# HEEEEELP



## Bill Gruby (Nov 23, 2014)

Applying for a "Patent". Has anyone here done this.  I just tried to find what I need on the Patent Office Site. It is a NIGHTMARE. What is involved here?

 "Billy G"


----------



## Mark_f (Nov 23, 2014)

Bill Gruby said:


> Applying for a "Patent". Has anyone here done this. The new project ( Catfish Rod Holder) seem to be shaping up into something I would like to have all rights to. I just tried to find what I need on the Patent Office Site. It is a NIGHTMARE. What is involved here?
> 
> "Billy G"




   I was going to apply for one some years ago and it was such a nightmare , I quit and gave up. I had a friend who had several patents , but I never new how he did it. I think he had help. There are some services that help with patents but I was always afraid they would cheat me somehow and I would lose somewhere along the line ( cause you know they don't work for free). I don't envy anyone trying to do it themselves. I think you need a lawyers help and that is when you start dishing out cash. I know my friend had to put out to get his and later he sold a couple of them. I know that not much help, but good luck.

Mark frazier


----------



## schor (Nov 23, 2014)

Bill, its not easy and not cheap to get a patent. I have one but luckily my company paid for everything.

If you really want to go down that road, check out one of the patent services, they know what to do and would most likely be your cheapest route. I would guestimate that you could be in the $10,000 range to get the application and final patent done. If you do everything yourself then you will be paying $900 to file the application.


----------



## David S (Nov 23, 2014)

Bill, it may be too late.  I have a few patents that the company paid for and were always told to never disclose it outside the company until the patent application had been filed.

David


----------



## Bill Gruby (Nov 23, 2014)

I didn't think of that David. I edited part of my first post. 10K is a lot of money.

 "Billy G"


----------



## SG51Buss (Nov 23, 2014)

Been there, done that.  Bill, it pains me terribly to rain on your parade, but this is something not to be pursued lightly and uninformed.  Seriously, a money-pit black hole.  It's claimed that the majority of individual/inventor patents are 'vanity' patents, showing that the value of the patent is more in the bragging rights than in the productization, the new reality.  From what I've researched, many monitarily successful patents are designed to be bought, like the way the automakers gobble-up auto gadget patents.  Not necessarily to implement, but to pidgeonhole the things to protect their industry.  There is a lot of "slap in the face" reality info out there.

http://www.dontfileapatent.com/


----------



## wrmiller (Nov 23, 2014)

I too have had several, but they were done through my work so can't help with trying to get one by yourself. I've heard horror stories though (like those above).


----------



## Bill Gruby (Nov 23, 2014)

I have a friend that is a corporate lawyer. I will see him this week. Maybe there are other options? Thank you for the replies.

 "Billy G"


----------



## John Hasler (Nov 23, 2014)

Apply for a "provisional patent".  It is simple, inexpensive, and gives you protection for a year, by the end of which you must have applied for a utility patent.  During that year you can sell your patent to a company that will get the utility patent or raise money to pay a patent attorney to handle it for you.

[Edit] The USPTO calls it a "provisional application".


----------



## SG51Buss (Nov 23, 2014)

Here's an example:

http://www.google.com/patents/US20110225870

These things retail for less than $30.  A successful business model has the manufacturing costs at 1/6th the retail price.  Can these be made for $5 each?


----------



## JimDawson (Nov 23, 2014)

Bill, my last patent cost me $15K, but it did involve some hi-tech stuff.  For a consumer type item like yours, I wouldn't worry about a patent, just produce the product and be happy.)

IMHO, a patent is only useful to document the transfer of intellectual property in a sale.  As far as protection, they are worthless unless you have the money to defend the patent in court.

DO NOT use one of those ''patent services'', they are a total rip off, and completely useless.


----------



## gr8legs (Nov 23, 2014)

There is an excellent resource for prosecuting you own patent - probably available from your local library for free or from the source for about $40.

"Patent It Yourself" from Nolo Publishing - <http://www.nolo.com/products/patent-it-yourself-pat.html>

I used this resource in getting a patent a couple of years ago and it is wonderful. Truthfully, you may end up with a 'vanity' patent but the process itself, although a bit convoluted, is certainly doable by a non-attorney. 

