# Buying a metal lathe



## xyz07 (Sep 7, 2020)

Being new here, I’m not sure if this is the right forum for the topic. Anyhow, I’m looking for a decent quality lathe, mostly for turning small steel parts. Preferably under $1k. 14” or more center to center. The options involving new machines are rather limited: there are Chinese generic platforms (starting from around $500 on eBay), but, according to reviews, quality is hit and miss. There’s Sherline, probably of a nice quality, but fairly costly with accessories; also, feedback about it in terms of metalworking varies greatly. Finally, there is a huge variety of overpriced “antiques” (used solidly built machines anywhere between 20 and 100+ years old, of uncertain - but likely high - degrees of wear). No question that South Bends or Logans were way better than a $500 Chinese lathe when they were new, but after all those years it’s really hard to tell... I would greatly appreciate any comments/advice on the options outlined above or any others.


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## matthewsx (Sep 7, 2020)

Hi and welcome.

Your question is one that many have asked and even more have answered. Common considerations are what are you planning to make, how much of a project can you tolerate, and are you ready to spend 2 or 3 times your stated budget 

I highly recommend looking at the thread @DavidR8 started when he was looking for a lathe earlier this year or maybe last. New machines under $1000 have a high likelihood of being a disappointment but you can get decent used machines in that range if you are patient.

That's the biggest thing, patience but being ready to buy when the right deal comes along.

You'll get lots of good advice here but you can learn even more by reading all the "what first lathe?" threads on here.

Cheers,

John


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## matthewsx (Sep 7, 2020)

If you want to get your feet wet here's a small machine in your price range.









						Unimat Lathe - general for sale - by owner
					

I have a Unimat Lathe, acquired from my late uncle. His hobbies were model making and HO trains....



					houston.craigslist.org
				




John


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## Aukai (Sep 7, 2020)

One of our talented members has been putting his through it's paces. A little short in the bed length though.








						Torture Testing the Unimat SL1000
					

I have a Unimat SL1000 and a DB200. they are enchanting due to their small footprint as well as for the precision in which they are made.  I'm torture testing my SL1000 to find the boundaries of operation. (and possibly step over them from time to time) for the control portion of the experiment...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## xyz07 (Sep 7, 2020)

I appreciate the comments. I've looked at Unimats. True - it is a bit short for me, plus I've been a bit turned off by the tubular bed - not sure if it would be rigid enough to handle metalworking with acceptable precision (?).

So - no Sherline aficionados here?  That was my "primary target," until I was told to stay away by someone quite knowledgeable and experienced . Almost ordered the 17" version.


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## Jubil (Sep 7, 2020)

xyz07 said:


> I appreciate the comments. I've looked at Unimats. True - it is a bit short for me, plus I've been a bit turned off by the tubular bed - not sure if it would be rigid enough to handle metalworking with acceptable precision (?).
> 
> So - no Sherline aficionados here?  That was my "primary target," until I was told to stay away by someone quite knowledgeable and experienced . Almost ordered the 17" version.



Mikey will probably chime in soon. He uses a Sherline, I think. And does some excellent work with it. Also is very prone to share his extensive knowledge.

Chuck


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## erikmannie (Sep 7, 2020)

If I were to buy a lathe smaller than my 10X30, I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a Sherline. I researched them extensively on the internet and I found no reason to look further. One wonders, however, if the limited rigidity would hamper your work efforts.


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## ShagDog (Sep 7, 2020)

I would recommend a Taig, in the size category you are seeking; except, they don't offer the same extended bed length as the longer Sherline model.  I think Taig is about 9.75" between centers.


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## erikmannie (Sep 7, 2020)

Check out Frank Hoose on YouTube:









						Frank Hoose
					

Product reviews, tutorials and information about metal-working mini lathes, mini mills and other tools for the home-shop machinist and model engineer




					m.youtube.com


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## addertooth (Sep 7, 2020)

Some things to consider with your mini-lathe purchase:

RPMs, If you are going to mostly be working surfaces which are 1 to 2 inches in diameter, the typical 2500 Max RPM mini-lathes can be good.  If you are working larger diameters, you will need a lathe which can turn slower AND have good torque.  If you are planning on making 1/8th to 1/4 inch items, you may find that 2500 RPMs may not leave the finish you desire.

