# Borite Carbide boring bars, are they any good?



## Ken from ontario (Feb 27, 2017)

I only have a single 1/2" boring bar from Mesa tool that has a flat edge on the shank ,I may occasionally need to bore smaller diameter than 1/2" so I found this set on ebay (1/2" shank on all 3):




the bars in this Borite set do not have that flat edge, I'm thinking if I mill the flat myself  I could  use them with my boring head.
I'm not sure about the quality though, are these any better than the cheap imports? will the round shank cause  problems when tightening the setscrew in the boring head?
The price is $40 plus shipping, or I could make a lower offer, you comments and opinions are appreciated.


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## mikey (Feb 27, 2017)

The cobalt bars will cut finer and finish better than the brazed carbide bars will. Remember that carbide needs speed to finish well and speed with a boring head leads to higher centripetal forces and greater vibration. You are better off with cobalt bars, in my opinion.


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## Ken from ontario (Feb 27, 2017)

Thanks Mike.
The Boring bars sold by Mesa tool don't go any smaller than 1/2" unfortunately otherwise they would be my first choice, I totally forgot about the need for speed with cabide , thanks for bring that up, I 'll forget about that deal then.


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## Chipper5783 (Feb 28, 2017)

Those brazed carbide bars would work fine - in either a boring head on a mill or on the lathe in some sort of tool holder.  You don't need the flat, that is simply a convenience (for repeatability and so the burr doesn't cause problems).  Don't worry about that little flat.

You do need to be comfortable grinding the cutting edge, but that is no different than any brazed carbide tooling (I buy the cheapo ones, they require grinding right out of the package).

3 bars for $40.  Price out the cheapo ones - you can probably get a set of 9 for that price.

The issue with running carbide at speed is really not a big deal - you do not have to run it fast.  Of course it usually works better at the designed cutting speed, but that does not mean it won't work at lower speeds.  I try to run carbide at about 3x the speed of high speed steel - but if the job won't allow it, don't sweat it.


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## mikey (Feb 28, 2017)

Just like on a lathe, brazed carbide will work in a boring head but it will not finish nearly as well as HSS or cobalt, and there are times when a fine finish is important. I also find that cobalt bars are more accurate because they deflect less than carbide at the speeds a smaller mill typically runs at. Of course, this is a personal choice; I've run my own tests with inserted carbide, brazed carbide, cobalt and HSS bars in a boring head so my advice is biased by my results.

If I was going to run carbide tooling, I would use a DBL-style head and use a counterbalance so I could run at higher speeds.


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## Ken from ontario (Feb 28, 2017)

The bottom line is ,that Borite brand doesn't seem to be anything special, I thought the name alone would justify the cost  but as David says I can get a set of 9 for about the same price but they are of the cheaper quality, as far as Carbide vs HSS/Cobalt goes ,I don't have any extensive personal experience with either one to even have a preference but I do try to void the cheaper cutting tools in general, and have read often that Carbide needs higher speed than HSS /cobalt.

I thank you both for giving me different angles of choosing boring bars,obviously there's no " perfect material for cutting edge" you still sacrifice something to gain something. right now my main objective is to be able to bore holes(with my Criterion S-2" boring head) smaller than 1/2" in Aluminum  and sometimes in mild steel, based on both your comment I figured A=the deal with that set I posted wasn't that hot . B=now that my quest continues,why not go for cobalt BBs of the opportunity presents itself although if I find a good quality set that happened to be Carbide, with round shanks, it's not the end of the world, I'll get it and deal with the quality of the cut later.

Edit, I just found out Borite sells both HSS and Carbide boring bars:
http://www.boritemanufacturing.com/hi-speed_tools
http://www.boritemanufacturing.com/our_products


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## mcostello (Feb 28, 2017)

+1 for what Chipper said, My experience is the same.


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## Ken from ontario (Feb 28, 2017)

I just ordered a new BORITE  Cobalt boring bar, 1/2" (ROUND) shank 3.25" long, 3/8" minimum bore diameter,  That's exactly what I was looking for, and we'll see how it performs.
Thank you all for your comments.
BTW, The Carbide of the same tool was only $10 cheaper, for my peace of mind and hobby use the one I bought seemed the most logical choice, and I got the round shank  knowing now that it won't matter if it didn't have a flat edge, I'll take care of that if I need to.


