# Yet Another Lathe Wiring Issue/ Question



## lowlife (Apr 4, 2015)

I have a Enterprise el2 lathe I am trying to wire up.
I have a Hitachi wj200 VFD
The enterprise has a 2 speed motor. I had to guess which wires were the high speed by tracing them from and to the high speed switching contacts so I think I am probably correct in my estimation of which wires are which. The motor will turn very slowly.

Hopefully enough background now to the issue. When I run the VFD it goes to 11 hz and stops. If I continue for about 30 secs or so it will pop a code. I cant remember the number off the top of my head but it was due to a user parameter set number

I went over my programming multiple times and can find no errors. Now D002 which monitors current goes to 16 which I assume if correct is way over what the VFD is designed for and the motor in high speed is rated for roughly 9 amps.

I believe I either have the wrong 3 wires picked for the high speed or I may have a defective motor. I have no knowledge of how to ohm a 3 phase motor to see if anything is shorted. The motor will turn over slowly however as I stated earlier.  Any other things I could have missed? Thanks JK

In addition I have no idea how many poles are on the motor I put 4 briefly tried 6 with no luck> It is not listed on the motor


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## lowlife (Apr 4, 2015)

Ok so 15 minutes later I went out and for grins flipped the switch. It works and draws 5 amps which seems a bit low for even the low speed amp draw listed on the motor. Does anyone have a wiring diagram. I'm lost w/o it? I might just go buy a 3hp 3ph single speed motor just for piece of mind.

I'm going to go out to the skid loader now, I k now what I'm doing there so I can increase my self esteem!!!!!!

Also I have no idea how to operate a lathe. What is the lever on the end of the keyed bar do? (the one that runs parallel to the lead screw) It is connected to 2 micro switches. Will I need to do anything with that as well once its up and running..............Now wheres that skid loader.............


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## lowlife (Apr 4, 2015)

Ok WTH? It runs when I put the programming into D002 and turn the switch on. It draws 5 or so amps. When I go back to monitoring Hz it goes to 11 and no further. Screw the skid loader this is going to require the backhoe!!!!! Maybe if I hit it hard enough it will cooperate!


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## Ulma Doctor (Apr 4, 2015)

if i read correctly the display is reading 11hz,
11hz is very low and may be overheating the temp sensor in the vfd.
most motors in north america are designed to run on 60hz when used conventionally without a vfd.
the vfd as the name implies, varies the frequency (Hz) of output. at 11 hz you are roughly 1/6 of normal op frequency.
that's ok for short periods of time, but the motor temperature will increase due to low air flow.
if you were to program for 60 hz and try again, your results may be quite different.


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## JimDawson (Apr 4, 2015)

I suspect that the high speed is wired as a 2 pole, and the low speed is wired as a 4 pole.  I'm not sure if this will help or not.


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## jim18655 (Apr 4, 2015)

Put it back the way it was and run the output of the VFD into the switch just like any 3 phase supply. Just don't try to change speeds while it's running.


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## lowlife (Apr 4, 2015)

Mr Dawson. So what you are saying is program 2 poles into the VFD

Jim18 I tried that originally maybe not correctly. I wired it directly to the main switch, turned it on, and put the 2 speed switch into the high position then took off both handles so they would stay in that position. There are 2 relays that need to be "pulled in" for forward and for reverse. I was concerned that would qualify as "The VFD doesnt like switches between it and the motor. I never tried it for that reason.

U Dr. Everything is set at 60 Hz near as I can tell. I have the same exact VFD for my mill. While it did give me fits I eventually figured it out with help. I spose I could have missed something. Not unusual for me. Will check again.


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## jim18655 (Apr 4, 2015)

I thought you just had a drum switch between the input and the motor. I guess you disconnected all the control relays and contactors between the  VFD and the motor? IS there a data plate on the motor?


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## JimDawson (Apr 4, 2015)

lowlife said:


> Mr Dawson. So what you are saying is program 2 poles into the VFD


Maybe that would help, but I'm not sure.  Do you have a wiring diagram on the motor?  It might be helpful.


