# Importing a Chinese lathe



## AndySomogyi (Jul 9, 2020)

I’m seriously considering importing one of these Sumore 300x700 lathes. I don’t have a lot of room and this is about the biggest lathe I have room for.

I’ve contacted a customs broker who can arrange all of the customs / port Issues and basically all I have to do is rent a truck and go pick it up at the warehouse when it arrives. The customs broker was surprisingly helpful and described the process as very straightforward and easy, plus they charge a very reasonable fee.

Anyways, including shipping and with a complete suite of accessories including DRO, nice stand, QCTP, tooling, coolant pump, etc, all comes to around $3000 USD.

that’s a good $1500 less than any US supplier of what I can tell is the same lathe.

I’ve been speaking with the manufacturer and they will provide all the inspection certificates, and looks like most tolerances are around 0.02mm.

Edit: checked to manufacturer, and lathes are built to customer spec. You can order a high precision one for an extra $100 USD that had 0.005 mm bearing, and 0.01mm ways. Hardened and ground ways and spindle.

comes with D1 camlock spindle.

The really great thing is I can get the lathe in ALL METRIC! I work exclusively in metric so imperial tools are a massive pain.

Any thoughts on this route?


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## savarin (Jul 9, 2020)

An ex friend of mine went down that route here, by the time he had jumped through all the hoops and paid all the thousands (slight exaggeration) of small hidden fees to shift the paper work between all the various and many offices he saved around $400 AU.
He imported two so as to sell one for profit, he tried to sell that one to me for the full retail price, I declined.
If your savings are really that much then well done.


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## Dhal22 (Jul 9, 2020)

One broken part and where are you...................?


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## mikey (Jul 9, 2020)

Dhal22 said:


> One broken part and where are you...................?



My thought as well. Support for new machines is important. 

I hope they have a full change gear set available for that lathe. They also don't say what kind of spindle mount it has, nor do they quote their spindle run out specs. All important stuff to me, Andy.


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 9, 2020)

They said 0.01mm spindle runout, has a D1 cam lock spindle.

Does have a 2 year warranty, and I suppose after that, I can just call Precision Mathews and buy parts from them, I think this is exactly identical to PM's PM-1127VF-LB, or Sumore said the will continue to make parts available after warranty. 

Good points though


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## mikey (Jul 9, 2020)

Do you happen to know if the gears and spindle are hardened and ground? 

Not trying to discourage you in the least, Andy. Mostly just curious about this machine because I've never heard of it before.


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## matthewsx (Jul 9, 2020)

$3k is still a lot of money. Have you identified any older lathes that are metric and were imported here? 

I wonder if the prices you've been quoted include the tariffs?

I kinda think if it were that easy we would have a bunch of members doing the same, will be watching to see what you decide.


John


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 9, 2020)

mikey said:


> Do you happen to know if the gears and spindle are hardened and ground?
> 
> Not trying to discourage you in the least, Andy. Mostly just curious about this machine because I've never heard of it before.



I’m not sure about the gears, but I’m pretty sure the spindle is hardened and ground, at least every one I’ve see is, I can ask them. 


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## mksj (Jul 9, 2020)

When I purchased lathes and mills, other than the specs. the first thing I consider is service and parts. I have seen way too many of these import lathes where purchasers have been left with no support and no parts (like Bolton and Weiss in years past). Parts are often not interchangeable, even if machines appear to be similar and many distributors will only sell parts for their machines. You would be much better off with something like the Weiss WBL290Fwhich is sold by DRO Pros for close to the same price, comes with a 5 year warranty and you get some discount on the DRO or install your own for $200. I do about 30% of my work as metric, with a DRO you can read whatever numbers you prefer. Threading is a bit different, I personally would not go with either of these machines because the number of change gears on these models. There is the PM1228 which offers a bit more and the foot print is still pretty decent, 1236T is also nice but a bit bigger. If you want a metric version, I would contact DRO Pros, QMT or for that matter Weiss USA and see if they can import a metric version. At this price level, I do not see the value of trying to import a machine to save a few hundred dollars. I imported a major brand mill from Canada, it had a number of significant issues/defects, many of which never got fixed under "warranty". The few parts that I did get took many months, during which the mill was not usable. Others with the same mill, and also those with Sieg mills had the motor drive fail. The cost of the replacement board was over $1000, so a decent warranty and service is peace of mind even if you do not use it.