The provisional patent gives you a year to check on the commercial viability of the product and gives you instant 'patent pending' status.


----------



## BeltFedPlus (Nov 23, 2014)

I currently have a non-provisional design patent in process. I filed all my paperwork and drawings online and I'm at the examination stage. The total cost at this point has been $235. I filed for a micro organization exemption which cuts about 70% of the cost out. There is a wealth of information on the USPTO website and the only issue that I had was registering myself as a user in the USPTO system which allows me to check daily where my patent is in the process and to that end, I was on the phone for about an hour with the USPTO support group. After that the system works really well. If you need more information, you can PM me or contact me at theim@beltfedplus.com


----------



## David S (Nov 24, 2014)

Bill the other thing is that you have to consider - what it is you wish to patent.  Is it a design patent as in the shape / form, or a utility patent that is a novel idea, never been done before, or a neat feature or an extremely cost effective way of making something that if patented would cause others grief as a work around and could cost them more to manufacture.

Before we applied for a patent on what we were designing we had to to a search for any prior art to make sure that WE weren't violating some one else's patent as part of our planned design.

David


----------



## genec (Nov 24, 2014)

Number one you get hold of a patent Atty.
Number two you give him a whole bunch of money.
Three he fills out your application and sends it in
Four this seems to take forever before you hear back from the gov't
Five you get your patent, but while all this was taking place somebody came up with a better idea that is cheaper
Six absolutely nothing prevents anyone from copying your idea and using it except you going after them in a court of law
In my opinion not all things are worth getting a patent for.


----------



## SG51Buss (Nov 24, 2014)

gr8legs said:


> There is an excellent resource for prosecuting you own patent - probably available from your local library for free or from the source for about $40.
> 
> "Patent It Yourself" from Nolo Publishing - <http://www.nolo.com/products/patent-it-yourself-pat.html>





BeltFedPlus said:


> I currently have a non-provisional design patent in process. I filed all my paperwork and drawings online and I'm at the examination stage. The total cost at this point has been $235. I filed for a micro organization exemption which cuts about 70% of the cost out. There is a wealth of information on the USPTO website and the only issue that I had was registering myself as a user in the USPTO system which allows me to check daily where my patent is in the process and to that end, I was on the phone for about an hour with the USPTO support group. After that the system works really well...



Playing catch-up here, I just learned, by looking at that revised NOLO publication, that a recently passed  "America Invents Act", implemented only last year, includes a new provision for a "Micro Entity" application, which cuts costs up to 75%.  Well, that is certainly a game-changer.  I may have to dust-off and review some old ideas.

http://www.uspto.gov/aia_implementation/fees.jsp


----------



## 12bolts (Nov 25, 2014)

Bill,
Have a read up on Robert Kearns, inventor and patent holder of intermittent wipers for cars.

Cheers Phil


----------



## BeltFedPlus (Nov 25, 2014)

SG51Buss said:


> Playing catch-up here, I just learned, by looking at that revised NOLO publication, that a recently passed  "America Invents Act", implemented only last year, includes a new provision for a "Micro Entity" application, which cuts costs up to 75%.  Well, that is certainly a game-changer.  I may have to dust-off and review some old ideas.
> 
> http://www.uspto.gov/aia_implementation/fees.jsp



The Micro Entity provision certainly is a game changer. As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm into a design patent for $235. This really puts inventing and patenting in the realm of the hobby machinist/inventor. The addition of the ability to file online brings down the cost as well and just makes it easier. I did all my drawings on blue line graph paper and scanned them in black and white which eliminates the blue lines and the drawings come out really nice. An additional thought about this process is that I spent nearly a year making tooling to produce a workable unit before I even started the patent process.


----------



## Bill Gruby (Nov 25, 2014)

I have decided not to persue it. I used other designs to put it all together. Even though I improved on them, they still belong to someone else. Thank you all for the info I received.

 "Billy G"


----------



## caster (Nov 25, 2014)

How appropriate that I get this email...

