# Digital Calipers- What do you think of these?



## HMF

I had picked out these calipers, and they are now on sale at Travers.

My only calipers right now is a Mitutoyo non-electronic set.

What do you guys think of these?


----------



## Tenn

Drooool I don't have any digital calipers but would like them if I thought I could justify it. Mitutoyo is quality stuff, my dial caliper is Mitutoyo,... got some cheaper Chinese ones too. Definitely agree with the thought that calipers are rough measurement tools even though that is sometimes close enough. I learned in shop class that in order for a tool to be accurate to 0.001" it needs to measure to 0.0001". Micrometers typically measure to 0.0001" giving that accuracy. Calipers on the other hand don't typically measure to 0.0001" these measure to 0.0005" which is better than some but anymore typical of digital calipers. You'll use it but may not "need" that much caliper ?? Probably won't regret it though unless you see it advertised cheaper somewhere else later ?? It's a good quality calipers IMHO.   
With a bit of care in a home shop environment waterproof probably isn't all that necessary, just a nice feature and a sales point. Had a machinist friend tell me calipers are only accurate to +- 0.003" but he may have been referring to older dial calipers ?? Today's closer tolerances in machining would apply to new measuring instruments as well I would assume??
~Chris


----------



## HMF

> author=mnmh link=topic=2964.msg20703#msg20703 date=1312477877
> Anything Mitutoyo I like. They don't make junk.
> 
> That's a decent price from Travers. There's one on ebay right now currently the bid is at $100.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Mitutoyo-Digima...pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&amp;hash=item27bd14ec7f
> 
> I'd like to get the 8" version of the one you are looking at. I need an 8" caliper and usually prefer dial calipers but I wouldn't mind having one digital caliper in my tool cabinet.
> 
> Ed



That was ANOTHER question I had Ed. Is 6" enough for a beginning home guy like me or should I pony up for 8"? The 6" is usually the ONLY one they ever have on sale?

Thanks,


Nelson


----------



## HMF

> author=DaveH link=topic=2964.msg20702#msg20702 date=1312477850
> I use the cheaper non waterproof ones all the time, I have 4 or so that still work.
> I really like them quick and easy, reasonably accurate.
> 
> However I still tend to use my micrometers for the final accuracy – but that’s just me
> 
> DaveH



Dave,

I have some non-digital Mitutoyo's I got cheap on Ebay- a pretty nice set. Do you guys think I would be better served getting some digital micrometers (Mitutoyo) instead???


Nelson


----------



## Tenn

> author=DaveH link=topic=2964.msg20726#msg20726 date=1312484462
> Nelson,
> Me thinks you have too much money
> 
> For me (and quite a few others) how much something costs is important. A digital Mitutoyo micrometer is to me very expensive, I would just buy a CCC one, -not even a digital one just a standard type and use the left over money for other tool.
> That's just my point of view.
> DaveH



Maybe he just won the lottery ??    Yes I bought quite a few non-essentials when I first started too. Not that the tools themselves aren't essential but that I didn't "need" many of the things I bought and they are expensive dust/rust collectors unless you are using them. For a home shop start out "VERY" basic and buy what you need as you need it. You don't "need" a lot of fancy tools to do good work and can often better spend that hard earned money on major items. And like DaveH said that is just my point of view and from my experience. I am an avid tool enthusiast and like nothing better than getting a new toy in the mail.     But have learned to my chagrin that I often don't use what "I thought" was too good of a deal to pass up. Spend your time getting that lathe working and don't spend too much time drooling over the tool catalogs. In over ten years of buying from Enco and other companies they pretty much cycle their sales so if you think you might need something don't panic buy it as it will come back on sale for the same price a few months down the road normally. If you really need it buy it and then you might add some small stuff to get free shipping if you want?? A little planning goes a long ways. People don't plan to fail, they fail to plan.
My 2 cents worth.
~Chris


----------



## Tenn

> Nelson,
> 
> It all depends on what you are making. I've had a few 6" dial calipers since I started this hobby some 12 years ago and they have been adequate for almost all of what I do. There have been a few times I could have used an 8" so I"m looking at both dial and digital. The reason I would like one digital caliper is for the instant inch to metric at the press of the button feature. If you can afford it, I would purchase quality tools right from the start. Quality tools will last you your lifetime so in the end they are cheaper than purchasing poor quality tools. You don't have to get top of the line tools to get quality tools.
> 
> Well, that's my 2 cents.
> 
> Ed



