# Looking for replacement grinding wheels over stock grey wheels



## PurpLev (Jun 21, 2012)

Hi, I have been using the stock 6" wheels on my porter cable VS grinder until now, and am looking to upgrade those for something that runs cooler and keeps it's cutting surface fresher for a longer time (these stock wheels gets glazed and stop cutting real quick and start burning the cutting toolings I'm forming).

I've looked at the Norton White aluminum oxide wheels which run at ~$25 in local stores although found them also for half price online.

I've also seen the ones at enco (tru-maxx) at $9 per wheel.

my stock wheels are 36x and 60x.

my questions to you folks are:


have you had experience with the enco wheels? are they good? better than stock wheels? compared to the notron white wheels?
are the white wheels really better?
Should I look for 36x and 60x replacements? or should I look at 60x and 100x instead?
What do you have running on your grinder?

Hoping this thread could help others as well for future reference.

Thanks in advance.


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## xalky (Jun 21, 2012)

Do you have a grinding wheel dresser? There are several different types. They work really well to clear the glazing out of the wheels and to get the wheel back down to virgin grit. You can get them at places like HF or just about any place that sells good tools. They're pretty cheap too. 




the one on the left works by spinning the toothed wheels on the spinning grinding wheel to dislodge the crap out of the wheel and bring it back to virgin grit. The one on the right is a stone used to reshape the grinding wheel face flat. It's quick and easy and saves a lot of money over buying new wheels everytime they're glazed.

I apologize if you already have these and your just looking for better wheels.


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## PurpLev (Jun 21, 2012)

xalky said:


> Do you have a grinding wheel dresser?.


yes i do. i have a diamond dresser and can resurface my wheel just looking to see if there might be something better out there no need to apologize. good reference


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## swatson144 (Jun 21, 2012)

I like the  norton 38A60-IVBE for tool steel. I really don't bother with a coarser or finer as it cuts fast enough for me and smooth enough to hone quick. Mine is 8" on a 50$ grinder new with an 80G SC wheel on the other side for carbide.

I really can't comment on the other wheels since I know the Nortons work well and aren't cost prohibitive on Ebay. I hate to have to buy a 5 pack though.

Steve


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## AlbertNakaji (Jun 21, 2012)

have you had experience with the enco wheels? are they good? better than stock wheels? compared to the notron white wheels?
No experience with Enco wheels.



are the white wheels really better?
Have not used white wheels.



Should I look for 36x and 60x replacements? or should I look at 60x and 100x instead?
There's more to what you should consider than just grit.  Specifically, if you are getting clogging/glazing, that means the material you're grinding is too soft for the wheel (conversely, the wheel "hardness" is too high and does not shed fast enough).  Clogging means that the wheel is not wearing fast enough to prevent metal from being deposited between the grit.  Norton has information explaining what the appropriate wheel designation would be for different applications.  The grit has more to do with finish.



What do you have running on your grinder?
It depends on what I'm grinding.  Very soft material, such as aluminum, requires a very soft wheel.  Very hard material, such as tool steel, requires harder wheels (but not necessarily super hard).  I have several Norton wheels that are changed out depending on what is needed.


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## PurpLev (Jun 21, 2012)

swatson144 said:


> I like the  norton 38A60-IVBE for tool steel. I really don't bother with a coarser or finer as it cuts fast enough for me and smooth enough to hone quick. Mine is 8" on a 50$ grinder new with an 80G SC wheel on the other side for carbide.
> 
> I really can't comment on the other wheels since I know the Nortons work well and aren't cost prohibitive on Ebay. I hate to have to buy a 5 pack though.
> 
> Steve



Thanks for the response. sounds like a nice setup.



AlbertNakaji said:


> have you had experience with the enco wheels? are they good? better than stock wheels? compared to the notron white wheels?
> No experience with Enco wheels.
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks. I am mostly (99.99%) using this for HSS tooling and an occasional O2/A2/carbon steel touch ups (cleaning woodworking blades in bad shape quickly). so I need something rather hard to shape HSS Lathe tooling. I will check Nortons site, thanks for the pointer.


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## swatson144 (Jun 21, 2012)

PurpLev said:


> Thanks for the response. sounds like a nice setup.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I am mostly (99.99%) using this for HSS tooling and an occasional O2/A2/carbon steel touch ups (cleaning woodworking blades in bad shape quickly). so I need something rather hard to shape HSS Lathe tooling. I will check Nortons site, thanks for the pointer.



Actually you want something pretty soft for the harder materials so it sheds and keeps presenting fresh abrasive to the material.  If you are going to stay in the 6" wheels you may want to look around a K or J hardness. Slower the surface speed the softer the wheel acts. The problem with the stock wheels is they are too hard for hard material. They work fine on milder material like mower blades and bolts, but on HSS and harder they hold the abrasives until they get dull and you have to dress the wheel . Problem with 6" wheels is there isn't a whole lot of choices in them, they cost as much as an 8" wheel and by 8" standards are nearly worn slam out when installed :biggrin:.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NORTON-GRIN...080?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53ead5c288

Have you adapted to run wheels for 1 1/4" arbors? 

