# The South Bend heavy 9 Rebuild



## Rick_B

Hi folks - I'm a new guy so a brief introduction first. My full name is Rick Bruner and I reside in upstate NY (Syracuse area). I have been a woodworker for quite awhile (note that longevity doesn't necessarily equate to skill and over the last few years have been drawn in to the restoration/rebuilding of old WW equipment. 45 years ago i took a shop class that was required in my associate degree program - that involved running a lathe. That was the last time I did nay metal working to speak of - but I have always felt an attraction to the field. In anticipation of my recent retirement I bought and sold a number of small metal lathes (a no name, several atlas lathes, etc) - the more reading I did the more I realized I wanted a South Bend. One came up for sale last spring for a reasonable price and I jumped on it. I sold all of the other lathes I had been accumulating to focus on the SB. I recently started the rebuild process and thought I would document it here as well as several other forums - my strategy is to get as much exposure as possible because I know I will have a ton of questions.

The lathe is a 1939 9" X 36" south bend referred to as a "Heavy 9". The heavy 9 is almost a ten inch 1-3/8. It is capable of accepting 5C collets. This spindle is bigger than some 13" lathes. The previous owner indicated that the only difference between this lathe and the heavy 10 was 1/2" of swing. It is billed as a bench top on the serial card with an undermount drive - again a very unusual drive for a 9" lathe according to south bend. The bench it was previously on was basically a set of cast iron legs with a wooden plank top and a sacrificial hardboard cover. The more I looked at pictures and learned a little bit the more I didn't like the bench idea so I started looking around and was able to find a cast iron pedestal base with the underdrive mount, the cast iron TS leg and a chip pan. The seller is fairly well known and we were able to make a deal at a reasonable price. The problem was that it was 4 hours away. I was able to make a deal with another guy where he picked up my lathe stuff and I picked up a mortiser for him and we split the travel distance for an exchange.

The current state of the rebuild is that the drive and base parts have all been disassembled, cast iron parts were all shot blasted, machined parts/fasteners were all wire brushed and everything has been painted (some still drying). I tried to replicate the SB color based on one of the gear guards. I went to sherman williams and we matched it by eye. It seems close to me and I'm not really hung up on exact replication. My plan is to use the greenish/gray SB color with some black accents. I am brushing everything as I don't have spray equipment and its getting too cold in NY to use rattle can outdoors. I'll post some pictures after I start the re-assembly. There some links below to other forum threads (hope that is OK?) that document some of my initial efforts. I've changed horses a couple of times - started with the tail stock and put that on the back burner, completed the original drive and then decided to use the one that came with the pedestal base - so it may get a little confusing.

When I got the pedestal base and new drive - it had what was reported to be an original motor - it is a 1/2 HP, single phase, dual voltage, 1725 capacitor start motor with external reversing. It took me awhile to figure out that the motor leads had been previously connected inside the motor for 110. Once I discovered that I was able to re-assemble the motor and get it running. The motor has been disassembled, cleaned and painted and is also in the "paint drying stage".

The next phase is to let the paint dry a few weeks and then reassemble all of the base and drive parts. I'm expecting a buffer in a few weeks which I need for a few of these parts. In the meantime I may start some of the main lathe disassembly. There probably won't be a lot of progress until after the holidays. 

here's a link to a thread about the motor
http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=107029

And here's a couple of more links - the first is to an OWWM thread. In the future I plan on posting to each of these forums so I won't be linking as much. Note that the posts on these other forums are nearly identical so either one should catch you up.

http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=103355


And finally here's a picture of the lathe as I received it. Thanks for looking and thanlks in advance for all of the help I am going to need.


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## Rick_B

Thought I'd post a couple of completed motor pictures


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## Rick_B

well i started to reassemble the drive parts and ran into a question.  this drive has bearing surfaces machined into the cradle.  there are keyways in the bearing surfaces for felts and brass rings that hang from the  countershaft into a resorvoir of oil - i believe they are called  "oil slingers" and they bring oil up from the resorvoir to the countershaft and felts.

i got all of the parts assembled but noticed when i turn the countershaft by hand that there appears to be a lot of drag in it.  the parts are all clean and dry.  i'm wondering if this drag would be expected with no oil applied yet?    

thanks
Rick


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## Rick_B

Thanks Rick for the info - you can see my inexperience showing 

i tried oiling it with a little 3 in 1 and that resulted in a significant improvement.  i'm not up to'speed with the lubrication requirements yet but i think once i get the correct oil and the right quantity i will be ok.  Regarding damage by assembling dry . given that this is 72 years old and already had some wear - i think i shoild be ok?

Rick


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## Rick_B

Thanks Jim - that's good information.  I'm definitly still in a "learning mode" so I need all the help I can get


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## Rick_B

A brief progress report and some questions
I have gotten all of the base and drive parts completed and ready for re-assembly. I'm waiting until after the holidays for that. I've also got all of the major sub assemblies removed from the lathe bed and piled up on the bench




Hopefully I'll get them all back together at some point 

I cleaned up all of the reversing gear sub assembly pieces. I'm using Steve Brooks' manual and it describes in detail the installation of lubrication felt wicks. It appears there are two basic paths for lubrication - the reversing gear shaft and the twin gears. Both appear to be fed from a single oil tube.

