# A New Guy's Questions About Equipment Placement



## accokeek (Aug 9, 2015)

Laying out the shop portion of a new garage/workshop building (finally!).  The shop is 24'x24', has a 6' roll up door and will be used for both metal and woodworking.  I have a PM932PDF in bound and plan on buying either a 11x27LB or 12x28LB lathe in the near future.  Also have a Shopsmith MArk V (500) for woodworking.  So now on to my question, in playing with various equipment arrangements I shared drawings with a couple of people and one strongly suggested that instead of putting the mill in a corner and the lathe parallel to the wall, that I install them back to back and perpendicular to the shop wall to left of the rollup door.  That looks like it would be more efficient use of space, but I'm worried about "gotchas" and thought I'd ask the more experienced folks here on the list for thoughts, insights or flames


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## T Bredehoft (Aug 9, 2015)

Leave room between them for ease of sweeping, chips tend to build up where they don't get swept away regularly. But that 's minor. 

Its a good idea to have a work bench behind  you when working on a machine, somewhere you can place hand tools (like mikes or Allen wrenches.) These benches should be at a height that when you lean back they hit  your belt and not so far back that  you can't reach the E stop.  It makes for less open work spaces, but you're not running a show room.


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## RJSakowski (Aug 9, 2015)

I would not put the mill in the corner as it limits the size of any oversized work which might come up. 

A lathe can go reasonably close to the corner on the right hand side.  You need to leave enough room for access and maintenance but a workpiece is not likely to extend past the lathe bed.  More room is required for the left side.  You can extend bar stock for a short distance out of the headstock and that is where your drive  is.  If you have enough room, leave space behind the lathe for maintenance access.  You could place a wheeled cart with shelves above the lathe table height for tool storage.  Another way is to mount a swing out shelf on the wall behind the lathe. It can be swung tight to the wall for maintenance work or pulled out to access tools while you are at the lathe.

Regarding woodworking and metal working tools in the same room: IMO, wood dust and machine oil don't mix.  I did that years ago and really was not happy with the result.  Now, I have wood working in separate buildings.  If you can separate them in different partitions, great.  If not, I would suggest moving them as far apart as practical.  You might also consider covering the metal working machines when doing woodwork and vice versa.

Bob


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## Franko (Aug 9, 2015)

I had a combined machine and wood shop for about 7 years. It wasn't ideal but it worked. Everything in my wood shop is coated in sawdust, even though I have some dust collection. It never caused any huge problem with my machine tools. I just blew them off with an air hose when I used them. Keep them covered if you can. Keep your tooling in closed drawers.

The biggest problem I had was humidity. When it gets cold for  few days and then a warm humid front rolls through, cast iron sweats and rusts. I finally figured out to leave my ceiling shop heater on low all winter, not allowing the shop to get much below 55º. That slowed the condensation considerably. 

Leave about 4-5 feet on the left side of your lathe clear so you can feed long stock through the spindle bore. I had my mill on next to the tail stock end of my lathe and a little forward so I could mill the ends of long parts if necessary.


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## accokeek (Aug 9, 2015)

Thanks for the input guys, I guess, from the tenor of responses so far, it is better to have the mill and the lathe in line, rather than back to back.  Need to think about how that will work out given the locations of the doors.  I had planned on having the wood working tools on the opposite side of the shop, but will need to think further about dust collection and such.  Right now my machine tools are limited to a mill and a 4"x6" horizontal/vertical bandsaw for metal cutting.  Plan on adding a lathe after the financial and matrimonial dust settles from the construction.  I'm also giving serious consideration to putting ratcheting, leveling casters on milling machine base.  It was my original plan and would allow for relocation in the future.

As to HVAC, I live in Southern Maryland which has very hot humid summers and moderate, humid winters (close to the Chesapeake), so had planned and budgeted for both insulation and (for the moment) a 12-14k BTU mini-split which should take care of both humidity and providing a decent working temperature.  The shop area will have 2 skylights plus one 2'(H)x3'(W) window, so there will be reasonable natural light and I intend to add LED lighting as needed and affordable.  This is a big deal for me and I want to get it right as it will almost certainly be the last one I build.


