# QMT High Precision Adjustable ER-40 ER Collet Chucks and 5C chucks in D1-4 and D1-5



## mksj (May 26, 2021)

Looks like QMT/Precision Mathews is now stocking high quality adjustable (set-true style) ER-40 and 5C chucks with either D1-4 or D1-5 back plates. I have seen the 5C version (also posted a picture he sent me)  and it is very nicely machined, either is a nice addition if you use collet chucks and want a higher quality chuck that won't bust the piggy bank.








						HIGH PRECISION ADJUSTABLE ER-40 ER COLLET CHUCK, D1-4 MOUNT FOR METAL LATHE   | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HIGH PRECISION ADJUSTABLE ER-40 ER COLLET CHUCK, D1-4 MOUNT FOR METAL LATHE  at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				











						HIGH PRECISION ADJUSTABLE ER-40 ER COLLET CHUCK, D1-5 MOUNT FOR METAL LATHE   | eBay
					

HIGH PRECISION, ADJUSTABLE ER-40 COLLET CHUCK, WITH D1-5 MOUNT. A big upgrade from most standard non-adjustable collet chucks, but a very reasonable price. D1-5 Camlock Mounting fits any lathe spindle with this mount.



					www.ebay.com
				











						HIGH PRECISION ADJUSTABLE 5C 5-C COLLET CHUCK, D1-4 MOUNT FOR METAL LATHE   | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HIGH PRECISION ADJUSTABLE 5C 5-C COLLET CHUCK, D1-4 MOUNT FOR METAL LATHE  at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				











						HIGH PRECISION ADJUSTABLE 5C 5-C COLLET CHUCK, D1-5 MOUNT FOR METAL LATHE   | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HIGH PRECISION ADJUSTABLE 5C 5-C COLLET CHUCK, D1-5 MOUNT FOR METAL LATHE  at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


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## 7milesup (May 26, 2021)

I have always been intrigued by the ER collets over the 5c.  Can anyone shed light on the pros and cons of ER vs 5c.  I believe that the ER series has more of a gripping range than the 5C?
I am really tempted to pull the trigger on that D1-4 ER.


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## .LMS. (May 26, 2021)

7milesup said:


> I have always been intrigued by the ER collets over the 5c.  Can anyone shed light on the pros and cons of ER vs 5c.  I believe that the ER series has more of a gripping range than the 5C?
> I am really tempted to pull the trigger on that D1-4 ER.



I have the one from shars and use it about 70% of the time, the other 30% split between my 3 and 4 jaw QMT.   I would not be without one, but that's just me.


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## Jake P (May 26, 2021)

I added the ER and a full set of metric collets to my 1340GT lathe order.  For the price it’s a no brainer (to what’s left of mine).


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## ddickey (May 26, 2021)

@7milesup I believe the big difference is the gripping area. On a 5C you can get away with just gripping on the end. That's a big no no with an ER.
Also the small clamping range. The advantage is you don't have that big nut in the front like the ER. ER's are supposed to slightly more accurate as well.


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## mksj (May 26, 2021)

Two camps on ER vs 5C collets for lathe material holding. Having both, I primarily use 5C for a couple of different reasons. I not a fan of having to have a wrench and a nut to tighten the work, 5C can handle much shorter stock which is what I am most frequently clamping. I use a speed handle on the 5C chuck so very quick to change collets. Downside of 5C, limited holding power vs. ER collets for longer stock, limited clamping range, really requires a 1/64th" increment 5C collet set. ER collets tend to clamp uniformly from both ends so less axial run-out the further you go from the chuck. ER collets tend to have a smaller TIR, but it all depends on the quality and the clamping range. 

If you look at something like an ER-40 collet set, many vendors will sell you a 1 mm increment set and say it covers the full range. Personal experience is although they may be advertised as 1 mm clamping range, the TIR sucks at the extreme range. I use a 1/32" increment ER-40 collet set and my high accuracy ER collets are not made for a range of clamping, but a specific increment. In addition with ER systems, a higher quality clamping nut and better collets (like techniks) make a significant improvement in TIR and axial skew of the work. 

Since both of the chucks noted above are set-true (adjustable for run-out) you can compensate for slight variations in collet TIR if needed. So a matter of preference, but nice to see that there are two quality options with regard to adjustable collet chucks that are reasonable priced. This fills a big gap in the market for these chucks between the really poorly made cheap lathe collet chucks and the expensive high end ones.


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## rabler (May 26, 2021)

@mksj, thanks for a good comparison. I was ready to pull the trigger on a Shars ER-40 collet chuck with a D1-6 backplate last week.  Unfortunately either the collet chuck itself or the backplate was on backorder, not sure which one.


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## davidpbest (May 27, 2021)

If you're going the ER40 collet chuck route, I highly recommend replacing the OEM collet nut with a high quality version from Rego-Fix.  I've tried ER40 nuts from about 7 different brands in an attempt to improve TIR and collet removal when loosening, and nothing beats this one with ball bearing for ease of tightening/loosening:



			https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/63080527


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## erikmannie (May 27, 2021)

I need an economy 5C collet chuck for my PM-1030V. This lathe has a proprietary backing plate.






