# Justifying a Larger Expensive Lathe?



## ShagDog (Feb 20, 2021)

I have 2 Taig lathes, one with power feed, and I have a 1979 Taiwan 8x16 lathe that is a beast for it's size. Being a tool junkie, I am always lusting for something a little bigger that I might be able to fit in my small shop space; for example, something like a PM 1236T.

Here's the problem. I can't think of what use I would have for such a lathe. I have made a model engine, and am in process of making a second one. Most of the parts were made on the Taig lathe and Taig mill. On the larger lathe, I have made a tool post for it, and maybe a flywheel for one of the model engines. Most of my time on the larger lathe has been checking for and eliminating any taper, and practicing some threading, and just practicing in general.

I have no desire to make a business out of lathe work. I am retired and want to stay that way . I keep telling myself that I may just need a bigger fancier lathe in the future for something that might come up that I need to repair or make . So, what I have now is certainly enough for my purposes. Yes, the old Taiwan lathe is a little worn; but, I like it. In fact, if I could find an identical one in better shape (like sitting in someone's storage with little use, I would jump on it)

So, I just wonder how I can justify an expensive lathe like the PM 1236T (not that I can afford it at this point; but, something to save for) or so lathe in my situation. I would appreciate all the justification I can get. For example, other than look at it and drool, what kinds of things would I make with it that I can't already make with the lathes I have? I don't think I can justify that kind of money for something that I will use the heck out of just practicing stuff in the first month or so, and then just admire it.

Please bring on the justification .


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 20, 2021)

I have an entire shop full of tools and thus far I’ve repaired two things for my neighbours and a half dozen things around the house. 

Do I want a bigger lathe?
Of course I do! 
Do I need one?
Not in the slightest...


----------



## mmcmdl (Feb 20, 2021)

Go BIG or Go home !


----------



## Aukai (Feb 20, 2021)

Get it, and projects will come.


----------



## Winegrower (Feb 20, 2021)

If you can’t imagine what you would do with it, you don’t need it.



just kidding.  Snap one up tomorrow.


----------



## mmcmdl (Feb 20, 2021)

How about this one ? Instead of always making small scrap parts , you could make much larger scrap parts ? Works for me !


----------



## ShagDog (Feb 20, 2021)

Thanks for the responses. They helped me to see that my question was a little silly, and I just needed a slight awakening. My conclusion and justification is that since I really like machining with a lathe, I should just get the best I can afford, and that will fit in my shop space  .


----------



## westerner (Feb 20, 2021)

A big machine will make better small parts than a small machine can make a big part.....


----------



## epanzella (Feb 20, 2021)

I bought a Grizzly 12x36 gunsmith lathe. G4003G. This lathe was so far above and beyond my skill level and my needs it was embarrassing.  Fast forward 6 years and I can't imagine getting along with less. No matter what you get you grow into your capabilities until you are limited by them!


----------



## 7milesup (Feb 20, 2021)

Justification... Bahahaha.   We don't need no stinkin' justification.

You are asking the wrong crowd.  I just went from a 10x22 lathe to a 14x40.  I do have a few projects for it but in all seriousness, having the larger lathe opens up more possibilities.  Just like @Westerner mentioned above, you can make small parts on a big lathe but not the other way around.

If you do decide to get a bigger lathe I would suggest a Taiwanese one vs. Chinese.  Or maybe you are looking for old American iron, which is whole 'nother animal.


----------



## FOMOGO (Feb 20, 2021)

Obviously, you need to make bigger engines. Enough with this model stuff.  Mike


----------



## ttabbal (Feb 20, 2021)

As someone who owns a Bridgeport, and has never milled work that wouldn't fit on a mini mill, perhaps I'm not qualified to answer this question... 

However, one thing that's easy to overlook is the larger amount of metal you can remove and the speed you can do it with. It's nice to have the ability to rough in with some deep cuts. Granted, sometimes the journey is as important as the destination. 

