# Does anyone have a Drill Doctor?



## Pcmaker

I'm tempted to buy a Drill Doctor 750X after I've seen reviews of it on Yotube. Seems to be the consensus best/easiest way to re-sharpen dull drills. 

I haven't seen any opinions stated yet by machinists. I was wondering if this tool is often used in the machining community.


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## bill stupak

I had one and it worked okay, Getting the bit in the proper position in the holder was hit and miss for me. I did successfully sharpen a load of bits, but it was a touch too fiddley for me.


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## kb58

I have one and was disappointed with its performance until I watched some YouTube videos that recommended settings different from the manufacturer. Much happier with it now.

Do a search on "drill doctor" or "drill dr" here, as there have been threads in the past.


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## Pcmaker

kb58 said:


> I have one and was disappointed with its performance until I watched some YouTube videos that recommended settings different from the manufacturer. Much happier with it now.
> 
> Do a search on "drill doctor" or "drill dr" here, as there have been threads in the past.



Which video did you watch?


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## tech610

I had one for many years, but recently I gave it away. It took too much time to sharpen a bit an it never looked right. I watched all the videos and read all instructions and articles about it. 
After I found this video I never went back to a Drill Doctor 



Toms Techniques
When I was a kid in a high school shop classes, this was the only way they teach us how to do it. Fifty years later I realised that my teachers were right.


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## NCjeeper

I have one. It works decent. As mentioned it can be fickle.


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## higgite

Pcmaker said:


> I haven't seen any opinions stated yet by machinists. I was wondering if this tool is often used in the machining community.


Try here... https://www.hobby-machinist.com/search/114708/?q=drill+doctor&o=relevance

Tom


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## pontiac428

I have one.  Had it for 25 years.  I don't know if it is identical to the current 750 or not, but mine has been nothing but a pleasure.  Easy, versatile, and precise.  I sharpen big bits on my Sheckel, but for everyday metal bits I use the little DD.  It has an indexing fixture in the side to position the bits and lock the collets, never had any problems there.  Heavy grinds require re-indexing midway through because that's how helical flutes work.  Small stuff is a quick and easy operation.  You can have mine if you can pry it out of my cold, dead hands, otherwise you're going to have to get your own.


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## Janderso

Those Drill Doctors are quite interesting. You can pay anywhere from $125 to $2,000 as I recall.
There has to be a difference. I think they use CBN/Diamond wheels. I wonder if there is a way to clean the wheels (remove the binder when glazed)
Let us know what you decide.


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## tjb

I agree with John (pontiac428).  I've never tried to sharpen my own bits before, but I bought a Drill Doctor 750X a few months ago and have been totally satisfied.  It strikes me as being pretty much idiot proof.  I've only sharpened a handful of bits so far - as large as 1/2" - and every one has turned out extremely well.  I'd have no hesitation to buy it again or to recommend it.

Regards


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## tjb

Janderso said:


> Those Drill Doctors are quite interesting. You can pay anywhere from $125 to $2,000 as I recall.
> There has to be a difference. I think they use CBN/Diamond wheels. I wonder if there is a way to clean the wheels (remove the binder when glazed)
> Let us know what you decide.


Mine was $130.99 plus tax/shipping - $150-ish.


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## 682bear

I have always hand sharpened my drills... until my eyes started getting old. I realized one day that I could no longer see well enough...

I bought a 750X... I really like it.

-Bear


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## Pops

I’ve always hand sharpened mine. I have a DD that has been sitting on the shelf for years. Eyes are getting bad now so guess I’ll start using it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cbellanca

I have one and it works fine.  Not all drill bits have the same twist. The setting in the drill Dr. indexing slot will need to change based on the twist.


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## Shopsweeper

I have a DD 750 and I like it well enough.  It lets me put a fair edge on without thought or fuss (or using a 6x magnifying visor).

I "graduated" to a Darex 2500 that my father bought for me at an auction.  Then, I bought a Darex 390 series with a .gov lot of tools (I was bidding on a Mag Drill and and index full of annular cutters and the Darex was a suprise in the bottom of the crate.

I still use that Drill Doctor for 118° on small bits.  I move the 2 bigger units around for special grinds and materials.


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## tweinke

I have a DD750 also, works like a charm on most bits. I did manage to get a set with an odd twist that just wont sharpen correctly with the DD. They do allude to that in the manual.


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## Bi11Hudson

I use a DD 750 for smaller drills. But they only will go so small, I think 3/32". Anything smaller must be done with a Dremel under a bench glass. Then there's the Darex, I forget the model number. It's essentially an oversized Drill Doctor with a lot of adjustments.  Both take some lots of care to set up, but when they're right they do a beautiful job.

The biggest problem I have is the "leaves" that align the flutes of the drill. My sense of touch went south for the winter and decided to stay. And the "leaves" are very sensitive. And on a severely damaged drill need to be reset for every couple of passes. 

The Drill Doctor won't do odd spirals, the Darex will. Aluminium and masonry drills and the like. . . The Drill Doctor is fixed for 118* points, the Darex is adjustable. But at $1000+ new for the Darex, I'd say you get what you pay for. The Drill Doctor is *not* a magical, do all solution for dull drills. But it's a lot simpler than a manual system and gives a good finish when the "leaves" are set up right.

I bought mine on a whim when times were flush. With several sets from Nr80 through letter sizes and dozens of loose fractional drills, plus metrics, plus. . . I'd say the machine earned it's keep. So much so that I went and found a machine for doing larger drills than the Drill Doctor would handle. What you find would likely be different but if you can justify the cost it's better than a pile of dull drills.

.


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## Cooter Brown

I had one but only used it to grind TIG tungsten.......lol


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## AGCB97

I got mine for FREE and that's what it was worth. Sharpened a few drills along with ruining others.
 Sold it for the price I paid for it  
Aaron


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## projectnut

I have the older DD750, now referred to as a "Classic.  It worked fine for many years, but as you might guess being primarily made of plastic it eventually started to wear and would no longer sharpen bits properly.  In all fairness I probably over worked it.  At the time I was sharpening about 50 bits per month. At 50 bits per month for over 10 years it did in excess of 6,000 sharpening's before I gave up on it.  I put the DD on the shelf and started searching for a better machine.  The drills piled up for nearly a year as I was in no rush to shell out big bucks.

