literally added 25% more wall space. It means I can move all the motorcycle related stuff, oil, parts, etc to the motorcycle space which has gained two walls by way of the partition walls. 

I do take your point on maximizing all available storage. My partner is fully supportive of me making the space exactly how I want it. We recently reorganized our garden shed so that we could move all of the garden stuff out of the garage. There are no recreational things such as bicycles in the garage. 


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## Moderatemixed

hman said:


> @DavidR8 "Working around all of the stuff was driving me crazy so I rented a container which arrived on Monday. Happy days! A few pics will give you an idea of the chaos I’m trying to tame."
> 
> The "motto" of many of my shops over the years:
> View attachment 329540



My shop was put together with this as the blueprint, and I “nailed it”! Looks great David. 


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## Janderso

Ha,
My wife asked me this morning, where are you going to put the band saw?
She says I'm running out of room in the shop.
I says, na, lots of guys have to open the doors and move things out to use a machine tool.
Thanks David!!


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## DavidR8

Janderso said:


> Ha,
> My wife asked me this morning, where are you going to put the band saw?
> She says I'm running out of room in the shop.
> I says, na, lots of guys have to open the doors and move things out to use a machine tool.
> Thanks David!!


Happy to be of service!


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## DavidR8

More progress tonight. 
Pushed through 30 degrees in the shop to paint another wall. 
Drank two litres of water to compensate for my water loss. 
Looks good though. 
Also shortened my bench by almost two feet down to six ft long. 
No pics of that though. 







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## DavidR8

More progress tonight. 
Last night I cut near 2 ft off the right end of my bench. 
Hung my parts bin rack and a wall cabinet. Not sure about the cabinet to be honest. But at least now I can see the floor. 
The tablesaw and upright bandsaw will go against the wall to the right of the grey bench. Trying to get some separation between wood and metal tools. 






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## DavidR8

Hung more cabinets tonight and moved the saw and jointer. 










Moved the engine hoist to its new home. 





The blue motorcycle is going into the soon-to-be completely enclosed space behind the black toolbox. 






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## DavidR8

Huge step tonight. 
Finally have both motorcycles side by side in what will be their dedicated space. 
Major improvement in both spaces. 






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## HarryJM

My shop is a 10x14 wood shed with limited space and I installed shelving on all of the walls and have, since this pic, replaced the short supports with longer ones in order to add another layer of shelving. That and using small plastic boxes sure does work out great for me and seem to make it look  less cluttered. As you can see I also took the time to paint all shelving white which helps with making that small space seem a little bigger and easier on my old eyes. FYI - I have never been a fan of peg boards and have plenty of storage in my three tools boxes under my 10' long bench and two Kennedy 7 drawer boxes. Also everything except lathes and mill are on wheels which now includes the arbor press on the floor.


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## tjb

DavidR8 said:


> I second the thoughts about TV.
> We don’t have cable and only stream the things we want, typically British drama.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We haven't had TV in over 30 years.  I came home from work one day, stepped OVER all four of my sons who were lying on the floor watching TV, changed clothes, and talked to my wife for a few minutes.  She called the boys for dinner, and they asked, "We're not waiting for Dad to get home?"

That night, the TV was out of the house.  Have never missed it.  Now that the kids are moved out with families of their own, we have a very large flat screen.  About once every couple of weeks, we'll rent a movie from Netflix.  We don't have cable or streaming or any of that other stuff, whatever it is.  For that I am eternally grateful.

When the grand kids come over, they often wonder what we do without TV.  I tell them, go outside, close your eyes, spin in a circle, open your eyes, and no matter what direction you're facing, there's something to do.  That's life on a farm.

Well, there's my rant on mind-numbing/time-wasting instruments of indoctrination.

Regards,


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## tjb

Great work, David, on introducing some order into the madness.  Looks like it's coming along nicely.  Unfortunately, I think all of us who enjoy working with our hands fall victim to a frustrating axiomatic reality:  The amount of stuff accumulated is directly proportional to the area of space available.  Don't think I've ever seen an exception to that rule.

Regards,
Terry


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## Boswell

DavidR8 said:


> Finally have both motorcycles side by side in what will be their dedication space.


looking good David.  Looks like lots of storage opportunity above the bikes.


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## HarryJM

Same boat as tjb concerning not having a TV on other than not even a monthly movie. I got rid of my last TV about 30 years ago as I was curious as to what life would be like without one and cannot imagine having to give up what I fill my time with now to watch a TV, other than watching a PC machining video now and then. Also I just kind of got bored with what was on TV at that time.


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## tjb

HarryJM said:


> Same boat as tjb concerning not having a TV on other than not even a monthly movie. I got rid of my last TV about 30 years ago as I was curious as to what life would be like without one and cannot imagine having to give up what I fill my time with now to watch a TV, other than watching a PC machining video now and then. Also I just kind of got bored with what was on TV at that time.


