# New PM25MV on the way!



## JohnsonFabrication

Got notice my new PM25MV is on the way here and should be here by Friday!. My cnc kit for it will be here tomorrow, and the control board kit will be here later this week or first of next week. Can't wait to start on this machine. )


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## drs23

JohnsonFabrication said:


> Got notice my new PM25MV is on the way here and should be here by Friday!. My cnc kit for it will be here tomorrow, and the control board kit will be here later this week or first of next week. *Can't wait to start on this machine.* )



Me either can't wait to see you start on this machine...with pictures! )


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## JohnsonFabrication

Got the mobile base yesterday, the cnc kit came in today, and the mill will be here between noon and 3 tomorrow, will post some pics this weekend, been a good week so far.


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## wrmiller

Subscribed...  :watchingyou:


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## JohnsonFabrication

Pics of the cnc kit and motors, mobile base, and mill crate, all here. the ball screws are on back order though anic:


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## brav65

congrats@  I got mine today as well!


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## JohnsonFabrication

Had to work today, so not much done, but I did start unpacking it, and building the mobile base.


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## JohnsonFabrication

here's the mill in the crate.


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## JohnsonFabrication

building the mobile base.


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## brav65

Nice, I took apart my table today and cleaned everything.  It is amazing how gummed up everything is.  I used green scrubies and WD40 and everything looks sooooo nice now.  Now I need to figure out how it all goes back together ;-)...


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## Rbeckett

It is soooo much fun opening a crate and seeing a brandy brand mew machine that nobody has ever had an opportunity to mess up.  Once you two finish uncrating and Johnson Fab gets his CNC kit on and working you two will have a ton of fun learning how the machine can help you.  Once you start using it, you will start to wonder why you didn't do this earlier.  Good luck and have fun uncrating them.

Bob


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## ed0849

Nice I wish I had all that CNC stuff, maybe someday I will do that but I want to learn how to use the machine manually first. I got my X DRO installed today start the Y tomorrow. Good luck with yours.


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## wrmiller

ed0849 said:


> Nice I wish I had all that CNC stuff, maybe someday I will do that but I want to learn how to use the machine manually first. I got my X DRO installed today start the Y tomorrow. Good luck with yours.



That reminds me that I have to order my DroPro 3M today. Hate installing them, but love using them.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Today's progress, got the mobile base done, the vise cleaned, and the mill up on the stand an in it's new position. 
Found a couple things wrong with all of this today. 
1st, the knob/jack screw on the mobile base is not long enough. I am going to have to find a knob with a longer screw stud on it, there is less than 3/8 inch of adjustment on it when it is installed, and with the sloping floor in my garage, that is not enough. 
2nd. the y table stop adjusting screw handles are real chintzy and just trying to gently adjust one of them, it broke in my hand. I will be getting a better quality one out of stainless from McMaster-Carr or Grainger to replace both of them. Other than that, i'm real happy with my purchase so far. Man, there is a lot of that yellow goo on the machine, going to take me a few days to clean all that off. I need to take it apart anyway to install the cnc kit, so may as well start now. 

Mobile Base done




Chip tray placed on the stand



Opening the rest of the crate


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## JohnsonFabrication

Vise before cleaning. I got a 5inch vise, a little big for the machine, but they were out of the 4inch vises, and this was only 10 dollars more. You can really see in this picture how much of that yellow goo is on everything.



Vise after cleaning


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## JohnsonFabrication

Putting the mill up on the stand, and putting it in its new home )
Hmmm, all this blue, i should have bought a Dillon 550b reloading machine instead of a Hornady, so all my machines would match!

Pulling it out of the crate



Up on the stand!



Mill relocated



My machines, together at last


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## zmotorsports

Congrats on your new Precision Mathews machine.  Nice job on the stand as well.  Looks great.


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## brav65

Nice Work, I have taken the bed off of my machine and cleaned everything off.  There was a lot of grime on the lead screws and ways.  Everything is clean, I just need to reassemble.  Next I will tackle the z-axis and mill head.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Well, i got my control box kit in, i got a 4 axis controller from CNC4PC and decided to save a little money and put it together myself. Got the box on Wednesday and opened it up and wow are there a lot of parts in that box. I will be taking some pics this weekend as I strive to assemble it. Might be a good tutorial as i work through the thing one piece at a time. It's going to be a challenge, the box itself even has to be put together. The bottom plate has about 60 pre-drilled and tapped holes, but there is no documentation as to what goes in what hole. There is a basic layout diagram of the box, but it's not very detailed. This is going to be a fun challenge, and i will share it with you all. So, the basics of what came is a C32 ethernet breakout board, ethernet smoothstepper card, 3 each KL8056 drivers, 1 KL8070 driver, KL600 power supply, and various other boards for relays, and miscellaneous small parts. It even comes with connecting wire, the kit is pretty complete, i must say. 
I'm going to have to practice my soldering skills a little also, i'm a little rusty at that, been a while. 
I haven't decided yet how or where i'm going to mount the box when it is assembled. the sides have ears for a rack mount, but I don't think i want to mount it directly on the machine when chips and coolant start flying. I have been considering getting a 12U mobile rack to put it in, then i can get a 4u server compartment and build a pc to put in there and have it all self contained in one unit. the mobile racks are a little spendy though, i'll have to think a little more on that.


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## JohnsonFabrication

ok, here we go on today's pictures:

Here is the kit as i received it. 



I started out trying to pre-fit everything before i tightened down all the bolts, here is trying to figure out which bolt holes to use for the KL600 power supply



Pre-fitting the board mounting bracket.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Prefitting the boards. 




Installing the stand offs



Power supply and bracket installed



second power supply and drivers installed



C32 and smoothstepper installed.


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## JohnsonFabrication

tomorrow, I am going to work on the wiring. I had to order some rj45 adapters for the drivers, I accidentally bought the ones for the non-digital kelig drivers instead of the ones for the digital drivers that i need. So, i will do the wiring that i can, but the control box won't be ready to test for another week.


