# Landmark's PM-30MV CNC Conversion



## Landmark (Jan 30, 2019)

I pulled the trigger on a new PM-30MV mill for my CNC conversion. There are lost of decisions left but I'm going with the Masso Controller and ClearPath motors. Please watch this thread for updates.


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## Firstgear (Jan 30, 2019)

We need photos and lots of details!


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## Firstgear (Jan 30, 2019)

How did you decide to pick that machine instead of the others or the top of the line machine?


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## Landmark (Feb 1, 2019)

Firstgear said:


> We need photos and lots of details!


Of course. I am still awaiting delivery.


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## Landmark (Feb 1, 2019)

Firstgear said:


> How did you decide to pick that machine instead of the others or the top of the line machine?


Good question. I already have a good size bench top mill, the Grizzly G0762. My original plan was to get a smaller mill like the G0704 that a lot of people get for conversion. But the more I looked at the different options the more I thought it would be too small and lightweight. I looked at a lot of other mills and went with the PM-30MV because it was already belt drive so I wouldn't have to do that conversion. It was also heavier and supposedly it has better castings and finish than the other mills in it's class. I didn't want to pay so much for the base mill so a bigger more expensive mill wasn't really an option.


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## Firstgear (Feb 1, 2019)

Do you have a 3D modeling program?  Have you ever used one?  What about converting from design to a machine driven program?  I am asking as I have none of the above or experience.


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## 7milesup (Feb 1, 2019)

Firstgear said:


> Do you have a 3D modeling program?  Have you ever used one?  What about converting from design to a machine driven program?  I am asking as I have none of the above or experience.



I could chime in here a little bit.  I, and many others, use Fusion 360 by Autodesk, the same folks that put out AutoCad.  Fusion has a huge following and there are a ton of help videos by Autodesk themselves along with the likes of Lars Christensen and a few others that put out great how-to's.  I have never paid for Fusion 360 and it is supposed to be free for anyone that is utilizing it for hobby use or even commercial as long as you stay below $100k a year.  
The other option is Solidworks which is also available for "free" for hobbyist and educational use through the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA).  For the price of their membership, which is something like $45 or $50 you can download what is essentially a full fledged version of Solidworks.
With all that being said, Fusion has toolpath built into it, whereas Solidworks it is an add on.  The program for tool paths used to be called HSM and AutoDesk bought them out and then baked the HSM works into Fusion 360.  It is very slick and seamless.


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## Landmark (Feb 1, 2019)

Firstgear said:


> Do you have a 3D modeling program?  Have you ever used one?  What about converting from design to a machine driven program?  I am asking as I have none of the above or experience.


I use to do a lot of woodworking and used Sketchup for 3D modeling my projects. When I got a 3D printer I continued to use it to produce .stl files printing the models. 

Now I am learning Fusion 360 which has a CAM function for creating tool paths for the CNC machine.


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## Paul Bird (Feb 1, 2019)

like you, I ordered a PM-30 three days ago to do the same. Clearpath servos, Arizona99 cnc hardware kit, but I'm going with a Centroid Acorn controller and a 24inch touch screen. Should be fun but I have lots to learn.

BTW, What Clearpath models are you going with?


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## 7milesup (Feb 2, 2019)

I wouldn't use sketchup for anything machining.


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## Landmark (Feb 2, 2019)

Paul Bird said:


> like you, I ordered a PM-30 three days ago to do the same. Clearpath servos, Arizona99 cnc hardware kit, but I'm going with a Centroid Acorn controller and a 24inch touch screen. Should be fun but I have lots to learn.
> 
> BTW, What Clearpath models are you going with?


That's great!! Let's keep in touch as the builds progress. II'm not sure what model CP to use. What are you looking at? Is the Arizona99 kit available yet? I thought he was still working on it. I looked at the Centroid a long time ago and from what I remembered it was really expensive. Now I see they have a entry level system that is affordable. It still requires a PC though. 

I'm still new at all this so I have a lot to learn too.

Mark


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## Landmark (Feb 2, 2019)

7milesup said:


> I wouldn't use sketchup for anything machining.


Yeah, I think Fusion360 is the way to go. Autodesk is putting a lot into it.


