# Upgrading My Cnc Machine



## BobSchu (Mar 23, 2016)

Tried asking several questions on a couple different forums and haven't been able to get a response so I'll try one more time here.
I have Tree 2UVRC mill with CNC but the controls are old Tektronix that are hopelessly outdated and not working. They will be going to the dump unless someone needs some parts for their old machine. My mill has servos on it, but none of the 3 have any labels or markings of any type on them so I'm in the dark what size they are, DC or AC, etc.... 
So, I've got a decision to make. Either make this into a manual machine (it was built as a CNC- not retrofitted) or find  three new Servos, controllers, and the other hardware and software I need to upgrade the existing machine. My budget is kind of tight but if I could fit it into my budget or just a bit more then I would go for it. 
So, the most important questions. Is there a way to determine what I have now for Servos- size, AC or DC ( I assume DC), what size Servos to replace them with if necessary, and what other hardware I need besides controllers? 
Do I need a separate power supply for all of the new equipment and approximately what size would I need? 

I've looked at the Gecko G320X Servo drives and it looks like they may do the trick for relatively short money, but what else would I need? Can I hook one of these up to my existing Servos to test them? 

Tons of questions just to get to the point where I can make a decision but I need to start somewhere. Hope someone here can point me in the right direction.

TIA,
Bob


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## TomS (Mar 23, 2016)

Is this for a hobby or production application?  Being that you are a tight budget have you considered stepper motors and drives?  This may, or may not, be a viable option for what you are trying to accomplish.

Tom S.


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## RIMSPOKE (Mar 23, 2016)

I RAN A TREE CNC MILL A FEW YEARS AGO . 
GREAT MACHINE THAT WAS RUINED BY UNCONVENTIONAL USER HOSTILE CONTROLS .


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## BobSchu (Mar 23, 2016)

I'm strictly a hobbyist, so I don't want to spend a ton of money on rebuilding the CNC on this machine. This machine was in storage for many years and is as tight as can be. The only reason really for upgrading the CNC is for the capabilities it gives me- arcs, circles, etc.... that I would like to do for some of the projects I've dreamed up.
If steppers are a viable option for a machine this size, what size would I need to accomplish this and what other equipment would I need to go with with the stepper motors and controllers?

Thanks,
Bob


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## JimDawson (Mar 23, 2016)

Bob, please look for any data tags on your servos and drives, any part numbers are useful.  That information would be very helpful in determining the best course of action.  DC servos are not a bad thing, just a little outdated, but still being installed on new machines.  If the servos and drives still work, then there is no reason to change them.  It's easy to match new controls to the existing servos.

As far as power supplies, again, if yours is working then there is no reason to make a change.  A 100VDC supply was common, but so are other voltages.  If you are going to do a complete controls upgrade, then you would need to match the power supplies to the new hardware.  We will be happy to help you through that process, there is a lot of experience here.

If you are comfortable doing so, it might be time to plug it in and see what happens  A bit of probing around with a multimeter at that point might provide some useful information.  Assuming DC servos, a car battery will run them at moderate speed to confirm that they are functional.


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## BobSchu (Mar 24, 2016)

Thanks Jim,
I've looked everywhere on the Servos and there are no tags anywhere. I know what to look for, I'm an electrician- and this is so frustrating when someone removes the tags on these types of machines. The motor leads aren't marked either but I'll try the battery idea just to test the parts. 
Unfortunately, I can't start the machine just yet as I took the control box off. It was in terrible condition and missing parts. I do have a VFD I can hook up and temporarily power the power supplies in the power box to see what I can figure out. 
I've been trying to learn a thing or two about Servos, controllers, etc... and I'm starting to understand it a bit. However, if I have to replace the servos I don't have the foggiest idea how to size them. I'll also have to figure out how to test my encoders and limit switches to see if they are working properly.

Bob


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## JimDawson (Mar 24, 2016)

I'm happy to hear you're an electrician, I get nervous having inexperienced people poke around in live equipment! 

Servos on a machine that size normally are around 30 in/lb, I think mine are 27 in/lb, maybe a bit more.  Should you decide to go with steppers you would want to about double that value, so NEMA 34, 1200 oz/in would be in the range you want to look at.

There are probably 4 wires going to the servos, not including the encoder if equipped.  The two larger wires are motor power, the smaller 2 wires are tach feedback, if equipped.

If you have one, a scope is the best way to test encoders offline.  They are normally powered by 5VDC.
.


