# Which Milling Machine To Buy?



## Curtis (Jul 29, 2015)

Hello everyone; 
     I am not new to  hobby machining, but I only have a Taig milling machine which is surprisingly good for its size, but annoying in that there is only 8 inches of daylight under the spindle and has that completely useless (in my opinion) rotatable column which gets knocked out of tram so easily (don't even think about using a fly cutter with this mill!). S0... I am in the market for a new machine with a rigid column and a decent amount of space under the spindle- I am also looking for a rigid machine made of cast iron and steel - no aluminum.
     I am presently considering either this : http://www.harborfreight.com/1-1-2-half-horsepower-heavy-duty-milling-drilling-machine-33686.html or this one at Grizzly : http://www.grizzly.com/products/Drill-Mill-with-Stand/G0704 . The Grizzly is the lighter of the two and would be easier to wrestle into my basement shop, but I noticed that it seems to be merely a beefed up version of the popular "mini-mills" in that it uses the same headstock gear system. The Harbor Freight mill on the other hand would be as rigid as I could need, but I am uncertain about the quality of that machine and no nearby HF store has one to examine. Do any of you have either of these machines and if so could you comment on them please? Any input is appreciated, but be aware that I cannot manage getting a used Bridgeport (the usual exhortation is to get one of these) into my house and don't want to deal with something that heavy in any case. Thanks in advance for any responses/replies!


----------



## rick9345 (Jul 29, 2015)

most machines, BP and clones can be dissembled into multiple easy to handle sub sections. good chance to clean/inspect.
You probably would be surprised at the basements these have been moved into. Looks daunting but really just a multiple task. good luck.

I have seen them in dinning rooms/porches etc.


----------



## countryguy (Jul 29, 2015)

I would offer that a Grizzly G0704 has hundreds and hundreds of satisfied users.  As I usually post; Check out the hoss www.G0704.com website.  the user base for help and parts are really easy to obtain.    I personally like the square column mill over the round column mill.


----------



## countryguy (Jul 29, 2015)

As Rick commented - +1 on that for sure!!  I am a newb. About 1.5 years into this hobby.  I outgrew my 'hobby mill' in just a few months. I have now moved some crazy heavy stuff by tearing down.    Enjoy the hunt!


----------



## T Bredehoft (Jul 29, 2015)

Also check out Quality Machinery's PM25, I've been amazed at what it can do, considering its' size.

It comes with variable speed control and belt drive quiet as an electric typewriter.  Same basic specs as the Grizzly 704.


----------



## rick9345 (Jul 29, 2015)

Mass is the machinist's friend when it comes to milling/lathe work. Big cuts save big time. If one has only worked with bench mount machines, the first turn of large machines handle and one is doing a happy dance.
When feasible ($'s) grow into,not out of a purchase.


----------



## Curtis (Jul 29, 2015)

rick9345 said:


> most machines, BP and clones can be dissembled into multiple easy to handle sub sections. good chance to clean/inspect.
> You probably would be surprised at the basements these have been moved into. Looks daunting but really just a multiple task. good luck.
> 
> I have seen them in dinning rooms/porches etc.



      Thanks for the reply, but I am 61 years old and partially disabled. Moving a 2000 to 2400 pound Bridgeport (even in sections) is not really within the realm of reality for me, and when you get to be my age most of your friends (if still above ground) aren't up to helping with that task either.  Aside from that, the low headroom of my basement would preclude a machine that tall.


----------



## Curtis (Jul 29, 2015)

countryguy said:


> I would offer that a Grizzly G0704 has hundreds and hundreds of satisfied users.  As I usually post; Check out the hoss www.G0704.com website.  the user base for help and parts are really easy to obtain.    I personally like the square column mill over the round column mill.


 
           Thanks for that link! I have it bookmarked and I agree that the square column is a very attractive feature (besides which, it is lighter as well).


