# Er-40 Collet Blocks From Arc Euro Trade



## mikey (Mar 2, 2016)

As we all know, collet block come in really handy when we have to hold something in a vise for milling. The most common ones we see here in the US are the 5-C blocks but they have some limitations, namely the limited clamping range of a 5-C collet and the fact that there is a nut in the back of the block. An ER-40 collet block does not have these limitations but they aren't produced by any US maker I know of. 

Of course, they have been out for some time in the UK and can be bought from Arc Euro Trade. In the not too distant past the shipping from the UK has often been more expensive than the parts themselves but just a few days ago I looked again and was surprised to see the shipping is now a lot more reasonable ... so I jumped.

I purchased the two-block set: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Collets/ER-Collet-Fixtures/Stevensons-ER40-Collet-Blocks

2 each Ball Bearing ER-40 nuts: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catal...nners/ER-Collet-Nuts-with-Ball-Bearing-Type-B

And the forged steel wrench: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catal...es-and-Spanners/Forged-ER-Collet-Nut-Wrenches

Total cost with shipping via FedEx was 77.03 GBP or a bit over $100.00. I placed an order and got the package 4 days later! Not only is it more reasonable to ship, it gets here quick!

The collet blocks are nicely ground on all sides and in back so you can stand the block up in the vise to get your work vertical. Of course, the work can extend all the way through the collet.

The nuts fit well and lock down with surprisingly little force. The wrench is a very good fit on these nuts and has a padded handle. I like the wrench much better than my ETM wrench.

All in all, the pieces are well made. I suspect they are made in China but cannot find anything to suggest this in the packaging. Functionally, they are as good as the 5-C blocks I already have with the benefit of not having to be exactly on size like a 5-C requires. I know most of us already know about these blocks but I wanted to give you a mini-review and let you know that shipping seems to be a lot better now.


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 2, 2016)

Pretty cool!


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## Kennlindeman (Mar 2, 2016)

I also acquired the set from Eurotrade some time back and I am very happy with them. It would be nice to see a smaller set, maybe in ER15 or ER 20?


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## Bob Korves (Mar 2, 2016)

Interesting...  Thanks!


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## omni_dilletante (Mar 2, 2016)

Well, this post cost me $80.


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## Ed ke6bnl (Mar 2, 2016)

how does the pricing work for USA, VAT vs no VAT and shipping to USA.


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## roadie33 (Mar 2, 2016)

I just made my own blocks in Hex and Square.
I had already made the one for my lathe some time back, so those were easy to make.
Used 2 1/4" Hex stock and 2 1/2" round and just milled the 4 flats after machining the collet taper in it.
Bought a set of 3 nuts off ebay for $15.
Good to go and they get used quit often in the mill.
Here is the square one I made. Don't have any pics of the Hex but it is same size.


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## dlhoulton (Mar 2, 2016)

I also got a set of the ER32 blocks. They are great! Well made and an essential too. Price was great and shipping was only two days to my location. I've bought several items from Eurotrade and have always been pleased with cost and shipping. One other tool I got was the Spin Indexer that does 5C and ER 32 collets all in one unit.


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## dlane (Mar 2, 2016)

Wondering how the ball bearing nut works ? .


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## GreatOldOne (Mar 2, 2016)

dlane said:


> Wondering how the ball bearing nut works ? .



I just got an ER32 set with a ballbearing nut. The collet clips into the nut as normal, but the retention ring / taper is attached to the bearing, and is free to stay stationary as the nut rotates around it. So as you tighten up, there's less friction to overcome.


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## mikey (Mar 2, 2016)

Ed ke6bnl said:


> how does the pricing work for USA, VAT vs no VAT and shipping to USA.



No VAT and whereas they used to only ship with Royal Post, which is very expensive, they now use FedEx to the US. The dollar seems to be getting stronger and it seemed like a good time to buy.


