# Yes or no on this milling machine?



## Jason280 (Apr 21, 2019)

I've been looking for a lathe, and came across a gentleman with a large South Bend lathe and Induma milling machine.  It looks similar to a Bridgeport J head, and uses R8 collets.  Best I can tell, Induma is an Italian import, so picking up parts would be next to impossible. 

Its a 3 phase machine, which isn't an issue as he can include a 3 phase rotary converter.  Bearings sound good when running, and the table moves on all axis without too much trouble.  It does have a decent amount of backlash, so I am not too sure how easy it would be to correct.  The big issue I have noticed is switching the speeds in the head.  I have no idea the correct procedure for switching speeds, but it does have a lever just above the head and on the side for speed adjustment.  Of course, I have no idea if its a mechanical issue with something broken, or if its just user/operator error.  

It also has a DRO set up, but does not read when moving X or Y...you can zero it, but that is about it.  Is this typically just a scale issue on the table?  

The machine also has power feed on the X axis, which is hit or miss....sounds like an occasional engagement problem, not sure if this is something easy to fix or not.  

I am not too concerned with the DRO or powerfeed, my main concern is the speed adjustment in the head.  I know most of this screams "run away", but price is right with the converter (under $1k).  Question is, am I potentially jumping into a machine that will be too much of a headache?


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## Jason280 (Apr 21, 2019)




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## Jason280 (Apr 21, 2019)




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## Jason280 (Apr 21, 2019)




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## bob308 (Apr 21, 2019)

you shift speeds by moving the belt to different pulleys. it is common way to do it. as for price I would have it home by now.


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## kd4gij (Apr 21, 2019)

The speed controls look the same as BP 1j head.


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## Cadillac (Apr 21, 2019)

It looks like a repop of a Bridgeport. I would suggest downloading the manual for a bp to learn speed adjustment. It’s easy just a sequence to get it right. If not you can get some weird noises when trying to start. Backlash in screws might be just a adjustment on the nuts or they may be able 
to be split like on a BP. Head looks like a step pulley so less likely to have problems there. Run it through it’s gears if all sounds well not much to go wrong.


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## Jason280 (Apr 21, 2019)

I would just manually switch between pulleys in the head to change speeds?


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## Cooter Brown (Apr 21, 2019)

jump on it fast!


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## Cadillac (Apr 21, 2019)

Jason280 said:


> I would just manually switch between pulleys in the head to change speeds?


Yes and no
 On that machine you have a high and a low gear or sometimes called backgear. 
 Within high and low gear you have four different pulley speeds you can go off. So you have eight speeds four in high and four in low. 
High gear is top lever forward spin spindle to engage gear and switch lever on right side of head to the in position I think. Low speed top lever is to the side move spindle while moving lever on side of head to out position. You also have to change direction of spindle rotation for high gear. Usually the plate on front of head of BP gives speeds and operation of high and low gear.


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## Robo_Pi (Apr 21, 2019)

Jason280 said:


> but price is right with the converter (under $1k).



I agree.  The fact that it actually comes with a rotary converter is a plus that I wouldn't be able to pass by at that price.



Jason280 said:


> Question is, am I potentially jumping into a machine that will be too much of a headache?



That's really only a question each individual can answer for themselves.  For me personally I don't have any problems with any of the issues you've mentioned thus far.   I personally don't even care about the DRO.   I'd buy it even if it didn't have the DRO.  If the DRO can be made to work that's just icing on the cake for me.    The other two issues you've mentioned with the power feed control and changing head speeds do not concern me at all, I feel that I could deal with both of those issues fairly easily. 

So it's really up to what the individual considers to be a headache. 

If I was in the market for a mill this size, I wouldn't hesitate.  I'd just pick it up straight away,.  I've been looking for over a year now for a mill about that size and I find that they are difficult to find for under a grand even with no DRO, no table feed, and certainly no rotary converter.

If I was presented with what you've shown here I'd just grab it before somone else does.  But again, that's just me.  One man's gold is another man's junk, etc.


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## Cadillac (Apr 21, 2019)

As for the dro thescales could’ve out of range and just need adjustments.


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## Jason280 (Apr 21, 2019)

The DRO and power feed don't really concern me, I am mainly concerned with potential damage in the head.  I know when we tried it, it seemed to be on the lowest speed.


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## Jason280 (Apr 21, 2019)

This video seems to make sense...


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## Robo_Pi (Apr 21, 2019)

Is there a reason you think there might be a problem changing speeds?

Edited to add: 

It's just a matter of understanding how it works, as described in the video.   It's not hard to do once you understand how it works.


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## Jason280 (Apr 21, 2019)

The current owner initially told me of the speed change issue, and he wasn't able to get the speeds changed via the back gear while I was there.  That being said, I'm honestly not sure if he was doing it correctly or not.


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## Cooter Brown (Apr 21, 2019)

If you don't have a machine buy it, this machine comes with more than mine did and it comes ready to run


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## Jason280 (Apr 21, 2019)

I actually have a small Grizzly G0704, but have been looking for a larger Bridgeport style mill.  I've only had the Grizzly a couple of months, but have already seen where having a larger mill would be more useful.


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## Robo_Pi (Apr 21, 2019)

Jason280 said:


> The current owner initially told me of the speed change issue, and he wasn't able to get the speeds changed via the back gear while I was there.  That being said, I'm honestly not sure if he was doing it correctly or not.