						Spare Back Plate, 5″ Diameter, for PM-1022V / PM-1030V Lathes – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.
					






					www.precisionmatthews.com
				




PM sells the backing plates for about $70. I wonder if they have a (universal mount?) 5C collet chuck for that.

Edit: it looks like they do not have a universal mount:



			https://www.precisionmatthews.com/product-category/accessories/lathe-accessories/lathe-chucks/collet-chucks/


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## Jake P (May 27, 2021)

Based on my research (not experience), Mark‘s comparison sums up the differences succinctly. 

An old saying is “horses for courses”, and this is just another good example of that truism.

In the end it seems to me that a complete tooling setup would eventually include both ER and 5C, and someday I hope add a 5C setup.  For now however, trying to justify a $320 addition to my order is easier than a $680 addition.   It’s always that darn money thing!


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## 7milesup (May 27, 2021)

Money and space Jake!


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## Christianstark (May 27, 2021)

Just added the ER40 D1-4 and the set of 15 inch size collets to my lathe order to add to my 3 and 4 jaw chucks. I should be good on work holding for a while. Anyone here using ER40 for tool holding on the lathe?


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## davidpbest (May 27, 2021)

Jake P said:


> Based on my research (not experience), Mark‘s comparison sums up the differences succinctly.
> 
> An old saying is “horses for courses”, and this is just another good example of that truism.
> 
> In the end it seems to me that a complete tooling setup would eventually include both ER and 5C, and someday I hope add a 5C setup.  For now however, trying to justify a $320 addition to my order is easier than a $680 addition.   It’s always that darn money thing!


The attached might be helpful.


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## Larry$ (May 27, 2021)

I got the 5C with adjustable back plate from QMT when I got my lathe 5 years ago. My chuck looks different and does not have the PM logo. It is a very nice chuck and I use it when the work will fit rather than a jaw chuck. The 5C collets will grip very short work. Disadvantage is the very limited range. On work less than 5/8"+- you really have to have 1/64" steps. My spin indexer and collet blocks are 5C.
Our CNC router uses ER32 from Techniques. They claim their collet nuts are superior to ball bearing ones. They also say to insert the bit to nearly the full depth of the collet. I've heard users say that isn't necessary. We had an employee put a bit in only about 1/2 the depth of the collet trying to reach deeper with a tool. He was lucky, when the 1/2" bit exited the collet at 16,000 rpm it just dented the wall.

Edit: It should be noted that we use a torque wrench to seat the collet nut, while in the fixture. We can then measure with a height gage so the control settings can be up graded for each change.


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## Jake P (May 27, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> The attached might be helpful.


Thank you again David, I’ll read closely!


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## Christianstark (May 27, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> The attached might be helpful.


Hey David! I have had such a huge influx of learning the past few months, I totally forgot to go metric instead of imperial for the collets.

Just emailed PM to change my order to the 26 piece metric set.


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## mksj (May 27, 2021)

I do not recommend the ER40 collets in metric if working in imperial sizes, the may compress 1 mm but the TIR and skew usually suffers. I suggest a 1/32 set, which has a narrow clamping range and is closer to typical imperial stock you may be using. I also saw a study someone did many years ago on the clamping force and TIR an it was dramatically worse at the limits of the 1 mm increment ranges.


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## Christianstark (May 27, 2021)

mksj said:


> I do not recommend the ER40 collets in metric if working in imperial sizes, the may compress 1 mm but the TIR and skew usually suffers. I suggest a 1/32 set, which has a narrow clamping range and is closer to typical imperial stock you may be using. I also saw a study someone did many years ago on the clamping force and TIR an it was dramatically worse at the limits of the 1 mm increment ranges.


Every time I log on here it’s costing me hundreds of dollars...looks like I’ll buy both sets to start. It’s $170 extra for the metric set. I still have so much to buy so I am going to need to make sacrifices here and there. I don’t even own any milling machine cutting tools yet...lol


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## davidpbest (May 28, 2021)

Christian, you certainly do not need both metric and imperial sets.  Base your decision on whether you are commonly holding metric or imperial nominally-sized material.  If you're intended use is in the lathe spindle for workholding, and you are generally starting off with imperial sized bar stock, then get the imperial sized collets.  In my case, 90 percent of my work with ER40 on the lathe begins life or ends up as a metric sized bar stock for 2nd op.  I also own a six ER40 collets in imperial sizes for tool holding on the mill and in the lathe tailstock.

As far as TIR is concerned, I went down this rabbit hole in 2019, performing extensive testing and talking with some pretty sophisticated tooling engineers and CNC production managers in my quest to improve tolerances.  Rego-Fix (the Swiss company that invented the ER system) will guarantee their TIR specs across the full clamping range if you employ all Rego-Fix components in the ER system (collet chuck, collet, and collet nut) using a torque wrench for tightening.  Their stated clamping range for ER40 is 0.040" whether it's an imperial or metric collet.  But you really have to look at it at a SYSTEM, and all three of the components contribute to TIR at nominal and fully compressed limits.  

Obviously, a colllet chuck that has a poorly machined taper or is off-axis to the spindle rotation is going to have runout.  Same with a poorly made collet.  And if the material being clamped does not extend the full length into the collet, this can also contribute to poor TIR results.  But this is equally true of the collet nut which has it's own 30° taper that aligns the nose of the collet as it's driven into the collet chuck taper.  

