# Atlas Lathe Milling Attachment Vs. Mini Mill



## cdhknives (Feb 5, 2016)

Any of y'all use both?  I have the Atlas milling attachment and find it difficult to use, hard enough that I was looking into a mini mill.  No, I don't have room (or budget, or need realistically) for a full size mill, benchtop machines only in my shop.

Anyway, how much improvement in rigidity, squareness, and capacity should I realistically expect with a mini mill over the Atlas lathe milling attachment?  Looking at these in particular:

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=1387807683


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## ch2co (Feb 5, 2016)

Although I don't have an Atlas, my little G0602 which I got used, had a Palmgren milling attachment with it.  I tried to use it but found it extremely limited for even small work.
I also have a G8689 mini mill that I got thrown in with the lathe (and tons of other stuff) I really didn't think at the time that I would even set the mini mill up, but after sitting on
a back table in my little home shop, I finally decided to try the little feller out. It's no Bridgeport (actually far from it), but I've found it to be a very useful tool that I often use it more
than my lathe.  If I had my 'drothers I would like a bigger table with more travel, but the mini lathe is far and above the little milling device that came with the lathe. This isn't like a
lathe/mill that actually has a mini mill built on top of the lathe the Palmgren is basically a vise that can be moved vertically and when mounted on the cross slide of the lathe can be moved 
from front to back and from right to left.  x,y,z.  

CHuck the grumpy old guy


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## Mondo (Feb 5, 2016)

A few added accessories and you can do a lot with your Atlas lathe.  It depends on what you need to get done.
I used the Atlas milling attachment to cut a Woodruff slot on a 3/4" shaft, very successfully.  I have also cut V-grooves in small brass and aluminum vise jaws with excellent results.  Another project was indexing mounting holes in a round flange.   Gearcutting is another possibi8lity but I have not attempted that yet.

Some other tasks required more elaborate attachments.  The MLA A-11 is one.  But that is available only as a raw iron casting and requires full machining.  I did that with assistance from a friend who has a Bridgeport.

As I get more projects that require more milling than lathe work I find myself wanting a mill.  Hence my recent acquisition of a grubby old Atlas MFC mill.  This will be my spring-time resurrection project.  So if you are challenged to use the Atlas Milling Attachment that stands tall on the compound then perhaps you will be looking for a small table-top mill.

Spiral_Chips


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## wa5cab (Feb 5, 2016)

The main disadvantages of the milling attachment over a small mill are work holding (especially on large parts) and the fact that ever time that you remove the compound and mount the milling attachment you have to spend 20 minutes tramming it in in two dimensions (getting the throat of the vise perpendicular to the spindle axis and the holding end of the vise parallel to the ways).  You can improve the work holding capability by acquiring one of the moderately scarce tables off of the Universal Compound Vise, and/or acquiring one of the rare work holding attachments with the T-slot.

On the other hand, the lathe with milling attachment has essentially unlimited headspace.  If you had a 36" long bar that for some reason you needed to cut a slot across the end of, or drill off-center holes in, you would need to remove the tailstock but otherwise you could do it if you had to.  You could also do it on a horizontal mill.  But not on most vertical mills without a right-angle attachment.

Most home shop milling applications will be more conveniently done on a mill.  So if you can afford and have the space for both, you are better off with both.  But if you can only have one or the other, a lathe with milling attachment will do more than just a mill.


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## cdhknives (Feb 7, 2016)

I have used my Atlas milling attachment to make a t-nut for my QCTP, and tried to use it for one other small project.  I found it extremely frustrating to use, to get squared, and to keep from vibrating the shop apart when cutting.  Granted I was using 2 flute mills, but the very light cuts I had to take probably exaggerated the chatter issue.  I also had to plunge a carbide ball endmill through a hardened steel knife handle to enlarge a hole and chatter was so bad the mill edge chipped out repeatedly, all but destroying the endmill after that one use.

For general hobby use, like making folding knives and pistol gunsmithing, I just can't see the lathe attachment getting it done...but will a mini mill cover these tasks adequately?  OR, do I need to wait and save up for a $1500+ benchtop mill.  A full sized mill just isn't going to fit in my shop, so even used equipment is out of the question there.


