# Newbie with Emco Compact 8 /w Mill head



## Fermic (Dec 31, 2020)

Hi guys, I am new to this machining and I have acquired this Emco compact 8 with mill attachment with missing pieces like the fine feed and change gears.

As arrived.



Now unpacked and on our modified reinforced desk in basement.



My first newbie machine to get know the lathe ( it was unanchored during this first machining thus poor quality )



Our desk




Now, I just don't want deal with shims. So I want to find where I can buy a multifix in Canada ?
And I don't know what's special about the DIN 8606 for this lathe and I heard from *mikey* talking about this standard being serious.

The next step is cut some plywood to slightly raise the lathe above the desk and anchor it, to avoid busting my left hand rapidly turning the carriage.
The missing change gears might not stop me at doing electronic lead screw for it.


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## Jim F (Dec 31, 2020)

An AXA or OXA might be easier to find.
ELS would work.


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## Fermic (Dec 31, 2020)

Jim F said:


> An AXA or OXA might be easier to find.
> ELS would work.



While it saves some money for OXA, that's not even the best choice when I can buy a decent china multifix with enough of holders. This lathe is Austrian made, it deserves more to be with European toolpost.


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## Fermic (Jan 10, 2021)

Okay, the lathe produces too much noise and vibrations when turned on at any speed, I can face any round bars and get decent facing but I get bad chattering during contour cutting across the bar. I hope the WD-40 will be useful for cleaning all my parts of my lathe and I need little help in finding the right kind of oil for oiling gears, pulleys, anything that's not on ways.


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## Fermic (Jan 15, 2021)

Update with questions and photos :

My lathe works great when I anchor it to the desk and all vibrations issues are gone. I can cut these brass pieces with nice finish, but I am learning how to correctly feed in at correct depth or it will chatter and leave these marks.

My concerns is the bed ways might have cast iron dust in there or that's the way oil instead. That's normal ?

I am not sure how I can proceed with upgrading my tool post to the multifix, should I make a brand new bolt to replace the emco toolpost bolt ?

And how far I have to clean up my lathe ?

Thanks !





Looks rough the previous owner's work for this backplate



My "first" time machining something ( I made 2 washers out of brass to bolt my lathe to the desk )




One missing screw, might need to clean the apron and replace these felts




I have problem with these arbors being too short for tailstock ejection, should I use hot glue or something that's removable in the future ?




This is worth to make a fine feed screw box to install to the mill head ?


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## macardoso (Jan 15, 2021)

Nice machine! Should be well built. 

First off, that is still a smaller machine and you'll need to take that into account when planning cuts. Bolting it down to something sturdy will be a huge help! You need to keep the cutting forces within the capabilities of the lathe or you will get chatter. This can be done by reducing depth and speed of cut, or by optimizing your tooling for low cutting forces (sharp tools, small nose radius, small included angle, etc.). Optimal workholding is also a must. Keep everything very close to the chuck and keep it tight. There is a 3:1 length to diameter rule of thumb for how far the material can extend beyond the chuck before tailstock support is needed.

Dark streaks of oil don't concern me too much, but you owe it a good cleaning. Pull of the felts and wash them in alcohol or soap and water. Get rid of all the grit you can. Use some quality way oil like Vactra #2 and clean it well when you are done cutting. If you continue to see dark way oil, you might need to remove the carriage and give the oil passages and ways a good cleaning.

Chuck backplates don't need to be pretty, just accurate and functional.

Buy yourself a couple 12" bars of one inch diameter aluminum, brass, and steel. Get some 1214 and 4140 so you can learn the difference between mild and alloy steel. This is just an expense so you have real material to learn on. It will also enable you to make parts you need. 

Don't use hot glue. You have a lathe now! Throw those parts in the chuck (challenge #1 is figuring out how to hold the taper, I'll let you think on that) and drill and tap the end. Turn up a plug with a thread on it and screw it on the end! You could also do that with the tailstock screw if it is too short for all your tools.

