# South Bend 13 - A rare Metric model (VIDEO of solo move on page 2)



## Shadow-Boxer (Mar 11, 2021)

Hello everyone.
I just purchased a South Bend Model: CL 0145CM. The tail end of the bed shows: 16044T. I have no idea what that translates to. Any help appreciated.
I am not a machinist. I have experience with an old Atlas from a shop I worked at last decade. They closed. I have always wanted my own lathe since.
I read a lot and looked around for awhile. Finally found this one and it's nice with moderate, good accessories, but it's not perfect.

There are a few problems I hope you can give me some guidance on:
It has a 2hp 3phase motor. I am going to put it in my basic civilian garage/shop with one plug ----> way over there.
This is quite annoying really. The first thing to do after buying the lathe is to buy more stuff! And I'm sure this is only the beginning.

- So I heard that this is solved with a VFD
OR would simply changing the motor to a 2-3hp single phase be better? I found a 3hp motor for $125.

If I get a VFD I did not want to buy the absolute cheapest thing I could find.
I prioritize quality over price. What ever I do, I only want to do it once. So I don't know if simply getting a single phase motor is a better option or is there some problem with that. The machine already has what the seller thinks is original factory electronics.
Either choice might end up being about equally expensive and equally effective. I don't know. Any ideas?

My first problem is getting it to the garage.
I am going to look for one of those trailers that can raise and lower so I can bring it right to the ground when I get it home and slide it into the garage. What are those called again?
Any good ideas, scary stories or funny anecdotes regarding transport of these beasts?

There is one or two other issues but those can wait until after these are resolved.
Thank you for any help.


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## Peyton Price 17 (Mar 11, 2021)

we used a lift gate truck to move my lathe. a 9x15 but it weighs 1,500 pounds. find one with the capacity to get it. it was a 28 footer for a 3x4x4 lathe.


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## ddillman (Mar 11, 2021)

try a equipment rental outfit. they use those trailers for hauling scissor lifts.


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## FOMOGO (Mar 11, 2021)

Drop deck, I believe is what those trailers are called. Congrats on the lathe purchase and welcome to the forum. Mike


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## DavidR8 (Mar 11, 2021)

According to the Steve Wells South Bend Serial Number Database your lathe was made in 1978.


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## Shadow-Boxer (Mar 11, 2021)

I found out that my SUV (2014 Ford Explorer) does not have any receiver for a trailer hitch. To hook up a trailer I would need to buy and install a large bracket thing which would probably cost more than renting a whole truck.

So it looks like I'm going to rent a whole truck.
Something with the power gate/platform to bring the lathe from the truck bed to the ground. 
In a controlled manner. NOT like those videos we've seen... !
This will probably happen next week so I have a little more time to get the garage organized/prepared for it.

I was wondering if you can tell by the numbers what I got?
The seller was telling me this was fairly unique and special and rare and so good, etc.
Do the model and serial numbers suggest any of that or it's just another lathe.

By the way, thank you DavidR8 for the date of manufacture: 1978. I appreciate your help.
The seller told me it was 1978 or 1979, so you both came to the same conclusion. He actually seemed fairly sure. While there, I mentioned the late '70s was the date in the ad and then I added something like, "...so late '70s early '80s?" No he said. If he put 1978 or 9 then that is what it is.
That was good I thought; I prefer more accurate. And now your reply confirms it.

It's getting cold here tonight.
Might have to get the fireplace going. Burn some wood while dreaming of carving some curly metal.
Thanks all. 
Cheers.


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## matthewsx (Mar 12, 2021)

I would definitely recommend a drop deck trailer over a truck lift gate. Lift gates tend to not be level, especially if the truck is on a slope. I moved my lathe with a drop deck trailer and if I didn’t have a hitch I would rent a truck that did.

Make sure to remove anything that can come loose, even if you don’t know it will  I lost part of the gap on my lathe during the move and it continues to be an adventure.