Good for you, Harry!  No question hours spent in front of a TV is a monumental waste of time.  They don't call 'em 'idiot boxes' for nothing!

Regards,
Terry


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## DavidR8

tjb said:


> Good for you, Harry! No question hours spent in front of a TV is a monumental waste of time. They don't call 'em 'idiot boxes' for nothing!
> 
> Regards,
> Terry



Unless of course you’re watching machining, welding or woodworking videos 


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## tjb

DavidR8 said:


> Unless of course you’re watching machining, welding or woodworking videos
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The only notable exception.


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## DavidR8

Boswell said:


> looking good David.  Looks like lots of storage opportunity above the bikes.


Definitely. I plan to add shelving down both sides and across the yet-to-be built wall at the rear of the space.


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## tjb

DavidR8 said:


> Definitely. I plan to add shelving down both sides and across the yet-to-be built wall at the rear of the space.


If you ever have a need to replace your garage doors, you might want to see if roll-ups are practical.  I put those in my shop, and it opens up quite a bit of ceiling storage space.

Regards,


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## DavidR8

tjb said:


> If you ever have a need to replace your garage doors, you might want to see if roll-ups are practical. I put those in my shop, and it opens up quite a bit of ceiling storage space.
> 
> Regards,



It’s funny you mention that actually. 
I just pulled a bike out and stood there thinking about how I could build a platform that would span the space and allow for storage of sheet goods instead of leaning them against the wall on the left. 

The rails are about 9” down from the roof joists so they definitely use up valuable vertical space. 

I wonder if roll-ups are available for small door openings. 
Edit: as it turns out there’s a company which is almost local to me. 
$1500 for an insulated door. Not bad actually. 
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## tjb

DavidR8 said:


> It’s funny you mention that actually.
> I just pulled a bike out and stood there thinking about how I could build a platform that would span the space and allow for storage of sheet goods instead of leaning them against the wall on the left.
> 
> The rails are about 9” down from the roof joists so they definitely use up valuable vertical space.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, they do open up ceiling space, but that didn't even hit my radar screen until after they were installed.  Because my shop was originally built as a pole barn, floor-to-ceiling height was much more than normal.  Roll-ups were the only thing that made sense.  It was only after they were in that I realized the benefit of opening up storage space.  Of course, if you're constantly driving vehicles in and out of the shop, it limits what you can store.  You can't very well have stuff hanging down in the opening if you need to pull a car or truck in.  I partially reserved that kind of access in my shop.  The other bays have equipment in front of them.

Regards


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## DavidR8

More work over the weekend. 
I emptied all the drawers in the grey bench so I could glue the joints in an effort to prolong their life. 
Major tidying and organizing. Feeling pretty good about how it’s shaping up. 







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## francist

Hey that’s starting to look like something! 

-f


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## DavidR8

francist said:


> Hey that’s starting to look like something!
> 
> -f



Thanks Frank. It’s been a bit of a slog in the recent heat but feels good to actually be able to access tools and machines without moving half the contents. 


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## mikey

Hobby shop equilibrium ... sorting out the important things. Toldja'!

Looking good, David!


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## DavidR8

Thanks Mike! It’s coming along 
Here’s the find of the day...











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## mikey

Next time I have a hole in my head I'll know who to hit up for a plate!


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## starr256

Nice compression job. Now, can you find things when needed? I find it is more important to ALWAYS return things to the same place, even if it might seem to be wierd, than to fret over establishing a logical place for things. Anyway, thought I would add my small wood/metal shop gallery. It is a 10X16 cinder block garage built when the family Model-T replaced the carriage. A canopy in front provides additional working space during the "pleasant" weather.


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## DavidR8

Thanks for posting pics of your shop @starr256. I really like seeing other's work spaces and how they organize them. Very well done!
Love the metal on the cabinet doors in the last photo. Brilliant!


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## DavidR8

francist said:


> Hey that’s starting to look like something!
> 
> -f


Those two boxes with red tape contain 100 lb capacity, full extension drawer slides. I found someone selling 22 pairs.
So I have:
24 @ 22"
14 @ 20"
10 @ 16"

My intention is to make a new cabinet and use some of the slides.
Since my lathe table is so deep, I'm thinking about a cabinet on the wall behind the lathe. Put in a pull out shelf so that I don't have to lean over the lathe. Or maybe I'm better off with shelves underneath.


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## Weldingrod1

I love my shelves behind the lathe!

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## DavidR8

Thanks to encouragement and assistance from @mickri I dove into SketchUp this week. Drew a couple of models. One for a new workbench and another of the basic shop.
Probably will help folks get a sense of the whole space I'm dealing with.
So the lathe and mill are on the wall with the passage door and the workbench is under the window on the long wall.
The walled off area is for the motorcycles.