----------



## Curtis (Jul 29, 2015)

rick9345 said:


> Mass is the machinist's friend when it comes to milling/lathe work. Big cuts save big time. If one has only worked with bench mount machines, the first turn of large machines handle and one is doing a happy dance.
> When feasible ($'s) grow into,not out of a purchase.



     I can't argue with the logic of mass and weight being extremely desirable and advantageous. No argument there, but in my particular case, I simply have to face reality and consign myself to a smaller, lighter and easier machine to move into place.  I do have a decent sized (very old) Sheldon lathe that was a bear to move into my basement (18 years ago, when I was in better shape), so I know that a lusty, big machine is a huge advantage. Alas and alack- it just ain't reality for me. I need to choose between the two that I mentioned earlier for physical reasons mostly, not so much a monetary reason. But don't misunderstand me; I appreciate your input and your enthusiasm for the Bridgeport the "gold standard" of old style milling machines.


----------



## wrmiller (Jul 29, 2015)

I have a PM25 which is the same size as the G704 and have buried a 3/8" carbide corn-cob (rougher) in 1" thick mild steel. I don't suggest doing this as a normal course of use, but it was all I had at the time. I'm just repeating this as an example of what the mill can do at the extremes.


----------



## Curtis (Jul 29, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> I have a PM25 which is the same size as the G704 and have buried a 3/8" carbide corn-cob (rougher) in 1" thick mild steel. I don't suggest doing this as a normal course of use, but it was all I had at the time. I'm just repeating this as an example of what the mill can do at the extremes.



     I just looked that machine up on the net. Very interesting- it looks a lot like the Grizzly G0704 that I am considering. Since I live within a day's driving distance of Grizzly's Eastern location, I could drive out there and pick one up at their facility if I settle on that model. By the way, I can content myself with a machine like these that can take say, maybe a .200" cut in mild steel if need be. Yes, I might have to make more passes to get the project to size but I have time. Thanks for posting about the capabilities of you machine- that is the kind of helpful info I was hoping for.


----------



## wrmiller (Jul 29, 2015)

Curtis said:


> I just looked that machine up on the net. Very interesting- it looks a lot like the Grizzly G0704 that I am considering. Since I live within a day's driving distance of Grizzly's Eastern location, I could drive out there and pick one up at their facility if I settle on that model. By the way, I can content myself with a machine like these that can take say, maybe a .200" cut in mild steel if need be. Yes, I might have to make more passes to get the project to size but I have time. Thanks for posting about the capabilities of you machine- that is the kind of helpful info I was hoping for.



Just a suggestion, but with machines like this that are limited mass/rigidity wise, good quality end mills are your friend. I use course and fine roughers for any significant stock removal then finish with a regular end mill. These machines are capable of some impressive work as long as you stay within their work envelop and don't try to push it like a full sized mill ( a story comes to mind about someone trying to use a 3/4" end mill in one of these thing... )


----------



## countryguy (Jul 29, 2015)

Yeah - I was that guy too...  So new not too long ago!  I thought that all these Mfr. Ads w/ huge end-mills and advertised carbide 1.5" DOCs with R8 small mill collet sets that come up to 7/8"   LOL...  Ohh how I've learned.  +1 on the roughers! 

On a more serious note- You'll play w/ Feeds and speeds to hit the sweet spots of the machine and cutters you like.   I've put 1045 thru my 3:1 shopmaster CNC mill and it seems more about feeds and speed setup w/ the smaller end mills.    The PM25 and precision matthews/Quality machines are highly regarded here in HM from what I have read.  I do not think you would go wrong with either!


----------



## Curtis (Jul 29, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Just a suggestion, but with machines like this that are limited mass/rigidity wise, good quality end mills are your friend. I use course and fine roughers for any significant stock removal then finish with a regular end mill. These machines are capable of some impressive work as long as you stay within their work envelop and don't try to push it like a full sized mill ( a story comes to mind about someone trying to use a 3/4" end mill in one of these thing... )


 
                      Thank you Bill,  as a matter of fact I just found that out after receiving an order that I placed from MSC for some special carbide end mills that are AlCrN coated as well as two slow helix 1/8" carbide drills (also coated) which I got out of frustration with trying to drill through aluminum bronze. The performance of the drills has to be seen to be appreciated, and the coated carbide end mills are equally amazing- and on a tiny Taig mill no less!


