# Ok, so it's just a REAL little thing on my PM-1228 lathe...



## Tired&Retired (Jan 9, 2022)

When I got my PM-1228 last year, I noticed right off the bat that it was missing the model number and specs label on the front of the lathe.  I contacted Matt about it, and he said he would order one for me and he should have it in a few months with the next shipment. Well a year later, Matt says he can't get one from the manufacturer. He seemed to be having some difficulties with that manufacturer, so I am not sure what is going on about getting a label that was missing. So it appears I am just SOL.  Yeah, a little thing, but darn it, I just feel slighted somehow.  I asked Matt about what was going to be on newer shipments coming in, and whether a label from them would be available, and I did not receive any response.  I guess he just got tired of talking to me about such a minor thing.

So this got me wondering, how many other people who have gotten a 1228 within the past year and a half are missing that label too?  I know, it doesn't make the lathe any less of a machine, but I find myself pretty particular about such details.  Heck, anyone concerned with something being 0.001" out of tolerance is likely going to have this trait, right?  And I guess I am pretty curious as to just why exactly that label has been excluded from my machine, and possibly others?  I sure hate to have to take a magic marker and write the model number on the thing so when I get older and can't remember what it is, I will have that number right there to remind me.  

Don't get me wrong, I do like the lathe and wouldn't return it even if I could. But would I have purchased it had I known that label would be missing?  Well, I can't really answer that one. After that run-in I had with a cheap China-Bay lathe, I am sure I would be hesitant.


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## pdentrem (Jan 9, 2022)

I can take a picture of ours and you can get a vinyl shop to print one for you.
Pierre


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## Bryan40g (Jan 9, 2022)

Tired&Retired said:


> When I got my PM-1228 last year, I noticed right off the bat that it was missing the model number and specs label on the front of the lathe.  I contacted Matt about it, and he said he would order one for me and he should have it in a few months with the next shipment. Well a year later, Matt says he can't get one from the manufacturer. He seemed to be having some difficulties with that manufacturer, so I am not sure what is going on about getting a label that was missing. So it appears I am just SOL.  Yeah, a little thing, but darn it, I just feel slighted somehow.  I asked Matt about what was going to be on newer shipments coming in, and whether a label from them would be available, and I did not receive any response.  I guess he just got tired of talking to me about such a minor thing.
> 
> So this got me wondering, how many other people who have gotten a 1228 within the past year and a half are missing that label too?  I know, it doesn't make the lathe any less of a machine, but I find myself pretty particular about such details.  Heck, anyone concerned with something being 0.001" out of tolerance is likely going to have this trait, right?  And I guess I am pretty curious as to just why exactly that label has been excluded from my machine, and possibly others?  I sure hate to have to take a magic marker and write the model number on the thing so when I get older and can't remember what it is, I will have that number right there to remind me.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I do like the lathe and wouldn't return it even if I could. But would I have purchased it had I known that label would be missing?  Well, I can't really answer that one. After that run-in I had with a cheap China-Bay lathe, I am sure I would be hesitant.


I didn’t receive one on mine delivered in October either. Not a big deal.  Hadn’t even realized it til reading this. Oh well It’s in the manual. I do wish the machine had come with an actual manual and not just online. I had FedEx make me a cool bound one with thick coated paper which is very helpful.


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## Just for fun (Jan 9, 2022)

Maybe you will have to have one made. 






						Metalphoto Process- Certified Metalphoto Nameplates Converter
					

Highest Quality Metalphoto Process. 1 of 8 Metalphoto Certified Converters. ITAR, UL, AS9100, ISO9001 Printer of mil-std-130 n, ASTM B209 -10, UL 969 Labels




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## markba633csi (Jan 9, 2022)

I think it looks better without it, actually 
Gives the machine character, different from the rest
-M


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## B2 (Jan 9, 2022)

Wow!  That does not sound like Matt.  Maybe he was just traveling or involved with other things.  He seems to do a lot of that.   He has always seemed very helpful for me and others.    

