# Soldering ststion selection.



## Rbeckett (Jul 2, 2012)

Well I think I am about ready to pull the trigger on a new soldering Iron.  I have filed the tip slap off of my 6.00 Radio Shack super dooper el-cheapo iron finally,  Anybody got any suggestion that might be better than an Aoyue 936d or 937+, or an Atten 936D.  Model numbering systems do seem to overlap but they remain seperate and distinct from similarly numbered units from other vendors.  I have been looking for a couple of weeks at a new iron and these three seem to offer the most features like digital temp and spare goodies like tips, heaters and spare handpieces.  I set an abritrary limit of 60 dollars and free or very cheap freight.  I'm kind of leaning toward the 937+ because even though it is the most expensive of the three it has a solder roll holder with tip wrench for hot tip changes, two complete iron handpieces, 5 extra tips, a spare heater, and free shipping.  Any one else had to replace one recently, and possibly have a unit in mind that I may have overlooked.  I looked at Atten, Weller, Aoyue, SRD, BGA and many others including house brands from name brand vendors,  I narrowed it to these three and an X-Tronic 4010 with magnifying  light and tweezers too.  It is the most expensive at a budget busting 70 bucks plus shipping, but it includes a gooseneck 5X  5 1/2 inch magnifyer with 90 LED lights.  Comments, suggestions, horror stories or vendors to avoid?  Any info would be great.

Wheelchair Bob


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## xalky (Jul 2, 2012)

I never put that much thought into my soldering irons. I found a couple of old Wellers 300watts at a yard sale 20 yrs ago and they're still going strong. I pull the trigger and they get hot fast...what more can you ask for.


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## roygpa (Jul 2, 2012)

I bought a Auyoe 936 off Ebay and I like it. I gave my "Radio Shack stiff cord made it difficult to use" version to a friend. 
The cord on the Auyoe is flexible and does not interfere while soldering. The iron heats up fast. I am not an expert on soldering but I do like this iron. I paid 39 bucks and shipping was free.

I already had the magnifier as I notice my eyesight going bad a couple years prior when I was trying to tie flies for fly fishing.)

Roy


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## Rbeckett (Jul 2, 2012)

Thanks Roy.   I started noticing that my arms are getting too short again too, so I was looking at the goos neck and cantalever magnifying lights too.  Found a ton of the cheap flimsy ones that break at the clamp all the time, but no real bargains on a better quality unit.  Bout the best I could end up was 39 bucks for the 936, 22 for tips and 20 for a lamp or 69.80 for all of it in a combo kit.  I really didnt like the plastic Iron holder with that piece though.  Thanks for the input and info.  The 936' and 937+'s have the best reviews and I really like the sidewinder solder spool right in the steel Iron rest too.  But the freight is sort of a deal killer on that one.  Still struggling....

Bob


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## Tony Wells (Jul 2, 2012)

Bob,
 you have anything against Ungar? In particular model 9000? No magnifier or solder reel, but for the price.......


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## Chucketn (Jul 2, 2012)

I taught the USAF High Reliability Soldering Course in a Field Training Detachment for about 10 years. Mind you, it was over 25 years ago. The best equipment we had for standing up to constant use by folks that had never soldered before, was Weller temp controlled stations. Second best were Ungar. Wish I had one now. Don't know what they're like today.

Chuck


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## Rbeckett (Jul 2, 2012)

Tony Wells said:


> Bob,
> you have anything against Ungar? In particular model 9000? No magnifier or solder reel, but for the price.......




Nope, never even heard of them before this post.  Looked at several on a site that sells Ungar.  Pricey lil rascals aren't they.  The 9000 is pretty close to the budget guidelines at 65 bucks, plus freight.  Waiting on a freight quote from the vendor now.  Thanks for the new option Tony!!
Bob


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## Tony Wells (Jul 2, 2012)

Well, the real option is that I seem to have a surplus of them. I primarily use Weller on the bench, but keep an Ungar on standby. Would you be interested in a gift of one of these Ungar units? They're not new, by any means, but everyone I have tried seemed to work well. I have a few new tips also for them. Maybe a heater or two as well. I understand the attraction of new toys, but sometimes a well proven, broken(not broken down) toy is just what the doctor ordered.


