# Question related to Covid19.



## Ken from ontario (Apr 3, 2020)

Does any one have a source to verify the following question:
Could family members who live in septate houses,  go visit each other if both sides have been in isolation for at least two weeks and have no symptom?.


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## Alexander McGilton (Apr 3, 2020)

There will not be a conclusive answer across all jurisdictions. You may well be entering a more strict region and violating their group limits. Quebec bans gatherings of 2 or more people. While Philadelphia Police  said they will no longer make arrests for non-violent offenses during the local coronavirus outbreak.

So if we can split the difference, you can break the rules by meeting whoever you want and however many, and suffer no legal consequences. Right?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mont...given-more-power-to-disperse-groups-1.5506327 








						Philly Police Stopping Non-Violent Crime Arrests Amid Outbreak
					

Suspects will be detained for information gathering then released. An arrest warrant will be issued for them at a later date, police said.




					patch.com


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## DavidR8 (Apr 3, 2020)

Ken from ontario said:


> Does any one have a source to verify the following question:
> Could family members who live in septate houses, go visit each other if both sides have been in isolation for at least two weeks and have no symptom?.



Absolute isolation as in returned from travel?


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## Martin W (Apr 3, 2020)

Hi Ken
An answer to your question . A good one too. I don’t know
We go check on  my in-laws next door to us. We only go in the entrance way and maintain a distance. My wife makes sure we hand sanitze. Not so much for us but my in-laws. Distancing is essential now for at least a couple months.
We are officially shut down working as of tomorrow as per the Premier orders on essential business.
stay safe out there.
 Cheers 
Martin


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## Ken from ontario (Apr 3, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Absolute isolation as in returned from travel?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


no, both sides live in the same city, have been in self isolation for weeks ,  neither side has had visitors or went to work.
 my question was actually after I heard Doctor Gupta on CNN that: if neither side breaks any city ban on travelling , and they both have been in isolation for 2 weeks (w/o any symptoms) , then it's alright to visit , was just wondering  if anyone else has heard or could verify this general question.


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## DavidR8 (Apr 3, 2020)

Logically it makes sense that visiting would be possible. 


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## RJSakowski (Apr 3, 2020)

Ken from ontario said:


> Does any one have a source to verify the following question:
> Could family members who live in septate houses,  go visit each other if both sides have been in isolation for at least two weeks and have no symptom?.



Any social interaction increases the probability of transmission of the virus.   However, if two groups were each in total isolation for more than fourteen days, I would think that the increase in probability would be minimal.  The latest theory, however, is that individuals who show no outward sign of infection can still carry the virus and this is one of the reasons for the rapid increase in cases.

The question to ask is, "am I willing to risk possible exposure to my family members?".  Only you can answer that.


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## Ken from ontario (Apr 3, 2020)

RJSakowski said:


> The latest theory, however, is that individuals who show no outward sign of infection can still carry the virus and this is one of the reasons for the rapid increase in cases.


That's the latest I've heard also, that some individuals can just be carriers of this virus and have no idea they've got it , no symptoms what so ever .


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## DavidR8 (Apr 3, 2020)

Ken from ontario said:


> That's the latest I've heard also, that some individuals can just be carriers of this virus and have no idea they've got it , no symptoms what so ever .



We’re it me I wouldn’t visit. 


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## Ken from ontario (Apr 3, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> We’re it me I wouldn’t visit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree, the only way to know it's relatively safe is if both families have been self isolating for 2-3 weeks and then tested for the virus.
 I sincerely hope testing for this virus will be readily available.


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## francist (Apr 3, 2020)

I agree with David and RJ. There will still be risks present, some we may not even be aware of yet, and for the sake of gathering it would be a heavy price to pay were something to go wrong. I have two sisters here in town with me, we have not and and will not see each other for some time yet. I live alone anyway, not so hard for me, but I understand not all have that resolve. It’s hard for sure.

