# New (to me) Grizzly DF-1224G or G1003 lathe (aka Busybee/ Dai Fong DF-1224G)



## lSherlockl (Oct 16, 2021)

So about a month or so ago while hunting FB marketplace, craiglist etc. for a decent used benchtop or smaller lathe I stumbled on this guy. Initially listed at 500 bucks I was chomping at the bit/afraid something was critically wrong with it. turns out inexperienced seller and after some chatting and other peoples offers I ended up taking it home for just north of 1k (i hope/dont think that was tooo bad of a deal) here around WI its pretty dry for used machinery and I still drove 4 hrs each way to get it.

Edit its the 12x 24 should be enough to suit my needs and still plenty heavy/beefy




EDIT: above is before pic at pickup and below is after teardown cleaning and relubrication.




In situe in a walk out basement sure was interesting to move and absolutely filthy, but i was able to observe under power shift the gearbox and engage all the feeds and directions so it seemed all good for a novice, and the ways looked in good shape if not hella dirty which seemed to protect it at least.

Came with what I think are all the original accessories

the c shaped steady rest
circular 3 point steady rest
3 jaw chuck,
4 jaw chuck,
face plate,
original 4 way tool post,
the two change gears for metric (thank goodness found in the most oil and dirt caked plastic bag in a corner of one of the drawers),
original manuals (and receipt even)
as well as a 5C collet closer a rack of 5c collets in seemingly interesting assortment not really a full set but not complaining probably picked up as needed will likely do the same to finish that out.
a drawer full of assorted tooling not sure how much of it is good or not or what some of it is.
And the stand which apparently came from IBM once upon a time which used to be a cast iron table for punch card computers?
and like 3-4 buckets of aluminum and steel stock and scrap





packed up for the long ride home (think 3 stops along the way to recheck and readjust strapping and blocking) brought a engine hoist along and boy was I glad we did, took 2-3 hrs to remove machine and get it on the trailer and about 4 buckets of stuff out of the cabinet/stand which is cast iron by the way and weighs quite alot in itself




here she is home and awaiting disassembly and cleaning. also pro tip cover the sight gauges or the venturi effect will just suck all the oil out thru the air event holes!


I will admit there are some minor regrets after the drive to get it and back and the following cleanup and teardown which ill cover more in future post replies as man its been quite a lot of cleaning. I will also sprinkle in bits and pieces of "what is it" trying to figure out what something might be or if it may be something the previous owner included that may not even make sense in association with

I have my gallon of WD40, WD40 Degreaser, and mineral spirits and a ton of paper towels, and still quite a task ahead of me (even though at the time of writing this I'm a good ways  into it)


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## lSherlockl (Oct 16, 2021)

Figured I would follow this up with the mystical drawer of treasures 
	

		
			
		

		
	




couple of the tool holders for the smaller HSS square stock cutters, knurlers, reamers, some nice needle files jacobs mt2 chuck a few dead centers and a live center, knurlers and a bunch of generally unidentifiable stuff.

I really need to find a decent way to just clean the small bits up, probably small strainer in mineral spirits.




and the assortment of 5c collets all cleaned lightly oiled in their box which was also cleaned and de-crusted. Sort of no real rhyme reason or grouping too them but maybe im thinking too hard


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## fitterman1 (Oct 16, 2021)

No doubt one of their better offerings by the looks of it. Dual scales on the handles tells me it better than todays offerings


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## lSherlockl (Oct 16, 2021)

fitterman1 said:


> No doubt one of their better offerings by the looks of it. Dual scales on the handles tells me it better than todays offerings


its a 83' Taiwan make vs china but it does have the negative of being a different/older style so parts really non-existant or a absolute dice roll
at least a new grizz has parts support for at least 5-10 years. so far quality of it still seems to have some cut corners but much better quality than my Chinese made mill


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## T. J. (Oct 17, 2021)

Congrats on the new machine!

 I’m currently cleaning up an Enco badged version of the same lathe (with a 36” center distance).


