# Worthless Tools Gallery. What Tools do you regret buying?



## EmilioG

I've bought a lot of tools over the years and I have bought a few that I regret buying?
Like the universal center punch. What a waste.  What tools have you purchased that later
on you regretted and maybe tossed or worse. (see Tubalcain hammering a drill point grinder!)
 I'd like to avoid bad tools in the future, and gimmicky tools that are just unnecessary.  You don't have to
name names but what are some tools that should be avoided? Thanks


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## kd4gij

Me, I never regret buying tools. Outher things yes. If a tool doesn't do as advertise I eather fix it or it becomes something deffern't and usefull.:roflmao:


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## jpfabricator

Porter Cable "laser guided" circular saw. The laser never was straight and its housing makes it near imposible to see the line guide on the saws shoe.

Jake Parker


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## mzayd3

An edge finder with a .500 head


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## kd4gij

mzayd3 said:


> An edge finder with a .500 head












    A 1/2" edge finder is quite usefull on large diameter stock. I use on al the time. A .200 doesn't work well there.


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## darkzero

EmilioG said:


> Gallery



Uh, so where are the pics?!!!  :lmao:




kd4gij said:


> A 1/2" edge finder is quite usefull on large diameter stock. I use on al the time. A .200 doesn't work well there.



Agreed I like using 1/2" for certain things too. The ones I hate & won't buy are the metric ones, not as easy to split unless using the 1/2 axis function on a DRO between two edges. Well that's cause I don't use metric for measurements.


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## brav65

First off, I would not say that too loud around here... I don't think I have ever bought a tool that I regretted buying.  As mentioned above every tool has a purpose, it just may not be the one that it was originally  purchased for.  I even like cheap tools, that way I don't feel bad when I hack it up to make it into a tool that I need.  I also like having tools that I can "loan" out and not worry about ever getting it back.  Being the guy who has all the tools means that friends expect that you can loan them everything.  The problem with that is I make my money with my tools and can't afford to have a knuckle head friend ruin a tool because they don't know what they are doing.




EmilioG said:


> I've bought a lot of tools over the years and I have bought a few that I regret buying?
> Like the universal center punch. What a waste.  What tools have you purchased that later
> on you regretted and maybe tossed or worse. (see Tubalcain hammering a drill point grinder!)
> I'd like to avoid bad tools in the future, and gimmicky tools that are just unnecessary.  You don't have to
> name names but what are some tools that should be avoided? Thanks


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## SG51Buss

I have a real love/hate thing going on with my battery-powered portable tools.  Several years ago I went whole-hog on 18v portables.  They work great, fantastic.

The crappy batteries are the gotcha.

They're the older Ni-CD, always discharged before use, don't hold charge, can't find proper replacements, newer expensive replacements prevent the tools from fitting nicely in their boxes, and they're now nearly useless.

There is a battery rebuilding service, expensive, but no guaranty that they'll have any useful life.


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## fixit

What is a "universal center punch" ? Sound interesting I may need one. Photo please.

fixit


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## xalky

SG51Buss said:


> I have a real love/hate thing going on with my battery-powered portable tools.  Several years ago I went whole-hog on 18v portables.  They work great, fantastic.
> 
> The crappy batteries are the gotcha.
> 
> They're the older Ni-CD, always discharged before use, don't hold charge, can't find proper replacements, newer expensive replacements prevent the tools from fitting nicely in their boxes, and they're now nearly useless.
> 
> There is a battery rebuilding service, expensive, but no guaranty that they'll have any useful life.


The solution is the Makita 18v litium ion  tools. All my cordless stuff is now makita with the 18v,  3.0 AH , lithium ion batteries. They aint cheap, but worth every penny. Makes every other cordless tool that I've ever owned look like a kids toy. I don't say that lightly.


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## ogberi

Most useless tool I ever bought.....

I'd have to say a needle scaler from Horrible Freight.   I went through 3 (three) of them before I got one that worked.  On the third trip, I drug along a pony tank in the VW bus and made the manager come outside so I could hook up the tool and make sure it wasn't DOA as the first two were.   It worked, so I assumed all was good.  

I don't needle scale anything, but I did intend to weld a ratchet extension onto the needle plate and use it for ramming greensand foundry molds.  I'd been using an air chisel with a similar modification, but the off-center impact (it forces your hand backwards, much like a pistol) was murder on my wrists.  The needle scaler was much better ergonomically, did the same job.  

Took it home, tested it again, no problems.  Took it apart, welded in the cheap-o 3/8 extension, slapped on the ramming head, and started ramming a mold with it.  Got about 3 minutes of usage out of it, and it simply stopped.  I cursed, chucked it across the garage, and manually rammed up the mold.  :angry:

Later I took it apart to find that the moving metal parts had galled themselves into a solid chunk, despite being well oiled.  Since I'd been welding on it, I couldn't return it.   Shoulda spent the $40 on scrap metal for other projects.


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## EmilioG

fixit said:


> What is a "universal center punch" ? Sound interesting I may need one. Photo please.
> 
> fixit



It's hard to hold the tension evenly so the punch marks come out off center.  I prefer individual punches from a set.


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## CluelessNewB

The first stationary power tool I ever purchased was a Craftsman 10" Radial Arm saw.  It was purchased new around 1987.  The frame and arm were so flimsy that a nudge with your hand would knock it out of alignment. I quickly sold it an found a well used 1960s Dewalt that I still have.  I have used some decent Craftsman tools but that model saw was not one of them!


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## Fabrickator

When I was doing a lot of wood working I bought the new tool on the block, a Porter Cable Moulding/Contour sander.  It doesn't work worth a hoot and you have to change the paper every few minutes.

One Xmas I got a fancy Crapsman Laser guided jig saw.  Used it once, maybe twice because you never know when it will actually turn on and run.  Most of the times I've got it out, it didn't run.  Tried to return it, and it worked.  Go figure...


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## fixit

EmilioG said:


> View attachment 88084
> 
> 
> It's hard to hold the tension evenly so the punch marks come out off center.  I prefer individual punches from a set.



Fixit says 
Thank you, never seen one now I've seen it all ! )


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## jim18655

I usually don't regret buying any tool. Receiving tools as gifts is another story altogether.


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## nickmckinney

ogberi said:


> .....Horrible Freight......



I would say 10-20% of the tools from HF are worthless after a single use if you can get that far with them.


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## george wilson

I have found my contour sander quite useful. You have to expect to change a SMALL piece of sand paper pretty often. It's SMALL. I have found mine useful for polishing knife blades I am making,with wet or dry paper. saves my old fingers!!


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## Ulma Doctor

i regretted the purchase of an early HF drill with a keyless chuck. 
after a couple jobs....
i became so enraged with it's lack of holding power that i smashed the whole drill to pieces when i spiked it like a football on the concrete floor.
i did that so i would not be tempted to try and salvage it, and i got some anger issues it would appear:jester:

i would not recommend them to anyone for drilling anything harder than room temperature butter.:angry:


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## chips&more

About half my eBay tool purchases are heartburn. I’m buying name brand stuff, but the sellers are misrepresenting it in some clever way. So I’m either fixing it or sending it back.


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## CluelessNewB

The "Irwin 7 1/4" 15702ZR 6-Tooth Fiber Cut Cement Board Saw Blade"  total junk.  It didn't make it through 2ft of cement backer board before it shed all 6 of it's carbide teeth.  JUNK JUNK JUNK!


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## Cheeseking

In my younger days bought  a nice shiny yellow no-name emt/conduit cutter.  So frigging bad no matter how hard ya try to guide and finesse it it just spirals its way down the pipe as its rotated.  Lol. Not sure why its still hanging next to my real one!!   I should toss it.


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## f350ca

CluelessNewB said:


> The "Irwin 7 1/4" 15702ZR 6-Tooth Fiber Cut Cement Board Saw Blade"  total junk.  It didn't make it through 2ft of cement backer board before it shed all 6 of it's carbide teeth.  JUNK JUNK JUNK!




Not to break the spirit of the thread but, what do you use to cut cement board. I was gifted 28 4 x 8 sheets of cement siding, it has a wood grain on it, painted white (primer?) Plan on using it to line the blacksmith shop. I made a couple of cuts with a 7 inch metal cutting abrasive wheel in the skill saw, lots of dust and horribly slow. Picked up a masonry one, is it going to be any better?

Greg

Will post some of my useless purchases, will just have to think which were the worst.


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## Andre

HF transfer punches. They are too soft and the tips get dull in 6061 aluminum with one light whack. When the SB13" comes in I will drill a hole in the middle of them lengthwise and put in a long dowel pin. I can use the same pin for all the punches, and the punches will just act as a guide. Making it possible to transfer holes of thin materials. Or so that's the way it works in theory


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## savarin

My old transmig 130 finally started getting a bit variable in performance so I went for a brand new 3 in one from ebay.
Worse purchase I've ever made.
The first one arrived with burns on the mig tip but worked a treat, very smooth. I primarily use 0.6mm wire.
Then it stopped with no warning, working yesterday, not working today.
It was replaced under warranty and a brand new unit arrived within the week.
Awesome I thought.
No burn marks on the mig tip so yep, brand new.
First problem, wouldnt take .6 wire. numerous phone calls and emails ignored.
Made a new wheel to take the .6 but it wouldnt push the wire.
At least the .8 wire worked but thats too big a weld for most of my work.
You guessed it, the mig stopped working a month later.
Not a thing from the company total ignore.
At least the tig and stick work very well but I need the mig. I feel a mug.
The company is AGR Machinery and it appears from all the internet traffic that this is their normal modus operandi.


