# New to me 5904



## Tenpounder

So I picked up a 5904. I've been looking for the 24 inch model for a few years and patience has paid off. It needs a good general look over and new belts. Ways look great for its age. Any body ever swap these 3ph units to 1ph? This unit has a 1.5 hp 3ph motor with a Baldor adjustable speed drive box on it. My only idea for it being there is to soft start the 3ph motor...??? Then again it has a potentiometer wired to the factory variable speed control. Any ideas how this all works? 
The lathe came with taper attachment, tail stock, collet closer, a beat up chuck and a quick change tool post I have never seen before but no wrenches/ spindle spanner.


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## LEEQ

Congrats, that looks like a great machine. It also looks like a candidate for a vfd. It would be reasonably cheap to add a variable frequency drive that converts single phase into three phase for your motor. It can also take care of variable speed. I'm not saying it's the only way to go, but that you should look into and consider it. A lot of us are swapping out our single phase motors for three phase motors coupled with vfd. You appear to be halfway there already. Have fun, and good luck.


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## wa5cab

From reading what is and noting what isn't printed on the front panel of the Baldor Variable Speed Drive, my guess is that the machine already has an industrial grade VFD installed.  It just runs off of 3-phase instead of single phase.  If I were you, I would try to contact Baldor first or if they were driven belly up by the chinese at least get the maintenance manual on the thing.  It is probably possible to convert it to single phase as the text mentions an inverter which probably runs off of either 250 or 500 VDC.  If that is correct, all that you would need to convert would be the DC power supply.  How expensive that would be would mainly depend upon whether they used three single phase transformers or a true 3-phase unit.


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## Tenpounder

wa5cab said:


> From reading what is and noting what isn't printed on the front panel of the Baldor Variable Speed Drive, my guess is that the machine already has an industrial grade VFD installed.  It just runs off of 3-phase instead of single phase.  If I were you, I would try to contact Baldor first or if they were driven belly up by the chinese at least get the maintenance manual on the thing.  It is probably possible to convert it to single phase as the text mentions an inverter which probably runs off of either 250 or 500 VDC.  If that is correct, all that you would need to convert would be the DC power supply.  How expensive that would be would mainly depend upon whether they used three single phase transformers or a true 3-phase unit.



 This is great and mind blowing. Thank you! So let me fully digest this....  After reading this, reading a few articles, and watching some informative Eaton training videos. I can run the installed, old as dirt 1.5hp, 3ph, Peerless motor off a single phase input VFD?
 The lathe currently is all set up original, sheaves and belts for variable speed of the spindle. Wouldn't it be counter intuitive to run the motor also at variable speed? From the reading I've done, this would save on power consumption. 
 Let me step back.... lathe original set up would have been this... Start lathe. Motor running constant speed. Turning the variable speed dial handle changes the sheave pitch thus changing speed of the spindle but not changing motor speed. Correct?
Now enter this Baldor VFD..... Start motor. Motor running "X" speed. Turn the variable speed dial handle (which has a potentiometer mounted under it wire to the VFD) changes the sheave pitch thus changing speed of the spindle but also the speed of the motor... Won't those combined cause inaccurate speeds?
 Would I have to direct drive the motor to the spindle?

Thanks in advance for any reply.


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## LEEQ

Nothing says you have to use the vfd to do more than provide 3 phase at a constant frequency. You could then use the lathe to vary speed as designed.Wa5cab might have you a way to preserve the baldor unit, and again nothing says you have to change speed with that either. I don't know anything about that, but I did fit a simple teco drive to my 3phase Bridgeport. It now runs on 220v single phase. I mostly use the belts to change speed, but I use the vfd also to adjust  in between speeds.  However you go about it, I don't see a need to change the way the motor drives the lathe.  To me, half the fun of metalworking has been to figure things like this out and get a bit of education in the process.


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## mmcmdl

Following along on this one .


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## Tenpounder

LEEQ said:


> Nothing says you have to use the vfd to do more than provide 3 phase at a constant frequency. You could then use the lathe to vary speed as designed.Wa5cab might have you a way to preserve the baldor unit, and again nothing says you have to change speed with that either. I don't know anything about that, but I did fit a simple teco drive to my 3phase Bridgeport. It now runs on 220v single phase. I mostly use the belts to change speed, but I use the vfd also to adjust  in between speeds.  However you go about it, I don't see a need to change the way the motor drives the lathe.  To me, half the fun of metalworking has been to figure things like this out and get a bit of education in the process.



Thanks this is great info. After a night of restless sleep, I see the application for the VFD. Use the VFD at 100% for constant speed/frequency of the motor and use the OEM drive to change the spindle speed. Also will be the availability to change the speed of the motor by why of the VFD if desired. 
 It seem so simple it can't be true. This is a great eye opener. 
 The next step will be to get a new VFD, single phase in three phase out. Megger check the installed Peerless 3ph motor. Then rewire the lathe for the new VFD. Run a new circuit in the shop. Then play till my hearts content. 
 I think I have finally have a project worth a build thread. As seemingly simple as you make it out to be. Alas this is a budget build and time is usually not in my favor. Time and money..... If I have one, I don't have the other!
 Story and pictures to continue.


