# Prices on eBay Lately



## projectnut (Nov 27, 2020)

Over the past few months I've been researching and purchasing the tooling necessary to complete a few PM Research models I purchased earlier this year.  The plan is to acquire everything necessary now, and and commence working on them when the snow flies.  To that end I have been purchasing smaller number drills, taps, and dies.  I now have some of all the sizes needed, but still go to places like eBay and Craigslist to see if more are available.

I can't believe how high the prices have risen in the last couple months.  In early October I purchased packages (10 to 12 per pkg depending on the manufacturer) of 0-80, 1-72, 2-56, 3-48, 4-40, and 5-40 taps.  The highest per piece price was $2.60 for the 0-80 taps.  These are not cheap Chinese taps, but brands like Morse, WIDA, Butterfield, and Pratt & Whitney.  I just did another check on eBay for several of the sizes, and was shocked at the asking prices.  Most were in the $10.00 to $12.00 range for a single 0-80 or 1-72 tap.  Some asking prices were as high as $43.00 per unit.  These weren't place holder prices for out of stock inventory, but rather for off the shelf in stock supplies.

Most vendors are asking the same or higher prices than premium industrial suppliers.  The big difference is no guarantee they're new, and no return if not as advertised.  I don't mind paying McMaster prices IF I can be assured they are the actual brand advertised, NEW, and can be returned if not as advertised.  This is not the case however with the majority of the vendors.

Is it just that it's near Christmas time and vendors are raising their prices, or have things gone somewhat off the rails as far as valuation and demand?  Is anyone else experiencing similar price increases on other items?


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## Cadillac (Nov 27, 2020)

McMaster would be name brand products no junk.


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## projectnut (Nov 27, 2020)

Cadillac said:


> McMaster would be name brand products no junk.



I agree.  I'm wondering why eBay vendors think they can ask the same or higher prices than premium vendors like McMaster.  McMaster only carries quality items, and stands behind them should there be problems.  The high buck eBay vendors aren't offering the same quality merchandise, or willing to stand behind their product.   Who is willing to pay a premium price for unknown quality, and no recourse after the purchase?


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## markba633csi (Nov 27, 2020)

Maybe the pandemic effect too?
-M


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## C-Bag (Nov 27, 2020)

Because eBay is so piecemeal and harder and harder to figure out who you’re dealing with it’s hard to ascribe a trend. But it’s not what it used to be for sure. Buyer beware is bigger and more to the front than ever.

Bottom line is they may make noise like no returns but it’s BS. What they fear most is negative feedback and will do anything not to get it. You also have remediation through eBay. And also have protection from PayPal and most credit cards. if it’s not as described, it’s fraud and you are not without recourse. I first ran into this when I bought an audio mixer that this guy described as “like new” and was no return. When I got it there were several channels not working and it had obviously been used in a club setting where it got beer spilled on it. The seller first tried that “as is“ crap on me and I went for remediation and it came out the owner owed the seller $$ and game him the mixer for the debt. Not my problem, and he took it back and refunded me. Since then I’ve trotted out the bad feedback and the seller was not happy but took their scam back. It is a PIA, but so is losing $$. This isn’t all the time, only a couple of times.

Most outfits also have the “make offer” button. Most times it works for me because it feels like it’s all about whatever the traffic will bare. If you want to pay list, they’ll take it, if not they’ll deal with you on the side where it’s not out in public view.


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## Shootymacshootface (Nov 27, 2020)

markba633csi said:


> Maybe the pandemic effect too?
> -M


I agree with Mark. The pandemic has stressed the entire supply chain.


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## middle.road (Nov 27, 2020)

'As is' 'No Returns' is usually false.
eBay normally sides with the buyer.
The Wife was selling the screens off of laptops that I was salvaging.
First one out of the chute the buyer claimed it was cracked and broken. (It wasn't...)
He broke it trying to remove the panel out of the bezel. The clown actual sent pictures that showed the screen fine in the first two pictures, then on the third picture you could see scratch marks from him trying to pry the bezel and the panel was cracked.
Even with the photos eBay sided with him.
Honey took down the rest of the screens she had listed. . .


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## DavidR8 (Nov 27, 2020)

On a related note why do some sellers offer the “Make an offer” option when they really aren’t interested in accepting offers unless they are within a dollar or so of list price?
Edit: to be clear I make offers that are usually 10-15% off asking. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## extropic (Nov 27, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> On a related note why do some sellers offer the “Make an offer” option when they really aren’t interested in accepting offers unless they are within a dollar or so of list price?
> Edit: to be clear I make offers that are usually 10-15% off asking.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I'm not a seller and have asked the same question.
The most constructive reason I've come up with is to collect data.
That is, if a seller receives many '50% off' offers, maybe the asking price is too high.
Another common pursuit is to catch an unwise buyer.
I can't help but wonder when I find an item where a four pack is more than twice the cost of a two pack???


