# Rotary table problem



## Video_man

Bought a beautiful new 8 inch Phase II rotary table, very pleased with it.  And then --- disaster --- one time as I was lifting the heavy and oily table, every so carefully, to the mill table ---- somehow it slipped from my grasp and fell to the concrete floor.  No apparent damage to the outside, the table rotates nicely and the dti shows it's still concentric ---BUT the worm will not longer disconnect (rotate out of engagement) so the table can be rotated by hand.  

OK, the instructions warn not to even bump the worm, it's fragile.  And I can live without the manual capability.  But I hate it when things don't work right.  My attempts to open the table, working with the parts diagram, have come to naught.  It was a truck shipment and sending it to the US distributor for repair is impractical.

Questions:  Anybody know how to disassemble this table?  Is doing that likely to do more harm than good, i.e., mess up the table alignment?
If I did disassemble it, assuming the worm is bent somehow, is it home-fixable?

At this point, I am leaving well-enough alone, but appreciate any thoughts.


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## Metalmann

Years ago, I repaired, customized, a couple of those. Not that brand of course...got any pics?


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## Video_man

Thanks, Metalmann, Well, there doesn't seem to be any visible damage, but here are some photos:

I have made a try at dis-assembly using the attached parts diagram, but the table locks (part 5) are firmly, if not locktited, in place and I assume they have to turn.  I'm worried that if I did remove the table from the base that it might not go back in good alignment, which is more important to me than the worm connect/disconnect feature.  Thoughts?


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## Charley Davidson

I have Benny's RT sitting on my BP right now, it is in perfect working order so I'll disassemble it and see what makes it tick:lmao:  I'll also let you know how hard it is to reassemble:lmao:


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## Video_man

Charley Davidson said:


> I have Benny's RT sitting on my BP right now, it is in perfect working order so I'll disassemble it and see what makes it tick:lmao: I'll also let you know how hard it is to reassemble:lmao:



That's very generous, might be a problem with that idea, I just can't put my finger on it at the moment...!:huh:


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## bcall2043

Charley Davidson said:


> I have Benny's RT sitting on my BP right now, it is in perfect working order so I'll disassemble it and see what makes it tick:lmao: I'll also let you know how hard it is to reassemble:lmao:



Tell me again why you would take apart my "perfect working" rotary table

Benny


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## Charley Davidson

bcall2043 said:


> Tell me again why you would take apart my "perfect working" rotary table
> 
> Benny



Someone hacked my account:thinking:


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## bollie7

I can't work out from the drawing how the worm is put in and out of mesh with the wheel. I'd assume there is some sort of eccentric in there but might be wrong.
You might be able to get the worm out without removing the table. If you remove all the worm retaining screws you might be able to wind the worm out of mesh and them remove it. Just a thought. I wouldn't think you would have any alignment problems on re-assemble if you do have to remove the table. Can you keep us informed as to your progress (with pics if possible) please? It might be very helpful to others here.
regards
bollie7


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## Video_man

bollie7 said:


> I can't work out from the drawing how the worm is put in and out of mesh with the wheel. I'd assume there is some sort of eccentric in there but might be wrong.



You're right, there is an eccentric, part 37 I think.  I've tried removing all the screws but the worm shaft and eccentric are retained internally as far as I can tell.  Nothing coming out through the opening behind the handwheel, although I have tried.  Thanks for the thought!


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## bollie7

What's item no 8? Is it an oil filler plug or a nut to retain the wormshaft? Looks like there is an O ring or washer so I'm guessing a filler plug. Is there any holes, cover plates etc on that side of the housing?
Looking at the diagram it appears that the worm and all the bits go in from the handwheel end so they should come out, but if something has broken inside then it could be a problem. 
Too bad you are so far away. I love mucking around with this sort if thing.
regards
bollie7


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## bollie7

I've just found a better quality drawing online with a parts listing.
http://www.phase2plus.com/manuals/H...IQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGGfl4RhUFNlWzOJSuUXWA_Sg_ZrA

Have you removed items 28,29 & 30? Looks like item 29 (threaded pin) engages in a groove just behind the large dia section of item 37. If you haven't removed that pin, that might be what is stopping you from pulling that part  (item 37) out.
I'm not sure how the eccentric is operated to engage or disengage the worm. Item 25 looks like a clamp. 

regards
bollie7


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## Video_man

bollie7 said:


> I've just found a better quality drawing online with a parts listing.
> http://www.phase2plus.com/manuals/H...IQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGGfl4RhUFNlWzOJSuUXWA_Sg_ZrA
> 
> Have you removed items 28,29 & 30? Looks like item 29 (threaded pin) engages in a groove just behind the large dia section of item 37. If you haven't removed that pin, that might be what is stopping you from pulling that part  (item 37) out.
> I'm not sure how the eccentric is operated to engage or disengage the worm. Item 25 looks like a clamp.
> 
> regards
> bollie7



Yes, thanks, I have tried removing all of those, they appear to be adjustments of some kind but don't release the worm.  The item 25 is the lever that operates the lock that locks the worm in or out of adjustment.   The eccentric is rotated by hand with the lock undone into the engaged or non-engaged position. 

