# Tool Store That Is Big On Made In Usa



## Ironken (Nov 29, 2016)

I stumbled onto this place online looking for USA Made transfer punches. Just so happens they are located in Kansas City......soooo I paid them a visit. 

These guys are an old school tool store and have a bit of everything. Spoke to one of the family members and he told me that they are about 75-80% American Made stock. The rest being German and the usual suspects.

https://www.harryepstein.com


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## hman (Nov 29, 2016)

Sounded fascinating, so I clicked on the link.  Was this Deja Vu? ... then I saw that they do "box art" and I recognized the company.  I'd run across it several months ago when searching fro Knipex pliers.  Great merchandise!!!


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## Ironken (Nov 29, 2016)

Yep, that's the guys hman! In fact, I was looking at the Knipex display today. Very cool people to talk to and very willing to take time with you. Not common these days.


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## Bob Korves (Nov 29, 2016)

Look carefully at the closeout items on the site.  You will not necessarily find the closeout items if you search by the vendor list in the left margin of the page.  Yes, you will have to go through the entire list of 1236 items to find the great deals.  Like USA Nicholson files at outstanding prices.  They also have PEC (Precision Engineering Corp) USA made squares and rulers, etc, that are blems, for killer prices.  PEC has always been a close competitor with Starrett, but I prefer the current PEC tools over the current Starrett tools, and the prices are WAY lower.  I bought a 12" satin chrome PEC combination square blade on eBay and I honestly cannot see any blem in it other than a half hearted attempt to remove the PEC logo, which is still quite readable and not offensive.  The prices of the PEC stuff are outstanding.  I also bought a set of 4 PEC machinist solid squares recently (not blems) from KBC tools and they test better than any others I have tried, including Starrett.  So, start looking through those closeout items, there are some real deals there on very high quality items.  Note that if it does not say USA, then it is not...

I'm on my way back to order a PEC double square blem from HJE...

Edit:  Just placed the order.  Straightforward, simple, and the standard ground shipping was $4.40 USD which brought the total for the 6" double square to $21.90 USD delivered, they have lots in stock and I even put in my color preference of the three colors on hand (black).


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## Ironken (Nov 30, 2016)

Bob, I'm looking for machinist squares. It's good to know that PEC tests at least as well as Starrett. Starrett anymore seems to be over priced and some of their tools are Chinese.... but priced way more than other Chinese made brands.

It's pretty neet that you have dealt with Epstein and you are located all the way over on the left coast. Small world!

On a side rant. I have a pile of Visegrip locking welder's pliers. Used to be made in Crete, Ne. They have been made overseas for years and you can see the difference in quality between the two. They used to be the only game in town until now. Epstein will be carrying a line of locking pliers from a mom and pop in Germany. Just a few bucks more per unit than Visegrips and the quality is night and day difference. They have a sample of the new line to check out. I see a few of them ending up in my toolbox when stock arrives.

I agree that Epstein's prices are more than fair as you show with your order. I'm glad to see a place like this is still alive and well!


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## Fitter Bill (Nov 30, 2016)

I looked thru their items for sale and they have springs for my Wiss sheet metal shears. I have been looking for these. Ordered 3 last evening, they were shipped this AM. Great service.... Thanks for the heads up.

Bill


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## Ironken (Nov 30, 2016)

Great Bill! I was impressed with Epstein's philosophy and wanted to share. I know they are very active with the Garage Journal community and figured....why do they get all the cool stuff....lol


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## Tony Wells (Nov 30, 2016)

Cool store


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## Bob Korves (Dec 2, 2016)

Ironken said:


> Bob, I'm looking for machinist squares. It's good to know that PEC tests at least as well as Starrett. Starrett anymore seems to be over priced and some of their tools are Chinese.... but priced way more than other Chinese made brands.
> 
> It's pretty neet that you have dealt with Epstein and you are located all the way over on the left coast. Small world!
> 
> ...


General tools are also a good USA brand for git-er-dun work, they are consistently usable and reasonable if not high precision.  If you are looking for precision tools at great prices, the PEC stuff is the way to go.  Starrett (or better) quality at very good prices, and the blems are as cheap or even better priced than dicey Asian import tooling.  Many of us cannot test or calibrate our high precision equipment to see if it is really as advertised (I try to as best as I can).  I will use PEC tools out of the box for the fussiest projects without testing them, but it is always better if you can confirm, one good test is worth a million expert opinions...

I will only buy the old USA Vice Grips, which can still be found in excellent condition at good prices if you keep looking.  Now, Knipex pliers are an "import" worth having!


