# What kind of welder to get?



## HarryJM (Feb 2, 2018)

Hey everyone,

I’m in the process of converting my 10’x14’ backyard shed into my workshop and currently researching what kind of welder to buy. I currently do not have power and plan on having a 30 amp panel installed.

So as usual first question will be “what kind of welding are you planning on doing?” and that can be answered with a little of my background and future plans.
In my mid-20’s to mid-30’s I worked as a motorcycle mechanic and was fairly proficient with acetylene and arch welding and one winter I had a full time job TIG or MIG (not sure) welding galvanized. Now, in my very early 70’s I work in the IT department of a trucking company and plan on retiring in within a few years to start my metal working phase of life. So far I have purchased a Logan 10” lathe, Burke 124 horizontal end mill with vertical attachment, Craftsman/Atlas power hacksaw, and a Craftsman 150 drill press.

I can think of several hobby type projects where a welder would be useful to have such as building a: lathe steady rest, drill press slow speed attachment, bench belt sander, etc.

My understanding is that there are several common types of welding:
                Arc
                MIG
                TIG
                Flue-core
                Acetylene

So what kind of welder did you buy, why did you buy it and what do you use it for?

Price wise I would like to keep it under five hundred dollars.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Harry


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## Alan H. (Feb 2, 2018)

First piece of advice is to bump your power up.    30 amps for a shop is a bit too light.

I will leave the advice on what welder to get because I am not much good at staying within budgets.


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## benmychree (Feb 2, 2018)

I agree as to your electrical power, 30 amps is too little; better 50, best 100A; that would cover any welding machine(s) that you might want now or in the future.  I'd focus first on a MIG machine, then one that could do TIG and stick; acetylene is good to have too.  Budgets ?????????? not in my vocabulary.


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## ttabbal (Feb 2, 2018)

I agree, more power. 240V 30A will run one, maybe two things if I'm lucky. And that doesn't include lighting, climate control, etc.. If I were to run a sub-panel to the shop area, it would be 100A then I would just do branch circuits as needed. I've blown a 40A breaker when I was doing something else and forgot to turn off the compressor. 

I own two welding setups. Oxy/Acetylene and MIG. For welding, I only use the MIG. Gas welding is annoying, but it's nice for cutting. My MIG is a Lincoln SP175 I believe, it's a 220V machine. I run it with the common CO2/Argon mix and solid wire. I can do 1/4" steel without issues with it. Much more and I would have to do V-grooves to get good penetration. 

If I were buying today, I would still get the MIG. The gas I got mostly for cutting and plasma cutters have come down in cost so much that I would likely skip gas can get plasma. There are some decent stick/TIG machines out there that might be interesting as well. Particularly if I were to want to weld a lot of aluminum.


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## wrmiller (Feb 2, 2018)

I need TIG for the heat control/small weld capability, and AC/DC so I can weld aluminum. I have my eye on the digital one on the Eastwood site.

If I can ever afford to buy it.


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## Redmech (Feb 2, 2018)

Simple answer, I like my Hobart Handler 140. Its 110 volt powered, and is a good quality made in USA mig welder. It’ll run right at 500$. It has a lower duty cycle, but for a hobby guy, you have plenty of time grinding, cutting, and setup, that gives you plenty to do while welding. Good machine. I’d like to add a TIG welder down the line for welding aluminum and maybe someday stainless.


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## Groundhog (Feb 2, 2018)

Since you know how to weld with Oxy/Acetylene that is the first thing I would get. (I have Oxy/Acetylene, mig and tig welders with life experience similar to yours).
You can weld about anything with the Oxy/Acetylene that you can with the others, maybe not as fast or as pretty but it should hold together fine. On top of that you can cut, heat to bend, case harden, temper and anneal,and suck on the oxygen for hang-over relief. You can usually find a good complete set in local buy&trade sites. Be sure to check with your supplier about their policies on tanks (sometimes they make you re-certify which is very expensive). Get a good name brand that your welding supply supports. Victor is hard to beat.


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## FOMOGO (Feb 2, 2018)

At $500 I'd Say the Hobart as mentioned above would fill the bill. I picked one up last year because of the 110v, for portable use. It's a nice little machine, and does pretty much anything my big one will. If you get a spool gun for it later, you will have the option of doing aluminum, and tri-mix gas for stainless. Like Mike said above Oxy/Acetylene would also be an option, but getting setup for $500 is going to be tough. Mike


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## cg285 (Feb 2, 2018)

i have several machines but back when i had them at my shop i bought a hobart 185 for the house. great little machine.
the 140 fits your budget but i would still go with the now 190. 
everyone should also have o/a in my opinion but it takes a skill set that most today do not want to learn. (the skills transfer to tig and mig tho')
AND if you have the skills you can do *A LOT* with a henrob 2000


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## owl (Feb 2, 2018)

f you don't plan to weld regularly, and aren't building something where the weld is either critical, or involving thick steel, I agree that the Hobart handler, or the equivalent Lincoln are a good choice.  Either flux core welders or stick welders can sit in a corner and not cost a lot to store (although your stick electrodes may go bad if exposed to damp.  Mig welders, Tig welders or gas welders involve storing tanks.  Some of that equipment is pricey as well, and may require more use to keep your hand in.  If you intend to do brazing, or heat straightening, or some such, you might be better off with an oxy acetylene rig.


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## Kernbigo (Feb 2, 2018)

I agree the hobart 140 is the way to go ,put it on a 20 amp breaker and you are set to go.


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## HarryJM (Feb 2, 2018)

Alan H said:


> First piece of advice is to bump your power up.    30 amps for a shop is a bit too light.
> 
> I will leave the advice on what welder to get because I am not much good at staying within budgets.





Alan H said:


> First piece of advice is to bump your power up.    30 amps for a shop is a bit too light.
> 
> I will leave the advice on what welder to get because I am not much good at staying within budgets.



Hey Alan H,

First of all I really like your Triumph Bonneville! The first motorcycle shop I worked in was Hawkeye Motorcycle shop in Davenport IA. They sold Honda and Norton motorcycles I fell in love with Norton at that shop. My first Norton was a 750 Interstate which was stolen in Tampa FL and then I bough a wrecked Norton 850 Commando which I sold about about 25 years ago when I gave up riding.

Have been thinking a little more about power and starting to research heating for some of those cold winter days in the Piedmont area of North Carolina. So I plan seeing how much a 100 amp panel will cost as I do not want to be saying “boy I wish I had done that” later on down the road.

Anyway thanks for the feed back.
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 2, 2018)

benmychree said:


> I agree as to your electrical power, 30 amps is too little; better 50, best 100A; that would cover any welding machine(s) that you might want now or in the future.  I'd focus first on a MIG machine, then one that could do TIG and stick; acetylene is good to have too.  Budgets ?????????? not in my vocabulary.





benmychree said:


> I agree as to your electrical power, 30 amps is too little; better 50, best 100A; that would cover any welding machine(s) that you might want now or in the future.  I'd focus first on a MIG machine, then one that could do TIG and stick; acetylene is good to have too.  Budgets ?????????? not in my vocabulary.


Hey  benmychree,

Yes I am starting to rethink my electrical power and as my wife keeps telling my, “buy the best you can” when getting something new. Wow I'm a lucky guy! I'm starting to lean more to a MIG machine

Thanks for the feed back.
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 2, 2018)

ttabbal said:


> I agree, more power. 240V 30A will run one, maybe two things if I'm lucky. And that doesn't include lighting, climate control, etc.. If I were to run a sub-panel to the shop area, it would be 100A then I would just do branch circuits as needed. I've blown a 40A breaker when I was doing something else and forgot to turn off the compressor.
> 
> I own two welding setups. Oxy/Acetylene and MIG. For welding, I only use the MIG. Gas welding is annoying, but it's nice for cutting. My MIG is a Lincoln SP175 I believe, it's a 220V machine. I run it with the common CO2/Argon mix and solid wire. I can do 1/4" steel without issues with it. Much more and I would have to do V-grooves to get good penetration.
> 
> If I were buying today, I would still get the MIG. The gas I got mostly for cutting and plasma cutters have come down in cost so much that I would likely skip gas can get plasma. There are some decent stick/TIG machines out there that might be interesting as well. Particularly if I were to want to weld a lot of aluminum.


Hey  ttabbal,

The Lincoln SP 175 is on my radar as a potential welder as they seem to have a good reputation. As a matter of fact it was that machine that started me thinking about something more than a 30 amp panel.

Thanks for the feed back.
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 2, 2018)

wrmiller said:


> I need TIG for the heat control/small weld capability, and AC/DC so I can weld aluminum. I have my eye on the digital one on the Eastwood site.
> 
> If I can ever afford to buy it.


Hey  wrmiller,

I have also been reading about the benefits of AC/DC machines.

Thanks for the feed back.
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 2, 2018)

Redmech said:


> Simple answer, I like my Hobart Handler 140. Its 110 volt powered, and is a good quality made in USA mig welder. It’ll run right at 500$. It has a lower duty cycle, but for a hobby guy, you have plenty of time grinding, cutting, and setup, that gives you plenty to do while welding. Good machine. I’d like to add a TIG welder down the line for welding aluminum and maybe someday stainless.


Hey  Redmech,

I will keep the Hobart in mind although I'm starting to lean more to the TIG side due to its versatility.

