# Should I buy this lathe? (Been crashed)



## Dave01 (Jan 9, 2020)

Hi guys! New here and looking to upgrade my lathe. Found this one in the local classifieds. It's a Andes 13x40 made in 1991 in Taiwan. its pretty clean and comes with some tooling, DRO, and a 4 jaw chuck. When looking it over I noticed the compound slide didn't extend inwards far at all, and upon looking closer I saw that there was some metal deformation near the gibs, and it was obvious by the markings that it came from being crashed into the chuck. The guy selling it took a file to it knocked off the high spot and the compound moved freely to both limits. compound slide assembly is solid with minimal backlash. However, the cross slide has about one full wheel rotation of backlash, and the whole cross slide assembly can be moved forward/backwards about 1/8". The gibs are tight and there is no left/right movement. I don't know if that play is from being crashed, or from the large amount of backlash...?
I tried turning a small (about 5/8" diameter) steel rod. No noticable chatter. Put an indicator to the chuck backplate- less than 0.001" off, the chuck body itself had 0.0015 deviation while rotating by hand.

3 questions:
-what other test should I perform to see if it's been damaged from being crashed?
-Should I buy it?
-how much should I pay for it/ what is it worth?


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## JimDawson (Jan 9, 2020)

I wouldn't worry too much about a minor crash.  Unless there is some significant damage it is normally not a problem.  The machine looks pretty much like a Jet so probably is a good machine.

Value?  Good question.  A friend picked up one about like that one for $1300 and that was a pretty good deal.  If I needed a lathe and the price was right I would buy it.

The backlash in the cross slide could be that the nut attaching screw is loose, or could just be wear.  But one rotation backlash would probably indicate a loose attaching screw.


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## middle.road (Jan 9, 2020)

If the price is right grab it and haul arse. That is a good looking import. (IMO)
$1200-$2000 based on what I've seen the past several years.
This machine is in a lot better shape and has more features than mine.

Pluses (as I see them)
- DRO
- QCTP with a good set of holders
- Hardened ways.
- Coolant Pump
- Enclosed oil bath carriage !
- And I like the cross slide design as compared to mine.

My 1440 had the same problem. Was ran into the chuck. Gib was messed up. Spent an afternoon and all is fine.

You can always replace the compound with a solid mount until repairs can be made, ala: 
*Robin Renzetti*





*Stefan Gotteswinter*





Amongst others:





						solid tool post compound lathe - YouTube
					

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.




					www.youtube.com


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## machPete99 (Jan 9, 2020)

Chances are the the machine is ok but you could pull the chuck and check for any significant runout on the spindle flange and internal taper to be sure.


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## SLK001 (Jan 9, 2020)

For the right price, I would snatch it up in a heartbeat.  I doubt that there is anything wrong with the cross-slide that couldn't be easily fixed.  The only downside that I see, is the 440V 3 phase motor, which I would have to replace.  You may luck out and find out that the motor can be wired for 220 3 phase.

How much is the seller asking?


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## markba633csi (Jan 9, 2020)

Sounds like the compound damage is right at the end so I think it would mean only a miniscule loss of strength in that one spot-
Price depends on what comes with it- does it come with two chucks or just one? I see a three jaw in the pics
2200 maybe? See what he expects to get and go from there
Check the spindle carefully for roughness or noise, and make sure the gearbox is ok


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## Dave01 (Jan 9, 2020)

Thanks for all the replies guys! Got answers way faster than I thought I would! 
I will go there again maybe Sunday and check spindle runout. 

Besides what is pictured, there is some more tooling inside the stand cabinets- 4 jaw chuck, steady rest, dogs, a few more dont remember what I saw. And it will also come with a 3phase converter that the guy was using to run it. 
His asking price is $5,000 so I will see what kind of deal I  can work out with him after I figure in the cost of the converter as I heard they are expensive.

Also, I could not find any info online as to who owns the brand now, and where would I get parts?


