# New Member From Langley Bc Ready To Start Lathe & Mill Shopping



## Kiwi Canuck

I found this forum by following Mike from ZMotorsports on another forum.
He has a very nice review of both of his PM machines and I have been looking to get into outfitting my shop/garage with a few machines, so here I am.

I am a bit overwhelmed with all the options available but I believe I will purchase PM machines as that's the brand I always seem to go back to after looking at others.
I visited the Grizzly store in Bellingham and eliminated a lot of the smaller machines as options including the 3 in 1's as that was what I thought I originally wanted.

As a starting point I want to be able to produce jigs and specialized parts for my locksmith business, we do a lot of large repetitive tasks and I'd like to make our own templates and jigs,  from 1/4" Lexan to 1/2" thick alum. The tech's go through them quickly as they get nicked with a router or worn out from use and they are almost useless after that.
The cost to repair them is about 1/2 the price or more of buying new, but never quite the same as the anodizing is all messed up so they look "repaired" and no one wants to use them. Also new products need new jigs and the time to market for the new jigs can be slow.

I'll also need to press hardened drill guides into them, so I will need to make those or buy them in bulk.

But the main reason I want my own machines is that I restore classic motorcycles,  mostly Suzuki's from the 70's and early 80's but occasionally an old Honda CT110 has shown up needing work, so nice to be able to make what I need for my hobby and not have to wait for parts or someone else.

I have a great machine shop not far from me and they do all my current work but he's only open 8-5 M-F and I usually need stuff on the weekend and when I take something in on Monday AM I usually get it 3-4 days later or sometimes the following week.

The big kicker is the US$ exchange rate is killing me and I keep waiting thinking it will improve in our favour, but I think it's just got worse. It's about 1.35 CND to a US$ at present. 

So I have 2 sets of machines I'm looking at, PM 1127 lathe and PM 727 Mill or going bigger with the PM1340GT and PM935. I would like to buy the same brand of machines, single supplier to deal with etc.

My experience with Lathes and Mills is limited to high school metal shop, and I did do a Fitting and Turning Apprenticeship as that's what was on offer for locksmiths in NZ back in the 70's, so it's been a while since I've ran either a mill or lathe.


Any feedback or advice will be appreciated.


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## T Bredehoft

I'm envious of your position/need.   Also I applaud your interest in the PM line of machines. Matt is as good as they come, and his products match his attitude/service. Any you get will be well made, it's a common thought that the better (heavier, more well accessorized) machines are the ones to get. It's hard to do larger work on smaller machines, so get the largest you can afford and fit in your shop/budget. I'm really pleased with my PM25, but I'm working on finished assemblies you can put in  your shirt pocket, or at most hold in one hand.

By the way, *welcome* to arguably the best hobby machinist board.


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## MonkMan

Welcome KC


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## jpfabricator

Welcome aboard! 

Sent from somwhere in east Texas by Jake!


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## tmarks11

Kiwi Canuck said:


> The big kicker is the US$ exchange rate is killing me...



There is an importer in Vancouver BC who sells the PM 935.  Matt from PM at one point confirmed that this machine is coming from the same source that he gets his from.  Give them a call and see if it might save you some money.

You might want to also check out their lathes.

http://www.moderntoolbc.com/products/modern-model-935vs-1-milling-machine/


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## Kiwi Canuck

Thanks for the replies and the lead to Modern Tools which is only 30 minutes from my house.

I did call them and chatted to a sales guy there and asked if it was OK to drop in.

Unfortunately the guy I spoke with was not very engaging once in person and they didn't have the mill shown in the attached picture. (the website shows it as in stock)

They only had larger units (Linmac) and he kept insisting a 935 is a pretty small mill/drill and I would be more interested in these larger units.

He showed me a 1440 lathe, they had 2 in stock, I asked if he knew the COO, "nope, not sure maybe China, but we do sell a lot of them to schools", I asked if they had a 1340, "nope, 1440's the smallest we have" that was pretty much it.

I think they sell a lot of their equipment to account customers and are not really setup to service the likes of me that need personal guidance and advice. 

Well unless there is someone from Modern Tools monitoring this site and would like to contact me, it might be my last visit there. (never say never but first impression wasn't great)

It's possible I could certainly save a few $$ by buying from a local shop, but I'm just not that into buying on price when it comes to a technical purchase like this, I need to know they want my business and that they will work hard to take care of me if something goes sideways after the sale.

Same reason I have given up looking for quality used equipment, too many old worn out machines out there asking almost new money and I'm not experienced enough to distinguish between a great deal and a money pit.

OK that's enough of ranting for now, I do appreciate the lead and the other members welcoming me to the site.

David


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## tweinke

Talk to Matt before you give up, just speculating but he might might deal a bit if you want two machines.


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## Kiwi Canuck

Thanks tweinke, I will be calling on Matt at QMT to see what he can do for me if I buy 2 machines at the same time.

But before I get to that conversation I need to see if he can guide me as to what level of machines to look at.

I need a bit more experience or exposure to what's available and what the pros and cons are of each size model.

Wish there was a comparison chart like on a lot of websites were you can compare models online, that would at least give me a good starting point and a  snapshot of the specs side by side.

Maybe I'll make one with excel.


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## dieselshadow

Matt and his crew are easy and down to earth. He'll be straight forward with you.


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## tmarks11

Too bad about Modern Tool.

Everyone will always try to help you spend your wallet empty.  So here is my attempt....

A knee mill is much more useful than a square column mill, since it gives you a lot more option in how to cut and generally gives you a better finish quality.  There are at least two individuals on this forum that started with large square column mills and ended up exchanging them for the PM935.  Personally, I would jump straight to the PM935.  Buy quality, cry once.  Buy cheap, cry a thousand times!

For anyone who has space (a 12x36 lathe takes up A LOT of room), I would advocate not buying a lathe smaller than 12x36.  reasons why:
- smaller lathes has a crippled Quick Change Gear Box, and you end up swapping gears every time you thread
- Smaller lathes have a bolt-on (or spin on) chuck instead of a cam lock chuck.  You WANT a cam lock chuck, since it takes about 30 seconds to swap and is an industry standard so it is easy to buy different chucks.
- The following comments DON'T apply to the PM1127VF:
      - most smaller lathes do not have power cross feed (which you want to give you a nice facing operation) (NOTE: PM1127 has power cross feed)
      - smaller lathes usually have a higher low-end speed.  Doesn't seem like a big deal to have a minimum speed of 150 rpm on a lathe....  until you are threading into a shoulder or an internal bore for the first time...

wrt PM1340GT.  There is a definite step-up in quality to go to the Taiwan vs Chinese lathe.  I would personally go with the PM1340GT.


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## HBilly1022

I'm not positive, but from what I can see the PM lathes are the same or very close to the Craftex brand Busy Bee sells in Vancouver. The difference being that I have only heard good things about the after sales support from PM but the opposite about Busy Bee. At least their BC operation. It appears that PM also offers more options with their line up. 

When I was doing my search for the first lathe a year ago and my second one, over the last week, I searched for Canadian suppliers of hobby lathes and pretty much came to the conclusion that it would be a Craftex or King Industrial. My opinion is that it's too expensive to buy from the US because our dollar is so low right now. I just bought a King 12 x 36 lathe (same as the Grizzly G4003). When I convert the Grizzly price (with stand included) into Cad$, the Grizzly would be almost $1,000 Cad more than what I just paid for the King 12 x 36 with a stand. 

If PM had a dealer in Canada I probably would've bought both of my lathes from them because of the options they offer with their machines and the great reviews I've seen about their after sales support. However I've found an excellent dealer near me and he sells King Industrial lathes. I've had issues with my recent King purchases but I got GREAT support from my dealer and from King's head office to resolve the issues. From some threads I've read BB does not stock much, if any, parts for their lathes, so if a part is needed it could take months to get. King has parts in their head office (Quebec) and as such parts are more than likely available within a week. My experience with one of their mill drill machines convinced me to stay with that brand instead of taking a chance on BB. I did consider PM but the price difference with our dollar being so low was just too much for me. I don't think King machines are the best quality but in the hobby lathe market, I believe they are comparable to other hobby machines. The difference for me is 2 things: 1) the after sales support I got from my dealer and the manufacturer has been excellent 2) parts are available in Canada. Another point in their favor is that the Grizzly brand appears to be identical to the King brand. I checked parts lists for both of my King lathes and they are the same as the Grizzly's. It appears Grizzly may however put different motors on their machines and sometimes (as in the case of my mill drill) some extra features, like a switch that includes a reverse function. Grizzly also has a very large customer base and parts supply. Their parts prices are also good. Being in Vancouver you could easily slip across the line and get any needed parts or have them shipped directly to you.

Those are the reasons I stuck with the King brand but your experience could be different. I think having a supporting dealer and manufacturer is what makes the difference. If you're lucky enough to get a machine that doesn't need warranty work or parts for a long time, then none of that matters but if there are issues, it is comforting to know the support will be there.  

I have no affiliation with any of these suppliers or manufacturers and offer this based on my research and my personal experience with the dealer / manufacturer of the machines I bought.

Hope this is helpful.


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## qualitymachinetools

Yeah the exchange rate in Canada sucks, that's for sure! Wish there was something that could be done about that!    But the thing is, it also is bad from Canada to Taiwan or China, or wherever the machine is coming from that you are looking at, so in general, they should be priced right about the same. 

Just to compare pricing, I am looking at a Craftex 12x36 lathe that is at $4499 CAD (Not the same lathe, but similar)     Thats without the foot brake, without the wedge tool post, etc.  Add these things so figure around $5000 CAD.    Which comes out to about $3730 USD in the converter, and we have the PM-1236 priced at $3399.       Just one example, but the suppliers are in Canada are paying more to the factories to start with, so their prices shouldnt be any lower. For some reason, it seems like a tradition for the price in Canada to be higher all the time, at least from what I've found.   

   The owner of Busy Bee is the brother of the owner of Grizzly. Just an interesting bit of info. 

 I've met some of the guys from Modern Tool before, when I was in Taiwan, they were very nice guys. They were the higher ups though. But I think they are more of an industrial kind of place as already mentioned, they probably have 20x the sales that we do (Just a guess), completely different market. Mostly big machines and CNC's. And I've seen their prices before on their site, I am curious if you got a price on a machine like that 935 from them, even if it wasn't in stock. A while back when the exchange rate was about even, they were about 60% higher.     Too bad you aren't closer, or I'd tell you to stop in here and take a look.  Maybe check out that King if he had good luck above on pricing, see what they have too, I dont know a lot about them. Did not see anything from Taiwan, but they may have something not shown.


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## Kiwi Canuck

tmarks11 said:


> Too bad about Modern Tool.
> 
> Everyone will always try to help you spend your wallet empty.  So here is my attempt....
> 
> A knee mill is much more useful than a square column mill, since it gives you a lot more option in how to cut and generally gives you a better finish quality.  There are at least two individuals on this forum that started with large square column mills and ended up exchanging them for the PM935.  Personally, I would jump straight to the PM935.  But quality, cry once.  Buy cheap, cry a thousand times!
> 
> For anyone who has space (a 12x36 lathe takes up A LOT of room), I would advocate not buying a lathe smaller than 12x36.  reasons why:
> - smaller lathes has a crippled Quick Change Gear Box, and you end up swapping gears every time you thread
> - Smaller lathes have a bolt-on (or spin on) chuck instead of a cam lock chuck.  You WANT a cam lock chuck, since it takes about 30 seconds to swap and is an industry standard so it is easy to buy different chucks.
> - The following comments DON'T apply to the PM1127VF:
> - most smaller lathes do not have power cross feed (which you want to give you a nice facing operation) (NOTE: PM1127 has power cross feed)
> - smaller lathes usually have a higher low-end speed.  Doesn't seem like a big deal to have a minimum speed of 150 rpm on a lathe....  until you are threading into a shoulder or an internal bore for the first time...
> 
> wrt PM1340GT.  There is a definite step-up in quality to go to the Taiwan vs Chinese lathe.  I would personally go with the PM1340GT.



Thanks Tmarks11, all good info to consider, I'm leaning toward the larger sized machines but I'll need to figure out power  and space requirements.

My main shop is in one bay of my 3 car garage, but there's no room or power for the larger machines, so that's something I'll have to consider reorganizing or move it all to my large shop across the other side of my lot.

Cost wise for the larger machines is as follows.

PM1340GT with Preferred Package plus Stand, shipping and 12% taxes but no duty will be $9,250 CND approx.
PM935Tv will be a little over $10,000 so $20,000 CND is a fair budget for both machines.


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## Kiwi Canuck

HBilly1022 said:


> I'm not positive, but from what I can see the PM lathes are the same or very close to the Craftex brand Busy Bee sells in Vancouver. The difference being that I have only heard good things about the after sales support from PM but the opposite about Busy Bee. At least their BC operation. It appears that PM also offers more options with their line up.
> 
> When I was doing my search for the first lathe a year ago and my second one, over the last week, I searched for Canadian suppliers of hobby lathes and pretty much came to the conclusion that it would be a Craftex or King Industrial. My opinion is that it's too expensive to buy from the US because our dollar is so low right now. I just bought a King 12 x 36 lathe (same as the Grizzly G4003). When I convert the Grizzly price (with stand included) into Cad$, the Grizzly would be almost $1,000 Cad more than what I just paid for the King 12 x 36 with a stand.
> 
> If PM had a dealer in Canada I probably would've bought both of my lathes from them because of the options they offer with their machines and the great reviews I've seen about their after sales support. However I've found an excellent dealer near me and he sells King Industrial lathes. I've had issues with my recent King purchases but I got GREAT support from my dealer and from King's head office to resolve the issues. From some threads I've read BB does not stock much, if any, parts for their lathes, so if a part is needed it could take months to get. King has parts in their head office (Quebec) and as such parts are more than likely available within a week. My experience with one of their mill drill machines convinced me to stay with that brand instead of taking a chance on BB. I did consider PM but the price difference with our dollar being so low was just too much for me. I don't think King machines are the best quality but in the hobby lathe market, I believe they are comparable to other hobby machines. The difference for me is 2 things: 1) the after sales support I got from my dealer and the manufacturer has been excellent 2) parts are available in Canada. Another point in their favor is that the Grizzly brand appears to be identical to the King brand. I checked parts lists for both of my King lathes and they are the same as the Grizzly's. It appears Grizzly may however put different motors on their machines and sometimes (as in the case of my mill drill) some extra features, like a switch that includes a reverse function. Grizzly also has a very large customer base and parts supply. Their parts prices are also good. Being in Vancouver you could easily slip across the line and get any needed parts or have them shipped directly to you.
> 
> Those are the reasons I stuck with the King brand but your experience could be different. I think having a supporting dealer and manufacturer is what makes the difference. If you're lucky enough to get a machine that doesn't need warranty work or parts for a long time, then none of that matters but if there are issues, it is comforting to know the support will be there.
> 
> I have no affiliation with any of these suppliers or manufacturers and offer this based on my research and my personal experience with the dealer / manufacturer of the machines I bought.
> 
> Hope this is helpful.



Thanks HBilly1022, I did check out the Craftex brand and dropped into their store when shopping for parts for a Busy Bee Drill Press, and they didn't carry the parts for that drill press anymore.

Their machines are probably one step below Grizzly and fit and finish was very poor for the lathes they had on the floor in their store, looks like a family run business and the owners were present while I was there.

I would consider that product if I was on a tight budget and wanted to get started rather than wait, but I think I would be happier with a better quality/finished product, I really like my good quality tools and always regret it when I cut costs even though I usually know better.

King lathes are sold at KMS tools, I almost bought one on sale a few weeks back just to get started (12x36) IIRC, but after fiddling with it a bit decided to walk away and see how I felt about it in 24hrs, I must not have felt right as I didn't return to buy it.

Thanks again for your info it is appreciated and helpful for me to go through this process.

Regards,

David


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## Kiwi Canuck

qualitymachinetools said:


> Yeah the exchange rate in Canada sucks, that's for sure! Wish there was something that could be done about that!    But the thing is, it also is bad from Canada to Taiwan or China, or wherever the machine is coming from that you are looking at, so in general, they should be priced right about the same.
> 
> Just to compare pricing, I am looking at a Craftex 12x36 lathe that is at $4499 CAD (Not the same lathe, but similar)     Thats without the foot brake, without the wedge tool post, etc.  Add these things so figure around $5000 CAD.    Which comes out to about $3730 USD in the converter, and we have the PM-1236 priced at $3399.       Just one example, but the suppliers are in Canada are paying more to the factories to start with, so their prices shouldnt be any lower. For some reason, it seems like a tradition for the price in Canada to be higher all the time, at least from what I've found.
> 
> The owner of Busy Bee is the brother of the owner of Grizzly. Just an interesting bit of info.
> 
> I've met some of the guys from Modern Tool before, when I was in Taiwan, they were very nice guys. They were the higher ups though. But I think they are more of an industrial kind of place as already mentioned, they probably have 20x the sales that we do (Just a guess), completely different market. Mostly big machines and CNC's. And I've seen their prices before on their site, I am curious if you got a price on a machine like that 935 from them, even if it wasn't in stock. A while back when the exchange rate was about even, they were about 60% higher.     Too bad you aren't closer, or I'd tell you to stop in here and take a look.  Maybe check out that King if he had good luck above on pricing, see what they have too, I dont know a lot about them. Did not see anything from Taiwan, but they may have something not shown.



