# Atlas MF mill cleanup



## Dgleavitt (Oct 10, 2017)

Hi,
My name is Andrew, this is my first post here. Sorry if it is in the wrong forum, since it won’t involve scraping.  I was just gifted an Atlas MF Mill,  which I gladly accepted despite its limitations and a few needed parts(expensive but available).  However there are some cosmetic issues with the mill, there is some rust on the table and on the casting. I was wondering what would be the best method to take off this rust. Would you approach the rust on the table and ways  any different then you would approach the rust on the casting?

 And, after I’m done removing the rust from the casting, I would like to paint it. What kind of paint would you use on a machine, an Epoxy paint or enamel or something else? What is your  preferred finish I always like the hammered look.
Thanks for any help you can give.


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## Bob Korves (Oct 10, 2017)

Electrolysis for the rust.  Rustoleum Smoke Gray oil based enamel, brush or spray (my favorite.)

Welcome to Hobby Machinist!


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## 4GSR (Oct 11, 2017)

If you're not into electrolysis like me, Evaporust works too.  Or good old elbow grease and extra fine 320 grit emery cloth on finished metal surfaces and or 80 grit on cast surfaces, and steel wool and a little mineral spirits works too.  Rustoleum Smoke Gray is my choice of color too.


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## westsailpat (Oct 11, 2017)

Hi Dg , for the rust I would ask how deep is it ? If deep I would go with Evaporust or electrolysis , otherwise I would go with a Scotch-Bright pad and some WD-40 . Also Rustoleum has a dark sliver hammer tone . How about some pictures ? Welcome aboard . Also HM has a forum for us Atlas/Craftsman people .
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/forums/atlas-craftsman-aa.86/


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## Bob Korves (Oct 11, 2017)

Evapo-rust is a good option, but might be expensive for enough to submerge the main casting.  I have no personal experience with electrolysis, but it would certainly work and would be cheaper, though you would have to build the setup to do it.  Do not use Evapo-rust without having the entire part submerged or it will leave an ugly line on the metal at the liquid to air interface.


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## Glenn Brooks (Oct 11, 2017)

I usually apply a first coat to the bare metal casting on old machine tools with Ospho - diluted phosphoric acid. This acts as a barrier coat/primer to inhibit oxidation.  Then sometimes apply a one part marine epoxy primer from Interlux.  Very durable stuff.  Then your paint of choice.  

I had the local rustoleum paint guy at the hardware store mix up a medium dark, not to dark, blue-gray tone paint that I like a lot. Really, any color will do - whatever you like looking at the best!

Glenn


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## Groundhog (Oct 11, 2017)

I've posted this elsewhere on this forum but ...

"Rust Release SuperGel" is just like Evapo-rust (better if you believe the ad) except it is a thick gel and can be used on vertical surfaces. No need to submerge large parts. 

I've used it and will attest that it works as advertised. It stays on the vertical sides and doesn't slide off. However, DO NOT let it dry out. It will leave weird stains. So plan on spending an hour or so babysitting your part to keep brushing places that start to dry out.

I ordered mine from https://www.theruststore.com/ , but it is available other places as well.


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## Bob Korves (Oct 11, 2017)

Groundhog said:


> I've posted this elsewhere on this forum but ...
> 
> "Rust Release SuperGel" is just like Evapo-rust (better if you believe the ad) except it is a thick gel and can be used on vertical surfaces. No need to submerge large parts.
> 
> ...


I did not know about that product.  Manufacturer says "no acids".  Interesting...


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## Billh50 (Oct 11, 2017)

I have a 5 gallon pail setup for electrolysis. I like to use it because I just put the part in turn the battery charger on and let it do it's job. Come back later and rust is all gone. Quick rinse and brushing and it's ready to dry and oil up or paint.


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## Dgleavitt (Oct 11, 2017)

Thanks for all the replies! I’d like to try electrolysis but I don’t know where to get the chemicals needed.


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## Dave Paine (Oct 11, 2017)

Dgleavitt said:


> Thanks for all the replies! I’d like to try electrolysis but I don’t know where to get the chemicals needed.



An example how-to article.  Many on the internet.

http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp

Not really "chemical" needed, just Arm & Hammer washing soda aka sodium carbonate.   Just something to add ions to the water so it conducts electricity better than straight water.

I read somewhere that carbon blocks make a good electrode and do not generate the scum which will happen from steel electrodes.  I do not think most folks have a hefty piece of carbon lying around.


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## Dgleavitt (Oct 11, 2017)

Here it is before I moved it. It looks a little better in person. It has the “Wartime Finish” sticker still on it but it is a little dingy and falling off.


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## British Steel (Oct 11, 2017)

Dave Paine said:


> An example how-to article.  Many on the internet.
> 
> http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp
> 
> ...



I lucked upon several graphite blocks in the World's Best Skip, 2" thick  by a foot square, just have to cut some slices for Anodes... Lacking the Temporal Tuits at the moment!

I have been using 3/8" arc gouging electrodes with the copper stripped off* (muriatic acid works well, or ferric chloride which is a lot more expensive) and poke them through holes drilled in 22mm HDPE water overflow pipe with 90-degree bends and tees to form a frame, they are fragile though so you'd need a plastic basket to put the parts in and keep them apart (I use a couple of the folding "stack and store" bins from Ikea etc.) and they're not pure graphite but baked from a paste with a ?clay? binder so if left in the tank they will eventually dissolve! The solution does stay a lot more pleasant though, still froths and bubbles a bit but stays clear and there are none of the barnacles that grow on steel anodes and need wire brushing off - graphite should be pretty much non-consumable so I'm hoping it'll last a few years - it's Expensive if you want enough surface area for large electrolysis tanks and tens of Amps!

