# Logan 11 Restoration Questionsquestions



## 682bear (Nov 30, 2016)

I bought this Powermatic Logan over 20 years ago... its been sitting in my basement unused since then. It is well used (worn) and has seen a bit of abuse also. 




I have decided to attempt a restoration on it... but there are several issues that I will have to work out...

First, is this the original tailstock? I have not seen one like this in any of the pictures I have looked at...




Second, one of the 2 idler gears on the lead screw reverse lever is badly worn, is there a source for these gears?






Next, there are several gears the have a lot of looseness or play... I am assuming that I will have to install or replace bushings to tighten them up... do most of the gears ride on bushings already?

Finally, there is a good bit of wear on the front way just to the right of the chuck... short of having the ways ground, I'm not sure what else can be done to repair the ways.

The lathe came with a 3 jaw chuck, 4 jaw chuck, steady and following rests, a collet closer, and a box full of other assorted parts that I will have to figure out.




I am sure that if I tackle this restoration, I will have a lot more questions...

Thanks -Bear


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## wa5cab (Nov 30, 2016)

Bear,

I'm not particularly familiar with the machine but that isn't the standard tailstock.  However, I think that it looks like the optional AC-375 shown in the 1953 Logan catalog.

We don't have an 11" parts manual but the 10" manual does show oilite bushings in the tumbler (idler) gears.

I'll have to let someone else comment on the bed.


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## CluelessNewB (Nov 30, 2016)

First get a manual.   You can probably get one from from Scott Logan.   They probably have the gear also but you may be able to find a used one for less on Ebay.  What is the model number?

http://www.lathe.com/

This Powermatic catalog from 1980 shows a similar tailstock (page 24):  
http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=16438

This Logan catalog from 1963 shows a older design for the lever tailstock (page 18): 
http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2093/16438.pdf

This parts manual for the model 1935-2 might be close to what you have although yours is newer, but it might be enough to get you started: 
http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2093/13926.pdf


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## 682bear (Nov 30, 2016)

It is a model 1957T 11 x 55...

-Bear


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## Chuck K (Dec 2, 2016)

The lever tailstock is a very nice option.  if I were you I think I would lube everything real well and make a few chips with it before tearing it down. I find it easier to assess the machine that way....just my opinion.  It looks like it could be a nice machine.

I just might have one of those tumbler gears from an 11" lathe.


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## eeler1 (Dec 2, 2016)

682bear said:


> It is a model 1957T 11 x 55...
> 
> -Bear




With the racing stripe green.  Powermatic perhaps?


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## 682bear (Dec 3, 2016)

Chuck, if you have a spare gear, let me know... I'm interested. 

I also discovered that the headstock bearing closest to the chuck is locked up... the spindle was spinning in the bearing. I removed the bearing and soaked it in oil. It is turning now... but is still a little rough. The back gears have been removed, but they were in the box of parts and appear to be complete.

-Bear


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## 682bear (Dec 3, 2016)

Eeler,  yes, its a Powermatic.

-Bear


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## Chuck K (Dec 3, 2016)

682bear said:


> Chuck, if you have a spare gear, let me know... I'm interested.
> 
> I also discovered that the headstock bearing closest to the chuck is locked up... the spindle was spinning in the bearing. I removed the bearing and soaked it in oil. It is turning now... but is still a little rough. The back gears have been removed, but they were in the box of parts and appear to be complete.
> 
> -Bear


That doesn't sound good.  I've never seen one spin a bearing.  How does the spindle look?


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## wa5cab (Dec 3, 2016)

I wouldn't risk trying to use the old bearing.


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## 682bear (Dec 3, 2016)

The spindle looks fine... and I agree, the old bearing is not gonna be reused. Its too rough.

-Bear


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## Chuck K (Dec 3, 2016)

I looked through my gears.  The only one I have that I think would fit that lathe has a chip out of two of the teeth.  You really have to wonder how that happens.  The only scenario that I can think of is shifting the tumbler while it's running.  I've never tried that.....


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## 682bear (Dec 3, 2016)

Are the teeth just chipped on the edges? If so, I may still be able to use it with some 'selective' blending...

I have seen guys shift lathe gears while running at work... I would bet they would never do that on their own machines.


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## Chuck K (Dec 3, 2016)

I should have taken a pic.  The chips are at the edge.  I'll get you a pic tomorrow.


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## 682bear (Dec 3, 2016)

Ok, thanks! I appreciate it...

Is that spindle bearing a standard bearing or is there something special about it? The Logan website lists quite a few bearings by part number, but there is no description of any of them...


