# Just added a 101.21200 to my shop out west



## matthewsx (Mar 15, 2020)

I've been suffering lathe withdrawals since my Seneca Falls Star 9" is 2000 miles away. I found this little guy on Craigslist, not the upgrade I've been hoping for but it should keep me busy for a little while.




She's rusty but the spindle turns smooth so hopefully just a clean-up and paint.

John


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## matthewsx (Mar 15, 2020)

So, I'm this far into it today.




Just wondering what the consensus  on bearings is. They seem tight and smooth, should I replace them anyway since I'm this close?
I may have to drive the spindle out with the chuck attached if I can't get it loose, would that be a deciding factor?

Thanks,

John


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## Superburban (Mar 16, 2020)

Rust on the headstock of those lathes, is a good sign. Indicates it is a cast iron/steel, instead of the cast Zmak. Beyond cosmetics, it does not look bad. I would not worry about the bearings, untel you make your first chip, and see if there is any problems. I have done tons of stuff with the same lathe, and the older Atlas 618. Clean it up, and enjoy it.


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## wa5cab (Mar 16, 2020)

That's correct.  It is a shame that the Atlas lathe line started out about 1932 with a 9" with two or three parts made out of Zamak that they soon learned shouldn't have been and and replaced them with cast iron parts.  And then 48 years later, someone else thought that they would get a raise and presumably an attaboy for saving money by making the MK2 headstock and legs out of Zamak and effectively killed their 6" business.


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## matthewsx (Mar 16, 2020)

Yeah, I wouldn't even have gone to look if it was the Zamak unit. I understand they didn't make too many of those but it probably did kill any chance of keeping the line going. I paid $280 for it and feel like it was a decent deal, paid $300 for my Star but it has plain bearings so at least this is better in that department. 

Any tips on getting the chuck off other than more PB Blaster and maybe some heat?

Cheers,

John


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## wa5cab (Mar 16, 2020)

You may have to pull the spindle in order to do it safely.


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## matthewsx (Mar 16, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> You may have to pull the spindle in order to do it safely.


Does it just press out the front like it looks? I have the pulley and back gear off.

Correction, Gear, spindle back is still on.


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## markba633csi (Mar 16, 2020)

I would leave the bearings as is till later and focus on other things- if it is like mine it'll need attention in various other places
It uses a 2L size belt- USA bearings and belts carries them- I think it's a 29" size but depends on your motor and mounting position
-Mark


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## wa5cab (Mar 16, 2020)

His reason for wanting to pull the spindle is to break loose and remove a stuck chuck, not necessarily to change the bearings.

REF:  Atlas Lathe 06 3950 MK2 CI Ball Rev 1.pdf file in Downloads, page 15.

Mathewsx, I've never actually had my hands on a MK2 but my assumption from looking at the exploded view parts list is that you would first remove everything on the spindle external to the left side of the headstock.  From your description you would next loosen the collar set screw and remove the 123-140 threaded collar.  Then remove the 341-374 Large Spindle Back Gear and two #404 Woodruff Keys.  One of the keys may already be removed.  Then from the drawing, it looks like the spindle will go out the right side of the headstock, leaving the left hand bearing in the left end of the headstock and maybe the right hand one, although it bay come out on the spindle.

Anyway, with the spindle out of the headstock, you should be able to get a strap wrench around it near the right end.  Put a large piece of hex stock in the chuck with the jaws solidly tightened on it.  If you have one, you can now use an impact tool (either air or electric) and socket on the hex stock to break loose the chuck.


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## matthewsx (Mar 17, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> His reason for wanting to pull the spindle is to break loose and remove a stuck chuck, not necessarily to change the bearings.
> 
> REF:  Atlas Lathe 06 3950 MK2 CI Ball Rev 1.pdf file in Downloads, page 15.
> 
> ...



That's pretty much what I was thinking. Possibly take a couple of pieces of aluminum or hardwood and drill a hole just smaller than the spindle (through two pieces making a split fixture) that I can clamp into my vise. 

The biggest thing I can think of is not being in a hurry. I'll get it done but rushing might make it take longer....

Cheers,

John


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## Aaron_W (Mar 17, 2020)

I saw that one, thank you for removing temptation.


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## BB-Machining (Mar 17, 2020)

Can you post a picture of what the woodruff key at the very front of the spindle looks like, its the one that holds the direct drive coupling in place


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## matthewsx (Mar 17, 2020)

See my reply to your other post.


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## wa5cab (Mar 17, 2020)

BB-,

I think that I would consider the front of the spindle the right end, where the chuck goes.  But I would refer to the end where one of the keys goes as the left end rather than the rear.

