# PM Available for Back Order on all lathes I looked at..!



## Mr Mike (Aug 13, 2020)

While waiting for a good deal to show up for old iron I figured I would look at a new higher Quality Lathe, like the Ultra Precision one Pm sells.. well turns out no matter what lathe I look at on the site they all show available for back order... The Cheap or Expensive ones.

Old or New, finding a decent lathe is out of my reach, I just cant win..  I may have to break down and just get a cheap SF1049  9 X 19 to tide me over till something shows up.


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## Aukai (Aug 13, 2020)

Are you watch for the ads posted daily here Craigslist, Ebay. Not sure what your looking for, but...








						Enco III 3100 Lathe - $3000 (morgan hill, CA)
					

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/d/morgan-hill-enco-iii-3100-lathe/7175198310.html




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## Mr Mike (Aug 13, 2020)

Aukai said:


> Are you watch for the ads posted daily here Craigslist, Ebay. Not sure what your looking for, but...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes every day, checking morning and night... within 350 miles of Vegas... CL, Offer-Up and Ebay for Old SB or LL's
Due to shop space a max size of 12 X 30 is what Im looking for... it will share shop space with welding and wood working tools in a 20 X 24 shop so not a huge amount of free space.


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## mikey (Aug 13, 2020)

You aren't that far from California. Seems to be a lot of lathes for sale there - worth a drive?


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## Aukai (Aug 13, 2020)

I know the squeeze all too well. Mikey just beat me to California while I was typing.


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## Dudemanrod (Aug 13, 2020)

I think Los Angeles area is your best bet. I have seen  a pretty good selection on there at times. Patience is what you need and I have been working on it my whole life and I'm better but I still get impatient and I pay every time lol . You will prevail !


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## Tozguy (Aug 13, 2020)

My 12x36 lathe was bought new on back order several years ago. It took six months to get it. It was ordered in January, made in May (China) and delivered to me in June (Canada). Back then it had seemed like it would take me longer than 6 months to find what I wanted on the used market. So I ordered exactly what I wanted and then waited. During the six months wait I planned and prepped the shop to receive the lathe. It was hard to wait but it panned out very well in the long run.


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## wrmiller (Aug 13, 2020)

The one lathe I saw available on Matt's site is the one I would upgrade to if I could. The 1440TL. Way out of my reach (financial) though. Good luck in your lathe search.


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## ub27Rocks (Aug 13, 2020)

One short phone call to PM will tell you the wait time. If you don't order, it won't arrive.


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## wrmiller (Aug 13, 2020)

ub27Rocks said:


> One short phone call to PM will tell you the wait time. If you don't order, it won't arrive.



This is true. IIRC, I waited over 4 months for my 1340GT.


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## BigWalt (Aug 13, 2020)

I would call PM, when I went to order a lathe they had already placed stock order with few extra on it, mine arrived about 6.5 weeks later
they always have something on order they are trying to keep up with demand.  So it pays to call them and not just watching the website.


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## matthewsx (Aug 13, 2020)

Just a thought here but if you’re limiting your search because of size you may want to reconsider. What I’ve found is that a lathe is such an essential tool for the shop it’s worth moving things around to make a larger one fit.

john


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## Aukai (Aug 13, 2020)

LION 12" X 32" ENGINE LATHE MODEL C8M  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for LION 12" X 32" ENGINE LATHE MODEL C8M at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				



Here's some heavy metal, just add truck freight to the negotiations, it's a little low on RPM.








						14" / 16.5" x 30" MONARCH Model C Engine Lathe - clearance price  | eBay
					

Find great deals for 14" / 16.5" x 30" MONARCH Model C Engine Lathe - clearance price . Shop with confidence on eBay!



					www.ebay.com


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## Janderso (Aug 13, 2020)

Boy that Monarch seems like a good deal.


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## Mr Mike (Aug 13, 2020)

wrmiller said:


> The one lathe I saw available on Matt's site is the one I would upgrade to if I could. The 1440TL. Way out of my reach (financial) though. Good luck in your lathe search.