Dave H. (the other one)

* Being cheap, I leave an inch or so of copper to solder wires to, saves on clips and clamps! They also work well for DIY anodising on aluminium or titanium... Anodising dyes for aluminium are the difficulty (read "expensive"), but I did discover that Asda's bargain-basement inkjet printer black... er... ink gives a really nice coppery bronze


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## Dave Paine (Oct 11, 2017)

British Steel said:


> I lucked upon several graphite blocks in the World's Best Skip, 2" thick  by a foot square, just have to cut some slices for Anodes... Lacking the Temporal Tuits at the moment!



Wow, you did get lucky.  A very nice score.


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## Dgleavitt (Oct 12, 2017)

Will electrolysis harm anything? paint, the atlas badges and such? First Time restoring a machine so that may be a stupid question. 

With the badges. Can you knock out the rivets, or would you have to drill them out?


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## francist (Oct 13, 2017)

Often one is able to knock the drive screws back out without resorting to drilling. On my MF which I recently put back together, the Change-o-Matic label as well as the pulley speeds label on the door both had drive screws accessible from behind. A small punch knocks them out, you do your cleaning and painting, whatever, and then the drive screws can be reused. Look carefully for the small holes about 1/16" diameter on the back side behind the badge.

Failing that, other methods include:
-sharp chisel under the edge to ease them forward (effective)
-filing a screw slot to try to turn them out, they have a slight spiral on the shank (moderately effective)
-gripping with a plier and twisting them out (rarely works without buggering the label)
-centre punch and drill them out

The badges and labels are soft aluminum as well as soft brass, so whatever cleaning method you use must not attack either of those. I've not personally used electrolysis so can't comment on it here. But be warned, the printed relief is extremely shallow. If you lose the red/black paint there it is very difficult to put it back. I've painted in many labels and tags over the years, but that one was very tough to get it looking even half decent. Best to remove them if you can.

-frank


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## British Steel (Oct 13, 2017)

From my experience electrolysis *will* lift paint, filler etc. if left for long, and it's suitable for iron and steel only, it *will* attack aluminium, brass and bronze, so some disassembly required! Oven cleaner / lye (often recommended for initial cleanup) will also attack non-ferrous metals, particularly aluminium...

The drive screws (that's what they're called, in the UK at least) can be a sod and they're usually hardened (unless they're plain rivets, which are left soft), Frank's suggestions work or if all else fails carefully dremelloid the heads and grip the stumps with pliers (or better, side-cutters) once the plates are off - easy to mark the plates with the dremelloid though 

Dave H. (the other one)


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## Dgleavitt (Oct 16, 2017)

Seems the wife has an unopened box of super washing soda, now I just need to find a tub big enough for the mill table.


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## British Steel (Oct 16, 2017)

Dig a pit big enough for it, line with pond liner or damp-proof membrane (like under concrete floor slabs - not sure what it's called in the US!)

OR... it might not be that big! The Ikea plastic roll-under-the-bed storage bins are pretty useful sizes...

Dave H. (the other one)


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## Rob (Oct 16, 2017)

When I cleaned mine I used oven cleaner and placed it in a old kitty litter box.


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## Dgleavitt (Oct 16, 2017)

I happen to have a litter box, what’s the process with oven cleaner? Just soak it?


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## Rob (Oct 16, 2017)

Spray it on and let it sit for about 1/2 hour as I recall.  Then you just wipe it off.  I used lots of paper towels.


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## Dgleavitt (Oct 16, 2017)

Great, thanks.


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## Dgleavitt (Oct 23, 2017)

just picked up a gallon of smoke gray, looks nice. Should I use a primer first or direct onto the casting?




Bob Korves said:


> Electrolysis for the rust.  Rustoleum Smoke Gray oil based enamel, brush or spray (my favorite.)
> 
> Welcome to Hobby Machinist!


I


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## Dabbler (Oct 23, 2017)

I use a good quality primer when I repaint machines.  It seems to make the top coat last longer and resist chipping.


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## Dabbler (Oct 24, 2017)

On the larger pieces I use a heat gun to denature the paint, then it just scrapes off with a putty knife,  Saves a lot of chemicals - you still need some paint stripper, just a lot less.  When I get started on my tool and cutter grinder i'll post pics of the process...


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## Sblack (Nov 17, 2017)

Mr Pete22 (tubalcain on youtube) did a test with electrolysis compared to just soaking the part in vinegar. I think the results were pretty much the same. But you can confirm by checking out the videos. I think next time I do this I will just buy a couple of gallons of vinegar, which is an acid, and not bother with electricity, anodes, washing soda etc. You might leave it for 2 or 3 days, but so what - you can find other stuff to work on during that time.


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## Bob Korves (Nov 18, 2017)

Sblack said:


> Mr Pete22 (tubalcain on youtube) did a test with electrolysis compared to just soaking the part in vinegar. I think the results were pretty much the same. But you can confirm by checking out the videos. I think next time I do this I will just buy a couple of gallons of vinegar, which is an acid, and not bother with electricity, anodes, washing soda etc. You might leave it for 2 or 3 days, but so what - you can find other stuff to work on during that time.


I thought Mr. Pete222's tests and videos on rust removal were poorly done.  YMMV.


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## Silverbullet (Nov 20, 2017)

I for one like the hammered paint finish. In gray or bronze would be my choice. In fact I have the same mill in my shop waiting for me to work on. But I'm on a journey to get out of pain. Really hoping surgery will help.


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## Dgleavitt (Nov 29, 2017)

I like hammered to, but I already bought way too much smoke gray. I have had no time to work on this yet but I’ll get around to it eventually


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