Thanks for the feed back.
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 2, 2018)

Groundhog said:


> Since you know how to weld with Oxy/Acetylene that is the first thing I would get. (I have Oxy/Acetylene, mig and tig welders with life experience similar to yours).
> You can weld about anything with the Oxy/Acetylene that you can with the others, maybe not as fast or as pretty but it should hold together fine. On top of that you can cut, heat to bend, case harden, temper and anneal,and suck on the oxygen for hang-over relief. You can usually find a good complete set in local buy&trade sites. Be sure to check with your supplier about their policies on tanks (sometimes they make you re-certify which is very expensive). Get a good name brand that your welding supply supports. Victor is hard to beat.


Hey  Groundhog,

O/A would probably be my first choice if not for some other considerations such as the tanks and cost. While I am in good shape right now with very few aches and pains, I still have to consider the hauling those things up to my shed, which is an 75' uphill climb and that will not get easier with the coming years.

Thanks for the feed back.
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 2, 2018)

FOMOGO said:


> At $500 I'd Say the Hobart as mentioned above would fill the bill. I picked one up last year because of the 110v, for portable use. It's a nice little machine, and does pretty much anything my big one will. If you get a spool gun for it later, you will have the option of doing aluminum, and tri-mix gas for stainless. Like Mike said above Oxy/Acetylene would also be an option, but getting setup for $500 is going to be tough. Mike


Hey  FOMOGO,

Well the Hobart is now on my list as I was just reading about adding a spool gun as aluminum is defiantly on my list of metals to weld.

Thanks for the feed back.
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 2, 2018)

cg285 said:


> i have several machines but back when i had them at my shop i bought a hobart 185 for the house. great little machine.
> the 140 fits your budget but i would still go with the now 190.
> everyone should also have o/a in my opinion but it takes a skill set that most today do not want to learn. (the skills transfer to tig and mig tho')
> AND if you have the skills you can do *A LOT* with a henrob 2000


Hey  cg285,

I defiantly recognize Hobart as a time honored name in welding and will continue my research on them.

Thanks for the feed back.
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 2, 2018)

Kernbigo said:


> I agree the hobart 140 is the way to go ,put it on a 20 amp breaker and you are set to go.


Hey  Kernbigo,

As I have mentioned above, Hobart is a defiantly on my radar.

Thanks for the feed back.
Harry


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## Blackjackjacques (Feb 3, 2018)

That all depends on what you plan on welding.  If you see yourself regularly welding thick steel plates for structural purposes, then you will want a stick welder.  If you plan on doing aluminum or ornamental welding, then you want TIG.   If you plan on bike frame work, say steel tubular, etc, then MIG is on the menu, although TIG will also work nicely. Oxy Acet I save for burning and brazing type work.  If you held a gun to my head and asked me to pick only one, I would pick TIG as I can make it work for light gauge steel or aluminum up to respectable thicknesses, but this is based on the work I do.  I have all including a plasma cutter. My stick welder sits most of the time and the last time I used it was to weld 5/8-inch steel angle iron for an antenna bracket.  My mig comes out when I have not too precise steel work and I need a quick way to tack together some steel.  My tig is used when I want to lay down a nice bead say a stack of dimes.  Not that the mig cannot lay a nice bead, but tig is more forgiving for my limited welding skill/experience.  My Tig unit is a Everlast 250EX complete with water cooler and water-cooled torch, my mig is a Hobart handler 187, my stick welder Hobart LX 235 and plasma cutter Hobart 40i.  I put the stick/tig and plasma on one large wheeled cart complete with tanks, while the mig sits on its own stand.


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## cg285 (Feb 3, 2018)

HarryJM said:


> Hey  Groundhog,
> 
> O/A would probably be my first choice if not for some other considerations such as the tanks and cost. While I am in good shape right now with very few aches and pains, I still have to consider the hauling those things up to my shed, which is an 75' uphill climb and that will not get easier with the coming years.
> 
> ...



you will need a tank for your mig assuming you are not getting a small 120v flux core. either way that 75' uphill climb is not an issue for your side by side (utv)


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## SSage (Feb 3, 2018)

You can do a lot of miscellaneous steel welding with a 110 volt wire feed using flux core wire. I find myself using flux core on the quick and small projects because it's so convenient. If you're welding a good bit then use a mig set up. You can buy a small Hobart unit and load flux core when you don't have a bottle available. Some models do everything. The Hobart/Miller welders are good choices, I get my Hobart stuff at Tractor Supply. I also have an El cheapo flux core $79 110 volt wire feed welder from Harbor Freight, at that price you can have a nicer Hobart mig set up on a cart for your most common stuff and have the $79 HF flux core set up as a quick pick up and go unit. I've successfully repaired farm implements with a wire feed, it's so versatile, I don't have a stick welder anymore.


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## Groundhog (Feb 3, 2018)

Harry, I had another thought. A good tig welder is very versatile, can weld just about anything  and welds about like Ox/Acc (you need to add filler, just a different heat source). Mine also came with leads for stick welding. Of course you still have a bottle of gas to deal with.
Of my 3 welders (oxy/acc, mig and tig) the mig is the one I use least. I even sold the mig spool gun when I got my tig and am now considering selling it (the mig). However, I am proficent with the other 2 and do all my welding in one spot so portability is not important.


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## Cooter Brown (Feb 3, 2018)

GET A BLUE ONE!


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## cg285 (Feb 3, 2018)

mig, tig or stick - neither will heat something to cherry red (without destroying something)

seeing as how you are on a strict budget


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## cg285 (Feb 3, 2018)

Groundhog said:


> and suck on the oxygen for hang-over relief.


 
ha! just saw that. back in the day the pontiac dealer i worked for had emt's working there so therefore they had a bodacious first aid kit complete with air splints and OXYGEN which was used for just that purpose (with some severe reprimands)


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## mikey (Feb 3, 2018)

Harry, you've gotten some good advice and I can't add to it much. I just wanted to tell you that you will WANT Tig, Mig and an O/A set up - who wouldn't. But what you NEED is going to come down to what you do. 

I have an O/A rig with a standard Victor torch that I rarely use and a Meco Midget that I use a lot. It lets me silver solder stuff, gas weld and can produce welds in aluminum that rival Tig (although I need a lot more practice for that). It also allows me to harden larger tool steels that my Mapp gas torch won't manage. I also use it to heat steel projects that won't fit in my bender so I can bend it, and that is something to consider. I think an O/A set up is one of the most useful things a guy can have.

I also have a little Lincoln Mig. It's red, not blue, but it has worked flawlessly for over 20 years. For me, Mig is good because it takes the least skill to produce usable welds. It is also the fastest of the welding methods. When I need to make something from thin walled structural steel (work bench, machine stand, etc), Mig is what I use.  I'm not anywhere near the skill of guys like @firestopper (Paco) but nothing I've built has fallen down yet. One of my close friends is a journeyman welder and he says of my welding, "Well, Mike, it ain't pretty but it's sound" - about as close to an okay as I'm likely to get! I usually only weld stuff up to 1/4" thick so I have no real need for a stick welder; if I do a thicker piece I can bevel it and make multiple passes so the Mig is really useful to me. 

I WANT a Tig welder/plasma cutter/bigger mill/nicer this and that but I NEED a Mig and O/A set up. Your wants and needs may differ. Whatever you get, be sure to have the right safety equipment. Pay special attention to your optical protection gear and get the right gloves/leather apron/jacket/etc. 

Life was simpler and cheaper before I started working with metal. Problem was, I couldn't do much back then. I can do more now but I'm poorer ...


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## NortonDommi (Feb 3, 2018)

Where I am we have 240V 1-phase so have 50A. Got O/A. MIG, TIG & Stick,(AC & DC), but if I had to pick just one it would be O/A as there is not much you can't do with it. An option for occasional use that will do most things is a site welder. They are small, portable and will do 100A easy. A few like a friends Miller do DC TIG as well if you have gas and the torch.
  OR......... You could say bugger he budget and get one of these: http://multiplaz.com/


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## jdedmon91 (Feb 3, 2018)

I have a 110 v mig in my shop. It is an older discontinued Daytona MIG. Used it off and on for 20 years. Sits under the bench and I roll it out as needed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HarryJM (Feb 6, 2018)

Blackjackjacques said:


> That all depends on what you plan on welding.  If you see yourself regularly welding thick steel plates for structural purposes, then you will want a stick welder.  If you plan on doing aluminum or ornamental welding, then you want TIG.   If you plan on bike frame work, say steel tubular, etc, then MIG is on the menu, although TIG will also work nicely. Oxy Acet I save for burning and brazing type work.  If you held a gun to my head and asked me to pick only one, I would pick TIG as I can make it work for light gauge steel or aluminum up to respectable thicknesses, but this is based on the work I do.  I have all including a plasma cutter. My stick welder sits most of the time and the last time I used it was to weld 5/8-inch steel angle iron for an antenna bracket.  My mig comes out when I have not too precise steel work and I need a quick way to tack together some steel.  My tig is used when I want to lay down a nice bead say a stack of dimes.  Not that the mig cannot lay a nice bead, but tig is more forgiving for my limited welding skill/experience.  My Tig unit is a Everlast 250EX complete with water cooler and water-cooled torch, my mig is a Hobart handler 187, my stick welder Hobart LX 235 and plasma cutter Hobart 40i.  I put the stick/tig and plasma on one large wheeled cart complete with tanks, while the mig sits on its own stand.


Hey Blackjackjacques,

“What are you planning on ????” is a common response to my type of question. I caught the “buying old iron wood working and metal working machines” bug a few years ago after joining OWWM. So I'm sure my new metal working hobby will come in handy there. Sometimes I enjoy the journey as much or better than the destination.

