# Tail stock die holder



## Aukai (Sep 16, 2019)

My adventure of threading 4 studs for course, and fine thread for my bearing retainer left a lot to be desired for getting straight threads.  Looking online there are of course a large assortment of TS die holders. I did a short search, and all of the holders I found  were for round dies, are there hex die TS holders? Brand suggestions would be helpful. Thank you


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## Cooter Brown (Sep 16, 2019)

Hex Dies are only for re-threading not for cutting threads....

Round dies are made for cutting threads....


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## Bob Korves (Sep 16, 2019)

Cooter Brown said:


> Hex Dies are only for re-threading not for cutting threads....
> 
> Round dies are made for cutting threads....


Both statements are misleading.  The first is simply not true, and the second is not inclusive of other valid uses.  The truth is that dies are made in varying external shapes, regardless of their intended uses, and with different geometry where the threads start, which can be positive rake or negative rake.  Different tool holding needs (like working in tight quarters) require different driving tools, and dies are manufactured for those needs.  No offense to you intended, Cooter.  It is a common misunderstanding that has been carried down for many decades.  It is simple, easy to remember, and incomplete.  I had the same understanding for decades, until the truth was explained to me.  The reality is more complicated...

Here is a previous posting that goes into more detail:








						Cutting Threads with a Die on a mini
					

I have told by my tool supplier that the dies with the hex OD are only to be used for repairing damaged threads!! That said you need a die made for cutting threads and of course they cost more. I needed a 1/4-20 die could not find one locally so checked McMaster $32.00 range!!!




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## darkzero (Sep 16, 2019)

I have an old small set of Craftsman taps & dies and I have used the hex dies to cut threads plenty of times without issue. I believe they were made by Vermont USA.

I'm not sure if re-threading & thread restoring is the same as I assume it is but I have a set of thread restoring taps & dies. Well they they're not actually taps & dies, I'll just call them that in this post but the taps don't look like threading taps & the dies aren't big like threading dies, more just like nuts, like the size of the hex head for a given size bolt. The restoring taps & dies also don't have large reliefs for chips to evacuate like threading taps & dies do.

This set has saved my butt many times when I worked in automotive, they're basically like a bolt or nut with grooves cut in the thread (which is what I used to do before getting this set). They'll clean and form damaged threads back into place, they won't cut as they are not sharp, unlike when you use a threading taps & dies on a damaged thread which I don't like to do.

I always had the impression that hex dies were geared more towards home & automotive use since they can be used with a wrench or socket & round dies were more for machining and production use as they usually come as split dies. But of course there are round dies that are not split. This is most likely not true, it's just what I used to think.


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## CluelessNewB (Sep 16, 2019)

I haven't seen any hex tailstock die holders for sale online nor have I ever seen one in real life.    I'm sure someone has made one but without a mill or shaper it would be difficult.  Maybe you could make one based on a 6 point socket.


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## Aukai (Sep 16, 2019)

If I need to get round dies for the TS holder I will, and the proper ones to use. My understanding is the split dies can be adjusted for thread depth, other than that I don't know dies.....


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## projectnut (Sep 16, 2019)

In the past, and even today Snap On  makes thread cutting dies in a variety of configurations as Bob  mentioned.  They make round (to be used with the standard die handle, hex shape that could be used with a 6 point (hex) socket, and even 12 point.


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## Cadillac STS (Sep 16, 2019)

I bought this set from a guy that makes the set and sells on eBay. Definitely worth it. It is high quality and works great.




I had the question about hex dies and contacted the maker. I was able to use the largest die holder and make a collar to insert. Long set screws go all the way through the collar and hold the hex die. 

Can make a round die holder that just fits and hold the hex with set screws


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## Aukai (Sep 16, 2019)

Thank you for the ideas, and pictures.


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## Cadillac STS (Sep 17, 2019)

Bob Korves said:


> Both statements are misleading.  The first is simply not true, and the second is not inclusive of other valid uses.  The truth is that dies are made in varying external shapes, regardless of their intended uses, and with different geometry where the threads start, which can be positive rake or negative rake.  Different tool holding needs (like working in tight quarters) require different driving tools, and dies are manufactured for those needs.  No offense to you intended, Cooter.  It is a common misunderstanding that has been carried down for many decades.  It is simple, easy to remember, and incomplete.  I had the same understanding for decades, until the truth was explained to me.  The reality is more complicated...
> 
> Here is a previous posting that goes into more detail:
> 
> ...



My dad had an ASE and Metric set of "Thread Chasers."  They looked like hex dies but clearly box marked Thread Chaser.  From the 50s.  Clearly made for cleaning up threads but not made for new threads.  May have been part of the confusion on that.


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## Janderso (Sep 17, 2019)

I was taught the hex were for chasing and round for cutting.
Interesting, an old wives tail then.


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## Cadillac STS (Sep 17, 2019)

Janderso said:


> I was taught the hex were for chasing and round for cutting.
> Interesting, an old wives tail then.



Probably one of those things where both statements are true but the lines on that got blurred along the way on use of the tool.  So what was taught was true and what is now use of the tools is also true.  

I wonder if the reason is making the hex dies themselves and how people were using them.  Maybe what started out as thread chasers led to guys cutting new threads with those and manufacturers just changing them so they also cut new threads?