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## mikey (Mar 2, 2016)

GreatOldOne said:


> I just got an ER32 set with a ballbearing nut. The collet clips into the nut as normal, but the retention ring / taper is attached to the bearing, and is free to stay stationary as the nut rotates around it. So as you tighten up, there's less friction to overcome.



+1. I was a bit leery about how these nuts would release and unlock the part but they work like the normal nuts work. When you unlock you get the usual bit of free play and then it resists until the collet pops free of the taper and the part is free. They do seem to lock down easier but I have no way to measure how much force is being applied to the part.


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## mikey (Mar 2, 2016)

omni_dilletante said:


> Well, this post cost me $80.



 The next time we have to cut slots for woodruff keys in two places that have to be in the same plane we'll be happy to have them!


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## planeflyer21 (Mar 3, 2016)

mikey said:


> No VAT and whereas they used to only ship with Royal Post, which is very expensive, they now use FedEx to the US. The dollar seems to be getting stronger and it seemed like a good time to buy.



Okay, just to make sure my thick American noggin is comprehending this correctly...

If a person in the USA orders an item from Great Britain (or elsewhere in the EU), the VAT is null and void, therefore the VAT is not applied to the final purchase?

Sweet!  I want one of those fancy oil cans!


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## mikey (Mar 3, 2016)

planeflyer21 said:


> Okay, just to make sure my thick American noggin is comprehending this correctly...
> 
> If a person in the USA orders an item from Great Britain (or elsewhere in the EU), the VAT is null and void, therefore the VAT is not applied to the final purchase?
> 
> Sweet!  I want one of those fancy oil cans!



Do you mean the Reilang oilers? If so, they're excellent - I have two of them. Best oilers I've ever used.


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## planeflyer21 (Mar 3, 2016)

mikey said:


> Do you mean the Reilang oilers? If so, they're excellent - I have two of them. Best oilers I've ever used.



YES!!  The Reilang oilers!  Just look at them.  They are visibly engineered to be a superior product.

Buy once, cry once!


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## omni_dilletante (Mar 3, 2016)

ER40 collet blocks & ball bearing nut arrived 28hrs after I ordered them.  

VISA card shows charge of $76.63.  

They look good.


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 3, 2016)

omni_dilletante Those look like hand planes in your avatar, have you posted anything about them here? I would like to see them in better pictures and maybe know a little more about them. This is on my bucket list to do and I have recently aquired some nice stainless steel blocks to make some.


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## mlake01 (Mar 3, 2016)

Cost me $80 too, and they'll be here tomorrow!  I ended up with a box of about 30 different ER40 collets in a trade a couple years ago, which I almost never use - until now...  Thanks for the tip!


Sent from my fart smone using crapatalk


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## wildo (Mar 25, 2017)

Thanks for this post! I just bought a 5C collet block set and was looking for collets when I wondered about ER40 collets instead. Looks like the way to go! Now I wish I wouldn't have bought the 5C blocks, though they can't hurt.


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## mikey (Mar 25, 2017)

I have both, too. The ER-40 blocks are more versatile but functionally, they are the same. These are very handy to have for quick and basic indexing.


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## darkzero (Mar 25, 2017)

Missed this thread, that's when I was MIA. I recently got me a set of the ER-40 blocks too along with their bearing nuts. Luckily my collet wrench fit them. 

I love these things. I have a super spacer but there were so many times where I just needed to quickly cut 2, 4, or 6 sides. Sucked having to lug the super spacer onto the table & indicate only to spend a minute or 2 or milling. The super spacer is heavy.

I was also suprised when they showed up the next day! One day shipping all the way from the UK!


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## mikey (Mar 25, 2017)

darkzero said:


> Missed this thread, that's when I was MIA. I recently got me a set of the ER-40 blocks too along with their bearing nuts. Luckily my collet wrench fit them.
> 
> I love these things. I have a super spacer but there were so many times where I just needed to quickly cut 2, 4, or 6 sides. Sucked having to lug the super spacer onto the table & indicate only to spend a minute or 2 or milling. The super spacer is heavy.
> 
> I was also suprised when they showed up the next day! One day shipping all the way from the UK!



