# New guy looking for the right lathe



## beech277 (Sep 3, 2014)

Hi all,  

Just found your site a few days ago and introduced myself over in the new members section.  

I've been reading a lot of info over the past few days and the Craftsman/Atlas seems to keep coming up.  I found one locally and actually looked at it on CL at least twice over the past few days before I realized what it was.  I can't find a lot of info on what these machines go for, so I hope it's ok if I post a link to it and get your opinions this one.  I'm a total newb, so any and all advice is appreciated.

http://nashville.craigslist.org/mpo/4647946671.html

Kevin


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## Bishop (Sep 3, 2014)

I think he is pretty out to lunch on the price, even where I live I wouldn't think to pay that much for a small atlas lathe. The tooling he has listed is pretty common fair on most lathes you would buy so no real additional value in tooling to justify the price. I have owned an atlas lathe and looked at a few more and my advice would be to look for something either newer or built to a slightly higher standard. 

Shawn

ps. Just looked at the photos again and he is showing two completely different lathes in the photos. One of the photos shows a 12" atlas headstock.

pss $100 more and much better lathe  http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/4642690432.html


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## beech277 (Sep 3, 2014)

Thanks Shawn, 

I appreciate the info.  

I saw that  one, but the listing was so vague I wasn't to sure about it. Can you tell what model it is from the pictures?


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## Cheeseking (Sep 3, 2014)

Welcome aboard.   So is 1K your approximate price range??    Great.   2k it is.   We will start shopping!   Ok kidding but it sometimes goes down that way right?
Most of the regulars here know and will tell you tooling up the lathe or other machines can really add up and often exceed the price of the machine itself. So just something to keep in mind.
If you will, allow me to deviate from your question regarding the atlas and suggest (stretching) to something  a touch more substantial.  Again, not knowing your situation it may be impractical but here is one I believe to be ideal for many hsm types like us with limited space and rigging equipment.   It's decent size yet small enough to break into bits for moving if needed.   Geared head.  Camlock spindle. Foot brake.  Threading.  Power feeds.  I'd offer him a lot less to start and would go to 1,750 -2k.    If you can do it and not end up divorced you wont be sorry.  

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=271279923034

Now if you are set on something like the craftsman I would say for the price the machine better be in pristine shape.  If not $500 or so. You can find lots of info on the atlases, craftsman and most other lathes at lathes.uk.  Google it or someone may be able post the link.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bishop (Sep 3, 2014)

Hey Kevin, the lathe I linked to is a South Bend, model 9C. It would be the least featured of the 9" south bend models. No quick change gear box and no clutch but for a first lathe it would be a good option, especially if your options are limited. I own a 9B and have been quite happy with it so far. Changing the gears for threading is a bit of a pain but I'm not usually in a rush so don't really mind. 

Shawn

This lathe http://clarksville.craigslist.org/tls/4579271380.html would be a better choice than the Atlas AFAIC and it's cheaper as well. Do you have any idea what size of lathe your looking for, features etc?


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## wa5cab (Sep 3, 2014)

Both the Craftsman and the South Bend are over priced, the Craftsman more so than the SB because besides being smaller, it is missing its countershaft and SB lathes tend to go for more.  Perhaps mainly because there are many more of the various Atlas built models around.  In any case, without the countershaft, the 6" is only good for 8 speeds, not its original 16.  If either one included a few of the harder to find accessories like milling attachment, steady rest, etc., that might change the picture a little.

Speaking of pictures, the fourth one from the left in the ad is of the headstock from a Craftsman Commercial 12x24 or 12x36.  I think it's off of the cabinet model.  And it may be of ONLY the headstock.  But if you stumble across one of those complete for $975 or $1000, that would be a good price.

I'm not going to comment on the little Chicom lathe as it is out of place here.

The first thing that you need to decide before looking for a lathe is why you want a lathe (i.e., what you hope to do with it).  That will determine the size you need.  As a good rule of thumb, buy one that will handle parts at least somewhat larger.  However, if you could get by with a 12" but most of your parts could be made on a 6", don't buy a 16".  Then decide whether you would rather have vintage American or new Chicom.  The latter will on average cost more and at least the cheaper ones not last as long.  But unless you get a lemon (probability usually being inversely proportional to what you pay for it), no work will be required to put it into operation.  THEN you can start trolling CL, eBay, and boards like this one or start looking in the Enco, Grizzly, etc. catalogs.  And there are Fora on this board for pretty much anything that you decide to buy.

Robert D.

Robert D.

Robert D.


