# South Bend 9A 644R Advice on purchase?



## FriscoMustang (Jan 26, 2021)

Thanks for taking a minute to help a newbie. I’ve been doing some very minor fabrication in my home garage and have decided I’d really like a lathe. I had my eye on a good looking, possibly restored 618, but after doing more research decided I wanted to go ahead and get a lathe that I could grow with a bit. I’ve looked a little at the Asian lathes and may still end up there, but I just can’t get over the idea that heavy metal would make me happier in the long run. I’ve come across this SB 9A 644R for what I think is a very good price. Spoke to the owner this afternoon and he said it was originally used in a machine shop at a Greyhound station, then used for 25 years or so by it’s 2nd owner, and finally ended up with him where it largely sat under a tarp in the back of his (apparently very humid) automotive shop. He says it runs and the saddle and tail stock move well. He’s sending me pictures tomorrow of “a lot of stuff and tools” in the drawers. Lots of dirt and surface rust, and I have no idea what the liquid is all over it in the pictures. Possibly oil, possibly water, who knows. Overall, looks like it could be garbage or could be perfect hiding under a thin layer of surface rust. I’d love some expert eyes to let me know what you think and what I should look for when I go check it out. I’ve read the “Advice on buying a lathe” article, and of course watched too many Tubalcain videos (wife won’t let me watch anymore with her around). Please let me know what you think. Asking $450, so I’m pretty interested. Thanks for your time and help.


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## pjf134 (Jan 27, 2021)

It looks like a good deal for $450. make sure the ways are in good shape and everything moves. When I got mine for $750 nothing moved because of rust and dried up oil, but the lathe had very little wear and needed rebuilt. I did take mine apart all the way and did a good cleaning and took about 4 weeks working on it a few hours here and there. The gear box was the worst part since all gears were stuck and the taper pins in the shaft were facing the wrong way to remove. The gears were like new and dried up oil was the cause of sticking.
Paul


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

pjf134 said:


> It looks like a good deal for $450. make sure the ways are in good shape and everything moves. When I got mine for $750 nothing moved because of rust and dried up oil, but the lathe had very little wear and needed rebuilt. I did take mine apart all the way and did a good cleaning and took about 4 weeks working on it a few hours here and there. The gear box was the worst part since all gears were stuck and the taper pins in the shaft were facing the wrong way to remove. The gears were like new and dried up oil was the cause of sticking.
> Paul


Thanks for the reply. Nice looking work on that gearbox.


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## pjf134 (Jan 27, 2021)

Ask for tooling and check for wear everywhere. If you get it you should do a teardown and clean good. Kits can be had for the felts and a book to install. I did not know about that info when I did mine. I used a link belt on mine and it works real good and easy to install compared to a leather belt.
Paul


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## Aaron_W (Jan 27, 2021)

Other members here suggest Texas is a tough place to find machine tools. 

$450 seems a very decent price if you don't find any major issues. I'm hoping that liquid is oil. I've been pleasantly surprised several times to find that what looked like rust was simply old dried up oil that came right off with some simple green.


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## Manual Mac (Jan 27, 2021)

Has it been in a fire?


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

Manual Mac said:


> Has it been in a fire?


Assume you are asking due to the unfortunate condition of the name plate? It’s a good question. Any way to tell or things to check?


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> Other members here suggest Texas is a tough place to find machine tools.
> 
> $450 seems a very decent price if you don't find any major issues. I'm hoping that liquid is oil. I've been pleasantly surprised several times to find that what looked like rust was simply old dried up oil that came right off with some simple green.


Thanks. Fingers crossed for sure.


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

pjf134 said:


> Ask for tooling and check for wear everywhere. If you get it you should do a teardown and clean good. Kits can be had for the felts and a book to install. I did not know about that info when I did mine. I used a link belt on mine and it works real good and easy to install compared to a leather belt.
> Paul


Thanks. I’ve seen the link belts and hear good things.


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## Jim F (Jan 27, 2021)

As long as the ways are good, it is a really good deal.
Looks like the 4' version, also.


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

Jim F said:


> As long as the ways are good, it is a really good deal.
> Looks like the 4' version, also.


Thanks, and yes, marked 4 1/2 and it certainly looks long! I don’t NEED one that long but figured better too long than too short.


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## sdelivery (Jan 27, 2021)

Even though it's not pretty, it looks complete. That looks like a GREAT buy for 450.00
Cant have enough bed length! lol


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## brino (Jan 27, 2021)

Honestly, for that price it would be hard to go wrong.

Worst case (and I hate to even say it) would be if the ways are very terribly worn.....but then you my still make that money back by parting out (chucks, faceplate, gears, steady-rests, etc.)

My (SB 9-inch) ways do have a slight ridge near the top of the inverted V, and the carriage is a little looser near the headstock end, but I'm still able to do everything I want to the required precision.

