# Shopping for new lathe



## Rich20 (Jul 19, 2020)

I am looking at the 1236 vs a 1228 or 1030. I am concerned about Chinese quality. I know the 1236 is Taiwanese but what about the others?
I could do most of what I want to do on a 1030 but I like the looks of the additional features of the 1236. Any thoughts from this that have either?
Thank you


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## markba633csi (Jul 19, 2020)

I believe the 1236 comes in two versions, one from Taiwan.  The 1236T is the better one
-Mark


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## Aaron_W (Jul 19, 2020)

The PM-1236 is made in China, the PM-1236T is made in Taiwan, there is about $900 difference in price. The 1236T is about 150lbs lighter with a 1-1/2hp motor vs  2hp on the 1236, but the 1236T is supposed to be a better made and more accurate lathe.

Anytime you see T in the suffix on a PM machine it indicates a Taiwanese made machine.

Besides size, the advantage to the 1236 lathes is you get a full quick change gear box. The 1030 has a gear box to control the speed of power feed, but you need to use change gears for most threading. Not sure where the 1228 falls in that regard.

I think there are forum members with all of these lathes. You might want to change the post name to something with the lathe names in the title to catch their attention.


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## BigWalt (Jul 19, 2020)

Well I purchased the 1127 vf had same issue deciding  what size to buy as well, I can always upgrade in the future
Im told my either shipped friday or will monday.  So I should have it in the next or so!!!!!


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## Rich20 (Jul 20, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> The PM-1236 is made in China, the PM-1236T is made in Taiwan, there is about $900 difference in price. The 1236T is about 150lbs lighter with a 1-1/2hp motor vs  2hp on the 1236, but the 1236T is supposed to be a better made and more accurate lathe.
> 
> Anytime you see T in the suffix on a PM machine it indicates a Taiwanese made machine.
> 
> ...



Thank you this is very helpful to understand the numbering system. I guess my next question will be is how the Chinese model quality is.


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## T Bredehoft (Jul 20, 2020)

The models sold by Precision Matthews and the bulk of the other Chinese  machines are not in the same category.  PM specifies strict quality standards, and their products adhere to these standards. Apparently the machines made in China for PM can not be depended upon to meet the quality of the Taiwanese (also Chinese) machines, so PM orders higher quality machines, at higher prices from Taiwan


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## mikey (Jul 20, 2020)

I don't own a Chinese or Taiwanese lathe but I sort of have an opinion about buying lathes in general. 

You haven't told us what you intend to do with the lathe so recommending which lathe to get is difficult. The lathe has to be able to handle what you want to do with it. If you have not defined this clearly for yourself then now is a good time to do that. 

The size of the lathe is not just about how large a work piece it can handle. Most hobby class lathes below 12" do not have many important features that a good engine lathe needs. You need to be clear on what features are important to you and make sure the lathe you get has them because you cannot upgrade or mod the lathe later on. If you are not clear on which features matter, or why they matter, then ask here until you are clear. Most new lathe buyers do not ask, sad to say.

Beware of shopping purely by looking at spec sheets and comparing features and prices. Quality of construction does not show up on these spec sheets. Taiwan-made machines are typically made to a higher quality standard vs Chinese machines and while it costs more, the general consensus is that it is worth buying the better quality Taiwan machine.

So, once you define your needs and learn enough about lathes to know which features matter, find the lathe or lathes you want to consider and then define your budget. If the lathe you want is beyond your current budget then I suggest you wait until you CAN afford it rather than settling for a lesser machine. 

Keep in mind that the basic machine is just part of the cost. It will cost you as much or more than the lathe costs to tool it up and buy the other tools you need to machine stuff. Whenever I see someone lay down a budget ceiling for a lathe I wonder if they are actually aware of the true costs besides the machine; most are not.

