# New and Improved 1440GS Ordered



## MtnBiker (Apr 7, 2021)

Recently ordered the new and improved 1440GS (you have to call - shows Out of stock on the website). And of note, there is a new variable speed (single phase connection, internal 3ph/VFD) option available. For anyone considering a new lathe made to a more cost-conscious price point, this may be an interesting option. This new model should slot in quality-wise between PMs other mainland China 1440 models and ultra-precision Taiwan models while providing very competitive features and work envelope...at least that's my take on it. PM says more info to come soon ("New and Improved model finalized as of April 2021 June 2021 Expected Availability Details to be posted shortly. Very similar model to what is shown, with many small improvements made").


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## wrmiller (Apr 7, 2021)

Post back when you get it, give us your impressions, and post lots of pics!


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## wrmiller (Apr 7, 2021)

Matt has a 1440BV (variable) on his site. Is this the one you're getting, or is it a different one or a upgraded version of this?


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## MtnBiker (Apr 7, 2021)

wrmiller said:


> Matt has a 1440BV (variable) on his site. Is this the one you're getting, or is it a different one or a upgraded version of this?


Not the BV. This one is not on the site yet but will be soon. It is a replacement for the GS. There is both a traditional geared head and variable option. Both 3hp (the BV is 2hp)


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## 7milesup (Apr 7, 2021)

I am curious about the specs.  I ended up buying an Eisen 1440E after considering the 1340GT from Matt.  The only difference between the Eisen and the PM, at least from what I can figure out, is the bore size. The Eisen was $3000 less than the PM 1440GT, yet the Eisen is made in Taiwan.


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## MtnBiker (Apr 7, 2021)

7milesup said:


> I am curious about the specs.  I ended up buying an Eisen 1440E after considering the 1340GT from Matt.  The only difference between the Eisen and the PM, at least from what I can figure out, is the bore size. The Eisen was $3000 less than the PM 1440GT, yet the Eisen is made in Taiwan.


Specs will be very similar to the current GS from what I gather (except for the variable speed option). Not in the same class as a 1440GT but a step up from the BV and E-LB. Your Eisen is certainly better made (not really a question). All in, the GS replacement made sense as a first lathe for us - won't be our last. I played with a 21x40 the other day (3.5" bore) and loved it.


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## ArmyDoc (Apr 7, 2021)

Would love to see the owners manual for this machine and some pics.  Hope they update the site soon.


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## Hozzie (Apr 7, 2021)

Full disclosure that I have one of the previous 1440GS's (It's 3 years old now, but doesn't get used hardly ever because it can't thread without kicking out of gear).  Not to be negative, but I really hope the improvements are quite large.  I know the price point is nice, but mine is a POS.  I have yet to hear of one person that was truly unhappy with a Taiwan machine.  I will be selling mine at a multi-thousand dollar loss to buy a Taiwan machine.

I know the cost is tempting and I do hope they have really improved them, but I would be really sure.  Best case, I would want to see one in person first.  Once it's delivered it's yours whether it's good or bad.  I offered to ship mine back at my cost within two weeks of receiving it and pay the difference for a 1440GT and they wouldn't do it.


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## MtnBiker (Apr 8, 2021)

Hozzie said:


> Full disclosure that I have one of the previous 1440GS's (It's 3 years old now, but doesn't get used hardly ever because it can't thread without kicking out of gear).  Not to be negative, but I really hope the improvements are quite large.  I know the price point is nice, but mine is a POS.  I have yet to hear of one person that was truly unhappy with a Taiwan machine.  I will be selling mine at a multi-thousand dollar loss to buy a Taiwan machine.
> 
> I know the cost is tempting and I do hope they have really improved them, but I would be really sure.  Best case, I would want to see one in person first.  Once it's delivered it's yours whether it's good or bad.  I offered to ship mine back at my cost within two weeks of receiving it and pay the difference for a 1440GT and they wouldn't do it.


