# My new PM932M-PDF, the good, bad and ugly



## RebelJD (Oct 2, 2021)

As a follow up to my previous post I wanted to provide an update on my experience with my new mill.   I'm a little late getting to this, but I wanted to get some run time on the machine so I could do a thorough evaluation.  And life sometimes gets in the way of these hobbies of mine.  First off I want to say that I was fully aware I was buying an import machine from China and would likely need to "tune it up a little".  I've been reading that the quality of China imports has been going down the past few years, supposedly due to the labor shortage associated with Covid-19.  I think my machine is a testament to that.  My machine had some major issues that thankfully Matt at Precision Matthews quickly helped to resolve.  It is a shame that he has to do that due to the poor quality of his vendors.  So what follows is what I'm calling the good, the bad, and the ugly.   I've already provided most of this feedback to Precision Matthews so this is no way and attempt to throw them under the bus.  Rather I hope others can benefit from this either before they buy or after.
*The GOOD* -
The machine and base came well packaged.   The Lead Screws are nice and beefy and have about .005" of backlash, which I think is fine for this type of machine. The table movements are smooth once you get the gibs adjusted they way you want.  I love the big crank handles.  The power Z-axis is nice and quiet.   If you are debating as to purchase this option, just do it.  It's amazing how much you run it up and down.  I also purchased the Power Down Feed (PDF) because I plan to do a lot of deep hole boring.  So far it works very well.  Lastly the DRO is terrific, I would never consider a mill without one.  I have not yet used some of the advanced features but the basic functions work great.

*The BAD and Ugly*
By far the worse thing about the mill was the poorly ground table.   It was so bad when you ran a straight edge from front to rear it would stop on the middle t-slot. There was a .005 difference in the height of the surfaces adjacent to the middle t-slot.  And there was a huge gouge on the rear section of the table.  You could actually see and feel chatter marks on the table.  Precision Matthews offered to have the table re-ground or I could return the machine.  I waited 6 months for this machine and did not want to go thru that again so I elected to have the table re-ground locally.  The shop that did the work told me that had to take about .010 to get it cleaned up.  They did say the table has a slight twist to it as they had to shim opposite corners .003 and .004 to get it to sit on the surface grinder without rocking.  I don't know if this is going to be an issue but right now is has not been a problem. 













It took about a week to get the table back and it looks great, except for that wart on the rear edge. I'm just going to live with that.

One other table issue was that the DRO scale for the X-Axis covered the ball oiler for the rear way making it difficult to properly oil that way. While I had the table off I drilled and installed two ball oilers on the top of table. I install two because I did not want a single oiler in the center of the table to be covered by the vise. If you do this mod be sure to counter sink the oiler so it does not protrude above the surface of the table.









I'm unsure how large I can make this post so I'll continue on another.


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## RebelJD (Oct 2, 2021)

Continuing on with my evaluation.

*Power Down Feed*. I went to add some oil to the oiler on the top of the PDF housing and found it was completely full of sand. That worried me so I removed the entire PDF for inspection. There was little dirt & sand, but also absolutely no lubrication.  Its fairly easy to remove the PDF, but you have to be careful to get everything in sync when you reinstall it.  Play around with a little when you have it off and get comfortable with how it works.  I lubricated everything and it seems to work fine.  I will say though, it’s a very clever design.









*Paint and Finish is terrible*. Paint covered the ball oilers and there is a lot of overspray. The paint chips easily but I think it has more to do with the filler used than the actual paint. The filler used appears to be drywall compound not a true catalyzed body filler. There is 1/8" or more of filler in many areas of the machine. When removing any cover, a lot filler comes off with it. You can actually chip the paint with your finger nail. I’ve seen a lot of grumbling about this on line. This is not just a cosmetic thing. For example, the PDF on/off knob and PDF speed adjust knob uses a ball/spring to set in detents in the case. When I turned the knobs, the paint was crumbling under the knob causing it to stick. I had to remove the paint from the surface under the knob and add some grease for it to operate smoothly. There was also dirty, greasy finger prints everywhere as though whoever tested it had very greasy hands.












