# How to buy from QualityMachine



## joshua43214 (Jan 6, 2015)

Been a lurker here for quite a while.
Thank you all for so many quality posts and threads.

After much research and shopping, I have settled on buying a Precision Matthews lathe.
The problem is that I can't reach them to give them my money. I have been calling 3 or 4 times a day for two weeks (I sent email too), and I have just about reached my limit. I hate the idea of spending my money elsewhere, but I can at least reach them and give them money.

Any one know how to get ahold of Matt at http://www.machinetoolonline.com shy of driving 3 hours and knocking on the door?

I am open to alternatives if any one has suggestions,
I am in Ohio
swing 9" to 11"
centers 28" to 36"
must have reverse tumbler.
I prefer 120v single phase in the 500lb range, but I can accommodate 220v single phase in the 1000lb range.
Machine will be used for making fixtures, jigs, and hardware in my furniture making business, as well as small precise hobby stuff like Stirling engines and Rube Goldberg devices. Materials will range from plastics and brass to stainless and harder steels.

The used market around here seems to be nothing but clapped out machines from the rust belt. I would love a nice old American machine, but anything in decent shape goes for a major premium.

Thank you in advance
Josh


----------



## Plas62 (Jan 6, 2015)

Joshua - Try this email address ( admin@machinetoolonline.com). I was communicating with Matt a couple months ago on a Tech issue and was getting prompt replies using this address.


----------



## brav65 (Jan 6, 2015)

joshua43214 said:


> Been a lurker here for quite a while.
> Thank you all for so many quality posts and threads.
> 
> After much research and shopping, I have settled on buying a Precision Matthews lathe.
> ...




Hey Josh,

i am am not sure what the issue might be.  I called Matt the day after Christmass and he answered second ring.  I just e-mailed him tonight and got a reply in 15 minutes.  Reach out to Ray as I have never had an issue getting I touch with him.


----------



## Ebel440 (Jan 6, 2015)

Possible that they could be on vacation it was just x mas and new years.


----------



## Dan_S (Jan 6, 2015)

Contact Ray C, he is who I ordered my PM-940 from, he deals with a lot of the non industrial machine sales.

he is a member here
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/member.php/20756-Ray-C


You can contact him through his website.
http://www.cmf-llc.com/


----------



## wrmiller (Jan 6, 2015)

Dan_S said:


> Contact Ray C, he is who I ordered my PM-940 from, he deals with a lot of the non industrial machine sales.
> 
> he is a member here
> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/member.php/20756-Ray-C
> ...



+1 on contacting Ray. He is oftentimes much easier to reach that Matt. He is handling my purchase of my new 1340GT. )


----------



## joshua43214 (Jan 6, 2015)

Thanks to who ever moved this.

Thank you all for the quick replies. I have heard he can be hard to get ahold of, but this is seriously out of hand. I did speak with a nice lady there last week who took my number and promised to get Matt to call me, but I never heard back. If anyone else sold a machine comparable, I would have spent my money elsewhere already. It just really burns me when I try to give someone money, and they won't even answer the darn phone.

I will shoot a PM to Ray and see if that gets me anywhere.

-Josh


----------



## darkzero (Jan 7, 2015)

joshua43214 said:


> Thanks to who ever moved this.
> 
> Thank you all for the quick replies. I have heard he can be hard to get ahold of, but this is seriously out of hand. I did speak with a nice lady there last week who took my number and promised to get Matt to call me, but I never heard back. If anyone else sold a machine comparable, I would have spent my money elsewhere already. It just really burns me when I try to give someone money, and they won't even answer the darn phone.
> 
> ...



I moved it....

Don't let that discourage you. If that's a big issue for you, then that's unfortunate. I constantly hear people say they rather go somewhere else because "they won't take you phone call". I rather go to a mom & pop hardware store to get what I need cause they usually know what they're talking about rather than going to a big box hardware store & chances are getting someone who doesn't know or care.

You have to remember that QMT is not a big corporation like Grizzly with a CSR dept on hand ready to answer phone calls. Think of Matt & QMT as a B&M machine store, well more than that. Nicole usually answers the phone if Matt doesn't & whenever he's not available. Matt would be the one to answer any & all questions one might have about machines, not so much Nicole. Nicole is great but whenever she asks me if I want to leave a message, I don't bother. I just call back. I prefer the one on one experience. If I call back for something, I don't have to deal with going through a new CSR rep again, etc.

