# If you ever think you're a moron...



## dewbane (Sep 28, 2020)

Go ahead and grab a beverage, pull up a chair, and set the tone with this background music: 




After going back to work, and having a dreadful week, I finally got some shop time. Time to turn a gear to mate to that other one, and prove I know what I'm doing, so I can start making parts for real projects! Woo!

My target for the gear blank was 1.938", and by crikey, I hit 1.938" like a machining BOSS! I took the blank over to the mill, dialed in the setup, and went to work setting the sector arms for a 29-tooth gear. I marked the holes with a sharpie, and I even did a dry run for five holes where I grazed the blank at my zero setting just enough to leave a witness mark. Everything looked copacetic.

I dialed in my tooth depth like a BOSS, booyah! I cranked and turned and cranked and turned and cranked. Every tooth was emerging as the very vision of perfection, and everything was looking spectacular! Then I came back to my starting point, and I wasn't at the end of the run. Uh? Maybe you don't end up at your origin on an odd-number gear? I kept going, and I cut a beautiful 31 1/2 tooth 29-tooth gear.

Did the math and realized I set the sector arms to 10 holes instead of 11. It worked out perfectly to explain what happened. Okay, even though I was anal about the setup, I obviously wasn't anal enough. So noted.

The other problem on the agenda for today was my live center. It's very hard to bash out of the tailstock, and I think the fact that the taper ends in a threaded hole is a big clue why that is so. I decided to turn something to thread into that hole. After some faffing about (to borrow a brilliant term from our British friends), I concluded that this thing was an M11-1.5 thread.

I don't work in metric much, but no problem! It's M11, so I'll just turn the OD of the threaded bit to 11mm. I got it to 10.98mm or something that seemed close enough, considering this is going to thread in once stay there forever. I got out my handy dandy GearWrench tap and die set (yes, I know, these dies are for cleaning up threads, not cutting new threads, but they're what I have, and they work), I installed the correct die in a holder, and set everything up on the lathe for a die threading operation.

The way I do this is I run the Jacobs chuck jaws all the way down to a point, ram them up the butthole of the GearWrench ratcheting tap wrench, and I crank the die wrench handle while I take up the slack with the tailstock. When I get the threads started, I put a T-wrench in the chuck, and I work the two back and forth, taking advantage of the ratcheting action. I know I'm probably not supposed to manually drive the chuck with a wrench in one of the square bevel gear drive hole thingies, but it works really well, and I don't have a way of locking the spindle. I need to make a spindle lock one of these days, but that is not on the horizon anytime soon.

So anyway, click turn, click turn, click turn, I should be making great progress. At some point, the whole shebang just kind of falls apart, and I find I'm turning some weird conical taper on the end of the brass round bar I'm trying to thread. Wait, what?

I mean I know diddly squat about the units the entire rest of the planet uses. I just figured M11 = turn to 11mm. I try to figure out the correct outside diameter, because this obviously was off by miles. After some googling, I'm not really feeling that much more enlightened, but it looks like 10.968mm to 10.732mm ought to be good enough. I take a stab at whisking some millimeters off this diameter, and end up with 10.728mm, measured with my digital calipers, because I don't have no stinking micrometers in no stupid standard the entire planet uses. It's undersized, but, again, this is just going into the wrong end of a live center, so as long as it threads in at all...

It was at this point that I realized when I tried to thread the first time, I was... Wait for it....  Wait....

Keep waiting....

Wait a little longer......

I WAS TURNING THE DIE WRENCH BACKWARDS! Are you SERIOUS?! Am I SERIOUSLY *THAT* fricking stupid?!?!

Why yes, yes I am. The name, ladies and gentlemen and gender fluid whatevers, is DuMass.

So I set the wrench to turn the right way, cut some threads on an OD that was way undersized, and then I tried to thread my live center onto this thing.

It went right through, with zero resistance. The thread isn't remotely close to M11-1.5. I'm thinking now it's some flavor of 7/16" imperial thread after all.

That was the moment when I decided to take a break and come broadcast my shame for the world, so people could get a laugh out of my incompetence and misfortune.

I mean this really has been a comedy of errors. The way I look at it, errors where you can do an autopsy and figured out where you screwed the pooch are fine. It's the errors where you don't have a clue that are scary. I'm good.


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## Aukai (Sep 28, 2020)

I ain't gonna say nothing, I live in a glass house. Just gotta keep trying


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## Lo-Fi (Sep 28, 2020)

Thanks for sharing, made me chuckle!

