# What Is The Correct Name For This Tool?



## wlwhittier (Jun 2, 2015)

Hi...Noob here; first post.

I call this an adjustable die-plate.  eBay search shows nothing remotely similar.  This is beautifully made, and a pleasure to hold and fondle...I have another, smaller (European) version as well...but don't know what to call it so I can go scouting for more information on age, specific use, etc. 
	

		
			
		

		
	



As shown it's 9-5/8" long, 1-1/2" wide; the dies are 1/4" thick; weight is ~11-1/2 ounces.  when I got it there was an accumulation of dried lubricant, shop soil, very minor surface rust (mostly at the V-faces & between the die sections) as well as fine shavings in all the relief grooves and threads.  All better now.

When was 1/4-24 a popular thread?  I haven't determined what the other five dies will cut.

Thanks for looking!  wlw


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## T Bredehoft (Jun 2, 2015)

I'm not sure of it's name, but it is for repairing damaged threads. I don't know about 1/4 24, but I'm working on a project that uses 1/4 40 threads currently.


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## wlwhittier (Jun 2, 2015)

Thanks, Tom...1/4-40 sounds like optical, or other special.
This thing seems made to cut, rather than just repair...the dies are very hard, and several have chips adjacent the threads at the surface.
I'll post a pic of the other one soon.  wlw


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## T Bredehoft (Jun 2, 2015)

1/4 40, one rev = .025, an adjusting screw.


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## wlwhittier (Jun 2, 2015)

Here's the smaller one.  It was severely damaged by rust at one time...Someone 'fixed that' with a wire brush before I got it.
Note the maker: Henry Boker, and his logo; all parts 'serial' numbered 14; each die 'dual-purposed'.
Without chip relief at all this one may very well be for repair, not cutting new.
7" x 1-1/4"; weight ~4 ounces. wlw


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## brino (Jun 2, 2015)

Hey wlw,

First, welcome aboard!

Second, great pictures, especially of the second one. 

Sorry I cannot provide an answer for you, but I really appreciate you posting. I have never seen that tool before!

-brino


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## brino (Jun 2, 2015)

okay, I did a little searching and came up with a couple other Henry Boker tools:
http://collectiblehardware-tools.com/products/henry-boker

a couple similar threading dies:
http://collectiblehardware-tools.com/products/threading-die

and a boxed one on ebay from another manufacturer:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/221772128158?item=221772128158&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466&rmvSB=true
.....and that one shows a round die in the hole in the end, although it looks like that was just been stuck in the same box, and not actually used as a die holder.

-brino


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## The Liberal Arts Garage (Jun 2, 2015)

Probably





wlwhittier said:


> Hi...Noob here; first post.
> 
> I call this an adjustable die-plate.  eBay search shows nothing remotely similar.  This is beautifully made, and a pleasure to hold and fondle...I have another, smaller (European) version as well...but don't know what to call it so I can go scouting for more information on age, specific use, etc.
> 
> ...


Note at the screw end - I think you can drop out the half - dies to get at "inside " of
of a damaged thread.  Probably mostly used in a vise. Quarter--24 sounds useful,
but obsolete-- I like to use 12-24, but they are harder to get now.BLJHB.


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## churchjw (Jun 2, 2015)

I had a leather skive machine that had all 1/4-24 bolts.  Did a bunch of searching and found Harley Davidson was the only company that still makes bolts that size and they were not cheap.  Ended up just making custom ones on the lathe and made a tap to clean the threads out.


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## bleonard (Jun 3, 2015)

mi 1945 Harley Davidson has 1/4-24's
Bob


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## Silverbullet (Jun 3, 2015)

I think they were used by clockmakers and gunsmiths ,many years ago. I've seen them in pictures most are for fine threads , not to many have normal sizes we use today .


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## george wilson (Jun 3, 2015)

I do mechanical antique repairs and make parts,etc.. I actually use those threading dies,and early screw plates to make threads sometimes. Since threads were not made to set standards in the old days,you can adjust the diameter of your threads with this type of die.


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## Billh50 (Jun 3, 2015)

Some of those odd threads were used on older machinery. Brown & Sharpe was great for that on their machines years ago. Not a single screw on their machines had a thread that wasn't special. That way they could charge high prices for screws when needed. Many places ended up re-tapping for standard screws to save money.


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## benmychree (Jun 3, 2015)

Billh50 said:


> Some of those odd threads were used on older machinery. Brown & Sharpe was great for that on their machines years ago. Not a single screw on their machines had a thread that wasn't special. That way they could charge high prices for screws when needed. Many places ended up re-tapping for standard screws to save money.


Personally, I think Brown & Sharpe had every right to set their own standards for threads; it was a time when there were no standards that were commonly accepted, and our standards that we use now, came along much later than when B&S were building some of the finest machinery made.  I had a 1906 B&S #2 milling machine that I used in my business for about 30 years on a daily basis; at that time, the only non standard thread used on it was 1/2-14, rather than 13, and that at a time when the common standard was 1/2 - 12.


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## Billh50 (Jun 3, 2015)

Actually there were standards back then. The NC and NF standards came about in mid 1860's.

Screw threads for fasteners were cut by hand but increasing demands deemed it necessary from them to be factory made. J and W Wyatt patented such a system in 1760. The lack of thread standardisation made fastener interchangeability problematical.

