# Biax scraper blade question



## Sdmf5150 (Sep 1, 2018)

I got a great deal on a newer biax 7elm from a friend that never ended up using it. It came with no blades. My question is is the 130 indexable blade holder considered flexible like the 25-150 brazed on blade? Seems like it would be more economical to use the indexable setup. Looking for a good starter blade setup.


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## Cadillac (Sep 1, 2018)

I use sandvik ones they work very well.


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## benmychree (Sep 1, 2018)

Rich King recommends the brazed on cutters because of the increased flexibility of that setup; there are many resharpenings with them, and the inserts are not cheap either.


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## Bob Korves (Sep 1, 2018)

My 7el came with quite a few blades, every style except for the indexable one, in various lengths and widths.  It also came with an extra long and stiff shop made blade.  All of the blades are useful, in my experience, for various kinds of scraping jobs.  It is also not really difficult to make blades for Biax scrapers, brazed or indexable, any length you want, whatever flexibility you want.  The Biax blades are fairly expensive unless you find a good deal on used ones or make blades yourself.  They do last for a good long time, however, with care.


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## Bob Korves (Sep 1, 2018)

Richard King, who is on this this forum as a business member, sells Biax blades.  See what Rich can do for you.


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## Sdmf5150 (Sep 1, 2018)

Bob Korves said:


> Richard King, who is on this this forum as a business member, sells Biax blades.  See what Rich can do for you.


Absolutely  I would definitely like to see what Mr.King recommends


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## Bob Korves (Sep 1, 2018)

Sdmf5150 said:


> Absolutely  I would definitely like to see what Mr.King recommends


Here is where to find him on H-M:
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/members/richard-king.37181/
Here is his web site, which has his phone number and other contact information:
http://www.handscraping.com/


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## Richard King 2 (Sep 2, 2018)

Thanks everyone.  Yes I tell students to buy blades that have the brazed carbide tips.  30-150 for roughing, 20-150 for finish and 15-150  for small narrow ways ground to a 90 mm , 60 mm & 40 mm radius.  The Sanvik blades are cheap on Ebay and if you buy  or make a 6" clamp blade holder.,  If you use the clamp in insert and thin the holder, you can sharpen the insert on 4 sides R90, R60, R 40 and R20.  I am not a big fan of flater then a 90R.  By the way the Sanvik Inserts are sold with a 150 R on 2 sides.  I contacted Sanvik Poland who makes those inserts and they say they grind them flat because they have no clue what your going to use the blades on.

I would recommend you thin the center of the 130M 6" holder say 4" in the center approx .015" per side.  This makes the blade holder more flexible.   The blade holder is made out of cold roll and the 150 series blade are made out of tool steel.  So you can't thin it to the same thickness because it will bend.  There are several You Tube shows  under Richard king Scraping - showing the blades I like, maybe a few with the clamp holder too.  Keith Rucker has a few.

You can go to DAPRA dot com and under BIAX Scraper and then blades you can see holder 130M.  If you want to buy something call Ed Dyjak - ED Dyjak Co.  in Milford MI.  He is an old friend and sells all things scraping.  Be sure to tell him your heard from me.  Or he will try to get you to buy a Anderson Hand scraper which I do not recommend.   Rich


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## Sdmf5150 (Sep 2, 2018)

Richard King 2 said:


> Thanks everyone.  Yes I tell students to buy blades that have the brazed carbide tips.  30-150 for roughing, 20-150 for finish and 15-150  for small narrow ways ground to a 90 mm , 60 mm & 40 mm radius.  The Sanvik blades are cheap on Ebay and if you buy  or make a 6" clamp blade holder.,  If you use the clamp in insert and thin the holder, you can sharpen the insert on 4 sides R90, R60, R 40 and R20.  I am not a big fan of flater then a 90R.  By the way the Sanvik Inserts are sold with a 150 R on 2 sides.  I contacted Sanvik Poland who makes those inserts and they say they grind them flat because they have no clue what your going to use the blades on.
> 
> I would recommend you thin the center of the 130M 6" holder say 4" in the center approx .015" per side.  This makes the blade holder more flexible.   The blade holder is made out of cold roll and the 150 series blade are made out of tool steel.  So you can't thin it to the same thickness because it will bend.  There are several You Tube shows  under Richard king Scraping - showing the blades I like, maybe a few with the clamp holder too.  Keith Rucker has a few.
> 
> You can go to DAPRA dot com and under BIAX Scraper and then blades you can see holder 130M.  If you want to buy something call Ed Dyjak - ED Dyjak Co.  in Milford MI.  He is an old friend and sells all things scraping.  Be sure to tell him your heard from me.  Or he will try to get you to buy a Anderson Hand scraper which I do not recommend.   Rich



Thank you for your help! Dapra is actually only about 20 min away from me here in CT, but I will contact Dyjak since you recommend him.


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## Richard King 2 (Sep 2, 2018)

DAPRA doesn't sell direct unless you set up an account first with a $200.00 minimum.  They were trying to change it, so it might be worth a call, 800 243 3344 or 860 242 8539.  You might not get a lot of response as they are setting up a Large booth at IMTS show.  That's why I recommended ED who is a 1 man company who sells and repairs scraper.  Ed has a similar story as mine.  His Dad was a service tech for Pratt & Whitney in Michigan rebuilding Jig Bores in all the auto industry plants.  When Ed's Dad, Ed SR.  retired from P&W he he opened his company selling scraping tools and became DAPRA's largest rep in the USA.  Ed can demo scrape as he never apprenticed under his Dad and is a great salesman plus he can repair BIAX scrapers blind folded.  He doesn't have a minimum and accepts credit cards.   I can sell the BIAX tools, but I prefer to just sell my classes and straight-edges, not have to monk around with a 10% commission on a $14.00 bottle of ink, etc. 