In any case, the direct drive coupling is retained on the spindle by an external circlip or external snap ring.  The piece that keeps the coupling from spinning on the spindle is a Woodruff key, specifically a #404.  It is about 1/2" long by 1/8" thick by 3/16" high.  

I can't seem to find a photo of a Woodruff key, but go to https://www.mcmaster.com/woodruff-keys.  In the upper left of the screen will be a side view and an isometric drawing of one.


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## matthewsx (Mar 17, 2020)

Any tips on getting the spindle back gear off? I have the collar off but it doesn't want to budge and I don't have my good pullers out here. Also kinda wary of breaking the gear.

John


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## matthewsx (Mar 17, 2020)

I'm also looking for cross slide and compound handles if anyone has extras. And the tumbler plunger pin too.


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## wa5cab (Mar 18, 2020)

The parts drawing shows 2 #10-24 set screws in that area.  Confirm that they were both in the collar and not one of them in the back gear.  Other than that, there does not appear to be any other reason for the gear not to come off other than that it is just stuck to the spindle and woodruff key by dis-use.  Try moving the spindle an eighth of an inch or less in the direction of the tailstock,  That should be enough movement to free up the gear and not enough to run the key into the bearing.  

Best way in which to pull the spindle is to make up a spindle remover set.  You will need a length of 1/2" UNF all-thread through the spindle and receiver tube,, some half inch nuts and washers. a piece of pipe or mechanical tubing (the receiver tube) with an ID just larger than the OD of the bearings. and an end-plate for the right end with about 1/2" ID and with an OD the same as that of the receiver tube.  Assemble that in place and move the spindle just slightly.  I would guess that would free up the gear.  Remove it, remove the Woodruff key, and finish pulling the spindle.


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## matthewsx (Mar 18, 2020)

Yes, two set screws both in the collar. The spindle doesn't want to budge with the methods I've tried so far, I'll have to look into building a puller.

Thanks,

John


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## matthewsx (Mar 18, 2020)

Got the spindle out this afternoon, strapped her down and went to town with my trusty Harbor Freight deadblow....







More PB blaster and I'll see if I can get the chuck free....

John


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## DavidR8 (Mar 19, 2020)

Do you have any Kroil? 
I’ve always found it to be super effective 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wa5cab (Mar 19, 2020)

OK.  And what I can see of the spindle under where the cone pulley and small gear go loos much better than most.  But I wonder why the Timken Cup came out with it?  The cone should have come out but not the cup.  Something hinky there.


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## matthewsx (Mar 19, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Do you have any Kroil?
> I’ve always found it to be super effective
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I like Kroil but don't have any here. Last I checked you had to mail order it directly, is that still the case?

John


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## matthewsx (Mar 19, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> OK.  And what I can see of the spindle under where the cone pulley and small gear go loos much better than most.  But I wonder why the Timken Cup came out with it?  The cone should have come out but not the cup.  Something hinky there.



It's a sealed bearing, NTN USA 6205.

John


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## wa5cab (Mar 19, 2020)

As far as I know, yes.  That's how I have always ordered it.


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## DavidR8 (Mar 19, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> I like Kroil but don't have any here. Last I checked you had to mail order it directly, is that still the case?
> 
> John



I don’t know to be honest. I’ve had my can for ages and I don’t even remember where I got it... CRS syndrome 


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## wa5cab (Mar 19, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> It's a sealed bearing, NTN USA 6205.
> John



Duhhh!  I saw 21200 and read it as 10200, sorry.  Disregard those sentences.


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## matthewsx (Mar 19, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> Duhhh!  I saw 21200 and read it as 10200, sorry.  Disregard those sentences.



No problem, I figure half of these conversations is to understand what's going on now and the other half is so people can look at it ten years on and figure out what they have....

Cheers,

John


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## wa5cab (Mar 19, 2020)

OK.  If you don't happen to know (or the person a decade from now doesn't), the 10200 and 10100 both have the same tapered roller bearings as did the 618 and 101.21400.  The 101.21200 and 3950 are the only ball bearing spindle metal working lathes that Atlas built


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## matthewsx (Mar 19, 2020)

Got her cleaned up today.


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## matthewsx (Mar 20, 2020)

Paint....




Still struggling with this chuck though, 1/2" impact hasn't gotten it to budge


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## wa5cab (Mar 20, 2020)

Give it a whack every day followed by re-applying the penetrating oil.  It will eventually come off.


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## matthewsx (Mar 20, 2020)

That is the plan, soaking it in WD40 now after heating it up too.

Oh, and the ultimate weapon to make sure it comes off. I ordered a replacement spindle off eBay

John


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## wa5cab (Mar 21, 2020)

Unless you mean that literally (immersed in WD40), WD40 is not a particularly good penetrant.


