# Which of these mills would you buy?



## grover (May 12, 2021)

Hello, I am new to this forum. I worked for 42 years in the metal fab industry. First as a B Fitter,A Fitter and then A Layout (F+W) man, maybe 15 years. Then I transferred to the machine shop starting as Radial drill press operator (16" column) to get on first shift so I could see my daughter more than once a week (plus I got my foot in the door, it was a chess game, being a union official (not me) trumped skill and seniority!), CNC VTL, then I was trained by an older Yugoslavian machine shop manager on a 6"spindle horizontal manual bar (no DRO!). Veneer scale and a flashlight!  Large rock crushing machinery being manufactured. Then another large bar w DRO, CNC lathe (large eccentric shafts), manual radial grinder, and finally settled in on CNC vertical machining centers. The company recently closed their doors. I served them well and they served my purposes well. I worked every bit of overtime. Once I worked 12 hours a day ,7 days a week for 65 days in a row. Paid cash for a new 4WD truck at the end of that little stint! I started when I was 23 in 1978 and they shut it down when I was 65.Kind of a lifetime...right? An earnings lifetime.
I was always able to use "my" machines to work on my government jobs of which I utilized to the fullest. Others ate their lunch, I took advantage of a tremendous opportunity. So much for that.....but you young guys (50 and under pay attention to your future because that's what it was at $30 an hour) So even then you could not go to work and that was it. I am 66 years old. Do the math.

I have a Central Machinery 12x36 lathe which I have setup but have really never used because it was easier to stay an hour over at work and use their tooling and make the mess and clean up there! Same thing with a milling machine. Anything I needed....get foreman's approval .....make a program....use their material and run it on my lunch hour. No more. Glad to not have to punch in every day but I have so many unfinished projects!

So I need/Want a mill.  I most always ran ( last18 years) a CNC vertical machining center Cincinnati MAG .Siemens control.

Help me with advice. I am looking at product availability and customer service also. I am looking at the Grizzly.....G0761, G0755, and G0729.
As far as the G0729 I have new 1.5 hp DC Baldor motors and quality speed controllers with tachometer feedback so if I got tired of belt changes I could switch that out at a later date if it really bothered me.

Sorry to bend your ear with details about my machining history. I truly hope you younger guys make it to retirement age in this industry with the recent political changes.

Thanks for any advice!


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## Aukai (May 12, 2021)

Deja vu all over again


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## Dhal22 (May 12, 2021)

As a plumbers helper the ONLY way to get any heavy equipment experience was to learn on your own during lunch.   If there was equipment on a job, I ate my lunch in the driver's seat.


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## Dhal22 (May 12, 2021)

Whoops,  welcome to the forum.


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## markba633csi (May 12, 2021)

Hi Grover- I'm guessing you've had your fill of cnc and just want to do manual machining for a while? 
Have you looked at the Precision Mathews line of machines?  
There are a lot of older cncs available though if you have room.
-Mark


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## Winegrower (May 12, 2021)

The last thing I would do is buy one of these mills as there are real Bridgeports or clones available for less.


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## Aaron_W (May 12, 2021)

Of the three you listed I'd personally be leaning towards the G0729 as it is a knee mill. There are a few members who have similar mills. Those other mills are larger though, so you trade capacity for the knee. 

I have a Clausing mill of a similar size to the G0729 and it is a nice machine for somebody who doesn't have the room for a Bridgeport. It is also much smaller / lighter weight which is both good and bad (good for moving and fitting into a space). I bought mine when the seller replaced it with a Bridgeport, he liked the little mill but wanted something bigger.

Assuming you are looking for something smaller than a Bridgeport and have a budget around $4000 based on those you listed.

There are three machines from Precision Matthews in that general size and cost, but made in Taiwan which is generally thought to be better quality than Chinese made.

PM-728VT 

PM-833T

PM-833TV


Also agree with Winegrower, if you have the room you can often find decent used Bridgeport style mills for $2000-4000. So much depends on your project needs, space and budget


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## Mitch Alsup (May 12, 2021)

Is there a reason the 8×30 knee mills did not make your cut ? I have one and its great.
The 6×26 mills have a restricted space between the nose and the bed, and people often make a 4"-6" riser between column and head to address this issue. The 8×30 does not have this problem.


