# Planning For Everything??



## Jim1946 SB9" (Apr 8, 2016)

So as a beginner hobbiest I have allot to learn and the one I seem to be struggling with the most is planning. I guess I mean how do you plan for all the details of a build. The latest build would have been an ink pen made from aluminum intended to look like a bolt. It was to come apart underneath the nut and expose the head of the pin. Well I didn't plan it right and ended up having to glue the cap to the body to cut the threads but didn't make the cap thick enough and cut thru it and ruined everything. So please share your methods of planning. And yes I had a drawing just didn't know how to go about it. Feel free to share similar experiences as well it might make me fell better about my screw up


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## Paul in OKC (Apr 8, 2016)

You just did what most of us do, trial and error.  Some projects take just that to figure out, some work out with planning. Here's a couple of guys from a pen group I am in that do some neat stuff.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/brass-bolt-rollerball-137530/
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/quick-threaded-pen-fun-134861/
http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/3090/2_BoltOpen.jpg


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## Franko (Apr 8, 2016)

Screwing up is the best method to learn. All of my useful knowledge was fertilized by foolishness.


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## stupoty (Apr 8, 2016)

I learned quite quickly if it's more complex than a shaft with only one dimension and a thread on it then I nead to make a list of the order of opperations.  

It helps a lot as even simple projects often turn into "ow how the heck do I hold that end now i've done somthing to it where I don't want to marr the surface/damage thread and get a good grip".

Another thing is getting to know what tools you can get set up in what kind of areas, i.e. every thing seems fine then you realise the center hole for the tail stock support is too big and makes it dificult to get to size or it just gets in the way of your set up.

I only had to make 2 practice versions of the shaft I made today , yay 

Definetly worth keeping scraps of matirial for testing methods of doing stuff on, especialy threading, holes requireing spacific sizes , o.d.'s neading spacific sizes and surface finnish.  Very annoying to get somthing to size then realise ur going to nead to give it a buff to get a good finish and now it's to small, bahhh 

Ramble over, practice makes perfect as the others have said and we all go through it to some extent. 

Stuart


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## brino (Apr 8, 2016)

Hi Jim,

I agree that much of it is experience from practice and sometimes getting it wrong.

However, something else I have done is crude sketches of every step of how I intend to hold the part for doing each operation. These have often made me rethink my initial order of operations. After a while you'll find this step unnecessary as it becomes more automatic and obvious.

Another thought is to do some research on lathe work-holding. Read about and understand the benefits and challenges of chucks, collets, face-plates, stub arbors, expanding arbors, steadies, etc. The more you know the better your planning will be.

-brino

EDIT: Here's a few books I have found useful:

Workholding in the Lathe by Tubal Cain (link)
The Amateurs Lathe by L.H. Sparey (link)


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## Tozguy (Apr 8, 2016)

You might find that even after you advance to expert machinist, things do not always go as planned.
You just improve the odds. 
The ole expression 'experience is what you get when you don't get what you want' has a foundation.
Gotta go, my fourth try at making an ER32 chuck is waiting.


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## Tozguy (Apr 8, 2016)

Franko said:


> Screwing up is the best method to learn. All of my useful knowledge was fertilized by foolishness.


Not to mention the courage, audacity, enthusiasm, and focus that went into it.


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## kd4gij (Apr 8, 2016)

I never mess anything up. I do however make stuff for the stock pile from time to time.


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## strantor (Apr 8, 2016)

Some people can visualize things in their head better than others. They call it "spatial intelligence." In that realm of smarts I seem to randomly fall somewhere between "retarded" and "mensa" on any given day. If I'm having trouble visualizing the sequence of a blank piece of stock turning into a complex part, and the work holding of each step, then I draw it. I've gotten pretty handy with SketchUp and I can actually draw it faster on the computer than on paper. And on the computer, if I'm feeling particularly spatially stupid, I can draw a piece of blank stock and transform it into a complex part step by step, absolutely zero imagination required. Hard (but not impossible) to walk away from the PC after having just simulated the whole thing, and still screw it up.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Apr 8, 2016)

You will realize over time that often there is only one order of operations that will actually work on a given part, this may require multiple set ups, fixtures and rechucking the part several times which is time consuming at best and is always tedious. This may have to be done however regardless  of  you being a hobbyist and having all of the time that you may need or working a job where X number of parts must be produced in X period of time.

Relax and think about it, plan accordingly.

Today I turned 2 lathe parts, 9.100 diameter X 55 3/4" long from 1" wall steel tubing, I rough turned the OD chucked internally with a plug in the tail stock end.
After both were roughed I put a steady on and faced, bored and put a 10° taper on one end (the bore is for a fixture used by the plater as the last op is hard chrome).
Turned them 180° and faced to length and bored, this end  has a cap welded in it, total time 7+ hours including loading 300+ pound parts. They then have  the end cap welded in after which they go back in the lathe and the end cap is finish bored  and faced so that they may be held in a spacer on a mill, holes and slots are milled through the wall. Another part is then welded through the cross hole, the part then goes back into the lathe for the 3rd time and turned to the soon to be chromed diameter of 8.992 +0-.002 where .003 of chrome per side will make the finish diameter 8.998 +.000 -.002, overall 25 or more hours per part.

