# Pm-932 Cnc Conversion Build



## techbuilder (Dec 2, 2016)

Hi everybody.

I thought I would start the Journey of my build based on the recommendation from TomS.

I've listed some of the parts I have down below and a list of what I need to finish the build.

*Parts Purchased*:
2x 1600 oz Stepper motors for the X and Y axis 
2x 60v 350 watt power supply for the steppers
3x KL-8070D Digital Bipolar Stepper Motor Driver-32 bit DSP Based
1x SmoothStepper CNC Motion Controller
3x 6061 Aluminum for the motor mounts

*Parts Needed:*
1x Nema 42 4200 oz Stepper motor for the Z axis
2x DQ2722MA 220V power supply/stepper controller if needed for the Z axis if the KL-8070D doesn't work
3x RM2005 Ballscrews with dual ball nut.
3x Double Diaphragm Coupler

If there's anything I'm missing please feel free to let me know.


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## jbolt (Dec 2, 2016)

Awesome, another PM932 build. 

Additional items:

Breakout board (BoB) to interface between the smooth stepper, steppers and computer. (I highly recommend the PMDX products. I have the PMDX-126 BoB & Ethernet Smooth Stepper)

Enclosure for your electronics.

Cables & connectors for the stepper motors.

A/C bearings or BK/BF bearing blocks for the ball screws.

Are you free hanging the Z-axis ball screw or supporting the lower end? (additional hardware required if supporting)

Do you want the computer to start and stop the spindle? (May require a relay if your BoB does not have one to use.)

Are you doing a one-shot oiler system? (Requires one-shot oil pump, fittings, tubing, a manifold and prepping the machine for it.)

At some point you will want to improve the way covers. The stock ones don't seem to hold up and collect chips. Okay for manual machining but not CNC.


We're not that far apart so if you need a hand with something or want to take a look at my setup let me know, I'd be glad to help.


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## TomS (Dec 2, 2016)

With your list and jbolt's list you should have everything you need to build your machine.  You will also need a computer, motion control software (Mach3 or 4, or Linux), a CAD program, and a CAM program.  When it comes to CAD/CAM there is a lot to choose from.  Prices start at "free" and get into the thousands.  For info I use eMachineShop (free) for simple 2D and 2.5D drawings and Fusion 360 (free) for 3D, modeling and complex parts.  For CAM I use CamBam.  Fusion 360 also has built in CAM. 

Good luck with your build.  Remember, we are here to help you work through your project.

Tom S.


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## techbuilder (Dec 5, 2016)

jbolt said:


> Breakout board (BoB) to interface between the smooth stepper, steppers and computer. (I highly recommend the PMDX products. I have the PMDX-126 BoB & Ethernet Smooth Stepper)



I'll check out that breakout board, I have an older one I forgot to include but it's certainly outdated.



jbolt said:


> Enclosure for your electronics.



That one is checked off as well, I'm using an old atx case that I stripped and made it into a control panel (well started to lol)



jbolt said:


> Cables & connectors for the stepper motors.


Still figuring out which ones to use have any recommendations?



jbolt said:


> A/C bearings or BK/BF bearing blocks for the ball screws.


Haven't figured those out yet which ones did you use for yours?



jbolt said:


> Are you free hanging the Z-axis ball screw or supporting the lower end? (additional hardware required if supporting)


I'll be supporting the lower end with a gas spring to prevent loss of steps during boring operations. 



jbolt said:


> Do you want the computer to start and stop the spindle? (May require a relay if your BoB does not have one to use.)


Yep, so I'll be including an SSR.  



jbolt said:


> Are you doing a one-shot oiler system? (Requires one-shot oil pump, fittings, tubing, a manifold and prepping the machine for it.)


Yes, I definitely want to, that's an area I have to research more into.



jbolt said:


> At some point you will want to improve the way covers. The stock ones don't seem to hold up and collect chips. Okay for manual machining but not CNC.


I saw the way you did it on your build thread and I will definitely be changing mine. It's already an issue with the vice I have so I can't wait to pull those off.



jbolt said:


> We're not that far apart so if you need a hand with something or want to take a look at my setup let me know, I'd be glad to help.



Thank you very much, I really appreciate it!


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## techbuilder (Dec 5, 2016)

TomS said:


> With your list and jbolt's list you should have everything you need to build your machine.  You will also need a computer, motion control software (Mach3 or 4, or Linux), a CAD program, and a CAM program.  When it comes to CAD/CAM there is a lot to choose from.  Prices start at "free" and get into the thousands.  For info I use eMachineShop (free) for simple 2D and 2.5D drawings and Fusion 360 (free) for 3D, modeling and complex parts.  For CAM I use CamBam.  Fusion 360 also has built in CAM.
> 
> Good luck with your build.  Remember, we are here to help you work through your project.
> 
> Tom S.



