# Brand new lathe, can't turn it on yet...



## GunsOfNavarone (Jul 15, 2018)

Hello all,
So I have the G0602Z where it will live, cleaned it pretty well and going through the start up procedures, oil is a bit low. I really don't want to HAVE TO order oil from Grizzly, it there somewhere I can get something local? It seems you can use ISO 32 OR 68 in the gearbox and 32 in the ball oilers...for ease I'll go 32 both. I thought I could use hydraulic fluid (no detergent), then I talked myself out of that. I want to do it right as I have never turned it on, BUUUUUUTTTT... I want to start break in now.
Help?


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## Mitch Alsup (Jul 15, 2018)

Local tractor supply stores generally have ISO 32 and ISO 68.
I got mine via McMaster-Carr.

I like ISO 68 on the ways as it makes the carriage float smoother than ISO 32.
My gearbox calls for ISO 32, so that is what I use in it.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jul 15, 2018)

Jeez/Jones....tractor supply huh? I suppose that exists here somewhere....I was hoping someone would say AutoZone or Ace Hardware. I know the heavier oil will be quiter, but convenience, maybe I'll use two ..if I can source them!


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## JimDawson (Jul 15, 2018)

Autozone might have it, my local NAPA store carries it.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jul 15, 2018)

NAPA?? Now you're talking!


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## TerryH (Jul 15, 2018)

Amazon is a possibility as well. That's where I got mine.

ISO 68 on Amazon Prime...

ISO 32 on Amazon Prime...


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## jocat54 (Jul 15, 2018)

I usually get it from Tractor Supply but have found some in Home Depot before.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jul 16, 2018)

I found a Kubuto dealer not too far away (yay) they only have ISO 48 (BOO?) That does fall between iso 32 and iso 68 as recommended.


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## NortonDommi (Jul 16, 2018)

I use Sinopac  ISO 46 because I have a big drum of it. Any of the hydraulic oils rated for tractor use will work. They are designed to be used in combined transmission/hydraulic systems on machines in general.
Attached a sheet from Spec Oil.


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## Tozguy (Jul 16, 2018)

Walmart has iso32 and 68, otherwise known as SAE10 and SAE20, any Walmart in your neck of the woods?


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## NortonDommi (Jul 16, 2018)

Tozguy said:


> Walmart has iso32 and 68, otherwise known as SAE10 and SAE20, any Walmart in your neck of the woods?


The SAE ratings refer to equivalent viscosity rates at 20*C.  One thing to look out for with Automotive products is the additives such as detergents and viscosity modifiers most of which are not necessary in other machinery.


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## Bob Korves (Jul 16, 2018)

Some auto parts stores carry ISO 32 and 68 oil.  Some of it says AW on it (AW68, AW 32, there is also AW46), which means it has anti wear additives added to it.  I prefer the AW oil, and it is also available from farm implement dealers and aftermarket sellers at very reasonable prices.


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## Mitch Alsup (Jul 16, 2018)

Detergent is not only not necessary, but actually degrades the application.

Machine tools with high quality ball bearings want the wear particles to fall to the bottom of the oil tank rather than being held in solution (like oil with detergent does).


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jul 16, 2018)

Tozguy said:


> Walmart has iso32 and 68, otherwise known as SAE10 and SAE20, any Walmart in your neck of the woods?


I have fork oil...SAE 20W, but it has many additives...dunno about that. That's the tough part, not only the weight conversion, but what crap they toss in the mix. I feel like I'm over thinking this as it is a foreign standard and in a brand new machine. I think I'll be changing it almost immediately after break in...


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jul 16, 2018)

Bob Korves said:


> Some auto parts stores carry ISO 32 and 68 oil.  Some of it says AW on it (AW68, AW 32, there is also AW46), which means it has anti wear additives added to it.  I prefer the AW oil, and it is also available from farm implement dealers and aftermarket sellers at very reasonable prices.


Yes! I seem to remember reading something about Moly in this oil (the correct oil) which is a great anti wear additive.


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## JimDawson (Jul 16, 2018)

I run AW46 in my lathe, mainly because I have plenty of that on the shelf.  Use it in the fork lifts also.


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## Bob Korves (Jul 16, 2018)

GunsOfNavarone said:


> I'm over thinking this as it is a foreign standard and in a brand new machine.


ISO is a world standard that all countries except the United States and maybe a couple third world countries have signed on to.
https://www.iso.org/about-us.html
https://www.iso.org/home.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_International_Organization_for_Standardization_standards
I am completely comfortable with both sets of standards, because I have had to be in my employment.  Countries that use ISO standards consider our systems "quaint."  They only need to learn one system...


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## Superburban (Jul 16, 2018)

Murdocks carries both oils. The ISO parts did not stick out on the label, I over looked one of them a few times before I found it.

You have one it Westminster, or Littleton, both look about the same distance from you.

https://www.murdochs.com/stores/


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## Tozguy (Jul 17, 2018)

Mitch Alsup said:


> Detergent is not only not necessary, but actually degrades the application.
> 
> Machine tools with high quality ball bearings want the wear particles to fall to the bottom of the oil tank rather than being held in solution (like oil with detergent does).



Please explain the source of wear particles, my lathe does not make any because the oil keeps the metal surfaces from touching.

Detergents are surfactants not emulsifiers. They are designed to ''penetrate and release'' not to ''dissolve and hold''. Please explain the science of how any particles would theoretically be held in solution more than with non detergent oils.

