# How do you organize your milling fixtures/hold downs?



## Janderso (May 26, 2022)

Moving my 10" C Gorton rotary table to the mill table is always preceded by a question, is there another way?
This thing hurts me! It has to weigh 80 lbs. or more.

Once I got it up there, caught my breath, I had to find some hold downs.
This started another project. I need to organize this mess.
Those mill hold down kits come with the hanging organizers. I find them to be a royal PITA. You can't get the T nuts out and the hex nuts get stuck down in their slots.
There has to be a better way.


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## brasssmanget (May 26, 2022)

I agree.....I've moved most of my sets to smaller boxes like you show....just seems easier than using the factory compartment racks...


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## mmcmdl (May 26, 2022)

I have a dedicated drawer in one of the Vidmars Jeff . All organized believe it or not .   I'm still finding them down the other basement so I may have to go to a larger drawer . I buried quite a few of these in the past , they multiplied when I wasn't looking and had way too many . And like you , I tossed all those original holders . PITA .


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## maspann (May 26, 2022)

Heavy lifting. I recently had to replace the bearings in my Enco milling machine motor. After seeing Joe Pie's video when he had to remove his, I knew I didn't want to lift it by myself. My solution was to attach a piece of unistrut across several trusses in my shop ceiling and mount a unistrut trolley and small pulley system to hoist and hold the motor.
That worked so well that I am in the process of expanding the use to my 10" rotary table and 90 deg dividing head. I am building a rolling cart to store them under a work table where they can be pulled out and lifted to the milling machine without breaking my back. It is still a work in progress, but here is a photo of the basic setup.


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## Provincial (May 26, 2022)

I like to put nuts and t-nuts on 1/4" rod columns.  That way they take up little room, and you can keep track of inventory at a glance.  If you mount the base plate to a wall or other vertical surface, and bend the tip of the rod up, they can be kept within arms reach, and don't fall off the end of the rod.

I'm thinking of making a variation on the standard storage rack, mounted to a vertical surface, that has angled holes for the studs (so gravity will help keep them in place), laid out in a pattern that sorts them by length.  I hate rummaging around looking for the proper length stud.  

I have two mills and a drill press that use 1/2" studs, and a shaper block (box) that uses 3/8" studs.  I keep the 3/8" set in the factory rack because I don't use it often.  I keep one set of 1/2" studs at the drill press, because it is located pretty far away from the mills.

I'm working on modifying a rolling rack to hold tooling.  It will have a shelf about chest height for the rotary table and dividing head so I can set the table to match that height and just slide the heavy stuff on and off the table to the shelf.  It will have the hold-down equipment racked on one vertical surface, with collets, end mill holders, and other tooling racked above and below the shelf.  I can roll it to whichever machine I working with at the moment.


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## Larry$ (May 26, 2022)

brasssmanget said:


> .just seems easier than using the factory compartment racks...


I'm the opposite! I hate digging through boxes, bins or drawers. I've got 3 of the plastic racks mounted on the wall by the mill. Two different sizes and a third size in a home made rack. I can see at a glance all the parts. I almost always put everything back as soon as I'm done. That includes all the tools and paraphernalia that I used that day. As I get older I find myself "misplacing" things so it is much easier to just always have stuff in the same location. Chips are cleaned up and floor swept before I go home.  

I tried to maintain the same in my woodworking/manufacturing business. Shadow tool boards at each assembly bench, each machine had it's own set of wrenches etc.  Cleanup at the end of every shift. Some people were very difficult to train that way. 

We made parts for a large Japanese manufacturer. Their plant was always beautifully organized and clean. We made their office furnishings also. When the head of the local plant retired he had us make the interior for his new Japanese restaurant. Neat, quiet guy. I was surprised that he hadn't gone back to Japan when he retired.  I'm babbling off track, sorry.


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## RJSakowski (May 26, 2022)

I have a 12" Enco H/V RT that the catalog says has a ship wt. of 300 lbs.  It has been more or less permanently installed on my RF30 clone for the past fifteen years.  It was a struggle getting it up there then and I wouldn't even attempt to strong arm it now.  I thought about a sky hook.  It would work if rotated the mill head but then I would also need a means to slide the RT to a cart.  Another thought was to buy a hydraulic lift table.  