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## Jubil (Sep 17, 2019)

I have an old Craftsman hex set also. Cut many new threads with them.
If they are just for thread chasing then why do they have the long bevel on the starting side? Not arguing just trying to learn.
Chuck


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## mmcmdl (Sep 17, 2019)

Hi Mike , got your message last night and returned one . Be back late tonight from SC , be driving 530 miles this afternoon . Had a wonderful rain free 10 days down here at Surfside Beach but it's time to get back to work  I'll be in touch about some TS die holders .  Dave


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## Capt45 (Sep 17, 2019)

I made a Hex die holder from a large socket that I cut down and inserted into the die body.  Little bit of Loctite and it's worked well.  If the Loctite fails I'll drill and tap for a set screw.


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## ezduzit (Sep 17, 2019)

Cooter Brown said:


> Hex Dies are only for re-threading not for cutting threads....
> 
> Round dies are made for cutting threads....



This is generally true. But there are exceptions.

For my lathe I have purchased two 4" 4-jaw lathe chucks which have #2 Morse taper mounts. One is a fixed mount and the other a ball bearing mount, which I use with (proper) round dies for threading by hand or starting threads. These chucks handle every size die I have.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Sep 17, 2019)

this thread has reminded me that I need to make a tap adapter for my tailstock die holder 

Here's mine, as simple as it gets










if you leave a little length on the shaft, you can also use it to push dies out of the holder when you're done





I don't use it all that often, but it is very useful when I do need it. Way faster than single point threading for conventional thread sizes. I use a mix of solid (old HF set) and split dies. If I were to use hex dies I'd simply make an adapter out of an old socket as someone posted above


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## Aukai (Sep 17, 2019)

This has been a very good learning experience for me, thank you all. No matter what, that cat is getting skinned....


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## mikey (Sep 17, 2019)

I think tailstock die holders are useful for smaller thread sizes. Once you get up to about 3/8" diameter, the problem is holding the work solid in the lathe chuck; the torque required to thread round stock gets too high and the work spins. If you are doing larger threads, at least partially screw cut it and finish it with a die. 

I figure if I'm going to partially screw cut something then I may as well fully screw cut that thing. Hence, I rarely use dies anymore.


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## bill70j (Sep 18, 2019)

Capt45 said:


> I made a Hex die holder from a large socket that I cut down and inserted into the die body.  Little bit of Loctite and it's worked well.  If the Loctite fails I'll drill and tap for a set screw.


I did something very similar.  To make a hex die adapter, I started with a $7.00 die stock off Ebay, sawed the handles off, and turned it round.  Then I made a collar to fit my 1.5" round die holder and press fit the dismembered die stock into the collar.

Here are a couple of photos showing the front, and back of the hex die adapter:

*The Front:



The Back:*



*And a die stock very similar to the one I modified to fit tailstock die holder:*


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## Iron-Iceberg (Sep 20, 2019)

Cadillac CTS, do you have a link to the vendor for those. They look really nice.
Thanks


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## Cadillac STS (Sep 20, 2019)

Iron-Iceberg said:


> Cadillac CTS, do you have a link to the vendor for those. They look really nice.
> Thanks



To be clear the Cadillac STS was the big brother to the CTS. But I haven’t had that car in years. Now I have a 2016 Cadillac ELR Performance Edition plug in electric. Got the screen name 7 years ago here and not changing...

I got the set on eBay. Search “lathe tailstock tap” and the item comes up. When I got mine it was from an American guy and I did notice over time he would show up on ebay then not be there. 

The set has been copied by a company in India for a little lower price with free shipping. 

Maybe the American machinist got priced out?  He may still show up again. 

The Indian set is likely good quality and a good buy. Lifetime quality tool.


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## Iron-Iceberg (Sep 20, 2019)

Whoops sorry on the name mistake.
I had seen the Indian ones but the chucks on your set really look nice. He doesn’t seem to be on eBay now. I’ll keep checking. Thanks


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## ezduzit (Sep 21, 2019)

Cadillac STS said:


> ...The Indian set is likely good quality and a good buy. Lifetime quality tool.



You're joking. Machined stuff from India is simply the worst I've ever seen.


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## bill70j (Sep 21, 2019)

Iron-Iceberg said:


> Cadillac CTS, do you have a link to the vendor for those. They look really nice.
> Thanks


Iron-Iceberg (Atascadero):

In lieu of buying one, you might consider making a similar tail stock die (and tap) holder. As one example,  Youtube creator Halligan142 builds one in this three part series.  Video#3 at 19:14 and at 26:23 shows all the parts and pieces of his tool.

Bill70j (Los Osos)


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## Cadillac STS (Sep 21, 2019)

The chucks I have look like cut off t-handle tap chucks good quality. 

Could make a set using a machinable mt2 blank. Put drill bits in the chuck gradually moving larger with the blank in the tail stock. Then place a length of steel rod for the slide. From there make your sliding sleeve and the die and tap head you want.


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## davidpbest (Sep 21, 2019)

Here is the version I made - complete with dimensioned drawings if someone wants to make their own.  *Go HERE.*


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## Aukai (Sep 21, 2019)

Very impressive.


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## ezduzit (Sep 21, 2019)

davidpbest said:


> Here is the version I made...



Lovely work and great photos.


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## Iron-Iceberg (Sep 21, 2019)

Yes Bill I’ve been wanting to make one for about 6 months now and just can’t get the time. Plus the chucks on those looked really clean. 
Wow David those are really great. Excellent job!


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## Cadillac STS (Sep 25, 2019)

For making your own tap and die tailstock set:

I thought of a source for the mt2 shaft that would be simple and straight.  Buy a long neck reamer on eBay and cut off the reamer head.  Leaves a nice mt2 (Or whatever taper your tailstock is) with straight shaft.  Buy that and small and large t handle taping handles for the chucks.

The rest is just a nice project on the lathe making the die holders and adapters for the tap heads, sliding body, etc..


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