# Can we talk Super Spacers?



## wildo (May 10, 2017)

I searched around for a bit and didn't really find any threads dedicated to discussion on the Super Spacer; I thought we should have one.

In another thread, I had asked about dividing heads with large bores- of which there didn't really appear to be many (any?) options. The consensus was that a Super Spacer is where it's at when talking about large bore rotary tables. So I've been searching and searching for one on ebay that fits my needs.

I've noticed some things...


All of the Super Spacers have large (that is- larger than 5C) bores.
Some of the Super Spacers have a rotary crank while others only have the indexing plates.
Some of the Super Spacers appear to have the ability to add dividing head plates to their rotary cranks!
One certainly could use a 5C collet chuck on a Super Spacer.

Using a Buck Chuck adjustable type chuck should make for extreme angular accuracy.
I have yet to see a Super Spacer that is tilting- only the V/H positions.

So it seems to me that other than the ability to tilt, the Super Spacer seems pretty... super. You get rotary capability. You get indexing capability. You get large bore- capacity capability. You can get dividing head capability with the dividing plates. And finally you could still use 5C collets with a collet chuck.

Other than the ability to tilt, I'm failing to see why you'd get a dedicated rotary table, dedicated indexing head, and a dedicated dividing head when you could just buy a Super Spacer instead. But like all things, generally the old adage applies: "Jack of all trades, master of none."

Am I missing something? Seems to me that the Super Spacer is a pretty rad tool! Is there some weakness that I am not spotting?? If there was a Super Spacer that also included a tilting head like a dividing head does, well that would be one impressive tool!


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## Bob Korves (May 10, 2017)

Super spacers are typically used in production work, and after they are set up for a specific job, they can put out the work more quickly than some other solutions.  Most are only equipped for simple indexing, and use masking plates to achieve a limited number of specific and common dividing counts.  I have never seen a super spacer with dividing head type plates.  No doubt they exist, but are not common.  Super spacers are super expensive!  For what they do, they can be a good choice.  For a hobby machinist shop, a dividing head and a rotary table can do a wider variety of work at a much lower cost per function, though somewhat slower.  Since I do not do production work or quantity runs, I am not looking for a super spacer.  If one fell in my lap for a killer price, I might pick it up, just because...  There are other fixturing solutions for production work that are also used, many using 5C collets to hold the work.  They are also pretty pricey, but do have the ability to change out work quickly after they are set up.  In my shop I use a tilting dividing head, h/v rotary table, spin indexer, and collet blocks, and I feel pretty well prepared to take on the next hobby or repair challenge.

Edit:  The collet blocks get used more often than all the others combined, and are the cheapest.


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## gr8legs (May 10, 2017)

There are a couple of threads here and there on this site - 

"Super Spacer" seems to have devolved into something meaningless - and I'm not sure what it meant in the first place. There are spacers, spin indexes, rotary tables and combinations thereof - which may be what was originally a 'super' spacer but now the term is applied to almost any rotating work holder, depending on which Asian dialect the description is copied from.

I got one years ago when J&L had a 'super' sale and there were spare pennies in my pockets (took quite a few of them, actually) and the only advice I can give is "figure out what max size you actually will be grasping in the chuck and buy that size' as these things are HEAVY and the 8" that I got must weigh 150 pounds! If I ever need it I will have to use the shop crane to hoist it from its hiding place and mount it to the mill. 

As I intimated, I've never yet used mine but it is a way cool item. You can mount it horizontally or vertically. It has the fixed index detent with 24 slots and interchangeable plates to quickly select 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12 subdivisions from the 24 available for repetitive work. If you need odd or smaller divisions like for gear cutting or whatever the 90:1 worm gear and crank give four degrees angular rotation per turn of the crank, and the crank is graduated in degrees. Mine doesn't have index plates on the worm drive but the math is pretty easy and the angular index on the crank can be reset to wherever you want to start counting turns from.

The few times I have considered using the 8" monster  the thought of hefting it up and wrestling it into position discouraged me from giving it a whirl. I seem to end up mounting the little 5C spin index fixture with 1 degree resolution - but if something big comes along I am dialed!

Stu


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## darkzero (May 10, 2017)

I asked here yrs ago & I never got a reply to my thread, so I had to decide on my own. I love my Super Spacer but they're not for everyone. It depends on the type of stuff you make. Judging by your tops it seems like you like to make toys & gadgets like I used to. I never have the need to make gears & stuff with lots of divisions so I would rather have a Super Spacer than a dividing head (although I would like a tilting dividing head someday). A dividing head can do what a Super Spacer does but no vise versa. A Super Spacer is much quicker to use though & has a much larger through hole capacity which was important for me.