Lol I was considering the ultra just not that ultra... The *PM-1236T 12″X36″ ULTRA PRECISION LATHE for 4600.00 *Just a bit bigger than I would like.
I have a hard cap of 6k for a machine leaving wiggle room for accessories.


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## Mr Mike (Aug 13, 2020)

Aukai said:


> LION 12" X 32" ENGINE LATHE MODEL C8M  | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for LION 12" X 32" ENGINE LATHE MODEL C8M at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> ...



My first real lathe that I picked up in California was a Logan 1875... I was restoring it to literal perfection and almost had it completed, But i had to move and donated the lathe because I was unsure how long it would take to get a new house.

I dont consider my self a beginner at this craft, was just starting out on the Logan to restore and learn on, I found a trash logan for 750 but its missing parts and stored out doors in cali. im currently looking at atlas clausing in AZ it runs and there asking 1k but it would be a full restore..

Im not trying to restrict my self too much but would like to keep it under 36X10,11,12 for now.


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## kb58 (Aug 13, 2020)

I suspect that the problem isn't so much the swing or bed length, but the overall space that the machine has to fit into, correct? If so, don't box yourself into only looking at small lathes. I had a Grizzly 12x36 and replaced it with a Takisawa 14 x 31 that fit in the same floor space, and in addition, some lathes have huge head stocks while others are shorter.


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## Mr Mike (Aug 13, 2020)

kb58 said:


> I suspect that the problem isn't so much the swing or bed length, but the overall space that the machine has to fit into, correct? If so, don't box yourself into only looking at small lathes. I had a Grizzly 12x36 and replaced it with a Takisawa 14 x 31 that fit in the same floor space, and in addition, some lathes have huge head stocks while others are shorter.



60" X 30" nothing set in stone... most of my problem i think is a patience issue, if im not looking for it there are tones available,  last time it took a couple months before I found the Logan 1875, then 5 months of restore work, never completed or got to use it..

So after all this time instead of being patient all over again I was just thinking lets just get a new one... I hear good things about PM so I go look... And to my surprise nope there all on back order, so i was kinda let down being excited to just go get one lol.

I think ill just buy a new cheap lathe to keep me busy while hunting for one. I dont mind traveling to get a lathe a few hrs away but it should be something i think will be usable and not total trash to start with. Ill make it work somehow...

thanks for your thought thou.


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## erikmannie (Aug 14, 2020)

I bought two new lathes from PM. Both were backordered several months. I enjoy the “anticipation” time! I am still in the wait time for the second lathe.

The ETA was spot on the first time.


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## Aaron_W (Aug 14, 2020)

Mr Mike said:


> 60" X 30" nothing set in stone... most of my problem i think is a patience issue, if im not looking for it there are tones available,  last time it took a couple months before I found the Logan 1875, then 5 months of restore work, never completed or got to use it..
> 
> So after all this time instead of being patient all over again I was just thinking lets just get a new one... I hear good things about PM so I go look... And to my surprise nope there all on back order, so i was kinda let down being excited to just go get one lol.
> 
> ...



I picked up an Enco 9x20" cheap a few months ago. Basically the same lathe as the Grizzly G4000. Even compared to a Logan or Southbend 10x24 with a QCGB it leaves something to be desired but it isn't a bad little lathe. If that helps you hold out for what you really want it could be money well spent.


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## Mr Mike (Aug 14, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> I picked up an Enco 9x20" cheap a few months ago. Basically the same lathe as the Grizzly G4000. Even compared to a Logan or Southbend 10x24 with a QCGB it leaves something to be desired but it isn't a bad little lathe. If that helps you hold out for what you really want it could be money well spent.



Lol that is funny... I had the Harbor Freight version of that lathe 2 years ago.. Id be thrilled to find an ENCO version of that.

Im currently looking and making an offer on an ENCO 13X40 from 1991 in Arizona. there are a bunch of 1340s out around here but most are really really used looking,. and one for 2k with crap tones on tooling would be great but look like its seen better days.

One i'm trying to get the guy to sell me from CL for 2500.00 is sweet looking and well taken care of, but hes asking 1200.00 more than im offering so I'm guessing he will pass on my offer.

