# I'm a sloppy machinist



## drrags (Jun 2, 2021)

But I don't mean to be!  In any given hobby project I do at least one of the following:
1: I don't tighten down all the clamps
2: I turn the table handle in the wrong direction
3: I read the wrong axis on the DRO for the handle I'm spinning (really!?)
4: I feed too fast like a spas.  That's when I become aware of #1
5: I machine features on the wrong side of the part
6: I probably do other dumb things that I can't think of right now.

What I've done right so far:
1: I have yet to drill or cut into the table
2: I remember to turn off the machines when I'm done (most of the time)
3: I have yet to cut off a finger or drill into my hand or shoot slivers into my eyes

I'm a retired physicist and software engineer and I'm used to detail, so why am I so sloppy with this?  I dunno, but for now I just call it inexperience as I've only been at this for a couple of months or so.  It's amusing in hindsight, but frustrating at the time.  I'd like to think I'm learning from my mistakes and will make fewer of them as time goes on.  I'm sure someone will say to quit while I'm ahead, but that's not gonna happen.  This is my confession.


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## mmcmdl (Jun 2, 2021)

We're hiring , you would fit right in .


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## mmcmdl (Jun 2, 2021)

All kidding aside , stay safe . This trade will take fingers off , pull hair out and throw projectiles . Larger lathes will take your life . Keep this in mind .


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## Aukai (Jun 2, 2021)

You are working on muscle memory, and order of work. It takes seat time, and repetition. Also,,,,, experience is something you get right after you needed it.


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## drrags (Jun 2, 2021)

Aukai said:


> experience is something you get right after you needed it.


Now that is something I'll remember and repeat.  I've never heard that.


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## NC Rick (Jun 2, 2021)

drrags said:


> But I don't mean to be!  In any given hobby project I do at least one of the following:
> 1: I don't tighten down all the clamps
> 2: I turn the table handle in the wrong direction
> 3: I read the wrong axis on the DRO for the handle I'm spinning (really!?)
> ...


I’m not near as smart as you and I do that stuff all the time.  Hit the dro number + a quarter turn.  Usually only having done a few hours of many things right…


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## Aukai (Jun 2, 2021)

Also known as,,,, Damn I won't do that again


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## Papa Charlie (Jun 2, 2021)

Also, remember, you are not alone. I have seen experienced so called professional machinists do every single one of the items you mentioned. 
So in theory, you are way ahead of the learning curve.


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## cathead (Jun 2, 2021)

I give you high marks for being able to admit that you have been guilty of being sloppy.  That way you have some
room for improvement.   I have made a few mistakes too but so far my mill table is free of any machining marks.
That's one thing I have been careful about.


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## drrags (Jun 2, 2021)

NC Rick said:


> I’m not near as smart as you and I do that stuff all the time.  Hit the dro number + a quarter turn.  Usually only having done a few hours of many things right…


Yes!  I'll spin towards zero but miss the + to - and wonder why my number are suddenly increasing!


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## Ken from ontario (Jun 2, 2021)

I drilled into my brand new lathe vise yesterday but after reading your post I don't feel bad ,  it was a sloppy mistake any physicist would make, right?


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## mmcmdl (Jun 2, 2021)

Can't say that cleanliness or organizational skills are tops on my list , but safety is . Always think before you act .


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## Winegrower (Jun 2, 2021)

Plus, at our stage of life, what’s the rush?


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## rabler (Jun 2, 2021)

I have some of the same problems.  I’m working on mindset: measure twice, keep focus.  Usually I make mistakes when I start thinking about something else, compounded when things take longer than I want.  Aka getting in a rush.


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## markba633csi (Jun 2, 2021)

If you are like me (and most of us) you'll find you do more of these things as the day grows long.  When you get tired, mistakes happen more and more.  At some point, I stop and just review everything I have done then go grab a beer and some supper. Sometimes I go back out and do more, but I set the bar lower after 5 pm and don't try to hold tight tolerances. This is performance art, after all- ya gotta be fresh
-Mark


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## drrags (Jun 2, 2021)

Winegrower said:


> Plus, at our stage of life, what’s the rush?


No kidding.  Earlier in my life, I would have gotten frustrated and soldered on.  Now... I have no guilt in just putting it down for an hour or a day.


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## Firstram (Jun 2, 2021)

Good decisions come from experience and experience comes from bad decisions! Take your time and make a checklist for each operation, try to approach it like a scientist would. I have seen cameramen tape a laser pointer to a camera head and trace a shape drawn on the wall using the hand wheels. It helps makes the moves instinctive. Be safe!


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## C-Bag (Jun 2, 2021)

Aukai said:


> experience is something you get right after you needed it.


Wow, truly sage words Aukai. I think that’s going up on the wall in the shop!


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## sdelivery (Jun 2, 2021)

Papa Charlie said:


> Also, remember, you are not alone. I have seen experienced so called professional machinists do every single one of the items you mentioned.
> So in theory, you are way ahead of the learning curve.


Me too!


