# Well, I got me a carbide tool grinder finally!



## Finster (Mar 29, 2017)

I'm not sure how happy about it I am. I got this China grinder on E-bay for a total of $217 shipping included. I made him an offer that apparently, he couldn't refuse. Here it be:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/132132924348?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I'm not expecting some awesome machine but I figure it will work once I put good wheels on it. After all, I'm not grinding tools in some industrial setting. I can tweak and play with it and probably make it pretty decent. I know the average China grinder from grizzly is $350  I think this is probably as good. What ya think? Be honest, I can take it.  Yea, it's no Baldor, I know.


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## brino (Mar 29, 2017)

Finister,

I do buy some import tools of lower quality, it's all about knowing what quality you need.
It sounds like you've gone into it with your eyes wide open.
You have set your expectations reasonably.

That grinder looks reasonable and quite complete.
I agree you should have a very useful tool with some minor tweaking.
...and you saved over $100 to buy new wheels for it.

Please let us know!
-brino


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## Finster (Mar 29, 2017)

brino said:


> Finister,
> 
> I do buy some import tools of lower quality, it's all about knowing what quality you need.
> It sounds like you've gone into it with your eyes wide open.
> ...


Thanks brino, Yep, it will be a little project I'm sure. I would love a Baldor but that's way over my price range at the moment and I have a real use for one because of the cutting I do.  However, I don't make that many chips so  this may just get me by.


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## Mach89 (Mar 29, 2017)

Looks like a decent machine. As you said, you can always tweak it and make it work for you. I do that with a lot of stuff.


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 29, 2017)

I think I saw a video on youtube where a guy totally tweaks on of those Chinese grinders and fixed the few faults that they have. With a little time and careful set up it will serve you well I'm sure. I always think about what we would like to have and what we as hobbyist can afford to have. I think about myself in this mostly, I am not a pro, don't know half of what some of the great folks here know. But I like this craft and it serves me well in so many ways. I try and find good deals on stuff and not buy absolute crap. Some of the Chinese stuff is ok and some is crap, Taiwanese stuff is usually better especially when it comes to machines. So I wouldn't second guess your purchase, it looks new, can be tweaked, and I'm sure it will serve you well. Congratulations on finding a good deal that puts another useful tool in your shop.


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## royesses (Mar 29, 2017)

That is exactly the same grinder I purchased from Enco. I got it for $220 on sale. If you need parts you can get them from Grizzly, they sell the same grinder and all of the replacement parts for it. I use Shars cbn and diamond wheels on mine. I made a lot of  improvements to get the grinder to run smooth. There are many YouTube videos on the grinder mods, here is one;

















I found the wave washer was missing on the shaft bearings causing it to howl from excessive end play. They assembled it with the bearings not pressed on all the way and used the motor end bells to push the bearings on the last bit so it would have no end play. It quickly developed end play.  I replaced the shaft bearings with Nachi bearings and put in a wave washer I purchased from McMaster-Carr. I made new nuts to hold the wheels on and turned new bushings to keep the back plates running true. Lots of filing and fitting on the work supports and angle brackets to make them tilt easily and smoothly. I milled the wheel cutouts on the support plate to be parallel to the  miter gauge slots.  The grinder is now vibration free and a great addition to the shop. The base was rocking on its stand and had to be cut .125" to true and level it. I used a belt sander to true it up as my mini mill was too small to accommodate the base. I turned the wheel plates on the lathe to true them up. It's a lot of work to do for a new grinder but it was actually fun and a lot cheaper than a used Baldor. This grinder is the same as the harbor freight grinder and in fact the instruction manual that came with mine says to call harbor freight if you have problems. They must have forgot to remove that from the manual. The Chinese tools are more of an unfinished kit than a working tool when you get them.

Roy


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## Finster (Mar 29, 2017)

royesses said:


> That is exactly the same grinder I purchased from Enco. I got it for $220 on sale. If you need parts you can get them from Grizzly, they sell the same grinder and all of the replacement parts for it. I use Shars cbn and diamond wheels on mine. I made a lot of  improvements to get the grinder to run smooth. There are many YouTube videos on the grinder mods, here is one;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 *"The Chinese tools are more of an unfinished kit than a working tool when you get them."*  LMAO! That is a great way to put it!


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## coffmajt (Mar 29, 2017)

Finster said:


> I'm not sure how happy about it I am. I got this China grinder on E-bay for a total of $217 shipping included. I made him an offer that apparently, he couldn't refuse. Here it be:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/132132924348?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
> 
> I'm not expecting some awesome machine but I figure it will work once I put good wheels on it. After all, I'm not grinding tools in some industrial setting. I can tweak and play with it and probably make it pretty decent. I know the average China grinder from grizzly is $350  I think this is probably as good. What ya think? Be honest, I can take it.  Yea, it's no Baldor, I know.