Here's the bench cabinet.


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## mickri

Your are on your way.  Wall space is at a premium in a small shop.   Especially in a corner.  I would think about covering over the window on the left side of the shop.  Not take it out.  Just cover it.  From the pictures I see that the passage door opens to the inside.  It might open things up a little bit if the door opened to the outside.  Don't know if that is feasible for a variety of reasons.  Mostly weather related.

If you haven't done so make your shop drawing a group.  Then you need to draw each of your machines as a separate group.  Nothing fancy.  Just a box of the overall size of the machine.  With each machine as a group you can move them wherever you want to to try different layouts.   I would draw all of your machines outside of the shop.  Then you can copy, not cut, and paste the machine where you think that you might want it.  Use guide points on the floor where one corner of the machine will go.  When you paste you will be able to put the move icon on that corner and move the machine to the guide point.  it won't take you long to get proficient with Setchup.


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## Papa Charlie

Nice, planning the setup is critical to making your life easier and knowing where to run all the electrical. 
I will do a footprint drawing of the shop and then make cutouts of the equipment, benches and tool boxes. Then I will manipilate them to get the best rough layout. From there I go to CAD and do it again, only I look at room for servicing the equipment, space for operator, special tool carts, part carts, path ways to move carts, tool cabinets, raw material around. Also, don't forget raw material storage as well.


----------



## DavidR8

mickri said:


> Your are on your way. Wall space is at a premium in a small shop. Especially in a corner. I would think about covering over the window on the left side of the shop. Not take it out. Just cover it. From the pictures I see that the passage door opens to the inside. It might open things up a little bit if the door opened to the outside. Don't know if that is feasible for a variety of reasons. Mostly weather related.
> 
> If you haven't done so make your shop drawing a group. Then you need to draw each of your machines as a separate group. Nothing fancy. Just a box of the overall size of the machine. With each machine as a group you can move them wherever you want to to try different layouts. I would draw all of your machines outside of the shop. Then you can copy, not cut, and paste the machine where you think that you might want it. Use guide points on the floor where one corner of the machine will go. When you paste you will be able to put the move icon on that corner and move the machine to the guide point. it won't take you long to get proficient with Setchup.



Thanks!
I definitely hear you on wall space. I’ve been thinking about how to make the most of what I have.
Covering the window is certainly an idea.
The wall behind the mill and lathe is a bit of challenge because the fronts of the machines are good three feet from the wall.


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## DavidR8

Papa Charlie said:


> Nice, planning the setup is critical to making your life easier and knowing where to run all the electrical.
> I will do a footprint drawing of the shop and then make cutouts of the equipment, benches and tool boxes. Then I will manipilate them to get the best rough layout. From there I go to CAD and do it again, only I look at room for servicing the equipment, space for operator, special tool carts, part carts, path ways to move carts, tool cabinets, raw material around. Also, don't forget raw material storage as well.



I have a handy-dandy paper plan with cardboard cutouts for the big machines. 
It’s been a big help in trying to figure out how things might actually fit together. 


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## Boswell

DavidR8 said:


> I have a handy-dandy paper plan with cardboard cutouts


Now that you are getting good at Sketchup, there is no going back  In my opinion, doing 3d room and floor layouts is the sweet spot for Sketch up and a great way to dip you "toe" into CAD.


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## DavidR8

Boswell said:


> Now that you are getting good at Sketchup, there is no going back  In my opinion, doing 3d room and floor layouts is the sweet spot for Sketch up and a great way to dip you "toe" into CAD.



It’s a fun learning experience. I tried it previously and for whatever reason it didn’t ‘click’ with me. 
Now I seem to have figured at least the basics. 


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## ACHiPo

David,
Looks like great progress!
Evan


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## DavidR8

ACHiPo said:


> David,
> Looks like great progress!
> Evan



Thanks Evan, every day it feels more and more like my space. 


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## DavidR8

Put a metal top on my bench.
Before:






After:






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## pontiac428

David, how's that double-stick tape working out for mounting the bench top?


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## DavidR8

pontiac428 said:


> David, how's that double-stick tape working out for mounting the bench top?



Almost too well! 

I wiped both the Formica and the underside of the top with acetone to make sure the surfaces were clean before putting down the tape. 

Edit: I used Gorilla” brand double sided tape. 
I accidentally dropped the top and it stuck hard. It’s not going anywhere now. 

I plan to build a new cabinet but this one will do for now. 


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## Papa Charlie

I had a solid oak cabinet that came out of Shells  lab in the SFO Bay Area. The drawers ran so smooth with heavy tool  loads you would  think  it had modern ball bearings.  It was from the 30's. Had to give them up when we left CA. 
Your cabinets remind me of them except the double the number of drawers but the same size cabinets.  
Nice work.