The computer is checked off and I currently have Mach 3 since I've had a cnc router in the past.

For the power supply for the Z axis 4200oz stepper motor which should I use in order to use my KL-8070D 80VDC/7A Digital Stepper Driver?
Or will I have to get a completely new stepper driver for the z-axis? 

Thank you guys for the help so far I really appreciate it!


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## TomS (Dec 5, 2016)

techbuilder said:


> The computer is checked off and I currently have Mach 3 since I've had a cnc router in the past.
> 
> For the power supply for the Z axis 4200oz stepper motor which should I use in order to use my KL-8070D 80VDC/7A Digital Stepper Driver?
> Or will I have to get a completely new stepper driver for the z-axis?
> ...



I did a quick search on eBay and you can get a stand alone power supply for about $35.  There are more than 800 PS listed so you will have to sort through to find the one that fits your needs.  Or you can go with a DQ2722M from Wantai Motor.  About $165 for a combo driver/power supply.  That's what I have but then again I didn't have a usable driver sitting on the shelf.  Here's the link  http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Cut-Nem...449292?hash=item1e766685cc:g:4qkAAOxyoeBSCfPs 

Tom S.


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## techbuilder (Dec 5, 2016)

TomS said:


> I did a quick search on eBay and you can get a stand alone power supply for about $35.  There are more than 800 PS listed so you will have to sort through to find the one that fits your needs.  Or you can go with a DQ2722M from Wantai Motor.  About $165 for a combo driver/power supply.  That's what I have but then again I didn't have a usable driver sitting on the shelf.  Here's the link  http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Cut-Nem...449292?hash=item1e766685cc:g:4qkAAOxyoeBSCfPs
> 
> Tom S.


What's the voltage and wattage I would need if you don't mind me asking for the power supply?


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## jbolt (Dec 5, 2016)

techbuilder said:


> I'll check out that breakout board, I have an older one I forgot to include but it's certainly outdated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is the cable I use. https://www.mcmaster.com/#8082k83/=15c7cjv

I originally used some inexpensive 18-4 shielded cable off ebay but the outer sheathing didn't stand up to the flood coolant so I switched to a more appropriate cable.

For panel connectors I am using 16mm aviation plugs like these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-Aviati...528592?hash=item281c2eea90:g:k5oAAOSwyDxXhSXO

I used the BK/BF bearing blocks. They need a little TLC out of the box to make sure the bearing cap retaining screws are long enough and the A/C bearing are usually installed wrong. My build thread has info on how to get them setup properly and adjust the bearing pre-load.

Where are you putting the gas spring?

Since you had a CNC router I'm assuming you have home/limit switched figured in?


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## techbuilder (Dec 5, 2016)

jbolt said:


> This is the cable I use. https://www.mcmaster.com/#8082k83/=15c7cjv
> 
> I originally used some inexpensive 18-4 shielded cable off ebay but the outer sheathing didn't stand up to the flood coolant so I switched to a more appropriate cable.
> 
> ...


Sweet thank you so much! I'm going to order them today.



jbolt said:


> Where are you putting the gas spring?



I'll be attaching them to the head similar to this method used
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/motor-for-pm-45-hand-crank.10056/



jbolt said:


> Since you had a CNC router I'm assuming you have home/limit switched figured in?


Yes


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## jbolt (Dec 5, 2016)

Just for clarification,  I used (1) BK15 & (1) BF15 on the X-axis (both ends supported). (1) BK15 on the Y-axis (far end not supported). (1) FK15 on the Z-axis. The lower end of the z-axis ball screw was machined for a 15mm ID bearing and the bottom of the screw is supported by a 15MM ID thrust bearing. I was not comfortable hanging the head by the end of the ball screw. 

I did not use struts on the head. With the 4200 in.oz stepper there has never been an issue with missing steps even with aggressive drilling or Z moves.


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## jbolt (Dec 5, 2016)

Tom,

Are you still using the DQ860MA drivers on the X&Y? I've blown diodes off the bottom of both of  the ones I started with. I switched to the  KL-11080 combo driver/power supply similar to the DQ2722MA. So far I have not been able to blow those up....yet.


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## TomS (Dec 5, 2016)

jbolt said:


> Tom,
> 
> Are you still using the DQ860MA drivers on the X&Y? I've blown diodes off the bottom of both of  the ones I started with. I switched to the  KL-11080 combo driver/power supply similar to the DQ2722MA. So far I have not been able to blow those up....yet.