You're not the first (about #7 now). You guys are starting to get in my head. There is no way I'm paying the money for a 1440GT as good as they are. I can probably do a 1640TL in about a year or so and that appears to be a legit commercial machine. Have a machinist acquaintance that can turn stuff for us if needed - but then I won't be building skills. Lot's to think about.


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## matthewsx (Apr 8, 2021)

If you’re buying for a business get what you need and start making money. It’s called opportunity cost and if your plan is sound you won’t regret stretching to get started sooner. Since you’ve had your hands on real commercial iron dealing with hobby stuff probably doesn’t make sense for a business. Capital investment is what makes manufacturing run.

John


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## MtnBiker (Apr 8, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> If you’re buying for a business get what you need and start making money. It’s called opportunity cost and if your plan is sound you won’t regret stretching to get started sooner. Since you’ve had your hands on real commercial iron dealing with hobby stuff probably doesn’t make sense for a business. Capital investment is what makes manufacturing run.
> 
> John


Agree John. Decided to cry once and save for a real industrial machine. So there will be an extra 1440 2SM-V available for a lucky hobbyist. A little bummed about pushing skills out a year or two - but there is plenty to keep me busy.


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## qualitymachinetools (Apr 8, 2021)

> I offered to ship mine back at my cost within two weeks of receiving it and pay the difference for a 1440GT and they wouldn't do it.


Hozzie, I certainly do not remember that, and I looked through all of our messages, and can not find that mentioned once. Looks like you received in July or , and I heard nothing until October when you needed a gear in the gearbox. All I can find is me recommending that you to buy the 1340GT at the time before you ended up deciding on the 1440GS.  Strongly recommending the machines from Taiwan over that 1440GS. A quote from what I had typed, copied from our messages from before you placed the order:  

_ Also, the statement that you made below, *"I really want the quality of the Taiwan machine*, but can't justify the cost of      the 1440GT and the 1340 doesn't have a brake or enclosed gearbox.       I will mainly be doing gunsmithing so the GS seems to make      sense."    That makes me nervous.   Just don't expect the Chinese      machine to be as good. Its a decent lathe, but they will NOT be as      good as the Taiwan made machines.   If you have decided to go that      way, no problem at all, but I just wanted to say that once more      just so we are on the same page._

 You've been extremely polite every time, not a problem with you, just had to clear it up since people read these for years to come. All good.

Last email I have from you is showing from November 2017. If there is still a problem please contact us so we can get it figured out.

 Or if you want to upgrade to the 1440GT or the 1440TL, as long as your machine hasn't been abused or anything (Used is fine of course, but abused is not, I am sure its fine just had to put that in here), order a new machine from us, send the GS back, Ill give full credit for what you paid for it towards one of these 1440's. No need to lose thousands selling it off, you lose nothing other than the time to get it ready for shipping. I will make this offer good for 30 days from the date of this post, which is 4-8-2021.  Only thing is we are months out on the 1440GT Lathes, so many on backorder, but I can get you in line and we will get it figured out. Email sales@precisionmatthews.com if you want to do that. Or tech@ if you have a problem you just want to get figured out. 



> If you’re buying for a business get what you need and start making money. It’s called opportunity cost and if your plan is sound you won’t regret stretching to get started sooner. Since you’ve had your hands on real commercial iron dealing with hobby stuff probably doesn’t make sense for a business. Capital investment is what makes manufacturing run.



Absolutely. I try to explain this to customers every day. Couldn't have said it better myself. 


This new 1440GS replacement will be improved over the old model. But it still is not at nice as our 1440GT or TL Series. With that said, I would say well over 90% of customers are happy with the Chinese machines like the 1440GS or others. They fit a price point, are DECENT machines, and many many people turn out great work with them. But I would say that 99% of customers are happy with the Ultra Precision series that we have which are made in Taiwan.       You get what you pay for, there is no question about it, but both machines definitely have their place.  If it was up to me, we would only sell the best of the best. But we also have to sell what people want and what they will buy. So we have both.


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## MtnBiker (Apr 8, 2021)

I think that's more than fair Matt!


