# My Workman (G0602), my way



## fitterman1

This is my experience with what in Australia is called a Workman 250 x 550 lathe. It is exactly the same as what is also known as a G0602 as supplied by Grizzly in the US and comes under other names in different parts of the world.
Gday viewers my name is fitterman1 and I live in Australia down the bottom just off the middle.
I'm a mechanical fitter by trade and I bought one of these lathes a couple of years ago to plonk in the shed to make things for myself and others.
Since I bought it I've spent all this time on and off ripping it to bits and going over those same bits to come up with a machine that has some form of precision and repeat-ability in its function as well as a much improved feel in the way it is manipulated.
This write-up is going to take ages to complete because I still have to work out how to upload pictures. I'm also going to go about it in a haphazard order because that's how it happened.
So the story starts 2 yrs ago when this fella I know was shutting down shop.
He is a boilermaker and bought the lathe to bevel the edges of tubing and small od pipework prior to welding a butt joint.
That's all he used it for, and in the 6mths he owned it he reckons it did about 12hrs of work.
Anyway I took it off his hands for a bargain basement price of AU$500, they retail at $1250 on flea-bay by a local. Not a bad price if I say so myself.
On the way home I popped into a local tool vendors shop and also bought an engine lifting crane. I had to get it off somehow and the missus wasn't going to bend over backwards to help that's for sure.
Got it off and into the shed and set it up on its stand.
And looked at it. It was so low it could only be suitable for a person a meter tall to use. Talk about ergonomics. I prefer my chuck to be at chest height so I'm not stooped over.
I left it there and went inside and started to devise a stand in my head over the next few days which I fabricated at work in my own time using scraps from left over jobs.
The stand was made from 3" square tube with 1/8" wall thickness and was 1250mm long x 400mm wide with a height of 900mm. On top of that I fitted two pads which corresponded to the two end bases of the lathe. these were welded to the structure and machined flat and level in relation to each other. I can't show actual construction photos as they're nonexistent but here's the headstock end.
Worked out how to add pix.




and the tailstock end. This frame I made parallel and square in every dimension to within one millimeter.
You can see the pad that the lathes weight sits on in the center of the top beam. Even though both pads were machined I scraped them flat as well. There is a 010" gasket between the pad and the stainless steel swarf tray I made. The top beam was designed to be pulled one way or another by the bolts in case there was twist in the bed. Thankfully this bed was free of twist so these bolts are under minimum tension.




This is how the frame is attached to the floor. 16mm studs grouted in at all four corners with Hilti stud grout and enough sticking out so that the pads where the lathe will sit can be leveled. The corners of the frame were reinforced with pads of their own to stiffen up the tube and spread any load more efficiently. The concrete is 6" thick here so no drama with load bearing.



to be continued


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## AIrlineRefueler

Welcome I am a newbie to using a lathe same as yours g0602 and just gathering things to start. I must say you guys have the most beautiful country I have seen. Back in 2004 I was able to spend a month down in Denmark and drive and camp all the way up the coast to Perth. I still have friends in Denmark. Two places I consider heaven now there and here in Alaska where I have spent most of my life. Aaron


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## fitterman1

Hi AirlineRefueler, they're both beautiful places aren't they? I live in Adelaide at the bottom of a massive desert. It's green here but 500kms north and further you need to be on your toes to survive - very little water around.
I hope you like your lathe I find mine is very accurate because I've spent quite a bit of time hacking it. Some of what I've done you won't have to but at the end of the day the more you get a feel for it the more you will want to improve it as you find its minor faults.
cheers Alby


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## fitterman1

The next change I made was getting rid of the factory swarf tray which was only 10mm deep and was undersized in comparison to the frame dimensions which made it look odd. So at the workshop I grabbed a sheet of 1.6mm stainless and cut folded and welded a new one which was 25mm deep. The edges were turned up at 45 degrees and tigged shut. This covered the same area of the frame and looked better than the old painted one.It also catches swarf that dribbles out the spindle I've since found out.




Then the lathe was loaded on and bolted to the frame. The frame had been fitted with m12 studs drilled and tapped into the pads previously. The headstock stud was cranked to 40Nm and the tailstock one to about 5Nm to allow the tailstock end to slide when influenced by thermal expansion. We have large fluctuations in daytime temperature here so I thought this is the best way to control that. As long as its clamped down slightly no issues will arise.
A machinists level was placed on the ways and the frame was gently adjusted for level in both directions and then the base studs were locked up and level checked.
Next thing on the list was to check the spindle bearings, just by rotating the chuck by hand I could tell they didn't feel right, there was a gritty feel to them. So off came the chuck and then I noticed the thread didn't seem too flash either.
So out comes the clock (dial indicator) and I check the register which was spot on although by eye I could see the threadform was not concentric with the register. It seemed to be eccentric to about 1mm.
I gutted the headstock. Spindle out, wiring out, bearing shells out, everything off or out. The bearings I found had casting sand floating about, it was stuck to the spindle exterior where there was grease, on the housing interior, everywhere. It was not a clean housing. The spindle I took to work and remachined the same thread, going deeper until it was complete and concentric. Then I made a protective nut to suit out of scrap aluminium. It looks like this.




