# Shars vs discount_machine



## mwill135 (Sep 18, 2020)

So is it just me or is discount_machine on Ebay just Shars but on Ebay? Or is this an outlet that sells Shars returns etc?


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## darkzero (Sep 18, 2020)

Yeah it is Shars.


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## mwill135 (Sep 18, 2020)

Ok???? but its about 10-20% cheaper?


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## Masterjuggler (Sep 18, 2020)

I've noticed that too and never found out why. They are routinely cheaper than the shars website.


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## darkzero (Sep 18, 2020)

And???

If you would rather pay more, buy from their website.  

I never buy from their website, they also charge more for shipping than what they charge on ebay. But on ebay they don't have everything listed that is available on their website.


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## mwill135 (Sep 18, 2020)

Makes me curious if its returned product etc. Don't want a something that was out of spec


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## Masterjuggler (Sep 18, 2020)

darkzero said:


> But on ebay tbey don't have everything listed that is available on their website.


I've messaged them about a few things before that wasn't on their ebay, and they added it within a few hours for me. 



mwill135 said:


> Makes me curious if its returned product etc. Don't want a something that was out of spec


The things I've gotten are brand new as far as I can tell. Like a QCTP set with everything still in their bags with the light oil film and no signs of the cardboard box having been opened.


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## mwill135 (Sep 18, 2020)

I'm thinking of getting their ER40 collet chuck and backing plate


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## Ulma Doctor (Sep 18, 2020)

mwill135 said:


> Makes me curious if its returned product etc. Don't want a something that was out of spec


i have purchased from both, they sell the same products


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## middle.road (Sep 18, 2020)

They're the same company. 
And as noted if you call them they either put up a listing on eBay or make you a deal on the phone.
I've had it go both ways over the years.


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## gr8legs (Sep 18, 2020)

Yes, it is a bit hard to understand their continuing eBay presence with better than website or catalog prices - plus the hit from eBay fees.

I am guessing they get a lot of exposure and sell a lot of product through eBay and the tradeoff is worth it. It is much easier to comparison shop on eBay and that could send them a lot more business than trying to figure out how to reach their target market cost effectively. That's the biggest challenge nowadays unless you have unlimited advertising dollars to throw at something.

I am surprised they don't harvest the email addresses from their  eBay sales and market directly to their new found customers with eBay prices and bypass the eBay fees - but there must be a reason, they're not stupid.

That said I've been happy with all my Shars purchases on eBay and encourage them to stay right there with their current price points.

YMMV and all that,

Stu


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## darkzero (Sep 19, 2020)

gr8legs said:


> I am surprised they don't harvest the email addresses from their eBay sales and market directly to their new found customers with eBay prices and bypass the eBay fees - but there must be a reason, they're not stupid.



One reason is cause they can't obtain a buyer's contact info through ebay. Ebay now hides it all, both for the seller & buyer. The paypal transaction for the ebay purchase will also have contact info hidden. Ebay also scans messages & listings for this as it's against their policy.


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## erikmannie (Sep 19, 2020)

During my busy season at work, I loaded up on Shars metrology equipment. Months later, when I finally got to using it, I was beyond horrified about how poor the quality is.

Shars products look great in photos and are very affordable, but it is Made in China junk. About a third of the things that I bought are completely useless.

I would suggest looking online for deals on quality used equipment.


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## Masterjuggler (Sep 19, 2020)

It's like walking into horrible freight; there are a lot of things they can't screw up, and there are a lot of things they will always screw up. Cheap dial indicators are great, deburring tools, etc. I wouldn't want to buy a set of gage blocks or a tenths indicator.


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## erikmannie (Sep 19, 2020)

Masterjuggler said:


> It's like walking into horrible freight; there are a lot of things they can't screw up, and there are a lot of things they will always screw up. Cheap dial indicators are great, deburring tools, etc. I wouldn't want to buy a set of gage blocks or a tenths indicator.



After buying all that stuff from Shars, I now run as soon as I see Made in China.


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## darkzero (Sep 19, 2020)

Not everything made in China is junk. They'll make junk if the customer only wants to pay for junk to be produced. USA makes their share of crap quality products too as does many other countries. You get what you pay for.


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## mickri (Sep 19, 2020)

I have bought directly from Shars and off Ebay.  I have been satisfied with what I have bought from them and will continue to buy from them in the future.  I do shop when I am looking for something.  The only place that I never buy from is Amazon for a variety of reasons.


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## Ulma Doctor (Sep 19, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> I now run as soon as I see Made in China.



if the price is too good to be true, don't expect much and you won't be disappointed.
not everything Chinese is junk


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## erikmannie (Sep 19, 2020)

darkzero said:


> Not everything made in China is junk. They'll make junk if the customer only wants to pay for junk to be produced. USA makes their share of crap quality products too as does many other countries. You get what you pay for.



I spent about $3,000 on Shars products, and I am convinced that they “want to pay for junk to be produced”.

Obviously, this is just my opinion. I do use the Shars stuff for roughing and as beaters.


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## Masterjuggler (Sep 19, 2020)

Ok, now I must ask, why did you spend so much before deciding that it was all garbage? Was it several very large ticket items, or a cubic butt ton of the usual consumables?