Length: or, the dreaded mini-lathe math issue.  The Short answer is, for drilling a bore, subtract roughly 8 to 10 inches from the advertise length of the lathe, and that will be the maximum length of part you can work.  Many of the length measurements (for lathes) are from the face of the chuck to the tailstock spindle (with the tailstock pulled fully back, and the quill of the tailstock cranked until it is fully back.  The quill has to be moved forward about 3/4 to 1 inch to accept a Morris number 2 taper drill bit or chuck.   Then you have the length of the drill (or with a chuck, the length of the chuck Plus the length of the drill).  For drilling operations, you may discover you can only work a part that is 2 inches long with some of the smaller length lathes.  Drilling is often done before machining a more precise bore.

Motor: Short answer, Brushless is preferred over brushed motors for reliability.  They typically generate more torque than brushed motors.  For a mini-lathe, I like brushless motors with variable speed control.  For a big lathe (outside your price range), a robust all metal transmission with an AC motor.

Tool Post: an OXA quick change tool post (QCTP) is preferred.  The typical tool posts on mini lathes assume you have a stack of shims handy to set the ideal tool height.  Most people starting out don't have a "shim collection" laying around.  The QCTP posts don't need shims to set tool height.

Chuck: Larger the better.  Not only does it act as a flywheel to keep RPM variations (and vibrations) to a minimum, but the specifications on many of them are a bit misleading.  My 4 inch chuck can only open up to grip a part that is about 2 inches in diameter.  To hold a larger part, I must swap jaws on my chuck.  A 3 inch chuck is very limiting, and is the common size on inexpensive lathes.

Now, the reality check comes due.  I think of mini-lathes as a "platform" to build a good lathe.  Most common modifications to improve them include:

Headstock bearings: Press out original bearings and replace them with tapered bearings.  This also mean you need a shorter keyed spacer between the (thicker) tapered bearings and the spindle gear. (True for Sieg, Grizzly, Little Machine Shop, harbor freight, and some others), not true for all mini-lathes.

Brass Gibs:  Yes, you can polish and shape the gibs that come with the lathe to improve them.  Or, you can buy precisely made brass Gibs and swap them out (preferred).

Gears:  Most inexpensive mini-lathes come with plastic gears.  An experienced person, who works to align them, and never stresses them, may get years of satisfaction with them.  Most newbies will end up stripping them at the least opportune time.  Consider purchasing a Metal Gear Set to reduce frustration.

Tool Post: If it didn't come with a Quick Change Tool Post, consider this as a worthy upgrade to increase ease of use.

Other things needed/desired:

Grinder: Unless you want to buy a new tool when your old one gets dull, consider a grinder with a platen which can be set at an angle.  Learn the dark arts of tool grinding.  You can certainly go the route of buying cutting tools with replaceable carbide too.

Saw: A small lathe only works with short lengths of stock.  You will probably enjoy the first 5 or 6 times you have to hacksaw through 2 inch stock, but after that, it will seem like work.  Most steel shop workers will hide, when they see the guy who wants 20 pieces of steel which are 2 to 6 inches long.

Bench: Something really stout.  Wood, even thick wood eventually bows and flexes under the weight of even a tiny lathe. This changes the "level" of the lathe over time.

Sweat Equity: Your lathe and table will need leveled.  Your lathe will need the Gibs replaced/adjusted. Your lathe will require initial cleaning and then lubrication.  It will need periodic cleaning and lubrication.  Your headstock may need aligning, your tailstock is almost certain to need aligning.

Other needed goodies: A set of micrometers, a 6 inch digital/dial caliper, an indicator with magnetic base, cutting tools for left hand/right hand/threading/boring, and drills of multiple sizes.  A drill chuck with the correct taper for your tail stock.  If your tools use carbide replaceable inserts, at least ten spare inserts sitting around.  I find a steady rest useful for larger diameter stock (the chucks on mini-lathes don't grip as firmly as bigger lathes).  And let's not forget books on machining, to a newbie they are invaluable.

I don't mean to scare you off, but the running joke around here is: "I spent more on my tools, than what my entire lathe cost".  Budget accordingly.


