# Greenerd No. # 3Arbor Press 3 Ton



## mrbreezeet1

do you guys think a greenerd No # 3 Arbor press 3 ton is worth $300.00?
He had it at $495.00, and now he is down to $300.00. 
I would like to have it in my shop, but is that a fair price. 
I know it's not a steal, but is it a fair price. 
I have seen it, and it looks to be in nice shape.

[h=2][/h]


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## valleyboy101

I have a number 2 which I bought cheap, with a stand full of bending fixtures etc at an auction during the early 90's recession.  I think $300 is a decent price as it appears to be in good condition, but I would probably push for $250.  I think I paid $45.00.
Michael


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## mrbreezeet1

valleyboy101 said:


> I have a number 2 which I bought cheap, with a stand full of bending fixtures etc at an auction during the early 90's recession.  I think $300 is a decent price as it appears to be in good condition, but I would probably push for $250.
> Michael



Don't know if you saw my "Brought a Unisaw sight un-seen" thread?
But it's actually the same guy. 
He had the unisaw on for a while at a certain price, and lowered it too. 
Maybe I will ask him if he will take $250.00. 
I think he sort of "took a liking " to me...................LOL


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## mrbreezeet1

Actually, I see ENCO has a nice looking one, 3 ton, ratcheting type, for just under $200.00. 
Catch there -20% sale get it for $180.00,_*(No, more like $160.00)*_ and combine with there free shipping code, pretty good deal. Still need a stand, or bench top real estate, But still.
I shot him an e mail, if he will take $250.00, I will go with it. I need one ASAP for my powermatic sander bearing install. They say you really need a press for those.                                                                                                                        http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=805-1035&PMPXNO=952944&PARTPG=INLMK32

BTY
why does this keep defaulting back to the small font?


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## mrbreezeet1

Mean while, I looked at enco. 
Are the 3 ton ones ENCO sells for around $200.00 any good?
They often have 20% off and combined free shipping promos going on. 

There is an ENCO brand, 
and a Palmgren brand. 
I always was under the impression that Palmgren was decent quality. 
You see a lot of there drill press vices. 

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAK ... PG=INLMK32
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAK ... PG=INLMK32


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## kd4gij

I yhink for that much money I would go with a 20 ton shop press from HF. Can do more with a shop press.


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## mrbreezeet1

kd4gij said:


> I yhink for that much money I would go with a 20 ton shop press from HF. Can do more with a shop press.



even the 12 ton, it's 129.99. 
Can you use a 20% 0r 25% coupon on the press?
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-shop-press-33497.html

anyone have the Palmgren brand. 
I always was under the impression that Palmgren was decent quality. 
You see a lot of there drill press vices. 

how is that brand in general?

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAK ... PG=INLMK32


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## Starlight Tools

Personally, looks like a fair deal on an arbor press, big question being how often do they show up "fos-sile" in your neighbour hood.  I paid more than that back in the early 80's for a Famco 25R without a stand.  I had called from school and asked if he would hold it until I got off school, otherwise I would have to skip school for the day.  He said he would hold it until I got there after school.  When I got there, I asked if there was any dicker room in his price and he pulled out a sheet of paper with my name and number written at the top and a long list of names and numbers written under it.  I paid the man what he was asking and hauled the beast home.  It has been the most used tool in the shop for many years now.

As for this unit you are looking at, 

Pluses  US made castings, and generally better built.

Minuses  Not a ratchet action, the ratchet puts your pressure point always in the best spot, not in an awkward downward angle.

