# I admit...I did it...PM 1640E-LB



## johnwell (Nov 27, 2014)

Before I start...I will NOT discuss my sanity here!
Other than that I probably should talk to a professional, but oh well...)

After quite an extensive search on ebay and craigslist and forums I decided to email Matt from Quality Machine tools  to see if he had any used lathes hanging around. Promptly emailed back with the announcement 'nope, nothing decent except a fairly new PM 1640E-LB'. Well, what I was looking for was to 'upgrade' from a 7X12....and somehow this didn't qualify as an 'upgrade', initially, in my mind...more like "are you nuts??"
Going from 85 lbs toy to a roughly 1900 lbs toy kinda feels like "you can, but I wouldn't make it public". Yet here I am...uhhh...confessing that I did just that and so I bought it from Matt. Good deal, hopefully for both of us, but it made me feel good. ) Would I go as far as stating it as a sane decision..probably not, but no hobby expense is...right? RIGHT? Hehheh.
On top of this one might argue that it's probably better if they lock me up is the fact that none of you have seen where I aim to place it in my garage, which completely defines the insanity of such project.
On that note I'd like to point out that, although the members here seem like a seriously friendly, helpful and knowledgeable bunch, it also became somewhat disappointing to read/watch here.
I'm talking pictures posted here...is it really necessary to post pictures of those clean, organized and nicely arranged shops on here?  HA! Rub it in, go ahead. Needless to say that IF I post pics on here they may be edited without background or floor, so you know.
About the machine, that Matt plans to ship out next monday already, I think, and thinking about the garage, this would qualify as one of the better times to break out in a full blown panic.
When I told my wife's dad that he was going to help me when it arrives...he, casually, asked what I was going to do with such a large machine.......well....no idea.
I am a heavy lift crane operator and they generally don't do lathes and such professionally. Do I love to tinker with machines and metal  and the like? Absolutely! Do I have big plans for such a monster lathe? Absolutely not! None, nada, niks.:nuts:
I'm not into guns or even knowledgeable enough for that, but who knows? I brought a bunch of real big bolts from work (wind turbines) so I have plenty steel to destroy.
Which brings me to the fair conclusion that I spend quite a sum of money on senseless behaviour, but I totally justified (in my head) that it's a hobby...period!
So now it all makes sense, right? I think so...:rofl:
Fair warning though...I 'may' have a ....few...questions here and there in the very near future...although!!! I watched enough Youtube vids and read on forums that I consider myself quite the professional.
Sorry, but I really need to think like that to justify this ...hobby... to convince my wife that there is no other way.
On the same note she seems, disturbingly, pleased that I'll spend countless hours 'out of the house'...but that's a whole other subject.)
Please don't judge me too harsh if I ask questions that may reveal that I am not so professional as I may seem in my mind. In my defence though...I'm 55 and a (genuine) Dutch import guy and therefor it can not be excluded that short term memory loss and other delusional patterns may occur in my questions and/or posts. I thank you for your patience with me upfront!
Wish me luck with this endeavour...I need it....Hehheh

John


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## JimDawson (Nov 27, 2014)

Best of luck John.  )  You'll love your new toy.


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## johnwell (Nov 27, 2014)

Thank you Jim!


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## coolidge (Nov 27, 2014)

Go BIG or go home and play dress up with your Barbie dolls, congrats John I like your bravado!


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## johnwell (Nov 27, 2014)

Thank you Coolidge.
I like you already by calling such a well thought through decision (0.03 seconds) bravado....lol


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## richl (Nov 27, 2014)

Nice machine. Ive been looking into. Bigger machines the last few months the pm1640 lb and the pm1640hd are serious considerations. I would loves to hear your impressions as you learn your machine.

Rich


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## fastback (Nov 27, 2014)

What a great lathe to have available. Question, do you have the power to run this size machine?  7.5 hp watch out electric bill.  The only area that it seems short on is the quill travel, 2 1/4 is not very much.  That is the ***** I have about my Heavy Ten. It only has 2 inches of spindle travel.  Even the 12 inch machines have a 3.5 or so of travel.  It sometimes makes drilling and turning between centers a little bit of a pain.

Paul


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## richl (Nov 27, 2014)

Not sure what specs you are looking at the correct specs paul, http://m.ebay.com/itm/331366696255?cmd=VIDESC
Thatz the ebay page with the specs. Nice machine at a decent price.
Rich


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## GA Gyro (Nov 27, 2014)

That is a LOT of lathe there...

And I was concerned moving up from a 1236 to a 1340GT was an extravagant step into too large a machine... 

I, also, will be watching the thread to hear how you like the 16x40 lathe.

BTW: messy and tight shop... please do not kid us... 
The cool pics of the guys with dream shops... well that is the 1%-ers... :lmao:
Most of us have to move things around from time to time... to do specific operations... ondering:
Many a successful hobbyist has the space of a one-car garage (or the wifey will not relinquish the other garage slot)... so they get only one slot.  

