# Atlas milling machine refresh project



## VSAncona

Since there seems to be several people here with Atlas milling machines, I thought I'd start a thread with some photos of the "refresh" of mine. I bought this machine a year ago (Jan 2014). It came out of a university and was in pretty good condition. In fact, I probably could have just put it into use as it was. But I had to partially disassemble it to get it down into my basement by myself, so I figured I would take it all apart and degrease it and go through everything before using it. That was a year ago, and it's still in pieces. But I've started working on it again and I'm determined to get it operational this winter.

I've posted these pics before, but here is what she looked like when I first got her home:









Instead of taking everything apart all at once, I disassembled the machine into basic components and decided to work on a single component at a time. I started with the base and main column. There was a lot of dried-on oil and chips, but it came out pretty clean. The original paint is in pretty good shape, so I'm just going to clean the parts and put them back together:





I got as far as the knee last winter. In the meantime, I built a bench for it and have been rounding up some miscellaneous small parts that are missing or broken. Last week I started on the head/spindle assembly. I'll post some of photos of that later.

Vince


----------



## rafe

That looks pretty nice before you started "refreshing" it . I would have been more that happy with its shape however I'm just that way and I am always very impressed with restored machines and MC's I've done a couple of each, more refreshed than restored though...Thanks for the post


----------



## gregg

WOW!! Nice..


----------



## VSAncona

Here's a shot of all the main assemblies spread out:





And here it is with the knee back in place and mounted on a bench that I made. This is as far as I got last winter. I hope to make better progress this year!


----------



## ogberi

Very nice!   You'll enjoy using the mill.  And I saw on yours what the holes on the right side of the knee ways are for!  The gear rack for the lever operated knee elevation!  I never noticed that in my manual,because I don't have that option on my mill.  

I'm glad to see another MFC going together.  Great little machines!

Keep the pictures coming, too.


----------



## VSAncona

I made some more progress today. First, I got the saddle installed. One of the gibs was pretty badly bent on the end from overtightening the clamp, so I spent some time straightening it out and lapping it smooth. 





I checked the nut and lead screw for the table and they looked pretty good. The nut has been replaced at some point and the person who made the replacement even signed his work:





Next, I got the table put back in place:





I started disassembling the headstock and spindle and discovered that one of the bearings is pretty worn. So that will have to wait until I can get some replacement bearings. I did get all the parts disassembled and cleaned, however. Here are a couple shots of pressing out the bearing cups:









And then pressing off the bearing cone from the spindle:





Since I couldn't go any further without new bearings, I switched over to the inner guard. Here it is all cleaned up:





Then I started to tear into the table feed assembly. It was full of hardened grease. This assembly is made entirely out of zamak, so I'm a little nervous about working with it. One false move and it will be toast. I'm stopping here for the night and going to spend a little time studying this assembly before going any further.


----------



## 34_40

Great thread!  I'm pouring over every picture!! :wavinghi:

In the first 2 pics there appears to be an attachment point but I cannont figure out for what.  It's almost at the top looks like a hinge point but for what?

ANy idea what it's used for?


----------



## VSAncona

34_40 said:


> Great thread!  I'm pouring over every picture!! :wavinghi:
> 
> In the first 2 pics there appears to be an attachment point but I cannont figure out for what.  It's almost at the top looks like a hinge point but for what?
> 
> ANy idea what it's used for?




That's a mounting bracket for the coolant tank accessory. I'll try to remember to take a photo of it once I'm done reassembling that component.


----------



## 34_40

I later noticed the coolant tank and was wondering..  Mine doesn't have any of the guards or "nicities".. :veryscared:


----------



## VSAncona

Got a little bit more done today. I managed to get the table feed assembly all taken apart without breaking anything. The only gear I couldn't remove was the one on the sliding shaft. It looks like it's staked to the end of the shaft after it's assembled in the feed gear case and I didn't want to mess with that. So I spent a good hour digging out all the caked on grease from inside the gear case.





I'm using purple power to degrease the painted, cast iron parts and brake cleaner to clean the gears and unpainted parts. The brake cleaner eats through paint, so I also used it to clean the gear case, since it's the one part that I planned to repaint. The original paint was flaking off pretty badly. Here's a shot of all the parts of the table feed assembly, after cleaning. The only part that I haven't cleaned yet is the feed gear case cover because I'm going to use it to try and match the paint. I won't be able to reassemble everything until I get the gear case painted.