From here it looks like he over-oiled it before taking those pictures.

Best of luck!
-brino


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## Manual Mac (Jan 27, 2021)

I spent 14 years in an all volunteer fire department.
Looking at the photos, first thing I thought was it kinda looks like machinery that’s been in a garage fire, then had a good soaking.
You’ll know by looking at it.
If i’m wrong (and I probably am) buy it quick!


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

Manual Mac said:


> I spent 14 years in an all volunteer fire department.
> Looking at the photos, first thing I thought was it kinda looks like machinery that’s been in a garage fire, then had a good soaking.
> You’ll know by looking at it.
> If i’m wrong (and I probably am) buy it quick!


You’re giving me a lot of credit to think I’d know if it’d been in a fire. What should I be looking for as a problem? Is it just about rust, or do you think the wicks and other elements would have actual fire damage? Warped due to heat? I assume is the switch, belt, etc, is original, it’s likely not to have been torched? Thanks for the help.


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

brino said:


> Honestly, for that price it would be hard to go wrong.
> 
> Worst case (and I hate to even say it) would be if the ways are very terribly worn.....but then you my still make that money back by parting out (chucks, faceplate, gears, steady-rests, etc.)
> 
> ...


Yeah, I’m with you. Hate to think about parting it out. I want to turn some stuff. I likely won’t buy it if it’s just to part it out. Less interested in making my money back and dealing with that hassle than getting a decent machine. BUT if it ends up being a lemon after I get it home, there is definitely some solace in that advice. Thanks.


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

sdelivery said:


> Even though it's not pretty, it looks complete. That looks like a GREAT buy for 450.00
> Cant have enough bed length! lol


Thanks, that’s what I hear! Hope it does end up being complete and usable.


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## neilkingent (Jan 27, 2021)

Buy it! NOW

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Manual Mac (Jan 27, 2021)

Sorry to put fire dought in your mind. Honestly you will know by looking at it.
I’m with Brino here, my ways are a bit worn, carriage moves easier toward the headstock, it is well worn. But it still makes very accurate parts. 
About the only things that wear out on these old 9” lathes are the half-nuts & the cross slide nut. I just got both these parts from Jayhawkmachinetool. Well made & very reasonable.
Shoot this lathe even has a thread dial, looks like an Atlas, these work fine.
Like others have said drop everything & go buy it.


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

Manual Mac said:


> Sorry to put fire dought in your mind. Honestly you will know by looking at it.
> I’m with Brino here, my ways are a bit worn, carriage moves easier toward the headstock, it is well worn. But it still makes very accurate parts.
> About the only things that wear out on these old 9” lathes are the half-nuts & the cross slide nut. I just got both these parts from Jayhawkmachinetool. Well made & very reasonable.
> Shoot this lathe even has a thread dial, looks like an Atlas, these work fine.
> Like others have said drop everything & go buy it.


I was actually looking at the thread dial and it looks like it’s missing something but that’s not major. Wish I could drop everything. Counting on this dude to keep his word and wait until Saturday. That’s the risk but not worth losing a job to get a lathe. At least, I think that’s the right priorities...

Thanks for the feedback.


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

neilkingent said:


> Buy it! NOW
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Ok, Ok. I get it. Buy the lathe! LOL


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## brino (Jan 27, 2021)

FriscoMustang said:


> not worth losing a job to get a lathe. At least, I think that’s the right priorities...



I agree, but some days it's harder to tell.

......but if it was a mint condition Monarch for that price, I'd have to reconsider!

-brino


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

Update. Called owner and he almost sold it. We came to an understanding but gave me a scare. He did send me a pic of the tooling that will come with it. Steady rest, couple of live and dead centers, looks like a fair amount of cutters, and another 3 jaw. No 4 jaw that I can see or QCTP. Anything you guys see that I should get excited about?


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## Jim F (Jan 27, 2021)

No jaws for the extra chuck, dog driver is a plus, extra lantern tool post, kinda a plus. tailstock wrench, plus.


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

And close up of the ways. May be too much crud to tell the tale.


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## Jim F (Jan 27, 2021)

Don't see anything to scare me away.


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

Jim F said:


> Don't see anything to scare me away.


Thanks, Jim. Me either. I told him I was definitely bringing it home with me. Said he’d had 20 calls since we talked yesterday.


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## Aaron_W (Jan 27, 2021)

Steady rest is a good thing, I see a lot of lathes sold without one. You can easily spend $150-200 to get one later, so there is 1/3-1/2 what you are paying right there.

It looks dirty and crusty but actually not bad, buy a bucket of your favorite grease cleaner and it will probably look pretty good when you get done with it. I would suggest telling the seller you will buy it at their price on Saturday barring obvious damage he didn't tell you about. At $450 I don't see you losing money even if it turns out to just be good for parts. I'm not seeing this as just a parts machine.


