# gas mix



## kd4gij (Dec 15, 2017)

What is the best gas mix for mig hobby welding steel


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## bfd (Dec 15, 2017)

I have good luck with co2 bill


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## f350ca (Dec 15, 2017)

Argon / CO2 is the common mix, I use a try mix of Argon / CO2 / Oxygen. Forget the percentage of oxygen 3 or 5 . Gives a much hotter weld with better penetration for heavy sections but impossible to weld less than about 10 guage with it, way too hot.

Greg


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## gr8legs (Dec 15, 2017)

"Best" is a relative term;

Best price/performance would be straight CO2 - but it leaves a lot of spatter - so you need Pam or other vegetable oil to make the spatter easier to remove.

Best quality of weldment may be a toss up between Argon/CO2 and Tri-Mix (Ar/CO2/O2) but the gas mixes are much more expensive per inch of weld than the straight CO2. 

YMMV

Stu


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## Terrywerm (Dec 15, 2017)

I have had very good luck with C25 and have a strong preference for it.  It is 25% CO2, 75% Argon.  It can be used for carbon steel, stainless steel, and coated steels. Spatter drives me nuts, thus my distaste for straight CO2.


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## kd4gij (Dec 15, 2017)

I have been searching around the web and I need to find out just what the welder is I may be getting. It is an old miller But it is up on a high shelf and facing the wall.

  Based on pic from the web it may be a millermatic 200. Looks like this from what I can see.


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## Hukshawn (Dec 15, 2017)

I use 85% argon and 15% co2. Little more expensive than 75/25 but a little less splatter. It’s a fine balance.


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## Ulma Doctor (Dec 16, 2017)

75/25 for steel
tri-mix for stainless


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## roadie33 (Dec 16, 2017)

kd4gij said:


> I have been searching around the web and I need to find out just what the welder is I may be getting. It is an old miller But it is up on a high shelf and facing the wall.
> 
> Based on pic from the web it may be a millermatic 200. Looks like this from what I can see.
> View attachment 249963




That looks just like mine. Mine is a 200 w/SKP. I picked it up at a School Auction for $150. It came with a Bernard gun. Only had to do a few minor things to it and it welds great. I use C25 on mine. Stripped it down, taped off the emblems and primered and painted it, Rustoleum Safety Blue. Very close to stock color.


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## Tony Wells (Dec 16, 2017)

Impossible to tell for sure, not being able to see the front panel, but from the back, it looks identical (like more than a few others I suspect) to my MillerMatic 35s. It has some unique features that are quite useful for thin work, but can be used for heavier materials as well. It's not fancy, other than the sheet metal features. You have to manually change taps on the transformer output to change the output, but the wire feed is enclosed, which helps it stay clean. Overall, I like the machine, but it's not my go-to MIG. That would be the Lincoln CV-300 with a piggyback LN-7 wirefeed. If you can pick that Miller for the right price, go get it. I've burned about 30 rolls of wire in mine and have no complaints.

And for gp welding, I normally use straight CO*2*. The little spatter doesn't usually bother me, but if it does I use Spattershield or hit it with a flapwheel.


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## turnitupper (Dec 16, 2017)

My welder only goes down to about 35A and I had trouble butt welding steel less than 1mm using Ar 83 Co2 5 O2 mix. Tried pure Argon and have less trouble. Whack a roll of Silicone Bronze in and have almost no trouble except for the mig rollers dragging money out of my wallet!. 
Have welded 12mm with the mixed gas 200A. 1.2mm wire in one pass, not pretty but strong???.
John.


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## kd4gij (Dec 16, 2017)

roadie33 said:


> That looks just like mine. Mine is a 200 w/SKP. I picked it up at a School Auction for $150. It came with a Bernard gun. Only had to do a few minor things to it and it welds great. I use C25 on mine. Stripped it down, taped off the emblems and primered and painted it, Rustoleum Safety Blue. Very close to stock color.
> 
> View attachment 249967
> 
> ...




 Does yours do stick weld also?


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## 682bear (Dec 16, 2017)

C25 works well for me on mild steel from 20 ga sheet to 1/2 inch thick...

-Bear


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## roadie33 (Dec 17, 2017)

Don't know if it would do stick weld, but it will weld with a gun. 
I just need to find one that will fit it, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.


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## kd4gij (Dec 17, 2017)

I hope to get it down this weak and find out just what it is. If it works I know I will get it at a good price.


