# Cheap Chinese face mill?



## Hukshawn (Nov 18, 2017)

You get what you pay for?! No wayyy!!! Get outta town!!

Bought a 2" face mill on fleabay for 20 bucks. It came with 10 inserts. Which, big surprise, have no numbers on them. But the ad lists APMT1604PDER.

Anyways. I had to make an R8 arbor for it. That was a good lesson. Took the final cuts on the face mill arbor down to dimension in the mill to get rid of any run out. 
So, it seems the 4 flutes are not even. Put a DTI on the inserts and they vary as much as .003. 
I also have to just touch the inserts to the diamond stone to give it an edge cause there's a radius just before the cutting edge, so it just burnishes without sharpening. 
So, as you can imagine, it doesn't leave a very nice finish. Did I likely buy a dud, or is there something I can do to save this mill? I'm gonna take the inserts out and test it again and see if it's just crummy inserts.


----------



## GarageGuy (Nov 18, 2017)

I had a 2.5" shell mill with 6 slotted brazed carbide cutting tools that came with my Jet-15 benchtop mill.  It was truly junk.  It beat itself to death the first time I tried to use it.  Unless your face mill was brand new, someone could have put the wrong inserts in it.  Something as small as the wrong radius on the cutting edge could keep it from working right.  Do you have a photo of it?  Maybe someone will recognize it.


----------



## Hukshawn (Nov 18, 2017)

It’s a cheap no name Chinese piece of junk. I wasn’t expecting much from it, but I was hopeful. It was all new. No one prior to mess it up. All me.


----------



## GarageGuy (Nov 19, 2017)

Is there any runout when it's turning?  I think that's what they call a shell mill, and it uses a shell mill holder to attach it to the mill.  If everything is not perfectly true, it won't leave a good finish.

GG


----------



## Hukshawn (Nov 19, 2017)

I had tested various run outs later on, yes, the whole thing had a wobble, but my arbor was perfect.


----------



## Hukshawn (Nov 19, 2017)

I bought it from eBay, I contacted I seller. They'll likely just send another one.


----------



## GarageGuy (Nov 19, 2017)

There are different size shell mill holders.  If you get the right size to fit yours, that might do the trick.  It doesn't take much deviation to cause a problem.

GG


----------



## Hukshawn (Nov 19, 2017)

This is what I made. But with a second step where the screw is with a cap screw cause of how the mill was made. But the big shoulder, dog, and the arbor are the same


----------



## petertha (Dec 17, 2017)

It looks generically similar to a Taiwan 4-insert head I have which cuts like a dream. I have experienced surface finish variation in some knock-off inserts, so you may have 2 separate issues here where the tool is ok but inserts not. Although I would not have expected that on a 'package' where inserts included. But I have read of others who had similar bad experience so maybe some duds out there.

I've noticed on some knockoff lathe tool holders they use more 'standard' insert screws, which normally I think is a desirable thing vs. proprietary $$ screws on big name tooling. However the screw quality varies from 'ok' to 'yeesh'. If the screws don't engage the insert properly there can be some float in how the insert comes to final position when tightened. I'm inly guessing that the milled pocket edge is supposed to takes care of insert positioning & the screw just provides clamping force. Some tooling have tapered pockets to match the insert bevel & some are straight. But I cant determine if its a manufacturing shortcut or this is acceptable on 'brand name' tooling of a certain type/size. On lathe tooling this variation might not be as big a deal as long as its supported, but on mill tooling I can see where varying insert positioning results in different DOC per insert & that cant be a good thing. I'm going to check my setting variation, you have me curious. 

btw are these rub marks or just felt pen or something?


----------



## NortonDommi (Dec 17, 2017)

I purchased a similar Chinese shell mill with an arbor off E-bay and can find no fault with it and I have worked it hard. Like *petertha* I too wonder about those marks.


----------



## Hukshawn (Dec 17, 2017)

Those are grind marks. The inserts were likely for steel. I touched the inserts to the wheel to take the radius off cause I was testing on aluminum and it wouldn't cut. 
I took all the inserts out and put a DTI on the bottom face. The cutter body was out 010 on the bottom. But the spindle ran true. So the whole thing was out of wack.
I got rid of this cutter anyways. I have another one coming in the mail. Try again...


