# Pared Down 1440GT Order



## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

I am going to try to land a PM-1440GT with factory DRO, but I will have to keep the amount of the order to an absolute minimum. Otherwise, I risk the whole acquisition falling through (in the form of a wife veto).

Questions:
(1) (Looking ahead) Does the taper attachment interfere with the DRO scale?

(2) To what extent does one need to change gears on a 1440GT for single point threading? I don’t mind the work of changing gears, but the time that it takes is an issue for me. I had hoped to get one of the PM 16” swing machines and be done with change gears.

(3) Should I plan on getting a domestic QCTP, or can an import QCTP serve here without degrading the tight tolerances of this Taiwanese machine?

(4) Same question for chucks as in question (3) above. Should I use the chuck that comes with the machine and save up for ultra high precision chucks?


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

I currently have a PM-1030V. I love the machine, but I crash the tool a lot. I almost always work on mild steel. Parting, boring & “facing the bottom of a bored cylinder” too often ends with the cutter dug into the material which I solve by backing off or sometimes an e-stop.

I use larger (14”-16”) machines when I go to school, and I have never crashed a tool at school. The only other difference between home & school is that I use a heck of a lot more cutting fluid at home. I can’t imagine that an increase in the amount of cutting fluid would cause a tool to crash. I think that the tool crashes are due to less power and rigidity.

An example of a tool crash is a HSS insert boring a 4” deep, 2” diameter hole in mild steel with only a .003” depth of cut. A large amount of CF was used, RPM was 178, and the power feed was .0025” per revolution. At school, the machines have always been able to eat up anything that I dialed in.


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

Every time I part 2” mild steel round stock, I wish that I had a larger machine. The process can take up to an hour. I need to sharpen the blade 1 or 2 times during the process. The blade gets buried about 20 times in the process.


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## DavidR8 (May 14, 2020)

When you say crash do you mean your tool hits the chuck?
Or that you stall the work?


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> When you say crash do you mean your tool hits the chuck?
> Or that you stall the work?



I have never hit the chuck; I am super careful about that. I should have said the tool gets buried in the work.

I often wonder if I am damaging the machine for all the times that this happens. Like I said, this has never happened at school, and it happens quite frequently at home.


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

Maybe a PM-1030V isn’t the best choice to cut mild steel. I am patient, but I wonder if a 14” machine would make the work go a lot faster.


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

The sad thing is that I would not be able to fit two lathes in my garage. I can’t imagine ever parting (pun intended) with my beloved 1030.


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## DavidR8 (May 14, 2020)

Thanks for the clarification.
I've done the same thing on my South Bend 10K a couple of times. Nothing dramatic happens other than the belt pops off. 
I have no issues parting off mild steel. I use a 1/16" wide parting blade, it's razor sharp and absolutely on centre. 

Re 1440 questions Is it possible to get the manual for the lathe to understand what threads you can cut with each set of change gears?

I have an import QCTP on my SB and it works fine. Likewise my import 4-jaw. I had to disassemble to clean but after that it works fine.


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks for the clarification.
> I've done the same thing on my South Bend 10K a couple of times. Nothing dramatic happens other than the belt pops off.
> I have no issues parting off mild steel. I use a 1/16" wide parting blade, it's razor sharp and absolutely on centre.
> 
> ...



In what way does the belt pop off? My machine stalls, and I have to back off or hit the e-stop.

Is that at all alarming for you with the belt pops off? I am no longer alarmed because the machine has always started back up again for me. I imagine that my belt is slipping on the pulleys when it is stalling; if this is not the case, then a lot of heat would be generated in the motor while it is stalling, as I understand it.

So how long would it take you to part a 2” diameter mild steel round bar? How many times would you bury the parting blade into the work during this process?


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

Does anybody have anything good or otherwise to say about the 1440GT? Most everything that I have read so far has been positive.


