# PM 10x22/30



## nmurph (Oct 31, 2014)

Hi guys, this is my second post and I don't want to come off as the type that runs from machine to machine asking questions and not listening or buying. I've been a very active member of a chainsaw forum for 7 year and have seen this type of poster come and go. I do like to do research before I plop money down. The problem is, I know so little about what I need to know that it's hard to know what to ask!! So, let me tell you where I'm at-

I found a 0602 Grizzly with a VFD conversion for a good price. The problem is the lack of communication from the seller. I've been around, bought and sold enough saws, to know that if I'm not getting the information I want, I tend to get cold feet and lose interest. I can just imagine he has a problem with the motor/control that will be out of my league to repair and the extra cost would put me very close to a new PM. I may be reading the seller wrong, but that's my instinct. That worry, combined with the fact that I had foot surgery today has given me some time to reconsider my options and do a little more research.

Previously I had been interested in a 9x Enco or Grizzly. I had read about the PM's and thought they were a nicer lathe but were out of my price range/needs matrix. Since I came across the 0602 with the variable speed I'm starting to think that is a feature I would find useful. I have a HF 7x and in my limited use of it, I really like being able to dial in the exact speed that gives the best cut. I may be totally wet with this idea but it's were I stand tonight.

Another consideration is bed length. I can accommodate either machine, and I am generally of the buy-it-once mindset. But is there any loss of accuracy due to the extra length in a machine of this size. I can afford either machine, but if spending more is in a sense getting me less, I would gladly live with a smaller bed. I don't foresee the need for the longer bed, but experience tells me that if I go with the 22", I will almost certainly need the 30" in short order. 

Please don't try to talk me into anything any larger. I'm at the top of my budget, (perceived) needs, and space.

So the questions are-


is the variable speed needed/worth it?
is the PM significantly better than a Griz? (I believe the PM has PF for both long/cross feeds?)
is the extra bed length a consideration?

Thanks,
Neal


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## higgite (Oct 31, 2014)

Hi Neal,

Before you go any further, you might want to talk to Matt at Quality Machine Tools, the PM distributor, if you haven't already. I inquired about a PM 10x22 in August and he had none in stock at that time and wouldn't be getting anymore for at least 4 months, if at all, he wasn't sure. That may have changed, but it's worth checking on.

Tom


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## mksj (Oct 31, 2014)

I assume you are looking at the PM 10X22V orx30V http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1030.html or the Grizzly G0752 variable speed version. I would check availability first, as noted. The PM has power cross feed. The variable speed version uses a 3 phase motor, which will give smoother power delivery and nicer surface finish.

There is no loss of rigidity or drawbacks between a 10x22 vs 10x30 bed in this type of machine given it's other limitations. So if you have the space, go with the longer bed. The cost difference is nominal relative to the total unit cost.

Yes, variable speed is well worth it (as opposed to changing pulleys) at the small incremental cost charged for this version in this sized lathe. 

Lot of G0602 and G0752 lathes out there, and a many postings of their strengths and weaknesses. Review this old post as an example http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/48482-Grizzly-10x22-Lathe-Owners-Happy-or-Not

Can't really comment on the quality of the PM vs. the Grizz models you are looking at.


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## nmurph (Oct 31, 2014)

Thanks for the comments.

 I had seen that particular thread.  

I don't believe any of these are the phase.


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## tmarks11 (Oct 31, 2014)

If you call Matt and ask him about the 10x22, he will talk you into the 11x27.

i guarantee it.


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## GA Gyro (Oct 31, 2014)

tmarks11 said:


> If you call Matt and ask him about the 10x22, he will talk you into the 11x27.
> 
> i guarantee it.



I was about to suggest looking at the PM 11x27... good lathe for the $$$.

In the 'small' lathe's... some of the 'standard' features one gets with a larger one... may not be there.  With the 11x27... they are all there... And you get a bunch of accessories with the lathe, as well as a HUGE (for the class) inside dia of the spindle.  

Having a budget, while it is a good idea... for some reason just does not work with small machine tools... which I am sure many of us have learned... one way or another... grin...


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## nmurph (Nov 2, 2014)

tmarks11 said:


> If you call Matt and ask him about the 10x22, he will talk you into the 11x27.
> 
> i guarantee it.



Unfortunately, I have a budget and even the 10x30 is busting it enough to make me uncomfortable.


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## nmurph (Nov 2, 2014)

Well, I've exchanged several emails with Matt, and unfortunately the 10x22/30 are both out of stock for the next several months. 

Where to turn next???

Matt suggested a 10x20 with power feed. It lacks the CV speed but it does have 12 speeds. The LMS machine is CV but in 10rpm increments. 

The crux of my question is-

is the (somewhat limited) CV a better feature than the slightly larger capability of the PM machine?


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## Falcon67 (Nov 3, 2014)

I would buy the larger machine.  I have a VFD/3 ph motor on my mill and it's nice for many reasons, but I have yet to find the need to tweak any speed out side of the 6 stock RPM gear speeds.  I've had my 9x20 for years and changed speeds on it maybe 3 times.  3 phase is good for soft start, instant brake and reverse and smooth running.  I will convert my 12x36 to three phase some day for those reasons.  It's already got 18 speeds so tweaking speed with the VFD will be "meh".  You will likely THINK you need to tweak your speeds more than you actually will in practice.  The exception on my mill would be fine finish at high speeds on aluminum and on the lathe, slow speed for threading.  I have not done threading on my 9x20 but if I did, I would rather fab up a hand crank for the spindle rather than throw 3 phase or DC motor control at it.


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## tmarks11 (Nov 3, 2014)

nmurph said:


> The LMS machine is CV but in 10rpm increments


The LMS machine has no threading dial, IIRC.  That would knock it off my list right there.  Also 10 rpm increments is ridiculous; nobody needs that fine of control of spindle speed.


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