# Craftsman Tools Today



## racecar builder (Dec 12, 2017)

We are getting ready to replace some open end and boxed end wrenches.

The gist of it is there was a comment in Sears reviews that the open end wrenches he bought were a little strange.

It is probably the Kmart open end set.

He said they looked lobster claw like. Meaning the ends had too much material around the opening and the handle was too short.

Individual open end wrenches look okay so we're going in!

Happy Holidays!


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## dlane (Dec 12, 2017)

Ied check out other brands with lifetime warrantys first.


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## Uncle Buck (Dec 12, 2017)

Sears tools today are not worth consideration. I was once a huge Craftsman fan, but no longer. Depending on what you are looking for and if it is home or at work makes a difference. A lifetime warranty means little if the tools are cheap crap to begin with. Who wants a tool that fails every other time you use it resulting in a trip to get it replaced? Not me. Without sounding too harsh I would not make the core of my mechanics hand tool set Harbor Freight.

A good brand to look for as a solid user, but not priced as high as professional brands like Snap-on would be SK, or Proto. Craftsman tools are now primarily products from China meaning they are no better than Harbor Freight in my opinion.


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## kd4gij (Dec 12, 2017)

Proto is now owned by Stanley. They aren't what they used to be.


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## Bob Korves (Dec 12, 2017)

dlane said:


> Ied check out other brands with lifetime warrantys first.


The question these days becomes "who's lifetime?"


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## PHPaul (Dec 12, 2017)

I agree that the Craftsman name has seen better days.

The last set I got wasn't NEARLY the quality of Craftsman tools from 30 or 40 years ago.  It appears to me they went to cheaper alloys and made up for the loss in strength by using larger castings (or forgings as the case may be) and they _certainly_ cut corners on the finishing.  The end result is a tool that's larger, more crudely made, harder to get into small spaces, doesn't feel like quality in the hand.

I've been getting my hand tools from Home Depot, their Husky brand.  Still not what Craftsman _used_ to be, but better than what they are now.

Add to that the fact that Sears as a company is circling the drain anyway.  They'll likely sell the Craftsman name (if they haven't already) and it'll just get cheaper and more difficult to get the warranty (if any) honored.


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## David S (Dec 12, 2017)

Yes Stanley Black and Decker now own the Craftsman brand name.

David


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## kvt (Dec 12, 2017)

Some of the old stuff yes, but even trying to get things replaced that break is a pain.   I use to have all PROTO, Craftsman and Snapon in my boxes.   Most of tools got stolen then went and replaced with a full set of Craftsman,   Was I  in for a shock  ratchets break and I smashed knuckles   Sockets split down the sides.   Then take them back and get harassed saying I had to be abusing them when the only  thing I worked on was my own stuff.  
Have  not seen the inside of a Sears other than to try and get replacements.  Son in law has been purchasing MAtco,  and several others that still do tool trucks that come to the shops and do the replacements


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## kd4gij (Dec 12, 2017)

Well Stanley bought the craftsman  brand. Time will tell what they do with the hand tools.


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## HBilly1022 (Dec 12, 2017)

Sears is gone in Canada. So I'm pretty sure the lifetime guarantee on my Craftsman tools won't do me any good. 

I have some of their tools and a set of taps and dies from the 70's and that stuff was great.


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## markba633csi (Dec 12, 2017)

Yep Matco is  AFAIK still good. I like the old Thorsen wrenches; they're very smooth and nice.  And I have a set of vintage Snappies I inherited from my Dad.  An old Craftsman 18" breaker bar (one of their best values, in my oppossum/oppinion)
Mark S.
ps what about MAC tools?


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## gman10259 (Dec 12, 2017)

I had a bit of nostalgia a few years back thinking about working with my dad and his old craftsman set of tools so I ordered a set from Sears to add to my tool box. Found out they were made in China and I immediately returned them. That's when I found out that Craftsman was no longer made in the USA. I was able to find a set of USA Made Craftsman from other websites that were selling "Made in The USA" Craftsman tools. Sad to think of such and Iconic USA Name Brand gone. It paralleled losing one of the Big 3 (Chrysler) when they sold to Daimler and then Fiat.


