# Work Shop Talk - 3 in 1 shear brake roller simple mod



## Jim Dobson (Jul 9, 2019)

Work Shop Talk - 3 in 1 shear brake roller simple mod to make it much more simple to cut squarely.


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## machPete99 (Jul 9, 2019)

Does anyone have one of these 3-in-1 machines and find it useful? I like the idea, but have heard some horror stories on the quality of these things...


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## C-Bag (Jul 9, 2019)

I have had a HF 30" 3n1 for 3yrs+ and have found it very useful. But mine was bought in '98 and stored on the original pallet never used before I bought it. Nothing was adjusted and it still was packed in cosmoline so as you always have to do I took it apart, cleaned it, scraped off the paint where it shouldn't have it like on the sliding surfaces and adjusted it up. Which the "manual" doesn't describe in detail. 

So as with all things HF if you are a good repairman, if it was decently made without casting flaws and was not owned previously by somebody with no clue or skills and used it improperly I find my 3n1 handy. And lightyears ahead of tin snips and putting stuff in a vise and beating it with a hammer. 18ga and thinner which it was made for it does a nice job. But it was not made for cutting or forming thicker stuff and one of the must have's for the larger machine than Jim's is a handle for both sides so you put even pressure on both sides of the machine when pulling it through. Mine came with two handles. Mine also came with a full size square stop already. It's not as good as a dedicated stomp shear, brake and slip roll. But it cost me 1/10 of what those 3 dedicated machines cost and takes less than 1/4 room they'd take up. 

The problem with horror stories they often get repeated by folks who have no actual experience with something and our brains are funny. One bad review has more weight that hundreds of good reviews. But there is no doubt there is a percentage of all Chinese machines that have problems. But the trick is understanding what's bad and operator error. My shop is full of used HF machines bought cheap from guys who couldn't get them to work and I fixed them and or modded them to work as intended. YMMV.


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## Ken from ontario (Jul 9, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> The problem with horror stories they often get repeated by folks who have no actual experience with something and our brains are funny. One bad review has more weight that hundreds of good reviews. But there is no doubt there is a percentage of all Chinese machines that have problems. But the trick is understanding what's bad and operator error. My shop is full of used HF machines bought cheap from guys who couldn't get them to work and I fixed them and or modded them to work as intended. YMMV.


Agreed 100%, what makes an operator a bad operator is their inability to recognize the tool/machines' limitations and go beyond what was designed for. that 3-in 1 shear/slip roll/ brake is a perfect answer for a small shop or limited work space. 
I would love to own a small manual press brake, and although I don't have much use for a slip roll machine but if I find a deal, I'll buy it in a heartbeat.
Just bought a 12" plate shear after wanting one for years, these tool do not need to be used everyday to justify their cost, all it takes is those special occasions/projects when they are the right tool to use, that's when you'll have big smile on your face .


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## C-Bag (Jul 9, 2019)

I've often thought about some kind of 3n1 list of mod's thread as its ripe for that kind of thing. One of the mod's I did that has a bunch of potential is I took off spring loaded hold down for the shear as it obstructs seeing the shear blade and doesn't really hold the material that well. I usually use my c-clamp vise grips to clamp the material as it works so much better. But the holes in the shear for the hold down are perfect for mounting a easy on and off table for the brake. This helps a lot to hold things. I also am contemplating some kind of foot power mechanism. It can be a challenge to hold the sheetmetal and then use your hands and keep everything in line.


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## Ken from ontario (Jul 9, 2019)

I like the idea of a thread related to all the mods  on metal forming and shaping tools.


C-Bag said:


> also am contemplating some kind of foot power mechanism. It can be a challenge to hold the sheetmetal and then use your hands and keep everything in line.


Where I worked years ago they had 10 foot long HACO shear with foot operated hydraulic hold down, it gave me the idea of using some type of pneumatic cylinder to replace the plate shear hold down but then I thought it would be an overkill for a 12" shear.