That said, what you want to make does matter. And larger machines can mean larger more expensive tooling and accessories. I would never argue against a bigger machine, I think they might kick me out of the club if I did, but you can get a lot of tooling and stock for the cost.... 

Even that might be too much... MORE POWER! <grunting and ball scratching here>


----------



## Aukai (Feb 20, 2021)

ShagDog said:


> Thanks for the responses. They helped me to see that my question was a little silly, and I just needed a slight awakening. My conclusion and justification is that since I really like machining with a lathe, I should just get the best I can afford, and that will fit in my shop space  .


Your man card was in question, good thing I told them to hang on, lets see....  
If small gets you what you need done, that is fine too. It is what will make you happy that counts, we will still help you spend your money.


----------



## mmcmdl (Feb 20, 2021)

Aukai said:


> we will still help you spend your money.


Was this ever in any doubt ?


----------



## silence dogood (Feb 20, 2021)

If you really want to go big, there's a Shin Nippon Koki in Korea that's for sale.  It's 3400mm(11') x20,000mm(67').


----------



## mmcmdl (Feb 20, 2021)

silence dogood said:


> If you really want to go big, there's a Shin Nippon Koki in Korea that's for sale. It's 3400mm(11') x20,000mm(67').


I find it hard to downsize !


----------



## erikmannie (Feb 21, 2021)

You only live once. Dive in to your passion & buy the (hopefully Taiwanese) machine that you are drooling over. When you get it, use it every chance you get & have fun.

I have had a lot of different hobbies, but I find working on a manual lathe to be something really special.


----------



## mikey (Feb 21, 2021)

westerner said:


> A big machine will make better small parts than a small machine can make a big part.....





7milesup said:


> Just like @Westerner mentioned above, you can make small parts on a big lathe but not the other way around.



The trick is having a good small lathe for smaller parts AND a bigger lathe for bigger parts.   

I think the rigidity, capacity and power of a larger lathe is a good thing BUT most larger lathes are limited by speed capability. Given that the vast majority of parts made on lathes are in the smaller size category, maybe 2" and under, speed becomes an issue, especially if you use carbide tooling. One of the key attractions of mid-sized lathes is that they are sized for smaller parts AND often go up into the 2000-2400 rpm range where you can optimize speed for carbide tools. 

Everything is a trade off. For most hobby guys, I think a 11-13" lathe is going to be the sweet spot.


----------



## matthewsx (Feb 21, 2021)

It's a hobby, just be grateful you're not into boats or planes....


----------



## erikmannie (Feb 21, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> It's a hobby, just be grateful you're not into boats or planes....



Or stepping out!


----------



## Martin W (Feb 21, 2021)

Here you go! This just popped up for sale...Just kidding
Cheers
Martin


----------



## Downunder Bob (Feb 21, 2021)

When people ask, I always advise "choose the biggest that you have the space for, and the best quality you can afford."


----------



## Braeden P (Feb 21, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> It's a hobby, just be grateful you're not into boats or planes....


My dads is going to flight school for private pilot I thought my hobby was expensive


----------



## Aukai (Feb 21, 2021)

Flying to accumulate hours is expensive, 5K hours if I'm not mistaken to start for a commercial rating.


----------



## 7milesup (Feb 21, 2021)

Aukai said:


> Flying to accumulate hours is expensive, 5K hours if I'm not mistaken to start for a commercial rating.


No, that is not correct.
1200 hours for an ATP (Airline Transport Pilot rating).
Only 250 hours for a Commercial rating, which lets you charge for your services.
40 hours minimum for a Private Pilot although there are now some variations on that with Sport Pilot, etc.
Normal pilot path is Private, Instrument, Commercial and then Flight Instructor so you can build that all important time.

It is all about supply and demand.  Before the Pandemic, there was getting to be a huge pilot shortage.  I used to tell people not to get into aviation but right before the pandemic the hiring was crazy.  Now I have a friend that is a Captain at United and it looks like he is going to be going backwards to First Officer.


