# gear grease



## Flyrod (Jun 10, 2017)

I have read on numerous threads that you should not use grease on your gears ... in this case, I am referring to the change gear change

I finally pulled the trigger and bought the manual for my machine (Model #957)

on page 10 under the oiling diagram it says:

"a small amount of graphite grease should be kept on the teeth of all gears in the headstock, the apron, and on the teeth of the rack on the underside of the front way"

is this what others are routinely doing?

i take "graphite grease" to be an actual grease and not a dry graphite lubricant

thoughts?

thanks


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## wa5cab (Jun 10, 2017)

Yes, it means grease containing graphite.  The grease should also have a relatively high temperature melting point.  The excuse usually given for not using grease is "it attracts or catches swarf (shavings)".  Which is true.  Although so does oil.  But you aren't supposed to operate your machines with the covers open or removed.


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## Flyrod (Jun 10, 2017)

Thanks Robert

To be clear, with the above instruction, that is the sole source of lubrication for the gear drive? - just some graphite grease on the teeth?

i guess the bushings are all lubed via roller bearings or oilite bushings...so no other oil...just the the grease on the teeth?

is this the kind of product you are talking about:

https://www.amazon.com/HyHeet-Graphite-Grease-14-5oz-cartridge/dp/B004DPD622


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## wa5cab (Jun 10, 2017)

The grease is only for the open gear teeth.  Any bearings, whether sleeve, ball or roller, will presumably receive oil in some other manner.  I don't have any paper on any 900 Series model, and catalog information only on the 955.  So I don't know what else the 957 lubrication instructions say.

If you want to wait about a week or 10 days to decide, I found the detailed specs on the HyHeet graphite grease interesting enough that I just ordered a cartridge of it to try out on my Atlas in place of the Lubriplate that I have used for years.


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## Bob Korves (Jun 11, 2017)

Grease works fine.  Keep grit and swarf out of it, and clean the gears at intervals and if they look dirty.  An amount of grease equal to how much toothpaste you put on a brush to brush your teeth is enough to lube all the gears on two 13" lathes.  The only lube that is lubricating is that on the contact surfaces, so only put it there, just enough to show a wet coat on the flanks of the teeth.  I use a tiny toothbrush for that.  It will last for a long time and will not fling off.


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## EmilioG (Jun 11, 2017)

These are my favorites:
Look under gear grease:

https://www.dowcorning.com/content/publishedlit/80-3256.pdf


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## Bob Korves (Jun 11, 2017)

Be careful with molybdenum disulfide  (moly) greases when used on ball bearings, and perhaps on roller bearings as well.  They can make the balls slide instead of roll, ruining the bearings.  There are probably caveats to this old information, but I would not use a moly grease on any application the manufacturer does not specifically recommend it for.  That said, moly grease is a great low friction grease (the moly is like microscopic balls), and I use it regularly.  Also watch out for getting it on clothing and similar.  It stains it black forever.


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## Flyrod (Jun 11, 2017)

thanks guys

Robert this is another one that seemed interesting:
http://www.ravenol.de/en/products/usage/d/Product/show/p/ravenol-mehrzweckfett-mit-graphit.html


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## Rustrp (Jun 11, 2017)

I think it's important to stop and check compatability especially when adding to or mixing oils, lubricants, and grease. In this regard I'm specifically referring to the additives, are they acidic or alkaline. i.e. When changing types, clean or remove the one in use, or know your snake oil. 

This is one link that gives some basic direction. I know we are talking aboout open gears but excessive wear can happen over a short period of time when one lubricant cancels the properties of another. The same rule applies to lubricants as most products. If a little is good, it doesn't mean a lot is better.

http://machinerylubrication.com/Read/911/lubricant-incompatibility


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## Rustrp (Jun 11, 2017)

Flyrod said:


> thanks guys
> 
> Robert this is another one that seemed interesting:
> http://www.ravenol.de/en/products/usage/d/Product/show/p/ravenol-mehrzweckfett-mit-graphit.html



The graphite is an additive and the type you need has a lot less horsepower than the link you provided. I doubt your lathe will be subjected to the conditions the grease is designed for. There are many types of grease with graphite additives that work well and are less expensive for your purpose.