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> Steady rest is a good thing, I see a lot of lathes sold without one. You can easily spend $150-200 to get one later, so there is 1/3-1/2 what you are paying right there.
> 
> It looks dirty and crusty but actually not bad, buy a bucket of your favorite grease cleaner and it will probably look pretty good when you get done with it. I would suggest telling the seller you will buy it at their price on Saturday barring obvious damage he didn't tell you about. At $450 I don't see you losing money even if it turns out to just be good for parts. I'm not seeing this as just a parts machine.


That’s what I told him. I won’t be negotiating. I’m hoping not parts. Thanks, Aaron


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## Jim F (Jan 27, 2021)

Start doing some reading at Vintage machinery in the South Bend section.
Looks like it is a post '45 machine due to switch location.
You will be able to find a build year when you get the serial #.


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

Yessir. Been checking out vintage machinery as well. Any particular area? That forum/site is a little tricky to navigate for me. Likely just not spending enough time exploring. Thanks.


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## Jim F (Jan 27, 2021)

FriscoMustang said:


> Yessir. Been checking out vintage machinery as well. Any particular area? That forum/site is a little tricky to navigate for me. Likely just not spending enough time exploring. Thanks.


Manufactures index, then South Bend Lathe works, then publication reprints.
287 entries to browse through, not all of them apply tho the 9/10K family,though.



			South Bend Lathe Works - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org


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## Jim F (Jan 27, 2021)

Might as well order a AXA QCTP kit from Shars right now, you will need it.


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## Jim F (Jan 27, 2021)

where to find year of manufacture.



			South Bend Lathe Serial Numbers


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

Jim F said:


> Might as well order a AXA QCTP kit from Shars right now, you will need it.


Was looking at those. Prefer to order direct from Shars? Saw one on Amazon with good reviews. I know nothing and I prefer buy once, cry once within reason. But also don’t want to throw away money for no good reason. Thanks.


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## Jim F (Jan 27, 2021)

FriscoMustang said:


> Was looking at those. Prefer to order direct from Shars? Saw one on Amazon with good reviews. I know nothing and I prefer buy once, cry once within reason. But also don’t want to throw away money for no good reason. Thanks.


Get a wedge type, not the plunger type.
The imports are all about the same.
You will need to mill the T-nut to fit the compound.


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

Jim F said:


> No jaws for the extra chuck, dog driver is a plus, extra lantern tool post, kinda a plus. tailstock wrench, plus.


Any idea what that part is I circled in yellow? Thanks.


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## Jim F (Jan 27, 2021)

FriscoMustang said:


> Any idea what that part is I circled in yellow? Thanks.


Can't tell from that picture.


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## Manual Mac (Jan 27, 2021)

Those are better photos. 
Looks like just real filthy. that grime may have protected the finish, ought to clean up just fine. 
And a steady rest too! you will like that. Was using my steady rest this week to do some boring on a small steam engine.
Enjoy


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

Manual Mac said:


> Those are better photos.
> Looks like just real filthy. that grime may have protected the finish, ought to clean up just fine.
> And a steady rest too! you will like that. Was using my steady rest this week to do some boring on a small steam engine.
> Enjoy


Yes much better pictures. And I’ll be getting dirty this weekend for sure. Cleaning them up is like a treasure hunt for me. Lots to learn and always a surprise or 12. Paint is not my friend so no restoration but I do like working on a clean machine. Thanks!


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 27, 2021)

weird about the gear box plate, but I don't think you can go wrong for that price, especially around here! I was super pumped to get a '29 heavy 9 with no countershaft/ motor and alot more wear than that for $400


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 27, 2021)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> weird about the gear box plate, but I don't think you can go wrong for that price, especially around here! I was super pumped to get a '29 heavy 9 with no countershaft/ motor and alot more wear than that for $400


Yup, hoping for the beat and feeling lucky. I’m gonna ask about the plate and I’ll post if there’s a story there. Thanks.


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## Aaron_W (Jan 27, 2021)

FriscoMustang said:


> Was looking at those. Prefer to order direct from Shars? Saw one on Amazon with good reviews. I know nothing and I prefer buy once, cry once within reason. But also don’t want to throw away money for no good reason. Thanks.



I've been happy with the Little Machine Shop QCTPs, I've got an AXA and an OXA. You can find cheaper ones on Ebay, but LMS has good service if you have any issues. They are also made of steel, some of the cheaper QCTPs are aluminum, so not as rigid.