Then I made a duplicate spindle thread, it looks like this out of bronze.




The nut protects the spindle thread when I use a collet chuck. I use ER40 collets. The duplicate spindle thread is now my template for all backing plates to be made to in the future. Their fits are near perfect, only on the hottest days can you feel any backlash between the two. Instead of 1.750" x 8 tpi, my lathe spindle thread is now 1.694" x 8 tpi a difference of 028" on radius, that is a massive error from the factory.
The headstock housing was taken to an abrasive blaster and he was instructed to blast the daylights out of the interior only. Thereafter I took it home and gave it multiple coats of epoxy paint to seal the surface.
The bearing shell seats were cleaned and the grease galleries cleaned and flushed out, then I set about scraping the base that sits on the bed.




I scraped the entire base flat even though the only contact points are two strips where you can see the bolt holes, good for practice. See the non contact point in the center area above, there is no stress relieving in china, its pour, fettle, machine. It relieves itself afterwards. Without having a flat base that is parallel to the spindle axis, when you tighten down  your nuts they will twist the housing.




to be continued


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## hman

Wow!  It really sounds like you're doing a great job turning a sow's ear into a silk purse.  All that sand in the headstock must have been quite a shock to find.  Beautiful looking work on the threads.  And I especially like your design for the top beam at the tailstock end.  Absolutely ingenious!!!  I'll have to keep this one in my bag of tricks.

Can't wait to read more of your story ... and welcome to the forum!


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## fitterman1

Hi hman, and thanks for the welcome, yes the sand was a worry but knowing there was cheap chinese brgs on the spindle didn't faze me, they ended up in the recycle bin and new FAG ones ordered. I've done a fair bit on the lathe in the last 2 yrs mostly in between jobs home and away, I'm just gonna catalogue it for everyone elses benefit. As a fitter I know what its like to walk upto a machinetool, check it over, lube it up, use it, clean it, walk away.
The machine should be set up and operable from the get go you know, the best manufacturers of top quality machinetools and your shop boss would expect you to maintain this ethic. I became a fitter to experience a lot more than standing in front of a machinetool for the rest of my life. I have a lot of respect for the guys that have done this, as an apprentice I was taught by a lot of old fellas and they have a lot of tricks up their sleeves. Collectively they've passed this stuff on to people like me and you. I like pulling things to bits and fixing them so it was natural for me to get a lathe and do the same as anyone else on these forums, help others and share methodology.
cheers Alby


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## fitterman1

When I pulled my spindle out of the headstock housing I used a bearing puller to pull a) the outboard brg first then b) the chuck end brg second. What I found was there was too much interference on the outboard brg because this one is meant to slide with friction to allow the correct adjustment of bearing clearance. I took my spindle to work and chucked it. Then I polished with wd40 and wet and dry until I could force the bearing on by hand. Notice I said "by force", I didn't want it loose but still a tight hand fit. I also measured the chuck end and found that a little too high in interference so I took a thou off that end also. Still needed to be pressed on by tools but a lot better and smoother sliding motion. I replaced the original chinee brgs with FAG units on order from Germany. These were assembled to the spindle using some oil as lube for when pressing, this prevents any pickup or galling from happening. They were packed about 2/3rds full of a teflon based hjgh temp bearing grease and assembled to my headstock after it had another thorough cleaning with contact cleaner. Everything was spotlessly clean upon assembly. At this stage my headstock was nipped but not aligned. My headstock anchors were studs which were replaced with better quality and loctited in place and tensioned using a nut and washer to pull them upwards while they set. This way there was metal to metal thread contact rather than a layer of loctite to crush. The original washers were thrown away and new ones fabricated which were 4mm thick and as big as possible to fit in their location. The idea here was to spread the clamping load as wide as possible across the base of the housing onto the beds so no motion would occur in future after initial setup.
Next was the spindle adjustment. I used a clock on the end of the spindle and gently pulled up the first locknut till I had no motion. Then i spun the spindle to work the grease around and line up the taper rollers so they sat. Then I locked up the spindle with a pin spanner and tightened the first lockring more so I could feel tension in the bearings and then backed off the lockring and reseated it by hand. This last action should have properly seated the shells and rollers in their resting spots. I then spun the spindle to see how it felt, there was slight friction so I left it at that. Next was to perform a temporary alignment to the ways using said clock and a collet chuck was attached with 8" of 1" diameter ground bar. I set the clock
at 3 o'clock on the back of the bar gave it some preload and zeroed it. I spun the spindle to check runout, it came to about 0.0003". I spun it around back to the zero point and traversed the bed with the saddle to the end of the bar. It read close to 080" so I continued by adjusting with the rear adjusting grubscrews and traversing back and forwards until I matched my zero point. Tension on my studs was only a few Nm and I was also using a rawhide hammer to knock it around. I left it like this for a few days cause we had some long days at work.

