# PM 45 Mill.  Keeping ways lubed...



## Ray C (Jan 8, 2013)

All,

I have a PM 45 mill (Rong Fu square column knock off) and the vertical ways which support the head are not scraped nor are there any oil cups.  I always give it a few squirts of oil each day it's used but I always wonder if there's adequate film of oil really getting in there.  Question:  Is there any benefit to drilling a small oil channel and installing some oil cups?  Also, would that part of the mill ways benefit from being scraped?

Similar question now:  Both sets of table ways appear to be nicely scraped but there's only 1 oil BB-valve for oil that serves the front-most way in the X axis.  Again, I keep all ways wet as possible but would it be worthwhile to drill oil channels and install cups?

I really like this mill and if I ever grow out of it, will keep it anyhow -want it to last.  It's a keeper.


BTW:  I feel I could properly drill the oil channels and install cups or BB-valves with the unit disassembled but, I would never attempt any kind of that feather-like scraping by myself.  Love the notion of doing that but, it's not in the cards right now.

Thanks for any thoughts...

Ray

PS:  What is the proper name for those BB-valves?


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## Richard King (Jan 8, 2013)

Can you take some pic for me.   If you use a dremel tool to grind in some oil groves be sure to  make them diagonal and not straight as a Diagonal grove spreads the oil over the whole way.  I like the idea or a oil cup. .  It's late, will write tomorrow.  Rich


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## Ray C (Jan 9, 2013)

Will take pics later this evening, Rich.

Thanks


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## Ray C (Jan 9, 2013)

Managed to sneak-in a few pictures this AM. Here you go...


First pic is just the general landscape of the head being supported by square vertical column with smooth ways.





Second pic is close-up of the area. No feather-scraping on ways. No oil cups or BB-valves in sight. I just squirt oil here and about on top and bottom side. Thinking of drilling hole for oil channel in head plate. Also wondering if this aspect of the machine would benefit from having the ways feather-scraped.





And finally, the table ways are nicely scraped and very rugged but, there is only 1 oil bb-valve at the front of the machine that services the x-direction table way. The corresponding way in the rear has no oiler (unless this front BB) is channeled to service that one too.





The two y-direction ways beneath the x-direction ways have not oilers at all. They too are nicely scraped and rugged. I will show better pictures of that setup later today.

As mentioned, I always squirt the machine before use but, it bugs me not knowing if the film of oil is adequate.



Ray



Ray C said:


> Will take pics later this evening, Rich.
> 
> Thanks


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## Ray C (Jan 9, 2013)

More Pics of the overall table with the Y-direction ways exposed and a close-up.  Can't show the X-direction w/o removing the table.  As mentioned, there's no oil cups (except one in the front for x-direction) to ensure the ways are getting oil.  I just squirt a lot of oil in front and back of them before using it.

EDIT:  FYI, I cannot complain about the performance of the machine.  The table stays true within 0.0002" from end-to-end.  The bearings and all other aspects are great.  Really just wondering if this is a mod worth pursuing to make it last longer.


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## GaryK (Jan 9, 2013)

Did the ways come scraped when you bought it. I have a deposit on one of these with Matt.

By BB-valve are you referring to the small oiling locations with a little ball bearing?

How do you get oil into these and know that you are actually getting oil in there?


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## Ray C (Jan 9, 2013)

Yes, they came scraped from the factory.

Yes, bb-valve = those small oiling locations.

I just learned that you take an oilcan with a pointed tip, stick it past the BB and give it a hard squirt.  Works.

FYI:  The machine is 3 years old and going strong.  Like it a lot.



GaryK said:


> Did the ways come scraped when you bought it. I have a deposit on one of these with Matt.
> 
> By BB-valve are you referring to the small oiling locations with a little ball bearing?
> 
> How do you get oil into these and know that you are actually getting oil in there?


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## Woffler (Jan 9, 2013)

I have rf 45 converted to cnc, i took of the saddle of the z axis and ground a line down each side of the ways and two or three cross channels at a 45 degree angle.
 I then drilled and tapped a hole on each side of the saddle for oil fittings needs to be on x and y also or you will wear out your mill surface very fast as oil tends to be pushed off of your ways instead of lubricating them .

I then installed push to click fittings with 1/8 poly tubing back to a hand pump oilier i found that it is (ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY) because as you start using it for cnc you will be running that head up and down a lot.

On your Z axis scraping ,depends on weather you have tight spots top to bottom :NOTE mine did ,it does not become apparent until you hang the weight of the head on the machine NOTE: with the ball screw installed.
As you run the head up and down under power and say tighten your gibbs up to where you want them and it sticks in one spot or another.

I had to identify the tight spots with stain and then remove the extra metal works fine now ,good luck and if i can help in any way please let me know.