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## Ironken (Dec 4, 2016)

I have a few General tools that have worked well for me.....protractors, etc. I always thought of PEC to be a lesser brand but, I'm learning that is not true. This is good because like you said, their prices are really good for what you get.

Knipex pliers are very nice and my toolbox would have no objections welcoming some. Same with those German locking plers too.


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## Bob Korves (Dec 6, 2016)

A follow up.  I ordered the blem PEC double square from Epstein Co. on Tuesday, and it showed up on Friday.  It looks good and operates really well, though the PEC logo was completely removed on this one.  Once again, I can find no reason this square was sold as a blem.  It looks perfect to me.  I took it to the shop and tested it on the surface plate with both a granite angle block and a cylinder square.  The cylinder square is actually a new wrist pin for a diesel engine that has been lightly lapped and then calibrated by me to show where the square points are.  Pics:





I set up the square with the hardened and ground steel slide first at one end, then the other, and then turned the head over and repeated them with the same results, a perfect match with no light gaps.  Not bad for a tool I paid $17.50 for, plus $4.40 freight from Epstein Co.  The part number is 7105-4R.  On the PEC site http://www.pectools.com/ ones that are not blems go for $44.65 http://www.pectools.com/squares/doublesquares.html.  Starrett wants $84.00 for theirs http://www.starrett.com/metrology/p...n-measuring-tools/squares/Special-Squares/13C and I guess Starrett never made a blem, but then neither did Shars or the other Chinese mfrs.  Note also that Starrett products do not specifically say "Made in USA", and only give the company location as Athol, Mass USA.  Anyway, I am quite happy with the one I received, and the service and competitive pricing from Epstein Co.  This square will be useful for measuring and testing for square in tighter places where standard combination squares and solid squares will not do the same job.

Take a look at the PEC site.  They have a lot of nice, quality tools there.  And look some more at the Epstein Co, closeouts...


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## 4GSR (Dec 7, 2016)

The PEC blemished ones are the Starrett rejected ones...


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## Ironken (Dec 8, 2016)

Bob Korves said:


> A follow up.  I ordered the blem PEC double square from Epstein Co. on Tuesday, and it showed up on Friday.  It looks good and operates really well, though the PEC logo was completely removed on this one.  Once again, I can find no reason this square was sold as a blem.  It looks perfect to me.  I took it to the shop and tested it on the surface plate with both a granite angle block and a cylinder square.  The cylinder square is actually a new wrist pin for a diesel engine that has been lightly lapped and then calibrated by me to show where the square points are.  Pics:
> View attachment 140957
> View attachment 140958
> View attachment 140959
> ...



I'll take a gander ar PEC. It's cool that you took the time to verify accuracy and post, Bob! BTW.....I work with big diesels every day.....I've gotta know....what is that wrist pin out of? I had no idea that bearing races and apparently wrist pins are so accurate.


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## Bob Korves (Dec 8, 2016)

Ironken said:


> I'll take a gander ar PEC. It's cool that you took the time to verify accuracy and post, Bob! BTW.....I work with big diesels every day.....I've gotta know....what is that wrist pin out of? I had no idea that bearing races and apparently wrist pins are so accurate.


I was a parts guy for 36 years, working with heavy equipment, big trucks, and everything else.  The wrist pin was a leftover "paperweight" at work, which I was allowed to take home as scrap.  The length is about 4" and I do not know what it is for, perhaps a 7.3L or T444E  International engine.  It is new and unused.  The O.D. on wrist pins is golden, extremely accurately made on a cylindrical grinder.  The ends, not so much.  That matters, because if using it for a cylinder square it needs to be standing dead nuts vertical.  But there is a quirk that makes it possible.  I carefully lapped one end of the wrist pin lightly until it was dead flat and with no rock, tested with spotting ink on my surface plate and adjusted until it had even bearing over the surface.  OK, so now I have some sort of "leaning tower of Pisa," don't know how much lean or where.  At this point I dragged out my granite angle block.  One virtue of a "leaning cylinder" is that it is square at two opposite lines, which are 90 degrees from the worst leaning lines.  So, I tested it with a light behind it against the angle plate, which showed increasing and decreasing light, top, then zero, bottom, and zero again as it was twisted around.  I carefully marked the square places so I could use them.  Done deal.  It also was a parallel test for the granite angle block, which passed!  The lean on the pin is very small, so I might try to lap it so the wall is vertical all the way around the pin.  Some day.  That is a slow and fussy job, but doable...

There were no bearing races involved with this... (?)

