# Help Identifying A Machine.



## Mattm23 (Apr 19, 2016)

Hey guys, I'm still searching for my 1st machine and I came across a craigslist listing that I could use some help with. The machine seems to be in pretty rough condition, the seller doesn't have a ton of knowledge about the machine and the pictures they provided aren't great. Any help/info you could provide is appreciated. 
Thanks,
Matt

https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/tls/5523832983.html


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## brino (Apr 19, 2016)

Hi Matt,

There are other people here that know the different models better than I do.

Here's what I see:
-it definitely does have some rust, but perhaps only surface rust, don't be too scared away by that
-it does NOT have a quick-change gear box, so it should have a pile/box of gears to provide the various cutting feeds. If the gears are not included that should lower the price.
-if you contact the seller tell him/her that there should be an id plate on the gear cover at the left end, that info would be very useful, also a serial number will be stamped into the flat section of the ways at the right-front. With those you can learn a whole bunch about it (mfg date, weight, capacity, etc.)
-it does have the overhead counter-shaft which is good, but will need a replacement belt
-you would probably want to add a new tool-post
-be sure to lube it before you turn it on for a look/listen
-it has a 3-jaw chuck installed, ask about a 4-jaw chuck, faceplate, centres, etc.

That's it for my initial peek, I'll post back if I think of anything more.

Good Luck!
-brino


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## TommyD (Apr 19, 2016)

Looks pretty rough.

That is quite a large chunk of iron there, do you have the means to move it? 

Does it work?


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## dlane (Apr 19, 2016)

Looks like a project  if you get it.


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## chips&more (Apr 19, 2016)

I’m sorry everybody, but every time I see an old flat belt drive with no quick change, I RUN. Spend your money on something that is newer. It may not even be more money. Probably the same kinda weight. But let’s try and get one with a quick change, Timken bearings, enclosed headstock, AND? You only live once.


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## FOMOGO (Apr 19, 2016)

Lot of good comments above. I'm kind of an old machine junky, so for $500 I would probably be all over it after a good look. I'm thinking talk down the price some and if it's not bad clean it up and run it, or I bet you could part it out for 2-3 times what you pay for it and apply that to the purchase of a nicer machine. Then again, I  have a habit of taking the road less traveled (read hard road). One thing to remember, there is always another machine on down the line. Mike


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## Mattm23 (Apr 19, 2016)

Thanks for the wise words guys.

Thanks Brino, my thoughts exactly.

Tommy, I have a trailer and can borrow equipment to load it. It definitely wouldn't be easy though. I'm not sure if it runs, my main concern was to try to learn a little about the machine before checking it out.

Dlane, you're not kidding.

Chips, I know what you mean (especially something this size) but I'm just trying to broaden my search and I don't want write a machine off just because of it's size or age.

Mike, I like the way you think and if I had some more.... well really any experience moving and restoring machines I would probably take that route.

The search continues....


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## Dr Stan (Apr 19, 2016)

chips&more said:


> I’m sorry everybody, but every time I see an old flat belt drive with no quick change, I RUN. Spend your money on something that is newer. It may not even be more money. Probably the same kinda weight. But let’s try and get one with a quick change, Timken bearings, enclosed headstock, AND? You only live once.



I cannot agree more.  I learned on a SB at the Navy's Machinery Repairman school and have owned both a 14 1/2" and a 9" SB.  However neither of them were anywhere close to my Logan 14X30.  Sure it cost more but then all I had to do was build a RPC and it was ready to rock & roll.  The SB's, especially the 9", needed constant repair.


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## David VanNorman (Apr 20, 2016)

I wouldn't want to give too much for it . If it in a hard place to get to you might want to pass on it.


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## NEPA LEW (Apr 20, 2016)

I have a 15" South Bend lathe that this looks identical to. Mine has a serial number of 24809 built Jan. 1922. Mine was also a rust bucket and with WD40 - Sotch Brite and elbow grease it cleaned up quite well. Polished the hand wheels and gave it a black paint job like original. I need to get a camera and get you guys some photos. Noticed a thread dial, that alone is worth about $200 alone. It weighs about 1300 - 1500 lbs. Ask if the change gears are with it. I think there are 11 gears not counting the ones on the machine. The gears needed are listed on the threading plack, and they are very simple to change for a desired thread. Notice the over head drive. If you're going to move it remove the overhead drive as this machine is quite top heavy. Search Ebay for a flat belt supplier, some make custom belts. I put a CXA tool post and it made a great difference. 
Good Luck


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## NEPA LEW (Apr 20, 2016)

Reminder. I forgot to mention to look at the back gears and bull gear for broken teeth. Also look at the half nuts see how bad they are worn. Mine are about half worn but still makes a perfect thread.


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## Mattm23 (Apr 20, 2016)

Thanks Nepa, good info.


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## Silverbullet (Apr 20, 2016)

Theres  a better deal in New Egypt NJ, a mans got a 14" lathe oldie but goodie with quick change it has the taper attachment too. he wants $675 . I'd buy it in a heart beat but I dont have the room ,plus he's willing to deliver up to certain distance I guess.


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## Dr Stan (Apr 20, 2016)

Ditto on the bull & back gears.  One can purchase the material and the connecting hardware and fab your own with materials and grippers from McMaster-Carr.  I've also bought leather from Tandy and riveted and/or laced them together as I did for my 9" SB.

There's also a SB in Somerville.  http://cnj.craigslist.org/tls/5481141695.html  from the pics I cannot tell if it is a QC or not.  I also found a Sheldon http://cnj.craigslist.org/tls/5459180421.html It appears to have a QC gear box and also has a collet closure system.  

