# Tenths Indicator Choices



## KyleG (Dec 12, 2022)

I don't yet have a tenths indicator, and I've been perusing the web for options. My immediate use will be scraping in the cross slide on my lathe, plus general use. What's everyone's thoughts on the options? Buy once cry once on an Interapid? ($300) Mitutoyo? ($200) Shars? ($70)

Thanks


----------



## erikmannie (Dec 12, 2022)

KyleG said:


> I don't yet have a tenths indicator, and I've been perusing the web for options. My immediate use will be scraping in the cross slide on my lathe, plus general use. What's everyone's thoughts on the options? Buy once cry once on an Interapid? ($300) Mitutoyo? ($200) Shars? ($70)
> 
> Thanks



I bought an econo-import DTI. Even so, it set me back about $45. I cannot recommend buying a cheapie. It was the absolute lowest price that I could find anywhere on the internet, & it performs as such.

I was using it to trammel a head on a knee mill + indicate a vise on the same mill. Not surprisingly, .0001” grads were too fine for this task. .0005” did the trick.

Unless the surface finish is up to the task, a .0001” DTI jumps all over the place just on the variations in the surface finish.

As I recall, my .0001” grad DTI wasn’t even close to keeping a zero on the reference jaw of a brand new Kurt vise!


----------



## Dabbler (Dec 12, 2022)

I bought Mitutoyo.  Works very well.  Not jeweled, but seems to last very well (so says my machinist friends)  Used my 7 years, and works like new.  

I will be getting a half-tenths Interrapid one day (over the rainbow)  if I ever save up enough sheckels (CDN$)


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 12, 2022)

I lucked out and managed to find a tenths Interrapid with all the accessories. It's fantastic.


----------



## Dabbler (Dec 12, 2022)

BTW You suck!  (envy emoji)  (my emoj menu is broken)


----------



## Aukai (Dec 13, 2022)

I have Compact DTIs .0005, .0001, and .0005 dial indicators along with the Mitutoyo dial calipers, and dial indicators.


----------



## Nutfarmer (Dec 13, 2022)

I like my Mitutoyo. Would love to have an interapid, but have a hard time justifying the cost. Brown and sharp are good too.


----------



## mmcmdl (Dec 13, 2022)

Older B&S Bestests here .


----------



## davidpbest (Dec 13, 2022)

I love my Mitutoyo 513-403.


----------



## GeneT45 (Dec 13, 2022)

Long Island Indicator http://www.longislandindicator.com/ has some pretty informative brand and model comparisons.  Of course they kind of steer you toward Interapid, but the info is good.  It's Mitutoyos in my shop.

GsT


----------



## sdelivery (Dec 13, 2022)

Why buy a tenth indicator?
I have  three...
Mitutoyo, Brown and Sharpe and Interapid.
In the last ten years they haven't left the box.
I have a whole bunch of indicators that haven't left the box in decades.....
I use two indicators  a Interapid .0005 finger style and a Mitutoyo one inch travel .0005
Why,? Repeatability.  When I use an indicator it's response and ability to repeat a zero or any reading.
I am sure there will be a host of " I need and You need" but in thirty years I can count The times I NEEDED a .0001 on one hand.
Yes, I spent many years scrapping and rebuilding and making repair parts.


----------



## Bone Head (Dec 13, 2022)

Unless you're dealing with mirror finishes, a .0001" indicator of any brand is going to register any bumps, scratches and of course repeatability is going to suffer.
The old guys with eons of experience where I worked would use .0005" indicatore and extrapolate the readings they got.  And it'd work.  As a side benefit newbies would lose their mind over that.


----------



## graham-xrf (Dec 13, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> BTW You suck!  (envy emoji)  (my emoj menu is broken)


Mine too, but you can get around it by typing :btw and the menu should pop up. It's "colon you suck colon", but I am in the obvious Catch-22 in that I can't type it without invoking it. 

If all else fails, here is the image.


----------



## Dabbler (Dec 13, 2022)

thanks graham!!


----------



## Dabbler (Dec 13, 2022)

@Bone Head I use my tenths Mitutoyo indicator about 3 times per year, tramming vises and indicating in parts in my 4 jaw chuck.

Most of the time I use one of those *really* cheap (in every way) offshore plunge indicators when being close is good enough.... but... sometimes close isn't anywhere near enough (says the anal-retentive guy).


