# Some welding I did today



## Charley Davidson (Jun 7, 2012)

Got called into work from where I'm laid off from to do some sample welds and it turned into a few days of welding & hopefully my welds are good enough to land a large contract from a company we have been doing a lot of machine work for.

This is by far the heaviest welding I've ever done, I welded 3 of these and have about 20 more to do, and welded 10 of another 5 piece weldment that I have about 20 more to do. Didn't get pics of the 5 piece one.


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## randyjaco (Jun 7, 2012)

They ought to handle one hell of a load; what ever they are.

Randy


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## burnrider (Jun 7, 2012)

Nice beads, how many years experience?


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## Charley Davidson (Jun 8, 2012)

Self taught & only started 2 years ago, I have a welder, I can weld but I'm not a welder:shush:


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## Old Iron (Jun 8, 2012)

From what I can see this morning it looks pretty good.

Paul


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## Marlorup (Jun 8, 2012)

Those are some good looking welds. Do you have a jig to line everything up, or just use clamps and vice-grips?


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## November X-ray (Jun 8, 2012)

What process were you using? I cannot get the pictures to blow up enough to tell but it appears you are either using flux core wire (FCAW) or perhaps stick electrodes (SMAW) due to the spatter pattern. Have you ever tried welding with 7024 rod? In the event you are welding this with SMAW and since it is flat, the 7024 rod might be a good choice if you have the machine capable of using them. They have 50% iron powder in the flux and although they require quite a bit of amperage, they will lay down beautiful welds with not much effort on your behave, especially for the application shown in your pictures. Just remember that the "2" means it is for only flat and horizontal welding (however I have had success overhead with these before).

Good Luck in obtaining your contract!


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## jumps4 (Jun 8, 2012)

looks nice charley
steve


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## Old Iron (Jun 8, 2012)

And if-n you run the 7024 right the flux will curl up and fall off.

Paul


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## Charley Davidson (Jun 9, 2012)

November X-ray said:


> What process were you using? I cannot get the pictures to blow up enough to tell but it appears you are either using flux core wire (FCAW) or perhaps stick electrodes (SMAW) due to the spatter pattern. Have you ever tried welding with 7024 rod? In the event you are welding this with SMAW and since it is flat, the 7024 rod might be a good choice if you have the machine capable of using them. They have 50% iron powder in the flux and although they require quite a bit of amperage, they will lay down beautiful welds with not much effort on your behave, especially for the application shown in your pictures. Just remember that the "2" means it is for only flat and horizontal welding (however I have had success overhead with these before).
> 
> Good Luck in obtaining your contract!



Don't know what wire I was using but was using 75/25 argon. Don't know why I has so much splatter but it cleaned up pretty good in the tumbler

Here are some close ups of the welds and some pics of the 5 piece weldment, wish I had pics of the ones the other guys did for comparison.


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## November X-ray (Jun 9, 2012)

Charley - would you mind if I sent you a PM with some tips?


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## Charley Davidson (Jun 9, 2012)

November X-ray said:


> Charley - would you mind if I sent you a PM with some tips?



I'd be mad if you didn't:angry:

If it will help others you can post it here. Thanks Charley


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## November X-ray (Jun 9, 2012)

Charley Davidson said:


> I'd be mad if you didn't:angry:
> 
> If it will help others you can post it here. Thanks Charley



Charley - I sent you a PM, but it does not show up in my Sent Box. Let me know if you get it?


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## Charley Davidson (Jun 9, 2012)

Got it, thanks

Couple questions
Splatter? What causes it and how can I eliminate or reduce it?

Ball on end of wire? Too fast wire speed or too little heat? or?

Should I be ashamed of these welds? At least around real welders?


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## November X-ray (Jun 9, 2012)

Charley Davidson said:


> Got it, thanks
> 
> Couple questions
> Splatter? What causes it and how can I eliminate or reduce it?
> ...



Charley - weld spatter is caused by several variables, some of these are oil/foreign substance on the base material, position of electrode relative to the work piece, slope of current (amperage/voltage), and sometimes it just happens no matter what. I suggest try using different positions for the gun and change the amount of stick out.

Ball on the end sounds like you may have to much stick out or perhaps running to cold (low amperage) for the amount of stick out you are using.

Never be ashamed of anything you do but continue to learn all you can and strive to improve your talents everyday! 

