# South Bend 11x54 For Beginner?



## mariner3302 (Oct 7, 2015)

Hi, I'm new to machining but I like working with steel a lot. I want a lathe and there is one on craigslist about 200 miles away.  https://charlotte.craigslist.org/tls/5229518773.html  I have tried to find out more info. I asked the owner the following:
 "I haven't any experience with lathes (spelled NONE) but would like to learn. I have looked around and aside from the condition of a lathe I choose, it sounds like parts are hard to come by for the 11" swing models because they weren't produced as much as the 10's. I've spent some time reading different forums and such to try and figure out what to buy and what to avoid. Any comments on parts availability? With that question out of the way, what would you describe the condition of your lathe?
I don't have much in the way of explaining what I will use it for except to say I am a general tinkerer. I would like the ability to fashion and shape metal within reasonably tight tolerances.
Anything you can tell me would be helpful.. I'm not sure of what to ask and what to look for. Would you consider this lathe as one I could learn on and not have to upgrade to soon?"

The answer I got was:
 "this lathe is in good shape, clean ways  and good feed. the chuck is out about .003. once you have it in place and level you can true the chuck with a boring bar and a piece of brass round stock."


So my question to the collective is "what more do I ask"? I want to be able to thread and would like the lathe to do everything lathes can do. I really like the old iron and would rather have it vs the Asian copy's and don't have the money to drop on a new full size lathe. As asked in the above email, parts and wear are a concern but then there aren't many lathes available near me.  I resisted the 'gotta have it NOW' urge. I'd really like a heavy ten but the price and the availability make that a long shot. This is the size of lathe I want. Not too small and not too big. Plus I have to be able to move it! I'm a retired Marine and pretty much self teaching myself. I looked into a course at the college but it takes about 2 years to get through the pre-requisites just to get into the course. It isn't what I don't know.. I can study and learn that. It is what I don't know that I don't know that I need to figure out. Well, anyway, any help would be good. I'm on a couple other forums and will post this there too.


----------



## rafe (Oct 7, 2015)

The four jaw chuck can be dialed in ...The three jaw may have issues . That would be a fine lathe to learn on if the price is right, it will do anything you need to do and you won't out grow a SB. As long as the spindle is true and the ways are at least 1/2 way decent you will be fine. Anything else can be found or made for the lathe, they were made for long service. I've  got a 14 1/2 and was warned on  parts availability, there has been NO problem ....and you can improvise and overcome most if not all problems....If the price is right grab it IMHO Regards Rafe Oh I didn't see the price ....He who hesitates is lost ...the chucks,motor and taper are worth that .....


----------



## bob308 (Oct 7, 2015)

unless there is something very wrong with the lathe run over and get it. it has a quick change gear box which is good. the gear box is double tumbler which means it is post war. it has the threading dial so it is set up to cut threads. it has a taper attachment which is a big plus along with the steady rest and chucks. for that money you will have to look long and hard to bet that deal. i have a fellow  I am teaching to run a lathe  he would snap that one up in a heart beet.

as to size you can make small parts on a large lathe. but it is hard to make large parts on a small lathe. also the long bed is a plus. unless you go commercial that lathe could be the last you would ever need.

one test you can do is run the carriage all the way to the left  [head stock] put a little tension on the carriage lock bolt. then run the carriage towards the tail stock and see if it gets tight a little snug is ok. I have run some lathes with bad bed wear and still did good work.


----------



## mariner3302 (Oct 7, 2015)

I got ahold of the owner and its still for sale!! He is a nice guy and we had a good chat. We will get a time arranged and I will go pick it up. I am so excited!!!! Now to figure out where to put it!


----------



## rafe (Oct 8, 2015)

Great! Keep us posted as to when you get it. Ask any questions about setting it up ,maintenance,clean-up etc. I just started using mine and kept it oiled, since then I have changed oil ,felts repaired(replaced) the crossfeed screw and more ....Good books out there to read or get. Some may be on this site ! lots of great videos online. You will have some great U.S. Iron in your shop. As for where to put it. Hell,It'd look great in the living room ! Best of luck with it and Regards RafeView media item 74934 PS I think yours is a singular tumbler like mine which probably puts it in an earlier era, I wouldn't worry about that ! You can figure out the age after you have it ...Mines a 47


----------



## bob308 (Oct 8, 2015)

yes I looked at it closer it is a single tumbler. no big deal though it will still do good work. and for a beginner lathe you are not going to beat the price.