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## DavidR8

Papa Charlie said:


> I had a solid oak cabinet that came out of Shells lab in the SFO Bay Area. The drawers ran so smooth with heavy tool loads you would think it had modern ball bearings. It was from the 30's. Had to give them up when we left CA.
> Your cabinets remind me of them except the double the number of drawers but the same size cabinets.
> Nice work.



Thanks! 
I cannot claim any good work here though as the cabinet came from a local hospital as part of a renovation. It’s probably 40 or 50 years old. 
I had to glue all the drawers back together as they were never intended to hold 60 lbs of drills and taps, hardware etc. 
When I build the new cabinet I’ll make the drawers from 3/4” Baltic Birch ply. 
I lucked into a dozen pairs of brand new 22”, 100lb capacity full extension slides that I’ll use for the new drawers. 


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## DavidR8

Today’s final accomplishment was framing in the wall separating the shop from the bikes. 
A bit of creative framing and it’s rock solid. Electric is roughed in. 
Tomorrow we sheet!
(Pics tomorrow I promise!)


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## DavidR8

And the wall is sheeted!
Next up is build the door frame and hang the door. 
Originally I thought I’d put in a pocket door. I thought about the framing for a pocket door and how it would limit what I could hang on the wall. So I’m going with a standard 2-8 door that will open toward the drill press. 












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## Papa Charlie

This is going to be great when you get it done. Nice that you have twin garage doors instead of one large on. Really allows you to make this a perfect multi purpose shop. Some great ideas here that I will have to keep in mind.


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## DavidR8

Papa Charlie said:


> This is going to be great when you get it done. Nice that you have twin garage doors instead of one large on. Really allows you to make this a perfect multi purpose shop. Some great ideas here that I will have to keep in mind.



Thanks Charlie, it’s coming together really well. 
I love the two doors. It’s a real treat to be able to divide the space. 
@mickri provided a lot of ideas when he re-drew my floor plan and separated the wood and metal work tools. 

The space is larger than I realized. 
Its 13’ 7” from the front wall to the new wall by 18’ 5” wide or around 250 sq ft. 
Plus the space in the long side. 

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## Larry$

I'm in the process of looking for a contractor to build a two stall garage/shop for me. I'm pretty sure the city will allow up to at least a 24 x 32'. I want to be able to do both wood and metal. Don't need to keep a car in but would like to be able to move one in to work on it now & then. I used the Planner on Grizzly's site to move things around. It works reasonably well. My lumber collection is a problem for storage. I'm trying to get 12' ceilings approved. I want to be able to play year round. Want windows that operate and flow through ventilation for nice days. Insulation is a must. 

Things I've considered: surface mounted electrical in EMT (easily modified) Epoxy on the concrete floor Easy to clean, good light reflectance. Solar collector to help heat in winter. A combined heat/cool wall unit. An insulated outside enclosure for the compressor and phase converter. (Needs heat, insulation, ventilation etc.) A lean to roof to protect the dust collector and a return air system. I've probably forgotten more. 

I'm open to suggestions.


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## mickri

Larry$ I would not waste my time on a solar collector to help with winter heat.  Better off to over insulate your shop.  Back when I was doing real estate appraisals I studied everything I could about solar heating systems to create a niche for my appraisal business.  Everyone was waiting for the results from a large research project by a university in New Mexico.  The results of the study were that 90% of the energy savings came from a better built better insulated building with no more than 10% coming from solar heating.   Just my two centovos.


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## DavidR8

And the door is in.
Dopey me assumed this door slab was the same height as the existing passage door. Nope somebody cut an inch off the bottom. At an angle no less.
Nothing that another 3/4” off can’t fix.
Just have to make a new bit to fill in the space.
Oh and cut new pieces to fill in above the door 






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## francist

The worlds narrowest transom window, perhaps?


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## DavidR8

francist said:


> The worlds narrowest transom window, perhaps?



I’m going to have a beast of time making an opener for that! 


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## francist

That’s what I like about you, always thinking ahead....


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## DavidR8

Small update:
I received the necessary breakers to finish off the wiring for the shop.
1P 20A for my 110v Millermatic MIG
2P 40A for my TIG welder
2P 15A for the mill.

I couldn't find these sizes locally
A bit of research turned up a company called Canada Breakers out of Toronto.
Free shipping on orders over $50.
At noon on Aug 18 I ordered them and they arrived today at 11 am. So basically 48 hr. delivery at zero extra cost to me!


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## Papa Charlie

DavidR8 said:


> And the door is in.
> Dopey me assumed this door slab was the same height as the existing passage door. Nope somebody cut an inch off the bottom. At an angle no less.
> Nothing that another 3/4” off can’t fix.
> Just have to make a new bit to fill in the space.
> Oh and cut new pieces to fill in above the door
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I assume you purchased the door at sale?

I won't say that I have had similar issues with buying bargains and I won't say I haven't, just plain not saying.