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## machPete99

If there are issues with the hydraulic and sheave (Reeves) setup it can be eliminated, which is what I did, see under clausing section...


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## mksj

The inverter drive is a Baldor Series 11 VFD circa mid 90's. It can run on single phase in a derated mode, so most likely the VFD is a 2 Hp model, in derated mode it is rated for 1 Hp on single phase. It may be sufficient to run the lathe as is on single phase. It is a very old unit but they were over built at the time. Biggest concern would be the power supply capacitors which go with time. If you power it up on single phase, just let it sit powered for 1-2 hours before running the motor. This may reform some of the electrolytic's in the power supply. I would see if you can find a model number on the VFD which would give some more information as to ratings.

The VFD is already wired into the the control system for the lathe, by looking at the terminal connections and the VFD settings you should be able to workout what the wires are connected to/function. (i.e. For. Rev. Jog Free run etc.).  You may be able to pull the programming information from the VFD if it powers up, see the manual.

The wiring control functions are very similar to other VFD's that have a common terminal and then separate inputs for the low voltage connections. It should be straight forward if you need to replace the VFD with a newer model, which would be about 1/4 the size. The Lenze SMV line has a control arrangement that is very similar to this old Baldor, I can give some more detailed recommendations if you find the the VFD needs to be replaced.

It is unclear if the speed is being adjusted with the VFD drive or it is just using to provide 60Hz 3 phase and the speed is being changed mechanically.

Picture of drive type:



Review the attached manual for the Baldor AC drive.


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## Tenpounder

mksj said:


> The inverter drive is a Baldor Series 11 VFD circa mid 90's. It can run on single phase in a derated mode, so most likely the VFD is a 2 Hp model, in derated mode it is rated for 1 Hp on single phase. It may be sufficient to run the lathe as is on single phase. It is a very old unit but they were over built at the time. Biggest concern would be the power supply capacitors which go with time. If you power it up on single phase, just let it sit powered for 1-2 hours before running the motor. This may reform some of the electrolytic's in the power supply. I would see if you can find a model number on the VFD which would give some more information as to ratings.
> 
> The VFD is already wired into the the control system for the lathe, by looking at the terminal connections and the VFD settings you should be able to workout what the wires are connected to/function. (i.e. For. Rev. Jog Free run etc.).  You may be able to pull the programming information from the VFD if it powers up, see the manual.
> 
> The wiring control functions are very similar to other VFD's that have a common terminal and then separate inputs for the low voltage connections. It should be straight forward if you need to replace the VFD with a newer model, which would be about 1/4 the size. The Lenze SMV line has a control arrangement that is very similar to this old Baldor, I can give some more detailed recommendations if you find the the VFD needs to be replaced.
> 
> It is unclear if the speed is being adjusted with the VFD drive or it is just using to provide 60Hz 3 phase and the speed is being changed mechanically.
> 
> Picture of drive type:
> View attachment 315442
> 
> 
> Review the attached manual for the Baldor AC drive.




This is HUGE! I just wasted a solid three hours today at work looking for this manual. Actually saw this photo. Contacted ABB which now owes Baldor. They haven't gotten back to me yet. But you just knocked it out of the park. Thanks a TON!


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## Tenpounder

Thanks for all the input. Hopefully someday I can reciprocate. I have a few days of reading and digesting. I have to work on another project first then I can methodically disassemble the lathe for maintenance. I'll be posting this ensemble. For now this needs repair. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




Straighten the front end, run through bearings and torque converter, new breaks and cables, and build a cover for the TC. 

Then the lathe


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## LEEQ

I was about to say that smarter people than myself helped me a lot the first time through, but here they are. This is a great community. I have learned so much with the help of HM. I'm pretty interested to see how this goes. If you find yourself looking for a new vfd and or motor might I suggest dealerselectric.com They might have a good deal or two for you. The first time around I got a teco vfd/brooke Crompton motor package for about the price of the vfd and I 'm pretty sure I also paid freight(The motor was pretty heavy.) The second time I did almost as well on a teco vfd/weg motor package. I love the fact that by buying the Teco I was able to get a bit of support from the manufacturer. That was great. I know there are other brands that do this as well. I'm no expert and I love the peace of mind. If I can't figure it out I can get help without always calling on these folks at HM.


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## mksj

You should be able to use that VFD on single phase for this motor if the VFD powers up. The typical derating for single phase is to divide the VFD output amps by 1.5-1.7 which gives you ~4.1-4.7A derated, this is based on continuous duty at full load and a few other factors. The motor at 208-220 is 4.8A, input power to the VFD is probably 240VAC so a little more headroom. VFD's also can put out more than their rated continuous amps for short periods, and it is unlikely that the motor will be drawing full load for any length of time. So give it a try, if it was running before you purchased it, chances are good that it will work ok. You have options if it doesn't work, and should not to be too difficult to install a newer VFD if needed .


