# A lathe finally! Craftsman 12x36 101.27440



## jfcayron

Here she is! I have long been waiting for a lathe. 
And it will continue for a while :lmao:

All the grease is literally frozen, most parts have a really sticky motion. 










Other than that, the ways are nice, and all the parts are there.


What makes it a good deal is that it came with 3 chucks, a steady rest, all sorts of tool holders and bits, 4 faceplates, 3 Jacobs chucks 
(and an unidentified small one on a threaded shank - anyone has seen it before?)









Curious also, in the box I found 3 snap thread gauges. :thinking:








Now the bad news: anic: a pair of broken teeth on the sliding gear and a nasty chip in the pulley. I believe they are zamak and therefore non-weldable. I see a purchase of parts in my future.:bitingnails::scared:






I will keep you posted as the renovation starts and progresses.


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## jumps4

thats well worth fixing
can i ask what you gave for the lathe
steve


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## Tom Griffin

Nice find Jeff.

The tooling makes whatever you paid for it a good deal. It would likely cost more than the lathe to buy all of it separately.

That gear can be repaired by dovetailing some material (aluminum would be a good choice) into the damaged area and re-cutting the teeth. There is also solder available that is compatible with zinc. You could build up the area with that and re-cut the teeth. Might be more trouble than it's worth though since the gears are probably readily available. Check with *Plaza Machinery*.

The chipped pulley won't hurt a thing.

Tom


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## jfcayron

Steve,

I paid $500 for the bunch. I think it is very honest.
In fact the lathe per se would be useable, but no power-feed or threading. So I will go for a complete tear-down and restoration right away.

Tom, 

Thanks for the technical info.
I was knocked off my feet to see that people ask from $225 to $400 for a pair of cast iron legs like the ones that came with it.:shocked:
As for the solder, I saw some info on the web, but it sounded quite messy. Do you have or know of any experience with it?


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## Tom Griffin

jfcayron said:


> Steve,
> 
> 
> Tom,
> 
> Thanks for the technical info.
> I was knocked off my feet to see that people ask from $225 to $400 for a pair of cast iron legs like the ones that came with it.:shocked:
> As for the solder, I saw some info on the web, but it sounded quite messy. Do you have or know of any experience with it?



Jeff,

Harris makes low temperature solders (400F) and their "Stay-Clean" fluxes. Soldering Diecast is a little tricky though because the melting point of the solder is close to the melting point of the zinc diecast. If you are good with a torch it'll work fine, otherwise you may want to explore other options.

Tom


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## jumps4

at 500 dollars for the lathe thats a deal
i would say the gear is a standard size or a find for ebay
tell me how many teeth it has the outer diameter and the shaft size  i will try to tell you the pitch and maybe where to get one. 
steve


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## jfcayron

Tom,

Thanks, I will explore. I am not bad with a torch, I might give it a try.

Steve,

I am not home now, but it is a 40-tooth gear that is used in many Atlas models. I think the chances of finding one are pretty good.
I'll post full info when I have it.

And I forgot to mention, the owner had begun to take it apart because is was sticky. This is the state I got it in. 
Not a bad deal, I could see the state of the apron parts.


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## pdentrem

All the gears are available either new or used, as for the pulley, I ran mine for years with all 4 spokes broken and simply used JB Weld to hold it all together. Good price and as it is all apart now is the time to service it, as you have mentioned.


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## xalky

Poke around on ebay for that gear. I think you'll be able to find one. There are a few vendors on there that seem to specialize in parting out old atlas and south bend lathes.


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## SamIAm

Nice score, Im sure you find time to get it back to producing parts in no time!
looking forward to seeing those resto pics too.
Sam


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## jfcayron

*Craftsman 12x36 101.27440 Resto started and gloat*

Well, I finished my inside gate project yesterday (does it qualify as a machining project? I drilled and tapped six holes on my XLO mill.)

Of course I had to do SOMETHING to the lathe, so I started with that big chuck that came on it.
It turns out it is a Buck Chuck Ajust-Tru (this is the correct spelling) 7.5" 3-jaw (model #4733).
This deal gets better by the day!