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## pdentrem (Nov 27, 2020)

Originally eBay was a great place to find to odd and obscure but now it is just a dumping ground of knock offs and junk. Gave it a shove a few years ago.
Pierre


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## Suzuki4evr (Nov 27, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> On a related note why do some sellers offer the “Make an offer” option when they really aren’t interested in accepting offers unless they are within a dollar or so of list price?
> Edit: to be clear I make offers that are usually 10-15% off asking.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think this "Make an offer" is total BS,because like you said,it's almost never more than a dollar they are willing to accept. Total BS.


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## Superburban (Nov 27, 2020)

Many have screwed themselves with the make an offer. If I see it, I woill make an offer, even if I would have paid the full price, usually 5 to 20%. But when they come back with 1 to 2% off, I will not even pay the asking price. If you do not intend to bargain, do not put the make offer.


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## Tim9 (Nov 27, 2020)

I think there’s also a 15% premium paid to EBay for the sellers. Might even be closer to 20% now.

   Ebay definitely isn’t what it once was.


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## Suzuki4evr (Nov 27, 2020)

Superburban said:


> Many have screwed themselves with the make an offer. If I see it, I woill make an offer, even if I would have paid the full price, usually 5 to 20%. But when they come back with 1 to 2% off, I will not even pay the asking price. If you do not intend to bargain, do not put the make offer.


I fully agree.


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## C-Bag (Nov 27, 2020)

Superburban said:


> Many have screwed themselves with the make an offer. If I see it, I woill make an offer, even if I would have paid the full price, usually 5 to 20%. But when they come back with 1 to 2% off, I will not even pay the asking price. If you do not intend to bargain, do not put the make offer.


being the kind that’s not into haggling the only time I’ve used the make offer is when somebody has something I really need and can’t get anywhere else and something is way out of whack. I’m really tired of these folks who have a bargain price and the shipping is outrageous. As if the process isn’t complicated already..........


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## Bi11Hudson (Nov 27, 2020)

Just a few minutes ago, I made a comment to another fellow that falls directly into the thread here. I quote what I just wrote:

There are many variables regarding the pricing, several of which get into my "political perspectives" so I can't really go into them here. I'm a "radical liberterian" for lack of a better description. When I went to sea in the late '60s, a pack of Camels was $0.13, 13 cents. My income never rose as fast or as far as that pack of cigarettes.

The value of your pulleys falls into the same catagory. The best analogy I have found is by Rob't Heinlein where he compares prices then and now to a loaf of bread. That is the bottom line, something to eat. In my childhood, that loaf of bread was 12 cents at the grocery. That was then. . . By the time I had enlisted, it was up to near 20 cents. A different location, granted. But "used" bread at the day old store was 10 cents a loaf so we got by.

I could preach for hours on the subject, so I best leave now. Just remember, the eBay seller is a salesman at heart. They're out to make a profit, from their perspective. The true value of what they sell is irrelevent to them.

.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 27, 2020)

Suzuki4evr said:


> I think this "Make an offer" is total BS,because like you said,it's almost never more than a dollar they are willing to accept. Total BS.


That said the seller of my rotary table accepted my 20% offer straight away. So who knows.


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## C-Bag (Nov 27, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> That said the seller of my rotary table accepted my 20% offer straight away. So who knows.


LOL, you are on a roll!


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## mmcmdl (Nov 27, 2020)

I would rather sell privately thru websites and yard sales but I have used the bay in the past . Nowadays , I'm concentrating on more specialty tools such as drills , taps , end mills etc and it's not worth the 20% Ebay and PP take out of the deal . For the small stuff , if it doesn't sell , I'll either re-pack it away , bury it in the back yard , or scrap it . I sell quite a bit of stuff on Craigslist and do most of my purchases there . People who are buying and selling can see the actual part and set the price ……………………..most of the time over a cold beverage .


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## C-Bag (Nov 27, 2020)

Bi11Hudson said:


> Just remember, the eBay seller is a salesman at heart. They're out to make a profit, from their perspective. The true value of what they sell is irrelevent to them.


It sux to get old and not to have lost your memory of what something cost before things went haywire in the 70’s. When the stock market and GDP were no longer tied to wages of those of us who worked with our hands. 

The most galling aspect of the used stuff is how opportunistic it is. I’m seeing HF stuff being passed off as “vintage”. These folks who are buying stuff at yard sales then selling it sometimes for as much or greater than new.

My old boss said something to a guy who was complaining about the cost of the gas out on the islands. He said “I’m not trying to make a living, I’m trying to make a killing”. Needless the guy had no reply.


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## Nogoingback (Nov 27, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> That said the seller of my rotary table accepted my 20% offer straight away. So who knows.



If the listing says make an offer, I always make one, and I always pay less as a result.  What's not to like?