As luck would have it a shop in our area was moving to a new location.  They had purchased a Black Diamond drill grinder as part of an auction lot and never used it.  The thing sat in a corner for over 3 years before they decided it was time to go. They knew I was in the market for a grinder and gave me a call.  We agreed on a price, and my problem was solved.  

I now have and use  Black Diamond model BW65 drill grinder.  It was originally built in 1974 for a local National Guard repair depot as part of a  military contract.  I have no idea why they purchased it in that the machine is 220 3phase, and there was no 3 phase power in their building.  It sat unused in the shop from 1974 to until around 2010 when it was sold at auction.  It sat unused another 3+ years in the new owners shop before he offered it to me.

When I acquired it about the only thing I had to do was clean off the dust, add a static phase converter, repair a damaged switch, and put it to use.  It's made sharpening drills a whole lot quicker and easier.  The first week I had it was the most boring week of my life.  I literally spent days at a time sharpening my backlog of drills.  In total I would guess there was between 300 and 500.  I still sharpen a fair amount of drills, but I'd guess todays volume is somewhere half of what I was doing.  If I do them on a more regular basis it takes less than an hour a month to keep up to speed.

I guess the whole point of this rambling is that depending on the volume of bits you need to sharpen there are options.  If you're in the 5-10 bits per month the DD will probably be all you'll ever need.  If the volume gets near the range I've experienced there are better, albeit more expensive, longer lasting alternatives.  In our area the Drill Doctor 750X with the accessories runs around $150.00.  I paid slightly over $300.00 for the Black Diamond with the roll around cabinet, all the collets, accessories, and a spare wheel.  I do see occasionally see machines similar to the one I purchased at similar prices.  I doubt you'll find the exact model in that it was a 3 phase machine built for a military contract.  All other Black Diamond machines I've seen are 220 single phase.

Here are a couple pictures of my Black Diamond machine.


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## WesPete66

I also have a DD 750. I have an odd habit of buying any used drill bit I see (auctions, flea market..), so I get lots of use out of it. Works great for me. Only problem is an occasional bit that it just will not sharpen. Maybe those have an odd twist like others have commented on.?
Pretty sure mine is adjustable between 118 to 135 degrees (have to look to be sure).


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## kb58

The 750X is adjustable from 118 to 135 degrees. Perhaps the early version isn't.


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## reds

I have a 750x...Works very well when you seat the twist correctly....


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## atunguyd

kb58 said:


> The 750X is adjustable from 118 to 135 degrees. Perhaps the early version isn't.


I have the 550 which is about 8 years old and it is adjustable for 118 to 135. I think all DDs are able to do both these angles 

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk


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## Buffalo21

I have a DD 750X, actually it’s my third one, I wore the first two out. I’ve done thousands and thousands of drill bits, never had an issue, I bought a high buck Darex (cheap) at an auction, working on getting all of the necessary parts needed to make it work.


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## yendor

If you follow the instructions CAREFULLY and COMPLETELY it works just fine. 
You do have to make sure you have the drill bit aligned properly in the holder, but once all that is in place it's pretty simple.
As always it's a take your time - check your work - and go.


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## BGHansen

I have a 750x and have been very happy with it. I hand grind anything bigger than 1/2". Attempt to hand grind ones under 1/8".

Bruce


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## COMachinist

+ 1 here, I have had mine for 4+ years and it will do up to 3/4” drills. It work good and don’t take 12 min using a drill protractor.  It will sharpen HSS as well as carbide drill.
CH


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## projectnut

A few questions for all of you using the Drill Doctors.  

1.   What is the monthly or annual volume of drills being sharpened? 

2.  What is the condition of the drills needing to be sharpened.  Are the tips chipped, or just dull?

3.  Do you use both the coarse and fine wheels?  According to the manual for my older DD750 the coarse wheel is to be used mainly to remove material to eliminate chipped cutting edges, while the fine wheel is for light touchups and finishing.

4.  On average how much time is spent on each drill from start to finish, excluding time to split points?

5.  Do you sharpen left hand drills?

One thing I noticed on my older DD machine is that while it could handle angles of 118* and 135* it would only handle those 2 specific angles, and standard twist drills.  There is no provision (at least that I could find) to sharpen those with a slower or parabolic twist or different point angle.  That may not be important to some, but in the last few years I've found the parabolics work better for clearing chips in deep holes.  Reducing and in some cases eliminating the need for peck drilling.

The nice thing about the Black Diamond machine is that is has the capability of sharpening any tip angle from  80* to 140*.  Another nice feature is with the collet system it can handle fractional drill sizes from 1/16" to to 3/4", numbers sizes from 1 to 70, and letters from A to Z.  I currently have collets for all the fractions, letters, and numbers down to #30.  I looked into additional number collets, but at $42.00 per copy I can buy a lot of number drills at less than $1.50 per unit before they would be cost effective.

I'm not trying to talk anyone into spending the money for a Black Diamond unit unless you stumble across one in decent shape in a price range similar to what I paid.  I'm just noting the differences in capabilities between a "hobby" grade machine, and a "professional" grade one.  In my opinion the DD is an adequate machine for low volume basic drill grinding.  The BD or other professional grade machines have what I would consider the luxuries, or bells and whistles that come in handy when confronted with a variety of materials, point angles, relief angles, and twists.


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## GunsOfNavarone

I'm looking for a sharpener as we speak. Doing searches here and without reading THIS thread, I feel like I can sum up peoples opinions of the DD750.
I purchased the Norseman 115pc hi moly set and I'm needing a couple sharpened. I'd like a good sharpener...but maybe not $1400 good. I feel like people say the DD does a _decent _job...once you get it setup right. A lot say it leaves a rough finish...some say they're junk. I know many say just do it by hand. Tried it. I'm not THERE yet. Seems like there has to be a good sharpener sub $300? No? I hate dull drills, honestly it's just easier and sort of cheaper to just replace as you go, though that's wasteful. I really do want to find a viable answer. Found that post someone made recently about a guy that sharpens carbide end mills/bits etc. Maybe that's an answer, I dunno. (Fox Tool Co.)

EDIT
Thoughts on this?
NOT a DD750


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## GunsOfNavarone

After watching the video of the gentleman hand sharpening, I have to ask myself, how could the DD750 do that complex of a grind? 3 angles? reducing the web/chisel point? I'd like to learn to hand skills, but I'm not practicing on my Norseman's nor do I have a year of practicing before I can actually sharpen what I need sharp now. ROCK/ME/HARDPLACE. If nothing else, maybe the DD750 get get me through in the interim?


