# Getting Started Basic Cnc Software



## grepper

First, I’ve done so much research recently I’m burned out on it.  I’m finding it difficult to Google… 

Second, I have a history of computer programming.  I’ve looked at g-code, m-code, etc., - not a problem.  Compared to most languages it is simple.  I won’t have a problem with that. 

Third, I don’t know enough about this yet to ask educated questions.

I'll be using Mach3/4 and I’ve given a cursory look at it, but not extensively.  I take it that it’s mostly a g-code execution/machine control app with some available wizards.

I’m hoping for an assist by pointing me in the right direction for software to get me started in designing simple parts.  Accessible, inexpensive getting started stuff.  Nothing like AutoCAD, etc.  Just something to design simple parts.  I realize I could just pound out g-code, but I’m looking for a higher level design interface.  Pounding out pages of codes and numbers is dreary and error prone. I Know!  Been there.  Done that.

I guess I'm looking for sort of simple a CAM/CAD like design program- if that even makes sense?  Like I said, I don't know enough to ask and intelligent question.   Please forgive me!

I’ve noticed some code on this forum that was generated by D2nc.  Is that a good starting place?  At first glance it looks like a collection of various tools and wizards.  Sort of a CNC tool porridge.   Don't know if that is what I am looking for or not.

Like most cool stuff, there are so many options... Endless research, for me at least, is brain numbing and very time consuming.  Any help just pointing me in the right direction would be really appreciated. Not any in-depth  explanations or anything like that, just a Zen like finger pointing the way to Cnc nirvana.  

Thanks!


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## Beone

With your history, seriously consider LinixCNC for machine control. Not a prob but needs a little setup. I swear by Vcarve pro, it has great drawing tools and easily imports dxf and other formats. Not free but worth the money. I keep hearing good things about Inkscape. A great free vector drawing package that I hear now has a gcode writer. 
There are a lot of good low cost or free packages out there. 
Dave


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## grepper

Thanks for the suggestion Dave!  Really appreciate it.  

Guess I should have mentioned I going to be using a Windows 7 laptop.  I'm also going to get a Ethernet SmoothStepper and Gecko G540.-  Kind of locked into the Winders world.  Really don't want to dual boot or run OS emulators or anything like that.


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## JimDawson

For CAD/CAM, I'm currently using AutoCAD2000 and CamBam.  Working on the transition to Autodesk Fusion 360.  It's free to hobbyists and has an excellent CAM function built in.  I couldn't find any inexpensive CNC software that I liked, so I just wrote my own. Took a little less than a month to have a working machine.  It's still evolving, it's on V1.112 right now, and V2.0 is coming soon.

Briefly looking through the SmoothStepper web site, it looks like all of the motion control is done on the PC rather than onboard the SmoothStepper  It would be interesting to see what the data stream looks like. Maybe looking at the SmoothStepper Mach3 plugin would shed some light.  One thing I found interesting, I did not see any reference to CNC control software other than Mach 3/4.  Maybe I just didn't dig deep enough.


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## RJSakowski

grepper said:


> First, I’ve done so much research recently I’m burned out on it.  I’m finding it difficult to Google…
> 
> Second, I have a history of computer programming.  I’ve looked at g-code, m-code, etc., - not a problem.  Compared to most languages it is simple.  I won’t have a problem with that.
> 
> Third, I don’t know enough about this yet to ask educated questions.
> 
> I'll be using Mach3/4 and I’ve given a cursory look at it, but not extensively.  I take it that it’s mostly a g-code execution/machine control app with some available wizards.
> 
> I’m hoping for an assist by pointing me in the right direction for software to get me started in designing simple parts.  Accessible, inexpensive getting started stuff.  Nothing like AutoCAD, etc.  Just something to design simple parts.  I realize I could just pound out g-code, but I’m looking for a higher level design interface.  Pounding out pages of codes and numbers is dreary and error prone. I Know!  Been there.  Done that.
> 
> I guess I'm looking for sort of simple a CAM/CAD like design program- if that even makes sense?  Like I said, I don't know enough to ask and intelligent question.   Please forgive me!
> 
> I’ve noticed some code on this forum that was generated by D2nc.  Is that a good starting place?  At first glance it looks like a collection of various tools and wizards.  Sort of a CNC tool porridge.   Don't know if that is what I am looking for or not.
> 
> Like most cool stuff, there are so many options... Endless research, for me at least, is brain numbing and very time consuming.  Any help just pointing me in the right direction would be really appreciated. Not any in-depth  explanations or anything like that, just a Zen like finger pointing the way to Cnc nirvana.
> 
> Thanks!



Take a look at Fusion 360 if you haven't already done so. It is a full featured integrated CAD/CAM package from Autodesk that has a post processor for Mach 3.  Free for students, educators, hobbyists, and small businesses (>$100K/yr.)


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## grepper

JimDawson said:


> I couldn't find any inexpensive CNC software that I liked, so I just wrote my own.


Pretty multi talented of you Jim.   What language did you write it in?  You are so helpful here- Do you ever sleep?


JimDawson said:


> Briefly looking through the SmoothStepper web site, it looks like all of the motion control is done on the PC rather than onboard the SmoothStepper


Really?  I crammed so much research into a week, I very well might have screwed up on that.  I was under the impression it was a true external motion controller.  Crap.  I'll have to check that out again.  Thanks for the heads-up.  Hopefully it's not back to the drawing board for me.  Don't know if I could take it!   Even so, it might be worth it just for control over Ethernet.  Considering this stuff can run off a parallel port, I guess it's not too demanding.  I agree.  Would be interesting to see that data stream.  The UC100 is still an option, but I don't like the length limitation of USB cabling. 


JimDawson said:


> I did not see any reference to CNC control software other than Mach 3/4. Maybe I just didn't dig deep enough.


I think you are right about that.  I know so little about all of this.  I had decided to go with Mach because it seems so ubiquitous, well supported. and not too expensive as well as being on Windows which I want.   Even though my screen name is grep-per, and my cat's name was Grep, I really don't want to run Unix or Linux.  I don't want to check out my g-code with ed ++6.


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## grepper

Thanks RJ.  I'll check it out.  I keep hearing it mentioned.  Free is good!  Only thing is that it's cloud based and I live out in the sticks; limited to wireless 'Net access with a (gasp) 20GB limit, which I use most of every month already.  4G LTE is probably fast enough, I just wonder how data intensive Fusion is.  I can't get Internet over phone lines because of the type of phone distribution switches there are out here, and there is no cable on my street.  True story:  The cable company said that they would run a cable down the street and hook me up for $20, 800.00.  I mumbled something about my budget and politely declined.


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## TomS

If you think your brain is fried after digging into CNC conversion hardware start looking at all of the CAD/CAM programs on the market.  I am by no means an expert as I've just recently got into CNC.  There are many other more educated CNC experts on this forum that can give you product specific feedback.  

You specifically mentioned D2NC which is the CAM program I have.  As a CNC newbie I didn't want to be overloaded with learning CAD/CAM and an operating system.  D2NC is easy to learn.  Keep in mind it is not a full featured program and that is reflected in the $79 price.

