# Drum switch ... does this sound correct??



## Mister Ed (May 7, 2014)

Ok I also have a drum switch question. Mine is a Furnas. I cannot read the model, but verified with a meter that it works as below.


I am wiring this to a new Grizzly G2528 1/2hp motor on my old Logan Lathe. Currently wiring 110. Drum switch is serviceable, but was not hooked up to original motor (at least since I have had the lathe).
The wiring for this motor is below. 



I have had a heck of a time figuring this out. But I think I have it, does this sound correct??
Black from 110v power to terminal 5.
Jumper terminal 5 to terminal 3.
Terminal 6 to motor Wt/BK. 
Terminal 4 to motor BL6
White from 110v power to terminal 2.
Also, Terminal 2 to motor Rd/Yl.
Terminal 1 to BL5.
If rotation is backwards vs switch ... swop BL5 & BL6.

This should work to reverse the rotation (I think), however is it kosher to have the white from power cord on the same terminal as the Rd/Yl to motor? Obviously due to them being on the same terminal, the Rd/Yl will always be "live" ... even with drum switch off. I will actually have a separate on/off switch (with panic button) mounted between plug and drum switch ... so maybe this is not an issue.

Is there a better way to do this?

As always ... thanks for the response,
Ed


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## Terrywerm (May 8, 2014)

I don't know if it is better or not, but I just posted what I did in another thread on a similar subject. Since I have the file uploaded, I can include it here just as easily. 

View attachment MillWiring.pdf



I had a heck of a time getting mine figured out as well. When I got the mill, the motor was on it, the wires were hanging out, the connections were all messed up, but if plugged in it would run only in the forward direction. It didn't take me too long to figure out a solution, and the pdf shows what I came up with. It works just fine, but if you switch from forward to reverse without letting the motor stop first, it will just keep running in the forward direction. That is a problem that is inherent with single phase motors, not with the way it is wired to the switch. That's what I've been told anyway.


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## Mister Ed (May 8, 2014)

Thanks Terry.

The jumper on the switch and having the neutral running right to the motor would be somewhat similar to what I am thinking (but my neutral and wire to motor are connected at terminal 2).

Looks like you have 8 wires in the motor vs my 6 (I'll really only have 4 coming to the switch, including neutral).  So in forward your red and blue are not live? OR is one feeding the other? And then in reverse, the blue and black are dead? Or maybe the blue has power coming back from the motor?

Different motor set up for sure. All I have to do is reverse the two blue wires to change the rotation. But if yours works, it works.

And I believe you are 100% correct on changing direction. I'm a little leery on that anyway, with the threaded chucks on the Logans (which is why I never messed with the switch before).


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## Terrywerm (May 8, 2014)

With mine the red and blue are connected in forward, and the black is connected to line voltage.  In reverse, the red is connected to line voltage and the black is connected to the blue. 

The blue wire, which connects to terminal #4 on the motor is just a piece of wire that I had and made use of. It's color means nothing. On my motor, the red and black wires are just like your two blue wires. They are the two that needed to be switched to get reverse, according to the motor manufacturer's information. The white and yellow motor leads always get connected to line voltage, and  the yellow/black wire always connects to neutral.

To have the neutral switched would require one more pole in the switch, thus the reason that the neutral is wired direct to the motor.

I have not yet installed a drum switch on my lathe, nor do I intend to. Instant on in reverse scares me a bit, I don't want to end up with a chuck in my lap on short notice. I do plan to put a 3 phase motor and a VFD on the lathe at some point in the not too distant future, and eventually on my mill also. Having reverse on the lathe would be nice, but the soft start capabilities that are included with a VFD should circumvent most problems with the chuck coming loose in reverse.


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## Mister Ed (May 8, 2014)

Ahh ... makes more sense now. I was thinking the red & blue on yours were the ones needing switched. So, yours is set up the same as what I described above ... except you have an additional wire from your motor. I'm guessin gon yours that motor terminal 4 probably is connected to terminal #1 someplace in teh motor. In that case, my set uo would actually match what you have.

I'll give it a whirl tonight.