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## darkzero (Sep 19, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> I spent about $3,000 on Shars products, and I am convinced that they “want to pay for junk to be produced”.



That was your decision to spend that much at Shars for measuring tools from Shars, nope not me & not ever. You may think they are junk all you want & that may true but stop preaching it here, it serves no purpose.

Cheap economy tools have their place. Not everyone can afford quality tools all the time. Not everyone will buy an expensive quality tool that may not get used much. Point is they work, how well they work is a different story.


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## erikmannie (Sep 19, 2020)

I worked 65 hours a week for 3 months. I would buy something almost every day. It was about 12 micrometers, gage block sets, angle blocks, angle plate, tap guide, center finder, dial calipers, combination square, boring head, boring bars, (test) dial indicators, fly cutter, machinist square, thread pitch gauges, fishtail, 1-2-3 blocks, sine bar, telescoping gauges, dividers, etc. In other words, items that are found in a machinist’s tool chest.


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## erikmannie (Sep 19, 2020)

darkzero said:


> That was your decision to spend that much at Shars for measuring tools from Shars, nope not me & not ever. You may think they are junk all you want & that may true but stop preaching it here, it serves no purpose.
> 
> Cheap economy tools have their place. Not everyone can afford quality tools all the time. Not everyone will buy an expensive quality tool that may not get used much. Point is they work, how well they work is a different story.



The digital electronic micrometers and inside micrometers are not repeatable, and many gage blocks are out of spec when measured with Starrett micrometers.

I really don’t think that Shars stuff is good enough even for hobby machining. Quality used items can be found for the same or less money. I don’t think that buying junk is ever a good value.


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## Masterjuggler (Sep 19, 2020)

I participated but I'm realizing we're probably bringing this thread a bit too off topic. We still haven't figured out why discount_machine is routinely cheaper than the shars website, though we've talked about why they have an ebay presence in the first place. I think if we want to continue the chinese vs non-chinese discussion we should make a new thread.


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## darkzero (Sep 19, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> The digital electronic micrometers and inside micrometers are not repeatable, and many gage blocks are out of spec when measured with Starrett micrometers.



So did you return them? Also trying to verify the accuracy of gage blocks with a micrometer is not reliable. Just because it's a Starrett micrometer doesn't mean anything. I'm not sure what your method of testing was but there are many variables that can affect the reading. Starrett makes their share of junk too BTW.


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## erikmannie (Sep 19, 2020)

Masterjuggler said:


> I participated but I'm realizing we're probably bringing this thread a bit too off topic. We still haven't figured out why discount_machine is routinely cheaper than the shars website, though we've talked about why they have an ebay presence in the first place. I think if we want to continue the chinese vs non-chinese discussion we should make a new thread.



Discount Machine on eBay is Shars. It is almost never returned products.

Prices may be listed higher on their website so that it looks like a great deal on eBay. I bought all of my Shars stuff from Discount Machine on eBay.


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## erikmannie (Sep 19, 2020)

darkzero said:


> So did you return them? Also trying to verify the accuracy of gage blocks with a micrometer is not reliable. Just because it's a Starrett micrometer doesn't mean anything. I'm not sure what you method of testing was but there are many variables that can affect the reading. Starrett makes their share of junk too BTW.



I didn’t return anything. I never saved the packaging, and months had passed before I realized the level of quality.

Also, I could not in good conscience sell them to someone else.

Like I said, I use them for roughing & as beaters.


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## darkzero (Sep 19, 2020)

Masterjuggler said:


> I think if we want to continue the chinese vs non-chinese discussion we should make a new thread.



No, no one should. It's a useless debate that will get no where & often doesn't end well. I do agree that this has gone far off topic and for what.


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## erikmannie (Sep 19, 2020)

darkzero said:


> No, no one should. It's a useless debate that will get no where & often doesn't end well. I do agree that this has gone far off topic and for what.



Maybe someone who reads it may choose to buy used quality items. That is the last thing that I will say of this.


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## projectnut (Sep 19, 2020)

As mentioned Discount Machine is the outlet for Shars on eBay.  Be sure to compare prices from both places before making an order.  Often times Shars is less expensive due to shipping costs and sales.   I have purchased a number of items from each location and never had problems with quality.  I have had a couple items come damaged.  All they ask is that you take a picture of the damaged part and email it to them.  They quickly send a replacement.  If they want the old item returned you can use the box the new one came in and attach a return label they provide.  

Our local technical school used to provide Starrett instruments for the students to use when in class.  Unfortunately all to many of them disappeared or were "lost".  To keep within budget constraints they now provide Shars tools.  Not nearly as many tools get "lost" and it's less expensive to replace them.

Most times the items sold on eBay are high volume items they order by the truck or container load.  To sell them quickly they advertise them at both locations.

I you have a problem with any of their tooling give them a call.  They are more than happy to replace anything defective or damaged.  As a side note I've never purchased a measuring instrument from Shars or Discount Machine.  All my metrology tools are Starrett, B&S, or Mitutoyo.  I do have a few sets of HF calipers I use for measurements in the field.  They're close enough to get the general idea of size, but I would never trust them when making a part.


