# Thoughts on an Eisen 1236GH vs. a Grizzly G9036 (or KentKLS1340a)



## mksj (Jul 22, 2014)

Been using my Optimum BF-30 mill for a number of years and need to do some turning of small parts on a lathe. I will need to do some minimal threading at this point, but doubt I will ever need to do more than 56 TPI. Still, it would be nice not have to deal with change gears for the most part.  Looking for a new lathe,  preferably 12x36, but 13x30 or 13x40 would also be ok.  Don't want to deal with old US iron, that is too big and heavy for me to move. Also, having had other Chinese machinery (with a number of issues), quality of the lathe is my main concern. I would like to keep the budget without tooling under 6K. 

So I believe I have narrowed the field down to an Eisen 1236GH or a Grizzly G9036 (or what seems to be the equivalent in a Kent KLS1340a) and like to get some input on which one others would suggest. Interestingly the seems to be many similar versions of the G9036, the Kent KLS1340a has the same parts list, but they seem to differ on some of the specifications. The 1236GH is made in Taiwan and has a high level of fit and finish, but has an open gearbox and lacks the brake, coolant system and light on the G9036. Spec wise I have attached some information on the models under consideration. My understanding is that the quality on the G9036/KLS1340a is a bit better than the G4003G or G0750G (and similar clones), and the Eisen 1236GH is probably a step up from all of these. If I go with the 1236GH, I will probably put on a 2-3 HP 3 phase motor and a VFD. I hate pulley changes and the cost to convert to a VFD macine is quite nominal. So probably my two main questions are open vs. a closed gearbox and no brake vs. brake, are these features important enough to offset the quality difference between these two machines. Are there any other similar "quality" lathes in this category to consider. Vendor wise, I choose the machines above because of their specifications, supposed quality, they are in stock and their suppliers reply to inquiries and have stock replacement parts. 

Thanks in advance.


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## frostheave (Jul 22, 2014)

Just a heads up on gear changes for threading TPI.  For the Grizzly and Kent lathes, to get the complete range, three gear changes are required, 48, 46, and 52 tooth.  May not be a big deal, except perhaps for 13 TPI.  Below is from the Kent operation manual, which isn't the greatest quality.




For what it's worth, I wish I would have spent the extra cash and bought the Eisen 12x36 instead of the Grizzly G4003G.  In my experience the quality of the Taiwan machines vs Chinese is definitely worth the extra cost.  I have had no problems with the open QCGB on my G4003G and have never felt the need for a foot brake.  Plus, if you do upgrade to a VFD, you'll have the option of an electronic brake.

Bob


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## mksj (Jul 22, 2014)

Thank you for your comments and the additional information on the gear changes, although would probably be very uncommon for me to use those TPI ranges. The manuals are not the clearest (or not available for the Eisen). The quality issue is a big concern for me, as I had many issues with my Chinese Optimum mill, so hopefully with the lathe there will be less problems by going to a Taiwan product.


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## rmack898 (Jul 22, 2014)

I cant comment on the other lathes but I run a Kent 1340a at my day job and I'm not real impressed with it. I run old American iron at home but before I got the old iron I had a Smithy 1324 3in1 and I think that was a better lathe than the Kent 1340a that I run at work. I think it is just not rigid enough.


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## frostheave (Jul 22, 2014)

I feel your pain with the BF-30!  I just recently sold my Optimum BF-30 mill and replaced it with an Acer 9x49 E-Mill, which is a knee mill made in Taiwan.  While it is like comparing apples and oranges, what a difference there is with the Acer!  The fit and finish was great and it is incredibly quiet.  The loudest thing on the mill is the cooling fan on the motor.  My BF-30 was never right since new.  The gearbox was awfully loud and the motor driver was second rate causing a lot of cogging.  I would definitely recommend Taiwan if you can afford it.

Bob


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## chuckorlando (Jul 22, 2014)

We have a decently new kent at school. It's ok but the two sharps and turnado are more preferred by most. The slackers or new guys get stuck on the kent. It just aint smooth by any account. 

This could be student neglect though


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## zmotorsports (Jul 22, 2014)

If you are going to be doing a lot of threading I would recommend one with the Norton style quick change gearbox.  That is one of the things that drew me to the Precision Mathews PM1340GT especially the fact that this particular lathe is made in Taiwan. 

There are also a lot of people quite happy with the PM1236 which is very popular.  The 1236 is a Chinese manufactured lathe.  Last I heard he had a few 1236's left from the last shipment and a couple of the 1340GT's available but if you have to wait for the next delivery that could be quite a wait.

Mike.


