# Wood saw conversion



## aliva (Aug 30, 2020)

A friend of mine gave me his wood bandsaw, so why not convert it cut metal.
With appropriate  sheaves I got the SFPM down to 237, which should be adequate. I also added a cleaning brush for the blade as I'm told when cutting metal the chips will destroy the wheel tire in seconds. Still have to build a guard around the sheaves  and order a blade. I'm thinking variable TPI 10-14.


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## benmychree (Aug 30, 2020)

What are you planning to cut?  A cutting speed of 237 would be way too fast for ferrous metals.  The brush is really not required, most vertical bandsaws do not use them, more used on horizontal saws with coolant.


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## aliva (Aug 30, 2020)

Here's Starrett's recommended SFPM for metal


			https://www.starrett.com/docs/other-downloadable-resources/band-saw-blade-reference-guide
		

I'm in the ball park
Concerning the brush this was a recommendation from a dealer, so for 5$ why the hell not.


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## gonzo (Aug 30, 2020)

I never looked, but it seems that vertical metal cutting band saws also use the same tires without trouble.


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## benmychree (Aug 30, 2020)

You are (in the ballpark) if you use bimetal blades, that is blades with carbon steel body and HSS teeth; I have never used these, instead have used carbon steel blades, which are much cheaper.  The Starrett info is a very good resource.


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## benmychree (Aug 30, 2020)

gonzo said:


> I never looked, but it seems that vertical metal cutting band saws also use the same tires without trouble.


Yes, I have seen vertical bandsaws, particularly a WW-2 era DoAll that had no brushes and likely the same tires that it came with new, and I bought a new 20" Powermatic saw that did not have any about 35 years ago, that is still on the original tires.


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## coffmajt (Aug 30, 2020)

I also think the 200 + sfpm is about 2 times too fast for most steels unless your saw has perfect tension and alignment.  One thing to consider is that most metal cutting saws use a thicker blade under considerably more tension than a wood cutting saw can develop.  Soft steel yes, alloys no == Jack


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## SuperTiger (Nov 7, 2020)

Nice work Aliva


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## NortonDommi (Nov 7, 2020)

Man you have nice friends!  Any spares? Nice job on the saw.  This may sound funny and it has cropped up here before but personally I have never seen a metal bandsaw with tyres. Is this an American thing? Every wood bandsaw I have seen outside of the big sawmill ones has tyres but not the metal ones.


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## Eddyde (Nov 8, 2020)

Curious, what RPM Motor do you have, what are the diameters of the sheaves? When I researched and built my bandsaw conversion I was unable to get anywhere near that low a speed without a gear reducer as well. I also have a VFD on it to get down to about 50 SFPM








						Bandsaw speed reducer build.
					

Hi All, I recently picked up a nice mid 50's vintage, Boice Crane, 14" vertical bandsaw.  It has a three phase motor so I figured I'd simply throw a VFD on it and be able to get down to metal cutting speeds, wrong!... The motor is rated at 1150 rpm and running it at 15hz only gets the blade down...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## NC Rick (Nov 8, 2020)

Related question... I assume the Starrett chart is for using coolant? I cut dry only.  What effect on cutting with a Pro-Die bi-metal blade?  I have a Grizzly wood metal that only goes down to 100 ft/min.  I have cut 4140 but no stainless steel.


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## aliva (Nov 8, 2020)

I've cut 316L SS and 304 SS cast CRS HRS and aluminum all without coolant, so far no issues.
I'm sure coolant wouldn't be a bad thing. I've seen more horizontal saws with coolant than vertical. To add coolant to my saw would too involved for ant possible  gain in my opinion. Building a sump, drip tray, pump, etc. Would be a pain.


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## C-Bag (Nov 9, 2020)

aliva said:


> I've cut 316L SS and 304 SS cast CRS HRS and aluminum all without coolant, so far no issues.
> I'm sure coolant wouldn't be a bad thing. I've seen more horizontal saws with coolant than vertical. To add coolant to my saw would too involved for ant possible  gain in my opinion. Building a sump, drip tray, pump, etc. Would be a pain.


Not to mention with the rubber tires the blade will start to slip. Ask me how I know 

my converted vertical 14” is running @ 120fpm and so far has cut anything I’ve put on it. I went with that speed after looking through many forums. The only reason I changed my tires was because they were shredded from the dummies before me over tensioning the blade and didn’t know what they were doing as far as tracking.


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## Peyton Price 17 (Nov 10, 2020)

is that a 16 inch delta band saw? my friends dad has one that looks like that but is still for cutting wood. he wants $50 for it. i was thinking of doing the same conversion too.


