# few questions



## bluedxj (Dec 30, 2012)

ive decided to start just one thread and add all the question im gona have as i dive into my new lathe. its a 101 model 12"x36". 
first question is how do i remove the chuck? i dont have a dial indicator yet but when i cut something i can tell its got runout.
second what is this knob? im pretty sure its broken because the ones ive seen on ebay have a gear attached. but you can just freely pull it out of the bed.


i got a box full of tooling and was wonder what this is?


and last is there any kind of free owners manual i can download online? i mostly wana know how to lube everything. thanks.


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## Chucketn (Dec 30, 2012)

I have no idea what the first item is but the secon is a drive dog. It clamps on the workpiece with the bent part pointed toward the headstock. It's uded when turning between centers to drive the workpiece from a dog plate or faceplate.

Chuck


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## Jeff in Pa (Dec 30, 2012)

1)  The chuck is screwed on the spindle.  It's a right hand thread.  Do have steel back gears or zamak? ( makes a difference on the method to remove the chuck)

2) Looks like a feed knob. It the gear still in the carriage?

3) Driving dog. Used to hold round items between centers and the ear of the dog fit in a slot on the face plate.


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## GaryK (Dec 30, 2012)

The top picture looks like the knob to engage the cross feed.

The other is a dog that clamps your bar stock when turning between centers. It's used with a drive or face plate.


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## bluedxj (Dec 30, 2012)

ok thanks.


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## bluedxj (Dec 30, 2012)

Jeff in Pa said:


> 1) The chuck is screwed on the spindle. It's a right hand thread. Do have steel back gears or zamak? ( makes a difference on the method to remove the chuck)
> 
> 2) Looks like a feed knob. It the gear still in the carriage?
> 
> 3) Driving dog. Used to hold round items between centers and the ear of the dog fit in a slot on the face plate.



im not sure if the gears are steel or zamak how do i tell? 
also not sure if the gear is in the carrage dont really know what to look for. ill go investigate. so that knob should provide power to the cross feed?


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## Jeff in Pa (Dec 30, 2012)

bluedxj said:


> im not sure if the gears are steel or zamak how do i tell?
> also not sure if the gear is in the carrage dont really know what to look for. ill go investigate. so that knob should provide power to the cross feed?



 Can you take a picture of the gears?  If they look cast, they're probably zamak. If they're solid, most likely steel.

 How the cross feed works....The lead screws turns and drives a gear in the carriage. ( the gear has a single spline/key that is driven by the slot in the lead screw). When you pull that knob, it locks out the carriage feed and drives the cross feed.

Here's some pictures of my friend Dave's 12" Atlas showing the underside with the gear and a a parts diagram.


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## bluedxj (Dec 30, 2012)

ya ill got snap some pics of the gears. i cant really see behind the carriage. how should i go about removing the carriage? id like to get in there and clean it all real good anywase.


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## Jeff in Pa (Dec 30, 2012)

bluedxj said:


> ya ill got snap some pics of the gears. i cant really see behind the carriage. how should i go about removing the carriage? id like to get in there and clean it all real good anywase.



 I haven't taken a carriage off yet.  Dave's crossfeed gear is stripped and we haven't disassembled it yet.  I stuck my camera under the carriage for the picture.  You can hold a mirror and light under it to see up there  too.


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## bluedxj (Dec 30, 2012)

couple pics the lathe is pretty grimey plans are to go through the whole thing and clean it up hopefully with all your guys help and experiance.


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## Jeff in Pa (Dec 30, 2012)

Those gears look like they're cast so I'm thinking zamak.


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## bluedxj (Dec 30, 2012)

ok so how do i go about removing the chuck with those type of gears?


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## Jeff in Pa (Dec 30, 2012)

Your Atlas is different from mine.  On mine, I would squeeze the belt and hit a jaw with a deadblow hammer ( soft face) , turning it in a CCW rotation.   On South Bend's I ran, we would put it in back gear to remove the screwed on chuck.  But I don't know if it would damage your gears or not.  I would hate to suggest that to you and have something happen.

 We need somebody with a similar lathe to let us know if it's safe to do that.


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## pdentrem (Dec 30, 2012)

All the gears on Atlas lathes of this vintage are Zamac originally.

To remove the chuck, you can put a piece of wood the sticks out towards you, pinch the belt to stop the spindle from turning and hit the wood down to unscrew the chuck. The threads are 1-1/2" X 8 right hand, so CCW is correct to remove the chuck.

In one of your pictures showing the bull gear, the large gear that engages the back gear assy is lacking lube.