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## Mitch Alsup (Jun 2, 2021)

drrags said:


> Now that is something I'll remember and repeat.  I've never heard that.



Machine tools are the fastest way to take a part requiring exactly one more machining operation and turn it into a piece of junk.


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## brino (Jun 2, 2021)

drrags said:


> I'm sure someone will say to quit while I'm ahead, but that's not gonna happen. This is my confession.



No don't quit, you need to do it more!
....then the mistake will become less and less.

-brino


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## Shotgun (Jun 2, 2021)

One thing I learned a while back is to not be afraid to draw on your part.  You don't have to get out the calipers to make the line exact, but a Sharpie mark indicating which side of the cut is scrap or slot-goes-here has saved my (metallic?) bacon countless times at this point.


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## Ken from ontario (Jun 2, 2021)

brino said:


> No don't quit, you need to do it more!
> ....then the mistake will become less and less.
> 
> -brino


Whoever came up with " you don't make the same mistake twice" was clearly not a hobby machinist.


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## drrags (Jun 2, 2021)

I put my flame suit on after I made this post, but it seems I didn't need it.  I really enjoyed everyone's comments and take them to heart.  This is an excellent group of people.


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## Aukai (Jun 2, 2021)

Not that kind of crowd here


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## erikmannie (Jun 2, 2021)

I usually have to go very slowly, and I will talk to myself (out loud) if I think it will help.

As long as you are working safely and showing improvement, I would say you are doing it right.

Being a hobbyist has a lot of benefits because you can set your own pace. Also, if you damage a tool or scrap a part, you don’t need to worry about getting fired or reprimanded. When I damage a tool, I say out loud, “Well, I can break my own stuff”.


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## Larry$ (Jun 3, 2021)

Today was one of those days! I setout to make a steel template for the molder knife grinder. I had a wood sample to go by. All I needed to do was copy it in reverse. I made a mistake by not doing a scale drawing. I put Dyekem on the metal and proceeded to make all sorts of scratches in it. A few in the right place. 4 layers of Dyekem latter ......  I went out in the garden and picked some strawberries. Maybe tomorrow.


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## C-Bag (Jun 3, 2021)

drrags said:


> I put my flame suit on after I made this post, but it seems I didn't need it.  I really enjoyed everyone's comments and take them to heart.  This is an excellent group of people.


One of the few places on the net its not dirty word to be a hobby machinist.


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## mmcmdl (Jun 3, 2021)

drrags said:


> I put my flame suit on after I made this post, but it seems I didn't need it. I really enjoyed everyone's comments and take them to heart. This is an excellent group of people.





Aukai said:


> Not that kind of crowd here



We laugh with you , not at you ..............................and I could keep everyone laughing for quite some time . As far as being sloppy ? LOL , no contest here .


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## hman (Jun 3, 2021)

Remembering which way to turn the crank is NOT something that comes naturally.  It sure didn't for me!  As others have said, it's largely "muscle" memory.  But as a physicist, you're probably familiar with the "right hand rule."  So it might be valuable to "learn" which cranks follow the right-hand rule, and which don't.  Since you have a DRO, you could do as a friend of mine has done, put a sticky label above each crank, indicating with a + and - what will happen to the DRO reading when the crank is turned each way.

Another handy thing that most machinists do on a mill is to lock the axis that's not supposed to move while cutting with "the other one."  A trick I've learned to do is, when about to switching to moving the opposite axis, have your hand on the handwheel for the axis you're about to release, and put gentle pressure on it in the direction you'll need to turn it.  That way, when you release the lock, you'll start moving it in the correct direction. 

It's all the little things that take time to learn, that help you be successful when using  machine tool.


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## Braeden P (Jun 3, 2021)

I read the mic wrong part was under size. remade it and read it wrong and under size! Then I made it 2 tenths under which was a perfect fit.


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## rabler (Jun 3, 2021)

Something I’m doing is trying to institute a bit of a mental checklist before hitting the on switch-acronym is SLOW:

S-safety-glasses on, no sleeves or loose clothes
L-locks-check all the appropriate axises are locked or unlocked
O-obstructions-is the cutting area and feed area clear of obstruction (hand turn chuck through a turn on lathe)
W-workpiece, physically check it is secure

Doesn’t cover all possible mistakes, but it get me focused on double checking and thinking thing through before rushing in.


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## Shotgun (Jun 3, 2021)

One of the things I keep screwing up is forgetting to tighten the bolts to lock the head on my round column mill.  I don't notice anything wrong until the cut starts moving in the Y direction when I'm cranking the X feed.  I have several slots that got turned into a P shape, thanks to this "feature".  (I don't even know what utility a rotating head is supposed to provide.  :-( )


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## mmcmdl (Jun 3, 2021)

Shotgun said:


> I have several slots that got turned into a P shape, thanks to this "feature".


 I've needed to mill these P slots before but couldn't figure out how to . Thanks for the tip !


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## Shotgun (Jun 3, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> I've needed to mill these P slots before but couldn't figure out how to . Thanks for the tip !


Heh, no worries.  If you ever need a tip on how to screw up a part, I seem to be a fountain of knowledge.


