# Will a chain fall work well horizontally



## woodchucker

Just dug out a root ball on a dead tree, undercut as much as possible, still stubborn. Figured I could use a chain fall (don't have one, would like one) chained to another tree's base, and pull it over. Its been dead for years, I just cut as much of the root as possible as it was mostly all rotted away.   Figured I'd put the chain fall at the top of the dead stump 5-6 ' up, and pull it down.


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## cathead

I did that two years ago and used a come along pulling against a big red pine.  I dug around some of the roots
and washed the roots off with a garden hose, then sawing the roots with a chain saw.  The root ball weighed
about 1000 pounds.


Edit:  Also, if you need more pulling power, one can use the pulley to increase the pull x2.


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## T Bredehoft

Sure it will, go for it.


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## Silverbullet

You could do it with a couple rope sheeves and rope , attach a pulley to the stump and another to your tree. Then tie the rope to the stump feed thru the one on the tree , back to the stump thru the pulley and hook it to your truck or trailer hitch then use you auto to slowly tension rope . I bet it moves easily.


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## Rustrp

A good chain fall or chain hoist is very spendy and the cable come-a-longs work well for what you are doing. 

Just remember to pull sideways.  I agreed to remove some trees for a friend years ago. I have a refurbished Allis-Chalmers 1-Ton chain fall and didn't have anything to really anchor to so I put together a tripod built with 3" channel. I had cut every root I could see and the stump wouldn't budge. It's amazing what strength a 3/4" +/- root has.


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## Rustrp

Silverbullet said:


> You could do it with a couple rope sheeves and rope , attach a pulley to the stump and another to your tree. Then tie the rope to the stump feed thru the one on the tree , back to the stump thru the pulley and hook it to your truck or trailer hitch then use you auto to slowly tension rope . I bet it moves easily.


I don't think the car would be needed.


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## Silverbullet

Rustrp said:


> I don't think the car would be needed.


Just think of our ages and backs.


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## Ulma Doctor

a come along is a lot friendlier to use horizontally than a chain fall, but a chain fall does work horizontally
i pulled a 1200 lb lathe on skids, 20 ft to load onto a trailer with a 1T chain fall and tackle- 
it was a long day.... the chain falls' chain likes to bind when in is not in the upright position, but i managed to get it done. 
So can you!


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## Dabbler

-It depends on what you have at hand.  If you have a chain and a 4X4, or pulleys and rope, or a chain fall you can borrow.  All can be effective.


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## woodchucker

cathead said:


> I did that two years ago and used a come along pulling against a big red pine.  I dug around some of the roots
> and washed the roots off with a garden hose, then sawing the roots with a chain saw.  The root ball weighed
> about 1000 pounds.
> 
> 
> Edit:  Also, if you need more pulling power, one can use the pulley to increase the pull x2.



Yep, i had a come a long, loaned it out.. never got it back don't really need another. But I do have a need for a fall occasionally.. so not having one, was hoping to use it, at least I can justify it with the wife  Not that I have to, but she keeps seeing tools coming in, and nothing for it.


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## woodchucker

Ulma Doctor said:


> a come along is a lot friendlier to use horizontally than a chain fall, but a chain fall does work horizontally
> i pulled a 1200 lb lathe on skids, 20 ft to load onto a trailer with a 1T chain fall and tackle-
> it was a long day.... the chain falls' chain likes to bind when in is not in the upright position, but i managed to get it done.
> So can you!


maybe i can rig up a wheel spring loaded to hold the chain from sagging and preventing the links from getting all crooked.


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## pdentrem

I used a chain falls to pull a diesel fuel tank onto a trailer and it was not full but not empty either. Worked like a charm.
Pierre


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## RandyWilson

The trick is to have a second person "tailing" the chain, keeping it straight and feeding smoothly back to the hoist. Artificial lateral gravity, if you will.


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## Rustrp

Silverbullet said:


> Just think of our ages and backs.



True, but whenever I think about my father-in-law lifting the bed of the old Lodge & Shipley to get it into my truck when I moved it up to Sacramento, and how he did it, I never question what was accomplished before my time. This block and tackle looked like a toy. The pulleys are about 2" and the cord is parachute cord. You must have limited the number of pulleys to what you though you could carry.


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## Rustrp

RandyWilson said:


> The trick is to have a second person "tailing" the chain,


This seems to be a problem for me on a regular basis.


