# StrongHand Tools Welding Cart...DROOL



## coolidge (Apr 13, 2017)

Looking at larger 3x4 foot welding tables and I saw this new product from StrongHandTools, comes with 66 piece fixturing kit. Seems perfect for me, larger, already on casters for mobility...drool enabled!


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## coolidge (Apr 13, 2017)

Plus its nitride finished rust/spatter resistant  CNC precision drilled, flat to .004 over 12 inches


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## chips&more (Apr 13, 2017)

It ain't cheap! Over $2K!


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## RandyM (Apr 13, 2017)

Here's the link.

http://stronghandtools.com/rhinocart/index.html#detail


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## coolidge (Apr 13, 2017)

$2,200 from Airgas, free freight, could be sitting in my garage next week...thinking...


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## wawoodman (Apr 13, 2017)

Only if it comes with the dude who knows how to weld!


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## ACHiPo (Apr 13, 2017)

coolidge said:


> $2,200 from Airgas, free freight, could be sitting in my garage next week...thinking...



I can't seem to find it through Airgas, but I've found the kit other places for $2500.

I have the woodworking equivalent (Festool MFT), and it's the most used tool in my shop (and probably more expensive by the time clamps etc. are included).  If this would get as much use, I'd definitely pull the trigger.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## dave_r_1 (Apr 14, 2017)

Hopefully they don't have a very good security system, so I can break into their warehouse at night and steal one of them...


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## Eddyde (Apr 14, 2017)

That's a lotta dough, but if you can swing it, go for it!

PS. Good to see you back here on HM!


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## Alan H. (Apr 14, 2017)

ACHiPo said:


> I can't seem to find it through Airgas, but I've found the kit other places for $2500.
> 
> I have the woodworking equivalent (Festool MFT), and it's the most used tool in my shop (and probably more expensive by the time clamps etc. are included).  If this would get as much use, I'd definitely pull the trigger.



When I saw it, I immediately thought about the Festool Multi-functional Table (MFT).  Like you, I use mine often.  

I am betting that baby is heavy!  By the time you buy some more clamps and jigs to go with the kit, you will have some big bucks invested.  Great for TIG welding shop though.  

I have started studying TIG machines.  I have a Miller but it is from the late seventies and a huge honker of a stick/TIG machine.  It's TIG function is not up to speed.  

So now the price for a new TIG setup is escalating rapidly!


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## FOMOGO (Apr 14, 2017)

Very pretty, but too rich for my blood. That kind of accuracy is impressive, but 99.5 % of the work any of us do, it is just not required. For a 1k you can build a much larger, stouter, table, with more flexibility. If your a welder, just build what "you" need, If you want bragging rights, and skinny legs, get out the credit card. JMO. Mike


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## Alan H. (Apr 14, 2017)

Mike, you are absolutely correct.  I cannot justify 75% or more of what's in my shop now.  If I had to financially justify it all, I would be in serious trouble.  My banker (wife) knows that too!   Thank God she is a tolerant soul.

My welding table is outside the shop (under cover) now and I would not really be willing to dedicate the space to one of these in my shop.  So one of these or any new table is not in the cards but it sure is fun to look.


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## Rustrp (Apr 14, 2017)

.004" in 12" is good until you start clamping and then what's the tolerances? It's steel and a really pretty toy. The average piece of steel on the market today is nowhere near the tolerances listed for the table and this is before you place the first tackweld. Now you tack up and weld the project together on one side, so what do you do when it creeps a 1/4" out of square (or dimension) when you unclamp it? When you move it across the shop floor, how do you adjust the surface for accuracy....square, straight edge...? The new trend in welding tables machined from mild steel are the latest **I gotta' have that**gimmick. The same applies to the tables made from 3"-4" wide bar. A piece of 5/8" plate with 5/8" holes drilled on 2" centers, becomes a flexible welding table.

If you really want what this manufacturing company is advertising, buy a Weldsale or Acorn platten/welding table, or buy a piece of steel plate and make one similar yourself.

PS. Looks great for wood projects.


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## Alan H. (Apr 14, 2017)

Most woodworkers would not work on a steel table.


