# 6 days to decide G4000 9x19 vs G0602 10x22 Both around $1500 delivered Recommendations?



## Tolerent (Apr 4, 2020)

Getting ready to pull the trigger on a first jump into machining. Looking at the mentioned lathes here https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-9-x-19-Bench-Lathe/G4000
Is the 10% sale anything unusual or a quarterly event?
Does the G0602 have as good a threading arrangement e.g. QCGB as the G4000?
Is the 1/2" max tooling of the G0602 vs the 3/8 max of the G4000 enough to offset gear change convenience?
What should I understand (about this decision)?


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## ttabbal (Apr 4, 2020)

For those size lathes, the difference between 1/2 and 3/8 tools is minimal. I own a PM1127, only slightly larger, and I use mostly 3/8 even though I own a number of 1/2 tools. 

I would find a 9" to be a bit limiting, but if your work will fit with the tools, go for it. Not having change gears is nice. I added an electronic leadscrew setup in part to get away from it. 

I've never used either of those machines, so I can't give you any specific advice on them. I hear people like Grizzly machines though.


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## Mitch Alsup (Apr 4, 2020)

Tolerent said:


> Getting ready to pull the trigger on a first jump into machining. Looking at the mentioned lathes here https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-9-x-19-Bench-Lathe/G4000
> Is the 10% sale anything unusual or a quarterly event?



It is a "bit" unusual--generally there is a Christmas sale. This is a sale designed to move 'stuff' during a pandemic and is atypical.
But keep in mind that many of these machines are 15%-20% higher than they were before Trump imposed tariffs on Chinese goods.



> Does the G0602 have as good a threading arrangement e.g. QCGB as the G4000?



With either machine, If you are planning (planning) to cut lots of threads of differing sizes, you will be changing <back> gears often. There is just not enough selection in the quick change transmission.
{The 11×26 is no different, here:: the 12×36 lathes and larger are different--for example I have not changed any back gear on my G4003G in the 2 years I have owned it while cutting all sorts of threads.}



> Is the 1/2" max tooling of the G0602 vs the 3/8 max of the G4000 enough to offset gear change convenience?



With the power of the motor(s), there is not much difference.



> What should I understand (about this decision)?



I hope you will be able to use and enjoy this lathe for a long time into the future.

When I made my choice 2.5 years ago I understood the limits to which I would EVER want to machine stuff on a lathe, and by studying this for several months, I came to the conclusion that nothing smaller than a 12×36 would fit my needs. My G4003G has, for me been an excellent investment and has become a good friend.

I suggest that you consider the kinds of things you will do this this lathe far into the future and make the right choice for your needs.
If I were to choose from the given lathes, I would go with the the G0602 over the G4000.
It seems to be "more lathe" at not much "more price".


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## Ulma Doctor (Apr 5, 2020)

go bigger whenever possible, an inch doesn't sound like much until you need it


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## Aaron_W (Apr 5, 2020)

The only thing you are giving up by going with the 10x22 is some mobility and space. It weighs 80lbs more (330 vs 250) but neither are really portable the way the 7x14 and smaller lathes are, so it isn't a huge difference. The 10x22 is 9" longer (46" vs 37") which could be an issue if space is really tight. 

There is a large community of 9x20 users. I don't know that anything like that exists specifically for the G0602. Also don't know if that really matters because there are not that many issues specific to any particular brand / model of lathe.



For gears the the G4000 has a 9 position lever, the G0602 has two, 3 position knobs so both have 9 speeds just differ in how they get there. You will be using change gears on both for the full range of threading and will need to move the belt on pulleys for the full range of speeds.

Both use a threaded spindle with a screw on clip to keep the chuck from backing off.

Both are 120v so no special electrical needs, but the G4000 can be run on a 15A circuit (9A), the G0602 should be run on a 20A circuit (14A). Really only an issue if you are in an old house as 20A is pretty standard.

Advantages to the G0602:
Bigger spindle bore 25mm vs 20mm
Forward and reverse (there are plans available to add reverse to the 9x20, but as it comes it has no reverse gear)
3/4" bigger swing (9.5" vs 8.75") and 2" more between centers
More power 1hp vs 3/4 hp
Heavier, more weight usually = more rigidity


The 9x20s are not bad small lathes, but since it is only $90 more, I'd go with the 10x22 unless the size / weight is an issue for your space. Either is a nice size for a second lathe if you later decide you need a larger lathe.


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## pdentrem (Apr 5, 2020)

https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1022v-pm-1030v/ is an option. But not for $1500!

Pierre


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## Downunder Bob (Apr 5, 2020)

My standard advice is always get the biggest you have room for and the best you can afford. So often people say I only want to make small stuff, but before they know it along comes that I would love to do job, but it won't fit.


