# 2X72 Grinder, 2HP 3Phase Motor with 3HP VFD



## Grey (Oct 15, 2020)

Building a grinder with a 2HP 3Phase Motor and a 3HP VFD.  Currently have a CAD model designed for it and need to produce the drawings.
Parts so far in hand or on the way.

Amazon Consumables:
    2 X 72 Inch Flexible Aluminum Oxide Premium Quality Multipurpose Sanding Belts 60, 80, 120, 220, 320, 400 Grit, 6 Pack Assortment
    Sold by: Red Label Abrasives
    $19.49

    Red Label Abrasives 2 X 72 Inch 36 Grit Aluminum Oxide Metal Sanding Belts, 6 Pack
    Sold by: Red Label Abrasives
    $23.49

Surplus Center Parts:  
    2 HP 3500 RPM 230/460 3Ph TEFC Motor
    Item Number: 10-2899
    Sold by: Surplus Center
    $129.95

Amazon Parts:
    LAPOND High Performance VFD Inverter VFD Drive 2.2KW 220V 3HP 9.6A,Variable Frequency Drive for Motor Speed Control,SVD-PS Series
    Sold by: LAPOND
    $124.96

    Belt Grinder 2"x72" Polyamide Wheels 4" Drive 7/8" bore 3" track 2" Idler
    Sold by: TALENT HANDS
    Return eligible through Nov 4, 2020
    $90.00

    Steel Key Stock, Standard Tolerance, 3/16" Thickness, 1/4" Width, 12" Length (Pack of 1)
    Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
    $7.26

    Sydien 6 Pcs Alloy Steel Hexagon Socket Head Shoulder Screw Bolt 1/2" Shoulder Dia, 1-1/2" Shoulder Length, 3/8"-16 UNC Thread
    Sold by: Saidien
    $18.99

    Stens 235-086 Wheel Bolt, 1/2in x 2in, Replaces Snapper 7091526SM (Pack of 10)
    Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
    $21.05

Amazon Attachment:
    Happybuy 8x2inch Belt Grinder Rubber Wheel Serrated Rubber Contact Wheel 6206 Bearing Belt Grinder Wheel for 2x72inch Knife Making Grinder
    Sold by: Happibuy
    $43.99

 ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶D̶o̶n̶e̶p̶a̶r̶t̶ ̶R̶8̶ ̶2̶R̶S̶ ̶B̶e̶a̶r̶i̶n̶g̶s̶ ̶1̶/̶2̶ ̶x̶1̶-̶1̶/̶8̶ ̶x̶5̶/̶1̶6̶ ̶I̶n̶c̶h̶ ̶A̶B̶E̶C̶3̶ ̶H̶i̶g̶h̶ ̶S̶p̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶M̶i̶n̶i̶a̶t̶u̶r̶e̶ ̶B̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶B̶e̶a̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶E̶l̶e̶c̶t̶r̶i̶c̶ ̶M̶o̶t̶o̶r̶,̶ ̶W̶h̶e̶e̶l̶s̶,̶ ̶H̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶A̶p̶p̶l̶i̶a̶n̶c̶e̶s̶,̶ ̶G̶a̶r̶d̶e̶n̶ ̶M̶a̶c̶h̶i̶n̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶(̶1̶0̶ ̶P̶a̶c̶k̶)̶ ̶ ̶
 ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶S̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶:̶ ̶A̶A̶ ̶P̶a̶r̶t̶s̶ ̶S̶t̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶ ̶
 ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶$̶9̶.̶4̶9̶  NOT REQUIRED

Amazon Electronics:
    Yohii 300Watt 70 Ohm Aluminum Housing Wirewound Braking Resistor Solder Lug Silver ToneTerminals
    Sold by: Dylan.F
    $17.59

 ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶2̶p̶c̶s̶ ̶R̶V̶2̶4̶Y̶N̶2̶0̶S̶ ̶S̶i̶n̶g̶l̶e̶ ̶T̶u̶r̶n̶ ̶C̶a̶r̶b̶o̶n̶ ̶F̶i̶l̶m̶ ̶R̶o̶t̶a̶r̶y̶ ̶T̶a̶p̶e̶r̶ ̶P̶o̶t̶e̶n̶t̶i̶o̶m̶e̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶U̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶I̶n̶v̶e̶r̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶u̶l̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶.̶ ̶M̶o̶t̶o̶r̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶t̶r̶o̶l̶ ̶+̶ ̶2̶p̶c̶s̶ ̶A̶0̶3̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶b̶ ̶+̶ ̶2̶p̶c̶s̶ ̶d̶i̶a̶l̶s̶ ̶(̶B̶1̶0̶3̶ ̶1̶0̶K̶ ̶o̶h̶m̶)̶ ̶ ̶
 ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶S̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶:̶ ̶S̶E̶A̶-̶G̶U̶L̶L̶ ̶ ̶
 ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶$̶1̶1̶.̶8̶8̶  NEED 5K INSTEAD.

    POWERTEC 71007 110/220V Paddle Switch, 2.25
    Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
    $12.82

    uxcell AC 115/250V 30A CW4E-30A-S Noise Suppressor Power EMI Filter
    Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
    $25.40

    Uxcell a12022900ux0327 Power Transformer Ferrite Toroid Cores (Pack of 10),green
    Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
    $10.13

Edit: 10/15/20
I failed to mention this is initially for a Ranger 250 GXT to supply 220v single phase power.
Edit: 10/22/20
Should have waited and read the actual manual or received actual parts.  Product info on amazon is selfom complete or correct.  I would have avoided the one of the errors if I read everything in the info as it was contradictory.  Bearings for the 8 inch wheel are 50mm x 30mm, so not a direct replacement for 1-1/8 x 1/2.  LoL I should have just looked a little bit close and would have seen the info mismatch from the top of the page and the bottom of the page.
The VFD manual calls out 5K trim pots.  The increased resistance will bring up the amps beyound the halfway(5K) point.


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## Aukai (Oct 15, 2020)

Have you checked on the ceramic type belts?


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## Z2V (Oct 15, 2020)

I second @Aukia on the ceramic belts, much better than the AO. They produce less heat and last longer. Otherwise, it looks like you have a good shopping list.


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## Gaffer (Oct 15, 2020)

Also, for your VFD, consider 4HP minimum, maybe 5HP to be safe. I know for mills and other machinery, they recommend the VFD's HP doubles your motor's horse power. Be sure to post photos of your build. A belt grinder is on my to do/acquire list.


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## brino (Oct 15, 2020)

@Grey,

You are off to a great start!

I hope you can share some CAD drawings and photos too!

-brino


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## ttabbal (Oct 15, 2020)

Gaffer said:


> Also, for your VFD, consider 4HP minimum, maybe 5HP to be safe. I know for mills and other machinery, they recommend the VFD's HP doubles your motor's horse power. Be sure to post photos of your build. A belt grinder is on my to do/acquire list.




I've heard this is for running 3ph input VFDs on single phase. I run 2HP motors on 2HP single phase VFDs without any issues. At lower power levels, single phase input VFDs are common and you don't need to derate them. 

I grind on a 2x72 for lathe tooling and some finishing. It's great. Ceramic 36 grit will eat cobalt HSS like crazy.


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## kb58 (Oct 15, 2020)

Gaffer said:


> Also, for your VFD, consider 4HP minimum, maybe 5HP to be safe. I know for mills and other machinery, they recommend the VFD's HP doubles your motor's horse power. Be sure to post photos of your build. A belt grinder is on my to do/acquire list.


As far as I know, no one does that (over-rating) and there haven't been any ill consequences, at least as reported here.


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## Grey (Oct 15, 2020)

As far as I was able to gather, up sizing the VFD by 1 was what was needed.  Hence the boost from 2HP to 3HP.  Also seeing this will be my first venture with VFD's I didn't want to blow up too much money like on the 4th of July.

