# Drawing Software



## rzw0wr

I am sure a lot of you draw something up before you start a project.

I am using SKetchup right now but they don't support my version anymore.
And it can get a little complex for 2D stuff.

I tried several free cad programs on line but most are confusing and 3D.

I would like a simple 2D cad program.


What do you use?

Thank you,
Dale


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## Karl_T

I use draftsight. It was free, but now $100 a year. reluctantly, I'll pay for it.

Its 2D only. I just draw more views. 

On a couple parts, I've imported into Fusion 360 to make 3D models. this would only be for complex assembly designs in my case.


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## devils4ever

I second what Karl_T said. I use DraftSight for all my drawings, but now they are starting to charge for it. 

I have to decide if it's worth $100/year for me.


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## Technical Ted

For 2D check out Siemen's Solid Edge (it's free) https://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/plmapp/education/solid-edge/en_us/free-software/free-2d-cad

I use Fusion 360 (free) for everything now. For my use, it's the best thing since sliced bread.

Ted


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## JohnG

I've used AutoCad since 1990.  When I retired 3 years ago, I bought an older AutoCad 2007 license on Ebay for about $100.00.  That was the last version that was sold as a permanent license, not a subscription.  I bought something called a longbow convertor that adapted the older cad to the newer Windows operating system, also about $100.00.  This has run fine on my home computer for 3 years now, and I expect at least 3 more out of it. I had to save my personal drawings on my work machine back to that older version before I retired.
Most of my work was regulatory compliance, and the P.E.'s I submitted drawings to all used AutoCad, so I didn't have a choice in software.


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## nnam

I loved Sketchup, one of the easiest but very functional app.  It was free by Google, but later sold and no longer free.  I used it to design my kitchen layout for cabinets, house remodeling and full house  HVAC air duct system.  It was extremely useful.
I had to make a piramid shape metal cap for my chimney, with a round hole not in a middle.  After design, I unroll it into flat surface and use the measurement to draw onto sheet metal to cut.  Install fit perfectly, gven the hole was not in the center.

Now, I am using FreeCAD.  It is very good.  But it still has some wrinkles to it.  But after knowing how to use it, not too bad, and free.
It is actively being deveoped and hopefully will resolve all the wrinkles.


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## Mitch Alsup

I do stuff like what follows in CorelDraw, my copy is from 1999


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## Winegrower

Solidworks for me.   It's expensive but it was a one time investment, seems to have plenty more features in my 2013 version than I'll ever use.

I see that anything I can make, I can draw, but not the other way around.


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## Mini Cooper S

Alibre Atom 3D! $199 easy to use, I find it very intuitive. Full 3D modeling then your model can be transferred over to 2D drawings, changes you make on the model will automatically transfer to your drawing. I always model my parts first then transfer to a drawing. Modeling and drawing in one program.  I absolutely love this program!
I added MecSoft for Alibre ($599),  it's a plug in program for Alibre, now I have modeling, drawing and CNC programing all in one program.
Richard


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## jmarkwolf

I've been using AutoCad since the late 80's, then went to AcadLT for economic reasons, then started using DraftSight when my 10 year old AcadLT 2010 couldn't support some of the newer DWG and DXF formats I was getting from clients.

I recently bought a new Win10 computer and AcadLT 2010 locked up the computer, and I had to do a Windows restore to recover.

I really don't want to give up on my AcadLT so now I'll look into the Longbow converter that JohnG mentions.

Check out the Design Spark Mechanical 3D design software. It appears to be quite good, and it's free. I'm learning it slowly.


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## RJSakowski

Winegrower said:


> Solidworks for me.   It's expensive but it was a one time investment, seems to have plenty more features in my 2013 version than I'll ever use.
> 
> I see that anything I can make, I can draw, but not the other way around.


I bought a seat of SolidWorks in 2012.  I have been using SolidWorks for fifteen years and although I wouldn't consider myself a master of it, I can model anything that I can conceive and usually very quickly and efficiently.  However, for the average hobbyist, $4K+ is an unthinkable expenditure.  

That said, I started drafting manually and worked up through AutoSketch and AutoCad.  It is inconceivable for me to think of going back to a non parametric CAD package.  The learning curve is a bit steep at first but if you put a bit of effort into it you will become proficient .  The time saved in converting ideas to working models will soon repay the effort put forth in learning the CAD software.  I find a great deal of satisfaction in creating a model in software and finally making the real article and comparing the two side by side.  Asode from that, working with 3D models is a great way to discover potential problems before time, materials, and tooling are expended.


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## jmarkwolf

For those of you that like Solidworks, you can get the hobbyist/student version for $40/year, simply by joining the Experimental Aircraft Association (www.eaa.org). The Solidworks is free to members, membership is $40/year.


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## Illinoyance

Solid Edge ST8 is what I am using for 2D drafting.  It is (or was) free.


