# First things first with a new lathe?



## Tired&Retired

Been using a little Emco-Maier Compact 5 for the odd times I needed a lathe to do something, which honestly was small work and the Compact 5 did all I needed to do. I guess I have had it maybe 15 years or so, most of the time of which it has just been getting dusty. But recently I wanted to do a few things to spruce up the shop press I bought, and found that the Compact 5 choked on what I tried to get it to do.  So recently I decided I just wanted to get something a bit bigger, but odds are I won't really need anything MUCH bigger.

So I noticed some Chinesium lathes being offered at reasonable prices that seemed to have pretty decent on-paper specs.  1.5" through the spindle, 1.5 horsepower motor, 8.7"x 23.6" bed, and the usual extra gears AND a steady rest and follow rest. Actually bigger than I really need, but probably not TOO big.  Oh yeah, it only weighs 160 lbs soaking wet, so my wife and I can manhandle it into place without killing ourselves. We are both getting up there in age, so I'm not keen on over estimating mine and her's failing strength. I will probably remove most of what I can before we do most of the moving anyway, so that will help even more.

Watched a lot of videos and read accounts of what to expect with a new Chinese lathe.  So I expect I will be taking it apart and cleaning everything, checking for burrs and machine marks, and possibly touching up any sliding surfaces with find grit stones to smooth them out.  May just go ahead and replace the spindle bearings right away, since that seems to be what most people recommend.

So my question is, what should I look for that could be a problem that would mean just rejecting the lathe completely as being unacceptable? Things that would mean that even for my limited requirements of tolerances and accuracy would mean a brick wall for realistic use? Things I should check BEFORE taking it apart, and things I should look for WHEN taking it apart.

I plan on buying some accessories as needed if the machine passes muster.  But honestly, if I use this even a couple of dozen times before I kick the bucket, I'll be surprised.  But I sure do like HAVING tools......  

Appreciate any advice. But please don't waste your time trying to convince me I should get a larger lathe.  They are all too big for where I want to put it, and too heavy for me to be able to handle. This one I selected is just about at the top of the upper limits anyway.


----------



## 38super

From a Shop Task stand point, casting sand and residual swarf were found during cleaning.  Degreased and painted all internal surfaces to prevent further casting sand migration.  Lube the ways constantly, chinese cast iron came from detroit engine blocks and what ever else would melt.


----------



## benmychree

38super said:


> From a Shop Task stand point, casting sand and residual swarf were found during cleaning.  Degreased and painted all internal surfaces to prevent further casting sand migration.  Lube the ways constantly, chinese cast iron came from detroit engine blocks and what ever else would melt.


Just hope that the cast iron did not come from "The Great Leap Forward" era with backyard blast furnaces!


----------



## 38super

Ah, machinable slag with the additional benefit of porosity for oil retention.


----------



## Tired&Retired

benmychree said:


> Just hope that the cast iron did not come from "The Great Leap Forward" era with backyard blast furnaces!



What are the chances of that with a *new* lathe?  How long ago was that "era"?


----------



## Nogoingback

About two weeks ago...


----------



## markba633csi

The Emco-Maier lathes were far better made than most of the Asia machines; you may be disappointed, dare I say a little shocked at the poor quality control and finish.  Apparently the Taiwan-made machines are a step up from the mainland China products. 
Trivia: Sears Roebuck sold a rebranded version of the Emco Compact 8 back in the late 70s.  If you are lucky enough to find one, grab it.  Same fine quality as your 5 but bigger
-Mark


----------



## Tired&Retired

Might wind up being a moot point anyway. That advertised "free shipping" is turning out that the seller wants $150 for the residential delivery. I told him that we always have the delivery truck meet us at the local Walmart parking lot and back the pickup truck to their back door to slide the delivery into the bed. Worst comes to worst I could just pick it up at the truck depot. Those big trucks can't really get into my driveway anyway, and even just barely will fit down our road to even get to my driveway. Haven't heard back from him, so ball is in his court now.  If he lets too much time pass by without a response I will just assume he isn't interested and I will cancel the order and look elsewhere.

As for the presumed lack of quality, no real big deal for me. I'm not ever going to do any work for anyone else, and not likely that any real precision would be needed for the things I am likely to use it for. So as long as anything I do is not grossly eyeball out of spec, that should be OK for my needs.

I am not a machinist by any stretch of an active imagination, and at this late stage of my life, have no intention of even trying. This is a hobby toy for me, plain and simple.  My original question about things to check on the lathe have my personal specs (as it were) in mind.

When I was tinkering around with my Compact 5 trying to make some mods for my shop press, it was all I could do to coax that little lathe into working with that 1.5" stock I wanted to use. I thought the knurling was going to break the lathe before I was done. It sure didn't turn out how I wanted, but it will do. More than once the lathe just refused to do anything and just shut down in protest.

















Hence the desire for a bit larger and more robust tool to do these odd jobs I come up with some times.  Not worth the money for a high precision monster (to me) of a lathe, that would have to go into my garage, and subject my vehicles to possible flying parts and materials. Just something that "will do". 

So what I am looking for in this thread, are faults in the lathe when I get it that won't even make it qualify for my limited needs.  Which, quite honestly, might be nothing at all besides obvious things like it just not working when I flip the switch, cracks in the bedding, or smoke and fire.  

But I figured I would ask under the assumption that I don't know enough to know what I need to know.


----------



## 38super

Better to ask first.  Even larger lathes have their limit, nothing like a droning Richter 4.3 to get the neightbors excited (or the banshee screech).


----------



## markba633csi

Only a couple things that are real deal killers: we just had a member take delivery on a small lathe; the bed was cracked. We all piled on telling him to send it back, don't try to fix it. He finally got his credit card company involved and will get it resolved.
That, or a severe headstock problem like bent spindle and/or damaged bearings are the two real biggies. Most everything else can be fixed or dealt with.
-Mark


----------



## Tired&Retired

markba633csi said:


> Only a couple things that are real deal killers: we just had a member take delivery on a small lathe; the bed was cracked. We all piled on telling him to send it back, don't try to fix it. He finally got his credit card company involved and will get it resolved.
> That, or a severe headstock problem like bent spindle and/or damaged bearings are the two real biggies. Most everything else can be fixed or dealt with.
> -Mark



Yeah, I did read that thread about the cracked bed.  I would have sent it back, no doubt. I intend to thoroughly inspect the lathe when it comes in for such damage, so hopefully a crack would be visible and not covered over by filler and paint.  I would think a bend spindle or damaged bearings would be kind of obvious when I put the dial indicator on the chuck. Honestly, I'm thinking about replacing the bearings right off the bat anyway.  The tear down inspection, cleaning, honing time would be probably best to do that sort of thing anyway.  I find that I am actually looking forward to the tear down process, maybe even more than actually using it.  I like to see how things tick.  

I've read some accounts where some people claim that these "no brand name" lathes on Ebay are quality control rejects from orders from brand name buyers.  Thing is, I have never seen these 1.5" spindle hole lathers being sold by any name brand (at least selling in the USA market), so I am not sure how truthful such a rumor like this might be. Honestly had a number of companies I can think of been selling this model, I would have certainly chosen to buy from them instead of off of Ebay.  Here is the specific lathe I have ordered -> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Metal...417440?hash=item3da98a49e0:g:sGcAAOSwDBle~Aua Anyone here heard similar stories or validation that it's just not idle rumor?  Like I said, it has pretty nice looking specs and if it is a solid machine, should pretty much do everything I am going to need a lathe for.  So I HOPE this ends well.