Update - Have since completed my "temporary" alignment to within 001" over 8" of bar. I still feel I can get better than this. I'm going to do it again once the drive train is properly settled  and I've machined numerous items and stressed it out. I'm interested to see how it copes or performs with indexable tooling, I'll also check it again at some  time in the distant future as a comparison to identify if anything is moving or if its happy to stay as it is. The tailstock has been completely left out of the equation because after I scraped the headstock I found by clocking the tailstock quill that it was 005" high. I completely forgot to measure this for any errors prior to starting. It could mean I've taken a hell of a lot of meat off the headstock (possible) or the tailstock was originally slightly high anyway (also possible).

tbc


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## fitterman1

I remember leaving the lathe in that state and decided to focus on power and control. I had gutted all my wiring and thrown it in the copper bin as I'd made a decision to go variable speed, so I chased down an electric treadmill that still functioned and for $5o was allowed to take it home. I pulled it to bits and kept the dc motor (2.75hp but more than likely 1.5hp), control panel and necessary cabling. At this point I started to educate myself on the finer points of variable speed dc motors and came to the conclusion that the existing controller for the motor was not going to be flexible enough for my needs. I wanted to be able to start at any speed I wanted and be able to vary it. I wanted to be able to run it in reverse as well as forward. I wanted it to stop within a second or two. I wanted an e-stop. These things I couldn't have with the existing controller so I hunted the net until I found the K**M 225D. What a champion piece of electronics. Absolutely perfectly matched for my little motor. AC in DC out, 0-180 volts, good for 3 horsepower, all sorts of adjustable parameters on the board, reasonably priced and all I had to do was get it from the US to me. I immediately ordered one and then went and picked the brains of every sparky I knew to knock out the best circuit to build. Then the ensuing shopping spree that inevitably follows occurred. Over the next few months I built a control panel that sat under the swarf tray inside the frame and incorporated an external 12vdc power supply for lighting and fans also. At the same time I nutted out a way of mounting the motor in the existing motors spot and fabricated the necessary bits and pieces. The original intermediate drive pulley was toothed for a timing belt, I took this to the workshop and machined off the teeth after truing and machined it for a J profile ribbed belt and sourced a new pulley for the dc motor and suitable belt. A ribbed belt is much much quieter than a toothed especially at higher speeds.

 Control box - 1 fan blowing in from below onto heatsink, another fan blowing it out. Programmable auto fan control on front window.




Box wiring




 K**M-225D heatsink from an old variable frequency drive - temp sensor buried inside it hasn't seen greater than 28 degrees C (82F) yet. Pretty lush eh? K type thermocouple buried in center of heatsink - you can see the wires coming out.




J profile pulley




Motor mounts and adjustment




Drive arrangement



New headstock fascias are split so acess to headstock or gearbox is easier. Stainless steel 1.2mm thick provides better support for switches.




Its been up and running for a while now, this is one quiet machine. Even at high speed its quiet, the loudest noises are the ticking of the seam on the v belt as it spins past and the motor fan. Notice I've left the original stepped pulleys. I decided to do this to take advantage of really low speeds and high torque when the vee belt is on the far left pulley and really high speeds and low torque when set in the vee closest to the headstock. I haven't had to shift it from the center vee yet as I find with the speed pot dialed right down I can screwcut at about 40rpm quite comfortably and dial it up to 5 for about 800rpm.
These numbers aren't measured or calculated, I'll update these as soon as I can.

tbc


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## AIrlineRefueler

I like what you have done with your lathe I knew when my missus last summer was going to get rid of a nice tread mill her sister gave her it might come in handy at some time she told me to take it to the dump but i have  it tucked in a corner of the garage as it has a 2.5 hp dc motor inside that I figured I might be able to use in the future.


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## fitterman1

I say grab the motor and bearings out of the rollers, turf the rest and reclaim some space.


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## fitterman1

Here's a shot of my compound slide.




It has a Chinese QCTP which I fitted. Note extra gib adjuster screws. There are 5. The 6th is not for pushing the gib key over. I'm going to drill and tap the gib key so the function of this screw is to stop it sliding back and forth instead of relying on a slot that's machined across the face of the gib. Currently the original gib is installed, its made out of cast iron. I'm going to replace it with a brass unit in a while. The horizontal mating faces have been scraped which made it much smoother to operate. The dovetails will have to wait until I can fabricate a scraper small enough to fit in.
I also had to file the daylights out of the gib key as it was forcing the upper slide to lose contact when I adjusted the gib screws (only on the screw side). I feel the cause of this was the adjusting screws were situated too high in combination with no dimples for the grub screws to ride in and help push the gib key into its correct position. So the gib was hit with a dremel fitted with a 4mm diamond ball burr and a domed recess ground out where the adjusting screws contacted. The grub screws were replaced with new ones which I had machined a ball end onto. Much better control of adjustment now and travel action is now smooth and consistent with no jumping back on interrupted cuts.
Here's a shot of my gib key installed.