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## gr8legs (Dec 18, 2017)

Regarding stick welding, generally a MIG machine is 'constant voltage' and what you need for stick welding is 'constant current' - so a MIG machine is not too good as a power supply for stick welding. A TIG machine can often be used for stick welding - both are 'constant current' processes. 

There are 'multi-process' machines that can do mig / stick / tig all from one box and some of them do a good job with all processes - but some are compromises all around. I've had best results with 'purpose built' machines for each process - plus if one machine dies you have a backup.

Stu


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## kd4gij (Dec 19, 2017)

Well I got it down and got a good look at it today. But didn't get a chance to try it out. Tomorrow hopefully.  It is a millermatic 200 like Mike's but doesn't have the spot welder.


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## kd4gij (Dec 19, 2017)

There is a spool gun with it now, spoolmatic 3, don't know if I will get that but a quick ?  I know it is for aluminum wire but can it be used with steel wire also?


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## Terrywerm (Dec 22, 2017)

No reason that they can't that I know of. Spool guns are often used where you need long leads in order to reach the work, but you can't push wire that far.


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## kd4gij (Dec 22, 2017)

Well it is a millermatic 200 JE serial number made in 1984. The wire feeder isn't working. And the price is $000.00 Did I pay to much? AN I will pick it up 01/02 when I get back to work. 
Does any one know where I can get a service manual for it? I found the owners manual online at miller.


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## magicniner (Dec 22, 2017)

http://www.esabna.com/euweb/mig_handbook/592mig4_1.htm

Lots of anecdotal info above ignoring that straight CO2 gives best weld penetration for a given power for general steel fabrication and that Anti-Spatter Spray is specifically available to deal with the one small side issue involved ;-)
I follow the guide from the manufacturer of my welding equipment in the link above


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## roadie33 (Dec 24, 2017)

I had the same thing on mine and it was the fuse causing the wire not to feed.
It is a 5 amp standard fuse.
It is on the front right side by the work lamp indicator.


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## kd4gij (Dec 24, 2017)

Thanks. When I get it home I will check that first thing.


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## Weldit (Dec 25, 2017)

f350ca said:


> Argon / CO2 is the common mix, I use a try mix of Argon / CO2 / Oxygen. Forget the percentage of oxygen 3 or 5 . Gives a much hotter weld with better penetration for heavy sections but impossible to weld less than about 10 guage with it, way too hot.
> 
> Greg


We used the tri-mix gas in the structural shop until the last year when the new CWI switched over to argon/co2 90/10. At home I use C25 argon co2. I have a bottle of co2 that I pulled out when I exhausted the bottle of c25.  CO2 is less expensive to buy but it does spatter more so be prepared that it does act a little differently than c25. C25 welds are "prettier". Watch CL for some deals. I bought 1 225cuft bottle and a 1 180cuft bottle for 150 bucks and exchanged them at the LWS. Great price!


Jim


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## Ironken (Jan 5, 2018)

Weldit said:


> We used the tri-mix gas in the structural shop until the last year when the new CWI switched over to argon/co2 90/10. At home I use C25 argon co2. I have a bottle of co2 that I pulled out when I exhausted the bottle of c25.  CO2 is less expensive to buy but it does spatter more so be prepared that it does act a little differently than c25. C25 welds are "prettier". Watch CL for some deals. I bought 1 225cuft bottle and a 1 180cuft bottle for 150 bucks and exchanged them at the LWS. Great price!
> 
> 
> Jim



I'll betcha that we purchased cylinders from the same guy........over in Independance? I've got 4 from him off of CL here in KC.


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## dlane (Jan 5, 2018)

I bought my bottles 30yrs ago in TX ( life time lease they called it ) over the years and moving they got switched with 
Company lease bottles ,in this state they won’t exchange them, they want me to repurchase them. 
Moral of story,  if the ring under where the cap screws on has a company name embossed in it that is a lease bottle according to Airgas in California.


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## Firestopper (Jan 5, 2018)

75/25 for general steel MIG welding, 90/10 using pulse MIG on general steel and argon for most TIG and alum spool gun MIG.


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## roadie33 (Jan 5, 2018)

Ironken said:


> I'll betcha that we purchased cylinders from the same guy........over in Independance? I've got 4 from him off of CL here in KC.


