# Business Software Recommendations



## Ray C (Jan 10, 2014)

In 2014, I plan to do more shop work using the LLC.  Up until now, I haven't been using any business software like quickbooks etc...

Anybody have thoughts about decent packages suitable for this?  I am not into the "cloud computing" thing yet and want a package that installs on my computer and stores data locally.

Last year, I did the taxes manually.  I'd like a package that does the taxes and other basic things like Capital Equipment, Inventory Stock, Billing and Invoices.

Any Ideas or Suggestions?  It seems like QuickBooks has cornered the market but maybe there's other good packages to consider too.


Ray


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## xalky (Jan 10, 2014)

Ray, As you know, I'm self employed. I've tried quick books and a couple of others. I probably spent $1000 on different software solutions over the years. They just don't work for me. Too complicated for a one man show. 

I have a checking account for my business with a debit card. Everything that's business related just runs thru that account. At the end of the year I go thru my statements with colored Highlighters, a different categorie for each color. I bring my accountant the category totals and he works his tax magic after that. 

I'm pretty good at making money and I always know what I have in my account, what bills are coming, and what checks are coming. I would have to be running some major #s and have 4-5 employees and a bookeeper before I even considered using softyware. Even then, I would hire someone to run it, I want absolutely nothing to do with taxes and bean counting. ) But, thats just me. I can't stand the minutia of it all, I'd rather go have all my teeth pulled with an ice pick!:lmao:

I've been doing it this way for 25+yrs. So far so good.

Marcel


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## tripletap3 (Jan 10, 2014)

The one thing that I had found that is once you look past the QB level of software things get real expensive and complex quick. You can very easily find that you are working for the software and not the software working for you. For the price and ease QB is very hard to beat.


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## Ray C (Jan 10, 2014)

Well, I just ordered and installed QB 2014 Pro.  I'm in the process of creating the hourly labor rates for different services.  It has a start-up wizard that's working well so far but, I fully expect to screw it up and re-do it a few times.   It's all good but, I need to get the basics of this down soon as I've got a bunch of work lined-up for February.

.... Marcel,  I have to do this myself instead of hiring a CPA/Accountant etc...  Your business is enough to sustain a livelihood whereas I'm playing Romper Room.  I don't clear enough to get the attention of a CPA/accountant.  Also, I'm terrible about handling papers and putting them in folders but, I'm very disciplined at immediately logging receipts and keeping things organized on the computer.  I don't necessarily like it but, I'm disciplined about it...


Ray


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## n3480h (Jan 10, 2014)

Ray C said:


> Well, I just ordered and installed QB 2014 Pro.  I'm in the process of creating the hourly labor rates for different services.  It has a start-up wizard that's working well so far but, I fully expect to screw it up and re-do it a few times.   It's all good but, I need to get the basics of this down soon as I've got a bunch of work lined-up for February.
> 
> .... Marcel,  I have to do this myself instead of hiring a CPA/Accountant etc...  Your business is enough to sustain a livelihood whereas I'm playing Romper Room.  I don't clear enough to get the attention of a CPA/accountant.  Also, I'm terrible about handling papers and putting them in folders but, I'm very disciplined at immediately logging receipts and keeping things organized on the computer.  I don't necessarily like it but, I'm disciplined about it...
> 
> ...



About to do this soon myself, as supplemental retirement income.  I'll be very interested in how the QB works out for you, Ray.

Tom


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## Ray C (Jan 10, 2014)

Certainly, it is too soon for me to officially make a claim but, so far, so good.  The program installed with no problems and I've made it through all the basic setup wizards.  I'm creating dummy contacts, estimates and invoices etc and it's all gone well.  In the next couple days, I'll try to do more advanced things and I'll utilize the inline tutorial.  Everything I'm doing is intended to be throw-away -just for practice.  At the end of the month, I'll try to have it setup with more serious intentions.   BTW:  As part of the purchase price, you also get an account with them and there are more advanced tutorials and studies available as part of the package.

