# your opinion on Palmgren 3" milling vise.



## Ken from ontario (Feb 15, 2017)

I just returned a Grizzly 3" toolmaker's vise  this morning,it was missing  the V block accessory and it didn't seem to have powerful clamping power for medium machining.
 I realized what I need is a Kurt style vise for my mini mill,a 3" vise seems to be the right size for the small  table . 2" is too small and 4" I think will be too big.
I searched the net for a while and most of the Kurt style vises in my price range ($150 to $200) are made in China and seem to have been manufactured in the same factory, I finally found  a 3" vise made by Palmgren  that seem to fit the bill :
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0006N8CZQ...UTF8&colid=U1FASJ1VAXTT&coliid=I1GCR3QOLBDZ30



I was wondering if any of you have had one like it and /or if you've heard of this make, what is your overall opinion of such a vise , I would appreciate your comments very much.


----------



## Bob Korves (Feb 15, 2017)

Ken from ontario said:


> I just returned a Grizzly 3" toolmaker's vise this morning,it was missing the V block accessory and it didn't seem to have powerful clamping power for medium machining.
> I realized what I need is a Kurt style vise for my mini mill,a 3" vise seems to be the right size for the small table . 2" is too small and 4" I think will be too big.
> I searched the net for a while and most of the Kurt style vises in my price range ($150 to $200) are made in China and seem to have been manufactured in the same factory, I finally found a 3" vise made by Palmgren that seem to fit the bill :


Palmgren is/was an old school American company.  They made lots of different vises, clamps, and other workholding tooling.  They are still in business, but much of their product now comes from China.  I think but am not sure that some of their products may still be American made, but if it does not say so in the catalogue, you can pretty much put money on it being an import.  The import tools they sell now are mere shadows of their good old tools, in my opinion...

Edit:  Beyond that, the vise you have pictured is more of a drill press vise than a milling machine vise.  I would get one that is a straight up vise for a mill, and without the swivel base, which will steal your headroom on the small mill and will take away much of whatever rigidity you might have now.


----------



## Ken from ontario (Feb 15, 2017)

Thank s for your comment Bob, I doubted their claim of it being a milling vise when I first saw it ,I'm glad you confirmed it, I already have a decent drill press vise,that's what I've been using on my mill.
The swivel base will come off of any vise I buy anyway,for the same reason you mentioned but the problem is , most of what's available on ebay or Amazon, come with the base.


----------



## Bob Korves (Feb 15, 2017)

Ken, I bought one of these vices for my surface grinder from these people:
https://www.hardwarefactorystore.co...ewless-mini-insert-vise-toolmaker-steel-0002/
I see they are out of stock now in that size, and I am not surprised.  It is a VERY nice vise for that kind of money, shipping included.  When it arrived it was beautifully ground and absolutely flawless, and met the stated accuracy.  Other vendors sell the same vise, and you may be able to find a good deal on one.  This vise is a real toolmakers's vise.

Save the money that goes into a swivel base for a better vise.  The swivel base is mostly in the way, compromising accuracy, and decreasing rigidity.  When you need to, you can bolt a plain vise down on an angle...


----------



## Ken from ontario (Feb 15, 2017)

Bob, I have never owned one like that but have heard that they are PITA to set up for different size stock, and can not be tightened as well as a Kurt style vise, most people who own a toolmaker's vise seem to also own a Kurt style  as their main vise ,I would probably use either but am leaning toward the Kurt clones since it will be my only so called milling vise.


----------



## Bob Korves (Feb 15, 2017)

Some of the Kurt clones are not very well made.  Watch out...


----------



## woodtickgreg (Feb 15, 2017)

Might check with Shars. They have several vises, they are imports but some are very good quality. They make a nice 4" kurt clone that is better than most of the imports, about $250 with out the swivel. 3 inchers are the cheap Chinese variety.


----------



## mikey (Feb 15, 2017)

Kurt made the D30, a 3" angle lok vise but they are no longer made. They do come up on ebay from time to time but there are none currently - keep an eye out, though. 