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## matthewsx (Mar 21, 2020)

Yes, literally immersed in it.

It's what I have here now, I can go out and get other stuff I guess but not sure anything is going to get it loose....

John


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## LX Kid (Mar 23, 2020)

Mine was stuck when I bought it also.  I engaged the back gear and used a piece of 2x4 and hammer to hit one of the jaws on the chuck and it spun loose.  But you have already removed the spindle so I only have one suggestion.   Use wood blocks in a vice on both sides of the spindle shaft and try hitting one of the jaws with a piece of 2x4 and hammer.  Comes off counter-clockwise.


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## matthewsx (Mar 23, 2020)

LX Kid said:


> Mine was stuck when I bought it also.  I engaged the back gear and used a piece of 2x4 and hammer to hit one of the jaws on the chuck and it spun loose.  But you have already removed the spindle so I only have one suggestion.   Use wood blocks in a vice on both sides of the spindle shaft and try hitting one of the jaws with a piece of 2x4 and hammer.  Comes off counter-clockwise.



This is way more stuck that yours was. I did try engaging the back gear but these things are pretty fragile and I wasn't willing to go very far with that effort. I have the spindle securely clamped in my vise and have been using an air impact gun on it with no success. 

Thanks for the tips anyway, they might come in useful for someone else who's chuck isn't as stuck on.

John


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## BB-Machining (Mar 23, 2020)

Chuck a piece of round sideways, put a long cheater pipe on it.


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## Superburban (Mar 23, 2020)

Agreed. Many impacts do not have close to the same torque that you can do with a breaker bar, or anything that gives leverage.


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## matthewsx (Mar 24, 2020)

So I went up to Fernley Nevada and picked up my shop trailer. Among all the other stuff was this old Snap-On roller and some IKEA counter top material. Seems like just the right size, will have to make some cuts to tell if it's going to be stable enough.




Cheers,

John


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## BB-Machining (Mar 25, 2020)

Did you get the chuck off yet?


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## matthewsx (Mar 25, 2020)

BB-Machining said:


> Did you get the chuck off yet?



No, but it's been soaking while I attended to other projects the past few days. Will try again today.

John


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## matthewsx (Mar 25, 2020)

Finally....


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## BB-Machining (Mar 25, 2020)

Nice job! What method did you use to get it off?


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## matthewsx (Mar 25, 2020)

Your technique

Thank you....

It also helped that I had just the right piece of round stock in the trailer I picked up on Sunday. Now to get both bearings pressed solidly into their pockets.

John


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## BB-Machining (Mar 25, 2020)

Your welcome, glad everyone could help you out! Keep us posted how she comes along and your new projects you get done


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## srfallsallot (Mar 25, 2020)

To late to help. I have used liquid nitrogen or dry ice to separate frozen (HA HA) metal items. It works very well for future reference.


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## matthewsx (Mar 25, 2020)

srfallsallot said:


> To late to help. I have used liquid nitrogen or dry ice to separate frozen (HA HA) metal items. It works very well for future reference.



Don't have any in the shop but I will keep it in mind.

John


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## DavidR8 (Mar 25, 2020)

Glad to see you got it unstuck. 
Any obvious reason why it was so stuck?


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## matthewsx (Mar 25, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Glad to see you got it unstuck.
> Any obvious reason why it was so stuck?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


RUST


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## DavidR8 (Mar 25, 2020)

Ugh, hopefully there's no damage


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## kb58 (Mar 25, 2020)

Never mind.


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## matthewsx (Mar 25, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Ugh, hopefully there's no damage



No damage that I can tell. The spindle has virtually no runout and is in good shape. I got it re-installed just in time for the new one to arrive....


Cheers,

John


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## srfallsallot (Mar 26, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> Don't have any in the shop but I will keep it in mind.
> 
> John


I get the dry ice at local grocery store.


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## matthewsx (Apr 2, 2020)

Well, here she is.




Got down to the end and the metal fairies had made off with the cross slide gib. I actually spent more time looking for it than t took me to make a new one.




Now to get the chuck cleaned up, paint to motor and keep looking for a cross slide crank handle but it's just about ready to make some chips....


John


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## Aaron_W (Apr 2, 2020)

That cleaned up really nicely.


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## wa5cab (Apr 3, 2020)

The only obvious thing that I see that isn't correct in the general case is that 99% of the time, the QCTP should be set square with the lathe's longitudinal axis and not square with the compound slide unless the compound slide happens to be set on zero degrees or 90 degrees.  About 0.99% of the remaining 1 %, it would be rotated 90 degrees CW putting the turning tool holder on the tailstock side for specialty work near the tailstock.  The only case I can recall after 40 years of use is setting it to briefly to +/- 15 degrees in order to cut a 45 degree bevel using a 60 degree cutter.