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## Downunder Bob (Oct 17, 2021)

Looks like a good buy, at least it's Taiwanese so it should be a good machine. Does the original documentation say what factory it was built in?


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## markba633csi (Oct 17, 2021)

Nice set of collets, those will come in handy.  Good deal overall, and it's a gap bed too it looks like
-M
PS cool art-deco stand


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## Ulma Doctor (Oct 17, 2021)

nice score on the lathe and tooling, you did very well.
it looks very similar to my newer (1985) Shenwai SW900B 1236
the removeable gap is a sweet feature if you need to swing larger work 
the t-slotted cross slide is cool too


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## lSherlockl (Oct 17, 2021)

I Don't' have any documentation as to the original factory just the Grizzly manual the DAI Fong Instruction and spare parts manual, original invoice/receipt which is kind of neat (i paid less than it was new)

And yes its a gap bed debating if I should pull and clean the gap while i have it apart or leave it as it just mated up so perfectly like I cant feel that there is a joint though I can clearly see it, so they did their job well.


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## lSherlockl (Oct 17, 2021)

here is the first bits of cleanup and experimenting on what works well doesn't hurt the paint etc. everything was coated in a thick grime of I think oil+ grinding swarf or dust/saw dust absolutely sucky to clean up and you'll see some awful stuff later but most everything so far has come out looking great with little to no wear. It probably actually helped protect or hold the oil in place if it sat unused for quite some time no rust on it at all.
	

		
			
		

		
	



can kind of see the lovely black coating of **** here (I already cleaned the crossfeed and gave much of everything a wiped own for major stuff)


tailstock off for teardown, cleaning and relubrication.



and all fresh ready to go spins nice and smooth, though i will say it was quite fiddly to get the spindle lock orientated just right when re-assembling must have took 8 or 9 tries to get it just right though yeah hindsight i could have just pulled the stop pin for the locking lever and then just spun it  till snug and re-inserted the pin


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## lSherlockl (Nov 8, 2021)

build/restoration process slowed/halted by the broken gear or gearshaft in the apron, and debating how to transit it into the basement before winter (and being partially apart may help that.

But being a wild and brash individual I had a nice coupon that would let me pick up a quick change tool post pretty reasonable, from sizing guides BXA covered 12 in swing  and thats what i got so bigger = beefier = more stable right. and that's what I went with. I couldn't find detailed specs on tool heights but i decided grab it and see.



so figured the knurling attachment would be easy to see as it has the tool baked into it. tool mount is not bottomed out on the compound and nearly as low as it can go and it sits below center point think we are good?



took a normal tool holder out and dropped that in as well once again nearly bottoming it out on he compound (ignore the fact its spun around ) and the top edge of the tool holder just below center/at center 

overall the tool post is almost as wide as the compound. the question is while its still "new" did I do a dumb or should i return it for a AXA?

I think though optimally you want the tool as low on the post as you can as its the most rigid right? just want to make sure i have the right sizing to fit or use with my machine.


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## fitterman1 (Nov 8, 2021)

I think the criteria you should be asking yourself is, what tools are you going to be using ?
Insert tooling tips normally sit high in their respective holder, which may force you to drop your toolpost holder lower still.
Hss tooling will be fine with your bxa cause you can pack them up to compensate.
I use 1/2" and 5/8 " square shank indexable holders in my axa's on my g0602.
5/8" won't fit in axa's so i machine them out or remove metal from the bottom of the tool to fit the slot.
I would stick with the bxa's because you have a stiff looking lathe.
This is a 5/8" tool in an axa. Axa machined to lower the slot.


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## fitterman1 (Nov 8, 2021)

Imagine how rigid a bxa would be fitted to your toolpost.


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## fitterman1 (Nov 8, 2021)

I've even experimented doing this to some toolholders.
Same insert but a 1" shank. As long as it fits center height and does the job who cares what hangs off your toolpost.


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## fitterman1 (Nov 8, 2021)

This one is machined down to fit axa.


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## lSherlockl (Nov 8, 2021)

thanks all very good points.

