# Buying a lathe, what tooling should I get/avoid?



## ttabbal (Nov 2, 2017)

I know there are some similar posts, but I hope you guys will offer suggestions anyway. I have been searching and reading, but getting a little bogged down in it... 

I have a pretty hard budget of $3000, including shipping. Items have to be available to purchase from a normal web store. EBay etc is going to cause problems as it's not me doing the actual ordering. I need to be able to supply a simple web link and basic info so they can put in a card and order. The lathe, stand, and shipping come to about $2500. I don't need the best quality, but better than Harbor Freight. 

Lathe is PM 1022V/1030V (depending on how long it takes for 1030s to come in) 

I know I want a tailstock drill chuck, I'll probably order that from PM with the machine. 

PM has some holder and insert sets that look nice. Grizzly has something similar that includes a cutoff/groove tool. I do want to be able to cut slots for snap-rings and o-rings eventually. And parting off is needed.


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## markba633csi (Nov 2, 2017)

A lot depends on what you plan to make is the standard response to that question- many of us just add tooling as we need it
Mark S.


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## T Bredehoft (Nov 2, 2017)

I agree with Mark, when you find you need something. you can generally get it within 2 days from somewhere on the internet. 
Or, we can tell you of about $1500 worth of stuff you might need somewhere down the road. 

One thought, If Matt offers a live center for the tailstock, get it. 

While I don't have a PM lathe, I do have one of Matt's mills, and find it eminently satisfactory.  His customer service is top notch.


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## Asm109 (Nov 2, 2017)

Items for the lathe that I could not live without.
Jacobs chuck for tailstock
live center for tail stock
Quick change toolpost and tool holders for following tools
Turning 
Facing
Boring
parting
Knurling

3jaw and 4 jaw chucks.
I use Hss tooling and grind my own bits.


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## kvt (Nov 2, 2017)

like most have said,  depends on what your are trying to make.    and do like me add as you need and find it on ebay and sales.   
I'm on a tight limit for getting some tooling etc,  so it is come as I can.   Also I purchase some stuff cheap HF,  then upgrade as I get a chance. 
you did not say if it could be  a bunch of sites or if it needed to be one or a few.    Also do you have any stuff already.   Mics, Calipers etc.

for the lathe itself.      
A live center is a must
The chuck for the tailstock 
Set of center drills and drill bits.   I have found the little stubby ones are better on my 10x24.   
QCTP is grate and makes things go a hole lot smoother or at least for me.
Extra Holders,   can be found many places for AXA style for as low as 10 to 12 plus shipping,   occasionally also free shipping.    Compare prices
If you have a good grinder HSS tooling as you can grind your own.  Again  deals can be found on web/ebay 
3 and 4 jaw chucks for the lathe normally get initial with the lathe
If it does not have the quick change gear box  then a full set of change gears
THe list can be endless,  but can be managed based on what you have, and what you are wanting to start doing.


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## Z2V (Nov 2, 2017)

If you order from PM get as much as you can of your list at the same time. It will all be included in the box with the machine, no extra shipping charge. The drill chuck shown with that lathe has been a very nice chuck for the price. Don't forget to add extra tool holders while your at it.


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## richl (Nov 2, 2017)

Drill chuck for the tailstock, while many of the tools you will get from Matt are great, I bought one of his more affordable mt3 keyless chucks... not so good. I ended up getting a nice one from glacern https://www.glacern.com/drill_chucks, more affordable than Matt's high precision models and very smooth, and mine is very good, very low runout. You save a few bucks for others things, a win-win.

Rich


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## Glenn Brooks (Nov 2, 2017)

Above all else you will need a decent dial indicator and magnetic base to hold the work properly in your chuck. plus a set of micrometers to accurately measure diameter of your work.  Maybe 0-1", 1-2", and 2-3" to start with.

Sometimes people don't think of these as tooling, but you can't do much on a lathe without these items.

Also  maybe look for a bunch of HSS 3/8 or 1/2" used lathe bits.  I have purchased a package of 20 or more used cutters for a few bucks on eBay and usually find half or more can be reused and re ground many times in my shop - at great savings over cost of new.

I shop around a lot for used tooling on eBay - often finding great deals on decent quality tools.  Just be cautious 

Glenn


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## mikey (Nov 2, 2017)

In my opinion, I would suggest you save a little more and buy the PM1127VF-LB. Before someone flames me, let me tell you why. 

The 1127 has:

 a D1-4 camlock spindle so any D1-4 chuck will fit. Not so with the 3 stud/lock ring affair; very limiting.
a 1.5" bore vs a 1" bore. This is a huge advantage when working with longer stock.
power feed is with a feed shaft instead of the lead screw. Think wear and tear.
a bed width of 7" vs 5.3". This has a big impact on the rigidity and accuracy of the lathe.
hardened, ground and balanced spindle on precision bearings - big plus.
You may think that you'll use the 1030 and upgrade later but if you begin with a decent lathe then the need to upgrade may not be necessary. Yeah, it costs almost $1000.00 more but, to me, it is worth saving a little longer and getting a much better built lathe. The 1127 is the lowest model lathe I would personally even consider in the PM line - you get a LOT of lathe for your buck.


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## Z2V (Nov 3, 2017)

Mike made good points. The 1127 would max your current budget, but you could get the machine then start accumulating tooling as go. Worth strong consideration. I have a MT3 drill chuck I can loan you to get you going.


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## ttabbal (Nov 3, 2017)

Well, I have a few calipers, dial and digital. I also have a couple Starett micrometers. I do have a HF mag base and dial indicator. I have no idea how accurate that is.. Are there some good brands/vendors for those? 

I'm planning on getting HSS blanks and/or used bits to grind. I made some models from keystock (thanks mikey!) that went well. 

