# The Voron kit build thread



## Ken226 (Nov 10, 2022)

I thought I'd start a thread for those of us building Voron printers.

I just ordered my kit this morning.  On a whim, I decided to spring for the black and red CNC machined aluminum parts kit to go with it.  Hopefully it adds some rigidity and quality to the build.



I downloaded a 3d CAD assembly model from vorondesign.com,  so during the project I can see how everything goes together, to aid the info from the manual.  Plus, I can easily  export and print any parts not included in the kits I ordered, direct from the CAD model.


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## 7milesup (Nov 10, 2022)

This is awesome @Ken226!  
I have not ordered mine yet but I am hoping to in the next couple of weeks.  I am keeping projects like this out of the family budget, so my part-time job has to finance this stuff.  But, that gives me time to research and make informed decisions.  I also have the Orange Pi in my hands so moving forward on understanding that end of it will benefit the final result.


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## TorontoBuilder (Nov 10, 2022)

I keep planning on a voron build and every time I get close a new machine comes up for sale... 

I have a 3d printer so it's hard to say yeah I'll take a new voron over a chipmaster lathe. I look forward to seeing the builds


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## Ken226 (Nov 10, 2022)

I got my first Voron parts printing on the Flashforge now.

I'm gonna try to have the printed parts done by the time I get my kit.  I think the lead time is a couple weeks from Voronkits com


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## 7milesup (Nov 10, 2022)

Jeepers @Ken226, you have lit the afterburners!


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## Ken226 (Nov 10, 2022)

Anyone seen the X and Y motor/belt configuration on these yet....

A very interesting design.   Definitely not the usual one motor per axis design.


Both motors rotate opposite directions simultaneously, same speed, to move Y positive and negative.

Both motors rotate the same direction, same speed, simultenously moves the X positive and negative.

Differences in motor direction and and speed move both X and Y simultenously.

With one motor stopped and the other turning, the carriage would move 45° diagonally.  It's a very interesting design.

So, that's what the "CoreXY" means, in the description.


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## 7milesup (Nov 10, 2022)

Your linky is no worky Ken, but yeah, the CoreXY is a rather interesting design.


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## Ken226 (Nov 10, 2022)

Very neat.  It explains why they have a reputation for speed. 

Each axis has 2 motors driving it.  Donta wanna crash one of these.


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## 7milesup (Nov 11, 2022)

I just ordered my kit with the Mosquito Magnum hotend.  Wooot!


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## Ken226 (Nov 11, 2022)

I downloaded all of the .stl files for it here.  the zip file contains skipper and octopus firmware, manuals, CAD models, all of the .stl files.  Pretty much everythign.:









						Release VORON V2.4r2 · VoronDesign/Voron-2
					

Release Notes This release contains QoL updates and improvements to the official release of the VORON2.4 3d printer. For more detailed information about V2.4 itself, please refer to the official re...




					github.com
				




There are alot of them, and the descriptions aren't that great.  Its a 250+ megabyte download.

I you download the CAD assembly model, they have a .f3d model if you use Fusion, and a .step version if you use something else.

One issue I found with the CAD model, is that they have all of the "variant parts" from the 250, 300 and 350mm versions assembled together in once cad file.  So lots of the skirts, etc are multiple parts superimposed over one another and really hard to decipher which goes to which version.  It would be a pain in the butt to clean up that model.

Luckily, the .stl zip package from the link above does have them separated into folders for each size printer.


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## 7milesup (Nov 11, 2022)

The link that you provided has the STEP files, but I do not see the STL files.  What am I missing?


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## Ken226 (Nov 11, 2022)

Under "Assets".

The "source code" .zip file







Download and unzip it,

then its in the .stl folder


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## 7milesup (Nov 11, 2022)

Interesting... I did that but it automatically unzipped to STEP files.  I may have an association set incorrectly.  I am not home at the moment but I will take a look at it as soon as I get home.


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## WobblyHand (Nov 11, 2022)

Just an uninformed question. but can you create stl files from STEP?


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## Ken226 (Nov 11, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Just an uninformed question. but can you create stl files from STEP?




Yes.  Any good CAD program can import .step files.  Then you can work on it, modify it, and export it as a step file.

but, when you have a hundred parts to print,  it's a pain in the butt.  It has a few steps to each one.

Of course, since these are custom built printers,  we will be modifying at least a few of these files anyway to our specific hardware.  But for the majority of these parts,  it would be a big time saver to just import the .stl directly into the 3d print slicer.


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## Ken226 (Nov 11, 2022)

I wonder if i can drag/drop .stl files into the forum.  Test.

Thats a Voron fan grill, if someone can try opening it in a slicer.


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## Ken226 (Nov 11, 2022)

Here is a set of side skirts and a fan support/skirt. It needs a side skirt set and a fan support on each side.


After wasting a few hours on failed prints, im figuring out that these things dont have much surface contact with the bed and tend to lift.  adding a raft has solved that issue.

Definitely use a raft when printing these low contact area parts.



Here is the print preview, with a raft under the part.








Edited to include the front skirt set,  rear left and right skirts with power plug and switch holes, and the rear center skirt.


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## 7milesup (Nov 11, 2022)

I got the files to show up @Ken226


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## Ken226 (Nov 11, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I got the files to show up @Ken226



A quick question, just to clarify.  Trying to educate myself.

My Voron kit comes with the Octopus v1.1 board and a display.  Is the Octopus v1.1 capable of running Marlin or Klipper, and running the 3d printer to print directly from a USB drive or SD card without the need for a Raspberry Pi/Orange P, etc?

I have an Orange PI on the way, but should I be unable to get it to work, will I stil be able to print direct from USB/SD cards that are plugged into the Octopus v1.1?

I'm fairly competent with mechanical things and PC hardware,  but I have zero experience with Linux based single board computers.


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## 7milesup (Nov 11, 2022)

@Ken226 My understanding is "yes," Ken.   You can print via USB through the Octopus board.   The reason that I say "yes" is that if you are printing from your computer that you are doing other tasks on, the print may fail if computer decides that there is something more important, like downloading an update for an installed program or any of the other myriad of tasks that go on behind the scenes.
Having a dedicated SBC like an Orange Pi or RPi eliminates that possible fail point.

I hope that I got that correct.  Like you, I am weak in the electronics/software side of this build.  It appears that @AlanB has the most strength among us in that department.

EDIT:  If you look at the wiring diagram *on Big Tree Tech's website**, *you will note that there is no SD card slot.  There is a USB port, but to utilize an SD card you would need that RPi, Orange Pi or a dedicated computer to utilize an SD card.

EDIT #2:  I have full confidence that we can get this to run on the Orange Pi  (well, maybe not FULL, but 99.5% confidence


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## Ken226 (Nov 11, 2022)

7milesup said:


> @Ken226 My understanding is "yes," Ken.   You can print via USB through the Octopus board.   The reason that I say "yes" is that if you are printing from your computer that you are doing other tasks on, the print may fail if computer decides that there is something more important, like downloading an update for an installed program or any of the other myriad of tasks that go on behind the scenes.
> Having a dedicated SBC like an Orange Pi or RPi eliminates that possible fail point.
> 
> I hope that I got that correct.  Like you, I am weak in the electronics/software side of this build.  It appears that @AlanB has the most strength among us in that department.
> ...



I wasnt talking about running it from a PC or laptop.  I was wondering if it would work like my flashforge does.

Basically, plug the SD card or USB drive containing the g code into the board, select the correct g-code file on the display and start the print.

So, Marlin or Klipper doesn't run on the Octopus board as an operating system,  and allow printing?


It kinda sounds like my G0704 CNC, in that it uses a dedicated windows PC to run the Mach3 program,  and Mach3 runs the stepper motors via the breakout board and smoothstepper?

Is the octopus board basically like the smoothstepper, or breakout board?


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## 7milesup (Nov 11, 2022)

@Ken226    I think that I should probably keep my mouth shut.  I thought I understood the role of the Octopus, but now that I discovered it does have a Micro SD card slot (TF card slot, actually).   
I believe that your analogy to the G0704 is correct.  The Octopus v1.1 has seven stepper drives, inputs for the end stops (hard or sensor), fan control, and probe, to name a few.  The RPi or Orange Pi would run the firmware, such as Marlin or Klipper, the same as your Mach 3 running on your computer.  Cripes, I hope that I got that right.


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## Ken226 (Nov 11, 2022)

7milesup said:


> @Ken226    I think that I should probably keep my mouth shut.  I thought I understood the role of the Octopus, but now that I discovered it does have a Micro SD card slot (TF card slot, actually).
> I believe that your analogy to the G0704 is correct.  The Octopus v1.1 has seven stepper drives, inputs for the end stops (hard or sensor), fan control, and probe, to name a few.  The RPi or Orange Pi would run the firmware, such as Marlin or Klipper, the same as your Mach 3 running on your computer.  Cripes, I hope that I got that right.



What's confusing me is that the Octopus is mentioned as working something like the SKR boards used in Ender 3d printers.

A friend of mine has an Ender3,  and it works like my Flashforge.  Just plugs in the SD card, turns the knob to select the right file, and starts printing.  There's nothing like a Raspberry Pi, or laptop anywhere near the setup.  

The PC is just used for slicing, and saving the g-code file onto the SD card.

Maybe @AlanB can drop in and educate me.


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## 7milesup (Nov 11, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> Maybe @AlanB can drop in and educate me.


And me!


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## Ken226 (Nov 11, 2022)

Also,  the Q&A on Amazon gives me the impression it can run without a separate computer.

If Marlin or Reprap is installed on it.

With Klipper,you need a separate computer like Raspberry Pi, Orange Pi, PC, etc.


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## Ken226 (Nov 11, 2022)

I'm seeing reviews that give it a thumbs up running Marlin directly, with no Raspberry Pi.

If so, I'll be able to use it like that untill I gain some experience/competence with the Orange Pi/Klipper combo.


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## 7milesup (Nov 11, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> I'm seeing reviews that give it a thumbs up running Marlin directly, with no Raspberry Pi.


That appears true.  If you want to run Klipper though, an SBC would be needed.


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## AlanB (Nov 11, 2022)

Klipper and Marlin operate differently.

Marlin resides on the controller and reads the gcode from a storage device or serial port or USB serial. It converts the gcode into motion commands. It runs directly on the controller board, such as the Octopus. Configurations are changed by adjusting the configuration in the source code, recompiling Marlin and reloading the program memory on the controller. There is no requirement for a high level processor such as Raspberry Pi. This is the setup that most all 3D printers use. Adding a Raspberry Pi with Octoprint for high level controls, remote access, etc is optional.

Klipper splits the job into separate processors - the gcode interpretation and motion planning is done in one processor (such as a Raspberry Pi), and the actual real time low level motion controls are done by a controller board or boards (such as the Octopus). The configurations are done with text files on the high level processor (such as Raspberry Pi). The Pi (or other high level processor) is not optional.


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## Ken226 (Nov 12, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Klipper and Marlin operate differently.
> 
> Marlin resides on the controller and reads the gcode from a storage device or serial port or USB serial. It converts the gcode into motion commands. It runs directly on the controller board, such as the Octopus. Configurations are changed by adjusting the configuration in the source code, recompiling Marlin and reloading the program memory on the controller. There is no requirement for a high level processor such as Raspberry Pi. This is the setup that most all 3D printers use. Adding a Raspberry Pi with Octoprint for high level controls, remote access, etc is optional.
> 
> Klipper splits the gcode interpretation and motion planning into separate processors - one processor (such as a Raspberry Pi), and the actual low level motion controls are done by the controller board or boards (such as the Octopus). The configurations are done with text files on the high level processor (such as Raspberry Pi). The Pi (or other high level processor) is not optional.



Thank you for the explanation, that clears things up.

I'm going to try to use Klipper via the Orange Pi.  I'll keep my eyes peeled for a reasonably priced Raspberry Pi in the meantime,  and Keep Marlin in mind as plan-c.

Thanks again.


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## AlanB (Nov 12, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> Thank you for the explanation, that clears things up.
> 
> I'm going to try to use Klipper via the Orange Pi.  I'll keep my eyes peeled for a reasonably priced Raspberry Pi in the meantime,  and Keep Marlin in mind as plan-c.
> 
> Thanks again.



Excellent plan. 

I see that Adafruit had some Pi4 2GB boards this week at regular prices. Perfect for Klipper. 

The Voron discord has many folks who are experienced with Klipper and the Octopus board and can help get things configured.


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## 7milesup (Nov 12, 2022)

That was an excellent explanation @AlanB   Thank you so much.


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## Ken226 (Nov 13, 2022)

I picked up one of these 5" Touchscreen displays on Amazon for about 30$.  Supposedly its compatible with Raspberry Pi and Orange Pi.

kuman 5 inch Resistive Touch Screen 800x480 HDMI TFT LCD Display Module with Touch Panel USB Port and Touch Pen for Raspberry Pi 3 2 Model B RPi 1 B B+ A A+ SC5A https://a.co/d/eufwJPi

Taking Measurements from the CAD model, It looks like if i use the front skirt panels made for the 250mm version, on my 300mm version,  It will  leave about a 6.5" gap in the middle, which will be just about right for the 5" display.  

I spent some time today modifying the .step file for the  Mini12864 display that comes with the kit.  It was quite a bit of work, but I think this will work for the 5" touchscreen.







The red bezel insert is screwless and snaps in (hopefully) using 3 circular dovetail snaps, if everything goes as planned.


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## 7milesup (Nov 13, 2022)

Two questions...
1.)  My understanding is that this touch screen uses the GPIO pins on the SBC.  Is that ok? 
2.)  Would you mind sharing the STEP file?


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## Ken226 (Nov 13, 2022)

7milesup said:


> Two questions...
> 1.)  My understanding is that this touch screen uses the GPIO pins on the SBC.  Is that ok?
> 2.)  Would you mind sharing the STEP file?



Yea. For the touch screen to work, I'll have to connect to the Orange pi using the 26 pin GPIO.

 I had to order the 26 pin mal/female cable on  eBay. Oddly, I couldn't find one on Amazon at all.

I've already hooked the screen up to my laptop via hdmi and can say for sure,  it works. But, definitely no touchscreen using HDMI.









						4-inch 26-Pin 2.54mm-Pitch Male/Female 26-wire IDC Flat Ribbon Extension  | eBay
					

This cable is made to connect a Gertboard to a Raspberry Pi.  It can also be used any other applications that requires 26-pin male/female ribbon/ IDC extension cable. The ribbon cable featured a 26-pin Male connector on one end and a 26-pin female connector on the other end.



					www.ebay.com
				





I'll edit and upload the step file in a sec.  You want the .step, or .STL?   I'll just load both.


Edit to add:  The forum wouldn't let me upload .step files.  It gave an error message.


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## Ken226 (Nov 13, 2022)

I uploaded the .stl and .stp files to printables.  You should be able to get them here:






						Printables
					






					www.printables.com
				




Disclaimer:    I havn't test printed one yet.  It may not fit, and my CAD model might require some modification later, once i have a printer to test fit with.  I have one printing now, but am still about 10 hours away from being able to verify that the screen and bezel all fit together.

From what I read on another forum, that I probably couldn't possibly find again if I actually needed to, ,  that particular screen has been used successfully with Orange Pi and something called "klipperscreen".  "Klipperscreen" will be another thing I gotta search and learn about in the near future.

Edit to add:
Bummer.  I just realized that the 26 pin GPIO cable I ordered is only 4" long.  Not sure how I missed that.   I ordered a 24" long male/female one I found on eBay.









						26-Pin (2x13) 2.54mm-Pitch Male/Female 26-wire IDC Flat Ribbon Extension  | eBay
					

This 26-Pin (2x13) Male to Female 2.54mm-Pitch 26-wire IDC Flat Ribbon Extension Cable features one 26-pin (2x13) Male connector on one end and one 26-pin (2x13) Female connector on the other end. Connector A: 26-Pin Female IDC Connector, 2.54mm pitch.



					www.ebay.com


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## Ken226 (Nov 14, 2022)

I printed the prototype and found two obvious problems.

Not enough space for the GPIO connector and not enough space for the backlight switch.





I fixed those issues in the model, and uploaded the new .step and .stl to Printables.

The new version requires more supports, as there are now openings on the bottom to allow access to the plug and the backlight switch.







Ill start printing one of these in the morning and see how it goes:
With supports:


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## AlanB (Nov 14, 2022)

Nice progress.

Received an email this morning. The LDO Trident Kit preordered some time ago has shipped. Soon I'll have the Trident parts that I've been collecting but haven't quite ordered the last of, plus the LDO Trident kit, and the PIF printed parts that are already here. I'm running out of excuses to build a Voron Trident 250. Eventually my plan is to have two Trident 250's. These are a bit different from the Voron 2.4 that Ken226 made in this thread in that the Trident's CoreXY Gantry is fixed at the top and the bed moves vertically on three Z leadscrews instead of essentially the reverse on the 2.4 where the bed is fixed at the bottom and the Gantry moves vertically by four belt drives. The Trident kit is a bit easier to build and should be less expensive however the cost difference is negligible. For a really large printer the bed weight grows faster than the gantry weight so the moving gantry makes sense. At 250mm build volume the Trident is a good choice.

This last weekend the Voron Design Group put out a livestream describing their latest design, called "Voron Tap". The final design documents will be released within a week or so. This is an advanced add-on to the Voron 2.4 or Trident that adds an optical switch to the printhead support carriage and allows the nozzle itself to be used to map out the Z height and surface flatness bed mesh. It is basically a new carriage that works with the mgn12 X rail and the StealthBurner toolhead. It is highly accurate and reliable and avoids all the complicated macros to pick up and park a probe like Klicky or Euclid. It avoids the temperature dependent and bed material requirement issues of the magnetic probes. Accuracy is much better than a standard motor microstep. Reliability is much higher than a small mechanical switch as used in many probes. Due to the fact that it uses the nozzle as the probe, it works with all bed material types and doesn't have offsets that are confused by frame twist, etc. It directly compensates for nozzle length and bed thickness increasing convenience of operation. It is a somewhat advanced update, and does add 45g to the toolhead mostly due to the 2" mgn9 rail that it uses to allow the toolhead to move in Z. It requires a stiff system so it does not work on bed slingers or other printers with less rigid setups as the probing force will move things enough to produce incorrect results.


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## 7milesup (Nov 14, 2022)

That is great info @AlanB .   It looks like my Voron 2.4r will be here Thursday.


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## Ken226 (Nov 14, 2022)

7milesup said:


> That is great info @AlanB .   It looks like my Voron 2.4r will be here Thursday.



My kit is scheduled for delivery Wednesday. 

Ive been running my flashforge non-stop printing parts.





Unfortunately, my 5" screen housing is stalling the print process.  Having had to adjust the model a few times and reprint is eating up time.  Hopefully the version printing now has all the bugs worked out.


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## AlanB (Nov 14, 2022)

The screen is optional.


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## Ken226 (Nov 14, 2022)

AlanB said:


> The screen is optional.



When it comes to these SBC's, and the Linux based OS's they use, I'm pretty overwhelmed with info.  And lately frustrated by the lack of clear explanations on the internet.

I'm hoping you can clear things up for me.

So, the RaspPi and Orange pi run on a Linux based OS.  In the case of the Orange Pi 4 lTS that I bought, it's Debian.  Or possibly a Debian variant optimized for the O'pi called Armbian.



So, I see lots of folks using Mainsail, which according to what I'm reading is an OS.  So,  if I install Mainsail, it overwrites Debian and becomes the computers new OS?   Then, I would be installing Klipper,  which is essentially a program running on the Mainsail OS?

Or, Is Mainsail not an OS, but another program that runs on the Debian OS?

Klipper can be installed on a Debian SBC, without needing Mainsail?

Then the other programs, such as Fluidd,  is a graphical user interface for Klipper?

Then If I'm understanding correctly,  Mainsail is the graphical user interface for MainsailOS?  Wouldn't having Debian and Mainsail on the same computer be something like a dual boot PC?


Also,  most sites are instructing to use a network connection to SSH? Into the Orange Pi and use various command line procedures to install  Mainsail (I thought this was an OS).

  So, this has to be done via SSH?  I couldn't plug in a mouse, keyboard and monitor and install it from a micro SD card, in the Orange Pi's desktop environment?  Like I would from Windows?

Sorry about all of the edits  I keep finding sentences that my autocorrect converted to gibberish, on my behalf.


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## AlanB (Nov 15, 2022)

Mainsail, Fluidd and Octoprint are user interfaces that run on an OS. They are not OS's themselves.

There are distribution packages for Mainsail and Octoprint that include Linux for convenience.


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## AlanB (Nov 15, 2022)

If you can install a package like the Mainsail/klipper/raspbian for the pi then ssh might not be needed, but if you are installing things piece by piece a remote terminal like ssh or a remote screen package like vnc will be required.


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## AlanB (Nov 15, 2022)

The advantage of the Raspberry Pi here is the ready-made packages that include OS, Klipper and Mainsail ready to go. Otherwise a sequence of installs and configurations, etc will be required.


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## AlanB (Nov 15, 2022)

If someone has prepared a Mainsail / Klipper / OS package for the Orange Pi, that could be convenient. I would not expect one prepared for the Raspberry Pi to work on the Orange Pi. I haven't looked into the Orange Pi.


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## Ken226 (Nov 15, 2022)

AlanB said:


> If someone has prepared a Mainsail / Klipper / OS package for the Orange Pi, that could be convenient. I would not expect one prepared for the Raspberry Pi to work on the Orange Pi. I haven't looked into the Orange Pi.



Thanks Alan.  That clears up a lot.


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## 7milesup (Nov 15, 2022)

@Ken226 @AlanB    I thought that I shared this link but maybe not.  He walks through the installation of Klipper on an Orange Pi with Octoprint and a 5" touchscreen.






						Klipper 3D printer Firmware
					






					blog.vertile.com


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## Ken226 (Nov 15, 2022)

7milesup said:


> @Ken226 @AlanB    I thought that I shared this link but maybe not.  He walks through the installation of Klipper on an Orange Pi with Octoprint and a 5" touchscreen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes,  I remember reading that article earlier.  It's the article that set me looking for a touch screen, and further research.

The screen he used in that article is nearly identical to the one I got, but an earlier, generic version of nearly the same screen.   I ordered the ver 1.3 sold by Kuman, on Amazon. I noticed a few minor differences in his pic, between the board silkscreen labelling on his board and mine.

It cost twice as much as the unbranded generic version, but Kuman has a support page with instructions and driver downloads for Debian bases operating systems.  I also saw on another forum, some users reporting success with the Kuman version, using GPIO, with Raspberry pi and Klipperscreen.

Of course, that doesn't mean it's going to work with Orange PI.  I think we're kinda stuck taking some risks going the Orange Pi route.   Worst case scenario,  I'll end up ordering a Raspberry Pi.


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## Ken226 (Nov 15, 2022)

I pretty much have the screen housing dialed-in.   It fits, and should work.






There is plenty of room now for the GPIO cable, and access to the backlight switch.





I have to make a minor adjustment to the bezel.  The inner opening is a little too big on the top and sides,  showing about 1/16" past the screen edges.






The new bezel is perfect.  Snaps in, holds everything securely and looks good



I also added a version of the bezel with the Voron logo centered on the bottom, to Printables.









I'm going to keep the version without the logo, since I already have it printed.  Time to print other parts.


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## AlanB (Nov 15, 2022)

I see Orange Pi has a 5 version for preorder. More than needed for Klipper, but good for higher end projects since there is no Raspberry Pi 5.


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## 7milesup (Nov 15, 2022)

@Ken226    I decided to order my printed parts from a guy on Etsy.  https://www.etsy.com/listing/1156359904/voron-24-r2-abs-functional-parts-all
I was trying to get my Prusa to print ASA but unless I built an enclosure, the prints would fail (actually a heatbed error).   I am doing my accent color in dark blue.  *Zyltech Dark Blue*


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## AlanB (Nov 15, 2022)

I decided to go with PIF (Voron Team Print it Forward) for my first Voron parts set. I have an enclosure for the MK3 but subjecting it to those temperatures for a long time will likely negatively affect the PETG parts the Prusa is made of. The quality of the PIF parts is really good, and the pricing is very low. The downside is the wait time. Since I was slowly collecting parts that was not a problem. I will use the first Voron to print parts for the others I plan to build.


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## 7milesup (Nov 15, 2022)

Supposedly my parts will be here next week.  With Thanksgiving in there though it will probably be the following week, which is fine because I have plenty to do.


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## AlanB (Nov 15, 2022)

The frame assembly and squaring up doesn't usually require printed parts.


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## Ken226 (Nov 15, 2022)

7milesup said:


> @Ken226    I decided to order my printed parts from a guy on Etsy.  https://www.etsy.com/listing/1156359904/voron-24-r2-abs-functional-parts-all
> I was trying to get my Prusa to print ASA but unless I built an enclosure, the prints would fail (actually a heatbed error).   I am doing my accent color in dark blue.  *Zyltech Dark Blue*



Good idea.

I'm using ABS for the parts that'll be inside the Voron, and PLA for the skirts, external fan grills, etc.  Basically, for stuff that'll never get above room temp.  My Flashforge handles ABS like a champ. It's been running non stop for 3 days now with the bed at 100c and the extruder at 245c.

But, it's probably worth it to buy the parts.  My Flashforge has been running literally, 24-7 since I started this thread, printing Voron parts.

But, I also shouldn't need near as many printed parts, since I paid out the butt for that CNC aluminum kit.   Still kinda wondering why I did that, lol. It was half the price of the entire  Voron  kit itself.


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## AlanB (Nov 15, 2022)

I haven't seen much info on the aluminum parts for the Vorons. Nero mentioned that the Voron parts designs are for ABS so aluminum parts should be redesigned rather than just machined from the existing designs. Voron also changes the printed parts designs pretty often so upgrades generally involve replacing mostly printed parts. I have been upgrading many of the Railcore parts to aluminum, in that case the CNC parts are not using the printed parts designs.

The PIF parts kits include the essential parts, things like the skirts are not provided. They assume you can get your Voron working and then make the noncritical parts yourself.


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## Ken226 (Nov 15, 2022)

AlanB said:


> I haven't seen much info on the aluminum parts for the Vorons. Nero mentioned that the Voron parts designs are for ABS so aluminum parts should be redesigned rather than just machined from the existing designs. Voron also changes the printed parts designs pretty often so upgrades generally involve replacing mostly printed parts. I have been upgrading many of the Railcore parts to aluminum, in that case the CNC parts are not using the printed parts designs.
> 
> The PIF parts kits include the essential parts, things like the skirts are not provided. They assume you can get your Voron working and then make the noncritical parts yourself.



Yea, some of the aluminum parts are clearly different than the printed versions.  Many are the same, but tapped rather than using nuts or inserts, but some are different shapes,  and some are 2 pieces where the printed versions is one part.

Even if I don't use all af the aluminum parts,  some of the parts like gantry corner connections, and the hot-end holder/body should provide at least some advantages.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 15, 2022)

The new Voron Tap carriage (nozzle probe) upgrade may retire some of those aluminum parts, if you decide to do that. Does your kit come with the StealthBurner toolhead? The Tap upgrade is not compatible with the AfterBurner toolhead, and the AfterBurner cooling is a bit weak for PLA. The StealthBurner is set up for the Tap upgrade and has better cooling. I'm planning to go with the StealthBurner.

The 2.4 gantry needs to be a little flexible since it is supported by four Z belt drives and they twist it slightly to tram it.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 15, 2022)

AlanB said:


> The new Voron Tap carriage (nozzle probe) upgrade may retire some of those aluminum parts, if you decide to do that. Does your kit come with the StealthBurner toolhead? The Tap upgrade is not compatible with the AfterBurner toolhead, and the AfterBurner cooling is a bit weak for PLA. The StealthBurner is set up for the Tap upgrade and has better cooling. I'm planning to go with the StealthBurner.
> 
> The 2.4 gantry needs to be a little flexible since it is supported by four Z belt drives and they twist it slightly to tram it.



Yea, I'm going with the stealthburner.

Neither my my Voron kit nor the aluminum kit come with any stealthburner parts.  I have all of the .stl's from Voron though.  My kit comes with a v6 hotend.

I'm not sure what the aluminum kit comes with.  I don't know enough about these things to know.

This is the list of parts in the aluminum kit.



			https://www.matterhackers.com/r/HSavrx


----------



## AlanB (Nov 15, 2022)

Looks like a lot of usable parts there, and a few that probably won't be used, but not too many.


----------



## 7milesup (Nov 15, 2022)

@Ken226 What hot end are you planning?


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 15, 2022)

7milesup said:


> @Ken226 What hot end are you planning?


The kit I ordered from Voronkits.com comes with a V6 hotend.  I don't know a what brand, or anything about it.

But, the Voron resources site has .STL models for a Stealthburner toolhead setup that takes the V6 hotend.

