# Making parts for an antique radio



## Mike6158 (Oct 1, 2019)

I made a post about this on another forum, it got hung up in moderation for three days, they released it, and then the site went down. Lets see how my luck holds up...

I volunteered to restore a coworkers 1941 Silvertone farm radio. It was his grandparents radio. They used it on their ranch in NE New Mexico. To this day it's a fairly remote area. It runs on a 90VDC and 2.5 VDC batteries. The 90V battery can be made from ten 9V batteries in series. That will last about 6 months. I've finished the electronic restoration and I'm not working on the only mechanical problem I've found. The dial pulleys are made of wood and one of them has failed. My initial plan was to make a new pulley from brass. Here's some photos to show what I need. I'm going to make both pulleys even though one is still good. More on that in a bit. No more skill than I have with my mini lathe I'll probably make a few that don't look like a pulley too. The "CAD" drawing was made with Mike CAD. The software is not for sale 






















The most pressing problem that I have is how to get the pulley off of the old (aluminum) shaft. I could chuck the hex end up and turn the ball down and then capture the new pulleys with a pin (1/16" hole to drill. That won't be fun). I could remake the shaft assembly out of brass, turn the axle to a larger diameter so it will be easier to drill, and then make the hole in the pulley larger. But I can't change the v groove OD, a little less than 1/4" so I can't increase the hole by much. Also, I don't know if brass on brass is a good idea. What's a good way to cut the v-groove. I thought about making a form tool but I really don't know how to do that. Thoughts? My guess is that this isn't a beginner project. That's one reason I bought 12" of stock


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## RJSakowski (Oct 1, 2019)

Since you are making new pulleys, you could just split the old ones to remove the shaft.  If you need the original for a pattetrn, you could glue the pieces back together again after removal. I don't expect that brass on bras would be a problem.  The duty cycle and rotational speed are very low.  A little light oil on the shaft will keep it operating for years.  

Pulleys were used in two ways on these old radios.  One was to convert rotational motion to linear motion and the other was to change direction of the linear motion.  Pulley diameter when changing direction is not critical within reason.  Tuning of the radios wa usually accomplished by rotating plates on a variable capacitor and the diameter of the pulley on the variable capacitor is critical to be in sync with the dial. Assuming that the tuining capacitor was not directly coupled to the tuning knob, the pulley on the tuning knob wouldn't be critical either.

If I would be making the pully, I would make a form tool with the angle matching th pulley groove.  I would cut the grove muich like cutting a thread, with the compound angle set at 1/2 the included angle of the pulley groove.  The actual angle won't be critical. The groove just has to capture the dial cord.   I would put a radius on the tip of the form tool to match the dial cord diameter.


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## matthewsx (Oct 1, 2019)

I suspect the originals were soaked then pressed onto the shaft where they shrunk to the point of being retained by the ball. 

While it might not be as much fun as making them from brass I would think about using wood. It obviously worked good for a really long time and would keep the radio all original if you haven’t modified anything else. 

I don’t know much about antique radios but can appreciate you doing the work for your friend

Welcome to the forum, 

John


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## Mike6158 (Oct 1, 2019)

Thanks very much for your replies. I suppose the best way to learn how to make a form tool is to make a form tool. I agree that brass on brass will be fine. Wood on aluminum lasted 78 years so it's probably fine too. 

In this case the tuning is different than what I've seen in other radios. Instead of dial cord moving a variable capacitor the dial cord moves a lever arm that raises and lowers ferrite cores in and out of coils (one for each band) and moves the dial pointer in the same cord. I should be able to match the inner OD of the pulley at least as close as wood is.

I thought about trying to make them out of wood but I feel like I'd be more likely to be successful with brass. I put a restoration post on the Antique Radio Forum and someone there also said that the pulleys were probably green (or wet) and were press on / shrink to fit. I don't throw any parts away. The original pulley assembly will stay with the radio. 

This is the third radio that I volunteered to repair gratis. All three have been a challenge  In the first one the insulation on every piece of wire was so brittle that touching it exposed a bare piece of wire. When there's 400 - 500 VDC in the radio bare wire is not an option. Wire routing is critical for noise suppression so I tack a new piece of wire to the old wire and fished it through. It sounds easier than it was but the radio knows how to sing now. 

