# CDCO 5C Collet Chuck Review



## Charley Davidson

I finally mounted my collet chuck to the mounting plate, I must say I'm quite disappointed in the quality. It doesn't operate very smoothly, the tolerances were very poor, the collets I got were very light weight and poorly deburred, After looking at the Hardinge ones at work they don't even compare.

I chucked a piece of steel rod in the 4 jaw at work and turned it to 1.00" then put it in my lathe 4 jaw and trued it up, chucked the 1" collet in the collet chuck and slipped it over the 1" rod then tightened it down. I then faced off the mating surfaces and then trued the inside of the outer ring that the bolt holes are in. After getting that done I mounted the backing plate on the lathe spindle and turned it to fit the recess in the collet chuck. It fit perfectly.

After filing all the burs off I assembled it and put it on the lathe, I chucked a 1/2" pin from my gauge pin set. I indicated it and unfortunately I have .0035 total run out.  Here's some pics and videos (not in ant specific order)


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## lazyLathe

OOOPS!!! I miss understood some of the write up...
Looked at the pictures...
Do you have the video?

I would still try #4 to see if you can reduce the run out.


Thanks for the write up Charley.

Why do you have it mounted in your 4 jaw chuck?

Correct me if i am wrong but i think the correct way to do it is:
1- Buy a backing plate to match your lathes nose threads.
2- Mount it to the lathe and true it up
3- Drill the holes to mount the 5C collet to the backing plate. Make them slightly larger so that you have a bit of wiggle room.
4- Chuck up your 1" test bar and tighten the 5C chuck to the backing plate while checking run out with a dial indicator.

You should have much better if not perfectly acceptable results.

By mounting it in your 4 jaw you are compounding the inaccuracies inherent in the 4 jaw.

Andrew


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## Charley Davidson

I used the 4 jaw to true up the back of the collet chuck, it was way out of whack and had to be done that way. I did try to mount it into another collet but decided not to go that way. I tried it the way you mentioned but decided to make it a perfect fit to the back plate. It is mounted to a backing plate


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## Charley Davidson

Here's the video, couldnt share it so I just put up the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ePY5viNTsE&list=UUeJ_aYFS4Xx8z1s1N-LXQ3w&index=1&feature=plcp


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## 75Plus

Watching the video the face is true but what about the periphery?


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## Kennyd

Thanks Charley.  Do you feel it was worth saving a few dollars over getting a better one?  Like the one from LMS: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3047&category=-199764519


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## Charley Davidson

Kennyd said:


> Thanks Charley.  Do you feel it was worth saving a few dollars over getting a better one?  Like the one from LMS: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3047&category=-199764519



Absolutly not!!!!!!  If I had it to do over I would but the one from your link or at least do some more shopping, the one in your link the mounting plate comes machined and drilled to fit the collet chuck. If it's out of round you just ship it back, now that I've machined mine I own it 

CDCO does ship out their product quickly.


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## Charley Davidson

Looking back at my review of this tool I failed to mention it was very hard to turn the T handle as it would hangup at each full revolution. I took it apart last night and found the gears were mangled as if it were 50 years old and abused every day. I filed one so it turns smooth and left the other out. I plan on calling Frank on Monday and requesting (demanding) a new set removed from another and sent to me or I will ship it all back and never buy from him again and recomend everybody on all the forums I belong to to steer clear of him.:biggrin:


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## Kennyd

WOW, good luck with Frank!  No personal experience but I have read many negative things, along with some positive also.


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## lazyLathe

Hi Charlie, 

Watching the video I saw one thing that I have been corrected for on a few other forums that could lead to some issues.
Tool overhang.

Wen you are turning the backing plate there is way too much tool overhang.
This causes flexing and could be part of the problem.

Just something I have had drilled into me and thought I would mention!
Good luck with Frank!!
Let us know how it goes!

Andrew


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## Charley Davidson

lazylathe said:


> Hi Charlie,
> 
> Watching the video I saw one thing that I have been corrected for on a few other forums that could lead to some issues.
> Tool overhang.
> 
> Wen you are turning the backing plate there is way too much tool overhang.
> This causes flexing and could be part of the problem.
> 
> Just something I have had drilled into me and thought I would mention!
> Good luck with Frank!!
> Let us know how it goes!
> 
> Andrew



The gear issue was a problem from day one even before I did anything but turn the chuck T handle. As far as tool overhang and flexing I don't think it was an issue with anything as the chuck back was turned perfectly flat and verified on a surface plate and dial indicator. I took very light cuts.  I know it's not a good idea to do it that way but my only option at the time.


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## 8ntsane

Im not sure as why you went the route you did?
If this was me, If the chuck didnt feel right, I would have sent it back , after inspection.

