# End mills



## redvan22 (Sep 25, 2019)

I need some center cutting end mills now that my machine is getting in shape finally.  

Looked around at LittleMachineShop.com and there are too many types; TICN, TCN, cobalt, insert, 2 flute, 4 flute....

I have a set of cheap-o 2 flute end mills that are the same diameter as the cutting diameter that are duller than clay that I've used for everything from aluminum ans brass to CRS since I got my mini mill.

Can someone shed light on this fascinating subject sparing me time, money and frustration on trial and error?

Mike.


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## mmcmdl (Sep 25, 2019)

Buy American .


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## mmcmdl (Sep 25, 2019)

Here is a cheap set ! 









						Some people really think they struck gold.....
					

This is one of the funniest ebay listings I've seen in a long time.....  https://www.ebay.com/itm/HUGE-544-Piece-Industrial-Wholesale-Lot-Machinist-CNC-Lathe-Bits-Various-Sizes/223572166118?hash=item340df085e6%3Ag%3A05sAAOSw2EZdGg4T&LH_ItemCondition=4&autorefresh=true




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




Just kidding ya . Depending on what you're cutting , you'll use different grades of EMs . Easiest way to learn is to thumb thru the MSC or Grainger catalog , they explain the differences between the cutters .


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## projectnut (Sep 25, 2019)

See if you can find an old Enco catalog.  They had a primer at the beginning of each tool section ( end mills, drill bits, lathe tooling etc.) describing the different coatings and when they should be used, as well as the different styles of end mills, drills, and lathe tools available, and when they should be used.  There are a few for sale on eBay, but the prices seem a bit high for a catalog that was given away with almost each order.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Enco-MACH-...635177?hash=item3b0be51da9:g:4DUAAOSwkAxcUlR~ 

They might also be available in the archives at your local library


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## JimDawson (Sep 25, 2019)

A good starting point is the Chinese 20 piece endmill set https://www.harborfreight.com/20-piece-titanium-nitrade-coated-end-mill-set-5947.html  Available from Harbor Freight, Amazon, EBay.  I have a few of these sets for utility use, especially used when I know I'm going to destroy one, all purchased with a 20 or 25% coupon from HF.

Then keep an eye on Craigslist and Ebay for deals on quantities.  Everytime I find good deals I just go buy them.  You can't have too many around.

Buy new end mills as needed for a specific job.  If you do buy for a job, buy at least 2, that is the best way to keep from breaking one. 

In general, 2 or 3 flute for aluminum, 4 or more flute for steel, except 2 flute for cutting keyways.  Coated or uncoated is not important in the home shop.  Solid carbide is good for harder materials and/or high speed machining, but require rigid setups and a stable machine.


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## tech610 (Sep 25, 2019)

I buy from this NYC vendor https://www.victornet.com/departments/HS-End-Mills/110.html
He has good prices and his cutting tools are good. Maybe you can save on shipping just by going there and picking up the goods yourself. I'm in NJ and I get my order the next day UPS. Never had any problems with them. They don't have the MSC selection but they have more than enough things that will keep me going.


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## redvan22 (Sep 25, 2019)

JimDawson said:


> Coated or uncoated is not important in the home shop.  Solid carbide is good for harder materials and/or high speed machining, but require rigid setups and a stable machine.


That's the answer I was looking for. My machine is getting better and better thanks to everyone's help but it's not 100% yet so I was unsure about the coatings and such. 

Thanks.


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## Hawkeye (Sep 25, 2019)

If you can learn on the cheap ones, it will teach you skills that will make the good quality endmills stand up and sing when you get some. My best ones mostly came as 'by the way' purchases when I was picking up some piece of equipment from an ad. "By the way, could you use some these? $40 for the box."

I killed a lot of HSS and carbide endmills before I learned about proper cutting speeds. Other factors improve things, but that was number one.


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## redvan22 (Sep 26, 2019)

JimDawson,
HF set on the way...

Thanks, 
Mike


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## WalterC (Sep 30, 2019)

I have carbides with coatings and no coatings- high dollar and medium cost. 
 But to save these expensive ones for certain work, I use the HF ones most of time. They actually do 80% of my projects and hold up well.


