# Topcraft's New 10d



## wa5cab (Oct 6, 2015)

*** This thread was split out of the sticky Serial Number thread. ***

Chuck,

Where is the ON-OFF switch mounted (in the headstock casting or in a separate box mounted on the front of the headstock)?  Is the change gear cover fabricated (has square corners) or cast (has rounded corners)?  Best way to answer would be with some photos, starting with a full front view of the entire lathe.


----------



## 'Topcraft (Oct 6, 2015)

Short answers? in the headstock casting, and the change gear cover cover is cast. I promise I will post pics tomorrow. The tag I mentioned is 2 x 3 1/8,  and reads -Atlas Quality- shop equipment since 1911- Atlas Press co Kalamazoo  Mich. U.S.A.-, and is black and silver, their are 2 -96t gears, and it has a strange threading chart inside the cover. what I mean to say, is I haven't run across another chart like it in my reading yet, I have owned it since July, and have just started to clean it up. I will post pics tomorrow


----------



## 'Topcraft (Oct 7, 2015)

Just thinking, could the D stand for deluxe?  or is it just wishful thinking on my part. Until I got it, I knew, (and still know) very little about Atlas lathes. I still have a lot to learn.


----------



## wa5cab (Oct 7, 2015)

OK.  Thanks.  

Try to post a photo of the threading chart.  I have copies of several and will compare them.

I have or have copies of Atlas Catalog 15 and Atlas Catalog 26 (and a couple of earlier and a bunch of later).  So far, nothing in between has shown up.  The back geared lathe photos in #26 match your description except that they show the later compound slide.  They also show the early (two stud) compound swivel.  Those in #15 show early fabricated gear cover, headstock with separate switch box, early compound slide with small wheel instead of crank, and of course early compound swivel with studs.  

I'm pretty sure that the D prefix means 10D, not Deluxe because I have a report of one with an A suffix that is stripped down.  However, what (or whether) cause the nomenclature change from 10 to 10D is still a mystery.  No catalog yet has ever mentioned 10D.  But it was used on a lot of part numbers.  I think that we are going to find, if we ever do, that the defining change was the headstock casting change from separate to integral switch.  

I forgot to ask whether your compound swivel is held in place by two vertical studs with hex nuts on top or by two horizontal square head screws.


----------



## 'Topcraft (Oct 7, 2015)

Not sure, I will check later.


----------



## 'Topcraft (Oct 7, 2015)

Two vertical on each side. One top and one on bottom holding the shaft


----------



## wa5cab (Oct 7, 2015)

OK.  I wasn't aware of any on bottom.  But you have to remove the nuts from the two top ones in order to remove the compound swivel and install the milling attachment, for example?  Then that at least agrees with the serial number quoted in the early catalogs.  Which say that the change was made at S/N 3970.  The note appears as early as Catalog # 25, which seems to have been printed near the end of 1937.


----------



## 'Topcraft (Oct 7, 2015)

I was a bit tired last night, and I misunderstood the question about the compound slide. It has the two vertical screws with half nuts to tighten them. I actually panicked a little when I bought the milling attachment, as it was for the newer dovetail post type with the horizontal square head screws. Easy fix tho, I bought one of the later style off Ebay, and it fits the machine and the mill attachment nicely. Pics are coming


----------



## 'Topcraft (Oct 7, 2015)

Well, let's give this a shot, if it works more to come later.


----------



## VSAncona (Oct 7, 2015)

Wow, that's in really remarkable condition for its age. It doesn't look like it's been repainted or had any botched repairs made to it. Nice lathe. Do you have the tailstock for it?


----------



## wa5cab (Oct 7, 2015)

That is a nice looking machine.

We can see that the spindle belt for a vertical countershaft 10" is 4L310.  Is there a similar number on the motor belt?  Someone asked these very questions late last month I think on Yahoo.


----------



## 'Topcraft (Oct 10, 2015)

I will check the belt size next time I'm in the shop. Just thinking about the indexing holes on the bull gear. I know it must be used as a divider, if that's so, how many holes? I suspect that their could be some heavy math in my future if I ever decided to use it. I will have to clean it up a bit, and see what if any marks it may have. Seems there would be some kind of chart to make it easier to use. Anyone ever used it in making dials?