I see.   It is possible that there could be something broken in the back gear mechanism.   Again, even if that were the case it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.  Absolute worse case scenario is that you might need to make a replacement part or gear for it to repair the back gear functionality.  

It would be nice if you could discover the source of the problem before you buy.   But I have to say, that at the price you're getting it for even if  you had to do without back gears it would probably still be worth it.  But I have a hard time imagining that it would be something that couldn't be repaired.  That style of machine is pretty basic mechanics.


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## Shootymacshootface (Apr 21, 2019)

A lot of Bridgeport parts will fit a Bridgeport clone.


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## FOMOGO (Apr 21, 2019)

I'll add my vote to get it now. You have a mill already, so you have time to go thru this one, an make sure everything is up to snuff. At under a grand, even if you find you are in over your head, you could still get your money out and then some. Could very well be parts from Bridgeport and other re-pop parts suppliers may well fit this Italian version. Mike


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## Dabbler (Apr 21, 2019)

At 2K it still would be a bargain.  - in case anyone might disagree:  a 3phase mill with a phase converter?  really?  I paid over 3500 canadian pesos for a 9X49 and ti was the best deal I could get.  - 3phase and no converter.  It would have to be in really rough shape not to buy it.


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## Jason280 (Apr 21, 2019)

Shootymacshootface said:


> A lot of Bridgeport parts will fit a Bridgeport clone.



Question is, how much of a clone is it??


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## benmychree (Apr 21, 2019)

I had one of those in my shop, it is still there giving good service; they are NOT a BP clone, everything about them is a bit larger and heavier than a BP, I doubt that the speed change is a big deal, sometimes if the belt is tensioned too tightly, the high speed clutch is difficult to engage, a little tapping down on the lever operated cam on top will allow the dog clutch to engage, having already disengaging the back gear lever.  I was able to buy spare parts for min, but that was 15 or so years ago, the company's name I think was DUMA.  I do not think it had adjustable nuts for the feeds.


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## cathead (Apr 22, 2019)

It's what's called a fixer-upper in the auto world.  It would be a good deal for a person with both mechanical and electronic savvy.
Personally I like the simplicity of step pulley machines as they are less problematic than variable speed units.  A variable frequency
drive would be a good add on to make life easier as one could leave the speed adjustment alone for the most part and
seldom have to use back gear unless drilling big holes.  The back gear function is a simple belt pulley reduction so not too
difficult to deal with mechanically.  One could clean it up and give it some TLC and certainly not lose any money on it, 
especially if the vise and collets are included in the deal.


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## Cooter Brown (Apr 22, 2019)

Your next post better be a picture of this machine in your shop!


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## Suzuki4evr (Apr 22, 2019)

If I didn't live on the other side of the world, I would have had it in my shop by now........if I had the cash.


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## bpimm (Apr 22, 2019)

When I got my BP clone I couldn't shift into backgear, turns out it sat for several years and a liberal application of oil to the moving parts got it going again.


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## Cooter Brown (Apr 22, 2019)

Quick fix for backgear


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## ThinWoodsman (Apr 22, 2019)

Jason280 said:


> The current owner initially told me of the speed change issue, and he wasn't able to get the speeds changed via the back gear while I was there.  That being said, I'm honestly not sure if he was doing it correctly or not.



It sounds like you're talking about switching from high to low (back) gear, not changing speeds via the pulleys.

This is a common problem on Bridgeports, but usually problem is not being able to switch from high gear to low gear. My BP J-head had the problem of not switching from low gear to high gear, which sounds the same as this. I did a bit of poking around in the head and nothing seems broken - I think some debris settled during the move. I can switch to high speed by whacking the top with a deadblow after changing the two gear levers. One of these days I'll take the head apart and clean it; just wanted to point out that your (sorry, assuming you have bought it already) mill might have the same problem, and if it does it's not all that bad to deal with.


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## 682bear (Apr 22, 2019)

Hey, I'm in Georgia also! I am available to go buy it out from under you tomorrow, if you will let me know where it is located!


Just kidding... I have a mill... 

Just go get it... rationalize later!

-Bear


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## markba633csi (Apr 22, 2019)

Looks like a great deal to me


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## JimDawson (Apr 22, 2019)

I would drag it home for that price.  The speed change mechanism is pretty simple, maybe just needs to be cleaned and lubed.  Induma's are pretty nice machines.


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## Robo_Pi (Apr 22, 2019)

682bear said:


> Just go get it... rationalize later!



Exactly!


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## derf (Apr 22, 2019)

For me, that would be a HARD NO! Induma mills have garnered the name "side winders", because the cross feed screw is not centered on the knee. This may not seem out of the ordinary for some, but it does make a difference when operating. The table will develop a "lag" on one side, resulting in milling out of square. No matter how tight the gibs are, it still does it.
I used one of these years ago right beside a clapped out Bridgeport, I preferred the clapped out Bridgeport....at least I could get parts squared up with it.


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## pontiac428 (Apr 22, 2019)

Derf pointed out an important thing to watch out for, but if you and I ended up at this guy's shop, both of us with cash in hand, I'd break your arm and leave you out in the parking lot before you got the chance to haul it away.  The fact the RPC comes with it for that price is mind blowing.  So let's see the pics of what you brought home!