I also finished cleaning the parts for the spindle, back gear, and head assembly. Again though, I can't put anything back together until I get some new Timken bearings for the spindle. So I'm back to waiting for now.


----------



## ogberi

Since you just happen to have your headstock all apart, could you measure the eccentrics on the backgear shaft and post the meanurements?  I need to make a new pair, but was going to "wing it", due to missing measuruments & originals.


----------



## BGHansen

Very nice work!  Makes me feel like I should tear down my MFB and repaint it.  My MF1 power feed gear box case broke at the mounting flange to the knee.  Mine had the same dried up, caked on grease.  Soaking in lacquer thinner got it cleaned out.  My power feed engagement lever was really stiff which probably was the cause of the gear box breaking off in the first place.  I ground the peened area off the back of the sliding shaft, removed the ball/spring for the detent.  The spring got replaced with a much lower pressure spring which seems to do the trick.  Mine was missing the MF16 yoke so I made one out of aluminum.  I'll post some photos in a separate thread in a few.

Again, very nice work!


----------



## VSAncona

ogberi said:


> Since you just happen to have your headstock all apart, could you measure the eccentrics on the backgear shaft and post the meanurements?  I need to make a new pair, but was going to "wing it", due to missing measuruments & originals.



Sure, I can do that. What measurements do you need, specifically? The front eccentric is pretty complex, as it includes the lever and eccentric all as one piece.


----------



## ogberi

VSAncona said:


> Sure, I can do that. What measurements do you need, specifically? The front eccentric is pretty complex, as it includes the lever and eccentric all as one piece.



Od of the portion that fits in the headstock, ID of the backgear shaft, and offset of the backgear shaft from center.  That can be determined by measuring from the backgear shaft to the edge of the eccentric.  Knowing the diameter of the shaft and the eccentric itself gives the offset. 

Some pictures of the front eccentric that show the handle relationship to the eccentric offset position would be helpful.  I had intended to turn the front eccentric so that a shoulder stuck out the front, which would provide somewhere to mount a lever once I figured out how far it needed to rotate.  Then I determine where to place a spring-loaded pin in the front eccentric shoulder to engage the locking holes on the front of the headstock.   I won't be making a duplicate of the original, just a usable replacement. 

Thanks!  I appreciate it!


----------



## VSAncona

ogberi said:


> Od of the portion that fits in the headstock, ID of the backgear shaft, and offset of the backgear shaft from center.  That can be determined by measuring from the backgear shaft to the edge of the eccentric.  Knowing the diameter of the shaft and the eccentric itself gives the offset.
> 
> Some pictures of the front eccentric that show the handle relationship to the eccentric offset position would be helpful.  I had intended to turn the front eccentric so that a shoulder stuck out the front, which would provide somewhere to mount a lever once I figured out how far it needed to rotate.  Then I determine where to place a spring-loaded pin in the front eccentric shoulder to engage the locking holes on the front of the headstock.   I won't be making a duplicate of the original, just a usable replacement.
> 
> Thanks!  I appreciate it!



Okay -- The OD of the eccentric is .686". The shaft is 3/8" in dia. and as close as I can tell, it is offset 1/16" from the edge of the eccentric. Here are some photos of the front eccentric.


----------



## wa5cab

I can't vouch for the dimensions but I just uploaded a partial drawing of the front eccentric.  I also don't actually know whether it matches dimensions of M1-251 or M1-251B because I don't know how they differ and won't for another few weeks.

Robert D.


----------



## ogberi

Thank you both!   That's enough useful information for me to get started looking for a suitable piece of scrap.  

I'll print that drawing out and start figuring my sequence of operations.  

It looks like the eccentrics are pinned to the shaft, which would make sense as Atlas liked to pin everything on these machines.  3/8" shafting I have on-hand, and I'll dig in the junk box for a suitable piece of material to make the eccentrics from.  Pretty sure I have some in there somewhere. 

Seems that soon we'll have three nice Atlas horizontal mills up and running!


----------



## VSAncona

I noticed that somebody just uploaded a copy of the original Atlas blueprint drawing for this part on the Yahoo Atlas shaper and milling machine group site. It has all the dimensions you could want.


----------



## wa5cab

I had intended to look and see what drawing he had uploaded.  I converted the JPG to TIF, cleaned up the drawing, converted it to PDF and put in in our Downloads.  I also deleted the partial drawing that I uploaded yesterday.

Robert D.