Thanks,
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 6, 2018)

SSage said:


> You can do a lot of miscellaneous steel welding with a 110 volt wire feed using flux core wire. I find myself using flux core on the quick and small projects because it's so convenient. If you're welding a good bit then use a mig set up. You can buy a small Hobart unit and load flux core when you don't have a bottle available. Some models do everything. The Hobart/Miller welders are good choices, I get my Hobart stuff at Tractor Supply. I also have an El cheapo flux core $79 110 volt wire feed welder from Harbor Freight, at that price you can have a nicer Hobart mig set up on a cart for your most common stuff and have the $79 HF flux core set up as a quick pick up and go unit. I've successfully repaired farm implements with a wire feed, it's so versatile, I don't have a stick welder anymore.


Hey SSage,

Sounds like a MIG/flue setup would be just the right setup for me and will continue to research the Hobart/Miller welders.

Thanks,
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 6, 2018)

Groundhog said:


> Harry, I had another thought. A good tig welder is very versatile, can weld just about anything  and welds about like Ox/Acc (you need to add filler, just a different heat source). Mine also came with leads for stick welding. Of course you still have a bottle of gas to deal with.
> Of my 3 welders (oxy/acc, mig and tig) the mig is the one I use least. I even sold the mig spool gun when I got my tig and am now considering selling it (the mig). However, I am proficent with the other 2 and do all my welding in one spot so portability is not important.


Hey Groundhog,

Well looks like I need to do a little more TIG research.

Thanks,
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 6, 2018)

Cooter Brown said:


> GET A BLUE ONE!


Blue vs Red sounds to political.


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## HarryJM (Feb 6, 2018)

mikey said:


> Harry, you've gotten some good advice and I can't add to it much. I just wanted to tell you that you will WANT Tig, Mig and an O/A set up - who wouldn't. But what you NEED is going to come down to what you do.
> 
> I have an O/A rig with a standard Victor torch that I rarely use and a Meco Midget that I use a lot. It lets me silver solder stuff, gas weld and can produce welds in aluminum that rival Tig (although I need a lot more practice for that). It also allows me to harden larger tool steels that my Mapp gas torch won't manage. I also use it to heat steel projects that won't fit in my bender so I can bend it, and that is something to consider. I think an O/A set up is one of the most useful things a guy can have.
> 
> ...


Hey mikey,

While O/A is very appealing to me I'm really starting to lean toward MIG that seems to be very versatile and will probably handle any of the small projects I have in mind.

Thanks,
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 6, 2018)

NortonDommi said:


> Where I am we have 240V 1-phase so have 50A. Got O/A. MIG, TIG & Stick,(AC & DC), but if I had to pick just one it would be O/A as there is not much you can't do with it. An option for occasional use that will do most things is a site welder. They are small, portable and will do 100A easy. A few like a friends Miller do DC TIG as well if you have gas and the torch.
> OR......... You could say bugger he budget and get one of these: http://multiplaz.com/


Hey NortonDommi,

You member name brings back found memories of the 2 different Norton's I owned in the past. A 750 Interstate and 850 Commando.

Thanks,
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 6, 2018)

jdedmon91 said:


> I have a 110 v mig in my shop. It is an older discontinued Daytona MIG. Used it off and on for 20 years. Sits under the bench and I roll it out as needed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey jdedmon91,

Sounds like the kind of welder I want.

Thanks,
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 6, 2018)

Hey everyone,

I just want to say thanks for for taking the time to responding to my question.

Given that my soon to be converted storage shed to shop is a 14'x10' wood structure/floor I think a MIG/flux core welder would be, from a safety/fire issue, one of the safest option for welding inside a wood structure. And with enough practice it would be versatile enough for any of my anticipated welding projects and it does not take up a lot of floor space either, which is at a premium as is.

I do plan on having a least two appropriate fire extinguished installed, one at the entrance and one in the back. I will also invest in the appropriate welding safety gear as safely doing something is always one of my first considerations whether that be using wood working equipment, moving heavy objects, using a drill press/grinder/lathe/end mill safety, etc. I'm always thinking ahead as to what can happen along with what I plan on happening, in other words leaving myself a safely way to handle the unexpected.

Take care,
Harry


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## Blackjackjacques (Feb 6, 2018)

HarryJM said:


> Hey Blackjackjacques,
> 
> “What are you planning on ????” is a common response to my type of question. I caught the “buying old iron wood working and metal working machines” bug a few years ago after joining OWWM. So I'm sure my new metal working hobby will come in handy there. Sometimes I enjoy the journey as much or better than the destination.
> 
> ...


LOL - I agree - the journey is frequently better and I also caught the bug.  You probably already know this, but in case not - check out the youtube videos covering welding.  There is so much great content, and my favorite is Jodie on WeldingTipsandTricks - but there are many great and inspiring presenters - many complete with projects.  The overall technical content on YouTube is incredible and beats the devil out of broadcast (or even cable) TV.  Good luck!


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## Hawkeye (Feb 7, 2018)

I have a Hobart Handler 140. As mentioned repeatedly, it's a capable welder and will run on a 20 amp, 120 volt circuit, well within the proposed sub-feed. I loaned it to a friend and gave him a few lessons. My current unit is a Miller 211. It will run on either 120 volts or 240 volts. Has auto-set feaures. Really nice welder, but you won't get it for $500. You could, of course, let your wife talk you into it.


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## Hukshawn (Feb 7, 2018)

What’s the service to your house? (The main breaker panel) 100a? 200a? ... 60a?
If you have 100a, send a 60 amps to the shed. If you have 200a, send 100. If you have 60a main service cause the house is old, you can’t send anything. hire an electrician and upgrade that lickity-split.


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## HarryJM (Feb 7, 2018)

Blackjackjacques said:


> LOL - I agree - the journey is frequently better and I also caught the bug.  You probably already know this, but in case not - check out the youtube videos covering welding.  There is so much great content, and my favorite is Jodie on WeldingTipsandTricks - but there are many great and inspiring presenters - many complete with projects.  The overall technical content on YouTube is incredible and beats the devil out of broadcast (or even cable) TV.  Good luck!


Yes the youtube videos can help you learn just about anything you want – just have to have enough common sense to wade through and figure out the good from the bad.
Greensboro NC has a place called The Forge which is like a community workspace that has all kinds of wood/metal working equipment and they have a Saturday welding class with hands on experience. So that will be a good educational experience for me.


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## HarryJM (Feb 7, 2018)

Hawkeye said:


> I have a Hobart Handler 140. As mentioned repeatedly, it's a capable welder and will run on a 20 amp, 120 volt circuit, well within the proposed sub-feed. I loaned it to a friend and gave him a few lessons. My current unit is a Miller 211. It will run on either 120 volts or 240 volts. Has auto-set feaures. Really nice welder, but you won't get it for $500. You could, of course, let your wife talk you into it.


Looks like Hobart and Lincoln make some welders in the $500 range that seem to have good reviews.
My wife totally supports me on this and the conversion of the shed (which includes wiring up the shed) to my workshop will come out of our house hold expenses. We will be getting some estimates this summer for installing a whole house standby generator along with running a sub-plane to the shed. The buying of tools is from my monthly allowance of which I am saving up for buying equipment, etc.


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## HarryJM (Feb 7, 2018)

Hukshawn said:


> What’s the service to your house? (The main breaker panel) 100a? 200a? ... 60a?
> If you have 100a, send a 60 amps to the shed. If you have 200a, send 100. If you have 60a main service cause the house is old, you can’t send anything. hire an electrician and upgrade that lickity-split.


As I just mentioned to Hawkeye, I will be getting an estimate this summer for installing a whole house stand by generator and running a sub-panel to my new shop. Was planning on a 30 amp and will be reconsidering that as adding a welder and some kind of heating for the winter will probably need more than 30 amps. As with anything else I will do my homework.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Feb 7, 2018)

I use my Miller 250x  MIG off a 40amp stove plug. It's a 50amp machine.  I've never tripped the breaker, nor do I ever expect to. My son uses his Hobart power unit off a 30amp dryer plug.


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## Aukai (Feb 7, 2018)

My previous electrician went awol after removing my 50 amp 220v outlet. I'm lucky my Miller 211 could run on 110v, saved the day till my 220v was back in. If you are only doing thin material a 110v (less then 3/16) only unit will do. On thicker projects you may run into duty cycle issues


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## Robert LaLonde (Feb 7, 2018)

I hate to say it, but welding can be an all encompassing hobby in and of itself, and unless you plan to just push flux wire for mild steel you better plan bigger on your electrical budget.  

That being said, I do push flux wire for mild steel.  It is in my opinion the absolute easiest type of weld to do.  I also have a dual gun, dual bottle, dual regulator MIG setup for steel and aluminum.  Literally just drop one gun and pick up the other, I've also got two little suitcase 110V units setup for flux core (and I use them), an AC cracker box that burns rod upto 1/8" almost as fast as I can pick up another rod, a piggy back TIG to run on top of the cracker box for light AC tigging aluminum, and of course an OA rig that hasn't had a welding tip on it in ten years, but its the first way I ever learned how to weld.  

One thing in your post got my attention, and I am surprised nobody commented on it.  You had a job specifically welding galvanized.  I am going to assume you had a proper safety setup, but comment for those who might not know.  Welding galvanized is exceptionally hazardous.  The fumes are pretty toxic.  I do it occasionally, but only outdoors with my flux core rig, and the wind (or a fan) setup to carry the fumes away from me and disburse them.  