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## Paul Bird (Feb 2, 2019)

Landmark said:


> That's great!! Let's keep in touch as the builds progress. II'm not sure what model CP to use. What are you looking at? Is the Arizona99 kit available yet? I thought he was still working on it. I looked at the Centroid a long time ago and from what I remembered it was really expensive. Now I see they have a entry level system that is affordable. It still requires a PC though.
> 
> I'm still new at all this so I have a lot to learn too.
> 
> Mark



I am "looking at," but not completely settled on, the 3432ELS - 1,396 oz/in for the Z and 3421ELS 1,094 oz/in for the X&Y. All of these are "enhanced" but I'm still researching this to see if this is advantageous or not. I also think that these are bigger than necessary but I am not seeing a lot of downside to overkill. And the lower torque nema 34 models are higher rpm which I don't need on a mill.

David (Arizona99) is currently finishing the first few "kits" and told me a couple weeks. David has been super helpful and awesome to communicate with me - an obvious first timer. I have a deposit i on this kit so I hope to have it by the end of the month.

And I too am using Fusion 360 which I REALLY like for design and have been using a lot over the last year with a 3d printer. Hope I like it as much for CAM. And I am really excited about the Centroid Acorn as an alternative to Mach.

Paul


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## phazertwo (Feb 3, 2019)

Sub'ed and excited to see how this goes.

I looked into Masso when I started looking for a new controller for my 940cnc, but ultimately ended up with the Centroid Acorn.  I really really like it, it is very easy to setup and use, and they are an industry known name.  That being said, the Masso looks like a killer little unit and I'd really like to see one in action.  There aren't any videos I can find on YouTube of someone really using the controller.  There are a few of people running really conservative... I wanna see what happens when you crank it up to 70+IPM in an adaptive tool path.

Also, here is a link to Shooter123456's thread.  Dude has skills, no doubt.  He is building a machine very similar to what you are talking about (Clearpath servos and all).








						New PM-25MV Mill
					

After getting some Christmas money and making a few extra bucks with a machining job, I decided to get a new milling machine.  I currently have a Harbor Freight X2 that I have had for a little over 2 years now.  I will be converting the PM-25 to CNC immediately.  I intend for this thread to be...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




PZ


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## Landmark (Feb 3, 2019)

Paul Bird said:


> I am "looking at," but not completely settled on, the 3432ELS - 1,396 oz/in for the Z and 3421ELS 1,094 oz/in for the X&Y. All of these are "enhanced" but I'm still researching this to see if this is advantageous or not. I also think that these are bigger than necessary but I am not seeing a lot of downside to overkill. And the lower torque nema 34 models are higher rpm which I don't need on a mill.
> 
> David (Arizona99) is currently finishing the first few "kits" and told me a couple weeks. David has been super helpful and awesome to communicate with me - an obvious first timer. I have a deposit i on this kit so I hope to have it by the end of the month.
> 
> ...


I had decided to machine the ball screw and bearing mounts myself. Now I am seconding guessing that decision.


phazertwo said:


> Sub'ed and excited to see how this goes.
> 
> I looked into Masso when I started looking for a new controller for my 940cnc, but ultimately ended up with the Centroid Acorn.  I really really like it, it is very easy to setup and use, and they are an industry known name.  That being said, the Masso looks like a killer little unit and I'd really like to see one in action.  There aren't any videos I can find on YouTube of someone really using the controller.  There are a few of people running really conservative... I wanna see what happens when you crank it up to 70+IPM in an adaptive tool path.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link. I have seen his name on some threads but haven't looked at his build because it was for a different build. I am going to check it out because you can always learn something from any build. I've been reading forums, instagram, and watching youtube for a long time and I want to start giving back. So I plan to post as much as I can before, during, and after the build. 

I placed my order for the PM-30MV before noon on the 29th and still haven't received any tracking information. Hopefully it will ship early next week.

Mark


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## Landmark (Feb 5, 2019)

Update: I received an email today notifying me that my mill will ship on Friday 2/8. I ordered it on 1/29 but it took a little longer to ship because they were still clearing the back orders from last year.


