# Should I buy this Model A Precision?



## IHateMayonnaise (Apr 18, 2021)

Howdy Folks,

I've been itching to get a lathe for about 5 years now, I've been a mill guy for a while and have been waiting on a good deal on a smaller lathe in decent condition to get my feet wet. This is a craigslist find for an estate sale that is happening this coming Friday (April 23rd) and until then they are taking offers on the unit, starting at $800. I suspect that this is going to be going for quite a bit more than that, however, and the question is how much is reasonable to go up to. 

All I know about the lath is this: It's a "Model A Precision," and is very well maintained. The guy who owned it was an engineer, and from what I can tell from the rest of the items from the sale, he loved his equipment and spent lots of time making sure that they were up to snuff. 

I'm not made of money, but I'm especially turned on by the fact that it seems as though I won't need to spend much (or any) time getting this thing to do what I want it to do. Does anyone have any guidance/reference points that they could lend me to help me make a decision on a max price? Literally any help would be deeply appreciated. Thanks folks!

Cheers,
IHateMayonnaise


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## DavidR8 (Apr 18, 2021)

That looks like a decent machine, I see milling attachment and steadyrest on the shelf underneath. A lathe like that here in good shape would easily fetch $1500. No idea what the market is like in your area though.


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## T Bredehoft (Apr 18, 2021)

I concur with David, that lathe is considerably more than most it's size, given the gearing. And all the rest, too.  I don't think you would be hurt at $2000. If I were bidding and wanted a small lathe, I'd bid to win.

Edit:  It appears to have a quick change tool post, but no tool holders showing, I'd get them chased down, too.


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## IHateMayonnaise (Apr 18, 2021)

Thanks folks!

Can you guys tell if this is a 9" or a 10"?


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## DavidR8 (Apr 18, 2021)

Yup, make sure to look through that Husky box for tooling!


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## DavidR8 (Apr 18, 2021)

IHateMayonnaise said:


> Thanks folks!
> 
> Can you guys tell if this is a 9" or a 10"?


Loiks  like a 9A to me. Probably a 48" or longer bed. Note that the bed length is measured end to end.


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## Manual Mac (Apr 18, 2021)

My guess from the looks it is a 9”


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## Weldingrod1 (Apr 18, 2021)

The row of oil jugs is a very good sign!

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## ShagDog (Apr 18, 2021)

If the guy that owned it was the original owner, it may be worth quite a bit, especially based on your description of condition. I would run over there to inspect it, if that is an option.


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## SLK001 (Apr 18, 2021)

From the looks of the tail stock and everything else, it is 99% a 9" lathe.  Better pictures will help confirm.  Better pictures will also help determine the shape (and value) of it.  If it is in good shape, then $1800 to 2000 is a good price.  Depending on the extras, maybe even more.


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## IHateMayonnaise (Apr 18, 2021)

Thanks everyone for the replies! They will not allow inspection until the sale, which is certainly not ideal. I'm having the company doing the estate sale send some new pictures this week though


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## markba633csi (Apr 18, 2021)

I wouldn't be surprised if it goes for well over 2K.  Auction situations are not conducive to great deals, but if you have the bucks it looks like a good lathe
-Mark


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## martik777 (Apr 19, 2021)

We had about 10 of those 9A's auctioned off from the schools here in the Vancouver BC area, for between $480 and  $900 CAD.  Bids tend to go higher on a single item.  I got the one for $480


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## IHateMayonnaise (Apr 22, 2021)




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## IHateMayonnaise (Apr 22, 2021)

Was finally able to get pictures -- sale is tomorrow morning, they are accepting best offers up until an hour after it starts. Right now I'm the highest bidder, @ $950. Sure it will go MUCH higher than this, I put down my max @ $2k, could go higher. 

Learned some more info about the seller, apparently he dropped dead extremely suddenly, and was in the middle of several projects, but was extremely well organized. All the accessories are included, including the Husky and all the contents. I don't know if it will be under power, but hopefully everything will check out!


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## DavidR8 (Apr 22, 2021)

Wow, fingers crossed for you!


