# Simple, flexible garage air supply - 3/4"?



## FlyFishn (Jan 1, 2021)

All, 

I am studying air hoses here and am not having much luck. 

What I wanted to do was use a 3/4" hose from the compressor routed out to the garage door then have a manifold there. I'm thinking a 2-outlet manifold is plenty. The 3/4" diameter is to get more flow than, say, 3/8" or 1/2" = less restriction. 

The snag is I am finding limited options on 3/4" "hose". What I do find, bare hose and not on a reel, is cheap/low quality. 

I have found distribution systems that seem interesting. However, I don't have a need to install a whole "system" with ceiling-mounted pipe that has 10x drops at different machine stations. All I need is a simple single line off the compressor with 2 outlets. 

The RapidAir Maxline system is one example of what I am looking at. They have Fastpipe also - but that is rigid, straight piping + fittings. The Maxline is "semi-flexible" and comes in rolls. 





__





						Shop RapidAir MaxLine Compressed Air Tubing | RapidAir Products
					

MaxLine kits are a great solution for a compressed air piping system in a large garage/shop or a commercial application. MaxLine piping is designed for efficient installation.




					www.rapidairproducts.com
				




It doesn't look like a simple system would be overly expensive. When you add the fittings and manifold, etc, to a "hose" for a distribution system the price goes up anyway. The flexible piping appears to just be another method of doing the same thing, perhaps less flexible but streamlined fittings etc. 

Thoughts? Other ideas?


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## Aukai (Jan 1, 2021)

Will your compressor keep up with a large delivery line, and high output at the terminal end?


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## benmychree (Jan 1, 2021)

I piped my shop downtown and my hole shop(s) with black iron pipe and screwed fittings; simple and relatively cheap.


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## benmychree (Jan 1, 2021)

Aukai said:


> Will your compressor keep up with a large delivery line, and high output at the terminal end?


"Keeping up" is no different than a large tank that nearly all compressors use, the air goes in and the air is used at the other end as needed, it just takes a bit more time to come up to full pressure.


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## WobblyHand (Jan 1, 2021)

Black iron works great for air line distribution.  Easy to get, cheap hangers, everything is readily available, even from a hardware store.  If you thread your own, (and you will need to do that) get a decent set of dies.  I made the mistake of using HF dies. Nearly 90% of the joints leaked.  I got a set of Ridgid pipe dies and guess what?  No more leaks.  The HF dies had inadequate taper, so they didn't seal correctly.  They were closer to straight thread than tapered.  No amount of teflon or pipe dope would seal them. Live and learn...  Doesn't pay to cheap out sometimes.  

I've looked at the MaxLine, looks pretty nice.  If it had been around when I did mine in black iron, I might have gone for it.  The basic kits don't look that expensive.  And you don't have to hand thread and fit pipe, which is good.


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## FlyFishn (Jan 1, 2021)

Dealing with pipe and threading was one of the things I was trying to avoid. Though, I will say I have some ideas for copper plumbing for moisture condensers etc. I am probably going to get a factory after-cooler for my compressor but I have some other ideas. The copper isn't going to be for a distribution run, though - just shorter parts local to the compressor end. With copper I can sweat the fittings - can't say the same for black iron.

Though, my "install" is going to be "temporary". I was hoping to make do with a hose run through the garage floor between the stalls where my current one and electric is run - having a flexible hose is easier to lay and shove around. 

The compression fitting pipe set up like MaxLine should make the layout/install of that system easier - instead of threading pipe just cut, debur, and clean up the edge dimension, then lock a compression fitting on the end (elbow, union, or compression to NPT thread adapter). I'm sure there is a bit of a learning curve to dressing the pipe. I've done RF work with coax cables from RG-174 up to over 1" hardline (LDF4-50A and AVA5-50A mostly of the hardline variants - all compression style fittings there) and I don't think the pipe work will be nearly as intricate.


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## NC Rick (Jan 1, 2021)

I support the idea of a single straight run of iron pipe!  Easy to get cut and threaded at the home store, cheap too.  My reasoning being you can hang it with a little draft back to the tank and the cooling and straightness will do a fantastic job removing moisture from your airline.  After that, go nuts.  I like clear hose with push fittings.  Some places I used copper which is easy to work with if you can solder it.