Here's a shot of the electrical restoration for this one. It wasn't very complicated. Just a recap. The black stripe on each capacitor (yellow thing) is to mark the foil side, ie the lead that should be grounded for noise immunity:


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## RJSakowski (Oct 1, 2019)

I have worked on radios dating back to the 1920's and have never seen wooden pulleys.  Brass was commonly used.  Since you are using modern capacitors, the radio is not original any more nor is likely to ever be, given the scarcity of the old capacitors.  If you did use wood, I would suggest stabilizing the wood.  I would turn to a rough shape and then saturate the end grain with fresh cyanoacrylate (Super) glue.  It will wick into the wood grain creating a strong plastic composite.  After applying the glue allow several days for it to fully cure.  The odor of glue should have completely dissipated.  This allows for a better finish and really strengthens the thin sections.  . I used this approach making some button head rosettes with great success.  Super glue will also work well for fixing the pulleys to the shaft.

I have seen the ferrite core tuning before.  In my case, they were used on a push button radio.  Early automotive radios also used that method for tuning.


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## Mike6158 (Oct 1, 2019)

My oldest is mid 1930's. A lot of my projects are tube type Ham radios and tube test equipment. FM radios offer a challenge when it's time to align them but AM radios are pretty simple.

Even NOS caps from that era often won't pass a HV leakage test (and sometimes pass an ESR test). The electrolyte is usually long gone. Note that I didn't say all. I have run into so older caps that were still in good shape.

The Super Glue is idea is a great idea. If I could find some thin enough stock I could probably repair the existing pulley that way.


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## RobertB (Oct 1, 2019)

If you boil them for 15 minutes or so you should be able to pop the ball back through them. You could make new ones out of something with a little give, like abs or nylon, that would push on over the ball end.


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## Mike6158 (Oct 1, 2019)

RobertB said:


> If you boil them for 15 minutes or so you should be able to pop the ball back through them. You could make new ones out of something with a little give, like abs or nylon, that would push on over the ball end.



I ordered some nylon and ABS. I might give that a try too.


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## WarrenP (Oct 1, 2019)

RJSakowski said:


> I have worked on radios dating back to the 1920's and have never seen wooden pulleys.  Brass was commonly used.  Since you are using modern capacitors, the radio is not original any more nor is likely to ever be, given the scarcity of the old capacitors.




Actually, you cannot use old stock capacitors when rebuilding an old radio. Capacitors go bad just sitting in the shelf. Any refurbished radio has to have new caps.... they are actually safer too, it would be dangerous to use old capacitors.


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## RJSakowski (Oct 1, 2019)

WarrenP said:


> Actually, you cannot use old stock capacitors when rebuilding an old radio. Capacitors go bad just sitting in the shelf. Any refurbished radio has to have new caps.... they are actually safer too, it would be dangerous to use old capacitors.


Electrolytic capacitors go bad with time.  Provided the foil and wax paper capacitors are properly stored, there is no reason why they should go bad.


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## silence dogood (Oct 1, 2019)

For 25 yrs I worked on electronic organs with a sideline on radios.  Take the old electrolytic capacitors apart, remove the guts and put a new  cap inside the container.  Outside, it will look the same as the original.


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## RobertB (Oct 2, 2019)

silence dogood said:


> Take the old electrolytic capacitors apart, remove the guts and put a new  cap inside the container.  Outside, it will look the same as the original.



It is more difficult, but in most cases you can do that with the paper caps also. Modern film capacitors are smaller than the paper equivalent so you can drill out the core of the paper one to fit the new one inside.


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## Mike6158 (Oct 2, 2019)

I've restuffed electrolytic cans, single, and paper caps in test equipment, ham radio gear (my two favorite things to work on), and AM or AM/FM radios. I got away from doing that. The "guts" aren't on display and the people that I restore for (myself and friends) don't care about the illusion of period perfect anyway. Ie it's not a visual restoration, it's a functional restoration.


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## RJSakowski (Oct 2, 2019)

Mike6158 said:


> I've restuffed electrolytic cans, single, and paper caps in test equipment, ham radio gear (my two favorite things to work on), and AM or AM/FM radios. I got away from doing that. The "guts" aren't on display and the people that I restore for (myself and friends) don't care about the illusion of period perfect anyway. Ie it's not a visual restoration, it's a functional restoration.


