# New to me and some VFD help needed



## 14617TKX (Jul 10, 2011)

13" x 6 foot bed, I believe it has the hardened and ground ways. Just got it into the shop, trying to decide to put a 220V single phase motor on it or go the VFD route. Any way here is the pertinent info. It has a 2 HP 1725 RPM motor in it now and since Florida flicker and flash will not bring 3 phase to the house I am looking for some one to help guide me through the VFD route.

14617TKX Catalog # CLC145C Bed length 6'

In my lathes case the X for special probably means the fact is it has a 4 step drive pulley,,, maybe also it has a D-1 chuck. Photo's one of these days once I get the clutter undone!

Any one that wants to help/advise on a VFD please email me.

Thanks
John


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## Pacer (Jul 10, 2011)

Yes, do read thru the electrical section under the VFD heading. There are multiple postings and should that should give a good grasp of at least the basics.

Some quick general info -- A VFD is a really nice option over the rotarys &amp; static converters, and the cost has become much easier to take (a 2hp version shud be in the $200 range, maybe less) The variable speed is the greatest thing since sliced bread!

While there are many brand names out there, there seem to be 2 that posters on the forums consistently go to - TECO &amp; Hitachi. While a first time user can be a bit unsure about following the manuals (and taken as a whole are a bit overwhelming) but, in the end the hook up for a HSM'er is only a few steps and as Turbo says, with the help of the forum here, it should go smoothly.


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## 14617TKX (Jul 10, 2011)

Hello Ed and others,
   I have printed all of the info I can find and been reading and going over it in my head as there seems to be conflicting info out there;

  Size of VFD vs HP of motor, one thing I remember is somewhere it was said to get a VFD rated for two times the HP of the motor. In my case that would mean a 4 HP VFD for my lathes 2hp motor. 

 I would like to buy a VFD and at a later date hook up things more than the basic units three phase generation so I want one with the capabilities for all of the bells and whistles even though it may be a while till I get them hooked up.

I see braking being refered to, is this using the motor as a brake or activating a foot brake found on some engine lathes.

Any suggestions on brand and where to buy along with specials as they come up please feel free to advise.

G'Day
John


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## Pacer (Jul 10, 2011)

Apparently, at one time there was a factor in needing to increase the VFD rating over the HP, but of the dozens of post I've read on VFD installs they all just used the HP size. Only reason I can see to increase the VFD rating would be if, say, you had an existing 1hp motor and later would like to change to a 2hp.

If you get as far as getting the motor to run off the VFD, the the other "bells &amp; whistles" would take maybe another 10 minutes. I can think of 3 just off hand -- Increasing the frequency you would like the motor to run at on top end - say from 60hertz to 75, or 90, or...(I have mine set at 75hertz) the other 2 are the time in seconds you would like the motor to accelerate and brake. The factory default is 10sec and that is way to long, seems most of us set both somewhere around 2sec - these are functions that you program the VFD to perform.


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## jmm03 (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi , as Pacer commented,some,newer style VFD's do not require that you derate the size of the VFD if you are using it in a single phase to three phase application,however,you would probably be well served to research the specific drive you are thinking of using as to its particular requirements.I have installed drives that recommended a 3X derating factor and some that needed a 2X factor.It can get a little expensive if you have a 2hp motor and you need to put a 5hp drive on it. Most applications that will see lighter loads you can "fudge" on the low side,but if your going to do real heavy work alot you run the chance of overloading the drive,heat dissipation being the main problem. I have also run drives with a 1X factor,(a 2hp drive on a 1hp motor)but it was on a pump application that ran intermittently with no problems. Hope this helps some. Jim


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## 14617TKX (Jul 18, 2011)

*Update -->  New to me and some VFD help needed*

Well here goes, after quite a bit of studying and some others thoughts from here and other places this morning I will be ordering a Hatachi    X200-015NFU . I'l keep yall advised of my progress! 

G'Day
John


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## 14617TKX (Jul 20, 2011)

That is one of the reasons I went with the Hitachi, as the manual is online and as I learned more about VFD's and was reading forty pages I printed of the Hitachi manual once I sorted out which model to get for my requirements. A call to the state rep for Hitachi who said for up to 5HP I shouldn't have to increase the size of VFD versus the motor HP size was one of the other reasons for my decision. It should be here on Thursday and hopefully between a off Friday and the weekend I should be able to get it hooked up and then I will know for sure. Will keep you folks aware of the progress.

G'Day
John


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## 14617TKX (Jul 31, 2011)

Well the VFD is in place and power is hooked up to it. However at this point I'm not exactly sure how to proceed. I'm aware that the drum switch that the line 1, 2, and 3 used to come into should not be in the circuit. The motor plate shows for low power (230Volts) 3&9 should be joined, 2&8 should be joined and 1&7, 6&5&4 should be joined and that is how it is. I'm missing how to control direction. The VFD is a Hitachi X-200 and they have the manual on Hitachi's web site. It's been a long time since I was schooled on three phase and I am probably forgetting a very basic thing. I have pictures that I can send to someone willing to help me sort this out or let me know what info is needed. I also have all of the Data off of the motor plate if needed.