I think my gap between centerline and compound is at a perfectly annoying height/spot kind of smack between AXA and BXA

Its reasonably beefy for being a 12x24 but at the same time I don't want to unnecessarily bulk it up for no good reason.

I really haven't delved into getting tooling yet, it came with a bunch of stuff for lantern toll post with small square HSS inserts if you can call them that.

Probably a mixture of insert tooling because to be fair im a hobbiest and their simplicity or ease or replacing a damaged or worn insert is attractive, but likely work with alot of aluminum so HSS will see plenty of use too.

though on the flip side its always easier to mount or secure a smaller tool than a larger one. i should dig out the original 4 way tool post to compare its supported height ranges


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## fitterman1 (Nov 8, 2021)

To be fair you could pick either size.
I personally would go bxa for more rigidity which would mean less vibration and chatter.
Your lathe looks like it has a heftier crosslide than my g0602 which makes me tend towards the bxa.
Obviously cost of the bxa is more compared to axa and you have to take that into account also.
Either way I'm confident it will be a great lathe.


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## Downunder Bob (Nov 8, 2021)

Yes BXA should be the best choice for your lathe. Generally BXA fits all 12XX machines.

I also find some AXA items a little on the light side, certainly not as rigid as they could be.


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## lSherlockl (Nov 9, 2021)

Downunder Bob said:


> Yes BXA should be the best choice for your lathe. Generally BXA fits all 12XX machines.
> 
> I also find some AXA items a little on the light side, certainly not as rigid as they could be.



thanks both to you and fitterman1 I am more confident with sticking with the BXA. Just really wanted to double check or sanity check that it was within reason.

cheers!


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## lSherlockl (Jan 19, 2022)

So long over due update. Over the holidays with some extra vacation completed disassembly and cleanup and of course i should have taken more pictures or document more along the way but its hard to remember and harder when you are all covered in grease dirt and oil 

Had to repair a broken gear tooth on the gear shaft that moves the carriage along the tooth rack so got a opportunity to learn brazing as well as appreciate quality endmills. I will admit i cheated and spent quality time with hand files to match the profiles you can not feel any difference or extra resistance or binding of the carriage so it all seems good.





I will say the next most annoying part was the headstock that teardown took a bit more to figure out and was absolutely caked in old grease. that and the spindle bearings do have sort of a press fit to the spindle so pulling the spindle out was a bit of a treat.

I will say re-assembly is much more fun its all clean parts and it goes much faster very satisfying 


and there she is all back together still shows its age/wear on the chip pan but really not much ear on anything else from tear down, there is some scratches on the carriage drive rod, and the gear shifter levers feel a pit finicky but I'm kind of guessing that is the case on most smaller/import machines (as in you kind of waggle them so your confident its engaged or disengaged). The ways and gears all seem very good shape I think overall I was very lucky for a old small machine.



I have not trammed in the machine yet but decided to make a few chips and test things out after mounting the new BXA tool post, which fits just fine looks a little large but fits and centers with my 5/8 in insert tool holders.

About a thou out in diameter over a inch so work to do yet, but not horrendous for a 4 hr ride on a trailer and being torn completely apart down stairs and reassembled.  I really need to get a machinist level to help with those activities I can fortunately (or maybe unfortunately as it adds a point of complexity) rotate the head in reference to the bed but still need to rule in or out bed twist first. Lot to learn yet there and get the tail stock trued up too.


*the to do list *
Decide on where it will live permanently in the shop and finalize wiring to it.

Cleanup the primary drawer and contents (original hss tooling other small parts etc but that is alot alot of cleaning)

Get a DRO setup on it yes i should get better at counting/reading dials but a dro is so handy.

This is much so for the future i think is either convert motor to brushless or VFD + 3ph motor? the jump/jolt especially at the higher belt speed settings is very annoying as there is sort of no ramping up.

Overall quite happy and j


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## fitterman1 (Jan 19, 2022)

Looking great, what taper do you have in the spindle? Im guessing a mt4.
You may want to get a precision mandrel for adjusting the headstock.


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## matthewsx (Jan 19, 2022)

Looking good, I have a Samson labeled version with a 36" bed. I think these lathes are a great value for the hobby shop.