Yup, really handy. Collet blocks and a good work stop and you can do basic indexing. The ER blocks are better for holding things vertical because there is no nut in back like the 5c blocks. As Will said, shipping is very fast and a lot cheaper than it used to be. I would consider them, Wildo.


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## wildo (Mar 25, 2017)

I plan on picking them up. Question though- I also plan on getting a nice indexing head. Seems these all take 5C collets as well. So what's your opinion on a 5c Shank ER40 holder like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5C-Shank-ER40-Chuck-With-15-PC-Collets-Set-/281979407701

Does the 5C shank still allow 1" stock to stick through? (Or actually maybe the  largest 5C collet is 1 1/8") 

...Or perhaps said differently- is there still a reason to get a 5C collet set when you could be using ER40 stuff instead?


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## rgray (Mar 25, 2017)

wildo said:


> Does the 5C shank still allow 1" stock to stick through? (Or actually maybe the largest 5C collet is 1 1/8")



I had never seen one of those. Looks like a handy item. It says internally threaded so probably hollow all the way through. The internal threads are for stops so no reason for a stop if it's not hollow.
One of my 5c collets will pass 1" stock and one won't that is right on the limit for the internal thread size.

5c's will grip short stock and self release.
ER's will get inaccurate with stock that is shorter than the collet, and don't self release (the nut must be backed off and it pulls the collet out)

I'm just blabering. Maybe someone who has one will be more informative.


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## Bob Korves (Mar 25, 2017)

5C collets have a 1" through hole.  5C collets larger than 1" have a step in the bore, only 1"  I.D. beyond the step.
(edit: at least for the set I have...)


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 25, 2017)

This whole thread about these collets has got me thinking. I will be needing some collets for my knee mill soon and think maybe I should go with er 40's instead of r8's.


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## dlane (Mar 25, 2017)

Tried to order er40 collet blocks from arc eurotrade with visa debit card ,no go, hope there secure
Only credit card I have is discover, they don't take them


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## darkzero (Mar 25, 2017)

dlane said:


> Tried to order er40 collet blocks from arc eurotrade with visa debit card ,no go, hope there secure
> Only credit card I have is discover, they don't take them



Check with your bank. Most banks don't allow foreign transactions for debit cards. Even when I paid with my credit card it was declined by the credit card company, I had to verify it wasn't fraudulent activity & then I was able to complete the transaction. Some credit cards charge a foreign transaction fee as well.


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## rgray (Mar 25, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> maybe I should go with er 40's instead of r8's.



I have an old bridgeport with r8's. I bought an er40 setup for it and find myself never using it.
R8's are pretty handy.


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## Bob Korves (Mar 25, 2017)

The ER collets are accurate and each collet takes a wider range of sizes than other choices, but the adapters do take up more headroom on the mill.  They also take considerable torque to properly tighten them.  Everything has its pluses and minuses.


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## Dave Paine (Mar 25, 2017)

darkzero said:


> Check with your bank. Most banks don't allow foreign transactions for debit cards. Even when I paid with my credit card it was declined by the credit card company, I had to verify it wasn't fraudulent activity & then I was able to complete the transaction. Some credit cards charge a foreign transaction fee as well.



A few years ago my credit card number was stolen.  The bank contacted me due to suspicious charges.  I learned the criminals test the card by billing the likes of $1.  If this goes through then they hit the card with higher fraudulent charges.  Ever since this theft I may get a charge blocked from a store/company I have not used before.  I get the automated call from the bank, then if I call and verify the charge it will go through.  I expect if I ordered from a UK site, I would get the bank blocking the charge and sending me an automated call.

