# Problems with brand new 1440e-lb cross feed and taper attachment



## Negev (Aug 21, 2014)

I purchased this lathe brand new just recently and I'm having problems with the cross feed. It will not under any 
circumstances engage. I have tried pretty much everything under the sun to get it to work here are some pics and I'm 
Praying that maybe someone out there has had this same issue. In the first picture you can see the gear is worn a bit 
on the first 1/8th of an inch of the gear. That's were the big gear inside the carriage picture 2 is just bumping against it. The gear in the first picture 
measures 1.164 to 1.176 round if someone out there has put these taper attachment parts on a 1440e-lb and has had the same problems or if possibly 
someone can pull there cross feed dial out of there carriage and mic the gear for me to make sure its the right size I would be grateful beyond words because other then that I'm at a total 
loss. Thanks for any help that anyone can give me in advance... 






                                                                                                  Negev


----------



## zmotorsports (Aug 21, 2014)

Sorry you are having issues with our PM1440.  Have you tried getting in touch with Matt and getting his input/feedback?  I would be really surprised if he didn't make an attempt to address this.

As far as the gear, by looking at the first picture does the gear run idle in the machined groove and then engage into the splines by sliding outward into the splines?  If so, it looks like there may be some small burrs or sharp edges which may be causing the splines to not mesh.

Sorry I can't be much more help.

Mike.


----------



## Negev (Aug 21, 2014)

Yea i contacted Matt about it already hes going to contact the manufacture i just figured i would put it out here and maybe someone could help.
Buy looking on the inside of the carriage and inspecting everything theirs a lot of slop in the shaft. This isn't going to be an ez fix i think.  Thanks anyway for replying.


----------



## zmotorsports (Aug 21, 2014)

No problem.  Would you please post up your findings afterwards just in case someone else has a similar issue down the road?

Thank you.

Mike.


----------



## Negev (Aug 21, 2014)

o yea for sure


----------



## bvd1940 (Aug 21, 2014)

Negev said:


> o yea for sure



Have you checked the slip clutch ? My 1440 needed to be tightened up to get it working.


----------



## tmarks11 (Aug 21, 2014)

Negev said:


> I purchased this lathe brand new just recently and I'm having problems with the cross feed. It will not under any circumstances engage.



That does not provide enough description of the problem, and can be interpreted a number of ways:
1. Manual cross-feed hand wheel is stuck and won't turn
2. Manual cross-feed hand wheel turns freely and the cross-slide does not move
3. Feed selection lever for power cross-feed will not shift into the correct position
4. Feed selection lever for cross-feed can be pushed to the right position, but the power feed does not move the cross slide.

A few things:
1. It is tough to tell what the picture is, since you have zoomed in so much I can't tell what part of the lathe you disassembled.  Zoom out a bit on the next picture.  Not knowing which components you took the pictures of makes it hard to trouble shoot.

Negev said:


> In the first picture you can see the gear is worn a bit on the first 1/8th of an inch of the gear. That's were the big gear inside the carriage picture 2 is just bumping against it.


I don't think that is your problem at all.  It is supposed to look like that, the relief is cut into that gear on purpose, it is not "worn a bit".  I believe that is similar to Part Number 667 in the diagram below.  That gear engages the power feed drive gear when you shift the position of the power feed gear with the gear selector lever.​
2. I am guessing you took off the cross feed hand wheel? That makes me think that you can't move the cross slide with the hand wheel?  There is no "engaging the hand wheel"; it is always engaged.  Does the hand wheel turn freely with no cross slide motion? Or are you unable to turn the hand wheel at all?

3. Assuming the problem is not with manual feed but with power feed: Are you unable to push the feed selection lever down to engage cross feed (after sliding to the left)? Cross feed frequently won't engage because the gears aren't lined up.  In my experience, it won't engage maybe 1/3 of the time.  rotating the cross feed hand wheel slightly while pulling the engagement lever solves this problem. Longitudinal feed does the same thing (although doesn't seem to occur as often).



Negev said:


> Buy looking on the inside of the carriage and inspecting everything theirs a lot of slop in the shaft.


Your talking about the shaft in the picture poking out of the hole where your cross-slide hand wheel goes?  That is the forward end of the lead screw (Part Number 628V2 below).   

It has slop because you just took off the thrust bearing (Part Number 673 below) that supports the lead screw (it is housed in the fixture, PN 607V2, that you unbolted from the apron).  Without it in place, the shaft will be unconstrained and will be "sloppy".  With the thrust bearing off, the only thing supporting the leads crew is the leads crew nut bolted onto the cross slide (Part Number 636V2).  The picture below is a higher end lathe, and it has rear bearings supporting the leads crew, but I bet yours doesn't (my Grizzly 0709G 14x40 doesn't either).

