# chop saw for metal cutting question



## SE18 (Apr 22, 2013)

I was looking at bandsaws, like Harbor freight 4x6, but then saw the HF chopsaw with 14" cutting disk and vise, and 3.5 HP motor for $99 (discounted)

Has anyone used one for cutting 1 or 2" thick steel plating? IOW, heavy duty?

This is not for production or contracting work, just occasional hobbyuse

thanks

Dave


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## RandyM (Apr 22, 2013)

Great question Dave. I myself like the bandsaws, they are far more clean. The abrasive saws throw a lot of dust and grit. The bandsaws do not put the heat into the work either. I also think the bandsaws are more accurate. I started with a chop saw sold it on Craig's list and bought an Enco 4x6. I have just recently upgraded to an Ellis miter saw (currently restoring it). Just my 2 cents.


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## SE18 (Apr 22, 2013)

Thanks. Oh, forgot to mention that I cut outside so sparks, dust and stuff are no problem. Noise is no problem with hearing protection. It gets really really noisy this time of year where I live with dueling lawnmowers and weed wackers and guys revving up their motorcycles.

I'm currently using a Table Saw with cutoff wheel, which works fine, but I want to be able to see the work better as I'm cutting. I guess I could continue to use the TS and save up money for the HF bandsaw but I heard you need to buy or make a hydraulic lift for it and buy new blades. Factor that all in and it will be well over $300. I realize some people have the money, but just saying


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## GK1918 (Apr 22, 2013)

All I can say my father bought a lot of HF when they were only in Calf. so that puts it maybe in the 1970s
in which he bought a 14" chop saw (orange color) It runs just about daily, never had brushes, has had
a few power cords that about it.  Blades right down the street, cheap.  99 bucks good deal.  In this shop
my thoughts are each machine compliments another as a shaper goes with a mill, chop saws go together
with the torch.  We have stations or areas, I stay with machines, and the boys more or less are on the
welding side.  We do F150 4x4 conversions removing coil springs / replace with leaf springs I machine
spring perches/bushings etc & they do the fab. & welding so with all this going on, here a chop saw is
a must, torch a must, plasma a must have.  Just my example of the use and (abuse) this saw gets and
is still on the job.   And yes we crack the shop door and shoot the sparks.


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## GK1918 (Apr 22, 2013)

whops Dave I just reread your question.  chopping 2 inches thats butter.  Also try and cut something
 like  (you want the balls) from a bearing without smashing it.  No kind of saw will cut that except by
grinding > chop saw.  I made a bunch of 1-2-3 blocks out of 3.5" square stock chopped them into
lenghts, rought milled them two at a time then into the shaper two at a time.  This job, not for torch,
and not for power hack saw, and Im sorry Randy, band saws its the blades.  Trust me by the time
two inch piece is cut in hack saw, band saw, the chop saw is already done, and the blade is good for
a 100 more   dont forget the key is chops dont have teeth. as they wear, its always getting a new
cutting edge.


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## SE18 (Apr 22, 2013)

thanks, I did think of that. Really thin stuff can sometimes break teeth. Lots more moving parts with bandsaw. And certain hard metals just don't cut well except with abrasive wheel. I plan to use the chop saw to complement my oxyacy setup. I didn't know HF was around since the 70s. They're a good 45 min or an hour from where I live so it's still a bit of a drive.

I've had stuff from them break, but so has stuff from Lowes and HD to be fair


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## furpo (Apr 22, 2013)

Band saws are great for new metal and more accurate. Rust, weld, or harden steel will ruin your blade.
Chop saws will cut rust, weld, harden steel, and most anything you can think of, but they are dirty, noisy and inaccurate. 
We all should have one of each but if I can only have one I prefer the Chop Saw.


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## SE18 (Apr 22, 2013)

thanks. I think I can spring for $99 sale they've got now. Have to see what shipping charges are and which is cheaper, store or online. BTW, I read in today's paper that the federal gov't might start letting states charge sales taxes for online purchases. Better to order now than later!


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## RandyM (Apr 22, 2013)

Guess I'm the odd man out on this one. I am missing where the OP mentioned this was waste steel (rusty and scaley). But hey, I'm just coming at it from the hobbist point of view, I have time for the cuts.