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## Bi11Hudson (Nov 27, 2020)

Whenever I see the "best offer", I plug in some value appropriate to the situation. If time permits, I may make the offer and then come back later and pay the asking price if it's something I really want. Others I just pay asking price when I *need *it. I'm running about 1:4 or 1:5. 20-25% acceptance. As a rule, I keep the "loaf of bread" in mind when this takes place.

.


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## BGHansen (Nov 27, 2020)

Tim9 said:


> I think there’s also a 15% premium paid to EBay for the sellers. Might even be closer to 20% now.
> 
> Ebay definitely isn’t what it once was.


I sell a fair amount of stuff on eBay. They charge me a flat 10% sellers fee. PayPal gets another 3% on top of that.

Bruce


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## Superburban (Nov 27, 2020)

I asked one seller why he had such a high shipping price,(was like $42, or so), for an item that will fit in a medium flat rate box. His answer was to buy the item, then ask for him to ship it the cheapest why possible. Like yea, I will close a deal, with the hopes that you may be nice to me and lower the price later.


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## Masterjuggler (Nov 27, 2020)

I find that I have MUCH more success with best offers when I include a few words in the comments section about why their product isn't worth as much as the listed price lol.


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## addertooth (Nov 27, 2020)

markba633csi said:


> Maybe the pandemic effect too?
> -M





Shootymacshootface said:


> I agree with Mark. The pandemic has stressed the entire supply chain.



I agree with both MarkBa633csi and ShootyMacShootFace. 

With longer times to ship from overseas, this has caused a shortage in the market of tools/parts.  For many people, when they cannot get the less-expensive Chinese products, they then compete for higher end parts and tools.   Add to this, more people are exploring at-home activities, often in crafts.  Demand has likely ratcheted up measurably.  With the shifts in "supply" and also "demand", increased prices were almost a foregone conclusion. Some bigger ticket items (like dividing tables with chucks) have stayed relatively flat, but then, there isn't a huge line of people clamoring to purchase items like that.

We have a third complicating factor, as many resellers and wholesalers are having trouble predicting demand after January 20th of 2021.  Some are not as ambitious with the quantities they have recently been ordering; they want to get a better feel about how the winds will be blowing for the next 6 months.  I don't expect these markets to stabilize until mid-summer 2021. 

It is certainly not just the Machining market that is chaotic right now.  My wife asked me to consider purchasing a gun.  There are a lot of empty shelves (both ammo and guns) in the shops these days.  Even online shops are largely wiped out of inventory.  Our problem in machining supply is simply emblematic of many industries these days.


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## Shootymacshootface (Nov 27, 2020)

I am a competitive shooter professionally and a heavy equipment mechanic as a hobby. I may have mixed something up there. Reloading supplies are extremely hard to get right now. I hope that I don't have to go back to casting bullets again, oh, then there is the primer shortage. 
Heavy equipment and truck parts are spotty. I usually have good luck getting common things, like brake and suspension parts. I have also struggled to get some very common things as well.
Right now, I am waiting for a part for a road grader. The manufacturer has to make one. When I placed my order 3 weeks ago, I was told that if I didn't order it soon, then I wouldn't be able to get it until next year because they were shutting down. 

The reality is that they could charge us whatever they want for almost everything and we would eventually give in and buy it, except for us machinist types. We could make almost anything if motivated enough


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## llamatrails (Nov 27, 2020)

As far as Make an Offer, I recently listed an item on eBay for a Buy It Now price only.  After a few days, eBay started nagging me to update my listing and lower the price.  Then, they enabled the Make an Offer option without my enabling it.  At least they sent me an email afterwards, but I immediately logged in and disabled it.  So, eBay is pushing vendors to do whatever it takes to move items for eBay's benefit.  Are we surprised ?


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## mmcmdl (Nov 27, 2020)

llamatrails said:


> Are we surprised ?



Of course not , they want their $$$$$$ in a hurry . I generally list stuff 20% less than most of the identical items listed on Ebay , and they usually sell pretty quickly . I find it funny where people expect to purchase top quality USA tooling for half the price of the Chinese crap . I shoot them down in a hurry . 

Trouble with all these sites is , when selling a tool for a buck or two , it'a minimum $8 to ship it . Can't get away from it . It only pays someone to purchase large quantities of small change items and absorb the shipping costs between them . 

If I put them out at yard sales or CL or FB , there's no shipping costs , and the buyer is holding it in his own hands when making an offer . 

I had a boring / facing head sell on the bay for .99 cents one time because of an Ebay fu . I had to fight them to cancel the item .


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## 7milesup (Nov 27, 2020)

"After a few days, eBay started nagging me to update my listing and lower the price.  Then, they enabled the Make an Offer option without my enabling it."
^^^I have never heard of that happening^^^  There is a an automatic lowering the price option that may be check and you need to uncheck it.  I have sold a fair amount of items on eBay and that is definitely and option that you can choose.  I have never had eBay purposely change it. I currently have 15 or 20 items for sale.

