# Atlas 10 vs Delta 10 - opinions?



## thenrie (Oct 10, 2013)

I am a newbie and have been lurking for some time. I have been watching for a first lathe for a number of years and recently came across a couple that I like, while at the same time having a little discretionary funding available (although I'll still have to get it past the family finance department). Over the past several years, I have passed on a couple lathes, simply because I didn't know they were as good a buy as they were. Looking back, there was a Rockford I really wish I had bought. Not sure I picked the right forum for this question, but, after doing a little research on the forums, I figured to ask here in the Atlas forum.

I have located two Atlas 10s in the area, both of which appear from pictures to be in decent cosmetic condition (clean, nice paint). One has a QC gearbox, while the other does not, both appear to be longbed models, both are on homemade stands. The one with the QC wants $900 and the other wants $750. Neither includes enough tooling, etc to be exciting (the latter includes a steady rest and the gear set). I think both are a bit overpriced (I'm sure they expect some negotiation to take place as well). I have not, as yet, gone out to look at either.

The other lathe I am looking at (see attached photo) is a 10" Delta/Rockwell. It appears to have been unused for some time, stored outdoors on a porch, and has a coat of light rust on all the bare steel parts. The owner wants $1200. The Delta is a longbed with about 36" between centers, has a flame-hardened bed, a quick change tool holder, and the normal 3 and 4 jaw chucks, face plate, steel cabinet/chip pan, but little else. I believe it is about double overpriced, for its condition, which is why I'm comparing it to the two Atlases. I haven't been to look at it yet.

My interest in a lathe is purely from a hobbyist standpoint. I currently know little about machining and use of lathes, but have always wanted to learn. I love tools, I love to make things, and I love to make my own tools. Some of my hobbies require me to scrounge for obsolete parts. I have always wished I could manufacture many of my own replacement parts. I have had a lathe on my wish list for many years. While my dream lathe would be a SB 13 longbed, it's not practical for me right now, since I will have to be moving my shop within a year across the country. I expect that will be my lathe down the road a ways. The Atlas and the Delta appear to offer me a good compromise for a first lathe, in what they can do and portability. Things I will ask of the lathe include making small parts, like specialty bolts, threading, making automotive parts for resto/homebuild, gunsmithing, toolmaking, tool restoration.

I am aware that parts availability may be an issue with the Delta, but also that it is a bit beefier than the Atlas. I'm interested in hearing opinions as to the differences and which would be considered a "better" lathe, if comparing the two lathes in new condition. Also, which would be the better value. I realize everything is subjective, but I would love to hear the opinions.

By the way, I am leaning toward the Delta. From what I have read it is a little heavier/more capable as a lathe.


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## schor (Oct 10, 2013)

I have an atlas th54 and it's great for hobby use, mine does not have a quick change gearbox and I really wish it did. I'd go for one with a qcgb for sure.


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## Uncle Buck (Oct 10, 2013)

I have a well tooled Atlas/Craftsman 12". My lathe is in beautiful condition, like new. I would trade my Atlas/Craftsman 12" for that Delta straight across any day. That Delta is a far better machine than not only the two Atlas machines you showed, but ANY Atlas/Craftsman, and that is coming from a guy that owns a very pristine model Atlas/Craftsman.

Buy the Delta, forget about the Atlas machines.

(of course this is all based on the Delta being in reasonably decent running condition)


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 10, 2013)

That Delta will clean up nice, and will be a lot more machine than the Atlas.  Atlas are great machines, but not meant to compete with machines like the Rockwell.  

Variable speed kicks butt.  After a few hours cleaning it up, you'll be a lot happier working on the Delta.


Bernie


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## Tom Griffin (Oct 10, 2013)

The Delta is a far better machine than the Atlas. It has V ways for better precision vs. the flat ways on the Atlas and it all cast iron for rigidity vs. cast iron and pot metal on the Atlas. I would buy it over the Atlas even if it needed extensive rebuilding. In the end you will have a much better machine.

Tom


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## Dranreb (Oct 10, 2013)

As a happy atlas owner who got it for much the same reasons as yours, I would go for the Delta simply because it is a better machine in nearly all respects, I wouldn't worry about spares, if you think the machine is worth buying after seeing it I wouldn't think you would wear anything out in a very long time.