Wilton used to make a very nice and accurate Super-Precision 3" vise but those also are no longer made. The 2" versions may still be available as NOS: https://www.southern-tool.com/store/wilton-super-precision-milling-vises.php#tabSpecs

There are clones of the Wilton vises on ebay, from India. They look the same but not sure of the quality.

Otherwise, as far as I know, you're stuck with Chinese stuff.
https://www.southern-tool.com/store/wilton-super-precision-milling-vises.php#tabSpecs


----------



## Ken from ontario (Feb 15, 2017)

I found the 3" Shars on ebay but it looks just like what I can get here for $100, I'm very sceptical of the quality.


----------



## woodtickgreg (Feb 15, 2017)

I don't really know of anyone making a good 3" mill vise anymore. But if you can go to a 4" things get better as far as quality.


----------



## Ken from ontario (Feb 15, 2017)

Mikey, isn't it strange that they(southern tools) sell 2" and the next size up is 4", I've noticed that with other brands, not many customers for 3" I guess.


----------



## Ken from ontario (Feb 15, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> I don't really know of anyone making a good 3" mill vise anymore. But if you can go to a 4" things get better as far as quality.


That's it ,lots of good quality 4" and 6" but the smaller the vise, the cheaper it gets with quality, just my luck,lol.


----------



## Ken from ontario (Feb 15, 2017)

The only reason I don't go for 4" is I'm worried it'll interfere with the mill's Y handle or it'll be too long and couldn't be centered on the mill table .


----------



## mikey (Feb 15, 2017)

Do with a screwless vise until you find a Kurt D30, Ken. Wait, they will show up.


----------



## Ken from ontario (Feb 15, 2017)

I might, I'm not really desperate for a milling vise ,I can use my drill press vise as I always .
I found a few decent 3" vises on ebay but can't base my judgement on the pictures alone.
For now I'll keep looking, thank you all for your comments, I'll let you know what I'll end up with.


----------



## ch2co (Feb 15, 2017)

I've been using a screwless vise for most of my (aluminum) milling for the last year or so, and although its Chinese I've had very good luck with it. It's about 10-12 years old
so don't know if the newer ones are really the same.  I've used a 4" palmgren that I've had for years every now and then, but it does interfere with the y-axis handle so it needs careful planning with the setup.  I like mikey's idea. 

CHuck the grumpy old guy


----------



## woodchucker (Feb 15, 2017)

Ken from ontario said:


> I found the 3" Shars on ebay but it looks just like what I can get here for $100, I'm very sceptical of the quality.


http://www.shars.com/products/toolh...2-95-lock-down-precision-milling-machine-vise     $65 US   should be about $78 CAD


----------



## Bob Korves (Feb 15, 2017)

Ken from ontario said:


> I might, I'm not really desperate for a milling vise ,I can use my drill press vise as I always .
> I found a few decent 3" vises on ebay but can't base my judgement on the pictures alone.
> For now I'll keep looking, thank you all for your comments, I'll let you know what I'll end up with.


Look here, if you haven't already:
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=1963256912


----------



## Ken from ontario (Feb 15, 2017)

Thank yo all for the links and all your comment, I am truly grateful.
Bob, I did look at LMS vises, the one I really like is


I found  a Canadian seller on ebay selling it ,with tax and shipping it'll come to $280 Canadian $, which is the same is LMS.


----------



## tertiaryjim (Feb 15, 2017)

I bought that vice you show with the swivel base.
It's fairly well made but not accurate or rigid enough for milling.
I had to do some light machining and scrape it in, the vice and base,  before it worked well.
Still not as good as a milling vice.


----------



## Ken from ontario (Feb 16, 2017)

Tertiaryjim, thanks for the comment, I'm not exactly sure which vise you're referring to, if it's the very last one in post #19, I thought that vise was a milling vise.


----------



## tertiaryjim (Feb 16, 2017)

The vise you first pictured, Palmgren.