My problem is that I think my reversing gear sub assembly is different. The reversing gear shaft lubrication path appears to match. However, the twin gears are completely different. The manual talks about drilling out a thin metal plug (I don't have that), knocking out a 1/8" dowel (I don't have that), installing wicks in that passage way which connect up with wicks just above the twin gear shaft hole and finally installing wicks in a keyway in the twin gear shaft. These paths all connect up and provide lubrication to the twin gears.

On my lathe - the twin gear shaft has a crosshole drilled through it which had a wick and a longitudnal hole from the top that connected up with the cross hole - no wicks in that hole as received.





I can see how this arrangement would work - my questions are - should the longitudinal hole have a wick and is this a separate oiling point - i would oil both twin gears through the logitudinal hole and then oil the reversing gear shaft through the oil tube.

Thanks

Rick


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## Rick_B

I got the saddle, crossfeed and compound disassembled and , as expected, there are a few problems. I'll post some pictures later but it appears that this poor lathe may have suffered a crash with a chuck. There are gouge marks on the end of the compound and crossfeed - I don't think they are serious - just aesthetic.

there is one serious problem - the crossfeed screw is bent and has damaged threads where the dial nut goes on. Also - at some point the crossfeed bushing was broken in half. So - I am in the market for a few parts - I'm checking the usual sources but may be back to BOYD. The picture below doesn't show the break so well but the hex section of the bushing is broken from the threaded section.


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## Rick_B

Thanks guys - I have a possible line on replacement parts.  I won't be able to check them out until after next week though.  The source for the parts believes a heavy 10 crossfeed is compatible.

Jim - thanks for the remake plans - unfortunately that is way beyond'my current skill level but I may use them if i need to hire so,eone to do this - now let's see who do I know with crossfeed experience -


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## Rick_B

thanks Rick - all very good points .  The source I have is very well respected and offers a no questions asked return policy so i feel pretty good about him.  I do appreciate your thoughts because I have purchased a few ebay items that didn't work as i hoped


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## Rick_B

While I'm waiting for a potential cross feed screw replacement I started disassembling the apron. It was going well until I got to the clutch assembly. in the picture below you can see a hex nut on a shaft on the left side and a worm gear on the right. This is a splined shaft that houses the clutch plates and goes through the worm gear. I got all of that off and removed the internal snap ring but I'm not sure of how the splined shaft and worm gear come out. I have one manual that says to press the shaft out and a parts diagram that looks like the hex nut may be threaded on the shaft. I'm thinking right now that I need to get that hex nut off and push the splined shaft/worm gear out to the right. Anyone have experience with this disassembly? if I am correct - is the hex nut left or right hand and how do I get it off - there's nothing to speak of that I can get a hold of to keep the shaft from turning ? Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks!
Rick


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## Rick_B

Rick - I hear ya  - with my level oof inexperience I'm trying to do this in sections - and fit in pieces between paint drying and other wood working projects.  I'm not sure how I ever got amything done before I retired 

Jim - I appreciate any info you can provide - thanks  It sounds like maybe the yahoo group may be a good place to visit - are they a pretty helpful group for beginners and hobbiests?

Rick


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## Rick_B

Now that I have the bed cleaned up and blasted - I'm wondering what the best way is to evaluate the ways - in other words what doi I look for.  This lathe is coming up on being 72 years old so I am expecting wear issues but I am really looking for usable - not perfect - that kinda matches my current skill level.
What I've noticed so far is that the scraping marks are clearly visible about halway down the bed from the headstock then they disappear (this is a 36" bed).  There are also some nicks in the VEE portion in some areas.  Finally there is a groove about 2/3 down the inside rear VEE back in the tail stock area.
What I woiuld like to be able to do is decide if I should pursue this lathe any further or if the bed is a total wash out?
Thanks
Rick


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## Rick_B

Jim - thanks so much for the reassurance - i am going to take your advice for sure.  one question though - when I run my hand down the ways I can feel some burrs where the nicks are - should i very lightly file those areas to remove the burrs?  thanks - i really appreciate your input.


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## Rick_B

Thanks Rick for the bed repair ideas - I've moved the bed back in the queue some. in the meantime I'm getting ready to do some re-assembly of the base and drive system on this lathe and I've got some lubrication questions.  I guess the first relates to the various lubricants recommended in the rebuild manual i'm using.  They are Mobile velocite 10, Mobile dte 32, Mobile dte 68 and Mobile vactra medium way oil.  Are any or all of these lubricants generally available locally (NAPA for example) and if not where do I head for them?  The second question relates to the ring oiling mechanism for the countershaft - the manual doesn't cover this so I'm wondering which of the above lubricants would be appropriate.   Also - how much oil would I put in the countershaft oil resorvoir - just enough to keep the ring in the oil?Thanks
Rick


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## Rick_B

I had a need to get something completed on this lathe  so I re-assembled the pedestal and drive parts. I think it came out pretty well - just not sure at this point about the drive belt tension. All that is left to do is get some oil for the countershaft and the conduit/wire for the motor electrical connections. The color is going to appear gray in the pictures below but it really has a lot of green in it. Chalk it up to my poor photography skills.