Unsure on your last pic what it is.


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## Fermic (Jan 15, 2021)

macardoso said:


> Unsure on your last pic what it is.



That's the attachement drill press or mill for Emco Compact 5 or 8, it goes in the back. The picture shows the lack of fine feed as shown in https://cdn.webshopapp.com/shops/36...-emco-unimat-3-vertical-fine-feed-attachm.jpg


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## mikey (Jan 15, 2021)

That bed looks pretty chewed up; it isn't supposed to be cratered like that. If I had to guess, the previous owner did not believe in cleaning the lathe often. If it was me, I would take the lathe apart and clean it, especially the saddle. I bet there are chips galore under there. I find it odd that the bed is so scarred up. Its almost as if the locking plate at the rear of the saddle is loose (or missing) and the saddle was able to lift and allow grit to get between the bed and saddle.

Do yourself a favor. Take it apart and clean it all up. If the bed is heavily worn on top of being scarred up, watch ebay for a replacement bed and swap it out. The Emco illustrated parts breakdown is accurate and will enable you to entirely strip the lathe down and put it back together without further instructions.


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## Fermic (Jan 15, 2021)

Yikes, I hope the bed wasn't that damaged. I'll go clean the lathe tomorrow.

I'll check if the saddle is loose or rigid, the rear plate is in fact installed.

After damaging the HSS part-off. Here's the drill chuck with the screw installed.


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## Fermic (Jan 15, 2021)

After some work with reading of parts lists, I got the saddle apart and took pictures of it and the bed as well.

There's many dings and one long scratch on the bed.

Should I go find and buy a new bed for it ?


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## mikey (Jan 15, 2021)

I think the dings and scratches are okay as long as the ways are essentially flat and not excessively worn in any one place, especially up near the chuck. You can stone the high spots down so the ways are flat, then try lightly snugging the carriage lock with the carriage up near the chuck. Then move the carriage towards the tailstock and if you get significant resistance then the ways are worn up near the chuck. If it is really bad then use it while you watch for a bed to turn up on ebay. They tend not to be too expensive but you have to accept there will be a shipping cost. 

On my friend's orange lathe, we had to change the bed due to excessive wear. Had to ship that thing to Hawaii!


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## Fermic (Jan 17, 2021)

mikey said:


> You can stone the high spots down so the ways are flat


Must I stone any burrs with a Precision ground flat stone like PFG Stones at this size of 4 in x 1 in https://www.kineticprecision.com/purchase/precision-ground-flat-stones-gx4xh ? Because there's 4 week lead time for these stones to be made and one more week for to arrive.


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## mikey (Jan 17, 2021)

Fermic said:


> Must I stone any burrs with a Precision ground flat stone like PFG Stones at this size of 4 in x 1 in https://www.kineticprecision.com/purchase/precision-ground-flat-stones-gx4xh ? Because there's 4 week lead time for these stones to be made and one more week for to arrive.



Precision ground flat stones would be great but before we had ready access to those things machinists took a medium/fine India stone and flattened them with sandpaper on tempered glass or surface plates and used them to stone out defects on lathe beds. Given the state of your bed, I would personally go buy a Norton combination stone and flatten it on glass, then stone off the major defects. You are just looking for a flat surface; the defects themselves will not cause issues.


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## Olli-Matti (Jan 19, 2021)

I got mine last May and been fidling with it since. There is still on change gear set for sale at the ebay at the moment, but it is not cheap. Those never are. I did install multifix Aa size toolpost on mine and if you do that you have to modify your top slide. I took 3,7mm off off the top slide and also the original 8mm stud needs modification to make it fit. Well worth a mod to do though, that multifix is a blessing in use.

I did also change the original motor to 3-phase motor with a vfd, reduced noice significantly and makes the lathe very versatile. A must modification if you ask me. What comes to ways and gibs etc being worn or not I would suggest to use them first and learn to adjust the slides and go from there. If still seems excessively worn then might be time to seek new parts. I did suspect a little worn bed at the beginning but now that I have used the lathe and measured and worked with it I think it is a ok. Has some dings near the chuck similar to yours but after turning several parts I get easily inside the 0.01mm accuracy which is fine by me with a all manual lathe. Sharp toolbits are a must and different kinds for different materials. 