I removed it, too, didn't do any good.  Item 8 from your previous message is indeed the oil plug (edit: that's oil slight glass, the plug is elsewhere).    There appears to be a bearing on the inside end of the worm and a pin or key retaining the worm shaft inside the eccentric.  Really appreciate your input, thanks!


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## bollie7

Without having one in front of me I can't think of anything else. Do you have a dissassembly procedure from phase2? It will probbaly be something really simple, when you find it.
best of luck with it.
regards
bollie7


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## Charley Davidson

Bet you gotta take the table off before you can get the worm gear out, looks like you can see quite a bit in there also with the table removed (just my worthless 2 cents) now back to your regular programming :biggrin:


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## Video_man

bollie7 said:


> Without having one in front of me I can't think of anything else. Do you have a dissassembly procedure from phase2? It will probbaly be something really simple, when you find it.
> best of luck with it.
> regards
> bollie7



Thanks much, Bollie7, I have the owner's manual and parts list, no repair information.  I guess if I could get a repair manual, if it exists at all, I would not be in this fix....!  When I was much younger, I took apart the coaster brakes on my bicycle, and spent an entire summer trying to figure out how to re-assemble them....the man at the Western Auto store told me how, and it was simple when you knew the tricks.  I learned from that not to mess with anything I don't have a service manual --- or a helpful mentor who has been there before --- to guide me.....I'm leaving it be unless I turn up some hard information, which was my purpose here.....:biggrin:


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## dickr

They are not that difficult to disassemble and assemble. Remembering how it came apart is helpful. Just a little patience and confidence which I'm sure you have and you'll learn alot while doing it. Several years ago I took my 10" apart and reassembled and it still works. (amazing). Don't be in a hurry. I did the same thing with my bike, it took a while before I had brakes also. Yes it was a 2 wheeler and no it wasn't one with the giant front wheel. Good Luck. I'm sure you'll be glad you did.
dickr
PS On mine the screw rolls in and out for engaging and disengaging. I would be very surprised if anything is broken or bent.


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## Metalmann

Video_man said:


> Bought a beautiful new 8 inch Phase II rotary table, very pleased with it.  And then --- disaster --- one time as I was lifting the heavy and oily table, every so carefully, to the mill table ---- somehow it slipped from my grasp and fell to the concrete floor.  No apparent damage to the outside, the table rotates nicely and the dti shows it's still concentric ---BUT the worm will not longer disconnect (rotate out of engagement) so the table can be rotated by hand.
> 
> OK, the instructions warn not to even bump the worm, it's fragile.  And I can live without the manual capability.  But I hate it when things don't work right.  My attempts to open the table, working with the parts diagram, have come to naught.  It was a truck shipment and sending it to the US distributor for repair is impractical.
> 
> Questions:  Anybody know how to disassemble this table?  Is doing that likely to do more harm than good, i.e., mess up the table alignment?
> If I did disassemble it, assuming the worm is bent somehow, is it home-fixable?
> 
> At this point, I am leaving well-enough alone, but appreciate any thoughts.





Sorry, VM; I had to leave for a few days, and now that I see the drawing, I can't see any reason that the table doesn't pop right out. My memory is not quite as good as it used to be, but I'd say I'm of no help. That's one of those jobs you really need to have in front of you to see all the parts in relation to each other. I remember there was a clip somewhere, that made dis assembly a lot easier. I know I worked on 2 different brands, and neither was helpful to the other. I'd just take everything out, after sketching up the parts; it is probably a small clip/ring holding up the repair.


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## Video_man

Thanks, metalmann, I have been away also.  I've loosened everything on the table that I can find, and the table won't remove.  I believe the two table locks underneath need to rotate or unscrew, but they remain firmly in place and I am reluctant to apply any more force than I have done, not being sure that I'm doing the right thing and wanting to avoid damage.  But my instinct is that they are the key to this.  If I could get the table off, I could at least eyeball the worm to see if I could idenify the probem.  Until I can find some specific disassembly information, I'm going to leave it alone.   Thanks again to you and all who replied!


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## Video_man

Resurrecting this thread, as I finally got this sorted and thought someone else might use the info.  Disassemble:  remove the set screws that retain the two table locking levers.  Pull the levers out of their holes.  Turn the table locks 90 degrees to free up the table. Remove the adjusting collars under the table.  The table is a very precise fit, so a soft mallet may be needed to ease it out of the mounting hole.  Removing the eccentric is easy if undamaged, hard if it is (which was my problem). After removing the crank wheel and related hardware,  the key is part #30 on the diagram, a tapered plug that apparently removes end play from the eccentric.  It is retained by a set screw and otherwise just a push fit in its socket.  The end is centerdrilled, I'm guessing to allow you to tap it for a removal screw.  When the plug is removed, remove the set screw that limits the rotation of the  eccentric, and remove the eccentric.  Mine was damaged (dumb me, the table is real heavy and oily and I dropped it) . The damage to the table was a burr on the location plug and a tiny bump on the eccentric itself.  The fit is so close that that small amount was enough to lock the eccentric.  A short session with an ultra-fine jeweler file and some 800-grit polishing paper is all the eccentric needed.  Reassembly: 90wt gear oil for the worm (to midway up the sight glass.  It doesn't take much, don't over-fill)  The ball oilers need 20wt as the oil grooves in the table assembly are very small and heavier oil might not pass.  I found the oil recommendations in the instructions for another brand of table but I think they properly apply to this one as well.