Well I feel special getting a response from Matt directly to my thread, how cool is that?

Thank you for the response, I will call you to pick your brain about what you suggest.

 I like the package Mike from Zmotosports got but the whole 3 phase deal really gets me in over my head. I'll need help on that if I go that route.

I did not get any pricing on the 935 but he gave me a number on the Linmac VY-2VS 949 Knee Mill, $7,900 IIRC and I believe he told me it's used as that same serial number is listed as sold on their website, it's a pretty big machine.

I have noticed that with a lot of equipment we buy, we get to pay quite a lot more than the US does, in fact at times I can buy a product online for 20% less than when I buy direct from a manufacturer.

Thanks again for responding and I'll talk with you next week.

David.


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## milomilo

You might want to contact one of our members, LKeithR. He is very close to Langley and runs a machine shop there.


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## brino

Kiwi Canuck said:


> It's possible I could certainly save a few $$ by buying from a local shop, but I'm just not that into buying on price when it comes to a technical purchase like this, I need to know they want my business and that they will work hard to take care of me if something goes sideways after the sale.



I have no association with QMT or Matt, I have never been a customer, but I've read enough on this site to know he supports his customers. I have read nothing but positive comments here.



tmarks11 said:


> Everyone will always try to help you spend your wallet empty. So here is my attempt....



That's not what I'm attempting, however, you said "we do a lot of large repetitive tasks" and that almost screams out CNC. I guess you pay more for the operator or the machine.........you decide. If the operator is you, perhaps you can make concessions on the price of your time, however, if you miss your kids growing up then any price is way too low.



qualitymachinetools said:


> For some reason, it seems like a tradition for the price in Canada to be higher all the time, at least from what I've found.





Kiwi Canuck said:


> I have noticed that with a lot of equipment we buy, we get to pay quite a lot more than the US does, in fact at times I can buy a product online for 20% less than when I buy direct from a manufacturer.



(/rant on) Fight it brother! Until all these over-pricing b@5t@rd5 get the point that we will not be held hostage by their ridiculous pricing strategies that's the way it will remain. Did you know that US auto dealers near the border have been told by "corporate" not to sell to Canadians? Buying a car in the US and paying the conversion, taxes, plus cost for inspection (day-time running lights, etc.) can still be less than the price here! They say that the population will not support the lower price, I say put the Canadian dealers out of business until they find one that will do it!!!!!!! (/rant off)



Kiwi Canuck said:


> Well I feel special getting a response from Matt directly to my thread, how cool is that?



I don't mean to burst the bubble of your individual importance, but that's just Matt being Matt.
Yes it is way cool! He looks after his business name and customers........as an owner should!

If you do decide to go with King, find a local dealer that will support you. I feel lucky, my local dealer (Cardon Tools) is terrific! (again, no affiliation, I am nothing but a happy customer!)

Please keep us updated on your search and results!
-brino

EDIT: and oh yes......I got distracted.........Welcome to the group!


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## Kiwi Canuck

Hello Brino, thanks for the welcome and your input, just to clarify, the repetitive tasks are our tech's fitting electronic locks in the field, so with good jigs we can get them semi automated to install them more accurately and that saves time with adjustments afterwards.

We also have to modify locks when they get shipped with the wrong configuration and need to make parts rather than wait 6 weeks for the replacements to arrive.

Currently we are forced to do all this with a drill press and hand tools unless we buy premade jigs and the issue with damage can bring a job to a holt quickly, so the better machines will improve the quality of our handmade jigs by a huge margin and hopefully allow us to get a good return on the investment overtime.

I can justify spending a little more on the machines as they will help us be more productive at work and then I get to play after hours on them.

David.


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## Kiwi Canuck

milomilo said:


> You might want to contact one of our members, LKeithR. He is very close to Langley and runs a machine shop there.



Hello Chris, I looked up this member and his profile showed the last time he was online was in 2012 and has no posts.

Do you know him personally and can forward his details or did I miss something?

David.


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## tmarks11

Kiwi Canuck said:


> Hello Chris, I looked up this member and his profile showed the last time he was online was in 2012



pm sent.


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## milomilo

tmarks11 said:


> pm sent.


Sent you his number.


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## Kiwi Canuck

I spent a bit of time today dropping by vendors looking and learning.

I first went to KMS and discovered they still have the King Industrial 12 x36 on the floor at the Coquitlam branch, it was still for sale for $3,799.00 CND
Now that I'm a little more familiar with lathes I was able to look at it and understand what I was looking at, if that makes sense.
The counter staff guy assured me it was made in Taiwan and suggested all the ones with King Industrial were made in Taiwan whereas King Canada was China. (I somehow didn't believe him but I'll verify by calling the HO of King Industrial just to know for sure.)
Back to the lathes on hand, there was also a 10 x22 mini lathe available as well, but after carefully inspecting the 12 x 36 I noticed the castings where the headstock attaches to the base, very poor castings and the bolt washers were on a 15-20 degree angle and the bolts bent because the casting were all uneven and the torque on the bolts bent them.

The amount of Bondo on this lathe was very obvious and the finish (out of view) was just about toddler level with play doh.
Welding on the stand was dismal.
The cross slide and carriage moved quite smoothly and the handles on the cranks felt quite good in the hand and not all wonky like some I've felt, so that was positive.
Chuck was a Sanou which I understand is a Chinese made item, but it was finished very well and stood out from the fit and finish on the lathe, it was actually a really nicely finished item.

Next I went by Busy Bee Tools about 5 mins away, same floor models as 18 months ago when I was last in there.
While there not a single staff member approached me or asked if they could help me, I was in the store for about 20 mins and was the only customer there.

The lathes were certainly lower end and the prices reflect that, the only machine that got my attention was the CX603 Knee Mill, it looked like a better made machine that everything else and was on sale for about $4,800 IIRC.
I checked their website but it does not show in stock.
Most of the floor models are either made in 2010-2012, didn't see anything much newer than that.
It says something for the durability as every floor model appliance or BBQ in Home Depot has almost every knob missing or broken off, and here were several machines 4-5 years old and on display for people like me to play with and they seemed to be holding up OK.

I am slowly learning more as I go and can eliminate most of these offerings unless the budget gets severely crunched.

At around 2PM (5Pm EST) I called QMT and got Matt on the line right away, we had a good chat for about 10 mins and I  am in the middle of writing an email to him with my wish list. (Dear Santa ....)

I will need to take a leap of faith at some point but I will at least need to get myself to a point were I am clear on what I'll need to accomplish with these two machines at a minimum and that should help me with my choices.

Now if the people who set the exchange rates can help us out here, it'll make the decision to order the PM machines so much easier.

Thanks for all the input so far.

David.


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## Hawkeye

Now, would this be the same Kiwi Canuck from BCCMC? Can't be too many in this province using that handle. Welcome to H-M. These guys can steer you straight on any topic that comes to mind. Most of my machines are quite old, so I might not be much help right now.


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## Kiwi Canuck

Hawkeye said:


> Now, would this be the same Kiwi Canuck from BCCMC? Can't be too many in this province using that handle. Welcome to H-M. These guys can steer you straight on any topic that comes to mind. Most of my machines are quite old, so I might not be much help right now.


Yes that's me, I have that user name pretty much on all the motorcycle related forums I'm on, GS Resources,  ADV Rider, DRRiders and Garage Journal as well.

Good to see familiar names on here. 

I did go over to Rusty Bits workshop on Sunday after coffee and I was all over his machines, both older than me though and quizzed him a bit about what I should be looking for.

Cheers,

David.


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## Hawkeye

Twisted Twin would be another good one to touch base with. He lives in Langley and has machines at home as well as a t work.


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## Kiwi Canuck

OK, so I've received an email response from Matt and he gave me a very detailed response with regard to the 3 options I requested. (I added the 12x36 lathe & PM32 Mill package)

I have probably read (and watched videos) for 30 hours on lathes alone since I first posted and are finally starting to see through the fog.

I have been flip flopping back and forward, yes 120VAC machines (PM1127 + PM727), easy to install, reasonably light to move around will fit in my garage, up and running quickly, OK lets order..............

But what about the PM1236 & PM932 and as Matt mentioned, is only a grand more, better value, all righty then.................but where will I put them, no 220VAC in the garage where the machines will go and will require trenching outside around the building unless I run surface conduit inside the fully finished garage.

Well if I'm going to go 220VAC I'll need to run new wire and electrical, so might as well go with the better machines PM1340GT & PM935....................

Matt suggested something I never thought of, a PM1236 and a PM935 if I was challenged with the extra cost of the PM1340GT, so that added another factor that I'd not thought of and I've been looking online and reading about that lathe today.

Wow this rabbit hole just got deeper after reading about 3 phase motors conversions with a VFD on a PM1236.

I have not even started to get into the full landed costs for each option but did find out that Canada has a zero duty on metal lathes which is nice to know.

HS commodity code 8458.99.0000
https://www.dutycalculator.com/dc/1...rting-metal-lathes-from-china-to-canada-is-0/

Looks Like USA has 4.2% Import Duty on metal lathes.

OK back to the studying.


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## petertha

I'm in Calgary & one of the contributers on our local metalhead forum from Edmonton area bought a PM932 mill from Matt. He had nothing but great things to say about his service & shipping to Canada. I have a King 14x40 late 90's vintage, made in Taiwan. At the time Modern Tool (Calgary) was a King distributer & that's where where I purchased my lathe & RF-45 mill (very similar to PM932 mentioned). But Modern sells their own line of China connection machines & have for some time. This is the current smallest 14x40 they carry. I thought it looked ok, a little rough around the corners compared to mine, but nothing brutal. I wasn't enamoured about the dials & unfortunately that's what your hands are always on. http://www.moderntool.com/products/modern-model-c0636a-x-1000-lathe/
The biggest factor to me is when you need parts & service. There are some many +/- experiences out there but my own view is BusyBee/KMS King-China is a notch below the aforementioned vendors.

Some other considerations to hep melt your credit card (but for all the right reasons!)

- Consider a DRO. Sometimes the vendors can pass on savings & do the mounting & bracketry before delivering & might end up as same/lower cost when you factor buying it separately & the 'joy' of doing it yourself. Once that heavy muther machine is in place, you either need a way to get in behind it for certain mounting, or made provisions so you can move around a bit to accommodate. DRO's make machining so much more enjoyable. They save time, reduces boo-boos & mitigate some of the dial quality & any backlash issues on lesser machines. I ran my lathe & mill both ways & I would really miss my DRO now.

- if you are contemplating doing taper turning (ie. requiring a taper attachment) I suspect you have to make that decision now. Retrofitting them is a PITA & not cost effective. At least that was the case on my King 14x40 & I think that still holds true today, but check. Its not just a bolt-on thing, the cross slide & leadscrew assembly is different. There are days I wish I sprung for it, but those were my budget realities at the time.

- Really look hard at the stand. Sometimes they are decent & sometimes they are sheetmetal headaches. I had one welded for my lathe from 2" steel tubing & adjustable rubber feet. It's very solid & torsionally rigid & didn't cost that much. My RF-45 mill has the bolt-together tin stand & I regret not making one. It buzzes & vibrates, is less solid & is difficult to store anything in that goofy cabinet anyway.

- I also cheaped out & did not get the lathe backsplash which was sold separately at the time. Another dumb move on my part. I'm not a sheet metal  welder guy. Keep the swarf & oil spittle off your walls, easier cleanup.

-220 wasn't a big deal, just money & an electrician. If you are like most of us metalheads, the family might grow one day with mill, TIG welder... heck even hobby compressors are coming that way now.

Good luck with your journey & keep us posted!


----------



## tmarks11

Kiwi Canuck said:


> ...PM1127...PM1236....PM1340GT and ...PM727....PM935........



  

Welcome to machine buying!  It is something we all go through.... for only $500 I can buy this.... and only another $500....

And then the online forum weighs in with "for only another $1000"....

wrt PM1127 vs PM1236 or PM1340GT:

PM1236 (or larger) has some very huge advantages:
1. Full Quick Change Gear Box (QCGB).  The smaller machines are crippled.
2. Cam Lock Chuck.  Huge deal.  Swap out chucks in 30 seconds.

WRT 110V vs 220V.  You could always put a 110V motor on a 1236 lathe.  The downside is that a 2 HP motor fuel load current draw is about 19A, which probably exceeds (or is close to exceeding) the 110V circuit that you have installed.  And you won't find a 115V inverter that would drive a three phase motor larger than 1 HP.

Surface conduit isn't a bad look.  And really, it isn't that hard to run wiring in the walls either.  I have put in 5 220V outlets in my fully-finished garage.  Definitely no need to trench of either of those options are available.


----------



## Muskt

I started with a Grizz 9x20 about 11 years ago.  It did most of what I desired--Still, I wanted bigger.  I acquired a Grizz mill--a bit smaller than the 932--Installed a VFD on it & had great fun using it.  Retired & moved from Alaska to the USA.  Sold the lathe & mill cuz it was too expensive to ship.

Did all the research things you have done, & settled on the PM12x36 (no DRO) + the PM932PDF with the installed DRO.  I am satisfied with both machines.  I had a few issues with surface finish on the lathe, & finally settled on a VFD & motor swap.  Much improved surface finish--Changing the RPM by only a small amount can considerably change the finish.  I have had no issues with the mill.  During the surface finish time, Matt was planning a weekend in Ocean City MD.  He offered to stop by my home in Delaware to check out the machine--about 45 minutes out of his way.  I turned down the offer, but I firmly believe that that offer speaks volumes about him & his devotion to his machines & customers.

Back to the lathe.  I am much more satisfied with it now, and feel that the VFD conversion was worth the money (about $675 USD).

As to the camlock vs direct mount for the chuck-I have a 3 jaw, a 4 jaw, & an ER-32 collet chuck.  It is quicker to change, and generally less of a PITA than a direct mount with bolts, nuts, ropes, & bungee cords; however, if you are not prone to changing 2 or 3 times per project, well, maybe it isn't such a big deal for you.  I LIKE THE CAMLOCK!!!

If you have a nicely finished floor in the proposed shop location, the 12x36 & the 932 can easily be moved by one person & an engine hoist.  I am nearly 70, & uncrated, assembled, & placed both machines 100% by my self.  I will not speculate on doing that with a 13x40 or the 935 because I have never seen them.

From all the posts here on the forum, the 13x40 & the 935 are superior machines.  They come with a superior price tag, also. Does that mean that the others are inadequate or junk??  ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!  Both of my machines needed a bit of tweaking to get them up to my desired degree of accuracy and usability.  However, I am a home shop tinkerer and do not use them for income purposes.  But, then think of all the shops that are running very old & possibly severely worn machines.  The quality of work produced more than likely is a result of the operators skill and dedication than to the country of origin or color of the paint on the machines.

I would recommend that you base your decision on all of the factors and pointers that have been posted here and then enjoy your new tools and have fun using them.

Jerry in Delaware


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

petertha said:


> I'm in Calgary & one of the contributers on our local metalhead forum from Edmonton area bought a PM932 mill from Matt. He had nothing but great things to say about his service & shipping to Canada. I have a King 14x40 late 90's vintage, made in Taiwan. At the time Modern Tool (Calgary) was a King distributer & that's where where I purchased my lathe & RF-45 mill (very similar to PM932 mentioned). But Modern sells their own line of China connection machines & have for some time. This is the current smallest 14x40 they carry. I thought it looked ok, a little rough around the corners compared to mine, but nothing brutal. I wasn't enamoured about the dials & unfortunately that's what your hands are always on. http://www.moderntool.com/products/modern-model-c0636a-x-1000-lathe/
> The biggest factor to me is when you need parts & service. There are some many +/- experiences out there but my own view is BusyBee/KMS King-China is a notch below the aforementioned vendors.
> 
> Some other considerations to hep melt your credit card (but for all the right reasons!)
> 
> - Consider a DRO. Sometimes the vendors can pass on savings & do the mounting & bracketry before delivering & might end up as same/lower cost when you factor buying it separately & the 'joy' of doing it yourself. Once that heavy muther machine is in place, you either need a way to get in behind it for certain mounting, or made provisions so you can move around a bit to accommodate. DRO's make machining so much more enjoyable. They save time, reduces boo-boos & mitigate some of the dial quality & any backlash issues on lesser machines. I ran my lathe & mill both ways & I would really miss my DRO now.
> 
> - if you are contemplating doing taper turning (ie. requiring a taper attachment) I suspect you have to make that decision now. Retrofitting them is a PITA & not cost effective. At least that was the case on my King 14x40 & I think that still holds true today, but check. Its not just a bolt-on thing, the cross slide & leadscrew assembly is different. There are days I wish I sprung for it, but those were my budget realities at the time.
> 
> -220 wasn't a big deal, just money & an electrician. If you are like most of us metalheads, the family might grow one day with mill, TIG welder... heck even hobby compressors are coming that way now.
> 
> Good luck with your journey & keep us posted!





petertha, thanks for taking the time to comment and give me feedback on your experiences.