----------



## wa5cab (Oct 10, 2015)

OK.  Thanks.

There are 60 indexing holes in the bull gear.  But there are no markings on the gear.  The Molo recommends marking the holes that are to be used with a pencil before commencing.  I'm not sure whether or not I ever heard anyone report using the indexing holes.  The holes would not be useful for indexing a new cross-feed dial.  Someone somewhere (but I don't recall which forum) reported using a 100 tooth saw blade for doing that.  There is a chart for using the indexing holesin the MOLO.


----------



## 'Topcraft (Oct 10, 2015)

Robert. Just got the collets, now I have a basic set, and can start looking for other things I need. Thanks, very satisfactory buying  experience.


----------



## wa5cab (Oct 10, 2015)

Sounds good.  I received the three hex collets from Vince yesterday.


----------



## 'Topcraft (Oct 10, 2015)

The belt on the motor pulley is - Dayco 5440 - also got some of the casting numbers. bull gear guard is 10D-246, the one on the left side is 10D-247, change gear cover is 10D-28, upper spindle bracket is D-21, tailstock is 10-6. there are more, but in awkward spots, next time i will see if a mirror helps.


----------



## wa5cab (Oct 11, 2015)

Chuck,

Unless you happen to have a Dayco to industry standard cross reference chart, for the Dayco number to be useful, you have to find someone who sells Dayco and advertises them as Dayco.  Which eliminates most of the on-line sources.  Most do not reveal who made their belts, and most use their own part numbers.  Most V-belts actually carry both the manufacturer's in-house number and the industry number.  The spindle belt happened to get photographed with the industry number visible.  See whether or not the motor belt carries a similar format number.  The Atlas motor pulleys for the 9", 10" and 12" are all for 1/2" FHP belts so we know that it will start with "4L".

The casting part numbers are interesting.  But are you sure that the spindle hanger (upper spindle bracket in your post) is D-21 instead of 9-21?  All the way up through 1966, it is shown as 9-21 in the parts manuals for 10".  10-6 is the tailstock base, not the tailstock.  However, I would have expected 10D-6.  The tailstock itself will be either 10-5 or 10D-5.  You'll find the number in the recessed front of the main casting.  If you should happen to pull the compound slide off of the compound swivel, let us have that number, too.  Should be 9-303 I think.


----------



## 'Topcraft (Oct 11, 2015)

It was 9-21 will check the rest out tomorrow . 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## wa5cab (Oct 11, 2015)

OK.  That's a relief.  Editing PDF's to correct errors is a real PITA.  Usually easy, but very time consuming.

One thing that's puzzling me tonight about parts and part numbers is the compound slide, upper compound swivel and lower compound swivel/cross slide.  We have parts lists of one sort or another dating from 1933 +/- 1 all the way up to 1966.  In all of these, the compound slide has part number 9-303.  Yet we know that there were at least two different versions, one Zamak and one cast iron.  And from photographs of each, including in catalogs or parts manuals, the top of the slide doesn't look the same.

more later.


----------



## Rob (Oct 11, 2015)

Here is how I set up doing dials with a saw blade.


http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/restoring-graduated-handwheels.37294/



Rob said:


> Here is a cheap dividing head for doing dials. It is a 200 tooth saw blade from home depot. Around $10.00.
> 
> View attachment 108089
> View attachment 108090
> View attachment 108088


----------



## wa5cab (Oct 11, 2015)

Chuck,



'Topcraft said:


> I was a bit tired last night, and I misunderstood the question about the compound slide. It has the two vertical screws with half nuts to tighten them.



By "two vertical screws", do you mean two studs?  And what do you mean by "half nuts"?

When you bought the later pintle type cross slide and upper compound swivel, did you get the compound slide with it?  In either case, could you post the part numbers of the five or hopefully six parts?  The newer parts that you bought should be 10-301, 10-302 and 9-303.  I'm hoping that the original parts will be 9-301, 9-302 and 9-303.   If you did get another compound slide, is there any difference between it and the original one?


----------



## 'Topcraft (Oct 13, 2015)

I will try to take pics tonight, it will clear things up.