If so more choices here http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=38a+6&_sacat=11804&_odkw=38a&_sop=1&_osacat=11804 

Steve


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## PurpLev (Jun 21, 2012)

swatson144 said:


> Actually you want something pretty soft for the harder materials so it sheds and keeps presenting fresh abrasive to the material.  If you are going to stay in the 6" wheels you may want to look around a K or J hardness. Slower the surface speed the softer the wheel acts. The problem with the stock wheels is they are too hard for hard material. They work fine on milder material like mower blades and bolts, but on HSS and harder they hold the abrasives until they get dull and you have to dress the wheel . Problem with 6" wheels is there isn't a whole lot of choices in them, they cost as much as an 8" wheel and by 8" standards are nearly worn slam out when installed :biggrin:.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NORTON-GRIN...080?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53ead5c288
> 
> ...



Thanks again for the insights. I can always made bushings to fit whatever mounting hole is on the wheel (within reason I guess) on the lathe as long as the wheel is a good one. I've looked at these which are sized well, priced well and are J class:

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-White-Grinding-Wheel-P38C20.aspx


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## swatson144 (Jun 21, 2012)

Thanks for the source I book marked it.

Steve


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## DMS (Jun 21, 2012)

I am using CGW white wheels that I purchased from KBC. I'm sure others carry them as well. Great improvement over the stock wheels, which I felt were about as good as rubbing the work on the concrete outside. The wheels I have cut very fast. They are also pretty open, so they wear pretty fast, though I purchased 2 and am still working on the first.


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## DMS (Jun 21, 2012)

One other thing I might add, be carefully with coarse white wheels and woodworking tools. 36 cuts way too fast on them, and you are likely to remove half the tool before you know it (wonder how I found that out...). Might want to get a 36 for shaping HSS cutters, and a 100 for finish/sharpening.


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## AlbertNakaji (Jun 22, 2012)

> Actually you want something pretty soft for the harder materials so it  sheds and keeps presenting fresh abrasive to the material.  If you are  going to stay in the 6" wheels you may want to look around a K or J  hardness. Slower the surface speed the softer the wheel acts. The  problem with the stock wheels is they are too hard for hard material.  They work fine on milder material like mower blades and bolts, but on  HSS and harder they hold the abrasives until they get dull and you have  to dress the wheel .



Yes, I did not intend to imply that HSS/tool steel should be ground on hard wheels.  Less open than wheels used for aluminum, but relatively soft on the scale of wheel hardness.  It's precisely as explained, the wheel must shed off the abrasive to continue to present new abrasive to cut the metal.  Stock wheels are waayyyy to hard.  There is absolutely no question about that.  They're sold that way so that customers don't complain about the wheel wearing away so fast (and then think, "cheap wheel, junk product").  My wheels are about K, J and wear quite fast.  For junks, like rebar, I use the stock wheel.  For sharpening, they're about 60 or 80 grit, as I don't often need to grind away much for sharpening.


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## Rbeckett (Jun 22, 2012)

PurpLev said:


> Hi, I have been using the stock 6" wheels on my porter cable VS grinder until now, and am looking to upgrade those for something that runs cooler and keeps it's cutting surface fresher for a longer time (these stock wheels gets glazed and stop cutting real quick and start burning the cutting toolings I'm forming).
> 
> I've looked at the Norton White aluminum oxide wheels which run at ~$25 in local stores although found them also for half price online.
> 
> ...



I switched over to the pink wheels.  They are even good for cutting carbide and tungstens.  They are a buck or two more but dont glaze and definately keep a sharp grit showing all the time.  We used them to primarily sharpen carbide demo saw teeth and carbide stump grinder teeth with great success.  We also used them to dress and contour lathe bits and custom shaper bits in a molding cutter we fabbed for a local company.  Love em, never had one blow up or crack either.
Bob


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## PurpLev (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks for all the responses, some good info here!



DMS said:


> One other thing I might add, be carefully with coarse white wheels and woodworking tools. 36 cuts way too fast on them, and you are likely to remove half the tool before you know it (wonder how I found that out...). Might want to get a 36 for shaping HSS cutters, and a 100 for finish/sharpening.



agreed! I use slow wet grinding for setting bevels on those, but use the high speed for quickly clean up chipped blades (usually when restoring an old tool to usable condition) - doing 1 or 2 quick passes on it to generate a square and even edge that I then take to the wet grinder to set the bevel on



Rbeckett said:


> I switched over to the pink wheels.  They are even good for cutting carbide and tungstens.  They are a buck or two more but dont glaze and definately keep a sharp grit showing all the time.  We used them to primarily sharpen carbide demo saw teeth and carbide stump grinder teeth with great success.  We also used them to dress and contour lathe bits and custom shaper bits in a molding cutter we fabbed for a local company.  Love em, never had one blow up or crack either.
> Bob



Could you please post a link showing which wheel you are referring to? is this the norton pink wheel? other?