I too looked at both Mach 3/4 and Linux.  As mentioned above I wanted to keep my learning curve somewhat less than vertical so I chose Mach3.  I didn't want to spend the time to learn Linux and after looking at the support base for Mach3 and Mach4 my decision was made.

That was my approach and I don't regret it.  I'm still looking for a 3D capable CAD program that doesn't take an engineering degree to understand.  

Tom S.


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## grepper

TomS said:


> If you think your brain is fried after digging into CNC conversion hardware start looking at all of the CAD/CAM programs on the market.


Yea, I know!  I honestly think I need to take a break, but I not sure if I can stand it.  Weeks of intensive research is soul sucking.   I just want to make stuff!  Hence my post here.  I was hoping there might be some shortcut..., some kind soul might be able to point the way.  Someone to tell me, hey look!  Here's everything you need, and it's all free! Wishful thinking, no doubt.  (Jim ended up writing his own)


TomS said:


> I too looked at both Mach 3/4 and Linux. As mentioned above I wanted to keep my learning curve somewhat less than vertical so I chose Mach3. I didn't want to spend the time to learn Linux and after looking at the support base for Mach3 and Mach4 my decision was made.


Yup.  Same here.  For me, this is a hobby.  I want to have fun!  I've done enough obscure computer stuff for one lifetime.

Maybe TurboCad/D2nc/Mach would be workable.  I played with TC some time ago. It was pretty easy and not expensive.  It has been a while though. 

I hate being so clueless.  At this point, my to-do list seems insurmountable.  I know it's not, but being a noob at anything complicated is frustrating.  In this case, well worth the effort though.


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## JimDawson

grepper said:


> Pretty multi talented of you Jim.  What language did you write it in? You are so helpful here- Do you ever sleep?



Awwww, I'm just an old millwright.  

I wrote it in VB6, V2.0 is being written in VB.net.  The comm drivers I need to use with Win 7 and up don't play well with VB6.  The new drivers run as a service rather than being accessible with an ActiveX component.  

A lot of times when you see me on here all day, I'm at the computer anyway, designing stuff or coding. When I'm out in the shop I usually log out.  I just finished a part on the mill a few minutes ago, and I'm going to bed in a few minutes (it's 22:40 now).  But I'll be back up about 05:00 or so.



grepper said:


> I was under the impression it was a true external motion controller



I was looking for a reference to that, but didn't find one.  But understand, I didn't wade in too deep, it may be a motion controller.  Maybe someone else here has some experience with them and can answer that question.  I didn't see any reference to a SDK or anything like that.



grepper said:


> Only thing is that it's cloud based and I live out in the sticks; limited to wireless 'Net access with a (gasp) 20GB limit, which I use most of every month already. 4G LTE is probably fast enough, I just wonder how data intensive Fusion is.



Once loaded, Fusion 360 will run offline. It may need a connection to get to the license server, but I'm not sure about that.  Tomorrow I'll kill the network, and see if it will still run local.  Can't kill the network tonight, right in the middle of a big data transfer.


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## grepper

I'll check into SS too.  Hopefully I didn't goof up thinking it was a motion controller.  I'll be interested to hear about 360. 

2:00am here.  Time for me to call it a night too.


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## jumps4

I have been using D2NC for years and It works well for most of my needs.
Most of the parts I make are one off runs and D2NC is great for that.
I probably have less than $300 invested in software, Mach3 d2nc and I use Emachineshop cad program to produce my dxf files.
with your coding experience you will quickly see how you can edit the code for special needs 
I have posted how I'm making parts and the software I'm using here
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/cnc-from-sketch-to-part-the-way-i-do-it.19633/
the first videos are poor , they get better after I purchased better video software.
also there is the section on parts people have made
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pictures-of-things-made-in-home-shop-cnc.32571/
Steve


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## grepper

Thanks Steve!  Emachineshop appears to be _exactly_ the type of thing I'm looking for.  Good pricing on it to.   Thanks for making those videos.  I'll check them out too!

I'm just getting started and I'm not going to pay $1500 or more for software, nor do I want to subscribe to cloud apps and have to pay $N$ every year for a subscription.  Your suggestion is just what I had in mind.

I'm also checking out Fusion 360, but for a variety of reasons I'm leery of cloud apps.

Thanks!


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## grepper

JimDawson said:


> Briefly looking through the SmoothStepper web site, it looks like all of the motion control is done on the PC rather than onboard the SmoothStepper



Jim- From the SS FAQ:

"The SmoothStepper is a high-performance external motion controller that interfaces between your PC and your CNC equipment. It is a 6-axis motion control device that accepts commands from a trajectory planner (i.e. Mach3 or Mach4) and produces a very high quality pulse train to drive stepper and servo motor drivers."
http://warp9td.com/index.php/gettingstarted/what-is-a-smoothstepper

It works with Mach:
http://blog.cnccookbook.com/2011/12...-from-hobby-class-to-industrial-grade-part-2/
"The Smoothstepper’s 4 MHz rate means it can handle that with 100,000 / 4,000,000 or 2.5% accuracy"

I'm a poor, suffering noob..., so I'll ask, this is saying what I think it is, correct?


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## Jim_Hbar

Mark -

CAD packages have a VERY steep learning curve, and if you think selecting stepper hardware sent you into the abyss, the CAD question is several orders of magnitude deeper...

If the emachine app (that Jumps shows above) will do what you need, go with that. I played with it a bit, and is way quicker to get something reasonable on the screen than a novice attempting to draw in 2d CAD.
I would advise you not to head down the 2d CAD or 3d modeling path until you absolutely need that functionality.

If you really want to peak at a real 2d CAD package, get DraftSight here.  There is a free version on that download page.
It is the 2d compliment to Solidworks - which is arguably the "standard" in 3d modeling - And it pretty much runs the same as the later flavors of ACAD.  (And I suspect it's release is what caused AutoDesk to offer Fusion360 free to none commercial users. )


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## JimDawson

I think it is a matter of semantics.  In my opinion, a motion controller does the trajectory planning.  You tell it where you want it to go, give it speed and acceleration, and tell it to go.  That puts all of the heavy lifting onto the motion controller.  Maybe something like that is actually happening with the SS.  It does look like it has a microprocessor on board.

I really need to understand the command inputs to the SS to be able to tell what it actually does.  So far, I've not seen any documentation on that.  If you have the time, see if you can find some documentation.

Unfortunately I don't have the time right now to dig into it, there is a pile of chips waiting to be made in the shop.


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## Jim_Hbar

JimDawson said:


> I think it is a matter of semantics. In my opinion, a motion controller does the trajectory planning. You tell it where you want it to go, give it speed and acceleration, and tell it to go. That puts all of the heavy lifting onto the motion controller.



:+1:

But many of the terms used on this hobby side of things aren't technically correct - Can you imagine my confusion when I first read about a "charge pump" output??? 
Now, I KNOW what a real charge pump is, what it does, how to size it, and what accessory devices are required in the circuit to use it effectively...  And I even have one on a tracked machine I own...  
But WHERE on a hobby CNC set-up would it be used??  (So I googled it - and fortunately, some people call it a watchdog!)