			Weiss Lathes
		



			https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1228vf-lb/


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 9, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> $3k is still a lot of money. Have you identified any older lathes that are metric and were imported here?
> 
> I wonder if the prices you've been quoted include the tariffs?
> 
> ...



Yes, includes the !%*k1ng tariffs, that’s about $500 of the cost. 


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 9, 2020)

I did call up and chat with the guys at DRO Pros, and they said the tariffs are bankrupting them and they stopped importing machines. 

Toolots does cary a Weiss and Bolton branded version of the same machine though. 



mksj said:


> When I purchased lathes and mills, other than the specs. the first thing I consider is service and parts. I have seen way too many of these import lathes where purchasers have been left with no support and no parts (like Bolton and Weiss in years past). Parts are often not interchangeable, even if machines appear to be similar and many distributors will only sell parts for their machines. You would be much better off with something like the Weiss WBL290Fwhich is sold by DRO Pros for close to the same price, comes with a 5 year warranty and you get some discount on the DRO or install your own for $200. I do about 30% of my work as metric, with a DRO you can read whatever numbers you prefer. Threading is a bit different, I personally would not go with either of these machines because the number of change gears on these models. There is the PM1228 which offers a bit more and the foot print is still pretty decent, 1236T is also nice but a bit bigger. If you want a metric version, I would contact DRO Pros, QMT or for that matter Weiss USA and see if they can import a metric version. At this price level, I do not see the value of trying to import a machine to save a few hundred dollars. I imported a major brand mill from Canada, it had a number of significant issues/defects, many of which never got fixed under "warranty". The few parts that I did get took many months, during which the mill was not usable. Others with the same mill, and also those with Sieg mills had the motor drive fail. The cost of the replacement board was over $1000, so a decent warranty and service is peace of mind even if you do not use it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






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## mikey (Jul 10, 2020)

Mark makes a really good case, Andy. Support for a new machine is important. It isn't like you can get spare parts on ebay. If the factory leaves you flat, you're done.


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## erikmannie (Jul 10, 2020)

+1 on working exclusively in metric.

I always choose to buy machines that are as common as I can find (i.e. brand names that everybody has heard of). I am looking ahead to the day when it needs a new circuit board or any other part that I wouldn’t be able to fabricate. Common brands also make troubleshooting via Google easier, not to mention resale value.


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## Shootymacshootface (Jul 10, 2020)

I'm trying my best to avoid buying anything from China these days.


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 10, 2020)

My other option is to buy the 10” Grizzly? 

I’ve got a finite amount of money and trying to stretch it as far as it can go, and trying to start a business.

I’ve got about $3000 max, so that’ll buy a 10” Grizzly, DRO and bench. 

Or a much higher spec machine imported from China.

I don’t know...


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 10, 2020)

mikey said:


> My thought as well. Support for new machines is important.
> 
> I hope they have a full change gear set available for that lathe. They also don't say what kind of spindle mount it has, nor do they quote their spindle run out specs. All important stuff to me, Andy.



I got another email back from manufacturer and they said it’s available in high precision spec for an extra $100 that gets Higher spec parts and guarantees 0.005mm spindle runout.

So, hmm, decisions decisions...


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## Choiliefan (Jul 10, 2020)

Anyone know if these tariffs are set to expire anytime soon?
Why tariff something which isn't manufactured here?
Punitive I guess...  sorry about what may be perceived as a rant.


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 10, 2020)

Choiliefan said:


> Anyone know if these tariffs are set to expire anytime soon?
> Why tariff something which isn't manufactured here?
> Punitive I guess... sorry about what may be perceived as a rant.



Tariffs will likely expire after January if you catch what I’m saying.

They’re a political stunt, and serve no other purpose. US manufacturers have not made small lathes in FORTY years, they only make extreme high dollar enterprise CNC where there is more profit. There simply isn’t enough profit with the smaller tools for US manufacturers to bother with. 

What tarrifs are doing is hurting small business and consumers because tarrifs are an extreme regressive tax. 


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## ddickey (Jul 10, 2020)

.001 mm run-out? If they claim that run away, they're crooks.


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 10, 2020)

ddickey said:


> .001 mm run-out? If they claim that run away, they're crooks.


That was a typo on my part, for the high precision bearings, it's 0.005mm runout, and 0.02 for the standard precision.


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## Janderso (Jul 10, 2020)

AndySomogyi said:


> You can order a high precision one for an extra $100 USD that had 0.005 mm bearing, and 0.01mm ways. Hardened and ground ways and spindle.