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## grover (May 12, 2021)

Winegrower said:


> The last thing I would do is buy one of these mills as there are real Bridgeports or clones available for less.


I was searching on YouTube and saw the rebuild series by H+W Machine repair and it seems like most of these machines that could be had for $2000 or so would be beat to hell. $3000 to clean up the ways and who knows what else would be needed. At this point and for what I might be needing it for it seems like it would be too much of a project for me to handle right now. But I hear you.....Plus I have the DC motors with controllers that I could swap out the 3 phase motor for. That was my original plan until I watched the tear down videos and saw what I could be getting into. Plus I have found nothing near me.


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## grover (May 12, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> Of the three you listed I'd personally be leaning towards the G0729 as it is a knee mill. There are a few members who have similar mills. Those other mills are larger though, so you trade capacity for the knee.
> 
> I have a Clausing mill of a similar size to the G0729 and it is a nice machine for somebody who doesn't have the room for a Bridgeport. It is also much smaller / lighter weight which is both good and bad (good for moving and fitting into a space). I bought mine when the seller replaced it with a Bridgeport, he liked the little mill but wanted something bigger.
> 
> ...


Checked out the PM website and they look good. I have to browse around on their site some more. Why would the knee mill type be better. It seemed the others have similar capabilities. Knee mill table setup =more stability?


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## grover (May 12, 2021)

Mitch Alsup said:


> Is there a reason the 8×30 knee mills did not make your cut ? I have one and its great.
> The 6×26 mills have a restricted space between the nose and the bed, and people often make a 4"-6" riser between column and head to address this issue. The 8×30 does not have this problem.


Most of my projects would be smaller to start with....I am thinking. But I'm sure as soon as I would get a smaller one something would come along where I would be kicking myself for not getting the bigger one. I wish there would be something that was closer to me so I could see it in person. Looking ,maybe something will turn up. With the government looking to outlaw 80% lowers I'm sure that is impacting the market.


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## Larry$ (May 12, 2021)

I've got a 9 X 49 BP clone and find that I often use almost all the Z axis it has. And I rarely work on anything of size. I'm glad I don't have a bench mill because of the Z travel limitations on most. With the table travels locked it is quite ridged. 3 HP on the spindle means no shortage of power.  I really like having the variable speed rather than belt change. Makes it easy to run the tooling at about the correct speed rather than the fooling around with belts. A vote for bigger.


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## Aaron_W (May 12, 2021)

grover said:


> Checked out the PM website and they look good. I have to browse around on their site some more. Why would the knee mill type be better. It seeme the others have similar capabilities. Knee mill table setup =more stability?



Largely personal preference. I've seen some good argument that the bench mill style can be more rigid, but a lot of people like having a knee. My only prior experience was with a mini-mill (Sherline). It took a little getting used to but I have found I like using the knee to bring the work up, rather than bringing the head down. You do pay for it, either of the mills you listed or the 3 PM mills I suggested give you a lot more mill for the same money, or less money in the case of the 728.

Mitch has a good point on the spindle to table on the G0729. I have a 4" riser on my Clausing, which gives me 15-5/8" spindle to table, vs 12-1/2". For small projects that won't be an issue, but that space goes pretty quick when you get a vise and tooling in there, even more so if you are using a rotary table, spin indexer or dividing head on the table.


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## Mitch Alsup (May 12, 2021)

grover said:


> Checked out the PM website and they look good. I have to browse around on their site some more. Why would the knee mill type be better. It seemed the others have similar capabilities. Knee mill table setup =more stability?



With the notion:: "The quill is for drilling and the knee is for milling" I get better bored finishes in my mill by raising the knee than by dropping the quill into the feature. This is do to geometry--the quill has roughly 3" diameter part moving up and down. The G0730 knee has a ~12" tall by ~11" wide set of ways, saddle and gib which is roughly 4× by 3× larger for a massively bigger moment of inertia (a measure of stiffness). It is much easier controlled because it weighs so much more (hint no back-play in the knee whereas there is in the other axis.

I use the knee a lot, I use the quill only for drilling (or light cuts).