My initial thought so far is "yes, this will work just fine".  I know a good number of people who started their business using QB so, I certainly think it will work for my simple needs.

Ray




n3480h said:


> About to do this soon myself, as supplemental retirement income.  I'll be very interested in how the QB works out for you, Ray.
> 
> Tom


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## Tony Wells (Jan 10, 2014)

I worked for an outfit that unbrella'd 13 companies with QB, and an onboard CPA. Worked fine for them. I don't see any problem with a one man show. My brother uses it, and is a corporation....loves it.

I used to love a program called JobBoss, but it's hardly a practical solution for a one man shop. Fully featured, dedicated to manufacturing. I used DBA for my own business, but tired of the subscription every year, so just keep an advanced spreadsheet for the finances. Everything else is on paper, but I do scan all documents in for retrieval.


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## Terrywerm (Jan 10, 2014)

I used Quicken for my business. Yes, I know, it is not really an accounting package, but, like Marcel, everything for the business went through that account. I created the categories I needed, and every expenditure was assigned to the appropriate category. I could run reports whenever I wanted, for whatever time span I wanted, then pass them to my accountant. He loved what I gave him because everything was laid out for him, and it made his job much easier which also saved me money.

Quick Books is similar, but much more robust. I looked at it and considered it, but it was far more than I needed for my business. It does interface very will with Quicken, however.

The earlier comment about packages any 'higher' than QB getting very expensive very quickly is correct. I worked with Great Plains accounting software for a while (pre-Microsoft), and it was buku bucks.


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## GK1918 (Jan 11, 2014)

Again I well may be way off on what you are looking for Ray.   But what about those things advertised on TV that you throw all your papers in the
thing - it puts them into a proper location prints it all separated -business / house bills.   So you bring  a couple sheets of paper to the tax guy instead
of like me , bringing  a shoebox.  Inexpensive I'm thinking about getting one.   Suppose its some kind of scanner= secretary thing. 
does this help. 
                             question?  how does this thing know a (truck gas bill) from a (house) gas bill?  got no clue 
sam


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## Ray C (Jan 11, 2014)

Those scanners are just copy machines and they don't know the difference from one file to the next.  I think those would be helpful when you have a lot of paper receipts but in my case, I'm looking for software to keep track of State tax etc.


EDIT:  But now that I think about it, those scanners are pretty cool and would reduce paper clutter by a mountain full.

Ray






GK1918 said:


> Again I well may be way off on what you are looking for Ray.   But what about those things advertised on TV that you throw all your papers in the
> thing - it puts them into a proper location prints it all separated -business / house bills.   So you bring  a couple sheets of paper to the tax guy instead
> of like me , bringing  a shoebox.  Inexpensive I'm thinking about getting one.   Suppose its some kind of scanner= secretary thing.
> does this help.
> ...


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## Tony Wells (Jan 11, 2014)

the idea of storing electronic copies of all documents is a good one. I'm not convinced that "As Seen On TV" scanner is as smart as they want you to think. I believe you manually have to enter a lot of the data to make it a searchable database, as they present. OCR software just isn't intelligent. 

I have a system of sorts where I assign every job that comes in a number, and create a directory (folder) that will eventually contain every document associated with doing the job. That means a quote from the beginning, PO, a drawing, all MTR's, PO's for purchasing materials and at the end, a cost analysis for the job, sort of a P&L on a job by job basis. That helps me determine how well I did or didn't do on that job. I do not cost out every expense on a job basis, such as misc tooling. It's not practical in my case to buy a box of inserts and try to cost out how many edges or inserts I wore out, or how many times a drill was sharpened, etc.. Unless it is a special piece of tooling that had to be bought for a job, and I need to remember that next time the job comes around (if it does), it goes into General Tooling Costs.