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## xyz07 (Sep 7, 2020)

Thanks again for the great tips! Sort of waiting for more votes / more details that would provide a firm validation or firm rejection of the Sherline option . Based on my research, this is the only brand (other than TAIG mentioned above, which have shorter platforms) that can be had for under $1k while almost never receiving any quality complaints.


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## Aukai (Sep 7, 2020)

Without asking Mikey specifically, just that he has one, and is keeping it, is a positive evaluation of the quality.


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## mikey (Sep 7, 2020)

xyz07 said:


> Thanks again for the great tips! Sort of waiting for more votes / more details that would provide a firm validation or firm rejection of the Sherline option . Based on my research, this is the only brand (other than TAIG mentioned above, which have shorter platforms) that can be had for under $1k while almost never receiving any quality complaints.



Hey xyz, I'm Mikey and I own a Sherline lathe. The first thing I would like to know is if the "knowledgeable" guy you mentioned ever actually put his hands on a Sherline lathe. In my experience, the most vigorous critics have never even seen one, let alone operated one. Not sure where this negativity comes from but anyone who has ever owned a lathe will tell you that you do not know a lathe until you've lived with it for a while, and I have lived with a Sherline lathe for over 35 years so I sort of know a little bit about it. 

You mentioned in your original post that you are looking to turn small steel parts and want to keep your lathe purchase under $1K. Any other details you care to share? For example, are you a model maker, Horologist or are you just a hobby guy looking to get into machining? Any idea of the largest work piece you are likely to make?

Pending your input, let me give you a general overview of the Sherline lathe.

It is small and light. You can store it on a shelf and take it down when you need it. As long as it is mounted on a solid platform, this lathe will maintain its accuracy and levelness for years. Mine has been stable for 35 years on the same piece of Melamine ply and I move it all the time.
It can handle 1-1/4" over the cross slide. This is important because this is the largest diameter you can turn from end to end unless you use riser blocks. With risers, you can double this clearance, making the Sherline the equivalent of a 6" mini-lathe. I don't use these blocks because it reduces rigidity but they are available for the occasional big work piece.
It uses a 0.08HP DC motor that can go from a crawl to 2800 real RPM and maintain torque throughout the range. There are two pulley positions for the belt - high speed/lower torque, low speed/higher torque. I mostly run in the high speed range and never had the lathe bog or slip a belt, even when taking heavy cuts. With the right tool, this lathe will take a 0.050" deep cut in mild steel for an overall diameter reduction of 0.100", something that even a 9 or 10" lathe will struggle to do. Make no mistake. The Sherline lathe is small but it is a real lathe and can do real work.
This lathe is precise, meaning it is capable of doing precision work. The Sherline leadscrews are very precise. If I dial in 0.005" of cut, that is what I get. If I dial in 0.0001", that is what I get. You will find that how big a cut a lathe can take is not nearly as important as how accurately it can take small cuts to come in on size. I usually work to personal tolerances of +/- 0.0005" or less because on this lathe, I can.
This lathe will cut pretty much whatever a hobby guy runs across - stainless, mild steel, titanium, brass, plastics, aluminum, wood, etc. If a regular lathe can cut it, a Sherline lathe can, too.
My 4400 lathe is fully manual but I have an outboard DC variable speed motor on the leadscrew for power feed. With it and the motor speed control, I can alter spindle speed and feeds on the fly to give me incredible control of the cut in real time. In manual mode without power feed, I do admit it is a bit tedious hand cranking to move the carriage around but to be honest, this never really registers and I just work without thinking about it. I raise this to advise you that you will have to turn wheels to do things on this lathe. It is not a problem.
Sherline has the largest inventory of accessories of any machine tool manufacturer. If you need something to do something, Sherline will have it OR you can usually make it yourself if you also have a Sherline mill. The quality of Sherline accessories, especially their chucks, is really hard to beat. Nobody, and that includes Taig, even comes close in this size of machine.
But all is not roses. Here are some negatives.