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## tweinke

The DD is not a bad tool. It will work nicely on 99% of bits with the exception of the ones with an odd twist. Mine leaves a nice finish and quite honestly I would buy another DD if this one dies


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## pontiac428

If a person can't figure out how to get good results out of a Drill Doctor, they wouldn't stand a snowball's chance of figuring out a real commercial grinder.  If you are smarter than a 4th grader and only have $300 to spend, you will probably like the DD; I sure do.  It's made by Darex, it splits points, it leaves a fine finish, and it takes up less space than a transistor radio.  Real grinders take setup time that isn't required with the DD.  Real grinders are expensive, and can be a lot like buying a mill or lathe when it comes to spending half of the machine's cost again for arbors, grinding wheels, fixtures, and accessories.


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## BGHansen

That's an interesting grinder you posted a link to on Amazon.  It doesn't appear to do 118 and 135 degrees unless you had a specific grinding wheel (?).  My concern is support for anything on it.  Might be much better than a DD, but buyer beware.

The drill doctor has a collet to mount the bit.  There are a couple of fingers to radially align the flutes as you tighten the collet.  The detail that the collet drops into at the grinding station can tilt up/down relative to the grinding wheel.  I was taught to hand grind by bringing the cutting edge square into the grinding wheel, then twist and lift to grind a relief behind the cutting edge.  The DD accomplishes this with a cam on the collet.  As you twist the collet, the cam rocks the collet in the detail giving you the same type of relief.

It is what it is for around $125 for a 750X.  Meets the needs of 99.99% of hobby machinists.  I probably sharpen 200 drill bits a year on it.  Still on the original diamond wheel that came with it whatever grit that is after 3 or 4 years.  I doubt that Darex (the manufacturer) uses any DD's in their factory to sharpen bits used in their manufacturing process as they have the $1500 Darex models (or better) available.  All a matter of what your budget is.  Don't expect Cadillac performance for Chevrolet prices, but it will get you from point A to point B.

Bruce


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## GunsOfNavarone

Smarter than a 4th grader is a stretch, but at least the $ is flexible (I have far more money than sense) My biggest concern is are two points, I like to hand sharpen my ridiculously over priced knives on stones. You MUST approach every stroke at the EXACT angle EVERY pass or it will be crap. Secondly, like everyone here, I hate dull drills. The unit from Amazon (it's available everywhere and interestingly, sold out everywhere) seems to sharpen very specific areas only and precisely. What angle that is as Bruce asked is valid. The drills the video showed looked to be a pretty standard 118* and I mainly am concerned about sharpening 135*...so I will research. Peoples experiences seems to really vary with the DD and I have always tuned in when people speak of them. I spend enough time in the shop making tooling and improving my machines, I really don't want to find something else to spend ample time on that takes me away from actually working on my greatest invention...a device that holds keys.


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## Buffalo21

I’ll post a detailed report of the new drill sharpener, when it arrives next week. It’s the one Guns of Navarone posted the link in his earlier post.







						BestEquip Drill Bits Sharpener Grinder MR-26A 13(8) mm-26(32) mm Drill Bits Sharpener and Grinder 6 Collects Drill Grinding Machine Portable Grinding Sharpening Machine CNC Router Bit Sharpener - - Amazon.com
					

BestEquip Drill Bits Sharpener Grinder MR-26A 13(8) mm-26(32) mm Drill Bits Sharpener and Grinder 6 Collects Drill Grinding Machine Portable Grinding Sharpening Machine CNC Router Bit Sharpener - - Amazon.com



					www.amazon.com


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## GunsOfNavarone

again...


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## GunsOfNavarone

No idea why it posted 4 times...Curious if it takes imperial er20 collets as well.


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## Buffalo21

GunsOfNavarone said:


> No idea why it posted 4 times...Curious if it takes imperial er20 collets as well.



the collets in the pictures are clearly labeled as ER 40, which makes it a lot easier


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## GunsOfNavarone

Sorry...I was actually considering the one that does 4 through 14mm, that one I believe uses ER20. I don't see why you couldn't use imperial collets, but that would cinch the deal for me. As I'm sure you saw, they have units for end mills as well. Anyway...make a thread on your experience and let us know. The one I want for smaller drills is sold out so it maybe a while for me.


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## Buffalo21

GunsOfNavarone said:


> Sorry...I was actually considering the one that does 4 through 14mm, that one I believe uses ER20. I don't see why you couldn't use imperial collets, but that would cinch the deal for me. As I'm sure you saw, they have units for end mills as well. Anyway...make a thread on your experience and let us know. The one I want for smaller drills is sold out so it maybe a while for me.



I’m wondering if smaller sized ER40 collets would allow smaller drills to be done on the same machine, we shall see


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## Weldingrod1

My DD splits points...

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Buffalo21

The wife called today, I’ve been out of town for the last 11 days, hopefully home tomorrow, out of town next week in Binghamton, NY, the the week of November 9th, I’m suppose to be in Hutchinson, KS, we shall see. She was whining about a big heavy box, apparently the drill sharpener has arrived, she said at 56#, I was lucky it made it indoors.


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## GunsOfNavarone

Sweet! I’m excited to hear as I have been practicing hand sharpening some old junk drill bits....I need this sharpener!


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## Buffalo21

DAMN!! This drill bit sharpener is the Cats’-A$$, the first drill bit took me about 30 secs, that includes unwrapping the collet. It’s is so simple, is quiet and works great. The only downfall is the weight, it weigh about 65#. Thats the whole machine along with the 13 collets and it came with a spare grinding wheel.


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## GunsOfNavarone

I dunno man, I learned from any decent piece of machinery that weight is a good thing! Not always convenient. I'm glad someone took the plunge before me. Sounds like thumbs up so I'm gonna order, however, I'm getting the 4-14mm version. On that note, I assume your ER collets worked fine?


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## GunsOfNavarone

Ah man! I guess posting the link burned me...NO MORE IN STOCK! Guess I'm waiting a while...


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## projectnut

Stonebriar said:


> Shars has an Ebay store.  Their holders are fine.  Just change out the screws.





GunsOfNavarone said:


> I dunno man, *I learned from any decent piece of machinery that weight is a good thing! *Not always convenient. I'm glad someone took the plunge before me. Sounds like thumbs up so I'm gonna order, however, I'm getting the 4-14mm version. On that note, I assume your ER collets worked fine?



