# Looks like I have a decision to make...



## J. Ruby (Jul 26, 2014)

Hey everyone! I came across the chance to purchase a used BP Series 1 for a pretty ridiculous price from a machinery dealer near my area (about 20 minutes away from me).The guy was super honest and told me it was far from pristine, but it worked fine mechanically. I couldn't care less about the paint job, but I want to make sure the thing will last me and do my job with precision. Guy wants $1700 for it. Or, he offered to sell a much nicer condition Supermax YC-1 1/2 at the price of $4000. The money isn't too much of an issue, but of course if I can score a real BP for 1700 bones and possibly have it rebuilt according to what it needs, then that would be sweet! I'm a greenhorn, let's not mistake that. I am making simple projects ( cast iron tattoo machine frames) and I will be honest that I don't know too much about machining. Did well in machine shop 17 years ago in high school, but haven't ran a mill in a long long time. Anyway, what are some things to look for and be wary of when I go check out the machines? On top of that, would it be easier/more rewarding (possibly cheaper too,lol) to get the Bridgy and have her refurbished if needed, or spend a little extra and get the Supermax clone. I'm taking in consideration availability of spare parts, etc. Let me know what you all think! And thanks for taking the time to read this long post. I really gotta shorten these up haha!

Jesse


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## xalky (Jul 26, 2014)

If the Bridgeport is in such rough shape that it needs to be refurbished, I'd stay away. If its mechanically sound then that's a decent price. I wouldn't consider a machine that is not usable in its current condition, it'll cost too much to have it refurbished, and should be bought for no more than the price of scrap, if its that far gone.


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## J. Ruby (Jul 26, 2014)

xalky said:


> If the Bridgeport is in such rough shape that it needs to be refurbished, I'd stay away. If its mechanically sound then that's a decent price. I wouldn't consider a machine that is not usable in its current condition, it'll cost too much to have it refurbished, and should be bought for no more than the price of scrap, if its that far gone.



Thanks for the advice! What are some things I should check for to see just how decent the Bridgeport is? Sorry for bombarding you with questions that may be hard to answer, but I will try to post a pic later


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## DMS (Jul 26, 2014)

To some extent prices vary by area. Genuine bridgeports tend to go for a premium over clones, and dealers tend to have a premium over private sellers. You get some extra security when going through a dealer though, whereas, if you go through a private seller, you are pretty much on your own. Does that price include freight? If the machine is in good mechanical condition, then that is a good deal. Only way to tell is to go look at it, and if possible, see if a friend that has more experience will go with you. Main things to check are the condition of the ways, and the head. Run the X and Y axis through their full range of travel. Specifically you are looking for looseness in the middle, and binding at the ends (due to un-even wear in the middle). Keep in mind the cost to move unless you plan on trying it yourself. I think I spent around $500 to move my machine (a bridgeport clone). Moving things that heavy is not trivial.

Is this a variable speed head? If so, run it through the full speed range in both normal and back-gears and listen for any bad sounds. Check for the feed handle. Look for any gross mechanical damage that indicates the thing was dropped or otherwise mistreated.

Another thing to think about is where you are going to put it if you get it. Check ceiling heights and door heights. Dis-assembling a mill that size to ease moving is possible, but each of the components is at least 200 pounds (with the main column running around 700lbs, so it's still not something you can toss around on your own. Also, if you are going to install this on a raised floor, it will need to be reinforced. If it is in a garage with a concrete slab floor, you should be golden.


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## alloy (Jul 26, 2014)

If you check everything like DMS said and it's in good mechanical condition and needs just a few small things you can do a lot yourself even without much experience.   There is so much information on Bridgeports and so many parts available it's pretty easy to find parts for them.  And you have American iron.  

 A few weeks ago I bought a 1962 step pulley Bridgeport for $1300 that looked pretty bad, but was in great shape mechanically.  And by the time I took the day off work to get it, a trailer rental, a forklift, and $50 in gas my $1300 mill cost me $1800 to get home.  Then I purchased a VFD to power it, and a digital readout for $600. So the costs add up quickly.  

You can see my thread in this forum under "Just picked up a BP"   It's been a lot of work cleaning, sanding, and painting it and a couple of small repairs but in the end I think it will be worth it and I'll be proud of the work I did on it.  It's a labor of love for me 

There are so many nice people on here you won't have a problem getting help with it.  I'm very thankful I joined here.


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## chuckorlando (Jul 26, 2014)

Out side of a broke casting your big concern is the ways. I would take a flat head with me and see if there is any gib adjustment left. How much back lash is in it. Most things are bolt on and thats no big deal. But you aint bolting on new ways. If they are not good you either need to learn to scrap or afford to have it done.

That goes for both machines. Just cause it looks nice dont mean it is and just cause it looks like scrap dont make it junk


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## J. Ruby (Jul 26, 2014)

Thanks guys! I appreciate the info on what to check and look out for. Now, as far as the Supermax YC-1 1/2 VA is concerned : any thoughts on it? It was built in 1996 (Taiwan). From the pic I can see, it is in much better condition than the BP, but then again until it is checked out, none of that matters. Just wanna know if they are a good machine, and how it compares in size to the BP. I know the table on it is 9"x49" and the BP is 9"x42"...to tell the truth I would like the smaller/lighter mill between the two, but as far as I know they are roughly the same size/weight. Any comments or advice is welcomed!