And don't get me started on "pulleys"!!!   Wikipedia can't even get the correct term for them correct


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## grepper

Jim H. - Yea, I totally get it re: CAD software, hence my original question.  At this point I'm not looking for big, complicated and expensive.  For getting started I'm looking for easy and inexpensive.  Just simple, getting started stuff.

Interesting that Emachineshop is basically a sales assistance tool.  I've seen those types of apps on a few different sites.  I never thought of just using them as a stand-alone for personal use.  I always figured they output some proprietary format that would only be useful for the particular company. 

At least at this point I've done enough research and learned enough to know for certain that I have no idea what I'm talking about.


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## grepper

Jim W.-

Thanks for the clarification on motion controllers.  I wonder... In the real world, for this hobby size stuff, does it matter?  I mean, for the most part people are using a parallel port!  Truly a Conestoga wagon of an interface.

There is the USB option which I'd like to avoid due to my shop (basement) layout.  I don't want to have to have hubs and repeaters, or do whatever USB over Ethernet involves.

Regardless, there are the USB options.  CNCdrive who makes the UC100 and UC300 is more specific:

http://cncdrive.com/UC100.html
http://cncdrive.com/MC/UC100 datasheet/UC100 users guide.pdf
"... *it implements linear and arc interpolation routines with trajectory planner,*
communication routines, limits and homing functions handling and it has nearly all the
functions (with some limitations) as what Mach3 supports with the LPT port driver."

I read somewhere that one of their reps said the UC300 also does trajectory planning, but it does not say so here:
http://cncdrive.com/UC300.html
http://cncdrive.com/MC/UC300 datasheet/UC300 users guide.pdf
"The UC300 motion controller overcomes these problems with removing all time critical
tasks from the control computer and Windows and executing all these tasks on inside it's
own high speed DSP control chip outside the PC."

But I wonder- In the real world, does it really matter?  Both the SS and the UC stuff would seem to be improvements over parallel which works more or less (I guess).  Since I have not used any of this stuff, I hope I'm not just babbling.


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## Jim_Hbar

Mark:

Like you, I have an aversion to doing the Linux thing - I want a CNCed mill to make things - not a hobby of CNCing a mill..  
I'm probably wrong, and just irritated a bunch of people, but that's my perception.

Just so long as the gear all works together, I don't think it makes a big difference to most end users where the trajectory math is done.
All combinations will do something better than the others - it's just a matter of where you wish to compromise..  
If you didn't want a compromise, you'd be buying a Mazak or Haas.. (but compromising your financial health and/or marriage!?)

The USB based controllers that I've investigated, UCCNC and Eding, both offer RJ45 connections in an upgraded solution, so you aren't really married to USB unless you want to be.
And when you total all the electronic boards and stuff with the software, there isn't a significant cost difference to any of the solutions.  

BTW, one thing I found reading through the UCCNC material, is that they use more on-board features in their devices with their software, than they do when interfaced with Mach3/4.


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## grepper

There appears to be a penury of Ending support in the U.S.   Maybe it's different in Canada, but here the landscape is a barren waste land.

I'm at the point where I just have to make some decisions and forge ahead.  I'm starting to feel like a foodie who awakens one morning in the Twilight Zone, only to find himself doomed to spend all eternity without food in a library full of recipe books where piles of food are plainly visible just on the other side of an invisible, yet strangely impenetrable barrier.

Like yourself, I don't want building the mill to be the beginning and end unto itself.  I want to make some chips!  Nor am I interested in endless mucking around in computer land.  Been there.  Done that.  For many years.  Now I just want tools to work well and be reliable.  Not that I'm unwilling to expend effort to get there, but the destination is my goal, not an endless journey.

Unfortunately for me, due to the way I think, it's difficult to curtail research until all possible resources on the entire Internet are completely and totally exhausted.


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## grepper

At least my needs and goals are modest ones.  I'm just looking to be able to do stuff like this:


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## Jim_Hbar

grepper said:


> There appears to be a penury of Ending support in the U.S.


Had look "penury" up.
I fully understand where you are coming from, but I've lived (and prospered) on the bleeding edge of product development, so it doesn't bother me in the least.  



grepper said:


> At least my needs and goals are modest ones. I'm just looking to be able to do stuff like this:


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## TomS

grepper said:


> Jim H. - Yea, I totally get it re: CAD software, hence my original question.  At this point I'm not looking for big, complicated and expensive.  For getting started I'm looking for easy and inexpensive.  Just simple, getting started stuff.
> 
> Interesting that Emachineshop is basically a sales assistance tool.  I've seen those types of apps on a few different sites.  I never thought of just using them as a stand-alone for personal use.  I always figured they output some proprietary format that would only be useful for the particular company.
> 
> At least at this point I've done enough research and learned enough to know for certain that I have no idea what I'm talking about.



A bit more info on eMachineShop CAD.  It can export files in DXF, STL, STEP, and IGS formats.  D2NC uses DXF and I've exported a couple of files to Fusion360 in STL format.  Haven't yet had a need for STEP or IGS but one never knows.  As Steve pointed out you can do just about any 2D and 2.5D machining using these two pieces of software.  He's also running a fourth axis.  I haven't got that far yet.

Tom S.


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## JimDawson

grepper said:


> At least my needs and goals are modest ones. I'm just looking to be able to do stuff like this:



Shouldn't be a problem.  Just hang a couple more steppers on your mill and you too can have a five axis machine  Thinking about the G-code to run that helmet makes my head hurt.


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## grepper

I downloaded eMachineShop and opened it.  That's as far as I gotten.  It opens with a simple tutorial.

Interestingly, Norton Anti Virus declared it a threat and deleted it.  I renamed it and saved it again.  This time not a problem.  I did a real quick search to see what Norton got all flustered about, but found nothing.  Really Norton?  Your great security is just name matching?  Well, huh.

eMS looks like what I'm looking for.  Starting out if I can just drill some holes, cut some circles and slots I'll be happy.  Lot to learn!  I'm sure at some point I'll want more, but for now simple and inexpensive is good.

Speaking of more, I wonder if this thing is using a parallel port for machine control?   To me it looks like they must have upgraded to USB:






I am awed by machines like that.  Think of the trajectory planning in that that thing!  How would you even begin to code something like that?  The coordination of axis control is stunning. Amazing.  Impressive.  Oh, it can do it with titanium too.  It's beautiful!


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## JimDawson

One possibility that I have avoided mentioning in this discussion is going with a real motion controller.  The front end cost is an order of magnitude greater than the hobby class hardware, but there are a number of advantages, not the least of which is the feature expandability.  Today you could run Mach3 and open loop steppers, and later upgrade to a full blown servo system and higher end CNC software without changing the controller.  This is the way my router started out.  It used Mach3, open loop steppers and a Galil motion controller.  All I did was add encoders, and wrote the software to run it.  The router is still running steppers in a closed loop. Writing CNC software is optional, Mach3 will run a closed loop system just fine, and is fully compatible with Galil motion controllers.


