# Collaboration on a 3D printed threading dial for a SouthBend 9C



## brino (Mar 15, 2018)

I have been slowly learning about 3D printing and have printed a number of useful parts, but have not printed anything that wears against another part.

I have read about printed change gears for a lathe (https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/if-you-need-gears-print-them.65634/), and was recently asked about printing a replacement gear for one that was stripped in a friends (2D) printer. So I guess I gotta learn.......

Then I read @RWanke 's post here:
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/quality-of-3d-printed-thread-dial.67790/
It looked like an interesting project.

I looked around and found an existing model here:
Thingiverse: Southbend 9c Thread indicator one piece body

So I PM'ed RWanke to see if he was interested in a "collaboration".
I would print the parts if he would give some honest feedback about how they worked out.
We came to an agreement, and will attempt this "collaboration from a distance".
We will attempt to document the endeavour for the benefit of all.

That model comprises three parts.
The body:









The dial:





...and the gear:





Stay tuned for more updates!

-brino


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## brino (Mar 15, 2018)

I already have the printer and bought a number of spools of filament on sale.
For me the cost to produce it is ridiculously low, and the knowledge is well worth the investment.

I have a spool of black PLA filament loaded. It's about CAD $45 dollars for a 1kg spool.
The three parts for the threading dial are predicted to use 71 grams of plastic.
That's about $3.20 in material. Shipping will cost more than that!
But again, I want the experience and feedback....that is valuable to me.

I printed the parts in PLA and I think it will be okay, but if that doesn't hold up I'd want to try some nylon or ABS.

Printing is not always quick, it does depend on print quality, infill rate and of course object size.
The software says it will take 7.5 hours to print this at the recommended 100% infill (solid object) with a slightly higher detail (lower than recommended layer thickness 0.14mm instead of 0.2mm).

Here's what Cura showed:





Next up some real photos!

-brino


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## brino (Mar 15, 2018)

Here it is early in the print cycle:










Closest to the camera is the gear that rides on the lead screw, then the body, then the dial itself.

I use blue painters masking tape from the local hardware store on the heated printer bed. It allows the printed object to adhere really well during printing, but also to release easily form the bed when finished. It only leaves a little tape on the object that can be scraped off with a knife.

The Thingiverse page recommended: Rafts=no, Support=yes, Resolution=0.2mm, and Infill=100%.

I decided to print with: Platform Adhesion=brim, Support=Everywhere, layer height 0.14mm and Fill Density=100%.

The "brim" gives me a thin outline of the part on the bed. That helps the part stay put, and also gives the extrusion nozzle a chance to start passing plastic before it get to the real parts.

The "support" option builds a matrix of plastic support material under any overhangs to stop the melted filament from drooping when the angles or gap is too severe. They are meant as tempoary, disposable parts that break off easily. Some of it was already starting to break away as I removed the parts from the printer bed.

Note also the difference in terms between different software packages.

Since this is a relatively long print I went to bed.

The next morning it looked like this:








All the those "columns" are the support material for the overhangs...they should snap right off.

-brino


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## brino (Mar 15, 2018)

Here they are off the print bed with the stripped support material roughly placed where it came off:









....and here are the parts without the support material:










-brino


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## brino (Mar 15, 2018)

I almost forgot......

The model I used here (linked in first post) was based on another model from here:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1306037
This second one give a little more detail about the reamer, rod size and set-screw to use for assembly.

-brino


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## Hukshawn (Mar 15, 2018)

A surprising amount of waste. I didn’t think there would be so much.


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## Hawkeye (Mar 15, 2018)

The support pieces are mostly hollow. They use very little plastic. They just form a bridge for the first horizontal layers that aren't actually on the printer bed.


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## Dave Paine (Mar 16, 2018)

Well done, the parts look good.  Finding a model on Thingiverse saves a lot of time.


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## middle.road (Mar 16, 2018)

I would have to guess that creating the model of the body took a bit of time and effort.
It's nice to be able to find a model ready to go.


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## RWanke (Mar 16, 2018)

I'm really getting fired up about this. The parts look great, at least from this great distance.  I hope I can make my part of this collaboration work as well as your end Brino.  

I was thinking of you earlier this morning while reading some info on the very expensive change gears for cutting metric threads on an inch lead screw lathe and was wondering if printed gears would be an economical alternative, even if they only lasted for a few projects. ?? Again I know nothing about 3D printing and am having a hard time wrapping my head around melting globs of plastic on top of each other and it holding together. I guess I'm having flashbacks to my younger days attempting to melt model car plastic together to form "custom" parts.