There seems to be a lot of v6 hotends, parts and upgrades available on Amazon and eBay,  so as common as it is, Im going to use it.

If everything works to plan, I'll use the stealthburner toolhead with the V6 hotend from the kit, and the proximity sensor that comes with the kit for levelling.

These are the toolhead stl's for the stealthburner:










						Voron-Stealthburner/STLs/Stealthburner at main · VoronDesign/Voron-Stealthburner
					

Contribute to VoronDesign/Voron-Stealthburner development by creating an account on GitHub.




					github.com
				




These are the parts specific to the v6 hotend.









						Voron-Stealthburner/STLs/Stealthburner/Printheads/revo_six_and_v6 at main · VoronDesign/Voron-Stealthburner
					

Contribute to VoronDesign/Voron-Stealthburner development by creating an account on GitHub.




					github.com
				




The CW2 rear half is supposed to be the newer, better design.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 16, 2022)

The E3D V6 is what the Prusa MK3 comes with. Very popular, many low cost parts available for it. Good solid choice to start with. Not the easiest to work with, the nozzle needs to be hot torqued and loosened, and the heat break tube that supports the heater block is thin and fragile so care is required when working with it and the unprotected heater and thermistor wiring to the heater block is easy to damage. The quality of the knockoff parts varies.

I'm planning to use a Voron Revo hotend in the Trident. Revo nozzles are more expensive and only available from E3D, but they can be changed at room temperature without tools and precise torque is not required. Hardened and high flow nozzles for Revo are not out yet but should be soon. Hardened nozzles are overdue on pre-order but there is apparently a new delay. There are versions of the Revo for V6 mounts, but the Voron version has a mount that doesn't rotate. Rotation is undesirable when changing nozzles. The Revo has protected wiring and heats and cools much faster than the V6.

Voron generally recommends starting with the BOM parts and getting that working before making changes, especially for a new user.

The LDO kit comes with a few changes so I will probably use most of those. Depending on timing I might use the supplied Klicky Z probe or move directly to the Voron Tap. They say the Voron Tap is an advanced project so it might not be the best way to start, but if the timing is right I may try it. The BOM for Voron Tap is due to release very soon, as is the LDO kit, so it may work out. I don't plan to rush the build.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 16, 2022)

Just in case you guys didn't already know this, I shot a quick little video.

That ugly white residue (stress discoloration) on 3d printed parts from scraping them off of the print bed.  It shows up on PLA and particularly, on ABS parts, is super easy to erase.

No expensive heat gun needed.  I've been doing this alot lately   :


----------



## AlanB (Nov 16, 2022)

Handy tip. I don't recall seeing those stress marks on parts removed from a magnetic flex plate.


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## Ken226 (Nov 16, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Handy tip. I don't recall seeing those stress marks on parts removed from a magnetic flex plate.



I'm using a PEI coated spring steel flex plate.  I dont get them much with PLA, but definitely do with ABS printed on a raft.  It comes from the stress of seperating the part from the raft.  I could probably cure it by adjusting the air gap between the raft and the part.  I've been printing non stop, day and night for a week now and havn't stopped long enough to play with any settings.

This Voron Kit needs ALOT of printed parts.  I think 7Milesup made the right call with buying the parts!

The PEI plate is too smooth for my liking, for printing directly on the plate.  I prefer the coarser, kind,  ballistic nylon looking texture that comes from printing on a raft, so I just use the little butane torch to erase the white.

I have some of the OEM Flashforge decal type liners, which have a nice texture, but they don't last long with ABS, and at 6$ each I find myself not wanting to use them.

I need to get a PEI coated steel, textured, build plate.  I love the look of parts printed directly on those.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 16, 2022)

Interesting. I have seen the stress mark trick before. I haven't used rafts much. I have various steel sheets with flat, matte and textured finish but most often I use the flat. The textured plate does leave a nice finish but PLA doesn't stick well to it and getting the right initial Z height is harder on the texture. The Matte plate is probably better but I have such good luck with flat plate and Aquanet I just use it.

Aquanet extends the life of the PEI sticker to a crazy extent. I'm still using the original smooth plate that came with the MK3, and I got a fairly early one. I have a pile of new spare plates of various textures that have basically never been used, aside from a few tests on a textured plate. If I clean the old smooth PEI and use it bare there are adhesion problems, and I have to sand it periodically to get even marginal adhesion. With a light mist of Aquanet it adheres and releases easily with PLA, PETG and TPU. I suspect the Aquanet is renewing the surface of the PEI.

The wife doesn't want me printing ABS in the house, so I haven't done that with the MK3 in my office.  Another reason to buy PIF parts. I suspect the garage is going to be a problem as well because odors from there often seep into the house. Perhaps it will be good enough, or the Voron filtering will help enough. Or I will have to set up an exhaust that blows outside.

For the noncritical Voron parts I may just use PLA or PETG. I will undoubtedly need to print a few things with ABS to get it running. Or print them in PETG and reprint after it is up and running. I could haul the MK3 to the garage and put the temporary enclosure on it, but it is cold enough now I don't know that it would get near 50C. The ABS parts I will need should be fairly small.

I don't know if the Voron kit shipping weight is accurate. It says over 50 pounds for the Trident. Seems on the high side. Shipping is probably driven by the volume equivalent weight so they may not bother to get accurate weights.


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## pdentrem (Nov 16, 2022)

Freight is by volume usually. We needed an airline for a transport truck one time. Part cost <$100 and the shipping was over $500. The box weighed nothing, but it was 4x2 feet and 6” thick.
Pierre


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## AlanB (Nov 16, 2022)

UPS, Fedex, USPS, etc have a volumetric weight factor that kicks in if a package is too light, so either weight or volume determines the shipping cost, whichever yields the highest shipping cost. This package is not quite into the freight class, I hope.


----------



## 7milesup (Nov 16, 2022)

No, it certainly is not.  I just looked at my shipment, and the kit is listed at 49lbs.  Mine will be here tomorrow.  My printed parts might be here by the end of next week.  The power supply for my Orange Pi (why I didn't order that with the Orange Pi is beyond me) will be here Friday.  The bits and bobs are coming together.
I have the Slice Engineering Mosquito Magnum coming, but I think that I am going to change direction with the hot end.  Initially, I will get it up and running with the standard E3D, but I am seriously considering going to the *Phaetus. Rapido*. 

Side note... For FedEx, the maximum volumetric dimension is 130, which is girth+length.  Beyond that and it goes to LTL.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 16, 2022)

Slice support has been discontinued by Voron Designers since Slice came down on small Voron dealers over their Mosquito patent (which is probably invalid due to prior art), and the Mosquito heater block is so wide it tends to radiate heat into and melt parts cooling ducts. You will have better luck with other hotends on the Voron.

I got a Mosquito with the Railcore, I'm going to use it there.

The Rapido is Phaetus's answer to the Revo. It looks good and uses standard nozzles which is nice. It surprisingly costs slightly more than the Revo which is unusual for a Chinese product vs a UK product. But the savings in nozzle replacements will be substantial, and the variety of available nozzles for the V6 ecosystem that works on the Rapido is useful.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 17, 2022)

The Octopus has a 5V output to power the Pi as I recall. So a separate supply is optional, depending on what you want.

I suspect the weights are for the larger models and they just don't bother adjusting them. I ordered a 250 so the panels and extrusions are smaller and lighter, and the overall size might be reduced if they have packaging optimized.


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## AlanB (Nov 17, 2022)

On the Voron I'm planning to use an LDO Orbiter V2 extruder in the StealthBurner toolhead with the Revo Voron hotend. Not quite stock.


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## 7milesup (Nov 17, 2022)

I'm surprised that you are using the Revo.  It is such a closed ecosystem.  I have learned my lesson over the years not to become captured with proprietary systems.

I have the power supply coming for my Orange Pi because I want to mess around with it before I get my printer built.


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## 7milesup (Nov 17, 2022)

My printer just showed up!!  WOOT.
To answer an earlier question about packaged dimensions, the box measures 22x24x12 inches and lands right at 50lbs.  Just a "little" more than my Prusa


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## Ken226 (Nov 17, 2022)

7milesup said:


> My printer just showed up!!  WOOT.
> To answer an earlier question about packaged dimensions, the box measures 22x24x12 inches and lands right at 50lbs.  Just a "little" more than my Prusa



Mines out for delivery today.

My Orange Pi should be here tomorrow.
The one I ordered comes with the ac/dc adapter.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 17, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I'm surprised that you are using the Revo.  It is such a closed ecosystem.  I have learned my lesson over the years not to become captured with proprietary systems.
> 
> I have the power supply coming for my Orange Pi because I want to mess around with it before I get my printer built.



I generally prefer open systems, the E3D Revo is partially closed but Slice is a patent bully. I ordered the Mosquito before Slice misbehaved, otherwise I would not have one. Easy enough to swap a hotend out if needed on these printers. I have Dragons, DragonFly's and V6's on hand as well as the Revos. I'm attracted to the no-tools nozzle change, but not sure how often I'll change nozzles in reality. I have a Slice nozzle torque wrench that makes changing nozzles easier, though the V6 heater block stabilization is still a hassle. The Dragon solves that, as does the Rapido or Mosquito. I currently have a Dragon on the Prusa MK3 and it has been flawless. Access to nozzle 20 packs for under $10 is handy, but when a nozzle lasts me 6 months it actually doesn't matter much if it costs a bit more. High quality nozzles are often costly and may be worthwhile.

Some folks like to keep the Pi powered when the printer is off, another reason for a separate power supply. It might be fun to setup the Pi to control printer power..


----------



## AlanB (Nov 17, 2022)

I see the Prusa XL is further delayed. Perhaps a Voron 2.4 350 should be in the plans instead. It would be nice to have a tool changer or IDEX, but how practical are they really? An MMU would probably handle most of my needs. I make a few 2 color parts.


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## AlanB (Nov 17, 2022)

There is an MMU for Vorons, the Enraged Rabbit Carrot Feeder (ERCF). Kits are available. It is modular so you can make it various sizes. They have code worked out for Klipper of course. It should work with any Klipperized printer.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 17, 2022)

On Hotends, the Phaetus Rapido came out after I had already invested in these others, so I didn't order one yet. My parts collection is probably larger than it should be already. At first I started collecting parts for a Voron Switchwire, then I changed to the 1.8 250 then the Trident replaced that model and I shifted to that. Then the LDO Trident kit was available in 250. Along the way the Salad Fork kits were available. And the Bear Frame for the Prusa MK3 much earlier in the series. I've given one 3D printer away already (and started him on the 3d printing journey), and I may have to do that again. In the longer term the Switchwire seems redundant, but most of the parts are collected. A 350 size printer would be handy at times. Have to clear out some space in the garage for a small print farm. Ultimately it might be nice to have just the 150mm Salad Fork (small Trident) in my office and the rest of the machines in the garage. But the Trident 250 has to be first as that is what I have printed parts for.  

50 pounds is a lot more than my Prusa. Wonder how much of that is box. The panels add quite a bit of weight too. The Railcore is pretty light with the smaller extrusions and HDPE panels. But I don't have the thick aluminum build plate installed yet. 300x300x6mm will add some weight to the package.

Enjoy your builds!


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## AlanB (Nov 17, 2022)

22x24x12 is 46 pounds dimensional weight for UPS and Fedex, and 39 pounds for USPS, according to an online calculator at ShipBob.

They generally require rounding up on the dimensions, so that might cause the estimate to go up. I've had some UPS shipments go up because they measured them to be an inch larger in one or more dimensions.


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## Ken226 (Nov 17, 2022)

Mine showed up today..


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## Ken226 (Nov 18, 2022)

From what I've been reading, the StealthBurner head will fit the Clockwork 1 extruder setup from the Afterburner, which uses the original Afterburner carriage parts.

I'm going to go this route, so I can use the machined aluminum clockwork and carriage parts from the aluminum parts kit, and still have the cooling advantages of the Stealthburner.


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## AlanB (Nov 18, 2022)

I also see comments that CW1 can work with StealthBurner. I haven't tried it myself.

The new Tap nozzle probe system requires a new carriage (with vertical rail and optical switch) and CW1 is said to not be compatible - a CW2, LGX or Orbiter extruder and StealthBurner is required and mounts must be from the front. But if you use the inductive probe, Klicky or Euclid instead of Tap that should work.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 18, 2022)

AlanB said:


> I also see comments that CW1 can work with StealthBurner. I haven't tried it myself.
> 
> The new Tap nozzle probe system requires a new carriage (with vertical rail and optical switch) and CW1 is said to not be compatible - a CW2, LGX or Orbiter extruder and StealthBurner is required and mounts must be from the front. But if you use the inductive probe, Klicky or Euclid instead of Tap that should work.



I plan to use the probe that came with the kit.  I believe it is an inductive proximity sensor.  Since I already have the parts, and can follow the manual for wiring and setup.

I've seen some reports on the interwebs of the nozzle tap sensors damaging the build plate coatings.  Says they heat up before tapping, and since they tap the same spots every time, wear divots, resulting in some accuracy loss.   Heard anything about this?


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## AlanB (Nov 18, 2022)

Yes. If you watch the announcement livestream for the Voron Tap the chief developer showed a steel flex plate with flat PEI sticker that he has used for testing. He said there are over a million taps on it and he showed the marks it left, which appear as circles where the meplat touches the plate at 150C nozzle temperature. He said you cannot feel them with a thumbnail and they do not affect probing accuracy, but they are visible on the surface of printed parts. A light sanding will erase them, and it takes awhile for them to develop. He said the textured plate PEI must be tougher because it does not happen there, he cannot find the spot after thousands of taps. So it is an issue, but a minor one. They are applying about 600g of force during the tap. Perhaps I will end up moving to a matte or textured plate if it turns out to be a practical issue. There is also some discussion about possibly moving the tapping locations around to spread out the effect. Time for tennis, catch you later.


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## AlanB (Nov 18, 2022)

I've had great luck with the inductive probe in the Prusa MK3. I have considered using one in the Voron as well, either the Panasonic, or the Omron or even a Prusa SuperPinda which I have spares of on hand. I have heard that some of the Omron probes melt, it's hard to tell but they are probably clones rather than the real deal. Perhaps the newer StealthBurner reduces this problem. They did some work with the airflow that might help here. But even if it is going to get melty that's a future problem, and one that doesn't happen to every printer.

Following the build plans with the supplied sensor also allows using the provided starting macros for Klipper which could be quite helpful.

So why consider the Voron Tap probe? It compensates for nozzle changes, and it compensates for print sheet changes. It avoids the time and complexity of docking and undocking a clicky probe, and the unreliability of switch based probes. The inductive probes are reliable, but they don't compensate for nozzle length or print sheet coating thickness. They won't work at all on glass or G10 print surfaces. The Prusa compensates for the sheet changes by having a separate Z calibration memory for each sheet that you set up. But every time a nozzle is changed you have to re-set all the Z calibrations for each sheet. The Revo is supposed to solve this by being manufactured to the same length, but some say that there is some variation even so. By using the nozzle as the probe there are many things solved. Many new printer designs are trying to do this with strain gauges or accelerometers or other techniques. The Voron Tap uses a small linear rail to allow motion, a magnetic system to hold it in place while printing, and an inexpensive but precise optical switch to register the motion. There is still a Z calibration needed to determine how far the nozzle moves toward the bed before the optical switch triggers, but this should not change with nozzle changes or print sheet changes.  There may still be some tuning for print sheet texture as this shifts the detection point to the peaks of the texture rather than the average height of the sheet.

Well, today one of the two boxes of Voron parts was delivered. The other box was not on this truck. It is listed as about 60 miles away. I haven't unpacked this larger box to see what is missing, so what would 10 pounds be? I'm guessing the frame is in the missing box, as that is the only "choice" item - the color of the frame.

I see more Pi Zero 2 W's landed somewhere in the world today. Adafruit had some a few days ago, gone now. I wonder if some are going to land elsewhere in the US soon. The Pi Zero 2 W is sufficient for running Klipper or Octoprint. If you are set up to order from foreign sources you could possibly get one that way as well.

It seems to have quieted down since the other two kits arrived. Folks must be busy assembling...


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## AlanB (Nov 18, 2022)

Nope. Just unpacked this double corrugated box in a double corrugated box. Everything inside is also boxed and labelled in a mosaic of smaller boxes designed to fit. Reminds me of the Prusa kit packing. Not surprising, since LDO makes a lot of Prusa parts, and this is an LDO kit. Now my small workbench is covered in small boxes.

The missing box must be the panels.

Fun lies ahead.


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## AlanB (Nov 19, 2022)

Voron has a new forum for user support. This should be a bit more organized than the discord or reddit.






						VORON Design
					

The official VORON forum




					forum.vorondesign.com
				




The frame is together, at least basically. It is not as square as I would like, assuming my marble end table is flat which I should verify. I wonder how square is good enough.. The frame pieces are nicely made, cut, anodized and threaded. 

Ultimately the tramming of the linear rails determines the overall accuracy. But if the frame is too wonky it will be hard to tram.


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## 7milesup (Nov 19, 2022)

I am glad to see an organized forum.  Discord is such a mess.

I am hoping to start on my frame today.  My printed parts will not be here until the end of next week.  I am going to be making an aluminum bottom plate for underneath the heat bed, either in conjunction with the provided plastic panel or in lieu of the plastic.  
I have a table in my shop that is 5ft x 4ft with a 1" thick Blanchard ground top on it, so that should be flat.


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## Ken226 (Nov 19, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I am glad to see an organized forum.  Discord is such a mess.
> 
> I am hoping to start on my frame today.  My printed parts will not be here until the end of next week.  I am going to be making an aluminum bottom plate for underneath the heat bed, either in conjunction with the provided plastic panel or in lieu of the plastic.
> I have a table in my shop that is 5ft x 4ft with a 1" thick Blanchard ground top on it, so that should be flat.



I used the granite countertops in the kitchen, and some v blocks clamped onto the corners.  

I wish I had room for a 5' x 4' ground tabletop.  That sure would have saved me some guff from the wife.   I have the basic framing done,  now I'm at a standstill waiting for those cnc aluminum parts so I can start on the Z axis stuff.  That aluminum parts kit should be here Tuesday.


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## Ken226 (Nov 19, 2022)

I got some of the stealthburner parts printed and assembled.  It's a cool looking contraption.

I'm reprinting that v6 rear cap.  It didn't come out quite right.  Those 1-1/2 long bridges are tough to get perfected, especially with ABS.


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## AlanB (Nov 19, 2022)

I've built a few frames on this marble end table round including the MK3. I'm going to disassemble and reassemble the Trident frame today and see if I can get it to square up. The marble round is two feet diameter and 20mm thick. I have a granite surface plate but it is a bit small at 12x18 and not easy to use for this.

The wife doesn't want me to use the new ceramic topped range for some reason.

I agree on the forums organization vs Discord disorganization (organized chaos?). Discord is very popular for some reason but it is a mess compared to a good forum.

I dug out the PIF printed parts (no easy feat in itself), and the panels are "in the mail". I'll have to hold on the bottom panel when I get to that, but the rest of the panels aren't needed till near the end or even after the printer is working. I suspect that a few more printed parts may be needed, the LDO build has a few mods in it so it is not a direct BOM build - it has quite a few PCBs and a Klicky probe so I suspect my standard printed parts set will need a few changes. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, printing anything else needed on the Prusa MK3 in PETG hopefully. If it has to be ABS or ASA I could  move the printer to the garage and use an enclosure, or just use PETG for now and replace that part later, if it is not too hard to get to.

I reviewed Nero's short video on frame assembly. I'm also recalling what 'Steve Builds' does when he builds Voron frames. He does several things beyond the instructions, one is to use washers on the screws. I think I will do that too. As the screws are torqued they tend to move the frame and disturb the alignment. Washers reduce this effect. I'm also going to use more clamps and alignment tooling to get as precise as I can. I'm also going to compare the lengths of the extrusions to insure they are matched, which I think they are but differences in length will cause alignment problems. I suspect it was just some poorly aligned joints that caused my frame to be out of alignment by 1-2mm. Nero mentions under 0.5mm diagonal differential. I asked the question on Discord and was told 1mm diagonal difference max is a good rule of thumb. I'm aiming for whatever I can get as long as it is well under the 1mm diagonal, would like to be well under 0.5mm though that's getting difficult to measure.


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## Ken226 (Nov 19, 2022)

These heat set inserts are kinda fun to install.


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## AlanB (Nov 19, 2022)

That worked. Frame now much flatter on the marble round. Within the thickness of an index card of flat. It was better than that up till the last cross pieces, but not worth doing more. I added washers, did a much more careful job of aligning and tightening, in a couple of cases rotated a piece to get a better fit to the square. 

Heat set inserts are great. A proper sized hole works pretty well too, but heat-sets are better for serviceability.


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## AlanB (Nov 19, 2022)

LDO Trident 250 frame. Railcore 300XL on the left.

Panels just arrived.


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## AlanB (Nov 20, 2022)

Installed a few heat set inserts. Built the A and B motor assemblies and the front idlers.

Enough for one day.


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## Ken226 (Nov 20, 2022)

The  Orange Pi thing isn't going well.

It came with Android installed on the Emmc, and apparently Android causes it to skip the boot from SD card thing.   I'm trying to figure out how to get it to boot from an SD card so I can install Armbian.


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## 7milesup (Nov 20, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> The  Orange Pi thing isn't going well.
> 
> It came with Android installed on the Emmc, and apparently Android causes it to skip the boot from SD card thing.   I'm trying to figure out how to get it to boot from an SD card so I can install Armbian.


I worked on this for a couple of hours last night, Ken.  When I install the SD card in the Orange Pi, it will boot from the SD, and it 'seems' that Armbian is installed.  However, when I power it down, remove the SD card and then power it back up, it boots right back into Android.  This does not make sense to me because I thought I had Armbian installed on the Emmc, but apparently not? 
I found a Reddit thread from 7 months ago that said Armbian was not compatible with Orange Pi 3 LTS, but not sure if that is really the case. I cannot find that thread at the moment but here is a thread that may be useful.  




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/klippers/comments/uvx07z

Here is another Reddit thread regarding Fluidd and Mainsail.  




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/klippers/comments/pf9ygl


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## 7milesup (Nov 20, 2022)

@Ken226  Can you hurry up and figure that out, so I know what to do?  LOL  


EDIT:

Here is the thread I found regarding the Orange Pi and Armbian.   Even if Armbian does work with the Opi 3 LTS now, there is still a lot of good info in that thread.  *Getting Orange Pi to work with Klipper and Fluidd*


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## Ken226 (Nov 20, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I worked on this for a couple of hours last night, Ken.  When I install the SD card in the Orange Pi, it will boot from the SD, and it 'seems' that Armbian is installed.  However, when I power it down, remove the SD card and then power it back up, it boots right back into Android.  This does not make sense to me because I thought I had Armbian installed on the Emmc, but apparently not?
> I found a Reddit thread from 7 months ago that said Armbian was not compatible with Orange Pi 3 LTS, but not sure if that is really the case. I cannot find that thread at the moment but here is a thread that may be useful.
> 
> 
> ...



After booting from the SD, did you run the "nand-sata-install"  command, to write the OS from the SD to the EMMC?

Disclaimer, I don't know how to actually do that.  I just read it here









						Installing Klipper on Armbian OS, like Orange Pi
					

Hi, I just want to share how I installed Klipper, Moonraker and fluidd on my Orange PIs. 1. Download Armbian (I use the debian/bullseye) for your board from here: https://www.armbian.com/download/ 2. Write the image to a 'good' SD card. 3. When booting for the first time, you are asked to create ...




					www.teamfdm.com


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## 7milesup (Nov 20, 2022)

It did at one point Ken, but honestly, I am not confident that I did it in the correct order.


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## Ken226 (Nov 20, 2022)

7milesup said:


> It did at one point Ken, but honestly, I am not confident that I did it in the correct order.



Well, your already a couple steps ahead of me. 

If I don't put a card it, it boots into Android. 

If I put in any one of the half dozen SD cards I've imaged with Armbian,  it just shows a fuzzy white screen and does nothing. 

 From what I understand, once android has been installed, it changes the boot sequence and boots strait from Emmc, skipping the SD card.  

The confusing part is that, if it's booting directly from Emmc, why would having the SD card installed lock it up.  It should just skip the SD card and boot into Android regardless of the SD card.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 20, 2022)

Hi Folks. Sorry to see the problems with the Orange Pi. Someone needs to do a good recipe for it.

In a few minutes Steve Builds is going to do a livestream on installing the Voron Tap probe. Should be interesting background while I work on the Trident. 






This morning I printed the mount for the Octopus board. The PIF parts I ordered were set up for the Spider board. Hopefully PLA will work for this, at least to start with. Next step on the build is to install the XY motors and idlers.


----------



## 7milesup (Nov 20, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> Well, your already a couple steps ahead of me.
> 
> If I don't put a card it, it boots into Android.
> 
> ...


I don't think that is quite accurate.  It should boot from the SD card and then, after going through some menu items, initiate the command nand-sata-install command line.  That should then force the Armbian to load into the Emmc.  Have you used *SD card formatter for Windows* followed by *Balen Etcher* to give yourself a good, clean image of Armbian?  
The other part of this that confuses me is the SSH.  Do I need to do this somehow, and if so, how?  I believe it can be done through the wireless network via *https://www.putty.org/**, *but I ran out of time last night to continue the troubleshooting.
As a sidebar, I asked this question on the new Voron forum under electronics but have not received any responses yet.


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 20, 2022)

You need to enable ssh to be able to remotely access the Orange Pi.  Sorry, don't know how that is done in OrangePi.  In RPi it can be done a couple of ways.  One way is through RaspiConfig.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 20, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I don't think that is quite accurate.  It should boot from the SD card and then, after going through some menu items, initiate the command nand-sata-install command line.  That should then force the Armbian to load into the Emmc.  Have you used *SD card formatter for Windows* followed by *Balen Etcher* to give yourself a good, clean image of Armbian?
> The other part of this that confuses me is the SSH.  Do I need to do this somehow, and if so, how?  I believe it can be done through the wireless network via *https://www.putty.org/**, *but I ran out of time last night to continue the troubleshooting.
> As a sidebar, I asked this question on the new Voron forum under electronics but have not received any responses yet.



Yea, I formatted the cards first, then used raspberry pi imager to write the images into SD cards.

Putty will be my next thing to try.  That'll require more YouTube watching.


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 20, 2022)

In linux it is just 
$ ssh -Y user@yourcomputername  ( opi@orangepi.local, or opi@ip_address )
-Y gives you root X11 access (usually through sudo).  
-X gives you X11 access, ie. the graphics that would have gone to your local Pi console is forwarded to the remote computer.  

Just plain $ ssh user@yourcomputername only gives you command line access.

From what I recall putty is pretty simple.


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 20, 2022)

Don't know if this is authoritative, but looks pretty simple.





						Install PuTTY - detailed installation instructions for Windows
					

Install PuTTY - detailed installation instructions for Windows




					www.ssh.com
				




I do not know what exactly is going on with putty.org.  Think they were bought out, or squatted on.  Not the same as I remember visiting just 5 or 10 years ago.  Back then, you could get to the instructions without having to download.  

Ahh, here is the original site.  https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/latest.html  this is the real one.  
Seems it is also in the Microsoft store.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 20, 2022)

I got it to boot from the SD card, but not from the Armbian image I got from Armbian.

It worked when I used the Debian image from Orange Pi's website.

I'making progress, but stuck untill I can get a keyboard.  Debian doesn't give me an on-screen keypad like a droid did.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 20, 2022)

was able to get it done without a keyboard.  I used my phone asa hotspot,  connected my laptop and the orange pi both to the phones wifi hotspot. Then used putty to SSH into the Orange pi.

The Nand-sata-install command  did the trick.

Android is gone, and now it boots into Debian without having the SD card installed.

Now it's time to jack around with Klipper.


----------



## 7milesup (Nov 20, 2022)

Thanks @WobblyHand.  I will check it out.



Ken226 said:


> I got it to boot from the SD card, but not from the Armbian image I got from Armbian.
> 
> It worked when I used the Debian image from Orange Pi's website.
> 
> I'making progress, but stuck untill I can get a keyboard.  Debian doesn't give me an on-screen keypad like a droid did.


You/we could switch to Debian without issue I would think.  My earlier post referencing issues with Orange Pi and Armbian may have some merit after all.  
I am sitting on my deer stand at the moment but I am going to experiment with Debian. I have an extra USB monitor, mouse and keyboard along with a good power supply so I am good to go.


----------



## 7milesup (Nov 20, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> was able to get it done without a keyboard.  I used my phone asa hotspot,  connected my laptop and the orange pi both to the phones wifi hotspot. Then used putty to SSH into the Orange pi.
> 
> The Nand-sata-install command  did the trick.
> 
> ...


that is awesome Ken!