----------



## petertha (Dec 17, 2017)

I just measured my face mill.  I clamped a 123 block in the vise, locked the head & lowered the quill so insert just contacted block with same resistance. Then rotate next insert position to exact same mark on block & recorded Z deviation, I have an accurate DRO on the quill. I get 0.0000, -0.0002, 0.0000, -0.0003". Given that the inserts are used & 'offshore goldies', I think it safe to assume these heads are designed to be at exact same DOC? I can provide some pics of head but hopefully this gives the relevant info. Just eyeballing - the clearance gap from bottom face of tool when the inserts are in contact, guessing ~.030-.040".


----------



## Hukshawn (Dec 19, 2017)

So, I bought another cheap Chinese 4 flute face mill. This time I bought it with a matching R8 arbor. 

I have yet to try it for a large facing cut, I tried it on a shoulder I was cutting. It's loud! But I suppose it's an interupted cut. 

How loud are facemills generally? 
Also, it comes with APMT inserts, says they're for metal. They're cheap too.... Any recommendations on decent ones and ones that are suitable for aluminum?


----------



## T Bredehoft (Dec 19, 2017)

I was taught that face mills should have at least two inserts cutting at one time, otherwise the loading and unloading would make problems for the machine.


----------



## Hukshawn (Dec 19, 2017)

Makes sense.


----------



## 4GSR (Dec 19, 2017)

In general, face mills can be loud.  An fully ground insert will lesson the noise over one that is preformed un-ground.  The style of the insert can have bearing on noise or "beating to death" the mill.  It also depends on the rigidity of the mill also.  Light duty light weight will be very noisy and loud regardless what you do.  A big chunky old iron mill, it'll sound like sweet music to the ears.


----------



## Hukshawn (Dec 19, 2017)

Can you recommend some inserts you like? I'm really unfamiliar with them.


----------



## 4GSR (Dec 19, 2017)

Off hand, no.

It's almost a hit and miss deal getting ones that will cut perfectly.

I don't have one of these style face mills in my shop.  I've used them at other places I've worked at and never got one to be quite on a Bridgport type of mill.  Bigger CNC mills, no problem. 
I'm using old school triangle TPG insert tooling on my old Index mill.  Depending how hard the material, the noise level varies.  I don't know of a quite one out there without going to a high shear type of face mill. And it don't quieten it that much either.

Ken


----------



## Hukshawn (Dec 19, 2017)

I wasn't speaking specifically of quiet, but just something that fits well. 

However, I say all this but after the big fly cutter I made last night, I really don't know how much I'll use the face mill. I'm quite impressed with the fly cutter. And with the cobalt tool in it, it should cut almost anything I'll ever need it for.


----------



## petertha (Dec 20, 2017)

Some pics 
- my face mill for reference in case the geometry looks different to yours. 
- insert depth test I did. If there is depth setting difference by design, it sure must be teeny. 
- uncoated + low nose radius insert for aluminum just sails through that material & leave a very nice finish. I have no use for a fly cutter anymore. 

I considered getting a bigger diameter tool but... its an RF-45 mill set up about as accurate as I can get. Taking ~1.5" swaths of material is a nice compromise of machine power, finish & getting the work done. A larger head means more inserts & probably more sensitive to any table/spindle inaccuracy & machine rigidity. Just a personal opinion. Thus far I have not tried milling on the edge of this particular insert but I cant help but think its probably not ideal for that. I generally use end mills for that.


----------



## T Bredehoft (Dec 20, 2017)

petertha said:


> I cant help but think its probably not ideal for that (_milling on the edge_).



That's why its' called a "Face" mill.


----------



## Hukshawn (Dec 20, 2017)

True.


----------



## HBilly1022 (Dec 20, 2017)

I bought a cheap (CAD$150) 3" diameter 5 insert face mill about a year ago and recall it not working very well. So I put it away thinking I would look at it in the future but after reading your post I was curious and went to the shop to see if I could figure out why I had an issue with it. I should have taken a pic. I snugged all the inserts up to their stops and then took a very light facing cut on some mild steel to form a reference surface. It sounded like my fly cutter. Then I moved the face mill close to the edge of the surface that was just milled so I could rotate the head and check the clearance for each insert. What a POS. I didn't need feeler gauges to measure the gap between the insert and the surface. A tape measure would have been good enough. At least 1/16" gap between the low and the high. Plus there was a huge difference in cutting diameter. I'm guessing about 1/8". 

So I figured I would try to get all the edges lined up vertically and horizontally by making a jig and rotating the face mill to set each insert, one at a time and setting both the depth and diameter of cut. After way too much time doing this, I figured I had it nailed and took a light cut on the same material. The result was slightly better but a total waste of time. _Maybe _some day I will try to figure out how to make this better or it will be relegated to the dumb a$$ drawer of stuff I bought.