----------



## ChazzC (Dec 13, 2022)

Most 0.0001” indicators have small ranges (~0.050”), and DTI’s are even less (+/- 0.004”), but I was surprised to find a 1” range indicator from Shars @ $60 on Amazon:





I have a number of DTI's (0.001" & 0.0005"), a couple of AGD1 dial indicators and a back-reading dial indicator from Shars and have been very happy with their performance, repeatability and accuracy.

The shown one above is listed as "Shockproof," but I would guess is more likely "Shock Resistant." Either way, should be a good feature to have when running across a scraped surface which isn't continuous.


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Dec 13, 2022)

Brown & Sharpe Tesa
Mitutoyo
Mahr


----------



## 682bear (Dec 14, 2022)

I'm with sdelivery... in 33 years, I've never needed one.

Actually, I've only used one a couple of times... you can guesstimate between the lines on a .0005 indicator and get pretty close to .0001 and have more travel and much less needle jump.

But if you want one, go ahead and get the Interapid... you won't be disappointed.

-Bear


----------



## sdelivery (Dec 14, 2022)

That is one point I totally in agreement with, you will not be disappointed by an Interapid. 
I believe it is worth the price IF you need one


----------



## mksj (Dec 14, 2022)

Like many others I have a have multiple test/dial indicators and end up only using primarily one which is a 0.0001" multi-turn test indicator (Compac 215GA which is no longer available).  Similar to what David Best picture shows, it is almost impossible to setup dial type center indicator with anything less than a 0.0001" indicator, and similar if you are setting up a set-tru type chuck, and I will also include tramming and other measurement functions. Having the multi-turn range gives one a lot more leeway as to dialing your measurements in. Using a 0.0005", which I have several, both the resolution and accuracy become more problematic if working in the sub 0.001" range. On the dial indicator I also use a 0.0001" indicator with a 0.2" range, I find it much easier to accurately dial in my work and decrease issues with cumulative errors. I do not do scraping, so cannot comment on the applicability in that area, but for day to day work, I would rather get a single better quality resolution indicator that can cover all my needs then a draw full of ones that I don't use.





__





						Test Indicator Brand Comparison
					

Test Indicator Brand Comparison: Mitutoyo, Starrett, Bestest, Interapid and others.




					www.longislandindicator.com
				







__





						Horizontal Test Indicator Model Equivalent
					

Horizontal test indicator model equivalents - inch reading - major brand names




					www.longislandindicator.com
				




Zoro often has 15% off if you sign up for emails and I get 20% notices off frequently








						Mitutoyo 513-443-10A $217.60 Dial Test Indicator, Hori, 0 to 0.016 In | Zoro.com
					

Order Mitutoyo Dial Test Indicator, Hori, 0 to 0.016 In, 513-443-10A at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.




					www.zoro.com
				











						Tesa Brown & Sharpe 312B-3 $279.00 Dial Test Indicator, Hori, 0 to 0.016 In | Zoro.com
					

Order Tesa Brown & Sharpe Dial Test Indicator, Hori, 0 to 0.016 In, 312B-3 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.




					www.zoro.com


----------



## Winegrower (Dec 14, 2022)

sdelivery said:


> Why buy a tenth indicator?


Because it’s a hobby!


----------



## projectnut (Dec 14, 2022)

Take what Long Island Indicator has to say with a grain of salt.  They seem to despise Federal products and bad mouth them at every chance they get.  I have over a dozen Federal indicators, and none have the problems they describe.  None have solder blobs, all are accurate, repeatable, and well jeweled.

Also check prices elsewhere before making a purchase or getting something repaired.  I've tried to purchase new units from them, and the prices were outrageous.  I've also tried to get things repaired and the cost was generally 2/3 the price of new and often more than the cost of the original unit.


----------



## tailstock4 (Dec 14, 2022)

I thought I’d add my two cents. A number of years ago I performed a test which although unscientific was kind of interesting to me. I checked the accuracy of several 1” dial indicators I had. I compared the accuracy in terms of travel of a Starrett and Mitutoyo against a couple of Chinese made indicators that I had. I have a Moore 1 1/2 jig bore which is in pretty good shape. These are known for their accuracy especially the lead screws. Moore has a tolerance of .000025 inch in any 1 inch of travel and .000070 in 14 inches of travel. I used this machine as my standard.

