# G0602 Compound Problems. Thoughts, Ideas?



## Old Squier (Jan 1, 2017)

Happy New Year lads!  Hope I'm in the right spot for my question.  Looked in knowlege-base, but didn't find anything precisely on point.

My Grizzly G 0602 lathe compound slide is experiencing extreme foulage.  It's either tight as hide or horribly loose.  Not only that, but both of these undesirable conditions exist along the entire travel of the slide.  Moreover, it comes to a hard stop well short of full extension.  I've worked with the gib adjustment to no avail.  Backlash too, is awful on both compound and cross slide.  Again, adjustment procedures in manual meet with negative results.

Do I just need to undertake a total disassembly/rebuild on this little machine?  My principal lathe is a high-quality precision toolroom machine with perfect, silky-smooth operation.  It is totally trouble -free, whereas this beast has been a real POS from the get-go.  It's making me crazy.  Any pointers on disassembly will also be most happily received.

Thanks in advance boys!


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## tlrascal (Jan 1, 2017)

Hey Old Squier, you are not too far from me as I am near Fort Smith.  You can come over and see what I have done to the cross slide to help rigidity.


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## RJSakowski (Jan 1, 2017)

Squier, How old is your 602?  Due to the relatively little use the compound lead screw sees under normal conditions, I wouldn't expect to see wear but you could have hardened lube deposits or rust which will make movement difficult. When you say either loose or tight does this occur with each revolution of the crank or  does it vary from one end to the other of travel?  A variation as you rotate the crank could indicate a bent lead screw whereas a variation with position of the compound would more likely be due to a misadjusted gib.  Full travel on my compound is about 4.2"

I would suggest pulling the compound off  for cleaning, inspection, and lubrication.  The compound lead screw has no convenient means for lubrication of the lead screw,ior thrust bearing.  

There is no lash adjustment for the compound lead screw other than thrust bearing play. The cross slide lead screw has an adjustment for lash in the lead screw nut.  However, the manual's description is incorrect.  The cap screw that they describe as the adjustment is actually the nut retaining screw and should be tight.  Just forward of the cap screw is a cone point set screw which wedges into a split in the nut to provide bias and remove lash.  This is part 920 in the parts diagram.  Between that adjustment and the adjustment for thrust bearing play, you should be able to reduce backlash to an acceptable level.  When adjusting lash, you need to check for freedom pof movement at the extremes of travel which normally don't see as much wear.

Disassembly is fairly straightforward.  The compound can easily be removed by loosening the gib screws and backing the compound off until the  lead screw clears the nut. When reassembling make sure the slot in the gib nests the center adjustment setscrew.

The 602 is not a tool room lathe by any stretch of the imagination but then neither is the price.  It does have shortcomings as supplied. but I have found it to be a reasonably well made machine that benefits greatly from some customization and tuning.  

BTW, the set screw, part 920, was missing from my lathe when I bought it.  A call to Grizzly got a replacement.


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## bosephus (Jan 1, 2017)

i think  the best  two things  you can do to improve your compound  is to make a four bolt clamp  to improve rigidity .

and  rework the gibb and screws .      my gibb strip was not even close to being flat .  like you  my compound went from to tight to way to loose .

i spend an hour or two with a stone and worked it untill it was as flat as i could make it ,  and then went to work on the set screws .  
i made three new screws to replace the factory junk  and then  drilled and tapped two new  holes in-between the three factory  holes .

i think the addition of the two new set screws made all of the difference


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## Old Squier (Jan 1, 2017)

tlrascal said:


> Hey Old Squier, you are not too far from me as I am near Fort Smith.  You can come over and see what I have done to the cross slide to help rigidity.


Hey Rascal - thanks for your reply! Yeah, I'm not too far at all - 10 miles, or so, northeast of Tahlequah near the AR line.  I would love to see what you have done.  I've never sent a PM using Tapatalk. But, I'll try to figure it out tommorrow and see when we can get together.  

Squier a/k/a "Paul".



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## Old Squier (Jan 1, 2017)

Hi RJ!  Than you for your informative post.

First, I want to apologize if it sounded like I was trashing the G0602.  I'm sure it's basically an okay machine. I've just had a LOT of problems with it.  Bad motor, sand pillar to post, tailstock won't accept any of the three arbors Grizzly provided, so drilling anything properly is out till I have time to take it apart fand perhaps make some new/better parts.  I know others who have had terrific results from their machines.  So, not trashing it at all, just frustrated.

Okay, my lathe was new in April 2016, manufactured  (if my failing memory is correct) in the summer of 2015.

The compound slide wobbles side-to-side with each turn of the crank.  The problems of too loose/tight vary from end to end, and is especially tight near the end of its range of travel.  

I will definitely pull the compound as you and "Bocephus" suggest, to clean, repair, or replace any parts as needed.  

The discrepancy in the manual you mentioned is noted.  Unfortunately, not the only discrepancy I've found.  (The tailstock arbor for drill chuck).

I shall also attempt, with as much attention and focus as I can muster, to adjust the lash again.  Maybe I missed something on my previous 10-12 attempts.  I will also be certain part 920 is in place.