*Electrical*. Everything worked electrically, but the documentation was inaccurate. The electrical drawing in the manual I downloaded from your website is wrong. It does not show the KM1 seal in contact around the start push button. Also, the Z axis motor and X axis motor are not powered downstream of the KM1 power disconnect. The drawing in the manual that came with the machine is more accurate. Additionally, the components in the control box are labeled wrong. The picture in the manual is correct. There were also some wires labeled wrong in the small electrical box on the rear of the column. These things are likely not a big deal to anyone unless they were troubleshooting an electrical problem in the future. This is the kind of thing I did for living so I always like to check actual wiring before I energize something the first time, that’s why I found it. Also, the only ground to the base/column was the ground connection going to the spindle motor, which means the connection to the base/column was through the Z-Axis gibs. Probably not a big deal but I did run a separate ground wire to the column. There is a place on the lower column labeled as a ground.










I'll continue on another post.


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## RebelJD (Oct 2, 2021)

Continuing 

*DRO Mount.* I love the DRO, but the way it was mounted was pretty bad. The bracket that was mounted to the back of the column appears to have been installed before the filler was set as there is a deep divot in the column. The worse thing though was the bolt provided was 8mm but the holes in the bracket and the arm were about 10mm. I don’t know if I’m missing a bushing or what. It was way too sloppy to use. And with the bracket mounted on the rear of the column you could not position it very well. I ended up using a DRO mount I had from old Sony DRO and mounted it on the side of the column, its very solid and better positioned.











*R8 adapters* – the two R8 adapters that came shipped in the small plastic tool box were simply wrapped in paper. The ground end that fits in the Jacobs chuck has several dings in it. I ordered a keyless chuck so I likely won’t being using it but it should have been better packaged. And that cheap plastic tool box leaves a cheap impression, a simple cardboard box would be better.







*Gib lock screws* – The ends of the Gib Lock screws are uneven and inconsistent. Because the gibs are at an angle the ends of these locking screws need to be square or you could actually loosen a gib lock that you thought you were tightening. I had to square these up on my lathe to get a consistent feel against the gibs.










*Z-axis bellow* – The mounting of the bellows was horrible. It was spaced about ½” from the ways and was uneven. I was hard for me to imagine milling something to precision while looking the way this was mounted. I had to make a new mount for the upper and modified the lower mount to work.












The lower cover on the headstock was installed backwards and in doing so they stripped out a threaded hole in the casting. I installed it properly, but could only install 3 of the four screws.







Well those are the issues I've found and fixed so far.  At some point I'll probably take the gearbox apart to inspect it although it seems to work fine and its very quiet.   I'll continue on another post with my experiences in tramming the mill and using it on some fairly complex parts.


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## Winegrower (Oct 2, 2021)

A great report.   I have to say, the PM users on this site give a lot of slack to the company.    And I am always amused when I read something like the comment "I don't want to buy a used tool because it may have problems".


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## Aukai (Oct 2, 2021)

Thanks for posting, once you fiddle with it to get it right, I hope you will enjoy it


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## C-Bag (Oct 2, 2021)

I know all about being between a rock and a hard spot. I would have been beside myself with that .004” twist. It‘s all relative I guess.


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## Tipton1965 (Oct 2, 2021)

I know you waited awhile to get the machine but I personally would have sent it back to PM.  But then I'm pretty patient with stuff like that.  Did PM offer to ship you a different model machine?


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## RebelJD (Oct 2, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> I know all about being between a rock and a hard spot. I would have been beside myself with that .004” twist. It‘s all relative I guess.


I have not seen any issues with the twist.  I checked as best I could on my 24" surface plate and did not measure more than .001   It may have been out just on the ends.


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## RebelJD (Oct 2, 2021)

Tipton1965 said:


> I know you waited awhile to get the machine but I personally would have sent it back to PM.  But then I'm pretty patient with stuff like that.  Did PM offer to ship you a different model machine?


PM offered to have me return it but we never really got into a discussion on the exchange.


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## yota (Oct 2, 2021)

that is pretty crappy.  I have the same model and did a post on it.  we have the same cosmetic issues but my table is flat as far as I can tell.  the sand in your machine is pretty bad though and I guess I need to dig deeper to see if I have any.  as hard as it would have been, I would have returned that machine.


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## allischick (Oct 2, 2021)

Wow....is all that I can say.  .005" on the table?  :-(

Thanks for the information though!  It's a huge help when researching machines.


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## 7milesup (Oct 2, 2021)

I don't know, it seems like that machine is nigh but a disaster, or at least it was.  I would not have been happy.

