# 833T & 1340GT Questions



## Jason812 (Apr 9, 2019)

I have been wanting a lathe and mill since I was finished with school in 2006.  After a lot of research, I have decided on getting a 3 phase PM1340GT with the preferred package & a PM833T.  I plan on ordering them next month & have already downloaded Mark's VFD drawings to add a VFD to the lathe.  Besides the belt on the lathe, what else needs to be changed almost immediately on either machine?

833T Question:
Is the z-axis power feed worth getting?  I realize it could be used to feed while boring but am curious how well it works in that operation.  Due to doorway constraints, this is about as big a mill I can get.  

1340GT Questions:
Is it worth getting the quick change tool post Matt offers and plan on upgrading later or should I just pocket the $180 and save up for a Dorian or Aloris tool post?


----------



## parshal (Apr 9, 2019)

When I bought my 1340GT a couple months back I bought the Aloris tool post from QMT.  You won't notice the extra cost if it all hits at once.


----------



## tweinke (Apr 9, 2019)

I think the z feed probably is worth it, cranking the head up and down by hand will get rather tiresome.


----------



## wrmiller (Apr 9, 2019)

This is just my opinion, but when I bought my 1340GT I knew that it was going to be a good quality, accurate lathe. So I decided to not put junk accessories on it and stretched myself (and my wallet) to get the best quality chuck (PBA) and QCTP (Dorian) I could reasonably get.

And after four years I'm still glad I did it. My PBA chuck is the most accurate and repeatable chuck I've ever owned. There may be a better one out there, but I can't afford it. 

I also spent the bucks for a EL400 (DroPros) machine specific dro with magnetic scales. I like having 0.0001 (diameter) resolution on the cross slide, and can actually cut a skinny/fuzzy chip at .0004" with a good sharp tool. My alignment spuds for screwed on compensators need half-thou or less dimensional tolerances or they're too loose.

Again, this is just what I did. YMMV.


----------



## Jason812 (Apr 12, 2019)

Makes sense to just get a good QCTP from the get go.  Precision Matthews said just pick out which Aloris I want and they will ship it with the lathe plus machine the nut.  I might as well get a 5c collet chuck too.


----------



## wrmiller (Apr 12, 2019)

I have PM's set-tru collet chuck and am very pleased with it. According to Matt, it's made in the Bison factory, but doesn't have the badging on it. Or the price tag.


----------



## Morgan RedHawk (Apr 12, 2019)

I have a Z-axis motor on my PM-932 and I am glad every time I use it.  I would say it is definitely worth it.


----------



## INTJ (Apr 15, 2019)

I have had my 1340 GT for almost a year and I haven't seen any issues with the belt or with Matt's quick change tool post.  Maybe I just don't know any better.  I do recommend Dr Mark's control board.  I also recently upgraded form a 727V to an 833T.  I have both powerfeeds and a DRO from TPAC Tools in boxes waiting for me to have time to install them.


----------



## Jason812 (Apr 15, 2019)

I asked about the belt from other threads questioning the reliability.   Knowing me, I will probably replace it almost immediately. 

Unfortunately PMT only carries a Bison 5c chuck and the price tag to go with it.  I might still get it.  

I'm convinced that I will get the z axis power feed as well and even though I didn't mention it, DRO's too.  I just figured they were implied.

Originally I wanted a 1440GT (still do) but decided to save some money as the 1340GT will do what I want.  For that matter a 1236GT would as well.  I will take some of the money saved to get the nicer accessories.


----------



## INTJ (Apr 15, 2019)

Just get the 1440GT as your second lathe and you can have two setups.

What is wrong with the stock 1340GT belt?


----------



## RIMSPOKE (Apr 20, 2019)

THE PM-933T Z AXIS FEED IS FAR & AWAY WORTH IT !

THAT HEAD IS PRETTY HEAVY AND THE COLUMN IS TALL .
YOU WILL BE WISHING YOU HAD THE Z POWER BY FIRST THE TIME YOU MAKE IT TO THE TOP .

THE VARIABLE SPEED IS THE ICING ON THE CAKE .
I HAVE USED MINE MANY TIMES FOR CONTROLLED FEED BORING .
WORKS FANTASTIC !


