# 1440GT



## Fc911c (May 19, 2022)

Hi, my 1440GT which is now about 5 years old with very little usage sorry to say life got in the way. My problem is when mostly running on higher speeds oil is leaking from rear spindle bore, shaft with small gear right below spindle and the lower shaft as well. I have had some small leaks from new but now it’s getting much worse. It’s to the point that it’s making a big mess and getting on belts. I thought maybe vents where clogged  and it was building pressure, that wasn’t the problem. Also the rear of spindle does not have a seal to my surprise. 

Anyone have any idea what’s going on? I’m kind of stumped.

Thanks


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## Cadillac (May 19, 2022)

Most likely coming from the shaft seal right below the spindle. Mine was weeping and when I rebuilt the spindle bearings I replaced that seal. Yes the spindle doesn’t have the typical rubber seal type. It has a labaryth seal. Which consist of grooves that do NOT align with grooves in cover plate. Mine had three sets of grooves on the spacer and three in the cover plate. They are offset to each other. That oil drains into the cover plate which drains it back to the gearbox housing. 
 The best way to locate the leak is clean everything down. Especially around the sealing surfaces. Run the machine till you see the leak. Having it go through its heat cycle running should show the problem.


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## Fc911c (May 19, 2022)

Cadillac said:


> Most likely coming from the shaft seal right below the spindle. Mine was weeping and when I rebuilt the spindle bearings I replaced that seal. Yes the spindle doesn’t have the typical rubber seal type. It has a labaryth seal. Which consist of grooves that do NOT align with grooves in cover plate. Mine had three sets of grooves on the spacer and three in the cover plate. They are offset to each other. That oil drains into the cover plate which drains it back to the gearbox housing.
> The best way to locate the leak is clean everything down. Especially around the sealing surfaces. Run the machine till you see the leak. Having it go through its heat cycle running should show the problem.


Hi, yes I already cleaned and inspected, the worst leak is as you said right below the spindle, is that a seal or is it a sealed bearing?

The bottom shaft with the rubber seal is leaking as well.  Would you know part numbers?

Thanks for the help


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## Cadillac (May 19, 2022)

Mine were seals. I do not have a pm lathe so I couldn’t help on part numbers. The seal should have a number on it. Or you could measure shaft for id and measure housing for od. Give pm a call they should be able to get what you need.


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## Fc911c (May 19, 2022)

Ok will do thanks


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## mksj (May 19, 2022)

I had a similar leak in my carriage from a shaft that was just at the oil level and it would wick through. I made an aluminum cover plate and attached it with some silicone sealant. Didn't have a problem after that and it would be easily removed if needed for repair.


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## Fc911c (May 19, 2022)

Cadillac said:


> Mine were seals. I do not have a pm lathe so I couldn’t help on part numbers. The seal should have a number on it. Or you could measure shaft for id and measure housing for od. Give pm a call they should be able to get what you need.


Looks like the seal on that shaft is on the inside and the and bearing is on the outside just to make things more difficult.


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## Fc911c (May 19, 2022)

mksj said:


> I had a similar leak in my carriage from a shaft that was just at the oil level and it would wick through. I made an aluminum cover plate and attached it with some silicone sealant. Didn't have a problem after that and it would be easily removed if needed for repair.
> View attachment 407443


I believe that those are plugs with orings there are quite a few of them on the lathe. I did something similar only mine was above oil line I just cleaned it and put some sealant over the seam.


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## mksj (May 19, 2022)

That one turned (the shafts with the center hole turned), it was a through shaft. There is a seal plug to the right and above. But whatever works and is doesn't require disaasmbly would be preferred.


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## Fc911c (May 19, 2022)

mksj said:


> That one turned (the shafts with the center hole turned), it was a through shaft. There is a seal plug to the right and above. But whatever works and is doesn't require disaasmbly would be preferred.


Oh ok, looks like my fix might be a big job depending on what has to be removed to get at the seal under the top cover. It’s leaking so bad it can’t be ignored.


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## matthewsx (May 20, 2022)

My F250 leaks too, and I used to drive British cars....

I also have a 100+ year old Seneca Falls lathe and it doesn't have any place where oil seals would even be a thing. Ultimately lathes use oil whether for lubrication or cutting. It's up to you to determine how much oil leaking is acceptable but I would discourage trying to make it as leak free as a brand new Honda.

Pretty much if you make sure it has oil every place it needs to be, and you change it at recommended intervals you'll probably be fine. I'd hate to disassemble a perfectly good running machine just because it lost a pint or so of lube every few weeks. It's just my opinion but oil is cheap and tearing down a machine can get expensive.

I think this is what they use in industry for this issue.






						Universal Mats for Absorbing a Range of Liquids - New Pig
					

Absorb a range of liquids, including water, oil, solvents and coolants, using our Universal Mats. Choose various materials, styles and more. Soak it all in at newpig.com.




					www.newpig.com
				




John


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## Ischgl99 (May 20, 2022)

I noticed as well in the manual that the seal was on the inside of the bearing, that seems like a strange design.  The bearing in the pictures you posted looks like it is a shielded bearing.  With the seal inboard of the bearing, it won’t be getting oil lubricated, so that indicates it likely is shielded or sealed.  

The manual on the PM website lists it as a 30x47x8 seal, should be easy to get from a local bearing distributor.  Since you need to pull the bearing to get that seal out, you might want to replace that as well.


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## Fc911c (May 20, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> My F250 leaks too, and I used to drive British cars....
> 
> I also have a 100+ year old Seneca Falls lathe and it doesn't have any place where oil seals would even be a thing. Ultimately lathes use oil whether for lubrication or cutting. It's up to you to determine how much oil leaking is acceptable but I would discourage trying to make it as leak free as a brand new Honda.
> 
> ...


Sounds like jibberish to me, if it was a perfectly working machine I wouldn’t have started leaking from the beginning. Besides the mats are useless when oil is dripping on high speed rotating parts unless you put them on the walls and ceiling.


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## matthewsx (May 20, 2022)

Fc911c said:


> Sounds like jibberish to me, if it was a perfectly working machine I wouldn’t have started leaking from the beginning. Besides the mats are useless when oil is dripping on high speed rotating parts unless you put them on the walls and ceiling.


Sure, it's your machine do what you want. I could explain what I'm saying better but if you don't want to hear it I'll just keep quiet.


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