I've had mostly good experiences through Ebay, but there have been some instances not so good, although not life ending. So I understand the aggravation risks invoved, and am willing to roll the dice.  Ebay seems a lot better about standing behind the buyer than they used to be years ago, plus I paid for this through PayPal using a credit card, so I think I'm pretty well covered if things go real sour. One thing it appears that Ebay has changed, bowing in deference to their Chinese customers, is that now they show where the PRODUCT is located, and not where the SELLER is located. I'm sure they were pressured by the Chinese to do such a thing.  Typically when I am looking for something, I set the filter to USA SELLERS ONLY. But when the seller only contacts you around midnight, you sort of know what timezone they are located within.

Anyway, looks like the seller is backing down on that $150 residential delivery thing.  I was going to stand my ground and cancel if he insisted on it, and honestly would have been OK either way. So we will see.  They have till the credit card bill becomes due to get it to me, otherwise I assume I have just been jerked around and react accordingly. So just waiting on tracking info right now.

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## jjtgrinder

I purchased a Little Machine Shop model 3540 lathe. I’m happy with it thus far.  It like all machines has pros and cons.
As to your concerns, I have had to do very little to it in the area of “fine tuning“ and cleaning of sand.  I did have to clean the usual storage/shipping grease off.  The only serious design flaw I have encountered is in the tailstock, which has a pin instead of a key to guide the quill.  I’m changing that.  The other thing is the machine is slightly under powered.  I’ve had bigger lathes in the past and I’m accustomed to more power from a back gear.  If it had a tumble reverse that could easily allow the operator to quickly reverse the leadscrew, that would be some nice icing on the cake.  Lead screw reversal is accomplished by simply moving a gear on the gear train.  The machine came very well adjusted and ready to use.  I made some test cuts to determine accuracy and the machine did very well.  I did the normal bedding and leveling of the lathe bed.  I bought a Grizzly G0765 lathe 8 months before the LMS 3540.  It was a real piece of junk.  Could never get it setup properly.


----------



## addertooth

Much like JJtGrinder, I have a LMS lathe. and paid a higher-than-eBay price for it.

What did I get for the price differential?
Local support.  A local inventory of spare/upgrade and replacement parts.  Factory installed Quick Change post, Digital Read out, Precision Ground as versus milled surfaces, larger chuck than what is normally found on lathes (in the size I ordered), and better hand wheels.  It is a well-known model which has many articles which covers upgrades and maintenance.

When it arrived, there were no casting voids, no cracks, no sand, and it only had a 4/10,000 of an inch taper over the length of a foot (without me tuning or doing any work other than levelling).  They had upgraded gears, brass Gibs and Tapered Bearings in stock; those parts were ordered at the same time as the lathe. Any Chinese manufactured lathe can be improved. The ball-bearing steady rest was also ordered, as I anticipate machining thin and soft material.  The brass-ended steady rest would scuff/scratch the soft ebonite material which will be periodically machined.

Of these criteria, having a Second Set of Eyes on quality control was important to me, as was a good inventory of spares and upgrade parts.
The lathe was being purchased for Years of use, as versus Months of use.  To be clear on this, other companies such as Precision Matthews (PM) also offers the same advantages as well.  I will likely go PM when it is time to purchase a Mill.


----------



## Tired&Retired

Well, the lathe is in Dothan, AL right now, with delivery planned for next week sometime. Of course, Hurricane Sally is going to gum things up a bit concerning the weather. Normally I would arrange to meet the delivery truck at the local Walmart parking lot and just slide the package from their truck into the bed of the pickup truck. But if it's raining like hell, I'm not much inclined to do that. I thought UPS Freight had a depot right in Tallahassee, but they are claiming that the depot there is not for freight service. Otherwise I would have it put there until the weather looked good enough to do a pickup. Delivery to the house is a problem because our road is just barely wide enough for a big rig to come on down it. Actually getting into our driveway is positively a NO-GO. So that means traffic on the road would be blocked for the duration of transferring the box from one vehicle to the other. And if it is raining, still the problem of dealing with a 183 lb box on rain slicked surfaces. Looks like the weather is going to complicate things, no matter what. Yeah, I know the lathe is going to be all boxed up and greased up, but I just don't like the thought of any tool getting rained on.

Once the lathe is on the pickup truck, the plan is to back it into the garage. The plan is to de-box the lathe right in the bed of the pickup truck and do the cleaning and inspection right there.  I figure it will be much easier to move in pieces while it is disassembled anyway.

So, I'm just not sure what is going to happen with the delivery angle.  I guess it will work out, regardless.

Speaking of Little Machine Shop, I have been talking with them off and on about accessories with this lathe. They seem very helpful and are willing to help me out with whatever I need. I have purchased accessories from them before for my Compact 5 lathe over the years. Unfortunately they don't offer a lathe that could meet my needs in a number of departments, otherwise I would have gladly purchased from them. Same goes for Precision Matthews. They have nice stuff, but too big and too heavy for what I want.

Quite honestly, I had given up the idea of upgrading my Compact 5 till I saw this one on Ebay I am now getting. I don't have space for anything much larger, and the weight is a real issue. I had to hire movers many moons ago to get my milling machine into my workroom. And there were a few moments where I thought the job was beyond them too. So I am working with self-imposed limits now.


----------



## matthewsx

I wouldn't let the rain stop you unless it will make getting into your truck bed dangerous. You're going to take it apart for cleaning anyway so any water that gets onto it will be a non-issue. A 183# box should almost be a one hander for most LTL truckers, just slide it in and throw a tarp over the box....

John


----------



## Tired&Retired

matthewsx said:


> I wouldn't let the rain stop you unless it will make getting into your truck bed dangerous. You're going to take it apart for cleaning anyway so any water that gets onto it will be a non-issue. A 183# box should almost be a one hander for most LTL truckers, just slide it in and throw a tarp over the box....
> 
> John



Yeah, getting in and out of the truck bed is actually the issue most on my mind.  The pickup truck does sit up pretty high, and the bumper would be rather slick when wet. Rain would make us hurry and that is when accidents can happen. The older I get the more I pay attention to things that could cause damages that won't heal as quickly as they used to. I think that is my grandfather's genes speaking, because us kids used to drive him crazy with the stunts he considered as being dangerous to us.

Well hopefully I will get a strong enough driver on the delivery truck that he can use both hands to slide the box onto the pickup truck and my wife and I can just stand back and applaud.  The wife and I are not as strong as we used to be when we were younger and I believe that 183 lbs between us would be a struggle. I would much rather underestimate our limits than to overestimate them. I am 70 years old and the wife is 65. I guess I have just gotten more cautious than I used to be too. I've already done enough dumb things in my life that I hope I have aged enough to have learned something from them.


----------



## Tired&Retired

Well, the lathe showed up today.  I'll go into more detail later, but suffice it to say that it went smoother than I thought it would. Real wrinkle is that one of the levers came loose from the carriage control knobs.  Normally no big deal, but there are a bunch of small parts involved that were laying in a bunch alongside the lever itself.  5 magnets, two springs, and two ball bearings. Unfortunately no drawing about how it should go back in dropped out along with it. *Anyone got any good idea about how this should go back in? * I haven't run the motor yet, but I did turn the chuck and move the carriage manually just a bit before realizing where that lever came from.

No other visible damage at all.  Well, a small paint ding on the edge of the drip shield, but they just had that flopping around loose inside the crate anyway.  Oh yeah, not sure why they put those pointer decals on the end of the knobs upside down like they did.


----------



## matthewsx

Happy to hear you got it delivered 

look for a manual from a similar sized Weiss lathe. They’re pretty generic.

John


----------



## Tired&Retired

matthewsx said:


> Happy to hear you got it delivered
> 
> look for a manual from a similar sized Weiss lathe. They’re pretty generic.
> 
> John



Thanks for the tip, but that didn't help me much, as the levers being used on those Weiss machines don't seem to be anything like the ones on mine.  What the heck are the magnets for? And why two springs and two ball bearings?  BTW, I did get a "manual" with this lathe, but no exploded views and no parts diagrams. Actually pretty poor xerox copy, if you ask me, and written in almost passable Chinglish.