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## RJSakowski

For those who insist on working with an AutoCad-like cad package, https://nanocad.com/products/nanoCAD/download/


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## SLK001

I have been using Autocad since 1984 (v 1.8).  I currently run version 2000i and have no plans on updating.


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## Boswell

I have been using AutoCad since I first installed in on a IBM286 in the mid '80s.   Using Autocad 2012 at it has been working well but I know that sooner or later it is no longer going to work. I just joined EAA to check out Solidworks.


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## mmcmdl

Is Unigraphics still in use ? It's been over 20 years since I've used any drawing or modeling or programming seats  .    Maybe in the near future I could get back up to speed in one of these packages .


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## mickri

I use Sketchup.  There is still a free version as far as I know.  I tried several of the cad programs including draftsight and could never come close to figuring out how to use it.  Maybe because Sketchup is so easy to use and does everything that I have wanted to draw that I didn't really put the effort into learning the cad programs.


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## 38super

UG was bought by Seimens, now known as NX.  Friends have said it is more CATIA than the UG18 version that I used.


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## mmcmdl

The Gubmint still use this ?


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## BGHansen

mmcmdl said:


> Is Unigraphics still in use ? It's been over 20 years since I've used any drawing or modeling or programming seats  .    Maybe in the near future I could get back up to speed in one of these packages .


UG is still alive and kicking at $10k for a license and around $2500 a year maintenance fee. GM uses it for design work. Best thing to happen for packages like Solidworks; most of the capability for a fraction of the cost. 

My wife is a UG designer at a local defense contractor. She does freelance work at home using Solidworks (EAA member).

Bruce


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## matthewsx

I have tried to learn 3D design software many times in the past, now with my CNC mill/drill nearing completion it's become more urgent. I've also been a computer admin for 30+ years and have watched as the professional software market has evolved over that time. I'll be putting my effort into learning FreeCAD for a number of reasons which have mostly been listed here already.

1. It's FOSS - Free and Open Source Software
2. I'm confident that with the number of people working on the project it's not going away any time soon.
3. The user base ranges from hobbyists to serious professionals and the community supports them all (kinda like Hobby-Machinist).
4. Bugs are likely to be addresses quickly and new features added often.
5. I like the Open Source model for software and have watched as it has become better than closed source in every way.

Of course, if I had spent a lot of time learning something that worked for me, or, if I had a lot of money tied up in a closed solution I would probably stay with that. But if someone was just starting out I would highly recommend installing Ubuntu Linux and FreeCad on their PC and giving it a try. Linux is a lot easier to install and work with than it was just a few years ago and it costs nothing to try it out.

Great tip on the EAA membership thing with Solidworks though, awesome software and great organization (my dad was a homebuilder). But as both time and money are limited for me I know what I'll be doing and why.

John


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## 38super

Occasionally, a project will transition design SW mid stream (UG18 to CATIAV5R16).  So there are times when a designer opens two different CAD systems and works between them.   Depending on your skills, it may be easier to design in the older CAD and import to the new.  Personally, that was a bad management decision since every model/drawing had to be converted and checked.  This is when IGES, DFX and STL are a godsend or the most dangerous.


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## nnam

matthewsx said:


> I'll be putting my effort into learning FreeCAD for a number of reasons which have mostly been listed here already.
> 
> John



Comparing working with FreeCad and AutoCad or Solidworks, I found the knowledge is very transferable and making moving to others much easier.

From the extremely good and easy user interface of Sketchup, I moved to FreeCad no problem.
I then went onto making FreeCad animation using Python and  QT threads . I never wrote Python before that, reminded me of the dinosaur COBOL programming in term of spaces.

Ubuntu was my main OS, but now there are some great alternatives.  When you have time, give Mint Linux a shot, based on Ubuntu.  Another great OS that is light weight, making your computer super fast is https://lxle.net/

Also based on Ubuntu, you can still do pretty much everything by installing Ubuntu packages. Makes Core 2 duo fast again (with SSD hard drive)

I use both of them.


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## catsparadise

If you're a cheapskate like me and would prefer to spend your hard earned cash on physical tools rather than virtual ones, you might do worse than trying Designspark. Its a 3D design package that can be downloaded from rs-online.com/designspark/mechanical-download-and-installation. It requires you to register to unlock it but I've not seen any downsides to that in the 3 yrs I've run it. Its intended for 3D printing I think. I came across it as I used RS for electrical/electronic components when I converted my lathe and mill to run off VFDs.

Rob


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## DavidR8

I'm learning Fusion 360. Slowly.


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## nnam

I just looked briefly, the DesignSpark user interaction interface is so similar to that of Sketchup.


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## nnam

A bit off topic, but continue about the Lxle Linux above, they even made a desktop background for people like us, some somewhat relevant .  It was even the default image a while back. It's really nice:


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## 38super

OK, who started out with vellum and a drafting square.


