# Arbor press bits?



## ttabbal (Nov 19, 2021)

So I picked up a press. The ram has a bore at the bottom with a screw for holding a bit of some sort. It looks like they typically come with round, pointed, and squared bits that go there. Do I need them? If so, is there something special about them? I would think they would be easy to make with hardening steel like O1 or similar. The uses I have for it are mostly press fitting parts and broaching keyways, etc..


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## francist (Nov 19, 2021)

Might depend on what you're doing with it. If using it as an anvil to move metal or drive roll pins a hard tip would probably be better and last longer. For driving broaches though, an unhardened pad is less slippery and gives a bit of grip to the end of the broach. Kind of like using a brass hammer on a centre punch vs a steel one. I made a simple round pad / disc for my press out of 1018, works fine.

-frank


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## ttabbal (Nov 19, 2021)

Thanks. Right now I'm leaning toward making one from mild steel and one from O1 to harden later. I have a few parts I'm planning to harden, so I guess I might as well toss that in while I'm at it. Thanks for the thoughts, I've never had one with the optional tips so I wasn't sure what they are used for. It seems like you could make various kinds for cold forming sheet metal, though I expect a hydro press is a better tool for most of that sort of thing.


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## C-Bag (Nov 19, 2021)

It all depends on what you’re doing. For my kind of sheet metal forming it is the only way to go. In the old 1920 catalog I have for my screw press they call the arbor press a speed press. So the slowest is hydraulic, second fastest is the screw press and fastest is an arbor press. I’ve thought of drilling the end of my arbor press to make a receiver but opted to just using square tubing to make attachments. Right now I’ve got a 2” wide piece of 1018 CR on there for making small bends on a piece of square tubing. Next I think I’ll make a receiver to mount different size round dapping tools. Really for like 22ga galvanized your imagination is the limit with an arbor press. Another project is to make a “tuck puck” to use with the dapping tools for form tucks for shrinking edges for making curves and bowels. i can make small tucks with just a dapping tool and hockey puck.


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## woodchucker (Nov 19, 2021)

ttabbal said:


> Thanks. Right now I'm leaning toward making one from mild steel and one from O1 to harden later. I have a few parts I'm planning to harden, so I guess I might as well toss that in while I'm at it. Thanks for the thoughts, I've never had one with the optional tips so I wasn't sure what they are used for. It seems like you could make various kinds for cold forming sheet metal, though I expect a hydro press is a better tool for most of that sort of thing.


I put pin punches, pointed punches, you name it in my hydraulic press. Whatever gets the job done. My anvil is made of O1 as well. I haven't hardened it, but it is pretty hard to begin with. having the hole is great, it gives you so many options. You can make a holder to press numbers, or letters rather than hitting them. I did that for plastic, I was afraid I was going to shatter the plastic by hitting it repeatedly. But pressing the numbers in did the trick, and they were even, rather than off because of angle.


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## NC Rick (Nov 19, 2021)

a Round and soft (like aluminum) end is handy for pushing in pins, bushings and bearings, even some seals in flat and flush.


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## C-Bag (Nov 19, 2021)

Delrin and UHMW wonderful for forming and leave no marks. They are incredibly tough too.


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## ttabbal (Nov 19, 2021)

Nice! I hadn't considered using aluminum, but it makes sense that a non-marring end could be useful. I like the idea for stamps as well. I hadn't even considered some of those uses for the press.


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## keeena (Nov 20, 2021)

OP: yes, I would use dies in the end of your ram if its designed for it. I feel like its a much better route than using the ram end directly - avoids mushrooming the ram and lets you add all sorts of shapes, materials, etc...like other's have mentioned.

The last press I bought didn't have this and was a bit beat up. I faced & bored the ram to 0.500" and added a setscrew.. If you go this route: use flats on the die shaft and brass tips on the set screw to avoid marring up the bore when you remove the die. I also make sure the die seats on the end of the ram to bear the pressing weight (_the shaft doesn't bottom out in the bore_). To save metal I weld half inch stock to a small counterbore in the die then final machine the weld & die so its a clean 90* corner and squared up relative to the shaft.


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## C-Bag (Nov 20, 2021)

This is the old version of my press blade. Kinda flimsy but was a good test.


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## woodchucker (Nov 20, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> This is the old version of my press blade. Kinda flimsy but was a good test.


That reminds me, I also made a knife to bend things. Yep, handy as all getup.


