# PM saws are (NOT) Made by Baileigh



## projectnut (Nov 15, 2022)

I was looking for some information on my Baileigh cold saw this afternoon and happened to type in the number of a switch.  Low and behold it came up in a manual for a Precision Mathews 315 cold saw. As it turns out PM cold saws are made by Baileigh. The features and manuals are identical down to the numbers and illustrations of individual parts.  The Baileigh CS-315EU is identical to the PM CS-315 cold saw.  The only difference I can see is the Baileigh model lists for $3225.00 while the PM model lists for $2399.00.

PM Cold Saw





						CS-315 Cold Saw, 12.5″, Single Speed – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.
					






					www.precisionmatthews.com
				




Baileigh Cold Saw





						Cold Saw Manually Operated CS-315-EU  | Baileigh Industrial
					

Baileigh Industrial CS-315 manually operated cold saw comes with a powerful coolant pump that cools the blade and washes chips away. Purchase one Today!




					www.baileigh.com
				




*On Edit:  Since when do members, or even moderators of this forum get to edit other members posts.  If you don't agree with what's posted respond to it with accurate contradictory information.  The title was edited by someone to say the PM saws are (NOT MADE) by Baileigh, and the text was changed in the same manner.

Moderator Edit: *Misleading info edited. Please do not re-edit until you can provide valid proof of the statement.


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## pontiac428 (Nov 15, 2022)

I don't think Baileigh or PM make anything at all.  They spec and import machines from factories all over China, assemble a manual, put on a brand decal, and market them to you.  No coincidences here, just China's uncanny ability to make anything in a rainbow of quality levels indiscernible from the packaging.  Is a PM tool accessory like the B&S knockoff dividing head any better than the ebay China dividing head?  Hell if I know, but the price sure is different, even if everything appears the same.  Baileigh has imported some good stuff over the years, and people are happy with PM's service (the homegrown product they may actually sell is service), but because of where the stuff comes from, what use is there in splitting hairs about what name is on the decal after it hit land over here?  It's not like they made it themselves to give the name some weight.


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## rodm1 (Nov 15, 2022)

All the lower cost machines are made by a third party with slight changes. 

This isn't Jets web sight but the mill is.





						RongFu Mill Drill Machine Manufacturer - Taiwan Brand
					

Mill Drill Machine Maker - We Supply Global Brands with OEM Drilling Machines - North America / Europe and More. Contact Now.




					rongfu.com


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## francist (Nov 15, 2022)

Not to get sidetracked but that RongFu website is pretty decent. Good specifications on the machines as well as some fairly well written tech articles for those new to milling machines. Basic, but useful nonetheless.


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## projectnut (Nov 16, 2022)

According to the "Shop Tool News" Baileigh was bought out by JPW Industries in 2019.  Up until that time their tools were manufactured in Manitowoc and Two Rivers Wisconsin.   As we know today that could mean "assembled in the USA from internationally sourced parts".









						JPW Industries Acquires Baileigh Industrial Holdings
					

Announced May 13, 2019, JPW Industries acquires Baileigh Industrial, expanding the brand with “made-in-the-USA” Baileigh-branded metalworking machinery.




					shoptoolreviews.com
				




I'm not sure where any of them are made today, but if you visit their website, they claim many of their tools are still made in the USA.






						Baileigh Industrial - Metalworking & Woodworking Machinery | Baileigh Industrial
					

Baileigh Industrial is an international provider of quality metal machinery. Our proven industry leadership results in profitable solutions for your fabricating needs.




					www.baileigh.com


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## pontiac428 (Nov 16, 2022)

I don't have anything against Baileigh, they sell good equipment and always have.  But they are not made in USA tools.  This is Baileigh's Manitowoc site.  It's a distro facility and a showroom, as seen in their "about Baileigh" video.  Tiny parking lot, no industrial ventilation on the roof, no backup generators or stacks visible, no castings in the yard being seasoned.  This is not what a factory building for machinery looks like.  

I'll repeat myself for effect, Baileigh is a good company, but they still import their goods.


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## darkzero (Nov 16, 2022)

projectnut said:


> On Edit: Since when do members, or even moderators of this forum get to edit other members posts. If you don't agree with what's posted respond to it with accurate contradictory information. The title was edited by someone


Moderators have every right (always have) to edit someone's post if needed, member's can not edit another member's post.

Please do not post false information, especially regarding one of our site sponsors. If you believe your info to be factual regarding "PM cold saws are made by Baileigh", please provide your source.


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## darkzero (Nov 16, 2022)

I was going to give @projectnut adequate time to provide a credible source regarding the matter. However this thread is already showing up in search engines so the OP will be edited AGAIN. *Do not remove the moderator edits until you can provide evidence of your statement.*

Based on the assumption that PM's cold saw are manufactured by Baileigh simply based on the 2 machines sharing a part with the same p/n is not credible info. Commonly with import machinery, many brands offer the same or similar models that are made by contract manufacturers. The Baileigh & PM cold saws (and other machinery) could very well be made by the same CM or may not. They could be identical or they can have different features as requested to be produced.

