# Slip Roller



## Ray C

I've got a couple projects coming up that will need a slip roller and will need to make one in the next two weeks.  Here's a quick CAD view of the approximate design.  I might tweak this a little bit more but this is what it's looking like so far. This will be made out of 1045 and everything will be hardened.  The rollers were cut today and are currently 1.410" diameter and will be hardened to somewhere around RC 48-50 then brought down to 1.400" (and I'll use the dreaded ceramic inserts for the final cut).  They're 12" long and the pinch area is 10.5" long.

In the drawings, the green circles are needle roller bearings (I forgot to insert a bearing on the top roller).  There will be a tapped hole and bolt at each end (not shown yet) to compress the yellow roller guides downward.  I ordered some 1x1.25x3/4 needle bearings that have a 40,000lb static rating -way more than enough to make the stainless steel hoops I need to make.  The shaded plate with a semi-circle is a keeper tab to hold the top roller and can be taken off to remove the roller when forming full loops.










I'll show pics as this progresses...


Ray


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## LEEQ

Love to see it in action when you are done. I am also very interested in the finished obtained with the ceramic. I've never thought about using ceramic bits.


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## 12bolts

Ray,
How do you intend to drive it?
And if this is for your own use, a couple of extras to consider.
On my roller, the top pinch roller is located above, and in line with the roller below it. This is adjustable for varying thicknesses.
The 3rd roller is also adjustable, but to a much greater degree for making gentle to tight radius curves.
To keep rods and such located on the rollers, 1 pinch roller has a couple of grooves machined in it, and also the outfeed (3rd) roller has matching grooves as well. This stops the rod from tracking along the rollers when you make hoops.
Mine also has the 3rd roller adjustable in different amounts from 1 end to the other. That lets you roll a "compound" curve in a sheet. They come out cone shaped.

Cheers Phil


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## Ray C

12bolts said:


> Ray,
> How do you intend to drive it?
> And if this is for your own use, a couple of extras to consider.
> On my roller, the top pinch roller is located above, and in line with the roller below it. This is adjustable for varying thicknesses.
> The 3rd roller is also adjustable, but to a much greater degree for making gentle to tight radius curves.
> To keep rods and such located on the rollers, 1 pinch roller has a couple of grooves machined in it, and also the outfeed (3rd) roller has matching grooves as well. This stops the rod from tracking along the rollers when you make hoops.
> Mine also has the 3rd roller adjustable in different amounts from 1 end to the other. That lets you roll a "compound" curve in a sheet. They come out cone shaped.
> 
> Cheers Phil



Now darn it Phil, you got me thinking on another track now -and I need this thing in a couple weeks.  Have you seen the prices on these things?  -Talk about profit margin! 

Anyhow, I've never used/seen a slip roller before so I looked at a few pictures and saw the design you're talking about.  I was planning to put at least one wire-guide groove in there.

In my observations, the ones designed like yours tend to be motorized or have a large radius cranking handle.   The one I'm making needs to be small enough for benchtop use.  I'm planning to clamp it in a vise when in-use.  It makes me wonder how much muscle power is needed to manually crank one of these things.  I have two jobs coming up that need bends.  One is stainless steel (about 1/16" thick material) 4.5" diameter and 10" wide/tall (think custom made oil filter container).  Another has steel strips 1/8" thick, 1/2" wide with a gradual 90 degree bend of about 3" radius.

So... not knowing how hard it is to crank the handle, I came-up the fixed two bottom rollers because I stand a chance of driving both simultaneously with a gear (or gears) -in hopes that two drive rollers helps overcome any difficulties cranking the pieces through.

There's the current strategy and as usual, any info about the realities of using one of these things would be helpful.


Ray


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## Ray C

Here's a little eye candy...

Here are the bearing holders...  See guys, I didn't forget how to use the old lathe despite all the CNC lately.  (Actually, most of my custom work is manually machined).  This needed a little of both.  I setup and bored the offset hole in the 4 jaw and made the corners and bottom radius on the CNC.

The bearings are 1.250" OD.  The bores came out to 1.2495 and 1.2496" as best I can measure them...  They'll be a slight sweat fit.

Here you go...







Ray


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## JimDawson

Looks good but ya got the holes off center.  Ya should have programmed it. :lmao:


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## pineyfolks

Are you going to make one end open up, or are you going to pull the top roll to take your parts off? That's if you're going to be rolling complete circles.


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## Ray C

pineyfolks said:


> Are you going to make one end open up, or are you going to pull the top roll to take your parts off? That's if you're going to be rolling complete circles.



I'll need to take the tab off one of the bearing holders and slide the top roll out.  I didn't feel like dealing with all the complication of a more sophisticated design (although I was thinking about it)...