----------



## matthewsx (Feb 21, 2021)

My dad was a private pilot and home builder. Was expensive even back then.


----------



## 7milesup (Feb 21, 2021)

Oh, I trained for my private pilot back in 1982.  Had an old former WWII instructor pilot as my instructor.  I loved that guy.  He said he was done with teaching but after we met he took me "under his wing'.  I soloed with 7 hours.  Unfortunately, he passed away before he could see me make it to the top of my career.   Every now and then I think about him..

I paid him $24 per hour for the plane, fuel and his instruction.


----------



## ShagDog (Feb 21, 2021)

Are you guys trying to convince me to buy a plane now?


----------



## silence dogood (Feb 21, 2021)

Martin W said:


> Here you go! This just popped up for sale...Just kidding
> Cheers
> Martin
> 
> View attachment 356344


Finally, someone made a left handed machine for you southpaws.


----------



## higgite (Feb 21, 2021)

Sorry I’m late to the party. Could have saved you a lot of reading. If a man wants a tool, that IS the justification. Any actual need for it is just gravy. Buy it. It’s science.

Tom


----------



## ShagDog (Feb 21, 2021)

higgite said:


> Sorry I’m late to the party. Could have saved you a lot of reading. If a man wants a tool, that IS the justification. Any actual need for it is just gravy. Buy it. It’s science.
> 
> Tom



Very true. At my age, I rarely buy hobby related stuff due to "need". Simple desire should be enough justification.


----------



## Aukai (Feb 21, 2021)

7 miles...Thanks for the fix on my information. My dad was a Navy plot, and I could only learn to fly if he was the instructor( he instructed aerobatics at Pensacola). No available aircraft here, and CAP was OUT, they were Air Force, he wasn't having it. He taught me to scuba, he learned from UDT instructors, I got beat up, but passed. I was bored when I went for national certification, PFFFT, that's all you got.


----------



## Titanium Knurler (Feb 22, 2021)

ShagDog said:


> Very true. At my age, I rarely buy hobby related stuff due to "need". Simple desire should be enough justification.


ShagDog, a year or so ago I was in a very similar situation and I was advised by one of the more senior members of this forum(I will protect his identity) that my “man parts would most certainly shrivel-up and fall off” if I did not have a lathe. So, of course, I immediately purchased a PM 1236-T, sub-model MIKEY.   I had to, there were no choices to be made, it had to be done, so I would suggest you do the same before it’s too late.


----------



## mikey (Feb 22, 2021)

Titanium Knurler said:


> ShagDog, a year or so ago I was in a very similar situation and I was advised by one of the more senior members of this forum(I will protect his identity) that my “man parts would most certainly shrivel-up and fall off” if I did not have a lathe. So, of course, I immediately purchased a PM 1236-T, sub-model MIKEY.   I had to, there were no choices to be made, it had to be done, so I would suggest you do the same before it’s too late.



TK, we need to discuss the concept of protecting an identity. 

Insofar as protecting your man parts, it's true. Having a lathe is important for their well being because as @higgite will tell you, it's science!


----------



## Downunder Bob (Feb 22, 2021)

mikey said:


> TK, we need to discuss the concept of protecting an identity.
> 
> Insofar as protecting your man parts, it's true. Having a lathe is important for their well being because as @higgite will tell you, it's science!




It's all in the head, LOL.


----------



## Shootymacshootface (Feb 23, 2021)

ShagDog said:


> Are you guys trying to convince me to buy a plane now?


Hey, I want a plane, and a big lathe, but I would settle for bigger.


----------



## Aukai (Feb 23, 2021)

Brah, you don't throw the leader under the bus like that. Dave, or Will maybe, but wow......


----------



## Shootymacshootface (Feb 23, 2021)

I think that we all may need some counseling. 
Lets get mikey to do it!


