# How to make an aluminum drawer liner



## tjb (Jul 21, 2018)

I need to make a compartmentalized kitchen drawer liner about 12" x 18" x 2" with six compartments in it.  I'd prefer to make it out of 1/8" aluminum with a thinner gauge bottom.  The design part of this is pretty simple.  My challenge is that I'm under the impression that TIG welding would be the best way to make it, but I stink at it.  That's a problem because I need the inside to have relatively clean joints.

Are there other ways to approach this?  Perhaps brazing or soldering?  Gluing?  The only soldering I've ever done was repairing some copper plumbing pipes.  That was successful, but it was about forty years ago.

Also, I'm open to suggestions of other products that could be used, provided they are sturdy enough for light to moderate daily use.  I could go slightly thicker (3/16"; 1/4" would be stretching it).

Any wise counsel?

Regards,
Terry


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## P. Waller (Jul 21, 2018)

Have the products made by a company that does such work all day long. If you can not find a vendor that will touch it then you will have to do it yourself, this may involve a good deal of time and money. It may not be worth doing such a job at all.


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## RJSakowski (Jul 21, 2018)

There are several aluminum solders/brazes that will wick into a joint.  The surfaces have to be freshly cleaned and IMO the joints aren't all that strong but for a drawer liner, it should be OK.  Another thought would be to use a thicker bottom and cut the rabbet to accept the walls.  With a rabbet, ytou wouldn't need a full solder line for a secure joint, just enough to pin the walls in place.  You should be able to get by with 3/16" material.

I made a pair of cutlery liners out of 1/4" acrylic that turned out well.  I used solvent type glue that wicked into the joints for secure joints.  I used a small syringe to meter out controlled amounts of the solvent.


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## tjb (Jul 21, 2018)

RJSakowski said:


> There are several aluminum solders/brazes that will wick into a joint.  The surfaces have to be freshly cleaned and IMO the joints aren't all that strong but for a drawer liner, it should be OK.  Another thought would be to use a thicker bottom and cut the rabbet to accept the walls.  With a rabbet, ytou wouldn't need a full solder line for a secure joint, just enough to pin the walls in place.  You should be able to get by with 3/16" material.
> 
> I made a pair of cutlery liners out of 1/4" acrylic that turned out well.  I used solvent type glue that wicked into the joints for secure joints.  I used a small syringe to meter out controlled amounts of the solvent.


Two comments/questions:

1.  I thought about a rabbet in a heftier bottom.  Do you think a 3/16" bottom would work well with 1/8" sides?  Also, any recommendations on solders and brazes?  Would I use an iron or a torch for something like this?
2.  I also thought about acrylic, recognizing it would need to be a little thicker, but the tradeoff would be it would also be lighter.  Again, any specific recommendations on a specific acrylic and glue?

Thanks for the counsel.

Regards,
Terry


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## Hawkeye (Jul 21, 2018)

Bear in mind that, unless you anodize or paint the aluminum, the soft metal will rub off on whatever you put into it.


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## Kenny G (Jul 22, 2018)

I actually have a project that I use aluminum brazing on frequently and have pretty good luck, and I actually find the joints to be very solid. I have tested to destruction. The temperature range is about 700 + for the rods I have used. But why do you want to use aluminum for a silverware drawer unless anodized it will be a mess after a while.


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## tjb (Jul 22, 2018)

To Hawkeye and Kenny G:

Thanks for the advice.  Kenny, how do you define "mess after awhile"?

To both, I'm not locked in to aluminum, so can you suggest a better/more practical option?  RJ's suggestion of acrylic/glue?

Regards and, again, thanks.
Terry


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## Dave Paine (Jul 22, 2018)

If you go with acrylic, you can find this at big box stores.   Also will find polycarbonate which may not scratch as much as acrylic.

For the glue you want thin CA glue, also called Superglue.    Woodworkers use CA glue.   This is sold in different viscosities, thin, medium and gel.   The thin will wick into the joint.   Medium would need to be applied to the edge then the joint assembled.

Use sparingly and have acetone on hand if any gets on your hands.    The acetone will melt the acrylic so avoid using on the acrylic.


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## Eddyde (Jul 22, 2018)

I think you would be fine with ⅛" Aluminum and brazing it. As far as wear and tear, it will certainly get a bit scratched up if you put stainless steel utensils in it but I doubt it will become a "mess".