As it is, I have my CNC mill where I do most of my milling so there hasn't been a pressing need to remove the RT.  A good thing as I really don't have a place to store it when not on the mill.

I have two sets of step clamps and keep them in their original racks.  The 3/8" set is the one I use most of the time and the rack consists of a piece of plywood with holds drilled for the studs and pockets for the clamps and step blocks.  I have extra hardware which I keep in stacking parts bins. I use my 1/2" set rarely but haven't experienced any inconvenience with the hanging rack.  It resides on the end of my rolling tool cart where it is pretty much out of the way.


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## C-Bag (May 26, 2022)

Larry$ said:


> I'm the opposite! I hate digging through boxes, bins or drawers. I've got 3 of the plastic racks mounted on the wall by the mill. Two different sizes and a third size in a home made rack. I can see at a glance all the parts. I almost always put everything back as soon as I'm done. That includes all the tools and paraphernalia that I used that day. As I get older I find myself "misplacing" things so it is much easier to just always have stuff in the same location. Chips are cleaned up and floor swept before I go home.
> 
> I tried to maintain the same in my woodworking/manufacturing business. Shadow tool boards at each assembly bench, each machine had it's own set of wrenches etc.  Cleanup at the end of every shift. Some people were very difficult to train that way.
> 
> We made parts for a large Japanese manufacturer. Their plant was always beautifully organized and clean. We made their office furnishings also. When the head of the local plant retired he had us make the interior for his new Japanese restaurant. Neat, quiet guy. I was surprised that he hadn't gone back to Japan when he retired.  I'm babbling off track, sorry.


+1 ! I don‘t like the pile method either. The wall organizers are the perfect solution for me as I can see what I need and most importantly whether something is missing. I also do cleanup at the end of the day/job with specific tooling on magnets with easy access like on my bandsaws. I got used to having a 24” magnet on the top of my rollaway for nuts and bolts etc so I have them mounted to different machines with the necessary wrenches, allen wrenches etc The other machines have their own tooling in drawers underneath them so no searching.

I also have a stupid heavy 10” RT and use a HF small chain hoist in the rafters to lift in place. They were only $50 and are rated for 1tn. Super easy safe way to move it.


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## rabler (May 26, 2022)

I have been moving toward those plastic bins rather than the original organizers.  I use the wall hanging racks. Although current prices are discouraging. One row for hold downs. Another row for inserts and HSS. Another row for endmills. I personally like being able to see what is in each bin without having to open drawers, and can move a whole bin to a table (even the mill bed) to use.


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## Winegrower (May 26, 2022)

It never occurred to me to not like the hanging style organizers.   I like that the surface area is small, and I agree that sometimes the parts are a bit hard to get out.   I keep a rare earth magnet on the organizer, just stick it on the end of a stud and pull the parts out that way.

I have another set that the previous owner had routed out a wood base and holder for the same size kit.   He added a bunch of vertical rods for nuts and washers, and drilled holes for the studs.   It's OK, but uses up a lot of area.

Edit:   I keep my 12" Bridgeport brand rotary table on top of a roll around toolbox, and can slide it directly to the mill ways.   Works ok, but have to be careful of chips underneath.


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## mmcmdl (May 26, 2022)

Here is a set of the heel blocks in a wooden case . I think they are on their way to Hawaii .


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## davidpbest (May 26, 2022)

More storage details *are here. *


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## deakin (May 26, 2022)

sounds like a two part question. getting something on the table (exercise, skyhook or lift table) or perhaps the plastic hold down rack????

don't take this wrong but i have found that people with emaculate workshops/tool boxes usually don't get much actual work done 
i have an old metal hold down rack   no issues


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## Firstram (May 26, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> View attachment 408022
> 
> 
> More storage details *are here. *


That's perfect, I wish my tools didn't live in a trailer/vibratory polisher. The trailer is moving from Atlanta to Charlotte next week and you never know what surprises the trip will hand you.


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## Batmanacw (May 26, 2022)

I have a rolling table that is pretty high that I put my big rotary table on to move it to my mill. I can drop the table a bit to ease lifting a bit.