Ill keep an Eye out for the 9X20 Enco while im looking, ill buy yours cheap if you wana sell it and its in decent condition, I have seen a bunch of modding thread for the 9X20s so i wouldnt mind having a nice one like that... The Harbor Freight one i got for 300 buck was a janky lathe but still worked, tool post was a weak link on that lathe, im sure the other brands are too.

Hey thanks for bringing up the ENCO version of that lathe.. ill look for one, good thinking... I wonder if the Enco, Jet, Griz brands are any different or better Quality than the HF version?


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## Aaron_W (Aug 14, 2020)

Mr Mike said:


> *I have seen a bunch of modding thread for the 9X20s so i wouldnt mind having a nice one like that... *The Harbor Freight one i got for 300 buck was a janky lathe but still worked, tool post was a weak link on that lathe, im sure the other brands are too.
> 
> Hey thanks for bringing up the ENCO version of that lathe.. ill look for one, good thinking... I wonder if the Enco, Jet, Griz brands are any different or better Quality than the HF version?



That is exactly why I got mine. I have an 11x24" Powermatic Logan so the Enco doesn't do anything that my other lathe won't do except cut metric threads. It was only 1/2 hour away, cheap and I thought it would be fun to tinker with and make some of the popular mods to it. If I get bored doing that I can easily get back out of it what I paid for it. Not bored with it yet. 

I've not actually looked at a Grizzly G4000, but I have ordered parts for mine from Grizzly and they all fit. I have looked at a Jet, basic fit and finish is better (Taiwan made vs China) but the main difference is a 1 1/2"-8 spindle rather than metric (39mm something). They are all based on the Emco Compact 8. The compound is a weak point on all of them, a lot of people make a solid base (I think they call it a plinth) for the tool post and only mount the compound when they actually need it.


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## kb58 (Aug 14, 2020)

Mr Mike said:


> ... One i'm trying to get the guy to sell me from CL for 2500.00 is sweet looking and well taken care of, but hes asking 1200.00 more than im offering so I'm guessing he will pass on my offer.


No necessarily. You need to approach such a seller very business-like, look it over and say "I'll give you $$$$ to take it of your hands right now, here's my number" and immediately leave. You do not contact him and keep looking. You're using human nature where he now knows that it would be gone already if he'd just accept a bit less, and it'll eat at him. The trick is _not _calling to check if it's still available.


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## wrmiller (Aug 14, 2020)

kb58 said:


> No necessarily. You need to approach such a seller very business-like, look it over and say "I'll give you $$$$ to take it of your hands right now, here's my number" and immediately leave. You do not contact him and keep looking. You're using human nature where he now knows that it would be gone already if he'd just accept a bit less, and it'll eat at him. The trick is _not _calling to check if it's still available.



Had a guy try this crap with me regarding my tractor. About a month after I sold it, I get a call from him wanting to know if I still had it (tractor). I told him that I wrote him off the moment he walked out the door and that I had sold it a couple of weeks earlier. I don't play games well.


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## Mr Mike (Aug 14, 2020)

kb58 said:


> No necessarily. You need to approach such a seller very business-like, look it over and say "I'll give you $$$$ to take it of your hands right now, here's my number" and immediately leave. You do not contact him and keep looking. You're using human nature where he now knows that it would be gone already if he'd just accept a bit less, and it'll eat at him. The trick is _not _calling to check if it's still available.





wrmiller said:


> Had a guy try this crap with me regarding my tractor. About a month after I sold it, I get a call from him wanting to know if I still had it (tractor). I told him that I wrote him off the moment he walked out the door and that I had sold it a couple of weeks earlier. I don't play games well.



I took a different approach, Just told him the truth, and that his lathe would go to a good home, and be well taken care of....

I either get it or i don't, plenty of other lathes out there.


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## kb58 (Aug 14, 2020)

wrmiller said:


> Had a guy try this crap with me regarding my tractor. About a month after I sold it, I get a call from him wanting to know if I still had it (tractor). I told him that I wrote him off the moment he walked out the door and that I had sold it a couple of weeks earlier. I don't play games well.


His mistake is calling back - he's effectively saying that he really wants it, which is tipping his cards, telling you that he'll pay more than otherwise. Monopolize on that by not lowering your price as much as you would have otherwise. "Game" or not, it's dealing shrewdly.


