# So How Did I Do & What Do I Need ??...



## 56type (Aug 18, 2016)

Just picked this Atlas 10100 6" x 18" today and know it's missing a few things like the tool post, chuck key, wrench for tailstock and the gear pack for threading. Basically all I got was the lathe and motor but thought that with the parts availabilty I could build from here. It looks like it's hardly been used and seems just a bit dirty but a cursory inspection doesn't reveal a lot of wear and the paint is in good shape. Serial #002866 if that helps.

What do I need to get to get things up and running, or get it to "out of the box"condition as far as accessories/tooling ?? Thanks.


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## pollardd (Aug 18, 2016)

It looks like a nice little lathe.  I guess what you get for it depends on if you want to restore it back to how it was when it was new or make it as usable as possible.
The first thing your are going to need is a tool post.  I'd go for a "Quick Change" tool post.  You can find heaps of them online.  Just make sure the measurements match your Center Height and suit your compound slide and T slot.  When I fitted mine I had to file down the T nut so it fitted in the slot.  It was deliberately made oversize so it would suite different models.  A chuck key should be easy to find.  You could make one fairly easily if you have a drill press are are handy with a file.  (and a better one once you have a chuck key).
Finding a full set of change gears could be a little harder.  You could buy them individually but I'll bet they aren't cheap.  Not only will you use them for screw cutting but also for power feed on the carriage.  

Another thing you will need is a revolving center for the tail stock if you want to have anything sticking out of the chuck more than an inch or two.
The list goes on from there depending on what you want to make.  Three Jaw Chuck.  Fixed / Traveling Steady etc.

Part of the fun is in the locating the bits you want but don't forget to make some stuff along the way.
Good Luck
David


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## 56type (Aug 18, 2016)

Thanks, I'll keep a lookout for the change gears. Just printed the manual for it from the Downloads section of the site and am going thru the "getting to know you" phase of learning the controls on the machine (yeah, I'm that new). So far the only thing throwing me is the engagement of the back gear...The manual says to move the collar, but it would seem the only thing that moves is the v-belt pulley on the shaft. I can get the v-belt pulley to move left and engage the keyway (I guess that's what it's called ??) to turn the shaft but I can still slide it to the right to where it just freewheels ???


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## pollardd (Aug 19, 2016)

My Atlas lathe has a back gear but it is a larger model than yours with a 10" swing.  It is a a different design to yours in the pulleys.
I pull out a pin (actually two pins but I think it has been modified) this disconnects the the shaft from the first pulley closest to the chuck.
Then I flip a leaver that engages two gears on a second shaft at the back.  Hence the term back gear.
If I engage the back gear without removing the pins the drive is locked solid which is handy for removing the chuck.
Can you post a link to the manual you are reading so we can take a look?
You only need the back gear when you wan't to turn very slowly for large diameters.
What speed to use is something you will get the feel of as you get used to it.

BTW I wouldn't worry too much about finding the special wrench for the tail stock.  You should be able to find a ring or open ended spanner to fit. 
The same spanner will probably fit quite a few things on the lathe, like the change gears and the saddle lock.

David


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## pollardd (Aug 19, 2016)

I found a bit of a description of the back gears here.  I don't really understand it not having the lathe in front of me but you might.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas6inch/page2.html


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## 56type (Aug 19, 2016)

Thanks for the link, I think I *may* have it figured out. Took a bit wrestling with it but I finally got the collar off the shaft after I removed the snap ring. Seems there is a missing detent ball and spring so the collar was staying where it should once I got it to move. Machine had apparently been sitting awhile and the lube turned to cosmoline sticking things up. Found a post on another board that explains it far better than I (and probably with the correct terminology)...it's post# 17 toward the bottom of the page.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/22269-Puzzled-by-Atlas-Mk-2-back-gear-engagement/page2

Even though I was looking for the detent ball to launch itself into low earth orbit, nothing came out and after inspecting the collar I could find no evidence of either the detent ball or spring so I'm heading to the hardware store to source those pieces and see what to make of it after everything is back together correctly with the right parts. I did give it a thorough scrubbing with an old toothbrush and some WD-40 and so far it's cleaning up nicely.


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## David S (Aug 20, 2016)

Welcome to the forum.
I have an old circ 1949 Atlas 6".  For about 35 years I used the latern type tool post holder.  What a pain.  I finally got the QCTP from Little Machine Shop.  They have a set for the Atlas 6".  If you go that route I would suggest order at least 4 more plain tool bit holders.  In my opinion you can never have too many.  If you have to keep changing tools with the set screws then it is no longer quick change.