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## C-Bag (Nov 20, 2021)

keeena said:


> avoids mushrooming the ram


My old Jet 2tn came out of a machine shop and looks like it was used extensively, but not as abused as I’ve seen. No bent lever arm where a cheater was used. It had no mushrooming on the work end, but had obviously been beaten on the top of the ram and was mushroomed there. As was the top of the screw on my screw press. Both had to be dressed before I could remove them.

That would seem to me mushrooming happens from impact not from steady pressure. Just an observation.


woodchucker said:


> Yep, handy as all getup.


Agreed. I had no idea how handy when I picked it up. The biggest reason I prefer both the screw and arbor to hydraulic is the “feel”. For the kind of stuff I’ve used it for like straightening sheetmetal and straightening a small rack on my shaper that feel was essential. Hydraulic has its uses but for sheetmetal and broaching it’s like taking a shower with a raincoat.


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## NC Rick (Nov 20, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> This is the old version of my press blade. Kinda flimsy but was a good test.


Nice!  Instructional too.  Something I really haven’t found many good resources on and a place where others ideas are tremendously helpful.


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## NC Rick (Nov 20, 2021)

One arbor press I have has a hole, the other doesn’t.  C-bag your square tube idea is maybe better than me adding a hole?  I use the square end too.  The Hydraulic press has removable ends.  I haven’t made others yet.


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## C-Bag (Nov 20, 2021)

NC Rick said:


> One arbor press I have has a hole, the other doesn’t.  C-bag your square tube idea is maybe better than me adding a hole?  I use the square end too.  The Hydraulic press has removable ends.  I haven’t made others yet.
> View attachment 386040
> View attachment 386041
> View attachment 386042


Wow! Nice setup Rick! I decided to go the square tube route because what I wanted to mount was so varied dia as in the dapping/doming tools I figured it was easier. My plan was to either make a mount for one of those small tailstock 3jaw chucks or try a square tube mount with a v block with a set screw for the doming tools. A hole in the ram might mean less stickout but then it would need some kind of plug for when I broach. Yeah, I know, pretty convoluted thinking. But what it is.

The square tube has really worked out for the blade tool because being able to rotate 90deg the tool for getting into specific places. I used it a LOT when de-schwangling sheetmetal after running a bead. Taking the blade and hockey puck and running down the sides of the beads really helped stretch the metal back to lay flat and take out the oil canning. I came up with that just on a hunch, not YouTube. And it worked. Beads are notorious for causing chaos through shrinkage and the edge of the bead not being flat anymore I realized. Ultimately it would be great to have a dual blade to be able to do both sides of the bead at a time. But then it would take twice as much pressure so who knows if that would work or not. I also found the single blade useful because depending on the amount of open space around the different sides of bead it would have different amounts of shrinkage.


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## NC Rick (Nov 20, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> Wow! Nice setup Rick! I decided to go the square tube route because what I wanted to mount was so varied dia as in the dapping/doming tools I figured it was easier. My plan was to either make a mount for one of those small tailstock 3jaw chucks or try a square tube mount with a v block with a set screw for the doming tools. A hole in the ram might mean less stickout but then it would need some kind of plug for when I broach. Yeah, I know, pretty convoluted thinking. But what it is.
> 
> The square tube has really worked out for the blade tool because being able to rotate 90deg the tool for getting into specific places. I used it a LOT when de-schwangling sheetmetal after running a bead. Taking the blade and hockey puck and running down the sides of the beads really helped stretch the metal back to lay flat and take out the oil canning. I came up with that just on a hunch, not YouTube. And it worked. Beads are notorious for causing chaos through shrinkage and the edge of the bead not being flat anymore I realized. Ultimately it would be great to have a dual blade to be able to do both sides of the bead at a time. But then it would take twice as much pressure so who knows if that would work or not. I also found the single blade useful because depending on the amount of open space around the different sides of bead it would have different amounts of shrinkage.


Is there something wrong with convoluted thinking?   I am really poor at sheet metal work or metal forming.  I respect it a lot.  A wonderful  friend of mine is good at it and raises vessels from mokume.Marvin’s Bowl
he has taught me much but not near enough!  In school we had to make little metal pails with a wire beaded edge.  Mine sucked!
  I think the little arbor presses are underrated as general purpose shop tools with jigs and tooling to fit them is a subject just not covered enough. I know I can’t imagine even a small percentage of what can be done with one. The feel and precision is unequaled.  The old gray one was given to me 40 years ago.  The little Dake was purchased new out of respect to the men and women in Grand Haven mi. who still produce things the right way in North America.  It cost several times what a harbor fright one cost but I use it a lot and appreciate the tool every time.  I hope it is appreciated by many more people after my “tool time” passes.