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## Larry$ (Apr 22, 2021)

Considering what it costs in misc. tooling, measuring devices and what else may be in the tool box, it could turn out to be a very good deal.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Apr 22, 2021)

good luck! I'll have my fingers'n'toes crossed - let us know if you got it. And if you didn't we can make some sympathetic noises to cheer you up


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## IHateMayonnaise (Apr 23, 2021)

Thank folks! Does anyone have any thoughts on any things in particular to check out when I see it in person? I've never operated one of these, and am hesitant to move much on the machine even if it's under power until I get my feet under me. If easily accessible, I'll check any gears I can see to ensure there are no broken teeth etc, check the ways and any hint of damage/chipping to the cast iron, etc. Mainly worried about things that are not repairable


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## Cheeseking (Apr 23, 2021)

Couple quick and easy checks without needing tools are-

Run carriage to the headstock, set the lock for slight friction then traverse toward the tailstock. Invariably it will get tighter depending on the degree of wear the bed. Its not a definitive test but a starting point. 
Next check for backlash on the cross slide and compound. Its almost expected that most of these old antique lathes the nuts and screws are worn out. They can be replaced but finding parts could be difficult. Hopefully based on your description of the PO he already took care of those issues.

$1,500 - 2000 seems fair but there are so many factors involved not the least of which is availability. At some point life is passing by so don’t sweat woulda coulda +/- $500 and have to wait another 5 years.
Go get it and be happy!


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## IHateMayonnaise (Apr 23, 2021)

I got it!!


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## IHateMayonnaise (Apr 23, 2021)

You guys are going to hate me....

Got the lathe for $1000. Appeared to be in very good shape, in as far as I can tell. The machine is from 1942 (guy paid Grizzly to get the serial number card, see below). The lathe came with a well-organized notebook with every piece of information he could find, every receipt, contact, notes, everything. Apparently he bought it in 2014 for $1700 (with milling attachment, which came with it), not including the bench or any accessories. The leather belt looks to be in great shape, but didn't try to turn it on. Carriage is smooth, and there doesn't appear to be much wear on the bed that I could tell (hand-tighten nut @ headstock for barely free movement, move towards tailstock). Not a bit of rust ANYWHERE, this guy loved his tools!!

Aside from the lathe being a killer deal, they were getting rid of his other equipment for pennies on the dollar, mostly because they didn't know what most of the stuff was. I got brand new Huot indexes (fractional, number, and letter) for $2 each, for instance. Mostly everyone there was focused on his amassment of guns/ammo, and there was little attention paid to his machinary. In essence, I made out like a bandit, and it's been quite a while since I've done so well at one of these sales. 

Now that you hate me, I need your help: 

I need to make the lathe as light as possible in order to transport it. The bench itself weighs a ton, even with only the lathe on it. I've got a Johnson Bar and some dollies, but moving it is going to require some creativity. I am going to see about renting a truck with a lift gate, however I'm concerned that I won't be able to back it down close enough to help much (driveway is gravel), because the garage is after a bend in the driveway. I've got a new subaru outback and could rent a trailer, however getting it onto the trailer will be quite difficult I imagine, but at least I can park it right at the opening of the garage. 

Here's the other problem: My driveway SUCKS -- it's paved, sure, but is extremely steep and angled at the top (UPS/USPS don't even try going up, if that gives you any indication). When I moved in to my house in October, it took an army of folks and lots of hurt backs to move my equipment in, and I am extremely worried about getting the lathe safely into my garage, while mitigating every possible risk. I can back a trailer up to my garage at the top, but can't go in (not tall enough), so I'll have to unhook it from the hitch and slowly lower it. I've done this before and am confident I can do it again. All this is justification for what I'm about to ask...

I would like to take as many things off from the lathe before moving it to make it easier to transport (and less top heavy). I've already removed the tailstock, and I can remove the 3-jaw chuck when I go back tomorrow. I'm looking to remove things that are possible to put back pretty straightforwardly, however I will say that I am very technologically/mechanically savvy, I just don't know anything about lathes. What I don't want to do is get myself into a pickle due to my ignorance. I'm not thinking of doing anything with the leadscrew, for instance, but I am thinking about the following:

1) Carriage/apron assembly 
2) Motor/pulley assemblies
3) Gearbox
4) Anything in the headstock

I'm eager to hear whether or not any of these are a terrible idea, or if anyone has any advice on best practices/things to watch out for. I have the parts diagrams, which I will be studying this evening to better understand things. I'll see what I can find on the youtubes as well. I think that the best case scenario would be if I could light the lathe enough, I could get it in the back of my car, and just load the bench in the trailer.

