# Way off topic... memory loss - Prevagen  anyone tried it



## woodchucker (Dec 22, 2021)

Since I have been out of work, and my age contributes, I notice a decrease in memory. Substantial. I blame it to a muscle not being used the way it used to.

Anyone here tried Prevagen? Do you feel like it helps?


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## Janderso (Dec 22, 2021)

Sorry to hear my friend.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 22, 2021)

I'm with ya Jeff , CRS started setting in years ago . The wife says I'm hearing impaired also , at least sometimes .  And as far as this .............................


woodchucker said:


> I blame it to a muscle not being used the way it used to.


I used to get that liquid Viagra , not any more . I can't even pour myself a stiff one .


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## aliva (Dec 22, 2021)

I have no personal experience with this product. I'm very cautious  of a lot of these so called miracle products.
Memory degradation is apart of aging. and genetics .Keeping your mind active will certainly slow the progression down.
A friend of mine is 94 years and is as sharp as a tack, he's a retired doctor. He doesn't practice any more but he keeps up with latest info in his field. and still has hospital privileges. On the other hand my sister who is 73 has full blown Alzheimer's. I would also go see a doctor and get assessed.
​Check this review before you buy




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						Consumer Review  | Prevagen Review - Does It Work?
					

Consumer Review conducted an in-depth review of the top brain boosting nootropics. Take a closer look at Prevagen.




					consumereview.org


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## Technical Ted (Dec 22, 2021)

How bout just working that muscle!   

If you don't use CAD, download a free copy of Fusion 360 and start learning! Or, get a part time job.... Or maybe volunteer work?!? How bout reading, or even learning one of these new computer graphic games that are out???

There a plenty of ways of keeping the brain working on all cylinders as well as exercises to work the heart.

Just throwing it out there!
Ted


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## woodchucker (Dec 22, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> I'm with ya Jeff , CRS started setting in years ago . The wife says I'm hearing impaired also , at least sometimes .  And as far as this .............................
> 
> I used to get that liquid Viagra , not any more . I can't even pour myself a stiff one .


What is CRS?
I'm not going to touch the rest of that...


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## aliva (Dec 22, 2021)

*C*an't *R*emember *S*hit.
Not to be confused with *"CRFT"*


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## woodchucker (Dec 22, 2021)

aliva said:


> *C*an't *R*emember *S*hit.
> Not to be confused with *"CRFT"*


oh, I didn't REMEMBER that   
what's CRFT  ???  oh brother.


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## C-Bag (Dec 22, 2021)

woodchucker said:


> Since I have been out of work, and my age contributes, I notice a decrease in memory. Substantial. I blame it to a muscle not being used the way it used to.
> 
> Anyone here tried Prevagen? Do you feel like it helps?


I‘d stay away from it. Waste of $$





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I’ve been using nootropics for over a decade and they all work differently. All the good ones like Ginko, Bacopa, and Lions Mane are all used in these medicalized concoctions and just like everything else knockoffs are always inferior. Why not just buy the best of each from a good herbalist company and cycle them along with quality vitamins? In the long run they are usually cheaper and more potent. If you like the shotgun effect :


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All the line of Stamets stuff is outstanding IMHO. Their Lions Mane works really good for me as does their My Community. Most whole Ginko works great for me too. Bacopa, not so much. Everybody is different.


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## mikey (Dec 22, 2021)

There are no effective treatments for Alzheimer's or MCI (Mild Cognitive Impairment) yet. Prevagen, derived from a protein found in glow-in-the-dark jellyfish, has not been clinically proven to do anything.  

There is a new drug currently in clinical trials (Pegasus trials) that might hold some promise, especially for those with MCI. Called "AMX0035" from Amylyx Pharmaceuticals, it appears to reduce the biomarkers that have recently been found to be a potential cause for AD. While not ready for prime time yet, this new drug has the potential to be the first real drug aimed at AD and MCI. 

Hold on ...


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## C-Bag (Dec 22, 2021)

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						Research Breakdown on Lion's Mane - Examine
					






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## MrWhoopee (Dec 22, 2021)

My initials are CRS, it's been my go to defense for decades.


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## westerner (Dec 22, 2021)

MrWhoopee said:


> it's been my go to defense for decades


Mild thread drift, but still related, I hope-

When I went to an eye doctor for the first time in my life, in my mid 50's, he said "you are left eye dominant"

Since I shoot a shotgun right handed, I got the chance to claim this affliction as a doctor's excuse for every quail I EVER missed.....
My huntin' buddies are a bit skeptical.