Thanks again RJ, I'll post again and let you know how it goes.

Paul




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## bosephus (Jan 1, 2017)

give some consideration to adding the two extra Gibb screws ...  it will put and keep  a lot more surface in contact  .  
the three factory screws just aren't enough .   

if the tail stock isnt right right i would give some serious thought  to sending it back to grizzly


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## Old Squier (Jan 1, 2017)

bosephus said:


> i think  the best  two things  you can do to improve your compound  is to make a four bolt clamp  to improve rigidity .
> 
> and  rework the gibb and screws .      my gibb strip was not even close to being flat .  like you  my compound went from to tight to way to loose .
> 
> ...


Thank you Bocephus, for your suggestions.  I've sure been lucky to catch your attention as well as that of RJ and Rascal.  Looks as though the solution is going to lie in pulling the compound and tataking the action you guys reccomend.  Then, try to hook-up with Rascal and see what he's done to his machine to increase rigidity.

As I mentioned before, I'll post again and let you know the results.

Thank again, Squier/Paul

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## Old Squier (Jan 1, 2017)

bosephus said:


> give some consideration to adding the two extra Gibb screws ...  it will put and keep  a lot more surface in contact  .
> the three factory screws just aren't enough .
> 
> if the tail stock isnt right right i would give some serious thought  to sending it back to grizzly


Hey Bocephus!

Yeah, I can add the extra gib screws.  Sounds like a great idea if it will help cure this doggone problem.

Oh yeah, as for the tailstock, I did send it back.  They said they would have someone look at it and report back before they sent out a replacement.  Well, that didn't happen. Rather they sent me a new tailstock that was too tall.  Can you believe they suggested I mill the bottom of the damned thing to get it to the correct height?: I told them they were nuts and requested another, correct, tailstock.  It was at the correct height, but had the same issues as the first one.  Ha, ha!  A tech at Grizzly finally told me the truth:  They really have no way to replace a tailstock with certainty as to height, whether or not a drill chuck arbor should have a tang or not, etc... This is because the factory that makes them changes specs willy-nilly and no one at Grizzly has any clue what tailstock shipped with a particular lathe.  Great, huh?

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## bosephus (Jan 1, 2017)

oh you defiantly need to  cut off any tang that might be on an arbor .     matter of fact except for dead centers  i have had to cut every arbor off right right before the start of the  taper to get the full usable  quill travel .    
having your tail stock a little high shouldn't be an issue  even if its .004 -.005  to high   heck someone who knows more then me might even allow for it being higher then that .  
i think .001-002   to high is a common practice to allow for wear  .    

to my thinking it is much more important that it lines up on the same axis without any nod


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## Old Squier (Jan 2, 2017)

bosephus said:


> oh you defiantly need to  cut off any tang that might be on an arbor .     matter of fact except for dead centers  i have had to cut every arbor off right right before the start of the  taper to get the full usable  quill travel .
> having your tail stock a little high shouldn't be an issue  even if its .004 -.005  to high   heck someone who knows more then me might even allow for it being higher then that .
> i think .001-002   to high is a common practice to allow for wear  .
> 
> to my thinking it is much more important that it lines up on the same axis without any nod


Bocephus.  Thanks for your comments.  I thought about grinding off the tang - the Grizzly tech told me not to bother.  The manual, which supposedly applies to 602's on pg. 32, Fig. 35, actually depicts an arbor with a tang being inserted in the quill.

I'll grind it off tommorrow!

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## Old Squier (Jan 2, 2017)

Oh, BTW Bocephus, the height differential was on the order of 1/4".  Way off-axis.  Bad bull.

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## RJSakowski (Jan 2, 2017)

I cut the tangs and/or shortened the tangs as well.  You can leave the tangs on but they will decrease the useful travel of the tailstock quill.  I trim them so they eject at about .05" short of full retraction.


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## Old Squier (Jan 2, 2017)

RJSakowski said:


> I cut the tangs and/or shortened the tangs as well.  You can leave the tangs on but they will decrease the useful travel of the tailstock quill.  I trim them so they eject at about .05" short of full retraction.


Unfortunately, RJ, the arbor (which does have a tang, will not seat or lock-up at all.  So....drilling without the chuck twisting around like crazy is the result.  I use this lathe primarily to turn blocks of briar wood that I shape into tobacco pipes.  I usually drill the tobacco chamber with a 3/4" modified Silver  & Deming bit.  You can imagine what fun it is to drill while holding the chuck in place by hand.

Thanks RJ.....Squier

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## entityunknown (Jan 2, 2017)

You might find it's the saddle/apron that's not as tight as you want. I kept blaming the cross slide on my G8688 but I found it was the saddle. Push down as hard as you can on the saddle and take a cut and see if it doesn't stop. The last thing I had to do to fix everything was switch over to carbide inserts, not the carbide brazed soft steel tools. The brazed worked great for Al but made noises of horror with steel unless it's an acute pointed tool. 
If still no go, you might want to consider brass gibs or changing out your set screws to use something like cupped set screws and balls from a bearing to seat your gibs. Maybe use some heavy thread locker too. Make sure you're also holding the set screw with the allen key as you tighten the lock nut with box wrench since a socket will ensure you over tighten your set screws.


