# Getting Off of the Grid



## OakRidgeGuy (Oct 23, 2012)

I was just thinking, I am planning in the future to buy some property, something that has a good  crick or stream on it.. most around here are cricks.. (creeks for you other folks).. and just being curious.. what would it take to run a mill and a lathe off of the electrical grid? 

Doc


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## xalky (Oct 23, 2012)

Probably around 5000 watts at full capacity. ..maybe less.


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## Tony Wells (Oct 23, 2012)

A good book to hunt down, if you don't already own a copy, is "Back to Basics". It's a great resource for planning what you are considering. It looks at things like people did back before modernization as we know it came along. Lots of how to from days gone by. There is a section about calculating the energy available from a dammed up stream, sometimes to turn a waterwheel. If you are wanting to get off the grid, I highly recommend the book.

PS, not you cannot have mine. ;-)


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## Rbeckett (Oct 23, 2012)

I would think that a properly engineered turbine in a creek could easilly produce 5KW. the issue that will arise is what you will do with any excess.  Will the local utility buy it or discount any electricity you draw from the grid?  Storage in high capacity deep cycle cells is cumbersome and difficult to properly maintain, so watch out for the unseen expenses and pitfalls from that too.  I found an old perkins diesel with a 25 KW alternator and can run it when the storms knock out the power in Fla.  Hurricane season was pretty mild this year for us, but others have suffered greatly, so plan ahead if at all possible.
Bob


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## jgedde (Oct 23, 2012)

Tony Wells said:


> A good book to hunt down, if you don't already own a copy, is "Back to Basics". It's a great resource for planning what you are considering. It looks at things like people did back before modernization as we know it came along. Lots of how to from days gone by. There is a section about calculating the energy available from a dammed up stream, sometimes to turn a waterwheel. If you are wanting to get off the grid, I highly recommend the book.
> 
> PS, not you cannot have mine. ;-)



Nor mine...  I believe it was published by Reader's Digest.  

John


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## xalky (Oct 23, 2012)

With creeks for water power, your gonna want as much drop as you can get for head pressure and also a way to dam up at the top of the creek for reserve capacity especially important during dryer times. That would be a great project to design and build a water turbine powered generator.  So when your in the market for property, keep those things in mind. Head pressure is power.


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## Rbeckett (Oct 23, 2012)

Tony or John,
Could you look in the flap of that book and get the ISBN Number?  Then it will be a very simple matter to look on Ebay, Amazon and book seller sites all over very quickly.  I used that method to get a copy of Axelsons "How to Make PC Boards" for about 1/3 of retail.  Definately makes the search much easier and shows fewer wrong picks at the same time too.  Thanks
Bob


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## OakRidgeGuy (Oct 23, 2012)

Tony, 

Having that book would be great... and yes, I agree, having the number would indeed help in the search for the book... Not that I don't like researching for something.. but sometimes.. with google and all, when you type something into the search bar, you never get the results of what your looking for.. just links to sites that want to sell you something. I miss the "internet" of old, when you were really able to do research and find good useful information.. it was like walking into a great libarary.. now a days it is a mobile mall of sorts.. 

Yes, I would be very interested in getting off of the grid.. I believe that the local utilities around will either buy the excess or credit.. more than likely credit back.. 

This reminds me. There is another series of books that would be good to gather as well.. and that would be the Foxfire Series. 
I had forgotten all about those books till just a minute ago when responding to the thread.. 

Doc


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## xalky (Oct 23, 2012)

Rbeckett said:


> Tony or John,
> Could you look in the flap of that book and get the ISBN Number?  Then it will be a very simple matter to look on Ebay, Amazon and book seller sites all over very quickly.  I used that method to get a copy of Axelsons "How to Make PC Boards" for about 1/3 of retail.  Definately makes the search much easier and shows fewer wrong picks at the same time too.  Thanks
> Bob


+1 )


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## OakRidgeGuy (Oct 23, 2012)

Tony, 

Is this the book your talking about? 

http://www.amazon.com/Back-Basics-Complete-Traditional-Skills/dp/1602392331

Doc


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## jocat54 (Oct 23, 2012)

Very interesting thread. 
We were on the Snake River a while back on one of the jet boat trips and one of the captains had a place up the canyon and was using a water turbine to run 15kw with a 6"head pipe, The flow of the little creek wasn't much but he had enough drop to get his head pressure thru the 6" pipe. Very neat install and didn't look at all complicated.
Ahyhoo ever since then I have been giving a lot of thought to a system. Nothing in the plans yet though.
I think I will be looking for that book also.