Notice how the original gib key doesn't even fill its slot, that's a measured gap of 2.8mm/0.110" that should be filled  to within a few thou clearance for adjustment and easy assembly/dismantling. Future job.
I've also made a front dovetail cover out of aluminum and a seal to keep crap out and oil in, you can see it in the photos. A rear one is still to be made.


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## ch2co

Quite good!  Especially by one who is always hanging on the bottom side of the earth. (sorry)
Man you don't rest do you? You've done more to your little lathe in no time than my G0602 received in its 12? years. 
Got it used.
Couple of other things you might want to do:  1 add DRO's.  I highly recommend them. Takes a lot of guessing and time out of the equations.
2: Build yourself a new more substantial base plate for your 2 bolt compound base. There are plans in the 0602 section of these forums.
It made a big difference in the rigidity of the compound.  A bigger footprint, and four to six bolts holding it down.  As it is it tends to rock
back and forth causing less than stellar finished.  I can't remember do you have a tachometer? very handy.
Beautiful work man. Keep us up with your further escapades. Thanks.

CHuck the grumpy old guy


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## fitterman1

Hi Chuck,  thanks for the accolades, its terrible being down here always on the lookout for the edge of the world, so I don't dropoff LOL. Lathe is an ongoing project similar to others. Just depicting how I go about things.
Can't stand things not operating as they should. DRO's are in the pipeline, only when the physical aspects are completed and I'm satisfied with its performance.
Compound base will also get modded, I'm looking around at the stiffest options and how to implement them. I've noticed a difficulty in parting off, with the blade springing around. I use indexable tools 95% of the time with hss for form tools.
I don't know whether I'll put a tacho on, can't seem to make up my mind. I looked into it during the wiring stages then forgot about it, so its still possible as I have a 12vdc feed into my headstock and there are lots of hall effect systems floating around on the net so its just in the background for now.
Once again thanks for your kind comments, I'll add more as the fog lifts.
cheers Alby


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## fitterman1

Had an issue with the tailstock quill being stiff to operate and also when fitting a drillbit or tool into the keyless chuck the quill would rotate slightly also upon clamping it tight. Found this highly annoying. I pulled it to bits and refitted the quill by hand and slid it in and out and round and round. It felt really good fitwise, no lash. Looking into the guide mechanism I saw the grubscrew which acted as a key was a conepoint not a dogpoint so I turned it into a dogpoint using a new grubscrew and the collet chuck to mount it. I turned the end down to 4.8mm for 3mm in length. Then I thought this was going to be worse, the keyway is 8mm across. I needed a shank of 8mm but that would prove to be too difficult to fit from the inside (not impossible but doable). I ended up turning a 1/8th thick washer out of brass with a 4.9mm hole in the center. Then filed it  like a small parallel key with the top surface having a radius to match the quill bore. It looks like this.




Then I slotted it into the quill keyway and inserted it into the bore of the tailstock and lined it up with the grubscrew hole and checked the grubscrew didn't drag on the keyway base. A coupl drops of oil and wonderful, no more sideslap.
I sacrificed a few millimeters in travel for it though and I have to be careful not to over extend the quill or it might fall out. It did eradicate the stiff operation of the handle which I put down to the original grubscrew dragging along one edge of the keyway.
Here's the grubscrew



Another thing done was fitting a digital caliper to the tailstock.




Butchering a cheap caliper I made the clamp
	

		
			
		

		
	



and fitted a caliper stem




and a stainless steel bracket bonded to the reading head of the caliper



This last one was in answer to ch2co who suggested fitting dro's. So far this is as far as I've gotten mate.


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## fitterman1

Since my last post I was thinking about that brass key locking the tailstock quill from rotating. I wasn't happy about it falling out so went back to the lathe and dismantled it again. I saw that it was possible to fit one in from inside the quill bore.
I grabbed an m8 socket head cap screw about 30mm long and set it up in the collet chuck, and machined most of the head off. It was reduced to 8mm od and given a 45 degree chamfer above the base and a short groove above that.



Then it was removed and cut to 13mm length and rechucked and faced to a length of 12mm. A junior hacksaw provided a slot for a screwdriver and then it was test fitted with the quill in the bore. I had to remove the handwheel and spindle assembly to access the hole. It turned out a really snug fit with less than 1/4 turn of the screw before bottoming out in the keyway. Job well done and I gained a couple mm's of travel and the falling of the key was eliminated.





Quill guide screws old above and new below. It still moves smoothly same as before and one part was removed.
A highly recommended mod if your quill rotates when fitting tools into a keyless chuck.


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## ch2co

Wow, Fitterman, this was a new lathe? with a factory installed cone point setscrew in the tailstock? Big blunder.
Your fix, as usual, was elegant. See you also have a first step into the DRO world with your calipers. Only 2-3 more
axis to go.