It can be a few websites. It is a gift from my employer, thus the budget and source restrictions. I don't want to make it difficult for them to order. 

Now, I have to admit that the 1127 does look like a nice machine. And I could toss in the extra cash for the shipping cost. I would have to source some tooling though. At least a few HSS blanks to grind on. I can build a stand and put it on my bench for now. I had been considering the smaller machine so I could also get the tooling. But if it's really that much better, it might be worth it to consider. 

Z2V, that's very generous of you. Thanks for the offer.


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## mikey (Nov 3, 2017)

ttabbal said:


> I would have to source some tooling though. At least a few HSS blanks to grind on.



You buy the lathe and I'll send you some good HSS blanks for free! (Unground, of course. You gotta' jump in some time.)


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## ttabbal (Nov 3, 2017)

Wow, thanks mikey! You guys are great around here. I hope I can contribute more as I learn. 

So, that still leaves me with the same question though. What supplies should I be looking for to get started? Is the basic dial indicator enough to get going? I guess I need to start trolling eBay more..


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## Z2V (Nov 3, 2017)

You can get the machine, some tool blanks, some scrap metal and at least get used to using the machine. Then as you go you can start thinking about precision.


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## mikey (Nov 3, 2017)

ttabbal said:


> Wow, thanks mikey! You guys are great around here. I hope I can contribute more as I learn.
> 
> So, that still leaves me with the same question though. What supplies should I be looking for to get started? Is the basic dial indicator enough to get going? I guess I need to start trolling eBay more..



The 1127 comes with all the basic tooling you need other than a drill chuck and a live center. I will send you some 3/8" HSS blanks to play with. If you want to try using carbide tools, PM sells a nice set of SCLCR/L tools with inserts for a nice price: http://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/38-turning-38-boring-tool-set/

You need a decent dial indicator and a dial test indicator. If you want good quality, Mitutoyo is what I would go for. If you want the best, buy Swiss versions - Compac, B&S, Interapid; more expensive in the short term but much cheaper in the long run. Buy good condition used versions on ebay. You need the DI to center work in your 4 jaw chuck. You need the DTI to evaluate concentricity of your spindle and you will use it a LOT on your milling machine when you have one.

You already have dial calipers and mics so you're good there. Spotting drills, drill bits, center drills come next. Later, get boring bars. I would not invest in external carbide threading tools for now; they are relatively expensive and you can cut very good threads with a HSS threading tool for now. For internal threading you can use taps for now; invest in a decent internal threading bar/bars later.

If you need advice on which drills, boring tools, threading tools when you are ready to buy them, ask and we'll all chip in advice. Right now, you need to decide on a lathe. That will determine which drill chuck and live center you need. The rest can come later.

Oh, almost forgot. When your lathe shows up, buy some 6061-T6 and some 12L14 mild steel to start learning to turn. These materials are easy to machine and will help you to learn how to turn stuff. A good source is an ebay seller here: http://stores.ebay.com/Stoners-Tools-and-Raw-Materials?_rdc=1

When your lathe is on the way, send me a PM with your mailing address and I'll get some tool bits to you.


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## slamadeleine (Nov 3, 2017)

For material, I also suggest https://hobbymetalkits.com their prices are very reasonable and shipping was quick.

No affiliation, just a happy customer.


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## Uglydog (Nov 3, 2017)

Nearly all my machine tools and tooling was used when I bought it.
I've upgraded my used stuff with better used stuff as I've learned machining.
Be careful about buying used stuff it can be tired or worn out. Similarly, inexpensive new stuff can be even worse for precision and accuracy.
Some of this stuff you can make yourself.

I've had really good luck with buying used stuff here at HM. This comment is merely truth, not an ad (I've occasionally put stuff up for sale here at HM). Price has been fair or cheap, and quality has always been as described. It often comes with online or even real time telephone coaching if I want/need it.

Daryl
MN


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## ttabbal (Nov 3, 2017)

It sounds like my thought that the DI I have is enough to make sure my workpiece is mostly straight for starting out and getting used to the machine. I fully expect accuracy to be limited by the operator to start with. It's been a long time since I ran a lathe, so I plan on starting with basic stuff. Turn to size, facing, and maybe threading. That should give me plenty of time to find better measuring equipment and fill in gaps for tooling. I've seen a few basic projects around that might be fun to learn with as well. 

The longer term goal is stuff like this... http://www.lokiresearch.com/images/Documents/38mm_case.pdf

And I'm sure I'll find lots of interesting things to make as I go. 

Thinking of projects, is dead tree good for a lathe bench or is this a good excuse to break out the welding gear?


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## Uglydog (Nov 3, 2017)

Good and appropriate question!!!
There is currently an active thread on wood lathe benches.
Check it out...

Daryl
MN


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## RandyM (Nov 3, 2017)

Here's a current thread on Lathe benches.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/bench-for-a-sb-9.63058/

Here's more.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/lathe-bench-laminated-mdf.34723/

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/yalb-yet-another-lathe-bench.10957/

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/lathe-bench-project.1761/


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## David S (Nov 3, 2017)

If I am looking at the drawing correctly, you may need a steady rest in order to make those internal grooves.

David


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## ttabbal (Nov 3, 2017)

David S said:


> If I am looking at the drawing correctly, you may need a steady rest in order to make those internal grooves.
> 
> David




I believe that's true. The lathe comes with one, so I should be good there. 


Thanks for the bench links RandyM!


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## richl (Nov 3, 2017)

1 1/2" bore thru the headstock and a steady rest that is capable to hold that size piece. The ones typically sold with the smaller lathes may not have that capacity.
Just things to look out for. You have the headstock bore, good choice on a lathe. It's a quagmire of features, specs, and lathe/machinist jargon.