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## DavidR8 (May 14, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> In what way does the belt pop off? My machine stalls, and I have to back off or hit the e-stop.
> 
> Is that at all alarming for you with the belt pops off? I am no longer alarmed because the machine has always started back up again for me. I imagine that my belt is slipping on the pulleys when it is stalling; if this is not the case, then a lot of heat would be generated in the motor while it is stalling, as I understand it.
> 
> So how long would it take you to part a 2” diameter mild steel round bar? How many times would you bury the parting blade into the work during this process?


The drive belt setup looks like this: (this is not my lathe but same setup)





What happens is the belt slips off the spindle pulley. In the picture it would move to the left. It's a complete non-event. I just turn off the lathe, release the tension lever so I can reinstall the belt and away I go.
I have parted 1.25" 1018 steel in about 15'ish minutes. I cannot imagine it taking an hour. One thing to note is that I don't use the power cross slide when I part.


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## benmychree (May 14, 2020)

Your parting experiences may be improved by setting the QCTP as far to the right as possible so that the tool does not hang over the front of the cross slide; this what I found out with my 9" Monarch, if the tool overhangs it tends to lean over to the left and bind up, stalling the spindle; move the post to the right and it goes away.  This machine is not worn or loose in any way, but it does this every time, except in parting very small diameters.  I use a 3/32" wide tool, anything smaller is too flexible.  On my old lathe, a 14" gear head American, I broke a lot of parting blades using Armstrong angled holders in a rocker tool post (before I bought an Aloris CA QCTP)  if the tool hung up, the rocker post would allow the blade to pull down and twist in the cut, breaking the blade, this I cured by making a solid ring the proper height to bring the blade on center; very few broken blades after that, same with the Aloris post.


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## benmychree (May 14, 2020)

Yes, parting with power feed on (especially) a small lathe is positively asking for trouble, even on a large heavy lathe it is chancey, the exception is a turret lathe with backside cutoff and plenty of cutting oil.


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

Very helpful parting info. Maybe part of the problem is that I have the compound at a 30° angle!


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## DavidR8 (May 14, 2020)

I just realized that by default I have the  compound parallel to the ways and back out so the toolpost is over top of the cross slide.


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

benmychree said:


> Yes, parting with power feed on (especially) a small lathe is positively asking for trouble, even on a large heavy lathe it is chancey, the exception is a turret lathe with backside cutoff and plenty of cutting oil.



I have never parted with power feed, and I don’t ever plan to do so.


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## benmychree (May 14, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> Very helpful parting info. Maybe part of the problem is that I have the compound at a 30° angle!


So do I, it does not matter generally as long as the exposed left side of the compound does not interfere with the chuck.


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

So I guess parting with the compound set at a 30° angle on a 10” swing lathe is not the best plan?


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## benmychree (May 14, 2020)

It is OK as long as you don't hit the chuck jaws.


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

Oh, I see what you’re saying. I can leave the compound set at a 30° angle, and just manipulate the cross slide and compound so that the QCTP is as far to the right as possible.


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

benmychree said:


> It is OK as long as you don't hit the chuck jaws.



I am always very careful to look at that, as well as turn the chuck by hand to make sure that I have clearance everywhere.


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## benmychree (May 14, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> Oh, I see what you’re saying. I can leave the compound set at a 30° angle, and just manipulate the cross slide and compound so that the QCTP is as far to the right as possible.


Yes, that is what I meant.


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

While it would be too late by that point, one can confirm that the parting tool is at the right height by observing the diameter of the pip that remains after the parting operation.


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## benmychree (May 14, 2020)

So, I guess you guys are sheltering in place as well?  Erik, I guess you know that I am just over the mountain from you?


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

benmychree said:


> So, I guess you guys are sheltering in place as well?  Erik, I guess you know that I am just over the mountain from you?



I have been home almost 100% of the time for 5 weeks, but I am going back to work (UPS driver in Calistoga) on May 18. I’m scared.


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

I am also considering saving up for another year or so and acquiring a 16” swing PM machine mainly for the purpose of getting away from change gears.

If I find out that the taper attachment on a 16” swing machine is not limited to 10” of travel then I will wait and get the big boy.

Whatever I end up doing, I have zero problems working on my 1030V until I get a larger machine.

