# Some eBay Sellers Never Cease to Amaze Me



## cjtoombs (Dec 10, 2019)

I see this often when I'm looking at eBay and the naivete and lack of research some sellers do just amazes me.  This fellow has listed shaper work head (which I think is actually a planer side work head) for $500.









						Metal Shaper Clapper Head  | eBay
					

And we did NOT acquire this off the original shaper it was attached too. IM GUESSING maybe it goes on 16" shaper???. But the unit it really, really EXCELLENT CONDITION!



					www.ebay.com
				




I then went to the sold listings for the same "metal shaper" search and there was a 16" G&E shaper with vise and toolholder that sold for 450.  I bought that same shaper in worse condition for 385.  The optimism never ceases to amaze me.  I doubt anyone would even pay for the shipping if they were giving the thing away.  It's not hard to do a search on sold listings and come up with some idea what your item is worth.  If an entire working well equipped shaper is going for 450 that might inform you that your small portion of it maybe isn't worth that much?  Dunno.  Enough rant for now.


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## toploader (Dec 10, 2019)

I feel your pain. I need a facing head for my 4” HBM.  They sell for more individually, then a complete mill that includes one.


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## benmychree (Dec 10, 2019)

That is a very unusual piece, having the lateral adjustment likely for cutting short tapers at various angles, I very much doubt that it came off a shaper or even a planer, the mounting is quite unusual


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## cjtoombs (Dec 10, 2019)

benmychree said:


> That is a very unusual piece, having the lateral adjustment likely for cutting short tapers at various angles, I very much doubt that it came off a shaper or even a planer, the mounting is quite unusual



Don't know what else uses a clapper and toolholder like that.  That's why I thought it might be one of the side heads on a planer, not the main cutting head that goes on the crossrail.  Might also be something like an add on head for a planer that didn't originally come with side heads.  For all I know someone who knows what it is may be out there looking at it thinking "I've been looking for one of those for 10 years, what a bargain".  I doubt it, though.


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## benmychree (Dec 10, 2019)

cjtoombs said:


> Don't know what else uses a clapper and toolholder like that.  That's why I thought it might be one of the side heads on a planer, not the main cutting head that goes on the crossrail.  Might also be something like an add on head for a planer that didn't originally come with side heads.  For all I know someone who knows what it is may be out there looking at it thinking "I've been looking for one of those for 10 years, what a bargain".  I doubt it, though.


God only knows, and he ain't saying ---


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## projectnut (Dec 11, 2019)

cjtoombs said:


> I see this often when I'm looking at eBay and the naivete and lack of research some sellers do just amazes me.  This fellow has listed shaper work head (which I think is actually a planer side work head) for $500.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's true that there was 1 example of a shaper selling for $450.00.  However there were several smaller sizes selling for between $750.00 and $1,000.00, and several more that had undisclosed prices with initial asking prices close to $2,000.00.  For some reason the price of shapers has skyrocketed in the last 5 years.  I purchased an AMMCO 7" model a few years ago for less than $200.00.  It was part of an auction lot that didn't sell.  Near the end of the auction the shaper and a few other tools were bundled together with another lot.  That lot included an indexer a friend was interested in.  His winning bid for the entire lot was $175.00  He knew I was interested in a shaper, so he sold it to me for what he paid for it.  

Today the asking prices for the same shapers are generally in the $1,000.00 range.  I have seen some with asking prices close to $1,500.00.  They may not get the full asking price, but I'm betting they don't settle for $450.00 either.  There are currently a few listings in our area Craigslist with asking prices in the $1,000.00 range.


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## cjtoombs (Dec 11, 2019)

projectnut said:


> It's true that there was 1 example of a shaper selling for $450.00.  However there were several smaller sizes selling for between $750.00 and $1,000.00, and several more that had undisclosed prices with initial asking prices close to $2,000.00.  For some reason the price of shapers has skyrocketed in the last 5 years.  I purchased an AMMCO 7" model a few years ago for less than $200.00.  It was part of an auction lot that didn't sell.  Near the end of the auction the shaper and a few other tools were bundled together with another lot.  That lot included an indexer a friend was interested in.  His winning bid for the entire lot was $175.00  He knew I was interested in a shaper, so he sold it to me for what he paid for it.
> 
> Today the asking prices for the same shapers are generally in the $1,000.00 range.  I have seen some with asking prices close to $1,500.00.  They may not get the full asking price, but I'm betting they don't settle for $450.00 either.  There are currently a few listings in our area Craigslist with asking prices in the $1,000.00 range.