As far as making an offer, it works both ways.  As a seller, I have my "Make an Offer" items set to automatically accept an offer defined as a certain amount, and automatically reject an offer if it is way too low.  I recently "sold" a 16 port Ethernet switch.  I had it listed for $185.  The guy made an offer, which my automatic settings accepted.  A day went by with no payment.  Two days, then three then four days without payment.  I don't get too excited about stuff but I sent him a message about non payment, including an invoice.  His response was that he was trying to pay but couldn't because there was a glitch and PayPal wouldn't take his money (yeah right).  Finally, after 8 or so days I filed a non-payment complaint with eBay so at least I could get my sellers fees refunded.  Yes, we get charged sellers fees if the item sells but the buyer doesn't pay.  He sent me another BS message about he couldn't get PayPal to take his money. He then asked me if I had relisted it, which I had and forwarded the item ID to him.  My guess is he thought he could shoot a low offer and I wouldn't take it.  When my settings took it, he was probably going "oh crap, I don't have the money for that".
Another dude made an offer for a Trumpf laser part that I have.  I am about 99% sure he is from India.  I don't ship to India.  He sent me some crap message about he will take it if it is good shape or new, blah blah.  Like he is doing me a favor by taking it off my hands.  I ignored him.  Later, I get another offer from a different eBay user, but I think it was actually the same guy.  My gut told me it was the same dude.  Ship to Poland now.  Both eBay users had 0 for a feedback score and both had just signed up for an eBay account.

So, as an eBay seller, there are quite a few scammers out there, and it seems to be getting worse.  I have never had an eBay purchase go bad on me yet though.


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## 7milesup (Nov 27, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> If I put them out at yard sales or CL or FB , there's no shipping costs , and the buyer is holding it in his own hands when making an offer .



I have pretty much given up on Craigslist.  The number of scammers is unreal.  As soon as I put something on CL I get a text message about them sending me a code to "see if I am real".  So tired of that BS.  Sometimes I will start texting them back and having a little fun with them if I am bored.  Things like "you want me to ship that snow blower to LA, sure I can do that.  Give me your credit card info and shipping address"  That usually shuts them up.
I believe too that nearly all the spam calls I get now ( a few every day) are the results of CL over the years.


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## Masterjuggler (Nov 27, 2020)

7milesup said:


> So, as an eBay seller, there are quite a few scammers out there, and it seems to be getting worse.  I have never had an eBay purchase go bad on me yet though.


I've definitely had some ebay purchases go through buyer protection. Just recently I won a 3 phase motor for practically nothing, payed the guy, and he never shipped and wouldn't respond to messages.

I bought a "jacobs ball bearing super chuck" a few weeks ago that ended up being a regular 6A, so I put in for a refund. I was never sent a return label so I sent a message asking if he wanted me to return it, and he quite rudely told me to keep it, obviously upset that I wasn't dumb enough to think it was a super chuck.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 27, 2020)

7milesup said:


> I have pretty much given up on Craigslist. The number of scammers is unreal.



Check out the number of Kubota ads in the Baltimore region !   I don't even bother looking anymore . Seems like all these girls/women are selling their late uncle's tractor for 993.87 . Just send your Email address and we'll hook you up !


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## Suzuki4evr (Nov 28, 2020)

Masterjuggler said:


> I find that I have MUCH more success with best offers whenz I include a few words in the comments section about why their product isn't worth as much as the listed price lol.


And this works  ?


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## Suzuki4evr (Nov 28, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> That said the seller of my rotary table accepted my 20% offer straight away. So who knows.


That said the seller of my live center also accepted my offer of 20% less immediately and then cancelled my order after I paid, thus paying bank fees. Reason.....something about the factory sending them wrong stock or some lame@$$ answer like that.


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## C-Bag (Nov 28, 2020)

I love these threads because I learn of the myriad of possible ways to be scammed. But almost every time for some reason one of my long range search’s finally hits. I’ve been on a search for a batch of steel tube big enough and cheap enough to cover the projects I’ve been wanting to do. And yesterday I hit paydirt. This popped up and CL about 45 min south of here. 51 pieces of assorted tube around 800# for $300. It’s rusted, but in this case that’s no problem.


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## Janderso (Nov 28, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> I would rather sell privately thru websites and yard sales but I have used the bay in the past . Nowadays , I'm concentrating on more specialty tools such as drills , taps , end mills etc and it's not worth the 20% Ebay and PP take out of the deal . For the small stuff , if it doesn't sell , I'll either re-pack it away , bury it in the back yard , or scrap it . I sell quite a bit of stuff on Craigslist and do most of my purchases there . People who are buying and selling can see the actual part and set the price ……………………..most of the time over a cold beverage .


What else you got buried in the back yard?