The lathe is small and there will be times when you are pushing the size envelope with this machine. If you can fit it on the lathe, the lathe will cut it. The problem is that some work just will not fit and then you're sort of screwed. It is why I now own a larger lathe but it took over 20 years before I was forced to buy it.
The Sherline tailstock is not adjustable and this well and truly sucks. There are work arounds, like their adjustable live centers, but this is the single biggest negative to this lathe. It isn't truly that horrible. Mine is something like 0.001" or so off, I think, but on a long work piece this is a pain to deal with. You would think they would have made it laterally adjustable after all this time but they haven't. I got around this issue by making a better live center.
You have to use a threading attachment to cut threads. The motor has to come off and you have to attach a gear cluster to the end of the lathe to use it, which is a pain at times. On the other hand, this arrangement allows you to cut more threads than any other lathe I have seen and it is capable of cutting class 3 internal and external threads all day. Feed is manual so no worries about crashing or damaging anything and control is extremely fine so while it can be a pain to set up, it works very well.
They have engineered plastic gibs. This is not a negative really. I raise it because others will. The gibs on Sherline machines will probably outlast the machine itself, rarely needs adjusting and allow the machine to take cuts it really shouldn't be able to take. They are a superb piece of engineering that allows a machine that is largely made from aluminum to function without much wear at all over decades of use. My lathe is over 35 years old and has almost zero wear on the ways or anywhere else. The same thing applies to my mill. The naysayers don't know what they're talking about.  
I hope this helps. Almost everything I know about machining was learned on Sherline machines. They are real machine tools and can do real work. If they fit your work envelope then they are worthy of your consideration. If you have questions, I can probably answer them or point you in the right direction.


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## Aaron_W (Sep 7, 2020)

I'm a Sherline owner, and quite happy with mine. It is limited in size but if the work fits, it is a nice lathe. 

Whatever you get, a more realistic budget is $1500-2000. 

The base Sherline lathe is around $600, but that is just the lathe. They have a well equipped package deal (the C package) that comes with the most popular accessories at a significant discount, but that does bump the price to almost $1300.

There are risers allowing larger work to be done at some loss of rigidity. I don't have them, some say they work well, some don't like them.

Taig has its fans, the big plus seems to be that it is slightly larger than a Sherline, cheaper and seems very popular to modify. It does not have Sherline's large list of accessories although many are compatible with it.

Unimat is sort of a proto Sherline. Capable of similar size work, but long out of production. Sherline does offer some accessories made to fit a Unimat. Unimats also have a bit of a collector appeal which can result in higher prices although they do still turn up at a reasonable price if you are patient.

If you want something bigger, the 8x16, 9x19 and 10x22 import lathes are better options than the various 7x lathes. Lots of options on older lathes but that is a whole other hole to delve into.

Last comment on the Sherline. Look up Luiz Ally on YouTube, that should silence most critics.


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## Aaron_W (Sep 7, 2020)

One last thing, Sherline and Taig are USA made, in Southern California and Arizona.. Unimat is European (Austria Ithink) if that matters to you.

Sherline has great customer service and a lot of their accessories have been developed based on owners feedback.


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## xyz07 (Sep 7, 2020)

Thanks for all the great tips and comments! Just what I was hoping for when I joined HM - finally got clarity on how to proceed with my lathe quest.


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## ArmyDoc (Sep 11, 2020)

mikey said:


> Hey xyz, I'm Mikey and I own a Sherline lathe. The first thing I would like to know is if the "knowledgeable" guy you mentioned ever actually put his hands on a Sherline lathe. In my experience, the most vigorous critics have never even seen one, let alone operated one. Not sure where this negativity comes from but anyone who has ever owned a lathe will tell you that you do not know a lathe until you've lived with it for a while, and I have lived with a Sherline lathe for over 35 years so I sort of know a little bit about it.
> 
> You mentioned in your original post that you are looking to turn small steel parts and want to keep your lathe purchase under $1K. Any other details you care to share? For example, are you a model maker, Horologist or are you just a hobby guy looking to get into machining? Any idea of the largest work piece you are likely to make?
> 
> ...


Wow Mikey, that's an incredible endorsement.  Seems to me I saw a video where someone attached his Sherline to the cross-slide of a much larger lathe to do drilling/milling of a part on that lathe... pretty versatile machine.

You have seen my posts.  After reading your post, I can't help but wonder if the Sherline might not be a good first purchase for me, with a plan to buy a larger lathe at a later date.  Any thoughts on this?


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## xyz07 (Sep 11, 2020)

ArmyDoc said:


> Wow Mikey, that's an incredible endorsement.  Seems to me I saw a video where someone attached his Sherline to the cross-slide of a much larger lathe to do drilling/milling of a part on that lathe... pretty versatile machine.
> 
> You have seen my posts.  After reading your post, I can't help but wonder if the Sherline might not be a good first purchase for me, with a plan to buy a larger lathe at a later date.  Any thoughts on this?



