# Milling Vise--To Swivel or not to Swivel?



## ACHiPo (Jan 13, 2018)

It seems like most entry and mid-level milling vises come with swivel bases.  I never really understood this, especially for smaller vises (for smaller machines) where Z height is at a premium.  What's the general consensus on the usefulness of a swivel base?  On another milling vise thread an opinion was given that "get the swivel base and take it off--that way you have it if you ever need it".

Whatya think?  Swivel, or no swivel?


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## Asm109 (Jan 13, 2018)

Never needed a swivel vise.  Now a sine bar is another proposition entirely.
If someone gave me a good Kurt like vise with a swivel base, I would remove the swivel and save it for the unlikely future need. Pay money for a swivel? Never!


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## ezduzit (Jan 13, 2018)

Would not consider a swivel.


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## T Bredehoft (Jan 13, 2018)

My vise came with a swivel, it's never been on the mill. Don't expect it ever will  be.


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## Robert LaLonde (Jan 13, 2018)

On a manual mill its pretty handy to swivel.  On a CNC mill its of no use whatsoever to have a swivel base.  

However even on a manual mill if you do not need a swivel base then don't install it.  It just adds one more layer of reduced tolerance and additional adjustment error.  It might add some flex as well.  I have several swivel bases, but only have one (1) installed on my little mill drill.


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## 682bear (Jan 13, 2018)

Bob La Londe said:


> On a manual mill its pretty handy to swivel.  On a CNC mill its of no use whatsoever to have a swivel base.
> 
> However even on a manual mill if you do not need a swivel base then don't install it.  It just adds one more layer of reduced tolerance and additional adjustment error.  It might add some flex as well.  I have several swivel bases, but only have one (1) installed on my little mill drill.



I agree... and I have used the swivel base a number of times on my mill.

-Bear


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## Bob Korves (Jan 13, 2018)

I do not have a swivel mill vise (actually I do, sort of, secret future project ) and have never wanted one for a job so far.  It is entirely possible, less work, and perhaps faster, to clamp your vise down to the table at an angle if you need it at an angle.  It will be more rigid, lower profile, and more resistant to accidental rotation without the swivel base.  If your vise comes with a swivel base, I still recommend leaving it off the table, and putting it in a dark corner somewhere in case you might want to use it someday.
If I thought I needed a swivel vise, I would buy a nice old B&S angle/swivel vise like this:
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...makers-universal-vise-help.58671/#post-483468
I would only mount it to the table when I needed it.


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## ch2co (Jan 13, 2018)

Swivel vice, no. 
Rotary table, yes.


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## f350ca (Jan 13, 2018)

I've only swivelled the vice once or twice but since I added the riser block to the mill I use the swivel as a spacer to reach the quill.

Greg


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## Chipper5783 (Jan 13, 2018)

No swivel base for me.  So many other options: clamp project to the table at what ever angle desired, rotary table, bolt/clamp vise at what ever angle, swivel the entire table (i.e. I have a universal table).  On my little mill, I need the head room.  On that mill - I use the vise less than half the time (usually clamp directly to the table).

No doubt there are jobs that a swivel base for a vise would be  very convenient - I just have not run into that.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jan 13, 2018)

i remove the swivel bases for 2 reasons.
they take up vertical headspace and an indicated 30° is rarely actually 30°.
why even mark them with graduations???


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## Glenn Brooks (Jan 13, 2018)

Well, I use a swivel vise. It’s very convenient to nudge the vise back and forth to align the vise parallel to the mill table. Particularly when cutting an angle and returning to its original position.

I’ve never been hindered by the height it takes up.

Glenn


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## mikey (Jan 13, 2018)

I have a swivel vise on my Sherline mill and find it handy once in a while, like milling an angle at the end of a work piece, but it doesn't get all that much use. Based on my experience, I bought my Kurt vise without the swiveling base and don't plan to regret it (I hope). If someone gave me a swiveling base for my Kurt, I wouldn't turn it down but I don't think I would invest in it. 

A tilting angle table, now that is something worth buying.


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## middle.road (Jan 13, 2018)

+1 to what *ch2co *says. But I also like what *Glenn *stated.
On the Ol' Index the 5" import it came off as soon as I went to install it - (20) years ago.
On the Bridgeport, the one that is mounted does not have one, but the Bridgeport vise on the floor on a dolly (that I keep moving around) has one.
Now I'm trying to decide. Gonna have to think on this one. Of course I may forget what I was thinking on. . .


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## coherent (Jan 13, 2018)

Just something else to align. and to come out of alignment. There are much simpler and stable ways to fixture your work piece at the angle you need. I'm sure the really good vice makers make really good swivel bases to go with them, but on the cheaper imports not so great.


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## C-Bag (Jan 14, 2018)

When I decided I needed to upgrade my mill vise I'd already been watching a bunch of YouTube vids. When I looked at the different vises and saw the price of the swivel it made me try and remember how many times I'd seen a vid with one used. I couldn't remember seeing one. Saw a lot of rotary tables though. So went with no swivel and found me a 10" rotary. Never have missed the swivel on the mill. 

