# Arbor Press, how big a press is needed for...



## WobblyHand (Jun 9, 2022)

I have a little project for which having an arbor press would be useful.  I need to press in some steel pins into aluminum.  1/4" pins into 0.001" undersized holes.  From what I understand, bigger is always better (at least here on HM) but I also understand that arbor presses often end up taking valuable space and end up being a pain to tuck away.  I have a small and cramped shop as it is.  I could foresee pressing up to 1/2" pins.  Don't own broaches at this point.  This is not a paying job, so I can't write it off or otherwise amortize it.  I am retired, but too young to get my (full) SS just yet, so I am living off savings, which is a real life style crimp...  We get by, but I do have to watch the burn rate.

With that in mind, how should I size the arbor press?  I have no idea what is needed.  1T, 2T, 3T?  Cost is a constraint right now, can't ever see buying a nice Dake 3 Ton with ratcheting handle, not at retail prices.  For that matter, it would be hard for me to even lift it!  Locally not much has come up, as far as listings.  I see a lot of altered, missing pieces and screwed up arbors, but nothing approaching a clean specimen at prices I'd be willing to pay.  As for how much I'd pay, don't really know, I'd pay more to get more value.  

A 1 Ton is available at HF, so that represents the bottom end.  I'd have to travel to get it, as my local HF doesn't have it in stock.  And, well, it is HF, so it can be a crap shoot.  They claim the mechanical advantage is 20:1, so to get 1T of pressure, I'd have to apply 100 lbs of force on the dinky lever.  Seems like that would be hard to use.  But I have no idea how much force is needed to press in a pin, so I don't even know how to size the tonnage required.  Can someone help me understand what is needed?


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## woodchucker (Jun 9, 2022)

For what you want to do, you can just make a clamping plate using bolts, and use the bolts to clamp down.  I broke a vise (USA made) once over doing it. So I don't recommend that. A vise is not a press. If you are doing light duty stuff, your drill press will work. I would not use my mill...


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## mmcmdl (Jun 9, 2022)

I may " possibly" be getting 2 and 3 ton presses in the near future if things go right . A 3 ton would be great if you could get one . No issues with broaching .


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## WobblyHand (Jun 9, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> I may " possibly" be getting 2 and 3 ton presses in the near future if things go right . A 3 ton would be great if you could get one . No issues with broaching .


Well hurry up and get one .  Ratcheting is better .  Only problem with a 3T is the space it takes up while not in use.  I'd love a decent ratcheting 3T.  Beats me where I would put it though, but somehow motivation usually wins out.

Really don't have an idea what forces are required for my relatively modest needs.  Likely a 3T would have no problem.  Totally unknown to me if a 1T or 2T would work.


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## Aaron_W (Jun 9, 2022)

The current HF 1 ton arbor press is OK. I would have preferred a vintage press, but none were showing up for a reasonable price when I needed one. I've got no complaints, it was fairly inexpensive and does the job for me. I understand it is much better than the old press that they sold.

The size difference between a 1 ton and 3 ton is quite large.


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## mmcmdl (Jun 9, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Well hurry up and get one


Financial woes here also .


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## WobblyHand (Jun 9, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> For what you want to do, you can just make a clamping plate using bolts, and use the bolts to clamp down.  I broke a vise (USA made) once over doing it. So I don't recommend that. A vise is not a press. If you are doing light duty stuff, your drill press will work. I would not use my mill...


Definitely not using a bench vise!  BTDT.  Broke the cast iron nut.  Nut was NA.  Tossed the vise.  Tough lesson.  

That lesson came about from an attempt pressing an 8mm pin into some cast iron.  Finally went to a machine shop and the guy pressed it in without any problem.  Of course, it might have been due to the fact he had a really big arbor press there.  The press itself was about 7 feet high. The lever was even longer.  Guy was nice to me, and pressed that pin for free.

I have no feeling for what forces are required to make the press fit.  Therefore don't know how to size the arbor press.

Won't use my mill as a press.  My drill press is a POS, so not much help there.  I do have a surplus milling vise with excess jaw lift, I could try.  A PM vise that I ordered with my mill.  Couldn't quite correct the lift, even after machining the nut.  Moved on an got a Kurt.  The Kurt is much nicer, and _WILL NOT use it as a press_.


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## WobblyHand (Jun 9, 2022)

Aaron_W said:


> The current HF 1 ton arbor press is OK. I would have preferred a vintage press, but none were showing up for a reasonable price when I needed one. I've got no complaints, it was fairly inexpensive and does the job for me. I understand it is much better than the old press that they sold.
> 
> The size difference between a 1 ton and 3 ton is quite large.


