# Enco transformer help



## sundown57 (Dec 31, 2021)

MY Enco 110-1351 won't start. I checked as much wiring as possible and firmly believe the transformer is not working ( it won't pull in the #1 relay) Problem is I cant find a part number for it or any parts list for this machine. I did find one on Grizzly (P4003051) but no picture and that part number is no longer available its says superseded to (Grizzly P4002051 - TRANSFORMER JBK5 100VA 110/400V-24/110V) that one looks nothing like mine and the numbers on it are all different. even if i buy it i have no idea how to install it, Anyone know if there is a place to get the right one? Below is a picture of the one im looking for. thanks


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## brino (Dec 31, 2021)

@sundown57

I do not have that machine or a definitive answer on part number/replacement.........but.......

If you can provide some more info then the guys here will always try to help -and we have some electrical wizards here!

Any chance of a gear cover, belt guard or chuck shield lock-out switch causing this?
Can you point us to a Enco 110-1351 wiring diagram?
Have you (carefully!) measured the input and output voltages of the transformer?
Any idea the input and output voltages required?
Perhaps we can find a suitable replacement based on function.

Brian


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## sundown57 (Dec 31, 2021)

i found this schematic online and it seems to match up to what i see in the box. I do have 3 relays same as shown in the schematic. But no i have no idea what voltage any of it is. I cant seem to find a manual on this machine.


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## brino (Dec 31, 2021)

sundown57 said:


> i have no idea what voltage any of it is. I cant seem to find a manual on this machine.



What socket do you plug it into? (120V or 240V)
Is there a plate on the motor?

We will get there!

Brian


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## sundown57 (Dec 31, 2021)

its wired for 220 single phase.  If i push and hold the button in on relay 1, i can start the machine but then i hit the start button on the front it wont pull the relay in by itself..


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## Mitch Alsup (Dec 31, 2021)

The transformer at the top-middle of the figure shows this is 220V input and a variety of lower voltages output.

I, personally, would have been surprised if the 2HP motor was anything other than 220V.

But before condemning the transformer, you should walk a VTVM probe around to see who has voltage and who does not.


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## sundown57 (Dec 31, 2021)

yeah, that's what i was thinking, maybe i can map it out before i remove it.


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## markba633csi (Dec 31, 2021)

Transformers rarely fail, you should measure the output before writing it off, especially since it's difficult to source a replacement that
will fit in the box (mounting a larger unit outside the box is an option, however)
I would suspect you are having a switch or contactor problem instead, since those involve moving parts
-Mark


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## Z2V (Dec 31, 2021)

I’ll ask the obvious because I see a fuse in the bottom of the cabinet. Are both fuses good? Do you have a meter? In the picture if you put your meter leads across the two red wires on top of the transformer you should read 220 volts AC. On the bottom of the transformer reading across the first two wires on the left side you you should read 6 volts AC. Moving over to the next three wires on the bottom it looks like the first wire is white. Put one meter lead on it and read to each of the next two wires and you should get around 29 volts the way it looks


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## sundown57 (Dec 31, 2021)

I gave up on it for the night but I will test that tomorrow and post it here. Thanks all for the help


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## markba633csi (Dec 31, 2021)

I would assume the transformer is getting power and just measure the output for now, for safety's sake
-M


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## pdentrem (Dec 31, 2021)

I would check the pull in coil on that contactor. 
Should have 24volts supplied. If you don’t 24 volts check the fuses. If the coil is bad, infinity reading between terminals with #6 wire based upon the diagram disconnected so that you are only testing the coil and not the whole system, then replace the coil or the whole unit.


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## sundown57 (Jan 1, 2022)

Z2V said:


> I’ll ask the obvious because I see a fuse in the bottom of the cabinet. Are both fuses good? Do you have a meter? In the picture if you put your meter leads across the two red wires on top of the transformer you should read 220 volts AC. On the bottom of the transformer reading across the first two wires on the left side you you should read 6 volts AC. Moving over to the next three wires on the bottom it looks like the first wire is white. Put one meter lead on it and read to each of the next two wires and you should get around 29 volts they way it looks


i made a mistake in the first post. that picture of the electrical box is one I got off the net that looked close to mine. When i went out this morning to follow your instructions i see now my transformer is different. going from left to right i have nothing on the first 3. I tried testing them across each other and to ground individually. I do have 29 on last 2. The Schematic is also one I got off the net, It says its for my machine but now im not so sure. Just FYI. I know very little about wiring so detailed info is a big help. thanks


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## Z2V (Jan 1, 2022)

This pic is your actual transformer and you have 29 volts on the last two bottom terminals your transformer is OK. The first wire from left is yellow/green and looks to be labeled PE is ground. Do you get a reading between the third and fourth wire? I would look for maybe 6 volts that would be the power for the lights. The 29 volts on the last two terminals is for the relay coils.
Like Mark mentioned, it’s likely a safety switch gone bad. It could possibly be a relay coil bad but that is about as unlikely as a bad transformer.
Disconnect the power and go to each of the switches and remove one wire from the switch and then check for continuity across the switch terminals. You want the switch out of the circuit to test it that’s why I mention removing one wire. 
‘Did you check the fuses? Check them for continuity with your meter.