Best to get a move on though as many have pondered far to long and someone else had stole it from under them.

Bernard


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 10, 2013)

Dranreb said:


> As a happy atlas owner who got it for much the same reasons as yours, I would go for the Delta simply because it is a better machine in nearly all respects, I wouldn't worry about spares, if you think the machine is worth buying after seeing it I wouldn't think you would wear anything out in a very long time.
> 
> Best to get a move on though as many have pondered far to long and someone else had stole it from under them.
> 
> Bernard



+1



Bernie


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## thenrie (Oct 10, 2013)

Thanks all. I didn't expect such an overwhelming one-way response, despite the fact that I know the Delta is a heavier machine. We'll see what happens.


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## richl (Oct 10, 2013)

The voice of reason... definitely get the Rockwell.Keep in mind this though. Parts are harder to come by,  meaning they cost moreCheck to make sure the motor is strong, not leaking grease does not show signs of going bad.Check all the gears make sure they are there and they have all there teeth.The other components can be fixed or found gears bearings and electric pieces can not be had so easilyGood luck, the Rockwell lathes are strong precise machines. Professional toolsRich


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## wa5cab (Oct 11, 2013)

I won't disagree that if the Delta is in good condition and has nothing missing it's the better machine (assuming that it is a 12").  But I have to take exception to the snide pot metal comment because others who may not know anything about the various machines may also read this forum.  In the first place there is no pot metal in an Atlas other than maybe in some of the motors.  The material is Zamak which by definition is not pot metal.  In the second place, all of the parts in the Atlas that have anything to do with rigidity are either cast iron or semi-steel, not Zamak.  

Also, the Atlas 10" is an early model, probably a 10D, with 5/8" lead screw and no power cross feed.  Unless it comes with a lot of accessories it's significantly overpriced in most parts of the country.  The other Atlas is a 12x36 Craftsman and is probably a 101.27440 from the 1950's.  Much the better of the two assuming equivalent condition.  However, it still has 3/8" ways and wouldn't be a good choice for much heavy work.  If a 10" machine is large enough for what you want to do, and if the Delta is in good condition (except the motor, which should be easy to replace), then it would be your best choice of the three.  If a 10" isn't large enough (it wouldn't be for me), or if the Delta isn't in good condition, then I would keep looking.  The Atlas machines made after 1957 have 1/2" beds and were made with cabinets and underdrive.  And there are other makes that are even heavier (and usually much more expensive).

Robert D.



TomG said:


> The Delta is a far better machine than the Atlas. It has V ways for better precision vs. the flat ways on the Atlas and it all cast iron for rigidity vs. cast iron and pot metal on the Atlas. I would buy it over the Atlas even if it needed extensive rebuilding. In the end you will have a much better machine.
> 
> Tom


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## iron man (Oct 11, 2013)

Over the years I have welded plenty of zamak and it weld no different than any regular pot metal you just have to be careful with the heat. It is just a different version of pot metal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_metal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamak


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 11, 2013)

I'm sure Zamak would weld similarly to "pot metal" because it is an aluminum-zinc alloy, but Zamak's components are accurately and purposefully measured (unlike "pot metal").

It is still formulated to be easy to cast at lower temps, and is still not made for industrial stresses and wear over decades, or significant abuse.  But whoever uses their home shop machine enough to wear out their gears is certainly having enough fun, and doing enough work, to justify a few replacements over the years!!  

I really don't know any home shop person who has ever had major issues besides a chipped tooth on a gear- and due to the hobby environment, I hear just as many folks breaking one's on South Bends too.  

Bernie


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## iron man (Oct 11, 2013)

It does seem like a cheap metal but if you consider how long it last it does not work to bad. It should be very cheap to make but the price of the gears does not reflect that anymore. I have run steel replacement gears against it and they run much more quiet. Ray


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## itsme_Bernie (Oct 11, 2013)

iron man said:


> It does seem like a cheap metal but if you consider how long it last it does not work to bad. It should be very cheap to make but the price of the gears does not reflect that anymore. I have run steel replacement gears against it and they run much more quiet. Ray



I bet they do!  I prefer steel gears, but never had an issue with the Zamak myself.