----------



## Curtis (Jul 29, 2015)

So it looks like no one owns one of the round-column "Rong-Fu" type mill-drills like the Harbor Freight mill that I linked to in the OP? I was hoping someone could shed some light on their experience with it if they owned one of these machines. The two attractive features of the HF are the relatively big table and the 18 inch spindle to table distance it has. Oh well, maybe it is just too outdated in design or something such that no one here has one.


----------



## rrjohnso2000 (Jul 29, 2015)

I would give it a couple days. I'm sure someone will chime in. Good luck


----------



## Baatoot (Jul 29, 2015)

rrjohnso2000 said:


> I would give it a couple days. I'm sure someone will chime in. Good luck



I would look at the Rusnok benchtop mill.  Been around for years,  well made and solid as a rock.  I have two of them, and use them to make parts for live steam engines.

The mill easily comes apart for transport downstairs into a cellar.

Rusnok mills are still made by Electro-Mechano:  http://www.electro-mechano.com.  Quite expensive, but in my opinion well worth the cost. Sometimes a Rusnok turns up on eBay, and is quickly snapped up.

John Nathan


----------



## fast freddie (Jul 29, 2015)

Curtis said:


> Thanks for the reply, but I am 61 years old and partially disabled. Moving a 2000 to 2400 pound Bridgeport (even in sections) is not really within the realm of reality for me, and when you get to be my age most of your friends (if still above ground) aren't up to helping with that task either.  Aside from that, the low headroom of my basement would preclude a machine that tall.


sounds like your answering your own questions  LOL.


----------



## Curtis (Jul 29, 2015)

fast freddie said:


> sounds like your answering your own questions  LOL.



     Answering my own question? How so?  In my OP I was asking for opinions and information on two specific mills, which you can see in my OP are a Harbor Freight option and a Grizzly G0704, both of which are relatively light machines. I was not asking whether I should buy a one ton Bridgeport. This seems to be the type of response one can expect from a person who does not read the original post for comprehension. So what is there to laugh about?


----------



## 65BAJA (Jul 30, 2015)

Take a look at the PM 935. It's a regular Bridgeport style but in about a 3/4 scale size. You might be able to break it down and move it in pieces.


----------



## rrjohnso2000 (Jul 30, 2015)

I think what you are after is round column verses square advice/experience. 

You may want to chime in with your expectations for the machine and what you hope to be able to do with it. 

Both machines in the OP will do quite a bit. You mentioned daylight, it's always nice to have but do you need it for your projects. The issue with round columns is having to adjust z height during machining operations and not be able to locate the head precisely after adjustment. With the square column that's not an issue. 

Everyone is pointing you to a Bridgeport with good reason. It's the go to, ridged, large work envelope, what you will want in a year. That being said you have other constraints and needs. You may only be making models, a smaller mill will do that work happily. 

The PM machines have a great reputation but I think you usually have a wait. Options have been presented, consider them. I surprised myself a few weeks ago moving a piece of equipment. Breaking it down took 30 minutes and then I could move it myself. 

Movers can be hired as well for reasonable rates. The uhaul website has a link to movers with reviews. My friend gave that tip and I've used them twice and recommend it to anyone needing moving manpower, even just in the home.


----------



## dave2176 (Jul 30, 2015)

Stay away from the round column. The G0704 is a very capable little mill. If you need proof, watch the videos Hoss has done. Of the two you list, there is really only one choice.
Dave


----------



## ray (Jul 30, 2015)

I had a Jet round column mill in 1984 and used it in my shop til 2003.  Took  getting used to adjusting it almost every time when changing axis.  I liked the mass and weight.


