# Things are expensive



## Janderso (Jun 27, 2022)

I paid $7.09 for premium fuel a couple days ago. This was in Crescent City, Ca.

Yesterday I was tasked to buy ice and some peppers. An Anahiem pepper was $4.00 at Ray’s market in Bandon OR.

What’s happening?

We just retired. You know, fixed income and all.
Scares the hell out of me.


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## Just for fun (Jun 27, 2022)

We can only hope that things will get better!


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## markba633csi (Jun 27, 2022)

Oh, you want a great view AND low prices?  LOL


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## NCjeeper (Jun 27, 2022)

Ouch. 87 octane is $4.49 here right now.


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## mmcmdl (Jun 27, 2022)

Great pic Jeff ! As far as prices .................................my wife retired last month but hasn't recieved any SS or pension checks yet . I haven't made a dime for 3 months now . I just wrote a large check to work for all of the equipment I purchased . It's painful I know , but things will hopefully get better soon . Enjoy the time you have my friend , we just never know .


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## Nutfarmer (Jun 27, 2022)

I here you. I have all ready went through my entire year’s budget for the farm and the year is only half over.


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## mmcmdl (Jun 27, 2022)

Nutfarmer said:


> I here you. I have all ready went through my entire year’s budget for the farm and the year is only half over.


I"ve often wondered how the farmers make it .


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## matthewsx (Jun 27, 2022)

One thing that we have going for us is we know how to fix stuff....


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## Larry$ (Jun 27, 2022)

If you increase the # of $ each one is worth that much less. Guess who increased the # of $s. 
Don't hold $s. Physical assets will rise in value at similar rates as the decline in currency (longer term.)


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## mmcmdl (Jun 27, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> One thing that we have going for us is we know how to fix stuff....


And make stuff ! My machines aren't even hooked up yet and work is telling me they have more work than I could handle . Everywhere is all cnc these days . Not good for one off jobs when taking in programming time then running a single part . We on here will be ok , they'll be plenty of work to go around if wanted .


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## Nutfarmer (Jun 27, 2022)

The farms that are payed for and don’t have any debt should be ok. It’s a strange business. I will deliver the nuts to a broker processor in October. They take full title to the crop with no payment. Then 6 to 8 months later after they have sold out, they figure out what they want to pay you.


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## C-Bag (Jun 27, 2022)

Nutfarmer said:


> The farms that are payed for and don’t have any debt should be ok. It’s a strange business. I will deliver the nuts to a broker processor in October. They take full title to the crop with no payment. Then 6 to 8 months later after they have sold out, they figure out what they want to pay you.


That is just plain ‘ol nuts, pun intended.

 A good buddy of mine bought a small walnut grove on the westside when life got too crazy in Modesto. He had never run into this style of doing biz before being a tech guy. He had a bumper crop but they said the nuts were “sunburned“ and were darker than usual. They tasted sweeter and had none of that bitter aftertaste that walnuts usually had and wanted him to pay them to get rid of them! Needless to say he only lasted 1 season but ended up selling for a profit. Guy just can’t lose $$ no matter what he does but definitely ruled farming out from there on.


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## Aukai (Jun 27, 2022)

Jeff are you pulling a trailer?


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## Nutfarmer (Jun 27, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> That is just plain ‘ol nuts, pun intended.
> 
> A good buddy of mine bought a small walnut grove on the westside when life got too crazy in Modesto. He had never run into this style of doing biz before being a tech guy. He had a bumper crop but they said the nuts were “sunburned“ and were darker than usual. They tasted sweeter and had none of that bitter aftertaste that walnuts usually had and wanted him to pay them to get rid of them! Needless to say he only lasted 1 season but ended up selling for a profit. Guy just can’t lose $$ no matter what he does but definitely ruled farming out from there on.


The smaller farmer are taken advantage of. One year a well known broker just decided he was only going to pay the smaller farms about half price. If that is not enough they try to play games with the grading as you described.


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## stupoty (Jun 27, 2022)

Time to get into a little gardening 

Stu


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## C-Bag (Jun 27, 2022)

Nutfarmer said:


> The smaller farmer are taken advantage of. One year a well known broker just decided he was only going to pay the smaller farms about half price. If that is not enough they try to play games with the grading as you described.


My grandparents were both farmers. My dad's were Portuguese dairymen, and my mom's an Okie row cropper in Dos Palos. They did ok because compared to the Depression and the Dust Bowl everything else was a breeze. Talk about tough, my Okie grandpa hopped a freight car to CA during the Dust Bowl. You never wanted to complain to him about how hard work was. He'd just give you that stare that would loosen your bowels and tell you how lucky you were to have a job. I learned self reliance and not tossing stuff from them.


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## markba633csi (Jun 27, 2022)

CNC farming- just sit back and let the machines do the work, while you sit on the porch with a mai-tai


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## stupoty (Jun 27, 2022)

markba633csi said:


> CNC farming- just sit back and let the machines do the work, while you sit on the porch with a mai-tai


My brother bought a 1890's treadle lathe of a fella with a robot mower over the weekend , he said it was awesome (mower awesome, my brother said lathe awesome, both correct  ).

Stu


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## graham-xrf (Jun 27, 2022)

Janderso said:


> I paid $7.09 for premium fuel a couple days ago. This was in Crescent City, Ca.
> 
> Yesterday I was tasked to buy ice and some peppers. An Anahiem pepper was $4.00 at Ray’s market in Bandon OR.
> 
> ...


Jeff - the price of diesel fuel in UK, converted to US gallon size, and currency, has been more than $7 per gallon for some time now. Since Ukraine war shenanigans, it's now up to $9 a gallon.


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## graham-xrf (Jun 27, 2022)

markba633csi said:


> CNC farming- just sit back and let the machines do the work, while you sit on the porch with a mai-tai


The cultural schism always catches me out. Do tell what is a "mai-tai" ?


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## pdentrem (Jun 27, 2022)

We are seeing $2.00 a liter for regular and 2.25 for diesel. So that is $6.10 USD for US Gallon and $6.80 for diesel. Everything has gone up and now with the interest rate going up houses are flatlined or down from their highs.


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## Winegrower (Jun 27, 2022)

The other day I stopped at our local station because premium was about $0.20 a gallon less than the Chevron a couple blicks away.  And, the local guy pumps the gas.  I told him there were two things I never thought I would say:  First is “Gas is six dollars a gallon!”    Second is “And that’s a great price!”