Any advice, thoughts, or prayers would be deeply appreciated!

Cheers,
IHateMayonnaise


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## DavidR8 (Apr 23, 2021)

Good for you!
Looks like a stole it! 
You can break it down fairly easily. The headstock can be removed without any fuss.


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## ShagDog (Apr 23, 2021)

Very nice find.


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## IHateMayonnaise (Apr 23, 2021)

Yikes, it seems like removing the gearbox requires removing the leadscrew, which doesn't sound all that exciting: http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/1954-south-bend-rebuild.pdf


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## martik777 (Apr 23, 2021)

There are 1 or 2 allen head set screws that hold the pully to the countershaft, loosen them and punch out the shaft which will allow you to separate the countershaft assembly from the headstock without cutting the belt. If u have to cut it, its easy to get a replacement.

Remove headstock: there are 2 9/16 bolts underneath it, you'll need a short extension bar, may also need to move the banjo and gears to get access to the front bolt, a screw driver and crescent wrench will do.

Remove carriage: Remove leadscrew support near tailstock and simply slide the whole carriage off.

I'd leave the gearbox and leadscrew on, but re-connect the leadscrew support before moving.

Two guys should be able to carry the bed/gearbox fairly easily even with the carriage on.

I was able to transport mine in a 4 door sedan with ease.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Apr 24, 2021)

good for you, congrats! 

For transporting the lathe, 3 words: drop deck trailer. Makes life sooo much easier. Pulled one behind my outback when I got my 6x26 mill, a drill press and a 4x6 bandsaw


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## IHateMayonnaise (Apr 25, 2021)

Success!  It was a lot easier than I thought, and I probably didn't need to disassemble it to the degree that I did, however doing so allowed me a closer look at the innards.

All the gears look good, not a missing tooth to be found. I see some normal wear on the gears (apron in particular). The gasket on the apron is toast, I'm glad I caught this because worm gear sets, in my experience, fail quickly if they don't have a good oil well to simmer in. The half-nuts look pretty good in my opinion, also.

There's enough swarf in the apron assembly to make me really want to take it apart and clean it. I ordered the rebuild kit/manual from Stevew on eBay, I'm eager to get cracking!

To be continued...


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## IHateMayonnaise (Apr 25, 2021)

I did notice that on the motor pully that the collars are modern, and I believe that there are some spacers that are missing, I'll check the parts list to verify. I'm also  missing the cap/spring on the oil plug (see below), anyone know where I can find a replacement? 





The leather belt came apart pretty easily, however I'll have to find a replacement thing that splices them together. The orignial one was plastic, I may be able to get it to work again but I'd prefer to find a more perminant solution. 




It came with two faceplates, the one attached appears to be modern, probably from Grizzly/Shars (manufacturer of 3/4-jaw chucks that came with it).  I assume that the faceplate is pressed in? Doe anyone have any advice on how to remove it? 





There was a gear that came in sealed plastic bag in the toolbox that came with the unit (see two images below). It matches one of the gears on the outside of the gearbox, in that it has the same pitch, and ID, and the fact that it says "20" where the oroginal one that I removed says "40". It is certainly a well-loved gear with some crappy wear, but it meshes decently with the original. What functionality does this gear add, does anyone know? 





One last thing... several years ago I picked up up a bunch of tools from some guy whos brother died, and it came with a strange gizmo that took me a bit of time to figure out what it was because it had no identifiable markings on it that I could easly search: a South Bend micrometer carriage stop (see below). I've known what it was for a while now, but I'm glad I didn't sell it, because it looks like it fits my 9A. What luck!


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## martik777 (Apr 25, 2021)

Mcmaster or ebay for that gits oiler or just make a tapered plug with your new lathe 

The 20T gear is  the normal stud gear. The 40 is only used for 4-7TPI  (see threading plate on gearbox).

Get a 445K6  +/- 1 inch serpentine belt to replace that noisy old joined belt

There appears to be a fair amount of wear and a ridge on your front ways, hopefully it won't affect your accuracy too much.


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## IHateMayonnaise (Apr 25, 2021)

martik777 said:


> Mcmaster or ebay for that gits oiler or just make a tapered plug with your new lathe
> 
> The 20T gear is  the normal stud gear. The 40 is only used for 4-7TPI  (see threading plate on gearbox).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip on the belt, I'll get one of those for sure. 

