# I'm So Glad I Live Here



## MrWhoopee (Nov 22, 2019)

I just read a 4 page thread over on PM that progressed from a request for help to a pissing match then turned into a knife fight. I left before the police and ambulances arrived.

I just want to say how thankful I am for all of you kind, considerate, civil and helpful folks.


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## NCjeeper (Nov 22, 2019)

I agree. Much better over here. I still visit over there from time to time, but don't post much because of the negativity and lack of friendliness. You ask a simple question and get blasted for it.


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## Aaron_W (Nov 22, 2019)

I read a lot of posts there that turn up in searches, and there is a lot of good info in between the BS. Some of my machines are banned from discussion there so I have never felt the need to sign up.


The welcoming attitude here towards hobby novices, played a huge part in furthering my interest. Without this site, I probably would have ended up putting all of my energy into learning how to 3D print and skipped the machining bit entirely.


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## Jubil (Nov 22, 2019)

Yep, me too. 
Here I ask a question and get an answer, in language that I can understand. 
Oh, by the way, thanks to everyone. 

Chuck


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## benmychree (Nov 22, 2019)

Civility reigns!  I may occasionally have some negative feelings about what I read here, but I think better of it and do not make negative posts, and I do not go to PM -----


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## Bob Korves (Nov 22, 2019)

If I am doing a search to enlighten myself to something new, I will go other places to look, AFTER I look here on H-M.  I do not post on other machining forum sites at all.  This is a really happy place compared to the other sites, and that makes it fun!


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## Boswell (Nov 22, 2019)

+1 +1 +1


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## brino (Nov 22, 2019)

MrWhoopee said:


> I just want to say how thankful I am for all of you kind, considerate, civil and helpful folks.



....and you also resemble that remark!
-brino


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## mmcmdl (Nov 22, 2019)

I got out of that place many moons ago , the place has more BS than a Christmas turkey !  So I just visited their site and found a couple positions listed in Md . I investigated both of these places years back and neither paid a livable wage . Flowserve and ATI won't find ANY true machinist that will work for peanuts . I have to admit though , that place IS entertaining , but I have other sources for that .


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## Winegrower (Nov 22, 2019)

I am impressed with the depth of experience and knowledge here.   “Hobby” does not mean “unskilled” and “professional” is not the same as “craftsman”.


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## MrWhoopee (Nov 22, 2019)

Winegrower said:


> I am impressed with the depth of experience and knowledge here.   “Hobby” does not mean “unskilled” and “professional” is not the same as “craftsman”.



I frequently explain to people that "professional" merely means that you make your living doing something. It does not mean that you are good at it. That's why a streetwalker is called a "pro".


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## Suzuki4evr (Nov 23, 2019)

I am glad that I found this site first when I first was looking for info. And found good, friendly,helpful  and informative people. And that is why I joined. Thanks to all the H-M people, U ROCK


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## higgite (Nov 23, 2019)

If I remember right (which is becoming more of a rarity), an online friend pointed me in this direction a few years ago and I am grateful to him for that. You guys have welcomed me, informed me, humored me and generally made this place the friendly machinist forum that eased the intimidation factor for a newby.

I look in on “that other forum” <coughPMcough> when it pops up on a Google search, but otherwise avoid it, and I tried a new offshoot of this forum when H-M got a little whacko a couple of years ago, but quickly got tired of that one. The fine folks who run H-M got it back on track to be what it was meant to be… friendly. So, here I am. Thanks to you all… and to all, a good night. Oh, wait, wrong holiday. Happy Soon to Be Thanksgiving!

Tom


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## projectnut (Nov 23, 2019)

I would agree with those who say there is a lot of good information on PM, but there are also some members large ego's.  If you don't have a professional background you're already starting in negative territory.   Another thing to be sure to do before posting is read the rules.  They will only allow the discussion of "professional grade" machines on many of the forums.   The definition of "professional" is somewhat subjective in that each moderator gets to decide what is and isn't "professional".  

When I first started there they didn't want to allow any discussions on Seneca Fall machines.  They were deemed as "only fit for hobbyists".  I had to attach a few sales brochures from Seneca Falls that mentioned they were "of the highest professional standards" and were marketed to the "professional level" shops.  I also included a bit of history about my specific machine.  Mine had spent over 50 years in a prototype shop, and was operated it's entire life by my wife's grandfather.  When he retired it was given to him as a present.  Over 100 years later it's still in the family and still making quality parts on a daily basis.  After a brief spirited discussion there have been a number of posts allowed in the "Antique Machinery" forum.

There are/were also a number of types of machinery banned.  Power hacksaws is an example.  At first I was flamed for asking for information about a Racine power hacksaw.  I was told that no self respecting professional would use these machines.  I had to respectfully offer that the particular machine I was referring to had spent it's entire life (55 years) in the "professional shop" where I worked, and had been purchased new by the company along with more than a dozen other of the same brand.  After the dust settled the machines were allowed to be discussed.  They still do however ban the discussion of models sold by Sears, Penney's, Wards, and others sold on the consumer market.