Still have the DQ860MA drivers and no problems at all.  It's a guess but I would look at your dip switch settings to make sure they are set correctly for your motors.

Tom S.

Edit:  here's a pic of my settings.


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## TomS (Dec 5, 2016)

techbuilder said:


> What's the voltage and wattage I would need if you don't mind me asking for the power supply?



The DQ2272 is rated at 8.0A peak current, 7.0A rated current.  The stepper motor is rated at 8.0A and 5.36 volts.  I like the driver/PS package.  Make installation easier.

Tom S.


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## techbuilder (Dec 6, 2016)

TomS said:


> The DQ2272 is rated at 8.0A peak current, 7.0A rated current.  The stepper motor is rated at 8.0A and 5.36 volts.  I like the driver/PS package.  Make installation easier.
> 
> Tom S.


Looks like a power supply capable of handling the Nema 42 would be the same cost and in some cases more than the cost of the driver board with the power supply so I'm just going to go with the KL-2283.

http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/kl-stepper-drivers/kl-22083

I'll use my extra stepper controller for a 4th axis in the future.


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## techbuilder (Apr 11, 2017)

Hi Folks!
Long time no update due to funds and a change of plans. I got my bonus from work so it's time to purchase the rest of the parts I need for the conversion.
Looking at @TomS and @jbolt build logs it appears they're both using different sized ball screws.

TomS if I recall you're using
2005 on the Z axis 
and 1605 on the X & Y axis

Jbolt 
I recall is using 2005 on all axis 
but would have swapped out to a 2505 for the Z axis.

Since I already have the 1600oz steppers for the X and the Y and will be ordering the stepper (4200oz) for the Z axis should I go with all 2005 for all axis or should I go with 1605 or 2005 for the X and Y axis and 2505 for the Z?

Also I know this will differ but what were the rough or exact lengths for each axis when you ordered? 

Any information is highly appreciated


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## jbolt (Apr 11, 2017)

If I were to do it again it would be 2005 on the X & Y and 2505 on the Z.

Attached is the specification sheet I sent to Chai. I would use double ball nuts vs the two single nuts on each axis.


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## techbuilder (Apr 11, 2017)

jbolt said:


> If I were to do it again it would be 2005 on the X & Y and 2505 on the Z.
> 
> Attached is the specification sheet I sent to Chai. I would use double ball nuts vs the two single nuts on each axis.



Thanks for the quick reply and the information Jbolt!
I will get the 2005 for the X&Y and the 2505 for the Z.

Will the FK15 suffice for the larger 2505?


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## jbolt (Apr 11, 2017)

The 2505 typically uses a BK20/FK20 bearing block. I would go with the FK20. The end of the shaft where the coupler to motor goes can be 11-15mm so match it to your motor shaft. If the motor shaft is an imperial unit (1/2") then specify 12.7mm and make a note of it on the order and in the email. Works most of the time but I have had a few come just 12mm.


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## techbuilder (Apr 11, 2017)

jbolt said:


> The 2505 typically uses a BK20/FK20 bearing block. I would go with the FK20. The end of the shaft where the coupler to motor goes can be 11-15mm so match it to your motor shaft. If the motor shaft is an imperial unit (1/2") then specify 12.7mm and make a note of it on the order and in the email. Works most of the time but I have had a few come just 12mm.



Sweet will do Jay, I'll be ordering this Monday once I measure what all my lead screws lengths are since they vary each machine.
I wanted to get a rough estimate on the price of the ball screws.


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## techbuilder (Apr 11, 2017)

Quick question for everyone that has done a build with the rong-fu sized machines. What did you use to lift the head and the table off safely? Engine hoist?


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## jbolt (Apr 11, 2017)

I don't have much free space for maneuvering a lift so I did the table (X & Y) first. Remove the handles, bearing end blocks and gib. Slide the table to the left until you can lift it off the saddle. I can do it by myself but an extra set of hands is nice to have.

For the head I made a support out of 2x wood blocks and lowered the head until it was fully supported. Removed the 3 nuts connecting the head to the slide and ran the table forward to disengage. I left the head on the table while I did the Z. Makes it easy to re-install the head. I also did not remove the column from the base. It did make drilling the top of the column with a 4" hole saw while standing on a ladder interesting.


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## TomS (Apr 12, 2017)

techbuilder said:


> Hi Folks!
> Long time no update due to funds and a change of plans. I got my bonus from work so it's time to purchase the rest of the parts I need for the conversion.
> Looking at @TomS and @jbolt build logs it appears they're both using different sized ball screws.
> 
> ...