As for what else you need?  It really depends on what you want to do with it.  I.E larger stuff or smaller.  I work mainly in aluminum and brass making parts for old clocks so I found the screw on Jacobs 3 jaw chuck was good for stuff up to 13 mm diameter.  I also got a set of ER collets for more accurate small stuff.

For anything larger than 13 mm my go to chuck is a 4 jaw independent.  I use two horizontally opposed keys for centering and I can get things pretty close by eye and then indicate to get to zero.

Without knowing what other tools you have like drill press or bench grinder it is hard to suggest cutting tools.  If you go HSS you will need to forum and sharpen them with a bench grinder.

As mentioned some sort of dead or live center will be useful.  Also a couple of center drills perhaps #1 and #2.

You will also need capability to accurately measure.  For starters an inexpensive digital caliper with metric / imperial selection would be the most versatile allowing 4 different types of measurements.

For some reason the tail stock chuck seems to have way too much overhang for my liking.  I would prefer it to be as close to the quill as possible for rigidity and maximum work envelope.

Keep us posted on your progress.

David


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## talvare (Aug 20, 2016)

David S said:


> For some reason the tail stock chuck seems to have way too much overhang for my liking.  I would prefer it to be as close to the quill as possible for rigidity and maximum work envelope.David



That was the first thing I noticed as well. That set-up really decreases the rigidity of the tail stock and won't help with machining accuracy. I don't know much about Atlas lathes, but that drill chuck also looks a little large for that size lathe. Anyway, it looks like you picked up a pretty nice machine and you've gotten some good advice.

Ted


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## 56type (Aug 20, 2016)

Thanks for all the advice, I really appreciate it as all this is brand new to me. I do have a bit of trouble I found after getting the release collar back together with the correct 1/8" ball and using a cut down safety detent spring from an AR-15. I hook up the motor and go to give it a trial run and engage the back gear ....The back gear worked for a few seconds and then disengaged itself !! Not sure what's going on there except that it won't stay engaged under power and simply flips itself back to the down position. It also has about 3/8" of play in backgear lever where it slides into the headstock casting, as in the entire backgear assembly slides left 3/8"and then can be pulled back to the right the same distance. Is this normal ??


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## 56type (Aug 20, 2016)

talvare said:


> That was the first thing I noticed as well. That set-up really decreases the rigidity of the tail stock and won't help with machining accuracy. I don't know much about Atlas lathes, but that drill chuck also looks a little large for that size lathe. Anyway, it looks like you picked up a pretty nice machine and you've gotten some good advice.
> 
> Ted



The drill chuck was on the lathe when I picked it up. I wasn't sure about it's size or what seemed to be a bit too much of an extension on it (??). Still trying to go thru the machine and see what seems to be working correctly and what needs repair/servicing. So far I have replace the spring & 1/8" ball on the direct drive coupling (according to the parts diagram, numbers 10,11,12). Only to find out the backgear won't stay engaged under power...


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## 56type (Aug 22, 2016)

OK, Got the back gear adjusted to where it stays engaged while running. Turns out it was just the set screw that adjusts the back gear was a bit too loose. Tightened  it down just a bit and it works fine now. Today I took some of the lead screw gearing apart to give it a good scrubbing and I have a few questions before I try to take the gearing any further apart...

 Should the large gear that attaches directly to the lead screw come off the shaft freely so that the entire gearing bracket can be removed ?? It seemed to be stuck so I didn't want to try to force it. Also I noticed the threading dial wasn't working correctly when engaged to the lead screw. It's very strange since it seems to work correctly when moving the carriage assembly manually ??? I can turn the handle and the threading dial turns with the carriage movement but when I engage the half-nut lever the carriage begins to move but the threading dial does not .....??????? I'm kinda stumped on that one and the manual doesn't offer any suggestions.


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## wa5cab (Aug 23, 2016)

56type,

Short answer is "yes", the large gear on the lead screw should come off freely.  It is commonly called the "screw gear".  If you look at the threading chart, you will see that various threads require various screw gears.  And although all of the listed feeds use the same 64T gear, two are with it mounted after the spacer (F) and two before the spacer (B).

Your threading dial is behaving normally.  Read the sticky message on this subject located in the little area at the top of the first page of this Forum.


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## Round in circles (Aug 23, 2016)

To save yourself some money  learn how to use that four jaw chuck properly means you don't really need a three jaw chuck .
A very useful home made tool for  ensuring you get the work piece centered as accurately as possible is to have a round bar that you have fitted a decent quality small sealed bearing on the end .
You put the bar in the tool post and advance the bearing till it touches the work piece , turn it 180 degrees by hand and see if it touches the other side .. adjust a couple of times till it does . now at 90 degrees to the first face you used & repeat the operations again.