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## fgduncan (Mar 28, 2016)

Since I have both the milling attachment for my TH42 and a bench mill, I'd like to throw in my $0.02.  The milling attachment is far better than nothing. You have to realize its limitations as to size and stiffness, but within those, it can be used for small work. I never had any trouble tramming mine, though. I just ran it into the chuck and tightened the locking screw and I had it perfectly square to the headstock. Then I placed a piece of flat stock on the bed and lowered the vice down with a small piece of flat stock in the jaws and that gave me perfect level with the bed. I actually found that it could make a smoother cut than my bench mill, but with all of the limitations of size. Once I got my bench mill set up, I've never used the lathe mill again. So, it is better than nothing, by far.


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## wa5cab (Mar 28, 2016)

That's a couple of good ideas for tramming the milling attachment.


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## schor (Mar 28, 2016)

I've used a milling attachment on my atlas a few times before I got my benchtop mill. It was ok for smallish things and you had to really take your time, too much flexing. On my small (not mini) benchtop mill I can easily hold things much bigger than I would on the lathe and I could cut much faster. It's much simpler to do repeatable setups, angle setups, all sorts of things.


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## Ancora (Apr 13, 2016)

I am currently using my 6" Atlas milling attachment to make a new compound rest tool post slide (the cast iron one broke.) Trying to mill 1118 steel is a chore due to the lack of rigidity.  I would much prefer to have a mini-mill.


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## Charles Spencer (Apr 13, 2016)

I had a South Bend 9C that I used a Palmgren milling attachment on.  I bought a spare cross slide on ebay and drilled and tapped holes in it to mount the milling attachment directly to it.  I also mounted a large counter weight to the back of the attachment for added stability.  I had to use shims to get the work parallel.  It worked well enough that I could take cuts up to about 0.005".







It worked well enough when I had no mill. But it was slow going.  My space is also quite limited and I despaired of finding an old benchtop mill so I bought the Harbor Freight mill/drill #44991 and added the pulley drive from LMS.  It's much easier to use and has greater tool capacity.

Then I lucked out and found an old Garvin horizontal mill.  I still have the HF mill up and running as it takes up very little space.


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## cdhknives (Apr 18, 2016)

I appreciate all the replies.  After fighting with my milling attachment for the last couple of weeks I am more determined than ever to get a benchtop mill, but probably something beefier than the little 200 lb mini-mills.  Time to save some $$$!

I will say that getting a 6 flute high $$$ Niagara endmill did wonders for my Atlas' milling performance.


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## 56type (Aug 6, 2020)

I'm currently using the milling attachment to make the T-nut for the QCTP mount. As has been said it lacks rigidity and vibrates profusely, additionally several times the endmill has knocked the milling attachment off axis whether due to the vibration loosening the set screws enough to allow the endmill to move the assembly when the cutter comes into contact with the work at the beginning of a cut, or some other factor I'm not sure. I'm taking cuts of 0.005 at 430 RPM according the the manual for my Atlas 10100 Mk.2 using the endmill holder that's for the milling attachment. I've had to reset the work several times due to the cutter knocking the setup out of alignment. Using a Hertel 4 -flute  1/2 in. endmill since I haven't made any of the adapter sleeves for the endmill holder yet.


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## wa5cab (Aug 7, 2020)

First, confirm that you are NOT doing Climb Milling.  The spindle should be rotating CCW as seen from the tailstock.  If the end mill is above the T-nut, before starting a cutting pass, the Milling Attachment and T-Nut should be behind the spindle (on the far side from the operator) and thus have to move toward the operator in order to cut.


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## 56type (Aug 7, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> First, confirm that you are NOT doing Climb Milling.  The spindle should be rotating CCW as seen from the tailstock.  If the end mill is above the T-nut, before starting a cutting pass, the Milling Attachment and T-Nut should be behind the spindle (on the far side from the operator) and thus have to move toward the operator in order to cut.



That's how i have been running it... T-nut behind and below the the end mill feeding toward the operator (counter clockwise rotation of the cross feed handle). Tightened up the gibs on the cross feed base that the milling attachment mounts to. Dial in 0.005 depth of cut (counter clockwise rotation of milling attachment handle) and feed work into cutter slowly. I was specifically warned AGAINST climb milling when I first asked about the milling attachment and followed those instructions to the letter to make sure I didn't damage anything when setting up to use the milling attachment. 