----------



## woodtickgreg (Oct 8, 2015)

Like the others have said, for the price it will be a great beginner lathe to learn with.


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Oct 8, 2015)

go for it!
as a fellow 11" owner ,there are not many 11" parts out here


----------



## mariner3302 (Oct 9, 2015)

Got her home! Now what?? Lol 

It is GORGEOUS!! I'll get some pictures tomorrow.


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Oct 9, 2015)

nice, i hope she's in good shape.


----------



## mariner3302 (Oct 10, 2015)

Serial no. 78157

It seems to be in perfect shape! I did the slide test and couldn't feel it bind. It was clean of all chips or sign of use. The man I got it from was a very nice man! He used it to polish crankshafts and never did much cutting, if any. I pressure washed it and then soaked it in WD-40. I will wipe it down and re-soak it. I have to figure out mounting the motor. I would LOVE to know any history or how to find it!!
I looked the serial number up and it's in the 1937 range if I'm reading it right.


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Oct 10, 2015)

nice lathe. do you have the tailstock?


----------



## woodtickgreg (Oct 10, 2015)

Pretty amazing that you got the taper attachment with it, those alone hold their value! Congratulations on your new lathe. First thing I would do is change the oil in the apron and re wick the spindle and change the oil in that too!


----------



## mariner3302 (Oct 10, 2015)

It has the tailstock with live center, drill bit center, Jacobs Chuck center. There is the steady rest and a follow rest. A whole mess of tipped cutters. Has the taper attachment and threading unit. 3 and 4 jaw chucks. It even came with a book by Atlas on "how to use a lathe". The motor is single phase 220, freshly factory rebuilt. It has the leather belt and an extra. No chipped gears and nothing is rusted up. It even has a tank for oiling the work/lathe!
I drenched it in wd40 and cutting oil. Pressure washing it might not have been a brilliant idea. I uscrewed the slide lock too much and found the piece that fits up under the ways was originally painted a dull greyish white paint. It had the only real greasy gunk on it that I've found. The previous owner kept his tools in good condition so I'm satisfied that it was taken care of while he had it.


----------



## bob308 (Oct 10, 2015)

wish I could have found a deal like that for my first lathe.  friend of mine would like to find one like that for his gunsmithing business. you did real good . all except for the pressure washing. that was not a good idea. but get it in a heated room use wd 40. you should be ok.


----------



## mariner3302 (Oct 10, 2015)

Its catalog # 11-B.


----------



## rafe (Oct 10, 2015)

You did very well, what now? Learn everything you can about its use and care ....oil it up real well and use it!


----------



## ScrapMetal (Oct 11, 2015)

The very first thing you should do is to find a copy of South Bend's "How to Run a Lathe"  Here are a couple of links to the book -

Part 1:  http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_1of2.pdf 

 Part 2:  [URL='http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_2of2.pdf']http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_1of2.pdf [/URL]


----------



## mariner3302 (Oct 11, 2015)

Hey thanks, ScrapMetal! That'll be the first thing I do before trying to do anything!


----------



## woodtickgreg (Oct 11, 2015)

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=south bend rebuild manual&ssPageName=GSTL
Follow the link above and look at all the different manuals that are offered here. Your gear box and apron look very similar to a heavy 10L, a rebuild kit and manual may be very helpful with your lath. Most south bends where very similar in their construction and the manual for the 10L would be invaluable in trying to figure out how to re wick and disassemble your lathe or for any future repairs. I purchased one of these manuals and it was a huge help for me, I consider it an owners manual on steroids. Not exact to our lathes but damn close. It will explain the taper pins that south bend uses to assemble their lathes and how to work with them. Looking at the pics of your lathe I am not sure if there is an oil reservoir in the head stock, it may be the older style cast iron headstock with constant loss oilers mounted on top and non replaceable bearing surfaces. So most of the wicks and felts in the 10L kit may work for you and then maybe have to make what is not in the kit. An old 11" like yours is kinda rare and there is not a lot of stuff available for it directly so you have to do your homework to source or make parts. But it is still a very good capable lathe and a great buy for a first lathe, especially with all the tooling you got with it.


