# Haimer 3d Sensor - New Generation 80.360.00.ng Edge Finder



## mksj (Jun 22, 2015)

Well after many years and at least 6 different mechanical and electrical edge finders, I finally broke down and purchased a Haimer edge finder.  I have not found the traditional mechanical ones to be very accurate, purchased a few US made LED types that was decent but the tip started to wobble with time, then more recently a SPI ball tip LED which when new was out over 0.007" (junk).  I had seen the dial indicator type, but both the initial expense and in some cases repair was prohibitive.  The Haimer probably falls into the latter, but when I add up all the $$ spent on useless edge finders in my tool drawer, I am probably pretty close to the cost of the Haimer. The desirable feature of the Haimer, is it has a break away tip should you exceed the movement range of 3mm and very importantly it is user replaceable (other vendors you need to ship it back to Germany to be fitted and recalibrate $$$).  According to one vendor that cells this model, 99% of the incidents with these is a tip crash and they break.  I purchase my Haimer through Tormach for warranty purposes and also for technical support, which I had to use for the setup and was very pleased with their direction. http://www.tormach.com/store/index....ow&ref=33029&gclid=CJjNnaXHpMYCFcdcfgodKZIAbQ

I went with there newer Metric model (Haimer 3D Sensor - New Generation 80.360.00.NG) for several reasons. As an edge finder, you are only concerned about the 0 point, the gradations are easier and finer on the metric version, the shaft is 12mm (which fits my 1/2" chucks, although I have purchased a 12mm R8 and ER32 collet), and this model has a large dial face with a compact body (relative to their other two mechanical models). I find it very easy to "0" the needle to the unit resolution which is 0.0004". The ball is 4mm, smaller than the US version of 0.200", so allows centering of smaller holes. The Haimer works by advancing the ball against a surface until the dial and movement indicators swings from it's static position of 2.0000mm to o.0000 (i.e. the diameter of the tip). At this point you are at dead "0", no need to subtract or 1/2 the diameter of the tip. This is also done without the machine turning, i.e. static movement. The Haimer works for non-conductive materials, which is a big plus in my book, as the LED don't work on things like plastic.

So out of the box you can zero the indicator in the X and Y axis at the tip/indicator, they recommend using a dial indicator, but I found it easier to use one face of my vice to find "0" then back off the indicator rotate 180 degrees re-advance to the same point with the DRO and reheck the "0". I did this in the X direction and then the Y direction until I was within 0.0002" in any axis, but requires a DRO or  a mechanical indicator with a 0.0001" resolution.  I then put a precision ground rod/block 1.0000" in my vice and torqued it down and took a reading with the Haimer zeroing the dial at one face and then the other. With repeat checks it measured to 1.0000 +/- 2/10,000 on repeat measurements. I did have few caveats, first my precision Jacobs chuck with an R8 spindle stunk, and was out  quite a bit. I switched to a Glacern keyless chuck which holds very good tolerance, but I hate using keyless chucks, but used it to "0" the Haimer. The Haimer did not initially read "0" on the dial in its static state, and as such you will not get the proper length between 2 points when it is zeroed. Call to Tormach, very helpful, the meter must read "0" in its resting position (-2mm) and this is set by 4 small 1.5mm set screws around the face of the dial, you unload one while tightening the opposing screw. THIS WAS NOT IN THE MANUAL. This basically sets the "0" point for the movement, and so this was tweaked to read exactly "0" on the dial (-2.0000mm). Presto, zeroed the DRO on one face of my vise and zeroed the Haimer, advanced to the other face with the "1 inch" block and zeroed the Haimer and we have 1.0000".

The main shortcoming I see of these type of mechanical units (other than the price) is that they do have a certain fragility should you drop it or if it gets knocked around a lot. You need to be a bit more conscious when using it, such as loosening a chuck and having it drop. Replacement stylus/ball on this unit is reasonable, and as mentioned you can "calibrate the needle 0 point" should it change. The movement is supposedly shock resistant, I still would not drop it on the floor. All in all, it is a bit of a middle of the road between very inexpensive albeit inaccurate edge finders, and very expensive electronic edge finder. YMMV.


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## RJSakowski (Jun 22, 2015)

Thanks for the detailed review.  I have watched John from NYC CNC use his and rave about it but it is always great to get a second opinion.