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## DavidR8

Yup. 
I learned from my dad. Still have most of his gear 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## T Bredehoft

I used Velum and drafting square in college, passed the course, never got proficient with ink. 4 and 6H though. 

Tried FreeCAD today can't make head nor tail of it. too used to AutoCAD types.


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## SLK001

Having learned Autocad using the command line interface, I had a difficult time using the later icon interface (which icon means "line" - what does that icon do?).  I still keep a command line on my Autocad window, but I am getting more comfortable with the newfangled icon thingies.


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## fixit

When I started it was PEN & INK ON LINEN


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## Boswell

While I don't have my drafting board anymore, I do still have tub with a lot of my manual drawing tools and a shelf with dozens of drawings on vellum. I love using ACAD but in a strange way, I also miss manual drafting.


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## SLK001

fixit said:


> When I started it was PEN & INK ON LINEN



Yeah, me too, but I never did "linen".  What I like most of all about the CAD packages is the ability to draw construction lines (even before ACAD had theirs) and the ERASE them with no trace left on the "paper".  I also like the consistent line widths and not having to worry any more about the infamous "pencil twist".

I still sketch drawings manually, but before they go to the shop, I usually spend some time on Autocad to verify dimensions and to "nicify" the drawing.


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## matthewsx

DavidR8 said:


> Yup.
> I learned from my dad. Still have most of his gear
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I have my dad's drafting board, I can remember a few projects I had in my head that he made me draw out before I started. I still work from my head sometimes but I doubt that will work with the CNC....

1ohn


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## pontiac428

I like SolidWorks.  I taught myself using books and tutorials in 2003-2004.  Versions I've used are 03, 04, 07, and 2013.  I stopped upgrading at 2013, realizing the software had all I need back in 2004.  I've also used Inventor and AC, but never liked them much.  The productivity of SW for 3D modeling is superior and intuitive to the design workflow.  Since there are ways to acquire affordable licenses, there's no reason not to.

That said, I started out in the '80s with T-sqare and angles.  We were still using them when I took engineering drafting in 2006.  I still sketch ideas that way, but quickly move into SolidWorks once I have an idea worked out.


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## Winegrower

You folks may see it differently, but for me, learning Solidworks was hard and frustrating, just as it was for Autocad and Alibre.  Yep, tried them.   I did not see much transferable learning among them.   Sort of like say, guitar to violin...they’re just strings, right?   But I stuck with Solidworks, having seen what happens when you choose the wrong platform, like Pro-E.    And now, it would be unthinkable to relearn a new package, if it were just money in the way.  Eventually I might work up to some finite element analysis that might help my design process, and be kinda fun.

Side note for old timers...long ago I used to drool over drafting machines...could not afford one.   Now that they show up at garage sales for $5 I don’t want one.   Sad, no?


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## fixit

When the company I worked for started to upgrade the drafting furniture I got my drawing desk & chair. I still have it with the parallel attached to strings. It's a nice work table for hobby projects, 3 X 3 wood legs, 36 X 60 solid wood drawing surface. I started in the drafting room in 1961. We actually had to show the grain in the woodblocks & threads on the bolts.


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## nnam

Winegrower said:


> I did not see much transferable learning among them.



Check this video our for doing a same thing on both FreeCAD and Solidworks.  Knowing the similarities and differences can help the transition.






Here's how you can see your how familiarity of Solidworks can be transformed into AutoCAD's workflow:






Hope it helps.


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## Janderso

Some of us find Solidworks and Fusion 360 extremely vast and complex, I can't even design a square, I've tried numerous times.
I'm afraid I may be just an old dog who can no longer learn a new trick.
I did enjoy drafting back in High School and I can still make some decent drawings.
My tools, a mechanical pencil, quality paper, a ruler, protractor, compass and a cup of coffee.


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## middle.road

Janderso said:


> Some of us find Solidworks and Fusion 360 extremely vast and complex, I can't even design a square, I've tried numerous times.
> I'm afraid I may be just an old dog who can no longer learn a new trick.
> I did enjoy drafting back in High School and I can still make some decent drawings.
> My tools, a mechanical pencil, quality paper, a ruler, protractor, compass and a cup of coffee.


Nonsense Ol' Man, we can learn new tricks!
I can't seem to get the hang of Fusion either but then I'm old school CAD (if there is such a thing.)
It takes a complete re-think regarding the methods and techniques that we have learned over the years.

I keep doing up my designs in 2D then DXFing them over to Fusion and then the accuracy bug in DXF bites me in the arse.

Been working it since AutoTrol in '79. Cadam, Catia, Autocad 1.x on a Tandy XT (ugh!), and so on.
In '93 I did my first complex model in AutoCad 12 with AME 2.1. Managed to get featured in the Autodesk calendar that year.
Then I drifted out of CAD/CAM into systems admin which in hindsight was a big mistake.
Haven't kept up in earnest over the years.
Stepson was just stopped by for a couple of days and showed this Old Goat a couple of things. Got the SpacePilot working properly which embarrassed me all to heck. Needed to check on a few boxes in a buried sub-menu is all, and I missed that.