I have a grinder that looks very similar to your picture that came from enco.  It was not very true when it arrived but all it took was to remove the rotor and put it in the lathe, indicate it in and then face the aluminum grinding wheel mounting plates true ( they were running out about .oo5) I also removed the guards and made my own so that I could use the tool and cutter grinder attachements that I had built for sharpening end mills and drill bits.  Overall I have been happy with the unit and it was $900 cheaper than a Baldor == Jack


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## Finster (Mar 29, 2017)

So what two wheels do you reckon I should put on this? One side I will need for grinding brazed on carbide. The other side Maybe HSS lathe tooling when I'm trying to get that perfect angle. I would like to stay reasonably priced. I'm not made of money and I could hear my wife's eyebrows raise over the phone when I told her I bought this.


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## ghostdncr (Mar 30, 2017)

That looks like a fine score, and it also looks like there are plenty of options for fixing any shortcomings you may find with it.

I've never had a grinder like this at home, but most of the shops I've worked in kept one of the Baldors around for carbide. Without exception, they've always ran the green silicon carbide stones on the left for roughing and a finer diamond wheel on the right to finish the edge. Not sure about grit on either wheel, though. I've kept a fine diamond bench stone of some sort in my tool box for years and find if I keep the cutting edge honed (not truly "honed" but a much finer edge than what's left by the diamond wheel), I don't do much actual grinding on carbide cutters.


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## Finster (Mar 30, 2017)

ghostdncr said:


> That looks like a fine score, and it also looks like there are plenty of options for fixing any shortcomings you may find with it.
> 
> I've never had a grinder like this at home, but most of the shops I've worked in kept one of the Baldors around for carbide. Without exception, they've always ran the green silicon carbide stones on the left for roughing and a finer diamond wheel on the right to finish the edge. Not sure about grit on either wheel, though. I've kept a fine diamond bench stone of some sort in my tool box for years and find if I keep the cutting edge honed (not truly "honed" but a much finer edge than what's left by the diamond wheel), I don't do much actual grinding on carbide cutters.


Well I believe the rough wheel should be around 60 grit. I doubt the wheels that come on this are of very high quality but I'll give one a try. I don't know about grit for a diamond wheel. Most of the shops I worked at years ago used a white wheel but I have no idea what it was and we used mostly HSS. I'm sure others will chime in on this.


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## ghostdncr (Mar 30, 2017)

I would guess those white wheels to be aluminum oxide? Pretty sure that's what most all I've encountered were. I don't think it's been mentioned, but you might consider dressing these wheels when you get it setup. Getting the sides and face of the wheels trued up will usually cut WAY down on vibration from out of balance wheels.


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## royesses (Mar 30, 2017)

When I first got my grinder I planned on a green silicon carbide for carbide tools and a white aluminum oxide for HSS. The white wheel is very difficult to find. Camel makes them in white so I ordered 2. They would not fit. The mounting bolts heads for the wheel hit the inside diameter of the wheel.  They would need to be mounted on a lathe and a diamond tipped boring bar used to open up the inside diameter of the wheel. That's why I went with CBN and diamond wheels from Shars. They run about $100.00 each. They have countersunk holes for the mount bolts on the CBN and non countersunk holes on the diamond wheel. I used shcs on the diamond wheel and countersunk flat head bolts on the CBN wheel. I snugged up the bolts on both wheels and used a dial indicator to get less than .001" or better tir on the wheels and tightened them down. I can easily balance a nickle on edge while the grinder is running and it will stay there without moving. This may be the wrong procedure but it works. I may have gotten a defective set of the Camel white wheels, but I wasn't about to try for another set. I am not recommending you do what I have done, just trying to give some information.  Here are the specs for the Shars wheels:


*6x1 D6A2C Diamond Plain Cup Wheel*
SKU 505-2220
Wheel Type 6A2C
Wheel Shape straight cup
diameter 6
Wheel Thickness 3/4
Hole 1-1/4
Diamond Depth 1/16
Rim Width 1
Grit 150
Concentration 75
Bonding resin
Coating uncoated
Core Material bar stock aluminum
 Dia: 6"
 Thickness: 1/16"
Product Spotlight
 For carbide tool grinders in 6" diameter
 Diamonds on outer rim
 Bolt holes on countersink  wrong- not countersunk
catalog page 187