Does it have the other labels and a serial number?  Not having a serial number is almost worst than not having the rest of the label.  I went to the website and looked at the add.  It does not appear to say where the lathe in made.  If made in China, missing things or bad specs is not uncommon.  Anyway, I agree with you when missing something like the front panel label you wonder what else might be wrong!  Check things out really well, especially the mechanics.  I have the China PM940M CNC VS mill and have found several things that are just not made very well!  Others say theirs is ok.  So inconsistency or quality control is an issue from China.

Dave


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## Tom1948 (Jan 9, 2022)

I sympathize with you. I am kind of OCD about such things.


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## jwmay (Jan 9, 2022)

It's been a little hectic for a couple years now for international trade. Maybe you could have one made with an extra model designation- Covid Edition -


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## Tired&Retired (Jan 9, 2022)

pdentrem said:


> I can take a picture of ours and you can get a vinyl shop to print one for you.
> Pierre


Hey, that would be great if you don't mind doing that for me. Thanks!


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## Tired&Retired (Jan 9, 2022)

Bryan40g said:


> I didn’t receive one on mine delivered in October either. Not a big deal.  Hadn’t even realized it til reading this. Oh well It’s in the manual. I do wish the machine had come with an actual manual and not just online. I had FedEx make me a cool bound one with thick coated paper which is very helpful.


Did you get the motor (2 HP (1500 W) brushless dc) as listed in the manual, or did you get the 1100 watt version like I did?


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## 7milesup (Jan 9, 2022)

Tired&Retired said:


> Did you get the motor (2 HP (1500 W) brushless dc) as listed in the manual, or did you get the 1100 watt version like I did?


That would tick me off....


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## Tired&Retired (Jan 11, 2022)

7milesup said:


> That would tick me off....


Apparently there was a period of time when PM was selling the PM-1228 lathes with only the 1100 watt (1.4 hp) motors in them.  Before that period, they were selling them with the 1500 watt (2 hp) motors, and apparently sometime recently they have switched back to selling them with that 2 hp motor. I bought mine on October 15, 2020.  So I guess what I got was the "B grade" model of the PM-1228 that was downgraded during that period.  Interestingly enough, the operator's manual all along claimed to have the 2 hp motor in the machines shown in the specs.

Tick me off?  Well, sorta.  But only when I think about it.  I am thinking that the reason the spec label got omitted from this model was probably because it showed the spec of the 1.4 hp motor instead of the 2 hp motor on it.  And further thinking back on it, I am now wondering if my doing knurling on that 1.5" diameter stock I was working with didn't bog down the motor instead of slip the drive belt on the pulleys.  I am using the scissors style knurling tool and I was clamping down on the aluminum rod pretty hard.

Anyway, I am thinking maybe I should contact Matt to see if he can conjure up a 2 hp replacement motor for me somehow to get me out of this "B grade" feeling I have about the lathe I got from him. Looking for a correct replacement drive belt for it has had me thinking about the motor a LOT lately, and it is preying on my mind.  Things like this can really nag the crap out of me. With everything else going on in the world lately, I was able to just blot it out with higher priority thoughts.  But here it is rising back to the surface again.

When I mentioned this to Matt right after I got my lathe, he said I wouldn't notice any different between the 1100 watt motor and the 1500 watt motor.  But since they have gone back to selling it with that 1500 watt motor, well, if there is no difference, why go back to the more powerful motor?  I dunno, guess I am just feeling a little shafted by it.


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## mikey (Jan 11, 2022)

Tired&Retired said:


> I dunno, guess I am just feeling a little shafted by it.



I don't blame you, I would feel the same. There is a big difference between 1.4 and 2 HP. I don't think PM did this to be deceptive, though. It is more likely that the 1.4 HP motor was available and the 2 HP wasn't and PM opted to install them so they could get the machines out to folks who were not so patiently waiting for their machines. I'm making this up but Matt has proven to be a stand up guy and it would be a good idea to have a discussion with him. He has shown himself to make things right.


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## woodchucker (Jan 11, 2022)

that would bother me. You should have a label with model and serial #. The serial # should tell them what to pull parts from.
Also the motor would definitely **** me off. 2hp is 2hp.. less means $$$ back.