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## fitterman1

No ch2co, not completely new when I acquired it, I'd call it brand new secondhand. Yes a conescrew was found guiding the quill. I'm also surprised to hear about the forums that other G0602 owners have sockethead capscrews clamping the headstock down to the beds. I found studs on my machine. To me it doesn't matter because everything gets upgraded anyway somewhere along the line. I put the digital caliper on a couple of months ago, an easy mod and handy as well. It was only yesterday that I was adding the quill mod featuring the brass key and dogpoint screw, that I had done recently when I realised that I could insert a screw in from the underside via the bore and so less than an hour later it was completely done. Very satisfying this type of work.


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## fitterman1

Another requirement when I initially went to variable speed on my lathe, was that the spindle had to stop inside of a second when I switched off or hit the e-stop. I built this in to take advantage of the fact that the G0602 doesn't have any form of braking, so screwcutting becomes a hairy proposition. So taking advantage of the contactor which is used for powering the motor I put a resistor rated at 10 Ohms/ 100W across the terminals so that when the contactor is de-energised the motor terminals are shorted through the resistor. Conversely when energized, the resistor is isolated from the circuit and power feeds the motor. This acts as a brake when connected to a DC motor and the energy directed at the resistor is dissipated by a heatsink externally mounted. I also drilled a series of breather holes on that back contactor cover to allow some convection cooling for the contactor and its coil as otherwise temperature buildup would cause the
coil to fail over time.






The contactor is a quality unit so coil replacement shouldn't be difficult. This is also the original contactor by the way.
The resistor choice was my decision and works efficiently. If I had wanted a more gradual ramping down of spindle revs I would have gone for a higher Ohms value but kept the same Wattage.
This mod will work on any dc variable drive unit as long as the contactor has the necessary terminals to accommodate it. Please consult a professional sparky if you don't know what you're doing in this department because electrickery is unforgiving.


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## fitterman1

Here's something I did to pass the time this morning. Fit some lube points for the compound seeing that none exist. One for each side of the dovetail, and one for the compound spindle nut.
20mm in from the edges and 80mm in from the chuck end were the positions for the dovetail oil points. And the spindle nut hole was in the center about 111mm from the chuck end. The spindle nut is just a brass cylinder of 16mm diameter,  drilled and tapped m8 x 1mm pitch perpendicular to its axis and slotted into a neat fitting hole. If this nut is a poor fit into its hole then no amount of adjustment will rectify any backlash. So my plan is to open up the nut bore to 22mm and fabricate a new nut to suit. This new nut will be slit on one side and fitted with one or two small m3 countersunk screws for nipping up any backlash.
Here's some shots of the topslide.










I drilled and tapped my oil ports 1/16th bspt. I used a tapered tap so I could adjust the height of the plugs so they were flush with the top of the upper slide. I'm not a fan of ball oilers because I believe you will be pushing a small amount of microswarf into the oil galleries and that will form a lovely grinding paste. An airline will take care of swarf buildup in the sockets. The ports were positioned so the qctp could swing and not foul on them anyway.


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## ch2co

The big problem that I've had with the ball oilers, is the ball with its spring falling out of their holder INTO the oiler hole, leaving an unplugged open hole
 and the ball and spring lying loosely in the oiler hole. When I got my used lathe, there was a bag of new replacement ball oilers in the parts box. None 
of them any better than the ones that they are supposed to replace. Probably just cheap ball oilers. There must be good ones out there or nobody would use them.


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## HBilly1022

fitterman1, I love your solution for the TS quill spinning. I have the same lathe (KING 1022ML) and the spinning TS quill drove me crazy. I never found a solution I liked until your post. If you don't mind, I will copy your fix and upgrade my TS quill too. I don't use this lathe much since getting its bigger brother but that TS fix is simple and a very good solution.

I've never seen anyone go through as much detail as you to improve these lathes. The work you have done is excellent and by the time you're done you will have produced a precision machine from a "sow's ear" as Hman said. Very impressive.


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## fitterman1

Hi fellas, as you know in this day and age many things are built to the dollar rather than a standard. The G0602 is of the former and the decision to acquire it was mine, quite well knowing that it would need work to spruce up.
I didn't want a larger machine because I have two at work sitting idle most days and so always available.

@ ch2co yes, ball oilers are a pain, I distinctly remember the old ones used to be made out of pressed steel. I prefer to use threaded plugs, it takes longer to lube and there's minimum chance of gunk getting in. All my ball oilers will be changed over as time goes on, hence the above post on how I went about it. If you want to stick with them I suggest you make a small jig with a through hole which will hold the oiler with a light pushfit. And also fabricate a punch to as close a sliding fit as possible but with a concave end and use this to lightly peen the end closed a bit further to retain the spring. As long as oil can get through bob's your uncle.