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## grover (May 25, 2021)

markba633csi said:


> Hi Grover- I'm guessing you've had your fill of cnc and just want to do manual machining for a while?
> Have you looked at the Precision Mathews line of machines?
> There are a lot of older cncs available though if you have room.
> -Mark


Well I finally decided I better settle on something as this decision process is taking over my life. So I decided on the Grizzly G0761 as it would be good enough for all I will have to do. I went to their website to order and WTF? I last looked at the mill on Thursday ,now on Friday the price increased by $450! Called them and they said tough luck. I know.....that's life.
So I went the PM site and took a hard look at all their offerings. I previously had the notion that they were just overpriced but considering that Grizzly upped their prices and PM didn't PM's seemed like a deal for what they were offering!
I decided on the PM832 with everything but the DRO. That was Friday after they closed for the day. I ordered on the website as I thought they might follow suit and raise their prices on Monday. I was still torn between the PM833T, the PM832 and the PM940 with the hardened table and ways. I liked the hardened ways on the PM940. I liked the one shot oiler on the PM833T, but the PM832 was really all I needed and it would be easier to have delivered than the PM940, and I wanted to get the price locked in.

I figured if the price didn't go up on Monday I could probably change the order seeing as all the machines I was interested in were on back order anyway.As they they say I did a deep dive on all of the information available on you tube, forums ect.over the weekend!

On Monday I looked and their prices did not go up. I called them and they allowed me to change my order to the PM940M-PDF-Hardened Ways and 3 Axis DRO. It is not that much harder to move than the PM832. I really like the hardened way option. After researching the DRO option I figured I needed that for sure and $700 more was not that bad to have them install and add that to the 3 year warranty.

Grizzly's G0755 is now $4300 which is basically a PM 832. No PDF, no hardened ways, no DRO. I am getting the next size larger PM mill with the hardened ways, PDF, and DRO installed for $700 more ($4999). A very good deal! I feel that just the upgrades over the G0755 without the DRO is worth $700 so I'm getting the DRO for free(almost). It won't be here till fall probably. It will take me that long to clean out my garage. Then relax and go fishing while I wait for my new toy.

*Thanks for all the help making this decision!!*


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## T Bredehoft (May 25, 2021)

You'll pat yourself on the back, once  you're up and running.


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## Larry$ (May 25, 2021)

I just looked t the specs, good range of movement. At half the weight of a knee mill & in two pieces,  much easier to move. Also a lot cheaper than a knee mill. Do You give up being able to tilt the head? I have used that for horizontal boring. Fall is a long way away!


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## grover (May 25, 2021)

Larry$ said:


> I just looked t the specs, good range of movement. At half the weight of a knee mill & in two pieces,  much easier to move. Also a lot cheaper than a knee mill. Do You give up being able to tilt the head? I have used that for horizontal boring. Fall is a long way away!


Head tilts 90*left/90*right I believe.......Head Swivel: Side To Side, 90 Degrees (from machine description)

Actually if I had the machine here right now I would be tripping over it. I am in the process of thinning out/transferring possessions and moving to my property in Northern Wisconsin for retirement. I am already retired. Lots to do at this point. But no reason to rush.


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## grover (May 25, 2021)

T Bredehoft said:


> You'll pat yourself on the back, once  you're up and running.


Actually I am recovering from rotater cuff surgery and that exercise is part of my physical therapy. At least 20 times a day!


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## Dhal22 (May 25, 2021)

This is a good hobby to have living in northern Wisconsin.


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## grover (May 26, 2021)

Dhal22 said:


> This is a good hobby to have living in northern Wisconsin.


Winters are long even in SE Wisconsin. My daughter moved to TN then FL. Miss her. She said why put up with this! 
You have to structure you life with the seasons. Life would be boring without seasons.


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## Dhal22 (May 26, 2021)

I would love to live in Florida but I like our mild winter and mild summer seasonal changes here in Georgia.  We might see snow, we might not.  We might see mid 90's, we might not.


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## Larry$ (May 27, 2021)

I lived in a place for a couple of years that only had a wet season and a dry one. Kind of missed the more varied climate. But this last year it got down to -30F here. A bit too much varied!


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## grover (May 28, 2021)

Larry$ said:


> I lived in a place for a couple of years that only had a wet season and a dry one. Kind of missed the more varied climate. But this last year it got down to -30F here. A bit too much varied!


Speaking of changes........yesterday it was 85* and today it was 42* and rain and wind. Good weather to stay inside and search online for tooling I will need for the forth coming mill!


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