# Got My First Lathe... Logan 1875 - With Restoration.



## Mr Mike

I found this Logan model 1875 - 10" x 24" on Craigslist when I first started looking for a lathe... It fit the criteria of what I was looking for - Its the same lathe I posted about in my Introduction post. Original listing was $1500.00 but after a few weeks he agreed to sell it to me for $850.00 - I made the 12 hour round trip to LA  and back the same day to pick it up, On the worst holiday weekend one could pick, Labor Day..

I was excited but so tired out from all the traffic when I got there that I just checked for missing gear teeth, Carriage and Cross feed travel and the bed ways for obvious damage. he had additional tooling that he wanted to sell - Like quick change tool holders but no matching tool post - and other odds and ends that I took a pass on.

The lathe has an interesting past, It was an LA city school lathe, from what appears to be 1979 and has been in storage since 2008. You can see etching in the cabinet sides from students, as well as student abuse in the form of nicks and dings in the bed ways under the chuck that the tail stock rides along. It looks as if it was mostly a static piece in the class. The seller claimed it was the teachers machine and that student didn't run it.

There is plenty of paint missing and, a thin layer of surface rust covering the entire machine from sitting in storage. One cabinet door is bent but no other visible damage to the cabinet or chip tray.

After a great nights sleep.. I started to disassemble my awesome new machine down to its major components to look for latent damage, and so far Ive found none - most likely because I don't know what to look for yet - My ( the hard way ) lessens begin now... No matter what, so long as the bed ways are in good shape ill be restoring it from the ground up, Parts availability seems to be plentiful so a replacement bed is not out of the question either.




I washed the Bed with Engine Degreaser ( pun intended ), scrubbed, rinsed and towel dried it, low and behold its blue.. the whole time I thought the lathe was machine Grey. Nope, that was just all the crud that came off from the photo above.. After I find out the bed ways are good I'll remove the paint and build a sealed box of the exact bed size to dip the whole unit in Evapo Rust...




You can see the small nicks and dings. They're only in the first few inches past where the head stock sits.  The rest of the bed ways looks to be in great shape.  I'll need to find a book on lathe restoration so I know what if anything to do about them, I'd also like to know if the ways are hardened, because hardened ways from what I've read was an option on this lathe.




This is going to be so much fun, can't wait to get started, This will be the perfect starter lathe for me.

Should I do a complete write up on this restoration or do you guys just want the before and afters cause there is probably tonnes on here..?

Time to go research stuff, happy lathing people...

Mike.


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## killswitch505

Great score!!!!! Welcome to the soon to be broke club lol


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## mikey

Congrats on your new lathe, Mike! Happy for you.

If you plan to soak that whole bed in Evaporust then its going to get pretty costly. Why not consider using an electrolytic bath instead? It would cost you a few dollars for the washing soda at the market and it will take off all the rust and paint without damaging the parent metal and with zero physical effort. You can build a plywood box and line it with plastic sheet and I bet it would come out really nice. Just a thought.


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## Laytonnz

Good luck! I also started with a school machine exept it definitely wasn't the teachers machine..! Still painting and fixing odds and ends but coming to the end I must update my thread actually, I've learned a ton and so will you! +1 on the electrollisys bath works real good, I've also used drain cleaner in hot water... like a hot dip (caustic) not the best idea but works well.

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## RandyM

Mr Mike said:


> Should I do a complete write up on this restoration or do you guys just want the before and afters cause there is probably tonnes on here..?
> 
> Mike.



We definitely want all the details. And don't leave anything out.

What a great project.


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## rambin

im going thru the same process at the moment so I want all the details so maybe I can get an idea or two off you.... parts are available from logan but be prepared to say ouch!!  ebay might be a better option depending on what you may  need...Ive had great results with a big bucket and a gallon of super clean by Castrol (degreaser)  I put my small parts in there and leave them for a day and all grease and paint is virtually gone....  pretty much just hose off the paint reside, dry and re paint....


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## Bob Korves

Mr Mike said:


> You can see the small nicks and dings. They're only in the first few inches past where the head stock sits. The rest of the bed ways looks to be in great shape. I'll need to find a book on lathe restoration so I know what if anything to do about them, I'd also like to know if the ways are hardened, because hardened ways from what I've read was an option on this lathe.


Remember that low spots from damage cause no issues with the geometry of the lathe, only the high spots do that, so only the high spots need to be repaired.  Unsightly dings are really only an issue in the mind of the proud owner, so try to get over it and fix the things that really matter with making it a good lathe.  Dings on hardened beds do not so much have the crater divot with raised outer diameter look of softer metal.  Hardened way dings often look more like chips out of the metal, low spots only.  Note that hardened ways are usually not really that hard, so it is a matter of degree.  The high spots also may have already been addressed.  If there is a high spot around a bed ding or a hidden corner of the bed, carefully test it with a small file.  If the file wants to skate, then the bed is hard.  It is possible to hide dings fairly well using an epoxy with metal in it.  Some search and study time will show you which ones others have had good experience with and hide the dings by matching the color well and sticking well to the bed.


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## Laytonnz

One suggestion, buy or BUILD a parts washer I made one last weekend from an old sink, 20L oil drum a battery charger a car fuel pump  and some plywood .

Works perfect and I couldn't be without it anymore.! So much time on the floor with a bucket and brush

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## Nogoingback

Congrats on the new lathe Mike, and welcome to the forum.  Be sure and write up your work as you go, and don't hesitate to ask questions.  We like lots of pictures!


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## Campfire

Welcome! Having just finished getting my Logan 820 back together, there is so much information and great advice on here. 
I'm learning new stuff everyday and feel like I'm back in school again. 

You will have a blast getting into it and find all kinds of stuff to try and projects to make.


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## Mr Mike

Thank you all for your responses. There is allot of information and many options to explore here on the HM forums as well as videos to watch, I don't want to get into an information overload.. So ill try and concentrate on issues as I cross them.

There are some informative post made here about paint and rust removal from the bed, ill start looking into them as suggested.. Again thanks - Mike

Lol Look what I found while inspecting the tail stock...


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## RandyM

Cool, a lathe with your name on it. It was yours before you even knew it existed.


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## Mr Mike

I"m well under way with the bed restoration, When I say well under way I mean really slow progress, Or should I say science project..
The bed hasn't been touched yet because I've been testing out different water chemistries and sacrificial anode placement for the electrolysis portion of my project.

I have plenty of photos, just need to write up what I've been up to when I complete this portion of the project.. I have a feeling this will take a bit of time to complete - Be back when I have made progress.


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## tq60

Electrolysis is simple.

Battery charger and whatever iron or steel scrap for electrodes not stainless and some lye (what we use)

The electrodes will look like corn dogs to they need cleaning every few hours.

The lye will attack the paint to remove.

If you want high speed go to sams club and pick up a 3 pack of grill cleaner from grill department.

It is non aerosol pump type 3 quarts with sprayer for 9 bucks or so.

This is oven cleaner and it will get grease and paint in a hurry.

Do this OUTSIDE, spray on and let soak for 20 minutes then scrub with brush and rinse with water FROM A DISTANCE as this stuff burns and spray everything near as splatter will attack what it lands on.

A few cycles and you will be bare metal.

A night in the tank will get the surface rust.

As soon as it comes out dry the ways and wax them with paste wax to prevent rusting.

Tape then primer ASAP as it will rust fast.

Many coats of paint will fill the iron surface.

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## markba633csi

Washing soda (sodium carbonate, from supermarket or pottery supply) is usually used for the electrolyte rather than lye. If you do use lye it only takes a very small amount. 
You'll need some serious amps to do a piece as big as a lathe bed;  a small DC welder would be a good choice. 
Rebar makes a good electrode, stainless electrodes give off chlorine which is nasty and toxic. 
Mark S.
ps you may not like the finish this process gives- try a scrap piece first before you do the whole bed.


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## Mr Mike

tq60 said:


> Electrolysis is simple.
> 
> Battery charger and whatever iron or steel scrap for electrodes not stainless and some lye (what we use)
> 
> The electrodes will look like corn dogs to they need cleaning every few hours.
> 
> The lye will attack the paint to remove.
> 
> If you want high speed go to sams club and pick up a 3 pack of grill cleaner from grill department.
> 
> It is non aerosol pump type 3 quarts with sprayer for 9 bucks or so.
> 
> This is oven cleaner and it will get grease and paint in a hurry.
> 
> Do this OUTSIDE, spray on and let soak for 20 minutes then scrub with brush and rinse with water FROM A DISTANCE as this stuff burns and spray everything near as splatter will attack what it lands on.
> 
> A few cycles and you will be bare metal.
> 
> A night in the tank will get the surface rust.
> 
> As soon as it comes out dry the ways and wax them with paste wax to prevent rusting.
> 
> Tape then primer ASAP as it will rust fast.
> 
> Many coats of paint will fill the iron surface.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk



Thanks guys for the input..

TQ60 Thanks for play by play - electrolysis seems easy and super messy.. fun science, this project is my first attempt doing it.. I built a tank for the Lathe Bed and Supports last week and did allot of research & testing before dunking my Bed in.
I learned allot doing this first test run of just 12hrs , I was considering Easy off oven cleaner for the paint - I'm not in a big rush so I thought id give the electrolysis a try first.. It worked like a charm getting the paint off. I still have some rust to deal with.

The lathe bed came out pretty darn good for only being immersed for only 12 hours, there was some amount of rust removal but Id say 80 percent of the paint came off. I thought there would be some blackening of the metal but none was present.. there was no measurable difference in the bed ways that I could tell, Paint also came off where there was no anode nearby.. Bad Paint Job Maybe.



markba633csi said:


> Washing soda (sodium carbonate, from supermarket or pottery supply) is usually used for the electrolyte rather than lye. If you do use lye it only takes a very small amount.
> You'll need some serious amps to do a piece as big as a lathe bed;  a small DC welder would be a good choice.
> Rebar makes a good electrode, stainless electrodes give off chlorine which is nasty and toxic.
> Mark S.
> ps you may not like the finish this process gives- try a scrap piece first before you do the whole bed.



Mark I went every where looking for the Arm & Hammer Washing soda, Big box stores, Grocery Market - I ended up using Ph up from a pool Supply Store 100% Sodium Carbonate.

I tested both Rebar which was my first choice ( Inexpensive Vs Steel plate ) and Some 3/4 Steel Tubing as my anode, The difference was staggering between them.

wholly mackerel you hit the nail on the head with the power source Issue - unfortunately I learned that really fast after my chargers safety circuit cut in after only 3 minutes of use. I did some checking with my amp meter and found my charger was pushing 18 amps instead of 10 amps..  Worried that my bed was just sitting  in water I removed an anode set from the Circuit and the amps dropped, I also checked to see if reducing the amount of sodium carbonate in the water would have the same effect, which it did.. I was using 1 ounce per a gallon when I started - doing a couple more test I found that starting a new mixture of 15 gallons of water with just 3 ounces of Sodium Carbonate did the trick in lowering the Amp draw to around 8.7 amps.

After a couple more hours I heard the dreaded click noise, I was like you have got to be kidding me - It was late so I removed an anode set from the circuit dropping the current to around a 5 amp load on the charger and let the bed cook over night...

In the morning I went to check on my Frankenstein creation... I found It lives which I think gives me the title of backyard scientist.







Note: I added an additional photo for comparison purposes.. I did a second bath for the lathe Bed only.
All paint and rust have been removed. The bed ways were cleaned with Ultra fine Scotch Bright pads and cutting oil.


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## markba633csi

Good job Herr Frankenstein !
M


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## killswitch505

Damn I'm gonna have to try that


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## Ulma Doctor

nice work and congratulations on the new lathe!


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## markba633csi

Damn where's my Logan?
MS


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## Mr Mike

Thank you all  for the the likes..

I made this electrolysis project much harder, longer and costly then it need be. Except for the science and fun I had there is no need to do what I did here in the photos, I just wanted to see the action as it was happening.

It might be better to use a hard plastic kiddie Pool like the one used in Keith Rucker Youtube Videos... That would do the trick and for around $12.00 instead of $70.00 plus a half  days work for my clear plastic tank - plus another 4 hours to turn down 21 rebar for making and holding the anodes.

Some photos so you can see how it was done..


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## tq60

Is that ammeter dc rated?

Most are only rated for AC but typical battery charger is not filtered so it may sort of work.

We may need to try the pool stuff someday.

We tried to find washing soda and given the data we had it was that or lye we use lye and pick it up at yard and estate sales.

You have discovered the concentrate alters the current as does the surface area.

We only use a couple electrodes in a 30 gallon trash can and rotate ends for longer items.

Our SB 14.5 bed was too long and heavy but nasty greasy so we just used the grill cleaner on it.

You did well with your first build.

We suggest going online to ebay and getting a SHUNT for the ammeter as it is very accurate and less worry about dropping an instrument in the tank.

They are basically a real low value high precision resistor that goes in circuit and give a multiplier output like 1 milli - volt per amp.

Measure voltage with a hf voltmeter and you are good.

We have car batteries for helping  the dc power source as the current starts small then increases as the crud comes off but decreases when the corn dogs form.

Get a shunt and scrap panel meter or get an old school automotive direct reading ammeter and use it as it allows you to know when to clean the electrodes


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## Mr Mike

tq60 said:


> Is that ammeter dc rated?
> 
> Most are only rated for dc but typical battery charger is not filtered so it may sort of work.
> 
> We may need to try the pool stuff someday.
> 
> We tried to find washing soda and given the data we had it was that or lye we use lye and pick it up at yard and estate sales.
> 
> You have discovered the concentrate alters the current as does the surface area.
> 
> We only use a couple electrodes in a 30 gallon trash can and rotate ends for longer items.
> 
> Our SB 14.5 bed was too long and heavy but nasty greasy so we just used the grill cleaner on it.
> 
> You did well with your first build.
> 
> We suggest going online to ebay and getting a SHUNT for the ammeter as it is very accurate and less worry about dropping an instrument in the tank.
> 
> They are basically a real low value high precision resistor that goes in circuit and give a multiplier output like 1 milli - volt per amp.
> 
> Measure voltage with a hf voltmeter and you are good.
> 
> We have car batteries for helping  the dc power source as the current starts small then increases as the crud comes off but decreases when the corn dogs form.
> 
> Get a shunt and scrap panel meter or get an old school automotive direct reading ammeter and use it as it allows you to know when to clean the electrodes
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk



Sup TQ..

No that Amp Meter is not DC compliant, No hall effect sensor..  But it works well with my 30 year old 12V Transformer Charger.
Charger is set to charge the battery at 2 Amps in first photo then 10 Amps second photo - Note This Meter will not work on new electronic charger...!

The Amp Meter may not be dead on accurate. But it told me exactly what I needed to know when I was doing the electrolysis and my chargers thermal protection cut in, which was will the amp draw lower if I lower the amount of Sodium Carbonate and or remove a bank of anodes, which it did.

Most people no little about Electricity or how it works - Its very cool you noticed and asked, this old style transformers battery charger doesn't output pure DC current like a battery does, so any amp meter will register.

And no the charger is not in contact with the lathe Bed





I could not find Arm & Hammer Washing Soda anywhere which is also 100% sodium Carbonate, So I Googled it and found many product contain 100% Sodium Carbonate.

LOL I have used Oven Cleaner to get paint off before, most notably my Ex-Girl friends name off my car door in High school, but I worried that it may damage the lathe.

I heard previously on wood working forums about using Electrolysis to remove rust, before this whole lathe thing started and when it was suggested to me on this forum it made sense to me.

Thank you for the first build complement, and your right I should be using a Shunt to check current.  I'm a service Tech by trade with formal training in AC, Heating and electronics.

Thanks for all the Info, I bet Your South Bend Is amazing, and you can make really cool stuff. 
personally I don't need a lathe but Ive always wanted one, I know ill never be even close to any of you guys in its use - but I can count so many time I've said to my self... if I only had a lathe I could fix that.. it was time to get one.

Nice talking to ya - Mike S


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## Mr Mike

mikey said:


> Congrats on your new lathe, Mike! Happy for you.
> 
> If you plan to soak that whole bed in Evaporust then its going to get pretty costly. Why not consider using an electrolytic bath instead? It would cost you a few dollars for the washing soda at the market and it will take off all the rust and paint without damaging the parent metal and with zero physical effort. You can build a plywood box and line it with plastic sheet and I bet it would come out really nice. Just a thought.



Thanks for suggesting I do Electrolysis on the Logan lathe, It was a very fun informative Project. It did a good job removing most all the paint and rust, I am very happy with the results and will do rest of the lathe parts this way.

Right now I would say the lathe bed and supports are ready for a finish, before I start that I was wondering if I put the Lathe Bed back in for a second electrolysis session, would that help with the aged staining of the ways and brighten them up a bit...?
Thanks Mikey..!


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## mikey

Mr Mike said:


> Thanks for suggesting I do Electrolysis on the Logan lathe, It was a very fun informative Project. It did a good job removing most all the paint and rust, I am very happy with the results and will do rest of the lathe parts this way.
> 
> Right now I would say the lathe bed and supports are ready for a finish, before I start that I was wondering if I put the Lathe Bed back in for a second electrolysis session, would that help with the aged staining of the ways and brighten them up a bit...?
> Thanks Mikey..!
> 
> View attachment 242112



Sorry but ERR will not remove stains like that. Normally, stains do not affect function so you can just oil over them and ignore them. If they bug you, try some WD-40 and Scotchbrite and they will usually shine up. Not much metal is removed with this so it won't affect the function of the lathe.

Glad ERR worked for you. Anything that will save you work is a good thing to know about!


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## Mr Mike

mikey said:


> Sorry but ERR will not remove stains like that. Normally, stains do not affect function so you can just oil over them and ignore them. If they bug you, try some WD-40 and Scotchbrite and they will usually shine up. Not much metal is removed with this so it won't affect the function of the lathe.
> 
> Glad ERR worked for you. Anything that will save you work is a good thing to know about!



Thanks for the quick response Mike..

The stains and nicks on the ways don't really bother me much, I just wanted to check before I begin the finishing work.


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## mikey

Mr Mike said:


> Thanks for the quick response Mike..
> 
> The stains and nicks on the ways don't really bother me much, I just wanted to check before I begin the finishing work.



You did a great job on de-rusting your lathe bed, Mike. I know how much work it was but it came out really clean. Your restoration will be beautiful, I'm sure. Keep us posted, please. Most of us love seeing an old machine brought back to life; I know she'll have a better life in your hands.


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## Mr Mike

Question my fellow citizens..!
Is there any reason " Or is it blasphemy " If I paint this Logan Lathe Other then the factory Blue color..? If need be I will be happy to go with a factory color, just thought white would give it a more modern look like the newer lathes on the market.

I was thinking of going with a Dark Grey for the base and chip catcher, and Satin White for the lathe body, Supports and Saddle with Handles and knobs Dark Grey to match the base. 
Also what Type / Brand of paint would you recommend, I was thinking a qrt can of *Rust-Oleum *Oil Based paint would do the trick.  Or an amazing water based solution if anyone knows of a good one. Thanks Mike.