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## DavidR8

Papa Charlie said:


> I assume you purchased the door at sale?
> 
> I won't say that I have had similar issues with buying bargains and I won't say I haven't, just plain not saying.


Hah! I am also bargain hunter of the highest order! 
The door was actually previously installed in the garage.
For some odd reason my garage had two passage doors, one for each 'bay' of the garage even though there were no interior doors which would block interior access to either side. I pulled one of the doors out when I put in the electrical panel. 
I knew it was narrower, 30" vs. 32" but never once thought it was shorter...


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## DavidR8

Did some organizing last night. 
And some decorating 






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## DavidR8

Stripped the paint off the bench top. 






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## Papa Charlie

DavidR8 said:


> Stripped the paint off the bench top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I prefer the look of stainless. Easy to clean and maintain,  although work  items can skate along the surface too easily  some times. When I had such a surface I would lay down  some  shop rags or cardboard. Not only keeps the item  from sliding,  but also absorbs the oil and collects the  dirt and makes for  easy clean  up.


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## DavidR8

Papa Charlie said:


> I prefer the look of stainless. Easy to clean and maintain, although work items can skate along the surface too easily some times. When I had such a surface I would lay down some shop rags or cardboard. Not only keeps the item from sliding, but also absorbs the oil and collects the dirt and makes for easy clean up.



I briefly thought about waxing it. 
Briefly. Reconsidered when I realized that the top of my table saw is slick like ice because I wax it!


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## mickri

Wrong kind of wax??  Try the wax that surfers use on their boards to keep their feet from slipping.


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## DavidR8

Not huge progress today but got some stuff out of the way. 
Turned the cutoff part of the metal table top into a stock shelf. 





And hung up my clamps. 
I’ll likely redo this but I needed to get them out of the way so I’d stop tripping over them.






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## DavidR8

Here’s the final frontier.
This wall of shelving, 8’ long x 2’ deep has to be emptied and removed so I can finish the electrical and sheet with plywood.
The pile of stuff is various small wood stock on the top left, on the left side, top right is all parts for my NT650 project, at the left under the top shelf is all YZ125 parts, next to that is various flotsam and jetsam,more flotsam with power tools on the lower right. Bins on the bottom hold electrical supplies and plumbing bit. Inside the box marked electrical is a huge box of drywall screws left by the P.O. 






For context, this is where the shelves are relative to the wall I built to keep the motos at bay!





My plan is to run a new shelf (or maybe cabinets) along this long wall, turn the corner and onto the new dividing wall that I built. Thinking putting the shelf about 12 or 16 inches down from the roof joists.

Depending whether I go with 12” or 16” would allow me to stack either two or three layers of these boxes which are 5” tall, 12” deep and 7.5” wide. That would give me 18 linear feet of shelving.







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## francist

I like those shoeboxes too — great for different assortments of parts that you may not have a ton of but still want some organization. I built a whole bookcase full of them when I moved our maintenance shop at work into a new building. Simple tape and felt pen labels are easy yet descriptive.

One thing I’m really getting tired of though is wood shelving. Dark, heavy, and ultimately will sag unless you put dividers in which will always be in the way of something. In the same general move of our maintenance shop I procured six of those chromed wire shelf units from CanTire and again filled one whole side of a room with them for facility and operations supplies. Bright, lightweight, easily and randomly adjustable shelves that can hold a surprising amount of weight. And they  fit shoebox size! Price is cheap, and they’re dead fast to set up with no permanent commitment to their positioning. Might sound cheesy but they are surprisingly useful and economical. Just don’t get too hung up on critiquing the MIG joints , all the legs have screw adjusters though anyways.

-frank


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## DavidR8

francist said:


> I like those shoeboxes too — great for different assortments of parts that you may not have a ton of but still want some organization. I built a whole bookcase full of them when I moved our maintenance shop at work into a new building. Simple tape and felt pen labels are easy yet descriptive.
> 
> One thing I’m really getting tired of though is wood shelving. Dark, heavy, and ultimately will sag unless you put dividers in which will always be in the way of something. In the same general move of our maintenance shop I procured six of those chromed wire shelf units from CanTire and again filled one whole side of a room with them for facility and operations supplies. Bright, lightweight, easily and randomly adjustable shelves that can hold a surprising amount of weight. And they fit shoebox size! Price is cheap, and they’re dead fast to set up with no permanent commitment to their positioning. Might sound cheesy but they are surprisingly useful and economical. Just don’t get too hung up on critiquing the MIG joints , all the legs have screw adjusters though anyways.
> 
> -frank



Thanks Frank, the other thing about the shoeboxes is that they are a dollar at the dollar store. 

I also dislike wood shelving. Especially when it’s designed to hold huge storage bins that no one can muscle into the shelves. 

We need to put some shelving in our basement. I’ll check out the Canadian Tire units. 


