# Looking for CAM software



## hman

I bought a DynaMyte DM2400 CNC mill about a year ago and have been exploring CNC.  The mill came fully set up with Centroid and has been working well.  I've settled on Alibre for the CAD work.  My favorite CAD software, CREO Elements Direct (formerly Solid Designer) is ungodly expensive for a home shop, but I found a free version - which is unfortunately severely limited in available output formats.

I did try Fusion 360, and was able to make some 3D parts, using the native CAM capability.  But Fusion seems to have started playing games with its users - strong hints that it's about to get expensive.

At the moment I'm using CamBam to convert Alibre .DXF output to Gcode.  But CamBam is pretty primitive (very few features and viewing capability, weird, poorly documented parameter lists, etc) and I'm looking for something a bit better.  

Got a sales call today from Alibre, soliciting me to buy one of their super-duper upgrades.  While on the phone with the salesman, I asked about CAM.  He told me to go to their website and look at EZ CAM, Spurt CAM, or Mecsoft Alibre CAM-Mill.  (PS - the Alibre upgrades are pretty spendy, so I'll stick with what I have.)

Does anybody have experience with any of the aforementioned programs ... and are they worth the cost?

EZ CAM is $1K for Express, $2500 for an un-named medium version, and $4K for Pro.





						Ezcam Cad Cam Software CNC Simplified CNC Mill,CNC Turn,EDM
					

Ezcam Cad Cam Software CNC Simplified, CNC Milling Software,CNC Turning Software, CNC Wire EDM Software, Best CNC Software, Best Price CNC Software, CNC Cad/Cam



					ezcam.com
				




Mecsoft's Alibre CAM-Mill Express is $600; other versions go up as high as $10K.





						AlibreCAM - MILL | MecSoft Corporation
					

With the power and functionality of Alibre Design's parametric design capabilities with the robust and powerful milling capabilities of MecSoft's standalone CAM software, AlibreCAM delivers outstanding ease of use, associativity to design, power, speed and affordability.




					mecsoft.com
				




Spurt CAM is apparently a Russian company  They don't list prices anywhere on the website, so it's probably ungodly expensive.








						SPRUT Technology
					

Developers CAM/CAD system for CNC machines and industrial robots




					www.sprutcam.com
				




Other than these, does anybody have any decent CAM software to suggest that doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

PS - Looked at jumps4's sticky thread, which lauded d2cnc.  Though the software looks capable, it's apparently fully devoted to Mach3, not Centroid.  One thing I learned early on was that the correct post processor is vitally important to the success of any Gcode output. Durn!


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## Boswell

I use BobCad.  It had done all that I need. It is not very intuitive and you have to put up with some very aggressive sales people. I don't have a problem with the sales people and they will negotiate on price (significantly). Tell them you are hobbyist and use it for non-commercial purposes (assuming that is true) and then play hard to get. You will likely get a price that is hugely discounted. My first purchase, took several weeks before they offered a price that I could afford.  They have many incremental up-charges that you will need to be aware of as well.   After using it for a few years, I have made peace with the non-intuitive interface and one of the recent upgrades made some good progress on improving the interface.  

I am sad to hear that Fusion360 may start to charge for home users. I hope it is just a rumor.


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## coherent

If you've never used Inventor, I'd at least take a look at a few video tutorials to see what it can do. The HSM module is pretty good. It's nice to complete a project start to finish with the same software. There are plenty of tutorials and it took a few weeks to get really comfortable, with it  (I'm by no means a power user) but its not too bad.
I can also directly output my machining/cut files for the CNC mill, CNC router and 3d printer STL files.
Not sure of your status, but if you (or someone in your family) is a student, just go online a sign up for a free educational software and get the latest versions of Inventor and HSM and free license files. It's a fairly simple process online. They also provide free trials.


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## TomS

Fusion360 is still a good option.  Yes, they recently changed their subscription agreement but it is still free to non-commercial subscibers.  I renewed a few weeks ago, at no cost, with little more than pushing a button.