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## ed0849

Wow it will be great to see this all together and running, nice job.


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## brav65

I second the WOW! You are very brave to tackle something like that.  I am going to watch closely to see if it is something I want to try in the future.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Notes on the enclosure for the cnc kit:

The kit comes with what looks like #6 sheet metal screws to put the unit together with. there are holes pre-drilled in each plate, however, the metal is pretty thick, and these screws are not very good quality. They do not go in easy, and they are so soft the phillips rounds out very easily. What I am going to do is drill and tap all the holes that receive the screw to 6-32, and replace them all with socket head screws. this will make the box much easier to open if i need to, and will look nicer to boot.


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## Rbeckett

Subacribed and watching with great anticipation for the steppers to turn and your CNC kit installed.  The DRO will be a real life saver too so I am also looking forward to your install of that too.  Keep up the great work and don't forget the pics every time you get a chance!!!

Bob


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## Chip

Outstanding write up Sir! Lots of good pics of the process too, I will be following this thread for sure.


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## wrmiller

Please do be careful of static discharge. If you were doing this in one of my labs with no ESD protection we would have to have a chat.    (joke)

If nothing else, there are these little adapters that plug into a standard 3-prong outlet to bring out the ground so a wrist strap can be attached. Just don't want you popping something while having all this fun.


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## tmarks11

JohnsonFabrication said:


> Vise before cleaning. I got a 5inch vise:
> View attachment 85519


I recommend you take the swivel off the vise and put it on the shelf until you are doing an operation you actually need it for.  The rest of the time, it will just add flex to your setup, take up z space, and make the vise that much heavier to put on and take off the table.  Depending on how well the surfaces are ground, it can also add an unwanted tramming error to your setup.

On a cnc mill, there is absolutely no need to have a swivel, and it just adds one more source of error to your setup.


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## tmarks11

CNC4PC makes some nice looking control boxes. They really make it easy to come up with a professional looking installation, and take some of the pain out of the process.

You going to rack mount that thing when you are done?


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## JohnsonFabrication

If i can find a mobile rack that is cheap enough, i sure will rack mount it. I'd like to do that with the pc too, so it's all in one unit. I'd get one big enough for a second control panel also, for a future cnc lathe. The cnc control box is a 4u height for rack mounting.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Not much wiring done today, been fighting with the final fit of the enclosure most of the day. none of the side plate screw holes line up. In addition to that, the back panel is about 1/16 inch too long on one side, so it didn't fit between the side plates. Yes i could have milled it down, probably faster, but it was late, and i opted to do it with a large double cut bastard file. After about 20 minutes of filing, voila, back plate now fits. 
On the side plates, i ended up putting the top and bottom on then drilling larger holes and using the socket screws with nuts on the inside. Seemed to be the only way to get every thing lined up properly. 
After that, got the 110v circuits all wired up, will post pics of it tomorrow. Have to wire up the rest of it now, then I have to wait for the final parts to get here on Wednesday or Thursday before i can test.


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## catoctin

This really can be a problem especially with the crisp dry colder months approaching.  It is always a good idea to discharge immediately (grab the ground strap for example) when walking up to your table.  Also, avoid static producing clothing like sweaters and nylon jackets.  A company I used to work for required test line workers to wear conductive smocks after a person in packaging (wearing a ground strap) was zapping microprocessor oscillators.

-Joe  



wrmiller19 said:


> Please do be careful of static discharge. If you were doing this in one of my labs with no ESD protection we would have to have a chat.    (joke)
> 
> If nothing else, there are these little adapters that plug into a standard 3-prong outlet to bring out the ground so a wrist strap can be attached. Just don't want you popping something while having all this fun.


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## brav65

How goes the assembly?  I am playing with my machine, but I really do not know what I am doing, so no finished product yet.


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## JohnsonFabrication

The ball screws are supposed to be here tomorrow, but the rest of the control panel parts won't be here until saturday or monday. I'm at a standstill on the control box until i get them. I will probably do the machine cleaning and disassembly this weekend to prep for ball screw installation. Not sure how i'm going to do the clearance on the saddle, as i don't have a drill press, but i'll figure out something. I may have to take it in to work to do it after hours. 
Meanwhile, still having major issues with the cam software, that i'm trying to get worked through. For the money it cost, i do think it should have worked considerably better than it has. I'm thinking i would have been better off just programming with the g-code directly. I'll get it resolved one way or another, whether they provide me with a download that actually works, or i get my money back.


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## brav65

Sorry to hear about the software troubles.  Cleaning the machine up is not too bad  I have not taken my head off yet as I have been using the mill to fab up some brackets for my DRO install.  I have been making the job overly complicated, but I guess that is the fun of it.  My leadscrews were packed with black gunk that I had to scrub out with a stiff bristle brush.  the table moves like butter now all the way out to the end.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Got some new pics today, so here goes!
We will start with some control box wiring pictures. Bear in mind that i will go back after i make sure everything works and tidy up the wires, but for now, just connecting everything. 

Wiring up the chassis ground. 




Working on the 110v circuit. 



110v circuit complete with both power supplies, and the auxiliary 110v plug for coolant pump. 



These are replacing some items that came in the kit. The ethernet connectors on the right are rubberized panel mount pass through connectors with a pigtail. These replace 3 of the way too long ethernet patchcords that came in the kit. the 4 red ethernet cables will be to connect the drivers, again to replace the way too long cables that came in the kit. the black ethernet cable is for the external e-stop/probe board connector, once again to replace the way too long cable. 
the new cables are 1ft long, vs the 3ft cables that came with the kit. These came from MCM Electronics, and were very reasonable on price. the 1ft cables were less than 2 bucks each. 



