# Welding transmission housings



## alloy (May 13, 2022)

Well my welding friends another question from a TOTAL NON WELDER.  

I'm working on another transmission speedometer drive conversion an this time unfortunately I can't use epoxy to seal the insert in place it will have to be welded.

They are used housings and I will bore a hole for a 1-1/8"  6061 sleeve and insert it into the housing and it will need to be welded in place.

I'm taking a tig welding class and it's not going that great, I suck and I don't think I can ever tig these up or anything else for that matter.  I'm thinking that a mig with a spool gun would probably be best, but again I'm not sure I could ever do it.  If this works out these will come in 1 at a time like my other housings do and for the other ones I do everything in house.   I have a guy that can weld but he's 60 miles away (120 round trip) and that makes this not worth it, and I can't expect him to drop everything to do one little job every time these come in.

So what are my alternatives?  I'm saw those low temp aluminum rods and they look great on their videos and I tried them with a hand held propane torch and I think the torch doesn't get hot enough to get the part hot enough to melt the rod.

Anyone have any ideas?


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## FOMOGO (May 13, 2022)

Can you use some Loctite green I believe bearing retainer on a light press fit? Mike


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## Nutfarmer (May 13, 2022)

Metal prep is the most critical. All the oil has to be cleaned off and out of what is to be welded. Sometimes it helps to preheat the case,but be careful you may have a melted case. Practice on some 6061 until your comfortable with what your doing.  tig is still the best process for what you are doing. Don't give up!!!  It will be better with the more practice.  Things work better for me when I am fresh in the morning. Make sure you can see the weld puddle. The better helmets made a big difference for me. The most important thing is doing give up. I make no claims to being a welder ,but I get by with what is needed on the farm. Hopefully some of the pros can give you some better ideas.


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## Jim F (May 13, 2022)

alloy said:


> Well my welding friends another question from a TOTAL NON WELDER.
> 
> I'm working on another transmission speedometer drive conversion an this time unfortunately I can't use epoxy to seal the insert in place it will have to be welded.
> 
> ...


I have used those low temp rods to weld a .22 reciever back together, I used MAPP gas.


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## alloy (May 13, 2022)

FOMOGO said:


> Can you use some Loctite green I believe bearing retainer on a light press fit? Mike


I guess I should have chosen a different word other than boring. Where the sleeve has to go only half the sleeve is surrounded by the tail housing casting. The other has is out in the open.  

I'm not at my shop now, but I'll post pics later.  Ironically I'm in town waiting to go to my welding class. I came in early yo get my 2nd covid booster. 

Yes they stressed metal prep in my class.  And the housing is saturated with oil for the last 20 years.

I've looked at the map gas cylinders. Can I use them on my propane torch head?


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## mksj (May 13, 2022)

The low temp sticks will probably not work on a transmission housing as there is too much of a thermal heat sink, you will not be able to get it hot enough to get the rod to stick. Not a welder, but TIG/MIG would seem to be the best option. Fortunately in the past when I needed welding done, I had a friend that had 30+ years of experience and started his welding career in the Navy welding submarine hulls. He was meticulous and a perfectionist, which is what often required to get the welding done right the first time. My wife always wanted to weld, so he gave her a lesson in welding and she laid down so decent beads in short order.


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## FOMOGO (May 13, 2022)

Mapp should take the same torch head. Mike


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## erikmannie (May 13, 2022)

What material is the used trans housing? I would guess that it is cast.

EDIT: I found this on the internet.


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## erikmannie (May 13, 2022)

If this were me, I would go TIG all the way. You would want to practice as much as possible before you execute the task on the real part.

Here is a thread about a guy who wants to TIG weld 6061 to cast aluminum:





__





						Welding 6061 to Cast Aluminum -  		 		Weld Talk Message Boards
					





					weldtalk.hobartwelders.com
				




Spoiler alert: he chooses 4043 for a filler rod.

See also:









						Aluminum Workshop: The truth about welding aluminum castings
					

Q: A group of friends and I were talking the other day. Some people said that all aluminum castings are weldable. Others took the extreme opposite position




					www.thefabricator.com
				




This article talks a little about prepping the cast:









						Welding a cracked cast aluminum bell housing on a vintage Alfa Romeo
					

Cast aluminum can be problematic, and fixing cracks only add more of a challenge to the welding process. Detroit welder Josh Welton of Brown Dog Welding tackles a cracked cast aluminum bell housing on a vintage Alfa Romeo. 




					www.thefabricator.com
				




At the risk of overdoing it, if you scroll down on this page, the *text* has some amazing tips for your job:









						Cast Aluminum Welding Repairs
					

Cast Aluminum Welds like Fidos Butt - Cast Aluminum Welding Repair Tips



					www.weldingtipsandtricks.com
				




Bonus screenshot:


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## erikmannie (May 13, 2022)

The reasons that I wouldn’t use a spool gun  include:

(1) You would probably be limited to 4043, which isn’t the worst thing.