This diagram is for general reference (it is NOT your lathe, but the same general arrangement is on your lathe):



Provide a bit more data, and we might be able to diagnose/fix your problem.  For reference purposes, here is a picture from the Grizzly G4003G manual.


----------



## Negev (Aug 21, 2014)

Imagine having this in your shop and not being able to use it. 
It's like Christmas without presents at 8 years old






1


----------



## tmarks11 (Aug 21, 2014)

Answer my questions, and we will get your problem solved in short order.

Which if these scenarios described your problem?1. Manual cross-feed hand wheel is stuck and won't turn
2. Manual cross-feed hand wheel turns freely and the cross-slide does not move
3. Feed selection lever for power cross-feed will not shift into the correct position
4. Feed selection lever for cross-feed can be pushed to the right position, but the power feed does not move the cross slide.
​
Once I know which problem to diagnose, I can help narrow it down.

Assuming your problem is #1, you might need to buy another lathe to fix your current one.  :thinking:  

If this is your problem, do me a favor and measure the thickness of the big drive gear inside the apron with a caliper or a micrometer, and than measure the width of the relief cut in that gear in the first picture.
The relief is there so the power feed won't engage the cross feed hand wheel shaft unless the feed selector lever is selected to cross-feed.
If the relief is not at least as wide as that big drive gear, than you will not be able to manually operate the cross slide. If the relief is not wide enough, than you could cut to relief widerwith a lathe (but of course your lathe won't work until this is fixed).
​With the cross slide hand wheel reinstalled, you should be able to manually slide that big drive gear in and out to engage either the longitudinal feed or cross feed.  Try sliding it manually in enough to allow the cross feed hand wheel to turn.
​
Please let me know what these measurements are.

btw, I have the Grizzly G0709G, which is very similar (different QCGB arrangement).


----------



## Negev (Aug 24, 2014)

Well here is what everyone has been waiting for a slight end to this nightmare
well on Friday i went out on my porch and behold Santa clause (UPS) dropped a
package on my porch. I open it up and Matt had sent me another lead screw and 
dial for my machine. In this picture its the back one. The one in the front is for the 
taper attachment.







Well the picture above will show you the exact way i received the new lead screw.
And what started this whole nightmare. Keep in mind that bearing at the end of the 
thread in this picture that's what screwed me all up. The next picture in the manual 
says a lot more then what you see here. 




Don't follow the manual its not even close. The manual calls for parts in the lead screw that don't 
even exist. part numbers 619 (cover) and 625 (screws) aren't even used.  And there are parts that 
I have that aren't even in this diagram that are on the lead screw in places they don't belong according to 
the manual. So here i am trying to figure this whole thing out going buy the diagram and I'm thinking its pointless. I'm 
missing parts and i have to many parts its driving me crazy so i went to bed and slept on it. Well this morning i had a eureka moment
so i went down to the machine and took another crack at it. Here's what i figured out. 

That bearing that i told you to keep in mind at the beginning of this nightmare didn't belong at the
end of the lead screw. It belongs in this picture below along with the spacer that the manual doesn't show.
And if you were paying attention to the picture in the beginning there were two bearings and the two of them
had different inside diameters. 



I'm sorry i didn't take a picture of the correct one but this is the dial portion 
of the taper attachment (below) its pretty much the same but you can see were the 
other bearing goes on this one the manual is actually right about this part.




So when i put this all together it worked like a champ but then i ran into a few more 
problems. Missing parts. Spring and ball for the dial. Well you say lets go over to the taper 
attachment dial and get those parts. 

Original dial for machine below




Taper attachment dial below




If you can get the spring and ball out of it without damaging the thing ill buy yea a beer.

Then i needed the key to be able to manually rotate the lead screw lets try the taper attachment parts again.
Below is a picture the bottom lead screw is the original for the machine notice how small the key way is. 




And below is a picture of the taper attachment dial and notice its key way way to large. 
So I'm out of options now. 




So on Monday i have to call Matt again and talk to him about getting these parts and figure out what to do about the taper attachment. 
I have had one more problem spring up on me as i was walking around the back of the machine i notice this!!!




I just hope this isn't going to be a problem child...


----------



## tmarks11 (Aug 24, 2014)

Negev said:


> The next picture in the manual says a lot more then what you see here.Don't follow the manual its not even close. The manual calls for parts in the lead screw that don't even exist. part numbers 619 (cover) and 625 (screws) aren't even used


ok, that is just sad.