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## sundown57 (Jan 1, 2022)

Z2V said:


> This pic is your actual transformer and you have 29 volts on the last two bottom terminals your transformer is OK. The first wire from left is yellow/green and looks to be labeled PE is ground. Do you get a reading between the third and fourth wire? I would look for maybe 6 volts that would be the power for the lights. The 29 volts on the last two terminals is for the relay coils.
> Like Mark mentioned, it’s likely a safety switch gone bad. It could possibly be a relay coil bad but that is about as unlikely as a bad transformer.
> Disconnect the power and go to each of the switches and remove one wire from the switch and then check for continuity across the switch terminals. You want the switch out of the circuit to test it that’s why I mention removing one wire.
> ‘Did you check the fuses? Check them for continuity with your meter.


I did check the fuses with a meter and they are both good, I do get a reading of 29 between the 3rd and 4th WIRE, I do not get a reading between 3rd and 4th terminal. ( #2 is not used). I tested both the E stop and the green start/power buttons with a wire off and they both seem ok. I get continuity when pushed on green or pulled on E stop.   Would it be ok to take one wire off the switch and connect it to the other wire to make the switches constant on for right now? that way when i power it on I should get juice to #6. and that should make it easier to test for power. Is that correct ?


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## Z2V (Jan 1, 2022)

You mention #6, looking at the diagram you posted that’s the coil for KM1 relay? If that’s the case leave everything wired as is and measure for voltage from #6 and the white wire on the bottom of the transformer while you have it turned on to run. If you have no voltage move to #5, 4, 3 while leaving the other lead on the white wire on the transformer.
Also, I see an “FR” contact in line with KM1 and also in line with the motor leads. This could be an overload that might have a reset button


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## mksj (Jan 1, 2022)

KM1 is the power latching relay, KM2 and KM3 are the motor run relays. KM1 should latch on power up with the spindle switch in the stop position or there is a start button, if not most likely it is a faulty contactor coil. Almost never see a transformer fail, in particular where the taps are fused. The indicator lights are 6V, if KM1 is closing it should latch. So I would check the function of that first. If there is a belt cover switch or guard switch  which it looks like after the E-Stop switch then most likely that is faulty. 

The pictures and schematic are too poor resolution to really see the details. When measuring the transformer voltages, you measure from the 0V tap to the voltage tap (6V, 29V). The red wires are the transformer voltages, basically you start out measuring voltage from the 0V to the 29V starting at the transformer terminal and at each step forward, wires numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6. You would also measure voltages a A1 and A2 on the K1 power contactor to see if it is getting power to the coil. If there is power to the coil and it is not closing then the coil has failed (you can also disconnect A1 and A2 and measure the coil with an ohm meter and see if it is open). Be mindful that the black wires are hot with 230VAC so a short when probing voltages could be very serious. I would suggest if you do not know how to check the voltages that you find someone who is more familiar with electrical equipment. If one needs a contactor replacement, one would need the specific model number and possible checking the top contact block as to NO/NC configuration. There are Baomain AC contactors that seem to be the same style, but you world need to match up the same specifications and configuration. Most likely I would think their is an interlock switch that is either become misaligned or failed, you can put a jumper across the switch or check it with an ohm meter with the wires disconnected.
Just an example. https://www.amazon.com/Baomain-Contactor-CJX1-22-3-Phase-3-Pole/dp/B01J9MW0H0


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## markba633csi (Jan 1, 2022)

Often, the mechanical reversing switch is what fails on these systems.  I believe it can prevent the main contactor from latching if faulty. It's the switch or switches mounted near the left hand side of the control shaft, operated by a lever on the carriage.  They get a lot of use and are reported to be a common failure point, on lathes with a lot of mileage
They are either a pair of microswitches or a single rotary type switch
If you remove the switches for testing, be sure to label the wires clearly
-M


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## sundown57 (Jan 1, 2022)

mksj said:


> KM1 is the power latching relay, KM2 and KM3 are the motor run relays. KM1 should latch on power up with the spindle switch in the stop position or there is a start button, if not most likely it is a faulty contactor coil. Almost never see a transformer fail, in particular where the taps are fused. The indicator lights are 6V, if KM1 is closing it should latch. So I would check the function of that first. If there is a belt cover switch or guard switch  which it looks like after the E-Stop switch then most likely that is faulty.
> 
> The pictures and schematic are too poor resolution to really see the details. When measuring the transformer voltages, you measure from the 0V tap to the voltage tap (6V, 29V). The red wires are the transformer voltages, basically you start out measuring voltage from the 0V to the 29V starting at the transformer terminal and at each step forward, wires numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6. You would also measure voltages a A1 and A2 on the K1 power contactor to see if it is getting power to the coil. If there is power to the coil and it is not closing then the coil has failed (you can also disconnect A1 and A2 and measure the coil with an ohm meter and see if it is open). Be mindful that the black wires are hot with 230VAC so a short when probing voltages could be very serious. I would suggest if you do not know how to check the voltages that you find someone who is more familiar with electrical equipment. If one needs a contactor replacement, one would need the specific model number and possible checking the top contact block as to NO/NC configuration. There are Baomain AC contactors that seem to be the same style, but you world need to match up the same specifications and configuration. Most likely I would think their is an interlock switch that is either become misaligned or failed, you can put a jumper across the switch or check it with an ohm meter with the wires disconnected.
> Just an example. https://www.amazon.com/Baomain-Contactor-CJX1-22-3-Phase-3-Pole/dp/B01J9MW0H0


after doing a bunch of testing and help from a friend who can read the schematic I figured out that I do have power going to coil in the KM1 relay but it is not pulling in. So just ordered 3 . Will update when i get them installed. Thanks so much for all the input.


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## Pontiac Freak (Jan 9, 2022)

Hi guys, going to jump in on this thread as I have a similar problem with a similar lathe.  I have the Harbor Freight 12x36 version of this lathe, almost identical.  It also quit on me during the Christmas holidays.  
Lathe powered on fine for first use in the morning but when I got my metal chucked up and went to use it there were no power lights on the front.  I checked and do have 220v all the way to the machine.  I found the light in the power switch had died so i put in a new one.  Now when you put power to the machine the power light comes on for a second then you hear a click and the lights go off.  The click is the KM1 Contactor closing (the button is pulled in).  The lathe will work in forward and reverse as normal at this point but no power lights.  If you disconnect power it will not pull in the KM1 contactor though.  It blows a fuse (from the left side of the box it is the 2nd fuse)  
The Transformer voltage is all over the place, supposed to be 29v but am reading 45-38v, could this be the culprit?


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## sundown57 (Jan 9, 2022)

the transformer has 3 voltages. 6, 24, and 36. I believe. i do know that when you press the power button the KM1 relay should pull in and stay in. then if you move the lever to forward the KM2 relay will pull in and reverse KM3. if 1 is in put it in forward and press the #2 relay. that should start the motor. if your blowing fuses then you have a short, not a bad transformer. i would think


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## Pontiac Freak (Jan 9, 2022)

sundown57 said:


> the transformer has 3 voltages. 6, 24, and 36. I believe. i do know that when you press the power button the KM1 relay should pull in and stay in. then if you move the lever to forward the KM2 relay will pull in and reverse KM3. if 1 is in put it in forward and press the #2 relay. that should start the motor. if your blowing fuses then you have a short, not a bad transformer. i would think


I think the voltages are supposed to be 6, 24 & 29. I am not able to locate a 29v transformer, only a 24v one.  With the 40+v reading on the 29v leg would that create a problem?
Should the button pull in on its own and stay in on KM1?  I thought the button was for manual operation only.


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## pdentrem (Jan 9, 2022)

The coils should be clearly marked with the required voltage. Never seen a 29 V version though.
Pierre


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## sundown57 (Jan 9, 2022)

Pontiac Freak said:


> I think the voltages are supposed to be 6, 24 & 29. I am not able to locate a 29v transformer, only a 24v one.  With the 40+v reading on the 29v leg would that create a problem?
> Should the button pull in on its own and stay in on KM1?  I thought the button was for manual operation only.


yes when you press the green power button on the front. Estop out. It should pull the KM1 relay in and it should stay in untill you cut power. when km1 is in lift the handle to forward and km2 will pull in, reverse is km3. but km1 should never pop out. 

If km1 is not pulling in. put the lever in forward and press the km1 button. that should pull in km2 and start the lathe. 

NEVER PRESS KM2 AND 3 AT THE SAME TIME.


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## Pontiac Freak (Jan 10, 2022)

sundown57 said:


> yes when you press the green power button on the front. Estop out. It should pull the KM1 relay in and it should stay in untill you cut power. when km1 is in lift the handle to forward and km2 will pull in, reverse is km3. but km1 should never pop out.
> 
> If km1 is not pulling in. put the lever in forward and press the km1 button. that should pull in km2 and start the lathe.
> 
> NEVER PRESS KM2 AND 3 AT THE SAME TIME.


Great, thanks!  At least I know that is working properly.  Now to find out the reason why the fuse is popping.


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