# I Serviced My 10l Spindle And Need Some Advice Please



## Gary Gill (Jul 24, 2016)

Update: 30JUL16  Spindle is back in the lathe and running fine. Thanks

This is long winded but I want to explain what I have done so far. There are questions at the end.

Here is where I started. I have a South Bend 10L made late 1960 or early '61. The leather belt drive appears to be old and stretched. It ran in back gear okay but the belt slips on the pulley otherwise. I added tension to the belt but not much improvement. I figure I need to replace the belt.

I wanted to be sure the lathe was properly lubricated. I acquired new wicks, felt and laminated shims for the spindle bearings. I started by removing the drain plugs and found there was very little oil in them. I loosened the locking ring at the outboard end of the spindle and backed it off about 1/16”. (I found there were no plugs over the expander screws). I back out the expander screws and then removed the socket cap screws and lifted the bearing caps off. There were full profile shims on the outboard bearing and pieces of shims on the other bearing. I removed what was left of the wicks.

I did not dis-assemble the spindle. I wiped all surfaces on the spindle and set it aside. I then cleaned up the bearing seats and caps. I made sure the passages were clear, I poured mineral spirits through the passages and passed a pipe cleaner through as well. I replaced the drain plugs.

After wiping spindle oil on the bearing surfaces, I placed the spindle back into the casting using wires to retain the wicks. I realized then, even without installing the caps the spindle was stiff to rotate. (I was gripping the bull gear and the nose) I lifted out looked for a problem, saw nothing obvious and then placed the spindle back into the casting. Still hard to rotate.

Following the spindle re-assembly procedures, I peeled off laminations of shims and achieved .0015” play at the nose and .001 at the outboard. (My indicator reads in .0001” increments.)

I refilled the oil reservoirs with spindle oil. I installed the 6” chuck and I can turn the spindle using the chuck wrench for leverage. It will run in back gear as before. After 5 minutes of run time the bearing caps were slightly warm to the touch. Tested again at 15 minutes and thirty minutes. Never got so warm that I couldn't leave my hand on it.




Does is it sound like the spindle bearing adjustment is normal?


If it is too tight, what sort of damage am I creating?


Would you replace the belt and run with it providing it drives the higher speeds?
Thanks

Gary


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## woodtickgreg (Jul 24, 2016)

No something is wrong with the spindle and bearings. Are the bearing surfaces smooth and without grooves. The spindle should turn very freely by hand. Cleaning the reservoirs and installing new wicks and everything else you have done is good. I also recommend you pull the spindle assy and remove the pulley cone. If it was ever run in back gear with no oil it may have galled up the bearing that is in the cone. You should be able to rotate that spindle by hand and give it a spin with the chuck installed and get a full rotation minimal when you give it a spin. Binding of any kind will cause heat and oil starvation and you will have failure. The spindle is the heart of the machine and tolerances are very tight. It is critical that each step of the disassemble and re assemble be done with the most care and perfectly, nothing should be skipped. You cannot set bearing tolerances if  You do not know for a fact that all of the parts are good. And is the spindle bent?
In short NO! Do not run it until you get it sorted out or you will cause some major damage and end up doing this all again after you spend a bunch of money looking for new parts.
Pull the spindle and remove the cone assy and inspect all the bearing surfaces, check the spindle between centers with an indicator to make sure it is not bent.


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## Gary Gill (Jul 24, 2016)

I will do that. Thank you


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## Gary Gill (Jul 26, 2016)

I dis-assembled the spindle.  I wiped all surfaces clean.  Not having another lathe to hold the spindle between centers, I placed the bearings on the spindle ans coated with spindle oil. (The spindle turned freely) I then placed the spindle back into the head stock casting. I setup an indicator on the spindle in a two places. I saw no movement to indicate the spindle is bent. Maybe this this measurement was folly, but all I can do for now.  Here are photos of the spindle and bearings. I can not feel grooves with my finger nail.