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## Paul Bird (Feb 5, 2019)

Landmark said:


> Update: I received an email today notifying me that my mill will ship on Friday 2/8. I ordered it on 1/29 but it took a little longer to ship because they were still clearing the back orders from last year.


Great! I ordered mine same day you did so I hope to have mine about the same time. BTW, Today I ordered the three Clearpath steppers I mentioned above along with two of the bigger power supplies. I also ordered a bunch or Tormach TTS tooling as I will be going down the power drawbar/automatic tool changer route later this year. Just need to get the CNC kit from David and figure out what vise(s) to get.


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## Landmark (Feb 5, 2019)

Paul Bird said:


> Great! I ordered mine same day you did so I hope to have mine about the same time. BTW, Today I ordered the three Clearpath steppers I mentioned above along with two of the bigger power supplies. I also ordered a bunch or Tormach TTS tooling as I will be going down the power drawbar/automatic tool changer route later this year. Just need to get the CNC kit from David and figure out what vise(s) to get.


It looks like our mills are going to be more alike now. I backed out of the Masso and ordered the Acorn. In talking with a friend of mine that has a Masso on his mill said they were still developing backlash compensation and probing wizards. I got worried what else might be missing or not working correctly.

What are you going to use for the PC / monitor?

I've been buying TTS tooling for my G0762 that I will be able to share with the PM30. A PDB is a top priority for me. Have you seen CNC4XR7 on YouTube? He has a Tormach style PDB for the PM-727M. 

I'm really interested to see what you think about the ClearPaths.


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## Paul Bird (Feb 6, 2019)

Landmark said:


> It looks like our mills are going to be more alike now. I backed out of the Masso and ordered the Acorn. In talking with a friend of mine that has a Masso on his mill said they were still developing backlash compensation and probing wizards. I got worried what else might be missing or not working correctly.
> 
> What are you going to use for the PC / monitor?



I bought a Dell touchscreen all-in-one pc last week. It is an i5 processor with 12gb of ram. It was on sale for one day at Staples for $600 so I snagged it. It's back to $800 now.  I have it setup and communicating with the Acorn perfectly with zero issues - so far. The 24" touch screen seems really good and I am hopeful that it will be perfect for this application. I really like the 24" size for my big fingers and progressively worse vision. BTW, I am going to order the Acorn wireless controller today. 



> I've been buying TTS tooling for my G0762 that I will be able to share with the PM30. A PDB is a top priority for me. Have you seen CNC4XR7 on YouTube? He has a Tormach style PDB for the PM-727M.
> 
> I'm really interested to see what you think about the ClearPaths.



Yes, I have seen CNC4XR7's videos (pretty much all of them). He does a good job with his setup. I am also getting lots of inspiration from cruddCNC on youtube. I have reached out to the China supplier (referenced in his version 2 video) for the air cylinders. I think they are on their new year break so I'll wait to hear back from them. Either way, I'm doing some version of this once I have the servos, electronics, tooling, etc. figured out. I also want more spindle rpm which will be a future project.

The Fogbuster kit I got from Tormach and the two IPC-5 Clearpath power supplies are due in today. Tonight I start putting together my electronics enclosure. My hope is to have this done and a full bench test complete the day the servos arrive. I know that limit/home switches and spindle control will take some time to sort out but that is all that should be needed after the mill is assembled.

Paul


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## Landmark (Feb 9, 2019)

Paul Bird said:


> I bought a Dell touchscreen all-in-one pc last week. It is an i5 processor with 12gb of ram. It was on sale for one day at Staples for $600 so I snagged it. It's back to $800 now.  I have it setup and communicating with the Acorn perfectly with zero issues - so far. The 24" touch screen seems really good and I am hopeful that it will be perfect for this application. I really like the 24" size for my big fingers and progressively worse vision. BTW, I am going to order the Acorn wireless controller today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My mill shipped on Thursday and arrived at the local terminal this afternoon. I assume I will be able to pick it up on Monday.


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## phazertwo (Feb 9, 2019)

FYI guys, I have been buying referb. computers for Acorn builds.  You can usually get one for less than $100 that will work great.