The enco is probably Chinese (lower quality) or Taiwan (better than China)

Walter


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## mrbreezeet1

Starlight Tools said:


> Personally, looks like a fair deal on an arbor press, big question being how often do they show up "fos-sile" in your neighbour hood.  I paid more than that back in the early 80's for a Famco 25R without a stand.  I had called from school and asked if he would hold it until I got off school, otherwise I would have to skip school for the day.  He said he would hold it until I got there after school.  When I got there, I asked if there was any dicker room in his price and he pulled out a sheet of paper with my name and number written at the top and a long list of names and numbers written under it.  I paid the man what he was asking and hauled the beast home.  It has been the most used tool in the shop for many years now.
> 
> As for this unit you are looking at,
> 
> Pluses  US made castings, and generally better built.
> 
> Minuses  Not a ratchet action, the ratchet puts your pressure point always in the best spot, not in an awkward downward angle.
> 
> The enco is probably Chinese (lower quality) or Taiwan (better than China)
> 
> Walter



Thats so funny, I just read your post on another site. Same story. It was sitting in the wood pile?
Put it in your trunk, and you had power steering, front wheels barely touching. ........................LOL

_"There is an ENCO brand, 
and a Palmgren brand. 
I always was under the impression that Palmgren was decent quality. 
You see a lot of there drill press vices. "

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAK ... PG=INLMK32
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAK ... PG=INLMK32

_Thing is, the Palmgren brand, I thought would be better than the ENCO, 
But the link don't show it, but it says on the master catalog page, that the Enco 3 ton unit is a ratchet action  Page 601
So I don't know, maybe the Enco unit is a better choice?

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=601&PMITEM=805-1035


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## Starlight Tools

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Thats so funny, I just read your post on another site. Same story. It was sitting in the wood pile?
> Put it in your trunk, and you had power steering, front wheels barely touching. ........................LOL
> 
> _"There is an ENCO brand,
> and a Palmgren brand.
> I always was under the impression that Palmgren was decent quality.
> You see a lot of there drill press vices. "
> 
> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAK ... PG=INLMK32
> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAK ... PG=INLMK32
> 
> _Thing is, the Palmgren brand, I thought would be better than the ENCO,
> But the link don't show it, but it says on the master catalog page, that the Enco 3 ton unit is a ratchet action Page 601
> So I don't know, maybe the Enco unit is a better choice?
> 
> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=601&PMITEM=805-1035





If you look in the KBC tools catalogue   www.kbctools.com   see page 954 for the arbor presses, you will see that the KBC and the Palmgren arbor press is the same picture, only the Palmgren is light blue and the KBC is Gray, and the Palmgren says it is International Quality Line.  The specs seem to be a bit different between them, and the Plamgren appears to be a bit lighter in weight.  Mind you the picture is probably for the 1/2 ton unit as they have one picture for the range of presses.


Personally, and after selling and using many different arbor presses over the years, I like the ratchet action.  I would also aim for the 5 ton unit if I was to replace my current one as the extra capacity over the table is often a very important dimension.  My press is only about the same hight as the 3 ton units listed there, about 12" and I often find that the shaft or item to be pressed is just a bit too long to fit.  If you look at my other mentions of presses, you will find that I custom made a stand and that included a floor foot, that I can press against for long items.  Next mod will be to drill holes in the stand for a moveable auxillary table so I can further adjust for longer shafts.

Yup, the press was sitting in the guys woodpile, and yup it was heavy enough that it lifted the front tires of the Valiant I had at the time so that they just touched the ground, and yup the story will stay the same each time I tell it as easier to tell the truth than try to make up and remember a new story each time.

Walter


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## mrbreezeet1

heck, the KBC 3 ton is only $168.00, But I don't know about there shipping. 
but the 3 ton Palmgren is $600. something. 
It can't , I don't think be the same one enco has for $229.00
Oh, that site has free shipping orders over $200.00.
So you think the ratchet type I would like better. 
What, does it allow better force to be applied?
Looks like Enco don't have the Palmgren in the ratchet axction
_*You did say.............I like the ratchet action*_
The 3 ton is about all I can go for right now price wise.
_
*EDIT

This guy here was not happy at all with the 3 ton Palmgren.