Electronically, I can search the DB by date, Customer, PN, or PO. My system is more oriented towards the shop side of things than the accounting side.....a weakness that I should someday address. Quarterly, I still have to do some manual work of tracking Invoices and COGS, that sort of thing. Since I don't do work for the general public, I collect no sales tax....my customers are all resellers. I still file a zero taxable sales report, however. There is a fine for not filing at all, even if you collect nothing.


I'm getting sidetracked....sorry


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## Ray C (Jan 11, 2014)

A great discussion...  -not sidetracked at all.

I'm not even going to tell you how late I was up last night learning and playing with this QuickBooks.   It can do a lot of stuff and I haven't scratched the tip of the iceberg -and it hasn't crashed the computer yet.  Anyhow, it no-doubt uses a database at the backend and you can include any/all documents you want with a particular job and that's important for the sake of accountability and completeness.

As far as this LLC is concerned, I have no intention of letting things get out of control from the get-go.  I may have forgot to mention that I setup a different LLC (aside from my previous PLC) just for the shop.  If all goes well, the state will approve it on Jan 16 or 17.  This is all being driven by a desire to do things right -for the sake of the two places that farm-out work to me. 

Anyhow, I'm re-researching all the necessary steps in (properly) running a small business.  I've seen first-hand a few people start a business and let it get out of control with lost receipts, incomplete paperwork at tax time etc.... It caught up with them and cost a pound of flesh to get it back under control.

Ray





Tony Wells said:


> the idea of storing electronic copies of all documents is a good one. I'm not convinced that "As Seen On TV" scanner is as smart as they want you to think. I believe you manually have to enter a lot of the data to make it a searchable database, as they present. OCR software just isn't intelligent.
> 
> I have a system of sorts where I assign every job that comes in a number, and create a directory (folder) that will eventually contain every document associated with doing the job. That means a quote from the beginning, PO, a drawing, all MTR's, PO's for purchasing materials and at the end, a cost analysis for the job, sort of a P&L on a job by job basis. That helps me determine how well I did or didn't do on that job. I do not cost out every expense on a job basis, such as misc tooling. It's not practical in my case to buy a box of inserts and try to cost out how many edges or inserts I wore out, or how many times a drill was sharpened, etc.. Unless it is a special piece of tooling that had to be bought for a job, and I need to remember that next time the job comes around (if it does), it goes into General Tooling Costs.
> 
> ...


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## xalky (Jan 11, 2014)

I'm incredibly undisciplined when it comes to keeping track of reciepts. I prefer to do what people actually hire me for. I agree with the previous comment about the software should serve you and not the other way around. For me the simplest easiest solution, because I'm simple and easy:biggrin:, is to just run everything through the checking account. I also have a few credit cards that are specifically for business use only, that also get paid through that account. My method is absolutely nothing like a searchable database, but it sure is simple. )


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## xalky (Jan 11, 2014)

I do understand the need to be organized. In most areas of my life, I'm extremely organized, but in this area, that's the best I can do.:whiteflag: I have some sort of serious mental aversion to paperwork, I might need to go see a shrink about it.:lmao:

Marcel


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## Terrywerm (Jan 11, 2014)

xalky said:


> I do understand the need to be organized. In most areas of my life, I'm extremely organized, but in this area, that's the best I can do.:whiteflag: I have some sort of serious mental aversion to paperwork, I might need to go see a shrink about it.:lmao:
> 
> Marcel



So Marcel, are you saying that all we need to do to send over the edge is mail you some miscellaneous receipts???  :rofl:


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## xalky (Jan 11, 2014)

terrywerm said:


> So Marcel, are you saying that all we need to do to send over the edge is mail you some miscellaneous receipts???  :rofl:


 YES!! But, if i can't figure out what they're for within about 30 seconds or so, I file them in the circular bin aka(garbage) , that's my favorite file! It's also my way to cope. 

 Also, anything to do with insurance, taxes or of an otherwise bureaucratic bullshot nature will also put me into a panic attackanic:!:rofl:  Do you think I need professional help?