----------



## Jason Annen (Jul 30, 2015)

I have the round colum mill, but, it was built in 1985.  It's been a solid machine for what I used it for, but it has limitations, the biggest being loosing your zero if you have to move the head.

I still have it, but now that I have a full size machine, it gets used much less.  I would get the square column machine.

Jason


----------



## ch2co (Jul 30, 2015)

As far as I can tell, I'm in sort of the same place you are. You are still a youngster though, but I think I can see where you are coming from.
IF (big if) I upgrade my second hand Grizzly 8689, I would go to the Grizzly 0704 or the PM version thereof. This is a Hobby
machining site after all, and my hobby is making and modifying telescopes, telescope mounts and ancillary equipment for my main 
hobby which is astronomy.  I would stick to the rectangular dovetail column style and avoid the round column. much more stable.
I have friends that have Bridgeports which I have used and they are remarkable, but given a little time and patience, I still can do some 
great stuff with my little mini mill. After all a hobby is a means having fun, stimulating the mind, relaxation and the feeling of accomplishments. 
Living fairly close to a Grizzly outlet, would be a great way to combine a road trip into picking up your machine, and I do like road trips.
Keep on swarfing!

Chuck the grumpy old guy


----------



## fast freddie (Jul 30, 2015)

Curtis said:


> Answering my own question? How so?  In my OP I was asking for opinions and information on two specific mills, which you can see in my OP are a Harbor Freight option and a Grizzly G0704, both of which are relatively light machines. I was not asking whether I should buy a one ton Bridgeport. This seems to be the type of response one can expect from a person who does not read the original post for comprehension. So what is there to laugh about?


someone laughing ? I just mean it looks like you know what you want. boy do you have thin shin wow !!!


----------



## kd4gij (Jul 30, 2015)

I have had my G0704 ever scence grizzley game out with it. I have been happy with it. It does everything I need , Just need to know when to take it easy.


----------



## hman (Jul 30, 2015)

Curtis said:


> So it looks like no one owns one of the round-column "Rong-Fu" type mill-drills like the Harbor Freight mill that I linked to in the OP? I was hoping someone could shed some light on their experience with it if they owned one of these machines. The two attractive features of the HF are the relatively big table and the 18 inch spindle to table distance it has. Oh well, maybe it is just too outdated in design or something such that no one here has one.



Curtis -
I have an older Grizzly G1007/RongFu 30 mill, and I'm using it just about every day on my current project.  Others have mentioned a couple of factors, including the loss of zero when the column is moved. I'll add another - you have to open the tin belt box to access the draw bar nut every time you want to change tools.  Keeping the spindle from turning while doing so is also a hassle, unless you buy something like:
http://www.luminarproducts.com/spindle-spline-wrench.html

Other thoughts, in no particular order -

Rick Sparber has an Enco RF30 clone.  His website has several articles that may be of interest to you.
http://rick.sparber.org/ma.htm#8

You mentioned you were a bit disabled, so I'll add this - My mill is on a 29" high table and when the column is cranked up, tool changes involve either tiptoes or a step stool.  Finally, turning the crank to raise the head is nice whole-body exercise.  [Of course, the head elevation crank on the Grizzly is up pretty high, isn't it?  But I'll bet it's geared better.]

That said, the RF30 is a lot more capable mill than the mini-mill (HF 44991) I also own.  Larger work envelope, stiffer, etc. 

If you're at all serious about the HF mill, I'd very strongly suggest giving it a close personal look.  Might be good, but I've been disappointed by HF tools too often to buy one (especially such a major purchase) without thoroughly checking it out.  And be sure to factor in HF's poor after-sales service.

As for the G0704, I've lusted after one for some time, and narrowly missed buying one from Craigslist about a year ago.  Durn!  Somebody else suggested the PM-25 as an alternative:
http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-MV-BenchMills.html
I've heard nothing but good comments about Precision Matthews and about machinetoolsonline's responsiveness.  Grizzly is good, too.

Best wishes, whatever your decision is.  If you come up with any specific questions about the RF30, please feel free to PM me.


