# Busy Bee Tools Canada



## tigercat4519 (Jan 23, 2015)

*Hi to all Canadians and any one else on here that may be considering buying from Busy Bee Tools. I  purchased a lathe from them in September 2014 the CX701 and on start up the gearbox took out 2 gears and bent one shaft, they said no problem it was under warranty, so from there on in all I got was a runaround, finally I told them I had handed it over to the credit card people and by then I told them that I wanted a new lathe because why should I have to do my own repairs on a lathe that I just paid $3600.00 for, while this was going on the parts arrived but was told by the credit card people to not install them which I got nothing from another joke, Parts are sitting home still not installed.
The Lathe is not something you want to wast your money on it viberates and the Apron gear box leaks oil enought that if I have to keep it I will have to take it apart and try to stop the oil, I have 25 years experience on Lathes and any thing Busy Bee sells you that is made in China forget warranty you are on your own they will not have someone come out and repair it for you or even come out and look at it and the store in Nova Scotia is only about 20 miles from my house.
Just wanted to warn people not to wast your money on any thing Busy Bee sells and I'm not the first one that this has happened to, I'm in Florida for the winter and when I get home I'm hoping to see if I can take them to small claims court.

Just wanted to ad here is the chinese company that makes these Lathes: 
*http://www.weiss.com.cn/company/&FrontComContent_list01-1323238072385ContId=10&comContentId=10.html * I talked to them when this happened and they are of no help because they said I didn't buy it directly from them, not much like the North America companies, Wish I would have purchased even a used North American Lathe.

Phil
*


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## road (Jan 24, 2015)

Hi 
Tigercat4519, 
I live close to the Toronto store for Busy Bee, a couple of years ago I called to inquire about parts for my Craftex b1979c lathe. 

I asked about buying a manual and a few parts.  I had the parts #'s _ & stated I could pick them up to save the shipping. 
The person who answered the phone was almost rude, obviously not interested in my purchase.  Giving one word replies to my inquiries. 

I will NEVER promote or support the company in any way.  I have heard nothing but poor reviews about their products and services. 

I completely understand your frustrations with  " Too Busy Bee to Care "_


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## johnnyc14 (Jan 24, 2015)

When I was shopping for a milling machine, I looked at the small knee mills on the Busy Bee Tools showroom floor in the Edmonton store. There were 2 sales guys working in the metal machine area. The first guy I talked to had absolutely no knowledge of machine tools and referred me to the second guy. He was disinterested in my questions and downright rude. The small knee mills they have are Taiwan made and look like pretty good quality but I couldn't make myself buy one based on the attitude of the people in the store. I called Matt at Quality Machine Tools and ordered a PM932PDF. He made the decision very easy by answering every question I had, arranging very reasonably priced shipping, and handling all the customs and duty paper work for me. Once the machine was shipped from Pittsburgh it arrived here in Edmonton in less than a week. I have had a couple of small warranty issues that Matt has taken care of with absolutely no hassles. It would be nice to be able to deal with a Canadian vendor just to support a local business but it takes good customer service and quality products to get my business and you can't get either at Busy Bee.

I hope you are successful getting your money back from Busy Bee and thanks for posting your comments. Maybe it will save a few other Canadians the pain of dealing with this shoddy outfit.

john


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## Downwindtracker2 (Jan 24, 2015)

Good luck on your lathe. It must be very disappointing to have bought a new lathe and have those problems.I have three BusyBee machines, none bought new, just really cheap.

 I stop by the store in New Westminster. It's just two bays in a row warehouse. In the mid-80s, they had a nice store in Burnaby and KMS had small single bay store in a run down strip mall. KMS, now,  has large store and a chain across  B.C. and Alberta.


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## f350ca (Jan 24, 2015)

I'll have to confirm their customer service attitude. I was passing through the city and stopped to get a dado head for the table saw. Was far from cheap, I was leery, but bought it anyway. It cuts nice but over width, the blades are too thick so a 1/4 wide groove comes out close to 5/16. I wrote a review on their website, of course it never was posted, I emailed them and much latter got a reply saying thanks, they'd check their manufacturing for future products. No offer of exchange.

Greg


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## johnnyc14 (Jan 24, 2015)

Wow, we have replies from coast to coast! Looks like it's the same situation right across the country.

John


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## tigercat4519 (Jan 24, 2015)

Thanks guys and to anyone else reading about my CX701 Lathe problem, hopefully we can get lots of people commeting on this, I put a review on there site on the Lathe but they didn't post it I expected that from someone that sells junk, I hope when I get home in April it's not to late to take them to small claims court and get my money back,in the meantime  I will give them lots of free advertising.
When this thing runs its course I will send them a link to this site and tell them there is always ways to get back at them through the internet.
If anyone has any other input/ or good ideas please let me know.
Thanks
Phil


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## JimDawson (Jan 24, 2015)

tigercat4519 said:


> Thanks guys and to anyone else reading about my CX701 Lathe problem, hopefully we can get lots of people commeting on this, I put a review on there site on the Lathe but they didn't post it I expected that from someone that sells junk, I hope when I get home in April it's not to late to take them to small claims court and get my money back,in the meantime  I will give them lots of free advertising.
> When this thing runs its course I will send them a link to this site and tell them there is always ways to get back at them through the internet.
> If anyone has any other input/ or good ideas please let me know.
> Thanks
> Phil




Sorry the hear about your problems.  Please make sure that you keep things factual when commenting. Opinions are fine, but state it as such.

I don't see any problems yet, just a gentle reminder for all.


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## Bishop (Jan 25, 2015)

I bought a small X2 clone from them and a bunch of accessories. When I had issues with the mill the store was of no help and like others have mentioned they were actually quite rude and indifferent. Now, If KMS tools doesn't have what I need I buy from reputable ebay dealers. Haven't had an issue yet that wasn't dealt with quickly and reasonably. Personally I would never order or recommend ordering from busy bee to anyone. There are far better options already mentioned above. 

