# Did Evaporust destroy my NOS 4 jaw chuck?



## Shootymacshootface (Apr 29, 2021)

I got this never used 6" 4 jaw chuck with a SB Heavy 10 from my father in law. It never even had a backplate on it. It had light surface rust and years of dust on it, so I figured that Evaporust would clean it up nicely.
 I forgot about it, so it soaked for a few days. I took it out, gave it a hot water rinse and a little Scotch Brite scrub. It came out ok, a little dark though. I didn't notice anything wrong, so I cut an L00 backplate to fit, got it mounted, and when I put the jaws in I noticed this. The threads are falling off on all 4 jaws!


----------



## Gaffer (Apr 29, 2021)

I soaked my heavily rusted vice for several days, fully submerged, in Evaporust. It cleaned up great and I didn't have anything like what your picture shows. I'm not sure what happened to your threads, but I'd be surprised if it was Evaporust. I look forward to hearing from the others and their experiences.


----------



## jwmelvin (Apr 29, 2021)

I really doubt that could have been from the evaporust. The only issue I’ve ever had with it is when a part sticks out of the fluid, leaving an air-fluid-metal interface, which leads to etching at the interface.


----------



## Masterjuggler (Apr 29, 2021)

I've left tools and parts in my evaporust bucket for well over a year and they came out fine. There is no way it could have done that.

When you say the threads are falling off, do you mean you can take a tool and scrape them straight out? How easily?


----------



## MyLilMule (Apr 29, 2021)

Evaporust would not have damaged it. Perhaps the rust was the only thing keeping it together?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Shootymacshootface (Apr 29, 2021)

I can easily knock them off with a screwdriver or a pick. Like picking off a scab. I guess that I could make bigger screws and cut new threads and see what happens to the metal then. This is really wierd. 
Its a cheap old chuck, but I did cut a Buck L00 backplate for it.


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Apr 29, 2021)

looks like porosity in the casting


----------



## extropic (Apr 29, 2021)

I agree with all the other replies above. I've not seen any deterioration of base metal after extended (a few weeks) periods submerged in Evaporust.
Darkening yes, deterioration no.
I see it's a Logan branded, Made In USA chuck. It's hard to imagine a manufacturing defect is the cause.
Are the deteriorating threads at only at one jaw adjuster or multiple?


----------



## markba633csi (Apr 29, 2021)

I see the issue I think- those threads are pretty worn.  The fit gets loose and they start to jam up and break
I have a small english chuck like that with the same type of mech, not the best design
-Mark


----------



## Shootymacshootface (Apr 29, 2021)

One hole has almost no threads at all. I didn't take a picture of that one because it almost looks like it's supposed to be that way. Oh well, another project added to the pile.
How important is it to have Acme threads on these screws?


----------



## Flyinfool (Apr 29, 2021)

Is the damage in the same orientation on all 4 jaws. As mentioned it is an air, fluid, metal interface that causes etching of the metal. if the damage is all on the same side then it might be that there was air trapped in the threads and caused the damage???


----------



## mmcmdl (Apr 29, 2021)

I had the same happen to me . Ruined a tubful of tools soaking in Evaporust for a couple days .


----------



## Lo-Fi (Apr 29, 2021)

Really? I've never seen it touch good metal, only rust. I've had a mishap with plain white vinegar with it heavily etching a part, but I've left all sorts in evaporust. Wonder whether it's just doing its job and removing corroded metal or whether there's a specific reaction with another material at play. Interesting!


----------



## NC Rick (Apr 29, 2021)

I too have soaked a lot of different items in evaporust (including cast iron) and can confirm it wont damage good metal.  The chuck threads may have been rusted that bad and the rust was “chelated“.


----------



## Uglydog (Apr 29, 2021)

I've switched to ATF for derusting. I add acetone if there I need to to get parts separated.
I had good luck with EvapoRust. Just to expensive. 
ATF seems to be at every garage sale.

In the unfortunate event you decide to take this chuck out service, consider retaining it for a shop made RT.
Swap T nuts and hold downs for the jaws. I've got one I'm eventually getting around to for similar repurposing. 

Daryl
MN


----------



## benmychree (Apr 29, 2021)

A poorly designed jaw adjustment, Atlas used the same design, I have one that has stripped threads as well.