I already bought one per Mike's recommendation . I followed a "decision tree" in terms of lathe selection. Do I want to have something that takes a forklift to move (even for a great price)? At this time, being strictly a hobbyist - no, I don't. Also, I actually want to put it inside the house (better both for the machine and for me - summers here are awful, humidity is usually high). Furthermore, say I ran into that elusive 70-year old South Bend for $300 (though I likely won't). How would I assess its condition (considering my current state of ignorance )? And how much $$ would it take to bring it to a functional state of a high-precision machine, given all the (unavoidable) wear on bearings, etc.? Then there were the inexpensive Chinese mini lathes with pretty nice features, but seems like lots of folks are having quality issues with those... Plastic gears seem a bit scary... And building them into a decent machine would likely require some investment. Anyhow, these were the basic parts of my decision-making process, but YMMV, of course.


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## mikey (Sep 11, 2020)

ArmyDoc said:


> Wow Mikey, that's an incredible endorsement.  Seems to me I saw a video where someone attached his Sherline to the cross-slide of a much larger lathe to do drilling/milling of a part on that lathe... pretty versatile machine.
> 
> You have seen my posts.  After reading your post, I can't help but wonder if the Sherline might not be a good first purchase for me, with a plan to buy a larger lathe at a later date.  Any thoughts on this?



Morning, Doc. Yes, I've seen your posts and I know you're struggling with this decision. I know it's a tough one.

If I remember correctly, you live on a farm and are building a shop, right? You're heading toward retirement in the near future and can take a well deserved break - do it; I highly recommend retirement!

If you were a city feller living in an apartment or an old guy dabbling in metalworking on a limited budget then I think a Sherline is a really good place to start. However, your environment suggests to me that a larger lathe would be more useful and appropriate to your needs. If I lived on a farm and anticipated the need to keep things running, the smallest lathe I would even consider would be a 13 or 14" lathe. That would be even more so if you were a gun guy and anticipate doing some gun work. A Sherline would be a good lathe to have for small precision work but not as a primary lathe.

I own an Emco Super 11 CD. Compared to the lathes many of our members own, it is a small lathe but it suits my needs perfectly. It is extremely accurate, rigid and powerful for what it is but it still gets used maybe 40% of the time. My Sherline does most of the lifting in my shop because most of my work is small and requires precision. My Emco is precise enough but for me the smaller lathe is easier to work with. For you, I would imagine that most of your work would be on a larger lathe and the Sherline would be used for the rare small part you would need. 

I am not with the "buy the biggest lathe you can fit or afford" crowd but I do believe that the lathe must be able to do what you need it to do. As you mature in this hobby your capabilities will grow exponentially and what you thought was adequate will quickly turn into being too small and limiting, especially given where you live (a farm). 

I would be more than happy to discuss this further with you in a PM if you like.


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## ArmyDoc (Sep 11, 2020)

Thanks!  I will send you a PM when it gets a little closer.  They finish clearing this week... now I get to start getting rid of stumps.  Then I get to grade the site for the shop.  Hopefully by October we can get started on construction.


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## mickri (Sep 12, 2020)

Congrats on pulling the trigger on a sherline.  Now the fun begins.  We get to help you spend more $$$$ than you can imagine on stuff that you think you have to have and can't live without.  The reality is that most of that stuff you will never use  Instead of buying everything under the sun to start with only buy what you need to accomplish the project at hand.  And buy the best quality you can afford.

If you haven't read Mikey's very, very long thread on grinding tool bits put that at the top of your list.  I have read it start to finish several times.  And still consult it often.  Having properly ground, sharp tool bits makes a world of difference.

Even though I have been at this for several years I am still an rank newbie at machining.  IMHO Mr. Pete aka Tubalcain has the best instructional videos on the internet.  He is a retired high school shop teacher and knows how to teach.  He is my go to source for the basics.  This website ranks right up there with Mr. Pete as the best source of information on machining.

And we love to read about member's projects.  Don't be shy.  Let us know what you are up to.


