# Which Lathe Would You Suggest?



## malmac

Hi Folks

Trying to get a better idea of which lathe would be a better buy. Realise that there are subjective questions in here but interested in teasing out a range of questions that I probably have not even asked. Thanks in advance for your comments.

Option One: Buy a new Tiawanese lathe made by Sunmaster - quite a good quality lathe as far as I can tell. I think this same RML1440 is sold in the US under the Kent brand.
	

		
			
		

		
	



Second Option: Buy a secondhand Colchester lathe. Here is one example that is for sale at only a slightly lower price than the Sunmaster from Taiwan (new). I am thinking this lathe must be about a 1993 vintage machine - so a fair bit of wear and tear is possibly already inflicted -


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## 34_40

"Slightly lower"???
If the roles were revered, I'd go with the all new unit,  I'd expect some kind of warranty with a new machine to help avoid any "surprises".
But I guess it always depends on the dollars.


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## chips&more

That’s a no brainer, the Colchester! BUT, make sure everything works…run it. If you need to buy parts for it, you might wind up in the hospital after talking to the manufacture for a price.


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## mksj

Hands down, the RML. Either one is probably way more than you will need. The RML is industrial quality, even by local sellers that I have spoke to, way more than a hobbyist would need. Why buy something something that parts would most likely be a problem in sourcing  and very expensive, vs. a known quality machine. Why even consider a used machine if  an RML is within your budget and you have a local dealer. Q.E.D.


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## westsailpat

With the Colchester it looks like you will be getting some extras , I think I see a DRO on there . Tooling package will be a factor . A 1440 is hardly a hobby lathe . As I'm sure you are aware you will need 3 phase for either of those babies . Back round 86' when I was starting my shop I scored a 1440 Taiwan lathe , It was called a Good Way . It had a tooling package , major stuff was 3- 4- 6 jaw chucks (nice ones) a JFK collet  closer, a taper attachment and a 6 station bed turret plus tail stock , steady and follow rest , Trav-A-Dial and boxes of  Morse taper drills and a lot of carbide  bits . Also a 4 way tool post and a Aloris with a bunch of holders . And I only paid $ 3,500 . That is cheap I know but it was a right place right time thing .  By the way I sold my entire shop 7 yrs' ago at which time that lathe was tired but still working ! By the way malmac what are your plans as far as what you are going to do with a 1440 ?


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## malmac

Hey, thanks guys for your responses. I had never used a lathe before buying my current machine about five years ago. In that time I find I use it more and more as I do projects. The most recent project completed was a major overhaul of my son's old motorbike engine. This included machining his flywheel to fit in with a new repro crankshaft - just to mention one of the jobs. My current lathe is OK for lots of stuff BUT the runout and accuracy is just not there for parts which need to mesh in a high speed environment - like bike engines running at 4-5 thousand RPM. So I thought I might buy a better lathe.

I don't need the 40 inch bed BUT to get a decent sized spindle bore - bigger bore, longer bed - is common. I am also looking at some 800mm between centre lathes and to be up front I would be happy with 600mm between centres  but with an 80mm spindle bore - but I am not going to get that - so it is about finding a working compromise. So I think stay above 50mm spindle bore size, get a DRO and coolant system, stay away from Chinese manufacture (hard to determine quality) - get good thread cutting options and functionality - and a few other considerations.

I am looking at four major dimensions -
1. Accuracy
2. Functionality - what can it do
3. Capacity - how bigger bit can it work with -
4. Cost

I can afford a new RML but it does mean less money to spend on other stuff - the money pit is not bottomless.
Also a good quality lathe will still be a good quality lathe in years to come - when an older CNC may be difficult to run when software etc interface is either not available or buried in some cloud bank at $xxxxx per month fee. So I think manual is the way to go.

Thanks for taking an interest and always open to suggestions and ideas.

Regards


mal


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## wa5cab

I don't have any suggestions as I've no experience in the size range you seem to be aiming at.  But I'll comment on the comment on Colchester repair parts cost.  They may give you nosebleed, but so will any parts for any new machine.  I haven't had to buy any parts recently for my 12x36 but some AH recently broke out the back glass of my Land Rover (and stole two tool boxes) and the cost to repair, after my discount was within the cost of a hamburger of $1000.  Of which over half was for a flat piece of glass.  People our age are too prone to remembering what things cost in the 60's.


