# Basic Collet Info



## stomp10 (Dec 14, 2012)

Is there a collet to morse adaptor?  Or is a collet already too big for a morse?

Trying to figure out the whole collet system too.  Each type has its own taper\radius specs? (From the images I'm finding that some use a combination taper and radius on the area that fits the holder.)

Each collet type has its own holder?  Do collet holders then fit a morse, or chucked up?

Apologies, still learning terms too...


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## Richard King (Dec 14, 2012)

You newbie's should buy a Machinist Handbook...I have 2 and have been referencing them for years. They have all you ever wanted to know and then some  about everything Machinery Related.
 I see Ebay and Amazon have them.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...+handbook&sprefix=american+mac,stripbooks,319


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## stomp10 (Dec 14, 2012)

I have a copy of Machinery's handbook-8th edition, (not the same book as yours) but have barely had time to do more than thumb through it.  It's a daunting volume. 

Collets, holders, etc. aren't listed in index. 

 I guess I need a manual for the manual. :whistle:

in fits?

confused right now...


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## Tony Wells (Dec 14, 2012)

There is quite a variety of tapers and collet systems in use on machine tools. It's difficult to get a comprehensive list, but (as much as I really dislike and distrust this source as "authoritative"), here a couple of links that will at least give you some ideas to do further research on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_taper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collet


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## DMS (Dec 14, 2012)

I've never seen a collet to MT adapter. Typically you go the other way. Most machine tools will have a some sort of machine taper in the spindle. The most common types are morse taper (on lathes), R8 taper (on milling machines). On larger machines you get some variation of the 30 or 40 taper. Usually you will either have an endmill holder, a collet holder, or a drill chuck that has a shank that fits the native machine taper. 

Some smaller machines, mostly small mills/cnc routers take an ER collet directly. Most of these are way to small, even for an MT1, and they will take something like an ER16 (max clamping diameter is around 1/4" IIRC).

What are you trying to do, out of curiosity?


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## GaryK (Dec 14, 2012)

stomp10 said:


> Is there a collet to morse adaptor?  Or is a collet already too big for a morse?
> 
> Trying to figure out the whole collet system too.  Each type has its own taper\radius specs? (From the images I'm finding that some use a combination taper and radius on the area that fits the holder.)
> 
> ...




If your spindle has a Morse Taper #5 you can get an adapter from Grizzly.com for about $41.00.

P4026001 COLLET ADAPTER

Gary


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## stomp10 (Dec 14, 2012)

Tony Wells said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_taper
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collet



Thanks Tony. Wiki....
Why didn't I think of that!
That explained a lot.

Dms-I just saw your post.  At this point I'm really not trying to do anything so much as just understand.  Just trying to visualize how a collet is utilized.  Also if it can be used on my lathe.

Mine is an Edelstaal American Machinex5.  Admittedly, not a big seller back in its day but, not a bad lathe either.  it will do the job. Clock sized stuff.

Wondered too if a collet would fit this spindle.  Far as I've read it's an odball 1" 16t male(?) spindle-not sure about the taper, if any yet. Think I'm going to need something machined to update this?

Want to take the chuck off without damaging anything too, but don't have a clue on how, so here's some photos.
	

		
			
		

		
	





Snap ring and two holes in first picture have to be the key to chuck removal...


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## DMS (Dec 14, 2012)

I have not seen your lathe before, but the chuck looks a lot like those used on the Sherline line of lathes. 

Depending on the details, the spindle nose, you may already be setup for a particular type of collet. For example, many watchmakers lathes are designed for WW collets. Hardinge lathes were designed to take 5C collets (no adapter required).

Generally people use collets for a couple reasons.

1) They are very repeatable, so if you need to re-clamp things you can do that, and not sacrifice a lot of accuracy or time. This is doable with a 4 jaw, but you need to dial the part in every time.
2) They are good at holding thin wall parts (IE, tubing) because the force is spread out evenly.
3) They don't mar the like a chuck can (mainly because of #2).

I would try to find out a little bit more about what is behind your chuck if I were you, that would tell you what your options are.

..continued

After typing all that, I looked over at lathes.co.uk, and found this

http://www.lathes.co.uk/machinex/

Looks like you have an MT1 taper in the spindle, which is pretty small, but fits with the overall size of the machine. It looks like it was also set up to take some unknown type of collet, maybe a mfg specific variety, or maybe just something uncommon.

Nice little machine in any case, especially if you have all the accessories.


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## darkzero (Dec 14, 2012)

That looks like a threaded spindle to me, meaning the chuck unscrews from the spindle. The hole on the spindle would be used to hold the spindle but that retaining ring shouldn't have anything to do with removing the chuck from the spindle.


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## stomp10 (Dec 15, 2012)

*Re: Basic Collet and Edelstaal Machinex 5 Info*

DarkZero, I appreciate your observations, I am getting a better big picture now.  Exactly the kind of information I'm looking for

DMS, Thank you for explaining the whys of why collets are used.  That cleared up a lot of questions for me. By design they are in some ways superior to using a chuck.