G'Day
John


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## 14617TKX (Jul 31, 2011)

Here are some pics,


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## 14617TKX (Jul 31, 2011)

Another


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## 14617TKX (Jul 31, 2011)

Here is the info on the data plate;
DYNA CORP                             04819592 is stamped on the lower LH corner
CAT P2       LOW VOLT 3+9   6+5+4
DATE K3              2+8
HP 2                 1+7
FRAME 145T
AMPS 6.6/3.3
PHASE 3
RPM 1725
VOLTS 230/460
MAX AMB 40'
TYPE PM
INSUL B


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## 14617TKX (Jul 31, 2011)

Here is the switch,,,, I have the output from the VFD attached to nothing yet output from the vfd is green ground #1 output is white, #2 output is black, #3 output is white with black mark


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## 14617TKX (Jul 31, 2011)

Another


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## 14617TKX (Jul 31, 2011)

info you can't read due to glare posted in earlier post


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## 14617TKX (Jul 31, 2011)

I have read that nothing should be between the VFD output and the motor. Part of me feels that the three phase output should go into the drum switch as L1 L2&amp; L3 as labled so you can have stop foward and reverse.

Single phase 230V into the top terminals is correct

The wires coming out of the VFD on the bottom are/should ( have no way to ascertain if three phase, just able to tell if 230 volts) be three phase

So I am going to connect VFD output to L1, L2 &amp; L3 terminals on the switch after I set/check the settings per the instructions. May be a day or two till I get to it as another work week starts early and thirteen hour days doesn't leave time for much else till maybe Friday or Saturday.


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## Tony Wells (Jul 31, 2011)

For reversing a 3 phase motor, you just swap any two legs on the supply. The VFD is fully capable of that, so you will not need the drum switch. Wire directly to the VFD.


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## MarkBall2 (Jul 31, 2011)

Don't put anything between the VFD & motor. The motor hooks up to the bottom side of the VFD, input power hooks up to the top of the VFD. If the motor doesn't turn correct rotation, swap the two outside wires on the bottom of the VFD. 

Or just use your programming to reverse it.

Using remote switches can be done &amp; is explained in the programming manual.


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## HMF (Aug 1, 2011)

I have some PDFs that might help you, unfortunately buried in the SB "How to" section of our Downloads area. I am going to post them here. 

Please offer any comments on them as far as them working, etc.


Thanks,
Nelson


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## 14617TKX (Aug 1, 2011)

Well I'm going to try to find some time this week to crack the manual open again and try to develop a plan of attack for the upcoming weekend when I will try to hook up a switch for reversing the motor direction. Yall's help and words of advice are appreciated. Will let you know how it progresses.


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## Tony Wells (Aug 1, 2011)

You do understand that the VFD control handles forward/reverse switching, right? There is absolutely no reason to add a switch for that purpose. In fact, the sudden high current event that occurs if you happen to want to switch directions by using a drum type switch can and probably would ruin the VFD. They are dependent on information derived from the back EMF that you would definitely interfere with by putting any sort of switch between the motor and the VFD.

Everyone here has indicated that you shouldn't put anything between them, and yet you seem determined to do so. May I ask why? What is it that you hope to gain? Perhaps if we understood, we could offer some safer alternative.


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## Pacer (Aug 1, 2011)

Poor John, you must be on overload with information by now - too much!!

I get the feeling you are on the right track and will probably be all right. At the risk of causing more confusion. I'll offer this picture of my Hitachi hook-up - it should be like yours - and point out where the wires go..

Along the bottom -- on the left are the 3 incoming 220v 1ph wires (L1 L2 & N) I put a 220v 20amp simple on/off toggle in this wire to turn power to the VD on and off. Next to them on the right are the 3 - now changed to 3ph wires (T1-2-3) going to the motor. If you only hook these wires up, the VFD will run the motor with the controls on the unit, but it will only run in one direction using the on/off buttons (which you can change by crossing any 2 of the L1-2-3 wires) To benefit of the many functions of the VFD, they have to be programmed into the unit and controlled with the top row of connections... 

At the top, the 3 small wires (PCS - 1 & 2) are going to (in my case) an on-off-on switch that is reverse in down, off in center and fwd in up. I use the pot on the VFD panel to control my speed. 

Hopefully a picture will help --- and my attempt at pulling from memory and explaining the connections are reasonably accurate....


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## 14617TKX (Aug 14, 2011)

Turn, turn, turn, finally. Last weekend had to travel out of town for the funeral of a Army buddy and this weekend finally got things hooked up and applied power and the lathe is alive. Have the very basic program for FWD STOP REV done and the hooking up of a switch for this. Later also intend to program in and set up braking and hook up a E STOP. Now to finish a little bit of clean up and order some more BXA holders, and a few other things for this lathe and start on that long last of projects that have been put off. Next will be hooking up a VFD to Bridgeport number two and getting it running. Then get myself DRO's hooked up to a mill and then this lathe. Thanks all for your advice and patience. In a few weeks I will post some pics but next weekend I will be out trying to convince some deer to come stay in my freezer.


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