Get help from someone who’s done it before, preferably someone who can bring the right stuff. You think it should be straightforward but there are a thousand little things that can trip you.

I asked for help on here and two members generously volunteered, I could not have done it without them

John


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## tq60 (Mar 12, 2021)

Flatbed tow truck.

We got a 3 hp Allen Bradley VFD for 199 on ebay for ours, works great.

Get help moving and remove anything that moves or that you can lift.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Shadow-Boxer (Mar 27, 2021)

Hi,
Been busy. 
Turns out that renting a truck would cost about as much as just buying the hitch and installing it myself. 
Then I have to rent a drop deck trailer and get it home.

That is exactly what I did.





I only had one strap so I stopped by Lowe's on the way home.





Got it across the garage threshold and called it good for the night.

Getting the trailer, the lathe and getting back home took about 3-4 hours. I took surface streets the whole way.
Getting it off the trailer and into the garage took about 5 hours.
Did not break anything but I felt like I lost a fight for about 3 days... However I won. Somehow got it done by myself. 

Now I am ready to settle on a spot in the garage.
Can anyone give any suggestions, recommendations or experiences with getting a VFD (which one) 
compared to replacing the 3 phase motor with a single phase? Why not just replace the motor?

Thanks for any help or guidance.


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## Janderso (Mar 27, 2021)

Looks like a nice lathe.
More pics please when you get settled.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Mar 29, 2021)

Definitely go with a VFD - variable speed, soft start, braking, easy reversing, excellent finishes - for a couple hundred bucks you should be able to get a 220V 1ph in/ 220V 3ph out VFD for that.

Congrats on the new lathe, looks like a beauty and with the highly sought after D1 spindle!


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## Janderso (Mar 29, 2021)

Yellow handles-controls.
Doesn't that say, I'm from a school?
My Colchester had yellow handles. It came from a community college.


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## DavidR8 (Mar 29, 2021)

Shadow-Boxer said:


> Hi,
> Been busy.
> Turns out that renting a truck would cost about as much as just buying the hitch and installing it myself.
> Then I have to rent a drop deck trailer and get it home.
> ...


That's a good looking Beemer!


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## Shadow-Boxer (Mar 29, 2021)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> Definitely go with a VFD - variable speed, soft start, braking, easy reversing, excellent finishes - for a couple hundred bucks you should be able to get a 220V 1ph in/ 220V 3ph out VFD for that.
> 
> Congrats on the new lathe, looks like a beauty and with the highly sought after D1 spindle!


Thanks for the feedback. 
That all sounds good. Have you tired it both ways?
What is a reliable brand? What should I be looking for?

The spindle.





The back of the chuck. Not an exact measurement but close.










The front.





Thanks for your help.


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## Shadow-Boxer (Mar 29, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Yellow handles-controls.
> Doesn't that say, I'm from a school?
> My Colchester had yellow handles. It came from a community college.


Ha Ha, yup. As far as I know. 
The seller is some kind of dealer and he told me it came from a tech school. 
So not quite as bad as a high school, but there is damage to the compound and base. Everything still works of course.

All the oil caps are also painted yellow. 
It looks like it was first repainted a turquoise blue of some unknown flavor and then repainted a light grey with yellow accents on top of that. 
I'm guessing Color Theory was not part of the curriculum. 
: )

There are several unusual things about this lathe. 
Here it is temporarily shoe-horned into a pocket in the garage and some of the pix from when I originally checked it out at the sellers shop. 
Notice the lever on the head stock.





These gears look a little different? Most obvious on the lower right pair.





Completely obvious on the badge.
I could find no information on these besides the fact that they were made. Probably common in other parts of the world - notice the badge is in several languages.
The dealer I bought it from said he had never seen one before.





The taper attachment.





Also from the seller's shop.




Came without a tool post -this is just mounted for testing- nothing below the chip pan. Came with some of the things on the chip pan. 

Thanks for the help. As I said, I'm not a machinist and have never dealt with 3 phase, VFD, etc.


