# Rutlands/Long Chang LC-1 project...



## Rennkafer

Bought this a few weeks back for cheap (relatively).  Picked this one up off of a guy who'd bought it to rebuild and CNC convert but who had lost his work facility and was madly putting machines into storage.  For those not familiar, Rutlands (and a host of others including Sharp, Enco, etc) bring/brought in their own branded Long Chang LC-1's (sold under the "First" brand by LC themselves).  This one is a step pulley model (the "TM" head), but I'm planning to run a VFD on it so I'll basically have a pair of variable speed ranges.  They're decent machines (Taiwanese) and parts are readily available.  I was surprised to find they were still making these, their website is in decent English, and they wrote back with a US dealer for parts right away (Sharp, amongst others).  Specs here: http://first.com.tw/e_lc-1.htm

Kind of a mill "kit"









It's mostly in decent (but dirty) shape.  Since getting it I've gotten the column/knee cleaned, the saddle cleaned and sitting on the ways, column cap cleaned and installed, and torn down the quill housing.  Only stupid thing I've found so far was some rocket scientist had taken the quill end cap off with a pipe wrench because he didn't remove the set screw.  Took most of the thread off of the end cap so that's on the replacement list.  Fortunately the quill wasn't damaged.  Same RS had replaced the spindle bearings with regular ball bearings rather than the correct precision angular contact bearings.  Bearings have been procured and I'm making up a list of other items I'll need.  From my parts pricing I'll be into it total about what a (cheap) used machine would normally cost around here but I'll have a freshly rebuilt head.

I'm currently getting down to the last bits of going through the Logan lathe I purchased in December (right before a 3 month out of country work trip), so once that's done I'll be continuing on with this.


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## Rennkafer

So since I'm about done with my lathe rebuild (that went on a fair bit longer than I intended since I decided to paint it) I started looking for parts for the mill head.  Found out that since mine is an older version, Sharp (the US dealer) has no records on my particular serial number and won't quote any parts.  Haven't had any success finding a parts head, so it looks like I'm faced with either finding a used Bridgeport head (same bolt pattern to the ram adapter), or buying a new import head.

Anyone have a spare J-head for sale or have any experience with Gromax or Eisen replacement heads?


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## Rbeckett

Do you have the OE manual and parts diagram that came with the machine?  If you have the part numbers available from the diagrams then you should have no problem getting the parts you need from a dealer.  It might be worth contacting the home office in Taiwan and explaining what you need and the difficulty you are having with the US dealer and they may be able to help you get what you need.  They want to sell parts and to keep selling machines, so it is in there best interest to help you if they can.  Worth a try anyway...

Bob


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## Rennkafer

Rbeckett said:


> Do you have the OE manual and parts diagram that came with the machine?  If you have the part numbers available from the diagrams then you should have no problem getting the parts you need from a dealer.  It might be worth contacting the home office in Taiwan and explaining what you need and the difficulty you are having with the US dealer and they may be able to help you get what you need.  They want to sell parts and to keep selling machines, so it is in there best interest to help you if they can.  Worth a try anyway...
> 
> Bob



Thanks for the reply Bob.  The first thing I did actually (before I bought the mill) was look up the manufacturer to make sure they were still in business.  After I purchased it I contacted them about parts and was directed to their US dealer (Sharp).  Just lately I've gotten some imformation claiming that Sharp had bought Long Chang so if that's the case (and I have on reason to suspect that info to be wrong) I'm actually dealing with the manufacturer in Sharp, who seem to have no interest in helping.  

Maybe I'll throw another email at Long Chang and see if they're willing/able to intercede.  I'd really rather not buy parts out of Taiwan directly as with shipping they're probably more expensive than a new head.


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## Rennkafer

Well, after no reply from Long Chang, and another unreturned call to the guy I bought the mill from (to see if maybe he'd found a box of pieces somewhere) I broke down and bought a 2hp Bridgeport Vari-speed head from a machinery dealer on EBay.  It's claimed to be working properly with good spindle bearings, so we'll see what it looks like when it arrives.  

At least if it has issues, parts are available...


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## Rbeckett

Sometimes you are pleasantly surprised by the dealers and vendore in Taiwan and china.  They seem to have pretty cheap connections to their postal services and manage to do a lot of very cheap or free shipping.  I buy a considerable amount of stuff from china in my electronics hobby and have been averaging 9 days from order to arrival and have never had an issue with a lost package.  I did have one issue with a poorly made item and they refunded the price I paid immediately with no hassles or questions asked.   Just remember China and Taiwan are almost 12 hours different from the eastern time zone, so you may be trying to call them in the middle of their night.  Anyway, that was just a thought, so please keep us informed of how it is going if you find a BP head and it fits.

