# Quick Change tooling for PM25



## T Bredehoft (Aug 6, 2019)

I've been tearing my (whats left of it) hair out, trying to come up with a quick change tooling system for my PM 25.  I fondly remember the CAT40 system my previous employer had, but no one makes it for an R8 spindle. I did find this:








						Royal R8 Quick-Change Tooling System
					

Offering a huge selection of industrial tool sales online. Find over 100,000 metalworking products, precision measuring tools, power tools & accessories.




					www.penntoolco.com
				



which  would work admirably, but they want to retire on  just one sale and I cannot justify that kind of expenditure. 

Does anyone have anything that could be adapted (and not break Social Security's bank) that I could either modify or make myself? I can't do OD grinding, but possilby could use unground products, if only I had prints to work from.

Given prints, and time, I might be able to turn out more than one set...


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## DarrylN (Aug 6, 2019)

related thread
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/r8-quick-change-collets.66913/


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## T Bredehoft (Aug 6, 2019)

Thanks, DarrylN, I must have been sleeping when that discussion went by last year. I'm going to do some studying and try to make my own. One R8 Adapter and a couple of ER16 collet holders, at least.

_Edit: _correct typo.


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## RJSakowski (Aug 6, 2019)

T Bredehoft said:


> I've been tearing my (whats left of it) hair out, trying to come up with a quick change tooling system for my PM 25.  I fondly remember the CAT40 system my previous employer had, but no one makes it for an R8 spindle. I did find this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tom,
The Tormach TTS system uses a ER16, ER20, or ER32 adapter which mounts in a 3/4" R8 collet.  The adapter seats on the spindle face which provides an accurate and repeatable z registration. Tools can be mounted and tool offsets entered off line. In addition to the ER collet chucks, adapters for drill chucks, end mill holders, and boring heads are available. This makes tool changes. quick and easy.

The downside is that to be used effectively requires multiple adapters; at least enough to mount all the tooling needed for a particular project.  I started with the deluxe package which had three ER20 chucks, eight assorted end mill holders, six drill chucks, and a boring bar holder.  I have since added an additional seven ER20 chucks.  It is a significant investment but IMO well worth it.  I don't use an ATC  but it would be a necessity if I did.

In addition to the Tormach 770, I use it on my mill/drill.  It required a modification an R8 collet; basically removing some material from the nose of the collet so the adapter makes contact with the spindle face.  Tormach has a white paper which describes the process of conversion to the TTS system, including truing the spindle face.


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## shooter123456 (Aug 6, 2019)

I use TTS holders and an air cylinder for tool changes.  Each change takes only a few seconds and the push of a button.  The holders have gotten a little bit more expensive recently, but there are a few cheaper options, and it is possible to make a few yourself if you want.


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## T Bredehoft (Aug 6, 2019)

Thanks for everyone's advice/suggestions, I've about decided to make my own.  If I can't all I'm out is some labor, and that's pretty cheap around here.  If successful, I may have some drawings to add to the pile of what's available.


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## Bob Korves (Aug 6, 2019)

The low budget answer is to use straight shank tooling in your collets.  Stick with only 2 or 3 straight shank sizes, say 3/8", 1/2", and 3/4", or just 3/8" and 3/4" everywhere possible.  Put a 3/8" straight shank on your 3/8" drill chuck, and a 3/4" shank on your 5/8" drill chuck.  Have end mills with shanks having those same shank sizes.  All the other tooling as well.  You will still have to whack on the draw bar to change tools, but will not have to unscrew the collet and then screw in another one constantly.  The straight shanks on the tooling should be short, only an inch or less, to be able to swap them out and in tight setups and without moving the head up and down.  Accuracy will still be pretty good, and can be even better than either the spindle, the collet, and the straight shank tool if you mark their rotational high points on them permanently and then clock them opposite when installing them, for fussy jobs only.  Try to set up your tooling so that what you need for smaller work will nearly all be done with one size collet, same for medium and larger work.  The final bonus is that if you ever switch away from a R8 machine, your tooling will already be compatible with the new machine.  Straight shanks rule!


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## T Bredehoft (Aug 6, 2019)

I'm drawing up an R8 base with a holder/driver in the end and numerous tool holders  (collets) that will fit into the R8 and somehow snap or be quickly clamped into place, ie., spot drill,. tap drill, tap. I'm talking 4-40 or 5-40, nothing large. I haven't solved the problem of holding the tool unit in place, but something will come.


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## TomS (Aug 7, 2019)

T Bredehoft said:


> I'm drawing up an R8 base with a holder/driver in the end and numerous tool holders  (collets) that will fit into the R8 and somehow snap or be quickly clamped into place, ie., spot drill,. tap drill, tap. I'm talking 4-40 or 5-40, nothing large. I haven't solved the problem of holding the tool unit in place, but something will come.



You mention that you are looking for a system that "snap or be quickly clamped into place".  I use the Ultron Snap Change tool changer that does exactly that.  Once it's setup it takes 1/4" of quill up travel to release the holder and 1/4" of down travel to lock it in.

Here are a couple of pictures of my setup.


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## RJSakowski (Aug 7, 2019)

Using a collet to hold a tool has the problem of variable seating depth.  As the collet is drawn tighter, it moves the tool upward slightly.  This requires setting a new tool height with every change.  It isn't too bad with a DRO with subdatums. 

edit: removed some content erroneously added.


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## T Bredehoft (Aug 7, 2019)

RJSakowski said:


> Using a collet to hold a tool has the problem of variable seating depth.



Its a manual machine, Tool depth isn't all that important, but putting a .047 drill in a chuck after removing a 3/16 spot drill tends to put the drill in crooked. this won't happen with quick change tooling.


TomS said:


> I use the Ultron Snap Change tool changer



I looked at that, again, my shop doesn't generate money, so I'm looking for really inexpensive tooling. If I can fabricate something from material I have on hand, my cost is zero. The work needed is entertainment for myself.


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## bakrch (Aug 7, 2019)

Also a fan of the TTS holders. I grabbed a 3MT to 3/4" end mill adapter and use them in my lathe as well.  They will wear out faster this way with a set screw pushing into the money surface (need to stone them here and there), but they're cheap enough that I do not care.


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## shooter123456 (Aug 7, 2019)

T Bredehoft said:


> I'm drawing up an R8 base with a holder/driver in the end and numerous tool holders  (collets) that will fit into the R8 and somehow snap or be quickly clamped into place, ie., spot drill,. tap drill, tap. I'm talking 4-40 or 5-40, nothing large. I haven't solved the problem of holding the tool unit in place, but something will come.


You might want to look at the tool holders Dave Decaussin made for his UMC-10 mill.  It uses the R8 taper and a pedal clamp similar to the BT30 tool holders.  Sounds like you might be able to make something similar. 

These are them.


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## TomS (Aug 7, 2019)

T Bredehoft said:


> Its a manual machine, Tool depth isn't all that important, but putting a .047 drill in a chuck after removing a 3/16 spot drill tends to put the drill in crooked. this won't happen with quick change tooling.
> 
> 
> I looked at that, again, my shop doesn't generate money, so I'm looking for really inexpensive tooling. If I can fabricate something from material I have on hand, my cost is zero. The work needed is entertainment for myself.



Understood.  However, I picked up my system for $150 used.  I added a few tool holders as needed.  Craigslist and eBay can be your friend.


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