# Tap and Die set



## paul_cpu (Sep 3, 2020)

I want to make some handles for my lathe, I'll need to cut some threads.  I have looked around and this seams like a decent set:  https://www.aimsindustrial.com.au/s...MI8Pj05c_M6wIVkTUrCh1UlAbLEAQYASABEgLu6fD_BwE. Id liek to knwo some options before I pull the trigger.


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## ddickey (Sep 3, 2020)

They are carbon steel. Look for an HSS set.


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## mmcmdl (Sep 3, 2020)

ddickey said:


> They are carbon steel. Look for an HSS set.


And be ready to PAY !


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## ddickey (Sep 3, 2020)

This is true. But you should be able to find a cheaper set if carbon steel is okay for him. Or just buy what you need at your local hardware store.


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## Martin W (Sep 3, 2020)

Personally I would buy what I need right now at your local hardware store. Watch your local Buy and Sell. There are always taps and dies for sale. I bought a bucket full . Easily 200 taps and dies for $60.00 . Most brand new unused Butterfield. 
Mind you,  where I live as we have a plethora of used industrial tools for sale constantly.
Cheers
Martin


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## paul_cpu (Sep 3, 2020)

OK thanks for the advice.  Are there any brands to specifically look out for, I don't want to buy a crappy set.


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## ericc (Sep 3, 2020)

Almost the worst garage sale tap marked HSS will be better than those department store carbon steel taps.  I bought some lousy ones at Lowe's and complained to the manufacturer.  They sent me a new set, which I promptly gave away.  One of the taps tapped large, and some screws wouldn't engage.

Internet wisdom says that the cheap carbon steel taps shatter when you hit them with a punch, so they can be removed easily when you break the tap in a hole.  This is NOT true.  I suspect that this factoid came from the observation that vintage fine gunsmithing carbon steel taps can be shattered with a punch.  The cheap ones definitely cannot and will cost a carbide endmill to remove.

Buy taps one at a time from an industrial supply store.  The guy who goofed up the hole ended up going to Fastenal.  One tap cost almost half the price of the big box set.  Furthermore, it was made in China.  Didn't matter.  It was name brand, HSS, and fine quality.  The Lowe's taps were made in the US.  If you looked at them side by side, you could see the difference in quality.  Scary.


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## graham-xrf (Sep 3, 2020)

I have a couple of sets very like yours. They seem similar - except for the price! Mine cost nothing like that. For what I was doing at the time, they did not have to be great. Of course, most of the sizes never got used.
I agree with the folk here. Buy what you need at the time you need it. Make it quality. Let your collection build up over time.


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## paul_cpu (Sep 3, 2020)

The thing is I am not sure what is good quality, I think what I'll do is look for a HSS set thats not to much.  Then at swapmeets/online/gumtree buy them one buy one


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## Winegrower (Sep 3, 2020)

If you look very closely at cheap and quality taps, the difference I can see is at the cutting edge.  Good taps and dies have obvious sharp well formed edges.  The cheap ones look terrible.


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## ahazi (Sep 3, 2020)

The HSS tap and drill sets from Shars are very good. I have them for years and they perform very well. The price is very reasonable.





__





						Search results for: 'Tap sets'
					

Shars Tool




					www.shars.com
				








Ariel


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## brino (Sep 3, 2020)

Winegrower said:


> The cheap ones look terrible.



Yep!
Also, I once had a cheap set and the dies would screw onto a bolt at an angle much different than 90 degrees.
If aligning them square to the work is wrong then how the heck are they at all useful?!?!?!

-brino


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## matthewsx (Sep 4, 2020)

+1 on buying individuals from an industrial supplier. Just Google industrial tool supply and call the one closest to you. Tell them what you want and pay what it costs to get a quality HSS tool, most suppliers will have different grades and can tell you which to buy for your use.

Taping holes in metal can be one of the most frustrating things we get to do. Buy the good stuff and use plenty of oil.