Sometimes what doesn't work or what you would have done differently helps confirm my direction or helps justify the additional cost outlay.

I usually don't do this much research when buying equipment or toys but I'm enjoying the journey and info I'm gathering as I'll need to know most of this anyway.

I also don't usually have a set budget either, as the right equipment costs what it costs, I try to keep costs in the background until I figure out who I'm buying from and which level of equipment is recommended.

Once all that's figured out I can then see if it makes sense financially.

I'd rather have something on my wish list than a reminder on how not to buy. I've done it enough times to know the feeling unfortunately.

I have chosen QMT as the company I will purchase from it's just a matter of making the right choice on the machines.

I hear you on KMS as a vendor, we buy a lot of tools and equipment from them, we have 12 trucks on the road and a lot of our tools come from them, but I have had some very frustrating experiences with their customer service and repair dept. lately.

I will still shop at KMS but I'm not buying my lathe and mill from them.

I d0 have 220 in the garage and my compressor is 220, which I was able to borrow the 220 from an unused hot water heater in the mechanical room (had both NG and Electric HW heaters) but I don't have any 220 where I need it.

The actual electrical work is not the a big deal, as I can do all the work myself as I renovated/flipped houses for 20 years, it's just that I'm really fussy about the way it's installed at my house and wouldn't let just anyone install additional services.

Pretty sure I've eliminated the smaller machines as an option so looks like I'll have some wiring to do in my future, also pretty sure I'll go with 3 phase motors and VFDs as well based on the majority of posts here.
Fortunate to have a Kiwi guy from my Classic MC Club who is familiar with them and would be willing to help with setup.

Hawkeye, I spoke with Twisted Twin at coffee this morning, he confirmed all same info here, go with 220VAC, VFD and bigger is better.

Cheers,

David


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

tmarks11 said:


> Welcome to machine buying!  It is something we all go through.... for only $500 I can buy this.... and only another $500....
> 
> And then the online forum weighs in with "for only another $1000"....
> 
> wrt PM1127 vs PM1236 or PM1340GT:
> 
> PM1236 (or larger) has some very huge advantages:
> 1. Full Quick Change Gear Box (QCGB).  The smaller machines are crippled.
> 2. Cam Lock Chuck.  Huge deal.  Swap out chucks in 30 seconds.
> 
> WRT 110V vs 220V.  You could always put a 110V motor on a 1236 lathe.  The downside is that a 2 HP motor fuel load current draw is about 19A, which probably exceeds (or is close to exceeding) the 110V circuit that you have installed.  And you won't find a 115V inverter that would drive a three phase motor larger than 1 HP.
> 
> Surface conduit isn't a bad look.  And really, it isn't that hard to run wiring in the walls either.  I have put in 5 220V outlets in my fully-finished garage.  Definitely no need to trench of either of those options are available.



Thanks for the additional info, all good points which I will follow.

Standard outlets are wired with 14 AWG which is 15 amps max load, I need a 20 Amp 120 outlet on the same wall so will run it at the same time as the 220V.

I will run (1) 120V 20 Amp circuit using 12 AWG, (2) 220V 30 Amp circuits using 10AWG.

Hopefully I can fit it all in a 3/4" conduit with (2) 90's, if not it'll need to be 1".

I will be able to get up the wall into ceiling space and then get only about 10' across as we have a finished space above garage and no access, then will dropout below ceiling and then surface the rest of the way.

Cheers,


----------



## petertha

You're welcome. Some other links
This link page shows the taper attachment. Unfortunately what they (continue to) gloss over is the different cross slide / lead screw assembly that is also required. So as mentioned, if that's on the wish list, I believe you have to spec that up front. Otherwise tapers are confined to the limits of your compound or some tailstock offset method.
http://www.kingcanada.com/Products.htm?CD=116&ID=12037

You are close to KBC Delta. I haven't been to their store myself. I feel like I know them because brown parcels with their logo are on my porch quite often  Looks like they are a King distributer. At least if they have some models of interest on the floor maybe you can get up close & personal with the machine. That stand looks much better than my era & I guess that must be a brake mechanism integrated into the base?
http://www.kbctools.ca/products/MACHINERY/LATHES/MANUAL LATHES/9056.aspx


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Muskt said:


> I started with a Grizz 9x20 about 11 years ago.  It did most of what I desired--Still, I wanted bigger.  I acquired a Grizz mill--a bit smaller than the 932--Installed a VFD on it & had great fun using it.  Retired & moved from Alaska to the USA.  Sold the lathe & mill cuz it was too expensive to ship.
> 
> Did all the research things you have done, & settled on the PM12x36 (no DRO) + the PM932PDF with the installed DRO.  I am satisfied with both machines.  I had a few issues with surface finish on the lathe, & finally settled on a VFD & motor swap.  Much improved surface finish--Changing the RPM by only a small amount can considerably change the finish.  I have had no issues with the mill.  During the surface finish time, Matt was planning a weekend in Ocean City MD.  He offered to stop by my home in Delaware to check out the machine--about 45 minutes out of his way.  I turned down the offer, but I firmly believe that that offer speaks volumes about him & his devotion to his machines & customers.
> 
> Back to the lathe.  I am much more satisfied with it now, and feel that the VFD conversion was worth the money (about $675 USD).
> 
> As to the camlock vs direct mount for the chuck-I have a 3 jaw, a 4 jaw, & an ER-32 collet chuck.  It is quicker to change, and generally less of a PITA than a direct mount with bolts, nuts, ropes, & bungee cords; however, if you are not prone to changing 2 or 3 times per project, well, maybe it isn't such a big deal for you.  I LIKE THE CAMLOCK!!!
> 
> If you have a nicely finished floor in the proposed shop location, the 12x36 & the 932 can easily be moved by one person & an engine hoist.  I am nearly 70, & uncrated, assembled, & placed both machines 100% by my self.  I will not speculate on doing that with a 13x40 or the 935 because I have never seen them.
> 
> From all the posts here on the forum, the 13x40 & the 935 are superior machines.  They come with a superior price tag, also. Does that mean that the others are inadequate or junk??  ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!  Both of my machines needed a bit of tweaking to get them up to my desired degree of accuracy and usability.  However, I am a home shop tinkerer and do not use them for income purposes.  But, then think of all the shops that are running very old & possibly severely worn machines.  The quality of work produced more than likely is a result of the operators skill and dedication than to the country of origin or color of the paint on the machines.
> 
> I would recommend that you base your decision on all of the factors and pointers that have been posted here and then enjoy your new tools and have fun using them.
> 
> Jerry in Delaware



Jerry thanks for your response, I think I have read some of your posts on here so thanks for those as well.

The floor in both the garage and workshop are both very smoothly finished (with radiant heat installed so no drilling unless I'm willing to pay for scanning) so hopefully I can get them positioned with one other helper.

Pretty sure the PM 935 will be what I order, just going to crunch the numbers and see if I go 1340GT or 1236.

By the way I love the PM Blue and White

David


----------



## brino

tmarks11 said:


> Cam Lock Chuck. Huge deal. Swap out chucks in 30 seconds.



vs. about 25 seconds for a screw-on chuck? I don't get it. I don't mean to intrude on the conversation, but what's the perceived advantage of a cam-lock chuck? Repeatability maybe? Teach me. Please and thanks!



Kiwi Canuck said:


> I usually don't do this much research when buying equipment or toys but I'm enjoying the journey and info I'm gathering as I'll need to know most of this anyway.



Actually I consider it invaluable research. You may not even realize it until _after_ you have bought, setup and are using your new machine exactly the nuanced usefulness of some features. A "deep think" about them upfront might also lead you there.

-brino


----------



## dieselshadow

I'm new to this also, but a bolt-on or screw-on chuck vs a cam lock is a no-brainer to me. A cam lock is way quicker and easier. Bolts are easy, but there's absolutely no way you're changing out a bolt-on chuck in less than a minute. A cam lock? Easy money. Repeatability? Without question. A bolt-on or screw-on chuck? Perhaps, but not in that timeline. 

I'm no expert by any means. Just my $.000000002.


----------



## Muskt

When I owned the 9x20, it had the 39x4 threaded spindle.  As with many of the "less expensive" machines, the fit of the registration flange was not as precise as it could have been.  When I acquired a "real" 4 jaw and created my own adapter plate, I made it fit correctly.   Yes, it required about the same time to either install or remove as a cam-lock.  One serious drawback to the screw on spindle is that you cannot run the machine backwards, as some operators do.

I think that the original context of this discussion revolves around the bolt-on arrangement of the smaller machines used by members of this forum (the PM machines).

I believe that it was the 11x27 that has a non-standard mount, as well as very limited availability for other chucks.  This statement is only a guess on my part.  However, after using the threaded spindle for about 10 years, and the D-1 for 2, I can state that I definitely prefer the cam-lock.  

Hope this helps a bit.
Jerry in Delaware


----------



## tmarks11

brino said:


> vs. about 25 seconds for a screw-on chuck? I don't get it. I don't mean to intrude on the conversation, but what's the perceived advantage of a cam-lock chuck?



A screw-on chuck is probably faster than a camlock, but....

When I hit the foot brake (or have a VFD with regenerative breaking), the screw-on chuck unscrews (yes, I know, generally don't find a foot brake on a machine with a screw-on chuck).

Also, some times I run the spindle in reverse because the compound works better for the angle of the cut.  Not possible with a screw-on chuck.

My statement was aimed more at the bolt on chucks, which takes longer than a cam lock. Additionally, cam-lock chucks are a standard size, so you can buy any brand.  Most bolt-on chucks are not.


----------



## tmarks11

Kiwi Canuck said:


> I will run (1) 120V 20 Amp circuit using 12 AWG, (2) 220V 30 Amp circuits using 10AWG.
> 
> Hopefully I can fit it all in a 3/4" conduit with (2) 90's, if not it'll need to be 1".



No need to wonder... yes, it will fit in 3/4" conduit.I came up with 40% fill (this is assuming you are using THHN). Note that 6 current carrying conductors require you derate to 80%, but since that is based on the 90C limits, you are still good with your planned wire size.  YMMV, since Canada has sometimes stricter codes.







http://www.electrician2.com/calculators/rf_calculator.html

You could also make your life easier, and surface mount a small breaker panel near where your tools are, and just run 8AWG to that panel.  Easy to turn power on to the machines.  Wish I thought of that before I ran 10AWG for each circuit 75' across my garage in the  attic.


----------



## bobl

Take a look at sharp industries I have a 13-40 made in Taiwan had for about 15 years no problems   good all round machine 
Don't forget to also look at used I also restored a h10 southbend and a Rockwell mill and modified to a turret mill 
We are neighbors I'm in Mission 


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## brino

dieselshadow said:


> I'm new to this also, but a bolt-on or screw-on chuck vs a cam lock is a no-brainer to me. A cam lock is way quicker and easier. Bolts are easy, but there's absolutely no way you're changing out a bolt-on chuck in less than a minute.





tmarks11 said:


> My statement was aimed more at the bolt on chucks, which takes longer than a cam lock.



Thanks Guys!
I missed the fact that the comparison was cam-lock vs. bolt-on (ie. not screw-on).
I am obviously NOT researching the discussed models as deeply as you are.
I appreciate the responses.

-brino


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

tmarks11 said:


> No need to wonder... yes, it will fit in 3/4" conduit.I came up with 40% fill (this is assuming you are using THHN). Note that 6 current carrying conductors require you derate to 80%, but since that is based on the 90C limits, you are still good with your planned wire size.  YMMV, since Canada has sometimes stricter codes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.electrician2.com/calculators/rf_calculator.html
> 
> You could also make your life easier, and surface mount a small breaker panel near where your tools are, and just run 8AWG to that panel.  Easy to turn power on to the machines.  Wish I thought of that before I ran 10AWG for each circuit 75' across my garage in the  attic.



That calculator is pretty cool, I usually just cut a small section of pipe and stuff it with wires and use my eyetrometer to measure it, no inspection so the 40% fill is negotiable as we are only using low voltage at work but with 220 with high loads it's nice to be safe.

Really like the idea of running a small sub panel over by the machines, that would be a nice set up.
I'll check what wiring we have in stock and then decide, probably don't have 8 but good chance we have a few partial rolls of 10 and 12 left over from jobs, need to think about that.

I went up in the ceiling today to see if I could feed a wire up over the suite and back down into one of the other hatches, no go they are all separated so it will require surface conduit for 65' or so.

That will be a nice job for my oldest son as he has been working on one of our crews for the last year and is apparently really good at bending and installing pipe, not a complicated install but  he can go in the attic as well and save me from getting hot and bothered up there.
I'll stub down off a box in the attic and use a LB Pull connector on the ceiling rather than another box, it should look pretty discrete and then run across the ceiling.

Got to go.


----------



## Hawkeye

Sounds good. It never hurts to get the same info from different sources, including some you already know. I picked up my Aspencade from Shawn after my older Interstate tried to kill me.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

So that didn't work out how I was expecting, I was so full of hope after seeing the election results, the USA is going to collapse and I can buy my machines at 50 cents on the dollar or there abouts, instead we lost another 1/2 cent.

Oh well.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

I went over to see LKeithR yesterday on the way home from work, he has a machine shop 15 mins from my house, very nice man and I spent about 30 minutes getting a tour of his shop.

I think the most value I got from visiting with him was the types of tooling I would need to purchase for the type of projects I have in mind.

I will certainly drop by again sometime when I have more time once I get my machines.

He also confirmed that go as big as I can upfront and suggested a 1440 lathe if I have room, he has a very HD 1340 lathe that weighs around 3000 lbs. 

Thanks for the intro, very much appreciated.

On a side note, I did get an an email back from King Canada and they confirmed the King Industrial 1236 lathe is of Chinese Origin.

Ramblings,

I have been mulling over all the options in my mind, and I'm still having an issue with choosing which models I should go with. (still only Considering Precision Matthews Machines)

I'm so confused I am having trouble trying determine what/where the resistance is. 

Need to sit with it a while longer I guess, not sure why I've got stuck on this as I normally make my choice, buy and deal with it.

I am living the phrase "Paralysis by Analysis" and I better buy soon or I'm going to have to walk away and come back to this in a few weeks. 

I think I need to make that excel sheet I was going to make and add pricing as well and hopefully that will put some order to all the stuff floating around in my head.

I'll also layout the machines sizes on cardboard or something so I can visualize the size in each work space. 

As I write this out I just realized that I have not fully committed to where these machines will live, so perhaps  that's certainly compounding my choices.

The three locations are; 
My Electronic Locksmith business in the city with access to 3 phase power, but 45 mins from my house, not good for personal tinkering or weekend hobby work.

Home 3 car garage, have one bay dedicated to motorcycle parking (5) and workbench/workshop, need work to get 220V power setup and not a lot of room left for large machines, probably OK for smaller 120V machines.

Home 40' x 40' workshop, has 220v power has lots of room, cons, tenants above so noise could be an issue at night, far from house, so not conducive to running out for 30 mins or so if it's raining and cold, minor issues but I have my wood saws over there and I will do things by hand in the garage rather than run over there unless I have to.  Would need to move my whole workshop over there as I couldn't operate in 2 different spaces. (my wife would love having the 3 car garage all clean of clutter.)

So one of the other issues, once I get location determined will be, will I actually use the machines after the novelty wears off and if so do I really need to spend $20K to find out, that's a hard one to know but it's definitely been on my mind.

That's enough rambling for now, 

David


----------



## MonkMan

KC, it took me 13 months of back and forth to finally place my order. Much relieved! Now getting ready for December delivery.


----------



## jbolt

If you are unsure if you will use the machines after a while I think you best chance of success is having them in the garage close at hand. There are countless times I will pop out into the garage to fix or fabricate something. Second would be your shop on your property (it sound like it is closer than your work?) When my construction business was at its largest I kept my woodworking equipment in a warehouse and the last thing I wanted to do was drive to the shop to use the equipment for a small home project. I made do with my portable tools in my truck.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Thanks for all the responses, I really do appreciate it.

I did get to look at jbolts postings and I am very appreciative of your write up on your 1440GT, thanks for adding another option I didn't know about, haha.

