# 3 phase motor plate says 200v?



## TheArsonSmith (Oct 4, 2018)

I'm hooking up a VFD to power a Clausing 1500 lathe.  I know this machine was powered by standard commercial 3 phase when I picked it up and tested it, although I don't know for sure if it was 240v or 480v, assumed 240v.   There's no other electronics in the lathe except reversing switches.  I got my VFD and starting going through the numbers and found this 200v a little confusing.  Any help deciphering what numbers I need to put into the VFD would be helpful.

Thanks,
-Bill Warner


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## Bob Korves (Oct 4, 2018)

That is a good old American motor.  We never used that voltage, at least not in the time period that motor was made in.  My best GUESS is that the person setting up the badge stamping machine had a hangover that day and accidentally set up 200 instead of 220, 230, or 240.  I wonder how many other motors got the same incorrect badge...


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## TheArsonSmith (Oct 4, 2018)

I kind of figured as much.  I can't seem to find any other information on this motor.  I've tried 200v and 240v and both seem to under power the motor some, although I haven't gone through the auto tuneing with the VFD yet.  This was all just the initial make the motor turn part of hooking up the VFD.


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## Bob Korves (Oct 4, 2018)

Is the VFD rated for 7.5 HP or more?  If nothing else, take it to a local motor shop and have them look at it.  They can check out a motor in a few minutes, and might well do it for free.  Of course, that one is no lightweight...


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## FOMOGO (Oct 4, 2018)

208V used to be fairly common, but have never seen 200V. I think Bob has the most probable answer. Mike


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## Blackjackjacques (Oct 4, 2018)

Something seems off on the motor unless I am reading the nameplate wrong.  The nameplate shows 7.5 hp = 5.6 kW, while the kVA rating is 23A x 200V x 1.73 = 4602 kVA. The kVA rating in this case is usually about 1.2 times greater than the brake horsepower.


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## TheArsonSmith (Oct 4, 2018)

Bob Korves said:


> Is the VFD rated for 7.5 HP or more?  If nothing else, take it to a local motor shop and have them look at it.  They can check out a motor in a few minutes, and might well do it for free.  Of course, that one is no lightweight...



Yea, it's a 10HP VFD.  For reference I included the VFD tag as an additional picture.


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## TheArsonSmith (Oct 4, 2018)

Blackjackjacques said:


> Something seems off on the motor unless I am reading the nameplate wrong.  The nameplate shows 7.5 hp = 5.6 kW, while the kVA rating is 23A x 200V x 1.73 = 4602 kVA. The kVA rating in this case is usually about 1.2 times greater than the brake horsepower.



did you miss the square of 3?

V * A * √3 = kVA
200 * 23 * 1.73 = 7958.00 seems a bit high...going to 220 or 240 would push it really high.

200 * 23 = 4600

240 * 23 = 5520 closer to the numbers but still not the right formula


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## TheArsonSmith (Oct 4, 2018)

What kind of tolerance should a motor like this have, if the label was assumed to be right but it was run on standard 208v, 220v or 240v 3 phase is it likely to be ok?


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## TheArsonSmith (Oct 4, 2018)

Bob Korves said:


> That is a good old American motor.  We never used that voltage, at least not in the time period that motor was made in.  My best GUESS is that the person setting up the badge stamping machine had a hangover that day and accidentally set up 200 instead of 220, 230, or 240.  I wonder how many other motors got the same incorrect badge...



Is there a way to reverse engineer this and find out what it should be?


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## Technical Ted (Oct 4, 2018)

The Reliance 2HP motor I got with my new to me 13" South Bend lathe was labeled 200 Volt as well. At the bottom of the tag is also stamped "SUIT 208V". I just took a picture of it the other day so I could list it on Craigslist. 

Your drive says +/- 20%. I would hook it up and if you have a current meter take a reading on each leg and see what you get, just to make sure you're in the range.

Ted


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## stupoty (Oct 4, 2018)

TheArsonSmith said:


> I'm hooking up a VFD to power a Clausing 1500 lathe.  I know this machine was powered by standard commercial 3 phase when I picked it up and tested it, although I don't know for sure if it was 240v or 480v, assumed 240v.   There's no other electronics in the lathe except reversing switches.  I got my VFD and starting going through the numbers and found this 200v a little confusing.  Any help deciphering what numbers I need to put into the VFD would be helpful.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Bill Warner



Japan might use a 200v 3 phase system , perhaps it was made for export but stayed in america or perhaps went to japan and found it's way back.