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## Flyrod (Jun 11, 2017)

rustrp...thank you

i am right there with you

in fact, i point out the ravenol b/c it is $4.85 for a cartridge (http://www.ebay.com/itm/RAVENOL-Mul...511408?hash=item3abf7975b0:g:a-8AAOSwP~tW5yCD)  v. the $18.50 for the HyHeet (https://www.amazon.com/HyHeet-Graphite-Grease-14-5oz-cartridge/dp/B004DPD622)

being too good is perfect if it costs a third!


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## Rustrp (Jun 11, 2017)

Flyrod said:


> rustrp...thank you
> 
> i am right there with you
> 
> ...



Pricing on Ebay or Amazon, along with claims of the usefulness wasn't my primary focus. I didn't look to see where the product was sold.


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## Flyrod (Jun 11, 2017)

my bad - i thought when you wrote "There are many types of grease with graphite additives that work well and are less expensive for your purpose." you meant that it was  a good product but too expensive

I think i now understand you are saying it is not good for my application (even if it is cheap)

got it and thanks for the clarification!


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## Rustrp (Jun 11, 2017)

Flyrod said:


> my bad - i thought when you wrote "There are many types of grease with graphite additives that work well and are less expensive for your purpose." you meant that it was  a good product but too expensive
> 
> I think i now understand you are saying it is not good for my application (even if it is cheap)
> 
> got it and thanks for the clarification!


Both of the two you mentioned are high heat, so the question is do you need or want high heat grease. Some of the high temp, high load grease is also very tacky which means things stick to it (swarf) because it's designed to stick to the gears and when the gears are in motion it sounds like a horse pulling it's foot out of the mud. I would think somewhere in the lubrication instructions specs and types are defined.


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## Flyrod (Jun 11, 2017)

ah ... i'm with you now

the manual only says:

"a small amount of graphite grease should be kept on the teeth of all gears in the headstock, the apron, and on the teeth of the rack on the underside of the front way"

it makes no mention of any spec of grease

as to high temp, i was following Robert's suggestion on post #2 above

thanks

EDIT: a copy of the manual page is attached


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## wa5cab (Jun 12, 2017)

Fly, I would skip the German grease.  Their web page just didn't give me a warm fuzzy.  It is poorly translated.  When you read it, it feels like Chinglish.  They didn't bother to translate part of it (bei instead of at, and Graphit instead of Graphite).  The units are Metric.  They say in writing that the grease parameters vary from batch to batch.  etc.  And as a high temperature grease, it really isn't.  Only good up to 266 F.  Etc.

Rust, the reason that I suggested a high temperature rated grease is that when the carrier in the grease melts, the grease starts to sling off.  That is both messy and expensive.  Open gear grease needs to be tacky, else it immediately slings off leaving you with both the mess and no lubrication.  As far as the old canard about grease attracting swarf, it doesn't.  "Attracting" implies a force similar to magnetism.  If any happens to hit the grease, it will probably be captured.  But, as I said before, you are not supposed to operate the machine with covers open or removed.  As far as compatibility is concerned, the Heet usage instructions flatly state that it isn't compatible with any other grease.  And caution the user to completely remove the old grease before the first application.

Fly, it probably wouldn't help if the lube instructions specified a grease, because whatever they recommended probably wouldn't be made any more.  Like the gear grease that Atlas specified.  The company that made it was bought out by a French outfit.  Shortly afterwards the Atlas recommended grease was discontinued.  I was a little surprised, however, that Logan did not specify a viscosity for the oil to use in the more than a dozen places that it says to use it.  I would guess that SAE 20 ND (ISO 68) would be appropriate.


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## Flyrod (Jun 14, 2017)

Robert - thank you very much

I didn't extract the whole lubrication section...here it is

for all other places they recommend "no more than" a 10wt (which surprises me b/c 10wt is really thin)


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## Rustrp (Jun 15, 2017)

Flyrod said:


> Robert - thank you very much
> 
> I didn't extract the whole lubrication section...here it is
> 
> for all other places they recommend "no more than" a 10wt (which surprises me b/c 10wt is really thin)


 The weight of the oil is important but equally important, probably moreso is the frequency the lathe is oiled. To clarify my comments regarding the grease;  grease with a graphite additive comes in a wide range with many different characteristics. Rather than become entangled in semantics, here's a link with some good information. I think Bob commented on the amount to apply and how, which would limit grease being slung from the gear cluster. 

