# Tangential tool holder



## Mark_f

Tangential tool holder

Man..... I hope I spelled that right. I seen and read a lot of opinions and information about how great these tool holders are, so I thought I would make one. I stole ....err....uhm....borrowed this idea from a picture I saw on the web when I Googled "tangential tool holder images". I found a 5" long by 1" square piece of steel in my scrap box ...I mean inventory department that looked like it would suffice. 



	

		
			
		

		
	
 This is where all those saw upgrades pay off. I had to get creative to saw away the excess part of the block.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 I set the piece in my tilting mill vise and milled a 5/16" slot on a 12 degree angle back and a 12 degree angle to the right. This should set the tool bit at the proper angles.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 This view shows the tool bit setting in place and the angle.


	

		
			
		

		
	
 I sharpened the tool bit to the recommended 30 degree angle. I will make a sharpening jig also.


	

		
			
		

		
	
 All that is left to do is make the clamp to hold the tool. I will do that tomorrow. It only took about an hour and a half to get this far, so it is an easy project.


Mark Frazier


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## mattthemuppet2

Looks good Mark and very quick work! Makes sense to cut off any excess with the saw, saves time and gives more useful bits of scrap  It'll be interesting to hear what you think once you've had some time using it.


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## Mark_f

mattthemuppet said:


> Looks good Mark and very quick work! Makes sense to cut off any excess with the saw, saves time and gives more useful bits of scrap  It'll be interesting to hear what you think once you've had some time using it.



 If it works as good as everyone says, I'm sure I will like it. The tool is so much easier to grind .... one angle! It seems to make better use of the square lathe bit also.

Mark frazier :rubbinghands:


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## Terrywerm

I've had one of these on my to do list for a while now. Bumping it to the top!


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## caster

I recently built a right left and center Tangential holders.  The center was made with a round toolbit and no side tilt.  I find the round bit gives the best finish, the square bits are good, bigger cuts and a nice finish but you have to round the tip or it will leave marks.  The biggest difference is  in the chips, it creates long continuous strands.  Its nice to turn and face with the same tool, but that is not unique to Tangential tools.

Caster


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## thomas s

Nice work Mark.Please post when you get the clamp done. thomas s


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## Mark_f

caster said:


> I recently built a right left and center Tangential holders.  The center was made with a round toolbit and no side tilt.  I find the round bit gives the best finish, the square bits are good, bigger cuts and a nice finish but you have to round the tip or it will leave marks.  The biggest difference is  in the chips, it creates long continuous strands.  Its nice to turn and face with the same tool, but that is not unique to Tangential tools.
> 
> Caster




I like the idea of the center one. If I like this one, I will try a center one.

Mark  Frazier


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## Karl_T

I'm with Wermi, need one too.

I'm thinking build it right into a BXA dovetail tool holder. Is there a need for more than one? right and left hand will do the same work. 

Show us your clamp solution when you get there.


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## Mark_f

OK ... I finished the tangential tool holder. 



	

		
			
		

		
	
 These are the parts , minus the bit and a 1 inch 6-32 SHCS to hold it together.


	

		
			
		

		
	
 This is the completed holder , ready to cut. It works fine but have not done any HEAVY cutting to see where the point is the bit will slip in the holder ( if it even will). I am very satisfied with the outcome of this project. The tool works fine. there is a revision which I may or may not add. If it causes a problem I will do it , but so far it really isn't needed. The revision is a spacer under the clamp outside diameter .070" thick to keep the clamp from "cocking" . When tightened, the clamp cocked slightly, but it seems to be OK.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 This is the print for my holder, if anyone wants to experiment with it. 

This project works and so I will call it complete. I am satisfied with it.

Mark Frazier   :victory:



mark_f said:


> Tangential tool holder
> 
> Man..... I hope I spelled that right. I seen and read a lot of opinions and information about how great these tool holders are, so I thought I would make one. I stole ....err....uhm....borrowed this idea from a picture I saw on the web when I Googled "tangential tool holder images". I found a 5" long by 1" square piece of steel in my scrap box ...I mean inventory department that looked like it would suffice.
> 
> View attachment 91411
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> This is where all those saw upgrades pay off. I had to get creative to saw away the excess part of the block.
> 
> View attachment 91412
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> 
> I set the piece in my tilting mill vise and milled a 5/16" slot on a 12 degree angle back and a 12 degree angle to the right. This should set the tool bit at the proper angles.
> 
> View attachment 91413
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> This view shows the tool bit setting in place and the angle.
> View attachment 91414
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> I sharpened the tool bit to the recommended 30 degree angle. I will make a sharpening jig also.
> View attachment 91415
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> All that is left to do is make the clamp to hold the tool. I will do that tomorrow. It only took about an hour and a half to get this far, so it is an easy project.
> 
> 
> Mark Frazier


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## Micke S

I have one that was with the old lathe. It looks like this.


