# new lathe won't start



## MikeWi (May 11, 2013)

I have my PM1236 set and ready to go, but ran into a snag.  The safety switch for the cover was broken, so of course it didn't know the cover was on.  it separated on a seam, so I was able to glue it and tape it together, and the switch guts are pretty robust so this works until a replacement is found.  Only trouble is it still won't turn on.  I have power at the machine, and the on light glows, and the work light turns on, but that's it.  The foot brake has been adjusted so that it's switch is engaged until the brake is operated, so that looks good.  The lathe was shipped with it's cover loose and it wore a hole in the cover of the E-switch, but that's really just a cover for the wiring, not the switch it's self so that doesn't seem likely to be the trouble.  Anybody know the schematic for the panel so I can hunt around with a meter?


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## Richard King (May 11, 2013)

I want to first say, if the switch is broken, better safe the sorry to replace it.  

I have no idea how old your machine is, but many (I'm generalizing)  of the new machines built today have several interlocking safety switches on doors, The safety cover that goes over the chuck, some have low oil switches.  Some of the new emergency off buttons have to be turned and pulled out,  You could check the transformer and see if all the leads coming out have 110V, check and see if there is a reset on the motor starter that is out.  If your careful and have a non metalic round dowel you could try to push in the motor starter  and see if it starts....Hopefully someone else has an answer.  Might have to wail until Monday and call the dealer service desk.   Happy hunting.  Rich


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## Ray C (May 11, 2013)

First, the red front panel switch must be pulled-out.  The side cover switch must be depressed and the ebrake switch must be adjusted properly.  That covers all the basics.

Does the indicator light on the panel light-up?  When you try to turn it on with the op-rod, do you hear relays clicking?  If so, either the cover switch or ebrake is not right.  For the operating condition, the ebrake switch must have no pressure pushing-up on the roller.  When you press the ebrake, it pushes up on the roller and you can hear the switch click. I do not know if it's electrically normally open or closed in the operating position.

Also, once the ebrake or front panel switch has been tripped, you need to operate the op-rod a second time to reset all the relays.

FWIW, I had to fiddle with my ebrake switch for a while when I first got mine.  Sadly, I do not have a schematic. 

Ray


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## MikeWi (May 11, 2013)

Ray C said:


> When you try to turn it on with the op-rod, do you hear relays clicking?  If so, either the cover switch or ebrake is not right.  For the operating condition, the ebrake switch must have no pressure pushing-up on the roller.  When you press the ebrake, it pushes up on the roller and you can hear the switch click. I do not know if it's electrically normally open or closed in the operating position.
> Also, once the ebrake or front panel switch has been tripped, you need to operate the op-rod a second time to reset all the relays.
> Ray



Oops I didn't mention the panic button, but it's set correctly.  everything else was already covered.  Interesting what you say about the ebrake though!  That's the kind of thing I was wondering about.  On my lathe, pressing the pedal draws the bar away from the switch, but you're saying it should be the opposite.  Could have just been assembled wrong I guess.  All I had to do was flip the bar up through the table and connect it.  I'll look at that.  No sound at all when I move the op-rod up or down or to neutral.


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## Ray C (May 11, 2013)

One other thing to look for...

The switch for the op-rod is visible under the lathe directly below and between the 4 leadscrew selector dials on the front panel.  It's a collar switch that goes around the op-rod and I believe it has 4 wires with one neutral and the other three carry the neutral, forward and reverse signal.  It's possible something snagged those wires during shipping.  Check e'm out.

Ray

- - - Updated - - -

Ouch, it's possible I may have mislead you.  I have VFD on mine and I also re-rigged the ebrake lever to work with a different bench.  Given that, I may have changed the orientation of how mine works.  BTW:  The brake pads will operate either by tugging or pushing on the lever.  There's a cam in there.  Center position is no-brakes.  Either other way spreads the brake shoes apart. 

Ray



MikeWi said:


> Oops I didn't mention the panic button, but it's set correctly.  everything else was already covered.  Interesting what you say about the ebrake though!  That's the kind of thing I was wondering about.  On my lathe, pressing the pedal draws the bar away from the switch, but you're saying it should be the opposite.  Could have just been assembled wrong I guess.  All I had to do was flip the bar up through the table and connect it.  I'll look at that.  No sound at all when I move the op-rod up or down or to neutral.


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## MikeWi (May 12, 2013)

Found the problem!   It was the cover safety switch after all.  It was easy to reattach the plunger and you would never suspect the switch itself if you saw it, but neither the N/O or the N/C contacts work. Bypassed it and now it's running. Already emailed PM for a replacement.


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## Ray C (May 12, 2013)

Yaaaa!  OK, so it was 2AM when you informed us?  You still up cutting metal or did you finally drop?





MikeWi said:


> Found the problem!   It was the cover safety switch after all.  It was easy to reattach the plunger and you would never suspect the switch itself if you saw it, but neither the N/O or the N/C contacts work. Bypassed it and now it's running. Already emailed PM for a replacement.


