# What rod for welding red iron



## matthewsx (Jul 30, 2022)

I just got a cheap stick welder and am about to start on the new table for my lathe. 




Will be using this 3/8” red iron for the base and looking for recommendations on which rod to use. 




Thanks,

John


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## General Zod (Jul 30, 2022)

Unless you've done a spark test, or some other kind of test, to determine that it is actually some kind of cast iron and not regular, mild, low-carbon steel, you can use any standard steel rod to weld it since it is most likely regular ol' mild steel that has been painted for corrosion resistance.  When I say "any standard steel rod", I mean E6011, E6013, E7014, E7018 being the most common ones.   Most welders under $500 can't run E6010s properly, so I don't recommend you waste your money buying those.   I have two super cheap inverter stick welders, is how I know.  

By the way, are you aware of the short comings of the stick welder (and it's accessories) you just bought?


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## matthewsx (Jul 30, 2022)

I know it's structural steel not cast iron, just painted red and commonly referred to as red Iron in the building trades.

I'm sure the machine I've purchased likely has many shortcomings, I'd expect nothing less for under $100. I'm open to recommendations in that price range that are better.

John


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## Nutfarmer (Jul 30, 2022)

6011 is what I would use on the heaver steel with a buzz box. Lighter steel use 6013. If you have a good dc machine it’s hard to beat 7018. I have never been able to run 7018 on a buzz box.


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## General Zod (Jul 30, 2022)

At that price range, they're likely all the same.....as they say, "they're all coming from the same factory, same production line, except the paint job/brand name is painted differently at the end of the assembly line".








I saw the same exact thing with my super cheap inverter stick welders from Tooliom.   The "195" put out about 160A on 240V.  The "135" put out 115A on 240V and about 95A on 120V.  Don't get me wrong, if _you _know how to weld, you will be able to weld with these machines (except with E6010s), but if you don't, you don't know what you don't know, and thus won't know what is what.   Hopefully you do already know how to weld.  Some issues namely:


Amperage display and rating is over rated by a lot (as you can see from that snapshot from Amazon; TB1717 on YouTube has tested these and has documented this evidence)
Cables are CCA, and not OFC copper, which is what they should be (OFC copper for better current transfer)
Some of the stingers do not have actual copper/brass jaws.  They use _copper/brass plated _steel jaws.
All of that summed together spell d-i-s-a-s-t-e-r  for a beginner welder.  That said, they will still "work", just not as nice as a _good _welder with good _quality _accessories.  Surprisingly, there are some on Amazon/Ebay that have sort of caught-on to us that have have caught-on to _them _the distributors (I hesitate to call them "manufacturers, lol); some claim that their welders do actually put out the amperage that they are rated at, which is unheard of for a _real _welding machine to have to state such a fact.   In a good welder, it is assumed that it will, so for them to have to state "_our welders actually put out what they are rated at_!" tells you everything about what is going on with some of the cheap machines.

This one from *Hone Arc* is one example.  Supposedly actually puts out 185A, which if it does, makes it nothing short of stellar with regards to power:cost ratio.  Most 200A welders under $200 put out about 150-160A in reality.   I'm actually wanting to try it to see if it is really true!

One that has been tested, but is more expensive, is the *Kicking Horse A220*.  I can't speak for how smooth it is, nor durability, but that little lunchbox puts out 220A! TB1717 on YouTube tested it out in this video, and the power output, well, is crazy!  If you absolutely need to keep it under $500, that Kicking Horse doesn't look too bad.  If you have $500 to spend, the HTP Inverarc 160 Plus DV is the way to go.


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## matthewsx (Jul 30, 2022)

I'm not an expert weldor but I have been sticking metal together since my dad taught me with his oxy/acetylene rig in the 1970's. I do have a small mig welder but figure stick would be better for this thick of material. This is just a "make it strong" application as it's be for the base of my new lathe stand.

Will get some 6011 rod and see how it goes.

John


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## General Zod (Jul 30, 2022)

oh ok, then so long as you know how to "read the puddle" then you'll be able to discern how to make it work with that machine.  E6011 is definitely the go-to for thick with a stick welder.  That steel looks to be ⅜"  or  ½" thickness?