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## Dabbler (Jan 11, 2022)

So here's my take on things.  You *really* want a label - and yet in the bigger scheme of things (does the lathe perform as expected, etc) it is a 'smaller' thing.  So how about asking if he will pay for a 3rd party to make a machine label for it in *approximately* the same format?  This isn't completely unreasonable, and several machinery label companies will do something appropriate for 20 to 40 bucks.

Even if the discussions with Matt don't get you one, you can purchase one from one of these companies, and use the model from @pdentrem photo...


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## pdentrem (Jan 11, 2022)




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## B2 (Jan 11, 2022)

If you are going to pay to print your own, you might as well put your own logo and company name on it!!!  If you do not have a company then.... then it is time to make one up!  How about "T & R Inc."


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## qualitymachinetools (Jan 11, 2022)

*When this machine was ordered, it was advertised in the web site specs as 1.5HP. *It was ordered in late 2020.

Nobody was hiding anything. It was only changed because at the time we ordered machines, there was an exemption for the extra 25% tariffs that are coming in from China on lathes 1.5HP or under.  We were trying to save us and customers a lot of money by changing this from a 2HP to 1.5HP Machine.   Guess what, 1.5 is rounded off a lot of times by many companies to 2HP anyway.  

     We also ordered our PM-1236 in with a 1.5HP Motor, and it was saving us enough to do a free upgrade to a Baldor motor at that time too.   Comes in at 1.5 HP so no tariff, change to Baldor, same result, US Made Motor.   Tried to save money for all.      Look up the exemptions, its somewhere in that 301 tariff BS I dont have hours to look it up again. We have a broker who alerts us on these kinds of things.

Look at the price on them now compared to when you bought it a year ago.

But, by the time this shipment of the 1228 and 1236 came in (LATE as always anymore) the exemption expired, so we had to eat it anyway.

They changed, they dont put the spec sticker on the machine anymore. I couldn't get a sticker that they do not make anymore. None of our other machines had a spec sticker on them, so it made sense not to have it anymore. I do not have one or I would have sent it of course. But they dont make them anymore.

I did not ignore you, I have over 120 something that have been answered over the past 2 years from you when I just searched, if I missed one email, I am sorry, but that doesn't happen often.  

If you don't like the machine, send it back, life is too short to be unhappy.


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## Winegrower (Jan 11, 2022)

qualitymachinetools said:


> , I have over 120 something that have been answered over the past 2 years from you


This got my attention.


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## qualitymachinetools (Jan 11, 2022)

Regarding the 120 number, All good conversation or questions, was just stating the number as I just searched it to see if I missed something. Nothing against him there


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## Dabbler (Jan 11, 2022)

Since it is single colour in aluminum, it'll proly be about 20$ to have a custom one made from the photo if you *really* wanna.

As usual, thanks @qualitymachinetools for your willingness to engage and try to make things right.


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## Tired&Retired (Jan 11, 2022)

qualitymachinetools said:


> Regarding the 120 number, All good conversation or questions, was just stating the number as I just searched it to see if I missed something. Nothing against him there



And yet you felt it important enough to bring up here.  How many of those emails were to ask you about flaws, deficiencies and just general other things that only you could answer?  How many were just so I could fix that problem with the spindle taper being off, and NONE of my chucks fitting properly, such that I needed to either fix it or replace the spindle? Should I have just assumed that I was on my own with that and not bothered you about it? So tell me, exactly what is that number of messages beyond which you feel you are being overly burdened with conversations with a customer?  I will try real hard not to exceed that number in 2022.

I asked you for a price for the 2 hp replacement motor so I could just buy it outright.  Your reply was that I was wasting my money doing that. That I would not gain anything from the other motor. Was that a refusal to sell one to me? Of course, that begs the question of why did you go back to providing the 2 hp motor in this lathe if the 1.4 hp motor would suffice?

Is it being unreasonable of me to want the actual motor in the lathe to match what the designers felt was appropriate for this lathe and what is stated in the manual as being IN the lathe?