I've gotten my revenge on insurance though. Most of my work comes from homeowner insurance claims. :lmao: If could only figure out how to get payback for all the governmental crap, I'd be a happy camper.)


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## Ray C (Jan 11, 2014)

Well, the fun just began...  Now I'm looking at the State, County and Local licenses and Taxes.  -So much circular non-sense...  After about 4-5 passes though it all, it's beginning to distil down to just a few things but the information is hard to sort out.  -Taking a break on that aspect now and am going to focus on a different topic for a while.


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## AlbertNakaji (Jan 11, 2014)

I also do what Xalky said: 





> I have a checking account for my business with a debit card. Everything that's business related just runs thru that account. At the end of the year I go thru my statements with colored Highlighters, a different categorie for each color. I bring my accountant the category totals and he works his tax magic after that.


, except that I have a credit instead of debit card.

I used to do my own taxes, but when I got married and my wife and I filed jointly, we used her accountant and I was amazed at how much I'd been losing in taxes over the years.  Find a good accountant (expensive doesn't necessarily mean good), and for small accounts the cost isn't very high.  The savings in taxes, however, can be substantial.


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## Kennyd (Jan 11, 2014)

Subscribed with great interest Ray,

I too am thinking about QB as my small LLC continues to grow, last year (12) I just had a basic list on a ledger, but now I am trying to get 13 done and seriously considering QB.  What version did you get?

On the whole "neat" scanner thing that's advertised on TV, maybe I just don't get it, but it's not like your going to actually throw away originals of important documents, I don't see the piles going away...while it might be nice for business cards or non critical paperwork, I just don't see the point.

As we get more digital, please remember a backup!  I use Carbonite myself, the piece of mind it provides is worth every penny to me.  I tried the whole external drive thing, but was never disciplined enough to do regular backups...I always told myself "I'll do it tomorrow" or some other such excuse.  Having the data (and pictures) off site incase the unthinkable happens is also reassuring.


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## Ray C (Jan 12, 2014)

Kenny...

QuickBooks Desktop Pro 2014 at a whopping cost of $199.00.  http://quickbooks.intuit.com/pro/   This link has a free trial button at the top and the software also has a 60 day money back guarantee.  Don't like it?  Get your money back.  -Fair enough... I bought it.  

Absolutely...  Off-site backups are the way to go.  I have GoDaddy Domain service as well as 100GB of offline storage ($150 for 5 year plan i.e. about $30/year).  The backup software works very well but is only for backing up user data.  It cannot create a full OS recovery image.  It takes 20-40 minutes every night roughly.  Been using it for a couple years now.  About every 6 months, I do a backup to an external drive and throw it in the gun safe.  -Paranoia?  In a healthy way...

I'll be able to use QBs for sure.  There's only a few things I need to get used to and it's all personal nits and preferences.  In all cases, I've been able to find the answers in the tutorials, online help or, the complete 800 page PDF book.

Right now, I'm in the process of refreshing my knowledge of LLC finance, taxes and permits.  I've had a PLC for years but that's a similar yet, whole different beast -especially in the way of capital equipment, inventory and a hugely expanded concept of lists of accounts  I've managed budgets for years -but at a different level where I had no concerns of accounts payable/receivable...  A couple years ago, I started the LLC fire-drill but, got sidetracked.  Things are different this time around.

Ray





Kennyd said:


> Subscribed with great interest Ray,
> 
> I too am thinking about QB as my small LLC continues to grow, last year (12) I just had a basic list on a ledger, but now I am trying to get 13 done and seriously considering QB.  What version did you get?
> 
> ...


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## Walt (Jan 12, 2014)

Kennyd said:


> Subscribed with great interest Ray,
> 
> On the whole "neat" scanner thing that's advertised on TV, maybe I just don't get it, but it's not like your going to actually throw away originals of important documents, I don't see the piles going away...while it might be nice for business cards or non critical paperwork, I just don't see the point.
> 
> As we get more digital, please remember a backup!  I use Carbonite myself, the piece of mind it provides is worth every penny to me.  I tried the whole external drive thing, but was never disciplined enough to do regular backups...I always told myself "I'll do it tomorrow" or some other such excuse.  Having the data (and pictures) off site incase the unthinkable happens is also reassuring.