----------



## mksj (Apr 20, 2019)

A great combination of machines at the price level. The 833T the Z axis drive is a big plus and the X axis drive if you can swing it. On my last bench top mill I built both drives, mostly because off the shelf drives were not available, the Z axis is a must do in my book. The X axis drive will give very clean consistent finishes and handy for repetitive milling.  Get yourself a high quality vise, I recommend a 6" w/o a swivel base to start with. These can hold a much wider piece of stock and with 11" of Y travel would be what I recommend.  I recently picked up a second 6" Toolmex when they were a bit less, it is a direct copy of a number of other vises, it is made in Taiwan.  Otherwise consider the Kurt DX6, save a bit if you buy direct with one that has a blem, or check online when they go on sale. The investment in an accurate and rigid vise is well worth it.








						Toolmex Mill Machine Vise - 6" Wide w/6.75" Opening Match Table Height w/ Kurt   | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Toolmex Mill Machine Vise - 6" Wide w/6.75" Opening Match Table Height w/ Kurt  at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				











						Kurt ® CrossOver® Vise - DX6
					

Combining all the great features of our world-renowned Kurt Vises, along with new state-of-the-art workholding technology, Kurt® Workholding’s revolutionary DX6® CrossOver® vise achieves new levels in precision and performance where flatness and parallelism are important. Now Featuring a cast on...




					www.kurtworkholding.com
				




On the 1340GT, I would spring for the Aloris QCTP, like a good vise it is something you use all the time. Save your money and buy a bunch of the inexpensive holders sold by QMT, I would not get any of the kits from Aloris OR Dorian. The Dorian QCTP also is very nice, what I used on my previous and current lathe. Their QC as far as surface finish has been a bit variable, but the function of the holder is great. Their holders are another story, they seem to keep changing the dimensions, a real mismatch between the ones I have. Dorian SDN30BXA, the last one I purchased from Zoro with a 20% off coupon is probably similar to the Aloris through QMT.   The stock belt on the 1340GT shed rubber all over the place, anything is better. I used the Gates Tri-Power for years and barely showed any wear, others have used link belts. A matter of preference. Going 3 phase with a VFD gives a lot more control. If you go with a VFD, make your machine a single belt speed machine by flipping the motor pulley and using the belt on the larger motor puller to the larger headstock pulley. I believe it takes a BX27 belt, but measure it up as it varies by belt manufacturer.

Only other recommendation is to add a pump oiler for the gearbox to provide more even and consistent lubrication. A number of different ways to do it, but a simple system works well. the key is to get lubrication to all the holes in particular the bearings which are in the far back right corner near the chuck mount.

A DRO for either/both machines (even inexpensive) is a real plus in particular for someone starting out, but also know how to use the machines w/o it. Glass scales are fine, I have  installed my own DRO's, good experience and almost always make my own brackets.

A few considerations to look into, QMT sells the Taiwanese Chandox Set-Tru 3J scroll type chuck, might be worth considering. I have the Bison 5C Set-Tru, I use it most of the time, so was worth the investment. A few people have gone Accusize direct mount D1-4 5C, it might be good enough and they seem to be very good as far as returning it if it doesn't meet spec. Alternate is the SHar's ER40 set-tru style chuck.


----------



## bretthl (Apr 21, 2019)

Jason812 said:


> 1340GT Questions:
> Is it worth getting the quick change tool post Matt offers and plan on upgrading later or should I just pocket the $180 and save up for a Dorian or Aloris tool post?



I got the QCTP with my 1340GT.  It is JUNK!  If I had a do over I would skip the "preferred package" on the mill and lathe.


----------



## INTJ (Apr 21, 2019)

bretthl said:


> I got the QCTP with my 1340GT.  It is JUNK!  If I had a do over I would skip the "preferred package" on the mill and lathe.



Interesting.  The QCTP I got with my 1340 GT has been fine.  It holds tools and allow precision cuts.


----------



## Jason812 (Apr 21, 2019)

MKSJ, can you elaborate on the oiling upgrade?

I have used Kurt vises in several flavors over the years at work.  All the way up to their 8" extra capacity.   I will definitely try to find a used one cause they are nice but $$$.  I could have drove the 8" to work with what it costs.


----------



## bretthl (Apr 21, 2019)

INTJ said:


> Interesting.  The QCTP I got with my 1340 GT has been fine.  It holds tools and allow precision cuts.



Mine wore internally enough that to raise the gibs far enough to install a tool holder in one of the positions the handle had to be rotated counter clockwise to the point that the handle blocked tool holder installation.  It progressively wore to the point where it wasn't worth messing with.  I picked up a Dorian and there is no comparison.