Good to know.  HF doesn't carry a 2T anymore, only a 1T.  Have no idea if it is capable enough for the job.  Personally, I find it difficult to apply 100 lbs of force on a short handle.  When I was younger, maybe.  You are right, a 3T is pretty darn big and usually very heavy.  

I'd like to get a press that is capable of pressing 1/2" pins, but would be ok with 3/8"/8mm pin pressing.  Would be nice to be able to try before considering a buy on the 1T press, maybe it is good enough.


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## woodchucker (Jun 9, 2022)

I built my own benchtop hydraulic press years ago. It's been awesome. I am considering a new build for broaching, where the ram is inverted and stable.

I also find the press invaluable. I use it way more than I thought I would.


https://imgur.com/a/KXoRC


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## Todd3138 (Jun 9, 2022)

For what it's worth, I just did a quick check on facebook marketplace for Greenerd Arbor Press (I had been looking at a nice ratcheting version a guy in NJ was selling but decided I don't need one.  It's not listed anymore so he must have sold) and while that particular brand doesn't have a lot for sale there at the moment, there are a handful of 1 to 3 ton (and one 40 ton Greenerd!) available.  Filtering by "ships to you" to save you on travel scales the options back quite a bit but there are still a handful of nice looking name brand presses out there in case you don't decide to settle on the HF model.  I like HF for a lot of different things but don't have any experience with their arbor press.  They have committed to improving their quality it seems over the past several years and I have a lot of their hand tools that are beautifully produced (in Taiwan, not china) and have stood up to everything I've used them for in my shop.  I know they aren't everyone's cup of tea and that's cool, but they've been great for me.  That said, I do love longstanding, tried and true brands as well and buy those when I need.  Good luck with your decision!


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## C-Bag (Jun 9, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> I have a little project for which having an arbor press would be useful.  I need to press in some steel pins into aluminum.  1/4" pins into 0.001" undersized holes.  From what I understand, bigger is always better (at least here on HM) but I also understand that arbor presses often end up taking valuable space and end up being a pain to tuck away.  I have a small and cramped shop as it is.  I could foresee pressing up to 1/2" pins.  Don't own broaches at this point.  This is not a paying job, so I can't write it off or otherwise amortize it.  I am retired, but too young to get my (full) SS just yet, so I am living off savings, which is a real life style crimp...  We get by, but I do have to watch the burn rate.
> 
> With that in mind, how should I size the arbor press?  I have no idea what is needed.  1T, 2T, 3T?  Cost is a constraint right now, can't ever see buying a nice Dake 3 Ton with ratcheting handle, not at retail prices.  For that matter, it would be hard for me to even lift it!  Locally not much has come up, as far as listings.  I see a lot of altered, missing pieces and screwed up arbors, but nothing approaching a clean specimen at prices I'd be willing to pay.  As for how much I'd pay, don't really know, I'd pay more to get more value.
> 
> A 1 Ton is available at HF, so that represents the bottom end.  I'd have to travel to get it, as my local HF doesn't have it in stock.  And, well, it is HF, so it can be a crap shoot.  They claim the mechanical advantage is 20:1, so to get 1T of pressure, I'd have to apply 100 lbs of force on the dinky lever.  Seems like that would be hard to use.  But I have no idea how much force is needed to press in a pin, so I don't even know how to size the tonnage required.  Can someone help me understand what is needed?


If you are just doing pins, bushings and bearings you could get away with the small bench HF hydraulic press. It’s small light and more than powerful for what you’re doing. And in the meanwhile you can keep an eye out for a stray arbor press. I did that for many years until I ran into an ancient Jet 2tn arbor press. While I wanted something like a 3tn or bigger for the extra stoke for doing 3/8”/8mm broaching it did fine for <5/16” broaching.

If you do go hydraulic please don’t try and do broaching with it. Unless you don’t mind launching HSS missiles around your shop. Arbor press is bad enough but hydraulic has no feedback to know if the broach is cocked and you won’t know until it shatters if it’s stuck.  