Ceramic belts I will check into.  I have a Blaze Belt on the to buy list but they are out of stock, though can't remember its material construction.  Above belts are for wood, aluminum, and chinesium.  Ah just checked, the Norton Blazes are ceramic alumina.

Will post drawings and pictures soon.  Amazon is spreading out my orders over the next 4 days.  Got my key stock and one set of belts today though.


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## mksj (Oct 15, 2020)

Up sizing VFD's is generally not required if one follows the appropriate derating for the operating conditions described in the manual and match it to the motor load (amps). These have more to do with the type of load, operating carrier frequency, ambient temperature, etc. One also sizes the VFD to the output operating amps, not necessarily the Hp/kW rating. If one is close to the maximum rated output, or there is an unusual high operating load/conditions then one may up-size. The 2X upsizing has more to do with 3 phase input VFD's being operated with single phase input power, there is some variation in how this is determined and the degree of derating can vary significantly between different VFD manufactures.  Some of the newer VFD's the derating is 3X for sIngle phase input on a 3 phase model. There can also be significant cost with going to a larger VFD, this also has to do with the input side of the VFD has to be rated at the full load of the VFD x 125%, not what the operating load is on the output.

Most times where individuals move to the next size up VFD has more to do with the quality of the VFD and in some cases the application. With mainstream VFD manufactures up-sizing is not needed if used in accordance with the manual (this includes 100% duty), but in few cases I recommend going to the next size up if one thinks they may go to a bigger motor down the line/very difficult load, otherwise not. Generic Chinese VFD's  are a bit of a different situation, the components are often marginal and the output rating do not match the components used, tracings and terminals. They are not built as robustly as mainstream VFDs, often may not meet a country specific electrical requirements,  and have a fairly high DOA. As well as a number of other issues relating to quality and longevity. My experience and others, it seems that if they work up front for the first 24 hours, then they are likely to last. Up rating to the next size may be worthwhile, and seems to be frequently the case, providing the price is right. 

The Chinese generic VFDs seem to be the only ones that have "single phase" input VFD's  in the 5-10 Hp range, but often how well/long they work is application specific. Some people have had success, others have smoked a few and given up.  In this case with case with a grinder it is a very basic task, issues may be of sustained operation/heat and grit would be concerns. I have also had more issues of motor tuning/compatibility with these VFD's so they do not always play nicely with some motors/machines.


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## Grey (Oct 15, 2020)

Concept at the moment.  Basically what I have seen else where with slight alterations.  Has a rotational mass of roughly 50/55lbs.  I haven't  weighted the individual wheels nor do I have the plate and gussets that will support the motor.  I would estimate 55lbs being the high side.  There will be a leverage arm for positioning and mounted to a pedestal.  There will be some alterations to allow for full angular adjustment of the table as well as full belt travel of the table when in horizontal position.


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## Grey (Oct 16, 2020)

The VFD arrived today.  It actually has an extensive manual.
The image with the calipers shows two things.  The amount of pages and the ridiculously small print.
It appears this is a Soyan Power VFD as the first image matches the PDF manual.


			http://www.soyan-tech.com/uploads/20189675/PDF/SVD-p-User-Manual.pdf


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## Grey (Oct 18, 2020)

A set of drawings that I will be working from.  Ignore metric threads as originally I was headed that way.  The bearings where in imperial so I switched over and mostly in my head.  It's an incomplete set but anyone could work from them using parts described at begining of thread.  The motor plate has to be confirmed so no holes that plate.  Missing the complete idle aligner.  Going to have to figure out what to do there with bearings, spring or shock absorber.  At the end of building the redlines will be included.


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## Grey (Nov 15, 2020)

Haven't given up, just taking a long time.  Rather use my "facility" a little at a time rather than never.
My welding is getting.. ah.. better?  Grinding takes forever with so much build up.  It is so far functioning as intended regardless of my underwelming performance with a cheapium plasma cutter and aluminum oxide grinding disks, , minus the motor of course.  Remember that I am building this grinder to help in my grinding a straight edge.  So don't laugh too hard.  Ad bad as some of the supposed to be straight cuts are, the important sections work flawlessly.

