# I Need To Build A Milling Vise. Best Kind To Make????



## ih8beingold

Originally I had planned to save up and buy a nice milling vise. I have been getting by with a drill press vise and I am at the point where I have had it. Between breaking end mills, wasting valuable material, and now ruining my only dovetail cutter, I NEED to do something asap. Embarrassingly my finances are limited and at my age and level of education I have accepted the fact that my life is what it is. So instead of moaning, I'd like to fix the situation by building a descent usable vise, and using it as a learning experience as well. If you were going to build one, which style would you build?? I have a mill drill and the table is about 8" x 20 something. So if anybody has ideas , pictures or just a helpful comment (good or bad), I'd really appreciate hearing them. I'm wide open to any ideas. Please keep in mind I have only a crappy vise to use to build a good vise. Chicken and the egg thing. LOL Thank you.


----------



## JimDawson

I guess if I were in your position I would build a Kurt style vice.  A 4 or 5 inch would be about right for your mill.  The design is pretty simple and can be duplicated on a milling machine.  With a little creative thought about setups and design, you could do most of it by clamping the parts to the table rather than using your current vice.

It would be a bit of a project, and we would love to see pictures of your progress.


----------



## Terrywerm

Ditto on the photos!

Sent from my SM-G360T using Tapatalk


----------



## KMoffett

Jim,

Looking at your list of machine resources and ih8beinggold's, I don't see that building-over-buying is even a choice for him (?). Mill vices are about as important as the mill itself.  I doubt that he can make a vise that is even as precision as his mill-drill. You can pick up used Kurt or import clone vises for some very reasonable prices on eBay or Craig's Lists. They should be very suitable for a mill-drill.

Ken


----------



## T Bredehoft

PM (Matt) has some 4" for somewhat less than $100, that are not at all bad.


----------



## francist

Well, I guess if I were to try building one I might try one like this. I think it's absolutely gorgeous. 

-frank


----------



## JimDawson

KMoffett said:


> Jim,
> 
> Looking at your list of machine resources and ih8beinggold's, I don't see that building-over-buying is even a choice for him (?). Mill vices are about as important as the mill itself.  I doubt that he can make a vise that is even as precision as his mill-drill. You can pick up used Kurt or import clone vises for some very reasonable prices on eBay or Craig's Lists. They should be very suitable for a mill-drill.
> 
> Ken



Ken, you are proabaly right.  If one had to buy the materials new, I suspect that they might cost more than a good used or maybe even a new import mill vice.  Then there is the cost of just the expendable tooling.  It would be possible to build a vice on a mill drill, but it would be a time consuming task and require a lot of very careful setups.


----------



## Superburban

KMoffett said:


> Jim,Mill vices are about as important as the mill itself.  I doubt that he can make a vise that is even as precision as his mill-drill. You can pick up used Kurt or import clone vises for some very reasonable prices on eBay or Craig's Lists. They should be very suitable for a mill-drill.
> 
> Ken


I agree. About a year ago, I picked up a near perfect Enco 5" vise for around $100 including shipping. Recently, I picked up a 5" no name with a few dings, for $60 including shipping.


----------



## Uglydog

Have you tried carefully placed hold downs?
Much cheaper than a vice. 
Take a alot longer to set up. However, there are things you can do with hold downs you will never fit in a vise.

Daryl
MN


----------



## astroracer

I just found this one at an Antique store last Friday... $35 dollars.


 I finished cleaning and refinishing it this morning. Best 35 dollars I've spent in a long time.


 What I am getting at here is look around. There are a ton of these vises out there. CL and Auctions are good places to find them also.
Mark


----------



## Uglydog

Learn how to check if it is closing square.
A vise that lifts, or doesn't close square may ruin your work, endmill, and face.
Worse is when it flings it across the room (it was a very small part, I couldn't figure out how to hold- it missed my face).
A good vise needn't cost your pension.
But, not all vises are suitable for milling. 

