# D 1-X spindle mount adapter



## matthewsx (Jul 29, 2020)

My new to me Bolton 13x40 has a funky bolted on chuck which seems more like what you'd see on a mini lathe than something of this size. I was thinking of making or sourcing some kind of adapter that could be bolted to the spindle and would accept D 1-4 or 1-5 backplates or chucks.

This guy http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?t=4249 claims to have done it with a threaded spindle so it could concievably be done. Has anyone on here done such a thing and if so do you have any tips for me.

This will obviously be a project for after I get the major problems fixed but I would like to plan ahead if possible.




John


----------



## extropic (Jul 30, 2020)

What type (specification) of spindle nose does it have?

One obvious issue with using an adapter is increasing the overhang, which increases bearing loads, reduces stiffness and consumes some of your working envelope.


----------



## matthewsx (Jul 30, 2020)

extropic said:


> What type (specification) of spindle nose does it have?
> 
> One obvious issue with using an adapter is increasing the overhang, which increases bearing loads, reduces stiffness and consumes some of your working envelope.



That’s one of the reasons I’m looking into this. The spindle just has a flat the backing plat is bolted to like a mini lathe. If I can do this it might actually help to have more overhang depending on how the gap repair goes. I’m not too worried about loosing working space or rigidity, I did trade for a 6” Craftsman after all  

john


----------



## extropic (Jul 30, 2020)

I'm still in the dark here. I'm not familiar with your lathe. When I Google "Bolton 13x40" I see a CNC lathe. Is that what you have?
I couldn't find it on LathesUK. Does it have clones with different names?
I don't know anything about mini-lathes. It's hard to believe that a 13" CNC lathe spindle nose has only a flat face mount without any registration features (pilot, taper, pins) to establish concentricity. It's also difficult to believe that the spindle nose is proprietary and doesn't conform to some known standard.
Then you mention a "gap repair". What gap repair? Is there a different thread regarding this lathe?
Totally in the dark here.


----------



## ericc (Jul 30, 2020)

How close can you get to the chuck with the tool if the gap is not installed?  That lathe sounds like a real basket case.  Did you do a test cut on it yet?


----------



## mikey (Jul 30, 2020)

It should be doable, John. I do agree with the overhang reducing rigidity but you won't know how much impact this will have until you try it, right? Of greater concern to me is the stacking tolerances such an arrangement brings so you'll have to make sure that the camlock adapter plate is accurately mounted. I think you can pull this off.


----------



## extropic (Jul 30, 2020)

OK. I found your main (I think) thread about this lathe.

I've never owned a gap bed lathe but I've read that once the piece is removed, it's unlikely to ever be precisely aligned with the bed again.
Having the gap filler broken in two may further exacerbate precise alignment. 
How about putting the gap filler repair at the bottom of the action-item list?

If you actually make a spindle nose adapter it will add at least 2" to the spindle nose, covering some of that gap.


----------



## middle.road (Jul 30, 2020)

Is anything here close to yours?
We need to figure out the actual spindle nose.




__





						Metal Lathe Machines - Bolton Tools
					

Bolton Tools is the Leading Source for Metal Lathes. Our Lathe Line Includes Metal Lathes, Mini Lathes & Combo Lathes. We're Know You'll Find the Perfect Lathe.



					boltontool.com


----------



## matthewsx (Jul 30, 2020)

Sorry, here's a picture of the machine in question. I've been working these days so much less time on the forum (or in the shop)....




Typical low end Chinese production. Yes I knew it was a project when I got it but seemed like an okay trade for a 6" Craftsman. The gap coming out was a surprise but fortunately it didn't go through anyone's windshield when it happened. Also fortunate I was able to recover it from the freeway median.

The center of the cross slide is about 6" from the front of the chuck without going past the gap and can get about 2 or 3" closer with the compound at a right angle. So, it might be helpful if I can make it accurate enough. 

I have a phase converter coming so I should be able to fire it up when I get back here in a week or so. Building an adapter vs. fixing the gap is kind of a chicken and egg deal where I don't know if I can make one on this lathe without getting closer to the spindle.

It's entirely possible all I'll end up with is scrap metal but I figure it's worth a try.


JOhn


----------



## middle.road (Jul 30, 2020)

I knew you'd posted a picture previously, but I was have difficulty finding it. (operator error, blaming it on the heat.)
Found it -=- Here -=-
Looks so similar to my Taiwan 1440 Birmingham. Do the tags note what year was this one was made in?

I prefer the style of the Power Lever and the way it is 'Doglegged' compared to how the Birmingham is, I may ask you for some detailed pictures in the future.

Do you have a paper or electronic copy of the manual? 



matthewsx said:


> Sorry, here's a picture of the machine in question. I've been working these days so much less time on the forum (or in the shop)....
> 
> View attachment 332025
> 
> ...


----------



## matthewsx (Jul 30, 2020)

Here's the manual if anyone wants to look.









						Bolton HA330 Lathe
					

Manual for a Bolton HA330 13x40 metal lathe.




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




John


----------



## matthewsx (Jul 30, 2020)

middle.road said:


> I knew you'd posted a picture previously, but I was have difficulty finding it. (operator error, blaming it on the heat.)
> Found it -=- Here -=-
> Looks so similar to my Taiwan 1440 Birmingham. Do the tags note what year was this one was made in?
> 
> ...


It was built in 2012, wish it was Taiwanese but this will have to do for now.


----------



## extropic (Jul 30, 2020)

Thank you Dan, for posting a link to Bolton.
I guess this lathe is a equivalent to the 13 x 37 shown on the Bolton site.
I looked at the specs and the Manual, available on-line, and found no mention of the spindle nose configuration. CRAZY!

John,
Have you contacted Bolton about a replacement Gap piece?