Here are the motor cable connectors soldered up that connect to the drivers. Red is A+ on pin 1, white is A- on pin 2, Black is B+ on pin 3, and green is B- on pin 4. I'm not the best at soldering, but they are done and holding. The wires are 18awg, in SO 18/4 cord form, i replaced the hookup wire in the kit with this, will keep things more neat and tidy.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Mechanical pictures in this post. 

The new knob on the left for the mobile base to replace the way too short knob that came with it on the right. These came from McMaster-Carr. 



the new far more durable adjustable handles are on the left, and the way-to-easily broken ones that came with the mill are on the right. Again, these came from McMaster-Carr. 



Starting dis-assembly of the table for cleaning and ball screw installation. 









Removing the x-axis screw


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## JohnsonFabrication

More mechanical pics. 

Table about ready to be removed. I have already removed the gib at this point. 



Table removed.



Saddle removed. 



In this pic of the saddle, you can see where i am going to have to machine slots and clearance the saddle for the ball screw mounts and nuts. It's a pretty rough casting at this point. 
In addition, my mounting kit for the ball srews is actually for the G0704, the table motor mount and end plates have bolt holes in slightly different locations than the PM25MV does, so i am going to have to slot the motor mount and end plate to adapt to this mill. The G0704 bolt holes and pin locations are higher up on the end of the table than the PM25MV. 



bottom side of the table casting. 



Base all cleaned up, this is it for pics today. :allgood:



Before i install the ball screws, i may lap the y-axis on the saddle to make sure it's smooth all the way to the end, and do the same with the x-axis and the table.


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## JohnsonFabrication

i was just checking Grizzly's website, a whole saddle is only 80 bucks, i may just buy that casting and see if i can adapt it to the PM25MV, and if it works, will save me a ton of extra work milling ball screw slots and tapping holes. If it doesn't work, i can always use it for something else down the road.

Couple reasons this would be awesome if it fits. 

1. I don't have access to a mill or a drill press while this machine is torn down. 
2. Since to get the slots machined on the current saddle, i'll have to pay the local machine shop to do it, if the grizzly saddle fits, will save me a ton of cash there vs just 80 for a saddle with the slots already in it, and, i can put this machine back together long enough to mill the clearance pocket in the grizzly saddle, then swap them out and install the ball screws.
3. This would also enable me to be able to mill the lubrication slots in the saddle for an oiling system with the original machine put back together before the ball screw installation.


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## brav65

Nice work, I did the same tear down to my machine as well. I am not doing a conversion like you, so I did not lap the tables, I did lap the gibs as they looked like a beaver had chewed on them.  my table runs very smoothly now.  It will be interesting to see if the saddle fits.  Post a question to one of the guys that has a G0704 to see if they can give you some rough measurements.  I may be purchasing a full size mill and a lathe from a customer of mine along with tooling for both machines.  If the deal works out I may convert my PM25 to CNC. I am keeping my finger crossed.  Thanks for all the great pictures, I am watching your progress with great interest!


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## JohnsonFabrication

That's a good idea, i put a post on the Grizzly forum asking for dimensions, thanks!


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## JohnsonFabrication

Quick update. I attempted to order a Grizzly saddle today, and Grizzly canceled the order, they won't have any until December 8th at the earliest. Back to square one. 
I did find a blog with a cnc conversion that has screw mounts exactly like the ones in my PM25MV. I may have to do what he did, I would hate that, because i already bought the cnc kit from Automation Technology, and I will only get to use about half of it, and I will have to buy a drill press to do that. (I'm really short on space in the shop, which is why i don't have a drill press already). 

The blog is a Titan TM20V machine, but it's set up exactly the same as the current PM25MV.

http://www.homanndesigns.com/index....ersion-part-2&catid=34:cnc-projects&Itemid=55

So, my options at this point are:

1. Build new ball nut mounts myself, and not use the kit that i already have. 
2. Slot the current saddle so it can use the G0704 nut mounts, then drill and tap for the screws to tighten them down, then make an adapter plate for the Z axis. 
3. Buy the new saddle from Grizzly anyway, hope it fits, and wait until they get them in, in December. 
4. Another option that is a little spendy, but would work the best with the kit components i already have: Buy a base, saddle, table, and column from Grizzly, and mount my head on it. The whole setup costs around $600. 

I think i am going to try option 2. I know some machine shop guys through my work, and they might slot and tap the saddle for me, without breaking my piggy bank. 

On a more positive note, I put power to the control box last night, and almost everything worked the way it is supposed to. The only thing that did not work was the rear cooling fan. It did not come on at all, and the 48v to 24v converter that i bought to run it got super hot. Not sure what is going on there, but i'll have to check it out some more, it was very late when i powered it up, so i didn't spend much time troubleshooting.  It's just a basic 120mm fan anyway, I will probably just replace it with a cheap 120vac fan then wire it up to the 120v circuit and be done with it. The 48v to 24v converter was very inexpensive, so i'm not out much. A new fan will cost more than it did, and these fans are cheap. 

I got all the wires tidied up on one side of the box, and tonight i will hopefully get the other side done. Depends on how i feel, i caught a cold over the weekend, so may not feel like doing any work on it later.


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## brav65

Do a search for Hobby Machinist groups in your town.  I joined one here in Phoenix.  There are about 40 guys and they all help each other out.  We have monthly meeting and one guy will  give a presentation on a particular specialty.  Someone from a group like that may help you out for free especially given the fact that you have  some skill in the CNC area.  Keep up the great work!


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## JohnsonFabrication

Update for this weekend. No pictures today, sorry, but i do have information a plenty :think1:

I decided to go the route of buying the grizzly saddle, column, etc, so that my cnc kit will fit, as i have a considerable amount of money invested in the kit. (yeah, i probably should have made it myself, but i was trying to get this done in a hurry).