----------



## Janderso (Apr 29, 2021)

I believe that's a cast iron chuck. Cast iron is brittle (i'm referring to the broken threads). That's what it looks like to me. I have a chuck with a similar problem.
Evaporust = no way.
my $.02


----------



## RJSakowski (Apr 29, 2021)

It could very  well have been the EvapoRust.  Most likely, the chuck body is cast and the jaws are steel.  There is enough of a difference it the electromotive potential to cause electrolytic corrosion in the presence of an electrolyte. Cast iron isw more noble than steel so the steel will be the sacrificial metal when the two metals are in electrical contact and an electrolyte is present.  EvapoRust is a weak electrolyte and the potential difference is small so the corrosion rate will be slow but given enough time....


----------



## Uglydog (Apr 29, 2021)

RJSakowski said:


> enough of a difference it the electromotive potential to cause electrolytic corrosion in the presence of an electrolyte. Cast iron isw more noble than steel so the steel will be the sacrificial metal when the two metals are in electrical contact and an electrolyte is present.  EvapoRust is a weak electrolyte and the potential difference is small so the corrosion rate will be slow but given enough time....


A sincere thank you for the chemistry.
This is something that I and perhaps others lack.

Daryl
MN


----------



## Nutfarmer (Apr 29, 2021)

The only damage I have seen from EvapoRust was the c shape spring on a set of calipers fell into pieces after an over night soaking. I was told it was from hydrogen embrittlement. I have never had it effect cast iron.


----------



## mmcmdl (Apr 29, 2021)

^^^^^ Same here . A bunch got ruined . I don't like the fact that it turns everything dark either .


----------



## Shootymacshootface (Apr 29, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> ^^^^^ Same here . A bunch got ruined . I don't like the fact that it turns everything dark either .


I don't like the darkened finish afterwards either. 
The chuck was in perfect condition before it went in the Evaporust. I put it, the jaws, and the screws all in separately. There were no parts in the chuck, it was bare.
After hearing all of the great responses, I am convinced that the Evaporust was the cause. That, a very low grade of cast iron, and an excessive amount of time soaking.


----------



## john.k (Apr 29, 2021)

Amazing.....I can understand the caliper spring,as its always under stress,and stress accelerates hydrogen embrittlement......however ,a cast iron chuck body is neither hard steel ,nor under stress.......but it goes back to the old maxim....dont soak stuff in strong chemicals and forget about it.........I recall a young apprentice soaking two Weber DCOE carbies in "Safety Clean solvent bath"......and yelling that the carbies had been stolen.......all the brass bits were still there ,bright and shiny.


----------



## rwm (Apr 29, 2021)

I think what RJ was getting at was there could have been small particles of steel embedded in the cast iron threads. Then galvanic corrosion could come into play and the cast iron would lose.
Robert


----------



## Braeden P (Apr 29, 2021)

Yeah calipers will be ruined I put 200 bucks worth of them in Eastwood rust dissolver for 20 minutes the whole thing was ruined even the threads it is literally acid you need a permit to buy more than 5 gallons!


----------



## Janderso (Apr 29, 2021)

Uglydog said:


> A sincere thank you for the chemistry.
> This is something that I and perhaps others lack.
> 
> Daryl
> MN


You can take that to the bank on my account!


----------



## Dabbler (Apr 29, 2021)

I have had a similar effect once before, but what caused it was extreme rusting, which the evaporust removed as is its job - but then there was nearly nothing left.  If there was condensation between the thread and the casting, it might account for the loss of metal mass


----------



## RJSakowski (Apr 30, 2021)

Looking more closely atr the first photo, it is the cast iron body that is eroded so I would suspect inpurities in the casting as the culprit.  The chuck is ostensibly new and the damage doesn't appear to be typical of what would occur with a mechanical break.  If it impurities were oxidized metal, the EvapoRust  could have leached them out.  If they were dissimilar metals, electrolytic action could be at play.


----------



## markba633csi (Apr 30, 2021)

John: did you look at those threads closely before you put it in the bath?  Was there wear that you just didn't notice or are you fairly sure the soaking did it? 
-Mark


----------



## RandyWilson (Apr 30, 2021)

What is evaporust? What is the chemical process?  Anyone know?  For years and years we've been blasted with magic rust removal products that don't hurt the base metal. "restore to like new".  I've had enough chemistry classes to call BS.


