# Where to go for a small welding job



## JPMacG (Feb 10, 2020)

I want to have four 3/4-10 steel nuts welded to the top of a 2 foot long 5" steel C channel.  The local welding shop has a minimum charge of 1 hour, and that would be $70.   I believe that the job should take 10 minutes.

I am looking for suggestions on how to find a shop that won't rip me off.   I don't want to get into welding myself - I don't have time for another hobby.


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## brino (Feb 10, 2020)

Well, if you were anywhere near me, I'd invite you over to get it done......

What about posting in one of the help forums explaining what you need:
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/forums/can-you-make-something-for-me.452/

This site used to have a map section, where you could see other members in your area.....I wonder if that still exists?

-brino

BTW: I would not necessarily consider the $70 as astronomical....it is certainly NOT a rip-off for a comerical shop with overhead (building rent, machines, consumables, insurance, etc.)


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## matthewsx (Feb 10, 2020)

Professional shops have overhead. Rent, employees, insurance, etc. 

I can guarantee that the shop that quoted their minimum charge was not trying to “rip you off”. Having a minimum charge was the only way I could keep from taking in work that actually cost me money in my business.

I had a simple policy. You could tell me what you wanted, when you wanted it, even how you wanted me to do it if you thought you knew better than me. You just couldn’t tell me how much you you were going to pay.

Hopefully you will find a hobbyist who will let you watch while they set-up and weld your job. Welding is a great hobby and trade, try it out if you have a chance.

cheers,

john


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## Shootymacshootface (Feb 10, 2020)

You could buy a small welder from HF for around $100. Then you could weld anytime you want.


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## JPMacG (Feb 10, 2020)

Yes, "rip off" was too strong a word.  They have overhead, have to write up and track the order, pay staff and so on.  They are running a business.  The $70 hourly rate is actually on the low side.  Being unwilling to charge for less than one hour is frustrating to me.


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## JPMacG (Feb 10, 2020)

The last time I had a small job done it was by a friend who owned a welding shop.  He did it for free while I waited.  It took him about 5 minutes.  I did not appreciate how much of a favor he was doing for me.


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## Winegrower (Feb 10, 2020)

I am always impressed by folks who don't know how to do something but know how long it should take.   I hope to get that good someday.
Mostly, I know how to do something and still underestimate the time it takes by a small integer factor.


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## JPMacG (Feb 10, 2020)

I watched the job.  It took 5 minutes.  I am always impressed by people who don't know how to read.


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## DangerZone (Feb 10, 2020)

Shootymacshootface said:


> You could buy a small welder from HF for around $100. Then you could weld anytime you want.


Unless there is something special/structural about this, I would say buy a welder. This is a forum for DIY, why not use this as an excuse to buy another tool?


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## francist (Feb 10, 2020)

JPMacG said:


> I am looking for suggestions on how to find a shop that won't rip me off. I don't want to get into welding myself


Is there a local "used stuff" classified board for your area? We have one here in my city and occasionally people post to have a small job done for them. I guess you still have to have faith that the person doing the job isn't going to sky-jack the price for lousy work, but there is also a chance that a guy will be able to help you out for the odd bit of coffee money. I no longer want to take regular jobs on for people, but the odd thing that I can knock off in an hour to help someone out is sometimes a different kettle of fish. Just a thought.


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## matthewsx (Feb 10, 2020)

JPMacG said:


> I watched the job.  It took 5 minutes.  I am always impressed by people who don't know how to read.



Welding, like any specialized technical skill takes time to learn. When you pay for a professional service, whether is a welder, a mechanic, or a doctor you are paying for the experience and the lifetime of effort it takes to learn how to do the job quickly, efficiently and correctly the first time.

I really enjoy the helpful tone on this forum and am always impressed with both the cheerful demeanor and the restraint most folks here exercise in responding to posts.

Cheers,

John


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## silence dogood (Feb 10, 2020)

I ran a shop for years. Before a guy can pay himself, he's got to pay taxes, rent, parts, equipment, and whatever else first.  Second, he got have some form of education through schools, workshops, and apprenticeship. Third, lots and lots of experience.  70$ an hour sounds like a good deal to me.  Nothing wrong with getting a friend to do the job. Just remember, he may not have the knowledge and equipment of the guy that runs a full time shop.  Now that you know how much that it will cost. On the friend, at least buy him a cup of coffee or better yet breakfast or lunch.