Not knowing what machine you are using are any of the particulars about the wire spec, size, amperage and voltage, it is hard to say exactly but I suggest trying different settings and practicing with different techniques such as forehand, backhand, pointed up and different speeds for any given material. The metal in the pictures is certainly heavy enough you could put many amps into it and as long as you are not undercutting the base metal you should be fine!


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## Charley Davidson (Jun 12, 2012)

This is one of todays welds, didn't have time to take anymore. I'll get some more pics after they are tumbled too.


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## November X-ray (Jun 13, 2012)

Charley,

Try slowing down just a tad on your oscillations and use a small circular motion that just overlaps the molten puddle over the frozen puddle as the weld progresses. All in all the weld looks more uniform than the first pictures and it would be way easier for me to show you what I am thinking than to tell you in writing so I hope you understand what I am trying to explain.

Good Luck,

NXr


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## roygpa (Jun 13, 2012)

I hope to be able to make welds like that someday with my Hobart 140 that the wife bought me for Christmas. 

Roy


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## Charley Davidson (Jun 13, 2012)

November X-ray said:


> Charley,
> 
> Try slowing down just a tad on your oscillations and use a small circular motion that just overlaps the molten puddle over the frozen puddle as the weld progresses. All in all the weld looks more uniform than the first pictures and it would be way easier for me to show you what I am thinking than to tell you in writing so I hope you understand what I am trying to explain.
> 
> ...



I'm not swirling as much as I'm going forward then backing up a little then advancing forward repeat.  A guy came down over the weekend and welded a sample (wish I were there) Joey (the owner) said he just went forward and back like that, his weld looked as if were done by a robot. I will take a picture today & post it of his and some more of mine.  Thanks for taking the time to help.  


Roy, You will just takes some practice and guidance. That little Hobart is a pretty nice machine, I almost bought a bigger one a few months back but the guy wanted as much as I could buy a new one for.  I have a Millermatic 140 and love it for it's intended purpose.  I'm assuming yours is a gas version also.  Weld some stuff & show us some pictures and somebody will help you.


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## Charley Davidson (Jun 13, 2012)

Here are some more pics including some of the welder and another guys weld that's been welding his entire life, see if you can guess which one is his :lmao:


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## jumps4 (Jun 13, 2012)

they are looking better charley
did you turn the heat up some because i'm now seeing undercutting at the edge meaning you are cutting into the base metal more now thats good.
steve


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## Charley Davidson (Jun 13, 2012)

Same setting just a little lighter parent metal, plus I slowed down a bit.

Question on settings for a 3 range welder. When you jump up to the next range how much of a change do you need to make in wire feed?   Example: I'm in med. at 4 for wire speed, if I jump to high where should I go with wire feed? Please give me a few scenarios like med. 12 to high ?wire feed?


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## Kennyd (Jun 13, 2012)

Charley Davidson said:


> I'm not swirling as much as I'm going forward then backing up a little then advancing forward repeat.



I am far from an expert weld*or*...but here are a couple of the hooks that I make and sell at www.boltonhooks.com :

Here is one "Hot off the press" so to speak:



Here is one after going over it with a small file to remove splatter, then media blasting, and finally primer'ed:



I use a Milller 210 MIG weld*er* set at 5/75, 75/25 gas at 20 CFH, and Lincoln L56 .030" wire on 33lb spools.  

My technique is to push the weld (only "drag when there is slag"), and weave in a C or half-circle pattern from side-to-side or piece-to-piece to ensure I am melting the puddle into each side, in other words get good penetration on both sides of the weld bead.  One day I will try to get a video...


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## Tony Wells (Jun 13, 2012)

Here's a short clip showing a couple of different movements during MIG. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI3pZxoPRvA