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## kd4gij

f350ca said:


> Not to break the spirit of the thread but, what do you use to cut cement board. I was gifted 28 4 x 8 sheets of cement siding, it has a wood grain on it, painted white (primer?) Plan on using it to line the blacksmith shop. I made a couple of cuts with a 7 inch metal cutting abrasive wheel in the skill saw, lots of dust and horribly slow. Picked up a masonry one, is it going to be any better?
> 
> Greg
> 
> Will post some of my useless purchases, will just have to think which were the worst.






For cutting that board I use a plywood blade in an old junkey skill saw that I keep for just shuch things. Where a dust mask and goggles the dust flyes.


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## Ulma Doctor

Cheeseking said:


> In my younger days bought  a nice shiny yellow no-name emt/conduit cutter.  So frigging bad no matter how hard ya try to guide and finesse it it just spirals its way down the pipe as its rotated.  Lol. Not sure why its still hanging next to my real one!!   I should toss it.




i think i bought your conduit cutters twin.:banghead:
 i tried to cut some 1/2" copper tubing for a air compressor repair job a few moons back.
has the same spiral cutter issue right out of the box.
i threw it out and finished the job with a hacksaw and small half round file to smooth out the cut.
i now have a Blue Point (Snap-On tools) mini tubing cutter and multiple Rigid tubing and pipe cutters of may sizes.
i would recommend either brand to anyone who would listen.


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## silence dogood

Actually fellows, worthless tools do have value.  If some obnoxious soul wants to borrow a tool, just hand him that worthless piece of #%&! and tell him he can keep it. Chances are you may get rid of two problems at once. Mark


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## DMS

xalky said:


> The solution is the Makita 18v litium ion  tools. All my cordless stuff is now makita with the 18v,  3.0 AH , lithium ion batteries. They aint cheap, but worth every penny. Makes every other cordless tool that I've ever owned look like a kids toy. I don't say that lightly.



We liked ours so much we purchased a second one, so we don't have to fight over them. It's also useful to have one with a driver bit, and one with a pilot drill in it so you don't have to constantly change between them.

But back to the topic, tools I regret buying...

I had a small benchtop Ryobi drill press, it was horrid. I purchased a set of those TiN coated HSS cutters. They were pretty marginal (useable, but I think I have destroyed nearly every one of them). I have a Xacto jewelers saw that is so uncomfortable and badly designed that I am tempted to chuck it in the trash (and they are more expensive than better made models ???). 

That's a pretty short list. Overall, I have had pretty good luck.


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## chuckorlando

One thing the r/c care world taught me was if it aint a LIPO battery it aint worth using. Lipos hold the same power spec from start to finish more or less then they have a protection mode that cuts power back to tell you to charge it.





SG51Buss said:


> I have a real love/hate thing going on with my battery-powered portable tools.  Several years ago I went whole-hog on 18v portables.  They work great, fantastic.
> 
> The crappy batteries are the gotcha.
> 
> They're the older Ni-CD, always discharged before use, don't hold charge, can't find proper replacements, newer expensive replacements prevent the tools from fitting nicely in their boxes, and they're now nearly useless.
> 
> There is a battery rebuilding service, expensive, but no guaranty that they'll have any useful life.


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## Waldo1

Anything from Harbor Freight that has a threaded adjustment screw/retainer in it. Their screws are all made from some secret alloy that has the same strength and Brinell hardness as cheese.


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## chips&more

Ulma Doctor said:


> i think i bought your conduit cutters twin.:banghead:
> i tried to cut some 1/2" copper tubing for a air compressor repair job a few moons back.
> has the same spiral cutter issue right out of the box.
> i threw it out and finished the job with a hacksaw and small half round file to smooth out the cut.
> i now have a Blue Point (Snap-On tools) mini tubing cutter and multiple Rigid tubing and pipe cutters of may sizes.
> i would recommend either brand to anyone who would listen.




I’m hearin ya Ulma Doctor. I would like to add to that wish list of pipe cutters a cutter of the same design but made for cutting plastics like PVC and ABS. The cutting wheel is thinner and does a wonderful job. You can also use a regular metal cutting Ridgid pipe cutter in a pinch for plastics.


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## Jamiethesquid

f350ca said:


> Not to break the spirit of the thread but, what do you use to cut cement board. I was gifted 28 4 x 8 sheets of cement siding, it has a wood grain on it, painted white (primer?) Plan on using it to line the blacksmith shop. I made a couple of cuts with a 7 inch metal cutting abrasive wheel in the skill saw, lots of dust and horribly slow. Picked up a masonry one, is it going to be any better?
> 
> Greg
> 
> Will post some of my useless purchases, will just have to think which were the worst.



I don't remember the brand and it is thoroughly sanded off now, but I bought it a Lowes, It was a 6 tooth carbide tipped blade for the Hardi-backer stuff.  It was probably less than $15 dollars.  I remodeled a kitchen with backsplash and floors and did a tile floor in a bathroom, The Sawblade was a godsend.  The mess was substantial, only an outside project.  I used an older Skil brand saw so I didn't ingest all that fine grit into the inner workings of my Hitachi.  Wore a respirator and glasses and had a Patton fan blowing the dust away from me.  After the projects were done the carbide was pretty beat, But it still cuts, and does it pretty cleanly, So I will continue to use it.  Before that it was a score and snap procedure with a t square and a utility knife.  For cutting curves or outlets, The jigsaw blade with the carbide grit is the way to go.  YMMV


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## stupoty

My first telescopic boore guages were a little diapointing, ok ok they don't work and one broke when i touched it.  I'm not sure things can be worse than that.

I did find a solution though, i bougt some second hand mitutoyo ones. 

so their in the scrap bin now.

i got some of the real small hole guages (expanding wedge type) and they are ok to use, not amazing but they do work.

my general rule now is if theirs a branded version available for not a lot more than a basic one I get that.  E.g. I didn't skimp on an edge finder it was only £6 more for a starret one than a no name china one.

lern from your mistakes, don't keep making them  (i should follow my own advice i reckons)

Stuart


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## SG51Buss

xalky said:


> The solution is the Makita 18v litium ion  tools. All my cordless stuff is now makita with the 18v,  3.0 AH , lithium ion batteries. They aint cheap, but worth every penny. Makes every other cordless tool that I've ever owned look like a kids toy. I don't say that lightly.





DMS said:


> We liked ours so much we purchased a second one, so we don't have to fight over them. It's also useful to have one with a driver bit, and one with a pilot drill in it so you don't have to constantly change between them...





chuckorlando said:


> One thing the r/c care world taught me was if it aint a LIPO battery it aint worth using. Lipos hold the same power spec from start to finish more or less then they have a protection mode that cuts power back to tell you to charge it.



Well, that was enough to get me to do some research and get caught-up with the 21st century.  Sure 'nuff, Ryobi has new 'One-Step' Lithium batteries and dual-chemistry chargers that'll ensure a future life for my 12-year-old gadgets.  So, when my last battery goes *poof*, I'll upgrade to this system.

Thanx, Chuck, DMS, Xalky!  Yew guyz and this forum are great!


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## lens42

Since HF is a leading subject in this thread, I'll point to hfreviews.com as a good resource before you buy.


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## xalky

SG51Buss said:


> Well, that was enough to get me to do some research and get caught-up with the 21st century.  Sure 'nuff, Ryobi has new 'One-Step' Lithium batteries and dual-chemistry chargers that'll ensure a future life for my 12-year-old gadgets.  So, when my last battery goes *poof*, I'll upgrade to this system.
> 
> Thanx, Chuck, DMS, Xalky!  Yew guyz and this forum are great!


Christmas is right around the corner.


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## chuckorlando

I suspect we own the same dark blue ryobi set. I still have a bad taste in my mouth about battery powered anything from that garbage set. With the exception of drills.





SG51Buss said:


> Well, that was enough to get me to do some research and get caught-up with the 21st century.  Sure 'nuff, Ryobi has new 'One-Step' Lithium batteries and dual-chemistry chargers that'll ensure a future life for my 12-year-old gadgets.  So, when my last battery goes *poof*, I'll upgrade to this system.
> 
> Thanx, Chuck, DMS, Xalky!  Yew guyz and this forum are great!


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## francist

Weller electric soldering iron, the one with the red plastic handle. As soon as the tip got up to soldering temperature the handle got so soft the mounting screws fell out. It's funny now but at the time  :angry:

-frank


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## John Hasler

Sledgehammer and axe purchased at a surplus store.  When I tried to use them I found out why they were "surplus".  The plastic of which the handles were made had evidently been incorrectly formulated.  Seemed fine cold, but as soon as work warmed it up a bit the handles turned into noodles.  Swing the sledge ten times and you've got a lump of iron on a rope.  As for the axe, well...