The idea is to get it so that the bearing just drags on the work piece surface at every 90 degrees , this centre will be amazingly accurate.

Which brings me to centre point drills  . Buy a new set of three different sizes , as you'll rarely ever find a second hand set is any good . Whenever you can , only center point drill  the true centre from a rechecked & confirmed lightly dot punched mark you make in a turned face .

Getting  a set of a tapered centers  , A dead one that fits the head stock and a live centre that fits the tail stock .
Then make yourself a set of driving dogs and a face plate the face plater being as big as you can get to run on your lathe . My first dogs were my own home made ones made turned up ones  from  1" thick engineering plastic like big flat washers . in 1,  2 & 3 & 4 inch dia  capacities .

Once all done ( good turning practice and leaning how to cut a thread ,  turn the face plate true when it's mounted in the headstock .
You will now be able to turn bars very very accurately and also put a part turned item back in between the centers with  maximum accuracy every time .  You'll also find that if you make a set of clamps with coach bolts to fit them in the face plate from  square bar or flat plates you can mount things larger than your chuck  well off centre and turn them up so long as the article can rotate 360 degrees without fouling the bed of the lathe.


Another cheap tool I've found invaluable both on lathe & general metal work is a set of internal & external hand calipers with a simple resistant plastic washer in the pivot joint  .  I made my first set out of aluminium sheet scrap as that's all the metal I had , then replaced them four years later with purchased second hand garage sale carbon steel ones .
With these calipers you can accurately repeat a diameter you have measured/ checked  to within two thousand of an inch or less once you learn how to " Get the feel " of them  .
You can also set them accurately to about 1/100 of an inch , adjusting them by directly reading the scale off a quality engineers steel scale / steel ruler .


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## 56type (Aug 24, 2016)

wa5cab said:


> 56type,
> 
> Short answer is "yes", the large gear on the lead screw should come off freely.  It is commonly called the "screw gear".  If you look at the threading chart, you will see that various threads require various screw gears.  And although all of the listed feeds use the same 64T gear, two are with it mounted after the spacer (F) and two before the spacer (B).
> 
> Your threading dial is behaving normally.  Read the sticky message on this subject located in the little area at the top of the first page of this Forum.



Thanks for the help. The compound gear bushings (M6-70) and change gear sleeves (M6-73) were stuck to the carriage bolts as well as the 64-T gear & spacer (M6-165) being stuck to the lead screw shaft. After some cleaning and persuasion with a plastic faced jeweler's hammer I got them to release and after a thorough scrubbing in some denatured alcohol everything went back together smoothly. Appreciate clearing up the mystery of the threading dial, I now understand that it is to be used to indicate where/when to engage the half-nut to get repeatable threading for each pass.


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## 56type (Aug 24, 2016)

Round in circles said:


> To save yourself some money  learn how to use that four jaw chuck properly means you don't really need a three jaw chuck .
> A very useful home made tool for  ensuring you get the work piece centered as accurately as possible is to have a round bar that you have fitted a decent quality small sealed bearing on the end .
> You put the bar in the tool post and advance the bearing till it touches the work piece , turn it 180 degrees by hand and see if it touches the other side .. adjust a couple of times till it does . now at 90 degrees to the first face you used & repeat the operations again.
> 
> The idea is to get it so that the bearing just drags on the work piece surface at every 90 degrees , this centre will be amazingly accurate .



Thanks. Would you happen to have a pic of the above mentioned centering tool, or post a link to it so I can get a better idea of it's construction and see the procedure in action ?? Trying to picture how this works.....

Currently looking at this tooling package from Littlemachineshop.com ....since my machine was missing the tool post when I bought it.

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3593&category=


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## wa5cab (Aug 25, 2016)

That looks like a pretty good tooling package for the 6" MK2.  You should also buy 2 or 3 extra #001 and/or #002 cutter holders (the more the better).  Else, with only one holder of each type, if you need to change cutters or boring bars during the course of a job you will have to spend several minutes with an Allen wrench changing the cutter.  And then a few more minutes getting the different type cutter on center.  Which is no better than the lantern type tool post.  With several quick-change holder with cutters already mounted in them, it only takes a few seconds to change tooling.  At last count I had 11 of them, with all but two with cutters or bars mounted and centered.