----------



## mksj (Apr 21, 2019)

Pm1340gt Gearbox Pump Oiler System
					

The PM1340GT  is very nicely built, works very well, and I have very few bones to pick with its features and overall quality. One area that did concern me when I was revising the front control switches, was the oiler system for the open Norton style gearbox. The current system (which is probably...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				











						Upgrading My PM 1236-T Lathe
					

Well I wasn't really planning on creating an entirely new thread on this, but I might as well. It all started when I uncrated the lathe and realized I just can't stand the white color. I asked on here, and did you guys ever deliver! You see, I had planned a one-shot oiler as well as a drag-chain...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				



I would  clean all the packing grease from the gears, as they can block the oil drip holes underneath. I just squirted some oil in each hole on the top drip plate. I used way oil in the pump, either Vactra #2 or even beter Mobile Vacuoline 1409 (sticks better to the gears), otherwise an ISO 68 gear oil. I used a square manifold and some 4mm bijur tubing segments to distribute the oil, Alan (deleted) who is another 1340GT owner used a round tube manifold and threaded in some tubing segments, others (David Best) made a plate distribution manifold. I try to keep it simple...

If you are using a pump oiler with a 4mm (5/32) oil line then you will need a adapter/elbow to go from the tubing to your manifold. See below for examples.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fitting-Pi...-Tube-Tubing-90-Deg-Elbow-N-LbK2/163169545854 








						5/32" Tube OD Compression x 1/8" Male Npt Elbow Fitting Adapter Connector  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 5/32" Tube OD Compression x 1/8" Male Npt Elbow Fitting Adapter Connector at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## diamond (Apr 22, 2019)

I'm about 8 months into my 1340gt.  I too went with Mark's VFD mod and I also put on his proximity stop.  With no foot brake I really like the proximity stop for threading work.  With the VFD I am running the stock motor on a single pulley setup and easily able to go down to 70rpm for parting up to 1800+ without belt changes.   Went with the Easson DRO and Aloris QTP, like them both a lot.   I still need to do the oiler mod. 

If you do put a DRO on it, check out one of Mark's other threads.  Did this and it's awesome.   
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pm1340gt-cross-slide-lock-mod-for-dro-machines.36413/

One negative: the "precision balanced" 4 jaw independent chuck upgrade.  Recommend skipping right over that option.  I failed the buy once cry once principle on that one and spent $380 that should have gone towards a Bison or other expensive but worth it upgrade..   The 3-jaw scroll that came with the preferred package however is perfectly fine.

I just recently added the Shars ER40 set true style chuck.   I wanted to run ER40's on both my Bridgeport and lathe.   I am amazed at the quality for the price.    The back plate comes partially machined requiring some minor finishing that resulted in nearly immeasurable runout between chuck changes.  I did get a ball bearing nut for it which seems to help as well.  It is my goto for smaller work on the lathe now.


----------



## Jason812 (Oct 17, 2019)

Update:

I realize I haven't posted in a while.  I got the machines moved to my shop on Oct the 6th.  It turns out the shipping company didn't have a 27ft pup trailer and you can't get a full size trailer down my road, let alone make the turn to get down my drive way.  I'm glad I have a friend who farms for a living with enough room and equipment to unload the machines at his place and then have him deliver them to my place.

The mill is in the room and I hopefully get the lathe moved in this weekend or next.  It seems that sometimes day to day life doesn't let you make progress as fast as you would like.  I ended up with both the 833T and the 1340GT.  After just playing with the 833T, I will be glad when I get the Z axis power feed installed.  I could see how manually moving the head will wear you out.

Mark Jacobs built the VFD control board with the proximity stop.  He is a true resource of information and I am thankful for his work and willingness to share information.

After they are set up, there's still so much to do thanks to all you peeps with the modifications to make life easier.  ie, pump oiler on lathe, quill stop on 833GT, spiders and it seems to go on and on...

I will start a seperate thread with pictures when they are both in their final spots and under power.


----------



## 7milesup (Oct 17, 2019)

Looking forward to seeing your progress.  I have an 833 also, but unexpectedly sold our house and am in the process of building a new house and a new shop, so no time to play with my new tool.


----------



## davidpbest (Oct 18, 2019)

I agree with a lot of what’s been said here:   

Replace the belt on the 1340 with a Gates Tri-power.  