----------



## petertha (Dec 21, 2017)

Were they these same (APxx 1604) inserts or something different? I have to think the pockets themselves control 99% of the insert height relative to cutting plan datum. Maybe there is a way you can get a DTI in the top corner of each pocket to compare. If that checks out, then maybe the screw hole is low & drawing the insert down? (but you would visibly see a gap on top of insert). 

Just a thought, have you calipered the inserts themselves to see if they are identical? If for example you had different nose radii other geometric feature, would that account for different contact height? I really don't know how these are designed. Maybe the contact position is supposed to be identical. Or maybe the parallelogram is the same but a larger nose radius would effectively shorten the height?


----------



## Hukshawn (Dec 21, 2017)

Wow... I'm really glad I only spent $20 on these... 

This second one I got is better than the first. I just tried it on some aluminum. A bigger piece than before. 3 flutes cutting at once rather than the 1 maybe 2 I tried before. Much quieter, but still a rough finish. Better than before. But you can still tell there is a carbide low. Feels like a fly cutter fed too fast. Slightly shiny, but looks like ripples. No matter how slow I fed. 
But, I think it's acceptable. I'm not cutting mirrors... It'll do what I want it to, I think.


----------



## Hukshawn (Dec 21, 2017)

My inserts are cheap APKT1604.


----------



## petertha (Dec 21, 2017)

If you don't have a DRO on your Z axis, rig up a DTI or dial indicator upside down so the plunger is pointing up. Rotate each insert over the ball by hand (probably backwards would be best). That should tell you everything about relative depth setting between them. You may have some other issue like the head s cocked on the arbour or pockets milled incorrectly, but at least this should point you in right direction.


----------



## HBilly1022 (Dec 21, 2017)

petertha said:


> Were they these same (APxx 1604) inserts or something different? I have to think the pockets themselves control 99% of the insert height relative to cutting plan datum. Maybe there is a way you can get a DTI in the top corner of each pocket to compare. If that checks out, then maybe the screw hole is low & drawing the insert down? (but you would visibly see a gap on top of insert).
> 
> Just a thought, have you calipered the inserts themselves to see if they are identical? If for example you had different nose radii other geometric feature, would that account for different contact height? I really don't know how these are designed. Maybe the contact position is supposed to be identical. Or maybe the parallelogram is the same but a larger nose radius would effectively shorten the height?



petertha; I think you were responding to me, in which case the answer is no. They are equilateral inserts that are held with wide head screws on the edge of the insert (not through the middle) and of course there are no numbers on them. I can clearly see one of the inserts protruding more than the others. I'm pretty sure it is a pocket issue vs an insert issue.  

Wish I kept the receipt. I would return it to the dealer.


----------



## Hukshawn (Dec 21, 2017)

I’d throw it at him if it were THAT crappy.


----------



## Hukshawn (Jan 10, 2018)

Let’s come back to this, is there a way to adjust one tooth up a thou or so without grinding the insert?


----------



## mksj (Jan 10, 2018)

Hukshawn said:


> Let’s come back to this, is there a way to adjust one tooth up a thou or so without grinding the insert?


Not really, the inserts also have a coating and are formed with specific tolerances. If you are looking for inserts I would recommend Iscar, Kennametal, Sandvik, Korloy, etc. Unfortunately most of the inserts from China are probably fake, I usually buy from US or EU vendors and only from usually tool surplus suppliers that do not sell everything else that is also made in China. Just too much junk, and the probably why you are having the problems you are seeing. Bad inserts, will cut, but not very well and do not last. Assuming these are APKT/APGT/APMT 1604 then consider the following:
For Steel ISCAR APKT 1604PDR-76 IC928 https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-pcs-ISCAR-APKT-1604PDR-76-IC928/322992042447
For Aluminum Korloy APKT1604PDFR-MA H01 https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-APKT1604PDFR-MA-H01-Carbide-Milling-Inserts-For-Aluminum/162826768705
They are also sold by Glacern under the FM90 link below.