I agree with your critique of the Neat Scanner. It solves the end of the problem that wasn't the main issue to begin with.

With regards to backup, the best system is the one you will actually use! Having said that, after several system rebuilds from the Windows install disks, I use Acronis with an external hard drive. Every Sunday morning, I just got done as a matter of fact. Then quarterly I burn an image to a BluRay disk. Looking after my computer and my wife's takes about 1 to 1.5 hours weekly. I've retrieved two lost files for her and saved everything from a burned out cpu + motherboard. That one resulted in about 3 days of lost email, but it could have been much, much worse.

Walt


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## Kennyd (Jan 12, 2014)

Ray, did you look at Quicken by chance?  I am just not sure I need all the fancy stuff that QB has integrated into it for a simple home based LLC:at Amazon Quicken Home & Business or the Inuit site: Quicken Home and Business


At almost 1/4 of the cost, I gotta wonder...


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## Ray C (Jan 12, 2014)

Kenny,

I did look at the Quicken web page but, it didn't mention the ability to generate detailed Estimates, Invoices or Sales receipts.  Those are important considerations for me and one of my customers needs me to get up to speed to support this.  He's not being a pain... I see/understand his need is legitimate.  Admittedly, I didn't download the Quicken product for trial but, the version of Quicken for home/business use is $115 vs $200 for QB pro.   Within QB Pro, I immediately saw the features I knew were needed so I gravitated to that product.  BTW:  I was half tempted to get QB Premier for $320 -which has business-specific features to support (for example) a "Manufacturing and Wholesale/Retail" model which supports RMAs etc...  If my desires pan-out, I'll need that in about a year or so.

Ray




Kennyd said:


> Ray, did you look at Quicken by chance?  I am just not sure I need all the fancy stuff that QB has integrated into it for a simple home based LLC:at Amazon Quicken Home & Business or the Inuit site: Quicken Home and Business
> 
> 
> At almost 1/4 of the cost, I gotta wonder...


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## Ray C (Jan 12, 2014)

There are so many different scanners out there, it's not even funny.  The "Neet / Neat ?" model is over-priced and seems (to me anyhow) to be a market-hyped product.  Scanners are dime a dozen. 

I have a very old Samsung laser printer...  This thing has got to be 10-12 years old and it won't quit!  Anyhow, I just came home with a new Dell laser printer that has a built-in scanner/copier and Fax.  -Probably won't use the Fax but... this thing was $119 on sale at Staples.  Toner refills were $39  for generic brands (very reasonable).  In the last year, both my mother in law and brother in law passed away and I was their executor of Will.  The number of times I needed to copy something in the past year is off the charts -and now that I'm not working out of a remote office anymore, it was time to get a scanner/copier of my own.

This printer/copier has built-in wireless -which is nice.  I used a store computer to read some reviews about the printer and it seems OK.   I'll let you know how this model works out.  It was model DELL B1265DFW for $119.


Ray





Walt said:


> I agree with your critique of the Neat Scanner. It solves the end of the problem that wasn't the main issue to begin with.
> 
> With regards to backup, the best system is the one you will actually use! Having said that, after several system rebuilds from the Windows install disks, I use Acronis with an external hard drive. Every Sunday morning, I just got done as a matter of fact. Then quarterly I burn an image to a BluRay disk. Looking after my computer and my wife's takes about 1 to 1.5 hours weekly. I've retrieved two lost files for her and saved everything from a burned out cpu + motherboard. That one resulted in about 3 days of lost email, but it could have been much, much worse.
> 
> Walt


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## Ray C (Jan 12, 2014)

As a follow-up, that cheap Dell laser printer, copier, scanner works just fine.  The printer driver installation had a couple glitches and did not proceed as outlined in the instructions but, after a few minutes of fiddling, it all fell into place.  In addition to the printer driver, it came with some glorified print management and do-all-to-end-all editing software...  That software seems ridiculously complex and I'll probably uninstall it.  Fortunately, the basic drivers control all the printing, scanning, copying features just fine w/o the need for that fancy software.