I would stick with Dorian (my choice) or Aloris for the quick change tool post rather than trying to save a few dollars on an off-brand alternative.  

Avoid the Dorian “First time buyers kit” that includes the tool post and some tools and tool holders - it looks like a good deal but some of the tools they include are highly specialized and not useful for most people getting started.    

That said, I would NOT buy Aloris or Dorian QC tool holders for square shank tools or boring bars.     The Dorian BXA size tool holders will take >3/4" shank tools, but do so by lowering the bottom ledge that registers the tool in the holder. To run 5/8" or 1/2" shank tools in the Dorian holders, you have to put a spacer under the tool. The Aloris BXA tool holders will take 1/2" and 5/8" shanks but will not accommodate 3/4“ shanks.    In contrast, the BXA holders Matt sells at Precision Matthews, as well as the BXA size tool holders from All Industrial Tool supply ($15 each) or CDCO ($12) will also take a 3/4" shank tool, but accommodates them with different geometry that doesn't require a spacer under 1/2" and 5/8" shank tools.  

Before I down-graded to a PM935, I had the Rong Fu 45 square column mill/drill that was similar to the PM833.  I got very tired of cranking the head up/down manually, so I recommend you get the Z-axis power feeder option if you can swing it.   

Several PM users have complained about blowing capacitors (mill & lathe), or harmonic vibration induced into machined parts from the factory supplied single-phase motors (lathe).  If you can see your way to a 3-phase setup, you will have fewer issues.   Either run each machine on a VFD which gives variable speed control (mksj is the guy here to help with that) or get a simple phase converter for your two machines.

Lathe chucks depend a lot on what kind of work you’ll do.  Matt sells some nice 3- and 4- jaw upgraded chucks.  I use an ER40 collet chuck the most often and made my own, but I hear good things about the Shars Set-tru (I no longer allow any Shars in my shop).


----------



## matthewsx (Oct 18, 2019)

davidpbest said:


> Before I down-graded to a PM935, I had the Rong Fu 45 square column mill/drill that was similar to the PM833.  I got very tired of cranking the head up/down manually, so I recommend you get the Z-axis power feeder option if you can swing it.



David, it's interesting to hear that going to the PM935 knee mill from your RF 45 was a downgrade for you. Could you elaborate on why that was, I have been led to believe that knee mills were more rigid and capable than square column ones.

Thanks,

John


----------



## davidpbest (Oct 18, 2019)

See below


----------



## davidpbest (Oct 18, 2019)

matthewsx said:


> David, it's interesting to hear that going to the PM935 knee mill from your RF 45 was a downgrade for you. Could you elaborate on why that was, I have been led to believe that knee mills were more rigid and capable than square column ones.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John


With some reluctance, I will share my views on your question.   My reluctance stems from the fact that conventional wisdom dictates that knee mills are better than benchtop mill/drills, and I have no desire to start a war of an alternative point of view.   But, having owned both, and put them through their paces, I see it somewhat differently.

First off, the word “downgrade” was probably a bad choice.   In some respects, moving from an original RF-45 (the real one made in Taiwan) to the PM935 has been a disappointment, in other respects I enjoy many of the new features that come with a knee mill.   I essentially traded one set of constraints and restrictions for another set of constraints and restrictions.

My primary motivation in making the change was to get onto a milling platform that had power feed on X, Y and the head or knee.   Adding power feed to the Y-axis and the head on an RF-45 is not easy.   Like you, I bought into the notion that a knee mill would be better overall.

Several people warned me that I would find the J-head design a disappointment, but I didn’t listen or research that aspect and plunged forward with the purchase of the PM935.   As it turns out, the original head on my 935 was defective, and it took a good six months of effort to diagnose, change out various parts, ultimately coming to the conclusion that the head was grossly defective in some manner dealing with the spline drive system, spindle alignment, etc.  Matt at Precision Matthews came through in the end, and ultimately supplied a complete new head unit, which resolved the problems.   That said, in the process of all this I ended up becoming fully educated on the J-head design, and I am not impressed - particularly the way the back gear system works and how the power downfeed works on the quill.   In comparison to how an RF-45 geared head achieves 60 to 3000 RPM, and how the power downfeed is designed, the J-head is positively 18th century.  If you’re interested in the complete saga of my J-head issues, it is completely *documented here*.

Like I said, I have a new head unit now, and although I’m not fond of the J-head design in general, it works and I have learned to live with its idiosyncrasies.