*6x1 D6A2C CBN Plain Cup Wheel*
SKU 504-2220
3
Wheel Type 6A2C
Wheel Shape straight cup
diameter 6
Wheel Thickness 3/4
Hole 1-1/4
Diamond Depth 1/16
Rim Width 1
Grit 150
Concentration 75
Bonding resin
Coating uncoated
Core Material bar stock aluminum
 Dia: 6"
 Thickness: 1/16"
 Hole: 1-1/4"
 Depth: 1"
 Grit: 150
 Concentration: 75%
For carbide tool grinders in 6" diameter
 Diamonds on outer rim
 Bolt holes on countersink

And the Camel grinding wheels:
*CGW Type 50 White AO Grinding Wheel And Silicon Carbide Grinding Wheels*
800-447-4248
UPC #: 34948
Name: White Aluminium Oxide
Wheel
Opening Diameter: 6″
Arbor Hole Size: 4″
Height: 1″
Grit: 46 (Medium)
Grade: K (Medium)
Bond: V (Vitrified)
Specification: WA-46K-V
Max Operating Speed: 3,450 RPM
Colour: White
Material: Aluminium Oxide
Type: 50 – Plate mount wheel

Roy


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## Tozguy (Mar 30, 2017)

Finster said:


> So what two wheels do you reckon I should put on this? One side I will need for grinding brazed on carbide. The other side Maybe HSS lathe tooling when I'm trying to get that perfect angle. I would like to stay reasonably priced. I'm not made of money and I could hear my wife's eyebrows raise over the phone when I told her I bought this.



I'd wait and try what comes with the grinder. From the pictures the wheels already on it might not be half bad.


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## Finster (Mar 30, 2017)

royesses said:


> When I first got my grinder I planned on a green silicon carbide for carbide tools and a white aluminum oxide for HSS. The white wheel is very difficult to find. Camel makes them in white so I ordered 2. They would not fit. The mounting bolts heads for the wheel hit the inside diameter of the wheel.  They would need to be mounted on a lathe and a diamond tipped boring bar used to open up the inside diameter of the wheel. That's why I went with CBN and diamond wheels from Shars. They run about $100.00 each. They have countersunk holes for the mount bolts on the CBN and non countersunk holes on the diamond wheel. I used shcs on the diamond wheel and countersunk flat head bolts on the CBN wheel. I snugged up the bolts on both wheels and used a dial indicator to get less than .001" or better tir on the wheels and tightened them down. I can easily balance a nickle on edge while the grinder is running and it will stay there without moving. This may be the wrong procedure but it works. I may have gotten a defective set of the Camel white wheels, but I wasn't about to try for another set. I am not recommending you do what I have done, just trying to give some information.  Here are the specs for the Shars wheels:
> View attachment 230079
> 
> *6x1 D6A2C Diamond Plain Cup Wheel*
> ...


Thanks, that's some good info. It will help!


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## Finster (Mar 30, 2017)

Tozguy said:


> I'd wait and try what comes with the grinder. From the pictures the wheels already on it might not be half bad.


I plan on giving them a shot but I don't have high hopes. I like to have a plan B


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## coffmajt (Mar 30, 2017)

Finster said:


> So what two wheels do you reckon I should put on this? One side I will need for grinding brazed on carbide. The other side Maybe HSS lathe tooling when I'm trying to get that perfect angle. I would like to stay reasonably priced. I'm not made of money and I could hear my wife's eyebrows raise over the phone when I told her I bought this.


 
For carbide I would get a $40 diamond wheel from Shars. My grinder came equipped with 2 green wheels but they will not put a really sharp edge on carbide compared to diamond. For hss I use several wheels mostly from MSC in different shapes depending on what I'm set up for (end mills drill bits. Dovetails. Etc). Jack


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## Finster (Mar 30, 2017)

royesses said:


> That is exactly the same grinder I purchased from Enco. I got it for $220 on sale. If you need parts you can get them from Grizzly, they sell the same grinder and all of the replacement parts for it. I use Shars cbn and diamond wheels on mine. I made a lot of  improvements to get the grinder to run smooth. There are many YouTube videos on the grinder mods, here is one;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ya know, the guy in this video really knows what he is doing. even if you don't have a grinder that you are thinking about tweaking, there is a lot to learn here that will be useful else ware.  I have seen this before but if you really listen and understand, It can be  applied to many things. Thank you for the post.


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 30, 2017)

All this conversation makes me want to get off my but and rebuild my baldor that I got for repairing a friends snow blower. Hows that for a trade.