The good news is I got to learn a lot about DRO's which I knew very little except they were a worthwhile addition, the videos on DRO Pros were very good.

While in my shop today I was visualizing the layout and thought about moving or getting rid of a couple of safes that have been used as a dumping table for kids bike gear and stuff that doesn't have a proper place.

I had a thought, I wonder if anyone has ever use safes as a stand for a lathe, I have 2 identical unused metal safes about 36" tall that weigh around 450lbs each, that could possibly used as the base for a lathe.

Not sure how thick the outside plate steel is but probably minimum 3/8" or possibly 1/2" I'll take a look at that a bit closer and maybe drill a discrete exploratory hole.

David


----------



## brino

Kiwi Canuck said:


> I wonder if anyone has ever use safes as a stand for a lathe, I have 2 identical unused metal safes about 36" tall that weigh around 450lbs each



That's a cool idea! I have certainly _NEVER _heard of that, but I think it's a great idea. You may want the ability to level things up, but that can be done with spacers under legs. 

Note: a machine does not need to be level to be functional, but it's a great reference to compare things too.

I bet they would make a great base, with no sandbags needed for extra mass for vibration damping.

-brino


----------



## Muskt

To me, 36 is way too tall.  I am 5 foot 8.  I just measured my PM 12x36.  The bottom of the lathe is 31.5--which includes my 2 inch square tubing base + the adjusters.  I spend a lot of time on my toes trying to see over the QCTP to see where I am cutting.  I would really like about 2-3 inches lower.

Jerry in Delaware


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Muskt said:


> To me, 36 is way too tall.  I am 5 foot 8.  I just measured my PM 12x36.  The bottom of the lathe is 31.5--which includes my 2 inch square tubing base + the adjusters.  I spend a lot of time on my toes trying to see over the QCTP to see where I am cutting.  I would really like about 2-3 inches lower.
> 
> Jerry in Delaware


Hi Jerry, I'm 6' 2" so not crazy tall but not short either.

Not sure I will use them just a thought that crossed my mind as QMT is making cast iron bases and charging $$$ for them and I have something here that may work.

OK went and measured them, they are only 30" tall by 22" wide, with all the stuff stored on them (junk) I forgot they were that short.

My work benches are 37 inches and 39 1/2", the 39 1/2" is the perfect height for me, but I mounted my big Yost vise on that bench, it's way to tall to work at comfortably so I know what you mean about getting on your tip toes to see what you're working on. BTW I have a 4" Record vise on the 37" bench and that works for me.

What height is normal for a lathe and how do they measure it, to the center of the chuck?
Edit, just looked up the PM1236, it shows 46" to spindle center, is this accurate?

Are you using the PM1236 base with an add on or did you fab your own completely?

David


----------



## tmarks11

Kiwi Canuck said:


> The good news is I got to learn a lot about DRO's which I knew very little except they were a worthwhile addition, the videos on DRO Pros were very good.



DRO on a mill is a must have, in my book.

DRO on a lathe is a nice to have, but easy enough to do almost everything you need with a $30 magnet backed travel indicator. That being said, I am buying a DRO for my lathe for Christmas because she has been good to me.


----------



## Muskt

Fabbed an add-on out of 2x2 square tubing.  The first pic is of the base--Disregard the 4 extra holes on the left side (senior moment)--Should only have the 2 in the center like the right side.

The other pic is the lathe in its new home (before all the "stuff" is piled around).  The 31.5 inch measurement is to the bottom of the drip pan which is close
enough to the bottom of the lathe.

I don't know about the spindle height, shop is locked up for the night.


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## Kiwi Canuck

Muskt said:


> Fabbed an add-on out of 2x2 square tubing.  The first pic is of the base--Disregard the 4 extra holes on the left side (senior moment)--Should only have the 2 in the center like the right side.
> 
> The other pic is the lathe in its new home (before all the "stuff" is piled around).  The 31.5 inch measurement is to the bottom of the drip pan which is close
> enough to the bottom of the lathe.
> 
> I don't know about the spindle height, shop is locked up for the night.
> 
> View attachment 139410
> View attachment 139411


OK thanks for the info, why did you build the base, was it too short or what??

BTW what size chuck is on your lathe, it looks bigger than standard 6"?


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## Kiwi Canuck

tmarks11 said:


> DRO on a mill is a must have, in my book.
> 
> DRO on a lathe is a nice to have, but easy enough to do almost everything you need with a $30 magnet backed travel indicator. That being said, I am buying a DRO for my lathe for Christmas because she has been good to me.



I need all the help I can get so I'll definitely will get the DRO on the mill and hopefully the lathe as well.


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## Muskt

I wanted to be able to "level" it, & saw a similar base by another member.  It is OK, I just wish it wasn't quite so tall.
The chuck is the factory 4-jaw.

Jerry in Delaware


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## Chipper5783

An obvious solution is that you need to get 3 lathes, one for each location.

Will you continue to use the machines?  Yes.  Machining will take over your life, all other hobbies will cease to have any relevance.  Within 6 months, you will find that some machining will be required for any project you undertake - no matter how distant it is from actual metal working and you will wonder how you survived as long as you have without easy access to machine tools.

I bought my 15" lathe from Modern Tool in Burnaby in 1983.  I was green as grass but had $$ burning a hole in my pocket (and they helped big time with that).  Sure I cried once on the price, but many times as I look back - no regrets, that 15" lathe has been a good machine for me.  I have since purchased 5 more primary machines and all put together those 5 come to what I paid for that first machine (sort of like dollar cost averaging).  I think your assessment of MT really catering to commercial clients is probably correct.  I generally have a low expectation of getting customer service, so the onus is on me to get what I want.    At one time I thought it would become a business, but no - machining has been a great hobby for me for many years.

After many years of various compromise arrangements, I finally built the shop.  With our yard & house, it was pretty easy to add onto the existing garage.  I really like that the shop is attached and I can be working on some project in less than a minute and miserable weather is no issue (in fact it is almost an invitation to light the wood stove, get that radiant heat soaking into my bones).

Be sure to let us know what you finally settle on.

Regards, David


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## Kiwi Canuck

Chipper5783 said:


> An obvious solution is that you need to get 3 lathes, one for each location.
> 
> Will you continue to use the machines?  Yes.  Machining will take over your life, all other hobbies will cease to have any relevance.  Within 6 months, you will find that some machining will be required for any project you undertake - no matter how distant it is from actual metal working and you will wonder how you survived as long as you have without easy access to machine tools.
> 
> I bought my 15" lathe from Modern Tool in Burnaby in 1983.  I was green as grass but had $$ burning a hole in my pocket (and they helped big time with that).  Sure I cried once on the price, but many times as I look back - no regrets, that 15" lathe has been a good machine for me.  I have since purchased 5 more primary machines and all put together those 5 come to what I paid for that first machine (sort of like dollar cost averaging).  I think your assessment of MT really catering to commercial clients is probably correct.  I generally have a low expectation of getting customer service, so the onus is on me to get what I want.    At one time I thought it would become a business, but no - machining has been a great hobby for me for many years.
> 
> After many years of various compromise arrangements, I finally built the shop.  With our yard & house, it was pretty easy to add onto the existing garage.  I really like that the shop is attached and I can be working on some project in less than a minute and miserable weather is no issue (in fact it is almost an invitation to light the wood stove, get that radiant heat soaking into my bones).
> 
> Be sure to let us know what you finally settle on.
> 
> Regards, David



Hey David, great reply, I wouldn't be surprised if I end up buying a set for the business and another for home, it has crossed my mind. But first I need to make my first purchase and get that under my belt.

I'm really torn on location, my wife has said as long as it doesn't take away from her parking in the middle bay (which probably means being able to open her car door to get out) I can put them in the house garage.

I may get the PM 1236/PM932 package first and then once up to speed move them to the business and get the larger Taiwanese made machines for here. 

Got to choose soon as I've given myself until Nov 24th as my deadline.

David.


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## Muskt

I measured my 12x36 today, & it is 47.5 at the spindle center.  It sits on a 2 inch square tubing base with adjustable leveling feet under the base.


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## Kiwi Canuck

Muskt said:


> I measured my 12x36 today, & it is 47.5 at the spindle center.  It sits on a 2 inch square tubing base with adjustable leveling feet under the base.



Thanks for the info. pretty sure I'll also need to increase the height if I go with the stock cabinets.

I felt like I had made my mind up on buying the PM1236/PM932 and then I met with my oldest son for lunch today.

 I mentioned I was looking at buying these machines and was tossing up between China or Taiwan made machines, I also asked him if he could help with some conduit work, he said no problem.

He reminded me that I always buy quality (and preach quality) and why would I be considering less. Dang!! nothing like someone who knows you to remind you of your values. 

So I will review my thought process and see if I come back to those same machines or up the anti, the exchange rate is brutal at the moment (approx $1.38 CND to buy $1 US) so I'm definitely having a hard time justifying the PM1340GT/PM935 price tag.

I finished my excel spreadsheet, it was actually a pretty good exercise, but took about 3-4 hrs to come up with a layout that made sense.

I was able to add or delete options to evaluate pricing with different machines and different optional extras including DRO's and tooling. 

Quick question for the Canadians who have purchased machines from QMT and had them shipped to Canada, did you get hit with extra freight and what about brokerage and duty? 

How did you handle that, use a broker or clear it yourself.?

Matt suggested drop shipping to Lynden, WA. and I go and pick them up and clear them myself, I would have to rent truck/trailer and lift equipment and would probably negate any savings.

I'm thinking direct delivery to my door and I have a neighbor with a fork lift that maybe able to assist with unloading, hopefully eliminating the need to rent lifting equipment and also would feel more comfortable with the safety of having a proper machine to move the big mill especially. I will need to check with him and see if that's an option and if his forklift has the capacity I need.

Any feedback on that would be appreciated. 

David


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## tmarks11

Kiwi Canuck said:


> Matt suggested drop shipping to Lynden, WA. and I go and pick them up and clear them myself, I would have to rent truck/trailer and lift equipment and would probably negate any savings.


If you do, I recommend you rent a drop deck trailer.  Makes it much easier to get the machines off, because you can lower the trailer bed completely to the ground with the built in hydraulic lift.  $85-110 per day from sunbelt rental.

That makes it so you just run your pallet jack underneath the pallet and roll it off the trailer.... unless the $#%^& pallet is built out of 2x4 which your pallet jack won't fit into, so then you have to pick it up with a gantry crane so you can block up the pallet enough to get the pallet jack under, and it take 90 minutes to unload instead of the glorious 30 sec your brain said it would take...because you have to push everything in the garage up against the far wall to get room to put the trailer underneath the gantry crane...

... true story....


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## Kiwi Canuck

Quick update, I have not completed my order yet, Matt is still confirming costs to ship to Vancouver BC versus Lynden WA. Hope to get that info by Monday.

I have also been flip flopping back and forward on the machines.

I've spent the last week reading and researching both the Taiwan and Chinese Machines,  taking my time to re-read everything now that I am able to absorb the info better.

Just to complete one thing on my to-do list before the end of the month, I did go out and buy a welder, I got a Miller 215 Multimatic Mig/Tig & Stick machine, runs on 110 or 220.

Got it up and running yesterday and ran a few beads just to make sure it worked, which it did. I've not welded in 25 years or so, but I did OK for my first time on a Mig machine.

I didn't buy the optional TIG torch setup but will probably get it tomorrow as Miller have a rebate program that I can take advantage of and get a few $$ off. 

Hope to have something to report back shortly on my order with PM.

David


PS Tmarks, thanks for the response, I know about those trailers as many in the Security Safe business use them, not sure if Sunbelt rent them here in Canada but will check if I need one. (we usually just get Boom & Scissor lifts from them)


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## Subwayrocket

Have you Tig welded before ? If not, i'd hold off on the torch option , use the mig while you learn your mill and lathe . There is quite a learning curve with Tig . Would be like buying a guitar and expecting to know how to play it ...no, you've got to put seat time in . 
Same with TIG . Give some serious thought to that PM935 if you can swing it .  And two guys can lift and set any of those mills with an inexpensive 2 Ton engine crane and some GOOD straps. Plan a whole day to break down the pallet, clean the machine, etc . Good luck with your mill and Lathes !


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## Kiwi Canuck

Subwayrocket said:


> Have you Tig welded before ? If not, i'd hold off on the torch option , use the mig while you learn your mill and lathe . There is quite a learning curve with Tig . Would be like buying a guitar and expecting to know how to play it ...no, you've got to put seat time in .
> Same with TIG . Give some serious thought to that PM935 if you can swing it .  And two guys can lift and set any of those mills with an inexpensive 2 Ton engine crane and some GOOD straps. Plan a whole day to break down the pallet, clean the machine, etc . Good luck with your mill and Lathes !



Subway, no I haven't TIG welded before but one of my employees is an ex welder and will help me get setup once I'm ready.

I will have quite a bit too learn over the next few months just getting up to speed with the new equipment, fortunate to have some friends who are capable and can assist with the basics as I get setup.

I have been able to pick up most trade related skills reasonably quickly over the years and feel confident with welding, but understand TIG welding requires a lot more skill than MIG does.

Thanks for the vote for the PM935 as well.



Cheers,

David


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## Kiwi Canuck

I placed my order with QMT today for the PM935TS and PM1340GT, both Single Phase machines.

They will be delivered to Vancouver BC directly from Taiwan.

So I'm now done with the research part unless I change my mind and upgrade to 3 phase or variable speed on either of the machines.

Estimated delivery is a 2-3 months, but based on previous postings it could be more, I'm OK with that but hope to have them by mid March 2017.

David


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## brino

Congratulations David, those look like great choices.

I don't know that I could stand the wait!

-brino


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## tmarks11

Kiwi Canuck said:


> I placed my order with QMT today for the PM935TS and PM1340GT... They will be delivered to Vancouver BC directly from Taiwan.



awesome choices.

What kind of an advantage does that give you for import duties?  It is great that Matt is able to arrange that.


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## Kiwi Canuck

tmarks11 said:


> awesome choices.
> 
> What kind of an advantage does that give you for import duties?  It is great that Matt is able to arrange that.



As far as I can tell duty into USA is about 5% and Canada has Zero duty for these machines from Asia. (Matt does not get the duty back when he re-exports them)

There are other costs involved to have machines imported directly into Canada (CSA Labeling) but still a little less overall.

David.


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## Subwayrocket

I guess I ordered mine at a good time ... I placed the order thursday and requested it be delivered on Tues , my day off . Tuesday afternoon she was here . I'm only about 6 hrs from Matt ...I feel for ya, having to wait til MARCH ! 
Here is a link to a guy i bought lube from . He will make any combination of sizes/bottles you want...but your local buds might have a place for you to get it too . 

These are the lubes for that mill , can use these or other brands equivalents 
http://r.ebay.com/wmFduq

Good luck with it and welcome to the forum !


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## Kiwi Canuck

Subwayrocket, thanks for the link on the lubricants and yes March is a ways off but I've got my hands full with plenty to do and learn before the machines show up.

Congratulations on getting your new machine, that is a quick delivery time.

David.


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## Kiwi Canuck

I've been busy since I ordered my machines, reading and re-reading all the posts on VFD's and the advantages of going that route.
So I emailed Matt and asked if it was too late to make a change to 3 phase and he said not too late, but you only get one change, no going back once the change is made.

I gave it some thought for a few days and have changed my order to 3 phase for both machines.

I ordered the Hitachi VFD's from QMT along with a few extras including tooling and an Aloris QCTP and a few Aloris holders.

I'm comfortable with the actual re-wiring of the machines as I'm familiar with building controller cabinets and Guard Control Stations for Security Booths which involve complex custom designs for Access Control, Barrier Gates/Arms, Intercom and CCTV Systems, well I did when I was on the tools, now I just assist with the concepts but still comfortable on the tools when required/needed.

I will need plenty of help with the programming of the VFD's I suspect and which switches/diodes and resistors to use.
We normally use Allen Bradley or Telemecanique switches and relays so I'll need to get the part numbers and see if I can buy locally through my distributors here.

Also placed an order for an Easson ES-8A 3 axis DRO from Ali Express/ Shenzhen Siton with GS10 Glass scales. It was $435.00 US  with free shipping which seems like a pretty good price.

I was tempted by the ES-12 with digital colour display which was $595 but I needed to keep the budget in check.
I'll order the 2 axis one for the lathe once I get the 3 axis one here and I can verify it's the real thing, it should be here a week or so.

David


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## tmarks11

Kiwi Canuck said:


> I gave it some thought for a few days and have changed my order to 3 phase for both machines. I ordered the Hitachi VFD's from QMT



Good choice, that is what I did for my PM935TV.  My reasoning is that it is about the same price (as substituting in a 1 phase motor), and you can make the spindle electronically brake, which is really nice to have.