What I found was the Starrett and Mitutoyo were as accurate as I would have expected and just as important, they were consistent. What I learned about the Chinese indicators was that while they could be accurate in certain distances, they could also be inconsistent over their full travel. Long story short, you get what you pay for.

With regards to tenth indicators an example of their use in my shop would be checking spindle bearing spacers. I use one on a surface plate in conjunction with gauge blocks to check for height differences and parallelism. Spindle bearings in my 10EE are expensive and they need to be right, so it came down to what I trust, and for this I use my Intrepid tenth indicator. I trust its repeatability. For around-the-shop use on my machines, I use a Mitutoyo .0005 indicator. I guess I would be in the camp of sometimes less is more when it comes to test indicators. Tenth indicators can be fussy but necessary for some operations.


----------



## epanzella (Dec 14, 2022)

I bought a cheapie tenths indicator and every time the sweep changed direction it went to a different reading. It was worthless.


----------



## BGHansen (Dec 15, 2022)

Late to the table but I have a few Federals, Fowlers and at least one Interapid.  I tend to go to the 0.0005" ones and have Mitutoyo, Interapid, Starrett and Fowlers in those.  

I've used the 0.0001" resolution ones very sparingly.  I first used one to check the runout in the spindle of my new to me at the time Grizzly G0709 lathe.  

I also checked the runout of a 5C collet chuck that was on my Clausing.  The chuck was from CDCO and had around 0.002" of runout.  I ended up truing it up by turning down the register of the backing plate a few thousands, and placed shim between the register and the chuck.

Bruce


----------



## KyleG (Dec 18, 2022)

I appreciate everyone's input on the subject. It seems like a tenths indicator is less mandatory than I thought. I do have a lot of confidence in the resolving power of my half-thou indicator, so I guess I'll press on with that until I have a have a measurement that I truly can't perform with it.

Thanks again!
-Kyle


----------



## B2 (Dec 27, 2022)

@KyleG

I wanted to see if my lathe cross feed magnetic DRO was accurate.  It is suppose to have 1 micron resolution, but what about the accuracy?  So I purchased one of the cheaper digital display dial indicator.  0.001mm (1 micron) resolution with a 25mm stroke.  I paid about $45 for it and connected the digital gauge to the lathe and compared its reading to the DRO..  But this left me with even more questions.    It seems to be pretty good at measuring small differences if you are sliding it along a surface or even if you pull the plunger back and set it down on a surface repeatedly, but it turns out to be really hard to determine accuracy over the full stroke.   

What do you used for  a reference if you do not have anything that has been certified?  I have a number of micrometers, but nothing that was certified in the last 10 years if ever.    I even built a fixture to hold the digital dial indicator opposite a 1 micron resolution mechanical micrometer head and let the head push the dial indicator ....   taking a reading from both and plotting the error.  I found that even the cheap $45 unit appears to be accurate over the 25mm stroke to withing ~15 microns (~0.0005").  I think it may have even been better at the beginning, but I may have clamped it too hard or abused it before I started the measurement... causing some friction for the plunger.  

More recently I purchased a slightly more expensive version of one of these from Clockwise.  Amazon:  "Clockwise Tools DITR-0105 Electronic Digital Dial Indicator Gage Gauge Inch/Metric Conversion 0-1 Inch/25.4 mm 0.00005 Inch/0.001mm Resolution with Back Lug Auto Off"   There is also one with a probe tip set for just a bit more.   https://www.amazon.com/Clockwise-Tools-DITR-0105-Indicator-Resolution/dp/B08H4943GZ
or their store    https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/...b663-04d6-40a7-a4e3-9272a8cb582a&ref_=ast_bln

I paid about $63 (no probe tip set) because they promised to send an error curve, which they did.   It is much better than the first as It is more robust, the parts inside are all metal, machined, thicker, etc....  and the plunger moves extremely smooth with no obvious friction.  I also purchased the RS232 cable:   "Clockwise Tools DTCR-01 RS232 Digital Indicator Data Transfer Cable"    It has a small box with push button switch inline with the connection to the dial indicator and the USB port on my computer.   Push the button and the data appears in Excel or Word and drops the cursor down one line to capture the next data point.  Very slick and handy.  It also has an external trigger so that you could automate getting the data with a computer or you could implement a foot switch.  The cable costs about $40.    