----------



## 7milesup (Nov 20, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> was able to get it done without a keyboard. I used my phone asa hotspot, connected my laptop and the orange pi both to the phones wifi hotspot. Then used putty to SSH into the Orange pi.


Can you explain this furth @Ken226?  So, the Orange Pi was using a WIFI hotspot?  If so, could I utilize my home wireless for this?
Wait... So you did this for the sole reason of using the keyboard on your laptop as a pseudo keyboard for the Orange Pi?  Also, do I need to utilize SSH and Putty if I have the keyboard and mouse hooked up?


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 20, 2022)

7milesup said:


> Can you explain this furth @Ken226?  So, the Orange Pi was using a WIFI hotspot?  If so, could I utilize my home wireless for this?
> Wait... So you did this for the sole reason of using the keyboard on your laptop as a pseudo keyboard for the Orange Pi?  Also, do I need to utilize SSH and Putty if I have the keyboard and mouse hooked up?


If you have a display, keyboard and mouse hooked up to the Orange Pi, you do not need ssh.  If you want to remotely connect to the Orange Pi, for some reason, you may need ssh.

Edit:
@7milesup Say you wanted to update your Orange Pi, which was in another room, with some new software.  Instead of tying up a display, mouse and keyboard, you could ssh into your Orange Pi from your Windows computer, at your desk.  Then you would need putty.exe and ssh.  I usually have ssh on all my machines, so I can remotely administer all the computers and PI's in the house.  Makes it a lot easier to do it all from one place.  I have a print server, a sprinkler controller, a file server, a shop computer and OctoPi.  Much easier to ssh in and keep them up to date than walk around and haul stuff with me.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 20, 2022)

Great progress there.

I'm in the one step forward two steps back mode. The LDO T Nuts don't go easily into the LDO extrusions. I found a trick for getting them in using a spring loaded punch. Make sure to wear eye protection, one went flying when it wasn't done properly.

I was looking at the LDO instructions, and realized this kit came with nut strips for the rails. They need to be installed into the extrusions before frame assembly. It did not require much disassembly to get them in, but should have noticed that sooner. Working from multiple sets of instructions is extra fun...


----------



## AlanB (Nov 20, 2022)

Using a local keyboard/mouse/screen on the SBC makes a lot of things easier initially, but having SSH and/or a VNC setup makes future maintenance a lot more convenient.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 20, 2022)

Using Putty to SSH into the Orange Pi, I was able to get Klipper, Moonraker, Mainsail and Klipperscreen installed.

Just to make sure, I ran the Kiauh program from the Orange Pi's terminal and it also shows all that stuff installed.

I have no idea how to use any of it though.  I still don't see any Icons, buttons or anything to indicate that the programs are even there.

Being a lifelong Windows user,  every version since 3.1,  this Linux stuff is very weird.

So, how do you start  and run any of these programs?

There no button for Mainsail (the user interface for Klipper ?)

I'm kinda hard wired with the concept of, once you've installed a program,  you click the start button and there it is, ready to run.


----------



## 7milesup (Nov 20, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> Using Putty to SSH into the Orange Pi, I was able to get Klipper, Moonraker, Mainsail and Klipperscreen installed.
> 
> Just to make sure, I ran the Kiauh program from the Orange Pi's terminal and it also shows all that stuff installed.
> 
> ...


I just spent a whole bunch of time trying to get  Armbian on my Orange Pi.  It seems like I would make some progress by getting it loaded onto the emmc, but when I reboot, it would not accept my password.  I re-flashed that emmc I don't know how many times.  I downloaded Debian and installed that, which was easy peasy and has a Windows feel to it.  But then what?  
This electronics side of the build is going to kick my butt.  
You have made substantial progress.  Hopefully you can get it to the finish line.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 20, 2022)

7milesup said:


> Can you explain this furth @Ken226?  So, the Orange Pi was using a WIFI hotspot?  If so, could I utilize my home wireless for this?
> Wait... So you did this for the sole reason of using the keyboard on your laptop as a pseudo keyboard for the Orange Pi?  Also, do I need to utilize SSH and Putty if I have the keyboard and mouse hooked up?


i had to do it that way for some pretty stupid reasons.

My internet provider is Comcast, and apparently the router no longer has some kind of security certificate so access is blocked by all modern web browsers. Basically, i couldnt use it.

I used my phone as a wifi hotspot, connected both the orange pi and my laptop to my phones hotspot, then used putty to do all the work via SSH.

There were probably a hundred better ways to do it, but the most easily understandable instructions i could find, instructed to do it via SSH.

I posted this reply from my Orange Pi


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 20, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I just spent a whole bunch of time trying to get  Armbian on my Orange Pi.  It seems like I would make some progress by getting it loaded onto the emmc, but when I reboot, it would not accept my password.  I re-flashed that emmc I don't know how many times.  I downloaded Debian and installed that, which was easy peasy and has a Windows feel to it.  But then what?
> This electronics side of the build is going to kick my butt.
> You have made substantial progress.  Hopefully you can get it to the finish line.



Well, I have everything installed, but i have no idea how any of this will interface with the 3d printer.  I still don't see any Klipper, Moonraker, Mainsail stuff anywhere on this thing.

So far, all I can do with it is post on Hobbymachinist.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 20, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I just spent a whole bunch of time trying to get  Armbian on my Orange Pi.  It seems like I would make some progress by getting it loaded onto the emmc, but when I reboot, it would not accept my password.  I re-flashed that emmc I don't know how many times.  I downloaded Debian and installed that, which was easy peasy and has a Windows feel to it.  But then what?
> This electronics side of the build is going to kick my butt.
> You have made substantial progress.  Hopefully you can get it to the finish line.



Yea, that's exactly why I ended up using SSH with putty.  I had no trouble finding detailed instructions for that route.

Once you get the Orange Pi on the same Wifi connection with a windows computer, and figure out the orange Pi's ip address,  it's easy to get Kiauh installed, which will make getting everything else installed easy.


----------



## 7milesup (Nov 20, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> Yea, that's exactly why I ended up using SSH with putty.  I had no trouble finding detailed instructions for that route.
> 
> Once you get the Orange Pi on the same Wifi connection with a windows computer, and figure out the orange Pi's ip address,  it's easy to get Kiauh installed, which will make getting everything else installed easy.


I may take a look at that tomorrow.  Do you have a link for the instructions?  I probably have it already, but my brain is mush.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 20, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I may take a look at that tomorrow.  Do you have a link for the instructions?  I probably have it already, but my brain is mush.



I watched some YouTube videos on how to connect to the Orange Pi with putty.


After installing putty on my laptop,  connecting the laptop and Orange Pi to the same Wifi connection, and figuring out what the IP address for the orange Pi is and finally getting it connected

I used these instructions for Kiauh and installing the other stuff.









						GitHub - th33xitus/kiauh: Klipper Installation And Update Helper
					

Klipper Installation And Update Helper. Contribute to th33xitus/kiauh development by creating an account on GitHub.




					github.com
				




I copied each command from the site and pasted it into putty.

Once Kiauh is installed,  after each program was installed,  I entered the command:

 ./kiauh/kiauh.sh 

To start Kiauh again, then install the next program.

To re


----------



## AlanB (Nov 21, 2022)

Great progress there with the Orange Pi's. I haven't worked on that part yet, though I've done a number of Pi projects but never with the Orange flavor. There are linux crontab settings for programs that you always want to run on bootup, but I don't know if that's what's generally done for Klipper and Mainsail. The connection to the control board will be either serial or USB. Then Klipper will generate a file for the controller which you transfer to an SD or MicroSD and that is plugged into the controller. That in turn loads the controller's program memory. From then on the controller takes orders from the Pi via the USB or serial. There are quite a few videos that get into the details there..

Not as much progress on the frame here today, next step is the linear rails. They are stainless and seem pretty dry so I'll have to grease them first, I'll start on that tomorrow.


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 21, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> Using Putty to SSH into the Orange Pi, I was able to get Klipper, Moonraker, Mainsail and Klipperscreen installed.
> 
> Just to make sure, I ran the Kiauh program from the Orange Pi's terminal and it also shows all that stuff installed.
> 
> ...


Are you trying to run a program through putty?  What was the ssh command?  ssh -X user@orangepi ?  or just ssh user@orangepi ?
If there is no icon, usually all that is necessary is to type in a text window the name of the program.  Like:  $ myprogram <enter>.  If that does not work, then something like $ /usr/bin/myprogram <enter>.  If the program is in some non-standard place, you have to search around for where it is.  Also in linux, there are no .exe files.  Just files, some of which are executable.  You can get the file permissions by typing $ ls -alg<enter> this give a listing of the directory and tells you what every entry is in the directory, with permissions.  If the permissions has an x then it is executable.  If there is a d then it is a directory.  The command also tells you who the owner is, it's size, the file date and the file name in alphabetical order.

If you have a graphic display, like you are using vnc, you can open a terminal (text) window and type stuff in, like above.  Or maybe there is an icon, or a way to navigate to your application.  Sometimes there is a magic spot on the screen with some sort of icon if clicked then you see various system stuff, like apps or even categories of stuff.  Not familiar with the various OS's on Orange Pi.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 21, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Are you trying to run a program through putty?  What was the ssh command?  ssh -X user@orangepi ?  or just ssh user@orangepi ?
> If there is no icon, usually all that is necessary is to type in a text window the name of the program.  Like:  $ myprogram <enter>.  If that does not work, then something like $ /usr/bin/myprogram <enter>.  If the program is in some non-standard place, you have to search around for where it is.  Also in linux, there are no .exe files.  Just files, some of which are executable.  You can get the file permissions by typing $ ls -alg<enter> this give a listing of the directory and tells you what every entry is in the directory, with permissions.  If the permissions has an x then it is executable.  If there is a d then it is a directory.  The command also tells you who the owner is, it's size, the file date and the file name in alphabetical order.
> 
> If you have a graphic display, like you are using vnc, you can open a terminal (text) window and type stuff in, like above.  Or maybe there is an icon, or a way to navigate to your application.  Sometimes there is a magic spot on the screen with some sort of icon if clicked then you see various system stuff, like apps or even categories of stuff.  Not familiar with the various OS's on Orange Pi.



Yea, I've tried all of that.  The "Mainsail" I installed doesn't appear to exist.

And I think I may be figuring out why. 

Mainsail isn't a program run on Debian,  Mainsail IS the OS.  It replaces Debian. I should have installed Mainsail, not Debian.

Apparently,  It needs to be flashed onto an SD card, the pi booted up.   Then you use Putty to SSH into the Pi's Mainsail OS, and install Klipper, etc.

I could still be mistaken, but I may have wasted all that time installing Debian.


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 21, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> Yea, I've tried all of that.  The "Mainsail" I installed doesn't appear to exist.
> 
> And I think I may be figuring out why.
> 
> ...


Tough getting started in a new area, isn't it?  Feel the same way starting out with 3d printing.  So much new stuff, with lots of little details that are important, but unknown.

If indeed Mainsail is a custom OS, then yes, you need to flash it onto the SD.  Your Debian install will be totally overwritten.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 21, 2022)

Don't confuse MainsailOS with Klipper Mainsail UI. The OS includes a lot of things for convenience but is based on Raspberry Pi OS.









						MainsailOS
					

Mainsail is a lightweight & responsive web interface for the Klipper 3D printer firmware. It communicates with Moonraker (Klipper-API) from Arksine.




					docs.mainsail.xyz
				












						GitHub - mainsail-crew/mainsail: Mainsail is the popular web interface for Klipper
					

Mainsail is the popular web interface for Klipper. Contribute to mainsail-crew/mainsail development by creating an account on GitHub.




					github.com


----------



## AlanB (Nov 21, 2022)

Sorry you are having trouble. There is a lot to learn if this is your first experience with Linux.

Did the instructions at https://3dpandme.com/2022/09/03/tutorial-orange-pi-pc-klipper-install/ work? 

Is that the Orange Pi board you are working with?


----------



## AlanB (Nov 21, 2022)

Mainsail is accessed as a web server. Once Mainsail is installed and running you connect to it from another computer using a web browser.

KIAUH looks like a good way to manage the software install. MainsailOS is great if you have a Raspberry Pi. For other hardware it may not be well suited.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 21, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Sorry you are having trouble. There is a lot to learn if this is your first experience with Linux.
> 
> Did the instructions at https://3dpandme.com/2022/09/03/tutorial-orange-pi-pc-klipper-install/ work?
> 
> Is that the Orange Pi board you are working with?





AlanB said:


> Sorry you are having trouble. There is a lot to learn if this is your first experience with Linux.
> 
> Did the instructions at https://3dpandme.com/2022/09/03/tutorial-orange-pi-pc-klipper-install/ work?
> 
> Is that the Orange Pi board you are working with?



My Orange Pi is the Orange Pi 4 lts.

Its a bigger, newer version, but very similar to the one in that link.

The instructions in that link are pretty much exactly what I did, except that Armbian would not boot up at all.  I used Debian, downloaded from the OrangePi 4 LTS support site.

Everything boots up, and Klipperscreen runs.

I was having trouble figuring out Mainsail.
So, I have that figured out now, I think.

Basically, there is no mainsail UI program on the Orange Pi.  

To access mainsail, you type the Orange Pi's ip address into a browser in your (phone, laptop, whatever) and the browswer accesses the Orange Pi as if its a router.

So, i have it working.  I think.

So, this is all internet based stuff?  That brings up another issue I'll have to deal with.  I don't have a wifi signal out in the shop where I keep my 3d printer.    

I guess i'll be able to access it via my phones wifi hotspot,  or just run it directly from the Orange Pi's touchscreen with "klipperscreen".

But,  I now appear to have Mainsail and Klipper all set up and working.  Just need to get Klipper installed on my Octopus boards MCU,  then get the printer built and the config file loaded into mainsail.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 21, 2022)

Good progress there Ken226. Sounds like you are on the right track.

Mainsail, Fluidd and Octoprint are local network based. They can be setup for remote internet access, but that is a different level and not something I would recommend. But the idea is to use the local network to support submitting print jobs, monitoring status and controlling the printer from a local web browser based phone, computer or tablet. It doesn't have to be wifi, a wired network is fine also. When a print job is submitted it is first copied to local storage and then printed from there, so the network is not involved in the printing process.

My workflow is to run a slicer on either my laptop or my desktop. I start with an STL from my own CAD, or one downloaded from the usual sources.

I mostly use Prusa Slicer these days, but have used Cura and Simplify 3D as well. In the slicer the model is loaded, and then selections are made as to filament type, layer height, quality settings, support settings, model orientation, etc. Then the model is sliced and the results reviewed. How much filament is required, how long will it take to print, etc. I then check the printer to make sure the bed is clear and ready and the proper filament is loaded and that there is enough filament on the spool (a good way of estimating the remaining filament on a spool is useful). Then I send the print job from the slicer to the printer with the load and start printing button in the slicer. The camera is useful to monitor the printing, the most critical time is at the start.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 21, 2022)

If there is no internet in the shop, one possibility is to run a hotspot setup right on the Orange Pi. This would create a local wifi network for the printer. Then the phone, tablet or laptop could locally connect to the printer's Mainsail via this local wifi network. There are scripts for the Raspberry Pi that should work for the Orange Pi. I've seen them set up to connect to a local wifi but when it is not available they create a local wifi network. So when the printer is in the house it connects to the wifi there, when it is in the shop or elsewhere it makes it's own wifi network. Convenient for a printer that gets moved or taken portable.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 21, 2022)

AlanB said:


> If there is no internet in the shop, one possibility is to run a hotspot setup right on the Orange Pi. This would create a local wifi network for the printer. Then the phone, tablet or laptop could locally connect to the printer's Mainsail via this local wifi network. There are scripts for the Raspberry Pi that should work for the Orange Pi. I've seen them set up to log into a local wifi but when it is not available they create a local wifi network. So when the printer is in the house it connects to the wifi there, when it is in the shop or elsewhere it makes it's own wifi network. Convenient for a printer that gets moved or taken portable.



Thats right!!  The Orange Pi has a wifi-hotspot!!   Genius.  (If i can get it to work).




In my learning process so far, I've managaed to screw up several times by following internet based directions, from various sites.

Like, about an hour ago.  My icon for Klipperscreen disappeared from the OrangePi desktop.  I googled it, found something saying to run the command "-sudo-systemctl-set-default-multi-user-target",  which resulted in endless boot cycle.

I cooked breakfast, fed the dogs and had two cups of coffee while it tried to boot.  So now, back to reinstalling everything from scratch.

I figured out that connecting the orange Pi to ethernet cable, and running putty from my laptop while sitting on the couch is definitely the way-to-go!  running apt update and apt upgrade now, downloading all of the update install files for Debian.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 21, 2022)

One thing to think about is getting updates to the printer. The phone hotspot may be a good way to do this, or bringing it back into the house and connecting to the network there, or using a wired connection that reaches to the internet.

An interesting setup might be to have the Orange Pi on a wired connection to the house internet and also setup a wifi hotspot on it. That would provide wifi in the shop, and if the routing was set up in the Orange Pi it could allow accessing the internet from that wifi.

Our postings overlapped. Unfortunately not all internet suggestions are helpful. The devil is in the details.


----------



## 7milesup (Nov 21, 2022)

I received my printed parts today!  A whole week earlier than predicted.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 21, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I received my printed parts today!  A whole week earlier than predicted.



It's a good day then.

My aluminum parts just showed up too.


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## AlanB (Nov 21, 2022)

Nice! Haven't had time yet to work on this project today. Getting ready for guests. Next Trident step is rail lubrication.


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## AlanB (Nov 21, 2022)

Decided to try a variation on Nero's technique for lubing the LDO rail carriages. Nero has been using a spray white lithium grease recently on his, injecting it through a mounting hole positioned over the center of the carriage. This way the lube is applied inside of the end seals and has direct access to the balls. I have exactly the same product on my shelf, it was recommended for the garage door system and a single application silenced the door support system, and it has lasted a good long time. My own twist was to punch a small hole in the sealed plastic sleeve on each rail and inject the lubricant into the rail while it is still in the package, then wrapping that with a paper towel section to catch the bit that comes out and keep the rail storage box cleaner. The LDO rails come in a box with separate slots for each rail, a really excellent packaging setup. Very clean and neat way to apply grease. These are stainless rails but they still need lubrication and don't appear to have grease from the factory.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 21, 2022)

I got a few hours of assembly time in today after I got Sailboat, moonscraper and Skipper dialed in.


----------



## 7milesup (Nov 21, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> I got a few hours of assembly time in today after I got Sailboat, moonscraper and Skipper dialed in.


Were you drinking too?  LOL


----------



## AlanB (Nov 21, 2022)

I installed 5 linear rails for Y and Z and a few other parts.

The frame square seems to have improved after I had to rework a few joints to get the rail mounting strips in. Doesn't rock at all now on the marble round.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 22, 2022)

A little more progress today.   It's time to stop working and start boozin.









Routing the gantry belts is a tedious job.  Luckily, the Voron manual is probably one of the best assembly manuals I've used. 

Whoever designed this thing, including the manual, did a fantastic job.  Also, the quality of the Voronkits.com parts kit is very good,  as is the quality of the CNC machined aluminum parts kit. 

The the aluminum parts are designed differently than the parts in the manual, so you have to do some thinking to figure out how it goes together.  It also uses different sized fasterners.  In some cases, assemblies that use both Voron kit parts and aluminum parts, go together differently and use less shims, shorter screws, etc.  All of the screws are included in the kit.  Everything fits, and appears to be well made.

  So far, i have used every single part from the aluminum kit except the extruder parts.

I'll get to those tomorrow.


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## AlanB (Nov 22, 2022)

I put the Z axes motors/leadscrews/etc in, and the X axis is mounted to the Y axis. Looks like belts are next. I have one plastic part that is supposed to grab the threads of a screw, seems to be wrong hole ID, screw doesn't grab at all, clearance ID instead. Hmmm. Just pulled it out and measured it, this screw was the last one in the m5x40 bag but it is an m5x35. Good thing there is a spares/backup bag in this kit. Found another m5x40 and it works correctly. Lost one M5 nut so far to the floor, but haven't run out yet and I see there are spares in the backup bag. I have more hardware if needed.

The LDO kit is excellent so far. The only real annoyance is the difficulty of getting the T-Nuts into place.


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## Ken226 (Nov 22, 2022)

AlanB said:


> I put the Z axes motors/leadscrews/etc in, and the X axis is mounted to the Y axis. Looks like belts are next. I have one plastic part that is supposed to grab the threads of a screw, seems to be wrong hole ID, screw doesn't grab at all, clearance ID instead. Hmmm. Just pulled it out and measured it, this screw was the last one in the m5x40 bag but it is an m5x35. Good thing there is a spares/backup bag in this kit. Found another m5x40 and it works correctly. Lost one M5 nut so far to the floor, but haven't run out yet and I see there are spares in the backup bag. I have more hardware if needed.
> 
> The LDO kit is excellent so far. The only real annoyance is the difficulty of getting the T-Nuts into place.



My T nuts were easy if slid in from the ends, but where I didn't have access to the rail ends, I dropped them in at an angle, the stuck a small hex wrench into the screw hole and rotated till it snapped in.  About 75% of the had to go in that way.


I had a few m5 t nuts in my m3 bag,  but otherwise my kit has been perfect.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 22, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> My T nuts were easy if slid in from the ends, but where I didn't have access to the rail ends, I dropped them in at an angle, the stuck a small hex wrench into the screw hole and rotated till it snapped in.  About 75% of the had to go in that way.
> 
> 
> I had a few m5 t nuts in my m3 bag,  but otherwise my kit has been perfect.



From the ends is not difficult, but tipping them in was tough. I didn't want to lever on the threads and possibly damage them so I used a spring loaded center punch and made a punch mark to the side of the top at an angle to impart rotation from the impact. Most took two hits to fully rotate.

Belts are on. I cut an extra inch and matched lengths for the second. Then I checked the remainder. There is probably barely enough for another pair left. Maybe. I should just buy a bunch and not worry about it.


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## AlanB (Nov 22, 2022)

I've used the original belts on the Prusa MK3 for years. I keep spares but never have needed them.


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## Ken226 (Nov 23, 2022)

AlanB said:


> I've used the original belts on the Prusa MK3 for years. I keep spares but never have needed them.



Yea, same here.  I have a drawer full of Flashforge Creator Pro spare parts.  An entire heated bed assembly, a motherboard.

It's been several years and the only thing that needed to be replaced are the mk10 ptfe heatbreak tubes and nozzles.  Ant that's been surprising to me, considering the number of plastic pulleys, idlers and how small the linear bearings are.

Giving how well this Voron is built, the thing should be utterly reliable.


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## AlanB (Nov 23, 2022)

I've had to relube the MK3 linear bearings, but that was at least partially due to the wrong lube initially. I didn't do anything from the factory because they didn't instruct us to, and later I used oil a few times which didn't last long before the balls start buzzing again. Finally I started greasing them and they have required a lot less maintenance ever since. I have spare bearings but as you have only needed to replace PTFE tubes and nozzles. I have upgrade kits to make it a MK3S+ but I've waited for a breakdown overhaul which hasn't happened. When the Voron is solid perhaps I'll work on the MK3. I also have a Bear frame for it that might be fun. One nice thing about the MK3 is that it is fairly small. It does need extra space for the bed to move, but the frame width is small for the print size, especially when it is not printing it can share some space. So it coexists nicely with things on the bench. The larger printers will probably end up in the room at the back of the garage. I want to keep one upstairs in my office, for now that will be the MK3. Eventually it may be a 160mm Voron Salad Fork which is a scaled down version of the Trident. Perhaps a 350mm Voron 2.4 or a 360mm Prusa XL would be good for the "print farm" for larger objects.


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## Ken226 (Nov 23, 2022)

I flashed the MCU on my Octopus board this morning.  

Obviously, I don't have the printer set up to test everything,  but it appears that Mainsail is communicating with the Octopus board.

Looks like this Orange Pi thing is actually going to work!


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## AlanB (Nov 23, 2022)

Excellent!

I just ran across a video talking about five under $50 alternatives to the Raspberry Pi. 




I see some Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W's trickling out in Germany and Canada. This is a small Pi, half the size of the Pi4, but it has a quadcore processor at about the level of a Pi3 so it is enough for Klipper. It would be especially good where space is a constraint such as in the smaller printers like a 0.1, Micron or Salad Fork. There are also CM4's available from Germany. Those can plug directly into a Manta controller or into a carrier board and run Klipper. Even the units without wifi can be equipped with a USB wifi dongle easily enough. Their eMMC memory is more reliable and faster than a microSD card. The Zero 2 W is way under $50 and many of the CM4 boards are also under that price point.

I saw a comment recently from a user who was having problems with his Klipper setup until he went to a high quality fast microSD card. Klipper is writing the card quite a bit so make sure a good card is selected. Backups of configuration files are also important if the card gets corrupted those files can be a lot of work to recreate.


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## AlanB (Nov 23, 2022)

Have you folks looked at the mods that allow access to the Voron electronics from the top instead of having to flip the printer over? There are mods for the Trident, and for the 2.4. On the 2.4 there is a hinged setup for the print platform and base to allow access, on the Trident the divider piece lifts out. Top access might be convenient, otherwise a lot of printer inversion exercises will be performed. 

https://mods.vorondesign.com/detail/pXkXHVIUbqSWqQKJISczw trident version


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## Ken226 (Nov 23, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Excellent!
> 
> 
> I saw a comment recently from a user who was having problems with his Klipper setup until he went to a high quality fast microSD card. Klipper is writing the card quite a bit so make sure a good card is selected. Backups of configuration files are also important if the card gets corrupted those files can be a lot of work to recreate.




Should I be running Klipper from an SD card?  If so,  why?  

It's probably habit, from 20 years of building Windows PCs for CAD use,  but first thing I did when the Orange pi booted up from the SD card was to put the Operating System on the internal Emmc,  and remove the SD card.  

I've had it running for 3 days now, and it seems to boot and run fine with the OS on the internal drive.  Is running it from the SD card beneficial?


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 23, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> Should I be running Klipper from an SD card?  If so,  why?
> 
> It's probably habit, from 20 years of building Windows PCs for CAD use,  but first thing I did when the Orange pi booted up from the SD card was to put the Operating System on the internal Emmc,  and remove the SD card.
> 
> I've had it running for 3 days now, and it seems to boot and run fine with the OS on the internal drive.  Is running it from the SD card beneficial?


Personally I'd run off the EMMC.  SD is pretty slow.  

On all my 3 RPI4's I boot direct from SSD.  Much, much faster than SD.  I just use a super cheap 128GB SATA SSD and a USB3 SATA adapter.  Makes these SBC's a lot more tolerable.


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## AlanB (Nov 23, 2022)

eMMC or SSD is better than SD. Most folks with Raspberry Pi setups run from microSD. If a good card is used it works adequately.

My Octoprint setup runs from Pi3 with microSD and has for years. Most of my Raspberry Pi systems run from microSD just fine. If they had onboard eMMC I would use it. But adding SSD is expensive and cumbersome. So it is only worthwhile when it matters. I generally go to SSD when it is something that I log into and actively use. For most Pi setups they have a set of tasks and I don't notice the benefits of faster local storage, so I don't bother. I have over a dozen Pi's in service, so adding stuff to each of them is quite a bit of bulk and cost. Many of them are in very small packages so there is no room. But I never mess with junky cheap uSD cards.

I do have fast solid state storage on a few of them. The Pi400 has a fast USB stick on it, not cheap but more compact. The 8GB Pi4 is in an Argon One case that supports an internal M.2 SSD. Those are both systems that are used more like small desktop computers. It is more worthwhile there. However I found those systems, even with fast storage, were a bit slow so I got a mini PC to use instead. It is a little more expensive (about double the cost of a fully outfitted Pi4-8), but with a Ryzen 5 it is many times faster than any Pi4. I wish the Pi5 had come out, but it did not, and the Pi's we are are able to buy are a bit slow for personal use. They make great dedicated machines but not really very good for interactive uses. This is not to say they are insufficient for 3d printing, that is a dedicated use and they are fine for that. But browsing the web or using them for other interactive purposes is generally not the best experience.


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 23, 2022)

AlanB said:


> eMMC or SSD is better than SD. Most folks with Raspberry Pi setups run from microSD. If a good card is used it works adequately.
> 
> My Octoprint setup runs from Pi3 with microSD and has for years. Most of my Raspberry Pi systems run from microSD just fine. If they had onboard eMMC I would use it. But adding SSD is expensive and cumbersome. So it is only worthwhile when it matters. I generally go to SSD when it is something that I log into and actively use. For most Pi setups they have a set of tasks and I don't notice the benefits of faster local storage, so I don't bother. I have over a dozen Pi's in service, so adding stuff to each of them is quite a bit of bulk and cost. Many of them are in very small packages so there is no room. But I never mess with junky cheap uSD cards.