Anyway, I may have some bigger fish to fry with this lathe. While looking at the photos I took when I brought it home, I spotted something odd near the carriage.  So I took the camera back out and moved the carriage away from that area.  Pics are attached as to what I found there.  

How serious is this damage?  Looks like perhaps there was a casting flaw there and someone took a grinder to it.  You can still see a casting flaw on the vertical surface of the way sliding surface.  I guess I could put a dial indicator on the carriage as I move it over this grind mark to see what happens, but damn...

Well, I've got 30 days to return it, if necessary.  And I paid by credit card via PayPal, so I can always dispute the charge, again, if necessary. With that in mind, I can live with the ways damage if it will be insignificant, and is really just cosmetic damage. The lever problem is surely something that is fixable, even if I have to resort to trial and error.  It's not like I have never done that before...


----------



## matthewsx

Hi Rich,

Sorry that there's some issues, I guess trial & error is the best plan if the seller doesn't have any better documentation. I would say the damage on the bed is going to be your call as buyer. First see if it makes any operational difference then decide if you can live with it if it doesn't. It's not like the cracked bed another member got and if the carriage doesn't ride on that area it might be better to not worry about it. Again, totally you call but in my experience Chinese sellers are more inclined to offer partial refunds than take stuff back. Maybe you can get enough to buy some tooling 

My guess with the lever is the ball bearing goes in first, you could always take the other one out and see how it's assembled.

John


----------



## Tired&Retired

matthewsx said:


> Hi Rich,
> 
> Sorry that there's some issues, I guess trial & error is the best plan if the seller doesn't have any better documentation. I would say the damage on the bed is going to be your call as buyer. First see if it makes any operational difference then decide if you can live with it if it doesn't. It's not like the cracked bed another member got and if the carriage doesn't ride on that area it might be better to not worry about it. Again, totally you call but in my experience Chinese sellers are more inclined to offer partial refunds than take stuff back. Maybe you can get enough to buy some tooling
> 
> My guess with the lever is the ball bearing goes in first, you could always take the other one out and see how it's assembled.
> 
> John



Thanks.  Yeah, I would think the ball bearing would go in first too, but why two of them?  Just looks like an awful lot of "stuff" to be falling out of one lever that came loose, doesn't it? And what the heck are there magnets there for?  Just makes me leery, thinking I am missing something important. Or perhaps some of those parts fell out of somewhere else that I haven't looked yet. I remember working in my dad's service station on my '66 GTO many moons ago, and one of the mechanics there would throw extra bolts into the pile I was accumulating when I wasn't looking. Drove me nuts the first time it happened and I had everything together with all those extra loose bolts. Guess I got dain bramaged as a result.

Yeah, I did read that thread about that cracked bed.  When I opened the box to peak inside, as best I could, that was the first thing I looked for.  Then when I got home, I took apart the crate and took photos of nearly everything so I could look things over closely by blowing up the images.

As for damage on the bad ways, I've been looking over videos of others disassembling similar lathes, and it doesn't look to me that riding surfaces would be affected.  I guess I could always JB Weld it and then hone it smooth if it bothers me. I'm planning on cleaning and honing all riding surfaces anyway. Not sure how well JB Weld takes to slicking up, though.

But I am still waiting to hear back from the seller. Should be prime business hours in China right about now. The guy has been real good about getting back to me, so we will see.


----------



## addertooth

I am sorry this has happened to you.  There are few things worst than sending a serious chunk of money to get something, and receive it broken.


----------



## Tired&Retired

I need to take a REAL close look at that lever thing.  I am wracking my brain trying to think of why just a lever attached to a knob would be that complicated with springs ball bearings and magnets and I can't come up with anything.  So I'm thinking those small parts HAD to come from somewhere else.  Just doesn't make sense to me. I'm wondering if the magnets came from the speed sensor pickup on the spindle. Where else would there be small magnets in a lathe?  I just need to take a REAL close look at it when I get over to the garage.  Got a hurricane not too far away spitting out rain storms and threatening tornadoes.

Anyway, the seller did contact me and wants me to take video of the problems.  Not sure what a video would show that my static images can't. But I think that is just SOP for Chinese companies.


----------



## Tired&Retired

Used an inspection mirror and looked up into the hole that the lever came out of in the carriage control knob, and it is just a drilled and tapped hole, as best I can tell. Nothing special.  So I just screwed the lever back in.  I was able to shift the carriage speed fine by hand moving the spindle as needed.  And as best I can tell, those loose magnets are identical to the magnets on the back of the spindle that drive the speed sensor. Maybe the same person who put those stick on knob decals upside down also accidentally dropped them into the crate.   Just a darn malicious coincidence that they all stuck together looking like a unit in the bottom of the crate, I guess.

Couldn't do a whole lot except used the shop hoist to lift up the lathe on the wooden base of the crate and relocate it to the tailgate of my wife's truck so I could get to it and work on it easier.  But with bands of the hurricane knocking out power for a while and the rain beating on the roof of the garage, I had enough of that for one day.  Tried to get video of the lathe running, but the rain was drumming on the roof so hard I couldn't hear a thing from the lathe itself. One of the drawbacks of a metal garage, I guess.  Maybe things will be better tomorrow.


----------



## tq60

Focus on refund as things falling off are no good and grinding on ways not acceptable.

Normal place would have tossed it back into the "in" port of the foundry and made another one.

The may offer settlement as too expensive to ship but it big shows on and clearly explain that the grinding on the ways is instant failure that requires noting other that eyeball to notice and it should have never been presented for sale.

Parts falling off can be blamed on the shipper but properly packaged would avoid that, but they still will try to blame issue on shipper.

Focus on ways as number 1 QUALITY issue for reject, then the rest as secondary but still reason for rejection.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


----------



## mikey

tq60 said:


> Focus on ways as number 1 QUALITY issue for reject, then the rest as secondary but still reason for rejection.



I have to agree. No way would I accept a NEW lathe with the ways ground down like that. That is a casting defect that is THEIR problem, not yours.


----------



## Tired&Retired

mikey said:


> I have to agree. No way would I accept a NEW lathe with the ways ground down like that. That is a casting defect that is THEIR problem, not yours.



So, are you saying that that grind area will negatively affect the operation of the lathe? I didn't see any sliding areas that would be directly affected, but heck, I am willing to listen to advice from people who know a whole lot more about this stuff than I do.

One other thing I discovered today is that the carriage control for direction of the carriage independent of the spindle direction doesn't work. Or at least I couldn't come up with the curse words  to do the trick.  Feels like the control is bound up, which I am guessing might be fixable. Especially since it is stuck in the "REVERSE" position, and the carriage is certainly moving in the "FORWARD" direction.  Not that big of a deal to me, since I don't know if I would ever actually use it, but it IS something else that doesn't work like it is supposed to.

I'll see what the seller says. I told him that I believe this is a factory reject and it should have been scrapped at the factory.  This thing wasn't exactly cheap for a smallish hobby lathe, at $1300, but I guess I hoped I was at least going to get something worth working with.


----------



## mikey

A new lathe should have precision ground ways that are not damaged. That is just crappy quality control and should not have made it out of the factory. Doesn't matter whether or not it affects function; it is unacceptable in a new lathe. You paid over a thousand dollars for that lathe and, at least for me, I would send it back at their expense.


----------



## tq60

Tired&Retired said:


> So, are you saying that that grind area will negatively affect the operation of the lathe? I didn't see any sliding areas that would be directly affected, but heck, I am willing to listen to advice from people who know a whole lot more about this stuff than I do.
> 
> One other thing I discovered today is that the carriage control for direction of the carriage independent of the spindle direction doesn't work. Or at least I couldn't come up with the curse words to do the trick. Feels like the control is bound up, which I am guessing might be fixable. Especially since it is stuck in the "REVERSE" position, and the carriage is certainly moving in the "FORWARD" direction. Not that big of a deal to me, since I don't know if I would ever actually use it, but it IS something else that doesn't work like it is supposed to.
> 
> I'll see what the seller says. I told him that I believe this is a factory reject and it should have been scrapped at the factory. This thing wasn't exactly cheap for a smallish hobby lathe, at $1300, but I guess I hoped I was at least going to get something worth working with.