Yes I have had times where I couldn't get a hold of Matt the same day, no big deal, Matt has always treated me great & is why I buy from him. I've never not been able to get a hold of Matt for 2 weeks like you said calling multiple times a day. I try 3 times, couple of hrs after opening, after lunch, & before closing (their time). If I don't get a hold of him, then I try the next day. I almost always catch him on the second day if not the first day I call.


----------



## Ray C (Jan 7, 2015)

Hi All...

Be apprised that over the holidays, Matt & crew were out at times.  Some folks were taking vacation and at times, calls get transferred to cell phones but cell phones don't work well inside the metal-frame warehouse building.

I was out of town for a couple days and managed to drive 8 hours to home with a raging case of the flu.  -Fun...  Anyhow, I do respond to any/all requests.  It's not been possible for me to contribute here these days due to contractual obligations for some outside consulting work I've been involved in for the past several months...  I am however actively helping Matt and answering all kinds of emails (both general machining and tech support) that are sent directly to my email.  


Merry Christmas...  Happy New Year...

Ray


----------



## joshua43214 (Jan 7, 2015)

darkzero said:


> You have to remember that QMT is not a big corporation like Grizzly with a CSR dept on hand...



This is the only reason I am still in the market for a lathe. I went through a period like this about 30 years ago in my business. I got so busy, I actually moved a couch into my shop and worked around the clock taking only breaks for sleep and food. I finally raised my prices in 10% increments until I drove enough clients away to make my workload sane, and hired some help.

Sorry if some of my frustration leaked through.

Good news is that Ray responded instantly.
Thank you Ray and thank you all for guiding me in the right direction.

-Josh


----------



## zmotorsports (Jan 7, 2015)

Ray C said:


> Hi All...
> 
> Be apprised that over the holidays, Matt & crew were out at times. Some folks were taking vacation and at times, calls get transferred to cell phones but cell phones don't work well inside the metal-frame warehouse building.
> 
> ...



Good to see your still going at it Ray.  Haven't seen you on here in quite a while.  Miss your contribution to the forum.

As to the original poster, I used the following email address same as Plas62, admin@machinetoolonline.com, and never had an issue with Matt not responding.  Sometimes it may be a day or two but he ALWAYS responded.  When I called and left a message with Nicole he aslo ALWAY called back, no issues at all with him responding to calls or emails.

Good luck on your purchase, Matt seems to be a pretty stand up guy and I have been pleased with my purchases from him.


----------



## GA Gyro (Jan 7, 2015)

As a customer of QMT (Matt and Ray)... I thought I would comment:

Matt and Ray are customer service oriented... Unlike doing business with a HUGE corp, where one gets canned answers... Matt and Ray really try to take care of each of our needs.  
As far as I can tell... regardless of who one orders a machine tool from... it may be in stock, or it may be months before it arrives.  Just the way the market works.  Possibly, in the future, when the economy is running at a higher clip and prices are higher... this may change... 

IMO give them the benefit of the doubt... we as humans do all we can... yet details tend to slip through the cracks sometimes.

I suspect by next week (the week of Jan 12th)... folks will have gotten over the holidays (too much good food, vacations, the flu, ete) and schedules will be back on track.

I purchased a 935 mill, I was fortunate they had it in stock.  I accepted a TS model, rather than a TV model... because I did not want to wait months.  
I have a 1340GT somewhere between Taiwan and my home... the latest I understand it may be off the ship on the west coast... hoping...


----------



## mksj (Jan 7, 2015)

Although I ended up buying a 1340GT from QMT, they have missed out on at least 2 other machines that I purchased elsewhere because of lack of response or follow-up. I do understand it is a small operation, but like on the PM1340GT, I sent emails and phone message to both Matt and Ray on information on machines, and finally got a reply 3 weeks later. I already had ordered another machine but the purchased fell through, so I ended up with the 1340GT. No regrets with the machine, but I might have considered a different lathe machines had I known more about the other models. 

Regarding inventory and supply, seems to be an issue with many machine suppliers (including Grizzly), but they seem to have a better handle on approximate delivery most likely because of their larger volume. Rather than take a zillion calls on "when will my machine arrive", they should send out periodic emails to inform waiting lists clients on potential ETA's, on the boat, when the machines are in the shop and when they are shipped to you. I received my "shipping tracking information" after the machined was delivered.

I also would have liked to know more about other tooling stocked and other options, as I would have purchased the Bison  set-tru chuck over the stock chuck, and whole lot more if I new what was available. I would like to see more option packages available with machines. I would much rather purchase everything from a single supplier, the piecemeal from multiple vendors. Part of this is my fault, as I really did not know all the other tooling that I would need until later.