----------



## mariner3302 (Oct 11, 2015)

Hey thanks!!! Great sources, I will get them. I actually ended up paying $650. I gave him the asking price but he gave me back $100. I definitely won the lottery, I think!! I'm going to get the card from South Bend so I know who it went to originally!


----------



## woodtickgreg (Oct 11, 2015)

I got that card for mine, it was very interesting to find out that my lathe had spent it's whole life in the Detroit area, told me exactly when it was made and what it was sold with and who it was sold to, very cool. Here is the link to my rebuild thread. it is a long read but I took a lot of pictures and it may be of some help to you as you learn your new lathe. I really knew very little about my lathe when I purchased it and just learned it as I went along. But with the manual I fixed everything and made her new again. I was a bit extreme with the rebuild, started out thinking "oh I'll just do some light cleaning and oil it up and use it" then my a.d.d. kicked in, lol. Anyway here's the link if your interested.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/heavy-10-project.7459/


----------



## mariner3302 (Oct 11, 2015)

I just had a chance to look at the book that I got with it. It's "Lathe Operation and Machinist's Tables" by Atlas Press Co. and it was printed in 1937! The same year as the lathe! It's in great shape and doesn't have any writing or notes so I don't know when it joined company with the lathe itself. Nice to think it may have been procured early in the lathe's life..


----------



## mariner3302 (Oct 11, 2015)

Thanks, Greg! That'll probably be just what I do lol

I got to hand turning it and watching what gears do what. I haven't figured out how to get the thread counter to engage but I will!


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Oct 11, 2015)

i'd highly suggest anyone with a South Bend lathe to take a look at woodtickgreg's restoration thread, he did a textbook excellent job on his


----------



## woodtickgreg (Oct 11, 2015)

mariner3302 said:


> Thanks, Greg! That'll probably be just what I do lol
> 
> I got to hand turning it and watching what gears do what. I haven't figured out how to get the thread counter to engage but I will!


Just playing with it and putting your hands on it is one of the best teachers. To get the thread dial to engage you loosen the bolt that holds it on and swing it into the leadscrew, then tighten the bolt back down.


----------



## mariner3302 (Oct 11, 2015)

I wondered if that was it! Thanks!

Any idea's as to whether I screwed up the bearings by the pressure washing? Is there a way to test them?

I got to looking at the ways. I can tell the original scrapings by comparing it to pictures of them online. After they end up near the headstock, they are smooth as can be. I can't discern any of the swirl marks from the original scraping. At the same time though, when I tighten up the bolt and run the cross slide, I can't feel any binding at all. How would I be able to tell if the ways had been re-scraped or if they are worn badly? Maybe I am doing the slide test wrong?


----------



## woodtickgreg (Oct 11, 2015)

First lets look at the head stock. This is a very old lathe and may actually be before they started to produce them with the bronze bearing shells. Your lathe (and I'm guessing) probably has the cast iron bearing surface that is actually a part of the headstock. The only way to know if there is any water in the them is to pull the bearing caps and pull the spindle. I don't know if that is really needed. Only you know how aggressive you got with the pressure washer. There is also the back gear shaft and the spindle cone that needs to be thought about, if you got aggressive with the pressure washer and filled these parts with water then I would tear it down and clean and relube everything. This would mean taking the spindle bearing caps of very carefully and not mixing up the shims or the order that they are in. Now about the ways, if you see scrape marks all the way to the head stock, even if they get thin by the headstock, then I wouldn't be too concerned about way wear. I would be more concerned about the water at this point, draining and refilling the apron would also be on the to do list.


----------



## mariner3302 (Oct 13, 2015)

Well, I don't think I got too aggressive near the headstock but I can't rule out it getting wet and the top right bearing oiler doesn't have a cap. I saw a video about removing the spindle and I guess I am not understanding the bearings. They aren't bearings like I understand them, ie- ball, needle, race,etc... they look like brass so does that mean the can't lock up but instead the get corroded and don't freely turn? I hate to take something apart I don't understand. However, if it has to be done, let's get to it. Any options? I got the oils coming from ebay.


----------



## woodtickgreg (Oct 13, 2015)

That's correct, they are not traditional ball bearins, more like engine bearings that run a film of oil so proper clearance is a must. No cap on the oiler? I would open her up. Your lathe may predate bearings of any type and just run on a machined cast iron surface, dunno?