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## mmcmdl (Jun 27, 2022)

Diesel was $6 a gallon and is now $5.65 after Md. took the tax off of it . The truck gets 10 mpg , towing or not . Put $125 in the other day and it brought me up to almost 3/4s tank .   Burned it up moving equipment this week . My little Honda takes $60 to fill now , but it gets 38 mpg . It's my beater vehicle .


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## matthewsx (Jun 27, 2022)

graham-xrf said:


> The cultural schism always catches me out. Do tell what is a "mai-tai" ?



You don't have cocktails where you live?





John


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## C-Bag (Jun 27, 2022)

Yeah, none of it makes sense except just plain ‘ol greed. Last time oil was $115 a barrel gas was $3 something. Meanwhile the media just echoes “the highest inflation in 40yrs!” but forget the second half of the phrase “highest corporate profits in 70yrs!” Guess that wouldn’t make the owner class too happy.


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## matthewsx (Jun 27, 2022)

graham-xrf said:


> Jeff - the price of diesel fuel in UK, converted to US gallon size, and currency, has been more than $7 per gallon for some time now. Since Ukraine war shenanigans, it's now up to $9 a gallon.



My dad was a chemical engineer and he explained to me how petroleum was a valuable resource needed for medicines and many other things. He was also a car guy and private pilot.

Prices for all commodities are regulated by supply and demand unless they are being subsidized, I don't like paying more but we're probably just closing in on the actual prices we should be paying.

John


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## mmcmdl (Jun 27, 2022)

I just listen to this , and believe it to be true . 



			a country boy will survive - Google Search


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## matthewsx (Jun 27, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> Yeah, none of it makes sense except just plain ‘ol greed. Last time oil was $115 a barrel gas was $3 something. Meanwhile the media just echoes “the highest inflation in 40yrs!” but forget the second half of the phrase “highest corporate profits in 70yrs!” Guess that wouldn’t make the owner class too happy.



Don't want to get into politics here. This is an AP article about what's fueling inflation that you might find interesting:









						Did corporate greed fuel inflation? It's not biggest culprit
					

WASHINGTON (AP) — Furious about surging prices at the gasoline station and the supermarket, many consumers feel they know just where to cast blame: On greedy companies that relentlessly jack up prices and pocket the profits.




					apnews.com


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## WobblyHand (Jun 27, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> My dad was a chemical engineer and he explained to me how petroleum was a valuable resource needed for medicines and many other things. He was also a car guy and private pilot.
> 
> Prices for all commodities are regulated by supply and demand unless they are being subsidized, I don't like paying more but we're probably just closing in on the actual prices we should be paying.
> 
> John


Without falling into a political quagmire, it is also important to acknowledge that energy, and oil are controlled by by relatively few large companies and organizations, including a cartel.  Cartels, and big players tend to make their own rules, _because they can_.  Yes, they can be influenced by world events like everyone else, but they can also manipulate supply for their own benefit.  This is different from many other businesses.


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## matthewsx (Jun 27, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Without falling into a political quagmire, it is also important to acknowledge that energy, and oil are controlled by by relatively few large companies and organizations, including a cartel.  Cartels, and big players tend to make their own rules, _because they can_.  Yes, they can be influenced by world events like everyone else, but they can also manipulate supply for their own benefit.  This is different from many other businesses.


I know a cherry farmer who belongs to a cartel. He explained how they got together and set prices for all the growers and I was amazed that what he described was legal, it sure wouldn't have been for my business. But they had the power and got laws passed to make it happen.

Every time the farmers in our area dump cherries it causes massive fruit fly swarms and outrage from locals who don't understand what's going on.

John


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## Aaron_W (Jun 27, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> My grandparents were both farmers. My dad's were Portuguese dairymen, and my mom's an Okie row cropper in Dos Palos. They did ok because compared to the Depression and the Dust Bowl everything else was a breeze. Talk about tough, my Okie grandpa hopped a freight car to CA during the Dust Bowl. You never wanted to complain to him about how hard work was. He'd just give you that stare that would loosen your bowels and tell you how lucky you were to have a job. I learned self reliance and not tossing stuff from them.



My Great Grandfather on my Dad's side came to California from Oklahoma during the Dustbowl years. He was what today would probably be referred to as a Coyote. He got a job delivering a bunch of new Buicks to California, so rounded up friends and family to drive the cars, then brought the cars to California packed with people. If you've seen the Grapes of Wrath in the 1930s Dust Bowl residents were looked on much as those south of the border are today, so rolling into the state in new Buicks instead of Beverly Hillbillies style got them past roadblocks trying to keep the Okies out. 



WobblyHand said:


> Without falling into a political quagmire, it is also important to acknowledge that energy, and oil are controlled by by relatively few large companies and organizations, including a cartel.  Cartels, and big players tend to make their own rules, _because they can_.  Yes, they can be influenced by world events like everyone else, but they can also manipulate supply for their own benefit.  This is different from many other businesses.



This is a problem with most everything. A handful of companies in each industry dominate so there is little real competition and any disruption in production from one of these corporations results in massive supply disruptions as seen with the baby formula fiasco, where there are only three major producers in the US.


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## C-Bag (Jun 27, 2022)

For me the mechanic in me is always trying to figure out how something works. Often things are obscured by technical terms and then the added taboos of seen as political and it seems to add to the “don’t look at that guy behind the curtain “ type of world we live in. Then add to that the recent ultimate bugaboo, conspiracy theory.  I’ve always hated politics and economics so was handicapped. 

Now mods don’t worry, I’m not going to go to the dark side and start slinging muck. 

But it’s gotten even harder to understand as there are just so many “truth” merchants out there. I try and take in as many sober views as possible without falling into the black hole that it takes to be “certain“ these days. So I appreciate how this thread has gone so far. Jus’ sayin.


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## Aaron_W (Jun 27, 2022)

Winegrower said:


> The other day I stopped at our local station because premium was about $0.20 a gallon less than the Chevron a couple blicks away.  And, the local guy pumps the gas.  I told him there were two things I never thought I would say:  First is “Gas is six dollars a gallon!”    Second is “And that’s a great price!”



Yeah, I was pretty stoked last week when gas at Costco was down to $5.87 from $6.17 the week before. So thankful that I get paid mileage when I work.