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## ericc (Jan 9, 2020)

$5000 is too much.  Also, there is the sleaze factor: the guy didn't tell you anything until you found it yourself.  I would take off a lot for this.  When I bought my lathe, the seller told me it was no spring chicken.  He saw me tighten the carriage near the chuck, and he told me to expect significant binding before going too far back.  He also disclosed that the backgear was thrashed, and the drum switch wouldn't live much longer.  He didn't drop the price, but I appreciated the full disclosure.  It made me feel a lot more comfortable.  I'm still fixing up the lathe, but it has done much good service, and it has been a joy to use.  And, I never curse that the seller snuck something by.


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## Nogoingback (Jan 9, 2020)

ericc has it right, $5000.00 is way too much, especially for a lathe with problems.  There are two 13" Jet lathes on Seattle CL
right now for less money and one is described as an older machine that has never been used.   For that matter, if you have a $5000.00 lathe budget you could spend a bit more and buy a new machine from Precision Mathews, which
are excellent machines and come with warranties and support.  I'd walk away from that one: you can do better.


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## Latinrascalrg1 (Jan 9, 2020)

For $5000 you could rent a trailor and take a road trip to an area with a better, cheaper selection and come home with a lathe, mill and maybe even a bandsaw and still have enough left over to take the significant other out for a night on the town!


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## kb58 (Jan 9, 2020)

Assuming you don't have 440v 3 phase, you understand that you'll have to buy a different motor, right?

Don't fall in love with it before coming to terms with all aspects of it.

Agree with others on the price. Given what's there and how he's evading full disclosure, I'd offer $2000, and not much more. Who knows what other surprises he hasn't disclosed.


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## middle.road (Jan 9, 2020)

*GADS* I was hoping it was going for cheap. 
It's a nice machine but not $5K nice.
RPC would be nice but you can also use a VFD with it if the motor is 220V.
I flipped a 10HP RPC here a couple of years ago and only got $500 for it.


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## Liljoebrshooter (Jan 9, 2020)

The apron looks identical to my Jet.  It looks to be in very good condition,  minus the crash.
The 5000 he is asking is way to much.   Like was said before you can darn near by a new one for that much.
In my area it would probably go for 2500.

Joe


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## tjb (Jan 9, 2020)

I'd be very careful!  A couple of months ago, I bought a used Sharp 13x40 lathe that looked to be in very good condition.  It had some damage on the cross slide that looked like it must have been run into the chuck.  I got it home and immediately did some tests on it, and there was a huge taper (0.001+ per inch).  It may have turned out to be alright, but it also seemed very likely that the spindle was bent.  In my case, I had a happy ending.  The dealer that I bought it from had a money-return policy which they honored with no argument - and apologized for not having gone through the machine as thoroughly as they should have before presenting it as being in good condition.  I assumed I was going to be in for a real battle, but there wasn't so much as a disagreement.  All I was out was a little time and the fuel for two round trips 75 miles away.  Good folks to do business with.

If you're particularly interested in this machine, I would suggest taking some stock with you to do some test cuts and mic the results.  If the numbers are way beyond normal tolerances, you could be dealing with a damaged spindle.  And if that's the case, it's unlikely you'd be so lucky getting your money back.

Regards,
Terry


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## Silverbullet (Jan 9, 2020)

if he crashed it ands selling I'd be worried . Must be something he knows will be costly or its parts can't be found. 5k with 2k borrowed gets you new . Just be carefull and Ck it out real well. Ck the motor plate it may be able to change wiring to use 220 three phase not sure but if you look you'll know for sure. I don't know if they make them that way , I think some can be used at lower voltage.