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## Chuck K (Dec 3, 2016)

Yes.....it's special.  I meant to ask you if the original bearing was a New Departure or a bearing the previous owner installed.  I'm kind of surprised that it was spinning on the spindle.  That bearing should be a press fit.


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## 682bear (Dec 3, 2016)

The only markings that I can see on it is the stamping '9L10'... other than that, I don't know anything about it... a google search on 9L10 didn't really come up with anything useful...

It was tight on the spindle, but wasn't turning... I could spin the spindle by useing the chuck for leverage, but it looked like the spindle was slipping in the bearing race. I could be wrong...

When I got the spindle out, I looked at it closely, and it didn't show any signs of wear or galling, so the bearing may have been turning. I could not turn it with my hand until I soaked it in oil for a while.

It fits on the spindle and in the headstock bore like it belongs there, so I feel like it is the original bearing.


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## Chuck K (Dec 3, 2016)

I don't know a lot about bearings but I do know that the spindle bearings  (at least the front one) are the heart of your lathe.  There's been a lot of discussion about replacement bearings for the logans.  Some say that any bearing made today will be as good as the ones available back when your machine was produced.  Others say that the original New Departure zero clearance bearings were a cut above.  l know you can cross reference the numbers at a bearing house and get one for about 30 bucks.  I personally wouldn't want to run that bearing.  I would expect chatter.  I'd be interested to hear from someone who runs the cheaper bearing just to find out how it performs .


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## 682bear (Dec 3, 2016)

I may have to try to contact Logan and ask them... but I will do some more looking, maybe if I get the bearing dimensions, I can find a replacement.

Chuck, thanks for all your help.


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## Chuck K (Dec 4, 2016)

I saved this gear because in a pinch I could braze  and file it and have something that works.  If you want it you can have it for the cost of shipping. 





682bear said:


> Are the teeth just chipped on the edges? If so, I may still be able to use it with some 'selective' blending...
> 
> I have seen guys shift lathe gears while running at work... I would bet they would never do that on their own machines.


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## eeler1 (Dec 4, 2016)

Powermatic may have used a different bearing than the original Logan would have.   My understanding is that they bought the name and inventory,  and then cheapened production with some parts, more so over time, although many of the basic machine components were still original quality.  I have a powermatic Burke mill rite, which is kinda the same situation.

That said, Logan offers support and some parts even for the powermatic models.  I'd check there first, get the bearing spec'd and priced, then decide.  Most logans have a pre-load on the front bearings, as I understand it, that makes substitutions difficult.  Powermatic versions might be different.


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## 682bear (Dec 4, 2016)

Thanks, Chuck, I'll take it... you can send me an e-mail at bear9757@bellsouth.net and let me know where to send payment to.

-Bear


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## Chuck K (Dec 5, 2016)

682bear said:


> Thanks, Chuck, I'll take it... you can send me an e-mail at bear9757@bellsouth.net and let me know where to send payment to.
> 
> -Bear


OK....this is a 30 tooth gear.  OD is 1.993.  ID is 0.750 with a bushing bringing it down to 0.625.  Thickness is 0.568.  I just want to make sure it's the right gear before I ship it to you.


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## 682bear (Dec 5, 2016)

No, thats not the right gear... I need a 34 tooth... 

Oh, well... I appreciate it anyway...

I thought I had put that it was a 34 tooth in my original post, now I realize that I didn't... my fault.

Thanks, anyway..

-Bear


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## Nogoingback (Dec 5, 2016)

682bear said:


> I may have to try to contact Logan and ask them... but I will do some more looking, maybe if I get the bearing dimensions, I can find a replacement.
> 
> Chuck, thanks for all your help.




I just went through this with a 10" Logan, and bought the bearings from them.  The double row front bearing is special, and as I understand it can't be cross referenced.  The rear bearing
is, I believe nothing special and could be cross referenced at a bearing supply.  I bought both from Logan at around $240.00/pair.  Most of that was the front bearing.


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## Chuck K (Dec 5, 2016)

682bear said:


> No, thats not the right gear... I need a 34 tooth...
> 
> Oh, well... I appreciate it anyway...
> 
> ...


Glad I  checked.  No sense paying postage for a junk gear.


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## 682bear (Dec 6, 2016)

You wouldn't happen to have a 40t or 22t gear that mounts on the gearbox slider handle, would you?

Sorry... just trying a long shot...

I can get all these gears from Logan, but they are kinda pricey...

What would this lathe be worth if I managed to get it operational? I'm not really interested in selling, but I'd rather not spend more on it than it is worth...

-Bear


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## Nogoingback (Dec 6, 2016)

682bear said:


> Ok, thanks! I appreciate it...
> 
> Is that spindle bearing a standard bearing or is there something special about it? The Logan website lists quite a few bearings by part number, but there is no description of any of them...