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## tjb (Jul 22, 2018)

Dave Paine said:


> If you go with acrylic, you can find this at big box stores.   Also will find polycarbonate which may not scratch as much as acrylic.
> 
> For the glue you want thin CA glue, also called Superglue.    Woodworkers use CA glue.   This is sold in different viscosities, thin, medium and gel.   The thin will wick into the joint.   Medium would need to be applied to the edge then the joint assembled.
> 
> Use sparingly and have acetone on hand if any gets on your hands.    The acetone will melt the acrylic so avoid using on the acrylic.


Thanks, Dave.

I vaguely remember back in the '70's seeing some small 'trinket'-style pieces in a home shop that were made that way.  Never saw the process in action, though.  Sounds relatively simple and straightforward.  Or am I missing something?

Regards,
Terry


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## tjb (Jul 22, 2018)

Eddyde said:


> I think you would be fine with ⅛" Aluminum and brazing it. As far as wear and tear, it will certainly get a bit scratched up if you put stainless steel utensils in it but I doubt it will become a "mess".


Thanks, Eddyde.

I have made some hot plates and other simple kitchen utensils out of 6061t6 aluminum, and it does indeed scratch.  But to me, that's a long ways from being a 'mess'.  I fully anticipated the scratches, and you've basically confirmed it.  Aluminum is still on the short list of options.

Regards,
Terry


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## RandyM (Jul 22, 2018)

All food grade equipment that is made industrially grind all welds. It maybe an option for you. Yeah, I know, it is a lot of work, but it is doable. AND, it really looks nice.

Another option would be to make the parts interlocking and avoid or keep welding to a minimum.


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## RJSakowski (Jul 22, 2018)

The acrylic that the big box stores sell is usually extruded .  Cast acrylic machines much better.  I buy acrylic cutoffs from a plastic supply house but it is available for reasonable prices on eBay. 
Here is a photo of the divider that I made.  It is custom fit to the drawer  and has side grips for lifting out because ther is an identical divider below it for the "Sunday" cutlery.


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## Dave Paine (Jul 22, 2018)

tjb said:


> Thanks, Dave.
> 
> I vaguely remember back in the '70's seeing some small 'trinket'-style pieces in a home shop that were made that way.  Never saw the process in action, though.  Sounds relatively simple and straightforward.  Or am I missing something?
> 
> ...



It is simple.   Many YouTube videos on gluing acrylic.   CA glue, special acrylic solvent which should be available at the big box store, or acetone.   I have only tried the CA glue to make a filter for an aquarium.  It worked for me.   I had the CA glue on hand.


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## brino (Jul 22, 2018)

Dave Paine said:


> I had the CA glue on hand.



Hopefully not literally.
-brino


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## RWanke (Jul 22, 2018)




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## Silverbullet (Jul 22, 2018)

How about stainless steel it's not much more.


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## tjb (Jul 22, 2018)

RJSakowski said:


> The acrylic that the big box stores sell is usually extruded .  Cast acrylic machines much better.  I buy acrylic cutoffs from a plastic supply house but it is available for reasonable prices on eBay.
> Here is a photo of the divider that I made.  It is custom fit to the drawer  and has side grips for lifting out because ther is an identical divider below it for the "Sunday" cutlery.
> View attachment 272507


Thanks, RJ.

That looks great and is very close to what I'm trying to make.  I'm assuming from your earlier post that you used the 'thin' CA, or Super Glue, type product mentioned by Dave?  Did you clamp up first and let the glue wick in?

Regards,
Terry


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## Eddyde (Jul 22, 2018)

True Acrylic cement is not CA, it is a solvent that slightly melts each surface and fuses them together, they essentially become one piece. Though I have never tested CA on Acrylic I doubt its as strong as a proper solvent bond.


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## tjb (Jul 22, 2018)

Eddyde said:


> True Acrylic cement is not CA, it is a solvent that slightly melts each surface and fuses them together, they essentially become one piece. Though I have never tested CA on Acrylic I doubt its as strong as a proper solvent bond.


Does it wick?


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## RJSakowski (Jul 22, 2018)

tjb said:


> Thanks, RJ.
> 
> That looks great and is very close to what I'm trying to make.  I'm assuming from your earlier post that you used the 'thin' CA, or Super Glue, type product mentioned by Dave?  Did you clamp up first and let the glue wick in?
> 
> ...


Terry,
I wouldn't use Super Glue to bond acrylic.  It's not as super as it claims.  Super glue will mess up a joint preventing other gluing methods.  For acrylic, I use either a plain solvent adhesive or a filler type that has dissolved acrylic.  Plastic fabrication and supply shops will have both.