----------



## VSAncona

I got some goodies in the mail this week and had a chance to install them. First, I got a couple of new cups for the Timken bearings. I'm still waiting for the cones, but at least I can install these:






I've got both of them installed and now I'm just waiting for the other half of the bearings:





I also bought a couple of Gits oilers for the bearings. For some reason, these were missing from my mill. Somebody must have removed them at some point:





These will help keep chips and garbage out of my new bearings:





That's all for now.


----------



## wa5cab

I'm sorry but pressing a cup in with a cone is a bad thing to do.  Although you don't care about any damage done to the old cone, you could damage the new cups.  A tapered roller bearing cup only has nearly zero width line contact with its cone.  Which means that if it took (just to pull a number out of the air) 100 pounds force to press the cup in, that force is concentrated on much less than 1% of the cup surface area.  This extreme concentration of force leads to what's called "brinelling".  Which means work hardening of the surface of the cup along however many very narrow lines as there are rollers in the cone.  The potential damage is not as severe as with ball bearings, where you have only point contact, but nonetheless can be significant.  The proper tool with which to press a tapered roller bearing cup in is ideally a flanged truncated cone with a flange OD just slightly less than the OD of the cup.  A reasonable substitute is a thick flat disk of just slightly smaller OD than the cup OD with a cylinder (or two or more disks) on the front of just slightly less OD than the minimum ID of the cup.

Robert D.


----------



## VSAncona

wa5cab said:


> I'm sorry but pressing a cup in with a cone is a bad thing to do.  Although you don't care about any damage done to the old cone, you could damage the new cups.  A tapered roller bearing cup only has nearly zero width line contact with its cone.  Which means that if it took (just to pull a number out of the air) 100 pounds force to press the cup in, that force is concentrated on much less than 1% of the cup surface area.  This extreme concentration of force leads to what's called "brinelling".  Which means work hardening of the surface of the cup along however many very narrow lines as there are rollers in the cone.  The potential damage is not as severe as with ball bearings, where you have only point contact, but nonetheless can be significant.  The proper tool with which to press a tapered roller bearing cup in is ideally a flanged truncated cone with a flange OD just slightly less than the OD of the cup.  A reasonable substitute is a thick flat disk of just slightly smaller OD than the cup OD with a cylinder (or two or more disks) on the front of just slightly less OD than the minimum ID of the cup.Robert D.


I was kind of wondering as I was doing it if it was a good idea or not. Unfortunately, I didn't have a spacer the right size to press them in. There's not much of a shoulder on that end. I actually got a couple extra cups, so maybe i'll try it again. I'll take the photos down so I don't give anyone any bad ideas.


----------



## VSAncona

Okay, let me try again. I have two extra cups that I've been saving for my Atlas lathe, so I decided to replace the ones that I just put in, just to be safe. I had some time this morning before taking the kids to school to give it another shot. I looked around my shop for something I could use to make a pusher for the cups. I didn't have any aluminum or steel large enough, but I had a chunk of Delrin lying about, so I faced it off and turned a shoulder on it to just barely  fit in the bore of the headstock:





Then I used that to press the cups into the headstock bores:





Hopefully, that didn't do any damage to the cups and I can move forward with putting the rest of it together:


----------



## frbutts

I am looking forward to pic's when finished. Great job so far.


----------



## 34_40

While "technically correct"  you aren't building a space shuttle, those bearing cups would've lasted a long time before you noticed anything amiss..  but you've rectified the issue nicely!  Good Job.


I like the oil cups you've added too.  I want to investigate mine tomorrow and see if I can copy yours.  TIA


----------



## wa5cab

34_40,

You are probably correct that VSA could probably have gone ahead and used the cups that were installed using the old cones.  But at least now, there's no question to worry about.  It partially depends upon how much force was applied.  FWIW, Harbor Freight (and probably others) sell a set of cup drivers made of aluminum.  But I don't know for certain that the set includes one of the proper size.  KD also sells a set, which is likely better quality.  And has more sizes.  But it wasn't cheap like the HF set.

The spindle oilers are, unlike the ones on the 10" and 12" lathes, standard Gits oilers.  I'm puzzled as to why so many mills seem to be missing them.  They are on the parts list (under an Atlas part number) and I can't imagine Atlas shipping a mill with them omitted.

Robert D.


----------



## VSAncona

I was thinking about the issue of installing the cups and it dawned on me that Atlas' instructions for removing the spindle to replace the belt are to whack on the outboard end of the spindle with a soft mallet, thereby forcing the outboard cone against the cup and driving the bearing off the spindle. The instructions don't say anything about replacing the cup after you do this, so apparently the engineers at Atlas didn't think it was an issue. But I suppose I don't have to worry now. The cups are pretty cheap on eBay. 