----------



## JimDawson (Jul 31, 2015)

Curtis said:


> Answering my own question? How so?  In my OP I was asking for opinions and information on two specific mills, which you can see in my OP are a Harbor Freight option and a Grizzly G0704, both of which are relatively light machines. I was not asking whether I should buy a one ton Bridgeport. This seems to be the type of response one can expect from a person who does not read the original post for comprehension. So what is there to laugh about?





fast freddie said:


> someone laughing ? I just mean it looks like you know what you want. boy do you have thin shin wow !!!



Play nice gentlemen!  This is the FRIENDLY Machinist Forum.


----------



## Ed of all trades (Jul 31, 2015)

Thanks, I have been ease dropping and learning or at least trying to. Ed


----------



## Curtis (Jul 31, 2015)

65BAJA said:


> Take a look at the PM 935. It's a regular Bridgeport style but in about a 3/4 scale size. You might be able to break it down and move it in pieces.


 
     65BAJA;

     Thank you for the suggestion, but I'm afraid that is still too large. The biggest and heaviest that I could possibly get into my basement shop would be the HF Rong-Fu type round post machine that I mentioned in my OP, and even that is going to be a bear for me. Sizing things up so far, I'd have to say that CountryGuy or (was it Rick9345?)  is right about the Grizzly G0704 being the way to go.  Round column machines are probably going to be more of a pain to re-tram every time the head is lowered or raised as others have indicated and the Grizzly probably has enough mass for the kind of projects that I am interested in (machining parts for Kozo's locomotives, for instance). And the Grizzly facility is within driving distance for me here in PA. Too bad it can't be had with a motorized X-axis, but oh well, those are the breaks, I guess.


----------



## wrmiller (Jul 31, 2015)

You can buy a power feed for a G0704. I put one on my PM25 and it works great.


----------



## 65BAJA (Jul 31, 2015)

You can't really go wrong with the 704. It's got such a huge following. Besides you can probably add power to the X at any time.


----------



## Curtis (Jul 31, 2015)

ch2co said:


> As far as I can tell, I'm in sort of the same place you are. You are still a youngster though, but I think I can see where you are coming from.
> IF (big if) I upgrade my second hand Grizzly 8689, I would go to the Grizzly 0704 or the PM version thereof. This is a Hobby
> machining site after all, and my hobby is making and modifying telescopes, telescope mounts and ancillary equipment for my main
> hobby which is astronomy.  I would stick to the rectangular dovetail column style and avoid the round column. much more stable.
> ...



    Thanks for the input Chuck. Yes, I am pretty much settled on the Grizzly or PM version of it. The hobby I am pursuing is making (or trying to make) Kozo Hiraoka's switchers (love the Shay!). One can do a remarkable amount of work on a 9 X 20 lathe, but a more capable "mill" than the Taig would be a real convenience. I really dislike the rotating column on the Taig which is so easily knocked out of tram, so there is another plus to the square  (and fixed) column mill. I had considered one of those mini-mills such as you have, but it would not be much of a step up from the Taig in terms of size and work envelope. Glad you are happy with yours though!  By the way; I am "a youngster" at age 61? Okay! You have me chuckling here.


----------



## Curtis (Jul 31, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> You can buy a power feed for a G0704. I put one on my PM25 and it works great.



     I did not know that, and it cements my decision to get one.


----------



## Curtis (Jul 31, 2015)

hman said:


> Curtis -
> I have an older Grizzly G1007/RongFu 30 mill, and I'm using it just about every day on my current project.  Others have mentioned a couple of factors, including the loss of zero when the column is moved. I'll add another - you have to open the tin belt box to access the draw bar nut every time you want to change tools.  Keeping the spindle from turning while doing so is also a hassle, unless you buy something like:
> http://www.luminarproducts.com/spindle-spline-wrench.html
> 
> ...




