# Clausing 8520/8530 Tramming



## JPigg55

Anyone with a 8520/8530 come up with a good mod/way to tram your mill ?
Was re-tramming mine yesterday and was bit of a pain.
Eyeball it, measure, tap tap tap, re-measure, tap tap tap, re-measure. Dang !!! too far !!! Tap tap tap....
I was thinking some kind of adjustment screw mounted to the over-arm for fine adjustment and maybe a mounted protractor for initial gross adjust would make tramming much easier.
Thought I'd ask if anyone here has come up with a good design.


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## the gentleman

Put a square against the quill and check for light between . . . tap , tap and you are done.


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## Bill Gruby

Many moons ago I made this gage to Tram my 8520. In Tram in just a few minutes. The white nylon piece is the master for zero on both gages.

"Billy G"


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## JPigg55

Interesting Bill, looks a lot like the Pro Tram rig (http://www.edgetechnologyproducts.com/pro-tram-system/).
I was more looking for something toclamp on the over-arm that the head and motor mount to that would allow for making small adjustments while tramming the head.
Figure it could help hold things in place while tightening down the over-arm as well.
Was trying to figure a way to integrate a protractor for making initial gross adjust for zero tram or off angles while angling the head.
I've got am idea how to make one, just have to get the material to do it and the time to make it.


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## wa5cab

Use a gauge of the style of the one that Bill showed and be done with it.  If you have a machine which will also nod (like a BP), it handles that as well.


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## Terrywerm

I agree with Bill and Robert. I do not yet have my tram gauge built, but I have the aluminum stock for the beam, and some stainless to use for the shank, as well as two dial indicators purchased just for this project.   Guess what I am going to work on this weekend???


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## JPigg55

Bill Gruby said:


> Many moons ago I made this gage to Tram my 8520. In Tram in just a few minutes. The white nylon piece is the master for zero on both gages.


 
Hey Billy G, how's the master zero nylon piece work ?


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## Big Bob

To the original issue, any ideas on some sort of lever or mechanism we can make for fine adjustment rotating the head while tramming with indicator on spindle to table?


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## tweinke

So what you are looking for is like what they do on the G0704 mills, the little blocks with set screws to fine tune/set stop the head?


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## Big Bob

Probably since I have not seen the Grizzly setup. Also some way to rough turn the head with some sort of lever attachment rather than just hold the spindle to try to turn when bolts are tightened some.


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## wa5cab

I've often wondered why none of the knee mills that I've ever seen have something like a light duty worm and pinion arrangement for that task.


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## 34_40

I've been waiting with baited breath for someone to show the setup of the G0704...  I've googled it but haven't found a great picture with detail. 

I'm also real curious about the nylon piece, the master for zero, hopefully Billy G sees this and can explain..

I also have a piece of aluminum to build a tram,  need to get a couple indicators and then....  of course... make some time!


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## 34_40

I finally did copy Bill G's tram tool.  After some "practice" in using it,  I can dial in the head to a half thou pretty easily and have confidence that it's now "right".


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## Bill Gruby

The nylon master is simply a 1 1/4 OD, 1 1/2 long with a 3/4 hole in it with a flat bottom 1 deep. with the master held against the bottom of the bar move both gages back in the mount and push them down till you get 1/2 revolution of the needle. Do that to both gages and they are zeroed, tighten the set screw and you are done zeroing the tramming tool.

The most difficult part of making the tool is pressing the shaft absolutely straight into the bar. Final accuracy demands it.

 "Billy G"


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## calstar

Bill Gruby said:


> .......The most difficult part of making the tool is pressing the shaft absolutely straight into the bar. Final accuracy demands it.
> 
> "Billy G"



How did you accomplish this, use an end miil  and ream, then press? Use a 4 jaw on the lathe, drill/ream/press?  Just thought of something; since its a small piece of flat stock heat it with a heat gun, end mill when still hot, when cool it  shrinks  for a good press fit without reaming, thoughts?

thanks, Brian


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## 34_40

I used a undersized reamer in the drill press and then bored to final size on the lathe with a 4 jaw.
If I had the correct size reamer, I could've skipped the final boring.


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## Bill Gruby

Did mine the same as 34_40 Brian.

 "Bi;;y G"


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## Terrywerm

One other thing to note about pressing the shaft if it ends up a tiny bit crooked: You can always chuck up the shaft in the lathe, then take a skim cut on the bottom of the bar to make it square with the shaft. Of course this assumes that you have a good chuck on your lathe so that the shaft is running straight and true.


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## Brento

I wanted to revive this real quick. I have an 8530 that i will be tramming tmr. I was curious if that if you are off a little in the Y plane of the plane how do you adjust the tilt? I obviously know how to adjust the X with the tilt of the head.


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## JPigg55

I think the only way to adjust the Y-axis tram is to shim between the over-arm plate and the base.


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## 34_40

JPigg55 said:


> I think the only way to adjust the Y-axis tram is to shim between the over-arm plate and the base.


Yes, that's the only way.


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## wa5cab

Yes, that is the only way that I know of.  Note that an engine hoist will make this go quicker.  I don't have a Clausing manual handy to to look at how that joint is held together but most of the possible ways to do it will require multiple shim thicknesses .  For example, if the joint is made up from 4 bolts or studs in the flanges and if the bolts are front, rear, left and right, and the error is front low, left and right OK, then you will need one shim in front of thickness X and two for left and right of thickness X/2.  For measuring for a front-to-back  tilt assuming that you are using a standard dual-gauge tramming tool, first adjust the tilt and then notate the spindle 90 degrees CW or CCW to measure nod.