Like this:








						Refurbished: HP Pro 6300 SFF  i5-3470 3.20GHz 4GB 128GB SSD Win 10 Pro 1 Yr Wty - Newegg.com
					

Buy Refurbished: HP Pro 6300 SFF  i5-3470 3.20GHz 4GB 128GB SSD Win 10 Pro 1 Yr Wty with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				




Add a SSD like this and you are off to the races (works just fine with the HD it comes with):


			https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076XMH2JT/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
		


I've been running refurbished HP 6300 pro and 8300 elite systems when ever I need a cheap computer.  They're built well above the quality of the cheapo stuff you get from Wallmart and the like, and cheaper.

PZ


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## Landmark (Feb 11, 2019)

phazertwo said:


> FYI guys, I have been buying referb. computers for Acorn builds.  You can usually get one for less than $100 that will work great.
> 
> Like this:
> 
> ...


Thanks PZ,

Do you know what Dell model Centroid for their all-in-one PC? I would like to find one referd. Otherwise do you have a touch screen monitor recommendation?

Mark


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## phazertwo (Feb 11, 2019)

I do not know the exact model number but I can make a decent guess.

Here is an all in one touch screen dell that meets all the requirements  for CNC12 (scores 1997 on the single thread bench mark), and is very similar to Centroids offering:








						Refurbished: DELL All-in-One Computer OptiPlex 9020 Intel Core i5 4th Gen 4570S (2.90GHz) 8GB DDR3 500GB HDD 23.8" Touchscreen Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit - Newegg.com
					

Buy Refurbished: DELL All-in-One Computer OptiPlex 9020 Intel Core i5 4th Gen 4570S (2.90GHz) 8GB DDR3 500GB HDD 23.8" Touchscreen Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				




-Not bad for $400
-It includes a 23.8" touch screen monitor, 8gb of ram vs the Centroid option that is only a 19" and 4bg of ram
-It does not have an SSD, but that could be purchased separately
-I'm not sure, but I'm guessing this is a home user level PC, where as what I posted above is a business class PC (business class _should_ be more reliable)

Honestly that looks like a good machine to run CNC12.  Considering that you get a touch screen and comp all in one shot.  HOWEVER, I don't like having the computer built into the screen... maybe it's from my industrial maintenance days, but separating out components makes trouble shooting easier, and it also makes replacing the broken stuff cheaper.  I'm also not a fan of having the computer out of a cabinet.  This will need to be mounted near the machine, and when chips are flying the seem to go everywhere you don't want them, including into the computer running the machine.  I'd prefer to only have the monitor/keyboard/mouse out by the machine... just my two cents.

This is the monitor I've been looking at:








						Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more - Newegg.com
					

Newegg.com offers the best prices on computer products, laptop computers, LED LCD TVs, digital cameras, electronics, unlocked phones, office supplies, and more with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Newegg shopping upgraded ™




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With the all in one vs the monitor/PC combo you're pretty close in price...  I can't bring myself to pull the trigger on the monitor because my setup has other more pressing issues that I need to spend money on... But some day I will have a touch screen.  It would certainly make CNC12 easier to use.

PZ


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## Landmark (Feb 12, 2019)

phazertwo said:


> I do not know the exact model number but I can make a decent guess.
> 
> Here is an all in one touch screen dell that meets all the requirements  for CNC12 (scores 1997 on the single thread bench mark), and is very similar to Centroids offering:
> 
> ...


Looks like 2 really good options. I like the all-in-one because there is a little less cabling. I see your point about having separate components.  A machine shop isn't the most computer friendly environment. I looked through my junk yard (home office) yesterday and found a referb Dell Inspiron 3668 that I forgot I had purchased for a CNC plasma table I was building. I got side tracked and never finished the table.  It has a Intel Core i3-7100 @ 3.90GHz with a score of 2229. It has 8GB memory but lacks a SSD. Looks like the decision has been made for me. Separate monitor it is. 

Thanks for your help!

Mark

BTW: Hopefully I will be able to pickup my mill today. SAIA seems to have tracking issues.


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## Landmark (Feb 12, 2019)

SAIA online tracking showed that the mill arrived at my local terminal on Saturday evening. I called Monday morning excited to go pickup my new toy. After some delay the customer service rep said that the mill was in Dallas and would be arriving in Houston on Tuesday. I strongly protested their tracking applet so proudly displayed on their front page said the mill was in fact in Houston and had never been to Dallas. That's when I learned that they use a different tracking system and the online information was wrong. It was supposed to be raining all day so I wasn't really all that upset. 