You are right that the price of small shapers seems to have gone up, but that doesn't seem to hold for larger shapers.  The only one listed that was a large shaper that sold was the $450 16" G&E.  Most hobbyists are not interested in shapers over about 12" size, which means there is very little market for large shapers.  Also, lack of a vise significantly effects shaper value as well, for a large shaper the vise can constitute half or more of the value.  I stand by my assessment that this work head is essentially worthless and the seller could have determined that by looking at the eBay sold listings.  There are some larger shapers on eBay that are listed for thousands, but I know for a fact that some of those have been on there for years at that price.  The planets have to align for a large shaper to bring any kind of money.  I did pay $1400 for a 24" Cincinnati universal shaper, but I really wanted one and the machine was in near pristine condition with lots of tooling.  I also waited for the price to come down from over 2000 before I bought it.  Probably could have gotten it for less but didn't want to loose it.  Again, that was an exception, not the rule.


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## Latinrascalrg1 (Dec 11, 2019)

projectnut said:


> I purchased an AMMCO 7" model a few years ago for less than $200.00.....
> That lot included an indexer a friend was interested in.  His winning bid for the entire lot was $175.00  He knew I was interested in a shaper, so he sold it to me for what he paid for it.


Wow what a Friend!


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## benmychree (Dec 11, 2019)

I think we have to realize that there are shapers and there are shapers --- the Aamco, South Bend,Atlas and other toy size shapers certainly seem popular these days, they look great in a small workshop, but are not really very capable, so far as removing much metal is concerned; I do know that those prices are seen commonly, on the other hand, industrial rated shapers are not worth much, the bigger they are, the less they are worth, except for scrap value; my G&E 20-24 industrial universal (1957) is a great machine, but is it worth much of anything? the answer is NO.  Having said that, I bought mine probably the better part of 15 - 20 years ago for $1100, but that is another story, and typing is slow for me.


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## benmychree (Dec 11, 2019)

I was told years ago that there are 3 prices in most any used machinery sale;
the wishing price
the asking price
the selling price

$1000 or more for an industrial shaper is a wishing price, unless the buyer is not a sophisticated buyer ----


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## NCjeeper (Dec 11, 2019)

Also depends on your area. We are in a pretty dry area for shapers. I over paid for my 16" G&E Industrial Universal last year but it was exactly what I had been looking for and they never come up for sale around here. It did come with all the handles and a #4 tool holder in the tool post so that was a plus.


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## projectnut (Dec 11, 2019)

benmychree said:


> I think we have to realize that there are shapers and there are shapers ---* the Aamco, South Bend,Atlas and other toy size shapers certainly seem popular these days, they look great in a small workshop, but are not really very capable, *so far as removing much metal is concerned*;* I do know that those prices are seen commonly, on the other hand, industrial rated shapers are not worth much, the bigger they are, the less they are worth, except for scrap value; my G&E 20-24 industrial universal (1957) is a great machine, but is it worth much of anything? the answer is NO.  Having said that, I bought mine probably the better part of 15 - 20 years ago for $1100, but that is another story, and typing is slow for me.


I think it all depends on their intended use.  We had a couple shapers at work when I first started, a 16" and a 24".  They didn't get used much, and took up a lot of floor space.  They were eventually replaced by a couple Tree Journeyman CNC milling machines.  The milling machines were used all day every day, so in the scheme of things they were far more productive than the shapers.

The one in my shop came from The Badger Ordinance Works in Baraboo Wisconsin.  It spent nearly 60 years in their machine shop.  The head of our electronics department came from the Ordinance Works when the government announced the plant would be put on "standby" after the Vietnam War.  He was surprised the shaper was still in good shape since it had been used on a daily basis for the 12+ years he worked at the facility.  In this case the machine spent the bulk of it's life making new, and repairing existing tooling for the plant.  A larger machine in all likelihood would have been overkill, and taken up much more floor space than necessary to complete the same jobs.




cjtoombs said:


> You are right that the price of small shapers seems to have gone up, but that doesn't seem to hold for larger shapers.  The only one listed that was a large shaper that sold was the $450 16" G&E.  Most hobbyists are not interested in shapers over about 12" size, which means there is very little market for large shapers.  Also, lack of a vise significantly effects shaper value as well, f*or a large shaper the vise can constitute half or more of the value.*  I stand by my assessment that this work head is essentially worthless and the seller could have determined that by looking at the eBay sold listings.  There are some larger shapers on eBay that are listed for thousands, but I know for a fact that some of those have been on there for years at that price.  The planets have to align for a large shaper to bring any kind of money.  I did pay $1400 for a 24" Cincinnati universal shaper, but I really wanted one and the machine was in near pristine condition with lots of tooling.  I also waited for the price to come down from over 2000 before I bought it.  Probably could have gotten it for less but didn't want to loose it.  Again, that was an exception, not the rule.


It's funny you mentioned that.  When I was searching Craigslist I found a 10" shaper vise that looked rusty, but in good shape for $50.00.  Here's a link to the add.









						Large Machine Vice
					

Off large Shaper.



					wausau.craigslist.org
				




This is the shaper I got from the Badger Ordinance Works.  It comes complete with the OD paint job, War Board plaque, and Badger Ordinance Works (BOW) property tag.


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