# Drum switch wiring  help



## tawas23 (Aug 31, 2014)

First off I know little about wiring so plz be patience with me on this one ..need help wiring my drum switch ..on the motor 1/4 hp it runs counter clockwise now and on motor sticker it says reverse red and blk wires to run clockwise ..here are pics of what I have ..just need a simple way of connecting my wires with my drum switch 1)White 2)black 3)blue 4)green ...plz refer to these numbers for my wires or color ...


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## wa5cab (Aug 31, 2014)

tawas,

There are dozens of configurations for drum switches, only some of which will reverse a single phase motor.  The way that the terminals on yours are numbered and laid out, I would suspect it may be good only for 3-phase reversible and single phase non-reversible motors.  You need to locate and post a photo of the wiring or schematic diagram of the switch.  

Second, an externally reversible single phase motor will have five wires coming out of it (one being the green ground wire), not four.  The green wire will tie to the motor frame and the switch enclosure (not actually to the switch.  Line would normally be run into the switch (three wires counting the green ground wire) and connect to two terminals on the switch.  Five wires would come out of the switch (counting ground) and run to the motor.  The four working wires from the switch would be connected to L1 and L2 in the motor plus you would have to cut off the female spade connectors and splice the third and fourth wires from the switch to the black and red wires in the motor.  You can't connect those wires to the male spades as those will tie internally to L1 and L2.

Robert D.


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## tawas23 (Aug 31, 2014)

LOST ..so this motor cannot be use to run forward and reverse ..but lost at every thing you just said


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## John Hasler (Aug 31, 2014)

tawas23 said:


> LOST ..so this motor cannot be use to run forward and reverse ..but lost at every thing you just said



It can.  You'd have to disconnect the red and black wires from the terminals and splice wires to them to extent them over to the switch.  You'd also need to run wires from terminals 2 and 4 to the switch and a wire from the L1 terminal (ground too, of course).  The power cord would go to the switch.  How to connect up the switch, though, depends on it's wiring diagram.


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## tawas23 (Aug 31, 2014)

after doing alot of reading Iam going to do myself a favor and have someone do this for me  to confusing and cannot understand it to save my life ..thanks for trying to help ..


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## Ulma Doctor (Aug 31, 2014)

disconnect red wire at motor terminal L2,
 disconnect black wire at motor terminal 4.
extend the red wire to drum switch terminal N2 
extend the black wire to drum switch terminal C2

install a wire from drum terminal C3 back to motor terminal L2
install a wire from drum terminal N1 back to motor terminal 4

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REVERSE DIRECTIONS WHILE MOTOR IS IN MOTION. 

i hope the info helps out.


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## John Hasler (Aug 31, 2014)

Ulma Doctor said:


> disconnect red wire at motor terminal L2,
> disconnect black wire at motor terminal 4.
> extend the red wire to drum switch terminal N2
> extend the black wire to drum switch terminal C2
> ...



If I understand you correctly that will reverse the motor but won't stop it.  He'll need a seperate on/off switch.  That would be an odd way to use a drum switch.


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## Ulma Doctor (Aug 31, 2014)

John Hasler said:


> If I understand you correctly that will reverse the motor but won't stop it.  He'll need a seperate on/off switch.  That would be an odd way to use a drum switch.



i don't think you understand me correctly,

the drum switch is a 3 position, the center is off(open) it would in effect break the neutral leg to the windings,
if the motor is wired to a machine, most likely it already has an on off switch.


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## wa5cab (Aug 31, 2014)

tawas,

No, I said that you would have to make a simple modification to the motor (remote the red and black wires instead of plugging them into the motor circuit board) but the motor could be made externally reversible (i.e., controlled for both ON-OFF and FWD-REV from a remote switch).  As far as I can tell, you only attached three photos, two of the motor and one of the switch.  Correct?

Mike,

See PM.

Robert D.


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## John Hasler (Sep 1, 2014)

Ulma Doctor said:


> i don't think you understand me correctly,
> 
> the drum switch is a 3 position, the center is off(open) it would in effect break the neutral leg to the windings,
> if the motor is wired to a machine, most likely it already has an on off switch.



I believe that terminals L1 and L2 are internally connected (via the thermal cutout) to one of the windings (probably the aux, by way of the cap and cent. switch).  You are only removing power from one winding.

In any case, you should never shut off a piece of equipment by interrupting the neutral and leaving the hot connected.