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## richl (Apr 22, 2013)

I am a commercial carpenter, been using chop saws for metal stud (and larger) work for 20-30 years, I have owned or operated most of the major brands...
While I understand the value of them, and the versatility in certain situations, a horizontal bandsaw is a very versatile piece of equipment also. I own a vertical unit, and a horizontal unit, as well as chopsaws... If I could only own one, the horizontal bandsaw would fit me better for what I do, but I have had my share of the sparks, dirt, dust and noise so anytime I can work with some thing cleaner and quieter that's the way I would go... You also loose a fair bit of metal per cut, and frankly, a chopsaw is not the most accurate tool in the shop  YMMV be prepared to clean up cuts and straighten them out.

HTH

Rich


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## PurpLev (Apr 22, 2013)

nobody mentioned that a bandsaw can be left to do the cut on it's own while you do other things, where as with a chopsaw you have to manually control the cut throughout.


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## SE18 (Apr 22, 2013)

If I were in a production shop, a bandsaw would be a must but I don't mind tending to a chopsaw. I tend to use a lot of scale scrap metal and things that would rip up a bandsaw's teeth. I joined the 4x6 group and heard lots of stories about how the HF ones need modifying, and people have stories about blades coming off etc


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## PurpLev (Apr 22, 2013)

SE18 said:


> If I were in a production shop, a bandsaw would be a must but I don't mind tending to a chopsaw. I tend to use a lot of scale scrap metal and things that would rip up a bandsaw's teeth. I joined the 4x6 group and heard lots of stories about how the HF ones need modifying, and people have stories about blades coming off etc



scrap metal and things that would rip up the bandsaw teeth is a legit concern. the rest - just like any other HF product you have many faulty units out there, but then again you also have some gems. I had to return my first HF BS because of Quality control issues, the 2nd one is a peach - cuts true and straight, and works smoothly.

there are cases though where a cut disk is more suitable (hardened materials, rusty/questionable material where you wouldn't want the  BS to mix with)


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## richl (Apr 22, 2013)

A small concern, but one to be conscious of nontheless. If you are chopping metal day after day, after a few days like this...if you need an mri (god forbid) you need to have an eye exray to verify no metal particles are in you eye before the mri is done and it rips out all the burrs.... Yuk! Again just a safety tip to be aware of.

Peace

Rich


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## Rbeckett (Apr 22, 2013)

I have both a chop and a band saw.  The bandsaw is cooler operating, less noisey and safer from sparks, slag and the dangers of a rotating wheel.  I have found that I can be fairly accurate with both machines and I use each machine regularly.  I would place the chop saw on an expanded matel base and put it inside a cut out 55 gallon drum to contuin the sparks and dust that gets generated and call it good.  The drum idea came from another site I frequent (Cant remember which, right now) and  provides a back and bottom to contain all of that "stuff" very nicely.   I looked like a small round grill with a very heavy duty grate to place the chop on and secure it against movement.  It also allows you to build up a kind of support  table for long or bulky material on either side of the cut.  Just a thought to help keep the mess and hazards to a more manageable minimum.

Bob


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## Tony Wells (Apr 22, 2013)

Just another opinion, but if you're mainly in fab work, then the chop saw, or better yet, a cold saw, is probably a faster means to an end. In a mostly machine shop, bandsaw or real coldsaw (not the Makita slowspeed carbide type chop saw) is a better alternative. The little 4 x 6's have advantages and disadvantages, discussed ad nauseum all over the Net. But I'd bet most hobbyists have one. I'm not a hobbyist, but I have one. I have larger bandsaws also, but nonetheless, I use the 4 x 6 in a vertical position for some freehand thin metal sawing when I just need to gash something out. If I had to choose, it would be according to my main work, as I mentioned at the start.


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## brasssmanget (Apr 22, 2013)

I have used both too, and pretty much all the points have been covered here. I need a dust mask for sure and a backstop for all the metal dust when using the CS - not to mention hearing protection. I just started using the band saw about a year ago, and I'll never go back to the chop saw on anything over 2" - I like the clean quiet more accurate system now. Of course I'm not in production, so.......Old Age????