Ray

- - - Updated - - -



pineyfolks said:


> Are you going to make one end open up, or are you going to pull the top roll to take your parts off? That's if you're going to be rolling complete circles.



Yeah, they're a tiny bit off to one side but all is well and I got lucky for two reasons...  Both are off the same amount.  Both are a little over-sized and when I mill them to correct size, I'll take a little more off on one side...  (wheew... dodged a bullet on that one).  Fortunately, it doesn't matter anyhow because the height of top shaft is controlled with two independent adjustment bolts...  I think Father's Day luck was on my side today...


Ray


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## tertiaryjim

A nice project you got there.
Had some experience running a 3' wide, motor driven one some years back.
It was adjustable in ways I hadn't known existed and all three rollers were geared to each other for maximum drive power.
I saw a home made unit just 6" wide that had only two rollers driven. It slipped more than it rolled.
The list of things I want to build just got longer.


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## 12bolts

I think you should go back and get them both the same........


Ray C said:


> The bores came out to 1.2495 and 1.2496" as best I can measure them...




The crank handle on mine is 10" long  
	

		
			
		

		
	






You can see how much adjustment I have on my outfeed roller.  
	

		
			
		

		
	




And because the rollers are just in sloppy bushes you can crank 1 end more than the other to give you the "compound" curve  
	

		
			
		

		
	




I wouldnt even raise a sweat on your job, pretty sure I could wind a 3" radius on mine, but that would be about as tight as it would go I reckon.
Its not that strenuous to do. If you try to push it too hard it just gets too difficult to crank the handle. Just go back and forth adding a bit more pressure each time to tighten the curve.

Cheers Phil


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## 12bolts

*how tight?*

Ray, have you done the math to see if your setup with the top roller between the bottom 2 will give you enough "displacement" to achieve a 3" radius? :thinking:

Cheers Phil


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## JimDawson

Ray C said:


> Yeah, they're a tiny bit off to one side but all is well and I got lucky for two reasons...  Both are off the same amount.  Both are a little over-sized and when I mill them to correct size, I'll take a little more off on one side...  (wheew... dodged a bullet on that one).  Fortunately, it doesn't matter anyhow because the height of top shaft is controlled with two independent adjustment bolts...  I think Father's Day luck was on my side today...
> 
> 
> Ray



I didn't even notice the lateral offset until you mentioned it, I was talking about top to bottom :lmao:


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## pineyfolks

Instead of a crank you might want to consider a large wheel. We modified the rolls at work with them. They are easier on the back. We had 48" wheels on an old roll because OSHA wouldn't let us upgrade it to power.


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## Ray C

Here's a handful of videos showing the side plate being made on the CNC machine.  All went well but in my haste/carelessness, I grabbed a worn-out finish endmill that was about 4 thou undersized and the final holes came-out correspondingly small -but otherwise very well dimensioned.  I'll ream it out in a jiffy and we'll be right back on track.


Here are some videos to watch... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwJasJxAeqQ&sns=em
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTlbvd_a_iY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPUIo5eooTE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksRuFqilPME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao5MbKiHRj0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWApNmr95fE&sns=em
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_SJCSplUd0


Ray


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## Marco Bernardini

Ray, even your camera is a bit worn-out… the videos are undersized!
:roflmao:
Anyway thanks for sharing, they are nice!


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## zmotorsports

Cool project Ray and nice videos.  Thanks for sharing them.

Mike.


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## Ray C

Marco Bernardini said:


> Ray, even your camera is a bit worn-out… the videos are undersized!
> :roflmao:
> Anyway thanks for sharing, they are nice!



Maybe I need a bigger lens installed on the iPhone...  I do have a video camera that makes full-size images but it creates huge files that take a very long time to upload.  The iPhone chops them down to manageable size and uploads them very quickly...  I dread making videos really -so time consuming...

Ray


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## Marco Bernardini

Ray C said:


> Maybe I need a bigger lens installed on the iPhone...  I do have a video camera that makes full-size images but it creates huge files that take a very long time to upload.  The iPhone chops them down to manageable size and uploads them very quickly...  I dread making videos really -so time consuming...
> 
> Ray



I guess to keep the iPhone in "landscape mode" would solve the vertical issue


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## The Landshark

12bolts said:


> I think you should go back and get them both the same........
> 
> 
> 
> The crank handle on mine is 10" long
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> View attachment 78862
> View attachment 78863
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> You can see how much adjustment I have on my outfeed roller.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 78864
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> 
> And because the rollers are just in sloppy bushes you can crank 1 end more than the other to give you the "compound" curve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 78865
> 
> 
> I wouldnt even raise a sweat on your job, pretty sure I could wind a 3" radius on mine, but that would be about as tight as it would go I reckon.
> Its not that strenuous to do. If you try to push it too hard it just gets too difficult to crank the handle. Just go back and forth adding a bit more pressure each time to tighten the curve.
> 
> Cheers Phil



I have that exact same roller myself, good to see another still in use.


