# New Shop time!



## blaser.306 (Feb 28, 2021)

I am fortunate enough to have worked all thru the last year of restrictions and isolating, I also lost my wife to Pancreatic cancer in Dec. 2019 so to say that it has been a rough patch would be the understatement of the century ( for me at least ).
  As the most recent bright spot has come along, I have been approved to start construction of a new workspace, and move my machine shop from a bedroom in my basement ( currently 10' X 12' )  ! My original plans have changed a few times already but I have come to the final size  being 24' x 24' with 10', 2"x6" walls. This will primarily be workshop with the ability to park inside for inclement weather, there will be gas heat , 4" 4000 psi edge thickened edge slab and a 8' X 10' roll up door to give back alley access for adding new machinery  . Any suggestions for the quantity and spacing of outlets from others that have done it, I have already increased the electrical from 30 to 60 amp service with (2) 220V outlets ( and learned from discrepancies ) would be appreciated! Being there is still 2' of snow in my back yard I have a while to make decisions as to the interior finishing. I do know as a fact I will be sheeting over the drywall with 29   GA steel ( light grey ) to protect from grinding sparks and gutting oils behind where my machines will be placed.  Here's looking toward a better 2021!


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## Canus (Feb 28, 2021)

24x24 won't be big enough.  Go larger if at all possible.  Same with the 8x10 door.  If finances will allow, install insulation under your concrete.  Will be much easier to keep warm in the winter.  Your feet will thank you.  I had 2 courses of concrete blocks capped with solid block laid around the perimeter of my slab then built walls on top.  The extra headroom has really helped.  Install some sort of lugs in the floor to allow you to pull/drag equipment around.    If possible go with more than a 60 amp service.  Install 110 outlets every 6 feet wired with #12 on 20 amp breakers.  4 or 8 foot LED lighting.  Seal concrete as soon as possible after pouring BEFORE bringing anything into the shop.  Plan some way to install an overhead fixture that will allow you to attach a chain hoist capable of at least 1 ton.  Best of luck on your build.


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## blaser.306 (Feb 28, 2021)

Unfortunately 24 x 24 is as large a structure as I can do. I am already planning on a 8" I beam for a chain fall for lifting . If I go past 24' Costs jump dramatically as pilings and grade beam construction is mandated, Being in a city setting I am restricted as to size and configuration, bearing in mind that this is a Small hobby shop and in no way a commercial venture so nothing massive will be moved in or out. In regard to the electrical I do not ( at present ) own any 220V machinery and am making the provision for 220v outlets . I will be taking care of 110 v outlets when the framing is up .


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## Janderso (Feb 28, 2021)

So sorry to hear about your wife.
24x24 sounds great.  The lugs in the floor are a great idea.
I love my 20x20 shop.


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## FOMOGO (Feb 28, 2021)

I would advise running your electrical in conduit. Makes life much simpler when moving machinery, lighting, etc.. This way you can add, or move outlets, and switches whenever you like. Mike


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## blaser.306 (Feb 28, 2021)

I will definitely take the conduit advice into heavy consideration! I am certain that building materials have gone thru the roof in the US as well, but here a 4x8 x 7/16 sheet of osb is currently selling for $45.00 !2x6x10 studs are just over $16.00 ea . The company I am dealing with said cost of materials has tripled in the last 12 months. So! I have to make the best of what I have to work with!


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## NCjeeper (Feb 28, 2021)

Yep. Lumber prices are insane right now. Have you looked into a steel building? Maybe cheaper with current lumber prices.


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## Brento (Feb 28, 2021)

Yea what about like a pole barn style. You can still insulate them very well.


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## Just for fun (Feb 28, 2021)

I'm sorry to hear about your wife.   

On the power side of things I would try and go with at least a 100 amp service if not more.  It's better to be on the high side then not have enough when needed.  I like the idea of having lugs in the concrete.   If you can put floor heat in, both my house and my shop 30'x30' have floor heat, it's really nice.  The shop I keep set low and supplement with a wood stove.   I'm planning on building another building for a machine shop in a couple years,  it will have floor heat as well. 

Good luck and I'm looking forward to your progress.


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## blaser.306 (Feb 28, 2021)

Yea, inside city limits I am pretty limited as to the amount of latitude I have as far as construction . I will be using a local construction firm that a friend is the estimator / quote giver guy ( LOL ) so will get the best possible costing and " friends and family " discounts! I am definitely excited . And as mentioned it is strictly a hobby shop! The way I look at it is if I need a substation outside the door in the alley to run my garage it will have
 ceased to be a hobby...


