# Cutting ferrous and non-ferrous metals with the same blade?



## Aaron_W (Jun 16, 2020)

I just got an old Kalamazoo bandsaw and reading through the manual it states

*DO NOT CUT* brass, copper, bronze and aluminum with the same blade used for steel or cast iron. Separate blades should be used.


I can understand steel and cast iron will probably wear a blade faster, but this seems a pretty stringent thou shalt not, as though it can cause serious issues rather than a recommendation for the best performance or better blade life.

Is there another concern here beyond a dull blade not cutting as well? I've not heard that this is an issue.
The manual has a huge amount of overlap recommending 10-14 tpi for most materials aluminum and some cast iron being the outliers with 6-10 tpi recommended so it would not appear to be that blade choice is behind the warning.

Is this a contamination issue like grinding steel on your tungsten electrode grinder, or mixing peanut butter with chocolate?


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## mikey (Jun 16, 2020)

I dunno' the answer but I've cut all common materials in my shop with the same blade, a Lenox Diemaster II 10-14 tooth variable for years now and have had no issues.


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## Aaron_W (Jun 16, 2020)

mikey said:


> I dunno' the answer but I've cut all common materials in my shop with the same blade, a Lenox Diemaster II 10-14 tooth variable for years now and have had no issues.



I have a little chop saw with a non-ferrous blade I usually use to cut brass and aluminum with. I mostly use the bandsaw for the steel, although I did cut a large piece of bronze with it once. It is just that the language is so strong without explanation, kind of makes me wonder if I broke a commandment when I cut that piece of bronze.


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## mikey (Jun 16, 2020)

Might have to do with contamination is weldments but it certainly cannot be referring to the ability of the same bandsaw blade to cut all these materials because if it is then I have to disagree.


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## Lo-Fi (Jun 16, 2020)

I've had the same blade in my power hacksaw for ten years and cut everything from tool steel to coconuts. I can't see what the problem is here! No job shop I've been to for offcuts has had separate blade or saw for any of their stock that I can recall either. 

Interested to know the reasoning for that warning if anyone does know, though.


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## projectnut (Jun 16, 2020)

Lo-Fi said:


> I've had the same blade in my power hacksaw for ten years and cut everything from tool steel to coconuts. I can't see what the problem is here! No job shop I've been to for offcuts has had separate blade or saw for any of their stock that I can recall either.
> 
> Interested to know the reasoning for that warning if anyone does know, though.



My blades generally don't last that long, but like others I use the same on for a variety of materials.  Most common are ferrous and aluminum, but a couple weeks ago I cut some crown and base shoe moldings.  The blade still cuts iron and aluminum just fine. 

I've been purchasing blades from Ellis Manufacturing going on 20 years.  Looking at their selection I don't see anything requiring a specific blade for one material or another.









						Band Saw Blades - Ellis Mfg, Inc.
					

Ellis welds quality blades for our band saws and other manufacturers. Our General Purpose Blade is an excellent blade when cutting a variety of materials.



					www.ellissaw.com
				




I must say however we did use dedicated grinding wheels and wire brushes for stainless in the shop where I worked.  It was to eliminate cross contamination of ferrous materials onto stainless.  In time the ferrous would show signs of rust which was an absolute no no for the USDA inspector.


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## Bob Korves (Jun 16, 2020)

TPI of blades is also related to the size of the work.  We would like to keep 3 teeth minimum in the cut at all times to keep from chipping teeth, and we do not want a lot of teeth in the cut because then the gullets tend to load up with chips.


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## RJSakowski (Jun 16, 2020)

I cut wood, plastic, aluminum, brass, and steel all with the same blade.  The only reason that I can see for different blade would be the tpi.  For aluminum and other soft materials, I would prefer a coarser tooth for faster cutting but I usually won't be bothered unless I have a lot of cutting to do.


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## Ken from ontario (Jun 16, 2020)

I have seen that "warning" on Kalamazoo bandsaw manual , never paid attention to it but that cross contamination theory is the only thing that makes sense.
I  switched to bi=-metal blades for my metal cutting bandsaw soon after I broke the one that came with the saw,  the old carbon steel blades used to get dull fast so maybe the Kalamazoo manual was encouraging the idea of having two blades (at least) so they would last longer?
That Lenox Di master  goes through metal fast and supposedly lasts 5 times longer than carbon steel blades.


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## benmychree (Jun 16, 2020)

Blades that have been used on steel tend to get a bit dull (they still cut well). It takes a sharp blade to cut well in brass/bronze, and I suppose, aluminum.


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## Diecutter (Jun 16, 2020)

It's probably in the manual because they also sell a line of bandsaw blades.  Like on my fish food container that says  feed fish three times a day.


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## Janderso (Jun 16, 2020)

Diecutter may have found the motivating factor, sell more product!
My saw cuts what ever I feed it.


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## Aaron_W (Jun 16, 2020)

benmychree said:


> Blades that have been used on steel tend to get a bit dull (they still cut well). It takes a sharp blade to cut well in brass/bronze, and I suppose, aluminum.