This  DITR-0105 digital indicator has a 1 micron resolution and appears to function that way pretty well.  Performing an entire 25mm stroke the accuracy seems to be ~ 7 micron worst case.   I think this is pretty darn good for only $63.  The Amazon seller even sent me a message asking if I was dissatisfied or had any problems.  If so I was to simply say so and they would replace it.    All of the metal parts in it are thicker and stronger and appear to be machine worked, rather than just cast or made from plastic.  The inside guide is brass not plastic.  The probe shoulder used for mounting  is thicker and larger in diameter so is also better to clamp to.   It uses a 3V coin Li-Ion battery (CR2032 I think) where as the cheaper unit uses a 1.5v button cell so it probably last longer and should be more stable.   I have run them both for hours and the batteries seem fine.

By the way, while all of these digital micrometers I have looked up have an Off/On button this only turns off the display.  So even if the display is off,  and you move the probe the micrometer is still functioning to take data!  The only way to truly turn off the power is to remove the battery.  If you are going to store these things and not use them I would recommend removing the battery.  When I got the devices from the sellers they both had batteries in them.  But the batteries needed to be replaced.  The $63 unit came with a spare battery 3V cell.   

Anyway, I am going to purchase a couple more of these Clockwise units.    There are a lot of these things being sold, but this Clockwise version appears to be the best of them unless you may want to spend a few hundred dollars.    While a lot of the others say that their devices are cable ready they do not sell the cables.....  Clockwise also seems to be one of the few sellers that sells an RS232 cable. 

PS.  There is also a Clockwise unit that is slightly cheaper model number which seems to end in "N",  i.e. DITR-0105N which do not have the cable interface.  There are also versions that only have 1/2" stroke or which only have 0.01mm resolution.  The prices are cheaper.

If I ever finish with, and am happy with, my calibration procedure of these devices vs my micrometer heads or the lathe DRO I will post the results.  However, I must admit that when one gets down to trying to measure distances to only a few microns a lot can go wrong in the process.

 Dave L.


----------



## sdelivery (Dec 27, 2022)

Joe blocks and Cadillac gauges


----------



## B2 (Dec 27, 2022)

sdelivery said:


> Joe blocks and Cadillac gauges


 Yes, but have yet to purchase as the need is not great.  The other problem is, I like plots with lots of data points and .... I was spoiled by using an HP laser interferometer ......


----------



## Dabbler (Dec 27, 2022)

To calibrate Z axis on a lathe, you use the carriage stop and joe blocks over the longest stack you can assemble - in my case 9".  The setup for X is more complicated, and depends on your lathe.


----------



## Cadillac (Dec 27, 2022)

I use a tenth gauge all the time. Probably have half a dozen test indicators and acouple plunger style. Also have some .0005. 
I understand in most instances you don’t need tenths but the closer you get it the more room for error on your end with machining. 
 Surface grinding I use a tenths indicator that’s it.  The more I think of it I have more tenths than thousandths indicators and rarely use the thou.  ones. Usually for rough alignment of a part


----------



## rwdenney (Dec 27, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> Older B&S Bestests here .


Me, too. I have a Brown & Sharpe-branded BesTest DTI with 0.0005 markings, but it’s easy to read between the lines. It has a range of 0.010, so it’s not the first device one picks up, but it’s a joy to use. I also have a Lufkin 0.0001 dial indicator but it needs service, in spite of my general happiness with old Lufkin stuff. A tenths dial indicator like the Lufkin has two hands and a range of a maybe 0.5”, which is useful. I’ve been eyeing a tenths DTI, but the measurement range is only about 0.008, so by the time you can keep the needle on the scale the part has already passed muster with at least one other indicator. 

Measuring tenths is hard. 

My older Fowler mics measure tenths repeatably, and I have the gauge blocks and standards to test myself using them. 

Rick “happy to use a half-thou indicator to measure thousandths” Denney


----------



## rwdenney (Dec 27, 2022)

I would add that if I was measuring surface plates or doing precision grinding, then thousandths might as well be miles. 

But I’m not. 

Rick “knows his limitations” Denney


----------