Well stated  That oughta be worth at least 3 cents  I would personally recommend a 6" digital and a 12" dial caliper for the times you need a bit longer for the simple reason it gives you another 4"s over the 8" model and comes in handy on occasion. FWIW
~Chris


----------



## HMF

> author=DaveH link=topic=2964.msg20726#msg20726 date=1312484462
> Nelson,
> Me thinks you have too much money
> 
> For me (and quite a few others) how much something costs is important. A digital Mitutoyo micrometer is to me very expensive, I would just buy a CCC one, -not even a digital one just a standard type and use the left over money for other tool.
> That's just my point of view.
> 
> DaveH



Not too much money, but I get an allowance from each check to buy some tools, and I want to buy the best I can afford so I don't have to buy twice.

Nelson


----------



## HMF

> author=mnmh link=topic=2964.msg20777#msg20777 date=1312496229
> Nelson,
> 
> Enco currently has that same Mitutoyo digital caliper on sale for $183 so Travers sale price of $143 is a very decent price.
> 
> Ed



Ed,

I know- they are very overpriced on that item- Travers' normal price is $179.

$143 is real good, which is why I asked all your opinions. 

Nelson


----------



## Tenn

It definitely pays to shop around !! 8)


----------



## HMF

And don't forget free shipping codes and 10 or 15% off codes!

There happens to be a Travers local to me so it is a pick up! 


Nelson


----------



## brucer

that will be an excellent set of calipers for home use..  i've been using a set of mitutoyo digital calipers for about 20yrs now, been a very good set of calipers, very durable and also very accurate..... they were so good, the battery went out one day and i ordered an 8" mitutoyo digital caliper for a backup pair, then i liked those so much i bought some 12" mitutoyo calipers...

i would probably get the 6" digitals then probably a set of 12" dial calipers..


----------



## HMF

I agree with what you guys are saying.

I will get the digital and look for a good 12" one on Ebay.

Thanks again!


Nelson


----------



## brucer

for micrometers, dont get digital micrometers...... 

only brand of micrometers i would consider are starrett, mitutoyo and brown&sharpe.. starrett first then mitutoyo or B&S either as second choice. i like carbide faced mics only...


----------



## HMF

> author=brucer link=topic=2964.msg20799#msg20799 date=1312500411
> for micrometers, dont get digital micrometers......



Why not?

Nelson


----------



## Tenn

> author=Allthumbz link=topic=2964.msg20786#msg20786 date=1312497842
> And don't forget free shipping codes and 10 or 15% off codes!
> 
> There happens to be a Travers local to me so it is a pick up!
> 
> 
> Nelson



Must be nice to live close to a place like that but it's probably good I don't


----------



## brucer

> author=DaveH link=topic=2964.msg20807#msg20807 date=1312501655
> Brucer,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> author=brucer link=topic=2964.msg20799#msg20799 date=1312500411
> only brand of micrometers i would consider are starrett, mitutoyo and brown&sharpe.. starrett first then mitutoyo or B&S either as second choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh - what is wrong with my Cheap cheerfull Chinese ones :crying: :crying: :crying:
> 
> 
> DaveH
Click to expand...



if i were going to buy the chinese mics i would want to feel of them first... a friend of mine bought aset and they were fine, he still has them to this day, but i would want to spin them and measure with them before i bought them..


----------



## brucer

> author=Allthumbz link=topic=2964.msg20803#msg20803 date=1312501098
> 
> 
> 
> author=brucer link=topic=2964.msg20799#msg20799 date=1312500411
> for micrometers, dont get digital micrometers......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?
> 
> Nelson
Click to expand...


this was years ago, but a guy i worked with had a set of 0-1 digital mics, he ran cnc mills, coolant got on them and tey wouldnt read correct for a couple of days.... they might be better now, i was taught on just the regular old mics so i stick with those..


----------



## HMF

I currently have a manual Mitutoyo set I got on Ebay, and they work fine- I don't mind learning to read them.

The thing that caught my eye was the conversion to metric at the touch of a button. Dealing with chinese parts- it's all metric, and that can come in handy I think.


Nelson


----------



## Tenn

Nelson I've got a big wall chart with measurements in metric and SAE behind my lathe that I use for reference. Only cost $3 or $4 and is durable plastic with the tap hole drill sizes and various info. About 2' x 3', but I don't do all that much metric so for me the quick change button would only be the occasional benefit. Just a thought.....I find the chart fairly handy myself. 

