# So frustrated with my new HF 4x6 band saw



## Maplehead (Dec 29, 2020)

Hi All
I picked up a metal cutting bandsaw yesterday. It's the cheap Harbor Freight 4x6. All the reviews for this saw are positive so I figured what the heck. Anyways, I have spent several hours now trying to get this thing to cut straight. No go. I'm cutting 1/8" mild steel angle iron. I tried cutting with the angle iron sides down, like a standing pyramid, and the blade just swings outward as it goes down, every time, even after many different adjustments. I turned the stock so that it would cut down onto only one side and the same thing happened. The blade started to cut outward again but then the cutting stopped as the blade came off the wheels.
Blade tensioning seems to be a mystery. In fact, the manual really lacks in both set up info and adjustment info. One thing that looks cloogy to me is how much the blades has to twist coming off the wheels into the guide mechanisms. Is that how they are normally?
Any and all help in getting me to adjust this correctly is greatly appreciated.
And yes, I have watched many vids on the subject, to no avail.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Dec 29, 2020)

your blade looks really loose. Tighten it up as hard as you can by hand. Then using a square of some sort, make sure the blade is perpendicular to the table (not leaning over one way or another) using the adjustment bolt at the top of the guide. Then get the blade parallel to the table by adjusting the rollers. Don't adjust them too tight or you'll break the blade - you should be able to move each roller by hand with a bit of effort.

Try those and see if anything changes. Getting the tracking right is a complete pain, but you only have to do it once


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## Maplehead (Dec 29, 2020)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> your blade looks really loose. Tighten it up as hard as you can by hand. Then using a square of some sort, make sure the blade is perpendicular to the table (not leaning over one way or another) using the adjustment bolt at the top of the guide. Then get the blade parallel to the table by adjusting the rollers. Don't adjust them too tight or you'll break the blade - you should be able to move each roller by hand with a bit of effort.
> 
> Try those and see if anything changes. Getting the tracking right is a complete pain, but you only have to do it once


Hi Matt
Thanks for the reply. Is there any other way to tell when tension is correct than just tightening as hard as I can? I'm afraid of breaking the blade if I do that.


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## mickri (Dec 29, 2020)

I have a craftsman 3x6.  So not the same machine but I had the same problem with not getting straight cuts.  I discovered that the amount of pressure on the blade had a lot to do with getting straight cuts.  Once I slowed down how fast I tried to get the blade cut through the material the cuts got straighter.  The blade can only cut so fast through the material.  If you apply too much pressure the blade has to go somewhere so it bends.  I also found that having the guide rollers as close as possible to the width of the material also helped with getting straighter cuts.


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## markba633csi (Dec 29, 2020)

The blade will make a musical note when plucked- like a fat guitar string.  I have used Starrett and Morse blades with good results.  Not sure about HF blades.
Yes the blade is twisted quite a bit by the guide mechanism- that's normal.  But the blade should be perfectly perpendicular as it meets the work, and the drive wheels need to be in the same plane.  You might need to shim one or both.
Too much pressure can cause the blade to skew off at an angle.  You may have to play with the spring tension to get a good result. With a sharp blade, only light pressure is needed.
Adding a hydraulic feed to these saws can make a big improvement there- I converted mine as have many others
-Mark


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## mattthemuppet2 (Dec 29, 2020)

Maplehead said:


> Hi Matt
> Thanks for the reply. Is there any other way to tell when tension is correct than just tightening as hard as I can? I'm afraid of breaking the blade if I do that.



no, that's about the right tension  You can't get the tension high enough to break the band with one hand on that plastic knob. However you can break the blade (as I did) if the side rollers are too tight.


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## bakrch (Dec 29, 2020)

I agree, right out of the box it is extremely frustrating. Here is a .pdf that floats around this site. Consider it a proper owner's manual.

I used to hate my saw, but this got me appreciating it very quickly.


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## NCjeeper (Dec 29, 2020)

The blades that come with the saw are crappy. Putting a quality blade on it will help greatly.


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## Maplehead (Dec 29, 2020)

bakrch said:


> I agree, right out of the box it is extremely frustrating. Here is a .pdf that floats around this site. Consider it a proper owner's manual.
> 
> I used to hate my saw, but this got me appreciating it very quickly.


I read that one last night and again earlier this morning. I haven't doen the wheelmchecks yet, just everything to do with the guide bearings.
A few more questions:
Loosening the feed spring seems to make the cut go faster. How fast should a cut be going through 2" of 1/8" mild steel?
If the cutting stops midway down does that mean the feed spring is too taught and it's holding the machine from advancing further?
My blade is just about square to the fence. The blade looks to be square to the table. If the blade is in fact square to the table and the blade tension is correct then what would be the next factor causing the blade to slope outwards as it cuts down?
Lastly, do all these machines make that cyclic noise per every revolution because of the blades weld joint? Mine is pretty loud.