If the 30° taper inside the collet nut is not machined precisely, the nut will drive the collet slightly askew axially as it's tightened down - and the harder you tighten the nut, the more it's driven off-axis.  The same holds true of the 30° taper on the nose of the collet - it must be precisely on-axis to the longer taper at the opposite end to achieve a precise alignment as the nut is tightened.  Adding a bearing to the collet nut to make it easier to twist on/off can also contribute to off-axis alignment.  Matching the collet size to closely the diamter of the material being held will reduce the required clamping range, which can improve TIR - just as Mark has observed.

Every element here contributes to the resulting TIR.  Having a Set-True style collet chuck in the spindle provides the flexibility to adjust the collet taper on-axis to the spindle.  Investing in precision collets will also improve TIR.  But if you put an $80 Rego-Fix precision collet in a $800 Bison collet chuck and use a $20 ER collet nut to tighten the setup, I can speak with authority that your TIR will not be disappointing, and get worse the more you tighten down on the nut.   The single best thing I have done to improve ER40 TIR is to employ a Rego-Fix collet nut.  And with consistent torque applied, I see no difference in TIR across the full 0.040" clamping range with either metric or imperial ultra precision collets.   With any of the other ER40 collet nuts I've tried (Maritool, Parlec, HHIP, Shars, Technicks, Accupro) the results vary considerably and are not proportional to price of the nut.

Does any of this matter in practice?  Well, that has a lot to do with the kind of precision you are after, and whether you can complete all the required machining operation in one setup.  If your parts are brought to final size, then parted off and flipped around in the collet chuck for a second operation (which is what I do often), it can be pretty frustrating to have to re-align the Set-True chuck individually for each of the 20 parts you just made in order to hit tolerance.  Limiting the required clamping range is one strategy that helps - I actually have two half-millimeter ER40 collets (18.5 and 16.5) specifically for this reason.  But investing in a decent collet nut can also really improve TIR.  <end of rant>


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## Jake P (May 28, 2021)

For anyone interested in the Rego-Fix ER40 Collet Nut w/Bearing that MSCDirect.com is selling, the price shows as $96 but when I went to pay the price was reduced in my cart to $76.80.  I did not expect that.  I'm not sure why but it's a nice discount if you're thinking about this item.


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## wrmiller (May 28, 2021)

mksj said:


> Looks like QMT/Precision Mathews is now stocking high quality adjustable (set-true style) ER-40 and 5C chucks with either D1-4 or D1-5 back plates. I have seen the 5C version (also posted a picture he sent me)  and it is very nicely machined, either is a nice addition if you use collet chucks and want a higher quality chuck that won't bust the piggy bank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have that 5c collet chuck, and it is a really nice piece. Unfortunately though, I bought the smaller collet set, not knowing the size limitation of each collet. Now I see that Matt has the large set in stock again. I may have to go ask the bank (a.k.a. The Wife) if I can get it.


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## jbobb1 (May 28, 2021)

Just ordered the 5c D1-4.
Thanks for posting the link mksj


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## wrmiller (May 29, 2021)

Just ordered the 72 piece 5c collet set from PM.

I'll be selling my barely used 35 piece set soon.


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## Rifleman1384 (May 30, 2021)

Mine is the D1-5, I posted a pic on the thread for my machine. I am looking at the photo in the first post here and now I am not sure I indicated mine correctly. I indicated on the middle of the taper where the collet would be and was able to get the runout down to just under .0001. I have read here and other places about having to re-adjust if needed when you change collets due to collet runout. With 1/2 collet and a 1/2 end mill without any other adjustments runout was .0002. 

When my collet set arrived with my machine I did not open or go thru them until the chuck arrived, so after I got he rack put together and started unboxing and racking the collets I was short one and had double of another. No problem, I contacted PM by email and was advised they would take care of. It took several weeks for the collet to arrive. Here is where my memory is unclear, I thought these collets were made in Taiwan when I orderd per the site. The replacement collet clearly came from mainland china because that's what it said on the box. I checked the PM site and the collets listed do not say where made and only have a 3 year warranty but I am almost sure when I ordered them with the machine it said they were made in Taiwan. Just an FYI.


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## xr650rRider (May 30, 2021)

That photo is just showing runout on the face but isn't a direct indication of runout where the collet lives.  I trued on the taper as well.  That has seemed to be the middle of the road.   If I put a 1/2" collet and use a 1/2" gauge pin, true that to around .0001", then put in a 1/4" collet and 1/4" gauge pin, I might have .001" runout, same changing to 3/8" or 7/16", they are all off a little.  Truing on the taper and all of them are around .0005" runout.  I bought the 72 piece set along with a Bison 5C set tru with D1-4 from PM over a year ago and collet set was from China.


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## mksj (May 30, 2021)

The picture of the PM/QMT 5C chuck with a test indicator is just an example, the individual checked the external and internal collet surfaces as well as with a collet/pin and they were all very good. The PM/QMT 5C collets are made in China, as well as most of the ones you see in the $200-300 range. If you look at the TIR spec for 5C collets they usually quote something in the 0.0005-0.0006" range, even for the Taiwanese types. There are high precision 5C collets from Hardinge that will run you $71+ each, so a full set can get expensive. Looking at the 5C collets offered by Lyndex, McMaster-Carr, etc. they have even worse TIR and are $25 or more each, I have an older Taiwanese set (old Enco set) and they have a bit tighter TIR. Other than Vertex, I do not know of any other company offering 5C collets from Taiwan.









