# Atlas 10" Headstock Variants & Information Request



## wa5cab

For the benefit of the probably few who will be interested, here is the "other story" that I was referring to in a post yesterday.

First, to get this at the top, one of the two 10" parts list that we have that actually gives the part number of the bare headstock casting is the bad photos and list one on the 10E.  We have nothing directly on the 10D and the several illustrated parts lists that we have on the 10F only show the part number for the complete headstock assembly.  So if any of you currently have your headstock off of the bed, please find the part number in the casting and send it to me at my user ID plus at CS.com.  The number, which will be raised characters, should be found under the bottom of the headstock.  It might be visible if one were to roll the entire lathe upside down or go at it with lights and mirrors but that would be difficult and I only know from one example that it is on the side rather than end but don't know whether front or rear side.

The part number should be in one of these formats:

10-2 (that would be on the earliest version).
10A-2
10A-2A
10D-2
10D-2A
10D-2B
etc.


***
This addenda on part numbers is being written in 2022 but as it somewhat explains what the various letters and numbers mean or imply in the various part numbers, I elected to add it here rather than go through the entire thread and try to add what applies wherever it applies. 

In the above list, '10'  means that the item so identified is part of a 10" Atlas lathe. (which the Brits woulld have called a 5").  Note that once a part number was assigned, so long as it was unchanged, that part retained that part number.  So the 10" lathe,  the 12" Craftsman lathe, the mills and shapers, and my 3996 all still have a few parts with earlier part numbers including from the 9" lathe.  10A though 10F meant the presence or absence of one or more sub-assembles.  -2 meant the first version of the headstock casting and the finished machined part.  Suffix letters were used to indicate changes to a part.  AFAIK, the system did not tell you whether or not the revised part was or wasn't backwards compatible.  Some were, some weren't and some were but you also had to change one or more other parts in order for them to work.  Best example of the latter case would probably be the "A" rev change gears.  
***

With the part number will be most useful, but I also need the following:even if your headstock isn't off of the bed.

Part Number
Lathe Model Number off of nameplate (if present)
Machine Serial Number (stamped in front way near tailstock end)
Babbit or Timken Bearings
Vertical or Horizontal Countershaft (if known)
Bed Length (36, 42. 48, or 54)
Shape of protrusion from casting where motor ON/OFF switch is mounted. Known choices are:
    None (if switch is house type mounted in electrical box, or separate reversing switch, so         state, but still answer the next three questions)
    Oval with hole in center of flat for mounting switch
        Shape of hole, either round or rectangular or ?
    Rectangular with rectangular hole in flat that clears switch body.  Switch mounts to plate.

The currently known 10F illustrated parts lists begin with 10L-1A which introduced the Pick-O-Matic in January, 1946, and end with 10L-6 in June, 1966.  Plus we have 10L-36-2 on headstocks and vertical countershafts dated May, 1947.  All of these have three things in common.  The drawings all show the rectangular switch protrusion, the photographs on the front covers all show the oval switch protrusion, and none of them give a part number for the headstock castings. I had for a while assumed that the drawings were wrong.  But it turns out that the photos are wrong.

We do have one parts list (of the partial section view style, not illustrated) that does show part numbers for the Timken bearing headstock main casting.  But the part number shown on the section view is 10A-2A while the one shown in the parts list right below is 10A-2B.  So there is no indication as to whether that means 10A-2A is for the oval switch plate and 10A-2B for the rectangular.  or whether one is a typo.  Some data from actual headstock castings will answer that question.