You can't possibly have such a bad run next time!


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## dewbane (Sep 28, 2020)

Lo-Fi said:


> Thanks for sharing, made me chuckle!
> 
> You can't possibly have such a bad run next time!


Don't bet on it! After I made a new blank and set everything back up, instead of going one turn and 11 using sector arm A as a reference, I went one turn and 11 using sector arm B as a reference. Just a few teeth into the second gear, I already screwed the pooch. Caught it as soon as I cut the tooth, so there is that. Okay, I can take a hint, it's time to go to bed and try again tomorrow.


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## Aukai (Sep 28, 2020)

It's already tomorrow, so have a better day today


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## dewbane (Sep 28, 2020)

There is a small silver lining though. The 7/16"-14 or whatever plug I made the second time fit, and it solved the problem. I can bump the center out easily now.




I didn't get as close on the second blank, but I got close enough. Too bad I can't count.


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## dewbane (Sep 28, 2020)

Aukai said:


> It's already tomorrow, so have a better day today


In my world, it's still yesterday. I work night shift. People are always talking about "today" when it's still "tomorrow" from my frame of reference. If I haven't been to bed yet, it's still "today," even if my "today" started at your quitting time yesterday. With all that being said, I'm planning to crash early, get up early, and maybe enjoy a few hours of acting like a normal day walker.


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## mikey (Sep 28, 2020)

Mike, this was one of the funniest posts I've read in a very long time! I think we've all had days like this at one time or another but rarely have I ever seen a day like that written up with such humor and talent. Thanks, you just made my day!!


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## Aukai (Sep 28, 2020)

You, and Dave, it's still yesterday here.LOL


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## DavidR8 (Sep 28, 2020)

No matter if it’s yesterday, today, tonight or a week from Tuesday, this thread was a real grin for me. Thanks for sharing your tribulations!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MrCrankyface (Sep 28, 2020)

What a great post, and I can assure you're not alone in doing stuff like this.


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## brino (Sep 28, 2020)

@dewbane 

You were right, having that music play as I read your post was fitting.

Somewhere in there I had a mental image of you chasing a gear thru your shop, going out one door and then back in another door with the gear chasing you!

-brino


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## Boswell (Sep 28, 2020)

If I have learned anything over the last many years with my Mill and Lathe it is when to "Step away" and take a long break.  .  We to be honest it is something that I sometimes 're-learn'


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## higgite (Sep 28, 2020)

Great post! Started my day (or yesterday or whatever) off with a chuckle and that’s never a bad thing. But don't be so hard on yourself. Be proud that you didn’t finally hit the dimensions on the nose just to realize that you had cut a left hand thread. You didn't did you? 

Tom


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## kb58 (Sep 28, 2020)

I can see this thread turning into a oneupsmanship challenge:

Back during car fabrication (see sig) I was making several critical suspension parts. As they were made, they were set off to the side, and at some point I got distracted. Anyway, looked around for some cut-off scrap material to use for the last part, made it, and then noticed even though I'd made four of them, there were only three there. Yup... I used a finished part as the raw material to make the last one, and machined it from the other end, so I didn't notice. Sigh...


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## Dabbler (Sep 28, 2020)

Some days I can't get anything right...  it happens to all of us, I'm sure


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## pontiac428 (Sep 28, 2020)

But isn't the moment of realization so much easier when you've screwed up your own project compared the moment of realization on someone else's (customer's) job?


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## middle.road (Sep 29, 2020)

But, you got to crank handles, make chips, and learn something. That counts in numerous ways.   
Perfect story for a dreary weather day, a non-productive bleh kind of day.


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 29, 2020)

I don't recall the the specifics, but I had one of THOSE days as an apprentice. When I scrapped the third part in a row, I walked to the time-clock, punched out and left. The rest of the crew were taking bets on whether I'd come back. The following day when I arrived, Fred started in on me, asking why I had left. I calmly told him "Fred, when the world is turning to sh*t in your hands, you put it down. You don't squeeze it." Then I went back to work.


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## hotrats (Sep 30, 2020)

Ah, the joys of night shift! 20+ years on it myself. Those who have never worked it for long periods will never know. I had a LP record turntable, had a plastic cover that was not hinged. Bought hinges, glued to the plastic cover, marked record player base to drill for the hinge screws. Got 3 pilot holes drilled, then realized I had not turned the base around, so, now had 3 holes in the front side of the record player base...