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## Old Squier (Jan 2, 2017)

Good morning Entity.  Thanks for your comment!

I will certainly check out the saddle.  I'm thinking the set screws now on the lathe are crap.  Replacement, as you and others have suggested should likely be replaced with better ones.  Brass gins are an interesting idea too.

I use this little lathe, primarily, to turn briar wood blocks for tobacco pipes rather than turning metal.  I have a much bigger, better lathe for that.  Still, I do turn AI from time to time and I have threaded stainless rod stock a time or two.  I found regular, old homemade HSS to be pretty good, carbide inserts very good, and brazed carbide to be not so good, but okay for AI.  The best finish I've had for AI has been HSS.  Carbide inserts seem to be the best overall performer.  Slow speeds when threading can sometimes be a challenge for carbide inserts, but they're best overall.

Thanks again for your suggestions! With any luck at all will be able 2 work on the machine today sometime. I'll be posting the results here. Think good thoughts for me. Haha!


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## RJSakowski (Jan 2, 2017)

Lash in the cross slide is the amount of movement in the feed dial before you see movement of the cross slide when you reverse direction.  The saddle position is fixed by the v groove riding on the lathe way.  It cannot move forward or back from that position.  It is possible that it could be lifting if the slide block (P/N 917) is loose but it shouldn't have a large effect on lash, if any. Likewise, cross slide gib adjustment, will not materially affect lash if loose.  Over-tightening the gib will affect lash by requiring more effort to move the cross slide though.  This causes torquing of the lead screw and increased pressure on the thrust bearing which will be seen as lost motion or lash.

You can adjust the thrust bearing preload by moving the cross slide to the rear of the lathe so the lead screw is freed from the nut.  Any resistance to rotation of the crank will now be due solely to the thrust bearing preload.  Tighten up the preload until you start to feel increased resistance and back it off slightly from there.  This should be close to your optimum adjustment.  Reengage the cross feed nut by pulling the cross slide towards you as you rotate the crank.  If you have difficulty moving the slide, you may have to loosen the gib.  Adjust the cross feed nut set screw for a minimum movement of the crank before you feel resistance as you rock the crank back and forth.  Grizzly recommends not trying to reduce the lash below .001" as a tighter adjustment increases wear on the components.  

Note that having lash in the cross slide is not a terrible thing.  Lots of older lathes have significant amounts of lash due to wear of the lead screw or nut and still are capable of doing precision work. If the lash is too great and the gibs are loose, it can contribute to chatter though.

To adjust the gib, I back off all the adjustments so the gib is free.  With the cross slide in about the middle of travel, I tighten the center set screw until resistance to movement is observed and back it off slightly ( about 10º).  Holding the screw in that position with an Allen wrench, I lock the jam nut.  Then I bring the cross slide forward and adjust the rear set screw and finally, I move the cross slide to the rear and adjust the front set screw.  Properly adjusted, the cross slide should move freely but there should be no discernible movement of the cross slide if you try to move it from side to side.

I use a similar procedure to adjust the lash and play on the compound.


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## tmarks11 (Jan 2, 2017)

Old Squier said:


> Unfortunately, RJ, the arbor (which does have a tang, will not seat or lock-up at all.


Probably a silly question: did you extend the quill about an 1" before seating the arbor?  The machine is designed to eject the MT arbor when you turn the quill back to 0", so it will never allow the arbor to seat until you extend the quill a bit.  Not unique to this lathe, many lathes are designed like that.

People cut the tang off the arbor to get the last inch of travel, and defeat the "self ejecting" feature.


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## RJSakowski (Jan 2, 2017)

I am intrigued by your tailstock issue.  If you extend the tailstock quill about 2", are you still unable to get a Morse taper shank to lock?  It would seem strange to have an improperly machined socket as they are usually finished with a reamer.  If you can lock a shank in the socket at 2" extension but it comes loose before you fully retract the quill, the lead screw is pushing the taper out.  This is a desirable feature as there is no other practical way to remove a seated shank.

My MT3 shanks are cut to a length of 2.8" which will eject them are about .05" before full retraction of the quill.  Prior to cutting the tanged shack on the drill chucks would eject at more than 1".  The two MT3 dead centers that came with the lathe eject at about 5/8" but since, I am not concerned with maximizing the available travel when using the center, I left them as-is.

If you continue to have issues, there is a work-around.  I have a quick change tool post which come with a 3/4" boring bar tool holder and a drill chuck with a 3/4" shank.    It is more of a PITA to set it up as you have to get the cross slide centered, the height correct,  and the angle correct but it is used preferably by others to drill on the lathe because it permits using the power feed to advance the drill.  Because of all the adjustments, it is also possible to accurately center the chuck on the spindle axis, allowing more precise holes to be drilled.