My kind of restoration.  When I first got into electronics, I repaired a number of pre-WW2 radios.  One trick that I used was to replace defunct rectifier tubes with silicon rectifiers, using the tube base for the module.  The same for selenium rectifiers.  

What do you do about tube replacements?  Have you done any solid state substitutes?  I have seen where FET's have been used to replace tubes, pentodes, as I recall, but haven't tried it myself.


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## silence dogood (Oct 2, 2019)

RJ, Mike,  I agree with you, However, when you get a customer that wants the antique radio restored like it was "original". As long as they are willing to pay for it, they got it.


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## bhigdog (Oct 2, 2019)

Wood is likely the very least desirable material for the pulleys. Check McMaster Carr for any number of composites/laminates that would be suitable and mimic the appearance of wood.
Twer it me I'd cut the wood pulley off, Grind a form tool to the groove dimensions, plunge cut the grooves in a suitable material rod and epoxy the pulley on the shaft.   Little more than 30 minutes total including grinding the tool............Bob


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## bhigdog (Oct 2, 2019)

McMaster garolite 1/2" rod would be ideal. Stock # 8526K82. About $5 per foot plus shipping...............Bob


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## Mike6158 (Oct 2, 2019)

RJSakowski said:


> My kind of restoration.  When I first got into electronics, I repaired a number of pre-WW2 radios.  One trick that I used was to replace defunct rectifier tubes with silicon rectifiers, using the tube base for the module.  The same for selenium rectifiers.
> 
> What do you do about tube replacements?  Have you done any solid state substitutes?  I have seen where FET's have been used to replace tubes, pentodes, as I recall, but haven't tried it myself.



When I restore for me and the tube is good (with the exception of some of the notorious transformer killing tubes that I can't remember the number of) I'll keep it. I always put a solid state rectifier into radios that belong to others. And a fuse. I don't want to own some burnt out house


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## samstu (Oct 2, 2019)

This is a good 3d printer project.  There are even wood infused plastics.  Plus plastic takes paint well.  Additionally, changes are a simple matter in CAD and a new pulley with minimal infill for testing purposes wouldn't take long to print.  I'm not sure if there's a gcode generator in MikeCAD.  lol.....

Printed pulleys could be glued or even melted onto warmed shaft.

I don't know too much about radios but I'm wondering if brass pulleys would cause radio interference.  

I'm not too fluent in MikeCad but I think the most critical measurements are the relative diameters of the pulleys as this looks to either step up or step down movement and that ratio may be critical to the application and I didn't see those diameters on the "printout"

But no worries, the moderator will shut this conversation down soon due to your thinly veiled attempt to mass market that CAD package......


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## Mike6158 (Oct 2, 2019)

We had some discussion at work about creating the pulley's with a 3D printer. A guy I work with has one and he's pretty good with it. I, on the other hand, have had my lathe for nearly a year and a half and have done nothing useful with it. So it it only takes a foot of stock to make two pulleys then I can justify buying a mill  Two foot of stock? BONUS I can add a DRO to the mill...

About the only g-code my software does is when I look at code I say... gee... that's code? I don't know if I can do that  I can program PLC's (mostly Allen Bradley ControlLogix) though. I have what used to be called an OtherMill circuit board mill and it's software will use gcode. I milled out some openings in a box enclosure faceplate once. I used Fusion 360 to create the part then the gcode. It took me forever to create the part 

The pulley won't be an interference issue other than it won't match the other wood pulleys.

Upper right corner-ish. MikeCAD uses a highly sophisticated interface... 0.304" inner diameter of the pulley


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## Mike6158 (Oct 3, 2019)

bhigdog said:


> McMaster garolite 1/2" rod would be ideal. Stock # 8526K82. About $5 per foot plus shipping...............Bob



That's pretty interesting material. Non-metallic, insulating, and very hard. Thanks for the info!


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## RJSakowski (Oct 3, 2019)

Garolite, aka Bakelite, was an early plastic, second only to celluloid, and was widely used in electronic equipment from the beginning.  It would be an appropriate substitute for the wood in the pulleys.


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## bhigdog (Oct 3, 2019)

RJSakowski said:


> Garolite, aka Bakelite, was an early plastic, second only to celluloid, and was widely used in electronic equipment from the beginning.  It would be an appropriate substitute for the wood in the pulleys.