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## kb58 (Aug 14, 2020)

Mr Mike said:


> I took a different approach, Just told him the truth, and that his lathe would go to a good home, and be well taken care of.... *I either get it or i don't,* plenty of other lathes out there.


It sounds like you left him your number - good, now let him think about it while you go on your way looking for better deals, and he's well aware that he's losing a potential buyer.

For what it's worth, it's the same way I approach eBay auctions. I decide what I think it's worth, set a limit, and don't look at it again. This avoids getting sucked into emotional bidding and paying more than intended. As an aside, it's kind of funny to consider that when you win a bid, it means that no one else on Earth (in the case of eBay) thinks that it's worth as much as you do!


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## matthewsx (Aug 14, 2020)

So you've had the rebuild experience and don't need to go through it again.

My thing about buying or selling is if negotiations are to happen it’s with Benjamin’s in hand. To many people want to find your bottom dollar in an email. If you’re really far apart this won’t likely work but if it’s a few hundred show up with cash and the means to move it. And be willing to walk away if the price doesn’t come down to where you’re comfortable.

John


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## kb58 (Aug 14, 2020)

Oh yeah, that's always a hot button for me. My ad says $$$ firm, and I get an email "what's the lowest you'll go." I always want to wish them well on their reading comprehension course.


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## Mr Mike (Aug 14, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> That is exactly why I got mine. I have an 11x24" Powermatic Logan so the Enco doesn't do anything that my other lathe won't do except cut metric threads. It was only 1/2 hour away, cheap and I thought it would be fun to tinker with and make some of the popular mods to it. If I get bored doing that I can easily get back out of it what I paid for it. Not bored with it yet.
> 
> I've not actually looked at a Grizzly G4000, but I have ordered parts for mine from Grizzly and they all fit. I have looked at a Jet, basic fit and finish is better (Taiwan made vs China) but the main difference is a 1 1/2"-8 spindle rather than metric (39mm something). They are all based on the Emco Compact 8. The compound is a weak point on all of them, a lot of people make a solid base (I think they call it a plinth) for the tool post and only mount the compound when they actually need it.



I got my first Logan lathe 2 years ago 10X24 model 1875, And did a couple hundred hour restoration job on it ( learned as I went ) posted a thread about it on here with every detail covered to about 90 completion but had to give it away due to life complications, every questionable parts replaced, Oiless bearings, new Spindal bearings. it was like brand new as you could get.. Im so stupid for letting it go.

I'm sure there will be a special place in lathe hell for me down the road.


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## Mr Mike (Aug 14, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> So you've had the rebuild experience and don't need to go through it again.
> 
> My thing about buying or selling is if negotiations are to happen it’s with Benjamin’s in hand. To many people want to find your bottom dollar in an email. If you’re really far apart this won’t likely work but if it’s a few hundred show up with cash and the means to move it. And be willing to walk away if the price doesn’t come down to where you’re comfortable.
> 
> John



Yes i had a complete rebuild experience and loved every minute of it... I use that new gained knowledge to my benefit now.
Here is the thread --> First Logan Lathe

The lathe is 6 hours away so its not practical to show up with cash in hand hoping they accept what Im willing to pay, and have to just turn around and drive back if they dont...


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## Mr Mike (Aug 14, 2020)

kb58 said:


> It sounds like you left him your number - good, now let him think about it while you go on your way looking for better deals, and he's well aware that he's losing a potential buyer.
> 
> For what it's worth, it's the same way I approach eBay auctions. I decide what I think it's worth, set a limit, and don't look at it again. This avoids getting sucked into emotional bidding and paying more than intended. As an aside, it's kind of funny to consider that when you win a bid, it means that no one else on Earth (in the case of eBay) thinks that it's worth as much as you do!



Sage advice.


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## kb58 (Aug 14, 2020)

And that's another dealing detail, never answer about how far you drove. If you do, they know you're more likely to buy for that very reason. Car dealers pull that BS all the time like they're your new best friend, but its all about estimating your money potential. Insincerity really bugs me.