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## lowlife (Apr 4, 2015)

No, trying to locate any information on an enterprise lathe is impossible. Not even nearly impossible. They still make parts for it in India, but when I contacted them they kept trying to sell me parts and had no apparent interest in a manual or they didnt have one, or there was a large communication issue. I will mess with it for a while but there comes a time when I will just get a different motor.


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## JimDawson (Apr 4, 2015)

Many times the diagram is inside the connection box.  If not, maybe the manufactures name on the motor data plate would lead to a diagram.


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## Brendan M (Apr 5, 2015)

lowlife said:


> Ok WTH? It runs when I put the programming into D002 and turn the switch on. It draws 5 or so amps. When I go back to monitoring Hz it goes to 11 and no further. Screw the skid loader this is going to require the backhoe!!!!! Maybe if I hit it hard enough it will cooperate!


Give me an earthmover or a bigger hammer any day.
Self esteem can be over rated sometimes. Good Luck


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## jim18655 (Apr 5, 2015)

Can you post a picture of the control box speed relays? Do you have choice between "constant torque" and "constant HP" in the drive settings?
This may also be helpful.


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## lowlife (Apr 5, 2015)

I will post some pics later. Thanks for everyones help. And everyone that is Judeo Christian a happy easter to you and yours. My daughter and Son in Law (really a son as we kinda raised him) are coming down to visit and cook. Today is a good day


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## lowlife (Apr 6, 2015)

The motor plate data is nearly impossible to read w/o pulling the motor. I was able to get some info from the data plate though. Google gave up nothing sadly. As far as wiring in the above diagram #4 is the closest to what I have. I have 3 stars in the nomenclature plate. Is there a way to use a multi meter to determine which of the 6 wires are the high speed? I cant remember the numbers and letters off the top of my head but it was like A1,2,3 and B 1,2,3 that went to the motor. Honestly I really think I have the 3 correct wires going to the high speed.

Yes I wired directly from the VFD to the motor wires I thought were the correct ones.


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## lowlife (Apr 6, 2015)

Also these were included with the lathe. The gentleman was in the process of converting the lathe to the Vari drive when he died. Maybe there was a reason for that?


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## jim18655 (Apr 6, 2015)

One thing I see right now is some of the terminals are rusted, corroded, burned. You may need to clean them up if you intend to use them.  I wonder if the motor is any good since you say he was converting it to the vari-drive. Did it run on the phase converter? Did it ever run for you before you added the VFD?
What's the  device in the lower right of the second picture? Looks like a fuse block?


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## JimDawson (Apr 6, 2015)

jim18655 said:


> What's the  device in the lower right of the second picture? Looks like a fuse block?




Yup, it's a fuse block.

That is one heck of a steady rest.


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## lowlife (Apr 7, 2015)

Information is fleeting. He was a machinist by trade and this was his home unit. He specialized as I understand it making large hydraulic cylinders. This makes sense since everything he included with the lathe requires 2 men and a strong boy to lift. He died and left it too another machinist who let it sit in a heated shop for almost 20 years and never used it. When I got it the Vari Drive was not completely hooked up. Only partially, thats what leads me to believe he died while hooking it up. He was as I understand it he was in his 80's when he passed so who knows how long it sat before even the 20 years. There is so much stuff included with it I'm overwhelmed. Including a real nice Thermac toolpost grinder. I was unsure of the motor when I bought it but figured I could sell the vari drive and/or the Phase a matic to offset the motor price.

I would like to just hook it up directly to the VFD and eliminate all the clutter and corrosion. I am leaning towards just getting a new 3hp 3ph motor. They are not too bad at Surplus center, then I would be done with it, and know what I am dealing with. There are some on Cl locally but a new offshore unit is like 225.00 plus shipping. Just not looking forward to replacing the monster

So what would the lever be on the end of the keyed lead be? The wires go from 2 micro switches to the FC and RC relays so I believe it may be for forward and reverse? If this is the case then the VFD would negate them as well. You can see it in the first pic> Its the black handed lever just above the "L" in Enterprise-L and a close u in the last pic IIRC

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/enterprise-el-2-help-needed.33523/#post-282750


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## lowlife (Apr 7, 2015)

As far as replacement motors go I would like a single speed 1800 rpm. I assume 1750 would be okay if significantly cheaper? Under 10A. And the same bolt mounting pattern. Anything I am missing here? Thanks again.