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## dewbane (Oct 1, 2020)

MrWhoopee said:


> "Fred, when the world is turning to sh*t in your hands, you put it down. You don't squeeze it." Then I went back to work.


You, sir, are my new hero. That's a great way of putting it, and it's very true. Sometimes you just have to walk away and come back tomorrow.


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## Bi11Hudson (Oct 1, 2020)

dewbane said:


> In my world, it's still yesterday. I work night shift. People are always talking about "today" when it's still "tomorrow" from my frame of reference. If I haven't been to bed yet, it's still "today," even if my "today" started at your quitting time yesterday. With all that being said, I'm planning to crash early, get up early, and maybe enjoy a few hours of acting like a normal day walker.



Having worked nights for much of my adult life, I can be duly sympathetic. Add to that being on Guam, as a computer repairman, close to the International Date Line. As part of the "Off Island" crew, I flew all over Micronesia. Some of the sites only had a couple of phone lines off island. Part of my "territory" was west of the line, some east. I got through it by simply ignoring what the date was and going about my business. If it happened to be Saturday or Sunday at my home office I just sent a Telex and waited for a reply.

The only problem I really faced was when I came back Stateside, I crossed (felt like) a dozen time zones to California, losing (gaining??) a day in the air. Then another three to the deep south(Central). And then, a month or so later, some politician decided that the time would be an hour or so later. Or was it the other way? *Don't remember, don't care*. Went to work at a steel mill where crews rotated on a 7 on, 2-4 off, 4 week schedule. Time and date is whatever one was working at the time. The mill is what put beans on the table, the rest of the world could just go to He##.

.


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## Braeden P (Oct 13, 2020)

dewbane said:


> Go ahead and grab a beverage, pull up a chair, and set the tone with this background music:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i was drilling a hole in aluminium with a not so sharp drill bit it was smaller than a 1/4 (tap size for 1/4 20) for a 3 inch deep hole it clogged stalling my drill press (70s' old american iron) so i unplugged it then put it in the slowest speed and it was moving good old albrecht chuck never lets me down it self tightens sometimes so hard i grab some thin copper sheet and a pair if channel locks and a pipe wrench to get it undone.


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## mmcmdl (Oct 13, 2020)

Aukai said:


> You, and Dave, it's still yesterday here.LOL



Yes Aukai , us nightimers always start yesterday and always leave work tomorrow .


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## Papa Charlie (Oct 13, 2020)

Working 2nd and 3rd shift my thought was it isn't tomorrow until I have slept some. Kept the conversations easier.


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## Janderso (Oct 13, 2020)

Very enjoyable read. I am still smiling.
You guys sure make a lot of mistakes....


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## Bi11Hudson (Nov 9, 2020)

On re-reading this post, it drug up some old memories. Such as having to cross town at the end of an 11-7 shift at the steel mill. I was driving a Ford F-350 (dualie) dump truck with a 300-6 engine and low gearing. It sounded like the valves were coming through the hood when I was making 50 or 55 MPH. Speed isn't that important to me. _Brute force power is_. The rush hour traffic into town was running 65-ish, sometimes more. Birmingham is well known for its' poor freeway designs. I would get on the freeway on the west side of town and into a single lane that would get me across town. There was one lane change needed, but it was on the east side. Very little traffic going *out* of town at 7:30 AM. For about a mile, that one lane was the left lane of four. So I am running 50-ish in 65 MPH traffic while in the fast lane. The sour looks and gestures from drivers trying to get around me were quite amusing. "Hey guys, I'm going home to sleep. You shoulda left that warm bed a few minutes earlier if this is so frustrating." No matter how difficult my night had been, watching that inbound traffic always made me feel better.
.


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## tertiaryjim (Nov 9, 2020)

The original post is old but since I"m still finding really stupid mistakes, some from a couple years ago that I only now recognize.....
Nothing more needs be said.


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## dewbane (Nov 10, 2020)

Revisiting my own thread, I was fitting a new stock to an old Rossi 92, and I struggled to get the fasteners to bite on the other side when I was putting it all back together. I decided to make new fasteners 1/8" longer. So I fire up my lathe, set to work making this little slotted screw with the right contour and taper to seat into the gun, and the right threads. I did beautiful work, if I do say so myself. It was just beautiful.