While grizzly does not have the saddle in stock, they did have the base and column, which i got in on Thursday. What i can tell you is that the saddle dovetails on the PM25MV are 5mm wider apart than the dovetails on the grizzly, so the grizzly saddle is not going to fit on the PM25MV base. The column dovetails are the same width however. How I am going to make this work is that I am going to build a hybrid machine. The column, saddle, base, and table will be from a G0704, and the head will be from the PM25MV. Once i have the cnc machine up and running, i will make new mounts to fit the PM25MV base, saddle, and table. I am basically now going to build two cnc machines, but for me at this point, will be the quickest way to get my machine up and running the way i want it. Down the road, i will be looking for a used mill head to mount on one of the two base assemblies. 
Even though i have made some mistakes, i'm having fun with the build. :allgood:

Since the new saddle won't be shipped until around December 9th, this will give me the opportunity to make some modifications to the grizzly base and column that i would like to make, and i might even take a stab at scraping them to be flat and parallel, after i practice on some scraps. 

I spent today putting the PM25MV back together, and i will use it as a manual machine until i get the other parts and can complete my build. 

Notes from today on the new base:
The base was covered in the usual shipping goo, and i spent a good deal of time cleaning it off. the bottom had a large and thick amount of over sprayed paint on the bottom, so that had to go before it would even try to sit flat. The outer edges also had a sharp burr on them, which a stone made quick work of removal. Still doesn't seem to sit very flat, so when i get the PM25MV trammed in, I will mill the base down flat. 
The new base dovetails and upper flat were cleaned and also have very sharp burrs on the edges, which were also stoned off. There were also marks that look like rust stains, that would not clean off. I am going to put some Evaporust on it, to make sure it does not rust any further. Rubbing my finger over these stains, i cannot feel them, but i can definitely see them. I could fit the PM25MV saddle to this base if i made a new extra thick gib strip, the angles are the same. The mounting area for the y-axis front plate and for the column mount in the back are also both covered in paint, which has to come off. The bolt hole threads for these are also covered in paint, so they will need tapped out to clean them as well. 
I have the new column also, but i have not taken it out of the box yet, I am planning to do that next weekend. 

Tonight I will be soldering up the wires on the motor connectors, and tomorrow night will be the first test of the completed control box to make sure everything works the way it is supposed to. 

I will have some pics to post later this week, that's all for now :thumbsup2:


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## JohnsonFabrication

wow, after making my previous post about looking for a used mill head, i went to ebay and did a quick search, and found a brand new G0704 mill head complete except for motor control. They wanted a little more than i was willing to pay, so I made an offer, and it was accepted! so now i have two mills! :ups:the head should be here around Thursday. Now i can do mods to both machines and alternate which one is down while i mod it. This is going to be a lot of fun. Granted, all of the second is not here yet, but it will be. I will probably mount this one on a tool box, so i can store future tooling in it.


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## JohnsonFabrication

This weeks' update:

I was having problems with the cnc control box, and i want to say Arturo Duncan at Cnc4pc was a great help, and his taking the time to answer my emails was greatly appreciated, and helped me figure out the problem. 

The problem in a nutshell is that i wired the drivers wrong which was shorting out everything else. So, over the last 2 days, i have been completely rewiring the box, and I installed some terminal strips to make troubleshooting and working on the box much easier. One major modification I did to the box while i had it all apart is to replace the 24vdc fan with a higher cfm 120vac fan. the fan is wired into the 120v circuit and comes on when the on/off switch is turned on. Some of these components put out quite a bit of heat. 





This is the only picture i have to upload this week, as all i have been able to do is work on this box. The ebay mill head came in on Thursday, but I haven't taken it out of the box yet. The next thing I will do is get the mach3 configured, get the motors and connectors wired up. Then I will go back to installing the ball screws and mounts, lastly, will be a motor upgrade for the new mill head, since i need to replace the missing motor controls anyway. By the time i get all that done, the back ordered saddle and mill slide should be here, then the mods begin in earnest.


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## jeff_g1137

Hi 
Great post, have you got any photos of the new head for the mill.

jeff


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## tmarks11

JohnsonFabrication said:


> so now i have two mills... Now i can do mods to both machines and alternate which one is down while i mod it.


Seems to be a common problem... to convert a mill to cnc, you have to have two mills to start with.


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## GA Gyro

tmarks11 said:


> Seems to be a common problem... to convert a mill to cnc, you have to have two mills to start with.



Or regular access to another mill somewhere...

Someday down the road, I may get a 2nd mill... a CNC version of an RF45.
Wish someone made a Taiwanese quality version of a '45... 

But that is a LONG ways away, and there will need to be a financial justification for it...


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## brav65

Good work John.  I am not much of an electronics guy.  I am not sure I would take on a project like yours.  I just picked up a small xp touchscreen computer with a serial port for $125 bucks.  If I decide to CNC my machine it will be perfect to run Mach3 on.  Looks like Mach4 will support USB so it may be a waste, but we will see.






JohnsonFabrication said:


> This weeks' update:
> 
> I was having problems with the cnc control box, and i want to say Arturo Duncan at Cnc4pc was a great help, and his taking the time to answer my emails was greatly appreciated, and helped me figure out the problem.
> 
> The problem in a nutshell is that i wired the drivers wrong which was shorting out everything else. So, over the last 2 days, i have been completely rewiring the box, and I installed some terminal strips to make troubleshooting and working on the box much easier. One major modification I did to the box while i had it all apart is to replace the 24vdc fan with a higher cfm 120vac fan. the fan is wired into the 120v circuit and comes on when the on/off switch is turned on. Some of these components put out quite a bit of heat.
> 
> View attachment 87465
> 
> 
> This is the only picture i have to upload this week, as all i have been able to do is work on this box. The ebay mill head came in on Thursday, but I haven't taken it out of the box yet. The next thing I will do is get the mach3 configured, get the motors and connectors wired up. Then I will go back to installing the ball screws and mounts, lastly, will be a motor upgrade for the new mill head, since i need to replace the missing motor controls anyway. By the time i get all that done, the back ordered saddle and mill slide should be here, then the mods begin in earnest.