Jesse

P.S. Whatever mill I end up with is only going to be used to remove a small amount of cast iron on 3"x3"x1" little tattoo machine frames. Only removing about 1/8" to 3/16" of material on certain parts of the casting. All straight cuts. I'm a tattoo artist and this is solely to make my own frames and build my own tattoo machines.


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## AlanR (Jul 26, 2014)

J. Ruby said:


> P.S. Whatever mill I end up with is only going to be used to remove a small amount of cast iron on 3"x3"x1" little tattoo machine frames. Only removing about 1/8" to 3/16" of material on certain parts of the casting. All straight cuts. I'm a tattoo artist and this is solely to make my own frames and build my own tattoo machines.



You could easily do that with an RF31 style mill drill. Much smaller, lighter and cheaper. rf31 mill


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## drs23 (Jul 26, 2014)

J. Ruby said:


> Thanks guys! I appreciate the info on what to check and look out for. Now, as far as the Supermax YC-1 1/2 VA is concerned : any thoughts on it? It was built in 1996 (Taiwan). From the pic I can see, it is in much better condition than the BP, but then again until it is checked out, none of that matters. Just wanna know if they are a good machine, and how it compares in size to the BP. I know the table on it is 9"x49" and the BP is 9"x42"...to tell the truth I would like the smaller/lighter mill between the two, but as far as I know they are roughly the same size/weight. Any comments or advice is welcomed!
> 
> Jesse
> 
> P.S. Whatever mill I end up with is only going to be used to remove a small amount of cast iron on 3"x3"x1" little tattoo machine frames. Only removing about 1/8" to 3/16" of material on certain parts of the casting. All straight cuts. I'm a tattoo artist and this is solely to make my own frames and build my own tattoo machines.



Jesse,

You've made you're point quite clear from the beginning about what you are going to be doing. You don't need machine that big for tattoo guns. If you get a smaller mill and get smitten with the bug you can always upgrade...

But...$1700 is a good price if the machine isn't thrashed.


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## J. Ruby (Jul 26, 2014)

drs23 said:


> Jesse,
> 
> You've made you're point quite clear from the beginning about what you are going to be doing. You don't need machine that big for tattoo guns. If you get a smaller mill and get smitten with the bug you can always upgrade...
> 
> But...$1700 is a good price if the machine isn't thrashed.



Cool! I figured I would explain my intentions in case the other guys didn't see my other post that went into detail  about my plans. But I pretty much have come to the same conclusion. Something smaller will work and if I need bigger, so be it. I'm still gonna scope out the bridgeport because if it's in good condition, I'll probably nab it. Otherwise I'm going a tad smaller.


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## DMS (Jul 27, 2014)

Yeah, it may be overkill, but if you have the space, and it's in good order, you won't be disappointed.


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## drs23 (Jul 27, 2014)

DMS said:


> Yeah, it may be overkill, but if you have the space, and it's in good order, you won't be disappointed.



Agreed.


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## GK1918 (Jul 27, 2014)

My ten cents Jesse,  its the case when the opportunity knocks or you may be searching a long time.  I am a bigger is better guy, and for that price
we will expect wear somewhere because whoever bought the mill new, was not just to look at it, it was to put it to work.  Myself old school,  I
live with wear or worn out things even my shoes,  my back, worn bones, machine backlash and all the worn things in life.  Myself I wouldnt be
afraid as long as nothing is broken.  So you may be machining small parts today but it may change in the future I mean a little outside work for it.
At least you will have a mill,  that I suppose you could trade up or down if need be.  Like a lathe they all have wear in the middle where they get
used a lot, so you just work around the fact.  Like the old timers running totally worn out machines, backlash measured with a yard stick, but they
machined perfect parts...

sam


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## chuckorlando (Jul 27, 2014)

GK1918 said:


> My ten cents Jesse,  its the case when the opportunity knocks or you may be searching a long time.  I am a bigger is better guy, and for that price
> we will expect wear somewhere because whoever bought the mill new, was not just to look at it, it was to put it to work.  Myself old school,  I
> live with wear or worn out things even my shoes,  my back, worn bones, machine backlash and all the worn things in life.  Myself I wouldnt be
> afraid as long as nothing is broken.  So you may be machining small parts today but it may change in the future I mean a little outside work for it.
> ...



I tend to agree with this. My bridgeport needed shims. But I intended to learn to scrap before I got it so I did not care one bit. With shims in it it does get tight right at the end of the travel, but if I need it, I can still use it. I will tell ya right now, even shimmed up, I have more travel in every direction, more versatility, and just as tight as a china machine. And for the cost of a smaller import at that. I was a bit worried at first. But after some months using it, I would not change a dang thing. 

That being said, you could get a small import and do al you want to do now.