Finally, buy your lathe from a good supplier. PM has an excellent reputation for support after the sale that has been proven over the years to be a real thing and they are the outfit I would go to if I were shopping for a new lathe. If you call Matt, I bet he could tell you exactly what the differences are between the Chinese and Taiwanese models in the same swing class. 

Purchasing a lathe is not a small decision. Do it with your eyes wide open and be as well informed as you possibly can.


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## shooter123456 (Jul 21, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> The 1030 has a gear box to control the speed of power feed, but you need to use change gears for most threading.


Just a note, the gear box lets you select between 3 feed rates.  If you want to feed faster to break a chip or slower to get a better surface, you need to use the change gears.


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## wrmiller (Jul 21, 2020)

mikey said:


> I don't own a Chinese or Taiwanese lathe but I sort of have an opinion about buying lathes in general.
> 
> You haven't told us what you intend to do with the lathe so recommending which lathe to get is difficult. The lathe has to be able to handle what you want to do with it. If you have not defined this clearly for yourself then now is a good time to do that.
> 
> ...



I agree with Mike, and will add my two cents. 

I've had small lathes, and always ended up not liking them because they were missing features I wanted, and/or the quality wasn't there. So a few years back, I decided to get my 'last lathe'. I ended up buying a PM1340GT. Not because I need a lathe that big, because I don't. But it was the smallest lathe I could get that had the features I wanted. I wanted Taiwan build quality, a Norton gearbox, accuracy, and variable speed. I had to add a VFD to get the variable speed feature, and it was money well spent IMO. This lathe does everything I want, with the accuracy, quality, and features I was missing in my other lathes. If money were no object, I would have gotten a Hardinge HLV-H with digital threading (or a clone), but until I win the lottery the 1340GT will have to do.


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## Rich20 (Jul 22, 2020)

Thanks for the help. I will be using your insight to decide which features I really need or want. I want Taiwanese quality over Chinese. But aside from that I will be comparing the 1236 vs the 1236t to see what I need or don’t need. I was looking at the pep package on the Chinese lathe. Not sure I need everything that comes with that. We’ll see.
Thanks again.


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## Winegrower (Jul 22, 2020)

If you are looking for a first lathe, advice to get the features you want is good but not that useful, since you probably don’t know what you don’t know.   Here’s what I learned about myself:

I started with a 10” Logan, about a 36” useful bed length.   It had power cross feed, a QCGB, and a 3/4” bore.   I used it for 10+ years, happily.   I added iGaging readouts and added a QCTP and holders.

It had a limited rpm range that required belt switching, but the design made that pretty easy...raise the lid, the tension is relieved.

I didn’t and do not have any recurring parts or processes, it’s just general operations supporting a science project, fun projects, tooling for woodworking projects, etc.   In the time I had the Logan, there were only a couple times the 10” swing was a limitation, and the 36” length was never an issue.   Neither was accuracy.   I was the limit there, not the machine.

But what did become limiting was the bore size and the horsepower.    I wanted to do more with steel and wanted to take bigger cuts, to overcome impatience.       This is what the 14” x 30” 3HP Takisawa does for me.   It’s 2500 pounds, can take a 1.5” rod through the bore.

So far I’m happy.   So far.


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## Skowinski (Jul 22, 2020)

I'll throw in my 2 cents worth, but repeating myself probably.  I started with a little 6" Atlas lathe.  Very quickly I discovered that it was just too small and just not rigid enough, particularly with steels.  Ended up finding and restoring a 9A South Bend cabinet model.  Much better, cuts steels just fine.  I think at this point it will serve me for years, but I can forsee wanting variable speed control, maybe a bigger more rigid machine.... bottom line is to get more lathe* than you think you will need right now.

*or milling machine, in the middle of deciding on my first mill and trying to remind myself of all I just said


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## 5tmorris (Jul 22, 2020)

BigWalt said:


> Well I purchased the 1127 vf had same issue deciding  what size to buy as well, I can always upgrade in the future
> Im told my either shipped friday or will monday.  So I should have it in the next or so!!!!!


