# End Mill Lubrication



## dragos28 (May 31, 2016)

What are you guys using when milling aluminum?

So far I'm using WD40 




I've also tried spray silicone 

What's the best lubrication to use?


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## Hawkeye (May 31, 2016)

Years ago, I used spray silicone to lubricate a tap cutting aluminum. It seized immediately and the tap broke.

Many of us use WD40 to lubricate aluminum. Some use kerosene. I have used Crisco to good effect. I applied it with an acid brush. It ends to stay in place, so you can brush it onto the cutter or brush the work piece along the cutting path. It could make you a bit hungry though. Smells like baking.


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## JimDawson (May 31, 2016)

I've not had good luck with silicone.  WD-40 works very well, but I was having problems with it plugging up my no-fog coolant system.  Kerosene also works very well and does not plug up my coolant system.

Like you, I use the WD-40 spray can for quick jobs.

Just a note:  Wearing gloves can be very dangerous around anything that turns.  They work great for working with hot or sharp stuff when the machines are turned off


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## dragos28 (May 31, 2016)

The silicone worries me as it says its highly flammable and shouldnt be sprayed on hot surfaces.

about the gloves, you're right but i also make it a priority to be careful while working, so i dont reach for the piece until the mill is off.


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## JimDawson (May 31, 2016)

dragos28 said:


> The silicone worries me as it says its highly flammable and shouldnt be sprayed on hot surfaces.



Actually the silicone isn't flammable, but the propane or butane propellant sure is.


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## dlane (Jun 1, 2016)

WD 40 in spray cans here in CA looks like milk now , I got some in a gallon jug that is regular, at least it was


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## mikey (Jun 1, 2016)

Try some A-9 if you need a fine finish. That stuff is the best for aluminum that I've found.


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## Andre (Jun 1, 2016)

Kerosene. Like WD40 but doesn't leave a slick residue on everything and is cheaper. Also is a great cleaner.

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk


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## Chip Hacket (Jun 1, 2016)

mikey said:


> Try some A-9 if you need a fine finish. That stuff is the best for aluminum that I've found.


Mikey,  what's A9?  Please don't tell me I need another oil can!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cascao (Jun 1, 2016)

Breathing small WD40 drops left in the air isn't good to your lungs. (They can't go out anymore) Use spray cans moderately. Or a breather.


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## Groundhog (Jun 1, 2016)

Tap Magic Aluminum when not using flood coolant.


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## dragos28 (Jun 1, 2016)

what i do like about wd40 is that it pools on the piece so i dont need to spray it continuously, but just like with the silicone spray, i'm sure that its terrible for me to breathe in... would also like an option that is somewhat not as unhealthy.


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## KMoffett (Jun 1, 2016)

JimDawson said:


> I've not had good luck with silicone.  WD-40 works very well, but I was having problems with it plugging up my no-fog coolant system.  Kerosene also works very well and does not plug up my coolant system. ...../QUOTE]
> 
> You're misting Kerosene? "The flash point of kerosene is between 37 and 65 °C (100 and 150 °F), and its autoignition temperature is 220 °C (428 °F)." [Wikipedia]
> 
> ...


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## mikey (Jun 1, 2016)

Chip Hacket said:


> Mikey,  what's A9?  Please don't tell me I need another oil can!



Yup, sorry. Relton A-9 is yet another cutting fluid to try. WD-40 works for most aluminum but if you need a really good finish try A-9 and a sharp HSS tool. You only need a little bit of it per cut and a 16oz can will last years.


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## T Bredehoft (Jun 1, 2016)

I've been using a 16 oz can of A-9 for 2 1/2 years, it's about 1/3 gone. seems to do a good job.


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## chips&more (Jun 1, 2016)

I use Ridgid thread cutting oil on just about everything.


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## dragos28 (Jun 1, 2016)

Went to the local nuts & bolts to pick up some more SS bolts and i bought a gallon of wd40 and a tall can of Rapid Tap, the wd40 works for sure, so i'll see how the rapid tap holds up.


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## CraigB1960 (Jun 4, 2016)

I use Trim Sol for all metal cutting and machining operations.   I generally mix 9 parts water (I use distilled) to 1 part Trim Sol and put the mixture in a spray bottle.   Cuts like butter. A gallon jug lasts a very long time.