Don't worry you have all the time needed and you will eventually become accustomed to doing things in the best order possible. Experience is important yet not essential in all applications, if you do not try you will never learn, my advice is to have at it.


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## francist (Apr 8, 2016)

Something I started doing with a particularly difficult (for me) or convoluted process is jotting down a step-by-step checklist of operations. I think this might be called 'critical path' or something like that, I don't know, I just started doing it when I was behind the eight ball on woodworking projects that had to have finishing times/glue drying times factored in to my expected completion date. You know, things I might not think about taking much time but that actually do.

It's not detailed nor fancy, just a point by point list of how I envision making a particular part. I find that I'm always thinking about a project well in advance anyways, so by jotting down how I figure I'm going to do it is almost like doing mental rehearsals of all the processes. I review it, adjust the order of operations if needed, rehearse it again, etc all in my head before I even get near the machine. While I'm watching TV, having my lunch at work, whenever. It helps me to solidify what I'm going to do, how I'm going to do it, and when in the overall process I need to do it.

It's not a perfect system, and the process still stays fluid as soon as I start the work, but I find that the list does help to highlight things are maybe a bit iffy or worth having a second look about the best way to do them. And then I still screw it up, just not as bad!

-frank


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## silence dogood (Apr 8, 2016)

If it a complicated project, I usually make a prototype out of a cheaper material.  It makes it much easier to see how it goes together.  Also, I'm able to work out the sequence of operations in building it.   And last of all, many times, I see a better way of designing and building the project.


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## Jim1946 SB9" (Apr 8, 2016)

Wow thanks guys some amazing advice. I appreciate it all.


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## planeflyer21 (Apr 10, 2016)

Been there, done that.  Nothing like realizing "Boy, if I had all that metal I'd removed already I could hold the part for the last operation."

In the past when working CNC production, it was not a rare occurance to get a program for a new and untried part, only to have to send it back to engineering for rethinking.  Many times they put in a feature like a blind pocket, with only a small threaded hole for access.  

In other words, it happens at every level of machining.


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## NoobCanuk (Apr 11, 2016)

Yup I see machinists run across a lot of similar problems to carpenters.  Get plans for something only to realize it needs a bit of "tweaking" to make it work.  But yes I have discovered your guys way of doing things is what I have learned in other areas of life as well.  Sometimes you come across a problem and have to rethink your process and alter things as needed to make it work.  Lot of really great advice in this forum though.  Very intelligent well spoken people here with friendly ways of offering advice.


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## planeflyer21 (Apr 11, 2016)

My carpenter buddy was complaining about one of his coworkers on a custom home.  The guy cut a huge beam (something like 16"x8"x18') like two feet short for the space it was spanning.


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## NoobCanuk (Apr 12, 2016)

planeflyer21 said:


> My carpenter buddy was complaining about one of his coworkers on a custom home.  The guy cut a huge beam (something like 16"x8"x18') like two feet short for the space it was spanning.


Ouch.  Yeah sad to say but that happens far more frequently than most people realize.  I have tons of free windows in my garage and at my farm from those tiny mismeasurements.  One school project I worked on was a "Leeds Program" where all garbage is weighed and counts against the general contractors environmental score on the project (they have to meet a certain score or face huge penslties). Anything they remove from site that is recycled gets weighed and counted in their favor.  Glazers somehow ordered a lot of windows the wrong sizes.  So suddenly I was a hero on site when I offered to take them all to my farm to build a "greenhouse".  ended up a few guys later decided to cut rebar with an angle grinder right after several walls of glass were installed (3/4" thick glass panels between 16"wide by 8 ft tall up to about 3ft wide by 8 ft tall).  A couple microscopic pits were then discovered and I became the hero yet again when you guessed my greenhouse grew substantially larger.

So yes I see tons of those oopses.  Sadly I made far too many myself over the years but we learn from them as a way of growing.  I'm finally starting to learn though it is far better to learn from the other guys mistakes if at all possible rather than be the guy the boss uses to teach others.


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## FOMOGO (Apr 12, 2016)

If you are able to say, what exactly is that part? Great discussion here by the way. Thanks, Mike


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## Dirty Al (Apr 29, 2016)

A concept I used to drill into the heads of those I worked with was "Draw what you're going to build, then build what you drew!"  I learned (during my attendance at The School of Hard Knocks) that a few minutes with a pencil and paper and then a few more with a cup of coffee (or a soda pop) while you study your sketch can sometimes resolve what could have been an expensive and time wasting misteak...  It's not as much fun as ruining the first couple examples of your handiwork but it gets the job done!   Regardless of your planning:  Have fun in your shop and be safe!

Dirty Al


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## Billh50 (Apr 29, 2016)

I always draw things in cad and if it is something that is a complicated assembly I do it in a solid model to make sure everything fits properly.


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