I called bright and early this morning and found out that it did make the trip to Houston and was being unloaded. The rep verified verified my phone number and they would call when it was ready for pickup. I thought, "yeah right!". I've heard that many times from service businesses and was left sitting by the phone all day without a call. So I got breakfast and headed for the terminal. To my surprise I got a call alone the way saying my shipment was ready for pickup. 

Sorry for the sad story. Now for the pictures everyone is waiting for.

Loaded and ready to roll






Yup, there is a mill in there











\





Just hanging out. That Harbor Freight hoist I installed gets'er done


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## phazertwo (Feb 12, 2019)

Awesome!  Looking forward to seeing it get some CNC!

PZ


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## Landmark (Feb 23, 2019)

I received the ball screws for my #pm30mv from eBay seller #linearmotionbearings2008. They are pre-machined for the PM30MV and include bearing blocks and nuts.  They are cut and machined for the PM-30MV and include bearing blocks. I may use the bearing blocks to get started but replace them with parts that I machine or buy a set from @Arizona99 (Dave) on YouTube. You can see the ebay listing here.


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## John1125 (Mar 24, 2019)

could you mount your handwheels or power feed with this set of screws? 

I know you said they were premachined but did you have to do any work or will they bolt up direct without issues? 

Thanks , Kirk


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## Landmark (Mar 24, 2019)

My conversion project has been stalled since I got the screws due to budget issues. The screws came with bearing mounts but I need adapter plates to mount them to the #pm30mv. It has also been suggested that the bearings would have too much axial play for a CNC mill so I may need to get new bearings. I also need the motors, drives, couplings, and etc. It all adds up!


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## jbolt (Mar 24, 2019)

The FK bearing block has the angular contact (AC) bearings. The FF block is a simple radial bearing which meant to float axially so it works fine. While not the greatest quality the cheap AC bearings can be made to work without replacing. My PM-932 conversion has been running for 5 years with all but one set of the original AC bearings. Often the bearings are installed incorrectly from the manufacturer and the tolerances of the block and cap are a little generous so some shimming is usually required to get the proper preload and remove any axial play. 

In this post I show how to tuneup the block and bearings. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pm932-cnc-build.21442/post-192473


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## Landmark (Mar 24, 2019)

jbolt said:


> The FK bearing block has the angular contact (AC) bearings. The FF block is a simple radial bearing which meant to float axially so it works fine. While not the greatest quality the cheap AC bearings can be made to work without replacing. My PM-932 conversion has been running for 5 years with all but one set of the original AC bearings. Often the bearings are installed incorrectly from the manufacturer and the tolerances of the block and cap are a little generous so some shimming is usually required to get the proper preload and remove any axial play.
> 
> In this post I show how to tuneup the block and bearings. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pm932-cnc-build.21442/post-192473


Jay, thanks for the information and link to your post. I am going to check it out now.


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## Landmark (May 27, 2019)

The conversion has been very slow going. But I finally decided on Closed Loop steppers from Automation Technology LLC. The controller and drives are wired up and running on the bench. The videos show the Centroid Acorn running a test




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file included with the software. 




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## Livnpaintball (Oct 8, 2019)

Any update? I’m working on the same build more or less..


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## Livnpaintball (Mar 29, 2020)

Just started back on mine, how is your conversion going?


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## phil.dagleish (Jun 12, 2020)

I just pulled the money gun out and shot a PM-30MV down and as by chance.... really! I went
to e-bay and bought the SAME ball screw kit from china.....   THEN I stumbled on this thread
about your build... 

Would you mind list the parts from Auto Tech LLC and their cost?

I would like to evaluate the stuff and maybe follow your lead...

Thanks, I appreciate it.

Phil Dalgleish
Grand Rapids MI




Landmark said:


> The conversion has been very slow going. But I finally decided on Closed Loop steppers from Automation Technology LLC. The controller and drives are wired up and running on the bench. The videos show the Centroid Acorn running a test
> View attachment 295392
> 
> file included with the software.
> View attachment 295391


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