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## NC Rick (Sep 19, 2020)

Shars has treated me well. I buy suff I wouldn't be able to afford otherwise.  An example is that I now have about 20 BXA holders for my real Aloris tool post.  I own about 5 Aloris holders and the rest are Shars.  I wish they were all Aloris but at my level, I don't notice a functional difference.  I would never be able to have 20 with out that option. I also have one of their "D-bit" tool grinders and besides it being gigantic time suck is reasonable quality for I paid.  My test indicators are Interapid, B&S and Mitutoyo but my little used sign bar is Shars.  I wish I could afford the same from Starrett and I buy used stuff when I can.  a present example is that I need an MT 4 bull nose live center and feel confident they will supply me with one which serves my need and be affordable.  I'm open to other suggestions.


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## erikmannie (Sep 19, 2020)

NC Rick said:


> Shars has treated me well. I buy suff I wouldn't be able to afford otherwise.  An example is that I now have about 20 BXA holders for my real Aloris tool post.  I own about 5 Aloris holders and the rest are Shars.  I wish they were all Aloris but at my level, I don't notice a functional difference.  I would never be able to have 20 with out that option. I also have one of their "D-bit" tool grinders and besides it being gigantic time suck is reasonable quality for I paid.  My test indicators are Interapid, B&S and Mitutoyo but my little used sign bar is Shars.  I wish I could afford the same from Starrett and I buy used stuff when I can.  a present example is that I need an MT 4 bull nose live center and feel confident they will supply me with one which serves my need and be affordable.  I'm open to other suggestions.



Check out Z Live Center’s website for a bull nose live center. You can buy just the size (diameter range) that you need:






						Search - Mt4 bull nose live center
					






					zlivecenter.com


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## NCjeeper (Sep 19, 2020)

I have ordered a bunch from Shars and have been happy with the quality. I think their DTI's are the best bang for the buck.


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## NC Rick (Sep 19, 2020)

NCjeeper said:


> I have ordered a bunch from Shars and have been happy with the quality. I think their DTI's are the best bang for the buck.


Please don't mention "bang" and DTI in the same post


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## jlesser27 (Sep 19, 2020)

NC Rick said:


> Please don't mention "bang" and DTI in the same post



I’m sorry but I can’t help it. Is that the same as “bang” and STD?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Batmanacw (Sep 21, 2020)

jlesser27 said:


> I’m sorry but I can’t help it. Is that the same as “bang” and STD?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I purposely look for Shars tools on ebay when I'm buying Chinese. They have been consistently good quality. The mt4 to ER40 collet chuck i bought from them is really accurate. Everything I've bought from them has been very decent.


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## Tim9 (Sep 21, 2020)

I like Shars. Buying From EBay is cheaper than from the website if you’re just buying one item. But if you’re buying a number of items, you do better from the Shars website. Like if buying a lathe chuck, backing plate, and a few other items... I think it’ll be cheaper to buy directly from Shars Website.  I like Shars. Never had a problem yet from their stuff. Can’t say the same about buying things from EBay.

    I must have 3 R8-Er32 collet chucks. The first two crap. Finally got a good one from Amazon. At the time....Shars was out of those.


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## helmbelly (Sep 25, 2020)

I think Shars makes reliable basic stuff. I got their QCTP for my 9" lathe and its been working perfectly for a year. Parallels are accurate, angle blocks, R8 collets all good. Almost everything by any company is made by CNC machines - simple stuff made by them is fine. My work only needs accuracy to a couple thou. Whats the worry? I would not buy indicators - anything thats takes careful assembly I'm buying old and US/European if I can find it/afford it. 123 blocks? Shars- mine measure perfectly. Why spend more? I'm not making parts to tenths.


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## FOMOGO (Sep 25, 2020)

I just got two sets of 123 blocks and a 12" digital caliper from them and all check out well. The thumb wheel on the caliper is a little loosey goosey, but functions just fine. If it really annoys me, I may make a small bushing for it. Mike


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## helmbelly (Sep 26, 2020)

Jebus Mike if you measure Shars blocks with Shars calipers you could fall into a yin yang rabbit hole of successive converging errors! 

;-o


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## helmbelly (Sep 26, 2020)

Mike I got a pair of igaging calipers a year or so ago and love em. ($39) The little plastic battery cover fell off which is right where your thumb pushes on em. Best fix of the year award in my shop was looking down and going "shi#t I love those calipers" then look around shop with the how am I gonna fix THIS look, grabbing scissors cutting a nice piece of latigo leather to fit and putting a drop of glue on the battery. Rubbed in some mink oil and realized it was the best upgrade ever. Now I have a leather steering wheel cover for my calipers and the chicks all smile when I walk by.


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## Masterjuggler (Sep 26, 2020)

helmbelly said:


> Now I have a leather steering wheel cover for my calipers and the chicks all smile when I walk by.


Oh, I believe they smile when you walk by, just not for the reasons you might think


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## helmbelly (Sep 26, 2020)

you mean you think its the mink oil?


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