# Lost ---



## British Steel (Apr 9, 2012)

Hi Bill,

What you want to do is perfectly feasible - but may involve a bit of "development" to get where you want to go!

First, unipolar vs bipolar - this is just about whether the coils are wired to carry current in one direction or both directions - if both directions, they'll be wired separately, unipolar can have a common "ground".

You'll need to measure the torque needed so you can choose a motor - putting a heavy facing cut on with a torque wrench on the crossfeed would do it, then factor in torque multiplication from the reduction between motor and crossfeed (see below) and double / treble it 

To get the control you want, you could just mount the stepper directly to the cross-slide screw, but at the expense of only having 200 steps / turn - better would be to have some reduction between motor and screw, even better would be reduction plus "microstepping" (a controller feature) - this only works with bipolar motors, as the coils need to be individually wired, but by varying the currents in the 2 coils it's possible to make part-steps, e.g. 4 or 8 (sometimes 16) micro-steps for each of the standard 200 steps/rev. - it's worth making the individual steps / microsteps a sensible increment, e.g. 1/10 or 1/25 of a thou", perhaps with toothed belt and suitable sprockets.

If you go for a ready-built controller all it needs (apart from a power supply, which can be as simple as a redundant PC supply or parts from a dead hifi amp) is a source of step and direction input pulses - the step pulses can be generated by a 1-chip timer circuit (google "555 timer astable"), direction from a suitable switch! Using a controller with standard step/direction inputs opens up the possibility of CNC at a later date, too - CNC software's free and can run on a relatively low-spec PC...

The CNCzone site has lots of info on steppers, controllers, breakout (PC) boards, software etc. (including home-brew versions), probably worth a look / signing up (free).

Dave H. (the other one)


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## 8ntsane (Apr 9, 2012)

http://www.kelinginc.net/

Should have enough infro to get yer head spinnin again


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## 8ntsane (Apr 9, 2012)

Sorry Bill
I should have directed you to pacific items , and not the whole mess of things.
Your only powering the crosslide, a stepper motor will do fine. Thats a small machine your installing it on, andgetting the proper size to do the job, should be pretty easy. I recommend you give them a call, and at least they will give you a recommendation on stepper motor, power supply, and hook up parts. Im not sure if your going to need the pulleys, and belt setup, and the coupler. Ill add another link for you, hope this doesnt give you a headache.
http://www.sdp-si.com/
http://www.lasermotion.com/servo.html
http://www.putnamengineering.com/
The last link, on the LH side scroll down to mount designs, this site has lots of good infro on the subject, just ignore the automated stuff, or you head might explode


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## Galileu (Apr 10, 2012)

Hi Bill,

I am puzzled by or choice of a stepper motor for this job; if you only want to power your cross slide and don't plan on going CNC wouldn't a geared DC motor be a much cheaper and easier solution? A DC motor can be driven by easy to find ESC control boards and the whole thing is simple to set up.

José


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## 8ntsane (Apr 10, 2012)

Hi Bill
Im not sure about the lathe you have, but steppers are , and can be mounted on the front side, or the rear side. Mounting to the rear side can make for a tidy setup. On some lathes it just makes more sense to mount on the back side, just incase you didnt think of it. 

Some need a extension on the end of the screw to reach far enough back to reach the stepper.
If you need any more links with that type of set up, I have a fair collection.


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## jumps4 (May 13, 2012)

*Re: Lost ---   this post is old but i thought i'd add to it*

on ebay look up stepper motor speed control like item number 330692980897 this will allow you to run one controller box like a gecko of similar 1 motor with a power supply  no pc required for this just set direction and speed and go
or buy a 2 axis set of motors and controllers and use two of these to operate the x and y axis
probably the lowest cost method normally include power supply 2 motors 2 controllers and a breakout board you dont need but can use everything will work like power feeds with no pc involved
steve


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## jumps4 (May 13, 2012)