Weight isn't always what you think it might be.  Back in the 1970's electronic calculators started replacing mechanical ones.  Until that time any "decent" desk calculator weighed a minimum of 5 lbs.  The new electronic ones generally weighed 1 lb. or less.  They weren't selling all that well so Texas Instruments did a survey of potential customers.  They found the main complaint was that customers thought since they weighed only a fraction of their predecessors they must be cheaply built and wouldn't last.

To resolve the weight problem Texas instruments started potting a piece of 16 ga. sheet metal to the bottom of the case.  Problem solved the calculators were now more than double their original weight and seen as more durable.  

I remember having an Olivetti desk calculator of that vintage.  When it finally died I disassembled it thinking there must be some useable parts inside.  It turned out to be a keyboard with a couple chips for brains, and a piece of sheet metal for weight.


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## Buffalo21

GunsOfNavarone said:


> I dunno man, I learned from any decent piece of machinery that weight is a good thing! Not always convenient. I'm glad someone took the plunge before me. Sounds like thumbs up so I'm gonna order, however, I'm getting the 4-14mm version. On that note, I assume your ER collets worked fine?



it came with the collets, they were part of the whole package.


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## hman

GunsOfNavarone said:


> Ah man! I guess posting the link burned me...NO MORE IN STOCK! Guess I'm waiting a while...


Try one of these:





						BestEquip End Mill Sharpener MR-26D Ф13(8)-Ф26(32) Drill Bits Sharpener and Grinder 14 Collects End Mill Re-Sharpener Portable Grinding Sharpening Machine CNC Router Bit Sharpener Adjustable - - Amazon.com
					

BestEquip End Mill Sharpener MR-26D Ф13(8)-Ф26(32) Drill Bits Sharpener and Grinder 14 Collects End Mill Re-Sharpener Portable Grinding Sharpening Machine CNC Router Bit Sharpener Adjustable - - Amazon.com



					www.amazon.com
				






			https://www.amazon.com/Huanyu-Instrument-High-precision-Sharpener-Re-sharpener/dp/B074BSZL8C/ref=pd_di_sccai_5/140-1917213-7099132?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B074BSZL8C&pd_rd_r=20fc1889-c664-434e-a9d9-662fb4eaa80c&pd_rd_w=5JEyt&pd_rd_wg=X7Dpu&pf_rd_p=5415687b-2c9d-46da-88a4-bbcfe8e07f3c&pf_rd_r=07KQFB9HG6G5DYM1XMY0&psc=1&refRID=07KQFB9HG6G5DYM1XMY0


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## GunsOfNavarone

Buffalo21 said:


> it came with the collets, they were part of the whole package.


Yeah, gotcha..but I guess I'm saying if you wanted to increase the sizes you wanted to do or if an imperial isn't close enough to a metric/similar size....can you use sizes that didn't come with the unit? I don't see why not, but I am curious.


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## GunsOfNavarone

projectnut said:


> Weight isn't always what you think it might be.  Back in the 1970's electronic calculators started replacing mechanical ones.  Until that time any "decent" desk calculator weighed a minimum of 5 lbs.  The new electronic ones generally weighed 1 lb. or less.  They weren't selling all that well so Texas Instruments did a survey of potential customers.  They found the main complaint was that customers thought since they weighed only a fraction of their predecessors they must be cheaply built and wouldn't last.
> 
> To resolve the weight problem Texas instruments started potting a piece of 16 ga. sheet metal to the bottom of the case.  Problem solved the calculators were now more than double their original weight and seen as more durable.
> 
> I remember having an Olivetti desk calculator of that vintage.  When it finally died I disassembled it thinking there must be some useable parts inside.  It turned out to be a keyboard with a couple chips for brains, and a piece of sheet metal for weight.


Well....sort of. I cant imagine a drill sharpener with a GOOD solid diamond wheel spinning at 4400 rpm in something that weighs under a pound. Kinda like a 8 pound rabid rat in one of those clear hamster balls! And I had a Casio calculator watch in the 70's..us kids though we were living in a magical Star Wars future.


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## pontiac428

Sounds like my Drill Doctor needs a steel plate added to give it enough heft to be respectable!


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## GunsOfNavarone

No, of course not.... but keep in mind, these sharpeners also do large, carbide end mills. I think they're in a different class. If it could save a a $45 end mill....Hell, it could look like my ex wife!


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## Joeman77

I've had a Drill Doctor for about 20 years and agree with the thought that they work well for light sharpening but can be fickle on a heavy grind. If the price was right I'd probably buy it again.


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## Buffalo21

GunsOfNavarone said:


> Yeah, gotcha..but I guess I'm saying if you wanted to increase the sizes you wanted to do or if an imperial isn't close enough to a metric/similar size....can you use sizes that didn't come with the unit? I don't see why not, but I am curious.


Any Er 40 collet will work


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## Buffalo21

Welp!! Welp!! I’m so enamored with this drill bit sharpener, that I broke down and bought the MR-13B, the 3 - 13 mm version (I bought myself an early birthday present).

I have sharpened about 50 drill bits today, ranging from 1/2” to 15/16”, it works flawlessly. When the MR-13A gets here, I giving the Drill Doctor(s) to my nephew.


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## GunsOfNavarone

Very good news! I'm sold. Just have to find the 2.5-3mm to 14-15 unit I'd prefer not to order from China directly.


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## rogerl

Below is a link to a different company selling a similar sharpener. More expensive but possibly local support.






						1/16" - 1/2" Drill Grinder DS-213 - Cuttermasters
					






					cuttermasters.com
				




Roger L


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## Buffalo21

Hopefully local support, the US office is a strip mall at the base of the bridge between Canada and the US, it’s about a block from one of the guys I use to work with.


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## rogerl

Buffalo21 said:


> Hopefully local support, the US office is a strip mall at the base of the bridge between Canada and the US, it’s about a block from one of the guys I use to work with.


Hopefully if you called you would get someone who spoke English or Canadian A  

Roger L


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## brino

rogerl said:


> Hopefully if you called you would get someone who spoke English or Canadian A



The preferred spelling is "Eh", see:
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/eh
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=eh

 

Good Day Eh!
-brino


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## johnbgood

bill stupak said:


> I had one and it worked okay, Getting the bit in the proper position in the holder was hit and miss for me. I did successfully sharpen a load of bits, but it was a touch too fiddley for me.