You have a good heart...stop futzing with this as you will not be happy.

Insist on full refund and THEY PICK IT UP!

This is too heavy to try to box and take to ship.

The seller can arrange for a truck to come and get it.

Do not settle and get and save any document stating refund and if they let you dispose of it then tinker but keep paperwork.

Had an issue with laptop years ago, sent back and forth and they sued us for lost sale.

Judge tossed it but we had to drive 200 miles to court.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


----------



## matthewsx

The unfortunate thing is the old mechanism eBay put into place to keep people from unloading junk just doesn't work anymore. They will probably just change seller names and keep on going.

Yes you deserve a working and defect free machine for your money, in China they may not have it but here in the US every product comes with an implied warranty of merchantability  that should cover any defective good which your purchase certainly falls under.

If you want your money back file a claim with eBay or PayPal right away. If you claim through PayPal, eBay won't do anything and vise versa. The seller will ask for videos, pictures, more videos, more pictures etc. but this is a stalling tactic. Ultimately they will try to settle with you for a partial refund because they don't want to take it back, EVER!!!!

That's where I was going in my earlier post, you can hold out for a full refund, or decide how much you will accept for an offer. Their cost was probably half what you paid so that's what they're going to want but if you hold out for a full refund you might get 3/4 of your money back. 

Everything depends on what works for you, if you know it's gonna bug you every time you look at it either settle for more than you think you can sell it for or figure out how to send it back at their expense for a full refund. Either way it's more of a hassle than you deserve but unfortunately it's the chance you take buying from sellers who don't really care about anything besides getting your money.

We have a great forum sponsor who would be glad to sell you a product they stand behind. More money yes but less heartburn....

John


----------



## matthewsx

Oh, and if they don't offer to make it right quickly post up the sellers eBay name so others will know.

John


----------



## Stockyj

If you can tolerate the grind mark and get a part refund it may best to get an easier closure. As long as the grind area is not a crack repair are there any marks on the inside surface. The ways should still run true so it shouldn't affect the function just visual


----------



## Tired&Retired

Thanks for the thoughts, guys. I am still in negotiations with the seller, so I'll just see how it goes.  I made it pretty plain that I wasn't happy with getting a factory rejected unit.

In the meantime, since it is sitting on the tailgate of my wife's truck in the garage, I've just been playing around checking things out on it to see what else might be wrong with it. So I put an indicator dial on the chuck, and then put a small piece of brass stock in the chuck jaws to see what sort of runout it had. Then after that, wanted to see if there are any odd or disconcerting noises coming from the spindle when run up to speed.  I found that a lot of noise comes from the change gears after I just pulled them away from the spindle. All in all, it didn't do too bad.  Not sure if this embeds YouTube videos or is just a raw link.


----------



## Tired&Retired

matthewsx said:


> The unfortunate thing is the old mechanism eBay put into place to keep people from unloading junk just doesn't work anymore. They will probably just change seller names and keep on going.
> 
> Yes you deserve a working and defect free machine for your money, in China they may not have it but here in the US every product comes with an implied warranty of merchantability  that should cover any defective good which your purchase certainly falls under.
> 
> If you want your money back file a claim with eBay or PayPal right away. If you claim through PayPal, eBay won't do anything and vise versa. The seller will ask for videos, pictures, more videos, more pictures etc. but this is a stalling tactic. Ultimately they will try to settle with you for a partial refund because they don't want to take it back, EVER!!!!
> 
> That's where I was going in my earlier post, you can hold out for a full refund, or decide how much you will accept for an offer. Their cost was probably half what you paid so that's what they're going to want but if you hold out for a full refund you might get 3/4 of your money back.
> 
> Everything depends on what works for you, if you know it's gonna bug you every time you look at it either settle for more than you think you can sell it for or figure out how to send it back at their expense for a full refund. Either way it's more of a hassle than you deserve but unfortunately it's the chance you take buying from sellers who don't really care about anything besides getting your money.
> 
> We have a great forum sponsor who would be glad to sell you a product they stand behind. More money yes but less heartburn....
> 
> John



Yeah, I hear that.  I need to see how things go talking to the buyer.  And I need to keep my own expectations in the forefront too. I bought this to make me happy.  Will I be happy with it? Well, I just dunno.

I fully intended to take it apart, learning as I go, so I pretty much expected problems, but problems that were fixable.  The manual says the spindle has taper roller bearings on it, so that surprised me, as I was expecting to have to replace the roller bearings like I had seen in all the videos I have watched about this sort of mini lathe. I did put a dial indicator on the carriage as I ran it up and down the bed, and as best I can tell, the grind scar is cosmetic.  But still, as you asked, will it bug me every time I see it?  It IS right out there front and center.  Again, I dunno.

I have already sent photos to the seller, and of course he asked for a video too. So heck, I have the equipment and photo/video is actually one of my minor hobbies anyway, so I generated a quick one for him showing the problems.  Below is what I pointed him to.






FYI, I played around with those carriage controls quite a bit today, and those controls are just difficult to work with. Not very useful if that is the way they are supposed to be. Maybe I need to be Hercules to work them?  Nothing in the manual about how to correctly use them, and besides the sticker around them about the 200 rpm, not a clue about how to actually get them to do what they are supposed to do.  I like the idea of being able to change the speed of travel of the carriage independent of the spindle speed on the fly, but not sure this will actually work.  I think there is a problem in the gears or a shift lever of some sort to move the gears, but that would require taking the headstock apart (I think) just to take a look. Something I am not willing to do if this might actually go back for a refund.  So I told the seller that I consider the carriage controls as being DOA BROKEN on this unit. Maybe it is easily fixable, maybe it is not. As it is now, I have it working at what I consider a STATIC setting of running in the correct direction, with the "middle" speed, which is supposed to be used for threading. The question, of course, is whether I will be willing to take the chance and keep this thing if this function can't be fixed.  Heck, there are always design flaws too.

BTW, what is considered "forward" and "backward" on the carriage travel on a lathe?  My thoughts were that "forward" would be towards the chuck, and "backward" would be away from the chuck.  It seems to be the opposite on that lever control the very few times I could get it to work.

Believe me I looked at every small lathe I could find and nothing came close to all the specs this unit had that I found attractive.  Particularly the weight when considering the the other specs included. I just don't want something bigger and heavier.  It would mean too much in the way of allocating space and effort to move it, which I just don't have available. The 11x27 series of lathes seem mighty attractive, but that approx. 400 to 500 lbs of weight to deal with puts it out of my reach. Not to mention about two to three times more expensive than this one I just got.

I expect the seller to drag his feet and come up with excuses about why he can't get an answer from "someone else".  So we will see.  Honestly, I can live without this lathe, and just put the Compact 5 back on the worktable. It's done most of what I have needed so far.  If this doesn't work out somewhat satisfactorily, I believe this will be my last attempt to get another lathe.

Thanks.


----------



## brino

Just browsing the exploded view of an entirely different lathe made me think back to this thread......

On that Jet lathe a ball, spring and set screw went thru the front of a dial, like this:







that's from page 35 of this manual:
https://content.jettools.com/assets/manuals/321360A_man_EN.pdf

Note I am NOT saying that there are great similarities between the two lathes.
Just thought that if you end up keeping this lathe you make look under those (upside-down) decals.

