# Battling rust - Helpful hints.



## middle.road (Aug 10, 2014)

What say we start a helpful hints thread.

I've got a 24'x24' detached garage that is my shop. I have never battled rust and corrosion like I've had to since we moved here a year and a half ago.
This is my third location in TN in 15 years and I've never had this amount of rust and problems.
From machinery to tooling, seems like every time I turn around another piece has rust on it.
I'm wondering what tips and tricks other use to keep this nemesis at bay.

Thanks,
_Dan


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## Brain Coral (Aug 10, 2014)

Hello Dan,

What differences from the other shops can you list that might help find a solution ?

Is the area more humid, were the other shops in a basement or insulated buildings and is this one insulated ?

It may be that when the garage slab was poured, no poly was placed on the ground before pouring. If the ground is damp beneath, then the moisture will migrate up and into the shop. I once stored some of my gear at my brother's garage with similar problems. I'm not a big fan of painted floors, but you might find quite a difference if you painted the floor with a good epoxy paint. You could add some grit if you wanted to make it less slippery. I believe that you have to "etch" the concrete with muriatic acid before painting.

In addition, I would insulate the walls and ceiling including poly on the warm side and cover with your material of choice.... assuming that this hasn't been done already.

Cheers... 

Brian


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## pineyfolks (Aug 10, 2014)

The best thing I did was put a ceiling fan in. Circulating the air seems to help with the condensation  in the spring. I use CLP spray lube on all the small stuff.


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## Shadowdog500 (Aug 10, 2014)

I'm assuming this is an un heated building like mine.

+1 on the floor.  If there is no Polly under the concrete, the floor could wick moisture into the building.  If it is a metal building without insulation on the walls and ceiling, the walls and ceiling  will sweat from the heating and cooling and will make it extremely humid. If the building can't breathe with soffitand or ridge vents it can stay humid in the building.  If it is lower than the surrounding area, water will be funneled toward the building.    I have a friend who made all 4 of these mistakes and everything rusts up quickly in his building.   On some mornings everything is literally coated with a dew in his building.  On another forum a few years ago a guy built his garage in an area that became a stream during a good rain, and didn't realize it until after he was more than 1/2 way done, so stuff like this does happen.  Heck, last week I was tent camping and saw a couple people set up camp in a drainage ditch, wonder if they were surprised their camp was flooded  when the rain came? 

To test the floor I read that you can tape a plastic tarp, or trash bag on the floor to see how much moisture collects under it. Look it up.  If it wicks a lot of moisture you could probably seal the surface.    If it don't have insulation, add some to keep the walls from sweating. 
.

 Whenever you get a dry day, open everything up and let the building dry out. My building don't have rust problems, but I do this on dry days, especially after a nor'easter when It rains heavy for days 

hope this helps.

chris


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## chip_slinger (Aug 10, 2014)

Seal the concrete floor to mitigate water coming up through the floor. 

Insulate the walls and ceiling.

Dehumidify! Use two household dehumidifiers for a shop that size, or use an air conditioner in the summer and dehumidifiers in the winter.


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## bpratl (Aug 10, 2014)

chip_slinger said:


> Seal the concrete floor to mitigate water coming up through the floor.
> 
> Insulate the walls and ceiling.
> 
> Dehumidify! Use two household dehumidifiers for a shop that size, or use an air conditioner in the summer and dehumidifiers in the winter.



+++ all the above are required, I extract ~1 gal of water/day during the spring and summer months in Gloucester, MA. My shop is in the back of my garage, above ground on 3 walls and 2 feet below ground on one wall.  No more RUST after  doing the above.


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## JimDawson (Aug 10, 2014)

I looked up your area on Google maps, and I think I see why you are having a rust problem.  I noticed a large Alcoa aluminum smelter close by.  Even if the smelter is shut down, the combination of high humidity and the fluoride compounds associated with the smelter that are in the surrounding environment could be causing the bulk of your problem.  If there is a coal fired power plant in your area that would also contribute to the problem.  If you are pretty much downwind of the these types of facilities, I can see where it could be a problem.

The best thing you can do is dry the shop as best you can, a dehumidifier and/or air conditioning is the best bet.  Insulate the walls, and seal the floor as others have suggested.  Keep the exposed surfaces protected with some type of spray lube, maybe WD-40.

Good luck


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## ScrapMetal (Aug 10, 2014)

My shop is in a detached garage next to my office building.  I have an HVAC unit installed in the space (why is a long story but it was real convenient for me).  I started to have terrible rust issues even though it is kept at a fairly constant temperature throughout the year.  My solution was to go to Lowes and buy the largest de-humidifier they had at the time.  It runs almost constantly but I haven't had any issues with rust since.  BTW - Make sure you get one that has a hose to continually purge the condensation as trying to keep the "little bucket" empty would be maddening.  I just run the "hose" under the garage door out in to the parking lot.




