# Is an X2 type milling machine enough mill...



## Woodsman 22 (Aug 15, 2017)

...for the projects I have in mind? Specifically, there are one or two cast iron "kits" from this fellow;
"http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/" that I am interested in buying and trying to make. Also this kit ; "http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Saw_Table_Attachment.html" (I hope the links are okay and not against the forum policies). 

     The machines I have now are a Chinese 9 X 20 lathe, a very old (1939) Sheldon Metalworker lathe (with some broken back gear teeth and not in operating condition) and a Taig mill . I sincerely regret ever having bought the Taig as it does not take much at all to knock this "mill" out of tram no matter how hard the column nut is tightened. The mill is what I am not happy with and it will be up for sale on fleabay soon. Before anyone suggests a used Bridgeport- I don't have the room for one in my basement and wouldn't know how to get it down there if I did. And  I really don't want a machine as big as a Bridgeport in case I have to move to an apartment or smaller house in the future- my wife and I are getting up in years.

     So... will that X2 mill (I like the one from Little Machine Shop) be "enough" mill for the projects I have in mind? Thanks in advance for any replies.


----------



## Desolus (Aug 15, 2017)

I've had the oportunity to be next to a X2 mill running and I wasn't particularly impressed...
 meanwhile I can take a 1 inch deep 90 degree contact pass with a 3/8 end mill in mild steel on my sherline without any bad noises and a strikingly beautiful river of chips flying off, granted I'm useing relatively expensive tooling and going relatively slow. 

This all could be because I'm willing to do things right up next to the machines limits because I trust what the math says way more than I should... and the X2 works just as well. I don't know I haven't owned one. 

But if I had to place a bet on which would crap out first I'd pick the X2.


----------



## Ed ke6bnl (Aug 15, 2017)

I had a Burke mill which was very good, also the Rockwell Mill, not sure if you have room for them at at about 1/2 to 3/4 of a Bridgeport. I sold it for an old Bridgeport but could have used it for ever.


----------



## Woodsman 22 (Aug 15, 2017)

Desolus said:


> I've had the oportunity to be next to a X2 mill running and I wasn't particularly impressed...
> meanwhile I can take a 1 inch deep 90 degree contact pass with a 3/8 end mill in mild steel on my sherline without any bad noises and a strikingly beautiful river of chips flying off, granted I'm useing relatively expensive tooling and going relatively slow.
> 
> This all could be because I'm willing to do things right up next to the machines limits because I trust what the math says way more than I should... and the X2 works just as well. I don't know I haven't owned one.
> ...



     "I can take a 1 inch deep 90 degree contact pass with a 3/8 end mill in mild steel on my sherline"

            - I know that I must be misunderstanding this. It reads as if you are saying you can take a one inch deep pass in mild steel using a 3/8" end mill with a Sherline? I don't know nearly enough about machining but I am finding it hard to visualize that happening (no disrespect intended here, just figuring that I cannot possibly have understood your statement correctly).


----------



## silence dogood (Aug 15, 2017)

I have had a LMS 3960 for some time now and I'm happy with it.  It has a heavier column and a brushless dc motor over regular X2s.  The newer 3990 eliminates the spring, which is a plus.  For what you want to do, it should be fine.


----------



## Woodsman 22 (Aug 15, 2017)

silence dogood said:


> I have had a LMS 3960 for some time now and I'm happy with it.  It has a heavier column and a brushless dc motor over regular X2s.  The newer 3990 eliminates the spring, which is a plus.  For what you want to do, it should be fine.


     - Thank you for that. That is the kind of response I was hoping for. That particular mill is one that I was looking closely at, in fact.


----------



## Cadillac STS (Aug 15, 2017)

Desolus said:


> I've had the oportunity to be next to a X2 mill running and I wasn't particularly impressed...
> meanwhile I can take a 1 inch deep 90 degree contact pass with a 3/8 end mill in mild steel on my sherline without any bad noises and a strikingly beautiful river of chips flying off, granted I'm useing relatively expensive tooling and going relatively slow.
> 
> This all could be because I'm willing to do things right up next to the machines limits because I trust what the math says way more than I should... and the X2 works just as well. I don't know I haven't owned one.
> ...



Here is a picture comparison between X2 and Sherline.

X2 on the left. Which one would hold up better?

http://www.hossmachine.info/images/x2 vs sherline.jpg


----------



## Woodsman 22 (Aug 15, 2017)

Cadillac STS said:


> Here is a picture comparison between X2 and Sherline.
> 
> X2 on the left. Which one would hold up better?
> 
> http://www.hossmachine.info/images/x2 vs sherline.jpg



Thanks, but I already knew how small the Sherline is. In fact it is even smaller and lighter than the Taig mill (about half the weight of the Taig) that I already have and want to sell. I need something more rugged, heavier and powerful than either of these machines. But thank you for your input anyway.


----------



## Desolus (Aug 15, 2017)

Cadillac STS said:


> Here is a picture comparison between X2 and Sherline.
> 
> X2 on the left. Which one would hold up better?
> 
> http://www.hossmachine.info/images/x2 vs sherline.jpg



Huh, that is not the machine I was shown and told was the X2... the machine I was shown looked more like a light duty cnc engraver. Maybe I have the name wrong...



Woodsman 22 said:


> "I can take a 1 inch deep 90 degree contact pass with a 3/8 end mill in mild steel on my sherline"
> 
> - I know that I must be misunderstanding this. It reads as if you are saying you can take a one inch deep pass in mild steel using a 3/8" end mill with a Sherline? I don't know nearly enough about machining but I am finding it hard to visualize that happening (no disrespect intended here, just figuring that I cannot possibly have understood your statement correctly).