I am concerned about the electricity issue... get Matt to fit it with a VFD... then you can run it from 240 single phase... probably need a special circuit though... A rough calculation is 30+ amps... which is a clothes dryer or elec water heater circuit... However you need a bit of reserve for start-up power... so I would consider a 40A circuit... which is 8-GA wire.  

Remember... Pictures... or it did not happen... LOL


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## GK1918 (Nov 27, 2014)

fastback said:


> What a great lathe to have available. Question, do you have the power to run this size machine?  7.5 hp watch out electric bill.  The only area that it seems short on is the quill travel, 2 1/4 is not very much.  That is the ***** I have about my Heavy Ten. It only has 2 inches of spindle travel.  Even the 12 inch machines have a 3.5 or so of travel.  It sometimes makes drilling and turning between centers a little bit of a pain.
> 
> Paul



Paul I lost ya phone no can you email me again on account i'm a heading to you know where}  Sam{  Visicoach @comcast.net.  (I don't know about that PM stuff}
sammy Dighton


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## darkzero (Nov 27, 2014)

Congrats! PLEASE post picks when you get it. Not many people post pics of new 16x lathes.


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## GA Gyro (Nov 27, 2014)

Yes indeed... pics please... :thumbsup:


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## compsurge (Nov 27, 2014)

I'm pretty sure you're no less sane than the rest of us.


Tim


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## GA Gyro (Nov 27, 2014)

compsurge said:


> I'm pretty sure you're no less sane than the rest of us.
> 
> 
> Tim



I believe many of us resemble that remark... :rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## visenfile (Nov 29, 2014)

Your psycho-dynamics are not unusual for a metal enthusiast, I thnk.  I wrestle with a possible first time purchase of new vs old, big vs small every time I look at craigslist and ebay.  Cannot justify a $5K lathe on usage, but almost can on the effect.  Like having your favorite motorcycle parked in the living room.  What will win out it's hard to tell. Great purchase and enjoy!


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## lseguine (Nov 29, 2014)

well congrats to you. know the mental struggles very well having been there on three occasions.  So here I am following what you will be up to with the new machine.  I have been talking to matt as well bout getting something bigger than my last sheen, a 9x20 jet. Know where you say bout the other-half looking and questioning. haven't gotten the suitcases unpacked and here I am looking to spend money on new machines.
:talktogod:here's hopping she will believe the "it's really necessary" line.

keep us posted
Larry from Alaska, now living in Oregon


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## tmarks11 (Nov 29, 2014)

johnwell said:


> I'm talking pictures posted here...is it really necessary to post pictures of those clean, organized and nicely arranged shops on here?  HA! Rub it in, go ahead. Needless to say that IF I post pics on here they may be edited without background or floor


For the record, my garage hasn't been clean since the day I moved in.  I have moved machines from side to side, in a valiant attempt.  But still no success.

So no worries, I doubt your workbenches are any more cluttered than mine.  And the drill press and tablesaw do double duty as shelves...

Congrats on the big beast.  I look forward to hearing your impressions.  I came close to getting something similar (Grizzly G0509G 16x40), but in the end decided to apply my spare change toward a Tormach.  I am sure that I will regret "cheapening" out and getting the lighter weight machine.  Just a note: I went Grizzly instead of PM solely because I am a couple hours away from Grizzly HQ, and drive through there on business every month or so, making it a convenient place to shop/


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## wrmiller (Nov 29, 2014)

Way to go John!

I took a looooong look at that lathe. Until I realized it was too big for a residential/liftgate delivery. Ended up buying a PM1340GT from the same seller. It's the biggest I can handle for now.

Enjoy that big 'ol horse.


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## johnwell (Dec 12, 2014)

TaaaaaDaaaaaaaa....
The machine has landed! Wednesday late afternoon UPS showed up with a 40 footer and a liftgate. Backing up to my garage door was easy and there it was...BIG crate as wide as the trailer almost.
Wider than the raised hinges on the lift gate though...so the recip saw had to come out....cut away one side of the pallet and on to the gate it rolled...sorta.
Heavy s.o.b.! 2300 lbs with the crate and we used a pry bar to overcome the threshold of the trailer...so far so good....we did have the driver back up to the concrete threshold of the garage so the end of the lift would land on it...good thinking if it wasn't for the outwards travel of the lift which made the top of the crate touch the house....no problem, you say and move the truck a couple feet forward...drop the lift,almost, down, truck reverse until lift is just over the threshold and Bob's yer uncle.....
Now this was the first time the lift was actually going lower than a few inches....and UPS, in all it's wisdom, had send, I think, a 1500 lbs liftgate trailer with a 2300 lbs load.....on top of that we estimated the liftgate to be roughly over 250 years old.... it ...uhhh..struggled.
Fear for the whole shebang tipping over we strapped the crate over the back to the lift...and I think that was the only thing preventing the crate to fall flat on it's face! Scary moments...I think, at some point, my wife even yelled my name and that it was tipping over...bless her..)
I was more like...this stuff is repearable and let's go...
My guess is that guys just hide their fear better...hehheh
Lift  almost down...truck backing over sheet of osb in front of garage and so you know...7/16 osb is no match for palletjack wheels with 2300 lbs on it....like butter it went through it. (gravel driveway)
Now that's why you always have big pry bars and burly guys ready at  hand and after some huffin and puffin the show hit the concrete floor in the garage. Driver dropped it where I'd liked it oriented and I wanted him to wait a little to check if the travel of the lathe went well inside the crate also, but he replied he was in a hurry and had to go....oooook..now I got worried and literally starting to attack the crate.
Big pry bar and whoppa..top came off and quickly glanced inside...what would you have done if the driver said "I gotta go NOW"?
First glance...all ok and it's a white and blue lathe and it's kinda big so it's probably mine.
At that point I had to pee like a russian race horse and when I got back in the quite cold garage my father in law informed me that the crate wasn't nailed together but screwed...so from here on out we took whole panels off and no frantic looking pieces.
There it is...sitting proud on 2 pallets high and I am a happy camper so far!