(2) Even if everything else is perfect, a spool gun can introduce a high degree of frustration.

(3) You can be more *precise* with TIG! Yes, I know it is possible for an experienced MIG welder to be just as precise with wire feed, but again, all other things being equal…

Disclaimer: I have only used a spool gun once, and it was beyond frustrating. I was trying to help the owner of the spool gun find settings that would work. Long story short, he never could figure it out, & put the spool gun aside, only to go out and buy an AC/DC TIG welder! Last I heard, he TIGs all his aluminum, as do I.


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## alloy (May 14, 2022)

You guys have given me a lot to think about.

Here are pics of the housings. First pic shows the hole for the cable drive.  Until recently I didn't think the ford housings were worth keeping.  Then a potential customer told me they are going for $500 on ebay if you can find them.  The non cable drive ones are a dime a dozen.  So the hope is I can modify the housing in the second pic.  The sleeve will be half out of the housing unlike other ones I do.   

The customer is sending me a couple of housings to work with.  Hopefully the will be here soon.

Last pic is from tonights welding class.  Tonight we had a third instructor.  First injstructor David was there one night and it was just orientation.  Second night was Natasha.  She isn't very helpful. For 2 nights she didn't even see me.  Tonight Nathan was there and he actually came over to see how I was doing (terrible) and he tried to use the welder.  He did worse than I'm doing.  He welds for a living but not doing tig.  He said when he has used tig is was super easy.  He thinks there is something wrong with the welder.  I think there is a morning class, then an afternoon class, then a night class all using the same equipment and they all change the settings on the machine.  Then I come along and have no clue other setting the electrode to negitve and changing the amp settings about the welder.  

He said he is going to check with his boss and see what he says about it.  Tonight was a waste and I'm upset about it because they need to have an instructor teaching the class that knows what he's doing.   It's not Nathans fault, as far as I can tell he was a last minute fill in.  I asked him about what happened to David and no one will say.  I hope he comes back, but I'm not sure if I'll take the class again considering what happened tonight.







Top plate is all me except for the one weld the bottom two rows. Second plate is all Nathan.   I gave up and left before the class was over.  I don't understand why everything turned brown.


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## Just for fun (May 14, 2022)

Bummer about the class not working out.   It sounds like you would be better just buying a TIG welder and watching YouTube instructors.   Like this guy. 



			https://youtube.com/c/weldingtipsandtricks


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## alloy (May 14, 2022)

I have a tig welder,  but didn't get very far with it. That's why I took the class.


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## 682bear (May 14, 2022)

To me, it looks like you aren't getting any gas coverage... that is what is causing the brown color.

-Bear


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2022)

You probably know this, but the brown is iron oxide. The steel oxidizes quickly when hot. That can be wire wheeled off to be as shiny as you want.

Taking a class or not, you need to spend hundreds of hours practicing in order to be able to produce beautiful beads.

Your TIG beads look fine. I wish I could see a run using no filler material. Have you practiced a lot of stringers with no filler material? Somebody would be getting out ahead of their skiis if they jumped into using filler material before doing a lot of autogenous (“using no filler rod”) welds.

Welding coupons and hood time are your best friends here. Get into the habit of investing a *lot* of money into, say, 2” X 3”, .090” to .120” wall carbon steel coupons. .120” is a great choice! Pay the local steel yard to make them for you on their press brake.


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## erikmannie (May 14, 2022)

A months long welding program will have you sitting there welding coupons for over 80% of the time, which translates into about 800 hours of hood time.

If you have paid for the coupons yourself, you will have the incentive to take the time to prep the material well enough, establish & maintain a proper torch angle, arc length, travel speed, etc. YouTube can teach you everything you need to know. Welding podcasts are helpful, too. I listen to Arc Junkies & the Welding Tips & Tricks podcast.

