# Canadian Shipping Costs/estimate



## NavyShooter (Dec 29, 2017)

Goodday all,

I've pretty much settled on buying a PM 1030 lathe from Precision Matthews, the question right now is the final price-tag with shipping and all included.

Matt (PM guy?) responded promptly to some e-mail queries I sent, and he has indicated that shipping for the lathe will run me $249.

That said, I'm wondering what the 'to my door' price will end up being.

I did some magic math, and for the lathe, with accessories (and base) I'm looking at $2597.97.  Which comes out to $3265.01 in Canuck bucks (0.80 exchange rate) 

Add in the shipping at $249 ($313 Cdn) and I'm up to $3578 Canuck bucks at the border.

CBSA responded to me indicating that it'd be HST on the cost of the item that I'd be paying, no duties...so in Nova Scotia, that's 15%, which is $489, so that rounds up to $4067 to my door.

Are there any 'other' brokerage fees or anything that I'm likely to encounter that I should factor in?  (Based on your experience shipping to a Canadian destination?) 

Of note, I did a price comparison between the PM 1030 and the CX706 at Busy Bee (10x22) and the Busy Bee lathe comes up at $3653, or about $500 less.

However, that $500 gets me:
-QCTP already installed (and t-slot cross-slide)
-DC Variable Speed Motor
-An extra 8" on the bed

I am SORELY tempted to pull the trigger, as I understand PM has their 1030's instock right now.

I just want to go in eyes wide-open with an awareness of what I'm going to end up paying.

Thanks,

NavyShooter


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## Dabbler (Dec 30, 2017)

- unless you have handled the BB lathe and figure you will like it, I would suggest you keep looking.  Thomas Skinner, PM, Grizzly and others have better faire;  I think the fit and finish of the BB lathe is terrible.

Buy the best quality you can afford right at the start - cheaper than replacing it later!


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## Tozguy (Dec 30, 2017)

Exchange rates and tax (and shipping in this case) makes any purchase rather bitter. Soon forgotten however once you start using the machine.
I think you have covered all the expenses involved. I'm with Dabbler, (the old cry once approach). The extra 500$ for the PM is worth it to me, most stuff is more expensive when bought seperately. Good luck and please let us know what you settle for.


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## pdentrem (Dec 30, 2017)

Go with the PM. Look at tooling as a fixed cost, no matter what machine you get it will cost the same. Tooling will cost you as much as the lathe over time so do not worry about it. 
I was looking at a PM machine a few years ago but a local was selling a clone of the Jet BDB1340A for $1500 so I took that. I already had much tooling that I had bought in the previous 20 years to go with the Atlas 10", I sold the Atlas for $600 to make room for the new lathe. Now I am thinking of selling this one to go down a to a 24" CtoC and free up some space. I did change the chinese motor to a VFD with a TechTop 2 hp invertor rated motor which is just fantastic! Going from a 4 way TP or Lantern TP to a QCTP is so much better! Set the tool height and forget it. No shims etc.


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## aliva (Dec 30, 2017)

Have you check the King Industrial 12 x 36 I picked one up a few years ago for $3500  CDN tax in


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## johnnyc14 (Dec 30, 2017)

Talk to Matt about brokerage. When I bought my mill from him he handled the brokerage and taxes for me for a very small fee. The machine arrived here in Edmonton with no extra costs, all i had to do was,pick it up at the trucking depot


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## NavyShooter (Dec 30, 2017)

aliva said:


> Have you check the King Industrial 12 x 36 I picked one up a few years ago for $3500  CDN tax in



KMS has the King 12x36 on sale right now for $3999, so taking a guess at shipping of $300 (about what it costs for the PM shipping) that's $4300, which, with 15% HST brings me up to $4945, but, it comes with the added cost of me having to get a 220V run setup...to my shop...(which I have to do eventually, but was hoping to do next year not now.) 

I'm limited to a 120V machine for now.


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## NavyShooter (Dec 30, 2017)

Ok, 

So this is the basic table that I've put together.  My 'minimum' standard is a 22" lathe, so I did not consider larger than that.

I have a target price-point of $4000 Canadian.  

My power available in the shop is 120V AC.

I would really LIKE a lathe longer than 22", and I would like to have a variable speed with slow RPM capability for threading.

Here's my basic criteria.  The DRO lathes were included just for S&G consideration...down the road.  I will note that PM has a 2 axis DRO pack for $400 US that I can look at.






The prices for the 'included' items were sourced from the company's website that I was looking at.  