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## rowbare (Jun 23, 2015)

Haimers are wonderful. You will get much good use from it.

For greatest accuracy/repeatability, you should get a dedicated holder for the Haimer. Install the Haimer in that holder and leave it there.  Mark a spot on the spindle and have that facing you whenever you put the Haimer in the spindle. This way the Haimer is always in the same position relative to the spindle. Then do the zero adjust. Once that is done you are good for a while, at least until you remove the Haimer from the dedicated holder or accidentally wipe off the index  mark on the spindle or break a tip or...

bob


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## sgisler (Jun 23, 2015)

I've had one of their inch models a few years and love it. Expensive but IMO worth it. 


Stan,
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kd4gij (Jun 27, 2015)

A drill chuck would be a last choice for that tool.


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## mksj (Jun 28, 2015)

kd4gij said:


> A drill chuck would be a last choice for that tool.


I normally use a Glacern R8-DC625 chuck for drilling which has a measured TIR of under 0.001" with the indicator mounted in my machine, and as mentioned I had ordered 12mm collets for my other holders. Surprisingly enough the cheesy drill chuck that came with the machine has a much better TIR than my NOS BB Jacobs chuck. Since I do all forms of machining, I see no reason why not to use a quality edge indicator whether I am drilling a hole or milling.  The indicator is a pleasure to use and makes very quick work of set-up of edge and hole location/centering with a high degree of repeatability.


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## ronboult (Jun 28, 2015)

Hi mksj
Thanks for the write up on the Haimer. Well presented and very useful for future owners with regard to setup.
I have considered purchasing a Haimer but for the moment other tools take precedence with my purchase of a new lathe. They are very expensive and the digital version even more so.
Do you know if the the full digital versions are more robust than the mechanical machines. The digital versions are fairly recent but the mechanical versions have been around for a lot longer and have demonstrated their robustness. Decisions decisions! Why did you choose the mechanical versus the full digital Haimer?
Your Mill looks very nice. What brand of DRO readout is fitted and what scale resolution did you choose for your mill. My impressions are that one micrometre scale resolution is normally only used on the crosslide of a lathe. Does having such fine resolution on the mill cause jumpiness when setting the mill?
Cheers
Ron


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## mksj (Jun 28, 2015)

Hi Ron,
All very good questions, and ones I gave thought too when purchasing the Haimer. The mechanical version is very robust, the internal unit is shock rated and also IP67 (waterproof). It works very similar to a test indicator, although the movement is much stiffer, the housing is very solid. I prefer analogue over the digital in this setting because you get a better feel for movement to the "0" point and can somewhat split hairs on the indicator between marks. The large digital Haimer is a bit more accurate in an absolute way, smallest unit of measure of 0,001 mm / 0.00005", probably best for CNC set-up or a mill with dedicated holders that can maintain such high levels of accuracy. I still prefer the analogue, you move in to the zero point quickly, if you overshoot you know exactly whee you are, and nothing breaks unless you exceed the 3 mm of travel in any direction. They are a pretty penny, but it saves  a significant amount of set-up time and they are crazy accurate, which I never was able to achieve with other units. It is a very well made unit, and also the support from Tormach when I had some questions. I should have bought it years ago had I known about it. Also appreciate comments from others above on their experiences.

One word of caution when using the Haimer, is that the probe tip uses a ceramic shaft that is made to break should it's travel be exceeded. When using keyless chucks, ER chuck set-up (or R8), it is very easy for the unit to slip out and fall on the mill which can break the tip or possibility knock it out the alignment.  I had this happen with carbide tooling, which can chip if it falls and hits the vise/mill (done that). I always put a wood block or a cloth under my end mills when removing them from the mill. I keep one hand on the Haimer when loosening the chuck and then place it away from flying chips.

The mill uses an Acu-Rite VUE DRO purchased years ago (when they were more affordable). It reads to 0.0002", they are the factory glass  scales, do not recall the grating on them but the accuracy is spot on. The DRO reading is very stable, and I have no issues (or flicker) with the forth decimal place. I presume they have some filtering which stabilizes the reading, and also the rigidity of the scale mounting system that I use. My lathe uses an Easson ES-12 (similar to the ES-8A), the X-scale reads to 0.0001" for what it is worth. Unless I lock down the X axis I do get some shift in the X-axis due to mechanical movement of the cross slide.   I like to machine parts to a finished tolerance of 0.001"  (my choice).