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## GaryLa

I'm trying to fix a 221-306 that has a similar problem. In this case, the hand-wheel does not rotate without a tremendous amount of effort.

The eccentric rotates freely from lock-to-lock when the handle is turned. Once the eccentric hits the lock (set screw) the handle then is very difficult to turn, but the table does turn.

To remove the locking pin, I started to tap it and after a couple of turns the tap had such a good hold on it that it was removable. There are now 2 set screws which limit the eccentric's rotation.

At this point, I need 2 spanners to remove the jam nuts on the handle wheel shaft.

Has anyone else experienced this jammed hand-wheel issue?


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## tertiaryjim

Just took a look at mine.
Lock the rotation crank , loosen the top lever and  (rotate the whole crank and dial) to cam the worm out.
If the crank wont rotate, then it might be bent or otherwise jammed.


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## GaryLa

At this moment, I'm awaiting UPS for the delivery of 2 spanner wrenches. Hard to believe NAPA and other stores do not carry spanners.

Given that the table is 4-years-old and has never had a drop of oil in it, I believe the shaft is slightly corroded causing it to stick. The previous owner was located in Florida in an un-airconditioned shop.

However, it may also be that the lock-nut arrangement is simply too tight, or was loose and was inadvertently tightened by rotations of the hand-wheel.

I just wish Phase 2 would produce an on-line assembly/disassembly manual for this -- not just an old exploded-parts diagram. (My table has parts not shown on the diagram I found.)


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## frostheave

Found this thru google.  Might be helpful?  There are quite a few pictures.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/duncancycles/sets/72157632198748679/


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## GaryLa

I did find that, but thank you for posting a link to it.

I got the spanner wrenches and was still unable to release the locked nut. Three other guys tried for about an hour. I finally started grinding the outer-most nut -- it eventually gave up the ghost.

Absolutely amazing how tightly it was on. There was light corrosion on the thread in a few spots, but I think turning the nut might've wiped away some of the corrosion evidence.

So now I just have to buy a new nut, clean and oil the entire unit, and re-assemble... I just love having a week wasted for a simple, one-hour project !!


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## wrat

GaryLa said:


> I just love having a week wasted for a simple, one-hour project !!


Uhm..... and your point is what?
That's been my standard MO since forever.


Wrat


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## housedad

I bought a really decent condition 12: Phase II and took it apart to inspect it after it got home.   When reassembling it I had the exact same problem happen and I'll be durned if I can remember  the specifics.  All I can remember is that it was something about the Pin in the casting. at the back of the handle was a rotation stop for the worm engagement/disengagement..  The pin is basically like a set screw with a 1/4" or so long nose.   .  It was an adjustment, I believe.  the little pin is too far in.  First, in the hole is a standard setscrew used as a grub and stop screw.  Then after it is out, the other long nose set screw is deeper inside.  That is the adjustment I think.

To get that little 1/4" black  plug out that has a hole in it you just have to screw a socket head screw into and it just pulls out under tension after you remove the other pins and screws that hold it in.   The plug holds the entire worm shaft into place.   Then you can get the dang worm and handle out of the unit.  Remember to have already removed the table first as getting the worm out is hard if you don't.  

Also, remember that this thing is made to disengage the worm on demand by turning the entire eccentric. 

That is another worm mesh adjustment, is getting the eccentric in the right place for smooth motion.  If the eccentric is partially engaged it can cause a bad worm mesh and a freeze. it should be left in either fully close (meshed) or open (unmeshed) to keep the worm from getting galled or nicked.


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## housedad

All parts are available for the Phase II tables.  Just send Neil a email with your contact info and the part numbers and request a quote.  He will email it back.  neil gitter [ngitter@phase2plus.com]

A copy of the Phase II owners manual is available on my blog.    http://www.thebionicuniverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/HV-ROTARY-TABLES-RVD.pdf


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## GaryLa

Thanks very much for the docs and the email to Neil.

I ended up buying some thin-profile hex nuts because I could not find anyone who carried those spanner nuts.

I milled about 1/16" off the nuts to further reduce their thickness, then turned them on the lathe just just kiss off the hex corners. So now I have two hex nuts jammed together instead of the original spanner nuts.

After scotch brite, oil and adjusting, the table has been working very well.

The nuts are: Class 04 Steel Thin Hex Nut - DIN 439B, Zinc Plated, M18x1.5 Thread Size, 27mm Wide, 9mm High
McMaster Carr PN#: 90326A140
$0.65 USD each


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