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## Maplehead (Dec 29, 2020)

NCjeeper said:


> The blades that come with the saw are crappy. Putting a quality blade on it will help greatly.


I've read that everywhere as well, but I also read that until that OEM blade dies it should still cut straight. Not your case?


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## markba633csi (Dec 29, 2020)

There should not be a large cyclic noise from the weld joint- That sounds like a poor quality blade to me.
I would say anywhere from 30 sec to 2 minutes would be a reasonable time to cut 2" of 1/8 steel.  You want only a couple pounds downfeed pressure
If the blade is actually stopping that could be several things- greasy drive wheels, incorrect pressure, loose blade, lack of oil in gearbox or slipping belt
-M


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## Maplehead (Dec 29, 2020)

markba633csi said:


> There should not be a large cyclic noise from the weld joint- That sounds like a poor quality blade to me.
> I would say anywhere from 30 sec to 2 minutes would be a reasonable time to cut 2" of 1/8 steel.  You want only a couple pounds downfeed pressure
> If the blade is actually stopping that could be several things- greasy drive wheels, incorrect pressure, loose blade, lack of oil in gearbox or slipping belt
> -M


The blade is still running though so I'm leaning towards too much tension in the feed spring.
That gear box is at an angle. Can I open the lid as the saw naturally stands without worry of all the oil spilling out? Or do I need to lean the saw until the lid of the gear box is level with the floor? Dumb questions but if the manual just had all of this it would sure be a lot easier.


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## bakrch (Dec 29, 2020)

Maplehead said:


> I read that one last night and again earlier this morning. I haven't doen the wheelmchecks yet, just everything to do with the guide bearings.
> A few more questions:
> Loosening the feed spring seems to make the cut go faster. How fast should a cut be going through 2" of 1/8" mild steel?
> If the cutting stops midway down does that mean the feed spring is too taught and it's holding the machine from advancing further?
> ...



First, I have to imagine every one of these saws acts radically different from the next as far as how they leave the factory.

The feed spring is probably the most fiddly, and  (assuming everything is squared up) when I get cuts like that it tends to be too loose, with too much weight/force in the cut.  YMMV.

From what I remember, the factory blade had a fine tooth on mine. Something like 20tpi or so, and it took FOOORREEVVERRRRR to cut even plastic. Now I use the 10-14 tpi bi-metal blade they sell (the $30 one, I forget the name brand it's been so long since I've had to buy one).  For example, the stock blade that came with mine would take about 22 minutes to cut through 3"x5" 6061 aluminum. The 10-14 bimetal is about 3-4 minutes in the same cut.

Not sure how you have the guide set, but I would have the tightening knob outside of the slot. With half of the knob tightening on the outside of the casting, and the rest hanging out in the air ... if you will.  This will get the guide close as possible and minimize wandering.

Personally, my biggest problem was the lateral movement of the blade. It would run off the top roller and get pinched until I added a few washers to keep it from wandering so much.

If you are getting a heavy tick, inspect for cracks in the blade it may be about to fail.

I used to chew through blades almost weekly due to a wobbly wheel. Ended up re-boring the wheel on a lathe and bushing it back down.  Haven't had an issue since.

It is a nightmare to get these things running, but they really are a great buy if you have .... ALLLLLL the time in the world to set it up.


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## markba633csi (Dec 29, 2020)

You may find very little oil in there- but you can put a pan underneath just in case.  Be prepared for a little mess, it's part of the fun. Some say the factory uses old crankcase drippings in there.  I would not be at all surprised.
As far as the spring tensioner, it's duty is to counteract the weight of the saw so that only a small downforce is applied to the blade.  It's a compromise for low cost.  One drawback is that it puts a twisting force on the saw pivot and affects the alignment of the saw to the table.  Takes some experimentation.
-Mark
PS My saw, which is late 70s vintage, bought as a basket case for 40$, took me over 2 months to get running well. Needed everything- bearings, gearbox overhaul, everything.  Runs great now but I enjoyed fixing it up, learned quite a bit


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## Maplehead (Dec 29, 2020)

Holy Moly! So I bought a new blade, some HF "high end" blade. Just made my first cut with it. STRAIGHT!!!
Wow, the stock blade had no cuts on it, but it's that bad right out of the box. I'd have been fighting this for days if I didn't change that stinking blade.
Thanks all for the advice.