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## 682bear (Dec 22, 2021)

westerner said:


> Mild thread drift, but still related, I hope-
> 
> When I went to an eye doctor for the first time in my life, in my mid 50's, he said "you are left eye dominant"
> 
> ...



Yep... BTDT... I started shooting with my left eye closed... I don't hunt, but shot Sporting Clays competitively for 17 years, punched into Master Class July 4th weekend 2012...

I read a few weeks ago that people who use Viagra have a lower chance of developing Altzheimers... so at least they will be able to remember what to do with that thing...







Sorry... couldn't resist...

-Bear


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## Nutfarmer (Dec 23, 2021)

Mmcmdl  my ex always said I had selective hearing loss. I couldn't spell even when I was in grammar school. Remember something good luck. Woodchuck you are in good company.


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## Eddyde (Dec 23, 2021)

I bought a bottle but keep forgetting to take them...


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## tomfiii (Dec 23, 2021)

Try some Curcumin and is your vit.D level where it should be at least 50 according to latest research.


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## aliva (Dec 23, 2021)

aliva said:


> *C*an't *R*emember *S*hit.
> Not to be confused with *"CRFT"*


*C*ant *R*emember a *F****K*ing *T*hing


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## aliva (Dec 23, 2021)

woodchucker said:


> oh, I didn't REMEMBER that
> what's CRFT  ???  oh brother.


*C*ant *R*emember a *F****K*ing  *T*hing


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## Janderso (Dec 23, 2021)

woodchucker said:


> oh, I didn't REMEMBER that
> what's CRFT  ???  oh brother.


My mom said one time, I got CRX. I said, CRX? What's that? You know, can't remember sh*%t. She says, see what I mean!!


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## Janderso (Dec 23, 2021)

My brother in law was diagnosed yesterday with minor cognitive loss.
He has sleep apnea. His doc said it could be from that or the seizures.
He started having those a few months ago. No idea why.
He's 72.
Smokes pot like a freight train. That couldn't be good.


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## dirty tools (Dec 23, 2021)

I use donepezil 10 mg


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## woodchucker (Apr 9, 2022)

So I went to the Dr, went for a sleep study. I have sleep apnea. I stop breathing on average 66 times per hour, had a high of 74 times in one hour during the night.  A cpap machine will take until June or July to be available.  This is the reason for my memory loss they tell me.  Also why I am so tired all the time.  I nod out if I sit in the couch... I wake up and am still exhausted.   But at this point they don't think it's anything degenerative. So can't wait to get a cpap and find out.  I hope I can sleep with it.  All of my sports /motorcycle injuries over the years have added up. I can't lay on my sides. I prefer to start sleeping on my chest to ease the pain, then wind up on my back usually. I hope the cpap will work with that type of sleep..


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## RJSakowski (Apr 9, 2022)

Nova on PBS last week was devoted to memory loss and Alzheimer's.  It might be worth a view.  https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/

I would be wary of home or herbal remedies.  Most are based on anecdotal references and most of those that claim to have done clinical studies are not true double blind studies.  It has been generally accepted that amyloid buildup in the brain is responsible for memory loss leading to dementia and ultimately Alzheimer's.

My Mom had dementia for the last five years of her life.  It was never formally diagnosed as Alzheimer's but I suspect that it was.  It got to the point where she didn't recognize my Dad.  I have had short term memory problems for years.  Name and facial recognition are a problem for me.  I start my mornings out by doing a couple of puzzles (Soduko and number puzzles) and contributing actively to this forum helps, I hope.   If I am following in my Mom's footsteps,  I should have another 12 -15 years of active mental acuity.  By that time, something else probably will have caught up with me anyway.


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## MrWhoopee (Apr 9, 2022)

RJSakowski said:


> By that time, something else probably will have caught up with me anyway.


Optimism can have a strange face this late in life.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 13, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> So I went to the Dr, went for a sleep study. I have sleep apnea. I stop breathing on average 66 times per hour, had a high of 74 times in one hour during the night.  A cpap machine will take until June or July to be available.  This is the reason for my memory loss they tell me.  Also why I am so tired all the time.  I nod out if I sit in the couch... I wake up and am still exhausted.   But at this point they don't think it's anything degenerative. So can't wait to get a cpap and find out.  I hope I can sleep with it.  All of my sports /motorcycle injuries over the years have added up. I can't lay on my sides. I prefer to start sleeping on my chest to ease the pain, then wind up on my back usually. I hope the cpap will work with that type of sleep..