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## woodchucker

Rustrp said:


> True, but whenever I think about my father-in-law lifting the bed of the old Lodge & Shipley to get it into my truck when I moved it up to Sacramento, and how he did it, I never question what was accomplished before my time. This block and tackle looked like a toy. The pulleys are about 2" and the cord is parachute cord. You must have limited the number of pulleys to what you though you could carry.




that looks like 3 sheaves up top and 2 at the bottom, looks like it had some advantage.  Would not mind using that, but I don't think the rope will hold for that load.  I think I am looking at 4 thousand pounds at least.  I don't know how much your lodge and shipley was, assuming it was more, but would what looks like 3/8 to 1/2 rope at most handle that much force.  I remember the last tough tree I tried to take out at a friends house, he had a neighbor with a flat bed tow truck , and that thing groaned when trying to pull out the stump. He tried the winch, then he used the hydraulics on the bed, at first it pulled the truck until he blocked the tires.  I think I have an advantage in that my roots have rotted, and I have all the mains cut that spread out, I just don't have the mains that are going straight down.

And of course, it doesn't give me an excuse to get a fall. I have quite a few up on craigslist near me. All nice units. Yale, and coffing


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## Rustrp

woochucker said:


> I don't know how much your lodge and shipley was, assuming it was more, but would what looks like 3/8 to 1/2 rope at most handle that much force.



At the time I was surprised he lifted the the lathe at all. When it was in my 3/4 ton pickup I had some concerns about driving 400 miles. With that said, there's a bit of math involved in calculating the load each section of rope or cable is subjected to in the block and tackle arrangement.  This isn't something I do every day but I did enjoy the debates from the guys working the oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico. In there case they were dealing with what both ends of the line are attached to. That being the end that's tied off to the winch (deck) and the upper block carrying the dead load. All the strands between the pulley sets carry a divided load. The load rating for the cord is close to 600#. My position today, (especially when old guys are involved) after asking; "Are you sure you want to do that?" is to be far enough away to avoid the fallout, or, never on an oil rig.

What's involved in the stump removal is how intact the roots are, and we're guessing, but pulling sideways is your best bet. With everything commented, keeping the chain clean  would be first to keeping it straight because the clearances are tight and the chain is sized for the hoist.


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## scwhite

Ulma Doctor said:


> a come along is a lot friendlier to use horizontally than a chain fall, but a chain fall does work horizontally
> i pulled a 1200 lb lathe on skids, 20 ft to load onto a trailer with a 1T chain fall and tackle-
> it was a long day.... the chain falls' chain likes to bind when in is not in the upright position, but i managed to get it done.
> So can you!


I pulled a milling machine up in the trailer with a chain fall  it works good if yo feed the loose chains into it. 
     Two people make that easier


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## Tony Wells

It's not bad even by yourself if you are working from the far end of the loop so you can keep it tight, once the load is on it. Then the only thing is that it may want to turn on its anchor point so that the chain doesn't want to feed back through. I find it works best if the "axle" is kept horizontal. It is easier with 2 people, but manageable with one. But of course, always when working with things like this, it's a good idea to have someone there with you in case something were to go wrong. It does happen.


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## Dabbler

I've jammed a chain fall using it in the horizontal position, but no biggie, just release the tension and pry for a sec with a screwdriver to release the jammed chain.


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## Rustrp

OUCH, That Hurt! I was just slapped along side the head  by an eye opening epiphany. Once more I have allowed myself to be scammed by another tool addict. 

No sir, you go to the nearest rental yard and rent yourself a come-a-long to do the job, then wait for **When** to arrive. Yes, **when** you really need a chain fall.


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## woodchucker

Rustrp said:


> OUCH, That Hurt! I was just slapped along side the head  by an eye opening epiphany. Once more I have allowed myself to be scammed by another tool addict.
> 
> No sir, you go to the nearest rental yard and rent yourself a come-a-long to do the job, then wait for **When** to arrive. Yes, **when** you really need a chain fall.




Oh Nooo Mr. Bill... I can't do that. I have to have that new (used) tool.


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## aliva

25 pounds ammonium nitrate 1 quart diesel fuel = one big bang


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## Tozguy

Don't know what kind of tree it is or what kind of ground it is in but if only roots going straight down are holding it, wrap a chain around it with loop on one end and stick a 4x4 x8' into the loop. Then twist the sucker out.


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## Dabbler

25 pounds!?!?!?! of ammonium nitrate - that's one very big bang!  I hope this tree is waaaaay away from anything valuable and/or brakable!!


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## Rustrp

aliva said:


> 25 pounds ammonium nitrate 1 quart diesel fuel = one big bang



He doesn't care if the stump ever comes out, he just wants the chain fall. Let's look at it this way. A series of 1/2" holes drilled acros the top of the stump filled with liquid stump remover and it will crawl away in the middle of the night but that still doesn't get him a chain fall.


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## woodchucker

Tozguy said:


> Don't know what kind of tree it is or what kind of ground it is in but if only roots going straight down are holding it, wrap a chain around it with loop on one end and stick a 4x4 x8' into the loop. Then twist the sucker out.