To overcome these problems Joseph Whitworth collected sample screws from a large number of British workshops and in 1841 put forward two proposals:
1. The angle the thread flanks should be standardised at 55 degrees.
2. The number of threads per inch should be standardised for various diameters.
His proposals became standard practice in Britain in the 1860's.

In 1864 in America, William Sellers independently proposed another standard based upon a 60 degree thread form and various thread pitches for different diameters. This became adopted as the U.S. Standard and subsequently developed into the American Standard Coarse Series (NC) and the Fine Series (NF). The thread form had flat roots and crests that made the screw easier to make than the Whitworth standard that has rounded roots and crests.

Around the same time metric thread standards were being adopted in continental Europe with a number of different thread flank angles being adopted. For example the German Loewenherz had a thread flank angle of 53 degrees 8 minutes and the Swiss Thury thread an angle of 47.5 degrees. The standard international metric thread eventually evolved from German and French metric standards being based upon a 60 degree flank angle with flat crests and rounded roots.


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## george wilson (Jun 3, 2015)

I am talking about 18th.C. mechanical devices,not 19th. C. things. I have an avid collector customer who only does 18th. C. items. And,I was in Col. Williamsburg for 40 years as musical instrument maker,then tool maker. So,it's wired into my DNA!!

Some of those very small threads I have to reproduce look like light bulb threads(knuckle threads) when magnified.


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## Billh50 (Jun 3, 2015)

George I was not referring to your reply but to benmychree about the 1906 B&S miller. I do know that most threads prior to the standards were made mostly by hand and therefore of many different sizes and pitches.


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## stevemetsch (Jun 4, 2015)

I have a similar tool, with dies for 24, 32 and 36 tpi. It's cute.
It is not clear how you could cut a specified size (diameter) of thread since the dies would not be touching each other. But, it's cute.


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## scrdmgl (Jun 9, 2015)

wlwhittier said:


> Hi...Noob here; first post.
> 
> I call this an adjustable die-plate.  eBay search shows nothing remotely similar.  This is beautifully made, and a pleasure to hold and fondle...I have another, smaller (European) version as well...but don't know what to call it so I can go scouting for more information on age, specific use, etc.
> 
> ...



Multiple Thread Chaser I say.


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## wlwhittier (Jun 9, 2015)

Billh50 said:


> Actually there were standards back then. The NC and NF standards came about in mid 1860's.



What a great synopsis of the subject of thread standardization!  I'm grateful, Bill...Thanks!  wlw


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## w9jbc (Jun 9, 2015)

churchjw said:


> I had a leather skive machine that had all 1/4-24 bolts.  Did a bunch of searching and found Harley Davidson was the only company that still makes bolts that size and they were not cheap.  Ended up just making custom ones on the lathe and made a tap to clean the threads out.[/QUOTE
> 
> I believe there was something on davenport screw machines that used 1/4-24 threads. the taps are still on msc for purchase http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Threading/Taps/Hand-Taps?navid=12106035#navid=12106035+4288102712


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## w9jbc (Jun 9, 2015)

churchjw said:


> I had a leather skive machine that had all 1/4-24 bolts.  Did a bunch of searching and found Harley Davidson was the only company that still makes bolts that size and they were not cheap.  Ended up just making custom ones on the lathe and made a tap to clean the threads out.




I believe there was something on davenport screw machines that used 1/4-24 threads. the taps are still on msc for purchase http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Threading/Taps/Hand-Taps?navid=12106035#navid=12106035+4288102712[/QUOTE]


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## chips&more (Jun 9, 2015)

wlwhittier said:


> Hi...Noob here; first post.
> 
> I call this an adjustable die-plate.  eBay search shows nothing remotely similar.



They are a few similar on eBay, try searching “antique threading tool”. And handy to have around if you do any antique restoration. And from my personal experience in watch and clock making/restoring. It’s a rare occurrence if you find two threads the same! If you have an antique clock or watch missing a nut or bolt there is a good chance you will be making/modifying the threads of the replacement. There might have been a thread standard system in a company but not in the world of horology or with other manufactures.

A good tool to have around. And small, doesn’t take up too much space in a pile. And welcome aboard…Dave.


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## blake (Jun 9, 2015)

i'd call it a thread chaser as well.  very nice


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## wlwhittier (Jun 9, 2015)

These are the only others I have.  The longer is fairly old, the short one is new (unused) and I have no clue what threads are represented in either of them.  The seven taps are marked only with numbers corresponding to those on the die-plate.  The logo on the India-made plate is interesting, for a modern piece.  wlw


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## 75Plus (Jun 9, 2015)

w9jbc said:


> I believe there was something on davenport screw machines that used 1/4-24 threads. the taps are still on msc for purchase http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Threading/Taps/Hand-Taps?navid=12106035#navid=12106035+4288102712


[/QUOTE]
30 odd years ago a neighbor gave me a cigar box full of taps and reamers of various sizes. I just counted 19 1/4-24 taps, all US made,several by Pratt-Whitney, in a full range of condition. Some are rough and a few are like new. Looking at the MSC listings It would appear that they should bring a good price but if anyone has a need for one or a few just let me know. Postage is all I want, about $2.74 until the next postage increase.


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## machinist18 (Jun 10, 2015)

wlwhittier said:


> Hi...Noob here; first post.
> 
> I call this an adjustable die-plate.  eBay search shows nothing remotely similar.  This is beautifully made, and a pleasure to hold and fondle...I have another, smaller (European) version as well...but don't know what to call it so I can go scouting for more information on age, specific use, etc.
> 
> ...


 It's a thread chaser.


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