Really happy you found this.  With the appropriate machine, the use of a xPAP machine should greatly improve your life.  As a warning, it may be hard to get used to the alien thing on your face.  But at least for me now, I'd rather use mine than not.  When I use it my quality of life is literally 100 times better than without.  I had undiagnosed sleep apnea for decades.  I had cluster headaches, that were like migraines that didn't respond to any treatment.  After CPAP treatment, all the headaches vanished.  The headaches were due to lack of quality sleep.  I don't get these headaches anymore and I like that.

Also, don't assume the mask they give you is the right one.  Mask fitting takes a while to find a brand and style that works for you.  Don't be afraid to try a lot of them.  If you get a lousy night sleep, it might be the mask, not the machine.  Some masks have lower or higher CO2 exchange or dilution and it may affect your sleep quality.


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## rabler (Apr 13, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> So I went to the Dr, went for a sleep study. I have sleep apnea. I stop breathing on average 66 times per hour, had a high of 74 times in one hour during the night.  A cpap machine will take until June or July to be available.  This is the reason for my memory loss they tell me.  Also why I am so tired all the time.  I nod out if I sit in the couch... I wake up and am still exhausted.   But at this point they don't think it's anything degenerative. So can't wait to get a cpap and find out.  I hope I can sleep with it.  All of my sports /motorcycle injuries over the years have added up. I can't lay on my sides. I prefer to start sleeping on my chest to ease the pain, then wind up on my back usually. I hope the cpap will work with that type of sleep..


Just saw this.  Glad you have good prospects for relief!


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## eugene13 (Apr 13, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> So I went to the Dr, went for a sleep study. I have sleep apnea. I stop breathing on average 66 times per hour, had a high of 74 times in one hour during the night.  A cpap machine will take until June or July to be available.  This is the reason for my memory loss they tell me.  Also why I am so tired all the time.  I nod out if I sit in the couch... I wake up and am still exhausted.   But at this point they don't think it's anything degenerative. So can't wait to get a cpap and find out.  I hope I can sleep with it.  All of my sports /motorcycle injuries over the years have added up. I can't lay on my sides. I prefer to start sleeping on my chest to ease the pain, then wind up on my back usually. I hope the cpap will work with that type of sleep..


Getting a CPAP cured my acid reflux, give it a chance.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 13, 2022)

eugene13 said:


> Getting a CPAP cured my acid reflux, give it a chance.


Me too.  Used to take pills for it.  Don't have acid reflux anymore when using the CPAP.


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## woodchucker (Apr 13, 2022)

really, good to know, I occasionally have Acid Reflux, more , and more..


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## TheGarry (Apr 13, 2022)

CPAP is the best thing for me. I stopped snoring and it saved my life or stopped my wife from wanting to kill me.


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## woodchucker (Apr 13, 2022)

My wife is just as bad as I am.. but you can't tell her that. She doesn't believe me.  My son tells her, she says get outta here I do not.
My I don't snore, I run a buzz saw at high speed... Along with a chain saw...


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## WobblyHand (Apr 13, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> My wife is just as bad as I am.. but you can't tell her that. She doesn't believe me.  My son tells her, she says get outta here I do not.
> My I don't snore, I run a buzz saw at high speed... Along with a chain saw...


At the risk of marital disharmony, you could record the sound.  If she snores, it could very likely be apnea.  If it is apnea, it should be treated.  Lots of people who snore refuse to believe it.  It takes a recording or more embarrassingly, a video of snoring played back a full volume to get them to believe it.  But do this at your own risk...


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## woodchucker (Apr 13, 2022)

Oh I've done that. It's her way of not taking responsibility for anything.


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## SLK001 (Apr 14, 2022)

Wait...  What were we talking about?


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## WobblyHand (Apr 14, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> Oh I've done that. It's her way of not taking responsibility for anything.


It's her health.  Oh well, spouse's can have strong wills.  Too bad really, since she would probably feel better.


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## rabler (Apr 14, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Oh well, spouse's can have strong wills.


My wife gashed her leg pretty badly one day while helping in the shop.   I looked at it and told her she needed to go the ER and have it stitched.  She asked if I could do it (I've stitched up horses several times, and my vet's hand once).  I ended up using surgical staples after cleaning and flushing it with saline, rather than stitching, but, no lidocaine ...    Yep, strong willed.  And a strong dislike of doctors/hospitals.