Bob


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## Rennkafer

Thanks Bob... I'm fairly aware of the time difference problem as my wife is from the Philippines.  My concern with shipping wasn't so much that it would get lost but more that the parts are a little heavier than most and would probably not be cheap.  Didn't really matter since they didn't bother getting back to me and at this point it's a non issue since I found and  purchased a 2J2 BP head last evening.  The BP head should bolt right up as the bolt pattern from the head to the ram adapter is the same (I measured and checked with a BP parts supplier I've had good luck with).  

I'll have more pics once the head gets here and I get rolling with the reassembly.  Trying to decide whether to take the knee off for cleaning...


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## LEEQ

What does a 2j2 head bring these days, if you don't mind me asking? I would like to have one and it would be easier to upgrade the head and sell mine than to buy a machine and sell mine.


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## Rennkafer

*Re: Rutlands/Long Chang LC-1/ Bridgeport 2J2 project*



LEEQ said:


> What does a 2j2 head bring these days, if you don't mind me asking? I would like to have one and it would be easier to upgrade the head and sell mine than to buy a machine and sell mine.



I paid $799 plus shipping.  The price on this one was somewhat lower than normal, I suspect because it's a QC30 spindle rather than an R8 which is vastly more common (and much more in demand).  Since I'm not tooled up at all I decided to just go with the QC30 and pay the somewhat higher tooling cost as I can spread that out over as long as I want.

When I started looking I was mostly looking at step pulley J heads and they were mostly between $1000-2000 (for R8 spindles).

Talked with the company I bought it from today, it's shipping tomorrow so I should have it within the next week.


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## woodtickgreg

I watched your lathe build, so now I will watch this mill build with great interest.


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## Rennkafer

I stopped at the local auto body supply store today and bought filler and sandpaper... I'm seriously sick I think.


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## Chuck K

Rennkafer said:


> I stopped at the local auto body supply store today and bought filler and sandpaper... I'm seriously sick I think.



Yep....when you start using bondo...you're sick )

Chuck


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## Rennkafer

Well my BP head that was supposed to ship on Wed, actually went out on Fri.  The seller is blaming it on the trucking company... as long as it gets here in one piece a couple days doesn't really matter I guess.


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## drs23

woodtickgreg said:


> I watched your lathe build, so now I will watch this mill build with great interest.





Rennkafer said:


> I stopped at the local auto body supply store today and bought filler and sandpaper... I'm seriously sick I think.



Do you have a link to your lathe rebuild that Greg mentions above? I just love to see a project go from before and after. I've read every one I can find and am amazed at the quality and craftsmanship and the love that goes into bringing these fine machines back to their former glory.

And of course I'll be watching you resurrect your mill as well.

Chop, chop!


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## Rennkafer

drs23 said:


> Do you have a link to your lathe rebuild that Greg mentions above? I just love to see a project go from before and after. I've read every one I can find and am amazed at the quality and craftsmanship and the love that goes into bringing these fine machines back to their former glory.
> 
> And of course I'll be watching you resurrect your mill as well.
> 
> Chop, chop!



http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/15424-My-Logan-12x24-lathe-project

Enjoy!

I bought some primer, more paint (same smoke gray as the lathe) and more rollers today...  tried to buy a 5/8-11 eyebolt for picking up the ram but no luck.  May have to order one from McMaster-Carr.


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## Rennkafer

Replacement mill head got here today, only a week late.  The trucking company did send it out on a lift gate truck though after I was (politely) pissy with them about it on Tuesday (who sends a non-liftgate truck to a residential address).  I never realized how much bigger a Vari-speed Bridgeport head is than a step-pulley head... the thing's enormous.  Looks to be in decent shape, and has the only air brake I've seen on a BP.  I've seen lots of powered drawbars (which this doesn't have being a QC30 spindle), but never a brake.  Also has something bolted over the quill scale which looks to be some sort of indicator holder.  More investigation will follow.


I made a shiny spot on the bare aluminum upper head... you know what that means.


Pics...


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## Rennkafer

Did a little work on the track car engine this weekend and also started taking apart the new mill head to go through it today. Major assemblies came apart super easy. Everything looks to be in good though incredibly dirty condition. Also looks like it might have gotten a bit damp on the way here, little bit of flash rust on the drive pulleys but comes right off with a little scotchbrite. Motor spins nicely, all bearings feel good, mostly just needs a ton of cleaning and regreasing. While I'm in I'll probably redo the bushings, bearings, and belts as they're not terribly expensive (and I won't have to take it apart again).

Pics as usual...


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## Rennkafer

More done on the mill head tonight, took the upper belt housing apart.  Very very dirty but didn't find anything I didn't expect.  The bushing in the moveable side of the front sheave is paper thin and had a bunch of slop.  Bearings don't feel too bad but I'll replace them all.  Belts look old but not in bad shape.  Thinking about taking the big castings over to the local auto parts machine shop to have them put through the parts washer cabinet, would save me a bunch of time cleaning.

Pics...