As I stated, I had rabbeted grooves in the base plate and intersecting walls which aided in positioning.  a couple of small clamps were used to hold everything in position while adding the solvent.  I had a micro-syringe with a .020" tip which allowed me to apply very small amount of solvent.  The typocal amount for a 10" joint was .1ml.  I applied the solvent by starting at the far end of the joint and dispensing while I drew the syringe along the joint, much like caulking with a caulking applicator.  The solvent will wick in to fill the joint and make a good bond.

Here are a couple of SolidWorks drawings to show the joint detail.


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## aliva (Jul 22, 2018)

I belive Methylene Chloride is used as a solvent for acrylic. It will wick into the joints. A plastics supplier should have it on hand. Amazon also has a variety of products


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## tjb (Jul 22, 2018)

RJSakowski said:


> Terry,
> I wouldn't use Super Glue to bond acrylic.  It's not as super as it claims.  Super glue will mess up a joint preventing other gluing methods.  For acrylic, I use either a plain solvent adhesive or a filler type that has dissolved acrylic.  Plastic fabrication and supply shops will have both.
> 
> As I stated, I had rabbeted grooves in the base plate and intersecting walls which aided in positioning.  a couple of small clamps were used to hold everything in position while adding the solvent.  I had a micro-syringe with a .020" tip which allowed me to apply very small amount of solvent.  The typocal amount for a 10" joint was .1ml.  I applied the solvent by starting at the far end of the joint and dispensing while I drew the syringe along the joint, much like caulking with a caulking applicator.  The solvent will wick in to fill the joint and make a good bond.
> ...


Very nice, RJ.  I particularly like the finger hole side grips and contoured dividers.  Nice touches.

I found a couple of youtube videos on gluing acrylic.  One was hyping a product called TAP Plastics (are they the same folks as Tap Magic?); the other was a product called Weld-On #4.  Are these the same types of products you suggested?  They appear to be made expressly for this type of application.

The drawings look like you milled the rabbets down 1/8", i.e., half the thickness of the base.  Is that correct?

Finally, I'm assuming you formed the parts on a mill.  What parameters (speed/feed rate/# of flutes/etc.)?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Terry


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## tjb (Jul 22, 2018)

aliva said:


> I belive Methylene Chloride is used as a solvent for acrylic. It will wick into the joints. A plastics supplier should have it on hand. Amazon also has a variety of products


Thanks.

That advice seems to be consistent with several other helpful comments.

Regards,
Terry


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## Mitch Alsup (Jul 22, 2018)

If you go with aluminum the look at Muggy Weld Aluminum 

I, personally, would go with thinner stainless, and use silver brazing.


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## Eddyde (Jul 22, 2018)

I apply Acrylic glue with a glass eyedropper. Hold the pieces together in position, place drops of glue along the joint, hold for a minute or so and you are done, you can also tape the parts together. With clear and translucent parts you can easily see it wick into the joint and know exactly how much to apply, its a little tricker with opaque parts.


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## Shootymacshootface (Jul 22, 2018)

All that I have to say is that aluminum cookware has been linked to alzymers.


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## tjb (Jul 22, 2018)

Eddyde said:


> I apply Acrylic glue with a glass eyedropper. Hold the pieces together in position, place drops of glue along the joint, hold for a minute or so and you are done, you can also tape the parts together. With clear and translucent parts you can easily it wick into the joint and know exactly how much to apply, its a little tricker with opaque parts.


Thanks.

Acrylic is sounding more and more appealing.

Regards,
Terry


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## tjb (Jul 22, 2018)

Shootymacshootface said:


> All that I have to say is that aluminum cookware has been linked to alzymers.


Uh-oh.


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## Eddyde (Jul 22, 2018)

Shootymacshootface said:


> All that I have to say is that aluminum cookware has been linked to alzymers.


Good point, I forgot about that...


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## rwm (Jul 22, 2018)

Shootymacshootface said:


> All that I have to say is that aluminum cookware has been linked to alzymers.


 The highest blood levels ever recorded have been in aluminum process workers and they do not have a higher incidence of Alzheimer's dementia.
Robert


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## Shootymacshootface (Jul 22, 2018)

Just repeating what I read somewhere. 





rwm said:


> The highest blood levels ever recorded have been in aluminum process workers and they do not have a higher incidence of Alzheimer's dementia.
> Robert


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## RJSakowski (Jul 22, 2018)

tjb said:


> Very nice, RJ.  I particularly like the finger hole side grips and contoured dividers.  Nice touches.
> 
> I found a couple of youtube videos on gluing acrylic.  One was hyping a product called TAP Plastics (are they the same folks as Tap Magic?); the other was a product called Weld-On #4.  Are these the same types of products you suggested?  They appear to be made expressly for this type of application.
> 
> ...


