# I think I know already, but what would you do with this 101.07301?



## kadams4458 (Aug 22, 2014)

First off, if there is an ugly lathe competition coming up, I think I have a strong contender...

I just don't know what to do with this thing. If it was a horse, it would need to be put down.  Without even getting in to how worn anything is, The headstock was massacred for unknown reasons, none of the gears are present, the compound slide is cracked and missing pieces, and for some reason, someone sliced the countershaft assembly apart. It's like the Josef Mengele of lathes got his hands on this thing. 

I could really use some guidance here, as I'm no expert at evaluating metalworking tools. Please grab a barf bag, or a box of tissues as you see fit, and take a look at the pictures. I would love to hear opinions on what to do with this thing. I did promise to try to see if it could be saved when I acquired it, but I just don't know if it's reasonable, even as a learning experience.

Thanks folks!


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## John Hasler (Aug 22, 2014)

kadams4458 said:


> First off, if there is an ugly lathe competition coming up, I think I have a strong contender...
> 
> I just don't know what to do with this thing. If it was a horse, it would need to be put down.  Without even getting in to how worn anything is, The headstock was massacred for unknown reasons, none of the gears are present, the compound slide is cracked and missing pieces, and for some reason, someone sliced the countershaft assembly apart. It's like the Josef Mengele of lathes got his hands on this thing.
> 
> ...



Use the parts to build something.  How bad are the ways?  The spindle bearings?


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## kadams4458 (Aug 23, 2014)

John Hasler said:


> Use the parts to build something.  How bad are the ways?  The spindle bearings?



I have seen worse ways, but there is just enough wear towards the spindle end to  feel with a finger. I haven't measured it yet, because I am honestly not sure how to best accomplish that. I could ballpark it with a flat piece of stock and some feeler gauges. Would that be a close enough estimate for now? 

Spindle bearings are a tough one. There is obviously movement at the chuck end. Someone hacked the gears off with a grinder without removing the spindle. I have not attempted to remove, inspect, or adjust anything, but I will play with it tonight.


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## kadams4458 (Aug 23, 2014)

Alright, I played with it some more last night.

The ways don't look too bad. Using a straight edge set squarely where the headstock rests, I can't fit a .0015" feeler gauge in to the worst wear areas of the ways. I think I can work with that.

I also pulled the spindle. Some yahoo used the oil fill plug in the pulley to crank the pulley down in eleventy-billion places all over the spindle. It wasn't too difficult to remove, however, since the inside of the pulley looks like it was hogged out with a rasp in a die grinder making for a very loose fit. The bronze bearing on the chuck end looks like it was sanded "smooth" with 80 grit. Oil clearance in that bearing is on the order of a whopping .040 at least, and there are deep grooves worn in the shaft. The pulley is technically salvageable, should I find the means without a working lathe to press in and bore a new sleeve. and surprisingly the thrust bearing isn't obliterated, but there is truly nothing else in the remains of the headstock assembly worth saving.

Any thoughts? I'm not opposed to buying a complete headstock if I can find one for a reasonable price.


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## chuckorlando (Aug 23, 2014)

I dont know if it's worth trying to fix or not. But it could make a sweet set of centers


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## kadams4458 (Aug 23, 2014)

chuckorlando said:


> I dont know if it's worth trying to fix or not. But it could make a sweet set of centers




Well, the headstock is finished being a headstock, certainly. 

My imagination must be broken today from staying up too late playing with this thing formerly known as a lathe. I'm having trouble envisioning making centers from this thing. Would you care to flesh out your vision a bit?


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## chuckorlando (Aug 23, 2014)

only bigger

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-TOOLS-40-PRECISION-BENCH-CENTER-NEW-/330598947141?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf93b9945


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## kadams4458 (Aug 23, 2014)

Ah, yes. I suppose it could definitely become one of those. I will add that option to my list. Thanks, that's a great idea.