Next construction step is to weld cross braces between the vertical support plates, weld up and add the aligning wheel bar assembly, and weld on the motor plate.


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## Larry$ (Nov 15, 2020)

A lot of work! My welding requires a lot of grinding, then Bondo, then primer surfacer, then thick enamel. 
I've thought about getting a plasma cutter but don't do much welding. Are you happy with the one you got?


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## brino (Nov 15, 2020)

That is one stout grinder frame!

I've seen trailer hitches that were wimpier.

-brino


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## Grey (Nov 16, 2020)

Larry$ said:


> A lot of work! My welding requires a lot of grinding, then Bondo, then primer surfacer, then thick enamel.
> I've thought about getting a plasma cutter but don't do much welding. Are you happy with the one you got?


I have a 200 dollar touch start Cut40 off of Ama... I can't say it was the worst 200 dollars I have ever spent.  It will blow a 20amp circuit breaker easily, though I made a special cable and dual outlet to hook up to the 50amp total 1ph 240 on the Ranger.  I still need to get the air/amp ratios right.  I have trouble on the the 1/4 and 5/16 plates.  As soon as the consumable gets fudged then the cutting gets harder.  That 8inch channel on the bottom was a pain to cut.  The way I figure it, if I am going to get too much grinding sparks right at me I would rather direct them down.  Though beware of your shoes.  I have pants with a hole at my crotch from the grinder sparks and holes in a shoe from the molten metal.  Which area is more important, humm.  I have since got a leather apron/chaps.  I still forget to change steel toe shoes when I think  "am not really going to do to much."



brino said:


> That is one stout grinder frame!
> 
> I've seen trailer hitches that were wimpier.
> 
> -brino


Ah.. thanks.
I reduced the length of the dual beam pivot attachment to about 6 inches, due to using material that I had.  I worried about excessive virbation being that it was extended unsupported so far out.   So I beefed them up to 2x2x1/4 and am adding a clamp towards the end to wedge those beams together.  I want over kill rather than under kill so there is no kill on me.  Oh, I did see someone on the tube using 2x2 solid bar.  Now I thought that was over kill.


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## Grey (Mar 31, 2021)

Got delayed due to winter and funds.  Just finished the electrical control boards that were outside of my area of expertice.  Powered by 24vac coming from the VFD electrical enclosure.  Once the SPST rocker switch is thrown, 24vac will go back to the contactor in the VFD enclosure and startup the VFD.  The control box will house the potentiometer, a LED display for Feet Per Minute (maybe), a LED lit NC momentary switch, and two NO momentary switches and three leds.  When 24vac is switched ON a LED will light along with the LED Display.  Press forward or reverse by one of the NO momentary switches and hold for four seconds until the "RUN SET" LED comes on and at this time the motor should start to run.  If the buttons are pressed and held long enough the motor will not come on.  This should help in two ways.  One is that accidental starts should be diminished and additionally give some time for the motor to break before trying to change directions.  Once running the two NO switches become inactive and only the potentiometer can be adjusted and the NC STOP momentary switch be engaged.  One LED will display reverse when lit and the LED lit switch will show when power is going through the circuit.  Will update with schematics as soone as I place all the values I actually used into them.


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## Grey (Mar 31, 2021)

A little spikey.  In therory this is how it is supposed to work but in actuallity there is a brief period, maybe like 500 milliseconds, that the REV switch can be released prior to the "RUN SET" LED lighting and it will be operating in FWD  mode.  I have changed resistor values to increase the delay  and it ALWAYS happens just prior to the RUN SET.  This would indicate to me that REV coil is de-energized but there is still a current/voltage available to finish the time delay.  That is why the RUN SET is there, so you KNOW when it the switch has occured at which point the FWD/REV NO switches are disabled and you can let go.


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