I know it’s sacrilege but I just don’t get the fixation on Grenard arbor presses. They have a round press shank so have no gibs for wear adjustment. I’ve also seen many with the casting broken out at one time another because of this where I’ve never seen a square shank with the head casting broken. Donning flame proof suit now……


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## WobblyHand (Jun 9, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> If you are just doing pins, bushings and bearings you could get away with the small bench HF hydraulic press. It’s small light and more than powerful for what you’re doing. And in the meanwhile you can keep an eye out for a stray arbor press. I did that for many years until I ran into an ancient Jet 2tn arbor press. While I wanted something like a 3tn or bigger for the extra stoke for doing 3/8”/8mm broaching it did fine for <5/16” broaching.
> 
> If you do go hydraulic please don’t try and do broaching with it. Unless you don’t mind launching HSS missiles around your shop. Arbor press is bad enough but hydraulic has no feedback to know if the broach is cocked and you won’t know until it shatters if it’s stuck.
> 
> I know it’s sacrilege but I just don’t get the fixation on Grenard arbor presses. They have a round press shank so have no gibs for wear adjustment. I’ve also seen many with the casting broken out at one time another because of this where I’ve never seen a square shank with the head casting broken. Donning flame proof suit now……


Don't have a fixation on a Greenerd, press, although it might be nice to bring one home.  Their factory started out in Nashua, and they still have a presence here.  Their #3BR would be nice, but I am just daydreaming...  

Hadn't considered a small hydraulic solution.  Could hack together a log splitter like setup to get by.  I will think about that.  Local HF has no small hydraulic presses right now, not even the little bench 6T one.


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## Todd3138 (Jun 9, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> I know it’s sacrilege but I just don’t get the fixation on Grenard arbor presses. They have a round press shank so have no gibs for wear adjustment. I’ve also seen many with the casting broken out at one time another because of this where I’ve never seen a square shank with the head casting broken. Donning flame proof suit now……


 No sacrilege in my view!  I know they are nice presses and generally desirable, but I have very little reason to want an arbor press at all in my shop.  I've got one of the little 1/2 or 1 tons I picked up for like $7 at an auction and have never used it but it's there if I ever need it.  I honestly thought about using it to press snaps and rivets in place when making a sheath or such out of kydex.  Still haven't after maybe 2 years!  Love the flameproof suit quip!


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## mikey (Jun 9, 2022)

Unless you plan or need to do a lot of broaching or bearing installs, I think a small hydraulic press is more useful in a hobby shop than an arbor press is. I have a 1 ton arbor press and its useful for small jobs. It would work for those 1/4" pins, I think.

I also have a nice 10 ton Dake hydraulic press that sits on top of a Craftsman rolling tool chest. It is perfect for my hobby shop and has done all I've asked of it. You might consider this as an option.


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## C-Bag (Jun 9, 2022)

the remark about Greenerd wasn’t about you guys, it’s kinda general. It was the name most mentioned when I first started looking into getting an arbor press. That’s why I looked at so many and noted the obvious and often crappy repairs of the heads. That’s when I realized they don’t have adjustment gibs and being round I guess they couldn’t. It was then I decided I wasn’t going to go that direction.

As with everything the kind of work you do will favor different kinds of tools. I had basically given up on ever finding a useful arbor press for a price I could afford when that old Jet 2tn(made in Japan!) came up local for $35. I knew I had to go get it. And it has turned into something I can’t live without. Besides pressing bushing,bearings, broaching etc I used it to precision straighten a little stroke adjustment shaft on my old shaper. Saved me some $$. Made a blade for making small bends in sheetmetal and wire. The same blade came in handy for straightening out and de warping sheetmetal after putting beads in it. Right now I’m adapting a 3” sheetmetal notcher to work on it. So even though I found a big 22tn antique screw press I can’t let go of the Jet, it’s just too handy.


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## WobblyHand (Jun 9, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> the remark about Greenerd wasn’t about you guys, it’s kinda general. It was the name most mentioned when I first started looking into getting an arbor press. That’s why I looked at so many and noted the obvious and often crappy repairs of the heads. That’s when I realized they don’t have adjustment gibs and being round I guess they couldn’t. It was then I decided I wasn’t going to go that direction.
> 
> As with everything the kind of work you do will favor different kinds of tools. I had basically given up on ever finding a useful arbor press for a price I could afford when that old Jet 2tn(made in Japan!) came up local for $35. I knew I had to go get it. And it has turned into something I can’t live without. Besides pressing bushing,bearings, broaching etc I used it to precision straighten a little stroke adjustment shaft on my old shaper. Saved me some $$. Made a blade for making small bends in sheetmetal and wire. The same blade came in handy for straightening out and de warping sheetmetal after putting beads in it. Right now I’m adapting a 3” sheetmetal notcher to work on it. So even though I found a big 22tn antique screw press I can’t let go of the Jet, it’s just too handy.


Didn't think your comment was directed at any of us.  Some people are into brands and stuff.  Generally those brands are better.  But for someone like me, at least at the moment, they are out of reach.  Been looking for a solution to this kind of thing for a while.  I'll have to be patient and some day one will become available to me.