-brino


----------



## Tired&Retired

brino said:


> Just browsing the exploded view of an entirely different lathe made me think back to this thread......
> 
> On that Jet lathe a ball, spring and set screw went thru the front of a dial, like this:
> 
> View attachment 337463
> 
> 
> that's from page 35 of this manual:
> https://content.jettools.com/assets/manuals/321360A_man_EN.pdf
> 
> Note I am NOT saying that there are great similarities between the two lathes.
> Just thought that if you end up keeping this lathe you make look under those (upside-down) decals.
> 
> -brino



Thanks for thinking of me.  Good idea. Those decals are very thin, so maybe if there is something like that, I will be able to feel it with my thumbnail. That certainly could explain why I am having so much difficulty with those levers.  Unless the set screw is in the same hole that those levers screw into, I don't see any holding the knob in place on the shaft, so I was thinking they are just press on fits.  Maybe whoever was doing final assembly on this thing just laid those small parts we found in the crate on the bottom and forgot to install them before putting on the upside down decals.

The seller got back to me again early this morning and asked if he could have more time to have some techs look into this. He said they could replace the "dented" piece, so maybe he is talking about sending me a new bed?  He also mentioned that he would arrange for truck pickup if I just wanted to send it back for a full refund if things aren't satisfactory to me.  I'm just going to wait and see what happens, I guess.  Honestly, I guess the lathe could be a whole lot worse. Yeah, I wish it were perfect, but I wasn't expecting that at all when I ordered it.

If the seller is willing to do whatever it takes to make this right, I guess I should do my part and work with him and not cop an attitude.


----------



## matthewsx

Just make sure you know how much time you have to file a dispute. I guarantee they do....

I’m not saying that your seller won’t make it right, just that the cultural norms we grew up with aren’t universal.


John


----------



## Tired&Retired

After someone suggested that the grind mark might be covering up a crack, I broke out the Nikon and took some close-up pics of the grind mark so I could take a closer look at it. I do see a shadow that looks like the casting void extended upwards to a small crater on top of the sliding surface, but nothing that immediately looks like a crack to my untrained eye.


----------



## Tired&Retired

I got a 5MT dead center that I put into the headstock and put the 2MT dead center in the tailstock.  I had to fiddle with the adjustment screws on the tailstock to get the dead centers point to point.  But I noticed that the top of the tailstock is quite a bit offset from the bottom section.  Is this something to be expected?


----------



## Tired&Retired

matthewsx said:


> Just make sure you know how much time you have to file a dispute. I guarantee they do....
> 
> I’m not saying that your seller won’t make it right, just that the cultural norms we grew up with aren’t universal.
> 
> 
> John



PayPal has 180 days now to file a dispute, I believe. My credit card company says two billing cycles, which is roughly 60 days.  Not sure about Ebay, but I believe the window is smaller than the other two.  I can always start a dispute to get the clock ticking, and then if promises aren't kept when the deadline arrives, just let the dispute stand.  If promises are kept, then just cancel the dispute. At least in theory.


----------



## Tired&Retired

brino said:


> Just browsing the exploded view of an entirely different lathe made me think back to this thread......
> 
> On that Jet lathe a ball, spring and set screw went thru the front of a dial, like this:
> 
> View attachment 337463
> 
> 
> that's from page 35 of this manual:
> https://content.jettools.com/assets/manuals/321360A_man_EN.pdf
> 
> Note I am NOT saying that there are great similarities between the two lathes.
> Just thought that if you end up keeping this lathe you make look under those (upside-down) decals.
> 
> -brino



Hey, I went ahead and pulled off one of the arrow decals, and sure enough there is a hole there with a 3mm set screw in it.  I cranked up the lathe and tried running the set screw further in, which it went quite a ways in, but I didn't try to bottom it out in case it would just fall inside somewhere. And I also tried pulling it out flush with the edge of the control knob.  Didn't make any difference.  But the fact that it MOVED so far in leads me to believe that those parts my wife found laying on the bottom of the crate might actually NEED to have been placed in those set screw holes for detents, and those upside down labels were put on prematurely. Perhaps the person who did that either dropped them in the crate anyway, thinking the buyer would have to figure it out.  Just speculating, of course.  But that set screw sure did feel like it was there for a purpose other than holding that control knob onto something.

I sent the pics to the seller to see if he can talk to some tech about this and come up with an answer. A darn exploded view parts diagram sure would be handy!!


----------



## matthewsx

Your tailstock should be centered when the centers are aligned. Sounds like this machine is pretty much scrap metal. If they can ship you a new bed it might be worth about 1/4 what you paid. We expect these things to be “kits” but yours is much worse than most from your description.

Full refund is in order here.

John


----------



## Tired&Retired

matthewsx said:


> Your tailstock should be centered when the centers are aligned. Sounds like this machine is pretty much scrap metal. If they can ship you a new bed it might be worth about 1/4 what you paid. We expect these things to be “kits” but yours is much worse than most from your description.
> 
> Full refund is in order here.
> 
> John



I see...

So what conditions would cause the tailstock to have to be shifted over like it is on this machine?


----------



## matthewsx

Tweaked bed


----------



## Tired&Retired

matthewsx said:


> Tweaked bed



Hmm, then perhaps a new bed might solve more than one problem?

BTW, I put a square on the back section of the ways (am I using the correct terminology?) and I noticed that the tailstock is not square with the ways.  Looking from the direction of the perspective of the photo I provided, it is leaning to the left.  But shimming it would just have the result of having to slide the upper porting of the tailstock even further to the left.  Maybe badly machined tailstock?

Thanks.


----------



## matthewsx

I would speculate badly machined everything. Maybe it was built on a Monday, or just before Lunar New Year?

Probably the deeper you go the more you will find and that's not what you signed up for. If they don't even have drawings for it you'll never know what it was supposed to be like, maybe it was designed to cut tapered spirals for soft-serve ice cream machines.... 

If it were me I would tell the seller to send someone out to crate it up and refund the full amount. The bed is clearly hosed and so is the tailstock, they probably took all the reject parts and slapped something together hoping the buyer wouldn't notice. Make sure eBay is aware of the problem and that you want a refund for defective goods, don't wait since the more time it takes the less likely it is you'll see your money.

John


----------



## mikey

I would agree with John. You should return it for a full refund and stop messing with it. The seller really has little choice. Per eBay's definition of NEW: *New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging (where packaging is      applicable).* The front rail is clearly ground down to deal with a casting flaw in a very obvious way and that constitutes damage before it even left the factory. On this basis alone, the seller has to pay for shipping from your location and he has to provide a full refund, at least according to eBay's rules. 

I suggest you stop messing with the lathe immediately and file a claim with eBay for a return and full refund. You only have 30 days from the day of receipt to get this done. If I were you, I would get my money back and find another lathe.


----------



## atunguyd

Tired&Retired said:


> Hey, I went ahead and pulled off one of the arrow decals, and sure enough there is a hole there with a 3mm set screw in it. I cranked up the lathe and tried running the set screw further in, which it went quite a ways in, but I didn't try to bottom it out in case it would just fall inside somewhere. And I also tried pulling it out flush with the edge of the control knob. Didn't make any difference. But the fact that it MOVED so far in leads me to believe that those parts my wife found laying on the bottom of the crate might actually NEED to have been placed in those set screw holes for detents, and those upside down labels were put on prematurely. Perhaps the person who did that either dropped them in the crate anyway, thinking the buyer would have to figure it out. Just speculating, of course. But that set screw sure did feel like it was there for a purpose other than holding that control knob onto something.
> 
> I sent the pics to the seller to see if he can talk to some tech about this and come up with an answer. A darn exploded view parts diagram sure would be handy!!


Reading this thread when I saw the pictures of the springs and ball bearings this was my first thought, just as well I continued to read to the end before posting.

The gearbox in my mill is exactly the same. The ball bearings engage with detents in the casting to keep the knob in position and the gears engaged. Without them you would need to manually hold the knobs in position or they jump out.