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## Rustrp (Apr 14, 2017)

Alan H said:


> Most woodworkers would not work on a steel table.


I agree. I think it's good for clamping and gluing but you can get the same from a wooden table for a lot less, and you don't end up with stains on your woodwork.


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## coolidge (Apr 14, 2017)

I have a REAL issue with things not being flat, square, and true so the accuracy of this table suits me. If some would rather shim and jigger their stuff together on some half warped rusty steel table more power to them. 

This table goes beyond TIG welding. Slap a piece of laminate on it for wood projects. Carbon fiber laminates. Routing. Soldering. Vacuum forming. Having a thick, flat, heavy table reference just makes things so much easier.


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## coolidge (Apr 14, 2017)

Alan H said:


> I am betting that baby is heavy!  By the time you buy some more clamps and jigs to go with the kit, you will have some big bucks invested.  Great for TIG welding shop though.
> 
> I have started studying TIG machines.  I have a Miller but it is from the late seventies and a huge honker of a stick/TIG machine.  It's TIG function is not up to speed.
> 
> So now the price for a new TIG setup is escalating rapidly!



She weighs in at 425 lbs, about what your average 10" cast iron table saw weighs. We'll see how accurate the table is, the last StrongHand welding table I had was flat to within .002 over 24 inches.


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## coolidge (Apr 14, 2017)

Eddyde said:


> That's a lotta dough, but if you can swing it, go for it!
> 
> PS. Good to see you back here on HM!



Spine surgery, hip surgery, 2 years of constant PAIN is finally behind me thank Christ.


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## Doubleeboy (Apr 14, 2017)

coolidge said:


> Spine surgery, hip surgery, 2 years of constant PAIN is finally behind me thank Christ.



Coolidge, I have been wondering where you have been and wondering if you were okay.  Glad the surgery is behind you.   Thank you again for the 4 jaw chuck you sent my way
cheers
michael


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## Rustrp (Apr 14, 2017)

coolidge said:


> I have a REAL issue with things not being flat, square, and true so the accuracy of this table suits me. If some would rather shim and jigger their stuff together on some half warped rusty steel table more power to them.



I wasn't trying to be a downer on the topic, just stating the facts. The Rhino Cart ad does say nitrided top, reversible? Why someone would want to reverse their welding table top escapes me. Now, other than the fact that the table specs state .004" in 12", what are the tolerances across the width and length?  This would be the same as saying; My surface plate is accurate in this quadrant. The table tops are offered with or without the nitride treatment and the treatment is about the only thing that's going to maintain the tolerances or specs when the tables are being used.

In regard to flat, square and true..................You can't purchase a piece of material that's precision, or even close to those tolerances unless you go to a specialty house, then after you weld on it, it isn't going to be flat square or true. At some point in time, after the tacking is all over, you have to remove the weldment out of the fixture and weld it up. I understand that clamping is one form of controlling induced stress and distortion, but emphasis is controlling, not controlled, because you can't.

I believe in truth in advertising so I would like to see the weldments featured in the Rhino Cart ads or ProBuilt welding tables turned around and fixtured up so the opposite side can be clamped and welded. I'm sure the point in some of the videos are to show the different clamps available (that's their money maker), but many show setups that limit tacking and welding.

I know these tops have become more popular with individuals over the last few years but they are mainly used in production assembly lines for robotics. Marketing says lets sell these to Joe Public, they're cool, along with the professionals always use half warped rusty plate.


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## f350ca (Apr 14, 2017)

Don't think I'll pull this one out of flat. Guessing about 1200 lbs, couldn't lift it with the forks on.






Greg


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## johnnyc14 (Apr 14, 2017)

You won't have to worry about someone stealing that table Greg!


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## coolidge (Apr 15, 2017)

Rustrp said:


> I wasn't trying to be a downer on the topic, just stating the facts. The Rhino Cart ad does say nitrided top, reversible? Why someone would want to reverse their welding table top escapes me. Now, other than the fact that the table specs state .004" in 12", what are the tolerances across the width and length?  This would be the same as saying; My surface plate is accurate in this quadrant. The table tops are offered with or without the nitride treatment and the treatment is about the only thing that's going to maintain the tolerances or specs when the tables are being used.
> 
> In regard to flat, square and true..................You can't purchase a piece of material that's precision, or even close to those tolerances unless you go to a specialty house, then after you weld on it, it isn't going to be flat square or true. At some point in time, after the tacking is all over, you have to remove the weldment out of the fixture and weld it up. I understand that clamping is one form of controlling induced stress and distortion, but emphasis is controlling, not controlled, because you can't.
> 
> ...