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## Laytonnz

Mr Mike said:


> Question my fellow citizens..!
> Is there any reason " Or is it blasphemy " If I paint this Logan Lathe Other then the factory Blue color..? If need be I will be happy to go with a factory color, just thought white would give it a more modern look like the newer lathes on the market.
> 
> I was thinking of going with a Dark Grey for the base and chip catcher, and Satin White for the lathe body, Supports and Saddle with Handles and knobs Dark Grey to match the base.
> Also what Type / Brand of paint would you recommend, I was thinking a qrt can of *Rust-Oleum *Oil Based paint would do the trick.  Or an amazing water based solution if anyone knows of a good one. Thanks Mike.


Hey, nice work so far.

I've just painted a harrison l5 white if you're interested in what it may look like, I have a thread in the antique and vintage section .

I like it, it may not be to everyone's taste but that's okay, they don't have to look at it everyday.

I used super etch for a primer then wattyl killrust metal epoxy for a top coat.

Done 2 coats with a brush and wasn't geting a very desirable finish so brought a 200ml touch up gun and it came up mint!

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## Mr Mike

Laytonnz said:


> I've just painted a harrison l5 white if you're interested in what it may look like, I have a thread in the antique and vintage section .



Yes.. Yes I love it, Looks Fabulous...  You have done a great job - all the problems you had with that lathe,  you overcame them one at a time and now shes a beauty. Congrats..!


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## Bob Korves

Mr Mike said:


> Is there any reason " Or is it blasphemy " If I paint this Logan Lathe Other then the factory Blue color..?


Your Logan is a fairly common lathe, not some rare and historically important artifact, at least so far.  It is also yours.  Paint it in any color scheme you want, pink would be fine...  

Soapbox/ON
I have a friend who once chopped and channeled an intact Cord, and also cut the roof off of a running Pierce Arrow, making it into a fair weather convertible.  That was when those old cars were more common, but he really wishes now he was able to go back and change his choices on those cars...  Old things do not become more common with time, they become more rare, especially in our disposable mindset society.  We machinists are often 'restorers' of old machines just so we can have something to work with in our shops.  Still, I think many rare and/or ground breaking machines should be looked at as more than metal to be shaped to our whims.  Some are also cultural treasures, and tangible history.   I am not at all saying we should think of every old machine as a cultural treasure, but I believe we should think carefully about whether the machine needs to be curated BEFORE bending it to the needs and wants of the moment.  Sometimes just changing the paint on an rare old machine can be a big mistake, and sometimes it might be better to carefully do just enough to get it running again so it can remain a working view into the past.
Soapbox/OFF


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## Mr Mike

Bob Korves said:


> Your Logan is a fairly common lathe, not some rare and historically important artifact, at least so far.  It is also yours.  Paint it in any color scheme you want, pink would be fine...



Bob.. Your right this Logan Lathe is not rare..! Which is why I was originally after a Logan Or South Bend lathe from the get go.. but you know how this works right..? The first rule of Murphy's law states if Mike doesn't ask, then Mike gets in hot water. I'm still new to the forums and there could be some Un-Written rule I'm not aware of. Or maybe there is an advantage to keeping it all original - Like a letter from Logan saying thanks for keeping our heritage strong and growing...  In which case I would keep it 100% original.

Just like your soapbox story.. I've looked back in life and said I probably should have left it as is, And you know what - I'm with you.. if this was a rare lathe you can bet I would keep It 100% stock - because it would be an artifact of humanity.
But now that I know there is no issue of customizing it, I intend to improve it somewhat..

Thanks for all your help with Info Bob, I appreciate it.


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## wa5cab

Well, I'm sort of a Sailors belong on Ships and Ships belong at Sea type.  I'm happy with any color so long as it's machinery gray.  But it's your machine.  Paint it whatever color makes you happy.  One nice thing about paint, unlike a cutting torch, is that you can always change the color.


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## Bob Korves

wa5cab said:


> One nice thing about paint, unlike a cutting torch, is that you can always change the color.


But you can never go back to the factory paint...


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## wa5cab

True.  But very few of the machines that most of us prefer have decent or even any factory paint left.


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## Mr Mike

Ok Boys and Girls, The lathe bed is going in for its 2nd and hopefully final bath. Just the bed - I'd like to get all remaining paint and rust off.
I learned allot my first run through and expect this run to go much smother.

I used a level spoon full of Sodium Carbonate this time and, all is well with just over 3 amps of current flowing. 
Now that the amps are in check I'll test it with my volt meter in shunt mode to see just how accurate the clamp ons are.


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## Mr Mike

mikey said:


> If they bug you, try some WD-40 and Scotchbrite and they will usually shine up. Not much metal is removed with this so it won't affect the function of the lathe.



Thanks for the tip... Mike.
I had amazing results using Ultra Fine Scotchbright pads and cutting oil "windex gets to messy"..!
Took about an hour of scrubbing per side to get them all shinny - only thing left was minor rust pits.
Hopefully I did Little to No damage to the accuracy of the ways with all the scrubbing.


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## mikey

Wow, that looks really, really good, Mike! Your lathe is going to be beautiful when you're done and you'll know every single nut and bolt of it. By the way, I like white, too, but my own lathe has a black bed and red carriage - this makes it go faster, you know.


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## Bob Korves

I have had excellent results using Evaporust followed by ultra fine (light gray) Scotchbrite.  Not a great recipe for doing a lathe bed, though...


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## Mr Mike

Bob Korves said:


> I have had excellent results using Evaporust followed by ultra fine (light gray) Scotchbrite.  Not a great recipe for doing a lathe bed, though...


What do you mean ""  Not a great recipe for doing a lathe bed, though... "" Did I do something that I should not have done...??


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## Mr Mike

mikey said:


> Wow, that looks really, really good, Mike! Your lathe is going to be beautiful when you're done and you'll know every single nut and bolt of it. By the way, I like white, too, but my own lathe has a black bed and red carriage - this makes it go faster, you know.



So you have one of them sports lathe..? Is it fast and pretty..?


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## mikey

Mr Mike said:


> So you have one of them sports lathe..? Is it fast and pretty..?



Yeah, it's the Emco Super 11 CD - black and red and very pretty. Well, at least it is to me. Austrian-built like a Swiss watch, they run as good as they look.


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## Glenn Brooks

Mr Mike said:


> What do you mean ""  Not a great recipe for doing a lathe bed, though... "" Did I do something that I should not have done...??



Well the scotch bright pads are abrasive by nature, which means scrubing the ways induces wear that reduces the accuracy of the ways, which in turn causes unwanted taper and variation in your dialed in depth of cut in when turning work. Most lathes of that era came out of the factory with something like .0005" or less of variation along the bed.  Soooo, anything we do that contributes to wear, generally we want to avoid.  The best approach is to use no abrasive pad whatsoever ever.  Just wipe the ways down with Way Oil and a soft lint free rag. The way oil and rag will lift any foreign matter, including super fine metal shavings/dust.  These show up as grey streaks on the rag. When you get no grey streaks on a clean part of the rag, you know the ways are clean. (This grey matter is a combination of minute metal scrapings scrubbed off the ways during contact with the cross slide, flash rust, dirt and dust floating in the air, and assorted small debris from making chips.  basically sort of a powdered iron and steel slurry mixed with way oil.  This stuff acts as an abrasive - grinding away at the accuracy of the flats and V surfaces of your ways as you move the cross slide back and forth. So getting rid of it now, AND each time you turn on your machine helps preserve the accuracy of your machine.)

Anyway, as you start rebuilding, here's a way to assess the condition of your ways.  Sort of a first step...

Find (or borrow) a good straight edge and lay it atop your lathe bed. Turn off the lights in the shop and put a flashlight behind the straightedge.  Look for any slivers of light between the straightedge and the ways.  Heavily worn lathes will have measurable gap between the straight edge and the bed. Two of my lathes have really minimal wear - .003 to .005" -great for a hobbyist!   One old, big iron machine, used as a production machine for the Canadian navy for 35 years, has as much as   .018" gap, which causes noticable taper problems when I turn long work, such as axles.

So, All lathes have wear.  It's  unavoidable. So don't panic if you see a gap. Just stick a feeler gauge through the gap to find out how much wear you have and how much extent along the bed. You may be able to see a flash of blue, maybe green streak of light at the end of the gap. That is the beginning of any wear induced curvature in your ways. Finding that will help you determine what part of the lathe has seen wear- and help youmcompensate when leveling the lathe after you have it reassembled. BTW, wear is usually the worse right around the front of the chuck on the Forward left hand side of the bed -closest to where the operator normally stands.

Be interterested to know what you find out.

Glenn


----------



## Mr Mike

Glenn Brooks said:


> Well the scotch bright pads are abrasive by nature, which means scrubing the ways induces wear that reduces the accuracy of the ways, which in turn causes unwanted taper and variation in your dialed in depth of cut in when turning work. Most lathes of that era came out of the factory with something like .0005" or less of variation along the bed.  Soooo, anything we do that contributes to wear, generally we want to avoid.  The best approach is to use no abrasive pad whatsoever ever.  Just wipe the ways down with Way Oil and a soft lint free rag. The way oil and rag will lift any foreign matter, including super fine metal shavings/dust.  These show up as grey streaks on the rag. When you get no grey streaks on a clean part of the rag, you know the ways are clean. (This grey matter is a combination of minute metal scrapings scrubbed off the ways during contact with the cross slide, flash rust, dirt and dust floating in the air, and assorted small debris from making chips.  basically sort of a powdered iron and steel slurry mixed with way oil.  This stuff acts as an abrasive - grinding away at the accuracy of the flats and V surfaces of your ways as you move the cross slide back and forth. So getting rid of it now, AND each time you turn on your machine helps preserve the accuracy of your machine.)
> 
> Anyway, as you start rebuilding, here's a way to assess the condition of your ways.  Sort of a first step...
> 
> Find (or borrow) a good straight edge and lay it atop your lathe bed. Turn off the lights in the shop and put a flashlight behind the straightedge.  Look for any slivers of light between the straightedge and the ways.  Heavily worn lathes will have measurable gap between the straight edge and the bed. Two of my lathes have really minimal wear - .003 to .005" -great for a hobbyist!   One old, big iron machine, used as a production machine for the Canadian navy for 35 years, has as much as   .018" gap, which causes noticable taper problems when I turn long work, such as axles.
> 
> So, All lathes have wear.  It's  unavoidable. So don't panic if you see a gap. Just stick a feeler gauge through the gap to find out how much wear you have and how much extent along the bed. You may be able to see a flash of blue, maybe green streak of light at the end of the gap. That is the beginning of any wear induced curvature in your ways. Finding that will help you determine what part of the lathe has seen wear- and help youmcompensate when leveling the lathe after you have it reassembled. BTW, wear is usually the worse right around the front of the chuck on the Forward left hand side of the bed -closest to where the operator normally stands.
> 
> Be interterested to know what you find out.
> 
> Glenn



Thanks you sir for sharing your knowledge on this subject.. I'm brand spanking new to the lathe world - where might I get a 48" straight edge that is dead on straight.? And how does one check to make sure the straight edge is straight before its used as a true gauge.


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## wa5cab

Assuming that the straight edge is a good one and not off of the $2.99 bargain table at the auto parts store, set it on the bed with the lights out and the flashlight behind and see what you get.  Then turn it over and check again.  If it isn't straight, the two sight pictures won't be the same.


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## Mr Mike

mikey said:


> Yeah, it's the Emco Super 11 CD - black and red and very pretty. Well, at least it is to me. Austrian-built like a Swiss watch, they run as good as they look.



I looked up the lathe its White, Black and Red.. Nice little sports car you have there.! Lots of buttons - I like Buttons.


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## Mr Mike

wa5cab said:


> Assuming that the straight edge is a good one and not off of the $2.99 bargain table at the auto parts store, set it on the bed with the lights out and the flashlight behind and see what you get.  Then turn it over and check again.  If it isn't straight, the two sight pictures won't be the same.



Hello my good man...
The big question is, don't you first have to verify that the strait edge is strait.. Is there a preferred method for doing that..

I don't think it would be wise to just assume a strait edge is strait.. Unless I'm missing something here, I have had many instances where the tool I was using as a gauge to test another device was out of calibration. Just recently while doing this project I had to use a digital caliper to determine when I had cut my Rebar bolts to exactly .24 inch. My super accurate caliper on occasion would add .01 which cause me to pull it from the chuck after cutting off to much...

Thanks Mike.


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## Bob Korves

Mr Mike said:


> What do you mean ""  Not a great recipe for doing a lathe bed, though... "" Did I do something that I should not have done...??


Evaporust is $20+ per gallon.  Though it works really well, buying enough to do a lathe bed is a large investment, at least for a cheapskate like me.  I think electrolysis is the way to go with bigger chunks of metal that need to look really nice when done.


----------



## Bob Korves

Glenn Brooks said:


> Well the scotch bright pads are abrasive by nature, which means scrubing the ways induces wear that reduces the accuracy of the ways, which in turn causes unwanted taper and variation in your dialed in depth of cut in when turning work.


Yes, the light gray super fine Scotchbrite pads are abrasive. but barely so.  You would need to scrub for a LONG time to remove enough metal to measure.  Using one helps to remove the stains and blend in the surface finish of the ways, so it looks better.  It also feels much smoother and less gritty afterwards, so some of what it removes probably needs to be gone.  The down side is that it is an abrasive, so any left on the bed after polishing will keep working on and on, so it must be really well removed after using it.  I only think of this sort of approach, of using any abrasive on the lathe bed, as a final polish for a restoration project, and only using it by hand, not power.  I would certainly not use it for ongoing maintenance or regular cleaning use.


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## Glenn Brooks

Mr Mike said:


> Hello my good man...
> The big question is, don't you first have to verify that the strait edge is strait.. Is there a preferred method for doing that..
> .



Is a straight edge, straight? Ahh, now we jump into the deep and the arcane! Depends on how level is the surface you use to measure the edge. And the precision of the instrument you measure the surface. Metrology is a subject approaching philosophy and way beyound my meager knowledge. Actually there is a section on this forum that has several interesting discussions about this. 

However there are some practical methods. Robert,above, posted a very good method to verify straightness.  Usually you do this three times, with three different locations on the same reference surface, then average the three. You could also use a granite surface plate. Even a large square of plate glass will do. Precision straight edges are large, heavy, reinforced and very expensive instruments -  in the realm of thousands of dollars. Delivered with an inspection certificate guareeteeing variation in the edge in the area of tenths or less - ten thousands of an inch. One must hang these vertically to insure the metal doesn't take a set and throw off the edge. So not generally available at a decent price.

Personally for a quick check i have used my aluminium carpenters rule - which I have found to be surprisingly 'straight'. Stainless 18" drafting rulers are often pretty good.  You can measure deviation of what ever straightedges you might have around the shop, with feeler gauges, mark location of the variance on the device with a marking pen and subtract from your way measurements - gives you a reasonable assessment in thousands. For me, good enuf. I don't worrry much about nano measurements.

As to where to find a decent straight edge. you could check eBay. I've seen a lot of 'surplus'  high quality metrology instruments coming out of Russian - old soviet block countries - for cheap.  Apparently old time socialist party machinists turn out to be pretty good entrepreneurs!

Glenn


----------



## Mr Mike

Bob Korves said:


> Evaporust is $20+ per gallon.  Though it works really well, buying enough to do a lathe bed is a large investment, at least for a cheapskate like me.  I think electrolysis is the way to go with bigger chunks of metal that need to look really nice when done.



Thanks Bob, we are pretty much on the same page here then, thought you were saying my using Scotchbrite pads was a big no no...
When I start doing the smaller parts like Handles and Nuts and Bolts ill test out the Evaporust and compare, Right now I'm having way to much fun with the Electrolysis though.. so all big parts are going in the tank


----------



## Mr Mike

Glenn Brooks said:


> Is a straight edge, straight? Ahh, now we jump into the deep and the arcane! Depends on how level is the surface you use to measure the edge. And the precision of the instrument you measure the surface. Metrology is a subject approaching philosophy and way beyound my meager knowledge. Actually there is a section on this forum that has several interesting discussions about this.
> 
> However there are some practical methods. Robert,above, posted a very good method to verify straightness.  Usually you do this three times, with three different locations on the same reference surface, then average the three. You could also use a granite surface plate. Even a large square of plate glass will do. Precision straight edges are large, heavy, reinforced and very expensive instruments -  in the realm of thousands of dollars. Delivered with an inspection certificate guareeteeing variation in the edge in the area of tenths or less - ten thousands of an inch. One must hang these vertically to insure the metal doesn't take a set and throw off the edge. So not generally available at a decent price.
> 
> Personally for a quick check i have used my aluminium carpenters rule - which I have found to be surprisingly 'straight'. Stainless 18" drafting rulers are often pretty good.  You can measure deviation of what ever straightedges you might have around the shop, with feeler gauges, mark location of the variance on the device with a marking pen and subtract from your way measurements - gives you a reasonable assessment in thousands. For me, good enuf. I don't worrry much about nano measurements.
> 
> As to where to find a decent straight edge. you could check eBay. I've seen a lot of 'surplus'  high quality metrology instruments coming out of Russian - old soviet block countries - for cheap.  Apparently old time socialist party machinists turn out to be pretty good entrepreneurs!
> 
> Glenn



Hi Glenn, thanks for your input.!
I think for my first real learning lathe this logan 1875 will be more a learning tool / stepping stone if you will, so I'm not real worried about perfection over education this lathe has to offer, If its off a bit no biggie...

I'm not doing this restoration to to end up with a best in class lathe, It's more to learn proper procedures of what works or doesn't work, the hows and whys.. something to learn basic machining from the ground up.. Care and maintenance, If I get lucky and that usually does't happen, I hope to end up with a clean usable tool, I would expect I will make all the usual beginner mistakes and damage the lathe over time too, But more important is really just having some fun.

I could have jumped in with both feet an bought a nice new lathe, but then it would just be sitting in a corner outside with me wondering what to do with it.. and missed the opportunity to learn Electrolysis and other learning aids..

Thanks again Mike..


----------



## Bob Korves

Mr Mike said:


> Thanks Bob, we are pretty much on the same page here then, thought you were saying my using Scotchbrite pads was a big no no...
> When I start doing the smaller parts like Handles and Nuts and Bolts ill test out the Evaporust and compare, Right now I'm having way to much fun with the Electrolysis thou.. so all big parts are going in the tank


Once you have electrolysis going well, you might as well keep using it as long as it is doing a good job for you.  Evaporust is easier, and less messy, but either will do a good job on most projects.  Evaporust is likely more expensive overall than electrolysis if you are doing both correctly.  On smaller parts the differences are probably negligible cost wise.


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## Mr Mike

Bob Korves said:


> Once you have electrolysis going well, you might as well keep using it as long as it is doing a good job for you.  Evaporust is easier, and less messy, but either will do a good job on most projects.  Evaporust is likely more expensive overall than electrolysis if you are doing both correctly.  On smaller parts the differences are probably negligible cost wise.