      John, Thanks for the info and the link to rick sparber's website. This is the kind of information that is really useful and appreciated. And by the way, if I haven't already mentioned it I appreciate the constructive and useful input that everyone has taken the time to give me. It has made this decision much easier for me. Ralph mentioned the reason why several people have suggested a Bridgeport and I know that it would be wonderful to have, but even if I could buy, transport, take it down and reassemble one it still would not fit in my basement and my garage is not an option. As noted above, I think the Grizzly will suit me best. With my neighbor's help, I am sure that we could get it into the basement and set up. But I am still going to give Rick Sparber's website a look.


----------



## Curtis (Jul 31, 2015)

ch2co said:


> As far as I can tell, I'm in sort of the same place you are. You are still a youngster though, but I think I can see where you are coming from.
> IF (big if) I upgrade my second hand Grizzly 8689, I would go to the Grizzly 0704 or the PM version thereof. This is a Hobby
> machining site after all, and my hobby is making and modifying telescopes, telescope mounts and ancillary equipment for my main
> hobby which is astronomy.  I would stick to the rectangular dovetail column style and avoid the round column. much more stable.
> ...



    Chuck, noting that your hobby is astronomy/making telescopes and that you are older than I am, I was wondering if you recall that (or were aware that) Edmund Scientific used to sell the do-it-yourself reflector telescope kits which included two round glass blanks for  the mirror and an assortment of abrasive grits with which to grind the mirror? After doing this you had to send the finished blank somewhere to have it coated with aluminum or silver to make a parabolic mirror out of it. I was a kid back when they sold these kits and wasn't able to afford one of them back then. Sadly, no longer available after Edmund Scientific left Barrington, New Jersey.


----------



## wrmiller (Jul 31, 2015)

Curtis said:


> I did not know that, and it cements my decision to get one.



Here's a pic of my PM25 milling oiling galleys in the saddle of my 9x39 mill. This is the old model PM25 and near identical to the G0704. You can see the x-axis power feed on the left side of the table. Good little mill.


----------



## brav65 (Jul 31, 2015)

Matt at PM is offering a bolt on X power feed for the PM-25. It is on my short list of must haves.


----------



## kd4gij (Jul 31, 2015)

I have had the x axes power feed on my 704 scinc right after Ibought it. I got it from lathemasters before grizzly got them in. I would like to get or build a power feed for the z to move the head up and down.


----------



## Curtis (Jul 31, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Here's a pic of my PM25 milling oiling galleys in the saddle of my 9x39 mill. This is the old model PM25 and near identical to the G0704. You can see the x-axis power feed on the left side of the table. Good little mill.
> 
> View attachment 108207



      That is a really nice mill. I am looking forward to getting mine!


----------



## ch2co (Aug 1, 2015)

Curtis said:


> Thanks for the input Chuck. Yes, I am pretty much settled on the Grizzly or PM version of it. The hobby I am pursuing is making (or trying to make) Kozo Hiraoka's switchers (love the Shay!). One can do a remarkable amount of work on a 9 X 20 lathe, but a more capable "mill" than the Taig would be a real convenience. I really dislike the rotating column on the Taig which is so easily knocked out of tram, so there is another plus to the square  (and fixed) column mill. I had considered one of those mini-mills such as you have, but it would not be much of a step up from the Taig in terms of size and work envelope. Glad you are happy with yours though!  By the way; I am "a youngster" at age 61? Okay! You have me chuckling here.





Curtis said:


> Chuck, noting that your hobby is astronomy/making telescopes and that you are older than I am, I was wondering if you recall that (or were aware that) Edmund Scientific used to sell the do-it-yourself reflector telescope kits which included two round glass blanks for  the mirror and an assortment of abrasive grits with which to grind the mirror? After doing this you had to send the finished blank somewhere to have it coated with aluminum or silver to make a parabolic mirror out of it. I was a kid back when they sold these kits and wasn't able to afford one of them back then. Sadly, no longer available after Edmund Scientific left Barrington, New Jersey.