Which pic did you see the wear you spoke of on?


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## martik777 (Apr 25, 2021)

IHateMayonnaise said:


> Thanks for the tip on the belt, I'll get one of those for sure.
> 
> Which pic did you see the wear you spoke of on?


110804 and 163851
you should be able to feel the ridge with your fingernail


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## LucknowKen (Apr 26, 2021)

IHateMayonnaise said:


> I did notice that on the motor pully that the collars are modern, and I believe that there are some spacers that are missing, I'll check the parts list to verify. I'm also  missing the cap/spring on the oil plug (see below), anyone know where I can find a replacement?


The large pulley on the counter shaft may not be original.
Look for a two step flat pulley. The motor pulley as well.
A rubber cap works fine on the gits....Bleeder screw caps work well.


IHateMayonnaise said:


> The leather belt came apart pretty easily, however I'll have to find a replacement thing that splices them together. The orignial one was plastic, I may be able to get it to work again but I'd prefer to find a more perminant solution.


That leather belt looks fine, just a little dirty. The steel laces are meshed together with plastic.
I use an aluminum nail or other soft metal then tape over the lace to quiet the belt.
I have some boxes of bulldog laces that are supplied with cut to length plastic stip.
The serpentine belt is the best but requires spindle and counter shaft disassembly.


IHateMayonnaise said:


> It came with two faceplates, the one attached appears to be modern, probably from Grizzly/Shars (manufacturer of 3/4-jaw chucks that came with it).  I assume that the faceplate is pressed in? Doe anyone have any advice on how to remove it?


Did you solve this?


IHateMayonnaise said:


> a strange gizmo that took me a bit of time to figure out what it was because it had no identifiable markings on it that I could easly search: a South Bend micrometer carriage stop (see below). I've known what it was for a while now, but I'm glad I didn't sell it, because it looks like it fits my 9A. What luck!


Good score on the micrometer carriage stop. They are pricey. So is every other accessory.
The milling vise is a huge bonus. Interesting steady rest, would like to see a picture of it.
You should be proud to have such a classic machine.


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## IHateMayonnaise (Apr 26, 2021)

martik777 said:


> 110804 and 163851
> you should be able to feel the ridge with your fingernail


You mean longitudinal groove/ridges (along axis of lathe)? Presumably caused by burrs on carriage. I don't think I'm up to hand-scraping the ways, as I don't have a reference flat nearly long enough. I'll check the mating surfaces to make sure whatever caused it to happen is mitigated by evaluating/fixing with a super-fine arkinsas. Other than this, anything I could (or should) do?


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## IHateMayonnaise (Apr 26, 2021)

LucknowKen said:


> The large pulley on the counter shaft may not be original.
> Look for a two step flat pulley. The motor pulley as well.
> A rubber cap works fine on the gits....Bleeder screw caps work well.


I'm thinking you're right, appears to be aluminum. From my recollection even the pictures from original documentation have this as a V-Belt/pulley, am I wrong? I'll look into getting a replacement, I just want to make sure I'm headed in the right direction. If anyone has an idea of where to source these from modern vendors, I'd be eager to know. I assume the pitch diameter of the pulleys are pretty close to the original, however I have no idea of knowing this. I'll do some digging to see what I can find.



LucknowKen said:


> That leather belt looks fine, just a little dirty. The steel laces are meshed together with plastic.
> I use an aluminum nail or other soft metal then tape over the lace to quiet the belt.
> I have some boxes of bulldog laces that are supplied with cut to length plastic stip.
> The serpentine belt is the best but requires spindle and counter shaft disassembly.


I'll go with the serpentine belt -- I have to disassemble the spindle anyway in order to install new wicks on the bearings.



LucknowKen said:


> Did you solve this?



No didn't try, was too busy trying to discern the purpose of the various mechanisms on the apron. Am I correct in assuming that South Bend never provided any user manuals with their machines? I am an absolute novice to lathes, although I've rebuilt a myriad of other machines. I don't want to risk damaging anything due to my abundant ignorance. Can anyone recommend a good reference for how to use this (or similar) machines? Something that says "in order to do this, you must do that," or "never do this otherwise that will happen" sort of thing. The biggest thing I'm noticing is that in engaging the mesh on the various gears (gearbox, countershaft, apron etc) I often have to offset one of the gears slightly so it can mesh. I don't see any way around this, and I assume this is normal. 