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## Cadillac (Apr 22, 2019)

Here’s the directions off a BP which it looks like you have the same levers. The one on side of machine is what raises the bullgear so that what you wanna make sure is stroking,and that the top bearing Assy drops when moving top lever. Follow the tag and you should get both speeds.


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## jcp (Apr 22, 2019)

I'm with Ben on this one. I worked in a shop with an Induma and a nearly new Bridgeport. I went to the Induma every time. It is a heavier duty machine.
Did not experience the "out of square" situation mentioned in post #35.


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## Dabbler (Apr 22, 2019)

I only have a little experience with Induma machines, at the shop where I worked in IT.  Frankly, it was far better built then the Excello or the 'real' Bridgeport.  I'm sorry you had that terrible experience, derf.  The head toolmaker would use the Induma, or wait for it to be available.  He'd only use the Excello if the Induma wasn't going to be available for days...   He had the 'out of square' problem on the Bridgeport, which was all clapped out, so he refused to work on it.

The moral of the story is that a clapped out machine is a clapped out machine, no matter what brand.  In this case the RPC is worth about $600 of the price.


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## Robo_Pi (Apr 22, 2019)

I agree with so many others.  The mill alone would be worth the asking price.  The fact that it comes with the RPC at no extra charge makes it a slam dunk for me.


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## Jason280 (Apr 22, 2019)

Thanks, I'm going back over Wednesday to hopefully pick it up.  

Short of setting up a piece and cutting, how would I ensure its not out of square on the cross feed?  Also, what is the best way to lift & move the machine?  I have a 43hp tractor with front end loader, but not sure how much it would weigh.


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## jcp (Apr 23, 2019)

I don't think a 43 hp tractor is going to be enough to do much with the Induma in one piece.


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## Scruffy (Apr 23, 2019)

You have to remember that a tractor loader is not a fork lift. If loader does’nt have automatic bucket- fork leveling it makes moving machines very stressful.
I unloaded a 1500 lb surface grinder yesterday. Very very stressful.
Also loader controls seem to have a all or nothing feel with a lot of weight on the forks
Thanks ron. I was using a 35 hp jd with a backhoe on back for weight  be careful


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## Dabbler (Apr 23, 2019)

If that's the 10X50 model, it should weigh between 3200 and 3500 lbs.  We had the smaller model so it weighed in at around 2600 lbs.


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## Janderso (Apr 23, 2019)

How to lift/move a big knee mill?
We just moved my Sharp TMV. It's a full size knee mill. 3,300# 10X50 table.
There is a threaded hole in the ram for an eye bolt. Lower the knee all the way, Lock everything down (ram, table,lower the head, knee etc.)
If you can bolt the base to 4x4's and use a pallet jack or forklift, that is a great way to move them on smooth cement.
you can lift from the bottom of the ram, just add 2x4's to protect the surfaces.
be careful, go slow and easy.
LOTS of help on this forum.


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## Shootymacshootface (Apr 23, 2019)

Plan on 3000+ lbs and be very careful if you use forks. A co-worker recently dumped a nice Bridgeport on its face using forks. He slid the mill off of the forks and when it got to the tips they acted like springs and fliped the mill.


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## Cadillac (Apr 23, 2019)

When I moved mine 10yrs ago I used 6  1” solid round bars about 100’ to a flatbed tow truck. Once to the bed he winched it up while I moved the bars up the incline of the bed. It was work but it WORKED. Reversed the process when to house moving pipes while bed was raised with winch controlling movement. 
 Only advice would be tilt the head keep the mass low. Think about all you’re moves go slow and foremost be safe it is dangerous and accidents unfortunately happen to some.


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## Dabbler (Apr 23, 2019)

BTW never NEVER use the eye in the ram to lift the machine.  I have heard this from multiple riggers.  The eyebolt is for lifting the RAM up for maintenance on the head... 

Best is to put it on plywood on a pallet jack.  the wood acts as a friction surface.  steel on steel is a real 'no-no'...

I have my new mill on 2X4s on my pallet jack right now.I can move it down a 20 degree angle safely that way.


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## Cooter Brown (Apr 23, 2019)

.


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## Jason280 (Apr 23, 2019)

> If that's the 10X50 model, it should weigh between 3200 and 3500 lbs



I don't *think* its a 10x50, I don't remember the table being quite that big.  Either way, moving it may be more of a job than I planned...may need to simply go ahead and look at possibly renting a forklift.


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## kd4gij (Apr 23, 2019)




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## Splat (Apr 23, 2019)

Sorry, I couldn't resist but I just bought it tonight.































Just kidding. Go buy the darn thing already!


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## Jason280 (Apr 24, 2019)

Went back and looked at the Induma again today, and it has a 40-42" table.  We played around with the back gear, and never could get it to engage.  I'm not sure what the issue is, but it doesn't seem like the lever just above the head (beside the brake lever) is really doing anything.  You can pivot it from side to side, but I can't tell that it is changing anything.


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## matthewsx (Apr 24, 2019)

So, did you buy it?


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## Jason280 (Apr 24, 2019)

Still discussing it with the seller, and still trying to figure out how to move it...I can't envision any scenario where I don't end up renting a forklift.