Good luck


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## Nogoingback (Nov 3, 2017)

ttabbal said:


> Wow, thanks mikey! You guys are great around here. I hope I can contribute more as I learn.
> 
> So, that still leaves me with the same question though. What supplies should I be looking for to get started? Is the basic dial indicator enough to get going? I guess I need to start trolling eBay more..




Here's another source of micrometers, indicators etc.  These guys sell refurbished tools at reasonable prices which is a lot better than taking
your chances on eBay.  I bought a 2" micrometer from them: they shipped quickly and the tool is fine.

https://shop.idealprec.com/collections/demo-items


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## ttabbal (Nov 3, 2017)

Nogoingback said:


> Here's another source of micrometers, indicators etc.  These guys sell refurbished tools at reasonable prices which is a lot better than taking
> your chances on eBay.  I bought a 2" micrometer from them: they shipped quickly and the tool is fine.
> 
> https://shop.idealprec.com/collections/demo-items




Looks like they have some nice gear. What kind of range and graduation should I be looking for as a basic DI for general use on the lathe? It seems like most would work, but I wonder if I'm missing something.. 

It doesn't seem like I would ever want a workpiece 0.5" off center, so aligning in a chuck should be fine. I can see measuring movement of the tools perhaps using a longer range though.


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## mikey (Nov 3, 2017)

A 0-1" travel, 0.0005" DI would work.


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## Asm109 (Nov 3, 2017)

I don't have DRO's on my lathe. I have a 0.001 resolution 2 inch travel dial indicator mounted on the lathe bed.
I also have a .030 range 0.0001 resolution DTI for indicating in chucks and tapers and such.


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## Uglydog (Nov 4, 2017)

I didn't get started on this thread to sell stuff. Really I didn't...
I'm off to work for my weekend shift. 
However, on Monday I'll list some inspection equipment in the for sale here at HM.

Daryl
MN


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## Bob Korves (Nov 4, 2017)

Uglydog said:


> However, on Monday I'll list some inspection equipment in the for sale here at HM.


Sale here on HM?  Just your stuff, or is there a site wide sale I should really know about?


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## ttabbal (Nov 4, 2017)

Ok. So I order an 1127. What do I need to get it ready to make chips? I've never set up a new machine before. Reading up, sounds like after running things a bit for testing, I would be smart to clean it up really well and change the oil. 

Can it sit on my bench or does it need to be bolted down? I can get some dead trees in to make a stand too. Might be a fun project while I wait. 

I'm looking at the manual for the 1228 as Matt has mentioned they are very similar. 

Things to get... 

Degreaser to remove the "waxy oil". They recommend against brake cleaners and acetone. Any recommendations? 
Fresh oil. Type? ISO 68.. Any recommended brands? 
It mentions including an oiler, so I'm probably good there. 
Some round stock of the previously mentioned types. 1" diameter? 

Remove schmoo
Check oil level
Test and inspect 
Clean and oil change, lube the ball oilers
Level and test for taper etc.. 
Turn perfectly good stock into chips.. 
Drool over other tooling I'll want later (there's always another tool to drool at)


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## markba633csi (Nov 5, 2017)

I like using Coleman camp fuel (naphtha) for degreasing, it's easy on paint and evaporates fast.  Low odor.
Mark S.


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## mikey (Nov 5, 2017)

ttabbal said:


> Ok. So I order an 1127. What do I need to get it ready to make chips? I've never set up a new machine before. Reading up, sounds like after running things a bit for testing, I would be smart to clean it up really well and change the oil.
> 
> Can it sit on my bench or does it need to be bolted down? I can get some dead trees in to make a stand too. Might be a fun project while I wait.
> 
> ...



PM1127vf-lb: a wise decision, Sir. 

I should think a solid wood bench, properly designed to not sag, would work fine. Lots of guys use a mobile tool cart as a base and I think this is the way I would go - cart plus a really solid wood top and a 1/4" thick steel plate on top of that. That way you can make leveling adjusters for the lathe and not have to mess with also leveling the base.

Cleaning should be easy. Paint thinner/mineral spirits usually works well. I have not used Naptha as Mark suggested but I have read that it works well, too. White Scotchbrite and WD-40 also works well; this is what I used on my lathe.

At some point, buy a machinist's level to level the lathe. You will need it. There have been many discussions on this subject so read up and make up your own mind on what you need.

Beyond that, you will need a good hydraulic oil for the headstock and other sites and some way oil for the ways and you should be good. Oh, as you clean up the lathe, shoot some oil into every oil port and make sure they are wide open and flow oil well; trust me, you want to do this.


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## British Steel (Nov 5, 2017)

I'm going to be Mr Negative - don't buy the cheap Chinese brazed-on carbide tooling, unless you have a SiC wheel to rough it to shape and a diamond lap/wheel/hone to get a good edge, indexable carbide (*positive rake*) tooling's usable out of the box and HSS is easier to grind and get a good edge.
The brazed carbide tools come blunt with the wrong geometry and you'll struggle to get a good finish and a decent cut, particularly the final finish cuts (unless you don't take cuts below about 0.020)

Now for Mr Positive:
I agree with Mikey about the 1127 over the 1030 (although I've had neither, I've worked on another importer's versions of both), a camlock chuck makes life a lot easier (as does a QCTP and a hatful of holders), the 1.5" spindle bore makes setups for long work easier, and the wider the bed the more accurate the lathe will be. "Toolroom" lathes used to be gauged by how much wider the bed ways were than the centre height, both for rigidity of the bed and for the "base of the triangle" when considering cutting forces and the effect of any (necessary) clearances on the positional accuracy of the tool tip.