Yes, I used 1605's on the X and Y and a 2005 on the Z.  They are working just fine but if I had to do it over again I would do it the way jbolt did.

Tom S.


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## TomS (Apr 12, 2017)

techbuilder said:


> Quick question for everyone that has done a build with the rong-fu sized machines. What did you use to lift the head and the table off safely? Engine hoist?



I used a engine hoist to remove the head and column.  The table is a bit heavy but one person can lift it.  Two people doing it is better.

Tom S.


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## techbuilder (Apr 12, 2017)

jbolt said:


> I don't have much free space for maneuvering a lift so I did the table (X & Y) first. Remove the handles, bearing end blocks and gib. Slide the table to the left until you can lift it off the saddle. I can do it by myself but an extra set of hands is nice to have.
> 
> For the head I made a support out of 2x wood blocks and lowered the head until it was fully supported. Removed the 3 nuts connecting the head to the slide and ran the table forward to disengage. I left the head on the table while I did the Z. Makes it easy to re-install the head. I also did not remove the column from the base. It did make drilling the top of the column with a 4" hole saw while standing on a ladder interesting.



Haha okay good to know I can do it without one since I have a one car garage and space for one of those engine cranes would have to end up in the kitchen lol



TomS said:


> Yes, I used 1605's on the X and Y and a 2005 on the Z.  They are working just fine but if I had to do it over again I would do it the way jbolt did.
> 
> Tom S.



Perfect! Thanks Tom



TomS said:


> I used a engine hoist to remove the head and column.  The table is a bit heavy but one person can lift it.  Two people doing it is better.
> 
> Tom S.


Thanks Tom for the response, I figured it would be nicer to use an engine crane but if I can go without it I'm going to try and do so due to space.

Also I just wanted to thank you all for helping me out, it makes builds like this go much easier and gives me some guidelines to follow.


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## jbolt (Apr 12, 2017)

This post shows how the head is supported on the table. 

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pm932-cnc-build.21442/#post-193862


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## tlmartin84 (Apr 19, 2017)

How much do you guys have in a "pieced together" system like this.  Minus the computer?


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## techbuilder (Apr 19, 2017)

tlmartin84 said:


> How much do you guys have in a "pieced together" system like this.  Minus the computer?


So far (and mine is not completed just need the ball screws next) is about a little over 1500, Add the ball screws and I'll be near 1900 mark but I'm sure other things will come up during the build so it will be more.

Take in mind all of our numbers will be different as we all have different ball screw sizes and different electronics and materials utilized. 

This number is also without the cost of the machine obviously.


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## tlmartin84 (Apr 19, 2017)

Thanks.  I have an extensive CAD background, and could be much more dangerous with a CNC setup than I can by hand.  It is something I eventually want to pursue.


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## TomS (Apr 19, 2017)

tlmartin84 said:


> How much do you guys have in a "pieced together" system like this.  Minus the computer?



I had about $4,600 invested including the milling machine.  That was a couple of years ago.  Since then I've made several improvements that have increased the bottom line.  I'm mentioning this because you will find that after getting your conversion up and running there will be several improvements you want to incorporate into your build.  It seems to be never ending but that's part of the fun in my opinion.

Tom S.


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## techbuilder (Apr 27, 2017)

Direct drive vs belt driven, which do you prefer and why?


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## TomS (Apr 27, 2017)

techbuilder said:


> Direct drive vs belt driven, which do you prefer and why?



Mine is direct drive.  I could have gone with belt drives but it was no more expensive to buy larger steppers than three pulleys and belts.  Motor guards were easier to make too.  

Tom S.


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## jbolt (Apr 27, 2017)

If I had more room in my shop I probably would have gone direct drive because it is simpler to do. I used belt drive on the X & Y to keep the overall envelope of the machine as small as possible. With the belt drive I like not having the stepper hanging out front. The motor covers a a little more complicated but I like the way it turned out. It also keeps my coolant enclosure smaller.


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## techbuilder (Apr 27, 2017)

TomS said:


> Mine is direct drive.  I could have gone with belt drives but it was no more expensive to buy larger steppers than three pulleys and belts.  Motor guards were easier to make too.
> 
> Tom S.



Yeah that's what I was thinking, I'll end up going that route since it will be the easiest to get going.



jbolt said:


> If I had more room in my shop I probably would have gone direct drive because it is simpler to do. I used belt drive on the X & Y to keep the overall envelope of the machine as small as possible. With the belt drive I like not having the stepper hanging out front. The motor covers a a little more complicated but I like the way it turned out. It also keeps my coolant enclosure smaller.



Valid points as well


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