I was attracted to the PM935 because it had a small footprint, and would fit in the same general space allotted for my RF-45.   It was also short enough to fit in my low ceiling height of 82-inches.   I considered other knee mills, but every one of them required 84” or more, which I did not have. I was aware that I would be buying a junior-sized knee mill - one that weighed 1,000 pounds less than conventional knee mills.   Still, it was considerably heavier than my RF-45. 

I had hoped the 935 would be a more rigid machine but that has not proven to be the case. The expressed “common wisdom” is that knee mills are more rigid than bench top mill/drill machines, and I’m certain that is true when a smaller mill/drill weighing 400 pounds is compared to a 2,500-pound knee mill.

However, the RF-45 square column mill has a very beefy column, attached to a beefy base with no knee to flex or gib interposed, and a head unit attaches directly to the column instead of being placed out at the end of a cantilevered ram. The ram on the 935 provides additional Y-axis room for sure, but it also puts a 350-pound head unit at the end of what is essentially a potential springboard. Add to that ram a knuckle that facilitates head nod as well as tilt, and you have another component that can contribute to rigidity weakness.   In my opinion, the knuckle on the PM935 is undersized and the bolting arrangement that locks it in pitch and yaw is insufficient to keep the head tram in alignment under heavy loads made possible by the 3HP motor.   This is just my opinion, and certainly not empirically proven, but in contrast to the knuckle design on an Acra or Wells-Index, the knuckle on the PM935 is a weak point.   To be sure, I never experienced the head being driven out of tram on the RF-45 under the heaviest of loads, but I have experienced that on the PM935.

So, put a very heavy head at the end of a cantilevered ram, and interpose a marginally sized knuckle in the middle, and I think you can see why a junior sized knee mill might be less rigid than a beefy direct-to-column head attachment machine like the RF-45. 

I am also fully aware that a 2,500-pound Wells-Index, Acra, or Sharp knee mill will have better rigidity than the RF-45 benchtop mill/drill. But the 1500-pound PM935 is in a different league; supporting the same 350-pound J-head on a cantilevered ram arrangement.

How does this translate in practice?  Have a look at *this video*.

The same test on my RF-45 shows a head deflection of 0.0003” - that’s 8 times less deflection than the PM935. Matt at PM confirmed that 30 pounds of pressure on the PM935 should show about 0.002” deflection as my test shows. “This is normal” was his specific comment.

I realize this specific test is probably insufficient, or even flawed in its attempt to ascertain the rigidity of the machine or make empirical comparisons to other machines regarding rigidity.   But I can say, after plenty of experience and lots of time milling 6061, 303/304 stainless, 4041 and 1018 steel, I was able to drive my RF-45 harder than the PM935, and get better surface finish and tolerances for any given feeds/speeds equivalency.    My general impression in comparing the RF-45 to the PM935 in terms of rigidity is this:  in achieving any given surface finish or machined feature tolerance, I could achieve about 30 percent higher material removal rates on the RF-45 in comparison to the PM935.   And then there is the issue of head tram being forced out of alignment under heavy loads as mentioned above – something other PM935 users have confided to me privately.

The last four videos in the following series might also be interesting viewing on this topic:  *click here**.*

I had decided previously not to post on this publicly, because it will likely bring out the wrath of others (“you are full of crap, my PM935 runs circles around my buddy’s Grizzly whatever” or “your tests are faulty, or you’re gibs are loose, or your dial indicator needs calibration” kind of flaming) and stir up endless debate (“In my 400 years as a machinist, I’ve never seen a bench top mill that could be even close in performance to the cheapest knee mill” kind of thinking), and also because I don’t want to come across as trashing PM, or the PM935.   Precision Matthews has supported me well.  The PM935 is a very nice junior sized mill and I have recommended it to others with full disclosure of its limitations in addition to its virtues. 

Now I will sit back and hope the flaming isn’t too harsh.


----------



## ddickey (Oct 18, 2019)

Interesting.
Nobody warned me about the j-head.
I wish they had.


----------



## matthewsx (Oct 18, 2019)

Thank you very much for responding, I understand why you haven't posted about this before but it seems very pertinent to us hobby machinists with limited space. 

I previously had a Gorton 1-22 which I think fits into the larger knee mill category but I lost that one when I closed my old shop and couldn't move it into my garage. I'm now building my own small CNC mill/drill but eventually see myself looking for another manual machine. 