Oh yes, I not only remember poring over the 'ol Edmund catalogues as a kid, I have couple of Edmond telescopes and a slew of their rather excellent RKE eyepieces. I ground a 6" mirror which turned out OK but not great, as a kid I didn't have enough patience to be a glass pusher, still don't. My largest (diameter) scope is a 10" reflector but I have a corral of some 18 different beasts, not counting binoculars. My current favorite is my 4" f15 refractor that I built (and still refining) based on an fabulous early '60's Jaegers Optics lens.,
a great 'star splitter' (for double stars) and planetary scope. 

Chuck the grumpy old guy


----------



## ch2co (Aug 1, 2015)

Curtis said:


> Thanks for the input Chuck. Yes, I am pretty much settled on the Grizzly or PM version of it. The hobby I am pursuing is making (or trying to make) Kozo Hiraoka's switchers (love the Shay!). One can do a remarkable amount of work on a 9 X 20 lathe, but a more capable "mill" than the Taig would be a real convenience. I really dislike the rotating column on the Taig which is so easily knocked out of tram, so there is another plus to the square  (and fixed) column mill. I had considered one of those mini-mills such as you have, but it would not be much of a step up from the Taig in terms of size and work envelope. Glad you are happy with yours though!  By the way; I am "a youngster" at age 61? Okay! You have me chuckling here.


 
I feel that anyone with less than 70 years under their belt, is a youngster. ;^)
Keep the swarf coming.

Chuck the grumpy old guy


----------



## Curtis (Aug 1, 2015)

ch2co said:


> I have couple of Edmond telescopes and a slew of their rather excellent RKE eyepieces.


    Now that you mention it, I remember those in their catalogs- they had others as well, some quite expensive as I recall (the eyepieces, I mean).


----------



## tmarks11 (Aug 15, 2015)

Curtis said:


> That is a really nice mill. I am looking forward to getting mine!



So are you getting the G0704, or the PM25?

I would strongly recommend you go to the PM25.  It has a belt drive instead of the gear head of the G0704 (which make the PM25 quieter and gives you a better cut quality), and a better spindle motor.  Both are upgrades that G0704 owners often perform after the fact.

http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-MV-BenchMills.html

If you got some cash to spare once you buy, than a DRO makes the whole thing much more pleasant to use.  I would buy a DRO before I buy a power need (although you mentioned some disability issues, so that might steer you to the power feed first).


----------



## Curtis (Aug 15, 2015)

It is going to have to be the Go704 for me, even though I admit that the PM25 is a better design (the belt drive). In my case, money is going to be the deciding factor.  Yes, I am going for a power feed as well.. If need be, I could add a belt drive at a later time when more funds are available. I agree that a DRO is nearly a must as well (I have that on the Z axis of my Taig mill). I am retired and living on a fixed income, and the property taxes on my house are a real burden, along with all the other expenses that everyone else has, or I would jump on the PM25 with all the bells and whistles. Beside all this, the Grizzly facility is within relatively easy driving distance, whereas freight for the PM would add more expense. As to my disability, well, arthritis as well as rotator cuff surgery on BOTH shoulders has taken its toll- thus auto feed would be a real God send, but if I had to, I could manage without for a while if need be.


----------



## tmarks11 (Aug 15, 2015)

Curtis said:


> It is going to have to be the Go704 for me, even though I admit that the PM25 is a better design (the belt drive). In my case, money is going to be the deciding factor


Good choice.  The PM25 style upgrades can be done as you need and can afford them.  I think you will be happy with this mill as an upgrade over the Taig.

Here is a link to the guy who makes the belt drive kits:

http://benchtopprecision.com/g0704-belt-drive-kit/


----------



## Curtis (Aug 15, 2015)

tmarks11 said:


> Good choice.  The PM25 style upgrades can be done as you need and can afford them.  I think you will be happy with this mill as an upgrade over the Taig.
> 
> Here is a link to the guy who makes the belt drive kits:
> 
> http://benchtopprecision.com/g0704-belt-drive-kit/



- Thanks for the link, tmarks11!

I have it bookmarked for future use.