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## Janderso (Dec 29, 2020)

Get a good blade, it's worth it.


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## Maplehead (Dec 29, 2020)

Janderso said:


> Get a good blade, it's worth it.


I guess so. That cyclic noise is gone now too.
It is so awesome for such little money to have this now, and working quite accurately. No more hack sawing. Thank G


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## Larry$ (Dec 29, 2020)

That noise you are hearing is likely the lousy weld on the blade. Best thing to do with that blade is circular file it. 
I've got a much older version, same basic design. Until I went over it and adjusted everything, did some filing and tensioned the hell out of the blade it didn't work well. It is now a relatively decent saw. The variable pitch blades seem to work better. Ideally about 3 teeth should be in the work but who is going to change blades for different metal thickness? Orient the work so fewer teeth are dragging through it. V up on angle iron. Bar stock trapped at an angle in the vice, you will need a way of holding it down. Use blocks of wood or something to keep the vice faces parallel when cutting short work. I tapped the vice so I can use a bolt to fine tune the block thickness rather than finding a new one for every short piece I'm cutting.  Make yourself a quick to attach table for using the saw in the vertical position.  You bought a kit, now make it into a saw.


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## bakrch (Dec 29, 2020)

Maplehead said:


> Holy Moly! So I bought a new blade, some HF "high end" blade. Just made my first cut with it. STRAIGHT!!!
> Wow, the stock blade had no cuts on it, but it's that bad right out of the box. I'd have been fighting this for days if I didn't change that stinking blade.
> Thanks all for the advice.



Yep, I have had very good luck with these blades. Only bad experience was one that was sized incorrectly and wouldn't even tighten, took it right back for exchange with no problems.  Have used Lennox as well with similar results.


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## Maplehead (Dec 29, 2020)

Larry$ said:


> That noise you are hearing is likely the lousy weld on the blade. Best thing to do with that blade is circular file it.
> I've got a much older version, same basic design. Until I went over it and adjusted everything, did some filing and tensioned the hell out of the blade it didn't work well. It is now a relatively decent saw. The variable pitch blades seem to work better. Ideally about 3 teeth should be in the work but who is going to change blades for different metal thickness? Orient the work so fewer teeth are dragging through it. V up on angle iron. Bar stock trapped at an angle in the vice, you will need a way of holding it down. Use blocks of wood or something to keep the vice faces parallel when cutting short work. I tapped the vice so I can use a bolt to fine tune the block thickness rather than finding a new one for every short piece I'm cutting.  Make yourself a quick to attach table for using the saw in the vertical position.  You bought a kit, now make it into a saw.


"You bought a kit, now make it into a saw." LOL, made my day.


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## bakrch (Dec 29, 2020)

Maplehead said:


> "You bought a kit, now make it into a saw." LOL, made my day.



Take the belt with you to an auto parts store and have one on standby, the OEM belt shreds pretty quickly.


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## markba633csi (Dec 29, 2020)

He's seen the light!  Another convert (victim) of cheap import tools! LOL


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## 7milesup (Dec 29, 2020)

I have one of these saws too.  The original blade, as you found out, is absolutely and completely worthless.  It might cut butter, but probably not straight.
There are some excellent videos out there on how to adjust the wheels for straight cuts.  It takes a lot of fiddling with it, but that is true with almost any saw like these, whether it is a small one or a large 7x12.  
Also, as your blade wears, you find that the tracking may change a little.  I much prefer the Lenox blades over anything else.  I get mine from Mars Supply.


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## RandyWilson (Dec 29, 2020)

I bought one of these a few months ago. Guess I got lucky, because it has worked pretty much flawlessly since day one. It has done straight cuts through 2" round 4140 stock several times.  The original blade is likely needing replacement after that, but I haven't ordered one as yet.


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## C-Bag (Dec 29, 2020)

Maplehead said:


> Lastly, do all these machines make that cyclic noise per every revolution because of the blades weld joint? Mine is pretty loud.


Mine is a late 70’s HF that was made in Taiwan. It has been a great saw and the only thing I’ve ever had to replace was the guide bearings. It does need some tweaking to set up properly.

The cycling noise is from a broken tooth on the blade. This usually happens when cutting something on edge like a piece of angle iron or channel with a blade that the distance between the saw teeth are more than the thickness of what you’re cutting. 

As my blades age and get more tooth gaps the blade pulls and the cuts get off. New blade and all is well.