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## DaveD (Apr 22, 2013)

As a home hobbiest I have owned and used abrasive chop saws, HF style 4x6 bandsaw, and a portaband hand held band saw. By far the portaband wins hands down unless you are doing same length repetitive cuts of heavy bar or angle iron.

If you want to extensively rework the 4x6 it can be a good stationary saw. The original stands are the absolute pits. A bi metal blade is a must too.


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## Chrispy (Apr 22, 2013)

I currently have several ways to cut metal: portaband ( Milwaukee but I hear the HF versions are decent for the $$), 7x12 bandsaw, abrasive chopsaw, power hacksaw, and two that haven't  been covered yet - sawzall and oxy/acetylene torch. I have picked up everyone of them for less than 50 bucks each at yard sales or on Craigslist - you just have to be patient. They all have their pluses and minuses. The sawzall and portaband win on portability and out of position cuts. The 7x12 gets used the most. The torch has no size limit. The power hacksaw is just fun to watch but slow as molasses. Cuts very straight though. If you run a shaper and the power hacksaw at the same time you'll get hypnotized!)
One thing that's sorta been mentioned but bears highlighting is this; none of the above (except for the torch) is worth a damn without a quality blade - that includes the chopsaw. If you want to go HF ( chopsaw, 4x6 bandsaw, or portaband) just make sure you throw away the blade that comes with it and buy a quality blade. It will turn a subpar machine into a decent saw. 
Chrispy


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## Jeff in Pa (Apr 22, 2013)

richl said:


> A small concern, but one to be conscious of nontheless. If you are chopping metal day after day, after a few days like this...if you need an mri (god forbid) you need to have an eye exray to verify no metal particles are in you eye before the mri is done and it rips out all the burrs.... Yuk! Again just a safety tip to be aware of.
> 
> Peace
> 
> Rich



 I use my abrasive chop saw every week on some type of project.  I wear glasses and ear plugs. I just had an MRI on my shoulder and had X rays to verify no magnetic material in my eyes--all clear.

 If you look at Northern Tool or on ebay, Kawasaki makes a 15amp 14" abrasive chop saw for around $140 with a THREE year warranty.  That's my next purchase


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## Tony Wells (Apr 22, 2013)

That is a good safety tip all around for us that work with metals. I recently sat through a safety seminar for a 3-T MRI that was installed in a hospital I do a little work for, and they were very emphatic about any metals in our bodies being known before undergoing an MRI. The magnetic field generated during testing is strong enough to non-surgically remove nearly any of them, but of course most dangerous are the ferrous materials. I was impressed working around the machine even when not energized. Have to be very careful not to bring anything magnetic inside the safety zone, which is several feet around the coil itself. In fact, the installers recommend no one even go into the procedure room with anything metallic. I needed an aluminum ladder, and had to do some sooth talking. After seeing the results of some of the metallic object that were drawn into a coil, I was pretty wary even outside the circle, with aluminum. It's not just chop saws that can get metals in our eyes. Wear your PPE!


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## SE18 (Apr 23, 2013)

on the side topic of toxic metals, I was told (by a stainless steel pot salesman at a garden show) that when teflon pans lose their teflon and the aluminum shows, the aluminum can be toxic to your body. He demonstrated with some tomatoes (acidic), showing the black color from the alumimum. Of course he was trying to sell those $1000 set pans so I'm not so sure about the toxicity.

Anyway, I do my work outside and ensure there's no wind or light wind blowing in another direction. However, the Bernouli affect can cause low pressure to develop around your body (like an eddy in a stream) so that even wind blowing away from you will circulate back in your face.


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## Ray C (Apr 23, 2013)

Hi...

I think the salesman was a little misguided...  It's the teflon, not the aluminum, that's toxic.  I happen to have some birds as pets (African Greys and Conures) and it's common knowledge among bird owners that if you cook the teflon off a pan to the point it peels and smokes, it will kill your birds.  It's the first thing a vetenarian will tell a new bird owner.  Granted, birds are more sensitive to smoke toxicity than many other animals but, it's a known toxin that can effect humans too.  Aluminum just melts.  Teflon goes through a chemical transformation and is toxic.

