# Weld with Water and Plasma



## Mike23 (Aug 7, 2021)

OK, so I'm not going to give a link. But Ive been watching this guy on a youtub channel called Don's Engine. I think he's an engineer or something. Anyway he made this video about a Multplaz welder. It welds with plasma and use water to push the plasma.  ???? Big Question ???? Has any one else had any experience with this thing?  It looks like a kick ass tool to add to the shop.  I also watched the videos he suggested about it and it does seem to work really well.  I mean if you don't need lots of consumables or gas bottles or the pain of fixxing a MIG machine every couple weeks, its seems like a real good investment.   Mike


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## brino (Aug 7, 2021)

Hmmmmm.....never heard of that before........ interesting.

In order to get more exposure and comments here's the Don' Engine episode:






And here is the company's website:
https://www.multiplaz.com/


I would also like to hear any first hand experiences, or general comments.....

-brino

EDIT: It is not cheap: https://shop.multiplaz.com/multiplaz3500.aspx
but if it really could replace other machines ..... who knows.....


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## Mike23 (Aug 7, 2021)

Thanks Brino. See I hadn't heard of it ether. He mention in that video that its a Russian invention.  He found out from the Farm guys, so maybe they know something that that we're just catching up with. Id like to know more for sure, but I did visit the Multiplaz site.  It does seem a bit expensive, but when I figure in what Argon bottles, tungsten, and all the other paraphernalia that Ide need for the Combo welder I was gonna buy, it almost seems like a bargain.  He also mentioned that he does Brazing with it, which kind of makes me think I could skip buying oxy-acetylene bottles every few months. That would be a saving's in its own. Just a thought.  Mike


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## f350ca (Aug 7, 2021)

Interesting ! Would have liked to see the other side of his 100% penetration welds.

Greg


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## brino (Aug 7, 2021)

f350ca said:


> Would have liked to see the other side of his 100% penetration welds.


Exactly!

Even the manufacturers videos here:
https://www.multiplaz.com/video

Are very light on info. 

They show some just okay "arc shots" but absolutely no close-ups of the welds top or bottom afterwards.
I would also like to see filling a v-groove with multiple passes and some serious testing of those welds; like cross-section or even put it in a vise and bending it over with a hammer.

-brino


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## Asm109 (Aug 7, 2021)

The aluminum welding video required flux.  Welder also put on some kind of glasses rather than an arc welding hood.

That is the classic setup for gas welding Aluminum.  The sodium flare from the flux is just intense, you need cobalt blue lenses or whatever the modern equivalent is to even see the puddle.


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## Mike23 (Aug 7, 2021)

That's why I ask... good points across the board. Seems like if NASA is using it, it must perform to a critical strength level. Also just finished reading up that they use them for making boilers in S Africa. ... Seems like some pretty bad ass stuff.  But I need to know as much as I can before i commit... but i'm really intrigued right now. Mike


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## C-Bag (Aug 8, 2021)

Very intriguing, never heard of this before. Thanks for posting Brino.

For me I wish the heads didn’t look like Flash Gordon ray guns. They look like toys. The power supply doesn’t look like that its all biz and looks high tech. 

Did anybody see how thick of steel the plasma cutter can cut? And what the equivalent Hypertherm would be? At $2500 it’s going to be hard to see what machines it would replace and what they cost to see if it’s a bargain or not.

 I would also love to see how it does on like 22ga steel and aluminum. It claims to have less warpage because less transfer of heat away from the weld even though it welds at way higher temp. That doesn’t make sense to me at all.


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## Superburban (Aug 8, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> Very intriguing, never heard of this before. Thanks for posting Brino.
> 
> For me I wish the heads didn’t look like Flash Gordon ray guns. They look like toys. The power supply doesn’t look like that its all biz and looks high tech.
> 
> ...


Cutting says 3/8" The hypertherm 45 says 5/8" cut.


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## aliva (Aug 8, 2021)

I'm skeptical If its so good why have very few of us heard of it. I'm not convinced yet.
I watched the video from Dons it looks like  a very poor weld. The  bead is uneven and all over the place. Since this guy was demonstrating it he should be able to weld better than that .Hard to determine the actual pentration and as mentioned what's the back look like. I'd like to see a proper test on a welding coupon.


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## brino (Aug 8, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> Very intriguing, never heard of this before. Thanks for posting Brino.



Actually @Mike23 is the one that first mentioned it...... I just did a little scrounging to try to understand it.

two other thoughts.....

I had to loosen a stuck bolt today. This came to mind as a source of pin-point heating. But I got it loose without having to resort to the oxyacetylene.

This "heat gun" configuration would be very awkward for welding and cutting. Did you see in the manufacturers video above how he split his fingers around the nozzle and then guides with the other hand.....

-brino


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## C-Bag (Aug 8, 2021)

brino said:


> This "heat gun" configuration would be very awkward for welding and cutting. Did you see in the manufacturers video above how he split his fingers around the nozzle and then guides with the other hand.....


Wait…WHAT!?!?! I didn’t see that.

Like others mentioned I wasn’t impressed with the look of his welds and from what I gather he’s a welding instructor. Maybe I’m just being picky. 