*Re: Lost --- something else I forgot*

if your motors are big enough above say 360 then you can direct drive and by microstepping you multiply the 200 pulses per revolution by the microstep 200 is at full step in one revolution if you microstep at 1/2 step then you will get 400 pulses per revolution doubling your accuracy
 for example using 10 tpi to make it easy and it is direct drive then one inch = 200 steps x10 or .005 per step
at 1/2 step setting you double the accuracy to .0025 per stem ( 1/16 step is 16 x 200 per rev )
stepper motors loose torque the faster they run direct drive with a big enough motor will a better choice than a small motor with gearing to acheive torque due to the torque drop with higher rpms
 this setup goes from just a power feed to a cnc machine with just a printer cable and software such as mach3 or others by just plugging it into the pc and turning off the stepper motor speed controllers
the power supply is at a higher voltage that stated on the motor to up to 5 times voltage stated.
my nema34 1600 motors are 5.85volts 8 amps they are running on a 60 volt power supply


my opinion i'm no expert
I have built the systems for my mill lathe and 
I'm helping setup controllers on my friends plasma
If I can help please ask I'm happy to help anyone
steve


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## jumps4 (May 13, 2012)

*Re: Lost --- correction*

sorry my bad 
power supply voltage is up to 10 times motor voltage
typo 
steve


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## jumps4 (May 13, 2012)

*Re: Lost --- sorry again*

the math has a missing 0 
this make me look dumb but i was too tired i guess
at full step of 200 per revolution on a 10tpi screw the the movement is .0005 per step
at 1/2 step that is 400 per revolution, on a 10tpi screw that is .00025 per step of the motor
at 1/16 step it is 200 x 16 or 3200 x 10tpi screw will give you .00003125in per step
sorry i was tired
this is at direct drive, so at 1/2 step this meets the needs of most lathes and is using the stepper motor at its highest torque
steve


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## jumps4 (Jun 6, 2012)

hello bill
I was going back over some old posts and was wondering what you decided for your cross slide
steve


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 2, 2012)

I have mount issues to overcome because of a few mods I made. We will get there.

 "Billy G" :whistle:


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## 8ntsane (Oct 2, 2012)

Hi Bill

Just got me wondering what your doing with the stepper motor project? Ya never did say what you where doing with the idea.

Im going through the process of searching out steppers for my Sidney lathe now. I want to add metric threading to my machine. Still looking at the ELS from Automation Artisans, Putnam eng, or just go anther step farther and use mach3

Just wondering what your buildin


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 2, 2012)

Hi Paul:

   If you go to this link you will see "Mini Lathe X axis drive. A slightly larger drive of the same configuration is what I want to employ. Still a few bugs to be worked out.

"Billy G" 

http://www.putnamengineering.com/designs.shtml


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## 7HC (Oct 4, 2012)

Bill Gruby said:


> I read up on stepper motors. I guess I learned just enough to be dangerous. (not funny). I want to add a power cross feed to my Jet 9X20 lathe. So after reading and learningwhat little I did I went to flea bay and became totally lost on page one.
> 
> What do I need to accomplish my goal? Bipolar? Unipolar? Do I need the Drive unit or just a 12 volt power supply. What are the 6 wires needed fo on the 6 pole plugs. I've seen them with only 4.
> 
> ...



Interesting post Bill, though it does beg the question as to why you want to do it if you're not intending to eventually to go to full CNC.  
Are you just getting tired of winding the handle?  
If that's the case a more conventional DC (or A/C) motor might suit your purpose better.
Stepper motors need drivers to control them as well as a power supply.
I think you could do it without using a computer and software by connecting a handheld pendant to a driver board, but there are others here  who could advise you about that better than I can.

Good luck with the project, it's an interesting one.!


M


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 4, 2012)

WhitMach71 said:


> first of all you don't want any power cross feed on a lathe whatsoever. the next thing is that when dealing with crossfeed on a lathe is first of all what are you hearing? If a lathe makes alot of noise...what's the first thing you do?



Why would you not want power crossfeed on a lathe. The finish gained in a facing operation is over the top compared to cranking by hand. Your post makes no sense what-so-ever.



"Billy G"


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## Tony Wells (Oct 4, 2012)

He may not, but I sure do, as I suppose nearly everyone in the industry. Seems to be the case since lathes normally come equipped with it.


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## swatson144 (Oct 4, 2012)

I seldom use my 9x20 because it lacks power cross feed, I use the 12x36 mostly because it came with it. Heck I'd even love to have power compound feed again!

