# Starrett Spindle Square 649-5 - Photo Review



## coolidge (Aug 15, 2015)

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


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## ch2co (Aug 15, 2015)

I love Starrett tools.  Class all the way. OK there might be a few dogs out there.
Are you thinking of loaning it out? ;^)

Chuck the grumpy old guy


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## coolidge (Aug 15, 2015)

Chuck yes I will loan this out...when the rest of my tools I loaned out return.


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## ch2co (Aug 15, 2015)

But I gave 'em back last week!!! 

But on a more serious note, I know of many a tool that used to reside in my domicile that are out there amongst the hidden heathens, nary to be seen again.
But then just last month, I found a whole set of combination wrenches that I never bought or was given (willingly). Probably from 15 -20  years ago. They
are marked with a purplish paint that should identify the original owner, but darn if I can remember who. 

Chuck the grumpy old guy


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## T Bredehoft (Aug 15, 2015)

I guess I'm cheap, for $200 I can sweep a lot of table.  Instead of bumping into the T slots, I use two .050 Jo blocks, one at either end of the sweep.  I position the indicator abut eight inches from the spindle, this gives me 16 inches of sweep, not four, it's at least four times more accurate (no, not accurate), meaningful. When I get it within .0005 in 16 inches, that surely seems closer to square than .0001 within 4


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## sgisler (Aug 15, 2015)

Nice Coolidge! 
I have an Edge and like it. It has a quality feel. Granted it does use cheaper indicators and I have no idea of its country of origin. It seems to work well, but now you have me wondering. I'll have to think if a way to verify it!  calibrating is no big deal,  it comes with a little magnet about 1/4" tall. With the square in the spindle, you zero one indicator with its tip perched on the magnet, then swing the other indicator around and do the same. 

I had wondered how the Starrett is calibrated. But looking at the ground base in your pix, I guess you set it down on a surface plate and zero both indicators?


Stan,
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Contract_Pilot (Sep 5, 2015)

I see the price on the AMT and Starrett are about the same now! 

It does Look like my $80.00 E-bay few years back AMT Spindle Square but with starrett indicators.


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## coolidge (Sep 5, 2015)

Contract Pilot - even the cases look the same AMT and Starrett.

Stan - I felt for only $65 more I got a lot more with the Starrett vs the Edge.

Tom - Due to my day job my time in the shop is limited so anything that saves me time is a plus.


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## Frank Ford (Sep 9, 2015)

Interesting that the AMT and Starrett units both carry the same patent by Navarro (AMT) and look identical with the exception of the CNC engraving and the indicators.  My AMT is steel, too, by the way.   Reckon they're made in the same shop?


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## aliva (Sep 9, 2015)

I made this one from 1 inch aluminum square stock and a 3/4 SS rode. Works very well, I confirmed it by sweeping the mill table with a DTI


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## astjp2 (Sep 12, 2015)

I bought a couple of SPI's for work, they are OK for knee and bed mills but not so well for a Mazak or Okuma.  Tim


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## chips&more (Sep 12, 2015)

Sorry guys, but I don’t see all the fuss in this tramming thingamajig . To me, it’s just another toy, expensive one at that. I just use one indicator and sweep the table a few times and it’s done. And I do not have a problem with the slots. If you do, maybe try a large parallel ring, like a salvaged bearing race to avoid the slots. And when using only one indicator, no calibration is necessary...Dave


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## JimDawson (Sep 12, 2015)

chips&more said:


> Sorry guys, but I don’t see all the fuss in this tramming thingamajig . To me, it’s just another toy, expensive one at that. I just use one indicator and sweep the table a few times and it’s done. And I do not have a problem with the slots. If you do, maybe try a large parallel ring, like a salvaged bearing race to avoid the slots. And when using only one indicator, no calibration is necessary...Dave


:+1:


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## astjp2 (Sep 13, 2015)

Its about speed and ease of use for some with this tool, if you are just verifying a head is parallel with the table, chuck up the tool, touch off and see where you are at.  No math or fuss that some may find difficult with a standard indicator.  Tim


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## sd624 (Sep 13, 2015)

chips&more said:


> Sorry guys, but I don’t see all the fuss in this tramming thingamajig . To me, it’s just another toy, expensive one at that. I just use one indicator and sweep the table a few times and it’s done. And I do not have a problem with the slots. If you do, maybe try a large parallel ring, like a salvaged bearing race to avoid the slots. And when using only one indicator, no calibration is necessary...Dave



Yup I thought the same thing until I received one as a gift a few years ago. Even had it for a while before I decided to use it. Will never go back to sweeping with a single indicator. It really is faster and easier.