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## Mark_f

I couldn't leave it alone. This is the revised clamp for this tool holder.



Mark Frazier





mark_f said:


> OK ... I finished the tangential tool holder.
> 
> View attachment 91503
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> 
> These are the parts , minus the bit and a 1 inch 6-32 SHCS to hold it together.
> View attachment 91504
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> This is the completed holder , ready to cut. It works fine but have not done any HEAVY cutting to see where the point is the bit will slip in the holder ( if it even will). I am very satisfied with the outcome of this project. The tool works fine. there is a revision which I may or may not add. If it causes a problem I will do it , but so far it really isn't needed. The revision is a spacer under the clamp outside diameter .070" thick to keep the clamp from "cocking" . When tightened, the clamp cocked slightly, but it seems to be OK.
> 
> View attachment 91505
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> This is the print for my holder, if anyone wants to experiment with it.
> 
> This project works and so I will call it complete. I am satisfied with it.
> 
> Mark Frazier   :victory:


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## MikeWi

caster said:


> The biggest difference is  in the chips, it creates long continuous strands.



That's why I don't use mine so much anymore.  I like the more manageable chips I get with a "conventional" tool bit.


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## Mark_f

MikeWi said:


> That's why I don't use mine so much anymore.  I like the more manageable chips I get with a "conventional" tool bit.



A lot of times I get a long string chip with the conventional tool also. It has a lot to do with feeds and speeds, but mostly the feed rate. 

I made the revised clamp and it is much much better. One note here: I found if I filed a relief in both directions in the corner of the clamp washer, it seats much better. I believe it will take a lot to make the bit slip , if it will at all. I haven't tried an interrupted cut, but this tool seems to handle anything I do. I am really impressed with it. 

Now to make the sharpening jig.

:victory:


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## caster

Here is a picture of the center cutter.  Its a 1/4" round hss ground at 12 deg, presented to the work at 12 deg,  held in place with a set screw from behind.  The finish of this cutter is amazing, don't know if its because its tangential or round.  Either way its a great tool.

Caster


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## Doubleeboy

caster said:


> Here is a picture of the center cutter.  Its a 1/4" round hss ground at 12 deg, presented to the work at 12 deg,  held in place with a set screw from behind.  The finish of this cutter is amazing, don't know if its because its tangential or round.  Either way its a great tool.
> 
> Caster
> 
> View attachment 91532



Caster,   That is a great looking tool.  Any chance you could put up a short clip of it in action?  Do you have to take very light cuts to get the good finish?

Thanks
michael


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## ogberi

mark_f said:


> A lot of times I get a long string chip with the conventional tool also. It has a lot to do with feeds and speeds, but mostly the feed rate.
> 
> I made the revised clamp and it is much much better. One note here: I found if I filed a relief in both directions in the corner of the clamp washer, it seats much better. I believe it will take a lot to make the bit slip , if it will at all. I haven't tried an interrupted cut, but this tool seems to handle anything I do. I am really impressed with it.
> 
> Now to make the sharpening jig.
> 
> :victory:



If the interrupted cut hammers the tool lower, you can always do revision 3 of the clamp, and support the tool on the bottom.  On my Taig, the toolpost sits right on the cross slide, so I had no trouble adding a grub screw to it.  I can adjust tool height, and it doesn't hammer lower.  You can see the grub in the lower left corner of the toolholder.  I cut my toolbit into thirds with a Dremel tool and a fine thin cutoff wheel, then sharpened.  You can get away with a more solid clamp, and simply adjust the QCTP holder.