I see his adds on CL also and was wondering how good the "Deals" were. 
If they were actually clean bottles or re-purposed Lease bottles.
Currently I have 1 C25 and 1 Argon lease from Matheson.
I would rather "Own" them than pay a fee every year.


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## Weldit (Jan 5, 2018)

I know the guy you're referring to on CL, but I didn't buy from him. I thought his prices were right about where Matheson is. I did buy them off of CL though but from a guy needing to make some money. Those deals don't come along everyday.

Also, we don't use pulse mig in the shop. We use metalcore wire with 90/10.  Come to think of it I believe we also use it for dual shield as well.


Jim


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## Downwindtracker2 (Jan 5, 2018)

Here in Canada, bottle have to be tested every 10 years, even BBQ propane ones. Buying a "company"  bottle avoids that. My argon is my own where as the mix , oxygen and acetylene are  Air Liquide.  Bottles have serial numbers and I've turned in a large oxygen that my son was given.  I was hoping to swap it out for a small tri mix, chuckle.


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## Weldit (Jan 5, 2018)

I've bought 5 bottles from individuals and exchanged them all at my favorite welding supply


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## gr8legs (Jan 6, 2018)

Similar testing situation down here - but if you own the bottle then the LWS swaps it out for another and charges you for the hydrotest, at least the shops I deal with. Ask first!

Also, when you exchange your bottles be sure they give you a 'customer owned' bottle without a name on the top ring just below the valve, otherwise you've just donated your very $$$$ bottle.

Stu


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## Weldit (Jan 6, 2018)

Well . . . . at Matheson you buy the bottle. Then simply exchange it anywhere you choose. I'm sure that businesses lease them but individuals buy them. That's what they told me.


Jim


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## kd4gij (Jan 7, 2018)

I can get a good deal on gas through my work. They go through a lot of gas. 

Does anyone have a copy of a service manual for a Millermatic 200 1984 model? Black face.


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## Weldit (Jan 7, 2018)

delete


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## Weldit (Jan 7, 2018)

Downwindtracker2 said:


> Here in Canada, bottle have to be tested every 10 years, even BBQ propane ones. Buying a "company"  bottle avoids that. My argon is my own where as the mix , oxygen and acetylene are  Air Liquide.  Bottles have serial numbers and I've turned in a large oxygen that my son was given.  I was hoping to swap it out for a small tri mix, chuckle.


Chuckle . . . what . . . they didn't exchange the bottle?


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## roadie33 (Jan 8, 2018)

I downloaded mine from Miller.


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## roadie33 (Jan 8, 2018)

Just go here and enter Serial Number to get manual.

https://www.millerwelds.com/support/manuals-and-parts


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## brino (Jan 8, 2018)

roadie33 said:


> I downloaded mine from Miller.



I wish I could download my shielding gas, I'll hafta change suppliers! 
-brino


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## Ironken (Jan 8, 2018)

roadie33 said:


> I see his adds on CL also and was wondering how good the "Deals" were.
> If they were actually clean bottles or re-purposed Lease bottles.
> Currently I have 1 C25 and 1 Argon lease from Matheson.
> I would rather "Own" them than pay a fee every year.



I'm in question of the "lease" thing too. I swapped the cylinders out once I emptied them at Lampton in NKC. The rings all said Matheson on them.


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## Ironken (Jan 8, 2018)

Weldit said:


> I know the guy you're referring to on CL, but I didn't buy from him. I thought his prices were right about where Matheson is. I did buy them off of CL though but from a guy needing to make some money. Those deals don't come along everyday.
> 
> Also, we don't use pulse mig in the shop. We use metalcore wire with 90/10.  Come to think of it I believe we also use it for dual shield as well.
> 
> ...



I likes some "I need the money" deals on CL!

No pulse MIG here either (maybe some day I will have a pulse machine and a big boy shop like Firestopper.......you can put me in your will! Firestopper). I run 90/10 and Fabcor 86r metal core wire and love it........like butter and little spatter.


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## kd4gij (Jan 8, 2018)

roadie33 said:


> Just go here and enter Serial Number to get manual.
> 
> https://www.millerwelds.com/support/manuals-and-parts





  I did download the owners manual. I am looking for a Service manual, as the wire feeder motor isn't running.


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## roadie33 (Jan 8, 2018)

The manual has troubleshooting starting at page 26.
It is usually the fuse on the front.