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## RJSakowski (Aug 9, 2015)

A suggestion in an earlier post was to make a to scale floor plan with cutouts of your machines and thoughts of how you plan to use them.  For instance, with a table saw, it is handy to be able to rip a 10' board or cut a 4 x 8' sheet of plywood in half.    That takes a lot of room.  Having the saw on casters can cut down on the space but minimally, you would want to have the saw sitting in the middle of a 8 x 8" area when using it.  The floor plan will help to visualize it.

Bob


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## Muskt (Aug 9, 2015)

I will not comment on the placement of your machinery, since I feel that that is both a personal decision, and one to be based on real estate in the shop.

I will comment on the Mini-Split.  I installed one in my new shop in the winter, and feel that it is a winner.  If memory is reasonably correct, it is a 15 - 18K unit.  My shop is roughly 18 x 27 with 11 foot ceiling.  It has a 9 x 10 steel garage door which I insulated.  I have the Mini set to 76 and "economy" mode at nite and when I do not plan to be in there.  During my times in the shop, I reset it to 72 and "normal" and it is quite comfortable.  It does a good job at dehumidifying, too.  Since I live in central Delaware, my climate is very similar to yours.

Jerry


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## accokeek (Aug 9, 2015)

Jerry,
Wow, thanks for the report and reassurance on the mini-split, I considered a number of options and the mini-split seemed to be the best long term solution (not to mention more comfortable than others), although I may have to do some Manual J work and possibly upgrade the capacity a bit.  I have been reading and profiting from material and exchanges on this site for a bit over a year while the glacial process of permits, engineering studies and squabbles with the inspectors dragged on.  However, the framers are currently erecting the walls and the trusses are due next week, so it is time to get busy on internal layout issues, especially since it will drive outlet types and locations.  I really appreciate the help and insight that folks are providing

Someone observed that it was difficult to comment without a good idea of the real estate and that's true and I apologize.  I have attached a PDF of an elevation and floor plan for the building.  Perhaps TMI, but it would be difficult to translate my graph paper sketches to the computer.  I have fooled around with the room layout application on the Grizzly site, picking items that were about the same size as respective PM items (PM932 and PM1127 or 1228).  The garage portion belongs to vehicles and garden equipment, while the shop and more than half the storage area is mine.  In the long run both a compressor and a dust collector (TBD) will probably be relegated to the storage area and piped as needed to the shop and garage.  Thanks again for the ideas and observations provided so far


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## David VanNorman (Aug 9, 2015)

Darn nice place for a shop . If you are like me you will change things around as projects need . Just allow room at the left end of the lathe as then you don't have to always cut long stuff down. Make sure you have the long stuff supported so it doesn't whip around. Got to have heat for fall and winter just to keep the humidity down. I keep my shop around 45 to 50 unless I am going to be working then I'll take it to 65 or 70. If your mill is small enough you can put it on casters an move it out of the way when you don't need it.


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## Silverbullet (Aug 12, 2015)

There's no reason you can't  put all of your machines on wheels . Casters can be added to welded frames for just about everything you own . It makes moving them easy and cleaning a breeze. Plus if you need to have more room just move them around to fit. It's not hard to add leveling feet to the frames for the mill and the lathe long bolts or all thread work . I've been doing it to all of my machines and a little angle iron goes a long way . Casters can be had to hold any weight you have.


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## JimDawson (Aug 12, 2015)

I am not recommending this, but it seems to work.  Here is a 5000# machine on casters.  Two people can drag it across the floor.


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## accokeek (Aug 16, 2015)

Thanks to all for your input and ideas, particularly to silverbullet for reminding me about casters.  I had originally planned on using Foot Master GDR-80S leveling casters on the base of the PM932-PDF mill and there is no reason not to do the same thing on, the yet to be bought, lathe.  I will still play with possible layouts, including the idea of benches behind the machines, but by having leveling casters on both large items, I will have the flexibility to shift them around as needed.  Hit a glitch with the build in that the engineered trusses won't arrive until 22 August, so things are more or less at a standstill until they arrive.  Have to hope I can get the framing crew back to finish the job in a timely fashion.


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## gr8legs (Aug 16, 2015)

I have my mill and lathe back-to-back and it works very nicely. Neither is on casters but most everything else is and I'm often moving tools around to accommodate whatever project is in the shop. 

I have a pallet jack to move the mill and a set of skates for the lathe but so far have not been needed. 

One of these days I should post a 'shop tour'.

Stu


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