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## malmac

Sorry to hear about your back window being smashed - the world is not populated by angels.
I am going down later in the week to look at a Harrison Lathe - bit smaller in size than I want - but about the budget I had set - so we will see - life is made up of compromises -

regards

Mal


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## mksj

There are a few lathes made in a 1440 or 1640 configuration with a large spindle bore and take a D1-8 chuck. So if this is high on your must have list, it may be an option. The jet would be less than the RML, Sharp gets a premium, but there are other vendors who have the same machine (Acra, kent, Acer?). Accuracy at this level is more user based, and also comes down to quality of the chucks and tooling. Functionally, they all would be full featured at this level, have universal gearboxes, short of some electronic speed control and EVS I am not sure what else you would be looking for. Cutting capacity, at this level, they will all peel away material at a very high rate. Even on a smaller less rigid machine, I can get a 0.1" DOC with no issues and with an automated stop system, I can repeat very quickly. Probably comes down to quality, support and cost. 

If you where in an area where you had more access to lathe parts and you like to rebuild machines, then an older used lathe may be an option, but being somewhat remote will make that a problem.  Getting parts, even with current production machines can be an issue, but at least you can get parts. Otherwise you have a very heavy paper weight sitting in your shop. Jet would rank high as to availability of parts.

GH-1440ZX, 3-1/8" Spindle Bore Geared Head Lathe  321910
http://www.jettools.com/us/en/p/gh-1440zx-3-1-8-spindle-bore-geared-head-lathe/321910

Sharp 1640L, 3-1/8" Spindle Bore Geared Head Lathe
http://www.sharp-industries.com/product/1640lv1660lv


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## malmac

Thank you for the links mksj -
Yesterday I went and had a look at a couple of new Colchester lathes and also a new Taiwanese lathe. I know that Colchester are now largely or completely built in Taiwan - however the difference between the two lathes, in my estimation was significant. I liked the specs on the Taiwanese lathe - Liouy Hsing - 430x1100.

The first Colchester was a Triumph 2000 - very nice machine - very nice - really just too big for my home workshop.

Then we looked at the Student 2500 lathe - now this lathe is only a whisker bigger than my current lathe, but it was a pleasure to operate the controls, had really nice feel and is a well appointed lathe for it's size. This lathe would fit nicely into my workspace - if only it had a 51mm spindle bore it would be looking like a sure thing - and it still may be - we will see.

However I have not been able to see a RML or ERL lathe from Sun Master in Taiwan as I have been told they are also a lovely bit of kit.

So the search continues.


Mal


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## malmac

Well after a long search I am really close - the RML / ERL fell by the wayside because I just could not see one, so that was a deal breaker.

Considered a Gosan, but again only dealer was 2000km away, so that made it hard BUT the guys at Modern Tools Melbourne are fantastic and I would certainly deal with them if only I was closer.

Ruled out a Hwacheon on the basis of price - looks like a great machine, so back with the Colchester as being a great machine and 600Machinery have good price coupled with a commitment to facilitate set up, onsite training and support which will make the transition a smoother event. So we are looking at the Colchester Triumph 2000, which has a 54mm spindle bore, 400mm swing over bed and 1250mm between centres.
16 speed manual lathe with a DRO and other goodies.

So now the selection process is drawing to a close - one way or the other I will make a commitment with dollars tomorrow. Good to sleep on things.

Cheers


mal


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## mksj

All these machines would be be high quality, so I would say they are all great choices providing they address your work envelope. Local support is also significant. I still would give some consideration to the ERL/RML series, one of the forum members purchased the ERL-1340 and it looks mighty fine. He posted some videos on it operating and it is a very smooth machine. May be worth PM him if you have an interest/questions. Unfortunately it is not always possible to get your hands on the exact machine you want to purchase, I just did that with an LMV-42 mill based on reviews and discussions with other machinists. The fit and finish, function exceeded my expectations.
ERL-1340 post: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/erl-1340.39331/page-4#post-413105
Mark


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## malmac

Yes the video clips are a treat.
I was interested in the RML machine however I was unable to actually see one and I have been caught before - machines that look good in a picture disappoint when seen in the flesh/metal.