Old pic of when I just got the mill moved in.

-Ron


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## onetrack (Aug 10, 2014)

middle.road said:


> What say we start a helpful hints thread.
> 
> I've got a 24'x24' detached garage that is my shop. I have never battled rust and corrosion like I've had to since we moved here a year and a half ago.
> This is my third location in TN in 15 years and I've never had this amount of rust and problems.
> ...



*Middle.road* - An old trick to prevent rust on tools in confined spaces such as storage cupboards, big toolboxes, and other compartment areas, is to leave an old-style filament globe on, in the compartment, full time. 
The heat from the filament keeps the temperature up above dew point and totally eliminates rust on tools (provided you keep them lightly oiled, of course).
The only cure for your shop is some kind of modest heating on at all times when the air temperature drops below the dew point.

Another factor to be aware of is open containers of corrosive liquids - such as hydochloric acid (muriatic acid) left inside the shop.
Even some unlikely-looking liquids and products can give off corrosive fumes that wreak damage inside a shop.

A buddy in KS complained about all his tools going rusty in his new shop and I told him to go look for corrosive fume sources.
He found a small container of hydrochloric acid he'd used for brick-cleaning, partly open, in a cupboard. 
The acid fumes had corroded everything in the shop that had an exposed metal surface. He got rid of the container and had no more problems.


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## Cobra (Aug 10, 2014)

There is certainly a need for reduction in humidity but even with that I was seeing rust on tables and parts.  I started using polycrystalline wax from Lee Valley. Stopped all of the rust spots.


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## chuckorlando (Aug 10, 2014)

I use fluid film http://www.theruststore.com/Fluid-Film-C67.aspx


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## middle.road (Aug 11, 2014)

+1 about the slab. Just went out and moved some rubber backed carpet squares I have in front of a bench. Dampness underneath.
And guess which way the lot slopes... 
I should have epoxied it before we moved in. Trying to paint it now would require some serious shuffling - shop is packed.
Shuffle to one side, paint, let dry, shuffle to other side - repeat. Sounds like a heck of a recipe.

All the walls and the ceiling are insulated. But how much you want to bet that there is no poly or any type of barrier.
I've got a 30" fan mounted up in one corner but I guess I'll have to consider a dehumidifier. Gads I hate the cost of running those.
A buddy whose in the HVAC biz mentioned putting in a heat pump system if he runs across a good used one.
My other shops here in TN were a basement, garage, garage, and then this garage. The other two were attached though.

And acids or corrosives I keep out in the back shed. 

Pulled out my mill vise yesterday, it's been sitting in a milk crate oiled and wrapped in wax paper. Didn't work, took a hour or so to clean it up.
I have (3) cans of this on hand, been in my stock for years, I finally tried it on the vise. Wow - it does smell up a place.


	

		
			
		

		
	
    I guess I'll start coating everything that's susceptible. Especially tools I don't use frequently. What a PITA.

Thanks,
_Dan


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## KevinD (Aug 11, 2014)

onetrack said:


> *Middle.road* - An old trick to prevent rust on tools in confined spaces such as storage cupboards, big toolboxes, and other compartment areas, is to leave an old-style filament globe on, in the compartment, full time.
> The heat from the filament keeps the temperature up above dew point and totally eliminates rust on tools (provided you keep them lightly oiled, of course).
> The only cure for your shop is some kind of modest heating on at all times when the air temperature drops below the dew point.



Better yet are desk top coffee cup warmers from your corner drug store.  They're 25 W resistance heaters and don't burn out like light bulbs.  I've had one in my welding rod/paint refrigerator and two in my gun safe for more than ten years each.

Kevin


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## Baldy (Aug 11, 2014)

middle.road said:


> +1 about the slab. Just went out and moved some rubber backed carpet squares I have in front of a bench. Dampness underneath.
> And guess which way the lot slopes...
> I should have epoxied it before we moved in. Trying to paint it now would require some serious shuffling - shop is packed.
> Shuffle to one side, paint, let dry, shuffle to other side - repeat. Sounds like a heck of a recipe.
> ...



---------------------------------

Dan

I endorse the recommendation to get a dehumidifier. My shop is 1000 sq ft, well insulated, on a concrete floor that does have a plastic moisture barrier, air conditioned with an exterior drain. Even with these properties the shop is still humid but I don't have a rust problem.
I recently added a SPT SD-31E dehumidifier sold by Amazon (about $200) and am very happy with it. I am surprised by how much water it collects---about 1/2 gallon per 10 hr day when set to hold at 40% humidity.