----------



## John UK

wa5cab said:


> For the benefit of the probably few who will be interested, here is the "other story" that I was referring to in a post yesterday.
> 
> First, to get this at the top, one of the two 10" parts list that we have that actually gives the part number of the bare headstock casting is the bad photos and list one on the 10E.  We have nothing directly on the 10D and the several illustrated parts lists that we have on the 10F only show the part number for the complete headstock assembly.  So if any of you currently have your headstock off of the bed, please find the part number in the casting and send it to me at my user ID plus at CS.com.  The number, which will be raised characters, should be found under the bottom of the headstock.  It might be visible if one were to roll the entire lathe upside down or go at it with lights and mirrors but that would be difficult and I only know from one example that it is on the side rather than end but don't know whether front or rear side.
> 
> The part number should be in one of these formats:
> 
> 10-2 (that would be on the earliest version).
> 10A-2
> 10A-2A
> 10D-2
> 10D-2A
> 10D-2B
> etc.
> 
> With the part number will be most useful, but I also need the following:even if your headstock isn't off of the bed.
> 
> Part Number
> Lathe Model Number off of nameplate (if present)
> Machine Serial Number (stamped in front way near tailstock end)
> Babbit or Timken Bearings
> Vertical or Horizontal Countershaft (if known)
> Bed Length (36, 42. 48, or 54)
> Shape of protrusion from casting where motor ON/OFF switch is mounted. Known choices are:
> None (if switch is house type mounted in electrical box, or separate reversing switch, so         state, but still answer the next three questions)
> Oval with hole in center of flat for mounting switch
> Shape of hole, either round or rectangular or ?
> Rectangular with rectangular hole in flat that clears switch body.  Switch mounts to plate.
> 
> The currently known 10F illustrated parts lists begin with 10L-1A which introduced the Pick-O-Matic in January, 1946, and end with 10L-6 in June, 1966.  Plus we have 10L-36-2 on headstocks and vertical countershafts dated May, 1947.  All of these have three things in common.  The drawings all show the rectangular switch protrusion, the photographs on the front covers all show the oval switch protrusion, and none of them give a part number for the headstock castings. I had for a while assumed that the drawings were wrong.  But it turns out that the photos are wrong.
> 
> We do have one parts list (of the partial section view style, not illustrated) that does show part numbers for the Timken bearing headstock main casting.  But the part number shown on the section view is 10A-2A while the one shown in the parts list right below is 10A-2B.  So there is no indication as to whether that means 10A-2A is for the oval switch plate and 10A-2B for the rectangular.  or whether one is a typo.  Some data from actual headstock castings will answer that question.


----------



## John UK

Hi,John UK here;I have a Green painted "spare" 10" headstock.(used for turning large diameter pipes between chucks.the head is mounted on the bed in place of the tailstock).
There are no casting numbers on it.
Timken bearings.
Vertical coutershaft holes i think.
Switch mounting is flat,two holes with rectangular cutout.
This was bought here in the UK just as a headstock so no info on bed length etc.
It may be off a UK clone,eg Halifax or Acorn.
Incidentaly my 10" TV 54 has an Acorn QCGB but no idea if it was  fitted later or not.
Without the casting no: I don't know if this information will be of much use to you or not.
Best regards John.


----------



## timmeh

H/stock Pt #: 10D-2B (babbitt bearings)
Mod #: 10F (no I.D. plate present, has power crossfeed. Location(global) would suggest no alteration.)
Ser #: V19666S
C/shaft: Vert.
Bed Length: 42"
Switch: Rectangular with rectangular hole in flat that clears switch body. Switch mounts to plate.


----------



## wa5cab

Thanks.  The rectangular switch plate dates it to 1942 or later and the vertical countershaft apparently dates it to 1945 or earlier.


----------



## unioncreek

Hi Robert,

I tore my lathe completely apart to clean it up and repaint.  We've been exchanging posts on my purchase of the late in my other post.

Here's the info on my headstock:


Part Number: 10D-2B
Lathe Model Number off of nameplate: H54
Machine Serial Number: 025552
Babbit or Timken Bearings: Babbit
Vertical or Horizontal Countershaft: Horizontal
Bed Length:54
Protrusion of switch hole rectangular with rectangular hole in flat that clears switch body. Switch mounts to plate.
Power cross feed.
Reversible lead screw, diameter of lead screw is 3/4 inch.

If you need anymore casting numbers on anything let me know. There easy to get to right now with it all apart.