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## wrat (Mar 24, 2016)

Watching this with considerable interest.

What I'm trying to figure out is why the need for new motors?  If the front end of the machine is faulty (controls, etc) then why switch everything else?

All the motors need is something that decodes the Gcode into a pulse train (more or less, yes).  I would think the motors, resolvers, and amps could be re-used.  Especially if a guy was on a budget.  

It might take some laptop time, but laptop time is cheap compared to a new drive train, idnit?


Wrat


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## BobSchu (Mar 24, 2016)

The only reason I'm considering new motors is because I need new controls. The existing controls are a tape driven cabinet full of circuit boards in poor condition and not working at this time and a junction box with unmarked transformers or rectifiers and controllers of unknown origin and no way to figure out how to reconnect without a wiring diagram, which is missing.  Without knowing the size of the motors or if they work, I don't have any way to size my controllers and other components and I'll never know if the existing is faulty.
Of course, if the servos are in working order, that saves me considerable expense and time and I can find controllers that will work for the present system. 

I'll take some pictures tonight after work and post them to see what I'm dealing with. Maybe someone can recognize something helpful in the pics.

Bob


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## BobSchu (Mar 24, 2016)

Jim, thanks for the helpful suggestions. I took out my boat battery to check the servos, then took it back into the garage to charge it for awhile, then took it out again and checked the servos. They all function fine and extremely quiet. I could barely hear them run even when I was right next to them. Then I took out my camera to take some pictures, then took it back in to charge the battery, then took it back out again and took some pics. Not sure if these are helpful or not but I'll try posting some pics to see if you guys can make out what I need here. I don't have a wiring schematic or diagram of any sort so thrashing through this mess to figure out what works and what doesn't probably isn't worth the hassle.  As long as the servos work, I can hopefully get updated and modern controllers to make a much simpler and more effective/understandable control scheme.


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## BobSchu (Mar 24, 2016)

Not sure why I got multiples of several of the pics but just about everything is shown except for the left side servo which lifts/lowers the table. Lost it in the download somehow I guess. 
I'm hoping that least some of the buttons and control knobs and pots will be reusable on the new controls and there is a swing arm on the left side of the machine that this operator control cabinet was mounted to. Had to remove it to move the machine and this cabinet alone must weight close to 200 lbs. I think there are a couple power supplies I can reuse and several other control items, but nothing has any markings on it so it may take some time to determine just what is what and what I can reuse with new controls. 

Thanks for any help you guys can give me. 

Bob


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## T Bredehoft (Mar 24, 2016)

What I know about modern CNC hardware is squat, but I do know you're going to  have a couple of empty boxes. The computing power of two laptops will replace all that hardware. You've got a lot of potential there, three axies powered, plus the quill. 
You've got a set up many of us would like to have.


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## JimDawson (Mar 24, 2016)

Wow, that's an oldie but goody.  Given that the servo amps (drives) are Gettys then I think it's safe to assume that the motors are also.  Not sure what the black boxes are above the amps, rectifiers maybe?  You have your drive power transformers on the left, one for each servo.  So it looks like you have the complete system there.

All you have to do is hook a motion controller to the drives, sprinkle in a little software and you be making chips in no time.  It's really not much more complicated than that.......OK, maybe a little bit, but not bad.

I can't read the data on the Gettys amps but those part numbers will tell a lot.  I'm going to guess the the input voltage might be 120VAC, but the turns ratio on the transformers might help figure that out.  You need to determine the function of the black boxes for sure.

It looks like there are a bunch of ice cube relays in there, I have no idea exactly the function of those are.  It would take a while to trace some wires out to see what they are connected to.  The are probably not needed with a new computer interface, depends what the coil voltage is to determine if they are useful.

I would keep the tape drive on the machine just for the cool factor.  It doesn't have to do anything, but it would be a conversation starter  In fact, you could run the modern controls from the original operator panel, just need to add a flat panel screen.

There are a lot of options out there, so now it's just a matter of budget.
.
.


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## BobSchu (Mar 24, 2016)

Jim,
The numbers on the Gettys controllers are voltage and hertz hand written for some odd reason. No other part numbers that I could find on them.