Ray



SE18 said:


> on the side topic of toxic metals, I was told (by a stainless steel pot salesman at a garden show) that when teflon pans lose their teflon and the aluminum shows, the aluminum can be toxic to your body. He demonstrated with some tomatoes (acidic), showing the black color from the alumimum. Of course he was trying to sell those $1000 set pans so I'm not so sure about the toxicity.
> 
> Anyway, I do my work outside and ensure there's no wind or light wind blowing in another direction. However, the Bernouli affect can cause low pressure to develop around your body (like an eddy in a stream) so that even wind blowing away from you will circulate back in your face.


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## onecut jimmy (Apr 23, 2013)

I have a power Hacksaw that I used for 35 years and it cuts great. Holds size cuts square and does it fast. 

I had a bandsaw and it was alright but time wise there is no comparison. I stayed away from chop saws because they are(IMO) messy and dangerous. 
BUT I also had a small horizontal mill in which I could mount a saw and use a stop and cut off parts within .0001" I actually got cut off work from other shops because it saved them facing and Deburring operations on large orders.
The mill also came in handy to do other jobs.


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## SE18 (Apr 24, 2013)

thanks everyone. I just placed an order for the 3.5 HP metal chopsaw from HF for $99 and 5 extra 14" cutoff wheels. Feels like Christmas in April!


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## Ray C (Apr 24, 2013)

I've got a chopsaw... Good thing to have and gets occasional use.  Be aware that disks/blades make all the difference in the world.  Cheap disks wear down in no time and require a lot of pressure.  Sadly, the ones from HF are at the low end of the scale.  The ones with the trade-name "zircon" are the best.  I believe DeWalt is one of the many brands that use that material.  Your first reaction might be to get the cheapest ones but, I've learned the hard way, they just don't last long aren't worth it in the long run.

Ray





SE18 said:


> thanks everyone. I just placed an order for the 3.5 HP metal chopsaw from HF for $99 and 5 extra 14" cutoff wheels. Feels like Christmas in April!


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## SE18 (Apr 24, 2013)

well, guess I just wasted $17 on the 5 disks. I assume they only are for cutting ferrous metals?


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## outsider347 (Apr 24, 2013)

Had a 14" HF which expired after 6 mo of hobby use

Set up on my bench, is the Swag Off Rd porta band set up. Love this set up, my go to tool for everything.

Also have a cold saw.  The Evolution Rage Saw cuts great as advertised.  I can cut (angles) & weld immediately.  blades can be re sharpened $20.00, but expensive when need to replace $100.00. Just replaced mine, I failed to clamp work tight enough, came loose then tore up the carbide tips. could have been fixed, but it was the cheepo blade that came with the saw. My sharpening guy said this blade has many sharpening s prior to replacement
This saw cut metal like butter.  I cut mostly tube & lite gage steel. Nice saw. I d buy it again
My2c


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## xman_charl (Apr 24, 2013)

My chop saw is 15 years old. When new, lasted one year, then I had to repair/fix
the pivot/block.

Some chunky steel, along with beefy arc welds.


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## Jeff in Pa (Apr 24, 2013)

I just purchased this last night off ebay ( Northern Tool ) for $139 shipped.




 14" , 15 amp  and a three year warranty


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## Deny1950 (Apr 24, 2013)

Hi SE18 In my opinion you can not compare the two, they are both ment for different work. A good horizontal, saw like an ELLIAS With the wright blade will go through a 2x4 solid piece in no time at all and give a very nice cut, plus you can do other things in the meantime. I have both a Ellias and a chop saw and have never used chop saw for heavy cuts. I would use a chop for cutting small flat bar .125 to.250 or small bar up to say .500 and if I need a butch of them. A chop saw might be a lot better if you have a carbide blade, but cant really say, have never tride that FWIW Denis


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## SE18 (Apr 25, 2013)

So here's one last (I think) question.

Ray wrote: "Cheap disks wear down in no time and require a lot of pressure. Sadly, the ones from HF are at the low end of the scale. The ones with the trade-name "zircon" are the best. I believe DeWalt is one of the many brands that use that material."

My next question is what other blades work with the HF 3.5HP 14" model I mentioned?