Anyway, a combo TIG/STICK rig is pretty versatile.  For mild steel flux core mig is the easiest way to weld I know of.  If you plan to make and repair decorative fences its the way to go and you can plug it in anywhere.  Of course the duty cycle will be measured in inches, but its cheap and easy.  Even cheaper for me growing up was OA welding.  We had a country general store and I had an endless supply of wire clothes hangers for filler rod.  

P.S.  I am not a welder.  I am not good at welding.  I would hire a shop in a heartbeat for my more important projects, but I have never had a welding shop do my projects in the time they said or even two or three times the time they said, and by the time they got to my job they forgot what I wanted and did it wrong.  That's why I learned to weld aluminum.  LOL.


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## cg285 (Feb 7, 2018)

HarryJM said:


> As I just mentioned to Hawkeye, I will be getting an estimate this summer for installing a whole house stand by generator and running a sub-panel to my new shop. Was planning on a 30 amp and will be reconsidering that as adding a welder and some kind of heating for the winter will probably need more than 30 amps. As with anything else I will do my homework.



so you plan to power your shed with a generator?


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## HarryJM (Feb 7, 2018)

Downwindtracker2 said:


> I use my Miller 250x  MIG off a 40amp stove plug. It's a 50amp machine.  I've never tripped the breaker, nor do I ever expect to. My son uses his Hobart power unit off a 30amp dryer plug.


Hey Downwindtrack,

I'm still in the gathering info stage and would like to have more than a 30 amp panel as I would like to run some kind of heater during the winter days.

Thanks,
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 7, 2018)

Aukai said:


> My previous electrician went awol after removing my 50 amp 220v outlet. I'm lucky my Miller 211 could run on 110v, saved the day till my 220v was back in. If you are only doing thin material a 110v (less then 3/16) only unit will do. On thicker projects you may run into duty cycle issues


Hey Aukai,

Yes I'm starting to think about duty cycle, etc and the responses to my question are giving me plenty to ponder about.

Thanks,
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 7, 2018)

Bob La Londe said:


> I hate to say it, but welding can be an all encompassing hobby in and of itself, and unless you plan to just push flux wire for mild steel you better plan bigger on your electrical budget.
> 
> That being said, I do push flux wire for mild steel.  It is in my opinion the absolute easiest type of weld to do.  I also have a dual gun, dual bottle, dual regulator MIG setup for steel and aluminum.  Literally just drop one gun and pick up the other, I've also got two little suitcase 110V units setup for flux core (and I use them), an AC cracker box that burns rod upto 1/8" almost as fast as I can pick up another rod, a piggy back TIG to run on top of the cracker box for light AC tigging aluminum, and of course an OA rig that hasn't had a welding tip on it in ten years, but its the first way I ever learned how to weld.
> 
> ...


Hey Bob La Londe,

Not sure where my welding will take me so I am leaning towards a decent MIG/flue core as that would probably be a good setup for a beginner.

If I remember right the galvanized welding was on some kind of long box like structure with each internal individual boxes around two feet square. And yes I learned really quick to take a very deep breather before welding as the fumes were very toxic. This was a winter job during the non-motorcycle riding season in Davenport IA, probably sometime around the mid 1970's and no safety stuff back then.

Yes I'm starting to understand the significance of duty cycle and as with any new hobby doing prudent research before buying, which this thread is helping to figure out what which questions to ask myself, make a decision and see where it leads you.

Thanks,
Harry


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## Aukai (Feb 7, 2018)

I am not a fan of running equipment rated for more amps than a circuit is rated for, I hear it is done frequently with no issues, and I am not being critical. I do not wish to gamble my house on a 10 dollar circuit breaker.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Feb 8, 2018)

At work we had a couple of the old,now, 400amp Miller transformer welders. It was very ,very rare that we used them over 150amp. That's about what I used with 5/32 7018 rod. So when I weld 1/4" with .035 with my Miller250x MIG, I'm not pushing it. It'll run .045 on 1/2 "plate.

It's a single purpose machine, though I have spool gun and tank for aluminum , I find I'm eyeing the TIG stick combos . On aluminum I'm limited to 1/8" and up. Less than that, it's pretty tricky.

These are expensive machines,  around here about $3000 for the Millers. Even the latest 250 Miller MIG series are about that now. The later ones are better MIGs, BTW.


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## coherent (Feb 8, 2018)

If you have any need or desire to weld aluminum you need a TIG, A TIG will also allow you to stick weld. If not, a MIG is the best choice. The little 110v are handy, but get one that is 110/220 and an argon setup so you can weld thicker metal and still be able to transport and use 110 and flux core for stuff. I highly recommend the Millers. I have a victor O/A set and can't remember the last time I used it. In fact if anyone in Arizona is looking for a small set with tanks and cart, I'll sell it cheap!


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## Robert LaLonde (Feb 8, 2018)

Downwindtracker2 said:


> On aluminum I'm limited to 1/8" and up. Less than that, it's pretty tricky.



1/8-1/4 is pretty easy with my 212 (not autoset).  Less than 1/8 requires that you plan your weld and your travel.  Just for S&Gs I've done aluminum as thin as .043 with it.  I almost can't move my hands fast enough.  I've done .080 with stitch and fill, but even 1/8 will drop out if you build to much heat.  1/4 is pretty forgiving.  You can wallow around on it for a while before it will drop out on you.  3/8 is about my limit for MIG aluminum with that welder.  It requires a solid preheat to do a good job, but I have done it without.  My big thing though is prep.  You absolutely have to clean and deoxidize aluminum right before you weld with DC.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Feb 8, 2018)

I have Air Liquide O/A combination set and bottles. The set was free from work when they upgraded to the next size, but the bottles certainly weren't . The Air Liquide sets are industrial standard here. Industrially, there are many more in use than the rest combined. ( Liquid Air in the states.) I had a Japanese Tanaka set before, good for gas welding, weird mixing for cutting. If you get a O/A, I would get your locally common one, easy servicing and finding tips. I find I use it mostly for heating and bending . The cutting was very humbling. Just call me Ol'Shakey.


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## cg285 (Feb 8, 2018)

just because this needs to keep on going 
before and after ww2 aircraft and other structures that used 4130, aluminum, magnesium, inconel, monel, stainless, cast iron were all welded with o/a (and tig was avail then). this continued until the 1990's
years back when i was real poor i couldn't afford a tig so i welded alum with o/a


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## Downwindtracker2 (Feb 9, 2018)

I ,too, have the old woodworking tool bug. Of my metal working tools , only the welder bought new and the mill/drill bought used,have paid for them selves. In fact the welder has at least three or four times over ,paid for it's self.


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## Crank (Feb 9, 2018)

Harry,
I'm going to throw in my two cents worth here. You have O/A experience and you seem to have most likely used a MIG. That means you know what a weld puddle is and it's a matter of picking the most cost effective single machine for general use. I don't own a MIG and will likely never have a use for one with what I do, but I have to agree it is probably the most versatile general purpose machine for "everything".

 Almost two decades ago I professionally welded for about 6 1/2 years and used TIG, MIG (occasionally) and PAW (plasma arc welding) on primarily  titanium and stainless along with aluminum to a lesser extent. I'm spoiled and hate grinding welds, so I have a Miller Diversion 165 (dedicated TIG) and an O/A set up for all of my hot work. I never have a need for high deposition rates and precision is needed, so TIG is my happy place. As others have said, cost for the unit is higher and you need a tank for shield gas, but the newer TIG machines are so much more user friendly than what I worked with (Aircrafter 351) that they can quickly make your welds look like you're a seasoned veteran. 

I'm not trying to sell you on TIG, but if you have a chance to go to a dealer that has one set up for demonstration, you might be amazed what technology has done for user friendliness. That also may mean the newer MIG units have benefited from technology, so see what they have to offer.

Just remember: Stick = high deposition rate, least precision for detail work, but some guys are gifted.
                          MIG = moderate/fast deposition rate depending on machine amperage, takes practice for precision, but tiny work is a pain.
                          TIG = low deposition rate, high level of control for heat affected zone and welds that don't need clean up (assuming your not a putz)
                          O/A = WHATEVER YOU ARE CAPABLE OF! Fast, slow, tiny HAZ, huge HAZ, lots of filler, no filler, very versatile, but proficiency is one of                                       those things that one can never stop learning. (I still have a lot to learn!)

Good luck with you shop construction and try not to get overwhelmed with opinions. As I said, that's my two cents worth and it's worth half of that.

Mark


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## NortonDommi (Feb 9, 2018)

Good one Crank. I'm still using a transformer TIG but have used some of the newer stuff and it is pretty amazing and so easy to use. The latest MIG's seem to be using a lot of the same controls, sort of morphing together.
  On another note just to muddle the puddle, HarryJM you mentioned heating, well when you have decided on a welder one of your first projects could be a heater: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmQ5wJnkAIoIDKEy-YqHozUmzjcgHA_Ka   then what you save on power can be invested back into tools etc.


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## HarryJM (Feb 9, 2018)

Crank said:


> Harry,
> I'm going to throw in my two cents worth here. You have O/A experience and you seem to have most likely used a MIG. That means you know what a weld puddle is and it's a matter of picking the most cost effective single machine for general use. I don't own a MIG and will likely never have a use for one with what I do, but I have to agree it is probably the most versatile general purpose machine for "everything".
> 
> Almost two decades ago I professionally welded for about 6 1/2 years and used TIG, MIG (occasionally) and PAW (plasma arc welding) on primarily  titanium and stainless along with aluminum to a lesser extent. I'm spoiled and hate grinding welds, so I have a Miller Diversion 165 (dedicated TIG) and an O/A set up for all of my hot work. I never have a need for high deposition rates and precision is needed, so TIG is my happy place. As others have said, cost for the unit is higher and you need a tank for shield gas, but the newer TIG machines are so much more user friendly than what I worked with (Aircrafter 351) that they can quickly make your welds look like you're a seasoned veteran.
> ...