----------



## mariner3302 (Oct 13, 2015)

Oh goody.... the spindle is surrounded by brass casing under each mount. I know not to mix up the shims under each mount but will opening it up make the clearance/tolerance/space different? I hate it when I make more work for myself but then I would probably have done it anyway...


----------



## woodtickgreg (Oct 13, 2015)

That's good that it has the plain brass or bronze bearings. Do you know what a lift test is? I would do a lift test on it before I took it apart to establish a baseline. Reassemble the spindle, bearings, and shims exactly as they where. Even in front to rear orientation. Mark the bearings with a sharpie, or a scribe if the are sticking out of the caps. Also make note of how much resistance the spindle has when turning by hand before you take it apart.


----------



## mariner3302 (Oct 13, 2015)

I'm looking up the lift test and I will do one. Here is the serial card for it. I'm a little disappointed that it doesn't have information for the motor. Working on figuring out the codes too... I see it doesn't list the taper attachment. I guess that means it was added at a later date?


----------



## woodtickgreg (Oct 13, 2015)

This is another example of the machines don't usually travel to far from where they were sold.


----------



## rafe (Oct 14, 2015)

Almost 80 years of service so far .....Built to last? Oh Yeah!


----------



## ScrapMetal (Oct 14, 2015)

Your SB is very similar to my SB (an 11" made in '39).  There shouldn't be any problem if you pull the bearing caps to see what you have under there just don't mess up the shims when you do it.  Now, there are a few things that are "unique" to the 11" SB that aren't on the card, the spindle nose is threaded 1 5/8" - 8 and also the through-hole of the spindle is 7/8".  The proper collets for the 11" are the fairly rare "2s" collets.  I have never found any used and while some new ones are available from Hardinge the price is such that you must really, really need one badly to consider it - http://shophardinge.com/productGrid.aspx?catID=1551

Finally, while not unique, the tailstock takes a #2 Morse taper as does the headstock (with proper adapter).

Hope you find that useful,

-Ron


----------



## mariner3302 (Oct 16, 2015)

Thanks, Ron! I've been waiting to take the bearing caps off but I suppose I might as well just do it. I have too many projects going at the same time right now, darn it! lol  I haven't leveled it up yet, would that effect it when buttoning it back up?
 I have done some preliminary research and I think this lathe was probably used in the textile mills around Dillon, SC. I know the original owner's Dad worked in the Mills. I have considered contacting the family and seeing if there might be a picture of the man using it. I am not sure if that's weird but in this day and age you never know.


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Oct 17, 2015)

Hi Ron,
if you have nothing better to do than to read some stuff on a south bend restoration in process,
you can see my thread at
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...111b-105014-iqr-rebuild-by-ulma-doctor.14399/
i hate to admit the project is slow in coming. 
i'm intending on metal scraping a majority of the mating surfaces


----------



## mariner3302 (Oct 17, 2015)

Well, after pulling the drain plug out of the apron, I got about a tablespoon and a half of water but no oil. I filled it with penetrating oil then drained it again. The countershaft was empty but not dry. I filled every cap with PB Blaster and have used it liberally everywhere. Once I getit apart and cleaned and reassembled I will put in the correct oils. On to the spindle caps...

What is a good solvent for all around shop use and parts cleaning? I have a variety of non solvent degreasers but my 1937 Lathe Manual says to use kerosene. I don't have a parts washer per se. I had one of the harbor freight jobs once on my ranch in KS but it took up more space than anything else. I have been looking at this though - http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/jobsmart-portable-parts-washer-20-gal-tank-capacity
I'm fine with just soaking and scrubbing out of a 5 gallon bucket too.  Anyway, I know there are as many preferences as there are stars above but something efficient and inexpensive would be good.


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Oct 17, 2015)

kerosene & diesel fuel are good general clean up fluids
kerosene is slightly more flammable but both will penetrate as well as degrease


----------



## woodtickgreg (Oct 17, 2015)

I have a parts washer and I just use mineral spirits in it because I can get it cheap and it does a good job of degreasing small engine parts. I used it when I rebuilt my lathe. I like the parts washer you show in the link, looks like a good buy for the price asked. Portable and with shelves is nice. 20 gal. is plenty of capacity too. I might have to go look at one of those myself and then craigslist the one I have.


----------