Hi Bob.. You are absolutely right, Electrolysis is very messy and I suspect that Evapo-Rust has allot lest cleanup afterwards, correct me if I'm wrong here - unlike electrolysis which removes Rust, Oils and Paint. Evapo-Rust will not remove Oils or Paint from the part, that means I would have to go through more steps.

This is the second bath the lathe bed took, as you can see all the blue paint that was left from the last bath is now gone from the center of the bed, which quickly flash rusted. No big deal it wipes right off..
However I have another electrolysis tip: Do Not set your bed in upside down or the Ways towards the bottom. I had little marks all over the ways from bubbles that couldn't escape from under the bed Ways. It took an additional hour to Re-Scotch bright the ways to remove the marks.

It would also probably be wise to not put parts in that capture and hold the gases because it will displace the water leaving the part in an uncleaned and marked condition.

All in all the bed came out of the second bath great, just had to wipe off the flash rust and clean the bubble marks off the ways, Its now ready to finish. The picture below shows flash rust on the bed just after being pulled from the bath, rinsed and dried. Note: the bed supports didn't get a second bath yet, They will but you can see the difference between the two.


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## Bob Korves

I have not done any electrolysis, but have watched it on YouTube, so I have a good idea how it goes.  Evaporust cannot work well on rust that has oil or grease on it.  There is a small amount of surfactant (detergent) in Evaporust so it gets into small places better, but it really is much better if all the grease and oil is removed, along with using a scratch brush or rotary brush on any loose rust, before dunking.  Evaporust works by a chelating agent that attacks only the rust, and when the chelating agent is used up, the Evaporust is dead.  So, the less total rust the better with Evaporust.  The good thing about Evaporust, and electrolysis when used correctly, is that they do not attack good metal at all, not causing any etching or frosting of the good metal.


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## Mr Mike

As suggested in some other forum post, I went paint shopping today at the PPG store. I explained briefly to the sales gal what I was up to and she stopped me and called the manager up. He was very knowledgeable and I've got to tell ya.. I was a hit at the paint place, I explained to him what I'm trying to do - that I am restoring an old lathe. He gave me 3 options that I could use, explaining all their benefits.

I told him that PPG products has had some good reviews on the HM and PM forums, I told him I wanted to go with a Gloss Dark Grey Oil Base for the base and chip pan, and that I needed a Gloss and low luster White Oil base for the lathe, I also stated that I was kinda interested in their 2 part water based epoxy, He said thats not a good choice If I'm down to bare metal because there is a chance it will flash rust under the coating and peel off down the road.. He then said that proper preparation would be key to a Oil resistant and long lasting paint job, I said you have no idea...

He said to make sure I got it sanded, or have it soda blasted to get everything down to bare metal to remove any Rust, old Primer & Paint and then give it a few good washings with denatured alcohol to pull out any oils from the Lathe Assembly. I told him that I had used electrolysis to do all that, He gave me a very inquisitive look - So I pulled out my phone and showed him my photos... He was super impressed with what I had done and then stated that was allot of caustic mix, and starting asking all kinds of questions. For the next 20 minutes I was no longer a customer that had questions about paint - I was the interesting guy that could answer all his questions because he wanted to do something similar.

After that chat was all cleared up - he started to give me some tips and tricks and suggestions on spraying vs brushing and then gave me some free spray primer to try, and tried to give me some other paint to test out and some color charts, when all was said and done I walk out of there feeling like a king with all the attention I was getting, he even ordered the Low luster they didn't have in stock from another store and will have my order ready tomorrow.

Was a fun day at the paint store, who would have thought getting a lathe would be this entertaining.


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## mikey

Next time you talk to your buddy at the paint store, ask him what he thinks of spraying on a 50:50 mix of Phosphoric Acid and water onto metal that has just come out of an electrolytic bath. Stops all flash rust, etches the metal and can be painted over. Been using it for years and never had an issue with paint lifting and such but he's the paint expert and I would defer to him.


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## Mr Mike

Hello Mike..
Um - Questions..? does the 50:50 etch the bed ways too..? how do you neutralize the acid when your done..? do you use water based primers and topcoat..? Thanks Ill ask your question when I go get my paint..
I don't know how it is for you guys but normally when I go to the paint store and start asking questions, I usually get the Deer looking in the headlight expression from the people behind the counter, He is not my buddy I just had a good day at the paint store which is unusual.


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## Laytonnz

Mr Mike said:


> Hello Mike..
> Um - Questions..? does the 50:50 etch the bed ways too..? how do you neutralize the acid when your done..? do you use water based primers and topcoat..? Thanks Ill ask your question when I go get my paint..
> I don't know how it is for you guys but normally when I go to the paint store and start asking questions, I usually get the Deer looking in the headlight expression from the people behind the counter, He is not my buddy I just had a good day at the paint store which is unusual.


I'm actually a painter by trade and yes the people behind the counter give me quear looks often and refer me to the paint rep.

Look into adding driers if just oil based enamel or it'll take weeks to go hard.. I used terabine just don't use too much or the paint will crack and loose sheen in a few months.

I soaked my lathe with rags coverd in petrol. . . Not very PC but removed the oil.

+1 on the spraying.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## Mr Mike

Laytonnz said:


> I'm actually a painter by trade and yes the people behind the counter give me quear looks often and refer me to the paint rep.
> 
> Look into adding driers if just oil based enamel or it'll take weeks to go hard.. I used terabine just don't use too much or the paint will crack and loose sheen in a few months.
> 
> I soaked my lathe with rags coverd in petrol. . . Not very PC but removed the oil.
> 
> +1 on the spraying.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk



Hey Laytonnz..
I was thinking of adding a hardener to the oil based paint but I've never shot Oil ( well except Rattle Cans of Rust-oleum ) only Water based products. So I'm real worried about using my Compressor Hvlp Gun to spray it, Actually I'm thinking about buying the hand held Graco TrueCoat 360 airless.. because I don't have an air *Desiccant *filter for my Hvlp to stop moisture. and my regular airless Is a full size so it takes a Qrt just to fill the hose.. What do you recommend..?


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## mikey

Doesn't seem to damage machined surfaces but you could tape over the ways and then spray it on. You do not need to use this but I do it for most stuff I treat with ERR and it works for me.


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## Glenn Brooks

+1 what Mikey said about Ospho (phosphoric acid) as part of your metal prep.

 Ospho is a brand name I think. Sold in local hardware stores. I've used it around boats for 45 years and keep a gal jug sitting on my welding/grinding bench. I routinely use it to get rid of rust on old steel, and to clean up weldments before machining or painting. I usually apply it with a cheap throw away chip brush, then let  it air dry overnight. 

Phosphoric acid chemically changes iron oxide AKA 'Rust' to iron phospate, but is non reactive with the underlying steel and/ or iron .  The iron phosphate acts a moisture barrier, preventing rust. You do need to wire brush the extra grey or black colored residue off the work before overcoating - not all of it. Just the loose powdery extra stuff. 

As a side note, If you want a really good prime coat, you might consider using marine undercoater, such as  Interlux Pre-kote (I think it is a one part polyurethane) or their one part epoxy Primecoat.  This stuff adheres  exceptionally well to metal surfaces. like fleas on a dog, as they say. Forms a second superb water tight barrier against rust formation. 

As Mikey said, tape off your ways and other machined surfaces, before applying. 

Glenn


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## Laytonnz

Mr Mike said:


> Hey Laytonnz..
> I was thinking of adding a hardener to the oil based paint but I've never shot Oil ( well except Rattle Cans of Rust-oleum ) only Water based products. So I'm real worried about using my Compressor Hvlp Gun to spray it, Actually I'm thinking about buying the hand held Graco TrueCoat 360 airless.. because I don't have an air *Desiccant *filter for my Hvlp to stop moisture. and my regular airless Is a full size so it takes a Qrt just to fill the hose.. What do you recommend..?


Just use a disposable moisture trap, I use one on my gun.. they are only a few $ each.

But do wear a good respirator.

An airless sprayer will put far too much on, well our big Gracos do.. I only use a 200ml touch up gun for painting machines perfect for geting in small spaces and around all the handles ect without putting too much paint on

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## Mr Mike

Glenn Brooks said:


> +1 what Mikey said about Ospho (phosphoric acid) as part of your metal prep.
> 
> Ospho is a brand name I think. Sold in local hardware stores. I've used it around boats for 45 years and keep a gal jug sitting on my welding/grinding bench. I routinely use it to get rid of rust on old steel, and to clean up weldments before machining or painting. I usually apply it with a cheap throw away chip brush, then let  it air dry overnight.
> 
> Phosphoric acid chemically changes iron oxide AKA 'Rust' to iron phospate, but is non reactive with the underlying steel and/ or iron .  The iron phosphate acts a moisture barrier, preventing rust. You do need to wire brush the extra grey or black colored residue off the work before overcoating - not all of it. Just the loose powdery extra stuff.
> 
> As a side note, If you want a really good prime coat, you might consider using marine undercoater, such as  Interlux Pre-kote (I think it is a one part polyurethane) or their one part epoxy Primecoat.  This stuff adheres  exceptionally well to metal surfaces. like fleas on a dog, as they say. Forms a second superb water tight barrier against rust formation.
> 
> As Mikey said, tape off your ways and other machined surfaces, before applying.
> 
> Glenn


Hi Glen..

Is that acid mix still necessary for removing oil from parts after doing 18+hrs of electrolysis..? My understanding is the electrolysis does that already.

Or is it to just keep parts from flash rusting..?  

Thanks Mike.


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## Glenn Brooks

Mike,

Yep,  mostly to prevent further rust formation.  In this case it becomes the first primer coat - stabilizing the freshly cleaned surface by sealing against moisture formation .- thus preventing oxidation.  (Sometimes I do this just to preserve the steel for long term storage.)

 It can also be used in lieu of electrolysis, but usually only after removing heavy rust and scale with some sort of manual surface grinding with a wheel and wire brush.   The  acid can only chemically react with the wetted surface, so sometimes doesn't penetrate deep enuf into a rusted surface to get rid of all the iron oxide.

As an aside, I have found it can  act as a cleaner as well- cutting all sorts of grime and some oils, (but not all) from a variety of materials and surfaces - and its great  for dissolving/cleaning  welding by products. But I haven't found it particularily effective on fresh machine oils. 

when I restored my old Dalton Lathe and Burke #4 horizontal mill, I stripped down the castings much as you have done. Then scrubbed and cleaned the bare metals with: 1) diesel, then 2) paint thinner, then 3) Ospho.  Cleaning the residue each time.  Then applied two coats of  Interlux marine undercoat and two coats of finish.    The thinner removes any left over diesel  and diesel smears, and cuts the oils and trace debris that the diesel didn't remove. Vice versa, the diesel removes some rust and cuts the dried oils that the paint thinner doesn't work on.

BTW, a little trick - if you have a delay of a few days in prepping your raw castings, spray with WD 40, or slop on some clean diesel with a brush.   this protects the bare metal surface against oxidation while you are maybe treating other parts. Then when you have a batch of components ready to paint, clean everything well with thinner and go right to your metal etching undercoat.

There's lots of ways to do all of this...

glenn


----------



## Mr Mike

Glenn Brooks said:


> Mike,
> 
> Yep,  mostly to prevent further rust formation.  In this case it becomes the first primer coat - stabilizing the freshly cleaned surface by sealing against moisture formation .- thus preventing oxidation.  (Sometimes I do this just to preserve the steel for long term storage.)
> 
> It can also be used in lieu of electrolysis, but usually only after removing heavy rust and scale with some sort of manual surface grinding with a wheel and wire brush.   The  acid can only chemically react with the wetted surface, so sometimes doesn't penetrate deep enuf into a rusted surface to get rid of all the iron oxide.
> 
> As an aside, I have found it can  act as a cleaner as well- cutting all sorts of grime and some oils, (but not all) from a variety of materials and surfaces - and its great  for dissolving/cleaning  welding by products. But I haven't found it particularily effective on fresh machine oils.
> 
> when I restored my old Dalton Lathe and Burke #4 horizontal mill, I stripped down the castings much as you have done. Then scrubbed and cleaned the bare metals with: 1) diesel, then 2) paint thinner, then 3) Ospho.  Cleaning the residue each time.  Then applied two coats of  Interlux marine undercoat and two coats of finish.    The thinner removes any left over diesel  and diesel smears, and cuts the oils and trace debris that the diesel didn't remove. Vice versa, the diesel removes some rust and cuts the dried oils that the paint thinner doesn't work on.
> 
> BTW, a little trick - if you have a delay of a few days in prepping your raw castings, spray with WD 40, or slop on some clean diesel with a brush.   this protects the bare metal surface against oxidation while you are maybe treating other parts. Then when you have a batch of components ready to paint, clean everything well with thinner and go right to your metal etching undercoat.
> 
> There's lots of ways to do all of this...
> 
> glenn



Hello Glen..

Thanks for the Information.. Its always good to have extra tricks up ones sleeve. 

I think that for my situation and geographical location stopping " Flash Rust " would be the most beneficial to me, once the part has dried it would take a good year for clean covered bare metal parts to show any signs of rust here Las Vegas, On average we have 20 days rain - about 4 inches a year..

I work under a roofed but open air porch attached to the house, I would be concerned spraying acid in the patio area, but if it has no effect on vegetation I could do it middle of the back yard..?

Good day Sir.


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## Mr Mike

Got a spray kit with a detail sprayer from Harbor freight " It holds 4 ouncs "- It's orifice is only 1.0, I also picked up a Dryer/Filter for it.
Ill do some testing and practice on some scrap with the oil based paint and report back the results. lol had warnings stickers all over saying to clean gun if idle more then 5 minutes, between coats and/or refilling the paint cup, lol it used to say 20 minutes on other's I have bought - Item 60239.


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## Bob Korves

Mr Mike said:


> had warnings stickers all over saying to clean gun if idle more then 5 minutes, between coats and/or refilling the paint cup, lol it used to say 20 minutes on other's I have bought


5 minutes would be long enough if spraying lacquer with a hot thinner.  Oil based, 20 minutes is fine.  A clogged nozzle is a PITA.


----------



## Mr Mike

mikey said:


> Next time you talk to your buddy at the paint store, ask him what he thinks of spraying on a 50:50 mix of Phosphoric Acid and water onto metal that has just come out of an electrolytic bath. Stops all flash rust, etches the metal and can be painted over. Been using it for years and never had an issue with paint lifting and such but he's the paint expert and I would defer to him.



I stopped back at PPG and got my paint & supplies, while there I asked about the 50/50 Phosphoric Acid & water trick... Same guy I talked to before, He said he's not heard of that trick.

I think I'm going to give this a shot too thou, I have allot of parts left to do electrolysis on, when I say allot, I mean the whole lathe still - minus the bed.. so I have plenty of time to put the trick to use..
Please give me the safety of use run down...  I'm guessing use a small spray bottle, Gloves, Eye protection and spray away from your self over an area where runoff will have little or no effect like a lawn.

Thanks Mike.


----------



## Mr Mike

Bob Korves said:


> 5 minutes would be long enough if spraying lacquer with a hot thinner.  Oil based, 20 minutes is fine.  A clogged nozzle is a PITA.



Hi Bob.. Ill be spraying Oil without additional hardeners hopefully today, so 20 minutes sounds sooo much better  Wish me Luck..


----------



## Bob Korves

Mr Mike said:


> Hi Bob.. Ill be spraying Oil without additional hardeners hopefully today, so 20 minutes sounds sooo much better  Wish me Luck..


Wrapping a solvent soaked rag around the spray nozzle, followed by a plastic bag or similar, between spraying, would probably help to keep things from drying up.


----------



## dlane

I had that set of spray guns , after three uses they leaked from the trigger and everywhere else thay could leak, into the trash they went . Hopefully they have better seals nowadays


----------



## mikey

Mr Mike said:


> I stopped back at PPG and got my paint & supplies, while there I asked about the 50/50 Phosphoric Acid & water trick... Same guy I talked to before, He said he's not heard of that trick.
> 
> I think I'm going to give this a shot too thou, I have allot of parts left to do electrolysis on, when I say allot, I mean the whole lathe still - minus the bed.. so I have plenty of time to put the trick to use..
> Please give me the safety of use run down...  I'm guessing use a small spray bottle, Gloves, Eye protection and spray away from your self over an area where runoff will have little or no effect like a lawn.
> 
> Thanks Mike.



I have a spray bottle with diluted "The Must for Rust", which is just the brand of Phosphoric Acid that I prefer, diluted with water in a 50:50 ratio. Once the part comes out of the ERR bath, I scrub it down with a medium grit Scotchbrite pad and I keep it wet until I get all the scum and paint off and then do a final rinse. I let the bulk of the water run off and then spray the part down with the diluted PA mix and set it aside to dry. This leaves a whitish layer on the part that prevents any rusting and it will last for months or even years if left undisturbed. I have an Emmert 4A machinist vise that I did this to about a decade ago and its sitting in a box until I get around to painting it - zero rust.

When I'm ready to prime, I wipe the part down with a rag lightly moistened with the same diluted mix and this dries in seconds. Then I spray on the primer and paint as usual. Sometimes I don't even bother wiping it; I just prime right on top of it, which is what the manufacturer recommends.

You should use the normal precautions you would take when working with any acid, even though Phosphoric Acid as supplied for this application is pretty weak. I use a respirator mask with cartridges, safety glasses and neoprene gloves and rubber boots when working with any acid but I admit that I've had to casually spray a little on a part and done it with no protection at all and had no issues; I do not recommend you do stupid things like this, though. Read the manufacturer's instructions and you'll be fine.

I've been using this method for a very long time. I've done very small parts to anvils to entire lawnmowers and never had any issues with the paint, nor have I had anything rust if the paint is not damaged. This stuff just works.

Over 40 years ago, I asked an auto body guy what they used to prep bare metal before painting their custom paint jobs. These guys did beautiful work on show cars. He told me they used Jasco Metal Etch, which turned out to be Phosphoric Acid. So, nothing new here, Mike.


----------



## Mr Mike

dlane said:


> I had that set of spray guns , after three uses they leaked from the trigger and everywhere else thay could leak, into the trash they went . Hopefully they have better seals nowadays



Hello dlane.
I've had issues like that in the past, all you can do is tighten the packing nut some, if that don't work then ya in the trash it goes.. Personally I think it should be federal law for 10 years after a product hits the market that repair parts be available for easily repaired items, we seriously need to stop this everything is disposable mentality, fortunately I have some backup Spray guns that I can use In a pinch if things go south.. Who knows I may have a good experience with theses guns.