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## NCjeeper (Feb 10, 2020)

My shop rate is $60 an hour. But if you walked in the door with that and had everything prepped and ready to go I would knock it out for free and hope you would bring me paying business next time.


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## silence dogood (Feb 10, 2020)

NCjeeper said:


> My shop rate is $60 an hour. But if you walked in the door with that and had everything prepped and ready to go I would knock it out for free and hope you would bring me paying business next time.


I've done the same thing in my shop, NCjeeper   And I've been on the other side of the bench. So in my small way, I try to let him know my appreciation, by paying him something if not money at least direct some work his way.


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## ericc (Feb 10, 2020)

I would just pay him the first time.  You might make a friend, and pricing on future small jobs could become more flexible.  If the one hour minimum bothers you, wait until some more work has been accumulated..


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## JimDawson (Feb 10, 2020)

In my shop, the neighbors get work free, or a cheeseburger (will work for food), but we help each other out.  Industrial customers pay $80 - $120/hr depending on what I'm doing.  Other walk-ins get charged whatever the job is worth but I don't really have a minimum.  But being retired I can do that and I pretty much specialize in the small jobs. If I were running like a real shop I would maybe charge in 15 min increments.  A 1 hour minimum seems excessive, but I can understand if they don't want the small jobs.


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## matthewsx (Feb 10, 2020)

My shop rate was $70/hr or $90/hr for electrical work (I didn't have any employees that I could have do it so it had to be me doing the job). My minimum charge was 1/2 hour, payable up front although I didn't always enforce that, if I knew you it was more flexible. I had lots of jobs where I just charged for a part, or if it only took a couple of minutes I might do it for free.

I came to having a minimum charge because guys would pick up a mower or weedeater from the side of the road and bring it to me expecting to get a perfect running machine for $10 because "all it needs is the carb cleaned out". After a few dozen of those where the customer didn't want to pay because we couldn't fix something that someone else had decided to junk I changed my policy.

Sure, there were people who weren't happy about it but I figured it wasn't fair to the folks who were paying my regular rate to give away our service to those who just wanted something done cheap or free. I had a building to pay for, heat, insurance, lights, advertising, taxes, and two employees to cover. I also knew that the local guy who worked out of his garage wouldn't touch a lot of that kinda work so I didn't feel bad about charging what I did.

On the other hand I had quite a few customers who really couldn't afford to have someone else fix their stuff and I understood that. Around this time of year I'd always get a few retired guys with heart conditions coming in with their snowblower carb in hand asking if I could fix it for them. I explained that I needed the whole machine to be able to do the repair but I could sell them parts. I can't tell you how many guys got a $4 carb kit and 20 minutes of free coaching on how to get it installed.

I guess for many of us who have run repair businesses we get upset when someone starts talking about "getting ripped off". Almost every local shop whether it's auto repair, welding, or whatever is a small business owned by someone who's invested in their community. Most aren't getting rich, many would make more money going to work for someone else, and some are loosing money but feel an obligation to provide a service that is disappearing everywhere in our country. These businesses generally aren't worth anything near what has been invested and would be nearly impossible to sell if the owner wanted to retire. Sure there are shops that gouge but in my experience they are rare and don't last very long.

For most shop owners the only thing they have that's really worth anything is their reputation. In today's world of internet reviews it amazes me how many people would rather write something nasty about a business they aren't happy with than actually talk with the manager or owner about what went wrong for them. Most local businesses will go far out of their way to make sure customers are happy and will recommend them to their friends....

Sorry for the rant, I just wanted to share my perspective as a former small business owner.

Cheers,

John


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## MontanaLon (Feb 10, 2020)

Check Facebook marketplace, lots of little guys there hanging out a shingle for work. 

A big expense of a regular shop is insurance, like the kind that covers their butts when they weld something together for you and then you use it in a fashion where life and limb depends on it and it fails so you sue them for welding it poorly. This is what put our local welder out of business. He didn't have insurance to cover a customer's idiotic idea.