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## woodchucker (Apr 14, 2022)

rabler said:


> My wife gashed her leg pretty badly one day while helping in the shop.   I looked at it and told her she needed to go the ER and have it stitched.  She asked if I could do it (I've stitched up horses several times, and my vet's hand once).  I ended up using surgical staples after cleaning and flushing it with saline, rather than stitching, but, no lidocaine ...    Yep, strong willed.  And a strong dislike of doctors/hospitals.


I like your wife and I haven't even met her.
I was 20 something and had to stitch my own leg up.. needle and thread, alcohol, a flame, and iodine..
it hurt like hell, it looked like hell, but it worked.. no infection.  It hurt more than an injection..

Your wife is tough stuff.


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## starr256 (Apr 15, 2022)

Which will be the final nail in the coffin of my machining days? **** poor eye sight, short term loss, arthritic hands, loss of tactile capabilities, knees that won't take standing at the lathe, too many stupid mistakes, or my love telling me it's time? So many ways and no way to stop them (not counting on robotics or other biomechanism). What is my answer to this whining drivel? Back to shop, thank you.


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## rabler (Apr 15, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> I was 20 something and had to stitch my own leg up.. needle and thread, alcohol, a flame, and iodine..
> it hurt like hell, it looked like hell, but it worked.. no infection. It hurt more than an injection..


Credit to you, It takes a lot of willpower to calmly and accurately push a needle through your own skin.


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## woodchucker (Apr 15, 2022)

rabler said:


> Credit to you, It takes a lot of willpower to calmly and accurately push a needle through your own skin.


I was bleeding all over the place, and didn't want to trash my car. I had done something stupid... was not paying attention for one second and was using a scalpel to cut something... just one second of not looking was all it took.. I looked down and thought it looked like little turds, turns out those were my vains then woosh came the blood.. and lots of it considering veins... It was on top of my leg and I had no way to slow it down. I tried ice , but it was still coming fast. So I stitched it.


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## MikeInOr (Apr 17, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> Since I have been out of work, and my age contributes, I notice a decrease in memory. Substantial. I blame it to a muscle not being used the way it used to.
> 
> Anyone here tried Prevagen? Do you feel like it helps?



Personally I would research Prevagen and then give it a try.  I have taken nootropic drugs in the past, Provigil, under a physicians recommendation and it is definitely effective.  I have a fear of loosing my memory because it is what makes me...me, not due to any family history.  From the minimal reading I have done the sooner treatment starts the more effective it will be.  BUT do your research and then be open to its possibilities.  As mentioned above my understanding is memory loss has been associated to plaque build up on the brain.  My understanding is the sooner you start treatment the less memory robbing plaque will accumulate.

CPAP's are great, I have been using one for almost 20 years.  Even though it contributes greatly to quality of life it isn't something I would consider an alternative to specific treatment for memory loss.  I remember very vibrant deams of being ~30' under water and drowning through out my life, even as a teenager.  I have not had that dream since I started using a CPAP about 20 years ago.

My CPAP never helped my acid reflux but straight psyllium fiber (Metamucil without all the sugar) eliminated my recurring acid reflux as well as reduced my cholesterol.  This is about as far as I have ever ventured into naturalpathic medications.

Your account picture shows a German Shepherd.  Do you still have them?  I have been seriously considering adopting a German shepherd for my health.  I have had 2 dogs in the last 30 years, both German shepherds.  There was never any possibility of skipping a morning and evening walk with a German shepherd... and they are the most loving animal I have ever met.

Even though the members on this board are some of the best I have found on the internet and are great to bounce machining and completely off topic ideas off of... this is not real research and not where you should be turning to for medical advice! (No disrespect to any of the members intended!)


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## woodchucker (Apr 17, 2022)

My avatar is a Border Collie / Sheppard mix. he passed ... He was my best dog. Smart as a whip, a real athlete, ready to play , frisbees 6' out of the air, he could run and catch a ball in the air, or one bounce... just amazing speed.
My current dog is a full German Sheppard from Germany, we got him rescue when the kids became allergic. He's not your brightest, but he is a big baby, a loving dog, a beautiful dog... He's super friendly and great to take everywhere. I didn't think he was protective until my wife was in the back yard, and a delivery guy came to the back.. Rex positioned himself between him and her, and sat.. He was not aggressive, but he assumed the position. I think he sensed my wifes nerves..