Clay, and it was a bradford pear.  The soil is the problem, so is the granite that I had to take a sledge hammer to, one big chunk of it .  I'm thinking of taking my pressure washer to the bottom and see if I can get rid of the clay by blasting it out.I figure that would make it a lot easier.


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## scwhite

woochucker said:


> Clay, and it was a bradford pear.  The soil is the problem, so is the granite that I had to take a sledge hammer to, one big chunk of it .  I'm thinking of taking my pressure washer to the bottom and see if I can get rid of the clay by blasting it out.I figure that would make it a lot easier.


Go buy your chain fall first .
    Then blast it . 
         At least you get the chain fall like that.


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## eugene13

On sale at HF, 1 ton $39 and 3 different items for free.


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## Tozguy

Yes indeed tell your sweetheart that the experts at HM say you will need a new 5000 lb. chain fall and a new ultra high pressure sprayer. Plus if you are going to survive the job and continue being able to do the dishes you will need new steel toe boots, face mask and electronic ear muffs.
Anyways it might be worth a try.


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## woodchucker

eugene13 said:


> On sale at HF, 1 ton $39 and 3 different items for free.


Yes, but a 2 ton coffing is available for 75 and I'm sure I can get it for less, And a 2 ton yale for $35..
would you buy the HF or get a piece of history.


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## Dabbler

I'd buy the history.  I have 3 offshore chainfalls (long story) and just bought  a CF brand 2 ton used for 75 Canadian pesos.  Wish I had bought the old CF one years ago.  BTW CF is a commercial one made here until 10 years ago.  The old well made ones never die - you only need to replace the bushings every 50 years or so - unless someone breaks some teeth.  If it turns, it's worth it to buy history.


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## olstrat

Yes the will


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## woodchucker

History didn't happen. The seller baite and switched. The coffing pictured was not the coffing he was selling. The one he was selling had a cracked housing/frame, and was painted. the one in the pics had no paint.

Off to harbor freight to get a come along.  I decided not to look at the yale as I didn't like where it was located, lots of shootings in that area, so we see on the news.


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## Rustrp

woochucker said:


> The one he was selling had a cracked housing/frame, and was painted. the one in the pics had no paint.



So they thought you would take the bait & switch lying down?


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## woodchucker

Rustrp said:


> So they thought you would take the bait & switch lying down?


Both ebay and craigslist have some questionable characters. For Christmas my son wanted a lens for his cannon camera. over 800. I found a used one on craigslist. The guy said in excellent working condition. The lens would not move, totally hosed. He tried to say he said excellent looking condition. But clearly it said excellent working condition.. he said he knows nothing about what he sells.
Ebay stood behind me.
But with craigslist, you are on your own.  as soon as I saw the painted unit, I was put off, because it wasn't what he showed on the add. He said it's the same type of unit. But when I saw the crack.. I walked.


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## Rustrp

woochucker said:


> But when I saw the crack.. I walked.


Typical of CL in many cases and anyone needs to approach the seller alert, no matter what's being sold. 

If you go with HF I'm sure it will come with instructions on using it horizontally , clockwise or anti-clockwise.


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## Dabbler

The HF unit will work OK.  As I said, I have 3 offshore chain hoists, all of which have been tested at 3/4 of their rated weight.  The CF is 3 times the size, with gears to match.  Since I'll be needing all 2 tons of it, I'm glad for the find.   

When I buy offshore I derate the capacity by at least 25%...


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## woodchucker

I'm not done looking, they are plentiful on craigslist. I want a 2 ton.. some ask a lot, some not so much. 
I don't think I want to travel an hour again.  Trying to look for something closer.


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## Dabbler

Good fortune on your search!


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## Highsider

2 years ago I used a chain fall and some 1" nylon rope to apply about 3000 lb. pressure to insure that a large tree I was falling landed in the only very narrow safe slot it could land in without causing damage.  Had to stop a few times to help the back run hand chain line up and go in clean, but it worked great.  The nylon rope rubber banded the tree right into it's intended landing spot.  I wasn't pulling the roots out (too big a tree) so I just rented a stump grinder.   It's a concrete patio now.


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## strantor

Tried pulling on it with a pickup truck?
It won't get you a chainfall, but it might get your stump out.
If you try it, use as short a chain as possible.


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## RandyWilson

There ya go. Think BIG.  Why settle for a lousy chainfall when you could justify upgrading the pickup to a diesel 4x4 with big mud clopper tires!


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## woodchucker

It's down.  The come along worked fine.  No big diesel in the near  future for now. 
Although I live in farm country and there are enough of them here. Most of the young bucks like dusting everyone w black smoke. ..   I prefer an old style pu, w/ a bench seat and no seats behind me. And a full 8 ft bed....


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