# New To Welding



## mzvarner (Aug 21, 2016)

As the title says, i am new to welding. It is a skill i want to become profficient at as one day i want to own property and i also like to be some what self sufficient. My first welder was a lincoln buzz box. It works, but i am learning that stick welding is not necissarily the greates "do it all" process. It puts a lot of heat into the work and can easily blow through small gage material (however, it works very well for building a pistol dueling tree!)

I am thinking I would like to buy a multi-process machine, because my wife and i just moved and I want to do some DIY furniture builds as i work towards profficient status. I am leaning towards a lincoln powermig 210. This machine seems to be well liked by those that use it. I am aware that most feel that the multi process units dont do anything great, but does them all good enough. But am i overlooking other machines?

I want to stay with a big name brand that has a support base and easily aquired replacement and add on parts. I do not see a need to weld aluminum (yet) as long as I can learn to tig thin gauge steel (to keep furniture weight down).

Thanks.


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## Smithdoor (Aug 21, 2016)

Stick was my first welding 
You find MIG is best one to use for most work including AL

Happy Welding
Dave


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## Smithdoor (Aug 21, 2016)

Note A simple Mig welder is best for your first welder.
My first was not

Dave


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## Uglydog (Aug 21, 2016)

1. Think about Duty Cycle! Waiting for a machine to cool is annoying.
2. Check the gauge of copper from your panel to the machine. Make sure she will power what you are purchasing or plan to upgrade the run.
3. I won't go on about safety precautions in this thread.
4. Finding a reliable machine which can be locally serviced and supported by your LWS is huge! 

Daryl
MN


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## Eddyde (Aug 21, 2016)

I had a Stick welder for over 20 years before I got a MIG. I found, the MIG, was much easier learn how to produce  good welds. Stick is good if you are welding outdoors on heavier steel. If you go for MIG get a good one as quality matters with these machines.


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## Smithdoor (Aug 21, 2016)

Both Uglydor and Eddyde have good points
The other way is to size the welder for power this saves money upgrading power supply
Most welders take 110v 20A, 220/240V 20A, 220/240V 30A and 220/240V 50A
If dryer's plug all most all are  220/240V 30A This will work great for most welding

The MIG, was much easier learn how to produce  good welds. Note most simple welders have plaque in side that give all setting need

Dave



Uglydog said:


> 1. Think about Duty Cycle! Waiting for a machine to cool is annoying.
> 2. Check the gauge of copper from your panel to the machine. Make sure she will power what you are purchasing or plan to upgrade the run.
> 3. I won't go on about safety precautions in this thread.
> 4. Finding a reliable machine which can be locally serviced and supported by your LWS is huge!
> ...





Eddyde said:


> I had a Stick welder for over 20 years before I got a MIG. I found, the MIG, was much easier learn how to produce  good welds. Stick is good if you are welding outdoors on heavier steel. If you go for MIG get a good one as quality matters with these machines.


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## Ironken (Aug 21, 2016)

http://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.c...o-set-multiprocess-welder-with-tig-kit-951674

Comes WITH TIG kit.


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## JR49 (Aug 21, 2016)

Mzvarner,  I have had the Power mig 210 for about 6 months, and am very happy with it.  A novice can simply tell it what you are doing (metal thickness, electrode size, select mig, tig, or stick), and the welder will determine the settings. However,A more experienced welder, can change the computer settings to whatever he wants.  For mig or stick, you get everything you need, except the gas bottle (for mig), but be warned, if you want to do tig, it will cost 350-500 more fore needed tig accesories, and even then, you can’t weld aluminum as it has no AC setting. On the plus side, if you've never stick welded with a DC stick welder,  you will be surprized how much easier it is to weld thin stuff on low amps, and still strike and hold a steady arc.  In summary, IMHO, this is a great machine for mig, and stick. When I decide to get into tig, I will look at tig only machines,as I will be wanting it mostly for aluminum.  Hope this helps,  JR49


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## Subwayrocket (Aug 21, 2016)

For MIG I have a Millermatic 211 , they are a good all around machine for up to about 1/4" material. It can do thin gauge stuff but I use the TIG for anything very thin or requiring fine control . MIG is not too bad learning but TIG is kind of like learning a musical instrument, there is a learning curve for the hand coordination...Takes about a year to get get going with that . Go on youtube and check out weldingtipsandtricks , Jody Collier is a very good teacher and lays things out in plain English. Good luck man !