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## Ray C

Marco Bernardini said:


> I guess to keep the iPhone in "landscape mode" would solve the vertical issue



Thanks...  LOL, some of my first publications and early development products were cell phones and related ground infrastructure (I worked on the original "bag phones" and later did much of the Vo-Coding for the first Motorola Star-Tac cell phone -the very first "flip-phone").  I hated portable phones back then -and still do.  They offered to give us the experimental phones free, usable on an experimental network -and I wanted nothing to do with them.  A modern day Luddite for sure...


Ray


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## Marco Bernardini

Ray C said:


> Thanks...  LOL, some of my first publications and early development products were cell phones and related ground infrastructure (I worked on the original "bag phones" and later did much of the Vo-Coding for the first Motorola Star-Tac cell phone -the very first "flip-phone").  I hated portable phones back then -and still do.  They offered to give us the experimental phones free, usable on an experimental network -and I wanted nothing to do with them.  A modern day Luddite for sure...
> 
> 
> Ray



I use the smartphone as a camera, protractor, guitar tuner, FM radio, stellar map, ball bearing catalog, H-M forum reader when in bathroom… then I generally use this one to call and receive:


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## Ray C

A beautiful, cool day today -perfect for some shop work and heat treating...

Both ends of all rods were drilled 1.1" deep and tapped with a 5/16-18 thread.  Slots were cut across the centers for a drive mechanism -which I haven't decided-upon yet.  We'll start with a simple handle on one roller and if that's not enough traction, I'll add some gears to drive the bottom two.








Next up is some heat treating.  I've been using argon flooding to displace oxygen in addition to a few small pieces of cardboard to burn off.  The argon is proving to be very effective because, the cardboard didn't seem to combust during the 1570F heat treat; rather, as soon as the door is opened when it's time to remove the pieces, oxygen hits the cardboard and it immediately bursts into flames.  BTW, that's stainless steel safety wire pre-strung on the shafts for handling purposes.  If you do something like this, do not use normal bailing wire (unless you want to pick a 1570 F hot object off the floor).  Wire hangers are used because handling the shafts with tongs will damage the fragile hot surface.





I've been experimenting with some quenching solutions and this quench went very well.  Absolutely no boiling took place and hardly any fine bubbles at all...  -just the sound of screaming metal.  -It makes a screeching, screaming sound a few moments after it's dunked in.  That sound, by the way, is from the rapidly contracting outer skin crushing down on the center which is so hot, it's technically a solution.  It's this rapid compression that locks the molecular structure in place giving it hardness.  Somewhere along the line, I read about the pressures taking place at that time -and the numbers (which I don't recall) were astronomical.

Very little decarburization which means the argon flood is doing it's job.




The pieces were tempered for an hour at 600F to bring them to about Rockwell C 50.

As soon as they cool down, I'll measure them, roll them on the granite and see how much distortion took place. The bearing shoulders are oversized now and  I'll use ceramic inserts to bring them to size.


Ray


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## Marco Bernardini

Ray C said:


> I've been experimenting with some quenching solutions and this quench went very well.  Absolutely no boiling took place and hardly any fine bubbles at all...  -just the sound of screaming metal.  -It makes a screeching, screaming sound a few moments after it's dunked in.



Now that would be an interesting video… overall for the audio!


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## LEEQ

I would love to see the ceramic turning.) Very interesting.


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## Ray C

Well, the shafts are done with no immolation of self or property...  I wanted to take pictures or videos but seriously, cutting with ceramic is nothing to play games with and it's just too distracting.  I was quite busy making sure nothing was going up in flames.  I cover the ways with stainless foil, wear a welding jacket and of course full face protection.  I clip a piece of thin plywood over the handwheel and carriage lever -and still, I got one nice little burn (but not too bad).  The chips coming off are white-hot and make melted spots in the stainless foil.  

It's worth it though, have a look.  

BTW, whenever I heat treat a part that cannot itself be tested, I toss in a reference/control piece of the same material.  The piece used today was the same diameter as the bearing shoulder on the shaft and about 1" long.  It tested-out at RC 53 and I'm guessing the larger pieces (probably) came out between 49-51.

Note that the KoolMist is not pointed at the part.  You should not use coolant with ceramic bits.  The tips turn orange hot and a drop of water would probably blow them up.








... They ring like a bell for 30 seconds.  My son's girlfriend is kinda "artsy/musical" and I swear, she was driving me nuts tapping on them for 30 minutes...  

Ray


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## daveyscrap

Wow those shafts look as though they were ground !! Very nice looking ray.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## xalky

Ray, How much material did you leave on the ODs prior to hardening for further turning after they were hardened? 