LMS AXA tool post set


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 28, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> I've been happy with the Little Machine Shop QCTPs, I've got an AXA and an OXA. You can find cheaper ones on Ebay, but LMS has good service if you have any issues. They are also made of steel, some of the cheaper QCTPs are aluminum, so not as rigid.
> 
> LMS AXA tool post set


Thanks. I’ll check out LMS.


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## finsruskw (Jan 28, 2021)

That's about what I paid for mine a year ago and it was in much better shape than this one appears to be.
I bought 5 gal cap. ultrasonic cleaner to aid in cleaning everything. A bigger size that would hold the complete QCGB, it really came in handy and worked well.
Good luck with it


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 28, 2021)

finsruskw said:


> That's about what I paid for mine a year ago and it was in much better shape than this one appears to be.
> I bought 5 gal cap. ultrasonic cleaner to aid in cleaning everything. A bigger size that would hold the complete QCGB, it really came in handy and worked well.
> Good luck with it


Sounds like you got a great deal. Pics of it now? Thanks.


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## finsruskw (Jan 28, 2021)

FriscoMustang said:


> Sounds like you got a great deal. Pics of it now? Thanks.


Here's one just prior to   getting it operable, (needed a switch yet)


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 28, 2021)

finsruskw said:


> Here's one just prior to   getting it operable, (needed a switch yet)


Looks great. Would love to have that cabinet. Seems like having the motor below makes it a lot more space efficient. Nice lathe.


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## martik777 (Jan 28, 2021)

You'll be lucky if he doesn't sell it before you get there, it's worth 2x the price, 3x if he spent a couple hours cleaning up.


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 28, 2021)

martik777 said:


> You'll be lucky if he doesn't sell it before you get there, it's worth 2x the price, 3x if he spent a couple hours cleaning





martik777 said:


> You'll be lucky if he doesn't sell it before you get there, it's worth 2x the price, 3x if he spent a couple hours cleaning up.


We’re messaging back and forth and he’s acting like a pretty stand up guy. I’ll be there at 9 AM Saturday so here’s hoping. Thanks.


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## martik777 (Jan 28, 2021)

Sounds promising, I hope it works out for you


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 30, 2021)

Update. I got it! I think it’s ok overall. And in the back of one of those drawers there was...a four jaw Chuck! It’s not ready to run at this point but I’m cleaning it and need to get it mounted, belt, etc. I’ll be starting another thread possibly on that process. Thanks for the advice.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 30, 2021)

woohoo, congratulations!


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## finsruskw (Jan 30, 2021)

Aye, Let the fun begin!!
Good deal, glad you scored it!


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## martik777 (Jan 30, 2021)

Congrats, he was a man of his word. You got a great deal!

Loads of info here:

South Bend Lathe Parts Lists (wswells.com)

Don't forget the screw on the apron's star clutch wheel is left handed


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## MyLilMule (Jan 30, 2021)

There are quite a few YooToob series out there of folks tearing down and rebuilding SB lathes. I highly, highly suggest the kit and book from ILION that can be found on eBay. I'm rebuilding a 13" at the moment myself.


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## brino (Jan 30, 2021)

Fantastic. Congratulations!
You own a lathe.

I see lots of dirty hands and chips of metal in your future.

-brino


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 30, 2021)

brino said:


> Fantastic. Congratulations!
> You own a lathe.
> 
> I see lots of dirty hands and chips of metal in your future.
> ...


Hope so. Right now I’m dealing with a stuck cross slide and chuck. It’s really not bad overall but I won’t be cutting any chips for a while longer.


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 30, 2021)

MyLilMule said:


> There are quite a few YooToob series out there of folks tearing down and rebuilding SB lathes. I highly, highly suggest the kit and book from ILION that can be found on eBay. I'm rebuilding a 13" at the moment myself.


Been watching quite a few. I’ll check out the kit and book. Thanks.


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## FriscoMustang (Jan 30, 2021)

martik777 said:


> Congrats, he was a man of his word. You got a great deal!
> 
> Loads of info here:
> 
> ...


Indeed. He wasn’t happy about it. Pretty sure he was hoping I wouldn’t show up so he could repost in good conscience. I tossed in an extra hundred for holding it and the 4 jaw surprise. He brightened up a bit then. Seemed the right thing to do.


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## martik777 (Jan 31, 2021)

FriscoMustang said:


> Update. I got it! I think it’s ok overall. And in the back of one of those drawers there was...a four jaw Chuck! It’s not ready to run at this point but I’m cleaning it and need to get it mounted, belt, etc. I’ll be starting another thread possibly on that process. Thanks for the advice.


What happened to the cross feed crank handle?  
A serpentine belt works well on those flat pulleys, a 445K6 +/- an inch should fit


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## Manual Mac (Jan 31, 2021)

You did the right thing giving him an xtra C-note.
Good to see 2 people with a conscience now days.
Now.... down the rabbit hole. 
Enjoy


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