The 1030 meets my criteria, has an included/installed QCTP, hits the low RPM range, and is within a hundred bucks of my price-point.

The only question I have is what the additional costs for brokerage will add to that...am I looking at $100?  Am I looking at $400?

Thanks!

NS


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## Ken from ontario (Dec 30, 2017)

It cost me $150 to run a 240v outlet in my shop but I already had a 30 amp electrical panel in the shop, the point is ,it's not likely to cost a lot to have 220v, ask one of the local electricians to give you an estimate on the phone,they will have a couple of basic questions like what type/size panel do you have at home,or whether the shop in attached/detached,etc..


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## johnnyc14 (Dec 30, 2017)

This is the invoice form my PM932 mill. It should give you an idea what the import and handling charges will be.


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## NavyShooter (Dec 30, 2017)

Ken from ontario said:


> It cost me $150 to run a 240v outlet in my shop but I already had a 30 amp electrical panel in the shop, the point is ,it's not likely to cost a lot to have 220v, ask one of the local electricians to give you an estimate on the phone,they will have a couple of basic questions like what type/size panel do you have at home,or whether the shop in attached/detached,etc..



My garage is across the road from the house...I have calculated that to run a 220 line, I need approximately 160 feet of cable, run under the (private) paved road.   I've got the panel in the garage all ready to receive it, I just haven't run that line.  My guestimate was about $1400 to get that cable ($400) and another bunch of money to rent a digger, and a wet saw to cut the pavement, and dig down 18" to install it.

Johnny, thanks for that.  The additional $240-ish in brokerage is what I was looking to figure out. 

So, basically, that will add another $302 to my total, bringing me up to right around $4370 to my door.

With $2050 Cash in hand after selling my old lathe, that tells me how much more I have to raise in my Lathe fund to go and buy this one.

I can probably raise that money by Mid Jan.  We'll see.

Thank-you all for your input.  I'm going to do a bunch more reading here as I learn...this is the most active PM group around.  I found the Yahoo group to be very quiet.

NS


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## johnnyc14 (Dec 30, 2017)

You might also try Modern Tools, they have an outlet in N.S. and offer an 11 X 26" lathe that might meet your needs. I recently got a quote from them for a new 14 X 40 lathe that is very similar to one sold by Matt and the price, after factoring in the dollar difference, shipping and duty was within a couple of hundred bucks.

http://www.moderntool.com/products/modern-cq6128x660a-lathe-11-swing-26-between-centers/


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## Kiwi Canuck (Dec 30, 2017)

I bought 2 machines earlier this year, PM1340GT and PM935.

Costs for handling and brokerage.

Destination Handling Charge $95.00
Brokerage Fee $95.00
Customs Exam Fee for LCL Shipment $45.00
Dock Fee $45.00

I had them delivered directly from Taiwan so I paid extra for Less than full Container and having the container moved to a freight forwarder and then unloaded. 
I then had the machines delivered to my house by a freight company so if picking up yourself directly you should avoid most of these charges.

You should be around $100 for brokerage and no duty only HST tax as extra.

I checked out several brands including Busy Bee and King, both were OK but neither of them felt right for me so I went with PM as the quality was certainly better on the Taiwanese machines, not sure about PM Chinese machines but many on here have been very happy with them..

Good luck.

David,


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## johnnyc14 (Dec 30, 2017)

Just for comparison the machine I priced at Modern in Edmonton is the CX0636A. The latest version has a lot of new improvements that are not shown on the Modern website including a taper attachment, 2" spindle bore, a 2 axis DRO and drawers in the cabinet. It looks very comparable to Matts PM1440E-LB.
The quote from Modern given in early December was $7795 CDN. This is a picture I took in their showroom.






The PM1440E-LB sells for $4999 USD plus $500 USD for shipping to Canada. That is about $6950 CDN without brokerage fee so maybe $300-$400 difference between the 2 machines (the PM machine does not include a taper attachment). This picture is from the PM website.