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## JimDawson (Apr 7, 2015)

lowlife said:


> As far as replacement motors go I would like a single speed 1800 rpm. I assume 1750 would be okay if significantly cheaper? Under 10A. And the same bolt mounting pattern. Anything I am missing here? Thanks again.



A typical 1800 RPM @60Hz (nominal) actually turns at somewhere between 1725 and 1750.  This is due to the internal slippage in the magnetic flux.  So you will find most 4-pole motors rated at 1725-1750.


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## lowlife (Apr 7, 2015)

Thanks I believe this is a good option. I need to go find the shaft dia and base # and will order one up. Not that we are done yet because  have the uncanny ability to screw stuff up I want to thank everyone. Hopefully i can contribute something someday. I doubt it will be about machining except the way not to do something, but thats ok too.


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## jim18655 (Apr 7, 2015)

1750 -1800 pretty much the same motor. 1800 RPM rating is before you take into account the "slip" that the motor needs to run. Is one of the switches  you show a speed switch? The contactors in the second picture are for forward and reverse. U-V-W appear to be power in and R-S-T to the motor. Forward connects U - R, V-S, W-T, reverse connects U-T, V-S, W-R.


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## lowlife (Apr 7, 2015)

The longer of the switches in the first pic is the off, low, high switch. I have bypassed everything and gone directly to the motor though I may not have the proper 3 wires. I have it connected in the top left of the 2nd pic. unfortunately I did not catch it in the photo. I will have to get a better pic thats shows how I connected it. I think the wires that came off the high switch are 1,a,b,c. I bypassed that and went straight to the motor. I will get a better pic if that helps.


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## lowlife (Apr 7, 2015)

No I was wrong I remember taking the wires directly off the main which was the first component and running it to the wires that ran from the high speed switch which was the last thing in the wiring. Now I'm wondering whether I did connect it right?


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## lowlife (Apr 10, 2015)

I removed A cover off of the motor and found this. I am confused by this. An help? 

Speed_____Lines to____Short_____Open
Low ______A1,B1,C1____----- ____A2,B2,C2
High_____A2,B2,C2___A1,B1,C1___--------


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## JimDawson (Apr 10, 2015)

Here is the way I read it:

Speed_____Lines to_________________Short_____Open

Low ______A1,B1,C1 (Connect to power)____----- ____A2,B2,C2 (Connect to nothing)

High_____A2,B2,C2 (Connect to power)___A1,B1,C1 (Connect together)


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## lowlife (Apr 11, 2015)

Thanks for your prompt reply. Connect all 3 to each other? I assume this is correct just need to be 100% sure. I did not do this previously. All I did was connect ABC2. Sounds good will try to get to it today. I'm out nothing if it doesn't work.Thanks again.


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## JimDawson (Apr 11, 2015)

Yes, connect all three (A1,B1,C1) to each other.  That's the way I read it.


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## jim18655 (Apr 11, 2015)

Connect the 2s to power and short the 1s together. That's a consequent pole 2 speed motor. Reverse any two power leads if it turns backward.


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## lowlife (Apr 11, 2015)

Ok gents, it works, I wish to say thank you for you guys staying with me here and helping to the end. You saved me a pile of cash so in passing it forward I will make a donation to this website again. 1 more question. How do i know if its a 2 or 4 pole motor and does it matter that much on vfd programming?


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## lowlife (Apr 11, 2015)

Donation made...........Small compensation for the service received


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## JimDawson (Apr 11, 2015)

Thank you for your donation.

One of the ways you can tell how many poles is the motor rated RPM.  At 60Hz a 2 pole motor will run at 3600 nominal (3450), a 4 pole motor will run at 1800 nominal (1725), a 6 pole will run at 1200 nominal (1100 or so), and an 8 pole at a nominal 900.  Sometimes the motor will have the number of poles stated on the data tag.

A 2 speed motor may be a 2/4 pole depending whether it's connected hi or lo or a 4/8 or some combination depending on how its wired.

Many VFDs want to know the number of poles, but I'm not sure exactly why.  Maybe someone can explain that one.


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