I also use CamBam.  As you said it's limited on the 3D side but I find it easy to use for 2D and 2.5D operations.  And I find their support forum to be one of the best.  Several members are commercial users and freely share their experiences and plugins.  The CAD side is a bit cumbersome but once I got used to using it I can draw a simple model and generate code in a matter of minutes. 

When I first got into CNC I bought D2NC.  It was cheap and got me going.  I wouldn't consider it to be a serious contender once you want to move on from basic profiling and pocketing.

My 2 cents.


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## hman

Thanks to all!  I now have some new options to try out.


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## Mini Cooper S

I have used Alibre for a very long time. I am retired and make some parts for the company that I retired from in my home shop. I have retrofitted a Bridgeport Series 1 CNC with modern controls and bought a copy of Alibre Atom to do my CAD work with. So far Alibre Atom has done everything that I have asked it to do, I am very happy with it.  On the CAM side of things, I also used CamBam, it was very limited and somewhat clumsy, but it did allow my to earn enough money to buy MecSoft for Alibre at $600. (I really wish that I would have put the money For CamBam towards the Mecsoft software) 

I find the combination to be very easy to use and as I said before "it does everything that I ask of it." There is a bit of a learning curve but as with anything, the more you use it, the easier it is to use. I am very happy with this setup.

Also, Mecsoft comes with a lot of post processors so you should have no problem finding one that will work with your controller. ( I am using Mach 4)

Richard


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## j.smith

Find this post timely as I've been struggling with the new Fusion 360 licensing terms. While I still qualify for their free startup license terms, I have been unable to renew (since early November). The Fusion 360 forums contain numerous posts where the conclusion is that unless your startup is sexy and highly visible, you can no longer get a commercial free startup license. Can't talk to the free individual hobbiest license, except I now notice that the software functionality is now reduced, unlike the case a couple of years ago when all the licenses had access to the same software.


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## hman

UPDATE:

I've been pretty busy with a number of other projects since I first posted this, but I'm finally getting ready for some serious looking and doing.  Toward that end, I've sent some inquiries to Solidworks (which apparently has a CAM add-on) and taken a second look at several options for Alibre add-ons.  

The first was sprutCAM (mentioned in my original posting.  I went to their website again, and tried to ask about pricing on two different message pages.  Both of them returned errors. And the only phone number anywhere on the website appears to be one in Russia.  They do list a US office in Wisconsin, but no phone # ... Something smells mighty fishy here!

My second effort was look at MecSoft.  I'd originlly mentioned that their software is $600 and up.  But now they're mentioning a free (though limited) version called "Freemill" for Alibre Design.  I've sent an inquiry to find out if it also works with Atom.

Thirdly, I've taken Boswell's suggestion and made contct with BobCAD/CAM, just to see if I can get some kind of discount.

I'll post additional information as I receive it.  Thanks again to all who responded to my original question.


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## jumps4

Hi
I use D2NC to do 99% of my work . I don't use it's drawing part only the cam for 2d and 4th axis.
It's $79 and uses DXF files I Draw with Emachineshop that is free and easy to use.
See D2Nc here        http://d2nc.com/index.html
If you search Youtube for jumps42009 I have videos on how I use the 2 softwares. ( they are not great quality in the first ones but get better )
Steve


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## BGHansen

hman said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> I've been pretty busy with a number of other projects since I first posted this, but I'm finally getting ready for some serious looking and doing.  Toward that end, I've sent some inquiries to Solidworks (which apparently has a CAM add-on) and taken a second look at several options for Alibre add-ons.
> 
> The first was sprutCAM (mentioned in my original posting.  I went to their website again, and tried to ask about pricing on two different message pages.  Both of them returned errors. And the only phone number anywhere on the website appears to be one in Russia.  They do list a US office in Wisconsin, but no phone # ... Something smells mighty fishy here!
> 
> My second effort was look at MecSoft.  I'd originlly mentioned that their software is $600 and up.  But now they're mentioning a free (though limited) version called "Freemill" for Alibre Design.  I've sent an inquiry to find out if it also works with Atom.
> 
> Thirdly, I've taken Boswell's suggestion and made contct with BobCAD/CAM, just to see if I can get some kind of discount.
> 
> I'll post additional information as I receive it.  Thanks again to all who responded to my original question.