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## Old Squier (Jan 2, 2017)

RJSakowski said:


> Lash in the cross slide is the amount of movement in the feed dial before you see movement of the cross slide when you reverse direction.  The saddle position is fixed by the v groove riding on the lathe way.  It cannot move forward or back from that position.  It is possible that it could be lifting if the slide block (P/N 917) is loose but it shouldn't have a large effect on lash, if any. Likewise, cross slide gib adjustment, will not materially affect lash if loose.  Over-tightening the gib will affect lash by requiring more effort to move the cross slide though.  This causes torquing of the lead screw and increased pressure on the thrust bearing which will be seen as lost motion or lash.
> 
> You can adjust the thrust bearing preload by moving the cross slide to the rear of the lathe so the lead screw is freed from the nut.  Any resistance to rotation of the crank will now be due solely to the thrust bearing preload.  Tighten up the preload until you start to feel increased resistance and back it off slightly from there.  This should be close to your optimum adjustment.  Reengage the cross feed nut by pulling the cross slide towards you as you rotate the crank.  If you have difficulty moving the slide, you may have to loosen the gib.  Adjust the cross feed nut set screw for a minimum movement of the crank before you feel resistance as you rock the crank back and forth.  Grizzly recommends not trying to reduce the lash below .001" as a tighter adjustment increases wear on the components.
> 
> ...


Got the compound slide off and found the gib to have really big burrs on both ends.  Weird, but true.  So I fixed that issue.  Lead screw looked okay, so I continued. Then I found the big culprit!  The blind, threaded hole into which the leadscrew turns is mangled up pretty bad.  That is, the internal threads are trashed.  I'm referring here to the hole in the swivel base.  Called Grizzly and have a new one and a new leadscrew for good measure, on the way via UPS.

Hopefully, this will resolve the problem.  Next, I'll take up the lash problem on the cross slide and return to the tailstock issue.  THANK YOU ALL for your help!  

So, I'm forging ahead.  Will post results as I go along.

Squier

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## Old Squier (Jan 2, 2017)

tmarks11 said:


> Probably a silly question: did you extend the quill about an 1" before seating the arbor?  The machine is designed to eject the MT arbor when you turn the quill back to 0", so it will never allow the arbor to seat until you extend the quill a bit.  Not unique to this lathe, many lathes are designed like that.
> 
> People cut the tang off the arbor to get the last inch of travel, and defeat the "self ejecting" feature.


T marks , not a silly question at all.  The answer is "yes", I do extend the quill before trying to seat the arbor.  You're certainly right, all tailstocks are similar in their operation.  It's the way it worked on every lathe I've ever worked on, and before I retired I worked on several in the shops that employed me.

Thanks again,

Squier


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## Old Squier (Jan 2, 2017)

RJSakowski said:


> I am intrigued by your tailstock issue.  If you extend the tailstock quill about 2", are you still unable to get a Morse taper shank to lock?  It would seem strange to have an improperly machined socket as they are usually finished with a reamer.  If you can lock a shank in the socket at 2" extension but it comes loose before you fully retract the quill, the lead screw is pushing the taper out.  This is a desirable feature as there is no other practical way to remove a seated shank.
> 
> My MT3 shanks are cut to a length of 2.8" which will eject them are about .05" before full retraction of the quill.  Prior to cutting the tanged shack on the drill chucks would eject at more than 1".  The two MT3 dead centers that came with the lathe eject at about 5/8" but since, I am not concerned with maximizing the available travel when using the center, I left them as-is.
> 
> If you continue to have issues, there is a work-around.  I have a quick change tool post which come with a 3/4" boring bar tool holder and a drill chuck with a 3/4" shank.    It is more of a PITA to set it up as you have to get the cross slide centered, the height correct,  and the angle correct but it is used preferably by others to drill on the lathe because it permits using the power feed to advance the drill.  Because of all the adjustments, it is also possible to accurately center the chuck on the spindle axis, allowing more precise holes to be drilled.


Hi RJ!

Extending the quill about 45mm to 50mm and attempting to seat the Morse Taper is a "no-go" on my tailstock.  It just refuses to lock-up.

As mentioned earlier, my arbor had a tang.  I just finished grinding the tang off.  I'll be working on the lash and tailstock problems later today or this evening.   I'll post the results here.

Thank you very much for your interest in my problem.  

Cheers,

Squier


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## tlrascal (Jan 2, 2017)

I live in Lavaca AR and would love to meet you and show you the mods I have made and share ideas with you.  I have a G0752 which is the same lathe with variable speed.  I have a G0759 mill with DRO and a G0720R mill I am just starting to use.  It sounds like you have quite a bit more machining knowledge than I have but I am learning.  I just turned 72 and have only been doing metalworking for about 3 years.  I am retired and spend most of my time at home working on various projects.  I have a friend Ray Kirk who lives in Talequah and does metalwork mostly knives.  You might know him.


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## Old Squier (Jan 2, 2017)

Howdy Rascal!  Really look forward to meeting you and talking shop.  I sent you a PM using Tapatalk.  It has my contact info.  Send me a PM and let me know how to get in touch so we can work out a day to meet.  By the way, I'm certainly no expert.  I'm a retired Gunsmith and learned to do some lathe work from my boss in a very busy Dallas shop.  Lot's of small jobs mostly.  I'm 57, but feel a little older.  I've had a cardiac tumor, brain tumor, and now they tell me I'm gonna croak from end-stage liver disease.  I'm talking to the transplant guys about getting one.  On top of all this mess, I'm diabetic, suffer from diabetes, lupus, pad, perpheral neuropathy and osteoarthritis.  Still kicking though and making chips fly!

