# Who is the sadist who designed the oil wicks for South Bend?



## MontanaLon (May 23, 2019)

Got the book and wicks to refurb the lathe. I have to say the book is well put together and mostly clear on what needs to happen and when. I get maybe an hour at night after the family goes to bed to tinker on it. Lately, I have spent the quite a bit of time on the apron. Every problem I have encountered has been as a result of a previous owner having tinkered with a hammer. Biggest of those was getting the taper pin out of the shaft that holds the pinion gear to run the carriage along the bed in the apron. The narrow end was peened larger than the hole so I had to file it down. I tried it all, heat, prayer, animal sacrifice, burning incense. All failed. Ended up having to drill it out. Amazed that nothing broke. 

So getting that out allowed me to reinstall all of the parts and replace the wicks along the way. I have to say I hope whoever installed the wicks at the factory was paid well. Because that was a pain in the butt. 

I found with the last gear to go back, the crossfeed drive, that doing it backwards from the book worked much better. Being that it was the last gear I was curious to know whether running all of them backwards wouldn't be easier. Not curious to take the whole thing apart and try, I'm curious, not masochistic. 

Now I have to think seriously about moving the bed into the basement. I actually think I can do it by myself if I go through the window. There is only a 4 foot drop that way. Will attach the bed to a 2x10, pull it in with a pulley system and lower it to the floor and it will be right where I plan to set it. Of course, easier said than done.


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## martik777 (May 23, 2019)

It is not necessary to disassemble every part to refurb. Usually a good flushing out with solvent is sufficient, especially the QCGB. 

I found it easy to move the bed downstairs using a dolly with the bed in a vertical position.


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## woodtickgreg (May 23, 2019)

I moved my bed into the basement on a dolly, wasn't that bad. Took it down the stairs by myself. I just strapped it securely to the dolly. I have moved it 3 times this way. The cast iron base is not as easy to move, that takes a couple guys and a dolly.


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## MontanaLon (May 23, 2019)

martik777 said:


> It is not necessary to disassemble every part to refurb. Usually a good flushing out with solvent is sufficient, especially the QCGB.
> 
> I found it easy to move the bed downstairs using a dolly with the bed in a vertical position.


The wicks are hardened with oxidized oil. I could almost use them as square nails.


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## lordbeezer (May 23, 2019)

There's a lot of wicks.in places that makes you say how they do that.time and patience for me.bet factory workers could do in seconds..course theye didn't have to dig out old stuck felts..


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## derf (May 23, 2019)

I found that in some locations it was easier to run a needle and thread through the wick and pull it through. I'll bet the wicks were installed by women at the factory...they have more patience and are nimble fingered.


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## lordbeezer (May 23, 2019)

Forgot to say machines were designed back then to last...


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## MontanaLon (May 23, 2019)

martik777 said:


> It is not necessary to disassemble every part to refurb. Usually a good flushing out with solvent is sufficient, especially the QCGB.
> 
> I found it easy to move the bed downstairs using a dolly with the bed in a vertical position.


I may delay the QCGB tear down. I hosed it out with solvent and it is very clean. Problem is, the Christmas tree gear stack is supposed to have a taper pin through the nut. I looked, there is no taper pin. Polished it up and hit it with cold blue and there is no outline of a pin on any of the 6 sides. But it will not move with just the wrench so the pin may be hiding very well. 

Then the clutch shaft has a staked in pin and it is giving me trouble even moving. They staked the snot out of it on both ends. I may have to get after it with an engraving cutter in the dremel to be able to move it out. But the wicks are hard as nails so I will have to keep the oil flowing some other way. That makes me a bit nervous. It was designed to get the oil through the wicks so slopping it on the outside of the gears may not adequately lubricate them.


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## martik777 (May 23, 2019)

Those wicks can be rejuvenated, soak and toss about in solvent, they will come out quite serviceable.  The wicks in the QCGB can be removed with tweezers with the shafts in place. 

I don't trust the apron wick system so I remove the saddle every few months and lube it manually.


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## Glenn Brooks (May 25, 2019)

I had a couple of taper pins in an old big iron Standard Modern lathe that we’re plain invisible on a polished shaft. Didn’t even know they were there, until I couldn’t get the shaft and the sleeve part. As I remember, I of so gently probed around the shaft with a pin punch and small hammer until I found a pin and ding, saw a faint hole outline emerge. After that  it came right out.


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## MontanaLon (May 25, 2019)

Still can't find a pin but the gears are keyed to the shaft so taking it apart to clean it would be purely aesthetic. 

The clutch shaft and gears however do spin on the shaft so I pulled it out and cleaned it well. One end of the shaft the oil gallery screw won't come out so it will be staying. Unless I found out the through hole doesn't actually go through. Anyone know if it does or not?


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## Janderso (May 25, 2019)

There are wicks all over those lathes. Without them, the oil would run through.
The apron on my 13” single was the first time I had seen or dealt with wicks and taper pins.
I had no trouble with the pins.
The wick routing was a bit tricky!
I thought at the time, there has to be a better way, what did Monarch do?


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## SLK001 (May 26, 2019)

MontanaLon said:


> Still can't find a pin but the gears are keyed to the shaft so taking it apart to clean it would be purely aesthetic.
> 
> The clutch shaft and gears however do spin on the shaft so I pulled it out and cleaned it well. One end of the shaft the oil gallery screw won't come out so it will be staying. Unless I found out the through hole doesn't actually go through. Anyone know if it does or not?