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## Rick_B

Thanks Rick - I appreciate the comments


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## Rick_B

Jim B. said:


> This comes up quite often on the Yahoo Southbendlathe group. I dont remember the answer.
> 
> If if now one here answerers I will try to dig up some information



Jim - i'm still struggling with this and was wondering if you ever had a chance to look for some info?

thanks

Rick


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## Rick_B

i finally got the clutch assembly apart.  Omce I figured out a way  to wedge/lock it I was able to get a wrench on the nut and give the wrnech a few quick raps and the nut loosened up.  from there the rest was easy.


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## Rick_B

I just posted a WTB for a crossfeed screw and bushing - same as heavy 10 with large dial.  Thought I'd post here as well in case not everyone frequesnts the classifieds.

Thanks

Rick


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## HMF

Rick_B said:


> I just posted a WTB for a crossfeed screw and bushing - same as heavy 10 with large dial.  Thought I'd post here as well in case not everyone frequesnts the classifieds.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rick




Rick,

Two people may have one- Ted Pflugner latheman2@aol.com or Ron Cammarata ipenelopepitstop@aol.com

Also- check Joe Bergamo at www.plazamachinery.com

The large dial ones don't come cheap. There is also a guy on Ebay "Xtrucker" who has them- but he isn't cheap.


Nelson


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## Rick_B

Thanks Nelson - I have already contacted both of your recommemded sources - unfortunately no luck.  Ted did give me the ebay guy but like you said not cheap.  Thought I'd try a few of the forums first.  One fellow from here has offeredto make one  - we're working on the details.

thanks
Rick


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## Rick_B

The undermount drive I am using came with a Gates truflex 3430 belt. The problem I am having is that when I install the belt I lose almost all admuntment on the tension rod. The motor mpounting plate and cradle are so close together that the conical washers do not seat correctly. When I get them seated right - the belt willl not fit. It appears I either need a bigger belt (44 or 45") or have something assembled incorrectly. Any ideas? it seems 44 or 45" belts would be longer than I have ever heard used but being a heavy 9 it might be correct. Any thoughts on the belt length for a heavy 9 9OR HEAVY 10)? in the picture below the conical washers are correctly seated but I could never get the belt on.

Thanks
Rick


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## Rick_B

thanks Rick - and don't apologize for over simplification - that's the kind of discussion I like.  After thinkimg about this i had pretty much came to the same conclusion.  belt length is not critical - as long as the motor is not hitting the floor  and i don't run out of adjustment.


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## Rick_B

OK - i've moved on to the gearbox while I'm waiting for a few other things and as expected I have a few questions .  Right now I'm focused on the cone gear assembly.
1.  The manual I'm using describes a taper pin in the retaining nut.  Mine doesn't have a taper pin or a hole for one in either the nut or shaft.  Has anyone ever seen this design?
2.  When reassembling the gears - the last 4 (smallest) do not slide on - they need to be pressed on.  That doesn't seem right - and while I can easily press them on outside the casting - I'm envinsioning a near impossible task inside the casting.  Should all of these gears easily slide on?
3.  The threads on the shaft are a bit damaged and i can't thread the nut on.  Does anyone know the thread diameter and pitch for this shaft.  I would like to try getting a tap die to clean the threads up.
Thanks
Rick


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## Rick_B

thanks Rick - any thoughts on the other questions?

Rick


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## Rick_B

Jim - regarding the tight fit - i'm not sure if the fit issue is shaft, key or both yet.  I'm still trying to work that out.  I got them disassembled by pressing the shaft out but I'm thinking they should assemble without the help of a press.

Rick  - I have the assembly disassembled and there is no hole in either the nut or shaft for a taper pin.  I found out from a few other guys with the same vintage machines that they did not have a taper pin either.  the general consenus was to drill and tap the nut for a set screw.
BTW - I didn't mention that the nut is pretty dinged up - almost like someone tried using a small punch to tighten it up - it was loose when i took it apart.  I think this supports the need for some means to lock the nut in place.


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## Rick_B

OK - problems resolved. I fixed the gear/shaft fit by using an ossicillating spindle sander to tune the ID of the tight gears. All gears now slide on easily. Regarding the missing taper pin in the locknut - this is apparently a design feature experienced by some others as well. I took the advice given and drilled/tapped the nut for a set screw. This locked the nut in place nicely. Finally the damaged threads on the cone shaft. I got a 5/8-18 die and planned on trying to clean them up. Unfortunately the root diameter of the die is smaller than the unthreaded shaft section so I couldn't get the die over the unthreaded section to reach the threaded section. So I used a standard hex nut I had to clean them up. The nut doesn't "spin " on but it will be workable.

Now onto the next set of challenges - the clutch gears. I've got two issues.
1. The pinion gear has a dowel pinion through it which rides in a groove in the shaft. Of course my dowel pin is missing - the hole and groove are present and accounted for - just no pin. So does anybody happen to know the dimemsions of this pin or have one laying around they would be willing to sell?

2. The manual I am using describes two set screws in the ends of the shaft. These apparently seal the oil pathway. I don't see any set screws. I do find a hole drilled halfway through the shaft which I think are oilers but how would you get to the horizontal pathway to clean it?