I was watching the guys this week operate the OD grinding machines at the shop I'm subbing for and was asking a few questions. It was very informative. I had really had no prior exposure to OD grinding machines prior to meeting up with these guys. I've been around a few centerless grinding machines but never the centered type. In most respects they're like a super accurate lathe with a a huge toolpost grinder attached and lots of flood coolant.

Marcel


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## Ray C

xalky said:


> Ray, How much material did you leave on the ODs prior to hardening for further turning after they were hardened?
> 
> I was watching the guys this week operate the OD grinding machines at the shop I'm subbing for and was asking a few questions. It was very informative. I had really had no prior exposure to OD grinding machines prior to meeting up with these guys. I've been around a few centerless grinding machines but never the centered type. In most respects they're like a super accurate lathe with a a huge toolpost grinder attached and lots of flood coolant.
> 
> Marcel



25 extra and I almost cut it too thin.  I didn't normalize this metal before working on it and one piece bowed a good bit and to get it straight I had to under-shoot my target diameter by 5 thou.  The other two didn't bow as much and cleaned-up easily.  I'll used the skinny one on the top since the bottom two might end-up as drive rollers and I want them spinning at the same SFM.  


Ray


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## JimDawson

Looking good, Ray :thumbsup2:

Happy the hear you are still with us after that.


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## Ray C

daveyscrap said:


> Wow those shafts look as though they were ground !! Very nice looking ray.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Thanks...  I have a nice OD toolpost grinder but, these came out OK and the application doesn't need that level of precision... Somewhere here, I showed some shafts that were turned with the grinder.   That's really good when a shaft has to be dead-on from end to end.

FWIW,  I've only used the ceramic a handful of times and the finish usually looks pretty snappy -but no different really than medium hardness metal cut with carbide.  LOL:  In all honesty, it doesn't look much different than any one of the several hundred boat shafts I've turned except it glimmers with that nice rainbow color more than stainless does.



Ray


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## 12bolts

Ray C said:


> ...Very little decarburization which means the argon flood is doing it's job....



How much argon do you use in an oven that size Ray?
Do you purge it hard to flush it out and then just keep a dribble going in for the duration? Or.....

Cheers Phil


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## Ray C

12bolts said:


> How much argon do you use in an oven that size Ray?
> Do you purge it hard to flush it out and then just keep a dribble going in for the duration? Or.....
> 
> Cheers Phil



Hi Phil...

Just a one-time shot.  I rig a couple plastic tubes to feed from the bottom and vent at the top (argon is a very dense gas).  The insulation batting allows me sneak those tubes in/out without too much fuss.  I should install some tubes and valves...  The inside is something like 1.5 cuft so, I just set the welding tank up a few notches and fill it up in a few minutes.


Ray


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## markknx

Nice work  Ray I will be following this one.


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## markknx

Ray I just got thetime to view you vidios. Now I want one of those. The wife may just have to wait a little longer for that second honeymoon. Ha Ha


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## Ray C

markknx said:


> Ray I just got thetime to view you vidios. Now I want one of those. The wife may just have to wait a little longer for that second honeymoon. Ha Ha



Well stand-by until later this evening and I'll make some more vids.  -And just to please Marco, I'll shoot them in horizontal/landscape mode.


Ray


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## Ray C

Better late than never, they say...  I got a late start on this last night.

I'm re-making the bearing holders because one of the originals sustained a slight crack during the heat treating.  The crack didn't go all the way through but nonetheless, I no longer trusted either part.  I packed the holes but, it wasn't enough.  There was a high chance of this happening -and it did.  

The first parts were bored on a manual lathe and these were bored with the mill as shown.  There are trade-offs.  The bore from the lathe-produced parts were perfect from the get-go.  With the CNC mill, the bore varied between 1.2485 to 1.2495.  It was supposed to be 1.250.  The plan from the onset was to pass a reamer through to make them perfect.  On the flip side, setting-up the part on the CNC is very easy -just establish the origin and press go.  It's an even trade-off in my opinion.

In these videos, the paths were setup for a slow feed rate to provide enough time to video the motions and let you see in slower-motion the path movements.  Whenever I watch videos of the real-pros doing this, I pay close attention to the fine points of the path motions.  These motions were not highly optimized and I could have gotten rid of the Z elevation clearance motion between passes but, since this a "one-off" situation, its not worth the effort.  The parts could have been cut at twice the feed rate if I so wished -and still not come anywhere close to stressing the machine.

Here are some vids -and heads-up, the audio on the 3rd vid is shot in the foot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lwwi1W2pfw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZbBFFsEPc8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlKbEQjH8QQ


Here's a close-up of the finished parts with absolutely no post touch-up or deburring.  Fresh out of the mill.  I wasn't careful setting the Z when doing the finish pass on the large outer radius to thin-out the shell.  You can see some artifacts of my carelessness.  No harm done but, I must say, this typical of what happens when I'm not focusing on my work and fiddling-around with video cameras...