Bernie


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## Halfnuts (Oct 12, 2013)

The Delta is the machine.  A good friend has one.  That's the 10" x 36" with variable speed drive and quick change gear box.  Friend is a retired model maker and bought his machine in the 1960s new.  It's a very nice machine.  Look it up at http://www.lathes.co.uk/delta metal/index.html  They say some nice things about the headstock and the overall quality of the Rockwell/Delta.

They were popular machines in metal shops in trade and high schools; you can tell the ones that came from schools because they usually have lots of chips in the ways where careless teenagers dropped the chuck.  So long as everything works and the ways aren't too worn, you should be happy with that machine.

If you don't want it, I'll get my son at Liberty U to pick it up and stash it under his bunk in his dorm room until I find a reason to drive my pickup back there to visit him!


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## thenrie (Oct 12, 2013)

Working on trying to get the Delta 10". We'll see what happens.


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## Halfnuts (Oct 12, 2013)

thenrie said:


> Working on trying to get the Delta 10". We'll see what happens.



Hope you get it.  Just for the record, Zamak shouldn't be confused with "pot metal."  There's some information on it here which indicates what it is and why Atlas used it:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/


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## thenrie (Oct 12, 2013)

Uh oh! A Sheldon 13 may have just entered the race. Just came up on CL. Needs work, some parts, and comes with nothing.

I think I've decided against the Atlases. I'm still looking hard at that Delta. I guess I'll start lurking on that forum. Thanks for the help, guys. It's great to be able to get info from people who know.)


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## toag (Oct 12, 2013)

i would go for the heviest one you can move and want to use.  from there i would look for condition, price, tooling and make, pretty much in that order.  The delta is a nice machine with decent tooling (no collets though, think it takes 4C which arent cheap).  If the sheldon has the same tooling, get it.  much heavier machine is a more rigid and can take a bigger cut and make a bigger part.  let us know, and pics (cause you know.. tool porn) or it didnt happen.


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## Uncle Buck (Oct 12, 2013)

thenrie said:


> Uh oh! A Sheldon 13 may have just entered the race. Just came up on CL. Needs work, some parts, and comes with nothing.
> 
> I think I've decided against the Atlases. I'm still looking hard at that Delta. I guess I'll start lurking on that forum. Thanks for the help, guys. It's great to be able to get info from people who know.)



I am a big fan of the Sheldon brand, but not a bare machine. For a bare machine the price better be real bloody cheap because that tooling is going to cost a bunch, possibly more than the cost of the Delta. You might think hard about that. Also, bigger is not always better. Remember, the bigger the machine gets the costlier the tooling it uses. Perhaps if the Sheldon is a gimme price I might think about it.


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## wa5cab (Oct 13, 2013)

Iron Man,

Outside of encyclopedias (Wikipedia does not qualify) and metallurgy texts, "pot metal" is almost never used as other than a derogatory term.  Which is how the post I was replying to had obviously (and incorrectly to boot) used it.  

In any case, this thread hasnothing to do with the repairability of small parts.  Only once in over half a century did Atlas make the mistake of using Zamak in a major high stress component, an error that was corrected in less than a year (the 3950).

Robert D.



iron man said:


> Over the years I have welded plenty of zamak and it weld no different than any regular pot metal you just have to be careful with the heat. It is just a different version of pot metal.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_metal
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamak


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## iron man (Oct 13, 2013)

wa5cab said:


> Iron Man,
> 
> Outside of encyclopedias (Wikipedia does not qualify) and metallurgy texts, "pot metal" is almost never used as other than a derogatory term. Which is how the post I was replying to had obviously (and incorrectly to boot) used it.
> 
> ...



I understand that there are a hundred different types or alloys of steel, brass, and aluminum it does not make them any less steel, brass and aluminum. The same hold true for Zamak.


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## Dranreb (Oct 13, 2013)

iron man said:


> I understand that there are a hundred different types or alloys of steel, brass, and aluminum it does not make them any less steel, brass and aluminum. The same hold true for Zamak.



The whole point of making alloys is that their properties are usually superior to those of the component metals, if they were  inferior, there would be no point in producing them...


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