Biax scrapers are DAPRA's smallest line even thought the original owner helped invent the scraper.   They are big into Engraving be it lasers or pin punch.  They also sell work holding and metal removal.    One more thing about handscrapers.  I said I didn't like Anderson scrapers.  I started scraping when I was a little kid 55 or so  years ago and back then it was a the only American made scraper unless you made a home made one.  They originally had HSS  and I spent as much time hand lapping them as I did use scraping with them.  Then we started to buy their carbide blades and they were a pain to sharpen as diamond wheels in the 1960's were expensive and we didn't own one.  We sharpened them at customers shops and back then no one had fine diamond like 1200 grit. 

Then in the late 60's we bought a Sanvik scraper and not until the early 70's we bought a 300 grit diamond wheel for our Baldor double sided tilt table Grinder.  I cut and added a thin extention in the handle of the Sanvik handle.  I used a Sanvik until the middle 80's when I started to teach the scraping classes and became a DAPRA rep and their USA BIAX Instructor.   I called Anderson new owner a few years ago and told him he needed to make a longer handle for their 1" handle.  He blew me off.  So if you own one slide the blade out as far as it will go or add an extension to the file handle or wend in a longer handle.  Same goes for the Sanvik or mill the center a bit thinner.  Tom Lipton did a great You Tube recently about scraping, scrapers, 3 points, the ink, etc.  He dis the YT after we met and he attended one of my recent CA classes.

The key to fine scraping by hand or power is a flexible blade.  You know scraping isn't a hobby for me.  I was paid to scrape as a profession, I learned to scrape from a Journeyman Machine Rebuilder (my dad)  who had experimented with all sorts of hand scrapers and we bought our first Power scraper in the early 1970's.  Used those stiff blade holders and 1 x 1 carbide inserts to rough scrape and we finished by hand scraping.  Then in the early 1980's we stated to thin those blade holders and began buying the 150 series blades.   

I have perfected the classes I teach so you can learn to WAY scrape be it by hand or BIAX power and I teach you the best way I have perfected over my 55 plus years of scraping.   I also teach you all the basic tricks of the trade I have used and what my Dad taught me.  Over the years DAPRA and BIAX discovered my abilities and hired me to teach people to scrape using their tools.  I have had an amazing career teaching 3 years time over 20 years in Taiwan, taught dozens iof not hundreds of classes here in the USA for GM, Cumins, Timken, USA bases, etc. etc.   I want to teach you and help the machine tool industry better.  I saw my award in the forum pictures the other day.  The award the Taiwanese Machine Tool industry gave me as I am called the Grandfather of scraping in Taiwan.  Before my classes there machines coming from Taiwan were called "disposable" because the scraping was so lousy and the machines wore up years before the other parts of the machine.       Oh and if you want to sell the power scraper, I am interested.      Rich


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## Sdmf5150 (Sep 2, 2018)

Richard King 2 said:


> DAPRA doesn't sell direct unless you set up an account first with a $200.00 minimum.  They were trying to change it, so it might be worth a call, 800 243 3344 or 860 242 8539.  You might not get a lot of response as they are setting up a Large booth at IMTS show.  That's why I recommended ED who is a 1 man company who sells and repairs scraper.  Ed has a similar story as mine.  His Dad was a service tech for Pratt & Whitney in Michigan rebuilding Jig Bores in all the auto industry plants.  When Ed's Dad, Ed SR.  retired from P&W he he opened his company selling scraping tools and became DAPRA's largest rep in the USA.  Ed can demo scrape as he never apprenticed under his Dad and is a great salesman plus he can repair BIAX scrapers blind folded.  He doesn't have a minimum and accepts credit cards.   I can sell the BIAX tools, but I prefer to just sell my classes and straight-edges, not have to monk around with a 10% commission on a $14.00 bottle of ink, etc.
> 
> Biax scrapers are DAPRA's smallest line even thought the original owner helped invent the scraper.   They are big into Engraving be it lasers or pin punch.  They also sell work holding and metal removal.    One more thing about handscrapers.  I said I didn't like Anderson scrapers.  I started scraping when I was a little kid 55 or so  years ago and back then it was a the only American made scraper unless you made a home made one.  They originally had HSS  and I spent as much time hand lapping them as I did use scraping with them.  Then we started to buy their carbide blades and they were a pain to sharpen as diamond wheels in the 1960's were expensive and we didn't own one.  We sharpened them at customers shops and back then no one had fine diamond like 1200 grit.
> 
> ...


Yes I saw Tom Liptons slide hammer type scraper prototype he made for the very fine points and how he mentioned the Aqua Wash ink. One day soon  I want to take your class as your knowledge is priceless as far as I'm concerned


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## Boxster9 (Sep 2, 2018)

Last month, I purchased a hand scraper and three blades for a Biax machine from DAPRA.  I guess they are selling to the public because I have no special account with them.

Rich-thanks for the Scraping Class in Petaluma, a short drive from home and a wealth of information from Richard and Alex.


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## Richard King 2 (Nov 17, 2018)

DAPRA has changed there sales directive as of September 2018.  They will now sell small orders to anyone with-out opening an account as long as you pay with a credit card. 
If anyone has a BIAX Scraper and would like to trade it in on a new one  I will consider that and deduct that value from the new machine price.


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