We did it!!!

ok...as soon as I have a lil more time and figger out how to post pics...they're coming...promise!

John
proud father of a PM1640

update: on the concrete, safe, and cleaned a bit and ran a 240 line to there and hooked up and dro hooked up and played with a lot of handles like a full blown pervert I flipped the breaker on....
Mannnn....it's a "she" now...."she" runs BEAUTIFUL and everything runs like butter....even though it's a "she" now, she's unexpectedly quiet! )

Pics to follow...


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## wrmiller (Dec 12, 2014)

Wow, would not have thought that anyone would even attempt to deliver that thing with a lift gate. But at least it's there and in one piece!  )


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## coolidge (Dec 12, 2014)

John has a lot of nerve posting a "machine has landed" post without a single picture.


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## zmotorsports (Dec 12, 2014)

coolidge said:


> John has a lot of nerve posting a "machine has landed" post without a single picture.



Ya, I was thinking the same thing.


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## LEEQ (Dec 12, 2014)

Don't be scared of lift gates, you just need the right one. I know a guy that puts his bobcat in his semi boxtruck with a lift gate. He does push down on the box with the forks/bucket as the lift gate goes up and then drives right on in. That machine has to out weight a lot of lathes. I would love for him to come over and drop a lathe like that off for me. What a nice machine. What a nice wife too, lucky devil)


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## Dan_S (Dec 12, 2014)

The next big hurdle, is getting it off the pallets, and onto the floor.


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## tmarks11 (Dec 12, 2014)

johnwell said:


> ... I flipped the breaker on....
> Mannnn....it's a "she" now...."she" runs BEAUTIFUL and everything runs like butter....even though it's a "she" now, she's unexpectedly quiet! )


Make sure your headstock is full, and than get the spindle run-in done before you play around with it much.


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## coolidge (Dec 12, 2014)

My lathe arrived on a truck with a malfunctioning lift gate, nothing the driver tried worked it was stuck in the up position...he was about to wheel the lathe back in the truck when it let loose and lowered itself to the ground rather quickly and landed with a thud. The driver was like :yikes:


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## GA Gyro (Dec 12, 2014)

coolidge said:


> John has a lot of nerve posting a "machine has landed" post without a single picture.





zmotorsports said:


> Ya, I was thinking the same thing.



Totally agree!!!!

:whistle:


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## johnwell (Dec 13, 2014)

tmarks11 said:


> Make sure your headstock is full, and than get the spindle run-in done before you play around with it much.




This is a used machine I bought from Quality Machine Tools, so I gathered that that part had been done. )
I did check oil and everything I could think of before I even fired it up.

Appreciate the tip though...good thinking
Thanks,
John


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## johnwell (Dec 13, 2014)

coolidge said:


> My lathe arrived on a truck with a malfunctioning lift gate, nothing the driver tried worked it was stuck in the up position...he was about to wheel the lathe back in the truck when it let loose and lowered itself to the ground rather quickly and landed with a thud. The driver was like :yikes:




There is definitely not enough xanax that can be prescribed for those moments.......
I hope there was no damage to the lathe or your heart valves..

John


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## johnwell (Dec 13, 2014)

Lift before load on it -------------------------------------------------------------------------Pallet cut -away on left




On pallet(s) at location-----------------------------------------------------------------------------                       Level in crane..




Rigged and lifted... --------------------------------------------------------On concrete with leveling feet



Taaa Daaaa


Getting it level in the crane took about 2 cigarettes and a lot of staring. Cranes and centers of gravity may be my bizz, but this was my machine...)
It did level on first lift! Tailstock was already removed cuz that's quite the hunk of iron.
Lifted the lathe, pulled both pallets (what was left of them after cutting to make way for the lift legs) and lowered the lathe as much as possible where I could attach the leveling feet.
You know...the scary part was how the lift would lower it....I borrowed it and did not know how it would react under such a load, but it went super smooth.hew:
I'm telling ya......this PM1640 looks brand new! Awesome deal with Matt.)

