# Help ID Enco mill drill



## seabeeman (Jan 25, 2019)

Hello all, new guy looking for some help.

The school I teach at is getting a new CNC Haas for the FabLab, so I'm able to pick up the pictured Enco mill for $100-200.  This will hopefully be followed closely by the old south bend lathe!  I'm hoping you all might be able to help me ID it.  The date tag and motor say 1982, but the model number is rubbed off.  It's a 1hp, dual voltage round column Taiwan mill.  This would be for light repair or fab work and gunsmithing.  Any idea the collet on these and are there manuals or tutorials out there?  

After several hours of Googling I've found about a billion people that say they aren't worth the space they take up or hassle of moving, and then guys who actually use them they work fine.


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## mmcmdl (Jan 25, 2019)

For 1-2 hundred ? Jump on it . If it runs , you have a mill !


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## darkzero (Jan 26, 2019)

Looks like an Enco 508VS model 105-1530 mill drill or close to it. Based of the RF30 style round column mill but with variable speed.

Round column mills can be annoying since you loose X-Y positioning whenever you move the Z axis but it just takes some getting used to. RF25/30 style mills have been around forever. Might have issues finding parts for the variable speed if needed but other parts shouldn't be an issue.

If the variable speed works fine or doesn't have major problems, $100- $200 is worth it.


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## C-Bag (Jan 26, 2019)

While this might be based on the RF30, it's a smaller lighter version. And as such you just need to work in its envelope. 

The old adage of a good craftsman never blames his tools applies big time to mill/drills. I recently saw a thread here where a member made a running model of a Ford 300-6 with a mill/drill all manual, no CNC. Amazing and inspiring. I too see plenty of folks bagging on mill/drills but few owned or ran them. There's a LOT of us on here who have and use them and get by just fine. 

The loss of orientation if you have to lift the head is something that can be avoided by careful planning ahead. I don't use my drill chuck unless I'm going to be using my boring head to keep within the same distance to the table. I have a pretty complete set of R8 collets and short screw length drills. So the length of my end mills and drills is the same so I don't have to raise the head. It also helps tons to put even a cheap 3axis DRO so it's easy to move over to clear the vise and mount a new tool and go back to exactly where you were. One time was I not able to keep to this and used a laser pointer mounted to the head and shoot across the shop to a plumb line on the opposite wall. Raise the head and sight on the plumb line and tighten back down and as far as I could tell was still dead on.


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## seabeeman (Jan 26, 2019)

Thanks for the help everybody, that is huge to know what I'm getting into.  When we're back at work Monday, I need to sort through the box and see what else is there for tool holders and tooling I can have.  He is getting a Haas TM1-P and ER32 collet system, so I should be getting a pretty complete collet set, and I'm guessing some of the old tooling.  

Is this an R8 collet system?  Three is a drill chuck in there now, any suggestions on things I should make sure I try and find besides collets?


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## seabeeman (Jan 26, 2019)

I can find generic manuals for these but have yet to find anything on the variable speed.  I know finding a specific manual for this is a long shot, but has anybody seen much out there on the variable speed part of the system?


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## C-Bag (Jan 26, 2019)

This is a variant I've never seen, and I've seen a bunch. I've seen some drill presses with something similar. For the record if it works good and is robust there's a bunch of us RF30 users who wish we had something like it. It's not much fun changing the belts to change speed. Its why a lot of users go to 3ph motor with a VFD or a DC setup with a treadmill motor. It would help I think if you could find out who the specific manufacturer was.


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## seabeeman (Jan 28, 2019)

I got a chance to look at it closer today and the variable speed works great.  The belt is very nearly new and is very large, the size of a large snowmobile belt.  My only concern is the quill has no spring tension to return it back upwards and the fine vertical feed wheel doesn't do anything.  However, the spindle feed shaft is pullet out further than it should be and I can see the teeth where the fine wheel should be engaging . The cap on the left side of the machine appears to be pushed out too far, so most likely I just need disassemble and put it back together.  

It has a couple R8 collets with it, a 1" end mill holder, a face mill, and a chuck on an R8 holder, as well as a spare chuck.  When the new machine gets here Thursday I'll know if I get any of the hold downs and he may send some of the old tooling my way as he gets more, but I'm not counting on any of that.  

We settled on $250 with those R8 stuff and the nice vice that is attached.  Now I just need to fine a 4' x 4' space in my garage and get it home!


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## C-Bag (Jan 28, 2019)

On the RF30 on the opposite side from drill downfeed handle there is a round box with a coiled spring in it. You should see the end of the spring sticking out. There should be a bolt that holds that round case in place. Take it loose and rotate it against spring pressure and tighten. Check the drill press down feed and see if it springs back. Also on the RF there is a knob in the middle of the drill handles tight the drill handle only works, loose the fine feed works. I could have this backwards as I just use the fine feed. Yours doesn't seem to have the knob so I wonder if you push the handle in?