Hi John,

SprutCam is the one pushed by Tormach.  That's probably where the Wisconsin number came from.  Tormach has at least 3 SprutCAM packages ranging from $800 - $1800.  There's also consulting available for $185 per hour.  Not a bad gig if you've got the knowledge. . . .

Bruce


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## cjtoombs

They have made some changes to Fusion 360 licencing for the free versions, all though it will have no effect on my usage.  They now require small businesses to submit for approval before they get to use Fusion for free, and they stripped the collaborative tools from the hobby version.  This has no effect on my usage, and probably 99% of hobby users out there as I never used those features to begin with.  I've always been worried that some MBA would decide they needed to charge everyone, but so far so good.


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## RJSakowski

hman said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> I've been pretty busy with a number of other projects since I first posted this, but I'm finally getting ready for some serious looking and doing.  Toward that end, I've sent some inquiries to Solidworks (which apparently has a CAM add-on) and taken a second look at several options for Alibre add-ons.
> 
> The first was sprutCAM (mentioned in my original posting.  I went to their website again, and tried to ask about pricing on two different message pages.  Both of them returned errors. And the only phone number anywhere on the website appears to be one in Russia.  They do list a US office in Wisconsin, but no phone # ... Something smells mighty fishy here!
> 
> My second effort was look at MecSoft.  I'd originlly mentioned that their software is $600 and up.  But now they're mentioning a free (though limited) version called "Freemill" for Alibre Design.  I've sent an inquiry to find out if it also works with Atom.
> 
> Thirdly, I've taken Boswell's suggestion and made contct with BobCAD/CAM, just to see if I can get some kind of discount.
> 
> I'll post additional information as I receive it.  Thanks again to all who responded to my original question.


SprutCAM is distributed by Tormach in Wauankee, WI.  Tormach began selling SprutCAM with their machines some time ago.  I bought SprutCAM7.  They are currently on SprutCAM12.  The cost differs depending on whether you want to post to Tormach machines only or the universal post.  The basic package is $895 but only posts to Tormach mills and their CNC router.  For $1295, you can post to all Tormach machines.  For $1795, you get the universal post package.
Edit: the $1795 price is apparently available to Tormach owners.  You will have to contact them regarding a full open license.   AQlso, it appears that the $895 version no longer supports 4 th axis machining.





						SprutCAM Full License
					

SprutCAM is a powerful 3D CAM software package for interactive multi-axis tool path design, offering premium features at an affordable price. With over 30 unique machining strategies, 4-axis programming support, advanced tool path simulation, and more, SprutCAM gives you the programming power to...




					www.tormach.com


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## RJSakowski

I have used SprutCAM 7 for the past eight years.  It has a few quirks, mostly in the CAM setup part.  I expect that there have been considerable improvements over the past five versions. 

SprutCAM updates about once a year.  There is a cost to the updates, around $500 -$600.  If you skip several updates, you have to pay full purchase price again.  Since I use it only for personal purposes, I haven't updated.  Edit:  looking at their website, I don't see anything about updating at a discounted price.


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## greenail

i'm sticking with fusion until the end of the free program.  I hope the new EDA integration will get even better.  as it is now the new EDA functionality is pretty good.  CAD/CAM are outstanding and Simulation/FEA is still free AFAIK.


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## hman

Quick update regarding Sprutcam (in case anybody is interested in it) ...  I got a quote back from them today.  Here's the annual cost:

SprutCAM Expert: $3,395
Maintenance: $850 (optional)
Total: $4,245.00

This is higher than Bruce and RJ mentioned in posts above, but that may be because I'm not a Tormach user.  Note that the link supplied on the Alibre website, sprutcam.com, leads to pretty much a dead end.  The website to use is sprutcamamerica.com


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## HobbyistDad

Fusion360 is free for students, educators, and makers at this point. I think that is awesome for those of us that just like to fart around in the home shop and need good quality software to minimize cost and machine crashes. 