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## Aaron_W (Jun 27, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> For me the mechanic in me is always trying to figure out how something works. Often things are obscured by technical terms and then the added taboos of seen as political and it seems to add to the “don’t look at that guy behind the curtain “ type of world we live in. Then add to that the recent ultimate bugaboo, conspiracy theory.  I’ve always hated politics and economics so was handicapped.
> 
> Now mods don’t worry, I’m not going to go to the dark side and start slinging muck.
> 
> But it’s gotten even harder to understand as there are just so many “truth” merchants out there. I try and take in as many sober views as possible without falling into the black hole that it takes to be “certain“ these days. So I appreciate how this thread has gone so far. Jus’ sayin.



I'm not sure how the conspiracy theorists are making it today with the cost of aluminum foil.


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## WobblyHand (Jun 27, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> For me the mechanic in me is always trying to figure out how something works. Often things are obscured by technical terms and then the added taboos of seen as political and it seems to add to the “don’t look at that guy behind the curtain “ type of world we live in. Then add to that the recent ultimate bugaboo, conspiracy theory.  I’ve always hated politics and economics so was handicapped.
> 
> Now mods don’t worry, I’m not going to go to the dark side and start slinging muck.
> 
> But it’s gotten even harder to understand as there are just so many “truth” merchants out there. I try and take in as many sober views as possible without falling into the black hole that it takes to be “certain“ these days. So I appreciate how this thread has gone so far. Jus’ sayin.


I'm not jumping in, nor turning to the dark side either.  I appreciate your comments.  It's tough these days.  Seems like "we" are being manipulated, in various ways.  Wish it weren't so.  But, can't say this is a new phenomonon either.  Market manipulation has been rather common over the years, decades, centuries, millennia...


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## jeffkash (Jun 27, 2022)

Aaron_W said:


> Yeah, I was pretty stoked last week when gas at Costco was down to $5.87 from $6.17 the week before. So thankful that I get paid mileage when I work.


Got gas at Costco this morning in Woodstock, GA $3.99 a gallon for regular!


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## Beckerkumm (Jun 27, 2022)

Farm input costs are 20-30% higher this year ( I do a lot of accounting for farmers ) so food prices will not go down soon.  The economy is energy based so inflation will stay for an extended period as well.  It is easy to blame corporations for being greedy and forget many were losing money in 2020 and into 2021.  If I sold Widjets at a loss in 2020 and they were now in short supply, I would not sell them for less than the market would bear, particularly if the government told me they were going to replace my widjets with  something else as soon as possible and erode the value of my investment.  Historically, inflation is cured with a recession so don't expect an easy fix.  Dave


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## woodchucker (Jun 27, 2022)

it's all related to greed. Talk to the oil companies. They are the beginning of the problem.
Not the only problem, but a super large part. Look at their profits. They on the other hand are telling you to look elsewhere, there's nothing here. This is politically motivated and greed motivated.


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## woodchucker (Jun 27, 2022)

jeffkash said:


> Got gas at Costco this morning in Woodstock, GA $3.99 a gallon for regular!


NJ just  allowed Costco to pull out of the general gas pool. In NJ up until 2 weeks ago, you could not have a company privately selling to a smaller group. Costco asked to be exempt and they allowed them. so for us gas shot up quite a bit. they were cheaper than everyone else.  That's how our state legislators work to protect the people.. They screw them over.


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## matthewsx (Jun 27, 2022)

Here's how I get save money on commuting, company test rider program. Never needs gas ever, if I need to top up it just uses that little grey cable on the table in front of it. Otherwise I just plug it in when I drop it off in the morning at prototype & test.




John


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## pdentrem (Jun 27, 2022)

One thing I found of interest, is that only about 20% of crude oil goes to transportation. Think about that 80% and it’s effects!
Pierre


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## jeffkash (Jun 27, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> NJ just  allowed Costco to pull out of the general gas pool. In NJ up until 2 weeks ago, you could not have a company privately selling to a smaller group. Costco asked to be exempt and they allowed them. so for us gas shot up quite a bit. they were cheaper than everyone else.  That's how our state legislators work to protect the people.. They screw them over.


I pay a yearly membership fee for Costco. This entitles me to shop there. Why should non members also benefit from the reduced prices?


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## FOMOGO (Jun 27, 2022)

News is not what it once was, the AP included.
The AP is owned by its contributing newspapers and radio and television stations in the United States, all of which contribute stories to the AP and use material written by its staff journalists. Most of the AP staff are union members and are represented by the Newspaper Guild, which operates under the Communications Workers of America, which operates under the AFL–CIO.”

"For decades the media has fallen under the ownership of a few corporations who through their editorial control have created a socially engineered construct which represents a fabricated version of reality. In order to maintain this artificial illusion the media exercises a program of censorship of all news and events of importance and replaces the truth with lies, distortion, distraction and omission. The media thereby create a false version of reality in order to keep the public compliant and controlled."

I tend to go with my grandfathers advice. "Don't believe anything you read, or hear, and only half of what you see."



matthewsx said:


> not get into politics here. This is an AP article about what's fueling inflation that you might find interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## woodchucker (Jun 27, 2022)

jeffkash said:


> I pay a yearly membership fee for Costco. This entitles me to shop there. Why should non members also benefit from the reduced prices?


that's what NJ required of gas retailers... no private groups.
What's surprising is that they didn't even raise an eyebrow and just did it.


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## woodchucker (Jun 27, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> Here's how I get save money on commuting, company test rider program. Never needs gas ever, if I need to top up it just uses that little grey cable on the table in front of it. Otherwise I just plug it in when I drop it off in the morning at prototype & test.
> 
> View attachment 411828
> 
> ...


can't see much of it... More?


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## matthewsx (Jun 27, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> can't see much of it... More?







__





						Zero Motorcycles
					

Website for Zero Motorcycles




					www.zeromotorcycles.com


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## woodchucker (Jun 27, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> But it’s gotten even harder to understand as there are just so many “truth” merchants out there.


yep, peddling what they want you to believe. none of it truth.. some not a even a slice of truth.
And that just compounds the problem.


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## pontiac428 (Jun 27, 2022)

I lost $130,000 to the FUBAR exchange rate this month after selling off my house in Europe and moving the money to the US.  Every time the exchange rate dropped a penny out of my favor, I lost over $3,000.  All I can do is appreciate what I've gained, and try not to think about what I expected to gain before COVID.


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## Janderso (Jun 27, 2022)

Larry$ said:


> If you increase the # of $ each one is worth that much less. Guess who increased the # of $s.
> Don't hold $s. Physical assets will rise in value at similar rates as the decline in currency (longer term.)