Coupons + hood time! You will spend some money on Argon. Here is where you look at what you can stop buying in order to be able to afford Argon and coupons. That is how I stopped many vises, & I did use the money saved to invest in equipment & materials. These people who spend a lot of time partying are less likely to come out of that with constructive skills. I don’t party at all, & I can (barely) afford Argon and coupons.

Don’t get frustrated when you dip your tungsten; that shows you that you are committed to keeping a tight arc.

It will be a little less frustrating if you buy good (e.g. CK Worldwide) gas lenses rather than cheap import gas lenses, but you can still do great work with cheap gas lenses.

Buy 2% lanthanated tungsten in 1/16” and 3/32”. Use the 3/32” when you are using over 95A.

Use 1A per .001” of base material thickness.

Many people master carbon steel before they move on to SS, ally or Ti. This is because the carbon steel coupons are the least expensive.

Make sure you have plenty of light; this costs almost nothing. You know to be as comfortable as possible; that is free! Don’t be too proud to wear magnification. I am 55 years old, and I can’t weld unless I have 2.0X to 3.0X magnification.

Welding is difficult. Don’t get discouraged. Start with the easy position (flat), and an easy joint (stringer, lap or butt): small steps, spending a *lot* of time on each step.

Some of my fondest memories are spending long hours TIG welding on carbon steel coupons wearing ear buds. That is some quality alone time. Was I frustrated with how my beads looked? You bet. I can’t wait to do it again, but I gave up on the ear buds because I like to hear the welding sounds.

Last comment: strive for full penetration. If you don’t get full pen, you need to turn up the Amps or travel more slowly. Remember not to get frustrated if you blow a hole; how else will you ever learn to avoid doing so (answer: master keyholing) and learning how to fix holes? I think that people who have never blown a hole aren’t getting full pen. Ya gotta get full pen!


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## stupoty (May 14, 2022)

alloy said:


> I don't understand why everything turned brown.



What is the material of the welding test metal ?  looks like it has some sort of coating, I find coatings can cause a right pain when doing some tig.

If I had to guess I would say , not enough gas, contaminated metal, contaminated tungsten, leak in gas system drawing in ambient air.

Stu


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## Liljoebrshooter (May 14, 2022)

My best Slingblade quote. "It ain't got no gas".

Joe


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## stupoty (May 14, 2022)

Liljoebrshooter said:


> My best Slingblade quote. "It ain't got no gas".
> 
> Joe



The exploded craters look like when I accidentally tried to tig with no gas 

Stu


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## Liljoebrshooter (May 14, 2022)

Or maybe the wrong gas?  You need argon for tig.  Make sure they don't have 75/25 mix for mig welding hooked up. 
Joe


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## alloy (May 14, 2022)

The materail is mild steel plate that I bead blasted.  Gas is argon.  We could hear the gas coming out of the torch, and he said he could feel it when he stepped on the pedal.

I have practiced with no filler rod and it looked a lot better than last night.  Actually for the last two times in class it went downhill.  And with the woman instructor more interested in chatting I just kept practicing by myself.  Last night the reason Nathan came over was I said something to the admin lady.  Told her I think it would be a good idea for the instructor to check in with every student at least once per class.


This was my best weld other than the crater at the end.  Looks more like wire feed than tig.    This was my second night at class.   Same materail, same bead blast surface prep.

 Then everything went to crap.


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## stupoty (May 14, 2022)

Before you move up to ali welding get the mild steel nailed down.  I have been having success with fairly simple ali box section fabrications.

But half the time I try something more complicated or more mass/thicker material I have the sudden "where did it go?" moment as the aluminum gives no obvious warnings that it's about to burn through.

By the way the beads are looking ok , it's just about practice and learning the dexterity.  The finesse comes with time.

I've been using someones button torch recently which has taken a while to get the hang of as I'm used to a foot peddle.



Stu


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## Lo-Fi (May 14, 2022)

Welding cast ali is trying at the best of times. Dubious quality ali, porosity, baked in oil, inclusions.... It's not pretty. A spool gun may goober some metal on there, but you're fighting the same things with far less control than with the TIG torch and no reverse arc cleaning action and no ability to let the arc longer and let the impurities pool out. A good recipe for having some metal snot sat on top, but not bonded to the casting. The low temp soldering rods have a slim chance of working, but you'll fight oil and inclusions bubbling out too. Take a torch to it and see how much smoke you get coming off it as it heats...