Apart from surface rust and dried-out grease it seems good as new. I will de-rust it soon.
Here are the pictures.


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## jumps4

this is getting better all the time 
nice
steve


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## SamIAm

nice take apart post! look forward t0 some before and after rust pics.


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## jfcayron

TheSniper said:


> nice take apart post! look forward t0 some before and after rust pics.



Well, you already have the "before" ones :lmao:


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## jfcayron

I experimented with electrolytic rust removal, successfully I must say.




The first victim was this toolpost/holder as it would be less of a problem if anything got damaged.
Before, the non-tightened square bolts would not move at all by hand.






After, you could turn them with 2 fingers. What seems to be remaining rust turns out to be a greasy coating with embedded steel dust. A bit of acetone removed it.
See the final result in the next post, where the chuck was cleaned as well.


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## jfcayron

After electro-cleanup and acetone cleaning, the chuck came back together and is now smooth as can be.


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## jfcayron

Now the serious stuff!

I took down the quick-change gear box. The lead screw was frozen solid, time to find out what the problem was.
Every gear, every part was coated with a varnish-looking black substance, like some black, very thick grease.



After taking apart the thing, it all went into the acetone bath.
I have no idea what "they" put in this gearbox, but it was made in hell!
Imagine thick, half dried glue (like liquid nails) but black. It does not wipe off the hands, it is nearly impossible to remove with soap, and it took 3 applications of the gritty hand cleaner to get most of it out.
The acetone got saturated really quick, and the parts still required considerable scrubbing until they came out about clean.



I am used to dipping parts in acetone, shaking a bit and wiping clean. This time it was a true nightmare.

At the end of the day, 2 gears were found to be broken: a 40-tooth one (already got the replacement) and a compound 10-1552x as seen in the picture.
I will start chasing a replacement, please let me know if you come across a specimen.


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## rickard

That looks like it was a deal and should go back together REAL NICE with some TLC


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## Old Iron

Doing a great job on it Jeff, And a good score on the chuck its worth more than what you payed for all of it.

Paul


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## rickard

The Deserter said:


> Jeff,
> 
> Harris makes low temperature solders (400F) and their "Stay-Clean" fluxes. Soldering Diecast is a little tricky though because the melting point of the solder is close to the melting point of the zinc diecast. If you are good with a torch it'll work fine, otherwise you may want to explore other options.
> 
> Tom



Tom, Jeff, Torch is not the way to go with those Kind of Solders, you'll want a a Good High Wattage Soldering Iron like an Unger Iron used by Stain Glass people. IT will Give you better control with no Metal Evaporation. You'll also want to Pre-Heat the area you're going to flux so the flux sizzles on contact then add more flux, so the solder will flow better. and once the joint cools Wash the Part in HOT SOAPY Water with a scrub brush. and a good 98-2 Silver Solder is best


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## jfcayron

Rickard, thanks for the advice. I ended up buying a replacement, so I will not try at this time.

Has anyone seen this kind of horrible gunk for grease?


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## jfcayron

Well, well! the lathe is in pieces!


Most of them are degreased and derusted thanks to a combination of electrolysis (using washing soda) and Purple Power. :thumbzup:            



The electro-cleaning cuts through most of the grease (see previous posts, ugh!) and removes most of the stock paint and all of the spray paint.:worship:            



As for the Purple Power, I bought a couple of gallons from Wal-Mart, but the product seems (very subjective) weaker than my original spray bottle. Dunno, maybe.:shrugs:            



A couple of mishaps:
- I broke the chipped countershaft pulley by stupidly grabbing it at the periphery with the gear puller. The arms are in many pieces now. Dumb.
:*****slap2:            


 - As I was trying to remove the stacked pulley from the same countershaft, I managed to shatter the top of one arm of the bracket.


The bracket is cast iron, I will braze it back together, it should be fine.:welding:            


 However, the pulley is frozen solid on the shaft.:angry: The pulley starts bending with the gear puller, but nothing moves.

I will try to find someone in the valley with a shop press to push it out. Nothing else will do, I'm afraid.:whiteflag:            


 Anyone in the Phoenix area (preferably NW) willing to help?
 