They just changed the licensing on Fusion for us hobbyists. They've chopped out the ability to exchange designs between other packages.  
-=-=-=-
Meanwhile, Honey grabbed me this along with a Hamilton VR20 Table at an estate sale this past spring.
Classic Vemco V-Track. Going to have to find a home for it, it's right-handed and I'm left-handed.
And in truth I can't find the space in the house for the table - although I am trying.


Not mine, can't find the picts I took, but the same.


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## Janderso

Mr. Middle.road,
Imagine you never had any background or experience with any electronic drawing software, today at your age.
To me the concept is so daunting I don't know where to begin.
I have spent some time watching Paul McWhorter on Youtube. He knows his stuff!
I begin OK then get lost and have to start over making a square box. I'm not usually so dense but that program (Fusion 360) makes me feel like a complete idiot.
If I had some time and could take some classes, I may be able to begin, but I think that's the only way I would ever feel any success.


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## middle.road

Janderso said:


> Mr. Middle.road,
> Imagine you never had any background or experience with any electronic drawing software, today at your age.
> To me the concept is so daunting I don't know where to begin.
> I have spent some time watching Paul McWhorter on Youtube. He knows his stuff!
> I begin OK then get lost and have to start over making a square box. I'm not usually so dense but that program (Fusion 360) makes me feel like a complete idiot.
> If I had some time and could take some classes, I may be able to begin, but I think that's the only way I would ever feel any success.


It is daunting and will get extremely frustrating at times. A lot of clicking this and selecting that and oh yeah, ya got to make this active first to construct on a certain plane.
I've gotten so PO'd with it I shut it down and walk away.
I have this fantasy of becoming proficient at it some day. Not betting on it though, but will keep plugging away. 
Back in the '80s after Autotrol and Cadam I was exposed to Autocad. Had to learn that on my own and finally mastered it.
But I can remember the same level of frustration at the time even with having experience on the mainframe packages.
I watch Lars quite a bit, need to check out Paul's videos sometime. I do find myself having to re-watch videos just to be able to execute basic tasks.

There is still something extremely satisfying with using pencil, paper and a straightedge.
I dug into my old drafting tool chest last night for a piece of lead to use with the jewelry soldering, and found myself reminiscing and missing the vellum and graphite days.


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## nnam

Janderso said:


> Mr. Middle.road,
> Imagine you never had any background or experience with any electronic drawing software, today at your age.
> To me the concept is so daunting I don't know where to begin.
> I have spent some time watching Paul McWhorter on Youtube. He knows his stuff!
> I begin OK then get lost and have to start over making a square box. I'm not usually so dense but that program (Fusion 360) makes me feel like a complete idiot.
> If I had some time and could take some classes, I may be able to begin, but I think that's the only way I would ever feel any success.



Don't give up.  I used to try Blender out, and I failed.  After awhile of doing it, I couldn't tell where is what and got so disoriented that I just wanted to give out.

But thanks to this thread, and to my familiar with other 3D packages, which I didn't know then, I am going to give it another shot.  I think I got it this time.


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## RobertB

Janderso said:


> My tools, a mechanical pencil, quality paper, a ruler, protractor, compass and a cup of coffee.


Mine too Jeff. I have had Autodesk Inventor and Autocad for years, but don't use them often enough to stay proficient with them. I have to spend too much time re-learning the software every time I use it
So far I have never forgotten how to use a pencil and a ruler.


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## Winegrower

Nntam, thank you for putting that post together.   I will review.
If the point is that the basic extrusion/cut process is the same, I agree.  But to me it’s like a tune on guitar can be similar to the same tune on a violin, but just like software, the trouble is in exactly where you put your fingers.


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## middle.road

RobertB said:


> Mine too Jeff. I have had Autodesk Inventor and Autocad for years, but don't use them often enough to stay proficient with them. I have to spend too much time re-learning the software every time I use it
> So far I have never forgotten how to use a pencil and a ruler.


Inventor was a package I never managed to get my teeth into. Spec'd out and setup the workstations for it but never got to use it properly when I had the chance.
I checked out a 30-day eval of AutoCadLT201x awhile back and it's interesting how closely it now resembles AutoCad from the turn of the century.

I'd like to find space in the house for the VR20, mount my left-handed drafting machine up to it and break out the pencil(s) and paper, and oh yeah, the electric eraser...


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## Technical Ted

Just like learning how to run a lathe, milling machine, surface grinder, etc., learning how to use a CAD program can take a lot of practice and patience to learn... I've found that learning it has paid huge benefits, especially when designing assemblies and more complex multi part assemblies. 

My most recent was building a simple welding cart for my two new welders. Did I need to use CAD to design it? No. But, once you learn how to use a tool like CAD, it can really help on a project like this with cut lengths, end preps for tight fit ups, making sure you have the correct clearances, etc.. For this simple design I didn't draw every last detail, just the basic outline and finished the small things up after the basic structure build. 