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## Richard King (Jan 9, 2013)

It sounds like Wolfer did what you should do.  Be sure to grind a diagonal line and not a straight line (example top left to bottom right) . I can teach you to 1/2 moon. Its pretty simple, just takes lots of practice.  You need to give the ground ways oil holes or eventually the ways will get stuck together like ringing gage blocks together.  I would also make a way wipers for your machines.  You can buy wiper strips on MSC and McMaster Carr in 18" lengths and cut them to fit your machines.  Anyone who sells Chicago Rawhide seals has CR wipers too.  If you buy some oil cups be sure to get the spring cover ones that looks like a L or pipe elbow.  Be sure you drill a hole threw your gib too and grind  dia grove on it too.  Remember you to only grind or mill a grove on the shorter or not exposed slide.


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## Ray C (Jan 10, 2013)

OK Folks,

Looks like this would be worthwhile as an improvement.   -And yes, I've been eyeing-over the sitation and pondering what I feel would be good places to locate the oil grooves, drill the channels and locate the oil cups.  -And I'll probably go with spring-cap cups with felt filters instead of the spring-valves or pressured system.  I've never pulled the gibs out so I'll have a look there too.  It has steel gibs and will make some of brass or other suitable material.  To help increase my odds of success, I'll read/watch Rich's materials on scraping and machine repair first as I suspect that's all covered there.  Who knows, maybe I'll learn enough to head-off problems with the lathe too.

Really though, at the moment, I'm trying to prioritize between doing this and starting the heat-treat oven mentioned a few weeks ago.  All of this stuff is for personal projects.  Things are slow now but the boat and lawn stuff will pick up soon enough.  Hmmm, it's going to be tricky pulling the mill apart but, I've been meaning to put it on levelers anyhow so, might as well bite the bullet...   -Sorry for thinking out loud...


Ray


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## darkzero (Jan 11, 2013)

For these ball valves I believe the correct oiler to use are the ones they call high pressure oilers.







The one I used to use is the red metal one on the right. I had two of them & they leaked like crazy. HF used to sell these but now they carry that clear all plastic one sitting to the left of it. I decided to get one since it was only a couple of bucks, to my surpise it has been working great for a couple of years now & has never leaked on me. And that HF one holds 8oz instead of 5oz.

Grizzly also sells them. http://www.grizzly.com/products/High-Pressure-Oil-Can-5-Oz-With-Steel-Nozzle/H7615

But really you can use any oiler that has a tip that will depress the ball & have enough pressure to inject the oil in. My PM lathe came with a squeeze bottle that has a tip that works with these ball valves but I never did try to use it.


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## Ray C (Jan 11, 2013)

Must be the oil-can equivalent of "Assault Guns"....    Sorry, sorry, sorry....  Sorry Tony, I know, I did a bad thing but I couldn't help myself.


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## Ray C (Jan 11, 2013)

BTW: Now that I've been indoctrinated into the virtues of bb-valves and oil cans, I made a little mod to the oil can nozzle tips.

I made a tiny slit at the opening. Now the tip can push-in the BB and also seal around the hole circumference of the valve but the little slit allows the oil to shoot out w/o having to push the BB out of the way. Hope that made sense...


Ray

EDIT:  Clarified 1st sentence.


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## DaveSohlstrom (Jan 11, 2013)

IMO the ways on your mill have not been scraped. Someone has done a poor job of flaking the ways. They also flaked the wrong side. You have nice little pockets that hold grit and dirt that grinds away at the other surface. If your ways were scraped they would look something like this with out the flaking.

Dave


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## Ray C (Jan 11, 2013)

Dave,

I was thinking exactly the same thing...  Why would you want the scraping exposed where grit can get in there and get dragged in between the pieces?

Let's say you have a lathe and the shiny ways are exposed...  You wouldn't want scraping there, you'd want scraping under the saddle/carriage it seems.  Correct?


Ray


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## DaveSohlstrom (Jan 12, 2013)

We have apples and oranges here. We have machine scraping that is used to get a surface dead flat  and parallel to mating surfaces. This way your contact ares is optimum. The degree of finish for scraping is given in points per square inch (PPI) and percentage of points (POP). I believe ways are scraped to 24-40 and a surface plate to 40-40.
Then we have machine flaking for oil retention on the machine. The flaking should be done on a surface that prevents grit and grim from settling into the flaking. This is what you have on your machine and it is poorly done and on the wrong surface.

I don't know if you have seen this thread.  http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/8407-Scrapping-finish I started it when I was having trouble. Richard King gave me a lot of info on scraping.

Dave


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## Richard King (Jan 12, 2013)

Those cheap machines are flaked at the factory like that.  Peter the host of the MN class I had last summer had a Rung-Fo copy and it had the same crappy flaking on it.  Plus it was out .008".  I probably am not the best "Moderator for the Chinese machine forum"  as they are not the best of quality now.  But I am old enough to remember they used to call machines from Japan. Japanese junk...lol...now they are first class machines.  When Chinese quality machines are being built..we will say those dang cheap machines made in Viet Nam.   Dave it's nice to see you understood...I had to look at who was writing that about PPI and POP....thought I wrote that...LOL and Dave I bet you learned as much from Forrest    Thanks for the compliment


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