Thanks again,
Ed


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## hermetic (May 8, 2014)

Take the neutral wire straight to the neutral connection in the motor. Take the live(hot) and connect it to 5 on the switch, take a wire from 6 on the switch to the live(hot) connection on the motor. Disconnect the two blue wires( the "switch to reverse" pair) from the wire nuts, extend them to the reversing switch and connect them to 1 and 4. take two wires from 2 and 3 to the motor and connect them to the wirenuts you just removed the blue wires from. this way, 5 and 6 will break the live(hot) line to switch off, and the reversing part of the switch will swap the connections on the start winding to provide forward and reverse. if forward and reverse are the wrong way round on the switch, swap over the wires on 1 and 4 in the switch.
Phil
UK


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## Mister Ed (May 8, 2014)

hermetic said:


> Take the neutral wire straight to the neutral connection in the motor. Take the live(hot) and connect it to 5 on the switch, take a wire from 6 on the switch to the live(hot) connection on the motor. Disconnect the two blue wires( the "switch to reverse" pair) from the wire nuts, extend them to the reversing switch and connect them to 1 and 4. take two wires from 2 and 3 to the motor and connect them to the wirenuts you just removed the blue wires from. this way, 5 and 6 will break the live(hot) line to switch off, and the reversing part of the switch will swap the connections on the start winding to provide forward and reverse. if forward and reverse are the wrong way round on the switch, swap over the wires on 1 and 4 in the switch.
> Phil
> UK


If you draw it out, you are essentially saying what I first said. Except instead of jumping switch 5 to 3, you are running to the motor and back to switch, and instead of putting the neutral on the switch and running a wire to the motor ... your going to the motor and then back to switch. 2 extra wires if I count right.

But, thanks as it does validate what I was thinking.


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## hermetic (May 9, 2014)

Yes, I just re read it and you're right, I couldn't fully comprehend the description, so I worked through it and found a way that I could show would work. I assume the reversing switch has an off position as well. On systems like this you should stop the motor and brake it to a stop before reversing. Going straight from forward into reverse is not good for the motor windings. Have you got it done and running yet? Does the machines feed cable go into the motor or the switch? My wiring assumed it went to the motor. Hope it worked ok.
Phi,l UK


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## Mister Ed (May 9, 2014)

hermetic said:


> Does the machines feed cable go into the motor or the switch? My wiring assumed it went to the motor. Hope it worked ok.
> Phi,l UK


Now that you mention it ... that is the difference. I am going power>switch>motor. Got side tracked last evening, maybe this weekend I'll have a little time.

Again, thanks for the confirmation.


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## Sheldon0 (May 20, 2016)

hermetic said:


> Take the neutral wire straight to the neutral connection in the motor. Take the live(hot) and connect it to 5 on the switch, take a wire from 6 on the switch to the live(hot) connection on the motor. Disconnect the two blue wires( the "switch to reverse" pair) from the wire nuts, extend them to the reversing switch and connect them to 1 and 4. take two wires from 2 and 3 to the motor and connect them to the wirenuts you just removed the blue wires from. this way, 5 and 6 will break the live(hot) line to switch off, and the reversing part of the switch will swap the connections on the start winding to provide forward and reverse. if forward and reverse are the wrong way round on the switch, swap over the wires on 1 and 4 in the switch.
> Phil
> UK




I almost got this. I just got confused when you said take two wires from 2 and 3 to the motor and connect them to the wirenuts you just removed the blue wires from.  Is there any way you could draw a simplified schematic I have the exact same set up that I'm trying to hook up. 

Your help would be greatly appreciated. 

Francois


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## hermetic (May 25, 2016)

Hi Francois, I am back, I will re read the thread and post again, unless you are sorted?


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## Sheldon0 (May 25, 2016)

After exhausting research and re-reading your answer to the thread several times I figured it out. Works out great. I do have to say that the original motor only had 4 wires and no jumper on the switch. God only knows how that worked. I couldn't have figured that out without your response to that thread. Thanks.


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## hermetic (May 26, 2016)

Well done, glad you got it sorted!


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## Xnerd (Aug 10, 2016)

I really need some help regarding this topic 
I have told Logan machines what is a 1821 but the lathe that I choose to use everyday is a 1946 820. It's flawless and I just love it.

I am totally and utterly lost when it comes to hiring this motor no looking at the schematic I could wire it to a plug plug it in and have is properly to the drum switch if I look up a fifties images they are the same connection layout that my trim switch has. I will add some images at the bottom that'll help. For now I just want to hook it up to standard 115-volt service because I have to go buy everything to run a new 220 into my shop area I do not want to put it on the same 220 line is my Mill is on because they often are running at the same time. At any rate I don't know why I'm having such a hard time fathoming what I need to do I just purchased a brand Leeson 1 horsepower motor for the Logan. The only thing I know is what controls forward and reverse is T5 T8. 