----------



## Mr Mike

mikey said:


> I have a spray bottle with diluted "The Must for Rust", which is just the brand of Phosphoric Acid that I prefer, diluted with water in a 50:50 ratio. Once the part comes out of the ERR bath, I scrub it down with a medium grit Scotchbrite pad and I keep it wet until I get all the scum and paint off and then do a final rinse. I let the bulk of the water run off and then spray the part down with the diluted PA mix and set it aside to dry. This leaves a whitish layer on the part that prevents any rusting and it will last for months or even years if left undisturbed. I have an Emmert 4A machinist vise that I did this to about a decade ago and its sitting in a box until I get around to painting it - zero rust.
> 
> When I'm ready to prime, I wipe the part down with a rag lightly moistened with the same diluted mix and this dries in seconds. Then I spray on the primer and paint as usual. Sometimes I don't even bother wiping it; I just prime right on top of it, which is what the manufacturer recommends.
> 
> You should use the normal precautions you would take when working with any acid, even though Phosphoric Acid as supplied for this application is pretty weak. I use a respirator mask with cartridges, safety glasses and neoprene gloves and rubber boots when working with any acid but I admit that I've had to casually spray a little on a part and done it with no protection at all and had no issues; I do not recommend you do stupid things like this, though. Read the manufacturer's instructions and you'll be fine.
> 
> I've been using this method for a very long time. I've done very small parts to anvils to entire lawnmowers and never had any issues with the paint, nor have I had anything rust if the paint is not damaged. This stuff just works.
> 
> Over 40 years ago, I asked an auto body guy what they used to prep bare metal before painting their custom paint jobs. These guys did beautiful work on show cars. He told me they used Jasco Metal Etch, which turned out to be Phosphoric Acid. So, nothing new here, Mike.



Thanks for the info Mike.

I tried to look it up and there are lots of products that have Must For Rust - Krudd Cutter being one... could you shoot me a link to one you use please so I can get some ordered..
Thanks for your help - Love learning new things.


----------



## mikey

Mr Mike said:


> Thanks for the info Mike.
> 
> I tried to look it up and there are lots of products that have Must For Rust - Krudd Cutter being one... could you shoot me a link to one you use please so I can get some ordered..
> Thanks for your help - Love learning new things.



Yup, Krud Cutter makes the one I use. You should be able to get it at your local hardware store. They sell it in liquid and gel form and both work really well. You can use it to remove the mill scale on mild steel, too.


----------



## Mr Mike

Bob Korves said:


> Wrapping a solvent soaked rag around the spray nozzle, followed by a plastic bag or similar, between spraying, would probably help to keep things from drying up.



I do that with water based products, I fill a cup with water and keep the spray head submerged then when ready I pull the handle enough to start the air flow to blow out the Air Passages and wipe it off and keep on spraying, ill try that with this oil stuff and see if it works.. good thinking..! Thanks for reminding me Bob.


----------



## Mr Mike

Things didn't go as fast as I would have liked today, I had to run and get supplies I thought I had on hand like.. Common clean up stuff and my pop up canopy for shade.
After I got that handled I started prepping the bed by wiping it down with acetone to remove any remaining oils - so the tape and primer will adhere well. Finally about 1:30 pm I started tapping which took me over two hours to properly tape off and get ready for primer. The truck races started at 5:00 pm so I had to wait till after we got home to prime it..




Man, thought taping this bed off would be a breeze - Nope my age is beginning to show..
One of the things that I'm thrilled about is how nice the ways came out with the extra effort, It helps encourage me to do the best job I can.



Two coats of primer completed, Tomorrow I will lightly sand then re-prime and paint. The center of the bed will be a dark gray matching the
stand and chip tray and a low sheen white for the rest of the bed. If all goes well I should have the Bed and supports done tomorrow.


----------



## mikey

She looks great, Mike! The ways look awesome, too. It has been very cool to watch as you learn and experiment with this project. That's what I love about this hobby - it helps us to learn and grow. When a hobby machinist says, "I can do that", he very likely can.


----------



## Mr Mike

mikey said:


> She looks great, Mike! The ways look awesome, too. It has been very cool to watch as you learn and experiment with this project. That's what I love about this hobby - it helps us to learn and grow. When a hobby machinist says, "I can do that", he very likely can.



Hey Mikey.

Well its certainly nice having allot of folks around with cool tricks up there sleeves... I definitely appreciate all the help I'm getting from You, Bob, La, Glen and everyone thats for sure. Thank you for sharing your knowledge..!


----------



## Mr Mike

I got the bed completed.. The new spray guns worked out just ok with the PGP oil paint. The paint was a 2500 fast dry deep base, the Orifice was to small 1.0 on the detail gun for the viscosity of paint - that however worked really well for the Dark Gray because I needed it to be slow and accurate. But for the white I had to switch to the big gun for the second coat which was to slow - but a little faster with the 1.4 orifice, knew I should have gone with the 1.8 oh well.

I also switched and used the hi gloss white, because when I read the directions for the low sheen paint, It stated dry to touch after 4 hours and additional coats after 24 hours, I am doing this out doors so I had to pass on it.

The supports need more work before they are ready for paint, so I just did the bed today. There is orange peel - but it helps hide some of the imperfections in the bed. The paint job came out pretty Ok but ill use the 1.8 on the supports and see how that goes... If it goes well Ill give it a thumbs up using these guns with this paint, If not then Ill buy a hand held airless to do the pedestals and chip tray.

I did not do the testing I would normally do with a new paint elixir I'm not familiar with.. I just got very lucky the paint was forgiving - I did ask the paint people at PGP if there would be an Issue using a 1.0 orifice detail gun, they told me it would be slow but should be ok, The flow knob was wide open air at 25 Psi - there was no sputter or spiting and was going on even, but it felt more like air brushing then painting.

I inspected it after a couple hrs of drying, Its smooth all around with no dull dry looking spots so If it passed the fingernail test Friday I think we're golden.




For those wondering how I got a nice crisp paint line between the Dark Grey and White without taping, thats the reason for the 10" long bolts, They stand atop saw horse's without any obstruction to the ground so there is no blow back of the paint to contaminate the previous color. as long as your not putting it on so thick that it runs this will be the natural result.


----------



## Laytonnz

Nice work! Looks good, I had the same issue with a 1.5 and added some turps and turned the psi up on the compressor,  I got more overspray but had a decent fan.


----------



## Mr Mike

Laytonnz said:


> Nice work! Looks good, I had the same issue with a 1.5 and added some turps and turned the psi up on the compressor,  I got more overspray but had a decent fan.



Hi La...

My first issue is there are no coating instructions on the can.. Just warnings all over  - which clearly states for professional use only, not for residential use. Obviously I should not be using it - But I did tell them I needed a paint that would hold up to Oils and Coolants for use on a Lathe... Not much info online either.

I'm doing the best I can here with what little info I have.. I got my fingers crossed that the 1.8 will have better results, I also have a 2.0 gun I could use - wonder if I should just try that instead..?
The nice thing about this paint is the re-coat time which has to be done within 2.5 hours, and dries to the touch in under 30 minutes.. the primer I used can be top coated almost immediately but before 24hrs, nice open window..!

The negative about this paint is you really need a spray booth for the fumes or be out doors in a large open area - Nasty stuff - regular mask wont help, Definitely not in a Garage.


----------



## Laytonnz

What i would do is download the MSDS - material data safety sheet,  it should give all relevant info on product use.

If you can't find the MSDS online maybe ask the paint rep, they should have one in store.  It should tell you how much you can thin for spray application. 

That's nice and quick the stuff I used took ages! Over a week to be recoatable at probably. .. uhh 12 degrees during the day 5 overnight.


----------



## Mr Mike

Laytonnz said:


> What i would do is download the MSDS - material data safety sheet,  it should give all relevant info on product use.
> 
> If you can't find the MSDS online maybe ask the paint rep, they should have one in store.  It should tell you how much you can thin for spray application.
> 
> That's nice and quick the stuff I used took ages! Over a week to be recoatable at probably. .. uhh 12 degrees during the day 5 overnight.



Hi La..
I did search for and found a PDF with directions for the paint.. and it stated under the thinning options --> should not need thinning... lol
Well I'm sol for now paint wise so - the painting portion of the project is coming to a halt till I can figure out my painting issues.. I love the Bright White color but hate the gloss...

I'm currently looking for a Matt, Low Sheen, Eggshell finish to redo my lathe bed.. I'm just not happy with the results..

*I have my want list regardless of whether its realistic or not.*
1. Matt finish.
2. Can be sprayed.   ( Even if I need to buy a better Pro Detail Gun )
3. Can be re-coated in less then 8 hrs.
4. between 30 to 60 minutes dry to the touch.   ( I have no choice but to spray out doors ) so I'm at the mercy of the weather.
5. None yellowing Bright White.   ( most oils yellow over time ) but they have modified ones that don't.
6. Water cleanup preferred but not required.   ( They make an oil modified water based paint ) I'm looking into this.
7. Oil & Hot Chip Resistant.

See I'm not asking for much


----------



## Mr Mike

Hello peoples,
I'm having to go back over my lathe paint choices and redo some work, In a bind I settled for spraying a gloss coat on the bed... I made the exception because I thought I would be wasting a weekend - I know to stick to my guns, I didn't and now I'm not happy with my choice. So I need to take a couple steps back for peace of mind and deal with it now rather then later. My painting portion of the project is on hold till I solve the paint Issue. Ill still be working on other stuff.

The bed supports are going back in the for a 2nd electrolytic bath, They are in good enough condition that I could prime and paint them, but I would like to do some more electrolytic testing.

I'm doing the supports individually, one will be with 1/3 cup Sodium Carbonate and the other with just plain tap water. Both will have close to a 1.5 amps flow, to see what difference the washing soda makes if any.




Lots of pitting in the area of both supports where right angles meet.





Fresh tap water only to start and you can see the scrubbing bubbles at work. 5 pm.





Added 1/3 cup Sodium Carbonate and mixed to get to about 1.5 amps, withing 15 minutes the water turned colors. 5:30 pm





Elapsed time 2 hours 7 pm. You can see a froth starting to build.




Elapsed time 5.5 hours 10:30 pm.




This is a very interesting photo below. Billions of micro sized bubbles can be seen coming of the bottom and top of the bed support. ( site restriction on photos like this are a shame ), Not all but some bubbles below the anode are carrying what looks like rust.. None of the bubbles above the anode seem to have this feature.

I also have some cool video showing this in action, To bad it cant be posted directly to this site.




Elapsed time 14 hours 7 am. amps read 1.55 - Dont know why yet but the amps seem to drop then rais over time.



Elapsed time 22 hours 3 pm. The photos below show the before and after, the support came out looking great.. but there are still small black pits still left. I have no complaints and really feel this is supirour in every way to harsh chemical to remove rust as long as there are no time constraints.

I have a couple other ideas in mind - maybe pairing this and Evapo-Rust... Use electrolysis to remove all the massive rust and Evapo-Rust to get the remainder... I cant test that just yet or on these supports, but will in a future test.




Before the second electrolysis session. The first run was with the lathe bed.



The after shot looks Great, No visible rust just tiny black heavily pitted areas.
Its ready for paint but I have one more test with these supports - Id like to see if an extended length of time in electrolysis will remove the black from the pitted areas. Ill do both supports for that 2 day test. the total amount of time the supports were subjected to electrolysis at that point will be about 3 1/2 days.




This concludes the test for an electrolysis bath with 1/3 cup of Sodium Carbonate. The next support will be done with just tape water but at about the same amp flow. It may be a wast of time.. and may have no desirable effect cosmetically in the second bed supports outcome, If thats the case then we will know to use the Sodium Carbonate only as a current flow regulator of sorts.


----------



## Mr Mike

Second bed support, tap water only. electrolysis started at 4 pm.

The tank was completely  cleaned and filled with fresh tap water,  you can see an orange glow begin to start
around the second lathe bed support with in just a couple minutes.




Elapsed time 30 minutes, the whole tank is orange.




Elapsed time 4 1/2 hours  8:30 pm. The amps have dropped, and a thick froth is building very similar to the previous time laps lathe bed support post.
the water in the tank is clearing up as seen in the next photo.







Elapsed time 9 hours 1 am. Amps have gone down and there is very little change.
The water has cleared even more, to the point where you can see thru it.
If I had to bet on it i'd say my parts are as done..! That will have to be checked out in another test. 







Elapsed time 15 hours 7 am. Amps have gone down more, The water is not as clear this morning.
You can see the rear Anode in the photo below this one taken at the same time, but not much past that. The froth looks normal as compared to all others.







Elapsed time 22.5 hours 2:30 pm. Amps have gone up some.
The froth is the same as expected, the water is getting cloudy as seen in the photo below this one..
You can just make out the rear Anode.







This support was done using plain water.




This support was done using Sodium Carbonate. There is virtually no difference between the two.




This ends this time laps posting, I've had fun and learned allot from doing this, but now this has left me with even more questions unanswered. will this madness ever end


----------



## Bob Korves

Mr Mike said:


> Second bed support, tap water only. electrolysis started at 4 pm.
> 
> The tank was completely  cleaned and filled with fresh tap water,  you can see an orange glow begin to start
> around the second lathe bed support with in just a couple minutes.
> 
> View attachment 243431
> 
> 
> Elapsed time 30 minutes, the whole tank is orange.
> 
> View attachment 243430
> 
> 
> Elapsed time 4 1/2 hours  8:30 pm. The amps have dropped, and a thick froth is building very similar to the previous time laps lathe bed support post.
> the water in the tank is clearing up as seen in the next photo.
> 
> View attachment 243428
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 243429
> 
> 
> This is a time laps Post please check back later for more updates on this tap water only electrolysis test.


I did not know that you could do electrolysis using just tap water.  Clear, pure water is a poor conductor.  I thought an electrolyte was needed for better current flow.  You certainly seem to be proving otherwise.
http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/swamp/docs/cwt/guidance/3130en.pdf


----------



## Mr Mike

Bob Korves said:


> I did not know that you could do electrolysis using just tap water.  Clear, pure water is a poor conductor.  I thought an electrolyte was needed for better current flow.  You certainly seem to be proving otherwise.
> http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/swamp/docs/cwt/guidance/3130en.pdf



Hi Bob our tap water is not even close to pure here, besides being very hard water they add chemicals like fluoride and other goodies, and depending water softeners will add trace amounts too.
If you look at the post with the Sodium Carbonate you can see my anodes ( 43" steel bars ) are farther away from the bed support - almost flush with the edge of the tank, I had to move them closer to the bed support get the amp flow up in this run.

It is true that the purer the water, the higher the resistance, making it harder for electrons to flow. So your thinking is absolutely correct - The more electrolyte there is in the water the more conductive it is.


----------



## Mr Mike

We are back up to speed on the project. I used acetone to quickly to remove the uncured paint back to bare metal.
I then used filling primer and sanded a couple times to improve the finish quality, and bring the lathe back to a near new condition.




It didn't take to long. maybe a couple of hours to get the bed ready for painting.




You can see in the not yet sanded photo below the actual condition of the bed support.
This was the worst side of them all, but both bed supports had pitting issues on all four sides.




This is the after sanding photo below, and the product I used to smooth out and level the lathe bed, and both bed supports.
You can see by the amount of primer left after block sanding how bad the pitted areas are... 
This primer was only use to fill and sand, another thiner harder primer was used for painting because the
filler primer will not dry as hard.




I used a washer seen below, that was close in size to support seats to cut the tape, making it
easy to peal off... then only have to sand the tiny area left painted.




The Lathe bed and supports came out looking almost factory fresh. There is still a few pitted areas left that I didn't tidy up.
I wasn't shooting for that new pristine car look, more like - how long has that lathe been sitting in an unopened box look. 




These are the products I used in the photo below. I wanted to try, but failed at using a more robust product.
I returned to using what I'm familiar and have been very successful using in the past on other projects. so don't laugh. 
They are oil based, but may or may not be able hold up to lathe abuse. 




To finished the lathe bed and supports I used. 
2 Coats of filling primer and sanding between coats, about two hours wait.
After the final sanding I used 1 Coat of the thiner automotive primer.
15 minutes after priming I used 2 coats of the flat white, 15 minutes apart.
Then 15 minutes after the final white coat, I used 3 coats of the satin clear, 15 minutes apart.
Painting out doors but not in direct sunlight, It will take a few days to get to hard,
The filling primer did a good job of filling the pits, machine marks and small dings.




Unfortunately the photo below does not show how nice it turned out, just the progress.





So basically after an additional week I'm back where I left off at...  But I'm much happier I stopped an took the time to get it right. was it necessary, probably not but every now and again my OCD kicks in.

Next is the part I'm kinda dreading, the pedestals and chip pan are next.. Actually the chip pan looks to be in great shape, but theres allot of rust at the bottom of the pedestals and the right door is in bad shape.
I'm probably gonna have to get some help with the door issue. I could bend the top of the door back but the bottom is a whole other story. It has a compound bend in it that I'm not sure can be straitened.
I'll remove the door and take it to a sheet metal shop, have it fixed or replaced if I cant repair it my self.

At least painting these wont be to big an issue, I have a full size airless to paint them up lickety-split with the Dark Grey paint.. First Ill clean them up and remove all hardware out of them, and see just how bad they are.
Hmm what to do about the rust...


----------



## mikey

She's looking beautiful, Mike! 

The base cabinets are a bit big for an ERR bath, although it can certainly be done. I think I would opt for a brass brush in a 4" grinder and get most of the rust off, then hit it with Phosphoric Acid spray and while keeping it wet, finish by hand. Then I would prime it and then do the bodywork.

If the door will come off the right side pedestal, it shouldn't be too hard to flatten it.


----------



## Mr Mike

Today I dilled out the spot welds and removed the door from the right cabinet, you can see in the photo how bad the compound bend is.
I'll run it by a sheet metal shop and see what they say.. its a 1/16 inch piece, I'm pretty sure it will have to be fabricated. 




I drilled out the spot weld just enough to get the door off just in case I can save it. if so I'll Mig weld it back on.




I have a 20 ton press, but I don't have plates large enough to press this out.. I'll check and see if the steel yard has some scraps.




Other than the door.. the right cabinet pedestal is in pretty decent shape... less rust then I would have guessed.


----------



## Laytonnz

I would try beat that out... clamp it to something simiar size and go to town?


----------



## Bob Korves

Mr Mike said:


> Today I dilled out the spot welds and removed the door from the right cabinet, you can see in the photo how bad the compound bend is.
> I'll run it by a sheet metal shop and see what they say.. its a 1/16 inch piece, I'm pretty sure it will have to be fabricated.
> 
> View attachment 243901
> 
> 
> I drilled out the spot weld just enough to get the door off just in case I can save it. if so I'll Mig weld it back on.
> 
> View attachment 243902
> 
> 
> I have a 20 ton press, but I don't have plates large enough to press this out.. I'll check and see if the steel yard has some scraps.
> 
> View attachment 243903
> 
> 
> Other than the door.. the right cabinet pedestal is in pretty decent shape... less rust then I would have guessed.
> 
> View attachment 243904


The sheet metal can definitely be brought flat again.  The thing you must keep in mind is that the metal must be shrunk where it has been stretched.  Any additional stretching caused by pounding on it will only make things ultimately worse.


----------



## wa5cab

Not that I need to do it, but how do you shrink metal?


----------



## Mr Mike

wa5cab said:


> Not that I need to do it, but how do you shrink metal?


I'm guessing a few heat up and slow cool down cycles, while you reshape it. your kinda annealing the steel at the same time to relive the stress hardening that builds up and shrinking it back some after tooling it. Just guessing of course, its what we use to do with copper pipe so we could bend it without breaking it.