LucknowKen said:


> Good score on the micrometer carriage stop. They are pricey. So is every other accessory.
> The milling vise is a huge bonus. Interesting steady rest, would like to see a picture of it.
> You should be proud to have such a classic machine.



Yes, I'm very proud. This thing has been loved by many, and I'll continue to do so for many (many) years to come. 


General question regarding the reverse mechanism -- should the square screw be tightened completely after changing direction, or should it be loose enough to allow movement when depressing the handle? I'm pretty sure there is a spring missing on the screw. I ask because the handle sticks out of the guard (would think it can be adjusted without opening the guard), however the head of the screw does not. It seems dangerous  for the gears to NOT have it tightened, but what do I know.


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## Weldingrod1 (Apr 26, 2021)

South bend is famous for their "how to run a lathe" book! I think it's got all the details in there... if not, my first lathe was almost identical to yours!

The chuck mounting plate (not really a faceplate) is screwed on the spindle.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Weldingrod1 (Apr 26, 2021)

Reversing: square head screw is tight.

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## LucknowKen (Apr 26, 2021)

IHateMayonnaise said:


> I'm thinking you're right, appears to be aluminum. From my recollection even the pictures from original documentation have this as a V-Belt/pulley, am I wrong? I'll look into getting a replacement, I just want to make sure I'm headed in the right direction. If anyone has an idea of where to source these from modern vendors, I'd be eager to know. I assume the pitch diameter of the pulleys are pretty close to the original, however I have no idea of knowing this. I'll do some digging to see what I can find.


Look for a two step flat (crowned) pulley. The motor pulley is a double vee.
In another thread the belt was a B-40 motor to the counter shaft.
I should have been more specific. All the info you need is here on this forum.








						Useful South Bend Lathe Files
					

Here are some files for South Bend Lathe Owners:




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				





IHateMayonnaise said:


> I'll go with the serpentine belt -- I have to disassemble the spindle anyway in order to install new wicks on the bearings.


A member here started to disassemble his 9A before he realized he needed it running to make some parts for itself.


IHateMayonnaise said:


> All I know about the lath is this: It's a "Model A Precision," and is very well maintained. The guy who owned it was an engineer, and from what I can tell from the rest of the items from the sale, he loved his equipment and spent lots of time making sure that they were up to snuff.
> 
> I'm not made of money, but I'm especially turned on by the fact that it seems as though I won't need to spend much (or any) time getting this thing to do what I want it to do


Sounds like its ready to keep working. Even the felt kit is pricey.
That would just be the beginning. I am not made of money either.
An engineer would never over equip a lathe then not maintain it.
Lathes much older than that one have perfect felts/springs.
You will know once you use it if it needs felts.
You can check the felts on the saddle.
You may be surprised at the condition.
Also, some testing should be done.
Once its apart you will want to paint.....
9As are more fun to work with than work on.


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## martik777 (Apr 26, 2021)

IHateMayonnaise said:


> You mean longitudinal groove/ridges (along axis of lathe)? Presumably caused by burrs on carriage. I don't think I'm up to hand-scraping the ways, as I don't have a reference flat nearly long enough. I'll check the mating surfaces to make sure whatever caused it to happen is mitigated by evaluating/fixing with a super-fine arkinsas. Other than this, anything I could (or should) do?


Yes, on the top of the V-way, would be caused by many years of wear - will also be visible on the bottom of the saddle v-ways. Compare the shape of the V near the tail stock to the V in front of the chuck - it should be obvious. Lightly tighten down the carriage over the wear area, then move the carriage to the unworn area and it should be much harder to move.

Performing a test cut or 2 collar test will indicate how much the wear is affecting your accuracy. Generally this type of wear will result in some taper


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## IHateMayonnaise (Apr 27, 2021)

Looks like a flat-belt step pulley just popped up on eBay, I'll see if I can cross reference to see if it is ideal for my machine


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## LucknowKen (May 6, 2021)

IHateMayonnaise said:


> Looks like a flat-belt step pulley just popped up on eBay, I'll see if I can cross reference to see if it is ideal for my machine


The pulley in your link is expensive.
You may need a pulley for the motor as well.


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