Thanks for any ideas
Rick 


​


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## Rick_B

Ah - thanls Jim.  I'd forgotten that little tid bit

Rick


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## Rick_B

thanks Jim for the info


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## Rick_B

well for once something went right - i discovered i had a bunch of 1/8 brass rod from a project a few years ago so i was able to fabricate the brass plug for use under the set screw.  thanks again to Jim for the reminder.

Jim - i tried the 1/8 brass rod for fit in the keeper pin hole.  it was a very tight fit so i'm going to try something a little smaller.  i'm assuming brass is not a good material choice for this?


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## Rick_B

I mocked up a prtottype by getting a shortpiece of 1/8 crs at the local hardware.  it fit pretty good so I am concluding the pin os'1/8" diameter X 7/8" long.  I was thinking of just using the crs but then i found a place where I can order 5 versus 100 so I'll probably order an alloy dowel pin.

With regard to  the missing set screws in the shaft ends - I figured I would drill and tap the ends for set screws.  Well I managed to really mangle that - off center holes, broken tap,yada, yada.  I ended up cleaning the oil paths with fine wire, an eye dropper and pipe cleaners which seemed to work well.  Right now I'm planning on sealing the mangled holes with some JB weld.


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## Rick_B

Well being in waiting mode again I moved on to the head stock. That all went pretty well except for the back gear assembly. I got the bushing lock screws out. I also got the taper pin out that goes through the eccentric bushing and shaft. Interesting that it came out in two pieces - but its out without any drilling or other magic. Here's the problem - according to the rebuild manual the shaft should now just pull out of the bushings and tube for the two gears - yeah right . It definitely is not coming out very easy. The gear assembly is turning easily so that is freed up. When I try to remove the shaft I can see that the bushings are turning with the shaft and its not coming out. I tried a bearing splitter on the end of the shaft under the handle - no luck. I've tried an arbor press - no luck. I didn't go very far with either of these methods for fear of breaking something. It seems like there is some other locking mechanism holding the shaft but I can't find anything. I've got the spindle and other stuff out of the casting so right now its just the casting and the back gear assembly. Is there something I'm missing? Any ideas on what to do next?

Thanks
Rick


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## Rick_B

Well now I'm disassembling the spindle and have a question or two. I'm down to the cone pulley but not sure how it is attached. There is a plunger on the bull gear that locks the cone cone pulley on the spindle. When that plunger is out the cone pulley spins freely on the spindle and has about a 1/4" of lateral movement and then stops - like its hitting some kind of stop. The fact that it spins freely tells me its not pinned to the spindle and I don't see any pins or screws (oyther than the oil hole screw in the second step) that would cause it not to come off. Here's a picture of the spindle and a second one of the plunger - you can see the plunger in the 2 o'clock position







Any suggestions or thoughts?

Thanks
Rick


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## Rick_B

Spindle problem resolved.  based on some advice I squirted some Kroil into the oil hole, let it sit a few minutes and then stood it up on some towels and banged the spindle end on the bench.  Cone pulley came right off.

Unfortunately in the process Idiscovered I am missing two teeth on the bull gear.  Oh well - another problem to resolve.


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## Rick_B

thanks Jim - I just sent some to Mike.


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## Rick_B

Another problem resolved - I found a source for both chipped gears at a reasonable price.  i also got the jack screw holes drilled and tapped in the pedestal base and got all of the headstock parts cleaned and painted.  i'm starting to feel like i might actually pull this off - of course i haven't reassembled anything yet


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## Rick_B

I thought it was time for a brief update. I’ve been making some pretty good progress recently. I think I’m finally through the greasy, grimy clean up stage. Most of the parts and pieces have been disassembled, cleaned and painted (excluding the tailstock). A number of problems have been identified and, for the most part, resolved.
1. Motor drive belt adjustment – new longer belt installed which provides room for adjustment should I need it.
2. Electrical issues resolved – wiring from motor to junction box to switch installed and tested
3. Missing taper pin (no hole for taper pin) on the cone gear locking nut resolved by drilling and tapping for a set screw.
4. Missing dowel pin on the clutch dog gear replaced with off the shelf pin. Burrs in the pin hole required some tune up with a small drill.
5. Bent cross feed screw – in process of repair by another member.
6. Problem with back gear disassembly – finally figured that out and got it apart.
7. Missing teeth on back gear and bull gear – replacement gears found.
8. Several missing/broken taper pins – replacements obtained
9. Damaged threads on spindle end – take up nut – thread restore files on order
10. Lathe placement and leveling – spot picked; jack screw concept with foot pads to be used for leveling – stole that idea from another member. Base parts drilled and tapped for 5/8 -18 jack screws; waiting for pads.

One remaining unknown is the speed change handle on the apron – I really mangled that trying to get the taper pin out. I think the replacement taper pin will work but I may end up having to replace the handle itself.

Pieces and parts awaiting assembly - this doesn't include a half dozen boxes/bags of stuff




Lathe placement – nothing is bolted together yet so any thoughts or suggestions will be appreciated







Assembled gear box – needs some paint touch up after assembly.