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## Hawkeye

I have a mill/drill and my big lathe running off one VFD. You're going to love the control. I have a couple of optical tachs, but the main ones have built-in tachs. If you want to have a bit of fun, check out Mach-Tach. It's a kit that you solder together and install. It can display in RPM or IPS at the push of a button. This is the original VFD control panel. It got rebuilt after the fire. When you switch between Mill and Lathe, the tach input switches too.


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## ch2co

I really like my little  Mach-Tach since I added an update kit to it so it works along with my VFD.  I only have a little 10-22, but the VFD is worth its
weight in gold. 
Hawkeye, Your VFD to MILL/LATHE switch box is the cats meow. I'll probably will just get another VFD if and when I get a bigger mill that has an
actual AC motor on it. 
Kiwi Canuck:  An Ausi Canadian ? or just a southerner.  Man you could jut about sneeze and end up in Washington state. 
I love BC. Some of my best vacations were in various parts of BC. The best of Colorado without the **** people. Maybe even better?

Chuck the grumpy old guy


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Hawkeye said:


> I have a mill/drill and my big lathe running off one VFD. You're going to love the control. I have a couple of optical tachs, but the main ones have built-in tachs. If you want to have a bit of fun, check out Mach-Tach. It's a kit that you solder together and install. It can display in RPM or IPS at the push of a button. This is the original VFD control panel. It got rebuilt after the fire. When you switch between Mill and Lathe, the tach input switches too.
> View attachment 141191



Nice job on the control box, (Very Canadian with those Robertson Screws) I will probably order a couple of the basic tachs from ebay to start unless I can get my head around the Mach-Tach and what's involved before the machines show up.
I figure I will have a pretty steep learning curve on other stuff to get up to speed with, so I'll just putt along till I'm comfortable with my decisions.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

ch2co said:


> I really like my little  Mach-Tach since I added an update kit to it so it works along with my VFD.  I only have a little 10-22, but the VFD is worth its
> weight in gold.
> Hawkeye, Your VFD to MILL/LATHE switch box is the cats meow. I'll probably will just get another VFD if and when I get a bigger mill that has an
> actual AC motor on it.
> Kiwi Canuck:  An Ausi Canadian ? or just a southerner.  Man you could jut about sneeze and end up in Washington state.
> I love BC. Some of my best vacations were in various parts of BC. The best of Colorado without the **** people. Maybe even better?
> 
> Chuck the grumpy old guy



Chuck, thanks for chiming in, the user name "Kiwi Canuck", comes from a Kiwi (New Zealander) living in Canada, (no not an Aussie, just neighbours, only 1,200 miles of ocean between us)

I actually live closer to the border with Washington State than the City of Vancouver, so I can get to my mailbox in Lynden WA in the same time it takes to get to Vancouver, and yes I agree it's a great place.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

I heard the Easson DRO was delivered to my shop today so I'll see what I got on Monday as I'm working from home today.

Also ordered (2) 500 Watt braking resistors from Hong Kong, one 33 Ohm for the Mill and  one 47 ohm unit for the Lathe, they should be here next week as well.


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## Hawkeye

Since the VFD runs two machines, the control box is on a telescoping arm than pivots toward the machine in use. Turn a selector switch on the VFD housing and control and tach source are switched to the appropriate unit. And just so there are no accidents, the switch won't operate until there is no output from the VFD.


----------



## zmotorsports

Sorry, I'm a little late to the party but good choice on machines.

Funny you mentioned about not substituting quality in anything you have purchased.  My son used my exact words against me when I was waffling over my machine choices as well.  

You know which machines I ended up with and haven't looked back since.

Looking forward to seeing them set up in your shop.

Mike.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

zmotorsports said:


> Sorry, I'm a little late to the party but good choice on machines.
> 
> Funny you mentioned about not substituting quality in anything you have purchased.  My son used my exact words against me when I was waffling over my machine choices as well.
> 
> You know which machines I ended up with and haven't looked back since.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing them set up in your shop.
> 
> Mike.



Hey Mike, thanks for dropping in and commenting, haven't seen you posting online for a while.

So thank you for your time to detail your experience with the 2 machines you purchased from QMT,  I really enjoyed reading your posts about the setup and the videos you have posted are fantastic.

I found out about this forum from following you on Garage Journal, which is another great forum that has helped me upgrade my tool collection and finding/buying new tools I didn't even know I needed.

Look forward to seeing your new shop, are you having it built or is it an existing building? Can't remember if you mentioned that.

Cheers and Merry Christmas to you and family,

David.


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## Kiwi Canuck

Mike, I see you have the Easson ES8A 3 Axis DRO installed on your PM-935, did you document the install?

Would be nice to see how you did that as I will be doing the same once my machines arrive, mostly need guidance with the 'Z' Knee Axis install, the others look pretty straight forward.

David


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## Kiwi Canuck

OK time for a small update.

I received my Easson ES-8A 3 Axis DRO that I ordered from here.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Eas..._1&btsid=9ced36fd-c896-4b2a-bb36-56933f43f656

The shipment came by DHL in 2 separate packages, the display showed up about 10-12 days before the Scales.

I ordered the standard Glass Scales (GS10's) for my PM-935TS Mill, hopefully I ordered the correct lengths, 650mm for the "X" Axis, 350mm for "Y", & 400mm for "Z" Axis.

By ordering both DRO's for the Mill and Lathe directly from Asia and installing them myself I will have a bit extra to spend on tooling or beer, so justified in my mind for the extra effort.

I have the 2 Axis DRO for the PM 1340GT lathe on order from the same vendor and went with the 200mm GS11 scale for the cross slide, and 1000mm GS10 scale for the "Z" Axis.

I was a bit surprised at how big the Easson ES-8A Display is, it's beefy and surprisingly heavy duty. Wasn't expecting it to be that substantial.

After powering it up and playing around with it I was really pleased, pretty intuitive and the manual is basic but adequate, I can see this being a great addition to the new PM-935 Mill.

Still need to order all the parts for the VFD conversion, I've book marked all the posts but it's been a while since I read them so will need to go over them again.

Still waiting on the Braking Resistors I ordered from Hong Kong, shipped about 3-4 weeks ago so should be here soon. 

Double checked the email from Matt to confirm the dates he estimated, looks like mid March is still the target for my machines.


On another note that has been a bit difficult to deal with as it involves a family friend, as he died as a result of a dirt bike accident last year and left a wife with 2 young boys.

His dad is starting to sell off his bikes, machines and tools and they finally called me to come over to help.

I didn't want to seem like I was over there to take advantage of them in a difficult time so I waited to be asked.

Unfortunately a lot of his good machines were already gone along with almost every piece of tooling, the Taiwan made 14x40 lathe is still there but not much tooling left for it.

He has a few Honda Motorcycles, an RC30 IIRC that Joey Dunlop raced at one time and a few others bikes including one he custom built, he was a road racer and messed around on dirt bikes but never did anything halfway, always full on with the very best gear and equipment, so he has some money tied up in his stuff.

I'm not much help on the bikes as I raced Suzuki's in the late 70's and really have never been involved with Honda's especially the late 80's early 90's.

I may help with the lathe and help tidy up the shop so they can sort out what stays and what they want to sell.

Tough times but it was good to spend some time with his Dad who I'd never really got to connect with before, he's also a Honda guy and rides a Gold Wing and got to hear about his stories of when he rode across Australia on a Honda Shadow Cruiser with his wife a few years back.

A bit off topic but just wanted to talk about this here as Clint was one of the guys that motivated me into getting my own machines and I spent a bit of time with him in his shop before his accident.

Take care.

David.


----------



## keenlyside

Got to treat every day like the gift it is. I am very sorry for the family and friends.

Cheers

John


----------



## HBilly1022

David,

Sorry to hear about your friend. Must be really hard on his wife and boys. My condolences to them and best wishes for their future.

My son also lost a good friend last year, to a Quading accident and he left a wife and young ones behind. Very sad!! 

It's odd how life can take a profound change in a split second. On Dec 5 my wife had a stroke and woke up paralyzed down the right side from mid abdomen to her toes. After 10 days in the hospital and a neck fusion surgery she is now home on the road to recovery. Our lives have been turned upside down as a result. The prognosis is good but the recovery is expected to take about one year.

Sent you a PM

John


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

John, thanks for your message, so true that we should remember to make the most of each day and live the best life we can.

Clint sure did live life to the fullest.

BTW welcome to the site, looks like you just joined recently.

David


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

HBilly1022 said:


> David,
> 
> Sorry to hear about your friend. Must be really hard on his wife and boys. My condolences to them and best wishes for their future.
> 
> My son also lost a good friend last year, to a Quading accident and he left a wife and young ones behind. Very sad!!
> 
> It's odd how life can take a profound change in a split second. On Dec 5 my wife had a stroke and woke up paralyzed down the right side from mid abdomen to her toes. After 10 days in the hospital and a neck fusion surgery she is now home on the road to recovery. Our lives have been turned upside down as a result. The prognosis is good but the recovery is expected to take about one year.
> 
> Sent you a PM
> 
> John



John, thanks for your message and I really hope your wife is on the road to recovery, strokes can be tough to recover from but fortunately they do have some good resources out there for assistance.
A guy who worked for me for 20 years had a stroke 3 years ago and he is just now coming to grips with his new reality, he lost his peripheral vision and mobility in his right side, so I know the journey all too well.

I send my well wishes to your wife and trust she has the fortitude to get back to full mobility.

David.


----------



## HBilly1022

Kiwi Canuck said:


> John, thanks for your message and I really hope your wife is on the road to recovery, strokes can be tough to recover from but fortunately they do have some good resources out there for assistance.
> A guy who worked for me for 20 years had a stroke 3 years ago and he is just now coming to grips with his new reality, he lost his peripheral vision and mobility in his right side, so I know the journey all too well.
> 
> I send my well wishes to your wife and trust she has the fortitude to get back to full mobility.
> 
> David.



David, thanks for the well wishes. My wife definitely has the fortitude to get better. She will make it happen, just not sure how fast. 

Back to lathes. I am still working through some issues with the King 1236 with the most irritating one being that the TS keeps moving after it has been locked down. It's a nuisance when drilling but can destroy a part if it moves when it is supposed to be supporting the end of a long piece, which has occurred. On a positive note, the Norton change gear levers are much easier to move now and can be changed with one hand.

Maybe by the time you get your lathe, I will have worked through the issues with this one (or returned it, lol).


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

HBilly1022 said:


> David, thanks for the well wishes. My wife definitely has the fortitude to get better. She will make it happen, just not sure how fast.
> 
> Back to lathes. I am still working through some issues with the King 1236 with the most irritating one being that the TS keeps moving after it has been locked down. It's a nuisance when drilling but can destroy a part if it moves when it is supposed to be supporting the end of a long piece, which has occurred. On a positive note, the Norton change gear levers are much easier to move now and can be changed with one hand.
> 
> Maybe by the time you get your lathe, I will have worked through the issues with this one (or returned it, lol).



John, you certainly have patience to work through the issues with your lathe, and that must be frustrating to have the TS moving after locking it down.

Good to hear your wife is committed to the work ahead of her, as I've known of a few people that just give up as they are working hard but not getting the progress they think they should.

BTW I did get some photos of the 14 X 40 Taiwan lathe, labelled as 'Advance' it was sold by Thomas Skinner & Son (still in business locally) and manufactured by Chiu Ting Machinery Company, (thought it was "Sum Ting Wong" but they're a different outfit) I googled Chiu Ting and looks like they only make wood working equipment now.

I'm going to recommend that he try selling it on CL locally unless you want to take a look at it, let me know if you want to pursue it, probably $3,500 would buy it. (i think it should list on CL for $4,200)

Comes with a 6" 3 jaw, a 6 or 8" 4 jaw, still in cardboard box, (so I didn't open it), steady rest, has a Norton Style Gear Box, QCTP and a small amount of tooling, including a live center, very lightly used mostly cutting Aluminum in hobby shop. (also has a threading dial which I found in a drawer after taking the pictures)

Just wonder about parts if ever needed, not sure what it other machine parts would fit.

Let me know if you're interested, they are not in a hurry to sell but would like to know either way in a week or so.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

I almost forgot, the DHL guy stopped at my shop just as I was leaving this afternoon and had 2 parcels for me, looks like I got my Easson ES-8A DRO for the lathe, both the display and scales arrived together this time.
I'll open them in the AM to make sure they are all OK. 

David.


----------



## HBilly1022

Congrats on the DRO.

PM sent re the lathe.


----------



## zmotorsports

Kiwi Canuck said:


> Hey Mike, thanks for dropping in and commenting, haven't seen you posting online for a while.
> 
> So thank you for your time to detail your experience with the 2 machines you purchased from QMT,  I really enjoyed reading your posts about the setup and the videos you have posted are fantastic.
> 
> I found out about this forum from following you on Garage Journal, which is another great forum that has helped me upgrade my tool collection and finding/buying new tools I didn't even know I needed.
> 
> Look forward to seeing your new shop, are you having it built or is it an existing building? Can't remember if you mentioned that.
> 
> Cheers and Merry Christmas to you and family,
> 
> David.



I am glad you found the postings and videos helpful and thanks for following along on garagejournal.  I tend to spend a bit more time over there lately but I will have to pop in here more regularly.

Sorry to hear about your friend's passing.

As for my new shop, I am having most of it built by a contractor friend and then I will be doing electrical and much of the finishing, more than likely.

Mike.


----------



## johnnyc14

Kiwi Canuck said:


> John, you certainly have patience to work through the issues with your lathe, and that must be frustrating to have the TS moving after locking it down.
> 
> Good to hear your wife is committed to the work ahead of her, as I've known of a few people that just give up as they are working hard but not getting the progress they think they should.
> 
> BTW I did get some photos of the 14 X 40 Taiwan lathe, labelled as 'Advance' it was sold by Thomas Skinner & Son (still in business locally) and manufactured by Chiu Ting Machinery Company, (thought it was "Sum Ting Wong" but they're a different outfit) I googled Chiu Ting and looks like they only make wood working equipment now.
> 
> I'm going to recommend that he try selling it on CL locally unless you want to take a look at it, let me know if you want to pursue it, probably $3,500 would buy it. (i think it should list on CL for $4,200)
> 
> Comes with a 6" 3 jaw, a 6 or 8" 4 jaw, still in cardboard box, (so I didn't open it), steady rest, has a Norton Style Gear Box, QCTP and a small amount of tooling, including a live center, very lightly used mostly cutting Aluminum in hobby shop. (also has a threading dial which I found in a drawer after taking the pictures)
> 
> Just wonder about parts if ever needed, not sure what it other machine parts would fit.
> 
> Let me know if you're interested, they are not in a hurry to sell but would like to know either way in a week or so.
> 
> 
> David, that lathe looks exactly like mine that is branded CanTek. Parts are still available through Arkhurst Machinery.
> 
> http://www.akhurst.com/
> 
> They have branch offices in Edmonton and Vancouver, my machine was purchased new from their Edmonton branch. Thomas Skinner has offices in Edmonton and Vancouver also and I would think you still get parts from them also. I have a PDF copy of the manual, if you need one I can email it to you.
> 
> My condolences regarding your friends passing, tough times indeed


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

johnnyc14 said:


> David, that lathe looks exactly like mine that is branded CanTek. Parts are still available through Arkhurst Machinery.
> 
> http://www.akhurst.com/
> 
> They have branch offices in Edmonton and Vancouver, my machine was purchased new from their Edmonton branch. Thomas Skinner has offices in Edmonton and Vancouver also and I would think you still get parts from them also. I have a PDF copy of the manual, if you need one I can email it to you.
> 
> My condolences regarding your friends passing, tough times indeed.



John, thanks for the message.

That is excellent news on the manual, please forward it to davidb at citiloc dot com.

How is this lathe in your opinion? Any info to assist me in selling it would be appreciated.

HBilly1022 (also John) asked about metric threading on this lathe, does it require an extra set of gears or are they already installed?
I haven't looked in the pedestal cabinet very thoroughly yet, as they maybe in there.

Regards,

David


----------



## johnnyc14

Gunrunner you need to order a set of these for the Z axis hand crank. Bill did you just spit coffee on your monitor? :rofl:

View attachment 253356


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

johnnyc14 said:


> Metric threading requires changing a gear.
> 
> It's a pretty decent lathe, very similar in fact to the GT1340 you ordered.
> 
> I sent you the manual and the treading charts are in it.
> 
> Cheers, John



Thanks John, got the email, yes I agree it's probably very similar to the lathe I ordered.

I'll need to get back over there and see if the extra gears for metric threading are stashed somewhere.

I was torn between buying Clint's machines and ordering from PM and decided it was better to just buy my own new machines from QMT.