They would benefit from a simple periodic news letter/emails on new items and specials which would boost post machine sales, or inform potential clients of available vendors/items. They could increase sales and customer satisfaction, if they had a more consistent front end management. Sorry about venting, but the buyer experience should be improved.


----------



## Dan_S (Jan 7, 2015)

mksj said:


> I also would have liked to know more about other tooling stocked and other options, as I would have purchased the Bison  set-tru chuck over the stock chuck, and whole lot more if I new what was available. I would like to see more option packages available with machines. I would much rather purchase everything from a single supplier, the piecemeal from multiple vendors. Part of this is my fault, as I really did not know all the other tooling that I would need until later.
> 
> They would benefit from a simple periodic news letter/emails on new items and specials which would boost post machine sales, or inform potential clients of available vendors/items. They could increase sales and customer satisfaction, if they had a more consistent front end management. Sorry about venting, but the buyer experience should be improved.



I think the Issue is Matt isn't big enough yet, to generate the revenue needed to pay for all those features. For example To create a website that has all his products listed and nicely categorized isn't cheap. I'm a full stack web developer (think of it as a master machinist), and even if I took something like WordPress, and configured it to provide basically functionality, would cost  $2-3K.  If you start adding in features like  keeping track of inventory, bundling, shipping costs, & newsletters, the cost grows almost exponentially. You get into features requiring other features, that in turn require other features. For example. 

For example a newsletter sounds like a simple system, but they have legal requirements now. You need to have a unsubscribe link in each email so you don't get sued. That requires a system that has security built into it, so people cant fill up your database with bogus email addresses, or unsubscribe people who actually wan't to be subscribed. If you start send emails to a lot of people, you have to start staging stuff, or providers will black list your ip addresses. Google for example doesn't like it when you send and email to a few thousand of their users at once.


----------



## GA Gyro (Jan 7, 2015)

And sadly... When (and I believe it will happen) Matt gets large enough to afford all that stuff...
The cost of the PM machines will be considerably more than they are now....
AND
IMO customer service will not be what it is today.

Lots of folks have had an issue... and Matt just sent them a part.  
Imagine when Matt is large enough... that would require a claim against the factory or freight co and months of processing time... before you got your part.

We cannot have it both ways... IMO a little patience with Matt and Ray is probably the better deal.

OR... buy from a BIG place... and get treated like you were at HD... which for me, is not an option.


----------



## wrmiller (Jan 7, 2015)

GA said:


> And sadly... When (and I believe it will happen) Matt gets large enough to afford all that stuff...
> The cost of the PM machines will be considerably more than they are now....
> AND
> IMO customer service will not be what it is today.
> ...



This scenario isn't binary as you allude. If Matt were to get big enough to better support pre and post sales, it doesn't automatically follow that your description of events will unfold.

For example, I buy from Griz all the time and on the few times I have had issues they have always responded promptly, which goes 180 out from your presented logic.

Not picking on you John, we're all entitled to our opinions (and we all know what opinions are worth...  ) I'm just providing counterpoint.


----------



## Dan_S (Jan 7, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> This scenario isn't binary as you allude. If Matt were to get big enough to better support pre and post sales, it doesn't automatically follow that your description of events will unfold.
> 
> For example, I buy from Griz all the time and on the few times I have had issues they have always responded promptly, which goes 180 out from your presented logic.



That's because they have a dedicated customer service department. it's all a trade off though, because while they have prices roughly equivalent to PM, I would say based on personal experience the quality/fit & finish of their equivalent machines is not on par with some of their competitors (woodworking & metalworking).

I was in the Muncy Pa store between Christmas and New Years, and  They had more customer service representatives wondering around that one store than Matt has in his entire company.


----------



## GA Gyro (Jan 7, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> This scenario isn't binary as you allude. If Matt were to get big enough to better support pre and post sales, it doesn't automatically follow that your description of events will unfold.
> 
> For example, I buy from Griz all the time and on the few times I have had issues they have always responded promptly, which goes 180 out from your presented logic.
> 
> Not picking on you John, we're all entitled to our opinions (and we all know what opinions are worth...  ) I'm just providing counterpoint.



Counter-points are good... we all get tunnel vision now and then.  
Depends on how we perceive circumstances at the point in time... anic:  or :ups:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I just received an Email from Matt... My lathe is part of the group that is coming in January... There is another group of 1340GT's coming in March (we will see if the factor ships them on time). 
To know my lathe is in the January group... is a relief.  
If it gets to me by the end of the month (January)... that works for me.
Matt/NIcole:  If you are reading this... earlier is better... :winner:

BTW: I DO have lathe work I could be doing now... part of it is hobby gyro work, part of it is for profit work...
Hope I can stall the customer... otherwise I may join the fussers...