Before






After












Next up – assembly of reversing gears followed by the apron

One question on the gear box – there is a long brass tube for oiling that I need to bend out of the way of the shifter and I’m not sure it is properly positioned. What is the target of this oiler?
Thanks for looking and more to come.
Rick


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## Rick_B

with the help of others i think i now understand where the long copper oil tube needs to be positioned.  it needs to feed oil into the oil hole in the shift lever when the shift lever os positioned in the hole/slot under the oil hole in the casting.   Rick


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## Rick_B

Hello folks - well I'm back after a 2-1/2 month hiatus due to some health issues that I won't bore you with the details. Today I got back to the lathe - specifically organizing the apron parts for reassembly. I discovered that somewhere along the line I've lost a part. It is the lock ring that goes on the splined clutch shaft - just below the lobed clutch rings.

Does anybody know the size of this lock ring - or better yet have one laying around they would be willing to sell  ? The part number is PT408R1.

Thanks for any help you may be able to offer.

Rick​


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## 12bolts

Rick_B said:


> It is the lock ring that goes on the splined clutch shaft



Rick, I dont know the specific part you are looking for but I do have a few spare bits around.
Can you post a pic of where it goes and also the measured size of the part it threads on to?

Cheers Phil


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## Rick_B

Thanks Phil -Imay have found a source for a NOS retaining ring.  Let's see how that works out.  I may be getting back to you


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## Rick_B

Retaining ring problem solved - i found a guy that that had some available

Rick


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## Rick_B

Thought I'd give a brief progress report. I've completed the apron re-assembly - less the chip guard and oilers. I'm waitng for the new worm key to arrive before I complete those pieces.

I also got the pedestal base and tail stock leg levelers installed and have assemble the bed to the pedestal and TS leg along with the chip pan. I got that pretty much leveled at this point. The electrical is also completed and the motor is running as expected through the rotary switch.

Now on to the saddle and cross slide/compound.


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## ScrapMetal

Looks great Rick.  Makes me (almost) want to pull mine apart and fix it up nice. :thumbzup:

-Ron


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## Rick_B

Thanks Ron- there's a method to my madness.  I started knowing nothing about how a lathe works.  I nkow have an iimate understanding of what is going on inside the apron when a control lever or half nut lever is changed.

Rick


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## ScrapMetal

Rick_B said:


> Thanks Ron- there's a method to my madness.  I started knowing nothing about how a lathe works.  I nkow have an iimate understanding of what is going on inside the apron when a control lever or half nut lever is changed.
> 
> Rick



That's the great part of a rebuild.  I am having a similar learning experience with my Queen City shaper as I try and bring it back to life.  My SB?  For the moment I'll "learn vicariously" by watching others do rebuilds. :biggrin:

-Ron


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## Rick_B

After a lot of help from a number of members here and on other forums (Ronnie and Ted providing a number of needed parts, Iwannanew10k rebuiling the crossfeed screw and compound screw dial and jayhawkman making a new CF nut) Ihave finally gotten the QCGB, apron, saddle, crossfeed and compound back together and reassembled to the lathe.

Now onto the headstock. The lathe came to me without capillary wicks and when disassembling I didn't take a many pictures so I'm looking for some verification on a few things.
in the picture below you will see there is a hole in the headstock casting for what I believe is the capillary wick (one installed) and two smaller holes on each side of it. I believe the smaller holes are vent/oil return holes and don't take any wicks and I think the capillary wick is installed properly. Any disagreement about this?




The second picture is with the spindle installed - does everything look right with this?




Thanks
Rick


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## Rick_B

*Lubrication Question*

i've got the head stock and drive gears reassemble and started oiling it up.  Steve's manual recommends teflon grease for the spindle cone pulley and back gear shaft.  The SB bulletin "Oiling the Lathe" suggests a few drops of oil in both of theses areas.  What-s the best approach?  If grease - how much

Thanks

Rick


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## Splat

*Re: Lubrication Question*



Rick_B said:


> i've got the head stock and drive gears reassemble and started oiling it up.  Steve's manual recommends teflon grease for the spindle cone pulley and back gear shaft.  The SB bulletin "Oiling the Lathe" suggests a few drops of oil in both of theses areas.  What-s the best approach?  If grease - how much



I'm in the process of reconditioning my 57 Heavy 10 and after seeing what I'm seeing I say stay away from grease. The PO of my Heavy 10 used grease almost everywhere. There is swarf and stringers caked up in the grease. Grease holds the chips. Oil, for the most part, moves  them along. I've done so much reading on the grease-vs-oil debate my head's gonna pop. :banghead:  A lot of guys are using the Type C oil with no problems for years. So with that I've decided to use Type C oil, applying it whenever I go to use the lathe, back gears or not.


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## Rick_B

Thanks Splat  - that makes sense.  I'm gpoing to use oil as well.


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## Rick_B

Well here's my first "fine adjustment" question.   It seems I am getting excessive noise with the back gear engaged - problem is I don't really know what excessive is.  I've attached a you tube video that I hope will allow you to determine if further adjustment is needed.  I've got minimal free play in the back gear when engaged.  The first part of the video is without back gearing you can hear the "soothing" sound of the metal lacing   .  The second part os trying to demonstrate the free play in the back gear.  The final section is demonstrating running with the back gear engaged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMDPuARPUHo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Thanks for any advice you may have
Rick


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## Rick_B

I tried some recommendations for lubrication the open faced gears.  I used a 90 weight gear oil which quitted it down some.  I'm calling it good and moving on.  My biggest concern is that something wasn't assemble right.

Next up is the gear train - that is really making some noise.  I'm hoping to get a video tomorrow.