Ditto....exactly what he said!  Once in a while I'll do a "day" project just sharpening bits...some work, some don't.  Can't explaini  it..


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## Buffalo21

Welp!! After being told it would be delivered between 11/17 - 11/24, the smaller MR-13B arrived by DHL currier at 1:30 pm, today. I’m in the process of getting ready for the trip to Kansas in the morning, but I had to try it out before I left. It work jut like the bigger MR-26A unit, the results were spectacular. The unit is about 1/3 the size and weight of the bigger unit. So dull drill bits in the 5/64” to 1-1/16”  (2 mm - 26 mm) range, should no longer be an issue.


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## BGHansen

Buffalo21 said:


> Welp!! After being told it would be delivered between 11/17 - 11/24, the smaller MR-13B arrived by DHL currier at 1:30 pm, today. I’m in the process of getting ready for the trip to Kansas in the morning, but I had to try it out before I left. It work jut like the bigger MR-26A unit, the results were spectacular. The unit is about 1/3 the size and weight of the bigger unit. So dull drill bits in the 5/64” to 1-1/16”  (2 mm - 26 mm) range, should no longer be an issue.
> 
> 
> View attachment 343354
> View attachment 343355
> View attachment 343356
> View attachment 343357


Glad it worked out.  I've been happy with my DD but always good to have other options.  Yours is supposed to sharpen end mills too? Curious how that works. I'm pretty iffy doing the end only with one of those 5c tilting surface grinder fixtures. 

Bruce


----------



## arvidj

There appears to be a MR-13A, MR-13B and a MR-13D. Anyone happen to know what the differences might be and if the differences are relevant\significant\worthwhile?


----------



## Buffalo21

welp, after a days rest up from the trip to Kansas, i use the 2 new drill bit sharpeners, to sharpen about 75 drill bits from 1/4” to 3/4”, the results have been spectacular. This may be one of the best purchases, I’ve made in the last 4-5 yrs.


----------



## Manual Mac

I have the entry level Drill Doctor, the DD350x. 
$50 delivered to the house.
It leaves the drill tip pretty much like new, however it does not split the tip.
I already knew Darex makes a quality product, having used their large pedestal unit for about 20 yrs at my place of employment.
Has xlnt instructions, easy to use & I would purchase it again.


----------



## GunsOfNavarone

Man! I was a little hesitant to order, glad I put a link here...not only did someone jump in...they bought TWO. If that doesn't say good buy, I don't know what does. I'm waiting for the one I want at a affordable price (they vary A LOT!) to become available again. No doubt I'm jumping on it, but hoping it's will be one of the USA distributors but I'll take what I can get.


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## hman

Very interesting that this general style of tool is suddenly showing up in several variations from a bunch of suppliers.  Even Grizzly has jumped on the bandwagon  Here's a drill bit sharpener ($650):








						Professional Drill Bit Sharpening Machine at Grizzly.com
					

<h1>H8203 Professional Drill Bit Sharpening Machine</h1> <h2>Save money by resharpening your dull bits.</h2> <p>The precision-made H8203 Drill Bit Sharpening Machine is so simple to use, anyone can sharpen dull bits in three easy steps.</p> <p>Just set the drill bit in the collet, grind the...




					www.grizzly.com
				



and an end mill sharpener ($829):








						End Mill Sharpener at Grizzly.com
					

<h1>Grizzly G0921 End Mill Sharpener </h1> <h2>Keep money in your wallet by sharpening your own end mills! </h2> <p> This G0921 End Mill Sharpener won’t take up much room in your shop, but will deliver big results. This portable machine will grind 2-flute, 3-flute, 4-flute and 6-flute end mills...




					www.grizzly.com
				



Now I have to wonder who "pioneered" the design!


----------



## GunsOfNavarone

Well I found one for $324 for the small bits and end mills (3 through 15mm) Guess 'll need some ER20 collets for my imperial drills...what do you do for numbers and letters?? I guess use the next closest collet. I have very few over 1/2" or 12mm, but I am curious if I get, say an 18mm collet, will it work on this? Anyway I should have it in a week.


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## Buffalo21

GunsOfNavarone said:


> Well I found one for $324 for the small bits and end mills (3 through 15mm) Guess 'll need some ER20 collets for my imperial drills...what do you do for numbers and letters?? I guess use the next closest collet. I have very few over 1/2" or 12mm, but I am curious if I get, say an 18mm collet, will it work on this? Anyway I should have it in a week.




good for you, the closest collet is exactly how it works, no need for imperial collets


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## GunsOfNavarone

@Buffalo21  have you tried to sharpen any end mills? I assume you set to 0 degrees?


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## hman

Guns - The "ER" in the name of these collets stands for "Extended Range."  Each collet will collapse about 1mm.  So if the set is complete for metric drills/mills, it should also be complete for fractional inch, number sizes, and (smaller) letter sizes as well.  The overall range of ER-20 collets is up to 0.512" (13mm), so it surprises me that your end mill sharpener will go up to 15mm.  The next series of ER collets, ER-25, does go up to 16mm.  So be sure to verify the collet size before you but additional ones.  Here's a handy chart of ER sizes and grip ranges:








						ER Collet Sizes
					

This page shows the size and clamping range of the various size ER collets that we carry.




					littlemachineshop.com


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## arvidj

arvidj said:


> There appears to be a MR-13A, MR-13B and a MR-13D. Anyone happen to know what the differences might be and if the differences are relevant\significant\worthwhile?



Finally seem to have found the differences ...


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## GunsOfNavarone

hman said:


> Guns - The "ER" in the name of these collets stands for "Extended Range."  Each collet will collapse about 1mm.  So if the set is complete for metric drills/mills, it should also be complete for fractional inch, number sizes, and (smaller) letter sizes as well.  The overall range of ER-20 collets is up to 0.512" (13mm), so it surprises me that your end mill sharpener will go up to 15mm.  The next series of ER collets, ER-25, does go up to 16mm.  So be sure to verify the collet size before you but additional ones.  Here's a handy chart of ER sizes and grip ranges:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ER Collet Sizes
> 
> 
> This page shows the size and clamping range of the various size ER collets that we carry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> littlemachineshop.com


so the unit comes with collets to cover from 3 to 13 but states it will cover up to (15) does that require I purchased the 14 and 15 collets? Yes, but I already own those. BUUUUTTT.....and you can't make this shiz up...I received a FedEx tracking number but I also received an email that says my unit was damaged in shipping. IT HASENT EVEN MOVED YET! WHAT?? THEN....they say they will have more in on Nov 19th...that's today? They show they went from one left (the one I purchased) up to 2 quality today. I really hate dealing with these Chinese companies, but what's my option, pay 4 times the price for the American version.....that was made in China. It's not a big deal just a bit funny I guess. I'm gonna go beat a chunk of steel with a sledge hammer for a while.