I paid $850 for mine and have already changed it over to 3 phase, highly recommended....

John


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## jwmay (Jan 19, 2022)

Idk how I missed this, but just wanted to say I had a Grizzly G4002, which was very similar. I loved it. I regret selling it. And every single time I search for lathes, I hope to find another. Lol.
So, good job, and enjoy! And I had an AXA toolpost on mine. It seemed just fine. I never felt as if a different toolpost would have been an advantage.


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## BROCKWOOD (Jan 20, 2022)

Yours is the perfect cross-slide for the BXA QCTP. My 12 x 27 = not so much. I had to learn how to turn holders & inserts down. You had commented that Grizzly replacement parts are generally available for 5 to 10 years. That wasn't the case for mine. Now my experiences are pre-pandemic, so they may not apply. 6 month wait was the norm. Pouring through current parts manuals to find what I needed (my G0773 has been discontinued) became the norm. Buying extras is highly recommended! 

Looking forward to seeing what you can do with your lathe! I'm all ready blown away by your gear tooth repair.


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## MikeInOr (Jan 20, 2022)

That is a really nice looking lathe!  And I think you are right about the grease and gunk being a rust inhibitor.  I know it isn't a fun clean up but they way it turned out with no rust at all makes the gunk cleanout worth the effort.

Great job on the gear tooth repair!


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## lSherlockl (Feb 8, 2022)

Thanks for all the kind words and feedback, I'm still just an aspiring hobbyist and alot to learn. And i really need to sit down and spend some quality time tramming in the machine. (is it still tramming on a lathe?) Got a machinist level to check the bed and still need to get to a metal supplier around me to get some stock to do the testing setup/dial in the machine.

that being said i already had the opportunity to do a few operations with it even in its current state, where its not super precise parts just trimming down round things and making some small bushings or spacers, so happy how quick or easy a fly by the seat of your pants approach is for "basic" jobs. Definitely seems very easy to get the "feel" of.

Definately on the list for "future upgrades" is VFD 3 Phase or Brushless motor the sort of jump or lack of ramp up on the motor is reasonably annoying.

I also have one annoying part the cross feed has about a 2ish inch sticky spot or tight spot in its travel. when apart nothing was obvious ie: a ding or a burr, it seems odd that it would be from wear as i would expect the inverse I think a small section of easy movement and larger areas of stiffness. I'm betting either the gib or the dovetail cut something is a little out of sync or spec and at this time I don't have the skills to tackle that so I think ill just live with it for now.

Ill do a follow-up after tramming and hoping I don't need to align the head to the bed but betting that may need adjustment it has traveled a good distance and bounced around alot before ending in my shop


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## lSherlockl (Feb 22, 2022)

So not sure if its best to ask it here, or in one of the general sub forums, but having some interesting issues with tramming/dialing the machine in.

So first I think its worth it to go over what the machine stand is.

the Stand is a cast iron table once used by IBM for punch card era computers (why they used cast iron IDK) but its quite heavy 200-300 lbs or so angle irons re-enforcing the legs and sort of making a rectangle at the bottom. Otherwise it would just be the "vertical" legs with no bracing it has some home made or modified castors solid metal i think a aluminum variety about 2-3 in wide press fit bearings in there. It rolls alright for something as heavy as the complete thing with lathe on top would ~600-800 lb range in total resting on the casters I would guess.

Anyhow moving onto my questions and or issues when it comes to tramming. So got my level calibrated its a old ish VIS .0005" over 10" sensitivity should be plenty for a home shop/hobbiest.  Son on this lathe the ways include two flats and two triangular prisms and from my understanding going in both should be fine reference surfaces and are precision ground.

First thing I realize is that my floor is not level or the machine /stand is not quite level as placing the level across triangular prisms on the ways not even close to registering in a readable range, okay check the flats with 123 blocks (that I checked on the surface plate and "trust" to be matched) okay thats also out of a readable range. Okay spin the machine around (its on casters) thinking like spinning a level on a plane and that zeroing process. but alas no dice there either assume the table surface or maybe the machine itself may not be parallel to the base or to the feet.