Thanks
Rick


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## Rick_B

OK - I've attached a video of the gear train. It is loud - much noisier in person than on the video. I appreciate any suggestions. Maybe this is another case of it being normal and me being inexperienced. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVvaIR7Ygn0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Thanks
Rick


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## Rick_B

I think I may have found the source of the offending noise.  I put some oil on the gear faces and it seemed to quiet down quite a bit.  Then I started isolating the gears.  During this process I noticed that the real bad noise was only evident when the sliding gear was "in".  I pulled the banjo to make sure I had it assembled correctly and lo and behold it appears there is a ball detent, spring and screw missing.  It appears the ball fits grooves in the shaft that maintains position of the sliding gear.  When the sliding gear is out it can still move but there is nothing for it to interfere with.  When it is in I think it is slopping around and hitting adjacent gear surfaces.  Make sense?

In any event I am trying to source those parts to eliminate that as the potential problem.  In the meantime, I'm going to start on the tail stock - At least one question to follow soon 

Thanks
Rick


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## Rick_B

The final major piece - the Tail Stock. Somewhere way upthread I think I started with this problem but I will repost the issue so you don't have to go searching.

The tail stock that came with the lathe had an aftermarket non-SB handle, the screw was mangled where the handle locks in place, the bed clamp was user fabricated and the quill locking clampo had some significant "work" done on it. So all in all it was a mess. I have gotten proper parts to fix these problems but am left with one bigger issue.

The TS base plate has a brass shim on the flat side (see pictures below) and the V side has a groove about 3/4 of the way up the V. I'm thinking this is going to be nothing but problems as I proceed?
If I can find a new baseplate what would be required? I have read about scraping the TS to fit the bed but really don't know what that means. Is this a big deal to do?







Thanks
Rick


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## Rick_B

Good evening folks. Well this journey started just about 17 months ago when I brought home a heavy 9 south bend lathe. At that time I didn't even know how to turn it on or what all of the various knobs and doo dads were for. I decided to do a complete tear down primarily to get an understanding of the inner workings of the lathe but also to give it a good cleaning.

I didn't so anything for the first 7 months except look at it and wonder what I had got my self into. In Septemeber 2011 I started the tear down. I took a couple of months off recently due to some health issues and then got back it in March 2012. Today I put the last cover on and called it done.
Whiule this restore doesn't meet the museum quality standards set by some others (you know who you are )every nut, bolt, screw, casting, gear and shaft was disassembled, cleaned and painted. I learned a ton through that process and wouldrecommend it to anyone who is a relative newby to lathes. I do have to say that it would never have happened without the generous help and support of many folks on this and other forums. I'm not going to name names because I'm sure I would forget one or more but you know who you are. Hopefully this process will allow me to give back to others based on what I have learned.

My next steps are to do the fine tuning / set up - primarily the tailstock alignment and recheck of the leveling. Then I will move to develop the skills necessary to actually make something  - so expect a lot more questions.

Here's a link to a short youtube video with somebefore and after pictures.
Sb Movie with Music - YouTube

Enjoy and thanks again.
Rick


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## HMF

Rick,

Your rebuild is a real learning experience for the rest of us and I thank you sincerely for it.

Please ask the gang any questions you may have about operation- they can give you some great answers. We have some wonderful people on here!


:tiphat:Nelson


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## woodtickgreg

You say this is not a museum quality rebuild but I disagree! It has turned out beautifully! What a great looking machine, If my 10L rebuild turns out half as good as what you have done on this one I'll be happy. Great job, well done!


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## Rick_B

thanks formthe coomemts - i do appreciate them

Rick


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## rw1

Terrific work and Presentation.  Not taken lightly.......only admired. 

Thank you!


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## jumps4

wow you have a gift for restoration 
very impressive did you get it dirty yet)
steve


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## Rick_B

Steve - yep its getting dirty - the first time was the hardest butI restored it to use not look at :

Rick


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## jumps4

I know what you mean about the first
I just got a new lathe it came painted white? what where they thinking
well your lathes ready for another 70 years  good job
show some parts when you get a chance
steve


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## Chester

shawn said:


> Beautiful work Rick, definitely something to be proud of. I did the same as you, bought a lathe with no machining experience and restored it. Not only do you learn what everything on the lathe does but also how it does it. That experience transfers over to the other tools you will undoubtably be buying as well.
> 
> Shawn



Hi, I am trying to restore a heavy 9, but having trouble fitting gears on end of head spindle. I been buying gears for a 9, should I be getting gears for a heavy 10? Is the heavy 9 head stock same as a heavy 10. I also have single handle quick gear change box, but 9 banjo does not fit, to big. This lathe was in parts not sure I have right gears. I am a 65 year old student who never did any machine work. I don' t know if I am in right place writing tis, just looking for help. Thanks Chester


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## Chester

Rick_B said:


> Steve - yep its getting dirty - the first time was the hardest butI restored it to use not look at :
> 
> Rick



Hi, Rick I cannot tell you how nice of a job you did! I am re building a heavy 9 also, but having trouble with gears that go from spindle to lead screw, also the banjo I have a single handle quick gear box. Can you help me on books or pictures? I can see from some of your pictures I have wrong gear door cover. I am 65 retire lab tech fom a chemical plant, had no machining knowledge. Now I am going to Vo Tech for machining, learn a lot but so more to go, also having some fun. Thanks Chester