I'm going to post some images please help me someone I'm just this is like a Rubik's Cube to me I can't rationalize how to arrange these connections for some reason 

, I uploaded a PDF that shows my Motors wiring guide my God this is so embarrassing for me but I really need help


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## hermetic (Aug 11, 2016)

I can do this but I need a schematic of the reversing switch as well. On the wiring diagram, low voltage puts the two run windings in series, high voltage puts then in parallel. As you rightly say, you change direction by swapping the polarity of the start winding, so you need to arrange the forward/reverse switch to swap T5 and T8 over. I assume the reversing switch has a centre off position. Incidentally, it is immaterial , but I do not recognise the symbol to the left of the thermal trip at the top of the drawing, just under the letter L in "Line"  Anyone enlighten me?
Phil


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## ddickey (Aug 11, 2016)

Because your switch my not require  jumper.


Sheldon0 said:


> After exhausting research and re-reading your answer to the thread several times I figured it out. Works out great. I do have to say that the original motor only had 4 wires and no jumper on the switch. God only knows how that worked. I couldn't have figured that out without your response to that thread. Thanks.


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## Xnerd (Aug 11, 2016)

Jesus messed this post up


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## Ulma Doctor (Aug 11, 2016)

hermetic said:


> I can do this but I need a schematic of the reversing switch as well. On the wiring diagram, low voltage puts the two run windings in series, high voltage puts then in parallel. As you rightly say, you change direction by swapping the polarity of the start winding, so you need to arrange the forward/reverse switch to swap T5 and T8 over. I assume the reversing switch has a centre off position. Incidentally, it is immaterial , but I do not recognise the symbol to the left of the thermal trip at the top of the drawing, just under the letter L in "Line"  Anyone enlighten me?
> Phil


Hi Phil,
it appears to be a drawn in picture of a crimp connector



or, possibly the reset switch for the thermal protection device.


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## Xnerd (Aug 11, 2016)

Is this close?  I found this in another thread and it looks close I'm not sure about the jumper though everytime I think I'm understanding what's going on I get confused it's really ridiculous I should have this down it's only a few wires for Christ's sake my wiring doesn't seem to show t1 I have P1 and P2
This is where some of my confusion is

And thank you for taking the time to help me I appreciate it completely


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## ddickey (Aug 11, 2016)

Low voltage is in parallel and high voltage is in series.


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## Xnerd (Aug 12, 2016)

Ulma Doctor said:


> Hi Phil,
> it appears to be a drawn in picture of a crimp connector
> 
> 
> ...


yes this is correct a crimp connector


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## hermetic (Aug 12, 2016)

Thaqnks Ddickey, that is of course exactly what I meant!!


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## Xnerd (Aug 12, 2016)

Is a note I just got off the phone with Leeson motor technical support oh my God what a joke that was. They did not understand what hooking up to a drum switch mint all he did was send me a PDF of the wiring layout which I already had...
They sure take your money when you want to buy one though


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## hermetic (Aug 12, 2016)

Yes ulmadeoc, it does look like one, and I can find no similar item in the USA list of schematic symbols, so I guess yer right


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## Xnerd (Aug 12, 2016)

Total 6 s wiring the motor is seized in the hand drawn image above. Except for I hit the shield P2 which I don't understand I don't know what P2 does. I think it might have something to do with it thermal protection reset. Does anyone have any opinions on this looking at the schematics?


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## Xnerd (Aug 12, 2016)

I had thought that I already posted this message but I don't see it so here goes again please forgive me if this is a duplicate.

I was able to get everything running normally switching correctly perfect no problems the problem that I'm having is that I am unable to figure out where to put P2. P 2 to be isolated from P1 correct on the other end of the coil? Maybe I just need to step back and look at it again but if I sealed it and don't use it everything runs perfectly I think he too is for thermal protection reset? Is it a good assumption?

Oh yeah if you look up at that hand drawn pencil schematic I followed that including P1 at the bottom right terminal with L1


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## ddickey (Aug 12, 2016)

What color is the wire?


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## ddickey (Aug 12, 2016)

P2 is connected with T8 &T3, no?


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## Xnerd (Aug 12, 2016)

Ok this is how i wired it.would it make sense for 02 to where indicated?


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## Xnerd (Aug 12, 2016)

ddickey said:


> P2 is connected with T8 &T3, no?