http://www.amazon.com/Palmgren-61301-3-Ton-Manual-Arbor/product-reviews/B00068U7XG

If you read the reviews at enco, they are not favorable. 
[url]http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=890-8805&PMPXNO=3463254&PARTPG=INLMK32

Revews on the enco were good.   (5 stars out of 5 reviews)
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=805-1035&PMPXNO=952944&PARTPG=INLMK32


[/URL]*_


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## Starlight Tools

mrbreezeet1 said:


> heck, the KBC 3 ton is only $168.00, But I don't know about there shipping.
> but the 3 ton Palmgren is $600. something.
> It can't , I don't think be the same one enco has for $229.00
> Oh, that site has free shipping orders over $200.00.
> So you think the ratchet type I would like better.
> What, does it allow better force to be applied?
> Looks like Enco don't have the Palmgren in the ratchet axction
> _*You did say.............I like the ratchet action*_
> The 3 ton is about all I can go for right now price wise.
> _
> *EDIT
> 
> This guy here was not happy at all with the 3 ton Palmgren.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Palmgren-61301-3-Ton-Manual-Arbor/product-reviews/B00068U7XG
> 
> If you read the reviews at enco, they are not favorable.
> [URL]http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=890-8805&PMPXNO=3463254&PARTPG=INLMK32
> 
> Revews on the enco were good. (5 stars out of 5 reviews)
> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=805-1035&PMPXNO=952944&PARTPG=INLMK32
> 
> 
> [/URL]*_



With a conventional arbor press, the lever handle is a bar that slides through a hole in the shaft of the pinion gear. As the pinion gear is rotated, the ram is forced down or up. The lever however rotates from let's say straight up and down (12 o'clock) and clocks forward until it is straight up and down again, at which time you can slide it in the pinion back up to the top and start pressing again. The basic problem is that the best position for putting torque on the pinion is when the lever is at about 2 O'clock (1:30 to 2:30) HIgher than that 12 o'clock and the pull is forward not down. Lower than 3 O'clock and you shift your weight above the lever and push down, rather than pull down, and it can be awkward.

With a ratchet lever arbor press, the lever is not pinned to the pinnion, but rotates around it, and a dog on the lever engages a toothed "gear" on the pinion. When the lever gets to a position where it is not giving the best downward force, you raise it back up, click, click, click and then the dog engages the teeth of the gear and you can continue pressing. 

So yes, I definitely prefer the ratchet style arbor press, as it is easier and more efficient to use over one that has a sliding T-Bar lever. I have seen mod's done to regular presses, such as milling the end of the pinion in a hex and using a rachet and socket drive, but then a good 3/4" drive ratchet is pricey too, so often best to just get the ratchet style in the first place.

Palmgren shows an AP30 regular arbor press, 3 Ton and a RP30 Ratchet Abor press 3 Ton in the KBC Tools catalogue. The ratchet is higher priced than the regular one.

Walter


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## mrbreezeet1

OK Thanks, Ratchet sounds better. 
I didn't like the reviews of the Palmgren at enco and amazon, maybe that was a cheap one though. 
I am tempted to try the Enco one. The Palmgren RP30 Ratchet Arbor press 3 Ton is almost $700.00.


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## mcostello

I had a Jet 5 ton non ratchet and will not have another.  Handle was always in the wrong place. Bought a compound action Dake and like it alot.As an aside I also bought a Chinese 20 ton with gauge, put around 15 ton on it and broke the angle iron holding the bottom of the uprights together.  Drilled uprights on bottom and put a 1" tie bar through with washer and nuts, won't go anywhere now.