The various problems illustrated perfectly here:






I'm a great believer in the mantra "make your requirements less dumb". Meaning absolutely no disrespect. It's easy to tunnel yourself down one particular way of thinking and totally miss a smarter way. The best solution here involves not welding it if at all possible? Even if that means different positioning. Or could you mill a flat and a piece that bolts on and seals with a gasket?


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## MrWhoopee (May 14, 2022)

It's a pretty steep climb to go from zero to welding used, oil impregnated cast aluminum. Once you feel like you've finally got a handle on steel, you start all over again on aluminum.  I would recommend getting some pieces of a scrap trans housing and going to spend a day or two with your weldor friend. Take plenty of his favorite beverage.


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## Provincial (May 16, 2022)

Based on your reported location, I would suggest looking for someone that repairs damaged chainsaw crankcases.  It is a very similar job, welding on stressed diecast aluminum parts that have been immersed in oil.  Usually, these welders do jobs for auto enthusiasts, too, and will understand what you are trying to do.  Years ago we had a guy in this area who could weld up a crankcase with a hole in it from a thrown connecting rod, so with the advances in technology, your project should be very simple for someone with that sort of experience.

Ask around at the local saw shop.  You should have a name and phone number within a day or so.  Often, the pay is with beer!  You get to chat and help drink the beer, and perhaps have found a mentor.


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## ericc (May 16, 2022)

Your TIG class sounds as bad as my first one.  The instructor gave us a 1 hour lecture with notes, then lined us up behind the welding bench.  We were allowed to weld until we dipped the tungsten or burned through.  I managed to weld about half an inch before I failed (first time).  This kind of reminded me of PE class when I was a kid.  90% of the students fell through the cracks and received almost no benefit from the class.

I hate to say this, but it is not safe to do nearly anything these days without a review.  Youtube can really help.  Everybody tells me that I should go to community college and take a course.  Maybe this was once a good idea, but all the welding programs have been shut down.  The closest one is in Aptos, which isn't really in the Bay Area.  Over an hour under the best of conditions.  I know some of the staff who worked there a few years ago.  They are really serious and devoted teachers, but they said that the students often lacked basic learning skills, and most of them never made anything of this resource.

Going back to my course, I don't blame the teacher.  He was a good blacksmith, a better CNC machinist, and an amazing foundryman.  Maybe welding was just not his thing.  I think that, looking at his website discussing his views on education, that he expected the students to catch the spark from their few minutes of hood time and buy their own cheap import TIG welder and watch Youtube or barter their way into a decent lesson.  It worked for me.  Try to find somebody to help you.  That class sounds terrible.

As for those TIG welds, you should be doing better by now.  I suspect bad gas or a leaky torch.  Quickly find somebody who can show you the right thing.


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## wbecker319 (May 16, 2022)

alloy said:


> I guess I should have chosen a different word other than boring. Where the sleeve has to go only half the sleeve is surrounded by the tail housing casting. The other has is out in the open.
> 
> I'm not at my shop now, but I'll post pics later.  Ironically I'm in town waiting to go to my welding class. I came in early yo get my 2nd covid booster.
> 
> ...


Yes you can, and it burns hotter.


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## Just for fun (May 16, 2022)

I'm still not real good at TIG welding but when I first started I found it easer to use a finger controll/switch and just set the amps.  Another thing I learned is that with TIG welding things need to be clean.  Not only removing the mill scale but wiping the metal down with acetone after bead blasting also helps.  Sometimes I leave my filler rod just laying next to the welder, if it's been a day or two I wipe it down with acetone also.


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## G-ManBart (May 18, 2022)

alloy said:


> Top plate is all me except for the one weld the bottom two rows. Second plate is all Nathan.   I gave up and left before the class was over.  I don't understand why everything turned brown.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You have a couple of possibilities here, but let me back up just a touch.  With problems like this you need to remove variables as much as possible.

TIG needs everything clean...no coatings, no contaminants, no oil, etc.  In the top plate you didn't do any surface prep like in the second plate where the use of a grinding wheel shows.  Even "clean" metal needs to be taken to white, shiny metal, and then ideally wiped with acetone.  Even a grinding wheel can leave behind traces of the wheel that will cause issues.  Often you have to use a grinding wheel to remove mill scale, then a flap disc to get to smooth, shiny metal, then wipe with acetone.  If it's really important I follow the flap disc with a unitized wheel which is a non-woven abrasive similar to compressed Scotchbrite.  In short....clean, clean, clean!

