# Ideas to Retain this Bolt



## tonydi (Mar 5, 2021)

I'm sure everyone is familiar with this assembly from a screwless/toolmaker vise.  The vise I have has the ability to open the jaws wider than many other versions.  I ended up using a longer SHCS than what comes with it and that's helped but I run into a different problem.

Because of the "technique" required to find the correct notch when tightening the vise, when I mount larger work pieces I often back the fastener out to the point where it falls out of the pin holder.  It's a real PITA to get it back together.

So I'm trying to come up with some sort of retaining arrangement that allows me to get the full range of adjustment without it coming apart but nothing I've thought of seems workable.

Suggestions?


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## nnam (Mar 6, 2021)

Maybe there is some more room that you can extend the screw tube (female) or the screw


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## Tim9 (Mar 6, 2021)

I saw a toolmaker vise just the other day on EBay. The solution of whoever owned said vise was to make a much longer pin with a knurled knob on the end. Not perfect because it could get in the way when the vise is laying on its side. But not that much of a big deal. Anyway the pin would seem to solve the problem in my opinion. I actually paid attention to it because I’m going to do that to mine. I find the little pin to be PITA.


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## hman (Mar 6, 2021)

I'd suggest replacing the SHCS with a length of threaded rod, possibly retained in the crossbar with some blue Loctite or with a jam nut.  Then use another nut on the end of the threaded rod for tightening the vise.  Having the threaded rod in the crossbar at all times gives you a nice "handle" to use when trying to find that next notch ... especially if you make the rod a bit longer than absolutely necessary.

Post #22 at https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/mill-vise-opinions.37171/page-3#post-319154 illustrates how I did this with an almost similar vise.


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## tonydi (Mar 6, 2021)

nnam said:


> Maybe there is some more room that you can extend the screw tube (female) or the screw



   Don't raise the bridge, lower the water, eh?  ;-)   The end of the pin assembly gets really close to the underside of the moveable jaw.  I'll have to see exactly how close; if there's enough room to make a longer assembly with enough extra threads to get me a full range of adjustment that might do the trick.



Tim9 said:


> I saw a toolmaker vise just the other day on EBay. The solution of whoever owned said vise was to make a much longer pin with a knurled knob on the end. Not perfect because it could get in the way when the vise is laying on its side. But not that much of a big deal. Anyway the pin would seem to solve the problem in my opinion. I actually paid attention to it because I’m going to do that to mine. I find the little pin to be PITA.



  So you're talking about making a cross-pin that you can just pull out, slide the jaw and plug back in?   This particular vise uses a slot down the side for hold down clamps and said clamps cover a good number of positions (5 of the 8), right in the middle of the range.  I really like this idea and it might work great if I had a wide enough mill table that I could clamp down the ends rather than the sides.



hman said:


> I'd suggest replacing the SHCS with a length of threaded rod, possibly retained in the crossbar with some blue Loctite or with a jam nut.  Then use another nut on the end of the threaded rod for tightening the vise.  Having the threaded rod in the crossbar at all times gives you a nice "handle" to use when trying to find that next notch ... especially if you make the rod a bit longer than absolutely necessary.
> 
> Post #22 at https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/mill-vise-opinions.37171/page-3#post-319154 illustrates how I did this with an almost similar vise.



        But then what would I do with my cool blue 6mm t-handle wrench that I've dedicated to this job and works so great as a handle too?  ;-)  Thanks for the link, John.  This does look like the best solution for my particular situation.  


*And to take my own thread off topic*, I noticed when I removed the vise to take a better look at the assembly that I had some rusty areas on the table and corresponding areas on the underside of the vise.  As others had suggested, I had put a piece of paper down on the table to help keep this very smoothly ground surface from sliding around under load.  

       This is Northern California and things don't rust here.  Could the paper have been the problem, helping to absorb and retain the little humidity we do have or is this just a fact of life with these vises?


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## brino (Mar 7, 2021)

Are you running any water-based coolant?

-brino


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## tonydi (Mar 7, 2021)

No coolant system on my mini-mill.  I mostly do aluminum so an occassional bit of WD40 is the only liquid that gets used.


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## tonydi (Mar 13, 2021)

I ended up taking the suggestion made by @nnam.  I made a whole new clevis or whatever it's called, not only to give it a longer thread but also that allowed me to make it fit the slot tighter.  The stock one wobbles around and probably contributes to some of the problems we all run into when trying to find the right position.


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## tonydi (Mar 16, 2021)

I was looking at this picture and noticed the grooves in the pin in the upper piece.  Those must have been created when I wasn't in one of the slots, but rather in-between slots and I tightened the screw.  I know the pin isn't hardened because I was able to file a small flat on the new one for the set screw.

Would I be better served to harden the new pin or is there an advantage to leaving it alone?  If I should harden, what do I need to do, exactly?  I don't know what type of steel it is and I guess that makes a difference in technique used.


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## T Bredehoft (Mar 16, 2021)

Don't bother hardening the pin. It would  add no advantage. This way you've got a "softer" element, replaceable if needed.


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## tonydi (Mar 17, 2021)

Thanks, Tom, I'll take your advise on that.

Finally got a chance to put the vise back together today.  I also made a thin aluminum plate to go down into the cavity of the vise and sit on the table.  Combining that with the larger clevis piece I made I can now back off the bolt just slightly to drop the pin out of the current slot and slide the moveable jaw easily throughout the entire range of the vise.  Previously as soon as the pin dropped down it was a game to find the right amount to loosen the bolt and adjust the angle to let it move.  This mod made the vise almost as quick to use as a conventional milling vise!


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## T Bredehoft (Mar 17, 2021)

In my apprenticeship I made a small vice, all hardened and ground (and "jeweled") with an Acme screw all single pointed for bench work. Recently I purchased one of these'"quick acting" vices. I can't get the hang of it. My self-designed vice and the other sit side by side, one gets used, the other looks impressive.


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## tonydi (Mar 17, 2021)

I hear ya, it's definitely a technique that takes some getting used to (along with some appropriate four letter words each time you think you have it and just as it seems tight it slips out of the slot you were in or it unscrews!).

In "stock" condition I would loosen the SHCS and use the allen wrench as a lever to pull upwards, towards the spindle, so the clevis (what is that thing properly called, anyway?) dropped down.  Often times you'd need to even unscrew the thing even more to be able to get the movable jaw released.  Depending on where you had the jaw to begin with, that's when I'd sometimes run out of threads and they'd become disconnected. Then to get the pin up in the right slot for the new jaw position and be able to tighten it, I'd pull down on the allen wrench to get the pin as far forward as possible for the right angle.

Now with the new piece and the bottom plate I can just put a little bit of downward pressure on the SHCS and I can hear the pin "clicking" as it finds the next slot and the jaw moves without all those shenanigans.


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