The next step will be to clean the legs of the table and the bed.


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## GK1918

Good find Jeff, I got a wild idea Ill take a bet that black stuff looks like someone brushed on that
wire rope grease or more like asphalt base, we use to brush on crane cables nasty.  When it gets
old its likely you need the torch to scrape it.  the other sam


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## jfcayron

Update:
The cleaning continued with the electrolysis of the large parts. To that effect I built a "coffin" (2x2x6) that I lined with a tarp. In goes a lot of water an a box of washing soda.





The bed came out all stripped of paint and rust, as did the bench legs etc. Does it look yucky enough? :whiteflag: I was glad to get rid of that part of the project.

The pulley? I ended up replacing it. 




The old lubricant that looked like varnish was as tough as red Loctite. I had to heat the pulley so much that the edges started to melt. No regrets, I had cracked it before it happened. :shush:

Now I am done with the cleaning/stripping. Yes, there is a complete lathe in that pile of junk.:rofl:






The broken arm is brazed back together.
Painting is complete, there will be a separate post on that. The basic headstock, the tailstock and the carriage are back together and the lathe makes chips!

Remains to reassemble the quick change gear box and the covers. BUT I still have the problem of the compound gear, if you remember.


There are 2 identical 10-1552x gears next to each other and one had its 16-teeth part crashed bad.
I got a quote from Clausing ($90) and Sears ($127), found that it was too expensive and decided to take care of it myself.





The gear is clearly in 3 parts: the bronze bushing pressed into the small gear pressed into the large gear.



The bushing came out easily. 

To separate the gears was another story. No amount of reasonable pressing (or banging) would do.
Following the good advice of my local club members, I milled radially the to the bore of the small gear, to "split the ring" so to say and hopefully relieve the pressure.
It did not budge, so I cut on the opposite side, to no avail.

Out of options, I bored out the whole hub of the small gear. It turns out lmao that the hub was somehow brazed into the bore of the bigger gear, presumably in a furnace.
Sooo I got a spur gear from McMaster-Carr and soon will be turning a sleeve to mate it to the big one. And of course I will have to skim both ends to the proper thickness.
BTW, they are 16 DP, 20° PA (NOT 14½, don't ask :angry 



Tell you Guys, I think I will have deserved my first lathe!


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## Tom Griffin

Nice work Jeff. :thumbzup:

When do we get to see the paint job?

Tom


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## davidh

exact same machine as mine, right down to the table with the cast legs.  i made a new, more stable table, 1-1/2" of plywood on a monster heavy under frame of 4/4's and 2/4's..  and my gearing is covered with open gear grease also.   but i being used a lot, its not turned to tar. 
great work.  
im suspect the gear problem was very self inflicted, crashing the carriage in and out of forward and reverse before the machine stops maybe ?  i find myself rushing the process sometimes.

oh, i put a pair of segment type belts on mine and its now very smooth and vibration free. . you may want to consider that if you haven';t.

you will really like using the machine when its finished. 

davidh


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## jfcayron

shawn said:


> Turn on the power, walk away, return in 12 hours and the part is clean, I loved it.


Yes, it just works. My lathe had been spray-painted over the factory paint. Very ugly job. Electrolysis removed all of the spray paint within minutes and 95% of the factory paint by the end of the process.


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## jfcayron

davidh said:


> oh, i put a pair of segment type belts on mine and its now very smooth and vibration free. . you may want to consider that if you haven't.



Still the original(?) belts. I will definitely look at it. Thanks.


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## Tigger

Nice job. I just purchased the same unit myself, fortunately I don't have close to the work you have accomplished. One thing my does have is a different size pulley on the countershaft which runs to the motor. I'm not sure if it is the correct diameter. Would love to know the size of the 2 steps on yours so I can verify what I have. Thanks.