Perhaps later I'll write a review after I get some hours/days...years under my belt with this machine. Hehheh

I'm going to enjoy this....
John


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## coolidge (Dec 13, 2014)

johnwell said:


> There is definitely not enough xanax that can be prescribed for those moments.......
> I hope there was no damage to the lathe or your heart valves..
> 
> John



The lathe was fine but it was a clear danger to the driver, I said "dude". He was hot I tell you. Then he couldn't get it raised back up, it would move like a 1/4 inch and stop. He called in for a repair guy to come out and they had him flip some breaker somewhere and it started working again, sort of.


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## johnwell (Dec 13, 2014)

Dan_S said:


> The next big hurdle, is getting it off the pallets, and onto the floor.



I took my time, Dan and all went as planned and without any surprises.
Cutting away 2 pallets is kind of a #$@%$ though.
You live very close to me, I noticed....you happen to have a fireplace and need a bit of wood? )

John


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## coolidge (Dec 13, 2014)

John any ideas on what your first lathe project will be?


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## GA Gyro (Dec 13, 2014)

johnwell said:


> View attachment 89689
> View attachment 89690
> 
> Lift before load on it -------------------------------------------------------------------------Pallet cut -away on left
> ...



THAT... is a LOT of lathe... Good buy! :thumbsup:

And I thought I was gonna go too big (and expensive) by upgrading from a 1236 to a 1340GT... :think1:

OTOH:  The lathe upgrade (and the mill upgrade from a 932 to a 935) will put me with a little more machine than I 'think' I will need... ondering:  And we 'know' about 'all I will need'... :rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## compsurge (Dec 13, 2014)

This would have been too big:


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## coolidge (Dec 13, 2014)

Ahahaha hey man I want a lathe that barely fits in a Semi! That thing looks a beast John I look forward to your future posts.


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## johnwell (Dec 13, 2014)

coolidge said:


> John any ideas on what your first lathe project will be?



First project will be me...recover ...:lmao:
Then...where do I start...basically building/organizing some sort of a shop.
Getting my little machine shop mini mill down (my mini machine shop was in my hobby room upstairs...heated..building a wall to separate the garage into a room to keep the machines at, at least, a minimum temperature.
In between all that going through all steps of checking out the lathe, fiddle here and there with the little material I have in bigger stuff than for a 7X12 lathe...sorta gotta get 'geared' again towards this size.
Luckily, thinking ahead, I brought home a bunch of real big bolts and nuts from projects I worked on. They are shipping bolts and assembly bolts for wind turbines  and vary from 1" - 2" o.d. about 10" length.
Lots of practice for interrupted cuts and parting off. hehheh.
Still waiting for toolbits to come in so for now all I have is a 3/4 parting blade and 1/2" hss stuff. I never worked with indexable but I think I wanna go there, but they're not here yet.
So much more tooling to get for this size, but it'll happen...3/4 is a bit of a step up and I don't have anything that big....in tooling..) 
Boring bars and you name it...all have to be get. Scouting ebay a lot here..hehheh
(if anybody has a great offer on tooling in the cxa size...I'm all ears!)
Oh! probably first 'project' will be a handle for the cxa toolpost! Yep, really need to get a boring bar quick.
I am, for some reason, kinda obsessed with threading and that was not really possible with the mini lathe accurately, but now...oh boy!
Little downfall on the 1640 is the lack of an extensive gearbox but that doesn't hinder me much....changing gears is easy and doesn't take much time, plus I consider that 'fiddling' and I enjoy that.
This is purely a hobby and in no shape or form a business so I promised myself to not go overboard on pumping money into tooling and such...it'll take time.
On the other hand...if it's worth doing...it's worth overdoing...:lmao:
I'm sure that, along the line, I'll run into all sorts of problems that I'll try to make you guy's problems at that point!) 
So that's, roughly, my 'timeline' for projects.

John


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## coolidge (Dec 13, 2014)

John turning bolts...I dunno that sounds like a good way to rapidly wipe out a bunch of carbide cutters. I tried turning some grade 8 wow FAIL! Even grade 5 were horrible. I think it would be better to practice on some mild steel vs the hardened stuff. I just turned .070 off the end of 4 bolts and it took out 1.5 carbide C6 cutters.


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## johnwell (Dec 13, 2014)

GA said:


> THAT... is a LOT of lathe... Good buy! :thumbsup:
> 
> And I thought I was gonna go too big (and expensive) by upgrading from a 1236 to a 1340GT... :think1:
> 
> OTOH:  The lathe upgrade (and the mill upgrade from a 932 to a 935) will put me with a little more machine than I 'think' I will need... ondering:  And we 'know' about 'all I will need'... :rofl::rofl::rofl:




John...lemme think...................yep, you really need it! Trust me!
Especially you with the gyro...all the nice things you can make just for that! 
I'm jealous, cuz I've been looking at them, on and off, for a long  time and they seem awesome!
(in my ...richer..days, I owned a Hiller 12D and had 8 hours on it)
Still own a bunch of rc helis, but they are collecting dust now for awhile.
Go from this 'thinking line'...."If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing".....so true  )
You already have awesome machines so staying on the path of 'awesomer' only makes perfect sense.