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## MikeWi (May 12, 2013)

No, that was sent from bed actually lol. Found it earlier but I was up late reading and decided I may as well post an update as long as I was up. Smart phones are handy little toys.


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## Ray C (May 12, 2013)

OK, glad you're up & running.  So, did you cut some metal?  How'd it go?




MikeWi said:


> No, that was sent from bed actually lol. Found it earlier but I was up late reading and decided I may as well post an update as long as I was up. Smart phones are handy little toys.


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## slingshot (May 12, 2013)

Hey mike 

I'll have to confess that the very first thing that I done to my lathe before even running or cleaning it was to by pass the cover switch by tying the two wires together. I know that I am going to here it from other safety concerned people lol.

I will have to admit there are some safety switches on some things that are important, most are with kids in mind.I am only speaking of myself and for myself, but to me safety switches are for idiots to help the manufactures against  law suits.  That's just my two cents and by the way if you feel more comfortable  with a safety switch by all means......

I bought a jd riding lawn more a few years ago that was loaded with safety switches,I just could not stand hitting a bump and the motor stalling because the seat bounced up a little and not being able to crank w/o the brake being depressed ect ect...Basically Safety switches have there place on some things and others well that's up to the individual.


JB


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## Ray C (May 12, 2013)

Yes, there are ups & downs to it all.  My old Atlas had open belts (as most of the folks lathes on this list) and the gear cover readily exposed gears just by opening the side cover.  I couldn't tell you how many old-time lathes I've seen pictured here with the on-off switch mounted on the front of the bench right at waist height -bad accident waiting to happen!

 On the lathes we're talking about, the ebrake and panic switch are worthwhile things.  The side cover switch... not sure sure about that.  Anyone who operates with open gears is taking chances -at the very least something could fall off the top of the gearbox and land in the gears.  I always have the side cover on unless I'm changing gears and when that is going on, the wall power switch is off and panic switch engaged.

One of these days, I'd like to make a more convenient side cover for mine.  Taking the whole thing off every time you want to change a gear is a pain!

Ray





slingshot said:


> Hey mike
> 
> I'll have to confess that the very first thing that I done to my lathe before even running or cleaning it was to by pass the cover switch by tying the two wires together. I know that I am going to here it from other safety concerned people lol.
> 
> ...


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## MikeWi (May 12, 2013)

Been at the Parent's for Mother's day.
The cover will need some modification regardless IMHO.  It's just too much of a nuisance to get lined up right now.  I probably don't have the lower bolt straightened out perfectly, but still...  I'd prefer it to be a hinged setup.

I haven't done any cutting yet.  Still had to get it cleaned, lubed and checked out.  I'm the methodical sort I guess.   I want to get all the directions and controls down before I try doing anything on the lathe (remember I'm a noobie at this). Had a brief scare when I engaged the carriage feed and heard a brief grind and all screws stopped.  The banjo nut hadn't been adequately tightened as it turns out.  Fixed it and accidentally moved the feed lever up instead of down and pulled the cross table out of bounds snapping the part attaching it to the screw.  So I've already managed to break the dang thing. :banghead:

I hate it when I'm carefully _wrong_ if you know what I mean.  I'll have to see if Matt can get me a replacement.  sigh.


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## Ray C (May 12, 2013)

Let me know what Matt has for you.  If it's something not readily available, take a picture of what's broken and I'll make it for you.

Ray




MikeWi said:


> Been at the Parent's for Mother's day.
> The cover will need some modification regardless IMHO.  It's just too much of a nuisance to get lined up right now.  I probably don't have the lower bolt straightened out perfectly, but still...  I'd prefer it to be a hinged setup.
> 
> I haven't done any cutting yet.  Still had to get it cleaned, lubed and checked out.  I'm the methodical sort I guess.   I want to get all the directions and controls down before I try doing anything on the lathe (remember I'm a noobie at this). Had a brief scare when I engaged the carriage feed and heard a brief grind and all screws stopped.  The banjo nut hadn't been adequately tightened as it turns out.  Fixed it and accidentally moved the feed lever up instead of down and pulled the cross table out of bounds snapping the part attaching it to the screw.  So I've already managed to break the dang thing. :banghead:
> ...


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## Ulma Doctor (May 13, 2013)

[ The banjo nut hadn't been adequately tightened as it turns out.  Fixed it and accidentally moved the feed lever up instead of down and pulled the cross table out of bounds snapping the part attaching it to the screw.  So I've already managed to break the dang thing. :banghead:

I hate it when I'm carefully _wrong_ if you know what I mean.  I'll have to see if Matt can get me a replacement.  sigh.[/QUOTE]


I feel your pain, brother.
i haven't done the exact same thing, but i'm no stranger to the black cloud of breakage.
most of the time i have hundreds of machines  and just as many operators,working against me, it seems at times.
when i feel like i'm just :banghead:,  i crank up the stereo system and:rocker:.
que sera, sera .
 there isn't anything you can do about what is already done.
lessons come in many forms
just remember, you already learned something.


