# Trindle super industrial  welder



## Shootymacshootface (Nov 26, 2020)

I just got this welder. It was almost free! I haven't stick welded in years. Its nice to have a backup to my mig welder. It is very basic, not even an on off switch. 
Do these old welders put out ac or dc voltage? I really want to try my hand at welding aluminum with it.


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## MrWhoopee (Nov 26, 2020)

Pretty sure they're AC, just like the basic Lincoln tombstone. Unadorned transformer.


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## Shootymacshootface (Nov 26, 2020)

MrWhoopee said:


> Pretty sure they're AC, just like the basic Lincoln tombstone. Unadorned transformer.


Aww, so that would mean no aluminum with this welder?


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## NortonDommi (Nov 26, 2020)

AC.  Here is a link about it https://app.aws.org/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=8501.    You need special rods for Aluminium and forget about light stuff. Heavy section only.
Nice looking welder though, very handy.


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## markba633csi (Nov 27, 2020)

Looks like ac only even though it says plus/minus- 125 amps max so a pretty light duty machine.  Useful to about 1/4" steel
Run it on 240 volts for best results
-Mark


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## Shootymacshootface (Nov 27, 2020)

240v for sure. It had a dryer plug on it. I already changed it to a welder plug. Just have to test it now.


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## Shootymacshootface (Nov 27, 2020)

I wonder, since this machine has no on/off switch, or any controls whatsoever, if this machine could be left plugged in and be completely inactive until an arc is struck.


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## Lo-Fi (Nov 27, 2020)

You're always going to get some losses in the primary winding even if there's no circuit on the secondary. It'll just burn power for no good reason. Also a bit of a liability should it manage to short itself somehow. 

Pop a voltmeter on the output, it'll soon tell you for sure what the deal is.


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## FOMOGO (Nov 27, 2020)

Just put a disconnect right before the wall plug. Nice little piece of history, Super actually. Mike


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## Shootymacshootface (Jan 8, 2021)

So, I have poking around on the internet, and have discovered that a dc conversion can easily be done by using a bridge rectifier. I just have to make sure that it is rated for my welders output amperage. 
Has anyone done one of these conversions?  And, how does it work? I know that it would improve welding in general, but what of aluminum?


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## ericc (Jan 8, 2021)

For aluminum, you would use those flux covered rods.  They have nasty fumes and sticky flux.  They also are expensive, and you have to have a good touch and some preheat to get them to fuse in well.  I have a bunch, but have never tried them out, since they require DC.  My friend tried them, and he got good results the first time, but he is already good at stick welding steel.


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## G-ManBart (Jan 9, 2021)

Shootymacshootface said:


> So, I have poking around on the internet, and have discovered that a dc conversion can easily be done by using a bridge rectifier. I just have to make sure that it is rated for my welders output amperage.
> Has anyone done one of these conversions?  And, how does it work? I know that it would improve welding in general, but what of aluminum?


Yes, it's possible to stick weld aluminum, but it's not a very precise, controlled process.  After going to the trouble and expense to convert the machine to DC you're still going to get pretty poor results in most cases.  Aluminum presents some unique challenges when you're trying to weld it, and it's hugely different from steel or stainless.


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## Shootymacshootface (Dec 4, 2021)

I actually have a need to weld some aluminum. I let a pump freeze and part of it broke, so I started my DC conversion. Fortunately it's pretty simple. Thats a 200amp rectifier mounted on a big heat sink that I had.
Here's what I got done so far.
I stopped at an Airgas welding store for some aluminum rods and didn't see any so I asked. The guy said that they haven't been able to get any for months. I told him that Tractor Supply has a bunch of Hobart aluminum rod in 3/32 and 1/8 inch. He said that if I was you I would go and get some. Thats good stuff I guess. I bought both sizes and the recommended amperage for both sizes is right in my Trindles range. I hope I welds nice. I hear that it can be a crap shoot.


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## Shootymacshootface (Dec 5, 2021)

The top of the bridge rectifier was not at all strong enough for use of the push in connectors. Just a little tug on a cable, and the lugs would have broken right off. It took me a minute, but now they are rock solid.
Tomorrow we weld aluminum!