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## chuckorlando (Aug 23, 2014)

the large ones even china made are up around 1000 bucks. If you really wanted to put in some work, I suppose it could be any manner of machine tool that needs traversable table. Belt sander or grinder or even some kinda manual scraper deal. But that to me would be doing it for the joy of doing it, not cause it's needed. But it's bout ready made for centers for inspection and lay out or what ever you could find use for


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## Pat of TN (Aug 23, 2014)

I can't offer any help, so my apologies, but I have to say - I cannot possibly fathom why someone would destroy a machine tool like that. My only machine tool is a lathe virtually identical to that one, and it pains me greatly to see the shape yours is in. Whoever did that needs a few thou turned off of their face...


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## kadams4458 (Aug 23, 2014)

chuckorlando said:


> the large ones even china made are up around 1000 bucks. If you really wanted to put in some work, I suppose it could be any manner of machine tool that needs traversable table. Belt sander or grinder or even some kinda manual scraper deal. But that to me would be doing it for the joy of doing it, not cause it's needed. But it's bout ready made for centers for inspection and lay out or what ever you could find use for


 
Definitely interesting. I will continue my quest to keep it a lathe until it is obvious that it would be far beyond cost effective to do so, but I can see some good possibilities now.

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Pat of TN said:


> I can't offer any help, so my apologies, but I have to say - I cannot possibly fathom why someone would destroy a machine tool like that. My only machine tool is a lathe virtually identical to that one, and it pains me greatly to see the shape yours is in. Whoever did that needs a few thou turned off of their face...



I kind of think that someone may have been attempting to turn it in to a wood lathe. Whatever they were doing, I don't think I will ever understand it, but that's okay. I don't think I would want to go too far down that rabbit hole. 

If I can find a headstock, or just another busted up lathe with a salvageable headstock and a few other bits, then I might be able to bring this thing back to life. To that end, I have placed a want ad locally. Who knows, I may get lucky. If nothing else, I have some parts here that I can learn scraping on.


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## chuckorlando (Aug 23, 2014)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Craftsman-A...054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item233e09b976


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## JimDawson (Aug 23, 2014)

Looks like someone had a metal lathe and wanted a wood lathe so they converted it.  What a waste.


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## kadams4458 (Aug 26, 2014)

chuckorlando said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Craftsman-A...054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item233e09b976



Sigh. I wish mine were a 12" model, but sadly, it is merely a 6". That said, I have done research on fleabay. Though no headstocks are current listed for sale, two have been listed in the past three months, so they do appear occasionally. The two example fetched $100 and $150, respectively. I hear stories of folks buying entire 618's for that price, but I'll be darned if they seem to sell for that little in these parts. (The two posted locally that are operable have owners asking $1200 and $2500. Uhm. What?)

What I find most troubling is the number of used spindles and other headstock components routinely available. One has to wonder if sellers aren't just dismantling good headstocks to turn a higher profit, and simply discarding the headstock castings that I so badly need. It seems a 618 is worth more in parts than assembled these days.


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## wa5cab (Aug 27, 2014)

kadams (please sign posts).

In all fairness, almost any mechanical assembly made years ago and still fairly popular today is worth much more as parts than complete.  Spindles and many other parts wear out.  So usable replacements are in some demand.  Headstocks, not so much.  It usually isn't worth the time to write an ad and list such parts.  But what you should do is find a few sellers with a number of 618 or 101.21400 or 101.7301 parts listed and write and ask whether they still have the headstock casting.  If they do, most will be quite happy to sell it to you.  Just bear in mind that the spindle and a few other parts are not the same in the 618 and 101.21400 as they are in the 101.7301.  So if you upgrade to Timken, you will have to buy a few other parts as well.  I'm not suggesting that you can do better work with a 618 than with a 101.07301 if both are in equivalent condition.  You might base your decision upon the condition of the spindle that you have.

Robert D.