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## jbolt

Also look at the PMDX controllers. http://www.pmdx.com/ 

Awesome customer support.


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## grepper

So, the *P**MDX-424 motion control pulse engine, *is basically like the SmoothStepper.  Right?  I'm not seeing saying that is has trajectory planner on-board.

Awesome support always goes a long way...


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## grepper

So I gave eMachineShop a quick once over.  Very super simple, albeit crude, cute little app.  No layers, brushes or any of extensive tool base that I'm use to in PhotoShop.  Just a lightweight, quick little tool with a nifty ruler for quick measurements and a charming little well behaved 3D view to boot.  Really easy to make holes and thread them, and it understands object grouping, and has some radius tools, etc.

Seems like every time I get out the crane, haul up PhotoShop and try to do anything complicated like raster edge detection, object selection, layer blending, etc., I have to refer to the help.  Something I want to avoid getting started with CNC.

I can see right away where that simplicity will be limiting, but for right now it's about what I am looking for.  Quick, simple , lightweight and FREE!  Should be perfect for my first chips!  I'll get D2nc and give it a try.  Thanks for the suggestion Jumps4 (Steve)!

Any decent, FREE CAM suggestions?


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## JimDawson

OK, I had a chance to check if Fusion 360 would run off line.  Yes it does, so the licence is stored on the local machine.  I also found that it runs faster when not online.

Fusion 360 has a comprehensive CAM function built in and the whole package is FREE

As an alternative, you might look at CamBam, not free, but pretty inexpensive @ $150


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## grepper

Thank you for checking out that it runs off-line.  I watched some vids about it.  What a nice, complete package.  Even has a simulator.  I'll no doubt use that once I get going.

I've been checking out other low cost/free stuff.  Nothing seems to compare.


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## grepper

This speaks to using Fusion 360 off-line.  Stuff like it needs to connect to the license server every two weeks.
https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/design-validate-document/run-fusion-360-without-internet/td-p/5616683


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## JimDawson

Great find!    Now you know more about it than I do.


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## mmprestine

If you want a very good true standalone motion controller dynomotion Kflop is probably what you are looking for.  Many cnc conversions done with it.

Otherwise if youre goal is cheap check out http://smoothieware.org/ or https://github.com/grbl/grbl with an arduino.


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## Billh50

I am looking at converting my mini lathe to cnc. Being on a tight budget, is anyone familiar with any of the free  software posted at this link.

http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCFreeCNCSoftware.html


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## GLCarlson

grepper said:


> I’m hoping for an assist by pointing me in the right direction for software to get me started in designing simple parts.  \



Cut2D Desk from Vectric. 150 bucks, will take input from other CAD programs,  simple to run, posts for any machine you can name- or roll your own, they have a guide. It's not free like Fusion. It IS dead easy to use. Really written for the CNC router community, but works just fine on my Tormach (either Mach 3 or Pathpilot). Excellent support from Vectric. Free trial (even generates a few posts from the tutorial) so you can check out operation/compatibility with your machine, but the trial won't post anything but their examples. No 4th axis, but available if you upgrade to the Pro version.

I've used a handful of other much more expensive/more features, but this one is my go-to for cutting something that's a beyond the Mach/Newfangled/Pathpilot conversational level but doesn't warrant hours using Sprut/Fusion/Autocad etc. Quick, easy, works.


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## SEK_22Hornet

At work I use DesignCAD 3d Max and BobCAD/CAM to program a 2.5d router. I hate the process - draw the part, export the DXF, import, transform, add profiles, then basically start all over if you have to change something. I'm doing some pretty simple stuff, so it works. One piece of CAD / CAM software you might check out isn't free but looks interesting for the $180 price tag is from Magic Systems (download the trial and get on their mailing list - you will get discount offers)  It adds a CAM program into DesignCAD. The biggest advantage I see is that you can start out drawing in 2d, program parts and be making parts pretty quick. It will also do 3d  when you want to go that direction. http://www.contourcam.com/usa/viewitem.php?productid=3  . I personally am learning Fusion 360 for my milling machine. I don't have an issue with it being cloud based, at least not at this time.   Concerning the controller side of things -  you might check out the CNC USB controller from Planet CNC. They have usb and ethernet versions, I believe.  The software will convert DXF directly to G code, also. Download the software and play with it. It does require their own hardware to control the stepper drives. I'm curious about the cable length comment - you will need your PC right next to your machine, so i can't imagine a situation where cable length would be an issue in a hobby setting. If that won't work for what you have now, maybe you need to consider picking up a pc to dedicate to the CNC machine.


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## grepper

I have 2 benches, one directly opposite (withing reach) the other.  I can put a stool between the two, spin the seat and reach either one.  I hate running wire on the floor.  I could go from the bench to ceiling, or off the far end of one bench where I don't walk then over to the other... stuff like that.  It would be pushing the 15' or so USB length limit.

I have the mini mill and a mini lathe one the same bench.  Not much room left over.  Maybe keeping both on the same bench is just not going to pan out.  Maybe turning my head to check out the computer whilst milling won't pan out.

Do I need to have the computer right next to the mill?  Do you stare at lines of code going by while the mill is running?  I'm just trying to cover my butt so I don't make bad hardware choices.

The sad fact is that I don't know.  I have not done it yet-  just finalizing my conversion equipment choices.  I welcome anyone with experience offering info, advice and suggestions!  I'm a poor suffering noob.


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## JimDawson

SEK_22Hornet said:


> I'm curious about the cable length comment - you will need your PC right next to your machine, so i can't imagine a situation where cable length would be an issue in a hobby setting. If that won't work for what you have now, maybe you need to consider picking up a pc to dedicate to the CNC machine.



@SEK_22Hornet makes a really good point here, I can't imagine a situation where the computer would be remote from the machine.

EDIT:  We were typing at the same time.

The normal position is that the monitor is mounted to the right of the ram on a mill, at about eye level when standing in front of the machine.  Many times you need to look back and forth between the work and the monitor when setting up a part.  I think it would be very difficult to have the the monitor/keyboard/mouse not available when setting up.  Many times I have wished that I could have a monitor right next to the tool bit, not practical of course, but it would be cool.  Hmmmmm, maybe Google glasses or some other VR type system.


----------



## grepper

Jim D.- Definitely not remote with a video camera for remote viewing. (See above).   Now that I think about it, having it right next to the machine is probably necessary for reading axis tool location on the screen.  I probably just need to rearrange things in my limited room basement shop.  Didn't think that one through very well.


----------



## Al-Hala

Grepper:
Apologies in advance for sounding like a sales representative, but it is just enthusiasm.

*Motion Controller*
I went through the same situation a few years ago, and was not entirely convinced in the Smoothstepper, really disliked the whole real-time issue with MACH3. I liked some of the ideas of LinuxCNC and the MESA IO boards, but wanted a more plug and play Windows solution. Enter Dynomotion.

I will also heartily endorse the Dynomotion KFLOP and KSTEP products for motion control.  The KFLOP has all the execution work being done on the hardware, with USB in an Windows environment back to the PC for G-code and initial loading of the setup. It can run with either MACH3 front end (via a .dll plug-in) or with the included KmotionCNC.