----------



## hman

arvidj said:


> Finally seem to have found the differences ...


Now all you need is a Chinglish-to-English dictionary!  

I sometimes wonder if all those Chinese companies hire the same almost-English speaking translators.  Or maybe it's (poorly done) translation software, and absolutely NO proofreading/checking of what amounts to idiot-level transliteration.  Enquiring minds want to know!


----------



## pontiac428

hman said:


> Now all you need is a Chinglish-to-English dictionary!
> 
> I sometimes wonder if all those Chinese companies hire the same almost-English speaking translators.  Or maybe it's (poorly done) translation software, and absolutely NO proofreading/checking of what amounts to idiot-level transliteration. Enquiring minds want to know!



It's Google Translate.  小鸡很谦虚的房子, see?


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## GunsOfNavarone

Its funny, once saw a knife and on the box it said, "not for sticking in old women or children"!
I did end up ordering the"B" version off Flea-bay...other than vintage tools, I don't like to use that place to order anything.


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## hman

pontiac428 said:


> It's Google Translate.  小鸡很谦虚的房子, see?


Yup!  One of my favorite Chinese take-out dishes


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## arvidj

@Buffalo21,

Jack,

It looks like you have both a MR-13 and a MR-26. Can you tell me what collet fits each?

Does the MR-13 use an ER-20 or an ER-25? I'm guessing it is ER-20 based on the range but would like to confirm.

Same question for the MR-26. I'm guessing ER-40 but would like to confirm.

Thanks,
Arvid


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## Buffalo21

arvidj said:


> @Buffalo21,
> 
> Jack,
> 
> It looks like you have both a MR-13 and a MR-26. Can you tell me what collet fits each?
> 
> Does the MR-13 use an ER-20 or an ER-25? I'm guessing it is ER-20 based on the range but would like to confirm.
> 
> Same question for the MR-26. I'm guessing ER-40 but would like to confirm.
> 
> Thanks,
> Arvid



13B - ER 20
26A - ER 40


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## ACHiPo

This article on drill sharpening is worth a read (or three as I definitely didn't get everything the first couple times).  I have yet to go down the rabbit hole, but it looks like those fancy drill sharpeners can automatically and repeatedly grind optimized bevels.


			https://www.icscuttingtools.com/pdfs/Drill_Point_Geometry.pdf


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## Jericho

projectnut said:


> I have the older DD750, now referred to as a "Classic.  It worked fine for many years, but as you might guess being primarily made of plastic it eventually started to wear and would no longer sharpen bits properly.  In all fairness I probably over worked it.  At the time I was sharpening about 50 bits per month. At 50 bits per month for over 10 years it did in excess of 6,000 sharpening's before I gave up on it.  I put the DD on the shelf and started searching for a better machine.  The drills piled up for nearly a year as I was in no rush to shell out big bucks.
> 
> As luck would have it a shop in our area was moving to a new location.  They had purchased a Black Diamond drill grinder as part of an auction lot and never used it.  The thing sat in a corner for over 3 years before they decided it was time to go. They knew I was in the market for a grinder and gave me a call.  We agreed on a price, and my problem was solved.
> 
> I now have and use  Black Diamond model BW65 drill grinder.  It was originally built in 1974 for a local National Guard repair depot as part of a  military contract.  I have no idea why they purchased it in that the machine is 220 3phase, and there was no 3 phase power in their building.  It sat unused in the shop from 1974 to until around 2010 when it was sold at auction.  It sat unused another 3+ years in the new owners shop before he offered it to me.
> 
> When I acquired it about the only thing I had to do was clean off the dust, add a static phase converter, repair a damaged switch, and put it to use.  It's made sharpening drills a whole lot quicker and easier.  The first week I had it was the most boring week of my life.  I literally spent days at a time sharpening my backlog of drills.  In total I would guess there was between 300 and 500.  I still sharpen a fair amount of drills, but I'd guess todays volume is somewhere half of what I was doing.  If I do them on a more regular basis it takes less than an hour a month to keep up to speed.
> 
> I guess the whole point of this rambling is that depending on the volume of bits you need to sharpen there are options.  If you're in the 5-10 bits per month the DD will probably be all you'll ever need.  If the volume gets near the range I've experienced there are better, albeit more expensive, longer lasting alternatives.  In our area the Drill Doctor 750X with the accessories runs around $150.00.  I paid slightly over $300.00 for the Black Diamond with the roll around cabinet, all the collets, accessories, and a spare wheel.  I do see occasionally see machines similar to the one I purchased at similar prices.  I doubt you'll find the exact model in that it was a 3 phase machine built for a military contract.  All other Black Diamond machines I've seen are 220 single phase.
> 
> Here are a couple pictures of my Black Diamond machine.
> 
> View attachment 341312
> View attachment 341313


You are one blessed guy to get a Black Diamond unit for $300. They bring $500 + at auction and often with incomplete sets of collets. Well done. This is a commercial grade machine and puts a Drill Doctor to shame by comparison. Darex has made several commercial machines that use the same principle as the $150 version but also go for premium prices. The bit holders alone when you can find them are $200 on eBay and new  grinding wheels are $300 each.


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## projectnut

Jericho said:


> You are one blessed guy to get a Black Diamond unit for $300. They bring $500 + at auction and often with incomplete sets of collets. Well done. This is a commercial grade machine and puts a Drill Doctor to shame by comparison. Darex has made several commercial machines that use the same principle as the $150 version but also go for premium prices. The bit holders alone when you can find them are $200 on eBay and new  grinding wheels are $300 each.



The first drill sharpener I attempted to buy was a Darex M3.  It came up for sale when the company I worked for was closing a shop.  I had actually paid for the unit, but had to wait until the day the shop closed to take possession.  3 months later when the day came I went over to the shop only to find it had been stolen.  It took a few weeks to get all the documentation and get my money returned.