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## jpfabricator

This is a little off topic but could someone start a thread on electrolisis? I would like to know more about this process. Thanks in advance for any info. By the way thats some impressive elbow grease you have applied Jeff, keep the updates coming please.:thumbsup:


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## Tony Wells

JP, we can do another one, but here's one where we discussed it. I'm about to set up a 5 gallon tank in the next few days I believe, so I'll have some pictures if needed.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/8204-Rust-removal?highlight=electrolysis

Edit to add a couple of reference sites:

http://1bad6t.com/rust_removal.html

http://www.rickswoodshopcreations.com/miscellaneous/rust_removal.htm


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## jfcayron

Tigger said:


> Would love to know the size of the 2 steps on yours so I can verify what I have.


Weeell ...  :whistle: the thing is, i have a single step pulley on my non-original motor. Can't help you just yet,  although it is a project down the road.
Maybe we can post the question on the atlas_craftsman Yahoo! group :holdphone:


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## jfcayron

Here we go...


Here is the paint job under way; it is finished now.

OK, you have seen the destroyed gear and the cleanup.
The saga continues, with a few pics of the rebuild of the missing gear.
What I find great is that I used the lathe to repair itself.








I started with a 1¼ CRS bar.












I had to learn how to grind a lathe tool, and it was *after *these pictures. I grabbed what came with the machine, it just worked, not well.
I turned a bit more than the thickness of the parent gear to an exact fit (just a bit tighter than slip).

Side note here about the step pulley/motor pulley assembly at the top of the machine.
The arbor has a slot for a woodruff key. My (old) step pulley had a slot for a woodruff key.
I bought a complete assembly (different lathe, same step pulley), took it apart, same slots on both arbor an pulley, no key.
The Atlas parts list shows ... no key. It all hangs from a single set screw.
But if you try to put any kind of torque, like a parting job, the dang thing slips like Holiday on Ice.
This explains the strange look of the parted puck; the next day I got a key, installed it and everything is rock-solid, without gouging the arbor.








After parting the piece (see comment above) I "pressed" it in place (bench vise and mallet) with a drop of green Loctite 680.





Next came the drilling, boring and facing the set to the result here. It actually looks much like the original. I did not put a bushing, we'll see how it goes. That can be retrofitted if need be.

BUT! I was not able to put everything back together.
Once the second shaft was in the box, it locked up. After checking that everything else had correct play and turned freely I discovered ANOTHER bent gear. 





It does not show much on the pictures, or in person, but most teeth of the smaller gear are bent.
I am trained for the exercise now, my replacement gear is in the mail, a few more pictures to come and hopefully the finished product.


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## pdentrem

Somebody is just giving you the gears!:thinking:
Pierre


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## jfcayron

Done!
The lathe is ready to go. I will now have to level and generally run her through her paces, but all parts are together and all functions at least seem to work.

Here is what happened last.

I got another 16DP 16t from McMaster-Carr and bored out the defective gear from its bigger sibling.




Interesting to note how deep the gearing of the smaller one goes into the other. Looks like they used off-the-shelf parts to make these.

Putting back together that QC GB was a bear, beacuse

I did not think 
I did not take enough pictures before taking it apart 
I forgot to think 
The parts list is NOT an assembly manual 
I acted before I thought 
Long story short I took it apart and put it back together at least 5 times before I got it right. But I did.
Here are the pictures of the finished work
















Oh yes, there is an indexing feature here. The part had its pin broken. Rather than fitting a new pin, I decided to turn a new partwith a button head. Just because I wanted to use the lathe. 



Well, as I said, now is the time to test and adjust.


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## wa5cab

Jeff,

I'll avoid any comments on the colour .  But looking back through the thread to the original photographs in January, that's frankly amazing!  Outstanding job.

Robert D.


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## Metalmann

Excellent write up on the build!

One thing for sure, you will know every square inch of that machine...inside out.:drink2:


That old, black, carbon, grease; is a ***** to get off. It used to make some of those old Dinosaurs sing though.

Some of those old machines craved that nasty stuff.:rofl::drink2:


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## Dranreb

Very nice work you've done there Jeff, really like look of yours standing on it's legs with the wood fitted, so I've decided to have my Atlas like that.

Do you think your wood is  original and is it hard or softwood, can you make a guess as to what  breed of tree it comes from? I reckon Ash would be a good bet.