Patience... not something us guys do well.... :lmao:


----------



## Dan_S (Jan 7, 2015)

GA said:


> Counter-points are good... we all get tunnel vision now and then.
> Depends on how we perceive circumstances at the point in time... anic:  or :ups:
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:



This is a good point, but and brings up another good point/senario. 

Matt could get the shipment in, start poping the lids of crates to give the machines a once over. After some inspection he decides half the shipment isn't up to snuff because of the something the manufacture, shipper, or other person in the chain did. The next day you get an email saying your delivery date is now pushed back to March or April. This is the scenario where I see a lot of people go anic:


For me I won't be doing this, :thanks: until my machine is set up and running in my shop. The delivery chain has a lot of links, and anyone of them can lead to an un-happy customer.


----------



## GA Gyro (Jan 7, 2015)

Dan_S said:


> That's because they have a dedicated customer service department. it's all a trade off though, because while they have prices roughly equivalent to PM, I would say based on personal experience the quality/fit & finish of their equivalent machines is not on par with some of their competitors (woodworking & metalworking).
> 
> I was in the Muncy Pa store between Christmas and New Years, and  They had more customer service representatives wondering around that one store than Matt has in his entire company.



Ever notice when you go to HD or Lowes or Walmart...

Customer service is cut and dried... no personal attention... just policy. 
Most of the time, policy is acceptable... sometimes it is not.

Each of us has our preferences...
However:

I would rather deal with a small shop, who cares...
Than a large shop that operates on 'policy'... and get caught in the middle.


----------



## joshua43214 (Jan 7, 2015)

GA said:


> And sadly... When (and I believe it will happen) Matt gets large enough to afford all that stuff...
> The cost of the PM machines will be considerably more than they are now....
> AND
> IMO customer service will not be what it is today.
> ...



I have to disagree with this.

During my second career as a Euro Car tech, I worked in what was arguably the best shop in town for 7 years. The owner ran both the office and the shop. We had a back log of ~4 weeks for appointments when we where slow and up 12 weeks when busy. At any given time, we had about 60 cars on the lot waiting for service from 2 techs + the owner. We each had to track down parts, work up estimates, call customers for approval, and then do the job.
We took extremely good care of our customers to the point where we would eat jobs on come-backs that had nothing to do with our work. Our customer base was so loyal they would put up with not being able to reach us on the phone, not being able to schedule work for weeks at a time, and knowing that when they dropped off their car it might be weeks before we got around to it.

Hopefully this sounds a bit familiar...

The reason for all this was that the operation was inherently dis-organized. 100% of the problem was caused by the owner trying to do both of these jobs at the same time. He was always talking about hiring a full time office manager, but hated the idea of paying someone for "non-productive" work.

I finally got fed up with it after 7 years and moved on. Two months later the other tech moved on. The owner (who I am still very friendly with) finally broke down and hired a tech with a back injury to run the office, and later a part time bookkeeper.
People still get the same amazing service, they still get to speak directly to a knowledgeable person on the phone, customers never have to wait more than two weeks for an appointment, and calls are returned promptly. The techs get to focus on their primary job because the finding parts, estimates, and sales are handled by the office. To make things even better, the owner lost 50 pounds, his ulcers went away, and he is making more money than before. That single well-chosen non-productive person was all it took to fix the entire organization.

In another specialty shop I worked in, it took a full time office manager, the owner and a shop foreman to keep myself and another tech working all day with no down time, while the shop foreman did misc small jobs as needed.

Bigger does not mean worse. Very often bigger means far better for customers, employees, and profits. Yes, you can have it both ways. Pittsburg probably has an excess of machinists who could answer questions and handle sales, someone like Ray for example 

My own experience with trying to run an office and work the shop tell me that being interrupted while working reduces quality, and not taking calls eliminates sales. My solution was to limit customers by raising prices, hiring a person in the shop and a part time bookkeeper. I provided better quality, better service, made more money, and got more sleep.


----------



## chhedausa (Jan 7, 2015)

I must be very lucky when I contact QMT.  Every time I have called, someone has picked up and I have been taken care of very well.