Daryl
MN


----------



## Doubleeboy

When it comes to milling successfully, in other words, not ruining your part or your cutting tool, rigidity is the name of the game.  Not to sound like a snob, or an expert, but for a newbie, and yup I was a terminal one for a long time and surely in some folks eyes I still am, a good vise in good shape will make all your past efforts look like they were in vain.   I bought a very nice Clausing 8520 a dozen or so years ago, very nice Clausing vise.   Except for all the chatter, worn cutters, lousy finish, basically an unhappy camper, but I had been around the block already a few times and thought every thing looked good.   In frustration, I bought a very well used 4" Kurt Vise off Epay, and holy sh*t did my problems disappear.   If the vise can not do its job all your efforts are in vain.  Building a very good vise is an act of Zen IMO.   I have seen fellow hobbyist build killer vises, but if you want get down to specs and accuracy, they were not making 5$ an hour for their effort.  Is it cool, sure it is, and a feather in your or their cap.  But if you want to make square parts on a mill, get a good vise somehow and do it quick because the alternative is madness IMO.  Like Ugly Dog pointed out, alternative clamping is better than a sketchy vise.

cheers
michael


----------



## f350ca

Im in a similar situation. I need a BIG vice for my shaper. Even if I could afford one they are pretty much non existent around here and shipping would be ridiculous. Its on my ever growing list. Im thinking the parts I need can be clamped directly to the table as Im making them as Daryl suggested. Haven't seen any plans yet but the Kurt design with the wedge and half ball to pull the moving jaw down isn't rocket science. Just pretend your Chinese and reverse engineer it. Wish I could help, if you do come up with plans please post them, I could hopefully scale them up to what I think I need.

Greg


----------



## ih8beingold

Your in the same boat as me Greg. This area has prices that boggle the mind for some very old and worn vises and machines. And as you mentioned getting one shipped here is even crazier. In the states they can get a package sent clear across their country cheaper than we can ship it to the next town. Ontario has become rediculously expensive for everything and most of us are making far, far less than we made 20 or 30 years ago. And getting a better job is 1 in a million because there aren't any left for the bluecollar guys. Fords gone, GM's going, hell even Toyotas pulling out, (the list goes on) and most of these guys that got let go are currently making minimum wage doing jobs the kids used to do. Manufacturing is quickly dissapearing and being replaced by absolutely nothing for us. They claim we're getting more technology type jobs, but that doesn't do much if your over 50 with a highschool diploma or less. Even my son can't find a summer job because a bunch of us older people need them to make the bills. The rich are doing fine but the average guy is quietly struggling regardless of what the government claims. Most of us no longer have any pensions so growing old will be interesting even though they've tripled our contribution payments and upped retirement to 67. My American friends are shocked by our cost of living compared to the average wage around here. Ok, enough complaining from me.  I had an idea when looking at a screwless vise on line. They seem straightforward to build but scaling one up to a descent size would be a pain because of all those holes that have to be drilled through the body. takes a pretty long expensive drill bit I don't own. After I looked at its design for a while it clicked that those half holes that the locking pin rides in, could be built as a separate piece. Take a piece of whatever flatstock drill holes with the appropriate spacing as used in the screwless design, then cut the flat stock in half along the centerline of the holes. Now you can bolt or weld it to a heavier piece of stock and basically build a screwless as big as you'd like from multiple pieces. I have lots of smaller pieces so I'm hoping I can piece something together. I think on it. I might as well. I can't sleep anyways thinking about my bills. lol


----------



## ih8beingold

Uglydog said:


> Have you tried carefully placed hold downs?
> Much cheaper than a vice.
> Take a alot longer to set up. However, there are things you can do with hold downs you will never fit in a vise.
> 
> Daryl
> MN


Yes I have a few clamps and some I made. They do work, but as you stated they are slow and awkward. I'm not opposed to using them but the convenience of a vise is really nice when you only get short lengths of time to use the machines. The main problem with the clamps on a mill drill is that I sometimes can't get enough clearance for a tool change without cranking up the head. With a taller vise I can usually just move the table over and change tools. Then my alignment doesn't get screwed up. Not the end of the world but it does use up a lot more of my very precious machine time. At first I was soooo thrilled just to finally have the machines I've wanted since I was a kid, now I'm complaining about them. Maybe I'm being a little too greedy.