My street had a social distance event last evening — a neighbour chalked icons on the roadway 10 feet apart and you could come out to chat but you had to stay on your star! Tonight we make some noise and I get to light up my air horns. There’s ways to still be connected.

-frank


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## vocatexas (Apr 3, 2020)

I visited with a cousin of mine yesterday (by phone) who runs the respiratory department of a fairly large hospital about the virus. He said there are still many unknowns about it's ability to survive on surfaces, possible maximum incubation period, etc. He said a lot of the information being given on TV by 'experts' is still just educated guesses. He's of the opinion there is still a lot to learn and not take any chances.


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## Lonnie (Apr 4, 2020)

Maybe take a look into zoom video conferencing. My wives family has been doing it for 2 weeks now and they all seem to enjoy it. I really don't know much about zoom so google would be your friend. It's still not the same as a personal visit but it's much better than just a phone call.


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## Ken from ontario (Apr 4, 2020)

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions, hope this ends sooner than we have anticipated.


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## higgite (Apr 4, 2020)

They are only  testing those with symptoms, so there's no way to know if you have it without symptoms or just don't have it. So, do you never visit anyone ever again for fear that they or you might be a carrier with no symptoms? After 2 weeks of quarantine with no possible exposure to either party and no symptoms, I'd visit, but that's just me. I'm not advising anybody one way or the other. A hobby machinist forum probably isn't the place to be seeking such advice anyway. But, you asked. 

Tom


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## Karl_T (Apr 4, 2020)

Ever here of typhoid Mary?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon

Got to be thousands of asymptomatic carriers out there.


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## middle.road (Apr 4, 2020)

Ken from ontario said:


> Does any one have a source to verify the following question:
> Could family members who live in septate houses,  go visit each other if both sides have been in isolation for at least two weeks and have no symptom?.


The asymptomatic portion is what there are no solid answers for - yet.
Seems that the possibility exists that a person can be a carrier and never show any signs. That's where this virus gets scary.
There are reports of 'carriers' being contagious for over 24 days.

It's a crap shoot, too many unknowns, I vote to err on the side of caution.

The study out of MIT, if it bears out, tosses everything that has been put forth to date. It does not agree with the current WHO/CDC guidelines though.


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## middle.road (Apr 4, 2020)

Lonnie said:


> Maybe take a look into zoom video conferencing. My wives family has been doing it for 2 weeks now and they all seem to enjoy it. I really don't know much about zoom so google would be your friend. It's still not the same as a personal visit but it's much better than just a phone call.


Be very wary of Zoom, in the last 48 hours their security has been called into serious question.
Started coming into my security alerts (4) days ago, then it hit the mainstream news.
Me personally as a Geek - I would not use it.


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## Lonnie (Apr 4, 2020)

I didn't realize there was a major breech in their security. I also see that Zoom said they are working on getting the holes patched. Hopefully they do because it's a great way to "see" the family during this time of crisis. Hackers be damned....


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## RJSakowski (Apr 4, 2020)

Google Duo is another free video calling app.


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## DavidR8 (Apr 4, 2020)

Likewise Facetime for Apple folks.


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## Reddinr (Apr 4, 2020)

Regarding the MIT video.  Very interesting.  I recall seeing something like that years ago but I forgot or didn't realize that the distances were so large.  I think the WHO/CDC guidelines are more based on normal breathing, not sneezing and I bet with some practicality in mind.  In the video it looked like there are a few seconds for the sneeze to travel the large distance.  I guess that if you're quick, you can turn and walk away from a sneeze!

This is a very good time to be a hobby machinist.  I could go a few days without seeing anyone other than my wife during normal times.  Now, it is just a little longer.  The honey-do list is getting longer though.