Plus, I really like the smell when it's machined but that's likely just me.............Bob


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## JPMacG (Oct 4, 2019)

Garolite (aka G10, FR4) is a common circuit board substrate and a structural material used in RF and high voltage electrical circuits.  It is very abrasive to machine - a real tooling destroyer.  I learned this the stupid way.

Restoring old radios looks like a lot of fun.  I plan to restore some early 1950s vintage ham radio equipment some day.


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## bhigdog (Oct 4, 2019)

There are many kinds/grades of Garolite including G-10 which is fiberglass reinforced and is very abrasive. the XX grade I recommended is paper reinforced, fine grained, and machines well with HSS tooling................Bob


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## Silverbullet (Oct 12, 2019)

In my teens I loved working on old radios and tv's . Now most of the things I had are worth tons of money. The old round tv with rotatable picture tube , and the little bakelite radio's ,tubes by the hundreds . All thrown out cause I got into motorcycles . Even had big console radios wood furniture , well made in America . We really were great I remember the tuner using pulleys on some I repaired . If your using brass you can make it last for another fifty years.


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## Mike6158 (Oct 14, 2019)

Well... I spent about an hour and half in Fusion 360 plus about an hour with a set of calipers and the two pulleys and I have a drawing. There aren't any dimensions on the drawing because I couldn't figure out where Fusion 360 hides that command. I measured everything and it's within range of what I need it to be (bear in mind I'm talking 4 decimal places and I doubt if I measured that the original that well). Now I need to turn a couple of pulleys so I have the dimension I need for the spindle, and then make the spindle in Fusion 360 (for my own purposes). Then turn the spindle. It has a short bit of 6-32 threads on one end, a hex flat, and a spindle with a hole in the end to capture the pulleys. I have the hex stock I need so... onward through the fog...


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## Mike6158 (Oct 15, 2019)

I figured out how to dimension the drawing and started making chips. I'm afraid the v-groove is going to be my nemesis... I plunged the tool in the photo in .030" (I had already backed out when I took the photo). I kept checking the flange width until it was close to the desired dimension and that's where I stopped. You're looking at two pulleys with a parting tool line between them and at the left side of the last pulley.







The groove is supposed to be about 160°, I'm not sure what the angle of the tool I was using is. I was thinking about changing to a parting tool and setting the angle of the tool to 79° (I know, not quite half but that seems to be what works dimensionally) and going in that way, but I only want 0.004" of width at the bottom and the parting tool is wider than that. I suppose I could thin it down on a grinder but I don't know how well it will hold up.

The other end of the rod has a #47 drill bit broken off in the end of it otherwise I might be farther along. Cheap bits and trying to hurry the last 1/8" teamed up on me. Stock is 5/8" silica bronze. Finished diameter is supposed to be 0.520" and I left it 0.002" larger. I didn't think the radio would notice the extra 0.002" in diameter. Lets hope these parts survive the final finishing operations


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## Mike6158 (Oct 17, 2019)

Pulley's are done. Not perfect but they'll work.






Now for the part that I think is going to be the hardest. The spindle. 1/2" of shaft for the pulleys, 0.090" in diameter, followed by a 0.050" thick 1/4" hex (I'm using 1/4" hex stock since I don't have a mill), and 0.120" of 6-32 threads (I planned for a 0.050 gutter between the threads and the hex).

I think turning down 1/2" of brass to 0.090" is going to be pita.


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## Mike6158 (Oct 17, 2019)

It turns out that it's not that making the spindle is not hard to do. I'm almost finished (maybe). The spindle is .020" too small... I made a parting tool cut .020" too deep but I planned to offset out .020" when I cut the rest of the spindle. Except I forgot to do that and made it all the same. The pulleys work but there's a little slop. It's not a precision device but it's the principle. The wood pulley's wobble a little too. 

There's a bit too much thread, maybe 1/16" but that'll stick out of the bracket just a little and it's inside a case. I may file it down. And there's the gutter at the back of the threads. I used a parting tool. It should only be .050", same as the hex flat thickness.The original had a lock washer and about 1/2 the gutter width this one has. 