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## JohnsonFabrication

no pics yet of the mill head, i haven't taken it out of the shipping box as of yet, will probably do that this weekend. I'm going to be working on the control box software and getting the motors all wired up during the week this week. Digging deep into the nooks and crannies of Mach3 now!. 

I still have one more piece to purchase to get all i need for the second mill, and that is the table. I don't need the end plates for the table as the cnc kit replaces them.


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## tmarks11

GA said:


> Wish someone made a Taiwanese quality version of a '45...



Here you go... Optimum BF46, only $5800 (excluding shipping ... from Germany!) 



http://www.optimum-machines.com/products/milling-machines/bf-46-vario/index.html

Or you can buy a (real) Taiwan Rong Fu RF 45 from Enco... only $3500 (- and additional 15% off this month):




http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=12387323&PMAKA=326-1022

I seem to recall Ray mentioning once about Matt evaluating a Taiwan RF45.... call Matt and ask!


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## john.oliver35

Are all the Enco Rong Fu's made in Taiwan?


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## tmarks11

john.oliver35 said:


> Are all the Enco Rong Fu's made in Taiwan?


They used to be (speaking of the brand name Rong Fu, not of all the square column mills they sell, the enco branded mill is chinese).

Who knows, things change, and $3500 seems cheap for a Taiwan RF45... Chinese ones sell for that price these days. Call enco and ask, they will tell you.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Success! I got motors to spin tonight, the box is now working! woohooooo!!!:victory:

I had problems getting Mach3 to clear the e-stop condition. I contacted Arturo Duncan again, and he suggested I might have a brain enabled that was looking for a pendant stop. Well, i disabled the pendant brain since i am not using a pendant at this time, and voila, the e-stop clears!

I did a quick motor tune and now they work! I want to review the tuning to make sure i have things set for the best operation, but there is light at the end of the tunnel now. It's back to the mechanical side of things now!.


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## JimDawson

Congratulations!!!  It's almost time to make chips.


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## JohnsonFabrication

JimDawson said:


> Congratulations!!!  It's almost time to make chips.



Almost, 2 critical parts i need are on back order until Mid-December, but I can get everything else done in the meantime.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Opened the box on the extra mill head today, and to my surprise, i got a bonus, the 3 bolt mod is already done to it, so more work i don't have to do!  The asssumption on the part of the ebay seller that the head was new was incorrect, as a new head would not have the 3-bolt mod done to it. But, it is still a good deal just the same, new, the complete head is over $1200. 







This may be an older model head, as the label says it has a 750w motor, so, an 1100w motor upgrade with a belt drive is in order for this machine. Now is the time to do it before it gets put on the new column.
I'm going to get some Precision Matthews colors of paint tomorrow and mask the new parts up for painting. I want everything to match:makingdecision: the wife, she likes the green color, but I like blue, so blue it will be :rubbinghands:


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## wrmiller

What 1100w motor are you upgrading to? Agree with the color choice too. I've gotten to where I like the blue on my PM25.


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## brav65

Any progress?  I hope all is going well and I hpe you have a good Thanksgiving!


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## compsurge

JohnsonFabrication said:


> Opened the box on the extra mill head today, and to my surprise, i got a bonus, the 3 bolt mod is already done to it, so more work i don't have to do!  The asssumption on the part of the ebay seller that the head was new was incorrect, as a new head would not have the 3-bolt mod done to it. But, it is still a good deal just the same, new, the complete head is over $1200.
> 
> View attachment 87799
> 
> 
> View attachment 87800
> 
> 
> This may be an older model head, as the label says it has a 750w motor, so, an 1100w motor upgrade with a belt drive is in order for this machine. Now is the time to do it before it gets put on the new column.
> I'm going to get some Precision Matthews colors of paint tomorrow and mask the new parts up for painting. I want everything to match:makingdecision: the wife, she likes the green color, but I like blue, so blue it will be :rubbinghands:



I believe I read (maybe Hoss?) on one of the other forums that the newer G0704s have the 3 bolt mod from the factory.

Your conversion is looking good!


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## JohnsonFabrication

Thanksgiving update. 

Unpacked and cleaned the column today. Box was loaded with styrofoam peanuts, ugghhhh. The dovetails are covered in paint overspray. Gonna have to get that cleaned off. 








Next, i unpacked the z-slide that had come in a few days ago, more peanuts, ugggghhh, and more dovetail overspray. 







putting things together for a trial fit.


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## JohnsonFabrication

The table was also unpacked, and lots more of those awful *@#$@ peanuts. 





Now for another setback, started fitting the CNC end plates to the new table, and discovered that the bolt holes and the dowel pin holes have not been drilled at all. Guess this will give me an opportunity to use the 90 degree feature on the PM25MV.


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## GA Gyro

You have a lot of patience... maybe more than I do.

Good looking project... I am thoroughly enjoying watching it go together!


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## JohnsonFabrication

Today, the y-axis ball screw and motor were installed. in the ball screw kit, they give you a small chunk of ball screw to put in the nut because you have to take the nut off to get the screw in the base casting. I would like to tell you right now, a small piece of pipe would have worked better. If you don't have it just right, the screw won't go back in and then the teflon seals pop out, along with a few balls. Getting the balls back in wasn't all that hard, but it took me 4 attempts to get the nut back on the ball screw. I would suggest to those doing it in the future, practice putting that nut back on before putting the screw in the casting, you will be glad you did. 