I was kind of puzzled as to why my mill was missing the oilers as well. It's also missing the little ball oiler in the arbor bearing that fits onto the end of the overarm bar. Someone would have had to go to a little bit of effort to remove these oilers, so it makes me wonder if they were just never installed at the factory to begin with.


----------



## 34_40

"Beating" out a bearing is very different than pushing one into position with a press.  After beating it out, I'd toss both parts.

No matter, you're in fine shape now.

I think I need to review the manual and specifically identify and verify these lube points and the condition of the components (if present!)..  The timing of ths topic is perfect since I just got mine running.  So thanks again!


----------



## 34_40

Took a look in mine and discovered one oil cup in place and the other is gone.  I wonder if it would've gone into the bottom?  If so, could it be easily retrieved?


----------



## VSAncona

If you can't find it, Amazon has them. They were around $4.00 apiece.


----------



## VSAncona

I made a little progress this weekend, but I had some other things going on so I didn't get quite as much done as I wanted. First off, my bearings and belt showed up in the mail:









To install the bearings, I made a pusher out of a piece of black iron pipe. It's just the right size to fit over the spindle but press on the inner race of the bearings. I faced off the ends on my lathe:










In order to fit the spindle and the pusher under my arbor press and still be able to press the bearing all the way onto the spindle, I had to use a series of spacers, pressing the bearing on a little way, then adding a spacer to press it on further. I actually used the spacers from one of the arbors that I got with the milling machine.





Next, I lightly pressed the inner dust caps in place:





Then I slipped the spindle through the headstock and added the bull gear, pulley, and spacer. It took three hands and a lot of swear words to get this all assembled, so I don't have any photos of the assembly in process. The biggest thing is not to forget to install the V-belt. Here are the parts all laid out:





And here it is with everything in place:





Next, I pressed the outboard bearing onto the back end of the spindle:





Then I added the outer dust caps. There's a notch in each dust cap. You need to line up the notch with the oil port in the bearing seat on the headstock:









Next came the spacer, gear, and collar. The threads on the end of the spindle were a little bit dinged up, so I had to clean them up before I could get the collar back on.









With the spindle assembly complete, I installed the back gear:





I ran into a problem with the back gear. There's too much side-to-side play and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. A check of the parts diagram shows that I'm missing a washer, part M6-255. I don't know if that is what is causing the problem, but I'll have to look into a little more. In the meantime, I set the headstock back on the column. It's starting to look like a mill again.





Next week, I'm hoping to tackle the change gear assembly.


----------



## 34_40

It's looking great!  Especially on that wonderful cabinet you made.. :thumbsup2:


----------



## VSAncona

I did a little more work on the mill tonight. First, I got the feed gear case put back together and reinstalled. I ended up repainting the case housing because all the paint came off when I cleaned it.





Then I put the inner guard back on:





And then the tumbler and reverse gear assembly:





I'm hoping to get the change gear assembly done tomorrow.


----------



## VSAncona

I worked on the change gear assembly this afternoon. This assembly probably has the most parts of any of the assemblies. There are a lot of gears to clean and de-gunk. Here's a before shot:





Here are all the cleaned up parts laid out:





After putting it all back together, I had a little trouble getting the gears to mesh and turn smoothly. They would catch and rub against one another. I ended up taking them off and lightly filing off any burrs on the face and that made a huge difference. Here it is all put back together:





The window on the Change-O-Matic scale had yellowed over the years. It's just a piece of acrylic plastic, so I made a new one:





And here it is installed:





And everything back on the mill:


----------



## 34_40

Sah Weet!  It looks great.  Thanks again for sharing the pics too.


----------



## ogberi

Very nice!   

The gear sector arm on mine was broken.  I believe I have all the parts still, but I'll probably fit electric power feed on one end of the table.  I'd like to get mine back to stock, but that'll take awhile,  and I need to be able to use it. 

You seem to have been luckier than I concerning zinc pest in the Zamak parts.  Most of mine corroded and swelled, necessitating that they be driven out of the bores in chunks.  :/  Hence my need for a new set of backgear eccentrics, pulleys, overarm cam locks, arbor support cam locks, pretty much anything that's Zamak.  Thankfully the spindle pulley is in good shape, although the holes for the bull gear pin have been beat up a bit. 