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## Rennkafer

More progress has been made, but also some unfortunate discoveries.  What I thought might have been a little dampness getting into it from shipping turns out to have been the supplier pressure washing it.  While doing so they filled up the cavity where the feed reverse/feed worm shaft goes, turning everything inside into a ball of rust.  I had my first warning of bad stuff when I took off the gear housing from the quill housing and found this:

Nice puddle of water... the head had been lying on its side so corrosion was limited to the side of the casting here.  A little wirebrushing and metalprep then paint will fix that.









Continued to disassemble, and everything else on the head was pretty decent... until I got to the aforementioned feed reverse/feed worm shaft area.  Where I found this:

















You can see the water in the gear teeth here...






The good part is the machine tool company I bought it from are being stand-up guys and making good on it... it's about $300 worth of destroyed pieces.  They haven't paid me yet though.


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## LEEQ

I'm curious what company you went with. I think I could swap parts/spindles on a head like that. I think you got a good deal and the fact that they are willing to help you is outstanding.


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## Rennkafer

LEEQ said:


> I'm curious what company you went with. I think I could swap parts/spindles on a head like that. I think you got a good deal and the fact that they are willing to help you is outstanding.




Central Penn Machinery is the name of the place, out of Lebanon, PA.  I can't complain too much, I paid $799 for the head which is about half (or less) what they normally go for.  If it weren't for them blasting water into it, I'd be perfectly happy with what I've found so far.  For that price I expected a functional head that needed a rebuild (which the upper head does need).  The spindle is beautiful on it actually, though I may change it out for the R8 spindle from the Long Chang head (same bearings/same length/same splines) just to get cheaper tooling.  Haven't made up my mind for sure yet (and I already have a new spindle bearing set if I decide to do that).  Also unfortunate, the parts from the feed reverse/feed worm shaft were messed up on the LC head too, so they're of no use.


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## LEEQ

Well at least you can take advantage of Bport parts availability and reasonable prices. It's a great benefit. You don't have to wait for it to show up on ebay or pay an arm and a leg. If your rusty parts don't get replaced, you can find them yourself. Congrats on the lc spindle fitting. I would definitely go r8. Good luck.


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## Rennkafer

That's why, when I couldn't get OEM parts for the head that was on it, I specifically looked for a BP head since they're the same mount and parts are likely to be available well past the next ice age...

On that subject, ordered a bunch of stuff this week for the head (other than the rusty stuff which I'm still waiting for Central Penn to deal with).  Got all the head rebuild parts on the way. Found some of it cheap on Ebay, some I ordered from H&W (wonderful people to deal with, and they tolerate questions well).  Also did some fiddling with some column/knee parts, found out that the BP dials don't quite fit my knee dial holder (they're about a net fit) but after I cleaned up the threads the dial lock nut screwed right on.  Taiwanese mill with standard threads... I like it.  They were really serious about copying the Bridgeport pretty exactly 30-35 years ago apparently.  

BP head parts might have fixed the OEM head, but I didn't want to order a bunch of parts and then find the one part that wouldn't work and screw up the whole thing. I may scavenge used bits off of Ebay when I get the BP head back together and see if I can put the OEM one together too... just for a spare.  And cause I need more projects...


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## LEEQ

Don't we all need more projects? I don't know if I'll ever get to build anything else, but making parts and tooling has been mighty fun and satisfying.


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## Rennkafer

So it's been a while and some progress has been made...

I managed to coax some money back out of Central Penn for the stuff they screwed up by pressure washing the BP head (which they admitted to).  Wasn't enough to buy all new parts but I lucked out and found some on Ebay in good shape.  Also figured out the motor shaft was worn a bit more than I was comfortable with (about .013") so ordered a rebuilt unit (pics to follow).  I've gotten the motor disassembled (not really that hard) and I'm waiting to go over to a friends house and press all the bearings off of everything (motor/varispeed sheaves/spindle) so they can be replaced.  Then time to clean all the external parts up and paint them.  Other than the shaft, the motor looked great internally.  

Not sure what I'm going to do about refinishing the column as my garage isn't heated and it's a bit too cold out to paint at the moment.

Motor pics...

















You can see the wear in the shaft here...





The rebuilt shaft...


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## Rennkafer

Got some more done on the motor this weekend, cleaned the outside of the winding heatsink and the upper bearing cap.  Not really sure what grease got sucked through this thing but man it's hard to get off.  Ended up using my secret stash of old solvent which cleaned it right off.  Just have to be careful to work with the door open and wear gloves.  Also took the outer motor covers and upper/lower belt covers to the local pressure washer thinking that would get them clean.  Engine cleaner and the pressure washer barely touched the stuff (same stuff as on the motor heatsink/bearing cap).  A bunch more hand cleaning is needed on the belt covers before they're ready for polishing but the motor covers are ready to be sanded/painted.

A few pics...


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