# It's all I can stands can't stands no more



## mirage100 (Jan 25, 2014)

I have what I have been told is a South bend Tool Room lathe. I has a tool holder that will hold four bits but you have to shim them up. I am so tired of have to do this so now it is time for a new tool holder .Will any one please tell me what I need and where to get it.I would like a complete kit with everything I need to change this over to a indexable tool holder. Thanks so much for yall's time .


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## John120/240 (Jan 25, 2014)

It sounds like you need a Quick Change Toolpost. Aloris is one of the more popular brands. Check with McMaster Carr or Enco or others I'm sure.


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## Walltoddj (Jan 25, 2014)

What you need to know is the size of your lathe, the distance for center of the spindle to the top of the compound slide. This will give you a place to start looking my lathe is a 13" swing and if you go by what the venders would like to sell you I should use a CXC or 300, but due to the height of my compound slide I have a BXB or 200 piston type. Now I have a 400 piston type that I can just barely fit but only use it for the 1 1/4" bore bar.  You can go to Aloris web site to get the specs for the size you need it was to big to attach but just be sure what ever you get you can get your tool bit low enough to be on center I've milled a couple of my BXB holders to hold the bigger tools and milled so tools to fix the holders just to get the right height for the tool. A lot of places to get them or you can make a QCTH the tool blocks on mine are hardened so I've been getting them from  http://cdcotools.com/ $9-10 a piece I can't make them for that. Good luck I hope this was of some good to you.

Todd


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## mirage100 (Jan 25, 2014)

I do belive it is a 10 swing


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## Terrywerm (Jan 25, 2014)

With a 10" swing you will more than likely need an AXA or 100 series Quick Change Tool Post  (QCTP). As mentioned, Aloris makes one and can be purchased through any number of vendors. Phase II also makes one for somewhat less money. The Aloris is American made, the Phase II is either Chinese or Taiwanese, I don't remember which. I have used both, and find that the Phase II in most cases will do the job without a problem. 

There are two kinds of tool post in addition to the different brands:  Piston type and Wedge type.    The piston type has a rod or piston that pokes out from the side of the tool post and pushes the tool holder against the dovetails to tighten it up. They generally seem to be plenty solid.   The wedge type is constructed in such a way that one of the dovetails can move in an angled fashion, something like a wedge. When the post is tightened up, the wedge tightens up against the dovetails of the tool holder itself, locking it in place.

Differences??   The piston type is generally a bit less expensive than the wedge type, but the wedge type is claimed to offer better repeatability and may even be a bit more solid, reducing the chance for chatter.  Both types of toolpost use the same toolholders.

As I said before, I have used an Aloris, and it was wonderful. When I purchased one for my 10" Logan, I purchased a Phase II wedge type. Phase II fit into my budget much better, but I did splurge the extra ten or fifteen bucks to get the wedge type. I have no complaints, it serves me well.


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## Pmedic828 (Jan 25, 2014)

I purchased a quick change tool post from Smithy company - the one that makes the 3 in 1 machines.  I have used it for almost a year, and have purchased additional tool mounts from Shars, CDCO, and Grizzly without any problems or the need to make modifications.  Smithy also offers the tool mounts and parts like additional Chicago Bolts and other necessary bolts and things.  I ordered a AXA - 100 tool post set for my 13 inch lathe and love it.  Smithy also has a GREAT technical assistance team that goes above and beyond to help with any "Problems".:thumbzup:


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## mirage100 (Jan 25, 2014)

I looked at the Aloris and they look GREAT. I really like the one that holds 4 bits. This is a hobby for me so I will go with something a little bit more econimical.


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## Walltoddj (Jan 25, 2014)

While I was in the shop I got the name for the other QCTP my D40 is Dorian  http://www.doriantool.com/
If I remember right they are interchangeable.