No kidding?
That's great.


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## Mitch Alsup (Jul 10, 2020)

When I bought my Grizzly G4003G 3 years ago it was only $3,300+/-. The price rise you are currently seeing is the Trump tariff.

But be that as it may, the G4003G weights in at 1200 pounds while that things weights in a 280Kg = 616 pounds. In this case, weight is your friend.


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## Choiliefan (Jul 10, 2020)

Presuming your new lathe comes by ship, how long will it take to get here?


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 10, 2020)

Choiliefan said:


> Presuming your new lathe comes by ship, how long will it take to get here?


I think they said 30 days to manufacture it (made to spec), and 20 days sailing time.


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## gr8legs (Jul 10, 2020)

AndySomogyi said:


> Sumore said the will continue to make parts available after warranty.



I have some coastal property in Oklahoma if you are interested.

I have zero faith in offshore suppliers who do not have a well-established domestic distributor with parts and tech help that speak English. Too many time what is advertised is not what is delivered and once you start complaining they start ignoring emails.  If it goes south it will be a very expensive chunk of iron scrap.

I have the T-shirt. YMMV - Good luck,

Stu


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jul 10, 2020)

any objections to buying a used lathe? $3000 is a decent amount of change to play with and could get you:
SB lathe, appears reasonably tooled, $2200








						South Bend Lathe - heavy equipment - by owner - sale
					

South Bend Lathe, Catalog# CL0187RB, Bed Length 4 1/2. Chart #6752R Converted to 115V Single Phase...



					indianapolis.craigslist.org
				




Large LeBlond, not super well tooled, $3500








						LeBlond Dual Drive Lathe with 16in swing and 54in bed - tools - by...
					

This old lathe is still ready to turn that big project for you. It is a LeBlond Dual Drive that...



					indianapolis.craigslist.org
				




Bit further afield
SB13, some tooling, $2225








						LATHE MACHINE SOUTH BEND - tools - by owner - sale
					

SOUTH BEND LATHE 13'' 2HP 3PH ON HEAVY DUTY PEDESTAL $ 2,225 7 FT O/A LONG BED 3 POINT STEADY REST...



					chicago.craigslist.org
				




Logan (11"?), well tooled, $2500








						logan lathe - tools - by owner - sale
					

12 inch swing x 36 between centers 220 volt 3 phase lathe. comes with all the tooling including 3...



					chicago.craigslist.org
				




Cincinnati tray top 12", reasonably tooled, $3000 and it's in Cincinnati!!








						Cincinnati Tray Top Lathe - tools - by owner - sale
					

12 1/2 x 42 Cincinnati Tray Top Lathe,Can see under power...I will remove when Sold



					cincinnati.craigslist.org
				




REALLY nice SB heavy 10, $4200








						South Bend Lathe Heavy 10 - tools - by owner - sale
					

South Bend Lathe Heavy 10 Model number CL 187RB Late model...1981 Long bed...4 1/2’ with hardened...



					southbend.craigslist.org
				




12" Craftsman, VERY well tooled, $1250. Not a "pro" lathe, but it'll leave a hell of a lot in your budget for other things (like a mill?)








						Craftsman 12" Lathe - tools - by owner - sale
					

12" Craftsman Atlas Metal lathe for sale. I'm asking $1250 or best reasonable offer. The pictures...



					columbus.craigslist.org
				




These will all require some effort to get, but no more than you're will to undertake importing one.

Just something to think about.


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## Aaron_W (Jul 10, 2020)

In favor of the Grizzly 10x22 they are available with both inch and metric dials. It is unclear whether of not they have inch or metric lead screw, but I know a complaint with the 9x19 is that it has a metric lead screw with inch dials.

Grizzly does have an 11x26 lathe for a few hundred more than the 10x22 but you would have to put a DRO on it yourself. Unclear if it is a metric with inch dials or inch with inch dials. 

I've used Grizzly to get parts for my Enco 9x20 (same as their G4000) and they have been easy to deal with. At least worth a call to Grizzly to see if they offer any of their lathes set up with metric dials and metric lead screws. 




mattthemuppet2 said:


> any objections to buying a used lathe? $3000 is a decent amount of change to play with and could get you:
> SB lathe, appears reasonably tooled, $2200
> 
> 
> ...



He works 100% in metric, most vintage lathes, even older imports are set up for inch.