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## RJSakowski (Apr 5, 2020)

I have worked with both, the G4000 at work and my own G0602.  My decision to buy the G0602 was based on my favorable experiences with the G4000 but I decided to go with the G0602 because of its greater capacity.  I do not regret my decision.  There are two features that the G4000 has that are not present on the 602, the relative ease of engaging the drive belt(s) and the separate drive mechanisms for threading and power feed.

The 602 is substantially heavier than the 4000 and, as I recall, has greater threading capability.the additional inch of swing and larger bore (the 602 spindle bore is about 27mm) are pluses for the 602.  Also the larger motor.

I have tricked out my 602. I added a QCTP, a more substantial compound clamp, now available as a kit from another source, 3 axis DRO, electronic lead screw, work stop for spindle, and a carriage stop. Most of this is documented elsewhere on this forum.  At this point, I am fairly satisfied with my machine.  Two major improvements would be to add a VFD and an auto release for the half nuts.


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## Tolerent (Apr 5, 2020)

pdentrem said:


> https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1022v-pm-1030v/ is an option. But not for $1500!
> 
> Pierre


Yeah those are $2,500 to $2,700 delivered and they are on backorder. They do look nice though.


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## Tolerent (Apr 5, 2020)

RJSakowski said:


> I have worked with both, the G4000 at work and my own G0602.  My decision to buy the G0602 was based on my favorable experiences with the G4000 but I decided to go with the G0602 because of its greater capacity.  I do not regret my decision.  There are two features that the G4000 has that are not present on the 602, the relative ease of engaging the drive belt(s) and the separate drive mechanisms for threading and power feed.
> 
> The 602 is substantially heavier than the 4000 and, as I recall, has greater threading capability.the additional inch of swing and larger bore (the 602 spindle bore is about 27mm) are pluses for the 602.  Also the larger motor.
> 
> I have tricked out my 602. I added a QCTP, a more substantial compound clamp, now available as a kit from another source, 3 axis DRO, electronic lead screw, work stop for spindle, and a carriage stop. Most of this is documented elsewhere on this forum.  At this point, I am fairly satisfied with my machine.  Two major improvements would be to add a VFD and an auto release for the half nuts.


The stops and talk of auto release make me think of crashes. Something I think I might be rather effective at initiating. If I were capable of getting distracted.


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## Dhal22 (Apr 5, 2020)

Tolerent said:


> Yeah those are $2,500 to $2,700 delivered and they are on backorder. They do look nice though.




I'm going to buy a PM someday,  it will be a long wait so my plans are too order early.


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## RJSakowski (Apr 5, 2020)

Tolerent said:


> The stops and talk of auto release make me think of crashes. Something I think I might be rather effective at initiating. If I were capable of getting distracted.


I use the stops for locating work or features when doing repetitive work, never as a hard stop.  The auto release should be capable repetitive releases to within a few thousandths, possibly better which is the primary reason for wanting it.  I have an means of accurately stopping feed now but because it disengages the lead screw drive, I lose my sync. so I can't use it for threading.


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## Bi11Hudson (Apr 6, 2020)

A lot of part numbers flying around, with little difference in specs. As much advances in details as anything. I use a G1550 (9X20) that is the great grand daddy of the G4000. The 1550 was made in Taiwan, the more recent 4000 is made in mainland China. I don't have a problem with the 3/4 inch spindle bore. When swing became an issue, an extra inch wasn't enough, I had to recommission a Craftsman 12X36, which also has a 3/4 bore. Nor is horsepower(motor size) a determining factor, both the 1550 and the Craftsman are 3/4HP. If you were doing commercial work you wouldn't be asking about this light a machine anyway.

The G0602, *to me*. is not that advanced of a machine. A G4000 is just as good, if not better. With the exception of size. An inch, big deal. .  . Either case, there is required a change gear change for "ranging", on my 1550 I used a larger gear to get smaller threads. I don't know if the 0602 has room to take that larger gear. But how often does someone need to thread 80 TPI? I've had to do it 2 or 3 times in the 25+ years I've had the 1550. The belt changes and gear changes look to be easier on the 4000. Look to be~~~

I _have_ made some changes to my 1550, http://www.hudsontelcom.com/9X20Gear.html, that _look_ to be more difficult for the 0602. But again, not the sort of thing that you would necessarily be doing. But nice to have that capability for the future, should the need arise. Plus the arrangment of the "half Norton" gear box versus the internal gears on the 0602. I personally like the half Norton box better, but that's just me. I can get into it and tinker around~~~

All in all, I haven't said a d&%$ thing that can help you make your decision. About all I've done is to plug my own web site, for what little that's worth. Were I spending the money today, I probably would opt for the 4000 simply because it looks like an "old school" lathe should look like. That would have to be the limit to my meandering.