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  Makes sense


----------



## Mr Mike

mikey said:


> She's looking beautiful, Mike!
> 
> The base cabinets are a bit big for an ERR bath, although it can certainly be done. I think I would opt for a brass brush in a 4" grinder and get most of the rust off, then hit it with Phosphoric Acid spray and while keeping it wet, finish by hand. Then I would prime it and then do the bodywork.



So I found a different brand of Phosphoric acid at the big box store, it stated exactly on the label for rust removal and inhibits flash rusting.. " all that you stated to a T " Figure this is a good time to give it a shot as you recommended.
I also got some rust transformer for the interior of the cabinet floor - and the top of the cabinet had some rubber feeling compound between it and the chip tray so I got Rust-oleum rubber spray. I've got a spot picked out for the lathe, I'd like to get the bases ready this week so I can get the lathe bed mounted - and back to work on it...




I used a wire brush on the grinder to knock off all the rust scale, then fallowing the directions I used a paint brush and the full strength solution to coat and kept wet while scrubbing to loosen the remains.. which I did for about 15 minutes with a bristle brush. And already its looking better after the acid bath, the rust is starting to blacken some after a couple of hours - so far so good..

Original rust found on the bottom right cabinet..




After knocking off all the loose rust with a wire brush on a grinder.




Photo below is after scrubbing with phosphoric acid. Per directions after scrubbing, leave it over night then rinse, let it dry and primer it.

I also scrubbed the lower 3 inches of the cabinet sides to see what effect it would have on the paint.. If phosphoric acid has no effect on the painted surfaces then I'll treat the small amount of rust in the cabinet interior as well, I don't want to strip the interior paint off, just etch, prim and paint it..




Photo below is after 12 Hours, Looks like the acid is kicking some rust butt.




This photo is at 17 hours, after being rinsed and dried. The rust is either gone or has been neutralized.  
The paint on the cabinet sides was etched some but still in-tacked.




Lol Just a few rust pits can barely be seen in the newly primed photo below  
The center beam however is in excellent condition, just a single pitted area in the center of the 1/4" thick bar.

My OCD says I should bondo this and make it look smooth.. fortunately I have a bad memory so I just need to restrain my self till its Upright.  




The bent door from this cabinet is on hold for now as it's not essential to readying the cabinets.

Id love some advice / opinions about leg levelers.. I would like to have the stands off the cement a couple inches and be able to accurately level out the stand. The support beam in the middle of each stand has a 1/2 inch diameter hole at the front and rear of each stand, can I attach leg levelers those points or is that only for direct mounting to concrete..?

Edit: I called Logan Act. There tech support will call me on Monday.
        Interestingly they make Mining safety equipment as there main business now.


----------



## mikey

Looks like the Phos. Acid worked well, Mike, although its hard to tell from pics. If you have a lot of white crystals you can spray it with diluted PA and wipe it off, let it dry and then prime and paint.

Hard to tell how thick the support bar is; looks to be 1/4"? If so, its probably a bit thin; the existing bar looks bent up at the ends. Personally, I would cut off that bar and weld on a 3/8" to 1/2" thick bar and then mount levelers or leveling casters. I prefer Carrymaster leveling casters myself.


----------



## Mr Mike

Today I ran into a little issue.. I have the right pedestal set aside all ready to prime, sand and paint, But the left pedestal I can't lift onto the work bench to gut the mechanicals out, So I figured I would run out get some supplies - and make a wooden gantry and mount a simple rope pulley to it..

Off to Harbor Freight I go..  I got the stuff I need and headed out to the big box store for wood. I'm pretty good at just getting what I need and leave but out the corner of my Eye I spot a the new Vulcan 215 Mig welder in the 3 day sale tent for 200.00 off. I've been looking at CL over the last couple months to find a replacement for my Lincoln sp175 welder thats 20+ yrs old with no luck. And every-time I'm at HF I keep looking at this new Vulcan line which they claim is equal to Lincoln and Miller for half the cost - and each time I just tell my self its HF it has to be junk. I've looked at a couple reviews and read on a couple sites that these welders were designed by a real engineer from Lincoln, so while I was there I asked to see a manger and told them my concerns and asked if it was really designed by a Lincoln Engineer -  without hesitation he said yes it was.

Now I now your laughing in your chair so hard tears are coming out, But HF is trying to improve there brand with some new tool lines.. and it just so happens that they jacked a Lincoln engineer to design their new Vulcan welder line-up, so if there are any hiccups or issues with this first run of machines then all the R&D they put into this new line will go up in flames, along with there comparison claims of equality with Red and Blue.  

If you thought you were done crying - oh no, theres more.. It was priced like that because it was an open box ( Store calls it a rental ) that some one bought and returned - It gets even better.. hope you have a towel - because it was a return and was price to move, It only has a 5 day return policy. I went trough the contents of the box pulling everything out and checking against what should be there - checked the welder over and all the contents, which were still in their plastic bags... The accessories box still taped which means this welder appears to have never been used, Or the person but it all back tit for tat. 

I only have 5 days to make sure theres no issue, so I head strait home to set it up for some test welds. I hook everything up, don my helmet open gas valve... Nope.. my tanks empty, and go figure its the weekend. I already know the welding stores are closed.. so I hit the net looking to find a place to refill on a weekend, I searched and made calls with no luck... I had one last idea to try out hydroponic stores. I called another dozen places and finally found one that has CO2, Unfortunately they only carry 5-10 and 20lb filled tanks.

Knowing I only have today and tomorrow to test this out or bring it back, I went ahead and bought the 20lb filled tank went home and did some test welds, I soon found out after only a couple of welds that its easily better then my old SP175 because of the newer technology it has like Pre and Post gas, Synergy setup, 110v or 220v, a better duty cycle to name a few. The only con I see right off the batt on this welder is the torch which seems a bit flimsy, real light and looks like it would break after a few falls, the work clamps good - knobs all rotate smooth, and case feels sturdy.

Last but not least, The test welds I did looked just as good as with my Lincoln but now I should be able to do single pass on 1/4" with out stopping to cool down every few minutes because I have more head room.  

Unfortunately I wasted a whole day running around calling to get this welder tested out. I had to because I would not have any time during the week to do this. And I really need a new welder for a future fence project I've been putting off. 




So it was a good day all in all but I got nothing done on the Lathe today ..!
Tomorrow Ill build a gantry and get back to work & be ready next weekend to paint the pedestals and chip tray hopefully.

I usually get allot done on weekends so I just thought I'd show you why I didn't this weekend.


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## Mr Mike

Not looking for sympathy "crap happens".. Just giving an update on my inability to get anything done on my Restoration project..
Things are still going... just really slow. Late Sunday night somebody broke in my truck an stole all my tools, I'm an on call service tech so the tools I use for work are the same tools I use for home..

They new what they were doing and didn't open doors to trip the alarm, So yesterday and today I have been running all over replacing things, many Items had to be replaced by purchasing on-line.

Police really cant help - pawn shops wont give out any info, If you do an Insurance claim then they raise your rates.. Is what it is..

Unfortunately the snug top cover was down but not locked because the wife needed to barrow an extension cord, I forgot to put it back and lock it. they wouldn't have gotten away with so much but I had a portable dolly in the back -  with every thing neatly stored in milk style crates.




On the plus side I almost have the gantry done..) That way I don't have to break my back lifting the pedestals.
It will pick up the small pedestal, but not the large one using a two wheel pulley system so I need to make or buy a four wheeled one..
All thats needed now to finish the Gantry is to add a removable Front and Rear lateral cross member at the base and 45 Deg bracing between the upper corner gussets.





The nice thing about this project Is I get to make all kinds custom ancillary support devices.


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## mikey

Wow, that truly sucks. I'm sorry to hear about this, Mike. Karma will take care of those bozos. 

Have you spoken to your insurance agent? If they increase your premiums because of something like this then maybe they aren't the right company to be receiving you money.


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## Mr Mike

mikey said:


> Wow, that truly sucks. I'm sorry to hear about this, Mike. Karma will take care of those bozos.
> 
> Have you spoken to your insurance agent? If they increase your premiums because of something like this then maybe they aren't the right company to be receiving you money.



No I haven't talked to my Insurance agent, the company I work for offered to split the bill with me thou - including a new microwave alarm system which will sound an alert if their too close, and go off if they touch the truck.

The last time one of my vehicles was broke into I called the police and had to go down to the station to fill out a report, just so I could file a claim with the insurance and by the time your done you wast an entire days pay and your deductible you'll get less then half + lost wages = not worth the aggravation..

Tonight I gutted the Large pedestal - definitely not an original motor and all the rubber support bushings and pulley bearings are shot, Glad I didn't test run the lathe at all... )


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## mikey

Yeah, well, it still sucks. Glad your company is helping, though.


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## Mr Mike

The inside of the cabinet and all the internals are in pretty good shape, I've been lucky so far - I haven't seen any metal parts thus far screaming for replacement at me. Some hardware, all belts, pillow block bearings and rubber bushing will need replacement.

An additional aluminum motor mount adapter or extension plate was added at some point, of no useful purpose that I can tell. Maybe to add to the length a half inch because of incorrect hardware on hand.

Visible rust is thin and confined to bare metal parts mostly.




I attempted to disassemble the counter shaft pulley assembly but the counter shaft pulley and four step pulley "hex set screws" are frozen...
I sprayed them with some PB and will let it soak in over night - Fingers crossed.

I have the parts breakdown book but it doesn't call out any sizes for parts, the bearings are a bit pricey on the website at 48.00 each, but the belts are very reasonable. Im sure I can find a suitable replacement bearing after I press them out and size them.

There were no rubber bushings listed on the Logan Site.. Hopefully I can make / Find some.




After soaking in PB, pulley assemblies and bearings came apart without much effort.




An Aluminum counter shaft pulley was in the mix which kinda surprised me, red arrow.
The pillow block bearings required allot less force to remove then I was expecting.


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## Mr Mike

In order to disassemble and press out the bearings I used PB spray, the pulleys and counter shaft pulleys are keyed and only required the use of a rubber mallet to remove from the 3/4" shafts.




It didn't take much effort to de-rust and clean the Parts, Electrolysis, purple power and fine Scotch bright pads.
I also picked up new bearings for the pillow blocks - The bearings are Deep Grove R12-ZZ  at $8.18 Each.




The photo of these two 4 Step Pulleys shows off the power of Electrolytic rust removal, Not days.. just four Hrs @ 3.5 Amps is all it took.
I was going to do a test between Electrolysis and Evapo-Rust, But there would be no advantage to using Evapo-Rust with these parts.. Once you get the hang of it - electrolysis will be your favorite go to method for cleaning & rust removal - it requires no pre-cleaning, no De-greasing and little effort. 




The first bearing I attempted to remove with a 12 ton press was moving with a poping noise.. as if it would release and move only when it reached a threshold that exceeded its resistance to move after a couple of press strokes. To reduce the chance of galling the pillow blocks, I soaking them with the PB spray for about 30 minutes.. then the bearings were removed with little effort.




These Pillow blocks may have been the perfect parts to try Evapo-Rust on but after I soaked them with Purple Power to clean and degrease them, It took less then 5 minutes each with a Scotch Bright pad to finish them off. I did the same with the 2 Shafts and counter pulley which came out looking nice too after touching up the missing paint.




Things were moving along nice today, tomorrow Ill try and finish the remaining motor assembly portion and begin creating the mold ill need to replace the rubber motor mounts.


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## Mr Mike

Today I finished the remaining motor cabinet parts, the Upper & Lower Pulley mounts, Motor pulley, Tension handle and Bushing retainers.
The parts were in pretty good shape with a small amount rust. I used Purple Power to thoroughly clean, and Phosphoric Acid to remove most the rust and etch the intact paint - then a light primer coat, fallowed by 2 coats of Rustoleum Dark Gray.













There are a couple other parts that were done too but didn't get into the photos, Everything came out great.. Most all Motor cabinet parts have been completed, leaving the motor cabinet next up for paint prep, The storage cabinet is already prepped for paint, 

I also started on the Negative mold creation for the rubber bushings, I have all the necessary measurements and the 2 part urethane to create the Pour Mold. I'm going to use the lathe to create the Negative from a blank of Durhams rock hard water putty, because the original bushing is deformed.




Another good days run.. I'm starting to get a good amount of finished parts sitting in the spare room to cure.. Love it.


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## Mr Mike

I thought someone might find this next couple photos interesting along with some info, I do allot of testing while i'm messing around with Electrolysis but not all ways sharing the boring stuff.. I've literally got hundreds of photos that don't make it on here because it would make this forum thread about this restore project many many times as longer.. But I think this tidbit of info has some value to it.

This two step pulley was pulled from the Electrolysis tank exactly 1 hour into the rust removal bath, the top was covered with rust to start with.
I haven't confirmed this yet but it looks like the rust is being attacked at the edges of the thick rust pockets, all the rust around the circumference has been removed leaving the heaver pockets . all I did was use a nylon brush to lightly brush away a thin scum layer revealing the remaining rust pockets.

Original I was thinking that bubbles were originating behind the rust and separating it from the metal, Now I'm thinking the Electrolysis is attacking and consuming the rust its self.

I am probably taking this whole electrolysis thing to seriously, But I've almost got this rust removal down to a science now, and every time I change a variable I learn something new, I really wish I could find some official literature on the subject that would go in to detail about hydrogen embitterment.. because Id hate to find out down the road that I goofed up when its too late..

Ive read some stories of springs breaking while under tension while doing electrolysis and nuts & bolts shattering on bridges after being subjected to Electrolysis, Kinda scary..!




This next photo are for people that are trying to figure out how much amperage is going into the tank using there old transformer charger.
you have seen me use my cheap amp meter to get and show an amp figure with it..

I knew Id be doing some Electrolysis this weekend so brought my AC/DC amp meter home from work, you can see in the photo that my cheap AC meter reads almost exactly half the amp value my DC amp meter is registering.

If you get a cheap $13.00 amp meter from Harbor fright, then you just need to double the value shown and you will be close. I verified this by changing variables in the electrolysis tank and in every case the value displayed on the cheap ac meter was always half of the DC amp meter.. I'm guessing that only half the AC sign-wave is being rectified leaving a pulsed AC that never reverses, that might explain why the cheap AC meter can read it. But it also makes me wonder if the DC amp meter readings are good.

Ill be doing more testing as time goes by and to try and figure out how to get an automatic charger to work without having a battery in series.


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## mikey

My impression of hydrogen embrittlement is that it is temporary and the effects of it are gone in a few weeks. I have nothing authoritative to back this up but my experience says it is not a real issue to be overly concerned about. I've done my 75# anvil with ERR and have hit red hot steel on it multiple times since then with no signs of cracking, chipping or breaking. I've also done reel mower blades with ERR and no issues with chipping, early dulling or breakage. Good enough for me.


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## Mr Mike

mikey said:


> My impression of hydrogen embrittlement is that it is temporary and the effects of it are gone in a few weeks. I have nothing authoritative to back this up but my experience says it is not a real issue to be overly concerned about. I've done my 75# anvil with ERR and have hit red hot steel on it multiple times since then with no signs of cracking, chipping or breaking. I've also done reel mower blades with ERR and no issues with chipping, early dulling or breakage. Good enough for me.



Hi Mike.. I hope your right..!
I have read ( unofficial papers ) its a temporary effect that dissipates over time. And the effects can be mitigated by introducing heat.

lol it would be a Wile E Coyote moment for me if the lathe *Bed* broke in half while I was using it..) ACME LATHE CO.

Edit: Your not going to believe this, but there's a real ACME LATHE Business in India...


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## wa5cab

Yeah, and big 'ole Acme's. too.


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## Mr Mike

I am going to try and recreate the rubber bushing using a blank made from rock hard water putty.
I've used the stuff in the past and it is Rock hard putty - Its also only 3 bucks, so it warrants a try.




After the putty set up I removed it from the cup, I started drilling a small hole in the center and noted that the innards weren't hard yet. I put it in the oven at 150 deg for 3 hrs to dry it out..

Again I drilled out the center to mount a bolt so the lathe would have something to hold onto so I could turn the blank.




This Rubber bushing was the best of the bunch, so I used it as my model along with a metal bushing support, The rock hard bushing came out pretty good. Ill spray it with primer and fill the voids then seal it.

I didn't run into any problems turning rock hard putty to size on the lathe, The motor mount carriage bar was 3/8 but I drilled out the new blank 1/64" smaller for a snug fit, I have no experience with mold making so it would be great to get it right on the first try - Fingers crossed.




As you can see..  The hole in the bushing is stretched out and deformed




If I had to, I could just put the bushings back in and rotate them 180 Deg using the opposite side of the hole, but there hard as rock, cracked and need to be replaced, if not for the extra fun and feeling of accomplishment when I'm done.




Tomorrow Ill try and make a negative mold using a playable OOMOO 30 sores silicon rubber, its intended use is to make exact copies of item and be reusable.. the product is from a company called SMOOTH ON,  I watched a couple videos of this stuff in action and it looks promising - I also need to find out what hardness ( Sores ) of 2 part urethane ill need to get to make my rubber bushings out of..


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## Bamban

Can you use a hockey puck?


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## Mr Mike

Bamban said:


> Can you use a hockey puck?



Hello Sir, Funny you should mention Hockey Puck.. I don't remember where I've heard of a puck being used in such a manner, but I have heard of them being used as levelers for heavy equipment and all kinds of other uses..

I probably could create a bushing out of a Hockey Puck if I could find one with the right hardness and density. There are other rubber components missing or in bad shape on this lathe too, and since I cant buy them I thought I'd give it a shot and try an make them.

Thanks for the heads up thou..

*Edit:* The rubber bushings can still be purchased from Logan Actuator Co. As of 10-24-2017 They have them in stock for about 14.00 each.


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## Mr Mike

I made and painted a four compartment mold box today in hopes of being able to pour some really awesome, cool ( because I made them ) new bushings for my lathe in the coming days. The Rock Hard Putty bushing is ready to make a mold from, and if all goes well I'll start pouring tomorrow to create negatives from it, I bet a few of you guys out there would have used a 3D printer to make four bushing to mold negatives from in a single pour.






I started working on the Motor Cabinet removing as much rust as I could with a twisted wire brush. then scrubbed it with Phosphoric acid, I'll let it sit on the cabinet over night before rinsing it off. I wil post a photo or two under this one showing the end result of the rusted bottom tomorrow.




The phosphoric acid did an excellent job removing rust, the motor cabinet has allot more pot holes then the storage cabinet.
Again the 1/4 inch beam at the center of the cabinet has much less damage then the 1/8" plate its attached to. 




All primed up and no where to go.. Both cabinets are mechanically and cosmetically in good shape excluding the floor pans and should paint up nicely. 

Tomorrow I'm going to paint the bottom of both cabinets with a durable coating ( I'm thinking a bed liner paint ) so this cant happen again, and set them aside to thoroughly dry before putting them on carpeted 4 wheel dollies. If all goes well I'll paint the chip pan this weekend so I can test out the HVLP pressure pot spray gun I got a Harbor Freight, and learn about its quirks an settings.


