# What's a reasonable workshop gantry beam?



## graham-xrf (Jun 11, 2021)

This is exploring the beginnings of what it takes to conveniently lift stuff around a workshop. I can still (just about) manage a 25kg cement bag under each arm, but I strain a few valves on the way. I get it that one can have a hydraulic arm thingy usually used for car engines, but its a tad inconvenient in that it needs to put it's legs and wheels somewhat under benches, and needs a lot of space around it.

My notion was to provide each side of a 6m long little shop (that's about 20ft), with  RSJ steels up at the ceiling level, hooked to every joist, and figure out a gantry beam with rollers each end, and a winch. To be able to grab onto a winch hook, and move heavy stuff just anywhere seems attractive, even if it's just a heavy chuck I don't want to drop on the ways.

So the question is .. what is a reasonable size beam to span the 3.65m width, (about 12ft), and expect to lift (say) a mill drill or other stuff up to about 220kg (that's about 480lb)? I suppose one might throw in a bit for unknown future heavy stuff, and some for a factor of safety.

Another related question is, what is a reasonable deflection it can have when fully loaded? One does not want the thing to very visibly sag, but it would be nice to know a reasonable number. My instinct says 1 or 2 mm, but what is the norm with this stuff?


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## benmychree (Jun 11, 2021)

That is a question for a professional engineer ---


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## rabler (Jun 11, 2021)

You would need to have a structure engineered to not fail at 5 times the expected max load.  That is the standard safety margin for overhead lifting devices.  This avoids issues with metal fatigue, etc.  From an engineering prospectiv, ceilings that are not part of a floor for an above story have almost no weight bearing capability, even if it includes attic space.  So you will never get an engineer to approve such an arrangement.

People have obviously made such things work, but at some risk.    If I were doing such an arrangement I’d think about maybe 100lbs max load and plan on moving anything heavier with a engine hoist or light duty gantry crane available say via Amazon.  For the 100 lb load, attaching barn door track or unistrut type track and a light duty dolley is your best bet.  Inspect regularly and realize that you are assuming the risk if it fails and drops on someone.


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## f350ca (Jun 11, 2021)

One of the best things you'll ever install. My shop is 24 wide so the beam is about 11 foot. Have one in each bay. Designed for 500 pounds with a huge safety factor.
	

		
			
		

		
	



benmychree is correct, or spec it yourself, there are beam calculators on the net that will give you the size. Strength isn't the determining criteria but deflection as you mentioned, probably 2 or 3 mm is a good number, much more and the trolley will want to roll to the center.
I often see tapered rollers to match the inside face of the flange, that doesn't work. Angle a flat roller to mate flange.
Allow the ends to float or variances in width and debris on the flange will make it bind while rolling.

Greg


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## francist (Jun 11, 2021)

Have a poke through this site, you may find something to build on (hehe). Called "ModTruss" and it's truly impressive stuff. I had the opportunity recently to be involved with a construction out of it for the motion picture industry ( I was an active bystander, the riggers were building ) and it's pretty neat. Really small section for the amount of weight it can carry, and the end plates are rated as well so you can literally bolt the ends of box beam sections together and have the beam bear load without additional side plates. Pretty wild. No idea of cost, I suspect the amount that I saw was rented for the specific task, but the rental place still had to buy it from somewhere. For reference we were using the 6" aluminum box sections with maybe an 16' span. Load was estimated at around 600 to 800 lbs, deflection of the member was about 3/4" at full stop. A seven foot length of box beam weighed maybe 20lbs.









						Home - Modtruss
					

ModTruss is a revolutionary approach to designing and building for anytype of industry, application, or sector. See our many projects and applications in the image gallery. Our solutions: √ Pre-engineered building components √ Modular, Reconfigurable building components √ Off the Shelf building...




					www.modtruss.com
				




-frank


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## benmychree (Jun 11, 2021)

In my own shop, I use either a "Sky Hook" that can attach to Aloris tool posts or machine table adaptors with the same configuration as Aloris tool holders that are fastened via a stud in the tee slots of machine tables, I also use barn door tracks suspended over my lathe and mill that use a HF winch to change chucks and mill tooling.


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## Janderso (Jun 11, 2021)

I bought a George C Gorton rotary table from Benmychree a while back.
It's getting to the point where I can't lift it safely. This sucker is heavy.
I need to figure out something. I look for excuses not to use it.
A gantry like F350ca would be sweet.