It’s not surprising I’ve not heard about this not being in the trades anymore. Along with the tendency for people to ignore the new and radically different.


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## brino (Aug 8, 2021)

C-Bag said:


> Wait…WHAT!?!?! I didn’t see that.



This was at 1:08 in the 2:22 cutting video here:
https://www.multiplaz.com/video




He's got the "barrel" of the gun between his first and second fingers on his left hand.
It just looks awkward.

-brino


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## Mike23 (Aug 9, 2021)

Hey guys. I'm kind of hyped about this Multiplaz now. AT 67 there's not too much that gets my motor runnin anymore.  So Saturday evening after getting off of here I went ahead and Emailed Don's Engine.  The guy Don actually got right back to me and then on Sunday we had a nice facetime talk. His bother was in on it too which was good.  His brother is a retired BIW ship welder and welding inspector with 40+ years in the biz.  He said that he also tried a Multiplaz a few years ago and now all his other equipment just collects dust. 

SO the conversation was pretty long and the main take ways I got were this.  The Multiplaz is never going to make the kind of welds a mig welder will. It welds from the bottom or root up.  Very Hot and narrow welds. They both say the weld pool is like stirring pudding with a stick. You end up taking for granted that the penetration is already at 100%.  His brother even took the piece that was demod and showed me the underside. Yup.. all the way through. Then he pretzeled it in a vise and pounded it out flat.  The metal took a beating but the weld was 100%.  Also Don is one of those way layed back guys that doesn't really seem to care about looks. Just performance.  The other thing I got was yes, he does use it for heating stuff like you would with a torch.  I also should have watched his video a little closer. He doesn't claim this tool to be perfect for every job.  Its just one of a the tools he uses which has risen to the top of the pile.  Which I get. I spent 35 years as chutes maintenance guy at the mines and Know you gotta have options and sometimes the tool you least expect to be your best does turn out to be your favorite. 

Best of all, it turns out that Don lives about 30 miles from my wifes mother. He invited me to come mess with it which I'm taking him up on when we head down there for her 95th in Oct.  So I may revisit this topic then after I get back. Maybe get some good pictures too.  Mike


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## General Zod (Aug 16, 2021)

It took him 8½ minutes to disassemble and clean then re-assemble.  In ¼ the time it took to make the little teapot stew and clean all that stuff, I will have already fired up the MIG, turned on the shielding gas, flap disc'd the parts clean, and made both of those welds.


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## Mike23 (Aug 17, 2021)

General Zod said:


> It took him 8½ minutes to disassemble and clean then re-assemble.  In ¼ the time it took to make the little teapot stew and clean all that stuff, I will have already fired up the MIG, turned on the shielding gas, flap disc'd the parts clean, and made both of those welds.


Ya, we talked about that too, but he did say in the video that its way faster going through it for real than it is actually doing. Its not something you do every time, Just on occasion when it needs it.  I spent 30 years dickin with a MIG and the maintenance and need for bottles all the time I'm sure took up more time than he'll ever use up with the Multiplaz.


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## C-Bag (Aug 17, 2021)

All good points. MIG is not maintenance free. It’s why I use flux core. I got tired of messing with gas. Not being a production shop I don’t weld every day and my rig needs to be stored away, then pulled out. My pack is so tight I have to pull the stinger because otherwise it hits the machines around it. It’s only a couple of minutes to clear the wire and connect up the stinger so no matter what there is set up involved.

It will be interesting to see what the field comparison will be with Multiplaz.


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## Mike23 (Aug 17, 2021)

Ya, I can't wait to try it out.  When I was working, I could just take stuff in to weld up. Now that I'm looking for a welder for home use, its a different story.   just have to many  memories fighting with that  MIG welder that I now I just want something more hassle free.  I have torch set thats good for brazing and gas welding etc..  But the prices on gas are getting out of hand now. at least where I live.


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## rwm (Aug 17, 2021)

Does anyone know the purpose of the isopropanol?
Robert


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## Mike23 (Aug 17, 2021)

Accordin to Don it burns off creating Co2 needed as an inert gas like you would use in MIG or Tig welding with Co2 or Argon or helium. I had to watch the video twice before I caught on to what he was saying.  Makes a lot of sense.


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## brino (Aug 22, 2021)

The other thing that stood out for me was at time 2:29 in this "cutting characteristics" video:
https://www.multiplaz.com/cutting_characteristics



> Remember when cutting non-conductive materials like ceramic tiles it must be done only in mode 1.



-brino


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## Mike23 (Aug 22, 2021)

That is pretty interesting. Ive never had to cut ceramics before, but it is a pretty neat option.


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## brino (Aug 22, 2021)

.....it shows that the ground wire (at least in mode 1) is NOT used to sustain the plasma current.
-brino


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## rwm (Aug 22, 2021)

I like the fact that it doesn't need a compressor to cut. I wonder how that would do on a CNC gantry?
Robert


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## Mike23 (Aug 22, 2021)

I forgot where i saw it, but some guy had it hooked up to a robot arm and it was welding sheet metal into tubes...


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