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## Tenpounder

After reading the manual for both the lathe and VFD.  Your are correct. I'm stoked this will work of single phase. Looking over the lathe appears I was wrong in my last asumption. The hydraulics that operate the variable speed control are gone. Appears the VFD is controlling the motor speed as designed. I'll have to get VFD rewired for single phase. Test it's function. The power up the motor ever do gingerly as to not damage the VFD and tip toe into it. 
This lever collet chuck appears stuck, or at least the collet is over tight in the coller. Does this lever chuck come off by way of the spindle coller? Need to get that off to get better acess to the back gear pin.


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## wa5cab

First, that isn't a collet chuck.  It is technically a lever operated collet closer.  Collet chucks attach to the spindle nose the same way as a regular chuck.  I have a 5C collet chuck for my Atlas 3996.  It screws onto the spindle nose.

You haven't yet shown a photo of the left end of the spindle.  There are other ways of doing it but one common way to attach a lever-operated collet closer to a lathe spindle is to screw it onto the left end of the spindle using the same threads as the collar that is there on many lathes.  Whether it goes on in place of or in addition to the collar depends upon  how much the spindle sticks out through the collar.  I think installed in place of the normal collar would be more common.

If the collet has been in the closer adapter for a long time, the collet may be stuck.  Or the closer may be stuck.  There should be a hollow tube a little larger on the outside diameter than the threads on a loose collet.  And there should be some way to turn that tube.  I would first lubricate the closer and apply penetrating oil to the OD of the collet nose.  Then attempt to loosed the tube.  And/or try striking the lever with a short 2X4.  Although you should never leave the collet in the tightened position, it could be especially if knob twiddlers have been allowed access to the machine.


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## Tenpounder

wa5cab said:


> First, that isn't a collet chuck.  It is technically a lever operated collet closer.  Collet chucks attach to the spindle nose the same way as a regular chuck.  I have a 5C collet chuck for my Atlas 3996.  It screws onto the spindle nose.
> 
> You haven't yet shown a photo of the left end of the spindle.  There are other ways of doing it but one common way to attach a lever-operated collet closer to a lathe spindle is to screw it onto the left end of the spindle using the same threads as the collar that is there on many lathes.  Whether it goes on in place of or in addition to the collar depends upon  how much the spindle sticks out through the collar.  I think installed in place of the normal collar would be more common.
> 
> If the collet has been in the closer adapter for a long time, the collet may be stuck.  Or the closer may be stuck.  There should be a hollow tube a little larger on the outside diameter than the threads on a loose collet.  And there should be some way to turn that tube.  I would first lubricate the closer and apply penetrating oil to the OD of the collet nose.  Then attempt to loosed the tube.  And/or try striking the lever with a short 2X4.  Although you should never leave the collet in the tightened position, it could be especially if knob twiddlers have been allowed access to the machine.




Ahh, I see says the blind man! I have a whole department of knob twiddlers called operations at work..lol. I'll have to scrutinize the collet closer (thanks for the correction) a bit more. I have to make a spindle coller wrench to get chuck on it. Here is the best pic I have right now, I'll get some better ones this evening. I did try, unsuccessfully, to get the collet out but I need to delicately use a tool.


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## brino

Was there a power cord and connector on it?
Just wondering if it could have been configured for single -phase input already......

-brino

btw: that looks like a great lathe!


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## Tenpounder

Thanks Brino and yes it does have a cord but is currently wire for 3ph input. The story goes.....The seller had it powered up when I arrived, I looked over the unit,...Pause the story. Let me inform everyone right know. I am not a machinist by trade. I'm an industrial mechanic with a heavy truck/ diesel background and know just enough to get me into trouble. Continue, I made sure all the parts moved freely without a lot of slop. We had the lathe in backgear and powered it on and engaged the spindle. Let it run and ran though the back gear speed. VFD functioned correctly. Ran through the quick change gear box. Then changed the direct drive. Powered the unit up and the VFD tripped out. This might be a VFD fault or the fact that the back gear pin might not have been engaged/disengaged. Once I get it wired for single phase that will be the next investigation.


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## wa5cab

OK.  That photo confirms that the lathe is configured with a lever operated collet closer.  Another photo taken from about 3 feet to the left may reveal how it was installed.  But there will be a hollow tube inside the hollow spindle that is free to spin independent of the spindle.  That is how you install a collet (by turning the tube to engage the collet threads, not the collet, which has a slot to engage the short key inside of the closer adapter.  The additional photo may reveal what type tool fits the draw tube, although normally a tool isn't necessary.