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## Barncat (Nov 28, 2020)

BGHansen said:


> I sell a fair amount of stuff on eBay. They charge me a flat 10% sellers fee. PayPal gets another 3% on top of that.
> 
> Bruce


How the heck did you get it down to 10%? Mine is 13% plus the 2.75% managed payments fee. As a seller, what some other people have said about the make an offer is true. A couple of years ago, eBay just decided to add it to all of my listings. Also, eBay will do promos where I can list something without paying an insertion fee, as long as it has make an offer option. I don’t mind having it on my listings, since only about half of people actually use it, and usually the offer is realistic. I also may not accept an offer if I just put the item on there in the last week or two, and instead wait a little to see if I can sell it for more locally or for a higher best offer later. In regards to the original intent of the thread about prices, yes, some are ridiculous. But if you check sold items, sometimes people actually buy things for crazy high prices, so it is worth it to someone.


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## Aaron_W (Nov 28, 2020)

I've noticed lately that when I put an item on my watch list, it has been common to have some sellers offer me a reduced price, many only like 5% but some significantly lower. The ones to reduce their price substantially have done pretty well getting me to buy it, but that is often because their initial asking price was more than I thought it was worth.


I'm also finding ebay is all about making it easier for them. If bots can handle 99% of the work, great.

I tried to buy a book a while back, the seller had 0 feedback, but it was a good price on a book I was having trouble finding and it wasn't a lot of money ($20 at most) so I the 0 feedback issue wasn't a concern. It also looked like the seller might have been the author of the book (it was a niche fire apparatus book). 

I did my paypal, and nothing happened, the seller never even accepted the money. Probably 2 weeks go by, and paypal cancels the transaction because the seller never responded. I opened a report with ebay, with the intent of letting them know that I think that is a dead account, thinking they might want to look into it and save other people the hassle of trying to buy from a seller who is absent. Never got a human response, and once I marked that I got my money back ebay automatically closed the case. Complete waste of my time trying to help them weed out an unresponsive seller.

The other one I've found is shipping. Recently I've had it happen twice, I'm buying multiple items from a seller who says they combine shipping. I put the items in my cart, and click ask seller to update shipping costs. Ebay immediately replies that the seller does not combine shipping. Well the first time I put back everything except the two items I really wanted (had about 10 picked out). The prices were good but I wasn't going to pay $5 shipping on $6-10 items that could all be fit in the same package. The next day seller refunded the excess shipping. I went back a few days later and bought the rest of the stuff I wanted, same deal, seller refunded the excess shipping.
Easy enough to assume the seller checked the wrong box, except I had it happen with a different seller as well. 
Ebay doesn't like the buyer and seller talking, so I'm wondering if this is just one more thing where they have decided to get rid of the feature. I don't see where a seller benefits from having to to a partial refund on every transaction and it likely causes a loss of sales when people like me decide it isn't worth the price to ship. If he hadn't had the brochure for 1958 Dodge trucks (I own one) which is not easy to find for a decent price I would never have found out he really does combine shipping, like he says he does.


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## Grinderman (Nov 28, 2020)

Why do some sites like Shars sell things cheaper on eBay than on their site? I was looking at some carbide inserts the other day and they were the same price on eBay and their site but offered free shipping on eBay and $12 to ship from their site.Doesn't make sense to me with eBay fees.


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## Superburban (Nov 28, 2020)

Grinderman said:


> Why do some sites like Shars sell things cheaper on eBay than on their site? I was looking at some carbide inserts the other day and they were the same price on eBay and their site but offered free shipping on eBay and $12 to ship from their site.Doesn't make sense to me with eBay fees.


That is something I encountered a lot, and still wonder. One would think they could do it cheaper on their own website.


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## Aaron_W (Nov 28, 2020)

Grinderman said:


> Why do some sites like Shars sell things cheaper on eBay than on their site? I was looking at some carbide inserts the other day and they were the same price on eBay and their site but offered free shipping on eBay and $12 to ship from their site.Doesn't make sense to me with eBay fees.



I don't deal with Shars much because of their shipping costs, but I've found a few of the Sothern California dealers who also sell on eBay actually have slightly better prices at their own shop, and still offer free shipping over a certain price point.


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## 7milesup (Nov 28, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> I've noticed lately that when I put an item on my watch list, it has been common to have some sellers offer me a reduced price, many only like 5% but some significantly lower.



This is a relatively new function to eBay.  As a seller, I get notices that "x" number of people have viewed my items and it asks if I would like to send them an offer with my choosing of the percentage off the price.  Sometimes I do it, depending on how bad I want to get rid of the item.

I have a note on all my listings that I combine shipping.  Just last week I had some guy buy four bottoming taps from me.  Instead of waiting for me to invoice him, he just paid for shipping x 4.   I refunded the difference just because I am a nice guy.  Not a peep from him.  No thank you... nothing.  Should have kept his money.


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## Superburban (Nov 28, 2020)

7milesup said:


> I refunded the difference just because I am a nice guy.  Not a peep from him.  No thank you... nothing.  Should have kept his money.


Did you leave a note? He could have thought the refund was automatic. Or may not even know you did it, Paypal is not the best at notifications.