By now I had nearly a 5 month backlog on drills that needed to be sharpened.  I was in a hurry for a machine and had read about the DD750.  It was relatively inexpensive so I thought I'd take a chance.  The machine did work well for about 10 years before I decided it was time to replace it.  I literally looked at dozens of different machines.  They all seemed either way over priced, or worn to the point that they wouldn't be any better than the one I was trying to replace.  

Apparently all the stars aligned when I got the call that the Black Diamond was available.  The price was right, the quality was excellent, and the timing was perfect.  I roll it out about once a month, dust it off, sharpen a pile of drills, and roll it back to its corner.  It makes a once tedious and time consuming job almost a pleasure to complete.  I love the results and smile each time one of the newly sharpened drills cuts through the toughest material like it was butter.


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## GunsOfNavarone

I went from waiting forever for the 13b to become available again to now having 2 of them...yes the same model. Long story..... I'd sell one here but shipping would be too expensive.


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## rogerl

GunsOfNavaron:
Any progress with your new drill sharpener. I am curious if you had the same results as Buffalo21.

Roger L


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## GunsOfNavarone

Yup...got 2 but was able to return one. There was a 5/16" bit that I loved (black oxide from Dewalt of all things!) It was so dull, I was using it as a test piece to experiment sharpening by hand....yeah, really screwed up... Took me a couple minutes to figure how how to set up and adjust, but once I got it set, it took seconds and this things cuts like new! No more tossing bits when there dull! I do need to see how small of ER20's I can get for this thing as MOST bits I use are sub 1/2" or 13mm. Now I understand we can sharpen carbide end mills but it requires a different compound wheel. I was skeptical but now I am going to get that wheel and sharpen end mills as well. For the price you could buy a nice 115 piece drill bit set or just buy new bits as they dull, but I feel pretty good about this route.


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## Pops

I’ve been looking at a Tormek DBS-22 sharpener. Looks like a good machine. Didn’t really want to spend the $400 for one so decided to build one like it. Making a few changes but I think it will work well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rogerl

GunsOfNavaron:
Thanks for the quick reply. Yes, the cost is high for something that you might use a few times per year to sharpen your drills. BUT the time when you are drilling a bunch of holes and the drill gets dull or you hit something with the drill and knock the edge off it now you can sharpen the drill and keep going instead of waiting for a new drill to arrive or having to go out to get a new drill. That is the time you will be glad you have the drill sharpener.

Roger L


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## GunsOfNavarone

It's odd they supply 2 sharpening wheels and they are both the same...if they gave one of each? This would even be a much bigger value.
As I said, I hate ebay, but this seller shipped quickly and the box it was it could have taken a direct hit from a BMG 50 cal.
FWIW... I can say this seller is on the up and up.
Seller


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## John_Dennis

I read somewhere that Drill Doctor is a division of Darex.  I have one and sometimes it works great and sometimes the grind angle is backwards and the cutting edge is high and heel low.  I have no idea what I am doing wrong.


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## ACHiPo

John_Dennis said:


> I read somewhere that Drill Doctor is a division of Darex.  I have one and sometimes it works great and sometimes the grind angle is backwards and the cutting edge is high and heel low.  I have no idea what I am doing wrong.


I have similar issues.  I think it has to do with the flutes which are used to register the drill, I.e. if the flutes are not “standard” the grinding angles are wrong.  After reading Hall I’m going to try to figure out what causes it.


----------



## Dinwoodie Cutlery Concepts

Pcmaker said:


> I'm tempted to buy a Drill Doctor 750X after I've seen reviews of it on Yotube. Seems to be the consensus best/easiest way to re-sharpen dull drills.
> 
> I haven't seen any opinions stated yet by machinists. I was wondering if this tool is often used in the machining community.


I’ve been looking at one too. I don’t have problem hand sharpening the bigger drills by hand but I mostly use Small bits #48 #53 etc and I can barely see the thing if trying to sharpen by hand!


----------



## Buffalo21

Drill doctors are limited to about 3/32” for the smallest bits, the collet assembly will hold


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## GunsOfNavarone

Ok, I thought the 2nd wheel supplied with my pacific rim special drill sharpener was another same CBN wheel (grit really APPEARS the same) but it’s an SDC so I can do HSS and Carbide. Nice!


----------



## GunsOfNavarone

@Buffalo21  Perhaps I found a limitation of the grinder and I believe you bought the small until (for smaller bits) as well as the larger one. I was sharpening a small bit (sub 1/8") and soon as that sombitch touched the grinder, it snapped. Grabbed another small bit and was SUPER cautious this time, same deal. Have you had similar? I'm thinking of maybe trying the lightest layer of oil on the bit or maybe it's something in the 1st step of aligning the web....that 1st step with the dial is a bit sketchy.


----------



## Buffalo21

GunsOfNavarone said:


> @Buffalo21  Perhaps I found a limitation of the grinder and I believe you bought the small until (for smaller bits) as well as the larger one. I was sharpening a small bit (sub 1/8") and soon as that sombitch touched the grinder, it snapped. Grabbed another small bit and was SUPER cautious this time, same deal. Have you had similar? I'm thinking of maybe trying the lightest layer of oil on the bit or maybe it's something in the 1st step of aligning the web....that 1st step with the dial is a bit sketchy.



probably why the smaller collets are made almost opposite of normal ER 20, with the precision holding area is at the back of the collet (compared to regular collets). The drill bit can not be allowed to flexed


----------



## GunsOfNavarone

Makes sense... Not extremely effective however. Might have to buy a lot cheap/small bits to practice on, see if I can figure out the issue. It really comes from when you put the bit holder into the grinding chamber, that initial "hit" just immediately shocks it enough to snap. Not really a way to slowly bring in in as the two mating surfaces have zero tolerance.


----------



## Buffalo21

I basically throw bits below 3/32” away, they are dirt cheap


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## Buffalo21

when I bought the MR-13B drill sharpener, I had ordered a spare grinding wheel. The paperwork I got back, thanked me for the purchase and said shipment arrival dates, were more fluid due to the COVID pandemic, expect delivery between January 27 to February 16, it arrived today.


----------



## GunsOfNavarone

Buffalo21 said:


> I basically throw bits below 3/32” away, they are dirt cheap


I get that, but when you spend $400 or more on a sharpener, the logic could apply to just buying a very nice set of bits or as many replacement as you like. If it's possible to sharpen end mills and small bits....count me in.