----------



## ih8beingold

Doubleeboy said:


> When it comes to milling successfully, in other words, not ruining your part or your cutting tool, rigidity is the name of the game.  Not to sound like a snob, or an expert, but for a newbie, and yup I was a terminal one for a long time and surely in some folks eyes I still am, a good vise in good shape will make all your past efforts look like they were in vain.   I bought a very nice Clausing 8520 a dozen or so years ago, very nice Clausing vise.   Except for all the chatter, worn cutters, lousy finish, basically an unhappy camper, but I had been around the block already a few times and thought every thing looked good.   In frustration, I bought a very well used 4" Kurt Vise off Epay, and holy sh*t did my problems disappear.   If the vise can not do its job all your efforts are in vain.  Building a very good vise is an act of Zen IMO.   I have seen fellow hobbyist build killer vises, but if you want get down to specs and accuracy, they were not making 5$ an hour for their effort.  Is it cool, sure it is, and a feather in your or their cap.  But if you want to make square parts on a mill, get a good vise somehow and do it quick because the alternative is madness IMO.  Like Ugly Dog pointed out, alternative clamping is better than a sketchy vise.
> 
> cheers
> michael


I'm hoping it will solve my problems as well. The vise I'm using does work BUT every now and then it will let the part move. Annoyed barely describes how I feel when a part I've worked on for days as time allows is suddenly scrap because the vise decided to let go. It sure didn't take long for that dovetail cutter to loose her teeth after the part shifted up a few thou suddenly. I'm sure a better vise will make this hobby even more enjoyable. If I can enjoy it this much even with the problems I've been having, I can only imagine how much more fun it will be when my part stays put.  I may be complaining right now, but I can honestly say this is the most enjoyable, mind freeing hobby EVER. I absolutely love it. Give me a time machine and I'd do it all again as a Machinist.


----------



## JimDawson

One thing that comes to mind is that you might be able to make modifications to your existing vise that would make it more useful to you.  Probably for minimal cost.  You just need to understand why it's letting go and correct those issues.


----------



## Ripthorn

First thing I thought of when reading your post was for a screwless vise.  They seem straightforward.  There will likely still be limitations to it, but there are with any vise, really.


----------



## KMoffett

ih8beinggold,

Just for our curiosity, would you post a photo of your current vise... and mill?

Ken


----------



## HBilly1022

KMS Tools has a 4" Chinese vise on sale this month for $100.  Here is a link showing the 4" vise from KMS Tools next to the one that came with my mill/drill. http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/what-size-vise-for-rf30-4-or-6.45502/.


----------



## Joe in Oz

I vote for a screwless vice.
I built one recently - also for the excercise. I actually designed it when I first got my milling machine without a vice. I found the materials in scrap (very nice cast iron for the vice itself and 1/2" cold rolled steel for the baseplate) and machined the outlines of all parts back then, only to be offered a very heaviy and nice vice on rotating base for $15.... as you can imagine, the project got put in the shelf.
I finally finished it about a month ago. Works a treat. Its 4" wide and opens to almost exactly 6". The grooves for the cross-pin were milled with a 1/2" ball-end cutter.


----------



## tq60

We picked up a genuine 6 inch or so Kurt for 20 bucks about a year ago.

It was covered in crud and looked Chinese and so seller said 20 as we both thought Chinese.

Lugged it arround for a week or 2 in the truck before cleaning it up.

Hunt estate and garage sales and at estate sales find the manager of the company doing the sale and show photos of the things you are interested in and get on their email list.

Got our south bend 14.5 with much tooling for 200 bucks that way...

Craigs list works as well and wanted adds may work but cost more but looking for just vice or junk tools or divorce sale.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk


----------



## outboardguy44

If you want to drive to Windsor I will GIVE you a milling machine vise that I can pretty much guarantee won't let a part move around in it once you clamp the sucker in there. I think the name on it is Sheffield, it is English built, it's old but very robust and stout-hearted, has a Hi-Lo range for quick open-close. I can get pictures and dimensions tomorrow if you're interested. 

Best,
T2


----------



## Andre

A very nice writeup done by Dean Williams on building an aluminum "screwless" vise for his Taig mill.

http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/mill/vise/vise.html


----------



## Reeltor

ih8beingold,
are you sure that it is your stock moving in the vise?  If you climb mill, your table can jump a few thousands or more in an instant, ruining stock and braking end-mills.  I'm not suggesting that you don't need a new vise, only to explore all reasons, besides the vise, that you can be having the issues that you describe.

Mike


----------