Bob


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  Thanks.  That confirms that when they made the transition from oval to rectangular switch plates circa 1942, they did it on both the Timken and the babbit bearing headstocks.  And then only made the latter for another 2 or 3 years.  That plus the serial number rules out it being a 10D that someone converted to power cross feed.  I think that the rest of the lathe should all be the same as any other 10F.


----------



## frankonthetis

Are you still looking for Atlas headstock information?   Have my 10D in pieces for cleaning then repainting.  Here is a picture of the number in the headstock.  No plate number available and the serial number unreadable.  54" bed length, Vertical countershaft, Babbit Bearings, lead screw 5/8".
Frank


----------



## wa5cab

Yes. every little bit helps,.  It is a little difficult to read at that angle and I can't seem to rotate the photo.  Confirm that it says 10D-2.

On the illegible serial number, can you take and post a photo of it?


----------



## frankonthetis

Robert, rotated the headstock picture to show the 10D-2 numbers.  It definitely is 10D-2.  Just cleaning the paint off the bed right now and it is a better location for me to take a picture of the serial number.  Will get that to you in the next few days.  Have some gun blue on hand that is used to high lite handsaw etches.  Do you think this might bring out the serial number better?
Thanks again for all your help and information.  While it is pieces are there any other items you would like pictures of.
Frank


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  Yes, rotating the photo makes it legible without having to stand on my head.  
 Painting the S.N area with the bluing and or then wiping it off might bring up the contrast, Worth trying, anyway. A photo of the top of the cross slide without the compound swivel would give a S/N break-point . A photo of the front of the headstock could help. Anyone else is welcome to chime in.


----------



## frankonthetis

Robert here are some pictures starting with casting # in the bed.  Have taken pictures of the saddle with compound bits and then bottoms showing the casting #'s.  The tool post unit looks different from what other pics on this site show.  Tried using gun blue but the serial # is still iffy. Could be a D or P 7605 then S or 8.  Your guess would be as good as mine.  Here goes with a bunch of pics.
Frank


----------



## wa5cab

Frank,

OK.  The Serial Number is 7605 or to use the fixed length that has to be used in the database 007605.  And the full string actually stamped into the way is D 7605 S.  I decided this based upon the facts that we know that it is a 10D plus there is no other case where Atlas stamped "P" in that location in anything else.  And all other machines around that serial number have or are reported to have an "S" after the S/N.  

However, I will add that the compound slide appears to have had some whittling done on the left half as shown in your photo titled "crossslide w compound".  The part number will probably be 9-303 but just to be on the safe side, find a small permanent magnet and confirm that it sticks to the compound slide.

,


----------



## frankonthetis

Thanks Robert.  It looked to me like there was a small mark at the bottom going to the right which would indicate a "D".  After the 5 the faint mark looked like the top curve of an "S".  The rebuilt lathe will have numerous replacement parts as numerous original bits were brazed.
Will check out the compound and take a couple more pictures.  Probably end of week before that gets done as cataract surgery tomorrow.
Thanks again.
Frank


----------



## frankonthetis

Robert a magnet does stick to the compound but highly unlikely it is originally to our Atlas.  No markings anywhere.  It looks different from the pictures of the normal Atlas compound.  Could you indicate the area you  felt had some "whittling" done on the compound slide please.  Looked at the 3 components, compound slide, upper & lower swivel units and could see nothing that looked either broken or altered.  [Bear in mind recent cataract surgery so close items still difficult to see clearly!!!]  These 2 pictures show the top & bottom of the compound.


----------



## wa5cab

The original compound slides all seem to be slightly tapered, smaller on the end closest to the removable plate than on the end closest to the T-slot.  Looking at the top view, I would guess that the slide was machined from a solid bar.  The "whittling" that I referred to were the cutter marks, which show up more in the other photo than in the current top view.  It wasn't as obvious that the slide wasn't a modified original as it is with the top view.. So just disregard the earlier comment.  The whole thing was "whittled" out of bar.