I'll be looking forward to you figuring this out so I can blatantly copy it.

Steve


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## jumps4 (Oct 4, 2012)

I'm starting my 9x20 cnc conversion and working on an answer myself bill i'll let you know  what i decide on.
i would really like to move everything to the back of the lathe but i'm not sure yet i just took it apart yesterday.
my leadscrew and nut for the x axis are still in perfect condition so i may be reusing them somehow i am not going with ballscrews on this conversion because i can compensate for backlash and the fact that spring in turning different materials has to be compensated for anyway.
steve


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## Tony Wells (Oct 4, 2012)

Steve, I gotta tell you. I admire your ambition with your machine projects. You've obviously done considerable research on preparation for them, and your execution has gone pretty well. If I thought a smaller mill would suit my needs, I'd just about consider copying yours. And it's not far outside my work envelope. Maybe this winter if things slow down I may consider finding a worn out machining center and doing a rebuild/retrofit. You've given me some motivation. I do just fine manually, but maybe I'm seeing myself getting slower and it would be nice to have some automation.


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## jumps4 (Oct 4, 2012)

thank you tony
i have to go cnc my health keeps me from standing long periods in one place, so it's cnc working from a tall stool or a new hobby
steve


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 4, 2012)

I thought of going to the back Steve and making a new leadscrew for the cross slide and connecting the stepper motor directly to the leadscrew. I don't remember why I dismissed it. Guess I'll take another look. Thanx.

 "Billy G"


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## jumps4 (Oct 4, 2012)

you are probably going to want to keep the handle, I'm probably going to do away with it. i'm thinking of turning the end down and adding a longer shaft to the existing screw to come out the back but it requires milling or drilling out the lower casting to exit the rear, the passage does not go all the way through. 
steve


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 4, 2012)

Now I remember, I want to add a taper attachment also. The stepper motor would have been in the way. Yes the handle will be retained. 

 "Billy G"


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## jumps4 (Oct 4, 2012)

i'm going to the shop to work on mine today i'll let you know what i figure out on mine since it's apart.
the idea i have will be able to still have the handle.
steve


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 4, 2012)

Me to Steve. I just got a helluva good idea. It will go on the back.

 "Billy G" hew:


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## jumps4 (Oct 4, 2012)

bill ( or anyone ) is there any reason i cannot turn the slide around and put it in with the gib screws facing forward?
steve


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 4, 2012)

I see where you are going with this, You wish to drive from the handle end, correct? If that is the case no you are good to go. Everything should be OK.

 "Billy G"  :thumbsup:


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## jumps4 (Oct 4, 2012)

ok I'm going to make a bracket with an inch longer travel. i'm not going to use a thrust bearing the motor is zero backlash and i'm going to use a ridgid coupling since the other end of the screw is free. i guess i will see. i can test run it off the lathe.
steve


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## jumps4 (Oct 4, 2012)

here is a quick mock up of what i'm thinking.
steve


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 4, 2012)

You think like me, out of the envelope. What size is the stepper motor.

 "Billy G"


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## jumps4 (Oct 4, 2012)

it is an 880 oz/in nema 34
steve


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 4, 2012)

WOW, I was only going to use a Nema 23 / 550 in, oz, Am I maybe thinking too small???

"Billy G" :thinking:


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## jumps4 (Oct 4, 2012)

no not at all bill.
 i do overkill i hate missed steps and i run tight gibs if i have something wrong i want to be sure it isnt the motor did not get to where it should be. it all stems from my sherline having motors that work fine 99% of the time and the one precent destroys your part. your not going cnc and even if you were 550 is more than enough.
steve


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## 8ntsane (Oct 5, 2012)

Hi Bill

Looks like Steve is going for a rear mount stepper motor, unless my eyes are seeing to blurry :whistle:

I would have a good look at the possible rear mount up. I dont know if its possible on your machine, but on many, including mine, its just puts the stepper out of your way. Direct drive looks like a easyer method, but have a look at that list of links I sent you at the start of this thread. A solid coupler, or universal joint is not recommended.
Apparently transmits to much vibration.

There is proper couplers for mounting steppers in direct drive. Elastomar coupler come to mind, but there is several. Excess vibration could cause a variety of problems, Im sure Putnam and others  have mentioned this.

