# Precision Matthews Quality



## cypressslough

I am in the process of deciding on a new mill and lathe. I really like the features and prices on both the PM45 mill and the PM1236 lathe. I have read the horror stories and praises for PM/QMT. I have also read the same stories for virtually every supplier of Chinese machines. Should I stay away from PM/QMT and go with a different supplier or pull the trigger and order from them?



Brian


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## 7HC

cypressslough said:


> I am in the process of deciding on a new mill and lathe. I really like the features and prices on both the PM45 mill and the PM1236 lathe. I have read the horror stories and praises for PM/QMT. I have also read the same stories for virtually every supplier of Chinese machines. Should I stay away from PM/QMT and go with a different supplier or pull the trigger and order from them?
> 
> 
> 
> Brian



I can't help with any practical advice, but the PM45 and the smaller PM 30, 25, and 20 all seem to offer remarkable value for money, especially when compared to the 'old school' bench top mills with round columns.

You're right about the horror stories though, I've read them about virtually every import machine.  
However, it's been my (albeit limited) experience  with imports, that any deficiencies are usually in fit, finish, and fine tuning, rather than the entire product being a complete POS.

It would be nice to hear from someone who has actually bought one of these.

M


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## cypressslough

Exactly! THat's why I posted. I want to hear from people with PM/QMT experience. Most of the stories I've read are from a couple of years ago. I haven't come across any recent info regarding PM/QMT issues. I did read a post from QMT yesterday stating they had teamed up with Weiss Machinery to supply some of their machines and shipping dates were being met. I am curious which machines are Weiss products.


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## jgedde

I bought my PM45 over a year ago.  It's been OK.  In retrospect, I should have gotten a knee mill.  Tech support from QMT can be a bit hard to get as Matt seems to never be available.  

My only issue with QMT is that my mill was made with 8 TPI leadscrews rather than 10 TPI, which gives me .125 feed per turn on the handles.  Matt said he'd send me the parts to bring it to the 10 TPI QMT states, but I never received them.  He said it might take a while, but over a year is a bit ridiculous.

John


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## brt

cypressslough said:


> I am in the process of deciding on a new mill and lathe. I really like the features and prices on both the PM45 mill and the PM1236 lathe. I have read the horror stories and praises for PM/QMT. I have also read the same stories for virtually every supplier of Chinese machines. Should I stay away from PM/QMT and go with a different supplier or pull the trigger and order from them?
> Brian



I got the PM1236 last year. It's the first lathe that I own, but not the first that I've used (mostly Jets and older European machines years ago). I'm very happy with the machine so far. The ways are very straight and flat. All movement is smooth and tight. There are a couple small nits:

- The gearbox takes a little babying when switching settings, especially the auto-feed gearbox. Once set, it runs smooth as silk.
- The autofeed lever takes a little oomph and wiggle to engage when changing from one side to the other. But going in and out of the feed is smooth and easy.
- The steady-rest really needs bearings, not solid tips

But I've experienced the same and worse with the far more expensive Jet machines at our local makerspace (well, it's really in Philly, but it's the closest one with good machines).

Re: QMT:
1. Matt is VERY knowledgeable about his machines
2. He totally stands behind his product: when the 3-jaw chuck just wouldn't run true, he worked with me on the phone, sometimes late at night, to try a whole bunch of different things. When it became clear that it wasn't going to be right, he sent me a new one, already tested, free of charge and in only a couple of days. That's service!!!
3. QMT is no different from any other supplier of Chinese machinery in that they totally depend on both the supplier and the Customs office in terms of delivery dates. It's exactly the same with Grizz, or anyone else. Basically, whatever they tell you, multiply it by 2 or even 3 and you won't be far off
4. As with all smaller shops, Matt is QMT and QMT is Matt. Both the good and the bad. In particular, Matt doesn't really deal with email when things get busy. If you want something from QMT you HAVE TO CALL MATT. And you have to keep calling until you get him on the phone. Once you do, you get clear, good, timely information, and any issues get resolved quickly and well. Yes, there are other competent folks in the office and in the shop. But they don't always have all the up-to-date info. Once you understand that, dealing with QMT is a pleasure. You can not rush the process. You have to have patience.

Overall: I am happy with the machine, and happy with QMT. I would unreservedly deal with them again. If my Mother-in-law ever decides to get her own lathe, I'll call Matt first.

Re: PM45: I looked at it pretty closely when I was buying my mill. I decided to go with the Industrial Hobbies square-column mill, instead. It's heavier and more rigid, has a huge working cube, and I liked what Tom Spada had to say. Having gone through that experience, I would do it the same way again, and would recommend it to others, with the exact same communications caveat (see #4 above).


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## bvd1940

I have a 1440 I bought from Matt and as far as Chicom quality its a cut above & 2 year guarantee on top of the service & parts makes up for the delay,s on shipping which he is at the Mfg mercy. The equipment is not like OLD US iron BUT its not worn out or buggerd up.:nono:
I will buy from him again )


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## cypressslough

Thanks guys. I have considered the Grizzly 4003G and an IH mill but kinda liked the idea of getting both at one place. I still haven't made up my mind on which route I wanna go. I'm pretty sure I would have zero regrets either way I go.


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## tkollen

I am in the market for a milling machine and I have narrowed down to a choice between a Rong Fu RF-45, Precision Matthews PM45 and Industrial Hobbies 45 machine. I am impressed with the IH machine for its  better specs, wider table etc. I have now e-mailed IH and left phone messages with them for 2 weeks now but no response whatsoever as of yet. 