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## Shadow-Boxer (Mar 29, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> That's a good looking Beemer!


Thanks. 1993 BMW R100R.
Machines are fun!
Cheers.


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## Janderso (Mar 29, 2021)

That beemer caught my attention.
I had a R1200RT. Great memories


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## mattthemuppet2 (Mar 29, 2021)

that is a beautiful bimmer!

No personal experience with 3ph machines other than a mill, but I have variable speed DC motors on all my machines and REALLY like them. Being able to tweak the speed in a cut to avoid chatter or get a better chip is really neat, as is reversing at the flick of a switch. Being able to brake instantly would be nice, but perhaps not on my threaded spindle lathe  3ph motors + VFD are by all accounts, a smidge better than a DC motor, especially at lower motor speeds where DC motors can lose torque. If I were able to find cheap 3ph motors locally I would have gone with that for my mill and lathe, but couldn't so went with treadmill motors (= free, ish).

Teco and Hitachi VFDs are rated highly, mksj is the one to ask. Vector control is by all accounts a nice thing to have too, better low speed control.


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## Shadow-Boxer (Aug 4, 2021)

Hello everyone.
An update on the machine and the move.

I made a video for YouTube about the move and how I ended up doing it alone.
You can watch it here if you want:




]
It’s about 50 minutes because I wanted to offer some detail for others like me who have never done this before.
A lot of these types of videos just jump to the next step or the end without showing any problems or how exactly it was done:
“…then take out the transmission…”
CUT TO: the transmission on the bench.
The original assembly was over 3 hours! So while long, this version is a lot shorter.
If you have the time to enjoy someone else doing all the hard work for a change 
you might want to light up a cigar and/or pop open a cold one for this.

At the end I show the lathe itself in more detail and what came with it. Kind of a little music video. In the description below the video (click “Show More”) I created a TIMECODE where you can click on the time and it will jump to play from that point on. This way you can watch only what you are interested in or watch something again without guessing or hunting around for that moment.

Also I ended up getting a VFD. I think it was used or on sale for some reason. They had four, I bought one. Two days later they were all gone. I haven’t had time to set it up yet but I’m getting there. It’s a KB AC 27D. Probably still made overseas but they at least have a US phone number.

Thanks again for all the feedback and ideas. It’s good to know what some of the options are and what others have done.
I hope everyone is doing well.
Cheers.


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## MikeInOr (Aug 5, 2021)

The VFD should be wired directly to the 3 phase motor.  There should not be any switches between the VFD and the motor.  You use the FWD and REV functions of the VFD, not the 3ph switch that is on the Lathe.

My SB 13 looks very simular to yours.  I went the VFD route and it required a good amount of wiring with my implementation.  I used the 3ph FWD/REV switch that came with my lathe as an input to the VFD because I like the big old switch.

I made a pallet that is a good bit heavier than the pallet under your lathe and use a pallet jack to move it around my shop when repositioning it.  I did the same with my mill and a few other heavy machines and really like the solution.  Much simpler than building mobile bases for everything since they don't move very often.  I shim between the base of the lathe and the pallet to level the lathe once it is in place.


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## Shadow-Boxer (Aug 5, 2021)

Hi Mike,
So if I understand you correctly: 
Don’t do what you did? Do not use the switch control mounted to the top on my lathe? Use the controls on the VFD (KBAC 27D)? 
OR I could but it requires a lot of extra wiring and/or steps.

This is an issue for me because:
1. Like you, I appreciate the older switches and controls. 
I did not get a 1970s South Bend 13 because I wanted the most modern lathe in the world.
2. If you noticed a lever by the headstock -? 
That is an emergency stop lever. You pull on that and the motor stops as well as you are pulling down on a brake shoe that is stopping the spindle. 
I would really like to keep that functionality. 
The only way I can think to do that is to keep it between the VFD and the motor or between the VFD and the wall. 