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## Fabrickator (Aug 22, 2016)

I bought a Hobart (Miller) 140 MIG for minor repairs and hobby stuff because it was 110V.  In retrospect, I wish I would have bought the 180/220v (same size) because the little 140 can only weld 1/8" - 3/16" steel efficiently.  I also bought a small Hypertherm 380 (110v) plasma and it will cut 1/4" easily.

My plan was to practice on these and buy a larger/real machine when I retire and have a larger shop.  I've decided that I need a welder that will handle 1/4" efficiently, like the Miller 211.


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## mzvarner (Aug 22, 2016)

Thanks for all the comments and advice. My plan was to buy the lincoln 210 package that comes with all the tig, mig, and stick gear (buy once cry once). I could then use the stick and mig and later learn with tig.

I am only looking at dual power or 220 only machines as i am going to wire my new garage for it. As mentioned i do a lot of shooting, so making targets is important to me and it seems that 3/16 thickness is a minimum, and on the flip side the furniture my wife and i want is going to be thin gauge to save on weight.

A plasma cutter is definately on my list. I have a oxy acetylene torch setup but, again, it puts so much heat into the work so thin stuff gets warped. I also have a little 7x10 lathe that i got tired of using a hacksaw to cut 2 inch diameter aluminum for, so i got a dewalt portable band saw and plan to get a SWAG stand for it.


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## Subwayrocket (Aug 22, 2016)

Think hard before buying a multi function machine. It looks good on paper , but in reality a dedicated machine is usually better. Get a Lincoln or Miller 200 amp range and Dual voltage 120/220 . You want 220 capability.


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## mzvarner (Aug 22, 2016)

Subwayrocket said:


> Think hard before buying a multi function machine. It looks good on paper , but in reality a dedicated machine is usually better.



Can you elaborate on this some? I read this all over the internet when this kind of question comes up. The only explanation i see is the multi process machines "do it all" but dont do any process particularly well. Also can you recommend a dedicated mig machine and stick machine? 

In my mind i see mig as being my go to process for around the house and as a hobbiest. But i still want to maintain the ability to use stick as needed. Honestly tig is not really that important to me.


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## Subwayrocket (Aug 22, 2016)

Those kinds of posts all over the web are mostly correct. They will do many things pretty good but a dedicated machine is usually better in anything like this. And switching from mig to Tig is not just flip of a switch. Look at Mill/Lathe combos . It's a cool thing but dedicated is usually better. For Mig I have Millermatic 211 transformer model its a good one , a comparable Lincoln would be fine too. Inverters are fine too, and weigh alot less. Try to get a dual 120/220 machine in the 200 amp range . Get a cheap used tombstone Buzzbox for stick. You could probably find a small used Tig machine DC only just to learn on.....it's 50/50 whether you will like Tig , if u do then great, if not just sell the used little Tig for close to what u paid . Don't invest alot in Tig until u see if u like it. Again, it's like learning a musical instrument. There's a learning curve. Good luck man !


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## brino (Aug 22, 2016)

mzvarner said:


> In my mind i see mig as being my go to process for around the house and as a hobbiest. But i still want to maintain the ability to use stick as needed. Honestly tig is not really that important to me.



Yup stick-only to MIG is an upgrade. It allows thinner material, weld for many minutes without changing electrodes, etc. However, stick will always have a place in my shop for heavy stuff, out in the wind, stuff that's a little dirtier/rustier than I'd like, that cannot be cleaned properly.

MIG(flux core) to MIG(gas shield) is another upgrade. No smoke, little spatter, but the cost of gas means it's a little more expensive. I did some repairs to the local Scout groups canoe trailer, and fell back to gas-less; it too will always have a place.

With TIG I am finding that it too opens up new avenues, but also requires more skill. Maybe it's just an "old dog, new trick" thing, I have had the other welding machines for years, but don't feel I have the knack for it yet. A musical instrument is a good analogy (thanks @Subwayrocket ).......and I need much more practice before I can TIG weld an Carnegie Hall.

Really, what I see is a spectrum of ways to do each welding job, and you need to know what tool is most appropriate for that particular job.....of course it means you end up spending a bunch of money on a shop full of tools.

-brino


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## JimDawson (Aug 22, 2016)

If I were buying a stick welder for home shop use, I would be looking for one of the *old* Lincoln tombstone welders.  As I recall they were 180 or 225 amp.  They came in both AC only and AC/DC models.  Completely bulletproof.  No electronics, lots of copper and iron in the transformer, and a heavy duty switch for changing the current.  I built a whole sawmill with one of those. Probably will last 500 years or more.  I see them for sale in the $75 to $150 range.