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## Dave Paine (Mar 16, 2018)

RWanke said:


> I was thinking of you earlier this morning while reading some info on the very expensive change gears for cutting metric threads on an inch lead screw lathe and was wondering if printed gears would be an economical alternative, even if they only lasted for a few projects. ?? Again I know nothing about 3D printing and am having a hard time wrapping my head around melting globs of plastic on top of each other and it holding together. I guess I'm having flashbacks to my younger days attempting to melt model car plastic together to form "custom" parts.



Brino had a link to another thread on printing change gears in his first post.

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/if-you-need-gears-print-them.65634/

MrPete222 printed some to try out.   He has the metal ones but wanted to see how the plastic version worked.

The HM thread contains a link to MrPete222 video, but for folks who want to see the video, I will repeat the link.

MrPete222 printed change gears video


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## Dave Paine (Mar 16, 2018)

Today I upgraded my extruder bracket from the original plastic to aluminium, so I had to try printing something.   I went to the model link in the initial post and printed the number dial.   I wanted to see how well the numbers came out.   Not perfect, the walls are not quite sealed with the top but useable.  This would look better if I painted in the letters.


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## brino (Mar 16, 2018)

Hukshawn said:


> A surprising amount of waste. I didn’t think there would be so much.



Shawn I did weigh the parts. Here's what I saw:

The three parts plus all the supporting material was 71 grams (2.5 oz.). (Exactly what the Cura slicer predicted!)
Without the supporting material the three parts weigh 56 grams (1.98 oz.)
So the waste material is only 15 grams (0.52 oz.).

-brino


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## brino (Mar 20, 2018)

@RWanke, I was away this past weekend, but did get the parts wrapped up and shipped out yesterday. I believe it was a "7-day" estimate. I do have a tracking number if we need it.



Dave Paine said:


> This would look better if I painted in the letters.



Great idea Dave! I could see filling the recessed digits and lines with a high-contrast paint, letting it dry, and then carefully sanding the top face flat. I bet that would look great. Maybe black or red paint for yours and white paint for the one I printed in black PLA.

-brino


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## Dave Paine (Mar 20, 2018)

The painting idea did not work out as well as desired.  I printed another dial of better quality.  I then painted the top and sanded off the surface.

The surface is not smooth due to the many layers used to fill the surface.

I would likely remove most of the letters and lines if I sanded off to remove the streaks in between.   If I had the model I would increase the depth of the numbers, but I do not have the model.


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## RWanke (Mar 20, 2018)

brino said:


> @RWanke, I was away this past weekend, but did get the parts wrapped up and shipped out yesterday. I believe it was a "7-day" estimate. I do have a tracking number of we need it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll be looking for it. Thanks Brino. I'll also turn my son loose on the dial. He's pretty handy with fine detail with a paint brush.


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## middle.road (Mar 20, 2018)

We could try doing up the model in Fusion360, and using a different font that would be more detailed and pronounced.
Here's another pict of one I stumbled on over @Thingiverse. Fonts didn't come out well.
Need to go at least .050" deep I believe.

EDIT: or perhaps reverse them... https://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-9C-Metal-Lathe-Thread-Dial-3D-Printed-Kit-New-/182982078435

EDIT-EDIT: Can anyone get me the OD of this dial? I'm looking around for dimensions but have come up empty.

((this is really, really making me want to fire up the printer I've laying in the shop...))


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## RWanke (Mar 21, 2018)

I was telling my nephew about this collaboration (as he is itching to own a printer). He sent me a text with an interesting link that addresses strengthening PLA printed parts by annealing them in a heated bath. Might be something to try.

https://3dprinting.com/filament/engineer-reveals-easy-way-strengthen-pla-annealing-heat-bath/


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## brino (Mar 21, 2018)

RWanke said:


> He sent me a text with an interesting link that addresses strengthening PLA printed parts by annealing them in a heated bath. Might be something to try.



Thanks for the link. That is interesting.

It would be great to try some controlled experiments of printing several identical objects, going thru the strengthening process, and destructively testing and comparing the parts. My only problem is lack of time.

For this project the part I am most concerned with is the gear. It will be running against the steel lead screw, but it is very low torque.
If you find it does wear quickly just let me know, I've been looking for a reason to try printing ABS and nylon.