*No you're not stating facts*, you are stating opinions that unfortunately are *wrong*. Not trying to pick a fight here, but lets set people straight.

*Fact:* I owned a StrongHands 2x3 foot welding table, nitrided, with the 5/8 thick drilled table plates. What you don't see in the pictures is the construction of the sub-base the table plates are bolted to. It was massive, like 2x3 inch heavy steel tubing, precision ground in the areas the table plates bolted to. Thus its flat and is going to stay flat even under clamping, the sub-base is much more rigid than the plates. Hell the damn thing was so heavy I had to lift it with a engine hoist.

*Fact:* The stated tolerance was .004 in 12 inches, the measured tolerance was better .002 in 24 inches on my table, measured with a precision Starret 24 inch rule. And in fact it was dead flat less than .001 in most areas I measured, the worst was .002.

*Reversible Top* - Why not, have you seen what noob hack welders like me can do to a welding table. Being able to flip the table over after a few years of abuse is a plus in my book.

*Nitride Coating* - The Rhino cart only comes nitride coated from what I can see, there's only 1 part number. It is true their other tables are available both untreated and nitride coated. During my brief foray into wire feed MIG I can tell you the nitride coating came in handy, bits of stuck wire and spatter pop right off with a putty knife.

*Accuracy* - You obviously have not used one of these precision tables so you don't understand the benefits. First off it makes setup WAY faster and easier. Using the locating pins which are in a precision drilled grid you can clamp up your work flat, square and true in a fraction of the time. Have you looked at the warped to **** Miller welding tables? They are a joke, I put a straight edge across one in an AirGas store, it was laughable. I don't want to be fighting both my welding table and welds pulling things out of square. Yes full beads are going to pull things out of square, the pro's adjust for that during setup. I found using shims between my material and the locating pins help with that. Again I'm a hack noob amateur welder, its already so difficult for me I'll take all the help I can get from my table.

FINAL - TBD if this Rhino table is as rigid constructed as their other tables but given the price difference my guess is not. From what I can see in the pictures there's a sub-base at least around the parameter that the top is bolted to. I don't see any counter sunk screws out in the middle of the table which suggest it may not have the heavy sub-base in the middle. But the Rhino cart is priced a lot less than the same size regular table they sell so I expect its probably not built to the same rigid standard. I'm okay with that. This is a compromise for me of mobility, table size, and cost. The regular 3x4 foot table, with casters and the table leg braces would be over $3k, this one is $2,200.


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## Eddyde (Apr 15, 2017)

Rustrp said:


> I know these tops have become more popular with individuals over the last few years but they are mainly used in production assembly lines for robotics. Marketing says lets sell these to Joe Public, they're cool, along with the professionals always use half warped rusty plate.



I respectfully disagree, that "professionals always use half warped rusty plate" What kind of professional welder are you speaking of; some hack working out of their garage (not to say, all garage welders are hacks) or a real pro welding shop? I have been in quite a few of the latter and they usually have Acorn or similar tables costing many thousands of dollars. The more accuracy you start out with the more accuracy you finish with. the finished product may not require .004" per foot precision but it will make the job much easier if your not having to work around the warp in your rusty plate of a table.


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## Eddyde (Apr 15, 2017)

coolidge said:


> Spine surgery, hip surgery, 2 years of constant PAIN is finally behind me thank Christ.


Good to hear you're past that now.


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## coolidge (Apr 15, 2017)

I have emailed StrongHand requesting a cad drawing of the cart to determine if the table is just screwed down to the sheet metal cart or if there's a rigid base under the table.