I know the machine doesnt need to be level to accurately operate (ie ships etc) the level is for comparative measurements related to earth to compare various points of the machine. So I go and jack up the stand on wood blocks (probably should have gotten proper sized machinist jacks or something metal and less give) but whatever I'm having fun and learning. get the stand jacked to the point where putting levels of stand or rather the chip tray that's on the stand would read in a range of being level and then measuring the ways for twist. First thing i find out in short order is that the flat spots are parallel or co-planer but the triangular prisms are not one is higher than the other which is annoying and may have helped throw me for a loop earlier. 

Take plenty of measurements spend more time that I would like to think checking shimming re checking finally think I' may not quite be perfectly happy but I'm at the point where taking a test cut can start helping dial things in so follow the "barbell" sort of process  using a 4 jaw which is more or less new or was hardly used so less slop in the jaws and more secure work holding.  take a few fine passes after making the relief cut and I'm getting a taper of about .00175 over 5 inches not terrible  using just under 1 in dia 12L14  (as my mic is a 1 inch) and cutting with a carbide cutter. knowing my diameter is a bit small and with carbide being a higher pressure in terms of cutting force I decide it might be "alright" or somewhat within reason But I want to see if removing it from the wood blocks and resting back on its metal castors reduces vibrations basically make it more stable. 

So remove the blocks so stand is back in direct contact with the floor, take my light cut again and now we have a more significant taper going the other way like (so small end toward chuck) .00715 over 5 inches wow that's not great clearly to me the legs are translating the floor surface and or having a impact on the table top and thereby the machine which is bolted to it. I want to check that hypothesis so I rotate the machine about 90 degrees thinking change the angle of that the legs are referencing on the floor will prove that its translating that to the table and in short twisting the machine. So take another cut and we are just over a thou different after rotating the machine, clearly yes the legs are translating to a extent the floor to the table and thereby the machine.


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## lSherlockl (Feb 22, 2022)

So I know the above is a bit of a long winded story but any thoughts of what I was doing wrong etc appreciated.

I think one of the key notes is i have 4 legs on my stand if my floor is not perfectly level i would expect some "wobble" if the stand was rigid i.e. one leg would not touch properly or fully at some point. But they do so basically my rectangular prism of a stand despite being nice and "solid" and made of cast iron is contorting to match the floor and easier to see/magnifying if you move it. if you leave it put perminately sure you could account for it or adjust accordingly (also be a good idea to level/remove or adjust for twist in stand before putting machine on it)

I get having a mobile machine is counter intuitive basically meaning you will screw up precision if you shift it some sort of feet vs wheels much more desirable. The thing is i know people also put small machines like this on a tool chest or on top of a tool chest and in my mind I'm like how the heck can that not see the same issues or worse. Or is it that there is just more "twist" occurring in my stand.

By no means do I need insane precision but from a concept perspective I'm wondering what some options are in terms of stand, I think having a wheel option to move if needed is nice (my mill has feet and removeable wheels so I can roll it if I need to but it lives on adjustable feet. 

I think maybe adding braces or diagonal braces could go a ways to firm up the existing stand but its cast iron so at least for me welding is out and i imagine bolting pieces on still not the best as holes and bolts can have a bit of slop. I will also note my shop is small, I had considered at some point down the road switching to it living on a tool chest (for better storage under it) but I can only imagine that will be much worse.

In short just going a bit insane chasing zeros and wanted to know if anyone else has been there and what is a reasonable compromise etc.


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## jwmay (Feb 22, 2022)

If I'm one of the "some people" you refer to. I wouldn't bank on what I'm doing as acceptable. I barely make anything longer than an inch. I've never even checked anything for level, square, twist, etc. MY parts have virtually no precision requirement. Even when they do, I've found that nothing I do is as demanding as people act like it has to be.  I'm making parts for me. I have pretty low standards. If it works, or I learned something, the project succeeded. Lol But if you're planning on making things 5" long, you're gonna have to sort it out.  I'll leave the advice to those who are not in the "some people" camp. Lol
Edit: .0017"? Never mind. I don't think there's anything wrong with your setup, and I would move on with no further changes or effort.


