# A little logan buying advice?



## Bellwether

Hi, folks, I've been looking for a lathe for a little while and came across a 1946 Logan 200-1 is what I'm told it is. Asking price is $750 and I'm unclear on what or if it comes with anything.  Opinions


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## Terrywerm

The 200 series came as a 200 which is a floor model and the 210 which is a bench model. There were some other minor model differences which are indicated by your 200-1, which is a lever tailstock instead of a standard tailstock. It was designed for production work but can stillbe used for turning work between centers.

The model 200 does not have a gear box, but instead comes with a set of change gears for changing the speed of the lead screw, and thus to get different threads per inch or different feed rates. It does have a set of tumbler gears which will give you forward or reverse of the lead screw. The change gear set should be included with the lathe. If it is not, you can purchase individual gears on eBay, but that could get very expensive. At the price that the seller is asking, a full change gear set should be included. I will provide a list shortly of what gears should be included.

Condition of lathes can vary significantly, so it is difficult to determine a price or value without photos or a list of what is included. In order to obtain a complete machine, I would think that a 5" three jaw chuck should be included, as well as a 6" four jaw chuck. Obviously a lantern tool post and some basic tool holders should be included.

Other things that may be included but not always: Steady rest, follow rest, live center, dead centers, tailstock drill chuck, faceplate, and drive dogs.

This is just a basic list, hope it helps. To see some sales literature from 1944, go to this link: http://bridgeport.askmisterscience.com/loganlit.htm A photo of the lever tailstock is included there.


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## stevecmo

Terry pretty much nailed it.  

The difference between a Model 200 and a 200-1 was the 200 had a standard tail stock and the 200-1 had a lever tail stock.  Also, I don't believe either had the gears in the apron for power X and Y feed.

Steve


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## Bellwether

Thanks for the info, guys. It is very much appreciated! I'm waiting on a call from the seller to find out the particulars. It is a floor model with the cast iron legs and chip tray, and as far as I can tell from the picture, it was well used long ago based on the condition of the paint and the layer of dust that has accumulated on it. I would post a link to the CL ad, but I don't want anybody to swoop in and buy it out from under me.


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## Terrywerm

The lead screw will give you power cross feed as well as power longitudinal feed, using the half nut, but there is not a "geared" longitudinal feed in the apron like there is on most lathes today. Newer lathes also had a safety clutch in the gear train, but there is no such item in the gear train on a 200. If you crash the machine while threading or using power feed, you will most likely damage one or more of your change gears.

A full set of change gears will have the following tooth counts, and will have multiples of a couple sizes as a full set has 17 gears. I do not know which two were supplied as duplicates. I am fortunate in that I believe I have two full sets, and even have three and four each of a couple of the gears. 

16 - 18 - 24 - 32 - 36 - 40 - 44 - 46 - 48 - 52 - 54 - 56 - 60 - 64 - 72

The Logan 200 is a robust machine and is amazingly rigid for a 10" lathe. I really like mine, though I often wish that I had a quick change gear box instead of change gears. Quick change may be faster, but with change gears I can create some non-standard threads that are handy when cutting a helix. The standard threads that it can cut range from 4 to 64 threads per inch, and I have already done a helix that was at something like 1 thread in two inches. Why I did that is a long story that I won't go into here! 

One word of caution:  take a close look at the back gears in the headstock, as they are easily damaged. The back gears were a tad light for the amount of torque that the machine is capable of generating, and many of them have been damaged and repaired as a result. This is partially due to the fact that these lathes were originally supplied with 1/2 HP motors, which were a tad weak for some of the heavier work at higher speeds, so many of them were upgraded to 3/4 HP motors. Using back gear with a 3/4 HP motor creates way more torque than the gears can withstand, so extreme caution must be used under those conditions.

The only upgrade that I have done to mine was to fit a Phase II AXA quick change tool post to mine, which was a very worthwhile move. Mine also came with a rubber serpentine belt on it in place of the leather flat belt. So far this has worked well also. For anyone wanting to know, the belt is from NAPA auto parts, and is a "Micro-V AT"  25-080400.

If you purchase the lathe you are looking at, bring along plenty of muscle to move it. Logan 200's are deceptively heavy, weighing in around 500 lbs.

If you have any other questions, let me know. I will be more than happy to answer them.


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## stevecmo

terrywerm said:


> The lead screw will give you power cross feed as well as power longitudinal feed, using the half nut, but there is not a "geared" longitudinal feed in the apron like there is on most lathes today.