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 10, 2020)

Thanks, but I absolutely never want the nightmare of another used lathe. I've wasted 6 months of my life that I will never get back repairing my last one, when I should have been making parts. And I don't truck, don't have a lift, so have no way of moving a used lathe. And I need metric threading at least. I know there's a lot of people here into vintage machinery, I respect that, but I just want a tool that I can use to make prototype parts, not rebuild tools.

I don't know, maybe I'll just shell out a little more and get a Precision Matthews, and have something ready to go.



mattthemuppet2 said:


> any objections to buying a used lathe? $3000 is a decent amount of change to play with and could get you:
> SB lathe, appears reasonably tooled, $2200
> 
> 
> ...


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## kb58 (Jul 10, 2020)

AndySomogyi said:


> Tariffs will likely expire after January if you catch what I’m saying.
> 
> They’re a political stunt, and serve no other purpose. US manufacturers have not made small lathes in FORTY years, they only make extreme high dollar enterprise CNC where there is more profit. There simply isn’t enough profit with the smaller tools for US manufacturers to bother with.
> 
> ...


While I agree with this completely, I know that Grizzly sells South Bend lathes... where are they manufactured?


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## Aaron_W (Jul 10, 2020)

Another though in regards to importing, maybe hit up some of our Canadian members for vendors in the North. The US to Canadian dollar exchange is in our favor and Canada has taken the conversion to metric much further tha we have. Dealing with a Canadian importer / and service provider is probably a lot easier than one in China. Might avoid some of the tarriffs as well.


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## Aaron_W (Jul 10, 2020)

kb58 said:


> While I agree with this completely, I know that Grizzly sells South Bend lathes... where are they manufactured?


 
Taiwan


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jul 10, 2020)

AndySomogyi said:


> Thanks, but I absolutely never want the nightmare of another used lathe. I've wasted 6 months of my life that I will never get back repairing my last one, when I should have been making parts. And I don't truck, don't have a lift, so have no way of moving a used lathe. And I need metric threading at least. I know there's a lot of people here into vintage machinery, I respect that, but I just want a tool that I can use to make prototype parts, not rebuild tools.
> 
> I don't know, maybe I'll just shell out a little more and get a Precision Matthews, and have something ready to go.



fair enough. I've also read of people that have wasted 6 mths of their lives fixing problems with new imports, so I guess it just depends. The requirement for native metric threading is a serious challenge though, even new Far East imports are imperial. It'll be interesting to see if Precision Matthews can source you a native metric lathe and how much it would cost. I'm guessing you've tried metric threading on your existing lathe and don't like having to leave the half nuts shut?


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 10, 2020)

I'm not 100% sure, but I read they're assembled in China, with Chinese castings, but use German bearings.  




Aaron_W said:


> ith both inch and metric dials. It is unclear whether of not they have inch or metric lead screw, but I know a complaint with the 9x19 is that it has a metric lead screw with inch dials.
> 
> Grizzly does have an 11x26 lathe for a few hundred more than the 10x22 but you would have to put a DRO on it yourself. Unclear if it is a metric with inch dials or inch with inch dials.
> 
> I've used Grizzly to get parts for my Enco 9x20 (same as their G4000) and





kb58 said:


> While I agree with this completely, I know that Grizzly sells South Bend lathes... where are they manufactured?


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 10, 2020)

I could never find change gears for my last lathe, I finally ended up selling it, just had too much bed wear for the parts I was trying to make. 

I originally thought about converting it to an electronic lead screw, but I just decided to sell it. 

With a DRO, it's not a complete show-stopper, but still be nice to have native metric dials. 



mattthemuppet2 said:


> fair enough. I've also read of people that have wasted 6 mths of their lives fixing problems with new imports, so I guess it just depends. The requirement for native metric threading is a serious challenge though, even new Far East imports are imperial. It'll be interesting to see if Precision Matthews can source you a native metric lathe and how much it would cost. I'm guessing you've tried metric threading on your existing lathe and don't like having to leave the half nuts shut?


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## Choiliefan (Jul 10, 2020)

I like the idea of ordering a machine to your chosen spec especially if well tooled.  However, I'd look deeper into the company supplying the machine and making sure one of the competing American-based sellers are actually able to supply exact repair parts as needed.
China is pretty far away for warranty service...
I'd do it but I'm a thrill seeker.


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## kb58 (Jul 10, 2020)

Crossing threads a bit (so to speak), I built the electronic lead screw that has a bunch of threads on this site. I really like the ability to dial up any thread, US or metric, but also very much understand someone wanting to buy a tool, not a project.