~Chris


----------



## brucer

> author=Allthumbz link=topic=2964.msg20915#msg20915 date=1312552848
> I currently have a manual Mitutoyo set I got on Ebay, and they work fine- I don't mind learning to read them.
> 
> The thing that caught my eye was the conversion to metric at the touch of a button. Dealing with chinese parts- it's all metric, and that can come in handy I think.
> 
> 
> Nelson



use 25.4 for metric conversion.


----------



## jacob

While discussing the subject with and old timer many years ago, he told me he could set an OLD style set of callipers (the ones that look like a set of dividers) to exactly 1", using only the callipers and a steel rule. 

After poking around in a mountain of interesting things piled on his bench, he pulled out a rule and promtly set the callipers to 1". He then handed them to me with a 1" gauge to check. Sure enough they were bang on, I couldn't have done better with a micrometer.

Of course I had to ask him how he had managed it. He told me that on a quaility rule the division lines should be .003" thick. All he had to do was get the calliper legs in the middle of the .003" wide lines.

OK, how he did it I can understand. But how he managed to do it in his dark cave of a shed with the only light coming from a dirty, tiny window on the other side of the room I'll never know. I could barely see where I was putting my feet in amongst all his jumble of half finished projects, tools and curiosities.
It's amazing what experience can teach. A true engineer that one.


----------



## TOOLNUT

Hi,
I am a retired journeyman and if I bore the hole too big I can just make a bit larger piston,  to compensate, and keep on rolling.

No question..those are good calipers.  I have used several different kinds and see very little difference except the more expensive ones are a bit more sturdy and will stand more abuse.  Much of the trouble that I do see is in the handling. Dial and digital vernier calipers are easy to force and get incorrect readings.  The same is true of micrometers, but to a lesser degree. I generally prefer reading mic's by feel and usually don't use the rachet if there is one. I guess that might be because they didn't have "readouts" when I learned.

When all is said and done....
A beginner can get by with less than top quality calipers. Of course if money is no object,  buy the best that you can find, and sure, they will last a lifetime.

I agree that Mic's are the best bet for accuracy but with care and an experienced feel I can read my Harbor freight digital verniers with in .001  consistantly, usually right on the money. It seems to me that a beginner will be doing projects with less demanding dimensions and loossr tolerances. As he progresses he will see a need for better tools and if he has the moola he no doubt will buy them. 

My preference is the 6.00" digital or dial. I have a couple of cheap digital ( HF 4.00 and 6.00), and a couple good grade dials (6.00). As a beginning hobbyist 6:00 digitals and some 1.00 mics should serve him well.  If he can only afford one pr of mic's get !.00 and if you get good ones they will be nice for you grandson. If I wanted some bigger vernier/digital calipers for bigger jobs I might go for a 12" set of digitals, but I doubt if they will get used much.

I also have a 24" Regular vernier  ( non dial and non digital) that read in metric only. I have only needed them once or twice in the last 20 years and it was no trouble to measure in metric and then convert to english. The are tricky to read though. I have to take several readings and look for consistancy. Almost an educated guess.

My comments here are intended to be for a newer hobbyist although most will apply to a more experienced person as well.

If one is working in the trade, perhaps as an apprentice, I would recommend buying better grade tools since this would be your livelyhood that depends on them. And the other, older, guys are always brand concensious and tend to rate a guy by the tools that he has. Eventually how well you use the tools will be more important but first impressions are always important.  
Vernier calipers ( Dial and digital) can be read very accurately with practice. One can practice reading them with mic standards, plug gages, and many other objects of known sizes. Practice, practice, practice.

When I was working I used to win a lot of free coffee betting that I could measure openings for wear plates ( in the neighborhood of 1 1/2 "- 2" ). and I consistantly got it within .001 using just my own scale (.010" grads ), and a magnifying glass. After practice you get familiar with your own tools and you will be able to even  read a tape measure ( your own ), to surprising accuracy. 
Jerry


----------



## 12bolts

Jerry,
So as not to confuse the new hobbyists, calipers are calipers. Dial or digital or vernier is the type of display method used to obtain a reading.
Digital is the latest way to display the reading taken. Dial was introduced a few years back to simplify reading calipers. Vernier is the linear secondary scale many people see on calipers and takes its name from the French mathematician and instument inventor, Pierre Vernier.
But please dont call them digital, (or dial), verniers. They are calipers.
Unless they are vernier calipers.
Most mics have vernier scales.