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## Papa Charlie

francist said:


> I like those shoeboxes too — great for different assortments of parts that you may not have a ton of but still want some organization. I built a whole bookcase full of them when I moved our maintenance shop at work into a new building. Simple tape and felt pen labels are easy yet descriptive.
> 
> One thing I’m really getting tired of though is wood shelving. Dark, heavy, and ultimately will sag unless you put dividers in which will always be in the way of something. In the same general move of our maintenance shop I procured six of those chromed wire shelf units from CanTire and again filled one whole side of a room with them for facility and operations supplies. Bright, lightweight, easily and randomly adjustable shelves that can hold a surprising amount of weight. And they  fit shoebox size! Price is cheap, and they’re dead fast to set up with no permanent commitment to their positioning. Might sound cheesy but they are surprisingly useful and economical. Just don’t get too hung up on critiquing the MIG joints , all the legs have screw adjusters though anyways.
> 
> -frank



A buddy and I attend a lot of these auctions, mostly I buy to resell but I buy items for myself too. Just have to be careful as the storage unit is full.

One of the things he picked up was a bunch of those wire racks on wheels. Did the same thing you did and got rid of the fixed shelving. Nice part is that if you have to get something big through an area, they can be rolled out of the way pretty easily. There are several advantages to them, one they allow light through each layer depending on what is on the upper shelves. Two, the wire racks don't collect a lot of dust like solid shelves do. Three, they are easily reconfigured for those unforeseen items that we may buy that don't fit on the fixed shelves.

Another buddy bought a bunch of those pallet shelves only these are smaller for boxes and not full size pallets. Man they can hold a lot of weight. Went with the wire shelves too. Another auction treasure. 

These industrial/commercial auctions happen all across the country. You can get some great deals. But they can be dangerous too. Especially the bid online only ones. Too easy to get caught up in the moment. I have seen some items that by the time people stopped bidding they were paying more than if they went and bought it brand new. The in person auctions are the best as people generally go for specific items and you can end up with some extra items depending on the auctioneer.


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## DavidR8

Here’s today’s, before noon progress. 
Emptied the shelves. The floor is now impassable 










Dismantled the shelves. Recovered approximately 100 1.5” deck screws in the process.









Pulled down the old, nasty Saran Wrap grade plastic and put up proper 6 mil poly. Need to run a few outlets still. 
Should have it all done by this time tomorrow. 










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## DavidR8

Bit of a long day but the end result is worth it. 
I wired in four 120v outlets and a 40A 240v plug for the welder. 

















I have only to fill in the space above the panel and it’s all sheeted in. 
A bit of paint and it will be all ready to go. 
Woohoo!


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## WCraig

Isn't it ironic how much woodworking you need to do in order to enjoy your metalworking hobby?



Craig


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## DavidR8

WCraig said:


> Isn't it ironic how much woodworking you need to do in order to enjoy your metalworking hobby?
> 
> 
> 
> Craig



Indeed. 
I’m really glad this stage is done. 


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## Papa Charlie

DavidR8 said:


> Indeed.
> I’m really glad this stage is done.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Working through the basics is always time consuming and often frustrating. But it is this preparatory work that sets the stage for how well the operation of everything that follows is. Once you have completed the walls (electrical, wood, paint and air), then you can get into the fun part which is setting all the equipment and of course the final, which is where you get to use. it. 

I find it ironic that I often will find the planning, development and implementation of a shop design or redesign as much fun as the actual use of it on completion. Sometimes more, which is probably why I find that I never seem to be done with it.


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## DavidR8

Papa Charlie said:


> Working through the basics is always time consuming and often frustrating. But it is this preparatory work that sets the stage for how well the operation of everything that follows is. Once you have completed the walls (electrical, wood, paint and air), then you can get into the fun part which is setting all the equipment and of course the final, which is where you get to use. it.
> 
> I find it ironic that I often will find the planning, development and implementation of a shop design or redesign as much fun as the actual use of it on completion. Sometimes more, which is probably why I find that I never seem to be done with it.



As much work as this has been I have actually enjoyed it. 
I lived with utter chaos for four years, dealing with someone else’s left-behinds and trying to shoehorn my stuff into any remaining space. 

I’m pleasantly surprised at how much space I actually have. Now I just have to clean up from this latest escapade. 


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## DavidR8

Spent a bit of time at the end of the day hanging the new shelving. 
Recycled some of the 5/8” plywood from the free standing shelves. 
Secured to a 2x2 cleat screwed into the studs and supported by 3/4” metal strapping screwed to the roof joists. 

Can barely see one strap near the left end of the shelf. I added a strap at a each hoist. Supports my COVID - weight 







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## mickri

You might want to consider adding a 1x2 glued and screwed under the front edge.  The shelf will bow between the straps if you don't.