Yours is looking good!  Can't wait to pics of chips!


----------



## VSAncona

Thanks Ogberi. I'm anxious to get it running and start playing with it. I've already got a couple of projects in mind for it. I'm getting real close to having it done, but I've got obligations the next couple of weekends so it will have to wait a little longer.

So far I've been pretty lucky with the zamak parts -- nothing broken and no zinc pest. It looks like most of the change gears are the same as the gears used on the 6" Atlas lathe tough, so that might make it easier to find replacements.


----------



## jster1963

Beautiful!


----------



## VSAncona

I was out of town last weekend and have some kid activities going on this weekend, but I found a little time today to work on the mill. First, I got the countershaft cleaned up and re-installed:





Then I cleaned up the motor base:





I also cleaned up the guards, but I won't put them back on until I have the motor installed. The motor needs a little work yet and I have to wire up a switch. When I bought the mill, the switch and wiring had been removed, so I had to scrounge up a replacement for the toggle switch. Hopefully I'll have time next week to wire it up.


----------



## 34_40

VSA, is it easy to switch between pulleys ?   That is change speeds..   On mine the belt is very close to the mount,  at the moment the link belt lets me disassemble the belt to move between pulley sheeve selections.


----------



## VSAncona

34_40 said:


> VSA, is it easy to switch between pulleys ?   That is change speeds..   On mine the belt is very close to the mount,  at the moment the link belt lets me disassemble the belt to move between pulley sheeve selections.



Yeah, it's pretty easy to switch the belt with the tension released. I think the link belts are bulkier, so that might be part of the problem if you don't have room to slip the belt over the pulley steps.

I got the motor wired up and installed tonight. It's running, but there seems to be an issue with the back gear. Even with the pin in the bull gear pulled out, the bull gear and spindle pulley still seem to spin together. They must be binding somewhere. I will have to see if I can get it sorted out. The motor bearings are also a little noisy and I suspect they need replacing.


----------



## wa5cab

Victor,

Did you pull the screw and lube the pulley bushings?  If you slack the belts and pull the pin out, does the pulley spin freely?


----------



## VSAncona

I played around with it a little more and I think it's okay. What was throwing me was that when I had the back gear disengaged and the pin pulled out and the belts slacked, the spindle gear and pulley would turn independently by hand, but both would spin together when I flipped the power switch and tensioned the belts. I checked my lathe though and it does the same thing, so I'm not concerned about it. In use, I won't ever be running it with the pin pulled out and the back gears disengaged, so it shouldn't be a problem.

I have a few more small parts to finish up -- cover plates, arbor support, etc. Then I'll do a pre-flight check to make sure everything is adjusted and oiled correctly. If everything goes well, I'm hoping to make my first chips this weekend.

Vince


----------



## ogberi

Sounds like the drag of the pulley bushings spinning it.  If they turn easily, independently by hand they should be fine.   Don't forget to oil the pulley via the set screw once in awhile, too.


----------



## 34_40

VSAncona said:


> Yeah, it's pretty easy to switch the belt with the tension released. I think the link belts are bulkier, so that might be part of the problem if you don't have room to slip the belt over the pulley steps..



Thanks for the info..  I need to look at mine again.  Your jackshaft mount seems different than mine.  I'll need to get a picture to compare the 2.    Congrats on the progress,  I'm excited for you!  Can't wait to read your making the chips fly...


----------



## wa5cab

34_40,

He may just have a different model mill than what you have.  Over the years of production, there were three different countershaft pulleys used (4-groove, 3-groove and 2-groove), three different countershaft hangers, two different countershaft brackets, and three different pairs of belt guards.


----------



## 34_40

And I can guess one of the reasons why they redesigned the jackshaft mount!   LOL..


----------



## VSAncona

I got it running tonight and started to make some chips and then the mill started making a clanking sound. I opened it up and saw that a set screw had come loose from one of the collars on back gear shaft. So it's back to troubleshooting tomorrow night. I think it's going to take me awhile to get all the kinks ironed out.


----------



## 34_40

Sorry the first ride didn't get all that far..  but I'm certain you'll nail it!

Is this a location for a thread locker?


----------



## VSAncona

I had some limited success tonight. The table kept binding up and stopping mid-cut. Turns out the nut holding one of the crank handles on had loosened up allowing too much backlash in the lead screw. Once I tightened it back down, the auto feed worked fine. I still need to sort out the issue with the back gears, but for tonight I just tried using it in direct drive. It's working and I was able to make some cuts, but something still needs adjusting someplace -- it really labors and makes a lot of noise if I try to take a cut deeper than .010". But even with those issues still to resolve, I was able to do some milling tonight.