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## jgedde (Jul 2, 2012)

As a NASA 8739 and MIL (J-STD) certified solderer, I can't say enough about Hakko soldering stations - and I've tried 'em all.  They are, BY FAR, the best.  I use the FX-951.

 Ready to go from full cold in 30 seconds, heat control bar none, and power when you need it.  They has a two for one deal a while back and we stocked up.

http://www.hakkousa.com/products.asp?CID=49

John


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## churchjw (Jul 2, 2012)

I have a Hakko Soldering Station, FX-888  $84.88 from amazon.  I went to it when I starts doing surface mount chips. Has great temperature control and holds the temperature great.  The tips are not cheap but hold up well and they have a good selection. 

Jeff


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## Tony Wells (Jul 2, 2012)

Hands down, Hakko is great stuff. I don't know anyone who has a bad word about them.


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## swatson144 (Jul 2, 2012)

I've used weller since '75 and been happy with tip availability and life. A few years ago I needed another station and bought another weller. Non digital but with the KNOB. I really don't care what the temp is but I like to set it to 50% for my normal work and hotter or colder on other jobs. There is a magnet pen thing to adjust the KNOB 

Steve


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## DMS (Jul 2, 2012)

I have a Hako 936. Works great. Price was around $100 IIRC. If you are shooting for the lower end, you may try to locate a used Weller. Parts are still available, so you can repair as need, and they tend to be pretty common. I don't recommend the low-end red Weller rig. It uses an open loop temperature control, not great if you want any sort of real temp control. My roommate in college had one. If you plan to solder more than once a year, I would go for something with a little better control.


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## Tony Wells (Jul 2, 2012)

You planning on SMD work, or where anti-stat is a concern?


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## Hawkeye (Jul 3, 2012)

I've had a Hakko 936 for about 16 years. It's done everything in electronics that I've needed. I haven't done any SMD with it, but I would prefer a 30 to 100x microscope for that kind of work.


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## DMS (Jul 3, 2012)

I have done smt work with the 936, but it is painfully slow to do by hand. A much faster way is some solder paste, and a cheap electric skillet. Dab paste on your pads, and place your parts. place board in skillet. Heat till solder turns "dull" hold for a full seconds, the heat till it all goes shiny. Remove the board as quickly as possible without jostling the parts. It works great, and you don't have to worry about placement of parts too much because the solder mask and the surface tension of the molten solder help to center the parts on their pads. 

Of course, it only works for one side of a board.


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## Rbeckett (Jul 3, 2012)

Has any one used the SMT tweezers, if doing that type of work?  I see the tweezer assembly is available seperately and uses the same 5 pin connector.  Could become a station upgrade if it has any value beyong it's neat factor.  It would be possible to switch back and forth between SMT and conventional through hole.  They could  even be hybridized onto the same board if neccessary.  Can that be done?
Bob


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## Rbeckett (Jul 3, 2012)

Tony Wells said:


> Well, the real option is that I seem to have a surplus of them. I primarily use Weller on the bench, but keep an Ungar on standby. Would you be interested in a gift of one of these Ungar units? They're not new, by any means, but everyone I have tried seemed to work well. I have a few new tips also for them. Maybe a heater or two as well. I understand the attraction of new toys, but sometimes a well proven, broken(not broken down) toy is just what the doctor ordered.



Yup a good high quality well used tool is the best in my opinion too.  I'm a funny bird about tools,  I am one of those that tends to spend a tad more to get the tool I want over one that will just do.  Too many times down the marginal tool blues road for me.  If you would like to send one of your units I would love to have it. LMK what the freight is and I can transfer it back to yoou in paypal  or a check too.   Also if you will let me know the tip style or sizes I will order up a bunch of different tips to find my comfort level with that part of the equation too.  My bench stock continues to grow, slowly but surely.  I have been concentrating on connectors, cables and various fittings and hardware type of components this month.  Next month I want to really start accumulating CMOS, JFET and varios power and switching components.  Believe it or not there is a method to the madness of trying to accumulate this virtual unlimited bench stock.  I am at my most creative when I am fumbling.  I tend to get myself into a corner and have to figure out a way to get myself out and back on track.  The next month I want to explore Op-Amps and inverting/non inverting devices and properly amplifyng the signal to a usable and meaning full level.  I was explaining to a member on the brew site, that because of my health issues I will probably choose to not drink much if any of the brew and probably end up giving most of it away.  Some of them think I am a nut, but the stuff I am currently doing is way way more interesting than boiling and fermenting a bunch of sugar water.  Plus it is helping keep me engaged and exercising my head with something that builds knowledge and makes me problem solve and think in a linear fashion.  LMK what you need and I will get all the info for shipping and stuff to ya.  Thanks a ton Tony, I kind of figured you got what I was up to from the beginning.  It's just continuing to grow and blossom a little quicker than I had originally anticipated.
Bobber