There are several more in central NJ including a very nice looking Rockwell.  More $, but a superior machine.


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## Mattm23 (Apr 20, 2016)

Sounds interesting Silverbullet, you have a link?

Thanks Dr, both of those SB's look a little more manageable with the shorter distance between centers.


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## Dr Stan (Apr 21, 2016)

Here's an EMCO (no NOT Enco) 3 in 1 machine.  http://newjersey.craigslist.org/tls/5515656945.html

I've visited the EMCO manufacturing facility in Austria and can assure you everything that goes out the door is top shelf.


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## Silverbullet (Apr 21, 2016)

I'm only twelve miles from Philly and I have a belt lacer and the fingers to make the belts. I'm pretty sure you'll find that machine is a south bend or hendey . if you want to join some new belts send me a pm or contact me here.


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## Mattm23 (Apr 21, 2016)

Man, that looks like a nice machine. As 3 in 1's go, that seem near top of the line. I like that the milling head is high and far away from the headstock, I think I remember Grizzly selling a similar machine. Sadly, it's way out of my price range. Thanks for the link though.


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## Mattm23 (Apr 21, 2016)

Wow, that's really nice of you Silver. Good to know I have someone local to ask for advice and is willing to help a noob like myself. I will be sure to take you up on your offer if I end up getting a machine that needs new belts.


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## Dr Stan (Apr 21, 2016)

Mattm23 said:


> Man, that looks like a nice machine. As 3 in 1's go, that seem near top of the line. I like that the milling head is high and far away from the headstock, I think I remember Grizzly selling a similar machine. Sadly, it's way out of my price range. Thanks for the link though.



That is the top of the line for that type.  All the others are mere shadows of the EMCO built machines.


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## scoopydo (Apr 21, 2016)

NEPA LEW said:


> I have a 15" South Bend lathe that this looks identical to. Mine has a serial number of 24809 built Jan. 1922. Mine was also a rust bucket and with WD40 - Sotch Brite and elbow grease it cleaned up quite well. Polished the hand wheels and gave it a black paint job like original. I need to get a camera and get you guys some photos. Noticed a thread dial, that alone is worth about $200 alone. It weighs about 1300 - 1500 lbs. Ask if the change gears are with it. I think there are 11 gears not counting the ones on the machine. The gears needed are listed on the threading plack, and they are very simple to change for a desired thread. Notice the over head drive. If you're going to move it remove the overhead drive as this machine is quite top heavy. Search Ebay for a flat belt supplier, some make custom belts. I put a CXA tool post and it made a great difference.
> Good Luck



I also have a 15" but mine is 1917 serial #13480 and it also looks identical to the one pictured in the add. Mine isn't rusty or worn but has a 100 years of grease, oil and embedded dirt. If it is half as nice as it looks you'll love it. It's big enough to do fairly large and heavy work but small enough not to be a real space hog. Nice find!
George


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## Mattm23 (Apr 21, 2016)

Well bad news guys, the seller wasn't willing to play ball. She pretty much hung up on me when I tried to negotiate a lower price than what she had listed it for, and now the listing has been deleted. I don't know if someone else bought it or what. I've been doing a lot of thinking and searching and I pretty sure I'm going to get a Rockwell 10. I just really like the manufacturer and the features they have. I need a full featured machine with a decent swing and the Rockwells seem to fit my needs and skill level (aka noob). I did however learn a lot about the 3 in 1 machines from you guys and I appreciate the advice, this community really knows how to make a new guy feel welcome. Who knows, maybe I'll get a 3 in 1 down the line. If anyone sees any good deals out there, be sure to let me know.

Thanks again
Matt


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## Dr Stan (Apr 21, 2016)

Like the SB's the Rockwell's were used quite frequently in school shops.  High School, vo-tech's, and higher education.  Keep an eye on the ways next to the headstock.  Wear can be an issue, but the primary problems will be scars from dropped chucks & forgotten chuck keys hitting the ways when started.  I've run and maintained both brands of machines and IMHO the Rockwell is much closer to an industrial machine than the SB.  Parts for the Rockwell's will not be as easy to locate so expect to make and/or repair what you need.


BTW, one of the first things, if not the very first thing is to make chuck boards.  I have custom fitted individual boards for each chuck.  They not only protect the ways, but make it much easier to change workholding devices.


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## Mattm23 (Apr 21, 2016)

Good advice Dr.


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## Mattm23 (Apr 22, 2016)

Mattm23 said:


> Well bad news guys, the seller wasn't willing to play ball. She pretty much hung up on me when I tried to negotiate a lower price than what she had listed it for, and now the listing has been deleted. I don't know if someone else bought it or what. I've been doing a lot of thinking and searching and I pretty sure I'm going to get a Rockwell 10. I just really like the manufacturer and the features they have. I need a full featured machine with a decent swing and the Rockwells seem to fit my needs and skill level (aka noob). I did however learn a lot about the 3 in 1 machines from you guys and I appreciate the advice, this community really knows how to make a new guy feel welcome. Who knows, maybe I'll get a 3 in 1 down the line. If anyone sees any good deals out there, be sure to let me know.
> 
> Thanks again
> Matt



Haha, I posted this in the wrong thread. It's hard to keep track when you have multiple threads with similar titles. I didn't make an offer on this machine. This one is still available, but I think it's too big and too much work to move and restore for me. I am going to look a a couple Rockwell 10's on Sunday, so it's possible I'll be posting pics next week. Please excuse my stupidity.

Thanks
Matt


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