Here's a couple of shots of the mill finally all put back together:









For my first project, I am making a fixture plate from Rudy Kouhoupt's plans:









One thing I've already noticed is that the working envelope of this machine is even smaller than I thought. By the time you account for clamps or fixturing devices, there's not a whole lot of working room. I will have to get creative with how I hold workpieces to the table. And I will need to start picking up some clamps and other holding devices as I can afford them. But I think I'm going to have a lot of fun with this machine.


----------



## 34_40

Congrats on the progress.   I think a .010"  cut with that shell mill in full contact is asking alot of the mill.  
But that is based solely on my limited exposure / experience with my mill.

But you are getting a decent finish along the cut with yours.


----------



## ogberi

Very nice!   The work envelope on these machines is about the same as a mini mill, but they're much more robust.  Imagine swinging a cutter that size in an X2 or similar mill at that depth of cut...  

I found my machine to be pretty picky about the gibs being adjusted just-so.  I ended up using a piece of .002" flat spring steel between the gib and the dovetail, tightening the gibs so the table would barely not move, then withdrawing the shim. That worked for me, but I can't find the shim stock anymore. Probably used it for something...   Also, the three bolts that hold each side to the knee's ways don't get torqued down, just snugged enough to let the knee travel but not bind.  I used split type locking washers under mine to prevent them backing off under vibrations.  I thought about loc-tite, the low strength type, but didn't have any on-hand.  I may still do that.  

If there's any slop in your ways, it'll probably be in the middle of the table. That's where most of the cutting takes place, same as on a regular mill, in the X axis.  The knee shouldn't have much wear, and the Z axis (in and out towards the spindle) usually won't either.  These machines tended to wear the middle of the tables out before anything.  

Using backgear you can power through metal like mad.   I always had the idea of buying some of those 4" diameter carbide-tipped saw blades, mounting it on a faceplate and turning the center hole large enough for an arbor and filing in a keyway.  That'd make nice slots in a workpiece.  

But I think one of the handiest things I used my mill for was turning short, fat drill bits.  In backgear, with a silver and demming drill, I plowed a 1 1/2" hole in aluminum with no trouble at all.  Much easier than the drill press would have done.   

Awesome to see it making chips!  Can't wait to see the finished fixture plate, I may need to make one myself too.


----------



## VSAncona

Well, I think I spoke too soon. I spent most of yesterday playing with the mill and I kept having problems. I've tried a bunch of different things and can't seem to get it to work right. I'm really frustrated.

It runs fine without any load. There is some vibration in the motor pulley setup, but nothing terrible. As soon as the cutter enters the metal though, it starts making a knocking sound, just like you get when making an interrupted cut on a lathe. It gets louder with deeper cuts. It does it in back gear and in direct drive. The pounding is bad enough that it keeps loosening the set screw on the spindle gear, causing it to separate from the spindle pulley when I use the mill in back gear. I'm not sure what is causing the knocking/pounding. I've tried tightening the belts, tightening the pre-load on the bearings, and making sure the gibs are tight. I tried checking the runout of the spindle and it's about half a thou on the outside boss and 1-2 thousandths inside the taper (not good, I know, but it is what it is). Even so, I can't imagine the runout would cause it to run so roughly. I think I need to take a break from it and come back to it later.


----------



## ogberi

If you have any MT2 collets, try using an endmill.  Horizontal mills tend to have a "lope" to the cut, because it's near impossible to get the cutter on the arbor to have zero runout.  brrrrRRRRrrrrrRRRRrrrr... that's what mine sounded like.   I noticed a lot of noise when flycutting on it.  The spindle pulleys look to be cast zamak, and the bull gear pin tends to hammer out the hole the drive pin sits in, by a little bit.   I honestly have no idea how much knock is too much, which is one of the reasons I tore mine down.  

If I am correct, you're talking about the ring on the left-hand side of the pulleys, with 2 set screws in it.  My spindle has two corresponding blind holes in it that the set screws engage to prevent the collar from sliding on the spindle.   If that's working loose, and you don't have the blind holes in the spindle, I would remove the spindle, put the bull gear, pulleys, and ring on it and bring them up snug. Then transfer punch the spindle through the holes in the ring and dimple it so the set screws have something to bite into.   You *should* have the blind holes already, if it's a factor spindle (unless they got really lazy, it's a possibility). 