I learned it by watching YouTube videos and, at times, stopping the videos and drawing along... Then, it was trail, error and patience! 

Ted


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## mmcmdl

BGHansen said:


> My wife is a UG designer at a local defense contractor.



Yes Bruce , I also used this in DOD work . It was amazing back then , and I can only imagine what it can do nowadays .


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## Janderso

That’s what’s missing,  a handle!


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## Chip Hacket

Great discussion guys.  I've been using ACAD since the 80s.  My job requires I draw electrical schematics which are of course inherently 2D.  The things I do in my hobby workshop currently I do in ACAD.  I am addicted to the command line and agree with SLK001 about the icon thingies.  L <space> @10<270 draws a line 10 units long at 270 degrees.  Simplicity at it best I think. 

Problem is if I ever decide to CNC my mill I'll need a 3D package of some kind I think.  I've been begrudgingly leaning toward Fusion 360 because of the cost.  Now after reading what Middle.Road said about the licensing change I like the idea even less.  Never did like the idea of someone else managing my files, or changing the rules along the way.

And to top it off I would love to kick Windows to the curb after I retire.  I prefer Linux, it's simple and it works.  Problem is many things require windows.  Maybe I should just stick with pencil and paper (the old fashion #2 not the mechanical kind) and buy myself a lovely new file and hack saw blade.


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## rzw0wr

I used anything I could get my hands on that was big enough to hole my drawing.

Butcher paper one time.
I got rid of my board when Sketchup came out.


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## pontiac428

For those of you (@Janderso ) that struggle with the vastness of design packages, I strongly suggest starting with the very first built-in tutorial (Solidworks is my point of reference) and work through the modules.  In a couple of hours that will fly by, you'll learn all the menus, items, and tricks.  It is in the software publisher's best interest that users know how to use (and like) their products.  The training tutorials are like grammar school for budding CADdies.  They provide a solid foundation for proficiency, if you've got the time.


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## Lo-Fi

Onshape all the way. Its free (for hobbyists), full feature 3D cad (basically like Solidworks). Like many modern packages, the basis of drawing 3D stuff is 2D sketches, so the 2D is pretty powerful in its own right. They have an extensive video tutorial library too, which makes it very easy to learn. 

I use it literally all the time to model anything I'm going to build. It saves a ton of head scratching over angles, spacings and suchlike if I'm fabricating, and I often knock up 2D drawings for patterns to print and tape to blanks and punch mark for drilling or profiling. It would take me hours to do on my drawing board what takes minutes in Onshape. Also saves me a bunch of "Doh" moments where I've spotted a "gotcha" as I'm modelling that might have ruined a piece if I'd got straight into machining or fabricating.
I use it lots to make models to 3D print too. My latest little model and print project was a set of collect block holders:




A couple of minutes to model and a few hours to print, but while printing I can just leave it chugging away and get on with something else. Aren't robots wonderful! 

My 2c, anyway


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## middle.road

Lo-Fi said:


> Onshape all the way. Its free (for hobbyists), full feature 3D cad (basically like Solidworks). Like many modern packages, the basis of drawing 3D stuff is 2D sketches, so the 2D is pretty powerful in its own right. They have an extensive video tutorial library too, which makes it very easy to learn.
> 
> I use it literally all the time to model anything I'm going to build. It saves a ton of head scratching over angles, spacings and suchlike if I'm fabricating, and I often knock up 2D drawings for patterns to print and tape to blanks and punch mark for drilling or profiling. It would take me hours to do on my drawing board what takes minutes in Onshape. Also saves me a bunch of "Doh" moments where I've spotted a "gotcha" as I'm modelling that might have ruined a piece if I'd got straight into machining or fabricating.
> I use it lots to make models to 3D print too. My latest little model and print project was a set of collect block holders:
> 
> View attachment 308778
> 
> 
> A couple of minutes to model and a few hours to print, but while printing I can just leave it chugging away and get on with something else. Aren't robots wonderful!
> 
> My 2c, anyway


"OnShape"? That is one that I have not come across. Going to check it out soonest. -Thanks!


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## devils4ever

So it's now 2020 and my DraftSight software is still running. It was supposed to stop running on January 1st, 2020. Has anyone's software stopped running due to the new year? I was looking for alternatives, but maybe I don't have to.


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## rock_breaker

38super said:


> OK, who started out with vellum and a drafting square.


I did at Fort Lewis College. Durango Colorado in 1960.


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## Mini Cooper S

38super said:


> OK, who started out with vellum and a drafting square.


8th. Grade shop class 1965. First CAD program that I used was called Vellum! If I remember right that was in the late 80's.


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## RJSakowski

For those who find SolidWorks difficult, I would recommend  the SolidWorks Bible series by Lombard.  