Shawn


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## Eddyde (Jan 25, 2015)

I would go on every machine tool, trade & hobby forum I could find online and post warnings about that company. Also, do you have a department of consumer affairs or equivalent, in Canada?


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## HMF (Jan 25, 2015)

From what I understand, Busy Bee is owned by the brother of Grizzly Owner Shiraz Balolia. The production is similar to Grizzly, offshore, but less monitored. That was what I had heard, and this thread seems to support it.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Jan 25, 2015)

Nels, you are correct. One brother started in Bellingham, the other in Burnaby,(Vancouver). about an hour apart. Their wood working machinery generally gets OK reviews. They're a little cheaper than Grizzly on the small stuff, and until the CDN$ dropped, more expensive on the machinery. They handle more made-in-India Groz.


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## gramps1951 (Jan 25, 2015)

I'll keep it short. For some small tooling items etc they aren't too bad but for machinery they SUCK!! You would be better off buying old used North American equipment and rebuild it.


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## belongtotom (Jan 25, 2015)

Just a short note on the Busy Bee store in Calgary Ab which I see does not have a review as of yet . 
My dealings with them is as listed above , generally not good. But will have to say that dealings with Grizzly Tool to be a positive one  
One generally gets what one pays for "Buyer Beware"


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## giddie1 (Jan 26, 2015)

Hi all,
I am sorry to hear all the probs related to Busy Bee tools but as a new CX704 owner I feel I must weigh in on this subject. I purchased this lathe at the Ottawa store as I live about 50 kms north of Montreal and we have no machine tool outlets that I have been able to find other than King Canada. I found the staff, while busy, to be quite helpful and polite in an unrushed kind of way.

Now on to the machine itself. I have worked all my life as some form of mechanic/millwright and am quite used to the inherent quirks and problems of machine setup and installation. That being said I found the CX704, while quite a bit smaller than what I am used to, to be no different. Once it had been torn down and cleaned then reassembled and adjusted I have absolutely no complaints. After all it is a 729.00$ lathe. If used within it's capabilities it is a decent little machine. I love to tinker and for me this lathe holds a lot of promise.

Thanks


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## David S (Jan 26, 2015)

I think I will comment as well.  Over the past few years I have ordered small tooling etc on line from Busy Bee.  I have been satisfied with all the purchases.  I did buy a double ended center / edge finder that I thought was not accurate.  I emailed them and they sent a replacement no charge and didn't want the other on back.

My friend recently bought a B2227L Lathe from them and he found the guy in the Ottawa store very knowledgeable and friendly.  I have used his lathe and it appears decent with no problems so far.  About a week after  my friend bought the lathe I noticed that it was being offered on sale in the latest flyer.  My friend called them and they gave him a store credit for the difference.

Most recently he picked up one of their smaller bench top mills.  When we got it home we couldn't get it to turn on.  He told them, took it back and they gave him a new one.  Turns out the first one may have been ok, and that perhaps we weren't operating the obtuse power on sequence correctly.  I have only tried his mill once with a 12 mm cutter and it seems pretty rigid.

David


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## gramps1951 (Jan 26, 2015)

I too owned a B2227L lathe. The noisiest lathe I ever used and the repeatability was horrendous. I sold it and for less than I got for it I bought a South Bend 9A which makes the Craftex look exactly like what it it. A piece of Chinese scrap metal. My 60+ year old SB is a dream to operate and is quiet and accurate. I don't really care who sells them, the Chinese imports are junk, all of them. In my opinion of course for what it is worth.


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## tigercat4519 (Jan 26, 2015)

giddie1 said:


> Hi all,
> I am sorry to hear all the probs related to Busy Bee tools but as a new CX704 owner I feel I must weigh in on this subject. I purchased this lathe at the Ottawa store as I live about 50 kms north of Montreal and we have no machine tool outlets that I have been able to find other than King Canada. I found the staff, while busy, to be quite helpful and polite in an unrushed kind of way.
> 
> Now on to the machine itself. I have worked all my life as some form of mechanic/millwright and am quite used to the inherent quirks and problems of machine setup and installation. That being said I found the CX704, while quite a bit smaller than what I am used to, to be no different. Once it had been torn down and cleaned then reassembled and adjusted I have absolutely no complaints. After all it is a 729.00$ lathe. If used within it's capabilities it is a decent little machine. I love to tinker and for me this lathe holds a lot of promise.
> ...


Will you are welcome to try my CX701 if you are ever in Nova Scotia, you will find that this Lathe for $3600.00 is a terrible lathe and I have 25 years experience and have worked with a lot of good machinery over the years.


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## tigercat4519 (Jan 26, 2015)

gramps1951 said:


> I too owned a B2227L lathe. The noisiest lathe I ever used and the repeatability was horrendous. I sold it and for less than I got for it I bought a South Bend 9A which makes the Craftex look exactly like what it it. A piece of Chinese scrap metal. My 60+ year old SB is a dream to operate and is quiet and accurate. I don't really care who sells them, the Chinese imports are junk, all of them. In my opinion of course for what it is worth.


Thank you and that is 100 % true because I even contacted the Factory that made my Lathe in China and this is what they said: We can not help you because you didn't purchase the Lathe directly from us. Here in North America you would go back to the company that made the Lathe and I'm sure they would look after you.