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## Just for fun (Feb 28, 2021)

I understand, I was thinking that a good welder takes a 50 Amp circuit add some lights and what not.  I just think your cutting yourself a little short at 60 Amps.

Tim


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## mattthemuppet2 (Feb 28, 2021)

Under slab insulation and piping for slab heat would be worth it in the long run, even if you don't install the rest of the stuff for hydroponic (?) heating straight away. As much insulation as you can fit in the walls and ceiling will keep you and the machines comfortable. Maybe a "hole in the wall" for adding a minisplit later, depends on heating vs. cooling needs though.

I'd also add a couple of 220V circuits at the back of the shop and one on each side of the main door too. You might not have 220V machines now, but it's more than possible that you will in the lifetime of you using the building.

Plan for how you'll use the walls and ceiling for storage, you can free up an awful lot of floorspace if you're clever.


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## extropic (Feb 28, 2021)

Sorry to hear about your troubles and I hope 2021 will be an improvement for all of us.

Triple cost for building materials is crazy. I wonder if the prices will ever come down to approximately pre-pandemic numbers.

Regarding electrical power, the advice to go bigger is the standard wisdom. Maybe your definition of "hobby" doesn't include high draw equipment. What is your definition of "hobby"?


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## sdelivery (Feb 28, 2021)

Have tubing installed in the concrete for heating.
Install a minimum of 100 amp Single phase service.
Local building codes and the National Electric Code determine minimum electric requirements which includes outlets.
Think about a cheap storage shed that can be placed next to the building to house your compressor.


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## blaser.306 (Feb 28, 2021)

_ I have made provisions for 2 220 plugs and had already increased from the usual 30 A panel to 60A ,If I end up getting larger equipment I will only be able to run one at a time anyway._


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## NCjeeper (Feb 28, 2021)

If you are cutting some thick stuff with a plasma turned all the way up and your compressor is running to supply the needed air there goes almost 60 amps right there. Add some lights on and a stereo and fridge running and pop goes your main breaker.


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## Larry$ (Feb 28, 2021)

I'm another vote for more power. It doesn't cost all that much to go from 60 to 100 A service. 
At least one window to stay in contact with the world. Consider windows and or door locations so you can get cross ventilation.


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## blaser.306 (Feb 28, 2021)

There are actually two 36" x48" windows ( I added a second ) 1 that is sealed and 1 that opens, I am also going to have a 12 " ventilation fan with louvers boxed into the wall just below the soffit on the lee side of the shop so the prevailing NW wind will carry the smoke away ,for the express purpose of air movement and ventilation.


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## f350ca (Feb 28, 2021)

Had a shop in Alberta with 60 amp service, was fine for everything, except the plasma cutter. When the compressor would start it always tripped the breaker, then walk across the yard and into the basement to reset it. Got tiring after a while. lol
I'll second running conduit. Adaptable as time and things change and a lot quicker to do than buried wire and having to cut all the box holes in the sheeting. The PVC stuff is quite reasonable priced and really quick to instal.
I've been framing my buildings with 2x2 horizontal strapping, either inside or outside depending on the siding. If board and batten strap the outside then sheet. A 4 inch bat split in two fills between the battens. This gives a thermal break covering the studs. My current shop is two story, the bottom floor stays at 18 - 19 all summer with the thick walls and the concrete as a heat sink. Causes issues when welding, can't open the doors to let the smoke out on hot days or the warm moist air causes condensation on all the tools. Had to install an air exchanger to vent the smoke and replace with drier air.
Radiant floor heat is nice, installed it in the shop but can't seam to control the temperature swings here. If we get a few cold days the floor warms up to compensate, then it turns mild and the shop is too warm for a week with the extra insulation. Works fine in the house and upstairs shop with the wooden floors. They have less thermal mass to control.

Greg


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## blaser.306 (Oct 21, 2021)

Been a while for any updates! Let it suffice to say it has been an adventure... It started off wit the original concrete slab having to be jac-hammered out ! Terrible piece of(*$*#) followed by horrible drywall work . Finally I bought a Kent vertical mill that was as close to a stool sample as would conceivably be possible , luckily I managed to pass it along to someone with full disclosure and a as is bill of sale. They were happy and I was ecstatic. after that I decided to just bite the bullet and get what I wanted , with warranty! just starting to move in and get to a working shop status , but I am very excited for the projects to come. hopefully the pictures will up-load.


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## Just for fun (Oct 22, 2021)

Looks really nice!


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## ArmyDoc (Oct 22, 2021)

Is PM now labeling their machines QMT?


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