I had a UK debit payment not go through last year.   Happened to be by a small outfit called Her Majesties Government.   The UK no longer provides passports from the Washington DC consulate.  The passport has to be applied online to the UK office.   I had to change to paying with credit card to be able to complete the transaction.


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## mikey (Mar 25, 2017)

wildo said:


> I plan on picking them up. Question though- I also plan on getting a nice indexing head. Seems these all take 5C collets as well. So what's your opinion on a 5c Shank ER40 holder like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5C-Shank-ER40-Chuck-With-15-PC-Collets-Set-/281979407701
> 
> Does the 5C shank still allow 1" stock to stick through? (Or actually maybe the  largest 5C collet is 1 1/8")
> 
> ...Or perhaps said differently- is there still a reason to get a 5C collet set when you could be using ER40 stuff instead?



If you're looking to buy an indexing head, why not consider this one: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catal...ns-5C-Indexing-Head-with-ER32-Nut-and-Adaptor

Only ER-32 but also takes 5c. It also allows pass through.

Both the 5c and ER systems are useful. The key limitation with the 5c is that they only clamp nominal sized stock; the part must be within 0.005" of the stated diameter for a 5c collet to grab it. Hobby guys tend to use stock that is not nominal size. We may turn a nominal sized piece and then turn it around and machine the other side - you may or may not have a 5c collet for that turned side ... now what?

ER collets have a much larger range and can collapse about 0.032" or so. With a full set of collets you can grab anything within the range of that set and it is seamless.

Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages but I won't go into that here. I'll just say I have both and I much prefer the ER system. If I worked in a production shop then I'd probably use the 5c more.


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## ddickey (Mar 25, 2017)

I made the same order as you Mike a few months ago. Used the square block several times and the hex one less but very glad I have it.
I realized I have 5c indexer that came with my mill. With there was a 5c-er40 adapter for it.


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## mikey (Mar 25, 2017)

I'll try to keep an eye on the Arc Eurotrade site. Stevenson is a smart guy and he may just come out with a 5c to ER-40 adapter one day.


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## ddickey (Mar 25, 2017)

Or a D1-5 back plate for an er-40 collet


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## darkzero (Mar 25, 2017)

mikey said:


> I'll try to keep an eye on the Arc Eurotrade site. Stevenson is a smart guy and he may just come out with a 5c to ER-40 adapter one day.



Not by Stevenson but there are 5c to ER-40 adapters on ebay.


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## rgray (Mar 25, 2017)

ddickey said:


> Or a D1-5 back plate for an er-40 collet



D1-5  ER-50 that's what I want.


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## wildo (Mar 25, 2017)

mikey said:


> If you're looking to buy an indexing head, why not consider this one: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catal...ns-5C-Indexing-Head-with-ER32-Nut-and-Adaptor



After clicking that link, it occurred to me that I would actually like to get a dividing head with indexor built in. That said, I can imagine how handy something like that indexing head would be. Thanks for the comments on the differences between the two systems. Very useful info and helpful folks here!


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## Bob Korves (Mar 26, 2017)

wildo said:


> After clicking that link, it occurred to me that I would actually like to get a dividing head with indexor built in. That said, I can imagine how handy something like that indexing head would be. Thanks for the comments on the differences between the two systems. Very useful info and helpful folks here!


That one is called a spin indexer, or spindex.  They can divide to 1 degree increments, but are pretty much designed for horizontal spindle work, unless you have lots of headroom and like making bigger setups.  You see them being used more on surface grinders, but they can definitely be used on mills as well for lighter work.


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## ddickey (Mar 26, 2017)

Oh, that's what I have also. Thanks for the info.


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## Tozguy (Mar 26, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> The ER collets are accurate and each collet takes a wider range of sizes than other choices, but the adapters do take up more headroom on the mill.  They also take considerable torque to properly tighten them.  Everything has its pluses and minuses.



Bob, would you elaborate on the torque question please, what is 'considerable' torque and how is it a 'minus' for ER chucks?