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## Campfire (Dec 12, 2017)

markba633csi said:


> Yep Matco is  AFAIK still good. I like the old Thorsen wrenches; they're very smooth and nice.  And I have a set of vintage Snappies I inherited from my Dad.  An old Craftsman 18" breaker bar (one of their best values, in my oppossum/oppinion)
> Mark S.
> ps what about MAC tools?



Stanley Black & Decker purchased Mac Tools in 1980. They left things alone for a while, but then started changing things in the mid to late 90's. 
I had a heck of a time with a toolbox warranty issue around 1999 or so. They would not repair or replace the box, but give me credit toward a "bigger & better toolbox". 

It's so sad about Craftsman tools. I stopped buying them years ago, and now when they break, I replace them with S-K or Snap-On.


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## royesses (Dec 12, 2017)

When Sears switched to the China made wrenches they went lobster claw. Right now SK has a 40% off sale going on at http://www.skhandtool.com/
Lifetime made in the USA high quality tools. Some of the best customer service in the USA. It's worth a look. Some Craftsman Industrial or Pro are still the Armstrong manufactured version and are very good quality if you can find them.

Roy


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## Aaron_W (Dec 12, 2017)

I've got a decent Craftsman wrench set, but it must be 15 years old. No idea the quality today. I agree with Paul that HD's Husky brand seems to be pretty good for the price.

Sears decline is sad, we went there a lot when I was a kid. I've been watching youtube videos from Essential Craftsman (no relation to Sears) and this one talking about Sears boots amused me. I remember my Dad wearing these same boots when I was a kid. He probably still has a pair, but since I'm no longer 3 feet tall I don't notice his shoes as much. I had no idea these boots were still around.


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## FOMOGO (Dec 12, 2017)

I bought my original set of Craftsman boxes and tools in 75'. Still have 95% of them, and wouldn't trade them for anything. The new stuff is garbage. Went into the local sears store a few days ago, having seen a great price advertised on a 41" top and bottom box set. Really flimsy junk, which accounts for the low price I imagine. Guess I'll be going with the 44" HF units. Mike


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## samthedog (Dec 13, 2017)

Things are a bit easier for us here in Europe. We have the likes Stahlwille, Beltzer, Hazet, Facom and Wera to choose from. All great brands with true lifetime warranty (for most of them) but they do cost a lot. I use Stahlwille myself as they are high tolerance and their metallurgy is second to none.

Paul.


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## Uncle Buck (Dec 14, 2017)

kd4gij said:


> Proto is now owned by Stanley. They aren't what they used to be.



I have seen nothing in the quality of new Proto tools to indicate a drop in the quality of Proto tools. I already knew about the Stanley connection and myself am not a fan of Stanley mechanic tools. That said I have noticed no change in Proto tool quality since Stanley bought them.


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## Uncle Buck (Dec 14, 2017)

FOMOGO said:


> I bought my original set of Craftsman boxes and tools in 75'. Still have 95% of them, and wouldn't trade them for anything. The new stuff is garbage. Went into the local sears store a few days ago, having seen a great price advertised on a 41" top and bottom box set. Really flimsy junk, which accounts for the low price I imagine. Guess I'll be going with the 44" HF units. Mike



While not a big fan of HF I will agree that that the HF chest and roll cab offerings today are head and shoulders over Craftsman now. The only thing HF really needs to improve on their offering of chest and roll cabinets is the number of shallow drawers. That is the glaring issue with the HF boxes, their drawers are way too deep. I like a lot of shallow drawers and would gladly pay more to get them which would happen if HF made that change.


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## Uncle Buck (Dec 14, 2017)

royesses said:


> When Sears switched to the China made wrenches they went lobster claw. Right now SK has a 40% off sale going on at http://www.skhandtool.com/
> Lifetime made in the USA high quality tools. Some of the best customer service in the USA. It's worth a look. Some Craftsman Industrial or Pro are still the Armstrong manufactured version and are very good quality if you can find them.
> 
> Roy


Very good post here. Finding Armstrong now at Sears would be tough, very hit and miss and likely only as closeouts.


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## Uncle Buck (Dec 14, 2017)

kd4gij said:


> Well Stanley bought the craftsman  brand. Time will tell what they do with the hand tools.