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## Ulma Doctor (Sep 1, 2014)

the westinghouse 316P is not a capacitor start or a capacitor run motor.

safety switches break the neutral leg on many pieces of equipment.
you aren't shutting off the equipment merely reversing direction, disconnect is done by the equipment's start/stop switch


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## tawas23 (Sep 1, 2014)

well I am getting much needed help and fully understand the posting by ulma doctor as where to connect the wires... can anyone agree thats how I should do this or can anyone be simple like his post as to where to connect my wires..thanks the pictures are all I have to go on motor pic switch pic and motor spec pic ....


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## Ulma Doctor (Sep 1, 2014)

Ulma Doctor said:


> the westinghouse 316P is not a capacitor start or a capacitor run motor.
> 
> safety switches break the neutral leg on many pieces of equipment.
> you aren't shutting off the equipment merely reversing direction, disconnect is done by the equipment's start/stop switch



don't forget 50% of the Alternating Current cycle the neutral wire is hot(conducting).


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## John Hasler (Sep 1, 2014)

Ulma Doctor said:


> the westinghouse 316P is not a capacitor start or a capacitor run motor.



You're right.   But it's still a two winding motor.  As far as I can tell you're leaving one winding powered.



> safety switches break the neutral leg on many pieces of equipment.
> you aren't shutting off the equipment merely reversing direction, disconnect is done by the equipment's start/stop switch



The center position of a drum switch is expected to be OFF.  I can't tell for sure without a diagram for that switch, but it appears to me that your circuit will disconnect the red-black winding when the switch is centered and leave the other winding powered.


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## Ulma Doctor (Sep 1, 2014)

tawas23 said:


> well I am getting much needed help and fully understand the posting by ulma doctor as where to connect the wires... can anyone agree thats how I should do this or can anyone be simple like his post as to where to connect my wires..thanks the pictures are all I have to go on motor pic switch pic and motor spec pic ....




most people age going to tell you that you can't and you shouldn't all through out your life.
don't be discouraged, there are ways of accomplishing things when you listen to people who wish to help out in attaining your goal,
 rather than telling you how you can't attain your goal and don't attempt.


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## tawas23 (Sep 1, 2014)

this is the wiring diagram the seller sent me does this help understand the switch


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## John Hasler (Sep 1, 2014)

Ulma Doctor said:


> don't forget 50% of the Alternating Current cycle the neutral wire is hot.



No it isn't.  On a US single-phase service the neutral is tied to ground at the service entrance.  The neutral is a current carrying conductor but the only voltage on it with respect to ground is the voltage drop due to the impedance of the wire from the point of measurement to the point where it is grounded.  In a 120V circuit the instantaneous voltage between the neutral and the hot varies sinusoidally between +170 and -170, giving an RMS voltage of 120.


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## wa5cab (Sep 1, 2014)

tawas,

The motor is probably a split-phase type made for fans and other low starting torque applications.  This thread isn't going anywhere useful until/unless we have the switch connection diagram.  This is usually to be found on the inside of the removable switch box cover.  If you can photograph that and attach it, I can tell you how to slightly modify the motor and how to connect it and the single-phase 115 VAC line to the switch.  

Otherwise, you are probably best served by taking the motor and switch (with cover) to someone local who can figure it out.

I'll add that a 1/4 HP motor is on the light side for the 6" Atlas.  And being of open construction, you will have to be careful not to allow swarf to be thrown into it.  A better choice would be a 1/3 HP TEFC.

Robert D.


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## John Hasler (Sep 1, 2014)

tawas23 said:


> this is the wiring diagram the seller sent me does this help understand the switch



That would help a lot if I could read it.  Unfortunately the switch diagram is illegible.  Do you have a manufacter's name and model number for the switch?  Or a better picture of the diagram?


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## wa5cab (Sep 1, 2014)

tawas (& John),

I enhanced the switch diagram you just sent while I was writing my previous as much as I could.  I can make out the five internal switch contacts across the bottom (near C1/2/3 and the first and fifth top ones nearest L1/3.  But the internal connections to the center three top ones is still just a blur.  Plus there is also no indication on the diagram of which switches close when you move the switch lever off-center in either direction.  On might guess that (numbering the switches from left to right) that 1, 3 & 5 close in one direction and 2, 4 & 5 in the other.  But that's only a guess and even if correct, the connections between 2, 3 & 4 are illegible.  

If this is the only diagram you have (even if it is actually for the switch you have as the diagram says L1, L2, L3 whereas the switch is actually marked N1, N2, N3), what can be read doesn't answer enough questions to be able to safely proceed.  

As I wrote earlier, you had better take it to someone who knows how to figure it out.

Robert D.


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## wa5cab (Sep 4, 2014)

tawas,

Do you have an ohmmeter (multimeter) or can you borrow one for a bit?  If so, send me an email address and I'll send you a switch matrix chart with instructions on how to fill it in.

Robert D.


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