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## Jim Dobson (Jul 9, 2019)

machPete99 said:


> Does anyone have one of these 3-in-1 machines and find it useful? I like the idea, but have heard some horror stories on the quality of these things...



I've made hundreds of items with mine.


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## C-Bag (Jul 9, 2019)

Jim Dobson said:


> I've made hundreds of items with mine.


I think the hardest thing to gauge with all these tools and giving recommendations is what is somebody else going to use it for? Obviously it was just what you needed Jim. Like Ken said, I don't use mine everyday but when I want to make a metal box or housing or sheetmetal mount I can make it look like want it to look like. Not the beat up facsimile I had to settle with for the 40+years before I got the 3n1 by hand forming. 

I hope to get to the point where I've made hundreds of items with it too.


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## C-Bag (Jul 9, 2019)

Ken from ontario said:


> I like the idea of a thread related to all the mods  on metal forming and shaping tools.
> 
> Where I worked years ago they had 10 foot long HACO shear with foot operated hydraulic hold down, it gave me the idea of using some type of pneumatic cylinder to replace the plate shear hold down but then I thought it would be an overkill for a 12" shear.


So I've been around stomp shears and hydraulic brakes and finger breaks but was never able to use them myself. So I'm not familiar with the details. I'm much more a pneumatic than hydraulic guy. I don't need the pressures hydraulic's run at and don't need the complication, mess or the expense. And even a small 1/2" pneumatic cylinder at 120psi can mangle you good if you don't pay attention. 

I could see how a pneumatic hold down that was independent of the shear so it didn't add to the force necessary to pull it through would be handy. But the metal bar that came with my 3n1 was spring loaded to the shear. And because it was just a ground bar it wasn't "grippy". Even when I cranked up the pressure on the spring I didn't feel like it clamped the work as good as my C-vise grips. And the springs added to the pressure it took to pull the shear through. Especially doing a full 30". And with any shear is seems if you go slow like pulling through by hand, the work wants to shift and squeeze out . I think that's why they call it a stomp shear because you stomp it and it goes through fast. But I've never gotten a good look at the mechanism between the the foot bar and the shear head. 

What was on the bottom of the hold down on the HACO? Just metal, or some hard rubber feet or?


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## Jim Dobson (Jul 9, 2019)

I'm really into old model and toy steam engines. They are only small and being able to fabricate bits and pieces for them out of ali, brass, copper and steel is a real bonus and beats tin snips and bending in a vice (what I used to use).

The brake and shear are easy to use and operate.

Now the roller. The roller can be frustrating to use to get the roll that you want to end up with as its all done by feel. There's nothing to dial in so to speak and it takes a bit of guessing and fiddling around to get just right. Before I try rolling expensive plate like copper/brass I practice on sheet metal that I get from the local tip from the sides of washing machines and other white goods that have thin steel etc there's a limitless supply.

The more I use the roller the more I start to learn how it works and for me there was a learning curve. 

This is the smallest 3in1 that is sold in this configuration and then they make a couple of sizes bigger. For car work etc you'd really need a bigger one than what this one is. Its very heavy as there is a fair bit of cast iron but its limited to a 12" cut.


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## Jim Dobson (Jul 9, 2019)

I don't use the spring operated hold down, it works as intended, but I found it just got in the way and cut down on visibility of what I was trying to cut.


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## Ken from ontario (Jul 10, 2019)

Interesting thread Jim, it looks like you and C-Bag removed the spring loaded hold down , I do understand why.
A simpler version for a hold down would make shearing metal  a lot easier, don't you think?, I have seen others on YouTube and also hman in his other thread come up with some sort of hold down which indicates to me , it is a needed  part whether it is phonematic, or spring loaded, I would rather have one  as long as it wasn't obstructive or cumbersome to use.
I'm still looking around for a small air cylinder  so I could replace the hold down. for now I just do what c-bag, will, and many others do which is to use a vise grip to clamp the sheet metal to the angle iron bracket , I also am planning on extending this support bracket so I get more surface for the sheet to rest on,, may also weld a stop to it to get a perfect 90° cut, an old 6" ruler or try square might work .