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## MikeWi (May 13, 2013)

Ray C said:


> Let me know what Matt has for you.  If it's something not readily available, take a picture of what's broken and I'll make it for you.
> Ray


That is a fantastic gesture Ray, and I deeply appreciate it, but Matt will be sending me a replacement.  He even wanted me to look for more parts that may have been damaged.  His service is second to none.


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## george wilson (Jun 13, 2013)

Re: Safety switches; My riding mower had to have the blades stopped before it would back up!! What a PITA!!! I disconnected that feature.


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## GaryK (Jun 13, 2013)

george wilson said:


> Re: Safety switches; My riding mower had to have the blades stopped before it would back up!! What a PITA!!! I disconnected that feature.



Yea, my John Deere has a button you need to press before you can mow in reverse. It has a switch in the seat that I'm going to be over riding soon also.

Gary


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## Ray C (Jun 13, 2013)

Help me out here because I haven't used a riding mower in the past 3 decades or so...  

What possible use is a button to engage the blade while in reverse?  By the wildest stretch of imagination, I can't see a reason how that's helpful.


Ray



GaryK said:


> Yea, my John Deere has a button you need to press before you can mow in reverse. It has a switch in the seat that I'm going to be over riding soon also.
> 
> Gary


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## Bill Gruby (Jun 13, 2013)

Believe it od not Ray many accidents happening to children and lawnmowers are caused by backing up with the blade engaged and dot looking.  My Snapper will not go into reverse with the blade engaged.

 "Billy G"


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## GaryK (Jun 13, 2013)

Ray C said:


> Help me out here because I haven't used a riding mower in the past 3 decades or so...
> 
> What possible use is a button to engage the blade while in reverse?  By the wildest stretch of imagination, I can't see a reason how that's helpful.
> 
> ...



It doesn't engage the blade. It just allows you to go in reverse with the blade engaged. If you try to go in reverse without pressing the button the motor bogs down. (not sure if it will actually stop since it reminds me to push the button)

Why would you use it? I use it all the time. My front yard is triangular. With the turning radius I always leave a wedge of uncut grass at an apex. Rather than turn in a big circle to cut it, I just back up over it to cut it. Or there is a small gap between my house and shop with no room to turn around.  There are lots of other instances.

Where's your imagination Ray! ) 

Gary


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## Ray C (Jun 13, 2013)

Still _imagining (wishing?) _what it would be like to have enough space to need a riding mower.  My neighbors are 15-20 feet away.  One is OK, the other is annoying.  Wish I had more space between us -about 100 feet would do nicely.

Ray





GaryK said:


> It doesn't engage the blade. It just allows you to go in reverse with the blade engaged. If you try to go in reverse without pressing the button the motor bogs down. (not sure if it will actually stop since it reminds me to push the button)
> 
> Why would you use it? I use it all the time. My front yard is triangular. With the turning radius I always leave a wedge of uncut grass at an apex. Rather than turn in a big circle to cut it, I just back up over it to cut it. Or there is a small gap between my house and shop with no room to turn around. There are lots of other instances.
> 
> ...


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## MikeWi (Jun 13, 2013)

Ray C said:


> Still _imagining (wishing?) _what it would be like to have enough space to need a riding mower.  My neighbors are 15-20 feet away.  One is OK, the other is annoying.  Wish I had more space between us -about 100 feet would do nicely.
> 
> Ray


 That's why I moved to WI.  3 acres in a rural area.Closest neighbor is about 220 feet away.


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## rdfoster (Jun 13, 2013)

Three acres is nice but it takes a lot of time to mow that comes from machining.

Bob


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## fastback (Jun 13, 2013)

I have 2 acres and need to cut the grass every 3 to 4 days.  Yes, it take a good deal of time but its worth it, I do not have neighbor problems.  My closes neighbor is a retired machinist.  I got his Gestner 7 draw tool box.  

The key to large yards is to have the largest mower you can afford.  I have a 44, 46 and 52 inch deck on as many tractors.  Oh, I also have one with a loader and backhoe.


More land equates to more room for buildings and more tools.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, some tractors have an over ride setting on the ignition switch so you can mow in reverse as necessary, no button required.  The older models don't have such switches and you can back up without the over ride.


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## MikeWi (Jun 13, 2013)

Yep, I have a 50" Cub that we normally use (it's "only" 3 hours total time).  If I'm feeling lazy I'll break out the Ford 2N with the 60" bush hog for the back part of the yard.  Not as nice a cut, but it's a lot more comfortable and quicker.


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## Ray C (Jun 13, 2013)

Three adult sons still living at home.  Machine shop time not negotiable.  End of story  :jester:




rdfoster said:


> Three acres is nice but it takes a lot of time to mow that comes from machining.
> 
> Bob


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## UncleRuss (Sep 8, 2013)

Ray C said:


> Three adult sons still living at home.  Machine shop time not negotiable.  End of story  :jester:



Ray, I understand your replies much better now.  I can see by this you are indeed a very patient, understanding man.  Wife is probably the same.  )


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