I cut angle with the angle up, edges down, like a pyramid.I do this by loosening the vise bolt enough that I can hook the base of the vise jaw over the angle then tighten the vise. That way the angle can’t pop out during the cut. I love the 4x6 because it’s cheap, so like all HF stuff I don’t have a problem modding it. And even though I’ve run a ton of different saws in my days mine with its mods is just good as anything 2-3x’s it’s price IMHO. YMMV.


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## Maplehead (Dec 29, 2020)

Impressive the miter cuts. I bet with a little bit more tweaking I can get that milimeter gap at the top out.
This will make for some much easier welding.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 29, 2020)

I only run Lenox blades on my saws. Anything else and it’s a fight to get accurate cuts. 
Glad you sorted it out.


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## Jackle1312 (Dec 29, 2020)

Check if the blade moves down square to the table. I had one that required shimming of the pivot so that it would cut square.


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## Buffalo21 (Dec 29, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I only run Lenox blades on my saws. Anything else and it’s a fight to get accurate cuts.
> Glad to sorted it out.



interesting, I had terrible luck with Lenox brand bandsaw blades, my Rockwell/Delta vertical bandsaw, my Wilton/Jet 7 x 12 horizontal bandsaw and my Milwaukee portabands, they cut like crap, wandered all over, could not keep an edge, I eventually ended up with Morse bandsaw blades, the best I’ve use (so far). I never really understood this because the Lenox step drill and hole saws are some of the best I’ve ever used.


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## Shootymacshootface (Dec 29, 2020)

Glad that you got it sorted out. Just a bit of advice on blades. Before you try to cut a piece of metal of unknown alloy, try a file on it first. It doesn't take much to knock the good off the teeth of a good blade. My experience has been that by the time you realize the metal is too hard to cut, the blade is trash.


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## sycle1 (Dec 29, 2020)

Agree with Shooty on that, new blades can be ruined real quick be careful.
Mine cut straight out of the box even with the cheap crappy blade on it.
It was about when I started hearing the weld make a click noise over the wheels I thought okay blade is not too happy and then bang she broke, the new blade cuts even better and faster.
Tried to buy Lennox blade but couldn't find a reseller over here, went with a locally welded blade, made from German blade stock.
Bought 2 just to be sure.


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## Jim F (Dec 29, 2020)




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## jh1990 (Dec 30, 2020)

I took mine back to HF after screwing with it for way too long. The blade would not come straight down. I think the hole for the hinge pin was drilled crooked. So cutting anything but flat bar came out looking like crap.

Take a machinist square and make sure your blade is coming straight down.


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## martik777 (Dec 30, 2020)

When my lennox blade broke I ordered one of these 14tpi bimetal blades - worked just as good:
1645*13*0.65*14tpi M42 bimetal bandsaw blade for metal cutting free shipping|Saw Blades| - AliExpress


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## 682bear (Dec 30, 2020)

Buffalo21 said:


> interesting, I had terrible luck with Lenox brand bandsaw blades, my Rockwell/Delta vertical bandsaw, my Wilton/Jet 7 x 12 horizontal bandsaw and my Milwaukee portabands, they cut like crap, wandered all over, could not keep an edge, I eventually ended up with Morse bandsaw blades, the best I’ve use (so far). I never really understood this because the Lenox step drill and hole saws are some of the best I’ve ever used.




I was buying Lenox brand blades from Home Depot for my 4x6... they worked well for a while, then I got 3 of them in a row that broke with just a couple of uses... maybe a bad batch of blades?

Now, I'm buying my blades from McMaster... they are Morse brand, and last a lot longer.

Maybe the Home Depot/ Lenox blades are a lower quality blade? IDK...

-Bear


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## jpackard56 (Dec 30, 2020)

BandSawBladesDirect.com  Lennox bi-metal 10-14 has been great for what I do.
I've had better results from these folks over Home Depot and such, does make you wonder if different quality of "name brand" stuff is somehow sent to box stores.
The HF saw takes some fiddling but once set with a good blade hard to beat for the cost, good luck


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## cathead (Dec 30, 2020)

Cyclical noise can be due to the weld joint or defugalties in the blade itself usually due to several missing teeth on the blade.
A metal saw needs at least three teeth contacting the work or the forces are too great for the teeth and they break off.
Inspect the blade and you will find what it is you are hearing.  Moving the bearing wheels closer together may
be a help as far as crooked cutting is concerned.  Also adjusting and or shimming of the bearings will aid in getting
a straight cut.  Get a good bimetallic blade too if you don't have one.  Carbon steel blades don't hold up very well in my
experience.


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## Downunder Bob (Dec 30, 2020)

A couple of. comments, 
1, carbon steel blades will work quite well on mild steel and softer metals, as long as you reduce the cutting speed, also using a cutting fluid / coolant will help.