I would be looking for one about 30 years old.



I have no specific recommendation on a MIG.  I bought a Lincoln 135, 120V model at Home Depot a number of years ago and it is still working OK.  It welds 1/4 inch OK, or heavier with multiple passes.  I wish I had bought the 240V model, it would be nice to have a little more power.


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## mzvarner (Aug 22, 2016)

I have a lincoln buzz box. Its ac only, and i tried a dc stick welder and it was much nicer. Would love to trade my ac for an ac/dc.


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## Smithdoor (Aug 23, 2016)

If look at welders look at your needs
1. Type of work most will all most never weld over 1/2" [13mm] Type welding is less than 1/4" [6.35mm]
2. So if this all you doing do not buy a machine that can welded a battle ship this type of machine will need 240v 200 amp 3 phase service  Do not do a Tim the tool man bigger is better.
3. Look at your service most home shops will have at most 240v 50 amp  plug and a service to home of 100 to 200 amps
4. If you not doing a lot of welding and most time is mild steel look at flux core wire and machine. This type does not need gas bottle that cost to fill and leak all the gas.
5. Is cost of the welding machine it is how must you planning on weld if just few time a month look at the low cost mig  welders from HF or Amazon both well do the job
6. If you are planning on welding ever day of week get a good name brand a good one will cost over $2,000 and will only do mig or tig/stick not both. This type can be found that use 240v 50 amp plug single phase great if you working from home or renting a shop (not all shop will have 3 phase power)

Dave

PS
I have owned MIG welder CP750 this was 750 amp mig welder use it on 480v 100amp plug , but I was working full time it steel fab. To day I have a simple MIG welder that works on 120 v 20 amp plug Low cost ($93.00) from Amazon works great for all my needs. Note if it breaks just buy a new one for low of price.





mzvarner said:


> As the title says, i am new to welding. It is a skill i want to become profficient at as one day i want to own property and i also like to be some what self sufficient. My first welder was a lincoln buzz box. It works, but i am learning that stick welding is not necissarily the greates "do it all" process. It puts a lot of heat into the work and can easily blow through small gage material (however, it works very well for building a pistol dueling tree!)
> 
> I am thinking I would like to buy a multi-process machine, because my wife and i just moved and I want to do some DIY furniture builds as i work towards profficient status. I am leaning towards a lincoln powermig 210. This machine seems to be well liked by those that use it. I am aware that most feel that the multi process units dont do anything great, but does them all good enough. But am i overlooking other machines?
> 
> ...


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## ddickey (Aug 23, 2016)

I bought an ESAB rebel emp 215ic. Really nice machine and good quality also.


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## Riotwarrior (Aug 25, 2016)

Go to friends who weld...try various methods if they let ya.

Look at their machines.

I AM NOT A WELDER.....I can however offer insight.

Welded off and on for 20 years. Mostly AC stick mild steel projects be it work home or a friends shop.

Also done some body sheetmetal...mig...both gas 030 and gassless 030....both work well...one messier and tad more difficult.

 Ever used DC stick yet nore a Tig machine.

Currently I got an old AC buzzer runs bout 190 amps max IIRC and depending on rod lays 1 mofo nice bead. 

Also have 220V 155 amp Lincon Mig on gas...quick easy and nice but I weld tons outside on old farm implememnts.

Recently have an 80amp 110V mig...mastercraft runnin 030 flux....honestly quite impressed...bas gas provisions and I have gas ...just been too lazy to test.

So far 1/8" material and that 110v mig does fine....as a matter of fact its lately my go to box....tack all my tacks 110 and run the stick once done.

Rods 

7018, 8018 1/8"
7014, 8014 1/8"
7024 1/8" 

Again...seeing as I am not a welder I do no have tons to offer except play as much as you can before you buy.

Right now I am leaning towards an everlast AC/DC Tig SMAW machine....

Play with every type and machine you can....then decide


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## Smithdoor (Aug 31, 2016)

The basics is what are you welding
My self when I had shop we weld steel ever day
There was no need to a Torch, Stick or TIG welder on ever day use.
The MIG welders on had 0.045 wire E71T-1 with CO2. Stick was the back up only
Even the the torch where cutting type (Victor ST1900). Most time if some need to brazed we use a cutting torch with MAPP gas
I did buy a TIG welder and no one used it just played with it was waste of money for my shop
FYI when had shop I did find a lot of money wasters very few paid off.