Sometimes one is better off getting something like a Shar's or better yet Glacern cutting head with inserts. At the end of the day, you get much better tolerances and cutting performance for not to much more spend. The other factor that scares me big time is poor hardware and soft screws. One of those goes with an insert, it could cause some serious damage. I also have had better luck buying new old stock or lightly used cutter heads from the same brands mentioned above, I can easily shave a thousandth cleanly off of an aluminum block with a mirror finish. One cutter head that is setup for aluminum has 4 cutting surfaces per insert, so you get a lot of mileage out of them, another has 8 cutting surfaces setup for steel. Also have an APKT 2" head with 6 inserts. When machining aluminum you want uncoated polished carbide, usually a cutter with a forward cant like the FM45.

http://www.shars.com/products/index...lling/2-1-2-45-degree-face-mill-seht-insert-1
http://www.shars.com/products/index...e-milling/3-45-degree-face-mill-seht-insert-1
https://www.glacern.com/fm45
https://www.glacern.com/fm90


----------



## T Bredehoft (Jan 11, 2018)

How about shimming the others down?  I had to set some (we called them ) catheads, 10 inches long and 14 in diameter with a number of inserts on the face, in order to get them all the same we routinely put up to .005 shims under the low ones. These were for the first rough cut on the OD face of full sized Ford, Chevy and Chrysler disc brakes. The spindles these were mounted on had roller bearings 42" diameter.


----------



## Hukshawn (Jan 11, 2018)

Thanks for the info, guys. I think I may go and talk to the guys at my local industrial supplier and see what I can get.


----------



## Technical Ted (Jan 11, 2018)

I just received it yesterday and haven't used it yet, but I just got one of these. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PWCYLSI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I already have a bunch of TPG321 & 322 inserts and the few lathe carbide holders I have take these inserts as well, so I thought it made sense, for my use, to keep all inserts the same. The cutter has good reviews and a nice price. 

Ted


----------



## Hukshawn (Jan 11, 2018)

I have a bunch of accusize tools. Their quality is about the same. Some good, some crusty. They’re local to me, actually. About 45 mins away.


----------



## 4GSR (Jan 12, 2018)

Hukshawn said:


> Let’s come back to this, is there a way to adjust one tooth up a thou or so without grinding the insert?


Going up, no.  Now you could place a piece of shim stock behind the insert to get it up where you want it.  If you want to machine the pocket a little, I would set up in a rotary table, one with compound tilt, so you can match up the angles as close as you can get it.  Do so by using a DTI and indicate the insert pocket in both directions.  Once done use a sharp endmill and kiss the side of the pocket, just enough that it cleans up.  Apply a little cutting oil to the surface.  Your only talking about taking a thousandth or so.  Before indexing, set up a height gage with a DTI and touch off on the pocket at some reference point that you would use for each pocket in each location.  Once done. Index to the next pocket using the height gage to get the pocket into exact placement.  Without moving in X on your mill table take a cut across the back of the pocket in Y.  If it cuts, fine, if not, mark it and come back to it later.  Go to the next pocket and repeat.  If one of the pockets did not cleanup, go back to that pocket and adjust X till it cuts. Then go to all of the other pockets.  Once done, lets hope the screws will still hold the insert in the pocket without moving.  If too much material is removed the insert screw will not hold the insert in place properly. You only get one chance at doing this.  It either works or it doesn't work.

Oops, came into this conversation way too late.  Sorry.


----------



## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 14, 2018)

I would suggest trying some ground inserts for aluminium (usually have H01 in the designation) like these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-APKT...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

or even some APGT inserts
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-10Pcs-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

ground inserts usually have closer tolerances, which may reduce the tip height variation you're seeing, but more importantly reduce the cutting force. Lower cutting force = more shearing and less bludgeoning of the material which usually gives a better finish. No personal experience with face mills, but the difference between CCMT (molded, like your APKT/ APMT) and CCGT (ground) is like night and day. The ground inserts are a little less robust, but in a home shop they'll still last forever.

However, here's what I'll probably get when I save up the $
https://www.ebay.com/itm/KM12-50-22...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

and
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-SEHT...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

the 45deg face mills are supposed to give a much better finish at the cost of not being able to face up to a shoulder. This all from reading however.


----------



## 4GSR (Jan 14, 2018)

I have a old school 45 deg lead angle face mill that uses SEK_ style insert that is used with a clamp.  Does leave a nice finish!


