# 1930-40's south bend trying to find source of squeak



## Metal (Aug 2, 2017)

South bend, not sure what model, but it has the power feed with the lever on top which I believe puts it pre-WWII.  It is the model near the top of this manual: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/3767.pdf

Here's the problem, when running the spindle, there's a squeaking/rubbing sound that I can't seem to locate.

oiled throughly
removed rear upper bushing housing, ran spindle, still squeaks
Same with the front
Disengaged the jaws with the low gear pin thing, still squeaks.
Found a screw labeled oil in the middle pulley caked in grime, cleared that and filled it with oil, still squeaks.

it "sounds" to me like it is coming from the front section of the spindle, my current theory is it is the parts in front or behind the bushings rubbing on the bushing housing (eg, the forwards/backwards slack is a little too tight) so i'm going to take out the spindle and wire brush/oil that area tonight.

Now here's the question: anything else you can think of that it could be?  Where to I make the adjustment to loosen that axis up a scoonch?


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## RandyM (Aug 2, 2017)

Be careful, noises may not be coming from where you are guessing. My first guess is that if you are looking for a squeak, that it is a belt noise.


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## dlane (Aug 2, 2017)

What kind of SB is it, could be the motor v belt , a little sope will tell you
There is a important procedure for removing SB10L spindle so you don't harm the bearings


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## Metal (Aug 2, 2017)

RandyM said:


> Be careful, noises may not be coming from where you are guessing. My first guess is that if you are looking for a squeak, that it is a belt noise.


it is not belt noise if I move the spindle by hand and it squeaks with the belt removed


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## tq60 (Aug 2, 2017)

Change speeds by various methods and listen for change or not in frequency.

Next get a spray bottle and place a 10 yo 1 solvent oil mix then spray while running into anyplace something is moving and listen for change.

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## Brain Coral (Aug 9, 2017)

Hi Randy,

If you were to post the serial number, then we might be able to see a parts list to better able to come up with some ideas for you. Are there removable bearing caps on your lathe, and, if so, are there brass shims between the halves? Just the edge of a brass shim touching the spindle could cause a squeak.

Brian


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## Metal (Aug 17, 2017)

I managed to figure it out, it appears to be a tiny amount of play in the vertical direction in the spindle, but if I tighten it down any more it gets pretty "sticky" so I'm going to have to play around with the shimming it seems


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## Alittlerusty (Aug 17, 2017)

Both my 9" and 16" south bends required additional shimming when I got them, previous owners had them to tight  and they generated heat at the bearings  fairly quickly when using them. Easy to recognize by just holding your hand on the bearing caps after running them for 15mins or so.


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## Technical Ted (Aug 17, 2017)

Check out page 15 in this South Bend document "Keep your lathe in Trim". There are three other SB docs in this set... H-1 (Keep your Lathe Clean), H-2 (Oiling the SB Lathe) and H-3 (Installing and Leveling your SB Lathe). You can find them by Googling or if you have any trouble finding them let me know and I'll try to post them here.

Ted


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## Metal (Aug 18, 2017)

Thanks guys, I'm going to try and hit it this Sunday if I can, I need to adjust the belting as it seems to want to wander forwards anyway.

once tightened and "sticky" I was able to get a pretty good surface finish on aluminium so I think that was the source of my problems.  I've also ordered a cheapie quick change tool post to see if I like it more than the current tool holder that uses shims.


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## Metal (Sep 8, 2017)

I got this taken care of, but a new issue has raised.

now that ive been using it, and gotten the tailstock and such dialed in, I'm seeing an issue with power/something binding.

Specifically, with the live center pressed into the stock and the power feed engaged, there doesn't seem to be much power left over for cutting.  turning the spindle by hand, I think its still rougher than I think it should be, with the center pushing on the spindle especially.
I'm going to replace the bearings on the intermediate pulley stage since saving energy there would translate to a lot more down the line and its easy, to note that the belt is tensioned by the weight of the motor, since I dont have any of the adjustment parts, so that might be a bit tight.
I've cleaned and oiled the spindle parts and ran it for a bit, is there anything else you can think of?


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## Technical Ted (Sep 8, 2017)

If you stated it in an earlier post, I missed it... what HP is your motor?

Ted


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## Glenn Brooks (Sep 8, 2017)

On my Dalton 7x48, circa 1919, if I apply to much live center pressure into the work with the  tailstock, the work loads up the headstock bearing to much and makes it difficult for the motor to spin the spindle.  The split brass bearings in the headstock get compressed and lock up. Same sort of thing happens if I tighten the bearing caps to much.  

  I found my bearings were worn slightly oval shaped  (after 95 years use), so reshimmed  them and scraped them  concentric to support the spindle better.  Used dykum blue to see the high points - which were generally on the 3 and 9 o'clock positions on the bearings. Basically the edges of the brass, where the bearing was split into two pieces, were flared out and into the spindle.  Tightening the bearing caps to control vertical spindle movement, caused the brasses to deformed even more into the spindle, limiting movement. 

I assume your SB could be acting the same way, if it has split bearings?

Glenn


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## Metal (Sep 8, 2017)

@Ted, I assume it is 1hp, it runs on 110 and the motor has no markings I can see, it could be dying tbh if I do jam/overload the spindle it just stops, the belts don't slip at all.