He is great with kids, other animals, and he is trustworthy. He has never counter surfed.

I am not going to do anything until I try the CPAP...  We'll see how things progress from there.
Chase   Border Collie / Sheppard



Rex Pure German Sheppard


Rex loves cold days... This was a bitter cold day we went for a walk down the road, opposite the way we normally go.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 22, 2022)

@woodchucker, you get your PAP machine yet?  If not, hoping you get it soon, they really do help.


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## woodchucker (Apr 22, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> @woodchucker, you get your PAP machine yet?  If not, hoping you get it soon, they really do help.


they tell me there is a backlog.
late May to late June is the hope.  must be made in China.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 22, 2022)

Philips Respironics or Resmed machine?  Think the Resmed works better for me.  

I have no love for Philips as that was the machine that was recalled.  And it was only recalled because the FDA forced them to.  I never really got a good night's sleep with the Philips, but the numbers looked ok.  Once I dumped that machine 2 years ago and bought a Resmed, I've felt a lot better.  

Beware, Philips often offers enticing deals to doctors and sleep centers.  Part of the deal is exclusion of all other brands.  If your sleep doctor doesn't even mention ResMed as a possibility, they may have been "paid off" by entering the exclusive deal.  It's great for the doctors, but bad for patients.


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## woodchucker (Apr 22, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Philips Respironics or Resmed machine?  Think the Resmed works better for me.
> 
> I have no love for Philips as that was the machine that was recalled.  And it was only recalled because the FDA forced them to.  I never really got a good night's sleep with the Philips, but the numbers looked ok.  Once I dumped that machine 2 years ago and bought a Resmed, I've felt a lot better.
> 
> Beware, Philips often offers enticing deals to doctors and sleep centers.  Part of the deal is exclusion of all other brands.  If your sleep doctor doesn't even mention ResMed as a possibility, they may have been "paid off" by entering the exclusive deal.  It's great for the doctors, but bad for patients.


I don't know. It's going to be covered by insurance I hope. I guess I should ask.  Thanks for the heads up.


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## MikeInOr (Apr 22, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> My avatar is a Border Collie / Sheppard mix. he passed ... He was my best dog. Smart as a whip, a real athlete, ready to play , frisbees 6' out of the air, he could run and catch a ball in the air, or one bounce... just amazing speed.
> My current dog is a full German Sheppard from Germany, we got him rescue when the kids became allergic. He's not your brightest, but he is a big baby, a loving dog, a beautiful dog... He's super friendly and great to take everywhere. I didn't think he was protective until my wife was in the back yard, and a delivery guy came to the back.. Rex positioned himself between him and her, and sat.. He was not aggressive, but he assumed the position. I think he sensed my wifes nerves..
> 
> He is great with kids, other animals, and he is trustworthy. He has never counter surfed.
> ...





My daughter and girl friend found this sweety in a drainage ditch behind our property.  She was so weak that she couldn't move or even stand up.  After some bowls of water and a bit of meat we were able to get her moving.  She bounced back quite quickly and had a lot of her strength back after a couple days of care. She stayed with us for about a weak before the owners saw one of our adds.  She has been reunited with them.

I have had 2 dogs in the past 30 years, both German shepherds.  "Scarlet" has us thinking that it might be time for another dog.  I don't have the energy to go through the whole puppy training and socialization thing again so we are looking for an older dog who already has some manners.  Hopefully full or part German shepherd.  I know from my past German Shepherds that they don't have much patients for "I don't feel like going for a walk today" which I know will be quite good for me.


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## MikeInOr (Apr 22, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> I don't know. It's going to be covered by insurance I hope. I guess I should ask.  Thanks for the heads up.



I REALLY  prefer the Respironics CPAP's.  I have had several brands over the past couple decades and can't really tell a lot of difference between them as far as using them.  The Respironic CPAPs run on 12v and can be powered by a car battery when camping with a simple cable.  The Philips run on higher than 12 volts and require a special (EXPENSIVE) power adapter to run on 12v or an inverter to give the original power brick 120vac.

I gave up on my sleep doctor and the local medical supplier for my CPAP and supplies.  I use the prescription to order all of my CPAP stuff online.  With a little shopping around I pay less for a new CPAP than my deductible is through my insurance.  *For your first CPAP I would recommend going through the local Dr. or Med supply.*  After that you might want to consider looking around a bit.  I scanned my prescription and keep it in my Google drive for easy access and sending it to the online suppliers.  When the insurance pays for your CPAP you have to constantly send "compliance" information from the CPAP to them.  When you buy it yourself you don't have to go through all that hassle.