Cheers,

David


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

johnnyc14 said:


> David, that lathe looks exactly like mine that is branded CanTek. Parts are still available through Arkhurst Machinery.
> 
> http://www.akhurst.com/
> 
> They have branch offices in Edmonton and Vancouver, my machine was purchased new from their Edmonton branch. Thomas Skinner has offices in Edmonton and Vancouver also and I would think you still get parts from them also. I have a PDF copy of the manual, if you need one I can email it to you.
> 
> My condolences regarding your friends passing, tough times indeed.
> 
> 
> View attachment 224410
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> John, thanks to you I was able to order new half nuts for the CT1440 machine, as one of the casting was broken on the lower piece and Akhurst Machinery had them in stock in Edmonton, they overnighted them to Vancouver and offered to deliver no charge to my shop. I was near the Delta branch on other business so I dropped in and picked them up.
> 
> Unbelievable service and all for a $38.00 part.
> 
> So thank you for the referral  and nice for it to work out so well.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> David


----------



## johnnyc14

Glad that worked out David. 

John


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Quick update, I got the new half nut holders from Akhurst machinery as one was broken on the CT1440 and the next day sold the lathe for Clint's family, listed on CL sold same day full asking price.

Also got an email from QMT, yesterday, my machines ship from Taiwan Feb 20th, I think it's 3 weeks delivery from then.

Better get busy and get all my parts for the VFD install ready.

David.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Just got a call from the broker to let me know the ship arrives this weekend, and the machines will be available sometime next week at the warehouse.
They will clear the shipment and arrange delivery all for about $95.00 which is reasonable.
There will be a few other charges related to the port fees and port to warehouse transport so I'll post those details after I get the info.
I am still waiting on the VFD's from QMT so will not be ready to make chips for a while, even though it took more than 3 months since I ordered the machines the time has gone quickly, and I'll need to hustle to get everything ready for delivery next week.

My work has been very busy and I'm in the middle of a motorcycle rebuild so plenty to keep me occupied lately.
David


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

The last few days have been almost completely consumed with getting my machines through customs and having them delivered.

Certainly not all my time but certainly all my energy and focus has been on making this as smooth as possible.

The part I was most concerned about turned out to be the least stressful.

It really started last week, maybe Friday when I was told the shipment should be cleared and ready for delivery but it was not until late last night that the shipment was cleared by customs, due to the broker not having done this type of equipment before.

The invoice has the machine broken down into all the separate parts and options so they needed to find all the import codes for each piece, should have taken 2 hours but ended up taking days for some unknown reason.

He was the guy responsible for the container that my shipment arrived in, so I thought I'll use him rather than our usual broker, it was a struggle hearing every day that it will clear tomorrow.

I'm sure if he needed to clear another shipment like this one he would be awesome now that he's learned the way on this shipment.

I had a few trucking firms looking at helping with the delivery from the warehouse but each time I gave the weights & sizes they all said I'll need a crane truck, they will not fit on a tailgate, it's too unsafe to try.
Quotes for a crane truck was coming in at $600 plus and I was really resistant to pay that much until the broker found a guy who would do it for $120 delivered with a 5 ton truck with a tail gate.

I was set but just before all this went down the broker informs me I'll need to wire the funds to his bank in Toronto before they will release the shipment, I was about to loose a wheel when he told me that.
I would need to drive to the city and back just to pay the bill, as they will not take CC or cheques and I didn't want to try from a branch that doesn't know me and my account manager was out of town.

He finally emailed me and suggested I could take cash to any HSBC bank branch and direct deposit into their account, which I did right away.

So the truck is on the way and the dispatcher calls me to tell me they are coming in 1 hour, then 15 mins later he calls back, no go, too unsafe, driver has refused to deliver, far canal, can it get any more frustrating.
I was about to loose it again as I had arranged a crane truck on standby but cancelled when they found this new guy to take care of it.

As I'm in the Lock business and we need to move safe's occasionally so I called on a friend who moves a lot of safes and he recommended someone with a Flatbed fitted with a HIAB crane, he was able to do the pickup within an hour but had no pallet jack on board.

Best part was he was half the price of the previous quotes as well.

They showed up right when they said they would and did an awesome job getting them into the shop safely.

When I get Photobucket working I'll post some pictures.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck




----------



## Kiwi Canuck




----------



## johnnyc14

Congrats David. I'm glad you got all the details ironed out. Look lik crates arrived unmolesred. The  delivery truck crew did a nice job setting the machines right on the garage floor for you with no scary power tailgate/pallet Jack balancing act. Looking forward to seeing them in action.

John


----------



## brino

Congratulations!

Thanks for all the delivery pictures, it's like being there.

Having those tall garage doors worked out very well for you!

-brino


----------



## keenlyside

Hi David

Very exciting. Nice to see the machines have arrived and they look great. Hope you have an awesome weekend drooling on them.. I mean cleaning them of course!

Cheers

John


----------



## MonkMan

Great Pictures, thanks and congrats.
Was the chuck shield an option? I have not seen that before.


----------



## qualitymachinetools

Glad they are in place, looks good! Now you know what we deal with every day ha ha actually US customs is not bad, but every once in a while it turns in to a headache for no good reason. I love it when they randomly pull a shipment for an inspection, costs us an extra $500 + and at least a few days, for nothing more than a crate that was broken open and a piece of green tape that says inspected by US customs. 
 Or even better when the shipments come in through the west coast of Canada to Prince Rupert I think it is, and then to us by rail, just passing through Canada, and the Canada customs decides to flag it for a wood packaging inspection. An extra $1400 and at least a week, one time we had one delayed by a month just for that. Sometimes Canada Customs can be a real headache. 

 Anyway, now the fun part starts!

 Also Monkman, the chip shield was to make it CSA Approved. We have them, but I think they get in the way, first thing most people used to take off ha ha.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

johnnyc14 said:


> Congrats David. I'm glad you got all the details ironed out. Look lik crates arrived unmolesred. The  delivery truck crew did a nice job setting the machines right on the garage floor for you with no scary power tailgate/pallet Jack balancing act. Looking forward to seeing them in action.
> 
> John



Thanks John, yes the crates looked OK except where Canada Customs pulled a few boards off to inspect the machines.
If I had been thinking I would have got the truckers to help with removing the lathe off the pallet as well as the mill, would have taken them an extra 5 minutes but I was just happy to get them in the shop at the time and wasn't thinking ahead.



brino said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> Thanks for all the delivery pictures, it's like being there.
> 
> Having those tall garage doors worked out very well for you!
> 
> -brino



Yes the 10' X 10" doors on the shop allowed them to get the machines in with just the boom extended, it was pretty close to the top of the door but Steve the crane operator was a pro and got it within an inch or so without touching it.



keenlyside said:


> Hi David
> 
> Very exciting. Nice to see the machines have arrived and they look great. Hope you have an awesome weekend drooling on them.. I mean cleaning them of course!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> John



John, thanks for your comments, I will have some info for you and I'll pass on the truckers contact details if you want as they were excellent.

The costs to clear the machines are as follows,
Destination Handling Charge $95.00
Brokerage Fee $95.00
Customs Exam Fee for LCL Shipment $45.00
Dock Fee $45.00
Warehouse Storage fee for extra 2 days $60.00
Truck Delivery $330.00 Richmond to Langley approx. 65 KM

TOTAL $670.00

No Duty but taxes extra.



MonkMan said:


> Great Pictures, thanks and congrats.
> Was the chuck shield an option? I have not seen that before.



Hi MonkMan, I needed to have the machines CSA approved as they were shipped direct to Vancouver from Taiwan, so I got a couple of extra items that the USA machines don't get, not sure if I'l leave the plexi guard on or not, probably get rid of it if it get in the way.

Cheers David.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

qualitymachinetools said:


> Glad they are in place, looks good! Now you know what we deal with every day ha ha actually US customs is not bad, but every once in a while it turns in to a headache for no good reason. I love it when they randomly pull a shipment for an inspection, costs us an extra $500 + and at least a few days, for nothing more than a crate that was broken open and a piece of green tape that says inspected by US customs.
> Or even better when the shipments come in through the west coast of Canada to Prince Rupert I think it is, and then to us by rail, just passing through Canada, and the Canada customs decides to flag it for a wood packaging inspection. An extra $1400 and at least a week, one time we had one delayed by a month just for that. Sometimes Canada Customs can be a real headache.
> 
> Anyway, now the fun part starts!
> 
> Also Monkman, the chip shield was to make it CSA Approved. We have them, but I think they get in the way, first thing most people used to take off ha ha.



Matt, thanks for all your help with getting the paperwork sorted to assist with the Customs Clearance, really appreciated the quick response.

If I did this again I would have you ship direct to me or to my freight guy in Lynden WA and I would go get them and clear them myself.

Yes nice to get the machines here and in the shop at last, but they still have another 20 -30ft to go before they are in their final resting spot, I'll post up some pictures on how that went shortly.

David.


----------



## Hawkeye

Congrats, David. Still a few steps to go, then the chips will fly. Did you get the bike done? Hard to think straight when you have two big but unrelated projects on the go at the same time.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

So I needed to move the machines into my part of the shop as I have a friend using my shop for car and boat storage for another 6 months.
I had been looking at CL for an engine hoist but never got my act together to go buy one and when I finally needed one today there was almost nothing available so I went and bought a new one.

Not knowing much about them I bought the Red one.

The workmanship on these hoists are OK but not great, I needed to thread chase most of the tapped holes but the rest went together pretty well.











Here is the first test for the new hoist, once I got the mill up off the floor the machine would not move, I was thinking maybe I should have got the Yellow one at this point as it had nylon wheels.

They are setup to push but not pull, so I used a wooden 2X4 to get it started, once I got the wheels all in the right direction I was able to manhandle it into the small room off the side of the main shop.





Now I went to work on moving the lathe which was still on the pallet and I didn't fancy chopping the pallet up as I didn't have a suitable power tool to cut it in place.

I removed the parts of the pallet that I could and slid the hoist in from the headstock end.

With the arm set to 1 Ton, I got enough reach to lift the headstock end, and it allowed me to move it toward the hoist by lifting the tailstock end by hand.

Here's how I rigged it up, I removed the chuck and used a tow strap that was 20ft long so I doubled it up and wound it around till both ends were even.











I did this until I needed to add bits of wood in the middle to hold the rear pedestal from falling through the pallet as there was still about 100lbs or so weight on that end.

Once it was free on the headstock end I had my son pull the pallet out while I straddled the pallet, held the end up and he pulled the pallet out, I was then able to lower the machine down.






Now I was able to lift from the middle with the strap wrapped around the bed and I moved the tail stock and apron outward until it was balanced.






 With the lathe being much lighter it was easier to move it into the other room beside the Mill and now I can start cleaning and getting ready to start the wiring, DRO install and setup of the machines.

Thanks for checking this out, always nice to hear that some of you are enjoying these posts.

David


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Hawkeye said:


> Congrats, David. Still a few steps to go, then the chips will fly. Did you get the bike done? Hard to think straight when you have two big but unrelated projects on the go at the same time.


Thanks Hawkeye, you mean this bike, the 1981 GS650E? this is when i picked it up in February.






Here is how it looks now, so not quite finished, ha ha.






Plenty work left to do on that one, but here's two I have finished.






David.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

The helper, my 12 year old son Alexander.






Smile, and yes I am taking pictures while you work.


----------



## BFHammer

Thanks for sharing all the pics.  Glad to see you got everything into it's temporary location.

The Suzukis look great - I didn't see the before pictures but the finished product looks awesome!


----------



## Hawkeye

Those 1000s look great. You'll have your attention divided soon enough. Start making a list of tools you want to make for the tools.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

BFHammer said:


> Thanks for sharing all the pics.  Glad to see you got everything into it's temporary location.
> 
> The Suzukis look great - I didn't see the before pictures but the finished product looks awesome!




Thanks for commenting on my thread BFHammer, my pleasure to post the pictures as it's a nice reference for myself and for  others who maybe getting these machines in the future. 

As far as the two 1980 Suzuki' GS1000S's, I did document the work on them, it's a long thread but plenty of pictures to look at if you care to.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?209217-1980-GS1000S-Reluctant-Rebuild

Cheers,

David.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

I have finally got a bit more progress on my machines.

I bought most of the parts to do the VFD conversion but was missing a few critical bits.

As I was in no hurry, so it went on the back burner until I was ready to tackle it.

The last few weeks I've been receiving packages from McMaster Carr and Automation Direct, about eight separate packages as it turns out, always one last thing I forgot, so another order.

Here is the Hubble 14" X 12' X 8" box for my PM 935TS Mill, I was going to put the fan in the bottom and vent out the top left side but I was concerned about the amount of cables I needed to bring in through the bottom of the cabinet, so I went with fan on lower left and vent top left.

That gives me plenty of room for the cables coming in the bottom but I had forgotten that I was going to install the 120VAC outlets on the lower left of the cabinet. Oh well not the first change I needed to make on the fly.

I cut two 4" holes, lots of chatter when using holes saws and it's hard to get the drill to go slow enough without grabbing and stalling, got it done after resting the drill  a few times..







I mounted the VFD a while back but now realized that I needed to move it so I flipped the back panel around and redid the mounting closer to the top left side.

The old holes should be covered by the DIN Rail.






Here is the box, almost finished the layout, I also relocated the braking resistor to the top of the cabinet as I had it mounted on the left side previously.






Another view showing the Main Power Disconnect Switch mounted on the side of the box, which will face forward.

I may install a pilot light above it at some point, so I can see if it's powered up from a distance before I leave the shop.

The 24 VDC power supply is a 60 Watt unit from Automation Direct.






Here's the control pod, just need to get this wired and mounted and labels for each switch.

The layout is as follows, 
Top - ebay tach
Top Swtiches, Left - Speed Control,     Right - Forward/Rev switch
Middle, Green _ Start,     Red - Stop
Bottom - Emergency Stop






That's about all for now.

David


----------



## Kamloopsendo

David:  I simply cut a hole in my box and placed a Plexiglass cover over the VFD.  It both shows if it's on and displays frequency as well.  I've been unable to view your prior pics as I get a message that photobucket 3rd party hosting has been temporarily disabled - Do I have to subscribe and pay Photobucket to see these images?  AND, thanks for posting this stuff. it really helps
Alex


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

You can down load this file to see the photobucket pictures, you should be able to view them with this fix until  I get around to updating them.

For Chrome.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/...nk-fix/kegnjbncdcliihbemealioapbifiaedg?hl=en

If you don't use chrome use google to find the fix for your web browser.

I now use imgbox.com as it allows hot linking for free unlike Photo Bucket that wants $400 US year.

David.


----------



## Kamloopsendo

I can see the pics, thanks for he tips.  I ordered a bunch of parts from McMaster Carr, E-bay and Automation direct to install the VFD and hook up the power supply.  Trying to source a few parts locally from our industrial suppliers - we'll see how that works out.  I already realize I missed some items.
Alex


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Progress is happening again, I was away for the month of March traveling and have finally freed up some time this weekend to get back at the machines.

I finished pulling the wire to both machines and I wired up the sub panel with two 30AMP breakers and buttoned that up.

The mill is now hardwired, but I'm trying to figure out if I can use a plug for the lathe.
It would be nice if I can unplug it if needed and I have one of those Range wall receptacles (which I'll mount overhead) and hope to use that and make a custom cable to drop down to the lathe. If that doesn't work out I'll just hardware it.

On the mill I reinstalled the VFD control box and wired up the rotary power switch and ran the power through the fuses, I just need a couple of DIN rail terminals to split the 240VAC and 120VAC so I placed an order with AD so should have those in a few days.

The control pod for the mill is not yet mounted so I'll tackle that next.

I have a small job to machine 8 brass knob guards for work so it would be nice if I can get it working soon to get those done, but I've got a backup plan if they are needed before I'm ready.
I'm really feeling comfortable wiring the mill and I have the entire thing mapped out in my head how it's all going to come together, ha ha probably just jinx myself.
Nice that Mark (MKSJ) supplied the wiring diagrams which has been a great help but the wiring routes have taken quite a bit of thought and I'm trying to make them presentable and teach my sons (13 and 14 years old) how the systems work at the same time.

I've enrolled my 14 year old to assist with the programming of the VFD, he leads his robotics team at school, does most of the high level programming and is pretty sharp when it comes to this kind of stuff, so hopefully it shouldn't be a big stretch for him to get the VFD setup and running.

I'll have some photos worth posting by next weekend.

David.