@ HBilly1022, please feel free to use my method of preventing quill spin, or anyone else for that matter. You will notice an increase in smooth operation. I don't know if anyone else has come up with this solution before but it took me two goes to get it right. I hope others can make use of my experiences and use them as a base standard for their machines regardless of model. All it takes is time, desire and some nous.
I wouldn't say I'm going into that much detail its my modus operandi. I'll keep adding to this as time goes on, its like finding a new hobby.

cheers


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## markba633csi

Looks nice Fitterman, I'm surprised your braking resistor needed so much heatsink but I guess you determined it was necessary. 
Keep chipping! Gday!
Mark S.


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## fitterman1

Hi Mark, that chunk of heatsink was the offcut of the one attached to the kbmm in my control box. It probably was overkill, but I used it anyway. I even thought about fitting a fan to it but decided convection cooling was enough.
I usually over engineer when I design something, it really depends on the resources at hand. Thanks for the comments, hope you enjoy it and can use some ideas.
cheers Alby


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## markba633csi

Hi Alby; my problem has been underkill in the past, but I've gotten better now  
Working in industry for 25 years does that to you.
Ciao,
Mark S.


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## fitterman1

Made a new gib key for my compound slide.

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## ch2co

This just shows you the variability of these lathes. My compound has about .060" clearance between the gib and the sidewalls. In comparison yours has an immense gap!
And it looks like you are using a hand hacksaw to cut your gib?  Dedication. Very well done, again.

CHuck the grumpy old guy


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## fitterman1

Hi Chuck you're correct on variability, although I fear we'll see more of it in the future. I can safely assume the machinist tasked with making these dovetails has no concept of tolerances or quality control.
Or he pranged his cutter into the work and had to cover it up by going that wide, anything to save his job.
I made the key 155mm(6 1/8") long, 9.3mm (0.366") high and 7.35mm (0.289") thick, quite a hefty key for a compound. It fills the space fully, I can only get a 0.0015" feeler in the end gap and am now considering using one of the adjusting screws as a compound lock by changing it over to a knobbed version. It doesn't take much to lock up the compound now.
Cheers


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## fitterman1

Stuffed around with the lathe today. Wanted to fit a 20mm threading bar to a toolholding block for my qctp. The toolholder has a 3/4" bore and comes with an adaptor for fitting a 16mm or 5/8" bar. You know what they look like. The bar is a Posithread insert holder for screwcutting and is known as a 2020-16 and holds NR16 size inserts. A fairly rigid tool that I like and use a lot. I ended up having to bore out the toolholder on the lathe and finish reamed the bore.



Also toyed  around with the concept of a new nut for the compound. I had an idea a while ago of replacing the original spindle nut for an adjustable one, because I have around 005" backlash at the moment. Its manageable because all lathes have some backlash, I just want to minimize it to near zero, so I measured the old one and decided to go bigger in diameter whilst maintaining the height. The reason I went larger in diameter is because I needed space for the adjusting screws and lineup pins.
Here's what I came up with.




Made out of brass with two locating pins pressed into the bottom half, the top has an oil hole which can be filled via a lubing port in the upper slide and also two screws for adjustment. This will require me to fit two more ports on the upper compound slide to access the adjusting screws from above.
As the nut is now 22mm in diameter the existing hole will be bored out to a precision fit (or reamed to match). The edge of the existing hole is too close to the end of the lower slide so a decision was made to offset the hole closer to the toolpost end sufficiently to engulf the original. The idea behind it is to have the two parts move towards each other as enforced by the pins and adjusting screws. This way I'm hoping any wear in the thread of the nut continues to form new thread and maintain its profile. Only one way to find out. If the brass wears too fast it may be a good idea to fabricate a new one out of Acetal (Delrin). There's no way I could have made it with one adjusting screw because the fit in the bore would not allow one side being squeezed tight, it would lockup the assembly.
I'm waiting for countersunk screws to be delivered, the black screw in the pictures won't be used as I need to keep the profile flat.

Here's an update to the nut mentioned above. I counterbored the holes for the pins in the upper nut half. Sufficiently deep to add some springs, for preloading the adjusting screws. The adjusting screws are of different diameters and also pitches.
One is m4 x0.7, the other m3 x0.5, both are countersunk to maintain a low profile. I did this to have a finer adjustment on one more so than the other.
Here's some closer shots.





I still haven't implemented this into my compound as yet, I don't have a milling machine at home.
I've got to do it at work, on the mill there, so hopefully soon. Will keep you posted.