----------



## matthewsx (Jul 31, 2020)

extropic said:


> Thank you Dan, for posting a link to Bolton.
> I guess this lathe is a equivalent to the 13 x 37 shown on the Bolton site.
> I looked at the specs and the Manual, available on-line, and found no mention of the spindle nose configuration. CRAZY!
> 
> ...



I have tried to contact them a couple of times with no sucess so far. Word on the street is they really don't support anything.

John


----------



## middle.road (Jul 31, 2020)

Has a mount I've not seen before.
Will (@darkzero)  posted a link to a video of Stefan's, his looks kind of similar.








						D1  camlock
					

This shows the number of pins:




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




Cool - it has a '*Bear*' of a spindle! 
Decent manual, wish that I had one for the Birmingham like that.


----------



## ericc (Jul 31, 2020)

Hmmm, 3 inches away with the compound extended, that's a long way.  At least you won't crash your compound into the chuck.  That is going to make parting tough. That chuck adapter idea is starting to sound good. For parting, it may be possible to get by with less accuracy for the gap piece. A lantern toolpost with an angled tool could help as well. I just tried a lantern toolpost with my lathe. It worked quite well within its limitations. It had to be tight, else it would try to turn. It also took a little longer to adjust the height of the tool tip. The setup was very tight, and I couldn't get my tool gauge in there, but the old vertical feeler gauge trick worked.


----------



## matthewsx (Aug 9, 2020)

I had the chance to take the chuck off and see what's going on there, holy thrifty donkey design  Have a look and tell me what you think....



spindle with taper for retaining the chuck.



chuck with standoffs and nuts for locking to spindle



spindle detail



  there's a  captured disk behind the spindle which rotates once the standoff nuts get past.




Backing plate?






Not so much, it's actually part of the chuck....

John


----------



## matthewsx (Aug 9, 2020)

I figure I need to address this pretty early since I only have the one 3 jaw and all Bolton offers is a faceplate for turning between centers.





__





						Search - ha330
					






					boltontool.com
				




I'll need at least a 4 jaw, but not being able to quickly change chucks, or source better ones kinda stinks.

I could sacrifice this one to make an adapter but if that doesn't work I'll be left with no chuck at all, hopefully I'll be able to find another one of these chucks or a backing plate that will fit this taper.

John


----------



## matthewsx (Aug 9, 2020)

Taper goes from 3.140 to 3.225 if that rings a bell with anyone.


----------



## matthewsx (Aug 9, 2020)

lathes.co.uk does it again.



			http://www.lathes.co.uk/spindlenose/spindlenoses.pdf
		


It's a DIN 55027 or ISO 702/III Size 5 with bayonet ring fixing.

Now to find backplates....

John


----------



## matthewsx (Aug 9, 2020)

Seems to be popular in Germany, might be able to get some high class chucks to fit this....


----------



## mikey (Aug 9, 2020)

Ooh, maybe a Rohm?


----------



## matthewsx (Aug 9, 2020)

Ordered something from eBay, will see if it fits when it arrives....


----------



## matthewsx (Aug 9, 2020)

mikey said:


> Ooh, maybe a Rohm?



Sure, like this one....









						Login - Login | Hoffmann Group
					






					www.hoffmann-group.com


----------



## matthewsx (Aug 9, 2020)

This is what I ordered, figure if it's right I'll get the other two.









						Back Plate,Ctaper,5in C-2 Din55027  | eBay
					

Back plate C-Taper for Bison Scroll Chucks 5in C-2 DIN 55027 Bison-Bial.



					www.ebay.com
				




Or maybe I should order them now? 

John


----------



## matthewsx (Aug 9, 2020)

$50 WTH....

John


----------



## mikey (Aug 9, 2020)

That's dirt cheap for a back plate, let alone one from Toolmex.  If it works, I would have 3-4 as back ups so I can add whatever chuck I wanted. Direct mount chucks are going to be expensive so a back plate is a good option.


----------



## matthewsx (Aug 9, 2020)

I ordered the 6" and 8" backplates too,

John


----------



## matthewsx (Aug 9, 2020)

A little reading over on model engineer and I might just be happy with this arrangement. Especially if I can get backplates cheap....

John


----------



## extropic (Aug 9, 2020)

Trying to understand the features of the spindle nose set-up.

What is the OD of the flange on the flange nuts (chuck mounting studs).
Will the nuts pass through the large end of the key-hole slots (radial) in the disc (with the knurled OD).


----------



## matthewsx (Aug 10, 2020)

extropic said:


> Trying to understand the features of the spindle nose set-up.
> 
> What is the OD of the flange on the flange nuts (chuck mounting studs).
> Will the nuts pass through the large end of the key-hole slots (radial) in the disc (with the knurled OD).


 
Yes, that's exactly how it works. I originally thought it was some one-off thing but research and measuring confirmed it is actually a standard, just not very common here. The studs slide through the "bayonet ring" with the nuts attached, there is also a "driving lug" that protrudes from the spindle and fits into a corresponding hole in the back of the chuck or backing plate. You then rotate the bayonet ring and tighten the nuts down to secure the chuck against it's taper which I think is the same as a D-1 type. There are also a few small screws that go through the bayonet ring to keep it from rotating even if the nuts are loose.

So, now that I know what the beast is called (DIN 55027) I've ordered some backplates from Toolmex that hopefully will mate up to the spindle and allow me to use plain backed chucks. There's not a lot of info/discussion about this mounting standard but the guys in England who have it seem to like it just fine. Time will tell, but if the backplates I've ordered work I'm good to go with this spindle, no extension needed 

John


----------



## matthewsx (Aug 18, 2020)

All too small, might be able to turn them bigger though.

John


----------