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## aliva (Jan 26, 2015)

I was looking a buying a  lathe from Busy Bee but , changed my mind and bought a King Industrial 12x36. 
In light of all theses issued I'm happy I went King


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## Downwindtracker2 (Jan 26, 2015)

Chinese quality varies from factory to factory. A few years back my son and I went together and bought a stripped down CQ6125 250mm x 550mm from KMS. It was deeply discounted close-out. On line I looked for the accessories, reviews, and who made it. It turned out a couple of factories were making the copy of an Austrian lathe. At least the Chinese were using metal gears. The XIMA version tested true, the SIEG version needed some fitting. BusyBee, and King both sell the SIEG version. You can see the difference across the showroom. We got the XIMA version but had to buy separately the steady rest,4jaw,  fellow rest, faceplate, stand, and thread dial . Lathemaster sold a planetary geared pulley that cut the speed in half. Making it a useful lathe. 
  When my son moved out, I suggested that I buy him out, "No ,Dad, I'll buy you out." Now, I have a Taiwanese BusyBee DF1224g with electrical problems and no accessories.


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## bmw rider (Jan 27, 2015)

I feel like I must be one of the lucky ones. I bought one of the first bunch of the CX701 lathes Busy Bee just after they introduced the line; mine was actually the first one sold out of Calgary and I had to wait for it to come in as all they had was the demo model in stock. I've done quite a lot of work on it and so far have had no problems with it. I can't say how the customer service is for repairs as I've not needed to go there. In fact, my lathe is now past warranty anyway. I do hope it continues to work for me without problems. I wonder if at some point they switched to a poorer supplier to build them.


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## jaycan (Jan 27, 2015)

Hi
I have owned a B2227L with the mill attachment for 10 years. While it is not built to the weight and precision of a Southbend, it has been an adequate lathe and the only part I have had to replace is the Fwd-Off-Rev switch. You have to remember it is a gear head lathe which will be noisier than a belt drive but way more convenient. I run it with a 5" 3 jaw and a 6" 4 jaw chuck so it has not been babied. I have replaced the milling portion with a Grizzly G0755 mill as Busy Bee had nothing in its class. Also setting up a replacement lathe, new to me Standard Modern 1334 for increased capacity and precision.


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## David S (Jan 27, 2015)

bmw rider said:


> I feel like I must be one of the lucky ones. I bought one of the first bunch of the CX701 lathes Busy Bee just after they introduced the line; mine was actually the first one sold out of Calgary and I had to wait for it to come in as all they had was the demo model in stock. I've done quite a lot of work on it and so far have had no problems with it. I can't say how the customer service is for repairs as I've not needed to go there. In fact, my lathe is now past warranty anyway. I do hope it continues to work for me without problems. I wonder if at some point they switched to a poorer supplier to build them.



Regarding your last statement.  There could be some truth in that.  However there is also another dimension to this.  When I was working for a large consumer company our purchasing department was brutal and ruthless with our Chinese suppliers.  They just kept beating them down on price.

When I had to go to China and visit some of our supplier it was embarrassing to have to face them since they were really trying to do a great job.  I visited first tier suppliers and third tier with dirt floors.  While the best were capable of fantastic quality, some of the third tier ..not so much.

Someone recommended a book "Poorly made in China" to me.  It was a good read since I had experienced many of the examples in the book.

David


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## tigercat4519 (Feb 1, 2015)

bmw rider said:


> I feel like I must be one of the lucky ones. I bought one of the first bunch of the CX701 lathes Busy Bee just after they introduced the line; mine was actually the first one sold out of Calgary and I had to wait for it to come in as all they had was the demo model in stock. I've done quite a lot of work on it and so far have had no problems with it. I can't say how the customer service is for repairs as I've not needed to go there. In fact, my lathe is now past warranty anyway. I do hope it continues to work for me without problems. I wonder if at some point they switched to a poorer supplier to build them.



Hi I don't know if they switched suppliers, how is yours for viberation in the higher RPM's also when you are using it is there any leakage of oil from the aporn gear box? Thanks


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## Starlight Tools (Feb 2, 2015)

Downwindtracker2 said:


> Nels, you are correct. One brother started in Bellingham, the other in Burnaby,(Vancouver). about an hour apart. Their wood working machinery generally gets OK reviews. They're a little cheaper than Grizzly on the small stuff, and until the CDN$ dropped, more expensive on the machinery. They handle more made-in-India Groz.



Correction, both stores were started by Shiraz.  He was shopping for a drill press to do repairs on his rifles and did not like the local pricing, so he contacted a number of factories in Taiwan, until he got a quoted price.  He found that if he ordered more than one drill press the price per unit came down, so he went to his shooting buddies and offered to get them each a drill press at a XX price.  When the presses came in and were distributed, others came along and wanted one too, along with other tools.  Before they knew it they had a thriving business selling tools and machinery.  There were three brothers all involved with BB.  A number of years later, there was a dispute about Quality Control and Shiraz left the company, moved to Bellingham and started Grizzly, with each having a contract that they would not ship across the border.  That contract expired a few years ago, now they are both free to ship.

I give Shiraz a lot of credit for his Quality Control and after sales service, which has made him a major contender in the machine tool market in the US.

Walter


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## Starlight Tools (Feb 3, 2015)

Downwindtracker2 said:


> Nels, you are correct. One brother started in Bellingham, the other in Burnaby,(Vancouver). about an hour apart. Their wood working machinery generally gets OK reviews. They're a little cheaper than Grizzly on the small stuff, and until the CDN$ dropped, more expensive on the machinery. They handle more made-in-India Groz.



Groz is a manufacturing factory in India that turns out a lot of very nice machine tool supplies.  They were first trained when England Colonized India, and have been doing this kind of work for centuries.  The main importer for Groz is located in the Seattle area, and one of his biggest clients was Boeing Aircraft.

He was a friend of the Balolia Family and he supplied them with a lot of his products, So these products can be found in both the BB and Grizzly stores and were also available from the other brother's store while it was open.