I am sure that you will enjoy the machine once all the bugs are worked out.


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## davidpbest (Oct 3, 2021)

Great post.  More people should do posts like this.  I agree that PM shouldn't have to deal with so many of these quality problems from their suppliers.  I feel bad for Matt - he works very hard and provides good service, but a lot of this could be avoided with better QC at the supplier end.  The paint and filler on these machines (even from Taiwan) is just terrible, which is why I stripped down my 935 mill and 1340 lathe to bare castings first thing, and did a proper body fill and repaint.  DRO installations are often quick-and-dirty and overlook things like oiler locations or even carriage/compound locking bolts that need to be accessible.  I have always elected to do my own DRO installs - it's not that hard to do right if you take some time to consider placement.  

I'm curious what it costs to have the table ground flat, and if you had any issues finding someone local to do the work.


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## C-Bag (Oct 3, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> I agree that PM shouldn't have to deal with so many of these quality problems from their suppliers.


But the reality things no matter where they are made will happen. It's all about the support when stuff goes south. 

I know of an instrument manufacturer who has the bulk of the instrument made in China they it's shipped to the US and a crew here finishes them. I don't know if that would work in this instance. But bottom line it's tough to QC an assembled machine tool. 

You pays your money and ya takes your chances.


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## Jake P (Oct 3, 2021)

I'm very apprehensive as to what has become of the Taiwanese QC as well in this covid situation.  I guess there's a few of us who will find out in a few weeks when we get the next shipment of 1340GTs and 833s.  Little doubt that Taiwan was affected as well.  We will see just how much so.


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## Winegrower (Oct 4, 2021)

Admittedly I am part of the generation of engineering management that shipped so many products and technologies to Asia…it’s foolish to say any of us had a choice, given the total economic environment. 

What I know is that China is capable of the highest quality product at the highest volume production and lowest cost of any country.   Every iPhone I have gotten has been literally flawless in execution.   To accept sand in the gears, flaking paint, bad body filler, poor accessory installation, etc., is a management problem that can be solved, but has to be recognized as needing to be solved.  It’s not enough to offer a replacement product that will have the same or worse or better distribution of issues, who knows?

I have taken many trips to Taiwan and China.  They are not inherently sloppy, inept workers.  They are, however, generally completely ignorant of what these things they make are, what they do, how they are used, and what is important to get right.  If nobody tells and shows them, they will keep doing the same thing.   If you show them, they will forget, as US workers do.  Properly managed by customer and company leaders, they will produce good results.

All these problems I lay directly at the feet of PM and their supplier(s) management.


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## akjeff (Oct 4, 2021)

I applaud the honest no holds barred review. This experience is why I choose to spend the time and money to just rehab old American  or European iron, and be done with it. With careful shopping and research, a used circa 1978 Lagun, including shipping, and some repair work ( including a table re-grind ) by A&D Machine cost me about the new cost of an Asian knockoff, which would have required additional work to "make it right". While it took a good bit of homework and elbow grease, it was worth every penny, and drop of sweat.


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## RebelJD (Oct 4, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> Great post.  More people should do posts like this.  I agree that PM shouldn't have to deal with so many of these quality problems from their suppliers.  I feel bad for Matt - he works very hard and provides good service, but a lot of this could be avoided with better QC at the supplier end.  The paint and filler on these machines (even from Taiwan) is just terrible, which is why I stripped down my 935 mill and 1340 lathe to bare castings first thing, and did a proper body fill and repaint.  DRO installations are often quick-and-dirty and overlook things like oiler locations or even carriage/compound locking bolts that need to be accessible.  I have always elected to do my own DRO installs - it's not that hard to do right if you take some time to consider placement.
> 
> I'm curious what it costs to have the table ground flat, and if you had any issues finding someone local to do the work.


Wow, a complete repaint.  I do a lot of car restoration so I know what that takes.  I'd love to do that on mine but too many other priorities, right now.  I actually thought the DRO scales were installed pretty good.  The DRO mounting itself I think was a missing bushing or something.  The shop I used to regrind the table charged $300.  Precision Matthews refunded me quickly plus a few bucks for my labor.  Thanks for your reply.
Jim


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## RebelJD (Oct 4, 2021)

Winegrower said:


> Admittedly I am part of the generation of engineering management that shipped so many products and technologies to Asia…it’s foolish to say any of us had a choice, given the total economic environment.
> 
> What I know is that China is capable of the highest quality product at the highest volume production and lowest cost of any country.   Every iPhone I have gotten has been literally flawless in execution.   To accept sand in the gears, flaking paint, bad body filler, poor accessory installation, etc., is a management problem that can be solved, but has to be recognized as needing to be solved.  It’s not enough to offer a replacement product that will have the same or worse or better distribution of issues, who knows?
> 
> ...