With the Colchester I have been able to run the machine at a wide range of speeds and I like the benefits of things like pressure lubricated headstock bearings, including replaceable spin on oil filter. I would have liked a slightly shorter machine, so I could avoid the necessity of relocating my milling machine.

I am just measuring the shed today and testing my plans against reality to make sure I don't find myself up a creek without a paddle.

Thanks for your input.

Mal


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## malmac

Well been in touch with my supplier this morning - things are looking promising. I can get a shorter bed version which will give me 650mm between centres - rather than 1250mm. So the lathe drops back to an overall length of 2 meters of floor space rather than 2.7 meters. Big difference in size and I still get my 54mm spindle bore and my high quality 16 speed geared headstock and so forth. A few more hurdles to jump, but things are looking good.


Mal


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## malmac

OK - the deal is done. I have ordered a Colchester Triumph 2000 with the short bed option of 650mm.

Now it is time to rearrange the workshop and settle down for delivery which will be about 8 weeks away.

Thanks to all who have contributed.

Mal


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## 34_40

malmac said:


> OK - the deal is done. I have ordered a Colchester Triumph 2000 with the short bed option of 650mm.
> Now it is time to rearrange the workshop and settle down for delivery which will be about 8 weeks away.
> Thanks to all who have contributed.
> Mal



Congrats and Good Luck with the purchase!  I'm certain you'll be enjoying the time, making the chips fly in the near future....


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## Cheeseking

Congratulations . I believe you made a good choice.   We have a 15x50 Colchester at work bought new in 1995 and its been an absolutely outstanding machine.    In 20+ years the only mechanical failure was a round-cord oil pump "brammer?" belt.   Twice.   Seems chips can work their way near it under the end cover and shreds.  As others mentioned parts are a phone call away but OMG - " Would you like that with lube or without Sir?" 
At home I have a baby '79 Colchester 11x30 geared head and its also been a great machine.


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## malmac

Thank you for your response. For a machinist, it is like waiting for the new baby to arrive. I am already preparing the nursery (workshop in our language) and doing a bit of a stocktake on what new tooling I will need. Though yesterday I was on the old lathe turning up some parts which formed part of a bracket - and imagining how much better the new lathe will perform - I have no chuck guard on the old lathe so tend to come in covered in chips. Yes all very exciting. The projects are already jockeying for a good position on the to do list.

Cheers


mal


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## Cheeseking

Yup I remember "machine delivery and moving" day for each of my machines very well and its super exciting for sure!!   Other than a foot brake and geared head which are standard features on your machine, one of the most useful (almost mandatory) accessories in my view is a good quick change tool post.   I change tools back and forth so often I couldn't imagine working without one.   The DRO I added is nice but nowhere near the utility vs cost ratio.  Throw some photos up when you get it.   Be sure to take lots of the unload process too.   I love seeing that stuff.


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## malmac

No worries - will have the camera running. The lathe ordered has a quick change tool post - not had one before so that will be a treat - and to tell the truth the whole lathe will be a treat. Big step up for this little black duck.

Thanks for sharing my excitement.

Mal


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## malmac

I was reflecting on how big this lathe will look in my workshop - "beached whale" came to mind - Moby Dick was a white whale. So my machinery rep's name is Wally and somehow it all just came together. I know this is not the way most serious engineering folk see the world - but then again I am a little left of centre.

Well back top work.


cheers


mal


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## malmac

Well the new lathe is due in October - here is the footprint plan I have drawn to scale - just to make sure where the crane puts it, allows everything to open and shut and still clear the milling machine.
Electrician still has to come and run the cable for the three phase power and my son has to come tomorrow and take away the old lathe (which has all new head and electric motor bearings - so it is running like a small train).


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## malmac

Well the lathe is at the machinery house and I go down tomorrow to check it out prior to delivery next Tuesday.
Will keep you posted on progress.


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## malmac

This is our lathe waiting for transportation to our workshop next week. Looks a bit dishevelled - with it's swarf bin askance and marijuana emblazoned tie down straps - mmmmmm
Also a small van is parked behind it and that adds a funny light coloured object.