I ordered an 1127 also(Along with a 932 mill).  Have received you lathe yet and if so how long did it take after they gave you the tracking info.


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## cwheat (Jul 23, 2020)

Lots of good advice here. I agree with everything Mikey said. I bought a used older pretty worn Craftsman 8" lathe around 1980, used it a little until I retired in 1999, and looked at different makes and models to upgrade to for a while. In 2017 I ordered the 1236(Chinese) lathe from Matt after talking with him with the preferred package and installed dro. In my opinion it was the best value in many different makes I looked at over a period of  a year or so. I am not a pro or trained machinist by trade but was a trained millright by trade and worked in a paper mill for 43 years so I knew the basics and was familiar with machinist work in general. When I received my 1236 I put it together, cleaned it up, leveled it out per the instructions and the first test cut I did was check the tolerance on a shaft about 6 inches long. The difference in the diameter on that six inches was a half thousandth which is very good, in fact much better than I am a machinist. I guess what I am trying to say is that the Chinese machine will do everything and more than most people need in a lathe unless you are working to very extreme tolerances like for something on a space shuttle. Of coarse you can always spend more to get more precision, better workmanship, or more rigidity in a better or higher priced machine. I had a problem with the chinese motor on mine after about a year and Matt immediately offered to sent me a new one with nothing other than me emailing him and telling him the problem. He also gave me the option of paying a little difference and substituting an American made motor which I did. The after sales service cannot be beat with Matt's company and in my case I am very happy with my Chinese machine. Just my opinion and worth every cent you paid for it. I hope it helps in your decision.


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## wrmiller (Jul 23, 2020)

cwheat said:


> I guess what I am trying to say is that the Chinese machine will do everything and more than most people need in a lathe unless you are working to very extreme tolerances like for something on a space shuttle.



You are entitled to your own opinions of course, but your assumption that all chinese machines will deliver the accuracy you have currently is not accurate. No offense. 

The fit/finish and quality variances of Chinese machines vary more from machine to machine than that from other manufacturers in Taiwan, Germany, or the US (among others). The differences in design, materials, and manufacturing tolerances of Chinese machines are not a constant. While this is also true of all manufacturers to some extent, the variances are usually better controlled by the manufacturers making higher quality machines. Depending on usage, the Chinese machines can wear faster, potentially leading to accuracy loss. I have personally experienced this on several Chinese machines. I don't make parts for NASA, nor am I a rocket scientist. But I do build guns and in places work to very tight tolerances. And I require repeatability of those dimensions and tolerances. I am sure I am not the only one who wants accuracy and repeatability in my machines. 

Matt does have his Chinese machines built to a higher standard than some other distributors, but I won't say they are the equal to his Taiwan machines. Sometimes you just have to pay more to get more.


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## BigWalt (Jul 23, 2020)

5tmorris said:


> I ordered an 1127 also(Along with a 932 mill).  Have received you lathe yet and if so how long did it take after they gave you the tracking info.



*Preview*
Sorry for the delay, been very busy at work and home, I received my lathe 7-23-20. from time of order to receiving about 6.5 weeks
however Matt just made order from factory and i got one of the spare Machine they had to sell from stock order. So Matt order was just about to
ship when I place order for Lathe


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## erikmannie (Jul 27, 2020)

I bought a PM-1030V with factory DRO last year. The first thing that I have to point out is that PM has stellar customer service.

I love my PM-1030V. It was all that I could afford at the time, and I will keep it for the rest of my life.

It is easy to change gears for single point threading, but I objected to the time it takes because I have such a long work week. It may take 20 minutes to swap in the “threading” change gears, and another 20 minutes to swap back in the “turning and facing” change gears. As I understand it, the “turning and facing“ change gears will not serve for ANY thread pitch, either imperial or metric.