I keep hearing they are going to bring the brand back to domestic production. I will not believe that until I see it.


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## kd4gij (Dec 14, 2017)

Well They own Proto for there high end tools and of cores there Stanly tools.  I read that Stanly only bought Craftsman for the outdoor and garden tools. But who knows till it happens.


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## Spfwoody (Dec 19, 2017)

Stanley announced back in October that they were in the process of building a new US factory to shift production back stateside.  They also announced a deal they cut with Lowes to begin selling Craftsman tools in mid to late 2018.  The CEO of Stanley Black & Decker was quoted as saying "Craftsman is still an incredibly strong brand, albeit one that is largely manufactured overseas and basically situated within one major retailer,", "We believe this is an excellent opportunity to invest in, re-Americanize and revitalize this legendary brand, ramp-up product innovation and broaden its distribution.","We already manufacture many products cost effectively in this country and, in some cases, we've been able to bring manufacturing back to the U.S. at a lower cost than producing overseas,"


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## racecar builder (Feb 15, 2018)

Finally ordered some Craftsman wrenches.

One 3/8" x  7/16" open end and two boxed end(or box end as Sears says it) ones.

We'll see!


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## wawoodman (Feb 15, 2018)

Spfwoody said:


> Stanley announced back in October that they were in the process of building a new US factory to shift production back stateside.  They also announced a deal they cut with Lowes to begin selling Craftsman tools in mid to late 2018.  The CEO of Stanley Black & Decker was quoted as saying "Craftsman is still an incredibly strong brand, albeit one that is largely manufactured overseas and basically situated within one major retailer,", "We believe this is an excellent opportunity to invest in, re-Americanize and revitalize this legendary brand, ramp-up product innovation and broaden its distribution.","We already manufacture many products cost effectively in this country and, in some cases, we've been able to bring manufacturing back to the U.S. at a lower cost than producing overseas,"



I’ll believe it when I see it. Not holding my breath, though...


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## machinejack (Feb 15, 2018)

We had this very conversation at our local McDonalds drinking coffee this morning. Tim took a Craftmans wrinch and a Snap On and compaired them on a hold down flair nut. Craftman was loose fitting where the Snap On was right on. Nothing beats my old Bonney's but don't have the complete set any more.


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## BROCKWOOD (Feb 16, 2018)

Old Bonneys are nice. As are Thorsen. Been splitting Craftsman sockets since 1980, but loved their wrenches, ratchets et al. I always picked carefully between Matco, Mac, Cornwell & Proto for many of my tools. The benefit of Craftsman back in the day was getting a replacement tool same day. Waiting for a tool truck to come back around next week just was not the best option. I hope Stanley does leave Proto in peace. Unfortunately, Stanley has been in the business of ruining brand reputation for a hundred years. I check pawn shops for quality tools anymore. Price is Right.


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## MikeInOr (Feb 16, 2018)

kd4gij said:


> Proto is now owned by Stanley. They aren't what they used to be.



When I was a kid I would use my father's Proto sockets as fishing weights.


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## BROCKWOOD (Feb 16, 2018)

Kd4gij, what years was this?


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## MikeInOr (Feb 16, 2018)

I think Stanley bought Craftsman relatively recently 2016? 2017?.

Back in the late 90's and early 2000's Stanley started closing their manufacturing facilities in USA and moved them to Taiwan, China, India and even had a plant in Poland.  At this same time they also started doing a fair bit outsourcing of their production to nameless manufactures in China.  Quality started declining in this period.

I think it was the mid 80's that Stanley bought Proto from Ingersoll Rand.  For quite a while Stanley produced a lot of tools for Home Depot that were sold under the Husky name.  I think Stanley still does manufacture many Husky tools.   Many Mac tools used to be manufactured in the same plants as Proto.

Proto used to be called Plomb tools until about 1950.  Plomb bought P&C (Peterson and Carlsborg) tools in the 1941.  Proto considered itself a decendant of P&C tools.  Thorsen tools was created when the head saleman at P&C quit over a dispute with P&C and formed his own company around 1929.