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## lSherlockl (Feb 22, 2022)

jwmay said:


> If I'm one of the "some people" you refer to. I wouldn't bank on what I'm doing as acceptable. I barely make anything longer than an inch. I've never even checked anything for level, square, twist, etc. MY parts have virtually no precision requirement. Even when they do, I've found that nothing I do is as demanding as people act like it has to be.  I'm making parts for me. I have pretty low standards. If it works, or I learned something, the project succeeded. Lol But if you're planning on making things 5" long, you're gonna have to sort it out.  I'll leave the advice to those who are not in the "some people" camp. Lol
> Edit: .0017"? Never mind. I don't think there's anything wrong with your setup, and I would move on with no further changes or effort.



Thanks for the feedback and by no means did i mean "Some people" as a derogatory remark, I just seen pictures or know that some people put them on a tool chest and went heck yes storage i want that. it was just like they got to do alright by it, do they have the same issues or see similar stuff as me.

So .0017" was jacked up on wood blocks to level it so i could actually compare the bed/remove twist via shimming. setting it back down in the same spot on its legs I got -.00725" rotate the machine on its stand 90 degrees on the floor i get -.00615" so a thou over five inches by moving the machine some doesn't seem horrible. 

I feel like I have descended the rabbit hole of accuracy and still planning the permanent home for it in the shop and its just making me wonder rethinking its current and or future stand, was mainly what I was getting at. 

Really the peace of mind that I am trying to get to is that the head stock is properly orientated to the bed. On this lathe you can adjust the head but its a PITA and generically I want to avoid doing it if I don't need to but I'm not sure if i can get to the point of proving it accurate or not which annoys me. I feel like I can grip twist of stand or moving objects will adjust that twist and you can measure or calibrate if needed but i want to get to the sanity check point that the headstock orientation is true I'm only the second owner but its a import lathe that also has been hoisted a few times bounced on a trailer for 4-5 hrs and torn apart and traveled down a flight of stairs. 

Sort of want to prove a truth that I can assume is true for any future adjustments if needed. IE for sanity i trust my surface plate if flat or that a certain square is square, but I cant assume that particular key relationship is right as i cant quite get to the point to check it as i cant prove or disprove the bed is properly not twisted, and that any error remains in the headstock alignment.

The funny thing is i don't think anything i will do would need insane precision its more of a personal OCD or setup thing being new to this realm of stuff that the tool is properly setup that i can trace inaccuracy to me or what I'm doing rather than some original setup step.


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## Musky_Hunter (Feb 22, 2022)

Looks like a good machine.  There are days when I wish my 1440 was a 1425.


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## jwmay (Feb 22, 2022)

No worries here! You didn't hurt my feelings. Lol 
So you want to verify the headstock is accurately positioned?


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## lSherlockl (Feb 22, 2022)

jwmay said:


> No worries here! You didn't hurt my feelings. Lol
> So you want to verify the headstock is accurately positioned?



That was my goal or intent so then its safe to assume or adjust anything else based on bed or twist or the stand if I need too
and to verify or dial in the headstock i need to prove or ellimate twist from the bed/ways was my understanding

I also was partially wondering if I should be using HSS cutters for such test cuts as they require less tool pressure less likely to flex the material when cutting.

I also just got a larger micrometer which would allow me to dot he same test on larger diameter stock which could help rule out the flex of a .9" diameter bar, but i think my biggest variable at the moment is stability of the stand (and the fact that even if i left it on the casters I am not in a measurable range with the level to validate no twist in the bed.


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## jwmay (Feb 22, 2022)

Your front and rear prismatic ways are not the same height, correct?