Now things may have changed over the years, but when I was in that area, Groz was considered as a decent brand, not a Starrett or Mititoyo, but definitely not that far behind.  I have been very happy with any of the Groz products that I have obtained.

Walter


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## boz (Feb 18, 2015)

tigercat4519 said:


> *Hi to all Canadians and any one else on here that may be considering buying from Busy Bee Tools. I  purchased a lathe from them in September 2014 the CX701 and on start up the gearbox took out 2 gears and bent one shaft, they said no problem it was under warranty, so from there on in all I got was a runaround, finally I told them I had handed it over to the credit card people and by then I told them that I wanted a new lathe because why should I have to do my own repairs on a lathe that I just paid $3600.00 for, while this was going on the parts arrived but was told by the credit card people to not install them which I got nothing from another joke, Parts are sitting home still not installed.
> The Lathe is not something you want to wast your money on it viberates and the Apron gear box leaks oil enought that if I have to keep it I will have to take it apart and try to stop the oil, I have 25 years experience on Lathes and any thing Busy Bee sells you that is made in China forget warranty you are on your own they will not have someone come out and repair it for you or even come out and look at it and the store in Nova Scotia is only about 20 miles from my house.
> Just wanted to warn people not to wast your money on any thing Busy Bee sells and I'm not the first one that this has happened to, I'm in Florida for the winter and when I get home I'm hoping to see if I can take them to small claims court.
> 
> ...


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## boz (Feb 18, 2015)

I purchased a craftex701 from busy bee Calgary. Had some minor issues and found the store and busy bee web site customer service helpful . Within a week my issues were resolved. New change gear bushing and additional user manual pages were provided.
Boz


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## Tozguy (May 17, 2015)

I bought a CT043N lathe through the BB Ottawa store two years ago. The service from Rock and his son Zachary was excellent. The only waranty issue I had during the first year was negotiated throught the Toronto office. They sent me some new D1-4 cams promptly.

The lathe has served me well and consider that it to be a lot of machinery for what I paid. However no retailler sells an 8000$ new lathe with quality customer support for 3000$. Having a bit of experience with machines it was obvious that the CT043N needed much cleaning, tuning and tweaking from the get-go. But I never expected to get any new machine in such poor condition.  I kept reminding myself that it was work I could do and that it had saved me money on the purchase price.

I was lucky to notice and fix stuff on the lathe before it was too late, or things would have turned out much differently. I have no trouble believing the horror stories from other owners. But don't blame the Chinese, the only reason stuff like this is on the market is because we buy it.


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## juiceclone (May 17, 2015)

I had a brief email exchange with busy bee a while back, to no avail and I see that my opinion was correct.  Welcome to the 21st century of no business ethics.!       That lathe is manufactured by Sumore tools in Shanghai.    I have a nearly similar model and have had no complaints.   From what I see of BB's offerings it seems that they may be selling older? models of the Sumore line.... You have to look in the details.


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## Travis7s (May 21, 2015)

My main gripe is they don't list if things are out of stock online, so when you place an order half of it is on backorder with no estimate when it will be in.


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## q20v (Jun 11, 2015)

> Chinese quality varies from factory to factory. A few years back my son and I went together and bought a stripped down CQ6125 250mm x 550mm from KMS. It was deeply discounted close-out. On line I looked for the accessories, reviews, and who made it. It turned out a couple of factories were making the copy of an Austrian lathe. At least the Chinese were using metal gears. The XIMA version tested true, the SIEG version needed some fitting. BusyBee, and King both sell the SIEG version. You can see the difference across the showroom. We got the XIMA version but had to buy separately the steady rest,4jaw, fellow rest, faceplate, stand, and thread dial . Lathemaster sold a planetary geared pulley that cut the speed in half. Making it a useful lathe.
> When my son moved out, I suggested that I buy him out, "No ,Dad, I'll buy you out." Now, I have a Taiwanese BusyBee DF1224g with electrical problems and no accessories.



I have the same BB DF1224g lathe and have it working fairly well. Let me know if you need pictures of the electrical box or anything else to help with your setup.

Barry


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## shopguy (Dec 10, 2015)

Hello everyone,
      I just joined this group and this is my first post.  There seems to be quite a few people in this group that have had bad experiences with either service or quality of machines purchased from Busy Bee.  I would like to offer my own experience and opinions concerning Busy Bee (Ottawa store).

     -  Craftex mill drill model B1977 made in Taiwan, purchased new in 2007 I added power feed and DRO, set up on cabinet stand which is anchored to my basement shop concrete floor, the machine is perfectly level and very secure. Also changed pulley belts with link belts. I have had no issues with it in the 8 years that I have been using it, and have used it extensively.
     - Craftex drill press model CT019 made in China, purchased new in 2006. Changed original pulley belts for link belts. I mounted the drill press to a very solid wooden stand that I built with levelling feet and use it regularly, I have had no issues with it in the 9 years that I have owned it.
     - Craftex swivel metal cutting bandsaw model B2544, made in China, purchased new in 2006. Changed original pulley belt for link belt. I have used this machine extensively to cut both Metal and Wood. I have had no issues with it in the 9 years that I have owned it.
     - Craftex metal lathe (13" x 24") model CT089, made in China, purchased new in 2014. Changed original pulley belt for link belt. Changed spindle bearings immediately for high quality bearings. (this was done by choice, never even used machine with stock bearings). The machine is mounted to the stand and anchored to cement floor perfectly level and very secure. I use this machine regularly and I have had no issues with it in the 2 years that I have owned it.
     - Three (3) ton arbor press sold by Busy Bee, purchased new in 2009. no issues.

     In addition, I have purchased tooling, and many other various supplies from Busy Bee Ottawa and have always been treated very well and had no problems of any kind.