I'm old enough to remember when Japan first became a low cost provider.  Quality was poor and a lot of stuff was considered "Japanese Junk".  Then they got quality religion and now many products from Japan are very good, especially when compared to China and India.  Quality however is not something that is done in the end, its part of the whole process.  I'm a retired engineer from a large company that adopted a six sigma quality mentality long ago.  I'm not sure what Matt's business model is but without direct involvement in the entire process he is left with resolving problems with offering replacements etc.  Hopefully he is reading these posts and can use them to help improve things.

I know there is always a debate about buying an import versus a used domestic machine but the prices for used machines like a Bridgeport in good condition are out of my range.  Companies like Precision Matthews are filling a need for the hobby/low end market.

After spending some time tramming and adjusting my mill I have been able to machine some parts that have checked out well.  I'm fairly new to machining so I'm going to start a new tread on my efforts and experiences in tramming  and using the mill.  I've learned some things but still have some questions that hopefully others can help with.


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## Cletus (Oct 4, 2021)

Very well said!   I'm an old electronics fart myself (industrial and medical), got into machining with a little Unimat SL when in my late teens and got some great work done on that thing (whole different story), but got serious into it about 17 years ago as an asset to my business. I bought Grizzly, Harbor-Freight and other select Asian manufactured equipment, knowing fully well a lot of tweaking would be necessary to bring it to some semblance of decent.  Well, in all cases the TLC paid off in many ways, I really learned the machine from the inside out, did many mods and ended up with really great machines and at a very reasonable cost.  My recent acquisition PM-935TS-3PH has really impressed me, out of the box it was just superb, all the accessories and mods were bolt-on uneventful and PM's support (a real person, with real answers is on the phone) IMHO is second to none, great company and great people to work with. 
Yes, I hope Matt can achieve improving quality control across the board, but as you rightly said, that would need to be "part of the whole process".


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## yota (Oct 4, 2021)

good to see some positive reports too.  honest reports good and bad and updates after a few  months and even years with use are what people need.


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## vtcnc (Oct 5, 2021)

Jake P said:


> I'm very apprehensive as to what has become of the Taiwanese QC as well in this covid situation.  I guess there's a few of us who will find out in a few weeks when we get the next shipment of 1340GTs and 833s.  Little doubt that Taiwan was affected as well.  We will see just how much so.


I'm not going to speak on behalf of machine tool importers/distributors but from where I sit, EVERYONE around the GLOBE is going through a crisis of labor shortage and knowledge LOST.

This for whatever host of reasons we want to believe has adversely affected everyone at all levels.


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## Beckerkumm (Oct 5, 2021)

I would expect both good and bad when buying price point machines from any source.  Grizzly has built a huge company on a business plan of selling inconsistent quality but making it right with the buyer.  Better publicity when fixing a problem than with upcharging to avoid the problem.  Whether you buy new or used, you need to be lucky or mechanically inclined.  The sweet spot with used is buying a higher end machine than you can afford new.  You will have fixing to do but there is reward for the risk.  Price point new is all about the seller's credibility but you are not out there all alone like with used.

I'm a used guy but it has taken years of learning to reduce the risk.  Buying new still requires the same skills but the support system is better.  Keep the expectations in line with the economics.  A 3K machine built overseas and shipped, freighted, and resold was probably built for 1K by the manufacturer.  Expecting no risk is folly.  Dave


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## rabler (Oct 5, 2021)

While I'm not a fan of quality issues in this type of equipment, I think machinists, whether hobby or pro, are seeking the best precision they can find.  So we're a tough crowd to satisfy.   I do wonder if a Heathkit type approach to some of this machinery would be of interest.  Of course the problem is you generally need some level of working machinery to proceed.


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## axa88 (Oct 19, 2021)

Ugh. Ive been lurking for years and finally scratched up enough $ for a 932, these kids of isues makes me want to reconcider.
Reminds me of the issues you used to get with chinese machines 20 years ago to be quite honest.
This isnt common is it?