Do not pretend to be Thor when swinging the hammer. Place a piece of wood underneath the chuck so that you do not ding the ways.


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## pdentrem (Dec 30, 2012)

All lube points are 20 wt non detergent oil. The gears some people use the same and others use what is called "climbing gear lube" it is super stick. Problem is the grease type lube will grab bad hold scarf and dirt while oils are less likely to do so. Grease is quieter.
Pierre


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## pdentrem (Dec 30, 2012)

To remove the carriage you have to remove the two bolts that hold the apron on the saddle, remove lead screw, remove the two flat gibs that are bolted from the underside, one behind the apron, the other on the back side. There is also a gib that pushes against the back of the ways as well. Watch for shims, you need them to reset everything back up.


Manual is available new direct from Clausings, 20 bucks, it is copyrighted so no online versions. Spare parts also available there and from Sears but sears gets them from Clausings and doubles the sell price.


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## pdentrem (Dec 30, 2012)

I suggest that you join up to the Atlas/Craftsman users group. Lots of files, diagrams etc there as well.

Many of the members there also belong here as well.)


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## bluedxj (Dec 30, 2012)

ok thanks ill give that a try to get the chuck off. one other thing i noticed that makes some noise when i run the machine is the gears on the side some of them have play in them is that ok? but if i dissengage the those side gears it runs alot quiter. also when i try and engage the back gear it just pops out i dont know if theres a lock or something?


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## pdentrem (Dec 30, 2012)

Basically the gear noise is normal, the question is how much noise is the normal. You need some clearance between each gear. You use a piece of paper to set the clearance.

Here is a site that has the service bulletins for Atlas stuff. Copy them and print them off for future reference. These tend to move around on the web as site owners come and go.


http://scottandersonpipes.com/atlas_press/servicebulletins.htm


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## kd4gij (Dec 30, 2012)

I have the same lathe here is the parts list for it.


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## bluedxj (Dec 30, 2012)

pdentrem said:


> Basically the gear noise is normal, the question is how much noise is the normal. You need some clearance between each gear. You use a piece of paper to set the clearance.
> 
> Here is a site that has the service bulletins for Atlas stuff. Copy them and print them off for future reference. These tend to move around on the web as site owners come and go.
> 
> ...



ya i figured there should be clearences but on a few gears you can wobble them or pull them in and out like as if the nut holding them on was loose. mainly on the top two small gears that select foreward or reverse feed. hope that made sence.


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## bluedxj (Dec 30, 2012)

ya im excited to get it running better ive been wanting a lathe forever. the more i tear into it the more im learning about the machine. i got the skirt off and discovered there is indeed a missing gear for the power cross feed. hopefully i can find a replacement. couple pics.
missing gear


what the missing gear drives when engaged


its also missing a little ball bearing to lock the pull knob in or out. pretty sure i can find something at work that will work.


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## pdentrem (Dec 30, 2012)

You should be able to find that gear either new at Clausings or on the auction sites. 

There will be a spring and ball for the crossfeed knob detent positions. I made up a lever conversion for the lathe, that way you do not have to worry about touching the spinning knob.

The gears in the apron look good. Note that the support for the miter gear that the lead screw goes through has a groove to carry the oil from the hole in the apron to the bushing in the support. If you can you could make a piece of copper pipe 1/8" OD to more positive that the oil is actually getting there.


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## bluedxj (Dec 30, 2012)

got any pics of how you did the lever conversion? edit nevermind i found your thread.


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## pdentrem (Dec 30, 2012)

bluedxj said:


> got any pics of how you did the lever conversion?



Yes I just added them to this section of the forum.
Pierre


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## wa5cab (Dec 30, 2012)

The parts manual on the 101.07403, 101.27430 and 101.27440 is also in the Download section (under Atlas) of this site.  I'm gradually adding manuals to this site on the theory that there's safety in redundancy.

Also, for removing my chucks and front mounted collet closers I always lock the back gears by engaging them without pulling the pin.  But on a bench machine with a chuck that hasn't been removed in eons, I would definitely use the belt squeeze and board method given down thread.

Robert D.


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## pdentrem (Dec 31, 2012)

I too was leery on suggesting to use the back gear to hold the spindle that reason, non known age for last removal of the chuck. Better safe than spend a bunch for new gears!
Pierre


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## bluedxj (Dec 31, 2012)

i got the chuck off by holding the belt and smacking it a few times with a hammer and block of wood worked good.


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## pdentrem (Dec 31, 2012)

Excellent!


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## Jeff in Pa (Dec 31, 2012)

bluedxj said:


> i got the chuck off by holding the belt and smacking it a few times with a hammer and block of wood worked good.