If you can somehow make 5% you are only losing 3-5% per year.
I know, don’t hold cash, I get it but if you want liquidity you are limited.
At least I don’t know any solutions other than invest well and hang on to it.


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## Janderso (Jun 27, 2022)

Aukai said:


> Jeff are you pulling a trailer?


Yes.
We are staying at a Hip Camp, for two nights.
It’s windy and about 60 degrees.
Back home it’s 104.

Then on to the Astoria area for some history. Fort Clatsop I believe they called it.
Lewis and Clarke museums


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## matthewsx (Jun 27, 2022)

Janderso said:


> Yes.
> We are staying at a Hip Camp, for two nights.
> It’s windy and about 60 degrees.
> Back home it’s 104.
> ...


Worth every penny


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## Jeff.64 (Jun 27, 2022)

FOMOGO said:


> News is not what it once was, the AP included.
> The AP is owned by its contributing newspapers and radio and television stations in the United States, all of which contribute stories to the AP and use material written by its staff journalists. Most of the AP staff are union members and are represented by the Newspaper Guild, which operates under the Communications Workers of America, which operates under the AFL–CIO.”
> 
> "For decades the media has fallen under the ownership of a few corporations who through their editorial control have created a socially engineered construct which represents a fabricated version of reality. In order to maintain this artificial illusion the media exercises a program of censorship of all news and events of importance and replaces the truth with lies, distortion, distraction and omission. The media thereby create a false version of reality in order to keep the public compliant and controlled."
> ...


Reminds me of a saying from Twain, maybe, "If you don't read the newspaper you're uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper, you're misinformed."


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## Janderso (Jun 27, 2022)

Jeff.64 said:


> Reminds me of a saying from Twain, maybe, "If you don't read the newspaper you're uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper, you're misinformed."


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## Janderso (Jun 27, 2022)

jeffkash said:


> Got gas at Costco this morning in Woodstock, GA $3.99 a gallon for regular!


Road Trip


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## Larry$ (Jun 27, 2022)

I bought an electric bike about a year ago. Its 22 miles round trip to my shop. Bike will go 40+ miles on a charge if I am pedaling to help. Good exercise! Gone 1800+ miles so far.


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## mmcmdl (Jun 27, 2022)

Myrtle Beach / Surfside Beach SC is always the cheapest gas I've ever seen . Usually at least a buck a gallon cheaper than in Md . Must be something about the southern states .


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## Aaron_W (Jun 27, 2022)

Janderso said:


> Yes.
> We are staying at a Hip Camp, for two nights.
> It’s windy and about 60 degrees.
> Back home it’s 104.
> ...



Enjoy your trip, I went to Astoria in the 80s seemed like a neat town. Maybe I'll go back sometime.

We took my younger son to the beach at Big River State Park near Mendocino last week, he had a blast playing in the waves and building sand castles.


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## C-Bag (Jun 27, 2022)

FOMOGO said:


> News is not what it once was, the AP included.
> The AP is owned by its contributing newspapers and radio and television stations in the United States, all of which contribute stories to the AP and use material written by its staff journalists. Most of the AP staff are union members and are represented by the Newspaper Guild, which operates under the Communications Workers of America, which operates under the AFL–CIO.”
> 
> "For decades the media has fallen under the ownership of a few corporations who through their editorial control have created a socially engineered construct which represents a fabricated version of reality. In order to maintain this artificial illusion the media exercises a program of censorship of all news and events of importance and replaces the truth with lies, distortion, distraction and omission. The media thereby create a false version of reality in order to keep the public compliant and controlled."
> ...


I guess I got a big dose of the news ain’t what it’s cracked up to be early in life. My mom was the first female reporter in the little hometown newspaper The Sunstar. As with her and all her siblings she had to it better than anybody and lived, breathed and ate her job. She had the city council and police/highway patrol beats. It was a constant battle over what the story was she turned in and what was edited out. Being a teenager with a different focus I just mostly remember her frustration. Especially with the dirt that was going on in city politics. It was so bad she was paranoid.

 I got a direct dose when I was desperate for a summer job and took the assistant proofreader job. I read the craziest stuff that went right into the round file. The only one that sticks was I think from ’68 about several soldiers dying, basically freezing, during an experiment by the Army to see how they would do with summer equipment in someplace like Alaska. There were a bunch of other stories like that and just saw the round file.

So that soured me on politics. But along about ‘06 I started to listen to a guy name prof. Michael Hudson on the radio talk about economic history and to me it was like reading an engine manual. It took something that had never made sense, economics, and showed how it worked through history. He was saying everything was lining up to crash HARD and as I was talking to others who were into real estate and stock markets they said it was the usual “the end is nigh” crap and completely dismissed it. But when the whole thing crumpled like an empty beer can just like Hudson said I was convinced there were others who knew too. So I read the Big Short, Flash Boys, both by Michael Lewis. And then Homewreckers and the last was probably the most astounding Tower of Basel by Adam LeBor. The BIS, Bank of Internal Settlements. Created to deal with Germany’s reparations after WW1. Incredible story and a huge cast of characters like the Dulles Bro’s. It sounds like a total tin hat fever dream but the biggest bank nobody has ever heard of. Right out in plain site but completely behind the curtain for a century.


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## Larry$ (Jun 27, 2022)

Janderso said:


> if you want liquidity you are limited.


How much liquidity do you need? I now have rental income. But at several points along the way I had debt payments that took every bit of rental income. Risky game. But now the ones I kept are paid off and generate a nice income. Putting up with renters takes a considerable amount of tolerance.  I don't have any pension income since I've always been self employed. I do get social security but that would be a pretty skinny way to live. People should plan their retirement long before it happens.


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## Brento (Jun 28, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> And make stuff ! My machines aren't even hooked up yet and work is telling me they have more work than I could handle . Everywhere is all cnc these days . Not good for one off jobs when taking in programming time then running a single part . We on here will be ok , they'll be plenty of work to go around if wanted .


Ill take any small jobs over here!!


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## projectnut (Jun 28, 2022)

We brought the motorhome to the house yesterday to do some work on it.  On the way home we decided to fill it with gas.  It only needed a little over half a tank, but the bill was still $235.00.  A few weeks ago, we went from Wisconsin to Nebraska to see the Sand Hill Cranes.  We were bucking 35 mph head winds the entire 700 miles going west.  The cost of gas for the round trip was $770.00.  Who would have ever thought that the biggest expense on your vacation would be gasoline?