I have a copy of an old ad for the 10" Powermatic:  it lists the bearings as the Pre-loaded New Departure bearings, so they would be the same type as a Logan bearing.


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## Chuck K (Dec 6, 2016)

682bear said:


> You wouldn't happen to have a 40t or 22t gear that mounts on the gearbox slider handle, would you?
> 
> Sorry... just trying a long shot...
> 
> ...


I might have.  I don't have time to check tonight.   Maybe get a chance tomorrow night .  What part of the country are you located in ?


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## 682bear (Dec 6, 2016)

I'm in Georgia... west of Atlanta


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## Chuck K (Dec 7, 2016)

682bear said:


> You wouldn't happen to have a 40t or 22t gear that mounts on the gearbox slider handle, would you?
> 
> Sorry... just trying a long shot...
> 
> ...


No go on those gears.  If you lived in the Midwest you could be patient and wait for a cheap parts machine to show up on CL.....probably not as likely in GA.


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## 682bear (Dec 8, 2016)

Ok, thanks for all your help...

I figured out why the spindle bearing was so rough... when I got the dried crud off of it, the metal seal (shield?) on the side had a dent in it... it looked like a PO had tried to drive it out with a punch... I carefully popped that cover off, now it spins smoothly and easily.

But... I can't get the cover back on, so now I have a bearing with an open side...

It is a New Departure bearing... under the crud, I found NDH stamped on it.


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## Chuck K (Dec 8, 2016)

I know others will disagree with me but I always pop the shields off the bearings so I can clean them thoroughly.  I soak them in pine-sol and then rinse the gunk out with hot water followed by a bath in wd40.  blow them dry and fill them 1/3 full with Mobil synthetic electric motor grease.  The bearings are covered up when they're installed anyway.  I've never considered it a problem.


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## 682bear (Dec 9, 2016)

I'm thinking that I will use this bearing with the missing cover... and just see if it lasts...

Now... I think I have everything sorted out except the wear on the front way... I got a quote for $2000 to grind the ways... not gonna happen...

So I'm looking for alternatives. Maybe a good bed will pop up on ebay eventually...


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## Chuck K (Dec 9, 2016)

When a lathe gets parted out one of leftover parts is the bed. I have one in my scrap pile right now.  I didn't even check it out.  It's from a 10" change gear machine so it would need machining to make it work on a quick change machine.  They're not in big demand.  You might find one if you're patient.


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## Happycamper (Dec 24, 2016)

I rebuilt an 11" Powermatic. I took the old bearings to a local bearing supplier and they matched them up by the numbers on them. They don't make the New Departure bearings any longer. The bearings I purchased have worked for two years now with no problems. All the bushings are standard size oilite bushings and I bought those at the bearing supplier also. I replaced the bushings in the back gear and on the side drive gears. The bushings inside the cone are the only ones I bought from Logan as I couldn't find them elsewhere. I still want to take the QC gear box apart and replace those bushings.


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## wa5cab (Dec 24, 2016)

camper,

You are free to buy whatever from whomever.  But if everyone behaves like that, sooner rather than later you-all won't be able to buy the otherwise impossible to locate parts because Logan won't be selling them anymore.


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## Happycamper (Dec 24, 2016)

Maybe so, but if you're on a limited budget, you have to make do with what you can afford.


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## GarageGuy (Dec 24, 2016)

The spindle bearing on my Logan 820 was "cogging" or rough when I got it.  I soaked it in brake cleaner, rinsed in kerosene, and blew out with compressed air probably 8 times over a two week period.  Your bearing is probably fine (as mine was), just filled with ancient hardened grease.  Give it a good patient cleaning, and re-pack with modern grease and see how it feels.  I suspect it will be just fine.

You can probably fix about 80% of your problems with a thorough cleaning and lube job.  There will be some chipped gear teeth, and even some missing gear teeth.  Chipped teeth are often usable, and then you watch eBay for a good replacement when it comes along.  Logan/Powrmatic were very popular machines, and used parts are easier to find than many other brands.

I have made replacement gears for Logans before.  Yours look like simple 16dp spur gears.  You can sometimes get them new from Boston Gear, or if you're not in a hurry and will spring for the material (we used cast iron), I'm sure we could help you.   I like seeing the older machines restored and used again.

GG


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## Nogoingback (Dec 25, 2016)

If you haven't seen the youtube videos from Tubalcain, he has one on rebuilding a Logan gearbox that talks about specifying gears.  Might be helpful in buying a gear from
Boston Gear.

MACHINE SHOP TIPS #130 Repairing a Logan Lathe Gear Box PART 1


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