Dave H. (the other one)


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## Downunder Bob (Nov 5, 2017)

ttabbal said:


> I know there are some similar posts, but I hope you guys will offer suggestions anyway. I have been searching and reading, but getting a little bogged down in it...
> 
> I have a pretty hard budget of $3000, including shipping. Items have to be available to purchase from a normal web store. EBay etc is going to cause problems as it's not me doing the actual ordering. I need to be able to supply a simple web link and basic info so they can put in a card and order. The lathe, stand, and shipping come to about $2500. I don't need the best quality, but better than Harbor Freight.
> 
> ...



One thing I would add to what the other guys have said is, and it depends on where you live. Call in and make yourself known to some local machine shops, explain that your just a beginner at a new hobby and ask if they have any bar ends or offcuts that are going in the scrap bin. I've found that about half of them will be quite generous with what they will give you, use this material for practice work. I have found that I rarely ever have to buy material for projects, mostly get it for free or just a couple of $. Good luck.


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## Reeltor (Nov 5, 2017)

Depending upon where you will be degreasing your new lathe, Kerosene or Diesel. Use terry/ cotton cloths to remove the schmoo. As for the headstock oil, most older American Iron say to flush out the headstock with Kerosene; I don't know what PM recommends but be sure to flush it first. Then refill with fresh new oil, I use DTE (Mobile) in my machines. Some people recommend using ISO68 hydraulic oil from Tractor Supply or Northern Tool. I don't like that idea, I'm not an oil expert but in my mind a quality circulating oil from Mobile, Exxon, Chevron or the like is far and away better than the generic stuff from a discounter.  You can get the oil from Grainger, MSC or any other mail order tooling supplier.  Free pickup at Grainger or MSC if one is near to you.
One more recommendation, IF you decide to try carbide, buy a good carbide tool holder and indexable carbides not the brazed on stuff from Harbor Freight. Good luck with your new lathe, you have a very generous employer


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## mksj (Nov 5, 2017)

Agree with other's comments and specifically with Mikey/British Steel, that unless one is only making small parts, the 1127 and 1228 are really the only entry level lathes that I would recommend. The other major advantage over other manufacture's lathes in this size class is the D1-4 mount, 1.5" spindle and power feed on the cross slide. I also agree with British Steel that I would start out with purchasing an insert tool holders, CCMT/CCGT 21.5X or 32.5X inserts to get you started (a 21.XX insert fits in a 1/4" circle, 32.XX a 3/8" circle, tool holders are for a specific sized insert and a specific shape). The Shar's set below has other insert styles which are also very useful. A lot less fuss, and once the tooling alignment is set you do not have to realign anything when you change the insert. The inserts come in many types and designs, but I primarily use a CCMT 21.51 or 32.51 coated insert for steel and super alloys, and a CCGT 21.51 or 32.51 uncoated for aluminum and softer alloys. An insert can last me up to 6 months and they can be had for a few bucks. By starting off with insert holders, it is one less learning factor as to figuring out how to turn metals. As you get proficient, you can get into grinding HSS for specific profiles or applications.
I would recommended a different insert holder starter kit, some thing like this one:
http://www.shars.com/products/index...ders/1-2-indexable-carbide-turning-tool-set-1

You can buy  a blade parting tool/blade for around $35 (probably with a 1/2" HSS blade), but you will most likely have difficulty parting a 1.5" rod on this this size machine with a 1/2" blade height.  You also will not get a square cut because of the blade deflection. There are some shank style cutoff holders that might work, these take GTN-3 inserts. I believe this grooving parting tool holder is in the set above.  You would be better off cutting the piece with a saw and then turning the end on the lathe. You can grind HSS blanks for grooving.
http://www.shars.com/universal-parting-blade-tool-holder-7-type-107-axa
http://www.shars.com/products/index...-screw-clamp-deep-grooving-and-cut-off-holder

You will need a number of AXA holders for all the insert holders, best to get 6-8 up front and order with the holders to save on shipping. Although Shar's offeres decent quality tooling at the price level, they tend to be much more expensive when it comes to shipping.


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## ttabbal (Nov 5, 2017)

Thanks for all the info! I had already decided to avoid the brazed carbide, at least for now. I like the idea of the inserts, but does this lathe have the speed to use them properly? I'm sure I'll end up trying some, I tend to like trying out everything and getting a feel for how things work for me. I like that Shars set. A little bit of everything. I've also tried grinding tool models in keystock. I like how they turned out and will be trying HSS as well. Obviously, I haven't tried cutting with them, but so far they look good and are very sharp, even without honing. For cutting tools, I'm avoiding Harbor Freight. They are fine for a lot of stuff, but the forces involved in turning steel make me want a higher level of quality control.

I would never have thought of using fuel for cleaning. I do have mineral spirits, and WD40.. I think I have some Coleman fuel as well, I'll have to try a bit and compare.


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## Bob Korves (Nov 5, 2017)

ttabbal said:


> I like the idea of the inserts, but does this lathe have the speed to use them properly?


Slower machines will not be able to use the speed capabilities of carbide inserts, but they can still use the convenience and wearing potential.  For achieving a good surface finish at lower speeds, buying sharp positive rake inserts and/or sharpening the carbide inserts might help.


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## BGHansen (Nov 5, 2017)

Not adding anything, just what I started with for tooling and other accessories and what have been added over the years.  You'll get the bug and will add more tooling as time goes on.  It can get obsessive buying more tools for your tools!

Really nice convenience is a QCTP and a variety of tool holders.  I use a lot of carbide inserted tool holders; many options out there but a decent start is the 1/2" triangular sets of 5 different holders for around $30-$40.  You'll likely find in actual use you don't use all 5.
HSS cut off T-shaped or double angled sides for parting.  The QCTP kits usually include this holder.
Drill chuck for the tail stock and some center drills.  
Live center for the tail stock.
Some 3/8" and 1/2" HSS blanks for turning, threading, etc.
Micrometer and/or dial caliper for checking diameters.
Dial indicator and mag base for checking run out (4-jaw set up) and/or checking the Z-position when set to the end of the carriage.
Test indicator for checking run-out also, though a 0-1" will do the same thing.
Center gauge for setting up your threading tool.
Chip brush (and tweezers).
Cutting fluid, I prefer non-sulfur based to keep the stink down.