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jun 28, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> Here's how I get save money on commuting, company test rider program. Never needs gas ever, if I need to top up it just uses that little grey cable on the table in front of it. Otherwise I just plug it in when I drop it off in the morning at prototype & test.
> 
> View attachment 411828
> 
> ...


Here's how I do it
	

		
			
		

		
	





I'm usually a bit jealous of people in their climate controlled comfy seats but I did feel a little smug riding past the gas station queues during the hurricane Harvey panic buying attack in San Antonio.

I've kept track of expenses over the last 5 years and it's worked out to around 5c a mile, not including the price of the bike.


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## Janderso (Jun 28, 2022)

FOMOGO said:


> News is not what it once was, the AP included.
> The AP is owned by its contributing newspapers and radio and television stations in the United States, all of which contribute stories to the AP and use material written by its staff journalists. Most of the AP staff are union members and are represented by the Newspaper Guild, which operates under the Communications Workers of America, which operates under the AFL–CIO.”
> 
> "For decades the media has fallen under the ownership of a few corporations who through their editorial control have created a socially engineered construct which represents a fabricated version of reality. In order to maintain this artificial illusion the media exercises a program of censorship of all news and events of importance and replaces the truth with lies, distortion, distraction and omission. The media thereby create a false version of reality in order to keep the public compliant and controlled."
> ...


The press is a powerful tool. Scary stuff, that.


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## Janderso (Jun 28, 2022)

projectnut said:


> We brought the motorhome to the house yesterday to do some work on it.  On the way home we decided to fill it with gas.  It only needed a little over half a tank, but the bill was still $235.00.  A few weeks ago, we went from Wisconsin to Nebraska to see the Sand Hill Cranes.  We were bucking 35 mph head winds the entire 700 miles going west.  The cost of gas for the round trip was $770.00.  Who would have ever thought that the biggest expense on your vacation would be gasoline?


I get about 12 mpg pulling our trailer.
It’s defenetly a big expense but still worth it.


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## Janderso (Jun 28, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> I guess I got a big dose of the news ain’t what it’s cracked up to be early in life. My mom was the first female reporter in the little hometown newspaper The Sunstar. As with her and all her siblings she had to it better than anybody and lived, breathed and ate her job. She had the city council and police/highway patrol beats. It was a constant battle over what the story was she turned in and what was edited out. Being a teenager with a different focus I just mostly remember her frustration. Especially with the dirt that was going on in city politics. It was so bad she was paranoid.
> 
> I got a direct dose when I was desperate for a summer job and took the assistant proofreader job. I read the craziest stuff that went right into the round file. The only one that sticks was I think from ’68 about several soldiers dying, basically freezing, during an experiment by the Army to see how they would do with summer equipment in someplace like Alaska. There were a bunch of other stories like that and just saw the round file.
> 
> So that soured me on politics. But along about ‘06 I started to listen to a guy name prof. Michael Hudson on the radio talk about economic history and to me it was like reading an engine manual. It took something that had never made sense, economics, and showed how it worked through history. He was saying everything was lining up to crash HARD and as I was talking to others who were into real estate and stock markets they said it was the usual “the end is nigh” crap and completely dismissed it. But when the whole thing crumpled like an empty beer can just like Hudson said I was convinced there were others who knew too. So I read the Big Short, Flash Boys, both by Michael Lewis. And then Homewreckers and the last was probably the most astounding Tower of Basel by Adam LeBor. The BIS, Bank of Internal Settlements. Created to deal with Germany’s reparations after WW1. Incredible story and a huge cast of characters like the Dulles Bro’s. It sounds like a total tin hat fever dream but the biggest bank nobody has ever heard of. Right out in plain site but completely behind the curtain for a century.


Some of these army experiments could have been worked out on paper.
That’s criminal imho.


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## wachuko (Jun 28, 2022)

I traded my diesel truck for a car for my wife... the old car I was going to use will not go to my niece so she can move around campus and the area (she is at University of Central Florida and need some wheels)...  I sold one of my motorcycles, the adventure bike.... 

As much as I want to get a new truck (miss mine already), I am really thinking of just pulling the trigger on a Chevy Bolt...  247 miles range... 6,300 discount right now, and they install a rapid charger for free... 

We can always use my father-in-law's XC90 to pull the trailer for moving around stuff...


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## 34_40 (Jun 28, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> I know a cherry farmer who belongs to a cartel. He explained how they got together and set prices for all the growers and I was amazed that what he described was legal, it sure wouldn't have been for my business. But they had the power and got laws passed to make it happen.
> 
> Every time the farmers in our area dump cherries it causes massive fruit fly swarms and outrage from locals who don't understand what's going on.
> 
> John


And I am or rather was a cranberry grower here in Massachusetts. A cartel under the name of Ocean Spray, who pass themselves off as a group of farms promoting the cranberry fruit, when in fact they are a large corporation controlling the whole cranberry crop and who can supply or grow it.  They control who gets paid and how much. To fight back we spent a number of years dumping our fruit rather than them giving us nothing!  It's an industry where you grow a crop on the promise of a certain price... and then sign a contract for that price.  But after you deliver the crop, it may take them 9 to 12 months to pay off.... oh,and that contracted price,you remember that promise....  forget it.  They could'a promised you 50 bucks a barrel in the contract..  but then explain - there were "unforeseen costs"... so they pay you 18 or 19 dollars a barrel..   Guess what, no one can live at that number for very long,  so in protest - we dumped it.  The processer we used was chased out - they went all the way to Canada to escape.  Welcome to america!


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## addertooth (Jun 28, 2022)

I was very happy with my raise a couple years back, it really bumped up my standard of living (thus having the spare money to build a small garage shop).  Now I have been watching it erode with dismay.  

They only things we can do these days is try to control costs.  My daily driver was made in 1991, and it is much cheaper to keep it running, than make car payments and have the more expensive comprehensive insurance.  

Groceries are climbing at a notable rate. I used to pitch in 160 bucks every two weeks only a year ago.  It is now up to 200 for the same time period. 

I "had a bad feeling" and moved my money to bonds just before the market started to decline; I am happy that choice was made at that time.  Most of my co-workers have seen about a 15 to 20 % decline in thier 401k accounts over the past few months.  It is painful for them. 