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## Charles Spencer (Sep 3, 2014)

I second Shawn's opinion as well.  The Atlas is overpriced by about $600 in my opinion.

The South Bend is similar to the first metal lathe that I bought.  I like it a lot.  I still use it as a secondary operation machine.  Around here that price would be on the high side, but not nearly as bad as the Atlas.

I don't know what the going prices are in your area as they vary from region to region.  Hard as it might be, I'd cool my jets if I were you.  Take a month or so to see what they are going for around there.  Besides, occasionally a really good deal does come up.  You might also ask around amongst friends and (especially) co-workers.  I've gotten some really good deals that way.  I knew a guy who was looking to buy a banjo, but kept it kind of quiet.  So while he was searching, his brother sold one cheap.  

Just my two cents worth.

Charles


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## beech277 (Sep 3, 2014)

Thanks for all the great comments. Please keep them coming. 

So, I called about both the South Bend. Left a message with them, now waiting on a call back. The Atlas I'm thinking is too small. I'm not opposed to an import lathe, but I'd like something that can be passed down. Also, the longer I look the bigger my budget can grow. 

As as far as what I want to do with it. My initial projects after I get the hang of using a lathe, would be making a solid collar to eliminate the pinion crush sleeve on my FJ-40. My other thought was to make new blade guide wheels for my Craftsman band saw. I had believed parts for this saw were made of unobtianium until a few days ago. I'd also like to do some light gun smithing, mostly crown work and possibly truing an action. I'd like as many features as I can get. Quick change gears and power feed sound appealing, but as long as I can find a quality machine and enjoy using it I'll be happy. 

I put the word in with a friend tonight that I was looking for a lathe. He is going to ask his dad, who ran a machine shop his whole life, if he has any leads. 

Thanks again,

Kevin


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## beech277 (Sep 4, 2014)

Just saw this one on CL. What do y'all think?

http://bgky.craigslist.org/bfs/4648485438.html

Kevin


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## wa5cab (Sep 4, 2014)

Kevin,

As absolute minimum cost does not appear to be your first priority, I would suggest you go for one with a Quick Change Gear Box.  The QCGB doesn't improve the accuracy or handling capability but goes a long way to increasing convenience of operation.  You should also go with one that has power cross feed (not all of them do).  For gunsmithing, you need one that will handle up to about 36" between centers (the maximum length part that will fit between headstock and tailstock).  Another consideration is spindle bore (the maximum diameter part that can be passed through or partially through the headstock spindle).  The final major size criteria is swing.  This is the largest diameter workpiece that can be mounted to the headstock and still clear the bed.  However, the swing is what will clear the bed.  The other two sub-specs are swing over carriage wings, which will be a little smaller than the rated swing, and at least for gunsmithing, not particularly important.  And swing over carriage.  This would be important for working on any part much over say 6" long.  Swing over carriage for various rated swings varies somewhat between makes but could be typically said to be somewhere around half of the rated swing.  So from all of that, you should be looking for something between 9x36 and 12x36.

Before I go further, I'll say that although some gunsmithing jobs might be a bit more convenient with a spindle bore large enough to pass the entire barrel and receiver through the headstock, not being able to won't keep you from doing the work.  I won't go into the details right now.

Anyway, there are that I'm relatively familar with four American manufacturers who made machines that fall into this range, in alphabetical order (hey, this IS the Atlas forum!):

Atlas (also sold by Sears under the Craftsman badge and later with nameplates that say Atlas-Clausing - Atlas actually bought Clausing around 1950 but later changed the company name to Clausing for reasons having nothing to do with the machines you would be interested in)

Clausing (briefly in the early 1950's sold with Atlas badges and different model numbers - the badges were quickly changed back to Clausing but the model number change continued).

Logan (also sold by Montgomery-Wards)

South Bend (still being sold under the same name but Chinese made and definitely not the same machines).

There may be one or two others and any proponents feel free to chime in.

All made one or more models in the range between 9" and 12" swing with at least 36" between centers.  There is a forum on this board covering each and at least some of the manuals on each make can be found in Downloads.

My choice out of the lot, in part because I've owned one for 33 years, have a friend whom I know is using one for gunsmithing (I found it for him), and know that parts availability is still relatively good by comparison to the other three, would be the Atlas or Craftsman (only difference is the badge) 12x36 Commercial, made from late 1957 through early 1981.  They came in both cabinet (under drive) and bench models.  I have the former and my friend has a Craftsman version of the latter.  Others will certainly have different opinions.

Robert D.