The pictures don't really show what poor shape the tape drive is in. The clear plastic cover is broken off and the drives themselves are about to fall off. The rest of the stuff like circuit boards and electronic components in the tape drive cabinet is completely covered in a heavy coat of dust. If I can figure out how to rewire the controllers, rectifiers, and transformers to new controls  and save some money in the process that would be fine, but I'm thinking all the ice cube relays and wiring from the operator cabinet will be replaced.
I would prefer all new modern controls so I can at least troubleshoot the equipment if the need arises or have an online manual or guide to install and/or repair if necessary.
Now, to figure out what the next step is. Do I need to figure out the size of the motors somehow? How do I replace the existing encoder on the table shaft? the one on the front to back control is a belt drive unit, but the shaft mounted unit on the left/right table control is in poor shape and needs replacement. I'm thinking that new controllers may require new encoders all around. Also, the knee raising motor doesn't have any type of encoder on it at the moment.

Lots of potential in this machine for sure. Air supported oiler system, cooling system, air hoses, and lots of other things. Almost too much machine for a hobbyist like me, but the price was right so I'm not complaining. 

I'd like to rehab this machine for under $1K if possible. Hopefully, substantially under that but time will tell. Any help anyone has to throw out there would be appreciated. What I really need is a description of what pieces are needed from the operator interface, to the controllers and/or motion controllers, etc... right to the motor connections. Then, at least I can start pricing pieces and hopefully come up with a wiring scheme to connect it all.

Who makes decent equipment? Are Gecko drives worth while for this process? What DC voltage range should I be looking at for drives? Are any of the Chinese units on ebay worth considering? Lots of questions- hope I don't drive you guys nuts by time this is done but I'd like to get started possibly next week to get this thing reworked and in running condition. Lots of projects in mind to tackle. 

Jim, if you feel like driving out from Sandy to take a look at this thing I would be glad to provide pizza and adult refreshments or other enticement to make it worth your while. 

Thanks for the help,
Bob


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## JimDawson (Mar 25, 2016)

Just to  clarify, I use the term servo amplifer (amp) and servo drive (drive) interchangeably in this context.  The amp is really just a tracking power supply that tracks the command input voltage and outputs a proportional PWM motor control voltage through a standard H-bridge output section just like any good DC motor controller.



BobSchu said:


> Do I need to figure out the size of the motors somehow?



Not if you use the existing power supplies and amps.  The existing amps require a +/- 10VDC command signal.  All analog motion controllers output this signal.  I would not replace the amps unless they are not working, even then I might concider just repairing them.  Normally it's the power transistors that fail if they don't work.



BobSchu said:


> How do I replace the existing encoder on the table shaft?  I'm thinking that new controllers may require new encoders all around.



Encoders come in many sizes, shapes, and resolutions from probably hundreds of different vendors.  It would be best to first decide what motion controller you want to use, then match the encoder outputs to be compatible.   Then find a mechanical match.  Depending on the lead screw pitch, a 1000 line encoder should work.

Automation Direct may become your friend in the near future.

Before deciding on a motion controller, you may want to decide what CNC control software you want to use to insure compatibility.  Mach3 is probably the most used in the hobby world, and there are many controllers that are compatible.

I am not familiar with the specs of the various controllers, but I know that Gecko is well regarded. I don't know if they have a stand alone motion controller that outputs the +/- 10 V command signal.  If they do, that would be a good solution.  A used Galil controller would be a good option also, there are a bunch of them on ebay, and compatible with Mach3.  Another member here (Alloy) picked up (stole) an 8 axis Galil 4080 from Ebay for $900.  We put that in his Shizouka AN6, and he spent a summer of weekends completely building a control system from scratch in my shop.  It is running Mach3.  In fact it's still here, I need to finish some software spindle speed control and the tool changer.  He doesn't have room for it in his shop right now anyway.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GALIL-MOTION-CONTROL-DMC-1880-Rev-G-/281950196689

If you want to go the Galil route, my CNC software is absolutely free!  Right now it will only run on WinXP, but I'm in the process of re-writing it to be compatible with Win7-10.

A road trip to Hillsboro might be possible, too bad you didn't start this last week, I was in Hillsboro last Sunday picking up some new toys for my shop.
.


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## BobSchu (Mar 25, 2016)

Jim,
Looking at the Galil drivers motion controllers on ebay, there seem to be a ton of them. Any particular one that would be best for my situation? I looked at the Mach3 site the other day and I noticed they now have Mach4 and I'm not sure but it sounded like Mach 3 was going to be discontinued? I probably misunderstood, but I'm a newbie so this wouldn't be a total surprise..