It is shocking that precious metals have stayed suprisingly flat in value.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jun 28, 2022)

you're lucky you got a raise, I haven't had one for 5 years thanks to the state of Texas. But my Dean did tell me I was appreciated and valued, though clearly not enough to pay me any more.


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## Aaron_W (Jun 28, 2022)

I would highly recommend the book Fast Food Nation if interested in the subject. Despite the title it is not all that focused on fast food so much as how industry has evolved from trained workers being valuable assets to the model developed by the fast food industry treating workers as cheap disposable cogs.


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## mmcmdl (Jun 28, 2022)

Put another $125 in the diesel truck just now . If I left the truck running while pumping , I don't think the tank would ever fill !  I'm spending money like it's going out of style , which it just may be .  I don't let things I can't control bother me , life is short and you enjoy it when you can .


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## JimDawson (Jun 28, 2022)

I filled mine for $75 the other day   But I started at 3/4 full   $6.02/gal.

I've been filling at 3/4 tank just to kind of keep ahead of the price increases.  Not sure if I'm ahead of the game or not.  The good news is that I don't have to drive much, and I can do this every 2 or 3 weeks.


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## rabler (Jun 28, 2022)

I may be pulling the gooseneck horse trailer out to the Boston area with the duallie.  That's going to be a lot of diesel fuel ($$).


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## pontiac428 (Jun 28, 2022)

addertooth said:


> It is shocking that precious metals have stayed suprisingly flat in value.


You can't eat precious metals.  Can't burn them in the gas tank.  I suppose you could load your revolver with them, but... yeah, I've always wondered why people look to gold during times of societal failure.  Must be the holes in my brain from the flux fumes, because I don't understand why people would leverage a commodity that has little immediate usefulness in a post-collapse society.  Would it not be more fruitful to invest in gunpowder?


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## addertooth (Jun 28, 2022)

pontiac428 said:


> You can't eat precious metals.  Can't burn them in the gas tank.  I suppose you could load your revolver with them, but... yeah, I've always wondered why people look to gold during times of societal failure.  Must be the holes in my brain from the flux fumes, because I don't understand why people would leverage a commodity that has little immediate usefulness in a post-collapse society.  Would it not be more fruitful to invest in gunpowder?


It is simple, somebody, somewhere will value silver, gold, platinum.   Even though you can't eat it, 1 oz of sillver will buy you several cheeseburgers.  Generally, it does not devalue like fiat currency.   Both silver and gold are used in the integrated circuit industry, and has a price floor due to that.  I would bet that even in true economic collapse (where all cash bills have a value of zero), you will still be able to get stuff with precious metals.


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## addertooth (Jun 28, 2022)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> you're lucky you got a raise, I haven't had one for 5 years thanks to the state of Texas. But my Dean did tell me I was appreciated and valued, though clearly not enough to pay me any more.


I had to make it happen.  I got a job offer from those nice SOCOM guys to re-locate to Tampa for a very large wage (due to cost of living differential in Tampa).  My employer realized I was the only one who could do certain things for them, and gave me over a 20 percent raise to stay.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jun 28, 2022)

Yeah, I'm trying, but it's very hard to get a job in academia. Been close a few times, but no cigar yet


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## Cheeseking (Jun 28, 2022)

markba633csi said:


> CNC farming- just sit back and let the machines do the work, while you sit on the porch with a mai-tai



Lol you may have been kidding but….









						FarmBot | Open-Source CNC Farming
					

Farming and gardening robots for home, educational, and commercial use. Premium Hardware · Worldwide Shipping · Drag and Drop Farm Designer · Step-by-Step Assembly Instructions · Own Your Food




					farm.bot


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## Janderso (Jun 28, 2022)

34_40 said:


> And I am or rather was a cranberry grower here in Massachusetts. A cartel under the name of Ocean Spray, who pass themselves off as a group of farms promoting the cranberry fruit, when in fact they are a large corporation controlling the whole cranberry crop and who can supply or grow it.  They control who gets paid and how much. To fight back we spent a number of years dumping our fruit rather than them giving us nothing!  It's an industry where you grow a crop on the promise of a certain price... and then sign a contract for that price.  But after you deliver the crop, it may take them 9 to 12 months to pay off.... oh,and that contracted price,you remember that promise....  forget it.  They could'a promised you 50 bucks a barrel in the contract..  but then explain - there were "unforeseen costs"... so they pay you 18 or 19 dollars a barrel..   Guess what, no one can live at that number for very long,  so in protest - we dumped it.  The processer we used was chased out - they went all the way to Canada to escape.  Welcome to america!


What a racket.


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## Janderso (Jun 28, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> Put another $125 in the diesel truck just now . If I left the truck running while pumping , I don't think the tank would ever fill !  I'm spending money like it's going out of style , which it just may be .  I don't let things I can't control bother me , life is short and you enjoy it when you can .


Yeah, these are crazy times.
Remember 1979?
Whew, that was inflation! Kind of like today actually.
I was selling Ford trucks.
AAA credit would get you 14.5% on a new car loan.
You could buy municipal bonds for a 8% guaranteed return.
Wouldn’t that be nice! Your cash would remain neutral.


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## Beckerkumm (Jun 29, 2022)

I've been an accountant for cranberry farms for 45 years.  Ocean Spray is a co operative owned by its farmer members and is an interesting combination of capitalism and socialism.  For all except about 10 of those years the growers have done very well if they produced at or above their peer group average.  That is not to say there hasn't been lots of room for improvement but I'd argue a fair amount of the co op's mistakes have come from paying too much attention to the under performing members who screamed the loudest about being under paid.  The cranberry industry issues are as complicated as any economic issues but as is generally the case, if you outperform your peer group you will do well.  If you under perform there is no safety net that will or should  make you whole.  

The recipe for inflation has been cooking for a long time.  The only surprise should be how long it has simmered before boiling over.  

Dave


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## 34_40 (Jun 29, 2022)

Janderso said:


> What a racket.