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## darkzero (Mar 26, 2017)

Tozguy said:


> Bob, would you elaborate on the torque question please, what is 'considerable' torque and how is it a 'minus' for ER chucks?



The amount of torque recommended for ER32 & ER40 is way higher than you might think. Without the tool holder mounted in a fixture, chances are you probably can't torque them to spec with a wrench in each hand unless you're a gorilla. I forget but it's something well over 100 ft/lbs. They sell torque wrenches specifically for this.

But that's recommended torque. For hobby use it's not necessary. With that said, I've never had an endmill slip on me. I'll crank down on the nut pretty hard when I feel I need to. But knowing the torque spec I know I won't damage it. I also use Lyndex bearing nuts on my ER40 chucks which make it easier to tighten & loosen. Usually the smaller diameters in the larger collet sizes are prone to slipping if not tightened down hard. So for my ER40, I don't go smaller than 3/8". For smaller I use ER16.

Teknics used list the torque specs on their website but they upgraded the website a while back I can't find it anymore.

EDIT: Here it is http://www.techniksusa.com/metal/torque_chart.htm

100 ft/lbs for ER32 & 130 ft/lbs for ER40


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## Tozguy (Mar 26, 2017)

DZ, thanks for the link to Techiks chart.
I was already aware that the maximum torque for my ER 32 collet nut is 125 ft-lbs but have never had to go anywhere near that in practice.
My collets are only used for work holding on a lathe and the wrench supplied with the kit provides adequate leverage. 

A Weldon style holder is used for end mills on my lathe. However it is easily conceivable that an ER nut would need to be torqued up tight to hold an end mill from slipping so I have taken note of the recommendations for posterity.


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## wildo (Mar 26, 2017)

darkzero said:


> But knowing the torque spec I know I won't damage it. I also use Lyndex bearing nuts on my ER40 chucks which make it easier to tighten & loosen.



Ah!!! And _now_ I understand why bearing nuts exist for this application. I was wondering about that.


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## jpackard56 (May 12, 2021)

I know this is an old post but I finally felt well enough to do something in the shop. So I got started and remembered that I had wanted to use an 
ER -32 hex block for this particular project. Well as the tool I was making developed it became apparent that I would need an ER-40 to facilitate. So off to my favorite experienced masters for information. Several of you suggested Arc-Ero-Trade for obtaining ER blocks. I placed the order Monday. Fed-ex says they picked these up at Archdale street, Syston, Leicester, LE7 1NA, England, UK on May 11th, 2021. I have them in my hands this afternoon in SE Ohio  WOW, how in the world  !! 
They were very reasonably priced after conversion to $US and they appear to be nicely done. I'll hopefully get back to the shop tomorrow to see how things go.
So definately agree Arc-Ero-Trade deserves a look see, especially if you need ER-blocks !


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## darkzero (May 12, 2021)

Also, don't forget to pick up an economy set of ER collets for workholding. I think it was Mikey who recommended it some time ago. I never got around to buying a set cause I don't use a collet chuck/ER collets for workholding all that much. I just had nominal sizes in ER-40 & ER-16 that I use for toolholding so a set of ER-40s was at the bottom of my list to buy.

Finally picked up a set last month. Found a 23 pc set for a great price & included a wood rack. Normally the empty slot would have bothered me but it worked out perfect since I now have a spot to store my oversized 1-1/8" ER-40 collet. Now I can save my better Techniks collets for toolholding only.







A while back I made up a couple of mini 3-jaw accessory chucks. One of them I use with the collet blocks for sizes larger than the ER-40 collets can hold. Again comes in handy when I don't feel like setting up the super spacer for something quick & small.

(Here I'm using it cause I didn't have the right size collet at the time)


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## mikey (May 12, 2021)

That 3-jaw setup is sweet! Another one on the list. Thanks, Will.


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## darkzero (May 12, 2021)

Thanks Mike!


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