I wouldn't buy machinery from a company that can't respond to customers, provide after sales service, spare parts etc. I have therefore started to lean towards the RF45 or the PM45.

Does anyone know if this company ( Industrial Hobbies) is still in business? Does anyone have an opinion of how RF45 and PM45 machine compares to the IH and also any preference between RF45 and PM45?

Tom


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## Ray C

A few years ago, I was looking at these same machine.  I didn't go with IH because it seemed they were having troubles with their business.  -Not saying anything bad about their product but, was concerned about the viability of the business.  Also, they make their own forgings etc and I figured replacement parts might be more difficult to get.

Rong Fu...  Well, you can only buy them from various wholesalers -and who knows what kind of support you'll get there.

Matt at PM is difficult to get a hold of for general chit-chat but, Nicole will tell you when he's in the office and if you call then, you will get a hold of him.  Anyhow, I've got a PM 45 and like it a lot.  I do plan to put additional oilers on the ways and that's my only nit about the machine.  I'm also converting it to 3 phase -and I wouldn't invest in a machine that wasn't worth it...


Ray


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## tkollen

Now even Industrial Hobbies website seems to have been taken down!!


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## jumps4

grizzly has a new zx45 type out
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Mill-Drill-with-Stand-and-Power-Feed/G0755
it has some nice features and price
steve


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## Ray C

Now that looks pretty darn nice!  Basically, a PM45 with power Z.




jumps4 said:


> grizzly has a new zx45 type out
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Mill-Drill-with-Stand-and-Power-Feed/G0755
> it has some nice features and price
> steve


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## jumps4

Ray C said:


> Now that looks pretty darn nice!  Basically, a PM45 with power Z.


 that also has power feed on the x axis and stand included for $2345 including shipping thats a deal
I love my wholesale tools zx45
steve


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## GaryK

The PM-45 that Matt will be getting has a DRO for the quill included. Here's a picture.






The PM has the coolant system which the grizzly says is Coolant ready.

That Grizzly one does look nice. I wonder why it has a power Z and a Z handle?


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## OakRidgeGuy

When I am able to get around to getting a full size lathe, this is the one that I want. 

http://machinetoolonline.com/PM1340T.html

Quality should be a touch above the others that Matt sells. Not saying that there are not any good machines that are smaller, that Matt sells. But this one is a Taiwan made machine and if you have read the many comparisons between Chinese and Taiwan made machines, the later beats em in quality.


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## Ray C

That particular machine is very high-end in it's class.  Matt and I have discussed that machine a good bit and he keeps enticing me with it -kind of an ongoing joke...  In this day and age, it's about as close to a real toolroom lathe as you're going to get -unless of course, you jump several-fold in cash output.  I came darn close to buying that lathe myself but felt my needs were more than adequately served by the 1236.  -And they are!  I have no significant nits about the 1236 and suspect the victor and beileigh versions are no different (other than higher price).

The bases that come with these machines are decent but one day, I'd like to make something out of 1/2" angle iron and concrete pedestals.  I have no problems with performance due to the bench but you do have to watch more for chuck balance and workpieces that throw the balance.  If you've ever worked on a SOLID machine, this is less of a concern and... well, it just feels better for some reason...  The lathe I learned on was a 16x54 LeBlond with integral pedestal and I'm guessing it was in the 1 ton range.  -Sweet!





OakRidgeGuy said:


> When I am able to get around to getting a full size lathe, this is the one that I want.
> 
> http://machinetoolonline.com/PM1340T.html
> 
> Quality should be a touch above the others that Matt sells. Not saying that there are not any good machines that are smaller, that Matt sells. But this one is a Taiwan made machine and if you have read the many comparisons between Chinese and Taiwan made machines, the later beats em in quality.


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## 7HC

jumps4 said:


> that also has power feed on the x axis and stand included for $2345 including shipping thats a deal
> I love my wholesale tools zx45
> steve



Very nice machine for someone who wants to work manually with power feeds.
However, for a CNC conversion the WT ZX45 makes more sense.


M


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## KenS

jumps4 said:


> grizzly has a new zx45 type out
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Mill-Drill-with-Stand-and-Power-Feed/G0755
> it has some nice features and price



Looks interesting. I wonder how hard it is to tram after you nod the head.


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## 7HC

KenS said:


> Looks interesting. I wonder how hard it is to tram after you nod the head.



Probably no harder than any other dovetail column mill.


M


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## darkzero

Ray C said:


> Now that looks pretty darn nice! Basically, a PM45 with power Z.



Agreed. Judging by the picture posted above of the new PM45s, based on that control panel it looks like it may have power Z as well, unless that's a sneak peek of the CNC version.


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## GaryK

darkzero said:


> Agreed. Judging by the picture posted above of the new PM45s, based on that control panel it looks like it may have power Z as well, unless that's a sneak peek of the CNC version.



That picture was just to show the DRO for the spindle. No power Z.

And no that's not the CNC version. This is:


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## darkzero

GaryK said:


> That picture was just to show the DRO for the spindle. No power Z.



So what are the Up & Down buttons for?


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## GaryK

darkzero said:


> So what are the Up & Down buttons for?



I imagine for moving the head up and down, but like I said this picture was just to show the DRO feature and how it will look on the new
PM-45M's. It's not an actual picture of the PM mill since he hasn't even received them yet.


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