----------



## Andrewlcox (Nov 7, 2015)

This thread is very similar to my situation. I am clueless about milling. I want to get into the hobby and have about $3,000 to $5,000 to spend. I too will want to bring a mill into my basement. I love a good challenge and can hire some help to disassemble a Bridgeport and move it piece by piece into my basement if that is what I eventually end up with. 

Do you think I would be thowing good money after bad buy starting out with a small hobby mill? Size is a slight concern but not a deal breaker. I love the fact that there are so many training videos for the Bridgeport. I just feel like I may want to end up with a Bridgeport so why mess around with a temporary mill if I can just start with a Bridgeport. Too aggressive? Should I start small with baby steps?

Is a Bridgeport too much mill for a rookie?

Thanks for the links to the many choices of mills in this thread and thanks for any guidance on my situation. Sorry to hijack the thread.

Andy


----------



## Ed ke6bnl (Nov 7, 2015)

I just sold my Burke Millrite about 2/3  of a Bridgeport and stout for the size. like miny Bridgeport worth checking out.
my old Burke Millrite leaving this mourning, only negative is slowest speed 180 rpm no back gears and power down feed of quill. I believe it has 6 step pulley, some have handle for feeding quill and R8 some have B&S 120 volt some are 3 phase.


----------



## JimDawson (Nov 7, 2015)

Andrewlcox said:


> This thread is very similar to my situation. I am clueless about milling. I want to get into the hobby and have about $3,000 to $5,000 to spend. I too will want to bring a mill into my basement. I love a good challenge and can hire some help to disassemble a Bridgeport and move it piece by piece into my basement if that is what I eventually end up with.
> 
> Do you think I would be thowing good money after bad buy starting out with a small hobby mill? Size is a slight concern but not a deal breaker. I love the fact that there are so many training videos for the Bridgeport. I just feel like I may want to end up with a Bridgeport so why mess around with a temporary mill if I can just start with a Bridgeport. Too aggressive? Should I start small with baby steps?
> 
> ...



Welcome to the Hobby Machinist Andy

As far as being rookie and buying a BP, I don't see a problem there.  Seems like a reasonable place to start.  Getting it into the basement is doable, but may be a bit challenging depending on your layout.   A basic 9x49, J2 BP weighs about 2100 lbs, but will disassemble into about 7 major pieces.  

Best of luck


----------



## tmarks11 (Nov 7, 2015)

Easier to do good work (even on the smallest projects) on a bridgeport than on a small bench top mill.  The nice thing about this is you are working to your own skill limitations, rather than trying to use your newfound skills to overcome the mill's problems.

A couple things:
- 1000#+ for individual castings are nothing to sneeze at.  If you have outside access to your basement, it might be doable.  Inside only? hmm  Even when you strip a bridgeport down to the smallest parts, those parts are not that small.
- What is the overhead space in your basement?  A bridgeport won't fit underneath an 8' ceiling.

You might consider a "2/3 bridgeport". PM sells a very popular Taiwan 9x35 that might solve the overhead problem (but not the weight problem).  If that won't work, he also sells an 8x36 (those numbers are table size in inches; a full size bridgeport is 9x42, 9x49, 10x50 or 10x54).  Go over to the PM forum here to read nothing but good things about the 9x35.

http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-935HighPrecisionMills.html


----------



## Andrewlcox (Nov 7, 2015)

My basement floor to bottom of floor joists is measured at 91.5". I think a Bridgeport should fit.

I just like the fact that there is so much support for the BP in terms of parts availability and tooling.

Thanks,
Andy


----------



## Ed ke6bnl (Nov 7, 2015)

pretty sure my bridgeport is 79" with a round ram I thing my boys dove ram is the same ht. just need to turn head to remove the collet bar, if necessary


----------



## kd4gij (Nov 7, 2015)

The G0704 is a good choice. Here is a site devoted to it. Lots of mods and he also sales plans for larger mods and cnc.

http://migration.g0704.com/index.html


----------