What made me conclude that the Motor Controller (AKA VFD) was 3-phase only was that the warning on the front panel said that the supply must be connected to terminals L1, L2 and L3.  Standard US Single Phase configuration doesn't have an L3 and does have a Neutral (N) which 3-Phase does not have.  Both have a Ground (G, or GND) which for some reason isn't mentioned but is important.


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## Tenpounder

wa5cab said:


> OK.  That photo confirms that the lathe is configured with a lever operated collet closer.  Another photo taken from about 3 feet to the left may reveal how it was installed.  But there will be a hollow tube inside the hollow spindle that is free to spin independent of the spindle.  That is how you install a collet (by turning the tube to engage the collet threads, not the collet, which has a slot to engage the short key inside of the closer adapter.  The additional photo may reveal what type tool fits the draw tube, although normally a tool isn't necessary.
> 
> What made me conclude that the Motor Controller (AKA VFD) was 3-phase only was that the warning on the front panel said that the supply must be connected to terminals L1, L2 and L3.  Standard US Single Phase configuration doesn't have an L3 and does have a Neutral (N) which 3-Phase does not have.  Both have a Ground (G, or GND) which for some reason isn't mentioned but is important.




Again.... many thanks for the wisdom. I'll get better pictures this evening and play with it a bit. I thought the same thing with the VFD until MKSJ provided a manual to me. That was game changing.


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## machPete99

The Armstrong 466 Spanner wrench is what is typically used on these lathes to attach the chuck,like this one:








						Armstrong Made in USA Spanner Wrench 466  | eBay
					

Armstrong made in USA has the number 466 on it Condition is Used. {73019-145-7}.



					www.ebay.com


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## mattthemuppet2

Tenpounder said:


> I have to make a spindle coller wrench to get chuck on it.



there's a guy on Practical Machinist that makes very nice (by all accounts) LO/L1 spindle spanners for reasonable money. Might be worth checking them out - check the Tooling section, I think that's where I've seen them.


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## Tenpounder

Some should have just said "Hey dummy there's a key on the collet closer handle that unthreads the tube and collet" DOH!
	

		
			
		

		
	




That's one win. Thanks


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## Tenpounder

mattthemuppet2 said:


> there's a guy on Practical Machinist that makes very nice (by all accounts) LO/L1 spindle spanners for reasonable money. Might be worth checking them out - check the Tooling section, I think that's where I've seen them.



Thanks I'll check PM. The spindle nut is in rough shape. Someone has drilled newer 3/8 holes to make up the trashed original holes


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## mksj

Haven't seen that style for the 5C system, the collet closer handle should release the collet.

You technically you do not need to rewire for single phase. The manual indicated that two of the power input terminals are connected for single phase, so you could power L1 with one side of 230VAC and L2/L3 wires with the other side.


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## Tenpounder

I have some 3/8 armored plate steel laying around...think I'll make a wrench...


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## Tenpounder

mksj said:


> Haven't seen that style for the 5C system, the collet closer handle should release the collet.
> 
> You technically you do not need to rewire for single phase. The manual indicated that two of the power input terminals are connected for single phase, so you could power L1 with one side of 230VAC and L2/L3 wires with the other side.




Absolutely. That's my initial intension. By rewire I mean move the locaton of the VFD. It's mounted on the back left cabinet of the lathe. Not an optimal location for maintenance.


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## Tenpounder

I disassemble some of the lathe. Found the gearing in good condition. Needs a cleaning and regrease. Found the clutch brake degraded. Anyone ever replace the brake material on these 5900's before? I'm considering using material from McMasterCarr. There is also a brake feature  on the VFD. Not sure if the function is what I'm thinking it is though. More reading required. Found the motor loose also. Suprised that didn't contribute to some odd noise when I ran it. That will get aligned and tightened. Belts don't look terrible.  
	

		
			
		

		
	







This tool post I found labeled made in W Germany. Anyone have info on this? I emailed the company. No response back.


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## mattthemuppet2

looks like a multifix to me. You can get holders for reasonable money from China or originals for a lot of money from eBay. Has a lot of pluses over the standard Aloris/ Dorian style, but holders are not easily DIYable and cost more than equivalent size AXA/BXA/CXA size holders.


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## brino

That looks like the "Multi-Fix" tool post.
Some info here:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/multifix/


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## Tenpounder

brino said:


> That looks like the "Multi-Fix" tool post.
> Some info here:
> http://www.lathes.co.uk/multifix/




Sweet! This one came with three holders. I'll definitely need a couple more.


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## middle.road

Tenpounder said:


> Sweet! This one came with three holders. I'll definitely need a couple more.


Despite what the other guys are saying it's a rusty ol' piece of junk, just send to me, I'll take care of it and shipping too.   

That is a super sweet tool post. Had a sharp intake of breathe when I came across the picture.


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## Tenpounder

middle.road said:


> Despite what the other guys are saying it's a rusty ol' piece of junk, just send to me, I'll take care of it and shipping too.
> 
> That is a super sweet tool post. Had a sharp intake of breathe when I came across the picture.