I haven't seen my sleep Dr. in 15 years.  After the sleep study and prescription they really don't do a heck of a lot.  My family Dr. has cut my a couple CPAP prescriptions over the years so I have a somewhat current one.  Setting the pressures myself is pretty easy and I can actually judge if I need more pressure better than a doctor can.  Most recent CPAPs are self setting so you don't have to even worry about that any more.

Everyone that I have ever talked to who has had a sleep study gets some scary results that they are about to die if they don't get a CPAP.  The reality is a little less dramatic.  I still HIGHLY RECCOMEND CPAPs!  They definitely make a big difference in sleep.

I prefer the nasal pillow masks but they will probably start you with a nose mask.  The nasal mask are a lot less intrusive for me.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 22, 2022)

To the best of my knowledge, Philips bought Respironics.  The 3rd recall notice I received, just today, is for my ex- _Philips Respironics_ machine.  Different people like different machines, as @MikeInOr has noted.  The Respironics machines are 12VDC input.  The ResMed are 24VDC input.  You can get an inverter, if it matters to you, or you are running off battery.  The two major companies use different algorithms to treat apnea.  For me, the ResMed works better.  I had Respironic machines for 10 years and switched two years ago to a ResMed machine.

The sleep industry is kind of a racket, if you ask me.  Shop around.  Often it is cheaper to shop online, than going through insurance and their marked up DME's.  (Durable Medical Equipment suppliers.)  When I contacted my insurance company and said I could buy brand name supplies cheaper through Amazon, they said tough.  They said they would only pay if the products were purchased through their _approved_ DME's.  (At higher than retail prices.)  Quite disappointing.

It's ok to get your first machine through your doctor, or medical supply, but it often is quite a bit more expensive that way.  Be warned that insurance companies do not care that you feel better, all they care about is that you are using the machine (compliance) and that your apnea score (AHI apnea hypopnea index) is 5.0 or less.  That's 5 apneas per Hour average for the whole night.  (40 apnea events in 8 hours)  If you achieve an apnea at or below 5.0 they consider you treated, no matter how badly you may feel.  Personally, I would be incapacitated at AHI=5.  Others can function at that score.  Me, I need to be 1.0 and under to have a decent day.

Whatever you do, don't fall for the CPAP sanitizers hard sell.  That really is a scam.  All ozone based sanitizers destroy your equipment, because ozone is very injurious to many materials, including your lungs.  These sanitizers are not needed, and are for all intents and purposes snake oil.  The FDA has written that ozone should not be used on CPAP equipment as it causes the materials to degrade, including the foam in the recalled Respironic units.

Although you can see I have a dim view of many doctors, DME's and insurance companies, I do strongly believe that PAP therapy can be very helpful.  At this point, I would never consider not using it.  Why?  Because using the machine has made my life immeasurably better now.  Before PAP there were elephants dancing on my temples with cymbals, just crushing my spirit.  Now, the elephants are far away and I can smile again.  Definitely improved the quality of my life.  It's not all peaches and cream, there are ups and downs, but I feel so much better than I did before treatment.


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## woodchucker (Apr 22, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> To the best of my knowledge, Philips bought Respironics.  The 3rd recall notice I received, just today, is for my ex- _Philips Respironics_ machine.  Different people like different machines, as @MikeInOr has noted.  The Respironics machines are 12VDC input.  The ResMed are 24VDC input.  You can get an inverter, if it matters to you, or you are running off battery.  The two major companies use different algorithms to treat apnea.  For me, the ResMed works better.  I had Respironic machines for 10 years and switched two years ago to a ResMed machine.
> 
> The sleep industry is kind of a racket, if you ask me.  Shop around.  Often it is cheaper to shop online, than going through insurance and their marked up DME's.  (Durable Medical Equipment suppliers.)  When I contacted my insurance company and said I could buy brand name supplies cheaper through Amazon, they said tough.  They said they would only pay if the products were purchased through their _approved_ DME's.  (At higher than retail prices.)  Quite disappointing.
> 
> ...


really 5 , I am at 74 high and 66 avg / hr. I am way off.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 22, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> really 5 , I am at 74 high and 66 avg / hr. I am way off.


From where you are at right now, getting to five would be great.  Sleep studies are great for showing how bad you were for that one night.  They say nothing about other nights.  Maybe you were worse, or better, there's no way of knowing.