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## NC Rick (Sep 12, 2020)

mickri said:


> Congrats on pulling the trigger on a sherline.  Now the fun begins.  We get to help you spend more $$$$ than you can imagine on stuff that you think you have to have and can't live without.  The reality is that most of that stuff you will never use  Instead of buying everything under the sun to start with only buy what you need to accomplish the project at hand.  And buy the best quality you can afford.
> 
> If you haven't read Mikey's very, very long thread on grinding tool bits put that at the top of your list.  I have read it start to finish several times.  And still consult it often.  Having properly ground, sharp tool bits makes a world of difference.
> 
> ...


Mr. pete is great.  The person I wish I had as a shop teacher is Marc, aka "That Lazy Machinist".  fantastic stuff available on the 'Tube! For beginners or anyone, "Blondihacks" has become quite good at providing intelligent insight.  Joe Piezinsky (sorry for the butchered spelling) has learned me some good stuff but is not at beginner focused IMO.


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## projectnut (Sep 12, 2020)

When looking for a lathe the stated overall length and throw over the bed can be somewhat confusing issues.  Some manufacturers use the total length of the bed, while others give the usable length.  I have 2 machines that may be a bit larger that the one you're looking for. One is a Sheldon model MW 56P,  the other is a Seneca Falls Star #20 machine  For the Sheldon the letters MW designate the drive style, 56 designates the total length of the bed, and P designates it's a pedestal style machine.

In this case 56" is the length of the bed from the spindle nose (without a chuck installed) to the end of the bed.  The working distance is much shorter depending on whether you use a 3 or 4 jaw chuck or a collet system.  With a collet system the working length between the nose of the collet and the tailstock is 34".  That distance can be reduced another 6" to 8" depending on the size of the 3 or 4 jaw chuck you are using.

The Seneca Falls machine is advertised as a 9" x 60" machine.  In this case both dimensions are a bit deceiving.  The 9" supposedly refers to the swing over the bed.  In reality the swing is 10-1/4" rather than 9".  Why they chose to do this is beyond me..  Like the Sheldon machine the advertised length of 60" is from the face of the spindle to the end of the bed.  The working length when using a collet system is a little over 50", and is reduced another 4" to 6" depending on the size of the 3 or 4 jaw chuck used.


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## xyz07 (Sep 12, 2020)

mickri said:


> Congrats on pulling the trigger on a sherline.  Now the fun begins.  We get to help you spend more $$$$ than you can imagine on stuff that you think you have to have and can't live without.  The reality is that most of that stuff you will never use  Instead of buying everything under the sun to start with only buy what you need to accomplish the project at hand.  And buy the best quality you can afford.
> 
> If you haven't read Mikey's very, very long thread on grinding tool bits put that at the top of your list.  I have read it start to finish several times.  And still consult it often.  Having properly ground, sharp tool bits makes a world of difference.
> 
> ...



I know you guys will get that smile off my face (well, maybe not - more likely my wife's face when she finds out about that $$$$ ). Will make sure to keep you posted once I feel I have something worthy of bragging about (remember - I'm just a humble beginner now).


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## mickri (Sep 12, 2020)

Most of us on here are humble beginners.  You will have lots of questions.  Don't be afraid to ask.  The people who really know their stuff will bend over backwards to help you out.


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## xyz07 (Sep 12, 2020)

mickri said:


> Most of us on here are humble beginners.  You will have lots of questions.  Don't be afraid to ask.  The people who really know their stuff will bend over backwards to help you out.



I really appreciate it, and it has already been a great experience. Newbies get all sorts of treatment on other websites, but you guys have an amazing community here - everyone has been very nice and supportive right from the start.


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## Aukai (Sep 12, 2020)

I was totally in the dark when I started, and this is the only machining web site I am on. From knowing nothing to the point now that I feel like a 12v bulb in a 6v socket, just starting to have a glimmer


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## mikey (Sep 12, 2020)

It is good to know that everyone, including pro machinists, starts out knowing nothing. This has nothing to do with intelligence; it has to do with learning and experience that will come with time. Ask, learn and share. There is a lot to learn in this hobby.

One day, when some new guy asks a question, remember where and how you began and be gentle with them.


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## Aukai (Sep 12, 2020)

And as you are going along you will be getting more experience, and you will also find out that experience is something you get right after you needed it....


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