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## q20v (Dec 24, 2015)

shopguy,

I agree with you regarding the staff at the Ottawa location, they've always been helpful to me as well.
Good to hear of your successes with the Craftex brand.. Although it may be lower quality compared to some other big names, if you maintain the equipment and don't abuse it, it can produce very good results for a long time.

Barry


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## Dabbler (Jan 19, 2017)

(great big breath)...  I have read this entire thread several times now, and I feel that it would be good to add my $.02.

I have dealt with Busy Bee since 1981.  For the first 15 years or so, I dealt with one of the owners from their Burnaby showroom.  I purchased a 12X37 lathe and a B048 32"X6" milling machine, along with several thousand dollars worth of accessories in the mid 80s and early 90s.  They were both made in Taiwan. During that time their quality was better than anything I could buy for double the price. I was very satisfied and a devoted customer.

Before I say the next thing, let me explain:  I have 40 years machining experience on all kinds of machines in about 6 shops and have used name brand machines and Taiwanese and Chinese tools regularly over that time....

(shuffles feet and looks a little nervous) Now to the present.  Something happened to this company in the late 90s.  I have used recently purchased lathes from BB but not their mills.  From a visual inspection and using their lathes I FEEL that the quality, fit and accuracy has gone downhill a loooong way.  Not only that, but they have ceased to carry a full line of accessories, so it leaves you looking for a few crucial pieces once you get started. 

I gave them a chance three years ago and bought a VFD 18" bandsaw from them, A CX-101.  It works very well, and needed only a little tweaking to get it to perform well.  So If you have  a LOT of experience you can cherry pick their good stuff, then you can still get good deals and great equipment there.

About the Calgary store...  (after very carefully thinking this through)  There is only one guy in the Calgary store to talk to.  His name is John, and he has a small amount of knowledge, but admits his limits.  Everyone else on the staff have no knowledge whatsoever of metalworking or woodworking machines.  I still buy expendable supplies and small tools there and visit the store on a regular basis.   I have gone in to buy stuff because they are very close, and been steered away, only to find that the thing I wanted was on the shelf.  I now know the store better than most of the employees and don't have to ask.

So in conclusion...  I still buy sanding belts, cemented carbides, and other shop expendables there, usually on sale.  Whenever they put a Groz cutter on sale I buy it if I need it.  I would steer very clear of their lathes.  As far as their mills go, better deals are to be had at Modern and Grizzly.  I have been treated well at the Calgary branch by management, and they have taken back returns of anything defective. Caveat Emptor.


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## Hidyn (Feb 22, 2017)

I've read this thread a few times myself whilst pondering a sizable purchase from BB. Thanks for the updated thoughts!


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## GerryG (Feb 22, 2017)

I'm also considering a lathe purchase from Busy Bee in Pickering.  Has anybody dealt with the staff at that store or perhaps the Barrie location?


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## JohnnyTK (Feb 22, 2017)

My first experience as newbie to machining, but coming from a diesel and refrigeration background was not a positive one at the Mississauga location. I was looking at tooling up and began to ask the sales person about the lathes, drill presses and cut off saws, he told me he had no idea about metal working. So then I decided to ask him some questions about some wood working tooling, that I was also interested in and again I got the same response. So I left and made my purchases at other vendors. I have stopped in a bought some tools and supplies due to convenience.


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## slow-poke (May 28, 2017)

The customer service in the Mississauga store during my one and only visit was so bad I have never returned.


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## GerryG (May 30, 2017)

Well, I finally pulled the trigger and bought a CX706 lathe from the Pickering Busy Bee.  A month later I bought a CX600 milling machine from the same store.  Both buying experiences were great, I even got some warranty parts for the lathe.  I dealt with Ken, very approachable and seems to know his way around the machines, but only works there part time.  Have also ordered some warranty parts from the head office.  We'll see how long that takes.


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## The_Apprentice (Jun 21, 2017)

Interesting thread.... I was recently at the Mississauga store myself (for the first time). I can't say I ran into any rudeness, but that is maybe because I really didn't speak to anyone in particular (just came to browse lathes). The woman on the phone to the store had a New Yorkish accent, which does come across as rude to many Canadians, but I believe it's more of a dialect/accent issue, and is due to culture differences, not that she was particularly rude or anything. So I just wanted to make that clear. She did answer my two questions about the store promptly and we had no issues.

So... I came very close to picking up the CX mini-lathe at Busy Bee, but instead went with the 07x12 KING, due to having hardend-bedways and a 5.5 amp vs the lesser amp of the CX. In fact, I already had the KING in the trunk of my car (having just picked it up in Hamilton that morning). But it was nice to stop by so I could actually SEE and touch the array of Craftex's they had.

I suppose I could have asked the two salesmen who came up to me questions, but I highly doubt they would have known the answers to anything I had to ask. It is not so easy for people to have full product knowledge on everything in store, and if they did, usually they wouldn't be working as a salesperson in the first place. Ok, maybe you can argue that...

When/if I upscale my lathe in the future, I may still look into BusyBee down the road.


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## Buffalo20 (Jun 21, 2017)

The_Apprentice said:


> The woman on the phone to the store had a New Yorkish accent, which does come across as rude to many Canadians,




New Yorkers are not rude, you Canadians are just extremely polite..........................


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## Dabbler (Jun 22, 2017)

I have to give an update...  The buyer for BB seems to lack understanding that if you buy a carbide tool from them, then they should stock the carbide inserts for at least a few years so replacements can be bought.  They have very poor coverage for tooling, and it is getting worse.  I don't do much woodworking these days, so my WW needs are low.  For metalworking, I'm now steering clear, even for expendables.  Just not worth it.  Since January, they are stocking less and less, and deleting SKUs for too many necessary things.  Now that Shars has their shipping stuff worked out,  much of my business has gone there - and to Accusize in Toronto.  I shop Grizzly in person every time I'm in Bellingham.