						McMaster-Carr
					

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.




					www.mcmaster.com
				










Make a chuck speed handle for your 5C chuck, it will greatly speed up collet changes.


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## wrmiller (May 30, 2021)

The only thing I did when I received my 35 piece collet set was to deburr the threads on some of them. I don't remember the numbers, but when I checked the accuracy of the chuck and collets it was around a half thou or less. Good enough for the majority of stuff I do, and if I really need to get tight on something, I can.

I got tired of chasing zeros that had zero effect (pun intended) on the real-world outcome of my work.  

@mksj: I saw that pic of your speed handle years back and had to make one for myself. Works good too! Thanks!


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## Buffalo21 (May 30, 2021)

I have one of the big 5C x D1-4 collet chucks (Shars) and have a HHIP ER40 x D1-4 collet chucks (Amazon), I use the ER40 one, about 6- 7 times more the the 5C, closer to the headstock


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## wrmiller (May 30, 2021)

What does closer to the headstock get you?


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## davidpbest (May 30, 2021)

In an effort to continue to beat a dead horse, I thought I would follow-up with the reasoning that led me away from 5C and instead to ER40, taking into consideration the comments about clamping range and it's effect on TIR. 

The clamping range of a 5C collet is about 0.003".  So for a standard 5C collet to be useful, the material being clamped must be a multiple of 1/64" exactly, or within 0.003" undersized for the collet to secure the workpiece.  Looked at another way, if you want to clamp any arbitrary diameter between 1/8" and 1" using 5C collets, you would need a set of 290 collets at 0.003" increments - this doesn't exist. 

Most of my work on the lathe with smaller diameter (1" or less) bar stock will result in a final diameter that is not necessarily a multiple of 1/64" +0.000/-0.003".   If the follow-on operation requires flipping the part around in the chuck (common occurrence) then I might or might not have a 5C collet that can hold the work piece for the 2nd operation.

Now, let's take the case with ER40.  The stated clamping range of the ER40 is 0.40", but as discussed above, if TIR is important, it's better not to count on that full clamping range.  So let's assume that the conservative clamping range is 0.020" to guarantee a good TIR.  To cover the same range of 1/8" to 1" in 0.020" increments, you'd need 44 collets.  Indeed, a metric set in 1/2mm increments will cover the entire range with ZERO gaps and meet the 0.020" maximum clamping restriction.  So, it is at least possible (with the right collet set) to cover any workholding situation with ER40 and 44 collets.  The only way to have this same flexibility with 5C is to use emergency collets and machine them to exact diameter for the off-nominal dimensions.

If your workholding needs are consistently some multiple of 1/64" then either 5C or ER40 will serve the need.  But if the requirement is to hold material of any arbitrary diameter, then ER40 is a better alternative unless you want to swap out for a 3J or 4J conventional chuck, or make your own 5C emergency collets.  As Mark mentioned, a set of 23 imperial ER40 collets will cover the 1/8-1" range with a clamping range of 0.038 per increment.  This is a slightly lower clamping range than using metric 1mm increment sets where the clamping range is 0.040" per increment.  In my situation I decided to buy the metric set and fill in with half-millimeter collets for a few frequently used sizes.


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## Buffalo21 (May 30, 2021)

wrmiller said:


> What does closer to the headstock get you?


3-4” in additional length


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## Jake P (May 30, 2021)

In this discussion of 5C vs. ER it seems to me that (again, from research, not experience) there are two important considerations that would drive one's decision in addition to what has been mentioned.  They may have both been brought up, but I don't remember at this point.

The first is whether the work that you will be holding is long enough to reach the back end of the collet in the case of the ER system or if you plan on holding short pieces.  From what I can tell this is the *major* difference between these two systems.  If your work is short and you can only hold a small portion of the piece then an ER collet will not work properly.  In this case it seems to me that you have no other choice than to use a 5C system, if you are wanting to work with a collet, or go back to a jawed chuck. 

The second would be production of numerous identical parts and you are in a time equals money situation.  Then you would want the production value that is offered by a lever type collet closer with the 5C system.  Of course you could use the various methods of speeding up the collet adjustment process such as drills, "speed spindles" or an Atlas chuck, but it seems that the standard production method is the lever.

I look at this as being the same as anything else in life, and that's a matter of compromises.  As a newbie laying out a lot of money for what is now just a hobby, funds are limited and ER is cheaper, considerably.  It will have limitations that I can see being hit, but in deciding what to purchase initially I need to look at what is likely going to be fitting the most needs for the money spent.  It's a starting point.

I hope to sometime in the future, when I have gained enough experience, to procure one off work to help make some extra income and maybe pay for some of all this very expensive stuff!  Should that day come then I have little doubt that I will likely end up with both systems.