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## Rick_B

Chester - when i started i bought the book and kit linked below.  I talked with Steve (guy who sells it) and he said it was not specific to the heavy 9 but was proably as close as Iwas going to get.  Many sections are a direct fit - a few are not.  when you hit those areas come back and ask questions - lots of helpful/smart guys here.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rebuild-Boo...078?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2563cc095e

Rick


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## Chester

Rick_B said:


> Chester - when i started i bought the book and kit linked below.  I talked with Steve (guy who sells it) and he said it was not specific to the heavy 9 but was proably as close as Iwas going to get.  Many sections are a direct fit - a few are not.  when you hit those areas come back and ask questions - lots of helpful/smart guys here.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rebuild-Boo...078?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2563cc095e
> 
> Rick


Rick, I have have similar book only it is for a 9. I have made a counter shaft, door holler, but wrong door, etc. My problem now is the gears and banjo. The book show only a double handle quick box, and nothing about the gears. I see you have single arm banjo, my book show only a double arm. I would get this book about 10 lathe if it would work. Right now it seem every thing I am getting is wrong item. I order a 20t gear for a 9, doesn't fit, same with banjo. Is heavy 9 so different from a regular 9? I am really lost here. I have about the right knowledge to be dumb. Thanks and anything would great, Chester


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## Rick_B

Chester - my understanding is that a heavy nine is a lot closer to a heavy ten than a nine - there are definite differences though so you will find some grey areas.  can you post a picture or two of what your current problem is?

Rick


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## Rick_B

Chester - I just checked the manual i linked below - it does cover both the single and double tumbler gear box.  also  here is another link to Ozark Woodworkers - he has parts list for SB lathes.  I found it to be very helpful.  I would suggest you call him to get the best manual for your lathe.
http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/SOUTH-BEND-10L-13-145-16-24-40-50s-Lathe-Part-Manual_p_665.html

Rick


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## Chester

Rick_B said:


> Chester - my understanding is that a heavy nine is a lot closer to a heavy ten than a nine - there are definite differences though so you will find some grey areas.  can you post a picture or two of what your current problem is?
> 
> Rick



Rick, after I saw a regular 9 and a heavy 10, plus your, I started to think this. The banjo, door and gears that I purchase didn't fit. Thanks to you I think I am on the right path. As I have said I am in  a Voc Tech school with high school kids, I am retire and 65 years old, married today for 37 years. This project start this Sept. at Voct Tech., I start school last Jan. At first I was just doing it all, but little by little kids start watching more and asking if they could help. Somehow it become important to them. When we got the thing together, no auto feed, and plug it in the kids start clapping, my treacher was suprised, as well as myself. Each have taking turns cutting. It a great feeling to build something as people have said about your lathe. What I am trying to say is Thanks very much, Chester


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## Chester

Rick_B said:


> Chester - I just checked the manual i linked below - it does cover both the single and double tumbler gear box.  also  here is another link to Ozark Woodworkers - he has parts list for SB lathes.  I found it to be very helpful.  I would suggest you call him to get the best manual for your lathe.
> http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/SOUTH-BEND-10L-13-145-16-24-40-50s-Lathe-Part-Manual_p_665.html
> 
> Rick


Rick, I will look into this site, thanks agin, Chester


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## rw1

Rick_B said:


> Thanks Ron- there's a method to my madness.  I started knowing nothing about how a lathe works.  I nkow have an iimate understanding of what is going on inside the apron when a control lever or half nut lever is changed.
> 
> Rick




Rick,

This quote you had earlier in the thread is exactly how I feel now.  After restoring the Apron -  I know what it does, how it works, whats going on )

BTW - If there was ever a "show room Apron"....man, this is it.....beautiful!


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## Chester

Rick_B said:


> Chester - my understanding is that a heavy nine is a lot closer to a heavy ten than a nine - there are definite differences though so you will find some grey areas.  can you post a picture or two of what your current problem is?
> 
> Rick



Rick, post a picture, I am lucky I can type on this thing, remember I am 65 , beside that I seen your pictures. I would have to change my name and move. Chester Happy Thanksgiving!!!!


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## Rick_B

Chester - pictures aren't that hard -really   I'm 63 so let's mot bring up age :. if you do  a search you'll probably'find a set of imstructions for photo posting.  Pictures really'do help to clarify questons and get yu more help.  Check in the practice forum - i think there is something there

Rick


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## Chester

R





Rick_B said:


> Chester - pictures aren't that hard -really   I'm 63 so let's mot bring up age :. if you do  a search you'll probably'find a set of imstructions for photo posting.  Pictures really'do help to clarify questons and get yu more help.  Check in the practice forum - i think there is something there
> 
> Rick



Rick, I will try  the practice forum and to get a picture. Thanks for telling me about this forum. Hope you and everyone had a happy thanksgiving, Chester


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## Chester

Chester said:


> R
> 
> Rick, I will try  the practice forum and to get a picture. Thanks for telling me about this forum. Hope you and everyone had a happy thanksgiving, Chester