My OctoPi (RPi3B), Print Server (RPi2B), and Sprinkler Controller (RPi2B) all run from uSD.  They are all low end controllers.  My RPi4's are on SSD.  The RPi4's are at least 5x faster running off SSD than uSD.  Way faster boot times.  I only buy decent name brand uSD cards, not worth the trouble with junk cards.


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## Ken226 (Nov 23, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Personally I'd run off the EMMC.  SD is pretty slow.



Ok, great.  I was hoping you guys would say that, since that's what I did.

3 days ago. 


My Orange pi has a 16gb EMMC,  so I should be all-set.


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## Ken226 (Nov 23, 2022)

The Aluminum extruder pars all went together well, with no problems. 






I got the LED's installed in my stealthburner head.  It was a bit of a pain in the butt printing a clear diffuser to go behind the logo,  but after jacking with the settings to get clear PETG to print, I finally got a good one.





There were no issues getting the stealthburner onto the aluminum Clockwork1 extruder.  It fits pretty well.


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## AlanB (Nov 23, 2022)

Nice!

Today I got a cutting mat to use on the marble round. Nice to have a little padding when not trying to square something up.


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## AlanB (Nov 23, 2022)

Found an interesting belt tension gauge. They recommend PETG but I printed one in the PLA+ that was already on the machine, and used it to check the MK3 and the Trident belts. The Prusa was at 2.0, as was one of the Trident belts, so I adjusted the other Trident belt from 1.5 to 2.0. I printed the "Rev1 Lite for 6mm" version.






						Printables
					






					www.printables.com


----------



## AlanB (Nov 23, 2022)




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## Ken226 (Nov 24, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Found an interesting belt tension gauge. They recommend PETG but I printed one in the PLA+ that was already on the machine, and used it to check the MK3 and the Trident belts. The Prusa was at 2.0, as was one of the Trident belts, so I adjusted the other Trident belt from 1.5 to 2.0. I printed the "Rev1 Lite for 6mm" version.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I needed one of those.  I'll print one tomorrow after work, so I can set my belt tension.

I'm going to have to adjust the design of the Z axis end stop switch housing.  The Voron design has no screw holes. Not even start hole.

And the 2mm "self tapping"  screws are close to the edges, so they just displace material and split the housing at the sides.  It also protrudes too far below the t-slot rail and forces the plastic bottom panel down several mm.  It's a cool design, but it needs a little TLC from Alibre Design.


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## 7milesup (Nov 24, 2022)

You guys probably thought I dropped off of the face of the Earth.  The truth is, I have been busy with work, getting ready for us to host Thanksgiving and deer hunting.  Got some shop time this morning.  I made an aluminum plate (.060") that will be glued to the plastic sheet under the build plate.  Hopefully, eliminate any chance of warping but also to reflect heat upwards toward the build chamber.

I can still not get my Orange Pi 3 LTS up and running.  It seems like every time I feel like I am getting somewhere, I end up two steps back.  Lately, the issue is not even getting past the login and password without a login fail.  Working on getting this thing back to square one and starting over.
@Ken226 I know that you are using a OPi 4, and I am wondering if that would be a better choice for me anyhow.  It appears that it has headers for LCD/Camera, which, if they are for a touch LCD screen, that would be easier to set up than the OPi 3 LTS that I have.


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## AlanB (Nov 24, 2022)

One fellow I know gets frustrated and reinstalls the OS on the Raspberry Pi when he gets stuck. This often results in major problems and nothing seeming to work properly. I suspect that his network gets confused and this adds to the problems.


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## AlanB (Nov 24, 2022)

I'm reviewing my on-hand toolhead parts. The PIF parts were made before StealthBurner was released, so it includes AfterBurner / Clockwork 1, and I requested LGX and Dragon parts so those were included. I think I'll go with AfterBurner / LGX / Dragon to start with, so as to not add more delays to the project and to avoid printing ABS on the MK3 which it is not set up for. I will have to watch the motor cabling and current for the LGX as it may differ from the provided wiring harness. Upgrading to StealthBurner / Revo / Tap can occur later. Speaking of which, Tap was scheduled to be released prior to today, haven't heard that it was yet.

I have mounts for the Super Pinda inductive probe, and the LDO kit came with Klicky parts, but we don't have printed parts for that. So perhaps I'll start with the Super Pinda just to keep things simple.


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## Ken226 (Nov 24, 2022)

7milesup said:


> You guys probably thought I dropped off of the face of the Earth.  The truth is, I have been busy with work, getting ready for us to host Thanksgiving and deer hunting.  Got some shop time this morning.  I made an aluminum plate (.060") that will be glued to the plastic sheet under the build plate.  Hopefully, eliminate any chance of warping but also to reflect heat upwards toward the build chamber.
> 
> I can still not get my Orange Pi 3 LTS up and running.  It seems like every time I feel like I am getting somewhere, I end up two steps back.  Lately, the issue is not even getting past the login and password without a login fail.  Working on getting this thing back to square one and starting over.
> @Ken226 I know that you are using a OPi 4, and I am wondering if that would be a better choice for me anyhow.  It appears that it has headers for LCD/Camera, which, if they are for a touch LCD screen, that would be easier to set up than the OPi 3 LTS that I have.


From what I understand, the only display that is  guaranteed plug &play for these things is a 10".

  The rest, seem to be made to work via some weird Linux command line voodo, written in Klingon by 16 year olds between games of Dungeons & Dragons.

My 5" screen works fine for display, but getting the touch screen  to work probably isn't going to happen.  Way over my head.

I ordered a 4.3" Waveshare "USB touch"  screen, that some have reported can be set up by normal people.



It's too bad your having trouble.  Did you boot up with SD card,  then do an update, then flat it to the EMMC, in that order?  Using Putty?

After getting putty set up and connected to the O'pi,  I copied/pasted the commands from the first post in this thread.

Except, I used Debian instead of Armbian.









						Installing Klipper on Armbian OS, like Orange Pi
					

Hi, I just want to share how I installed Klipper, Moonraker and fluidd on my Orange PIs. 1. Download Armbian (I use the debian/bullseye) for your board from here: https://www.armbian.com/download/ 2. Write the image to a 'good' SD card. 3. When booting for the first time, you are asked to create ...




					www.teamfdm.com


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## 7milesup (Nov 24, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> The rest, seem to be made to work via some weird Linux command line voodo, written in Klingon by 16 year olds between games of Dungeons & Dragons.


Right?!    This Linux is some weirdo stuff. 
I might be making some progress now.  I have my monitor, keyboard, and mouse hooked up and I am currently installing Klipper via WiFi.  We shall see...


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## Ken226 (Nov 24, 2022)

7milesup said:


> Right?!    This Linux is some weirdo stuff.
> I might be making some progress now.  I have my monitor, keyboard, and mouse hooked up and I am currently installing Klipper via WiFi.  We shall see...



Great!

After I got everything installed, connected to the octopus board and it's firmware flashed,  I just left it running.  It's still laying on the wife's little coffee table,  stand thing that sits under the wall mounted TV.

I saved it's IP address to my favorites list, in my phone.  Every now and then I connect to it, just to see if it's going to be stable.

It's been running for several days now, trouble free.

It's a pain to get set up, but once you do you probably won't have to mess with it again.


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## AlanB (Nov 24, 2022)

I generally document the process so if I need to do it again it is easy to. Often listing the steps helps find errors in the process.


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## 7milesup (Nov 25, 2022)

I was able to get all of the software loaded onto my Orange Pi 3 LTS. 
@Ken226 How do you have the Octopus hooked to your Orange Pi?  You said it is sitting there with your Orange Pi, which is running Klipper.  I was just wondering how you have everything powered. 
I am stoked that I was able to get this working.  One of my realizations after I got this done is that I was way overthinking this process.  One of the Ah-ha moments was the fact that I did not need Putty at all since my UI was the keyboard, mouse, and monitor connected directly to the Opi.  This resulted in utilizing the baked-in Chrome browser and then the command line in Kiauh to get it all installed and running.

 I am hoping that I can get some shop time today and make some serious progress.


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## Ken226 (Nov 25, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I was able to get all of the software loaded onto my Orange Pi 3 LTS.
> @Ken226 How do you have the Octopus hooked to your Orange Pi?  You said it is sitting there with your Orange Pi, which is running Klipper.  I was just wondering how you have everything powered.
> I am stoked that I was able to get this working.  One of my realizations after I got this done is that I was way overthinking this process.  One of the Ah-ha moments was the fact that I did not need Putty at all since my UI was the keyboard, mouse, and monitor connected directly to the Opi.  This resulted in utilizing the baked-in Chrome browser and then the command line in Kiauh to get it all installed and running.
> 
> I am hoping that I can get some shop time today and make some serious progress.




Mine is currently connected using a charger cable from my Motorola G-power phone.  It's a regular usb-a to usb-c cord.

Make sure the power jumper is installed, and connect the Orange Pi and octopus with a regular USB to usb-c cable.

The jumper has to be installed so the USB power will power the board.

Later, make sure the jumper is removed before you connect the 24v power supply to the octopus.  It (so I hear) can smoke the board If you leave the jumper on and connect the USB and 24v at the same time.

Later, when you are doing the electrical,  check your power supplies.  Mine have a switch to set 240v or 120v input.  Mine were default set to 240v.


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## Ken226 (Nov 25, 2022)

But,

You don't need the octopus board connected to orange pi to flash the firmware.  Just a SD card, and USB to (with jumper installed), to power the board.  I did my firmware flash with the octopus connected to the O'pi,  because, it was a convenient USB power supply.  But I could have plugged the USB into a laptop, or anything to supply power.

 Once the board powers up with the flashcard firmware file inserted, it'll flash the firmware to the MCU automatically.

I used the instructions here, option#1






						Octopus (Pro) Klipper Firmware
					

Voron Official and Community Documentation




					docs.vorondesign.com
				




Follow the first set of instructions to create the firmware file,   then the "option 1" instructions to save it onto you SD card and flash it onto the MCU.

Youll need to know your MCU chip model.  Its printed on the top of the chip.  Mine was the stm32f446.

I had to search a bit in the O'pi file explorer to find the firmware.bin file.


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## Ken226 (Nov 26, 2022)

the Alibaba magnetic build plate Ive been using in my flashforge warped.  I guess a solid month of near 24/7 use printing mostly ABS finally did it in. Between my collet racks, and this Voron project, it's been running nearly constantly.

It was pretty bad.  Parts started lifting at the edges, but sticking so well in the center that it wouldn't come off.  Not even with a steel scraper. I had to dissolve it off with acetone.

When I tried to re-level the build plate,  after setting the right gap distance at 3 corners, the nozzle was dragging across the center.



I can't mill it flat  because it's the type with lots  magnets pressed into pockets in the top face. (Probably why it warped).   Milling the top off of a bunch of neodymium magnets probably wouldn't go well.

Yesterday I made a new plate,  but this time I'm going with a stick-on magnet, like the one in my Voron kit.  So, I gotta make do without my Flashforge until Thursday, when Amazon drops off the new magnetic sticker.


That gives me some time to redesign my touchscreen housing to fit the new Waveshare USB touch 4.3" that I ordered.  I was able to get most of the dimensions from their website, but ill have to wait for the screen to arrive before I can finish it up, as im missing some important dimensions.

  I spent some time further optimized the design for 3d printing.  If it goes to plan, I should be able to print the entire housing with no supports!

The smaller screen also gives me a little more room for a nicer, 2-piece bezel design too while fitting within the confines of available space.

I may adjust the model to add some USB ports on one of the sides, once I find the right USB extension hardware on Amazon.

  something like this:








Positioned on the bed like this,  there shouldn't be any angles that exceed 45 degrees relative to the print surface and no bridging.  I'll print this in PLA.


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## AlanB (Nov 26, 2022)

I have one of those 4.3" displays but have not used it yet. I also have one of the really simple knob and LCD displays that can work with Klipper. I've been wondering if the touch screen is worth the trouble and cost. Generally I control the printer mostly from Octoprint. On the Prusa the knob and LCD works fine for heating up and ejecting and loading filament which is about all I use it for. How useful is the touch screen versus a simple knob and display??


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## Ken226 (Nov 26, 2022)

AlanB said:


> I have one of those 4.3" displays but have not used it yet. I also have one of the really simple knob and LCD displays that can work with Klipper. I've been wondering if the touch screen is worth the trouble and cost. Generally I control the printer mostly from Octoprint. On the Prusa the knob and LCD works fine for heating up and ejecting and loading filament which is about all I use it for. How useful is the touch screen versus a simple knob and display??



Probably not very useful at all, depending on the accuracy of my current knowledge and assumptions.

I could be totally wrong about the following, but my reading this far indicates that the little screens that connects to the octopus board are only capable of displaying info from Klipper.  It can't be used to load g-code files from a USB drive,  scroll through options, change temps/speeds, etc.

I'm trying to set up a screen that's connected to the Orange pi and is compatible with Klipperscreen.

I'd like to be able to plug in a thumb drive,  load and start printing a g-code file,  change speeds, temps, do bed levelling without any internet.  I like the internet thing and all,  but I would very much like to have complete control from an interface that's hard wired and attached to the machine as well.

If Comcast gets too uppity and I tell them to go pound sand,  I don't wanna be running out to the my shop building, trying to turn on a hotspot,  searching IP addresses, etc, just to print plastic widget.


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## AlanB (Nov 26, 2022)

I think Nero said the little Klipper display/knob does everything he wants a screen to do, it communicates with Klipper via the controller board, and appears to have all the usual functionality, just through a knob rather than touching the screen. He didn't seem to think the touch screen was necessary. Klipper controls the temperatures, motions, runs the macros, reads the gcode files, etc. I don't know about selecting print files from that screen. Certainly that works with Marlin, I would think Klipper would have to do at least as much. Looks like it does from the video below. It should be adequate for basic functionality. Originally I was planning to use that so I have it on hand. That was before KlipperScreen was commonly used.

Many folks use an old/cheap/free tablet or phone to communicate with Octoprint or Mainsail, etc, to do these things (and don't bother with a screen on the printer at all, or rarely use it if it is there). The touch KlipperScreen should be pretty similar, though I suppose that is comparing KlipperScreen with the full Mainsail/etc interface so there will be differences. And it probably doesn't support all features like editing config files. 

I don't depend on Comcast (or any internet provider) for home networking. I don't use their wireless, I have a three node mesh that covers the house and shop much better. If I unplug Comcast nothing changes here except internet access.

I never use the SD or USB card on the printer for print files. I know people who do use them, and they often have problems with them getting flakey. Apparently the low budget sockets aren't up to the actual specs for number of insert cycles, so they are a reliability problem.

Here's a comparison video showing several options for Klipper user interfacing: 




KlipperScreen does have a lot of nice options. One thing that is useful it has features to update the Pi or shut it down. The simple screens didn't seem to have that functionality, though a shutdown option might be easy to add in the configuration, the update option is not likely do-able.


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## Ken226 (Nov 26, 2022)

AlanB said:


> I don't depend on Comcast (or any internet provider) for home networking. I don't use their wireless, I have a three node mesh that covers the house and shop much better. If I unplug Comcast nothing changes here except internet access.



It looks like pretty much any and all of these options would, probably, work for me then.

I have no idea what a three node mesh is, but I'm assuming it's some kind of wifi router?



I may experiment with this idea.

So, I have an old Linksys router,  the blue one with the two antennas from around 2005, ish.  If I unplugged the Ethernet cable and put it out in the shop,  it would still work as a  access point for the 3d printer,  Just without internet access?

I bet I can access the router wirelessly with my CNC mill.  It's computer uses  Windows 7,  and internet explorer.


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## AlanB (Nov 26, 2022)

Yes, if you set up an old Linksys it will make a wifi network. We do exactly that in the forest for Ham Radio Field Day.

The network meshing is a more capable automated local wireless network. The mesh nodes work together to automagically create a wireless and wired network. Each node has a connection for the internet (only one is used) and a connection for a local wired network (which you can use or not, but it gives us a wired network island in the vicinity of the node). They present two wireless networks for the users, one is for guests and one for us, so we can allow guests without sharing our network password, and change guest passwords as often as we choose. The nodes evaluate the wireless path and choose the best path so the phone or 3d printer or whatever doesn't have to worry about different networks, and as it moves a different path may be the best path. It just appears as one network to the device. The three nodes in my mesh network use a 5 ghz back channel to communicate with each other and relay traffic, so there are no cables, there are various product in this market space with different features. They can relay through so the edges of the network can be farther than direct paths would support. My experience has been that it works better than a single router/wifi and aside from occasionally one node needing a power cycle they have been trouble free. A larger area might require more nodes.

Keeping the network off the internet is good for security but makes software updates difficult.


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## Ken226 (Nov 26, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Yes, if you set up an old Linksys it will make a wifi network. We do exactly that in the forest for Ham Radio Field Day.
> 
> The network meshing is a more capable automated local wireless network. The mesh nodes work together to automagically create a wireless and wired network. Each node has a connection for the internet (only one is used) and a connection for a local wired network (which you can use or not, but it gives us a wired network island in the vicinity of the node). They present two wireless networks for the users, one is for guests and one for us, so we can allow guests without sharing our network password, and change guest passwords as often as we choose. The nodes evaluate the wireless path and choose the best path so the phone or 3d printer or whatever doesn't have to worry about different networks, and as it moves a different path may be the best path. It just appears as one network to the device. The three nodes in my mesh network use a 5 ghz back channel to communicate with each other and relay traffic, so there are no cables, there are various product in this market space with different features. They can relay through so the edges of the network can be farther than direct paths would support. My experience has been that it works better than a single router/wifi and aside from occasionally one node needing a power cycle they have been trouble free. A larger area might require more nodes.
> 
> Keeping the network off the internet is good for security but makes software updates difficult.



Excellent info.

I got the router set up in the shop about an hour ago.  I took the Orange Pi out, and connected it to the router via WiFi.   It seems to be stable, and working good.





I'll leave it running and connect to the O'pi Mainsail with a web browser occasionally, to make sure it's going to be stable.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 27, 2022)

I have a similar setup using a GL-AR750S portable wifi router that we use in the camping trailer. It also creates a small wifi and wired network that we use to connect the trailer TV to a small server for movies and so on. What makes this wifi router more useful is it's ability to connect to my phone's wifi hotspot (or other sources) and bridge access to the internet through the cellular network or most any other internet source. With a setup like this you can get access to the internet when needed, but don't have to have it all the time. It is a tiny portable private network box with lots of useful features.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 29, 2022)

I'm scrapping the touchscreen ideal and putting in the Mini12864 that came with the kit.  I'm on the second Amazon touchscreen that displays fine, but  touch won't work no matter how much google searchin and command line *******t I do.  I'll keep them for the day I get a Raspberry Pi and feel like trying again.  Or, perhaps I'll hange them from a tree @ 600 yards and work them over with my FN SPR.

I spent the better part of the day working on the electrical stuff.  You guys are in for a treat when you start routing the wiring through the cable chains.   I'll probably have nightmares tonight about drowning in a giant bowl of spaghetti, or wrestling with a giant squid or something?


----------



## AlanB (Nov 29, 2022)

Sorry you are having trouble with the touchscreen. Hopefully that will be easier with a real Pi. 

What did your kit come with in terms of wiring and cables for the cable chain? Do you have to make up cables or is it plug and play?


----------



## AlanB (Nov 29, 2022)

I've been working slowly on the Trident toolhead. I have PIF plastic for the Afterburner toolhead but the LDO kit didn't include the right fan for that, so I obtained a 4020 24V fan and fitted that to the toolhead today. The Dragon hotend is in place, and the LGX extruder. Still to do is workout mounting for the toolhead PCB and cablechain end and all the wire management on the toolhead. I'm trying to work with the ABS PIF parts and avoid printing ABS on the MK3.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 29, 2022)

Just noticed that there were some CM4 boards tonite at the pishop.us, already gone, probably not a big batch. Would have been good for Klipper, either on a carrier board or on a Manta controller board. There are still some in Germany, but it is difficult and expensive to get boards from there.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 29, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Sorry you are having trouble with the touchscreen. What did your kit come with in terms of wiring and cables for the cable chain?


It came with all of the needs wires, plugs pre-installed.  The kit was honestly pretty good.  I have no complaints about the kit quality.


Of course, because I'm going with the stealthburner I have to do some customizing, but nothing difficult there. 

The cable chains have little gates that pop off for access.  One per link .   There are a lot of wires, and they're about 6ft long,  in order to make it all the way through the cable chains.  It's very, very easy to end up with a tangled mess. Now that I've done it once, it would be alot easier to do again.

If you stay organized, and take your time it'll go smoothly.    

I got a lot done today.  The fashorge is printing the mini12864 housing now,  and a custom rear center skirt to accommodate a pair of wifi router style antennas. 

Ill finish up the limit switches and cable chain stuffing tomorrow.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 29, 2022)

Pre-wired cables save a lot of time, though they are slightly harder to route through the chains than wire bundles since the connectors pretty much require opening the chain gates. The Voron 2.4 has a bit more cable length and more chains than the Trident, due to the moving gantry.

I need to work out mounting for the LDO/Hartk toolhead breakout board. The LGX presents slightly different mounting than they expected. Shouldn't be too hard and it will change later anyway.

The mount that came with PIF for the SuperPinda inductive sensor needs to be reamed out a bit to fit. Also the holes for the short bowden tube between the extruder and the hotend seem to be too small, so some fitting to do there. Mostly cleaning up the holes with a drill bit should do it.

Looks like you are almost ready for smoke testing.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 29, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Pre-wired cables save a lot of time, though they are slightly harder to route through the chains than wire bundles since the connectors pretty much require opening the chain gates. The Voron 2.4 has a bit more cable length and more chains than the Trident, due to the moving gantry.
> 
> I need to work out mounting for the LDO/Hartk toolhead breakout board. The LGX presents slightly different mounting than they expected. Shouldn't be too hard and it will change later anyway.
> 
> ...



I just did, about 5 minutes ago.

So far, nothing caught on fire and the only things that lit up are things that (probably) are supposed to.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 29, 2022)

Now I need to figure out where/how to fix this in the config text file.


----------



## WobblyHand (Nov 29, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> Now I need to figure out where/how to fix this in the config text file.
> 
> View attachment 428186


Here's a naive answer: 
Open up your printer.cfg file.  Is there a line at or near the top that says 
#include mainsail.cfg
?


----------



## AlanB (Nov 29, 2022)

Time to go through one of the Klipper config videos or articles for the Voron. There are a number of config files to set up for the controller, wiring harness, motors, sensors, etc.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 29, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Here's a naive answer:
> Open up your printer.cfg file.  Is there a line at or near the top that says
> #include mainsail.cfg
> ?



No.  But, I copied and pasted the line from the Mainsail.cfg file into the Printer.cfg file, and the errors are all gone. 

now im running through the "initial startup" operations from here:






						Initial Startup
					

Voron Official and Community Documentation




					docs.vorondesign.com
				




So far, the fans, heaters and thermisters are testing good!


----------



## AlanB (Nov 29, 2022)

Just found the Omron inductive sensor, didn't realize there was one in this kit since it includes Klicky. It was mixed in with the cabling. So I'll use that since it just fits with minimum fuss and should plug directly into the cable harness. I'm thinking I will skip the Klicky for now since it is not critical and would be replaced later anyway with Tap.

Now printing a standoff to separate the toolhead board from the LGX. Sounds like some fan bearings are wearing out... They rattle at certain speeds for a bit and then quiet down..


----------



## 7milesup (Nov 29, 2022)

The next step for me is the gantry build.

That is really awesome that you are getting yours finished up Ken.


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 29, 2022)

Good progress today.  I got the homing and levelling parameters working






At the end, I thought something was wrong.

Nope, it was just finished levelling.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 30, 2022)

Was wondering why the bed frame spherical bearing screws didn't catch, had forgotten about the problem I had with the nuts not being retained, and after losing the first one I left them out of the assemblies. The accent piece is apparently supposed to retain them but it has a large enough clearance they can and do fall out. So they are installed now and the bed frame is mounted. I had delayed that and jumped to other assembly processes so it was longer than usual between the steps. Luckily the LDO kit has a spare nut since the first one disappeared on the floor somewhere..


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 30, 2022)

Just FYI,

I was having some probe accuracy problems.  Tightened my Z belts to the 2nd from the highest setting on the belt tension gauge that Alan posted a couple days ago, and the accuracy got way, way better.   Probably a side effect of the design, but these are way tighter than the belts in my flashforge.

Here is the accuracy check after tightening the belts.











By the way,  the hammerhead t-nuts they put in our kit for the enclosure mounting, they suck!   The clearance is so close to the rail slot size that half of them have to be forced in, and they rarely rotate and grab like they are supposed to.  On about half of them I had to reach in with a tiny allen wrench and rotate them.  I hope whoever sourced those for this kit catches gonorrhea.

Quad gantry levelling is now successful, thanks to Alan's belt tool.  Thanks!!


I can already see,  I'm gonna need some case lighting in this thing.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 30, 2022)

Printers need a lot of light, even when not enclosed. I have some 24V led strip material that I plan to use. Perhaps Voron Mods has some good mounts for this.

Sounds like a lot more tension than I am using. I'll keep that in mind.

I had a near miss, today I'm printing some missing parts for the Voron, little stuff that I can replace later. One of them, the Z probe body, came unstuck from the printbed and made a small blob of doom but it did not stick to the printhead so no damage done. Earlier the printed underbed WAGO mount came out fine. These operate near the printbed so I'll have to print ABS replacements very soon before they melt. 

The LDO kit hammerhead nuts have been ok so far. I have used a few of them. Variations in extrusions and nuts are a common problem in these small extrusion sizes. I was sliding some of the Tnuts into the bed extrusion and about 20% of them would not even slide in easily from the end.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 30, 2022)

On Prusa Live today they talked about the coming soon Prusa Slicer 2.6 with Organic Supports and Measurements. Organic supports are much improved, easier to remove, and use less plastic. They look like the model is being attacked by wild plant growths. The Measurements allow selecting features in the object (such as holes) and getting measurements, and also allows scaling to force desired measurement values. Sounds very useful. Coming soon. They will release (in the next day or so) some pre-sliced models that show how the supports look and you can try printing them.

Their interview this time is a company that puts data acquisition into baseball bats and balls using 3d printing for prototyping, quite interesting.

They mentioned that Prusa Slicer has 14 developers now. It is competing for 3D Printing Industry awards that are being voted now, so you can vote on the competition now. Link Below.





 Prusa Live #47

https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/3d-printing-industry-awards-2022-vote-now-216637/ Voting open till 10 December


----------



## Ken226 (Nov 30, 2022)

I made it through all of the calibrations today.   Extruder PID, Bed PID, extruder feed rate, etc.

Everything is working as it should.  The only calibration i had trouble with was the probe/gantry levelling, which was fixed with belt tension.

All that's left to do is the front doors/hinges and to learn how to use Cura.   I downloaded it, and it's a lot different than Flashprint.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 30, 2022)

Very nice!

I haven't used Cura in years. I think Prusa Slicer has Voron configurations. I'll stick with that.

Is that normal for the cable chains to rise up like that? Some I see do that, others are more parallel with the arc at the ends. Do they wear in after awhile?

I've been sorting out the LDO "mods" today. Two steps forward and one step back.


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 1, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Very nice!
> 
> I haven't used Cura in years. I think Prusa Slicer has Voron configurations. I'll stick with that.
> 
> ...



I have no idea if that's normal or not.  There's a little "spring" to them.  If I push down on those spots, they pop back up.

I think its beause there are so many wires inside. They are literally, stuffed full.  If I had used a toolhead PCB or canbus, I could have got away with alot less wires and they would probably lay flat under their own weight.

Ill download Prusa Slicer tomorrow and try it out. Maybe it'll be more like what I'm accustomed to.


----------



## AlanB (Dec 1, 2022)

I've wondered about the way the chains move. Perhaps they are filled beyond the specifications, generally specs call for quite a lot of free space. I haven't heard of full cable chains on Vorons, hope it isn't a problem. The type of wire is critical in chains for long life, either PTFE or FEP insulation is recommended. Quality cable chain wire is not cheap. It is one area where a kit might cut corners. Early on the Voron developers and builders used various types of wire that were not good in cable chains, and they had a lot of cable failures. So they learned the hard way.

Canbus would certainly cut the cabling way down, and the canbus boards generally have an accelerometer for input shaping built right in, very convenient. The Salad Fork kit has Canbus included. It is another layer of complexity for configuration and updating, so there is some downside.

Early on I bought a partial wiring kit with those flat flexible printed type cables to replace the cable chains. Many printers such as the Artillery Sidewinder use them. It makes for a very clean cable management setup. They don't seem to have become popular on the Vorons. Hopefully I will be able to use them someday.

Prusa Slicer has a lot of features, it can be set into simple, advanced or expert modes and this exposes more or less of the interface. It has divided the parameters into different groups such as Print, Filament or Printer settings which is convenient once you get used to it, especially if you have more than one printer, and we all have more than one print and filament to work with, so it is a useful grouping. It also allows to save everything into a project file so you can keep your customized settings along with the object files for a complete package. There is a bit of a learning curve with all slicers.

