# Gear Train Noise - 10L



## itsme_Bernie (May 9, 2013)

Hey Guys- 

I want to start by thanking you all for your patience with m many questions about this new machine.

I just know I am especially paranoid not to be "the one" to ruin this lovely machine I just acquired, after 50 years of surviving so beautifully on Earth without me!


So, to my question.

I am probably used to my older very warn out machine, which was also very quiet when running the geartrain for feeds.  

BUT this really nice Heavy 10 I picked up recently is pretty loud when I run the feeds.  The noise is the consistent buzzing of the gears, and only comes from the spindle gear and the tumbler gears, where I would expect.  

Is it simply that these gears are not as "broken in" as my last 10L?  Or is there something out of adjustment, without enough clearance?  

I tried the Vactra Way Oil on the whole geartrain.  

Thanks Again,


Bernie


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## itsme_Bernie (May 9, 2013)

The more I keep reading, I see people saying that the Heavy 10 is just loud anyway.  Small reverse tumbler gears that are straight cut.  

I read someone swapping the two reverse tumbler gears around.  Cool idea.  I will try this and report back.

I am sure open to any other ideas.  I just don't want to bust this thing.


Bernie


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## brasssmanget (May 9, 2013)

I can't be of much help, but my Heavy 10L is pretty loud too when using the feed gears, FWIW.


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## itsme_Bernie (May 9, 2013)

Thanks BrassManget...  My main concern is I am not screwing this thing up.  That really helps man thanks! 

Bernie


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## Ulma Doctor (May 9, 2013)

hi Bernie,
loud operating gears are an indication of the backlash being either too great or too small if the noise is excessive.
straight cut steel spur gears have a sound all their own when transmitting power, the faster they run the more you hear them.
new gears have a different higher pitch to the running noise, worn in gears have more of a lower grumble in my experience.
an inspection of the individual teeth in the gear train is often helpful. you can see the wear pattern as a shiny looking band where the teeth mesh.
 if you were so inclined you could clean all the teeth in the train and apply prussian blue to the gears and get the real picture of what is happening in the gear train, the blue doesn't lie and blue doesn't cost a lot. 
it's a step i'd take if i was concerned about ruining an unknown gear train that was suspect of being too tight.
i can elaborate if necessary as to how to perform the operation.
shoot me a pm and let me know how i can help out!


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## itsme_Bernie (May 9, 2013)

Doc, thank you so much.

It is a higher pitch, which wouldn't surprise me, as this lathe otherwise appears very lightly used.

I believe the loudest gears are the spindle/tumbler gears.  Not surprising again, as they are turning the fastest.  Sadly, I don't know how much adjustment there is there.  Not any, if I am correct.

So far I have only heard lube options, and one idea to swap the two tumbler gears around.  But if the noise is due to LACK of wear, that would make them louder!!  Hah hah hah!  


Bernie


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## itsme_Bernie (May 9, 2013)

Oops- I will PM you too- but I don't want to be rude and use your time when I don't think I'll have time to try it until a few weeks from now- is that ok by you? 


Bernie


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## Bobby Bailey (May 9, 2013)

Bernie, We have a pristine 10L and it is not noisey, just pretty much a pleasant swooshing hum, kinda soothing really. 
Bobby


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## itsme_Bernie (May 9, 2013)

Bobby Bailey said:


> Bernie, We have a pristine 10L and it is not noisey, just pretty much a pleasant swooshing hum, kinda soothing really.
> Bobby



WHOH- thanks Bobby- and I HAVE GOT TO find out what is the deal with mine, and why yours is so quiet!  Mine is just screaming!

Oh man- any way you can find something like that out?  Hard to find what isn't there, like a noise..  Hah hah

I just wonder if you look where the spindle and reverse tumbler gears come together- mine seem too close. There is a TINY bit of play, but I suspect not enough.  The gears themselves seem to be pretty snug on their mounts.  There has got to be SOME way to give them a little room...  Argh


Thanks so much for telling me Bobby.  ANY light you can help me shine would be a big help!


Bernie


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## Bobby Bailey (May 10, 2013)

Bernie, I will take a close look at mine for the clearences tomorrow. Sorry not being much help right now.
Bobby


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## itsme_Bernie (May 11, 2013)

Thanks Bobby, whenever you can.  I have made some headway, but I really hope I can get them quieter than even now.

I found out more tonight when I decided to just disassemble the outside geartrain and see what was up.  And as clean as the lathe looked, and it is CLEAN- that there was perfectly packed grime!!  

Looking at it first, nothing looked out of whack.  As a matter of fact, surprisingly clean as the rest of the machine.  But it turns out, in every tooth, there was perfectly packed grime in EVERY tooth of the gears!  Like for a little while they were run with grease, then let run dry, then sit unused for a few years.  The grime was so perfectly packed in, I couldn't tell it was there until I soaked them in kerosene, and tried brushing the teeth with steel brush!

After having a hard time seeing ANY noticable wear anywhere, I took a guys advice (from PM named Gary) and reversed the reverse tumbler gears positions, and also flipped them.  While I was at it, I re-wicked the two gears and the center gear too- on the 1965 10L there are oil holes in the studs that hold the reverse tumblers, and wicks inside.

After the cleaning and flipping, they are quite a bit quieter with the spindle turning forward, and even quieter when the spindle is in reverse!  Hah

Maybe one more flip of gears?  Otherwise it is the main spindle gear warn more on the forward side.



Bernie


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## Bobby Bailey (May 16, 2013)

Bernie, I took a close look at mine. There is only the slightest bit of play in the gears. If I hold one and try to rock the other, I can just barely feel any movement. Cleaning the crud out of the teeth was a good idea.
Bobby


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## itsme_Bernie (May 16, 2013)

Bobby Bailey said:


> Bernie, I took a close look at mine. There is only the slightest bit of play in the gears. If I hold one and try to rock the other, I can just barely feel any movement. Cleaning the crud out of the teeth was a good idea.
> Bobby



Thanks so much Bobby-

I had the whole thing apart.  There was old grease on mine that had PERFECTLY packed the gear teeth.  I couldn't even tell it was there until I cleaned them!  I also reversed the positions of the tumbler gears, replaced the wicks, and added 75W gear oil.

Much better!


Bernie


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