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## Mr Mike

I got up early and called Logan Actuator, I talked to an engineer and asked about the 1/4 beam at the bottom of each cabinet.. I wanted to know if the 5/8" holes in the bar are for securing the cabinet to cement or if they can be used to mount leg levelers on - He said both, He also stated that royal machine levelers should be used, I've goggled them and their a bit pricey but worth it.. I think this is the one Royal Machine Mount.

I told him that I was restoring a lathe, and told him I was getting ready to make some rubber bushings for the motor mounts.. lol he rattled off the dimensions and the part number as if he just made them and said they have them in stock. I'm thinking damn I've made the mold already..! we talked very briefly so I didn't get allot of info..

LOL on the plus side I did pour the first of four molds today, its nice to know if I fail.. I can still buy them 

I do not recommend this particular smooth on oomoo 30 silicone rubber mold mix, because it is way to viscus to determine when to stop pouring, And that should have been the easy part because I made the box to the same hight as the part so I would know when to stop.. and It was near impossible to not introduce bubbles during the mixing phase, to be fair I did buy it at a craft store and it clearly states on the instruction which are in the box that it should be used very soon because it has a short unopened shelf life.

Never the less I'm excited to see how this turns out.


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## Mr Mike

Today I painted the bottom of the cabinets with a rubberized paint that I will top coat with Dark Grey when I am doing the final spray finish..

Sorry I know this whole restoration process seems to be taking a long time..! Half of it is Me - I'm slow, and the other half is just the massive amount prep work it takes to get things ready for painting, And I only have a couple hrs a day to do it.. their getting close thou and will be ready soon.

The rubber mold is coming along fine, and should be done tomorrow.. It takes 6 hrs to cure each pour so I can only do two a day, and one of Negative pours was a failure so I have to redo it.

I also added 11 inches to the width of the Gantry this evening, I was a bit too conservative when I first built it at 37" It's now 48" wide, That way it will be easier to lift the cabinets from their sides to an upright position, lol I see HF is having a sale on an electric winch.. Hmm 

Before I can paint these up I'll need to make a few simple Tee drying stands to keep them steady and off the ground while the paint cures. then I'll put on the levelers and start to reassemble all thats done up to the lathe bed..  After this is done I expect the hard part will begin.

It's amazing how many life skills it takes to do a project like this. Or I should say to make it easier. Ever since I was a kid I was always tearing things apart to see what makes them tick, and its not that you need to have a multitude of skills in todays times, you can pickup what you need using the net, just like I learned how to do Electrolysis. But I cant imagine doing this without aids such as an engine hoist to move stuff or a press that I use on the kids cars.

In any case great respect goes out to all the people that have already done this.


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## Nogoingback

No need to apologize for anything.  You're doing a huge amount of work and you're doing it well.  That lathe will be 
a real credit to you when it's finished.


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## Mr Mike

Stuff I completed today..

The Negative mold is complete, there are a few small bubbles in each cell.. I'd give it a C+ should be fine.
I had one disaster pour that I removed and re-poured, The funny thing is, I thought it was going to be the good one.






For any of you that are thinking about trying out or getting a new Harbor Freight Vulcan welder..
I'm a hobby welder and have never done it professionally, I have only welded maybe a couple thousand joints like this in my whole life. This is my first Inverter welder too, Not to mention I'm real rusty since its been about a year since I last welded anything. My first welder was an Lincoln SP-175 plus, It was heavier but smaller then this Vulcan. This Vulcan welder seems to be built well in both fit and finish and I had no issues at all from the first weld to the last so I'd say with some more practice I'll have a real winner here..

Oh and the Vulcan Helmet I bought at the same time is every bit as comfortable as my old Lincoln helmet, Its full view and works great and its cheap at $140.00

This Anchor only had 16 welds which isn't enough to make a good assessment from and its guna take some time to get use to Pre and Post gas, I'm use to welding as soon as I pull the trigger. Now I have to anticipate when the wire will start rolling out to do a one or two second tack, so far so good thou, After I do my fence project I'll have had allot of time on this welder and be able to make a better assessment about it.


I finally got to use the new HF Vulcan welder today to build an anchor for the Gantry..
The welder was set to full auto/synergy mode in this photo, weld looks pretty decent - but I got allot of micro splatter..




Next I set the welder to manual mode and increased the gas flow to 30 cfm from 25cfm, Again an ok weld but with much less splatter.




I put a prime finish on the Anchor and attached a new Back saving device on the Gantry.
The hoist is from Harbor freight and works like a charm, Its the smallest one they carry and cost 79.00 after discount. My back will be happier.




I built the simple tee supports for the cabinets to rest on while the Paint Dries, I welded on 1/2" X 3" bolts and drilled out some 3/8" washers so I can mount this on the center beam under the cabinets to keep them off the ground.




I feel I got plenty done today, I'll be doing some paint prep tomorrow.. And if I'm lucky get something primed up.


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## Mr Mike

I started Paint Prep on the chip pan today...

First I completely scrubbed the " HE Double Hockey Stick " out of top and bottom of the chip pan with Purple Power, My favorite goto cleaner. It easily took 1-1/2 Hrs just to get all the Dirt, Oil & Gunk off.

After the chip pan was rinsed & dry I went to town on the rust with my twisted wire brush to knock off all the rust scale & sticker in the center.

I used a scraper to get the rubber coating off the underside and a metal file to remove nicks and burrs along the edges. Then I used Phosphoric acid and scrubbed the chip pan and let the sun bake it dry.. after about an hour I scrubbed and rinsed it. The chip pan came out excellent.

Edit:
To be honest, Looking back on all the work thats been done with these 3 large items... It may have been beneficial to just build an electrolysis tank for them, Before you can get at the rust you have to do a great job of De-greasing then remove Rust Scale then soak with phosphoric acid and rinse numerous times.. Then when thats all done you have to make sure to check for loose paint and by the time your done theres bound to be many spots where the paint is all but gone, really thin and may even peel down the road, as can be seen in the 3rd photo.. 

Now that you have the Items all cleaned up and ready to prime ( Yes you did a great job..! ) your still left with less then an ideal surface. You bought enough of the best primer to spray the whole project.. The question is do you was to prime a really clean but decaying surface or a factory fresh substrait.

For people that have a very small or no yard this may be the best and only option, you would be asking for nothing but trouble having a tank in your garage large enough to hold these items, which is fine... This chip pan will be in great shape for years to come if you did a great prep job.

If you have the room - Even if the the hours you spend preping the items vs the hrs to build a tank along with some post cleanup were equal, you would be " or in my case would have been " better off I believe going the tank route.. Because you end up with the ultimate prep job - just the pure substrait.

I doubt ill have to prep Items this size again anytime in the foreseeable future... But if I do, there will be a tank involved.










After all the Dirt, Oil, Rust and loose paint was removed I let the chip pan thoroughly dry, I was now ready to prime and paint it, I began assembly of the new HF HVLP pressure pot spray gun so I could knock this puppy out in a single day.

Nope not going to happen - One of the hoses.. specifically the air hose to the gun had a connector different in size from the rest.. which is fine because you wouldn't want to connect a paint hose to the air inlet on the spray gun, except the gun had an adapter mismatch.

I took the sprayer back to HF and showed them, the gal was nice enough and said sometimes these things happen ( I don't know if its just me.. but I've never had any luck with HF spray equipment ) She refunded my money. I didn't get another spray gun because the day was getting long and I would not have enough time to get back and complete the job..

I'll hit a couple of spray shops this week and get a good spray gun and try again next weekend. I'll prep the motor cabinet during the week if time allows.. Maybe ill be ready to paint all three pieces who knows..

LOL I have had a rough time with this whole painting thing from the start... I know I need to use a professional paint on these parts If its to endure another 30 years - I can get away with rattle can paint above the chip pan, but the chip pan and cabinets need to be durable. I intend to win this battle.


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## Mr Mike

Again I Failed.. but there may be a silver lining..!

Ok so I got tired running around town looking for a pro spray gun, Well I run around town every day doing service work.. But I stopped at the 3 major paint shops this week. Not one caries Devilbiss or Binks spray guns.. so I went back to HF and after 2 more trips to HF was ready to prime, Trip 1. to get a conventional none HVLP pressure pot spray gun.... The pressure Pot, Fluid & Air lines and Regulator were all good... But lol the fluid needle in the gun was defective.. Trip 2. to get a replacement Fluid needle.

I hooked everything up to begin priming and tested a few spray spots on rocks - looked kinda ok..
Immediately when I started spraying the chip tray I could tell this was going to be a disaster.. But hey.. I can always sand and start over I'm thinking..! So now's as good a time as any to figure out the gun and make adjustments till I get the primer to spray right.

I fallowed the primer directions to a tee.. 9 to 19 psi on the Fluid, and 50 to 60 Psi on the Air - The directions did state that an Conventional Devilbiss JAG pressure pot gun with a 777 cap and E or F = 1.8mm 1.4mm Needle Or equivalent, The HF meets all the requirements. Well all but one...

The one thing I couldn't determine would be the Devilbiss 777 spray cap.. Which may be the difference in my ability to spray the darn stuff properly. It was breezy out but not windy, and cool around 60 Deg. So I should have at some point got a decent spray pattern even with a cheap HF setup that was working without Issue.. I could not get a decent atomization and I could not find any fault with the HF setup at all.

After failing miserably I cleaned the spray equipment up all nice and clean.. and put everything away but I didn't release pressure off the tank because tomorrow we are going to give it another go..

The Silver Lining..

This primer is frigin amazing. within 20 minutes it was dry to the touch.. And in about and hour I couldn't scratch it off with my finger nails... And when I went to used a Medium Scotch Bright pad to rub down the rough high spots.. It did nothing to the primer, the pad had no residue on it.. the primer was hard as a rock.

I'm going to do a little testing on the primer tomorrow, See what damages it. lol even when cleaning out the not yet dry spray equipment, I used paint thinner.. It had amost no effect. I had to use acetone to clean everything up. But paint thinner is what they told me to use to clean up with.. Hmm..

In either case I'm going to do my best to figure out how to spray this stuff... The other option was an Airless with a .13 to .19 tip. which I have but, what a clean up nightmare that will be.

No luck yet.. To be continued...




This is the best example of Orange Peel I've ever seen. Hides every imperfection.


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## Mr Mike

So the good news is I talked with the paint people today at PPG, and will be heading to the store tomorrow morning.. They have been super helpful from the start at the commercial store.. I told them what I have tried and done and my problem spraying it..

Matt the person thats been putting up with me from the start said he would be glad to help me solve the problems I'm having spraying this stuff.

I also did a little testing on the primer, Paint thinner doesn't attack it, Denatured Alcohol just cleans it, Acetone is its Nemesis and takes it off. I used a SS wire hand brush and the first seveal strokes did nothing at all and after I vigorously scrubbed one area, it seemed to make it just a little dirty. I got my palm sander with 80 grit paper and after about five minutes of sanding, the primer was starting to smooth out.. the sanding created a fine dust powder like flour almost.

After sanding with the palm sander I got the orbital sander out with 80 grit and started making a good dent in the primer, tons of powder coming off..  at this point in this 24" x 24" area I removed most of the orange peel leaving behind a smooth layer of primer. I changed to a 220 grit paper which was less like sanding and more like polishing it.

In the photo below acetone was used in the bare metal area. and further down Past that area I sanded with 80 and then 220 grit paper. The top was sanded with a palm sander with 80 grit paper, just a few passes, this just stated knocking down the orange peel.





The white primer covered the original gray paint with a single coat.
When I can finally spray this primer properly it will be an outstanding base coat. It builds quick and can be sanded smooth. You cant damage or scratch it off with your finger nail, Its designed to be corrosion resistant, Love how tough it is.

Excerpt from TDC:
--
PITTSBURGH Paints Alkyd Fast Dry 2.8 VOC Universal Primers are corrosion inhibitive primers formulated especially to coat interior or exterior metal surfaces to prepare for most topcoats. Uses include parts, machinery, and other fabricated metal surfaces. May be topcoated with a variety of finishes including epoxies, urethanes, acrylics and other alkyds. FOR METAL SUBSTRATES ONLY 
--




In reading the TDS about the Primer, Xylene is what should be used for clean up - It actually states under - CLEANUP:  97-727 Paint Thinner <--- the 727 is their code for Xylene. Note: Xylene vapor is bad for your liver big time,  *DANGER* - Xylene has a cumulative effect, so don't breath it or get it on you, kids.

Well thats all I got for today... till next time.


----------



## Nogoingback

Mr. Mike, you're doing a great job fixing up that lathe.  Can't wait to see the finished 
machine: it's going to look fabulous.


----------



## Mr Mike

Nogoingback said:


> Mr. Mike, you're doing a great job fixing up that lathe.  Can't wait to see the finished
> machine: it's going to look fabulous.



Hello Nogoingback, Thanks for the vote of confidence... I hope your right.


----------



## RandyM

Nogoingback said:


> Mr. Mike, *you're doing a great job fixing up that lathe*.  Can't wait to see the finished
> machine: *it's going to look fabulous*.



Yup, Nogoingback is 100% correct.


----------



## hermetic

Hi Mr Mike, good job! I think your paint is too thick for the temperature you are spraying in, the paint is not running together enough before it tacks off, so you get the orange peel finish. The pressure pot delivers a LOT of paint, and for normal work indoors in a heated spray shop, the primer is mixed with thinner to the consistency of creamy milk, try using more thinners and don't try to rub down too much,far better and easier to spray a thinner coat to bury the orange peel.  just take the tops off the orange peel with 100 to 160 grit paper used wet, then dry off, tack rag and spray more primer, but thinner and see how it goes, Good Luck!,


----------



## Mr Mike

Hello Hermetic, I did pretty much just like you said, sanded down all the orange peel to a semi smooth surface, and re-primed the chip pan. I was going to use my airless to respray the primer I like but its not capable of spraying hot solvents. So in order to get this job rolling I changed from a solvent to a water based system using a fine finish tip in the airless. Its not going to be the new out of box finish I was shooting for, but still acceptable.

Tee Supports are on and Its ready for the Dark Grey topcoat.




I'm probably being over picky, while it looks pretty good their are imperfections scattered over the chip pan. I really should have built a tank and stripped it. I also tried to match the original color - I Eye-Balled a color chart to the cleanest area under the chip pan.. its kinda close to the original none faded color - the new paint is a couple shades off but close enough for a 39+ year old lathe.






The paint its self came out pretty decent, The paint is thick bodied and did a good job hiding small flaws,  I'd give the overall finish of the chip pan a 70%. While the primer & paint did not lay out as flat and smooth as an automotive grade paint job, Its what you might see on some steel front doors.




I didn't even notice the dings near the bottom corner, other than that this side of the chip pan came out pretty darn good. Also you cant see it well in the photos but before I painted I rounded off the sharp edges of the lip so the paint would have something to hold on to. I let it bake in the sun all day then put it with all the other completed items to keep it safe.




The primer I used is Sherwin Williams Pro Industrial Pro-Cryl Universal Acrylic Primer, Its main application is corrosion resistance of Metals & Machinery, The paint I used is Sherwin Williams semi gloss Pro Industrial Water Based Alkyd Urethane, Its main application is heavy cleaning, handling & abrasion resistance.

The chip pan will be set aside for 14 days to fully cure and harden. I'm sure by then it will look much better since I wont be critiquing it as closely as you would just after painting. Also once the lathe bed and assembly is put back in place 50% of the imperfections will be hidden or disappear from view. I'll do a scratch and hardness test after its fully cured to see if its as tough as I was told it would be.

Over all I'm fine with the way the chip pan came out. Even if I would have stripped it clean, the best I could hope for painting with an airless would maybe be a 80% finish. 

Next up will be the Small Pedestal or maybe both cabinets depending, I wont be able to spray the interior of the small pedestal with the airless due to space limitation with the none removable shelving... I'll get the color close with a rattle can thou.


----------



## hermetic

Well, that topcoat looks fine for a machine tool to me! Too much gloss and the marks show real easy!!, Keep up the good work!
Phil


----------



## Mr Mike

I'm hopping i'll have better luck painting the cabinets then I did with the chip pan. 
I've stripped or sanded smooth to the touch all old paint from the exterior of the small pedestal.

I'm going to try and finish painting both cabinets this weekend.







I had to reposition the hoist to the top of the gantry to accommodate the additional height of the tee supports on the cabinets .
The cabinets would be impossible to move once painted without a way to lift and keep off the ground, while the paint dries.






I will remove the door from the larger cabinet also, then strip and prep for paint.  








I have fingers crossed for beautiful weather this weekend ...


----------



## HRgx

What a superb job you are doing Mr Mike. It's going to turn out so nice that you may not want to use it...LOL


----------



## Mr Mike

HRgx said:


> What a superb job you are doing Mr Mike. It's going to turn out so nice that you may not want to use it...LOL



Hello HRgx, Thanks so much for the kind words.


----------



## Mr Mike

Well I got lucky. The pin holes went all the way through the cabinet making it possible to extract them using a blunted nail, Logan doesn't sell these tags any more...  I have see some videos of these being restored.




Both cabinets are prepped and ready for primer.. They were sanded smooth down to 220 grit, Smooth to the touch.





The primer went on Excellent for an airless using a fine finish 312 Tip, So far I'm thrilled.. Ill let them dry over night and spray them Dark Gray in the morning.

The tee supports really helped with ease of access, And the hoist a life saver making aligning the cabinets to the Saw Horses a breeze.






My only complaint is you end up wasting a little over a cup of paint during the clean out phase of the airless, On the plus side you can spray two light coats in under five minutes a cabinet..


----------



## hermetic

Provided you paint is not a two pack type, you can drain the thinned primer back into an empty can, then wash the gun out, and put the thinners into the same can, and use that for thinning more primer or topcoat if you are washing topcoat out. Also disconnect the pressure and squeeze the trigger to allow the paint in the mixing chamber to drain back into the cup. Both paint and thinner are expensive, waste as little as possible, and use a cheap gunwash thinner to clean the equipment after all the best thinner and paint are removed. She's looking good!


----------



## HRgx

I saw a fully restored Monarch 10EE on Pinterest. It's the red one. The fellow laid some pin striping on it. I do think he went a little overboard with the pin stripes. However, if you did some tasteful and not too busy pin striping, I think that it would look real nice. Just my opinion but whatever you decide, it's gonna be a show piece.


----------



## Mr Mike

hermetic said:


> Provided you paint is not a two pack type, you can drain the thinned primer back into an empty can, then wash the gun out, and put the thinners into the same can, and use that for thinning more primer or topcoat if you are washing topcoat out. Also disconnect the pressure and squeeze the trigger to allow the paint in the mixing chamber to drain back into the cup. Both paint and thinner are expensive, waste as little as possible, and use a cheap gunwash thinner to clean the equipment after all the best thinner and paint are removed. She's looking good!



Hello hermetic, I used a professional water based product, And sprayed it with an airless machine so I wouldn't need to thin the primer or paint.
I didn't use the pressure pot sprayer with this painting system, The airless uses a short 25' foot hose that takes about 2 cups to fill by its self, when I clean it out I spray about half that back into the paint can befor the soapy water gets up to the spray gun.

The paint and primer were about 50.00 a Gallon each so they are a bit pricey, lets hope the paint lives up to its cost. Thanks so much for trying to help out thou...