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## Choiliefan (Jul 10, 2020)

A turn-key solution would be terrific.


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## matthewsx (Jul 10, 2020)




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## AndySomogyi (Jul 10, 2020)

Easy to say when you have unlimited funds. I however have to live within budget, I only have my own money, and unfortunately don't have other people's money to spend. I have about $3000 saved for a lathe, that's it.

So, for $3000, I can

(a) buy a smaller and lighter duty lathe from Precision Mathews
(b) buy a higher spec machine, import it myself, and take a chance.
(c) steal someone else's money, and buy a high-spec already imported machine.
(d) spend all my money on lottery tickets, hoping to win.

I've thought about inheriting money, but sadly my parents are already dead, and they didn't have any money either.

Used lathe is out of the question, because I don't want another project, and I don't have a truck.




matthewsx said:


> View attachment 330000


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## matthewsx (Jul 10, 2020)

I fully understand limited budgets, and I have two used lathes which I did repairs on to get them where I wanted.

Like many others I've browsed alibaba and the other sites wondering if it would be worth trying to import a machine myself, if you go that route please continue to document it here as I'm sure many of us would like to acquire decent machines for a lower price than the known suppliers offer.

I've also read many threads here and elsewhere from folks trying to commission a new machine. As has been well documented, buying a brand new mainland China lathe is often just a starting point with many hours of cleaning and adjustment needed before it performs properly.

I've also had several businesses and one spectacularly bad experience with buying a machine (not a machine tool but a packaging machine) directly from a Chinese supplier. If I were in your position I would probably buy a known machine from either PM or Grizzly because stateside support could make the difference between making money or not, assuming a smaller lathe will do the work needed. If the business is successful you can upgrade with profits (kinda like option "c" above except earning the money rather than stealing). If the business isn't successful then you have a quality machine for yourself or much better resale possibilities than if you have an orphan or something with a poor reputation like Bolton.

Ultimately it's your choice but since you asked I think importing stuff from China without any experience in the field is a cr*pshoot at best. If the deal goes south you'll be out your money and without the tool you thought you paid for. In my case the purchase was made through eBay so I did get a partial refund but the machine never performed anywhere near what the supplier promised. If I'd done it direct I doubt I would have gotten anything except the box that's still taking up space.

JMHO, YMMV


Cheers,

John Matthews (no relation )


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## savarin (Jul 10, 2020)

The way things are going in China today it may be the time to wait a while till/if it all settles down.
I'm not just talking about covid19 either.
Their financial institutions are in a bad way, catastrophic flooding in many parts, bubonic plague, the Hong Kong crackdown etc etc, its a rather large list that deserves a lot more research before going ahead.


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## ErichKeane (Jul 10, 2020)

When importing something from large from China, their 'guarantee' isn't worth the paper (or email) its printed on.  Their manufacturing businesses do a fantastic job of cutting corners at every conceivable place.  Even IF they stand by their guarantee, they'll likely have some terrible sort of policy, where you have to ship it back to them (on your dime!) and re-pay the tariffs for a replacement.

PM is significantly more expensive for good reason: They need to :
1- Have someone in China that works directly for them to check the specs to catch them cutting corners early enough that you can force them to warranty them.
2- They STILL likely need to do signifcant repairs to 1 in 3.

I've heard lots of people with this plan of importing machinery from a chinese seller like this to 'take the risk', and never heard of anyone that didn't wish they just bought one state-side instead (PM offers financing btw!).


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## Liljoebrshooter (Jul 11, 2020)

they can write anything they want on those inspection certificates.  Isn't it amazing that everything seems to be just under the maximum allowances on everything?
Also the bearing specs don't mean the spindle runout is that low. 

Joe


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## Downunder Bob (Jul 11, 2020)

AndySomogyi said:


> My other option is to buy the 10” Grizzly?
> 
> I’ve got a finite amount of money and trying to stretch it as far as it can go, and trying to start a business.
> 
> ...



From personal experience, if your trying to start a business, I'd buy the best machine you can with good local support. Just a small failure and then a long wait while you sort it out, if you can, has the potential to destroy your fledgling business. Too big a risk for me.  Good luck.


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## Shootymacshootface (Jul 12, 2020)

I have seen some very capable Enco lathes on Craigslist that are set up for both metric and imperial threads. 
Don't forget that Fastenal has an awesome shipping program for people like us buying large heavy items from random parts of the country. I'm working with a nice gent in Iowa to ship him some very heavy truck parts that I  had on cl. I will have details on this Monday.