Terry,

Since you have a Logan 200 and I don't, you obviously know much more about it's operation than I do.  I was not aware that they have power cross feed.  Can you explain how this works using the half nut?  On my Logan there is a lever on the apron to engage either the X or Y power feed via a worm and gears, with neutral in the middle position.  I don't believe this lever exists on the 200 so I'm curious how it works.

Steve


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## Bellwether

Thanks so much, Terry. You appear to be a font of knowledge on this lathe. Most of what you said previously was pretty much over my head as I'm a woodworker and just getting into the metalworking and am hoping to incorporate the two. If I end up picking this one up I'll surely have lots more questions for you. Again, many thanks!


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## burnrider

Not a lever so much as a knob under the x-feed. Spot on information for the 200. I've had mine 40 plus years.


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## Terrywerm

Steve: Burnrider had it right, the 200 has two controls on the apron in addition to the handwheel: The push-pull knob for the power cross feed, which does use a gear arrangement in the apron to operate it; and the half nut lever, which is used for all longitudinal power feed, whether threading or just removing material. This system requires the availability of more change gear combinations
 than does a machine that uses a quick change gear box.

The 815 had both power cross feed and power longitudinal feed through a set of gears in the apron, plus feed for thread cutting was handled using the half nut. On a lathe having a quick change gear box, such as the 815, there are actually two rates of longitudinal feed for each setting of the change gears. One is a feed rate in inches per revolution (expressed in thousandths) used for cutting using the longitudinal feed, and the other is a feed rate in threads per inch, which is the result when using the half nut.

Bellwether, my apologies for letting things get carried away. I would like to recommend that you look through a copy of "How to run a lathe" from South Bend Lathe. You can get to a PDF of the entire book from 1914 here: http://books.google.com/books?id=sA...a=X&ei=0GJ7UbvvGcruqwGjrYDYDg&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAA  The basics are still the same now as they were back then, but you can safely ignore the section on setting up lineshafts. Reprints are available of newer versions on eBay and from a few other places as well. It will teach you all of the basics of lathe operation and you will find it to be invaluable. If you are interested in more general machining knowledge including drilling, lathes, shapers, and mills, I would suggest getting a copy of Machine Shop Practice Vol 1, and Machine Shop Practice Vol 2, both by Karl Hans Moltrecht. Here is what is covered in each, the following is from Enco's website:

Covers everything the apprentice or on-the-job professional needs to know about the intelligent and efficientoperation of machine tools.​*Vol I​*​​​​​​​​​496 pp. Contents: Basic Metalcutting; Basic Measuring; Layout Work; Drilling Machines, Twist Drills andTooling; Engine Lathe Construction; Single-Point Cutting Tools; Cylindrical Turning; Chucking Work; Taper andAngle Turning; Faceplate Work; Screw Threads and Measurements, Cutting Screws; Turret Lathes; ProductionLathes; Vertical Lathes; Precision Hole Location; The Jig Borer; and Metal Cutting Saws; Appendix; Index​*Vol II​*​​​​​​​​​517 pp. Contents: Shaper Construction and Shaper Work. Planers and Planer Work; Milling Cutters; Milling-Machine Operations; Indexing; Dividing Head Work; Surface Grinding; Cutter and Tool Grinding; Numerical​Controlled Machine Tools; Surface Plate Work; Appendix

Each book can be had for under $25 new if you look around a bit, even cheaper if you buy used. They are excellent resources for anything relating to metal working machines. They will not cover every possible detail of every machine, but they cover more than enough to get you going safely and properly. Additionally, you can always ask questions here in the forum.

Let us know if you end up with the lathe that you are considering, and feel free to post some photos. There's nothing to make a guy feel good like a good tool-gloat. Well, except maybe a cold adult beverage. "Self medicating" is allowed in this hobby, but only AFTER all of the machines are shut off for the day.


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## stevecmo

Terry,

Thanks for educating me on the 200.  I'm intimate with my 815 but never been inside a 200.  Thanks again!