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## mikey (Feb 28, 2017)

Borite makes the best solid cobalt bars, in my opinion. It takes just a few seconds to sharpen them and they hold an edge well. However, there are cheaper sets - here is an M42 8% cobalt set for less than $30.00 but I can't attest to the quality: http://www.carbideanddiamondtooling.com/BoringHeadBoringBarsCobaltCarbideTipped

The best solid carbide boring bars I've used come from Micro 100. Many of them have a flat on the shank, which makes orienting them properly a snap. They sharpen easily with a diamond stone and, unlike cheap bars, don't break or distort when I drop them on the floor of my shop. They are expensive and I only use them for boring high carbon steels or stainless but they cut like a cobalt bar at speeds I can achieve, and they can go deeper than a steel bar can.

Ken, whichever bar you choose to use, be sure the bar is oriented correctly in the head. The flat on top of the tip of the cutter must align with the axis of the boring head's lead screw so that the depth of cut you dial in is accurate. The flat sides of an S-type head makes this easy to do.
http://www.carbideanddiamondtooling.com/BoringHeadBoringBarsCobaltCarbideTipped


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## Doubleeboy (Feb 28, 2017)

I have used my Borite brand carbide insert type boring bars at very slow speed, get excellent results,  every bit as good as the work I can do with finely honed HSS.  I have a wide variety of boring bars for inserts, the carbide shafted ones from Circle are my best but a set of 5 of em from tiny on up will cost you north of $500.  If I needed one small bar to do a variety of jobs within its limits I would do as Mikey and use Micro 100.  I have half dozen little ity bity ones that I have made holders for to do < .300" bores.  They are the cats pajamas.  Like most everything Micro sells they are not cheap but I love them for real tiny work.  For larger work I like inserts.  Speaking of carbide and Micro, their brazed carbide lathe tools will make you forget the sad experiences you might have had with Chinese brazed carbide tools, very sharp right out of box, sharpened with plenty of relief and can handle interrupted cuts with out fracturing.  Like all carbide I have dealt with though you need to decide if you are going to cut dry, use mist or flood, intermittent dribbling of oil or coolant is an invitation to cracking.


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## Ken from ontario (Feb 28, 2017)

Many thanks to each and everyone of you for your comments,I learned something from your comments, as I mentioned I don't have much experience with boring  with a milling machine, (did some production work on a lathe years ago) and never owned a boring head/bars before  but one thing I did promise myself when I started accumulating tools for this hobby and that was/is to buy better than average quality cutting tools from the get go, based on Mike and Doubleeboy's positive reviews,  the two boring bars (Mesa tool/Borite) sounds like to be two good purchases but I still would like to try the import carbide set that are like 9 per set just to have around but also to see for myself what the difference is in their performance.


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## Doubleeboy (Feb 28, 2017)

Ken, I can almost guarantee you that the import cheap boring bars no matter if they are HSS or brazed carbide will need profiling and sharpening.  If you are comfortable with that , no problem, if sharpening is a challenge for you, you would be happier with inserts or the Micro 100 preformed and sharpened bars.  As long as you don't nick one the them up you should be able to touch it up with diamond  hand held hone.


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## Ken from ontario (Feb 28, 2017)

Doubleeboy said:


> Ken, I can almost guarantee you that the import cheap boring bars no matter if they are HSS or brazed carbide will need profiling and sharpening.  If you are comfortable with that , no problem, if sharpening is a challenge for you, you would be happier with inserts or the Micro 100 preformed and sharpened bars.  As long as you don't nick one the them up you should be able to touch it up with diamond  hand held hone.


Well, I sharpen my own drill bits ,have been doing that for years (and my woodworking planes, chisels.etc.). I do understand the rake angle and in general ,the cutting tool geometry but I have never sharpened anything  like a boring bar or fly cutter but I think I can manage without too much difficulty. however, I'm already in love with inserts/indexable cutting tools,let me find out more about Micro 100 bars ,you and Mike got me curious.


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## pstemari (Mar 2, 2017)

If you like insert boring bars Maritool makes some nice ones, both in steel and carbide. I have the steel ones and they do a great job. I can go down under 1/2" diameter with them.

Note: the bushings in the photo are shop-made.




Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Ken from ontario (Mar 2, 2017)

pstemari said:


> If you like insert boring bars Maritool makes some nice ones, both in steel and carbide. I have the steel ones and they do a great job. I can go down under 1/2" diameter with them.
> 
> Note: the bushings in the photo are shop-made.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link ,great job on the shop made bushings ,they look well built.
I have read a few praises on the quality of Maritool  cutting tools before, I would get the 1/4" bar if they sold the bushings for it ,unfortunately I don't have a lathe to make the reducers myself but I think I have router bit bushing that might work.just thinking outloud.


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## mikey (Mar 2, 2017)

Ken, my friend, you have revealed a stunning deficiency - NO LATHE - say it ain't so! This is on the order of Lennon without McCartney or Skywalker without Yoda ... being lathe-less is just not going to work! Better to be mill-less than lathe-less. We, the entire HM community, are now sending vibes to Canada to entice a lathe to find you so that you can become whole ... AMEN!!


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## Ken from ontario (Mar 2, 2017)

mikey said:


> Ken, my friend, you have revealed a stunning deficiency - NO LATHE - say it ain't so! This is on the order of Lennon without McCartney or Skywalker without Yoda ... being lathe-less is just not going to work! Better to be mill-less than lathe-less. We, the entire HM community, are now sending vibes to Canada to entice a lathe to find you so that you can become whole ... AMEN!!


Amen to that,don't forget I'm left handed, we do things bass ackward.
You can imagine how often I've hit the wall and grind to a halt on almost every project I've started.
I am planing on getting rid of some of my woodworking tools to open up some space for a small Southbend lathe.


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## Alan H. (Mar 30, 2017)

Ken, late reply cause I just read this!  Never, ever get rid of tools.  Stack em up, take a car out of the garage, rent a storage building, . . . .
But never give up a tool.  

Just kidding cause I have the same problem now.  Move a new one in and an old one out.


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## Ken from ontario (Mar 30, 2017)

Alan H said:


> Ken, late reply cause I just read this!  Never, ever get rid of tools.  Stack em up, take a car out of the garage, rent a storage building, . . . .
> But never give up a tool.
> 
> Just kidding cause I have the same problem now.  Move a new one in and an old one out.


I'm thinking of getting a pre-fab storage shed for the tools .


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## darkzero (Mar 31, 2017)

Ken from ontario said:


> unfortunately I don't have a lathe



We all know that will change but in the mean time you could always use the mill to machine like a lathe. It's about as limited as it is milling on a lathe (possibly more) but it can be done & people do it.


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## Tozguy (Mar 31, 2017)

Ken from ontario said:


> Amen to that,don't forget I'm left handed, we do things bass ackward.
> You can imagine how often I've hit the wall and grind to a halt on almost every project I've started.
> I am planing on getting rid of some of my woodworking tools to open up some space for a small Southbend lathe.



Ken this is an emergency, you need a lathe, a whole new level of living awaits.


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## Doubleeboy (Mar 31, 2017)

When my very nice Monarch 10ee took an electrical dump on my shoe, I knew it would be a while till I got it back up to snuff.  To get my fix of watching metal go round and round I bought a used Harbor Freight mini lathe.  They are what they are, so no need to rehash its virtues and weaknesses but it let me make things and it was such a far cry from what a working 10ee is it encouraged me to get off my butt and figure out what was wrong with it and fix.  Fifteen years later I still have the mini lathe, use it occasionally for polishing or turning cast iron.  Could probably sell it for what I paid for it but no need to.  Get a small beater to play with till your dream lathe comes around, mans got to have a lathe or 3.


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## Ken from ontario (Mar 31, 2017)

darkzero said:


> We all know that will change but in the mean time you could always use the mill to machine like a lathe. It's about as limited as it is milling on a lathe (possibly more) but it can be done & people do it.


As a matter of fact I have been exploring all the possibilities ,(of using my mill like a lathe) ,just got a 3" rotary table and mounted a 3" chuck on it but I find centering the RT/chuck a bit time consuming although once done, it does open up  a whole new alternative options.



Tozguy said:


> Ken this is an emergency, you need a lathe, a whole new level of living awaits.


So true.it is an emergency.
 I'm convinced I need a lathe but I'm torn between two choices , A= get a new lathe (small) most likely Chinese /import and not  deal with worn out parts,ways,bent  spindle/lead screw etc, or B= muster up some patience and  look for a used but US made one.
I'm seriously leaning toward option A, have been looking at Little Machine Shop LMS #5100 (7 x 16 mini lathe).that size will fit perfectly in my shop and seems to be a very capable lathe.


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