I agree that a pallet jack would be nice and do a similar job to what I made. At this point I would also not put wheels under everything. I would simply make pallets that would accommodate my wheeled panels and use these again when needed. As you said, one is not often moving huge machinery around. Once in a while, here and there, these are easy solutions. 

Take care.


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## MikeInOr (Aug 5, 2021)

My SB13 did not come with a mechanical brake.  I purchased a braking resistor for my VFD and put a big red emergency stop button on the front of the lathe to activate a very quick braking via the VFD.  The VFD is programmed to stop the spindle VERY quickly when the emergency stop button is pressed.

My big old 3ph FWD/REV switch that came on the lathe is now just a control switch for the VFD and is only switching 12v control signals for the VFD.  The big old switch no longer carries ANY AC power to the motor.  When the big old switch is turned to stop, the middle position, the VFD brings the lathe spindle to a more gradual stop than with the emergency stop button due to the way I programmed the VFD.

I have a single AC breaker switch between the wall (220v single phase AC) and the power in for the VFD.  At the start of the day I turn on the AC breaker switch which turns the VFD on.  While using the lathe I use the big old switch repurposed as a control switch to tell the VFD to start/stop the motor and which direction to run through out the day.  At the end of the day I turn the lathe motor off via the big old switch telling the VFD to stop the lathe motor.  After the lathe has come to a stop I power off the VFD via the AC breaker switch so the VFD is not powered on all night while it isn't being used.

I have a bright green 12v light on the control box that is on when ever the VFD has power.  If I forget to turn off the AC breaker switch the green light lights the shop when I turn off the shop lights for the night reminding me to cut power to the VFD.

I don't actually work in my shop all day every day... but hopefully you get the gest of what I mean.

Breaking the circuit between the VFD and the lathe motor while the lathe is running can have adverse affects on the VFD.  This is certainly not something you will want to do frequently, if a all.  Killing the power to the VFD while the motor is running can like wise cause problems with the VFD.

Hopefully this makes more sense?

I bought a Hitachi WJ200 VFD for my lathe.  It is a quality VFD with good documentation and much knowledge about it on the internet.  For my less complex machines (ex. 3ph table saw) I use cheap Chinese VFD's which have never caused me a problem.


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## Shadow-Boxer (Aug 5, 2021)

Thank you for clarifying. 
I will certainly review this when I get closer to doing whatever it is that I end up doing.

Cheers.


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## SLK001 (Aug 15, 2021)

It looks like you have a metric version of the lathe.  Check the pitch on your spindle.  The absence of a threading dial would also lead to that conclusion.

Also, a comment on your move (not really for you, but for future viewers of this thread):  You have strapped around the headstock gear covers, etc.  Those are just simple castings - any large force will simply crack them into pieces.  To properly secure a lathe like this, strap ONLY on the bed.  It's better to use wooden cribbing on the bed to keep the straps away from the leadscrew and the chip pan.  It also helps to drive lag screws thru the wooden transport support into the bed of the trailer - this helps keep the lathe from sliding around during transport.


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## Shadow-Boxer (Aug 24, 2021)

That sounds all good to me.

FYI:
This lathe has a D1-4 mount.
”Threading Dial” means the geared part on the right side of the carriage/apron? It has one. The seller took it off for transport. At the end of the video I tied together some shots of what the lathe actually came with. The dial is a big square thing that has a lot of numbers and letters on the top. The seller did not know how to read it. 
I’m all ears if anyone can tell me.

Absolutely DO NOT load straps wrapped around the doors or covers. Or any hand-wheels or controls. 
I only loaded the straps around the bed. The straps around the headstock, etc. are only keeping those parts secure to the lathe itself and giving the extra strap length something to do rather than flapping around in the wind.

I think the rented trailer had a metal platform. I actually never thought of screwing the pallet into the floor of the trailer. Would be a good idea if I owned the trailer. The pallet did slide forward during transport a few inches. 

Thanks for the feedback. I hope that helps someone.
Cheers.


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