Edit. 
Also, if you notice in the first few pictures how wide the lugs were. They were to fill in the entire square mounting area. When I placed them on the rectifier I noticed that they were about .1 apart. Then I said, oh "arc welder". I took .2 off the inside of each lug. It certainly would have been special when I plugged it in.


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## Shootymacshootface (Dec 8, 2021)

I tried to weld some aluminum scraps together tonight. It didn't go very well. It took me forever to find my stainless steel wire brush. My torch ran out of propane while I was preheating the parts. I could only get the temp up to about 200F. The rod did nothing but stick to the parts that I was trying to weld. Frustrating indeed, but towards the end I was starting to see more of an arc and the rod being consumed. So, what I think that I learned is that preheating is mandatory for this to work. I'll get a bottle of mapp gas and do a proper preheat and try again.


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## G-ManBart (Dec 8, 2021)

Shootymacshootface said:


> I tried to weld some aluminum scraps together tonight. It didn't go very well. It took me forever to find my stainless steel wire brush. My torch ran out of propane while I was preheating the parts. I could only get the temp up to about 200F. The rod did nothing but stick to the parts that I was trying to weld. Frustrating indeed, but towards the end I was starting to see more of an arc and the rod being consumed. So, what I think that I learned is that preheating is mandatory for this to work. I'll get a bottle of mapp gas and do a proper preheat and try again.


For non-critical stuff I don't bother with the stainless wire brush...if it looks pretty clean a solid wipe with acetone is more than good enough.

Many people trim a bit of flux off the tip of aluminum stick rods to help getting them started without sticking....even just tapping them on the bench to knock off a touch will help.

Even the guys who have a lot of experience with this method describe it as challenging and only use it when absolutely necessary.


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## Shootymacshootface (Dec 8, 2021)

G-ManBart said:


> For non-critical stuff I don't bother with the stainless wire brush...if it looks pretty clean a solid wipe with acetone is more than good enough.
> 
> Many people trim a bit of flux off the tip of aluminum stick rods to help getting them started without sticking....even just tapping them on the bench to knock off a touch will help.
> 
> Even the guys who have a lot of experience with this method describe it as challenging and only use it when absolutely necessary.


Thank you for the great tips!


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## FOMOGO (Dec 8, 2021)

You could probably buy a DC welder for what it would cost to convert it. Miller thunderbolt buzz box or the like should be around for cheap, as most have moved on to MIG. For aluminum, just get a spool gun for your MIG. They have come way down in price for the Chinese versions, and you will be much happier with the results. I think the one you have, has earned a place as a historical conversation piece. Mike                            
  Didn't see the later posts. Carry on. Mike


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## Shootymacshootface (Dec 8, 2021)

FOMOGO said:


> You could probably buy a DC welder for what it would cost to convert it. Miller thunderbolt buzz box or the like should be around for cheap, as most have moved on to MIG. For aluminum, just get a spool gun for your MIG. They have come way down in price for the Chinese versions, and you will be much happier with the results. I think the one you have, has earned a place as a historical conversation piece. Mike
> Didn't see the later posts. Carry on. Mike


I found a 200A bridge rectifier for about $20, so I have very little into this experiment. I'm trying to ovoid having to get a second gas bottle. I wish there was one gas that would work with both aluminum and steel.


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## woodchucker (Dec 8, 2021)

I always thought AL was an AC process.
I modified my HF flux core with a bridge rectifier, it turned a crappy flux core welder to a much better flux core welder. I also went 200A.
For AL I have been using the hobart brazing rod, just heat to 600-700 and add the rod, its like soldering.


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## addertooth (Dec 8, 2021)

Just remember, Aluminum requires more amps than steel.  You might want to look up the required current for 3/32 rod, when doing aluminum of your desired thickness.  You may discover you are short of the required current, depending upon the thickness of your aluminum.