Double-check your ring on the very left-hand end of the spindle.  I had to run mine in until there was about .001 axial play, then I ran that ring down about 4 teeth to pull the tapered bearings together to eliminate all axial play in the spindle and get it tight.  Despite seating the outer races with a tool and lead hammer, they "settled" in more when I cranked tension on the spindle.  Mine is easily turned by hand, but without anything (belts, etc) on the spindle, it only turns about 1/2 a turn or so when spun by hand.  *any* slop in the spindle bearings will cause no end of grief while cutting.  

Don't get too discouraged.  I'm not terribly far behind you (got my spindle back in, need to clean/paint the jackshaft mount this weekend), and if all else fails, have a cup 'o joe, a cigar, and stare at it for awhile.  These are great little machines, and you'll figure it out.  

Besides, you're making chips while I'm spending all weekend on the honey-do list.  Vacuuming the house != fun.    Plus about 80 sq ft of yard to turn into a rose garden.   I could use a roto-tiller about now....


----------



## wa5cab

ogberi said:


> Also, the three bolts that hold each side to the knee's ways don't get torqued down, just snugged enough to let the knee travel but not bind.  I used split type locking washers under mine to prevent them backing off under vibrations.  I thought about loc-tite, the low strength type, but didn't have any on-hand.  I may still do that.



Ogbert,

If you can't torque down the three 5/16"-18 hex head cap screws on each side of the knee, you need another M1-54 shim each side.  The parts manual doesn't give the thickness but I would guess 0.002".


----------



## VSAncona

Thanks Ogberi, that gives me something else to check. I don't know if it's the collar with the two set screws or the set screw in the bull gear, but one of them is coming loose and allowing the parts to float apart from each other. I don't have any blind holes in my spindle for the collar set screws. This leads me to one other question. Should the collar/pulley/bull gear be positioned to the back of the spindle, or centered on it, or to the front?

I don't have any end mills yet, but I tried a shell end mill and it worked a little better. Still not as good as I'd like though. I think I'm going to stop messing with it for awhile. It's becoming like a sore that I can't stop picking at. I'll come back to it after a day or two and find something else to work on.


----------



## wa5cab

Position them so that the back gears and the pulleys (belt) line up.


----------



## VSAncona

wa5cab said:


> Position them so that the back gears and the pulleys (belt) line up.



I tried that when I reassembled it, but the problem is that that back gears and pulleys can be positioned in various spots along theirs shafts too. So it's kind of a chicken or egg situation.

I tried a shell end mill yesterday and got a little better results. I'm still getting some chatter at the start of the cut, but I will take another look at the gib adjustment. These shoulder cuts are straight off the mill:


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  I guess that I was assuming that the other two were still as-found.  The general location of the bull gear is with its set screw centered over the Woodruff key.  Put the bull gear in that location.  Tighten up on the pulley and small gear (requirement here is minimum end float in the pulley but still free to rotate when the back gear pin is pulled out).  Then adjust the position of the back gears and the countershaft pulley to match.


----------



## VSAncona

Okay, I'll try that and see if it makes a difference.

One more question about bearing preload. How freely should the spindle turn without any tension on the belt? If I spin it by hand, it will spin a couple of revolutions before stopping. I'm thinking that might be too loose.


----------



## wa5cab

That's probably too loose unless the spindle and gears are warm.  The Atlas Technical Bulletin on the 6" headstock for the most part applies to the mill as well.  The spindle and back gears are either the same or close to it.  As Downloads is Down for the foreseeable future, I just attached a PDF of it.  It says that with the belt slack and the bearings at the proper preload, there should be a slight drag as you rotate the spindle by hand, However, it is notable that all of the headstock bulletins are written as though the bearing cones were a push fit on the spindle.  Which seems never to be the case.  So approach the zero end float point slowly.  And use a dial indicator on the spindle nose end to check for zero.


----------



## VSAncona

I've got it running a little better now. I tried swapping out the arbor and the second one seems to be doing a better job. I don't know if it's the arbor or the cutter, but it's running smoother. I put up a short video clip of it running:


----------



## shawn

i have a pick a gear holder and most of the gears. and an original atlas indexer tailstock in near new condition if you could use them.


----------



## wa5cab

Shawn,

I would be interest in the Pic-O-Gear holder.  I have the complete horizontal indexer for the MFx except for the gear stand.  I haven't looked at the tailstock in a year (because I'm still working on the spot to set the mill up in) so don't recall what condition it's in.  Will have to check.