John


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## johnwell (Dec 13, 2014)

coolidge said:


> John turning bolts...I dunno that sounds like a good way to rapidly wipe out a bunch of carbide cutters. I tried turning some grade 8 wow FAIL! Even grade 5 were horrible. I think it would be better to practice on some mild steel vs the hardened stuff. I just turned .070 off the end of 4 bolts and it took out 1.5 carbide C6 cutters.




What if I do it reallllllly careful?  :lmao::lmao:

You are probably very correct, but it's all i have for now to destroy.
My wife's brother is supposed to bring me some alu and mild steel but he has ...uhhh.. different timelines or universal dimensions even than most people.
I have no idea on the grade of these big bolts...all I know they put in a bunch to connect tower sections. remember..I just lift the tower section and never touch the bolts))
Would there be a grade indication on bolts and if so, how to identify?
All I know they test the 'pulling' strength on them with like 4600 psi pressure in a hydraulic device. That's quite a bit.
Oh, and they are grey.:thinking:   :lmao::lmao::lmao:

John


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## GA Gyro (Dec 13, 2014)

johnwell said:


> John...lemme think...................yep, you really need it! Trust me!
> Especially you with the gyro...all the nice things you can make just for that!
> I'm jealous, cuz I've been looking at them, on and off, for a long  time and they seem awesome!
> (in my ...richer..days, I owned a Hiller 12D and had 8 hours on it)
> ...


Hey John,

First... you have a good name... 

Since you mentioned gyro's... they are a LOT of fun!  They fly mostly like a FW (fixed wing), however a few things are different, and a few things are opposite... so some flight training is mandatory to not 'get in trouble'.  
For the sheer fun of having the wind in your face in an open (stick frame) aircraft... they cannot be beat.  
And once one understands flying a gyro... they are a LOT less sensitive to shifting winds than a FW... other than one time... landing. 
As in most small aviation craft... landing is the most dangerous thing... it is in reality a controlled crash.  Gyro's, when they transition from the rotor carrying the weight>>to the wheels carrying the weight... are VERY sensitive to a quick gust of cross-wind. Careful and deliberate rotor management is the key.  
A cautious pilot who is paying attention can avoid this potential issue... most gyro accidents happen in this phase of flight (other than newbee pilots who get behind the power curve and fall out of the sky... OUCH...  ).

If you want to learn more about gyro's and flying... I can post a bunch of links.

Enjoy your new lathe... 

As to my choices for machinery... I am kinda a perfectionist... getting the Taiwanese machines was just 'one of those things'...


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## GA Gyro (Dec 13, 2014)

johnwell said:


> What if I do it reallllllly careful?  :lmao::lmao:
> 
> You are probably very correct, but it's all i have for now to destroy.
> My wife's brother is supposed to bring me some alu and mild steel but he has ...uhhh.. different timelines or universal dimensions even than most people.
> ...



IMO they are hardened... and will make a mess if you attempt a big (deep) cut.  
If you want to play with them: 
SLOW chuck speed,
Shallow cut,
Lots of lubricating oil (heavy oil, not WD40),
And fiddle. 
Might try an extra 5 or 10 thou's... and see how it goes.
You will develop a 'feel' for when the material is cutting properly... and when you are pushing things.

And read your chips. 
If the chips do not dis-color, you can CAREFULLY increase your cut a little
If the chips are amber to dark amber... be extra careful
If the chips are turning dark blue to black.... you are about to break something... so back off your DOC (depth of cut)

Remember.... the harder the metal... the slower you want to run your material FMS (feet per minute of cut speed... may have said that wrong).
This does not always apply... however for starters it is a good rule of thumb.

Next time you are on a job... ask the guys who assemble the tower what the 'Rockwell Hardness' number is, for the bolts.  If you have that... you can go to websites and get speeds and feeds and cut depths.

Now back to getting my mill set up.  Pics when I get done...  
So it 'DID' happen...


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## Rbeckett (Dec 13, 2014)

No reason to question your sanity on that purchase.  Sounds like a perfectly sane thing to do and eliminate all the intermediate stops along the way that we all end up makin.  Plus you did it cause you can and it was a good deal for both of you so what's to question really.  If you had gotten a 7X14 or a 9X19 I would have asked why you went so small on your steps up, but you just cut all the middle men out and jumped where you probably needed to be anyway.  It will be a much more powerful and rigid machine that will run super quiet as well as take real cuts not baby whiffs like you have to do on the venerable 7X's.  I have a 7X and a 9X20 so that's why I questioned that.  I wish I could have afforded to do it like you did, but being disabled on a pension makes those kinds of jumps impossible for me.  Enjoy the new tool and have fun getting to know your new machine.  