All these questions, but you still haven't bothered to tell us what lathe model you are talking about.  Moving a 9" lathe can be done by an average man by himself.  Moving a Heavy 10" lathe can be done by a strong man by himself.  Moving a 13" lathe requires two men.  Moving a 16" lathe requires a whole squad of men.  Some of these lathes beds can be moved vertically with a dolly, but the heavier ones I wouldn't even consider moving like that.  It becomes the old inverted pendulum problem with about a half a ton of cast iron to control.  Definitely not for the faint of heart. 

 As for the pins, they are there - find them.


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## MontanaLon (May 27, 2019)

SLK001 said:


> All these questions, but you still haven't bothered to tell us what lathe model you are talking about.  Moving a 9" lathe can be done by an average man by himself.  Moving a Heavy 10" lathe can be done by a strong man by himself.  Moving a 13" lathe requires two men.  Moving a 16" lathe requires a whole squad of men.  Some of these lathes beds can be moved vertically with a dolly, but the heavier ones I wouldn't even consider moving like that.  It becomes the old inverted pendulum problem with about a half a ton of cast iron to control.  Definitely not for the faint of heart.
> 
> As for the pins, they are there - find them.


It is a 1940 10" L. 

And I figured out the pin on the Christmas tree. There wasn't one. I don't know if they built it on a Monday or if it wasn't supposed to have one, but it for sure isn't there and never was. No hole in the shaft where there may have been one and the nut was replaced at some point. It was just very tight and needed a little extra oomph to bust it loose.

The whole lathe is a bit odd. It has features of a 9" and features of the larger lathes mixed together. The spindle wicks are neither the short 1.25" nor the long 2.25". They measure 1-5/8"ish. The tail stock is built like the 9" without the lubrication wicks of the 10"on the base. 

I still need to get a serpentine belt for it. I went to the local auto store and told the guy at the counter I needed a serpentine belt, he asked what make, model and year of car. Told him it wasn't for a car, it needed to be an inch wide and 58" long. A little narrower would be fine but wider was no good. Then I showed him the leather belt. 

He looked at me like I had snakes on my head. He had no idea how to figure out the length of a belt. Since they keep all the belts behind the counter he wouldn't let me paw through them to figure out what was what. I will try the other auto parts place next time.


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## martik777 (May 27, 2019)

http://www.daycoproducts.com/online-catalog-1?part_type=20

A Dayco 5080580  is 58" long and 1.1" wide - 8 ribs
5060575 57.5" long  and .82 wide - 6 ribs

Both on ebay under $10

Could also get a 580K6  59.0" 6 ribs ~ .8" wide
or 6PK580 but none on ebay

When I got mine I just price checked within .5" either way ie: 575, 580 and 585  but some are not in .5" increments ie: 582 = 58.2


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## pdentrem (May 27, 2019)

Funny how parts people cannot remember that the length of the belt is part of the number! Worked parts counter at a GM dealership for 10 years, and belts was the easier items to work with.


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## SLK001 (May 27, 2019)

You have an early, early 10L.  Here's the SB timeline of the tailstock changes:


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## MontanaLon (May 27, 2019)

martik777 said:


> http://www.daycoproducts.com/online-catalog-1?part_type=20
> 
> A Dayco 5080580  is 58" long and 1.1" wide - 8 ribs
> 5060575 57.5" long  and .82 wide - 6 ribs
> ...


Good to know. Probably cheaper than the auto parts places.


pdentrem said:


> Funny how parts people cannot remember that the length of the belt is part of the number! Worked parts counter at a GM dealership for 10 years, and belts was the easier items to work with.


Young kid, place has only been open about 6 months. He probably just mastered the computer lookup. Will likely take him longer to figure out the belt size is part of the stock number.


SLK001 said:


> You have an early, early 10L.  Here's the SB timeline of the tailstock changes:
> View attachment 295407


That is cool. I knew it was kind of an oddball when I bought it. The early 10" lathes were like a mid year model in 1938. The catalog I have seen had an addendum in it that said the 10" were replacing several but not all of the 9" models. I've thought about adding way wipers to the tailstock since I have them in the wick set. Will be a project for the future.


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## Janderso (May 28, 2019)

pdentrem said:


> Funny how parts people cannot remember that the length of the belt is part of the number! Worked parts counter at a GM dealership for 10 years, and belts was the easier items to work with.


Me too, worked a Ford parts counter for 25+ years.
A 6 rib SERP belt would be, JK6-976. =6 rib, 97.6” long.


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## john.k (May 28, 2019)

I went to my local bearing place,with a list of bronze bushes.....I showed the kid on the counter,saying..the part no. is usually the size......kid looked for a while,fiddled with the screen.......then he yells out..".All these numbers are doing my head in",and out the back......manager comes out,after a little tete a tete,he produces a printout of all the sizes ,but converted to metric.....to about 8 places of decimals....anyway,next he goes out the back,comes out with a box with a lot of bushes....says...Here ,give us $20 ,and you can have the lot........we wont be restocking...no more bushes....Did I mention the bearing shop is now half given over to toys and will soon be all toys


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## SLK001 (May 28, 2019)

MontanaLon said:


> I've thought about adding way wipers to the tailstock since I have them in the wick set. Will be a project for the future.



I highly recommend that the wipers be added.


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## derf (May 31, 2019)

I've found the best source for belts is vbeltsupply.com. They carry all kinds of belts. As far as a serpentine belt, I would recommend a "J" width groove, typically automotive belts are "K" width. They have 2 types: a sharp vee, and a flat vee, with the latter designed for flat pulleys.
A J10 would be about the right width, X what ever length you need. The designation would be in your case for a 58" length, 580J10.


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