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## ycroosh (Jan 9, 2020)

I vote for "I'd pass" for the following reason:
1. Sleaze factor. I'd be concerned that there are other things that the seller is "forgetting" to tell you about that you won't discover unit you start taking things apart. Things like cracked/chipped gears, etc. will ruin your day
2. This is a 30-year old Asian machine. One thing I learned with my old Jet 1024 is that the label doesn't tell you anything about what it actually is and where is was build. I had dozens of people contacting me about the 1024 (I posted about it on my forum some years ago), and it appears that there were at least 6 different manufacturers that made variants of this machine with incompatible parts. Even though Jet still has records of my S/N, they themselves had no clue what the machine was and the manuals (3) that they sent me were all different and din't apply. 
3. Quality of Taiwanese machines from 80's and 90's was about as hit-and-miss as that of todays Chinese machines. Unless you really need 13x40, $5000 can get you a new Grizzly 12x32 gunsmith lathe that will be probably no worse than what this lathe was new, but that will get you warranty (with returns and exchanges), parts availability, etc.

If you are really set on this one, though, check the following things: 
Find a way to check the gearbox (as in ask to look inside and inspect the gears)
Find a way to check that gears in the carriage are not messed up. With a lathe of this vintage the power feed worm gear can be worn out and the half-nut can be chewed up.
Check that the spindle taper is intact and is running true
Run the spindle for 20-30 minutes at high speed and check bearing temperature and listen for new noises
Check that the tailstock not high or low (i.e. the centers are at the same height) and the quill is not loose (especially when at the outer extreme of it's travel).
Tighten the gibs on the cross slide and see if it's not binding. The ways on these machines are hardened and take some effort to wear out; cross slide dovetails wear out fast, especially if the lathe wasn't kept clean and properly lubricated. Do the same for the compound as well.

Hope this makes sense
Yuriy


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## Aukai (Jan 10, 2020)

440 is a nasty voltage, if your not aware of it, it will reach out, and grab you with devastating results.


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## mmcmdl (Jan 10, 2020)

Aukai said:


> 440 is a nasty voltage, if your not aware of it, it will reach out, and grab you with devastating results.



Just what I needed to hear .  I'm surrounded by it hear , and all my machines other than the grinder are 440 , which I will change soon enough .
I'll add this , we've had more than 1 person get hit with 440 in here , and they are still here !


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## Aukai (Jan 10, 2020)

If proper procedures are followed, it MIGHT not be a problem, open power lines, and back feeding circuits, not good. At best bad handling, flash burns, at worst dead, and crispy.


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## mmcmdl (Jan 10, 2020)

Everytime I have to change out the heaters in the dies , I'm shakin in my boots . Wires everywhere , water jets firing away and constantly blowing fuses . I think I posted about this some time ago , but I'm no longer able to change fuses or do anything electrical . ( which doesn't make me sad in the least ) It is now strictly saved for licensed electricians only .


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## Aukai (Jan 10, 2020)

As it should be for that one. At one of my part time jobs, just to turn on breakers, was a major to do(industrial setting). I have 911 calls you don't want to know about, and I'd like to forget


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## mmcmdl (Jan 10, 2020)

Yep , we had a major accident here in the past year which really opened the parent company's eyes . Safety is job one now as it always should've been . The company was lacking for some time in the past and are now getting caught up to codes . We threw out dumpster loads of ladders because a contractor told the manager her couldn't get on it . No inspection notice . Threw them all out and were replaced with new . Anything and everything out of the normal order is reported each morning now , pictures taken and immediate action taken . We are improving things , just hope we're not getting too expensive .


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## Aukai (Jan 10, 2020)

Sounds like a job I could do, environmental health, and safety, one of my part time jobs. I think I've high jacked the OPs thread enough. Go answer your PMs....


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## ddickey (Jan 10, 2020)

I was blessed with wearing these a few times at my old job. Racking in and out 4160v high current breakers. Pass on that lathe to many unknowns for that amount.


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## Aukai (Jan 10, 2020)

HAHA, looks familiar......


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## Dave01 (Jan 11, 2020)

Thanks for all the input guys! 
The guy selling it is an older man who got more into woodworking than metal and is the reason for the sale. Hes a good guy and appears to genuinely not know that it had been crashed. it appears that he has not used it much himself, and probably wasn't him who crashed it. I will go there again with a mic and indicator and check out the spindle and runout, and see what I can work out on the price.