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## ThinWoodsman (Nov 10, 2020)

I still haven't figured out a way to get my 9" Duro bandsaw down to 100 SFM. 
I found a nice 1425 rpm motor, but even with the smallest and largest possible pulley I'm still in the 300s.

Still waffling over VFD vs gearbox. Got the more powerful (1 HP instead of 3/4) motor in case I go the VFD route.

Just got too many other projects to attend to.


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## NC Rick (Nov 10, 2020)

A gearbox has got to be the answer, even a gear reduction motor.

my grizzly uses a VFD and a 2hp inverter duty motor along with a double reduction belt drive.  I would really like the speed to go down to 60, not 100.  I use the fast, slow speed range to cut wood without switching the pulley (I seldom cut wood) and at 500 ft it cuts okay.  Even some aluminum cuts with an open band works good at the higher speeds.

I have fixed brushes and I like the brushes to reduce the chip transfer onto the tires.


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## C-Bag (Nov 10, 2020)

It depends on what you have in your junk box. It was far cheaper for me to go double reduction with belts than a gearbox. I used swamp cooler pulleys and they were super cheap.


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## NC Rick (Nov 10, 2020)

aliva said:


> A friend of mine gave me his wood bandsaw, so why not convert it cut metal.
> With appropriate  sheaves I got the SFPM down to 237, which should be adequate. I also added a cleaning brush for the blade as I'm told when cutting metal the chips will destroy the wheel tire in seconds. Still have to build a guard around the sheaves  and order a blade. I'm thinking variable TPI 10-14.
> View attachment 335295
> 
> ...


while I am throwing out ideas based on my own thinking, I want to commend your excellent conversion and workmanship.


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## NC Rick (Nov 10, 2020)

C-Bag said:


> It depends on what you have in your junk box. It was far cheaper for me to go double reduction with belts than a gearbox. I used swamp cooler pulleys and they were super cheap.


I was thinking about optimal, not cost


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## C-Bag (Nov 10, 2020)

optimal cost of course!


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## Ken from ontario (Nov 10, 2020)

*aliva, that is one of the cleanest, neatest conversion I've seen, well done.

Eddyde, the same goes for you  with your conversion, your  vintage Boice Crane is well preserved and the conversion to metal cutting is well thought out , I would love to have that saw in my shop ,who wouldn't.*


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## C-Bag (Nov 10, 2020)

We all think differently and value different things, I get that. But personally I’m glad I didn’t have a gearbox in my junk pile. I used to. But for me it added complication and possible service complications along with added cost. I could see if it was something cool like a multi speed box, but I didn’t need that. I don’t cut much wood. Belts are simple, easy to replace(in my case super easy) and are cost effective. My setup is even auto tensioning as the weight of the motor is used to tension the belt because the motor mount was off an old table saw.
Speaking of cost effective, I also repurpose my used Sonicare toothbrush heads to clean the swarf from the tires on the bandsaw and the leadscrew of my lathe. They have these crazy strong magnets in the base that make them stay right where needed.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 10, 2020)

C-Bag said:


> We all think differently and value different things, I get that. But personally I’m glad I didn’t have a gearbox in my junk pile. I used to. But for me it added complication and possible service complications along with added cost. I could see if it was something cool like a multi speed box, but I didn’t need that. I don’t cut much wood. Belts are simple, easy to replace(in my case super easy) and are cost effective. My setup is even auto tensioning as the weight of the motor is used to tension the belt because the motor mount was off an old table saw.
> Speaking of cost effective, I also repurpose my used Sonicare toothbrush heads to clean the swarf from the tires on the bandsaw and the leadscrew of my lathe. They have these crazy strong magnets in the base that make them stay right where needed.



I use the same brush. Definitely borrowing this idea!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NC Rick (Nov 10, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I use the same brush. Definitely borrowing this idea!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Man! Keep the vibration feature in the saw


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## NC Rick (Nov 10, 2020)

I see the gear box as a compact way to get a 10 or 20x reduction in motor speed.  I always wanted a powermatic 143 and a super clean one showed up on Craig's list just a year after I purchased my Grizzly out of frustration.  I do like my grizzly saw but the gearbox of the 143 is a real nice feature to have.  I was also thinking that a surplus woods gearbox may not be so expensive.  I'm not knocking the pulley system but looking at my own situation, I can't find a practical way to get a speed range down to 40-60 fpm which I think would be my ideal lowest speed.  Again, thinking optimal but I settled for 100 fpm and normally use 180fpm.  
I am new here and sometimes think I get misunderstood as being overly critical.  I enjoy throwing ideas out there and hearing others take or approach.  I hope my ideas may spark someone else to have an idea, think a new way or prove me wrong which is my favorite thing. I have a lot of practice being wrong. I am sometimes right.