Regards


mal


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## wa5cab

Here is malmac's photo.


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## malmac

Am I doing something wrong when posting photos?


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## wa5cab

I'm not sure.  Are you running something made by Apple or using Tappatalk?  It seems that every few weeks to months, all Apple and Tappatalk users start having problems.  

Are you physically uploading photos or embedding a link?  When I open your post for Edit, I can see a link, and then the photo.  I copied the link and pasted it into my browser, downloaded the file, and uploaded it.  In any case, avoid embedded links.  If nothing else, when they work, they work slower.  Use the UPLOAD A FILE button between the POST REPLY and MORE OPTIONS... buttons.


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## malmac

Yes I have been putting my images on Flicka and embedding a link - in future I will try the uploading image -
what is the appropriate resolution to make my images for uploading?
I usually make them 1800 pixels on the long side - is that too big?


Thanks for your help


Mal


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## wa5cab

OK.  I think that's what was being done (embedding a link) the last time that several people were getting the Red X.  Of course, that doesn't explain why the photos look OK in your earlier post.

1800 should be OK.  I didn't do any re-sizing so that must be what the photo just above is.


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## malmac

Well I will see how 1800 goes - if it needs to be smaller, I will make them smaller.

Thanks again.


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## Silverbullet

I'm thinking sometime down the road you'll wish you got the longer bed . It's always that way with me . Sure as geese make pellets a job will come up longer then you can handle. I can't be the only one this happens too.


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## malmac

I could have fitted in the longer bed - 1250mm between centres - BUT - yes BUT everything else would have been jammed up and less usable -  just so on the odd occasion I would be able to turn something longer than  625mm. The bed looks shorter than it really is because the head is massive and the tail stock is a substantial MT5 unit.

Won't it be great when I have projects coming out of my ears and then one sneaks in that would require 900mm between centres - "no can do" - Oh well back to the 1001 that are shorter than 625mm.

All that said yes the time will come - BUT a bigger lathe would have cramped the workshop immediately and every day I worked there - so it is a "small" compromise to make.

Cheers


Mal

They gave me the instruction manual to check out prior to delivery - interesting -

So for example - here is the diagram which shows four different change gear configurations - now because of the gearbox arrangement - each set gives a wide range of thread cutting / feed rates but I missed this when I made the purchase - I just didn't get down deep enough to see it. True without manually removing gears and replacing with alternative gears the machine will cut metric threads in a range from .036 through to 3.5mm - and of course a fairly good selection of imperial threads.
Now it may well be the case that many or even most engine lathes follow this line of attack -

But just one of the surprises I have come across by reading the manual which I asked for but was unable to acquire prior to the machine delivery.


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## malmac

Well the lathe arrived all safe and sound and we hired a truck to poke it into the shed.




While I can run the machine and it has been levelled by the technician from 600 Machinery - still work to do getting the workspace set up. One task is getting the 4 jaw chuck and the 3 jaw chucks in a position where I can move them on and off the spindle in a controlled way. I am no Hercules so I need to make this as easy as possible.

Also have not as yet charged the coolant tank - certainly have not even looked at the DRO to get my head around it's functions.

The electrician still has to arrive to permanently wire the machine into the main power supply - at present it is just running on a 20 amp 3 phase lead.

Mal


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## malmac

Well here we are into 2017 already. The new lathe is really no longer the new lathe. Being small jobs and trying to get my accuracy and repeatability sorted. Not there yet.

Loving the power feed and the DRO - have cut several threads - a breeze now. So very happy.

Mal


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## FOMOGO

That looks like a very stout machine. Did the fork bearing head issue ever get resolved? I know sometimes, jobs get sidelined. Cheers, Mike


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## malmac

The steering head bearing mounting is still waiting for my attention. I have purchased suitable stock to machine up some pieces to use in my press to try and address the issue.
But first I needed a small overhead crane to lift the four jaw chuck on and off the machine because I cant lift it.



Then my grandson needs a billycart - so before the crane is even installed I have to finish this billy cart.



And then my Dividing head arrived and I got distracted into having a quick look at how that might work.


So I am the master of distractions and side tracks.

But thank you for asking anyway - I will get back to it - along with many other small jobs which a patiently waiting their turn.

Mal


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