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## Gary Gill (Jul 26, 2016)




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## brino (Jul 26, 2016)

It doesn't look too bad.


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## dlane (Jul 26, 2016)

The oil wick tubes should stick up into spindle bearings aprox 3/16" to keep bearing located , the first pic on big end dosn't look like expander slot is up straight.
 Could be the light but the bearing inside surface looks different on the lower portion the way your holding it. Other than that they don't look to bad.


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## Gary Gill (Jul 26, 2016)

The picture of the spindle in the head stock casting, the wicks were held down by wires. I didn't try to locate them. Thanks


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## woodtickgreg (Jul 26, 2016)

Me personally I don't like the look of the surface where the bearing rides on the spindle. It looks like it has been starved of oil at some pointe. I would have those spindle bearing surfaces polished, a engine machine shop could do it, they could also check the spindle to see if it is bent. South Bends were known for their polished spindles, that one no longer is, the polish is what allows it to run on a film of oil. Think crankshaft in a vehicle motor, same thing. I would also polish the insides of the bearings. When all of that is done then you can set the clearance. How did the bearing surface of the bronze bearing inside of the pully cone look?
Edit: I just looked at the pics again, I definitely don't like the surfaces of the spindle where the bearings ride, especially the small end, looks grooved. All surfaces need to be polished.


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## dlane (Jul 26, 2016)

The bearings are located by the wick tubes and mabey the expanders . Keeps them from spinning,
Worth a look , brass wick tubes should be aprox 3/16" up above journal ".                                       "
Locate bearing /spindle with tube in bearing bottom hole But not rubbing on spindle 
They seem to get pushed down when spindles are serviced


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## woodtickgreg (Jul 26, 2016)

You do have the bearing expanders right?


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## dlane (Jul 27, 2016)

Pic of tubes in place, expander bearing & expanders, spindle in place  ,


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## Gary Gill (Jul 27, 2016)

woodtickgreg said:


> You do have the bearing expanders right?


Yes


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## Gary Gill (Jul 28, 2016)




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## woodtickgreg (Jul 28, 2016)

Those tubes are too low and will need to be pulled up a bit. I used a socket head cap screw, Allen bolt, just big enough to pass through the tube. Hook the head of the screw on the tube after you insert it to pull it up, sometimes clamping the screw with vice grips so you can tap it with a hammer helps. Or a slide hammer works great too, but not everyone has one of those.


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## coffmajt (Jul 28, 2016)

Gary Gill said:


> This is long winded but I want to explain what I have done so far. There are questions at the end.
> 
> Here is where I started. I have a South Bend 10L made late 1960 or early '61. The leather belt drive appears to be old and stretched. It ran in back gear okay but the belt slips on the pulley otherwise. I added tension to the belt but not much improvement. I figure I need to replace the belt.
> 
> ...


I would start by checking the bearing to housing fits using Prussian blue to see if you have true surfaces with no high spots. Once that is good then use the blue to check the bearing to spindle fits. Something is too tight based on your pictures and write up. Good hunting. Jack


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## Gary Gill (Jul 28, 2016)

coffmajt said:


> I would start by checking the bearing to housing fits using Prussian blue to see if you have true surfaces with no high spots. Once that is good then use the blue to check the bearing to spindle fits. Something is too tight based on your pictures and write up. Good hunting. Jack


Good idea. Thank you


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## dlane (Jul 28, 2016)

Tubes weren't holding bearings in place .


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## Gary Gill (Jul 30, 2016)

I got it back together and adjusted properly.  I can turn the spindle by hand.  The it runs fine in all six speeds under power.

Thanks to all of you who took time to guide me through this project.


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## brino (Jul 30, 2016)

Great news Gary!
Thanks for the update.
-brino


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## dlane (Jul 30, 2016)

Any idea what was causing the problem


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## Gary Gill (Jul 30, 2016)

The only thing I found was one hole in the main bearing expander was buggered up. I ran a tap through it.  Maybe the buggered up hole prevented the screw from lofting tne expander completely up.


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