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## matthewsx (Feb 22, 2022)

NASA just called and said your parts are within tolerance so nothing to worry about

John


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## lSherlockl (Feb 22, 2022)

jwmay said:


> Your front and rear prismatic ways are not the same height, correct?


correct I don't have a great way to measure the exact difference but from a comparative standpoint its the same height from the flat to the prismatic. indicator less than .0005 of variance along the length of either of the ways. Indicating say the back flat to the top of the back prismatic then to the front prismatic distinctly the front prismatic is taller by more than the measurement of my dial indicator. The carriage rides on the front prismatic and rear flat way, and the tailstock on the front flat and rear prismatic way. So i ended up doing my comparisons using 123 blocks as the two flat ways were on the same plane but threw me for a loop for awhile trying to do anything with a level off of the prismatic ways.



matthewsx said:


> NASA just called and said your parts are within tolerance so nothing to worry about
> 
> John


ha ha, you are no doubt right some of it is I have absolutely no clue of what is normal aside of trying to match what the test accuracy is in the original test certification sheet from the factory from 1883

Clearly I am feeling a case of far too much research reading and overthinking, which in the lack of experience I prefer to revert to doing, rather than screw up my "fancy" new or rather in this case old toys


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## matthewsx (Feb 22, 2022)

1883? That's the year my Michigan house was built.

Practically brand new....

You're not likely to break it and if you do we'll help you fix it up again.

John


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## jwmay (Feb 22, 2022)

lSherlockl said:


> That was my goal or intent so then its safe to assume or adjust anything else based on bed or twist or the stand if I need too
> and to verify or dial in the headstock i need to prove or ellimate twist from the bed/ways was my understanding


Seems like you're trying to work ahead. Just take one problem and address it. Set the lathe up where and how you want it. I doubt you need to fortify the stand. But after that's done, worry about fixing bed twist. After that's done, worry about headstock alignment. Take smaller bites. Yeah?


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## Navy Chief (Feb 22, 2022)

Have you considered putting the level on top of the cross slide and moving the carriage from one to the other to measure? The measurement you are interested in includes the relationship between the carriage and the bed. 

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## gard (Feb 23, 2022)

Very nice write up, thanks for sharing. I understand the desire to make it as accurate as possible as a goal in itself. From a practical standpoint, if I have a taper of a mil or 2, I hit it with a file. By the way there are special long angle files made specifically for lathes that work better. Also turning between centers or with a steady rest.
 If you did need to stiffen the cast iron legs you could bolt diagonal braces on, the bolt holes are typically made a little oversized, torqueing down the nuts clamps the two parts together. Not really sure that is desirable or necessary as even a very rigid cast iron tool will bend and twist a little over time. Also it messes with under lathe storage.
Flex of your test bar (or chuck jaws) under cutting loads can easily cause a tapered shaft, 1" dia by 5" or 6" long. I think very sharp HSS is a good idea, make sure GIBs are adjusted, well oiled, make sure compound rest and cross slide screws were last turned inward. If cutting forces are part of the confusion I think you will typically have a larger diameter further from the chuck. Aluminum will have lower cutting forces than steel.
Consider getting a test bar that fits in the headstock taper. Or use the dumbell you have made and use a test indicator on it as the saddle is moved back and forth to more quickly see the effects of changing leveling up and down with no cutting force. Having leveling feet that can be adjusted will be way easier than shims, I suspect these could be at the floor, adjacent to the rollers or between the lathe and table. I think being able to adjust the headstock relative to the bed could be a huge advantage, on my lathe it is machined to fit so not easy to change if its out. 
For leveling the lathe there are different ways to attack it. 1) Adjust it so it cuts strait who cares how level. 2)Adjust it level to the original machined lathe datums, need to find surfaces on your lathe that are not worn. Or as navy chief suggested use the top of the saddle which adjusts it level based on the existing possibly worn V way surfaces. If I were adjusting to cut strait, I think I would record how far out of level it is so I could adjust it back if the lathe  is moved.