They're sort of usable in below-freezing weather.


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## Mark in Indiana

I can't think of any "worthless" tools that I've ever owned. I've had several over the years that I've been disappointed with the quality and several that were good tools, but so specialized that I wondered why I bought them, outside of a "cant pass it up" price.

I've seen tools that made me ask WTF. The worst one that I can think of is a C-Man 10" woodworking table saw with a granite top. Oh, anytime a laser guide is put on a tool.

Happy trails.


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## Eddyde

There have been a few dissapointments over the years but the first is always the worst.
I was 18 and very much into woodworking at the time (1980). I saved up to buy Sears Craftsman Router, their top of the line, "2 ½" Hp. with dust collection, built in light and "micrometer" depth gauge. Wow, I thought I was in the big leagues with a real pro tool that would be with me for many years to come... Well the ugly truth reared its head during my first project. First, the "micrometer" depth gauge was almost useless being poorly designed rack and pinion arrangement, executed in cheap plastic. Then I found the base wouldn't square to the tool without several rounds of tweaking. But worst, the base wasn't concentric with the spindle... Crestfallen as I was I managed to work around the routers issues and complete a few projects. Then about a year and a half later, I was using it to cut a dado in some pine for a bookcase When it started making a hellacious sound and sparks started flying out of it. Upon opening it up I found the top bearing had come loose, being held in place by a small stamped metal bracket "secured" by two screws threaded directly into plastic. I managed to temporarily fix it and complete the bookcase but I never used it after that.


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## schor

I went to one of those 2 day tool sales where they sell everything dirt cheap, most likely because you cannot find proper ul listing or cas approvals on the tools, chinese junk that was probably headed to the scrap heap.

I bought a reciprocating saw for $14 after I asked to plug it in and it ran, looked kind of like a makita but no branding at all. I thought oh well, how can I go wrong for $14.

First time I tried to use it I found out that it would not hold the blade, once I started cutting the blade would always come loose.


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## hman

Not strictly a "tool," but ...

After reading the thread about fire extinguishers here, I went searching for a CO2 unit.  Found a used one on Craigslist, listed for $40.  Saw the pressure test date was old, bought it for $30.  Went to have it tested and filled - if flunked!

The cylinder outfit that did the testing thinks they might be able to find a replacement cylinder next week ... the valve head was OK.

The good news for me is that, after getting test/fill quotes from a couple of fire extinguisher vendors, I kept looking until I found out where the tests are actually done ... and the failed test cost me only $30 instead of their usual $50.  Just grumpy that I flushed the original $30 down the toilet.:angry:


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## savarin

Those hand mitre saws that have a large blade tensioned by a long length of all thread at the top of the frame and the whole thing slides between 4 vertical guides on plastic guides and flops all over the place and everything is made from the skimpiest pot metal die castings with the clamps that hold the length of wood in place bending at anything over featherweight pressure with a blade that blunts on anything over balsa wood hardness.
But, they look good.


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## petcnc

*Worthless vices story for my X2 mill

* When I first bought my mill I bought a cheap 80mm vise to learn how to use the mill.



As you can imagine it was far from perfect for precision work and as I was feeling more and more comfortable in using the mill I decided to buy a PRESISION VICE to be able to do some more presision work.
Mr e-bay helped me to find a vise within my budget (80 GBP) and I ordered it.



When the vise arrived I noticed a few things I was not happy with:
*A. Marks
*



*B. Holes on the body
*



*C. Missing/broken body parts
*



*D. Scratches everywhere*







*E. Pin was bent and in bad shape
*






*F. Drop marks
*



I was so frustrated with the tool I asked the seller to replace it. He agreed under the condition to send back the vise. When I tried to do so I found out that the postage would be half the value of the vise. I felt it was not worth it to pay another 40 pounds for it so I asked the seller to refund 50% of it's value and I would keep the vise.
He agreed and I have a vise I donot like and I never used.

*PART B KURT STYLE VISE*

Next I put some rectification work on my first 80mm vise and now I can do work on the mill in a satisfactory level




BUT...

I was not totaly happy with it and recently I decided to buy a Kurt style vise for my mill.
I chose I reputable seller (Chronos.ltd.uk) and I ordered a cheap (in comparison to real KURT) Taiwan-made Vertex VA-4 (Four inch) vise. 


I thought a 100mm vise will fit nicely on my mini mill....

When the box arrived I was shocked by the size of it. 

It had the same size to my mill table!!!




When I opened the box and took the handle out I froze!!
It was half the size of the mill table!




When I put the vice on the mill table I felt a complete idiot. 

Even without the base It was a monster







Who will imagine that 20 mm (0.8") will make that difference! 

New vise is nearly double the size of the old one!!!!

As I like the vise, from the looks of it anyway, I made an important decision: To keep the vise and change the mill for a bigger one.
That also means that I need a bigger shop and deeper pockets that I have not got at the moment!

Until then I remain with two vises that are worthless tools for me.

Thanks for your understanding!

I had to confess it to somebody.

As you can imagine my wife is not the "understanding soul" that I wish to be, so she knows nothing on that!!!

Petros


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## jocat54

f350ca said:


> Not to break the spirit of the thread but, what do you use to cut cement board. I was gifted 28 4 x 8 sheets of cement siding, it has a wood grain on it, painted white (primer?) Plan on using it to line the blacksmith shop. I made a couple of cuts with a 7 inch metal cutting abrasive wheel in the skill saw, lots of dust and horribly slow. Picked up a masonry one, is it going to be any better?
> 
> Greg
> 
> Will post some of my useless purchases, will just have to think which were the worst.





Cutting cement with circular blade is going to a lot of dust no matter what.

If your going to be cutting much of it, get a cement board electric shear.(name brand) They work great and no dust. They do leave you with about a 1/4" strip on every cut though. I have one that has cut many feet of cement board and still work great. Bought them used.


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## catoctin

I must have bought that same saw a few years earlier.  Worthless!  I replaced it in 1997 with Hitachi sliding compound miter saw with a mobile base.



CluelessNewB said:


> The first stationary power tool I ever purchased was a Craftsman 10" Radial Arm saw.  It was purchased new around 1987.  The frame and arm were so flimsy that a nudge with your hand would knock it out of alignment. I quickly sold it an found a well used 1960s Dewalt that I still have.  I have used some decent Craftsman tools but that model saw was not one of them!


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## mzayd3

ok, you guys got me thinking.  I would say anything branded as craftsman being made today is junk.  I recently bought a 3/8" universal that rotated itself apart the first time I used it.  Also, a few years ago, I bought a "twin spin" circular saw.  (I couldn't upload a pic, sorry).  It had two 6" or so blades that rotated opposite of each other.  These are supposed to be able to chew through steel, wood, aluminum, blah, blah, blah.  "One tool for everything"- I should have known.  At any rate, I was taking some aluminum awnings off of my mom's house and used this saw to reduce their volume.  (This was the first time I used the thing)  After a few minutes, it started to smell like a burning varnish.  I shrugged it off and kept going.  Well, it started getting hot, to the point that I had to put gloves on.  At this point, I knew it was toast.  I kept using it until it caught on fire, and ended up returning it because it didn't perform anywhere near as intended.  

Also, as it has been mentioned, any tool with a laser mounted on it.  I remember Craftsman selling a drill press with a laser on it.  My only thought was "How dumb!  It's going to drill where you put the stupid thing!  If you don't know where that is, you have no business using any sort of tool."


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## chuckorlando

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Now thats an awesome end to a story. Change the mill and shop to fit the vise ahahahaha. We can all feel your pain I am sure.





petcnc said:


> As I like the vise, from the looks of it anyway, I made an important decision: To keep the vise and change the mill for a bigger one.
> That also means that I need a bigger shop and deeper pockets that I have not got at the moment!
> 
> Until then I remain with two vises that are worthless tools for me.
> 
> Thanks for your understanding!
> 
> I had to confess it to somebody.
> 
> As you can imagine my wife is not the "understanding soul" that I wish to be, so she knows nothing on that!!!
> 
> Petros


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## dave2176

petcnc said:


> *Worthless vices story for my X2 mill
> *
> New vise is nearly double the size of the old one!!!!
> 
> As I like the vise, from the looks of it anyway, I made an important decision: To keep the vise and change the mill for a bigger one.
> 
> I had to confess it to somebody.
> 
> As you can imagine my wife is not the "understanding soul" that I wish to be, so she knows nothing on that!!!
> 
> Petros



Thanks for confessing. I showed my wife your post and she laughed until she cried.:roflmao: I think it reminds her of someone she knows.
Dave


----------



## gr8legs

I have come to the conclusion that any 'X in 1' tool is crap.  It started long long ago with a drill motor set that also powered a jigsaw, circular saw, etc. and none worked - most were hazardous to fingers or other appendages. I mostly learned my lesson . . . until

Recently we wanted to do some small sheet metal enclosures and our shop is not blessed with a lot of spare space, so we purchased one of the 3-in-1 tabletop sheet metal combination machines. Shear, brake and slip rolls in one compact package. Lots of people market these, and they are probably all made within 100 yards of each other in China. Unfortunately, I figured that out after reading all the catalog data and getting the mistaken notion that some were better than others.