John


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## NortonDommi (Sep 4, 2020)

If you are in Melbourne there are many good tool suppliers.  What are you going to use a M2 tap for?  Making clocks? Make a list of the common sizes that you will use and buy as individual sets.  Those boxed sets usually only have intermediate taps which are hard to start and don't bottom.  I have a personal preference for Volkel serial taps: https://voelkel.com/en/   One of my favourite suppliers is in South Island and he is an importer with a good selection and overnight service but I have bought from Volkel direct and taps and dies have arrived within a week.  
  Regardless of who you buy from HSS are the way to go.  Buying what you need as need arises will soon build up a nice collection.  Check out secondhand tool dealers as well as they often have a good selection and you can find some real gems at good prices.
$368.94 will buy you a lot of good quality in actually useful sizes.


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## Ken from ontario (Sep 4, 2020)

I have been very happy with my purchases of individual HSS taps and dies from this eBay seller named ZIMI-HK, he also sells Spiral fluted taps in a few popular sizes, hope he's also selling on eBay .au but the quality of his taps are better than average and don't cost an arm and a leg leg:


			https://www.ebay.ca/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=zimi-hk&item=301840009585&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313&_nkw=HSS+taps&_sacat=0


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## paul_cpu (Sep 5, 2020)

OK, lot's for me to digest.  I want to make some handles for the mini lathe, I will used the taps and dies to make the threads to the new handles such as this:






This will be a significant task for me as I am new.  And no I will not cast my own alloy LOL.  I think I will just buy the 2 I need for now.


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## tjb (Sep 5, 2020)

paul_cpu said:


> OK, lot's for me to digest.  I want to make some handles for the mini lathe, I will used the taps and dies to make the threads to the new handles such as this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wise decision.


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## Papa Charlie (Sep 5, 2020)

I have purchased sets of tap and dies before. Use a fraction of the taps and never seem to have the right one in the set for those special jobs. 
The last set I bought was almost 35 years ago. I do buy individual taps or dies as I need them for the job. Oddly enough I have a lot of them but I would never call them a set as they seem to be in the strange realm along with many of the standards. I have taps down to 4-40 and up to 3/4-24, but not every size.


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## tjb (Sep 5, 2020)

I bought a Bosch tap and die set about 25 years ago that I have been very pleased with.  I've used it heavily and so far have only broken one tap (1/4-20) that I replaced with an Irwin.  The product information says it's made from "high quality tool steel, heat-treated and tempered".





No idea where it was made, but given the age and quality, I'm guessing USA. 

About a year ago, I learned about power tapping from an Oxtool video.  Tom Lipton made it very clear that should only be done with good quality 2- or 3-flute taps, depending on size.  I bought three different sizes of Hertel HSS taps.


 I made a 1" thick aluminum index table that had 120 1/4-20 through holes tapped in it.  I power-tapped all using a HSS tap and didn't break a single tap during the operation.  I seriously doubt I could have done that if I were not using HSS.

Bottom line:  I'm glad I have the Bosch set.  It's not HSS, but it's very good quality.  And the only time I broke a tap, it was my fault because I was being too aggressive.  But it has its limitations.  For applications like the index table, I probably could have used the 1/4-20 from the Bosch set, but the operation would have been hugely more cumbersome.

If I had it to do over, I think I would have bought in the same fashion I did.  When I got the Bosch set, I needed it for general mechanic-style applications: a likelihood that there would be a variety of tap or die operations in who-knows-what sizes.  A good quality set made a lot of sense.  (I haven't looked at sets in quite awhile, so I have no idea of the cost-efficiency of this strategy anymore.)  However, for specific applications of a common size, especially if the purpose is repetitive, I'd go with HSS.

Hope this helps.  Good luck.

Regards,
Terry


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## Skierdude (Sep 5, 2020)

Sutton make very good tap and die products. Their carbon steel sets are better quality than many non-professional products - hence the relatively high price. If you are threading aluminium or even low carbon steel they do a pretty good job. I use Sutton HSS taps which are superb quality and quite expensive but rather than buying a full set I buy the sizes I use frequently and add to that when I need another size. For taps I buy in sets of 3 - taper, intermediate and bottom.