Mark


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## ronboult (Jun 29, 2015)

Mark
I would love a Haimer particularly the digital version but the cost is prohibitive for me. Extremely rare in Australia with no second hand models ever seen. Shipping from USA is also very expensive, best source I could find was direct from Germany. About 1-2 yrs ago I saw what I remember as a press release  ( I think from Haimer USA) advertising the release of new cheaper version of the Digital taster but I can now find no reference to it. Have you come across a budget digital model?

It is interesting that you have a ES12 on your lathe. I actually have the same Easson ES12 on my mill with 5 micron glass scales and I am very happy with it. Unfortunately the ES12 is basically a multifunction machine with Mill /Lathe/Grinder functions. While its major functions match a mill very well most of these functions have no use on the lathe.

I have just purchased a new Sieg Runmaster 330x 1000 lathe and have been looking for a new lathe specific DRO to suit, hence my interest in your Acu-rite.  The Runmaster was supplied with a cheap Chinese DRO which works for very basic operations but is pain to use ( the instruction book is unintelligible). Also when switched to Diam mode ( switching from Rad to Diam is in itself a pain and you are never sure what mode it is in) it loses half its resolution. 

So far the only real lathe specific DROs that I have found are the Electronica EL400 or EL700 sold by Dros Pros and which are also very expensive ( about twice the Easson ES12 when imported to Au). What ever DRO readout I finally get it will definitely have an Electronica S1 Magnetic scale on the Cross slide because of its slimness, contamination resistance and it is available in 1 micron resolution to permit Radius/ Diameter switching without loss of accuracy. Having the slimmer scale on the cross slide will again allow me to use the saddle lock which is hidden by the thick glass scale currently installed. Fortunately Machine DRO in UK sell adapters to allow Electronica magnetic scales to be used on other brand DRO readouts such as Easson, Sino and Sinpo and others.

I read in another thread that you had settled on a PM 1340GT and a Optimum Mill. How do you like these machines? I went looking for a Taiwan made lathe when I bought my Sieg but again any Taiwan made machine imported into Au was outside my budget. Had to settle for the Chinese made Sieg Runmaster. Ironically Runmaster was a Taiwanese company but their lathes are now made in China and sold by Sieg. I don't know what the arrangement is. Perhaps Runmaster was bought out by Sieg. Any way the Runmaster is OK but it has some problems which hopefully can be sorted. As an example the lathe is metric and has a 4mm pitch leadscrew in the tailstock but the vernier on the tail stock is graduated o- 2.45mm. You guess why is as good as mine.
Ron


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## mksj (Jun 29, 2015)

Hi Ron,
I did see the Haimer being sold direct from Germany/UK/Denmark, and would be slightly less than from the US. But I purchased from a US dealer for support and warranty. They did make a less expensive digital model, it is no longer available. One reviewer did not like that model because the digital display was small and difficult to see, and the resolution was much less than the larger 80.460.00.FHN digital model. The resolution of the analogue model exceeds the accuracy of the machines and holders of most hobby machines, the additional resolution (and cost of the digital) would be wasted in my opinion.

Although the ES12 has several modes, in the lathe setting it does everything I need it to do, and works seamlessly on the lathe. Granted many of the functions are not used in the lathe mode, but I prefer the larger digital display and a reasonable cost. The cross slide uses a small 1 micron high resolution glass scale on the right side, I have no issues with it getting contaminated or switching modes, but it does cover the lock screw (so would a magnetic scale on this machine). I machined a cross slide lock on the other side of the carriage on the PM1340GT.  As mentioned, the display is stable on the 4th digit. I like the magnetic, but it would have almost doubled the cost of the DRO set-up. The magnetic scales should be less expensive then glass, they are very simple, with time the prices should drop.