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## FlyFishn (Jan 1, 2021)

NC Rick said:


> My reasoning being you can hang it with a little draft back to the tank and the cooling and straightness will do a fantastic job removing moisture from your airline.



Wouldn't you want to keep the moisture out of the tank from the get-go = after-cooler to remove moisture post-compression, pre-tank and delivery piping?


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## NC Rick (Jan 1, 2021)

FlyFishn said:


> Wouldn't you want to keep the moisture out of the tank from the get-go = after-cooler to remove moisture post-compression, pre-tank and delivery piping?


The act of compressing air heats it and as it cools in the tank or subsequent lines, the moisture condenses and will accumulate in the tank.  I have a drop line after the tank with a drain valve.  A drop line at the main supply points too.


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## f350ca (Jan 1, 2021)

I went with soldered copper pipe in my shop. Have seen it used in numerous commercial buildings. They probably use the heavier Type L. I went with the garden variety Type M used for water systems. 3/4 Type M annealed which is what you'd have after soldering has a working pressure of 346 psi. 680 in the drawn stage and a burst pressure of 4715 psi. Easy to instal and was cheap.

Greg


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## Flyinfool (Jan 1, 2021)

For long runs the bigger the line the better, you will have less pressure drop at the tool.
I used the 1/2" rubber 50 foot air hose from my compressor out to the garden shed, For the tool I run there is very little loss of power. I got my hose at Harbor freight, they also have the same 1/2 rubber in a 100 foot.

What kind of tools are you planning to be using that you need the flow capabilities of 3/4" ?


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## Liljoebrshooter (Jan 1, 2021)

I don't think copper tubing is cheap now.  
The rapid air systems look pretty good but the fittings are very expensive.   I did my shop with black pipe. 

Joe


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## Liljoebrshooter (Jan 1, 2021)

Just looked at one of the big box stores.  3/4" type M is about $18 for a 10 ft piece.   Darn near $2 a foot now.  Yikes.
3/4" black pipe is $13.50 for 10ft.   Not a huge difference. 
Joe


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## Flyinfool (Jan 1, 2021)

My only concern with the Rapid Air is that the hose and fittings are a proprietary non standard size, When thy discontinue this you will no longer be able to add to or repair your system and have to start over with something else. Using black pipe or a rubber hose with NPT threads on the ends will be good to service forever.

Amazon also has 3/4 rubber air hoses in various lengths if you really need that big.


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## benmychree (Jan 1, 2021)

FlyFishn said:


> Dealing with pipe and threading was one of the things I was trying to avoid. Though, I will say I have some ideas for copper plumbing for moisture condensers etc. I am probably going to get a factory after-cooler for my compressor but I have some other ideas. The copper isn't going to be for a distribution run, though - just shorter parts local to the compressor end. With copper I can sweat the fittings - can't say the same for black iron.
> 
> Though, my "install" is going to be "temporary". I was hoping to make do with a hose run through the garage floor between the stalls where my current one and electric is run - having a flexible hose is easier to lay and shove around.
> 
> The compression fitting pipe set up like MaxLine should make the layout/install of that system easier - instead of threading pipe just cut, debur, and clean up the edge dimension, then lock a compression fitting on the end (elbow, union, or compression to NPT thread adapter). I'm sure there is a bit of a learning curve to dressing the pipe. I've done RF work with coax cables from RG-174 up to over 1" hardline (LDF4-50A and AVA5-50A mostly of the hardline variants - all compression style fittings there) and I don't think the pipe work will be nearly as intricate.


I did not say in my earlier comments that I was given a Toledo pipe threading machine with dies from 1/8 to 2", takes the pain out of pipe threading, also I did the sealing with white lead for both air and steam; come along years later and joints are easily disassembled.


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## Flyinfool (Jan 1, 2021)

I looked it up on a flow calculator.
100 psi
50 feet
1/2" hose

Can handle 33 cfm with less than 5 psi pressure drop.
5 psi is considered that acceptable drop from tank to tool.


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## Dhal22 (Jan 1, 2021)

Don't agree but as a plumber I've seen pvc airlines many times.   That's a cheap option.


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## FlyFishn (Jan 1, 2021)

Flyinfool said:


> What kind of tools are you planning to be using that you need the flow capabilities of 3/4" ?