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## Boswell (May 26, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> More storage details *are here.*


OMG!  David, that is awesome


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## BGHansen (May 27, 2022)

At least two schools of thought on the "cleanliness" of a shop.  Mine isn't pristine by any stretch of the imagination.  But stuff is organized (somewhat) so I can find it.  Our dog will come into the shop so I regularly sweep/vacuum the floor so "Toby" doesn't hurt himself on chips.  And "yes", I don't do it as often as I should.

Toyota uses something they call the "Toyota Manufacturing System" which GM adopted into "GMS - Global Manufacturing System".  One of the many facets of GMS is workplace cleanliness.  Quick version is if the floor is filthy under a machine, how do you know when/if it's leaking oil?  Another reason is trying to establish a culture of pride in workmanship.  Our mom's wouldn't allow their homes to look like a pig-sty, why let your shop look like one?  I try to budget at least 30 minutes after each project is completed to clean up my mess.  Caveat is if I'm done for the day and the project isn't completed, I probably leave the mess and do a good job once when it's completed.

I bought a Bridgeport from a guy with a shop that you could have safely eaten off the floor.  Everything was clean, wiped down and put in well labeled drawers.  He had been operating a machine shop out of a pole barn next to his house and had a sign over the door with something like "Your mom isn't here to clean up your mess.  If I have to do it, consider this door one-way".  His employees knew the rules.  I was very comfortable buying the BP from him because of the cleanliness/organization of his shop.  I figured if he took the time to clean it, he probably maintained the BP also.  Especially since the cement floor under the BP made him no money, but the BP certainly did.

On the other hand, it's what you are comfortable with.  It's more of a pride thing for me.  If you look at my BP, you'll see a couple of clamping kits hanging on the wall to the left side.  If you look at the floor to the left, you'll also see a couple of cardboard boxes with R8 collets and clamping hardware.  There's also a cardboard box on the BP base with more clamping studs and stuff.  One of my "list of good intentions" projects is to organize what's in the boxes.  It just looks "cheesy" to me, plus I don't even know what's in them.  Yet, I've been living with it that way for 5 years.  

Oh, the photo of my BP was probably shot mid-project.  Check out the floor, not swept up like it should be as I was machining some Delrin or polyethylene at the time.  It got vacuumed up after the project was wrapped.  Does it make my projects better or help finding stuff in the drawers?  No, a clean floor serves nothing toward the project other than my pride if someone happens to drop over.

I attached some random photos of my "organization".  Opportunities for improvement?  No question.  It's a work in process as the stuff that gets used the most is organized.  The rest will be a retirement project.  

Bruce


My BP typically has an ER40 collet chuck in place.  R8's are in a cardboard box on the floor to the left.



Messy storage rack with large micrometers, BP right angle attachment, dividing heads, rotary table, vise, etc.  There's a sheet taped to each shelf identifying what's there.  Not the best but gives me something to improve on as a retirement project.



Some of my end mill tooling.  Need a 1/4" rougher, easier to find here than shuffling through a coffee can.



Same for more of my taps and dies.



Some of the mill tooling.  Drawer fronts are labeled though stuff isn't the tidiest inside.


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## mmcmdl (May 27, 2022)

Bruce . No one has ever accused me of being overly organized . I guess I shouldn't post any pics !


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## davidpbest (May 27, 2022)

BGHansen said:


> At least two schools of thought on the "cleanliness" of a shop.  Mine isn't pristine by any stretch of the imagination.  But stuff is organized (somewhat) so I can find it.


Totally agree Bruce.  Thanks for posting on this.  Some people can deal with clutter and still be productive, while others can't.  Nothing upsets my day more than trying to find something (usually a tool) that I know I own but can't find.  And while my shop is often full of shavings and looks a mess, at the end of the day I like leaving the shop clean and tidy - it sets the right frame of mind the following day coming into the shop.  The idea that "people with emaculate workshops/tool boxes usually don't get much actual work done" is preposterous IMO.


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## Boswell (May 27, 2022)

In my shop
1. Everything has a proper storage place
2. Most of the time, things are stored in the proper storage place
3. Periodically, I go through and move things to the proper storage place
4. When things are NOT in the proper storage place, I am confident they are someplace else (usually at or near the place of last use)


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## slow-poke (May 27, 2022)

Agreed the holders are a PITA to wiggle the Tnuts out of.