So what do you plan to weld ???

Dave



mzvarner said:


> As the title says, i am new to welding. It is a skill i want to become profficient at as one day i want to own property and i also like to be some what self sufficient. My first welder was a lincoln buzz box. It works, but i am learning that stick welding is not necissarily the greates "do it all" process. It puts a lot of heat into the work and can easily blow through small gage material (however, it works very well for building a pistol dueling tree!)
> 
> I am thinking I would like to buy a multi-process machine, because my wife and i just moved and I want to do some DIY furniture builds as i work towards profficient status. I am leaning towards a lincoln powermig 210. This machine seems to be well liked by those that use it. I am aware that most feel that the multi process units dont do anything great, but does them all good enough. But am i overlooking other machines?
> 
> ...


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## ex_isp (Oct 7, 2016)

New to welding, best tip I can provide for technique.  Puddle control.  When you strike an arc, you are melting the base material and applying new metal to it.  Your welding helmet lens needs to be appropriate
for not only your eyes, but for the type of welding you are doing.  You NEED to be able to see the puddle of liquid metal you are creating/depositing.  Too much heat, you will burn a hole in your material.  Not enough
heat, you will experience inadequate penetration for a good bond.  Seeing the puddle is probably the most important part of this picture.  With a good image of the puddle and understanding of what it represents, it will tell
you if your travel speed is right, if the material you are laying down is sufficient, and if you are going to burn a hole rather than fuse pieces together.  Thicker material is easier to learn on as you reduce the chance of burn
through.  But inadequate heat with the thicker materials will result in poor welds just as fast.  Thinner rods take less heat to burn so are better matched to thinner material.  Same applies for Mig.  Thicker rods are for higher heat
settings and laying down more material.  All of this is visible and evident by learning about puddle control.  The puddle being a mix  of the molten rod you are laying down and the melt depth/rate of the material you are welding
together.  I find Mig easier to learn, but stick more versatile for the money.  Example... hardfacing is cheaper to do with fat hardfacing rods.  Thin steel cheaper and easier with Mig.  All depends on what you are wanting to weld.
More detail about your planned application in welding will lend to better, more detailed answers.  

BTW, the Lincoln "buzz box" is likely the worlds most common welder, is known to be a good performer with outstanding reliability.  I have two Migs.  I Miller 180 (220V) and a Century 110A 120V which is what I
use the most.  Used to sell gases and welders but it's been a long time ago.  Don't know what Century is doing today or if they are even still around.

As for Mig specifically, another thing to look for is Tweco Mig guns as standard on your machine.  Some Mig guns are proprietary, but Tweco parts should be available at ANY welding store.  Just my 2 cents.


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## Ironken (Oct 7, 2016)

ex_isp said:


> BTW, the Lincoln "buzz box" is likely the worlds most common welder, is known to be a good performer with outstanding reliability.  I have two Migs.  I Miller 180 (220V) and a Century 110A 120V which is what I
> use the most.  Used to sell gases and welders but it's been a long time ago.  Don't know what Century is doing today or if they are even still around.



I think Lincoln swallowed up Century. I believe Century has become the bottom end of Lincoln's consumer line, available in big box stores.


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## ex_isp (Oct 7, 2016)

I thought I remembered something about a takeover/merger/buyout, but was out of the business before it happened and didn't pay much attention.
Well, Lincoln has traditionally made pretty good equipment (with the exception of a combo machine -- a stick and mig in one -- that I used at the Abana Damascus class I
took in SLC, Ut this last July.  After very short time of use (maybe 2 hrs, light usage), the voltage started wandering all over the place.  Stick and mig both failed so we brought 
in a Miller that ran like a champ.

My old Century mig is now about 30 yrs old and keeps on doing what it's supposed to.  Sounds like I bought it at the right time!


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## TOOLMASTER (Oct 7, 2016)

the lower the duty cycle the higher the beer drinking cycle


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## TOOLMASTER (Oct 7, 2016)

aluminum...if it is shiny, it is melted


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## ex_isp (Oct 7, 2016)

TOOLMASTER said:


> the lower the duty cycle the higher the beer drinking



I like your thinking!    I just have to be careful that I don't run with scissors!  LOL


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## TOOLMASTER (Oct 7, 2016)

I had a lady totally go off because i had a small scissors in my shirt pocket. I was like calm the bleep down lady.