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## ThinWoodsman (Nov 10, 2020)

C-Bag said:


> But for me it added complication and possible service complications along with added cost.



Agreed. The gearbox adds a bit of complexity (in terms of number-and-size of shafts), takes up a bit of space, and is certainly not cheap. I'm kinda leaning towards a 1" to 3-4-5" step pulley combo, with a VFD on the motor to slow it down from there. Haven't really spent much time on it, as this project has already become a much greater time investment than expected.


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## NC Rick (Nov 10, 2020)

aliva said:


> A friend of mine gave me his wood bandsaw, so why not convert it cut metal.
> With appropriate  sheaves I got the SFPM down to 237, which should be adequate. I also added a cleaning brush for the blade as I'm told when cutting metal the chips will destroy the wheel tire in seconds. Still have to build a guard around the sheaves  and order a blade. I'm thinking variable TPI 10-14.
> View attachment 335295
> 
> ...


I'm wondering if you know what motor rpm would be needed to achieve 100fpm at the blade?  I don't know my ratios and wonder why the VFD on my Grizzly can't be set slower.  I am sure there is a reason.  I'm thinking about making a call to Starrett regarding optimal speeds in dry cutting.  Most pro level saws seem to go down to 40fpm or less. Most professional saws I have seen are also older.  If I am covered with my 100 fpm I might quite worrying  

I do run my horizontal saw at 80fpm when cutting O1 which I do often.  I *think* some of this conversation will come down to blade life.  I'll admit to wrecking most because I was too lazy to change the pitch and the last few years of having two saws had quadrupled my blade life just because the two saws are setup differently.


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## C-Bag (Nov 10, 2020)

NC Rick said:


> I see the gear box as a compact way to get a 10 or 20x reduction in motor speed.  I always wanted a powermatic 143 and a super clean one showed up on Craig's list just a year after I purchased my Grizzly out of frustration.  I do like my grizzly saw but the gearbox of the 143 is a real nice feature to have.  I was also thinking that a surplus woods gearbox may not be so expensive.  I'm not knocking the pulley system but looking at my own situation, I can't find a practical way to get a speed range down to 40-60 fpm which I think would be my ideal lowest speed.  Again, thinking optimal but I settled for 100 fpm and normally use 180fpm.
> I am new here and sometimes think I get misunderstood as being overly critical.  I enjoy throwing ideas out there and hearing others take or approach.  I hope my ideas may spark someone else to have an idea, think a new way or prove me wrong which is my favorite thing. I have a lot of practice being wrong. I am sometimes right.


Believe me Rick, I’m coming from exactly the same place. A lot of forums hyjacking is taboo, and I’m not trying to push my solution. As a musician this is “jamming” to me. I’m not more right-er, just throwing my solution out there. And luckily everybody feels ok to do that too. I doubly suffer from having done this maybe too much, but this site is so vast not everybody can see everything. And it’s obvious everybody did what they did because it was what they wanted. As most of my hodgepodg’s are I didn’t think it would work but I think it’s been 5yrs since I modded mine and it is my most used machine. With purchase of the old HF saw and the bits and bobs I‘m under $400 even buying the fancy ball bearing guide heads which are almost 1/2 the upgrade. I can’t even fathom being without it because it’s so central to my work.


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## NC Rick (Nov 10, 2020)

C-Bag said:


> Believe me Rick, I’m coming from exactly the same place. A lot of forums hyjacking is taboo, and I’m not trying to push my solution. As a musician this is “jamming” to me. I’m not more right-er, just throwing my solution out there. And luckily everybody feels ok to do that too. I doubly suffer from having done this maybe too much, but this site is so vast not everybody can see everything. And it’s obvious everybody did what they did because it was what they wanted. As most of my hodgepodg’s are I didn’t think it would work but I think it’s been 5yrs since I modded mine and it is my most used machine. With purchase of the old HF saw and the bits and bobs I‘m under $400 even buying the fancy ball bearing guide heads which are almost 1/2 the upgrade. I can’t even fathom being without it because it’s so central to my work.


I can see where the only thing better than one of those would be two of them.  We have been shocked here in our shop how fantastically useful the vertical saw is.  I have had the ubiquitous horizontal 4x6 Taiwanese saw since 1989 and also have a Milwaukee porta-band but the vertical saw is a game changer for my small shop.  It eats plastic, aluminum, steel, wood and even occasional cardboard .  The well made old wood band saws need to be pried from the fingers of woodchucks everywhere and converted to real tools


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## ericc (Nov 10, 2020)

Those large gearboxes are expensive, even used.  I bought a large 11:1 gearbox and the project never materialized, so I end up tripping over it all the time.  I have tried to sell it locally, but the use is so specific that almost nobody wants one.  And, it is heavy.