Edit: I see that both taper attachments off up to a 10 degree taper and a 10" length.


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## benmychree (May 14, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> I have been home almost 100% of the time for 5 weeks, but I am going back to work (UPS driver in Calistoga) on May 18. I’m scared.


I hear you!  I do not worry much, as there has not been very many cases in the upper valley, only one in St. Helena, and that was early on, and Calistoga has had very few, there are currently no hosptalizations in Napa County.  I have stayed home nearly all the time, except to take rides and one time to visit my daughter and family near Occidental.  I keep at home as much as I can, due to age and health issues.


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## DavidR8 (May 14, 2020)

Be safe both of you!


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## benmychree (May 14, 2020)

I would advise, wait until you can afford the 16" with QCGB, I do not think you would regret it.  Way back in the day with letters to American Machinist magazine there was a rivalry to see who could make the tinyest parts on the biggest machine, like watch screws on like a 36" lathe! I suppose onr could google it, maybe I will!  I've heard the story from older machinists like 50 plus years ago ---


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## Janderso (May 14, 2020)

Save for the 16 Erik. You will be glad you did.


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## Aaron_W (May 14, 2020)

You can download the manual from the PM site. As far as change gears this is what the manual says:



> KEY FACTS TO REMEMBER ... TPI threads When configured for inch thread cutting (30T upper, 60T lower), with just one exception the lathe cuts all UNC and UNF threads from 1/8” (#5) to 4” diameter, 44 TPI to 4 TPI, without the need to change gears. The exception is 13 TPI, which requires 65T as the lower gear. For inch thread cutting, the 127T larger gear is simply an idler, transferring the drive from the upper gear to the lower gear. In this configuration, the spacer bushing is outside the lower gear, as Figure 3-18.





> Metric threads With the change gears supplied the lathe cuts all COARSE metric threads from M3 to M36 (pitches 0.5 to 4.0 mm) and all FINE metric threads from M4 to M100 (pitches 0.5 to 6.0 mm). For metric thread cutting, the lower gear is driven by the 120T transposing gear. In this configuration, not shown, the spacer bushing is inside the lower gear.





> Gear swapping Any change to the drive train typically calls for one or both of the upper and lower gears to be exchanged for a larger or smaller gear. This will require the transposing gear pair to be repositioned.



There have been several posts on the 1340 and 1440, and I know there are several members here who have experience with them.



I know you like the PM machines, but have you looked on Craigslist, your money will go a lot farther on a used machine.

This one has been recently re-posted but is has been up for months, I bet you could get it for less than you are looking at on that 14x40. I see lots of 14-16" lathes go through CL, they are bigger than most can fit so tend to linger. The 10-12" usually move pretty fast if priced well.

24x120"

Yeah, it is big, but it is smaller than a car so should fit into your garage. Power could be an issue, they don't mention its power supply needs.


This 15x60 is in Fremont and has been up for some time as well, asking is less than a new 1440GT and you could probably talk it down a little more.

15x60 Nardini


His and hers 16x40s for $9000 (2 lathes) in Oakland.   

Two Ganesh 16x40s


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2020)

I called PM, and they clarified what Aaron W. said: one can cut all but 13 TPI without ever changing gears. When it comes to metric thread pitches, however, one is likely to have to change gears due to the inch pitch lead screw on the 1440GT.

This being the case, I will wait and save up longer (my wife says 2 years) for the PM-1640TL or PM-1660TL because I really do have an interest in saving time by doing everything on a QCGB.


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## Stonebriar (May 14, 2020)

here is the change gear chart.  Mostly just the 13tpi is the odd ball needing a change gear.
	

		
			
		

		
	







Also No the taper attachment is not in the way of a DRO.  I have both.