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## C-Bag (Nov 20, 2021)

Marvin’s bowl is very beautiful. I wish there was an explanation or stepped overview. That’s where I get the deep appreciation. Right now it’s a beautiful piece, but when I see what it was before then I have comprehension and with it deep appreciation.

I‘d never used an arbor press before I had to make a bunch of conveyor drive and take up drums and had to broach them all. I spent several days on the arbor press and came to appreciate it. That got it on the long range radar. It took probably 5-10yrs as I wanted a bigger like 3ton w/ratchet but they were all waaaay to much. Then this one came up for $35 so it had to be.

 But then when I had to precision straighten that gear rack on the shaper with the AP and feeler gauges to get an accurate straighten I was hooked on “outside the box uses”. Forming sheetmetal accurately without hammers is amazing. Without supporting tools like a lathe and mill, it has its standard uses. But it finally comes into what it can really do with machine tools to create whatever is needed.

I gotta say I don’t get why your AP’s are not on the edge of the tables where you can work on long stuff vertically, like broaching? I guess all that goes in your big press? I won’t broach on a hydraulic press. I put my AP on a portable stand with a through notch and table underneath for longer stuff. I don’t do heavy pressing on it, it’s just a 2tn. I have the old 22tn Manley screw for HD stuff.

Have you seen http://www.tuckpuck.com/


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## NC Rick (Nov 20, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> Marvin’s bowl is very beautiful. I wish there was an explanation or stepped overview. That’s where I get the deep appreciation. Right now it’s a beautiful piece, but when I see what it was before then I have comprehension and with it deep appreciation.
> 
> I‘d never used an arbor press before I had to make a bunch of conveyor drive and take up drums and had to broach them all. I spent several days on the arbor press and came to appreciate it. That got it on the long range radar. It took probably 5-10yrs as I wanted a bigger like 3ton w/ratchet but they were all waaaay to much. Then this one came up for $35 so it had to be.
> 
> ...


I have two sets of holes on the steel bench.  I very seldom push things out that are long.  Both my arbor presses are half ton, so small.  I’d love a big one with the ratchet and handle counterweight.  I have looked for a long time. while I have a broach set, I think I have only broached one key slot in an I.D. In my life. fortunately , there is still time


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## C-Bag (Nov 20, 2021)

NC Rick said:


> fortunately , there is still time


Yes there is. 

As far as I’m aware the arbor press is seen as an unnecessary piece of equipment. And I’ve not seen anybody used like I do. But I suspect the TuckPuck guy does. On the sheetmetal forum I frequent nobody seems to use it. Most only press bearings etc with it and fewer still broach.

When i found that rack bent on my shaper I was just going to go ahead and buy another off eBay because I’ve tried to straighten things like that with a hydraulic press with no cigar. But I thought why not? To be sure it had never dawned on me to use feeler gauges to calibrate my unbend, but it turned out the feel was crucial. I could feel the rack giving. I ended up being able to put the recalibrated rack into service. I think I can count on one finger the number of times that’s happened.

I used my doming tools with a hammer and a beater bag to crisp up the ends of my beads. I think the doming tools in the AP would be way more controlled.

Most of my favorite metal formers are car/hotrod guys. I’m not into car metal, but the techniques are the same and they do some fabulous work.


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## keeena (Nov 21, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> That would seem to me mushrooming happens from impact not from steady pressure. Just an observation.


Agreed. The top of this particular ram was also hammered on by the PO for extra oomph and likely why there was a bit of mess on the business end.

@NC Rick - you could always do both the bore and square adapters. Best of both worlds.  Nice looking shop BTW. I like that depth stop on that 1 arbor press.


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## Weldingrod1 (Nov 21, 2021)

Here's a trick: super cheap Aluminum chuck, sticks on with magnets. Make sure your pin goes all the way through!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








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## NC Rick (Nov 21, 2021)

keeena said:


> Agreed. The top of this particular ram was also hammered on by the PO for extra oomph and likely why there was a bit of mess on the business end.
> 
> @NC Rick - you could always do both the bore and square adapters. Best of both worlds.  Nice looking shop BTW. I like that depth stop on that 1 arbor press.


Thank you for complementing my mess!  I use the stop with a return spring for multiple parts.  In that case, inserting tiny roll pins which are a PITA!