Now, I need to do a bit of homework and look at where the board will connect to my existing drivers and start trying to develop a wiring scheme. Easter weekend and all will undoubtedly slow me down a bit, but I plan on giving it a shot to at least get a good start on it. I'm definitely not up on writing code or programming so that will be new to me. I'd like to incorporate some control switches on the operator board to run the machine in "manual" mode for small projects that don't require programming. Don't most of these boards or controllers have inputs for that purpose? I know the existing operator board had control buttons for these functions. 

After your comment, I found some Getty DC servos on line and I was glad I was sitting down. I was pretty shocked at what they cost, but I guess I shouldn't be as this is a pretty heavy duty industrial machine so I'm guessing these are industrial grade motors.

Bob


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## BobSchu (Mar 25, 2016)

Got a bit more time to inspect the machine. At the moment it is stored outside under a tarp but hopefully, not for long. Just need to make room for it in my shop. Weather finally cleared enough to take the tarp off for a good inspection. 
Found the controller number and will start to look up information on the Getty 11-1010-40 Servo controller. Possibly get lucky and find a manual on line. Also had a chance to look at the quill drive and that is a very neat set up. Would like to find a way to install an encoder or DRO rail on it so I can track it, but that may be a later addition. 
Some pics of the controllers with connections


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## JimDawson (Mar 25, 2016)

The Galil DMC-1880 I linked to above is (was, it sold in the last 24 hours) the best deal on Ebay right now.  I went through all of the listings last night, most of them are not useful for you.  There was a reasonably good deal on a DMC-4143 ethernet board.  Some of the pricing makes me wonder what those guys are smoking.  You can buy a new DMC-4143 w/four 750W servo amps built in for $2570.  I just put one of those in a job a couple weeks ago.  Mach3 is being discontinued, but don't worry about that, there are about a million users out there.  Last I heard Mach4 was not working with Galil yet.

You can run the machine from the keyboard jog or with a MPG (Manual Pulse Generator)  Here is an example:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-C...748751?hash=item3a9e963acf:g:7eIAAOSwyZ5Um8VT

Industrial stuff ain't cheap. But sometimes you can find great deals.  Wait until you price out a new AC servo system  About $5K per axis.

As far as adding control to the quill system, no problem.  Anything can be done if you're creative enough.

That wiring looks simple enough, even has all the functions silkscreened on the board, much too simple.  Those boards must connect to the black boxes above which then connect to the motors.  I don't see the motor connections on the boards, but I can't see all of the board.  Being SCR controllers, those things must be pretty bullet proof.  I've never seen a SCR servo controller before.  Must be using some kind of a phase shift circuit (like a light dimmer) rather than a PWM output.

Keep asking questions, there is lot's of help here.
.
.


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## BobSchu (Mar 25, 2016)

Okay, this is starting to make sense to me now. The controllers seem to have the rectifiers built in behind the label covers and a controller to the black boxes, which are just flat covers for the DC transformers. Probably the SCR for the DC transformers for servo speed control?
Assuming the controllers are intact (and the guy I bought it from assures me it was), other than the VFD I already have to generate the 3 phase for the motor,  and a motion controller board for 4 axes, what else would I need to be up and running? I would like to get rid of the existing operator box and possibly install a new box on the swing arm with a touch screen controller mounted on the front cover, or a plain screen with controls for the various functions- left/right, up/down, forward/back. Can this be done with remote pots or buttons wired to the motion control board or is there additional hardware to add to the electronics to make it happen?  The size and  amount of equipment needed will of course determine the size of the new operator box.
There is a 24V power supply for control power in the motor starter box so that is covered also. Once I really started looking, I  realized there is an encoder hidden on the other end of the left/right servo motor and the exposed unit is actually a tachometer.  All the limit switches are in place and connected also, including the quill power. Those controls are on a driven cam in the box on the right side of the machine where the drive motor is located.

Could it be almost as easy as mounting a computer in an operator box on the swing arm,  wiring it to a motion controller in the controllers box, hook up the VFD to the motor, supply a 240V source to the machine, and then do set up with Mach3/4 or your program? It might be as this thing did work at one time with the existing system and all I've removed is the operator box at this time.  Would I also need a breakout board with parallel port or is that all included on the motion controller? I seem to be missing something here. Not surprising as I'm learning on the fly....

Much appreciated,
Bob


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## JimDawson (Mar 26, 2016)

BobSchu said:


> Assuming the controllers are intact (and the guy I bought it from assures me it was), other than the VFD I already have to generate the 3 phase for the motor, and a motion controller board for 4 axes, what else would I need to be up and running?



A computer, CNC software, and some cables.