Pull out the set screw, throw one bearing in, the a spring and put the setscrew back about flush with the knob surface.

That will fix one problem but it sounds like you have bigger issues. 

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk


----------



## Tired&Retired

Yeah, I believe you guys are correct. In  the last correspondence with the seller, he wanted me to try the feed direction change control with the spindle running at 1000 rpm.  Interestingly enough, I found a manual of a lathe that has nearly identical carriage controls -> https://www.precisionmatthews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/PM-1030V-2-9-2018-V1-web.pdf

Has a very nice exploded parts diagram too, on page 26, which clearly shows springs and ball bearings behind the set screws in those two knobs. Apparently the parts we found on the bottom of the crate were not ALL of the items needed for those two control knobs.  Just found those that were fortunate enough to meet up with those magnets that were also rattling around in there.

Then the seller wanted me to take a picture of the gear end of the lathe because the spindle speed display wasn't showing the numbers in the video I took. Like I wouldn't have mentioned that if that was another problem...

Anyway, I feel I tried everything I could.  I told the guy to either have a tested and QC inspected replacement machine on it's way to me by the end of next week, or the parts to fix it AND correspondence from someone who knows what the heck they are talking about or I will be filing a claim with Ebay/PayPal/credit card company for receipt of defective merchandise.  I guess I probably should have left off the part about the replacement parts, but damn, I have this darn nasty streak of trying to be fair with people. Even if they may not deserve it.

Well, this was a real big pain in the butt.  Guess I'll be putting the Emco Maier back where it had been sitting the past decade or so and that will just have to do me for any lathe work I want to do.


----------



## matthewsx

You have been very fair with this seller.

Here's how this works for them. The seller knows nothing about the lathe other than how much it costs them and what they are trying to sell it for. They never even saw the machine before you got it and are now trying to get answers from the manufacturer or some other middleman who knows only a little bit more than they do.

Their number one objective is to not refund your money and they will do almost anything towards that goal including making promises they have no intention of keeping. 

If you do get parts they will come from China and take a very long time to get here so agreeing to that will take you past the cutoff dates for eBay at the very least. Also, the likelihood that the parts you receive, if any, will fit your machine is very low. They will try to talk you into sourcing repair parts yourself, and doing your own repairs. None of this was mentioned in the original ad and shouldn't be expected of you. Just add up the time you've spent trying to troubleshoot this mess and decide if you have already exceeded the value of this tool even if it was working.

Remember, none of the people you communicate with will have much command of the English language so it will be very hard to even get straight answers regardless. And, even if they do their knowledge of lathes is probably much less than yours, ie. they might not even understand why the problems you have matter.

This is what I would call a Monopoly game situation, "go straight to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200". 

Take a look at the other items this seller has on eBay (if they're even still active under the name they were using) and you'll probably find a bunch of random stuff that has little or nothing to do with machine tools. They probably have several dozen other dissatisfied buyers they are dealing with now, you may not even be communicating with the responsible party, eBay has no way of verifying users in China and they really don't care as long as the fees are paid.

I'm not guessing about this stuff, I bought a bargain packaging machine several years ago and ended up with a similar situation. There's no win=win scenario here, just you being out time, energy and probably money if you continue. File your claim now, they are stalling you and have no intention or ability to correct the problems with this machine. I wish I was wrong but experience shows otherwise. They will play on your desire to "be fair" until they can fade away with your money which they certainly have already spent on other worthless goods to sell to unsuspecting buyers.

This is a business for them, the people (companies) behind this have hundreds of eBay accounts with good seller ratings they can sacrifice so the ratings/feedback system means nothing to them at this point. They can make an account, sell a thousand $2 trinkets to get a good rating, and then go for a big score like unloading a scrap machine tool and never use that account again. Don't fall for it, use the protections built into the system and make eBay eat the loss.

John


----------



## matthewsx

Any update?


----------



## Tired&Retired

matthewsx said:


> Any update?



Been trying to work this out with the seller.  I have been checking as much as I can (and know how to) on this lathe, and honestly it would be much easier to list the things that are "right" about it, than to list the things that are "wrong".

The seller has offered to either (1) send me all the parts I need to repair the lathe, or (2) send me another lathe (for an additional $400) and I can keep the original lathe as a spare parts backup.  He claimed that it would take 2 weeks to get the parts to me, and that sending the additional lathe would take 3 to 7 days after receiving payment.

I checked around to see if anyone was still selling this lathe, and I only found one, with the seller listing it for a ridiculous $6,000.00!  All the other ads have vanished.  Then out of curiosity, I checked the Ebay account of the seller and discovered that he had pulled all of his ads that he had running the last time I checked.  RED FLAG!!

 It was bad enough that correspondence was very slow with the seller since he is obviously on a much different time zone than the EST that I am on.  So that usually meant one reply every 24 hours.  I guess this is great for someone who wants to drag their feet to try to run the Ebay claim clock out.

Anyway, I filed a refund claim with Ebay today.  I paid via credit card through PayPal through Ebay, so if the seller doesn't make it good by the time my credit card bill is due, and if Ebay doesn't appear to be helping me out, I will file a dispute with the credit card company.  I know Ebay doesn't like you to do that, and threatens severe consequences, but screw it.  I'm not losing money over them letting Chinese sellers scam people on their site.  If they want to close my account that I have had since 1998 with them, then so be it.  I'm sure that won't kill me.  My feedback has been sterling all that time.

My last contact to the seller was earlier today when I explained why I filed the Ebay claim.  I also told him that I was not going to pay an additional $400 just to get what I already paid for.  If he wants to send me a replacement lathe, so that I can attempt to get one good lathe out of the two, I will then send what is back to him (on his dime).  Or else send arrange with UPS Freight or whoever to pick up this defective lathe and issue me a full refund.

So I don't know. If he is intent on scamming me, he will likely send a bogus tracking number to try to further delay things while he melts down through the floorboards. If he does send me a second unit, then I will just try to make the best of it with what I have. When I was thinking hard about just sending this back a few days ago, my wife asked me "Don't you think you can fix it?"  I guess she has gotten used to me being able to fix just about anything around here.    I know I looked around again and there is nothing with the specs of this machine in the weight that I can handle and even within twice the price, weight not being an issue. So that means this either works out or I give up the idea of getting a larger lathe.  I just cannot get a 500 pound lathe into the spot it needs to go.  Putting one in the garage where there exists the possibility that some part might go flying through the windshield of one of the vehicles in a no-go.

Oh well, trying the best I can. Just might not be good enough to have a happy ending.


----------



## COMachinist

This is why I do not buy any thing off Ebay anymore. Only chinese junk for sale any more or chinese junk hawked by US sellers that waon’t stand behind their goods. The California sellers are just Chinese agents networked here in the US.and supported by illegals. So you pays your money and don’t get what you pay for. I would hammer Ebay for a full refund and if they refuse file small claims court case.If they don’t show then you win and if they do show it will cost more than the lathe to send a rep to court.
I feel for ya. 
CH


----------



## addertooth

A dispute through PayPal may actually be more effective.  But by all means, try eBay first, that way you will have the secondary action of PayPal should it not go how you expect.

Be sure to mention to PayPal that the vendor appears to be erasing his trail and eliminating his listings on eBay.


----------



## matthewsx

That stinks.

Wish I hadn’t been right but this sounds like the same old thing. You can stop wasting your time corresponding with them, either they send you a working unit or you get your money back 

Could it be fixed? Maybe, but that’s not what you ordered.


----------



## matthewsx

EBay, then PayPal, then your credit card company.

It will take longer than it should.


----------



## Tired&Retired

Oh, I'm not going to lose money on this deal.  I specifically paid like I did as insurance.  Last line of defense is I just dispute the payment on my credit card.