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## FOMOGO (Apr 24, 2019)

Pretty sure lever on top with the cam lock is the spindle brake. Probably needs a new lining. Mike


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## Dabbler (Apr 24, 2019)

You can rent a gantry crane (2 ton) to put it on the trailer and take it off.  A pallet jack can be used to put it where you want.  Lever/blocking will get it off the pallet jack.  Done it 5 times.


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## Dabbler (Apr 24, 2019)

first - the back gear is no big deal.  I rebuilt mine in about 2 hours, including taking it off and putting it back on again.

(okay, the jig I built to handle the head took a couple of hours to build also... truth be told)

Mine works like a charm now.... but  you simply don't need it.  I took out my back gear recently (long story)  but my VFD handles ultra low speeds better than a back gear.    _Sorry you have a phase converter - my bad!  _ You can rebuild the back gear fairly easily, and all it really needs is a clean and lube.  It relies on gravity to engage, so when it's dirty, it won't engage easily until it is clean and greased.

Now a lower rebuild - I haven't tried it, but I need to!

[edit]  From your pictures, it looks dirty and dry.  that's likely to indicate a bunch of dirty dry grease is preventing the thing from engaging.


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## Shootymacshootface (Apr 25, 2019)

I moved my 3000lb mill with my dump trailer. I dragged the mill by the base across the guys garage to his driveway. Backed up my trailer to the mill with it tilted up. After removing anything vulnerable to damage, I ratchet strapped it to the trailer bed on to a bed of tires covered with moving blankets. Then I had to use a come-along to lower the bed. To unload I did reverse, making sure the edge of the base was in my garage so that I could push it in with my tractor.  It was a lot of work, but well worth it.
Just some food for thought.
John


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## Jason280 (Apr 25, 2019)

Let's say worst case I can't get the rotary converter, and the back gear assembly is damaged beyond repair....how much would it cost to simply convert it over to a VFD?


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## Dabbler (Apr 25, 2019)

I paid $300 US for a TECO 2HP VFD and 40$ for the box.  $25 for msc wiring and plug.  My original motor goes to about 70 RPM with decent torque.  The two speed was wired for 1725 RPMs and the belts were set for medium speed.


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## Cooter Brown (Apr 25, 2019)

I cant get my back gear working ether but i still have a bridgeport.... A VFD will cost anywhere from $150 - $350 but you dont need a VFD to run this machine you could a get a static phase converter for $60.... I have 5 machine that run on static phase converters....









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The back gear is engaged by a lovejoy style coupler that moves up and down with the lever on top. It can be rebuilt completely....


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## projectnut (Apr 25, 2019)

Jason280 said:


> Went back and looked at the Induma again today, and it has a 40-42" table.  We played around with the back gear, and never could get it to engage.  I'm not sure what the issue is, but it doesn't seem like the lever just above the head (beside the brake lever) is really doing anything.  You can pivot it from side to side, but I can't tell that it is changing anything.




This may seem like an amazing grasp of the obvious, but are you using the proper lever to engage/disengage the back gear?  It's the one on the right side of the head below the label that says Fast  Slow.  If the head hasn't been moved in a while the grease on the slides has probably hardened to the point it will be difficult to get it to move.  Often times I have to set the gear change lever on my Bridgeport to the neutral position and rotate the quill by hand to get the gears to engage properly.  Bridgeport recommends greasing the slides once every 6 months.  They also recommend using the Fast  Slow lever to change head position while lubing the slides.

Also keep in mind when changing from low to high speed the quill will rotate in the opposite direction.  With the back gear engaged and the speed switch in the low speed position the quill will rotate clockwise.  When the back gear is disengaged the quill will rotate counter clockwise with the switch in the low speed position.

Here's a link to a Bridgeport manual with a similar style head.  Section 6.3 shows all the head parts including the back gear and speed change levers.  It's possible the linkage on your machine is either disconnected or broken.



			http://www.truetex.com/bridgeport-manual.pdf


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## Jason280 (Apr 25, 2019)

We tried most of what you suggested, but honestly have no idea if I was doing any of it correctly.

If I did go with a VFD, will it still maintain the same amount of torque potential as using the back gear....say, using larger diameter twist drills?


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## ThinWoodsman (Apr 25, 2019)

I misunderstood the earlier description, thought the mill was stuck *in* backgear. The "not being able to get into backgear" is a very common problem and not difficult to fix. You'll probably have to take the head apart and clean it, but there are a couple of bolts you can monkey with first. Search around for "bridgeport backe gear will not engage" and you'll see a few discussions that will let you know what you're in for.

Pretty sure projectnut covered the mechanism, but just to be clear, there are two states: the lever on top of the spindle (i.e. on the cam around the drawbar) forward and backgear toggle (on the right side of the head) is OUT, the lever on top of the spindle back (pointing right) and backgear toggle is IN.

VFDs are cheap. I went with a phase converter because I had concerns about losing torque at low speeds. If you're going after the best finish possible, you'll want to adjust the speed with far more control than the pulleys will get you, so a VFD would be a good idea. When I priced them it was as Dabbler said, 150 to 300.


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## kb58 (Apr 25, 2019)

Others beat me to it, but yeah, a VFD is around $200-300.


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## Robo_Pi (Apr 25, 2019)

Jason280 said:


> Let's say worst case I can't get the rotary converter, and the back gear assembly is damaged beyond repair....how much would it cost to simply convert it over to a VFD?