BobSchu said:


> I would like to get rid of the existing operator box and possibly install a new box on the swing arm with a touch screen controller mounted on the front cover, or a plain screen with controls for the various functions- left/right, up/down, forward/back. Can this be done with remote pots or buttons wired to the motion control board or is there additional hardware to add to the electronics to make it happen? The size and amount of equipment needed will of course determine the size of the new operator box



You will need buttons and a pot for spindle control.  Also you will want a control power, servo power, and E-stop buttons.  Everything else can be operated from the keyboard or a MPG.  Today you can get some pretty tiny computers. I installed one the other day that is about the size of a hard drive, I also have a couple of mini computers here that are about 8 inches square by 2 inches thick.  The is also a new micro computer available that is about the size of a new smartphone for about $99.




BobSchu said:


> Could it be almost as easy as mounting a computer in an operator box on the swing arm, wiring it to a motion controller in the controllers box, hook up the VFD to the motor, supply a 240V source to the machine, and then do set up with Mach3/4 or your program?



That's about it! 



BobSchu said:


> Would I also need a breakout board with parallel port or is that all included on the motion controller? I seem to be missing something here.



You will not be using a parallel port on this system, it will use a PCI card, Ethernet, or USB depending on what motion controller you choose.  If you use a PCI card controller, you will need a 100 pin cable (Galil P/N CBL-100-1M, $135 and a breakout board (Phoenix Contact P/N 5602077, about $159 on Ebay).  You may need a different breakout board depending on the motion controller, I can help spec it out when you decide what direction to go.  There is a lot of hardware available out there.

Take a look at this thread, it chronicles Alloy's upgrade
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/shizouka-an-s-build.33868/

And mine.
http://www.dawsoncontrols.com/millupgrade.html


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## grepper (Mar 26, 2016)

JimDawson said:


> I would keep the tape drive on the machine just for the cool factor. It doesn't have to do anything, but it would be a conversation starter



I would have to agree!!!  I would be a shame to see that lost.  I would imagine there are not many of those left in the world regardless of condition.  I had no idea mills ever had tape storage.  Is it magnetic or punch tape?  It's so beautiful and super funky!

Just add the three components behind the mill in the first picture in this link, (and the guy too) and you're good to go!

http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCCNCMachine.htm


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## BobSchu (Mar 26, 2016)

Jim,
Or anyone else who can answer this- what am I looking for in a controller board? I know the 4 axis I need and the 10V requirement, but what other requirements will I need? There are lots of 4 axis units, but I'm not sure what else I need to be looking for? I would like to run Mach 3 or use the Galil board with your program, so which boards should I be looking at? Do the numbers on the Galil DMC cards mean anything I should know? Sorry to be such a pain in the butt, this is pretty new to me and it's all in a foreign language....


Lots of Chinese stuff on ebay now that look like they may work, but makes me nervous being a guinea pig for this cheap stuff with no reviews or feedback to rely on.. like this one- http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Axis-Mach...623474?hash=item210c05bd32:g:rTkAAOSwkZhWST06  with the terminal connections I like.


Bob


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## JimDawson (Mar 26, 2016)

Bob, I understand your confusion, there is a lot to digest in a short time.  I have been working with motion control systems for over 20 years and I am still learning.  I would go here:  http://www.machsupport.com/software/plugins/  These are the devices that are supported by Mach3

The ''motion controller'' that you linked to above won't work in your application and it's not a motion controller.  It's a USB interface device for Mach3 that outputs a *step* and *direction* signal for use with stepper motor drives.  The 0-10V analog output is for the spindle VFD command signal only.  There is also no provision for connecting encoders to that device.

A real motion controller uses a ''goto'' and speed input from the software and it does the trajectory planning and figures out the best way to handle that motion segment.  Now in the case of Mach3/4, Mach actually does the trajectory planning, and sends out very short motion segments to the controller.  Not my favorite way of doing things but it seems to work at milling machine speeds, not so much for high speed (not hobby class) routers as I found out.  Mach4 may have fixed those problems.

In a Galil board you are looking for DMC-xxxx.  The first two digits are the family (18xx, 20xx, 22xx, 40xx), the next digit is the number of axis.  The last digit is the series. The 18 means it's a PCI card, a 17xx is a ISA Bus card. I haven't seen an ISA bus in a computer in years.   All others are stand alone.  An 1846 is the latest and greatest 4 axis PCI card.  A 4040 is the top line stand alone 4 axis controller.  http://www.galil.com/motion-controllers  look through the current and leagacy controllers.  Anything with a 3 digit part number is not useful to you.  If you decide on Galil from ebay, contact me before you spend any money.