----------



## Charles Spencer (Feb 16, 2017)

I have the HF version of the same mill and also a horizontal mill.  I got the 4" vise from Shars with swivel vise like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-4-x-4...ase-CNC-New-/330717190280?hash=item4d0047d888

http://www.shars.com/4-x-3-93-lock-down-precision-milling-machine-vise-with-swivel-base

The swivel  only costs $5.00 more and I have found it useful for setting compound angles.

In addition I got a 3" toolmaker vise:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-3-BES...796774?hash=item4cfa2d71e6:g:TFIAAOSwiCRUherg

The 4" vise is a little large for my mini mil sometimes (not too often) so then I use the smaller vise.


----------



## mws (Feb 20, 2017)

Whatever size and style vise you choose I believe it is imperative to choose a vice where the moving jaw is pulled down into the vice bed when clamping. IE: screwless, toolmakers, Kurt,...  The rocking/tipping of the screw type vise jaw is intolerable for mill work. IMHO.


----------



## Bob Korves (Feb 20, 2017)

mws said:


> Whatever size and style vise you choose I believe it is imperative to choose a vice where the moving jaw is pulled down into the vice bed when clamping. IE: screwless, toolmakers, Kurt,...  The rocking/tipping of the screw type vise jaw is intolerable for mill work. IMHO.


The Bridgeport vise that I rehabbed has box ways and does not have a jaw pull down action.  The bed and ways have been fitted by me to a snug sliding fit.  The movable jaw on my vise does not pull up more than a same sized (6") Kurt vise does (mine has .0005" lift when cranked down HARD), and a Kurt vise movable jaw does pull up, regardless of the "angle lock"...  The bed on my BP vise is full width and does not have a slot in the bottom for losing stuff, filling up with chips, or for making setups more difficult, and the bed is quite a bit lower to the table than a Kurt vise bed is.  It was also free...

Don't get me wrong.  Kurt vises are very good vises, just not the only good possibility.  Kurt clones can be anywhere from very good to absolute junk...


----------



## Ken from ontario (Feb 20, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> *The bed on my BP vise is full width and does not have a slot in the bottom for losing stuff, filling up with chips, or for making setups more difficult*, and the bed is quite a bit lower to the table than a Kurt vise bed is.  It was also free...
> 
> k...


The lack of slot in the bottom is what I like and found a clone of Wilton that doesn't have that "feature".
BTW, you couldn't get that vise of yours any cheaper.lol. 
Great post.


----------



## Ken from ontario (Feb 21, 2017)

Finally bought a vise in my price range ,it is exactly like the one on eBay that's selling for$179.99 plus shipping but I paid $150  from a local vendor, it comes with the usual Cosmoline oil all over it that needs to be cleaned up but checked the base and with a little scraping it should be flat, the jaws are perfectly on the same plane and touch evenly /parallel ,if you have any advice on tuning and setting it up please let me know,the pic here are from the one on ebay which is identical to the vise I got:


----------



## Bob Korves (Feb 21, 2017)

My advice is to take the swivel base off it and put it away until such time that you actually need it, if that is possible.


----------



## Ken from ontario (Feb 21, 2017)

Bob.thanks for your comment,it's very much appreciated as always.
I am planing to remove the base, there's not much room in the Z axis to begin with. I meant to flatten the base of the vise itself if necessary, I haven't even checked the bottom yet.


----------



## Bob Korves (Feb 21, 2017)

Ken from ontario said:


> Bob.thanks for your comment,it's very much appreciated as always.
> I am planing to remove the base, there's not much room in the Z axis to begin with. I meant to flatten the base of the vise itself if necessary, I haven't even checked the bottom yet.


Scraping the bottom in is a good idea.  You might also be able to make the bed and the tops of the jaws more parallel with the table at the same time.


----------



## pstemari (Mar 2, 2017)

Check the various cap screws and replace them if need be. I've got a 2" Interstate/MHC vise from Enco (now MSC), and while it's a nicely made tool, the draw screw it came with was made out of chicheesium. After I replaced that with a decent one, all was very well 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## hman (Mar 3, 2017)

pstemari said:


> ... the draw screw it came with was made out of chicheesium.


Love it!


----------