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## blue_luke (Dec 30, 2017)

Hello NS, long time lurker with just a few post here.
Couple of years ago (2011-12?) I bought a PM1127-vf lathe , not the large bore, and a small mill PM-25-MV.
It was at the time that poor Matt was told all kind of stories by the manufacturer and had to fight will all kind of circumstances... my machines took more than 8 months for deliveries!
But it seems that is behind and it is always a pleasure to deal with PM. This guy is as straight as an arrow and Nicole is very efficient at preparing export papers and FINDING THE CORRECT CLASSIFICATION NUMBERS!
And this is where you can save a bundle on accise taxes, and Nicole is very keen on that.
Now armed with this number and the paperwork, you can quite easily do the brokerage yourself for... free!
I did it when I received my machines, the transporter was fedex international. Their rates for transportation are relatively fair but then they hit me with almost 400$ brokerage fees and the guy warned me that there can be more fees coming within 60 days...  I call them bandits! and UPS is worse! Both these companies are very creative at tagging you with all sorts of 'fees'!
So I did the brokerage myself following the advice of a friend and I found that:
- do your homework and find the magic number for imported good. There is a PDF file on the canadian tax service describing these. 
- it is the 'broker' that sets these numbers, usually the guy at the canadian service will peruse the papers but not in every detail
- At the Canadian service, maybe I was lucky, but the gentleman at the counter asked me what I intended to do with the machines, when I told him it was for hobby and leisure... he went a bit over his call of duty and found a number where I think I paid no duties on both machines!
-  I had to pay GST and PST up front (15% total or so)
Then I took the papers back to the fedex depot, thump thump went some various stampers and I got the machines delivered the day after!
Saved about 3-400$ there!

Go ahead, you can order from Matt and he won't let you down.
I just ordered, this morning, a bigger mill the PM-833t.
chip tray, 5" precision vise, 0-1/2" precision R8 drill chuck and T-nuts holding kit. The total is about 4K$ US, with transport, duties taxes etc.... I expect to pay about 6K$ CAN ready to lower in my basement.  The machine is about 850 lbs, with the goodies around it, the gross shipping weight will probably be near 1000lbs.

Luc


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## Dabbler (Dec 30, 2017)

OK NavyShooter, just one more thing...  I know you've been inundated with advice, but here's my complete take on this.  I've bought both new and used machines in the past, and rebuilt a lot of stuff.  -However- it depends on your particular needs.  I think you have made them clear, but if I may reiterate: 

- You want to pay $4000 or less.  Rewiring to 220V is for later.  30-36 inch bed is preferred.  In the $4000 you want enough tooling to cut chips.  You prefer new.

so here goes:  +1 check out Modern tool, even if it is a long shot.  they sometimes get back their 12X40s from people who upgrade.  They will stand behind it if they sell you a used machine.  Check out Canadian used machines with tooling.  You just missed a 16X40 in S Alberta with 2 chucks QCTP and more for $2500. The lathe was in excellent shape.  Shipping would have come to $800.  (I shipped my #3900 mill from Vancouver to Calgary with tailgate service for $750. )

-- don't be intimidated by a 220V machine.  For a while at least, almost every 220V machine can be rewired to 120V.  I initially wired my 12X37 to 120V, and then 220V when I moved it to my current shop.  If not a 1HP 120V motor is $150 and can get you started.

Then I'd check out Skinner and PM and Grizzly.  You have to be careful as for a used machine, however as you are still buying sight-unseen.  There are several great suppliers in Ontario, one that has digital threading on it, but I can't remember their name, but they are in London, I think.  Standard Modern in Ontario has a nice 10X30 using D3 camlock, and they come up regularly on Ontario Kijiji.   Even a school-worn SM is within .0005 on the bed after being crashed uncountable times.  My friend bought a SM for $1200 with 2 chucks and no other tooling:  that extra 2800$ covers a lot of shipping and tooling.

As you can see my bias is to get a well kept used machine at about a fraction of retail.  I am currently negotiating to upgrade my 12X37 to a 15X60 LeBlond and my price to buy is between $4000 and $5000, completely tooled and perfect ways.

My current lathe is a 12X37 bought new in 1981 for nearly $3000, and although I do not regret that purchase, knowing what I know now I could have gotten a lot more for my money.  Really, even if you have to save for another 3 months, get the best quality you can afford right at the start.  If you are willing to be patient and hit the pavement, you can dig up a great deal.  This fall I passed on a Harding HLV in Red Deer, about 2 hrs drive:  it was a 10X30 with tooling for $3000. 

Call or visit machine shops in your area.  Sometimes they have a machine 'in the back' that they will let go to make room.  Put an ad on Kijiji saying 'lathe wanted', etc.  One of the hobbyists here did that and bought a King 12X40 with LOTS of tooling for $2600 - I helped him move it, and it was brand new!

Hang in there, and let us know what you find!


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## Downwindtracker2 (Dec 30, 2017)

Exchange rate is not what's quoted on the news, rather it's buy/sell rates. In this case you are buying US $,so it closer to .78 . That Modern looks like a XIMA  made, factory colours . They are a step up from King and Grizzly. Three or four from BusyBee.


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