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## DavidR8

mickri said:


> You might want to consider adding a 1x2 glued and screwed under the front edge. The shelf will bow between the straps if you don't.



Good idea. I have oodles of lumber from dismantling the shelves.


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## DavidR8

Ok got all the shelving up today. 










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## mikey

See, look at all that room. To think that you were initially limiting the kind of machine to get to fit your space. All you had to do was totally rebuild your space and voila, you can fit all kinds of stuff in there. A machinist will always find a way.


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## DavidR8

mikey said:


> See, look at all that room. To think that you were initially limiting the kind of machine to get to fit your space. All you had to do was totally rebuild your space and voila, you can fit all kinds of stuff in there. A machinist will always find a way.



Know where I can get a Bridgeport? 


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## DavidR8

More progress today. 






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## mickri

Wow.  Starting to look like you might soon be able to use your shop.


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## DavidR8

mickri said:


> Wow. Starting to look like you might soon be able to use your shop.



Thanks!
It’s feeling really good. 
I need to add support to the shelving as per your suggestion. 
I also need to drill some anchors into the floor to bolt down my bender. And make a mount for the ring roller. 

And I’m going to start my welding cart project soon so that I can get my TIG off the dolly. 
Then I’m starting my motorcycle project 


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## Papa Charlie

Dave, 
Your shop is looking great. Funny how we start off with the idea of making things more organized to free up space and end up with it all filled from the items we had stacked up before. But at least it is very accessible and well organized. When I had my shop in the garage of our old house, I had so much stacked every where that too often it took twice as long to set up and put it away as it did to do the project itself. I found myself not doing a lot of projects just because it was too much of a hassle. 
The way you have set up your shop, organized and separated by function is a great way to reduce that.


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## DavidR8

Papa Charlie said:


> Dave,
> Your shop is looking great. Funny how we start off with the idea of making things more organized to free up space and end up with it all filled from the items we had stacked up before. But at least it is very accessible and well organized. When I had my shop in the garage of our old house, I had so much stacked every where that too often it took twice as long to set up and put it away as it did to do the project itself. I found myself not doing a lot of projects just because it was too much of a hassle.
> The way you have set up your shop, organized and separated by function is a great way to reduce that.



Thanks, 
I can definitely relate to the part about not doing projects because it’s too much hassle. 
For me, clutter and disorganization cause me to feel rushed which leads me to do less than ideal work. 
I’m very happy with how it’s coming together. 
The next big job is sorting out wood storage!


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## DavidR8

Slogged away this weekend to empty the storage container. 
Put up some racking to hold stick lumber. 






Sheet goods underneath. 
(No pics of that unfortunately.)

This works marks the end of the major work to get the space in shape. 
Now onto smaller jobs!
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## benmychree

I really like woodworking, including patternmaking, likely because I never had to make a living working at it.


----------



## 7milesup

Storing wood sucks.  Actually, storing any sort of stock, metal or wood, is a real pain in my book.  I used to keep all sorts of little wood cutoffs but now I just chuck them in the wood stove.  I will post a picture of my sheet good storage.  I think it is rather ingenious, if I do say so myself.


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## 7milesup

The first picture is in my new shop.  A method of storing straight stock without having it all piled on top each other.
The second picture is my sheet good storage.  It is on two large hinges fastened into the wall studs, and one fixed wheel underneath that allows it to swing out and away from the wall.  I think mine is about 10 inches wide and just over 8ft tall internally.


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## DavidR8

Nice space @7milesup!
Excellent storage solution 
How big is your space?


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## 7milesup

DavidR8 said:


> Nice space @7milesup!
> Excellent storage solution
> How big is your space?


My new shop is 36x36.
Thank you BTW


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## DavidR8

7milesup said:


> My new shop is 36x36.
> Thank you BTW


Gosh what I'd give for another 16 ft in both directions!


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## 7milesup

DavidR8 said:


> Gosh what I'd give for another 16 ft in both directions!


Oh, most likely $30k or so is what you would need to give.  LOL.


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## hman

7milesup said:


> Storing wood sucks.  Actually, storing any sort of stock, metal or wood, is a real pain in my book.  I used to keep all sorts of little wood cutoffs but now I just chuck them in the wood stove.


My garage/shop in Oregon had a nice woodstove - nasty cold to toasty warm in less than an hour.  Since moving to Arizona, I've had no need for one ... and it pains me every time I have wood scraps, with no choice but to pitch them.  Ah, well ...


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## DavidR8

7milesup said:


> Oh, most likely $30k or so is what you would need to give.  LOL.


I'm actually considering and napkin planning a 10'x9' extension to one of the bays so that I can put the motos in there and I can reclaim that 90 sq ft back. Maybe one day.


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## francist

When we moved into our new maintenance shop a few years ago I sprung for the lumber storage racks from Lee Valley. They cost a bit but they do work well and can hold a lot of material. And, adjustable.