Please note that the company is based in India....:nervous:

Warm Greetings from PatentManiac Consulting!
We (http://www.patentmaniac.com) are a *Patent Research & Analytical Service *firm. For the last 4 years, we have been delivering high quality solutions at nominal cost with quick turn-around time. 
Please find below a brief overview of our patent services *–*

*Patent Search** - $400-$500*
*Patent Application Drafting** - $2200-$2500*
*Patent/Product Infringement Analysis** - $400-$500*
*Patent Invalidity Search**- $1200-$1400*
*Patent Landscape Analysis** - $2500-$2700*
*Patent Office Action Response** - $700-$800*
*Patent Re-Exam Response** - $700-$800*

Please contact us at harry.jolly@patentmaniac.com for further discussions.
With kindest regards
Harry Jolly
Business Development Manager
Skype ID: harry_jolly
harry.jolly@patentmaniac.com

PatentManiac Consulting Pvt. Ltd*.*
28/6, Suite II, 
Ashok Lane, 
New Delhi 
Indi


----------



## JPigg55 (Nov 25, 2014)

IMHO,
It sickens me how big business and lawyers have corrupted the very system that allowed them to get where they are.
Think of the inventors of old, average "Joes" who came up with an idea and/or product, patented it , and be protected.
Some would say it's the same today, but just reading this thread and looking at the references, I'd argue not. If it were so, how was it that an average American with little means in the way of money, information access (no internet), and education could file for a patent, get it, and either sell the rights or produce it themselves.
Looking at the price schedule, even as a Micro Entity, it looks to be in the tens of thousands of dollars by the time it's said and done. Everyone who posted here (except for a couple) with a patent filing had the same story..."It was done through my work".
I work with a guy who invented a product idea and prototyped it. It was a product associated with a work related process. He approached the company with the product and they approved it, filed the patent, and started producing it. What did he get for his time and effort ? His name listed on the patent and $1 for his trouble.
With big business and lawyers putting a choke hold on innovation in this country, no wonder it's going in the toilet !
Again, IMHO, a patent isn't worth the paper it's written on unless you have $Million Dollar$ deep pockets and a google of lawyers to back it up unless it's something that wouldn't be worth their time and money to steal from you.


----------



## WDG (Nov 25, 2014)

JPigg55 said:


> IMHO,
> It sickens me how big business and lawyers have corrupted the very system that allowed them to get where they are.
> Think of the inventors of old, average "Joes" who came up with an idea and/or product, patented it , and be protected.
> Some would say it's the same today, but just reading this thread and looking at the references, I'd argue not. If it were so, how was it that an average American with little means in the way of money, information access (no internet), and education could file for a patent, get it, and either sell the rights or produce it themselves.
> ...



If your friend got a dollar he did pretty good.  Back in the 60's I worked on a project and all I got was my name on the patent.  I didn't do it all myself but I didn't get anything either.


----------



## f350ca (Nov 25, 2014)

I worked for a large oilfield service company that designed and at one time manufactured all our downhole and surface reading equipment. Most of the manufacturing is farmed out now. They patented virtually nothing but chose to keep our innovations and designs proprietary. Once a patent was applied for its common knowledge.


----------



## GA Gyro (Nov 25, 2014)

Interesting thread! 

The part about the guy that invented intermittent wipers for cars.... is a good (albeit SAD) read...
Big corps are not the most honest folks.

IMO the way to make $$$ from a new idea... is to be the first one on the market, and make your $$$ quickly... that is, before someone else modifies it and puts it on the market.
They will, whether or not it is patented... and it will be YOUR responsibility to fund the litigation to stop them.  
Better hope you are selling a ton of your new gadget.

What was that phrase we used to laugh at:  "... first we kill off all the lawyers... "  :rubbinghands:


----------



## Weldingrod1 (Jan 1, 2015)

This is a big part of what I do professionally; I have 20+ patents.  So, I'll take a stab at this...
  Fyi, you haven't disclosed anything relevant to patentability yet on this forum, so you are still safe!  A provisional is exactly the right tool I you are looking to sell it, or want to check marketability first.  You basically package up everything you can think of relevant to your invention (that you are prepared to have published) and send it to the patent office.. Along with the right paperwork.  That sets your intellectual "stake in the sand" and starts a one year clock.  At the end of the year you file the real thing (or don't).  Everything in the real application MUST tie back to material in your provisional, FYI.  Remember, the provisionsl material will be PUBLISHED by the USPTO after one year, just like everything else you send them.


----------