-brino


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## RWanke (Mar 21, 2018)

My concerns too and the reason for my original thread. He also mentioned an article on reinforcing with some type of resin or polymer or such. We shall see how it all works out.


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## middle.road (Mar 21, 2018)

brino said:


> Thanks for the link. That is interesting.
> 
> It would be great to try some controlled experiments of printing several identical objects, going thru the strengthening process, and destructively testing and comparing the parts. My only problem is lack of time.
> 
> ...


I do believe that most nylons swell when they come into contact with oil. IIRC. YMMV.


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## Hawkeye (Mar 21, 2018)

I've read information on doing the annealing dry in an oven of about the same temperature. Since most plastics absorb water, sometimes to their hurt, I'd like to see a comparative treatment with similar pieces done dry and wet, then tested to destruction.


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## ebolton (Mar 22, 2018)

middle.road said:


> We could try doing up the model in Fusion360, and using a different font that would be more detailed and pronounced.
> Here's another pict of one I stumbled on over @Thingiverse. Fonts didn't come out well.
> Need to go at least .050" deep I believe.
> 
> ...



For lettering on a 3D printed model, .050 deep should be good. One thing I've found that helps is adding a few degrees of draft to the letters.  In CAD, set the neutral plane at the bottom of the letters and draft the surfaces out. Different CAD systems, of course, use different terminology... You might have do do a couple of draft features to get them all. It's a good idea to use individual draft features on each character, anyway, since draft features are notorious for blowing up when you try to add the last surface. That can be pretty frustrating if the last surface in on the 10th letter you are drafting. In some CAD systems, you can extrude features, including text, with a taper. That does the same thing as the draft but it's a lot easier. I don't know Fusion 360 to know what is possible there, though.

-Ed


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## Dave Paine (Mar 22, 2018)

middle.road said:


> EDIT-EDIT: Can anyone get me the OD of this dial? I'm looking around for dimensions but have come up empty.
> 
> ((this is really, really making me want to fire up the printer I've laying in the shop...))



My slicing software says the dial I printed is 25mm dia, so perhaps the dial is 1in (25.4mm)


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## RWanke (Mar 26, 2018)

Got the thread dial in the mail today. Looks cool as all get out. My wife was even fascinated that you can make something like that by printing it. Anxious to get started on it. Gear looks like it meshes with the lead screw real well. I still have a week or so of work to get the lathe back together so it might be a while to report on the dials actual use (old boss called and needed me to come in and do some machining for him). I hope to do a write up on how I fit it together. If you would Brino, please PM me your mailing address. I have a little gift I want to send you and can't read the address off the package you sent very well and want to make sure I get it right.


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## brino (Mar 26, 2018)

RWanke said:


> Got the thread dial in the mail today.





RWanke said:


> Gear looks like it meshes with the lead screw real well.



Glad to hear that.



RWanke said:


> I still have a week or so of work to get the lathe back together so it might be a while to report on the dials actual use (old boss called and needed me to come in and do some machining for him). I hope to do a write up on how I fit it together.



No rush. I'd appreciate any feedback....positive or negative.
.....and remember if you find the PLA plastic wears too quick I have ABS and nylon in stock.
This is a learning opportunity for both of us!



RWanke said:


> If you would Brino, please PM me your mailing address.



PM sent.

Thanks!
-brino


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## middle.road (Mar 27, 2018)

That itch to get mine up and running is getting worse & worser-er-er.


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## whitmore (Mar 27, 2018)

Dave Paine said:


> The painting idea did not work out as well as desired.  I printed another dial of better quality.  I then painted the top and sanded off the surface.
> 
> The surface is not smooth due to the many layers used to fill the surface.
> 
> I would likely remove most of the letters and lines if I sanded off to remove the streaks in between.   If I had the model I would increase the depth of the numbers, but I do not have the model.



One approach is to use a thin paint (which is transparent in small thicknesses), and apply excess, then press the face
against a flat to squeeze thin the part that isn't in the grooves.   Maybe mix epoxy with black pigment, and clamp
against glass which has been oiled with silicone?   This is giving me ideas... an old shaft graduation could be so treated,
and the squeeze-out could be accomplished with an application of heat-shrink tubing: nothing inside the
grooves would be disturbed.


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## Norseman C.B. (Mar 28, 2018)

Are you looking to do mold patterns as well  ??