You've definitely given me something to think about as I move forward and I hope your post doesn't generate too much controversy. At the end of the day I guess what you're saying is you can't deny physics and it's impacts in the shop.

John


----------



## stioc (Oct 18, 2019)

davidpbest said:


> With some reluctance, I will share my views on your question.   My reluctance stems from the fact that conventional wisdom dictates that knee mills are better than benchtop mill/drills, and I have no desire to start a war of an alternative point of view.   But, having owned both, and put them through their paces, I see it somewhat differently.
> 
> First off, the word “downgrade” was probably a bad choice.   In some respects, moving from an original RF-45 (the real one made in Taiwan) to the PM935 has been a disappointment, in other respects I enjoy many of the new features that come with a knee mill.   I essentially traded one set of constraints and restrictions for another set of constraints and restrictions.
> 
> ...


No flaming from me, that was very helpful in fact, so thanks for posting your thoughts/findings and experience. Definitely something for me to keep in mind when I'm ready to replace my current mill with something more substantial.


----------



## mksj (Oct 18, 2019)

Can't really cheat the laws of physics, mass/size and leverage all play into the flex equation. Do not loose track that the RF 45 is much more compact and the Y travel is a 8.2" vs 12" for most knees. You also loose about 1" plus if you add a DRO, which was a limiting factor on my previous square column mill. The 833T has a Y travel of 11" and heavier than the RF45, so should be interesting comparison. Another big question on the current RF-45 mill is quality issues discussed in other threads. When I upgraded to a knee, I went with a 9x42 Acra/Sharp which is around 2400 lbs, and I still consider it a light weight mill compared to some of the others I have used. Still, if you have the room and can get it into your space, there is a benefit to a heavier machine. The 42" table is a bit small, but given that I am 5' 6" on a good day I didn't want anything bigger. I can barely get the vise and rotary table on the table at the same time. In hindsight I might have gone with a 49/50" table with the power feeds. I went with the X and Z power feeds which made life so much easier. I get almost mirror finish using face mills and almost no ridging with multiple passes.

As far as the J head, yes primitive beast, but works. They have been around for decades and are pretty much unchanged. Adding to that the electronics/VFD models are also as primitive when they could do so much more. The market is very small, and no one is going to invest in a major redesign at this level. CNC is a different ballpark, yes there will always be a place for manual machines, but these days it is getting much smaller. I can say that I have a J head on my knee mill which came with a factory VFD, and it works reliably and is rigid on my mill. The stock VFD control was pitiful, and of course it was the first thing I modified. So forward is always forward, reverse is always reverse, even in back gear. Added auto reverse for tapping with auto start/stop. I much prefer 3 wire control for mills with them located at the knee, big safety issue for me. 

Jason, thank you for your kind comments, the personalized 1340GT face plates came out very nice. Look forward to you getting everything installed and up and running. David always does some amazing machining work, but he is a hard task manager and is pushing the limits of his machines. All this is very helpful for others, appreciat the time and effort you have gone through.


----------



## davidpbest (Oct 18, 2019)

mksj said:


> David always does some amazing machining work, but he is a hard task manager and is pushing the limits of his machines.


Thanks Mark.  If you think I push the limits of the metal working equipment, you should see what I do with my woodworking gear.   LOL

Just a quick follow-up to add that my point isn’t to dis the PM935, but simply to point out that users should not expect it to be as rigid as a machine twice its weight, and that there are benchtop mills that match or exceed its rigidity.   My guess is that the PM833 is a pretty stout machine, and although it has a smaller work envelop (compared to the 935) it has a more contemporary head design.


----------



## davidpbest (Oct 18, 2019)

mksj said:


> As far as the J head, yes primitive beast, but works.


My dad used to say the same thing about his Ford Pinto.


----------



## Jason812 (Oct 19, 2019)

Is there any down fall to not installing the panel between stands on the lathe?  I'm not seeing how 8 small screws would add that much rigidity to the stand plus the lathe itself doesn't make contact in the middle.  I haven't contacted Precision Matthews yet but my panel is pretty scuffed up from shipping.  I was thinking just leaving it off and using the area for a tool box as it seems like a lot of wasted space.