Thanks. Seems a good score. I'll take its weight in gold


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## Tenpounder

Still inspecting. Going to change the oil in both the apron and head stock. The oil level seems high considering the sight glass has a line in it half way up. Oil is 3 inches high. Where should the oil level be?


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## Rata222

I believe that is a Royal collet closer.  If so....Attached is a manual.  Also attached is some info I had saved. It was created by Bob Nawa  from (I believe) the Clausing Group on  Yahoo (now GroupsIO ). 

Also- just in case you are unsure- after removing the back part of the collet closer assembly - you will loosen the nut (clockwise) to remove the spindle nose piece. That will pop out the collet adapter, .


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## mksj

Oil level should be at the middle line or slightly above but not above the top of the site gauge. Too high will cause increase drag and foaming of the oil. The biggest issue with the Multifix is the cost of the toolpost and holders. Real holders go for hundreds of dollars each. There are clones which are significantly less.
http://www.createtool.com/list.asp?cid=33


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## Tenpounder

Rata222 said:


> I believe that is a Royal collet closer.  If so....Attached is a manual.  Also attached is some info I had saved. It was created by Bob Nawa  from (I believe) the Clausing Group on  Yahoo (now GroupsIO ).
> 
> Also- just in case you are unsure- after removing the back part of the collet closer assembly - you will loosen the nut (clockwise) to remove the spindle nose piece. That will pop out the collet adapter, .



This will definitely help when I forget how to put it back on... Thank you


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## Tenpounder

mksj said:


> Oil level should be at the middle line or slightly above but not above the top of the site gauge. Too high will cause increase drag and foaming of the oil. The biggest issue with the Multifix is the cost of the toolpost and holders. Real holders go for hundreds of dollars each. There are clones which are significantly less.
> http://www.createtool.com/list.asp?cid=33



Thank you for the info. The spindle gear was half submerged in oil! I jumped back when I saw how over filled it was. I think I'll order a couple of the knock off tool holders. I've wasted better money on worse. Do you recommend any solvent/alcohol for flush the head stock? There is considerable amount of residue left behind.


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## wa5cab

#2 Diesel is relatively cheap and easy to get.  And unlike Mineral Spirits (Varsol, Stoddard Solvents, etc.) it won't de-grease the gears and bearings.  Downside or course is the smell.  If you get it on your clothes, your wife may not let you in the house.


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## Tenpounder

Great input. Thank you. I was looking into the knock off multifix tool posts and found they are made and shipped from Wuhan, China. I'll probably wait a bit before I make a  purchase. Just a slight precaution.


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## BGHansen

Tenpounder said:


> Great input. Thank you. I was looking into the knock off multifix tool posts and found they are made and shipped from Wuhan, China. I'll probably wait a bit before I make a  purchase. Just a slight precaution.


I work at a car assembly plant in Michigan.  Lots of parts come from China. Our safety department reports that the Corona virus can only live on boxes and parts for 2 hours tops. No risk for contracting the virus.


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## Janderso

You have some nice tooling with that Clausing. If the previous owner worked with Royal and Multi -fix, he probably knew how to take good care of his equipment.


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## Tenpounder

BGHansen said:


> I work at a car assembly plant in Michigan.  Lots of parts come from China. Our safety department reports that the Corona virus can only live on boxes and parts for 2 hours tops. No risk for contracting the virus.



That's cool. I'd tell the head of your safety department to come on down and help throw some boxes then. Lol.


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## Tenpounder

Janderso said:


> You have some nice tooling with that Clausing. If the previous owner worked with Royal and Multi -fix, he probably knew how to take good care of his equipment.



Thanks. I didn't get a warm and fuzzy feeling from the seller. It was a craigslist find. He wasn't very forthcoming with the history of the lathe. He stated he only had it 2 months. Got it from a friend who got it out of an auction. He had a broken down 5914 and this working 5904. Didn't make much sense to me but he had and I wanted. It has been great learning from everyone here. HM Rocks!


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## middle.road

BGHansen said:


> I work at a car assembly plant in Michigan.  Lots of parts come from China. Our safety department reports that the Corona virus can only live on boxes and parts for 2 hours tops. No risk for contracting the virus.


From what I've been reading, your safety dept might need to do a little more research. 
They aren't sure right now if it's a few hours or several days on surfaces - which gets rather disconcerting.
There is a report out last couple of days that direct sunlight does kill it though.
So as @JimDawson did, leave it out in the sun.