So what to look for in motion controllers
Analog AXIS output +/- 10 Volt (many motion controllers have step and direction output also)
Encoder Input
Mach3/4 compatible


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## BobSchu (Mar 27, 2016)

Jim,
Sent you an email regarding a few controllers I found on ebay. Thanks again for all your help. Hope you are having a great and peaceful Easter. 

Bob


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## chrishoag (Mar 27, 2016)

If you can use an AC Servo, I'd highly recommend Panasonic.


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## mmprestine (Mar 27, 2016)

Skip mach3!  Look into linuxcnc and mesa electronics.  They have an analog card that will work with your drives.  A couple hundred bucks and you can have that thing running like a real machine.


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## BobSchu (Mar 27, 2016)

Getting too old to learn a new computer language, among other things. Also, brought up the website and the first thing I noticed is the new version has come out with lots of bugs fixed? (by users?)  I'm not too terribly computer savvy, but that doesn't sound like a good thing to me.....  What about the bugs they missed?


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## JimDawson (Mar 28, 2016)

BobSchu said:


> Getting too old to learn a new computer language, among other things.




Aw come on Bob.  I'm learning a new computer language right now while I'm rewriting my CNC software to run on Win10, and I'll bet I have a few years on you  (67, last December).  It's just more of a struggle than it used to be.


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## grepper (Mar 28, 2016)

I'm 61, just started learning about milling, and now I'm making my first CNC mill.  Only a few months ago I knew totally nothing about it, and now, only a few months later, I realize I know even less than when I started!.  Seems like a huge endeavor to take on at this point.   I'm just hoping that when I'm super-duper really old like Jim  I don't feel like I know even less than I do now!  

Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like bananas better.


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## BobSchu (Mar 28, 2016)

Geez, we should start an old machinist club. I'm 63 but still feel like a teenager until I start doing things like this...

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk


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## mmprestine (Mar 28, 2016)

Well there isn't much to learn really and what is to learn is also to be learnt about Mach3, the operating systems work the same on an operator side.  The bugs list is because LinuxCNC is actively being developed, it is very stable.  Anyway I am not here to try and convince you just thought I would throw out an option.  The cost and quality cannot be matched as LinuxCNC is free and the Mesa cards are very well priced.


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## BobSchu (Mar 28, 2016)

Had to work late tonight to fix someone else's mistake, but what the heck. 

No need to be uptight because I don't want to use Linux right now. I guess I didn't put enough of those smiley things in my post to show I was having some fun. 
Actually, I looked at Mesa's website for a bit and searched for a 4 axis motion controller and couldn't find anything similar. Are you sure we are on the same page with my Servo motion controller?


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## mmprestine (Mar 29, 2016)

Sorry that it came across that way.  The motion controller is LinuxCNC, it does all the heavy lifting and control.  The Mesa cards only output the proper signal type to the drivers that you have, in this case analog servo drive.  You would need two cards from Mesa that are listed below, the 5I25 is a PCI card that goes in the computer and the other is the analog interface, if it was just step orientated then you just need the 5I25.  This is just an example, send Mesa an email and they will take care of you and get you the best configuration for your drive.

5I25-SP PCI Anything I/O – 34/ I/O bits LX9 Spartan6 FPGA Standard profile $89

AND

7I33 4 axis Analog servo amp interface for Anything I/O $69

OR

7I48 6 channel analog servo interface - quadrature encoder input $99

OR

7I77 6 axis analog servo interface - 48 isolated I/O for 25 pin Anything I/O $199


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## BobSchu (Mar 29, 2016)

Okay, this is starting to sink in a bit through my thick skull. 

So, correct me if I'm wrong so I can start to plan this process. This is referencing my pictures earlier in this thread.

In a one line perspective, 1st I would have a computer at the operator station- either a laptop or a flat screen mounted in a Nema 4 box with a mini computer (or any computer capable of running Win 7/8/10), then cable down from the computer to the large junction box on the back. Any wiring that originally went to the existing tape drive cabinet and controls would be removed along with the ice cube relays in the control cabinet. Next install a board or stand alone motion control unit in the junction box and use either expansion terminal strips or cable from the board to a breakout board for terminals. Connect from the terminals to the existing drivers, including the power connections and/or 24V power where necessary ( some boards seem to require a 24V source?) 
Power it up and set up.