Cheers Phil


----------



## TOOLNUT

*OOPS!!   Foiled again*

Hi Phil,
Yes you are absolutely right, the wording might be confusing to a newbie.  I was guilty of using a little 'shop slang' in my post. After I wrote it I re read it and realized that,  but it was rather late and my eyes were tired so I said Well, the point that I was trying to make was that when we learn the feel of our individual tools we will be on the road to being a skilled person.  I was using what I thought were descriptive terms rather than correct nomenclature. May not have been the best choice.

However the link provided by Gordon should help considerably in that regard
Certainly, knowing the proper names of the tools should be a part of it  as well.
Thanks for the kindly correction.  I remember how long it took me to learn the difference between a "spanner" and a "spanner wrench".

There are also several other types of calipers as revealed by Gordon and I believe the two legged variety sometimes used to measure round pieces are called "Spring Calipers". Having said that, I went to my handy dictionary and looked up calipers and did not find that,....maybe more shop slang ?

At least I found out that someone read my post, and that's good.
Cheers to Y'all
Jerry


----------



## Tony Wells

Don't forget "firm joint" calipers.


----------



## TOOLNUT

Tony Wells said:


> Don't forget "firm joint" calipers.



Are they the same as "Hermaphrodite" (sp?) calipers ??
Jerry


----------



## PurpLev

I love my mitutoyo digital calipers to death, but since I am not in the shop on a daily basis it ends up that whenever I want to use them the batteries are dead. I ended up getting a B&S dial calipers which doesn't run out of battery power - ever. sure, it doesn't have some niceties, but it works every time I pick it up and is easy to ready. I now keep my mitutoyo with the battery out, but that's sort of useless as it adds an extra step if I do want to use it... a love hate relationship.


----------



## PurpLev

Gordon Clarke said:


> What type of Mitutoyo caliper do you have and which type of battery are you using? A SR44 battery is better than a LR44 one.
> 
> Probably the best caliper electronics available is Sylvac which has a 3v CR2032 inside. Most calipers have a 1½v battery.
> 
> Of course if by going "dead" you mean every second year or so is too often then that is something else again. Calipers continue to use the battery even when switched off albeit only very little. Like a TV I suppose
> 
> Just a thought but I'll bet you have to think about your measurement result a couple of seconds more every time you use a dial rather than a digital caliper
> I'm also willing to bet you don't work in both the imperial and metric systems.
> 
> Suggestion. Why don't you keep an extra battery in the caliper box? That's assuming you keep it in its box when not in use.



I'll have to check that later, it's a Digimatic, but don't remember the exact model number. all the buttons and feel of it are superb, but the batteries won't last more than a month or 2 - maybe it's defective as far as I know (I got it used). Like you said, I don't use it extensively, and to not rely on it for work as I only use it for hobby so it's less critical for me, but still. my experience with digital calipers is what it is (I have 1 more asian digital calipers I used to use for woodworking, and replaced it with a dial caliper as well for the same reason). I do have spare batteries, but at the rate they are going "unused" I find it better to stick to Dial caliper for my case.

Thanks for the battery suggestion, I will check to see which model mine are.


----------



## PurpLev

Gordon Clarke said:


> If it's a Digimatic you don't have to tell me more. I hate to be the one to tell you but I'm as good as certain you have a defective caliper. The only other explanation is that the batteies you have (bought) were kept in adverse conditions.
> 
> I also have a Mitutoyo digimatic (among many others ) and at the moment it's still running on its second battery. I've had it for 5 years.
> 
> The best suggestion I can give is for you to buy a new SR44 battery from a reputable shop and if it doesn't last at least a year then your caliper is defective.



Thanks for the confirmation. I suspected it was defective a while back right after I got it (talk about a lemon). oh well.


----------



## PurpLev

Gordon Clarke said:


> The best suggestion I can give is for you to buy a new SR44 battery from a reputable shop and if it doesn't last at least a year then your caliper is defective.



Gordon, I took your advice and got a SR44 battery to replace the LR44 I was using a couple weeks ago, and so far the calipers seem to be working well and do not exhibit the errors I was constantly seeing before - you may have just restored my faith in digitals!