Bernard


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## jfcayron

It looks very original, it is solid wood. As for the essence, I am utterly incompetent.


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## Dranreb

I'll just keep a lookout for something suitable then.

Had the same problem as you getting a wobbly counter-shaft pulley off, the reason mine wouldn't budge was that the key had a worn sideways notch in the keyway, no way it was coming off in one bit.

Bernard


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## jfcayron

I will ask someone if they can identify the wood. I can also take a few closeup shots.
As for my pulley, there was no key at all, that's the funny part


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## Dranreb

Thanks, it would be interesting to know the wood type..

Bernard


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## jfcayron

The color was a long internal debate.:thinking: 		

I wanted a light color for visibility and ease of cleaning, not white or gray, and did not want to copy others (Chevy orange, huh?).
My daughter who is a tattoo artist will add a design on the few flat surfaces. (Nah, painted, the needles would skip on the cast iron).:rofl:

When I get to restore my XLO milling machine, it will receive the same color paint.

Thanks for all your nice comments.


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## Uncle Buck

You did an absolutely beautiful job of restoring that machine. I won't say anything about the color you selected either. However, that 3 jaw concerns me a bit. Functionally it looks like it fits and it looks like even with stocked chucked into it the jaws will clear the ways while it is in use. With that said, to me that chuck looks just too big for that machine even though functionally it fits. I do not think that Atlas was ever made to swing that much mass on the end of the spindle and I think in the end your headstock bearings are going to pay a price for that weight. 

I could be way wrong, but it just looks like far too much weight to me. I will try to insert an image of my totally original Atlas/Craftsman 12" lathe for you to compare against. Either way though you did an outstanding job!

The first 2 pictures will give you an idea of the size of my original 3 jaw as it came with the machine. Pictures further down show my original equipment 4 jaw which while it is a greater diameter, it has hollowed out cavities in the back of the chuck due to it's design which results in much less weight in the chuck. Hopefully, I am all wrong and you are just fine as you are but at least the concern is worth consideration and possible discussion.


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## wa5cab

Uncle Buck,

The chuck should be OK.  I've been running a Pratt Bernerd 6" that looks pretty much like it on my 3996 since about 1982.  As I age faster than the lathe, it's gotten heavy enough in recent years that I built a wood install/remove stand out of a piece of 4x4 so I didn't have to worry about either my fingers or the ways when I install or remove it.  The machine still has its original spindle bearings with no measurable end float or radial play.

Robert D.


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## Tony Wells

Considering that the spindle bearings are designed to support a pretty large workpiece, plus cutting forces, I don't think the chuck up-size is a problem. It might pose accelerated wear if you maxed out the capacity of that chuck AND were really pushing the cut, but for typical light hobby use, I don't see a problem. It's not like going from a 6" to a 12". That could amount to 4x the chuck weight alone, plus the temptation to put larger workpieces in it. But then again, you would be restricted in -Z- to what you could work just chucking, as you still couldn't swing any more over the cross slide regardless of the chuck size.


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## kd4gij

I agree hi chuck is fine. I have had an 8"  three jaw with 2 pice jaws on my 101.07403 for 10 years with no problems. The timken bearings will suport it just fine.


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## Uncle Buck

wa5cab said:


> Uncle Buck,
> 
> The chuck should be OK.  I've been running a Pratt Bernerd 6" that looks pretty much like it on my 3996 since about 1982.  As I age faster than the lathe, it's gotten heavy enough in recent years that I built a wood install/remove stand out of a piece of 4x4 so I didn't have to worry about either my fingers or the ways when I install or remove it.  The machine still has its original spindle bearings with no measurable end float or radial play.
> 
> Robert D.