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## jsh

I am new here and try to read and understand all I can absorb. I am amazed is about all I can say. I look forward to more of your post. 
Jeff


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## master of none

Hey Fitterman 1,I have the same lathe and the same problems it's really good to have you here at HM and your knowledge of this 
lathe this is going to solve a lot of headaches that I have about this machine, I really like it but the little problems it has drives me 
insane ,thanks a lot                       Rick


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## fitterman1

Hello Rick, don't worry too much about the little problems, you don't need the stress. Enjoy your machinetool and when something about it bothers you, sing out and I'll help you as much as I can. I'm sure others will pipe up with their experiences and ideas. There's a lot of info on this lathe floating around on the net and what various other owners have done to overcome its shortcomings.
If you find a fault then write it down on a paper and list it in an order of priority to repair/modify so you know what you've accomplished. When you've finished the work (and remember it will take some time to complete) you'll be proud of the fact its your machine done your way.
Have a look at the work this guy does, this is inspirational. And it just happens when you are confident with your machines.
http://www.clickspringprojects.com/
regards Alby


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## master of none

Hey Alby,I've been making small fixes a little at a time but you gave me better ideas and more practical way of fixing things I appreciate that,thanks           Rick


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## fitterman1

No worries Rick, keep up the good work


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## Dabbler

WOW I admire your skill and thoroughness!  I love your base as well - Brilliant tailstock adjustment!


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## fitterman1

Cheers Dabbler, glad you enjoy it.


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## 4GSR

fitterman1 said:


> A 6" vise is overkill for a RF45 style mill. A 4" is more appropiate for that size mill & IMO 5" max. I have a 5" GMT vise on my PM45 & it's slightly too big. Not enough Y axis travel to make use of the 5" full capacity. Better to save your money rather than getting something too big & most importantly the weight. I take my vise of the table quite often, a 6" is still light enough for me to be carried by hand but I'm glad I have a 5". I also have a 4" vise as well. I prefer the 5" though.
> 
> But those GMT 6" Premium vises are pretty nice. I'd love to have one but don't need one on my current mill. But if you plan on upgrading to a full size knee mill in the future than the 6" will be perfect.
> 
> 
> Here's what the 5" looks like on my mill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't even complete this cut without my bellows & DRO scale getting in the way. Not enough Y travel & the 5" vise is not even maxed out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what a 6" vise looks like on another PM45 (gt40's)
> View attachment 253544



The missing pictures is an issue with photobucket. Nothing we can do at H-M. If you have the original pictures, re-attach by adding a new post to the thread.

Ken


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## fitterman1

4gsr said:


> The missing pictures is an issue with photobucket. Nothing we can do at H-M. If you have the original pictures, re-attach by adding a new post to the thread.
> 
> Ken


Thanks Ken for replying.
The missing pictures belong to the post text thats there. The lower pictures that are visible belong in my post. In other words what
I'm trying to convey is that the text that is there and the pictures that are missing, don't belong in my post. My text has disappeared.
cheers Alby


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## dewbane

ch2co said:


> The big problem that I've had with the ball oilers, is the ball with its spring falling out of their holder INTO the oiler hole, leaving an unplugged open hole
> and the ball and spring lying loosely in the oiler hole.


Or the ball and spring grinding around inside the tailstock.  I was impressed how much I had to disassemble to change that oiler out.  I looked for a better solution, and ended up ordering a bunch of replacements from Grizzly, because a poor solution is better than an open hole in a dusty shop.


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## fitterman1

Hi dewbane, in regards to oilers, I remove them and fit 1/16th bsp plugs.
See this post further up and look for the compound slide.
Cheers alby


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## GunsOfNavarone

fitterman1 said:


> Another requirement when I initially went to variable speed on my lathe, was that the spindle had to stop inside of a second when I switched off or hit the e-stop. I built this in to take advantage of the fact that the G0602 doesn't have any form of braking, so screwcutting becomes a hairy proposition. So taking advantage of the contactor which is used for powering the motor I put a resistor rated at 10 Ohms/ 100W across the terminals so that when the contactor is de-energised the motor terminals are shorted through the resistor. Conversely when energized, the resistor is isolated from the circuit and power feeds the motor. This acts as a brake when connected to a DC motor and the energy directed at the resistor is dissipated by a heatsink externally mounted. I also drilled a series of breather holes on that back contactor cover to allow some convection cooling for the contactor and its coil as otherwise temperature buildup would cause the
> coil to fail over time.
> 
> View attachment 225819
> View attachment 225820
> View attachment 225821
> 
> 
> The contactor is a quality unit so coil replacement shouldn't be difficult. This is also the original contactor by the way.
> The resistor choice was my decision and works efficiently. If I had wanted a more gradual ramping down of spindle revs I would have gone for a higher Ohms value but kept the same Wattage.
> This mod will work on any dc variable drive unit as long as the contactor has the necessary terminals to accommodate it. Please consult a professional sparky if you don't know what you're doing in this department because electrickery is unforgiving.