The Super Spacer with the handwheel that has a rotary table function built in is called a Super Indexer, PhaseII calls it a Super Dex. A Super Indexer sounds like the better choice & thought so too at first. But Super Indexers are very heavy. My 6" Super Spacer is around 80 lbs. The same size Super Indexer is like 110 lbs. In most cases I wouldn't be using the rotary function of it anyway. A Super Indexer is also much bulkier. I don't have a full size knee mill, when looking at the dimensions of a Super Indexer I determined that the handwheel would get in the way on my mill. I choose to go with a 6" Super Spacer & an 8" rotary table rather than a 6" or 8" Super Indexer. Weight was a very important factor and a 6" Super Spacer is plenty big for me, I'd be happy with a 5" Super Spacer if there was an affordable one available. The 8" rotary table gives me more area on the RT table & I maybe at some point in life I would no longer be able to lift a Super Indexer onto the table anymore. And I can always add dividing plates to my rotary table to give me some indexing like a dividing head.

My Super Spacer is a 6" but it actually has a 6.5" 3-jaw chuck. The through hole is 1.73" which is actually larger than the spindle bore on my 12x36 lathe. So much more capacity than a dividing head. The chuck is adjustable (TIR) so it can be very accurate, not many dividing heads have adjustable chucks. Super Spacer can't use a center & they can't do divisions of 5 like for a wheel bolt pattern. You could mount a center in the chuck though if needed. There's also faceplates available for the Super Spacers, for a 6" Super Spacer, the faceplate is 8"Ø. Because of the mounting plate for the adjustable chuck, you would have to make a beefy adapter to mount a 5C collet chuck. Not that it can't be done, just not practical. A 5C indexer would be a much cheaper solution if you want to use 5C collets.

A Super Spacer is very useful for me because of it's masking abilities, it saves so much time. There was a a long period of time where I used the Super Spacer more than a vise. I finally got me some collet blocks cause there were times I just needed to cut something quick & it saves setup time. But the collet blocks are very limited in size.

My Super Spacer is the same exact thing as a PhaseII only it's not branded PhaseII & costs much less. I believe this style of Super Spacer was originally made by Hartford & is where the name came from? Yes mine is made in China but surprising the quality of it is pretty damn good. I got mine from Utoole. They've gone up a bit since I purchased mine but still way cheaper than others.

Here's a thread showing how I modified mine to bolt directly on my mill table. It shows what the chuck mount looks like in reference to your 5C chuck idea.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/super-spacer-adjustment.25661/


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## wildo (May 10, 2017)

darkzero- now you're talking my language! Really good info there. The reality for me (perhaps not now, but in the future definitely) is that milling the end of a piece of stock like this will be a very necessary:







How are you going to hold a 1.121" x 7" long rod in a rotary table, dividing head, or spin indexer? There is a 1 1/8" 5C collet, but it's not a pass-thru collet. When you're talking about the .078" parting blade itself literally wasting  $11.58 of material, you really want to work from the end of the material rather than cutting off a 2" chunk, putting it in a rotary table, doing my milling on the end, and then cutting my .100" thick slice off (final product size).  But at $148/inch you're talking $282 of waste to cut off a chunk to mount in a collet! No thanks!

For me, at least when I decide I'm brave enough to drop $1K on a 7" piece of metal, being able to machine just the very end and part off a small slice will be a HUGE reduction in overall cost to make the thing I want to make.


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## wildo (May 10, 2017)

darkzero said:


> Super Spacer can't use a center & they can't do divisions of 5 like for a wheel bolt pattern.



Why can't a Super Spacer do divisions of 5? Simply because a 5 notch indexing plate isn't available? Or is there something that physically limits its ability to do divisions of 5?


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## cjtoombs (May 10, 2017)

wildo said:


> Why can't a Super Spacer do divisions of 5? Simply because a 5 notch indexing plate isn't available? Or is there something that physically limits its ability to do divisions of 5?


If they come with a 24 division plate, 5 does not divide evenly into 24.  I suspect it may be difficult to change the division plate to 25 to do 5 hole circles.


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## wildo (May 10, 2017)

Right- so it's simply a matter of not having a 5 division masking plate? I believe they typically come with 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, and 12 division masking plates. And I *think* that the 24 division is built in?

Oh..... Might have just answered my own question. So if the 24 division plate is built in and the masking plates, well, MASK the main plate, then of course only options divisible by 24 would be available. Gotchya!!


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## darkzero (May 10, 2017)

wildo said:


> darkzero- now you're talking my language! Really good info there. The reality for me (perhaps not now, but in the future definitely) is that milling the end of a piece of stock like this will be a very necessary:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yup, I hear you on that! I've been meaning get me a piece of damasteel rod but I haven't been able to push my self to pull the trigger yet.

Are you on the USN?



wildo said:


> Why can't a Super Spacer do divisions of 5? Simply because a 5 notch indexing plate isn't available? Or is there something that physically limits its ability to do divisions of 5?



Sorry, I should have been more specific, it can't mask divisions of 5. The main index ring has 24 divisions & the masking plates mask off of that. You can use the index marks to do divisions of 5 though.


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## wildo (May 10, 2017)

darkzero said:


> Are you on the USN?



I don't know what the USN is, so I'm going with no.


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## darkzero (May 10, 2017)

wildo said:


> I don't know what the USN is, so I'm going with no.



Oh man....you might hate me but I'll shoot you a PM.


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