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## lSherlockl (Feb 24, 2022)

gard said:


> Very nice write up, thanks for sharing. I understand the desire to make it as accurate as possible as a goal in itself. From a practical standpoint, if I have a taper of a mil or 2, I hit it with a file. By the way there are special long angle files made specifically for lathes that work better. Also turning between centers or with a steady rest.
> If you did need to stiffen the cast iron legs you could bolt diagonal braces on, the bolt holes are typically made a little oversized, torqueing down the nuts clamps the two parts together. Not really sure that is desirable or necessary as even a very rigid cast iron tool will bend and twist a little over time. Also it messes with under lathe storage.
> Flex of your test bar (or chuck jaws) under cutting loads can easily cause a tapered shaft, 1" dia by 5" or 6" long. I think very sharp HSS is a good idea, make sure GIBs are adjusted, well oiled, make sure compound rest and cross slide screws were last turned inward. If cutting forces are part of the confusion I think you will typically have a larger diameter further from the chuck. Aluminum will have lower cutting forces than steel.
> Consider getting a test bar that fits in the headstock taper. Or use the dumbell you have made and use a test indicator on it as the saddle is moved back and forth to more quickly see the effects of changing leveling up and down with no cutting force. Having leveling feet that can be adjusted will be way easier than shims, I suspect these could be at the floor, adjacent to the rollers or between the lathe and table. I think being able to adjust the headstock relative to the bed could be a huge advantage, on my lathe it is machined to fit so not easy to change if its out.
> For leveling the lathe there are different ways to attack it. 1) Adjust it so it cuts strait who cares how level. 2)Adjust it level to the original machined lathe datums, need to find surfaces on your lathe that are not worn. Or as navy chief suggested use the top of the saddle which adjusts it level based on the existing possibly worn V way surfaces. If I were adjusting to cut strait, I think I would record how far out of level it is so I could adjust it back if the lathe  is moved.


thanks lots or really good info and summarization!

I do love the saddle thought or trick can also check the compound travel in relation to its ways with that mentality as well but ill hold off going too insane.

I think for now it needs its "permanent" spot in my shop and wiring ran (rather than mooching off the 220 outlet for my mill).

I'll post more updates of a aspiring NASA machinist  or when I come down to earth with chasing zeros.


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## Sparkynutz (Mar 11, 2022)

Nice thread! Good find. Where are you at in WI? I'm near Fond Du Lac. Hopefully I can find some equipment or someone close by to learn from and offer help for a few occaisional machining projects.


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## lSherlockl (Mar 15, 2022)

Sparkynutz said:


> Nice thread! Good find. Where are you at in WI? I'm near Fond Du Lac. Hopefully I can find some equipment or someone close by to learn from and offer help for a few occaisional machining projects.


IM in the fox valley area so just a little north from you. I had a difficult time finding anything in the "small" category and or not beat up, hence I ended up needing a road trip to get this one.

I'm a absolute novice so sorry that I cant really be much of any help in terms of learning as I'm in the same spot myself.


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## jwmay (Mar 16, 2022)

lSherlockl said:


> I'm a absolute novice so sorry that I cant really be much of any help in terms of learning as I'm in the same spot myself.


Aww shucks! Give yourself a few weeks of reading and you'll be the armchair expert that half of us are! Ha!
A couple months of oopsies with the lathe and you'll have some definite hard line opinions on some topics. 
A couple years into it, those will probably soften up a bit. 
Enjoy the transitions!!


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## Road_Clam (Mar 16, 2022)

It disappoints me to see nice hobby machines become rotting piles of junk. It warms me to see new guys take the initiative to restore the machines to clean woking quality. Once your lathe is clean and oiled the week to week cleanliness upkeep is very minimal. Heres a quick pic of my brand new G9962Z ready to go from my shed to my basement workshop. Ive had to fix a ton of "less than ideal assembly"  from the China assembly factory. She will be a smooth runner when its back together. Good luck O/P !


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## DeanB (Mar 22, 2022)

lSherlockl said:


> IM in the fox valley area so just a little north from you. I had a difficult time finding anything in the "small" category and or not beat up, hence I ended up needing a road trip to get this one.
> 
> I'm a absolute novice so sorry that I cant really be much of any help in terms of learning as I'm in the same spot myself.


Hi I'm in Freedom but work in Neenah.  New at this all too.  Might be worth sharing some experiences!


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