The picture from your manual that you posted is the diagram from the grizzly G0709 manual (the lathe I have)... same picture, same part numbers, everything. Hope there isn't any plagerism going on here.... of parts of manuals for the wrong equipment.
 :nono: 

...yeah, I know, the same manufacturer probably builds both the 1440E, the G0709G, and the G750G. But Grizzly manuals are written in house in Bellingham, so it seems strange that their illustrations show up in a PM manual.  

Look at the grizzly manual for the G0750G. That appears to functionally be the same machine you have... and a quick look at the diagram for the cross slide shows the exact component you have in your pictures (for the non-taper attachment parts)

g0750g_m.pdf



Negev said:


> And below is a picture of the taper attachment dial and notice its key way way to large..


The normal setup (as NOT documented well in your manual) doesn't show how a taper attachment looks. You are trying to attach a taper attachment on your machine, correct?  

The taper attachment lead screw needs to have a long slot for the keyway, as the lead screw physically shifts under the pull of the taper attachment.  I would expect the keys not to be compatible (look at the length of the key PN #6, in the diagram below, it has to be long to maintain engagement as the taper moves the lead screw).  

Note: key stock is available everywhere, you can probably run out to the hardware store or local metal supply and buy some and cut your own.  No need to wait for fedex.

Here is a good place to look for reference, the product manual for the taper attachment for the Grizzly G0750G.  The diagram in it also almost exactly corresponds to the pictures you have shown. 

Note that it discusses what you have found out... that the taper attachment hand wheel is different than the normal hand wheel, so this is by design, not sloppiness. This is because it has to incorporate the stub shaft that allows for the lead screw to slide in and out of it, and also that the taper attachment is manufactured to fit on three different lathes, with minor swapping of parts.




http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/t26300_m.pdf

As I have said before, Grizzly does its homework and makes nice manuals... which serve as a nice reference library for people who buy similar equipment elsewhere. They also are a nice source of spare parts, as they warehouse a significant quantity in the US, where smaller importers frequently are unable to get specific parts for months.



Negev said:


> I have had one more problem spring up on me as i was walking around the back of the machine i notice this!!! I just hope this isn't going to be a problem child...



Just tap your lathe sharply with a newspaper.  It will quickly learn to go outside first.  
Not an uncommon problem with this model of lathe (regardless of who is selling it).


----------



## Negev (Aug 24, 2014)

Well well Mr. tmarks11 apparently you are a big fan of grizzley products. I have tried to be a nice person 
and ignore your first post but now you just went to far buy calling me a plagiarist Sure i had used grizzleys 
page from there manual online because it was convenient for me to cut and paste it. There is no difference 
in these pictures besides the number 6 and they changed a few of the part numbers. 
On the right my diagram from my lathe manual on the left grizzleys 0709. 




So for all who is to know in the land of the internet and 
this thread i do getting  down on one knee solemnly apologize to 
grizzley and to the number 6 that  i posted that picture 
out of haste and with no intent of any malicious act. 
Once again i am truly sorry. No further reply is necessary as
i bow my head in shame and banish myself from this thread.


----------



## tmarks11 (Aug 24, 2014)

Negev said:


> I have tried to be a nice person and ignore your first post but now you just went to far buy calling me a plagiarist Sure i had used grizzleys page from there manual online because it was convenient for me to cut and paste it.



sorry for the misunderstanding, I have no issues with you using Grizzly manuals (indeed, if you read my posts above, I have recommended using them like 3 or 4 times).

My comments were aimed at PM, and if PM was using pictures from Grizzly manuals (which I believe are written in Bellingham, WA, not at the factory), than that would be plagiarism.  Not your problem, it is theirs.  It is also sad that the PM manual has diagrams of someone else's machine (since it does't match yours).

Your use and posting is perfectly fine and above board.  Sorry for not being clear. Notice I posted 4 pictures from grizzly manuals myself.

Please re-read my posts, and don't ignore them.  I tried to give you some pretty clear advice on how to fix things and provide some recommendations.  I have no beef with PM machines (other than their manuals), and came close to buying one.. the only reason I didn't is that I have a Grizzly store a few hours from my house, which is pretty convenient, and decided that if I had issues with my lathe, it would be easier to resolve when I drive by their store 2 or 3 times a month when I travel on business.

*Again, I recommend you look at the link for the Grizzly taper manual, I think it shows all the parts and pieces you have.*

As for being a "big Grizzly fan", I wouldn't describe myself as such.  I have a Grizzly lathe, but I am not altogether happy with it.  It has some ( a lot!) rough edges, vibrates more than I would like, and is challenging to get a good finish on.  It is what it is: a cheap Chinese lathe dressed up with the word "gunsmith". I knew going into it that it was a severe compromise; the jury is still out on whether or not the compromise was worth it.  I still have some upgrades to do to see if it will do what I need it to do.


----------