I already knew that Harbor Freight markets low cost, low end machines like this - I could go into their local store and see one for myself - and they didn't have a 'small' machine anyway... We wanted a 12" and settled on the one Baileigh Industries sold. Reading their slick color portfolio the concept of 'crap' never was an issue...

Until the small crate of scrap iron arrived that was supposed to be a metalworking machine. The freight cost $80 to get it to us, and would cost us at least another $80 to send it back so we'd be out $160 to send it back, or just the one-way freight plus the exorbitant cost of the crate of scrap iron that was supposed to be a metalworking machine if we kept it. How bad could it be? Unbelievable!

The basic design did not permit the shear or brake to work at all -   Calling Baileigh 'technical support' was a joke - even sending pictures of how the parts of their alleged 'machine' could not possibly work as built elicited a response of 'gee whiz, I've never seen a machine like that before'... Honey, you sold it to me, it's in your catalog and it's your baby! No joy.

Giving up on their support we redesigned and re-machined the scrap a bit and got the pieces close enough together that the shear blades could make (poor) cuts in thin sheet metal, but the brake design was such that after bending a piece you could not remove it from the machine without completely disassembling it. It was almost like it was designed by someone who saw a picture of a similar machine and designed castings that looked the same but were non-functional. A pair of child's scissors and a sesame bagel would be more useful for metal forming.

So, I still have the contents of an expensive crate of scrap metal - a reinforcement of my experience that an 'x in 1' is crap and a resolution to NEVER, EVER buy anything from Baileigh Industries.

Utterly worthless as a tool, but a valuable lesson... And we now, thanks to patience and Craigslist,  have an excellent American-made sheet metal shear, a very nice American-made finger brake and we will probably never need a slip roll.


----------



## Ebel440

Well just recently I started using ebay again for the first time in many years I actually needed a new account because mine had been erased after many years of inactivity. I made one purchase and that was fine. I must have left the website on my kindle and my 2 year old daughter got a hold of it. She somehow bought an angle table for a milling machine. I don't even own a mill yet and was saving to buy one but my money went to this instead.  So I got a 100 pound angle table the seller mislabeled as a rotary table and got stuck paying 500$ after shipping with no returns allowed.  Needless to say I was rather upset. So I have a big crate taking up a good portion of my work area till I sell it or something.


----------



## EmilioG

Ebel440 said:


> Well just recently I started using ebay again for the first time in many years I actually needed a new account because mine had been erased after many years of inactivity. I made one purchase and that was fine. I must have left the website on my kindle and my 2 year old daughter got a hold of it. She somehow bought an angle table for a milling machine. I don't even own a mill yet and was saving to buy one but my money went to this instead.  So I got a 100 pound angle table the seller mislabeled as a rotary table and got stuck paying 500$ after shipping with no returns allowed.  Needless to say I was rather upset. So I have a big crate taking up a good portion of my work area till I sell it or something.




Remember, On Ebay, even though most of the inmates are running the asylum, you do have buyer protection.
If you purchased something that was mis-represented in any way, deliberate or not, you have the right to return it for a
full refund plus your shipping costs.  I've bought a few things that were damaged upon arrival and always got my money back.


----------



## savarin

EmilioG said:


> Remember, On Ebay, even though most of the inmates are running the asylum, you do have buyer protection.
> If you purchased something that was mis-represented in any way, deliberate or not, you have the right to return it for a
> full refund plus your shipping costs.  I've bought a few things that were damaged upon arrival and always got my money back.



Legally yes, in reality quite a few companies use the email system to waste time pretending to be sorting out your complaint until the resolution time frame has run out and you are left in limbo.
Dont get me wrong, I use ebay for a number of things but its impossible to tell the rogues from the honest sellers.
The review system is a joke as negative posts can be removed.
Ebay dont care as long as they get their commission.
If you find a bargain do an extensive search on the company name looking for negative press, if they are shysters there will usually be something out there. I found this out too late to help me but now use it everytime I buy.
Strangely I have had the best results from companies based in mainland china, the one company I had a problem with a product even sent a replacement and didnt want the original returned.


----------



## mws

EmilioG said:


> View attachment 88084
> 
> 
> It's hard to hold the tension evenly so the punch marks come out off center.  I prefer individual punches from a set.



That's a self centering punch. I think they're great! But you have to hold the collar all the way down against the work surface for it to find true center of the hole.


----------



## Bill Gruby

There is no such animal as a "Worthless Tool". Some are misnamed. Some should be Boat Anchors, some Paperweights, but they are not useless. :lmao::lmao::lmao:

  "Billy G"


----------



## GarageGuy

I have a couple of air chisels that seemed like a good idea 35 years ago, but never really get used.  I bought them for cutting and separating exhaust system parts.  They *will* work for that, but there are many other tools that work better.  Even at that time, an oxy-acetylene cutting torch was faster and easier, and nowadays plasma.

Both of my air chisels still work like new (I keep them well oiled), but they haven't been used for an actual job in over 30 years.  I smile when I walk through the DIY stores and see new air chisels amongst the other air tools.  I wonder who is buying them and what they are using them for.

GG


----------



## stupoty

petcnc said:


> *Worthless vices story for my X2 mill
> 
> * When I first bought my mill I bought a cheap 80mm vise to learn how to use the mill.
> View attachment 88137
> 
> 
> As you can imagine it was far from perfect for precision work and as I was feeling more and more comfortable in using the mill I decided to buy a PRESISION VICE to be able to do some more presision work.
> Mr e-bay helped me to find a vise within my budget (80 GBP) and I ordered it.
> 
> Petros



i've gota vice that looks very similer, mine has provided good results, what issues did you have with it?

the kurt one does look very very solid 

Stuart


----------



## EmilioG

mws said:


> That's a self centering punch. I think they're great! But you have to hold the collar all the way down against the work surface for it to find true center of the hole.



This is correct, but sometimes when you strike the blow, the whole UCP moves and you get a bad punch mark.
I prefer the steel punch sets.  Maybe I need to practice using it.


----------



## ogberi

GarageGuy said:


> I have a couple of air chisels that seemed like a good idea 35 years ago, but never really get used.  I bought them for cutting and separating exhaust system parts.  They *will* work for that, but there are many other tools that work better.  Even at that time, an oxy-acetylene cutting torch was faster and easier, and nowadays plasma.
> 
> Both of my air chisels still work like new (I keep them well oiled), but they haven't been used for an actual job in over 30 years.  I smile when I walk through the DIY stores and see new air chisels amongst the other air tools.  I wonder who is buying them and what they are using them for.
> 
> GG



Easy.  Cut the end off the chisel, press fit a plastic block and use it for ramming up greensand molds. Works a treat except for the beating your wrists take.   A similarly modified needle scaler works better, but I've had no luck getting one that works more than a few minutes.


----------



## petcnc

stupoty said:


> i've gota vice that looks very similer, mine has provided good results, what issues did you have with it?
> 
> the kurt one does look very very solid
> 
> Stuart



stupoty I might have been out of luck with all my vises.
This vise came from ARCEurotrade (UK) and I bought it together with my Sieg X2 mill. 
It came with a manual with accuracy tests measurements on it that I suspect are an exact copy in all manuals.
My vise failed miserably in three of the following accuracy tests



G1 0.1
G6 0.1
G8 0.2 on a length of 50mm

As for the rest of the tests I'm not sure I can verify them so I presume they are correct

In plain words that translates as follows.
The body of the vise was not parallel to the base. i.e. when I tested the surfaces on which the jaw moved for parallelism with the base I found that the reading was not equal at the two ends (lower at the far end from fix jaw). 
The movable jaw was too loose to hold the work against fixed jaw without a round bar. The main reason for that loosenes was that the movable jaw body was 0.1 thicker and the holding bars had a 0.1 gap between moving jaw and the vise body (the little white area between red and green in the following drawing)



Fixing it was pretty simple!
I made the surface of the body parallel to the base using my fly cutter
and I reduced the thickness of the moving jaw skimming the base of it so there is (virtually) no gap between holding bars and vise body.

BTW 
ARCEUROTRADE give them vises away for nearly half price now. If I was in UK I might buy the bigger one (100mm) and fix it. 




it is not bad for £46.75 including VAT.
BUT...
I live in Greece and I do not wish to pay another £25 p&p. I don't think is worth it.

Thanks for your interest on the subject

Petros

PS

 the KURT-STYLE one looks VERY solid but 16 kilos is far toooooooo heavy for my little x2 mill


----------



## GarageGuy

ogberi said:


> Easy.  Cut the end off the chisel, press fit a plastic block and use it for ramming up greensand molds. Works a treat except for the beating your wrists take.   A similarly modified needle scaler works better, but I've had no luck getting one that works more than a few minutes.



That's a great idea.  I am planning to build a home foundry in the next year or two.  It would be easy to make a chisel with a big flat face to ram a flask.  Thank you!