Detergents are not necessary in a lathe - agreed. 
Detergents are harmful to a lathe gearbox - not any more than they are harmful to motorcycle gearboxes.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jul 17, 2018)

Thanks everybody for the info. In my searches here & on the internet, there are no shortages of confused AMERICANS trying to make sense of this. I think (for the next poor bastard asking the same damn question) SAE 10 is the same as ISO 32 & SAE 20 is the same as ISO 68. One thing to watch for, you don’t want detergents & additives. I did end up ordering off Amazon (thanks for the link Terry) but now feel comfortable after hearing all of your alternatives, using something no labeled exactly the same.
Very good-thank you!


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## Tozguy (Jul 17, 2018)

Glad to see that you are comfortable with your choice of oil. 

It is indeed a challenge to translate a highly technical subject into layman's terms. If you have found a convincing argument on how detergents and additives in motor oil are damaging to a lathe, would you mind sharing a link to it?

One author who demystifies somewhat the subject of oils is Kevin Cameron in his book titled ''Sportbike Performance Handbook''. He devotes a chapter on oils (pp 147-153) that goes beyond the hype and myths that are all too common.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jul 17, 2018)

Ahh yes, good question. So on MY LATHE, which everyone’s could be different, it says non detergent. I PERSONALLY have nothing against it, but I understand certain things may not have the desired outcome depending on the the manufacturer’s goal. Mine is the Grizzly G0602Z by the way. Kevin Cameron? Isn’t he the welding tips and tricks or weldmonger?


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## Tozguy (Jul 17, 2018)

This is the Kevin Cameron I referred to:
https://www.cycleworld.com/authors/kevin-cameron


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## Tozguy (Jul 17, 2018)

GunsOfNavarone said:


> Ahh yes, good question. So on MY LATHE, which everyone’s could be different, it says non detergent. I PERSONALLY have nothing against it, but I understand certain things may not have the desired outcome depending on the the manufacturer’s goal. Mine is the Grizzly G0602Z by the way.



The G0602Z manual recommends the oil they sell or one of equivalent viscosity. Their goal might be to sell their oil. If there is a specification that non-detergent oils must be avoided I did not find it.


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## Superburban (Jul 17, 2018)

Just about any place you look, will say non detergent oil for things that do not have an oil filter. And detergent oil for things that do.

The detergents loosen, and keep the crud in suspension for the filter to catch. Not detergent oils let it fall to the bottom of the oil sump.

There is also an issue with newer automotive oils, not getting along with brass, bearings, gears, what ever. Apparently it bonds to the brass, then when the part is under pressure, the oil breaks off, taking some of the brass with it.

Also the newer automotive oils have done away with some of the high pressure additives, now that all automotive engines have roller cams. So they are not as good for gears, as the older oils.

Check  for your self, Google will lead you to a ton of confusion. But the majority will say similar to what I just said.   Do not put to much stock in the "I have done it for months, and no issue" statements. As the wrong oils/ bad effects take time to do the damage, and can easily be contributed to other things, not knowing it is the oil additives.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jul 17, 2018)

Tozguy said:


> The G0602Z manual recommends the oil they sell or one of equivalent viscosity. Their goal might be to sell their oil. If there is a specification that non-detergent oils must be avoided I did not find it.


I definitely thought that....but when you have a brand new tool, you don't want to jump straight in using something that MAY be not ideal...you know? My wife made a mistake of using antifreeze i had in the garage (only "about a half a cup") it was the green kind and we found out the expensive way...VW's require the pink type.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jul 17, 2018)

Superburban said:


> Just about any place you look, will say non detergent oil for things that do not have an oil filter. And detergent oil for things that do.
> 
> The detergents loosen, and keep the crud in suspension for the filter to catch. Not detergent oils let it fall to the bottom of the oil sump.
> 
> ...


no doubt that is a big problem when it comes to men, tools and cars. I know what I know and I don't fake anything. When I know I'm at my limits, I go looking for answers. You will always run into opinionated folks.


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## Mitch Alsup (Jul 17, 2018)

Superburban said:


> Also the newer automotive oils have done away with some of the high pressure additives, now that all automotive engines have roller cams. So they are not as good for gears, as the older oils.



There are still millions of vehicles on the road with non-rollerized cam to tappet valve actuation. Don't use modern (SN) oils in them, look for an oil with at least 1100 PPM of zinc (ZDDP).


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## Superburban (Jul 17, 2018)

Mitch Alsup said:


> There are still millions of vehicles on the road with non-rollerized cam to tappet valve actuation. Don't use modern (SN) oils in them, look for an oil with at least 1100 PPM of zinc (ZDDP).


Agreed. My daily driver is a 77 Dodge pickup. Out of 7 vehicles, only 2 have roller cams.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jul 19, 2018)

Wow what a let down. Got the oil, literally was MAYBE a 1/4 cup low...maybe. Thought I would do the break in procedure...no biggie, 10 minutes each speed then in reverse, ok. The 1st belt change (to take it from high speed to low speed) it took me 1.5 hours and never was happy enough with it to commit. There is a delicate balance of tension in drive belt and tension on v belt. The motor is a NIGHTMARE to tighten or loosen the belt. Too loose of a belt, well we know this issue, snug it up and the v belt gets too tight and there is no way to loosen it, only tighten with the tensioner. I guess I'll need to find someone who has had it a while and pick their brain. 
You can't get a box end, open end or even socket on the sonzabitch!! Gave up ****** off!


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