I started with 2003 and have all editions through 2010.  (He didn't publish an edition for 2012 which is the latest version of SolidWorks that I have and most of my work is still done in 2010.)  There is a 2013 edition and a double 3edition for 2011 for parts and assemblies.

Lombard does a great job of illustrating the way to git'er done; much better than SolidWorks help does.


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## T Bredehoft

My Draftsight, as of 1 Jan, requires me to register, as I try, it tells me to send money.  I'm strugglingl with FreeCAD,


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## MrWhoopee

I too started with pencil and vellum. Took drafting as part of my "Create your own major" in '78. I still have a bundle of those drawings from my early work at Fred's. Graduated to ACAD in the early 80s while working for Fred. Anyone remember when they jumped from v. 2.5 to v. 9?  Currently running ACAD 2000 in a Windows XP virtual machine dedicated to that purpose. Plot to a DWF file, then open in AutoDesk DWF viewer and print. Still using the command line, never worried about all those stupid icons. Somewhere I have an old copy of Solidworks I never even installed.


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## SLK001

MrWhoopee said:


> Currently running ACAD 2000 in a Windows XP virtual machine dedicated to that purpose. Plot to a DWF file, then open in AutoDesk DWF viewer and print. Still using the command line, never worried about all those stupid icons. Somewhere I have an old copy of Solidworks I never even installed.



Your setup seems overly complex.  Why are you running in an XP VM?  I'm running 2000i on Windows 7 with no problems.  Prints just fine also.

I am today mostly using the stupid icons, although some commands that I use don't have icons, like CHANGE and LTSCALE.  I guess that these commands have been deprecated and superseded by other commands.  To this, I say "screw you".  I don't want to have to relearn the program that I have been using for over 35 years.  I ended up just creating my own icons for these and put them in my custom menus.  

I want to get a 3D printer, so I will be searching for a 3D program.  I refuse to use the cloud, so Fusion 360 is out.


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## matthewsx

T Bredehoft said:


> My Draftsight, as of 1 Jan, requires me to register, as I try, it tells me to send money.  I'm strugglingl with FreeCAD,



As suggested go through the tutorials, there are different ones depending on where you want to start. 






						Tutorials - FreeCAD Documentation
					






					www.freecadweb.org
				




FreeCAD has a strong and growing user base, and I think you'll find their forum pretty helpful too.





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						FreeCAD Forum - FreeCAD forum
					





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The days of closed source software are numbered IMHO, it's just so much better having a design team of hundreds and a QA team of thousands. Chances are if there's a feature you want and it's not already part of the software someone is developing it as you're looking and they want your feedback.





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I'll be jumping into it with both feet later this month but a while back I was able to make a simple sketch of my machine in less than an hour. I've checked out Fusion360 and it seems pretty cool but just like any other closed source they can always choose to change their revenue model and leave some users behind. Also, as much as I like cloud enabled applications I'm the only one using it so there's no benefit for my process. 

I work in Linux education so I might be biased but for the amount of time and effort learning CAD software I want to make sure that I can use the tool I choose for many years to come.


1ohn


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## MrWhoopee

SLK001 said:


> Your setup seems overly complex.  Why are you running in an XP VM?  I'm running 2000i on Windows 7 with no problems.  Prints just fine also.



It refused to install on Win7 for me, maybe I just didn't find the right trick.


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## Boswell

A few observations. Win 10 (and for several releases prior) has a compatibility mode that lets you set the "OS" level you want to run a application in. This might work for you. I run ACAD 2002 in Windows 10 with no problem. Also while I use the command line a lot, I also have several button bars setup so I can go faster by not having to take my hand off the mouse. Finally, I don't think Fusion 360 requires "Cloud" access to RUN. I don't use it because I have ACAD but I have seen multiple posts with this information. I think you need to be able to connect to the internet occasionally but not constantly to run it. At least worth checking into this if the this is the only reason you are not considering it.


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## pontiac428

@MrWhoopee If you can't install the software, it's because 32-bit cad software uses the old 16-bit windows installer tool.  With a 64 bit windows version installed on your machine, you can't run that installer.  I bet SLK001 is running the 32-bit version of win 7, so he was able to run the installer.

I run a XP VM on a 64 bit win 7 for 16-bit native software, old utilities for old hardware.  For something as important as a cad suite, it's probably worth downgrading to the 32-bit win 7 and using that.


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## middle.road

Autodesk is messing around with the licensing.
Fired mine up around Christmas and my license had lapsed so I went through what I thought was the 'hobbyist' choices when selecting.
As I mentioned in post #42 it looks like they have 'crippled' the ability to import or export w/ other packages directly.

Now this is popping up when I brought it up today.
I'm trying to figure out how I ended up as a 'startup'...


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## matthewsx

So, when working as a Sr. Network Administrator one of the things I specialized in was campus wide remediations. I would go into a facility (engineering & manufacturing mostly) and upgrade everything from network switches to servers, phones, pc's and software. I ran into quite a few departments where people were cobbling old systems together to keep one piece of software running. Line managers were often responsible for this because they didn't want to request budget for new stuff. 