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## Bishop (Sep 4, 2014)

beech277 said:


> Just saw this one on CL. What do y'all think?
> 
> http://bgky.craigslist.org/bfs/4648485438.html
> 
> Kevin




Im no expert on south bend lathes but that one looks a little odd to me. The bearing on the right side of the lead screw doesn't look like anything I have seen on a SB before and the cover on the headstock doesn't seem to match the actual headstock casting? If I had to guess I would say there is more than just south bend parts on that lathe, the cross slide handle is odd and it seems to be missing the tension arm for the countershaft assembly. I would be curious what others thought. 

Shawn


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## Charles Spencer (Sep 4, 2014)

The tensioning arm is missing.  And I'd guess it is not the original lead screw bearing.  The headstock cover is similar to, but not exactly like one that I have.  That seems to be a minor variation.  Also the motor mount appears to be unusual and I think probably not the best set up.

That being said, I'd go for it for $250.  Providing there is no major faults not visible in the photos.  I've enhanced them a bit:






This lathe will need a little work.  The tensioner arm could probably be fabricated with parts from the hardware store.  If the lead screw bearing works then I would let it be for now.  Same for the cross slide handle.  I would say that the motor mount should be changed.

There is a large amount of information on this lathe available for free on the web.  I think it could be a fun project.

And if worse came to worse, you probably wouldn't lose any money if you re-sold it.

Charles


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## chuckorlando (Sep 4, 2014)

I'm a guy who like old used bigger is better kinda machines. That being said, if your not into production, I dont see you wearing out any machine to the point of not passing it down. American or Import. Unless it's well on it's way to the crapper when you get it.


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## beech277 (Sep 4, 2014)

Thanks for the input.  I really appreciate everyones comments and opinions.  

The guy with the 9C sent me an email and posted some more pics with the ad.  He also said he may link a video later. I may go look at it next week if it's still available, however I think I want to wait on a more fully featured lathe.  And, my first suspicions were confirmed that the lathe I linked last night that it was a little more work than I want to get into right now, although the price is nice. I'd like to be able to start out without to much hassle.

Kevin


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## Bishop (Sep 4, 2014)

Good idea to wait for the right deal. My advice would be to make a list of must haves and wants and then keep checking your local adds on a regular basis with the phone in your hand. Good deals are not that rare but you do need to be quick on the draw to get them. 

Shawn


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## Falcon67 (Sep 4, 2014)

I'm not an expert or even a drip under pressure but I'll relate this - I got the hots to have a lathe and had no idea what I could do with it, or how big a one I needed.  Drove the wife nuts about it "buy one ALREADY" then finally scored a new HF 9x20 on a sale with a 25% coupon (back in the day when they did such things).  I had looked at a 12x36 in the local store and though "man, that's big".  Anyway, got the little one home for under $500 and a trip to Dallas.  I had it maybe 6 months and was sure that while it was a decent tool, I coulda shoulda got one bigger.  I had no idea how much I'd really use it.  Which turned out to be "a bunch".  It's paid for it's raising many times over, in both cash and convenience.  After all this time - about 10 years - I now have a 12x36 sitting on the floor in the shop.  Just something to keep in mind.  IMHO, if you start small, try to start cheap.  Once you find out what you can - or could - do with it, you may well be on the hunt again.  Everybody hates buying twice LOL.

Edit - I bought an Enco model (China) because decent used lathes are just not readily found around here.  They pop up once in a while and usually at a big premium because there isn't - never was- a lot of small manufacturing here.  Big stuff - CNC mills, 460V lathes that can turn drill pipe is the usual thing.  And most have looked to be sitting in an open shed for a few years before they went on sale.  To hunt even a decent Bridgeport type mill, the resellers are 200 miles east or 200 miles west.  So New China for $2100 was the call here.  YMMV.


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## beech277 (Sep 4, 2014)

I seem to be finding mostly South Bends and I have seen a few of the larger Atlas lathes. The Atlas 12x36 seems to command a higher asking price than the SB 9 series. So, how noticeable if any would the differences in these two machines be? Say the 9A vs the Atlas with comparable features.  Would I find myself handicapped on certain tasks?

I found these two both seem to be more feature filled than what I has seen so far. 

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/4616840914.html

http://www.bismanonline.com/content/action/Search?q=Lathe&searchCategoryId=All&x=-939&y=-210&sto=on

I have a close friend that lives 45 minutes from the second on linked, so it wouldn't be to hard to make that one happen. 

Kevin


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## Bishop (Sep 4, 2014)

My thoughts Kevin, the under drive SB with cabinet would definitely be worth a closer look at that price. The Atlas is overpriced AFAIC. 