Unlike most slicer developers, Prusa has a large printer farm using it's own printers and software. So they really live by their own features and performance. With 14 developers on Prusa Slicer and hundreds of printers in the farm running 24x7 they have more invested than most companies and they benefit directly from improvements they make.


----------



## 7milesup (Dec 1, 2022)

The reason that those cable chains may not lay flat is three-fold...
1.)  Too many wires in the cable chain.
2.)  Wires, not spec'd for short radius flexibility.  I suspect that this might be the leading culprit here, as these Chinese el-cheapo wires are not of great quality.  I was considering using silicone high-strand count wiring in mine, but that would require me to take the time to make new wire harnesses. 
3.)  Poor quality cable chain resulting in the links not moving freely.

I hope to get back to my build soon but have been very busy with work and other pressing projects.  I needed to get my snowplow ready for my tractor and get some more lights on it so I can see at night.  I spent nearly the entire weekend building outdoor Christmas trees for my wife.  They are quite large (8ft, 7ft & 6ft along with three at 5ft) so that took a bunch of time.  Oh, I had to upgrade my computer's hard drive the other night too.


----------



## Enoch (Dec 1, 2022)

7milesup said:


> The link that you provided has the STEP files, but I do not see the STL files.  What am I missing?


This may have been brought up, but step files are better than stl, and just slice them.  Leave the triangles in the past!


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 1, 2022)

Enoch said:


> This may have been brought up, but step files are better than stl, and just slice them.  Leave the triangles in the past!



That's never been an option for me before with Flashprint.  So, Cura and Prusaslicer are able to slice .step files?


----------



## Enoch (Dec 1, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> That's never been an option for me before with Flashprint.  So, Cura and Prusaslicer are able to slice .step files?


PrusaSlicer can, I assumed Cura did too, I've never used it.


----------



## AlanB (Dec 1, 2022)

The Voron users have had trouble with silicone insulated wire in cable chains. Also PVC experience was not good. Only PTFE and FEP insulation are recommended for cable chains. I just checked the Voron BOM and they call for PTFE insulated wire there. Discussions on Reddit mention that FEP wire insulation is also good.

More Information about cable chain wiring fill is on the IGUS site: https://www.igus.eu/info/energy-chains-filling-cables-and-hoses#section_10


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## 7milesup (Dec 1, 2022)

Enoch said:


> This may have been brought up, but step files are better than stl, and just slice them.  Leave the triangles in the past!


I agree that STEP files are much better.  I imported the whole Voron design into Solidworks utilizing STEP files.  I wasn't really asking what, but rather where; as in where are the files so I can download and hit print since I wasn't changing anything on the design.
I appreciate your input though!


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## AlanB (Dec 1, 2022)

Print files are on the Voron Github.


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## Ken226 (Dec 1, 2022)

I spotted some info on the Voron documentation site recommending using an audio spectrometer app to tighten the belts.

Run the gantry to the bottom, the pluck the belts like a guitar string.  Adjust the tension to 140hz.

I found an app on the play store. I'll try the method after work this evening.

Anyone  done this?


----------



## AlanB (Dec 1, 2022)

I have not used the resonant technique. I saw 110 hz mentioned, it depends on the free length of the belt, and is subject to some disagreement. I plan to stick with a tension gauge. I might calibrate the gauge against force which is not hard to do.


----------



## AlanB (Dec 1, 2022)

I've decided to reprint some of the recently printed PLA pieces in PETG. They will hold up much better in the warmer places. They are not critical parts, those are already PIF ABS. But some of them are going to get fairly warm when this printer prints ABS at chamber temperatures of 50C. Some are below the deck panel and for those PETG or maybe even PLA should be fine long-term. Three parts are above the deck panel and near the heated bed so those will be subject to higher temperatures. I plan to print ABS replacements when the printer is working, but for now I will upgrade to PETG for those parts. 

I suspect PLA would be fine for the skirt pieces. They better not get too hot... But PETG would be better.


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 1, 2022)




----------



## 7milesup (Dec 1, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Print files are on the Voron Github.


Yes, I know that.  Not what the conversation was about.


----------



## AlanB (Dec 1, 2022)

7milesup said:


> Yes, I know that.  Not what the conversation was about.



Wasn't clear. Most slicers cannot read STEP files, it is a recent addition to Cura and Prusa Slicer. So not many 3D printing sources provide them, some CAD packages don't even use or export STEP.. If they are not in the Github repository you could request them on the Voron discord.


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 1, 2022)

I'm not sure how, but tightening my xy belts  made a huge difference in gantry levelling time.   I'm getting it levelled in half the time now.  This thing likes the belts run tight. All of them.


----------



## AlanB (Dec 1, 2022)

Interesting result.


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 2, 2022)

@7milesup 

I think you got the same kit that I did.  If your kit came with the same Z endstop microswitch as mine, go ahead and throw it in the garbage now.  Save yourself some built plate scars!

At best, its + or - .3mm accuracy.  Anyone know of an alternative that can get me closer to about .05mm or better?


----------



## AlanB (Dec 2, 2022)

Ouch, 0.3mm plus or minus is awful. The recommended switches in the BOM should be adequate.


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 2, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Ouch, 0.3mm plus or minus is awful. The recommended switches in the BOM should be adequate.



I think mine is one of those listed in the BOM. Maybe I got a lemon switch.

The Omron proximity probe used for bed leveling seems very accurate.

Is there any reason I couldn't make a steel block to mount in place of the Z endstop switch,  and change the config file to use the Omron probe pin/ signal as the Z endstop as well as for levelling?

It would eliminate the possibility of losing accuracy due to filament drooling out of the nozzle as well.


----------



## AlanB (Dec 2, 2022)

The purpose of the Z switch is to home the z axis and compensate for nozzle length. It should be done at 150C to squish out any plastic. But it's not the only way to home the Z axis. Some methods compensate for nozzle length and some do not.

You could just skip the Z switch and use the omron on the bed for Z. That's what the Prusa MK3 does and it works quite well. The final height goes from there and applies an offset that you tune. Just have to find a macro that works that way. It won't automatically compensate for nozzle length, so when you change nozzles you'll have to readjust the offset.


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 3, 2022)

My own research is indicating that the accuracy of the Voron Z microswitch should be plenty for this application.

I'm going to do some further testing and inspection of the switch,  and disassemble/reassemble both my Stealthburner and the switch to make sure everything is tight enough. 

I'll run the z up and down over the switch a few dozen times while running some query_endstops commands to see how repeatable it actually is.

A new switch is only about 7$ on Amazon, so I ordered another one.  I'll either need it, or have a spare.


----------



## AlanB (Dec 3, 2022)

Other very popular, simple and inexpensive options are the Voron Klicky, Euclid or Un-Klicky. This LDO kit included both the Klicky and the Z probe, as well as the Omron inductive sensor.

I keep hearing that the switches wear out after a time, so having a spare is prudent. Accuracy usually improves with lower speed, most macros seem to use multiple passes with lower speeds at the final to improve accuracy. I suspect it is very likely some lower quality switches get into the supply chain.

It might be worth ordering the switches from Digikey rather than Amazon. The supply chain is more reliable.


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 4, 2022)

@7milesup and @AlanB

I just wanted to report a pretty big breakthrough in my Z end stop woes.

I saw a post somewhere, one some website about these things with multiple people complaining about the same issue.  There was one reply in the thread I noticed that everyone else seemed to ignore as they were spitballing ideas back and forth.    Noone seemed to even notice his post.

Anyway, the recommendation was to "stress relieve" the gantry.  Since its common to get a little misalignment when torquing the M5x40 gantry screws; the ones that go under, and upward to hold the gantry corners to the gantry end parts.  The recommendation was to heat the bed and extruder to operation temps, then crack those four m5x40 screws loose and run several homing and quad gantry levelling sequences. 

Then after running several homing and quad gantry level sequences several times, run the toolhead to center (150mm on X, Y, and Z for me), and torque torque the four M5x40 screws back down.   I guess, to re-lock the gantry corners to the Z linear rails while its all level.

Well, the proof is in the pudding.  No more limit switch issues.  It's repeating to pretty much dead nuts now.  The inductive probe seems to be achieving lever on the first try now, every time.  
	

		
			
		

		
	







Those numbers are  mm, btw.


----------



## 7milesup (Dec 4, 2022)

That is awesome @Ken226.  Do you happen to know what forum/website you saw that on?  Just curious.


----------



## AlanB (Dec 4, 2022)

Great Progress.

I put together a Repbox today. Humidity controlled box for feeding rolls of filament. Lots of options for feeding in different directions. Looks like it will just fit on the shelf I have above the printer. It will hold 6 or 7 of the 1kg reels. They show it here with smaller reels. They have lots of options including wall mounting, LEDs, etc.


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 4, 2022)

7milesup said:


> That is awesome @Ken226.  Do you happen to know what forum/website you saw that on?  Just curious.



No.  I even went back and tried to find it before I posted the results here, in case someone asked.

I couldn't find it.


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 4, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Great Progress.
> 
> I put together a Repbox today. Humidity controlled box for feeding rolls of filament. Lots of options for feeding in different directions. Looks like it will just fit on the shelf I have above the printer. It will hold 6 or 7 of the 1kg reels. They show it here with smaller reels. They have lots of options including wall mounting, LEDs, etc.
> 
> View attachment 428767


 Damn...!

I want one of those.  Whether I need it or not.


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 4, 2022)

It's running like a champ now!   The Orange Pi was a good call.


I have a set of these hinges printing.









						Door Hinges
					

Voron 2.4 Hinge Mod for 3mm Doors with 3mm Foam This is designed for 3mm door panels with 3mm of foam. I used the laser cut panels from Printed Solid which are 3.175 (1/8") and the foam tape from Amazon. They are design to fit Misumi extrusions. If the width of your extrusion is not the same, you...




					www.teamfdm.com
				





I'll finish up the front doors tomorrow.

My test cubes are hitting the dimensions, close enough for my tastes.


These cubes were run at 120mm/s.  Double the speed my Flashforge runs at.


----------



## AlanB (Dec 4, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> Damn...!
> 
> I want one of those.  Whether I need it or not.


I've been wanting one since 2019, finally did it. It will be handy to have a selection of filaments "ready to go". It can also be used to feed a multi-material unit.


----------



## AlanB (Dec 5, 2022)

Found a problem with the belt routing. Was wondering why the Trident's CoreXY motion friction was higher than the Railcore. Dismissed it as the LDO Voron motors are taller which generally means more detent torque, but while the printer was upside down and turned around for electronics work noticed part of the belt path was wrong and was significantly rubbing on the plastic. It pays to investigate these questions. Much better now, and should have cut the belts a bit shorter.

Have the DIN rails and the electronics mounted, getting ready to trim and mount the cable ducting and drag chains. Enjoying the slow build pace. 

Printed a few fun little cali dragons on the Prusa, each with different filaments, good samples.


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 5, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Found a problem with the belt routing. Was wondering why the Trident's CoreXY motion friction was higher than the Railcore. Dismissed it as the LDO Voron motors are taller which generally means more detent torque, but while the printer was upside down and turned around for electronics work noticed part of the belt path was wrong and was significantly rubbing on the plastic. It pays to investigate these questions. Much better now, and should have cut the belts a bit shorter.
> 
> Have the DIN rails and the electronics mounted, getting ready to trim and mount the cable ducting and drag chains. Enjoying the slow build pace.
> 
> Printed a few fun little cali dragons on the Prusa, each with different filaments, good samples.



I think I know exactly what your belt problem was.  I took me an hour or two to realize it when I did it. 

Let me guess,   in the back, where the belt loops around the corner pulley, you missed that tiny space it has to be fished through, and had it looped around part of the motor/pulley housing too.   I had to use little hex wrenches as pokers, to reach in and push the belt in the directions I wanted it to go.




My Flashforge is sitting idle, while my Voron has been running all morning printing its own parts.

It does a great job on the surface finish.  Better than my Flashforge.   Well, better than my Flashforge is now. My Flashforge maybe, possibly was this good when it was new.







The doors are done:









Now i'm using it to print some internal housing to mount some ws2812b neopixel strips to use for chamber lighting.  Set up diagonally, I can easily print these 13" long housings. .







BTW:  The double table stands are just a temp workbench....  I have space for the Voron out in the shop, but its about 28 degrees out there right now, so I'm building this thing in the house.


----------



## AlanB (Dec 5, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> I think I know exactly what your belt problem was. I took me an hour or two to realize it when I did it.
> 
> Let me guess, in the back, where the belt loops around the corner pulley, you missed that tiny space it has to be fished through, and had it looped around part of the motor/pulley housing too. I had to use little hex wrenches as pokers, to reach in and push the belt in the directions I wanted it to go.



Probably the same exact spot. I threaded the belts from the front and didn't notice it for awhile, it was working fine except for more than expected friction (electronics not finished so wasn't powered yet). Looking from the rear it was pretty obvious. Fun re-threading those belts! And then de-racking the gantry and getting equal tension on the belts again. Seems fine now...

Great progress there. I have some of those same portable tables. The Voron must wobble a bit on them. 

Some parts were missing on my Repbox, those were shipped today. Should be able to finish that this week. Just going through my filament storage and dessicant. I use some 5 gallon buckets with Gamma-Seal screw-top lids for most of it, and various rechargeable dessicants and a filament dryer. 

Spent some time this morning on my remaining filament on spool scale program design. This convenient OpenSCAD program designs scales for measuring the filament on a spool. Inputs are 4 spool measurements, the program does the rest. Very convenient to quickly estimate the remaining filament on a spool and compare with the slicer's filament estimate to see if there is enough for the next print job. The 10.8m and 32g numbers are the amount of filament in one layer at the core of the spool, so when you get really low you can use that to help estimate what's left. Spools have different dimensions, so I make one of these scales for each type of spool, so I have a small collection of these for the filament spools I use.


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 6, 2022)

I finally it my config file set up so that the neipixel LEDs in my stealthburner switch colors to indicate what the printer is doing.  It took some work, Google, and a new acct and some posts at teamfdm.com.

Now it turns different colors when homing, leveling and printing.   I still have a ways to go figuring out the config and macros.  

I'll have to do the same for the chamber lighting, later, when Amazon drops off the LEDs.


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 7, 2022)

I'm trying out Prusa Slicer today.  I sliced some enclosure neopixel strip housings.

So far, Prusa Slicer seems a little more well integrated with the Klipper firmware.  I'm liking it's interface a little better than Cura too.  It's closer to what im accustomed to after using Flashprint for years.

It even populates a little preview in the Mainsail dashboard.  That didn't happen running Cura gcode.







I printed these parts using Cura.  Now i'm going to run them using PrusaSlicer for a performance comparison.


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## AlanB (Dec 7, 2022)

Some Klipper folks like Super Slicer which is a variant of Prusa Slicer but with more knobs. It is a bit behind Prusa Slicer in features, most development is on Prusa Slicer so it gets features first.


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## Ken226 (Dec 7, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Some Klipper folks like Super Slicer which is a variant of Prusa Slicer but with more knobs. It is a bit behind Prusa Slicer in features, most development is on Prusa Slicer so it gets features first.



The print I was running that was sliced with Prusa Slicer just crashed my extruder into the X endstop.  It finished the top layer of the raft,  the ran into the X endstop at travel speed (about 300mm/s).

I'm looking through the Gcode trying to figure out where, why and how but i'm not seeing it.

I can't find the problem in Prusa Slicer, so i have no idea what to change.  I guess i'm back to using Cura.

I tried to upload the gcode file, but the forum won't let me.


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## AlanB (Dec 7, 2022)

Ouch. I would not expect any gcode to be able to move beyond safe limits, so the implication is that the limits are not set? Probably a good question to take to the Voron Discord, they are very helpful.


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## AlanB (Dec 7, 2022)

There are settings in Prusa Slicer under printer settings for machine limits as well as g codes at various points in the print process, such as between layers.


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## pdentrem (Dec 7, 2022)

Maybe it lost home thus crashed? Limits have to be entered some how.
Pierre


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## Ken226 (Dec 7, 2022)

AlanB said:


> There are settings in Prusa Slicer under printer settings for machine limits as well as g codes at various points in the print process, such as between layers.



In Prusa Slicer, the limits, build plate size, etc for the pre-configured Voron profile are locked for editing.  The wizard allows to you select the Voron version and size when setting the profile, but not edit the parameters within the profile.  At least, if there is I havn't figured out how to do it yet.

I assume that the limits are in those locked settings as well, since I can't find them anywhere that's accessable.


The build plate size/shape is the closest thing I could find to limits, but its all set correctly.








There is a "limits" tab, but it contains speeds and acceleration rates.  Nothing to do with X, Y travel limits.


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## AlanB (Dec 7, 2022)

If you click on the lock next to a value you can unlock it. Make sure the Expert level has been selected so everything is visible. Nothing should be hidden at that point. I doubt Prusa Slicer will send the printer anything outside the slicer set limits unless it is explicit in one of the gcode sections. I would think the "real" travel limits would be set in Klipper and neither Prusa Slicer nor gcode would be able to override Klipper limits.


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## Ken226 (Dec 7, 2022)

AlanB said:


> If you click on the lock next to a value you can unlock it. Make sure the Expert level has been selected so everything is visible. Nothing should be hidden at that point. I doubt Prusa Slicer will send the printer anything outside the slicer set limits unless it is explicit in one of the gcode sections. I would think the "real" travel limits would be set in Klipper and neither Prusa Slicer nor gcode would be able to override Klipper limits.



I have "expert" selected, and am able to access all of the settings.

But, everything appears to be correct.

I resliced the model with Cura, and it seems to be running great.  It's halfway done and no hiccups yet.

I have no idea what the problem was, but i'll be using Cura until or unless I figure it out.

Everything in Klipper, Cura, PrusaSlicer sets limits in the positive direction.   So, with the origin in the front left corner @0,0  the end stops are positioned and x300 and y300.   To crash, something sent the X to a value above 300, yet there didn't appear to be any commands for X > 300 in the gcode.

My best guess is that either @pdentrem is right and it lost home somehow,  or a glitch of some sort resulted in an absolute command being mistaken for incremental, or vice versa.

Klipper doesn't appear to use end stops as limit switches the same way that a cnc mill does.  On my mill, when a switch is triggered, everything locks down immediately, full-stop.


It's possible that one of PrusaSlicers default accel or speed values is too high and a stepper missed steps trying to keep up, causing it to lose home.  I'll have to look at the speed/accel settings in PrusaSlicer and compare them to Cura.  It's running perfectly on Cura code.


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## AlanB (Dec 7, 2022)

You probably checked all this already. Just reviewing the docs in case something was missed. I'm also learning Klipper, I'll be doing similar things very soon.

I'm focusing on how Klipper commanded the motor to hit an endstop at speed. I'm not convinced that missed steps is likely, but that is a reasonable possibility. Usually it is something more fundamental. Once the hardware is protected then taking risks with various software is more reasonable. The underlying hardware settings should be correct first. The Klipper accelerations and velocities can be reduced to insure there are no missed steps. Perhaps cut them to some fraction of defaults just to rule that out. Cura and Prusa Slicer settings should not override Klipper settings.

Scale of X and Y motions precisely correct?

X and Y axis settings:

Position min?
Position endstop?
Position max?

Microsteps?
Rotation Distance? Pulley circumference?
Full steps per rotation? (0.9:400 or 1.8 :200 A/B steppers?)
Gear ratio? (probably should be undefined?)

Multiple config files with different values overriding the proper ones?
Desired values set but commented out? Or set in a file that is not being referenced/read by Klipper?

Other ideas??


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## Ken226 (Dec 7, 2022)

AlanB said:


> You probably checked all this already. Just reviewing the docs in case something was missed. I'm also learning Klipper, I'll be doing similar things very soon.
> 
> I'm focusing on how Klipper commanded the motor to hit an endstop at speed. I'm not convinced that missed steps is likely, but that is a reasonable possibility. Usually it is something more fundamental. Once the hardware is protected then taking risks with various software is more reasonable. The underlying hardware settings should be correct first. The Klipper accelerations and velocities can be reduced to insure there are no missed steps. Perhaps cut them to some fraction of defaults just to rule that out. Cura and Prusa Slicer settings should not override Klipper settings.
> 
> ...



So, yes I went through and checked all that,   the min/max positions, endstop locations are right.  My Voron test cubes were dimensionally correct to about .04mm.


I certainly appreciate the effort you've put into helping, but I think I've figured it out, and --maybe-- fixed it. 

 I think the X/Y belts were too tight, causing missed steps.   Testing the theory now.


I came to that conclusion by comparing the Cura code to the PrusaSlicer code.   The only major difference was that Cura was ALOT more conservative with the g00 rapid travel while not extruding.   Like, Cura was travelling at 200 mm/s and PrusaSlicer at 300mm/s.

So, I started jogging the carriage around at 300mm/s and it started occasionally missing steps.   I kept reducing the jog speed untill it stopped missing steps, which occurred at about 220  mm/s.

It's supposed to be able to handle 300, so I started checking everything I could think of.  

I downloaded a different audio  spectrometer app and started plucking the belts like guitar strings.  It showed 200hz.    I backed off the X/Y belt tension untill it showed 140,  the  spent about 15 minutes jogging it around at 300mm/s.    No more missed steps.

I'm running the PrusaSlicer code now, to see what happens.


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## AlanB (Dec 7, 2022)

Good detective work. Glad you are finding the issue. Those belt tensions did seem higher than I expected.







I installed the lighting in the Repbox and put it on the shelf. The room lighting needs work, the Repbox LED lighting is very bright at night. Might be better with something different there, light the filament more and the acrylic less perhaps. Still waiting for the bowden tubing for the filament. Watching the Relative Humidity go down in the box. The research I've done on RH says that less than about 35% is fine, it doesn't have to be near zero. It's around 50% in the house so it doesn't take a lot to be good enough, it's already down to 32% and it hasn't been closed up very long.  I have four of the little aluminum dessicant tins in there now. There isn't a lot of room for them, so I'm thinking about 3d printing some dessicant bottles that will fit inside the spool cores. Each time I take a spool out I can check the indicators in the beads, or anytime the overall RH seems to be higher than expected. Perhaps print them with clear PETG so they can be seen easily, and so they will stand up to the recharging process. Or just pour the beads onto a tray and spare the container that stress.

The support from Repkord has been excellent. Above and beyond. The box is well designed and sturdy.

Edit - after a couple of hours it is down to 27%. However these gauges are not very accurate, and I've heard they don't work well at really low values. Measuring RH accurately is not easy, but we're not that concerned.

Edit 2 - 22% early this morning. Clear PETG on order.


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## WobblyHand (Dec 8, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Good detective work. Glad you are finding the issue. Those belt tensions did seem higher than I expected.
> 
> 
> View attachment 429223
> ...


Funny you should mention that RH meters aren't accurate down low.  I have two humidity temperature meters.  They measure a minimum humidity of 20% and 13%.  I tried making one from an I2C sensor and a low power Arduino.  It reads -6%!  Reading the IC spec says that is possible.  So accurate RH sensing isn't easy and one should expect to read to 18-20% but most sensors bottom out near there.  I clamped the Arduino output to 0, but have no idea what the real relative humidity is.  Oh, the temperature of the Arduino sensor is elevated due to the heat generated by the Arduino chip, about 4F higher than expected.


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## MikeWi (Dec 8, 2022)

Klipper handles limit switches, but it can also do sensorless homing if you're using TMC2309 stepper drivers.


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## AlanB (Dec 8, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Funny you should mention that RH meters aren't accurate down low.  I have two humidity temperature meters.  They measure a minimum humidity of 20% and 13%.  I tried making one from an I2C sensor and a low power Arduino.  It reads -6%!  Reading the IC spec says that is possible.  So accurate RH sensing isn't easy and one should expect to read to 18-20% but most sensors bottom out near there.  I clamped the Arduino output to 0, but have no idea what the real relative humidity is.  Oh, the temperature of the Arduino sensor is elevated due to the heat generated by the Arduino chip, about 4F higher than expected.



I see that the "type" of budget temperature/RH readout used in the Repbox can be purchased from Amazon in a four pack for well under $20, so not surprising they aren't the best (I am not saying this is the exact model they use, it might be they use a higher quality unit). I have a handheld RH meter that seems to work but the calibration and accuracy of all these devices is quite suspect, it never seems to read very low, but since it times out it is hard to get a dry box reading. I may have to try something with a better sensor as you did. I do have some 13X molecular sieve for the high pressure air compressor that can dry to a lower RH but it is quite difficult to re-activate. It might be useful for some testing, but silica gel beads should be good enough for filament environment drying. Perhaps these inexpensive gauges can be mounted in a gamma seal to make checking the status of the dessicant inside easier to do. That's probably the primary utility they provide - a way to tell if the dessicant needs to be changed without opening the container and introducing more moist air.


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## AlanB (Dec 8, 2022)

MikeWi said:


> Klipper handles limit switches, but it can also do sensorless homing if you're using TMC2309 stepper drivers.


It seems like terminology is pretty loose on the 3D printing firmware. We have homing switches (or sensorless homing), not really limit switches on most of these printers. I haven't seen real limit switches on a 3D printer.


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## MikeWi (Dec 8, 2022)

A limit switch used for homing an axis would be a physical switch like a microswitch or an optical switch. Sensorless homing uses a stall detection ability in the driver to detect when the axis is at the end of its travel.


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## AlanB (Dec 8, 2022)

MikeWi said:


> A limit switch used for homing an axis would be a physical switch like a microswitch or an optical switch. Sensorless homing uses a stall detection ability in the driver to detect when the axis is at the end of its travel.


Since the firmware is set up to allow motion beyond the switch (depending on the value of "position endstop"), it would seem that it is not exactly a real "limit" switch, and is used only as a homing switch and ignored at other times. Also, when hit, the switch doesn't shut down motion at a very low level, perhaps even hardware level, as limit switches generally do. 3D printers generally use soft limits rather than hard limit switches. With the absence of cutting forces this is generally adequate and lowers the cost and complexity of the machine.


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## AlanB (Dec 8, 2022)

The PTFE tubing arrived, so just made the first print from the Repbox. There's a bit more friction on the spool from the support "rollers" which don't really roll, so the spool slips on the edges against the PETG. There are other options but in most cases the number of reels the box can hold is reduced. The print came out fine, so for the moment I'll go with it stock. But I'll look and think about better solutions that will still allow six reels and handle at least some of the wider spools.


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## Ken226 (Dec 8, 2022)

Perhaps the missing steps above 250ish mm/s is an acceleration issue, rather than a speed issue.
An ion engine with a few ounces of thrust can push a probe to 80,000 km per hour,  but it takes a long time.  I'm gonna try jogging it around at 300mm/s at lower accel rates.   Any thoughts?


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## AlanB (Dec 8, 2022)

Have you set up the accelerometer and run input shaping? That should scope it out. Might be some resonances that it needs to avoid. Sometimes there's a cracked part or loose joint that causes problems.


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## Ken226 (Dec 8, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Have you set up the accelerometer and run input shaping? That should scope it out. Might be some resonances that it needs to avoid. Sometimes there's a cracked part or loose joint that causes problems.



No  my kit didn't come with an accelerometer.  It's on my short list.

Reducing the accel to 2000mm/s seems to have done the trick..   visually, I can't tell the difference in the reduced accel rate, but no missed steps after 10 minutes of jogging it around.


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## AlanB (Dec 8, 2022)

Excellent experiment. Seems like something is not quite right, but you have a workaround.

Have you looked at Ellis's tuning document?  https://ellis3dp.com/Print-Tuning-Guide/


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## Ken226 (Dec 8, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Excellent experiment. Seems like something is not quite right, but you have a workaround.
> 
> Have you looked at Ellis's tuning document?  https://ellis3dp.com/Print-Tuning-Guide/



No.  Some of those steps I did, as they were in the Voron startup guide,  but some weren't.

That'll give me something to do on my next days off.


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## AlanB (Dec 9, 2022)

The accelerometers (for input shaping) are inexpensive. The process collects some impressive data.

Also Nero recommends don't use stealth-chop mode, it is more prone to step loss. Use spread-cycle instead. Mentioning just in case.


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## Ken226 (Dec 9, 2022)

AlanB said:


> The accelerometers (for input shaping) are inexpensive. The process collects some impressive data.
> 
> Also Nero recommends don't use stealth-chop mode, it is more prone to step loss. Use spread-cycle instead. Mentioning just in case.



Ok, that's good info to know.

Klippers setup info says:

"It is recommended to always use "spreadCycle" mode (by not specifying stealthchop_threshold) or to always use "stealthChop" mode (by setting stealthchop_threshold to 999999)."