Todd


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## mirage100 (Jan 25, 2014)

Walltoddj said:


> While I was in the shop I got the name for the other QCTP my D40 is Dorian  http://www.doriantool.com/
> If I remember right they are interchangeable.
> 
> Todd



Thanks for all the info. This stuff is way out of my league


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## xalky (Jan 25, 2014)

mirage100 said:


> Thanks for all the info. This stuff is way out of my league


 Get on Ebay and buy a Chinese one. They're fine. For about $100, you'll get the QCTP and  4-5 holders. The Chinese ones are fine for us hobby guys. Discounttool on Ebay. Which is Shars. They have decent stuff at a great price. You'll be in heaven with a QCTP. Thats the first thing i did when I got my SB9 lathe a few years back. 

Marcel


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## Terrywerm (Jan 25, 2014)

I agree with Marcel, I think you'll be happy with a Shars QCTP setup. If you were using your lathe all day long for commercial purposes, I could see going with an Aloris or Dorian, but for hobby use you will be quite happy with a Shars or a Phase II.  Then if you need more tool holders, try cdcotools.com, you can get them there individually for ten to fifteen dollars a piece.


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## ScrapMetal (Jan 25, 2014)

Another source, who I've dealt with and consider one of the better options, is Tools4cheap.net - http://www.tools4cheap.net/proddetail.php?prod=wedge  It's still Chinese import but he stands behind his products and seems to be able to get the "pick of the litter" on the imports.

-Ron


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## Walltoddj (Jan 25, 2014)

mirage100 said:


> Thanks for all the info. This stuff is way out of my league



I understand I gave that to you because they show the tool with dimensions so you can figure which is the best size for you to use. I've got mine because they came with my lathe so why buy new one I just buy holders.

Todd


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## d.brown (Jan 25, 2014)

mirage100 said:


> I looked at the Aloris and they look GREAT. I really like the one that holds 4 bits. This is a hobby for me so I will go with something a little bit more econimical.



Start watching ebay for a used KDK 100 series. Made in the US & every bit the quality of Aloris. I prefer it because it doesn't have that long clunky handle. Unfortunately KDK recently closed their doors due to  unfair competition of Chinese knock offs of their products.

David


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## george wilson (Jan 26, 2014)

As Wermie says,a size A or possibly a B size tool post will fit your 10" lathe. The piston type is always cheaper. The wedge type is better,but for the size and power of your lathe,the piston type will be far stronger than you need. Unless you are trying to make money mass producing lots of the same parts,don't worry about repeatability. And,if you are,you should be using a CNC anyway.

The wedge type tool post sucks the tool holder toward itself. Then,the wedge,dovetail surfaces jam tightly together,but,the flat surfaces on either side of the tool holder such up tight against the tool holder. All the surfaces are in tight contact with the holder. The piston type pushes the tool holder away from the tool post,so only the dovetailed surfaces are in tight contact. It is less rigid,but your lathe is not powerful enough to cause appreciable flexing of the tool holder.

I was stubborn for years,thinking the old lantern type tool post was more able to get tools into various corners,etc. I even made a hardened,very nice lantern type post for my 16" lathe. Lapped the threads in. No slop at all.

But,when a used Aloris came along,I got it and a bunch of holders from a company that went out of business. The improvement in rigidity was huge!! I never use a lantern type at all any more. You will not look back either.

Dropping on a pre adjusted tool that is set for the perfect height is so much faster than diddling with a lantern type,OR those 4 position blocks that import lathes seem to come with (I use a lot more than 4 tools!). You have to shim those up to height,too.


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## mirage100 (Jan 26, 2014)

Thanks guys yall have been a HUGE help. Going to check ebay  just to see if I can grab a USA made holder. Then to the Chinese made ones. I looked at the Grizzlys one and was wondering if they are any better than the Shars . They want a lot more money for them.


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## Ray C (Jan 26, 2014)

Many of these things are made at the same factories in China and re-branded with the names of different distributors.  Trust me on this, I have a lot of first-hand knowledge about importing from China with specific information about several of the tool industries.


That said, the house brand from Jeff at www.tools4cheap.net is my hands-down favorite.  Others have mentioned getting additional holders from CDCO or Shars...  They are OK but not great.  The ones from Jeff are full-length and support the bit better.


Ray




mirage100 said:


> Thanks guys yall have been a HUGE help. Going to check ebay  just to see if I can grab a USA made holder. Then to the Chinese made ones. I looked at the Grizzlys one and was wondering if they are any better than the Shars . They want a lot more money for them.