I did get a reply from the seller tonight already, which is pretty early for him. He asked that I pack up the unit and take photos inside and out, so that is what I will be doing over the weekend.  He said he would arrange to have it picked up here by the trucking company and he would pay the return shipping.

The seller is still trying to angle for getting that extra $400 out of me, but I'm not biting. I hate to tell someone I don't trust them, but when the shoe fits.....  I told him he could send me the replacement lathe and if it checked out fine I would then send him the $400, because honestly this model in great shape would work very well for what I want and it would be worth that to me.  But his window to get this done is rapidly closing. And obviously the guy spooked me when he shut down all his other auctions on Ebay.  To me, that was tossing all the dead weight out of the balloon so he could just drift away and be gone.

He also mentioned that he could send the parts for me to do the repair and refund $500 since I would be doing the work.  But his earlier stated 2 weeks to get the parts is a no-go.  Besides, I would basically have to get the entire lathe replaced as a kit, since just about every part on it has a problem.  The control board seems to have an issue in that when I press the OFF button it can take 3 to 5 seconds for power to the motor to be shut off. That would be a VERY long time if you are trying to do an emergency shutdown.  Heck, the tailstock is canted at an angle, and the upper section skewed over about a quarter of an inch.  The cross slide has a full quarter turn of backlash, and has much too thin of a gib in it, as the adjustment screws are all fully screwed in to end of travel.  Of course we have that ground down gouge on the slideway, and the gearbox is pretty much hosed up to where it takes an act of GOD to get those controls to work.  The entire carriage has so much play in it that I can wiggle the entire thing 20 thousandths just by tugging on it.  Two of the pulleys wiggle like drunken sailors, and the gears don't mesh evenly.  No power lockouts for the chuck cover nor for the geartrain cover.  The three jaw chuck does not have a back cover on it because it was bored out for that larger spindle hole and that cut right into the threads for the bolts that would hold that cover in place.  The steady rest has one of the adjustment screws drilled incorrectly for the hold down screw. And the follow rest would scrape against the front wayslide when bolted onto the carriage.  Yeah, probably many of these things could be fixed, but heck, enough is enough. I expected I would have to fix a couple of things, but not EVERYTHING.  About the only good things I can think of is that the chuck has nearly zero runout, and the compound slide has zero backlash.

I know I can be pretty picky sometimes, and sometimes I just have to stand back and ask myself if I am being TOO picky about this.  But a I told the seller, I am pretty certain that this lathe is nothing more than a conglomeration of a bunch of rejected parts left over at the factory to dump on Ebay.  There is just no way in Hell this ever could have passed a quality control inspection. Just the gouge on the wayslide would have been enough to get it rejected.

Ah well. So much for this idea.  Have to put the Emco-Maier back where it used to be.

If anything noteworthy happens, I'll let you guys know.  But I'm not expecting anything beyond packing it up and having a trucking company pick it up now.

Thanks for the help and advice.


----------



## brino

You are definitely NOT being too picky.
More than half of what you got is not made right.

If anything you've been too easy on this seller.
I am glad you filed the dispute before the seller could make you miss the deadline!

-brino


----------



## Tired&Retired

While I was packing the lathe up, I had to move the compound slide and I noticed something odd there.  Pic attached.  How in the world did they get that hole in the side like that? And here I was thinking that at least the compound slide didn't seem to have any problems.  Lord only knows what I would have found had I opened up the headstock to take a peek inside.


----------



## Tired&Retired

Oh, btw, there is one good thing that seems to have come out of this.  My wife said I should go ahead and get a QUALITY lathe from someone, no matter what the price, even if we had to pay someone to set it up for us.  I just have to figure out if I really do want a larger and heavier lathe, and where exactly I could put something like that.


----------



## brino

She's a keeper!
-brino

EDIT to be clear, I mean the wife, not the lathe!


----------



## Tired&Retired

brino said:


> She's a keeper!
> -brino
> 
> EDIT to be clear, I mean the wife, not the lathe!



I knew what you meant. We've been married for 42 years and I have never had any reason to want to change that.


----------



## Stockyj

Just about every machined surface and edge are rough gives no confidence level of any quality just slapped together at the cheapest lowest level.
Really no point getting a larger heavier lathe if you don't need it the weight is an issue if you need to move it at any time. Currently, I am looking at a small mill but they soon get weighty and no good if you have to move or downsize workshop.


----------



## Tired&Retired

Stockyj said:


> Just about every machined surface and edge are rough gives no confidence level of any quality just slapped together at the cheapest lowest level.
> Really no point getting a larger heavier lathe if you don't need it the weight is an issue if you need to move it at any time. Currently, I am looking at a small mill but they soon get weighty and no good if you have to move or downsize workshop.



Well, the issue is that I REALLY want that 1.5" hole in the spindle and chuck.  That is a pretty limiting factor looking for a smallish lathe.  So I am looking for the smallest, lightest lathe I can find that has that specific feature.  Really limits me, I know.

As for moving the lathe, once I put it in place, it will likely stay there till I die.  I hate to put it in the garage, but that might be the only feasible option. I have a house, detached garage, and three outbuildings and space is just a major premium here. When as a kid my mom told me "better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it", I REALLY took that to heart. I rotate through my hobbies, but never throw anything away from any of them even when they go out of focus.


----------



## hotrats

Nothing to do with your specific situation, but - My wife is Vietnamese, when we go to visit, we always carry "stuff" for family. One of the first years visiting, I balked as many of the items were "made in China". I pointed out that Vietnam and China share a border, and wouldn't these items be cheaper purchased in Vietnam? Her answer was that China dumps their "seconds", or defective stuff in Vietnam. Just think of the issues the Vietnamese have with Chinese product quality!


----------



## Winegrower

Regarding Vietnam, I bought a Mitsubishi tractor, made in Japan, used for a few years and sent to Vietnam for a complete overhaul.  They told me no two parts were left attached.   It really was beautifully done, with a front loader and backhoe.   So good stuff can be gotten.  Though there was one added decal that I never even came close to figuring out what it meant.


----------



## Winegrower

As I read this thread, I recall all the posters who have said something like “I want to buy new so I don’t have problems with a used machine”.

I am also recalling the very first joke I heard as a child, which was “if this isn’t a real diamond in this ring I’ve been skun out of twenty bucks”.    I had to have it explained.


----------



## Tired&Retired

Interesting development.  The seller issued a return label for the lathe.  Through USPS.  Yeah, I can just see the look on the faces of the postal workers when I show up with that 183 lb crate with the return label slapped on it.


----------



## Tired&Retired

After contacting Ebay about this, they stepped in and I guess slapped the seller around a bit.  I got a call today that UPS Freight will be picking up the lathe (in crate) tomorrow.  I sure will be glad to put this behind me.


----------



## Tired&Retired

Well that ragbag lathe is on it's way back to the seller.  Now we'll see how long it takes to get my refund.

Looking hard at getting a Precision Matthews lathe now.  Still made in China, but they would have to put in an extraordinary amount of effort to send me one as bad as the one I just got rid of.  Anyway, not keen on wrestling around with a nearly 500 lb lathe, but I guess I can do it.  Getting a work table shipped in and looking into which local trucking company might be best to deal with.  I think picking the lathe up at the local terminal and having them put the lathe into the bed of the truck might be easier than working from the back of an 18 wheeler to transfer it over.


----------



## Tired&Retired

Ebay processed the FULL refund, but I still don't see it in my credit card account. I presume it is just a matter of time.  Funny how companies can take your money immediately, but giving it back seems to be a struggle.

I need to check with Precision Matthews to see what sort of quality control steps they put their Chinese made lathes through. This recent issue really left a bad taste in my mouth concerning Chinese "quality".  You would think that with the cheap labor they have at their disposal they could do a LOT better than this.