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## 7milesup (Nov 28, 2020)

Superburban said:


> Did you leave a note? He could have thought the refund was automatic. Or may not even know you did it, Paypal is not the best at notifications.


Yes, I did include a note.


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## Aaron_W (Nov 28, 2020)

7milesup said:


> This is a relatively new function to eBay.  As a seller, I get notices that "x" number of people have viewed my items and it asks if I would like to send them an offer with my choosing of the percentage off the price.  Sometimes I do it, depending on how bad I want to get rid of the item.
> 
> I have a note on all my listings that I combine shipping.  Just last week I had some guy buy four bottoming taps from me.  Instead of waiting for me to invoice him, he just paid for shipping x 4.   I refunded the difference just because I am a nice guy.  Not a peep from him.  No thank you... nothing.  Should have kept his money.



That explains the offers, and some of the stuff I buy on eBay is pretty esoteric, old firefighting manuals and such so in some cases I may be the only one who has watched the item in several re-listings and they probably just want it gone. 

I always look for combined shipping when I am buying multiple items, and am used to using the cart and then asking for an updated price. Twice now with two different sellers I have received a notice from ebay that the seller has declined combined shipping, when it is stated right in their ad that they do it, and then they are refunding my money for the excess shipping without my asking them to. 
This is only within the past 6 weeks, never had that happen before. Possible I got two different sellers who have accidently or intentionally done this, and it has not taken me asking them a second time after purchasing. I wonder if refunding excess shipping somehow gives paypal an extra little cut. Always looking for eBay's angle on things they do. It just seems like it is not in the sellers interest to operate this way. eBay of course does not provide a way for me to tell the seller after the fact that their settings prevented me from asking up front for a changed shipping cost.


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## projectnut (Nov 28, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> On a related note why do some sellers offer the “Make an offer” option when they really aren’t interested in accepting offers unless they are within a dollar or so of list price?
> Edit: *to be clear I make offers that are usually 10-15% off asking.*
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I always make an offer if the seller gives the option.  The percentage I offer is usually a function of the retail price of the same item.  If the seller is asking retail or near retail I usually offer 25% to 30% less.  About half the time they accept, other times they make a counter offer.  Occasionally someone thinks their product is worth the retail price and just plain refuses the offer.  

Last year I was looking for some 14" blades for my Racine power hacksaw.  There were several listings with prices all over the place.  I saw one listing for Starrett blades with a "OBO" option, but the seller was asking about half again the price McMaster and MSC were asking for the same blades.  I made an offer of the exact same amount I could buy them from either of the industrial suppliers and got flamed for my efforts.  I was told the price I was offering was an insult.  I responded with links to both the vendors listings and the prices they were asking.  Again I was flamed and accused of trying to rip him off.  The blades were withdrawn, but I kept the vendors name and occasionally did a search to see if they would be listed again.  About 4 months later they did appear at an even higher asking price, but with no "OBO" option.  The listing remained on the active for another 3 months, and was finally withdrawn. 

 For some reason some vendors think these blades are worth more than their weight in gold.  Other vendors treat them as obsolete tooling and sell them at a fraction of their original retail prices.  In all I was able to purchase over 60 blades for my saw.  They range from 3 tpi to 14tpi, and are all major name brands.  About half came from eBay at about $3.00 per unit.  The other half came from members of another board.  They ranged in price from $1.00 per blade to $2.50 per blade depending on the TPI.  The people there were just getting rid of what they saw as obsolete stock they would never use, taking up valuable shelf space.  

I have found the best eBay sellers for machine tools and tooling are companies that specialize in buying out businesses that are downsizing, upgrading, or closing.  They also tend to buy overstock and obsolete stock from tool vendors as well.  They buy at discounted prices, have no emotional connection to the tools or tooling, and sell at a margin that generates them a profit, but is still far below retail.


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## 7milesup (Nov 28, 2020)

projectnut said:


> I have found the best eBay sellers for machine tools and tooling are companies that specialize in buying out businesses that are downsizing, upgrading, or closing.  They also tend to buy overstock and obsolete stock from tool vendors as well.  They buy at discounted prices, have no emotional connection to the tools or tooling, and sell at a margin that generates them a profit, but is still far below retail.



That would be me      Only exception is that I am small time and don't buy out businesses.


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 28, 2020)

Having both bought and sold items on ebay, i have found out that people are mostly bastards with bastard filling.
Ebay itself is not much better.
Don’t get me on the subject of PAYPAL.