My big impact is an Aircat Vibrotherm 1778VXL 3/4". I am not sure what the CFM consumption is, but it uses a 1/2" NPT inlet and is spec'd somewhere around 1700ft-lbs torque. Other high-volume tools I have in my arsenal are rotary tools of all sorts - die grinders, right angle sander, cut off wheels, drill. I am not sure how much CFM they consume, but I assume a LOT. 

The compressor is going to be a Saylor-Beall with a 5hp motor and 705 pump (most likely - I am going to check on some numbers with a 7.5hp 3 phase also). It is spec'd at 17.3cfm delivered @ 175psi. I will most certainly get more run time with the rotary tools on the bigger compressor + tank set up than I will with what I have now. Though, I have my doubts that the motor/pump will keep up with the rotary tools. Other than rotary tools and my vacuum pump (AirLift) I don't really need much CFM, but I need pressure - especially for impacts, air ratchets, and air hammers. And pressure at the tool is the name of the game = where the larger size hose/pipe is desired. If you draw any sizable CFM beyond a brad nailer the pressure will tank at the outlet side of the delivery system quickly as the diameters decrease (hose, pipe, adapters, fittings, etc, etc - all narrow restrictions add resistance to the flow). Having a larger supply system will alleviate that pressure drop.

Though pressure at the tool is the target, what drops the pressure is the restriction in the delivery system. Thus, the CFM, or flow, being restricted is the cause of the pressure drop. Sorta like when you start up a high starting load motor (table saw, circular saw, lathe, mill, band saw, air compressor) and the lights in the shop dim - the electrical circuit isn't sized enough to handle the load well, even though you may get by without blowing a circuit breaker. The wiring is the issue - not the breaker/supply. Same thing with the air systems. If the supply is there (pump/motor/tank) yet you have too small of hose and too many restrictions the tool end of the system is going to suffer - and working pressure under load is what the problem is. The correction to it is to increase the volume of the delivery system so there is less restriction - just like the fix for the dimming lights is to increase the wire size to the load(s) so the resistance under load (with current draw) doesn't cause the lights to dim (and the motor to run slower/take longer to spool up).


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## FlyFishn (Jan 1, 2021)

Dhal22 said:


> Don't agree but as a plumber I've seen pvc airlines many times. That's a cheap option.



Conventional PVC and flexible alternatives aren't my cup of tea for pressurized air. 

Cost isn't necessarily the concern. I certainly don't want to find the most expensive thing out there, either. Affordability is important, however I was trying to find something flexible and easy to work with. If I had a lot of drops and a much more complex system then I could see where the cost advantage of black iron would stack up pretty quick with all the bends etc. However, for a simple system with few fittings/adapters it wouldn't be that big of a cost savings. The bigger overall benefit is the ease of set up/install. To that point - I want to think through that a bit as where things will be for now won't be permanent. Things will move around in the future so building that in to the ideas (or at least understanding how to tackle them when they do come up) now is a good thing.


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## matthewsx (Jan 1, 2021)

What about running 1/2" lines in parallel? Seems like you could buy or make a manifold that would allow 2 or 3 lines to hook up at both ends and use cheap air hoses to deliver enough pressure and volume. 

Just an out of the box suggestion that might work and still give flexibility.


John


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## 7milesup (Jan 1, 2021)

Dhal22 said:


> Don't agree but as a plumber I've seen pvc airlines many times.   That's a cheap option.



It is a cheap and a potentially deadly option.  
I would use PEX piping long before PVC.   I believe the Max-Air lines are just like the PEX except they have a layer of aluminum in them.  I ran some for a guy and the Max-Air was very easy to work with.


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## mksj (Jan 1, 2021)

There have been quite a few previous threads on the different options for air systems, I have used the Maxline and went with a 3/4" system with a 5HP compressor running around 18CFM. Line pressure post filters/regulator is kept at 120 PSI. My friend in Tucson went with the FastPipe or RpidAir hard tubing. When I moved, I was able to breakdown the system and reuse it, you can also take it apart and reuse it, but may need to buy some replacement O-Rings. The system has had "0" issues with leaks and was easy to install. The fitting are a bit more expensive, but are not much of a factor if you are doing a smaller shop setup. I purchased one of their kits and a few extra fittings, so probably in total $200 with 100' of tubing that I cut up. My last two systems were cooper, it is no longer economical, and much more time consuming to install. About the only thing I had an issue with on the Maxline is they do not provide enough tubing holders and they are not the most secure, they need to be spaced about every 3-4'. I ended up just using some conduit clamps in key places to make the system more secure.