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## Ray C (Jul 22, 2014)

zmotorsports said:


> If you are going to be doing a lot of threading I would recommend one with the Norton style quick change gearbox.  That is one of the things that drew me to the Precision Mathews PM1340GT especially the fact that this particular lathe is made in Taiwan.
> 
> There are also a lot of people quite happy with the PM1236 which is very popular.  The 1236 is a Chinese manufactured lathe.  Last I heard he had a few 1236's left from the last shipment and a couple of the 1340GT's available but if you have to wait for the next delivery that could be quite a wait.
> 
> Mike.



The 1236's are all gone.  There are 5 or 6, 1340GTs available.

Ray


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## dave2176 (Jul 22, 2014)

The PM1340GT would be a great choice. I would stick with the Norton gear box and TPI up to 112 since it's not just about threading but cutting speed as well. 

FWIW I have the Grizzly G4003G and for the past 14 months since I received it new it has been a great machine. Problem free and it does beautiful work. I expect many years of great service from it.

Dave


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## mksj (Jul 23, 2014)

OK, looks like the Eisen gets the nod and appreciate the comments.

As I mentioned, I would prefer a x30 or x36 centers for my needs and space. I considered the PM1340GT and briefly spoke to Matt several weeks ago at QMT about availability of a 1330GT or 1336GT version, which he said could be special ordered. I had some additional questions on the lathe and optional VFD. I sent several electronic inquiries to Matt and Ray, and never heard back. Granted it is a busy time, but it is a problem for me.  Although my planned budget allowed either machine, the 1236GH is ~$1250 less than a PM1340GT, leaving money for the VFD, collet changer/collets and quick change post. 

I guess I should eventually look for a small knee mill, but the BF-30 works OK for now.
Thank you.
Mark


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## frostheave (Jul 23, 2014)

Mark,

There's currently not much info available on that lathe.  If you do end up buying the Eisen 12x36, I would REALLY appreciate it if you could post pictures and a review once it arrives.  Good Luck!

Bob


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## nickmckinney (Jul 23, 2014)

I too looked at both the PM1340GT and the Eisen 1236, they seem to be sister machines from the same factory. I went through the same lathe hunt myself recently and posted what I found here:

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php?t=23470

There are pros and cons to every company selling machines IMHO. PM does not stock and its hard to reach Matt, Eisen who knows anything as I have never heard of anyone with one, Grizzly can cheap out on what you don't see, MSC charges double the rest, etc. Its frickin tough with lathes, I found bigger mills like 9x49 and 10x54 are a dime a dozen to find easily new and in stock everywhere, but new lathes are a biach.


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## Dog (Jul 23, 2014)

I looked at the Eisen 12x36 and one thing I did not like about it was you had to change a belt to get into the other speed range. (high or low speed range) And,  that belt was a pain to change. The PMgt machines may or may not be the same way, not sure about that. I much prefer just throwing a lever on the front of the headstock to get in high or low range.


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## mksj (Jul 24, 2014)

The 1236GH, PM1340GT and PM1236 require a belt change for the high low speed ranges. Yes would prefer this to be a gear change, but it comes down to cost/space of doing this by another set of gears. Wold not be required if one adds a VFD drive.


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## Ray C (Jul 24, 2014)

mksj said:


> The 1236GH, PM1340GT and PM1236 require a belt change for the high low speed ranges. Yes would prefer this to be a gear change, but it comes down to cost/space of doing this by another set of gears. Wold not be required if one adds a VFD drive.



Precisely.   I have a two step pulley arrangement on my 1236 and just leave it at the higher ratio because I almost always use carbide cutters which require higher SFMs.  When I need an intermediate speed not available on the dial, I twist the knob on the VFD.  -Problem solved.

FWIW, if you want a lathe fully adjustable through dial settings, be prepared to spend a good bit more money.


Ray


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## Dog (Jul 24, 2014)

Ray C said:


> Precisely.   I have a two step pulley arrangement on my 1236 and just leave it at the higher ratio because I almost always use carbide cutters which require higher SFMs.  When I need an intermediate speed not available on the dial, I twist the knob on the VFD.  -Problem solved.
> 
> FWIW, if you want a lathe fully adjustable through dial settings, be prepared to spend a good bit more money.
> 
> ...



If you don't mind going to the trouble of installing a VFD/3 phase motor that would definitely solve the issue, but I do believe there are quite a few low cost lathes that have the high and low ranges available through a lever on the front of the lathe. The Grizzly G4003 for instance.


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## Bob Korves (Jul 25, 2014)

I have a Kent KLS-1340a that was about 5 years old when I got it, but in new condition.  It was owned by a custom plumbing company.  It had very few fine brass chips on it when I got it, and the Cosmoline had never been removed.  It was grimy from sitting unused in a corner.  It came with all the accessories and two brazed carbide tools.  Only one had ever been used, incorrectly.  I assume that nobody really knew how to run it so it never got used.