Shawn


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## beech277 (Sep 6, 2014)

Edit: The one, near Cincinnati, I was most interested in is not for sale anymore. The individual selling it said he changed his mind.  

So, I have found two more Atlas lathes. I pretty sure the one I want is the furtherest away. It has the taper and mill attachments. Which of all the tooling I have seen so far on the machines I'm looking at those two items, especially the milling attachment seems to be something I would use a bit. However, you guys may correct me and tell me I would use some other tooling more. 

Also, I called about the SB close to my friend in ND and he said he picked it up at a government auction.  I'm not sure if that's good or bad as an indication of wear. However, if I do decide on that machine it will be a number of months before it makes it's way home to me. So, I'm inclined to wait and see if something else comes up like these two Atlas machines. 

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/tls/4653381645.html

http://lexington.craigslist.org/tls/4606805545.html

The one close to Lexington is supposed to send pictures today and I will post them when I get them. It is the under drive model with QC gears. He said the gears were busted when he got it, but he replaced them. Also, it has a four jaw chuck. 










Thanks again for for all your help. 

Kevin


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## wa5cab (Sep 7, 2014)

Kevin,

The first link gets a message saying that the originator has deleted the listing.  The one near Lexington is a Craftsman 101.28990   Same as the Atlas 3996.  Arguably the best lathe Atlas ever built.  The asking price is within the reasonable range for that model.  If the two chucks are the only accessories that come with it, that's not much in the way of accessories.  But if they are original, and in good condition, they are good quality although not top quality (the difference in new price between good and top usually runs 200 to 500%).  

Your question/comment about useful accessories earlier may have been about the lathe that no longer shows up.  But my comments on accessories are that if you don't have a mill, then the order of importance for most people would be Quick Change Tool Post (AXA for this lathe), milling attachment and milling cutter holder with drawbar, steady rest, carriage stop, face plate, cross slide stop, taper attachment, others.  Of course, what you actually need to do most frequently on the lathe could modify that list.  

One thing new lathe or mill owners often don't realize, regardless of the brand or badge, is that whatever the bare machine cost (assuming that you didn't get it for next to nothing), adequate tooling (including accessories) is going to cost that much again up to four times that much.  At $1400 for this one, you are probably looking at about that much again.

Robert D.


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## chuckorlando (Sep 7, 2014)

Heres a nice looking 10ee  http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/tls/4637091457.html


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## fastback (Sep 7, 2014)

The Monarch is a nice heavy duty machine.  It's like Cadillac compared to an Atlas (Volkswagen) or a South Bend (Ford or Chevy) .  As for me, I like the Southbend with all of accessories; steady rest, follow rest, face plate, drive plates, collets etc.  The key in my opinion is the spindle hole.  The 9A Southbend has a 3/4 inch hole and so does the 12 inch Atlas, I think.  So I don't think one is better than the other (Atlas or SB) except the Southbend is probably more heavy duty.   Don't get me wrong all of these lathe will do the job.  I just have a soft spot for Southbends.

Paul


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## wa5cab (Sep 7, 2014)

One minor comment I'll throw in is that, just considering the 12" (Atlas or Craftsman), there are two significantly different versions.  The 1960/70 models are about 25% heavier all around than the 1940/50 models and if the automobile analogy is fair, are easily up into the Ford/Chevrolet category (I would rather consider them Land Rovers).  All of them use Timken spindle bearings so spindle wear is not an issue.  And they use V-belts.  The spindle ID is in fact 3/4" (actually 25/32").

That being said, if a 9" machine is large enough for what you want to do, and a 3/4" through spindle is large enough, the accessories that come with it could be used as the deciding factor.  Comparable accessories for the Atlas are pretty readily available but they aren't cheap.

Robert D.


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## Fabrickator (Sep 8, 2014)

beech277 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just found your site a few days ago and introduced myself over in the new members section.
> 
> ...




I bought the same lathe for my first lathe for $600 with all kinds of tooling.  It was too small to do what I had in mind and so I sold it several years later for the same amount (with a bit more tooling). That guy is asking way too much.

I bought a Grizzly G0602 and have been very satisfied with it's performance.


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## beech277 (Sep 8, 2014)

Dang, y'all are making my decision tough.  I really like both the Atlas and SB lathes, the one thing about both of those models is the spindle hole size.  I'm sure I can find lots of projects that exceed their capabilities that seems to be a common occurrence for me. So, that leads me to wanting something like a Heavy 10, but Fabrikator has thrown a monkey wrench in with the suggestion of the Grizzly.   It really looks like you get a lot for your money going that route as far as tooling goes.  It looks like there is no power crossfeed though. I guess there is some compromise on features at this price point for every lathe.  I really love the old iron though and I'm drawn to the Atlas and SB models.