As a specialty business owner/operator myself, I have found there is only so much time in the day/week and all of the knowledge and operations are dependent on me.  I think Matt is in the same predicament.  That is why I will always be patient with specialty business owner/operators.  They usually take care of the customer better than a larger company even though the response time may be longer.  And their expertise in the products is usually much better than the larger outfits.  And, Yes, additional knowledgeable staff will make the business operate much more smoothly and efficiently.  Hopefully Matt is in the process of getting it implemented as I am with my business.  Sometimes it is hard to let go and let someone else do things, and it is very difficult to find staff that will perform very well all the time.

Josh,

I just got in the 12 x 36 and I am also in Columbus, Ohio.  If you would like to check it out, please pm me with your number.


----------



## Ray C (Jan 7, 2015)

Holy smokes...  I go away for about a year and this topic is still hot & heavy )...

OK here's a quick summary before things get out of control:  here is a 'day in the life of' 

QMT deals with the same handful of factories (except 1 new one) for the last 12-15 years.  They make the machines to Matt's spec along with a handful of customizations from the base offering.  They can only make so many per year.  Matt doesn't deal with the other companies who make the same/similar pattern machine because QC would go out the window.

Ocean transport shipping is very expensive.  To get the best prices, at least 2-3 full-size cargo containers are needed.

Matt tries to arrange deliveries across the 4-5 factories so they arrive roughly quarterly.  Factory delays happen from time to time and so do delays in shipping.  Sometimes, two quarterly shipments arrive at the same time.  Worse yet, sometimes three quarterly shipments arrive.

Matt has a crew of 3 regular people and a couple regular part-timers.  When machines arrive, they are checked and any customizations are done as needed.  There is no helter-skelter going on at Matt's place.  Does it get busy at times?  Yes.  It's a well run operation though.  Can things get hectic when arranging industrial freight?  Yes.  It's a problem with the shippers -not Matt's warehouse.  When pickups aren't made as scheduled, the machines get moved to trailer cars if needed...

The landed margins on the machines are much lower than you would expect because everyone compares prices to the other big-name dealers who can afford to buy the generic version machines at reduced wholesale prices.  QMT's prices have to be kept in-line with the competitors.

It would be very hard to hire more full-time people because the shipments arrive at sometimes unpredictable times (feast or famine kinda thing).  The money to pay people has to come from somewhere...

Matt refuses to buckle-in to the "big-buck, high-profit-margin" segment of the business.  He's a machinist by trade.  Prefers quality over quantity.

I do whatever I can to help by placing orders and helping folks make the right decisions. It offloads a lot of work from Matt.  I try to be prompt and so does Matt and he does all he can to accommodate his clients.  The vast majority of folks get taken care of but every now and then, someone has a problem.  Sadly, sometimes those problems arise to nasty statements on Internet forums and unfortunately, bad news usually travels faster and further than good news -it is not an accurate representation of the vast majority of transactions.   I will also say this... there are two sides to every story.  -Nuf said.

As for me...  I'm very busy these days doing a couple different things.  I felt my life was beginning to evolve around web forums -so I fixed that.  As much as I'd like, I cannot spend as much time here sharing technical information as I'd like to.   Matt often sends his clients to me when he's overloaded with his warehouse issues and sometimes folks contact me directly. He would prefer if everyone contacted me but, it just doesn't happen that way.  Either way, it's the same deal at the same price...

OK... that's it. 

--- was just informed the washing machine is leaking.  Looks like I gotta deal with that right now...

Ray


----------



## wrmiller (Jan 7, 2015)

Hey Ray,

Glad to see ya back dude.


----------



## Ray C (Jan 7, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Hey Ray,
> 
> Glad to see ya back dude.



Thanks...  I do try to check in once in a while but that's been very hard to do lately.

It's nice to see the forum doing well.  I knew it was on a good path and the guys are doing a great job.


Ray


----------



## bartives (Mar 22, 2015)

It has been a while since I contacted Matt but he always responded.


----------



## Dan_S (Mar 31, 2015)

Hay anyone heard from Ray Lately? 

I've been trying to reach him to get an update about when my mill might arrive, and i haven't been able to reach him via phone or e-mail.


----------



## wrmiller (Mar 31, 2015)

No. Haven't talked to Ray since mid Jan? It's been a while.


----------



## GA Gyro (Mar 31, 2015)

I received an Email from him a week or so ago...

Ray has some new responsibilities that are taking a lot of his time.

Be patient... and contact him via Email... might follow up every so often...until you get a reply.


----------



## Dan_S (Mar 31, 2015)

I'll try and call him again tomorrow, and if I can't reach him, I'll try email again.


----------