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## kd4gij (Jan 8, 2018)

Well the fuse is good.  Is it ok to leave the positive lead on the front unplugged while testing the wire feeder so the gun won't be hot?
Here it is. It is a 1984 model


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## kd4gij (Jan 9, 2018)

how do I identify old wire? It is Gulf Wire corp. #5366   It was in  a spoolmatic 1 old spool gun. I thought it was aluminum but it is as stiff as the steel wire. Could it be SS?

I found it. the # is 5356 witch is aluminum.


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## rwm (Jan 9, 2018)

I'm still trying to figure out why residential properties are not piped for argon just like they are for natural gas???? I guess eventually argon will come over Ethernet Cat 8 cable.
Robert


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## roadie33 (Jan 9, 2018)

Yes, the gun has to be inserted to check the wire feed motor is working. Make sure the gun trigger plug is inserted all the way.
If the fuse is good, and the last person that used it, had used a gun, then it may be the Line disconnect switch is off.
If that is not it it might be the gun switch itself.


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## kd4gij (Jan 10, 2018)

Ok I believe that the welder was used with a spoolmatic 1 as the is the only thing that was with it. I found a GA20C gun in another location.  
Where is the line disconnect switch? 
I was asking if I can leave the HI LOW voltage cable unplugged and the wire feeder work? I am not trying to load wire at this time as the gun is clogged or the liner is kinked. I can only push wire half way through, from either end. So it will need a new liner.


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## kd4gij (Jan 10, 2018)

Disregard my last post. I rotated the speed control knob and the wire feeder is alive. Now I need to get a liner for the gun and see if it will weld.


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## roadie33 (Jan 10, 2018)

Great. It won't be long now and you'll be welding up a storm with it.


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## kd4gij (Jan 10, 2018)

I took the liner out and blew it out with compressed air put it back in and the wire went through.  Have to get some cable and make a ground lead. Is 1/0 big enough or should I get 2/0 cable?


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## roadie33 (Jan 10, 2018)

I've used this on several welders and have had no problems. Long enough to reach about anywhere I need.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WELDING-CA...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

Solder one of these on each end and you're good to go.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Selterm-Ba...hash=item3d3e723165:m:mSJuNvgbfm-XACDWrXSy_iw


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## kd4gij (Jan 11, 2018)

I can't use lugs. The millermatic 200 uses twist lock connectors on the welder end. And clamp  the wire goes inside. I found 1/0 cable at work for free. So I will use it for now.


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## kd4gij (Jan 11, 2018)

Well it is alive and well. I don't have any shielding gas yet but We ran a couple of beads with it. The first project will be welding on a big mud truck out side. So I will probably pick up some flux core for that.


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## roadie33 (Jan 12, 2018)

Flux-core with shielding gas would be good for welding heavy steel.


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## dlane (Jan 12, 2018)

Flux and gas ? . Never tried that,  works good a


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## kd4gij (Jan 12, 2018)

I need to replace the gas line from the valve to the feeder. What type of hose does it need to be?


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## brino (Jan 12, 2018)

dlane said:


> Flux and gas ? . Never tried that, works good a



Often called "dual shield", see:
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/dual-shield-flux-core.html
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/dual-shield-flux-core2.html

There was another good video with his buddy JD doing large pipe joints with dual shield....still looking for it.

-brino

EDIT here's the pipe welding:


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## roadie33 (Jan 13, 2018)

I used it to weld frames on trucks.
Also  welded a 1/4" steel plate to the inside about 1/2" smaller than inside channel.
While the weld cooled I'd take a air hammer and work over the area of the welds to keep it from being brittle.
One old timer told me it helped move the molecules back in place because the heat chases them away.  Don't know if he was right but never had a frame break after. The trucks were used out on the farm hauling hay across terraces which caused a lot of twisting.


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## Weldit (Jan 14, 2018)

roadie33 said:


> Flux-core with shielding gas would be good for welding heavy steel.


Gasless flux core wire IS NOT TO BE USED WITH GAS!
Lincoln specifically stated that their innershield NR-211 was designed to not be used with shielding gas. 
As for the manufactures of other flux core wires . . . . how different are they than Lincoln innershield?
I too tried it once and the weld bead was beautiful. Then I found the statement from Lincoln. I never did it again.
Jus' say'n!


Jim


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## kd4gij (Jan 21, 2018)

Well I took the covers off to clean it up and paint the covers. looks pretty good inside.