"TRIM SOL® is a soluble oil (emulsion) coolant concentrate which is the world standard general-purpose multi-metal coolant for general machining of ferrous and nonferrous materials. It has the lubricity and “guts” necessary to do heavy-duty machining center work and still provide the wetting and cooling necessary for high-speed turning and grinding operations. "


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## Groundhog (Jun 4, 2016)

Like CraigB1960 I use a Trim product (CR350) for a flood coolant (as stated above, I use Tap Magic Aluminum or Rapid Tap for a brush-on).
Something I discovered though: When I lived in Idaho I was able to use tap water to mix the Trim fluid with and had no bad side effects. However, here in Kansas if I use tap water things start to rust in a few days making the use of distilled water necessary.


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## Tozguy (Jun 5, 2016)

dragos28 said:


> The silicone worries me as it says its highly flammable and shouldnt be sprayed on hot surfaces.



WD40 is very flammable too. I did some flammability tests by wetting a 12'' piece of cotton string and setting fire to it.
The string was hanging from a piece of coat hanger and was lit at the bottom. Marvel Mystery Oil and some tapping fluid were also tested.
WD40 burnt the quickest of the four fluids I tested. So a word of caution about flammability....and doubly so if it is misted.


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## dogma (Jun 5, 2016)

I have also had good results with Relton A-9.  The SDS only lists mineral oil as 70-90%.  I'm guessing the color is from a non-toxic dye that does not need to be disclosed.  Has anyone tried straight mineral oil or canola oil?


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## aliva (Jun 7, 2016)

I use Castrol  Syntilo, because it's clear and you can see what's going on, At work they use it mainly on the CNC's. I'ts expensive but I got a couple of gallons for free . mixes at 6% concentration, but it can eat cheap Chinese paint.
 . http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/F...A1FB7D8025779600303D51/$File/455241_XI_en.pdf


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## CraigB1960 (Jun 20, 2016)

Just a note.  Saturday I was turning and milling some 6061 2.5" rod and my bottle of Trim Sol ran out.  Instead of mixing some more, I grabbed my bottle of WD-40 to finish the job.  What a difference, after a few minutes, I stopped and mixed up my Trim Sol.  There is absolutely no comparison between proper coolant/cutting fluid and WD-40.  With the WD-40, the tool did not cut quickly, heated up fast, and smoked.

I pay $27/gallon of Trim Sol, which makes 11 gallons when mixed.   Compare this with $20/gallon of WD-40.


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## zmotorsports (Jun 20, 2016)

For aluminum I generally use Relton's A-9 but on occasion will use some WD40.  I much prefer the A-9 though.

Mike.


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## BGHansen (Jun 20, 2016)

I use WD-40 in a spray car for quick aluminum jobs on the lathe or bench.  My Grizzly G0709 has Trimsol in the tank, with distilled water.  That's used for flood coolant when turning.

Bruce


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## John Hasler (Jun 20, 2016)

Which Trim-Sol product?


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## wrmiller (Jun 20, 2016)

zmotorsports said:


> For aluminum I generally use Relton's A-9 but on occasion will use some WD40.  I much prefer the A-9 though.
> Mike.



I have A9 in the FogBuster and use it on everything because it's better than nothing and I'm too lazy to keep changing back and forth for aluminum vs. steel. Surprisingly, it (A9) works pretty well for steel...


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## CraigB1960 (Jun 20, 2016)

wrmiller said:


> I have A9 in the FogBuster and use it on everything because it's better than nothing and I'm too lazy to keep changing back and forth for aluminum vs. steel. Surprisingly, it (A9) works pretty well for steel...




I use Trim Sol for both, it is a general purpose coolant/cutting fluid.  Nice thing about it is you can use it as a flood coolant or in a spray bottle as cutting fluid.  I use it on my Bridgeport and Lathe when cutting.  Getting ready to install a catch basin on my Kalamazoo bandsaw and will use it as a flood coolant.