I will be bringing in a 240V source to a terminal board and separating the Servo power and head power there since the servo drives don't require 3 phase and my VFD is sized only slightly larger than the  power motor. I think it pulls 5.8 amps @ 240V 3 phase (1 1/2 hp). On the primary side of the VFD, this should equate to about 7.5 amps incoming. If I bring in a 20 Amp 240V power cord with a neutral and ground to the terminal board, I still have almost 10 amps @240V to serve the other loads- Servo drivers, quill power, computer power, and other various solenoids for oiling, cooling, and other loads which are negligible. I can always bump this up to a 30 Amp feed if necessary but I won't know for sure until I have a chance to run it and put an amprobe on the circuits. 

Am I missing anything here or am I on track? The loose ends always kill me on these type of projects ( and end up nickle and dimeing me to death). If I get this done soon enough, I can devote some time to machining this summer when I'm off work a bit and also one of my other many hobbies now that the weather is good-




Thanks again for all the help guys, I hope there are others gaining something from all my newbie questions.
Bob


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## BobSchu (Mar 29, 2016)

Okay, I have another question regarding this connection. The motion controllers or breakout boards have inputs for the encoders. At the present time, the encoders are connected to the drivers. Do I simply jumper them from the driver connection point to the breakout board/terminal add-on board and leave them both connected, or do I connect them directly to the breakout board and take them off the existing driver connection point? Hopefully, I can get a connection diagram with whatever used board I end up buying and this will be spelled out, but with my luck probably not..... 

Bob


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## JimDawson (Mar 29, 2016)

You pretty much have the basics down, and your power plan seems reasonable.

I have never seen encoders connected driver boards, they normally connect into the motion controller.  The tachs connect to the driver boards.  The encoders are normally 4 or 6 wires in the cable, the tachs should be 2 wire.


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## BobSchu (Mar 29, 2016)

Sure glad you guys are helping me out here. After further investigation, the encoder cables are 5 and 6 conductor cables and were initially terminated in the operator cabinet. So, I guess I could install the motion controller and breakout board in the operator cabinet instead and run wiring down to the control cabinet to the drivers to make the connections? This may simply a few things and keep the control boards in a cleaner environment in the operator station j-box. 

I'll have to figure out which wires in the encoder cables go to which function but at least everything is there to find.

Bob


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## JimDawson (Mar 29, 2016)

BTW, awesome car.


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## BobSchu (Mar 29, 2016)

Jim,
Sent you another email. Ready to start buying hardware and need your back up.... 

Bob


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## BobSchu (Mar 31, 2016)

So I bought a motion controller on ebay that should do the trick - GALIL DMC-2143 4-AXIS MOTION CONTROLLER, ICM-20105 INTERCONNECT OPTO I/O. Still not sure what I need as far as cables to connect it all to the drivers, encoders, etc.... except for the ethernet cable I need for the computer connection. 
Now, I need to line up a computer and I would like to mount the computer and controls on an operator console. I've been searching for the right one for my purposes, but not quite finding what I want so far. Any ideas what you guys would use for a console with a flat screen flush mounted, necessary controls and room on the face to mount them, and where to find such an animal? 

Coming along slowly,
Bob


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## JimDawson (Mar 31, 2016)

Do a search for a Dell 3050 micro desktop, I just installed one like it on a machine a couple of weeks ago.  Fits in the palm of your hand.

I would use the original operator panel enclosure, then just buy a piece of aluminum to replace the the existing panel. Or of you need bigger for the screen then head for your local sheet metal shop and have an enclosure bent up.  It doesn't have to be a NEMA 4, a NEMA 1 would be fine.


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## BobSchu (Mar 31, 2016)

Jim,
I was thinking of that solution but for some reason I thought the panel needed to be a Nema 12. I just happen to have some aluminum sheet around  and a couple of metal brakes so I'll see what I can come up with. May even be able to use some of my existing buttons and other pieces, but I don't think there are any pots in the mix so I'll have to find some of those  and a flat screen to mount in the panel front. Any idea where I can find one of those?


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## JimDawson (Mar 31, 2016)

BobSchu said:


> Any idea where I can find one of those?



I normally just go to Best Buy or Frys for monitors.  You can generally pick up a 21 or 23 inch for about $120.  I like big monitors because my old eyes don't work as well as they used to.  Just make sure the monitor has a more or less flat border around the screen, that way you can use double sided tape to mount it in the panel.  Make sure it supports 1920 x 1080 resolution.