IMHO, without the rotary converter you've just stepped down from a "Great Deal" to basically buying if for pretty much what it's worth.   

Not saying that's a no-go.  But the fact that it came with a rotary converter was a large part of what got me all excited about it.   A VFD isn't cheap.  In fact, personally if there's no rotary converter I would just swap the motor out for a 110/220 volt single phase motor.  Assuming I still bought it. 

What happened?  Was it a misunderstanding?  I confess that sounded too good to be true. 

Without the rotary phase converter it's "Just another mill".    I've seen plenty of mills around that size for that price, so while it's going for what it's worth, IMHO, it's no longer a super deal without the RPC. 

But like I say, that sounded too good to be true from the get go.


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## Dabbler (Apr 25, 2019)

So on my mill at 70 RPM I have about 40% of the torque it is on high.  If I were to shift the belts ( a normal and easy operation) I'd get about half of that back.  No it isn't the monster torque you'll get in back gear, but I'd have no problem drilling a 1.2" hole with a twist drill, or a using a 3" annular cutter.  The torque on mine is adequate.

I'm not one to 'push' my machines:  I don't have the spare change to replace them. 

There is always the option of finding a  single phase 2HP flange mount motor to replace it - often they are cheaper than a VFD.  

*What I'm saying is that if it is a machine that you like, have the space for, and you can afford it - then the rest are fairly solvable issues.*


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## Splat (Apr 25, 2019)

Without the p/c I'd talk down the price.


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## Jason280 (Apr 25, 2019)

I can still get the mill with the rotary converter, but he's wanting me to buy a large South Bend 16" lathe with 6-7' bed as well.  He has both running off the converter, and has decided he doesn't really want to get rid of one without the other.


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## FOMOGO (Apr 25, 2019)

Buy them both and sell the lathe if you don't want it. That way you may well end up with an even better deal. Of course we are all going to push you to indulge in as much iron as possible. Mike


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## Robo_Pi (Apr 25, 2019)

I agree with FOMOGO, if you can afford it buy both and then sell the lathe if you want.  How much more is he asking for the lathe?  You can hardly go wrong with a South Bend.


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## MrWhoopee (Apr 25, 2019)

How much is the package price?

Here's my take on the RPC. Fred gave me my mill and lathe, with the promise that he would give me the 7.5 hp RPC when he had sold all the rest of the 3 ph equipment. I got a static converter like the one Cooter Brown referred to in post #63 and used it until Fred gave me the RPC. Now that I have the RPC all wired up and working, I'm seriously thinking about going back to the static converter. The continuous whine of the RPC motor and the fact that it draws almost 40 amps of 220v (it overheated the breaker after 4-5 hrs of operation) make the static converter very attractive. Yes, you do suffer about 1/3 power reduction with the static, but I haven't noticed it.

So, if you don't need or can't use the lathe, buy the package, sell the lathe and the RPC together. The lathe will be an easier sale with the RPC.


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## Robo_Pi (Apr 25, 2019)

MrWhoopee said:


> So, if you don't need or can't use the lathe, buy the package, sell the lathe and the RPC together. The lathe will be an easier sale with the RPC.



That's true too.  There are a lot of options on this deal. 

If it were me, I'd buy the whole package,  I'd keep the lathe and the mill.   Take the 3ph motors off both of them and sell the RPC with the 2 3ph motors and just replace the motors with 110/220 volt standard motors.   No need for either a RPC or a VFD.   Both the lathe and the mill already have mechanical speed controls built-in.   I personally don't mind changing belts on pulleys at all.  In fact, I actually prefer the purely mechanical approach. 

To each their own.  

There are a lot of possibilities in this package.    Still waiting on the total package price though.  Also what all comes with the lathe? Does it have multiple chucks 3 and 4 jaw?  Collets?  Taper attachment?  Center rest? Etc.  Just curious what all comes with it.   I'm a big fan of South Bend lathes so I'd be really excited to find a deal like you are currently considering.


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## pontiac428 (Apr 25, 2019)

I could certainly find a use for a 16" lathe, but I understand why it would be intimidating to find the space, power, and moving equipment to deal with it.  It really changes the scope of your machinery search to stumble into a deal like that.  If the lathe price were proportional to the mill price, it would also be hard to walk away from.


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## Robo_Pi (Apr 25, 2019)

pontiac428 said:


> If the lathe price were proportional to the mill price, it would also be hard to walk away from.



I'm thinking the same thing.  A grand for the lathe sounds about right too. 

So,.....   *Don't just stand there,....

Buy it! Buy it! Buy it!
then,
Move it! Move it! Move it!
then,*
*Clean it! Clean it! Clean it!*
*then,*
*Repair it! Repair it! Repair it!*
*then,*
*Sell it! Sell it! Sell it!*

And don't forget to post photos of the whole process.  Or better yet start a YouTube machine shop channel.  

Owl subscribe!


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## Jason280 (Apr 27, 2019)

Crazy as it sounds, I may end up passing on the deal.  The seller is asking $2k for the lathe, mill, and 3 phase converter, which isn't a bad deal....except I have found another potential deal on an Atlas 12x36, LeBlond Regal 17", and Enco variable speed milling machine with 3 phase converter. 
































































The LeBlond is in much better condition than the South Bend, and the Enco doesn't appear to need any work.  I still need to go through my paces with all three machines, but this seems like potentially a better deal.