Although not recommended (more for the confusion it seems to cause than any other reason) you can actually offload operational G-Code directly into the KFLOP, and have it run headless upon bootup (handy for automation tasks).

Here is the software and hardware map: http://dynomotion.com/software.html  and a page dedicated to the trajectory planner http://dynomotion.com/Help/KMotionCNC/TrajectoryPlanner.htm

With your background in programming, the fact it uses the C language to program will possibly be a boon (a bit outside of the scope, but people have successfully built their own fork of the KmotionCNC application as well, should you develop the itch to customize it).

It DOES have a bit of a learning curve (although you seem used to that by now; I sympathize) combined with the immense flexibility making a bewildering amount of settings possible, but is very powerful.

They have made strides in cleaning up their website and fragmented documentation (which has always struck me as their weakest point, not uncommon with engineering firms). Dozens of common use example code snippets are on the website and included with the downloads, they have senior staff regularly posting on their Yahoo! (ugh) forum, a dedicated forum on CNCzone, and reasonable update periods in their firmware and software. People have asked for special or upcoming features and they have often released out-of-band patches to accommodate.

The combination of the two boards, along with some level shifting logic (a lot of the inputs are 3.3V, only a few are 5V tolerant) was all I needed hook up a four axis stepper machine, allow multiple limit and home switches, a hardwired pendant, e-stops, encoders and other items.  No need for additional break out boards from third party vendors.

Here is an excellent example featuring probing: by JerbroCNC, along with his code to do so:





)

*Software: CAD,CAM,G-Code, Feeds and Speeds*
On the software side, it depends on your personal needs. There is a bewildering array out there, and a Venn diagram of them all does not have much overlap. Just like when purchasing a machine, list your needs (2D, 2.5D, 3D, Parametric vs. artistic) and narrow down the choices.

Most of my work is 2D or 2.5D, so I get away with Draftsight for CAD (made by the makers of Solidworks, and free; uses AUTOCAD syntax and commands), Cut2D for CAM (Ventric) with post processor options (the post processor is a dialect converter for the various variants of G-Code). Fusion360 and OnShape were only in development when I made the purchase, but I intend to investigate Fusion360 as a next-stage soon (Onshape made a surprising move with their pricing to disadvantage hobbyists). As previously stated, the on-line aspect needs consideration; there has been some interesting conversations on the various forums and enthusiast sites on the topic.

My need for feeds and speeds are taken care of by G-Wizard; it is a renewal based for-pay program, but for hobby use, remains operational for spindle power under 1HP without renewal (there are other options for lifetime subscription).  I broke about $100 in cheap tooling (good tip that; do not buy high end when starting out *grin*) before I finally gave in and purchased it. Other software calculators exist (FS wizard comes to mind). I find Bob Warfield (who created the software) and his site a good source for information; he recently did comparisons and polls on the major CAD and CAM software in use.

One very machinist nerd thing I should point out: the KFLOP uses the basic NIST G-code Interpreter (http://dynomotion.com/Help/GCodeScreen/EMC_Handbook/node45.html) and as such, does not have some of the extended codes LinuxCNC or some of the other dialects have. It is extensible, should the user have the skills to do so (which is not myself). It has not cause me any great difficulty, but did have me adjusting some of the original example codes I was borrowing for LinuxCNC.


----------



## swatson144

A couple things I didn't see mentioned. Meshcam to go with Emachineshop.  Emachine shop will export .stl and meshcam does a great job of producing code from STL. for milling. 

When I started running the CNC machines at work (fanuc OT compatible) I used the Emachineshop/meshcam combo to avoid HAVING to do it in Master cam which the company pays for. I licenced meshcam with my own money. 

When we started doing more turning and of more complex forms I looked into BobCad/CAM and ended up buying it with my own money while it was on sale over Christmas holidays. The sale was for mill3 pro with one addon (I got turning) for one low price. It's pretty simple to use and will give the choice of single moves or canned cycles, which is great for our low memory machines.

Steve


----------



## grepper

Thanks for that, Al-Hala!  That might even be more annoying than Bill H. and his MX4660 stuff.   Every time I start to decide on something...

Well, huh... 

$199 = KSTEP 4-Axis Microstepper Amplifier for KFLOP
http://dynomotion.com/KStep.html

$249 = KFLOP motion controller
http://dynomotion.com/KFLOP.html

That is _exactly_ the same cost as the Gecko G450 + SmoothStepper combo.  From a cursory look-see, it appears to be much more of a motion controller!

But... But... Plus free controller software?  I don't need $175 - $200 for Mach3/4?  Is it all too good to be true, or is there some devil hiding in the details? 

This thing is 5A @ 48V Max, and the Gecko is 3.5A @48V.  The KFLOP is better.

I'm going to have to check this out.    There is no end to this, is there?


----------



## grepper

Al-Hala said:


> It DOES have a bit of a learning curve (although you seem used to that by now; I sympathize) combined with the immense flexibility making a bewildering amount of settings possible, but is very powerful.



Yup.


----------



## Al-Hala

Oh, trust me. Annoying I do well 

Nope; no end at all. Just like buying electronics, always something newer and (mostly) cheaper. Just have to pick a time and go.

Downsides... Well, you seem to be a kindred spirit in the obsessive research department, heh. I will save you some time, and list what I perceive them as.

*Dynomotion Documentation*
This used to be my biggest pet peeve. The data is there, but due to the configuration complexity of the devices, the number of choices is overwhelming. I have done documentation and manual production work in the past, so I certainly can sympathize how difficult and time consuming it is to produce it for a dedicated device. Add to that the (general) engineer reluctance to document and provide examples, couple that with the need to produce it for all the various permutations, and NOPE factor quickly rises to exponential notation levels. Just a taste: KFLOP supports Serial, ModBUS, USB, Steppers (closed and open loop), Servos, tachometers, encoders, tying most Inputs to different hardware Outputs, multiplexing data, several flavors of drive output.

I found it very daunting at the start. Again, Dynomotion has made a concerted effort to streamline and make finding information easier. They have somewhat recently set up a Wiki, and it is being populated with information. The website links and pages are being streamlined and made less difficult to locate information. I must stress the example programs were always there, as was the documentation, but I always compared finding it akin to a knowledgeable software programmer looking up a function in an index or hardware engineering looking up the specifications for a component, compared to that of a beginner trying to tell the difference between a procedural and a object oriented language... There was a largish learning curve.

*C Programming*
This would be my second largest. From the Dynomotion support site: http://dynomotion.com/Support.html
_

Programming in C 
To use our products you will need to program at least a little bit in C. If you are new to programming there are many resources to help you in this rewarding endeavor. There has been a lot of discussion recently about how everyone should learn how to program and we don't disagree with this idea. Programming is a powerful enabler in general, and this is especially true in combination with our products. _


This scares a lot of people initially. Something like Mach3 and Smoothstepper, the basic parameters are generally set for you. Set Mach3 inputs and outputs, kernel speed, counts per inch, do some fine tuning, and you are away. With KFLOP, all of that (and more is open to adjust).