Hey Crank,

Yes the feedback may seem a little overwhelming at times and that's OK as being bombarded with lots of information gives me a chance to “read between the lines” as the saying goes. One of my primary learning processes is to overwhelm my brain with new information, sit back/take a break, and then I start to see patterns/trains of thought/ways of doing stuff that makes sense to me.

We have a place called in town called “The Forge” which is a 501c3 nonprofit community makerspace and they have a Saturday welding class with hands on experience that I plan on taking that as an introduction back into welding.

Take care,
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 9, 2018)

Downwindtracker2 said:


> I ,too, have the old woodworking tool bug. Of my metal working tools , only the welder bought new and the mill/drill bought used,have paid for them selves. In fact the welder has at least three or four times over ,paid for it's self.


Hey Downwindtrack,

I will be selling my woodworking equipment as I do not have room for that and the metal working stuff I have bought. And the woodworking side just does not have that appeal that the metal side does.

Two years from now I plan on being retired with my shed wired, lights, a little heat for the winter months, machines purchased and enjoying my new daily commute up the backyard to my new work shop.

Take care,
Harry


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## Robert LaLonde (Feb 10, 2018)

HarryJM said:


> Hey Downwindtrack,
> 
> I will be selling my woodworking equipment as I do not have room for that and the metal working stuff I have bought. And the woodworking side just does not have that appeal that the metal side does.
> 
> ...



I can't imagine selling any of my tools.  Sure I don't use the table saw or the radial arm saw very often, but my time is valuable to me.  When I have to do a bit of wood work its nice to have a table saw right there.  One with router leaf bolted on.  Joiner, hand planes, bandsaw, they all get used once in a while for this or that.


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## HarryJM (Feb 10, 2018)

Bob La Londe said:


> I can't imagine selling any of my tools.  Sure I don't use the table saw or the radial arm saw very often, but my time is valuable to me.  When I have to do a bit of wood work its nice to have a table saw right there.  One with router leaf bolted on.  Joiner, hand planes, bandsaw, they all get used once in a while for this or that.


Hard choices to be made when you are limited to 14'x10 of floor space.


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## Robert LaLonde (Feb 10, 2018)

HarryJM said:


> Hard choices to be made when you are limited to 14'x10 of floor space.



Yeah, I'd look real hard at finding a way to increase my floor space.  I feel very fortunate that I was able to build my shop when I did.


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## HarryJM (Feb 10, 2018)

coherent said:


> If you have any need or desire to weld aluminum you need a TIG, A TIG will also allow you to stick weld. If not, a MIG is the best choice. The little 110v are handy, but get one that is 110/220 and an argon setup so you can weld thicker metal and still be able to transport and use 110 and flux core for stuff. I highly recommend the Millers. I have a victor O/A set and can't remember the last time I used it. In fact if anyone in Arizona is looking for a small set with tanks and cart, I'll sell it cheap!


So why do you not use you O/A anymore?


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## tjb (Feb 10, 2018)

Couple of comments, Harry.

1.  I agree with what just about everyone has suggested to you with regard to shop power.  My shop is a converted pole barn that I enclosed and is about 100' from the house.  It cost a little extra, but I put a 100 amp subpanel out there and had to run fairly heavy underground cable to feed it (6 gauge or heavier as I recall).  But I can tell you, it was well worth the expense.  I've NEVER overloaded my system or kicked a breaker - and I added a 3-phase converter out there.  If you're not that far from your power supply, the cost won't be quite as high (but only some of your expense will be priced by the foot), and I promise you - you won't regret going ahead and biting the bullet now.  My welder and other pieces of shop equipment run off of 30A breakers, so obviously my supply needs to be greater than that.  As some others have noted, it's a real nuisance when you're in the middle of a project and discover you're underpowered.

2.  With regard to a welder, keep in mind - you get what you pay for.  My first welder was a fairly light duty Lincoln that ran off 110 power.  It was given to me (by someone who upgraded - my, my) and, don't get me wrong, it was a nice welder for what it did.  What I soon discovered, however, that more often than not, it was not sufficient for the kinds of projects I've worked on.  I ended up having to spend the money and getting a much heavier duty welder.  I bought a Miller 211 MIG welder which has never let me down.  In fact, I'm about to head back down to the shop to weld three pieces of 1" plate for a lamp post base I'm fabricating.  That would never happen with the lighter duty welder.

I learned this axiom many, many years ago:  Buy it right the first time, and buy it ONCE.  Cut corners on quality or capacity, and buy it TWICE (if you're lucky).  I think that adage applies to both of your issues.  If lighter duty suits your ULTIMATE needs - great.  Just make sure you're considering 'ultimate' and not 'immediate'.  They have a tendency to be different.

Regards,
Terry


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## Techee (Feb 10, 2018)

I recommend an AC/DC tig/stick capable unit.   This will give you the most flexibility for welding most all materials. 

You can use tig on a variety of materials & get very high quality welds.

You will be able to weld aluminum w/ this configuration.  The newer inverter type machines have a pulsing capability built in which is a must for aluminum tig welding & just makes it easier to do quality tig welds on all materials.

I have an older Lincoln SquareWave 175 which performs very well.

I suggest you look at Eastwood & some of their tutorials on tig welding before you purchase a welder.  They have a lot of good info on welding in them.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=eastwood+tig+welding+aluminum

Good luck w/ your purchase!!


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## HarryJM (Feb 10, 2018)

tjb said:


> Couple of comments, Harry.
> 
> 1.  I agree with what just about everyone has suggested to you with regard to shop power.  My shop is a converted pole barn that I enclosed and is about 100' from the house.  It cost a little extra, but I put a 100 amp subpanel out there and had to run fairly heavy underground cable to feed it (6 gauge or heavier as I recall).  But I can tell you, it was well worth the expense.  I've NEVER overloaded my system or kicked a breaker - and I added a 3-phase converter out there.  If you're not that far from your power supply, the cost won't be quite as high (but only some of your expense will be priced by the foot), and I promise you - you won't regret going ahead and biting the bullet now.  My welder and other pieces of shop equipment run off of 30A breakers, so obviously my supply needs to be greater than that.  As some others have noted, it's a real nuisance when you're in the middle of a project and discover you're underpowered.
> 
> ...


Hey Terry,

I totally agreed with you philosophy on not cutting corners and my wife shares your philosophy also. So yes I will be look into getting something bigger than an 30 amp panel.

Thanks,
Harry


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## cg285 (Feb 10, 2018)

Crank said:


> you seem to have most likely used a MIG.
> 
> Mark



i getting old and i sometimes forget where i put my beer but wouldn't you remember if you used to mig weld? things like that i always remember


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## HarryJM (Feb 10, 2018)

HarryJM said:


> Hey Terry,
> 
> I totally agreed with you philosophy on not cutting corners and my wife shares your philosophy also. So yes I will be look into getting something bigger than an 30 amp panel.
> 
> ...


Hey Techee,

Work is a little slow now and I have been watching welding videos about various welding techniques, machines, etc and yes the AC/DC tig/stick seem to be the way to go and Eastwood seems to have some good welders.

Thanks,
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 10, 2018)

Not to hijack my own thread but why choose MIG over O/A, as it seems the MIG welders are very popular?


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## cg285 (Feb 10, 2018)

the cranky guy said it all. o/a is more versitle


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## cg285 (Feb 10, 2018)

plus it depends on what you want to be doing hahaha


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## Downwindtracker2 (Feb 10, 2018)

MIG is much, much, easier than O/A. It's just one much easier than stick. In fact, MIG is considered too easy. You can get pretty but not deep penetration welds. If I want to sliver solder or braze , I'll put a welding tip on my O/A, but that's the only time I would ever think about using the O/A to stick things together.

These new inverter welders are amazing, the quality of the arc and it's in the size of an overnight bag. It just blows me away after years of dragging big transformer welders across mills. I was a millwright, but we did have to weld.

If I wasn't retired, those Miller TIG AC DC units are very tempting.


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## toploader (Feb 10, 2018)

I own 230v mig, tig, and stick machines.  I use my Hobart Ironman 230 mig 95% of the time. It's got a good operational range, and works just as good as the day I brought it home from Coastal farm supply store 7 years ago.  I've been through 5, 45lb pound wire spools through the machine.  I use my hypertherm power max 85 for cutting duties. 

I hardly ever use my oxy/fuel setup any more for welding or cutting.


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## Tim9 (Feb 10, 2018)

I have a couple of migs... a Millermatic 211 and a Tweco 110 volt. They are both great welders and if I have a lot of welding to do I use the Millermatic with CO2 gas. It runs a very nice bead. I also have a Klutch 
*FREE SHIPPING — KlutchST200iDV Dual Voltage Inverter-Powered Stick/TIG Welder — 120V/230V, 15–200 Amp*  @ 285.00
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_welding+arc-stick-welding+arc-stick-welders

That said...I find myself using the Klutch more than the others. It's just so light and I can run a quick bead to join 1/4" steel for brackets and it only takes me 5 minutes max start to finish. With the others, I have to lug them out and make sure the wire feed is on time...etc. I just love the Klutch. I doubt it weighs 15 lbs. And it is a very easy arc welder to start an arc/bead... at least it is for a novice like me.