Terry,

My solvent cement is made by Craftics and is at least 30 years old.  It is methylene chloride.  I have use some of the SciGrip Weldon products but I don't believe that I used their acrylic cement.  Amazon aqnd eBay have a lot of choices.  I believe that you want the #4 formula.  The cement doesn't go bad with time; it just goes away.

The applicators with the 25 gauge needles should work.  I would prefer a syringe for better control.  If you know anyone who uses insulin, you might be able to repurpose one of their syringes.  If you apply too much, don't try to wipe it up.  Use some Kleenex of paper towel to wick up the excess.  The small amount remaining will evaporate and leave a barely noticeable spot.

The rabbets were at half thickness.

I did run the contours on my Tormach CNC.  I ran full depth, single pass, no cleanup pass.  I tried a 2 flute carbide end mill but got better results with a single flute carbide router bit.  I ran at 10,000 rpm and 40 ipm with no cleanup pass.  Edge finish was great with no chipping.The speed and feed selection had nothing magical about it.  I ran the cutter speed at 10K because that was as fast as I could run.  At 40 ipm feed rate there wasn't ehough dwell time to melt the plastic.  In another world, a CNC router would have been used.


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## tjb (Jul 22, 2018)

RJSakowski said:


> Terry,
> 
> My solvent cement is made by Craftics and is at least 30 years old.  It is methylene chloride.  I have use some of the SciGrip Weldon products but I don't believe that I used their acrylic cement.  Amazon aqnd eBay have a lot of choices.  I believe that you want the #4 formula.  The cement doesn't go bad with time; it just goes away.
> 
> ...


OKay, I think I'm gonna round up the materials and take a shot at making the liner out of acrylic.  Back in the day, I ran a professional horse training and breeding operation on our farm and did a fair amount of the veterinary work.  I have a boatload of leftover unused small, medium and large syringes that I can use.

Thanks very much for your thoughtful and very informative counsel on this.  I do not have CNC equipment nor can I run at 10,000 rpm, so I'll need to do some experimenting to find the right combination of tool/speed/feed rate.  Hopefully, I'll be posting a photo of a successful project before too long.

Thanks again,
Terry


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## RJSakowski (Jul 22, 2018)

Terry, I've got some of those syringes leftover  as well. One thought.  The disposable syringes have an elastomer seal on the piston which may not be compatible with methylene chloride. The syringe that I used had a Teflon seal.  They make some polyethylene droppers that could be cut to fit the needle that should do the job.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-3ML-...70.l1311.R3.TR3.TRC0.A0.H0.Xeye+droppers.TRS0


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## Hawkeye (Jul 22, 2018)

I use methylene chloride to join acrylic, polycarbonate, PVC, ABS (white ABS may be nice for this) and some 3D printer plastics, such as PLA.


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## Janderso (Jul 23, 2018)

Well that explains some things, regarding Alzheimer’s


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## Al 1 (Jul 23, 2018)

A nice hardwood would be fine for what your doing.  3/8"  thickness would be OK.  Al


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## tjb (Jul 23, 2018)

Al 1 said:


> A nice hardwood would be fine for what your doing.  3/8"  thickness would be OK.  Al


Several years ago, I did a lot of work with hardwoods.  But allergies forced me to quit.  I'd love to still do some, but that's just not realistic in my case.  Besides, when I couldn't do it anymore, I sold all my woodworking equipment.

Good thought, though.

Regards,
Terry


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## tjb (Feb 23, 2019)

Well, it took me long enough, but I finally was able to free up enough time to resurrect this project.  Got busy again and realized I never brought this thread to closure.

Ended up making the drawer liner out of acrylic, modeled generally after RJ's fine piece of work (not up to that standard, but not too bad for a first attempt).  Here are a couple of photos of the finished product.  The best news:  the vice-president-in-charge-of-kitchen-maintenance-and-operations loves it.  If she's happy, I'm happy.

Thanks for the sage advice from everyone.  I never considered acrylic until some of you suggested it.  It was an interesting exercise, and I suspect I'll figure out more projects using that material.

Regards,
Terry


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