Tell me about it. And the gov't supports them, not the little guy.   So our family forbids any O.S. products into our house.  
Big deal, they'll never feel it but it makes us feel better. LOL


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## 34_40 (Jun 29, 2022)

O.S. the co-op that would spend 3 years filling it's freezers around the country with fruit so that on the fourth year they dump all the fruit on the market and nose dive the prices..  so that the farmers who had signed contracts for a certain dollar value and borrowed money based on that contract were then forced into bankruptcy,   over a 10 or 12 year period many small farms were forced under.  Then O.S. creates a 3 tiered program for payment.. if you are considered a "original member"   you can get between 50 to 60 dollars a barrel..   the next level is targeted to get 30 to 40 dollars a barrel,  lastly is the "contracted grower"  you cannot really ever be a "member"  you are just good enough to get 16 to 22 bucks a barrel.. They keep stringing you along because in lean years they need the fruit to meet their demand.   In the 80's & 90's cranberries became a great cash crop,  O.S. ran around asking farmers to switch crops and put in bogs, as many as you can, they would buy everything you could grow.  Even Canada was paying their farmers to switch and cash in, then Russia and many others..  So much fruit brought the price down, but we were still okay even tho' small farm.  But not enough for Cott, Dole, Pepsi.. all owned O.S. at one time or another.   The greed from the boardroom makes them feed on what they created, and the little family farmer is hung out to dry once again.


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## Janderso (Jun 29, 2022)

Beckerkumm said:


> I've been an accountant for cranberry farms for 45 years.  Ocean Spray is a co operative owned by its farmer members and is an interesting combination of capitalism and socialism.  For all except about 10 of those years the growers have done very well if they produced at or above their peer group average.  That is not to say there hasn't been lots of room for improvement but I'd argue a fair amount of the co op's mistakes have come from paying too much attention to the under performing members who screamed the loudest about being under paid.  The cranberry industry issues are as complicated as any economic issues but as is generally the case, if you outperform your peer group you will do well.  If you under perform there is no safety net that will or should  make you whole.
> 
> The recipe for inflation has been cooking for a long time.  The only surprise should be how long it has simmered before boiling over.
> 
> Dave


Complicated business, farming.
I remember when a local paper would publish the farmers names and amounts received for not planting rice to keep the price up.
Let8s just say the farmers and their families weren’t too pleased.


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## NCjeeper (Jun 29, 2022)




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## woodchucker (Jun 29, 2022)

Oil vs Electric vehicles:  something not being considered.
I'm not a lover of the oil companies, the 70s oil shortage.. the prices now.
But there is a danger coming, one that I don't think is being considered. If all of the cars convert over to electric, there is less of a need for gas. Less of a need for oil (WRONG)... oil will still be needed for lubrication, but the price will sky rocket, because gas is one of the products that drive the prices. while I am simplistically looking at it, and not fully educated on oil/gas production, there will be enormous price increases due to the smaller retail pool. scale lowers the cost of most things. lower demand and it becomes more expensive to produce, as there are less suppliers, less supporting companies. REVERSE of supply and demand. It's not a supply, it's a scale factor.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jun 29, 2022)

if you want crazy farming practices, just read up on the Canadian maple sugar market. I seem to remember some farmers getting prosecuted for smuggling their maple syrup into the US. Like the Prohibition, but with maple sugar instead of moonshine


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## pdentrem (Jun 29, 2022)

There is a lot on money in maple syrup! Don’t waste your time on tobacco or maryjane.






						Great Canadian Maple Syrup Heist - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## wachuko (Jun 29, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> Oil vs Electric vehicles:  something not being considered.
> I'm not a lover of the oil companies, the 70s oil shortage.. the prices now.
> But there is a danger coming, one that I don't think is being considered. If all of the cars convert over to electric, there is less of a need for gas. Less of a need for oil (WRONG)... oil will still be needed for lubrication, but the price will sky rocket, because gas is one of the products that drive the prices. while I am simplistically looking at it, and not fully educated on oil/gas production, there will be enormous price increases due to the smaller retail pool. scale lowers the cost of most things. lower demand and it becomes more expensive to produce, as there are less suppliers, less supporting companies. REVERSE of supply and demand. It's not a supply, it's a scale factor.


I have been going back and forth on this for the last few days... doing the numbers... Even buying a Bolt EUV, the least expensive of the cars available that I can install a hitch to (not supported by GM, but a few folks using them to tow without issues) the monthly payments will not offset what I am paying for gas... meaning, no sense in buying anything at all right now.

We have been going back and forth from Orlando to Ocala (170 miles round trip) every week.  Sometimes, twice per week... and I thought that I could save by getting an EV...  Does not look like that is the case.

Fortunate that I can work from home, so the only expense is when we are taking stuff over... maybe it will make sense if we ever go back to working from the office... 

Okay, that means I can get more tools for the garage/shop!!!


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## woodchucker (Jun 29, 2022)

I'm not talking whether ev makes sense, in some ways it does, in some it doesn't.
what I am strictly talk about is the UNINTENDED consequence.  So many times new laws come across and many will say why didn't they see that coming.  This is not a law, but it does have an UNINTENDED consequence.  The real danger is if the need drops so low, how many companies will survive. Do we head to a monopoly.  so many ways of it playing out.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jun 29, 2022)

pdentrem said:


> There is a lot on money in maple syrup! Don’t waste your time on tobacco or maryjane.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love the fact that there's an "International Strategic Reserve" of maple syrup, just like gasoline


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## wachuko (Jun 29, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> I'm not talking whether ev makes sense, in some ways it does, in some it doesn't.
> what I am strictly talk about is the UNINTENDED consequence.  So many times new laws come across and many will say why didn't they see that coming.  This is not a law, but it does have an UNINTENDED consequence.  The real danger is if the need drops so low, how many companies will survive. Do we head to a monopoly.  so many ways of it playing out.


Ah!  Got it now.  Thanks for further clarifying your comments.  Understood.


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## pontiac428 (Jun 29, 2022)

Bah, a few million American motor vehicle operators are not the heart and soul of the oil industry.  You're worrying about nothing.  While we're likely to play more with electric vehicles moving forward, there are still entire continents that are rich with resources and feature populations many fold that of the US who will continue to burn petrol because they lack the infrastructure to support EVs.  That will be the market for the oil companies, and the consumers will pay because it's no different in Calcutta than Dallas as long as the conglomerate gets their cut.  The idea that the oil industry will lose all of its customers over electric cars in the US is simplistic.  China, India, Brazil and the whole southern continent, Africa, Asia... They'll buy the gas long after we stop, and Exxon will oblige.  You'll still be able to buy a tub of bearing grease when you need it.  Whether you will still be able to buy a 1/2 lb of Angus beef on a bun is a much different question.