Also, where the Little Machine Shop ad talk about cutting of a "tank", he means a "tang".  The tang sticks out of the small end of the 1MT arbor and is used in drill presses with a tapered bar and slot cut through the DP quill to remove the (probably) drill chuck from the spindle.  In your tailstock, you remove an arbor from the tailstock ram by retracting the ram until the end of the feed screw contacts the small end of the arbor, pushing it out of the taper.  The tang adds additional length to the arbor and will cause the chuck to eject with an appreciable amount of the ram still exposed.  It reduces the depth of hole that you can drill without repositioning  the tailstock.  After you cut the tang off, close the chuck jaws and mount the chuck in the spindle chuck with arbor sticking out toward tailstock.  Face the cut off end smooth.   Else you could bend your tailstock feed screw.


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## David S (Aug 25, 2016)

I very much agree with Robert, while you are paying shipping order more tool holders.  If you look at the package of insert lathe tools and want to use them all, you will need holders or else be fooling with set screws.  I also have about a dozen for my Atlas 6".  I have one dedicated to a tool post grinder as well as a dial indicator for adjusting the 4 jaw.  Saves setting up the magnetic base indicator holder.

David


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## 56type (Aug 25, 2016)

Thanks for the tooling suggestions. I'm making a list as they come up so I can make "one haul do it all" when it comes to the shipping costs. Does anyone have a source for the nut that secures the compound slide handle ?? Just noticed mine is missing and would like to replace it without having to buy the complete screw assembly off ebay. Thanks.


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## wa5cab (Aug 25, 2016)

56,

I don't know of a ready source except probably Clausing.  And although they probably aren't expensive, the shipping would be.  You can make one fairly easily.  All that you need is a short length of all-thread and three hex nuts of the proper thread.  Run the three nuts onto the all-thread until the outer one lacks about one thread of being flush with the end.  With two  open end wrenches, tighten the three nuts together.  Turn the outside of the nut on the end down to the proper diameter.  Do NOT try to make two at the same time as you will have no way to loosen them for removal.  You may need to face off the outer end - I don't know how tall the original nut is.  Bevel or radius the outer corner slightly and put a slight bevel on the inner corner with a 60 degree cutter held perpendicular to the spindle axis right at the line where the two nuts touch.  Then cut a screwdriver slot across the end.  You may need to load two blades onto your hacksaw frame to make the slot wide enough.  Use a board or stack of boards attached to the flat top of your compound to lay the hacksaw on to hold it steady and horizontal at the correct height.


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## Round in circles (Aug 28, 2016)

The quick centering tool that fits in the tool post hole borer  I've currentlyonly got one roller on it as the one at 90 degrees to the axis can be unscrewed . 





In use


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## 56type (Aug 28, 2016)

Round in Circles,
Thanks for the pics !! that clears up the question regarding the mounting orientation of the bearing, I wasn't sure if it was mounted as shown in the pics or if it was mount in the same way the rollers are on a steady rest. The pics clear it up quite nicely. So in operation it just touches the workpiece on one side and then is swung in a 180 degree arc to the same spot on the opposite side of the workpiece, then adjustments are made to the workpiece so that the outer portion of the bearing on the tool contacts the long axis of the workpiece fully each time on opposite sides when the procedure is repeated....correct ??

 From the pics the bearing is just a press fit to the shaft ???


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## Round in circles (Aug 29, 2016)

No not quite .
In the four jaw chuck roughly *lightly* tightening the jaws , set the work piece without switching  the lathe on  advance the bearing on the long shaft ( it is held in the boring bar's tool holder ) towards the work piece . gently rotate th chuck till you find a point that is the closest to the bearing , advance th bearing a tad further till it just touches this high point ., mark the chuck with a sharpie at a repeatable place.
Now rotate the chuck 180 degrees and roughly set the gap to the work place to about half way . gently rotate the chuck and advance the jaw till it pushes the work piece to the opposite jaw .
Now repeat this exercise after moving  the chuck 90 degrees ,  always turn in the same direction
When it is well centered the bearing should just be able to be rotated as it touches the work piece  I seen to remember I had it down to 1.5 thou when I last bothered to check the accuracy  using my turned up test bar piece.

You'll soon be able to do this setting up in four or five adjustments .

That short stubby arm with a bearing on it . I though it might be useful in checking the trueness of the face plate , chuck front face or to be used when putting an already turned end  faced bar back in the chuck . After using it a couple of time I found it got in the way so I unscrewed it and put it to one side just in case I ever do find a real need for it .

There are numerous You tube videos with people showing how they true up the work piece with a bearing on a shaft , one guy's video  in particular " Doubleboost  of Twastard Engineering "  is rather  good , but you might find his Northern English accent a bit heavy .