The biggest screwup, maybe, is not drilling the hole where I need it in the end BEFORE I cut the spindle all the way down. We'll see how that goes, I may be making another one...

Drilling a .040 hole in a .070 diameter spindle didn't go very well, so I cut it off and peened it. The end pulley doesn't turn so I think I'll rebuild it. The right diameter spindle will make drilling the hole easier. I wonder if I should just groove it and use a really small snap ring? Nothing like practice to improve things...


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## Mike6158 (Oct 18, 2019)

Round 2 for the spindle. I left it long because I'm not sure what to do about capturing the pulley's. My smallest drill bit is .040". My first attempt at drilling the spindle failed miserably. The little MicroLux drill I have is not a bad drill. The vise sucks. It's intended for model making not metal working. I need to come up with an easier solution for keeping the pulleys on the shaft. I want them to spin freely so Super Glue is out.  

The original pulley's and aluminum spindle are in the baggie, almost finished pulleys and spindle are below the bag. The old spindle is to the right.


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## RobertB (Oct 18, 2019)

How about push on retaining rings? https://www.mcmaster.com/retaining-rings


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## Mike6158 (Oct 18, 2019)

RobertB said:


> How about push on retaining rings? https://www.mcmaster.com/retaining-rings



That will work. The size I need (1/16") comes in a box of 200 so I should be able to get one to go on


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## RobertB (Oct 18, 2019)

You just need to find 199 more radios to restore


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## Mike6158 (Oct 21, 2019)

Well this has been a new "thing" every time I turn around. My quick change tool post is an OXO. I ordered a pretty nice 5/8" grooving tool holder and insert from McMaster Carr so I could finish this thing. I don't know why but I thought the OXO holders I have would go up to 5/8". Nyet... 1/2" %*#((% so plan B, use the parting tool to grove the shaft very slightly, just set it back so that it's only a few thousands outside of where the other pulley runs. It didn't go smoothly but it went. Project complete. It only took 3 c-clips, the third one was a charm, the other two? Who knows where they went...

Top view






End on view showing the little clip. 0.500" diameter on the pulley's


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## RobertB (Oct 21, 2019)

Nicely done!

Now you get to see how many c-clips you can lose trying to put it on after the shaft is mounted in the radio


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## Cobrage401 (Mar 25, 2020)

Hello all 

I know this is a old thread however I also restore old tube radios. Just now restoring a Atlas 10D lathe for the shop and that progress is posted in the project section. 

Was wondering how the final radio turned out for you? 

Thanks 
Dave  

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk


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## silence dogood (Mar 25, 2020)

Just got through working on two radios for a friend.  The Atwater-Kent 20c got it so it will pick up a station. The Grebe Mu-1 unfortunately had the center tuning cap too seriously damaged.  The workmanship on both radios is just amazing.


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## Cobrage401 (Mar 25, 2020)

Nice!! I have also completed a Atwater Kent model 20 sometime ago. Its sitting in my living room with the matching speaker horn. 

Wonder if we have enough people interested in this we may start a group? 

I'm working on my lathe and mill so a bit slow on radios at the moment however machinist or like me tinkering machines lol I have learned go hand and hand with restoration of old radios at times. 

Dave 

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Mike6158 (Mar 25, 2020)

Cobrage401 said:


> Hello all
> 
> I know this is a old thread however I also restore old tube radios. Just now restoring a Atlas 10D lathe for the shop and that progress is posted in the project section.
> 
> ...



I literally just put the radio back on my bench this weekend. I still haven't manned up and restrung the dial. The pulleys are installed (n c-clips were lost much to my surprise). When I tested the radio with a homebuilt AC driven supply there was a very loud buzz as I tuned and landed on what I thought might be a station so I shut it down. I thought it might be the supply but I'm starting to think a resistor has gone bad. Maybe silver mica disease but I've dealt with that and this was different. I don't know yet but I plan to dig into it soon.


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## Cobrage401 (Mar 25, 2020)

Sound great!! Photos would also be nice  

Regarding the dial .. if you don't know maybe radiodaz has a aftermarket one. 

The load humming noise is a sure indicator of bad electrolytic caps or inside the canister condenser. Just my thoughts. I have also restored radios and as always replaced ALL caps and still had a hum until I found that my florescent lights was getting into the radio lol lol. 