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## blue_luke (Feb 11, 2018)

Harry, I hear ya my man! 
I am turning 65 this year and will retire comming next summer.

So here goes, last summer, after a lots of thinking about, I pulled the trigger on a shinny brand new Miller "Multimatic 215" which can do TIG, MIG and stick. It is way above your budget but I have a few special needs that guided my choice and I don't want to expand here.
Now I am no welder! but I have the drive to learn! (and learn to drive!)
So in your case, I think I can give some educated advise here...

- Get a MIG!  you can probably find a good machine used wthin your budget and MIG, although I am still not very good at it, is one of the easiest process to learn!
- MIG, and other processes  comes with some 'unforeseen' expenses.... Mig uses a mixture of argon and CO2 gas, you will have to pay for the first tank and then for each fill up.
- Among the unforeseen expenses, you will need some tools, a helmet ($$$) gloves, coat etc...
- Like some other guys said, 240V 30A circuit is not going to make it. For your little shop you need at least 50Amps, and a sub panel this size does not exist. Then you look at 60 and 100A subpanel and find that 100A subpanels are less expensive than the 60A!
- In sizing your panel, you can always cheat in thinking that you will use only one tool at a time....  then comes a friend to help! So allow 30 A for your welder, 15A for lighting and another 15A for other tools. (Yup! that's 60A total)
- You might also need power for heating or air conditionning, depending where you live

Some other considerations...
Your shop being 10 X 14, forget flux-core welding! you will axphysiate yourself! This process produce an awfull lot of smoke... So is Stick welding. Mig with gas wil be just bearable if you do just a few welds. TIG is harder to learn, but seems to produce the least fumes (I might be wrong here, some will correct me)

Install at least TWO fire extinguisher, and not near the machines! If a fire ever catch, you want to be sure to be able to reach one or the other without flames in between!

My $2 CDN ! :-D


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## Aukai (Feb 11, 2018)

There are 200 amp circuits available from the power company, you need to change the meter then you can power the house, and the shop with separate panels. If under ground they would not pull it for my house due to the conduit needing to be 4", mine is 2".


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## cg285 (Feb 11, 2018)

HarryJM said:


> Not to hijack my own thread but why choose MIG over O/A, as it seems the MIG welders are very popular?


mig welders make a novice look better than he/she really is - that's why. problem is without o/a experience puddle control is usually compromised. my go to welders for most fab jobs are migs dese days but i have o/a experience - although for body work i went back to o/a - except for when i need to plug weld where spot welds were 
i have tig also but use it little. i grew up on o/a and a lincoln tombstone buzz box that paid for itself many times over


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## HarryJM (Feb 11, 2018)

Techee said:


> I recommend an AC/DC tig/stick capable unit.   This will give you the most flexibility for welding most all materials.
> 
> You can use tig on a variety of materials & get very high quality welds.
> 
> ...


Hey Techee,

Yes research, youtube stuff and this threah sure are giving me lots to think about.

Take care,
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 11, 2018)

cg285 said:


> i getting old and i sometimes forget where i put my beer but wouldn't you remember if you used to mig weld? things like that i always remember


Hey cg 285,

Mid 1970's, mid 20's of me life and indulging in the life style of that time – it was a winter job during the non-motorcycle riding time in Davenport IA – what more can I say.

Take care,
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 11, 2018)

Downwindtracker2 said:


> MIG is much, much, easier than O/A. It's just one much easier than stick. In fact, MIG is considered too easy. You can get pretty but not deep penetration welds. If I want to sliver solder or braze , I'll put a welding tip on my O/A, but that's the only time I would ever think about using the O/A to stick things together.
> 
> These new inverter welders are amazing, the quality of the arc and it's in the size of an overnight bag. It just blows me away after years of dragging big transformer welders across mills. I was a millwright, but we did have to weld.
> 
> If I wasn't retired, those Miller TIG AC DC units are very tempting.


Yes I have been reading up on those inverter welders - isn't technology great!


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## HarryJM (Feb 11, 2018)

Tim9 said:


> I have a couple of migs... a Millermatic 211 and a Tweco 110 volt. They are both great welders and if I have a lot of welding to do I use the Millermatic with CO2 gas. It runs a very nice bead. I also have a Klutch
> *FREE SHIPPING — KlutchST200iDV Dual Voltage Inverter-Powered Stick/TIG Welder — 120V/230V, 15–200 Amp*  @ 285.00
> https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_welding+arc-stick-welding+arc-stick-welders
> 
> That said...I find myself using the Klutch more than the others. It's just so light and I can run a quick bead to join 1/4" steel for brackets and it only takes me 5 minutes max start to finish. With the others, I have to lug them out and make sure the wire feed is on time...etc. I just love the Klutch. I doubt it weighs 15 lbs. And it is a very easy arc welder to start an arc/bead... at least it is for a novice like me.


Have watched several videos about the Klutch welders and they seem to have good reviews.


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## cg285 (Feb 11, 2018)

HarryJM said:


> Hey cg 285,
> 
> Mid 1970's, mid 20's of me life and indulging in the life style of that time – it was a winter job during the non-motorcycle riding time in Davenport IA – what more can I say.
> 
> ...


we must be about the same age. i sucked down a lot of beer back then (and now). but i rode all year


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## HarryJM (Feb 11, 2018)

blue_luke said:


> Harry, I hear ya my man!
> I am turning 65 this year and will retire comming next summer.
> 
> So here goes, last summer, after a lots of thinking about, I pulled the trigger on a shinny brand new Miller "Multimatic 215" which can do TIG, MIG and stick. It is way above your budget but I have a few special needs that guided my choice and I don't want to expand here.
> ...


Hey blue_luke,

I had planned out the 30 amp panel as being quite adequate for running one machine with a little left over for lighting, fan, etc. Most of the electric motors I have can be wired for 220 which draws less amps that 110. Based on the feedback on this thread I will be getting an estimate for a 100 amp panel.

While O/A is very appealing to me I am really leaning towards a MIG setup as new ones have a lot going for them.

Safety is always a primary concerning no matter what I am doing. A little antidotal story from the first motorcycle shop I worked in. One of the mechanics was using the bench grinder to grinder a magnesium motorcycle cover and did not clean up after himself. So later on another mechanic steps up to the grinder with a piece of steel and and all of a sudden there was a small explosion and luckily no one got hurt.

Concerning fire extinguishers, I have one for the kitchen that is away from the stove – just for that reason that you do not want it right next to what may catch fire.

Concerning breathing toxic fumes - I bought me a good 3M respirator and very good face mask for wood working and I always wear good ear plugs as noise is a distraction and I want to focus on what I am doing. Takes a little extra time to be safe but it is sure is worth it!

Given the small work space I have I always have plenty of ventilation regardless of what I am doing. So any welding will always be done with plenty of ventilation also even if I get a little chilly during the winter months.

I know your looking forward to next summer and hope it is everything you plan on it being – enjoy!

Take care,
Harry


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## HarryJM (Feb 11, 2018)

cg285 said:


> we must be about the same age. i sucked down a lot of beer back then (and now). but i rode all year


In the early-mid 80's I worked in Campaign Illinois as a motorcycle mechanic and would ride my Norton 850 to work during the winter when there was not too much ice/snow on the roads.


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## blue_luke (Feb 11, 2018)

Harry, my shop is kind of a two part things!
The missuz, one of those thing that thinks sincerely that a car belongs _inside_ a garage (aren't they lovely? albeit their erroneous way of seeing things!) will let me use HALF a double garage space. (Gnnnnnnn!)
So I do only welding and wood working in this area where I can light up a kerosene heater when it's cold. Welding in the winter months is then quite out of the question because ventilating this space could only be done by opening an 8' door!  Hence my comments about forgetting flux-core welding!
The other 'shop' is a small room (10X13) in the basement where I do only machining. Lathe and mill work. Steady temperature, concrete slab floor and almost 9 feet ceiling.
My machines are a PM2711 lathe and a PM25 mill of the first generation with plastic gears.
Last week, i got my new PM833T miling in the shop. No chips yet as I have to complete the electricals (240Vac sub panel). I need to run a cable in the crawl space to the garage... and it's =25°C these days! I just don't have the courage!! 

Concerning the 3M respirator, all I can know about them is that 3M is a serious company, making good products. So I guess these are perfect for grinding, sanding and that sort of things, but some painting processes and welding produces gas and polluents that probably are not filtered adequately with this system. Not saying that it is inadequate, just asking you to search the subject and comment to us to your findings.
It would be such a painfull pitty that you made it to your 70's to pass away for a stupid cancer because you simply did not use the proper respirator! ( I have a quite a grind with cancer having lost a wife, a brother and lately a fine brother in law, all within a year each! )


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## HarryJM (Feb 12, 2018)

blue_luke said:


> Harry, my shop is kind of a two part things!
> The missuz, one of those thing that thinks sincerely that a car belongs _inside_ a garage (aren't they lovely? albeit their erroneous way of seeing things!) will let me use HALF a double garage space. (Gnnnnnnn!)
> So I do only welding and wood working in this area where I can light up a kerosene heater when it's cold. Welding in the winter months is then quite out of the question because ventilating this space could only be done by opening an 8' door!  Hence my comments about forgetting flux-core welding!
> The other 'shop' is a small room (10X13) in the basement where I do only machining. Lathe and mill work. Steady temperature, concrete slab floor and almost 9 feet ceiling.
> ...


blue_luke,

So sorry for you loss.