I had found the www.lathes.co.uk site a year ago when I first bought the lathe.  Revisiting after your link was posted, I see that both the spindle and tailstock spindles appear to be the same, so I'm just going to wrestle the chuck off.  I plan on using a drill bit in the hole on the spindle, and hope I don't have to go the pipe wrench route on the chuck...:yikes:

Maybe something softer would be more appropriate in the spindle hole though.  Have to be careful not to break the bit.
(Edit-Got the chuck off with a drill bit and an adjustable on the jaws-thanks all!-Afterthought....have I just bent my jaws now?  LOL)

I have only cut one piece of steel so far on the machine. A replacement y axis feed screw that came snapped off.  Probably the grease was never cleaned off of the feed screws when it was new, as it looks like a torsional break on the original.  Have cleaned the feed screws with gun oil and a toothbrush several times and they are pretty smooth now.  What kind of lube is correct in this situation? 

The feed screw is 1/4 20 thread and the shank turned down to 3\16ths to fit thru the hole in the faceplate and accomodate the hand wheel.  No threading capability on this machine, so I went with the cheapie hardware store threaded rod and went from there. Light, light cuts and the sharpest tools are requirements for this machine.  Mix with a good deal of patience, and don't get rushed.  I can produce the desired results.  Good thing I'm not getting paid by the piece though.  It would be tough to make a living if this was my only means...

Actually, this is all so I won't be sitting home staring at the walls once I hit retirement in a few years.  I'm one of those people that is unable to sit and do nothing.  Have to keep my mind and hands busy almost all the time.  I'm never bored, always like to learn new things.

Anyway, thank you everyone for your time though.  Always glad to have advice from the experts.  Hope I am able to return the favors someday.


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## darkzero (Dec 15, 2012)

Good to hear you got it off!


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## stomp10 (Dec 15, 2012)

It does look like a collet fitting on the headstock.  I have the tools to make measurements.  Any way to figure out what kind by measuring?


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## bhowden (Dec 16, 2012)

I have been keeping my eyes open for a set of ER-40 collets.  One thing I don't understand is I seem to see sets of 23 (24) and sets of 15.  Do some collets cover a wider range than others?  Does the smaller set leave gaps?  The minimum and maximum are the same for both sets.

Brian


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## todd774 (Dec 17, 2012)

Here's a pretty good web sight. It has some good collet information among other good machinist info. for anyone interested.
http://shopswarf.orconhosting.net.nz/sindex.html


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## stomp10 (Dec 17, 2012)

Well, this spindle has a straight 5/8" bore with the collet taper diameter of 11/16ths".  Some propietary do-dad.  I miraculously found an Edelstaal set of 5 on Ebay today.  Can't afford it but felt that I may not see another set for a long while.

You guys really helped me out, and I really apperciate that.  I would have had a hard time figuring that out solo.
And still so much to read..... Love it!

Now to figure out what collets for the dividing head....

This has become the thread for newbies wanting to know all about collets!


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## raross61 (Jul 6, 2013)

GaryK said:


> If your spindle has a Morse Taper #5 you can get an adapter from Grizzly.com for about $41.00.
> 
> P4026001 COLLET ADAPTER
> 
> Gary



Holly &*^( went on the website tonight and they say this p/n is $95.00 !!! The good point is they do say they have it in stock now! I guess they figured out we are all building our own collet closer's and this part is the only hiccup in the deal!    Take Care Bob in Oregon


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## epanzella (Jul 9, 2013)

I just bought the grizzly 5mt to 5c adaptor a few weeks ago for $98.  I also bought their drawbar for about $40.


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## Dave Smith (Jul 9, 2013)

According to the article on your lathe--it has a 1"x16tpi spindle thread on the head spindle and the same on the tail spindle--the tail spindle has an internal mt1 taper. It said the headstock spindle was 9/16" bore and had a steep taper for unknown collet.   *did you get any collets with your lathe or a drawbar to pull the collets in? also did you get a 1"x16tpi threaded collet nose piece? your lathe sure looks nice in the pictures. if you can get a manual on your lathe it should have all the information you need--maybe some of the members have a model like yours that can help you figure everything out.  --Dave)


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## stomp10 (Jul 10, 2013)

Dave Smith said:


> According to the article on your lathe--it has a 1"x16tpi spindle thread on the head spindle and the same on the tail spindle--the tail spindle has an internal mt1 taper. It said the headstock spindle was 9/16" bore and had a steep taper for unknown collet. *did you get any collets with your lathe or a drawbar to pull the collets in? also did you get a 1"x16tpi threaded collet nose piece? your lathe sure looks nice in the pictures. if you can get a manual on your lathe it should have all the information you need--maybe some of the members have a model like yours that can help you figure everything out. --Dave)



Thanks, Dave... A few months down the road and a few more things learned.
I did get the collet set on ebay and then miraculously a collet capture nut came up a month or so later. Bought them both.

Still in the process of setting up the shop. Still need to wire up some lighting, but have all the receptical wiring finished. 35' of workbench..... I think I am in heaven, although I had to fight to reclaim the basement.... threw a lot of crap out.

Just tell the kids that the rest of their stuff is at the curb.... lol.

Have 35 years of tools, hardware, and what have you to sort through and organize somehow...

Then I may even be able to think about learning how to use the lathe....

Always on the lookout for something new to spend my non existant cash on too...  Champagne tastes on a beer budget...  Story of my life, I think.


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