 That's great to hear.


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## bluedxj (Dec 31, 2012)

ya thanks for the help guys. i checked the runout on the chuck spindle and it was around .0005 so i would say thats pretty good for an old lathe. and that means the 3 jaw chuck is messed up is there anyway to fix the runout on it or not worth it and just get a new one? also whats the thread size for when i go to get a differnt chuck? and what size chuck would you guys recomend for this 12" lathe?


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## Jeff in Pa (Dec 31, 2012)

bluedxj said:


> ya thanks for the help guys. i checked the runout on the chuck spindle and it was around .0005 so i would say thats pretty good for an old lathe. and that means the 3 jaw chuck is messed up is there anyway to fix the runout on it or not worth it and just get a new one? also whats the thread size for when i go to get a differnt chuck? and what size chuck would you guys recomend for this 12" lathe?



 Before you decide to purchase a new chuck, disassemble and clean that one.  

We'll start easy first.  Look to see if the jaws are numbered and the slots are numbered ( they should match ).  If not marked, mark them.  Turn them out  and clean both the jaws themselves and the scroll.  Reassemble starting with number 1, then 2 and finally 3.  Make sure you don't miss a tooth or they won't center correctly.

 If that improves runout, great.  If not, take them back out and unbolt the backing plate from the chuck.  Mark where it goes together so you can reassemble it in the same location.


 I see "XJ" is part of your username.  My wife drives our '01 XJ with a 2" lift and 30/9.50-15's




  Jeff


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## bluedxj (Dec 31, 2012)

ok ill give that a try. and ya i drive an xj too mines lifted on 32's. there great and cheap to work on too.


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## bluedxj (Jan 1, 2013)

what kind or grease/oil gun do you use to get those little grease fittings on the apron?


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## Jeff in Pa (Jan 1, 2013)

bluedxj said:


> what kind or grease/oil gun do you use to get those little grease fittings on the apron?



 Little caps with spring loaded lids?   My 1932 vintage Atlas uses 10W oil.


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## bluedxj (Jan 1, 2013)

no the ones on the apron they look kinda like tiny zerk fittings.


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## wa5cab (Jan 1, 2013)

bluedxj,

The spring-loaded ball type oilers come in various sizes.  But in general, you use a pump equipped oil can with a special tip.  Instead of the tip being smoothly tapered from where it attaches to the spout to the end, near the end it gets larger again.  Such that from a distance the tip looks like it has a small flat washer on it.  Except the the washer is conical, at least on the delivery side.  The cone is just steep enough that it both depresses the ball and seals the opening.  However, the seal is not too effective and typically some of the oil runs down the front of the saddle.  This tip is also handy for opening the oilers with the spingloaded cap. 

I have been thinking that maybe dipping the tip in some of that stuff they used to sell for coating tool handles, letting it cure, and then cleaning out the hole might give a better seal.  

Robert D.


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## outsider347 (Jan 1, 2013)

pendentrem:

where are the lever conversion pics
tks


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## Jeff in Pa (Jan 1, 2013)

outsider347 said:


> pendentrem:
> 
> where are the lever conversion pics
> tks


 
It was just a few threads down but here is his post
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...on-to-Lever-Conversion-for-10-F-series-lathes


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## pdentrem (Jan 1, 2013)

Thanks Jeff for pointing the topic for the others.

I was a tad bit busy today, my 84 yr old mother fell twice today. Dad and I are concerned. Parkinson's is eating her brain. Been a bad week.
Pierre


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## BluCab (Jan 10, 2013)

bluedxj said:


> couple pics the lathe is pretty grimey plans are to go through the whole thing and clean it up hopefully with all your guys help and experiance.


Your Lathe looks a lot like mine. I have 1946 Craftsman 101.07403 lathe. If yours is like mine, the model number is on the back of the ways, in the center. There is a nameplate there. There is also a serial number stamped in the top of front way, at the far right.



This how it looked when I found it on Craigslist.



And after some cleanup and paint.

I used some kerosene in a 5 gallon bucket to clear the crud off. 

Then to further clean the rust off, I bought a 5 gallon bucket of evap-o-rust from Northern Tool. That stuff is amazing. Drop the part in, leave it overnight, wipe it off the next day. Or week, or month. It does not hurt to leave it too long.

The Apron Before/After/Painted:





Hope that helps. If your lathe is the same and you have questions, ask. I may have hit the same problem.


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## BluCab (Jan 11, 2013)

There was a question on where I found the date and serial number. This is what I found as I was cleaning up the lathe.