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## pontiac428 (Sep 30, 2019)

The golden end mills from China are that color because they are made out of sun-softened butter.  US brand end mill lots can be had for a good price if you watch, a better alternative to cheap end mills that come in sets.


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## Cheeseking (Sep 30, 2019)

Agreed. The gold chinesium sets in wood boxes are worthless. literally. Even for hobbyists. Ruining parts with cheese mills stinks.
Save time money and aggravation buy one or two nice carbide cutters. Once you use a good cutter you’ll never go back. Seriously a nice 4 flute 3/8” x 1”LOC carbide EM is roughly $25-30. It will outlast the Chineseiums 10x over. 
I recommend the type with a small radius .010-.030 on the end it helps prevent chipping out the tips.


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## redvan22 (Apr 18, 2020)

I'm back with questions,
I went to eBay and searched for end mills. 
Wow, what a selection... 
However, a "8pcs Micrograin Carbide Slot Drill Solid Carbide End Mill 4 Flute TiAlN Coated 1/16-1/2" caught my eye for $12.58 
Come on, really? $12.58! Let me take a guess, its $200 in shipping costs and will take a month to get to me, right? 
That's less than one EM at victornet.com This has to be fake.
Is tooling on eBay really this cheap and is it any good?

Mike.


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## higgite (Apr 18, 2020)

You can get good stuff off Ebay if you’re patient and know what to look for. That said, I wouldn’t touch this one with a 10 foot pole. Although the ad says it ships from Cailifornia, the seller is in Singapore and estimated delivery is 2-1/2 weeks (from California? ) Seller also has a very poor feedback percentage, especially in the last 6 months.

If you want some more good end mill recommendations, search the forum for end mill posts by Mikey, among others.

Tom


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## Aaron_W (Apr 18, 2020)

redvan22 said:


> I'm back with questions,
> I went to eBay and searched for end mills.
> Wow, what a selection...
> However, a "8pcs Micrograin Carbide Slot Drill Solid Carbide End Mill 4 Flute TiAlN Coated 1/16-1/2" caught my eye for $12.58
> ...




One big takeaway that I have made over the couple of years here is good endmills are not cheap, often costing more for one than a whole set of import end mills. However most of use don't really need a whole set, just a couple of select sizes, maybe even just one roughing and one finishing end mill of the most useful size.

I have a couple sets of cheap plain HSS endmills, 2 flute, 4 flute, and ball end which have worked for me. I've probably used the 3/8" 2 flute and 4 flute, on about 90% of my milling so that is what I've started shopping for in higher quality. At $20-30 each for respectable brands buying 2-4 endmills isn't too bad and I still have my cheap ones to cover for the unusual shapes / sizes.


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## BGHansen (Apr 18, 2020)

For under $13 they'd be worth a shot. I have some 30 year old end mills from Enco that were from Yugoslavia. They were cheap and cut great. Most of my end mills are Niagra, US made. Very happy with them. In general,  quality costs money. 

Bruce


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## Liljoebrshooter (Apr 19, 2020)

is that really the size of them?   1/16"×1/2"?  Those are tiny end mills.   Buy a couple or a few 1/4" and 3/8" diameter name brand HSS and one of those in carbide.  
Joe


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## Liljoebrshooter (Apr 19, 2020)

I have bought from this place before.


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## mikey (Apr 19, 2020)

redvan22 said:


> I'm back with questions,
> I went to eBay and searched for end mills.
> Wow, what a selection...