Once you've got a clean surface you can look at other stuff.  It certainly appears to be a gas issue.  It could be the wrong gas (needs to be 100% argon).  It could be contaminated gas (it really does happen).  It could be a leak somewhere between the tank and the torch that's pulling in oxygen.  Aside a normal check for leaks, the easiest thing to do is try the bottle from another machine that's working properly.  

Once you've done that, confirm you're getting flow out of the torch.  You want to set the flow meter to give you double the cup size being used in CFH on the flow meter.  So, if you're using a #7 cup on the torch, shoot for around 15CFH on the flow meter.

As far as machine settings it's not too critical on steel...as long as it's DC electrode negative.  What model welder are you using?


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## G-ManBart (May 18, 2022)

On the question of the transmission housings, realize that aluminum is quite different from steel/stainless.  People on welding forums will debate whether aluminum is "harder" to weld than steel, but that's a welding forum...they argue over almost everything...lol.  

In general, aluminum is more challenging for most people to get the hang of.  Assuming the casting can be welded (some aluminum castings are nearly impossible to weld) you have to approach it differently.  The oxide coating on aluminum melts at around 3800*F while the aluminum melts around 1200*F.  Because of that, you have to hit it hard with lots of heat to get through the oxide, then back off quickly so you don't blast through the base metal.  Because aluminum transfers heat so efficiently you can't just creep up on it like you can with steel by gradually applying the heat.  If you do that, you'll put so much heat into the metal the beads won't cool and freeze properly and you'll have to move very quickly to try keeping up with the heat...usually you get frosty, ugly beads or blow through the metal the farther you go.  

The short version on proper technique for aluminum is that you want essentially full throttle so that you get a puddle started in 1-2 seconds, then back off and start adding filler.  Because of that heat transfer you also have to move fast with the torch and filler.  Dab, move, dab, move, dab move...very little in the way of pausing.  That often means people struggle most with feeding wire fast enough with the support hand.  If it starts to get away from you it's just better to stop, get reset and start again.

The heat transfer and oxide issues also mean you generally need a machine with more power for any given thickness compared to steel.  For example, my small TIG is a 210A machine and the practical limit is around 3/8" thick aluminum.  Yes, you can stretch it by using lots of pre-heat or adding helium to the argon (even 20% helium helps a lot, but it's very expensive).  When I weld 1/8" coupons I normally set the machine around 150A and use most or all of that to get the puddle started...just as a point of reference.

If you're around water with marinas you might be able to find someone who repairs outboard motor lower units...usually cast aluminum and expensive so there's usually somebody fixing them that might tackle your transmission housings....just a thought.


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## alloy (May 21, 2022)

The welder is a miller syncrowave.  



The woman instructor was back and apparently her and the day time instructor looked over the machine and changed out the argon tank.  They couldn't get it weld either with the old tank.  She said sometimes that happens even thought the gauge showed 500 pounds.   Big difference with the new tank.

She also showed me how to weld toward me.  Instead of right to left, I go top to bottom.  I can see the puddle now and I couldn't see if before.  I wait for the puddle to form and watch it kind of shimmer, the dip, move it wait for the shimmer than dip and so on.  Major difference.  I feel like I'm actually getting somewhere now.  I wish I'd have done that at first.  My main problem is I can't seem to go in a straight line and when I get tired at the end of class it 

Next week she wants me to try aluminum. Said I'll love it.  I hope so.

This is my attempts at welding towards me.


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## G-ManBart (May 21, 2022)

That's a lot better, and she's right...sometimes weird stuff happens when the tank gets low.  I honestly think that's usually because of a touch of something else in the bottom more than lack of pressure, because I've run tanks down to almost zero with no issue.  Regardless, it's better that it's the tank than you or the machine!

There's still some obvious contamination showing on your beads, but that appears to be coming from the metal.  I see areas where it was hit with a grinder and the rest left alone and that will always cause ugly beads.  Get the metal down to white, shiny stuff and you'll see a huge difference.  It will also be easier to see the puddle.

I don't know what sort of torch setup they have on those machines, but a gas lens helps tremendously as you can have the tungsten much farther out, and easier to see.  Even better, they make Pyrex gas lens cups which are clear.  You can see through them, and they act somewhat like a mirror to reflect the light from the arc down onto the puddle...it's much, much easier to see using them.  They're a bit more expensive than ceramic alumina cups, and they can't handle quite as much heat, but for learning they really help, and for awkward positions where you can't see well no matter what, they help a lot as well.