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## Mark_f

If the interrupted cut is a problem, I have plenty of meat on the holder to install a bottom stop and correct the problem.
I'll find out when I do an interrupted cut.




ogberi said:


> If the interrupted cut hammers the tool lower, you can always do revision 3 of the clamp, and support the tool on the bottom.  On my Taig, the toolpost sits right on the cross slide, so I had no trouble adding a grub screw to it.  I can adjust tool height, and it doesn't hammer lower.  You can see the grub in the lower left corner of the toolholder.  I cut my toolbit into thirds with a Dremel tool and a fine thin cutoff wheel, then sharpened.  You can get away with a more solid clamp, and simply adjust the QCTP holder.
> View attachment 91533


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## caster

Hi Michael,

Used to have an office in Eugene, made it there once a month for several years.  Nice place.

Here is a pic comparing the result of the tangential 30 thou (60 thou off the dia) cut with a similar cut with a carbide insert. You can still see a chip on the tool and some strands in the background.

Caster


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## Doubleeboy

caster said:


> Hi Michael,
> 
> Used to have an office in Eugene, made it there once a month for several years.  Nice place.
> 
> Here is a pic comparing the result of the tangential 30 thou (60 thou off the dia) cut with a similar cut with a carbide insert. You can still see a chip on the tool and some strands in the background.
> 
> Caster
> 
> View attachment 91536



Great photo, does the finish improve if you take a cut of a few thou or does it get worse?

Grew up in NJ, played a lot of hockey at South Mt. Arena, amongst other rinks in the area.  Long , long time ago.
Thanks for the clip
michael


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## Hawkeye

Mark, if you find that your clamp screw sometimes gets in the way when you're working close to the chuck, you can easily modify the clamp with a larger size SHCS threaded into the clamp and coming in from the other side. The one I made for my big lathe is quite similar in design to yours, especially the clamp. IIRC, the shank is around 1" x 3/4".



Here's the cap screw. Notice the sandblasted finish of the toolholder.


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## Mark_f

Hawkeye said:


> Mark, if you find that your clamp screw sometimes gets in the way when you're working close to the chuck, you can easily modify the clamp with a larger size SHCS threaded into the clamp and coming in from the other side. The one I made for my big lathe is quite similar in design to yours, especially the clamp. IIRC, the shank is around 1" x 3/4".
> View attachment 91543
> 
> 
> Here's the cap screw. Notice the sandblasted finish of the toolholder.
> View attachment 91544



Yea, I thought about that. I don't think it will be in the way , but if it is I can drill out to an 8-32 and come from the other side. 8-32 is as big as I can go in this holder. If I like it enough, I am going to make a couple more and I will make a couple changes. This one was kind of by the seat of my pants machining. )


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## caster

Michael,

Yesterday I turned 2 thou and the finish could not be improved on.  It looked as if it was polished with emery and finished with scotch brite. The cut on the picture is smooth to the touch, running a fingernail does not detect a thing but its not as shiny as a shallower cut.

Caster


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## mattthemuppet2

My uncle-in-law gave me a couple of 1/4in bits he ground when he was in the air force and one has a huge nose radius (1/8in wide at least) which gives an amazing finish in most materials with light cuts. Probably something similar going on with the circular bits.


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## bbutcher

Nice job. I made a tangential tool holder a couple of years ago, and have had some issues with the tool slipping under heavy cuts. I am thinking I will make a new holder with a set screw under the bottom end of the bit to prevent this, as well as an adjustment for height as the bit is re-sharpened. 

Bob



mark_f said:


> OK ... I finished the tangential tool holder.
> 
> View attachment 91503
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the parts , minus the bit and a 1 inch 6-32 SHCS to hold it together.
> View attachment 91504
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the completed holder , ready to cut. It works fine but have not done any HEAVY cutting to see where the point is the bit will slip in the holder ( if it even will). I am very satisfied with the outcome of this project. The tool works fine. there is a revision which I may or may not add. If it causes a problem I will do it , but so far it really isn't needed. The revision is a spacer under the clamp outside diameter .070" thick to keep the clamp from "cocking" . When tightened, the clamp cocked slightly, but it seems to be OK.
> 
> View attachment 91505
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the print for my holder, if anyone wants to experiment with it.
> 
> This project works and so I will call it complete. I am satisfied with it.
> 
> Mark Frazier   :victory:


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## Mark_f

bbutcher said:


> Nice job. I made a tangential tool holder a couple of years ago, and have had some issues with the tool slipping under heavy cuts. I am thinking I will make a new holder with a set screw under the bottom end of the bit to prevent this, as well as an adjustment for height as the bit is re-sharpened.
> 
> Bob



I plan to do that too. I am going to make a couple more of these with the screw going in from the other side and a bottom stop that is removable ( in case I don't need it or it gets in the way), l can put it on or take it off. I am also changing the angle from 12 degree to 14 degree.