Then I got out my never before used, brand new slitting saw, and I fired up my fancy schmancy new DEE ARE OH. Yeah baby, now that I have DRO I can put the slot in this thing precisely in the center, like a boss!

Yeah. Stupid arithmetic error. I cut the slot positive instead of negative whatever the measurement was. Off-center. Work spoiled. Yeah buddy, I are a machinery super stud alright.

Hey, on the bright side, I was so frustrated and annoyed that I was able to put more English on the original screws, and I got the gun back together. The new stock is awesome. I always wanted to see what I could do in the way of finishing a gun stock, and I did a good job. I did about 15 coats of Birchwood-Casey Tru-Oil, wet sanded at grits between 300 and 3000 as I progressed, then I rounded it out by hitting it with 0000 steel wool and Johnson's paste wax. It's beautiful, but honestly, it really wasn't worth all the trouble I put into it.


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## Papa Charlie (Nov 10, 2020)

Trust me, you are not alone in this. It seems as though it is those last few steps, after you have gone through all the previous ones flawlessly that the proverbial sh** hits the fan. Hard to accept at the moment, but remember all the things that you do right. This is also a good time to repeat the process and set into your mind the correct way to do it. Despite the frustration at the time, you will be thankful you did. 

It goes without saying, you are not alone in this.


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## Janderso (Nov 10, 2020)

Papa Charlie said:


> It goes without saying, you are not alone in this.


Boy Howdy!


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## middle.road (Nov 10, 2020)

(15) coats? wet sanded between coats? Polished to perfection? 3000 grit?
Might there be pictures? 
It didn't happen without pictures.   
I for one would like to see it.



dewbane said:


> Revisiting my own thread, I was fitting a new stock to an old Rossi 92, and I struggled to get the fasteners to bite on the other side when I was putting it all back together. I decided to make new fasteners 1/8" longer. So I fire up my lathe, set to work making this little slotted screw with the right contour and taper to seat into the gun, and the right threads. I did beautiful work, if I do say so myself. It was just beautiful.
> 
> Then I got out my never before used, brand new slitting saw, and I fired up my fancy schmancy new DEE ARE OH. Yeah baby, now that I have DRO I can put the slot in this thing precisely in the center, like a boss!
> 
> ...


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## NCjeeper (Nov 10, 2020)

Bi11Hudson said:


> No matter how difficult my night had been, watching that inbound traffic always made me feel better.


Same here when I worked night shift.


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## kb58 (Nov 10, 2020)

In my younger days, I, an electrical engineer, was allowed to use the machine shop after-hours for my own project. I learned that using a "stomp" shear may have gotten its name because of what happens when you stomp down on it with one foot—forgetting to move your other foot out of the way. That hurt.

I learned what happens when cutting aluminum stock on a cold saw, setting the material too far out such that the blade lifts it...

Then there was the time that I used the metal-bending brake to make a box. Bent one side, then to make the opposite side, had to slide it in from the back and did the second bend. And there it was, now trapped in the brake, for all to see, and it had to be disassembled to get it out. That was nice of them, they could have just cut the panel instead.

In hindsight, I think they let me in there for their own amusement. All joking aside, I fondly remember those guys, now long departed, for everything they taught me. I felt a great sense of, what, brotherhood in there, that they knew that they were passing on the trade to another generation, even though I wasn't going to be a machinist, those lessons did stick. I can still see their faces even now.


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## Papa Charlie (Nov 10, 2020)

kb58 said:


> In my younger days, I, an electrical engineer, was allowed to use the machine shop after-hours for my own project. I learned that using a "stomp" shear may have gotten its name because of what happens when you stomp down on it with one foot—forgetting to move your other foot out of the way. That hurt.
> 
> I learned what happens when cutting aluminum stock on a cold saw, setting the material too far out such that the blade lifts it...
> 
> ...



I have experienced that type of brotherhood before in shops. Sadly, people often move on and it is rare to have that perfect team stay together for any long period of time. But I miss it none the same.

Oh, and as for some of your moments in the shop, we all make those kind of mistakes at one time or another. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. For the shops I worked in, we rarely had the perfect machine for those special applications. So we made equipment do things they were not designed, nor ever intended to do, work. That and having the same issue working from home, I have learned to do things without the proper tool or to make the tool to get it done. Working in Field Service on large industrial equipment, you find that creativity is essential to everyday life.

I bet you learned some lessons from you experiences in the shop that you applied to many other aspects of your life.


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