Depending on your wants or needs for the taper attachment, if you wanted a 1 to 1 drive, you could still do this with pulleys, and a belt. You could set up for pulleys, and if needed go to 2 to1, or even 3 to1 depending on needs. Clearance permiting. I dont know how much drag would be turning a crosslide handle with a stepper still attached, but shut off of course. But if you use pulleys and belt setup, you could easly remove the belt when not needed. Just a thought :thinking:

The Nema 23 steppers, from what I inderstand are available in single stack, double stack, and triple stack.
This is on putnams site, and maybe worth looking over, or giving them a call to inquire about it.

Speaking of taper attachment, you could also look at the possibilitys of adding a second stepper to the lead screw z axis and doing a conversion to Electronic lead screw. Such as Putnams auto turn controler,ELS, or Mach3. Steve is probably the guy to talk to on that 
that works out around the same cost.
Then a mechanical taper attachment wouldnt be needed.

Steve is mounting a nema 34 stepper on his machine, and looks like he wants to have more than enough power. :lmao: Nothing wrong with that! Better to have a little more, than not enough for his setup.

Just some thoughts

This stepper motor stuff can get confusing for sure. I gave all the infro on my machine, and was recommended
the 1200 oz/in  nema 34 as min, and the 1800 oz/in as perfered to turn my leadscrew on my machine. Im still waiting for a verdict on the stepper size for the crosslide, but they figure a nema 34 as well.

Boys and there toys,,,it never ends :rofl::whistle:


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## 7HC (Oct 5, 2012)

Just a thought Bill, but if what you want is relief from the tedium of winding the cross-slide handle, couldn't you fashion an attachment to fit the chuck of a cordless drill that would engage the cross-slide handle?
That would give you the F-N-R and variable speed you require in the simplest manner.


M


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## swatson144 (Oct 5, 2012)

7HC said:


> Just a thought Bill, but if what you want is relief from the tedium of winding the cross-slide handle, couldn't you fashion an attachment to fit the chuck of a cordless drill that would engage the cross-slide handle?
> That would give you the F-N-R and variable speed you require in the simplest manner.
> 
> 
> M



I did  that on the mill/drill and found that slow speed feed isn't very practical. It is too easy to stall. Works great for traversing the table though. 

Steve


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## jumps4 (Oct 6, 2012)

bill
what is the voltage and amps for your stepper motor in the specs. or the part number and manufacturer
there is a variable/reversable pulse generator on ebay that may run your motor pretty cheap all it requires is a power supply no pc.
steve

this part takes the place of the pc
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stepper-mot...000?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a22e73078

this to drive the motor if your under 3 amp
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Router-...502?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a753b3096

and a power supply for 3 amp min.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-5A-DC-B...577?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccaa0d499


if your amps are higher than 3 amp the cost goes up, to go from here to cnc for this axis you only replace the first part with a breakout board and pc everything else can be used
I'm not saying to buy these i'm just giving an idea of minimum cost to run the motor if under 3 amp


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 6, 2012)

Steve;

 Here is the motor. I didn't buy it yet. Tell me what you think?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160892732013?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


 "Billy G"  )


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## jumps4 (Oct 6, 2012)

the motor is fine if it is what is listed, but if you go to the add and click more details under the motor description it show a totally different motor.and by buying this a piece at a time your going to spend almost what a total cnc conversion kit less computer would cost. the power supply and driver i showed you wont drive 5amps.
just an example http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Axis-Nema...100?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5d4cc064
 your motor $65.00
power supply $50.00
driver $50.00
pulse generator $12.50
just the parts basic total and its not cnc is 177.50 it is not really worth it
i'd look into a gearmotor and dc controller if your not going cnc
steve


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## 8ntsane (Oct 6, 2012)

Bill

If your just trying to power your crosslide, could you not use a power feed that is commonly used on milling machines X-Y-Z axis ? 

Might sound crazy, and probably is :nuts:, but they have plenty of torque, varable speed, F-N-R and cheap on evil bay. And just plug and play, other than finding a way to mount it, either front , or back.

Down side, Bigger and more weight than a stepper, also its large size. But hell, just a thought.:thinking:


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