# Is a QCTP less rigid than the standard one supplied



## TQA222 (May 14, 2019)

I had sort of made up my mind not to bother with the QCTP route.   I am retired and will be taking my time with every step so the extra minute or two to change a tool is not significant. 

But I am aware that rigidity is an issue especially when turning steel. 
So which is the most rigid 

the original 4 sided toolpost 

OR this ali QCTP at 25$

OR the LMS steel one


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## T Bredehoft (May 14, 2019)

Properly assembled,I'd think they are about equal. All three beat out the Lantern type.


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## mikey (May 14, 2019)

I think the 4way post is the most rigid. It is also very cumbersome to use. I would go with a QCTP.


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## Latinrascalrg1 (May 14, 2019)

I would think either of the steel choices are gonna be more rigid  then the aluminum versions.  
To add to what Mikey was saying the stock tool post is not just Slow it is Cumbersome and aggravating because of the way you need to "Shim" your tooling with multiple/different thickness shim stock in order to meet centerline....this is not always the easiest thing to do and by comparison a properly setup lantern style tool-post can be more user friendly in this aspect IMHO.  So for this very reason alone I would suggest the qctp as well.


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## savarin (May 14, 2019)

On my flexi 9x20 lathe I found that it wasnt the tool post that was the problem it was the top slide.
I could visually see the tool post flex under some loads irrespective of whether I used the 4 way post or the qctp (wedge type from china, cheap).
Eventually I removed the top slide and replaced it with a solid plinth with a qctp. The difference is like chalk and cheese, way more solid.
I thread at 90' thats not caused a problem to dat, I only replace the top slide when I want a small taper cut.


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## benmychree (May 14, 2019)

Go with the qctp best of all worlds, but NOT the aluminum one.


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## martik777 (May 14, 2019)

I made a dozen or so of variations of this one:  http://steammachine.com/hercus/page6.html

Add a handle to tighten...


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## Dabbler (May 14, 2019)

I've mentioned this on several other threads, so please forgive if you've read this before.

A 4 way toolpost is not slower than a QCTP _*for most operatio*_*ns*.  All you have to do is mill the tool body (for an insert type) so that the tip is on centre.  then never again do you have to worry about the tool height.  ever.  change an insert, it's on centre.

For long operations where I use a turning tool, a facing tool, a chamfer tool, then a boring bar, I can put them all in my 4 way and index them as I need them.  Yes, it is a picky setup to mill then grind the tools so they are on center, (you only ever do it once) but the superior rigidity and ease of use has me still using my 4 way tool post often.

-- Don't get me wrong, I have an AXA on one lathe and a BXA on the other.  they are wonderful.  I have tools and situations where I'm happy to swap out the 4 way, and use the Aloris style. When it's good, it is very good! (Yes I have about 20 holders for each tool post)

When I'm turning wood, or doing internal grooving in steel, I use the lantern exclusively.  Yes I still use all 3 tool holders. I also find it easier to use small HSS tooling in a lantern.


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## Bob Korves (May 14, 2019)

I think it is more the type of work you will be doing.  For production work, a 4 way tool post will be fast to do tool changes, but slower to make a new setup for a new job.  The quick change tool post (QCTP) will be quicker to adjust to new operations on new projects.  Both are rigid when set up correctly.  Aluminum has a much lower modulus of elasticity, which means it flexes more, which also means it is less rigid...


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## Dabbler (May 15, 2019)

...Back to your original question:  On  my 12X37 lathe, the 4 way is far more rigid.  It shows mostly when parting off, but also allows me to take deeper cuts or faster cutting rates.  Mostly I take light cuts on that lathe anyway.

On my 10X40 lathe with the BXA, there is no noticeable difference in rigidity between the 4 way or QCTP.  Most of the play is in the compound slide anyway.

-- I hope this helps!


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## mickri (May 15, 2019)

Being a newbie at this machining hobby I don't have the experience to comment on the rigidity of different tool holders.  But I can comment on ease of use.  The lantern tool post is a royal PITA to use.  I use mine to get into tight places where the bulkier 4 way or my shop made QCTP don't fit.  Shimming the 4 way to get to center takes a little time to set up and you need a lot of different thickness shims to dial it in.  My QCTP is the easiest to use.  I made a Norman style QCTP like what Martik777 posted above.  Here's mine.







With any QCTP you will need lots of tool holders which can quickly get very expensive.  I made seven to start with and recently got the material to make 4 or 5 more.  The whole idea for using a QCTP is to have a tool holder for each type of tool that you need.  Having to change out the different tools defeats the purpose of a QCTP.






Making my QCTP was a very good learning experience.  I learned a lot making mine that I would not have learned if I just bought a QCTP.