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## Uncle Buck (Feb 16, 2018)

Funny you mention splitting Craftsman sockets. Honestly I don't ever recall breaking a Craftsman socket, and the only sockets that I ever split


BROCKWOOD said:


> Old Bonneys are nice. As are Thorsen. Been splitting Craftsman sockets since 1980, but loved their wrenches, ratchets et al. I always picked carefully between Matco, Mac, Cornwell & Proto for many of my tools. The benefit of Craftsman back in the day was getting a replacement tool same day. Waiting for a tool truck to come back around next week just was not the best option. I hope Stanley does leave Proto in peace. Unfortunately, Stanley has been in the business of ruining brand reputation for a hundred years. I check pawn shops for quality tools anymore. Price is Right.




Funny you mention splitting Craftsman sockets. Honestly I don't ever recall breaking a Craftsman socket, and the only sockets that I ever split (a few) were all Thorson.


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## MikeInOr (Feb 16, 2018)

Most cheap sockets are hardened in gas ovens on conveyor belts.  The majority of the sockets get hardened to the proper level but some come out too soft and others come out too brittle because a conveyor belt with a flame underneath it is not a precision operation.  High end sockets (Proto, especially the larger sockets) are individually induction hardened with an induction heater.  Induction heating heats the steel by putting the steel in a magnetic field at a high frequency (10khz - 40khz) and the rapid change in magnetic poles excite the atoms in the steel heating them up.  The amount of electrical power going into an induction heating coil can be precisely measured and hence a precise amount of heating can be carefully controlled.... hence the hardness can be carefully controlled resulting in a very consistently hardened socket that does not vary much from piece to piece.

The higher the frequency of an induction heater the less penetration there is on the metal making up the socket socket resulting in the socket itself being heated unevenly.  This allows high end sockets to have the outer surface hardened to a quite hard (to combat wear) while the inner metal in the socket is softer but stronger.

There are several other manufacturing processes that also determine the strength of a socket.  For example cold forging a socket generally gives a denser stronger metal than a hot forged socket.  Of course cold forging requires a much bigger press making them more expensive to produce.

When you pay 4x the amount for a Proto, Mac or Snapon socket this is what you are paying for... a consistently strong, hardened surface and reliable socket vs. a socket whose metallurgical property are different depending on where it lands on the conveyor.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Feb 16, 2018)

For a lot of years Forged in USA ,Craftsman wrenches were made by a firm KD had bought , ETF ?? My old memory slips. I've never liked raised panel wrenches, but they were my first good set. If you find an ugly old KD , they are the same wrench. BTW  The Craftsman were  clunkier but stronger than my later Protos. I had a set of metric Thorens/Acton but replaced them with Craftsman. when they wore out. They didn't last that  long. The wrenches in that set were stamped with either name.  When I spread a 9/16s and a 5/8 , Sears  replaced with them  ones that were likely made in Taiwan. Well finished but even a touch  clunkier !

The Taiwanese Gearwrench  are showing up, they have a good rep internationally. Those new Snap-on ratcheting box ends are made by them.


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## MikeInOr (Feb 16, 2018)

My father worked for Proto / Stanley / NHT for 30+ years.  I have a garage full of Proto tools... I am probably a little biased.


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## mcostello (Feb 16, 2018)

Home Depot wrenches are lobster claw. Bought one never used it and returned it, too ackward.


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## Nogoingback (Feb 16, 2018)

Bob Korves said:


> The question these days becomes "who's lifetime?"



This is a good question since the Craftsman brand has been sold.  Will older tools sold by Sears be warrantied by
Stanley, or only tools produced on their watch?

Besides, some companies just run a bait and switch: they warranty something for "life", and then 10 or 20 years down the road when
warranty costs go up, they simply change the policy.


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## Bob Korves (Feb 16, 2018)

My dad bought, repaired, and then sold used vacuum cleaners in his later years as a hobby business to keep him busy.  He told his customers "This vacuum comes with a lifetime warranty, but please keep in mind that I am 86 years old... "  That is where I caught on to "Who's lifetime?"


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## racecar builder (Feb 17, 2018)

Order came the other day.

Wrenches are A-okay.

Will see how they hold up using them.

For the boxed end they sent polished and my 80's vintage ones are sand cast finish.

Open end wrench is good.  Matches up with what's left of our 80's set.