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## Tenpounder

The world is coming to an end but I'll be in my shop working on the lathe.. best place to socially distance myself in my opinion.
I've been sporadically working on the lathe. I changed the oil in the head stock. Mounted a chuck. Tightened up the motor mounts. Made a pin spanner. Generally cleaned and inspected the unit. I found a couple oil fittings broken. Waiting for those from McMasterCarr. I the key for the tail stock quill was extemely worn. Appears someone has already turned the key 180. Took a few minutes on the 8520 to make a new one. Last week I ordered a chuck wrench from McMasterCarr. I made sure to measure 3 times before ordering. The chuck wrench I ordered was 7/16. As Murphys law would have it, I received the wrench and it was .030 over. Fixed that. I changed the plug end on the VFD cord and removed one of the input wires to run 220v 1ph for input. Powered the VFD on and let it simmer for a few minutes. Powered up the lathe and Disney magic sparkled in my eyes. Now I know how my kids feel when they are glued to the telly. Ran the lathe through its gears, in and out of back gear, quick change, and speeds etc....
It's runs pretty well. No big issues. The VFD trips out on over current if you try to starting high speed in direct drive. The VFD doesn't have enough, being derated for 1ph input. But it works for now. That will give me time to source another VFD.


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## machPete99

Great, something else I should check into on my lathe; it does have a bit of axial play in the TS...
Thanks for posting!


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## Tenpounder

machPete99 said:


> Great, something else I should check into on my lathe; it does have a bit of axial play in the TS...
> Thanks for posting!



Yes it does. I didn't measure axial but I estimate a 16th. Rotational was horrible but easily tightened up with the new key.


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## Tenpounder

Got some pieces/parts for align the head and tail stock. Set it all up and to a cutting tool it's dead on. This was sweet but short lived. I thought, I wonder what it looks like 90 degrees out. Set the dial on top and it's 0.042 in high on the tail stock. Question, should I care about this? My thought is Yes. It will throw off a center drill.....
Or am I getting wrapped around the spindle. I would believe that if I tried to center drill anything it would be high by .042 in.


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## Tenpounder

My only thought for repair would be to mill the tail stock down and shim it up to the center?


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## machPete99

You could loosen the headstock and apply some shim stock on the flat side of the ways.
Note that there is a tapered pin on the front side near the vee way that pins the headstock to the bed.


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## wa5cab

Mounting the Edge test bar between centers effectively cancels out any height error hypothetically due to the headstock not being level.  However, before doing anything, I would remove the test bar and slide the tailstock up to the headstock until the two centers almost touch.  You should easily see any height error as large as 0.042".  As another check to make sure that your MT taper in the spindle is not the culprit is with the two centers almost touching but not overlapping, rotate the spindle 180 degrees.  Or alternatively, with the test bar in place, position your dial indicator back over the headstock end of the test bar and check the runout.  Or both.


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## Tenpounder

machPete99 said:


> You could loosen the headstock and apply some shim stock on the flat side of the ways.
> Note that there is a tapered pin on the front side near the vee way that pins the headstock to the bed.



Ya, Not sure I want to travel down that road quite yet. That could be a slippery slope!


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## machPete99

I had the headstock off mine when I moved it. The tapered pin is in the front corner on the chuck end. Its going into the flat part of the way, not the vee as stated earlier (brain lapse). Easiest way to remove is to carefully rock/pry around the headstock (after removing retaining bolts).

Also, try turning your own center in a chuck as it will then be exactly concentric with the axis of rotation. (see pic).


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## Tenpounder

wa5cab said:


> Mounting the Edge test bar between centers effectively cancels out any height error hypothetically due to the headstock not being level.  However, before doing anything, I would remove the test bar and slide the tailstock up to the headstock until the two centers almost touch.  You should easily see any height error as large as 0.042".  As another check to make sure that your MT taper in the spindle is not the culprit is with the two centers almost touching but not overlapping, rotate the spindle 180 degrees.  Or alternatively, with the test bar in place, position your dial indicator back over the headstock end of the test bar and check the runout.  Or both.
> 
> I executed what you stated and found the tail stock center clearly higher. I checked runout on the center I had in the head stock which is 3mt then an adapter to 4mt for the spindle. It has .003 in runout. I dI'd notice I can see daylight through the two halve of my tail stock...hmmmm? I should probably start there and take it apart for examination.


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## wa5cab

OK.  The tailstock is high.  It wasn't quite clear to me where you were seeing daylight through the TS but as you probbly have a V-bed, it could have been designed that way.  Or another possibility is that a shaving/swarf could have gotten embedded.  Removal and inspection should show that.


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## Tenpounder

Found my .042in! I did some research in the manual and it appears this tail stock is not original to the lathe by serial number. This particular tail stock goes on the later serial numbered lathes. I took the tail stock off today and it appears some brilliant human used the end of the stock as an anvil. Hammer marks all over it, under the spindle. They deformed the joint where the stock splits in two. I spend some time cleaning and stoning the surfaces. Reassembled the stock. Put a center in it. Slid it over to the head stock. Threaded out the spindle, and VOILA, money shot!


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## mattthemuppet2

pretty crazy what people do to machine tools! glad you found the error and was able to fix it.


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## Tenpounder

mattthemuppet2 said:


> pretty crazy what people do to machine tools! glad you found the error and was able to fix it.