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## mmcmdl (Jun 3, 2021)

Shotgun said:


> Heh, no worries. If you ever need a tip on how to screw up a part, I seem to be a fountain of knowledge.


LOL , great post !


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## ericc (Jun 3, 2021)

It does get better.  I had a huge problem with throwing small parts and tools.  I slowed down and carefully analyzed everything that I was doing, for example, when I was sliding a pin into its hole.  I eventually discovered that I was twitching or jerking without my knowledge causing the critical part to go flying.  Somehow, this doesn't happen while welding or blacksmithing.  The solution was to apply a huge amount of focus every time something fiddly was going on.  Amazingly enough, the twitching got much better.  As a side effect, I noticed that I was getting less burns and cuts while cooking in the kitchen.  It took a great of effort and mindfulness.  At some points, I would become discouraged and thought I had some kind of disability and could never fix it.  The improvement was so slow, but now people around me say they notice the difference in the way I move.  Full credit goes to machining.


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## C-Bag (Jun 3, 2021)

rabler said:


> Something I’m doing is trying to institute a bit of a mental checklist before hitting the on switch-acronym is SLOW:
> 
> S-safety-glasses on, no sleeves or loose clothes
> L-locks-check all the appropriate axises are locked or unlocked
> ...


This was and sometimes still is the hardest part for me. My whole life was under the gun to get er done. So when I look up and HOURS have gone by and I've not gotten the "just"(just cut this, just make this etc) done I want to start pushing it thats ALWAYS when I make a mistake.

 Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. 

Almost everything I'm doing is one off and there's few direct experiences to call back to so only real general check lists will approach covering what I'm doing. It's funny every time I complain I didn't get what I wanted done to my wife she always says what's the rush, aren't you having fun? That always puts it back in perspective. Because I was never able to work to the level I am now with without my modest collection of small budget machines. Satisfaction is priceless. But it takes time and practice.


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## drrags (Jun 3, 2021)

ericc said:


> It does get better.  I had a huge problem with throwing small parts and tools.  I slowed down and carefully analyzed everything that I was doing, for example, when I was sliding a pin into its hole.  I eventually discovered that I was twitching or jerking without my knowledge causing the critical part to go flying.  Somehow, this doesn't happen while welding or blacksmithing.  The solution was to apply a huge amount of focus every time something fiddly was going on.  Amazingly enough, the twitching got much better.  As a side effect, I noticed that I was getting less burns and cuts while cooking in the kitchen.  It took a great of effort and mindfulness.  At some points, I would become discouraged and thought I had some kind of disability and could never fix it.  The improvement was so slow, but now people around me say they notice the difference in the way I move.  Full credit goes to machining.


This is interesting.  I spend half my day picking stuff up off the floor that I've knocked over.  I even yell at the "ghost" sometimes, to knock it off!  The other half of the day is bumping into door frames and table edges.  One thing I am good at is TIG welding though.  My torch is wavering and shaking all over the place as I prepare, but as soon as that arc strikes, I'm rock-steady.  Weird.  I think I'll analyze this like you have.


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## Ultradog MN (Jun 8, 2021)

markba633csi said:


> If you are like me (and most of us) you'll find you do more of these things as the day grows long.  When you get tired, mistakes happen more and more.  At some point, I stop and just review everything I have done then go grab a beer and some supper. Sometimes I go back out and do more, but I set the bar lower after 5 pm and don't try to hold tight tolerances. This is performance art, after all- ya gotta be fresh
> -Mark



When I see myself getting sloppy or careless I figure it must be time for a nap.  More than once I've woke up and went back out to my project and realized if I had continued as planned I would have created some precision scrap.


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## markba633csi (Jun 8, 2021)

To me, there's something satisfying about doing precise work with semi-crappy machines.  It's like if you gave Eddie a crappy guitar he'd make it sound great.
The challenge of using what ya got makes it more fun, somehow.  Sure it would be great to have 100k worth of stuff but it wouldn't be the same

(RIP Ed, shouldn't have smoked so much)


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## C-Bag (Jun 8, 2021)

markba633csi said:


> To me, there's something satisfying about doing precise work with semi-crappy machines.  It's like if you gave Eddie a crappy guitar he'd make it sound great.
> The challenge of using what ya got makes it more fun, somehow.  Sure it would be great to have 100k worth of stuff but it wouldn't be the same


THIS is the true crux of the biscuit!

It's the nut behind the wheel.

A carpenter doesn't blame his tools, etc.

I remember an story about the godfather of American mandolin David Grisman wanting a mandolin made by a luthier an the luthier was asking him specifics of the build. Grisman's reply was something to the effect, "make it pretty, I'll make it sound good".

From the threads here by old hands it became evident that it not always how nice or tight or unworn a machine tool is, it's whether you can be consistent with it and the machinist adapts.


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## Papa Charlie (Jun 8, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> THIS is the true crux of the biscuit!
> 
> It's the nut behind the wheel.
> 
> ...


That is the difference between a Machinist and someone that does machining.


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