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## Round in circles (Aug 27, 2014)

That's an interesting use for a clapped out metal work lathe.

 With a wood work lathe like that you could turn splinters to your hearts content.

 I like the fact that the cross slide  is still almost there a simple " T" piece bolted to the former tool post would make the tool rest .

You could also modify the cross slide arrangement so that you could use the face plate to drive a wood router bit across the face of wood held to the cross slide to make grooves in it 

Perhaps run up a new face plate that will also take a centre screw for bowl turning .


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## kd4gij (Aug 27, 2014)

Looks like some one made a wood turning lathe at some point in it's life.


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## kadams4458 (Aug 27, 2014)

wa5cab said:


> kadams (please sign posts).
> 
> In all fairness, almost any mechanical assembly made years ago and still fairly popular today is worth much more as parts than complete.  Spindles and many other parts wear out.  So usable replacements are in some demand.  Headstocks, not so much.  It usually isn't worth the time to write an ad and list such parts.  But what you should do is find a few sellers with a number of 618 or 101.21400 or 101.7301 parts listed and write and ask whether they still have the headstock casting.  If they do, most will be quite happy to sell it to you.  Just bear in mind that the spindle and a few other parts are not the same in the 618 and 101.21400 as they are in the 101.7301.  So if you upgrade to Timken, you will have to buy a few other parts as well.  I'm not suggesting that you can do better work with a 618 than with a 101.07301 if both are in equivalent condition.  You might base your decision upon the condition of the spindle that you have.
> 
> Robert D.



My apologies for forgetting to sign. Ordinarily I set my signature up when I join a forum, but when I signed up here it was via my smart phone, and the website doesn't play too nice with my phone for some reason. I had meant to create my signature when I sat down at a real computer, but it completely slipped my mind. It's all fixed now, though!

Contacting a seller with multiple pieces listed is a great idea. For some reason, my mind hadn't generated that possibility. I am going to give that a shot as soon as I figure out whether any of my existing parts can be saved.

Thank you for the heads up on the headstock differences. My spindle is pretty trashed, as is the stacked pulley, and of course all of the other parts are completely missing. I will post up some photos of the parts I have and see if the fine members of this forum can tell me whether they are worth bothering with. 

Thanks again for the great idea!


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## kadams4458 (Aug 27, 2014)

So the total of parts left in the headstock are the spindle, pulley, a thrust bearing, and a locking collar, and the two plain bearings. The business end of the spindle isn't too bad, but the rest of it? Well, it's ugly. The sleeve in the pulley? Yeah, that's ugly, too. Ditto goes for the collar. Oddly, the little thrust bearing isn't too bad, but I don't recall ever seeing one of those as part of the original assembly. (Edit: I just found a good pictorial on removing the spindle of a plain bearing 618, and there is a thrust bearing. I am a little smarter today than I was yesterday!)

Amazingly, the keyways in the spindle are fine. Unfortunately, I haven't found much in the way of information on the plain bearing headstock assembly. I don't know what parts are even missing. I don't know what areas of the spindle are critical bearing surfaces besides the obvious two where the spindle attaches at the headstock casting. I don't know a lot of things, and that's the problem.


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## kadams4458 (Aug 28, 2014)

Apparently the pulley and the small gear are supposed to be one piece. Can someone verify that for me, please?


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## wa5cab (Aug 28, 2014)

First, just for the record, contrary to a lot of disinformation floating around the internet, there is no such thing as a plain bearing 618.  "618" is the Atlas model number of the 6x18 lathe with Timken bearings.  101.07301 (and for one brief year 101.07300) is the model number of the plain bearing Atlas built 6x18.

Yes, the spindle cone pulley and small spindle back gear were only supplied as one part, M6-79.  The pulley was apparently modified and moved over to the right into the space normally occupied by the bull gear, presumably keyed to the bull gear key.  I'm afraid that aside from the thrust bearing, I don't see a single usable part in the headstock.

Robert D.


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