Due to Ebay’s fees, to make any money, you need to sell the products at near double the ”fair” price.
The customer is increasingly entitled and make ridiculously low ball offers and get pushed out of shape when the paltry offer is denied.
The buyers rarely actually read the description and ask the stupidest questions that were already answered in the description.
Luckily I don’t depend on ebay for income, It allows that i don’t usually discount an item , i just deny the offer until it sells for the price i have set.
I rarely try to haggle with sellers, knowing what i know now.
If i do place an offer, their offer price was too far out of whack.
Most of the time I avoid unrealistic sellers, who think they are selling gold encrusted diamonds.

for all those who complain about Ebay sellers, try selling on Ebay and report your  findings.
I guarantee you, your view would change


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## projectnut (Nov 29, 2020)

Before I purchase anything, be it online or in a brick and mortar store I research the quality and price.  In the case of machines and tooling I check with local industrial suppliers, online retailers, and local surplus stores.  In most cases the surplus stores are asking in the neighborhood of 50% of new.  
The caveats being: 
You already know the item is used, and therefore will probably not last as long as a new item under the same working conditions.
There are likely to be cosmetic problems
There will be no support in the form of replacement parts 
In almost all cases items are purchased  in "as is" condition

It's up to the buyer to determine whether a used tool or tooling will meet their requirements.  If it does then they have to also have to decide whether the difference in the asking price is worth taking the chance.  Are you willing to pay full retail for a known tool, of known quality, from a known vendor, or would you rather take a chance on a used tool of unknown quality from an unknown vendor for a fraction of the price of a new one?

I have no doubt that eBay is hard to deal with, however what passes as a "fair" price in one area of the country doesn't necessarily pass as the same thing in another area. With the wide variation in availability of machine tools and tooling across the country there are bound to be differences in the interpretation of what constitutes a "fair" price.  Here in the Midwest tools and tooling are still somewhat plentiful.  As such the prices are somewhat lower than those in areas where they are more scarce.  The average asking price for a used Bridgeport style mill is in the $2,500.00 range from most used equipment dealers.  A 13" name brand lathe is in the same general price range.  On the other hand I see asking prices of over $7,000.00 for for the same equipment from other areas of the country.  When I see prices like that I have to ask myself, does the seller have an emotional attachment to the machine, have they done their research as to what the machine is actually worth, are the prices actually that high in the sellers area, or did they just pay to much?

When you're dealing with a sales model that spans the country you have to realize not everyone is willing to pay the same price for the same tool or piece of equipment.  What passes as a "fair" price in one area looks to be outrageous and bordering on criminal in another.


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## C-Bag (Nov 29, 2020)

Unless it’s tooling that I need quickly, I do my research based on price and how close it is. But it pays to be a casual shopper and as bad as the net can be it’s an amazing tool. I do have dealers that I’ve dealt with that I usually check first, most times unless they are out of stock I usually give them my biz as I want them to stick around. It has been valuable to me to see behind the scenes through HM members who sell on eBay how tough it can be. Most of my dealers have been responsive and good to deal with. But not being a haggler I’m not trying all the time to squeeze them for the last penny. If it’s fair and fair shipping I’m happy. And I have thanked those that have consolidated shipping and given me a refund. But I know there are bastards full of bastard filling out there and super grateful I don’t have to deal with them.  

It is always timely when a post like this that a trend seems to be forming. I was in the local Michael’s because SWMBO needed a thimble. Rite Aid, nor the hardware store carried them or even little emergency kits. Michael’s had this rack with hooks for 15-20 but there was only two thimbles on them. Neither were the all metal thimble I was used to. one leather stitched “coin thimble” and the other was silicone and metal. Paid $25 for the two. Tried not to dwell too much on paying like a buck for one in the bygone old days. But I asked a clerk what’s the deal, she said it’s the trade war with China. They can’t hardly order them. Maybe time to fire up the long still metal presses if they have not been scrapped?


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## ThinWoodsman (Nov 29, 2020)

Er... coudn't you have made a thimble in the time it took to check all those stores? 

That is a pretty ridiculous thing for an industrialized nation to be short of, though.


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## C-Bag (Nov 29, 2020)

ThinWoodsman said:


> Er... coudn't you have made a thimble in the time it took to check all those stores?


LOL, good question. Never made one before. I used to do leather work and I couldn’t have sewn up one like the coin thimble. The other silicone one turned out to be very handy because the silicone really gripped the needle when poked through so made hand stitching my leather apron easy.


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## projectnut (Nov 29, 2020)

ThinWoodsman said:


> Er... coudn't you have made a thimble in the time it took to check all those stores?
> 
> That is a pretty ridiculous thing for an industrialized nation to be short of, though.


We're not so industrialized as we once were.  Back in the 1970's we as consumers found that imported goods were often less expensive than those made in the US.  As a result we started on an import binge.  By the 80's and into the 90's we found even the larger capitol goods like refrigerators, ranges, washers, and dryers were less expensive if built overseas and imported.  As a result of this of manufacturing in the US has declined.  We lost over 5,000,000 jobs and nearly 20,000 manufacturing companies between 1980 and 2020.  We once produced over 28% of the worlds consumer goods, but have fallen to 16.5% in recent years.

While a number of things are still made in this country most of the less expensive items are made overseas.  The cheap $1.00 thimble is an example.  With the lower labor rates and minimal labor and environmental regulations in other countries we can't compete in those arenas.