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## jumps4 (Jun 14, 2012)

charley
as far as using a higher setting every welder is different and you want more heat not faster welding. if the feed is to high your putting in too much filler without reaching higher temp and puddle flow, you want flow not buildup. I would try a test piece the same thickness and just a small amount more wire feed on the higher setting and slow down concentrate more time in the center pushing it to the edges it should be a hissing sound and keep your tip back if your cone adjusts on the tip pull it out so about 3/16" of cone sticks out past the tip. if you have burn move the cone out more it will help stop burn back. but keep the cone close to the weld. no one mentioned this but you cannot have fan blowing on the area or be in a windy area if there is wind more gas is required. it's hard to tell someone how to do it and with a mig a good weld has a sound you will learn if it dont sound right it probably is not right. on a higher setting i will start center move left, pause center, move rt ,pause center, move left pause center, move right keeping most of the heat in the center so the weld lays down in the center. more heat time in the center make the puddle more liquid and it flows out to the sides instead of building up in the center. and if thats 1/2" stock make your weld at least 1/2" wide
I would find some thick scrap, I was a gas pipe fitter in the boiler makers union years ago and that means nothing anymore i have to practice before i weld anything. and i dont have the equipment i had then. i make my settings on scrap the same thickness first untill i'm happy then weld the part it saves a lot of grinding lol
i tried reading back if your using .030 or .035 wire you may not be able to move a heat range up using .030 without to much burn back.
I hope that helps
steve


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## jumps4 (Jun 14, 2012)

the two center pics with the red background look pretty good
what i forgot to say was if its a part you can move after jigged and spot welded raise one side so you are welding down in the bottom of a v it helps keep it uniform
steve


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## November X-ray (Jun 14, 2012)

jumps4 said:


> they are looking better charley
> did you turn the heat up some because i'm now seeing undercutting at the edge meaning you are cutting into the base metal more now thats good.
> steve



Just to clarify, you do not mean to insinuate that undercutting is good, Right? Actually undercutting is a very undesirable condition as it creates a stress riser point by reducing the parent metal thickness.


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## November X-ray (Jun 14, 2012)

Charley Davidson said:


> Same setting just a little lighter parent metal, plus I slowed down a bit.



Since it is thinner material, and you are using the same setting, essentially you have increased the joule input. On the thicker sections like the one's in the first pictures, try turning up your amps and increasing the wire feed some. And Practice, Practice and Practice, Remember, Somebody Had to be the Very First Person to Ever Try to Weld!


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## jumps4 (Jun 14, 2012)

my undercut comment was to say he has enough base metal melting that it's not a cold weld just laying on top of that thick metal. my bad wrong term I said i have been out of it too long and i would have to practice my first weld would probably not be as nice as his first weld with my new welder. there were 6 big hobarts dual spoolers in the shop i worked and they all had differences
steve


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## Ed. (Jun 15, 2012)

I am not sure what machine you are using but that metal seems fairly thick and it may be, that you are getting cold welds because your welder may be grossly underpowered, it may not be up to the job for that thickness of steel. For that thickness I trust that you are also beveling the edges to get further penetration. 

With that undercut the arc is melting the edges away but not enough wire feeding it to replace it or your travelling too fast, I am guessing here but it appears that the steel you are using is about 20-25mm thick and if so you would need to use at least 1.2 to 1.6mm wire with probably around the 300-350amps. Can't tell about the majority of your welds as I can't get a good look at them in those images, however the one that stands out is the 2'nd bottom pic in post 11, I would fail that job outright as the weld is cold with no tie in on the toes. Sorry, but to me that weld is not structurally sound. 

To get an idea of tie in have a look at the following images, 2 are in a weaving bead and the other three straight weld bead, apart from the last pic most of these are using 10 and 12mm plate and the last one is of the underneath of a welding table I made using a 25mm top and had to tack a half of an I beam frame (16mm?) to the top so it wasn't an overly big bead, but enough to hold the 2 together, but you should get an idea of tie in, it is where the edge of the weld is fused to the both sides of the metal you are welding, if you don't have enough heat and amps then the bead just sits on top of the metal instead of biting in. 

The other thing you may want to consider is to do multipass beads especially on metal this thick, otherwise you will get a lot of distortion trying to do a big bead in one pass. 

If you do get more of these to do, you may want to look at a better/bigger 3 phase welder. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.


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## jumps4 (Jun 15, 2012)

subcontract to ed :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:
steve


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## xalky (Jun 19, 2012)

Tony Wells said:


> Here's a short clip showing a couple of different movements during MIG.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI3pZxoPRvA


I love this guys welding videos. He's straight and to the point, no BS , no overly technical psycho babble. Tells you what you need to know in plain english. I refer to his videos quite often. 

Charley the welds are looking much better. If you can pump your machine up to get spray transfer and use a 90/10 mix you'll get better penetration. Just watch for warpage. Tack it very well before you start heating the crap out of it.


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