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## NC Rick (Nov 21, 2021)

Weldingrod1 said:


> Here's a trick: super cheap Aluminum chuck, sticks on with magnets. Make sure your pin goes all the way through!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that’s cool!


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## keeena (Nov 22, 2021)

Weldingrod1 said:


> Here's a trick: super cheap Aluminum chuck, sticks on with magnets. Make sure your pin goes all the way through!


Now that we've entered sketchy territory...

I made this for my other arbor press which has a threaded bore from the PO. I realize sockets may not be ideal to press with, but convenient in a pinch.


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## woodchucker (Nov 22, 2021)

keeena said:


> Now that we've entered sketchy territory...
> 
> I made this for my other arbor press which has a threaded bore from the PO. I realize sockets may not be ideal to press with, but convenient in a pinch.
> 
> View attachment 386189


great idea. Wish I had thought of that first   , I think we all use sockets to press the outer or inner part of whatever we are pressing. Or to clear the item that we want to push out.


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## C-Bag (Nov 22, 2021)

keeena said:


> I realize sockets may not be ideal to press with, but convenient in a pinch.


yup, don't use them in the 22tn, but the 2tn arbor press. I've gathered all kinds of pipe scraps and keep them on the side of my AP with magnets.


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## NC Rick (Nov 22, 2021)

keeena said:


> Now that we've entered sketchy territory...
> 
> I made this for my other arbor press which has a threaded bore from the PO. I realize sockets may not be ideal to press with, but convenient in a pinch.
> 
> View attachment 386189


Sockets are terrible press tools which I only use when they fit!  Way quicker than making one


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## Weldingrod1 (Nov 24, 2021)

I love that socket adapter!

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## brino (Nov 24, 2021)

Weldingrod1 said:


> I love that socket adapter!



Me too! it's already on my project list.... maybe even three: 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2".
Last night I drilled, tapped and installed a thread repair kit to my upper press block just for this......

-brino


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## Alcap (Nov 25, 2021)

After reading all these posts I thought I would drill and tap my HF 20 ton press so I can screw some different ends/points . Got the hole drilled , tomorrow I’ll tap it and make some ends out of grade 8 bolts


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## keeena (Nov 27, 2021)

@Alcap - living with both styles, I'd go with a non-threaded bore and set screw. I feel tools are a bit easier to make. But as long as all your tooling is designed to bear weight on the ram and not the threads: you should be good to go.

I just made a 3/8" socket adapter for my new arbor press last night. Here's some #'s in case it helps:

Ball bearing diameter: 0.1855"
Bore: center of bore was 0.205" away from the tool face which the socket will butt up against. Drill with #15 to 0.300" deep, then ream to 0.1865"
Spring: 0.160" in diameter, wire size is 0.023". I cut a length 0.250".
The distance between the detent ball to the weight-bearing face could vary a bit depending on your sockets. The measurement I used results in the detent engaging a slight bit before the socket bottoms on the face of the tool.

My last tool looked a bit sloppy with the punch marks to retain the ball, so this time around I wanted to properly swage. I found that a 5/16"-18 set screw works as a swaging tool in a pinch. You'll want to use the allen head side to do the swaging and put a pin the allen head as a pusher to depress the ball. This little bit of metal should stick up out of the allen head by just a little bit to ensure the ball is depressed enough before the tool contacts the surface.

I made a quick press tool to hold the set screw in my press so it wouldn't launch sideways across the garage. The metal pin i used was a cutoff from a finishing nail. I did end up making it quite a bit shorter than what you see here, but should give you an idea.




Final result. The 2 rings are because I didn't properly center the tool the first time. It was easy to set the ball using a 3T arbor press. Seeing that there's only 1-thou of clearance, it doesn't need much to deform and retain the ball.


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## ttabbal (Nov 27, 2021)

Nice trick on the swaging tool! I might have to make one as I would like to put detent balls in a couple of things. 

I made a simple flat puck end for mine last night. Just 303 stainless, because I can cut it quickly and it was the right size  . I used 1.25" to match up closely with the press ram. The hole is 0.5" and the holding bolt is about 0.25" up, but the bore is only about 0.75" deep, so I went with 0.5" long to make sure the puck sits against the ram, the screw just keeps it from falling out. Broached a little gear keyway with it, worked great.


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## Weldingrod1 (Nov 28, 2021)

Cheating with start parts; 1/4" hex adapters!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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