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## Hozzie (Apr 8, 2021)

qualitymachinetools said:


> Hozzie, I certainly do not remember that, and I looked through all of our messages, and can not find that mentioned once. Looks like you received in July or , and I heard nothing until October when you needed a gear in the gearbox. All I can find is me recommending that you to buy the 1340GT at the time before you ended up deciding on the 1440GS.  Strongly recommending the machines from Taiwan over that 1440GS. A quote from what I had typed, copied from our messages from before you placed the order:
> 
> _ Also, the statement that you made below, *"I really want the quality of the Taiwan machine*, but can't justify the cost of      the 1440GT and the 1340 doesn't have a brake or enclosed gearbox.       I will mainly be doing gunsmithing so the GS seems to make      sense."    That makes me nervous.   Just don't expect the Chinese      machine to be as good. Its a decent lathe, but they will NOT be as      good as the Taiwan made machines.   If you have decided to go that      way, no problem at all, but I just wanted to say that once more      just so we are on the same page._
> 
> ...


Matt, I do appreciate the response.  I have tried to be fair as I do understand that sometimes there are just lemons.  I unfortunately felt like I got one and didn't have a lot of options as I saw it to get it remedied.  My intent with any of my posts was simply to make sure the person really understood what could happen and to be sure of what they are ordering.  No need to rehash any of that.

I sincerely appreciate and plan to take you up on your offer.  I am not familiar with the 1440TL, but will do some research and be in touch to work out what works for both of us.    

I don't know what else to say, but thanks for doing this.  It is appreciated.  There is nothing worse than having a piece of equipment you don't have confidence in.

Jamie


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## wrmiller (Apr 8, 2021)

Just a note on the quality of PM's Taiwan Machines: I've had my 1340GT since early '15 (March?) and do mostly gunsmithing on it and on my PM935 mill. They both are still running strong, and very accurate. When cutting on barrels, bushings, or mounting spuds on the 1340GT, I can take sub thou cuts and almost always hit my target dimension. When I don't, it's me, not the machine. These machines do seem to hold up well.

Just my opinion of course.


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## MtnBiker (Apr 8, 2021)

Hozzie said:


> I am not familiar with the 1440TL, but will do some research and be in touch to work out what works for both of us.


Check out BasementShopGuy on YouTube. Everything he says about the 1640TL would apply to the 1440TL. The TL series lathes are made by Sun Master and are truly world-class machines. The extra bore diameter on the spindle is also unique to PM and a huge benefit for production work.


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## Hozzie (Apr 8, 2021)

MtnBiker said:


> Check out BasementShopGuy on YouTube. Everything he says about the 1640TL would apply to the 1440TL. The TL series lathes are made by Sun Master and are truly world-class machines. The extra bore diameter on the spindle is also unique to PM and a huge benefit for production work.


Thanks.  I didn't realize the TL was that much bigger/heavier.  The 1440GT will be overkill in and of itself for me, so going bigger/better isn't necessary as all I am doing is personal gun work for the most part.   To be honest, the 1340 GT would be fine now that I have a bit more experience.  The GS was my first "real" lathe and I wanted to have the foot break just in case as I had zero experience using a lathe hence why I didn't get the 1340GT to start.   I have a lot of tooling/chucks that will fit the 1440GT from my GS so it will make for an easy swap and hopefully make it easier on Matt.


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## mksj (Apr 8, 2021)

Hozzie,
The electronic braking with the VFD can stop the chuck in about 1 second, which is really nice for close work in near the chuck. If you end up with either GT model and need some help with the VFD install, let me know and I will give you a hand. I previously owned the 1340GT and also worked on a couple of 1440GT lathes, both are very fine lathes and one can do very accurate work with either. Having a bit more heft and having a foot brake to lock the chuck for hand tapping is a plus for the 1440GT. The 1440TL is a beast, but mighty nice. If I wasn't already tooled up for a 1340 lathe, I would have gone for the 1440TL, but I purchased my ERL1340 from QMT and it does everything I need. The ERL/TL are  about 4" wider in the the headstock, so that may be a factor.
Mark


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## wrmiller (Apr 8, 2021)

I have mksj's electronic braking circuit on my 1340GT. When spinning my 8" PBA chuck at < 800 rpm or so I use the 1 second brake. For higher rpms I use the 3 second brake. For blind hole threading or boring it really helps save my nerves. And my tooling.