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## Rbeckett (Jul 3, 2012)

DMS said:


> I have done smt work with the 936, but it is painfully slow to do by hand. A much faster way is some solder paste, and a cheap electric skillet. Dab paste on your pads, and place your parts. place board in skillet. Heat till solder turns "dull" hold for a full seconds, the heat till it all goes shiny. Remove the board as quickly as possible without jostling the parts. It works great, and you don't have to worry about placement of parts too much because the solder mask and the surface tension of the molten solder help to center the parts on their pads.
> 
> Of course, it only works for one side of a board.



Thats a pretty neat approach to doing boards and soldering in the components.  I have been studying Prof Axelsons text on creating boards and all of the different ways of doing that.   I got that book about a year ago and it it kind of got moved to the side till I started looking into doing this project.  I was trying to do as much old school through hole as I could to enhance my understanding and to cement the info into a usable form in my punkin head. Plus I dont see as well as a young man anymore so THC (through hole components) makes it a bit easier to see the component markings for me and my poor eyesight  But the skillet method appears to be a neat little trick fer sure.  Thanks!!!!
Bob


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## Tony Wells (Jul 3, 2012)

Bob, I'll go into the warehouse and see what I can find for you. I know I'll never use all of them.


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## jgedde (Jul 3, 2012)

Here's a board I designed and laid out a year or two ago.  It's a two axis brushless servo motor controller used for a missile countermeasure system.  It employs rigid-flex technology and PWM based motor drive.  The boards wrap around the countermeasure head.  The two quad flatpack IC's on the right side are TI DSP ICs.  The aluminum bracket is a thermal path to the chassis and the perforated area on the right segment is a thermal via array to conduct heat away from a DC/DC converter located on the back side to a sil pad boss on the outer chassis.  Resolvers are used for position feedback.  It is able to slew a 9 lb inertia 180 degrees in 150 milliseconds with no overshoot.  It can deliver up to 1.2 kW operating on 28 VDC/70 VDC supplies.   Most discrete SMT components are 0603.  The big toriods are part of the output EMI filter.  Two of four on each axis have a small secondary winding used to generate a floating MOSFET gate supply for the high side MOSFETs.

I always like to assemble the first circuit card of a new design since I can test it in stages, and also learn where there are potential assembly issues.

The point?  This one was hand soldered (no paste) using 0.016 and 0.032 dia 63/37 solder, liquid rosin flux, and a Hakko FX-951.

John


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## Tony Wells (Jul 3, 2012)

Nice work, John. I always respect people who can work down to those levels of assembly. A few years ago, my younger brother had the steady hand and good eye to do work at that scale. His profession at the time was camcorder repair, which I'm sure you know is about as compact as it gets. He has since gotten away from the consumer side of things altogether, except for family and close friends. He can't see well enough without cheaters, and really hasn't the patience for it, when he has other work that pays better and is less demanding. He still does commercial video camera work, and people ship from all over to get their cameras repaired....TV stations and the like. He does design and construction of his own products, but tends to avoid micro circuitry when possible.


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## jgedde (Jul 3, 2012)

Tony Wells said:


> Nice work, John. I always respect people who can work down to those levels of assembly. A few years ago, my younger brother had the steady hand and good eye to do work at that scale. His profession at the time was camcorder repair, which I'm sure you know is about as compact as it gets. He has since gotten away from the consumer side of things altogether, except for family and close friends. He can't see well enough without cheaters, and really hasn't the patience for it, when he has other work that pays better and is less demanding. He still does commercial video camera work, and people ship from all over to get their cameras repaired....TV stations and the like. He does design and construction of his own products, but tends to avoid micro circuitry when possible.