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## mrbreezeet1

vallwhatoy101 said:


> I have a number 2 which I bought cheap, with a stand full of bending fixtures etc at an auction during the early 90's recession.  I think $300 is a decent price as it appears to be in good condition, but I would probably push for $250.  I think I paid $45.00.
> Michael


Yeah,he came down to $250.00 for me, but Itold him l wanted to bring the quill aassembly from the lower drive drum of the 300 p/m sander l just got. Have him /and me demo it, I want to make sure 
It will do what l need it to.If it presses out the bearings OK l will most likely buy it. I am waiting to hear back from him


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## 12bolts

There is a cheap fix for non ratcheting arbor presses.
Basically it involves grinding a couple of teeth from the lower portion of the ram, Thus when the ram is raised to its full extent it is possible to rotate the pinion to any position that would suit the particular job at hand.

Cheers Phil


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## mrbreezeet1

12bolts said:


> There is a cheap fix for non ratcheting arbor presses.
> Basically it involves grinding a couple of teeth from the lower portion of the ram, Thus when the ram is raised to its full extent it is possible to rotate the pinion to any position that would suit the particular job at hand.
> 
> Cheers Phil



I may look into that.
I just got off the phone with him, I go look at it Friday, bringing the powermatic quill with me, 
Like I said, He came down to $250.00
I think it's a pretty good deal.


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## mrbreezeet1

mrbreezeet1 said:


> I may look into that.
> I just got off the phone with him, I go look at it Friday, bringing the powermatic quill with me,
> Like I said, He came down to $250.00
> I think it's a pretty good deal.





12bolts said:


> There is a cheap fix for non ratcheting arbor presses.
> Basically it involves grinding a couple of teeth from the lower portion  of the ram, Thus when the ram is raised to its full extent it is  possible to rotate the pinion to any position that would suit the  particular job at hand.
> 
> Cheers Phil


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFfx2_bj104


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## Starlight Tools

12bolts said:


> There is a cheap fix for non ratcheting arbor presses.
> Basically it involves grinding a couple of teeth from the lower portion of the ram, Thus when the ram is raised to its full extent it is possible to rotate the pinion to any position that would suit the particular job at hand.
> 
> Cheers Phil



This mod has some merit, but is not always the best route.  

If you are pressing something that has a relatively long press, you can start by running the ram all the way up and adjusting where your pinion will be, but as you return to the work and start pressing, you get to a point where the lever is in the wrong spot again, and it is a pain to run the ram back up to rotate the pinion, especially if what you are pressing is "less than stable"  on the press table.  For short presses usually works out ok.

Best route I have seen is to machine the end of the pinion to a suitable sized hex and place a socket on it, or machine a 3/4" square hole in the end of the pinion, or alternately weld on a socket so that you have a 3/4" square hole at the end of the pinion, then using a 3/4 Drive Ratchet you are now set.

Walter


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## mrbreezeet1

Starlight Tools said:


> This mod has some merit, but is not always the best route.
> 
> If you are pressing something that has a relatively long press, you can start by running the ram all the way up and adjusting where your pinion will be, but as you return to the work and start pressing, you get to a point where the lever is in the wrong spot again, and it is a pain to run the ram back up to rotate the pinion, especially if what you are pressing is "less than stable"  on the press table.  For short presses usually works out ok.
> 
> Best route I have seen is to machine the end of the pinion to a suitable sized hex and place a socket on it, or machine a 3/4" square hole in the end of the pinion, or alternately weld on a socket so that you have a 3/4" square hole at the end of the pinion, then using a 3/4 Drive Ratchet you are now set.
> 
> Walter



I might just do that.
I will see how it is 1st like it is though.


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## mrbreezeet1

Starlight Tools said:


> This mod has some merit, but is not always the best route.
> 
> If you are pressing something that has a relatively long press, you can start by running the ram all the way up and adjusting where your pinion will be, but as you return to the work and start pressing, you get to a point where the lever is in the wrong spot again, and it is a pain to run the ram back up to rotate the pinion, especially if what you are pressing is "less than stable"  on the press table.  For short presses usually works out ok.
> 
> Best route I have seen is to machine the end of the pinion to a suitable sized hex and place a socket on it, or machine a 3/4" square hole in the end of the pinion, or alternately weld on a socket so that you have a 3/4" square hole at the end of the pinion, then using a 3/4 Drive Ratchet you are now set.
> 
> Walter



I couldn't machine a 3/4" square hole, but if I got a shop to do it, is the metal hard enough that it wouldn't get wallowed out from using a 3/4" ratchet on it? What would you use, about an 18" ratchet on it? Those are pretty pricey too though.