Having said that, I found that I almost always work with mild steel so I just bought a PM-1660TL. That gets change gears out of my life (at least on one of the lathes). Parting mild steel stock on the PM-1030V goes a little slowly, at least with my HSS parting blades. I never tried an insert for that. My sharpening skills may be poor.

I would encourage you to stretch your budget to go as big as you can. I had to take out a personal loan at 22% APR to buy my big lathe.

I did not have any issue with the quality of the Chinese manufacturing on my PM-1030V. I was able to reproduce work to .0003” (clarifying, “three tenths”) with the PM-1030V. I have not been able to do better than that so far.

I honestly don’t think anybody can go wrong dealing with PM.

I love the DRO on my lathe. I am sure that it saves me time. A DRO on a lathe is not at all necessary, though.


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## Larry$ (Jul 28, 2020)

I agree with Mikey. I debated a long time before buying a PM1440HD. It is Chinese and runs fine. That said there are things that don't show visually that could be better. I'm retired from a manufacturing business and have bought a lot of equipment. I wouldn't buy Chinese for my business even though for many purposes it would probably be OK. 

As for fetures I consider very valuable: quick change gear box so you can do most all imperial threads. Change gears are really a PIA. I do a fair amount of repair work on metric equipment and have to use change gears for that. I prefer working in metric. Having a decent range of spindle speeds particularlly the slowest ones is nice. The only thing I've used 1800rpm for is polishing. My lathe came with a pretty full set of accessories and I added a taper attachement and a collet chuck when I ordered it. The collet chuck is very nice with the set-true feature. The collets I ordered have checked out very good. I've used the collet chuck way more than I thought I might.  The taper attachement isn't very good and I'm working on improving it. Having heard all the stories about sand in the gear boxes, I opened them as soon as I got the lathe. They were clean. I made a test bar and checked out the alignment when I got the machine, nearly dead on. My machine came with a DRO. Took me a while to get used to using it. Very handy but not a requirement and can be added later. 

When it comes time to do very accurate work the 4 jaw chuck is the go to if you need to remove the work and replace it for any reason. Turning between centers allows for test fitting and going right back on the machine. Like others have said: there are many costs beyond the machine. You can add things as needed but there are a lot of "needs!" Obvius are turning tools. HSS and grinding your own on a bench grinder works, is cheap. Chinese insert tooling is highly variable in quality. Good inserts are expensive. You will want some boring bars, fairly easy to make. I've got a Fowler digital caliper that works well. For accurate work I use a Mitutoyo micrometer or dial test indicator. After I had my lathe for a while I bought a Noga magnetic holder. Much easier to use than the cheap Chinese rod type I started with. 

Many projects need some way of milling. You can make an attachement for the lathe to do small milling BUT you will get frustrated with not having a way to mill parts accurately. I found a used Jet knee mill. Its got some wear but still OK. A DRO helps a lot on a mill. More tooling & accessories to buy! This has gotten too long, sorry.  You Tube U is great for learning. ThatLazyMachinist has a great educational series.


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## erikmannie (Jul 28, 2020)

shooter123456 said:


> Just a note, the gear box lets you select between 3 feed rates.  If you want to feed faster to break a chip or slower to get a better surface, you need to use the change gears.



I am pretty sure that the change gear configuration that was installed on my PM-1030V (which one would use for turning, facing, boring, drilling, etc. (i.e. everything except for single point threading)) is the change gear configuration that allows for the slowest power feed.

Put another way, the change gear setup that comes with the machine is ONLY switched out for single point threading. After the threading operation, you reinstall the “stock” (or “factory”) change gear configuration.


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## mikey (Jul 28, 2020)

The fact of the matter is that even with a quick change gear box, there will be times when you have to change gears to get the odd ones that the stock gearing does not allow. Changing gears is often a fact of life if you have to cut metric threads and even some Imperial threads (ie; 13 tpi) so whichever lathe you buy, remember that it is not complete without the full change gear set. 