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## Chucketn (Jun 22, 2012)

I am following this thread closely. I have a Black and Decker 6" with the grey wheels. I want to know should I change the wheels on that  grinder and carry on or would I be ahead to get a second grinder for white or pink wheels?
How much trouble is it to change back and forth? Would I have to true up the wheels each time I changed?

Chuck


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## swatson144 (Jun 22, 2012)

chucketn said:


> I am following this thread closely. I have a Black and Decker 6" with the grey wheels. I want to know should I change the wheels on that  grinder and carry on or would I be ahead to get a second grinder for white or pink wheels?
> How much trouble is it to change back and forth? Would I have to true up the wheels each time I changed?
> 
> Chuck


  It depends on how much grinding you do. If you don't grind anything but HSS then switch it over for HSS. I have 3 grinders right now 2 6" and 1 8" because I hate changing wheels. You might get by with just putting a good wheel on one side of your grinder.

Steve


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## jocat54 (Jun 22, 2012)

I replaced one side of mine with a Norton white (100 grit I think) and it cuts much faster than the old grey ones. I do have to dress it pretty often though. It seems to glaze over pretty fast.


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## Rbeckett (Jun 23, 2012)

Purple,
Yes it is the Norton pink wheels.  They come in all sizes and shapes from 1/8X3 to 4X8.  I will look for a link to a generic one.  
Bob


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## xalky (Jun 23, 2012)

I also saw some norton blue wheels. Anybody using those?. 
I'm finding this thread to be very informative. Some more good links for the different wheels would be great.


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## Dave Smith (May 1, 2013)

Sharon I like a white wheel on one arbor and a diamond wheel on the other arbor--the white grinds nice and the diamond is good for your carbide tipped tools. the white wheels do wear a little quicker but I like them. when they need replacing I use the old ones to clean the diamond stone surface. Dave


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## PurpLev (May 1, 2013)

Dave, Thats a good use for the white wheel!


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## Dranreb (May 1, 2013)

I've been looking to get a couple of new wheels, so this thread has been very helpful, I came across these blue wheels, a tad pricey to say the least!

http://www.peterchild.co.uk/osc/bluewheel.php

Any thoughts on these? 

They would have to be good to justify spending that much!

Bernard


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## mrbreezeet1 (May 1, 2013)

PurpLev said:


> Tsized well, priced well and are J class:
> 
> http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-White-Grinding-Wheel-P38C20.aspx


I found that company to have the best price's too.


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## Ulma Doctor (May 1, 2013)

xalky said:


> I also saw some norton blue wheels. Anybody using those?.
> I'm finding this thread to be very informative. Some more good links for the different wheels would be great.




i have a 5 hp 3 phase 16" magnetic rotary table surface grinder , manufactured by Pieco .



i have a blue wheel on the unit now.
i use this machine primarily for resharpening hardened meat grinder extrusion plates,
 but it can flatten any ferrous metal from 1/8" thick to 16" thick and up to 16" in diameter.
 the surface grinder has an 8" diameter cup type grinding wheel that is 4" deep .
 it's a coolant fed beast , having a table that is electromagnetic and counter rotates to the direction of the grinding wheel . 
the magnetic rotating table turns at 100 rpm, the grinding wheel turns at 1725 prm.
the machine was built in the 70's and gets used 2 days a week, a good old workhorse.
 very accurate

the blue wheels give a fine finish, but have a tendency to load up moderately quickly.
i have used the pink wheels with great success as a side note.
grey wheels cut nicely, but seem to leave a coarser finish.


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## architard (May 1, 2013)

Sharon,
I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents as a fellow woodworker. In terms of touching up woodworking tools, I switched to the white Norton wheels sold by Lee Valley. They are relatively soft (Grade H) aluminum oxide and they run very cool. It's helped me from ruining the temper on many an expensive woodworking edge tool. They come in 80x and 120x. I buy the 80x.

These are highly friable. Meaning that they shed old material quickly to expose sharper grit. I believe this is a contributing factor which helps them run cooler than others. The obvious drawback to them is that they wear out pretty quickly and you have to dress often. However I only use this wheel on my woodworking tools, when I get a big nick, or have to change the angle of the tool. Otherwise I stick to my water stones.


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## PurpLev (May 1, 2013)

Thanks Kent, 

This is a rather old thread - I have since purchased a x60 blue wheel and a x150 white wheel that I've been using and they are both great - cut fast and cool HSS. haven't tried them on any woodworking blades yet, but I think they'll do just fine for rough shaping to speed things up before I take it to the slow water grinder for sharpening.


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## Splat (Jun 5, 2014)

PurpLev said:


> This is a rather old thread - I have since purchased a x60 blue wheel and a x150 white wheel that I've been using and they are both great - cut fast and cool HSS. haven't tried them on any woodworking blades yet, but I think they'll do just fine for rough shaping to speed things up before I take it to the slow water grinder for sharpening.



Hey Sharon. Digging this one up from the grave.   What exact wheels did you go with, please? Also, how do you like them now that you've been running them for a good while?


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