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## f350ca (Mar 28, 2018)

Brino, stop posting stuff like this, your making me want a printer. lol
Well done !

Greg


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## brino (Mar 28, 2018)

Norseman C.B. said:


> Are you looking to do mold patterns as well ??



Is that aimed at me?

If so, what do you have in mind? Patterns for green-sand casting? Patterns for "lost-plastic" casting?
What rough sizes? Do 3D models already exist for the patterns?
What kinds of scaling (for metal shrinkage) and drafts are required?
It sounds interesting.......

-brino


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## Norseman C.B. (Mar 30, 2018)

Sorry for the delay on response Brino, but yes, I am doing some sand casting experiments with my homemade foundry set up
and was curious about the possibilities for making patterns.
I was thinking about split molds, as in printing up half of each side and locating them on a center board aligned properly for ramming up the 3d pattern in sand like the case for a power file or such, I can make patterns out of wood in the old school  style but this looks to be an easier way labor wise but at this time out of reach for me financially. as for shrinkage specs There are charts for calcs. by type of metal used and also for draft angles, my old foundrymans manual seems to be hiding from me at this time.
I haven't tried lost plastic molding or wax and Styrofoam yet but it is finally getting warm enough to work the sand out in the shop
so I will be squeezing in some casting time in with the forging and machine work, as well as the gardening, seems like I'm doing more work since I retired then I did when I was employed ...........


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## Dave Paine (Apr 22, 2018)

MrPete has two videos on printing extra large dial for his Atlas lathe.    In the second video around the 2min 40sec mark he mentions how he coloured the lines.   The solution was silicone.   Very interesting.   I will have to try this.


MrPete222 large dials for Atlas lathe


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## RWanke (May 14, 2018)

OK. I finally got all the hardware I needed to go ahead and put the thread dial that Brino printed up for me together. Keep in mind nobody has ever accused me of under-building anything as I have a tendency to go a little overboard and possibly overthink things sometimes. 

So I started this project by running a 5/16" reamer through the main body of the printed thread dial to clean the hole up and smooth it out. I don't know what size the printed hole was supposed to be but it worked out as though it was meant to be reamed 5/16". Simple operation on the drill press. I bought a 3' stick of 5/16" 12L14 and it was a tight fit in the reamed hole so I chucked the rod in the lathe and started working it down with some 220 grit sand paper. Got a real good fit.

Next piece was the attachment between the carriage and the thread dial. I am a little leary of the strength of the plastic holding enough tension with a set screw so I drilled and tapped all the way through the boss and pin to make sure that the dial should not be able to easily rotate (like I said, I overthink this stuff).






I had the same concern on attaching the gear to the shaft so it too was drilled and tapped all the way through to make sure it couldn't slip on the shaft. I also did not ream the ID of the gear or the dial itself but instead turned down each end of the shaft to make a tight fit on the gear and a not as tight slip fit on the dial. The dial end of the shaft got a flat filed in it for a set screw. I figured there is no strain on the dial so a set screw should be very adequate for that end and it gives me a little end play adjustment for the whole assembly. As for the dial part I had to turn the OD down a few thousandths because it fit pretty tight in the housing. I just put it on the shaft and tightened the set screw then set the compound to approximate the angle of the edge of the dial (it's actually a little curved but the angle worked fine) dialed it in in the 4 jaw and took a pass off it.





I chucked the body of the dial in the 4 jaw and used a boring bar to clean up the inside of the bottom of the housing where the gear rides. The printing was rough here from the support material that gets removed after printing.


Final assembly and adjustment and it seems to work so far. I'll change some gears, grind a tool bit and try to do some actual threading tommorow and report back. Gear engagement looks pretty good.




Again many thanks to Brino for printing and sending me the parts. I will probably paint the body to match the lathe (although the black doesn't look to bad) and paint in the numbers and lines.


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## brino (May 14, 2018)

RWanke said:


> Keep in mind nobody has ever accused me of under-building anything as I have a tendency to go a little overboard and possibly overthink things sometimes.



There's nothing wrong with doing things well!
It looks really good.

The angle of your last picture with it installed shows the numbers and lines really well.....better than I remember when looking straight on.
Have you figured a way to try a high-contrast paint on the letters and lines?

Remember if the PLA wears we can try again in ABS......in fact I just got some grey ABS filament that might match the lathe better.

-brino


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## RWanke (May 14, 2018)

I was actually thinking of cutting/grinding a tool to widen and deepen the grooves a little (do a little engraving) then see what I can do with painting them.