I looked at my config file, (obtained from the Voron resources page),  and currently my steppers are set "stealthchop_threshold=0"



I'm not sure what "stealthchop_threshold=0" means,  since the Klipper documentation doesn't indicate that as one of the options.  Or, perhaps they consider stealthchop_threshold=0 to be "not specifying a stealthchop threshold".  That seems inconsistent though,  since z steppper 0 certainly counts as a stepper motor, I have a fan plugged into fan header zero, a heater plugged into heater header zero, etc.

When I get home from work this evening, I'll change that value by deleting the "stealthchop_threshold=0" line,  and see what happens.


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## AlanB (Dec 9, 2022)

From discussions on the V0.1 github it looks like setting it to zero does turn it off. Some people do use stealthchop but the consensus seems to be that it is more likely to lose steps.


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## Ken226 (Dec 9, 2022)

AlanB said:


> From discussions on the V0.1 github it looks like setting it to zero does turn it off. Some people do use stealthchop but the consensus seems to be that it is more likely to lose steps.


Ok.   I'll leave it be then.


I finished printing a set of 6 ws2812b neopixel strip holders.  The code was generated with PrusaSlicer,  ran overnight on the Voron (a 9 hour print). 

It ran flawlessly. 

Too bad I decided they don't quite look right in red.    I  gonna toss em and reprint in black.

Each needs two m3x8 socket head cap screws and two m3 t slot nuts.

My model, uploaded to Printables:










They are 6-3/8" long, so two will fit on each side of the 300mm Voron.





__





						Printables
					






					www.printables.com


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## WobblyHand (Dec 9, 2022)

I don't want to divert from this thread, as I am finding these builds fascinating.  How did you learn about this stuff?  How did you get the background to be able to do this?  I find the info on accelerometers and resonant frequency pretty cool.  But I don't know "authoritative sources" where to start to learn about this.  Where's the mother lode?


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## AlanB (Dec 9, 2022)

I haven't dug into the papers on "input shaping" myself, though we did the same thing in advanced control systems long ago (basically tailor motions to avoid energizing system resonances), it's from engineering and math control theory. The Klipper software documentation would be one place to look, they probably have references to the papers. One doesn't need a deep background to build and use 3D printers, though optimizing designs for 3D printing has it's own bag of tricks. For me the journey started with wanting to make a particular part that was well suited to 3D printing, getting a printer and following a number of utube channels on the subject. At this point I find the 3D printer to be the best tool I ever bought (though I enjoy the lathe and mill too), it makes many useful items, tools and organizational aids. The 3D printer is much more automated than a CNC router or mill due to having it's own built-in material feed system. My own background is in electronics and software engineering, control systems, computers and networking, so the mechanical design part is new for me. Always fun to learn new stuff.


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## AlanB (Dec 11, 2022)

I printed some perforated desiccant containers designed to fit in spool centers. I chose the shorter bottle and the perforated lid (not the lid with an RH meter). I measured 50g of indicator silica gel capacity in these. I printed them from clear PETG. Adding these to the cores of the spools in the Repbox brought the relative humidity down a bit lower than before, indicating 20%, but the main reason I did this was to increase desiccant capacity in the box. Now we have four 40g tins plus six 50g core bottles with desiccant in the Repbox. As I type this the RH went from about 24 after I opened the box and put the core bottles in, now dropping to 15% which is lower than I've seen it before.  We've tripled the desiccant with this addition, and these are not in the way. The flat desiccant tins are harder to position, a full spool doesn't have room under it for a tin, so they are placed under less full spools. Eventually I may use the tins elsewhere and just use the in-core bottles in the Repbox. The tins also have much smaller airflow conductance than these 3d printed bottles. The bottles use an interesting weave design to make openings without stopping and starting the filament flow, so they print much faster than other designs.







Download files here: https://www.printables.com/model/67857-fast-print-in-spool-desiccant-silica-gel-container

One problem I had was this Polymaker filament comes on cardboard spools, and there was too much friction to feed it from the Repbox. So I'll have to make a better setup with bearings for feeding filament from the box. I'm working on a design for that.

On the Voron front, I've made a little progress with wiring and wire management. Have not spent much time on it lately.


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## Ken226 (Dec 11, 2022)

A


AlanB said:


> I printed some perforated desiccant containers designed to fit in spool centers. I chose the shorter bottle and the perforated lid (not the lid with an RH meter). I measured 50g of indicator silica gel capacity in these. I printed them from clear PETG. Adding these to the cores of the spools in the Repbox brought the relative humidity down a bit lower than before, indicating 20%, but the main reason I did this was to increase desiccant capacity in the box. Now we have four 40g tins plus six 50g core bottles with desiccant in the Repbox. As I type this the RH went from about 24 after I opened the box and put the core bottles in, now dropping to 15% which is lower than I've seen it before.  We've tripled the desiccant with this addition, and these are not in the way. The flat desiccant tins are harder to position, a full spool doesn't have room under it for a tin, so they are placed under less full spools. Eventually I may use the tins elsewhere and just use the in-core bottles in the Repbox. The tins also have much smaller airflow conductance than these 3d printed bottles. The bottles use an interesting weave design to make openings without stopping and starting the filament flow, so they print much faster than other designs.
> 
> View attachment 429603
> 
> ...


 Good looking bottles.  I just ordered a roll of clear ABS so I can print some diffusers for my light mounts.

I haven't used PETG much.  I need to try some.  

I've always had such good results with ABS that I've been too lazy to stray off the beaten path.  I think I've used maybe, 2 rolls of PETG in the las 5 years.


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## AlanB (Dec 11, 2022)

I haven't tried ABS yet. My printer is in my spare bedroom office, so I only print PLA, TPU and PETG there. I'll probably set up a Voron in the garage for ABS/ASA where the fumes won't be in the house.

Wow, this RH has really dropped now to 10%. Just shows how poor those tin containers are at diffusion. I don't assume the meter is accurate, but I didn't know it would even read that low before this.


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## AlanB (Dec 11, 2022)

Perhaps the Nevermore active carbon filter will solve the fume issues, I will have to try that as well.


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## Ken226 (Dec 11, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Perhaps the Nevermore active carbon filter will solve the fume issues, I will have to try that as well.



I've  ever noticed any fumes.  

There's just enough of a smell that I can tell something is printing,  but only barely more noticeable than PLA.


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## AlanB (Dec 11, 2022)

The Prusa is not enclosed, to get good quality ABS/ASA the recommendations are for 50C in the print volume. So it would have to be enclosed to get quality ABS prints (at least for parts of any size), so I've read and heard from many sources. The Prusa has many PETG parts which can barely handle 50C, but it is marginal and if it gets much higher the PETG will creep and fail, even at 50 I wonder if it will shorten it's life. So it's not the best printer to enclose. The Voron is made with ABS/ASA so it can easily handle 50-60C, and is designed and tested for that, and includes the enclosure and has options for filtering so it is a natural choice for ABS/ASA. 

Styrene is pretty bad stuff, the wife doesn't want it in the house. If you can smell it it's probably not a good thing. So I've not tried it.

Some say the ABS odor varies a lot with the brand, and if the printer is closed up tight and not opened until it has cooled most of the volatile components have condensed on the printer surfaces. So there are a lot of variables including the size of the room and air motion in the environment. It also depends on printing temperatures.

Some people have major problems with PLA so it seems to vary a lot with the individual. I only notice the "french toast" smell of PLA within a foot or two of the printer, and I stay out of that region. A lot of the printing occurs when I'm not in the room at all. PETG seems even less odorous, though I haven't printed as much of it. In general I don't want to smell any of it more than very briefly just to be cautious. There's not much reason to and the health risk data is sketchy at this point.

My first spool of Carbon Fiber filament arrived today. CF-PETG. The Repbox people use it and are very fond of it. Their 3D printed parts were very thin yet strong so I figured it would be good to have some on hand. I don't have a project for it yet..


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## Ken226 (Dec 11, 2022)

If you and/or @7milesup are interested in some more advanced options for the Stealthburner led's and case lighting,  read through the last page or two of this thread.











						Stealthburner beta(0) macros
					






					www.teamfdm.com
				




I had a bit of a fight getting the LED effects plugin working with Klipper,  but it's all running now.  Some pretty neat lighting status effects with the plugin.  And I only have the Stealthburner lights installed.  Still waiting on Amazon for the neopixels that are going in the case.

I'm gonna have this thing looking like that box Mr. Spock got irradiated in.


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## Ken226 (Dec 12, 2022)

I found my missing steps issue!


My missing steps problem came back yesterday, so I turned the speeds down further.

Then halfway through an 4 hour print, the issue returned again.  I decided to start taking it apart, as I had no intentions of reducing speeds any further.

While pulling belts to check the pulleys, I was moving the toolhead around by hand and noticed a crunchy sound.  From the right side gantry Y linear rail.

After I got te rail off, sliding the shuttle felt like it was full of broken glass.  So, i set it across a salad bowl and gently eased the shuttle off the end, and could immediately see two balls weren't in the shuttle.  They were just resting in the dovetail, under the shuttle.

Now, I never took the shuttle off when I received the kit and built printer.  When I got the rails out of the box i immediately taped the shuttle in place, and proceeded to grease and assemble.  I even left the rubber screwhole plug/stoppers that prevent the shuttles from sliding off the ends, in place.  I never had these things apart.

Lesson learned.  Don't assume they're good-2-go without checking.  So, check your linear bearings really good.  

 After 10 minutes of figuring out which side needed the balls the most, i got them back in-place, regreased and assembled the rail.  It's smooth as butter now.

As soon as I get this thing reassembled, ill be cranking the speeds back up to full-blast!


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## AlanB (Dec 12, 2022)

Great that you found that. Not too hard to fix, aside from quite a bit of disassembly.

I lubed the rails here with spray lithium grease from the back through a mounting hole into the carriage and moved them back and forth, then wiped off the excess. I left the rubber bumpers in until it was safe to remove them.  They moved well so far.


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## Ken226 (Dec 12, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Great that you found that. Not too hard to fix, aside from quite a bit of disassembly.
> 
> I lubed the rails here with spray lithium grease from the back through a mounting hole into the carriage and moved them back and forth, then wiped off the excess. I left the rubber bumpers in until it was safe to remove them.  They moved well so far.



You know how to set up a webcam on Mainsail?

I got it plugged into the Orange Pi, but mainsail only shows a blank white screen.


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## AlanB (Dec 12, 2022)

I haven't gotten that far. I would do some yewtoob searches, especially on Nero 3D and Steve Builds channels.


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## AlanB (Dec 13, 2022)

This video has some info on printing ABS and VOC exposures. Part of a Nero 3D series on printing ABS.


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## AlanB (Dec 13, 2022)

My package of four RH meters came. I put one into the Repbox and it now reads 10%, same as the mounted one, so they seem to stop at that value but do seem to be able to read down there. Put another one into my filament storage box which has 8 rolls of filament and two Eva Dry 333's, and it reads about 25% They all read about 33-35% out of the box so nothing wildly different to start with.


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## WobblyHand (Dec 13, 2022)

AlanB said:


> My package of four RH meters came. I put one into the Repbox and it now reads 10%, same as the mounted one, so they seem to stop at that value but do seem to be able to read down there. Put another one into my filament storage box which has 8 rolls of filament and two Eva Dry 333's, and it reads about 25% They all read about 33-35% out of the box so nothing wildly different to start with.


All the RH meters at the low end, seem to bottom out at around 10% if you are lucky.  The best thing is to put in enough desiccant.  Not 1 puny gram, but more like 100 gm minimum.  

Your in spool canisters seem like a great idea.  Beats me how to print that material though.  For now, I am using cachet muslin cloth bags.  The kinds of bags that women like to add stinky perfumed stuff to!  I fill the bags until it just fits in the middle of the spool and tie it up.  The bags are pretty cheap, bought 100 of them for about $10 or so.  Think that is cheaper than printing them, although no where nice as the ones you showed.  The muslin breathes well and contains the silica gel.


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## AlanB (Dec 13, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> All the RH meters at the low end, seem to bottom out at around 10% if you are lucky.  The best thing is to put in enough desiccant.  Not 1 puny gram, but more like 100 gm minimum.
> 
> Your in spool canisters seem like a great idea.  Beats me how to print that material though.  For now, I am using cachet muslin cloth bags.  The kinds of bags that women like to add stinky perfumed stuff to!  I fill the bags until it just fits in the middle of the spool and tie it up.  The bags are pretty cheap, bought 100 of them for about $10 or so.  Think that is cheaper than printing them, although no where nice as the ones you showed.  The muslin breathes well and contains the silica gel.



I have some organza bags, used for similar purposes and also inexpensive. Great for dessicant.

Clear PETG is not difficult to print. The biggest problem I've had with PETG is over-adhesion to smooth PEI. It ruined one of my PEI on glass surfaces. Now I always use some Aquanet on the PEI before printing PETG or TPU as they have a tendency to glue permanently to the PEI on random occasions.

These little RH gauges are very handy even if not accurate, they indicate when the desiccant is insufficient or exhausted. When they start drifting up toward the RH of the room you know it is time to refresh. I'll probably put some of these into the 5 gallon bucket gamma seal lids so I can tell when to refresh those.

I was working on the printbed installation and wiring and I noticed the cable chain was too short. LDO included a few extra links but nowhere is there a mention of which chain(s) they are for or to install them. I ended up adding one link to the bed chain, plus earlier I had to turn over one end which was also not instructed. Dancing between Voron instructions, BOM, Sourcing Guide, CAD Model, LDO addendum, wiring guide, printed parts list, and other information is a bit of a mess. I've made it worse by doing a few things in slightly different order, and by not having the right printed parts for the LDO kit. The LDO instructions were first developed for the 2.4 and the Trident is apparently an edit of that, and there are some things that weren't fixed or are missing. The LDO parts are excellent, the instructions are not easy.

One thing I want to do that neither instructions are set up for is to bring things up in stages. Start with AC wiring, bring up the 24V supply with no load, then bring up the Octopus and Pi but with no heaters hooked up. Verify things in stages. I'm still thinking about whether I want to try and print Stealthburner parts on the Prusa or finish this Afterburner which doesn't quite fit the LDO toolhead PCB.

The LDO kit includes some European DIN rail power wiring terminations. They are quite nice. They do use the WAGO connectors under the printbed and those are good also. Some of the wires are too long, some are almost too short. I wonder if they use the same wire lengths for the 2.4.


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 13, 2022)

Ok, I got the cam working.

I pretty much posted this same thing over on TeamFDM.com after they couldn't really help. 

But, in case you, or more likely @7milesup runs into this issue, since he is using an OrangePI too.  Or, anyone else for that matter who happens to be struggling with the OrangePi, Mainsaild and a webcam.








For future reference, since Raspberry Pi's are being scalped for ridiculous prices and Orange Pi's are becoming more common in these type of applications.  In case someday, someone is searching the web  looking for a way to get their webcam set up with an Orange Pi 4 for Mainsail.

First, after multiple attempts to create webcam.txt files, trying to download and install "Crowsnest", sacrificing a live chicken and then beating it against the side of my Voron, I started taking screenshots of everything, and comparing them to each other when the next failure occurred.

So, crowsnest failed to install because the Orange Pi didn't have an FFMpeg,  whatever the f... that is.  So i spent half an hour googling "debian install FFMpeg.  Found a command line script to install it, and ran the script.  That, of course failed, because I neede the following "dependencies".





Geat, so another hour or so google searching each of these things by name, until i found a copy/paste command line to install each.  After I managed to install some of these things, apparently of them was just the right one, and afterwards I got the option to "accept this solution".  I typed Y, hit enter, and it installed a whole bunch of ****.

  I went back and tried the "ffmpeg" install command again.  For the first time, something actually worked.  Oddly, this time It gave me a list of other dependencies that needed to be installed as well.  So, I typed Y and hit enter, again,  and got this:





Naturally, at this point the cam still wasn't working in Mainsail.  So, i went back to the Crowsnest github thing, and copied/pasted the install command into the ssh terminal, and oddly, it worked.  Crowsnest installed this time.

Feeling confident, i rebooted the Orange Pi and opened up Sailboat, and it was working!  No webcam.txt files. No config files.  Just, a webcam image of my assistant, who took care of the sacrificed chicken.





There.  Done!


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 13, 2022)

And, I made a mount for my Logitech C270 Webcam.  Mounts front, top center.















						Printables
					






					www.printables.com


----------



## AlanB (Dec 14, 2022)

I put two of the Amazon RH meters into the Repbox, one into the storage box and one into a single reel printdry clear container. All the units in the Repbox read 10%, as does the unit in the single reel box (which is sitting on the dessicant bottle in the PETG reel core). The one in the 8 reel storage box reads 24%. The documentation indicates they read humidity every 10 seconds, and the accuracy is quoted as plus or minus 5%  and the readout range is 10 to 99%.  They use a single LR44 cell and have a pushbutton to change the temperature readout between C and F. They each came with a spare cell. Does anyone know how long the battery lasts? They didn't bother to ship with the pre-installed battery disabled so they must last a good while.


----------



## AlanB (Dec 14, 2022)

This is getting a bit off the Voron track, but I'm using the RH meters to test some "recharged" and some "new" silica gel desiccant, and it seems to indicate that neither is reducing the RH. Perhaps they are no longer active. I did the recharge some time back at fairly low temperature, and either the activation was inadequate or the storage, or perhaps a bit of both. It is good to have a way of actually checking on this. I also went through my pile of desiccant packs saved from packaging. I opened a few to see what was in them. Many are not silica gel (about 20%). Some appear to be very low grade Zeolite, others very fragmented silica gel. Some are carbon. some are who knows what powder. I'm separating out the silica gel because those we can probably reactivate while others may require different incompatible activation processes and are probably not worth spending time on. Having the meters is the only way to tell what is actually effective. Tennis ball cans or thick ziplock bags are good containers to do testing in. It is easy to peel the labels off tennis ball cans, and they are well sealed. Ziplock bags are more permeable so they don't protect against moisture long term, but for a quick test they should be ok. I have a pack of new silica gel packs from amazon that came in a heavy zip lock that is not registering RH reduction, so the packaging limits the activity lifetime of the silica gel and this stuff is apparently no longer active.

I see the 8 reel storage box with two Eva dry 333's has dropped to 21% RH. Each Eva Dry 333 has about 330 grams of indicating Silica Gel, and a 20 watt heater. So when they change color you plug them in overnight and reactivate them. Very convenient. I have been using those for my filament storage, both in the rectangular sealed 30L Sterilite gasket box that holds 8 spools, and in 5 gallon buckets that have gamma seal lids that hold about 5 spools of filament each.

Keep your powder and filament dry. 

I did more wire management on the Voron. The underside of the build plate looks nicer now. Some of the power and ground wires were just too long so I reterminated them. Those crimped ferrules work very nicely in the Wago connectors.

On the Raspberry Pi news front, the Pi Foundation is releasing 100,000 new Pi's to the retail channels now. They include Pi Zero W, Pi3 as well as 2 and 4 Gigabtye Pi4's. All of these are suitable for Klipper. The 2 Gigabyte Pi4 is what I'm using for the Voron Trident. Even 1/2 Gigabyte of memory is sufficient. The Pi Zero W will run Klipper but won't handle Cameras, Input Shaper or Octoprint. The Pi3's will handle everything so are a good low budget choice. So monitor your local Pi supply and be prepared to react quickly to get a real Pi at MSRP.

I see Pi3a+ at pishop.us right now.


----------



## 7milesup (Dec 15, 2022)

@Ken226 Gee whiz, guys.  For some reason, this forum stops sending me notifications on threads that I am actively involved in.  I have brought this up to the admins, but no luck resolving the issue.  It looks like I need to go back a few pages and catch up.


----------



## 7milesup (Dec 15, 2022)

AlanB said:


> On the Raspberry Pi news front, the Pi Foundation is releasing 100,000 new Pi's to the retail channels now. They include Pi Zero W, Pi3 as well as 2 and 4 Gigabtye Pi4's. All of these are suitable for Klipper. The 2 Gigabyte Pi4 is what I'm using for the Voron Trident. Even 1/2 Gigabyte of memory is sufficient. The Pi Zero W will run Klipper but won't handle Cameras, Input Shaper or Octoprint. The Pi3's will handle everything so are a good low budget choice. So monitor your local Pi supply and be prepared to react quickly to get a real Pi at MSRP.
> 
> I see Pi3a+ at pishop.us right now.


Frankly, trying to track down a Rpi is a joke.  Getting one at MSRP is non-existent and a complete waste of time.  I have a real Pi, it is just orange flavored.


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## Ken226 (Dec 15, 2022)

7milesup said:


> Frankly, trying to track down a Rpi is a joke.  Getting one at MSRP is non-existent and a complete waste of time.  I have a real Pi, it is just orange flavored.



The only thing I havn't been able to get working on my Orange Pi 4lts is the touchscreen.  At this point, the web interface is working well enough that I don't care about the touchscreen any more.

I've since done some digging on routers for one with lots of range. This unit had lots of reviews indicating some very impressive range, and I scored a refurbished one for 130$ on Amazon.:









						Asus RT-AX82U review: Next-gen Wi-Fi performance for less
					

The RT-AX82U steps out of its sibling’s shadow to offer superb performance levels for the price




					www.expertreviews.co.uk
				




So, if all goes well  it will replace my 1999 era Linksys 802.11b router for the Voron/shop use.  I'm hoping it has enough juice that I can still connect to it with the Voron out in the shop,  from a laptop in the house.  About 50ft and through 2 interior and 2 insulated exterior walls.

I'll find it in a few days, once Amazon gets it to my door.


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## Ken226 (Dec 15, 2022)

I decided to add the toolhead PCB,  to clean up my aliminum cw1 extruder and Stealthburner combo.  

The problem is, the Afterburner PCB that fits the CW1 doesn't have the LED connectors for the Stealthburner.  The Stealthburner PCB which has all the right headers,  won't fit the CW1 extruder.

I'm going to try and modify a Stealthburner PCB to fit the CW1, with a custom standoff.

My aluminum extruder already has two m3 holes, so i created a standoff/pcb mount to adapt the Stealthburner PCB to the aliminum CW1.   Here is the standoff, with holes to fit the existing drilled/tapped m3 holes in the CW1 extruder.  The upper right hole will be attached to the extruder with a button head screw, and the lower left with a longer m3 screw that passes through the pcb.   The larger socket in the middle with get a heat set insert, and be the 2nd attach point for the PCB.








Then I'll have to modify the PCB, since the stock Stealthburner PCB has the stepper connector on the backside,  between the motor and the board.  I'll have to move the connector over to the same side as all the other connectors, so that it will clear the CW1.

Here is the modified PCB.  You can see that the top right connector (E stepper) has plenty of room switched over the the front side.  In its stock configuration on the backside, there's no way a plug could ever be connected to it.







In CAD, everything seems to fit in this configuration.  Hopefully, reality matches up to predictions.

Overall, it looks pretty decent:


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## Gaffer (Dec 15, 2022)

7milesup said:


> @Ken226 Gee whiz, guys.  For some reason, this forum stops sending me notifications on threads that I am actively involved in.  I have brought this up to the admins, but no luck resolving the issue.  It looks like I need to go back a few pages and catch up.


I've had the same issues. No resolution.


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## AlanB (Dec 15, 2022)

I just check the alerts periodically as the emails are not 100%, and I have some set up without emails.

I may need to do a similar adapter for the LDO Toolhead PC Board since I'm using the LGX extruder and the hole pattern for the side mount is different. At the moment I have just one screw holding it and it sits too far back. 

I decided to try printing some Stealthburner parts on the MK3. I have a portable enclosure for it that should help at least somewhat with environmental temperatures, though the house is pretty cool these days and the garage is even worse. But so far ABS+ hasn't stuck to the build plate at 100C, even with a thick coating of Aquanet. I may try a textured build plate and readjusting the Z offset. Or just wait and get the Voron working before worrying about printing ABS.

I've managed to buy several Raspberry Pi's for my projects during the shortage at list price from US distributors including Adafruit and Pishop. It just required a little effort to learn how and some time to make it happen. Several batches of them have been available today at Adafruit and some European sites. I haven't purchased from Europe but it is possible, of course shipping costs are higher. Each vendor has their own road bumps to reduce sales to bots so there are extra steps ahead of availability that need to be done in preparation. The Pi Foundation indicates that by the middle of 2023 they should be ahead of this problem.


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## WobblyHand (Dec 15, 2022)

I signed up for a RPI4 2GB many months ago, but have not received any emails about it.  I have received in stock notification about other non-RPI stuff though.  Probably just way down on the list, like #8492 in a list of size 8493.  

I'm using an RPI3B+ for Octopi.  Fortunately I had one in my stash to use.  It works, but the video stream lags quite a bit at times.  The RPI4 is a big step up from a 3 in my opinion.


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## AlanB (Dec 15, 2022)

If you are talking about Adafruit you have to do some other things to be allowed to purchase Pi's. Two factor authentication must be enabled, and whatever else they want done, they are trying hard to reduce bots. The email may take too long and they may not notify the whole list, and they may skip those not eligible, watching rpilocator, twitter or telegram is quicker. I bought a couple from Adafruit before they rejected my next Pi order and told me that one period was the limit. It's probably the best place to get one from. 

Octoprint is much heavier load than Klipper.


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## WobblyHand (Dec 15, 2022)

AlanB said:


> If you are talking about Adafruit you have to do some other things to be allowed to purchase Pi's. Two factor authentication must be enabled, and whatever else they want done, they are trying hard to reduce bots. The email may take too long and they may not notify the whole list, and they may skip those not eligible, watching rpilocator, twitter or telegram is quicker. I bought a couple from Adafruit before they rejected my next Pi order and told me that one period was the limit. It's probably the best place to get one from.
> 
> Octoprint is much heavier load than Klipper.


Did the 2FA, have been a long time customer.  rpilocator has been a joke.  There are scalpers there too.
Basically the Foundation is holding up businesses, which is good, but entirely at the expense of hobbyists who really spent the most to build up their business.  It's been tough everywhere.  Anyways, haven't found one yet, despite doing what they asked for.


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## AlanB (Dec 15, 2022)

Rpilocator samples about once per minute, it's the best tool I've found. Better than the emails. I've heard the twitter was better than the Telegram, but I've been successful several times with the Telegram channel which is driven from rpilocator. Product is available only a few minutes, so one has to be prepared. I missed one time because I wasn't fast enough entering a CC number, so I made sure I was quicker the next times. I did get email from Adafruit, but not always in time. Their emails links only work once, so one has to re-register from time to time or after each email. Also a long time Adafruit customer, didn't seem to matter to them. I suspect most of the scalped product comes from the OEM channel, those guys are buying 100's of units, easier for them to sell into scalping market than the singles from the regular retail suppliers.


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## WobblyHand (Dec 15, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Rpilocator samples about once per minute, it's the best tool I've found. Better than the emails. I've heard the twitter was better than the Telegram, but I've been successful several times with the Telegram channel which is driven from rpilocator. Product is available only a few minutes, so one has to be prepared. I missed one time because I wasn't fast enough entering a CC number, so I made sure I was quicker the next times. I did get email from Adafruit, but not always in time. Their emails links only work once, so one has to re-register from time to time or after each email. Also a long time Adafruit customer, didn't seem to matter to them. I suspect most of the scalped product comes from the OEM channel, those guys are buying 100's of units, easier for them to sell into scalping market than the singles from the regular retail suppliers.


I haven't wanted to make the time to sit and wait for manna to drop.  Maybe I'm not hardcore or desperate enough.  The normal channel hasn't worked at all for me.  I don't have time to sit and stare at a screen for this.  Maybe if I was a better programmer, I could scrape the rpilocator screen once a minute, scan for location and part and if there was a match to get an alert.  If I was even more clever, I could then autogen an order and authenticate.  But I don't have that kind of need, nor do I have that kind of time.  I'm pretty busy doing stuff, and rpilocator is well down in the list.  If I find a significantly better alternative, RPI is history for me.


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## AlanB (Dec 15, 2022)

It wasn't that hard and didn't take that much time because vendors have patterns, but whatever. My experience with the Pi alternatives has been more problems and more time wasted so they often end up in the flea market pile. Glad the Orange is working out. I still have a couple of spare Pi's here so I should be able to last. When I find a useful board or module I generally grab a couple for future projects and that has served me well. The other track for Vorons is to get a Manta board and CB-1, or a Mello Fly (or other printer control board) with onboard Pi equivalent. These are pretty popular and supported for Klipper. Since the Manta board is from BTT as is the Octopus so the connectors should be compatible and swapping the boards should be easy, and cheaper than a Scalped Pi. 

Today there have been Pi3 and Pi4's at several US vendors.


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## Ken226 (Dec 15, 2022)

Now that I've done it once on the Orange Pi,  I bet doing it a second or subsequent time will be easier.  Especially since I posted lots of reminders here and on Teamfdm.  At this point, the Raspberry pi shortage is a non-issue for me.