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## Rustrp (Apr 15, 2017)

Eddyde said:


> I respectfully disagree, that "professionals always use half warped rusty plate"



I said; "Marketing says lets sell these to Joe Public, they're cool, along with the professionals always use half warped rusty plate. "

Marketing, get it! Now if you buy into what they say print in the pretty color brochure, you may respectfully disagree with my comment. I am familiar with an Acorn or Weldsale as I already stated in my comment. Welding is only part of ending up with a weldment pers specs. The bigest hurdle a welder faces in a fab shop is base metal/material arriving per mill tolerances. If the mill runs a piece of 2" x 2" x .188" tube with one of four corners being a different radius than the other three, do you think they care if the table you're counting on to pull you through the project is within .004" tolerance.


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## Rustrp (Apr 15, 2017)

coolidge said:


> *Reversible Top* - Why not, have you seen what noob hack welders like me can do to a welding table. Being able to flip the table over after a few years of abuse is a plus in my book.


Kinda defeats the purpose of precision. If one side is that beat up, precision is gone on both sides, or as the joke goes; Turn er' over, if that makes you happier. 

I read through your comment and nothing stated about mounting mentioned a machined 3"x4" mount and the only difference was nitrided of bare mild steel. Yes the Rhino Cart was offered as nitrided.


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## Rustrp (Apr 15, 2017)

coolidge said:


> *Fact:* The stated tolerance was .004 in 12 inches, the measured tolerance was better .002 in 24 inches on my table, measured with a precision Starret 24 inch rule. And in fact it was dead flat less than .001 in most areas I measured, the worst was .002.


So what you're saying is; Based on tolerance and flat, the top is a waffle with highs and lows.


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## coolidge (Apr 15, 2017)

Rustrp said:


> Kinda defeats the purpose of precision. If one side is that beat up, precision is gone on both sides, or as the joke goes; Turn er' over, if that makes you happier.
> 
> I read through your comment and nothing stated about mounting mentioned a machined 3"x4" mount and the only difference was nitrided of bare mild steel. Yes the Rhino Cart was offered as nitrided.



I give up, you are the all knowing of everything okay. Feel free to start your own thread debunking welding tables.


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## ACHiPo (Apr 16, 2017)

Interesting YouTube videos showing the StrongHand table in use.  I'm skeptical, but again with my experience using the MFT is seems pretty attractive.  Of course with a 3' x 4' full nitrided table, casters, and tooling, probably north of $5k, which is why the Rhino cart seems pretty attractively priced.  I do like the slat approach, however.  If I end up building my own table I plan to do something similar, although without the flatness and multiple tapped holes.


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## Ironken (Apr 16, 2017)

coolidge said:


> *No you're not stating facts*, you are stating opinions that unfortunately are *wrong*. Not trying to pick a fight here, but lets set people straight.
> 
> *Fact:* I owned a StrongHands 2x3 foot welding table, nitrided, with the 5/8 thick drilled table plates. What you don't see in the pictures is the construction of the sub-base the table plates are bolted to. It was massive, like 2x3 inch heavy steel tubing, precision ground in the areas the table plates bolted to. Thus its flat and is going to stay flat even under clamping, the sub-base is much more rigid than the plates. Hell the damn thing was so heavy I had to lift it with a engine hoist.
> 
> ...



Hey, if your pockets are deep enough......go for it! If I had $2200 laying around I would buy more things to make sparks with. The fixturing capabilities are neet looking. As far as worrying about .004" or whatever the surface is good for, that's kinda silly. As soon as you put the smoke to your parts, they are gonna move some restrained or not. As was said earlier, we just try to control the movement or predict what it's gonna do and mitigate the problem. Its cute and has appeal to the hobbyist. Hell, I would be just as happy with a 4x8 very flat hunk of steel.....that's just my opinion though.


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## Rustrp (Apr 16, 2017)

coolidge said:


> I give up, you are the all knowing of everything okay. Feel free to start your own thread debunking welding tables.


Not all knowing, just pointing out the fallacy of something that's promoted as accurate but will not maintain it's accuracy for a myriad of reasons. The main focus here is machining H-M. Machinists take a piece of material that isn't precise and work to make it so, or at least that's the intent. If you want the table and think it's the best thing for you then please spend the money. Welding isn't a precise process, even with precise fit-up. 



coolidge said:


> If some would rather shim and jigger their stuff together on some half warped rusty steel table more power to them.