I originally planned to put a brass "thrust washer/bearing" under the gear but taking a pass with the boring bar smoothed the body up enough that I think it will do fine. I thought that maybe the plastic might create enough friction to cause a problem but I don't think it will be turning fast enough to matter.


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## Dave Paine (May 15, 2018)

MrPete has a video where the fellow who created the 3D files for carriage dials suggested using white silicone caulk to fill in the lines.   MrPete tried this and found it worked the best.    The excess wiped off the dials better than paint.


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## Silverbullet (May 15, 2018)

I'd like a set of dials but sounds pretty hard when YA don't have a fancy plastic squirt gun machine. Yes I know it's program like cnc. More things I never got into doing . Looks like nice alternative if your lathe don't have a threading gage . Good job it turned out really well.


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## ttabbal (May 15, 2018)

Silverbullet said:


> I'd like a set of dials but sounds pretty hard when YA don't have a fancy plastic squirt gun machine. Yes I know it's program like cnc. More things I never got into doing . Looks like nice alternative if your lathe don't have a threading gage . Good job it turned out really well.




If you have designs already made, various people are willing to print them for you. You would need to provide STL files from thingiverse etc. or a CAD file in some cases might work. Almost any 3D CAD will export an STL these days though and any printer user will know what to do with them. So you don't need your own fancy plastic squirt gun if you don't want to get one.


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## RWanke (May 17, 2018)

Played with the thread dial this evening and found a little mistake I made. The flat I put in the shaft for the dial should have been "indexed" to the lead screw. I find that I do not engage right on the numbers or lines. It engages either right before the line or right after (about the thickness of the line away). I think I can just refile the flat a little further around the shaft to fix this. Should have assembled and checked the engagement before I just randomly filed. Wasn't really thinking about it.


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## brino (May 18, 2018)

RWanke said:


> I find that I do not engage right on the numbers or lines. It engages either right before the line or right after (about the thickness of the line away).



That's exactly how mine works.....and I believe it is factory original.
-brino


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## Hawkeye (May 19, 2018)

When I made a thread dial for my Swedish lathe, the gear was attached to the shaft by a nut on the end and no key. Line up the marks with the gear engaged, tighten the nut and you're good to go. It hasn't slipped yet.


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## RWanke (Jun 4, 2019)

Resurrecting an old thread but finally got around to making an actual threaded part using your thread dial Brino. I made a plug gauge to match my lathe spindle to help gauge the internal threads I plan on cutting on the ER-40 collet chuck I'm going to attempt. Thread dial performed flawlessly. I never did "highlight" the numbers or lines on the dial as I have had no problem reading them as is. Thanks again Brino for what would have otherwise been a very expensive factory original part to buy.


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## brino (Jun 4, 2019)

@RWanke,

Great! I am very glad to hear it works for you.
Thanks for the feedback.

-brino


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## rgray (Jun 5, 2019)

Printed parts I have painted soak paint in like a sponge. That makes having a crisp line imposible.
To get around this I clear coat first and let it soak it up till there is a layer of paint on the surface.
Once that's dry, painting on the clear coat layer goes normal and crisp lines can be made.


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## rgray (Jun 5, 2019)

Also wanted to mention "Wax filament" for casting. https://www.machinablewax.com/ 
looks very interesting and would be much better than lost pla casting.
Sounds like it prints nice also. I haven't gotten any yet but it's on my radar.


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## frankly2 (Jul 6, 2021)

Can any one of you gentlemen provide the specs for the gear. I would like to make my own in brass but do not have a gear to copy.


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## brino (Jul 6, 2021)

frankly2 said:


> Can any one of you gentlemen provide the specs for the gear. I would like to make my own in brass but do not have a gear to copy.



I will try to help.

The original model came from here:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1306037

........but all they say is:


> The lathe  has a 3/4 8 TPI acme leadscrew, the chaser gear has 32 teeth.



You could download the model and open it in any CAD program that supports opening *.stl files.
I use:





from here:
https://www.3d-tool.com/en-cad-viewer-download.htm
.......but it looks like the new free version is only has a two week trial period.

It gives you the ability to measure the stl model.

Here's what I get:






That's 34.360mm across the top of the teeth, and 30mm across at the root.

The teeth are NOT 90 degrees to the flat end of the gear:






The toothed part is 10mm thick:





I hope that helps!

-brino


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