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## Winegrower

I have a 10" Logan with AXA QCTP, a number of tool holders with inserts, etc.    Would someone please explain the advantage or purpose of the tangential tool holder?   
Thanks!


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## Mark_f

Winegrower said:


> I have a 10" Logan with AXA QCTP, a number of tool holders with inserts, etc.    Would someone please explain the advantage or purpose of the tangential tool holder?
> Thanks!



That is a good question and I am glad someone asked it, as I would also like to know the answer.It is just another type of tool holder with some advantages and some disadvantages just like any other tool holder.

The advantages , as far as I can see, are easier tool grinding, better use of the square lathe tool bit, they do cut good, finish is good but not necessarily better than any other, you can face and turn without changing or adjusting the tool position. I do like the tool and will probably use it most of the time. I still keep the others as they have their place too.

So, it boils down to it is the latest fad, but a good one. I prefer to use HSS bits,. I only use carbide when I absolutely have to. That is MY choice and opinion though as is all the statements I made here.


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## ogberi

Ditto on what Mark said.  I like them because of the above reasons, plus they don't tend to chatter as much.  The forces go down the tool, and it's better supported than sticking out at 90 degrees from the holder.  The cutting edge has more support, and I've noticed less tendency to chip it on hard materials.  A round tool gives a good finish, due to the radius at the tip. Clearance and rake are built in by design, and the single grind is real fast to do, and simple to touch up.  The chips can get annoying, but I've had long stringy chips even with conventional tools. 

For me, it's versatile enough that it's my go-to tool.  The others get used, but I think they get jealous.  :lmao:


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## rbertalotto

I have been using a Diamond Tool Holder for a number of years on a 12 X 36 Jet lathe.

Advantages:
Extreme ease of sharpening with 100% repeatable results
Easy to set up properly in the lathe
Can be used on all metals and plastics.....I use it on cast, brass, aluminum, SS, delrin.....
Easy to have a rounded bit for extremely fine finish and a pointed bit for deeper cuts


For smaller lathes, it seems less power and RPMs are required.

As far as "stringing chips"...With my lathe (DC variable Speed) if I simply speed up or slow down just a few RPMs, the stringing stops.

I've never had the tool slip in the holder. Even on relatively deep interrupted cuts.

The only time I use any other cutter is for crowning rifle barrels as the Diamond has a hard time fitting where I need it.


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## Mark_f

As I "play" with this tool more, I like it more and more. I don't have the stringy chip problem everyone talks about either. I think the speed and feed has a lot to do with that. 

I am getting material tomorrow to make 3 more of these tools a left, a right , and another undetermined. I also intend to try a round one. and I have some changes and mods from the original I made. If it gets warm enough to make them. I'll post pics when they are done.


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## ogberi

:rubbinghands:
Another convert to the Tangential side...


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## Dranreb

rbertalotto said:


> I have been using a Diamond Tool Holder for a number of years on a 12 X 36 Jet lathe.
> 
> Advantages:
> Extreme ease of sharpening with 100% repeatable results
> Easy to set up properly in the lathe
> Can be used on all metals and plastics.....I use it on cast, brass, aluminum, SS, delrin.....
> Easy to have a rounded bit for extremely fine finish and a pointed bit for deeper cuts
> 
> 
> For smaller lathes, it seems less power and RPMs are required.
> 
> As far as "stringing chips"...With my lathe (DC variable Speed) if I simply speed up or slow down just a few RPMs, the stringing stops.



As Roy says, plus they're as convenient and predictable to use as an index-able tool holder if you sharpen both ends of the bit and have a couple of spares ready.

And of course without the expense of buying index-able stuff.

Bernard


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## Mac1

mark_f said:


> A lot of times I get a long string chip with the conventional tool also. It has a lot to do with feeds and speeds, but mostly the feed rate.
> 
> I made the revised clamp and it is much much better. One note here: I found if I filed a relief in both directions in the corner of the clamp washer, it seats much better. I believe it will take a lot to make the bit slip , if it will at all. I haven't tried an interrupted cut, but this tool seems to handle anything I do. I am really impressed with it.
> 
> Now to make the sharpening jig.
> 
> :victory:



Really would like to see the sharpening jig.
Nice work on the toolholder.


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