----------



## MrWhoopee (Apr 30, 2021)

Shootymacshootface said:


> One hole has almost no threads at all. I didn't take a picture of that one because it almost looks like it's supposed to be that way. Oh well, another project added to the pile.
> How important is it to have Acme threads on these screws?


This is a place where Acme threads are called for, lots of pressure.


----------



## Dabbler (Apr 30, 2021)

AFAIK Evaporust is a buffered phosphoric acid.  It's action on metal is very slow, but reduces oxides of metal quickly.


----------



## RandyWilson (Apr 30, 2021)

Phosphoric acid is common, and old. But it doesn't jive with evaporust's claims of bio-degradeable safe friendly promotes healthy yada yada yada. In searching I kept running into one often quoted series of posts about Chelation. But my eyesight goes blurry, I have trouble breathing and my hand hurts from slapping the desk when I get to the part about contains SYNTHETIC iron molecules.

 I did finally come across one white paper on chelation in a non-medical setting. 
https://www.dow.com/content/dam/dcc...of-the-chemistry-of-chelation.pdf?iframe=true


----------



## RJSakowski (Apr 30, 2021)

EvapoRust doesn't contain phosphoric acid.  According to the MSDS sheet, it contains a chelating agent and a detergent.  The chalting agent forms a strong chemical bond with iron ions, removing them from solution and promoting dissolution of iron oxide on the work.  The detergent is probably functioning as a wetting agent.


----------



## Shootymacshootface (Apr 30, 2021)

Here are a few more views.



Very disappointing.


----------



## Shootymacshootface (Apr 30, 2021)

RJSakowski said:


> EvapoRust doesn't contain phosphoric acid.  According to the MSDS sheet, it contains a chelating agent and a detergent.  The chalting agent forms a strong chemical bond with iron ions, removing them from solution and promoting dissolution of iron oxide on the work.  The detergent is probably functioning as a wetting agent.


The detergent was the main reason that I even did this. The biggest issue was the dried up oil and grime on the chuck. Like I said before, I don't think that this chuck was ever even mounted to a backplate.


----------



## jwmelvin (Apr 30, 2021)

It’s my understanding that a part should be degreased or at least generally cleaned of gunk and oil before going in evaporust.


----------



## Dabbler (Apr 30, 2021)

thanks @RJSakowski - I didn't look it up, but the derusters I've used at work mostly seem to contain phosphoric acid, so I assumed...  You know what assuming does!

ALl the best!

[edit]
I did a minute of research and found this article on chelating iron oxide that some may find helpful.









						Rust Removal by Chelation
					

Rust removal by chelation does not dissolve steel like the strong acids.  The chelating agent used to remove rust are organic and biodegradable.




					discover.hubpages.com


----------



## NC Rick (Apr 30, 2021)

Shootymacshootface said:


> Here are a few more views.
> View attachment 364418
> View attachment 364419
> 
> Very disappointing.


From your photos i would “ASSUME” those threads would still work fine.


----------



## Dabbler (Apr 30, 2021)

@Shootymacshootface you may find this article on Evaporust assuring that it didn't do too much to your good iron...









						Are Evapo-Rust and Deox-C really safe? | StudioVRM.net
					






					studiovrm.net


----------



## Lo-Fi (Apr 30, 2021)

Did you take any before photos, @Shootymacshootface ?


----------



## Shootymacshootface (Apr 30, 2021)

NC Rick said:


> From your photos i would “ASSUME” those threads would still work fine.


I do plan on using it until it doesn't work anymore. 


Lo-Fi said:


> Did you take any before photos, @Shootymacshootface ?


I wish I had, but I assure everyone that they were in perfect condition before I got to it.


----------



## extropic (Apr 30, 2021)

Regarding the "clean before de-rusting" issue. Yes, that is recommended, to get the maximum life (usefulness) from a quantity of Evaporust. However, I've soaked some filthy steel parts for extended periods without noticeable deterioration to the parent metal. I don't think contamination from dried oil/grime caused the deterioration of the threads. I have no hypothesis (except defective parent material) to explain the deterioration pictured. It's a puzzlement to me.


----------



## Shootymacshootface (Apr 30, 2021)

Ha ha, I do remember reading the label, and it saying something about the detergents and it not being necessary to degrease your parts, it may just take longer to work. Oh, and it won't harm metal.


----------