I had numbers about 1/2 that untreated.  And they were really crippling me.  Especially since I had a lot of events which were not technically apneas, but were disrupting my sleep.  Think I had less than 20% of the normal amount of restorative deep sleep.  These microarousals weren't apnea, but they were robbing me of restorative sleep.  Maybe 5 will be great for you, or 3.  The score doesn't matter to you, only the insurance company.  What matters to you is _how you feel_.  If you feel a lot better, then the therapy is working for you.  If not, then no matter what your score is, you need to continue working at it.

Good luck with this.  It's kind of a journey.  Recognizing that you have apnea is one step.  Getting the machine is another step.  Getting to the point where you have effective therapy might take a bit.  I had a rough time of it initially.  Had to remind myself (multiple times) that I was not a quitter.  It took longer than expected, but it's so much better now.  

Oh, this is really important.  Embarrassed not to have mentioned this earlier.  Make sure your machine that you get is capable of detailed data logging.  My first machine that I owned was a brick.  It told me my apnea score of the night, and nothing else.  This is not what you want!  You want to be able to capture your breathing data at a high rate.  There are open source programs which can read this data and can allow you and others to figure out a better therapy.  I am not talking about the worthless programs that are offered by the manufacturers.  Those are dumbed down programs of little value.

If you can, please post the make and full model of the machine "they" intend to sell you.  Find this out in advance.  I can find out if this machine is supported by this open source program.  All I know is that with the use of that program, (and a bit of help!) I was able to titrate and fine tune my treatment.  I never got that from my doctors.  They, like the insurance company didn't care how I felt.


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## woodchucker (Apr 22, 2022)

From what I have been told, the machine will report to them daily my stats from the night. It's going to use my router and send it.


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## MikeInOr (Apr 22, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> From what I have been told, the machine will report to them daily my stats from the night. It's going to use my router and send it.



I stopped buying machines through insurance long before they started making machines smart enough to send usage data automatically.  When I got my first cpap I had to take it to the med supply company once a month to have compliance data downloaded.  I always wondered if they ever actually sent that data to the insurance company?

There is software for downloading your sleep data from the cpap so you can look at it and monitor what is going on.  After you get used to the cpap (it does take a while) I believe the best person to manage your treatment is you.  I.e. not much use in going to the sleep Dr. if everything is going well.  If you have problem THAT is the time to make an appointment.  Anyway, my recommendation is to play the game at first.  When you get comfortable with the whole process you can decides what works best re appointments and such yourself.

I very much agree with WobblyHand as far as the whole process feeling like a bit of a scam.  BUT I also agree with him about how useful and beneficial CPAP's are.  I believe if it were really all about the patients health I would be able to purchase a CPAP at Walmart for $100... a lot more patients would be have access to some very beneficial treatment this way.

Self monitoring software: https://www.cpap.com/blog/best-sleep-apnea-apps/
I believe this is still very valuable if you are going to the Dr. on a regular basis.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 23, 2022)

Personally, I use a program called OSCAR.  It gives the user far more details than the programs and apps shown in the URL.  Enough details to figure out the interaction of your pap machine with your body.  Enough detail so you can determine what changes you need to make.  It reads out data that your pap machine recorded, breath by breath, not some obscure proxy to your sleeping like snoring volume.  You can observe the overall picture of your night, or the 267th breath of the evening.  There's enough details to determine if you need more pressure support for individual breaths or not.  You can determine what kinds of apnea you are experiencing.  This matters, since the treatment is different for obstructive, hypopnoea or central apnea.  Frankly, you can tell if your machine is the right kind for your apnea.

OSCAR is light years ahead of the manufacturers software.  It empowers the patient, rather than being beholden to the medical racket and their insurance company puppet masters.  OSCAR is an awesome tool.  Very highly recommended.


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## MikeInOr (Apr 23, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Personally, I use a program called OSCAR.  It gives the user far more details than the programs and apps shown in the URL.  Enough details to figure out the interaction of your pap machine with your body.  Enough detail so you can determine what changes you need to make.  It reads out data that your pap machine recorded, breath by breath, not some obscure proxy to your sleeping like snoring volume.  You can observe the overall picture of your night, or the 267th breath of the evening.  There's enough details to determine if you need more pressure support for individual breaths or not.  You can determine what kinds of apnea you are experiencing.  This matters, since the treatment is different for obstructive, hypopnoea or central apnea.  Frankly, you can tell if your machine is the right kind for your apnea.
> 
> OSCAR is light years ahead of the manufacturers software.  It empowers the patient, rather than being beholden to the medical racket and their insurance company puppet masters.  OSCAR is an awesome tool.  Very highly recommended.