Bob


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## Rbeckett (Dec 13, 2014)

No reason to question your sanity on that purchase.  Sounds like a perfectly sane thing to do and eliminate all the intermediate stops along the way that we all end up makin.  Plus you did it cause you can and it was a good deal for both of you so what's to question really.  If you had gotten a 7X14 or a 9X19 I would have asked why you went so small on your steps up, but you just cut all the middle men out and jumped where you probably needed to be anyway.  It will be a much more powerful and rigid machine that will run super quiet as well as take real cuts not baby whiffs like you have to do on the venerable 7X's.  I have a 7X and a 9X20 so that's why I questioned that.  I wish I could have afforded to do it like you did, but being disabled on a pension makes those kinds of jumps impossible for me.  Enjoy the new tool and have fun getting to know your new machine.  

Bob


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## johnwell (Dec 13, 2014)

Rbeckett said:


> No reason to question your sanity on that purchase.  Sounds like a perfectly sane thing to do and eliminate all the intermediate stops along the way that we all end up makin.  Plus you did it cause you can and it was a good deal for both of you so what's to question really.  If you had gotten a 7X14 or a 9X19 I would have asked why you went so small on your steps up, but you just cut all the middle men out and jumped where you probably needed to be anyway.  It will be a much more powerful and rigid machine that will run super quiet as well as take real cuts not baby whiffs like you have to do on the venerable 7X's.  I have a 7X and a 9X20 so that's why I questioned that.  I wish I could have afforded to do it like you did, but being disabled on a pension makes those kinds of jumps impossible for me.  Enjoy the new tool and have fun getting to know your new machine.
> 
> Bob



Well Bob, you nailed it...exactly my thinking. On my 7X12 the slightest overpressure with a tool threw it off and I wasn't very happy with that. I had that little lathe for like 7 years doing nothing but I paid, if I remember correctly, only $100 or so for it..new in the box. Your guess is as good as mine which truck that thing fell off...)
Once using it I (re)fell in love with metal stuff and there it goes...it qualified as a hobby again...hehheh.
You are so right..I did consider all sorts of 'steps' to take, for quite a while and searched my butt off on craigslist and ebay for a long time, to no avail.
Since I got some time on my hands at the moment I decided the famous 'now or never' thing and simply called Matt at machinetools and asked if he had any used machines...in the back of my mind already thinking a big machine, but they are expensive quickly as size goes up...even in  small increments. Initially looking at a pm1236 I hoped for used around that size and guess what....For the same price for a 1236 with a dro Matt offered me the 1640....dro and all, shipped. What  would anybody do? The 1640 was not an educated choice but it took me about an hour to decide on that one and now it's sitting in my garage I don't regret it whatsoever!
About your pension and such...I see where you  come from, but don't think I'm rich or something.....But luckily for me I can work in my profession most of the year and be comfi.
Not that many would be interested but some may know where I come from too is that 'now or never' thing....I already had open heart surgery almost 6 years ago and your mortality gets rubbed  in in a nasty manner. Who knows how long I'm going to be around? Long story short...this was also a deciding factor. Not complaining here though cuz I'm not physically, kinda, hindered by it. I feel pretty good and still smoke like a retard! :nuts:
So much for my ....sanity....:lmao::lmao::lmao:

And I wasn't going to discuss it...geeeez

John


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## Chipper5783 (Dec 13, 2014)

Thank you for posting.  I deffinately have enjoyed hearing about your new machine.

I too bought "way to big a machine" - 15x60 Enterprise lathe - that was 32 years ago and I've been glad to have exactly that machine many times.  I can't count the number of times (in otherwords, some value larger than 21), the machine has been just large enough to do the job I'm trying to complete.

It also makes getting more metal (basically, you have started a tidal wave) much easier - anything smaller than the first real machine is "really not that big".  Everything else is just adding on.

Enjoy.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Dec 13, 2014)

Congrats on the new lathe, looks awesome! That pic of someone in the fall zone of the lathe on the lift gate was a bit scary though.

For scrap to play with, any machine shops or mechanics in the area? They often have a metal recycling bin full of scrap steel or drops. A case of beer will get you an awful lot of goodwill


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## GA Gyro (Dec 13, 2014)

Scrap metal...

Here are a few suggestions:
In my area, there are a couple of metal sellers.  They have scraps they sell by the #... price is good for project metal.
Also, there are a couple of metal recycling places... they buy metal by the #.  I suspect if one offered them a bit over what they buy it for... you could get some scraps.  
Then there is always the scrap bin at a welding shop, a machine shop, an auto repair shop, etc...
Scrap metal is not that hard to find... just need to start hunting for it.

John


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## johnwell (Dec 17, 2014)

Well, folks....
Almost time to make first (test) cut. All seems well, but I need to take care of some additional heating first...freezing my nuts off in the garage...sorta.
Let me put it this way...last night I licked the compound slide, and my wife had to bring hot coolant fluid (can't use just water) to get me loose....
I figured that it's more of a hobby and not a polar expedition so a wall has to be put up to make the "room" smaller and more manageable heating wise. I have baseboard heating all over the house and one 1500 watt isn't even putting a dent in the temp. Now I know that some of you may think..."it'll grow hair on yer chest"...but due to my age (I think) I became a comfort creature...)
So a wall and some reflective alu 'foil' (amazon) to 'lower' the 11 ft ceiling and it's a done deal.