First picture, I went with Ruland oldham couplings. These are the same couplings that McMaster-Carr sells. I got them for less than half of what McMaster-Carr charges from the local bearing/power transmission supply company. You can do the same, the Ruland part numbers are: 

Nema 23 motor setup
OST21-6-A  3/8in bore, 2 each
OD21/33-AT acetal insert, 1 each

Nema 34 motor setup
OST21-8-A 1/2in bore, 1 each
OST21-6-A 3/8in bore, 1 each
OD21/33-AT acetal insert, 1 each




motor and screw installed


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## brav65

Nice work John.  It can be maddening putting some assemblies back together.


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## JohnsonFabrication

It's Mark, my last name is Johnson, heh ), but yeah, took me a while to get the ball nut back on.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Well, today i called Grizzly to check on the saddle back order. Sadly, they have pushed back the order until December 30th. It's going to be at least a month before i can finish now. While I had them on the phone, I decided to ask them why the new table did not have the dowel and bolt holes in the end of the table. I am not surprised by the answer, as the PM25MV exhibits the same thing. The answer is, they hand fit and drill the dowel and bolt holes on each end plate, so no two are the same or in the same locations. On my particular PM25MV, when i disassembled it for cleaning, it was very noticeable that some of the dowels were in holes that were drilled at a not so straight angle, etc.  Since my new table does not have the holes, I am going to do my best to make sure they are all drilled straight and true. 

This explains a couple things to me, like why the G0704 uses a slot system to capture the x and y screw nuts, because the screw heights above the saddle probably vary considerably from machine to machine, and they need the ability to compensate for that. 

While I am waiting for the saddle, i'm going to move forward as time allows on fitting the table ball screw plates, and i will finish up on the Z axis. Might even get a new motor for it.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Not much of an update this week, had to work, but i did work on some software problems. Instead of fixing Partmaster 13, Dolphin sent me a download link for a version of Partmaster 12. I paid for version 13, not 12, I am probably out the money I paid for this clunker software despite my requests for a refund, so I am going to move on. I bought the Autodesk Fusion 360 offer, for the cloud version subscription of Fusion 360 Ultimate. I've used Autodesk products for years and years at work, I should have just gone to them to start with, but was trying to save a few bucks, and it ended up costing me in the long term. Rant over. 

The new saddle is still on back order, so my next step is drilling and tapping the bolt holes in the end of the table. I have begun purchasing tooling. I got the tormach manual starter kit from Little Machine Shop for the basic tooling set, and got some basic end mills, metric transfer punches, and metric drill bits ( I already have drill bits in sae from a previous mill that i had). Since I am building a cnc machine, i'm going to stick with the tormach tooling system. 

I have been looking at various automatic tool changer systems that people have built, and i purchased plans from Hoss Machine, but i am intrigued by the possibility of a chain system, instead of a disk, for more flexibility and expandability. I'll have to give this some thought.


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## brav65

JohnsonFabrication said:


> It's Mark, my last name is Johnson, heh ), but yeah, took me a while to get the ball nut back on.



Sorry Mark!


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## mrbarre1

I am brand new to this forum . My first post. I purchased a PM25-MV for my technology students in September. We have not set it up yet because we are waiting on some electrical work to be done. The plan is to convert to CNC and this thread has been very helpful. Looking forward to seeing how things progress to the finished product!!!


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## GA Gyro

mrbarre1 said:


> I am brand new to this forum . My first post. I purchased a PM25-MV for my technology students in September. We have not set it up yet because we are waiting on some electrical work to be done. The plan is to convert to CNC and this thread has been very helpful. Looking forward to seeing how things progress to the finished product!!!



Welcome to the forum!!!
And Merry Christmas... or whatever you choose to celebrate.

IMO good choice of machinery... you will find lots of help here.

BTW: WE LOVE build threads... and the more pics the better...


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## compsurge

Hopefully you've cleaned and oiled and greased it by now. That's a great mill to learn on. It's light enough to move around and it begs to be a CNC convert


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## JohnsonFabrication

Bad news, Grizzly has pushed the saddle order back to the middle of February now. Unreal they don't stock enough parts on hand to service the machines they sell, but that seems to be the case with a lot of industries these days, with the proliferation of "Just In Time" inventory, that never seems to be just in time. Probably won't be much for updates until i get the saddle, i'm kinda stuck without it.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Got a quick update, took advantage of some after holiday sales and got me a box to mount my small machines on and a 12 x 18 surface plate. 
	

		
			
		

		
	





Here's my temporary laptop set up, hooked to my garage flat screen. 




In these photos, you can see the "new" z-axis gib that i got from Grizzly, I guess they want you to trim it to fit yourself. You can see in the second picture how rough it is, it almost looks like a bastard file. I'm going to make a new one out of brass, this is just way to rough to use. 





and here's the surface plate.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Got some massive bad news today, my parts order has now been pushed back to the middle of April, guess i will buy a big chunk of metal and try to make a saddle myself. if nothing else, will give me practice with hand scraping. :angry:


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## JohnsonFabrication

they fibbed! The saddle shipped yesterday, and should be here this afternoon, oh happy day!!!!


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## brav65

JohnsonFabrication said:


> they fibbed! The saddle shipped yesterday, and should be here this afternoon, oh happy day!!!!




Well now we all expect to see a lot of pictures of your progress!  :thumbzup3:


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## GA Gyro

JohnsonFabrication said:


> they fibbed! The saddle shipped yesterday, and should be here this afternoon, oh happy day!!!!



This makes Matt look better; even when the 'slow boat from China (or in my case, Taiwan)' gets lost... :rofl:

Glad your part is coming... making that part would have been some SERIOUS chips.


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## compsurge

Well now this thread is a letdown. I was expecting to see the best shop-made mini mill saddle ever. :jester:


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## JohnsonFabrication

yeah, I was pricing out what a chunk of steel that size would cost, seems to be around 300 bucks for one big enough to make the saddle out of, so let's see, 80 dollars for the saddle, vs 300, yeah, i'll go with the 80 dollar one. With what I've got from the other parts, I'm probably going to have to do some scraping anyway, I'm pretty sure it's in rough condition like the other new parts.