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## Cletus (Oct 19, 2021)

I recently got a 935 myself and figured I would be doing all sorts of remedial work like when I bought other Asian made machinery. Not so, I was very pleasantly surprised to find fit and finish very good. Clean up the cosmoline, bolt on the accessories an begin using, no regrets.


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## axa88 (Oct 20, 2021)

Cletus said:


> I recently got a 935 myself and figured I would be doing all sorts of remedial work like when I bought other Asian made machinery. Not so, I was very pleasantly surprised to find fit and finish very good. Clean up the cosmoline, bolt on the accessories an begin using, no regrets.


Am i to understand this "935" you got in near Asia is the same as a 932 available in the US?


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## Tipton1965 (Oct 20, 2021)

axa88 said:


> Am i to understand this "935" you got in near Asia is the same as a 932 available in the US?


His 935 is a knee mill from Taiwan.  It's not the same as a 932.


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## axa88 (Oct 20, 2021)

Tipton1965 said:


> His 935 is a knee mill from Taiwan.  It's not the same as a 932.


Oh, I see. well what i do understand the Taiwan machines and Chinese are quite the difference in quality.
I suppose my question still stands


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## Tipton1965 (Oct 20, 2021)

axa88 said:


> I suppose my question still stands


I don't know how common it is to have as many issues on one machine like the OP has dealt with.  But what seems to be common is you will be more likely to have issues with a machine from mainland China compared to a machine from Taiwan. 

My advice would be to save a little more money and go with the 833 instead.


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## yota (Oct 20, 2021)

the 935 is a PM knee mill.


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## RebelJD (Oct 20, 2021)

While I was very disappointed with the 932 I received, Precision Matthews did step up and resolve the issues, mostly.  I've always heard good things about Precision Matthews, but in hindsight its always relative to resolving issues.  My sense is that the quality of any machine coming from China these days is much worse than it used to be, no matter who you buy it from in the US.

I have used my machine quite a bit in the past month and I'm happy with the way it works.  I'm working mainly in the middle third of the table and I have it trammed to less than .0005 in both directions.  It does get worse however as I move out closer to the ends.  But its actually just a tick worse than the specs call for.  I did buy a Boring Research adjustable spindle square which makes tramming the mill easier and faster.   I also built a tramming fixture (my first project on the mill) because I got tired of beating on the headstock with a mallet.  Given all the filler on the machine it did cause some cosmetic damage.

I've done deep hole boring, facing with fly cutter and a lot of milling and drilling on parts for a small CNC Mill I'm building.  Everything has turned out great.  As an aside, I'm using an X-Y table made in Switzerland by Fehlman for the CNC Mill.  Talk about high quality compared to the China imports, WOW.

I though hard about going with a Taiwan import like the 935, but I'm retired and on a budget.  Based on what I know now however, I would probably spend the extra money and go with the 935.  Don't tell my wife.....

A few lessons learned --- The DRO is great, I can't imagine having a mill without one.   I've also come to realize that I spend a lot time changing tools and cranking on the drawbar a lot gets old fast.  You definitely need to get a spindle spline wrench,  I painted my red to help remind me not leave it on the splines.  I'm definitely going to install an air powered drawbar mod when I get the time.   I also installed the levelers on some 3" square tubing to raise the table, its just too low for me to work comfortably.


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## ericc (Oct 20, 2021)

5 thou on the table???!?  And people are afraid of a little jaw lift on substandard vises.  Things have to be put in perspective.  A Kurt is nice, but might not always be necessary.


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## yota (Oct 20, 2021)

glad to here you have things working well.  I wonder if there is a spindle wrench that is open end?  leaving one on the spindle sounds like something I could end up doing.


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## RebelJD (Oct 20, 2021)

Yota, by the way I got the idea for the Boring Research gauge from your post.  Thanks for helping me spend $100....

I don't think an open ended spline would work.  I treat the spline wrench like a lathe chuck key, either its in your hand or its in it storage place.


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## yota (Oct 20, 2021)

I remembered that I had this wrench for my South Bend lathe.  works great on the 932 spindle and I can't forget and leave it on there.


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## yota (Oct 20, 2021)

RebelJD said:


> Yota, by the way I got the idea for the Boring Research gauge from your post.  Thanks for helping me spend $100....
> 
> I don't think an open ended spline would work.  I treat the spline wrench like a lathe chuck key, either its in your hand or its in it storage place.


mine only cost 47.00 but I already had a couple of old Peacock dial indicators.