That was the only thing I could come up with. I could certainly see swapping blades or having a dedicated saw for steel in shop that did a high volume of non-ferrous cutting, but that seems an exception. Kind of like using your Mom's good sewing scissors to cut paper, you only make that mistake once.  



Diecutter said:


> It's probably in the manual because they also sell a line of bandsaw blades.  Like on my fish food container that says  feed fish three times a day.



You may be on to something.   

With all of those saying never heard of a reason I think I can rest easy and just worry about tooth count.


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## Aukai (Jun 16, 2020)

I have to see what comes with my Doall, at 50 bucks a blade, I would like them to last.
If you eat at an Asian restaurant that uses Kikkoman soy sauce, the dispenser has "Refill with only with Kikkoman soy sauce" written on the bottle.
Why,,,,, is it because the other brands won't fit?


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## rzw0wr (Jun 16, 2020)

Brass and non-ferrous metals usually take a  zero or negative rake on cutting tools.

I don't know if that would be the reason.

Can't say that I have ever seen a negativity or zero  rake saw blade.

Yes it was auto correct., Sorry


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## MrWhoopee (Jun 16, 2020)

rzw0wr said:


> Brass and non ferocious metals



I just don't know what to say.....

auto correct?


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## Twirpunky (Jun 16, 2020)

MrWhoopee said:


> I just don't know what to say.....
> 
> auto correct?



  I would be leery of the " ferocious metals"


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## Meta Key (Jun 16, 2020)

Even my brass is ferocious.  

Probably something I said..

MK


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## yendor (Jun 16, 2020)

While I don't know the answer I do find my files like to be used on one or the other and If I mix them up they don't seem to cut as well.


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## RandyWilson (Jun 16, 2020)

I was just at my local metal supplier, the only one that will cut to length for people that don't have a shipyard PO in hand, and saw they had two saws. One for steel, a large Dewalt chopsaw. And one for aluminum, a Milwaukee circular saw.  I asked what sort of blade he used. He just shrugged and said "whatever was in it, it's not really fussy."


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 16, 2020)

i have never made my bandsaw or hacksaw blades metal specific.
i use the same blade for just about everything.
very thin materials will get a finer tooth count on the hacksaw, but i rarely cut very thin materials with a bandsaw


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## matthewsx (Jun 16, 2020)

Sometimes stuff is just marketing specific like the instructions on shampoo bottles " lather rinse repeat". Other times there is a specific reason that was important 60 years ago but not so much now. Consensus seems to be use whatever blade has the right TPI for the material you're cutting. 

I would think though that if there was an old technical reason for this advice one of our seasoned members would know it....

John


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## projectnut (Jun 16, 2020)

Bob Korves said:


> TPI of blades is also related to the size of the work.  We would like to keep 3 teeth minimum in the cut at all times to keep from chipping teeth, and we do not want a lot of teeth in the cut because then the gullets tend to load up with chips.



I was taught that the minimum is to have 3 teeth engaged in the material and a maximum of 24 teeth for the reasons you described.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jun 16, 2020)

i use 24 tpi for cutting tubing or thin materials


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## darkzero (Jun 16, 2020)

Meta Key said:


> Even my brass is ferocious.
> 
> Probably something I said..
> 
> MK



Not something you said, what you will do. Brass tends to get that way when they know they are about to be machined. They tend to shower me with chips just to remind me how they feel.


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## NortonDommi (Jun 17, 2020)

I have a set of drills specifically for Brass and Bronze and files the same.  Bandsaw does everything including frozen meat.


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## mikey (Jun 17, 2020)

NortonDommi said:


> Bandsaw does everything including frozen meat.



Please tell us that you change blades and do not use coolant when cutting meat ...


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## kb58 (Jun 17, 2020)

When I'd visit the machine shop in the 1970s, the guys there were all ex-WWII types. They had a big bandsaw there and the only time I saw them changing blades was because it had worn out, broke, or they needed a different TPI, but never for material type.


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## Lo-Fi (Jun 17, 2020)

NortonDommi said:


> I have a set of drills specifically for Brass and Bronze and files the same.  Bandsaw does everything including frozen meat.



Interesting! Take it you've knocked the drill edges to zero rake for brass and bronze, which stops them digging in? Are the files different, though?


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## Nogoingback (Jun 17, 2020)

I cut non ferrous (non ferocious) metal in my table saw and use a blade made for that purpose (unless I'm
too lazy to change from a wood blade).  The NF blade has zero rake teeth which I think would be useful for brass
though I can't remember using it for that.  With aluminum, there's very little difference between the wood and NF blade
in the way they cut.


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## Aaron_W (Jun 17, 2020)

Nogoingback said:


> I cut non ferrous (non ferocious) metal in my table saw and use a blade made for that purpose (unless I'm
> too lazy to change from a wood blade).  The NF blade has zero rake teeth which I think would be useful for brass
> though I can't remember using it for that.  With aluminum, there's very little difference between the wood and NF blade
> in the way they cut.



I have a Diablo non-ferrous blade on a 7-1/4" miter saw, that I use to cut brass and aluminum, mostly tube and rod up to about 1".


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## Mitch Alsup (Jun 17, 2020)

The only thing I do when different material is being cut is to change the speeds.


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