----------



## PurpLev

Gordon Clarke said:


> I'll keep on keeping my fingers crossed
> 
> To be a bit more serious I think many tend to forget that when buying something used there is always a chance that there is no knowing how it's been treated or handled. Would you take the word of a used car saleman that the only owner was a little old lady that only used it to get to and from church?
> 
> Gordon
> 
> To me a caliper (singular) is an instrument where you can read the measurement result. Vernier, dial or digital. Calipers (plural) is the type where you feel your way and then take a reading from something else.
> 
> Both types are shown here:
> http://www.google.dk/search?hl=da&s...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=vJ1rT8GqNcbSsgahsMG6Ag
> 
> I'm not saying I'm right, just the way I personally keep them apart.



Thanks, and agreed on buying used. especially for precision tools there is a high chance of getting burnt, in this case I got it so cheap that the risk was worth taking. I'll keep on using it and hopeully the root cause of errors was the battery type. worst case, I'll be getting a (brand) new one this time.

As for the linguistic naming convention, I must say I was not aware of the difference, and it now make a lot of sense why these 2 similar yet different tools are called that way. the small details make all the difference sometimes. thanks for pointing that out.


----------



## mitsue

One thing to remember, always check your calipers with a standard (IE gage block rod that comes with each mic). If you have an outside mic set, use those standards to check thru the full travel and check it out. To check the inside measuring blades, use a bearing as a standard. The bore of a bearing is more exact than most need and come free used or still cheap new compared to a "setting ring". This attachment made by Fowler, item#Z9020 "universal caliper accessory kit" Is great for measuring grooves, undercut bores etc. Flat, rounded. pointed and pin tip that can be mounted on five sides of the bases. Use the digital to zero on a mic then check +- from the nominal target size. 
	

		
			
		

		
	





The little black cups by the allen wrench have ball bearings in them and slide over a outside mic anvil to measure sidewall thickness from a bore to the outside.


----------



## mitsue

Gordon Clarke said:


> How can I not like that LOL Any idea how long they've had that? If you take a look at these websites you'll understand why I'm asking. I've had mine for over 15 years. I started with thread measurement inserts and just kep   t coming up with more ideas.
> 
> Here's the latest thing I've come up with. A caliper with a built in pressure device.
> 
> *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8U6rxHdqjg&feature=related
> *
> Gordon



Nice stuff you have there Gordon. I bought that Fowler set in the mid 90's and I'm sure they were available back in the 80's. Your device is a great idea. Many people have a hard time getting the "feel" for measuring objects with various tools. I was blessed with the experience of working with a great QC man named Gordon Armstrong. When he checked my parts I would make a measurement and see how I scored against his measurement. He taught me the slight "wiggle"on parts to settle it into place and I rarely use the ratchet on mics, I draw my finger across the barrel lightly instead. It takes a lot of practice measuring known sized objects with various tools, Telescopic gages etc, to find "your feel" for it.


Your product would speed up the learning curve and give more consistant results. Great job on those. Do you sell kits for Mitutoyo Absolute Digimatic calipers?

Thanks,
Darcy


----------



## mitsue

Gordon Clarke said:


> One thing though, don't get me started on using a micrometer without using the ratchet. It drives me around the bend when I see somebody doing that. It's there for a purpose and gives the same pressure as used when the micrometer is tested by the factory or a calibration facility.
> While working as quality manager in various companies (with up to 30 inspectors) the last thing I needed were discussions on who was measuring correctly
> Gordon




I just saw too many guys spinning the ratchet and it has an impact hammer effect that scews the result. You are right on the proper use, couple of clicks is best, not twenty.


----------



## mitsue

Gordon Clarke said:


> The problem with making anything idiot proof is that idiots are willing to do and try anything
> 
> Gordon



I find they keep building better and bigger idiots
Darcy


----------



## mitsue

Gordon Clarke said:


> As some may know my "specialty" is making gadgets (sounds better when I call them accessories ) for digital calipers. Here are some I've come up with and may give some in here ideas for solving problems they may have run into at times. Measuring grooves and recesses. Diameters and depths.
> 
> http://www.f-m-s.dk/MEASURING GROOVES.pdf
> 
> Gordon
> 
> If this isn't the most suitable thread for this then it's OK to move it. No need to ask me if that's OK



I have to say, your product looks great and shows the time and thought you put into it. AAA+++


----------