There are many brands offering cold saws with the CS-315 model number. This does not mean Jet, Bolton, Hafco, Eximus, and others are made by Baileigh

I am 99.999% sure the PM & Baileigh cold saws are not manufactured by Baileigh. QMT/PM is one of our site sponsors, so this can be easy. @qualitymachinetools @MikeWi Matt and/or Mike, could you please verify? (I believe Mike works for QMT?)

Attached is the primary reason why the OP was edited. It is showing up on search engines now showing the misleading thread title. Notice the search phrase & the immediate results. Not everyone searching the internet will click on links & read further details.
(Screenshot attached rather than embedded for the sake that only H-M registered viewers are able to see it)

@projectnut if you still do not agree as to why the OP was edited, please feel free to contact a Staff member to discuss. Thank you for your understanding.


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## pontiac428 (Nov 16, 2022)

Hard to argue with that example of unintended consequences, a community-facing forum, and respecting a paying sponsor who is suddenly getting bad press due to search engine crawlers.  I know I often forget that nothing is private.  Especially my opinions, I make a point to make those public from my own little soap box.  It's easy to forget that we all represent the forum when it comes to search engine results.


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## qualitymachinetools (Nov 17, 2022)

Just replying since asked to clear it up. I have no problem with the OP, only doing this because I was asked to. Its best to have all the info out there for all sides.
  Yes, our PM Cold Saws are made in Taiwan. (Taiwan, NOT China) However, Baileigh does not make our saws. But it looks like they also have their saws made in Taiwan from their listings online and they certainly look similar if not the same. But I run in to that with band saws, at least 5 companies in Taiwan make the same saw that looks like an Amada, but they are all just a little bit different.

 I do not know their source, we are not given information about another company, the same as they would not be given information about what we do. I've been to the factory and they do produce saws for other companies in the world, but I did not see any Baileigh saws there at the time. There is so much more to just putting a label and making a manual, but thankfully Cold Saws are pretty basic, so not really a whole lot more with these.

 We have certain models of machines and accessories that we own the production in Taiwan, so we do essentially make some items if you look at it like that, but we do not own anything with the cold saws, we just contract these out.

darkzero already pretty much said what I did, missed that, all cleared up.     All good


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## qualitymachinetools (Nov 17, 2022)

When is JPW going to buy us out for many many many millions?       Kidding, that will not ever happen. If I had too much money and nothing to do, I wouldn't live very long. We get offers often, thats just not how I work.


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## rabler (Nov 17, 2022)

Obviously a delicate issue.  I understand that the site has a responsibility to maintain some quality control, especially with regard to content related to it's supporters.  I also understand why @projectnut or any other forum member might be offended if their own words are modified, especially if that was done so without a clear notification that it was modified content.  Changing someone's words without making it clear they were edited,  even if they are false, is certainly delicate.   I think most of us that post here would be offended if our posts were _randomly_ modified.  Of course, news agents do that all the time, sound bites out of context.


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## matthewsx (Nov 17, 2022)

I love the moderation on this site, and understand the moderators are human like the rest of us. These days when so much of what we see on the internet is suspect this place is a blessing.

Our forum sponsors are also top notch as demonstrated in this thread.

John


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## projectnut (Nov 17, 2022)

qualitymachinetools said:


> Just replying since asked to clear it up. I have no problem with the OP, only doing this because I was asked to. Its best to have all the info out there for all sides.
> Yes, our PM Cold Saws are made in Taiwan. (Taiwan, NOT China) However, Baileigh does not make our saws. But it looks like they also have their saws made in Taiwan from their listings online and they certainly look similar if not the same. But I run in to that with band saws, at least 5 companies in Taiwan make the same saw that looks like an Amada, but they are all just a little bit different.
> 
> I do not know their source, we are not given information about another company, the same as they would not be given information about what we do. I've been to the factory and they do produce saws for other companies in the world, but I did not see any Baileigh saws there at the time. There is so much more to just putting a label and making a manual, but thankfully Cold Saws are pretty basic, so not really a whole lot more with these.
> ...


Thank you for clearing this up.  I had no intention to disparage you or anyone else.  My statement was based on researching the web for a switch to fit my machine.  As luck would have it the search turned up an owner's manual for your CS-350 cold saw.  Going down the parts list I found it to be almost identical to the Baileigh CS-350EU saw.  The lists not only have identical part numbers, but they also have identical parts descriptions.  A few of them stuck out as poor translations from one language to another.  A couple examples are parts #A6 and #A7.  In both manuals A6 is referred to as "Drainage", and part #A7 is referred to as "Rubber".  Part #A6 in English would more correctly be referred to as a "Drain Fitting. while part #A7 would be a "rubber gasket" that fits between the drain fitting and the base of the saw.