The controller is programmed upon startup with what is usually called the init.c program. This contains all the settings needed: # axis enabled, what IO to use, what to monitor, you name it. Unless you have embedded it in the KFLOP, this is required to be opened, compiled, and downloaded once upon each startup.  It sound tedious, but it is really clicking one icon. My machine boots, Kmotion opens, displaying the last used init.c, and I select the combination icon and in a split second, the machine is live.

Getting to that stage requires, at the minimum, opening the example program and modifying it to your needs. Here is a link to the sample file for a 3 axis machine running a KFLOP and KSTEP (I could not find the Dynomotion hosted variant; this will d0):

https://github.com/parhansson/KMotionX/blob/master/C Programs/KStep/InitKStep3AxisNoDisable.c

There are 217 lines in the file, the first 180 are all parameters for the 3 axis (about 34 lines per axis). ONCE these values have to be looked at and set (often, you can leave the majority the way they are). This file, as is, will program the KSTEP drives and execute G-Code. It does not have any code for E-Stops, pendants, encoders, limit switches, etc.

I have past programming experience, but it is with PHP, BASIC, PYTHON, not C. It took a few moments, but it was not that difficult. Most of it was of the Copy-and-paste-Frankenstein method. When I wanted to add the hardwired pendant, I eventually found similar functionality and adapted the code (their smooth MPG example (Multi Pulse Generator). I only had to conceive the fall-through logic tree for the axis selector and range (my pendant did not have an enable to conveniently shut off the axis control; hindsight) and select the INPUT and OUTPUT ranges I was using; the rest of the code is theirs.

// Example Init program that includes "smooth" MPG motion example
// which makes use of the exponential motion command.
#define SELECTX 24        // KFLOP JP4, Pin 15 (I/O 24):
#define SELECTY 17        // KFLOP JP4, Pin 06 (I/O 17):
#define SELECTZ 19        // KFLOP JP4, Pin 10 (I/O 19):
#define SELECT4 21        // KFLOP JP4, Pin 12 (I/O 21):

#define FACTOR1 23        // KFLOP JP4, Pin 14 (I/O 23):
#define FACTOR10 25        // KFLOP JP4, Pin 16 (I/O 25):
#define FACTOR100 26    // KFLOP JP6, Pin 05 (I/O 26):

#define QA 16    // KFLOP JP4, Pin 5 (I/O 16): define to which IO bits the AB signals are connected; I've assumed A+ and B+
#define QB 18    // KFLOP JP4, Pin 7 (I/O 18):
#define COUNTS_PER_MM 100.0

// Pendant reading code
// convert quadrature to 2 bit binary
//BitA = ReadBit(QA); 
//PosNoWrap = (ReadBit(QB) ^ BitA) | (BitA<<1);
   BitA = ReadBit(QB); 
   PosNoWrap = (ReadBit(QA) ^ BitA) | (BitA<<1);

// Diff between expected position based on average of two prev deltas
// and position with no wraps.  (Keep as X2 to avoid division by 2)
    DiffX2 = 2*(Pos-PosNoWrap) + (Change2+Change1);

// Calc quadrature wraparounds to bring Diff nearest zero
// offset by 128 wraps to avoid requiring floor()
     wraps = ((DiffX2+1028)>>3)-128;

// factor in the quadrature wraparounds
        NewPos = PosNoWrap + (wraps<<2);
        Change2 = Change1;
        Change1 = NewPos - Pos;
        Pos = NewPos;

// Determine which Axis is selected; Logic tree. If none are selected, disable pendant MPG control, as the unit is in the OFF position
// Pendant purchased did not have a ENABLE switch, no free conductors to install one; this will work fine to function as an ersatz one.
        if (ReadBit(SELECTX))  // is x selected?
            Axis=0;    //X axis in my setup
        else if (ReadBit(SELECTY))  // is y selected?
            Axis=1;    //Y Axis in my setup
        else if (ReadBit(SELECTZ))  // is z selected?
            Axis=2;    //Z axis in my setup
        else if (ReadBit(SELECT4))  // is 4th axis selected?
            Axis=3;    //A axis in my setup
        else
            Change1 = 0; // Disable Pendant, since OFF is selected (none of the above resolve to TRUE)
            Factor = 0;  // Force the change factor off (13 Nov 2015)

// Determine which multiplier is selected; unlike above, must be one of the three positions by hardware design          
// Factor numbers by design, how much to move per MPG pulse
        if (ReadBit(FACTOR1))  // is X1 selected?
            Factor = 1;
        else if (ReadBit(FACTOR10))  // is X10 selected?
            Factor = 10;
        else if (ReadBit(FACTOR100))  // is X100 selected?
            Factor =15;
        }
}  

For my case, it was certainly worth the mild pain to gain the flexibility.

I would suggest downloading the software, and having a look. There is no limitations or time limit (since it needs the KFLOP) but you can load in C code and have a look at Kmotion (C code interface), and KmotionCNC (G-Code interface). All of the sample C code files are included.

*KSTEP vs Gecko*
Tom Kerekes (Dynomotion head public figure) has publicly stated that he feels the KSTEP is an excellent price point device: lessened wiring, works plug and play with KFLOP, and covers most peoples needs. Having said that, he has stated the Gecko drive in some ways is superior.
*
Individual Drives Vs. All-In-One*
This one I have some personal experience with: the KSTEP has all four axis on one board. Blow one of those out, and you are left with three choices: repair it yourself, send the board back for repair, buy another. With the individual Gecko drives, you still have an operational machine while you decide what to do with the blown drive. On the other hand, the Leadshine or Gecko all-in-ones leave you in the same boat. Just do not experiment with unknown steppers (my case) or have loose wiring (others) and no issues.
*Current Limits*
The KSTEP sets the stepper current limits in discrete increments. My chosen motors are slightly underpowered given the available jumper settings, but considering the motors were oversized to begin with...

*Microstepping*
The KSTEP is permanently set at 16x microstepping, and some feel you lose too much positional accuracy going over 8x or so; in reality, the drive is multi-mode. Like Gecko, switches over at higher speeds from pure microstepping. I have the LMS 3960 mill (similar to yours but at the time the air spring was extra), and any lost accuracy is due to the mill, the slight lash in the couplers, the stiction of the ways, ,the 0.200 inch lead Thompson ballscrews long before the steppers are the issue.

*Hardware Configuration*
If you do anything outside of the more-or-less-standard configuration, you might find yourself having to do some modifications. For example. Out of the box, the KFLOP and KSTEP allow control of up to 8 steppers (dual drive 4 axis) and up to 8 encoders. The problem is that the interface connector between the KFLOP and KSTEP uses the same pins as the second set of encoder lines.

If I (eventually) get around to putting my CUI encoders on the steppers with linear encoders, I will have to custom make a ribbon cable, and re-locate some of the inputs (since they multiplex over the same connector). This really is not a problem, since dual loop control is indeed possible, but rarely done on this size of mill. Tom Kerekes has asked for people to send him examples a couple of times; I have not seen anyone take him up on it yet.