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## tjb (Apr 27, 2019)

Jason280 said:


> Crazy as it sounds, I may end up passing on the deal.  The seller is asking $2k for the lathe, mill, and 3 phase converter, which isn't a bad deal....except I have found another potential deal on an Atlas 12x36, LeBlond Regal 17", and Enco variable speed milling machine with 3 phase converter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm right up the road from you.  A bit of a long shot, but I might be interested in the LeBlond (depending on condition/price).  If that helps the package deal, let me know.

Regards,
Terry


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## Robo_Pi (Apr 27, 2019)

Jason280 said:


> Crazy as it sounds, I may end up passing on the deal. The seller is asking $2k for the lathe, mill, and 3 phase converter, which isn't a bad deal....



Yep, I'd say that a pretty good deal.



Jason280 said:


> except I have found another potential deal on an Atlas 12x36, LeBlond Regal 17", and Enco variable speed milling machine with 3 phase converter.



My my!   Looks like you live in deal land.  Candy stores everywhere you turn.


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## pontiac428 (Apr 27, 2019)

I really like the direction this is going!

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


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## Dabbler (Apr 27, 2019)

2K$ for a mill, lathe and 3ph converter...  A whole shop for 2K?  I just spent 2.5K on a mill - 3ph, no converter.


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## tjb (Apr 27, 2019)

Dabbler said:


> 2K$ for a mill, lathe and 3ph converter...  A whole shop for 2K?  I just spent 2.5K on a mill - 3ph, no converter.


And even THAT's a deal.


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## Robo_Pi (Apr 27, 2019)

I found a deal in January. 

1. A beautiful 16" South Bend lathe with taper attachment,  3-jaw and 4-jaw chucks, a 5C collet set with closer-bar, and a center rest.
AND:
2. A 42" Bridgeport mill complete with vice. 
AND
3. A Taft Surface Grinder. 

All at the same location for $2,500.

Unfortunately I was broke at the time and the clutch was slipping in my truck so I couldn't pick them up anyway,

What a bummer!  

So I'm still shopless,... kind of,... I actual do have a nice 17.5" Lathe/mill combo, so I guess I can't really say that I'm "shopless"  

But no candy for me!


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## Jason280 (Apr 28, 2019)

I'm definitely faced with some decisons.  The Induma has more potential upside, assuming the DRO and power feed can be easily fixed (as well as the back gear).  Plus, I like the 3phase converter setup with it a little bettee than the other.  On the other hand, the LaBlond is in much better shape, and comes with a lot more stuff....plus, I can get the smaller Atlas as a bonus.  Good thing about the Enco is parts should be far easier to source, and it has the variable speed drive.

Decisons, decisions...


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## Aukai (Apr 28, 2019)

A lot more stuff sounds good too, unless it's redundant for what you already have.


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## Cooter Brown (Apr 28, 2019)

that LeBlond is a very nice machine but that enco mill doesn't have a DRO and a good one will cost you $1500+ I say go back and buy the first mill. A mill with a DRO is amazing to have almost everything becomes very easy to do....


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## Jason280 (Apr 28, 2019)

Problem is, I have no idea if the DRO even works on the other mill.  The previous owner has stated it never worked for him, so it's difficult to say whether it can be fixed or not.


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## Cooter Brown (Apr 28, 2019)

oops wrong tab


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## Robo_Pi (Apr 28, 2019)

Jason280 said:


> I'm definitely faced with some decisons.  The Induma has more potential upside, assuming the DRO and power feed can be easily fixed (as well as the back gear).  Plus, I like the 3phase converter setup with it a little bettee than the other.  On the other hand, the LaBlond is in much better shape, and comes with a lot more stuff....plus, I can get the smaller Atlas as a bonus.  Good thing about the Enco is parts should be far easier to source, and it has the variable speed drive.
> 
> Decisons, decisions...



Buy both!
Build a bigger shop.
Go in business as a job shop.
You'll be glad you did. 

Just kidding. 

I'm afraid I have no sympathy for you at all.    You get to suffer the pain and agony of choosing between two GREAT DEALS.

But I'm sitting here suffering from the pain and agony of having no deals to chose from at all. 

So weep for me
and let it be
choose the LaBlond
with tooling for free!

A DRO is unimportant
if you can read a dial
with an Atlas in the corner
your shop will have some style.


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## Jason280 (May 6, 2019)

I looked again at the Induma today, trying to convince myself to buy it.  I initially thought that the back gear wasn't engaging, but I was mistaken...the back gear is currently engaged, and will not disengage.  Basically, its stuck in the absolute lowest speeds the machine offers, so the max speed currently (even with belt change on the pulleys) is _maybe_ 300 RPM.  

I played around with it for a good 30 minutes, trying to figure out what *might* be the issue.  When you switch it from "Low" to "High" on the side of the head, it doesn't engage.  The motor will spin, but nothing else happens.  When you move the lever on top, nothing is happening.  There is a cammed slot on both sides of the ring attached to the lever, that is supposed to raise and lower two pins that stick out....apparently whatever it is supposed to slide up and down is stuck or broken.  I have no idea how difficult it is to tear the head down, but looking at it, none of it looks easy.