I have not used A9, but have a quart of Rapid Tap (maker of A9) on the shelf with a case of Tap Magic.  I stopped using those when I "discovered" Trim Sol.  I like the smell, cleanup, and cutting action of Trim Sol so much I just standardized on it.  It seems to cling to the metal well too.


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## CraigB1960 (Jun 20, 2016)

John Hasler said:


> Which Trim-Sol product?



SOL/1

I buy it here: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=319-3899

(No affiliation with Enco)

Metalworking Fluids & Coolants; Type: Cutting & Grinding; Form or Style: *Water Soluble; For Use With: Ferrous Metals; For Use With: NonFerrous Metals;* Container Size (Gal.): 1.00; Container Type: Bottle

*Container Size:* 1 Gal.
*Container Type:* Jug
*Package Quantity:* 4
*Type:* Trim® SOL Heavy-Duty Soluble Oil
*Manufacturer Part Number: * SOL/1


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## dogma (Jun 20, 2016)

It appears that Master Chemical/Trim Sol requires some sort of corp. account in order to download SDS'.  A few online re-sellers have them but the practice of not making your SDS sheets publicly available rubs me the wrong way.


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## Groundhog (Jun 20, 2016)

John Hasler said:


> Which Trim-Sol product?


I've used Trim-Sol CR350 for 5 or 6 years now. I don't remember why I chose that one, but I've always been happy with it. I use an aquarium air pump on a timer 15 minutes twice a day and have never been plagued with odor or growth (don't know if the air helps though - I've just always used it)? See my post above about rust and Trim-Sol.


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## CraigB1960 (Jun 20, 2016)

dogma said:


> It appears that Master Chemical/Trim Sol requires some sort of corp. account in order to download SDS'.  A few online re-sellers have them but the practice of not making your SDS sheets publicly available rubs me the wrong way.



It is publicly available, they only require you to register with them, took me a minute.  A company affiliation is required in one of their fields, but there were no checks...so self, none, etc, should work.  Did not even need an email verification, so you could fake all that as well.  I think the only reason they do this is they only recommend using it (and perhaps all their products) in industrial settings.

Trim Sol is pretty benign stuff.  Not harmful, except if gotten in eyes, causes irritation.


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## Mark_f (Jun 20, 2016)

I have read this complete thread and there are many opinions here. In fact so many different opinions , I am finding it hard to make a decision. I want to go to flood coolant on my saw and maybe my lathe, but after reading all the info here I am not sure which way to go. I remember the old solvable oil coolants that soured after a while and smelled like the out house on a fishing boat and don't want that. Is this a problem with the Trim-Sol?


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## Cheeseking (Jun 20, 2016)

Maybe check out Accu-lube? MQL system is almost dry.  No sticky mess.  You do need enough shop air tho.


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## CraigB1960 (Jun 20, 2016)

mark_f said:


> I have read this complete thread and there are many opinions here. In fact so many different opinions , I am finding it hard to make a decision. I want to go to flood coolant on my saw and maybe my lathe, but after reading all the info here I am not sure which way to go. I remember the old solvable oil coolants that soured after a while and smelled like the out house on a fishing boat and don't want that. Is this a problem with the Trim-Sol?



Mark, Trim Sol has a FAQ on their site that addresses possible odor.  I remember when I was in an R&D shop with large amounts of coolant, the machinists would change and clean out the sumps after 3 months or so.  They did not use distilled or RO water, whereas I do.

I do not have any issues when using Trim Sol in a spray bottle for lathe and mill use, however when I add flood coolant to my bandsaw in a few weeks, I will do as Groundhog does and use a timed aquarium air pump.  That will definitely help prevent the anaerobic bacterial from building up.  (This is the source of the odor).

The problem with Trim Sol and other manufactures is the vast amount of products they offer.  Certainly creates confusion of selection.  I went with a general purpose, all around good performer, since I am not doing anything critical or high speed...hence SOL/1.   Whereas others are using different Trim Sol selections, which work well too.

I suspect most of their products (as well as the other manufactures' designed cutting fluid pointed out here) work just as well.  Remembering this thread was started by asking what we all were using for aluminum machining.  Tap Magic, Rapid Tap, A9, are all designed for cutting/tapping of aluminum as well as Trim Sol in a spray bottle if you don't have flood coolant.