The Syncrowave 250DX is a fantastic machine.  I've had over a dozen of them and the first one I had looked just like what you're using.  I just bought/sold and traded up newer machines multiple times to get my current machine...they all weld beautifully and have a lot of power.  I actually get better results on aluminum with one than I do using a newer machine with all the bells and whistles like pulse and adjustable frequency....not sure why, but it's true.


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## alloy (May 21, 2022)

The material was bead blasted. The shiny part was where the instructor tried to get the machine running. I'll try hitting it with a grinder next time. All tig machines including mine have a gas lens.

Here is my home machine. I don't think i need a syncrowave.



			Tig Welders: Power Tig 200DX | Everlast Welders


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## stupoty (May 21, 2022)

alloy said:


> My main problem is I can't seem to go in a straight line



I get this problem sometimes when doing practice beads on a plate not an actual joint, with a joint at least you kind of have some reference of a line to follow.   I have tried chalk lines parallel to the beads im doing or a piece of strait metal to the side with the same idea to give me a reference line.

Stu


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## G-ManBart (May 21, 2022)

alloy said:


> The material was bead blasted. The shiny part was where the instructor tried to get the machine running. I'll try hitting it with a grinder next time. All tig machines including mine have a gas lens.
> 
> Here is my home machine. I don't think i need a syncrowave.
> 
> ...


It will be interesting to see what happens when you try cleaning with a grinder.  I haven't tried TIG welding on anything that was bead blasted before, but I guess it's possible that depending on the media used it could drive surface contaminants into the metal.  If nothing else it's worth trying as an experiment.

My first TIG welder (still have it) is an Everlast PowerTIG 210EXT.  It has a lot of features and I like it just fine on steel and stainless, but for some crazy reason I have never been able to get results on aluminum with it that are as good as the Syncrowave.  I've literally spent hours with the two machines next to one another and gone back and forth trying to get the results to look the same.  I can get close, but not quite....I guess it's just me!


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## G-ManBart (May 21, 2022)

stupoty said:


> I get this problem sometimes when doing practice beads on a plate not an actual joint, with a joint at least you kind of have some reference of a line to follow.   I have tried chalk lines parallel to the beads im doing or a piece of strait metal to the side with the same idea to give me a reference line.
> 
> Stu


Excellent point...chalk lines are good, and so is scribing a line with a ruler and something sharp.


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## alloy (May 22, 2022)

I've looked for clear glass pyrex  lenses for my torch but they all seem to be short, and much larger.  Like just a tube of clear plastic.

The pyrex lenses seems like a great idea and I'd like to try it.

I put a picture of my torch up earlier.

What do I need to do to use the pyrex lenses?  I believe the torch is a WP17.

I jsut ordered 15 more 1/8" plates to practice on.  I learned that the woman instructor has a field truck at her work. Am told it's a a large deisel 4 wheel dually.  That's a pretty seriuos truck I'd say.  Someone must be pretty confident in her ability.  We are lucky to have her as an instructor.  She's a very nice younger lady, facial piercings and all.


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## extropic (May 22, 2022)

@alloy 
I've been following along, rooting for you and learning what I can.

I'm barely a novice welder and zero TIG experience.
However, regarding cleaning the coupons and abrasive blasting specifically.
I can't imagine abrasive blasting is acceptable, except as a first step in a multi-step cleaning process.
After blasting, some other mechanical and/or chemical process would have to be used to remove whatever contamination the blasting caused.
For instance, if the blasting media had been used to clean aluminum transmission housings, then used on steel coupons, the coupons would certainly be contaminated with aluminum.

There may be a specific type of blasting media that is appropriate for steel coupons. However, even if used in a "For Steel Only" blast cabinet, it will redistribute some portion of whatever it had removed from the previous part(s).

I think the last mechanical cleaning process is supposed to be a wire wheel or brush, with stainless steel bristles, used only on steel or stainless steel, followed by (at least) a wipe down with Acetone.

I've stuck my neck out here. Welding experts be friendly.


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## Just for fun (May 22, 2022)

I have soaked smaller pieces of steel in cleaning vinegar overnight to remove the mill scale at that point it needs very little cleaning/grinding before you can weld it.  I don't have a bead blaster but there have been times I have sand blasted rusty metal and then finished cleaning with a flap disc then Acitone before welding.

TIG welding is pretty cool, but it needs to be clean.  For my junk pile of metal sometimes it's a lot of work getting things cleaned up before welding, sometimes it's just easier to fire up the MIG and get on with it.