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## matthewsx (Jul 30, 2022)

Yes, 3/8"


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## markba633csi (Jul 31, 2022)

Here's a handy-dandy chart:


	

		
			
		

		
	
(position 1 means any position, 2 means horiz. only)
Note: digit 4 should read "iron powder" not "iron power"


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## Martin W (Jul 31, 2022)

6011 or  7018 will be fine.  Brush the mill scale off and go at it . Practice make perfect. IMHO.
Cheers
Martin


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## markba633csi (Jul 31, 2022)

I like the name "Kicking Horse"-  were they trying to sound like "Kicking A$$" ?  
Also, isn't that a character in "Joe Dirt"?


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## General Zod (Jul 31, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> Yes, 3/8"


 duh, I didn't see it in the original post, lol.  

For your lathe table, that angle will be more than strong enough, no need for 6011 unless you want to weld as-is with zero prep.  E7018 will go in smoother, slag peels off/chips off super easy; just clean off the crud along the proposed weld joints.  Some E7018 1/8" @140A or 5/32" @ 150A (depending on joint configuration  and welding direction  of course) will do the trick.  

If you have not yet bought any rods, the best value for the money are import rods coming by way of Florida, Mundaka Technologies, if you are willing to save buy buying in "bulk".  They have 55 lbs of 1/8" 7018 for $120 shipped on their website; hard to beat $2.18/lb for stick electrodes now a days.     I've used their 3/32" E7018 and they work as good as big box store Lincoln 7018AC rods.  

If you want to get great rods, very inexpensive, for just a little bit more, I suggest Kiswel E7018s.  I just bought 30lbs of their E7018s in 3/32" for $67 shipped on Ebay ($2.23/lb), and the 1/8" rods cost the same.  They are of course, an international company headquartered in Asia (Malaysia & South Korea), but they do have a factory in Florence, KY that manufactures MIG wire, and it runs great as well (I use their Gas-Shielded Flux Core and Gas-Shielded Metal Core wires).  They actually have rods even less expensive on the website $58 shipped for 30lbs ($1.93/lb, shipped!), but there isn't a rod diameter selection drop-down menu, so I don't know if you have to simply place it in the Notes section of the order before one places the order.   I emailed them about it so hopefully they fix it because it's the least expensive rod I've found, and it actually runs great.  Quite the rare combination in these days & times.


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## General Zod (Jul 31, 2022)

markba633csi said:


> I like the name "Kicking Horse"-  were they trying to sound like "Kicking A$$" ?
> Also, isn't that a character in "Joe Dirt"?


 lol, yea it did remind me of that movie.  The character's nickname was definitely something like that.


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## Gaffer (Jul 31, 2022)

markba633csi said:


> I like the name "Kicking Horse"-  were they trying to sound like "Kicking A$$" ?
> Also, isn't that a character in "Joe Dirt"?


Kicking Wing. Joe Dirt is a classic!


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## PSMCGUIRE57 (Jul 31, 2022)

General Zod said:


> Unless you've done a spark test, or some other kind of test, to determine that it is actually some kind of cast iron and not regular, mild, low-carbon steel, you can use any standard steel rod to weld it since it is most likely regular ol' mild steel that has been painted for corrosion resistance.  When I say "any standard steel rod", I mean E6011, E6013, E7014, E7018 being the most common ones.   Most welders under $500 can't run E6010s properly, so I don't recommend you waste your money buying those.   I have two super cheap inverter stick welders, is how I know.
> 
> By the way, are you aware of the short comings of the stick welder (and it's accessories) you just bought?


What you have is some scrap hot rolled mild steel. It appears at some time, it had been painted reddish.

The welder you bought appears to be an Amazon prime day clearance of some kind. YesWelder's web site does not show this as a model? In general YesWelder's stuff gets mixed reviews. Many newbie posts happy to have gotten the welder, several disappointed experienced welders. I'm guessing you paid close to $100 for this thing? If it works once...

Users complain that YesWelder will not provide service to anyone who bought their welder off Amazon. I'm guessing this means some entrepreneur bought out a lot of substandard welders and blew them out on Prime Day?

The usual rule that a man that buys cheap tools may apply here. You'd have been better off buying a Harbor Fright Titanium stick welder, at least there are reviews that show they work.