My Orange Pi 4 lts has a 6 core 1.8ghz processor, 4gb of DDR4 memory and  16gb Emmc, for under 100$, and came with an aluminum case and ac power adapter.


on a positive note,  flipping the motor connector and mounting with the custom standoff went as planned.   I'll start rewiring to accommodate the PCB on my next set of days off, early next week.

Unfortunately,  that will mean opening up the cable chains and snipping all my cable ties.  There are probably about a dozen wires that won't be needed.   Maybe creating some space will help cable chains will lay down a bit flatter.


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## WobblyHand (Dec 16, 2022)

I learned something interesting today, I think.  On rpilocator there is a FAQS.  Went there and found this:


> Please note that Adafruit has some strict guidelines on buying Raspberry Pi computers. As their policy page states, they only allow ONE Pi computer, of ANY kind, per customer/location. They do a manual review of orders flagged as repeats and usually cancel orders if you have purchased a Pi computer from them recently.
> 
> "ONE Pi, of ANY kind, per customer" means exactly what it says. They are only allowing one Pi computer per customer for the time being. If you buy a CM4 (or any other Pi computer) one week and then a Pi 4B 4GB (or any other Pi computer) a different week, expect your second order to be canceled. They have not specified a "cool down period" but they mention in their FAQ they will update the guidelines when customers are able to order more Pi computers.


I bought an RPi4 from them in Sept. 2019.  This text above is not on the Adafruit site.  Maybe this is why my attempts to buy another from Adafruit have failed, although I don't think a purchase 3+ years ago is recently...  Heck, that was pre-pandemic, before any supply problems.

It isn't a big deal if this is their rule, but it sure would have been nice to have stated that in plain text on their own website, rather than finding it out from rpilocator.


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## AlanB (Dec 16, 2022)

2019 would not be part of the restriction, as the shortage had not started. Their policy won't prevent you from ordering a Pi if you get there in time, it just means they will cancel the order before they ship. They were fairly clear when my order was canceled that it was one per shortage, and they will define arbitrarily when the shortage is over whenever they choose to. Even their emails were vague on the duration of this period. It would be nice if they would have a more documented clear and simple policy.


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## 7milesup (Dec 16, 2022)

I would rather slog through an alternate solution, such as Opi or similar, than be held hostage by Rpi.  If I wanted to sit by the computer and watch it intently, I would become a day trader.


----------



## Ken226 (Dec 16, 2022)

My previous Logitech C270 mount worked, but i didnt really like how easily it was knocked out of position.  

I added a hole and two spring sockets.   Two 1/8" x 1/2" springs and a M3x8mm grub screw should give a decent fine angle adjustability.

Of course, the top panel would have to be removed from the printer to adjust it.  But, once set it shouldn't need messed with.
















						Printables
					






					www.printables.com


----------



## WobblyHand (Dec 16, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I would rather slog through an alternate solution, such as Opi or similar, than be held hostage by Rpi.  If I wanted to sit by the computer and watch it intently, I would become a day trader.


I'm pretty much at that point.  Honestly, I'm darn lucky I don't _absolutely_ have to have one right now.  Staring at a screen or even being on alert all the time, sounds like more work than I care to do.  The RPi is nice, but not chain me to a desk nice.  If I can't get one when I need it, I'll look into an OPi.


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## AlanB (Dec 16, 2022)

I never sat there waiting for Pi's, I just set up alerts and monitored it when I was already on the computer or nearby, and chose to respond or ignore when the alert came by. I got several Pi's that way. I looked into buying an Orange Pi but it wasn't easy to buy one of those either, and they cost more than I paid for the Pi's. When I looked into details people were having problems with various aspects of the software. I have plenty of projects already so pass. But it is good to see folks taking other boards on and documenting their process which will help others use them. 

Looks like Vilros and Adafruit had Pi's available today for awhile, and there was some foreign availability as well. Availability is definitely better recently.

I hear the Prusa Slicer team is working on a new feature for cutting a model and providing alignment pins for re-assembly after printing. Clearly one can already do that with various CAD tools, but this would probably be a lot more convenient if done well in the slicer. Nice!

Comparing the sizes of the Prusa MK3 in an enclosure (Wham Bam) with the Voron Trident 250 - 23x23x19 inches compared to 16x16x23. The Trident 250 print volume is a little larger than the Prusa, but the Trident's overall enclosed size is much less than the enclosed Prusa. I look forward to a 160mm print volume mini-Trident (Salad Fork) which will be even smaller yet still large enough to print most everything I generally print. That will save some space on my office workbench.


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## WobblyHand (Dec 16, 2022)

I'd like to enclose my Prusa MK3 at some point.  Primarily, since the fumes from printing bother me.  I'm only printing PLA, but I seem to be sensitized to the fumes.  It really bothers my eyes.  They water when printing, and if I am in the room long enough I get headaches.   I'd like to enclose the printer and put in some sort of filtering like activated charcoal and maybe HEPA.  Otherwise I have to relocate the printer elsewhere.


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## AlanB (Dec 16, 2022)

Sounds prudent. I've heard of some people that were quite sensitive to PLA. The Voron folks have a filter and fan module design that uses activated carbon recirculation, the Trident LDO kit included the fans for one. Prusa's MK3 enclosure has an optional filter kit as well. Their enclosure is quite nice and sturdy enough to stack. Other options include lights, a fire extinguisher system, and locking doors. I wonder if Printed Solid has them for sale, they do now have the printers in stock for retail sale.

The enclosure I have is a temporary one from Wham Bam. Good for short term use, but not for sealing and filtering.

Another thing to try might be to move to PETG instead, if that doesn't bother you it might be a better choice.

One caution - the active carbon must NOT be the acid-washed type. Apparently this is common. When folks used that variety in their printer everything rusted overnight.


----------



## WobblyHand (Dec 16, 2022)

AlanB said:


> One caution - the active carbon must NOT be the acid-washed type. Apparently this is common. When folks used that variety in their printer everything rusted overnight.


Very good to know.  Would aquarium grade activated carbon be ok?


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## AlanB (Dec 16, 2022)

I don't know, it pays to be cautious. The Voron Discord would be a good place to ask or search, seems to me that has been discussed.


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## AlanB (Dec 17, 2022)

video about testing active carbon for rusting potential


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## WobblyHand (Dec 17, 2022)

Did you find this video on Discord?  

Personally I find Discord like a teenager on speed, scattered and tough to follow.  Might be my poorer search capabilities, I find there's lots there, but not easy to extract.  Also, coming in cold, without a lot of domain specific knowledge, it's hard to know the good folks from the self appointed talking heads.

So if one doesn't want acid washed activated carbon, what is the right kind?


----------



## AlanB (Dec 17, 2022)

I have a hard time with Discord, but it's getting a little better as I force myself to use it. I did find that on Discord, but I had seen that video and am subscribed to that utuber already.  In this case a search in the Voron discord brought that up.

One tactic is to buy it from a vendor that is on the Voron Discord. Those vendors know what is needed and they get kicked off the Discord vendor area if they don't do the right things, so there is some vetting. I think in any of the Voron Discord channels that bad answers will get respectfully shouted down, there is a strong core of supporters there. Each time I've asked a question I've had supportive helpful quality answers.

Let me do a search now and see what I can find.

Active Carbon for Nevermore Filter
Nevermore Carbon is a good search term
pellets, de dusted, ideally vacuum packed or at least well sealed
Coconut based is said to be better, product should be suited for filtering air/gasses (different from water/liquid filtration)
steam activated (not acid washed) (acid washed causes rust)
Voron Vendors on the Discord: Fabreeko, Kb3D, West3D, DFH among others may have Nevermore Carbon
Voron Vendor Fabreeko is specifically mentioned in the Nevermore github page

EnviroSupply in the US offers various types on Amazon
but some say don't trust anything on Amazon

more on the Nevermore Filter github about sourcing proper carbon








						GitHub - nevermore3d/Nevermore_Micro: Activated Carbon Filters. Bad smells or fumes, or complaints thereof, should not keep you from being a maker!
					

Activated Carbon Filters. Bad smells or fumes, or complaints thereof, should not keep you from being a maker! - GitHub - nevermore3d/Nevermore_Micro: Activated Carbon Filters. Bad smells or fumes, ...




					github.com
				




I suspect avoiding acid washed is the most important thing, and get a type designed for air filtration that is dust free pellets

I plan to start with some from a Vendor that's on Voron Discord, they have websites so you don't have to buy through Discord, but the ones that have a channel in the Vendor area are very Voron aware. I expect that by the time the first batch runs out I'll have more understanding and can procure a product through other channels at a better price.


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## pdentrem (Dec 17, 2022)

Activated carbon has a shelf life. Can be days to just minutes. It is a consumable and this has to by taken into consideration for long term usage. Venting is naturally an issue for users.


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## AlanB (Dec 17, 2022)

pdentrem said:


> Activated carbon has a shelf life. Can be days to just minutes. It is a consumable and this has to by taken into consideration for long term usage. Venting is naturally an issue for users.



So keeping it well sealed may not be enough. Good to know. I've certainly noticed that desiccant has to be reactivated even if not used after a time. Reactivated some desiccant yesterday, now the gauges show 10% RH in those containers. Wonder if there's a practical way to reactivate the carbon and what the best storage is or if it really helps. Might need a vacuum pump yet.


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## pdentrem (Dec 17, 2022)

I suggest track the time that it works for under your normal usage and replace on that schedule. As for renewing there is lots of information available but we throw the air filters, 24” square 2” thick, away monthly in our situation. (3000 cfm ducting system)


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## WobblyHand (Dec 17, 2022)

pdentrem said:


> Activated carbon has a shelf life. Can be days to just minutes. It is a consumable and this has to by taken into consideration for long term usage. Venting is naturally an issue for users.


Does this imply that "good" activated carbon should be sealed in a vacuum to preserve shelf life?  Vacuum = less molecules that get adsorbed. 

Can carbon be rejuvenated under heat and vacuum, or is the only viable option to toss, which seems wasteful these days?


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## pdentrem (Dec 17, 2022)

An example is a typical VOC respirator filter is sealed until needed. Once opened it is a tick tick tick. Depending on the how much air passes through the filter(s), it can be 6 months at maximum or when you start smelling the gas or odour that you are trying to capture. In our case Ammonia and de-greasing solvent aerosols. When the filter is not in use, one can place in a sealed container for later. This will be likely your method to extend the service life of the filter. Does not have to be in a vacuum, just the smallest sized container that it can fit in.


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## AlanB (Dec 17, 2022)

Some have mentioned a useful life of several months to half a year for the Nevermore filter in 3D printing use. Buying modest quantities in vacuum pack might be the way to go.


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## WobblyHand (Dec 17, 2022)

To answer my own question, reactivating carbon is a high energy process and not practical for most companies.  At least according to Wikipedia.  So it doesn't sound feasible for me to do my own reactivation from an economic point of view.

Nevermore filter sounds interesting.  Spent some time on their github site.


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## AlanB (Dec 18, 2022)

pdentrem said:


> An example is a typical VOC respirator filter is sealed until needed. Once opened it is a tick tick tick. Depending on the how much air passes through the filter(s), it can be 6 months at maximum or when you start smelling the gas or odour that you are trying to capture. In our case Ammonia and de-greasing solvent aerosols. When the filter is not in use, one can place in a sealed container for later. This will be likely your method to extend the service life of the filter. Does not have to be in a vacuum, just the smallest sized container that it can fit in.



Some control can be had by adjusting the fans that push air through the Nevermore filter.  When the fans are off there is not much airflow. Some users set the fans to come on at the higher enclosure temperatures only to reduce "usage" of the carbon when not required. Klipper can be programmed to do this automatically.


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## 7milesup (Dec 18, 2022)

I am going to give a shout-out to https://kb-3d.com/store/.  I had some questions about an upgrade I was going to do, and Kris, the owner, answered the phone and literally walked me through what I needed.  He is definitely going to be my go-to choice if he has what I need.  Kris was also very pleasant to talk to.
I bought my hotend from https://west3d.com/ only because Kris does not carry the Phateus line. I had emailed West3D with the same questions I asked Kris, but they never responded, and even after I called West3D and asked them to respond to the questions in my email, they never did.


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## Ken226 (Dec 18, 2022)

Sorry for the wall of text,  but things are hard to condense down.

Another discovery, that could potentially save you guys some time later.

While working on my toolhead pcb, I had the Voron laying on its back with the top panel removed.  Working on it through the top.

I noticed that the gantry was slightly askew, as in, parallelogram shaped, as viewed top down.    I was a little miffed, because when I assembled it I took great care to make sure it was square.

I started prepping to pull the whole gantry apart, and while loosening the belt tension adjusters I noticed the gantry parallelogram changing shape.

It didn't take long to figure out that the gantry is very, very NOT rigid.  It even distorted at belt tension settings well below normal.  Like, below 100hz on my audio spectrometer app and below #1 on those 3d printed tension gauges.

So, I used a 1/4" dowel as a spacer/pivot in the middle, and an indicator on 1"2"3 blocks on each side,  then i adjusted the tension on the 2 gantry belts until the gantry was square with both belts @ about 140'ish hz.

I say "about",  because the  gantry achieved squareness with the belts NOT both at the same amount of tension.   They were close, but not quite even.



After squaring it via belt tension, then putting it back together, my quad gantry leveling probe sample consistency is now phenomenal.

Since putting it back together,  It hasn't had to take more than 3 samples per corner. Not once.   The 3 samples per corner are now hitting to withing .003mm of each other. 



So,  the moral of the story;

 If you loosen the XY axis belts and play with the  cross rail,  you'll see that it clearly has some skew ability.  In exactly the same way that the Z does. The Quad Gantry Level feature  uses this on Z,  to level the gantry.   But, there is no X,Y software skew correction,  so make sure you get the gantry squared, even If one belt is a little tighter than the other.

I suspect that the gantry achieving square with slightly uneven belt tension is due to the tolerance of the rails, straitness, twist, etc, as well as any any error in assembly by me.

But, the proof is in the pudding.   Uneven X,Y belt tension but a square gantry = excellent probing repeatability and quick, first try Quad Gantry Leveling.


You guys may have different results than I did,  but I thought it was worth a mention, just in case.


It brings to mind an interesting possibility.   If it had a Y axis endstop on each side of the gantry,  it should be possible to program an X, Y "squaring up" routine,   similar to and in conjunction with QGL.  Just an add-on to the g32 routine.


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## 7milesup (Dec 18, 2022)

@Ken226  Thank you for discovering this issue and sharing your insights. I just got done building and installing my gantry a couple days ago and I was wondering about its ability to hold squareness. It seemed like it did not take much to move the gantry out of square. I was actually looking at how I could add some rigidity to the corners of the gantry with some machined aluminum pieces.  Obtaining mounting points though that are clear of all the mechanisms might be challenging.


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## Ken226 (Dec 18, 2022)

7milesup said:


> @Ken226  Thank you for discovering this issue and sharing your insights. I just got done building and installing my gantry a couple days ago and I was wondering about its ability to hold squareness. It seemed like it did not take much to move the gantry out of square. I was actually looking at how I could add some rigidity to the corners of the gantry with some machined aluminum pieces.  Obtaining mounting points though that are clear of all the mechanisms might be challenging.




And the gantry frame itself only has two corners, in the back. It's open in the front.

But, the squareness thing wasn't really related to those corners anyway,  it was in the X axis cross rail.     Since each end of the X rail is mounted on  a linear bearing,  each  end of the X rail can move fore/aft a little, independent of the other end.

As you tighten the belts on one side,  it pulls the X cross rail into a skew.  Tighten the opposite belt, and it starts to correct that skew.

 And theoretically, in a perfect world,  if you tightened them to the exact same tension you should have an X cross rail that is  perfectly perpendicular to the Y axis.

But in my case, evenly matched tension didn't quite = a perpendicular x rail.      So,  I decided that a squared up X rail is better,  regardless of how evenly matched the belts tension.   It seems to have really paid-off.

It should have been obvious to me from the beginning of this project.  But, I didnt see it until I had the printer laying on its back, looking in through the top.    I was like, "holy sh**, that thing looks like it melted In the sun!".


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## AlanB (Dec 18, 2022)

Interesting story on the 2.4 Gantry. I have read that it is flexible to allow the quad gantry levelling (tramming) system to work. This is the first I've heard about the XY issues, but it makes sense.

The Trident has a rigid gantry. De-racking XY is still a balance of belt tension and mounting X on the Y rail sliders.


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## 7milesup (Dec 18, 2022)

I did a custom bottom plate out of 0.060" aluminum, then buffed to a near mirror finish. The acrylic panel is fastened to the underside of the aluminum with VHB tape.


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## Ken226 (Dec 18, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I did a custom bottom plate out of 0.040" aluminum, then buffed to a near mirror finish. The acrylic panel is fastened to the underside of the aluminum with VHB tape.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That looks awesome!   Very cool!


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## Ken226 (Dec 19, 2022)

The din line in neopixels uses 5 volts right?   What happens if you accidentally connect the din terminal to a 3v pin?  What about if you connect it accidentally to a  strait 5v pin.    Pretty sure I did both at different points.  Those tiny pins are hard to see,  and the various wire diagrams out there for these things vary, and some suck.

Trying to diagnose my stealthburner  leds.  They are misbehaving after the PCB upgrade.   

The logo works fine, but the nozzle diodes wont come on.  When I first connected it they came on, but in the wrong colors, flickered a little, then a day later the went off and won't come back on.


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## AlanB (Dec 19, 2022)

NeoPixel Problems

I was about to post the below article when the posting came up about neopixel issues.

As I recall 3V data to Neopixels might work but be unreliable, Adafruit notes confirm that.  I would not expect 5V supply to DIN to cause harm to the neopixel, though if there was no supply voltage at the time it might be damaging. Those are small wires and through a difficult mechanical path, I would review for damage or shorts. The source of the data might be damaged if it tried to drive while the DIN was connected to 5V. 


Drying Silica Gel Desiccant

I did an experiment yesterday with a small batch of used silica gel desiccant packs. Generally I reactivate them in a filament dryer at 65C for several hours. I decided to test the often mentioned recipe of using a microwave at 50% power for a few minutes. A lot of moisture was driven off. The packs got warm but not terribly hot. After that they did not seem to work, as measured by one of the inexpensive RH meters. So I tossed them into the filament dryer overnight and tested them again. They seem to work poorly now. I suspect the microwave overheats and damages the small structures in the silica. Even though the recipe is written right on the bulk package, it is damaging to the product. Some sources say that 200C will damage the silica. In a microwave the temperatures are basically uncontrolled. Most recipes indicate 60 to 120C for drying. Some sources mention that the indicator in the silica is damaged at about 150C. 

So 60C for 6-7 hours, or 120C for 1-2 hours is probably the best recipe that I have found, and skip the microwave.

After that I toss them into a tennis ball can and put an RH meter in. It drops to 10% after they cool down. The damaged silica slowly drops to 15% and doesn't go lower. Tennis ball cans seal pretty well and are easy to open. Zip lock bags are pretty permeable to moisture, only the very heavy ones, or the metalized mylar ones are better. Thick screw top bottles with good seals should also work. The digital RH meters are very handy to tell when the silica needs reactivating, and the tennis ball cans have a nice wide mouth so the meter can fit easily. The labels generally peel off easily so the meter can easily be seen without opening the cans.


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## Ken226 (Dec 19, 2022)

AlanB said:


> NeoPixel Problems
> 
> The source of the data might be damaged if it tried to drive while the DIN was connected to 5V



Can you expand a little more on that?

When you say "the source of the data might be damaged".     The source of the data being my LED config file?  Or, the neipixel signal out pin,  pb0, pin on the octopus board?

The stealthburner has 3 diodes.  Led 1 (the logo) is working fine,   diodes 2 and 3 (the nozzle),  aren't working.  Is there a mode of failure in the octopus board that could cause diodes 2 and 3 to have trouble, while 1 is still working?


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## AlanB (Dec 19, 2022)

I haven't looked at that wiring but I expect they are all driven serially from the one Octopus output. Neopixels behave like shift registers, so the data feeds through from the first to the last. What order are they chained in? 

Essentially each Dout is the driver for the next Din. So if there was a temporary short to 5V between two Neopixels that might damage the Dout of the previous LED. It might continue to work but not pass the data on to the LEDs after.


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## WobblyHand (Dec 19, 2022)

Silica gel should be heated to about 105C, give or take.  A toaster oven set to 220F or even 250F is fine.  Leave the gel in the toaster oven for a half hour.  The color changes much faster than that so you need to leave the gel in the oven for the full time to get all the moisture out.  A low temperature bake of 60C is not effective.

As you found out it's possible to ruin silica gel in a microwave.  Basically you can't adequately control the temperature and a lot of it gets overheated and destroys the structure of the gel which is responsible for adsorption.  

I just put mine in a foil lined tin, spread it out thin, set the timer for about 30 minutes and walk away.  Come back after the ding of the bell and leave it there until it cools off.  Then pour into a glass mason jar with a rubber seal.  It stays fresh indefinitely, until you need it.  This has always worked well for me.

For a standard reel size bag, the RH goes to about 10% within 5 minutes, with a spool of filament in it at atmospheric pressure.


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## Ken226 (Dec 19, 2022)

AlanB said:


> I haven't looked at that wiring but I expect they are all driven serially from the one Octopus output. Neopixels behave like shift registers, so the data feeds through from the first to the last. What order are they chained in?
> 
> Essentially each Dout is the driver for the next Din. So if there was a temporary short to 5V between two Neopixels that might damage the Dout of the previous LED. It might continue to work but not pass the data on to the LEDs after.



the first in the chain is pixel 1,  which is behind the Stealthburners logo in the center, front of the printhead.   Chain count 2 is the right nozzle light, and 3 is the left nozzle light.

Pixel 1, first in the chain is working properly.   LED 2, right nozzle,  was working oddly,  the wrong color, flickering between colors for about half a day.    LED 3, left nozzle, was dead the whole time.    As of this morning,  both 2 and 3 are dead.    1, the logo LED, is still running like a champ.


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## Ken226 (Dec 19, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> the first in the chain is pixel 1,  which is behind the Stealthburners logo in the center, front of the printhead.   Chain count 2 is the right nozzle light, and 3 is the left nozzle light.
> 
> Pixel 1, first in the chain is working properly.   LED 2, right nozzle,  was working oddly,  the wrong color, flickering between colors for about half a day.    LED 3, left nozzle, was dead the whole time.    As of this morning,  both 2 and 3 are dead.    1, the logo LED, is still running like a champ.



So, your thinking that the Dout for pixel one is damaged,  which was causing the problems in pixel two and three?  I guess the Dout in 1 died, so 2 and 3 are out?   that makes sense.    

I got another set of lights on the way from Amazon.  At 9$, it's not a big deal.   

I'm just happy to have it running again.  Compared to my Flashforge, the Voron is a beast!  It makes the prettiest ABS parts.


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## Ken226 (Dec 19, 2022)

I finished printing holders and wiring up my case lighting.   The led effects plugin seems to work well for the additional lights connected on the pb6 bl touch pin.


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## AlanB (Dec 19, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Silica gel should be heated to about 105C, give or take.  A toaster oven set to 220F or even 250F is fine.  Leave the gel in the toaster oven for a half hour.  The color changes much faster than that so you need to leave the gel in the oven for the full time to get all the moisture out.  A low temperature bake of 60C is not effective.
> 
> As you found out it's possible to ruin silica gel in a microwave.  Basically you can't adequately control the temperature and a lot of it gets overheated and destroys the structure of the gel which is responsible for adsorption.
> 
> ...









I've been looking for some data on drying Silica Gel. I did find a chart and did some calculations based on that. Higher temperatures are definitely better, but even 60C does dry silica gel so it has about 2/3 of the water capacity compared to 50% RH at room temperature capacity, if I read the graphs correctly.

https://www.sorbentsystems.com/desiccants_charts.html various charts and data

Calculations below are based on water capacity of Silica Gel at 50% RH at room temperature of about 25g/100g. At higher RH the higher moisture capacity would make these percentages even larger, but in my use case the RH is generally in the 50% range so this is a more realistic calculation.

60C 140F would dry to about 8g/100g or 32% removing 68%
65C 150F would dry to about 7g/100g or 28% removing 72%
75C 170F would dry to about 5g/100g or 20% removing 80%
100C 210F would dry to about 2g/100g or 8% removing 92%
120C 250F would dry to about 1g/100g or 4% removing 96%

The only reason I'm interested in drying at such low temperatures is the filament dryer I have will do this so I don't have to mess with the kitchen appliances. But clearly drying at 100C or 120C produces a more effective result and shortens the time required. The time required is variable depending on many factors with 0.5-2 hours recommended at the higher temperatures and 6-7 hours at the lower end (but it also depends on Silica packaging and airflow). The filament dryer recommends 65C in the instructions, based on this research I will probably use the maximum 75C setting next time. The filament dryer has good airflow across the drying area so it may be more effective than the temperature alone indicates. Convection ovens are recommended for similar reasons, and occasionally opening the oven door to allow moist air to escape.

I have definitely dried a no longer effective set of silica gel packets at 65C in this filament dryer for 8 hours or so and they immediately dropped to 10% RH on a meter once they cooled off. These little meters are very handy to tell what is going on, whether desiccant is actually still active or not.

Regarding the silica gel packs that I cooked in the microwave and then dried at 65C overnight, they did eventually drop to 10% but they seem to be much slower than the other packs that were not abused in the microwave. So they still work, but not as well as their peers. I don't plan to use the microwave in the future, at least not for Silica Gel. I might consider trying it for Zeolite molecular sieve since oven drying is at fairly extreme temperatures, though we can see on this chart at 350F one can get down to 5g/100g which is still an 80% effective result. So that is probably safer than the microwave as well. Molecular Sieve is useful for drying High Pressure Air (4500 psi). I wouldn't use it for filament.

In doing this research I looked at many sites recommendations, and they do vary a lot from 60C to 120C. But many of them do include microwaving at medium power for some minutes with some rest periods. I still think it isn't controlled enough for good desiccant life. But it is quick and these folks are happy to sell you more desiccant.

There is one advantage of drying the desiccant less than fully. In museum applications they talk about conditioning the desiccant to produce a stable RH at some level that is most suitable for protecting the items in display cases. Minimum humidity is not the goal, constant humidity at a certain range is. In our case filaments like PLA are actually damaged by cycling humidity. Moisture breaks the polymer bonds and drying the filament does not repair them, but prepares the polymer for more moisture damage on the next cycle of increasing RH. So we want low enough humidity but not a lot of drying. So going for the driest desiccant is not really a priority as long as we have enough desiccant for the drying capacity needed.

The Repkord Repbox folks have a series of videos on utub about filament and drying where they have a guest polymer scientist who goes into some of the details in an understandable fashion.


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## AlanB (Dec 19, 2022)

Pishop.us just got some Raspberry Pi 3 A+ units for sale online. Intersting time to be posting more new units. Wonder how long they'll last.


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## pdentrem (Dec 20, 2022)

What about a Golden Rod? I use these in my gun safe for decades. With the silica gel added may be over kill though.



			https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/golden-rod-gun-safe-dehumidifier


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## AlanB (Dec 20, 2022)

Repkord had a goldenrod option for the Repbox early on, but heating filament to dry it can be hard on the filament as mentioned earlier. At least for PLA it ages the filament and accelerates degradation. In any case they dropped it as an option. Not all types of filament behave the same way in this respect. It depends on how reversible the water-polymer reactions are. Too-dry filament can be bad as well. Some moisture is required. We just don't want to add moisture above that point. Heating the filament can over-dry it. Desiccating the air doesn't dry the filament much.

PLA actually has a shelf life. It depends on many factors, but humidity is part of the issue, and water tends to break up the polymer chains and shorten them, and heating does not reverse this reaction. Not all the water reacts this way, so some water can be driven off by heating, but that which has reacted into the polymer chain is not removable, as I understand it. I bought some PLA in 2014 and went to use it in 2017, but it had become brittle. Drying it sort of helped, but it was still brittle and after a few days would start breaking. Drying cycles accelerate the ageing process. I was able to print some of it, but the remainder broke into short lengths on the spool from the thermal and humidity cycling.


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## pdentrem (Dec 20, 2022)

Interesting info. Thanks
use Nylon and PETG currently.


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## AlanB (Dec 21, 2022)

Printing some PETG here last night as well. Saw this cute kitty self defense keychain fob on a utub channel, found a version on printables.com and showed it to the wife. She wanted 10 of them for Christmas presents for all the young ladies in the family. Add a split ring and done.


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## pdentrem (Dec 21, 2022)

The coworker at work uses a dry box with Silica gel and does use a food dehydrator from Wallyworld. 30 minutes at 60C for PETG and 1 hour at 70C for Nylon.


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## AlanB (Dec 21, 2022)

Sounds like a reasonable plan. I wonder if those times are long enough to do much drying, diffusion is a really slow process, especially deep in the reel. The water near the surface on the outer layers will dry but moisture deep in the filament and especially deep in the reel is much harder to affect.