The other thing I meant to mention is that you don't know a machine unless you have lived with it for a while. There are good machines and not so good ones but there is no perfect machine; after you live with it and really learn to operate it, you will know every single good and bad thing about it. Accordingly, I think it is important for new guys to ask other owners of the lathe they are interested in about their experiences. The HM crew is really good about reporting their opinions on their lathes, which is really valuable. 

Perhaps the biggest problem for new guys is that they don't understand how to run a lathe yet so knowing the value of the different lathe features escapes even the most avid of researchers. One day, I would like to see HM implement a "Mentor Program" where an experienced member takes a new guy under their wing to help them find and learn to use the lathe or mill that suits their needs. We have some really knowledgeable guys here and it would really help the new guys to make fewer purchasing mistakes.


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## erikmannie (Jul 28, 2020)

Before I installed change gears for the first time, I was really intimidated because I wondered if I would be capable of doing it. I was pleasantly surprised to learn that it is not at all difficult.


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## darkzero (Jul 28, 2020)

mikey said:


> One day, I would like to see HM implement a "Mentor Program" where an experienced member takes a new guy under their wing to help them find and learn to use the lathe or mill that suits their needs.



That's a great idea! So when you gonna start it up? I'd fly over for that.... and for the food too.


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## mikey (Jul 28, 2020)

I've kinda' already done that via PM's for quite some time BUT you are welcome any time you fly over here, Will. Not the mentor part; the food part!


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## mikey (Jul 28, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> Before I installed change gears for the first time, I was really intimidated because I wondered if I would be capable of doing it. I was pleasantly surprised to learn that it is not at all difficult.



Nope, it isn't. Change gear lathes are actually capable of cutting far more threads than a QCGB, although it is a bit more inconvenient. My Emco Super 11 has a fantastic QCGB but I have to change gears on occasion and it doesn't bother me one bit, either.


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## Dabbler (Jul 28, 2020)

@Rich20 when I bought my first lathe it was a 750 lb 12X36 lathe made in Taiwan, but very light for its size.  For small work even in tool steels, it held up very well.  I found that the tooling I bought made a big difference in what I could cut.  So I tooled up wuith Kennametal tool holders and I was very happy with the result.  However, 2 years ago I need to chamfer a 9" High tensile corrosion resistant pipe used in oilfields - not a stainless, but a near stainless.  

It just couldn't cut it at all.  I broke 3 Kennametal  carbide inserts trying.  I then put it up on the 14X40 that weighs over double, and it cut it like a charm, _with the same tool holder with the same grade of insert._

Be very wary of over-generalizations, even mine.  There are great Chinese made lathes out there, but you will not find them at a discount price.  there are crappy lathes made everywhere in the world.  You need to keep in midn what your current use is, and what your predictable use of the machine is.  If you are chambering a barrel, that tells you that to fit the barrel, chuck and tailstock, along with the workholding, you need at least 40 inces for a 26" barrel.  If you are doing long stock, the the through hole in the headstock is improtant.  But these are just numbers.  

After more than 30 years of doing this stuff, I'm comfortable buying a used lathe or mill from a machine shop, knowing what the lemons are, etc and fixing what's broke.  That gives you the best bang for the buck.

  -- For a new person, use a reliable vendor, tell him your needs, and work with him to find the lathe that will suit you best.  The guys here will help you a lot, and there's some great advice above.  Narrow your choice down to a couple of lathes and return here and ask people their experience with each of them.  You will probably find at least a couple  of guys that own each lathe, and what their differences really are.


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## Aukai (Jul 28, 2020)

I have received a lot of mentoring....all ya gotta do is ask. If you want answers quicker put up a wrong answer to the question


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## Z2V (Jul 28, 2020)

Aukai said:


> If you want answers quicker put up a wrong answer to the question



Ain't that the truth


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