Rick, I cannot get a picture from cell phone to I-Pad. Mr. Woodpickgreg has pictures of a heavy 10 of single arm banjo with the two large and smaller gears, one a sliding gear, which is what I have. The two gears I am missing are the wider gear that fit on single tumbler gear box, and the gear lacated right below double reverse gears on the outside running on the large gear on the banjo, not the. sliding gear. He counted the tooth number and mearsue the diameter, i don't think they would fit my lathe. This may be one of the small differents your talk about, between a heavy 9 and heavy 10. If you have any idea of what I am trying to say, could you tell me the diameter and tooth count of these gears. I only have three more weeks of school, and really would like to having it  running for the kids. It seem we are the only people that have a heavy 9, single tumble gear box, and I am lost here. Thanks for all you have done, and still working on some pictures. Chester


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## jster1963

EXCELLENT job sir!  I am restoring an Atlas 618 lathe and hope it turns out as good as yours!  The only experience I have with a lathe is from 35 years ago in my high school metal shop.  I am making every mistake in the book, but I'm learing every step of the way.  I am also posting videos to youtube because "If a picture is worth a 1000 words, a video is worth a million"!    Thank you very much for sharing this.......


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## yachtsmanbill

Pics are a breeze and videos arent much harder... pm me for instructions if you need to...   ws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygJz8nWve24

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCH2RLAheaw


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## Chester

yachtsmanbill said:


> Pics are a breeze and videos arent much harder... pm me for instructions if you need to...   ws
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygJz8nWve24
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCH2RLAheaw



Hi, I have pictures on my e mail, can not get them from there to here. Your instructions would be helpful. Thanks, Chester


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## Apostle10

Rick,

  I had NO IDEA of the magnitude of your rebuild.  I salute you for doing an INCREDIBLE JOB and bringing an old beauty back to life.  It looks better than new!  I take back the suggestion about selling which I made on the phone the other day.  Hang on to this baby - but IF you ever do decide to sell, that figure you mentioned is far too low.

  Again, congratulations on a fine job.

Regards,

Mike




Rick_B said:


> Good evening folks. Well this journey started just about 17 months ago when I brought home a heavy 9 south bend lathe. At that time I didn't even know how to turn it on or what all of the various knobs and doo dads were for. I decided to do a complete tear down primarily to get an understanding of the inner workings of the lathe but also to give it a good cleaning.
> 
> I didn't so anything for the first 7 months except look at it and wonder what I had got my self into. In Septemeber 2011 I started the tear down. I took a couple of months off recently due to some health issues and then got back it in March 2012. Today I put the last cover on and called it done.
> Whiule this restore doesn't meet the museum quality standards set by some others (you know who you are )every nut, bolt, screw, casting, gear and shaft was disassembled, cleaned and painted. I learned a ton through that process and wouldrecommend it to anyone who is a relative newby to lathes. I do have to say that it would never have happened without the generous help and support of many folks on this and other forums. I'm not going to name names because I'm sure I would forget one or more but you know who you are. Hopefully this process will allow me to give back to others based on what I have learned.
> 
> My next steps are to do the fine tuning / set up - primarily the tailstock alignment and recheck of the leveling. Then I will move to develop the skills necessary to actually make something  - so expect a lot more questions.
> 
> Here's a link to a short youtube video with somebefore and after pictures.
> Sb Movie with Music - YouTube
> 
> Enjoy and thanks again.
> Rick


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## Rick_B

Thanks Mike - I appreciate the commnts.  I suspect you have a better understanding of the emonional attachment we talked about.

Rick


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## Apostle10

Rick,

  Indeed I do understand your attachment to it. 

  I urge you to check the TIR (total indicated runout) by bringing a dial indicator to the inside of the spindle and hand turning it.  I have a feeling you'll be surprised.

  Please let me know what you find, okay?

Mike




Rick_B said:


> Thanks Mike - I appreciate the commnts.  I suspect you have a better understanding of the emonional attachment we talked about.
> 
> Rick


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## woodtickgreg

Nice video slideshow! Your work is as good as anybody's, that's a great looking south bend, it looks a lot like my heavy 10L. She's a beaut! Very nice of you to share it with us. I know you are as proud of your lathe as I am of mine. Our works on our machines should inspire others to do the same and save these great old machines from the scrap yards. I feel that I have preserved a piece of our industrial history. Like you I too had a medical set back that put my work on hold while I healed up, but we persevered and got em done! Congratulations on your accomplishments and fine work.


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## stonehands

Rick,I might be late to the party,but did you get a replacement for your cross screw bushing? On my last trip to my parts supply I found a box with a bare Hvy 10 bushing.Let me know if you are still in need.Paul also had a NOS big dial cross screw assembly,but it was salty,if you know what I mean.--David


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## geraldsd

Great Video!  I have just purchased a SB 9 Standard.  Mine is in pretty good condition.  I can't wait to tear into it...thanks for the impetus to get going!


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## Rick_B

stonehands said:


> Rick,I might be late to the party,but did you get a replacement for your cross screw bushing? On my last trip to my parts supply I found a box with a bare Hvy 10 bushing.Let me know if you are still in need.Paul also had a NOS big dial cross screw assembly,but it was salty,if you know what I mean.--David


David - I did get the parts i needed - actually a member on another forum completely rebuilt crossfeed screw and another made a nut.  Thanks anyway.

BTW - still working n the other thing.

Rick


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