----------



## Mr Mike

HRgx said:


> I saw a fully restored Monarch 10EE on Pinterest. It's the red one. The fellow laid some pin stripping on it. I do think he went a little overboard with the pin strips. However, if you did some tasteful and not too busy pin stripping, I think that it would look real nice. Just my opinion but whatever you decide, it's gonna be a show piece.



Hi HRgx..

Funny you should mention the pin striping.. I was thinking of doing something along them lines but decided against it. I was also considering having an airbrush artist paint some Rack and Pinion Gears in some complicated manner on the lathe bed, at one point I was even thinking Star Wars  Storm Trooper even.

In the end I decided I'm going for a factory fresh Machine Tool look with some highlights on the Lathe Bed, Carriage, Compound slide and Tailstock handles. If I was going with some striping a couple Dark Gray strips on the white bed supports would look neat, but it would ruin the clean look I'm shooting for.

Thanks  for the input though, Mike.


----------



## Mr Mike

The cabinets came out excellent.. The additional effort with prep work made all the difference in the outcome, Just the Interior painting is left.
It took between 3 and 4 hrs per cabinet Inside and out to Grind, Scrape & Sand off the old paint, Key scratches in the base metal and remove the rust to a smooth surface using a pneumatic orbital sander & about 40 sheets of sand paper.

The Chip Pan took less time maybe 1.5 hrs of original prepping and another hour to sand off the bad paint job - but finally did come out pretty good after the painting issues were solved. Allot of time was wasted, maybe 5 or 6 hrs with drive time working out the paint issues that I was having from the start of this project.. I had no luck with spraying the solvent based paints trying several methods and ended up using a water based system at double the cost. I just hope the paint is as tough as its price tag.

The Pre-Prep work of creating and remaking the gantry & hoist, and making the tee stands took about 6 hrs. about two hrs of spray equipment cleanup including failed attempts - lets say for everything a total of 22 hrs to get the Chip Pan and Pedestals painted.

lol because I used an airless sprayer the total time I spent painting was under 12 minutes. I used a stop watch to time myself on the final coat of Dark Gray on the large pedestal at 1 minute 24 seconds.  I really wanted to learn to use a solvent paint but sometimes you have to go with what you know to get things moving.




Wet paint Just sprayed, would have been nice all glossy. Paint prep is everything.



The flashed off paint shows the final semi gloss sheen, and factory fresh paint look.



Cabinets are dry to the touch, Thanks to the hoist I could lower them down and move them without a scratch.
Now I just need some courage not to touch them for at least week, then ill finish the interiors and reassemble whats ready.



Thanks for looking.. Mike.


----------



## larry4406

This is a net project you have undertaken!  Lots of diversions along the way - electrolysis, painting, restoration, and in the end a machine you will know in and out!


----------



## Mr Mike

larry4406 said:


> This is a net project you have undertaken!  Lots of diversions along the way - electrolysis, painting, restoration, and in the end a machine you will know in and out!



Hi Larry, yes lots of diversions.. I originally wasn't intending on this restore becoming a net thing, I was just going to restore it and post the before and after photos. I would always do the best I could regardless of postings, I would have done everything as I've done so far.. with the exception of the electrolysis which I'm glade I learned how to do, It will come in handy down the road with this project.

I asked before I started if I should just do the before and after photos, Or a full beginning to end write up, a few people said a full write up with lots of photos. so here I am. I thought maybe I would be helping others by showing how I am doing it but it been going both ways. who knows maybe it will help someone avoid my mistakes and or find some info useful.


----------



## RandyM

Mike you are doing a great job, not only with the restoration of your lathe, but the documentation of it in this thread. Not everyone takes the large amounts of time to take pictures, load them to the site and then describe everything. We are all very grateful of your efforts and appreciative of your unselfishness to being willing to help us all learn and enjoy your fun. Thank you!


----------



## Mr Mike

RandyM said:


> Mike you are doing a great job, not only with the restoration of your lathe, but the documentation of it in this thread. Not everyone takes the large amounts of time to take pictures, load them to the site and then describe everything. We are all very grateful of your efforts and appreciative of your unselfishness to being willing to help us all learn and enjoy your fun. Thank you!



Thanks for the kind words Randy. I'm glade I found this forum I wasn't complaining, There are so many nice folks here sharing their knowledge with everyone. I highly doubt anyone will learn anything new from this thread but the documentation is still important with tons of photos that can be used in the future by others trying to Id and locate missing parts from their Logan 1875, I don't mind contributing and helping where I can.

The world would be a better place if it operated like this forum, Kick out the all the haters and everyone share info freely.

Thanks Mike.


----------



## Mr Mike

Ok so while I'm waiting for paint to cure for the next week or so, its time to play mad scientist starting with the Tailstock, Yup Electrolytic rust removal. I don't do videos often but I may do one on electrolytic rust removal because while there are many videos out there on the subject, there lacking details that would be useful. I'm am by no means a wiz on the subject, but I have electronic tools that can shed some light on what is going on and how to control it.

I believe I have the science down pretty good, Its gotten to the point with all the testing.. lots and lots of testing that I can tell when the parts are done without having to pull the part to visibly check it, Now I'm working on the what If's - Like what if all the rust has been removed and something comes up and you forget and leave the part cooking on High or Low current for an extended period. that kinda stuff.

The problem is videos take allot of time, energy, and expertise to be of good quality, along with a good setup which I don't have. Not to mention I don't have that camera friendly look or audio voice, I actually began making a video once on how to convert an upright golden tee video game cabinet into the much more popular pedestal type but never finished the video because I didn't want to be seen in it so I created it all graphically and It just takes me to long.

The video below took over 8+ hrs, To create a mere 48 second video - I literally tried my best to make a cool video that would be fun to watch.. I re-created the terminator effect as part of the intro, After the intro it was going to be lots of photos with a voice-over explaining the whole conversion process... I started putting the photos in order ( I had Hundreds of photos ) and editing scenes together and when playing back the video checking for errors in the sections, I realized I don't have a good video sounding voice either, so I gave up. I may or may not be willing.. we'll see.






On the plus side Ive been a busy beaver working on the tail stock.. I tore it down and am currently removing rust, the fun way. I'll post Pic's when I have the electrolysis done. I also need to order the 2 part rubber to make the motor mount bushings and order the Leg levelers for the cabinets.

After the tail stock I'll start on the scary part.. The spindle head & bearings, The scary part is if I mess a gear or something important up - I'm going to cry my eyes out because I don't have the skill to make a part and or it will be really hard to replace. So ya I'm gonna be real careful like and may need advice. Thanks for looking - Mike.

Sneek Peak..
Its possible to remove the rust and leave the intact paint using electrolysis if needed. This tail-stock Handle was in the electrolysis bath for 4 Hrs, The water was already clear of rust an hour earlier but I didn't think to pull the handle out, it was cooking off additional paint while I was creating this post..

I was thinking of polishing it and spraying a clear coat over the original paint and keeping this handle as the only original part for the nostalgia. Ill pay more attention to the compound slide handle and run it in the tank alone, This handle is going back in to remove the rest of the paint. I have some other cool stuff to show that we will get to later.


----------



## Mr Mike

All the rust and paint have been removed from the Tailstock handle, time to polish it up before painting the center.




* Caution..*  Do not buff or polish any metal that requires dimensional accuracy..!
                      Polishing metal is just like sanding wood, you are removing surface material.

If your interested.. here is what I used to polish up this tailstock handle.

Everything pictured above is from Harbor Freight.
Central Machinery bench buffer - Item# 61557 - it worked great. $45.00
Three buffing compounds - Black , Gray and Green. $4.99 ea.

If you never polished metal before - the right way to do it is sand the part with 320 grit sand paper to remove tiny nicks and smooth out the surface then use 400 grit paper to remove the 320 grit scratches and so on.. continuing on with then next highest grit through to 600, If you really want a mirror finish then use 800, 1000, 1200 and you will have an amazing mirror finish when your done.

After the metal is all sanded you then polish the part starting with the black polishing compound - like sand paper but having finer abrasives.. some of the abrasive compounds are better suited to different metals - the ones pictured above are for steel.  just think of the black as being a fine abrasive, the gray a super fine and the green an ultra fine..

There are lots of videos on you tube - watch a few then grab your stuff, something to practice on like a spoon from the kitchen drawer and polish it.
you'll be a pro in no time, The bottom side of spoons are a good start because they usually have very fine scratches that will just polish out without sanding.

A pretty good video to watch about polishing procedures is from Eastwood, goes into detail about it.

Have fun.. Mike.

Electrolysis using a glass tank - Which I do not recommend, If it breaks.. Ouch



De-Rusting tailstock handle. Note there are fewer bubbles in painted areas.
The tank is running just strait tap water, No washing soda, @ 8 Amps.



Rust and paint removed over night, then scrubbed with an ultra fine Scotch Bright pad.



All polished up to a semi gloss finish like the rest of the machine. About 30 Minutes work.



Taped off and ready for paint, I used electrical tape for flexibility.



I sprayed both sides with one coat each of primer, paint  and matt clear coat 15 min apart.



After removing the tape I used acetone to clean the paint from the polished areas, looks pretty snazzy..!



It looks much better with the paint dry - before and after shot... I need to find a coating to protect the polished surface
from future rust... Anyone have some tried and true options..?


----------



## Mr Mike

Lots of rust removal is going on with the tailstock and components getting them ready for paint.

I started on the two large tailstock parts but found I was not able to get the Amps up even with washing soda because my anodes were inadequate. So I built some new ones for the small tank I am using to add more surface area, The new anodes work like a charm.

Even with a whole cup of washing soda the amps maxed out at 2.04.



Even thou the parts were cooking over night there was still some paint left scattered about.





I welded up two new anode sides



I put the Large tailstock parts back into the tank to remove the rest of the paint & rust.



Without any washing soda I was able to get the amps up.. Note the AC only clamp shows about
half of the actual amps being drawn by the tank.



Everything is moving along nicely..! most all the tailstock parts are done..



I left the clamping plate as I found it with accumulated caked on oils and dirt to see what effect
it will have with the electrolysis.



I'll be plenty busy this weekend tearing stuff apart getting lots of parts ready for electrolysis...


----------



## HRgx

Mr Mike, your work, patience, perseverance and attention to detail continues to amaze me. I can't wait to see the finish product, but don't rush it as too am patient.


----------



## Mr Mike

HRgx said:


> Mr Mike, your work, patience, perseverance and attention to detail continues to amaze me. I can't wait to see the finish product, but don't rush it as too am patient.



Hi HRgx...
Your gonna have to stop with the compliments... your making me blush. 

Here is a sneak peek to wet your whistle, I'm thinking about replace some of the original 
cabinet and bed support fasteners with stainless steel ones.


----------



## Mr Mike

The Tailstock and parts are all cleaned bagged and put away..
If you look closely at the tailstock bed clamp you'll notice its filthy covered in grim, electrolysis
ate right through it but didn't have enough time to eat all the paint off.

I just have to say thanks to everyone that suggested electrolytic rust removal when I started
this project, Its been a life saver..

Most everything here but the Quill could have been cleaned with a wire wheel or EvapOrust
but the tank was ready after removing the upper and lower tailstock, and electrolysis removes
everything down to clean metal, Less work for me.



After pulling the upper and lower tailstock and components from the tank I used Scotch Bright
to shine everything and get it ready for paint.



Everything came out excellent.



I need to see if these 1/4" ball oilers are available before I attempt to extract them.



Next on my cleaning list, Is the Headstock... 20 bucks says I put it back together, and then I
realize its missing the belts.. That would be so like me to do that.



Till next time...


----------



## Nogoingback

Mr Mike said:


> Hi HRgx...
> Your gonna have to stop with the compliments... your making me blush.
> 
> Here is a sneak peek to wet your whistle, I'm thinking about replace some of the original
> cabinet and bed support fasteners with stainless steel ones.
> View attachment 247230
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 247231



If I didn't know better I would swear you were painting a car rather than a machine tool.  When you're finished will you be willing to slather it in chips and oil?  Looks great!


----------



## Mr Mike

Nogoingback said:


> If I didn't know better I would swear you were painting a car rather than a machine tool.  When you're finished will you be willing to slather it in chips and oil?  Looks great!



Hello Nogoingback.. 

I will absolutely be making chips on it.. of what I have no Idea.


----------



## Mr Mike

Working on the headstock today I ran into a major snafu... The rear take up nut would not come off no matter what I tried. Well the last trick worked..!

After soaking the rear take-up nut 2 times for a half hour, being very cautious and not apply too much pressure to the locked backgears I could not get the nut to loosen, I then tried an approch I saw in a 7"X10"  lathe spindle removal video I saw on YouTube.



Using an All thread bar that I tightened to the best of my ability I still could not get the take-up nut to budge.



Using a Dremel tool with a cut off wheel I sliced the nut and used a screwdriver pry and spread apart the nut, which then came right off.



Unfortunately I gouged the top of a thread and nicked another with the Dremel tool, The damage is minor but no less painful.
Once the nut was removed I noticed that the spindle rotated much more freely because the bearing were no longer binding up.



Again I used the spindle nut removal trick to take off the front take-up nut.. It was tight but no issue loosening it.



The gear puller made fast work of removing this gear.



I carefully removed the thin metal covers using a small pry bar wedged between the bearing and bearing covers with no damage.



Using a press to remove the rear bearing.



All components were removed from the headstock.



My lathe must be a younger one, none of the gears were missing their teeth..









The headstock is undergoing electrolysis using only tap water... And a low amperage.



What a minor nightmare it was tearing down this headstock, Well the rear take-up nut anyways.. the rest of the headstock came apart as expected.
Everything looks good so far,


----------



## larry4406

I assume you are able to buy a new rear take-up nut?  Or have someone make you one?  You are really diving in deep on this and I enjoy watching.


----------



## Mr Mike

larry4406 said:


> I assume you are able to buy a new rear take-up nut?  Or have someone make you one?  You are really diving in deep on this and I enjoy watching.



Hello Larry..  If I cant find or buy one,  I'll make one by turning a regular nut down and facing it. Someone over tightened that nut long ago, and I didn't want to risk any damage to the spindle so cutting it off seemed the logical choice. I would never be so brazen to cut off any part that was not replaceable, I would stop and ask for help on the forum or take it to a machinist.

Thanks for looking.. Mike


----------



## Nogoingback

Mike, if you replace the nut with another Logan part, you'll need a tool to tighten it.  If that's the same size nut as on my Model 200  (1.5" dia.),
you can use a Metric (DIN 1810). 40-42 mm pin spanner.  Fits perfectly.  I bought mine online from J.W. Winco Inc.  

Looks like this:


----------



## Mr Mike

Nogoingback said:


> Mike, if you replace the nut with another Logan part, you'll need a tool to tighten it.  If that's the same size nut as on my Model 200  (1.5" dia.),
> you can use a Metric (DIN 1810). 40-42 mm pin spanner.  Fits perfectly.  I bought mine online from J.W. Winco Inc.



Hi Nogoingback.. Thanks for the suggestion my good man.

I have a very similar tool that I tried first but couldn't budge it....
I'm guessing someone used the take-up nut to tighten the chuck to the lathe which also
caused the bearings to bind, then after sitting for 20+ yrs the thin lubricant film turned to glue.

Even a foot long channel lock would't budge it held in a vise using 9/16 All-Thread through
the spindle held with washers and nuts fully tightened..

I tried the most common methods to loosen the nut.. they all failed, And I didn't want to chance damaging the spindle by using too much force or use of a blunt instruments.. After I removed the spindle, I figured out that I could have used my press from the spindle front to back the take-up nut and spacer off the rear bearing.

Live and learn. I've always said, Experience is what you get just after you need it.
On the plus side, Electrolysis of the headstock has been completed 



This is strait out of the electrolysis bath, I used Mikeys method for stopping flash rust a 50/50
mix of Phosphoric acid, Remove most the water then spray it on and let it sit, rinse and dry.

The headstock was in the tank for 16 hrs @ 2 amps. there are a few patches of paint left
in the interior that will just act as additional protection after being painted.



Cleaned up with a very fine Scotch Bright pad.


----------



## Nogoingback

Well after all that, I can see why you cut the nut off.  Certainly easier than replacing than the spindle.  One thing I don't understand is why it
caused the bearings to bind since Logans use ball bearings that aren't adjustable.  The tension on that nut shouldn't have anything to
do with bearing preload.  On mine the rear (small) bearing "floats" in the headstock with no lateral pressure on the outer race.  When you
re-assemble you might want to look for some other cause for binding.  What shape are your bearings in?

Looks as though you're doing your usual excellent job on the headstock casting.


----------



## Mr Mike

larry4406 said:


> I assume you are able to buy a new rear take-up nut?  Or have someone make you one?  You are really diving in deep on this and I enjoy watching.



Hi Larry, Yes I can replace the take-up nut with an new original, Not all but many original parts are still available from Logan Actuator.
If you happen to have a Logan 1875 and need precise photos of the disassembly of any component, I have hundreds of them that don't make it to the forum and if you need to see a particular item I bet I have it... Thanks for looking, Mike.


----------



## Mr Mike

Nogoingback said:


> Mike, if you replace the nut with another Logan part, you'll need a tool to tighten it.  If that's the same size nut as on my Model 200  (1.5" dia.),
> you can use a Metric (DIN 1810). 40-42 mm pin spanner.  Fits perfectly.  I bought mine online from J.W. Winco Inc.
> 
> Looks like this:
> 
> 
> View attachment 247602



Hi Nogoingback, It looks like you just added a new belt to your lathe, I love how nice your gears look - amazing how much work it is just to change a belt.


----------



## Nogoingback

The new belt was part of a bigger project to "overhaul" my lathe after I bought it.  Everything came apart, repairs were made, parts replaced
(including headstock bearings) etc., etc.  Of course, what I didn't do was paint it.  It's a WW II era lathe with what I assume is US Army spec.
color that was applied over the Logan gray.  It wasn't rusty and the paint, though showing honest wear isn't bad.  And I'm lazy.  And yes, 
the gears were great: all perfect and only missing one change gear.  

You're right, changing belts is a pain.  The belt I bought came from Logan, though if I were to do it again I'd consider a cam belt from
the auto parts store: I've had some problems with slipping with the belt that I have.


----------



## Mr Mike

So I started work on all kinds of stuff over the weekend and also finished painting the interior of the cabinets...

Talk about no fun at all, I don't suppose it would make much difference at this point if I called Logan and complained about not being able to remove the center cabinet shelf.. Ya know for the people that restore it 30 years later..)

There is only around 8" inches between the upper and middle shelf making it really hard to get a can in there.. I also see that it was hard for them as well via the paint runs I found in that area while prepping it.


----------



## Mr Mike

The Photos below are for Headstock Parts placement reference as the head was disassembled....
Just in case anyone needs to see where a part may be orientated. 20 photos.






















As I reassemble Lathe components back to an assemble Ill try and get photos which will be
a clearer component placement view.


----------



## Mr Mike

While restoring this lathe, Questions concerning Oilite bearings and electrolysis came into question..
I did some research on Oilite bearings, there is lots of info on the subject along with some bad & misinformed info on the net.