What really sold me on the BP over the import.... I can sale this BP in 30yrs, likely for what I payed for it. And still be able to get parts for it in that same 30

Now if I could find an old iron lathe


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## alloy (Jul 27, 2014)

I had considered getting a bench top mill for my transmission conversions.  It's big enough to do the job........barely.  My idea is buy a machine you can grow into, not out of. You can put a small part on a big machine, but not a big part on a small machine.   You will always find something you want to do that won't fit on the little machine.

Another reason I got a knee mill is that I'm always raising and lowering the knee to use my co-ax indicator.  Drop it down to get my hole location, then raise the knee to get the part up high enough that the quill isn't at full extension for a more rigid cutting.  But one problem with a round column bench mill, the column is round and when you raise and lower the head you lose your position.  There is no way to keep the head from rotating on the round column.  

And by the time I outfit a bench mill do do most of the things a knee mill will do, I've got as much in a Taiwan mill that's never worth what you put into it.  I know I can  least get my money back I've put into my Bridgeport, and like chuckorlando said, 30 years from now I can still get my money back from it even when it's 82 years old.  It's 52 now.


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## J. Ruby (Jul 27, 2014)

GK1918 said:


> My ten cents Jesse,  its the case when the opportunity knocks or you may be searching a long time.  I am a bigger is better guy, and for that price
> we will expect wear somewhere because whoever bought the mill new, was not just to look at it, it was to put it to work.  Myself old school,  I
> live with wear or worn out things even my shoes,  my back, worn bones, machine backlash and all the worn things in life.  Myself I wouldnt be
> afraid as long as nothing is broken.  So you may be machining small parts today but it may change in the future I mean a little outside work for it.
> ...





chuckorlando said:


> I tend to agree with this. My bridgeport needed shims. But I intended to learn to scrap before I got it so I did not care one bit. With shims in it it does get tight right at the end of the travel, but if I need it, I can still use it. I will tell ya right now, even shimmed up, I have more travel in every direction, more versatility, and just as tight as a china machine. And for the cost of a smaller import at that. I was a bit worried at first. But after some months using it, I would not change a dang thing.
> 
> That being said, you could get a small import and do al you want to do now.
> 
> ...



Did some measuring today at the shop and it looks like I won't have enough space to put the full sized bridgeport... The dimensions just won't let me do it...insert thumbs down and sad face lol. I'm still gonna go check her out and talk to the guy at the shop about finding me a smaller well made knee mill. He's got the connections around here, so we will see. Thank you guys for the input and I will keep you all updated. Looks like the PM-932 will fit just fine, and maybe even the bigger knee type PM-935, which looks really nice to me or a similar sized knee mill ( Clausing, Rockwell, etc. or their clones). Either way, one of these two machines will suit my needs fine I believe. Still going to do my research.

Jesse


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## DMS (Jul 28, 2014)

Too bad, but at least you found it out before you pulled it off the truck


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## J. Ruby (Jul 28, 2014)

DMS said:


> Too bad, but at least you found it out before you pulled it off the truck



Absolutely! What a pita that would have been haha


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## chuckorlando (Jul 28, 2014)

Nothing like 2000lb not fitting through the door ahahahaha


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## Marco Bernardini (Jul 28, 2014)

With this small suggestion your door problem will not be a problem anyway:

[video=youtube;7_QzqPI2Dn8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_QzqPI2Dn8[/video]

:biggrin:


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## samthedog (Jul 28, 2014)

Marco Bernardini said:


> With this small suggestion your door problem will not be a problem anyway:
> 
> [video=youtube;7_QzqPI2Dn8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_QzqPI2Dn8[/video]
> 
> :biggrin:



We used the hydraulic concrete saw in the fire service for USAR (urban search and rescue) applications. Our blades were slightly different because we could cut through metal with them as well which was necessary if the concrete was reinforced. Still, they were a great tool but came at a cost that only government could afford.

Paul.


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## goboughner (Aug 6, 2014)

A couple of years ago I was looking for a miller to repair the slot in the compound on my HF lathe which broke when I jammed my cut off tool in the stock. I could have picked up a bench top Mill that would have done the job. I happened to find an Index Super 55 on CL. I called the owner and he turned the mill on while we were talking. I couldn't hear it . I drove almost 100 miles with a borrowed trailer and fortunately he had a lift truck to load it. I bought a 2 ton chain hoist at HF on the way to the pick up, and had no problem unloading it on my shop floor. I've repaired the compound and made numerous tool and other projects and am glad I didn't settle for a bench top mill. It came with a swivel base 5" vise and a few end mills so I was off and running for $750. I wish I could post some photos of my shop. You may have enough room in your shop but not the amount they call for in the manual. The price of that BP sound great if it is usable.


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## goboughner (Aug 6, 2014)

For those that are not familiar with the Index Super 55 if you go to www.lathes.co.uk/index/ you can see some history on the Index 55 and if you scroll done after it's loaded you will see pictures of my Mill. The mill is still supported by Wells-Index in Muskegon, Michigan. After I contacted them they even sent me a copy of the info card for the mill with a shipping date of 3/29/1956 and a gross price of $2371.53. I also ordered a manual for $42.
Jerry


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