Steve


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## Bellwether

Well, the deal on the 200 never happened, they just ignored my emails and never called me back (damn flakes)! But I found this 400 And figured that I'd better jump on it while I can. It appears to be well neglected. Somebody painted it, all of it, as you can see by the pictures. The ways look ok, a few nicks in them, but nothing major. All of the gears are in good shape, no teeth missing etc.... It has a 3 jaw chuck ans a 4 jaw chuck...somewhere...he said he'd send it to me when he finds it (holding breath now). It also has what looks to be all of the change gears, and a steady rest, and the tail stock. He has a bunch of stuff that he gave me; lots of measuring tools, gear pullers, little I-beam looking things with holes in them and various things, doodads, and whatchamacallits. I especially like the Brown & Sharp stainless steel square. What do y'all think? Opinions?


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## Terrywerm

It looks like that 400 is one of those with the plain apron, in other words, no power crossfeed, but it does have thread cutting capability.  It does indeed appear that it comes with a complete set of change gears, and the steady rest is a welcome addition as well as the dial test indicators, machinist square, inside micrometer set, faceplate, and other odds and ends. Sadly I do not see any drive dogs, dead centers, or a live center, but you can purchase those as you go for relatively little money. It is a bit smaller than the 200, as it only has a 9" swing, but it looks as though this one may have the longer bed, offering 28" between centers. The shorter version only offered 17" between centers.

I am no expert on the model 400, but Scott Logan still offers some parts for them, and also maintains the Logan lathe user group on Yahoo Groups. You can get to the Logan website here: http://www.lathe.com/  and the Yahoo group is here: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/lathe-list/

Hope you find this useful!


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## Dave Smith

Thanks Terry for all your info. on the logan 200. I also have had a logan 200 for approx 23 -25 yrs and really enjoy it. I'm still learning a lot more about it since I never had any machining training other than self training. I do have a couple of elderly friends who were machinists. You seemed to be right on with all your help on 200 buying advice. too bad he missed out on the 200. I would never give mine up. Dave
Bellwether--thanks for including pictures of your new lathe--now I know what a model 400 looks like, and from Terrys brief stats on it I know it is a 9" swing without power crossfeed.   Dave


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## Bellwether

Thanks, guys! This one is the short bed model, 17" between centers. Nope, no centers of any kind, live or dead. I was digging through a little box of stuff that came with it and found a couple of drive dogs. Can some one explain to me what they do. I know that they attach to the work next to the chuck, but I'm not sure what function they serve, why are they needed? Thanks in advance.


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## Terrywerm

Drive dogs?? Why, they drive you down to the local beer joint so you can live it up for a while, then drive you home again!!! Just kidding, obviously!!

Drive dogs are used when you are turning a piece between centers, so the set up would be as follows:
1. Center drill both ends of shaft to be turned.
2. Install faceplate on spindle
3. Install #3 morse taper dead center in spindle (or you could put in a #3 to #2 sleeve first, then place a #2 morse taper dead center inside of the sleeve). (Since this center is powered, it is sometimes called a "live center").
4. Install a #2 morse taper dead center or ball bearing dead center in the tailstock.
5. Place drive dog onto shaft to be turned, with bent leg pointing toward headstock. Dog can be left loose for now.
6. Place shaft between centers on the lathe, tighten the tailstock up to properly support the shaft
7. Position drive dog on shaft so that bent leg is sticking into slot in faceplate, then tighten the set screw so that dog is locked in place. Optionally, you can place a piece of leather or even brass sheet stock between the setscrew and the work piece.

I was going to set up a piece in my lathe for a quick photo, but realized that its faster just to go to Google images and do a quick search on "lathe drive dog" - you'll get plenty of examples.

ON EDIT: I have seen pics of setups where the work was mounted in a chuck, but a drive dog was also used with the bent leg resting against one of the chuck jaws. I have never done such a setup, and fail to see the need to ever use a drive dog with a chuck, but it is possible that I missed something long ago and someone else could enlighten us all. The only reason I can think of is to be sure that the work piece does not slip in the chuck jaws. My thought on that is simple: if you are taking a cut so heavy that the work can slip in the chuck, you are taking too heavy a cut!!


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## Bellwether

Theres no way my little dachshunds could even touch the pedals let alone see over the steering wheel....

Your explanation of the drive dogs makes all the sense in the world. I mentioned the drive dog/chuck working together because I searched on YouTube for it and it came up with someone using a drive dog up against the jaw of a chuck. Could it be for indexing purposes? If there was a need take the work out of the chuck it could be put in the exact same place as it was previously? Anyway, the way you explained it clears it up completely. Thanks for that! 

I'm taking next week off from work, so I'll be able to clean my grimy little 400 up and start painting it to bring it back to its former glory.


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