Ray


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## Tony Wells

Ray, just for the sake of discussion, long parts are preferably done vertical. I know you didn't build your furnace with that in mind, and that's fine. There aren't all that many heat treaters who have long part capability. I used to send parts 6-8 feet long regularly to a couple I know of. The were 41xx series alloy, and tubular to boot. Laying them down just wasn't working. We built a 100 ton rolling frame straightening press early on in this work to make do. Since we brought them in ejector drilled, we couldn't simply leave them over size and turn them straight. There was a drift requirement. When they were bowed, we had to roll them on vee blocks (ball bearing style, these were sometimes heavy), use an ultrasonic  thickness mic and bent them so that the holes were straight before we turned them. It was a little mind bending at first, having to make the thick walled side run out on the plus side the correct amount to make the hole straight. Sometimes this took a couple of iterations, because they would move when we turned them.


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## zmotorsports

Tony Wells said:


> Ray, just for the sake of discussion, long parts are preferably done vertical. I know you didn't build your furnace with that in mind, and that's fine. There aren't all that many heat treaters who have long part capability. I used to send parts 6-8 feet long regularly to a couple I know of. The were 41xx series alloy, and tubular to boot. Laying them down just wasn't working. We built a 100 ton rolling frame straightening press early on in this work to make do. Since we brought them in ejector drilled, we couldn't simply leave them over size and turn them straight. There was a drift requirement. When they were bowed, we had to roll them on vee blocks (ball bearing style, these were sometimes heavy), use an ultrasonic  thickness mic and bent them so that the holes were straight before we turned them. It was a little mind bending at first, having to make the thick walled side run out on the plus side the correct amount to make the hole straight. Sometimes this took a couple of iterations, because they would move when we turned them.



I don't know the answer to this which is why I am asking so go easy on me as I have very little to no experience with heat treating.

That said, wouldn't lying them horizontally give you a more uniform heating throughout the part?  I would think standing them vertically would allow the parts to be hotter at the top of the part due to the heat rising and therefore not be as even temperature throughout the part.  I would think the same physics of heat apply inside an oven as they do outside.  Please explain.

Again, I am only asking because I don't know, not criticizing. 

Mike.


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## Tony Wells

Fair question, Mike. Yes there can be a temperature gradient inside a furnace. It isn't as much as one may think though. As well insulated as these furnaces are built, and the location of the heat source is chosen, it's not a big factor. At the acceptable temperatures and soak times, there is minimal convection. Some processes use an open bath of molten salt to minimize any temperature differential. Good size and shape retention is obtainable with that method.

Most of the distortion will actually occur during the quench phase of the process, where almost no matter how you approach it, one end of the part cools faster than the other. Larger quench baths help, but do not eliminate that. Most commercial quench baths have temperature control anyway, so as long as it stays within bounds, things a pretty consistent.


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## zmotorsports

Tony, thank you very much for explaining that.

Mike.


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## Ray C

Great discussion...

Indeed, I never planned to have a vertical oven and instead, the internal rack was made very strong, "perfectly" level and out of 308 SS which has really good resilience to repeated heat cycles.  I acknowledge that most big industrial ovens are vertical.

A big contributing factor in one of the parts being bowed, is likely due to using hot-rolled stock without normalizing or stress relieving prior to machining.  I've also learned that, in addition to using stress-relieved stock, keeping the parts cool/cold during the machining process will ultimately yield nearly distortion-free parts once heat treated.  In this case, no coolant could be used but, with KoolMist and normal carbide cutting -even heavy cutting, parts never gets above room temperature and in most cases, are actually cold due to the evaporation process.  In times past, I've machined parts, heat treated them and had miniscule amounts of distortion.

Another thought I had is the part bowed when I lifted it off the rack using the stainless safety wire.  It's common for parts to stick a little and one particular shaft was no exception.  I had to give the wire a good tug to break it's adhesion.  I might actually have caused the problem at that time but, since they're identical, I have no idea which one put up a fuss.  The other two lifted off easily.  I could have avoided the whole problem by lifting the entire rack and dunking it.  Well...  This is just too hard to do safely given the tight quarters and furthermore, my storage and dunk tanks are 10 gallons and too shallow to dunk the whole rack in.

These parts were laid in horizontally and were submerged and rested atop a heavy piece of perforated sheet wire in a heartbeat.  Once again, the quenching solution worked great.  No boiling and just a tiny amount of fine "soda bubbles" being generated.  -Was really happy about that...