I look forward to hearing from you.

Old Squier A/K/A Paul Mills



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## Old Squier (Jan 2, 2017)

Hey RJ....

I disassembled the tailstock did C&O and reduced friction.  Removed a giant chunk of Cosmo from the doggone thing too.  Then I tried the arbor/drill chuck from which I ground off the tang.  VOILA!!!   SUCCESS!!!

Thanks everyone who helped our with this issue.

Squier

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## Dean Segovis (Jan 8, 2017)

Wow! I just read through this and other threads regarding the G0602. I was almost going to buy one for my restoration business but now I'm considering doing a full restoration on my 1944 SB 9A. I truly believe I will end up with a better machine in the end AND leave $1500 in my bank account. If I were to spend that much money I would NOT be happy fixing flaws in the equipment right out of the box! Thanks for sharing your experiences Squire. Hope that beast keeps working well for you with minimal fixes.


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## tmarks11 (Jan 8, 2017)

Old Squier said:


> T marks , not a silly question at all.  The answer is "yes", I do extend the quill before trying to seat the arbor


On these forums, it is often hard to determine the level of experience of the participants.  I have read postings from people with their first lathe who don't understand how that works and think it is broken.

Good to hear that it was an easy fix and not a manufacturing issue.


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## Old Squier (Jan 8, 2017)

Dean Segovis said:


> Wow! I just read through this and other threads regarding the G0602. I was almost going to buy one for my restoration business but now I'm considering doing a full restoration on my 1944 SB 9A. I truly believe I will end up with a better machine in the end AND leave $1500 in my bank account. If I were to spend that much money I would NOT be happy fixing flaws in the equipment right out of the box! Thanks for sharing your experiences Squire. Hope that beast keeps working well for you with minimal fixes.


Dean,

Whatever you do, don't buy one of these lathes!  Keep your SB and spruce it up.  Thank God I have a Precision Matthews 1340GT for turning metal.  Looking to add a Summit or PM 1660 this year.   I just use the G0602 for turning blocks of briar wood to make tobacco pipes.  It doesn't even do that well.  It's an ongoing project for me. 

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## Old Squier (Jan 8, 2017)

tmarks11 said:


> On these forums, it is often hard to determine the level of experience of the participants.  I have read postings from people with their first lathe who don't understand how that works and think it is broken.
> 
> Good to hear that it was an easy fix and not a manufacturing issue.


Tmarks,

Thanks for your remarks.  I have a fair amount of experience operating machine tools, but I'm a lousy mechanic!  I live way, way out in the boonies - nothing but deer, possums, coons, foxes, and such.  No way you get any help from anyone out here.  So I'm forced to be my own mechanic even though I stink at it.

Best regards,

Squier

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## Dean Segovis (Jan 8, 2017)

Old Squier said:


> Dean,
> 
> Whatever you do, don't buy one of these lathes!  Keep your SB and spruce it up.  Thank God I have a Precision Matthews 1340GT for turning metal.  Looking to add a Summit or PM 1660 this year.   I just use the G0602 for turning blocks of briar wood to make tobacco pipes.  It doesn't even do that well.  It's an ongoing project for me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk


Thanks for the feedback. I just spent the better part of this afternoon going over my SB. It's needing a lot of work to bring it back to a decent spec. I simply do NOT have the time for that. It runs and all the feeds work OK but the ways are a bit worn and everything has a lot of backlash. I think it's time to post it up on Craigslist and just pull the trigger on a 12" lathe.


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## Old Squier (Jan 8, 2017)

Dean Segovis said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I just spent the better part of this afternoon going over my SB. It's needing a lot of work to bring it back to a decent spec. I simply do NOT have the time for that. It runs and all the feeds work OK but the ways are a bit worn and everything has a lot of backlash. I think it's time to post it up on Craigslist and just pull the trigger on a 12" lathe.


Dean,

Take a look at the Precision Matthews 12x36 lathe.  It's a terrific machine.  You can also connect here with "RayC".  He's the man to talk to about all things PM.  Also, when you call PM at Quality Machine Tools, ask for Matt.  He's the owner and a hell of a good guy, in addition to being a supporter of this site and a regular here too.

Cheers,

Squier

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## Dean Segovis (Jan 9, 2017)

Hey Squier,

I arrived at the PM1030V after MUCH research yesterday. Looks like a great machine and it's within my budget. Variable speed, power cross feed, right and left hand threading, 4 way quick change tool post and more. 
More info here: http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1030.html.  I'll call Matt today and inquire. Thanks!


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## Dean Segovis (Jan 9, 2017)

Just ordered the PM1030V. $2098 shipped!


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## mmprestine (Jan 9, 2017)

Strange issues, I have had a G0602 for years and it is a wonderfull little lathe.  Does all that I have asked of it and cannot image how you are having such problems with yours.