Tim


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## G-ManBart (May 22, 2022)

alloy said:


> I've looked for clear glass pyrex  lenses for my torch but they all seem to be short, and much larger.  Like just a tube of clear plastic.
> 
> The pyrex lenses seems like a great idea and I'd like to try it.
> 
> ...


CK has a pretty good page that shows most of the options for your torch.  I've seen kits on Amazon and eBay that had pretty much everything you need as well.  For most work I prefer the larger diameter gas lens setup....although I hate that people call them "gas savers" since that really isn't what they're intended for.  They give better gas coverage for a given CFH and let you run the tungsten much farther out and if you save a little gas in the process, that's a side benefit.  For a CK17 size torch and general use I like the stubby kits as well...makes them a bit more compact and easy to use.






						Gas Saver Kits - CK Worldwide
					






					www.ck-worldwide.com


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## alloy (May 23, 2022)

Thanks for finding that.  I just ordered a kit from amazon and 10lbs of 1/8" rod. 

 I learned it's easier to use larger rod instead of smaller because you not are feeding so much of it into the puddle.  I also learned that you don't need to use a tig glove on your torch hand.  I had to quit a lot because my hand was getting so hot.  So bought a pair of regular welding gloves.  

I'll grind on the plates I've bead blasted and see if that make any difference.   I can't wait for Friday.  It's just now starting to come together for me and being fun.


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## G-ManBart (May 23, 2022)

alloy said:


> Thanks for finding that.  I just ordered a kit from amazon and 10lbs of 1/8" rod.
> 
> I learned it's easier to use larger rod instead of smaller because you not are feeding so much of it into the puddle.  I also learned that you don't need to use a tig glove on your torch hand.  I had to quit a lot because my hand was getting so hot.  So bought a pair of regular welding gloves.
> 
> I'll grind on the plates I've bead blasted and see if that make any difference.   I can't wait for Friday.  It's just now starting to come together for me and being fun.


Larger filler rod can help cut down on how much you have to feed, but it can cause problems if the amperage isn't high enough to get it to melt the way you want it to.  That can lead to it getting sucked into the tungsten and causing a big mess.

The one thing that seems to make everyone a better TIG welder is practice feeding filler rod.  You'll see this more with aluminum than anything else...you have to really feed the wire quickly because you have to move the torch quickly.  A lot of folks will take a piece of filler wire and practice feeding it both in and out while watching TV or doing other things.  It will pay dividends in the long run...especially when you try thinner wire like 1/16 or smaller.

Something I like better than normal welding gloves is a "TIG Finger" for your torch hand.  Only one or two fingers are in it so you can keep the same level of control on the torch, and handles way more heat than a normal glove.  They aren't always the best solution, so it's good to have both options.  The nice thing is they're cheap!



			https://www.amazon.com/Welding-Tips-Tricks-Finger-Shield/dp/B00GYHT8PG/ref=asc_df_B00GYHT8PG/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167132320688&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10996257175977725345&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9016944&hvtargid=pla-360170564127&psc=1


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## alloy (May 23, 2022)

I have a tig finger but it's clumsy to use.  Especially since I take my gloves off to sharpen my tungsten about 20 times in a 2 hour class. (no joke)  

When I bought the tig welder a few years back it had a tig pen in the box with all the other stuff.  It's nicely made, but so small I can't get the feeding thumb wheel to work when my gloves are on.  I'd like to try one that bigger in diameter. I think with my old decrepit hands it might make it easier for me.

I have been practicing holding the torch and advancing the filler rod.  It has helped some.


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## alloy (May 26, 2022)

Good news about my welding class.  Original instructor is MIA for some reason, no one will say why, but the woman instructor has committed for the next two classes.. I've just paid for both classes.

My gas saver kit is supposed to be delivered today. The 1/8" rod came in yesterday.  Got plenty of it now.

 Do I drop the argon pressure to use it since it has better flow and coverage?  I can't seem to find an answer to that anywhere.


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## G-ManBart (May 26, 2022)

alloy said:


> Good news about my welding class.  Original instructor is MIA for some reason, no one will say why, but the woman instructor has committed for the next two classes.. I've just paid for both classes.
> 
> My gas saver kit is supposed to be delivered today. The 1/8" rod came in yesterday.  Got plenty of it now.
> 
> Do I drop the argon pressure to use it since it has better flow and coverage?  I can't seem to find an answer to that anywhere.