I like the idea of a hydraulic press for some of my use.  Don't think I have the right stock in my garage to just weld scraps up, but I think I can get my hands on a bottle jack and a visit to a steel drops place might work out ok.  If course if I find a premade solution for not much, I wouldn't turn it away either.


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## C-Bag (Jun 9, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Didn't think your comment was directed at any of us.  Some people are into brands and stuff.  Generally those brands are better.  But for someone like me, at least at the moment, they are out of reach.  Been looking for a solution to this kind of thing for a while.  I'll have to be patient and some day one will become available to me.
> 
> I like the idea of a hydraulic press for some of my use.  Don't think I have the right stock in my garage to just weld scraps up, but I think I can get my hands on a bottle jack and a visit to a steel drops place might work out ok.  If course if I find a premade solution for not much, I wouldn't turn it away either.


It’s too bad we are at opposite ends of continent because I have a 12tn HF press hanging on my wall I’ve tried to give away. It would make a great donor for a benchtop press.


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## projectnut (Jun 9, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> I may " possibly" be getting 2 and 3 ton presses in the near future if things go right . *A 3 ton would be great if you could get one . No issues with broaching .*


I would whole heartedly agree.  I've had a Greenerd 3B over 20 years and use it on a regular basis.  When I first "purchased" it I didn't have broaches, and mainly used it for pressing bushings and pins.  A few years ago I purchased a set of broaches so now it gets used even more.

They can often be found on Craigslist and Facebook Market for more than reasonable prices.  Mine came from a machine shop that closed down.  It was purchased by a friend who thought he would have a use for it, but it sat in his garage foe a little over a year before he decided to let it go.  He traded it to me for a 20 year old Toro lawnmower.

Here's a picture of the press:


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## Firebrick43 (Jun 9, 2022)

mikey said:


> Unless you plan or need to do a lot of broaching or bearing installs, I think a small hydraulic press is more useful in a hobby shop than an arbor press is. I have a 1 ton arbor press and its useful for small jobs. It would work for those 1/4" pins, I think.
> 
> I also have a nice 10 ton Dake hydraulic press that sits on top of a Craftsman rolling tool chest. It is perfect for my hobby shop and has done all I've asked of it. You might consider this as an option.


For broaching a hydraulic press is really bad.  No feel and is slow.   Even for pressing pins and bearing a lot of times an arbor press can do it in a fraction of the time compared to setting up a hydraulic press.  I have always had both available and the arbor press is an 8 ton Dake with quick adjust bed.  

May I suggest 




It is also in one of the HSM books, I don't remember is its ONE or TWO but I will look


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## sdelivery (Jun 9, 2022)

All the used arbor presses I see have the ram smashed at the top from being beaten on.
I own a 1 ton arbor press but rarely use it.  The H frame hydraulic press is the go too.
I vote for a small bench top hydraulic press.
It will do more in the long run without having to build a base to keep from tipping over when you lean on the bar.


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## WobblyHand (Jun 9, 2022)

Firebrick43 said:


> For broaching a hydraulic press is really bad.  No feel and is slow.   Even for pressing pins and bearing a lot of times an arbor press can do it in a fraction of the time compared to setting up a hydraulic press.  I have always had both available and the arbor press is an 8 ton Dake with quick adjust bed.
> 
> May I suggest
> 
> ...


Haven't a single broach to use, so not being able to broach with a hydraulic  press isn't an issue.  Just looking for a solution at an affordable cost now.


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## C-Bag (Jun 9, 2022)

It is interesting to watch Fireball’s vid. I loved to read and look at the articles in the old Popular Mechanics and always wondered about the home made tools in there. The vid shows the press to be a mixed project.


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## Winegrower (Jun 9, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> If you do go hydraulic please don’t try and do broaching with it. Unless you don’t mind launching HSS missiles around your shop. Arbor press is bad enough but hydraulic has no feedback to know if the broach is cocked and you won’t know until it shatters if it’s stuck.


So much negativity about broaching with a hydraulic press.   This is somewhat nonsense, in my opinion.   I have a small 1T arbor press that is pathetically limited in height, and an HF 20T hydraulic press, which isn't, that I've used to broach maybe 50 keyways of various sizes and to press on/off gears and bearings on fairly long shafts.    Of course, one could be a klutz and mess up broaching with either tool, but it's not much of a challenge to broach with the HF press, since you can control pressure very precisely with the handle, and for speed I've added an air/hydraulic cylinder.