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## Dean Segovis (Jan 9, 2017)

I've noticed that Grizzly's machines are very inconsistent. In the past week I've been reading tons of posts and reviews on several machines. Some folks have no problems with a particular model, then other people have many problems with the same model. I think it's due to the lack of consistent quality control procedures at the Chinese factories that produce them.


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## Greebles (Jan 9, 2017)

Dean Segovis said:


> I've noticed that Grizzly's machines are very inconsistent. In the past week I've been reading tons of posts and reviews on several machines. Some folks have no problems with a particular model, then other people have many problems with the same model. I think it's due to the lack of consistent quality control procedures at the Chinese factories that produce them.



This is true for all import machines including those sold by PM. I have a G0752 (G0602 w/ VFD) and have had zero issues. I also have a PM-727M which I had to have completely replaced. What matters is the level of support you can expect from a given seller. Matt at PM does an excellent job of providing customer service on his machines. He replaced my defective PM-727M at zero cost to me. It only cost me time and frustration.

-Denzil


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## Old Squier (Jan 9, 2017)

Dean Segovis said:


> Just ordered the PM1030V. $2098 shipped!


Dean,

I hope you love your 1030!  I have the 1340, but I need a smaller, second lathe.  Think I just might ditch the little 1022 Grizzly and join you in ordering a PM 1030.

Have fun brother!

Squier

Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma


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## Old Squier (Jan 9, 2017)

mmprestine said:


> Strange issues, I have had a G0602 for years and it is a wonderfull little lathe.  Does all that I have asked of it and cannot image how you are having such problems with yours.


Yeah, mmprestine, My G0602 has been horrendous.  It's still in warranty (until 03-26-17) and I'm seriously thinking about trying to send it back for a refund.  Figured out today that the Swivel Base #202 on both the original part and a replacement are improperly machined - both sinificantly off.  The tech told me he sees this a lot!  Not good.  Also figured out today that the protractor is off by about 3mm.  Nice huh?  I know many people have had great luck with Grizzly machines, I'm just not one of them.  They are good about sending warranty parts, so that's something I guess.  You know I think it says something when my PM 1340 has a 5 Year Warranty.  That's 4 Years longer than Grizzly.  I  believe our friend Dean, who just ordered the PM 1030V will get a 3 Year warranty.  The only difference with mine being that mine is made in Taiwan.  Matt at PM is a super guy and his team really do a fine job with their customer service.  Anyway, I'm really glad your lathe is working out for you!

Best regards,

Squier 

Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma


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## entityunknown (Jan 15, 2017)

I found that if you setup the gibs correctly on the Grizzly (and any machine that uses gibs), the whole unit is very stable. It came pretty well decent but if you want absolute precision, you need to make a super precise tuning effort. Grizzly seemed to skimp where it was reasonable but not where it was important and with a mini lathe, well it's a mini lathe. 

A new Grizzly also doesn't cost anywhere near a new one of any of the "preferred" brands, and they are very upgradeable while sold in a wide variety so you can focus your money where you need it.  If you happen to have a big bad arse lathe, well of course you should probably keep it, if you're gonna use it and if you've got the space.

It's not like most people are helping out the American manufacturing either since most people are not rich enough to purchase a brand new US made unit and likely rarely buy brand new replacement parts directly from those American Manufacturers (because they're too expensive). So without paying them directly, you're just simply giving an American person selling a used machine some money or you're paying a few people that were involved in the final assembly, checks, shipping, and customer service that sold you that new Asian machine. Now if you bought a brand new US made machine, then bravo to you, thanks for keeping the US MFG alive and some may envy your cash flow.

You also have precision machined ways and all that with the Asian models but with a used machine of any type, it'll take some time to verify if you do or not. How well did the previous owner(s) handle the machine too and exactly how good of a machinist were they? Hand fixing all that can take a lot of time and depending on your skill level, you may make things worse. There is also usually a major weight difference depending on the class lathe you buy since the US doesn't really make mini lathes. 

Bolting down the mini lathe seems key as well. Makes sense since the reason big lathes are so big is because they need to be heavy/solid otherwise you get chatter plus it's for industrial purposes so it holds industrial sized objects. If any lathe/rotational cutting tool has any wobble at it's base, you're gonna hate your results if you want them to be professional quality.

It all depends on your needs, space, money, skill, opportunity, and time. The truth is any good machinist can turn out solid product on any machine as long as it's solid with the proper tool and the part fits. I also chose to put my big money into a big mill while I've got a light investment in my mini lathe but that's what made sense for me


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## HBilly1022 (Jan 15, 2017)

I've got a King 1022ML, which is the Canadian version of the G0602. Parts are interchangeable and it's made in the same factory as the Grizzly. This has been confirmed by King Canada. I have also had a lot of problems with this lathe including the swivel base. I replaced that part twice before I got one that was machined close to enough to work pretty good. On the first one, one of the dovetails was machined with a longitudinal taper from one end to the other. Took me a while to figure out why it was impossible to adjust the gibs to get them to work through the whole travel. Then one of the gibs had casting flaws in it and got that replaced. One of the swivel bases also had the dovetail machined too low and as a result the gib was riding high on it and because of the location of the adjusting screws the gib would tilt up and only ride along the top edge of the dovetail. Lots more issue too. But after a year with it I think I have resolved most of the issues. It still is not sturdy enough to do any parting but I know there is a fix for that. One of the reasons I kept mine was because there is a big following of this lathe and lots of information available on the web, for fixes and upgrades. Also Grizzly and King stock parts for them. As one owner stated these lathes are "_a work in progress_".