My biggest learning experience here...  I should have hardened the shafts first -and then cut them down to size using ceramic inserts.  -That's likely the whole reason for using ceramic inserts in the first place.  I was still thinking "old-school" process while having at hand, new technology tools...  


EDIT:  BTW, I acknowledge that dunking in the quench vertically is probably a better way to go.  The instant a part hits that cold solution, it starts to contract.  Dunking vertically would mitigate a horizontal bowing effect for sure.  In the case of these parts, my only way to address that was to literally drop the parts in the tank -which I did but for all I know, it wasn't the cure.



Ray


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## zmotorsports

Great information Tony and Ray.  Thank you guys for explaining.

Mike.


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## Marco Bernardini

Ray C said:


> No harm done but, I must say, this typical of what happens when I'm not focusing on my work and fiddling-around with video cameras...



Ray, thanks for the nice orientation of the videos :biggrin:
You must suggest Matt to add an integrated camera to the machines, so you (and many others) don't have to mind to videos


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## Ray C

Marco Bernardini said:


> Ray, thanks for the nice orientation of the videos :biggrin:
> You must suggest Matt to add an integrated camera to the machines, so you (and many others) don't have to mind to videos



LOL:   All the high-end CNC machines have video inspection with recording capability.  It's available as an option on most intermediate production machines.


The real issue with holding a video camera is that these are "live-runs" of "one-off" pieces and in such cases, the other hand needs to be on/near the pendant ready to hit the panic button.   In most of those videos, the pendant was held between my knees so I could slap the panic button with minimal delay.  Also, in order for my voice to be heard, I have to hold the iphone with my fingers cupped in a way to shield the noise and guide my vocal sound waves toward the speaker.  -Kind of a juggling act that I got tired of and that's why you can't hear me on the last video.   Just so you know, anything can happen at any time with CNC -especially so with Mach 3 involved.  It's a reasonable controller and the price is right but (as with most software) has only earned my partial respect for being reliable and trustworthy. 

A while ago, I had a batch of 150 parts; each taking 1 hour to complete.  In that case, a routine was established, making it amenable to take videos.  Unfortunately, it was a proprietary part and cannot be displayed publicly...  In any event, I found it best to restart Mach 3 after every 5 runs.  No serious issue have arisen but, it seems that after 5 hours of regular use, loading/unloading code, jogging the table, setting offsets... -it gets quirky.

I think video work is best done with a better camera and camera operator -but I'm apprehensive in tackling that right now.  I love my machine work -and I can't say that about videography.

Ray


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## JimDawson

Marco Bernardini said:


> You must suggest Matt to add an integrated camera to the machines, so you (and many others) don't have to mind to videos



Marco, You have given me an idea.  I may build a bracket for my HF inspection camera probe, it has video out capability and low enough resolution that the file sizes should not be too large.  I also have some small industrial cameras, and I guess a web cam would work also.  Maybe mounted on a mag base:think1:




Ray C said:


> In any event, I found it best to restart Mach 3 after every 5 runs. No serious issue have arisen but, it seems that after 5 hours of regular use, loading/unloading code, jogging the table, setting offsets... -it gets quirky.
> 
> 
> Ray




Your experience with Mach3 is much better than mine, but it could have been the computer I was using.  Windows is a pretty sucky system for real time processing anyway, so I'm surprised Mach3 works at all.


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## Marco Bernardini

Ray C said:


> LOL:   All the high-end CNC machines have video inspection with recording capability.  It's available as an option on most intermediate production machines.



I think hobbyists would like that, too, and I'm so sure of this that I don't even launch a poll :biggrin:
(But hobbyists also would like to build their own camera support :lmao



Ray C said:


> I think video work is best done with a better camera and camera operator -but I'm apprehensive in tackling that right now.  I love my machine work -and I can't say that about videography.
> 
> Ray



Surely every distraction while working (cell phone, nice girls, funny posts on H-M, etc.) is dangerous.
A camera operator, however, is even more dangerous, because you have to look for your safety (and you know what to do) and _his_ safety (and generally operators don't have shop experience).
Get a good and tall Manfrotto tripod, make a sturdy stand for your iPhone and have fun!




JimDawson said:


> Marco, You have given me an idea.  I may build a bracket for my HF inspection camera probe, it has video out capability and low enough resolution that the file sizes should not be too large.  I also have some small industrial cameras, and I guess a web cam would work also.  Maybe mounted on a mag base:think1:



A web cam is almost "disposable", since the prince is not too high: look for some "new old stock" Logitech, like the C210, which was pretty good, and don't be ashamed to buy the pink version if the price is lower :whistle: 
I don't know how much vibration is generated by a machine (hypothetically none), but long brackets could be sensible, if they are not rigid enough.


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## Ray C

Hey, it works.  We can make circles now!