----------



## Kamloopsendo

Kiwi Canuck said:


> Progress is happening again, I was away for the month of March traveling and have finally freed up some time this weekend to get back at the machines.
> 
> I finished pulling the wire to both machines and I wired up the sub panel with two 30AMP breakers and buttoned that up.
> 
> The mill is now hardwired, but I'm trying to figure out if I can use a plug for the lathe.
> It would be nice if I can unplug it if needed and I have one of those Range wall receptacles (which I'll mount overhead) and hope to use that and make a custom cable to drop down to the lathe. If that doesn't work out I'll just hardware it.
> 
> On the mill I reinstalled the VFD control box and wired up the rotary power switch and ran the power through the fuses, I just need a couple of DIN rail terminals to split the 240VAC and 120VAC so I placed an order with AD so should have those in a few days.
> 
> The control pod for the mill is not yet mounted so I'll tackle that next.
> 
> I have a small job to machine 8 brass knob guards for work so it would be nice if I can get it working soon to get those done, but I've got a backup plan if they are needed before I'm ready.
> I'm really feeling comfortable wiring the mill and I have the entire thing mapped out in my head how it's all going to come together, ha ha probably just jinx myself.
> Nice that Mike (MSKJ) supplied the wiring diagrams which has been a great help but the wiring routes have taken quite a bit of thought and I'm trying to make them presentable and teach my sons (13 and 14 years old) how the systems work at the same time.
> 
> I've enrolled my 14 year old to assist with the programming of the VFD, he leads his robotics team at school, does most of the high level programming and is pretty sharp when it comes to this kind of stuff, so hopefully it shouldn't be a big stretch for him to get the VFD setup and running.
> 
> I'll have some photos worth posting by next weekend.
> 
> David.


David.  Reading this as I sit in O'Hare on my way back to Vancouver.  I have a bunch of stuff waiting in Sumas to pick up later this week which includes all (I HOPE!) of the stuff I need to wire up my mill.  I'll be following your progress as I'm a bit concerned about the VFD progamming issue myself.
Alex


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Kamloopsendo said:


> David.  Reading this as I sit in O'Hare on my way back to Vancouver.  I have a bunch of stuff waiting in Sumas to pick up later this week which includes all (I HOPE!) of the stuff I need to wire up my mill.  I'll be following your progress as I'm a bit concerned about the VFD progamming issue myself.
> Alex



Alex, I hope you do have all the parts and pieces needed, it's a process learning this stuff and I know I'm still not done shopping but that's half the fun.

I'll let you know how we go with the VFD programming, we will be following the template posted by Mark.

David.


----------



## Kamloopsendo

Kiwi Canuck said:


> Alex, I hope you do have all the parts and pieces needed, it's a process learning this stuff and I know I'm still not done shopping but that's half the fun.
> 
> I'll let you know how we go with the VFD programming, we will be following the template posted by Mark.
> 
> David.


David:  If Mark posted a template for this I've missed it and would appreciate a link to it sometime.  Thanks and best of luck! 
Alex


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Kamloopsendo said:


> David:  If Mark posted a template for this I've missed it and would appreciate a link to it sometime.  Thanks and best of luck!
> Alex



Post # 6

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...e-control-switches-on-a-pm1340gt-lathe.26517/


----------



## Kamloopsendo

Thanks David.  I misunderstood and thought you ment that Mark had posted one specifically for the mill with his wiring diagam.  
Alex


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Got the VFD powered up, but still a bit of wiring to get done, here's the progress so far.

I bought a few DIN rail terminal strips and I also ordered the bridging terminals from Automation Direct, the bridges mount from the front and don't take up a space. I didn't know about these things before and always made my own jumpers but these are so easy to install and use.







You can see one of the triple bridges on top of the box to the left of the blue pliers.





Got a few extra terminals, as they came in 25 packs and I wanted to use different colours for different voltages and they were pretty inexpensive so I bought a box of each colour I needed..

https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...cks/Single-level_Feed-Through_Terminal_Blocks

The wiring is all done with 10AWG solid for the incoming 240VAC & 120VAC and so I bought the terminals that can handle 24AWG to 10AWG and they work very well. (I know I don't need 10 AWG for the 120 V but I already had it left over)
I also bought a few Green/Yellow ground terminals as I needed a few extra connections and the single post is already full and I'm not done yet, there are 2 of them to the right of the fuse block.


----------



## Fallon

Kiwi Canuck said:


> I finished pulling the wire to both machines and I wired up the sub panel with two 30AMP breakers and buttoned that up.
> 
> The mill is now hardwired, but I'm trying to figure out if I can use a plug for the lathe.
> It would be nice if I can unplug it if needed and I have one of those Range wall receptacles (which I'll mount overhead) and hope to use that and make a custom cable to drop down to the lathe. If that doesn't work out I'll just hardware it.
> 
> On the mill I reinstalled the VFD control box and wired up the rotary power switch and ran the power through the fuses, I just need a couple of DIN rail terminals to split the 240VAC and 120VAC so I placed an order with AD so should have those in a few days.



Electrical plugs & disconnects should have a HP rating on them if you use them for a motor. Technically they need to be able to safely interrupt the maximum amp draw of the motor, not average or normal running amperage. So generally a disconnect or plug would be rated for noticeably less HP than the amp rating would otherwise suggest.

I'm not sure if or how a VFD is used. Breakers & fuses dont have this issue as they are designed to be able to open at most any amp rating over when they trip. And if a breaker or fuse is underrated it will just safely trip.

I ended up ordering my disconnects online as neither HD or Lowes had any HP rated disconnects. I ran 30@ worth of wiring over to the corner next to my lathe. I have the disconnect there with a 15@ slow blow fuse in it. Im all set to hard wire the lathe in, but have been busy & sick the past month or 2 & haven't been able to wrap the install up. So in theory I can drop my future mill into the same circuit & attach my extra disconnect with an appropriate fuse. I likely won't be able to run both the lathe & mill at the same. But it's only me in the shop so I doubt I could pull that off safely even if I had the electrical power to do so.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Fallon said:


> Electrical plugs & disconnects should have a HP rating on them if you use them for a motor. Technically they need to be able to safely interrupt the maximum amp draw of the motor, not average or normal running amperage. So generally a disconnect or plug would be rated for noticeably less HP than the amp rating would otherwise suggest.
> 
> I'm not sure if or how a VFD is used. Breakers & fuses dont have this issue as they are designed to be able to open at most any amp rating over when they trip. And if a breaker or fuse is underrated it will just safely trip.
> 
> I ended up ordering my disconnects online as neither HD or Lowes had any HP rated disconnects. I ran 30@ worth of wiring over to the corner next to my lathe. I have the disconnect there with a 15@ slow blow fuse in it. Im all set to hard wire the lathe in, but have been busy & sick the past month or 2 & haven't been able to wrap the install up. So in theory I can drop my future mill into the same circuit & attach my extra disconnect with an appropriate fuse. I likely won't be able to run both the lathe & mill at the same. But it's only me in the shop so I doubt I could pull that off safely even if I had the electrical power to do so.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk




Fallon, thanks for your response, I'll need to find a plug and socket with a suitable rating, so I'll need to do some research on what I can use.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

In the meantime I have been finishing up the Control Pod.

I found some multi conductor shielded cable in 22AWG for the Control Pod at my work which will work perfectly.

I did buy some 6C 18AWG wire from Automation Direct, for the control buttons, but this cable will work for the controls plus the speed pot and tach, so I've decided to use it instead.
















I just remembered I need to find the 24VDC - 12VDC converter I purchased to power the Tach, as I haven't allowed for that on the install yet, should be fun finding a space for it without cluttering any of the other devices or wiring.






That's about all for today, hope to get the VFD programming finished tomorrow.

David


----------



## Z2V

David, very nice work. Looks great!


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Kamloopsendo said:


> Thanks David.  I misunderstood and thought you ment that Mark had posted one specifically for the mill with his wiring diagam.
> Alex


Alex, Mark did send me the parameters for the Mill so I'll post it here later tonight.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Z2V said:


> David, very nice work. Looks great!



Thank you Z2V, for the kind comments.

It's taken way longer than it should have but I finally got the Mill running this afternoon.

Mark (MKSJ) stepped up to help again, I had my wiring barse ackwards and a few minor programming issues, minor stuff but enough to prevent all the functions from working.

My son John, finally found an issue with my wiring with the Forward/Reverse switch and the way I installed the diode just as Mark sent the same info to us.






Nice to finally get the machine running.






Without this site and the kind help of members here I doubt I would have attempted the VFD conversion let alone completed it successfully, so thanks to those who have posted their builds here for others to learn from, and a very big thank you to Mark Jacobs.

David.


----------



## Kamloopsendo

Kiwi Canuck said:


> Alex, Mark did send me the parameters for the Mill so I'll post it here later tonight.


Thanks so much David, I got back on Thursday from Sumas with a couple of  big boxes from Automation Direct, a Vise from Kurt (their cosmetic 2nd for $485 shipped to Sumas and I can't see what the "cosmetic issue is) and a bunch of odds 'n sods.  - I think (???)  I have the stuff I need pretty well nailed.  I liked your idea of using different colour blocks for different voltages and yes they're cheap but it is another $100 or so and I have to make another order to get the other colours so think mine are all going to be the same colour.
Thanks again.
Alex


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Here is the Mill setup doc provided by Mark Jacobs.


----------



## Kamloopsendo

Kiwi Canuck said:


> Thank you Z2V, for the kind comments.
> 
> It's taken way longer than it should have but I finally got the Mill running this afternoon.
> 
> Mark (MKSJ) stepped up to help again, I had my wiring barse ackwards and a few minor programming issues, minor stuff but enough to prevent all the functions from working.
> 
> My son John, finally found an issue with my wiring with the Forward/Reverse switch and the way I installed the diode just as Mark sent the same info to us.
> 
> View attachment 266409
> 
> Nice to finally get the machine running.
> 
> View attachment 266410
> 
> 
> Without this site and the kind help of members here I doubt I would have attempted the VFD conversion let alone completed it successfully, so thanks to those who have posted their builds here for others to learn from, and a very big thank you to Mark Jacobs.
> 
> David.


Have to agree with your comments about the site David,  Without the help from the people on this site and in my case in particular Mark Jacobs there is NO way I'd be trying set up this equipment the way I am.  It's both fun and a very educational experience.  I paid a small fortune to have the power supply box for my lathe built "professionally" and realized with some guidance from guys on the site such as you, and Mark and Chevy I can build my own set up for less money and more "EGO" satisfaction and actually have a bit of understanding of what's going on which I never would have developed without this process.
Alex


----------



## Kamloopsendo

Kiwi Canuck said:


> Thank you Z2V, for the kind comments.
> 
> It's taken way longer than it should have but I finally got the Mill running this afternoon.
> 
> Mark (MKSJ) stepped up to help again, I had my wiring barse ackwards and a few minor programming issues, minor stuff but enough to prevent all the functions from working.
> 
> My son John, finally found an issue with my wiring with the Forward/Reverse switch and the way I installed the diode just as Mark sent the same info to us.
> 
> View attachment 266409
> 
> Nice to finally get the machine running.
> 
> View attachment 266410
> 
> 
> Without this site and the kind help of members here I doubt I would have attempted the VFD conversion let alone completed it successfully, so thanks to those who have posted their builds here for others to learn from, and a very big thank you to Mark Jacobs.
> 
> David.


Have to agree with your comments about the site David,  Without the help from the people on this site and in my case in particular Mark Jacobs there is NO way I'd be trying set up this equipment the way I am.  It's both fun and a very educational experience.  I paid a small fortune to have the power supply box for my lathe built "professionally" and realized with some guidance from guys on the site such as you, and Mark and Chevy I can build my own set up for less money and more "EGO" satisfaction and actually have a bit of understanding of what's going on which I never would have developed without this process.
Alex


Kiwi Canuck said:


> Here is the Mill setup doc provided by Mark Jacobs.


Wonderful, thanks for passing these on and a special thanks to Mark Jacobs for putting this info together.
Alex


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

I have had a few jobs I've needed my lathe and mill for already but as they were'nt ready to run I found other ways to get the work done, but I was determined to use them for this job and it was awesome to use the mill for the first time on a real project, even though it was just a plastic housing I was milling down.

I had about 20 to do and I needed to machine a new channel to re-route the wires through the back of the unit so we can mount them on a single gang 1110 electric box mounted sideways.

The mill was so sweet to use and I learned a lot on my first mini project.

Here is the setup, pretty basic but I had a grin on my face the whole time, it was great.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

I have now mounted the control pod and the DRO install is progressing.

I might shorten the spacers on the pod as it sticks out quite a ways, I think they are about 50mm right now so maybe 35mm might be better.


----------



## Kamloopsendo

VERY nice and inspiring, I'm itching to get mine up and running - just realized I've not ordered a tach yet!  I like where you mounted the control box too.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Kamloopsendo said:


> VERY nice and inspiring, I'm itching to get mine up and running - just realized I've not ordered a tach yet!  I like where you mounted the control box too.



Alex, thanks for the compliments, the control pod is quite high being mounted on the side there as my mill will be raised about 5-6" but as I'm 6'2" it's perfect for me. (I "borrowed the idea from Tim Marks "Explodee")

If you do buy a Tach for the Mill, get the one with an 8mm magnet, or check with Mark Jacobs as he suggested the one I got needs a smaller head and magnet to make it fit the quill on my mill.
He makes a nice halo light that I might see if he will make more as they incorporate the Tach sensor and magnet into IIRC.

Cheers,

David


----------



## Kamloopsendo

Given that I"m 5 -5 on a good day ( thanks to some rather severe compression fractures in the lumbar and thoracic spine which results in my GROSSLY overestimating my skill on a motorcycle on more than one occasion) I might not find that a good position.  Once I have the mill in place it will be a bit easier to decide I guess.  The location Chevy used seems really convenient if a bit exposed so might work better for me.  Thanks for the tip on the tach, I'll have to go back thru Mark's post on that and have a look at the actual mill before I order a tach.
Alex


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

A little more progress to report on the lathe.

I finally got around to tackling the lathe wiring.

This looks so nice from the factory, a pity to pull it all out but that's what I did.












Not so pretty any more.






The new layout, figuring where everything goes.






A close up of the VFD setup, very similar to the Mill layout.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Another weekend is almost done and I've managed to get a little bit of time in the shop today.

I've finished the VFD enclosure and mounted it on the end of the lathe, here it is.







Here's a shot from the inside.






After wiring up the fan in the Mill VFD I decided to install an ON/OFF switch on this box as the fan is VERY LOUD when nothing else is going on in the shop. I may try running it on 12VDC and it should run a bit slower and quieter.

I'll need to figure out how to have the fan only run when the lathe is running and then I shouldn't hear it.

I put the switch out of the way between the intake and exhaust ports.


----------



## Hawkeye

My Teco VFD has an output that comes on when the motor is in use. I use it to prevent accidental switching between the mill and the lathe while either one is running, and to turn on a red or a green LED to indicate that status. Maybe there is a similar output on yours.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Hawkeye said:


> My Teco VFD has an output that comes on when the motor is in use. I use it to prevent accidental switching between the mill and the lathe while either one is running, and to turn on a red or a green LED to indicate that status. Maybe there is a similar output on yours.



Thanks Mike, that's a good idea, I'll check the manual or failing that I know someone who may know already.

David.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Wish I had more progress to report but I had a few days of fun stuff with the family this Canada Day long weekend and didn't get much done on the machines.

I've been looking at the wiring diagrams provided by Mark Jacobs until I start seeing them in my sleep but I'm still not fully understanding them.

I could just wire them up as per the diagram but I do really want to follow the logic so I can actually verify my work if something doesn't work right.

The challenge is the diagram versus the way I've placed my actual components are not alike.

I have the relays in the existing small cabinet at the back of the lathe and the VFD and 24VDC power supply are in the larger lower cabinet.

I need to run an additional set of cables between the two boxes to complete the connections, but I don't have any extra shielded cable so I was trying to see if I could use what I have available to me but it doesn't look like it's possible.

Anyways I got started on the relays and terminal strip and have flip flopped on keeping the factory supplied main power disconnect in the existing cabinet or adding a new one which I already bought and install it on the VFD box like I did on the mill.

Both options have their merits but I think I may go ahead and add one to the VFD box as that was my original plan and I won't have to deal with the limited space for wiring in the smaller box and I'd also only have 24VDC in that box and keeps everything a bit cleaner.

Here's where I'm at so far with the wiring, I will tidy this up a bit before it get all buttoned up.

BTW those 2 circuit modules in the top of the picture are not part of the build, they are the control boards from Kaba Saflok Hotel Card Readers, I'm modifying them for a job so they will fit on a single gang plate.


----------



## mksj

You do not need to use shielded cable for short runs of wiring. The cabling and components are in modules, almost all my current lathe builds have a separate VFD enclosure with the high voltage components and I use the stock lathe enclosure for the logic control. The important concept is that there are relay contacts specific to the VFD input signaling vs. 24VDC which controls the relay coil logic. If you have any questions shoot me a PM.