You said this, I didn't. When it's all said and done at the end of the day will anyone know, or can they tell that your weldment was clamped up on a $2,500.00 table or a piece of plate. Sure enough, the more accuracy you have when you begin your welding project, the better chances are that you may end up with a better product.


coolidge said:


> *No you're not stating facts*, you are stating opinions that unfortunately are *wrong*.


No, I'm pointing out the obvious that you don't see due to your lack of experience so you call it opinion. If you say you lack welding experience and need all the help you can get, I'm in your corner. I'm not going to banter with 4gsr over machining techniques, procedures or the probable outcomes because this is his field of expertise. When he comments on using flux core wire as an electric fence, I know he's deep in the forest without a compass and it's just opinion, and that's really okay too.

I don't know it all, but I do know quite a bit about my trade and I was attempting to point out a few things which were obvious to me in which you seem to take offense.  My main point was a table stated to be within .004" flat in 12". 1). What's going to keep it flat to those tolerances when you clamp up a part, let's say a piece of 2" x 2" x .120" x 36" tube which happens to be out of square or twisted coming from your supplier...as delivered to them from the mill? 2). When you clamp the part does the part move towards the table or does the table move towards the part, or both? 3). I never stated you shouldn't buy it, go for it if you feel good about it, so that's just my opinion. 4). I like the products I fabricate to be accurate too, and I've been doing this for 50 years, and in business for 30+. 5). I stated that I would like to see the weldment turned over and clamped up again after you tack up one side of your project. Take the clamps off after welding and see what you have. 

I enjoy my trade and have many hours invested in education and application. I shear and bend metal to .030" tolerances on manual equipment. My friends and acquaintances shear and bend to .002"-.005" tolerances on CNC equipment, and of course their machining is within .001" or better. What we both know is you don't weld, can't weld to the tolerances you're being sold. The simple act of incorrect tack-up creates a losing game. This is what I work with every day and many times (most of the time) the weldments are too large to clamp to a table. How do I weld them up and keep then square or dimensioned per plan is an every day challenge and it begins with the material I'm working with. 

The nitrided top has it's positives, but what is the thickness of the nitride finish? Is it .002" or .010", and what's the core hardness of the plate? In reverse, tacking accidently (if your skills are poor) to the plate would cause more induced stress than a table top without nitride treatment.  The series of 5/8" holes would make the plate weaker than a solid plate. This isn't opinion, it's fact. Drilling or slitting a plate to facilitate bending is a fabrication technique that's used often and is very common in lighter materials.


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## coolidge (Apr 16, 2017)

Ironken said:


> Hey, if your pockets are deep enough......go for it! If I had $2200 laying around I would buy more things to make sparks with. The fixturing capabilities are neet looking. As far as worrying about .004" or whatever the surface is good for, that's kinda silly. As soon as you put the smoke to your parts, they are gonna move some restrained or not. As was said earlier, we just try to control the movement or predict what it's gonna do and mitigate the problem. Its cute and has appeal to the hobbyist. Hell, I would be just as happy with a 4x8 very flat hunk of steel.....that's just my opinion though.



I made $200,000 last year cost won't be a problem


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## coolidge (Apr 16, 2017)

Rustrp said:


> Not all knowing, just pointing out the fallacy of something that's promoted as accurate but will not maintain it's accuracy for a myriad of reasons. The main focus here is machining H-M. Machinists take a piece of material that isn't precise and work to make it so, or at least that's the intent. If you want the table and think it's the best thing for you then please spend the money. Welding isn't a precise process, even with precise fit-up.
> 
> 
> You said this, I didn't. When it's all said and done at the end of the day will anyone know, or can they tell that your weldment was clamped up on a $2,500.00 table or a piece of plate. Sure enough, the more accuracy you have when you begin your welding project, the better chances are that you may end up with a better product.
> ...



OMG look I'm right and you're wrong, see how simple that was.


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## Tony Wells (Apr 16, 2017)

OK.....this is the end of this discussion. It's not going to change anyone or their opinion. 

Locked, no more comments.


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