I'm more comfortable with AutoDesk products because I have used Inventor at the last 2 companies. This is smart of Autodesk to provide free of charge software because the young people of today will be the business decision makers of tomorrow.


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## devils4ever

I started using Fusion360, but they seem to be creeping towards charging for it for hobby use. Plus, I really don't like all my files in the "cloud".

So, I recently switched to FreeCAD. It has some issues and limitations, but I'd rather deal with them now than have to convert all my files in the future.


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## hman

Thanks again, all!


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## RJSakowski

hman said:


> Quick update regarding Sprutcam (in case anybody is interested in it) ...  I got a quote back from them today.  Here's the annual cost:
> 
> SprutCAM Expert: $3,395
> Maintenance: $850 (optional)
> Total: $4,245.00
> 
> This is higher than Bruce and RJ mentioned in posts above, but that may be because I'm not a Tormach user.  Note that the link supplied on the Alibre website, sprutcam.com, leads to pretty much a dead end.  The website to use is sprutcamamerica.com



I believe the maintenance fee for SprutCAM is the annual subscription fee.  You only pay the $3395 one time.  However, if you miss paying the maintenance fee for (used to be) two years, you have to pay the full fee again.

I say that looking from the Tormach owner's viewpoint though.

CAD and CAM software in general start out a a fairly reasonable cost but as it galns users, the costs start to rise dramaticalkly.  If you are a medium to large engineering or machining user, the costs are fairly easily amortized but for small users, startup companies, and hobbyists, the costs are prohibitive. These companies fail to understand that these small users will be tomorrow's big users and brand loyalty is strong.  Autodesk seemed to grasp that with Fusion and they came out with a reasonable pricing structure but that may change too.  My belief is that thwey were concerned with losing Market share to competition and Fusion was their response. When thery first introduced Fusion, I asked their reps point blank if they had any intention of changing their pricing structure and received an emphatic, "NO".  We shall see.


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## rwm

I really like Fusion. I hope y'all are wrong that the free license is going away. I sure hope they don't pull a 'Photobucket'!
Robert


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## matthewsx

The challenge with any closed source software is that it only takes one change in management or ownership to change business policies. It's nice when companies make their products available free or reduced cost for students, hobbyists, etc. but if there's a bad quarter or a philosophical change at the top then all bets are off. This is especially troubling when the program stores files in proprietary formats or online with their own servers rather than letting you save or export to industry standards.

Open source software eliminates this by making the source code freely available, something that isn't super helpful if you're not a programmer but it means that if there's a disagreement between the people working on the project all they have to do is fork the code and each team can do their own thing (look at how Open Office became Libre Office after Oracle started doing things some of the team didn't like).

I'll admit I'm biased towards open source but when you look at what's happening with business today it really makes sense to have software that's not tied to the fate of one company. Having the source code freely available means that instead of having one group of developers working for a single company you have many programmers all over the world to find bugs and add features without corporate constraints. It also opens opportunity for entrepreneurs to add features and sell support packages that people want. Simply put it is a better, faster way to make quality software.

That's why I'm using FreeCad and LinuxCNC  

Cheers,

John


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## hman

Durn good points, John!  Thanks!


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## rwm

I think that the people at Fusion have hope of knocking off Solidworks (D'assault Systemes) as the industry leader. Their strategy seems to be to get a lot of beginner users familiar with the product so they become the default. When these people eventually become the decision makers for industry they will be biased towards Fusion and stick with it. Apple had a similar idea when they started. They realized that if they became the dominant computer manufacturer for schools the kids would eventually grow up and buy Macs. They were right.
BTW the cost for them to let hobbiests use their software is Zero. They are just hoping you or your company will pay the license fees someday. 
Robert


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## cjtoombs

rwm said:


> I think that the people at Fusion have hope of knocking off Solidworks (D'assault Systemes) as the industry leader. Their strategy seems to be to get a lot of beginner users familiar with the product so they become the default. When these people eventually become the decision makers for industry they will be biased towards Fusion and stick with it. Apple had a similar idea when they started. They realized that if they became the dominant computer manufacturer for schools the kids would eventually grow up and buy Macs. They were right.
> BTW the cost for them to let hobbiests use their software is Zero. They are just hoping you or your company will pay the license fees someday.
> Robert



Yes, the cost is zero, but it's surprising how many people in business don't see it that way.