http://www.skf.com/group/products/l...nderstanding-grease-technical-data/index.html


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## Flyrod (Jun 15, 2017)

thanks Rustrp

What graphite grease (mfg/part number) would use in a logan 11" lathe that said:

"a small amount of graphite grease should be kept on the teeth of all gears in the headstock, the apron, and on the teeth of the rack on the underside of the front way"

thanks in advance


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## Rustrp (Jun 15, 2017)

Flyrod said:


> thanks Rustrp
> 
> What graphite grease (mfg/part number) would use in a logan 11" lathe that said:
> 
> ...



As I stated, I'm not inclined to get into semantics on which specific grease, especially when referring to high heat or load. As the instruction manual states, "small amount" and then consider what lubricant technology was at the time the instructions were printed. This was the reason I posted the link, and all you need is there to read. Applying the grease with a toothbrush and leaving only a small amount (thin film) prevents almost any graphite based grease from leaving the place intended. If you have enough heat build up to cause the grease to drip, you have problems other than lubrication. Make a choice based on a producer with a known reputation. Walk into any automotive parts store and pick up a container of grease with a graphite additive, easy to apply and use it. I wouldn't base the choice on price alone unless you are choosing between Chevron or Mobil etc. You will be checking lubrication points on a regular basis so if you see a problem address it. -Russ

"There's enough mystery in the world without creating more." -Someone said.


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## wa5cab (Jun 15, 2017)

Flyrod,

Atlas also listed SAE 10 in all of their publications prior to 1947.  Their first Atlas QCGB Operator's Manual published in 1947 says SAE 20 and the first Craftsman one printed in 1950 says SAE 20.  Tthe MOLO, as far as I can tell (prior to 1954 they are hard to date) continued to say SAE 10 until 1954 when it changed to SAE 20.  No reason is given for the change.


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## Flyrod (Jun 17, 2017)

hmmm 

Thx Robert

I have a gallon of spindle oil (10wt) - i guess i'll go through that first since I have it and then reassess

thanks again for all of your guidance


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## wa5cab (Jun 17, 2017)

Sounds reasonable.


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## Chuck K (Jun 17, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> Be careful with molybdenum disulfide  (moly) greases when used on ball bearings, and perhaps on roller bearings as well.  They can make the balls slide instead of roll, ruining the bearings.  There are probably caveats to this old information, but I would not use a moly grease on any application the manufacturer does not specifically recommend it for.  That said, moly grease is a great low friction grease (the moly is like microscopic balls), and I use it regularly.  Also watch out for getting it on clothing and similar.  It stains it black forever.


Back in the day, Harley Davidson warned owners not to use synthetic oil in their bikes because it was too slippery and it would cause "bearing skate".  Seems that problem was rectified when they started selling their Syn III oil for 10 bucks a quart that can be used safely in all of their bikes back to the beginning of time.  I'm sure they weren't misleading their customers all these years,  they just had to find the right blend.....one with the HD logo.  I use the same logic with my machines as I have with my harleys.  I use what works for me.  Open gear grease works well on the gears on the back of my lathe and I haven't found any accumulation of swarf.


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## Scruffy (Jul 19, 2017)

Any oil is better than none.
Scruffy


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## rambin (Jul 19, 2017)

I see no need for high temp grease as theres no heat build up on the change gears and very little loading...  what would be wrong with a normal bearing and chassis grease?  or even some of the new synthetic greases we all use on our vehicles now days?  grease is prbly more proned to not dripping or flying off compared to oil... just for my curiousity?


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## Silverbullet (Jul 21, 2017)

Gear oils and grease are made to be tacky to stick to the teeth of the gears. I always liked the gear oil display that used to be on the counters in the parts stores for lucus oil additive the stuff hangs on the gears like snott on a two year old . The more you turned the display the smoother it got and it would drip off for several minutes when left . I'd not be afraid of using a gear oil on my logan ever. I still use way oil everywhere else .


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## wa5cab (Jul 21, 2017)

Way oil is also supposed to be slightly tacky.  I guess mostly for use on the knee dovetails (vertical) of mills.  I wouldn't think that it would be the best thing to use on ball and roller bearings.  More "sticktion" and heat buildup.


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