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## mirage100 (Jan 26, 2014)

Ray C said:


> Many of these things are made at the same factories in China and re-branded with the names of different distributors.  Trust me on this, I have a lot of first-hand knowledge about importing from China with specific information about several of the tool industries.
> 
> 
> That said, the house brand from Jeff at www.tools4cheap.net is my hands-down favorite.  Others have mentioned getting additional holders from CDCO or Shars...  They are OK but not great.  The ones from Jeff are full-length and support the bit better.
> ...



Thats just what I needed to know. Thank you


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## kd4gij (Jan 26, 2014)

I agree toolsfor cheap is a grait guy to deal with and he stands behind hs product and as said seams to have the best of the inports.


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## DAN_IN_MN (Jan 26, 2014)

OP

I too have the same tool post you have and got tired of shimming cutters to height and to get them angled.  I want a tool post like you're asking about but don't have the money for it.  This was my answer.  It works well.  Just make sure there's enough screw in the bottom so the threads hold.  I haven't done any heavy cutting with it either just lite cuts.  I probably would have to shim a cutter if I got something that needed heavier cutting.

I use a ball end allen wrench to adjust the screws.





Here's my thread on it.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/17243-Tool-post-modification


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## Ray C (Jan 26, 2014)

Do realize there are brands like Dorian and Aloris which I believe are made in the USA -at least they used to be; I don't know if they still are.  Anyhow, those were the original versions of those tools.  The patent is long expired and good quality copies are made by others -and this is the nature of the game when it comes to patents...


Ray



mirage100 said:


> Thats just what I needed to know. Thank you


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## mirage100 (Jan 26, 2014)

Went to tool for cheep to order the 100 series tool post holder but they are out of them. They have the 200 series that fits a 10 to 15 in swing . Mine is a South Bend tool room 10L. Do yall think the 200 is to big for my lathe. Sorry for all the questions just want to get it right the frist time for once.


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## Ray C (Jan 26, 2014)

My guess is that the AXA is the ideal size.  I do not have a SB 10" lathe but, had a different 10" lathe and the AXA was perfect.  A BXA on a 10" lathe is like using a 50 BMG to shoot a deer at 25 yards.   I now have a modern 12" lathe and still feel the AXA is a perfectly suitable size and I often switch back/forth between AXA and BXA.


Ray





mirage100 said:


> Went to tool for cheep to order the 100 series tool post holder but they are out of them. They have the 200 series that fits a 10 to 15 in swing . Mine is a South Bend tool room 10L. Do yall think the 200 is to big for my lathe. Sorry for all the questions just want to get it right the frist time for once.


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## xalky (Jan 26, 2014)

I've ordered a few things from this place before, I've been satisfied. They have the AXA wedge style set for $125. http://www.ebay.com/itm/AXA-WEDGE-T...4?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item1e862c6f28

Marcel


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## jfcayron (Jan 26, 2014)

ScrapMetal said:


> Tools4cheap.net - http://www.tools4cheap.net/proddetail.php?prod=wedge  It's still Chinese import but he stands behind his products and seems to be able to get the "pick of the litter" on the imports.


I've got their BXA QCTP kit (you will need the AXA for your lathe) and I am very pleased with it.


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## Terrywerm (Jan 26, 2014)

You might find that the BXA sits a little too high for your lathe, as the larger tool posts are designed for larger lathes with bigger swing. So, measure the distance from the top of your compound to the center of your spindle, then check with the vendor to see if the BXA will work with that distance or not. On the other hand, even if they are out of the AXA right now, you might want to ask how long  it will be before they expect to have some in stock.


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## d.brown (Jan 27, 2014)

Ray C said:


> The patent is long expired and good quality copies are made by others -and this is the nature of the game when it comes to patents.



The theft of intellectual property occurs long before patents expire. KDK has been in business since sometime in the 50's is/was considered the industry standard & originator of the qctp. Those venerable old line companies are falling one by one & their lines are being replaced by identical (quality not withstanding) products. With tooling, I buy new if I can afford it, used if I can't but never Chinese.