PVC is a time bomb waiting to happen, in particular at the temperature extremes, not worth ones safety.








						Rapid Air Compressed Air System For Your Shop
					

Has anyone installed one of these systems in their shop?  Pro's Con's?    It's on my radar and I'm thinking of installing one.  Can't decide if I want to go with 3/8 or 1/2 air lines.  The 3/4 is way too big for my needs. What started this, is, needing some 1/4" tubing to connect up a couple of...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## Gaffer (Jan 2, 2021)

mksj said:


> There have been quite a few previous threads on the different options for air systems, I have used the Maxline and went with a 3/4" system with a 5HP compressor running around 18CFM. Line pressure post filters/regulator is kept at 120 PSI. My friend in Tucson went with the FastPipe or RpidAir hard tubing. When I moved, I was able to breakdown the system and reuse it, you can also take it apart and reuse it, but may need to buy some replacement O-Rings. The system has had "0" issues with leaks and was easy to install. The fitting are a bit more expensive, but are not much of a factor if you are doing a smaller shop setup. I purchased one of their kits and a few extra fittings, so probably in total $200 with 100' of tubing that I cut up. My last two systems were cooper, it is no longer economical, and much more time consuming to install. About the only thing I had an issue with on the Maxline is they do not provide enough tubing holders and they are not the most secure, they need to be spaced about every 3-4'. I ended up just using some conduit clamps in key places to make the system more secure.
> 
> PVC is a time bomb waiting to happen, in particular at the temperature extremes, not worth ones safety.
> 
> ...


I have the same system on a 7.5HP 80 gal compressor. Rapidair is an excellent product and makes for a relatively quick and easy install.


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## uncle harry (Jan 2, 2021)

FlyFishn said:


> All,
> 
> I am studying air hoses here and am not having much luck.
> 
> ...



I hooked up to my system with 3/4 inch hydraulic hose. It withstands high pressure and even elevated heat.


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## NC Rick (Jan 2, 2021)

I have witnessed a few PVC fails in airline systems, not pretty.  I run my main line at 170psi.  I would not use PVC.  If everything is perfect it can do it, no argument but when it's not it can be flat out dangerous.


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## Dhal22 (Jan 2, 2021)

Even worse with pvc is I've seen it used in commercial buildings many times.  Again,  not smart.


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## nnam (Jan 2, 2021)

What about 1" 2000 psi sewer jetter hose? I have a bunch and thinking of using them for air hose.


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## Rifleman1384 (Jan 2, 2021)

Just my .02 from experience, I spent 20 year as an automotive tech. We had 6 in ground lifts, double air drops between each lift, aja-lift and several drops in the building room. All of my air tools over the years were rated @90 psi and whatever cfm depending on the tool. From the cheap CP to the Snap On stuff I never ran low on air, we had a 80 gal 2 stage compressor. In my shop at home I have a 80 gal 2 stage black & decker compressor from Sam's. I needed to expand from the garage portion to my shop. I looked at the max air, rapid air, black pipe, cpvc and pvc. Cpvc and pvc are a no go for me, even if you can keep it out of the sun light which will make it brittle any oil that gets in the line from either the compressor or an oiling system will make it brittle from the inside. When it fails you will have tiny shards of shrapnel. I researched a lot and went with pex. 100ft roll from the big box home store was 28.00, you can borrow a crimp tool or buy one. They were 65.00 from the store but I got a wiess crimping tool from amazon for less than half, you can get the pex cutter as well or if you have a pvc cutter that is sharp save a dollars and use that, i got a bag of stainless clamps for a few dollars, you have choices on connectors brass or plastic. I went with brass connectors and brass drops. I got a few 45's to screw into the drops and for convivence and it went well.

FYI the max air, rapid air and pex can be had in a roll, it's not very easy to straighten out if you want it to look nice, Other than having to use more connectors buying the straight pex is really not anymore expensive than the roll, I got the roll and it turned out fine.

If it helps and you want photos just reach out and I'll post some.