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## Dabbler (May 6, 2019)

Jason280 I can't speak for US prices - our Canadian funny money makes it hard to say.   For me, with the VFD, IP54 box and wires, it was $400 CDN.  I think you can do a 2HP VFD for 30% less.  NOTE  I bought a TECO US made VFD.  offshore ones are a lot cheaper.


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## richl (May 6, 2019)

I know you do not have a Bridgeport,  but they do help get an idea what you could be getting into
h and w bridgeport rebuilding videos




__





						h and w bridgeport rebuilding videos - Google Search
					





					www.google.com


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## markba633csi (May 6, 2019)

On a step pulley machine, there is really not much to go wrong.  The overall wear of the machine would be what I would be checking, not so much the little details like the backgear engagement (unless it has broken gears in there)... you know you will most likely be tearing into it anyhow
I would much rather have the first deal than the second. Just my opinion. But then I'm not put off by an inoperative DRO, probably fixable with some tinkering, cleaning and maybe electronical repair
Mark


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## Jason280 (May 6, 2019)

I think this is where the problem is...


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## Dabbler (May 6, 2019)

so this is easy.  check out this video...  the upper rebuild if fairly straightforward:


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## Jason280 (May 7, 2019)

I'm not sure how much difference there would be, as the link above covers a variable speed head.  Surprisingly, I couldn't find a video that covered just a stepped-pulley head...considering how many are out there, I figured I would be able to find at least one!


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## Cadillac (May 7, 2019)

Okay in the pictures you posted above as a reference. There is the slots in the ring that the handle is connected to those slots are angled. Acting as a ramp. There are the pins on each side that ride within the slot. When the lever is pointing at you at the operators position it is raising that bearing assembly. Which those pins are connected to the bearing Assy. When doing so it engages into high gear, along with throwing the in/out lever on the right side of the head. 
 Then that lever on top stroked to the right  and the other lever on right side of head gets put in the other position and you have low gear. 
 What you wanna see when moving that top lever right and forward is that those pins are moving and the top of bearing will move up and down that1/4-1/2.  Then the lever on the side strokes forward and back about 180* apart. Internally it is raising a gear so you might have to manually spin the spindle a touch for the gears to mess. It’s easy once done.


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## Jason280 (May 7, 2019)

You can watch the pins on both sides pivot a slight bit, but they are not raising/lowering when shifting.

Looking at the first pic I posted above, should either of those rings (the ones around the main shaft with the spanner detent) move up or down?  At least, should one slide up or down with the cam on the lever?


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## Cadillac (May 7, 2019)

Their are two spanner rings one presses on the ID race of the bearing and the larger is for the OD race of the bearing. The ring with the slots is about 1/4" thick besides that ring that whole bearing Assy should move up and down which allows the pulleys to mesh with the main spindle. That bearing Assy is connected to the pulley inside the housing and actually you should be able to see that pulley Assy also move up/down. It's a slight movement. If the mill has been sitting it could very well be possible the bearing Assy in question is seized in position. I'd recommend grabbing some PB blaster and a rubber mallet. Stroke the lever spraying and tapping till you see the bearing Assy moving u/down about 1/4". From the pictures looks like your in the raised position = flush with ring top. Put lever to side  spray and tap pitying tap the ring and housing till she moves. Good luck.


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## Jason280 (May 8, 2019)

Thanks, I'll give it a try!


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## richl (May 8, 2019)

I am amazed you are able to do this. Around me, a bridgeport or equivalent machine can typically be in the 3500 range, most machines at a lower price disappear after a few days or a week most . I could not picture someone letting you stop by and inspect, test and troubleshoot a machine every couple of days lol. 
Buy the induma, give the machine some love and never look back. Pick up that great lath in the same trip;-)


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## Jason280 (May 8, 2019)

I have definitely been fortunate.  I think he's been almost as interested in seeing what's wrong with as I am, but I couldn't imagine having it and not fixing it (or at least trying).  I guess it did what he needed it to over the years, unless I am simply being sandbagged (and don't see it).


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## Cadillac (May 8, 2019)

Watch this link. Its alittle long winded but he shows how the bearing Assy is removed. Might help


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## Jason280 (May 8, 2019)

Thanks for the link.  I've watched a few videos on YouTube, but none cover this exact issue...maybe this one will be a little more informative.


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## Toolmaker51 (May 8, 2019)

You could reject his offer and wait six years for another deal. But one us will snap it up. 
The DRO sounds like it isn't in reading mode, it's in pre-set. It's waiting input from keypad, enter; then they should read. 
If not Newall, is just a email or phone call away. 
The power feed is not Induma, it's chineseium, no loss. 
Backlash, there will be take up nuts or screws in the X-Y cross, a big bronze affair threaded for both lead screws.
It's not a Bridgeport, so what? Neither is any other turret mill; Cincinnati, Comet, ExCello, Sharp or South Bend, that doesn't make them fakes, just different. None are perfect designs. I wouldn't turn down an Induma, in fact repaired one that had been dropped, breaking the plate [!] beneath the pulley shroud. 1983. H**L no didn't weld it, hogged a-new from billet aluminum. still running today. Step pulley just like this one you found.
And not being able to shift might be the owners problem. There are hundreds of clowns _with_ machinery, clueless how to run, maintain, even set one up. Note, didn't say clowns who '_own_' machinery. Effectively, machine owns them.