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## mksj (May 14, 2020)

I guess it all depends on what you plan to do with the lathe and the frequency that you thread with metric. You will find that most lathes under 10K will have change gears and require a transposing gear to do metric. In addition, they do not provide you with a threading dial to do metric threading so the half nut cannot be released until you have completed threading. When you get into more costly and typically larger lathes, most have universal gearboxes. But they are also much more expensive and larger, tooling and chucks are bigger and a corresponding increase in cost. Larger motors are 3 phase so you either need 3 phase to your shop, a large RPC or something like a PhasePerfect which start at 5K. So you are climbing up a very steep slope once you get past the 1440 realm. The 1440GT gets you into a bigger spindle bore with a short headstock in a very functional lathe at the price level. If you only do occasional metric threading, then switching the transposing gear is no big deal, took me about 5 minutes on my previous 1340GT.  The downside on almost all sub 10K lathes is that you need quite a few change gears to do different metric threads. So do your research and check the manuals.

Many individuals have purchased the 1440GT lathe I also have converted a couple to VFD operation and I can say they are very nice lathes at the price point, and their owners are very happy with this lathe model. I do not have have any recommendations for another lathe at this price point that I can recommend, there is a heavier VFD variant (w/o the larger spindle bore) which would be the 1440TV sold by QMT or Eisen as the 1440EV. I have worked with several individuals that have also purchased this lathe. The price has gone up significantly this year, I probably would opt for the 1440TL when you are getting into this range.








						PM1440TV - Special Order
					

Coming to TX in 2-3 months. This will replace my SBL13, and maybe my ACER 1236. Ulma Doctor, the Baby Jet 1024 you sourced for me is not going anywhere. Still love that little green lathe that could.  PM-1440TV High Precision Lathe With: Complete solid one piece cast iron base Back Splash Guard...




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						EISEN 1440EV Precision Lathe, 5HP, DRO installed, Heavy Cast-Iron Base
					

EISEN 1440EV Precision Lathe, 5HP, DRO installed, Heavy Cast-Iron Base Made in Taiwan with One-Piece Cast Iron Base Inverter driven lathe can be used on 3-phase or 1-phase electricity EVS: Electronic Variable Speed •   Two step electronic variable speed 36 ~ 2500 RPM.   •   Low maintenance. Less...




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I do quite a bit (about 40%) of metric threading, and I had the opportunity to upgrade to a lathe with a true universal gearbox. I had already had the a D1-4 chucks and tooling BXA tooling so I opted for the ERL-1340, there are several variants as to motor/gearing and VFD models.  It is a much heavier machine than the 1340/1440GT models. This lathe was a special order through QMT, if I could have handled a heavier lathe (and didn't have my current tooling) than I would have opted for the 1440TL (same cost).








						ERL-1340 Lathe VFD Control System and Additions
					

Ordered an ERL-1340 last year to replace my PM-1340GT that I had for 6 years. I was moving and I felt it was "easier" to sell the 1340GT and order an ERL-1340 through QMT to be delivered to my new address. It took about 4 months to get the lathe in and then setup delivery. Due to the weight of...




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My friend purchased the 1640TL variant from Acra (1640TE) and I can say it is a massive lathe for it's size and beautifully made. His thread on that lathe is below. You are talking about a big jump up in expense over the 1440GT and moving to larger heavier chucks/tooling. He does some serious machining so for him the 1640 size was more ideal. He has a 3400 sq foot shop with all sorts of heavy machinery. I installed the the VFD system on his machine that we ran off of the shop RPC.








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The machine was ordered mid December of 2017 from ACRA Machinery. The machine took a few weeks to arrive from Taiwan and was shipped to the port of LA, then onto Ranch Cucamonga where ACRA is located. The machine was then delivered to my location via flatbed. The machine sustained a fair amount...




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When you start getting over 3HP most lathes will be 3 phase, so you need to factor in that cost. Most of the lathe owners I know use 3 phase motors on their lathe due to better surface finish and higher reliability, so either VFD or RPC is an additional expense.

So if you have the time to wait and money to burn, you can always get more, but the machine does not make the machinist.


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## shooter123456 (May 14, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> Maybe a PM-1030V isn’t the best choice to cut mild steel.





erikmannie said:


> I have never parted with power feed, and I don’t ever plan to do so.