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## NEL957 (May 30, 2021)

I


Larry$ said:


> I got the 5C with adjustable back plate from QMT when I got my lathe 5 years ago. My chuck looks different and does not have the PM logo. It is a very nice chuck and I use it when the work will fit rather than a jaw chuck. The 5C collets will grip very short work. Disadvantage is the very limited range. On work less than 5/8"+- you really have to have 1/64" steps. My spin indexer and collet blocks are 5C.
> Our CNC router uses ER32 from Techniques. They claim their collet nuts are superior to ball bearing ones. They also say to insert the bit to nearly the full depth of the collet. I've heard users say that isn't necessary. We had an employee put a bit in only about 1/2 the depth of the collet trying to reach deeper with a tool. He was lucky, when the 1/2" bit exited the collet at 16,000 rpm it just dented the wall.


It is just what happens when using a cutter to go deeper when what is really needed is a longer cutter.


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## davidpbest (May 30, 2021)

wrmiller said:


> What does closer to the headstock get you?


One disadvantage of having the collet chuck right up against the spindle is that you have to crank out the compound to part off (or do other operations) right up next to the chuck.  This lowers rigidity since the tool is cantilevered out on the compound which is notoriously weak on a machine like the 1340.  If the collet chuck is further out toward the tailstock, you can pull in the compound and position the tool post directly over the compound rotational mount which significantly improves rigidity (critically important for parting operations).

I started with an ER40 collet chuck on D1-4 mount from China.  I also implemented a solid tool post which substitutes for the compound (unless cutting tapers) and vastly improves rigidity.   But with the solid tool post, the carriage would not move close enough to the spindle to perform machining operations right up next to the collet as can be seen in the setup below:








I wasn't happy with the runout on the Chinese ER40 collet chuck either, so I decided to make my own replacement chuck with Set-True adjustability, and in the process lengthen the stick-out from the spindle nose so I could get right up next to the collet with the tool as can be seen below:


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## NEL957 (May 30, 2021)

wrmiller said:


> What does closer to the headstock get you?


Put a piece of .125 stock in the chuck sticking out 3 inches then stick it out to 6 inches and see what happens when the lathe is started. The same happens when your chuck is stuck out that far.


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## davidpbest (May 30, 2021)

Jake P said:


> In this discussion of 5C vs. ER it seems to me that (again, from research, not experience) there are two important considerations that would drive one's decision in addition to what has been mentioned.  They may have both been brought up, but I don't remember at this point.
> 
> The first is whether the work that you will be holding is long enough to reach the back end of the collet in the case of the ER system or if you plan on holding short pieces.  From what I can tell this is the *major* difference between these two systems.  If your work is short and you can only hold a small portion of the piece then an ER collet will not work properly.  In this case it seems to me that you have no other choice than to use a 5C system, if you are wanting to work with a collet, or go back to a jawed chuck.
> 
> The second would be production of numerous identical parts and you are in a time equals money situation.  Then you would want the production value that is offered by a lever type collet closer with the 5C system.  Of course you could use the various methods of speeding up the collet adjustment process such as drills, "speed spindles" or an Atlas chuck, but it seems that the standard production method is the lever.


Both points are valid Jake.  In practice, I have found that the work piece needs to be inserted at least half-way into the ER40 collet to get a repeatable grip with consistent TIR.  I would *never* chuck up a tool in that manner, but for workholding, 25mm or 1" is sufficient - anything less will be hit or miss on TIR. I know Mark really likes and uses the 5C short-grip potential.

Also, in a production setup, where a 5C quick-release collet closure is employed, presumably the volume of product being produced is high enough that machining a 5C emergency collet to closely fit the material would be justified and resolve the off-nominal gaps in the collet sequences.

There is no "right answer" here - it really depends on the kind of work you intend to pursue.   Lots of people don't even stop to consider something other than 5C, or realize it comes with its own set of limitations.


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## mksj (May 30, 2021)

I agree with David, it is a matter of preference and knowing the strengths/weaknesses of different work holding systems for the type of work you are using them for. They all have their place. As far as stick-out and TIR, it is all relative if you can adjust for it, granted the farther out you get very small axial difference are magnified. The advantage of the set-tru type chucks is you can compensate for it and it holds pretty tight tolerances moving away from the chuck. At least there are two quality options with the QMT/PM chucks that people can choose one or the other at a reasonable price.

ER-40 Set-Tru readings are in 0.0001" per increment


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## Buffalo21 (May 30, 2021)

Dave,

my 14 x 40 Jet goes right to the collet face, with out extending the compound.


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## ddickey (May 30, 2021)

I don't use my compound but when I did I'm pretty sure mine did too although my lathe is a little larger.
Anything that sticks out from the spindle is going to be less rigid.


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## davidpbest (May 30, 2021)

Buffalo21 said:


> Dave,
> 
> my 14 x 40 Jet goes right to the collet face, with out extending the compound.



Right. I’ve used a couple other lathes where the carriage isn’t as restricted as the PM-1340GT when advancing toward the spindle.  This is a case where the 1340 might be peculiar - the carriage butts up against the feed rod connections on the side of the Norton gearbox well before a tool centered over the compound rotation collar is anywhere close to the collet.


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## wrmiller (May 31, 2021)

I oftentimes need to chuck up short(er) pieces, and sometimes shorter pieces of varying diameters along it's length.