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## woodchucker (Jun 29, 2022)

pontiac428 said:


> Bah, a few million American motor vehicle operators are not the heart and soul of the oil industry.  You're worrying about nothing.  While we're likely to play more with electric vehicles moving forward, there are still entire continents that are rich with resources and feature populations many fold that of the US who will continue to burn petrol because they lack the infrastructure to support EVs.  That will be the market for the oil companies, and the consumers will pay because it's no different in Calcutta than Dallas as long as the conglomerate gets their cut.  The idea that the oil industry will lose all of its customers over electric cars in the US is simplistic.  China, India, Brazil and the whole southern continent, Africa, Asia... They'll buy the gas long after we stop, and Exxon will oblige.  You'll still be able to buy a tub of bearing grease when you need it.  Whether you will still be able to buy a 1/2 lb of Angus beef on a bun is a much different question.


I don't mean that they will lose all, but it will put a big dent in their production.
epoxies, plastics, etc are all by products of oil refinment, and most is for oil (diesel and gas)  both are heavily used in non-coal burning power generation.  I know it won't completely go away, but a huge chunk is still transportation. And that's what drives the by products too.  So with a reduced need for gas/diesel, now you have problems .. un-intended consequences.


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## pontiac428 (Jun 29, 2022)

You're right about transportation.  Pre-WWII Europe saw railroad and autobahn/highway expansion on a massive scale.  The US waited until after WWII, and decided to skip the railroad part.  The US has a big huge 4 time zone mainland that would have really benefitted from inexpensive travel and transport, but at the time, the automobile was seen as the solution.  Now all of our logistics are handled by 600 hp diesel trucks pulling one 45' trailer at a time from coast to coast.  That wasn't very good planning, and as the fuel crisis, the environmental crisis, and now the falling Icarus crisis or whatever you want to call it has left us wishing we had a dang railroad where one train can pull several million pounds of freight instead of one truck pulling a net of less than 25 tons per haul.  To make it worse, trucks are at the low end of the priority list for fuel.  The marine transport industry will get every drop if scarcity gets scary.  Of course, the millionaires will have fuel for their private jets, that goes without saying.  

It's okay, we're only ankle deep in it.  Of course, we dove in head first, but ankle deep is ankle deep.


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## rabler (Jun 29, 2022)

I'm guessing we're still 10 years from the point where new cars are more EVs than internal combustion.  And if the average life of a car is a bit shy of 10 years, that means that it'll take more than another 10 years for 1/2 the cars on the road to be electric.  I figure that means we're  at least 3 decades away from seeing internal combustion cars become rare.

The interesting thing is my understanding that a barrel of crude produces so many gallons of gasoline, so many diesel, so much oil, etc, and that can only be changed somewhat.  I doubt diesel and jet fuel will succumb to EVs as fast as gasoline engines.  Does gasoline at some point become a waste product, like natural gas?


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## wachuko (Jun 29, 2022)

rabler said:


> I'm guessing we're still 10 years from the point where new vehicles are more EVs than internal combustion.  And if the average life of a car is a bit shy of 10 years, that means that it'll take more than another 10 years for 1/2 the cars on the road to be electric.  I figure that means we're  at least 3 decades away from seeing internal combustion cars become rare.


I sure hope so… I need all those years to finish my pending car projects!


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## pontiac428 (Jun 29, 2022)

rabler said:


> Does gasoline at some point become a waste product, like natural gas?


Nope, it becomes feedstock for chemicals, plastics, pharmaceuticals, and the rest of the industrialized processes that require raw material.  The reactions that are done in refineries today are awe-inspiring.  They can separate, fractionate, crack, catalyze, and react every which way to provide the end of the pipe commodities demanded from the same barrel of oil that can be fractioned into fuels.


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## woodchucker (Jun 29, 2022)

rabler said:


> The interesting thing is my understanding that a barrel of crude produces so many gallons of gasoline, so many diesel, so much oil, etc, and that can only be changed somewhat.  I doubt diesel and jet fuel will succumb to EVs as fast as gasoline engines.  *Does gasoline at some point become a waste product, like natural gas?*


I was thinking the same. What then happens?


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## addertooth (Jun 29, 2022)

Let me toss in some refinery chemistry.  The GTL process converts natural gas to modern synthetic oils.  When you buy synthetic oil, it was most likely was made by dealing with catalysts and fractionalizing natural gas to produce oil (yes, this is an oversimplification, but the full text would take two pages and encompass about 3600 patents).

And yes, back in the days natural gas was treated like a waste product from oil wells and was burned off at the site. 

So, as long as we are using natural gas, we will have accesss to very high quality (high purity) synthetic oils, which outperform lubricating oils refined from crude oil. 

*This includes the Mr. Wizard science moement for the day*


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## rabler (Jun 29, 2022)

addertooth said:


> And yes, back in the days natural gas was treated like a waste product from oil wells and was burned off at the site.


It still is on many small wells around here, where the economics don't favor collecting it.  Although recent energy economics may see that change.  And of course cattle & manure produce a large quantity that are definitely a "waste product"


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## woodchucker (Jun 29, 2022)

rabler said:


> It still is on many small wells around here, where the economics don't favor collecting it.  Although recent energy economics may see that change.  And of course cattle & manure produce a large quantity that are definitely a "waste product"


Me tooooooooo ...


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## woodchucker (Jun 29, 2022)

addertooth said:


> Let me toss in some refinery chemistry.  The GTL process converts natural gas to modern synthetic oils.  When you buy synthetic oil, it was most likely was made by dealing with catalysts and fractionalizing natural gas to produce oil (yes, this is an oversimplification, but the full text would take two pages and encompass about 3600 patents).
> 
> And yes, back in the days natural gas was treated like a waste product from oil wells and was burned off at the site.
> 
> ...


so Mr. Wizard, is there a danger to the future of oil/prices/lubricant's monopolies, if EV takes over at some point in the near or DISTANT future. I agree with rab, we are looking probably 10-20 years out.  but is there the danger of un-intended consequences.


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## savarin (Jun 29, 2022)

Without the heat from infernal consumption engines wont vegetable oils be sufficient for electric vehicles?


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## woodchucker (Jun 29, 2022)

savarin said:


> Without the heat from infernal consumption engines wont vegetable oils be sufficient for electric vehicles?


imagine the stink from rancid vegetable oils ...
I think they are going to use some lubes in some of the parts, and electronics.


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## FOMOGO (Jun 29, 2022)

Just add a little oregano, and garlic, and warm up the linguini on the battery packs. Mike


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