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## C-Bag (Nov 10, 2020)

NC Rick said:


> I can see where the only thing better than one of those would be two of them.  We have been shocked here in our shop how fantastically useful the vertical saw is.  I have had the ubiquitous horizontal 4x6 Taiwanese saw since 1989 and also have a Milwaukee porta-band but the vertical saw is a game changer for my small shop.  It eats plastic, aluminum, steel, wood and even occasional cardboard .  The well made old wood band saws need to be pried from the fingers of woodchucks everywhere and converted to real tools


Lol, and ditto on having a 4x6 since 1980. It had always been handy as a shirt pocket but doing small stuff and using it vertical was not great. My FIL had a cool ancient 12” cast iron vertical in the shop and I loved that thing but could never find one. I kept seeing HF verticals for cheap but were all for wood. In the forums old hands who’s main job was to use old DoAll‘s said 100fpm was the magic fpm so I got close, and they were right. I see no need for slower as blades literally last forever. The thing that kills them is cutting sheetmetal 

Besides gearing it down the other most useful improvement is putting an air powered sled on it. Putting a 2”x4” block of 1018 on it, set the air pressure for the cut and let ‘er go, priceless.


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## NC Rick (Nov 10, 2020)

C-Bag said:


> Lol, and ditto on having a 4x6 since 1980. It had always been handy as a shirt pocket but doing small stuff and using it vertical was not great. My FIL had a cool ancient 12” cast iron vertical in the shop and I loved that thing but could never find one. I kept seeing HF verticals for cheap but were all for wood. In the forums old hands who’s main job was to use old DoAll‘s said 100fpm was the magic fpm so I got close, and they were right. I see no need for slower as blades literally last forever. The thing that kills them is cutting sheetmetal
> 
> Besides gearing it down the other most useful improvement is putting an air powered sled on it. Putting a 2”x4” block of 1018 on it, set the air pressure for the cut and let ‘er go, priceless.


My buddy in the "know" mentioned  some difficult to saw materials , one I remember him telling me about was hardened aluminum bronze and as it happens, I have cut some on my saw, likely not even using the slowest speed because how hard can bronze be to machine? Right?  Well I did it successfully but man that is surprisingly tough stuff.  I only had to cut a few inches of it.  +5 on sheet metal and around here on real thin wall tubes which strip teeth like there is no tomorrow!

I would be very interested in your power feed system!  I thought of replicating a weight and chain arrangement but I do have a couple air cylinders in the scrap bin...

I did put a call in to Starrett and was given a number for a saw rep who is local to us.  I left a message and am holding my breath!


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 10, 2020)

you might as well call Aluminum Bronze- Yellow Steel


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## ThinWoodsman (Nov 10, 2020)

While we're extolling the virtues of those 4x6s, how do they fare in humid/high-rust environments?

I've occasionally considered getting one and leaving it in the barn, outside the shop - AKA the area where metal rusts and everything else gets mold.


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## NC Rick (Nov 10, 2020)

ThinWoodsman said:


> While we're extolling the virtues of those 4x6s, how do they fare in humid/high-rust environments?
> 
> I've occasionally considered getting one and leaving it in the barn, outside the shop - AKA the area where metal rusts and everything else gets mold.


mine is a Taiwanese Delta and the castings are a little nicer than some I have seen.  All the castings are pretty thick so I think you could get your money's worth before it rotted away.  The sheet metal stands, "forgetaboutit".  They are cheap used or on sale.  Everyone should have one.


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## C-Bag (Nov 10, 2020)

ThinWoodsman said:


> While we're extolling the virtues of those 4x6s, how do they fare in humid/high-rust environments?
> 
> I've occasionally considered getting one and leaving it in the barn, outside the shop - AKA the area where metal rusts and everything else gets mold.


The last 12yrs I’ve been in 1mi away from the sea, so yeah, it’s very high rust. Like Rick said, mine has been out in the garage and for 10yrs and it was in my FIL’s shop that used to be a hot house and the chemicals in there would eat stainless  The 4x6 is all cast iron. Mines 40yrs old and looks it, but it keeps on keeping on. I think this fact is why I’m not that impressed with RF’s replacement. It’s sheet metal and 4x’s the cost. Is it perfect no, does it have shortcomings, yes. Mine is a HF, made in Taiwan. Think it was $159 in ‘80.


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