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## Janderso (Feb 10, 2020)

MontanaLon has the idea. There are guys and gals just looking for a project.
The trick is for you to find them.


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## JPMacG (Feb 10, 2020)

My original question was poorly worded.  I stepped on some toes, and I apologize for that.  I should have been more detailed in my question.

I went back to the shop and asked some questions.  He explained that their principal business is large scale fabrication - tractor trailers and so on.  They are not set up for small jobs or walk-ins.  The 1-hour minimum is real for them - it cost them that much just to process a job.  He gave me several recommendations on local shops that would be more interested in my work.  He agreed that the job was simple and would take little time.  I went to his shop because it is next to my work.  In hindsight it should have been obvious that they were not the right shop for my job.

My initial frustration was with the minimum 1-hour charge, not the hourly rate.  Their hourly rate is low in my opinion.  

Again, sorry for the fuss.


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## Twirpunky (Feb 10, 2020)

Do you live near a trade school or high school that has a welding program?  I take on small jobs like this all the time. I have the person bring in doughnuts for the class and tell him to tip the student that did the work. It builds community support for the institution and the students have the opportunity to work on live projects.   
  The biggest drawback is sometimes beginning students don't weld so good.  Evaluate the quality weld you need.  If it is a high stress area, take it to a professional shop.

D


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## MontanaLon (Feb 10, 2020)

Twirpunky said:


> *Do you live near a trade school or high school that has a welding program?  I take on small jobs like this all the time. I have the person bring in doughnuts for the class and tell him to tip the student that did the work. It builds community support for the institution and the students have the opportunity to work on live projects.  *
> The biggest drawback is sometimes beginning students don't weld so good.  Evaluate the quality weld you need.  If it is a high stress area, take it to a professional shop.
> 
> D


This works as well. Some of the kids at the high school will go on to be professional welders. I took in a front axle to a mower and explained it to the shop teacher, my contribution was a tube of welding sticks I had picked up for $2 at a garage sale.

I got my axle back and it was TIG welded, sand blasted and repainted. A very professional looking job.


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## brino (Feb 10, 2020)

JPMacG said:


> My original question was poorly worded. I stepped on some toes, and I apologize for that. I should have been more detailed in my question.
> ......
> My initial frustration was with the minimum 1-hour charge, not the hourly rate. Their hourly rate is low in my opinion.
> Again, sorry for the fuss.



Hi Jon, 

No Sweat!
What I saw was your initial, understandable frustration followed by a bunch of mostly reasonable responses.

I enjoyed this thread.
Thanks!

Also, I think I probably owe @JimDawson a cheeseburger for all the great advice and wisdom he has dispensed here over the years!



.....wait I'll throw in the fries too:



-brino


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## Al 1 (Feb 10, 2020)

JP,    Can you drill and tap the C channel,  Or drill and double nut (one on each side of the channel?  Al.


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## JPMacG (Feb 10, 2020)

Yes, I have drilled clearance holes in the channel.  I just need nuts welded on the channel on top of the holes, just a bead weld on the edge of two facets.  The thickness of the channel is not enough for tapping - I would only have about 2 threads.   I could accomplish the desired result with a jam nut, but the weld is a nicer solution.  

I have had exactly the same job done before and it -no exaggeration- really did take 5 minutes.   He located the nut with a through bolt, clamped the nut and did the two welds.   Thirty seconds later he moved on to the next nut.


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## JPMacG (Feb 10, 2020)

brino said:


> Hi Jon,
> 
> No Sweat!
> What I saw was your initial, understandable frustration followed by a bunch of mostly reasonable responses.
> ...


Yes, I was annoyed when I wrote the first post.  The shop had an attitude.  Then I come here and (understandably) get more attitude.  I had to walk away from the computer or I would have been kicked off H-M by now.

Funny thing - I went back to the shop to ask questions, this time wearing my employer's  ID clipped to my pocket plainly visible.  My employer leases the building to the welding shop and occasionally gives him work.  Suddenly I have a new best buddy anxious to give me helpful advice.


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## fixit (Feb 10, 2020)

JPMacG said:


> I want to have four 3/4-10 steel nuts welded to the top of a 2 foot long 5" steel C channel.  The local welding shop has a minimum charge of 1 hour, and that would be $70.   I believe that the job should take 10 minutes.
> 
> I am looking for suggestions on how to find a shop that won't rip me off.   I don't want to get into welding myself - I don't have time for another hobby.