GG


----------



## stupoty

Intersting about the vice, i just checked, i got mine from http://www.glostertooling.co.uk/

i will try and have a check of the specs, i havn't mesured mine to be honest.  I've managed to gang mill parts that came out within <0.02mm and i tend to check it with indicators if i'm working on things that are particulaly critical.

Stuart


----------



## Round in circles

Bill Gruby said:


> There is no such animal as a "Worthless Tool".
> Some are misnamed. Some should be Boat Anchors, some Paperweights, but they are not useless. :lmao::lmao::lmao:
> 
> "Billy G"



You obviously ain't met my next door neighbour Bill :lmao:


----------



## Round in circles

30 or so years ago I spent £40 inc taxes on a handsaw designed to cut fired brick and light weight blocks ( It would be about £120 sterling ,  USD $ 200 ish ? ) these days . 
T'was a lovely job , each CTC  tooth was silver soldered in the blade at four to the inch and the profiles of each tooth was brilliant .


 I wanted to make a new door way from our lounge into the kitchen and  brick up the old one to make the off lounge dining area twice as large . What I didn't want to do was start hammering & grinding during the evenings & making a hell of a dust mess. 

A dust sheet either side of the wall and an hour or so of gentle sawing should soon see me cut the two 6 foot nine long verticals. 
I carefully plumbed the wall , drew on fine marker pen lines to follow, then drilled the top two corner holes as square as I could .
Checked the trueness with a right angle found they were square on, drew the verts on the other side & proceeded to use an 8 mm TCT masonry drill off hammer  to make the saw start slots for each side of the frame hole . I drilled them from both sides just to be accurate , it wasn't long before I had two nice and clean 8 inch long slots on each side to insert the saw.
 Stood on a well set trestle board arrangement , I slid the saw in and took the first gentle push forward.  
 It felt weird knowing that I was sawing brick so easy , as I pulled the saw back for the next stoke I saw it was now devoid of all the teeth that had passed through the hole .

Arrrrragh LOUDLY !

I collected all the teeth and cleaned up . Took the saw back to the tool shop the next day and handed over the teeth and saw. 
" OMG Dave , your the third guy who has had a saw like that , never mind here is a more expensive replacement ,   see how you get on with that. " 

 That evening after setting up again I slid the saw in the slot and gently pressed it forward  .  Yep ,all the bloody teeth came out on the first stroke forwards. A my wife  of three months,  "  Alison " was laughing & giggling  fit to pee herself . ( Even today she still  finds it funny ) 

 Fuming I cleaned up and decided to take a simple soft thermal brick to the tool shop the next morning and a basic house brick 


Ron the counter man who was free had a worried look in his face when he saw  the bricks .  There was another guy to my right banging his fist on the table giving the sales man a right ear bending  , he too had one of these " More expensive " saws.

 I made a joke about it all and declared , " Ron if you can cut these two blocks in half with a new saw I'll bugger off and say it's me at fault , if however you get the same result give me a nine inch angle grinder and TCT diamond impregnated brick blade .

"  Errr I'd better get the boss Dave .. 

By now there were several more customers hoping to get served . I carefully & calmly explained the situation to Mal the outfit boss and repeated my offer .  By now there was 16 guys queued up behind us starting to chunter & mutter as they drank their freebie teas ,coffee's or chocolate drinks out the free vend machine in the shop .

 Full of bravado , Mal  , in front of an ever growing queue of potential customers took me up on the offer ,  dragged a new workmate portable bench/ vice  off the display stand , inserted the soft thermal  brick and gently drew the saw back four inches across the block to start the cut   .....Ratta tat tatter tat   ....15 teeth fell out .

" OAF ", he said to Ron, (  Well it sounded a bit similar)   " Give him the top of the range Bosch 9 inch angle grinder and a 9 inch Diamond Borth blade " 

The guy with the other saw said, "What about me " ?  ... A crestfallen Mal then said  , " Aye you too " .
 You should have heard the cheer that went up from the other guys in the shop . 

That incident kept me a faithful customer of the tool shop for the next 20 years or so till I moved from the area  , last time I visited family in the area the shop was still going strong in the same name .  Thought I didn't see any brick cutting handsaws in the brickies tool section of one of the big shop front windows .


----------



## Downwindtracker2

Some of my first power tool purchases were from Sears,70s, top of the line jig saw, 1/3 sheet orbital sander, and a belt sander. I began to see a pattern. Craftsman.


----------



## TomS

Bought a Harbor Freight punch and die set.  The plastic punch guide broke the first time I used it.  Might be OK for punching holes in gasket material but doesn't work well for brass shim stock.


----------



## MikeWi

After my wife ran our gas powered string trimmer with raw gas and ruined the engine, I had the bright idea of buying a Ryobi electric string trimmer that used the same 18 volt battery that my cordless saw used.  Note that this was before they came out with their ONE battery system and the fancy batteries.  The battery was a simple Ni-Cad pack.  Anyway it lasted all of about 5 minutes before running out of power.  Maybe the new batteries would do better, but it was sold with the intent to use the pack that I have.  Simply garbage.  Battery still works fine in my saw.


----------



## Fabrickator

george wilson said:


> I have found my contour sander quite useful. You have to expect to change a SMALL piece of sand paper pretty often. It's SMALL. I have found mine useful for polishing knife blades I am making,with wet or dry paper. saves my old fingers!!



Thanks for the tip George.  I'll have to dig it out from the bottom of the tool cabinet next time I sharpen a knife.


----------



## Smithdoor

I had one it was  Gisholt 5L weight 44,000 pounds had up grade to power shot to 480 volt 24" foundation, new 32" chuck, tooling and 2,500 miles of shipping Use one time.


----------



## JimDawson

Smithdoor said:


> I had one it was  Gisholt 5L weight 44,000 pounds had up grade to power shot to 480 volt 24" foundation, new 32" chuck, tooling and 2,500 miles of shipping Use one time.




That's an expensive paperweight. :lmao:


----------



## Smithdoor

Did not work as a paperweight it crush the desk  :whiteflag:

I had others that for themes all ever week

9A south bend and 4 J&L turret best tools ever got use for over 30 years
Today I am down to just the 9a

Dave



JimDawson said:


> That's an expensive paperweight. :lmao:


----------



## Downwindtracker2

I  also have a Porter-Cable profile sander, it worked  for me. I used it to sand the some of the tighter corners on the inside of a cedar-strip canoe. But I use the much longer adhesive backed rolls from Lee Valley. I  made a profile with a 2" radius as well. I've used the sander on the barrel channel of gun stocks, too.


----------



## george wilson

Fabrickator: Please note,I said I POLISHED new knife blades with the contour sander. I do not SHARPEN the blades with it. That would not work at all. It would just rip the sand paper.

I have used my sander with wet or dry paper to polish the hollow ground surfaces of knives that I've made. It works real well,and saves a lot of elbow grease. I can shine up a heat treated blade till it's like a mirror with the contour sander,and increasingly finer wet or dry,down to 2000 grit. Use a bit of soapy water or you'll load up the paper very quickly.

This Bowie style knife was polished with the sander. I made it out of D2,which is a lot of work to polish,being a very abrasion resistant steel.

You can also keep the surfaces nice and crisp,without rounding everything off. I don't want surfaces that look buffed to death,and you don't see buffed to death surfaces on antique knives. All is crisp and sharp edged looking.


----------



## railfancwb

The ones I misplace (forever) before using them for the intended purpose. The misplaced ones I do find just after having given up and bought another.


----------



## NoobCanuk

f350ca said:


> Not to break the spirit of the thread but, what do you use to cut cement board. I was gifted 28 4 x 8 sheets of cement siding, it has a wood grain on it, painted white (primer?) Plan on using it to line the blacksmith shop. I made a couple of cuts with a 7 inch metal cutting abrasive wheel in the skill saw, lots of dust and horribly slow. Picked up a masonry one, is it going to be any better?
> 
> Greg
> 
> Will post some of my useless purchases, will just have to think which were the worst.



Hi Greg,
  I have worked a bit with the cement siding just never seen a 4X8 sheet. I normally use the stuff that is approx 16"X12 ft (ish can't remember exact width).  Ive seen 2 different tools to cut that stuff with though.  You can get a specific circular saw blade for that stuff (I think Home Depot may carry them) or I have also use a heavy duty scissor like pneumatic thing to cut it with.  The scissor thing had 2 heavy side pieces with a third one in the center.  It pretty much lasts forever and does a neat job cutting the cement board... just a bit slow but not too bad and not nearly the mess of a circular saw.

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/fib...140203__ALL_PLA-823909&pid=823909&kpid=823909

That was a 2 sec google search but something like that.  The one I used at work had 2 sides and the center shear and it worked fine if I recall correctly.  No matter what the edge trim we had for the cement board had to be cut using circular saw (too thick for the shears).  Only use a circular saw blade if you are desperate... that cement board with dull your blades in a couple cuts as you will notice right away.  The specific blades for cement board will last a lot longer though but they still dull after a day of use.  At work when we cut that stuff the max we got was 3 easy days of cuts with a cement board blade.  