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## compsurge

It's amazing that's _all _it costs. Cast, machined, painted, and shipped halfway around the world for $80.


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## ed0849

Wow nice thread, your doing a great job. Can't wait to see it completed.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Update: Been working a lot of hours, not as much time as i would like to work on the machine, but i do have some new information, and should have some new pictures to post later this coming week. 

1st. Been looking at motor options, vs the stock motor. The PM25MV i am probably going to leave alone for now, and change the motor on the cnc machine head. What I have been looking at: At first, i thought i would go with the Sangmutan motor that Keling/Automation Technologies sells. Then i saw the multiple threads of problems with the controllers of those motors. The threads say they have been updated but there still seems to be a few nagging problems with them here and there. Then I looked at a three phase motor, this has more promise, but the 56C of a nema motor is quite large for the mill head. I started looking at 3 phase metric motors, it appears that the Sangmutan motor has the bolt pattern of an IEC D80C metric motor. this is good news. A D80C motor is a bit smaller than a 56C for the same horsepower. I ordered a 1.1kw (1.5hp) Leeson motor, model number 192067.30, this motor spins at 3600 rpm, and with a vfd should give a very nice rpm range for the mill. at the face mount flange, the Leeson motor is only 1 inch diameter bigger on the outer edge of the flange than the Sangmutan motor. The motor mount plate i already have is made for the sangmutan. 
2nd. The bad news. The D80C motor has a shaft of 19mm diameter with a 5mm key. The sangmutan motor has a 14mm shaft with a 4mm key. I am going to have to bore out the motor pulley and broach a larger keyway. Also, the increased motor diameter may overhang the motor mount bolt slots, so i may have to countersink them for flathead screws to clear the motor flange, i hope not, but we will see. 
3rd. Picking a vfd. I am familiar with vfd's, i had one on a bridgeport i used to have (it was a teco unit). I am thinking about getting a Leeson nema 4x enclosed drive and mounting it directly to the mill head, where the electrical box originally was. the problem is the nema 4x units are quite a bit more expensive than the open frame ones. The trade off is that the open one should be in a pretty large enclosure, which i do not want to mount on the mill head (10 x 12 x 8 box). Another option is the Hitachi WSJ200 drive. While this is not nema 4x, there are wiring diagrams available so i can hook it up to my C32 breakout board with no problems. Not so with the nema 4x drives. Tough choices, and all somewhat expensive. I am still undecided at this point.


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## JohnsonFabrication

today i clearanced the saddle for the ball screw nut. I used a 2-flute 1-1/2in ball end mill with a 1-1/4in end mill holder. almost too big for the PM25, had to take lots of small cuts.




I then test fit the saddle, base, table, and ball screws together. I am going to have to widen the slot in the table slightly, but I am happy, today i made some real progress.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Got the 3d printer fired up today. printed out a motor cover for my 60mm stepper motor. Used the model that is available on http://www.g0704.com. I was going to post some photos and the 3d model files for the custom electrical enclosure i designed for the WJ200-015SF vfd, but it looks like i can't attach files directly anymore, boooo!. I don't want to sign up on a hosting site so i guess there will be no more photos unless i'm doing something wrong, but i will keep you guys posted on progress.

The motor I am going to use is a Leeson 192067.30  1.1kw 3600 rpm D80C frame 3-phase motor. This is a 1-1/2 hp motor, and has the same bolt pattern as the Sangmutan BLDC motor. This motor is going to add 34lbs to the head.


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## brav65

Mark, 

Use the upload file button next to the post reply button and you can choose a file from you computer/phone/file.


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## JohnsonFabrication

thanks, Brooks, just not my day, lol


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## brav65

No sweat. Looks like you are collecting a nice collection of doodads for your project. I almost have my lathe up and running, a few more upgrades to complet and I will be set to start on some projects.


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## JohnsonFabrication

i'm still working on the 3d model for the gibs, it's not been easy, they are in such bad shape from the factory, i can't trust the angles on them to be right. i'm having to measure the gap and angle of the dovetails to make this, been a slow process. I am not sure the dovetails have been cut at the right angle either, from my research, they should be 55 degrees, but the angles ont he gibs measure 60 degrees, and the dovetails measure 57, not good.


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## brav65

Having traveled in China I can tell you that +\- 3 degrees is not bad when you consider what they are working with in China. I have considerably more tooling, and machinery in my little shop than I saw people working with in China.  They are working with facilities and tooling that would have been out of date here in the 40's.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Here are the 3d models for the custom enclosure for a Hitachi WJ200-015SF vfd. You will need to make 4 of the standoffs for mounting. there is a cutout for an 80mm fan in the bottom, and an 80mm honeycomb exhaust grill in the back panel for cooling. The enclosure and front panel have 5mm thick plastic walls, and the back panel is 10mm thick. I designed it to use socket head screws for attaching the panels, and flat head screws to attach the standoffs. the standoffs have a counterbored slot for attaching to your mill head/toolbox/etc, the slot is for a small amount of misalignment from drilling.


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## JohnsonFabrication

been playing with the 3d printer while waiting on parts for the mill, made 12 of these leather stranding tools.


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## brav65

Hey Mark!  How goes the battle?  Have you made any progress?  I am taking the plunge and building a CNC Router with my son.  We are wiring up the control box and waiting for parts to start on the table and gantry.


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## JohnsonFabrication

It has been slow going, been running the 3d printer to make a little cash to continue with the cnc project. One thing I can tell you all, if you want to convert to a 3-phase motor, but keep the weight down, I suggest going with a metric motor instead of a nema motor. Leeson has a nice one that has a D80C frame, which has the same bolt pattern as the 1.1kw sangmutan motor. A nema motor will add 40 plus pounds to the head, but this motor is only 34 pounds. Well within the capabilities of the nema 34 970oz stepper, or even the 570 oz nema 23 stepper. It has 1.1kw (1.5hp) of power and is physically smaller than the nema, looks nicer too . I modified the motor plate for my belt drive kit (it had threaded holes, I just drilled them out for M6 bolts and counterbored it for the socket head screws, and that was all there was to the mechanical mounting. The only other difference is you will need to bore your motor pulley to 19mm and put a keyway in it. the originals are 14mm and they will not fit as is.