Good luck with the lathe, I think you found a good table top machine and will have a great time with it!

I did start machining last May and just month ago finished my build of a model diesel engine. That project was kind of goal for me when starting out with this venture into machining. Take a look, I think it proves the lathe is capable for some fine presicion work: Boll Aero model diesel engine


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## Fermic (Jan 27, 2021)

New update with some purchases.

I bought a nice set of Multifix Aa for a bit too much but not that matters much to me.
Should I add a sleeve or make a new stud ?

The final package should arrive this week with my 4-jaw chuck and many other things that'll make my mill head useable by adding the missing drill chuck.
The real trouble is figuring out how to mill the top of my compound with what I have on my lathe. Hopefully just enough to mill my compound with it.

Also, the previous owner has used one normal nut with some sides cut off to replace the missing T-nut for the tie-down of compound rest to the cross slide. The hex "T-nut" isn't metric at all, I had hammer in my 10mm wrench onto it in order to unscrew. Even better, the Pro Machine Tools Limited is in maintenance mode due UK situation. So I can't replace it right away.


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## Steve-F (Jan 27, 2021)

Color me jealous, mine doesn't even have a spindle .....yet


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## Jim F (Jan 27, 2021)

Fermic said:


> New update with some purchases.
> 
> I bought a nice set of Multifix Aa for a bit too much but not that matters much to me.
> Should I add a sleeve or make a new stud ?
> ...


After you get your 4 jaw you can make your own t-nuts.


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## Olli-Matti (Jan 27, 2021)

Fermic said:


> New update with some purchases.
> 
> I bought a nice set of Multifix Aa for a bit too much but not that matters much to me.
> Should I add a sleeve or make a new stud ?
> ...



I did make a sleeve for my PeWe tools Aa size toolpost. The original Emco stud is 8mm if I remember correct so I machined a sleeve with M8 thread inside partway through to fit snug over the original stud. You need to remove the original anyways to machine the compound so why not preserve and use it after the compound has been machined down. Outside diameter of the sleeve according the new toolpost and you are done.
I did find a friendly machinist at the area who did my compound as I didn’t have a mill at the time.

I will add a couple of pictures to clarify


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## mikey (Jan 27, 2021)

Fermic said:


> New update with some purchases.
> 
> I bought a nice set of Multifix Aa for a bit too much but not that matters much to me.
> Should I add a sleeve or make a new stud ?
> ...



If the hole in the tool post is larger than the original stud then just make a sleeve instead of a new stud. The OEM Emco tool post stud is only 8mm if I recall correctly so not real strong. It is pressed in from the bottom and there is a pin on the rim of the bottom flange of the stud. That pin is pressed into the bottom of the compound and it also locks into a small scallop on the edge of the tool post stud; this keeps the stud from turning. It is NOT a very strong arrangement so if you make a sleeve then also make sure you drill the compound for the small dowel pin that comes with the tool post to resist turning of the post. 

Can you clarify why you need to mill your compound? Is it just to make sure it is flat?


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## Fermic (Jan 27, 2021)

Olli-Matti said:


> I did install multifix Aa size toolpost on mine and if you do that you have to modify your top slide. I took 3,7mm off off the top slide





mikey said:


> Can you clarify why you need to mill your compound? Is it just to make sure it is flat?



The top slide needs to be milled down for the tool holder cutter to sit below the center line.


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## macardoso (Jan 27, 2021)

Fermic said:


> The top slide needs to be milled down for the tool holder cutter to sit below the center line.



I'd remove material from the bottom of your tools or the bottom of the tool holders first!

I have an AXA and I'll occasionally mill down 3/4" shank tools to fit the holders and meet centerline.