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## qualitymachinetools (Apr 9, 2021)

It is tough, it is every day, same thing. Nothing related to anyone above, just in general. I have the customers who say they are very picky and take great pride in their tools, I always recommend the higher end machine. Some go for it, some want it but then buy on price only. I wish I could show them all in person first, but that just isn't possible. 

 I've even thought about having the machines come in partially finished and then finishing it all here. But that requires finding people who are good at this kind of thing, it is not easy. Then the price goes way up, people will still compare prices with other brands and buy the cheaper machine most of the time. And at that point, the machines from Taiwan come in to play.  So many ideas through my head every day.


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## Hozzie (Apr 9, 2021)

mksj said:


> Hozzie,
> The electronic braking with the VFD can stop the chuck in about 1 second, which is really nice for close work in near the chuck. If you end up with either GT model and need some help with the VFD install, let me know and I will give you a hand. I previously owned the 1340GT and also worked on a couple of 1440GT lathes, both are very fine lathes and one can do very accurate work with either. Having a bit more heft and having a foot brake to lock the chuck for hand tapping is a plus for the 1440GT. The 1440TL is a beast, but mighty nice. If I wasn't already tooled up for a 1340 lathe, I would have gone for the 1440TL, but I purchased my ERL1340 from QMT and it does everything I need. The ERL/TL are  about 4" wider in the the headstock, so that may be a factor.
> Mark



Well, I will probably take you up on that.  Just told Matt to go ahead with the 3 Phase 1440GT.  The good news with the wait is I have plenty of time to read the plethora of info out there and plan well (hopefully).   I have read some of the VFD threads before so I will go back to those and re-read.   I am sure there will be questions upon questions coming so thanks in advance!  The good news is that I am pretty good with the search function so I'll try not to wear out your generosity.


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## Boxster9 (Apr 9, 2021)

Congratulation on the purchase of a PM 1440 GT it is a beautiful machine. I purchased mine three years ago and after speaking with Mark Jacobs, he built a new Control Panel. Not having electrical experience, Mark's writeup on the steps to install the VFD and Control Panel gave me the confidence to complete the job.  He walked me through the process of wiring up the VFD (purchased from Matt) and the new Control Panel in phone calls, e-mail and text messages over a couple of months.  The lathe has  worked flawlessly ever since and each time I use the proximity stop, the variable speed control or the forward/reverse jog switch, I am grateful to have made the choice to enhance the lathe and add additional capabilities.  Good luck on your journey and happy experiences.


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## Rifleman1384 (Apr 10, 2021)

^^^ what he said. My PM 1440GT has only been here a few weeks. I also did the Mark Jacobs conversion, I had exchanged a few emails and read most everything I could find here about the system, some wait and do it later and some do it on the front end. Everyone has their own reason but I highly recommend the system and the best time to do it in my opinion is before you remove the machine from the pallet. Much more room than when you have it place, I removed the and replaced the control board, re-wired and installed the switches before taking the machine off the pallet. 

I will say when you get the system from Mark an you open it, it looked liked I was in over my head. I'm not an electrician but 20 year automotive technician background, did all the wiring for the shop. Mark does a great job with the instructions,  it's really straight forward. I am very pleased that I went this route instead of RPC and I am sure you will be as well. If you think I could help in any way please just reach out.


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## Hozzie (Apr 10, 2021)

I feel like I need to apologize to MtnBiker for hijacking his thread.  I really do hope your 1440GS works out great.   Sounds like it should from what Matt told me about the new machines.  Hope your wait isn't too long.


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## Pcmaker (Apr 10, 2021)

Does the 1440GT have the same oil drip system as the 1340GT? I know BladesIIB on youtube has a 1440


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## Stonebriar (Apr 10, 2021)

Pcmaker said:


> Does the 1440GT have the same oil drip system as the 1340GT? I know BladesIIB on youtube has a 1440


No it does not.


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