Bill Hudson​


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## matthewsx (Apr 6, 2020)

One of our respected forum sponsors has post an opinion in another thread that might be of interest. 

I will also humbly suggest that price should not be the first, or even second criteria when it comes to selecting machine tools, like many other large purchases service after the sale is often the most important factors. Companies that choose to sponsor forums like this one, where their customers look for unbiased data, are clearly invested in this hobby and care enough about the end users of their products to maintain a presence in the community.  

Ultimately this is your choice. We will be here to help in whatever ways we can but you know what they say about opinions.... Me personally, I never make purchase decisions based on "sale" offerings and 10% is pretty much just the standard "good guy" discount that anyone can get just by asking. If you want my attention start at 25%.

I once went to Guitar Center to buy a new bass guitar, after playing a bunch I had made a choice and told the salesman I would take it. He said "great, I'll go in the back and get one for you". I politely explained that I would be purchasing the one I had just played because I was comfortable with how it was built and set-up. I wasn't purchasing one from the catalog, I was buying the one I knew would work for me. That's the thing about buying a used machine tool, it might have flaws but you can inspect it and know what they are before handing your money over.

One final consideration and I'm done. When ordering a product sight unseen you are counting on the supplier to provide a "good" example of what's listed in their catalog. Some suppliers might open the crates and inspect what they received from their OEM's, others might have really good relations with their own suppliers and trust that what they are selling will be up to standards, others might be most concerned with sales volume across a wide range of different products and count on enough sales that dissatisfied customers will be a small percentage overall. Like I said before, time is your best friend here. We all want to get going as soon as possible but buying the wrong thing, or selecting a supplier with poor support can cost you both time and money....

John


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## Tolerent (Apr 6, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> One of our respected forum sponsors has post an opinion in another thread that might be of interest.


Thanks, Do you have a link handy?


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## matthewsx (Apr 6, 2020)

Tolerent said:


> Thanks, Do you have a link handy?



I'd rather not share it but I did also reply to a thread asking for "serious advice". Sure you can find it with a little searching.

John


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## coherent (Apr 6, 2020)

I have a G0602 and am still happy with it for my needs. The only thing I wish it had was a reverse tumbler for right hand threading, but otherwise it's a good lathe for the money. To be honest I haven't really had the need to cut reverse threads yet anyway.  Luckily there are a lot of add on's mods found on various webs and forums for the G0602s including fairly simple reverse tumbler mods if you go that route.


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## RJSakowski (Apr 6, 2020)

The setup for thread cutting is easier on the 4000.  However, it only takes a few minutes for a thread cutting setup on the 602.  A bigger obstacle is switching from threading to feed.  While it takes just a few minutes for each switch, it can become obnoxious if you're running multiple parts and need to perform a turning operation as well as a threading operation.

I replaced the 4 way tool holders on both lathes.  I used the same AXA QCTP on both the 4000 and the 602.  The 4000 was limited to 3/8" tooling.  The 602 can use 1/2" tooling  with the right tool holder, namely a XL tool holder for 5/8" tools.  In truth, when using HSS tools, there isn't any advantage to using 1/2" bits.  There is more to grind away to make a useful tool and any rigidity improvement is lost on a small lathe like these.  The week link on both of these lathes is the compound clamp.  For HSS and brazed carbide tooling, I use 1/4" or 3/8".  For smaller work, I will use 1/8" bits.  

The compound setup is more versatile on the 4000 due to the use of tee slots rather than tapped holes.  You have 86% more cross slide travel and 60% more tailstock and compound travel in the 602.  The chuck locking mechanism is more robust on the 602 which is important if/when you are operating in reverse.


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## epanzella (Apr 11, 2020)

I originally wanted a 602 but following advice I got a G4003G. At first I felt funny buying such a large (to me) lathe while being such a green bean but I quickly grew into it. Get the biggest heaviest stiffest machine you can afford. As far as 3/8" vs 1/2"  tolling it won't make a difference if you can choke up on the tool to minimize stick out.  The heavier tooling will only matter if you have to stick it out further to get in deep somewhere.  That said all the machines mentioned in this thread will make fine parts but the smaller ones will make them a bit slower. Good luck.


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## stioc (Apr 12, 2020)

Really like my G4000. 1/2" tooling is probably too much for a 10x anyway but 3/8" tooling hasn't been an issue at all. Threading, so after learning to single point threading I now rarely do it unless I don't have the right tap/die or if the size is odd. Tap/dies are quicker when threading is a small part of a project. Diameter hasn't been an issue but yeah you won't be turning brake rotors on it but even a 12x or a 13x won't be enough for later model rotors.

For a hobby lathe it's been a good lathe for the price. But I wish I had a G4003G or ideally a PM1340GT for the robustness/size/rigity of the toolpost etc.


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