Lets start from scratch here. You bought a new chuck, and new back plate. Assuming from the same seller, not that it matters. The back plate would be the first thing to fit up on your lathe. About all you should be required to do is take a skim cut to ensure it true. Second, cut the register step to fit the chuck. Both these operations on your lathe spindle. This would make both operations as accurate as your lathe is.

In some cases, you may be required to put the bolt pattern on the back plate to mount up. After all three of these things are done, mount it up, and check for run out. Now after indicating , you have run out issues, it can only be in a few places.
First thing would be a bad collet, it is possible. Id pull the collet,and indicate the ID of the chuck it self. Narrow it down, collet, or the chuck!

Providing you have trued the back plate as mentioned above, and indicated it to prove your work is accurate, the only places to check are the collets, and or the chuck its self. In either case, ship it back. I would not hang the chuck off your 4 jaw like that, and do any cutting. I have seen guys do this, only to learn later the run out is in the collet, or debree in the assembly. From what I understand this chuck/ back plate/ and collets are new. The only thing you should be cutting is the back plate, thats un avoidable. Past that ship the items that cause issues back.

Charley, just another thing comes to mind. Have you ever checked your spindle bearing ajustment?  Might want to get the indicaters out, and just check this, make certain your spindle isnt floating around on loose bearings. Dont be surprized if they are in need of ajustment. Good luck with this.


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## Charley Davidson

8ntsane said:


> Im not sure as why you went the route you did?
> If this was me, If the chuck didnt feel right, I would have sent it back , after inspection.
> 
> Lets start from scratch here. You bought a new chuck, and new back plate. Assuming from the same seller, not that it matters. The back plate would be the first thing to fit up on your lathe. About all you should be required to do is take a skim cut to ensure it true. Second, cut the register step to fit the chuck. Both these operations on your lathe spindle. This would make both operations as accurate as your lathe is.
> 
> In some cases, you may be required to put the bolt pattern on the back plate to mount up. After all three of these things are done, mount it up, and check for run out. Now after indicating , you have run out issues, it can only be in a few places.
> First thing would be a bad collet, it is possible. Id pull the collet,and indicate the ID of the chuck it self. Narrow it down, collet, or the chuck!
> 
> Providing you have trued the back plate as mentioned above, and indicated it to prove your work is accurate, the only places to check are the collets, and or the chuck its self. In either case, ship it back. I would not hang the chuck off your 4 jaw like that, and do any cutting. I have seen guys do this, only to learn later the run out is in the collet, or debree in the assembly. From what I understand this chuck/ back plate/ and collets are new. The only thing you should be cutting is the back plate, thats un avoidable. Past that ship the items that cause issues back.
> 
> Charley, just another thing comes to mind. Have you ever checked your spindle bearing ajustment?  Might want to get the indicaters out, and just check this, make certain your spindle isnt floating around on loose bearings. Dont be surprized if they are in need of ajustment. Good luck with this.



Dumb people do dumb things & what's done is done now I just have to fix it. I checked my lathe spindle for runout and had none. All of the collets I have checked have the same runout so I would assume all my runout issues are in the chuck it's self and I'm sure I'll get it to .001 or less TRO with a little work. I read some articles on this and in a nutshell it's kinda how they did it.  As far as the "Register" on the back plate I know nothing about that topic and only was brought to my attention by Benny after I had done everything. Still not sure about what it is or really means. Enlighten me on "Register"


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## Tony Wells

"Register" is the term referring to the close fitting interface between two separate pieces of an assembly. In the case of a back plate and chuck, once the back plate is firmly in position on the spindle, however it is mounted, be it tapered, pins, threads, or whatever, there is a turned and faced feature of the back plate that should have virtually zero runout (TIR, or Total Indicator Reading, or Total Indicated Runout). The chuck, whether a collet, 3 jaw, 4 jaw, or 6 jaw, has a precision machined (ground in some cases) bore that fits very closely on the mating feature on the backing plate. This interface is often called the "register". It is of the utmost importance that this interface be kept clean and burr-free, and fit with a very few tenths of clearance.


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## 8ntsane

Charley
Tony has done a good job explaining what the register is. Now let me ask you a few questions here. The register that sticks out on your back plate, and fits into the back of your chuck, is it a tight fit?  Did you have to draw the chuck up to get it on, or did you have to use a dead blow hammer? Or did your chuck just slap right up against the back plat, and you bolted it up?

Ok enough questions,, here is a few things to look at.
The register that protrudes out from your back plate, should fit snug, not a pressed fit , that you would need to pull the chuck up to the plates with the bolts. If that is the case, then you need to take a skim cut on just the edge, the same edge that fits into your chuck. If it allready fits ok, then use a DTI and run it on that edge, if you havnt machined it ye, you might find there is the source of runout.