Some luxury items are a scissor type knurling tool, works soooo much better than the bump style in my experience.
Telescoping gauges for checking bores/inside diameters
DRO
Taper attachment if available.
Collet chuck/collets - collets are great!  I have one lathe that's set up with a collet chuck and another with a set-tru 3-jaw chuck.  Collets should be very accurate for staying on center if removing work from the lathe for a secondary operation, then returning to the lathe.  Plus, they don't mar the surface of your work as easily as a really tight 3-jaw chuck.
Dedicated roll-away for your lathe tooling.  Mine has all of the collets, spiders, tool bits, measuring tools, dedicated drill bits, etc. for quick use.
Optivisor for close up looking at work.  I wear glasses with bifocals and catch myself peeking over my glasses for a better look.  Use a magnifier (not very ofter), but do have a pair of safety glasses on the head stock for protection if peeking over the glasses.
More and more tool holders.  I have around 35 on one lathe and 15 on the other.  It's really convenient to switch between a triangular bit to a D diamond bit to a W bit, etc. without swapping tools in the tool holders and resetting center.

Some photos attached of my QCTP holders, tail stock tooling set up and HF roll-around tool rack dedicated to the G0709 lathe.  Yes, I have gone to excess on a number of things.  I'm sure you'll come up with better ways to organize your accumulation with WILL happen once you jump in!  Enjoy the adventure!

Bruce


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## mksj (Nov 5, 2017)

The insert holders in the Shar's set are neutral rake , so do not take a lot of Hp. I usually run my carbide at 1/3-1/2 the recommended SFM, which is for more production machines and flood coolant. I have no problems with surface finish, and my normal cutting RPM is around 500-1200 RPM depending on the stock diameter and material. At the price of that set, you can't go wrong. Better inserts will work better because of profiles, coatings, etc. HSS may produce better finish at much lower speeds and feeds, but given that an insert last me 6+ months under fairly hard use, I just do not want to be playing around with grinding tooling if I do not have too. If a insert does go like when I am threading, I just replace it and do not have to worry about alignment or positioning. YMMV.


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## Cadillac STS (Nov 5, 2017)

Keep an eye on your local craigslist for a horizontal bandsaw. You will need to cut stock and that will be useful. If you have a harbor freight nearby their small horizontal bandsaw is decent 

Do some searching in your town for places to buy stock. Might take a few phone calls or post your location here for someone who might know and tell you.   Want a place that sells small amounts to a hobiest. It is nice to have a place to go browse stock and have some cut for you. Likely way less expensive and no shipping than online ordering.


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## ttabbal (Nov 6, 2017)

Good idea on locating stock. I'm in Herriman, Utah. It's near Salt Lake. If anyone knows of any hobbyist friendly shops in the area willing to sell small bits to practice on, please let me know. I know we have a couple vendors around, they generally want to sell full sticks though. Still, might be cheaper than paying shipping. 

Nice to know that the HF bandsaw is a decent machine. I was looking at it. I see some pop up from time to time on the local classifieds as well. It's on my todo list. Right now I have an abrasive chop saw, it works alright, but does heat the metal a fair bit.


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## dlane (Nov 6, 2017)

What kinda dead trees,


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## Glenn Brooks (Nov 6, 2017)

Might try diesel to clean off the packing grease.  I use diesel as a Universal solvent all the time on machine tools with good results.  Don't know what protective oil the factory puts on new machines, as never been lucky enuf to have one!

I would check your Manual for proper set up and 'breakin' instructions.  Doesn't make sense to me to change the oil if it's never been run.  One thing for sure, you should probably level the lathe once you get the machine sitting where you want it, on your shop floor.  You will need to take the twist out of the bed to hold consistent cuts along the work.  Check out the other threads on leveling. There are some very interesting stories out there.

Have fun with your new machine!

Glenn


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## ttabbal (Nov 6, 2017)

dlane said:


> What kinda dead trees,



The dead kind...  

My current thinking is 2x4 and maybe some 4x4. Based on the designs people use for large aquariums. I figure it can hold 2000lbs of water, so it can likely hold the 600lb lathe. Topped with 3/4 ply, maybe laminated with a second layer. A little oversized to give room for tools, workpieces, a vise, etc.. 

Thanks Glenn. I'm planning to do level and align everything before doing any work on it. I'm going over leveling threads and the manual to get a good idea how to do it right. Fresh oil is mostly just part of the cleaning. Some people have mentioned finding interesting stuff in the gearbox on Chinese machines. Could be shipping, QC, whatever.. Seems like cheap insurance to rinse anything like that out. May not be anything to worry about, but better safe than sorry.


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## David S (Nov 6, 2017)

Regarding buying small amounts of metal for the hobbyist.  Our local metal recycling guy has quite a selection of raw materials.  They don't mind cutting off what ever I want and they will even let me look through the scrap that has been brought in for cut offs etc, and they will sell it to me at scrap prices.  They separate all the types of metals, so I am often able to get nice short chunks of brass and aluminum.

David


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## ttabbal (Nov 8, 2017)

It's official, the 1127 lathe has been ordered. Backordered, but they expect to get more soon. Let the games begin!


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## ttabbal (Nov 16, 2017)

So, I'm looking at oils. I am leaning toward Mobil DTE Heavy Medium (ISO 68) for the gearbox. 

I found a good price on Vactra 4, they recommend it for the ways on large machines. Would it be a good idea on this lathe or am I better off picking something else? My thought for it was for the ways and oil fittings. Seems a lot of people like Vactra 2, which is the same viscosity at the DTE I'm already buying. Should I use that?