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## kd4gij (Feb 7, 2018)

Ok next question. What size tank does co2 come in? And what size for some one that doesn't do a lot of welding?


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## Ironken (Feb 8, 2018)

kd4gij said:


> Ok next question. What size tank does co2 come in? And what size for some one that doesn't do a lot of welding?



As far as I know, there are: 2.5,5,10,20 and 50# cylinders. From that point, the larger vessels are dewars. Buy the biggest cylinder you can afford and be done with it.

If your machine was running CO2 before and you still have the flow gauge, you should be good to go. If not, don't forget that the CO2 cylinders require a female coupling (CGA -320 if I remember right).

CO2 has its place and is even called out in certain wps but, I personally prefer Ar mixes (c10, c25). Ar mixes are less prone to burn through on thinner steel, generally create less spatter and can be used to spray with if >80% Ar.


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## cg285 (Feb 8, 2018)

kd4gij said:


> Well it is a millermatic 200 JE serial number made in 1984. The wire feeder isn't working. And the price is $000.00 Did I pay to much? AN I will pick it up 01/02 when I get back to work.
> Does any one know where I can get a service manual for it? I found the owners manual online at miller.



one of my machines is a miller 200 bought new in 1985, w/spool gun, and 'ive had zero issues with it. mine only came with the 3 owners' manuals


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## RandyM (Feb 8, 2018)

kd4gij said:


> Ok next question. What size tank does co2 come in? And what size for some one that doesn't do a lot of welding?



Be careful on buying too small of a cylinder. I had a medium size that I went to exchange, well apparently that size was not a high quantity cylinder and they were out of them and would have had to wait and make a separate trip. So now, I have up graded to the more popular size.

I like you, do not do "a lot" of welding. It can be many years before I need a refill. Now, it is going to be many, many more years before an exchange.


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## kd4gij (Feb 8, 2018)

I am thinking 20lb I can get that through a beverage company a lot cheaper. 

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk


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## dlane (Feb 8, 2018)

120cf 75/25 for my mig, 300cf for tig , o/a 180cf both tanks.  Is what I run , if you buy “lifetime lease “ tanks the ring under the cap threads should not have anything embossed on it,


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## kd4gij (Mar 14, 2018)

Not having any luck finding a tank for a good price around here. But most of my welding projects are out side in the wind. Picked up a roll of  lincoln innershield nr-211-mp. And the welder is working great.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Mar 15, 2018)

When you buy a bottle, remember you are the one who has to put it in and take it out of your truck or car. Big bottles are very heavy.

Weldit, naw, they just took it back. I guess it was a leased. Anyway, it was out of the back yard. It's moot point now, I bought a TIG/stick. I won't have to get a tri-mix bottle for MIGing stainless.


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## Buffalo21 (Mar 15, 2018)

I’ve alway leased, I have about 10 bottles (2 of 90/10, 2 of 75/25, argon, tri-mix for SS, helium, argon/helium, oxy/ace, nitrogen and possibly a few others), at my bottle lease rates, I can lease go about 30-35yrs, before I hit bottle cost.

Owned bottles on re-fill, you drop them off about a week later, its ready for pick up, they also will not fill any owned bottle larger than 120 cf.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Mar 15, 2018)

When first leased couple of bottles, O/A , it was $60 a for the pair. Which I thought wasn't bad.  Then I moved up North, it was still $60, then $120, then $120 each. At that stage I gave up. I move south and 3o years later, I broke down and purchased company labeled battles. I wheel in and exchange. There is no retest fees either. I have one plain painted one, and it takes less than a hour to fill.

Around here the pay back is less than 3 years.


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## kd4gij (Mar 15, 2018)

Downwindtracker2 said:


> When you buy a bottle, remember you are the one who has to put it in and take it out of your truck or car. Big bottles are very heavy..





   That is why I am locking for 60cf bottle for c25 or a 20lb co2 bottle.


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## f350ca (Mar 15, 2018)

$100 a year here to lease. TSC has a deal through Praxair, you sort of buy the bottle, more like pay a deposit, about 3 year payout as well, but you can take them back and get your money back. Sweet deal. 80 cu ft is the largest they carry though.
I now have their oxygen, acetylene, argon and argon/co2. So for about a $1200 deposit I save $400 a year

Greg


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## kd4gij (Mar 15, 2018)

No TSC near me.


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