Check with a Muffler shop or a "back ally" garage. If you lived in my area I would be happy to help. I have folks stop by all the time asking for help. I love the variety. And it's
 nice to meet & greet new people.


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## C-Bag (Feb 10, 2020)

JPMacG said:


> Yes, I was annoyed when I wrote the first post.  The shop had an attitude.  Then I come here and (understandably) get more attitude.  I had to walk away from the computer or I would have been kicked off H-M by now.
> 
> Funny thing - I went back to the shop to ask questions, this time wearing my employer's  ID clipped to my pocket plainly visible.  My employer leases the building to the welding shop and occasionally gives him work.  Suddenly I have a new best buddy anxious to give me helpful advice.


Two thumbs way up, thanks for hanging in there. Like my Okie grandpa said you catch more flys with honey than vinegar. I've had more times than I can count went in some place with a little job and got quoted a price and just remained humble and when it did actually only take a couple of minutes they said go on, I'll catch you next time.


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## DavidR8 (Feb 11, 2020)

C-Bag said:


> Two thumbs way up, thanks for hanging in there. Like my Okie grandpa said you catch more flys with honey than vinegar. I've had more times than I can count went in some place with a little job and got quoted a price and just remained humble and when it did actually only take a couple of minutes they said go on, I'll catch you next time.



I learned that same approach from my dad. He was a master at making folks feel good about helping. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## royesses (Feb 11, 2020)

Wish you were closer to me. I would Tig them for free. I used to do jobs like that before I retired for a cup of coffee. I even supplied the coffee. 

Roy


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## Barncat (Feb 11, 2020)

My advice to the OP would be to grind or wire wheel to clean metal the area to be welded, grind any zinc coating off the nuts, and have it clamped in position ready to weld, so when they see it, they know it will actually only take 5 minutes, most of which will be getting out and putting away the welder. Just before lunch time show up with a box of donuts or a bucket of KFC and a $20 bill in hand.


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## C-Bag (Feb 11, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I learned that same approach from my dad. He was a master at making folks feel good about helping.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My dad felt it was his mission to help everybody who asked. Later in life when he retired he ended up being the handyman for the mobile home park and was busy all the time. He ended up being the guy the widows gave the husbands tools to when they passed. He has 5 of everything. I'm the guy on my block who does the small welding jobs for everybody. Because I'm out in my garage everyday they know I'll take care of them if I'm not swamped. The only person I turned down was one who needed a muffler welded. I don't weld under cars, even my own.


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## matthewsx (Feb 11, 2020)

Yes, thanks for hanging in there with us. 

I probably reacted to your original post a bit strongly, but as I explained it hurts when you're running an honest business and folks don't even bother to ask why you have a policy they disagree with. It sounds like you were able to get that question answered and hopefully get your part welded up. 

One of the things I really love about this community is even when people disagree on something they usually take the time to explain their position in a constructive way. We could all use more of that 


Cheers,

John


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## JPMacG (Feb 13, 2020)

Thanks for all the help everyone.  I really do appreciate it.  

I ended up going to my friend's welding shop.  He is super busy - not taking on new work for several months - but said he would fit my job in when he had a chance.  I gave him a $100 tip as now I appreciate him more than ever.


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## cathead (Feb 13, 2020)

I try to hone in as many skills as possible.  That way I can be pretty much immune to service that can be expensice, but then It's
just a hobby shop for me and I'm retired.


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## JPMacG (Feb 13, 2020)

I do lots of soldering and have done some torch brazing but I have very little need for welding.  I can count the number of times I have wanted something welded on one hand.   Years ago I would just walk into a shop, tell them what I wanted and they would be happy to have the business.  But the world is changing -now shops are looking for ongoing production work and don't want the walk-ins.  I suppose hobby welding is in my future.


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## great white (Feb 13, 2020)

Glad you got it done.

I'll add a little something to the thread:

if you do plan on buying a welder for future projects, it's not going to be cheap. You can buy the smallest, cheapest, flux core wire feed machine and probably come out around the 100-200 mark. But that machine is going to be....well, just awful. And an "awful" machine just makes it that much harder to learn the process and your "outputs" never get to where you want it to be...quality wise that is.