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## Bob Korves (Nov 16, 2017)

Vactra #2 is the usual choice for smaller lathes.  #4 is usually for bigger machines, depending.


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## ttabbal (Nov 16, 2017)

Sure. I guess my question is, does it cause problems for a smaller machine? It's much higher viscosity, but that seems like it might be a good thing if it's not turning into a solid or something.. Probably harder to pump into the ports... I'll probably just look for the #2, it just got me thinking.


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## Bob Korves (Nov 16, 2017)

I don't really know that much about #4 way oil.  My 13x40 lathe manual said to use Vactra #2, so I did, and it seems fine, but I have nothing else to compare it to other than oils for different applications.


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## TakeDeadAim (Nov 17, 2017)

When I received my mill from Matt I was pleasantly surprised to find all the brown goop usually associated with new machines had been removed.  It really took very little cleaning with some Purple Power spray to be ready to use.  In speaking with him he un crates the machines, cleans and tests then re=crates for shipment to the end customer.  Great customer service.

You will need some way oil, like Mobil Vactra #2, which you can get from McMaster Carr, MSC, where ever you can find it for less.   Im not sure what is in the head and carriage on those machines but a phone call to QMT would answer that.  Usually a light trans hydraulic oil like the Mobilgear series of oils is used but equivalent products are made by a number of lubricant companies.  There is usually a run in period where you spend a bit of time in each speed just letting it run, engaging the feeds etc. Then complete an oil change in the gearboxes, check the drive belts etc.

The lathe must be bolted to a bench or stand, do not over build the stand.  Lathes are made to be adjusted to cut straight, this is accomplished by the head and tail of the casting being the supporting structure.  If the stand is made too stiff the head and tail of the casting become one solid unit and leveling and dialing in for a true cut over parts in excess of say 6" becomes difficult.  If you look at the stands sold for these lathes it is really two cabinets with a piece of sheet metal between.  Your design should emulate this.

Quite frankly learning to grind and use HSS tools is a great experience.  I do a lot of my work with them because they are rather inexpensive and easy to sharpen.  One place I do like carbide insert tooling is for threading and grooving and those tools can be purchased as needed.

Have fun and be sure and post some photos of the arrival and set up.  I know Im not the only one who like to see them.


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## TakeDeadAim (Nov 17, 2017)

BGHansen said:


> Not adding anything, just what I started with for tooling and other accessories and what have been added over the years.  You'll get the bug and will add more tooling as time goes on.  It can get obsessive buying more tools for your tools!
> 
> Really nice convenience is a QCTP and a variety of tool holders.  I use a lot of carbide inserted tool holders; many options out there but a decent start is the 1/2" triangular sets of 5 different holders for around $30-$40.  You'll likely find in actual use you don't use all 5.
> HSS cut off T-shaped or double angled sides for parting.  The QCTP kits usually include this holder.
> ...


Can I get an enlargement of your QCTP rack.  I only have one row and Ive been told its excessive. LOL  I like to not have to re set tools and zeros in the DRO


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## ttabbal (Nov 17, 2017)

Pricing on Vactra 2 is annoying. Shipped, $50 1 gallon. About $110 for 5 gallons. I don't really want 5 gallons, but sheesh.


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## TakeDeadAim (Nov 17, 2017)

McMaster Carr is $28 a gallon, MSC $25.01, I cant imagine shipping being $20 or more.  If so see if you have a Mobil Lubricants dealer in Salt Lake,  you could get your gear lube and some Vactra at the same time.  I get my gear oil, (I run the same thing in all the gearboxes in the shop, and buy that in 5 Gal containers which are expensive to ship.  I just called the local guy and asked for an equivalent to the recommended product.  I spent the first part of my career in tool repair and rebuilding, believe me we did not stock 20 different lubes,  Vactra 2 and 4 and a light and medium trans hydraulic.


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## Z2V (Nov 17, 2017)

There is a guy local to me that bought the 5 gal bucket then sold off a few gallons at $20/gal on CL. I got one of them.


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## ttabbal (Nov 17, 2017)

I'm looking at MSCs site and it says $38.48. I see the $28 on McMaster. I do wish they would give a shipping cost though.


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## BGHansen (Nov 17, 2017)

TakeDeadAim said:


> Can I get an enlargement of your QCTP rack.  I only have one row and Ive been told its excessive. LOL  I like to not have to re set tools and zeros in the DRO


Hi TakeDeadAim,

Don't mean to encroach on the OP's thread, but here are some photos of my two lathes.  The Grizzly G0709 has the two-tiered rack.  Unistrut bolted to the back splash as low as it'd go and up high; maximize the stability.  Then I welded up some angle brackets from 3/16" thick by 2" wide steel.  It's actually pretty stable, doesn't bounce back and forth (much) when I tug on it hard.

The other set up is for my Clausing #5418.  I made a roll-around back splash and attached a length of unistrut to the top tubing with a couple of aluminum blocks.

Tool holders are held in place with 1/8" thick aluminum "L" pieces that bolt to the unistrut and slip into the tool holder dovetail.

I can take anything from my Grizzly and use it on the Clausing without adjusting center.  I made up some shims that are the difference in height between the two lathes (have to raise the tool holders on the Clausing from the Grizzly setting).  Just grab off the Grizzly rack, drop the tool holder in place on the Clausing and slip the shim under the adjusting wheel, then lock it down.

Bruce


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## ttabbal (Nov 17, 2017)

That's a nice collection of tool holders! Things to aspire to.