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## NortonDommi (Sep 5, 2020)

*paul_cpu *Yeah, it can be a bit overwhelming facing something totally new and I have to admit I am guilty of not remembering just how daunting what today is commonplace once was.  Keeping in mind that this is all new to you I would suggest finding a copy of Machinist Handbook to download.  This will be your bible.
  With hand-tapping the most crucial thing is to have the correct size hole for the thread you wish to cut. Too small and you _will_ break taps. Another thing is starting the tap straight.  If you are just starting out might I suggest making a tap guide? This is just a piece of material with a straight hole through it that you place upon whatever you are tapping that guides the tap vertically into the hole. A big help until you develop a feel for the job.
You will need to consult a Tap - Drill Chart that will give you the correct drill size to use for a particular size and thread fastener. Here is one such below that also has some information about how to work out the size. I know Australia is 100% metric but you will come across a lot of Imperial fasteners especially if you work on older machines or most American stuff. 
Whatever you spend your money on buy quality. Taps are consumables, they wear out but treated with care last a very long time in,(most),hobby use.  The biggest difference between an El cheapo and anything of quality is the ease of use, a clean cut and less likelihood of breakage with a quality item.


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## Ken from ontario (Sep 5, 2020)

The best deals I have seen in a tap &die set have been the commonly available/least expensive high carbon steel sets, you get all sizes in both metric and imperial for fraction of the cost of buying induvial "top quality " taps or dies.

I think to a new hobbyist it makes more sense to start with a half decent high Carbon steel set that has all the common sizes , I can come up with  2 or three scenarios when you need most the sizes in the set, like repairing an old unknown machine( USA made or Chinese) , upgrading a tool when you have no idea what size screws were used, it is always better to have a complete set handy, and then in the future when buy specific size set/grub screw, small bolt , big bolts etc ,. then  decide  whether to invest in more expensive HSS individual taps and dies.


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## paul_cpu (Sep 5, 2020)

Ken from ontario said:


> The best deals I have seen in a tap &die set have been the commonly available/least expensive high carbon steel sets, you get all sizes in both metric and imperial for fraction of the cost of buying induvial "top quality " taps or dies.
> 
> I think to a new hobbyist it makes more sense to start with a half decent high Carbon steel set that has all the common sizes , I can come up with  2 or three scenarios when you need most the sizes in the set, like repairing an old unknown machine( USA made or Chinese) , upgrading a tool when you have no idea what size screws were used, it is always better to have a complete set handy, and then in the future when buy specific size set/grub screw, small bolt , big bolts etc ,. then  decide  whether to invest in more expensive HSS individual taps and dies.



I think this is part of the reason I wanted to start with "a set" I don't know what I don't know and being in Aus delivery can be slow and good quality tools we can't just goto a hardware store they typically sell only rubbish.


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## paul_cpu (Sep 5, 2020)

NortonDommi said:


> ... finding a copy of Machinist Handbook to download.  This will be your bible.


Are you referring to this:  https://www.amazon.com.au/Machinerys-Handbook-Large-Print-1/dp/0831136316/


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## NortonDommi (Sep 5, 2020)

Yep. You can find a lot cheaper than $200 though. Internet Archive has the 29th edition for download: https://archive.org/details/machinerys-handbook-29th-edition/page/952/mode/2up  if you want to have a look at what it contains.

As to tool supply. Melbourne has a huge industrial base so chances are wherever you live there is an engineering shop nearby.  Drop in and ask a few questions, you will find most Tradesmen are only to happy to help.  They can tell you who their local suppliers are.   There is always Hare & Forbes, Machinery House, not a favourite but their prices are reasonable on most things and they are across Australia.
 Just Tools: https://www.justtools.com.au/engineering/  but they only sell taps and dies in sets, sort of a hardware store type outfit.
Engineering Tool Supplies: http://www.engtooling.com/
  For comparison here's two from this side of the ditch: https://www.carbidenz.co.nz/ https://toolsnz.com/   E-bay has some good buys and no doubt I will upset a few people but all of the Chinese stuff I have bought has been good quality and very cheap compared to some industrial outlets for essentially the same item.  Check what regulations apply to imports so you don't get hit with unexpected costs in importing anything from overseas.  

 It pays to shop around as not only can there be a big variation in price but what is a listed retail price is sometimes so over the top you know they will never sell anything at that price so query everything and don't be afraid to point out that if someone wants your money they will have to sharpen their pencil because odds are you will get a better  price with a little effort.

Has anybody warned you about the rabbit hole yet?


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