The bottoms of the tool holders can also be machined so they sit lower.

I want every ounce of cast iron on my lathe so I'd not wish to mill down the compound.

I'd go to a solid plinth before that.


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## Fermic (Jan 27, 2021)

macardoso said:


> I want every ounce of cast iron on my lathe so I'd not wish to mill down the compound.



Luckily, my grizzly HSS tooling dosen't require that milling on compound. I just need make a sleeve.


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## mikey (Jan 27, 2021)

I definitely agree with macardoso. It is not a wise thing to alter the compound to accommodate the tool post. I also agree that I would make a plinth before cutting up the compound. PLEASE reconsider.


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## Fermic (Jan 27, 2021)

I must clarify that, I won't mill my compound since I learned my pre-cut HSS tooling dosen't require it.


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## Fermic (Feb 2, 2021)

Update with new stuff in pictures like a new 4-jaw chuck but no backplate because I must purchase from a local metal supplier, some 6061 alu, 12L14 steel and tellurium copper round bars ( for my electronic hobby ) and nice set of multifix ( not in picture but can provide on request ) :

I got the much needed parcel of stuff, shame the cut off HSS blade is too tall for my AaT holder :



I sanded my combin india stone with this sandpaper with this glass




That's good ?


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## mikey (Feb 2, 2021)

Looks good enough to me ...


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## Fermic (Feb 8, 2021)

Update Version 2 :

I managed at least deburr my bed with my stone, and the apron can move from near chuck to the far end without getting high rise in resistance, so that's not a fully worn bedways.

My machining attempts :
Well, darn. I messed up twice with my brass. I shall redraw my plans to correctly reflect my missed measurements on my Multifix.
2 photos of my failures,

Left one is caused by using wrong HSS tool with positive rake.
Right one is because I drilled all way like a caveman thinking it will be fine. Well nope, lol.

But at least, I managed to justify the sheer effort to stone my brand new 3/8" HSS tooling just for the brass. And I was hitting some dimensions I wanted with my lathe.


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## derek1ee (Feb 8, 2021)

I recently got a Compact 8 as well, my plan is to remove the compound and make a solid toolpost for it - there are quite a few videos about it on YouTube.


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## Fermic (Feb 9, 2021)

I finally managed to make this part work after I broke the 3rd external thread, so I improvised something with diy brass nut and plenty of filing. There's my multifix in all his glory on my Emco Compact 8.


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## Olli-Matti (Feb 9, 2021)

The sleeve and nut looks great! And you can always mill the compound if you get tired of tooling not fitting later  I wouldn't hesitate, it compromises absolutely nothing on that small compound. If maximum rigidity is needed then a solid post is the way to go. Best is if you have them both available.


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## Fermic (Feb 28, 2021)

Well, I made something with my lathe : alu PCB holder with a magnet underneath it. The finish is nice and I want more of this by grinding a HSS tool for turning and giving better finishes on aluminum.

I am not sure if the ISO 10 oil is the right one for lubing the rest of my lathe alongside my way oil, any suggestions ?
Lately, I have been noticing that my lathe vibrates excessively at 1000 RPM. That's normal ?


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## mikey (Feb 28, 2021)

Looks like you have some chatter marks on top, Fermic.

No, the lathe should not vibrate at 1,000 rpm. Is it belt tension or an old, worn belt?


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## Fermic (Feb 28, 2021)

mikey said:


> No, the lathe should not vibrate at 1,000 rpm. Is it belt tension or an old, worn belt?


With the old belt, it feels loose at A and C pulleys. Requiring to use the tension arm. It vibrates loudly too.

For the new belt ( Gates brand ) 5M590, it can be attached to the A and C pulley and feels snug. Without the tension arm down, there less vibration but as I drop down the arm it also does vibrate too.

Here's pic of my old belt, handling it leaves dust in my fingers :


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## mikey (Feb 28, 2021)

Are the pulleys co-planar? That is, do the grooves line up?