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## Starlight Tools

mrbreezeet1 said:


> I couldn't machine a 3/4" square hole, but if I got a shop to do it, is the metal hard enough that it wouldn't get wallowed out from using a 3/4" ratchet on it? What would you use, about an 18" ratchet on it? Those are pretty pricey too though.



Try using it as is to start. You may find that for your application it will work fine. I use my press every day, many times a day, so the extra convenience of a ratchet lever is very much appreciated, but there are thousands of presses made without that feature, so not always a critical "break a deal" point.

Square holes are not that hard to make, Drill each of four corners with a smaller sized drill bit and drill out the centre with a bit the size of your square, then clean out the rest. As for wallowing out the square hole, will depend on how much use it gets.

Here is an article from Rick Sparber on making square holes.

http://rick.sparber.org/msh.pdf

3/4 drive ratchets, find a good used one. I have one in the store now, 3/4 ratchet, 3/4 Sliding T-Bar (bar is a bit bent) extensions and sockets from 7/8 - 1-7/8 that will sell for about $200.

Walter


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## mrbreezeet1

Thats what I was thinking, maybe it won't be that bad as it is. I take it in making a square hole. you are talking about a through hole, not a blind hole?
But now, the # 3 press, it should have enough omph for my application. 1st project is to press out bearings in the powermatic sander drum rollers?
This is a question.


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## valleyboy101

I've got a Greenard #2 and it wouldn't have a problem, so with a #3 no sweat.
Michael


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## Starlight Tools

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Thats what I was thinking, maybe it won't be that bad as it is. I take it in making a square hole. you are talking about a through hole, not a blind hole?
> But now, the # 3 press, it should have enough omph for my application. 1st project is to press out bearings in the powermatic sander drum rollers?
> This is a question.



Through hole or blind hole, technique is almost the same.   Only real difference is that you need to set depth to drill the holes and drill the four corners with a diameter that is small enough to give desired corner radius.  Maybe chain drill on either side as well, if needed.  Drill centre section out with bit the diameter of the square.  This cleans out 90% or more of the square section.  Then clean out the rest, die grinder, pliers etc.

Walter


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## mrbreezeet1

http://rick.sparber.org/msh.pdf
That is a good PDF Thank You,


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## itsme_Bernie

12bolts said:


> There is a cheap fix for non ratcheting arbor presses.
> Basically it involves grinding a couple of teeth from the lower portion of the ram, Thus when the ram is raised to its full extent it is possible to rotate the pinion to any position that would suit the particular job at hand.
> 
> Cheers Phil



Whoh Great idea!

I don't know if I'll modify my Greenard, but that is great to keep in mind

Bernie

- - - Updated - - -

I have this exact arbor press, Greenard #3.  Great size.  Good thing is it still has the bolster plate (rotating plate) for different diameter work.  Mine still has it.  Not that you can't make one, but nice to have it already.  

There are workarounds for the ratcheting type of action if that gets to you.  I don't have much issue with it, for as often as I use it, and for the price difference.