Sorry to ramble but I hope it helps ya.

Curt


----------



## jpfabricator

A cambell hausfeld battery charger from tractor supply. It would turn on, charge for a few seconds then turn off. I smashed it to pieces.
The northern tool brand 115 volt 110 amp mig welder. Not enough power, and really splatterd alot. I sold it on craigslist.
I dont buy royobi products after having a sawsall that lasted 2 months.

Jake Parker


----------



## sk1nner

Ryobi 18 volt cordless drill kit (nicad)  and 4 extra battery's.   I thought that it would be great nto having to mess with cords.  Every time I needed it battery's were dead (hence 4 extras) so I ended up having to keep a battery on the charger all of the time, not good for them.  They never held a charge long enough either.  Oh well back to my good old plug ins that always work and have more power than I need.


----------



## Bill Gruby

sk1nner said:


> Ryobi 18 volt cordless drill kit (nicad)  and 4 extra battery's.   I thought that it would be great nto having to mess with cords.  Every time I needed it battery's were dead (hence 4 extras) so I ended up having to keep a battery on the charger all of the time, not good for them.  They never held a charge long enough either.  Oh well back to my good old plug ins that always work and have more power than I need.



 Not so fast on counting that drill out. One of my next projects is to make a Tapping Machine out of one, replacing the batteries with a 0-24 volt power supply. Stay tuned on that one. :thinking:

 "Billy G"


----------



## george wilson

It is my experience that Ryobi tools are really junk. I won't buy that brand any more.


----------



## 18w

What tools do I regret buying? Most everyone of them that I cheaped out on or didn't stop to think how many of the old timers did things with out all the new trick  must have....make that well marketed... widgets.
Purchase in haste,repent in leisure as they say.

Darrell


----------



## David S

Ok I have been thinking.  Finally it dawned on me.  Back in the 70's I wanted to be able to weld and braze small stuff, but didn't have much $$.  So I bought a Solid Ox welding kit.  Propane tank with Oxygen pellets that you lit and put in a tube to feed the torch.  Oh my what a piece of work.  I did manage to do some good stuff with it, but it soon went to the recycle bin.

David


----------



## GarageGuy

David S said:


> So I bought a Solid Ox welding kit.  Propane tank with Oxygen pellets that you lit and put in a tube to feed the torch.  Oh my what a piece of work.



I had the same setup.  You had to weld or braze fast, because those oxygen pellets didn't last very long.  They were expensive as heck, and the only way we could get them was by mail order.  You could also use Mapp gas instead of propane, but that made it even more expensive.  The aluminum pellet canister was prone to corrosion because of the heat and oxygen rich environment.  Very nearly worthless.  I had forgotten about it!  You're right, that would have been around 1976 maybe.

GG


----------



## extropic

Top of the line Craftsman "Commercial" series router and 7" angle grinder (bought in the mid to late '70s). Both run unreasonably hot in a short time on light work. Relegated to a poor use of storage space these days.

More recently, a Harbor Freight Gear Driven Ring Roller (#36790) is a real POS. Incredibly poor parts quality. The holes don't line up in the front and rear plates (which should be identical parts. That means, among other things, that the rollers aren't parallel causing it to roll spirals rather than rings. I can't imagine that those plates aren't punched complete in one hit on a big press. Apparently they have more than one press working and they produce considerably different parts. Also, the adjustable link that carries the adjustable roller is a plastic part, which distorts in use, contributing to the 'spiral' output. Rated at 3/16 x 1" capacity. I would suggest much less, maybe 1/8 x 1" would be OK. There were chunks of swarf stuck (really stuck) to the gears. The first one I bought had such obvious run-out of the rollers that I bought another, mixed & matched parts for best fit, and returned the unused set (I hope you didn't buy it). The unit is more of a project than a tool.


----------



## silence dogood

The most worthless tool was not the one I bought, but a two legged one that walked into my shop.  My neighbor had an odd assortment of tools that he used to work on his pickup.  He was of the ram-jam brute force type of mechanic.  After he came into my shop, he immediately picked up a micrometer of mine.  I watched him with consternation as he fiddled with the mike and then handed it back to me closed, all the while explaining what a fine machinist that he was.  I then explained to him that no one touches any of my tools without my permission.  I also explained to him that he just proved to me that he was full of it.  Strange, he ended up being upset with me.  Oh well. if one lends and is able to get a tool back from a guy like that, it would end up being worse than useless.  Mark


----------



## atunguyd

silence dogood said:


> The most worthless tool was not the one I bought, but a two legged one that walked into my shop.  My neighbor had an odd assortment of tools that he used to work on his pickup.  He was of the ram-jam brute force type of mechanic.  After he came into my shop, he immediately picked up a micrometer of mine.  I watched him with consternation as he fiddled with the mike and then handed it back to me closed, all the while explaining what a fine machinist that he was.  I then explained to him that no one touches any of my tools without my permission.  I also explained to him that he just proved to me that he was full of it.  Strange, he ended up being upset with me.  Oh well. if one lends and is able to get a tool back from a guy like that, it would end up being worse than useless.  Mark



At the risk of sounding as useless as your neighbor, may I ask the reason why handing the micrometer back closed proved that he is not a machinist? 

Must admit I just leave mine in whatever measurement I last used it in. 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## JimDawson

atunguyd said:


> At the risk of sounding as useless as your neighbor, may I ask the reason why handing the micrometer back closed proved that he is not a machinist?
> 
> Must admit I just leave mine in whatever measurement I last used it in.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk




Good question.  It was explained to me about 50 years ago by my shop teacher.  Always put a 0 reading (like 0 to 1) mic away with it open a bit, (maybe 0.025 or so) so that if the temperature changes, the mic won't expand and spring the mic frame.  There may be other reasons to do it also, but I'm not aware of them.  But every machinist I know leave their mics open a bit.  It just seems to be the right thing to do. Leaving it open further than 0.025 would be fine, like you I normally leave mine where I last measured, but just not 0.


----------



## silence dogood

Thanks Jim,  I rest my case.   Mark


----------



## atunguyd

Thanks guys. So in my case my laziness is a good thing. I have a Starrett mic that I bought from a pan broker (who did not know the real value) and came with calibrated 25mm ring and no case. I have always kept the calibrating ring sandwiched between the mic's jaws so as not to lose it. I may now change that practise. 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## gr8legs

GarageGuy said:


> I have a couple of air chisels that seemed like a good idea 35 years ago, but never really get used.  I bought them for cutting and separating exhaust system parts.  They *will* work for that, but there are many other tools that work better.  Even at that time, an oxy-acetylene cutting torch was faster and easier, and nowadays plasma.
> 
> Both of my air chisels still work like new (I keep them well oiled), but they haven't been used for an actual job in over 30 years.  I smile when I walk through the DIY stores and see new air chisels amongst the other air tools.  I wonder who is buying them and what they are using them for.
> 
> GG



Air chisels are wonderful for reclaiming used masonry bricks - put a regulator in the air line to drop the pressure to 30-50 psi (ymmv) and the chisel will peel off old mortar like string cheese. We got a couple hundred used bricks cheap for a walkway project and the air chisel was a godsend.

Subsequently used one to remove mortar in a chimney to facilitate remove/replace a brick or two. 

Definitely wear your safety glasses AND face shield. Projectiles everywhere!


----------



## mws

JimDawson said:


> Good question.  It was explained to me about 50 years ago by my shop teacher.  Always put a 0 reading (like 0 to 1) mic away with it open a bit, (maybe 0.025 or so) so that if the temperature changes, the mic won't expand and spring the mic frame.  There may be other reasons to do it also, but I'm not aware of them.  But every machinist I know leave their mics open a bit.  It just seems to be the right thing to do. Leaving it open further than 0.025 would be fine, like you I normally leave mine where I last measured, but just not 0.



I learned the same thing from several machinists. I usually leave about .002" the keep crud off the mic faces.  I knew a die maker who had a bunch of oil soaked felt disks, cut with a paper punch, that he left between the faces when storing them for a while. 
Similar techniques apply equally in other areas as well. Like, never back-seat a valve stem completely, always turn it back in a 1/4 turn or they can weld themselves solid. I confirmed that the hard way.  I never (unless I have to leave a set-up overnight) leave any clamps, chucks, collets, tool posts, etc., tight when not in use.  I came home from vacation one summer and found a forgotten R8 collet fused into my mill spindle. I had to dismantle the mill and put the quill into the press to pop it loose! 
Thermal cycling can do amazing things, it is one of the leading cause of long-term failures in Integrated Circuitry. Which is why I don't turn my home PCs off.


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## OldPhart

Man, do I feel old...I've owned a BUNCH of the items mentioned here, especially the '70's Cfartsman power tools.  Got lucky with their table saw though, it has worked for nearly 40 years.

Probably still have the Solidox set buried somewhere in the basement.  Having learned that the pellet is probably sodium or potassium chlorate I just might dig it out someday and give it another go with a larger homemade pellet of same compressed with my HF "12 ton" press.

Got the still-unused air chisel from ~ 35 yrs back, I'll have to try it for stripping mortar off salvaged brick/block-TYVM for that idea!