Jerry in San Antonio


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## mhomer (Aug 18, 2014)

I have to second the fan someone stated earlier. the previous owner of my house built a rather shoddy 36X36 steel building that I am still working out of for the next few years. With the combination of a leaking ceiling, floors that weep moisture when it rains, no insulation and being a few hundred yards from a large lake I fight rust continually. The biggest change in rust prevention I have made is using CorrosionX on everything and a 36" fan that runs continuously. I have found that the fan moving air keeps large heat sinks like machines from collecting moisture like a soda can and a layer of rust prevention solution gives me the little extra I need.


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## Mark in Indiana (Aug 18, 2014)

Humidity is a problem for my shop. 
Bare metal details on the machinists / mechanics vises and the milling machine get a film of oil regularly. 
Bare metal details on the woodworking equipment get a coat of furniture paste wax during the summer and. An oil film during the winter when I store them for the winter season.
Tools in the cabinets get a regular film of oil if practical. Also, I keep desicant bags with the tools and I've made wood boxes for the micrometers.

It isn't as much work as it sounds.  Hope my comments help you out.


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## middle.road (Dec 26, 2015)

With good weather comes the old foe. *GADS* Not the worst thing in the world, actually it's pretty dang trivial, but
frustrating though. I put ISO32 on the mill back in June. I should have broke out the Slide.
Had some spare time today and wanted to putz around on the mill. Oh well there is always tomorrow.


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## TOOLMASTER (Dec 26, 2015)

LPS 3 is good for spaying on machines that sit unused for some time


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## juiceclone (Dec 27, 2015)

Another vote for a dehumidifier .  That was the ONLY thing that stopped the rusting here in S Florida.  It's the temp changes and the metal tools/machines retaining cold/heat that causes moisture to condense on them. Sometimes in the morning, I could see the individual dots of rust on parts where water had formed.


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## middle.road (Dec 27, 2015)

Thats what I'll have to bite the bullet and get. Just trying to avoid the extra electrical costs for running it.
I must have seen (6) or (8) at estate sales this season and didn't grab one.
I had been coating stuff with Slide, but it smells so bad.
During the first warm spell a couple of weeks back I kept the garage closed. 
It was like 10° or 15° cooler in the shop than outside. Doesn't appear to have help.
Then we had two days straight of rain over Christmas...


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## Screen Guy (Dec 31, 2015)

I keep my machines in a garage where temperature changes cause condensation.  I cover the machines with a bucket of  Damp Rid  under the cover then use a digital lamp timer to run small fans, 15 minutes on, 1/2hr off.  Moving air is a major help in stopping condensation.  Also use a cosmolene like spray on ways and other bare metal.


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## middle.road (Jan 3, 2016)

Here might be a interesting discovery. I've got several older cans of Chrome Polish from estate sale pick ups and such.
I pasted some on the base of the swivel vise for the BP.  I had coated it with oil and covered it with a towel but it still
rusted. So I let the polish dry and then rubbed it off with a fine scotch brite. Decent results with a minimum of 
elbow grease. I was looking at the cans trying to figure out what's in them and nothing was listed. I got a bit whoosey 
from the fumes so I was wondering what it might me... Need to go hit the chuck on the lathes and the hand wheels on
the Logan next.


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## Terrywerm (Jan 3, 2016)

I've been using plain old Minwax finishing wax on the metal surfaces for a long time. Granted, oil will slowly take off the wax, but I simply reapply it a couple of times per year. Not a big deal.  Ways are coated in way oil, but the table saw top, mill table, drill press table and column, lathe chucks, and the unpainted areas of the 'table' on the Keller saw all get an occasional wax coating. I rub it on, coating the surface completely, then leave it sit for a while to allow the solvents to evaporate. Then I go back and wipe off the excess. I only do this with the garage door open, as exposure to the solvent fumes can have adverse effects on your nervous system.

I read somewhere that a good wax coating can be made from bees wax and mineral oil. Applied the same way as paste wax or chrome polish. Pour some mineral oil into a pan and warm it gently on the stove. Using a double boiler might not be a bad idea here to keep from overheating things.  Then add bees wax in small pieces totalling 1/4 to 1/3 the volume of the oil. Mix thoroughly and pour into a can that you can seal up and allow it to cool. Use the same was as any paste wax.


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## middle.road (Jan 3, 2016)

Yeah, I've started using the minwax on everything. This past week I did every surface on the BP with it.
Gonna have to watch now that the garage is closed up. Later this week it might warm up a bit.
I have this hope of one day getting ahead of the rust.


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