I can also see that some owners would have good results with them. When I was working through the first issues with my lathe, the dealer allowed me to swap parts from another lathe that was delivered but got damaged in transit. That damaged lathe had none of the issues my lathe had. So it would appear decent ones can be had. Just not by me.


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## xman_charl (Jan 15, 2017)

My feed lever will drag, G0602.

Was using the cross feed, noticed this.

Now hold it up by hand, when using the cross feed, no more drag, feed screw.

Will repair this someday.

Oh, did I mention the spinning drill chuck in the tail stock?

Have several chuck mounted to a mt3, both will spin with heady drilling, 1/2 drill or larger.

This spinning has been fixed.

Charl


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## Old Squier (Jan 17, 2017)

entityunknown said:


> I found that if you setup the gibs correctly on the Grizzly (and any machine that uses gibs), the whole unit is very stable. It came pretty well decent but if you want absolute precision, you need to make a super precise tuning effort. Grizzly seemed to skimp where it was reasonable but not where it was important and with a mini lathe, well it's a mini lathe.
> 
> A new Grizzly also doesn't cost anywhere near a new one of any of the "preferred" brands, and they are very upgradeable while sold in a wide variety so you can focus your money where you need it.  If you happen to have a big bad arse lathe, well of course you should probably keep it, if you're gonna use it and if you've got the space.
> 
> ...


Hi Entity.  You make some good observations - thanks for your contributions to this thread!

You know, I'll admit that I hate this machine.  I bought it to turn briar wood blocks that I use to make tobacco pipes.  I've never tried to turn metal with it.  I have a Precision Matthews 1340GT that I use for gunsmithing work.  It's a very nice Taiwanese lathe.  My real passion, however, lies in the really great European machine tools like Aciera, Deckel, Hembrug, and the like.  I'm sort of re-arranging and enlarging my shop to work on machines of this class and I'll be getting away from gunsmithing to do this full-time.  I'm even going to try my hand at importing used machines from Europe.  Ambitious?  Yeah, I guess it is.  Still, I think I can do it.  I say all the time that I'm a terrible mechanic.  Well, that's not really true.  Actually, I'm pretty good.  At least I'm good when I'm working on a good machine.  I think that's because it is a true pleasure to work on an Aciera, for example.  Those machines are exquisitely designed and made.  No corners are cut, period.  In my book, they almost rise to the level of art.  Conversely, my little Grizzly lathe is junk - pure and simple.  Every time I look at it, it pisses me off.  Now, I fully appreciate that some of them are better than others.  I know there are satisfied owners who get good results from them.  I am very happy for these folks and I am NOT disparaging their machines.  It's just that I wasn't so lucky.  Mine was made with such incompetence and indifference it should be destroyed.

I spent my entire career giving everything in me to my craft.  I do not mind saying that I believe my boss and I were the best gunsmiths in the state.  It was my life!  The quality of my work meant everything to me.  To think that the people who built my little machine just didn't give a damn makes me sick. I cannot abide men like that.

I know these little machines fill a niche.  I know I am a little crazy when it comes to this subject.  I guess I'll never be able to abide sloth and incompetence.  If I live to be a hundred years old, I shall never understand how a man can be so unconcerned with the quality of his work as the men in China seem to be.  Maybe it's not really about them, but profiteering on the part of their employers.  Who knows.  I just hope they will improve and stop off-loading their crappy products on this country.  Hope springs eternal.

Thanks again for your remarks.

Squire 




Old Squier said:


> Dean,
> 
> Whatever you do, don't buy one of these lathes!  Keep your SB and spruce it up.  Thank God I have a Precision Matthews 1340GT for turning metal.  Looking to add a Summit or PM 1660 this year.   I just use the G0602 for turning blocks of briar wood to make tobacco pipes.  It doesn't even do that well.  It's an ongoing project for me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk




Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma


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## Old Squier (Jan 17, 2017)

xman_charl said:


> My feed lever will drag, G0602.
> 
> Was using the cross feed, noticed this.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your problems brother.  I wish I could say I was shocked by all of your troubles, but I'm not.

Best of luck to ya!

Squire

Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma


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## Old Squier (Jan 17, 2017)

Same problems.  It's a hell of a note that we are obliged to turn these machines into functional tools ourselves.  It's a cinch the Chinese aren't going to do it.  Neither is good ol Grizzly.

Squire

Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma


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## Old Squier (Jan 17, 2017)

Old Squier said:


> Same problems.  It's a hell of a note that we are obliged to turn these machines into functional tools ourselves.  It's a cinch the Chinese aren't going to do it.  Neither is good ol Grizzly.
> 
> Squire
> 
> Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma


I should have said, same problems as HBilly1022!  My bad.

