# I Heard This May Be Possible...



## Oregoner (Nov 17, 2016)

I'm in need of a complicated die for cutting leather. I've been pricing steel rule dies, but even the most sophisticated can't quite seem to meet my needs. A friend suggested that I mill my own die from a block of steel. I'd like to know if that seems possible, and if so, if y'all could give me a starting point for getting it done.

The problematic complexity of the die is that I want it to have two straught rows of 60 integrated awls that would punch thread holes at the same time as the die blade cuts the shape of the leather. 

Does this sort of project seem possible?

Thanks!


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## Christian Poulsen (Nov 17, 2016)

Well, anything is possible so if your friend says it, it sounds like the starting point would be your Mill and the tool steel stock...But as for my input, I would have to see the print(s) or a dwg. (other than probably the usual milling flat, square and parallel to size then the detail on the unhardened stock and then heat treat (Possibly prehard tool steel and with stock, catalog hardened pins and blades since it's for leather then you don't have to consider heat treat)...
...it sounds like maybe stamping dies or progressive tooling (holes, blades, "imprints") I have made (sometimes mounting in a 3 or 4 post die set like a Danly) but depending on?? I'm pretty sure you (maybe) can get less complicated?  (like without a surface grinder, EDM...and yada, yada)


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## Christian Poulsen (Nov 17, 2016)

Oregoner said:


> I'm in need of a complicated die for cutting leather. I've been pricing steel rule dies, but even the most sophisticated can't quite seem to meet my needs. A friend suggested that I mill my own die from a block of steel. I'd like to know if that seems possible, and if so, if y'all could give me a starting point for getting it done.
> 
> The problematic complexity of the die is that I want it to have two straught rows of 60 integrated awls that would punch thread holes at the same time as the die blade cuts the shape of the leather.
> 
> ...



...Yeah, (duh, I just looked at your included dwg) and  just off hand and looking at your included dwg as a part print; I'm thinking a need for tooling prints with/including hardened tool steel 58-60 called out, with tooling tolerances (for punching, stamping) and for whatever leather needs and mounted in a holder ifn' you want it to punch out everything at once 
Am I on track or off?
If I'm "on track", we're getting complicated for a beginners forum...(But maybe we can make it easier...


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## wa5cab (Nov 17, 2016)

It's probably doable, although I would expect that it would be cheaper to make three or four dies and make the part in four or five steps.  However, if I needed such a part and didn't need several thousand or more pieces, I would call a custom leather parts maker that I use and have them make it for me.  If you want their name & etc, send me a PM.

As a side note, if the part must be made to metric dimensions, you need to re-dimension your drawing to millimeters.


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## Tony Wells (Nov 17, 2016)

Sub it to a laser shop.


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## JimDawson (Nov 17, 2016)

I would say it's completely possible.  As an old tool & die maker, it looks like a somewhat simple die.  I think the leather could be punched out in one shot from a blank.  You would want the awls (sewing needles?) set in the die as individual pieces just in case one breaks.  You want to be able to replace them.  A ribbon die would not be out of the question for this application.  I've never built one, but I know a guy who can.

Laser or water jet cutting might be an option also.  Not sure if the edge would char with a laser, but I don't think it would.  I can hook you up with a laser/water jet cutter guy.

In reading your introduction I see you have no machine tools or metal working experience.  Without machine tools the die would be difficult to build.  A milling machine and a surface grinder would be needed.

I might know where there are some used die sets and a used punch press.  

I guess the first question is how many pieces are you planning on making?  To justify building a die would require 1000's of pieces.  Just the materials for the die will be a few hundred $$


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## Christian Poulsen (Nov 17, 2016)

Yes, what these guys said....
...keeping in mind a simple hardened steel tool set with a 1.0000 round ID die with a "hair" of a lead in, and a .998- 9985 punch (no ejector or stripper plate (yada), mounted and aligned (using SHCS's and dowel pins) in a simple milled  "top and bottom" holder with 3 posts and bushings ....(most parts ground)...all just to stamp out (through) a run of 1.000 dia. sheet metal discs using a small arbor press...would cost you $500 to me over 5 yrs ago lol, (less than half some other places on earth)...and $200 without the holder and good luck aligning and smacking the punch with a hammer but the stock helps guide the punch in the die....also the tooling will need sharpening (surface grinding) now and then depending on how many "parts" (I would imagine with leather too, maybe more often)


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## Charles Spencer (Nov 19, 2016)

That looks like a clicker die (see:  http://www.tippmannindustrial.com/clicker-700-die-cutting-machine-p-117.html).  We used to make them in the cutting die shop I worked in.  We also made shoe dies.  The outside would be made from a single piece of beveled edge steel bent into shape (forged) on an anvil.  The windows would be made separately the same way.  They would then be sharpened, tempered, and final sharpened.  Finally they would be welded to a back plate.  The stitching holes wouldn't be punched because the customers all used leather stitching machines. 

I found a hand operated clicker machine online (http://longviewleather.com/master-tools-hand-operated-clicker/), but I don't know anything about those.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Nov 19, 2016)

You wish to do one part per stroke of a press?


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## Oregoner (Dec 2, 2016)

Sorry for not responding sooner (I'm on a Navy ship without much access to the internet). Thank you all for your feedback!

I am looking into laser cutting, but I'm concerned about charring and the smell left behind.

I am a total aspiring beginner. I am mostly curious if this is possible, and since I don't yet have equipment, if there are resources I could use to have it done.

My realistic hope would be to sell a thousand units or so, and it's sounding like it may not justify the expense of making a die.

But if there are any more good ideas as how to cut these pieces of leather and punch all the thread holes in one fell swoop, I greatly appreciate them!


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