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## Jason280 (May 8, 2019)

I'll end up taking a chance on it, I don't think I can go wrong at the price.


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## Jason280 (May 10, 2019)

Made a deal for the milling machine and a South Bend 16" lathe, now becomes the job of getting it home!


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## bill70j (May 10, 2019)

Congratulations!! You lucky dog


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## Jason280 (May 10, 2019)

I think its a pretty decent deal, I'll get a South Bend 16" lathe, the Induma milling machine, two 6" machinist's vises, and a decent amount of collets and lathe tooling.


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## Jason280 (May 18, 2019)

Wish me luck, I rented this yesterday and will be picking the lathe & milling machine up tomorrow...







Crazy thing is, the forklift damn near weighs as much as the truck does!


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## Jason280 (May 28, 2019)

Milling machine is home, cleaned up a little, and finally wired up.  I called Newall, and they walked me through some steps and I was able to get the DRO working correctly.  Unfortunately, it went right back to "0.0000" after I unplugged & plugged it back in later on, so I may have to go through the steps again.  Apparently, this model has an internal battery of some sort that goes dead every 6 months, so I may try pulling the cover to see if I can replace it.  

The power feed is working pretty well, too, but it does have its occasional quirks...its easy to work around, though.  

I drilled a few 5/8" holes with it, just to see if there were any odd bearing/spindle noises, everything was all good.  I've pulled the cam gear outer ring, and have been soaking the top with penetrating oil...hopefully I can get it to slide up/down and get it out of low gear.


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## Dabbler (May 28, 2019)

Let me know when you do the back gear rebuild.  It isn't hard, and I only used the video I posted earlier.  It was more than enough, even if it looked like the wrong head.

 BTW I'm no 'wrench head' like the guys that rebuild motors for cars, etc.  I do rebuild machines, and most of them are really, really easy!


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## Jason280 (May 29, 2019)

I was able to find an Induma manual, which shows the break down of the head...hopefully it won't be a difficult fix!


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## Jason280 (Jun 6, 2019)

I completely forgot to update this thread!

I was able to get the Induma to switch between low and high speeds.  I pulled the motor and top portion of the head (called the pulley housing), which houses the back gear and upper spindle/pulley assembly.  There is a large steel bushing that slides inside of the upper pulley housing, which is itself aluminum.  Best I can tell, one of the previous owners had banged a bit on top of the housing and marred the edges of the aluminum enough to cause the bushing to lock up.  The bushing is the pieces that slides with the cam ring, to switch in and out of the back gear/low speed.  I had to go over the aluminum housing a few times with 500 - 1200 grit sand paper, but was able to get it smooth enough to allow the bushing to correctly slide up and down.  Put it all back together, and now I have all 8 speeds.

Here is the housing...






...and here is the bushing:





The bushing slides up and down in the housing, and holds one of the bearings for the spindle shaft.

This is the portion that slides up and down with the cam gear, which engages/disengages the back gear for low speed.


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## Jason280 (Jun 6, 2019)

The only issue I have now with the milling machine is the Newall DRO.  Initially, when I first looked at the mill all the DRO would do is turn on.  You could reset the X & Y to "0.0000", but could never get the scales to track.  Called Newall, and they were able to walk me through resetting and it worked perfectly....until I powered it off.  Eventually, I figured out there was backup CR2032 inside that had likely died years ago, so I replaced it and again reset the DRO.  Once again, it worked perfectly.  I turned it off (but left it plugged in), and the next day it was completely dead. No red indicator light, nothing....couldn't get the display to do _anything_.  I checked the 0.8a fuse, and it was OK, and confirmed I was getting power past the switch, but still can't get it to do anything.  I'll probably end up pulling it again and checking over the board, hopefully its something simple.  Either way, the DRO was just a bonus, I'm still stoked the mill is back operational!


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## brino (Jun 7, 2019)

simple things first: Did you get the battery in right way up?
for me those darn things seem to get smaller every year!
-brino


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## markba633csi (Jun 7, 2019)

I'm sure you'll figure out the DRO issue, probably just corrosion of contacts or similar thing. If you can get a copy of the circuit diagram it will help a lot


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## BFHammer (Jun 7, 2019)

Regarding the DRO backup battery CR2032 - I hate to admit this on myself but if it helps:
I replaced one in a small electronic item and it still didn't work, replaced it with another and it still didn't work - until I (put my glasses on and) realized that the CR2032s had a clear protective film over the back of the battery.   All of sudden things were working again!  
Good luck with your new mill!


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## Jason280 (Jun 7, 2019)

The battery doesn't have anything to do with the unit powering up, it just saves the settings once its powered down.  It actually initially worked fine after I changed the battery, but something happened overnight with it plugged up.  I'll check the battery just in case, but I am 99% sure its something _other_ than the battery.


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## Dabbler (Jun 8, 2019)

Well, at least you got a great mill, and the scales should be compatible witha  modern reader - perhaps Newall can give you a deal on an new display  unit.


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## Jason280 (Jun 8, 2019)

> perhaps Newall can give you a deal on an new display  unit.



I asked Newall if the scales would work with any of their other head units, they don't have anything compatible...told me I could always order a new DRO setup from them.  Not sure I am quite ready to drop $1k+ on a new DRO, Iso 'm going to keep troubleshooting the one I have now.


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