I don't care who made something, I always feel like I need to test it for accuracy as best as I can.  Some of the highest regarded tools have tested poorly and some everyday things in our lives are quite accurate!  A good test is worth a million expert opinions...


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## mikegt4 (Dec 8, 2016)

Epstein's has been a favorite over on the Garage Journal forum for years. Often they include a hand made drawing of some sort in the box with your order. They offer a sale in cooperation with the GJ forum around the 4th of July (note the America theme). Look in the "sticky" section for the 4th of July sale thread and use the "search this forum" box to find other "Epstein" threads.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4


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## Scruffy (Dec 11, 2016)

Thanks Ironken, that only took 2 hrs and a hundred dollars.  All joking aside that is one of the neatest store websites I've seen in along time.
Thanks scruffy.  Alias ron


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## Ironken (Dec 13, 2016)

Bob Korves said:


> I was a parts guy for 36 years, working with heavy equipment, big trucks, and everything else.  The wrist pin was a leftover "paperweight" at work, which I was allowed to take home as scrap.  The length is about 4" and I do not know what it is for, perhaps a 7.3L or T444E  International engine.  It is new and unused.  The O.D. on wrist pins is golden, extremely accurately made on a cylindrical grinder.  The ends, not so much.  That matters, because if using it for a cylinder square it needs to be standing dead nuts vertical.  But there is a quirk that makes it possible.  I carefully lapped one end of the wrist pin lightly until it was dead flat and with no rock, tested with spotting ink on my surface plate and adjusted until it had even bearing over the surface.  OK, so now I have some sort of "leaning tower of Pisa," don't know how much lean or where.  At this point I dragged out my granite angle block.  One virtue of a "leaning cylinder" is that it is square at two opposite lines, which are 90 degrees from the worst leaning lines.  So, I tested it with a light behind it against the angle plate, which showed increasing and decreasing light, top, then zero, bottom, and zero again as it was twisted around.  I carefully marked the square places so I could use them.  Done deal.  It also was a parallel test for the granite angle block, which passed!  The lean on the pin is very small, so I might try to lap it so the wall is vertical all the way around the pin.  Some day.  That is a slow and fussy job, but doable...
> 
> There were no bearing races involved with this... (?)
> 
> I don't care who made something, I always feel like I need to test it for accuracy as best as I can.  Some of the highest regarded tools have tested poorly and some everyday things in our lives are quite accurate!  A good test is worth a million expert opinions...



That wrist pin just looked big in the pic. Maybe the T444e was built that robust throughout thus the good rep.

The bearing race reference was to guys using big outer races tram in machines. I just kinda threw that in there......kinda randomly.

I don't have the skill or equipment to do much verification of the accuracy of my measuring devices. This is where guys like you come in....I kinda cheat and go off your recommendations as to what's good and not so good.


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## Ironken (Dec 13, 2016)

Scruffy said:


> Thanks Ironken, that only took 2 hrs and a hundred dollars.  All joking aside that is one of the neatest store websites I've seen in along time.
> Thanks scruffy.  Alias ron



I'm glad you enjoyed the store (even though your wallet is a bit lighter). But hey.......it's money well spent.....BECAUSE TOOLS!


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## Bob Korves (Dec 13, 2016)

Ironken said:


> That wrist pin just looked big in the pic. Maybe the T444e was built that robust throughout thus the good rep.
> 
> The bearing race reference was to guys using big outer races tram in machines. I just kinda threw that in there......kinda randomly.
> 
> I don't have the skill or equipment to do much verification of the accuracy of my measuring devices. This is where guys like you come in....I kinda cheat and go off your recommendations as to what's good and not so good.


Oh, I see, to stop the slot bumps...  Personally, if I want to tram the table, I tram the table, not something added to it to introduce errors.  If you set up the indicator so it barely touches the table at full extension, it can go over the t-slots without upsetting or damaging the indicator and you are actually indicating what you want to test.  No two indicator tram 'aids' or other gadgets for me.  The bearing race will help you to not see the swale or hill in the table.


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## Ironken (Dec 13, 2016)

Bob Korves said:


> Oh, I see, to stop the slot bumps...  Personally, if I want to tram the table, I tram the table, not something added to it to introduce errors.  If you set up the indicator so it barely touches the table at full extension, it can go over the t-slots without upsetting or damaging the indicator and you are actually indicating what you want to test.  No two indicator tram 'aids' or other gadgets for me.  The bearing race will help you to not see the swale or hill in the table.



I would have to agree Bob. Why introduce unnecessary variables into the task.


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