----------



## shawn

Well, we live fairly close.  So just let me know..


----------



## wa5cab

Yep, I noticed that sometime after writing my previous.  I'm in Spring Branch just inside the Beltway, so maybe 30 miles.  Let me get the crate open and take a fresh look at the tailstock I have, and also check the gears.  I think that I have a full set but haven't actually counted them.


----------



## 34_40

If our moderator does pass on the purchase - can I request a shot at it?


----------



## wa5cab

If I don't get the crate opened today, I'll do it tomorrow.


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  I do not need the tailstock.  But I do want the Pic-O-Gear stand.  PM or email me your asking price and how you want to be paid.  And although we aren't that many miles apart, the majority of the city of Houston is in between and it's probably cheaper and certainly less time invested to ask you to ship it.


----------



## VSAncona

The Pic-o-gear stand wasn't really a mill accessory. It was offered with the Pick-o-Matic lathe. Atlas only made them for a couple of years, so they are fairly rare and hard to come by.


----------



## wa5cab

Yes, I know.  The Pic-O-Matic gearbox was discontinued as soon as the 1500 GCQB came out.  But I've wondered more than once why they didn't offer the gear stand as an accessory for the horizontal indexer.  Or for that matter, just for the garden variety change gear lathes.  I would think that they would have sold quite a few of them.


----------



## JPMacG

I have been following this thread closely.  Several months ago I purchased a beat up MFC, more like a kit of parts than a functioning machine.  This thread had been immensely helpful.

I am installing a spindle belt, following the directions given in the Atlas instruction manual.  There was no cushion material beneath the threaded collar on the left side of the spindle.   I mean the collar that is used to set the bearing pre load.  It was probably lost many years and several owners ago.  The spindle threads were mangled where the set screw had contacted the spindle.  I was able to clean up the threads so that the collar now threads on freely.

When I put it back together I want to use a cushion material so the threads don't get messed up again.   I'm thinking of a slug of Nylon or maybe a soft tipped set screw.  Does anyone know what the "cushion" material that Atlas speaks of in their instruction manual actually is?   Has anyone found  a substitute material that works well?

Thanks!


----------



## wa5cab

Jon,

Although I have seen the material referred to as lead, I bought some of the parts from Clausing and what I received is brass.  You can buy the parts from Clausing.  I did but I was also buying other parts at the time (and FWIW the parts were for a lathe).  However, if you don't need other parts, and if you have the capability to cut off short pieces of brass rod without leaving a burr on one end, you can buy one piece of rod from most any hobby store (and many other places as well) and make the two that you need.  I think that nylon would be too soft, and unless the soft tipped set screws that you buy are tipped with brass or lead, they are probably too soft as well.


----------



## Rob

I have also heard of using lead shot for cushioning.  If you know someone that reloads shotgun shells you should be able to get several pellets from them.


----------



## JPMacG

I have an assortment of soft solders of different diameters and alloys.  I'll try that.  Thanks everyone.


----------



## wa5cab

Be sure that the solder doesn't contain flux.  If it does, you won't like the consequences.


----------



## JPMacG

Right.   I have some that don't.  I do worry that once the solder gets mashed against the spindle threads I will not be able to release it easily by unscrewing the set screw.   I might  have to remove the threaded collar with a pipe wrench and pick the solder out.

Maybe brass is a better idea.   Solder may be too maleable.


----------



## wa5cab

Yes, I think so.  But I wasn't going to argue with you.


----------



## Mondo

VSAncona:

This thread contains a treasure trove of information and photographs!  Thank you!
I have one request:
If you have opportunity, and there is no rush on this I won't have mine up and running for several months yet, can you sketch and dimension out the support bar on the front of the machine?



Part number: M1-61 bar

It seems these are as rare as 50 carat diamonds and Ebay scrappers want to retire on the sale of them.  I don't have a vault full of Krugerrands so I'll have to make one.
TIA!

Spiral_Chips


----------



## VSAncona

Are you a member of the Yahoo Atlas Shaper and Milling Machine group? If not, you should join it (it's free, but you have to be "approved" by the moderator). There is a PDF drawing with measurements of the part you are looking for. It's much nicer than anything I could do.


----------



## Mondo

Super!  I am a member of the Atlas-Craftsman Metal Working Machines group there.  Should be easy enough to get connected.

Thanks!


----------