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## samstu (Jul 12, 2020)

If you are really interested in the route, I met a fellow who  imports CNC machines from China.  He travels to china frequently (or did) and has an employee who speaks chinese.  Maybe he could help or point you in right direction.   I really don't know much about this fellow otherwise.  Smith CNC.  Canal Fulton, Ohio.  Probably on google / facebook.


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## dwentz (Jul 13, 2020)

Owning a custom China built lathe built by the factory for a now out of business tool shop, I would highly recommend not going this route. Even though the company that built my lathe is still in business and it shares lots of parts with other lathes they are still not all the same as it was a custom build. The factory has very little interest in supporting the lathe that carries their name. Its just not economical for them to do, Even though I like my lathe, the supply of parts has been a large issue. I either have to buy parts for a similar lathe and hope they fit or modify them. I purchased this lateh at pennies on the dollar. But unless you have other machines to manufacture parts on I would say that you have the same odds of coming out whole ordering a custom lathe as you would if you choose to buy all those lottery tickets. I think the lottery tickets would probably be the best bet honestly.


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## Downunder Bob (Jul 13, 2020)

If you can stretch the budget to buy  a Taiwanese lathe, or any machine for that matter. I would highly recommend you go that route. 

My Taiwanese built lathe is very good quality, well built nicely finished, with no defects that I can find. I think it cost abut 25% more than a similarly specced machine from china. But I believe that the premium is worth it.

Compare some of the PM machines that are chinese made with similar specs on Taiwanese built machines> Every time I have succumbed to the price pressure and bought a chinese product I have ended up regretting it. So no more for me.


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 14, 2020)

I don't know, still thinking about it. 

The biggest regret / mistake I ever made machines wise was buying a used American lathe (Clausing). It was a complete clapped out pile of trash, and wasted six months of my life just to get it into a point where I could sell it. Still can't believe they would design it so you have to press out the spindle just to change belts. 

Compare with my Chinese Grizzly mill is fantastic, it's accurate, well designed, and just plain works. My Chinese vise, milling cutters all just plain work. About my only real complaint with my Grizzly mill is the head was abut 0.0005" / 6" out of tram in the X direction, and had to shim it.

Talked a bit more with Sumore, and they said I can have an inspector from Alibaba come out and inspect it before it ships, and Alibaba offers a performance guarantee, where you have 30 days after receiving to inspect and make sure it's within spec. They also said they would video the inspection before it ships, and send me the vid. 

Anyways, still mulling it over...


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## Aaron_W (Jul 14, 2020)

AndySomogyi said:


> I don't know, still thinking about it.
> 
> The biggest regret / mistake I ever made machines wise was buying a used American lathe (Clausing). It was a complete clapped out pile of trash, and wasted six months of my life just to get it into a point where I could sell it. Still can't believe they would design it so you have to press out the spindle just to change belts.



That isn't uncommon on older lathes, one of the reasons those link belts you can break apart have become popular. Your experience is why I don't think vintage lathes are a great choice for new hobbyists. There are advantages to both, with a vintage machine you can get a lot for your money. New is new, it is really nice when you can just call someone up and get them to make things right.

I have no experience with the path you are considering, and it sounds like nobody else does either. Good luck whichever way you go, and if you do import please document the experience here. I know I'm curious and if it works out, it might be an option for others.


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 14, 2020)

I think if your interests / hobbies are vintage machinery (and that’s freakin fantastic), AND you have a truck, AND you have a forklift, AND you have a lot of time AND you’re pretty well-off financially, then vintage lathes are a great choice for you.

If however, your business is engineering, designing and fabricating prototype and custom *automotive* performance parts, then a lathe is just a tool, and one that works with the minimal amount of fuss is the best choice.




Aaron_W said:


> That isn't uncommon on older lathes, one of the reasons those link belts you can break apart have become popular. Your experience is why I don't think vintage lathes are a great choice for new hobbyists. There are advantages to both, with a vintage machine you can get a lot for your money. New is new, it is really nice when you can just call someone up and get them to make things right.
> 
> I have no experience with the path you are considering, and it sounds like nobody else does either. Good luck whichever way you go, and if you do import please document the experience here. I know I'm curious and if it works out, it might be an option for others.