2. I have found pre-packaged brand name blades a bit of hit and miss. Recently I found a guy who makes up blades to order. He has big rolls of blade material in various sizes and tooth set, plus different materials, he will make up blades to suit any cutting I have. I have even cut untempered spring steel and axle steel with his blades. The big bonus he is way cheaper than any brand name even from big box stores, and I get the benefit of his advice so my cheap 5 x 5 does a great job.

3. Yes the blade must be tight. I run mine as tight as I can get it with that little plastic knob., and always slacken it off when I put the machine away.


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## homebrewed (Dec 31, 2020)

There can be a number of reasons why a 4x6 doesn't cut straight, and in some cases you have to use an iterative approach to correct the problem(s). 

 For instance, perhaps you noticed that the blade guide assemblies use what appears to be a really sloppy dovetail system to install them on the sawframe.  This is deliberate, and is meant to adjust the blade twist -- which affects how the blade cuts in the vertical direction.  And you have to adjust both blade guides in a back & forth mode to get the blade right all the way across the cut.  However, the hinge/pivot arrangement on these is rarely perfectly machined, and that also affects the cut.  You can work all day on one of these issues but if the other one is contributing a lot to the problem you won't make any progress past a certain point.

The above issues relate to how the saw cuts in the vertical plane.  You also can have misalignment in the horizontal direction as well.  It's possible that the miter angle indicator is not placed correctly OR you have another misalignment problem, this time with the mount points between the sawframe and pivot point.  Shims can be placed in that location to get the blade to agree with the angle indicator setting.

The top of the bed also can be bowed up or down, which can cause problems when installing stock to cut (especially if the bed is bowed up).  Flat filing and checking with a straightedge are needed to correct that (unless you have a mill large enough to do the job!).


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## Surprman (Dec 31, 2020)

I bought one on Craigs list that came from someone who got fed-up with it not cutting and the blade coming off.  I checked the pulley with an indicator and both were great.  In the process I noticed that they painted the entire pulley wheels with black paint - even where the blade ran.   I used a razor blade to scrape off the paint where the blade runs and it has run great ever since.  (I second the suggestion to keep the blade tight)

Rick


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## GunsOfNavarone (Dec 31, 2020)

I just bought the same saw a couple weeks ago. I had a new blade for it before I did anything else. Starrett Bimetal. Anyway, putting a magnet on the blade with a scale (ruler) to make sure it was perpendicular helped a lot. The bearings it rolls on are a bit tricky, I found I wanted to have them tight so I could get the blade angled correctly. This is bad, you should be able to stop them turning when it's running by stopping it with you finger. Careful, that's dangerous. 
Have your belt on the loose side while trying it get it perpendicular, otherwise you're fighting its tension while trying to get the blade adjusted with the guides. There are a lot of great videos on Youtube on this machine and getting it cutting square. I'm very impressed on how it works now, but there was a lot of setup prior to actually using it.


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## homebrewed (Jan 1, 2021)

GunsOfNavarone said:


> I just bought the same saw a couple weeks ago. I had a new blade for it before I did anything else. Starrett Bimetal. Anyway, putting a magnet on the blade with a scale (ruler) to make sure it was perpendicular helped a lot. The bearings it rolls on are a bit tricky, I found I wanted to have them tight so I could get the blade angled correctly. This is bad, you should be able to stop them turning when it's running by stopping it with you finger. Careful, that's dangerous.
> Have your belt on the loose side while trying it get it perpendicular, otherwise you're fighting its tension while trying to get the blade adjusted with the guides. There are a lot of great videos on Youtube on this machine and getting it cutting square. I'm very impressed on how it works now, but there was a lot of setup prior to actually using it.


The recommended adjustment for the side bearings leaves a small gap on one side (the side _not_ responsible for correcting the twist).  This to avoid premature bearing failure when bits of swarf get between the blade and bearing.  This apparently can lead to early bearing failure due to the large transient forces that occur in this situation.

I have heard of a modification to the guide assembly that offsets the two bearings so both can be in contact with the blade without damaging them, but I haven't seen any specifics on exactly how it's done.  Basically the blade describes a small "S" trajectory around the bearings, and debris just pushes the blade a little ways away from the bearing without overloading the opposite one.  This may be how "real" bandsaws do it.  I'd think a bandsaw thus modified would cut a little straighter as well. 

Another possible solution would be to add a reliable brush setup to knock swarf off before it gets into the guides.  Note the "reliable" part .   There IS online info on this kind of mod.


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