Really, just comes down to prior planning prevents (tinkle) poor performance. The more things I feel like hanging on, the more it looks likely to get one of the other input output boards they offer. Tom has had people frequently run a KFLOP with two KSTEPS; in fact, his recent demo robot is doing so.

*Dynomotion's 6-Axis Cable-Driven Demonstration Robot*





Heh; forgot about this: *KFLOP running from Raspberry Pi *(not something I am interest in, but does show what is possible; note: this is done by others than Dynomotion, so support is very limited)





*Pendants and E-Stop*
little more work here, as you should do a hardwire interface. With MACH3, people use USB pendants, which takes away the real-time element. real-time is something I agree with, since I do not want the computer interfering with control. I have three e-stops: the KmotionCNC software abort (shuts down the KSTEP enable via USB communication to the device), pendant hardwired switch and another on the machine box; the last two physically remove drive from a relay, simultaneously removing spindle power and the drive power to the KSTEP. Barring fused relay contacts, the machine is stopping. In addition, hitting the E-Stop physical button also drives an input low, which is monitored by the code I put in the KFLOP init.c, which additionally triggers the enable.

*Motion Buffer*
Since the KFLOP and KSTEP are the real controllers, the box sends out data in advance; pull the USB connection, and the machine will still operate until the buffer empties. Some consider this an issue.

*KMotionCNC vs MACH3*
Mach3 wins, for sheer amount of screens and configurations. KMotionCNC is very minimalist. Now, considering Mach3 works just fine with the KFLOP using the Dynomotion authored plug-in, it is not a big issue. KmotionCNC does the job for me, allows up to 7 concurrent programs to run, allows manual data input, jogging (even if the screen layout is somewhat...lacking). Lathe functionality is being developed and conversational programming is not there (I use G-Wizard for that, the rare time I cannot type it in or copy a previous example and alter it).

With the release of MACH4, the somewhat lukewarm reception it is getting from plug-in developers, well, that is another story.


----------



## Al-Hala

That is an excellent example of how they are improving their documentation. Such videos did not exist when I started with my projects. I will have to search out and bookmark those; it will save me some typing


----------



## grepper

Unfortunately I'm not a C programmer either.  I came along before C was really popular.  I've done VBasic, Fortran, Cobol, IBM 360 &  MS assembler, and spent the last four years or so in MS-TSQL land doing database stuff.  But I'm sure that with some sample snippets that I could pull off the simple config required.

I started this a few weeks ago with mind towards a hobby- making simple useful parts and things that might pair well with my helicopter hobby.  My first idea was to make this as simple and PnP as possible, and it still is.  I've kind of reached my research  tolerance and want to get on with it.  Not sure if I want to have to code interfaces, or spend hours in configuration land, that sort of thing. 

It's all so tempting though!


----------



## Al-Hala

grepper said:


> Unfortunately I'm not a C programmer either.  I came along before C was really popular.  I've done VBasic, Fortran, Cobol, IBM 360 &  MS assembler, and spent the last four years or so in MS-TSQL land doing database stuff.  But I'm sure that with some sample snippets that I could pull off the simple config required.
> 
> I started this a few weeks ago with mind towards a hobby- making simple useful parts and things that might pair well with my helicopter hobby.  My first idea was to make this as simple and PnP as possible, and it still is.  I've kind of reached my research  tolerance and want to get on with it.  Not sure if I want to have to code interfaces, or spend hours in configuration land, that sort of thing.
> 
> It's all so tempting though!



You have my sympathies with VBasic *shudder*. As to the rest, all far before my time; my virtual hat off to you, sir *salutes*!

Completely understandable. I have been dealing with some geometry errors in the mill and think I am a closet masochist; I just completed 29 hours of scraping to get the 5 thousandths of an inch banana shape out of the table, and there is plenty more to go correcting the rest of the geometry. I have lost count of how many hours I have spent researching scraping, geometry and straightening gibs, on top of everything else.

I will not be picking up interface programming anytime soon  Especially with my fiance recently reminding me I have a family as well; I KNEW I had forgotten something...

My own experience with tuning as I recall was about ten minutes getting the unit to run when first set up (entering the basics, Step Dir, which IO), 30 more minutes tweaking the aforementioned provided file, and likely three more hours finalizing it into the current state. I have not touched it since Nov of last year. The only interface function planned is to customize one of the user buttons for the aforementioned probe code, whenever I get around to it.

I will leave you with a couple of posts regarding discussions of the programming requirements and their successes from others on the CNCzone Dynomotion sub-forum; there is even one by Tom Kerekes himself mentioning there are indeed more turn-key systems than theirs out there. Again, I would recommend downloading the software and taking a look through the configuration files, see if it is a good fit for you.


C Programming (2015)
Tom Kerekes asked about KFLOP vs. PlanetCNC
More on peoples opinions MACH vs KFLOP


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## grepper

Al-Hala- Thanks so much for putting all that together!  It was very informative, and the Kmotion stuff is interesting and tempting. 

At this point my to-do list has grown exponentially and amazingly quickly!  I still need to finalize part selection and convert the mill.  Then decide on software and learn how to use it.  I also have a set of DRO's waiting to be installed for manual operation too.  Hmmm..., Cut2D looks interesting.

It's endless!  And then there's that pesky other thing that keeps getting in the way...



Al-Hala said:


> Especially with my fiance recently reminding me I have a family as well; I KNEW I had forgotten something...



  Yea, that other thing...  Having to somehow squeeze in actually having a life.


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## SEK_22Hornet

I agree that you will want the monitor close to the machine especially for setup,  and to see any error messages or prompts that come up during operation. You also need to be able to control the software for unexpected situations, especially in initial runs. One other suggestion - incorporate a hardware E-stop into your design that cuts power to the spindle and axis motion instantly - something as simple as a relay with a normally close crash switch that simply hitting with your hand or anything else, drops the relay out, cutting the power supply to the drives and spindle would work. Do not try to rely on electronics and software to stop the machine in a true emergency. This switch needs to be at the machine. Something like this - http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-NC-Emerg...387012?hash=item4aea4b5b44:g:288AAOSwrklVWc7k would be fine.


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## grepper

Roger that, 22Hornet.  Wilco. Sage advice.

Now that I'm sticking the computer next to the mill, I'm reconsidering the UC-100.  Oddly, it's less costly than the SmoothStepper and seems to be more of a real motion controller.  Folks who replied here to one of my posts say it works well.

Sooner or later I'll actually have to order something.


----------



## Al-Hala

grepper said:


> Al-Hala- Thanks so much for putting all that together!  It was very informative, and the Kmotion stuff is interesting and tempting.
> 
> At this point my to-do list has grown exponentially and amazingly quickly!  I still need to finalize part selection and convert the mill.  Then decide on software and learn how to use it.  I also have a set of DRO's waiting to be installed for manual operation too.  Hmmm..., Cut2D looks interesting.
> 
> It's endless!  And then there's that pesky other thing that keeps getting in the way...
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, that other thing...  Having to somehow squeeze in actually having a life.



You are welcome; I am glad I could be of some help. As others have pointed out (along with a good summation of the product), you can download a trial of Cut2D and play; I found it more useful after I had performed some manual work, as I had a better frame of reference.