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## Former Member - WoodNDust

JohnsonFabrication said:


> It has been slow going, been running the 3d printer to make a little cash to continue with the cnc project. One thing I can tell you all, if you want to convert to a 3-phase motor, but keep the weight down, I suggest going with a metric motor instead of a nema motor. Leeson has a nice one that has a D80C frame, which has the same bolt pattern as the 1.1kw sangmutan motor. A nema motor will add 40 plus pounds to the head, but this motor is only 34 pounds. Well within the capabilities of the nema 34 970oz stepper, or even the 570 oz nema 23 stepper. It has 1.1kw (1.5hp) of power and is physically smaller than the nema, looks nicer too . I modified the motor plate for my belt drive kit (it had threaded holes, I just drilled them out for M6 bolts and counterbored it for the socket head screws, and that was all there was to the mechanical mounting. The only other difference is you will need to bore your motor pulley to 19mm and put a keyway in it. the originals are 14mm and they will not fit as is.



Mark, what's the status of this project?


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## JohnsonFabrication

Did a lot of work on the machine today. Got the head tore down to install the new motor and belt drive, and installed the z-axis screw. ran into a couple snags, but got a lot done today.
First snag, was the 34 nema motor would not go in all the way, had to modify the oldham disc to allow the 1/2 inch shaft to go in all the way. Installed the head after installing the z-axis ball screw. 
Started stripping down the head for the new motor and belt drive kit. If anyone needs a set of G0704 gears and an original motor, i have them available, not going to reuse them. 
Got the head all stripped down, and started prepping the new metric motor. 
Removed the feet on the motor, as they will be in the way.


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## JohnsonFabrication

I will be experimenting with making new gibs this weekend, i finally got a 3d model of them done that i think will work, just got to print them out with the tribo filament now. Been on hold, my dad restores antique tricycles and he asked me to make a set of pedals for him, took me a while to get the 3d model of them done, lots of small detail on them that took forever, was a 15 hour print for one set when I got them done.


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## JohnsonFabrication

Got the metric motor on, and the belt drive kit done today, so this is what it looks like with a metric 1100kw 3-phase motor. The belt drive kit is the Benchtop Precision Kit, but it had to be modified to work with this motor, the mods were minor, ie, counterbore for the socket head bolts on the motor plate, and boring out the motor pulley, as i discussed in a previous post. Now I have to get it all wired up with the home switches, motor cables, and the vfd.


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## starion007

I was doing some searching on G0704 CNC conversions and found your thread very interesting. I'm wondering how you ended up on this project. I'm asking because I recently purchased a G0704 kit and was thinking what would it take to adapt it to the PM machine because I like the column mounting to the base on the PM verses the G0704, but I couldn't pass up the price on the kit on eBay. I have not ordered a machine yet, Ill wait till the kit shows up just in case its a bust.
Thanks, Mark


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## compsurge

starion007 said:


> I was doing some searching on G0704 CNC conversions and found your thread very interesting. I'm wondering how you ended up on this project. I'm asking because I recently purchased a G0704 kit and was thinking what would it take to adapt it to the PM machine because I like the column mounting to the base on the PM verses the G0704, but I couldn't pass up the price on the kit on eBay. I have not ordered a machine yet, Ill wait till the kit shows up just in case its a bust.
> Thanks, Mark



If you are insistent on using the CNC kit (BD Tools?), get the G0704. The OP basically built a G0704 from parts since the PM-25 would not accept the CNC kit. If you like the design of the PM-25, make your own kit for it. From my experience it is not that difficult - just a lot of measuring and testing. We can help you out along the way!


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## starion007

Thanks for the reply Tim. I'll be purchasing the G0704 as soon as the kit comes in. I just wondered how he made out in the end. I bought the kit form eBay seller cncconversionkit at a  $400 discount I figured it was worth a shot. 
Mark


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## compsurge

Very good! At the end of the day the cost of the G0704 versus the PM-25 will allow you do do some upgrades. My PM-30 is more of a 1.3x scale of the PM-25 since the column is mounted much in the same way, but the mounts for all of the ballnuts are different.

Don't be afraid to take the machine apart and put it back together again several times. I have gotten to the point that a machine teardown and rebuild is a matter of minutes, not hours .

If your kit doesn't come with electronics, let us know what you're thinking. I have an old PC controlling a Leadshine MX3660. You can use a Beaglebone Black (small single board computer) with Machinekit (LinuxCNC) and completely scrap the need for a separate PC. If this had been around a few years ago, it would be my first choice.

Be sure to make a thread and post your progress and ask questions if you get stuck!


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## starion007

Here are the specks on the electronics that are coming with the kit, as well as the mechanical parts. 
When I get everything in I'll start a thread. Electronics are not my strong suite so I'm sure I will have questions!

3 x Digital Driver CCK5560 for  each axis 32 bit 5.7A
3 x Stepper motor nema 23 420oz 
1 x 6 axis Bidirectional Breakout Board C10
1 x Power supply 600W 48V 12.5A 3 x Ball screw 16mm pitch 5mm (C7)

Thanks for the encourgment!
Mark


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## Skippyman

JohnsonFabrication said:


> Got the mobile base yesterday, the cnc kit came in today, and the mill will be here between noon and 3 tomorrow, will post some pics this weekend, been a good week so far.



I don't see any mention of exactly what you got for a CNC Kit.  Can you elaborate please?
Thanks, Skip


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