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## ErichKeane (Jul 14, 2020)

AndySomogyi said:


> I think if your interests / hobbies are vintage machinery (and that’s freakin fantastic), AND you have a truck, AND you have a forklift, AND you have a lot of time AND you’re pretty well-off financially, then vintage lathes are a great choice for you.
> 
> If however, your business is engineering, designing and fabricating prototype and custom *automotive* performance parts, then a lathe is just a tool, and one that works with the minimal amount of fuss is the best choice.


Yep, I definitely understand that, but it is a great way to get a fantastic machine on a paupers budget. Unfortunately, importing cheap from China is REALLY high risk.  

I know a guy that does importing from China and says you have to go to the factory and inspect over there (not lathes, solar panels), because if you leave it to them you get terrible consistency.  Their 'inspectors' pencil whip like crazy, and even if you have them 'inspect' just your machine, chances are it isn't the machine they'll send you.  He said even independent inspectors get bribed quickly enough that you can't count on them.

The biggest problem is even if they have a 'guarantee' or warranty, you actually have to pay both directions of shipping.  That lathe will cost you ~500 to ship on a boat (plus customs, drop shipping in the US, etc, you're likely ~8-900 in delivery alone!), and if you need to warranty it you have to ship it back (both ways!).

Companies that import stuff from China end up having enough quantity that it makes sense to pay an American to watch operations and inspect over there, otherwise manufacturing quality goes way down.

If you're looking for some risk for a cheaper price, you might consider checking out a Taiwanese company and doing the same thing.  They tend to have higher quality, at only a slightly elevated price.


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## ericc (Jul 15, 2020)

Oh man, what a lot of convincing opinions on both sides!  Really makes one think.

I just have a little to contribute.  I know a fellow down in Santa Cruz who imported a Chinese power hammer.  He had to go through a lot, and many times it seemed that the power hammer would slip out of his grasp.  He eventually got it, and I asked him about the experience.  He said it wasn 't all that great.  He saved a lot of money, but not as much as he first thought.  Also, it turned out that many of his hassles were once the hammer arrived in the US.  It took a while to get it out of customs.  The ordeal took much more than 30 days.

On the other hand, I received a free old US made power hammer.  It was beat up hard.  The ram guides are worn so badly it forges parallelograms.  I only like to run it when the weather is damp, but the ground faults in the century old motor keep tripping the GFI.  I know there's little chance of getting shocked, as long as I am not touching my forge and the bar at the same time.  Although it is a beautiful piece of old iron, I rarely turn it on.  Gets lots of ooohs and aahs from the visitors, though.


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## StevSmar (Jul 15, 2020)

I was considering a Chinese lathe, the tariffs really annoyed me especially since I live in Canada and the majority of lathes were first imported to the US... so I looked at importing a lathe directly from China.

Spare parts and needing to have it certified electrically scared me off doing that.

One advantage of the tariff was that it made the jump to a Taiwanese lathe less dramatic. Now that its here, I've forgotten about the pain of the jump.


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 15, 2020)

The cool thing that the customs broker I've been working with found out for me, is that the machine I'm looking at is small enough that it doesn't fall under the tariffs, and I don't have to pay the stupid 25% regressive tax. 

Still not sure, but I just got this shell mill in the mail today, that I ordered from Alibaba for $40. took it into the instrumentation shop at work, and checked it out. 

The thing had under a micron runout (about 40 millionths for you imperial types). 

Yes, under a micron runout for a $40 mill. Also was dead exact dimensionally accurate. 

Every machining related tool that I got from China recently has been freaking phenomenal, and been extremely pleased with the value and quality. 

Still mulling it over, but the Alibaba quality assurance guarantee is really leaning me towards buying it. And the fact that the company has been in business for 20 years, they have a lot of sales, and the sales person I've been talking with was very helpful, accommodating, and seems really eager for me to recommend them after I get it. 





StevSmar said:


> I was considering a Chinese lathe, the tariffs really annoyed me especially since I live in Canada and the majority of lathes were first imported to the US... so I looked at importing a lathe directly from China.
> 
> Spare parts and needing to have it certified electrically scared me off doing that.
> 
> One advantage of the tariff was that it made the jump to a Taiwanese lathe less dramatic. Now that its here, I've forgotten about the pain of the jump.


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## WobblyHand (Jul 15, 2020)

Mmm, maybe you should check with someone who has no dog in the hunt.  Your broker, (in my humble opinion) isn't that person.  