I just pressed on the roller by hand and used a big screwdriver to temporarily turn the roller.  The piece of aluminum strip was 0.1" thick and the wire was a piece of SS safety wire.  Oh, and I've decided what to do if one hand crank is not enough...  I'll put another crank on a different roller on the other side.

Now I just need to make a base and drill/tap the holes for the pressure screws.






Ray


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## Marco Bernardini

Nice job, Ray!
Anyway I think a part of the merit goes to the lubricant in the orange cup, too… :biggrin:


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## xalky

Marco Bernardini said:


> Nice job, Ray!
> Anyway I think a part of the merit goes to the lubricant in the orange cup, too… :biggrin:


I love that lubricant, I use that same stuff by the pot full daily. I really wouldn't be much good without it! 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## Ray C

Marco Bernardini said:


> Nice job, Ray!
> Anyway I think a part of the merit goes to the lubricant in the orange cup, too… :biggrin:



Italian Roast, Marco.  (Some French Roast too -hope you're OK with that).


Ray


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## markknx

Ray as always nice work and a nice simple design I like that and may copy it. A small slip roll would be a nice addition to any shop       Dr. has me barred from the lube and my cold medicine (whusky) since my heart went into A Fib about a month back. I'm back in time now so I hope my next visit I can at least get the lube back.      Mark


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## Ray C

markknx said:


> Ray as always nice work and a nice simple design I like that and may copy it. A small slip roll would be a nice addition to any shop       Dr. has me barred from the lube and my cold medicine (whusky) since my heart went into A Fib about a month back. I'm back in time now so I hope my next visit I can at least get the lube back.      Mark



Oh man, that's harsh punishment...  I'm crazy about my coffee and am real happy summer is here because I can finally enjoy a hot cup without it cooling off so fast.

I'll post the dimensions, 2Ds and bearing parts once I finish it all up.  Remind me if I forget...



Ray


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## zmotorsports

Ray C said:


> Oh man, that's harsh punishment...  I'm crazy about my coffee and am real happy summer is here because I can finally enjoy a hot cup without it cooling off so fast.
> 
> I'll post the dimensions, 2Ds and bearing parts once I finish it all up.  Remind me if I forget...
> 
> 
> 
> Ray



Nice job Ray.

I agree about the coffee.  I don't think there is much better scenario than getting a cup of coffee early on a Saturday morning and opening up the shop door to let the sun shine in as it is coming over the mountains.  I love standing there listening to the world come to life sipping my morning coffee.

I can't wait until I can get out of the corporate world so I can experience that every morning.

Mike.


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## Ray C

OK, all done.  It works...  Except for the bearings, it's all made from drops.  Gotta love it.  

I ran a piece of 0.1" aluminum sheet through it.  It needed a little push here and there so, maybe I'll make a second hand crank -or maybe not.  We'll see.







I'll post the 2Ds in a day or two...


Ray


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## JimDawson

Great work Ray, looks good  :thumbsup:


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## David

Nice job Ray!  Very informative post.  Thanks for sharing:thumbzup::thumbzup:

David


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## markknx

Nice work Ray, What did you mean, "it works...except for the bearings"?


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## Ray C

markknx said:


> Nice work Ray, What did you mean, "it works...except for the bearings"?



Bearings work fine.  The concept there was that it was all made from shop drops except for the bearings.  Those I purchased for this project and they cost about $7 each.  


Ray


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## markknx

OK I get it now. That makes it all the better. Again thanks for sharing.  Mark


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## Marco Bernardini

Nice job, Ray!
Now you lack just the mandatory warning signs:


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## Ray C

Marco Bernardini said:


> Nice job, Ray!
> Now you lack just the mandatory warning signs:
> 
> View attachment 79369




I have the same trouble with the vise... Keep getting my fingers pinched.   


Ray


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## zmotorsports

Nice job Ray.  Those are the best kind of projects, the ones that don't cost much, and yours turned out fantastic.

Thanks for sharing with us.  

Mike.


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## tertiaryjim

Thanks for sharing. Very nice looking roller.
It's impressive that you could role such a thick piece of material.
I was concerned that it wouldn't pull such a heavy piece through without all three rollers driving.