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## Tim9 (Jan 11, 2020)

If the price was right,I’d snatch that lathe in a New York second. After I had it all tweeked and tuned, I’d probably sell my Clausing. And I really like my Clausing. But that looks like a very nice lathe. Only thing I’d look into is find out availability of service parts. But, if not easily serviceable on the parts end.... even that in many cases can be worked around in my opinion. We are hobby machinist.
That looks like a very nice Taiwan lathe. 
  But, 5000 is not the right price. I’d have thought more like 2k
Maybe 2500.  Manual machines are being moved out of most production shops. Repair shops still using them. But...he did crash it. Plus...I would think that there would be lots of heavy iron in your area. 
   Dickey, whenever I see those suits....I get the jitters. Watched some YouTube videos a while back about arch-flash. That’s some scary crap.


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## Packard V8 (Jan 11, 2020)

As previously mentioned, that lathe was marketed under a dozen different brand names, including Grizzly and upgraded several times over a twenty year span.  Ours was an off-brand label few had ever heard of, but with some digging into the Grizzly website, I was able to find a gear for the power Y-axis feed, so some parts are still available.

jack vines


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## ThinWoodsman (Jan 14, 2020)

Agreed with what has been posted above - 5K is way way way too much. As mentioned above, 1990s Taiwan was not 2020s Taiwain: quality was not guaranteed like it is today. A new Taiwan lathe would not cost much more, and would have no guesswork.

The cost doesn't really add up. Let's say 2K for the base unit (though really it would be 1K if it came with nothing). The rotary phase converter? I paid under a K for a new American Rotary that powers the entire shop (garage sized, just two machines). Chucks? A new Bison will run around a K. DRO? Again, probably a K, though you could certainly spend a lot more. So the extra 3K is not really any savings - you could buy all of the high-ticket add-ons new for the same amount of money.

So: counter with 2k, or pass. Maybe 3K if he moves it for you.


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## north1 (Jan 14, 2020)

It has been my experience when trying to buy a used lathe the seller will balk at 2k and hold out for a sucker at 5k.  If he doesn’t find one he will let it sit where it is.  Perhaps my experience is simply a result of being in a machinery desert.  I agree that much more than 2k is too much.  Hope it works out in your best interest either way.


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## BGHansen (Jan 14, 2020)

My personal "pay point" for good used is at most 67% of new price.  $5K seems a little high.  I have a Grizzly G0709 14" x 40" with all the bells & whistles (DRO, taper attachment, 5C collets, 40+ QC tool holders, etc. etc.) and I'd be surprised to get $5K if it was for sale.  The one you are looking at would be a very nice machine to have at the right price.

Here are some Craig's List lathes in WA/OR area for some comparison shopping.  I used the search engine "www.searchtempest.com" for Craig's list shopping.  You can specify a price range, drive distance, etc.  There were others in your area.  You could at least use some of these ads to show the seller that there are other options out there for less.  

To your original question, I wouldn't be too worried about the crash.  My dad was a high school shop teacher.  I bought at auction the first lathe he ordered for the school when the shop was originally set up.  The compound has some "character" where kids ran it into the chuck (Clausing 5418).  The lathe is still a joy to run.

Bruce


12 x 36 Grizzly 4003, asking $3300 (little high)








						12"X 36" Gunsmith Lathe
					

Grizzly model G4003G Metal Lathe. Has a homemade taper attachment and some other extras. It weights around 1300 pounds. Buyer is responsible for transport. NEW this model sells for $3950.00 plus...



					oregoncoast.craigslist.org
				




13 x 40 Jet - asking $3800








						Jet Lathe - tools - by owner - sale
					

Jet brand lathe with tooling. Model GHB1340 541 two nine 7- four 0 six 0



					eugene.craigslist.org
				




14 x 36 Clausing - asking $3K








						Metal Lathe 14x36 Variable Speed
					

Clausing Variable Speed metal lathe. Runs on three phase.



					portland.craigslist.org


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## Tim9 (Jan 16, 2020)

Machinery deserts definitely affect hobby level machines. In fact, areas up north with basements being the norm seem to make lighter machines go for a premium while that same machine wouldn’t get that premium price in States where ranch houses with two car garages are the norm. It’s all relative.