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## jdedmon91 (May 15, 2019)

I agree on the rigidity issues, however on many lathes the compound and cross slide is a bigger problem. The tool post isn’t as big contributor. I love my QCTP. However I’ve taken great pains to keep the tooling close to the post. That’s one of the benefits of direct mount tooling like I modified. 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## royesses (May 15, 2019)

The 4 way holds the tool closer to the pivot point so it gives the tool less leverage to pull the tool down. So it is slightly more rigid. The mini lathe is not very rigid to begin with. It helps to keep all the gibs on the tight side and lock the ones not in use. But if you do a lot of operations on each work piece it can be tireing to change and shim the tools. I used a cheap set of feeler gauges to shim the different tools when I first purchased my mini. I quickly purchased the QTCP from LMS and every couple of months purchased more holders. The QTCP is very quick and easy to center the tools and is a joy to use. The LMS QTCP is a quality tool and is highly recommended. I did not realize how many tool changes are required for many small projects when I first started my learning curve. So if you don't mind shimming every tool the 4 way is very good.  Also the 4 way is made for 5/16" or 8mm tools. 3/8" or 10mm tools will be too high to use. The QTCP lets you use the larger toosl up to 1/2" or 12mm. The worst part is the expense. I think Mikey summed it up nicely. I am not a machinist, just a hobbyist so your mileage may vary.

Roy


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## ThinWoodsman (May 15, 2019)

I don't think the 4-way is as onerous as claimed. Basically you set up two commonly-used tools (or the ones that are difficult to set up, like a parting tool) more or less permanently, then use the other two slots for per-job tooling. Given how cheap 4-way posts are compared to QCTPs, it might not hurt to have a "standard" one with four permanent tools and an extra one to swap in when the job requires form tools, knurling, etc. 

Really, once you have made a lathe center height gauge, shimming is less of a problem, and you can always rubber-band a shim to its tool when removed from the toolpost.


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## T Bredehoft (May 15, 2019)

I used a four way I'd built for years, it was made for the lathe it was on, made to hold 3/4" insert tooling, any tool I put in was right on center. I eventually made some adaptors, (3/4 square with a 3/8 cut out on top) for 3/8 tooling.


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## Dabbler (May 15, 2019)

rouesses - I have _never _shimmed a tool in a 4 way tool post _in my life.  _I'm trying to say that for insert tools, you modify your tool holder once only, and then never need to set the height again.  Shims are never required!   I just can't stress this enough. 

- I am in the process of moving all my old tools from my old lathe to my new one:  they only require .002 grinding off to get to the same height.  (I could mill the .002, but why not use the SG?) Fix the 8 or so tools once, and they are all at centre height automatically!


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## TQA222 (May 15, 2019)

Thank you all for your comments.

I am going to stick with the 4 way toolpost as it seems to be the most rigid option as I can have minimum overhang.

I am not bothered with the extra time it takes to get the tool height right and will have some sets of feeler gauges for shims.


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## royesses (May 15, 2019)

Dabbler I understand that. But being a newby I tried 1/4" tools that were available at the time. They were carbide inserts and needed 1/8" shims to come to center.. I also tried some hand made HSS 5/16 that were ground a little shy of center and used feeler gauge shims for those. Remember this is on a mini lathe . I don't think any 2 mini lathes would have the same center height out of the factory. Now that I use mostly Warner hss insert tools with the QTCP I no longer need to shim. I realize that you as a pro know much much more than I ever will and would take your advice without question.

 I appreciate the members here who are pro's or advanced hobbyist's who are so willing to help out those of us who are just hobbyists learning a new craft for personal enjoyment. Not many machinists are willing to help or even have the time to. I have learned a lot from this forum. I usually give likes when I learn something but don't always give feedback on how your tips and tricks have helped me with a project. I just want to thank you all for the great help and attitudes that make it  so much fun to be on the forum.

Roy


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## Dabbler (May 15, 2019)

All good.  I just thought you didn't know about making the toolholders fit.  Apparently it seems rare to do so.


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## mmcmdl (May 15, 2019)

What do they use in machine shops ?  The Aloris wedges  are expensive but possibly for a good reason . If you plan on using the machine for a long period of time , the cost should be of no issue , plus it has a high resale value if you ever have the need to resell it .


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## Dabbler (May 15, 2019)

Most shops here use multifix, but they are not my fave.  When they get worn (because no one cleans out the chips) they are very unreliable.  New ones, and well kept ones are as good as an aloris.  the aloris wedge is one of the better toolposts, but I still find a lot of sue for my other ones as well...


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## T Bredehoft (May 15, 2019)

When I began my apprenticeship back in the dark ages before overhead belt drive....  The shop I apprenticed in had four lathes, one had a four way, the other three had lantern posts. I learned on the lantern posts because the journeymen hogged the 4 way. 
Eventually I built my 4 way. and kept it in the top of my tool box.  I had spacers to put under it for all three lathes.  40 years ago I moved and went to a different shop, There we had a mix of 4 ways and Aloris types. But there few  Aloris tool holders, we still had to set the tool height because everyone kept their tooling in their boxes.  Management wouldn't buy enough holders for every use. 

Now, as a hobbyist I can make all the holders I want.


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## Ulma Doctor (May 16, 2019)

i can imagine life without a QCTP on any of my lathes.
i learned with a lantern toolpost long ago, but knew there had to be a better way
4 ways always proved a PITA to me, i tried a couple, then rapidly sold them to get QCTP's
i won't use anything else now


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