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## DavidR8

francist said:


> When we moved into our new maintenance shop a few years ago I sprung for the lumber storage racks from Lee Valley. They cost a bit but they do work well and can hold a lot of material. And, adjustable.



In retrospect I think that system would have served me better than what I did.


----------



## Larry$

I'm a terrible wood hoarder! I've got planks saved for that perfect project that I've had for 40 years. Running out of time.


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## DavidR8

Larry$ said:


> I'm a terrible wood hoarder! I've got planks saved for that perfect project that I've had for 40 years. Running out of time.


Scraps are the bane of my existence. I'm starting to keep a bin in the box of my truck so that I can get it out of my space.


----------



## 7milesup

DavidR8 said:


> In retrospect I think that system would have served me better than what I did.


If you zoom in Dave on my rack system, I have two design elements incorporated into it.
1.)  The horizontal members that actually support the wood are angled up just slightly (10 degrees, if even) and they are also removable to allow placement along the vertical members.
2.)  The vertical members are close enough together to prevent, or at least limit, the chance the wood will sag, and they are close enough together (16" spacing) to allow for short pieces to be placed on the horizontal members.


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## DavidR8

7milesup said:


> If you zoom in Dave on my rack system, I have two design elements incorporated into it.
> 1.)  The horizontal members that actually support the wood are angled up just slightly (10 degrees, if even) and they are also removable to allow placement along the vertical members.
> 2.)  The vertical members are close enough together to prevent, or at least limit, the chance the wood will sag, and they are close enough together (16" spacing) to allow for short pieces to be placed on the horizontal members.


Thanks 7, did you just make that out of construction lumber?


----------



## 7milesup

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks 7, did you just make that out of construction lumber?


Yes, if I remember correctly.  LOL.
I used plywood for the sides and 2x4 blocking in between.  I think that I glued and air nailed the blocks to the plywood sides.  I really don't think that they needed to be angled up either, especially if the horizontal pieces are tight.  I angled them thinking that they might droop under load, but I haven't really noticed that happening.  I hope that makes sense....


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## DavidR8

7milesup said:


> Yes, if I remember correctly.  LOL.
> I used plywood for the sides and 2x4 blocking in between.  I think that I glued and air nailed the blocks to the plywood sides.  I really don't think that they needed to be angled up either, especially if the horizontal pieces are tight.  I angled them thinking that they might droop under load, but I haven't really noticed that happening.  I hope that makes sense....


Makes perfect sense!


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## 7milesup

DavidR8 said:


> Makes perfect sense!


If you want close up pictures Dave, I could get them for you tomorrow.


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## DavidR8

7milesup said:


> If you want close up pictures Dave, I could get them for you tomorrow.


I would appreciate that 7, I will have to adapt somewhat as I only have about 85-90" of wall height.


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## 7milesup

Sorry for the delay.  Since I came out of retirement I seem to have less time. Who'd a thunk?!

The horizontal members are actually dimensioned smaller than a 2x4.  I did that to clean them up and make them square and consistent in size.  They are 1-3/8" thick by 2-7/8" tall.
I have vertical spacing at 6" but of course space to your needs. 
The vertical members are 3/4 ply with the spacer blocks in between. After I looked at them again I realized I screwed and glued those blocks. 
They were a fair amount of work to put together, but certainly worth it to me.

They work well for storing large helicopters too.


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## DavidR8

Thanks, 7, it looks like the uprights are spaced away from the wall. Do the horizontal members extend through to meet the wall?


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## 7milesup

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks, 7, it looks like the uprights are spaced away from the wall. Do the horizontal members extend through to meet the wall?


Yes, I do have the uprights spaced away by 3/4".  Not sure if that is needed at all, but by doing it that way eliminates the need for me to cut all the horizontal members at an angle.  On mine, the spacer blocks are all at a slight angle to prevent sag.  That was enough work as it was and I did not want to have to angle the horizontal members too.  This allows the horizontal pieces to slide through until they bump the wall allowing full contact with the support blocks.


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## Papa Charlie

7milesup said:


> Yes, I do have the uprights spaced away by 3/4".  Not sure if that is needed at all, but by doing it that way eliminates the need for me to cut all the horizontal members at an angle.  On mine, the spacer blocks are all at a slight angle to prevent sag.  That was enough work as it was and I did not want to have to angle the horizontal members too.  This allows the horizontal pieces to slide through until they bump the wall allowing full contact with the support blocks.



Are you able to pull horizontal supports if needed for more space between layers?


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## 7milesup

Papa Charlie said:


> Are you able to pull horizontal supports if needed for more space between layers?


Yes, absolutely.  With my spacing blocks at 6" you could have any multiple of 6" for room between layers.  The horizontal members just pull out and then can be moved without the use of fasteners, etc.  6 inches is just a random number I picked BTW.


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