The PM1340GT is a very nice quality lathe at a decent cost, still would have preferred an enclosed gearbox (the open gearbox is messy and noisy). I would put an Igaging absolute scale on your tail stock. Inexpensive, immune to fluids, very accurate, and I do not loose count of where I am depth wise. The Optimum BF-30 is OK, but not up to par with what it's advertised as German engineering. They are currently too expensive in the US for what you get, and replacement parts (like many machines) are a problem. The reason for the DRO on the BF-30 mill is the leads screws are metric with English dials, so useless without the DRO. The manufacture's solution was to eventually send metric dials and not correct the lead screw problem. The machine is loud at speed due to the gearbox, but I have no issues with it's ability to mill, and maybe a bit better overall quality then the generic RF type Chinese mill. Sieg make decent quality machines at a price point.
Mark


Igaging Absolute Tail Stock DRO


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## ronboult (Jun 29, 2015)

Mark
Thanks for the response.
I may have to settle for another ES12 on my lathe if I can't find a lathe specific readout that I like. Every thing in the this field is difficult in Au and I usually have to end up purchasing sight unseen from overseas usually China /Hongkong/Malasia or Singapore. Thanks for the info on the cheaper digital Haimer. Lucky that I did not purchase when it first came available as I probably would have been disappointed.

The Sieg lathe does seem to be better quality than the other Chinese lathes imported into Au but it does have its issues. Oil leaks, rough unfinished castings, etc but it accuracy of machining seems OK. So far its seems capable of holding good tolerances and should only improve when I finish the final adjustments.

Your fitting of the Absolute DRO to your tailstock looks very professional- first rate upgrade. I am going to check if I have sufficient extension of the retracted tail stock barrel to allow the fitting of a clamp for the scale and still allow the barrel to retract sufficiently to eject the centre. I may have to extend the rear of all my centre and drill chuck arbours etc to allow the DRO to be fitted. The importer of my lathe is supposed to be trying to get the correct vernier for my tailstock but everything takes a long time dealing with overseas companies. Your Tailstock DRO would solve my dilemma.
How did you attach the Aluminium backing plate for the scale to the side of the tailstock?


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## mksj (Jun 29, 2015)

The DRO reader is mounted to some 3/8" aluminum stock, notched to hold the reader and held in place from behind by 2 small (that come with the DRO). The aluminum mount has 4 small Allen set screws in the corners and two Allen cap screw mounting bolts (behind the SS scale) to mount it to the body of the tailstock (tapped). I slotted and countersunk the cap mounting screw holes in the aluminum mounting plate to allow some adjustment range in the vertical plain of the tail stock. The four small allen screws are needed to adjust the reader so the scale does not bind. The SS scale aluminum holder on the tail stock spindle is a tight fit and held on by a single set-screw in the back (no real reason to have a big clamp system/screw, but to each their own). I milled a small channel that the end of the scale end fits into, it is held in place by two opposing Allen screws. This allows one to tweak the alignment in the vertical plain of the scale if needed. The SS scale can be cut, but it is very hard material.  The readings are rock solid and tracks perfectly with the tail stock dial over the full range.

I made a small extension arm to hold the readout onto the tail stock. Can swing the display up/down, and where the display mounts, you can swing it left/right.

Not sure what you are looking for in a lathe specific DRO. If you get into something like the Elctronica EL400 for the lathe, you will pay a premium for loosing a few buttons on the DRO display, it is sold to Australia by DROpros. http://www.dropros.com/Electronica_Lathe_Digital_Readout.htm


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## astjp2 (Jul 2, 2015)

I have junked a bunch of Hiamer's due to their going inaccurate,  every once in a while, take and move the stylus with your finger and check and see if its grinding or feels gritty.  I used them to verify the calibration on some bed mills at work and a few times a year I would find the Haimer was giving me really weird/not repeatable results.  They work really great, but unless you check them out once in a while, you could get one that is having problems and not know it.  My work just throws them in the trash, they say it costs more to fix than they are worth.....I would gladly get one fixed if I knew where....Tim


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## mksj (Jul 4, 2015)

The Haimer like test/dial indicators can be damaged, and repair is often more expensive than replacement. The digital Haimer would be expected to have a less complicated movement and may be more durable. Still, there are not many options that give reliable and accurate readings. I stumbled on another thread that discussed different edge finders, the analogue Haimer was overwhelmingly the preferred choice. 
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-personal-cnc-mill/274508-tormach.html


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