 For some reason I have yet to pin down to a definite cause, the end mill will bite into the work hard enough to knock the entire setup off axis. This only occurs at the beginning of a cut and after several cuts have already been made. Which is why I'm thinking perhaps the vibration is causing the set screws in the milling attachment base to loosen over successive cuts despite being tightened to the point of actually flexing the hex key wrench. Going forward I'll be checking the tightness of the set screws after a few cuts to make sure everything stays locked in place.

I have another 0.041 in. to remove to reach the target dimension of 0.216 on this side. I'll then need to cut another 0.207 off per side to reach the 1.163 in. dimension to fit the T-slot on my compound. The measurement on the stock supplied with the QCTP to make the T-nut were 1.750 in. length X 1.578 in. width X 0.356 in. thickness.


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## chippermat (Aug 7, 2020)

Can you post a picture of your setup? ETA how is the work mounted in the vise?


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## wa5cab (Aug 7, 2020)

One other thing to check, although I don't claim this is the only culprit, is the gib material.  Beginning around 1973, Clausing began changing all of the gibs in the 6", 10" and both 12" except for the Carriage Gibs from steel to plastic.  This includes the cross slide gib (which is also used as the vertical slide on the milling attachment) and the compound slide gib (which isn't used when you are using the milling attachment).  I am pretty sure that all 10100's have plastic gibs.  Your milling attachment, if originally painted gray, may still have a steel gib.  If painted blue, it probably has the plastic one.  In any case, it is worth checking.  The plastic gibs are white or off-white.


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## 56type (Aug 7, 2020)

chippermat said:


> Can you post a picture of your setup? ETA how is the work mounted in the vise?



Sure...the first pic is of the overall setup AFTER a cut has been made to better show the work in the vise, all cuts are made by pulling the work under the cutter to avoid climb milling. The second pic is a close up of the work and at the front edge of the cut if you look closely you can see where the cutter knocked the setup out of alignment and bit into the corner of the work at the front vertical edge of the "T".


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## 56type (Aug 7, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> One other thing to check, although I don't claim this is the only culprit, is the gib material.  Beginning around 1973, Clausing began changing all of the gibs in the 6", 10" and both 12" except for the Carriage Gibs from steel to plastic.  This includes the cross slide gib (which is also used as the vertical slide on the milling attachment) and the compound slide gib (which isn't used when you are using the milling attachment).  I am pretty sure that all 10100's have plastic gibs.  Your milling attachment, if originally painted gray, may still have a steel gib.  If painted blue, it probably has the plastic one.  In any case, it is worth checking.  The plastic gibs are white or off-white.



THANKS !! I had bought some of the steel gibs for the cross slide and compound back when those were offered for sale here & installed them on the lathe as soon as they arrived. It never occurred to me to check the gib of the milling attachment itself. That may well be a contributing factor. I did cranks down some more on the cross slide gib to improve rigidity as much as possible to the point where there is significant drag on the cross feed handle when feeding the work into the cutter, which seemed to help some with the vibration. I reached the target dimension for depth of the "T" this morning after several cuts, though I still need to cut the edges of each side back by 0. 208 in. to get the fit of the slot in the compound correct.


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## ShagDog (Aug 7, 2020)

This thread has been resurrected in a timely manner for me. I got one of the Atlas lathe milling attachments (could be a Model 500A) with my used lathe, and I have no intention of using it. In fact, I currently have it for sale. However, this thread possibly has me re-thinking selling it. I do have a Taig mill that works pretty nicely for my purposes; that is why I decided to sell the attachment.


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## wa5cab (Aug 8, 2020)

@56type,

OK.  Although there might be other reasons to avoid doing it (lack of visibility being one), if with everything positioned as shown in your most recent pair of photos taken after completion of a pass, you were to raise the vertical slide on the milling attachment by the thickness of the wing on the T-nut plus the diameter of the cutter minus the DOC (Depth Of Cut), that would not be a case of climb milling, either.  But it would be harder to see what you were doing and it would be trying to lift the milling attachment and cross slide.  Both of which are not desirable if you don't have to do it that way.


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