I had to pay tariffs on a 7x16 mini-lathe last December.  It looks like you are buying something bigger than that for about $3K.  Did the tariffs for lathes go away?  I think the HS Codes for horizontal lathes are 84581100 and 84581900 for NC and non-NC machines respectively.  I presume China is no longer a most favored nation, so the higher rate would apply. https://dataweb.usitc.gov/tariff/database/details/84581900
Not sure if that is the correct place to look, but I was able to find the site within a few minutes of searching.

I hope you can get what you are looking for, but trying to dodge tariffs just isn't going to work out well for you.  Good luck.


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 15, 2020)

The customs broker who I'm working with found out that manual, non-CNC lathes under 1.5 hp are except from the 25% tariff. The standard import duty still applies, but he says because it falls into this category, it's except from the punitive tariffs. And because it's under $2500, you don't need to get a bond. 



WobblyHand said:


> Mmm, maybe you should check with someone who has no dog in the hunt.  Your broker, (in my humble opinion) isn't that person.
> 
> I had to pay tariffs on a 7x16 mini-lathe last December.  It looks like you are buying something bigger than that for about $3K.  Did the tariffs for lathes go away?  I think the HS Codes for horizontal lathes are 84581100 and 84581900 for NC and non-NC machines respectively.  I presume China is no longer a most favored nation, so the higher rate would apply. https://dataweb.usitc.gov/tariff/database/details/84581900
> Not sure if that is the correct place to look, but I was able to find the site within a few minutes of searching.
> ...


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## WobblyHand (Jul 15, 2020)

Maybe the rules changed in the past 7 months?  My manual non-NC lathe is less than 1.5 hp and I had to pay the tariff in December.  It stung. Could have gotten some more stuff!

My comment still holds - your broker is not a disinterested party.  Get an alternate way to confirm his statement.  You don't want to have to pay "ransom" tariffs, especially if you hadn't budgeted for it.


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 18, 2020)

I've decided against importing one. After listing every cost involved with both a Precision Matthews and importing directly, there's only about $500 difference, and MUCH longer time, like 3 months at least. 

So, I don't know what to do now. 

Maybe I'll shell out the money for a PM and try to come up with an electronic lead screw design that monitors the spindle and screw angles and gives you a light where you can re-engage the half nut. 

They also have the same lathe from toolots.com (re-branded as a Bolton) for same prices as I can import one, I don't know, maybe that route???

Still think this is pretty crazy that you can't get a metric lead screw lathe, considering ALL CARS have been ALL METRIC since the 1990's.


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## matthewsx (Jul 18, 2020)

AndySomogyi said:


> I've decided against importing one. After listing every cost involved with both a Precision Matthews and importing directly, there's only about $500 difference, and MUCH longer time, like 3 months at least.
> 
> So, I don't know what to do now.
> 
> ...



I think you're making the right decision to let someone else deal with the import hassles, there's just too many unknowns going down that path to try and save a few hundred bucks.

Bolton doesn't have a good reputation, if it were me I'd drop the extra $500 if buying new to get the support of forum sponsor PM. That said, I'm going to look at a Bolton this afternoon....

You can definitely retrofit an ELS, or even convert to CNC once you have the machine, but if buying new you're unlikely to regret going with the option for less hassle.

John


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## savarin (Jul 18, 2020)

could you purchase metric square allthread and make a new lead screw?
The half nuts could be formed onto the lead screw using hot delrin
Making new metric dials is easy.
If it needs a keyway running the full length then thats a different story.
Although not in the size or category you need I converted my cross slide to metric M10x1 with 100 division dials and a vernier for ease of use for me.
Not the sort of work one wants to do on a new machine but may be the way to go.
I just cant believe there are no metric lathes available in the last holdout to imperial standards.


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## AndySomogyi (Jul 20, 2020)

If get annoyed enough with the half nut, might have to convert the lead screw, but with a DRO, it's less of an issue. 

For larger, enterprise CNC machines, it's all metric everywhere, even US. And manual tools are 100% metric literally everywhere else except US. 

In my case, I make custom car parts, and cars I work on are either European or Japanese. But even American cars have been 100% metric since the early 90's. So, I can't believe that I'm the only car guy that wants to make parts. 



savarin said:


> could you purchase metric square allthread and make a new lead screw?
> The half nuts could be formed onto the lead screw using hot delrin
> Making new metric dials is easy.
> If it needs a keyway running the full length then thats a different story.
> ...


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