Most of the motion controller screens should have DRO readout on them, but it is based on commanded movement, not actual. You will be ahead with the direct readouts.

Your DRO units might also be useful for linear encoder purposes down the proverbial road (I will defer opening that particular can of wildlife for the moment), providing they are not the digital caliper-capacitor type; most of those seem to have a very slow refresh rate (10 to 24 Hz has been cited in the most recent thread I am following) which puts a considerable upper restriction on the higher feed rates possible.  When you are bored, check out http://www.yuriystoys.com/, which is an Open Source based wireless DRO based around Android and a scale controller.

As to my other responsibilities, mine is away for a concert in another city, so it is time to empty that midnight oil pot *cackles maniacally*.


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## JimDawson

Al-Hala said:


> Your DRO units might also be useful for linear encoder purposes down the proverbial road



:+1:

If your DRO scales have a quadrature encoder output (most modern ones do), the Kflop would be a perfect mate to them.  This allows you to ''close the loop'' and put the encoder on the load (table).  It doesn't get any better than that.  This still allows you to read the position using the DRO screen on the CNC software when in manual mode.



Al-Hala said:


> You have my sympathies with VBasic *shudder*.



While I admit that VB is somewhat limited, there are workarounds for most of it's limitations.  I have done a number of ''impossible'' things with VB.


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## mmprestine

Well if you want really cheap and just want to get something to test your system with I just had this video pop up in my youtube subs.






Get this from banggood or aliexpress and buy a cheap driver board and your off with less than $200 bucks.  The controller actually seems to be pretty well made.  I do embedded stuff on the STM32f4 processor in this setup on a daily basis and they are great super powerful controllers.

Anyway check it out.


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## mmprestine

I should mention that I am a LinuxCNC user and it is truly the best low cost system out there.  Get a geko540, breakout board, PC and Mesa board and never look back.  I use the gmocappy screen set and it is very nice.  YOU would be crazy to not investigate it further!  On a production level Tormach used to sell machines with Mach3 and have tons of issues, they have converted over to LinuxCNC (Pathpilot, you can also request a copy for free as the interface is very nice) and everyone could have not been happier.  LinuxCNC is a true professional level CNC controller.

You could go with the Mesa 7I92 Ethernet Anything I/O card ($89) and then run a Ethernet patch cable over head to the bench from your laptop or what ever you have running LinuxCNC.

Edit - Another great multi axis board is the MX3660.

http://www.automationtechnologiesin...p-based-digital-stepper-drive-max-60-vdc-6-0a


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## grepper

I've been looking around at software.  Fumbled upon DesignSpark Mechanical.  It's free!  Registration is required for download.  They are transparent about registration- free software- they want to send you product info.  It is designed by RS Components/Allied Electronics.  I use to drool over the Allied catalog when I was a kid.  It seems to be amazingly complete, with add-on and libraries, etc., and well supported.  I downloaded it without issue, and it's up and running.  That's as far as I've gotten.

If anyone has used this, let us know!

http://www.rs-online.com/designspark/electronics/eng/page/mechanical


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## Al-Hala

mmprestine said:


> Well if you want really cheap and just want to get something to test your system with I just had this video pop up in my youtube subs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get this from banggood or aliexpress and buy a cheap driver board and your off with less than $200 bucks.  The controller actually seems to be pretty well made.  I do embedded stuff on the STM32f4 processor in this setup on a daily basis and they are great super powerful controllers.
> 
> Anyway check it out.



That is intriguing.  I have always been very leery of aliexpress or similar; no personal basis, but I just have the feeling I would be sticking my identity-slash-credit card into the proverbial shredder. Have you had any experience with such you could share with me?


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## mmprestine

I have bought many things (30+) from Banggood, they use paypal.  It is very safe and I have never had any issues, if I did paypal has my back.  Anyway delivery is usually 3-5 days when I order. 

Never used aliexpress but plan too when I buy my DRO for the larger lathe and mill.



Al-Hala said:


> That is intriguing.  I have always been very leery of aliexpress or similar; no personal basis, but I just have the feeling I would be sticking my identity-slash-credit card into the proverbial shredder. Have you had any experience with such you could share with me?


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## mmprestine

Here is the Banggood CNC controller link

http://www.banggood.com/50KHZ-CNC-4...ng-Machine-Control-System-Card-p-1021134.html

manual attached


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## Al-Hala

mmprestine said:


> I should mention that I am a LinuxCNC user and it is truly the best low cost system out there.  Get a geko540, breakout board, PC and Mesa board and never look back.  I use the gmocappy screen set and it is very nice.  YOU would be crazy to not investigate it further!  On a production level Tormach used to sell machines with Mach3 and have tons of issues, they have converted over to LinuxCNC (Pathpilot, you can also request a copy for free as the interface is very nice) and everyone could have not been happier.  LinuxCNC is a true professional level CNC controller.
> 
> You could go with the Mesa 7I92 Ethernet Anything I/O card ($89) and then run a Ethernet patch cable over head to the bench from your laptop or what ever you have running LinuxCNC.
> 
> Edit - Another great multi axis board is the MX3660.
> 
> http://www.automationtechnologiesin...p-based-digital-stepper-drive-max-60-vdc-6-0a



Tormach certainly made a good choice in something they had more control over, given their past history with MACH and the perceived future; in the hobby sphere, a recent (2012) survey had MACH3 and LinuxCNC eating a large portion of the pie:
CNCCookbook Controller Survey.

However, if I recall correctly, they paid or contributed for the development, and at the moment, are not allowing it on non Tormach machines:
Pathpilot on Non-Tormach Machines

This would make sense if they financed the development as a value-add to their machines.

Edit: here is more discussion on it from CNCZone: (relevant posted below):

_The LGPL allows linking open source libraries and compiling with proprietary code, and not releasing the proprietary code. Tormach has been very above board, including hosting a "summit" of some of the leaders of the LinuxCNC community to discuss development and licensing requirements. I think we have already seen the policy: PP will be offered to Tormach customers as proprietary software, any modifications/improvements to the LinuxCNC core components will be released to the linuxCNC community and available to everyone as a free download as part of normal LinuxCNC releases._


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## Al-Hala

mmprestine said:


> I have bought many things (30+) from Banggood, they use paypal.  It is very safe and I have never had any issues, if I did paypal has my back.  Anyway delivery is usually 3-5 days when I order.
> 
> Never used aliexpress but plan too when I buy my DRO for the larger lathe and mill.



Excellent news! I always prefer first-hand to internet research.


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## mmprestine

Tormach developed the new trajectory planner used in LinuxCNC version 2.7 and up.  This was a huge step up.  They also developed their screens that are what is truly PathPilot as the rest is just LinuxCNC.  I run LinuxCNC version 2.8~ with gmocappy screens becuase I am to cheap to pay the $30 to Tormach for the PathPilot cd.  It is open source code so they cannot block you from it but they can charge you for the the media they send it out on.    I have been using LinuxCNC since 2005, was EMC2 but someone chased them to court over name rights.  It is very stable, run program make dinner eat and then check part.

http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=35246


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