----------



## 'Topcraft (Oct 14, 2015)

wa5cab said:


> OK.  That's a relief.  Editing PDF's to correct errors is a real PITA.  Usually easy, but very time consuming.
> 
> One thing that's puzzling me tonight about parts and part numbers is the compound slide, upper compound swivel and lower compound swivel/cross slide.  We have parts lists of one sort or another dating from 1933 +/- 1 all the way up to 1966.  In all of these, the compound slide has part number 9-303.  Yet we know that there were at least two different versions, one Zamak and one cast iron.  And from photographs of each, including in catalogs or parts manuals, the top of the slide doesn't look the same.
> 
> more later.


Ok, the top one is 9-303  1, middle 302, and on the bottom, I could not find anything. will post the pics as soon as i can get to it, the two studs that lock things together have a square head that comes up thru the bottom, and are locked by the two half nuts. if you look close, you can see a flat of one of the locknuts on the sideview above. They used the halfnuts to clear the slide above I apologize for the lack of closeups, but I have been really busy lately.


----------



## 'Topcraft (Oct 14, 2015)

Rob said:


> Here is how I set up doing dials with a saw blade.
> 
> 
> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/restoring-graduated-handwheels.37294/


That is an fantastic idea! I love it.


----------



## 'Topcraft (Oct 15, 2015)

VSAncona said:


> Wow, that's in really remarkable condition for its age. It doesn't look like it's been repainted or had any botched repairs made to it. Nice lathe. Do you have the tailstock for it?


Thanks, it has been repainted tho. there is paint on the surface of the one and only plate on the lathe. It does appear to me that it was done quite awhile ago. and yes, I do have the tailstock. I am going to be tearing it down soon, as I would like to inspect it more closely, tighten everything, and quiet it down a bit, before I start using it. I also have a variable speed drive motor that i want to drive the carriage lead screw. It just wont go slow enough for my tastes the way it works thru the change gear. I want to run it from the change gear side so I get both directions of feed. Right now, I am thinking on how I want to do it without altering any of the existing parts. I believe I will fabricate a new change gear cover that will contain the motor and controls. Either that,or put it on the tailstock side and figure out how I can electrically reverse the motor at will. That will require a longer lead screw or a coupling to the existing one. Haven't decided yet.


----------



## wa5cab (Oct 15, 2015)

'Topcraft said:


> Ok, the top one is 9-303  1, middle 302, and on the bottom, I could not find anything. will post the pics as soon as i can get to it, the two studs that lock things together have a square head that comes up thru the bottom, and are locked by the two half nuts. if you look close, you can see a flat of one of the locknuts on the sideview above. They used the halfnuts to clear the slide above I apologize for the lack of closeups, but I have been really busy lately.


Is the middle one (with the radiused slots for the square-headed studs) 9-302 or 10-302?


----------



## Rob (Oct 15, 2015)

[/QUOTE]



'Topcraft said:


> I also have a variable speed drive motor that i want to drive the carriage lead screw. It just wont go slow enough for my tastes the way it works thru the change gear. .



You can also add additional gears to the banjo to change speeds. If you put in a compound gear with a 2 to 1 ratio i.e. A 16/32 or 20/40 it will slow it down in half and still easy to do threading by dividing the tpi by 2.


----------



## 'Topcraft (Oct 16, 2015)

wa5cab said:


> Is the middle one (with the radiused slots for the square-headed studs) 9-302 or 10-302?


9-302


----------



## wa5cab (Oct 17, 2015)

Thanks.  That clears up a few things.  And we even know the 10" serial number (3970) of the change from 9-302 to 10-302.  I'm sure that you will find that the number on the bottom side of the cross slide is 9-301.


----------



## kd4gij (Oct 17, 2015)

That Dayco 5440  isn't the right belt for his lathe. it is only .44" not 1/2", notice how low it is ridding in the pulley. So the length witch is 44" wouldn't be right ether.


----------



## wa5cab (Oct 18, 2015)

You're probably correct.  I missed that earlier, but it looks like a 3L belt.  We may not have the lengths for the belts on some of the lathe variants but all of the belts on all of the 10" and 12" Atllas lathes except for the two A42's on the cabinet models are 4Lnnn.  Which is a nominal 1/2" wide.


----------