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## FOMOGO (Dec 8, 2021)

TIG is AC for alum. Mike


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## Shootymacshootface (Dec 8, 2021)

I've been trying to learn as much as possible about  welding aluminum successfully. From what I have learned so far, mig and tig are A/C, stick is D/C. As far as gasses go with mig, the 75/25 argon/co2 mix is ideal for steel. Straight co2 works well enough, but you need more heat and there is more spatter. Straight argon will work for steel, but not very well, way messier than co2. Mig welding aluminum with any amount of co2 in your gas isn't possible (normally). Whats the deal with helium? Isn't that were the term heliarc comes from? Does anyone weld aluminum with helium anymore?
I'm going to TSC to pick up some feed for our birds, and I am going to get a bottle of Mapp gas. With every type of aluminum welding, preheating is always recommended. I think that is where I may find success with this endeavor.

I believe that I was mistaken when I said aluminum tig welding is A/C.


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## ericc (Dec 8, 2021)

Shootymacshootface said:


> I tried to weld some aluminum scraps together tonight. It didn't go very well. It took me forever to find my stainless steel wire brush. My torch ran out of propane while I was preheating the parts. I could only get the temp up to about 200F. The rod did nothing but stick to the parts that I was trying to weld. Frustrating indeed, but towards the end I was starting to see more of an arc and the rod being consumed. So, what I think that I learned is that preheating is mandatory for this to work. I'll get a bottle of mapp gas and do a proper preheat and try again.


There is somebody who made an AC to DC converter for his buzz box welder so he could use DC rods.  I seem to remember that he noted that a choke is necessary.  I'll see if I can dig up the link.  Here it is: http://www.hildstrom.com/projects/ac-225/
Note the comment about stick welding aluminum.  I built something similar.  The choke makes a huge difference.  You don't stand a chance without it.


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## Shootymacshootface (Dec 8, 2021)

ericc said:


> There is somebody who made an AC to DC converter for his buzz box welder so he could use DC rods.  I seem to remember that he noted that a choke is necessary.  I'll see if I can dig up the link.  Here it is: http://www.hildstrom.com/projects/ac-225/
> Note the comment about stick welding aluminum.  I built something similar.  The choke makes a huge difference.  You don't stand a chance without it.


That is a great article!


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## General Zod (Dec 11, 2021)

Shootymacshootface said:


> I've been trying to learn as much as possible about  welding aluminum successfully. From what I have learned so far, mig and tig are A/C, stick is D/C.



Aluminum MIG is done on DCEP, not AC.    The rest of what you have learned is correct though.

You should compare the current price of helium and compare it to argon, ft³ vs ft³.


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## Weldingrod1 (Dec 12, 2021)

DC stick welding needs a choke on the electrode side of rectifier. Makes a huge difference. In AC stick the transformer provides that function...

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Tim9 (Dec 20, 2021)

Shootymacshootface said:


> So, I have poking around on the internet, and have discovered that a dc conversion can easily be done by using a bridge rectifier. I just have to make sure that it is rated for my welders output amperage.
> Has anyone done one of these conversions?  And, how does it work? I know that it would improve welding in general, but what of aluminum?


I looked into converting an old ac welder to dc. But that was probably 15 year ago. It can be done fairly easily but by the time you are finished buying a heavy duty diode board and a fan, I think you’ll be better off just getting a low cost inverter stick welding machine.
    I’m guessing off hand, between the diodes and fan it would cost close to 75.00 to 125.00 just for the parts. Now, that’s just my guess going off my memory of it…. And that was 10 to 15 years ago.
Anyway, it can definitely be done. I just don’t think it’s worth it if you have to buy parts for the conversion to dc.
=====
Anyway, I just noticed you already started the conversion. Good for you. I’ll be curious to see the end results. In any case, please make a cheap plastic enclosure for it so you don’t drop a wrench or something and have a huge short across the rectifier..


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## G-ManBart (Dec 21, 2021)

FOMOGO said:


> TIG is AC for alum. Mike



Not exactly true.  AC is certainly the most common for TIG aluminum, but it is possible to TIG aluminum using DC and there are times when it's the preferred method.  It requires 100% helium, so that is one reason many people don't/can't try it....helium is pretty darned expensive now so few hobbyists have it available.









						Tig Welding Aluminum
					

Video shows 3 main Tips for Tig Welding Aluminum using DCEN



					www.weldingtipsandtricks.com


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