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## Mr Mike (Aug 14, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> So you've had the rebuild experience and don't need to go through it again.
> 
> My thing about buying or selling is if negotiations are to happen it’s with Benjamin’s in hand. To many people want to find your bottom dollar in an email. If you’re really far apart this won’t likely work but if it’s a few hundred show up with cash and the means to move it. And be willing to walk away if the price doesn’t come down to where you’re comfortable.
> 
> John



I agree but its to far away to just take the risk of driving home empty handed.


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## Mr Mike (Aug 14, 2020)

kb58 said:


> And that's another dealing detail, never answer about how far you drove. If you do, they know you're more likely to buy for that very reason. Car dealers pull that BS all the time like they're your new best friend, but its all about estimating your money potential. Insincerity really bugs me.



lol they will soon know where i'm from when I show up with plates from another state... but on the plus side I look poor which is a bonus.


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## Mr Mike (Aug 15, 2020)

kb58 said:


> Oh yeah, that's always a hot button for me. My ad says $$$ firm, and I get an email "what's the lowest you'll go." I always want to wish them well on their reading comprehension course.



Here is the lathe Im looking at on CL 13" X 40" Enco for 2500.00 Offer  I spoke to the person on the phone, we talked a while and he said he would think about my offer and said if he removes the collet bar from the sale he said he would consider the deal and get back to me. He made it sound like he would take 3k and was trying to work with me, I held out for the 2500.00 cause he stated he had a guy that asked him to hold it for a month, but might just consider my offer .

I did a bunch of research on the lathe, its a Gearhead used for Gunsmithing and weighs in at just over 1000 Lbs, Model 110-1351 and is not the american version made here in the us.

Watched an informative YT video review for the exact lathe which said depending on condition will go between 2k to 3k, so i am in the ball park.

If he accepts the Problem will be getting it home, Our shop truck has a Tommy lift that is rated to 800 Lbs..

So I have a dilemma, I dont like the idea of a tool being removed that is hard to replace, and how on earth will I move this thing.
Think I am biting off more than I can chew here with this one.

Ill keep looking over the weekend, may get lucky thou with a call back and it looks like a decent lathe.


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## mikey (Aug 15, 2020)

I would tell him to keep the collet closer and sell it for an additional profit and then sell you the lathe for $2500. The good thing is that it comes with a complete (I assume) change gear set, without which the lathe is incomplete. If it is indeed low mileage and it otherwise looks to be in good shape then it looks like a good deal.


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## Mr Mike (Aug 15, 2020)

mikey said:


> I would tell him to keep the collet closer and sell it for an additional profit and then sell you the lathe for $2500. The good thing is that it comes with a complete (I assume) change gear set, without which the lathe is incomplete. If it is indeed low mileage and it otherwise looks to be in good shape then it looks like a good deal.



Hi Mikey.. lol you know you were the person that got me started on electrolysis for rust removal on my Logan 1875 restoration thread from a couple years ago. I learned so much about the restoration process doing it and it was so much fun... Thank you for your support man.

So what do you think Sir.... Should I stop being impatient and try and find, restore another old iron lathe or because this 13X40 is a one owner well taken care of and more modern lathe ( bit finiky changing gears per my research ) It would still make for a fine tool, the new version of this lathe is about $8000.00. My understanding from all the reviews is this Enco 13 X 40 would make a great hobby or low end shop lathe.

It does come with the original gear set & manuals, I think he would let the whole thing go for 3K including the collet closer or 2500.00 without it. The lathe is quite the monster at 1014 Lbs un-crated compared to my Logan that was 750 Lbs.

I wasn't looking for this size lathe, I was trying to keep to 10 X 24 to 12 X 36. My thinking on this was any good condition smaller lathe will cost me about the same with the bigger lathe being more capable... Or am I all wet and visibly dripping..?

If you have a moment take a look at the CL add please ----> Here is the link to it.

Gained new knowledge so pleas ignore above. Thanks Mikey..


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## Mr Mike (Aug 15, 2020)

Janderso said:


> Boy that Monarch seems like a good deal.



I find there are lots of really great deals in very large size lathes, probably due to less interest/call for them in small shops.