Yeah it has the split bushings, scraping is probably out of my skillset but i'll take a look, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the way it is setup (the motor hangs by its belt via the hinge which loads the belt to the spindle) is wearing the bearing oddly

Question: without the drive belt or power feed on, if you give the jaws a little turn by hand, does it continue to turn a little with its inertia or does it immediately stop?


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## Technical Ted (Sep 8, 2017)

It doesn't seem to me a 1HP motor should stall quite that easily. My lathe was made in 1935 but a little larger than yours at 15"x36" between centers. I put a new 1-1/2 HP motor on that and if I push it too hard the flat belt will slip before the motor stalls. 

My headstock/spindle has a fiber washer for lateral take up. I find that this seems to swell up at times, mostly in the summer. Could humidity be affecting it like woodwork swells up in the summer? I don't know with my lathe, but I always have to loosen it up in the summer and tighten it back up in the winter. Maybe just a coincidence with my setup, I don't know, but it seems to work. 

Normally, without the flat drive belt  NOT tensioned (released like I'm going to change speeds), my spindle will turn very nice and easy and continue spinning after I give it a twist by hand. Nice and free as you would want it. If this fiber washer gets too tight, that's how I can tell... it will start binding up and turn hard when I'm changing speeds or aligning (indicating) something in since I always disengage the flat bell when doing this. 

Good luck,
Ted


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## Metal (Sep 8, 2017)

Good to know, I don't think its humidity since I have a dehumidifier running down there 24/7
I'll take a look, I dont remember a washer like that and when I got it the felt wipers were totally decomposed so It is probably missing entirely and then tightened too far

I'm seeing thrust bearings on ebay being used for the same thing, do newer lathes use those or is it an "upgrade" ?


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## Technical Ted (Sep 8, 2017)

Just to make this more clear, the fiber washer I'm referring to is just inside the locking collar that is being adjusted in this picture. It's between the locking collar and the rear main spindle bearing. I doubt that this would decompose and if it did the spindle would have crazy end play (like 1/4")! I don't know if your lathe is the same, but if it's a similar vintage to mine it might be. I've never owned a 9" South Bend so I have no experience. 

Some guys have replaced this fiber washer with a needle thrust bearing. There is a document describing this process on the Yahoo South Bend Lathe group. I can post it here if someone is interested.

YMMV,
Ted


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## dlane (Sep 8, 2017)

I did the roller bearing mod on my SB10L and have the procedure in Ibooks but can't figure out how to post it here. Pm me your email and I can send it to you, but the part #s won't be rite for SB 9 I think


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## bobl (Sep 9, 2017)

Metal said:


> South bend, not sure what model, but it has the power feed with the lever on top which I believe puts it pre-WWII.  It is the model near the top of this manual: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/3767.pdf
> 
> Here's the problem, when running the spindle, there's a squeaking/rubbing sound that I can't seem to locate.
> 
> ...



If you have a squeaky belt try spray with WD40 if it stops you can use a belt dressing hope this helps 


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## Metal (Sep 10, 2017)

Technical Ted said:


> Just to make this more clear, the fiber washer I'm referring to is just inside the locking collar that is being adjusted in this picture. It's between the locking collar and the rear main spindle bearing. I doubt that this would decompose and if it did the spindle would have crazy end play (like 1/4")! I don't know if your lathe is the same, but if it's a similar vintage to mine it might be. I've never owned a 9" South Bend so I have no experience.
> 
> Some guys have replaced this fiber washer with a needle thrust bearing. There is a document describing this process on the Yahoo South Bend Lathe group. I can post it here if someone is interested.
> 
> ...



Yep thats where it looked like it was from google, there's no spacer between that collar and the main bearing housing, I guess i'll have to take apart the spindle and see what kind of hokey "fix" the previous owner(s?) did to it.


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## Technical Ted (Sep 10, 2017)

Here's that doc that is on Yahoo's South Bend Lathe site. Again, I'm not sure if this applies to your model/size of lathe.... maybe those on this list that know your model can chime in on this. 

Good luck,
Ted


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## dlane (Sep 10, 2017)

dlane said:


> What kind of SB is it,


What is it


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## Metal (Sep 13, 2017)

Technical Ted said:


> Here's that doc that is on Yahoo's South Bend Lathe site. Again, I'm not sure if this applies to your model/size of lathe.... maybe those on this list that know your model can chime in on this.
> 
> Good luck,
> Ted



Yeah I checked it and there was certainly nothing between the collar and collar of the split brass bushing.
I ordered a bearing to take care of it


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## dlane (Sep 13, 2017)

Wondering, if you don't know what lathe you have how did you order the correct bearing for it ?


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## Metal (Sep 13, 2017)

By measuring where the bearing goes and then ordering that bearing?


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## menace (Oct 11, 2017)

My sb 9 had a similar sqeek that drove me nuts! Turned to be in the cone pulley screw was too tight! After cleaning, I filled this area with teflon grease and lightly tightening screw, my problem solved!
On a different machine it squeaked  and spindle split bearings would get hot and stop turning! They would lose all oil, I put o/w/5  synthetic oil in bearings and haven't had it stop anymore! Put teflon grease in cone head also. As for sqeek it was the zipper clip on belt every time it went around, learned to live it . This machine sit along time without use and spins easily still with syn oil. My 2 cents.


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