For a rank beginner, there is some stuff you can get there.  After that, you are on your own.

Sorry BB, the the love affair is over.


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## charlton (Oct 26, 2017)

Dabbler said:


> I have to give an update...  The buyer for BB seems to lack understanding that if you buy a carbide tool from them, then they should stock the carbide inserts for at least a few years so replacements can be bought.  They have very poor coverage for tooling, and it is getting worse.  I don't do much woodworking these days, so my WW needs are low.  For metalworking, I'm now steering clear, even for expendables.  Just not worth it.  Since January, they are stocking less and less, and deleting SKUs for too many necessary things.  Now that Shars has their shipping stuff worked out,  much of my business has gone there - and to Accusize in Toronto.  I shop Grizzly in person every time I'm in Bellingham.
> 
> For a rank beginner, there is some stuff you can get there.  After that, you are on your own.
> 
> Sorry BB, the the love affair is over.



Can you clarify what you mean by "Shars has their shipping stuff worked out?" I've wanted to buy stuff from Shars or their ebay store (discount_machines, I think it was) and shipping was always exorbitant to the point of not really making it worthwhile.


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## Dabbler (Oct 26, 2017)

Sure...  I talked to their technical guy.  If I order over the phone they will ship via truck (assuming that what you are shipping is heavy, which mine was).  Since I live across the border I will not allow any UPS shipments, which is their normal preferred shipper.  (long story)

The price to ship a 6 jaw 6" chuck with backing plate was cut to about 1/3 or the UPS price, and made it very attractive.

BTW  I've found that most of the BusyBee stuff is either exactly the same as, or directy from, Bangood.com - and Bangood will ship to Canada at minimal cost.  I'm going to give them a try in the mext month or so.


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## charlton (Oct 26, 2017)

Thanks for that update. It's good to know. Yeah, UPS is such a pain and I'm pretty sure that all of us Canadians have long stories about getting robbed.


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## HRgx (Oct 31, 2017)

Because I've purchased a bit of tooling from the Calgary Busy Bee tool store for a bit, I've read every single post within this thread. I did not know of KMS tools also in Calgary. I feel compeled to post my assessment of both stores. It all came about searching for a DRO for my lathe. I came upon the iGaging site and figured that their Absolute DRO would fit my needs. The iGaging websites names both Busy Bee and KMS as approved dealers. As such, I proceeded to call both to enquire about a purchase. Needless to say, my first call was to Busy Bee. The response was alike to all that I've had in the past. Very little product knowledge. In fact, the folks there don't even seem to care. Heck, if if don't even give a darn, you could at least fake it. Now, off to KMS I go. After asking the clerk about my needs, he sheepishly admits to not knowing anything about what I'm speaking off. So, he calls in the manager. Buddy takes me into his office, goes on the confuser and searches his iGaging database. Yup, we can bring in the Absolute DRO for you in whatever scale length you need. Invites my to come across his desk and allows me to view the specifications on his confuser screen in order to make the right choice. Needless to say, KMS has my order and Busy Bee will not likely see my rear end walk through their doors again. The manager at KMS also informed me that the poor service at Busy Bee was their best advertising. No kidding eh?


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## charlton (Oct 31, 2017)

There are definitely a lot of things I don't much like about Busy Bee and the general lack of knowledge by their staff is one of them. That being said, the staff at the Concord store are at least friendly. What irks me about Busy Bee, though, is their e-commerce is pretty terrible and store stock is always a hit and miss. If there wasn't a Busy Bee here in Toronto, there would definitely be one less source of choice which would be a bad thing. There is no KMS here and shipping from KMS usually kills most deals. KBC isn't too far away but their prices are pretty high (though, in truth, the stuff they sell seems to be better quality in general). We lack so much as Canadians in terms of choice. I bought some end mills from ebay and noticed that they're shipping out of North Bay yet there doesn't seem to be any savings to be realized from the fact that they're in the same province. You want machinery? For home hobbyists, you basically have...Craftex or King Canada and that's it. You can order from Grizzly (I have quite a few woodworking machines from them) but choice is definitely anemic compared to our counterparts down south.

HRgx, do you follow AvE what with the confuser and all.


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## rzbill (Oct 31, 2017)

bangood.com?  I have had zero luck getting that site to come up. Is it still active?


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## charlton (Oct 31, 2017)

Banggood.com

You're missing a g.


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## HRgx (Nov 1, 2017)

charlton said:


> There are definitely a lot of things I don't much like about Busy Bee and the general lack of knowledge by their staff is one of them. That being said, the staff at the Concord store are at least friendly. What irks me about Busy Bee, though, is their e-commerce is pretty terrible and store stock is always a hit and miss. If there wasn't a Busy Bee here in Toronto, there would definitely be one less source of choice which would be a bad thing. There is no KMS here and shipping from KMS usually kills most deals. KBC isn't too far away but their prices are pretty high (though, in truth, the stuff they sell seems to be better quality in general). We lack so much as Canadians in terms of choice. I bought some end mills from ebay and noticed that they're shipping out of North Bay yet there doesn't seem to be any savings to be realized from the fact that they're in the same province. You want machinery? For home hobbyists, you basically have...Craftex or King Canada and that's it. You can order from Grizzly (I have quite a few woodworking machines from them) but choice is definitely anemic compared to our counterparts down south.
> 
> HRgx, do you follow AvE what with the confuser and all.



Sorry charlton, what is this AvE that you mention?


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## charlton (Nov 1, 2017)

Oh sorry. He's just a YouTube guy (Canadian no less) that I thought you might follow because he always refers to the computer as the confuser.