As far as visiting relatives, we are being very careful and staying away.  We don't want to catch or transmit this anywhere near the peak resource usage times *.    We have some relatives that are in high risk groups and my wife and I are in a mid-risk group ourselves.  We're doing lots of emailing, texting, face-timing and zooming.  Be sure to use a decently complex password when using any online service.  That makes it tougher on the bad actors.

* USA hospital facility usage projections by state:  https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections


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## Superburban (Apr 4, 2020)

Remember, someone can be tested, come back negative, but exposed, and carry the virus that day after they were tested. One could even be exposed, and test negative, for hours, or maybe even a day or more, because the virus has not replicated itself in the host enough to test positive. Also, I have read where a lot of the testing is not being done properly. They say the proper way to swab, should be on the verge of painful, as they should be swabbing deep into the nose, almost to where the nose joins the mouth. 

I do not believe mass testing is the answer.



			https://health.ri.gov/publications/instructions/COVID-19-Specimen-Collection-Kit.pdf


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## middle.road (Apr 4, 2020)

Yeah, boy howdy, that's where I check out. The swab up the nose. Major league wuss here!   
I cringe (x6) everytime we see one. Honey gently razes me about it...
Hopefully the blood test/finger prick one can be fast-tracked, pricking fingertips I can do. 
Swab up the nose, count me out, my eyes water just thinking about it...
But then if it has to be, I'll have to man-up.



Superburban said:


> Remember, someone can be tested, come back negative, but exposed, and carry the virus that day after they were tested. One could even be exposed, and test negative, for hours, or maybe even a day or more, because the virus has not replicated itself in the host enough to test positive. Also, I have read where a lot of the testing is not being done properly. They say the proper way to swab, should be on the verge of painful, as they should be swabbing deep into the nose, almost to where the nose joins the mouth.
> 
> I do not believe mass testing is the answer.
> 
> ...


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## middle.road (Apr 4, 2020)

Some Zoom info from one of the leading sites out there.
They 'might' be patching it, but the question is will clients be updated?
Their lack of security and the issues they've had with sharing personal information bothers me a great deal.









						Zoom Lets Attackers Steal Windows Credentials, Run Programs via UNC Links
					

The Zoom Windows client is vulnerable to UNC path injection in the client's chat feature that could allow attackers to steal the Windows credentials of users who click on the link.




					www.bleepingcomputer.com
				












						How to Secure Your Zoom Meetings from Zoom-Bombing Attacks
					

This guide will walk you through securing your Zoom meetings so that virtual get-togethers, meetings, exercise classes, and even hours are not Zoom-bombed by unauthorized users.




					www.bleepingcomputer.com
				












						Hackers Take Advantage of Zoom's Popularity to Push Malware
					

Attackers are attempting to take advantage of Zoom's increasing user base since the COVID-19 outbreak started by registering hundreds of new Zoom-themed domains for malicious purposes.




					www.bleepingcomputer.com


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## DavidR8 (Apr 4, 2020)

At my workplace we’re advising everyone to delete the client and use the web version only. 


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## 7milesup (Apr 4, 2020)

One of our local churches was using Zoom last Sunday for streaming their service.  Apparently, someone "hacked" into their stream and filled it with porn.  Heard it straight from a parishioner of that church.  She was aghast.   I thought it was hilarious.


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## MontanaLon (Apr 4, 2020)

Superburban said:


> Remember, someone can be tested, come back negative, but exposed, and carry the virus that day after they were tested. One could even be exposed, and test negative, for hours, or maybe even a day or more, because the virus has not replicated itself in the host enough to test positive. Also, I have read where a lot of the testing is not being done properly. They say the proper way to swab, should be on the verge of painful, as they should be swabbing deep into the nose, almost to where the nose joins the mouth.
> 
> I do not believe mass testing is the answer.
> 
> ...


Testing for active disease is not the answer, testing for antigen development is. If you have the antigen you are already exposed and recovered. If you don't you can still get it. Those with the antigen are unlikely to be able to spread the virus and can go on happily with their lives while everyone else waits to get it.


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