# south bend round column mill has a new owner!



## richl (Jul 28, 2013)

I saw this lathe listed on craiigslityesterday... a phone call to its-me-bernie... than an email to the owner. It had a cool conversation with the.owner. an easy exchange an its mine. Just have.to get her home Anyone have.some info on this machine. The old owner did not have much info on it,  the tooling consisted of just.a handfull of coolers.ThanksRich


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## richl (Jul 28, 2013)

A few other pics side view and gearing in the head

Rich


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## woodtickgreg (Jul 29, 2013)

Nice score! Ok so everyone wants to know, how much?


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## richl (Aug 1, 2013)

I got her home tonite  I am a happy camper. She needs some cleaning, grease and paint. It probably would not hurt to redo some of the wiring also... but she was running smooth and silent before we pulled the turrent and head off for transportation. Heavy.!!!!  My God she is a beast 
Tomorrow I find a pallet Jack and pull the pallets out of the trailer.:I
I also got a Rockwell 11x36 project lathe  the seller got each machine for the price of scrap, he passed the savings to me, the 2 machines were mine for 1000 use. The mill being the bulk of that. Tomorrow will be another fast paced day!

Rich


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## itsme_Bernie (Aug 1, 2013)

Yahoo Rich!! 

I am happy you can start making chips soon!  
We'll get that thing all figured out!


Bernie


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## itsme_Bernie (Aug 2, 2013)

Hey Rich- how's the ramp-building going?  I'm curious what your ramp is going to look like...


Bernie


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## richl (Aug 2, 2013)

Hey Bernie!
Ramp worked out well. Started at.6am this morning, rented a pallet Jack, purchased some material foe the ramp. By 10:30 am the U-Haul van was back at.the rental place. I have.been rearranging the shop and getting the machines in place.  The mill is still in 2 pieces. I haven't decided whether to purchase am engine hoist or rent one...

I have pics but no way to get them on the internet right now.

Thanks for keeping touch!

Rich


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## richl (Aug 3, 2013)

I just need to get the head and turrent back onto the base, wire her back up and she will be running again in her new home
Rich


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## richl (Aug 17, 2013)

South Bend model 4219, I'found out other things in my search for information. I'm having trouble getting pics loaded right now. I spent tne last couple of weeks sanding the base, column and turrent down to bare metal than finally painting. unfortunately she had someone attack her pretty heavily with a grinder and abrassive wheel... it tokk some thick primer, glazing compound and some sanding to make her acceptable. The painting started out as a few touchup spots but quickly turned into a bare metal paint job.

rich


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## woodtickgreg (Aug 17, 2013)

I'm still digging this mill, she's old school cool. The grind marks you are seeing are probably from the factory, they ground pretty agressivly on the large castings, I saw plenty of that on my heavy 10 lathe pedestal. I just light sanded it and used a heavy primer coat like you are doing, turned out fine.


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## genec (Aug 17, 2013)

From the few things that I was able to see, she looks like she is in pretty good shape.  Enjoy


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## richl (Aug 17, 2013)

woodtickgreg said:


> I'm still digging this mill, she's old school cool. The grind marks you are seeing are probably from the factory, they ground pretty agressivly on the large castings, I saw plenty of that on my heavy 10 lathe pedestal. I just light sanded it and used a heavy primer coat like you are doing, turned out fine.



thanks for the replys
I am not suprised to hear that, it appeared to beunder the first coat of paint and primer, and for the not part seemed to be done by someone not looking to scar it too badly. She has had 3-4 heavy coats of paint over the years. I am looking to 2 tone the paint, with the smoke gray(a light gray) i am looking to add royal blue that will brigten her up anyway

thanks for stopping by!

rich


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## richl (Aug 19, 2013)

Full coat of paint, I am cleaning up the mechanical before I take apart the head and strip and paint that. Spindle is a #30 taper, it has the Universal Engineering Z collets.

Hope you enjoy!)

Rich


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## richl (Sep 3, 2013)

Having fun learning about my new machines (both are very old, but new to me)).
Yesterday I trammed up the table. I had to make a tramming device, which was nothing more than some 5/8" rod, 1/4" rod and a harbor freight dial caliper. After adjusting the head to the table and thinking I was good, on rechecking it later I noticed that the head was not trammed in very well, it was 10,000ths off. After some adjustments more I noticed that the head needed to be fully tightened back to the ram column or there was movement as I adjusted the head.

Not having a service manual for the lathe, I am learning everything firsthand, for the most part it is not a problem, but some things it is a bit of a leaning curve. The system I am using now is to swing the tramming device from one side to the other, find the amount they are different, loosen the 4 allen bolts attaching the head to the ram. The last allen close to the adjustment allen I leave partially snug. Now even if loosening it moves the head (and it did every-time I tried) I could take the dial caliper of the new reading and move it the appropriate direction but half the distance of the first trial reading. This system yielded a trammed head to table that was 2000ths out in 20"-22" of table travel (in the x direction). Just to be through, I also checked the y direction which as less that half a thousand out in the 9". And to just check, I set up the dial caliper, trammed the table to the far left of travel and trammed it to the far right, that is around 36" or the 42" of travel of the table, less than 3000ths out over the whole of the table.

Not sure I want to try to get it any better than that, it is a bit hit of miss with the tightening the allens before and after the adjustments. Real good learning experience though.