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## HRgx (Nov 1, 2017)

charlton said:


> Oh sorry. He's just a YouTube guy (Canadian no less) that I thought you might follow because he always refers to the computer as the confuser.


Ah! I see, no I don't follow this fellow on the Tube. The only guy that I do follow is Joe Pieczynski in terms of machining.


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## Dabbler (Nov 1, 2017)

HRgx: 'oxtool' and 'Stephan Gotteswinter' might be good candidates if yolu want to broaden your youtube watching...


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## Downwindtracker2 (Nov 2, 2017)

I've been buying tools from KMS since '86 or '87. In those days they were in small store front in a strip mall, behind the liquor store in Mallardville.  KMS got their start importing Speedaire compressors. They do auto body, air tools, welding, and construction carpentry tools well. Woodworking tools, OK, but machine tools, you are asking a lot out of a welder.


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## HRgx (Nov 2, 2017)

I had sent an email to Busy Bee's customer service describing my latest experience and lack of confidence in the actual customer service. Well, today I've received a phone call from the lady who is the store manager at the Calgary location. She was very apologetic and even stated that the staff doesn't receive any training whatsoever. I replied that I surely wasn't expecting any one to be fired as I do realize that folks need to put bread and butter on the table same as the rest of us. My conversation with the lady was very pleasant and she stated that she wished to not loose my small amount of business. All being said, we ended our conversation on a friendly tone. However, I will deal with KMS in the near future and still look to Busy Bee should KMS not stock items that I'm searching for. My final thoughts are that Busy Bee's issues reside more at a corporate level than those at the retail end.


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## Dabbler (Nov 17, 2017)

HRgx said:


> My final thoughts are that Busy Bee's issues reside more at a corporate level than those at the retail end.



I like Bev at the Calgary branch, and buy my HSS tool bits from them and any 'Glanze' carbide tools that go on sale, and that I can use.  - But you have to be your own tech support for most things.  If in the Calgary store, talk to John.  He doesn't know a heap, but he is helpful and doesn't pretend to know what he doesn't.  Most of the staff there don't do any metalwork or woodwork.  Go figure.

Just to add another tool in the toolbox (an hopefully not to confuse things)  I buy some of my things at KBC out of Vancouver.  They ship right to my door at about the price of gas to go elsewhere.  They have a lot of 'real' tools and consumables, but you have to compare prices.  I ordered 6 grinding wheels from them this summer with prices better than I could get anywhere else.  On the other hand there's lots of stuff they sell that is cheaper at KBC and Accusize.

Good hunting!


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## HBilly1022 (Nov 17, 2017)

GerryG said:


> I even got some warranty parts for the lathe.  Have also ordered some warranty parts from the head office.  We'll see how long that takes.



Just for clarity ... does that mean your new machines needed warranty repairs?


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## brino (Nov 18, 2017)

HRgx said:


> I've received a phone call from the lady who is the store manager at the Calgary location. She was very apologetic and even stated that the staff doesn't receive any training whatsoever.





Dabbler said:


> Most of the staff there don't do any metalwork or woodwork. Go figure.



To me this this sounds completely ridiculous and the blame _HAS_ to land squarely on management......apparently they cannot hire and train workers competent in the tasks required. This is either because of money (ie. they cannot afford knowledgeable employees) or incompetence.

Either way it's tough making a case for using them as a supplier.
i) you cannot trust anything they say, and 
ii) due to "market forces" they may not be there to honour any warranty claims for anything you do buy.

I hate to see it this way and definitely do NOT want it to be a "self-fulfilling prophecy". 
We need all the suppliers we can get here.

However,  I am not very positive on Busy Bee and their long-term success.
They have always seemed to be "Princess Auto" quality, but at more than double the price.
At least at Princess Auto, you know what you're getting and pay accordingly.
Unfortunately, the range of products are not comparable.

-brino


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## Dabbler (Nov 19, 2017)

I started out as an enthusiastic and loyal customer of the Richmond branch when they first moved out of the basement...  in 1981.  All of their metalworking equipment was Taiwan made and in the middle or a little better for quality.  It helped that their buyer (who left and founded Grizzly) was well versed in metalworking and knew some good stuff (not a machinist, though).

So I have been there over the entire time, been my own tech support for the most part, and ordered what I needed based on my own judgement.

It is sad to say they now buy from the cheapest suppliers, no longer have anyone (at least in Calgary and BC) that do any metalworking, and the few woodworkers don't use BB equipment.  There has been a very slow decline, but I think they are near bottom.

I still buy HSS tooling and Glanze products from them, because they are cheaper than Accusize.  Once they lose that advantage, it's a final goodbye.

Oh - their 49$ surface plate isn't bad for the price.  Not a Mitotoyo, but adequate for a home shop.  (what can I say I have that BB and also an A grade plate from Mitutoyo - the BB one is my lapping plate).


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## Tozguy (Nov 19, 2017)

Busy Bee has been around for a while now and seem to be going strong as a business. That says something. Consumers don't want to pay more than they have to so the 'lowest' price is always attractive. Just look at the popularity of dollar stores. 

To sell at the lowest prices and survive a business has to have the lowest costs as we all know. To me it is not logical to expect BB to have experienced and informed sales people as this means they would have to pay higher salaries in todays labor market. As the consumer we would ultimately have to pay more. BB would become another KBC.

So to take advantage of the low prices at BB (or anywhere else) we have to do our own research and consult 'experts' when advice is needed. This HM website is a great place to get the tech support that is lacking at BB. Eventually as we learn the ropes we may end up leaving BB behind as Dappler so aptly described in his post above.

There are other suppliers who can serve us. They have been around for a long time too and offer excellent guidance and advice. We each have to decide for ourselves what this is worth to us. My experience with BB has been positive overall. There may be some tools I might not have afforded if not for BB. After years of buying from BB and other suppliers I have a clearer understanding of what to expect from who.