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## Bob Korves (Nov 17, 2017)

TakeDeadAim said:


> The lathe must be bolted to a bench or stand, do not over build the stand. Lathes are made to be adjusted to cut straight, this is accomplished by the head and tail of the casting being the supporting structure. If the stand is made too stiff the head and tail of the casting become one solid unit and leveling and dialing in for a true cut over parts in excess of say 6" becomes difficult. If you look at the stands sold for these lathes it is really two cabinets with a piece of sheet metal between. Your design should emulate this.


A stand can be rock solid, then the lathe bed itself is used for leveling and adjusting with shims or whatever between lathe and stand.


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## Downunder Bob (Nov 18, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> A stand can be rock solid, then the lathe bed itself is used for leveling and adjusting with shims or whatever between lathe and stand.



I agree Bob, the base should preferably be rock solid, then the lathe, or any machine, can be bolted to it, using either shims, or jacking screws to get it flat and square. If this is done correctly then the base will add extra stiffness to the lathe and help prevent any distortion.

In a factory the machine will normally be bolted to a concrete floor using shims, or jacking screws. This is the correct method.


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## TakeDeadAim (Nov 19, 2017)

Bob,  Yes you can essentially bring the floor up to any height you would like. The design would take more steel and add more weight. The task of unbolting, separating, and inserting shims to do something as simple as leveling, when the option to build leveling screws (or leveling screws and hold downs), into a base design would, in my opinion, seem much simpler.


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## Downunder Bob (Nov 19, 2017)

TakeDeadAim said:


> Bob,  Yes you can essentially bring the floor up to any height you would like. The design would take more steel and add more weight. The task of unbolting, separating, and inserting shims to do something as simple as leveling, when the option to build leveling screws (or leveling screws and hold downs), into a base design would, in my opinion, seem much simpler.



Yes that is what I did, my lathe came equiped with 4 tapped holes and jacking screws, plus clearance holes alongside them for hold down bolts, I welded up a base frame keeping it as square as I could, I have also fitted it with jacking bolts to set it square off the floor. Then I set hold down bolts into the topside of it. 

When the base was set up flat and square on the floor, we lowered the lathe onto the frame, then using the jacking screws and hold down bolts to bolt the lathe up square, so it is now not only square, but also much more rigid as the base frame is now part of the lathe.. 

Using shims is a more painstaking process, but when done properly is just as good. normaly shims are only used in a factory where the lathe would sit directly on a concrete floor, the hold down bolts will be set in the concrete, either when it is poured or later by drilling holes and setting the bolts in with rock bolt adhesive. It is more difficult to set steel plates in the floor for the jacking screws, but it can be done, this why shims are often used. 

When I was an apprentice I took part in this process an many occasions as the factory was enlarged and existing machines were relocated,and new ones installed, it was a great learning experience.

I gather many hobbyists in USA have timber floors in the shops, In this case it is essential to make a rigid frame for bolting you machines to as the timber floors will move and put undue stresses on the machine frame and it will never be square. 

I did take some photos, I'll have to find them and post them.

Bob.


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## TakeDeadAim (Nov 19, 2017)

20 years of installs of new and rebuilt machines and the only shims I ever used were under jack screws that ran out of travel.  We Cored holes into concrete to set hold down bolts if they were not put in with the machine pad and the machines leveled with either supplied jack screws and hold downs or tapered machine jacks and hold down straps dependant on the manufacturers recommendations.  Everything from turret lathes to 50' gantry mills.  Worked on some older sites that had timber floors with combinations of mounting plates and hold down screws, but only at some very very old plants.  I'm not sure what type of welding process is used to make a frame that is square to machine tool specifications but I would like to see that.

I feel like people are mistaking my initial suggestion, so I'll never make it here again.  Standard size lathes, like the one that is the topic of this post, are made with the mounting points where they are for specific reasons.  Making a bench or frame to defeat any engineered in ability for the lathe to be adjusted on installation defeats the purpose of said engineering.  This is of course my experience and what I was taught in a career of aligning, installing and rebuilding machine tools.  Your mileage may vary.


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## Downunder Bob (Nov 20, 2017)

TakeDeadAim said:


> 20 years of installs of new and rebuilt machines and the only shims I ever used were under jack screws that ran out of travel.  We Cored holes into concrete to set hold down bolts if they were not put in with the machine pad and the machines leveled with either supplied jack screws and hold downs or tapered machine jacks and hold down straps dependant on the manufacturers recommendations.  Everything from turret lathes to 50' gantry mills.  Worked on some older sites that had timber floors with combinations of mounting plates and hold down screws, but only at some very very old plants.  I'm not sure what type of welding process is used to make a frame that is square to machine tool specifications but I would like to see that.
> 
> I feel like people are mistaking my initial suggestion, so I'll never make it here again.  Standard size lathes, like the one that is the topic of this post, are made with the mounting points where they are for specific reasons.  Making a bench or frame to defeat any engineered in ability for the lathe to be adjusted on installation defeats the purpose of said engineering.  This is of course my experience and what I was taught in a career of aligning, installing and rebuilding machine tools.  Your mileage may vary.



I'm not sure who is misunderstanding who, I didn't claim my welded base was square, I said it was as quare as I could make it. If the machine is joined to it correcdtly with bolts and jacking screws there will be no added stress to the machine, but they will become as one. 

I would have liked to bolt mine to the floor, but for two reasons I couldn't.   1. the floor has plastic pipes in it for underfloor heating.
2. I wanted tp raise the machine up about 75 -100mm 3" -4". So I elected to do as I did. The lathe is raised up as required and is independent of the floor, which isn't quite flat anyway, The base and lathe are bolted together in a way that imposes no added stresses on the lathe and yet supports it as intended and adds extra stiffness. 

Bob


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## Dabbler (Nov 20, 2017)

I had some things to say, but now I feel I shouldn't. sorry.