----------



## addertooth

Tired&Retired,
I am glad you were able to get the process to work out well for you.
Some people do well with the eBay lottery, others end up getting stuck with the losing tickets.
Your approach of getting it through PM or LMS is more likely to be a winning move.
You pay a bit more, but who needs the stress of the lottery, that is a young-man's game.

A word of warning, both LMS and PM have supply chain challenges right now due to Covid.
Buy soon, or you may find that your top choice is sold out.


----------



## Tired&Retired

No worries.  I would just take it as a sign that I am just not destined to buy a new lathe. When I turned 70 back in July, I came to the realization that there are some things that I have missed the boat on in life. This would just be another one on that list.

My wife asked me today what I was going to make with the new lathe.  I told her truthfully that I had no plans.  Honestly, it might sit there for months or years  before something would come up that I might "need" it for. That Chinesium lathe I tried to buy off of Ebay just seemed like a real bargain and would be pretty handy to have around without a lot of expense involved.  So now I am looking at another lathe that will cost 3 times as much. I must be out of my friggin' mind.


----------



## matthewsx

You will find plenty of things to make with your new lathe, I suggest something for the wife first 

John


----------



## Tired&Retired

I've been talking with the folks (actually via email) at Precision Matthews about getting a lathe from them, and I think Matt was getting concerned that I was having overly high expectations of the Chinese made lathe I would get from him after all my questions about quality control and such.  I told him about this Ebay Chinesium lathe I had gotten and returned, and I think he thought that what I was describing was being wildly exaggerated and I was just being hyper-critical about it.  Until I sent him links to the YouTube videos I took of many of the problems I found on the lathe.  I believe that pretty much alleviated all his concerns about me being just SUPER overly critical about Chinese "quality".  And I didn't even include all the other stuff I found after making those videos.  BTW, the seller apparently pulled up stakes on Ebay, and I guess it is fortunate that I did all the necessary steps I did in order to get them involved to get my money back.

So I guess the good that will come out of this is that I will hopefully end up with a lathe magnitudes better.  Yeah, a LOT more money, but if this Chinesium lathe I got dumped on me isn't a perfect example of "you get what you pay for", I would be hard pressed to come up with a better one.

Honestly towards the end my fear was that I would get stuck with that Ebay lathe, and like an idiot try to fix all the problems I could myself. Which, of course, would have made if very difficult to justify buying a PM lathe, and would likely waste a bunch of time and money just to wind up with something I would never really be happy about. So hopefully all will end well. Matt told me not to worry and he would take care of me if for some reason I wasn't happy with what he sends me.  Honestly, he would probably be very hard pressed to find something even half as bad as that one I sent back.


----------



## addertooth

I believe they folks at PM will treat you well, and this morning I put my money where my mouth is.  I ordered a new mill from them while they were snoozing in the early hours of the morning. 

Right now, sellers based in the United States are dealing with Covid related delays on getting in lathes and mills. My suggestion is simple, examine your options and make a fairly rapid choice.  I had about 5 mills (two used, and three new) get sold out because I agonized on my choices too long.


----------



## Tired&Retired

addertooth said:


> I believe they folks at PM will treat you well, and this morning I put my money where my mouth is.  I ordered a new mill from them while they were snoozing in the early hours of the morning.
> 
> Right now, sellers based in the United States are dealing with Covid related delays on getting in lathes and mills. My suggestion is simple, examine your options and make a fairly rapid choice.  I had about 5 mills (two used, and three new) get sold out because I agonized on my choices too long.



I don't think it will be an issue with me waiting a few more days.  Matter of fact, I heard that PM just got in a full container of machines to fill backorders.  So obviously things aren't all that bad with the supply and availability.

I needed to get the Ebay lathe fiasco thing wrapped up first, and now I am just waiting for my credit card cycle to end for this month so I can put the new charge on a new cycle. I pay off the credit card bill in full every month, so I try not to have it get too large in any given cycle. I have never had to pay credit card interest fees, and not interested in starting now.

If for some chance PM does run out of the model I want, then oh well.  It wasn't meant to be, then.

Hope they have the mill you want and it will be on it's way to you quickly.  Which model did you order?


----------



## addertooth

I selected the PM-728-VT.  They had already sold out of the ones with a factory DRO, and then they additionally ran out of the pedestal base.
So, I will be engineering brackets, and self installing a DRO, and welding up a table to set it on.  A bit more work than ideal.  I was perfectly happy to pay a bit more and get the factory DRO and the factory pedestal, but that was not an option.  I see that according to paypal the money was moved for it, but it looks like they don't send a confirmation E-Mail.  Looks like I need to go to their website and enter my account and query it that way.


----------



## Tired&Retired

addertooth said:


> I selected the PM-728-VT.  They had already sold out of the ones with a factory DRO, and then they additionally ran out of the pedestal base.
> So, I will be engineering brackets, and self installing a DRO, and welding up a table to set it on.  A bit more work than ideal.  I was perfectly happy to pay a bit more and get the factory DRO and the factory pedestal, but that was not an option.  I see that according to paypal the money was moved for it, but it looks like they don't send a confirmation E-Mail.  Looks like I need to go to their website and enter my account and query it that way.



Man, that looks like a real nice machine.  Looks like a lot of the DROs are on backorder. The stand for the 1228 lathe is on backorder, and honestly, I didn't even look at it closely at first for that reason.  I've been looking into getting the a lathe with DRO, but I don't think I would use it all that much. If anything I would like to get the DROs like Little Machine Shop has with the display right at the adjustment wheel. Now THAT would be handy for me.

I bought a very raw Chinese mill 15 or so years ago specifically to modify PVC endcaps into little water dishes for animals I was working with at the time.  Kind of overkill, but I needed a TON of them and it sure made the job easier, and I wound up selling enough of the water dishes to pay for the mill. I can see where a DRO on it would make it a lot easier to figure out what I am doing, though. It is a very raw and klunky machine, but it did what I needed it to do for me. The lathes available now just looks so much more refined looking. And I know I paid a LOT more for it than what it is actually worth.


----------



## addertooth

Tired&Retired said:


> Man, that looks like a real nice machine.  Looks like a lot of the DROs are on backorder. The stand for the 1228 lathe is on backorder, and honestly, I didn't even look at it closely at first for that reason.  I've been looking into getting the a lathe with DRO, but I don't think I would use it all that much. If anything I would like to get the DROs like Little Machine Shop has with the display right at the adjustment wheel. Now THAT would be handy for me.
> 
> I bought a very raw Chinese mill 15 or so years ago specifically to modify PVC endcaps into little water dishes for animals I was working with at the time.  Kind of overkill, but I needed a TON of them and it sure made the job easier, and I wound up selling enough of the water dishes to pay for the mill. I can see where a DRO on it would make it a lot easier to figure out what I am doing, though. It is a very raw and klunky machine, but it did what I needed it to do for me. The lathes available now just looks so much more refined looking. And I know I paid a LOT more for it than what it is actually worth.


Yes, I have an LMS lathe with the digital readout on the hand wheels. The a much better than reading the dials and counting revolutions.


----------



## Tired&Retired

addertooth said:


> A word of warning, both LMS and PM have supply chain challenges right now due to Covid.
> Buy soon, or you may find that your top choice is sold out.



BTW. I forgot to mention this earlier, which supports what you are saying. While looking at mini-lathe options, I noted the Weiss brand lathes at DRO Pros and fired off an email asking them about shipping charges to my zip. This was at the end of September. I got a reply, but it was to tell me that they had stopped importing machines because of increased surcharges at the port of entry for them, and also high tariff issues.  Apparently they were considering whether they would continue to import at all, from what I gathered.

So yeah, probably a good thing I ordered one when I did instead of waiting.


----------



## hotrats

I've got a PM mill and lathe, you'll be happy dealing with Matt and crew. Check out Mr. Pragmatic Lee's video on mounting a DRO to his 1228 PM lathe.


----------