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## benmychree (Jun 11, 2021)

Janderso said:


> I bought a George C Gorton rotary table from Benmychree a while back.
> It's getting to the point where I can't lift it safely. This sucker is heavy.
> I need to figure out something. I look for excuses not to use it.
> A gantry like F350ca would be sweet.


I saw a setup some years ago in a book, where the guy had a bench in back of the mill with a hinged "drawbridge" from the bench to the table, where you could just slide the dividing head or whatever to or from the mill and bench, and hinge it up out of the way when not in use.  Personally I go with your feeling to avoid having to use the rotary table.


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## Mitch Alsup (Jun 11, 2021)

The easy (i.e., cheap) way out is to use a $99 engine hoist........


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## extropic (Jun 11, 2021)

I like this gantry crane. It's mobile, rather than built in, but that can be very useful in some circumstances.


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## Janderso (Jun 11, 2021)

Mitch Alsup said:


> The easy (i.e., cheap) way out is to use a $99 engine hoist........


Where the hell do I store it?
No room man.


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## Janderso (Jun 11, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Where the hell do I store it?
> No room man.


We are really leaning towards selling out and buying property that better suits our needs.
We bought this place out of desperation after the fire.
The good thing, it’s worth a hell of a lot more than what we paid.
I do go on.
You can have your thread back now


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## graham-xrf (Jun 12, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Where the hell do I store it?
> No room man.


Exactly!
There are more issues with engine hoists. They are probably a great idea when you need to lift out an engine, even if you are only going to do it once, though better if you do it all the time in industrial space. They do fold up some, and store up against a wall tall enough to exclude storage shelving. They assemble into a footprint on casters that is unwieldy, and can only approach the thing to be lifted if they can get the spreadeagled wheels under or around, and they take a whole lot of space, and the "heavier" load points are close enough to the hinge point as to have anything dangling under risking fouling the ram.

Then there is the problem movement sticky combined with load inertia. There is nothing smooth about it. It relies on wheels on a floor, and moves in jerks that can threaten a topple as the load catches up with it. Rollers on bearings and nice metal tracks win. Engine arm hoists are cheap, and useful at times, but I would much prefer reaching for a winch hook, and dragging it from anywhere to anywhere.

My shop is going up out in a beautiful bit of country.  The only two neighbors are friendly and supportive, and all else is crops growing, horses, sheep, pheasants and other wildlife. I want my playtime in the shop not to be a place of struggles with lifting kit.


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## projectnut (Jun 12, 2021)

I took a little more simplistic route.  Rather than making a gantry that could span a large area I attached a hoist to a trolley and mounted it on a beam running down the center of the shop.  I lift heavy objects onto a hydraulic table and transport them to wherever they are needed.  The lift range of the table is enough to place the objects on a bench, mill or other machine tool.

I use it regularly to move the 12" rotary table, 8" mill vice, large lathe chucks, and other similar objects.  I have even used it to move and install the head assembly on the Bridgeport mill.  The system works well in my shop.  I don't have enough open space to lift and move anything across the shop.  There are too many machines at various heights that would interfere.

Here's a link to the hoist I have from Northern Tool I also use a hydraulic table similar to the one being used in the video.






						Strongway Electric Cable Hoist  750-Lb. Single Line Capacity, 1500-Lb. Double Line Capacity, 38ft./19ft. Lift | Northern Tool
					

This Strongway Electric Cable Hoist is a rugged, efficient 120V/60 Hz hoist that makes lifting easy. It lifts loads up to 38ft. at speeds...




					www.northerntool.com
				




I built my own beam trolley out of 1" aluminum plate using 2" cam followers to roll along the lower flange of the beam.  Here's a similar trolley from Northern Tool.  Mine has a plate across the bottom with 4-14mm bolts to mount the hoist.



			https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200673898_200673898


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## Aaron_W (Jun 12, 2021)

How often do you expect to move a 500lb item? In a production shop making large things I could see that but building something for that kind of a load when your realistic need is maybe 75-150lbs (larger tooling). Then there is the how often would you move it all the way across the shop?

It seems like smaller more focused methods are more practical, which is why you see solutions like those sky hooks. Setting up a much shorter span / lighter duty track between a specific machine and its tool storage would be far less expensive and more practical. Also wheels are awesome, put your heavy tools on a wheeled cart, then move them to your lifting device situated by the machine.

Moving a machine is a rare thing once you get it into the shop. It seems like for most of us hobby guys a gantry crane spanning a shop is one of those cool things to have that you use when you first move everything in and after that just one more thing to hit your head on.