So, here's my thought's. The 618 is too small for what I want.  I want an underdrive model for space considerations, power crossfeed and QC gears.  Power considerations being what they are I do have 30A single phase 220 in my garage, but it is shared with the welder and air compressor and is on the opposite wall from where the lathe will be located.  So, 110V would be preferable.  I know I can swap motors out on a lot of machines, although I'm not sure how hard it would be to find a compatible motor and keep costs down.  I'm leaning very hard towards the Atlas near Lexington.  

Questions about the Atlas tooling.

Is most of it proprietary? As in the design of the carriage and ways are what limit it from using other brands?
How much can I buy new vs. searching ebay/craigslist?
I assume anything that fits the spindle threads from any manufacturer would work?  As well as the tailstock? 


Then to throw everything I just said out the window I found this.

http://bham.craigslist.org/tls/4632037592.html

Just a little overwhelmed in this process since I'm learning so much more about it everyday.  You guys have been a great help though and are giving me a whole lot to think about.  I hope you can make some sense of what I just said I feel like I'm rambling or just trying to get all my thoughts out to make sense of it all.

Kevin


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## wa5cab (Sep 9, 2014)

Kevin,

It depends upon what you are calling "tooling".  Some people call anything that doesn't come on the bare bones lathe "tooling".  My definition is that virtually all tooling is expendable.  And if it isn't expendable (to the IRS), it's probably an accessory.  So with that definition, tooling is not proprietary.  For most lathes, most accessories are proprietary.  Exceptions would be mostly chucks and collets.  Generally, if it installs on the machine anywhere other than top of the compound slide or spindle nose, it's probably proprietary.  For any brand and size lathe.  That practice is generally universal, not just limited to Atlas.  Between Atlas, South Bend, Logan and Clausing (which are at least with the vintage (older than about 30 years) lathes all in the same class), virtually no accessory for one with fit any of the other three.

Aside from the Chicom machines, none of the lathes that have been mentioned in this discussion are still in production.  Although Clausing still supports both the Atlas and Clausing machines to some degree, if they still have any accessories in stock, it would be a fluke.  I bought the last Atlas 12" Follow Rest that they had early last year.  Everything else that I have inquired about has been out of stock and not going to be offered again.  They still have a lot of the later parts (but prices are likely to be current machine tool prices, not "vintage").  I don't know the situation with Logan.  The South Bend name is I've heard is still in use, but it's Chicom now.  The short answer, unless you stumble across something NOSB, is going to be used.  So eBay, Craigs List, pawn shops, flea markets and places like H-M.  

Yes, pretty much anything that fits the spindle nose, spindle taper, or tailstock taper is generic.



beech277 said:


> Questions about the Atlas tooling.
> 
> Is most of it proprietary? As in the design of the carriage and ways are what limit it from using other brands?
> 
> ...


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## John Hasler (Sep 9, 2014)

> wa5cab writes: Although Clausing still supports both the Atlas and Clausing machines to  some degree, if they still have any accessories in stock, it would be a  fluke.  I bought the last Atlas 12" Follow Rest that they had early  last year.  Everything else that I have inquired about has been out of  stock and not going to be offered again.  They still have a lot of the  later parts (but prices are likely to be current machine tool prices,  not "vintage").  I don't know the situation with Logan.



Logan Actuator appears to be having parts and accessories made (though I can't afford their prices).  They have a pretty extensive list at lathe.com.


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## beech277 (Sep 9, 2014)

Well the Atlas sold today before I could make it up there on Thursday.  So, I'm back to square one and cooling my jets as was mentioned earlier.  

I'm both glad and disappointed I didn't get it though.  As you all have made me keenly aware, I really need to learn a lot more before I go nuts and buy a lathe. Thank you for you help.

Kevin


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## wa5cab (Sep 10, 2014)

John,

Thanks.  I also moderate the Logan forum, and that question might come up some day.  It is unfortunate but understandable that parts made today for the old lathes are going to cost what parts made today cost.  Not related in any way to what the old lathes cost today.  Unfortunately, no company that wants to stay in business is going to make new parts today and sell them at a large loss just because hobbyists still like the old lathes but can't or won't pay current prices for parts.

Robert D.



John Hasler said:


> Logan Actuator appears to be having parts and accessories made (though I can't afford their prices).  They have a pretty extensive list at lathe.com.


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