Sometimes you can get lucky and find a good used machine going at a decent price, but that's always a "wait and see" game. Not great if you need something done right now.

You want, as a minimum, a MIG welder. Home depot sells a decent Lincoln 185 (what I have) for around 600 cdn when it's on sale. This will handle most home shop needs and is a pretty easy machine/process to use/learn. But you will need a bottle of 75/25 mix. The prices on that vary depending on where you buy it from. I had to buy my bottle, which was 500 bucks. Then 90 bucks for the fill. You can rent bottles here, but you need to pay a 500 deposit and then a monthly fee, all on top of the price of the gas.

Then you need consumables (wire, tips, etc) and protective gear (helmet, coat, gloves, etc).

You can get machines that run on 110 power, but they'realways pretty limited by the 15 amp circuit most home circuits run on. This limits the welder. I prefer 220 machines, but I have a 35Amp 220 plug in my garage. I specifically had it installed when we built the house because I knew I wanted 220 for welding. If you don't have one in the garage you need to have one run to use 220 power, unless you want to make a loooong extension cord to steal the oven or dryer 220 plug.

You're easily over a grand just to get a decent rig up and running and then you have to learn how to use it well.

100 bucks was not that bad a deal if all you had to do was a couple nuts and don't think you will need to weld much in the future.

What do I do when I need to get some welding done?

I've got a Lincoln 180 MIG, an Everlast 250Ex TIG/stick machine and a 50 amp manual plasma cutter. Somewhere around 5-6 grand in gear and bits, which is actually pretty cheap for the capabilities it gives me. But I work on my own cars (as well as freinds stuff) and such so they've paid for themselves a couple times over. Same as my old Atlas TH42 has paid for itself in getting my hobby projects done. I don't even want to think about how much I have sunk into that rig and tooling......


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## extropic (Feb 13, 2020)

JPMacG said:


> I want to have four 3/4-10 steel nuts welded to the top of a 2 foot long 5" steel C channel.  The local welding shop has a minimum charge of 1 hour, and that would be $70.   I believe that the job should take 10 minutes.
> 
> I am looking for suggestions on how to find a shop that won't rip me off.   I don't want to get into welding myself - I don't have time for another hobby.



I'm coming late to this thread and see that the OP has already solved his problem, but . . .

Long story short, if you need a small job welded, have it ready-to-weld and look for automotive, off-road, 4x4 type places that don't seem crazy busy.

Recently I had the same problem as the OP. I was visiting a friend (700+ miles from home), in rural Northern California gold country and needed a small welding job done. I Googled, with few results, and ended up at a pretty fancy place. Displays of antique and re-pop hardware everywhere, a photo gallery of big $$$$$ gate/fence projects and the like. Very artistic.

So you know what I mean by "small job", I used an angle grinder (5/8-11 spindle) as a lathe. I screwed a 5/8-11 nut onto the spindle and used a grinding disc (in another angle grinder) to cut the hex points off, 3/16 long, to create a pilot diameter so the nut would self-register into a 15/16 ID x 3-1/4 OD large flat washer. I made 6 sets. All I needed the welder to do was place a heavy tack on every other flat (3 tacks per washer/nut set). Eighteen heavy tacks. I call that a small job.

The shop had a $40 minimum, which I paid because time was important and I didn't know the area. The $40 was way too much (felt like a rip-off) but they were long past trying win goodwill by doing favors for small job walk-ins.

As luck would have it, a few days later, I needed another small job welded. I went to a different weld shop this time (much less fancy) but the doors were locked. No doubt they were out on-site installing a big $$$$$ gate/fence project. Now what do I do?

Across the street, I saw a strip of small shops and some were automotive related. I thought, "I'll ask somebody over there where I should go". I know.  

The last shop in the row was an off-road 4x4 type place. The boss was in. I showed him what I needed. He said he'd do it while I waited. When he finished I asked "how much?" and he waved me off. I gave him $20 for the coffee pool and asked "Can I come back if something else comes up?".
He said "Sure". I ended up going back at least three more times over the following weeks, always contributing to the coffee pool, and everybody was happy.


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