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## Buffalo21

I used the MR-13b for about an hour this morning, did a number of drill bits, it worked flawlessly


----------



## jimbo fury

Pcmaker said:


> I'm tempted to buy a Drill Doctor 750X after I've seen reviews of it on Yotube. Seems to be the consensus best/easiest way to re-sharpen dull drills.
> 
> I haven't seen any opinions stated yet by machinists. I was wondering if this tool is often used in the machining community.


It has some range of adjustment for the cutting angle of the drill. That's kind of nice. I guess for a hobbyist it would work great. Tooling geometry is very complex. My only complaint about a DD would be that it can't add any additional geometry, such as, a tiny and precise radius on the cutting edge to drastically increase tool life and giving you the ability for much faster feeds and speeds.


----------



## GunsOfNavarone

@Buffalo21 how small if bits have you done? I found if it's not setup correctly (I mean dead on with the web alignment) or it will snap that somb1tch as soon as it touches the wheel!


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## projectnut

About the smallest I've sharpened with either the Drill Doctor (750 Classis) or the Black Diamond drill grinder is 1/8".  The Black Diamond will sharpen down to #33 or in fractional sizes 1/16".  In my case both of those sizes need a magnifying glass to be sure the angles are correct.  For the smaller sizes it's generally more cost effective to just replace them.

There are currently several listings for 1/16" drills on eBay.  Names like Chicago Latrobe and Union Butterfield are selling for between $1.00 and $1.25 ea.  Hardly worth straining the old eyes for that price.


----------



## GunsOfNavarone

Yeah, I whole heartedly agree. There's just that challenge factor. I _should_ be able to do it....technically. Not so much however. I spent a chunk of change on a full set of Norseman twist drills, I spent a chunk of change on a sharpener. I wrote the 2 off by telling myself that one purchase would support the other. That's partially true. The MR13b does very good on MOST. I thought I could do endmills as well, but the sharpener doesn't do flat ends (180*?)


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## Buffalo21

GunsOfNavarone said:


> @Buffalo21 how small if bits have you done? I found if it's not setup correctly (I mean dead on with the web alignment) or it will snap that somb1tch as soon as it touches the wheel!


1/8”, smaller than that, I just throw away the dull ones and get a new one. I have them in bulk, usually between 50-100 of each size


----------



## rogerl

I am looking to buy a drill sharpener. The company I work for has a Black Diamond 2B drill sharpener. I use it to sharpen my drills. It works great down to 1/16. It does not split the point. I have been looking for a used Black Diamond sharpener and they ether do not have any collets or they are way out of my price range. 
I know someone who is selling a Darex M4 sharpener but it does not have the 1/16" to 1/2" collet. The 1/16-1/2" collets show up on E-Bay but you do not know it they are worn out. Darex does not support the product any more.  
The MR-13 sharpener looks good but I am a bit concerned about the quality of the Chinese tool. 
Fore the people who have the MR-13 sharpeners knowing what you know now would you buy one again? Would you recommend it to a friend? I would really like to sharpen drills down to almost 1/16". 
Any information would be great.  

Roger L


----------



## hman

Here's a DIY setup for smaller size drills.  NOT a name brand by any means, but it looks like it will work:





						Sharpening tiny drills - HomemadeTools.net
					

The best way to sharpen small drills is to buy them by the dozen and discard the dull and broken ones. Nevertheless, there's always the inevitable



					www.homemadetools.net
				




Full disclosure: I don't recall where I got this link.  For all I know, it might have been in one of the previous 10 pages of this very thread.  If so, my apologies to the original poster for not giving credit.


----------



## projectnut

rogerl said:


> *I am looking to buy a drill sharpener. The company I work for has a Black Diamond 2B drill sharpener.* I use it to sharpen my drills. It works great down to 1/16. It does not split the point. I have been looking for a used Black Diamond sharpener and they ether do not have any collets or they are way out of my price range.
> I know someone who is selling a Darex M4 sharpener but it does not have the 1/16" to 1/2" collet. The 1/16-1/2" collets show up on E-Bay but you do not know it they are worn out. Darex does not support the product any more.
> The MR-13 sharpener looks good but I am a bit concerned about the quality of the Chinese tool.
> Fore the people who have the MR-13 sharpeners knowing what you know now would you buy one again? Would you recommend it to a friend? I would really like to sharpen drills down to almost 1/16".
> Any information would be great.
> 
> Roger L


Here's a Black Diamond BW-70 that is currently listed on eBay.









						Black Diamond Precision Drill Grinder with cabinet ,RPM 3400,,model BW-70,   | eBay
					

<p dir="ltr">Black Diamond Precision Drill Grinder. Condition used </p> <p dir="ltr">Working good </p> <p dir="ltr">Sell As is </p> <p dir="ltr">Pictures as part of description </p>



					www.ebay.com
				




  It looks to be in good shape, and has quite a number of collets.  Note the asking price is $450.00  Or Best Offer.  If the thing is in decent shape it's an excellent price.  They go for around $8,000.00 new depending on the accessories you order.  Here's a link to the products they offer



			Black Diamond Drill Grinders | Products
		


As for the missing collets you can either buy them from the company for about $42.00 each, or make some.  I made 7 for my model 65 drill grinder.  Here's a picture of the collets for my machine.  The bright ones are the ones I made.  Note there are a few extra blanks for additional collets should I need to make more in the future.


----------



## Harley80

I have an older one. I forget the model number but I still use it. I do wait until I have bunch of dull bits because it is a little time consuming. I works great though!


----------



## rogerl

Projectnut:
Thanks for the information. I looked at the E-Bay link and that grinder only goes up to 11/32". I would like to find something that goes to at least 1/2". There was a guy in my area selling a model 2 with no collets. I was tempted but when I contacted Black Diamond and found out how expensive the collets were I decided no. A few weeks ago I poked on E-Bay and found a guy selling almost a complete set of collets for $250. I am not in a hurry to buy. I can still use the Black Diamond grinder at work.
I like the idea of the individual collets for each drill size. The Darex grinder uses one set of fingers to go from 1/16" to 1/2". That is a very wide range and try to keep the drill on center.

Roger L


----------



## rogerl

Harley80:
When you say you have an older model sharpener. Is it a MR-13 style grinder? How long does the wheel last?

Thanks
Roger L


----------