My Atlas 7b came with the stock vise w/swivel. First thing I noticed was the deg marks were off. Second was it was not truly flat, and it cut down on my verticle clearance. It has been off for quite a while and I'm not sure it will ever be needed. But like everything else I have I know I won't get rid of it as the second I do I'll be sorry.


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## Alittlerusty (Jan 14, 2018)

On my manual mill I have used the swivel quite abit for cutting slots for sliding hydraulic motor mounts, could I have dun it easily without it sure. Was it convenient using the vise this way yes.


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## EmilioG (Jan 14, 2018)

And if you do have a swivel base, I wouldn't use the marks, I would indicate the part or vise jaw.
If I saw a Kurt swivel for a great low price, I would buy it., although I think a rotab is far more useful.
I'd take the rotab over a swivel base., given a choice, but I don't reject swivel bases outright.


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## BGHansen (Jan 14, 2018)

My Bridgeport has a 6" Kurt swivel vise, was on the machine as I bought it.  To date I've never rotated the vise, but have only had the mill for 4 months.

Bought my Jet JVM-830 mill over 30 years ago and put an Enco 4" swivel vise on it.  Never rotated the vise in over 30 years, but would probably buy the swivel again "just in case".  I have a non-swivel 6" Kurt on it at present.

Bruce


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## Buffalo20 (Jan 14, 2018)

I have 3 vertical mills, all them have vise swivels, I would not be without them. I used the one on the Rockwell mill this afternoon.


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## Sandia (Jan 15, 2018)

I am with the majority here. When I bought my Acer mill I purchased the Kurt and swivel all in one package deal.  That was 7 or 8 years ago, and I used the swivel base one time. I was building a hit and miss engine and didn't have enough room on the Z axis so I took the base off to do the job. Never put it back on.  But I have it if I ever need it.


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## C-Bag (Jan 15, 2018)

It's interesting the poll is 60-40 for. As a noob I would like to ask humbly because I really don't know. Those of you who use a swivel and recently used it, what did you do with it?


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## markba633csi (Jan 15, 2018)

I have a nice old low profile 4" vise on my H/V combi mill and I use the swivel all the time.  The vise is 3-1/4" high overall. 
Mark S.


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## gr8legs (Jan 16, 2018)

My Wells-Index mill had two no-name swivel vises on it when I bought it in 2001 (The guy I bought it from was doing repetitive work and one was 'live' while he changed parts on the other.)

I took one off and stored it away - and later sold it at a garage sale.

When a non-swivel Kurt showed up at an auction a few years ago I changed out the swivel no-name for the Kurt no-swivel since in the 10+ years I had the mill I had never once turned the vise away from 0 degrees. Spoiled by CNC I guess.

Stu


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## Dabbler (Jan 16, 2018)

OH gawd, I've heard this debate for 40 years now.  Use what you like. 

One of my friends made many 100K$ on an import vise on a inexpensive Taiwanese BP clone. It did not have the swivel base.  And to Tom Lipton's dismay (if he ever heard of it), he has precise fitting alignment tabs affixed to the bottom.

Another has a 10X54 BP clone, with a very high tilt/swivel base.  He earns several 10K$ per year on that setup.  (he has no riser, which limits his vertical space).

My setup for more than 20 years has been a Kurt clone on a swivel base. 

*My point is* that whatever you use, learn to use it well.  My advise for a starter, is to get the most rigid setup you can afford.  Thus for a beginner, leave the swivel base on the shelf for a while.  After you gain significant experience, a swivel base can be effective in some situations and can save considerable time.  I leave mine on the mill because I'm lazy and I don't want to lose the base (!!).


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## Robert LaLonde (Jan 16, 2018)

Dabbler said:


> OH gawd, I've heard this debate for 40 years now.  Use what you like.



BUT, BUT, BUT,  I must impose upon you and all who will listen that my way is the best way... PERIOD!!!  This way I secure my position as the dominant tree pisser of the species.


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## bluechips (Jan 16, 2018)

I have a Kurt w/a swivel base, I like it and use it.  I will not say I use it a lot but it has come in handy and I was glad to have it.

However I have to add that I modified the holes on the vise to slots for when I do not want to use the swivel base.


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## Billh50 (Jan 16, 2018)

It is all a matter of preference and you will never get everyone to agree on one or the other. So go with what you think will work for you.


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## SSage (Jan 16, 2018)

It's better to have one and not need it. More options the better. 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## FOMOGO (Jan 16, 2018)

To swivel is fine, but OHHH! to "shimmy like her sister Kate". Sorry, that was totally uncalled for.


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## 682bear (Jan 16, 2018)

C-Bag said:


> It's interesting the poll is 60-40 for. As a noob I would like to ask humbly because I really don't know. Those of you who use a swivel and recently used it, what did you do with it?



The last time I used a swivel base, I was milling an extractor relief cut in the tenon on a custom 10/22 barrel.I had the barrel clamped in the vise, swiveled it to the correct angle, and made the cut with a Woodruff keyseat cutter. It worked very well for me.

-Bear


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## FLguy (Jan 17, 2018)

CNC vise.... the only way to fly.


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## Dabbler (Jan 17, 2018)

sure, CNC vise - *IF* you can afford it!


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