Planning on making some tooling, too broke right now to buy anything, so I am looking to hunt down some metal to make tee nuts, and clamp downs. Lots of cool projects to come I am sure... just need to come up with some money to purchase some end mills and some threaded rod). Good to be on a budget, it forces you to be more thorough than you would be normally!

rich


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## richl (Sep 7, 2013)

you know... when i wrote that message above it sounded right... than rereading it.... what was i thinking lol:nuts:
nothing todo now than just say... damn, im a noob, and occassionaly i am gonna writte some really silly things:roflmao:
guess ill post a couple of pics. shes been sitting here waiting for me to make some tooling and purxhase some cutters, unfortunately i am a tad bit financially challenged right now. Hopefully in the next week or 2 things change around here)
rich


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## stevecmo (Sep 7, 2013)

Rich,

That SB turned out nice.  Great job!

Don't be in a rush on the tooling.....it takes time to accumulate what you need.

Steve


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## richl (Nov 16, 2013)

A couple of months later, i am finally just getting her cutting. I purchased a 5/8" straight shank to jt3 and some end mills and a boring bar set. Today i started to work thru some beginning projects.


aYou can purchase t slots for 50 cents apiece, but what do you learn that way:whistle:
After drill the pilot hole and the 27/64" holes I tapped them to 1/2" x 13 threads.

Question:

1) i have a 8 speed mill, an upper range from 900 rpm to 3750 rpm, and than a lower range 125 rpm to 560 rpm. The upper range runs smooth, while the lower range sounds bad, like it is having a bearing or bushing issue. Under load much of the noice appears to lessen substancially. This leads me to believe there is an issue with the timing gear, the low range... any ideas of things i should look into or check? I do not believe it is a spindle bearing, else the spindle woul make noice in both ranges... the parts break out for the machine is not offering enough information. I do not want to disemble the head just yet.

thanks formany help.

rich


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## itsme_Bernie (Nov 16, 2013)

Is it a back-gear style low range?  Like a lathe headstock?  A bull gear, pin to pull, lever to engage?  Or fully belt? 



Bernie


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## richl (Nov 16, 2013)

Fully belt driven Bernie, you slide the timing belt from the one set of pulleys to the other range. The upper range is driven by a smaller gear and is on top of the larger gear for the lower range, my guess is there are larger forces on the larger gear. Thenparts breakdown does not appear to show any bearings or bushings in the pulley though, my gues would be that... what do you think, or please share any thoughts you might have?

rich

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Fully belt driven Bernie, you slide the timing belt from the one set of pulleys to the other range. The upper range is driven by a smaller gear and is on top of the larger gear for the lower range, my guess is there are larger forces on the larger gear. Thenparts breakdown does not appear to show any bearings or bushings in the pulley though, my gues would be that... what do you think, or please share any thoughts you might have?

rich


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## itsme_Bernie (Nov 17, 2013)

I am in the process, today, of checking and re-building the top end of my Rusnok Milling head.  Squealing noise.

On mine, there is a separate bearing and support for the pulley, so the belt tension doesn't pull on the spindle bearings.  I don't know if the needs replacing or just cleaning.  It is mostly apart now, and that bearing is soaking.  Took only 45 minutes or so!

Does anything change the noise?  You said under load it goes away?

I learned a great way to isolate bearing noises with a wooden broom handle or similar wooden handle.  Put your ear on one end, and press the other end on the head, while running, near all the other places on the head.   See exactly where noise is coming from.

I also wonder if grease is really getting to all the places it needs to In there. That might be all you need. 

BTW- remind me to send you a cool catalog pages with your mill !

Bernie


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## richl (Nov 17, 2013)

Thanks for the post Bernie, based on our phone conversation I ran here in the first 4 speeds on the larger timing gear, approximately 1 hour in each. This has quited her down some (read alot) , I also squirted iso 32 oil where ever i thought it could get into the bearings for the pulleys, timing pulleys and bearings) she is on the greasy side rigt now:lmao: I don't want to pull the head apart just yet, I wanna have some idea of what I am working with, and in the process make some tooling for her.  I wish the parts breakdown diagrams were a bit more specific for this side of the pulley path to the spindle, lots of info on the spindle and the back pulleys, for some reason the front pulleys do not show any bearings or bushings.

As for the sales brochure you say you found, I'd love to see it! I have found a couple on the web already for her, some of them are full of interesting stuff like accessories that could be ordered for the mill... love the price lists, 1911 in 1958 bougtnthis mill:roflmao: she has not depreciated in price over the years:whistle: They have one phamphlet that has a pretty blond in a white frilly dress posing next to the machine, that dress would not be so white if she was standing next to mine:roflmao:

rich


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## itsme_Bernie (Nov 17, 2013)

Just sent you info



Bernie


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## george wilson (Nov 18, 2013)

The round rims of the handles should not be painted,but should be polished bright.


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## richl (Nov 18, 2013)

george wilson said:


> The round rims of the handles should not be painted,but should be polished bright.


Of course you are right George...the rookie rebuilder in me painted the whole hand wheel. I plan to revisit this build sometime from now till the springtime, if it is possible I'll be redoing much of the paint. Till that time I plan to get the mechnicals working as well as possible.

bernie, thanks forr the info,, while i had much of this information already, i had no idea about the hardware cross reference, that might just come in handy!

rich


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## stevecmo (Nov 18, 2013)

Rich,

Those hand wheels are an easy fix.  Chuck the hub in your lathe.  A little Scotch Brite, a little FINE grit sand paper, a little 000 steel wool, a little polish and you're done.  Not a big deal to clean them up.  

Steve


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## richl (Nov 19, 2013)

stevecmo said:


> Rich,
> 
> Those hand wheels are an easy fix.  Chuck the hub in your lathe.  A little Scotch Brite, a little FINE grit sand paper, a little 000 steel wool, a little polish and you're done.  Not a big deal to clean them up.
> 
> Steve



thanks steve! i'll put that on the list

rich


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