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## Nogoingback (Nov 29, 2020)

projectnut said:


> While a number of things are still made in this country most of the less expensive items are made overseas.  The cheap $1.00 thimble is an example.  With the lower labor rates and minimal labor and environmental regulations in other countries we can't compete in those arenas.



All true.  If it were just a question if cheap stuff like thimbles the impact would be small, but this also applies to
expensive stuff with good profit margins: Apple has huge margins but they build their stuff in China anyway.
A fundamental problem is that American business culture discourages investing for the long term.  Everyone wants 
quick and easy profits because that's what the stock market demands.


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## Aaron_W (Nov 29, 2020)

projectnut said:


> Before I purchase anything, be it online or in a brick and mortar store I research the quality and price.  In the case of machines and tooling I check with local industrial suppliers, online retailers, and local surplus stores.  In most cases the surplus stores are asking in the neighborhood of 50% of new.
> The caveats being:
> You already know the item is used, and therefore will probably not last as long as a new item under the same working conditions.
> There are likely to be cosmetic problems
> ...



What you are buying plays into this as well. I like old books, but unless they are truly a "collectible" like a 1st edition Necronomicon   there are no price guides for most so I think most sellers take a guess. This is why we see things like used machinery books for $10 and $150 for the same book, the seller is just guessing. The first seller just wants to move it (probably paid $1 ea for batch of 100 books), the second seller is clearing out grandpas garage and thinks hey the book is 50 years old, it must be collectable so worth some money.


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## C-Bag (Nov 29, 2020)

I went back and found the packages the thimbles came in and both were made in Japan! No wonder they were so nice but expensive. I can’t remember the last time I saw something made in Japan. There is an amazing YouTube series on Japan with I don’t know how many episodes and one of them is about the small shops manufacturing all kinds of products. One is these little 80yrd men metal spinning plates and cups and bowls. All in these little cramped ancient shops with owners and their kids and apprentices all just punching out stuff. There was another where they were modern buildings where the ground floors were all manufacturing shops with apartments on the upper floors. ive always dreamed of finding a warehouse I could work and live in for my cottage industry and the other day I saw a thing on CL in Bremerton WA what they called condo warehouses. It was not clear if they were zoned residential industrial and the whole thing was just a shell.

But if you read any history we have gone through these cycles many times where we left ourselves dependent on other countries and it came back to bite us big time. One of the more infamous was when they scrapped the Chicago L train and sold all the steel to Japan only to have them turn around and build their war machine of WWII with it. Now the outsourcing wave is coming back home but this time it will be ALL automated with even more job loss. There are niches to be filled by us cottage industry guys just gotta be flexible and smart. Making thimbles for $14 a pop might not be as stupid as it used to sound.


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## Aaron_W (Nov 29, 2020)

C-Bag said:


> ive always dreamed of finding a warehouse I could work and live in for my cottage industry and the other day I saw a thing on CL in Bremerton WA what they called condo warehouses. It was not clear if they were zoned residential industrial and the whole thing was just a shell.



I worked as a lifeguard one summer and the park manager, lived in an old warehouse. 
That was a long time ago, but I bet it was at least 50x100, and probably bigger. It was at least 20 feet high at the walls, with a peaked roof. 
He had an indoor parking area by the large roll up door, and had his living area set up in one of the corners at the far end. Older single guy (big surprise, as he lived in a warehouse  ) so that was basically just a "living room", and a kitchen at the ground level, his bedroom was a loft above the kitchen.

The rest of the place was for his hobbies. I know he thought of himself as an artist of some sort. I didn't know him very well, as he was "the boss", not my direct supervisor so I only dealt with him a few times when at work. At the end of the summer he invited all the park employees to a party at his house, so it wasn't the kind of thing where I could explore and see what kinds of stuff he had in there.

That was a thing in Oakland in the 1990s, lots of empty industrial buildings were being sold relatively cheap and used for "artist's lofts". I thought it was a pretty neat idea, lots of room to live in and lots of room to play. The downside most were in pretty crummy areas, so the inside parking was a definite must. A few guard dogs roaming inside would also probably be prudent.


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## Superburban (Nov 29, 2020)

Youtuber Oxtoolco lives above his shop.


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## C-Bag (Nov 29, 2020)

Superburban said:


> Youtuber Oxtoolco lives above his shop.


Yup, he’s kinda like Barbie, that #$&@* has everything! My dream setup fer sure.


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## Superburban (Nov 30, 2020)

If it was just me and the Wife, I would have considered a place that had a small living area above the shop. Would not have these neighbors to complain about my stuff all the time.


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## 7milesup (Nov 30, 2020)

Superburban said:


> If it was just me and the Wife, I would have considered a place that had a small living area above the shop. Would not have these neighbors to complain about my stuff all the time.



Ha!  If it were just me, I would have a large shop and luxury living quarters in the back.   Wife would have none of it though.  I do love my house though that looks out over a river and surrounded by my 22 acres.


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