So my only choices are to either send back the machine or just be satisfied with that 1.4 hp motor?  Well I guess that does make me seem unreasonable, doesn't it.


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## mksj (Jan 11, 2022)

It may be that it is not only the a motor change that is involved, typically it would be matched to the driver/control board/wiring and overload settings on a DC motor. The motor actually draws  ~1.6kW, but there there is also the efficiency.


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## Tired&Retired (Jan 11, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> that would bother me. You should have a label with model and serial #. The serial # should tell them what to pull parts from.
> Also the motor would definitely **** me off. 2hp is 2hp.. less means $$$ back.



Just to make sure we are on the same page, the serial number for the machine (I assume that is what that number is) is on the back corner of the way surface.  But no, there is not even a hint of the model number anywhere on that machine. Which is fine for me knowing what model I have, but these lathes can float around for a long time, even after the original owner has passed on, and anyone getting it would not have any clue whatsoever as to what the actual model number is.  Heck, for that matter, my memory could fade to the point where I can't remember what it is neither, and SOMETHING on the machine itself could be helpful.  

And heck, having the specs right there was kind of a handy thing too, I thought.  So why remove it?  Just a coincidence, I presume, that the label delete matched up in time when the PM-1228 started coming in with the 1.4 horsepower motors in them and it would have been awkward having that label show 2 hp, when it actually was not?  Just guessing, of course.  The pictures all showed the label there when I purchased it, and to this very moment all the pictures on PM's site STILL show that label as being there.  So am I just being unreasonable?  I DID say this is just a little thing, but heck, it seems to be growing by the minute now lately.

Oh well, in for a pinch, in for a pound now, I suppose.


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## Tired&Retired (Jan 11, 2022)

mksj said:


> It may be that it is not only the a motor change that is involved, typically it would be matched to the driver/control board/wiring and overload settings on a DC motor. The motor actually draws  ~1.6kW, but there there is also the efficiency.



Interesting.  Of course, I can't tell from the manual if that would be the case or not. And I dare not email Matt about it.  I don't want to exceed my quota of emails.  

That thought causes we wonder if I have a motor failure under warranty, what would I get for a replacement?


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## brino (Jan 11, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> 2hp is 2hp..


....well that depends on where you buy your motor! ;^)



qualitymachinetools said:


> We also ordered our PM-1236 in with a 1.5HP Motor, and it was saving us enough to do a free upgrade to a Baldor motor at that time too.



I am sure a 1.5HP Baldor would beat and outlive most "2HP" motors (heavy emphasis on those quote marks!).

Brian


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## Tired&Retired (Jan 11, 2022)

pdentrem said:


> View attachment 391758
> View attachment 391759


Thanks much for the pic of the label.  It is that lower one with the model number on it that I am missing.


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## Tired&Retired (Jan 11, 2022)

brino said:


> ....well that depends on where you buy your motor! ;^)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Valid point.  But if you would suspect that the "2 HP"  Chinese motor is overly optimistic concerning the actual output then wouldn't the same rules apply for the "1.4 HP" Chinese motor?


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## pdentrem (Jan 11, 2022)

My Jet BDB1340A at work has 1.5 hp motor while I have the same lathe (a clone) from another place with a 2 hp 3 phase. I would call the 1.5 china motor a 1.5 pony power not horse power. Not even close on how much of a cut it can take while my 2 hp walks all over it.
Pierre


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## qualitymachinetools (Jan 11, 2022)

As I said earlier in an email, if you were having problems with the machine not having enough power to cut, please contact us at tech support and send details. I have not heard a bit about that though. It seems it is only worrying about what is says on the label, nothing more.                       I just do not want to see you waste your money on a new motor with zero benefit.   But its your money, you can do what you want, just no need to waste it.   You ask why we went to the 1.5HP, it was to qualify for the tariff exemption. You asked why we went back to 2HP, well see above thread, this is exactly why. So many get stuck on a HP label when comparing models.   If you want a motor we will order you one, but its a waste of money.


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## Bryan40g (Jan 11, 2022)

Tired&Retired said:


> Did you get the motor (2 HP (1500 W) brushless dc) as listed in the manual, or did you get the 1100 watt version like I did?