I keep pretty much all filament dry with silica gel and use a similar dryer (PrintDry Pro). I mostly dry silica gel in it rather than filament these days. I have dried PLA in it, but that didn't really seem to help much. I haven't tried Nylon but have heard it needs drying more than most. I suspect that if most filaments are stored with active silica that they won't need active drying, but nylon may be an exception. In the past the open feed reel on the printer was not protected against humidity here, but now most of the time it feeds from the Repbox so it is protected. One exception is a reel of PETG that I'm working with which has a broken flange, so it can't feed from the Repbox (without a special setup inside). I don't leave it out long, the PrintDry kit included a single reel sealed plastic box that I've been using with silica gel to keep it dry. These single reel boxes are quite nice but probably not inexpensive enough to have many of.

How do folks decide when their PETG needs drying?


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## AlanB (Dec 21, 2022)

Another PETG print that I should have made earlier is very helpful with the Voron build and other project work with Metric bolts. 







from https://www.printables.com/model/208880-rapid-metric-screw-measuring-tool-m2-m5-up-to-50mm

A manual filament change produces the contrasting color on the raised lettering. I printed with PETG but most any filament would do.

There are also hex and round holes on the back to judge nut sizes and to install brass heat-sets in for thread checking.

My Voron kits have had labelled bolt bags, but occasionally there is a wrong size in the bag, or when working on the printer the removed bolts may need to be checked or sorted and this is a convenient tool. Some of the smaller kits have no labelling on the bolts.

Looks like Adafruit had another batch of Raspberry Pi 4's this morning at about 8am Pacific time. These were the 2 GB models, perfect for Klipper.  BerryBase in Germany has some of the 1GB models still available. I'm putting a Pi4 2GB model that I got from Adafruit into the Trident here. Checking Adafruit daily a few minutes after 8am Pacific time may be worthwhile.


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## Ken226 (Dec 22, 2022)

AlanB said:


> A manual filament change produces the contrasting color on the raised lettering. I printed with PETG but most any filament would do.



I used that technique to add a little splash of color to my panel clips and door hinges.


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## 7milesup (Dec 22, 2022)

Ken226 said:


> I used that technique to add a little splash of color to my panel clips and door hinges.


I like that Ken!


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## Ken226 (Dec 22, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I like that Ken!



It's so much easier with the Voron than with my Flashforge.

With the Flashforge I had to pause it,  set the unload cycle and wait for it to retract,   the set the load cycle and wait for it to feed.  And carefully straiten the filament end, so it didn't jam going in.


With the Voron, just pop the lever up,  pull out the filament,   push the new filament in till it starts oozing out the  nozzle, then pop the lever back down.

I'm not sure how much better the CW2 extruder can be,  because my CW1 extruder is great.


I spotted this "Iron Red" ABS on Amazon the other day.   It's a better match for my anodized parts,  so I ordered a roll.   I'm gonna use it to reprint  bright red parts like the Stealthburner, chain anchors, exterior pulley colors, etc.

Paramount 3D ABS (Iron Red) 1.75mm 1kg Filament [IRRL30111815A] https://a.co/d/aQw2WC1


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## AlanB (Dec 22, 2022)

For the "manual filament change" I use the slicer to insert gcode into the sliced file to trigger the change(s) at the appropriate layer, the printer pauses and leads the operator through the change, and then resumes the print. At least with the Prusa Slicer and the MK3 this is easy to set up and works quite nicely.

Now printing some "tennis tossing coins". They have U and D for up and down and are used instead of spinning a racket for determining who chooses first when we play league matches. I designed these coins to fit into a large "O" Ring so they don't damage the court or receive dings on the edges when they are tossed. Two color changes make contrasting colors for the letters viewed from either side. The holes can be used to clip them onto the tennis bag.


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## AlanB (Dec 24, 2022)

I had some trouble with a cardboard spool having too much friction in the Repbox, specifically with the clear PETG from Polymaker. I noticed that Modbot (on utub) mentioned printing a pair of rings to add to the cardboard spools to reduce friction. I printed one from printables.com for 1kg spools, a 200mm diameter ring. It was slightly loose on the Polymaker spool so I made a parametric ring design in OpenSCAD and tried 198mm which was the measured diameter, but it was too small, then 199mm which seems to be a good fit. I'm printing the second ring now. These just barely fit on the MK3 printbed. When I get a pair I can test it in the Repbox and see if this solves the problem with cardboard spools in the Repbox.

I did a quick manual test and it may work. Probably will. Friction seems similar to plastic spool and the rings stayed on during a quick test. Will have to use it awhile to see if friction is low enough and if the rings stay on the flanges.


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## Ken226 (Dec 25, 2022)

AlanB said:


> I had some trouble with a cardboard spool having too much friction in the Repbox, specifically with the clear PETG from Polymaker. I noticed that Modbot (on utub) mentioned printing a pair of rings to add to the cardboard spools to reduce friction. I printed one from printables.com for 1kg spools, a 200mm diameter ring. It was slightly loose on the Polymaker spool so I made a parametric ring design in OpenSCAD and tried 198mm which was the measured diameter, but it was too small, then 199mm which seems to be a good fit. I'm printing the second ring now. These just barely fit on the MK3 printbed. When I get a pair I can test it in the Repbox and see if this solves the problem with cardboard spools in the Repbox.
> 
> I did a quick manual test and it may work. Probably will. Friction seems similar to plastic spool and the rings stayed on during a quick test. Will have to use it awhile to see if friction is low enough and if the rings stay on the flanges.



I noticed that the polymaker spools take a little more force to rotate them on my spool holders, though not nearly as pronounced since the friction is in the middle.   polymaker and Overture are stilly favorites though. I haven't had a roll yet that gave poor results.

I ordered a roll of clear PETG for the logo LED diffuser that's going iny Iron Red Stealthburner.  I got burned on a roll of "clear" ABS that turned out to actually be a very opaque "natural".    I don't guess ABS comes in actual clear.

That is, if the post office ever starts delivering again.   Since the snow and ice that landed a few days ago, they've got about 10 packages of mine waiting in their local office.

Their motto:   "*Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds."  *

I guess expecting to find employees who can drive in snow would be pretty absurd with a generation who can't even operate a manual transmission.

Anyway,   I'm sure the PETG diffuser will hold up fine.   I have a clear PLA diffuser in my Stealthburner now,  and it's holding up fine with about 200 hours on it.




I printed a black stealthburner yesterday,  just to see what it would look like.   I decided I don't like it.


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## 7milesup (Dec 25, 2022)

I like my blue one


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## AlanB (Dec 26, 2022)

The clear PETG is fairly clear, and depending on print settings can be whitish translucent, or fairly clear. I saw a utub video recently on printing PETG clear but I haven't tried any of the tricks. For the stealthburner lens it should be translucent enough anyway.

Nice blue on the SB there. Agree the black isn't the best choice.


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## Ken226 (Dec 26, 2022)

You guys have to recalibrate your Z offset when switching between ABS and PLA?

I've been printing ABS, and yesterday switch to PLA on the Voron.  I had to recalibrate the Z endstop to get the PLA to stick.  Before recalibrating, it was just dragging around a glob.

After printing PLA awhile, I forgot to recalibrate and when i started printing ABS again,  the nozzle was just barely touching the bed, without enough gap for the ABS to leave the nozzle.  I had to recalibrate again.

With my Flashforge, it seemed to use the same offset for a 110c bed as for a 55c bed.  The Voron bed seems to expand up and fill about .2mm going from 55c to 110c.   That seems a little much.

Using the coefficient of thermal expansion for aluminum, it should only expand max, about .002mm for a 55c \



Edit:  I did the calculations using .000023mm per mm per degree times 55c delta temp, and came up with .0101mm of change.  So, yea, I'll have to do a bed mesh, or further loosen 3 of the screws that hold down the bed.  It must be bowing a little when it heats up.  55c shouldn't swell it enough to fill the .2mm gap i have it calibrate for.

I may consider doing a mod to mount the bed the way my flashforge is,  with springs to allow for expansion without bowing.


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## AlanB (Dec 26, 2022)

On my Prusa at ABS temperatures the nozzle appeared to be higher than at PLA temperatures causing adhesion problems. This problem does not occur between PLA and PETG setups, and PETG bed temperatures are nearly as high as ABS. I have not tried to figure it out, just made the observation. Wondering about the belt temperature coefficients and effects on belt tension. Are the Z belts actual high temperature Gates or clones? The Prusa does a bed mesh and temperature compensates the inductive sensor, but perhaps this compensation isn't well calibrated on my Prusa when the enclosure is added. The enclosure was only on for ABS testing.

There are kinematic mounts for the printbed that float the bed without depending on springs. There are also spherical bearings for the 2.4 Gantry.

The new Voron Tap setup measures actual nozzle contact with the bed. This does not work with a spring mounted bed. There has been a lot of testing with Tap and they learned a lot about these issues. The Tap Discord channel might be a good place to learn more and discuss findings.


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## Ken226 (Dec 26, 2022)

the belts are marked "Gates Power grip GT 2LL-2gtrf 22422 sc 12003

Not sure about the temp ratings

Playing with it this morning, im thinking the results yesterday were related to spooging PLA drooling out of the nozzle.  re-calibrating today with a clean nozzle and not seeing any issue.

I'll just have to be careful when switching between filaments.


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## AlanB (Dec 29, 2022)

Well, I pre-checked the 5V from the Octopus, loaded MainsailOS on the SD card, fired up the Pi4-2 on the Trident, did the updates, put in the LDO trident printer config file, uncommented various parts, setup, made and programmed the Octopus with klipper. It seems to be working, but of course it errors out on the hotend thermistor since that's not installed yet. But lots of progress there. The printhead is still sitting on the desk, have some more work on it to do, then install and finalize the remainder of the wiring. Looking good so far!


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## Ken226 (Dec 29, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Well, I pre-checked the 5V from the Octopus, loaded MainsailOS on the SD card, fired up the Pi4-2 on the Trident, did the updates, put in the LDO trident printer config file, uncommented various parts, setup, made and programmed the Octopus with klipper. It seems to be working, but of course it errors out on the hotend thermistor since that's not installed yet. But lots of progress there. The printhead is still sitting on the desk, have some more work on it to do, then install and finalize the remainder of the wiring. Looking good so far!



Are you running Mainsail OS,   or the Mainsail web interface on Raspberry Pi OS?   I'm curious about Mainsail OS.   I've considered buying another Orange PI just to play around with and try some different operating systems.


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## AlanB (Dec 29, 2022)

I've seen Raspberry Pi 4B 2GB models every day or two from various sources including Adafruit had some this morning.

I loaded MailsailOS using Raspberry Pi Imager. It is Raspbian with the various Klipper packages pre-loaded.

I just now plugged in the BTT 4.3 DSI display and it works. It just shows Pi stuff at this point, another thing I could work on is to load the KlipperScreen and get that working.


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## AlanB (Dec 29, 2022)

What a rollercoaster. A few commands, many minutes of automated downloading, building, configuring and installing, and KlipperScreen comes up! And the touchscreen works!! Impressive! No fuss, no muss.


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## AlanB (Dec 30, 2022)

Progress. I temporarily hooked up the printhead cable and put in the jumpers and hotend temperature sensor and now Klipper doesn't error out. I heated the bed and hotend temperature sensor and the proper readout increased. I haven't figured out where the chamber temperature is but it must be on the toolhead PCB. Found it. It looks like a surface mount capacitor, labelled CT near the connectors on the edge of the board away from the main toolhead cable jack, between one of the mounting holes and the connector for the Hot End Fan.


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## AlanB (Dec 30, 2022)

Had a little scare.. Left the Trident on awhile (the heaters are not connected so not much risk) and when I looked over the screen was blank, then white, then cycled through colors, looked like it was broken. Turns out this is apparently a screen saver. Touched it and Klipperscreen came back on. Another feature I had not heard about.

On a separate note, was going through the various menus and saw an error "shutdown due to webhooks". While this isn't a great error message, this is what happens when you hit the estop. This is a prominent icon on the touch screen, hopefully it doesn't get bumped inadvertently during a print. I would like to see a physical estop button on a 3d printer, but something that is easy to bump on a touch screen could be a liability, and not really a sufficient solution for estopping purposes compared to a physical estop switch.

I set up Mainsail to receive files from PrusaSlicer. Works like Octoprint except it doesn't require a special authentication key. Still have some wiring to work on before it will be ready to print...


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## Ken226 (Dec 30, 2022)

AlanB said:


> Had a little scare.. Left the Trident on awhile (the heaters are not connected so not much risk) and when I looked over the screen was blank, then white, then cycled through colors, looked like it was broken. Turns out this is apparently a screen saver. Touched it and Klipperscreen came back on. Another feature I had not heard about.
> 
> On a separate note, was going through the various menus and saw an error "shutdown due to webhooks". While this isn't a great error message, this is what happens when you hit the estop. This is a prominent icon on the touch screen, hopefully it doesn't get bumped inadvertently during a print. I would like to see a physical estop button on a 3d printer, but something that is easy to bump on a touch screen could be a liability, and not really a sufficient solution for estopping purposes compared to a physical estop switch.
> 
> I set up Mainsail to receive files from PrusaSlicer. Works like Octoprint except it doesn't require a special authentication key. Still have some wiring to work on before it will be ready to print...



The liba-whatsit update package thing I did for the crowsnest/webcam also seemed to take care of the earlier touchscreen issue I was having a,   but after a few weeks running it from my laptop and phone,  I opted to keep the mini12864 display rather than the touchscreen.

It's more lo-profile less likely to get bumped or inadvertantly button pushed by someone brushing past it.  

Plus, it has a physical estop.  I e already used it a few times when prints came loose from the bed.

It's much, much quicker that getting through the screensaver, login pin, then hitting stop in the web browser.

It's small, and just below the rotary knob, but easy to push quick.  And very unlikely to get inadvertently pushed.


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## AlanB (Dec 30, 2022)

I have one of the 12864 displays that I picked up for the DIY Trident. I should give it a shot at some point. The LDO Kit's BTT 4.3 touchscreen is very good looking. The 12864 is more like the Prusa interface which is adequate if a bit old style.


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## Ken226 (Dec 30, 2022)

AlanB said:


> I have one of the 12864 displays that I picked up for the DIY Trident. I should give it a shot at some point. The touchscreen is very good looking. The 12864 is more like the Prusa interface which is adequate if a bit old style.



Yea, the mini isn't very flashy at all.  To be honest,  the estop is the only function on it I've used. 


 I kinda wanna go headless,  but after my missed steps incidents a couple weeks ago,  caused by a mal-placed linear bearing ball,   I used the estop more times than I'd like to admit.

When a stepper misses a dozen steps in one direction,  then takes off full-speed in the opposite,  it hammers itself right into the limit switch and just clicks away trying to keep going.


Maybe in a few months when I start trusting it more I'll consider going totally headless.


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## Ken226 (Dec 30, 2022)

After trying multiple colors and changing my mind half a dozen times,  the wife decided that black with a couple layers of red,  printed on a textured plate,  will be staying on.

My Voron knocked it out in 4hrs.


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## AlanB (Dec 31, 2022)

So we're about 20 days out on the Repbox with the desiccant, and the RH in the box has been rising the last few days from 10 to 14 and now 20. I just dumped out the bottles and refilled them with fresh from the bottle, so about 300g of desiccant lasted about 20 days. There's a gap in the seal on the door that isn't helping. The beads have gone from orange to clear/yellow so they are definitely indicating a change.

Nice touch with the layers of red.


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## AlanB (Dec 31, 2022)

After a few hours with the new 300g of desiccant the Repbox is back down to 10% RH, even without the tins of additional that were also in before.

Preparing to bake the loaded desiccant in the toaster oven at 250F for 3 hours, the recommended procedure.


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## AlanB (Jan 1, 2023)

The USB cable LDO supplied with this kit from the Pi to the Octopus board was a bit long and stuck downward from the Pi which is not a good direction. I picked up a cable from Amazon that is right angles on both ends but shorter and stays in the plane of the USBA connector which is a better fit. A small improvement.


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## Ken226 (Jan 1, 2023)

Sound like your pretty close to starting the calibrations, tuning and test prints.  I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes.



Mine was surprisingly easy. Most of the default values in the printer.cfg file were spot-on.   I had to tweak the extruder ratio by a small amount, but otherwise my calibration parts came out to within .05mm of nominal.  

Im still doing some fine tuning with ABS, to get the surface finishes as cosmetically good as possible.   

PLA was ridiculously easy.  With Polyterra PLA running at 55° bed and 210° hotend, I'm getting beautiful surface finishes.  Even at the rather fast default PrusaSlicer settings.


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## AlanB (Jan 1, 2023)

I have to dig in and finish solving some issues with the printhead and wiring. Getting close.


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## AlanB (Jan 1, 2023)

Decided to make a better mount adapter for the LDO Hartk toolhead board to the LGX Extruder while I wait for the LGX Extruder motor connector to arrive, a custom cable will be required for this motor. A few more details remain to get the printhead finished.






This adapter sits between the PCB and the Extruder. Prototype example below the unit installed on extruder. It's primitive but fits accurately and insures the pcb does not short against the motor.


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## Ken226 (Jan 5, 2023)

AlanB said:


> Decided to make a better mount adapter for the LDO Hartk toolhead board to the LGX Extruder while I wait for the LGX Extruder motor connector to arrive, a custom cable will be required for this motor. A few more details remain to get the printhead finished.
> 
> View attachment 431824
> 
> ...



It looks like you decided to go with the Afterburner setup, on that LGX extruder.

Out of curiosity, why the Afterburner rather than the Stealthburner?

Is that extruder compatible with the Stealthburner?


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## AlanB (Jan 5, 2023)

Good question. It wasn't what I wanted to do, actually. When my Voron parts were printed with the Voron PIF program a few months back, Stealthburner had not been released, so my parts are for Afterburner. I was planning the LGX at the time so they provided the LGX adapter for the Afterburner. So I'm working with what I have. I did make one attempt at printing some ABS+ with my Prusa MK3 in a temporary enclosure, but adhesion was terrible and rather than debug that now I decided to go with the parts I have on hand. Once the Trident is up and running I'll probably print Stealthburner parts, though perhaps I'll focus on the Salad Fork parts first. The main advantage of Stealthburner is for printing PLA, due to the better cooling setup. Afterburner is a good printhead but falls a bit short on the cooling for fast PLA printing. So while I definitely want the Stealthburner it isn't a priority now.  The LDO kit I have was released for Stealthburner with Clockworks 1 (a slightly odd combination), normally the SB uses Clockworks 2 but it can work with CW1. But the LDO kit doesn't contain printed parts, so I'm working through a puzzle of parts combinations from PIF and LDO and my own collection of bits and upgrades. Once I get a viable ABS printer going I'll choose a different path. 

LGX is compatible with Stealthburner. I do have the parts for Clockworks 1 that normally goes with the Afterburner, but there are advantages to the larger LGX gears, plus it's less effort to use it than to build up a CW1. The LGX Lite might be a better choice, this LGX was purchased when they came out, before the Lite was released. My LGX Lite is going on the Railcore which is waiting in the wings for me to order some more parts and finish it off.

I did order and receive the connectors for the LGX motor which uses a 2.0mm JST and the LDO cable set doesn't expect that motor so didn't come with a connection for it, and the LGX itself didn't come with any cables or connectors at all, surprisingly. I've got a crimper coming in soon so I'll probably wait for that and between that and the collection of crimpers I already have something should be adequate to get the motor cable done.

The motor adapter above was PLA which won't last very well, I did reprint it in PETG. It's weird that PETG adheres just fine at 85C and ABS totally failed at 100C, even with Aquanet. It acted like the nozzle was too high, perhaps it had to do with the enclosure elevating temperatures. It wasn't very convenient working with the MK3 in the enclosure so I didn't really spend any time trying to recalibrate it. It instantly and reliably works with PLA, TPU and PETG and completely fails with ABS+.

I see Digikey had some Raspberry Pi CM4 boards this evening while I was out. They didn't last long. Pi boards continue to trickle out.


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## Ken226 (Jan 5, 2023)

AlanB said:


> Good question. It wasn't what I wanted to do, actually. When my Voron parts were printed with the Voron PIF program a few months back, Stealthburner had not been released, so my parts are for Afterburner. I was planning the LGX at the time so they provided the LGX adapter for the Afterburner. So I'm working with what I have. I did make one attempt at printing some ABS+ with my Prusa MK3 in a temporary enclosure, but adhesion was terrible and rather than debug that now I decided to go with the parts I have on hand. Once the Trident is up and running I'll probably print Stealthburner parts, though perhaps I'll focus on the Salad Fork parts first. The main advantage of Stealthburner is for printing PLA, due to the better cooling setup. Afterburner is a good printhead but falls a bit short on the cooling for fast PLA printing. So while I definitely want the Stealthburner it isn't a priority now.  The LDO kit I have was released for Stealthburner with Clockworks 1 (a slightly odd combination), normally the SB uses Clockworks 2 but it can work with CW1. But the LDO kit doesn't contain printed parts, so I'm working through a puzzle of parts combinations from PIF and LDO and my own collection of bits and upgrades. Once I get a viable ABS printer going I'll choose a different path.
> 
> LGX is compatible with Stealthburner. I do have the parts for Clockworks 1 that normally goes with the Afterburner, but there are advantages to the larger LGX gears, plus it's less effort to use it than to build up a CW1. The LGX Lite might be a better choice, this LGX was purchased when they came out, before the Lite was released. My LGX Lite is going on the Railcore which is waiting in the wings for me to order some more parts and finish it off.
> 
> ...



I print ABS with the bed at 110 and the nozzle at 235.  Set the nozzle pretty close.   I go about .025 mm above the plate.  110 puts it just above the glass transition temp for ABS.


  Alcohol wipe pei plate before the print.  No aqua net.   I use aquanet for PLA, but it seems to act more like a lubricant at ABS temps.  I have no adhesion trouble at all with my West3d plate.

Oddly,  the pei plate that came with my Voron kit sucks.  ABS won't stick to it at all.   It's laying in a drawer now. It will probably going into the trash soon.  

I suspect I may have ruined it early in the build process when I had calibration mishap and put down a layer of ABS so close it wouldn't come off without acetone.


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## AlanB (Jan 5, 2023)

This is the original Prusa smooth PEI with 3M adhesive sticker. Works perfectly for everything but ABS, though I use some Aquanet on it for PETG and TPU. 110C is warmer than I like to go. Some things (like the 3m adhesive) are not rated much above 100, I just have used the Prusa settings which were 100C.  I have some other plates but decided to deal with that later and use the excellent parts I already have. No reason to risk damaging the MK3 now. It's my only working printer.

I have read others use Aquanet for ABS, but with the enclosure it looked to me like the nozzle height was too high suddenly which doesn't make a lot of sense since it works fine on PETG which is almost as hot. Anyway I made a couple of tests and set it aside since I had other ways of moving ahead. One thing I don't want to do is take the Prusa out of action by cooking the PETG parts, which some have experienced. I need that printer to be reliable at least until another printer is reliable.

I would think acetone and ABS would leave an excellent surface for ABS to adhere to, it is often used for that.


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## Ken226 (Friday at 10:38 AM)

AlanB said:


> I have read others use Aquanet for ABS, but with the enclosure it looked to me like the nozzle height was too high suddenly which doesn't make a lot of sense since it works fine on PETG.



I've found that PETG sticks really really well, to just about anything.    

Before I started using Aquanet as a release agent for PETG,  I always reset my Flashforge z offset to a bigger gap for PETG.    

After discovering Aquanet,  I can use the same Z offset for PETG that I use for ABS (.2mm)

Before Aquanet, my first PETG prints on the Flashforge ruined the build plates,  because with the .2mm gap the part stuck so tightly that then couldn't be removed.   The part literally pulled the pei off with it.  

 Before Aquanet, I used a single sheet of paper as a feeler gauge to calibrate the nozzle height for ABS or PLA.

  I used 2 sheets for PETG.


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## AlanB (Friday at 11:12 AM)

I damaged a build plate with PETG on the Lulzbot Mini. I tried glue stick, Windex and settled on Aquanet for PETG and TPU, and even a little AQ with PLA when the build plate PEI gets old and tired and needs some adhesion help (AQ is easier and works better than sanding...) I have not had to change Z height between PLA, PETG and TPU with the AQ on the MK3. PETG and TPU really like to stick to smooth PEI. I've heard it's not a problem with the fused PEI textured build plates, but I haven't experimented much. The PLA doesn't stick too well to the textured plates that were ISO cleaned, at least the one I tested with. I didn't try AQ on the textured plate. The smooth plate has worked so well I've just used it, and used it, and used it. I'll have to experiment with textured plates again. I also have a matte textured plate which I hear is a good surface for PLA, but it's still in the package.


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## Ken226 (Friday at 11:20 AM)

AlanB said:


> I damaged a build plate with PETG on the Lulzbot Mini. I tried glue stick, Windex and settled on Aquanet for PETG and TPU, and even a little AQ with PLA when the build plate PEI gets old and tired and needs some adhesion help (AQ is easier than sanding...) I have not had to change Z height between PLA, PETG and TPU with the AQ on the MK3. PETG and TPU really like to stick to smooth PEI. I've heard it's not a problem with the fused PEI textured build plates, but I haven't experimented much. The PLA doesn't stick too well to the textured plates that were ISO cleaned, at least the one I tested with. I didn't try AQ on the textured plate. The smooth plate has worked so well I've just used it, and used it, and used it. I'll have to experiment with textured plates again. I also have a matte textured plate which I hear is a good surface for PLA, but it's still in the package.



I love the textured plate.  My Iron red stealthburner,    @110c bed,  235 extruder,  and the z_endstop_calibrate set so the nozzle gives a firm friction drag with a sheet of regular notebook paper:

I've been quite happy with my Voron's print quality.

I printed the first layer using the Hilbert curves infill pattern.  Its just barely visible behind the textured surface.


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## Ken226 (Saturday at 10:56 PM)

The Voron made short work of the Benchy test.  45 minutes with 3 wall layers, 3 top and bottom layers and 20% infill.









Interesting how much small lighting differences change the color.   The stealthburner and the Benchy are from the same filament.


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## AlanB (Sunday at 1:54 AM)

The Voron Design group introduced the new Voron Zero.2 udpdate today on a Livestream as they usually do. The actual file release will be in the coming week or so. This includes a Mini Stealthburner toolhead, a new top hat for the Zero, and a number of other smaller changes. Kits should be released from the usual suppliers very soon after the design files are released. They have been presented with the information they need some weeks ago.





 Voron Zero.2 Intro Livestream

At 120mm build volume I'm not planning to build a Voron Zero size printer. I've got a Salad Fork kit waiting with a 160mm build volume that will suit my "small printer" needs a bit better. That's very close to the same print volume I had with the Lulzbot Mini which was just sufficient for most of my parts. I have other larger printers at 250 and 300mm so having a small printer is appealing. Perhaps eventually this will be the only printer in my office area, the rest will be in a room off the garage. The small printer is also good for taking places and doing demos, which I used to do with the Lulzbot, but it was a bit heavy and I no longer have it.


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## Ken226 (Monday at 12:07 PM)

The stealthburner to CW1 mate-up doesn't look bad, but definitely not as clean as the stealthburner to CW2 mate-up.

I want to keep the machined aluminum cw1 extruder,  and was tossing around some ideas to clean up the look.

Most of the solutions I thought up didn't pan out for various fitment and interference reasons,  but I was able to modify the PCB cover to fill in some gaps.













I think I'll run this awhile, and see how it holds up.


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## AlanB (Tuesday at 2:13 AM)

Keep an eye out for wear on the wiring in the cable chains.


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## Ken226 (Tuesday at 10:16 AM)

AlanB said:


> Keep an eye out for wear on the wiring in the cable chains.



Good eye!

I have been watching.   I saw the two spots your (likely) noticing early on in the project.   The X and Y both are like that, from the chains not laying flat.    I have been keeping an eye on them.

While printing, the contact between the wire and the cable chain edge is static.  It appears to be contact, but no rubbing, as the wires arent moving at all, just resting against the chain.  I'm at 200 hours so far, and there's still no descernable damage to the wire insulation from rubbing.

I'll be keeping an eye on them anyway though.



This morning I spotted this handle design on printables.  I bet it'll look great in Iron Red!  I'm looking forward to seeing how they come out, printing with the Voron.






						Printables
					






					www.printables.com


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## 7milesup (Tuesday at 11:19 AM)

You should make those handles out of aluminum @Ken226.


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## Ken226 (Tuesday at 5:48 PM)

7milesup said:


> You should make those handles out of aluminum @Ken226.



As awesome as that would be,  that would be way more work than I want to do.   

Maybe in the summer when it's not so cold out in the shop.

They turned out good in PLA though.


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