Anothe thing to be aware of. The register on the back plate, should have a decent chamfer on it, and should not be just cut squared . The chamfer is needed to help get the chuck started on the register, and is allso needed to prevent carving metal off as you install your chuck. Inspect the ID of the back of the chuck, see any scratches?  Now in the event that the chuck just slipped right into place, and just bolted up. That would be a different thing. In that case, loosen the mounting bolts, just a tad. Then set up you indicater again, bring the hi reading up to 12 o clock. The strike the chuck with a dead blow hammer to bring it down. If the chuck has enough play on the register, you can take the runout away , by shifting the chuck. Just think of how a set true type chuck is (set true).

Her is another thing to look at.
You most likely had to drill the bolt pattern on the backing plate, for the chuck.
Does any of the bolts bind at all ? And yes, just a little makes a differance. You should be able to screw all the bolts in with your fingers. If your using the bolts to draw the chuck up to the plate, you should be able to unscrew all of them with your fingers.The next thing, did you chamfer the holes on the back plate? and I mean the side that rests up against your chuck. These should be chamfered, and check with a light stoneing to ensure there is no hi spots pushing your chuck out of true.

I know this is long winded on my behalf, but,,,I have learned over all these yrs. There is a multitude of ways to have a chuck install bite your ass. These may not be anything that is effecting you. I just want you to be aware of the common things that bite most of us. How do I know?  lol Dont ask! Been there, done that, got the key chain, the bumper sticker, the T-shirt,,,,,,,,,


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## Tony Wells

All good points, Paul. I was giving the abbreviated version. I'm glad you filled in some of the gaps. I think many people overlook something that seems so basic as chuck mounting. It it isn't right, it's nearly impossible to do precision work.


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## Charley Davidson

All those things were pretty much done (Accidentally) for the most part but were done. I forgot to mark the mating pieces when I took them apart to fix the gear issue but that turned out to be a blessing in disguise. After reassembling it and checking runout tonight I got .0005 on the ground surface of the collet holder & .0025 on the 1/2" collet with a pin in it, .003 with 1/4" collet with a pin in it both about 1" out from the collet. So the runout now seems to be the collets themselves.

Checking the lathe spindle I got .0002 on the inside dia. and .0000 on the outside.


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## Tony Wells

I would consider that unacceptable for collet work. I'd be looking for <0.0002 TIR. If it's the collets, and they were spec'd to be <0.0002, I'd return them as rejects. RTV


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## Charley Davidson

called Frank this morning while waiting on someone on the job site, told him about the gear issue and he said he was sending 2 new gears out to me today:thinking: If he does as he says I guess I have no real beef about the holder it's self. Would like to know what material they are madse of so I could heat treat them.


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## Charley Davidson

*Buyer Be Ware*

After a month & a 1/2 of constant hounding & lame excuses I finally got my gears, I do not believe I would have gotten them if I had not been persistent. With the overall bad quality of the tool & the poor service I would say you should steer clear of CDCO & Frank all together. JMHO:whistle:


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## AR1911

I had considered that collet chuck, so appreciate the info.
I've mostly had good luck with CDCO service over about 4 orders. but the last time I ordered, he charged my card when I placed the order online. Then he promptly forgot my order. Something about getting ready for a show, so sorry. It took 2 phone calls to get him to ship me the stuff I paid for 2 months before.

CDCO isn't entirely off my list, but they are a last resort.
Mostly I use Enco and Shars, and I take a look at H&H


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## 8ntsane

*Re: Buyer Be Ware*



Charley Davidson said:


> After a month & a 1/2 of constant hounding & lame excuses I finally got my gears, I do not believe I would have gotten them if I had not been persistent. With the overall bad quality of the tool & the poor service I would say you should steer clear of CDCO & Frank all together. JMHO:whistle:



Charley, What was the hold up with your gears? Did they have to order them, and wait for shipment.? It kind of sucks you were held up that long. But I suppose , lesson learned with any parts. Inspect them really good, and if you see a problem, send them back right away. 

I know that the supplyers here tell me that they have shipments come across once per month, so your 6 week wait could be justified.


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## Charley Davidson

He took the gears out of a collet chuck he had in stock, there really was no legitimate reason to have to wait that long, he had promised to send them out the next day after I called him the first time. From what I've heard from other sources he does that till you just give up. The quality was poor also.

The gears he sent me don't look too promising either


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## 8ntsane

Charley Davidson said:


> He took the gears out of a collet chuck he had in stock, there really was no legitimate reason to have to wait that long, he had promised to send them out the next day after I called him the first time. From what I've heard from other sources he does that till you just give up. The quality was poor also.
> 
> The gears he sent me don't look too promising either




Oh, well thats just gotta leave a bad taste after a dealing like that. Did you have a chance to install them yet? Hopfully they turn smoother and dont have tight spots.