Gotta stick up for the much-maligned Ryobi cordless tools here.  The P234 impact driver is absolutely the handiest cordless tool I've ever owned, and I have a bunch of 'em.  I have 9/12/14.4v Makitas, old Cfartsmans, HF no-names, old Skil 12v [darn good drill with light battery that runs a long time on 1 charge-probably why they no longer sell 'em] and a couple I can't recall just now.  The little impact driver will drive 3" #10 deck screws into Doug fir with no pilot holes all day long, won't chew up the #2 Phillips heads unless I'm REALLY careless about alignment/pressure, and will do at least 200 of 'em on a single charge of the smallest P100 lithium battery.  

The little 5" cordless saw is a workhorse also but don't expect the P100 battery to give you more than a few 2x4 crosscuts in rapid succession before the overtemp protection kicks in.  The nicad packs [with all their shortcomings like weight/memory/self-discharge, etc] are MUCH better for a heavy sustained draw.  

I can reasonably expect to cut  30-60 lineal feet of 1/2" plywood or probably the same number of 2x4's on one charge of a well-maintained nicad.  Wouldn't work for a professional framer but for an old DIY guy like me the hassle of keeping a couple of extra batteries in the 6-slot smart charger is not nearly as great as mucking about with extension cords or a generator if I'm building something in the back 40.

The cordless nailer ZRP320 [now replaced by the P854/ZRP854] is also a very handy gadget for installing panelling or T&G cedar siding.  Takes awhile to learn how to hold it for consistent strikes which don't require setting the brad heads flush but once again, VERY handy for sites with no power and small jobs for which dragging out the compressor, hose and extension cord is time-consuming.

The P530 rotary tool is my second-favorite Ryobi tool after the impact driver.  Great for switch box/outlet cutouts, etc.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread but Ryobi DOES make some good tools now and the universal battery system helps a lot in reducing the number of chargers and batteries needed to keep a fleet of tools running.  Yes, the batteries are not wonderful and aren't of pro quality, but they are not priced like a Milwaukee or Bosch, either...just my $0.02...


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## sk1nner

I am in no way saying ryobi makes only junk tools.  I just had no luck on having a charged battery when I needed it and have it last.  All I was saying is that for my money I would rather deal with a cord and have all of the power I need.  I do see the usefulness of cordless,  but for my particular situation they are not a good fit, wish they were though.


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## rcaffin

Chinese drill bits: some of them had tips which were ground off-centre, so they all (reliably) drilled about 0.3 mm oversize - until the tips broke through at the other side. They got relegated to woodwork.

Chinese cup-head or allen bolts, on various bits of equipment. Apparently made from mild steel. I found if I replaced them immediately, the rest of the equipment was often OK.

Chinese allen keys. Mostly they seem to be made from mild steel as well. Lean on one and it burrs around in the socket. Lean on a Bondhus or Unbrako, and something ELSE gives. (Hopefully the stiction on the thread.)

and just to prove I am not too biased:
Nice looking German-branded wood-working square - which is out by about 0.5 degrees.

Cheers
Roger


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## bpratl

rcaffin said:


> *Chinese drill bits*: some of them had tips which were ground off-centre, so they all (reliably) drilled about 0.3 mm oversize - until the tips broke through at the other side. They got relegated to woodwork.
> *Chinese cup-head or allen bolts*, on various bits of equipment. Apparently made from mild steel. I found if I replaced them immediately, the rest of the equipment was often OK.
> *Chinese allen keys*. Mostly they seem to be made from mild steel as well. Lean on one and it burrs around in the socket. Lean on a Bondhus or Unbrako, and something ELSE gives. (Hopefully the stiction on the thread.)
> Roger


I agree 150%, after spending many hours getting rid of the wobblers and replacing them with good old USA ones, from a master Letter/Number set. I now have too many woodworking bits now. Bob


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## 4GSR

Change the subject a little,

Bought a couple of taps that were mislabeled as "ACME taps".  Turned out to be ancient "Square" thread taps.  One of the old taps has a date of "4-8-19" almost 100 years old!  It's also marked " C F SCREW TAPER" Very good chance they came from a old lathe manufacture.  Third one is marked "1 ACME 8 by 3/8 L".  It's a three start thread with .375" lead!  The only place I've seen a three start thread like this one used was on the cross rail on a small planer I use to have and it was a "square' thread form.

Anyways, there are useless to me.  Will make more wall decorations for the shop!


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## timvercoe

brav65 said:


> First off, I would not say that too loud around here... I don't think I have ever bought a tool that I regretted buying.  As mentioned above every tool has a purpose, it just may not be the one that it was originally  purchased for.  I even like cheap tools, that way I don't feel bad when I hack it up to make it into a tool that I need.  I also like having tools that I can "loan" out and not worry about ever getting it back.  Being the guy who has all the tools means that friends expect that you can loan them everything.  The problem with that is I make my money with my tools and can't afford to have a knuckle head friend ruin a tool because they don't know what they are doing.



I tel em' sure you can borrow it but it comes with an operator, 88 per hr....

Tim


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## EmilioG

I read that brown and sharpe hole gages were not well made. That the set was horrible, very springy and loose.
I was very surprised to hear this. B&S usually make quality tools.


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## RJSakowski

I bought a house brand 4" angle grinder from a local building & supply. It lasted about 5 minutes.  Since then I am leery about buying cheap tool with an electric motor.  
I used to buy Craftsman hand tools in the sixties and seventies when they had an unconditional lifetime guarantee.  The 3" aluminum C clamps used to break with disgusting regularity and I would take the back for replacements.  One time the clerk said "how are we going to make a profit if you keep returning them?"  I "said make a better clamp".  I made a deal with them; rather than get new aluminum clamps, I said I would take the less expensive cast iron clamps.  I still have those cast iron clamps.
BTW, HF hammers usually don't go too far wrong.  And I have quite a few of their $5.00 multimeters.  Free right now with any purchase.  I throw them in my tool boxes, the car, the boat, etc.  At that price, I consider them disposables.


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## railfancwb

This may not be an exact fit for the thread, but anyway...

HF sells three price levels of twist drill bits. Low end is identified as high speed steel. The middle is noted as high speed steel with TiN coating. The third is called cobalt steel. Among other ways these are available is sets - 1 to 60, letter drills, and 1/16" to 1/2" (by 64ths I think). Pricing is roughly 3 for cobalt, 2 for TiN, and 1 for HHS - so a cobalt set is about $100. 

Anyone use HF bits? If so, how do they hold up when drilling steel? Especially the cobalt?

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rcaffin

Sets of drills are almost always junk stuff, unless they are a really good brand.
Locally made drill bits have this terrible habit of being slightly bent after heat treatment. Put them in a good chuck and the tip wobbles! Seriously.

These days I will only buy Dormer drill bits. And I prefer the stub drills to the jobber drills anyhow, especially in a CNC.

Cheers
Roger


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## 4GSR

EmilioG said:


> I read that brown and sharpe hole gages were not well made. That the set was horrible, very springy and loose.
> I was very surprised to hear this. B&S usually make quality tools.



Bought a set of B & S adjustable parallels back around 1980.  What a POS they were.  They were not parallel, most were out about.0015".  They were not ground flat, bowed badly.  Gave them to my little brother a few years later.


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## markknx

A metric Crescent wrench. About useless I mostly work on imperial stuff Didn't fit any thing. made a good hammer though.


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## EmilioG

I won't buy new from a lot of manufacturers. B&S being one.  B&S made quality tools years ago,
where you see the old logo, made in Providence, RI. LBS.  Go with vintage where you can/


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## RJSakowski

GarageGuy said:


> I had the same setup.  You had to weld or braze fast, because those oxygen pellets didn't last very long.  They were expensive as heck, and the only way we could get them was by mail order.  You could also use Mapp gas instead of propane, but that made it even more expensive.  The aluminum pellet canister was prone to corrosion because of the heat and oxygen rich environment.  Very nearly worthless.  I had forgotten about it!  You're right, that would have been around 1976 maybe.
> 
> GG


I had two setups like that.  One used a 14 oz. oxygen cylinder and propane cylinder.  I bought that to do an emergency repair on an outboard motor when I was on an up north fishing trip.  The second one was the SolidOx torch that was given to me by my ex father-in-law.  I gave up on the 14 oz.oxygen cylinder.  I had a larger medical oxygen tank which was pressure tested for 2500 psi working.  I made an adapter that allowed me to charge the tank from my larger oxygen tank and made a nice portable stand for it.  I use MAPP gas instead of propane.  It is handy to take out to remote areas where I don't feel like lugging the large tanks.  I used it to weld a splashwell made of 16 g. aluminum for one of my boats once.


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## markknx

I started my welding career on one of those solid ox torches. I got one as a kid about 14-15 sheet metal was all it was good for I think I got new pellets from sears. yes that far back I knew I wanted to work metal.
Mark


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## RJSakowski

markknx said:


> I started my welding career on one of those solid ox torches. I got one as a kid about 14-15 sheet metal was all it was good for I think I got new pellets from sears. yes that far back I knew I wanted to work metal.
> Mark


It (the torch) actually worked quite for aluminum.  Its limited capacity made it much harder to create a pool of molten aluminum.  Never actually used the SolidOx pellets though.