My comment about the 3M was only for wood working and what little bit of spray can painting I do. Yes I cherish my relatively good health at this stage of my life and sure am a lot more safety conscious then in the past. I always plan out my moves when doing any kind of work such as; where I'm starting from, where I will end and what is in between (up/down/sides). In others words good situational awareness. One thing that I always have to keep reminding myself is to breath and relax. In my welding research I came across one site that listed the ABC's of welding - always be comfortable, which is good advise for whatever you doing in the shop. I keep distractions at a minimum and always wear ear plugs around loud equipment as that helps me keep focused on what I am doing.

I plan on having my welding setup in one corner of the shed next to the double doors. That way I can have the doors open and at least one of my three windows. If the wind is blowing really strong then no MIG gas welding.

Congratulations on your new mill as that is always exciting!


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## HarryJM (Feb 12, 2018)

cg285 said:


> mig welders make a novice look better than he/she really is - that's why. problem is without o/a experience puddle control is usually compromised. my go to welders for most fab jobs are migs dese days but i have o/a experience - although for body work i went back to o/a - except for when i need to plug weld where spot welds were
> i have tig also but use it little. i grew up on o/a and a lincoln tombstone buzz box that paid for itself many times over


As with any acquiring any new skill – practice,practice, practice!

Not sure at this point which is less expensive (wire, gas, etc) to learn MIG or O/A, beyond the cost of safety gear.

And as of right now I probably fit into that class of forum members who only once or twice a year to weld what needs to be welded and find that their MIG suite them quite well.

Since metal working is a new hobby for me, my learning time/expense will be tooling up my lathe, end mill and welder stuff.


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## blue_luke (Feb 12, 2018)

Harry, if it just a few welds here and there, go the a shop! You will pay just for the welding.
Just prepare the job , procuring the metal, cutting, grinding etc..
Then bring the whole mess to a shop with a good sketch and bring it back to the shop where you can grind everything smooth and paint to your lacking etc.. Job (well) done! Preparation and finishing is what is costly, just the welding is not much. Plus a good welder will make you very good weld, easy to clean with a grinder, and this guy will get things done much faster than we will ever be able to do!

You will also save on the electricals for your little shop where a 30 or 40 amps circuit will then probably be sufficient! A small mill, a small lathe (say 2HP or less), some lights and a few outlets then you're good to go. For this, if the code allows it, you can simply run a 'direct burial' type of cable that you can bury directly in the earth. When it gets cold, use a small kerosene space heater, like you would find in a camping or RV equipment store.
In NC you have nothing Like I have here (Quebec) where it gets to -10°F for weeks and so far 6 feet of snow accumulated!


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## HarryJM (Feb 12, 2018)

blue_luke said:


> Harry, if it just a few welds here and there, go the a shop! You will pay just for the welding.
> Just prepare the job , procuring the metal, cutting, grinding etc..
> Then bring the whole mess to a shop with a good sketch and bring it back to the shop where you can grind everything smooth and paint to your lacking etc.. Job (well) done! Preparation and finishing is what is costly, just the welding is not much. Plus a good welder will make you very good weld, easy to clean with a grinder, and this guy will get things done much faster than we will ever be able to do!
> 
> ...


Where's the fun in that? As I explained my new metal working hobby to an old friend that I recently reconnected with – I can now make a bolt with my  $600 lathe and $700 end mill


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## blue_luke (Feb 12, 2018)

Just like me, I spend more than 10K$ in machines and tools to make microphones I can buy for 100$ :-D

But I have somewhat more serious works I want to do, including initiating one of my grandson (10 years old now) to the basics of wood and metal working.  Now, THAT has no price!
Best job in the whole galactic empire is being a Pappy!


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## cg285 (Feb 12, 2018)

HarryJM said:


> Not sure at this point which is less expensive (wire, gas, etc) to learn MIG or O/A, beyond the cost of safety gear.
> 
> .



 safety gear? a helmet, maybe some gloves


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## hss cutter (Feb 14, 2018)

well guess it is my turn. I have a miller 225 mig and old big stick and a plasma machine, and o/a setup I use the mig all the time the plasma a lot not so much the o/a and the stick never. Yes tig is a nice set up but when I was in a welding shop we only use tig for alu, and real fine work. The miller 250 we had there would weld just about anything with a row of dimes weld very easy to do. I would stay away from the 110 machines there duty cycle is not much plus doing anything heavy will take a lot to build up to get the proper weld. So I guess do some research and pick what will fit your needs. If I can be of any help please JUST ASK.


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## HarryJM (Feb 14, 2018)

Hey hss cutter,

This thread sure has been a good learning experience for me as the feed back has provided me lots of opportunities for research based the responses. And that includes duty cycle and I'm learning about its correlation to amps used.

MIG welders seem to be the go-to welder based on the response to this thread and that is what I am leaning towards at this point. My long range plan is to have my shed converted shop setup (machines, electricity, lighting, heating, etc) for my retirement sometime after November 2020, so I have plenty of time to research and plan things out.

Take care,
Harry


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## dcsims (Feb 14, 2018)

There are several things that should be considered in this decision.

1st the cost to operate.
O/A can be expensive due to the cost of gas and the wear and tear on the body lugging cylinders up and down the hill that you mentioned.
Mig can be slightly more costly due to the shield gas.
Flux Core in my mind would be the least expensive. Flux Core does not require any shield gas thus no cylinders to lug around.

2nd strength of the weld required.
What do you expect to be welding?
For high strength Arc may serve you better but for general purpose welding Flux Core would serve just as well

I have Arc both AC and DC, MIG, TIG, Flux Core and O/A in my shop and I must admit my go to welder in most cases is Flux Core.
This is due to ease of setup, cost to maintain and quality of weld. Simple flip the switch on weld and flip the switch off. Here I will mention this is for general purpose welds.

One other benefit of MIG and Flux Core is that you can get a good welder that runs on 110V and is portable enough to carry from job to job easily.

Last but not lease would be 3rd.
Duty Cycle of the welder. The more you pay for a welder the higher the Duty Cycle. This means in a one hour period the higher the Duty Cycle the longer you can weld before having to allow the welder to cool down. You need to consider how much welding you expect to do at a time.

Dennis


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## Joncooey (Feb 14, 2018)

Hi Harry; so many suggestions that I have read and all valid.  I am a Journeyman Welder (20 years).  I have tried many but not the Hobart Handler 140 in particular; I have heard very good things about it though.  If I were to use 110V I think that the Hobart is probably the machine of choice.  I am a big fan of Hobart and Miller machines.  In my humble opinion most other 'Big-box' 110V machines, which I have used, are inferior.  I would like to propose, though, that in order to produce a good weld, you need to produce enough heat which requires enough power.  I use a small Lincoln MigPak 220v Mig. welder and find it just adequate for most small jobs. (Up to 1/4" )  I don't know how you could get good welds using 110V.  (I have seen exceptions; but they are serious professional machines with price tags to match.)  You have to produce heat.  I find that the Lincoln that I use is good. ( I'm sure that the Millers, Hobarts, ESAABs, ect.) are also good.  My point is, again, you need enough power.  My 220V will run Gas-less Flux-core well and runs MIG (gas shielded).(Check your polarity when changing between)  Also, an important thing to understand is if you have a low powered  machine, (or if you are welding thin material ) you can't run a heavy wire.  Most of these small machines will work best with .025 or .030 wire.  For a beginner, I think that a 220V  MIG. is best.


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## STurnerXM2010 (Feb 14, 2018)

I'm inclined to agree with the majority on the power availability. If you want to do much over 3/16", you really need 220V on at least a 50A. But, if that's not an option at the moment, I would grab a little multiprocess machine from any of the reputable brands. I love the Esab Rebel 215IC, but I personally have the Lincoln 210 as my multiprocess. You can run it on 120 or 240, so you're ready to bump up the heat once you get 240 out to the shop. Easy to use and can literally do it all. MIG, TIG, Flux, Stick. Now the only thing left is a plasma cutter... LOL


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## tq60 (Feb 15, 2018)

Did not read all 99 posts so may already be posted.

Sub panels are basically free with breakers.

We got our 200 amp panel with a bunch of breakers for $75.00 at home depot and others are similar good prices.

So buy the largest panel that will fit the space.

Code requires 36 inches free in front so mount it next to your door in the walk path so the walk path is the 36 inch space.

Wire is not cheap but cheaper to do it once and not need to upgrade.

We have 200 amp panel fed with smaller breaker and wired for 100 amp.

Your main service panel limits the sub panel breaker size but not the panel size.

We like one outlet per breaker for shop use so loads easier to manage.

Breakers are cheap.

We had stick and gas welders and wanted mig.

Knew little about them so a shopping we went.

Went to every welding store and bugged them all and all seemed to claim whatever they sold was better than the others as expected but could not get consistent answers. 

We sent an identical email to both Miller and Lincoln asking a series of questions regarding their units based on what we learned.

Things like plastic feed wheels on the Lincoln and other details.

Miller confirmed what we knew and the best was Lincoln confirmed things about build quality and suggested we buy the miller.

Been a wonderful machine.

Get a mig that can do gas.

Flux core is a lot more expensive but it works on less clean metal.

Get a 240 volt model as it can do more, the 120 volt models are limited in capacity.

Our Miller can do substantial welding on the 20 amp outlet we placed in the center of the shop.

Last bit is before you buy any electrical parts do your shopping and select what you want and take photos of the panel.

Make sketch of your property and shop with cable length between existing panel and new and where new panel is proposed.