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## coolidge (Sep 13, 2015)

I tram my head with two pebbles I found in my driveway and a gum wrapper I don't know why you guys waste money on precision tools.


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## sgisler (Sep 13, 2015)

I don't care who ya are, that's funny


Stan,
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## coolidge (Sep 13, 2015)

I have to admit the negative post above bothered me. It basically said if you buy a Starrett spindle square like Charles did you are an idiot. Its the kind of negative post I see on a lot of forums that I do NOT post on anymore.


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## astjp2 (Sep 13, 2015)

coolidge said:


> I have to admit the negative post above bothered me. It basically said if you buy a Starrett spindle square like Charles did you are an idiot. Its the kind of negative post I see on a lot of forums that I do NOT post on anymore.


Which post are you referring to ?


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## dave2176 (Sep 13, 2015)

I made one like aliva did. Works quite well. I zero the two indicators, rotate 180 and check the difference then adjust if needed. Love the Starrett tools but for now the price is a bit high for me. Maybe someday.

Would love to see the video on the two pebbles and gum wrapper if you can throw one up. 

Dave


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## Rex Walters (Oct 4, 2015)

I'm late to the thread, but I also built a spindle square a while back on a whim. While it was never _that _much of an ordeal single-point sweeping to tram, simultaneously seeing two points is sufficiently better that I'll never go back. It's especially helpful when tramming in the "nod" axis where adjustments are particularly non-linear (and in my case requires shims to adjust).

With two points you adjust until both dials read the same. With single point tramming you can't just zero and halve the error because of cosine effects. With a DTI on a bar, you have to iteratively zero/sweep/bump back and forth, incrementally approaching tram. With two points there is no sweeping or thinking involved: just loosen the nuts and bump the head until both dials read the same.

It's possible that I'm more incompetent than most (some days more than others) but I'll admit that I tend to bump the head in the wrong direction about half the time. No big deal with two-point tramming — you knock the head around in both directions until the dials read the same. 

With single point tramming this caused a lot more mental friction since the indicator moves differently on each side of the spindle due to "bilateral ambiguity." The real mental gymnastics were when I swept to the back side and was reading the dial through a mirror. Which side of the head do I bump to move the needle toward zero? Whoops, wrong way, bump it back. Far enough? Too far? Dunno, sweep to the other side and check. Whoops, too far, now which way do I bump? I got better with practice, but even after I got pretty good at it I didn't exactly relish the task.

Anyone who thinks that a spindle square is a foolish extravagance has simply never used one. I built mine out of scrap and a couple cheap indicators rather than buying a commercial unit, but I certainly don't begrudge anyone who spent the money. Great tool.
-- 
Rex


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## The Liberal Arts Garage (Mar 14, 2017)

coolidge said:


> I tram my head with two pebbles I found in my driveway and a gum wrapper I don't know why you guys waste money on precision tools.


.    NO , I did not suggest this; with apology........
....BLJHB.


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## pstemari (Apr 15, 2017)

Rex Walters said:


> .... since the indicator moves differently on each side of the spindle due to "bilateral ambiguity." The real mental gymnastics were when I swept to the back side and was reading the dial through a mirror. ...



The one nice thing on the Last Work DTI missing from the Interapids is the two-color dial. Lots easier to deal with the mirror when plus & minus have a color difference.


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## Rex Walters (Apr 15, 2017)

pstemari said:


> Lots easier to deal with the mirror when plus & minus have a color difference.



This is an excellent feature that none of the dial indicators I own appear to have. Yet.

If I can get the dial cover off of any of mine, I might apply a dot of my wife's nail polish to accomplish something similar. Thanks for the idea!


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