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## seabeeman (Jan 28, 2019)

I saw that and was fiddling with it.  I figured it was a coil spring that had the stop broken off or out of place, I'm sure I can fix that.

I'll monkey with the feed handles but I'm sure it is something I'm doing wrong or just out of adjustment.


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## mikey (Jan 28, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> Also on the RF there is a knob in the middle of the drill handles tight the drill handle only works, loose the fine feed works. I could have this *backwards* as I just use the fine feed. Yours doesn't seem to have the knob so I wonder if you push the handle in?



Yeah, that's backwards but as you noted, this one doesn't have the knob in the middle of the downfeed to engage the fine feed wheel. I'm wondering if it has power downfeed? Cannot tell with the pics available but if it is a power downfeed then there will be a motor behind that fine feed wheel and the handles will be able to move in and out. I don't see how those handles can move toward or away from the head so it probably isn't a powered feed.

This looks like a Taiwanese Rong Fu but it is not an RF-30/31; an early predecessor of an RF-45?. There are some significant differences from the RF-30/31, notably the Reeve's drive, the angled handle to raise and lower the head, the lack of the fine feed engagement knob, the outboard depth control and the different appearance of the quill spring housing. 

Regardless, it should be straightforward to take it apart for servicing. Parts might be a challenge, though.


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## mmcmdl (Jan 28, 2019)

It's no Bridgeport but it IS a mill . congrats on  getting it , now find that space in the garage ?


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## T Bredehoft (Jan 28, 2019)

I can't remember where I saw it, but one owner had applied a 1" dia. rod mounted vertically behind the head, secured top and bottom, with a roller ball bearing mounted on the head, to keep it from rotating when not secured. It wouldn't loose X and Y when raised or lowered.


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## mikey (Jan 28, 2019)

I think that was Cuppa' Joe on Youtube. A more recent iteration is from Bruce Wittingham called the True Line 88. I have one but haven't had time to install and review it. I will, though.


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## Canuck75 (Jan 28, 2019)

Seebeeman,-

I have a King PDM 30 (RF31 style) mill and use it all the time. Made lots of mods, including one to keep the X (see my post "Keeping the X on a Round Column Mill") which might be of interest. Meets all my needs as a hobbyist so am very happy with it.
Could you post pictures of the variable speed mechanism if you get it. Would be a great mod to attempt.


Thanks


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## seabeeman (Jan 31, 2019)

Progress!  We picked the coldest day in a decade to move this thing, but it's done.  I had -40F at the house this morning without wind chill and it was about -20 when we were actually loading/unloading it, but it is in my garage!  I've been reading everything I can on this and am already dreaming of DRO's, power X feeds, and a True-Line 88 system.

Progress thus far has been cleaning it up and figuring out the fine down feed spring and fine feed wheel, which I have done.  I'm new to this but can't find pictures of anything like this online. A round column mill, not a drill press, with a variable speed head and the down feed setup it has.

The head looks kind of like a snowmobile clutch system with a two speed pulley off the motor hooked up to a large belt and an adjustable sheave on the quill.  Turning that wheel pulls a wedge in on top of the sheave, compressing it and increasing it's diameter.  Looks like a very tough system and I would think a snowmobile belt could be found to replace the one on there if needed.  

As to the fine down feed wheel, the pieces were just stuck.  Inboard of the handle is a large threaded "collar" that bears on a keyed, toothed collar.  When the first piece is threaded in, away from the handle, it pushed that toothed collar into the worm wheel driven by the worm gear on the fine adjustment handle.  Turn that first collar back out and it disengages.  Problem number 1 down.

I also figured out the down feed spring.  C-Bag mentioned the coiled spring in the round cover, but this one doesn't have provisions for a bolt.  Rather, there is a plate behind that screwed to the casting with 4 tabs punched in, creating for inward notches.  That coil spring housing has 2 roll pins sticking out of it that engage those tabs.  Both roll pins were broken off.  A trip to the hardware store and the vertical feed should be back in business.  

Still no luck figuring out an exact make and model, but I noticed the tag says "Fing Industries Inc" and it is made in Taiwan.  It's also a 1HP 110/220V model which I can't find referenced anywhere either.  Everything else seems to be 1.5HP at a minimum.


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## C-Bag (Jan 31, 2019)

Thanks for the pics. Good sleuthing out the functions.

I'm going to be surprised if you find an exact manual or parts list. I don't think there is a lot of these around.


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## mikey (Feb 1, 2019)

Glad you're getting this sorted. I'm with C-bag on this one - it is going to be interesting finding a parts breakdown for that mill.

One option to explore might be to give MSC a call. Since Enco sold the mill, they may have a pdf parts manual available.

In the very near future, I suggest you check the spindle for wear and concentricity. If the run out is more than a few tenths then it may be the bearings, the drive sleeve or the spindle itself. If you can identify the part numbers then they might have a new spindle and drive sleeve lying around that you can buy - fingers crossed.


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