----------



## sycle1 (Feb 23, 2021)

Life is short, even shorter if you are over 60, buy the lathe, we don't need justification.
On a wall hangs a million dollar painting, it doesn't do anything it just hangs and looks nice.


----------



## Aaron_W (Feb 23, 2021)

I joined this site in 2016 and bought a Sherline lathe a short time later. All I needed was that lathe, really that is it, well maybe also a mill but that was it...

Some how over the last 5 years I have become a home for wayward cast iron.

On a more serious note, lacking a specific need for a bigger lathe, I'd consider adding larger mill first. My Sherline mill still gets used, but where my Sherline lathe is usually my first choice for lathe work as long as it fits, I tend to go to the Clausing mill unless I'm doing something really small.


----------



## Peyton Price 17 (Feb 23, 2021)

Aukai said:


> 7 miles...Thanks for the fix on my information. My dad was a Navy plot, and I could only learn to fly if he was the instructor( he instructed aerobatics at Pensacola). No available aircraft here, and CAP was OUT, they were Air Force, he wasn't having it. He taught me to scuba, he learned from UDT instructors, I got beat up, but passed. I was bored when I went for national certification, PFFFT, that's all you got.


i´m also scuba certified. i saw lots of eels and fish some spider craps too. it is really cool, you can sneak up on big fish and sit there with them. when i got certified there was some huge bass 5+ pounds that you throw crayfish at. also saw some huge trout.


----------



## tjb (Feb 23, 2021)

ShagDog said:


> Thanks for the responses. They helped me to see that my question was a little silly, and I just needed a slight awakening. My conclusion and justification is that since I really like machining with a lathe, I should just get the best I can afford, and that will fit in my shop space  .


I hate to tell you, Shag, but your entire approach to your dilemma is flawed.  You're going about this backwards.  You don't need a bigger lathe.  Yet.  The first thing you need to do is build a bigger shop.

There are LOADS of threads here documenting how to do it the RIGHT way.  We'll be happy to guide you.  Just ask.  We're here to help.

Regards


----------



## tq60 (Feb 23, 2021)

We had atlas 12 inch...

Found lodge Shipley 16 x 54.

Garage full, built shop, shop full, never ends...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


----------



## tjb (Feb 23, 2021)

tq60 said:


> Garage full, built shop, shop full, never ends...


See what I mean?


----------



## ShagDog (Feb 23, 2021)

sycle1 said:


> Life is short, even shorter if you are over 60, buy the lathe, we don't need justification.
> On a wall hangs a million dollar painting, it doesn't do anything it just hangs and looks nice.



That is a great analogy. Now I can justify anything I want (and of course can afford).


----------



## .LMS. (Feb 23, 2021)

ShagDog said:


> That is a great analogy. Now I can justify anything I want (and of course can afford).


Not a joke, really.    At our age, why shouldn't we treat ourselves to stuff we want but don't need?   We've been working hard for 40+ years, time to sop up some of the gravy.  I recently bought a 1236T & VFD and I am having a blast tinkering, tweaking, tuning, acquiring tooling, playing, and learning.   It's kept me sane during this crazy covid crap.    Of course, having an understanding wife sure helps.   I just wish she'd quit asking me "but when are you gonna _*make*_ something...."


----------



## Janderso (Feb 23, 2021)

westerner said:


> A big machine will make better small parts than a small machine can make a big part.....


Yeah but making little parts on a big lathe and changing chucks is a real PITA.
Now I need a smaller lathe in addition to my large lathe.
See how this works


----------



## Al 1 (Feb 23, 2021)

You can take photos of it,  shine it,  admire it , show it to your friends. Yea go for it.  Al


----------



## Buffalo21 (Feb 23, 2021)

I saw a 36” x 20’ lathe for sale last week, looked at it for 45 second, wondered for a few more, then my boss asked if we we going to stop for lunch, before we left the job in Buffalo, or just head home.