C-Bag said:


> What was on the bottom of the hold down on the HACO? Just metal, or some hard rubber feet or?


IIRC, they were solid cast iron  with rubber feet so it would not damage the thin gauge brass/Stainless steel surfaces, it was one accurate shear, had adjustable back stop, even the blades cutting gap was adjustable.


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## Alcap (Oct 19, 2020)

I ordered a Shop Fox 24" 3 in 1 , should be here tomorrow . I like the added length of the 90* fence .  Has anyone made other modifications ?  Mine only comes with one handle but I see quite a few have 2 , that might make it easier for me to use since I could use either hand or both . I'm thinking of a stand would be better for me , one fellow made one which he mounted a shrinker on one end and a stretcher on the other so I guess I should try thinking ahead .   I've been watching videos most are just reviews but still learn a little .I did read the manual of a Clarke brand which has much better set-up instruction .   https://www.woodstockint.com/products/M1042    Edit : I got my dates mixed up it won't come until next Tuesday , give me time to figure about a stand


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## C-Bag (Oct 19, 2020)

I had a sheetmetal project I was hot to do and as I practiced with the 3n1 as often happens, it’s shortcomings and mods came up. An extended table for the shear that folded down when not in use would be what I would shoot for. I have mine on it’s own cart and have very limited floor space. So I can’t have a table sticking out permanently.

I made a plug in table for the break to help stabilize the piece before breaking. I need to go back and finalize that as I used the mounts from shear spring holds and they are still a little low.

Mine included both arms which was why I bought it. Most of the failures have been on 3n1’s with only one arm. And the failure is usually on the cast iron linkage where it dog legs to the shear. I think having only one arm puts more pressure on the side the arm is on. There is probably some miss use of doing thicker material than it’s rated for and possible occlusions in the cast iron too.


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## Ken from ontario (Oct 19, 2020)

Congratulation Alcap, I have a  24" Shop Fox break and use it regularly.
This is just my opinion: I would be very careful forming/cutting 14Ga or even 16Ga mild steel sheets if they are 20" to 24" wide, regardless of whether the break has 2 arms or one, even the single purpose breaks or shears struggle with thick/wide materials.

As Tony mentioned, the combination of low quality cast iron in these inexpensive/hobby tools, and operator error in choosing a thickness beyond the capability of the tool, can easily create problems and likely  damage to the tool. just be extra vigilant when using your one arm 3 in one combo .
Before I bought my 24" finger break I asked a few questions from owners and users  of single purpose breaks, some owners swear that they can bend 16Ga mild steel 22" x22" sheets, I have never done that with my break and  imagine my hand shear would struggles cutting such thickness.


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## C-Bag (Oct 19, 2020)

Ken from ontario said:


> I like the idea of a thread related to all the mods  on metal forming and shaping tools.
> 
> Where I worked years ago they had 10 foot long HACO shear with foot operated hydraulic hold down, it gave me the idea of using some type of pneumatic cylinder to replace the plate shear hold down but then I thought it would be an overkill for a 12" shear.


The problem with the 3n1 is doing 3 very different processes in one machine. The original Polish or Czech machine it was cloned from was not very well received either. Every multipurpose machine I’ve ever seen was a jack of all trades and master of none.

 Air powered hold downs would be cool, but it would be a trick to mount where they wouldn’t be in the way. They would also possibly not add to the effort needed to shear depending on how you mount them. After using my 30” with two arms it seems I need and extra hand if I don’t have the part clamped down. That’s why a foot pedal would be handy for me but it would take some noodling to get it worked out. Often solutions come when I’ve been using whatever machine for a while. I feel like I’ve just not spent enough time with this thing.


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