For learning something new I like having a consistent instructor in the beginning.  When you start mixing instructors you often wind up with one liking to do things one way, another liking something different, etc...it can get confusing.  I think her committing is a good thing.

As far as gas settings go, I'm going to add a comment that might sound pedantic, but only because someone down the road might read this and it could help them.

People often use the wrong terms when it comes to regulators, flow meters, gas pressure and gas flow rates.  A traditional regulator shows the tank pressure and lets you adjust the output pressure.  That's what you want for an oxy acetylene torch, but not MIG or TIG welding.  A flow meter shows you tank pressure and allows you to adjust the output gas flow in cubic feet per hour (in the U.S.), but the output pressure is fixed based upon the flow meter model.  Most flow meters have a fixed output somewhere between 20psi and 50psi.  Some flow meters have a bit of output pressure adjustment, but it's not something most people ever mess with. 

Here's where this gets a bit interesting.  For TIG welding, if you're using a flow meter with a 50PSI output pressure you get a pretty big blast of gas when you first start welding.  When you stop welding and the valve closes the lines expand a bit and you actually wind up with more than 50PSI stuck between the tank and the flow meter.  If you have a flow meter with a lower output pressure you don't get nearly as big a blast, which is simply more pleasant, and it saves a bit of gas.  I once welding with an old flow meter that was set for 80PSI output and it was really annoying!  The cheap flow meters everybody sells for $30 to $75 seem to be 50PSI models.  Nicer flow meters that are 20-25PSI tend to be a bit more expensive ($100+) but will pay for themselves over time in gas savings.  The other thing about the better flow meters is that you can get parts for them if you drop them and break the sight tube, etc.

To answer your question about settings, it's actually pretty easy.  Take the cup size you're using and double that to get a starting point for gas flow.  With a #7 or 8 cup I start at 15CFH and see how it goes.  If I drop down to something like a #5 I'll lower the flow to 10-12CFH.  I'd rather have a touch too much gas than not enough...a little too much won't cause problems, but not enough will.  Changing flow rates seems to be more noticeable on aluminum because it changes the width of the etched zone so it's something obvious you can see.  For steel it's not terribly critical...if the beads are clean, you're good.  Stainless is a different animal that can require things like back purging, extra large cups, etc, but in general you'll need more gas coverage than steel or aluminum, so err on the high side for flow rate.

Edit to add:  This is somewhat why I hate that companies call these "gas saver" kits.  While you can probably save a bit of gas using them, the real benefit is that you can run the tungsten much farther out while getting equal of better gas coverage.  Keep the old flow rate and get that tungsten out where you can see it!


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## alloy (May 26, 2022)

Well it's technically a "metal art" class.  You can use any of the equipment you want to as long as your using it safely.  I chose tig. Later I may try mig, or some stick.

There is one lady in there that brings in stacks of scoop shovels and cuts pattern in them, I'm assuming to sell.  I didn't think you could make parts to sell there, but it's not any of my concern. 

Everybody knows everyone, all of them have been taking the class for a long time and are surprised a new guy (me) actually got a spot.  They cap it at 10 students.   Awhile back I donated an old stove to the program for them to use doing powder coating and the guy instructor that's missing got me in I believe. So I got rid of the stove for free, going to a good cause, and got in the class.  A win, win, win for me.

I'll practice maybe this weekend, the pyrex gas saver stuff will be in today.  I'd practice today but I'm going to the muffler shop to get the tail pipes fitted up and welding on my nova, and may have to change my steering box so a full weekend for me..

The original instructor did show me a different way to tig.  I just couldn't do it with the loss of 20% in motion of my arm and hand from the stroke.  So I just dip instead and that's what Natasha likes to do.  Her showing me how to weld towards me was a game changer. I hope the pyrex setup will allow me to go from right to left again.  More comfortable with that, but if not I'll just practice welding towards me.

I have a probably cheap flow meter.  It seems to work I guess.  I think it's currently set and 15 cfm.


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## G-ManBart (May 26, 2022)

alloy said:


> I have a probably cheap flow meter.  It seems to work I guess.  I think it's currently set and 15 cfm.



I've used quite a few of the cheap flow meters without any problems.  I honestly didn't think about it until I bought my Miller and it had a really nice Harris 355 flow meter on it that is a 20PSI model.  I really like the soft puff of gas when I hit the pedal but it doesn't really do anything for quality of weld.


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