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## BXPete

Cheaper brand name tools from "big box" hardware stores... had a particularly bad run with an Ozito keyless church power drill, would never maintain a tight grip on the drill bit and a GMC jigsaw... absolutely hopeless, wouldn't naintain a straight cut and never anywhere near "square" either.

I replaced both with (and tend to stick to) Makita power tools... have had a good run from every one I have owned.

My lesson... buy quality not cheap.


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## core-oil

My pals (Generous well meaning souls) upon occasions buy me these crap, cheap digital callipers sold at street markets & cheap tool stores, They are far eastern rubbish, When they are away after I have thanked them most profusely, I fire them straight into the rubbish bin! They are useless, You never get the same reading twice on the same component, give me my Brown & Sharp etc vernier scale instruments + good British similar tools of about thirty years ago any day,  Quality now gone for ever


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## Bill C.

Those cheap ones were not made of plastic were they?  I thought I was seeing things when I saw them.  I assumed they were for beginner's.


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## 4GSR

I have had very good luck with a Chinese brand of digital calipers called "SHAHE".  They are a higher end precision tool manufacture.
Here is a link to their listing on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-SHAHE-3...039?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a91aaad8f


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## taycat

chopsaw for wood was away from home and needed to help mate with job.
went in and got took it back to his place 1st piece of wood we tried cutting snapped end spindle of motor.
was only pine we were cutting.


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## David S

Bill C. said:


> Those cheap ones were not made of plastic were they?  I thought I was seeing things when I saw them.  I assumed they were for beginner's.



Oh no those plastic calipers were for our mechanical designers at work.  After having them weld a few good calipers when they tried to measure the length of fully charged Nicd cells, I gave them the plastic ones.

David


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## Chuck Torman

I purchased a Rigid brand 14" band saw from Home Depot some years ago, I was working out of town at the time and the saw sat idle in my basement for over a year before I had an opportunity to use it. The blade guides (entire guide assembly) was made from a very inferior cast pot metal, pressure from even the tiny thumb screws used to tighten the guides would break the housings. I thought perhaps I had gotten a bad run and ordered new replacement parts, but the new replacements were just as bad as the original. Short story is, I punish with my dollars (or lack thereof) I will never buy a Rigid product again and I also purchase very little from Home Depot as a result.
I don't mind buying something that requires a tune up as long as the purchase price rewards my efforts, but this saw was pure JUNK.
Thanks
Chuck


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## coolidge

Erwin step drill, the thing has become dull and useless after drilling only a few holes in sheet metal.


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## hman

Chuck Torman said:


> Short story is, I punish with my dollars (or lack thereof) I will never buy a Rigid product again and I also purchase very little from Home Depot as a result.
> I don't mind buying something that requires a tune up as long as the purchase price rewards my efforts, but this saw was pure JUNK.
> Thanks
> Chuck


Say it ain't so, Chuck!  I used to think a lot of Ridgid!!!  
Durn ... sounds like a large number of what used to be great names keeps falling down the sewer.  Who can you go to now?


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## Chuck Torman

hman said:


> Say it ain't so, Chuck!  I used to think a lot of Ridgid!!!
> Durn ... sounds like a large number of what used to be great names keeps falling down the sewer.  Who can you go to now?



Sorry to say it John, but yes a lot of previously respectable U. S. companies have gone to China to drink from the profit well. Some probably had to in order to survive, others simply in order to temporarily boost their bottom line. I am afraid as consumers we are just as guilty. No easy answer "buyer beware". (Oh, sorry for the misspelling "Ridgid not Rigid")


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## rcaffin

> I purchased a Rigid brand 14" band saw from Home Depot some years ago,
> The blade guides (entire guide assembly) was made from a very inferior cast pot metal,


Funny - I bought an admittedly 'small cheap' Chinese band saw - but it has 6 ball races for the blade guide. The folded metal support frame was wonky and I had to fix that, but the engineered bits are OK.

Ah - but I no longer buy cheap bandsaw blades from our local equivalent of HD. I buy good bi-metal blades from a specialist. Boy, do they last a long time in comparison.

Cheers
Roger


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## great white

Don't think I've ever had "tool regret".

Even the cheap ones that often break usually get repurposed or reworked into something useful for me.

Wait, maybe the " Wagner power painter". Never have gotten that to work properly....


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## Restorer

Harbor Freight Torq's set.  First use the largest one twisted up like the spirals on a barber pole.
Useless!
Restorer


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## pebbleworm

I got a lot of use out of my Wagner Power painter!  Howled like a banshee but between it an low temperature latex paint I was able to paint a new picket fence, the back of the house, shoot a coat of paint all over the basement and seal coat the deck.  I think it is a good and useful tool.


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## 2volts

There's no such thing as a worthless tool if all else fails it can always be used as a bad example.


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## Johnwright

EmilioG said:


> I've bought a lot of tools over the years and I have bought a few that I regret buying?
> Like the universal center punch. What a waste.  What tools have you purchased that later
> on you regretted and maybe tossed or worse. (see Tubalcain hammering a drill point grinder!)
> I'd like to avoid bad tools in the future, and gimmicky tools that are just unnecessary.  You don't have to
> name names but what are some tools that should be avoided? Thanks



Sorta in the same vein, but maybe too late.  I just burned up a cheap battery powered drill, went down to Lowes and saw that they were pushing the new Dewalt 20 volt "Max" drills.  Was on sale for $99 and that included 2 batteries.  I could not find any reviews online at the time, so I went home with one.  The batteries are Lithium Ion type but are rather slim in design.  I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just different from the old 18V Nicads.  Any reviews out there yet?


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## markknx

John,
I do not have that drill But I will say I love the new Lithium battery, seemed like before I always had  a battery in the charger. now they spend more time in the tools.
Mark


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## core-oil

Bill C. said:


> Those cheap ones were not made of plastic were they?  I thought I was seeing things when I saw them.  I assumed they were for beginner's.


Got it in one Bill - They are either plastic or a rubbish alloy which is neither stable nor accurately made, I wish I could have met the old boys who made my ancient Brown & Sharp instruments and my equal quality British ones,


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## AR1911

I bought one of those little tramming devices to hold your DTI. It was about $25 from CDCO. 
Can't find it online, so maybe it died off, as it should.
It was a wobbly POS.


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## rdhem2

SORRY!  I am too embarrassed to admit some of the *STUPID* things I bought that looked so good in the store.


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## mike837go

2-stroke powered anything!
Weed whackers, chain saws, leaf blowers, drink mixers, outboard motors.

Those things hate me. 1 season of almost decent usage. The next year (after replacing the spark plug AND mixing up a fresh batch of fuel) manage to get a frustrating use or two out of it.

Give me 120 or 240 VAC or 4-stroke (preferably, Diesel). Anything less is not worth the trouble.

Imagine the damage one could do with a Diesel-powered chain saw?


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## TomS

Recently bought a Harbor Freight 3/16" air/hydraulic rivet gun.  Wouldn't/couldn't pull the stud on a 1/8" aluminum pop rivet.  Not to mention that it blew oil everywhere.  Spent 30 minutes cleaning up the oil mess.  Went back to using my hand operated rivet gun and got the job done.  Fortunately they refunded my money.

Tom S


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## Bill Gruby

Harbor Freight Rivet Gun aka "Boomerang" They sell it to you, you take it home, it doesn't work and you take it back. See not so worthless.

 "Billy G"


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## hman

Shucks, Bill ... maybe we should rename this thread "Boomerang tools."  I absolutely LOVE that descriptive phrase!


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## Ulma Doctor

mike837go said:


> 2-stroke powered anything!
> Weed whackers, chain saws, leaf blowers, drink mixers, outboard motors.
> 
> Those things hate me. 1 season of almost decent usage. The next year (after replacing the spark plug AND mixing up a fresh batch of fuel) manage to get a frustrating use or two out of it.
> 
> Give me 120 or 240 VAC or 4-stroke (preferably, Diesel). Anything less is not worth the trouble.
> 
> Imagine the damage one could do with a Diesel-powered chain saw?




Well, that gets a man to thinking...
a Detroit 8V92 or better yet, 3408 Cat


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## LathemanGoody

Lets see a tile saw that was used once, a 3/4 drive ratchet & socket set from HF and a USA ratchet and breaker bar from Craftsman those were really expensive. I only acquired another set of USA made 3/4 drive ratchets from a yard sale for a few pennies.  HF plastic welder trashed it after 2 uses, HF stick welder,  recycled the welder since it was given to me.  The old HF wrenches are junk but i'll be honest they make awesome platforms for things like lathe chuck wrench holders when configured correctly and even better spanner wrenches. A drill driven water pump from HF tossed that 3 weeks ago.

I don't often regret buying tools when I do they either get returned, tossed, or turned into something else.   Like the lawnmower deck in my avatar, it got turned in a movable base for a foundry furnace-that I dont have time to melt in.


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