Edit: Doing a quick search.....Barnes and Noble has a 3rd edtion for like $17 and Amazon shows a 2nd edition for $32. There were more.


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## OakRidgeGuy (Oct 23, 2012)

Oh, I was doing some reading last night, if I remember right, I believe that the fall needs to be about 18 feet for best results.. I thought about a turbine.. But my first thoughts were a water wheel.


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## OakRidgeGuy (Oct 23, 2012)

From what I understand, for your battery dump, either marine or L-88 batteries are best for holding the charge. 

Doc


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## xalky (Oct 23, 2012)

jocat54 said:


> Very interesting thread.
> We were on the Snake River a while back on one of the jet boat trips and one of the captains had a place up the canyon and was using a water turbine to run 15kw with a 6"head pipe, The flow of the little creek wasn't much but he had enough drop to get his head pressure thru the 6" pipe. Very neat install and didn't look at all complicated.
> Ahyhoo ever since then I have been giving a lot of thought to a system. Nothing in the plans yet though.
> I think I will be looking for that book also.


15 kw, thats pretty darn plenty to do just about anything you'd want to do, even run a 250 amp mig welder. How much more could you possibly need.


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## xalky (Oct 23, 2012)

OakRidgeGuy said:


> From what I understand, for your battery dump, either marine or L-88 batteries are best for holding the charge.
> 
> Doc


 Or build a holding pond at the top of the stream, cheaper and easier. Low tech storage.


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## jocat54 (Oct 23, 2012)

xalky said:


> 15 kw, thats pretty darn plenty to do just about anything you'd want to do, even run a 250 amp mig welder. How much more could you possibly need.




Not much you couldn't do with it)
His set up was top notch.


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## Tony Wells (Oct 23, 2012)

That does appear to be the same book, although I have I believe the first edition. I will check in the morning for the ISBN number.

This is the cover on mine:

http://www.amazon.com/Back-Basics-Editors-Readers-Digest/dp/0895770865

It makes for great reading if nothing else. Home canning? Sure. How to choose and lay out your farm? Sure. Basic blacksmithing? Sure. Tons of old tech. Not medieval or dark ages, but let's say early Americana 19th century through early 20th......with much plenty still useful.


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## OakRidgeGuy (Oct 23, 2012)

Got it bookmarked.. thanks for that.. 

What got me to thinking about all of this is the fact of looking at all of these model engines that I see these guys making.. so, I am thinking, why wouldn't that be good enough to spin the alternator to generate the off grid electricity.. Hydro is then where I was led off into. So yes, I will find a plot of land out in the country here in east Tenn.. that has the right lay of land with a stream or creek on it.. and will go from there. Where I live at here, I am right smack between two TVA steam generating plants. I have a shooting friend that helped do some of designing of the Bull Run TVA plant. So I do hope that he will give me some insight the next time I see him.. 

Doc


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## OakRidgeGuy (Oct 24, 2012)

Well I was poking around and came accross this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btSTfzgtZm8&feature=related


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## AR1911 (Oct 24, 2012)

Water wheel to a lineshaft setup?


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## OakRidgeGuy (Oct 24, 2012)

Well depending on the lay of the land that I would be able to get, it could be that of a water wheel .. but it seems that a Pelton wheel would be more efficient..


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## jgedde (Oct 24, 2012)

Tony Wells said:


> That does appear to be the same book, although I have I believe the first edition. I will check in the morning for the ISBN number.
> 
> This is the cover on mine:
> 
> ...



That's the one I have also.  It's definitely one of the books you want on hand when the you know what hits the fan...

John


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## OakRidgeGuy (Oct 24, 2012)

I am going to order that book here very soon.. first I have to get the mill before anything else will happen.. I have been stocking up on some other items too..


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## Ebel440 (Oct 19, 2014)

I Think you want as much head as possible as with higher pressure you can use less volume which with a smaller supply may be important.


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