A photo of your existing with breakers.

Visit your local building department to discuss your plans.

They can advise what size of wires and placement.

Service breaker limits and other details.

If DIY and less than say $500 a permit usually not required so focus only on getting the panel in the building and nothing else.

If asked why nothing else simply state you are still shopping for specific welder and will build to suit later.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk


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## HarryJM (Jan 26, 2019)

Hey everyone,

Just though I would update you on my welder decision. After reading over the thoughtful response's to this thread and then letting everything percolate in the back recesses of my mind, along with taking a 3 hour hands on introduction to welding (o/x, stick, mig) at “The Forge” a makerspace downtown, I decided to purchase a small o/x setup and a arch welder. I just keep coming back to “boy it would be neat” to take up o/x and stick welding again.

Prior to my introduction to welding course I had a 100 amp panel installed in my 10'x14' shed with 11 110 and 4 220 outlets. One of the 220 outlets is a dedicated 30 amp 10/3 wire. It sure is nice to have all of those outlets along with 6 overhead led lights! This is a one person shop so no issue with overloading circuits as I only run one machine at a time.

So within the past few weeks I purchased a small set of o/x/tanks and cart (no hose, etc at this point). I also purchased a used Lincoln AC-225C arch welder with a 100' 10/4 extension cord, Jackson non-auto darkening helmet and a bunch of old 6011 and 6013 rods. According to the manual the Lincoln can run on a 50 amp #10, for up to 100' feet so I will change out my 30 amp breaker for a 50. The 100' extension cord will come in handy as I will not be doing any welding inside my wood shed and future plans are to build a small detached lean-to/pole barn shed for welding/blacksmithing.


I have several welding projects in mind from brazing/re-cutting a missing broken bull gear tooth on my Logan lath. Someone on this forum posted a picture from Practical Machinist that showed a home made jig (something to build/wed) for indexing off an existing tooth. And the ubiquitous run-of-the-mill welding table and welding cart build.

Found out last week that our local scrap yard, D.H Griffin, has a yard sale area and took a look at it last week. Looks like a gold mind of used scrap metal to practice welding and learning the proper techniques of metal prep prior to welding. Also will be on the look out for appropriate cart and welding table materials.

I retired (71 ½ and about time!) last November and feel like a kind in a candy store with all of this retirement time to indulge in my new found (started acquiring equipment about 3 years ago) metal working hobbies (lathe/etc, welding, backsmithing) and time.

So a final thanks to everyone for their kind, thoughtful and incisive responses in helping me decide on  my welding solution's.

Harry


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## ttabbal (Jan 26, 2019)

Be careful, 50A is a bit high on #10. For the short duty cycles of a welder it's probably safe enough, but I personally wouldn't do less than #8 copper. From the breaker to the outlet anyway. That's what the breaker is there to protect. And on the off chance something gets plugged in that can draw 50A longer term, that wiring won't be protected. 

Since you have a subpanel anyway, I would surface mount a short conduit run to a new outlet box with #8 for the 50A and leave the #10 runs on 30A breakers.


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## HarryJM (Jan 26, 2019)

ttabbal said:


> Be careful, 50A is a bit high on #10. For the short duty cycles of a welder it's probably safe enough, but I personally wouldn't do less than #8 copper. From the breaker to the outlet anyway. That's what the breaker is there to protect. And on the off chance something gets plugged in that can draw 50A longer term, that wiring won't be protected.
> 
> Since you have a subpanel anyway, I would surface mount a short conduit run to a new outlet box with #8 for the 50A and leave the #10 runs on 30A breakers.


No room in the box for another breaker and I talked with the electrical company that installed the panel and they said the 30 could be swapped out for a 50. I will probably be using the 50' extension cord for welding and the Lincoln manual recommended #10 and 50 amp for runs under 100'. i will also call and talk with the city permit guy and see if a 50 amp is within their code.


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## ericc (Jan 26, 2019)

Hi Harry.  You sound like a beginning blacksmith.  It looks like you picked just the right tools for the job.  Careful about that current rating.  If you are a typical weekend welder, your duty cycle will be so low you won't cook your wire.  Just remember your dodgy setup when you decide to weld your own anvil together.  I'd just stick with the 30 amp and live with the occasional trips.  They won't be frequent if you keep it below 180 amps on the welder.


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## HarryJM (Jan 26, 2019)

ericc said:


> Hi Harry.  You sound like a beginning blacksmith.  It looks like you picked just the right tools for the job.  Careful about that current rating.  If you are a typical weekend welder, your duty cycle will be so low you won't cook your wire.  Just remember your dodgy setup when you decide to weld your own anvil together.  I'd just stick with the 30 amp and live with the occasional trips.  They won't be frequent if you keep it below 180 amps on the welder.


Yes to weekend welder and will not be pushing the limits of the welder. One thing I noticed in reading over the manual is that the OC (open circuit) volts is 45-59 so does that mean the 30 amp breaker will not work as I'm not sure I understand the definition of OC.

No welding an anvil as I will probably find and ASO at the junk yard and have fun learning how to make a beer bottle opener in my JABOD forge.


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## tq60 (Jan 26, 2019)

We thinks the 50 amp is OUTPUT of welder.

#10 wire is rated for only 30 amps and at 100 feet long maybe 75% of that.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Dabbler (Jan 27, 2019)

Harry, I'm really late to the rodeo, having many other 'things to do' In lieu or reading this thread...

I think your startup outfit will serve you well!  

--however -- If the breaker is 50 amp and the wire size is 10 gauge, you do have a problem.  A short or hooking a large welder to it could cause a fire.  In most jurisdictions you will need a 6 gauge wire to safely use a 50A breaker.  Please check again...


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## Cheeseking (Jan 27, 2019)

Congratulations on the retirement . Harry please do not swap a 50A in place of a 30 on #10. If you’re out of spaces on the panel then add a sub-panel.


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## HarryJM (Jan 27, 2019)

So it looks like I need to replace the #10 with #8 and change 30 amp to 50 amp.


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## ericc (Jan 28, 2019)

Have you tried welding with the original setup?  30 amps will get you a long way.  With an OC of 60 volts or so, you are geting about a current multiple of 4X.  That means that 30 amps in will give you about 120 at the stinger.  This is just about right for 1/8" 7018 and a little high for 6011.  And, you can draw quite a bit more than that because of the duty cycle.  Remember that most blacksmith welding is not long stringer beads with slag that peels off behind you.  They are short ugly welds with lots of slag on the shank of a hardy tool or a messed up pair of tongs.  By the time you hit the characteristic time of the breaker, you'll be off the joint and chipping slag.  The only time I've been running full out is when I do full pen welds on anvils.  That JABOD forge should be lots of fun.  Spend 20 minutes doing a little fire watch after you are done to make sure that you don't set the thing on fire.


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## AGCB97 (Jan 28, 2019)

AHP TIG200 (TIG and stick) $750 delivered from Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/AHP-AlphaTIG...nin?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid={creative}&hvpos={adposition}&hvnetw=o&hvrand={random}&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl={devicemodel}&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584070139833045&psc=1&

Love  mine now 3 years old
Aaron


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## Cheeseking (Jan 28, 2019)

Yup. I was going to suggest a small inverter machine but the OP already bought the buzz box so it is what it is. Of course cost may have been a factor as well. $800 is quite a jump from what he paid. Originally when I was looking into which welder to buy my sights were set on a transformer type welder. TIG/stick machine. It was going to require a 60A 240V circuit and when I realized an inverter type would require soooo much less in the way of electrical infrastructure $$$ to do properly.
The final nail was the pathetic duty cycle on all but the largest transformers. Most are only 20-40% duty at rated amperage.
My Miller 150STL is 100% duty cycle at 100A output using only a 20 amp circuit.


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## Larry42 (Jan 28, 2019)

It's been long enough, so how is your welding going? I've got the little 120V Hobart. Would really like to try TIG on Aluminum but can't justify it. When I retired I bought a metal lathe and used jet milling machine. All the accessories cost about as much as the machines. I've got a corner of my manufacturing building so plenty of power (800A 3 phase.)


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## HarryJM (Jan 28, 2019)

The wiring is still exposed and I will be upgrading my wiring/breaker prior to paneling the shed. Will call and ask the city electrical inspector what wiring do I need for a 50 amp breaker and then hire a electrician.

Inspector said  #6 wire and 55 amp.


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## Justjoe (Jan 29, 2019)

I just bought a Miller 210 mig and DC stick, I have to say its a real sweet hart to weld with.  It is a inverted model so it can run run on 110 or 220.  Super smooth to use.  If your thinking you need a. Mig/tig you can go with the Miller 215. FYI the 215 is DC tig so you can only weld carbon.  There is a new machine out, I think it was the model 230 that does mig, AC/DC tig and DC stick. But hold on to you wallet its $3000


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## Dabbler (Jan 29, 2019)

Larry I've done a lot of Mig aluminum welding and it works very well.  I have a Tig, but use it mainly on steel. -- go figure!!


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## Groundhog (Jan 29, 2019)

Dabbler said:


> Larry I've done a lot of Mig aluminum welding and it works very well.  I have a Tig, but use it mainly on steel. -- go figure!!


Lots of aluminum parts on sno-cat trail grooming accessories. Most of our repairs were done with a Miller 210 MIG and a spool gun.


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## Dabbler (Jan 29, 2019)

I happen to have a  very short torch length so I run aluminum[edit]  right in the welder itself.  Only cobbled twice in 2 large spools of wire....


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