The point I wanted to make is there are properly designed cutting fluids available that are not expensive....even lower cost than WD-40, and will make a huge difference in your cutting/machining experience.

Why did I go with Trim Sol?  I had a lot of wants:
I wanted something that would take the place of WD-40, something designed for machining.
I wanted something that worked for many metals..cause I'm lazy/cheap and did not want to have different formulas of Tap Magic, Rapid Tap, etc for different metals.
I wanted something for a low cost, yet perform well....did I mention I'm cheap?
I wanted something I could use in a spray bottle.  I had been using WD-40 (bulk) in a spray bottle.
I wanted something that did did not smell bad when taking heavy cuts. 
I wanted something that lasted a long time so I did not have to continually order or store many bottles.
I wanted something that I could use in a flooded coolant system.

The Trim Sol I went with is $2.45/gallon for a proven coolant/cutting fluid,  that is very hard to beat.  That is a lot cheaper than WD-40 (by almost 8:1) and cheaper than Kerosene. 

Below is from Trim Sol's FAQ section:
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
*5) Why does my coolant have an unpleasant smell?*

An unpleasant coolant smell is most likely attributed to anaerobic bacteria. Bacteria produce waste products, which often contain sulfur and exude the "rotten-egg" smell. Bacteria are major contributors to coolant failure. They chemically alter coolants and destroy the lubricants and corrosion inhibitors in the process. They also pass off corrosive acids and salts into the coolant, which can lead to low pH and corrosion problems. The bacterial growth can be minimized by:


Maintaining proper coolant concentration.
Good housekeeping practices (cleanliness).
Preventing or minimizing contamination.
Good filtration of the coolant and continuously removing chips. Thorough, periodic sump clean-outs.
Oftentimes, "cover-ups" which are perfumes, can be used to mask odors but they are not a cure and their use can lead to more serious fluid problems later.

*18) Why does the machine sump smell badly after a few days shut-down?*

When a machine is shut down for a few days some of the tramp oil in the fluid separates and rises to the top of the sump sealing off the fluid from the air. Anaerobic bacteria grow and reproduce without the need of oxygen. As a matter of fact oxygen actually inhibits their growth. These bacteria in the stagnant fluid now begin to grow and release hydrogen sulfide (H2S) gas that dissolves in the coolant. When the coolant pumps are turned on at the end of the shut down the dissolved H2S is released to the atmosphere. H2S has the characteristic odor of rotten eggs and the human nose can detect it at the 1-2 parts per billion level. Talk to your Master Chemical District Manager or your TRIM® distributor about ways of controlling this persistent problem.


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## Mark_f (Jun 20, 2016)

CraigB1960 said:


> Mark, Trim Sol has a FAQ on their site that addresses possible odor.  I remember when I was in an R&D shop with large amounts of coolant, the machinists would change and clean out the sumps after 3 months or so.  They did not use distilled or RO water, whereas I do.
> 
> I do not have any issues when using Trim Sol in a spray bottle for lathe and mill use, however when I add flood coolant to my bandsaw in a few weeks, I will do as Groundhog does and use a timed aquarium air pump.  That will definitely help prevent the anaerobic bacterial from building up.  (This is the source of the odor).
> 
> ...



Interesting . I'm now thinking I will hold off on flood coolant as there will be too much dormant time for it. After all , I have a tiny little 8x 12 hobby shop not a production setup. That being said, I remember many moons ago,  In a shop I worked in, we had flood coolant on our surface grinder. It never had a smell problem and many times would go for days without being run. But I don't know what was in the coolant tank. I do know the lathes coolant smelled so bad I would throw up when I got close to it.


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## wrmiller (Jun 20, 2016)

I will be buying another FogBuster for the lathe, and will likely just put A9 in it. Seems to work well for the mill. 

Later this summer when I finally upgrade my bandsaw, I am unsure what to put in the coolant tank. As I do mostly aluminum with some steel (about 30% of the time), would A9 work in the bandsaw?


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## BGHansen (Jun 21, 2016)

John Hasler said:


> Which Trim-Sol product?


Here's the pic from ENCO's on-line catalog.  Stuff works great, doesn't stink.

Bruce


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