I picked up a low cost Husky tool box for mill stuff and parked it within arms reach. I made a little bracket to hold the 123 blocks and hold down clamps.

I have a heavy vise, it lives on a tall roll-around shelf that is approximately the same height as the table on the mill, so it’s more shifting than lifting.


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## Larry$ (May 27, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> Nothing upsets my day more than trying to find something (usually a tool) that I know I own but can't find.


That's my way of thinking also. Time spent looking for something is a total waste. My hobby area is starting to suffer from a shortage of places to put stuff or else just too much stuff. But there is more "stuff" I want. A BS-1 is high on my list. Ordered one from PM but is on backorder until maybe late summer, boo. I think I'll order one from some other place. Any suggestions where to buy?


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## Janderso (May 28, 2022)

RJSakowski said:


> I have a 12" Enco H/V RT that the catalog says has a ship wt. of 300 lbs.  It has been more or less permanently installed on my RF30 clone for the past fifteen years.  It was a struggle getting it up there then and I wouldn't even attempt to strong arm it now.  I thought about a sky hook.  It would work if rotated the mill head but then I would also need a means to slide the RT to a cart.  Another thought was to buy a hydraulic lift table.
> 
> As it is, I have my CNC mill where I do most of my milling so there hasn't been a pressing need to remove the RT.  A good thing as I really don't have a place to store it when not on the mill.
> 
> I have two sets of step clamps and keep them in their original racks.  The 3/8" set is the one I use most of the time and the rack consists of a piece of plywood with holds drilled for the studs and pockets for the clamps and step blocks.  I have extra hardware which I keep in stacking parts bins. I use my 1/2" set rarely but haven't experienced any inconvenience with the hanging rack.  It resides on the end of my rolling tool cart where it is pretty much out of the way.


RJ,
If your 12” is 300#, this C. Gorton 10” has got to be over 100#!!
I have to come up with something, I’m not getting any younger.


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## Janderso (May 28, 2022)

Larry$ said:


> That's my way of thinking also. Time spent looking for something is a total waste. My hobby area is starting to suffer from a shortage of places to put stuff or else just too much stuff. But there is more "stuff" I want. A BS-1 is high on my list. Ordered one from PM but is on backorder until maybe late summer, boo. I think I'll order one from some other place. Any suggestions where to buy?


I should have purchased the -1. I have it’s baby brother.


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## Janderso (May 28, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> Totally agree Bruce.  Thanks for posting on this.  Some people can deal with clutter and still be productive, while others can't.  Nothing upsets my day more than trying to find something (usually a tool) that I know I own but can't find.  And while my shop is often full of shavings and looks a mess, at the end of the day I like leaving the shop clean and tidy - it sets the right frame of mind the following day coming into the shop.  The idea that "people with emaculate workshops/tool boxes usually don't get much actual work done" is preposterous IMO.


David,
You don’t have to defend anything you do.
You have a brilliant, creative mind and you produce amazing parts.
Your machine rework projects are legendary.


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## Parlo (May 28, 2022)

I'm not a fan of clamps. I modified my rotary table to automatically align in the machine vice. It also has a self aligning system where a vice is automatically aligned This enables me to pop my rotary table in the vice - find the centre and the rest of the setup is simple using a dowel in the collet.
Here is a slideshow of the system. -


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## RJSakowski (May 28, 2022)

Janderso said:


> RJ,
> If your 12” is 300#, this C. Gorton 10” has got to be over 100#!!
> I have to come up with something, I’m not getting any younger.


I've never weighed it.  I was going by the quoted weight in the last Enco catalog.  The Enco RT is a lot more massive4 than a Phase II and that was list at 200 lbs.


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## Boswell (Jun 5, 2022)

I never liked the storage jig/rack that came with the hold down kit and it also did not allow for expansion. here is my solution. this 4 drawer "Mid Box" sits on a shelf just to the left of my mill and I keep other high use items in it as well. While I do use a milling vice, I find myself clamping parts directly to the table fairly often.


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