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## Larry$ (Oct 20, 2021)

yota said:


> I wonder if there is a spindle wrench that is open end?


About 8 years ago I bought a cheap Chinese spindle socket wrench/brass tipped hammer combo. Made a bracket for the side of the mill. My mill requires that I tap the top of the drawbar, after loosening a bit, to free the collet. Works great. No reason to leave it in place.


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## Cletus (Oct 20, 2021)

axa88 said:


> Am i to understand this "935" you got in near Asia is the same as a 932 available in the US?


I needed a Knee Mill and chose the PM-935TS 3PH. I was advised that there was a quality benefit in selecting a Taiwanese made product (meehanite castings, Turcite coated ways, fit and finish, etc).  I was not disappointed.


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## BladesIIB (Oct 20, 2021)

ericc said:


> 5 thou on the table???!?  And people are afraid of a little jaw lift on substandard vises.  Things have to be put in perspective.  A Kurt is nice, but might not always be necessary.


I think his post says he trammed the table to .0005” which is 5 tenths or half thou.


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## ericc (Oct 20, 2021)

BladesIIB said:


> I think his post says he trimmed the table to .0005” which is 5 tenths or half thou.


Right, but it started at 5 thou off.  Even my old junk rusty table saw top is better than this, but not by much.


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## av8ter (Oct 20, 2021)

yota said:


> glad to here you have things working well.  I wonder if there is a spindle wrench that is open end?  leaving one on the spindle sounds like something I could end up doing.


Take a small rope-large string and affix it to the top of the spindle cap. Then hook the other end to the top of the electric box in-line with the forward-off-reverse (spindle motor) switch. Make the cord just long enough that when you hang the cap over the front of the panel it will hang in front of the switch. If you leave the wrench on the spindle the cap will be in the way of turning on the spindle motor switch and remind you to remove wrench and put cap on.


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## B2 (Oct 21, 2021)

@RebelJD I see your picture of your spline wrench.​ Re: Spline wrench design

If I recall correctly, Matt (PM) said that they were going to start carrying spline wrenches for our machines and that they would be available by the end of the summer.  I did not see them on the PM web site yet.... but maybe they just have not gotten them posted or maybe it is the supply chain issue again.  Anyway, I have a very nice one I got from PM a long time ago (2018).  A friend needed one recently and from mine I made a drawing about how to simply make one by drilling holes at the spline corners and milling the handle out.... all from a piece of thick plate Al.   However, he had a 3D printer and just printed one.  He says his plastic version works!  I attached a pic and my sketch.  

Dave


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## Christianstark (Oct 21, 2021)

B2 said:


> @RebelJD I see your picture of your spline wrench.​ Re: Spline wrench design
> 
> If I recall correctly, Matt (PM) said that they were going to start carrying spline wrenches for our machines and that they would be available by the end of the summer.  I did not see them on the PM web site yet.... but maybe they just have not gotten them posted or maybe it is the supply chain issue again.  Anyway, I have a very nice one I got from PM a long time ago (2018).  A friend needed one recently and from mine I made a drawing about how to simply make one by drilling holes at the spline corners and milling the handle out.... all from a piece of thick plate Al.   However, he had a 3D printer and just printed one.  He says his plastic version works!  I attached a pic and my sketch.
> 
> Dave



It is listed in rye owners manual online for my 833TV. May also be in the manual for other machines? It was my understanding, at least for 833 purchasers, it would be provided at no cost.

Edit - I’m remembering this wrong. It was a wrench type apparatus for the spindle due to no lock or low gearing on V models.


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## Tipton1965 (Oct 21, 2021)

Christianstark said:


> It is listed in rye owners manual online for my 833TV. May also be in the manual for other machines? It was my understanding, at least for 833 purchasers, it would be provided at no cost.
> 
> Edit - I’m remembering this wrong. It was a wrench type apparatus for the spindle due to no lock or low gearing on V models.


Yeah, for the 833TV Precision Mathews sent me a part that slid over the spindle and tightened down.  It came with a flat steel wrench but you had to machine the flats on the spindle portion yourself.  Later the top of the 833TV was slightly changed so a wrench could be used from the top after removing the cover.  Here's a pic of the difference.


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