I hear where you're coming from.  6 or seven years ago, I could solder 0805's and SOICs with my naked eye - not to MIL or NASA spec mind you, but decent commercial (IPC).  Now for those, on a good day, I need reading glasses, or better yet a magnifier.  T

hat board was assembled under a 25X binocular microscope and was MIL spec.  

Nowadays I rely more and more on our assemblers and technicians to build up prototypes.  I highlight the parts of the schematic I need built first, the tech highlights the BOM accordingly, and the assembler goes to town.  I do still like to assemble my own first article designs when time permits though.

I swear, my eyes got way worse in a very short amount of time after I started wearing reading glasses.

John


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## rickard (Jul 3, 2012)

Dude this is what you got to have 

[video]http://revision3.com/tbhs/solderover[/video]


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## DMS (Jul 4, 2012)

Rbeckett said:


> Thats a pretty neat approach to doing boards and soldering in the components.  I have been studying Prof Axelsons text on creating boards and all of the different ways of doing that.   I got that book about a year ago and it it kind of got moved to the side till I started looking into doing this project.  I was trying to do as much old school through hole as I could to enhance my understanding and to cement the info into a usable form in my punkin head. Plus I dont see as well as a young man anymore so THC (through hole components) makes it a bit easier to see the component markings for me and my poor eyesight  But the skillet method appears to be a neat little trick fer sure.  Thanks!!!!
> Bob



Those head mounted magnifiers and a good pair of tweezers are your best friend on small parts. Lots of people use toaster ovens for SMT soldering as well, but I picked up this little electric skillet for about $10


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## Rbeckett (Jul 4, 2012)

I saw a really nice Hakko set of soldering tweezers that are backwards compatible with the power supplies too.  Definately gonna need a good, high quality magnifyer.  I started to learn electronics because I wanted to build a Torch Height Controller for my plasma table.  What a mess this has become!!!!  I have managed to expand a simple design and added a ton of parts selections to support a new goal of "build without waits", let your mind lead the way engineering.  Plus I am a card carryin lifetime member of the toolaholic afliction with the addiction bad enough for two normal people too.  Since I got older and my kids are grown and gone I have time and more importantly the money to tinker with just about anything that interests me now.  I started a three tier brew stand build that I quickly monsterized and kept adding stuff to because I thought it would be a good idea.  Funny thing is, I have no kidneys so I cannot partake of the end result.  Talk about the great neighbor I have become.  I go on these binges and momma just smiles knowingly and pats me on the back.  The way I figure it I am still engaged to the rest of the world and possibly helping myself and others with my "investigations".  Looks like a found a winner in electronics and machining, w'ell just have to see how it plays out in a year or ten or so.  Thanks for the ideas guys, I am still niave so I'm still like a kid in a candy factory about parts and neat tools.
Bob


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## Tony Wells (Jul 4, 2012)

Hey Bob,
 do you have anything for the heavier work, like a Weller 550 or similar?

PM me your shipping info, please.


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## Rbeckett (Jul 5, 2012)

Done!!!  Thans to Tony Wells for his support of this site and the member on it.  Tony is just that kind of stand up guy.  He has far and away exceeded the definition of Forum Supporter in many many ways on a daily basis.  Lets all get behind him and support his quest to make this site the premier freindliest and most peacefull place to be.  I have never been to another site where a member just hooks another member up out of the goodness in his heart.  It retores my faith in the general population when things like this happen.  They usually happen to other folks, but it is even better when it is your turn.  Thanks Tony, youre the man!!!!
Wheelchair Bob


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## Rbeckett (Jul 8, 2012)

Since Tony has taken care of me so well with mentorship and some equipment I have been able to order at least one bin box storage unit for my parts stock.  Should be here pretty quick since it's coming from the lower mid west instead of across the pond on the proverbial slow boat from china.  Hope to see some improvement in parts storage and project quality soon.  Thanks Tony!!!
Bob


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