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## Brento

I am definitely doing the tilt bc i have moved the head in and out for checking my travel when i placed the mill.

on a side note dies it matter if a mill is level or not?


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## Alcap

Would loose gibs or wear on the knee cause  misalignment?


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## 34_40

During the measurements the table is stationary,  and you are comparing one side of the table to the other, being high or low.  In both the X & Y axis.   If you completed the measures and any tram adjustments and then "tighten up" the gib screws,  it could possibly change your readings. If you did make any change, you should re-do / verify the tram,,..


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## Brento

Gib wcrews are tight and dont need to change the tightness. The table travers pretty solid so no need for adjustment


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## Aaron_W

Have you actually found that you are out of tram on the Y? Considering that the Y axis travel is only 5" you would have to be pretty out of whack to notice. I usually leave mine set up with the spindle on the center of the Y axis, which allows me to use the full 5" of travel in one direction or 2-1/2" in and out depending on need. On mine there was no detectable movement of the indicator moving the table in and out (Y) and by centering it I cut that undetectable deviation in half.

With a little practice I have been able to get the X down to less than .0005" over the whole 15".


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## Brento

Im checking it tmr but its been a while since ive trammed a mill and the last one was a Lagun so i could tram both. Im not as familiar with this style mill. I am just starting it up.


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## gard

I have posted this on other sites so my apologies if you have seen it before but this is the first site I have run across specific to Clausing.
Following is a description of some tips and improvements for tramming a Clausing 8520 mill. This may work for other similar ones like grizzly G0696 round ram head mil or perhaps A1S mill-Drill units like HF 40939. 

I found it most important to have the clamp bolts as tight as possible when adjusting the head, this reduces movement when it is finally clamped tight. I chucked up a drill rod and adjusted the clamping bolts (one at a time) to the point where I could just barely tilt it by hand then marked the bolts. At this point I found I could move the head with a long wood stick, prying the extended quill or motor mount against the mill column. This seemed a little more repeatable than tapping on the head with a plastic mallet. 
There are lots of recommendations on the web for how to measure Tram, I used a DTI held in a collet and rotated the quill between 2 different 123 blocks. Start with the indicator just barely contacting the lower block, carefully rotate to the other block and move the head so the needle moves 1/2 way back to zero.  It only took a couple of iterations to get the same reading on both blocks. I find it works best to tighten up the back clamp bolt first, then front. The DTI does still move a little as the clamp bolt is tightened so there might be some trial and error.

I decided to make a fine adjustment attachment for the mill. After a couple of quick calculations, I started with 1.125 shaft (actually annealed torsion spring from an old Astro van) and 2 ea 0.25" thick plates. I welded together then bored the 2.995 holes to fit the mill ram shaft. This took awhile, probably would have been quicker to grind a treepanning bit? I have used hole saws but they are pretty slow also. Even cutting 
out most of the metal with a cutout wheel or torch might of been faster.



Next I welded on the other parts and fit a couple of 10-32 adjusting screws and sawed the assembly in half vertically. Probably should paint it but can't wait to try it out.



A little adjustment and it fits on the mill perfectly


The opposing adjustment screws made it very easy to adjust the tram. The adjustment screws are 6 in below the ram and offset from the center of the vertical bars by 2 inches. The thumb screws snug up but do not flex the assembly too much. If both screws are left snug there is little change in the tram as the ram clamp bolts are tightened.  The entire tramming process took about 5 minutes not including photographs.
The entire assembly can be loosened and moved with one nut on the top (same nuts used in the mill table clamping kit). It can be easily removed or moved to the front of the column if more ram adjustment is needed.

There are a couple other things that can be checked. The above tram checks that the spindle is perpendicular to the table surface in one direction, it can also be checked front to back (nodding) but there is no easy adjustment on this mill (short of shimming or scraping). 
The parallelism between the table top and bottom dovetails can next be checked by setting the indicator on the table (or a parallel block) and cranking the table in X and Y.  

Deflection of the mill under load can be checked by using a fly cutter or large face mill and fine adjusting tram by trial and error to get the desired cross hatch pattern. If the pattern changes depending on cutting load or direction it suggests some deflection in the machine frame or spindle.

For years I have gone to every contortion possible to avoid changing the head because it was such a pain to get it trammed back in. I wish I had made something like this long ago.  This tool only works when the overarm is reasonably parallel to the Y axis so if I need to rotate the top of the column I will set the overarm length and tram first, slide the adjustment tool off then rotate the top of the column. I kind of like the idea it does not require any modifications to the mill itself.

I am sure many others have done something similar but a search did not find any, (probably a good indication of my poor search skills) so I figured I would share.


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## woodchucker

Brento said:


> I am definitely doing the tilt bc i have moved the head in and out for checking my travel when i placed the mill.
> 
> on a side note dies it matter if a mill is level or not?


no it does not. 
as asked by someone else, do you have your knee gib tight? Have you tightened the locks?

I used a brass shim under my overarm mating to the column.

Have you put an indicator attached to the table, and a precision rod in a collet; raised and lowered the table, reading the bar. Then turn the rod 180 rinse repeat to make sure the rod is ok... and not loaded in the collet at an angle... if the rod does not read the same, then you need to reset and get the rod to read the same on both sides. Then check again...
This will help determine whether the problem is the knee or head.


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