----------



## matthewsx (Oct 19, 2019)

Jason812 said:


> Is there any down fall to not installing the panel between stands on the lathe?  I'm not seeing how 8 small screws would add that much rigidity to the stand plus the lathe itself doesn't make contact in the middle.  I haven't contacted Precision Matthews yet but my panel is pretty scuffed up from shipping.  I was thinking just leaving it off and using the area for a tool box as it seems like a lot of wasted space.



Yes, contact Matt about it.

But, you would be surprised just how much rigidity a panel with small fasteners can add to a structure. Houses come to mind....

John


----------



## Jason812 (Oct 19, 2019)

I going to use it.  Got an idea in my head on how to replace, make a shelf, and probably make it more sturdy.  It will be a project after everything is up and running.


----------



## rogerl (Oct 20, 2019)

I had a Enco RF30 clone for 20+ years. It did me fine for my home and hobby projects. I got the bug to replace the bench mill with a Knee Mill. I found this forum and Precision Mathews. I really liked the PM-935 TS it would fit in my shop and would be a very good replacement to the Enco bench mill. I did my research and asked questions and was told about the differences between the J head machines ad the gear head machines. I was concerned about the noise from the gear head machines. I was not able to hear one of them run and I knew what a J head mill sounded like so I decided to buy the PM 935 TS mill. I am VERY happy with my PM-935 TS mill. I use the mill for hobby projects for home. I do not use it to do high production work or to try to make money. I do not make high precision parts. I mostly work with 6061 aluminum and mild steel. I bought a VFD for the mill and it is very easy to go from high speed to low speed. Yes, the J head has it's quirks, Yes, the head could be mounted to a heavier ram. But for what I do with the mill it is a HUGE upgrade from the Enco bench mill.
If you are looking for a mill to do production work with or for high tolerance work then the PM-935 is not your machine. If you are looking to make parts at home for a hobby or to support other hobbies then it is a darn good machine.

Just my 2 Cents
Roger L


----------



## wrmiller (Oct 20, 2019)

rogerl said:


> I had a Enco RF30 clone for 20+ years. It did me fine for my home and hobby projects. I got the bug to replace the bench mill with a Knee Mill. I found this forum and Precision Mathews. I really liked the PM-935 TS it would fit in my shop and would be a very good replacement to the Enco bench mill. I did my research and asked questions and was told about the differences between the J head machines ad the gear head machines. I was concerned about the noise from the gear head machines. I was not able to hear one of them run and I knew what a J head mill sounded like so I decided to buy the PM 935 TS mill. I am VERY happy with my PM-935 TS mill. I use the mill for hobby projects for home. I do not use it to do high production work or to try to make money. I do not make high precision parts. I mostly work with 6061 aluminum and mild steel. I bought a VFD for the mill and it is very easy to go from high speed to low speed. Yes, the J head has it's quirks, Yes, the head could be mounted to a heavier ram. But for what I do with the mill it is a HUGE upgrade from the Enco bench mill.
> If you are looking for a mill to do production work with or for high tolerance work then the PM-935 is not your machine. If you are looking to make parts at home for a hobby or to support other hobbies then it is a darn good machine.
> 
> Just my 2 Cents
> Roger L



I had a CO 9x40 mill that was more rigid than my 935TS. So what? I'm not the type that buys a machine and then has to make mods to make it more rigid. I do mostly small projects in aluminum/steel/brass/titanium, and pistolsmithing which is NOT hard on machines. But accuracy is required, on both my lathe and mill. I have a 3-axis DRO on my mill with a digital touch probe that gets me less than a half thou positional or dimensional error. Some folks don't like it, but it works for me. 

I upgraded to the 935 to get the knee and the articulating head for ease of setups. It is rigid enough for what I do. I too have a VFD on mine and leave the belt on the 3rd pulley most of the time. Smooth and quiet. 

I could say the same thing about my 1340GT, in that I don't need a lathe this big. I loved my little SB1001, as it was a good size for what I do, and very accurate. I upgraded to the 1340GT (w/VFD) to get the Norton gearbox. If I had the money available, I would have skipped the 1340 and gone with either the Griz or Sharp Hardinge clone as that would be a perfect lathe for what I do.

Not everyone needs or wants the same things in life. And that's cool.


----------



## Jason812 (Nov 10, 2019)

Update: The mill and lathe are installed and under power. 