I must say most of the discussions there are more related to professional situations, and production level output.  The majority of the members there are shop owners, or professionals that have been in the business many years.  The discussions center around high end machinery, high end tooling, and the most up to date production methods.  Many of the things discussed here would not be considered as valid there.  It's geared toward the professional, and the moderators feel to continue to appeal to that audience they need to limit discussions on hobby grade machines, and methodology.


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## dpb (Nov 23, 2019)

This site has been great, full information and helpfulness.  Regarding other sites, it is completely reasonable to have a forum dedicated to modern production level tools and techniques.  It is not reasonable, or helpful, to abuse people.  Ever.


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## matthewsx (Nov 23, 2019)

I too started out on that other forum and quickly found myself relegated to the "antique" section. I've been involved in online discussion groups since the days of 1200 baud modems and BBS so I'm very familiar with the dynamic going on over there. Yes, it's true that if I were running a production shop I might not want to be bothered with answering questions from somebody wanting advice on their 100-year-old Seneca Falls lathe. However, there is an easy way to avoid this, just don't click on the thread....

Because of changes in my personal life (and my professional exposure to current online business models) I decided to stop participating in discussions on a big social network site last year. With hobby-machinist.com I've been able to reconnect with what I enjoyed about the Internet back when most of those people were in diapers, exchanging information with others who share in my hobby.

A big thank you to the owners of this site, the moderators, and all the participants who keep this place "The Friendly Machinist Forum"


Cheers,

1ohn


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## C-Bag (Nov 23, 2019)

The difference in basic attitude here is nothing short of astounding. I didn't care how long you've been doing something I don't see how that makes it ok to be a jerk. Most times that comes off sounding like they aren't all that happy with what they do and can vent their frustration on others. For the longest time all that came up on searches was PM and I got early on that was not some place I'd be able to participate. The one time I did it reminded me of trying to interject during a drunken screaming match to help settle the argument. Both parties ended up silent, probably glaring at me. Luckily it was the net and I could only hear the crickets. 

It's too bad civility has for the most part become equated with the hated "political correctness". I'm glad and thankful civility still rules here.


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## Reddinr (Nov 23, 2019)

Ditto to many of the above sentiments.  I too have been online since the early days.  Upgrading to 1200 baud from 300 baud, wow what a day that was!  Whoo-hoo!  The unnecessary meanness factor has been there for a long time.  I think the anonymous-ness contributes a good deal to the nastiness of some sites.  I also visit a well-known daily hacker site.  Boy, you only have to comment there once to get beaten up by the awaiting trolls and decide to never bother with the comments section again.  Very glad it is different here.   Well behaved and gracious contributors and the good and fair moderation works well here.

This forum has allowed me to progress from knowing almost nothing about what I'm doing to a point where I get cocky and think sometimes I'm competent at some things machining related.  Thanks for that!  I for one, couldn't have progressed as well without you all.


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## Tozguy (Nov 23, 2019)

I too would like to express my appreciation for the pleasant attitudes that prevail here.
It keeps me coming back. I am into machining for the sheer joy of it but I can understand that many others are on a different plane with a different focus. We can appreciate HM without bashing other sites. Live and let live.
Reminds me of the time I told my doctor that my arm was broken in three places........he replied 'then don't go in those places'.


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## MrWhoopee (Nov 23, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> It's too bad civility has for the most part become equated with the hated "political correctness". I'm glad and thankful civility still rules here.



Long before it was called "political correctness" it had another name. My parents taught it to me, it was called "common decency". The main difference being that they thought it only applied to people who were our "equals" or better. All others were fair game.


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## dulltool17 (Nov 23, 2019)

I haven't been to that other forum in ages.
My life is not the worse for that...

This place is so much better!


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## jschmidling (Nov 23, 2019)

MrWhoopee said:


> I just read a 4 page thread over on PM that progressed from a request for help to a pissing match then turned into a knife fight. I left before the police and ambulances arrived.
> 
> I just want to say how thankful I am for all of you kind, considerate, civil and helpful folks.



Am I the only one with no clue to whom or what "PM" is ?

Jack


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## silence dogood (Nov 23, 2019)

jschmidling said:


> Am I the only one with no clue to whom or what "PM" is ?
> 
> Jack


practical machinist.


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## C-Bag (Nov 23, 2019)

MrWhoopee said:


> Long before it was called "political correctness" it had another name. My parents taught it to me, it was called "common decency". The main difference being that they thought it only applied to people who were our "equals" or better. All others were fair game.


my impression is you've overcome that "learnin". But most of my social skills I think I got from my grandpa and I guess you could say it was somewhat similar to yours. He always respected others unless they didn't return it. If it was not retuned, watch out no matter how high and mighty. He was supremely patient with anybody who wanted to learn no matter how inexperienced they were. But if he even caught a whiff of laziness better beat feet!