The most important Question about oilite bearings is, can they be re-impregnated with oil.. Answer is Yes.
Another important Question about an oilite bearing is, can they be machined.. Answer is Yes.
should you grind sand or polish an Oilite bearing, Answer is No. These actions will close/clog the pores.

This site has some techincal info on the subject. Machining Oilite Bearings.
And this one you'll have to read threw for the recommended procedures of oil re-impregnation, not a direct link but can be found on this Bowman Oilite Page.

There are two recommended ways to rejuvenate an Oilite bearing, Note: some application require a specific Oil Type such as in contact with food.

1. Fully submerged and heat an Oilite bearing in oil to 80 deg Celsius or about 175 deg Fahrenheit, let the oil submerged bearing cool off completely. remove, wipe excess oil from bearing and its ready for use.

2. Use of a vacuum pump. Fully submerged an Oilite bearing in a light weight oil in a container, apply a vacuum to the container to pull air & moisture from the voids in the bearing for a few minutes, release the vacuum and oil will be pulled back into the voids.

While there are other recipes found on the web.. Those links are from competent sources so ill just head down that route. Till next time.. Mike.

Ps.. SAE 20wt Oil for re-lubing - I could not find an answer if this was a none detergent oil, I would think a none detergent oil because oils with detergents are used in high temp applications like engines.


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## Mr Mike

My first re-assembly photo procedure, the reversing lever assembly for the Logan 1875 lathe.
On my parts diagram it shows two rubber Orings, that fit in groves along the shaft that seats
on the spindle head, My lever does not have groves or orings.

This photo shows all the components that make up the reversing lever.
I will be using just a small dab of blue locktight on the threads during final assembly.
If it rides on a shaft it will be pre-oiled and all gear teeth will have a coat of graphite grease.





Take note of the Oilite Bearings in the two gears, see my previous post about how you can
rejuvenate them using a vacuum, if they are worn out you should replace them. once they
are assembled there is no way to oil them - the gears shown installed ride on a shaft that
has a felt wick to dispense oil along the shaft.






Arrow is pointing to the oil hole which leads to the felt wick.







If you need a different view added here let me know, ill add it, there will be other assembly
views when its painted and reattached to the spindle head.. Mike.


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## Mr Mike

I started using Evapo-rust on some small parts.. with excellent results so far. Nuts, Bolts & Washers but tonight I'm taking the worst rust covered bolt, nut & washers and doing a comparison test. The Nut, bolt and washers at the top of the photo will get an electrolysis bath and the remaing Nuts, Bolts & Washers will go in the Evapo-Rust.

Tomorrow morning I'll pull them all out check the results, And edit this post to show it. None of these samples are terribly rusted - Just heavy surface rust mostly and the worst one I found at the bottom of the Motor Cabinet looks worse then it is.

I have absolutely abused the use of Electrolysis during this project because it was new and fun.. I did allot research and testing to see what happens when I change properties of the test, and I've learned a bunch.

For me I think there really is a middle ground for the the use of both Evapo-Rust and Electrolysis.
Can't wait till morning to see the results because these are mostly Identical parts used for this comparison test which is rare.
See you all tomorrow.. Mike.




The end results.. Both methods of rust removal leave behind a film layer. If Appearance is a
none issue then the Nuts & Bolts from the Evapo-Rust bath are ready for use.

The test subjects were dipped in acetone immediately after being removed from the rust
removal process. 




Using a Scotch Bright Pad, Both took about the same amount of time and effort to get to a
nice shine. The electrolysis bolt came out somewhat shinier- but may have been shinier to
begin with.. Very fine Scotch Bright pads are all that I use to shine stuff up, On the threads I
cheat and use a Dremel Tool with a wire wheel to clean out any left over crud.




Of course no real conclusions can be made from just one or even ten tests. I spent about 5
minutes each shinning these Bolts up, both were a success and look great to me. 

Evapo-Rust is a bit costly so Ill reserve its use for small parts that fit in a small coffee can.
Small parts are also a hassle to use electrolysis on so the two methods are complimentary.


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## Mr Mike

I Worked on the Spindle Pulley & Bull Gear over the weekend..

The spindle pulley just removed from the head assembly..



This Spindle Pulley Is actually two Parts, This screw keeps the gear mated to the Spindle Pulley.
Just a short turn and you'll see the oil access hole for the, lol oiless bearings.. The advantage
to tearing this whole lathe down is learning where and what lay hidden.





Spindle Pulley after Electrolysis.. Note the Alignment and Oil holes.



All cleaned Up.. I really need to find a way to protect items like this from Re-Rusting, It took
about an hour to fully clean the gray film left from the electrolytic bath. This an all other parts
that have Oilless bearing will get a 2hr oil bath in SAE 20 none detergent oil at 180 deg. 





The Bull Gear just removed from the assembly..
I was relived after I removed the Bull Gear and cleaned it, I found no cracked or damaged teeth.



The Bull Gear after electrolysis.. No pre-cleaning is needed, Everything comes out of electrolysis oil, grime & rust free.
It took about 20 minutes to shine it up from this point..



The finished Bull Gear..



The Bull Gear locking pin Re-assembled..





I had to stop by PPG to get more Scotch-Brite pads for a $1.99 Ea.. A good deal.. this and Extra fine is all I use to clean up everything.
The big orange box sells 2 half pads which is the same as this pad, for about double the price.



More to come soon..!
The paint on the Lathe bed, Supports and cabinets have had time to thoroughly dry and are ready for assembly next.


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## mikey

Great job, Mike! Some lucky guy with a Logan to restore is going to thank you for your detailed pics and discussion. 

Are you planning on using this lathe to make chips? I mean, that might get it dirty and that's a real concern.


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## RandyM

Mr Mike, you are having way too much fun. I am very envious. You are doing a great job.  Keep up the good work.

Mikey, your jealousy is showing.


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## Bob Korves

Mr Mike, old lathes are supposed to look...  OLD!  Well, I guess you do not subscribe to that concept.
Very nice restoration, can't wait to see it finished.


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## Mr Mike

mikey said:


> Great job, Mike! Some lucky guy with a Logan to restore is going to thank you for your detailed pics and discussion.
> 
> Are you planning on using this lathe to make chips? I mean, that might get it dirty and that's a real concern.





RandyM said:


> Mr Mike, you are having way too much fun. I am very envious. You are doing a great job.  Keep up the good work.
> 
> Mikey, your jealousy is showing.





Bob Korves said:


> Mr Mike, old lathes are supposed to look...  OLD!  Well, I guess you do not subscribe to that concept.
> Very nice restoration, can't wait to see it finished.



Hi mikey, RandyM & Bob Korves. Thanks for the compliments... And thank you guys for helping me with this project.!

Mikey.. I will absolutely be making chips on this lathe, All I ask for is a lathe in great working condition, in order for me to know that - I need to rebuild it myself. This has also been a fun learning project too, I can now visually identify and name every part and purpose except the quick change gear box and carriage, I haven't started restoring those components yet. Very soon ill be making chips, 6 months tops..

Randy M, Don't tell anyone but I have a slight case of OCD, So I tend to over do things till their the best I can get them... Its a fault - But I need it right to start with so I only have myself to blame for errors, going through this has been allot of fun.. great project.. thanks for helping.

Bob Korves, you have been a good voice of reason, and I do see your point about an old lathe should be what it is...  I could have saved up and bought a new lathe, but I my mind couldn't justify the purchase, But I can trick my self into buying one thats used and spend additional funds making it look fresh, because I will learn much along the way, Kinda like a paid education.. worth every dime.

Soon I'll be begging you guys for help on how to use it - Hope you guys don't mind...

Thanks Mike.


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## mikey

Every one of us understands the drive you have, Mike. It might surprise you to know how many of us have completely taken our machines apart and refreshed them. We're mostly teasing you while also praising the job you've done - you're doing an excellent job of documenting your journey and this will help those who follow behind you. OCD? Check. Want your machine in top condition? Check. Possibly spending more to refurbish an old lathe than a new one cost? Check. You fit in here juuust about right, Mike! If you ask a question on using that lathe, I'm going to chip in some advice because I want to help you dirty it up!!


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## RandyM

Mr Mike said:


> Hi mikey, RandyM & Bob Korves. Thanks for the compliments... And thank you guys for helping me with this project.!
> 
> Mikey.. I will absolutely be making chips on this lathe, All I ask for is a lathe in great working condition, in order for me to know that - I need to rebuild it myself. This has also been a fun learning project too, I can now visually identify and name every part and purpose except the quick change gear box and carriage, I haven't started restoring those components yet. Very soon ill be making chips, 6 months tops..
> 
> *Randy M, Don't tell anyone but I have a slight case of OCD, So I tend to over do things till their the best I can get them... Its a fault - But I need it right to start with so I only have myself to blame for errors, going through this has been allot of fun.. great project.. thanks for helping*.



Mike, we are birds of a feather. Buried in that line of thinking is all the fun you are having. There some that will never understand the joy of do a total reconstruction and doing it correctly. Money and time always gets in their way. Oh, I don't think you are over doing anything, you are doing it correctly and proper. You are going to have a really nice machine that you can be very proud of and will last you until you are finished with it. Keep up the good work.



Mr Mike said:


> Bob Korves, you have been a good voice of reason, and I do see your point about an old lathe should be what it is...  I could have saved up and bought a new lathe, but I my mind couldn't justify the purchase, But I can trick my self into buying one thats used and spend additional funds making it look fresh, because I will learn much along the way, Kinda like a paid education.. worth every dime.
> 
> *Soon I'll be begging you guys for help on how to use it - Hope you guys don't mind*...
> 
> Thanks Mike.



We are waiting in anticipation and highly looking forward to helping you with your projects.


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## Bob Korves

The really best thing is that your take down, cleanup, inspection, and polish of every part of the lathe gives you really intimate knowledge of what it is, how it works, and exactly how it was assembled and adjusted.  When you are using it you will know and feel everything going on with the machine, good or bad, or just how it is.  It is part of you and you are part of it.  That is a very different experience from buying a machine, plugging it in, looking at the green start button, and saying "magic happens here."


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## Mr Mike

I checked the Serial Number 71619 stamped on this Lathe against a date range at the Logan Lathe store to find the date of manufacture, If I'm reading it right then this lathe was built in 1957 - Which means it's 60 years Old..? Logan used Blue Gray paint till the 60's which is the color this lathe was before I electrocuted it. Hmm...

Edit: I ordered some parts today from Logan Actuator Co, While talking to Scott ( Parts and tech support ) I asked if he could verify the age of this lathe. Yup.. it was manufactured in 1957.


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## Mr Mike

Time to assemble the back gears.. The following photos are for part identification and orientation.
Additional text only if an explanation is necessary. Parts are in their proper orientation, look closely.




During some previous assembly of the small gear that was pressed on, it galled and scraped
the metal which was pinched between the gear and shoulder - always use an anti-Seize.

The small gear is pressed to the shoulder and will leave about 3/16" of the quill end exposed,
Notice the portion near the end of the quill that steps down,  press small gear on this side.

So your wondering or maybe not... The tube says aluminum - which is the main component,
color and heat range for this anti seize, it can be used on many alloy types.

Another popular anti seize is called Never Seez -



When parts need to be pressed past the end of a shaft I'll use a socket just larger then the
shaft - without a press you can use an all thread bar with nuts and washers to pull it on.
If you have never used a press watch lots of videos, Don't be in a rush, Don't use a hammer.





If the play between the Oillite bearing & shaft is greater than .004 press in new ones.







The before and after -


Easy Peasy.. Done.

The bonus photos below  show how the alignment should be to the Bull Gear and Spindle
Pulley when installed in the Headstock.

The Large Back Gear should be flush to the outside of the spindle pulley gear.



The small Back Gear should be flush with the back side of the Bull Gear, Note the Bull Gear
teeth protrude past the small Back Gear by about an 1/8".





The spindle assembly will be a different set of photos, although simple there are a couple things to be careful of, Spacing.
Thats all for now, have fun Mike.

Disclaimer - This is how my lathe is assembled, yours could be different so you should defer to your parts break down located in your manual.


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## RandyM

Mike, I find it interesting that the shaft has set screw marks on it.

You are obviously experienced at doing this sort of thing. I greatly appreciate that you are not taking any short cuts. You do quality work.


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## Mr Mike

RandyM said:


> Mike, I find it interesting that the shaft has set screw marks on it.
> 
> You are obviously experienced at doing this sort of thing. I greatly appreciate that you are not taking any short cuts. You do quality work.



Hello RandyM, Yes..! those Marks are a conundrum on that piece. This is my very first lathe restoration project - fortunately the same skill set, methods and procedures apply to most machinery across the planet, I could have been an engineer in school but I chased after the girls instead, then later in life I learned machines just make more sense..! Who would have guessed


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## Mr Mike

This Is the Eccentric Shaft that raises and lowers the back gears on many Logan laths.

This short series of photos show all the parts in their proper orientation.
Note that the short & long Bushings have oillite bearings, The shaft rotates but never spins
so the play between the shaft and bearings should be minimal, Pre-Oil the assembly
when Re-installing - there is no access to the right bearing after installation but the left
bearing can be oiled by removing the reversing lever if needed.



Notice the key is offset slightly on the shaft.. The pinion gear is slip fit, If needed use a socket
and not the bushing to convince the gear to fit flush to the shoulder.



The back gear assembly rides on this eccentric shaft which raises and lowers the back gears
to the spindle pulley & bull gear.



The left and right bushings are held in the headstock with an allen head set screw at each end,
These bushings control the alignment of the back gears to the spindle pulley and bull gear &
Rack shifter and should allow very little lateral movement ( side to side ) of the back gears.
Refer to Post #173 in this thread to see the alignment of the back gear and spindle pulley.
In this photo you can see the eccentric shaft, back gears and bushings as an assembly.


In the photo above with the back gears engaged there is a 6 to 1 gear ratio between the
spindle pulley and the bull gear.

More information and photos will be posted when these components are re-installed in the
headstock. Mike.

Disclaimer - This is how my lathe is assembled, yours could be different so you should defer to your parts break down located in your manual.


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## RandyM

OK, now you are just showing off. 

But that plastic stand for the gear train is a beauty. Sometimes it is nice to see an assembly without the surrounding hindrances. It can really let you see what is going on without mirrors and body contortions.


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## Mr Mike

RandyM said:


> OK, now you are just showing off.
> 
> But that plastic stand for the gear train is a beauty. Sometimes it is nice to see an assembly without the surrounding hindrances. It can really let you see what is going on without mirrors and body contortions.



Hi RandyM. Thats why I'm building it, to show people how back gears work as a system, but the stands not done yet..


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## Mr Mike

I love the easy ones - just surface rust mostly and scattered areas of missing & loose paint. 



This headstock cover was put in electrolysis, cooked over night and pulled out 16hrs later,
sprayed off with the hose then sprayed with 50/50 phosphoric acid, lightly scrubbed then I
let that stand for 2 minutes.. rinsed and dried.



20 minutes of scrubbing with a Scotch Brite pad and wallah - Done.


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## Mr Mike

The change gear cover has minor surface rust and tones of scaling paint.
It sat in the electrolysis tank over night and cleaned up with ease, I didn't remove the hinge pin
because of the angle it sits at... trying to drive the pin out without a press could damage the
casting so I left it in place and will work with it.




After being pulled out of the tank it was hosed off and sprayed with phosphoric acid.. it sat
for about 4 minutes and scrubbed with a brush, then patted dry.



I used Scotch Brite to polish it up.. Done.!



Guard was literally just pulled out of the electrolysis, You can see some paint still on the
part but its no longer adhered to the guard and is removed with the garden hose. I don't
show these photos because who wants to eat after seeing this. 



Same as above just hosed off.


Up next is the change gear assembly,  after that all thats left is the Quick Change Gears, Carriage & Apron - then paint and reassemble - Woot getting closer every day... Mike.


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## Mr Mike

Well like most of you I haven't had allot of time to do projects this last week, I did manage to get the other half of the change gear done thou... And I ordered some parts from Logan this last week, I'm keeping the other change gear that was offset 3rd Photo - I don't think it will be an issue and it's grown on me some...







Speaking of  parts - Some came today, the front and back spindle bearings, some oillite bearings, take up nut and felt oiler.
The funny thing is when I look up these bearings numbers on SFK's site.. They have them but theres no C-clip on the main bearing and the rear bearing shows up but its not the same... there are additional numbers on the package that you cant look up.. I have more parts coming soon too.



I make these plates for the machines on our route to mount credit card readers to. lol so
technically I'm a paid professional machinist sometimes.. I didn't say a good one.. I am just
the guy that fixes, alters, creates stuff for the company.. I'm always the one saying we dont
have to buy it - I'll make it, sometimes they will let me..



I'm hoping to get on the project of the month page with this piece.
Its a work in progress so my lips are sealed for now..



Thats all I got accomplished this last week.. More to come - have a great holiday..


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## larry4406

Awfully quite here...

Hopefully the progress has continued.


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## Mr Mike

larry4406 said:


> Awfully quite here...
> 
> Hopefully the progress has continued.



Hello all, I am still here.. Progress is on pause for the moment, but I will continue right where I left off.
To be continued...


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## Mr Mike

Sorry for the long delay, I Will be returning to this rebuild very soon and continue to completion so that anyone that has this machine can use it for reference...!


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## MBfrontier

Hi, Mr. Mike.

Fantastic job on your Logan 1875 restoration. It looks like you are having a lot of fun on this project. I look forward to seeing how it all looks and your impressions when it's finished.

I have a Logan 1957 11 X 36 that has a full cabinet that I will need to strip and paint so I found your methods interesting.

Keep up the good work and thank you for sharing your project with us.


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## Mr Mike

Hello to any an all that followed this thread...
unfortunately for me and this thread a situation arose that forced my hand to donate my unfinished lathe to a person that claimed they would continue on with the restoration, I was unable to store it during a move I knew would take much time.

I humbly apologize for not finishing this thread being so close to a completed restoration that was about 90% complete, and kick myself with regret every time I think about having to let go of the perfect first lathe because I made a hasty decision to let go of it due to timing issues.

Now that I have everything back in order, I am on the hunt for another lathe... Another Logan 1875 would be nice but good luck right.

I really learned an amazing amount doing and completing what I had finished, and had a blast doing it, so I am back to try again or maybe just buy a new lathe and get started learning the craft, I just cant determine what lathe I would be happy to start with.

Again sorry for all the time everyone had invested watching this thread, I am currently on the hunt for the same or similar lathe to restore.  Or if anyone has a suggestion or knows of a new decent quality lathe I cant soon out grow quickly in the 3 to 6 thousand range let me know thanks.

PS, Not looking for a junk lathe with tones of bells and whistles, Just a good lathe I can grow with.. Mr Mike.


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## brino

No apologies required!
We all have to do our best in life with the hand we're dealt.

I'm sorry you had to give it up, but I am glad that you now have some time and money to get back into the game.
Please keep us posted.

-brino


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## 34_40

times 2.  no apologies required.  Good to hear you're still looking.


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