Now if you had an arbor press like the one at H&W Machine Repair, yes, use that.   Wish I did.


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## Firebrick43 (Jun 10, 2022)

Winegrower said:


> So much negativity about broaching with a hydraulic press.   This is somewhat nonsense, in my opinion.   I have a small 1T arbor press that is pathetically limited in height, and an HF 20T hydraulic press, which isn't, that I've used to broach maybe 50 keyways of various sizes and to press on/off gears and bearings on fairly long shafts.    Of course, one could be a klutz and mess up broaching with either tool, but it's not much of a challenge to broach with the HF press, since you can control pressure very precisely with the handle, and for speed I've added an air/hydraulic cylinder.
> 
> Now if you had an arbor press like the one at H&W Machine Repair, yes, use that.   Wish I did.


Its because many have been hurt broaching in a hydraulic press.  In semi production its always an arbor press.  In production they pull broaches with hydraulic rams instead of push.  The shops I have worked in using a hydraulic press will get you fired after your first warning.


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## Winegrower (Jun 10, 2022)

This concept also applies to machining, broaching, table saws, running with scissors, etc.


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## projectnut (Jun 10, 2022)

Firebrick43 said:


> Its because many have been hurt broaching in a hydraulic press.  In semi production its always an arbor press.  In production they pull broaches with hydraulic rams instead of push.  The shops I have worked in using a hydraulic press will get you fired after your first warning.


Again, I would have to agree.  The use of a push style hydraulic press for broaching was strictly prohibited at the company I worked for.  I think it was as much for the cost of replacing broaches as it was for the safety of the individual.  In our case all the shops had compound leverage ratcheting Model #3 presses capable of 12 tons of force.  These presses may be the norm for an industrial application, but likely out of budget range for the hobbyist.  The press alone is a bit over $5,000.00 then there's the stand and all the other accessories.

I can see a hydraulic press being used by a skilled individual, but it wouldn't be my first choice.  A quality arbor press can get the job done in 1/10th the time while giving feedback to the operator.  On the other hand, I would certainly give it a try for a one off as opposed the spending several hundred or several thousand dollars on a machine that might never be used again.


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## C-Bag (Jun 10, 2022)

Firebrick43 said:


> Its because many have been hurt broaching in a hydraulic press.  In semi production its always an arbor press.  In production they pull broaches with hydraulic rams instead of push.  The shops I have worked in using a hydraulic press will get you fired after your first warning.


We were making a bunch of belt conveyors and were making our own drums. The drum ends needed to be broached and I’d never done it before. The asst. manager set me up with the broach, oil and did the first one on the arbor press. The 20tn hydraulic press was back in the same area and I asked him why we didn’t use that? He said you could but don’t let anyone see you as they had a guy get hurt that way and if the manager saw you he’d fire you. Good enough for me.


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## Firebrick43 (Jun 10, 2022)

Winegrower said:


> View attachment 409714
> 
> 
> 
> This concept also applies to machining, broaching, table saws, running with scissors, etc.


Yep, exactly, broaching with a hydraulic press is like flying with only one magneto working.  You will get away with it for a while but one day it will bite you.

You will be the first one to the scene of the crash.


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## C-Bag (Jun 10, 2022)

Firebrick43 said:


> Yep, exactly, broaching with a hydraulic press is like flying with only one magneto working.  You will get away with it for a while but one day it will bite you.
> 
> You will be the first one to the scene of the crash.


Or IFR when only rated for VFR.


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## Winegrower (Jun 10, 2022)

Ok, I give up.


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## WobblyHand (Jun 10, 2022)

Winegrower said:


> Ok, I give up.


I wouldn't even bother to convince them otherwise.

However, as the OP, the level of thread drift has been interesting to watch spiraling away...


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## brino (Jun 11, 2022)

I don't have shop space or budget for two presses.
I believe the homemade hydraulic press is more useful than a 1-3 ton arbor press; larger capacity, longer work pieces, etc.
Sure the operator needs to understand the possible outcomes and be aware, but that goes for the lathe, the mill, the table saw, chain saw, and driving to work.

I certainly have broached with the hydraulic press. 
Just be aware and sometimes even stop, reposition and re-start.

Since I can only have one, it is the hydraulic press, and since I have it I use it..... carefully.

Brian


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## WobblyHand (Jun 11, 2022)

Thanks everyone for their opinions and suggestions.  Think I have a solution for the task at hand, or at least a fair try at it.  Let you guys know in 3-4 days.  Been an educational thread for me, and I value everyone's suggestions.  According to tracking, should have a solution by then...


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