ALSO!!! Listen carefully.....

As mentioned before I became an expert machinist by watching Youtube vids and low and behold...I remembered I had a lil video cam I bought years ago and found it! Not to scare the crap out of everybody, but I may post a video (or two) in the very near future on my PM1640. There is nothing out there on that specific one and it's about time.
Already have some footage in  fairly decent quality though not HD. Went and 'borrowed' an editing proggy and as soon as I can throw a Youtube video together it'll be on there.
I may even include that test cut if I do not embarrass the hell out of myself! :footinmouth: 
For those interested in my babblin and the 1640...stay tuned,

John


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## johnwell (Dec 19, 2014)

Alright...last post...

First off...think I'm gonna love the lathe.
Second...I guess I'm one of the few who's not too happy with who sold it to me. I fully realize that to them it's just another cheap machine, but to me it's actually a little more so I thought I was a (a tiny) customer.
Some say email to contact, some say call. Well..maybe I made the mistake of not calling for small stuff (but maybe bigger to me) like another machine (mill)...I tried email only.
Several, probably small things, made me loose interest in the whole shebang and I will stop posting/promoting PM stuff.
I do wish to thank all who congratulated me with my lathe and I'm still very happy with it.

Happy machining! )

John


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## wrmiller (Dec 19, 2014)

Ok, first off no one here is interested in mud-slinging just for it's own sake, but there is nothing wrong with explaining/describing one's issues with vendors. This can help all involved parties as no one's perfect. Even the best of companies. But I think expressing one's trials/tribulations with vendors DOES help our members make more informed decisions when they are trying to decide what and from whom to buy.

Just my $0.02


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## Stonebriar (Dec 19, 2014)

I bought two machines from them and calling definitely worked better. I think they might be a little computer challenged. I usually only got half of the email responses that were supposedly sent my way. Myself being in the computer business for decades, the issue wasn't on my end.


I learned calling was a much more reliable way to get what I needed. They always answered or returned the calls. I would buy from them again and probably will.

Rick


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## Dan_S (Dec 19, 2014)

johnwell said:


> I took my time, Dan and all went as planned and without any surprises.
> Cutting away 2 pallets is kind of a #$@%$ though.
> You live very close to me, I noticed....you happen to have a fireplace and need a bit of wood? )
> 
> John




lol, I don't need any firewood, I will have my own in a few more months, I ordered a mill. Not to mention My girlfriend has been keeping the fireplace busy with all the cardboard boxes that she gets from amazon.


As a side note it could have been worse, I got a bandsaw delivered 2 years ago, and it came on a metal pallet. It took for ever to break down......


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## coolidge (Dec 19, 2014)

The trick with email is knowing when to pick up the phone instead. Also I keep my raptor claws sheathed 99% of the time, being nice has overwhelmingly paid off in my favor. Its not always easy.


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## tmarks11 (Dec 19, 2014)

johnwell said:


> ...Some say email to contact, some say call.


Matt just about runs a one man show (he has some help, but it still mostly falls on him), and sometimes things gets dropped when your business is only one man deep.  Ray has stepped in to help out quite a bit in the past, but I haven't noticed him online as much recently.


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## qualitymachinetools (Dec 19, 2014)

Yeah I am curious what the problem here is too???? Got an email saying today nevermind about asking if we had a used PM-932M, and have no idea what you are talking about, except you replied back and said to check my email, but I did. I am really lost.

 I've been out in the shop trying to get machines out the door for people who are waiting, but still do not see any other emails. I'm so lost, please explain. 

 And I also did say today that if you needed something to call, I am not in front of a computer all day.


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## johnwell (Dec 19, 2014)

qualitymachinetools said:


> Yeah I am curious what the problem here is too???? Got an email saying today nevermind about asking if we had a used PM-932M, and have no idea what you are talking about, except you replied back and said to check my email, but I did. I am really lost.
> 
> I've been out in the shop trying to get machines out the door for people who are waiting, but still do not see any other emails. I'm so lost, please explain.
> 
> And I also did say today that if you needed something to call, I am not in front of a computer all day.



There is no problem (anymore).
Let's keep it that I am a difficult customer, but my tendency to email was actually out of respect that you, possibly, have more important stuff to do than answer not so important phone calls. My machine did not crash or caught on fire so I took the position that you can or may read my email(s) at your leisure. Simple form of courtesy on my part, I thought.
My mistake and I apologize for that. 

John


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## GA Gyro (Dec 21, 2014)

I hope this post comes across as a positive comment, as it is intended:

I run a small heating and AC company... I deal with, probably, around 475-500 different customers a year (mostly fall and spring checks).  Many of those customers, I may be speaking to the man or the lady in the house.  
Imagine being magically able to keep track of every one; their personal stuff, their details, their expectations, their quirks, their 'pet pieves', as well as the small handful that are actively trying to get something for nothing (that last category, if they push it too far, usually get told to find someone else... amounts to 3-4 a year).