My 8" PB set-tru has very long two-piece jaws/master jaws which makes this difficult. I have a ER32 collet chuck that I can grab with my 3-jaw and adjust it for near zero TIR, but I have 'discovered' that ER collets don't hold real short pieces very well. And I don't like having to deal with the nut either.

I have PM's set-tru 5C collet chuck and it works great when I'm working with a piece that fits in my limited collet set. Which isn't very often unfortunately.

I've been waiting for some time for PM to get the larger 5C set in, and just ordered it. The limited clamping range (.003"?) of the 5C collets means that I will run into parts that don't fit well, even with the 72 piece set, but in some cases I can shim the part if it's close. Or I can haul out the big honkin PB.

I have a 8" four jaw, but I don't use it much.

The older I get, the more I wish I'd gotten a 6" PB 3-jaw instead of the 8" though. This thing is getting heavier every year.


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## Larry$ (May 31, 2021)

wrmiller said:


> This thing is getting heavier every year.


Don't I know it! I've got an 8" rotary table that I'd often like to leave the 8" chuck mounted to. But the combo is too heavy for me.  May have to make a Mr. Pete crane.


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## wrmiller (May 31, 2021)

I hear you. I have a little 6" RT for that very reason.

If I could find someone with a 6" set true of a comparable quality looking for a 8" I'd do an even swap.


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## Buffalo21 (May 31, 2021)

I have a 6”, an 8” and a 10” rotary table, with a chuck mounted on them, the main reason, I modified a Harbor Freight pick up truck jib crane and mounted it directly to the column of the Franken-Mill (1940 Brigeport/1986 mill/drill (RF-31) combo). Too much weight to lift....


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## Jason812 (Jul 1, 2021)

I have a PM ER40 collet chuck on the way along with some collets and their R8-ER40 holder.  I also have a set of collet blocks and will be getting a MT3-ER40 holder as well.  I will be using the MT3 mainly to power tap in the lathe with a tapping collet.

I have a job that these will make OP2 in the lathe and OP3 in the mill so much easier.


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## Jason812 (Dec 29, 2021)

I've been using the ER40 chuck for a few months now with a Maritool Collet Nut.  I find myself using it more than the 3 jaw.  My only complaint is no wrench flat to hold the chuck while tightening or loosing the collet nut.  I'm thinking of putting one on the threads under the nut but haven't decided yet if I will or not.  That would take a pretty long endmill to clear the shoulder. 

Any way, I think I have it dialed in close enough.  I had to make two screws with #5-40 threads on one end and #6-40 on the other.  The hex is 1/4" and the straight shaft .177" and are by far the smallest parts I have made. 

The other is a rock adapter for a die grinder.  Whether it will last or not, I don't know.  5/8-11 thread to 1/4" shaft out of 4140.

I'm really liking this chuck along with the collet blocks for the mill.

That scratch on my work bench is bugging me.




Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## xr650rRider (Dec 29, 2021)

I use my chuck key and put in one of the D1-4 locks when I need to loosen/tighten collet nut.  Not sure what chuck you have, so maybe not possible for you.


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## davidpbest (Dec 29, 2021)

xr650rRider said:


> I use my chuck key and put in one of the D1-4 locks when I need to loosen/tighten collet nut.  Not sure what chuck you have, so maybe not possible for you.


Ditto.


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## Jason812 (Dec 29, 2021)

xr650rRider said:


> I use my chuck key and put in one of the D1-4 locks when I need to loosen/tighten collet nut.  Not sure what chuck you have, so maybe not possible for you.


I do the same but it seems like I'm always one second away from smashing my knuckles.  Perhaps I need to make a longer handle to fit in the square to clear the machine more.  Second thought, that sounds easier than putting flats on the chuck.  

I think I have used the 3 jaw once in the last 3 months.  I think the ER40 system is one of the best tools I have bought.


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## xr650rRider (Dec 29, 2021)

Yes, I built a replacement chuck key that is 7.25" long out of 7/8" O1 drill rod.  Fits all chucks and so much nicer up out of the way.


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## Ischgl99 (Dec 29, 2021)

Did your chuck come with radial holes you can put a bar in to help tighten?  I use a punch that is slightly smaller than the hole to restrain the chuck when loosening or tightening.


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## Larry$ (Dec 29, 2021)

wrmiller said:


> I have PM's set-tru 5C collet chuck and it works great


I also have that 5C chuck and use it when ever I can as opposed to a jaw chuck. It will hold very short parts pretty well. I've got the 32 piece collet set and need to get some by 64ths for the smaller sizes. I'm no expert but I find that 5C chuck to be very high quality. I dialed it in with gage pins and it repeats amazingly well.


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## ahazi (Dec 30, 2021)

Larry$ said:


> I also have that 5C chuck and use it when ever I can as opposed to a jaw chuck. It will hold very short parts pretty well. I've got the 32 piece collet set and need to get some by 64ths for the smaller sizes. I'm no expert but I find that 5C chuck to be very high quality. I dialed it in with gage pins and it repeats amazingly well.


My experience is the same. The first PM 5C chuck that I received had a problem, the internal bore was too small for some collets. PM replaced it. I have the 72 piece collet set and so far so good. I manage to handle stock up to 1-1/8" and it can hold very short pieces nicely. 