It has been a while since I have used such a program but that is EXACTLY what I was recommending!  I don't remember if it was Oscar or a different public domain program that I used but it pulled details stats from my cpap via bluetooth.


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## Jimsehr (Apr 23, 2022)

My friend takes Prevagen daily and gets dumber daily.


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## vtcnc (Apr 25, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> So I went to the Dr, went for a sleep study. I have sleep apnea. I stop breathing on average 66 times per hour, had a high of 74 times in one hour during the night. A cpap machine will take until June or July to be available. This is the reason for my memory loss they tell me. Also why I am so tired all the time. I nod out if I sit in the couch... I wake up and am still exhausted. But at this point they don't think it's anything degenerative. So can't wait to get a cpap and find out. I hope I can sleep with it. All of my sports /motorcycle injuries over the years have added up. I can't lay on my sides. I prefer to start sleeping on my chest to ease the pain, then wind up on my back usually. I hope the cpap will work with that type of sleep..



I’ve been on a CPAP for about 3 years now. My morning headaches disappeared after about two weeks of regular use. I used to have headaches every day in the morning. Now I get a headache due to stress and maybe one every few months at that.

After one month of CPAP nightly use….I’m not the testimonial type of guy, but the CPAP literally changed my life. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vtcnc (Apr 25, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Really happy you found this. With the appropriate machine, the use of a xPAP machine should greatly improve your life. As a warning, it may be hard to get used to the alien thing on your face. But at least for me now, I'd rather use mine than not. When I use it my quality of life is literally 100 times better than without. I had undiagnosed sleep apnea for decades. I had cluster headaches, that were like migraines that didn't respond to any treatment. After CPAP treatment, all the headaches vanished. The headaches were due to lack of quality sleep. I don't get these headaches anymore and I like that.
> 
> Also, don't assume the mask they give you is the right one. Mask fitting takes a while to find a brand and style that works for you. Don't be afraid to try a lot of them. If you get a lousy night sleep, it might be the mask, not the machine. Some masks have lower or higher CO2 exchange or dilution and it may affect your sleep quality.



The headaches are due to oxygen depravation throughout the night. I was not breathing up to 70x (instances) per night. Your O2 levels drop dramatically and the headaches anchor in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## woodchucker (Jul 7, 2022)

Finally got my machine yesterday. * One night with it and I love it.* I had a good night sleep, no mouth breathing because my air way was clear. I had a deep sleep, first time in a long time.  1st night ... amazing. Only need to adjust the pressure, as it ramped up to too much later in the sleep cycle and was blowing out the sides. He told me I would have to adjust it. The auto setting is only so good.  That's what woke me up two or three times.


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## vtcnc (Jul 7, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> Finally got my machine yesterday. * One night with it and I love it.* I had a good night sleep, no mouth breathing because my air way was clear. I had a deep sleep, first time in a long time.  1st night ... amazing. Only need to adjust the pressure, as it ramped up to too much later in the sleep cycle and was blowing out the sides. He told me I would have to adjust it. The auto setting is only so good.  That's what woke me up two or three times.


Wait until about two weeks from now. You will feel like a new man.

I had to ramp mine down as well after about a week. Aerophagia (air-eating) is a common side effect and can be quite uncomfortable for you and very noisy for the family the next morning.


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## WobblyHand (Jul 7, 2022)

Hope all your nights sleep are as good as last night!  Feels good to have slept!


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## mcostello (Jul 7, 2022)

Machine settings here are top secret, No one gives them out. Dr. sets them away from patients eyes.


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## woodchucker (Jul 7, 2022)

mcostello said:


> Machine settings here are top secret, No one gives them out. Dr. sets them away from patients eyes.


you can go online and find out how to set them, that's what I did.


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## vtcnc (Jul 7, 2022)

Dr. Google knows how to access the settings.


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## woodchucker (Jul 7, 2022)

vtcnc said:


> Dr. Google knows how to access the settings.


duckduckgo  I got tired of google not finding stuff on how to... they only wanted to sell me stuff... I want to do or make it myself.
with duckduckgo I get that. Although it's starting to be more sell oriented.  damn it.


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