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## JR49 (Oct 7, 2016)

ex_isp said:


> Your welding helmet lens needs to be appropriate
> for not only your eyes, but for the type of welding you are doing


ex_isp, could you please elaborate on this lens choice.  I was told years ago that when people complain they can't see the puddle, so they switch to a lighter lense, that is the wrong approach, because with a lighter lens, your eyes close up more.  If they go to a darker lens, there iris opens larger and they can see the puddle better.  Now I have no idea if this is true, which is why I'm asking you, or anyone with the knowledge to help.  Thanks,  JR49


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## ex_isp (Oct 7, 2016)

Great question JR!  Years ago (when I was a young man), I welded with a #12 gold lens.  Worked great for my eyes inside, outside, stick or mig.  Then 25 years passed with me in the computer industry, not doing any welding.
Eight years ago, was the next time I fired up the mig.  Burnt holes in dang near everything!?!?  Never dawned on me that (even though I have to use glasses to read now) I now need glasses to weld also.  It's fairly closeup work!
Put my reading glasses on inside my welding helmet and could almost see!  Detail was clearer, but it was just too dark.  I took the #12 lens out of one of my helmets and put in a #10 lens.  BINGO!  I can see the puddle now!
Again, it's back to puddle control, though for a new reason.  Hmmm... I can't see as well driving at night anymore either.

Bottom line, there can be many things that affect puddle control... I know how to weld very well.  I just have to be able to SEE the darn thing with my no longer young eyes.

Does this answer your question?  Had I not given so much time off to welding, I likely would have recognized my particular issue sooner, but I had to ponder it for a while just because the last time I'd done any welding, I could see fine.
A few years earlier, maybe just stepping from a #12 to a #11 lens would have solved my issue (not according to my wife - HA), but with a little test here and there, it became obvious that the issue was multi-faceted.


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## brino (Oct 7, 2016)

I just recently upgraded my welding helmet and what a difference!!!!

I started with stick (SMAW) many years ago with a big heavy helmet with a fixed #12 lens.

Shortly after moving to MIG (GMAW) I got an inexpensive(~$100) but very functional auto-darkening helmet off ebay. It can be manual set in the range 9-13. It worked great for everything I needed for many years.

A couple years ago I bought a TIG (GTAW) machine, and quickly learned I'm no good at it. I'd spend more time grinding tungsten than making puddles. I believed it was just a matter of practice, but hadn't found the time to get practice in multiple times a week. Then about a month ago I decided it was a waste to have the machine there unused. I watched some more videos (mostly at: http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/ ) and made an effort to get out to the weld bench and try at least twice a week. Like @ex_isp above, I finally came to the realization that the biggest problem is that I just couldn't see well enough.

So that kicked off the search for a helmet that was better at the low end for small parts and low-current TIG.
I found two reviews here by members @Morgan RedHawk and @CraigB1960 :
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...rtig-255-ext-18-pics.36364/page-2#post-401665
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...rtig-255-ext-18-pics.36364/page-3#post-404075

I called around a bunch of local welding places but found it cheaper online even with shipping:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/262184871516?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

So yep I've got the Lincoln Viking 3350 helmet now too. I've had it just one week exactly today. I can say it has definitely improved my TIG welding!
The biggest reason is the huge shade range: #5 - #13; it's broken into two ranges low (5-8) and high (9-13) with a slide switch, and then fine adjusted with a small dial.

Also,
-in both the "on" and "off" states it is just so clear, with no funny colour changes or "tinges",
-the head band/helmet support is extremely adjustable,
-the "cartridge" is easily removed for cleaning or battery change,
-it came with several extra plastic covers for both sides of the glass

As for what shade to use I'm following the chart(see below) from the manual:
www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im10287.pdf

It wasn't cheap, but it was worth it.
I am looking forward to more practice this weekend, with more arc time than tungsten sharpening time.

-brino

clickable thumbnail:



full image:


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## ex_isp (Oct 7, 2016)

Yeppers!  Gotta be able to see that puddle!  um, not to be confused with poodle!


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## ex_isp (Oct 7, 2016)

And thanks for that helmet review Brino!  Mine is an old 4X5 that while I have lots of lenses for it, I've often lusted after an auto tint.  They were brand new years ago when I thought I wouldn't be doing fabrication any more so they were still expensive, at least, more than I wanted to pay.  I may just have to re-visit the topic and go look at Ebay.


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