I'll see if I can locate th clip and post the details  on the thread .

Se what you make of this ...   





This one shows both axis being trued up .






  Double boost has made so many clips for e tube it might take a long time to find the one I want . Finally found a slightly better one but it's not by double boost .

  A  bar / rod in four jaw chuck along the axis , you use the opposite end to that shown in this clip but I'm sure you'll get the idea

If you want to learn doing what some ne who earns their living doing it these " Double boost " clips are very useful.







Finally a different way but still very good for centering a plate or square profile .


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## 56type (Aug 31, 2016)

Round in circles,
Thanks for all the info. !!! I'm a "monkey see,monkey do" type that picks up things alot faster if I can actually see them being done. The links pointed out exactly how to use the tool for centering the workpiece.


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## 56type (Sep 9, 2016)

OK, small update...After reading a few threads by some other members...http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/contouring-with-manual-machine-tools.34305/#post-289958 and http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...-holding-cutting-tools-on-small-lathes.32266/. I picked up a latern style toolpost off ebay for $35. Since I had no toolpost at all I thought this could get me started.

I used the search function but couldn't seem to find out which tool holders should be used ?? Seems as if there are quite a few using different size tool bits bits as well so I thought I'd check with the  folks here before buying something I couldn't use. Was thinking some of the smaller bit holding ones would be suitable to the Atlas 6", maybe in the 3/16 & 1/4" bit size range?? Looks like I'll also need to learn to grind HSS tooling correctly since from what I'm seeing the Atlas 6" lathes don't seem to care much for carbide tooling.

I did pick up a cheap harbor freight dial indicator and magnetic base till I could fund a better one. Also picked up a piece of 1" round stock and have it set up in the 4-jaw chuck on center to within .001 to make a muzzle nut (soon as I get some tooling to actually cut with). Thanks.


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## wa5cab (Sep 10, 2016)

Looking back at various Atlas catalogs over the past 3/4 century, it appears that the most common square or round tool or tool holder that Atlas sold for the 618 was 3/16" square or diameter.

Mind you, 1/2" square cutters would work fine on a 618 but any 0XA tool holder (looking down the road) that could hold 1/2" cutters is going to be pretty thin at the bottom.  Which I would avoid buying.  1/4" would probably be a safe maximum.

What I mean about thin at the bottom is that first, the top of the cutter has to be held on center (of the lathes longitudinal spindle axis).  And you don't want the cutter holder have to be so long (tall) that with the top of the cutter on center, the bottom of the holder will hit the top of the compound regardless of the angle you want to set the compound at.  Meaning that you should be able to set the compound at any angle and then set the tool post at any angle without having any interference between the compound slide and the tool holder.


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## francist (Sep 10, 2016)

That's a great start, you'll learn lots by starting with the basics. Same with the indicator, nothing wrong with some inexpensive stuff to learn the ropes with.

I have a 6" Atlas myself, and yes there's a bit of a learning curve when you're a beginner trying to figure out just what is what and how to make sense of all the different sizes of tools out there. Your machine is sized well for 3/16" square tool bits. These fit the "Armstrong style" of holder in a #00 size. The older designation for this size holder was #1010. 

1/4" square tool bits will need to have a larger tool holder -- in this case a #o or #2010 using the old designation. I myself do not use this larger holder on my Atlas although I do have a set of them for another machine. There might be challenges with the short centre height of the 6" lathe, I'm not sure. You also need to be aware that larger holders may need a larger lantern tool post, so exercise caution when buying. 

Also, not all angles on tool holders are created equal! Most times the standard Armstrong style will present the tool bit at about 15 degree positive rake (the bit angles slightly upward as it exits the holder at the work). However, I do have a nifty little set of Williams holders in "00" size that present the bit with only about a five degree positive rake. And, to confuse you even more, anything with a "T" prefix, as in a "T-0-R" will present the tool bit dead flat with no built in back rake. These were made specially for carbide tool bits, the "T" being for Tungsten carbide. 

Oh yes, the whole Left-Straight-Right thing. Right handed holders will angle the tool to the left toward the headstock, left handed holders will angle the bit towards the tail stock, and straight holders just point it straight ahead. Easy, eh? Just memorize it and get over it.

There are a few eBay sellers out there that specialize in Atlas parts and tooling, and even if you don't buy from a particular vendor you can learn a lot by looking at what sizes of tools, holders, etc they offer for the various sizes of lathes. With that, you can be a little more informed about what you're looking for.

And the really great thing about using 3/16" square tool bits? They're cheap, and they don't take more than five minutes to grind one! Good luck, and let us know how you make out.

-frank


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