Ray


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## Tony Wells (Jan 12, 2014)

One of the basic building blocks for a system, at least, for the ones I have used, is assigning a number to every job that comes in. It can start as a quote, be converted to a job (or work order) number, and even branch out into a PO system, with prefixes or suffixes to link it back to the original file, where it all starts.....as a quote. Of course, it doesn't have to start as a quote, it can come in as a regular job. As long as you maintain a strict numerical order, with no gaps, you have the basis for a powerful tool for tracking the workflow. When you buy materials for that job....issue a PO based on the WO number. XXXX-1M for the first piece of material, and -2M for the next, and so on. For outside services, such as HT, shot peen, anodize or plating, deep hole drilling, honing......anything that is a service you don't do in shop, suffix it with a S (XXXX-1S, and so on). All of these documents are kept in a master folder, per job according to the min 4 digit job number. At the end of the job, you can do an analysis and make a paper copy with any notes you may want to review if/when the job comes in again. This may include material source and price, and special tooling that you may need to order, or even perhaps the length of time the job took, so you can give a good estimate on delivery. 

I used to do the scheduling for about 100 guys, and about 300-500 different jobs a month. Some had 6 week lead time, but orders often came in soon enough to be run with the last order, so we made better money because of more volume buying material, more time to tweak the programming and processing, discounts on any outside processes, and of course, the setup time is amortized over more parts. And at times, when the orders were different size, and smaller orders carry higher prices.......but our cost was actually lower.

One day I should write a program that is really basic enough for a one man shop and would not cost a lot. No need to drag a lot of HR capacity in, for instance.


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## joconnor (Jan 12, 2014)

HI
I have been using Simply Accounting for 13 years. It takes a while to learn, but it works very well. My biggest time savers are inventory and receivables control. I have a one man welding equipment repair shop. I'm not sure if you have Simply in the USA, but if you do it would be worth a look.


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## Kennyd (Jan 12, 2014)

joconnor said:


> HI
> I have been using Simply Accounting for 13 years. It takes a while to learn, but it works very well. My biggest time savers are inventory and receivables control. I have a one man welding equipment repair shop. I'm not sure if you have Simply in the USA, but if you do it would be worth a look.




Here is the website, it appears they have changed the name: http://na.sage.com/sage-50-accounting-ca


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## Ray C (Jan 12, 2014)

Ahhh, Peachtree.  Many years ago, I looked at this software right when it was taking a foothold in the marketplace.  It's Sage now...  I'm sure it's a very good product.  I'll check into it...


Ray





Kennyd said:


> Here is the website, it appears they have changed the name: http://na.sage.com/sage-50-accounting-ca


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## Tony Wells (Jan 12, 2014)

I used Peachtree for a couple of years, or rather my wife did for our books.....didn't care for it at the time. Seemed you needed to be an accountant to use it. Things probably have changed, so worth a look. It was nicely done software.


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## Ray C (Feb 7, 2014)

Quick update on this...

So far, I'm sticking with quick books.  It wasn't hard to pick up, it runs well and seems to have all the features needed for a small company.  Updating the forms with my letterhead was very easy.  Now for the best part...  I spent a lot of time brushing up on basic business finances and setup the list of accounts etc...  I started interviewing local CPAs to double-check if things were setup in a reasonable way.  Every single accountant in the area will work with QuickBooks -and most of them prefer it for LLC and small S-corp entities. 

Just something to think about if you setup your own business...  Make sure your accountant will work with your tax software.


Ray


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