I cleaned it up, oiled and adjusted everything, checked and tightened all the bolts, leveled it, and changed the oil.  I also bought a Phase II QC tool post to replace the stock 4 way.  The lathe works just fine, no complaints.  I did call Kent USA in Southern California a couple times and they were very helpful and knowledgeable about their product.  They have parts in stock for it.  They mostly sell big industrial machinery.

ALL these import lathes are not plug and play by any means, and I probably had 20 hours into getting mine ready for service.  That might sound like a lot, but it is far less than getting old American iron ready to go after decades of wear, abuse, and corrosion, unless you can find one that has been rehabbed by someone who knew what they were doing...
-Bob Korves


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## nickmckinney (Jul 25, 2014)

My cheap Enco 13x40 Chinese had the HI/LO on the front. I never knew these didn't, that would have been a disappointment to me to be honest. I switch HI/LO all the time with what I do.


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## mksj (Jul 25, 2014)

Bob Korves said:


> I did call Kent USA in Southern California a couple times and they were very helpful and knowledgeable about their product.  They have parts in stock for it.  They mostly sell big industrial machinery.



I did find this the case with Eisen, Kent and Grizzly (all who I have previously dealt with); they are very responsive/competent and all carry many parts in stock. I have given up on QMT, years ago I also tried to buy a mill and after months of waiting gave up. Tried again and nada.  Companies that sell big equipment, I think the profit margin and hassle factor with selling small lathes/machinery is probably more trouble than it is worth. So I sympathize with them for having to put up with us.

The discussion of high low gearing is a bit relative to the speed range and number of speeds. The 1236GH and 1340GT do have a high low range, but they are 2x3 (and another x2 with a pulley change) where something like the G4003G is a 3x3. But I agree that a belt change is a PTA, and what is worse, is that the pulley change speed ranges overlap by 50%. So you would need to do belt changes to step down or up to the next speed in the overlapping range. At a minimum, you would be better off with a 2 speed motor (much cheaper than a VFD set-up). 

The VFD motor set-up is not as simple as buying any 3 phase motor and slapping a VFD to it. As far as I have been informed, standard 3 phase motors are fine at 230V with a VFD (voltage spikes from a VFD are not an issue), but the horsepower is decreased with decreasing Hz/rpm. If you oversize the motor for low speed, you are going to break something at 60Hz(100% speed).  Ideally you need an inverter/vector motor which have a rated Hz, voltage and RPM, but when run with a VFD have a much higher Hz rating/max RPM. So something like a 2Hp Black Max Y540 Vector Duty motor has a rated RPM of 1160@60Hz, and will maintain 2Hp to RPM of 2315@120Hz and has a max RPM of 5400 (the Black Max Y551 Vector Duty motor has a rated RPM of 1750@60Hz, and maintains full Hp rating to 3500+). These type of inverter/vector duty motors also maintain very high torque ratings at lower speeds. So you have a very wide effective operating speed range, and probably why many factory lathes with VFDs have 2 geared manual speed ranges. Using a fan cooled non-inveter 3 phase motor, may result in poor performance at low speeds, overheat and stall out with overloading the VFD. So as Ray mentioned, you need to spend a bit to get something that will work correctly and is matched to your set-up.


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## Jawn (Sep 10, 2014)

Bump.

I've been watching this thread, I was wondering if you'd gotten a lathe... specifically I was hoping for impressions on the Eisen 1236GH, if you'd gone that route. Not sure I can justify spending that much starting out, but it does look like it ticks all the right boxes.


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## zmotorsports (Sep 10, 2014)

Jawn said:


> Bump.
> 
> I've been watching this thread, I was wondering if you'd gotten a lathe... specifically I was hoping for impressions on the Eisen 1236GH, if you'd gone that route. Not sure I can justify spending that much starting out, but it does look like it ticks all the right boxes.



I think Mark mentioned in another thread that he ended up purchasing a PM1340GT but I cannot remember which thread I read it on.


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## Jawn (Sep 10, 2014)

Now that you mention that, I see it in your thread about your PM1340GT. Nice looking machine you have there. 

I can't help but wonder if the Eisen and PM1340GT are actually from the same factory, just branded differently (obviously, the PM is a little larger, too).


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## mksj (Sep 10, 2014)

Yes! I ended up getting the 1340gt. Matt finally got back to me after several weeks. I ended up with a 3 phase version, and I am in the process of adding a Hitachi VFD. The total price with a DRO was close to enough to the Eisen, that it worked out for me. Overall the quality of the machine and the accesories is impressive. The manual includes several versions, including a 1236, so it probably comes down to what the vendor orders, accessories and support post purchase.  At least for me, the improved workmanship or quality is worth the price difference. A less expensive Chinese version will probably give similar end results, put the user experience is different YMMV.


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## wrmiller (Sep 12, 2014)

Cannot speak to the comparison, but the Eisen is definitely on my radar. Very nice looking machine. I too noticed the similarity to the PM 1340GT, which is one of the reasons I'm attracted to it.  

Bill


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