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## rwm

Lost opportunity cost I guess. But I assume they have figured out that hobbyists and startups are not going to pay the expensive fees. It is hard to justify unless you are making income from the software.
Robert


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## macardoso

rwm said:


> I think that the people at Fusion have hope of knocking off Solidworks (D'assault Systemes) as the industry leader. Their strategy seems to be to get a lot of beginner users familiar with the product so they become the default. When these people eventually become the decision makers for industry they will be biased towards Fusion and stick with it. Apple had a similar idea when they started. They realized that if they became the dominant computer manufacturer for schools the kids would eventually grow up and buy Macs. They were right.
> BTW the cost for them to let hobbiests use their software is Zero. They are just hoping you or your company will pay the license fees someday.
> Robert



Honestly, I don't see Fusion playing that business model. Autodesk already has Inventor which is a much more featured and traditional software package targeted to compete with Solidworks. I think Fusion is aimed to get the business of anyone who is unwilling to pay the price of Inventor/Solidworks and instead uses some lower tier software.

Autodesk offers licenses for a good chuck of their software under similar terms as the hobby version of Fusion (including Inventor). It would be surprising if they pulled the rug out from everyone's feet.


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## RJSakowski

There is some cost involved.  Autodesk supplies support for non paying Fusion users.  Cloud space isn't free.  Non paying users take up bandwidth during the relatively frequent updates.


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## shonteff@sbcglobal.net

I have been using Rhino cad and cam for a few years. However the Windows 10 upgrade has ended my cam use and MecSoft will not offer support because it is a few years old. I was told the upgrade messed up the dongle. Any way I want to up grade my cam software. I make custom sewing machines so a lot of small precision parts. The last upgrade was an extremely bad experience. I bought a new computer. Then the Cad Cam package would not work so I upgraded them both. Then the CNC Jr still would not work . I had to but all new motors and electronics. So this computer upgrade was $13K.  

Now I am in need of a good new CAM package to make my tools paths. Any advice would be great. This is for a home shop not General Motors 

Harry
San Francisco


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## Mini Cooper S

shonteff@sbcglobal.net said:


> I have been using Rhino cad and cam for a few years. However the Windows 10 upgrade has ended my cam use and MecSoft will not offer support because it is a few years old. I was told the upgrade messed up the dongle. Any way I want to up grade my cam software. I make custom sewing machines so a lot of small precision parts. The last upgrade was an extremely bad experience. I bought a new computer. Then the Cad Cam package would not work so I upgraded them both. Then the CNC Jr still would not work . I had to but all new motors and electronics. So this computer upgrade was $13K.
> 
> Now I am in need of a good new CAM package to make my tools paths. Any advice would be great. This is for a home shop not General Motors
> 
> Harry
> San Francisco



I use Alibre Atom, I find it very intuitive and thus easy to use.  I added AlibreCam from Mecsoft (I know you may not be happy with them) and have a very nice setup especially for the price. Like you, I am a home shop, not General Motors but I have yet to run into a part that I was not able to model with Alibre Atom although I am sure that it has limitations.

Richard
Cedarburg, WI


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## shonteff@sbcglobal.net

Mini Cooper S said:


> I use Alibre Atom, I find it very intuitive and thus easy to use.  I added AlibreCam from Mecsoft (I know you may not be happy with them) and have a very nice setup especially for the price. Like you, I am a home shop, not General Motors but I have yet to run into a part that I was not able to model with Alibre Atom although I am sure that it has limitations.
> 
> Richard
> Cedarburg, WI


Thanks I am looking into it.


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