Was concerned these Sears Craftsman were like picture of Kmart open end wrench set.

K mart wrench set looks like they shrunk it in between wrench heads to same material.

Would give those a pass until they fix that.


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## KBeitz (Sep 10, 2018)

Sears was a love Hate relationship ... At one time it was my go to store...
even if there was one still around I would avoid it today. I never thought
I would see that day.... I still use and love the older tools and tractors.


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## MikeWi (Sep 10, 2018)

We've had this conversation before on this forum, but I'll chime in again that I have a considerable amount of Craftsman tools from my Dad who was a gear head in his younger days. I'm 57 now, and the stuff they make these days is so damn disappointing when I compare them to my Dad's tools. Their ratchets in particular are just plain bad. I'll buy Harbor Freight first (and have) I have to say, I really like their sockets so far, and even took  a chance on a extendable 1/2" ratchet  that was on sale. I haven't been able to break it yet, and its' ratchet works better than a junk-era Craftsman wrench that I have.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Sep 11, 2018)

I pulled on wrenches for a living, so I have some  opinions , I also collect older Canadian made or US made mechanics tools. at the fleamarket..They aren't as nice as current tools.BTW. I have some 3/8s Craftsman sockets from the early '70s, they are really nice, short, fully broached , thin walled, with lead ins, and four dimples. For working on cars, that's as good as it gets. My older cousin told me they were made by Snap-on. I rarely believed what he said. I also have Protos, S-Ks, Armstrong, Heibrand, Williams, Wright, and Gray. They are all made in USA or Canada, and none are as nice as those Craftsman, maybe sturdier but not as nice. My friend gave me  tools his Dad  kept on the boat, they were rusty. Those earlier yet Craftsman sockets were no where as nice as those 1970s ones.

Surprisingly Gearwrench sockets are pretty nice, but so are a lot of the Taiwanese made ones. Gearwrench is also owned by Stanley, surprise, surprise.


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## 8mpg (Sep 11, 2018)

I got my first set of tools, Craftsman, about 20 years ago. While they still work...they arent great. I cant imagine what they are now. I have zero brand loyalty these days and end up buying Kobalt/Husky/HarborFreight these days because its much easier to exchange them. My closest Sears isnt far but its like a ghost town. Im sure it will be closing next year.


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## fast freddie (Sep 11, 2018)

kd4gij said:


> Proto is now owned by Stanley. They aren't what they used to be.


Right, proto went out 30 or 40 yrs ago, Stanley bought the name and markets the brand


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## Nogoingback (Sep 12, 2018)

I bought most of my hand wrenches and sockets years ago: mostly Craftsman and Snap On from when I worked on cars, plus
a mix of other older stuff. 
But, in the last few years, when I have needed the occasional tool that I didn't have I've bought Proto, and I think they're pretty
good tools.  They aren't clunky, feel good in my hands, and seem to fit the fasteners properly.   Whether they'll last or not is 
another question.


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## Janderso (Sep 12, 2018)

I too have mostly Craftsman tools. They were mostly purchased prior to 1980.
They will last my life time and have performed flawlessly.
I bought a 1/4” drive ratchet from Mac, I have had it rebuilt twice. Never rebuilt my 3/8 or 1/2” Craftsman ratchets.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Sep 12, 2018)

A bit of tool history on Proto. The name was Plomb's Canadian subsidiary . Plomb never copyrighted their name and the hammer manufacturer Plumb sued, so they used Proto. Plomb was based in LA and were the inventors of the standard combination wrench . Ingersoll Rand  bought the company, that's when they got a rep as good as the old Williams for industrial tools. My heavy wrenches are from that era.


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## 02vito (Sep 20, 2018)

Been using Craftsman tools, among others, for more than 50 years.  NEVER had a problem with a warranty exchange until last week.

First I was told, "We don't sell those".  Wrong - it is on your website.

Then there was some trouble examining the tool to ensure it is a Craftsman.  I admit the logo is almost gone.

Then I was asked for a receipt [!].

Finally, I told the fellow, "It seems to me like you are looking for an excuse not to help me."

At that I was dismissed with a sarcastic "Have a nice day".

When they put up the "Going Out of Business" sign, maybe I'll go back and wish them a nice day.


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