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## Marco Bernardini

Ray C said:


> I have the same trouble with the vise... Keep getting my fingers pinched.
> 
> 
> Ray



Wifey's dad spent 35 years cursing his vise because the handle procured him blood blisters.
But he didn't use the Internet to discover good tricks like this one I applied after the first blood blister…


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## British Steel

Ray C said:


> Well, the shafts are done with no immolation of self or property...  I wanted to take pictures or videos but seriously, cutting with ceramic is nothing to play games with and it's just too distracting.  I was quite busy making sure nothing was going up in flames.  I cover the ways with stainless foil, wear a welding jacket and of course full face protection.  I clip a piece of thin plywood over the handwheel and carriage lever -and still, I got one nice little burn (but not too bad).  The chips coming off are white-hot and make melted spots in the stainless foil.
> 
> It's worth it though, have a look.
> 
> BTW, whenever I heat treat a part that cannot itself be tested, I toss in a reference/control piece of the same material.  The piece used today was the same diameter as the bearing shoulder on the shaft and about 1" long.  It tested-out at RC 53 and I'm guessing the larger pieces (probably) came out between 49-51.
> 
> Note that the KoolMist is not pointed at the part.  You should not use coolant with ceramic bits.  The tips turn orange hot and a drop of water would probably blow them up.
> 
> ... They ring like a bell for 30 seconds.  My son's girlfriend is kinda "artsy/musical" and I swear, she was driving me nuts tapping on them for 30 minutes...
> 
> Ray



Ray, lots of interesting info in this thread, can you expand a little on the ceramic inserts? I assume they need a very rigid lathe and some horsepower, what sort of sfm, feed and.doc do they take, and are they positive/neutral/negative rake etc?

Thanks, Dave H.


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## Ray C

tertiaryjim said:


> Thanks for sharing. Very nice looking roller.
> It's impressive that you could role such a thick piece of material.
> I was concerned that it wouldn't pull such a heavy piece through without all three rollers driving.



So far, I've found it best to put the piece all the way in then pinch it to near the desired curvature then, start cranking back and forward.  It does lose traction and requires a gloved hand to feed/tug on the piece but generally speaking, it works.  A couple iterations of this and it makes a good circle.

There are indeed better designs and I could draw it up if you want but, I needed this this thing fast and I used it all day yesterday.  It worked, the pieces are made and already fedex'd to the customer.  If at some point in the future, I need a more universal design, the rollers, bearings, hand-crank and base are all still re-usable.  ... just need to re-design the two side plates.   I just didn't have time for that in this case.



Ray


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## Ray C

British Steel said:


> Ray, lots of interesting info in this thread, can you expand a little on the ceramic inserts? I assume they need a very rigid lathe and some horsepower, what sort of sfm, feed and.doc do they take, and are they positive/neutral/negative rake etc?
> 
> Thanks, Dave H.




Any machine that can competently turn with carbide can be used.   The orange/white hot chips can be a hazard and caution (precaution) is necessary.  Protect yourself and the machine.  Clean-up any standing pools of oil, sweep the area for anything combustible.  Recommend full face protection (not just goggles).

Normal chips are hot, they land on us and we don't flinch.  These chips will cause instant nasty burns -the kind that are likely to distract even a seasoned operator and possibly lead to a machine crash.  (no, it didn't happen to me but, I can see how easily it could happen).


Everything I know/learned about ceramic turning is found in these two links.  I also have some inserts from Tungaloy and they work well too.

http://www.greenleafglobalsupport.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category_10001_10001_-1_10075_10062


http://www.greenleafglobalsupport.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/TechnicalData_10001_10001_-1


Ray


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## Ray C

... Pretty sure this was mentioned before but it's worth repeating.  Do no use ceramic on unhardened material below Rockwell 45C or, you'll ruin a $15 insert in a matter of moments.  Also, do not use coolant.


Ray


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## LEEQ

I hope all of you experienced machinists out there like Ray who take the time to share with us others have some idea what that means to us. I'm not quite sure how to express it other than thank you. I would be reinventing the wheel for years to come were it not for your sharing. Nice slip roller by the way!)


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## Ray C

LEEQ said:


> I hope all of you experienced machinists out there like Ray who take the time to share with us others have some idea what that means to us. I'm not quite sure how to express it other than thank you. I would be reinventing the wheel for years to come were it not for your sharing. Nice slip roller by the way!)




LEEQ...  Thanks for the nice works.  It's appreciated.

Let me set the record straight and retract myself from the ranks of experienced machinist.  I think it requires a different path and level of ability to be called that.  I only classify myself as someone who works with metal using a variety of tools -and I just figure things out as I go...


Ray


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## markknx

Ray you are to modest!

LEEQ, thanks for stating so well what many of us have thought and tried to say. I have said this before but will say it again this is the best forum with the best group of people. Thanks again to all that have help others here and just gave incentive to others on the group. that includes the novice that posts their question and work so other can help, or learn or just see a new way to work.

sorry I got all soft for a moment, 
Mark


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## JimDawson

Ray C said:


> Let me set the record straight and retract myself from the ranks of experienced machinist.  I think it requires a different path and level of ability to be called that.  I only classify myself as someone who works with metal using a variety of tools -and I just figure things out as I go...  Ray



Ray, you just had to go and say it.  Now I realize that I am not a machinist either.  I make things and sometimes that requires the use of machine tools.  You clearly  articulated what I have never been able to put into words.


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