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## Dabbler (Nov 19, 2017)

Just a heads up Tozguy.  Their lathes are rather expensive Modern Tool has a better lathe cheaper then their largest, for instance.  For the same price, shipped, and several of the Grizzly mills have much better quality and features.  The only place where they are cheaper is in some of the tooling, which needs to be comparison shopped.  Much of their woodworking equipment cn be had for similar or cheaper prices elsewhere.

What I have been trying to get at is - at BB's price point their quality has slipped.  If they were to start to offer better quality, they might survive.  For now the unsatisfied customer pile is getting bigger, and that does not bode well for them.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Nov 19, 2017)

Dabber, a question about BusyBee . I picked up a older BB 4x6 bandsaw . What's odd is that instead of the stickers, it has riveted name plate and no machine specs. Usually Taiwan machines have date on them. Ant idea when BB would have  imported the little Rong Fu#115 ?


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## Dabbler (Nov 19, 2017)

*Downwindtracker2*:  BB continued to import from Taiwan long after the guy I mentioned went to Grizzly.  Somewhere around 1986 I started seeing 'made in china' stickers on select machines, usually the bottom end, and at super cheap prices.  The first one I remember was a little 5X20" lathe in red, where the dovetails had about .010 play in them.  However "Rong Fu" is a Taiwanese company.  Recently they have been manufacturing in China, importing to Taiwan then reselling to N America.  If it is more than 5 years old chances are it is 100% Tai.

I think BB saws from China came later, sometime in the early 1990s.  

By the way, their 18" VFD band saw and their horizontal pivot-head 5X7 saws seem to be made in taiwan (or at least the castings are)  I found a 'made in taiwan' sticker surriptiously pasted inside my vertical bandsaw. 

The odd thing they sell from China is pretty good - but without sales training and qualified people it is caveat emptor!  I still buy 'Glanze' carbide accessories from BB because they are the lowest price for a good product.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Nov 19, 2017)

Thanks . I see more Made In India tooling at BB than at Grizzly. Or at least they have company named stuff, Groz.  I have now four BB machines, all bought used, they were cheap. One of which is decent , a '91 DF 1224g lathe.  I came down from northern BC in '86 , they had moved to Burnaby by then.

 The tool in question is a 4x6 bandsaw.  I had bought a TWS 4x6 for $50. Every time I used it, it seemed I had to fix something. The curse of the cheap 4x6. Sort of like rolling the rock up the hill. This time I wanted to cut some 3" 3/8" angle squarish. The vise was as rigid as a fish on the bottom of a boat. This time the vise t-nut was beyond redemption . It's not hard to fix better than new on these imports. I was going all out, I was even going to paint it. When I opened the gearbox which had been stuffed full of grease to clean it, I cut my glove on the gear. It had a 1/4 turn of backlash. Grease doesn't work. That's when I checked CL and found this real early BB 4x6 bandsaw. for $100. 

 The TWS 4x6 was a better design, the guide adjustment was on the exterior and went closer together. A little sturdier too. The guide bearing were larger. The upper wheel had bearings and not a bushing. Casting finish wasn't as nice, though.  I had visited TWS in the late '80s , a one man show in an empty warehouse.

With the experience of what wore out on the TWS, I'll do some mods on the Rong Fu #115. At least I don't have to paint it.


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## Dabbler (Nov 20, 2017)

cool... I have the same or similar lathe, a DF1237, bought in '81.  It has an unusual 2 3/8 8TPI spindle - is your spindle the same or is yours D1-4?

I ended up with an Emerson 7X12 horiz band saw, after checking out the 5X7 BB.  I'm glad I did - however it needs a rebuild bad, it was made sometime around 1966-1968...  I got it for about half the BB price, but it will take 40 hours or so of rebuild work to make it like new again! 

I think your early CL BB band saw will work out for you.  My friend has a 1987 Taiwanese 5X7 cast horiz band saw.   He's used it ever since, no troubles at all.  It doesn't cut perfectly straight, never did, but it does the job well otherwise.  (on a 2" round, it veers off by about .015, not too shabby).


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## Downwindtracker2 (Nov 20, 2017)

Bandsaws, even industrial ones, are , at best, a good'nuff sort of tool.

I have that same spindle nose. It's truly odd. It's a DIN,60mm, German spec, except it has 8 TPI. But, it has maintenance issues .It looks like the motor side pulley on the jack shaft is turning on the shaft. . This not a good thing. I would be surprised if they aren't spun. I was using to make parts for a 4x6 bandsaw, which I was modifying so I could make parts for a shop built metal shaper I was completing. I'm more than little backed up. However, the lathe needed seals and a new belt. I have 3 phase motor and VFD for it . So after two years of ownership I guess it's time.


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## Dabbler (Nov 20, 2017)

Thanks for the heads-up on the spindle! I always wondered about it!  

My seals are toast, too - from moving it.  I'm sure the moving company dropped it on the spindle nose, as the extreme left seals were totally hatched.  I have to remove the entire spindle to replace all 4 seals, which is needed now...

Sorry about the jack shaft - at least it is fixable with some work.  It is a dependable lathe.  BTW mine still has the original 1.5 HP 1725 motor on it...  Maybe one day there's another VFD in my future!

Next time I go to White Rock, I'll give you a heads-up.  We could meet for coffee!


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## Downwindtracker2 (Nov 20, 2017)

Sound good.

Looking in, it looks like all three shafts have to come out. At least my spindle bearing sound good . Big screw driver to the good ear. Tomorrow I'm going check on a tenth dial indicator, ouch. for when I reassemble. To be honest, I've never done bearing clearances on something this small.


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