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## Fermic (Feb 28, 2021)

mikey said:


> Are the pulleys co-planar? That is, do the grooves line up?


At my visual inspection, they are co-planar on A and B to C pulleys. Grooves does line up, I don't find any belt twists.

Something to note, the belt on the pulley B does make the lathe vibrate and I don't have a new belt to replace it.

I am not too sure about the main spindle bearings, my hand spin test somewhat give 1-2 turns but if I hand spin faster then I get more than 2 turns.


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## mikey (Feb 28, 2021)

Try tightening up on the preload; you want about 1 to 1.5 turns max with a hard spin. 

Might be time to change that other belt?


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## Fermic (Feb 28, 2021)

Got it, thanks. I'll be getting things to fix my lathe.


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## Fermic (Mar 2, 2021)

Small update :

I managed to tighten the chuck and I got from hard spin test at 1.8 turns, but I broke my 3D printed wrench when trying to tighten it once more.
Still, there's vibrations starting 1000 RPM

Also I made another PCB Holder but this time I damaged 2 HSS pre-cut bits and I need some tips or layouts to regrind mine back in shape. These pre-cut HSS toolbits are "8 pc. HSS 5/16" Mini Tool Set" from Grizzly
One right-hand offset and I tried to regrind with my bench, I also screwed it up. And one turning tool that just stop cutting aluminum.


My broken 3D printed hook spanner I designed to save the cost of getting the metal one :


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## mikey (Mar 3, 2021)

1.8 revs is a bit loose but should be okay for now. 

Show us your tool and we might be able to help. Have a look at this thread so you can become familiar with the nomenclature first.


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## Fermic (Mar 3, 2021)

Here these pictures, it wasn't easy getting close up shots with my phone.


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## mikey (Mar 3, 2021)

@Fermic, could I ask you to take these pics and further discussion over to our model tools thread? It will give a wider audience a chance to evaluate the tool and comment. I already know what I think but it would be interesting to see what the other guys see in this tool.

I can tell you now that we can make it better.


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## Fermic (Mar 4, 2021)

mikey said:


> I can tell you now that we can make it better.


Thanks ! I have contact the person which will hopefully ship these models to me.

I have noticed that with a new belt attached to A and C pulleys, the lathe wont start without giving some hand spin. I figured out that there's a running cap in need of replacement but it might be the type of motor ( split phase permanent capacitor motor ) is too weak to start.

The roller seems to be loose and moving along the shaft ( item 8 in the image ), I have been noticing one youtuber who restored this lathe seems to have this roller well tight and co-planar.
During my research, I found this video about vibrations with the same lathe. I might have make some sleeve to remove the gap between 8th and 3th


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## Fermic (Apr 22, 2021)

Some progress has been made with buying 4" diameter and 1" long round stock, 3" long 6061 alu stock and some plates for leveling my lathe.

I love to hear from others on my take with these plates. One bolt looks tilted ( not shown on any photos ) because I messed up the tapping angle.
The 4" round stock is for my 4-jaw stock but it looks too thick, Shall I cut it in half to save time and metal ?





Thanks to the mill/drill head, I was able to remake the proper metric bolt for replacing the wrong standard bolt out of 12L14 steel. Tho, I messed up and cut the first and opposite side to be less than 10 mm ( measured to 9.80 mm ), otherwise the rest is 10.02 mm which is neat that that's my first milling operation without a machining vice ( used my quick change tool holder with the boring bar holder ).


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## Fermic (Jun 15, 2021)

Well the new setup with these leveling plates wasn't good for me, at least 600 rpm the lathe can wobble even with two main bolts real tight to my bench. I might have resort to use shims with current metal plates directly on the bench with rubber pads between the bed and the plate.
The piece in the chuck is the in-progress 4-jaw back-plate

Not shown in pictures is the anti-backlash part of carriage nut broke off and the carriage gets tight at certain location, the apron's movement can be hard when it runs into some chips on ways even with new felt pads. The lead-screw nut might be busted, so I might have run a triangular file on it to clean up.


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