Squire 


xman_charl said:


> My feed lever will drag, G0602.
> 
> Was using the cross feed, noticed this.
> 
> ...




Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma


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## Greebles (Jan 17, 2017)

The quality issue with Asian machines is 100% based on costs / profit per machine. There are only two ways to cut their cost per machine, lower-quality materials and labor cost. Generally labor cost is the biggest expense (even in Asia) so they do not hire skilled or trained workers. There workers are pushed to work as fast as they can which means quality is not a consideration and mistakes are pushed through in the hopes no one will notice. Workers that do become proficient and skilled eventually leave to find higher pay. This is exactly how most business are run nowadays, whether it is in Asia or stateside. The only difference is that in many other countries and cultures quality is not valued and thus not pursued.

-Denzil


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## Old Squier (Jan 17, 2017)

Greebles said:


> The quality issue with Asian machines is 100% based on costs / profit per machine. There are only two ways to cut their cost per machine, lower-quality materials and labor cost. Generally labor cost is the biggest expense (even in Asia) so they do not hire skilled or trained workers. There workers are pushed to work as fast as they can which means quality is not a consideration and mistakes are pushed through in the hopes no one will notice. Workers that do become proficient and skilled eventually leave to find higher pay. This is exactly how most business are run nowadays, whether it is in Asia or stateside. The only difference is that in many other countries and cultures quality is not valued and thus not pursued.
> 
> -Denzil


Yeah, you hit the nail on the head.  It's too dammed bad too.  All those employees who never have a chance to experience the feeling that comes with a job done well.

Squire

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## HBilly1022 (Jan 17, 2017)

I think one of the issues is that the manufacturer and dealers of these machines are fully aware of the quality control issues and choose to accept it, for whatever reason and I'm sure it is mostly based on profitability. The other disturbing issue is that the consumer is being forced, or is slowly growing to accept this as the new normal. After purchasing my first lathe, I was told I shouldn't expect to get a quality machine from Asia and certainly not at these prices, however in the warranty section of the owners manual for my lathe, it states: " (distributor)... _makes every effort to ensure that this product meets high quality and durability standards._" So much for truth in advertising. If I was told to expect problems with the lathe  and that may require some effort on my part to resolve, would I have still bought the lathe? Probably, because I really wanted one and I have this strange belief that I can fix just about anything. But I think many people would not buy one if they were told that. Knowing there are possible quality issues, in advance, would allow the buyer to make an informed decision before buying one.

For those that got a good one, I am happy for you. Also wish I was one of the fortunate ones. For those of us that end up with a less than stellar machine our options are; 

1) return it to the repair center at our cost and this could be cost prohibitive. I think companies relay on this to some degree, knowing that the consumer will likely not pay to do this unless he is close to the repair center. Sure limits potential costs for the company. 
2) make the repairs ourselves, if we can determine the cause of whatever problem we are experiencing. That way the distributor is only out the cost of the part. The labor is on us.
3) return it to the dealer and get our money back, if your dealer is agreeable to this option. Then what, look for a quality used machine. Tried that for about a year before making the plunge into Asian and there aren't any around these parts. If something comes up it is either snapped up before I get to make a phone call or it is way overpriced. Even so I would have had no idea what to look for since I have no experience with these machines until now. I guess I should be happy that I bought Asian because I now know a lot of things to look for if I ever did buy a used one.

I wonder how much it would add to the cost of these machines to actually get some real quality control at the factory.


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## entityunknown (Jan 17, 2017)

I think I know why you hate your lathe. Wood turning lathes spin at a much higher RPM so you're probably gonna have horrible finishes on everything I'd imagine. The compound isn't really effective at being a wood turning tool rest either. I believe there are design differences for how machines are oiled and the way travels being different based on expected wood dust vs. metal chips.

It might just be the wrong tool for the job?

I will say I'm kinda wishing I bought a gun smithing lathe instead but I'm quite happy with my mini and I won't need an upgrade for some time


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## Old Squier (Jan 17, 2017)

entityunknown said:


> I think I know why you hate your lathe. Wood turning lathes spin at a much higher RPM so you're probably gonna have horrible finishes on everything I'd imagine. The compound isn't really effective at being a wood turning tool rest either. I believe there are design differences for how machines are oiled and the way travels being different based on expected wood dust vs. metal chips.
> 
> It might just be the wrong tool for the job?
> 
> I will say I'm kinda wishing I bought a gun smithing lathe instead but I'm quite happy with my mini and I won't need an upgrade for some time


Yeah, one would think a wood lathe would be better.  But, they are not. In the artisan pipe world, metal lathes are used probably 5 to 1 over wood lathes. I use carbide inserts for steel, and I get an excellent finish.  Offhand, I would say this is explained by the fact that the wood used is almost always briar - or if you prefer - bruyere.  Briar is very, very hard.  It does not tear on a metal lathe like other woods.  I have experimented with quilted maple and the results are what you expected - terrible.  But briar turns out great!

I guess it's just one of those things - strange, but true!

Thanks for mentioning this Entity.

Cheers 

Squire

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