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## John Hasler (Jan 27, 2014)

d.brown said:


> The theft of intellectual property occurs long before patents expire.



Infringement, not theft.  It is not possible to steal an intangible statutory right.  There is nothing to there that one can be deprived of possession of.


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## Fabrickator (Jan 27, 2014)

I have a GO602 10" X 22" and I bought a Phase II AXA 100 from Enco.  If you watch Enco, they will sometimes have a 20% deal day/catalog and that will take away some of the sting on a large purchase.  As Wermie already said, the Phase II is probably your best bet for the price and your needs as a hobbyist.  I bought the wedge type and have been completely happy with it for years now.  I also purchased an extra tool holder (reasonably priced, as opposed to Aloris or other Cadillac brands) to minimize changing heights between tool bit sizes.

I keep 2 holders set for 1/2" tools and 2 set for 1/4" tools for smaller/tighter work.  I primarily use HSS because it's easy to shape and keep sharp, and it cost a lot less.  It also provides a better finish on most of the material I work with.  I keep 2 lefts, 2 rights and 2 center cuts for each size, and I keep a couple of spare blanks for the occasional custom application.  I've got a bunch of carbide stuff too, but find I that I just don't use it.


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## d.brown (Jan 27, 2014)

John Hasler said:


> Infringement, not theft.  It is not possible to steal an intangible statutory right.  There is nothing to there that one can be deprived of possession of.



That's splitting hairs. A design & all that entails is tangible.


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## John Hasler (Jan 27, 2014)

d.brown said:


> That's splitting hairs. A design & all that entails is tangible.



You can't touch an idea.  It is an established principle in US law that patent or copyright infringement is not theft.  Patent infringement is never a crime at all: just a tort.


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## GK1918 (Jan 27, 2014)

One day few yrs ago I needed some end mills.   So I ran over to Wholesale Tools (on my street).  Odd enough a big sale going on, so I couldnt
resist a AXA complete kit for like 70 bucks. I know its china and a piston.  Nothing to lose.  Nowing me I covered up made in China with tape. 
My thought was If I like the thing I'd buy a real one.  Till this day its still there and we really use this lathe.  I got no complaints.  And low in behold
the sale was because they were closing the place.  What a shame only place around to buy HSS blanks put in a bag and weigh it end mills too.
bins of drip oilers 5 bucks.   What I'm trying to say is like > putting synthetic oil or radial tires on a Model T aint going to make it run better.
In conclusion dont throw the lantern away or what you now have,   some day it will have a place.

edit;   If you do go quick change you will have to modify the Tee nut they are usually are universal that has to be tweeked.  
hope this help ya    I am satisfied ...


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## d.brown (Jan 27, 2014)

John Hasler said:


> You can't touch an idea.  It is an established principle in US law that patent or copyright infringement is not theft.  Patent infringement is never a crime at all: just a tort.




 Again, splitting hairs. You can't touch an idea but you can touch an existing product. At the point you reverse engineer an existing product, reproduce it exactly (quality not withstanding) & sell it as your own, then a theft has occurred. Why it is not prosecuted as such is beyond me. A US company would receive a cease & desist order from the company lawyers so fast it would make their heads swim if they adopted the above described business model.


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## Tony Wells (Jan 27, 2014)

Guys, it would be best if an argument about patent law not develop ANY further. Not on topic, and violates our ToS.


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## swatson144 (Jan 27, 2014)

John Hasler said:


> You can't touch an idea.  It is an established principle in US law that patent or copyright infringement is not theft.  Patent infringement is never a crime at all: just a tort.



It is well understood in our agreement to participate in this forum that we will respect © and patents. You may feel differently but we have that policy. 

Thanks 
         Steve


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## mirage100 (Feb 1, 2014)

It is funny how thing work out. I went over to a friends shop to get something and told him about QCTP deal . He had a friend give him a brand new one for his small lathe. He had not messed with it yet. We checked it out and it was to big for his lathe it is a 8in swing. The QCTP is a BXA. So I took it home and put it on my southbend 10L and so far so good. I ordered him a AXA QCTP for his lathe. Thanks for ALL THE HELP. Now I need info on the QCTH for my Bridgeport but I will start another Thread about that.


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