I'm using a (medium niceness) M42 3/8 end mill at -1 inch z height with the thickest part of the chip being a little less than 3 thou, on the lower rpm higher torc belt position, with only 90 degree cutter contact. It's not that unbelievable.


----------



## mikey (Aug 15, 2017)

Woodsman 22 said:


> ...for the projects I have in mind? Specifically, there are one or two cast iron "kits" from this fellow;
> "http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/" that I am interested in buying and trying to make. Also this kit ; "http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Saw_Table_Attachment.html" (I hope the links are okay and not against the forum policies).
> 
> The machines I have now are a Chinese 9 X 20 lathe, a very old (1939) Sheldon Metalworker lathe (with some broken back gear teeth and not in operating condition) and a Taig mill . I sincerely regret ever having bought the Taig as it does not take much at all to knock this "mill" out of tram no matter how hard the column nut is tightened. The mill is what I am not happy with and it will be up for sale on fleabay soon. Before anyone suggests a used Bridgeport- I don't have the room for one in my basement and wouldn't know how to get it down there if I did. And  I really don't want a machine as big as a Bridgeport in case I have to move to an apartment or smaller house in the future- my wife and I are getting up in years.
> ...



Can I ask what your priorities are - is it size, cost, rigidity or ... ?  The reason I ask is because the projects you linked to (not sure which one you intend to make from the first link) should work on most mini-mills so anything is fair game. To home in on the right mill for you, you have to define things better.

For a bench top hobby mill, I suggest thinking about:

Z-travel: this determines how big you can go, not so much table size. Just the vise alone will chew up some of this space so the more you have, the better.
Table travel in X and Y: this determines how big you can go, too.
HP: the more, the better. For a hobby mill, I think about 1HP is the least I would go.
Spindle mount: R8 spindles allow you to use the vast majority of the accessories on the market. 

Spindle speeds: the higher, the better. A VS motor is really nice to have but if not then gears/pulleys that allow you to go real slow for big cutters and real fast for smaller cutters is good. 

Mass: I think the minimum would be somewhere in the 400# range. Mass makes a difference, especially when taking deeper cuts and when boring.
Spindle travel: 5" is better, although 3" would be more common on smaller mills. 

Spindle bearings: precision tapered roller bearings is better than cheap, Chinese bearings.
Personally, the smallest mill I would even consider would be the PM-727M. It is big enough and featured enough to meet the needs of most hobby shops at a fair price. Of course, there are bigger/better mills but I would look at this as a good entry level machine.

By the way, I own a Sherline 5400 mill and it is much, much better than its size would suggest. I would put it up against much larger mini-mills, especially where accuracy is concerned. However, it is a small machine and trust me; mass tells.


----------



## Woodsman 22 (Aug 16, 2017)

mikey said:


> Can I ask what your priorities are - is it size, cost, rigidity or ... ?  The reason I ask is because the projects you linked to (not sure which one you intend to make from the first link) should work on most mini-mills so anything is fair game. To home in on the right mill for you, you have to define things better.
> 
> For a bench top hobby mill, I suggest thinking about:
> 
> ...



     Yes, a larger machine is called for in doing those projects that I listed and rigidity is the priority that I am looking for at this point. Definitely do not want a machine that has a column that "rotates" as does the Taig . I am not saying that the Taig (and Sherline) are not good machines for the small model work that they were evidently intended for - they are good when put to suitable work, but the projects I have in mind call for much more mass. I am just trying to get a handle on how heavy a machine that I 'must' go with in order to get acceptable results. Thanks so much for your input. I will look into the PM-727M you mentioned.


----------



## Woodsman 22 (Aug 16, 2017)

Desolus said:


> with the thickest part of the chip being a little less than 3 thou,


      That clarifies things, no need to be sensitive; I thought I made it clear  "that no disrespect was intended". Thanks for your input.


----------



## Desolus (Aug 16, 2017)

Woodsman 22 said:


> That clarifies things, no need to be sensitive; I thought I made it clear  "that no disrespect was intended". Thanks for your input.


I'M NOT BEING SENSITIVE YOU'RE BEING SENSITIVE!!! lol  

Sorry i wasn't much help though.


----------



## mikey (Aug 16, 2017)

Woodsman 22 said:


> Yes, a larger machine is called for in doing those projects that I listed and rigidity is the priority that I am looking for at this point. Definitely do not want a machine that has a column that "rotates" as does the Taig . I am not saying that the Taig (and Sherline) are not good machines for the small model work that they were evidently intended for - they are good when put to suitable work, but the projects I have in mind call for much more mass. I am just trying to get a handle on how heavy a machine that I 'must' go with in order to get acceptable results. Thanks so much for your input. I will look into the PM-727M you mentioned.



Seems like no matter what you choose, you'll always need a bigger machine at some point ... sad, but true. I think the 727 is a nice entry level machine and it should allow you to handle those projects you linked to without issues. A milling machine is where going bigger is almost always better. I do not feel that way about lathes but for mills, mass counts. 

Yeah, I know the Sherline mill is a tiny machine but I like it anyway. It handled everything I needed it to do for over 20 years until I stepped up to a bigger machine. Now I realize that bigger/more rigid/faster is better. So is spindle accuracy and adequate speed. I still use the Sherline a lot, especially when I need to work on really small stuff but I like my bigger mill better for most things. 

Good luck to you!


----------