----------



## visenfile (Feb 24, 2021)

This is thread therapy-thanks     ...too scroogy and conservative here.  Been torturing myself for years about buying a big lathe.  Not a project person, but a fixer.  My  splurge years ago was an HF round column mill/drill for $800.  Roundly criticized, but useful to me.
MIndset?   Only use it intermittently.  Every time I enter my (big) shop , "now what would I say to see a $8K lathe sitting with a dust cover?"  The advice of "patience" for a used has failed.  My part of  West coast does not contain so much and what I have found is used Asian lathes stuck with the $2500 number.  But mostly a problem moving them to the shop .  There is a void between rigging companies and CL furniture movers.  So to date I have not visited a single CL listing.  Got close after years of looking and was ready to check out a 13x40 when the guy called back and decided to keep.

So for me the new is the way largely because of shipping to residence.  (I can roll it in once set down in driveway. ) Thus a main draw is the two major competitors  shipping fees.  I have pursued shipping information on other low ball prices .  Some only cater to professionals which means ship to a depot for pickup.  I got a quote from Fed Ex for shipment from a depot only 30 miles away of $600!  Oh, and living in a heavily wooded area adjacent to wildfires  now suggests  contact with my friendly insurance company to obtain a quote.  I will post results.


----------



## macardoso (Feb 24, 2021)

Martin W said:


> Here you go! This just popped up for sale...Just kidding
> Cheers
> Martin
> 
> View attachment 356344


Spindle is on the wrong side lol. I'd make all my parts backwards.


----------



## visenfile (Feb 25, 2021)

Insurance spokesman..." take pic and sn of tool...keep in safe place for later claim as necessary."  Coverage is part of personal items .


----------



## 7milesup (Feb 25, 2021)

visenfile said:


> This is thread therapy-thanks     ...too scroogy and conservative here.  Been torturing myself for years about buying a big lathe.  Not a project person, but a fixer.  My  splurge years ago was an HF round column mill/drill for $800.  Roundly criticized, but useful to me.
> MIndset?   Only use it intermittently.  Every time I enter my (big) shop , "now what would I say to see a $8K lathe sitting with a dust cover?"  The advice of "patience" for a used has failed.  My part of  West coast does not contain so much and what I have found is used Asian lathes stuck with the $2500 number.  But mostly a problem moving them to the shop .  There is a void between rigging companies and CL furniture movers.  So to date I have not visited a single CL listing.  Got close after years of looking and was ready to check out a 13x40 when the guy called back and decided to keep.
> 
> So for me the new is the way largely because of shipping to residence.  (I can roll it in once set down in driveway. ) Thus a main draw is the two major competitors  shipping fees.  I have pursued shipping information on other low ball prices .  Some only cater to professionals which means ship to a depot for pickup.  I got a quote from Fed Ex for shipment from a depot only 30 miles away of $600!  Oh, and living in a heavily wooded area adjacent to wildfires  now suggests  contact with my friendly insurance company to obtain a quote.  I will post results.


Most companies have reasonable shipping if you buy a new lathe.  Eisen has "free" shipping and Precision Matthews has reasonable shipping fees of a few hundred dollars with lift gate upcharge of $49.  Equipment is shipped all over the country every day.  UPS and Fedex are probably two of the most expensive ones to call.  I am using a local LTL company to pick up my new lathe at a shipping distribution center and deliver to my door 50 miles away.  $150


----------



## erikmannie (Feb 25, 2021)

My neighbor right across the street is retired, and he has no hobby that I can see. He is bored, cranky and miserable.


----------



## Flyinfool (Feb 25, 2021)

As mentioned a few times, want is the only justification needed for a hobby. If it was a business you would have to consider ROI, but not for a hobby.



matthewsx said:


> It's a hobby, just be grateful you're not into boats or planes....


Tried the hole in the water to throw money into.

I do have my private license, I am also very much into RC aircraft. Everything from micro to turbine powered.