Not sure were the limitations of the 5C for my beginner level use are and if an ER40 will be needed.

I also started using the Bison 8" 4 jaw combination (self centering) chuck and it is amazing! I am not sure if the original PM 6" 3 jaw chuck (not set-tru) will go on the PM1340GT again... The only downside is the chuck's weight of 52 lb. I built a sledge to make it easier to install and remove it.

Ariel


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## Larry$ (Dec 30, 2021)

ahazi said:


> I am not sure if the original PM 6" 3 jaw chuck (not set-tru) will go on the PM1340GT again..


I replaced the 6" 3 jaw that came with my PM1440HD with a new South Bend 8" 3 jaw with reversible jaws. The jaws are really tightly fit. Maybe too tightly but there is no slop when changing in to out so that is good.  The South Bend name has nothing to do with the original company. The chuck is made in Taiwan.  I managed to get the D1-4 back plate a very good fit. The chuck grips quite uniformly over its entire range. Far better than the OEM chuck. It is heavy and I have made a wooden sled to mount it with. Slides right into the mounting stud holes. I use the same sled to store the chuck on.


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## Jason812 (Dec 30, 2021)

Ischgl99 said:


> Did your chuck come with radial holes you can put a bar in to help tighten?  I use a punch that is slightly smaller than the hole to restrain the chuck when loosening or tightening.


I found a rod from a scrapped printer that fits.  I'm going to test it right now.  I like how I'm away from the casting and if I like this, I'll make one with a thicker handle as this piece is .310" the entire length.


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## IamNotImportant (Jan 3, 2022)

What i am wondering is using that 5C Set-Tru chuck along with a 5C ER40 holder.. would you not then have the best of both worlds?


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## Ischgl99 (Jan 3, 2022)

IamNotImportant said:


> What i am wondering is using that 5C Set-Tru chuck along with a 5C ER40 holder.. would you not then have the best of both worlds?
> 
> View attachment 390699


That’s an interesting idea!  I had no idea there was a 5c to ER40 holder.  Does that have a through hole?  If so, I think that might work well as a first op with raw stock instead of using an ER40 chuck and having to switch to the 5c chuck for second ops.  You could also use that for any parts that are not close enough to the 5c collet sizes you have, provided they are long enough to be gripped sufficiently.


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## IamNotImportant (Jan 3, 2022)

Ischgl99 said:


> That’s an interesting idea!  I had no idea there was a 5c to ER40 holder.  Does that have a through hole?  If so, I think that might work well as a first op with raw stock instead of using an ER40 chuck and having to switch to the 5c chuck for second ops.  You could also use that for any parts that are not close enough to the 5c collet sizes you have, provided they are long enough to be gripped sufficiently.


as for "through hole" i am going to "presume" so.. apparently as i can see..the answer is yes.. as far as i can tell.. but then things can be misleading at times.. i think personally, it would be a great idea..


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## Jason812 (Jan 10, 2022)

I ended up making a bar similar to the punch used above.  Little over 6" total length 1" OD with the pin portion turned .315" for a length of .450".  Then tapered the junction at 30 degrees.  Been using it for a week.  So much better now.

I don't know why I over think things .  This was a super simple solution.


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## HighWall (Jan 11, 2022)

I have a Bison 6 jaw.  I wonder if I couldn't just grab the 5C adapter in it.


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## mksj (Jan 11, 2022)

At one point I tried using a ER40 block in my 4 Jaw chuck and the TIR/skew was a problem as well as being awkward. I see no reason to have a 5C to ER40 adapter, you are limited by the diameter of the 5C, you have more stick out from the chuck and more compounded TIR from stacking. By the time you are all said an done you would be better off just getting a direct mount ER40 chuck and a 5C chuck. I have both, I made my own ER40 set-true chuck, I only use it for odd diameter work and prefer the 5C. Technically an ER chuck system has more holding power if the stock extends the full length of the collet, but I have never had an issue with holding power of my 5C.

The other advantage I see for using a dedicated 5C or ER40 chuck is you can use your hands very close to the chuck without fear that a jaw is going to rip off a part of your finger. The main reason for my initially posting the information on these set-true style collet chucks was that they were nicely made, accurate and reasonably priced. I know a couple of people that purchased the QMT 5C set-true chucks and have been very satisfied with them.
Mark


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## HighWall (Jan 12, 2022)

My issue is my lathe is a Clausing and requires a L00 backing plate.  I already have a 5C chuck as well and a set of ER32 collets I use with my 935TV.  I was just thinking how I might be able to use the ER collets on both tools without significant expense. The same makers have 5C to ER32 adapters.


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## mksj (Jan 12, 2022)

Something you might consider, you can purchase a semi-finished back plate, and buy a ER32 lathe chuck to mount to it. I would turn/drill the hack plate to match the chuck. If you want a set-true type you could either buy one or modify something like the one below and add some small Allen screws to the perimeter. You should be under 0.001" TIR if you turn the back plate on the lathe.