Mike, discussing end mills is a huge can of worms. We need to know mill type, type of chuck, work material, etc. before we can advise you. The more info you provide, the more specific we can be BUT, just in general, I have some thoughts:

Try to buy on eBay and always buy new end mills. Used ones are always suspect. Why pay for worn edges that won't cut?
Most of us can get by with 1/8", 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" roughing and finishing end mills in both 2 and 4 flutes. Quite often, you can buy sizes just a little under these sizes for really good prices; use these for most of your cutting and save your on-size end mills for when you really need an on-size slot.
Buy good brands. Niagara Cutter, OSG, Titex, Guhring are always good. Many others also. In my opinion, it doesn't pay to buy Chinese brands or sets. They won't cut as well as a good one nor last as long, and won't teach you nearly as well.
Roughing is a big deal. Always try to bandsaw off as much as you can before you start milling. Then use roughing end mills before using a finishing end mill. A roughing end mill will cut 20% faster (feeds) and 20% deeper than a finisher will, and will last 3 times longer than a finisher (maybe much more). For slots and pockets, use a coarse pitch rougher; for edge/profile work, use fine pitch roughers. Similarly, for slots and pockets use fewer teeth and more teeth for edge work.
When you can, buy center cutting end mills so you can plunge cut. Non-center cutting end mills will plunge but you have to drill a hole in the middle before using them.
Try to buy radiused cornered end mills if the work piece allows. They last longer.
For aluminum, high helix 3-flute end mills work better than others for both slotting and edge work.
Carbide is great but are more fragile. Most hobby work does not require them unless you have to go deep or do a tall edge or mill something hard. Use cobalt for most of your end mills and they will last for a very long time.
Do learn about speeds, feeds and depths of cut. Understand what axial and radial depths of cut mean.
Learn how to feed manually before trying power feed. So much is learned by using your senses - hearing, feel.
Use a good milling vise and use the most rigid method you have for holding your end mills.
Try to keep the flute length of your end mill close to your needs. These things flex a LOT so the shorter the end mill, the more rigid it will be.
Off the top of my head, that's a general overview. If you can be more specific as to your needs, we can help more.


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## redvan22 (Apr 27, 2020)

Excellent Mikey, thank you. 
Another member in this thread told me to look for your posts on the subject.


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## projectnut (Apr 27, 2020)

There appear to be some posts missing from this thread.  I made a post several days ago referring to some mills I purchased from Enco, and suggesting sticking with name brand mills.  It seems to be missing along with a few others.  Post between April 16th and today are missing.  Also missing are alerts between April 6th and April 26th


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## macardoso (Apr 27, 2020)

I could add a whole chapter on this, but I agree with everyone else here. I have a lot of carbide that has fallen in my lap. They are great but not absolutely necessary. HSS tends to be sharper on average, although sharp carbide endmills do exist if you know what you are looking for (see link below).

Tool holding rigidity is a huge deal. Use the shortest length flute you can for the cut you want to take, and stick the endmill out the least you can without your spindle hitting the work, even if it is harder to see what you are doing.

I have found that a lot of my "all-purpose" endmills don't do very well in aluminum and can raise a burr. These are my favorite for aluminum, brass, copper, plastic, etc. Don't try them on steel, they won't last long.









						1/4" YG1 Alu-Power 3 Flute Regular Length Carbide End Mill for Aluminum 635963995300 | eBay
					

3 flute and 45-degree helix allow harmonic balance at high speed condition and smooth cutting. Mirror face excellent surface finish & superior chip evacuation. High velocity milling of Aluminum and other non-ferrous materials.



					www.ebay.com
				




Steel, stainless, and cast iron typically don't have issues with chip packing in the flutes so more flutes is better. Softer materials will have issues so 2-3 flutes is ideal.

I am happy to buy any import lathe tool, however rotating milling cutters require more care in manufacturing than fixed tooling. I've found the cheap endmills to not be as reliable as domestic tooling.

Don't spend a ton of money to start. You will crash and break cutters much faster than wearing them out. Better to do it with the cheap stuff at first.

Buy good quality collets or tool holders. The concentricity (runout) makes a huge deal when working with cutters under 1/4".


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## redvan22 (May 5, 2020)

projectnut said:


> There appear to be some posts missing from this thread.  I made a post several days ago referring to some mills I purchased from Enco, and suggesting sticking with name brand mills.  It seems to be missing along with a few others.  Post between April 16th and today are missing.  Also missing are alerts between April 6th and April 26th


Yes, I recall seeing them but they seem to be gone. I can't delete so I wonder what happened.


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