Steve


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## Boswell (Jan 2, 2021)

I just finished putting in some Rapidair-fastpipe and while a little pricey was very easy to work with. My second choice was to use PEX. It would not be too hard to build (or buy) a straightener for Pex or Maxline


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## Firstram (Jan 2, 2021)

I have plumbed in 3/4 ball valves with Pullman/Chicago fittings and use standard air compressor hoses to feed a portable manifold. There's 1 regulated outlet and 1 at full tank pressure.

Local rubber and hose place or online for basically $1 a foot.


			https://www.amazon.com/Interstate-Pneumatics-HJ59-100E-Hammer-Yellow/dp/B01IU76OSG/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=3%2F4+air+hose&qid=1609613426&sr=8-8


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## FlyFishn (Jan 2, 2021)

7milesup said:


> I would use PEX piping long before PVC.



That was what I was thinking of when I said "flexible alternatives". None of that is appealing for compressed air.


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## FlyFishn (Jan 2, 2021)

uncle harry said:


> I hooked up to my system with 3/4 inch hydraulic hose. It withstands high pressure and even elevated heat.



Ah now that I didn't think of. That is an "outside the box" thought. I like the direction you went there! That gives me more options to explore. I assume there are ways to get conventional NPT threads on the fittings. I haven't done much in the way of hydraulic plumbing myself, so I am not too familiar with the hoses and pjping, though I am familiar with various valves etc. I suppose they would all have to be tapered threads to seal but it seems to me there are some different couplings out there for hydraulics than "standard" NPT threads.


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## uncle harry (Jan 3, 2021)

FlyFishn said:


> Ah now that I didn't think of. That is an "outside the box" thought. I like the direction you went there! That gives me more options to explore. I assume there are ways to get conventional NPT threads on the fittings. I haven't done much in the way of hydraulic plumbing myself, so I am not too familiar with the hoses and pjping, though I am familiar with various valves etc. I suppose they would all have to be tapered threads to seal but it seems to me there are some different couplings out there for hydraulics than "standard" NPT threads.


Hyd hose is readily available in NPTF (National Pipe Thread Fuel) also called Dryseal.  You might try farm and/or fleet (Trucking etc) type big box stores.


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## FlyFishn (Jan 3, 2021)

uncle harry said:


> Hyd hose is readily available in NPTF (National Pipe Thread Fuel) also called Dryseal.  You might try farm and/or fleet (Trucking etc) type big box stores.


I checked around at Northern Tool, TSC, and the like. They don't have much in 3/4" to choose from - and certainly not 25-50ft of ready-made hose. 

I did work in the ag industry for a long time and one of the places I worked made hoses - bulk reel of hose, spool off what was needed, and crimp the required fittings. I will check around and see if there are places that can still do that. From what I have seen, though, it looks like the hydraulic hose route may end up more expensive than Maxline RapidAir.


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## FlyFishn (Jan 3, 2021)

7milesup said:


> I ran some for a guy and the Max-Air was very easy to work with.


Does the Maxline have any coil memory to it? Or is it rigid enough it holds it shape and can be "formed" without springing back to a coil?


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## Eddyde (Jan 3, 2021)

Having built a couple of air systems here are my thoughts experiences:

Avoid PVC, while you might get away with it never failing, but it can get brittle with low temperatures, UV or chemical exposure.

Don't use rubber air hoses. The first system I rebuilt was done that way, it was in a custom wood shop I ran back in the day. It would periodically blowout at the joints even though the proper sizes ribbed connectors and double hose clamps were used. It appeared over time the oil would work its way into and compromise the joints. Also low spots, sags, in the hose would collect water & oil causing surges that would overwhelm the point of use filter/regulators. That system was replaced with soldered copper pipe which was cheap at the time and worked great. Until the NYC Fire Department issued us a summons for the copper pipe as it would potentially separate in a fire and the compressed air stoke the flames... So the next system was black threaded pipe, it worked well, no issues.

Going forward putting a system in my home shop, I am looking at PEX as it can handle the pressure, is not brittle and is inexpensive. Most of the "Shop air system kits" being sold with "Semi flexible tubing" use PEX-Aluminum-PEX tubing, that is PEX inside and out with a aluminum layer in-between. This type of tubing was originally developed for radiant heating applications, the aluminum is an oxygen barrier (not necessary for compressed air) but lets the tubing hold its shape. You can buy PEX-Al-PEX tubing and fittings at most plumbing supply houses or online, much  cheaper than the kits. But regular PEX should work just fine as well.