						6" L00 Semi-finished adapter Plate for LATHE CHUCKS  #ADP-06-L00SM-NEW  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 6" L00 Semi-finished adapter Plate for LATHE CHUCKS  #ADP-06-L00SM-NEW at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				











						ER32 Collet Chuck 100mm Diameter Compact Lathe Tight Tolerance for Milling US  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for ER32 Collet Chuck 100mm Diameter Compact Lathe Tight Tolerance for Milling US at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


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## Christianstark (Jan 12, 2022)

Here's how mine trues up on my 1340GT.


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## Jake P (Jan 12, 2022)

This is a simple question that I can't seem to see an answer for anywhere I've looked.  And not currently having, nor have I ever used, said collet chuck and collets I ask the following:

I suspect that like the ER40 chuck that PM offers (which I own), the 5C chuck can pass a long rod through the headstock?  And that would hold true up to the max collet diameter of 1 1/8"?


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## mksj (Jan 12, 2022)

The largest stock that can pass through a 5C is 1", and if it is 1-2 thousandth over probably not if you have a internally threaded 5C collet. The larger size 5C collets, are stepped to a depth of ~1.6".


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## Christianstark (Jan 12, 2022)

Jake P said:


> This is a simple question that I can't seem to see an answer for anywhere I've looked.  And not currently having, nor have I ever used, said collet chuck and collets I ask the following:
> 
> I suspect that like the ER40 chuck that PM offers (which I own), the 5C chuck can pass a long rod through the headstock?  And that would hold true up to the max collet diameter of 1 1/8"?


The back is open to pass stock through the headstock. The collet is closed with a key on the side, so no obstructions through the headstock.


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## Christianstark (Jan 12, 2022)

mksj said:


> The largest stock that can pass through a 5C is 1", and if it is 1-2 thousandth over probably not if you have a internally threaded 5C collet. The larger size 5C collets, are stepped to a depth of ~1.6".
> View attachment 391932


The PM 5C collets go to 1 1/8 per their website. I am guessing it will not pass through the back if over 1" stock?


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## ahazi (Jan 12, 2022)

Christianstark said:


> The PM 5C collets go to 1 1/8 per their website. I am guessing it will not pass through the back if over 1" stock?
> 
> 
> View attachment 391934


This is correct, it is a stepped collet, all the way through up to 1.000". The PM set go up to 1-1/8". I can check again in the shop to make sure that my answer is 100% correct.

Ariel


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## mksj (Jan 12, 2022)

If you look at the picture you posted you can see the step in the collets above 1". As I said the inside diameter of the 5C collet is spec. at 1" or less. When you get into larger diameter or longer stock above 1" I move to my 3J or 4J chucls which have higher holding power over a longer section of the rod.


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## Jason812 (Jan 13, 2022)

Jake P said:


> This is a simple question that I can't seem to see an answer for anywhere I've looked.  And not currently having, nor have I ever used, said collet chuck and collets I ask the following:
> 
> I suspect that like the ER40 chuck that PM offers (which I own), the 5C chuck can pass a long rod through the headstock?  And that would hold true up to the max collet diameter of 1 1/8"?


Maritool has a 1-3/16" ER40 collet.  I haven't found a larger one nor do I have it... yet.


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## blaser.306 (Jan 24, 2022)

I just ordered one of the PM ER-40 D1-4 collet chucks, replacing the HHIP version that was not ground properly. I wanted to know if anyone that has one could give me an od measurement of the body where the Tommy bar holes are and the diameter of those holes so I can make my wrench in advance of it's arrival.


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## Jason812 (Jan 24, 2022)

I got 4.926" but the punch or handle method works very well.


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## blaser.306 (Jan 24, 2022)

Thank you for the fast reply ,that's what I needed, and what would be the diameter of the bore the pin / punch is going into ?


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## Jason812 (Jan 24, 2022)

blaser.306 said:


> Thank you for the fast reply ,that's what I needed, and what would be the diameter of the bore the pin / punch is going into ?


. 315" diameter x .465" long. 30 degree angle on the taper according to the compound. 

1" od junk cold roll that I skimmed the scale off.  Overall is 6.6" only because that's how long it was when I dug it out of the dumpster. If I weren't cheap, I'd use better material but this has made a world of a difference instead of using the chuck key on the d1-4 mount sockets.


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## blaser.306 (Jan 24, 2022)

Again , Thank you . If I can find / upload the picture, I made a spanner for the er collet I made for my King 10x22 from a piece of 5/8" plate a36 . I bored the appropriate diameter from this rather than find close fitting pipe/ tube , knowing it would likely spring when parted.


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## Jason812 (Jan 24, 2022)

Muzzle brake fixture.  1" 304 stainless turned down to 15/16 to be held in a collet block on the mill.  I put it back in the lathe to see what the runout would be after parting and the "barrel" portion behind the threads had zero indicator movement, same as the chuck.  Either I got lucky or the Precision Matthews collets are pretty good too.

I just tested it with a A2 flash hider.  Haven't made my own yet.


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## Jason812 (Jan 24, 2022)

blaser.306 said:


> Again , Thank you . If I can find / upload the picture, I made a spanner for the er collet I made for my King 10x22 from a piece of 5/8" plate a36 . I bored the appropriate diameter from this rather than find close fitting pipe/ tube , knowing it would likely spring when parted.


I should have specified, those dimensions are what I turned the pin to.


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