No p2 is not connected at all.  I blow a breaker if I try it with 8 and 3
and my wires are not color coded.  they are marked with T#... I can look up the color code if you wish


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## Xnerd (Aug 13, 2016)

Actually I drew that wrong 3 + 8 are linked together the top-right terminal it doesn't matter I'm through with it I'm so ******* ****** right now I can't stand it if I run it reverse for more than 10 seconds it pops the circuit it runs fine in forward I'm so bad I just want to take a sledgehammer to it

I want to know what the hell is wrong with these motor manufacturers they know there's going to be three or four lawyers group together in this tiny compartment you know they're going to use big wire nuts it's just archaic technology it needs a panel


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## Xnerd (Aug 13, 2016)

Unexpected problems arose if I run it in reverse for more than 10 seconds it blows the circuit breaker

I am at loss to explain this. I don't think you would have anything to do to be shielding P2


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## Xnerd (Aug 13, 2016)

I'm starting to believe that this switch is not acceptable for this motor of course I would buy the one motor on the planet that isn't compatible with this common switch I have to get this later running I'm losing my mind so frustrating so close I can run it all day and forward but as soon as I throw it in reverse you can hear the extra drain and then 5 seconds later it blows the circuit can't figure it out at all


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## 4GSR (Aug 13, 2016)

Take P1 and P2 completely out of the circuit.  Do not connect to anything.  Now, try to run it in reverse.  P1 and P2 is normally a thermal overload to protect the motor from over heating and shorting out.  For the limited time of operation of your lathe it should not be an issue needing it.


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## Xnerd (Aug 13, 2016)

4gsr said:


> Take P1 and P2 completely out of the circuit.  Do not connect to anything.  Now, try to run it in reverse.  P1 and P2 is normally a thermal overload to protect the motor from over heating and shorting out.  For the limited time of operation of your lathe it should not be an issue needing it.


That was my thinking as well I took them out the motor just hums it won't go forward or reverse without one of them or both of them hooked up so frustrating I'm so close


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## 4GSR (Aug 13, 2016)

OK.  What voltage are you trying to run the motor off of?

I'm trying to study the wiring diagrams at the moment.


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## Xnerd (Aug 13, 2016)

4gsr said:


> OK.  What voltage are you trying to run the motor off of?
> 
> I'm trying to study the wiring diagrams at the moment.


110v     and the diagram that I did was wrong the T3 should be over with the t8 I believe that it will look again


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## 4GSR (Aug 13, 2016)

that would be correct for clockwise rotation.


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## Xnerd (Aug 13, 2016)

Maybe that's the problem maybe I have to move T3 back to the top-left contact?


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## 4GSR (Aug 13, 2016)

Hang tight, I drawing up a diagram.  Post in a bit. Ken


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## 4GSR (Aug 13, 2016)

OK, I see your problem.   I your post #29, move wire 8 or T8 from upper right hand terminal, term. 2, directly over to upper left terminal, term. 1.  That should fix the blowing the breaker when reversing.  Ken

Stop. don't do anything yet.  You have much more wrong than switching T8 wire.  Your other connections are on opposite sides of the jumpers.  Let me scan my sketch so you can look at it.

KEn


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## 4GSR (Aug 13, 2016)

Here's my wiring diagram.  Not the greatest but should work, Ken


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## Xnerd (Aug 13, 2016)

Wow thank you very much man I will have to do this tomorrow as I have some obligations right now.

That's absolutely awesome of you thank you so much I'll start working on it tomorrow and let you know how it turns out


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## Xnerd (Aug 13, 2016)

Understand I keep on posting and it doesn't show up I wanted to thank you you don't know how much I appreciate this I will try and do this first thing in the morning

I don't know if anybody else has experienced this issue with posts disappearing on me I'm just hoping that they're not duplicating now

I'm so crossing my fingers that this will work thank you very much I really thought I was on the right track is I got it running

I'll let you know tomorrow


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## Xnerd (Aug 14, 2016)

4gsr said:


> Here's my wiring diagram.  Not the greatest but should work, Ken


Okay so I wired it up it runs fine in forward but it just sits and hums in reverse. 
I triple checked all my wiring and it's all spot on so I don't know what to do now God this is so frustrating


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## Xnerd (Aug 14, 2016)

4gsr said:


> Here's my wiring diagram.  Not the greatest but should work, Ken


It seems as though 8 + 5 are both side the same leg when you switch it to "reverse" 

Either that or I'm losing my mind


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## Xnerd (Aug 14, 2016)

4gsr said:


> Here's my wiring diagram.  Not the greatest but should work, Ken


ok so it works flawlessly if i move t8  back over to the top right connection.   that gets it out of the t5s way
i ran it in both forward and reverse for 5 minutes each with no trouble


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## 4GSR (Aug 14, 2016)

If you look at my diagram closely,  8 and 5  are separate from each other.  Took me a while to figure that one out. And also the one terminal that does get any wires attached to, too.  I'm used to wiring them up for 3-phase service. Your jumper is what was throwing me off as well as which side you had L1 on.  But I'm glad you it running right.  Ken


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