# AXA, BXA What the HEXA!!!



## CNC Dude

Group,

When it comes to Quick Change Tool Posts, I imagine there are some standards out there, right? I see Aloris, Phase II and imports have different nomenclature. Since I was duped into thinking I was acquiring an Aloris tool set (ARG! Why didn't I check better???) I am not really certain what I have. Some of the tool holders are in fact Aloris, but the tool post and the other tool holders are definitely a Chinese knock off. I am thinking I have AXA. How do I know?

And if I do have AXA, I have seen there is AXA2, AXA19? What the hickory hock?

On the other hand, I see a number such as 250-10x on the knock offs. I have seen that PHASE II uses these numbers, although my holders do not say PHASE II, hence I assume they are imports.

Here are the numbers I have:

250-101
250-102
250-104
250-107
AXA2

Curiously, the AXA2 looks quite similar to the 250-102, so should I assume this is the secret code? An Aloris Tool will be AXA#, whereas a PHASE II and knock offs will be 250-10#?


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## DMS

There aren't so much standards,  as there is everyone ripping off Aloris. The part numbers are most likely correspond to the Aloris parts. For example, a #1 is a turning holder, a #2 is a turning/boring holder, #7 is a parting holder. Most of the import holders of a particular size will fit an Aloris post, and vice-versa. I know a bunch of folks buy the Aloris tool post, and then buy the cheap holders.


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## PurpLev

AXA, BXA... are the sizes (standards) of the toolpost and tool holders. they are sized for different lathe capacities (AXA for the smallest lathes).

the model number 250-001 that you see are the manufacturer model numbers of the tool holders themselves, so 250-001 would be a phase-II (AFAIR) standard double sided AXA tool holder, and another 250-xxx could be a boring bar tool holder and yet another 250-xxx could be a MT-2 tool holder ....etc


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## Ray C

At one time I once thought the Aloris brand had a proprietary angle on  the dovetail but, I've since learned this is not the case.  As someone  mentioned brands for a given size should fit.  Sometimes, a particular  tool holder will be a tight fit so, a few moments with a file and some  break-in time will take care of that.  You just need to know if you have  an AXA or BXA and order the correct size.

I'll post a size  comparison between the two once the web site problem is cleared-up  Stand by.  AXA measures about 2.1" on the backside of  the block and BXA is about 2.6".  The calipers for reference are opened  to 2.6".


Ray


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## SEK_22Hornet

If I understand correctly, the terminology that I have seen is as follows-

AXA - 100 series
BXA - 200 series
CXA - 300 series

So that would say that the part numbers you have mentioned that end in 102, etc. would probably be considered 100 series holders. I'm pretty sure that not every holder will be marked as either AXA or 100, but most vendors seem to use one of the two designations in their descriptions.


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## ScrapMetal

SEK_22Hornet said:


> If I understand correctly, the terminology that I have seen is as follows-
> 
> AXA - 100 series
> BXA - 200 series
> CXA - 300 series
> 
> So that would say that the part numbers you have mentioned that end in 102, etc. would probably be considered 100 series holders. I'm pretty sure that not every holder will be marked as either AXA or 100, but most vendors seem to use one of the two designations in their descriptions.



I have an older set of "imports" that are marked with 250-xxx and they are AXA size so while that may hold for some I don't think it's universal by any means.

JMHO

-Ron


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## Ray C

Here's the picture as promised below....  AXA on left, BXA on right.




Ray


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## Rbeckett

Holy cow, I didn't know that the BXA was so much beefier.  that's a pretty huge difference just in block size..  Thanks for the side by side pics.

Bob


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## Ray C

Yeah Bob -and truth be known on that 12" lathe, a BXA can overpower the compound by a healthy margin -kinda like Sweet Pea arm wrestling Pop Eye.


Ray



Rbeckett said:


> Holy cow, I didn't know that the BXA was so much beefier.  that's a pretty huge difference just in block size..  Thanks for the side by side pics.
> 
> Bob


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## kd4gij

Rbeckett said:


> Holy cow, I didn't know that the BXA was so much beefier.  that's a pretty huge difference just in block size..  Thanks for the side by side pics.
> 
> Bob






   You should see a CXA sitting next to an AXA. Boy that makes the AXA look punney


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## SEK_22Hornet

ScrapMetal said:


> I have an older set of "imports" that are marked with 250-xxx and they are AXA size so while that may hold for some I don't think it's universal by any means.
> 
> JMHO
> 
> -Ron



That is really what I meant when I said that I was pretty sure that not all holders would be marked with either an AXA, BXA, 100, 200 etc., but when you go looking at their website or catalog, most of them reference either the AXA or 100 series in their catalog descriptions - either by adding "style" or "equivalent" or some other terminology.  PhaseII uses the term "series".   Actually, the Enco website has that same sort of table in the PhaseII toolpost description. Hope that clears up my earlier comment. CDCO uses the letter designation and on ebay, I usually find most auctions using the 100, 200, etc. designation.


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## David Kirtley

Don't forget the 0XA.  It is like 60% the size of the AXA.  They are the right size for the little 7X lathes.


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## Winegrower

A friend just got a 6” Craftsman...pretty cute, sits on a bench top, but is big enough to do a lot of things.   He needs a QCTP.   Would you recommend 0XA or AXA?


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## Nogoingback

ScrapMetal said:


> I have an older set of "imports" that are marked with 250-xxx and they are AXA size so while that may hold for some I don't think it's universal by any means.
> 
> JMHO
> 
> -Ron



It's the second set of numbers that indicate the size.  So, a 250-102 is an AXA because 102 is a 100 series number.  If it were a 250-202,
it would be BXA.

http://www.phase2plus.com/details.asp?pr=QUICK_CHANGE_TOOL_SETS&id=52


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## Nogoingback

Winegrower said:


> A friend just got a 6” Craftsman...pretty cute, sits on a bench top, but is big enough to do a lot of things.   He needs a QCTP.   Would you recommend 0XA or AXA?



AXA is too big for a 6" Craftsman.  OXA should do it.  Having said that, the way to figure this stuff out is to measure the vertical distance between
the tool post mounting surface of the compound and the center of the spindle, and compare with the specs from the tool post manufacturer.


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## middle.road

Moderator: This might oughta be pinned somewhere?
Good straight forward info.


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## Dabbler

It is important to get an appropriate sized holder for your lathe:  the recommendations are a good guide.  I know a guy that put a BXA on a 7" lathe, and thought he was winning something.  the 2.5" wide  compound slide was the weak link in all this, and he gained nothing but extra expense for the tool holders.

What you need to consider is that the holder that holds the tool will mostly be adjusted roughly in the middle of the range - for the tools you have or plan to buy.  You can get XL holders in AXA and BXA that allows you to use larger tool shanks in the same system, if that is a consideration.

Shars has drawings for its holders and tool posts, and that should help in choosing a system that will work best for your lathe.

Why you have to be careful is that for the same lathe swing, the room from the top of the compound to the center line of the lathe varies a lot - on 12" lathes, I've seen 4.5" to 2" - on bigger lathes, the difference can be bigger, depending on construction...


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## DAT510

Here's helpful explanation from Shars on Sizing QCTP's

The important dimension is the distance from the Mounting Surface of the Compound to the Center Line of the Lathe.  If you choose a QCTP that is too large, you may not be able to properly center the cutter with the axis of the lathe.







Here's LMS's explanation for sizing a QCTP:  https://littlemachineshop.com/info/qctp.php


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