I got rid of that old junk because for senior management this kind of thinking comprised a major liability. I've seen entire departments set back months when one hard drive failed and I've watched grown men cry when their data was lost. I've seen people fly into a rage when their 10-year-old files couldn't be converted to a newer version of the same software title, and watched slack jawed as entire databases were printed out and faxed to another office when network services were available. So, you may be able to get by with old stuff but make sure you have a backup plan for when (not if) something changes or fails.

As hobbyists we probably aren't running multi-million dollar facilities but old software and hardware still constitutes a signifigant risk. You never know when a hard drive crash or software update will cripple you. Not only that but the time invested in learining new, more powerful/efficient systems usually pays dividends far greater than what it costs. My recommendation is keep your operating system and application software updated on a regular basis. Make backups of your files and store them is a safe (fireproof or cloud based) place. And, if you're wondering if it's time to ditch windows just download a "live" version of Ubuntu or another Linux distribution and give it a try running from a thumb drive. You may be glad you did....

1ohn


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## coffmajt

For those trying to learn Fusion 360 you can get a text book plus videos from a company named Ascent.  ISBN 97819431184903.  I watched a number of U tube videos but they were more confusing than helpful - this book starts with the basics and builds-  I love the power of 360 and now the u tube videos are helpful == I too learned drafting in high school - just keep learning == Jack


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## nnam

I earlier said that I wanted to learn Blender again... and I did.  I am now able to make simple stuff and still learning.  I am much more comfortable with it now.  To make things even more interesting, I got my kids learning them with me.  They all are doing well.  The youngest is 1st grader.  I think the keys are practice, practice and practice.  Doing that, icons, keyboard shortcuts and ideas imprints in the brain and you'll get used to them.

I would suggest go ahead and find the easiest lessons and keep going at it. Don't hit any hard. For example, we learned how to add material/texture to a ball, move, rotate, change dimension of a cube, add lighting, extrude, bevel, insets, make a treasure chest. Today, we were learning to make a donut and some of the steps appear a bit hard to follow. But we managed.

I think my prior failure was due to I watched few videos, told myself it was doable, then went and do it myself on my own project and failed.

It appears learning these things is like learning a new language or a musical instrument, you just have to keep going at it and at a pace that suite you the most.

Hopefully this helps.


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## pontiac428

The way I settled on Solidworks was by modeling three parts/assemblies in three software suites by following a book by Prof. Sham Tickoo (amazon link to book) while I had some useable time on my hands back in 2004.  I modeled the same three parts in each suite, Mechsoft Pro/E, Autodesk Inventor, and Solidworks.  Each part could be built nearly the same, regardless of software, so the difference would be in the user experience.  I found that I preferred Solidworks.  Maybe if I had lots of early Autocad experience I would have liked Inventor, but having not spent time with the ecosystem leading up to my trial, I found it didn't suit me.  Anyhow, this was an eye opening process for me.  Of course, you'll need to acquire software, but there are a number of options for home users, trial copies, academic licenses, and dark arts methods available to make a trial run possible.  A university library or community college computer lab may offer access as well.


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## aliva

I'm using AutoCad 2018 It's a free student version it's fully functional in all respects. Just go to AutoCad and download the student version. I'm no student but I registered as one. no problems so far. I believe its a 5 year license


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## Norseman C.B.

I use CAD a lot in my shop.   *C*ardboard *A*ided *D*esign, I think some one said that
before but it still works fine for a lot of things..............


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## Norseman C.B.

I also use my drafting table and tools cuz I like to................... 
I did download Freecad a while back but am still intimidated by it..........


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## BrentH

I have worked with AutoCad since version 6 I think?  With limited access to the internet I like the stand alone software - been using NanoCad as was mentioned a bit back.  Seems to work fine and very similar to the 2000's version of AutoCad....a bit cruder I guess in some ways but it seems to work and I have opened and worked on ACAD drawings from the latest ACAD using it?   

Mostly I use a pencil and graph paper though.....


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## Boswell

I would be quite comfortable with Pencil and paper for 2D drawings although I do like Autocad even for 2D. However, if you ever want to use a 3D Printer you will have to design the part in a 3D drawing tool. Also now, if the part is even the least bit complex, I tend to draw it in 3D to allow better visualization.  The best drawing software is the one that you spend enough time practicing with.


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## JimDawson

RJSakowski said:


> For those who insist on working with an AutoCad-like cad package, https://nanocad.com/products/nanoCAD/download/



My ACAD license expired and I am having some problems getting it to renew.  While the drawings will import into Fusion 360, there are times that I like AutoCAD simply because I have been using it for many years, especially for simple stuff.  I am slowly learning Fusion 360, I have the CAM functions pretty well figured out, but having a hard time getting my head around 3D modeling..