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## bluedxj (Jan 11, 2013)

yup looks exactly like mine. i just got done cleaning the apron gears and stuff then i did the change gears but it sat apart longer then i wanted now im not 100% sure how the change gears are supposed to go. if someone could snap a pic of theres that would be great. mostly of the lower 3 gears the one attached to the drive screw. thanks.


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## BluCab (Jan 11, 2013)

bluedxj said:


> yup looks exactly like mine. i just got done cleaning the apron gears and stuff then i did the change gears but it sat apart longer then i wanted now im not 100% sure how the change gears are supposed to go. if someone could snap a pic of theres that would be great. mostly of the lower 3 gears the one attached to the drive screw. thanks.


If I understand correctly, those gears change depending on the number of threads per inch you want to cut.

There should be a chart inside the change gear cover. This is mine:


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## wa5cab (Jan 12, 2013)

Also, the threading chart for all standard change gear 12" machines from 101.07360 to end of production is on page 135 of the later Manual of Lathe Operation editions (I don't have an early edition so can't quote page numbers).  The following pages give more detailed information on setting up for various feeds and threads, including metric.  The 6" section begins on page 155.  I presume that for the 10", you would have to go to a pre-1958 edition.

Robert D.


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## Sundossa12 (Jan 12, 2013)

Nice work so far!!


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## bluedxj (Jan 12, 2013)

ya i got that little label buts its so small its kinda hard to see. but i dont have a manual. ill just try and google image it.


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## bluedxj (Jan 12, 2013)

also how tight to you get that ring nut thing on the very top gear? im guessing it puts the tension on the bearings for the chuck.


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## BluCab (Jan 12, 2013)

bluedxj said:


> also how tight to you get that ring nut thing on the very top gear? im guessing it puts the tension on the bearings for the chuck.



You need to tighten it enough to remove all the play from the bearings, but still should still turn freely. If there is any roughness, you need to find out what is causing it. Better to err on the side of too loose.

I left mine pretty loose at first and thought that it was tight enough, but then I was measuring the runout and found that there was quite a bit. Had to go back and tighten it more eliminate the runout. 

Don't loose or forget the little lead ball under the set screw. I lost mine, so I replaced it with a hard sponge rubber ball I carved from some scrap. But you need it to prevent marring the threads.



Also, to prevent marring the ring with a wrench, screw a properly sized screw partway into the setscrew hole and use that screw length to tighten or remove the ring.


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## wa5cab (Jan 12, 2013)

The short (official) answer is to tighten the spindle collar finger tight while turning the spindle to seat the rollers.  Spindle should turn with little drag (assuming that you aren't turning the gear train and the motor, too).  Then tighten the collar 2 teeth of the adjacent gear.  

For instructions on disassembly and assembly of the headstock (10F and early model Timken bearing 12"), go to the Atlas Downloads folder and download the file Atlas Bulletin 10F Early 12T Headstock.

Robert D.


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## pdentrem (Jan 12, 2013)

One thing that should said is to NOT adjust the load on the bearings when the machine is cold. As the machine warms up the bearings will be too loose, but again you really have to be careful if setting up the bearings when hot. They will too tight at startup. You want to adjust them after running the lathe for 20 minutes or so, not cold, not hot, just warm. After that you will have to run the lathe more to see how things go when it gets fully warmed up. You may have to back off a bit, if the bearings are too hot, or the opposite if the spindle gets too loose.
Check for runout and readjust to reduce to minimum without over heating the bearings.

Pierre


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## wa5cab (Jan 12, 2013)

You can do it that way but if you do, you should only tighten the collar to a snug zero clearance when warm.  And disregard the instruction to tighten 1/16th of a turn or 2 teeth on the gear.  Reading between the lines, someone at Atlas 70+ years ago must have spent some time determining average spindle and bearing warmup during operation and calculated that the collar rotation to compensate was equal to about two teeth on the 32T spindle gear.  Because in the factory instructions, it only tells you that after pre-loading cold, the spindle will lengthen about 0.002" when warmed up.

Also, there is a typo in the Bulletin.  Instead of '1/16th turn' it says '1/16" turn'.

Robert D.


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## bluedxj (Jan 12, 2013)

thanks for the info. now i need to get another chuck for it what size are the threads for the chuck?


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## wa5cab (Jan 12, 2013)

Spindle nose threads on a 12" are 1-1/2"-8.

Robert D.


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## Jeff in Pa (Jan 12, 2013)

wa5cab said:


> Spindle nose threads on a 12" are 1-1/2"-8.
> 
> Robert D.



 Same thread size on my 1932 vintage 9" x 18" 

 Jeff


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