@fitterman1 I need your advice here. I have a Teco VFD ready to install with a Leeson 1hp motor. I was looking forward to having an electronic brake, but my VFD doesn't support. Are you saying there is a way to do that within the stock contactor/relay? How did you manage this? p.s. I'm not an electrician so feel free to dumb it down! Thanks Matey (that's what you guys say right?)  ; )


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## fitterman1

Hi Guns, I'm not a licensed sparky either but do have reasonable experience. So I'll try to make sense of it for you in the best way possible... matey.
There is a way of doing it using the stock contactor "only" if you use a DC motor.
The motor I fitted to my lathe is a DC motor (from a treadmill by the way)  rather than an AC unit. The reason I did this was threefold.
1) to have variable speed control of the lathe spindle, using the stock contactor.
2) to not have to purchase and wire up a VFD.
3) have automatic braking.
Control was via a potentiometer within easy reach on my headstock panel. Braking is achieved when i turn off the motor, automatically by a resistor which shorts the motor winding.
It seems to be that because a DC motor is
a) a motor to drive something and
b) also a generator of voltage, that when I switch off power to the contactor (which is  powering my motor), the motor then becomes a generator because it is still rotating. This voltage generation has to be controlled by having a resistor shorted across the terminals  when the switch is thrown, otherwise it will slowly spin down by friction alone.
The value of the resistor ( I used a 10 Ohms/ 100W power resistor) you use determines the rate of slowing down, so by careful experimentation you can work out the length of time it takes to stop the chuck.
Eg 10 Ohms stops my chuck in about a second, if I went to 50 Ohms it would stop in probably 10-12 seconds.
My contactor is the standard Siemens unit that came with the lathe. This contactor has two sets of contacts, one pair being normally open and the other pair normally closed. This is so the contactor can be used for two different functions.
Think of them as two switches that operate at the same time instantaneously, but into two different states.
The contactors state at rest has one pair wired, so that when I switch the motor on they become switched closed and supply power to my motor and it commences rotating my spindle.
Prior to my flicking that switch, those same contacts, which were in a rest state, were actually shorting out the motor windings via a resistor.
I hope this makes sense to you.

Because you have a single phase motor and a VFD, I dont think you can achieve braking in the same manner as my setup just by using a resistor because your AC motor cannot generate.
Someone with electrical instrumentation experience needs to be consulted as to whether its possible or not because its out of  my scope of experience. There must be some sparkies on this site with motor control experience that can help.
Let me know how you go, I can help with other stuff if required.
Regards Alby


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## GunsOfNavarone

Sparky?!? Wow, you guys have different words for everything! Thanks @fitterman1 I appreciate the somewhat simple answer you supplied. I'm really bummed that braking isn't an option for me. There is a light braking option...maybe 5 seconds (I think you guys call them little minutes) or so...could still be catastrophic for a newb like myself.
I enjoy your threads...you got another follower.


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## fitterman1

Guns, if you think there is a braking function built in, take advantage of it. The user manual for the vfd must mention something. And it may be adjustable when setting up the vfd. I can only think that there is some kind of phase reversal to create a shift in the magnetic flux of the motor, thereby braking the rotor. In fact if there is a capacity to change direction of the rotor from inside the vfd rather than by contactor control then it may be feasible.
Had a look on the Teco site and got a manual for the E510 unit. Page 4-30 mentions deceleration time settings of 0.1 - 3600seconds. The default on this model is 10s. So it may be feasible.
Don't give up.
cheers Alby


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## Dabbler

VFD braking function depends on the model...  Almost every modern one has it.  The ones that do quick braking need an external resistor attached (which I will be adding one day to mine - as soon as I buy a 'round tuit') 

@GunsOfNavarone please let me know what your model number is, and I can check it out for you.  I have only done 2 Teco VFD installs,  but i used to build PLCs professionally for a living before retirement, so I'm an 'experienced amateur'....


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## GunsOfNavarone

@Dabbler it is the Teco L510-101-H1
I appreciate anything you can throw at me!


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## Dabbler

I had a look at your manual online.  You have an internal braking resistor.  If you refer to the wiring diagram in section 3 of your manual, you may have  "P" and "BR" terminals on your power side.  If you do, you cna add an external braking resistor.  I have a Teco L510, but in the 2HP version, running a 2HP motor,  I brake in .5 seconds all, the time.  I do not (yet) use an external braking resistor. * I am on a milling machine* where the stored energy in  the spindle and tooling is much *less than on a lathe*. This is how the need for an external resistor is created. The chuck and the gearing store rotational energy, and the VFD will siphon that energy to an external resistor, but there is no way to do this without the switching in the VFD to do it for you. You may get to brake in shorter time than 5 seconds, but that would take an IR thermometer and some testing to achieve.

[okay- for the nitpickers with EE degrees, there is a very good way to add braking to a VFD without it, but not for a novice]

In short look at your power terminals and look for a BR ternimal and get back to me.  Like I said before, it depends on the model, and the manual is for all 510 models.


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## GunsOfNavarone

Yeah, I came across that in the manual as well. I do not have those terminals, but there's is some internal braking available, but not a lot. Again, at say 1200 rpm with a 6.5" chuck, it would stop in about 3 to 4 seconds. With what fitterman did with the stock contactor, i didn't know if there was some magic that could be sprinkled in this to get it better than that. Thanks for your looking into that. I have read different things, started questioning what I thought I sort of understood.


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## Dabbler

You can upgrade your VFD, and then add a braking resistor:  subsecond stops.


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