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## Aaron_W (Aug 15, 2020)

Mr Mike said:


> Hi Mikey.. lol you know you were the person that got me started on electrolysis for rust removal on my Logan 1875 restoration thread from a couple years ago. I learned so much about the restoration process doing it and it was so much fun... Thank you for your support man.
> 
> So what do you think Sir.... Should I stop being impatient and try and find, restore another old iron lathe or because this 13X40 is a one owner well taken care of and more modern lathe ( bit finiky changing gears per my research ) It would still make for a fine tool, the new version of this lathe is about $8000.00. My understanding from all the reviews is this Enco 13 X 40 would make a great hobby or low end shop lathe.
> 
> ...



I don't know that lathe in particular but if you have the room, and if it is in as nice of shape as it seems to be I don't think I would be worried over $500 on a lathe in that price range. Finding a collet closer later might cost you that much or more since you can't just order one up.

You will probably spend $500 just on gas getting up there and back.


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## Mr Mike (Aug 16, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> I don't know that lathe in particular but if you have the room, and if it is in as nice of shape as it seems to be I don't think I would be worried over $500 on a lathe in that price range. Finding a collet closer later might cost you that much or more since you can't just order one up.
> 
> You will probably spend $500 just on gas getting up there and back.



Oh my these lathes are funny... Just found a 14X40 similar to the 13X40 and he wants $2500.00 including collet closer, then I looked at grizzly and their 12X36 Model G4003 looks to be just a scaled down version... So really there are 10 lathes in the world and 100 versions of it... Lol I thought the lathe copy thing was restricted to the small lathe world... Boy am I wrong !

The funny thing is I should have known better, we have a similar issue in the woodworking world. I don't know why I thought it would be different over here, there is always more magic and voodoo when I know little about a subject it seems. So Im going to step back a couple steps and reassess the whole lathe thing, at this point 

Now that my light bulb finally lite up. I will treat buying a used lathe no different then a used jointer.  now I just need to quickly figure out the good from the bad in the lathe department. I can look at a used cabinet saw and tell you if its a good buy or not... not so with lathes yet. but ill get there soon.

Thanks everyone for putting up with me threw these teething times...


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## Mr Mike (Aug 16, 2020)

So instead of searching for a named Lathe, the last couple days... I have just been searching using the word "lathe" only. I've been mulling lathe size over and although I have found some really good deals on some larger old iron lathes, I'm going to keep to my original plan and only consider sizes from 10 X 24 thru 12 X 36 for now.

While I am in complete agreement that not all Chinese lathes are created equal, whether due to short Cummings or just a price point issue... I am sure there are excellent ones out there.  I had a HF 9 X 20 and while it gets just terrible reviews, I still had fun using it and bought it for 300.00. The Logan 1875 I got for 850.00 was an amazing old lathe, I never got to use it but you could just tell from the robustness its night and day over the 9 X 20.

New Lathes while technically upgraded with brushless motors and fancy hardware such as DRO are just icing on the cake, so im not going to rule out older lathes in my search, but may in the end just buy a new lathe for the convenience if I cant find a nice used lathe in the next month or so., not in a huge  rush and being limited on knowledge ill still need you guys for expertise in my choices so thanks in advance for helping me out...


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## matthewsx (Aug 16, 2020)

This one should fit in a compact space.









						LeBlond Regal engine lathe, 15" X 30" - $4,950 (Scotts Valley, CA)
					

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/tls/d/scotts-valley-leblond-regal-engine/7177700322.html




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## Mr Mike (Aug 16, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> This one should fit in a compact space.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now thats a sexy lathe... wonder how they solved the carriage issue after re-grounding the Ways which are absolutely to die for.


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## Cheeseking (Aug 17, 2020)

Deleted.  Posted in wrong thread sorry


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## Mr Mike (Aug 21, 2020)

I checked all lathes at PM that I would consider buying new, even checked the ultra precision PM-1340GT 13 X 40 With no luck.. Kinda feel bad for them cause they are probably having issues getting their product in stock... 

No matter where you read they have a great following and spoke of highly.. I just dont have the patients to wait so Ill end this thread here..!


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