The similarities of the physical pictures of the machines, and the parts used led me to believe they were manufactured by the same company.  In this case I errantly assumed that company was Baileigh since their website leads customers to believe their machines are still bult in the USA.  While the text doesn't actually say that the graphic on their home page shows a machine with a Made In USA sticker.

This may be an oversight on their part in that some machines may still be "assembled" in the USA. It appears that in the past some of their tools were made by Rusch Design and Fabrication out of Two Rivers Wisconsin.  This is based on the fact that Rusch did hold patents on some features of tube bending and notching machines.  Rusch was bought out by Baileigh in 2018, and Baileigh was bought out by JPW in 2019.  Rusch Design and Fabrication is now permanently closed.  My guess is that JPW has now moved the majority of its machine production to other less expensive manufacturers primarily in Tiawan.   

Please accept my apologies for the misstatement and the confusion it has caused.


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## qualitymachinetools (Nov 18, 2022)

Yeah that Baileigh saw isn't made or even assembled in the USA, that's for sure. In the past they definitely did have some machines like you mention made in the USA, I used to be impressed by that. But I guess that went away. 

So much B.S. with that, I see it more and more. So many slogans out there about made in USA. I get it, some parts are just not available in the US, but if everything is made somewhere and you put a screw in here, that don't count. 

That is very interesting about That Rusch Design making some of their products, but now closed. Wonder who makes them now.

Seems like the same kind of thing I see over and over with companies. Some big investment group comes in, buys a company out. Has no clue what goes on at that company, sends mfg somewhere as cheap as possible, then bad products but going on the name for a while until the reputation is dead, and done.     I keep seeing it happening with these hand tool brands, it makes me sick. 

 You want to cut costs? Invest in automation, don't send it to China. Yes most of our items are made in Taiwan and China now, but I didn't start here and send it over. Stay tuned, it won't be like that forever here. I like making things.

 Little info I found below, JPW Bought Baileigh, this place now owns JPW:

_JPW is a *Gamut Capital Management* portfolio company. Terms of the transaction were not disclosed. Based in Wisconsin and founded in 1999, Baileigh is a leading marketer, manufacturer and distributor of over 500 metalworking and woodworking products sold under the Baileigh® brand across the U.S. and Europe._

Sounds like more wall street financial slicked back hair type investment people. (That's what I call them, nothing against anyone here from New York!) 

Put money in, who cares what happens as long as there is a return on money, investors happy.

Same thing as I believe REIT are screwing everyone. Commercial real estate is insane. These REIT people come in, take a lot of industrial park property, build these massive buildings and get ridiculous amounts of money in rent. Prices are driven up for companies like us who want to buy and build. Who cares, Investors happy, woohoo look what we did. 

 People ask me if I get worried when places like this get bought out and combine to get larger. I laugh, nope. Look at Sears / Craftsman tools.

 Its just like the 3rd generation family business owners I see. Grandpa started it with all his heart, sacrificed to get it going. Dad took it over with similar passion. Grew up with Grandpas hardships, so was not spoiled.     3rd generation raised by Dad who did well and spoiled them, gave them what he never had.     3rd generation grows up spoiled, no passion for the business but likes money money money. Makes decisions for today, money money money, no work just want money, place is sold off of goes under. Not every time, but I see it often.

Anyway enough time here blabbing, I have work to to. All good here, hopefully one day we can all get together and have a beer in real life!


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## pontiac428 (Nov 18, 2022)

I am guessing that Baileigh bought out Rusch Design, because they boast a facility in Two Rivers (practically next door) on their site, but when I searched for Baileigh in Two Rivers to see their facility, nothing came up.

(time passes)

Nope, Rusch is now a shop called the Metal Ware Corp.  No Baileigh factory there.  Man, I was hoping to see paint booth air handlers on the roof and hoppers full of metal chips in the yard, but this just supports the argument that they took their manufacturing elsewhere.

I wish I hadn't looked at their web site, the home shop sized manual bender that helped them grow prior to selling out is now priced at $3200.  The first time I looked into that bender, it was $1200.  Gotta post those quarterly earnings reports to please the shareholders, I guess.


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## pdentrem (Nov 18, 2022)

“Its just like the 3rd generation family business owners I see. Grandpa started it with all his heart, sacrificed to get it going. Dad took it over with similar passion. Grew up with Grandpas hardships, so was not spoiled. 3rd generation raised by Dad who did well and spoiled them, gave them what he never had. 3rd generation grows up spoiled, no passion for the business but likes money money money. Makes decisions for today, money money money, no work just want money, place is sold off of goes under. Not every time, but I see it often.”

Local dealership owner had a heart attack and was away for a few months. Owners son took over and….
The dealership employed a retired veteran to do the pick ups and drop off, plus bank, parts runs. This would allow the others to continue doing their jobs and made the vet some good bucks. The son saw the vet sweeping the floor and said why are we paying you to do this? Vet said bye bye. Owner came back and blew a gasket on the son and hired the guy back.


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