Thats a real bummer, sorry to hear things went that way Charley


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## Splat

I'm sorry to hear of your experience Charley. I'll never buy from CDCO. I've almost bought from them and now glad I didn't.


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## 8ntsane

Splat said:


> I'm sorry to hear of your experience Charley. I'll never buy from CDCO. I've almost bought from them and now glad I didn't.




I think there is a lesson learned here.
CDCO no doubt only resells products from different supplyers. They dont manufacture them in house.  When purchasing any product, the buyer should fully inspect the product, and if defects/problems are found, then simply ship it back. Get a refund/ exchange and if you do modify the product, you can only expect more problems.

Im not personally defending this company. I have never used them before. But, the chain of events that has gone down with this collet chuck could have been avoided. Now Im not sure if it works the same in the US, but in Canada, if your purchase is paid for with a credit card, and you have any issues, call the CC company. They will question you as to what the problem is, and if your complaint is reasonable, they will tell you, ship it back to them. They will rip the money charged to your card right back out of the sellers account.

Common reasons people use there card on many items are getting defective parts, the shipping has been delayed for unreasonable time frame, just to name a few. Assuming the CC companys are the same in the USA, the vendors that sell thess products, and accept CCards, know that they have not only the customer to deal with, they have a CC company as well.

Guys, inspect your items before doing anything to them. Im sure if Charley is to order items from CDCO or any where else, he will be much more picky about the way things go.
Nobody deserves all the BS, but there are ways to protect your self .


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## Splat

8ntsane said:


> Im not personally defending this company. I have never used them before. But, the chain of events that has gone down with this collet chuck could have been avoided. Now Im not sure if it works the same in the US, but in Canada, if your purchase is paid for with a credit card, and you have any issues, call the CC company. They will question you as to what the problem is, and if your complaint is reasonable, they will tell you, ship it back to them. They will rip the money charged to your card right back out of the sellers account.



I agree with all you wrote, Paul, and it is the same here in the US with the CC companies. When I hear more negatives than positives about a seller/retailer I stay away. If they have something I absolutely cannot find anywhere else and the price is OK then I might take the chance. There's too many other sellers out there that'll treat you right and you'd not have to worry about the whole transaction.


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## Charley Davidson

Used a Visa bank check card, don't know if they do the same for you or not?


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## MattTheHat

Charley Davidson said:
			
		

> Used a Visa bank check card, don't know if they do the same for you or not?



Absolutely.  I've had to do so two or thee times on my Visa check card over the last 15 years or so.

-Matt


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## swatson144

Not defending CDCO nor the way he treated CD! I'm simply stating that I have ordered from them several times and have had no problems. You generally get what you pay for and since they are the cheapest place I have found for many items I only order stuff that pretty much just has to go together like QCTP tool holders for 9$, quill stops, etc. I really don't think I'd order a chuck from them unless it was special purpose like if I had a 12" four jaw mounted I might see buying a 6" 3 jaw and chucking it in the 4 jaw to limit changing etc. If the chuck truely sucked I'd hope to make it up with the 4 jaw. I don't think I'd buy collets for any reason but sacrificial. Drills or cutting tools nope.

I believe a company is only as good as their support when something goes wrong. If I need something and I'm counting on it I'll spend more money elsewhere. If it'd be nice to have a couple more L handed golleywatchets in the shop I'll save some money with CDCO provided it isn't something needing high quality.

Steve


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## Charley Davidson

swatson144 said:


> Not defending CDCO nor the way he treated CD! I'm simply stating that I have ordered from them several times and have had no problems. You generally get what you pay for and since they are the cheapest place I have found for many items I only order stuff that pretty much just has to go together like QCTP tool holders for 9$, quill stops, etc. I really don't think I'd order a chuck from them unless it was special purpose like if I had a 12" four jaw mounted I might see buying a 6" 3 jaw and chucking it in the 4 jaw to limit changing etc. If the chuck truely sucked I'd hope to make it up with the 4 jaw. I don't think I'd buy collets for any reason but sacrificial. Drills or cutting tools nope.
> 
> I believe a company is only as good as their support when something goes wrong. If I need something and I'm counting on it I'll spend more money elsewhere. If it'd be nice to have a couple more L handed golleywatchets in the shop I'll save some money with CDCO provided it isn't something needing high quality.
> 
> 
> Steve



This was my first purchase with CDCO and I was impressed with how quick he sent it out and I then ordered again from him a couple days later minor stuff and was sent out promptly, But true service is what happens after the sale, and he proved not to be a service after the sale guy.


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## Splat

swatson144 said:


> If it'd be nice to have a couple more L handed golleywatchets in the shop I'll save some money with CDCO provided it isn't something needing high quality.



"L handed golleywatchets?!"  Damn, something else I gotta buy now!??!  First I gotta find out what the hell they are! :biggrin:


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