Otherwise, it does look much better.


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## matthewsx (Apr 3, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> The only obvious thing that I see that isn't correct in the general case is that 99% of the time, the QCTP should be set square with the lathe's longitudinal axis and not square with the compound slide unless the compound slide happens to be set on zero degrees or 90 degrees.  About 0.99% of the remaining 1 %, it would be rotated 90 degrees CW putting the turning tool holder on the tailstock side for specialty work near the tailstock.  The only case I can recall after 40 years of use is setting it to briefly to +/- 15 degrees in order to cut a 45 degree bevel using a 60 degree cutter.
> 
> Otherwise, it does look much better.



Just set on there temporarily when this photo was taken. It’s moved around now


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## Superburban (Apr 3, 2020)

I constantly change the position on mine. All depends on what I am doing, and how I want the tool to meet the work piece. I keep a stubby combination wrench on the nut, that sits about the same angle, and a bit shorter then the QCTP's lock handle. The only time I worry about it being parallel to the cross slide, is when I have a parting tool in place.


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## wa5cab (Apr 4, 2020)

I forgot to add that if you use hand-ground HSS cutters, how the tool post sits can vary.  But if you use carbide, they are normally designed to run with the cutter holder perpendicular to the work surface.  I pretty much never use HSS.


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## matthewsx (Apr 4, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> I forgot to add that if you use hand-ground HSS cutters, how the tool post sits can vary.  But if you use carbide, they are normally designed to run with the cutter holder perpendicular to the work surface.  I pretty much never use HSS.



I use both HSS and carbides with my Seneca Falls lathe, just messing with some HSS bits I bought off eBay that have some interesting grinds here. Right now I'm fighting with an old drive belt, have a new one on order but it won't be here till Monday

John


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## matthewsx (Apr 5, 2020)

First chips....




Getting the motor securely mounted such that the belt wouldn't slip and flip around was a challenge but it's working now. Ran it at top speed doing this and the surface finish is pretty good. I can see doing some fine small work with this lathe and I realized last night after reading a post on another group that it will be perfect for a sailboat machine shop

Cheers,

John


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## Aaron_W (Apr 5, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> First chips....
> 
> View attachment 319601
> 
> ...




"sailboat machine shop"

Oh, yeah that sounds like an inexpensive hobby.


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## matthewsx (Apr 6, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> "sailboat machine shop"
> 
> Oh, yeah that sounds like an inexpensive hobby.



I've been sailing for many years and it definitely can be expensive. But, the kind of sailor who wants a lathe on his boat is someone like me who is capable of working on every system and likely bought his boat like I did for very little cash and a whole lot of sweat equity. I love sailing for the same reason I love machining, it allows me to learn new things and always be pushing my limits.

My current boat is only 26ft and ~4000lbs so definitely no machine shop is going on it but if I ever get a blue water passage making boat you can bet it'll be fully equipped for making replacement parts underway. I'm currently reading the US Navy Machinery Repairman manual.



			https://maritime.org/doc/pdf/machinery-repairman.pdf
		


Good stuff once you get it to download.

Cheers,

John


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## matthewsx (Apr 7, 2020)

Cue the sad trombone music.




I thought I would try parting some steel and this happened.

John


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## DavidR8 (Apr 7, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> Cue the sad trombone music.
> 
> View attachment 320090
> 
> ...



Ugh! That totally sucks. 
Must have had a flaw in the casting right?


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## matthewsx (Apr 7, 2020)

I can see it's been crashed before so maybe. There's not much material there anyway so I doubt it can be welded successfully.

John


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## matthewsx (Apr 7, 2020)

I ordered one of the newer rectangular ones off eBay. Not happy with what I had to pay but glad it was available.

John


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## matthewsx (Apr 10, 2020)

Cross Feed Crank & Handle Assembly




Part sourced from Grizzly....

John


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## matthewsx (Apr 12, 2020)

The replacement compound casting arrived and it fits perfectly NOS I think. It also looks a little beefier than the old one and the square corners do go well with this model.




John


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## wa5cab (Apr 12, 2020)

Looks great!  I wonder why the sides of the new compound slide aren't painted?


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## matthewsx (Apr 12, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> Looks great!  I wonder why the sides of the new compound slide aren't painted?



No idea but that's the way it came and I'll leave it like that. I'm assuming that's the original paint color too.

John


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## wa5cab (Apr 14, 2020)

OK.


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