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## Chips O'Toole (Jan 16, 2020)

The lathe and condition look very nice, but the price seems nuts. Depends partly on your area, however. I would think a machine like that would go for $3500 with tooling, if it had not been crashed. I would expect a big discount for the repair cost.

As for electricity, I would get a VFD, and based on recent experiences, I would go with a Lapond. I have a Hitachi VFD, and their support is worthless. Lapond actually tries to help customers, and the VFD would only cost around a hundred bucks.

Parts for the carriage ought to be available somewhere. Eisen Machinery helps people find parts for Taiwan machinery. You can find them online. I would ask the seller to let me open the carriage up, identify the screwed-up parts, and find replacements before buying.


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## DavidR8 (Jan 16, 2020)

@Chips O'Toole Can you use a VFD on a 440v motor?


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## DavidR8 (Jan 16, 2020)

Dave01 said:


> Thanks for all the input guys!
> The guy selling it is an older man who got more into woodworking than metal and is the reason for the sale. Hes a good guy and appears to genuinely not know that it had been crashed. it appears that he has not used it much himself, and probably wasn't him who crashed it. I will go there again with a mic and indicator and check out the spindle and runout, and see what I can work out on the price.


It strikes me as odd that this lathe is 3ph 440v yet the seller sounds like a hobbyist not someone who had access to industrial power.


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## Chips O'Toole (Jan 16, 2020)

I have never bought a VFD for anything but 240, but I know they make them for other voltages. I would check Ebay for a new motor. It's usually easy to get a nice 3-phase motor for a hundred bucks or less.


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## ACHiPo (Jan 17, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> @Chips O'Toole Can you use a VFD on a 440v motor?


I think you need a transformer to deal with the voltage difference in addition to the proper VFD.


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## Chips O'Toole (Jan 17, 2020)

Check this out.









						Delta VFD-V series Inverter VFD-007V43A-2 Frequency Drive 1HP/3PH 460V  | eBay
					

Delta VFD-F Inverter Drive. All VFD-V series drives are constant and variable torque rated. Orders under 150 lbs. Orders above 150 lbs. Model Number: VFD-007V43A-2. Piscataway, NJ 08854.



					www.ebay.com


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## DavidR8 (Jan 17, 2020)

Wow, that's expensive! I would expect a new motor would be less?


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## PJE (Jul 18, 2021)

This reply is more than a year later.

I own the same lathe, although another name.  My nephew that is a Lathe expert with 35 years of precision machining experience on lathes, just serviced mine.  His opinion is that this lathe is vergood in comparison with other Eastern imports.   We just replaced the spindle bearings, and O-rings in the auto feed Apron.  He adjusted the Tool slide, Carriage and Saddle.  The play on all the spindles was also adjusted. The Lathe feels as new now.  I was on the verge of buying a new machine and thus own him a lot. I did the cleaning and painting and assisted with the other work. See attached files.


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## Ryan Lou (Jul 20, 2021)

For the right price, I would snatch it up in a heartbeat.


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## Dave01 (Jul 30, 2021)

PJE said:


> This reply is more than a year later.
> 
> I own the same lathe, although another name.  My nephew that is a Lathe expert with 35 years of precision machining experience on lathes, just serviced mine.  His opinion is that this lathe is vergood in comparison with other Eastern imports.   We just replaced the spindle bearings, and O-rings in the auto feed Apron.  He adjusted the Tool slide, Carriage and Saddle.  The play on all the spindles was also adjusted. The Lathe feels as new now.  I was on the verge of buying a new machine and thus own him a lot. I did the cleaning and painting and assisted with the other work. See attached files.



Looks really clean! I am thinking to take mines apart for service sometime soon.

(BTW this is an old thread, and I did end up picking it up. Loving it, love the 1.625 spindle through bore!!)


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