Tony Wells said:


> Considering that the spindle bearings are designed to support a pretty large workpiece, plus cutting forces, I don't think the chuck up-size is a problem. It might pose accelerated wear if you maxed out the capacity of that chuck AND were really pushing the cut, but for typical light hobby use, I don't see a problem. It's not like going from a 6" to a 12". That could amount to 4x the chuck weight alone, plus the temptation to put larger workpieces in it. But then again, you would be restricted in -Z- to what you could work just chucking, as you still couldn't swing any more over the cross slide regardless of the chuck size.





kd4gij said:


> I agree hi chuck is fine. I have had an 8"  three jaw with 2 pice jaws on my 101.07403 for 10 years with no problems. The timken bearings will suport it just fine.



Glad to hear this, I probably don't give these lathes the credit they deserve. I just chalk it up to the relentless badmouthing I have read on other machinist forums through the years giving me a bit of a complex about my old Atlas machines and their capabilities. Though my Atlas machines have done everything I have asked of them. I am thankful for this place and being able to discuss the Atlas brand without being dogpiled and beat for my machines.


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## jfcayron

Thank you Sir.


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## confederatemule

jfcayron, you have done wonders with what you started with. Stand proud! Please do a photo session as you restore your mill.

Uncle Buck, your lathe looks like it just came off of the show room floor.

Mule


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## Uncle Buck

confederatemule said:


> jfcayron, you have done wonders with what you started with. Stand proud! Please do a photo session as you restore your mill.
> 
> Uncle Buck, your lathe looks like it just came off of the show room floor.
> 
> Mule



Thank you, I lucked out it looked like that when I bought it. Machine is heavily tooled with very little use.


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## mrbreezeet1

i'll bet you could JB weld that pulley.
yes, maybe it is fine as is.



TomG said:


> Nice find Jeff.
> 
> The tooling makes whatever you paid for it a good deal. It would likely cost more than the lathe to buy all of it separately.
> 
> That gear can be repaired by dovetailing some material (aluminum would be a good choice) into the damaged area and re-cutting the teeth. There is also solder available that is compatible with zinc. You could build up the area with that and re-cut the teeth. Might be more trouble than it's worth though since the gears are probably readily available. Check with *Plaza Machinery*.
> 
> The chipped pulley won't hurt a thing.
> 
> Tom


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## itsme_Bernie

I restored an Atlas 618 that was in MUCH worse shape than that, and ran perfectly when I was done!


Bernie


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## jfcayron

Quick update:
The lathe came with a single 2" motor pulley. That robbed me of both ends of the speed range. It should be 28-2072 RPM with the original dual pulley, but with that one it went 35-906 RPM.
Our friends on the Atlas-Craftsman Yahoo! group have the plans for the original pulley, so I made one from 4 1/2" round Al stock.
It came out pretty nice, happy with it.


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## wa5cab

You'll find the same drawing in our Downloads.  (I happen to take care of both Downloads and Files on the main Atlas Yahoo Group so most files can be found either place).


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## jfcayron

wa5cab said:


> You'll find the same drawing in our Downloads.  (I happen to take care of both Downloads and Files on the main Atlas Yahoo Group so most files can be found either place).


I did not realize that. Thanks so much for taking care of those libraries.


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## Round in circles

jfcayron said:


> Rickard, thanks for the advice. I ended up buying a replacement, so I will not try at this time.
> 
> Has anyone seen this kind of horrible gunk for grease?


 
Many times it is very old grease that has dried out .
I've used half a gallon of Nitro Mors cellulose paint stripper in a big earthenware pot to soak it off .. leave every thing in the pot for a week with it covered over by a good lid and hey presto  they are are most clean as you pick them out . give what's left a rub with and old paint brush & they end up looking like new . The used stripper goes back into the can for future de-greasing jobs 
 The stuff I've currently got in the steel can is several years old & nearly as black as the crap it's been used to take off, but still carries on being useful .


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## Round in circles

Dranreb said:


> Very nice work you've done there Jeff, really like look of yours standing on it's legs with the wood fitted, so I've decided to have my Atlas like that.
> 
> Do you think your wood is  original and is it hard or softwood, can you make a guess as to what  breed of tree it comes from? I reckon Ash would be a good bet.
> 
> Bernard


 

My Atlas  table top ( original ) is beech with  beech nosings fitted to the edges .. it handles oil far better than the more open grained woods     ie. does not swell up as much  & is reluctant to splinter .


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