The hectic pace of taking care of that many people... leaves a HUGE amount of room for errors.  Most of my customers understand we are all human... and they are not fussy; a few are.  

IMO, regardless if one is a seller or a buyer... they will ALWAYS catch more flies with sugar than vinegar.  Not that Matt or any supplier or any buyer of a machine or a hobby machinist (or anyone) is a fly... :rofl: rather just old fashioned common sense:  
BE NICE!  
Honestly... there are some days I want to strangle someone... however when I am nice to them (yet firm in a respectful way id they try to get something for nothing)... we usually get things worked out... even lawyers... :lmao:
One more thing:  As one that used to help moderate a heating and AC forum (that is, the political threads... just imagine anic: ) we had a saying:   When you feel like you are about to type something you may regret:  Either use the preview feature or push the keyboard away and do something else for a few hours (or a day).  The results down the road are more than worth it...  

Again, this post was meant in a positive way... please take it that way.  

Happy Holidays (Merry Christmas and a Happy-and prosperous-New Year) to all!


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## mgalusha (Dec 21, 2014)

Nice looking machine, looks a lot like it's little brother that I bought earlier in the year (1440-BV) but mo bigga, nice. Once mine was set in place I thought "glad I didn't get a bigger one", now I've only done a few jobs that have come close to the limit but I kind of wish I had gotten a larger machine. There is a pretty nice looking 20 x 60 WEBB machine on CL at the moment but I'm pretty sure I would be committed to the loony bin if that found it's way home, good thing I don't have the extra $$ laying around.  I think you made the right choice in going with a larger machine.


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## johnwell (Dec 23, 2014)

This was just my first 'feel' for the 1640 and thread for the first time on this machine. The machine: zero faults and soooo stable with it..effortless!
Which made me very happy, cuz I seriously struggled with my 7x12 to get anything even resembling a thread. I'll post this pic but it's very unfinished but this took about 4 minutes alltogether as opposed to evening after evening figuring the 7x12 out...
Checked change gears, set dials, lined up tool and went to town on a piece of aluminium..just for S and G.
Tool is 60 degrees but too much nose radius, but it did cut nice and above all...predictable, so no complaints there.
Also only fed compound, not deep enough either and no end dimension calculated, just threading!!! :lmao::lmao::lmao: 
I just stopped her cuz my reief wasn't deep enough either I must confess.
You know the feeling? )
My file is too rough for this too...hehheh

I just wanted to report that this machine definitely performs like a very, very real lathe.... 

John


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## Chipper5783 (Dec 23, 2014)

johnwell said:


> What if I do it reallllllly careful?  :lmao::lmao:
> 
> You are probably very correct, but it's all i have for now to destroy.
> My wife's brother is supposed to bring me some alu and mild steel but he has ...uhhh.. different timelines or universal dimensions even than most people.
> ...



Perhaps the grey is galvanize (zinc) coating.  Common in outdoor applications and structural steel work.

I also get plenty of surplus bolting (actually studs - the term "bolting" is sort of generic) from work - up to about 3".  There are a few different grades, the most common is "B7" - similar to CrMo 4140.  The bolting folks typically focus on the yield strength as they develop the bolting plan, then load the bolts to a certain percentage of that yield strength.  You can look up the relationship between YS and hardness (many charts on the internet).

It sounds like the bolting crew is using a hydraulic tensioning arrangment.  This is common in critical service bolting.  It provides a more uniform and predictable loading of the joint (torquing is influenced by so many factors that the actual tensile load on the bolt can vary significantly).

Anyway, enough said.  Go ahead and cut up those bolts.  Of course it is an interrupted cut, you should still get a reasonable life out of carbide (some of the grades available now are very tough) - I find it works fine.

Enjoy.


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## johnwell (Dec 23, 2014)

Chipper5783 said:


> Perhaps the grey is galvanize (zinc) coating.  Common in outdoor applications and structural steel work.
> 
> I also get plenty of surplus bolting (actually studs - the term "bolting" is sort of generic) from work - up to about 3".  There are a few different grades, the most common is "B7" - similar to CrMo 4140.  The bolting folks typically focus on the yield strength as they develop the bolting plan, then load the bolts to a certain percentage of that yield strength.  You can look up the relationship between YS and hardness (many charts on the internet).
> 
> ...


 
Thanks,Chipper! )
Nothing wrong by giving it a try!
Besides..i have a few halfway damaged 3/4 shank carbide brazed bits...who knows? )

John


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## johnwell (Mar 13, 2015)

Recently added a Grizzly G0762 to the powerbill....

And just finished up a remarkably cheap DRO to it! Cheap Igaging scales, but now with remote 3 axis display on a tablet (or phone)
All axis connect to display through bluetooth and it was fairly easy to achieve this! Works awesome...

John


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