Also I think you are grossly exaggerating the issues with an engine hoist (other than the %#@*!!! legs that don't fit under or around anything). I've moved several pieces of machinery in the 200-600lb range with mine, and while there is a bit of truth to the issues highlighted, it really only comes into play if you are being careless. The momentum issue you mention exists on a gantry as well, except it becomes more wrecking ball like if you let it get out of control.
Yes Engine hoists are awkward, but they do the job, and the space issue is much reduced if you disassemble them rather than just fold them up when not being used. Takes me less than 10 minutes to take mine apart or put it together, and apart it can easily be tucked under a bench, between a bench and wall or in an unused corner.

If I had the shop of my dreams, I'd move the heavy stuff with a scaled down remote controlled version of this.  





For what you describe I'd think a small mobile crane would be much more practical, something you move to the work, then do the lifting. Distance movement being done low to the ground on wheels. I love my low to the ground wheeled carts. Cheap, effective back savers.

I think Erik Manie put a skyhook on his rolling tool cart, and it seems to be working for his 16" lathe tooling.


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## pineyfolks (Jun 12, 2021)

extropic said:


> I like this gantry crane. It's mobile, rather than built in, but that can be very useful in some circumstances.


Nice setup. I especially like the lift table. I wouldn't be without mine.


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## FOMOGO (Jun 12, 2021)

Look into jib cranes. Can cover a fairly large area, and lift considerable loads, and no storage issues. I'm building one for the machine shop, and another for the welding area, capable of lifting 1/2 ton or better with a 10' reach, which will cover a 10x 20' area. Mike


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## Bi11Hudson (Jun 13, 2021)

As always, individual solutions are usually to fit individual situations. I have some left-over 6 inch wide flange (14#/ft) "I" beam that catches an occasional use. Very rare, but useful. Along with a trolley and Horrible Fright hoist to run on it. Then there is moving a 12X36 lathe around a wood structure where I used (a lot of) motorcycle tie downs from the ceiling joists to handle the weight. I would use a HF engine hoist but haven't the room to stand it in a 14 foot wide structure, what with all the "stuff" I keep there. 

*BUT*, I found a (used) wheelchair lift that is a third(or less) the size of the HF rig. As a medical device, the safety factor is well documented. The chair lift is* rated* for 500 pounds and has about 3 feet of offset. The wheeled feet spread from 1-1/2 ft (18") to about 3 feet. It still requires some room under the bench, but is variable so it can be maneuvered around most "stuff" residing there. The best part is that it can be handled around the small working space. There is some limitation to the lift range, a few jobs where I need to "think through" what I'm doing. It won't reach the ceiling (7 ft) but will reach all my workbenches.

With a long stroke hydraulic jack as the lift cylinder, and medium weight steel frame, I would pit it against a HF engine hoist in everything but reach. I got it cheap because the seller really didn't see the use for it beyond a wheelchair lift. With all the scratches and torn labels, it couldn't be sold as medical equipment so was thought of as scrap.

.


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## Firstgear (Jun 14, 2021)

I bought one of these, https://www.palletforks.com/workshop/cranes/2-ton-adjustable-steel-gantry-crane-shop-lift/840043.html?scid=scbplp840043&sc_intid=840043&msclkid=658bd7fb37101b12da2cb733344a9ab0&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=SC Shopping - NB - Desktop&utm_term=4580840327987836&utm_content=SC Shopping - NB - Desktop 

I used at our Maine home to unload and then position a new PM knee mill. 






If I need to move something heavy, like 2700 pounds like a knee mill I use the overhead gantry with trolley and chain fall.  If I need to get something like a lathe out of my truck or off a tool bench, I.e. PM 1030, I would use this table from Harbor Freight.…








						1000 lb. Capacity Hydraulic Table Cart
					

Amazing deals on this 1000Lb Hydraulic Table Cart at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.




					www.harborfreight.com
				




I should add that my wife and I unloaded the mill and moved it into the garage.  When we lowered it to the ground we put it on 4 car wheel skates and used that to enable for us to be able to push the mill into the garage.  We had to disassemble the gantry to get it into the garage and then reassemble it.  It worked out and most importantly no one got hurt!


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## Boswell (Jun 15, 2021)

Firstgear said:


> I bought one of these,


I have one that looks exactly the same as yours but branded from Northern Tool (Strongway or Ironton). It has been very useful. Very easy to raise and lower by myself.


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