There were some snafus with the lathe.  USPS damaged the box Mark Jacobs sent with the goodies inside and completely broke the proximity sensor for the micrometer stop.  I ordered another one and got it replaced.  One of the leveling holes on the head stock cabinet was not tapped and PM sent me a tap.  I got that fixed and all the wiring complete only to find out that the safety switch and cable for the micrometer stop was damaged in shipping as well.  Mark is sending me a new cable and I filed a damage claim with USPS.

I can run the lathe with the override button pressed.  I installed a single motor pulley with a BX25 belt and an Aloris QCTP.  I checked the spindle run out with no chuck and my Starrett test indicator with .0005" graduations didn't even move.  Unfortunately I have .002" run out with the chuck in all 3 mounting positions.

Mark was kind enough to have my shop name engraved on the control panel.


----------



## davidpbest (Nov 11, 2019)

Sounds like you are making good progress.  If you want to borrow an M5 precision test bar to align the head let me know.   I’m anxious to see the 833 under load.


----------



## ddickey (Nov 11, 2019)

M5 test bar?


----------



## davidpbest (Nov 11, 2019)

ddickey said:


> M5 test bar?


Yes, as shown *HERE*.


----------



## ddickey (Nov 11, 2019)

Oh yeah I have one of those.
Mine is not very good. The bar is very straight but the taper not so much.


----------



## Jason812 (Nov 17, 2019)

I asked David his thoughts on this one.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/5MT-Lathe-...er-All-Length-442mm-17-1-2-Inch-/173745215972  He said this one looked similar to his so I bought one.  It showed up at the house yesterday.  I mic'd both ends and they were the same as far as I could tell (34.962mm spindle 34.963mm end).  I apologize for the metric, my 2" mic has a dead batter and I have a set of metric manuals so I used those.   I have no idea about the run out because I do not have a set of V's to set it in and check.  I can say that at the spindle, I had .0001" of run out and less than .0002" at 10.5"  I cannot tell if it is hardened or not but I figure if I take care of the bar, it shouldn't matter.

After what seemed like a never ending exercise of futility, I have the lathe leveled.  With the test bar, I had .0006" taper in the head stock.  I was able to get that down to .0001" in the 10.5" of travel.  I will put the bar between centers tomorrow to check the tail stock.  Getting closer to making test cuts.




Side note, my brother likes to make wooden hammers and made me one with an oak head and china berry handle.  I asked him to make me a 1.5"dia x 12" long dowel to unseat tools in the spindle taper.


----------



## davidpbest (Nov 17, 2019)

Your head was better aligned than mine.   You can check runout with the test bar in the spindle - just rotate the spindle while looking at the indicators.   Assuming you don't get much variation when the spindle is rotated, I think you're golden.


----------



## Jason812 (Nov 17, 2019)

Need tools, projects, work... and the post man to drop off the replacement proximity cable. 

Only things really left to do is mount the vise on the mill and some cable management.


----------



## petertha (Nov 30, 2019)

Jason812 said:


> .  I asked him to make me a 1.5"dia x 12" long dowel to unseat tools in the spindle taper.
> View attachment 306009



What are you knocking on, the feed screw handle?


----------



## Jason812 (Nov 30, 2019)

petertha said:


> What are you knocking on, the feed screw handle?



No.  The hammer is non marring.  I have used it to indicate the vise and gently tap the draw bolt in the mill to unseat the tool.  I want a wooden dowel to unseat the dead center out of the lathe spindle so the inside of the spindle won't get dinged.


----------



## petertha (Nov 30, 2019)

That's what I was wondering. Occasionally I have an MT shank that gets stuck. Specifically my favorite PM drill chuck. I know that the ejector pin is against the end. If it doesn't come out with a spin of the handle (like a bit of momentum behind it) I've resorted to removing the handle & popping it from the handle end with brass rod or similar. I don't want to put extra load on the TS lead screw nut.

Some people have advocated its OK to give the handle a pop so providing release leverage, but I'm not sure the bolt threads on my lathe are up to the task. There is so much mechanical advantage on the screw just applying handle torque, I'm still amazed the arbor shank can stick that way. I've blued it before & its a perfect fit. Anti-seize is not a good option or it risks spinning in the quill barrel. 

Lately I have been wiping it with a low-odor paint thinner I use for general cleaning. It has just a hint of lubricity like if you put a drop of WD-40 in alcohol. That seems to be working for me, striking the balance of cleaning the surface, staying put but not getting locked up. I was wondering if maybe regular oil film could 'set up' over time & act like a bit of adhesive? Sorry for the long ramble - peaked my interest.


----------