1500Watt here.


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## Tired&Retired (Jan 11, 2022)

qualitymachinetools said:


> As I said earlier in an email, if you were having problems with the machine not having enough power to cut, please contact us at tech support and send details. I have not heard a bit about that though. It seems it is only worrying about what is says on the label, nothing more.                       I just do not want to see you waste your money on a new motor with zero benefit.   But its your money, you can do what you want, just no need to waste it.   You ask why we went to the 1.5HP, it was to qualify for the tariff exemption. You asked why we went back to 2HP, well see above thread, this is exactly why. So many get stuck on a HP label when comparing models.   If you want a motor we will order you one, but its a waste of money.



OK Matt.  Fair enough.  I will use the motor I have and if I find that it is underpowered for my needs, than we can go from there.  And yes, I realize I get caught up in the details and am way to literal with the information presented to me.  I just like things to make sense to me, and for me to feel that I am coming away whole with any transaction I engage in.  You have said over and over again that I will receive no benefit from the "2 HP" rated motor over the "1.4 HP" motor I have, and I am going to trust in that you know what you are talking about.  You have never steered me wrong in the past, and I am going to keep the faith that this will continue.

Sorry about allowing my stressing over this to darken your day.  And thank you for taking the time to address my concerns sufficiently and satisfactorily.


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## Tired&Retired (Jan 11, 2022)

For those of you following this thread, I am requesting that it be deleted.  This is of my own volition and I have not even asked Matt about it.  He has certainly not requested it of me, nor has anyone else.  I finally figured out what really happened, and this thread serves no informational content of any value to anyone. It also can present Matt in an unwarranted unflattering light if not read in it's entirety, or misplaced assumptions are further made.

Sorry.  I wish I had figured it out earlier.


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## brino (Jan 11, 2022)

Tired&Retired said:


> if you would suspect that the "2 HP" Chinese motor is overly optimistic concerning the actual output then wouldn't the same rules apply for the "1.4 HP" Chinese motor?



Nope.
The name Baldor means something to me; they have earned some respect.

Of course, the names PM and "Quality Machine Tools" have also earned my respect.
For them it is second-hand, as I do not own any PM machines.
However, I have seen how they treat their customers and how many trusted, satisfied customers they have right here.

Brian


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## brino (Jan 11, 2022)

@Tired&Retired 

You have also recently earned some respect.
We all get stressed about things we believe we are owed, and things not currently going in our favour.
I get that, and I have also worn that yoke.....perhaps more often than I'd like to admit, even here among my friends.

I hope this thread stays (even though I have no control over it).
I believe it does contain valuable info about why a supplier might change parts and specs.
For some vendors it will be for their benefit alone (and hopefully be obvious!), for others, as here, it can be justified to everyone's benefit.

I hope you get a new label/badge that completes your machine to your satisfaction, and that you use it to it's fullest it good health!

Brian


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## Dabbler (Jan 11, 2022)

The normal policy is to leave all content for future reference.  When necessary threads are hidden from public view, but retained.


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## Tired&Retired (Jan 11, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> The normal policy is to leave all content for future reference.  When necessary threads are hidden from public view, but retained.



As you wish...  I felt obligated to make the request.


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## Dabbler (Jan 12, 2022)

I have posed the question to the staff.  We'll discuss it and decide in a day or 2.


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## B2 (Jan 12, 2022)

I vote you keep the thread.  It has valuable info in it and it seems any misunderstanding(s) have been cleared up.  Someone else may have similar issues and this seems to explain a lot.  I applaud both T& R and Matt for flushing it out.   Matt and his folks have always treated me well, but I will admit that there have been a couple of times when I wanted to let it all hang out.   

Dave


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## Cletus (Jan 12, 2022)

FWIW  I too can vouch for Matt and his team at PM.  I live down in the Caribbean (Trinidad & Tobago) so the logistics nightmare is real.  Their support and attentiveness has been nothing but stellar in my case!  Would buy from them again in a heartbeat.


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## Dabbler (Jan 12, 2022)

After an all party discussion, the thread stays up.


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