Looking forward to the outcome... now I'm back to my Atlas 10D lathe restoration. 

Dave 

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Mike6158 (Mar 25, 2020)

I recapped it (electrolytics). I started rebuilding radios, then moved on to test equipment. I'm away from my normal workbench so I don't have access to all of my toys (including my little lathe). 

The hum was really bad. Actually... I think a put a short video on YouTube.

Yup, I did. - 




It's not pretty but it's got audio of what I was hearing as I tuned across the AM band

The Antique Radio Forum (ARF) is a really good resource.





__





						Antique Radio Forums • View forum - Category
					





					www.antiqueradios.com
				




I have the same username there.

Regarding the dial - Radio Daze let me down on another radio that I really need to finish. Both dials were gone when I got it. Gone as in terrible shape. I put the pieces of the dials together on my scanner and did a 1:1 scan of the two dials I need. Very high resolution. I sent it to them in an email and they never replied. Nothing.


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## Cobrage401 (Mar 25, 2020)

Sounds to me like two problems... 

1) the actual humming noise sounds somewhat normal in your video. I'd check and make sure all the foil side of the capacitors were placed correctly I.E foil side to ground or eliminating the noise in the correct direction. 

2) maybe you have a spectrum analyzer or a rf generator that is able to sweep the IF. If you replaced the mica caps in the cans or in the IF chain you will probably need to align the IF again. Actually the mica caps were hand picked at the factory of almost all radios so when its been aligned the dial will track properly. That loud nasty noise is a good indicator to me regarding IF alignment. 

Just another thought is to check all the coils for broken wires this was very common for they had no protection from lightning back in the day. Any static that came down the Oooo very long outside antenna would destroy the coils. 

I have many ham radio receivers in my shop that I will need to rewind coils when I get to them that is lol. 

Just my thoughts we all have them lol 

Great thread... looking forward to the progress  

Dave 

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Mike6158 (Mar 25, 2020)

(1) All of my caps have the foil side marked (I marked them) and I replaced them one for one so I couldn't screw it up. "One of these days" I'm going to build Paul Carlson's foil side tester but in the meantime I used an audio sig gen and signal tracer to id the foil side. The only thing I didn't test were resistors. It's a battery radio so "normally" power is pure DC. 

(2) I didn't get into the IF cans or touch any mica caps. The tuning section of this radio (farm radio from the late 40's) is made up of iron cores the move up and down through coils not the usual rotating plate variable cap.

I have an SA but not a good RF sig gen. here. It's at home. My work bench at home (there's a vice for gun repair under the rags in the left):






This is the little AC power supply that I made (HV and filament supply). The board was milled on my Othermill (it has a new name now but that's what it was called when I bought it):






Osh Park version of the same board:






Recapped radio


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## Cobrage401 (Mar 26, 2020)

One of these days" I'm going to build Paul Carlson's foil side tester

Yeah I'm in the same boat lol ..

Dave  

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk


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## silence dogood (Mar 27, 2020)

I looked up Paul Carlson on his hum testing capacitors.  Instead of a scope, one can use an audio amp.  If the hum is weak, foil side. Reverse the cap, the hum will be loud.  In the late 1970s I worked on Kimball organs.  You could trace the problem by touching different places on the circuit boards with your finger and listen for the hum.  No hum, that is where the problem most likely be. Before I forget to mention these instruments were low voltage solid state.  I'm sure that this technique would work on tube organs, but it might get a bit exciting.


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## silence dogood (Mar 27, 2020)

Cobrage401 said:


> Nice!! I have also completed a Atwater Kent model 20 sometime ago. Its sitting in my living room with the matching speaker horn.
> 
> Wonder if we have enough people interested in this we may start a group?
> 
> ...


Before I worked on the Atwater-Kent 20c, I built a cradle to hold the chassis when it was out of the case.  Made it a lot easier to work on.  Tuning was a piece of cake,  You take your antenna touch the capacitor of the grid of the detector, then tune that dial.  Do the same on 2nd rf, Then finally on the first rf.  Just don't forget to write the dial numbers down.  Sorry I don't have a picture of the cradle.  Maybe after this virus thing is over, I can run over and see my friend get a picture.


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## Cobrage401 (Apr 9, 2020)

Just wondering if you had any progress on your radio? 

Dave 

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk


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