----------



## ErichKeane (Feb 25, 2021)

You were mentioned here shagdog  https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...works-for-500-clackamas-or.91010/#post-829687

How about a Larger CHEAP lathe?!  Driving distance from you I think, in the PDX area.


----------



## Janderso (Feb 25, 2021)

You know,
After reading through these posts,
Life is short. If you want a lathe, get the lathe of your dreams.
Taking out a second or even a first is not to be scoffed at.
I think if I wasn't married and I was in my current financial position, I'd go buy a new Clausing 15"
Like the one in this web site.
Let's live a little 









						8044VSJ - Clausing/Colchester Manual Engine Lathe 15.75” Swing over Bed, 3 Gear Infinitely Variable Speed Gap Bed Engine Lathe
					

Clausing/Colchester  15.75” Swing over bed, 3 Gear Infinitely Variable Speed Gap Bed Engine Lathe, 10 Hp Spindle motor, 50” between centers, 9.7” Swing over the cross slide, 15 to 2500 RPM, 2.12” Spindle Bore, D1-6 camlock spindle nose, 2.8” Tailstock quill diameter with 5 morse taper bore...




					clausing-industrial.com


----------



## ShagDog (Feb 25, 2021)

Erich, all I can say is: .


----------



## ShagDog (Mar 7, 2021)

Thanks again for all the responses. I think I have narrowed my choices. Unfortunately, although I really wanted the 1236T, after considering the size and weight, I really don't think I can fit it in my garage shop or even get it in there due to the mass of it. Also, I cannot afford it right now.

So, I am thinking of a PM1022v instead. It appears to be the perfect size, weight and price point. By the way, the price is quite extravagant for me; but, I can "justify" it . However, I also keep thinking of a South Bend 9a, if there is one to be found, where the ways are in very good condition. Not too many used lathes near me.

Probably better to start a new thread with other questions on which lathe.


----------



## Winegrower (Mar 7, 2021)

Janderso said:


> I think if I wasn't married and I was in my current financial position, I'd go buy a new Clausing 15"



Well, for some lathes, and some women, it might be worth doing the math.

Just kidding, dear...see, it’s just a website for guys... mainly...umm...logging off now.


----------



## rabler (Mar 7, 2021)

Justification?   I want ... is a good justification.    Maybe what you should really ask here is "what can I do with a bigger lathe?"

I started with a 10x22 Chinese made lathe (Grizzly), and have added three older lathes (Monarchs) 14x30, 12x20, and 26x48, that I'm fixing up to be workhorse.  And a WWII era mill.  These are my retirement toys. I'm having to build a new shop to put all the stuff in.  It'll be my third.  And I've gone the pilot/CFI/airplane route too, although sold the plane and have not been PIC in 15 years.


----------



## Aukai (Mar 7, 2021)

1228, baby brother to the big boys, and big brother of the smaller ones. Too bad Matt does not have a T in the smaller sizes.


----------



## ShagDog (Mar 7, 2021)

A "T" in smaller size would be awesome.


----------



## Aaron_W (Mar 7, 2021)

ShagDog said:


> Thanks again for all the responses. I think I have narrowed my choices. Unfortunately, although I really wanted the 1236T, after considering the size and weight, I really don't think I can fit it in my garage shop or even get it in there due to the mass of it. Also, I cannot afford it right now.
> 
> So, I am thinking of a PM1022v instead. It appears to be the perfect size, weight and price point. By the way, the price is quite extravagant for me; but, I can "justify" it . However, I also keep thinking of a South Bend 9a, if there is one to be found, where the ways are in very good condition. Not too many used lathes near me.
> 
> Probably better to start a new thread with other questions on which lathe.



If you don't need the larger swing and it sounds like you don't, then an older 9 or 10" lathe with a quick change gear box would probably suit you well. The big US brands are fairly obvious, but there are some good Taiwan machines imported in the 80s that would also be a good option.


----------