It needs some love but the price was right. It wasn't even in a machine shop, it was in a fab shop and all they used it for was sharpening the tungston for tig welder torches. Notice the grooves in the wheels. It has a couple of broken bolts for the table locks to repair or replace, needs a coat of paint, and the tables cleaned up, and i'm listening to this conversation  about wheels. I think for me as I will use it mostly for lathe cutters a green wheel on one side and a diamond on the other.


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## royesses (Mar 30, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> All this conversation makes me want to get off my but and rebuild my baldor that I got for repairing a friends snow blower. Hows that for a trade.
> 
> It needs some love but the price was right. It wasn't even in a machine shop, it was in a fab shop and all they used it for was sharpening the tungston for tig welder torches. Notice the grooves in the wheels. It has a couple of broken bolts for the table locks to repair or replace, needs a coat of paint, and the tables cleaned up, and i'm listening to this conversation  about wheels. I think for me as I will use it mostly for lathe cutters a green wheel on one side and a diamond on the other.



Wow that is a definite *You Suck* deal, it even has the stand!  Get that Baldor up and running ! Too nice a tool to just leave sitting. Show us some photo's when you get it done.

Roy


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 30, 2017)

royesses said:


> Wow that is a definite *You Suck* deal, it even has the stand!  Get that Baldor up and running ! Too nice a tool to just leave sitting. Show us some photo's when you get it done.
> 
> Roy


Right after I got it I had to move, still setting up the shop's. Working 2 jobs sucks for time.  I set up the wood shop first because that took the most work and time, now I'm working on the metal shop side of my basement shop. Working on the grinder wall now so the Baldor restore is coming up.


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## Finster (Apr 11, 2017)

Well, I was on the road working for the past few weeks. I got home this morning after a 10 hour drive. I finally got to see my new grinder. It seems like it's going to be pretty good. It will need some tweaking and the wheels are horrible which I expected. The grinding wheels are so out of round, it's pathetic. when you turn them by hand, they wobble like the wheels on a clown car! Hard to believe that the Chinese can't even cast a round molded wheel. The material they are made out of seems tough, I played a little with some carbide and they worked well but they are so bad, I don't even think they could be dressed, if you can even dress a straight cup wheel. Other than that, the motor seems strong. The castings are rough but I expected that. All in all not bad for $217. It will do the job and be pretty nice with new wheels and a little TLC.


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## Finster (Apr 12, 2017)

So in the video, a few post up, the guy welds the roll pin and gets it out. I have the same machine with the same problem. I would like to get that pin out so I can get to that bushing. It's a few thousands out. I don't want to drill through the entire shaft. I'm afraid of weakening it. Lord only knows what type of metal it is. Remember, we are dealing with Chinese crap here. I can't weld it and don't want to drill it out. I tried grabbing it with pliers but there isn't enough meat to get a good enough grip to compress the pin. I even tried an easy out figuring maybe it would grab enough I could twist it out but that didn't work either. I'm open to ideas on how to get that roll pin out. I wish they would just have a key in there.


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## royesses (Apr 12, 2017)

I used a pair flush cutters to grab the end of one roll pin. I also used a self tapping sheet metal screw on the other pin. Both worked.

Roy


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## Finster (Apr 13, 2017)

royesses said:


> I used a pair flush cutters to grab the end of one roll pin. I also used a self tapping sheet metal screw on the other pin. Both worked.
> 
> Roy


Thanks, I shall give it a try.


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## ezduzit (Apr 13, 2017)

IIRC I paid $600 for this virtually brand new Baldor with wheels and factory stand.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 14, 2017)

ezduzit said:


> IIRC I paid $600 for this virtually brand new Baldor with wheels and factory stand.


Very cool, what kind of wheels do you have on it?


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## ezduzit (Apr 14, 2017)

WTG--1 diamond and 1 stone.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 14, 2017)

ezduzit said:


> WTG--1 diamond and 1 stone.


Trying to figure out what I want to put on mine when I restore it.


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## KBeitz (Jun 24, 2018)

Well it's not a Baldor but I only paid $50. for it...


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## hman (Jun 24, 2018)

Looks great - very stout and lots of adjustments.  I think you got a heck of a deal!!!!


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 24, 2018)

KBeitz said:


> Well it's not a Baldor but I only paid $50. for it...
> View attachment 270464



You stole that for $50, I would have snagged that in a heartbeat! Great score


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## Silverbullet (Jun 24, 2018)

I've had great deals with that seller on eBay , in fact we bought lots of boring heads from them on here. I have the same grinder the wheels do suck but will do for a little while. Clean up and deburr the adjusters they're sticky till ya clean them up and filed a bit .


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