There is nothing wrong with parting with the power feed.  I used to be afraid to do so and I was doing myself a disservice.  The machine will feed far more consistently than we can and that will help prevent the tool from getting buried.  The PM1030v is more than capable of handling mild steel.  I parted 1.5" 4140 to make a bunch of tool holders and 1.25" 304 stainless for a paid job on the 1030v with HSS parting blades.  The 304 stainless I ran at a pretty high speed (Like 600 RPM off if I remember right) with the highest feed rate.  When everything is tight, the machine can handle it.  Even cutting that 304 that hard and fast (It was a RUSHED job), I only needed to touch up the tool every 10ish cuts.


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## matthewsx (May 14, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> I called PM, and they clarified what Aaron W. said: one can cut all but 13 TPI without ever changing gears. When it comes to metric thread pitches, however, one is likely to have to change gears due to the inch pitch lead screw on the 1440GT.
> 
> This being the case, I will wait and save up longer (my wife says 2 years) for the PM-1640TL or PM-1660TL because I really do have an interest in saving time by doing everything on a QCGB.



Will just give you more time to get better with the 10x30. 

Hows the property thing going?

John


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## Boxster9 (May 15, 2020)

Eric, I purchased a 3-phase 1440 GT about two years ago and it has held up well. Never have changed gears for threading imperial threads.  Not used in production so I don't push it and it responds kindly and accurately.  Glad I made the jump and highly recommend the quality of the machine. Matt and Company are great to deal with-very professional.Good luck in finding your ideal Lathe.


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## davidpbest (May 15, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> Every time I part 2” mild steel round stock, I wish that I had a larger machine. The process can take up to an hour. I need to sharpen the blade 1 or 2 times during the process. The blade gets buried about 20 times in the process.


Sounds to me like parting is an issue for you - it was for me as well.   Hopefully my attached document will give some suggestions.


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## wrmiller (May 15, 2020)

Parting 2" steel on a lathe? That's what my bandsaw is for. Truing up the end then takes a couple of minutes.


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## erikmannie (May 16, 2020)

wrmiller said:


> Parting 2" steel on a lathe? That's what my bandsaw is for. Truing up the end then takes a couple of minutes.



I definitely don’t have the room and probably don’t have the money for a bandsaw.


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## erikmannie (May 16, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> Will just give you more time to get better with the 10x30.
> 
> Hows the property thing going?
> 
> John



I had hoped to build a two car garage on the bare lot. I found out that you have to build a primary structure first. The quote for a small house was $57,000.

I am headed to Ohio to school in the spring. It would take me at least two years to get the money to build a primary structure. So that’s two years of staying in a motel.

By the time I got a house up, I would be about 30% of the way through school.

I listed the lot for sale. When I looked at motel prices, I realized that I could live in a minivan for 2 months a year for 5-10 years, and use the money that I would have spent on a motel for the huge lathe that is the topic of this thread.

It seems safer to spend my money on tools and tuition than on building a house. You can’t really go wrong spending money on tools and tuition.


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## matthewsx (May 16, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> I had hoped to build a two car garage on the bare lot. I found out that you have to build a primary structure first. The quote for a small house was $57,000.
> 
> I am headed to Ohio to school in the spring. It would take me at least two years to get the money to build a primary structure. So that’s two years of staying in a motel.
> 
> ...



Hopefully you get your money out, or maybe a little more. 

Who knows what this summer will bring....

John


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## wrmiller (May 16, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> I definitely don’t have the room and probably don’t have the money for a bandsaw.



We do the best we can with what we have.


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## Aaron_W (May 16, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> I definitely don’t have the room and probably don’t have the money for a bandsaw.



The Harbor Freight 4x6 bandsaws work pretty well, are about the size of a sawhorse and are only $200. If that is too big the hand held portable bandsaws are an option. A good name brand is about $300 but I regularly see used corded Milwaukee porta-bands on Craigslist for $50-150, and HF has one of their house brand saws for $89.

I was very reluctant to buying a 4x6 due to space concerns but you couldn't get me to give that saw up now.


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## DavidR8 (May 16, 2020)

+1 on the bandsaw. 
I got mine used. Did a bit of tuneup work and it’s been a real treat to have. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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