I installed *nanoCAD* yesterday and was pleasantly surprised, for all practical purposes it is AutoCAD.  I was making drawings in about 5 minutes, all of the normal AutoCAD functions are there and it has the same look & feel of AutoCAD and in some cases is easier to navigate.  I was able to import my AutoCAD 2013 dwg files with no problem.  I only played with it for about 15 minutes, but so far I'm impressed.


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## sgisler

I use nanoCAD for minor/simple things, I like it mostly. I was really sad that Draftsight stopped having a free option, it was identical to AutoCAD. NanoCAD’s scaling/dimensioning in paper space is kludgy at best - still don’t comprehend it fully. 
All that said, I’ve pretty well transitioned completely to Solidworks. The longer I use it, the faster it gets so I end up modeling even the simple stuff. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Karl_T

Say, my Draftsight has not died yet, but I am sure to be on borrowed time.

I just installed nanocad, looks like a GREAT option. thanks for sharing this.

Karl


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## Papa Charlie

I have used Auto-CAD and Solid Edge some time ago. Haven't had a copy of either for some time. Been using OnShape for a while now. Pretty nice program. For the hobbyist, it is free. The files reside on the web and are visible by anyone but have some security in that you have to share it with a person for them to access the details. 
Haven't done any real detailed work in it yet. Recently designed some new dash panels for my boat. I roughed in some of the components to ensure I had sufficient spacing. Easy enough to remove. My buddy has a CNC Router and can download the drawings and cut them out for me.


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## ARC-170

I taught AutoCAD, SolidWorks, SketchUp, Revit and hand drafting to high school students for a few years. Start with something simple, like a block with a hole. Then work your way into more complex shapes. Ya gotta learn "Mary had a Little Lamb" before you can even think if playing "Stairway to Heaven".

Use the tutorials that came with the program. Don't rush. Take your time. Some videos on YouTube are great, some are garbage. Find something that works for you.

The various programs all work a little differently, so find one that is easiest for your type of thinking. My students all had a particular favorite of the ones I showed them.

Here is a link to my class pages. On the left is a folder called "Engineering Design and Drafting". There are folders in there called "Intro to AutoCAD 3D" and "Intro to SolidWorks". There are videos I made of me showing how to use the programs. I hope they help.

Personally, I use AutoCAD (mostly 2D), a mechanical pencil and paper for my designs. For 3D printing I use AutoCAD or SolidWorks. I like SketchUp for making a quick sketch of a design, especially when I need to show it to lay people who can't read orthographic drawings.


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## Reddinr

NanoCad

 I just tried the free version of NanoCad on windows 10 today.  I had downloaded Autocad LT to give it a try but that expired.  Using Autocad LT was like putting on a comfortable pair of old shoes.   At $55/month though, Autocad LT is too rich for my blood.  Anyway, I tried to open a drawing in NanoCad that I did in Autocad LT a couple of weeks ago and just got an error box.  The drawing was not too complex but included some blocks, arrays.  Anyway, I guess I have to rent Autocad for a month to finish that project up and maybe try to DXF it out when done. 

It is really too bad that Autodesk doesn't help us hobbyists more with 2D.  I've used Autocad since the stone age, back then on a "huge" 16" green-screen monitor and don't really want to learn another 2D CAD.

Anyone tried LibreCAD?   I understand it is DXF only.


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## devils4ever

Here's my CAD/CAM/drawing saga.

For 2D drawings, I started with *DraftSight *and switched to *LibreCAD*. I was able to get up learning to use *LibreCAD *okay. I was okay with using *LibreCAD *for 2D. Then, with my CNC mill, I needed to learn some 3D application. So, I started with *Fusion 360* and switched to *FreeCAD*.

After getting decent at using *FreeCAD *for 3D and *LibreCAD *for 2D, I realized I could do both with *FreeCAD*.  *FreeCAD *has a workbench called *TechDraw *that allows a 2D drawing to be made from your 3D model.

So, now it seems all I need to use is *FreeCAD *for everything. *FreeCAD *is free. Free to use for hobby or commercial use and your files are not in the cloud. It will be free forever!

Beware that learning the 3D modeling in *FreeCAD *was no picnic, but now I can stay within one tool.


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## Chewy

I learned drafting in high-school back in the 60's. Still have all my own stuff and still use it for layouts and quick changes to look at something.

Have to have CAD so I use Draftsight.  $100+ a year now.  Learning (very, very slowly) Fusion 360 for 3D printers.  Going to look at Ascent, from another post.


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## Mini Cooper S

Norseman C.B. said:


> I use CAD a lot in my shop.   *C*ardboard *A*ided *D*esign, I think some one said that
> before but it still works fine for a lot of things..............



Just yesterday my son made a cardboard radiator for his Triumph GT6 racecar to confirm fit and clearances before he orders one that won't get soggy when he fills it with coolant!
Richard


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