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## mikey (Nov 23, 2019)

I agree with everyone that this is the best hobby machining site on the net. And it is all due to Nelson Timken and his insistence that we treat everyone with respect. He was also wise to disallow any mention of politics, personal attacks and forum bullying. Our mods have supported and maintained this philosophy, as have our members, so yes, this is a great forum but it is great because of Nelson's foresight and the truly awesome moderators we have today. To them, I give my thanks!


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## jschmidling (Nov 23, 2019)

silence dogood said:


> practical machinist.


Thanks.  Just visited the site and it seems to be dedicated to professional machinists or commercial entrepreneurs so it's not surprising they have an attitude toward beginners.

As in the subject line, I am glad I found this site first.

Jack


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## Superburban (Nov 24, 2019)

mikey said:


> I agree with everyone that this is the best hobby machining site on the net. And it is all due to Nelson Timken and his insistence that we treat everyone with respect. He was also wise to disallow any mention of politics, personal attacks and forum bullying. Our mods have supported and maintained this philosophy, as have our members, so yes, this is a great forum but it is great because of Nelson's foresight and the truly awesome moderators we have today. To them, I give my thanks!


I agree. Being a Mod on a pickup truck site, for the last ten years, I know what it takes to keep things going smoothly. I also know how fostering the Member helping Member atmosphere, gives everybody a home in the neighborhood. It starts from the top, but still takes everybody to make a great community.


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## nnam (Nov 24, 2019)

I used to join a truck forum and got burnt right away.  The moderator just insult me until I lose my cool and say back.  Then the moderator deleted his posts, then banned me, which I didn't care anyway.   I later joimed another truck forum that people are nice and help others.  A very beautiful place.

I then found this site.  I feel pretty much the same as said above.  So without repeating , thank you all with much respect for how you all treat each other over here.


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## Suzuki4evr (Nov 24, 2019)

jschmidling said:


> Am I the only one with no clue to whom or what "PM" is ?
> 
> Jack


You are not missing much, you will find everything you need right here. They say the grass is greener on the otherside because there is a lot more sh$#@


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## Suzuki4evr (Nov 24, 2019)

I think what separates this forum from others in my opinion is that when I read the posts, I can tell that we actually LIKE what we are doing and the machines and everything that goes with it. I do this not only for my bread and butter fom home because I have to after a big motorcycle accident, but because I love and enjoy it. And that is what I see in the posts of others as well. What got me hooked here was when I was building my toolpost grinder and found the great Mark Frazier build and that was it,I was done for......in a good way.


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## Superburban (Nov 24, 2019)

nnam said:


> I used to join a truck forum and got burnt right away.  The moderator just insult me until I lose my cool and say back.  Then the moderator deleted his posts, then banned me, which I didn't care anyway.   I later joimed another truck forum that people are nice and help others.  A very beautiful place.
> 
> I then found this site.  I feel pretty much the same as said above.  So without repeating , thank you all with much respect for how you all treat each other over here.


Sounds like the one who's name starts with a "P", Seems to them every question is a dumb one, and they get very rude. I have not visited for over 10 years, but get lots of reports like you mention. I guess the site exists for them to stroke their own egos.  I have run across several other sites that operate that way, I wonder if that is the way these people are in their lives. Why?


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## Aaron_W (Nov 24, 2019)

Superburban said:


> Sounds like the one who's name starts with a "P", Seems to them every question is a dumb one, and they get very rude. I have not visited for over 10 years, but get lots of reports like you mention. I guess the site exists for them to stroke their own egos.  I have run across several other sites that operate that way, I wonder if that is the way these people are in their lives. Why?



Arrrrrgh, 4x4? If so same reason I stopped going there. Lots of attitude, and not so much sharing of information.


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## NCjeeper (Nov 24, 2019)

^^^
Same here. Been about 10 years for me also. I only went there for axle swap and regearing info.


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## Janderso (Nov 25, 2019)

jschmidling said:


> Thanks.  Just visited the site and it seems to be dedicated to professional machinists or commercial entrepreneurs so it's not surprising they have an attitude toward beginners.
> 
> As in the subject line, I am glad I found this site first.
> 
> Jack


We all started from the beginning.
I have been guilty of sending a note to a beginner seeking information on PM, I mention he may be better served if he checks out HM.
I too have to thank our moderators, they run a tight ship yet seem to enjoy themselves.
I've had my hand slapped a couple times. It's easy to forget the rules and bring up a subject that may insight strong feelings in some people.
Yes, this a an awesome forum. I have met some good friends on this site.


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