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## Gaffer (Jan 3, 2021)

FlyFishn said:


> Does the Maxline have any coil memory to it? Or is it rigid enough it holds it shape and can be "formed" without springing back to a coil?


The Maxline does not have a memory, and it will hold it's shape well. It has a decent corner radius ability without kinking. It is stout aluminum coated with HDPE. If you want to run perfectly straight runs, you'll need to buy or build a roller assembly. I wasn't that picky, and since I had to run under and over headers and other obstacles, it formed it by hand. My line runs along the top of the walls and over the garage doors. (Please ignore the unfinished drywall and the no longer used coax cable I've yet to remove. )


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## NC Rick (Jan 3, 2021)

I read somewhere that the one type of PEX in particular (my poor memory is telling me type "A" with better cross-linking) is a good airline material.  I'll go back it the argument (discussion for consideration?) that metallic tubing provides the important benefit of being straight to not allow moisture pockets and can allow self draining and has better heat transfer.  I HATE water squirting out of my air system and I never have any I can notice after more the 25 years of installation and use.  We use our air at close to "industrial" duty cycle and I have painted a couple cars using catalyzed paints with great results with no additional dryer.  After my main runs I have been using smaller flexible tubing and push on terminal connections with good result.  My main run is 1" pipe with the draft going back to the tank.  I don't want water in my air tools, machines, precision assemblies or even tires.  I'll say that I have rubber swaged hoses in the system that are 25 years or older and have not had a failure.  I do have problems with quick disconnects a d ball valves in the system loosing some air which is frustrating.

obviously there are many possible ways to accomplish shop air, mine may not be the best but it has worked and continues to work.  I find the steel pipe pretty easy to work with.  i do have a pipe die set with a handle but the home stores are fine to cut and thread what you want.


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## Maico72 (Jan 3, 2021)

f350ca said:


> I went with soldered copper pipe in my shop. Have seen it used in numerous commercial buildings. They probably use the heavier Type L. I went with the garden variety Type M used for water systems. 3/4 Type M annealed which is what you'd have after soldering has a working pressure of 346 psi. 680 in the drawn stage and a burst pressure of 4715 psi. Easy to instal and was cheap.
> 
> Greg


I also used 3/4 copper and soldered everything as every threaded joint is a slow leak.  I have my compressor in the basement furnace room on one end of the house and the garage workshop on the main floor on the other end of the house.  Ran all 3/4 copper across the basement ceiling and up to the garage.  I leave my compressor on 24/7 (synthetic oil in pump) and have for over 8 years with it pumping once every 10 hours or so when sitting idle.  System always ready for work in basement shop and garage shop...nothing worse than having to turn on a compressor and wait for the tank to come up to pressure.  I manually drain the tank of accumulated moisture once every couple of days with the 1/4 turn ball valve I installed on the bottom with extending pipe and it drains into floor drain...takes 5 seconds.

Edit:  mea culpa.  It has been so long now that I assumed  and having looked up yesterday in my furnace room, I realized that I used 1/2 copper for everything.  All else in my original post above remains the same and verified.


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## Barncat (Jan 3, 2021)

I like the idea of the hydraulic hose whip as a vibration dampener. I have plumbed a shop with black iron pipe, it was fast and easy. All the fittings are readily available at any hardware store, and the big box stores will cut to length and thread for you. The price has gone up recently, so I think that makes it less attractive compared to the pex-al-pex, especially for any long runs that may have a couple joints between the pipe segments. If I were to do my shop again, I would do the black pipe again, the mice can’t chew through it, and me banging stuff into it doesn’t hurt it.


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## aliva (Jan 6, 2021)

3/4 pex with sharkbite fittings


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## bburns0909 (Jan 13, 2021)

I would suggest you look at Parker Push-Lok Plus multipurpose hose with the push-lok fittings. Extremely easy to use. Very flexible hose with no memory and clamps aren't required on the fittings. This hose is typically marketed for oil use. I used the 801-8 for the main line and branches were 801-6. 

https://ph.parker.com/us/15551/en/push-lok-plus-multipurpose-hose-801


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