The only pot you should need is for the VFD.  Check the specs on your VFD, but normally 2 - 5 K, 1 Watt, linear taper is what you want.  These are the ones I normally use  http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...dicators/22mm_Metal/Potentiometers/ECX2300-5K


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## BobSchu (Apr 2, 2016)

Jim, your idea was genius. After taking a better look at the control box, I realized it was a much better console than I could build or order so I got to work stripping out the internals. Got it down to the bare cast aluminum frame and it is a pretty impressive piece, as the pics will show.
After stripping all the metal off the cabinet except the bottom, I formed new pieces out of .063 aluminum sheet for the front, the infill pieces for the step where the tape unit used to be, and the back.  Should be perfect for the new flat screen, computer, and other assorted pieces I need to house in there. Also, plenty of room for buttons, switches, and other items as needed.
Couldn't fit a 21 or 22" monitor in the cabinet as it was only 19 5/8" inside measurement. 19" monitor is as big as I can go for now. 

Anyone need a slightly used tape drive unit? 
	

		
			
		

		
	









After I get all the holes punched and pieces mounted, including the monitor, it will all come apart again and get painted, probably a machine gray or something boring like that. 

Bob


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## JimDawson (Apr 3, 2016)

Looking good, nice sheet metal work!  That enclosure has a pretty substantial frame in it.


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## BobSchu (Apr 17, 2016)

I finally got almost all of my components here in my grubby hands and ready to start installing parts. I need to buy cables to connect from my 20105 daughter board to the servo drives and from the DMC 2143 board to the controls as needed. Looking at the Galil site, the necessary cables are ridiculously expensive. Is there a reason for this? Is there something different or special about these cables or would any 15 pin, 25 pin, and 37 pin cable work in this instance with #26 wire guage conductors?

I found the pin out configurations on the Galil website so I should be able to start wiring it up once I get the cables I need and mount the equipment in the control box and the operator station.

Thanks,
Bob


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## JimDawson (Apr 17, 2016)

Breakout boards and cables
https://www.winford.com/products/cat_brk.php

and Cables on Demand
https://www.cablesondemand.com/cate.../InfoManage/D-SUBMINIATURE_(D-SUB)_CABLES.htm


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## BobSchu (Apr 19, 2016)

Thanks Jim,
Ordered the breakout boards today. Now need to order some MTW wire. What size do you prefer for this control wiring? I was thinking 16 guage MTW ?

Bob


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## JimDawson (Apr 19, 2016)

16ga should be fine.  For low energy stuff like encoders and wiring to the inputs, I normally use multi-conductor cables around 22 - 28 ga, the max current on those is just a few mili-amps.


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## BobSchu (May 15, 2016)

So I now have almost everything I need to start the install. Started removing some of the incidental wiring that came with the old controls and installed a new feed cable to handle the 30 Amp 120/240V feed to the machine with a twist lock receptacle on the end. Even found a matching twist lock receptacle in my box-O-parts so that part is taken care of once I pull a new circuit in my shop.

Planning on removing the reversing contactors this week and replacing them with the VFD and wire it in. Then the tough part starts. The wiring for the controls at the  quill motor and other controls (coolant, air flow, oiler, etc...) are almost impossible to follow in the small control box and gutter. I need to keep most of these items running after the upgrade so I need to identify them. It will take a bit of time to determine all of their functions and what is necessary to keep them functioning with the new control scheme. Wish me luck with this....

Then, the wiring of the controls begins once I find room for the control board to mount and install the computer, screen, power receptacles, and other cables needed in the operator interface cabinet and mount it.

The existing flex conduit used on this unit is stiff and cracking from age. Most sealtight flex really doesn't lend itself to being moved around a lot and tends to break or split after a short time. I am hoping to find some of the super soft and flexible stuff I sometimes find on machine tools- especially asian tools so I can install the cables from the interface cabinet to the controls cabinet and still move the interface console around when necessary without stressing the flex. Anyone know where I can find some of this super flexible in either 1/2" or 3/4" size?

Thanks,
Bob


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## JimDawson (May 16, 2016)

BobSchu said:


> Anyone know where I can find some of this super flexible in either 1/2" or 3/4" size?



You might try Platt, and also take a look at Home Depot I thought I saw something like that there.  I have worked with a lot of it, up to about 2 inch, but it all came with German machines, I have never tried to source it locally.


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## jbolt (May 16, 2016)

Try Igus

http://www.igus.com/wpck/3508/overview_protectivehoses

Jay


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