----------



## xman_charl (Jan 14, 2018)

worked Korean factory, milling x-ray grids

Laugan mill, the cutter, had carbide inserts, think about 12 inserts

inserts could be adjusted within a thou

all carbide inserts where ground at another place

put dial indicator on table, do each cutter

2 set screws for each insert

afters cutting,  plates went to x-ray for flatness, cracks, flaws

could not use something like a surface grinder, as plate was
sandwitched, with lead, aluminum, strips

plates where soaked in epoxy, baked, and shipped

base price was about $800 each

when used at hospitals for awhile, plate will develope cracks, do
its replaced

Charl


----------



## petertha (Jan 23, 2018)

Hukshawn said:


> I have a bunch of accusize tools. Their quality is about the same. Some good, some crusty. .


  Is the 'problem' insert milling head an Accusize item, or you sourced from a different vendor? (just wondering because Accusize sells on ebay too).


----------



## Hukshawn (Jan 23, 2018)

petertha said:


> Is the 'problem' insert milling head an Accusize item, or you sourced from a different vendor? (just wondering because Accusize sells on ebay too).


No, my face mill was a $20 facemill from a no name chinese eBay seller, not accusize. However, it's turning out that accusize isnt too far above those cheap Chinese items. Accusize is still cheap Chinese stuff. The story I was told is that it's just a guy that's importing chinese tools, branding it, and selling them from his Richmond Hill, Toronto, warehouse. 

I solved all these issues by purchasing a brand name, American made, facemill for $250 from a local industrial supplier. It should come in any day now.


----------



## Hukshawn (Jan 26, 2018)

It finally came in.
Here's what I got
https://kar.ca/fma02-050-a0-75-se12-16.html
2 inch 3 flute.
With SEET12T3DM inserts.


I was actually surprised it was still chinese. I thought I was buying American or Japanese or something... But I may have gotten what I asked for. I said high quality chinese or low quality American. So, if this mill was $250, I'd hate to see what a high quality American equivalent is. Eep. Lol.


----------



## Hukshawn (Jan 26, 2018)

Would there be info somewhere about this insert ie, recommended DOC's etc. Or is it a generalization on the size, type, etc of the insert with each metal? I can't find anything in the catalogue.


----------



## Dan_S (Jan 26, 2018)

Hukshawn said:


> I was actually surprised it was still chinese. I thought I was buying American or Japanese or something... But I may have gotten what I asked for. I said high quality chinese or low quality American. So, if this mill was $250, I'd hate to see what a high quality American equivalent is. Eep. Lol.



It doesn't really mater who makes it, imo what differentiates the good the bad and the OK, is how much quality control it undergoes, and how skilled the people doing it are. Some places might check one part in a 1, some 1 in a 100 , others 1 in 10 etc etc.


----------



## Dan_S (Jan 26, 2018)

Hukshawn said:


> Would there be info somewhere about this insert ie, recommended DOC's etc. Or is it a generalization on the size, type, etc of the insert with each metal? I can't find anything in the catalogue.



Always go by what's on the back of the pack of inserts.


----------



## Hukshawn (Jan 26, 2018)

Dan_S said:


> Always go by what's on the back of the pack of inserts.


Ah. I did not look there. 
I have a few packs of cheap Chinese inserts and there isn't much of anything for discernible information on the back. 
Unless the row of letters in funny symbols is said information?


----------



## Dan_S (Jan 26, 2018)

Hukshawn said:


> Unless the row of letters in funny symbols is said information?



Post a picture of the back, and I or several others can probably tell you.

This is a post i did last year that explained how to read the back of an insert package.
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...-inserts-take-off-at-a-time.63807/post-528547


----------



## Hukshawn (Jan 26, 2018)

http://www.zccct.com/productList.aspx?pid=388&chanpintu=SEET-DM&tb=铣刀片


----------



## Hukshawn (Jan 26, 2018)

I feel there may be some useful information under very convenient torn section....


----------



## Dan_S (Jan 26, 2018)

Ok,

YBPM251 = the manufactures internal grading id

SEET 12T3 & SEET 42.5 are the standard ISO and ANSI sizing and tolerance standards. this is a good resource for that info http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm

DM is the manufactures chip breaker designation, but this one is kind of useless as they don't tell you anything about it like rake or land etc.

P15-P40 means it will work in Steel
M10-M30 means it works in stainless steel

this will give you a rough idea about what the numbers mean
http://carbide.ultra-met.com/Asset/ANSIISO-Specifications.pdf.


the P section is the speeds and feeds for steel

Vc = is the surface speed in meters per minute so you will need to do the math to convert it to sfpm.
Fz = is the chipload but again in metric so you will need to do the math to convert it to ipt.

the M section that is ripped off is the speeds and feeds for stainless stee,l so you should probably contact the retailer and tell them to send you that information.