Stu


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## BaronJ (Oct 4, 2018)

Hi Guys,

There could easily be a 10% (20 volt) tolerance on the motor voltage !


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## JimDawson (Oct 4, 2018)

The easy way to do it is to just set the VFD output to 200V, then there is no question that it will work.  I'm doing that with the spindle motor on my lathe.


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## CluelessNewB (Oct 4, 2018)

200V motors were actually rather commonly used in by schools in the US.   (I have 2 machines with 200V motors that came from schools)    Many but not all VFD's will allow you to set the motor voltage.  One example that I know that will *NOT* allow you to do that is the Teco FM50.  Most other Teco VFD's will allow you to set the motor voltage.


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## TheArsonSmith (Oct 4, 2018)

CluelessNewB said:


> 200V motors were actually rather commonly used in by schools in the US.   (I have 2 machines with 200V motors that came from schools)    Many but not all VFD's will allow you to set the motor voltage.  One example that I know that will *NOT* allow you to do that is the Teco FM50.  Most other Teco VFD's will allow you to set the motor voltage.



Its a Huan Yang VFD, GT series, so it's got a lot of features and I can set the voltage to pretty much anything from 1-500v.  I think to be safe for now I'm going to set the VFD to 200V and run through the auto tune and see how well the motor runs.  If I can't get good satisfactory performance out of it I may run it up to a local motor shop and see if they can give me any insight as suggested above.  It is quite a beast though.


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## higgite (Oct 4, 2018)

200V is the common voltage rating for a motor designed to be used on a nominal 208V power supply. Similar to 230V motors for nominal 240V supply and 460V motors for nominal 480V supply. It allows for voltage drop over the feeder from supply to motor.

Tom


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## TheArsonSmith (Oct 4, 2018)

higgite said:


> 200V is the common voltage rating for a motor designed to be used on a nominal 208V power supply. Similar to 230V motors for nominal 240V supply and 460V motors for nominal 480V supply. It allows for voltage drop over the feeder from supply to motor.
> 
> Tom



Also seems to be common in El Salvador and Japan:
https://www.worldstandards.eu/three-phase-electric-power/


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## Technical Ted (Oct 4, 2018)

CluelessNewB said:


> 200V motors were actually rather commonly used in by schools in the US.   (I have 2 machines with 200V motors that came from schools)    Many but not all VFD's will allow you to set the motor voltage.  One example that I know that will *NOT* allow you to do that is the Teco FM50.  Most other Teco VFD's will allow you to set the motor voltage.



That makes sense since my lathe originally came out of a school shop.

Ted


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## Blackjackjacques (Oct 4, 2018)

TheArsonSmith said:


> did you miss the square of 3?
> 
> V * A * √3 = kVA
> 200 * 23 * 1.73 = 7958.00 seems a bit high...going to 220 or 240 would push it really high.
> ...




No - I got the square root of three in there - the "1.73" and my calcs are fine for the 7.5 hp motor

If it is a 10 horse motor and not 7.5 as it appears to show on the nameplate, then kW = 7.56, and at lets say 95% power factor, the kVA rating is 7560/.95 = 7.96 kVA.  At 7.96 kVA, the current at 200V = 23A as shown on the nameplate.

I would set the VFD for the 200V setting.  Most US appliances are configured for +/- 10%.  Motors usually have wider permitted excursions, say -10 +15%.   At full load continuous, you should see 23A phase current and you could easily confirm with a clamp-on current meter.  To answer your question, you should be able to run at 200, 208, 220, 230, 240, etc.

Best

Jim


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## higgite (Oct 4, 2018)

You got the calcs wrong. TheArsonSmith is right. 200 volts x 23 amps x 1.73 = 7958 VA = 7.96 KVA no matter how you cut it.
It is a 7.5HP motor as indicated. 7.5HP = 5.59 KW. All that means is the motor power factor x it's efficiency = 70%. Not great, but not too bad for a motor of that size and that age

Tom


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## Blackjackjacques (Oct 4, 2018)

higgite said:


> You got the calcs wrong. TheArsonSmith is right. 200 volts x 23 amps x 1.73 = 7958 VA = 7.96 KVA no matter how you cut it.
> It is a 7.5HP motor as indicated. 7.5HP = 5.59 KW. All that means is the motor power factor x it's efficiency = 70%. Not great, but not too bad for a motor of that size and that age
> 
> Tom


I got the formula correct (V*A*1.73 = VA) but for some reason, I got 4.6 kVA instead of the correct 7.96 kVA.  I agree, .7 pf seems correct for a motor this size /vintage.


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