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## ttabbal (Nov 20, 2017)

richl said:


> Drill chuck for the tailstock, while many of the tools you will get from Matt are great, I bought one of his more affordable mt3 keyless chucks... not so good. I ended up getting a nice one from glacern https://www.glacern.com/drill_chucks, more affordable than Matt's high precision models and very smooth, and mine is very good, very low runout. You save a few bucks for others things, a win-win.




Thanks for the suggestion. I ordered a drill chuck from them. They shipped it insanely fast, same day for an afternoon order. Got it today and it was probably the best packaged item I've ever received. It's also heavier than I expected. I'm not sure what I expected, but I have whole drills with motors that are lighter.


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## richl (Nov 20, 2017)

The good ones are much heavier than the cheaper ones. You won't be sorry. I really like mine, I'm going to get a nmtb30 version for my mill.


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## MarkM (Nov 20, 2017)

Carbide is no doubt great tooling and many great suggestions but my personal view is with the hss at this stage of the game you will learn not just how to grind your tools but it will give you an idea of what changes to tool geometry actually  do and once you can read your chips you can relate that with tooling  and make a more educated purchase when it comes to tool holders and inserts.  Also qctp are great also but again my view is not needed and a four post tool post can be quicker when you have all your tools mounted and just have to index to the next tool.  Also once your shims are set up for centre height there is no fumbling around the next time. Just keep the shims with that tool.  Save your money for more important things you really need as a machinist that have true quality that you will have forever like top shelf(quality) measuring instruments!


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## Dabbler (Nov 20, 2017)

I learned from a great friend of mine who has been a toolmaker all his life to make the carbide and HSS holders fit your centre height for your 4 way toolpost.  He only has a 4 way on his LeBlond.  All of my 4 way tooling is milled to .590 in height so the tooling is perfectly on center, with no shims.  He also taught me how to grind HSS so when it was resharpened stayed on center.   It is such a pain to shim and reshim - definitely worth the effort!


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## ttabbal (Nov 21, 2017)

Well, I have some HSS and inserted carbide coming. I plan to try both. Knowing me, I'll end up with quite the collection of random tools over time. The lathe comes with a QCTP, but I did see a couple people mention it also including the 4-way toolpost. I might try it too, but the QCTP sounds more like how I do things. 

Hopefully the poor guy swimming the lathe over from China gets here soon, I want to make some chips.


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## markba633csi (Nov 21, 2017)

When you start to miss not getting a package in the mail at least once a week you'll know you're a goner- down the tooling rabbit hole!
Mark


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## Bob Korves (Nov 21, 2017)

markba633csi said:


> When you start to miss not getting a package in the mail at least once a week you'll know you're a goner- down the tooling rabbit hole!
> Mark


When you want to be required to sign for each delivery, then you are really in trouble...


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## SSage (Nov 21, 2017)

I bought the PM 1/8 to 5/8 ultra precision drill chuck for $129 last week and so far so good. But, I haven't used it much yet. First impressions are positive. The PM master kits give a good bang for the buck. I ordered the lathe with the tool holder set up pre-installed, works for me, I'm an insert tool newbie. No complaints on the Precision Matthews tooling. My lathe came with a live center, haven't tried it yet.

I got most of my measuring tools and drill bits off eBay. I picked up American made short machinist drill bits of good quality via auction, just gotta watch for the good deals. I was disappointed in the Shars 8" level I bought recently new, its was defective and would not calibrate. So I had to send it back. Its my first purchase from Shars, I'll see how they handle the return. I have some larger levels of good quality anyway. Most of my tools are Sterrett or Brown & Sharpe, all vintage. So far I like the older stuff best.

Just think about the projects you want to tackle and buy what you need as you go along. I'm mostly turning and facing drill rods right now, but I'll be needing more tooling soon. The drill chuck is my latest addition.


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## ttabbal (Nov 25, 2017)

My lathe comes with an AXA QTCP. I'm thinking about getting some extra holders. There are 2 types, one with a "V" groove in the bottom to be able to hold round tools. Those seem more versatile, but I'm concerned they might be a compromise that's not as good for either. Has anyone used them?


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## JPMacG (Nov 25, 2017)

I have both.  I rarely need the V groove.   I think one tool holder with a V groove would be adequate, but I always need more tool holders for holding square cutters.  I have four and that is not enough.


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## mikey (Nov 25, 2017)

I'm with Jon - get the non-grooved ones.


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## Dabbler (Nov 25, 2017)

I have exactly 1 grooved AXA.  Allm the rest are nongrooved.  Boring bars are best held in the square pinching type that gets tightened by the set screws.   I have the one grooved one for an emergency where I don't have the prefect sized boring bar holder...


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## ttabbal (Nov 25, 2017)

Sounds like the consensus is to stick with the flat kind. I get one grooved one with the lathe, so I'll stick with square for extras for now. Thanks for the reality check!


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## barnett (Nov 25, 2017)

Glenn Brooks said:


> Above all else you will need a decent dial indicator and magnetic base to hold the work properly in your chuck. plus a set of micrometers to accurately measure diameter of your work. Maybe 0-1", 1-2", and 2-3" to start



+1 for sure!


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## Downunder Bob (Nov 25, 2017)

ttabbal said:


> Sounds like the consensus is to stick with the flat kind. I get one grooved one with the lathe, so I'll stick with square for extras for now. Thanks for the reality check!



I think that is good advice. The grooved type are at best a compromise, and you run the risk of a standard tool holder or bar not sitting flat. the general idea is that you can use them for holding round boring bars, but given that most round boring bars have a flat on the bottom, you don't need the groove. 

Also in my opinion for holding boring bars you are better off getting the tool holder with the round hole it is designed to hold boring bars, and by making a set of sleeves you can hold all different sizes of bars, and by being able to rotate them you can set up with pos or neg rake and anything in between.


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