----------



## Hukshawn (Jan 26, 2018)

I have no stainless, so maybe I will cross that bridge when I come to it. 

The really hard part about understanding the feeds and speeds with inserts on my mill is that I don't have power feed yet. So I'm hand feeding. Impossible to know what my feed rate is. But I have a good feel of how the insert is handling the load and the sound.


----------



## Hukshawn (Jan 26, 2018)

I plan on building a power feed, I just haven't gotten there yet. 
How could I figure out a depth of cut range from all this info?


----------



## Dan_S (Jan 26, 2018)

Hukshawn said:


> How could I figure out a depth of cut range from all this info?


Unfortunately, that's not something you can calculate, it should be a piece of information given to you by the manufacturer. For a knock-off brand insert like this it's more of a guess and check method.  

Top brands will have all the information on the back of the pack as well as on their website, but you do pay a premium for it. For example these Iscar inserts were like 15 bucks a pop but I have access to a lot more information.


----------



## Hukshawn (Jan 26, 2018)

Hmm. I wouldn't called these cheaper inserts. $8 each.
I guess I just gotta mount it up and go for it and find out


----------



## Dan_S (Jan 26, 2018)

Hukshawn said:


> Hmm. I wouldn't called these cheaper inserts. $8 each.
> I guess I just gotta mount it up and go for it and find out


It's all relative, I know people who would tell you $15 an insert is cheap.


----------



## Hukshawn (Jan 26, 2018)

Lol. Certainly not me! Especially for a hobby!


----------



## Hukshawn (Jan 26, 2018)

oh... my... stars.... ! its wonderful... just wonderful.


i put it on my cheap chinese R8 arbor cause i forgot to get a good one when i orda ered the mill. but it doesnt matter. its just wonderful...

i had been making new vise jaws for English Hylo vise rebuild from some 4140, which was what spawned this whole face mill fiasco. i havent squared the second jaw yet, so, i threw it in the vise, took a few passes about 010-015 each time till it leveled out. there is play in a barring or shaft somewhere in the pulley head of my mill, when i have an interrupted cut, my mill is very noisy but usually quiets down once the cut is no longer interrupted. which is exactly what happened... infact, once all 3 teeth were engaged in the work the mill was actually quieter than running no load. seriously... if it werent for nice straw coloured chips flying all across my garage, i wouldnt have even known it was cutting! ohh man, i was so excited i was cranking that X handle laughing like a child.. hahaha. 
once i was done with the cut, i ran the same test as i did on the cheap mill. after the last pass i lowered the quill just until the insert started rubbing the work, then hand cranked the drive to see how each insert contacts the work. with the old head, thats when i realized how far off each insert was. this mill, all three rub exactly the same amount. aaaaand thats when i chipped an insert cause my hand slipped and i nudged it in reverse, lol, and boop, off comes a little sliver of carbide. haha. good thing theres 3 more sides to each insert! 

/happy boy!


----------



## Hukshawn (Jan 26, 2018)

Here's a pic



The tool marks look much more significant than they actually are. This is 4140, so I was running at 600 rpm and by the end I was feeding pretty quick to see how the chips looked and how the mill handled. Back right is where I started. Much slower fees and much finer finish. and its zoomed in pretty close


----------



## Clock work (Jan 27, 2018)

Hukshawn said:


> Let’s come back to this, is there a way to adjust one tooth up a thou or so without grinding the insert?



You could shim the short ones.

I bought the highest rated face mill on Amazon and was getting extremely bad surface finishes due to what appeared to be significant variation in insert stick-out. I returned it rather than taking on another project. There's a good review of a ZCC face mill out there but I can't speak to it personally.


----------



## RobertHaas (Feb 21, 2018)

Hukshawn said:


> This is 4140, so I was running at 600 rpm and by the end I was feeding pretty quick to see how the chips looked and how the mill handled. Back right is where I started. Much slower fees and much finer finish. and its zoomed in pretty close



I turn my carbide at a much higher rate then 600 RPM I did some rough math and using my machinist manuals I came up with running my 3" face mill with 5 inserts over 1200 RPM at a fairly aggressive feed rate taking .006" cut. the finish was extremely smooth nearly mirror like and the chips stayed a light cobalt blue. I was only using brush applied cutting oil and when I set up the flood the surface became trully mirror like and the chips are clear with no heat signature at all. 

Going from HSS to carbide I am learning to increase the cutter speed to the point HSS would melt.


----------

