# 1st Run using Electrolytic Rust Removal



## middle.road (Jul 4, 2014)

So, still don't have the Birmingham running what with this Jeep project. Man oh man reliving your youth is expensive... 
Anyway, any 40 year old Jeep is more rust than metal and I'm tackling changing the front springs and putting bushings
at all (4) corners. Figured I'd buy new Plates, Shackles, 'U'-bolts and fasteners this time around, riiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Then the reality of $$$$ and the fact that a lot of the hardware is imported - I decided to re-use.
I bought a new set of springs for the front and the box they arrived in stated "Made in Taiwan". I figure oh good they
should be decent - they were far from it. Pure junk, bad really bad, sent them back. 

Which leads us to rust removal. Decided to try the electrolytic method. Finally put together a tank yesterday and fired it up. 
(30) Gallon barrel, (6) Ø3/4 rebar as anodes, Soda Ash (Sodium Carbonate), 10AMP old Craftsman Battery Charger, 
GFCI Ext. Cord, Rubber Gloves, Eye Protection, Hops/Barley Concoction for parts loader...

Used the Front Spring Plates for the first run. (14) Hours cook time. Gotta figure out the 'Line of Sight' of the rebar. Missed a couple of places.

As soon as I get this down pat, the lathes chucks are going in! I've got this one big arse 3-jaw that's complete rust, should be interesting.

_Dan


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## omni_dilletante (Jul 4, 2014)

I stumbled on the recommendation to use graphite plates for the anode instead of rebar.  I found they work great and they do not corrode.  Plenty of conductivity and line of sight coverage. 

Here is a picture of my tank:




I suspended the parts from the iron bar in the middle of the tank then adjusted the plates in and out until I the current was not too low or too high.

Worked great for removing both rust and paint. I tended to pull the parts every few hours and hit them with a wire brush to remove loosened rust and paint. After 8-12 hours everything looked great. A little patience saved me quite a bit of effort.

Using this tank I was able to process all the parts of my Altas MFB horizontal mill.  I would highly recommend the process and the graphite plates.

If you are interested in the graphite I found it on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GRAPHITE-PL...356?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a92727b3c


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## jpfabricator (Jul 4, 2014)

I know a place to get used 250 gal. chemical totes. Im going to use one with the top cut out for a tank as I have an 80 year old metal glider rocker to strip and repaint. I dont think the sheet metal seat slats can hold up to sandblasting. 

Jake Parker


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## Bradrock (Jul 5, 2014)

omni_dilletante said:


> I stumbled on the recommendation to use graphite plates for the anode instead of rebar.  I found they work great and they do not corrode.  Plenty of conductivity and line of sight coverage.
> 
> Here is a picture of my tank:
> 
> ...



Are the graphite plates fragile?  I think I would go with his 1 1/2" wide strips


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## awander (Jul 5, 2014)

Dan, I don't mean to rain on your parade, but there was not a lot of rust on those parts shown in the picture-I bet if you had just used the wire wheel from the start you would have gotten the same result-and quicker.


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## Bradrock (Jul 5, 2014)

I've had something " in the tank" most every day for a couple months now. I get the best / fastest results  using a container no larger than necessary. A five gallon pail works best for small parts using a 10 amp charger. In the pail I get a rapid almost violent boiling froth. If I put the same parts in a 15 gallon or so storage container, It's more like a half an Alka Seltzer & takes half a day instead of an hour or two.
Any way you do it it's like magic & my new favorite paint removal method. Sure beats standing for hours at the blast cabinet!!
Also makes a big difference if I keep the rebars clean bare metal.


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## omni_dilletante (Jul 5, 2014)

Bradrock said:


> Are the graphite plates fragile?  I think I would go with his 1 1/2" wide strips



I have not tried to break one, nor has one broken by accident.  They drill easy.  I would not consider them fragile.  

I cannot say I chose this size of graphite.  I spent time on ebay looking at the options and calculating out the price per pound and these were by far the best deal.  They provide a boatload of surface area.  I did not do any work on the fast charge setting of the battery charger, got plenty of bubbles on the low setting.  

The first time I did this I used a tin can for the annode and the water turned disgusting in very short order.  I had to use the fast charge setting to get much action at all.  With the graphite the only mess in the waster was oil/grease/grime that came off the parts.

I don't think the size of the container matters.  My experience as been that it is the distance between the two conductors.  As I move the graphite closer to the part I can see the amp meter rise and the bubbles become more vigorous.


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## middle.road (Jul 6, 2014)

omni_dilletante said:


> I stumbled on the recommendation to use graphite plates for the anode instead of rebar.  I found they work great and they do not corrode.  Plenty of conductivity and line of sight coverage.
> 
> <..................................>



I'm going have to get me some of those!!! I happened to have a dozen or so pieces of rebar cutoffs so I went with those first.
Had an old battery charger sitting on the shelf from an auction lot.
All told I've only got around $12 invested in this setup and most of that was for the soda ash. 

When I get down to doing my old tools and machinery I like your idea of graphite.

Thanks,
_Dan


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## middle.road (Jul 6, 2014)

awander said:


> Dan, I don't mean to rain on your parade, but there was not a lot of rust on those parts shown in the picture-I bet if you had just used the wire wheel from the start you would have gotten the same result-and quicker.



Actually no. Sorry, but I have to vehemently disagree with that. Doesn't look bad they are plates that've been in service for 40 years.

Here's the reasoning: </begin soapbox>

- The two I did up had already had a pretty good bath in PB and degreased with ZEP, the picture doesn't really show how heavy the rust was.
  I'll have to post some close ups of the parts.

- I have (3) sets of spring plates from various salvage donors that I've grabbed at the boneyards during the past two weeks, and I tell ya - removing leaf springs
  and hardware from 40 year old vehicles in 95 degree heat isn't much fun... Requires a whole lot of PB and a long cheater bar.
  They're all rough, they've been out in 'it' for 40+ years.

- I first took one plate from a '70 CJ-5 Jeep and went at it on a 6" dia. grinder with a Medium wire wheel. -BLEH!  Changed to a Course wheel and continued.
  You have to press the piece part harder against the wheel to remove the rust and you are also removing base 'good' metal too IF you are truly removing
  the rust, just examine it under a 10x scope to verify this. The piece part also heats up with this method which demonstrates you are working harder.
  I like the mantra "Work Smarter, Not Harder."

- As for quicker, it took three minutes to clean up each plate after removal from the barrel and rinsing them. A very quick run under the Medium wheel is
  all it took to get the results shown, and the piece part did not heat up. There was one spot where the Shock bolt and plate met at the weldment
  that was still rough.

- Also note that with electrolytic you are breaking the bond between the rust and the base 'Good' metal. You don't lose much if any base metal.  
  With using a wire wheel you are brute forcing the removal of the rust and you will lose good metal with it.  Really very simple chemistry & physics.

I did my first Jeep 40 years when I was 16, I went through a whole bunch of wire wheels trying to clean that babe up. Lasted for about 2 years.
Try it, you'll be surprised. You'll find out that you can be working on other tasks with your project while the parts 'cook'.

I worked for a Tool Room Manager who had a neat saying:
"Don't resist attempting different methods to accomplish the task at hand..."

I've got (3) more salvage plates in a box, and two more still on the vehicle that need doing.
Plus all (32) leaves from the spring packs. Can't do the spring leafs in electrolytic solution due to possible hydrogen embrittlement.
With the leafs I am using knotted wire wheels on a 4-1/2" grinder, and it is wearing my arms off and making my shoulder ache.

</end soapbox>


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