# Does anyone do aluminum casting and blacksmith work?



## evergreenblue (Mar 15, 2013)

Hello everyone, I'm just getting into the hobby, which has lead me to gain some interest in casting, but also some smithing.  Does anyone do both?  If so, is it possible to build a small foundry that would also work for occasional forging of steel?  How would I go about doing this, just make it wider than the bucket type setups?  Any feedback is appreciated, thanks!

Dave


----------



## Hawkeye (Mar 16, 2013)

For blacksmithing, I use a forge I built from a truck brake drum. The cast iron can handle the heat. Real charcoal gives off a lot of heat, if you don't have a source of coal. Brickettes contain a lot of filler and aren't great for forge work. I used a variety of electric blowers controlled by a foot switch. Don't do much of it these days.

For melting aluminum and heat treating the occasional piece of steel, I built a small foundry out of fire brick framed in angle iron on an old BBQ cart. The propane burner is just something I threw together from iron pipe fittings. Works pretty well. The two crucibles seen beside the foundry are the bottom halves of old fire extinguishers that I got at the scrappers - obviously before first firing. 





Just looking into the heart of the foundry gives you a feel for the heat it can develop.



I have since rounded the corners inside with refractory compound.


----------



## evergreenblue (Mar 16, 2013)

You said you do the occasional heat treating with your forge setup, which is quite nice looking by the way.  Did you just make it large enough to fit your parts down inside of it, knowing how large you would need?  Great idea by the way of using an old fire extinguisher!  You were mentioning using coal instead of charcoal, was that for the forge?  Does the coal burn hotter than the propane setup you have, or not as hot?  Thank you for commenting and sharing too by the way!


----------



## Rbeckett (Mar 16, 2013)

Natural lump charcoal burns very hot, much hotter than briquets.  I cant speak to the difference between charcoul and gas though, never did it.  I also use two big truck front brake drums for a shop heater and it warms my 20X20 shop really well.  I'm sure I could get it hot enough to melt steel or aluminum easilly too.  Again I never did it but I am sure the drums will take the heat no problem.  There is a Gingery book somewhere on forging and heat treating and might be a good idea to peruse when you get some time and can find one.  The Gingery and Shop series books are excelent sources of info for pretty darn cheap.  Good luck and post up some pics of your project as you go.

Bob


----------



## Tamper84 (Mar 16, 2013)

Rbeckett said:


> Natural lump charcoal burns very hot, much hotter than briquets.  I cant speak to the difference between charcoul and gas though, never did it.  I also use two big truck front brake drums for a shop heater and it warms my 20X20 shop really well.  I'm sure I could get it hot enough to melt steel or aluminum easilly too.  Again I never did it but I am sure the drums will take the heat no problem.  There is a Gingery book somewhere on forging and heat treating and might be a good idea to peruse when you get some time and can find one.  The Gingery and Shop series books are excelent sources of info for pretty darn cheap.  Good luck and post up some pics of your project as you go.
> 
> Bob




Hmm this is interesting. Do you mind posting your shop heater? 

Thanks,
Chris


----------



## Hawkeye (Mar 17, 2013)

Coal with a good blower is hotter than propane. It will get the surface of iron up to white hot for forge welding. When the old time blacksmiths couldn't get coal or good charcoal, some of them used green chestnut.

Good forge coal has to be low in sulpher and not produce a lot of clinkers. Impurities like that will prevent a good forge weld. If you're not doing forge welds, your choices in coal more plentiful.

BTW, a forge weld is done by hammering the two pieces to be joined to a scarf joint, then heating them to white heat, with some kind of flux to keep the air away. Borax works well, but some smiths used clean sand. It would melt down to a glass coating across the surface of the metal. When both pieces were ready, they were lined up and struck together with a heavy hammer. The classic shot of sparks flying off the anvil only happens at white heat. Typically a forge weld, unless the smith is playing to the camera.

Incidentally, I did my first lost-foam casting this morning. It's getting late, so I'll post it in a new thread tomorrow.


----------



## strantor (Mar 17, 2013)

I've forged in a brake drum before. Using kingsford briquettes, I got it hot enough to turn a high carbon steel railroad spike into dripping liquid (not intentionally).


----------



## evergreenblue (Mar 18, 2013)

If it gets hot enough to melt the iron in a forge like that, would it be safe to assume you could do some casting with that setup as well?  It seems that all the plans for a foundry have a lid to contain the heat, but if the forge had a blower, then would that suffice?


----------



## SE18 (Mar 18, 2013)

Chris, Bob will not be able to respond for a while. I spoke to him Saturday. I'm sure he'll reply when he's feeling better. (He's not ignoring you)

Dave


----------



## CluelessNewB (Mar 18, 2013)

I haven't done aluminum casting or blacksmith work but I do have a furnace and have done a small bit of bronze and brass casting.  I do plan to do some aluminum this summer.  My furnace is propane powered made from an old water tank and commercial light weight refractory.   

This free online book has lots of great info on metal casting:

http://prometheus.vndv.com/The%20Hobbyist's%20Guide%20to%20Casting%20Metal--2nd%20Edition%20(web).pdf

These web sites have some good info:

Web site of the person who did the book above:
http://prometheus.vndv.com/index.html

Alloy Avenue Forums: 
http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/forum.php

Navy Foundry Manual: (I think you can also find a pdf version of this around the web also)
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/foundry/index.htm


----------



## cg 2005 (Apr 4, 2013)

I got about $35.00 into this oven.  The pot will cook about 50 cubic inches per melt.  I use three different molds and a hole in the ground, but generally cast a 4"x4"x2" ingot.  The largest mold will make an 8"x3"x3" ingot.

The oven is powered by a propane torch.  It take about 15 minutes to melt one pot.


----------



## strantor (Apr 5, 2013)

cg 2005, where do you get your aluminum that you melt down, and what kind is it?


----------



## cg 2005 (Apr 7, 2013)

strantor said:


> cg 2005, where do you get your aluminum that you melt down, and what kind is it?


.     I get all of my Al from a small local metal recycler. He charges me a dollar a pound for anything I buy.  I never get any extruded Al.  Most of what !I get are floor drops from a machine shop.  It could be anything from 6061 to aircraft quality.  I have gotten a few sheets of 1" plate.  Some I use as is, depending on what I am going to make, but most I melt down into my own ingots.


----------