----------



## frankonthetis

Okay, thanks for that explanation Robert.


----------



## dbassing

wa5cab said:


> For the benefit of the probably few who will be interested, here is the "other story" that I was referring to in a post yesterday.
> 
> First, to get this at the top, one of the two 10" parts list that we have that actually gives the part number of the bare headstock casting is the bad photos and list one on the 10E.  We have nothing directly on the 10D and the several illustrated parts lists that we have on the 10F only show the part number for the complete headstock assembly.  So if any of you currently have your headstock off of the bed, please find the part number in the casting and send it to me at my user ID plus at CS.com.  The number, which will be raised characters, should be found under the bottom of the headstock.  It might be visible if one were to roll the entire lathe upside down or go at it with lights and mirrors but that would be difficult and I only know from one example that it is on the side rather than end but don't know whether front or rear side.
> 
> The part number should be in one of these formats:
> 
> 10-2 (that would be on the earliest version).
> 10A-2
> 10A-2A
> 10D-2
> 10D-2A
> 10D-2B
> etc.
> 
> With the part number will be most useful, but I also need the following:even if your headstock isn't off of the bed.
> 
> Part Number
> Lathe Model Number off of nameplate (if present)
> Machine Serial Number (stamped in front way near tailstock end)
> Babbit or Timken Bearings
> Vertical or Horizontal Countershaft (if known)
> Bed Length (36, 42. 48, or 54)
> Shape of protrusion from casting where motor ON/OFF switch is mounted. Known choices are:
> None (if switch is house type mounted in electrical box, or separate reversing switch, so         state, but still answer the next three questions)
> Oval with hole in center of flat for mounting switch
> Shape of hole, either round or rectangular or ?
> Rectangular with rectangular hole in flat that clears switch body.  Switch mounts to plate.
> 
> The currently known 10F illustrated parts lists begin with 10L-1A which introduced the Pick-O-Matic in January, 1946, and end with 10L-6 in June, 1966.  Plus we have 10L-36-2 on headstocks and vertical countershafts dated May, 1947.  All of these have three things in common.  The drawings all show the rectangular switch protrusion, the photographs on the front covers all show the oval switch protrusion, and none of them give a part number for the headstock castings. I had for a while assumed that the drawings were wrong.  But it turns out that the photos are wrong.
> 
> We do have one parts list (of the partial section view style, not illustrated) that does show part numbers for the Timken bearing headstock main casting.  But the part number shown on the section view is 10A-2A while the one shown in the parts list right below is 10A-2B.  So there is no indication as to whether that means 10A-2A is for the oval switch plate and 10A-2B for the rectangular.  or whether one is a typo.  Some data from actual headstock castings will answer that question.


Hi, saw your request for info re Atlas lathes. A friend just brought me a 10” Atlas lathe to clean and go through it. This is what I have as far as info.
Atlas 10”. 36” bed length
Serial # V 17419 S  
Vertical counter shaft
Head stock casting # 10D-2A
Babbit bearings 
3/4” diameter lead screw
Oval protrusion in area of on/ off switch
Rectangular hole for switch
Switch mounted on oval plate

Is there a parts diagram for the headstock using Babbitt bearings?
Any idea as to the age?

Hope this helps
David


----------



## wa5cab

David,

Something about your post was bothering me but until about 15 minutes ago the shoe finally dropped.  

But first, on both the Atlas 10" and the Craftsman 12", at the original introductions only the babbit spindle bearings were available.  But within about a year in both cases, both sizes were available with both bearing types.  So generally speaking, spindle bearing types don't have anything to do with date of manufacture.  Atlas discontinued the babbit bearings circa 1945.  Based mainly on the serial number, I would put the date at some time in 1940.  

What was bothering me was that you said that the lead screw diameter was 3/4".  The 10D had a 5/8" diameter lead screw.  And a one-piece carriage.  The 10F had a 3/4" diameter lead screw, power cross-feed and a 2-piece carriage, with saddle and apron two separate parts.  So what made you think that the machine was a 10D instead of a 10F?