On the fan, I will often use a triggered timer, so when either the forward/reverse relays are active it sends a run signal to a relay to close which sets the run time, or you add an extra set of relay contacts (3P relay) and use the 3rd pole to turn on/off the fan. Another alternative is to just use a cabinet thermostat to turn on/off the external cooling fan based on temperature. https://www.ebay.com/p/Kts011-0-60-...ostat-Sensor-Temperature-Controller/508529142


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Mark, thanks for the quick response, I've ordered a couple of those cabinet thermostats, at about $3 each including shipping it was a tough call but I went ahead and ordered them. 

Nice to know I don't need shielded cable, that will allow me to get on with the rest of the wiring without waiting for another shipment.

One quick question, I've purchased a proximity sensor kit and I see on many of your lathe builds there is a button for proximity override, why would you want to override the proximity stop sensor?

 I'll email you once I've figured out what other questions I may have.

David.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Wow, over 2 years since I started this thread and what a slow poke I've been in getting my machines finished.

I did get the lathe some what operational last week but still need to finish up a few controls and the DRO installation.

To be fair, I bought these machines earlier than I intended and wanted them to be ready once I freed myself up from full time work to get some long over due projects done, so from that perspective I'm still on track. haha.

Here is my son John finishing up the VFD programming, seems everything is working and he ran it through a few test sequences.





Here is the relay control box during the planning stages, I used one of the factory liquid tight flex conduits to route the wiring around to the front control pod,  a little tight but worked OK.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

I guess I should update this thread so the journey is complete.

I've have had my PM 935 mill up and running for sometime, but I still need to complete the tach install, build a proper stand and buy a better vise (or maybe 2)

The lathe on the other hand sat neglected as life got busy and I've been distracted by work, family, motorcycle trips and just living life.

Sometime around Dec 1st last year, I got a list of things together that were incomplete in my life and started working on them, the lathe was on the list but it's taken till this month to get at it with a dedicated recommitment.

I studied the wiring diagram supplied by Mark Jacobs and finished up the wiring, surprisingly everything worked perfectly which was a nice feeling as it`s easy to get a diode installed backwards or miss a vital connection as I did on the mill install.

The electronic braking is outstanding, I just love that feature, also the forward reverse jog is cool.

I installed the Aloris QCTP, I took my time milling the supplied material for the T-nut and fitted it, very nice piece of kit and it works so smoothly.






Last week I was working on mounting the DRO including the Easson display, I made a few mockups for the display and wasn`t happy with any of them, they just looked cobbled together, functional but not easy on the eyes.

On the mill I used the factory supplied bracket and arm for the display and it looks OK, but I wanted to do something better on the lathe, so I found some 1.125 aluminum round and machined a flat on one side then drilled and tapped 3 holes using the DRO line feature.

I used the same settings to make a template for drilling the side of the electrical box, clamped to the box and drilled 3 holes, once installed on the electrical box I considered how to mount the arm, and then I thought do I actually need an adjustable arm, maybe not.

So I drilled the center of the piece out using the lathe for the first time and then tapped it with a 10 X  1.5 tap, using the lathe turning the chuck with the jog button, that was easy.

After test fitting it the display sat up quite high so I drilled out about 1`` of the threads out so it could thread in further and the display sat lower, it tightened up in the exact right spot and I left it like that till I pull it apart for painting.
















Now onto the install of the scales, this is the part that makes me sweat, drilling into the cross slide and tapping with a 6mm tap, first hole done, I usually drill one hole then align the piece and then mark the other holes with a transfer punch just in case the drill wanders a little, I get to correct for each hole this way.






This part finished, now for the scales, I``ll finish those later tonight.






I hope the bracket clears the cover as I plan on installing the covers, if not I can always mill out a bit from this bracket to make clearance.

More to come.

David.


----------



## Dhal22

I build model airplanes and often take 3-4 years to complete one.   Always great to see a thread finished.


----------



## DavidR8

Kiwi Canuck said:


> I guess I should update this thread so the journey is complete.
> 
> I've have had my PM 935 mill up and running for sometime, but I still need to complete the tach install, build a proper stand and buy a better vise (or maybe 2)
> 
> The lathe on the other hand sat neglected as life got busy and I've been distracted by work, family, motorcycle trips and just living life.
> 
> Sometime around Dec 1st last year, I got a list of things together that were incomplete in my life and started working on them, the lathe was on the list but it's taken till this month to get at it with a dedicated recommitment.
> 
> I studied the wiring diagram supplied by Mark Jacobs and finished up the wiring, surprisingly everything worked perfectly which was a nice feeling as it`s easy to get a diode installed backwards or miss a vital connection as I did on the mill install.
> 
> The electronic braking is outstanding, I just love that feature, also the forward reverse jog is cool.
> 
> I installed the Aloris QCTP, I took my time milling the supplied material for the T-nut and fitted it, very nice piece of kit and it works so smoothly.
> 
> View attachment 318602
> 
> 
> Last week I was working on mounting the DRO including the Easson display, I made a few mockups for the display and wasn`t happy with any of them, they just looked cobbled together, functional but not easy on the eyes.
> 
> On the mill I used the factory supplied bracket and arm for the display and it looks OK, but I wanted to do something better on the lathe, so I found some 1.125 aluminum round and machined a flat on one side then drilled and tapped 3 holes using the DRO line feature.
> 
> I used the same settings to make a template for drilling the side of the electrical box, clamped to the box and drilled 3 holes, once installed on the electrical box I considered how to mount the arm, and then I thought do I actually need an adjustable arm, maybe not.
> 
> So I drilled the center of the piece out using the lathe for the first time and then tapped it with a 10 X 1.5 tap, using the lathe turning the chuck with the jog button, that was easy.
> 
> After test fitting it the display sat up quite high so I drilled out about 1`` of the threads out so it could thread in further and the display sat lower, it tightened up in the exact right spot and I left it like that till I pull it apart for painting.
> 
> View attachment 318597
> 
> 
> View attachment 318604
> 
> 
> View attachment 318598
> 
> 
> Now onto the install of the scales, this is the part that makes me sweat, drilling into the cross slide and tapping with a 6mm tap, first hole done, I usually drill one hole then align the piece and then mark the other holes with a transfer punch just in case the drill wanders a little, I get to correct for each hole this way.
> 
> View attachment 318600
> 
> 
> This part finished, now for the scales, I``ll finish those later tonight.
> 
> View attachment 318601
> 
> 
> I hope the bracket clears the cover as I plan on installing the covers, if not I can always mill out a bit from this bracket to make clearance.
> 
> More to come.
> 
> David.



Great install. 
Is that a ‘65 Beetle?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kamloopsendo

Kiwi Canuck said:


> I guess I should update this thread so the journey is complete.
> 
> I've have had my PM 935 mill up and running for sometime, but I still need to complete the tach install, build a proper stand and buy a better vise (or maybe 2)
> 
> The lathe on the other hand sat neglected as life got busy and I've been distracted by work, family, motorcycle trips and just living life.
> 
> Sometime around Dec 1st last year, I got a list of things together that were incomplete in my life and started working on them, the lathe was on the list but it's taken till this month to get at it with a dedicated recommitment.
> 
> I studied the wiring diagram supplied by Mark Jacobs and finished up the wiring, surprisingly everything worked perfectly which was a nice feeling as it`s easy to get a diode installed backwards or miss a vital connection as I did on the mill install.
> 
> The electronic braking is outstanding, I just love that feature, also the forward reverse jog is cool.
> 
> I installed the Aloris QCTP, I took my time milling the supplied material for the T-nut and fitted it, very nice piece of kit and it works so smoothly.
> 
> View attachment 318602
> 
> 
> Last week I was working on mounting the DRO including the Easson display, I made a few mockups for the display and wasn`t happy with any of them, they just looked cobbled together, functional but not easy on the eyes.
> 
> On the mill I used the factory supplied bracket and arm for the display and it looks OK, but I wanted to do something better on the lathe, so I found some 1.125 aluminum round and machined a flat on one side then drilled and tapped 3 holes using the DRO line feature.
> 
> I used the same settings to make a template for drilling the side of the electrical box, clamped to the box and drilled 3 holes, once installed on the electrical box I considered how to mount the arm, and then I thought do I actually need an adjustable arm, maybe not.
> 
> So I drilled the center of the piece out using the lathe for the first time and then tapped it with a 10 X  1.5 tap, using the lathe turning the chuck with the jog button, that was easy.
> 
> After test fitting it the display sat up quite high so I drilled out about 1`` of the threads out so it could thread in further and the display sat lower, it tightened up in the exact right spot and I left it like that till I pull it apart for painting.
> 
> View attachment 318597
> 
> 
> View attachment 318604
> 
> 
> View attachment 318598
> 
> 
> Now onto the install of the scales, this is the part that makes me sweat, drilling into the cross slide and tapping with a 6mm tap, first hole done, I usually drill one hole then align the piece and then mark the other holes with a transfer punch just in case the drill wanders a little, I get to correct for each hole this way.
> 
> View attachment 318600
> 
> 
> This part finished, now for the scales, I``ll finish those later tonight.
> 
> View attachment 318601
> 
> 
> I hope the bracket clears the cover as I plan on installing the covers, if not I can always mill out a bit from this bracket to make clearance.
> 
> More to come.
> 
> David.


Good to see you're still at it David.  I basically was lazy and bought the same lathe with the DRO installed by Matt's crew but did ultimately install Mark's control system and it is SLICK I agree, that jog is so handy as is the proximity sensor for the carriage.  Nice work there, we're doing much the same thing, I've knocked off some parts for my bikes, mostly fasteners that are unique and were trashed and even made a top for a triple tree to fit as set of GSXR forks on my friends cafe Racer build.  The tools are great to have and one learns endlessly from them.
Alex


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

DavidR8 said:


> Great install.
> Is that a ‘65 Beetle?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



David, thanks for the compliments, the Beetle is a 1966, but it's not mine, a friend is storing a few cars in my workshop for a few months, which is now a few years, one of these days I better get some of my shop back, but I'll wait till I need the space for myself.

David.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Kamloopsendo said:


> Good to see you're still at it David.  I basically was lazy and bought the same lathe with the DRO installed by Matt's crew but did ultimately install Mark's control system and it is SLICK I agree, that jog is so handy as is the proximity sensor for the carriage.  Nice work there, we're doing much the same thing, I've knocked off some parts for my bikes, mostly fasteners that are unique and were trashed and even made a top for a triple tree to fit as set of GSXR forks on my friends cafe Racer build.  The tools are great to have and one learns endlessly from them.
> Alex


Hi Alex, glad you're having fun with your machines as well, it sure is nice to be able to make stuff when needed or just tinkering in the shop for fun.

BTW I'm glad I don't install DRO's for a living as I would be very poor based on how long it takes me, haha.

David.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Well , I got the X scale installed or is it the Z, it turned out really well.

I used 1/2" aluminum for the vertical bracket and a block of 5/8" for the bottom bracket, I ended up putting a piece of angle on the block and attching the read head through the side as the 4mm screws on the bottom are very shallow and it seemed like a really tough way to go so I took the route with the most room for adjustments, took a lot longer but worked out well.

I Installed the cover and then fitted the backsplash and also installed the light and wired it into my 24VDC power supply.

My son and I went through the programming and he setup the jog to run at 30hz set the 2nd stage braking to 3 seconds and also optimized a few others things which I've forgotten already.

A few shots of the finished install.

















Shot of the almost finished control panel, just need to install the switch for 2 stage braking and maybe a bypass switch for the proximity stop.


----------



## DavidR8

Looks great! Time to get 'er covered in chips I say!


----------



## Dabbler

very clean install, @Kiwi Canuck !

I'm in a similar momentous project thing right now.  I have 80% of a 15X60 LeBlond completely disassembled lathe on my workshop floor, along with 70% of a BP clone, waiting for COVID19 to end so I can pick up the remainder and reassemble them...

I've been following your thread for quite a while now, silently.  I used to own a house in White Rock (and still visit regularly), and my cousin lives in Ladner.  Next time I'm there (well after the pandemic) we might have a coffee if you are free.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

Dabbler said:


> very clean install, @Kiwi Canuck !
> 
> I'm in a similar momentous project thing right now.  I have 80% of a 15X60 LeBlond completely disassembled lathe on my workshop floor, along with 70% of a BP clone, waiting for COVID19 to end so I can pick up the remainder and reassemble them...
> 
> I've been following your thread for quite a while now, silently.  I used to own a house in White Rock (and still visit regularly), and my cousin lives in Ladner.  Next time I'm there (well after the pandemic) we might have a coffee if you are free.


Thanks for the comments Dabbler, I would be up for that, let me know when you'll be here next time.

David.


----------



## Dabbler

Prob in the summer.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck

I am almost finished with the DRO install, man that cross slide install took way too long.

It's actually good to take on something like this as it sure improves my skills on my machines.

The little mounting bracket that holds the read head was a really challenging part to get right, the first one didn't work out, so I thought about the mounting process a little more and came up with a way to get it installed with a bit of adjustment built-in.

Also needed to make a long drill bit to reach these holes.













I then made Rev.2 and got a little aggressive with the face mill and made it too thin, so I needed to trim the spacer bracket to match, it was a little bit of 2 steps forward 1 back, it looks pretty good but then it's going to covered up with a cover, so much for my nice workmanship, it won't even be seen.
I installed a jack screw at the top center to adjust the plate as it had a slight tilt inwards at the top, probably would have been OK but might as well get it straight.










Testing the position of the cover, not sure if I'll use this one or make a custom made one.






I still need to add a hex bolt and make a cut away in the spacer to be able to lock the cross slide as others have done.






OK that's about all for now, I've still got a bit of work left on cable management and still need to cleanup my shop as it's a mess after all the milling and drilling today.

David.


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## aliva

For what it's worth I have King Industrial 12x36 lathe and 9x42 turret mill with a Fagor 2 axis DRO. I've had both for  4 years. Never had any problems with either. I paid 3500 for the lathe and that was a pretty good price at the time. So 3700 today I think is reasonable. I only had to call the Montreal service dept. once, and they were very helpful, solved my issue immediately.


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## parshal

I just finished mounting the M-DRO mag scales on my 1340GT cross slide.  I made the scale/bracket 9" long and the chip shield 10".  I used 3M 9495MP tape to mount the scale to the cross slide and some other 3M foam adhesive to hold my bracket to the cross slide casting.  I'd made slots in the bracket in case the tape fails at some point and I need to bolt it to the casting.  

I'm seriously impressed with that tape.  I heated it to about 115 with a heat gun before application.  Once it was on it's freakin' tight and only gets stronger over time.  The tape uses 3M's 200MP acrylic adhesive which they say is good from -40 - 400 F and is best for metal.  It's also got some chemical and solvent resistance.


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## parshal

I finished the Y axis (or is it Z0?) yesterday and got the Easson display connected to the VFD box so it will come on with the machine.  The way I mounted the reader I can't use the chip shield.  I'll have to make a longer one if chips become an issue.

I used a board to mount the DRO.  That was the simplest quickest way to use it.  I'll worry about mounting it to the machine if/when I move.

The X is held on with the 200MP tape and it's only gotten more adhered since Saturday.  The real test was hitting it with the tailstock and it didn't budge.

Next up is figuring out how best to mount the 3rd axis to the tailstock.


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## Kiwi Canuck

Ha ha the mounting of the display looks a bit like my first try.

Looks like that 3M tape worked out well to mount the read head.

What Brand of scales are those?

Looks like you have an Aloris QCTP as well, I love the action on my one.

David.


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## Kiwi Canuck

aliva said:


> For what it's worth I have King Industrial 12x36 lathe and 9x42 turret mill with a Fagor 2 axis DRO. I've had both for  4 years. Never had any problems with either. I paid 3500 for the lathe and that was a pretty good price at the time. So 3700 today I think is reasonable. I only had to call the Montreal service dept. once, and they were very helpful, solved my issue immediately.


Hey that's great that you have been happy with the King 12 X 36 lathe, I know another 3 people with King Industrial lathes and they report good things about them, only one had a minor  issue with the tail stock moving while machining, not sure how he got that resolved.
I just couldn't pull the trigger at the time and I'm glad I held out and bought Taiwanese made machines as they are very nicely made but I did pay more than double so is that. 

David.


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## parshal

They are magnetic scales made by M-DRO.  I bought the 3-axis kit from the UK.  You can buy them from SRA in Texas but they were more expensive.

I bought the Aloris from PM when I got the machine.  It is pretty nice.


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## Christy

bobl said:


> Take a look at sharp industries I have a 13-40 made in Taiwan had for about 15 years no problems   good all round machine
> Don't forget to also look at used I also restored a h10 southbend and a Rockwell mill and modified to a turret mill
> We are neighbors I'm in Mission
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


Hi Bobl,
I recently acquired a 1340cu sharp lathe. I was wandering to you know how a guy can get a manual or even a picture of the thread settings. The motor is 1980 so pretty old machine. I’m excited to getting to use it. I’m in Alberta. 
Thanks


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