Bernie


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## mrbreezeet1

Does it have plenty of force to say press automotive U joints, and say, bearings in My powermatic 33 sander?



itsme_Bernie said:


> Whoh Great idea!
> 
> I don't know if I'll modify my Greenard, but that is great to keep in mind
> 
> Bernie
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> I have this exact arbor press, Greenard #3.  Great size.  Good thing is it still has the bolster plate (rotating plate) for different diameter work.  Mine still has it.  Not that you can't make one, but nice to have it already.
> 
> There are workarounds for the ratcheting type of action if that gets to you.  I don't have much issue with it, for as often as I use it, and for the price difference.
> 
> 
> Bernie


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## mrbreezeet1

The 3 ton Greenerd came home with me today. If I had a brain, I would be dangerous!
I forgot my money. was an hour and a half away. I have to mail him a check now. 
But I dealt with him before, so He trusted me. 
He is the fellow I brought my 1940's Unisaw off of.

Then I stopped at Harbor Freight and picked up this bearing splitter set. Had a 25% 0ff coupon too. 
http://www.harborfreight.com/bearing-separator-and-puller-set-93980.html
Fellows at Garage journal gave it high marks. 



Thanks for the replies and help.


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## Starlight Tools

OK sounds good, and you have the bearing knives now as well, so that is a good start.  I like the OTC Bearing splitters as they use a single pressure screw, but I have a many of the style you picked up and they work well.  

Now you need to get or make some press sleeves.  I discussed them a depth in this thread.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/19291-anyone-have-a-large-arbor-press?highlight=press+sleeves

Walter


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## kd4gij

Another way to add ratch to that press. Get aa 3/4" drive socket that will drive over the pinion shaft. Drill a hole through the side the size of the lever. Drive the socket on and pin it.


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## mrbreezeet1

Starlight Tools said:


> OK sounds good, and you have the bearing knives now as well, so that is a good start.  I like the OTC Bearing splitters as they use a single pressure screw, but I have a many of the style you picked up and they work well.
> 
> Now you need to get or make some press sleeves.  I discussed them a depth in this thread.
> 
> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/19291-anyone-have-a-large-arbor-press?highlight=press+sleeves
> 
> Walter



Oh Ok Good, I'll check the link. I have made them from old bearing races too, ground a little off the OD so they wouldn't get stuck.


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## Starlight Tools

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/13257-Arbor-Press-Ratchet-Handle

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/18354-Making-arbor-press-daisy-wheel

Here are a couple of links to arbor presses with ratchet handles adapted.

As for bearing sleeves, a dead bearing race can be used, but is often too short to reach far enough along a shaft to press a bearing onto the bearing seat.  I find that the longer press sleeves are more useful than the short ones most of the time.

Walter


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## mrbreezeet1

Well l used one of the 50 mm (0D) bearings to seat the OD of the new bearing.it had to go into the housing about a eighth of an inch.
Worked well in that case.


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## Starlight Tools

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Well l used one of the 50 mm (0D) bearings to seat the OD of the new bearing.it had to go into the housing about a eighth of an inch.
> Worked well in that case.



That works when seating the bearing into a housing, but most times the bearing is seated on the shaft and has a slip fit in the housing, and if the shaft is longer, it needs a longer sleeve to press it on.  Now, often it is easier to flip the shaft and bearing and press the long shaft down through the bearing, with the bearing rested on the table, but the big thing to remember is that the bearing must be supported by the race that is being pressed on.  IE  if pressing onto a shaft, support the inner race, if pressing into a housing, press against the outer race.  The big killer of bearings is to transfer the seating press force from one race to the other through the rolling elements.

Walter


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## Arkie

Cleaned up a old 3/4” drive socket on the lathe and bored it to fit the press pinion shaft.  Held in place by a pin through the socket and shaft.


 A couple of feet away, is a 30 ton hydraulic press...the arbor press is always the first choice if the part will fit and not too heavy of a press.


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## mrbreezeet1

Arkie said:


> Cleaned up a old 3/4” drive socket on the lathe and bored it to fit the press pinion shaft.  Held in place by a pin through the socket and shaft.
> 
> 
> A couple of feet away, is a 30 ton hydraulic press...the arbor press is always the first choice if the part will fit and not too heavy of a press.



nice job on that. 
I don't think I am going to alter this one though.


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