One other difference between the 10D and the 10F is that the 10D had the symmetrical rectangular legs which could be attached two ways.  W
Whereas AFAIK the 10F al;ways had the later style that "leaned" toward the center of the lathe bed.  Which type does yours have?  And does it have power cross feed?

According to the probable date of manufacture the nameplate was probably on the rear of the bed instead of being on the right end.  If it is present. what is thembodel number?


----------



## dbassing

wa5cab said:


> David,
> 
> Something about your post was bothering me but until about 15 minutes ago the shoe finally dropped.
> 
> But first, on both the Atlas 10" and the Craftsman 12", at the original introductions only the babbit spindle bearings were available.  But within about a year in both cases, both sizes were available with both bearing types.  So generally speaking, spindle bearing types don't have anything to do with date of manufacture.  Atlas discontinued the babbit bearings circa 1945.  Based mainly on the serial number, I would put the date at some time in 1940.
> 
> What was bothering me was that you said that the lead screw diameter was 3/4".  The 10D had a 5/8" diameter lead screw.  And a one-piece carriage.  The 10F had a 3/4" diameter lead screw, power cross-feed and a 2-piece carriage, with saddle and apron two separate parts.  So what made you think that the machine was a 10D instead of a 10F?
> 
> One other difference between the 10D and the 10F is that the 10D had the symmetrical rectangular legs which could be attached two ways.  W
> Whereas AFAIK the 10F al;ways had the later style that "leaned" toward the center of the lathe bed.  Which type does yours have?  And does it have power cross feed?
> 
> According to the probable date of manufacture the nameplate was probably on the rear of the bed instead of being on the right end.  If it is present. what is thembodel number?





wa5cab said:


> David,
> 
> Something about your post was bothering me but until about 15 minutes ago the shoe finally dropped.
> 
> But first, on both the Atlas 10" and the Craftsman 12", at the original introductions only the babbit spindle bearings were available.  But within about a year in both cases, both sizes were available with both bearing types.  So generally speaking, spindle bearing types don't have anything to do with date of manufacture.  Atlas discontinued the babbit bearings circa 1945.  Based mainly on the serial number, I would put the date at some time in 1940.
> 
> What was bothering me was that you said that the lead screw diameter was 3/4".  The 10D had a 5/8" diameter lead screw.  And a one-piece carriage.  The 10F had a 3/4" diameter lead screw, power cross-feed and a 2-piece carriage, with saddle and apron two separate parts.  So what made you think that the machine was a 10D instead of a 10F?
> 
> One other difference between the 10D and the 10F is that the 10D had the symmetrical rectangular legs which could be attached two ways.  W
> Whereas AFAIK the 10F al;ways had the later style that "leaned" toward the center of the lathe bed.  Which type does yours have?  And does it have power cross feed?
> 
> According to the probable date of manufacture the nameplate was probably on the rear of the bed instead of being on the right end.  If it is present. what is thembodel number?


Thank you for your reply. This is the first Atlas lathe I have ever seen in person so I am quite new to this lathe. I don’t remember saying this is a 10 D just that you wanted the headstock casting number. It does not have a nameplate on the back or right side end. Just the serial number. It does have a power cross feed and a 2 piece saddle. I’ve taken all that apart and freed up some of the shafts that were a bit tight from lack of oil. There appears to be very little wear on the ways and the gears. It is missing most of the change gears. Any good sources for these?
I don’t see how power is transmitted from the lead screw to drive the carriage longitudinally other than engaging the half nuts. Am I missing something?

 I have a parts diagram for an Atlas lathe that has Timken bearings which has been helpful but there are parts of this diagram that is different from my lathe. Specifically the babbit bearing headstock and the back gears. Would you know of a source for these?

I’ve included some pics showing the bed and legs and some others that may be of some interest. Hope this helps and thanks again for your help. 
David


----------