Now on to your project:

Pretty much the most common rod to use on mild steel is 6013. I'd suggest you start by practicing on some scrap. Be sure you clean the paint off b4 you weld. The steel you have looks a bit light, is it 10ga? Try welding at 100amps then. Be sure to brace the frame on the diagonals as the thin stock will flex too much otherwise.

Post photos of the result!

Astrobuf


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## General Zod (Jul 31, 2022)

Gaffer said:


> Kicking Wing. Joe Dirt is a classic!


Ah yes, that's it.   I'm half-tempted to buy that little lunchbox welder, but I already have too many lunchboxes as it is!


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## General Zod (Jul 31, 2022)

PSMCGUIRE57 said:


> What you have is some scrap hot rolled mild steel. It appears at some time, it had been painted reddish.
> 
> The welder you bought appears to be an Amazon prime day clearance of some kind. YesWelder's web site does not show this as a model? In general YesWelder's stuff gets mixed reviews. Many newbie posts happy to have gotten the welder, several disappointed experienced welders. I'm guessing you paid close to $100 for this thing? If it works once...
> 
> ...


  That is not my steel, but I do agree with you on Yeswelders.


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## Ulma Doctor (Jul 31, 2022)

POint of information 
6013 is designed to weld NEW sheetmetal
3/8” is beyond that 
6011 root passes, 7014 or 7018 caps


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## Eddyde (Jul 31, 2022)

I don't know about $100 
But last year, I bought a "Titanium Stick 225" welder form Harbor Freight. It is an inverter DC output, with either 120v or 240v input. So far its proven to be a pretty decent machine especially for its light weight and compact size. I was able to weld ¼"steel no problem (7018) with amps to spare, I have no doubt it would handle ⅜". I paid a little under $250 with an unrestricted coupon. While it doesn't weld as good as my Miller Syncrowave, for the price and portability, its hard to complain.


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## General Zod (Jul 31, 2022)

Ulma Doctor said:


> POint of information
> 6013 is designed to weld NEW sheetmetal
> 3/8” is beyond that
> 6011 root passes, 7014 or 7018 caps


 While that may be true, they do make E6013 up to 3/16" diameter.  One of those at 225A will do plenty of damage, sheet metal or not, to that ⅜" angle steel.


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## matthewsx (Jul 31, 2022)

First practice beads done with 6011, definitely has enough power to melt this 3/8" steel. I don't have experience with good stick equipment to compare but for what I paid I'm happy, it should do for my purposes. I'll post some pictures once I have burned a few more rods, went to Harbor Freight this morning and bought some safety gear and their Vulcan rods in 1/8", might try some 7018 if I can get by the welding supply this week.

John


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## matthewsx (Jul 31, 2022)

PSMCGUIRE57 said:


> What you have is some scrap hot rolled mild steel. It appears at some time, it had been painted reddish.
> 
> The welder you bought appears to be an Amazon prime day clearance of some kind. YesWelder's web site does not show this as a model? In general YesWelder's stuff gets mixed reviews. Many newbie posts happy to have gotten the welder, several disappointed experienced welders. I'm guessing you paid close to $100 for this thing? If it works once...
> 
> ...


Actually bought it from the Yeswelder store:









						YESWELDER
					

YESWELDER



					smile.amazon.com
				




Just over $100, I have an HF Titanium Mig welder but didn't think it would have enough penetration at 110v. Definitely taking a chance with Yeswelder but for the price you can't even get a used Lincoln Tombstone. Always keeping an eye out for the good stuff cheap but need to move this project forward.

John


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## G-ManBart (Aug 6, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> First practice beads done with 6011, definitely has enough power to melt this 3/8" steel. I don't have experience with good stick equipment to compare but for what I paid I'm happy, it should do for my purposes. I'll post some pictures once I have burned a few more rods, went to Harbor Freight this morning and bought some safety gear and their Vulcan rods in 1/8", might try some 7018 if I can get by the welding supply this week.
> 
> John


Most Tractor Supply stores have 7018 on the shelf as to many Home Depot locations and Menards.  The Hobart 7018AC at TSC actually runs very nicely on DC.  In fact, most 7018 sold today is technically 7018AC, they just don't mark it that way...read the details and it will normally show AC as an option.


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