Thanks. I'm glad I didn't have to get into the headstock as you stated. When I saw the damage I had a fuzzy feeling it was going to be the fault.


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## Tim9

Very nice Clausing Lathe. I have a 5903. I absolutely love it. Really a great machine.


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## Tenpounder

Tim9 said:


> Very nice Clausing Lathe. I have a 5903. I absolutely love it. Really a great machine.


Thanks! I'm looking forward to using it. It's a nice addition to my addiction.


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## wa5cab

Glad that you found the root cause.  It's usually better fixing those than compensating for them.


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## Tenpounder

The crossfeed screw on the lathe was terribly jumpy and about as smooth sandpaper. I took the cross and compound apart to investigate. I found the cross feed screw pretty wipped, the bearings that support it and the taper attachment bad. The cross feed nut appears someone cut the nut and squeezed it in an etemped to take some play out of it. Cleaned everything with alcohol. The compound is in good condition. Just a clean and lube for it. Currently waiting on replacement parts from Clausing. Cleaned and lubed the multifix tool post also. I'm missing the metric lock handle for it. I've done some research and haven't found a replacement. Anybody have input as to finding one?


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## Tim9

I’ve read through the 3 pages of posts.... and haven’t seen any mention of leveling the lathe. The lathe must be properly leveled before you start aligning TP or spindle. Even though it’s a 24”, it can have bed twist. Trust me, it makes a big difference. You can get by with just a 6” precision machinist level. No need for 2 levels... but you really must level it before you start messing with spindle/TP alignment.


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## Tenpounder

Tim9 said:


> I’ve read through the 3 pages of posts.... and haven’t seen any mention of leveling the lathe. The lathe must be properly leveled before you start aligning TP or spindle. Even though it’s a 24”, it can have bed twist. Trust me, it makes a big difference. You can get by with just a 6” precision machinist level. No need for 2 levels... but you really must level it before you start messing with spindle/TP alignment.



Your absolutely correct. I haven't leveled the lathe yet. I've been messing around with it in order to make sure the functionality of it is good. Also I have to make a home for it in my shop which is putting 10 lbs of stuff in a 5lb bag. I've been trying to layout my shop with a small machining spot, ie: lathe, mill, drill press, toolbox, bench. The shop is 28x36, one vehicle bay, gambrel roof, two story pole barn. It wasn't built with the intent for auto/machine/welding work so making it  is challenging at times. One side I have set up with my weld, auto equipment and mill. The other side has the mower, compressor, snowplow, motorcycle lift, ect... 
My thought with separating is getting grinding dust and crap all over the machines. Im getting covers for the machines but separating seems logical. 
Ideally I need to add another building but that's another story.


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## Tenpounder

Got around to working on the lathe again. While some are out of work. I'm in the middle of an outage at work. 6, 12 hour, night shift. For the past few weeks and the next few weeks. 
 I replaced the worn parts on the crossfeed. Works much better now. With .006" lash in the feed. Replaced all the felt wipers.


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## Tenpounder

When I took apart my compound to inspect and clean. I found some parts didn't add up and a missing gib screw. Upon inspection, the gib was to long so someone just left out the screw. I milled the end of the gib and purchased a new screw, missing thrust bearings, and plates. Parked my rear end on a bucket in front of the bench and started reassemble just to find the thrust bearings and plates don't fit in the bore of the compound....huh? Time to consult the manual.....
 Before I disassembled the compound there was a nut between the handwheel and take up-sleeve..... this is not in the manual. Not sure where to go from here.... I reassembled the compound as was found. But it still has a bit of play from the missing thrust washers. Any body have some input?


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## machPete99

Not sure what that nut is doing there, its not on mine. Only thing I can think of is maybe the leadscrew was replaced and the new one differs in dimensions so does not really fit correctly. You could probably get a drawing of the lead screw from clausing, or ask someone to take some measurements.

At some point I might want to redo my cross slide screw and nut, not sure I am quite ready and able it right now. Its probably best to buy a piece of premade leadscrew material and modify to fit.


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## Tenpounder

machPete99 said:


> Not sure what that nut is doing there, its not on mine. Only thing I can think of is maybe the leadscrew was replaced and the new one differs in dimensions so does not really fit correctly. You could probably get a drawing of the lead screw from clausing, or ask someone to take some measurements.
> 
> At some point I might want to redo my cross slide screw and nut, not sure I am quite ready and able it right now. Its probably best to buy a piece of premade leadscrew material and modify to fit.



Thanks for the support mach. If you happen to take apart your compound and remember this post, it would be great. No worries though, We'll get to the bottom of this. I contacted Clausing Service and Tom provided a drawing of the 704-033 tool post slide. I have to measure my slide. According to the drawing it is suppose to have a 5/8 radius. I know my compound slide is correct per my manual. It's embossed 704-034. I did find a manual for the 4900 10 inch lathes that depict the arrangement I have but it too is not exactly correct. The dial hub and tool post slide are different. I don't think anyone made a tool post slide as a replacement because mine is a cast part. The larger 14 inch 6900 series lathe has a different compound slide and tool post slide. So that rules out miss match there. I have considered milling the bore of my tool post slide but it would leave a .150" thickness at the top. That seems a bit thin and weak in my opinion.


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## Tenpounder

I'm continuing my endless search for an answer to my dilemma. I measured my tool post slide and found it to be accurate to the drawing provided by Clausing. That leads me to believe both compound slide and tool post slide are correct per my manual. I speculate my dial hub (382-029) could be different as the mounting holes and bore for the compound screw are nicely aligned in plane. This causes the screw and nut not to be centered in the tool slide bore. Currently waiting to hear back from Clausing for and drawing. 
 If the drawing matches my part, I can only assume the thrust bearings and washers are at fault. Perhaps Clausing purchases these third party and a change has happened to their design...... Seems plausible. Such things have happened before.


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## machPete99

Here are some pics of my compound setup on the 5914. The thrust washer packs are about 0.790" diameter by 0.172" thick (3 pieces: bearing plus 2 washers).  There are 2 thrust bearing packs on my compound, on either side of the dial hub. The drawing at the bottom of post #67 seems to show the wrong stackup, with the 2 thrust packs all together.


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## Tenpounder

MACHPETE..... YOU ROCK!!! Thats a HUGE help. I found a youtube video from Tubalcain where he services his compound. His and your disassembly are identical. This leads me to believe the Clausing manual is incorrect also and my compound has been bastardized. Although the bearings still do not fit into my tool post slide. Granted, it appears they don't require a lot of depth into the slide. In the video I watched, Tubalcain's tool post slide appeared to be ground with a deburr to open the bore to except the diameter and thickness of the trust bearings. I too, might have to do this. More measuring to follow. I'll be in your debt forever MachPete. Thank you!


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## machPete99

Maybe there was an older compound design that did not use the thrust bearings and that is what you have on yours. Mine does seem to be releived more above the leadscrew area. Note that one thrust washer is thinner than the rest and I think that goes against the outer surface of the dial hub plate.


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## Tenpounder

You could be absolutely correct Pete. After a review of my parts and couple quick measurements, I believe my set up came from factory. My take up sleeve is longer and sits proud for the dial surface a few thousandths. This provides clearance for the dial to spin but, leaves no clearance for a thrust bearing stack. The bushing in my dial hub also has a shoulder which decreases the clearance on the other side for a thrust bearing. All these parts appear to be from the 4900 series lathes. Perhaps my 5904 is early in production and missed the design change. At this point, I could service the components and run with it, or turn down the sleeve, bushing and open the slide to accept the thrust bearings. Currently leaning toward service and run. I am considering reaming the tool post slide for a ball oiler in order to get better lubrication to the screw.


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## Tenpounder

Last night, I was able to put the compound back together to as found condition. All the parts looked good. It now has .005 backlash.   Tolerable for my use. The spindle brake was beat, so I had some material from McMasterCarr to glue onto the shoe. Currently drying. I replace the motor bearings and meggered the motor insulation. Cleaned the motor stand and installed the motor with new hardware. I received a new VFD from GoHz.com. Time will tell if it's a quality product. I also received a thread dial for the lathe now it feels more complete. Next Tuesday I'll get to start messing with the VFD.


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## machPete99

Looks good! I think your need for the spindle brake will diminish with the VFS in there. In fact you could eliminate the whole reeves setup if you want. I have a thread on how I did that on mine. I also have lots of parts leftover if you need anything.


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## Tenpounder

Finally able to get the lathe running. Few weeks ago I got the VFD all wired in and operating. I placed the VFD under the chip pan. I think this will help keep the dust out of the unit. It's not an expensive unit as some I've seen. I did not wire in the clutch lever as it was before so now just the foward\reverse lever turn the lathe on. I wasn't able the figure out how to set up the VFD for the additional on\off input. Some day I will get back to that. I still have a list of things to do but at least it's running an usable to degree of precision. Many thanks to the members of HM. Few more questions though. With the VFD running the motor will it cut threads correctly? I'm a dummy as of right now. I have to get some learning in but a quick test the other day didn't work at all. Also I'm considering mounting the lathe up on square tube to make it a little more comfortable to operate, would this hinder anything as long as it's anchored?
Many thanks


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## machPete99

The VFD has nothing to do with thread cutting ability. Thread cutting only depends on the relative speed of the carriage travel to the spindle, which is controlled by the quick change gearbox.


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## Tenpounder

Got it. Thanks Pete99. Since all gearing is through the head stock and sliding gear to operate the quick change, motor speed has no effect on thread cutting ability. 
Currently I'm waiting for a live center to turn a hinge shaft for a hatch door operating mechanism in my shop (which is a barn). Helps to have the second floor stairwell closed off in the winter. I heat with solar collectors(wood). Also have to source some tube steel to raise the lathe.


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