Are carbides compatible with that?

I've got a chop saw already I use for wood so I assume that you cannot put wood cutting blades.

Maybe I'm asking too soon. I just got notice that HF shipped it today so when I get it in the mail, my hope is that the instructions that come with it will answer all my questions.


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## kd4gij (Apr 25, 2013)

You can download the manule from HF website.


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## Bill C. (Apr 25, 2013)

RandyM said:


> Great question Dave. I myself like the bandsaws, they are far more clean. The abrasive saws throw a lot of dust and grit. The bandsaws do not put the heat into the work either. I also think the bandsaws are more accurate. I started with a chop saw sold it on Craig's list and bought an Enco 4x6. I have just recently upgraded to an Ellis miter saw (currently restoring it). Just my 2 cents.



Don't forget they throw out sparks too.  Need very good ear protection.


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## E.MARQUEZ (Apr 25, 2013)

A GOOD abrasive blade chop saw is a very useful tool.. quick, efficient and accurate if not a cheap model.
A GOOD horizontal band saw is a very useful tool...quick, efficient and accurate if not a cheap model.
A GOOD plasma is a very useful tool...quick, efficient and accurate if not a cheap model.
 I have all three, they all have different jobs or tasks they are better for.
 Not one can replace completely another in totality (how, when and for what I use them for)

Should anything I use the bandsaw for I could replicate with the chop saw and vice a versa.

A cheap band saw or chop saw will leave the user with the impression the tool method is not worthy.
 A Cold cut chop saw is a GREAT tool as well, and a worthy replacement for all things an abrasive blade chop saw does and most all things a band saw does well.  They are however pricey.

If I had room for only ONE SAW.. it would likely be a quality JET 5x8 or better.


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## Mid Day Machining (Apr 29, 2013)

At Westec several years ago, I saw a chop saw running slow enough that the guy was cutting 2 X 2 1018 steel. Yes, it was flinging chips, but it was a lot faster than a band saw. It was a little expensive, but if I were still cutting steel, I think I would have to own one. 

Now that I'm working in my garage, all I cut is aluminum, brass and plastic. I used to do copper as well, but that's just too gummy.


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## SE18 (Apr 29, 2013)

I'm still waiting for the chop saw to arrive in the mail but took advice and bought a DeWalt metal cutting 14" wheel from Lowes. I was amazed to see there were a bunch of different wheels, some for thin metal and some for thick metal. I think I'm also going back there to get a masonary wheel to practice cutting some bricks for my aqueduct (pictured here)


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## SE18 (May 3, 2013)

OK, here's my perhaps final update on this.

everything arrived in mail. Bought a DeWalt metal cutoff 14" wheel but saving it. Instead, used the harbor freight dealy to cut a bunch of 2" thick steel tubing (walls about 1/4"). It worked as advertised, nice, smooth action. The wheel didn't even explode like I thought it would, being harbor freight junk, so I was duly impressed.

I then went out and bought a 14" diablo masonry wheel 1/8" thick. I cut a brick in half with it but was disappointed at how long it took to slice thru, even though it did the job. The dust cloud was enormous but I'm working outside and the wind was just right. My diamond wet saw would have gone thru the brick about 3 times faster.

But I bought the thing to cut steel so I can't complain.

One thing I noticed at Home Depot (where I just got my diable masonry wheel), is that the dewalt and other metal cutting chop saws have a much heavier base, perhaps cast iron. Hopefully the innards of the HF model are adequate. It did come with an extra set of brushes, which I have no clue how to install. Maybe I have to look for the instructions LOL. Anyway, the extra brushes indicate to me that that's probably one of the first things to fail.

I'm unsure how long brushes are supposed to last and what makes them fail.

Also, I don't know if the more expensive model metal chop saws have special brushes that never fail.

Later

DaveV


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## bubbas55 (May 5, 2013)

i have a 14"hf chop saw that ive had for 6/8 years. no problems, yet, at times it needed a boost to get started but that seems to have gone away now.
ron


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## SE18 (May 5, 2013)

I know I might get criticized for not using a tool for its intended usage, but yesterday I needed to cut some 2" grey electrical conduit (PVC pipe made for outdoors that has fairly thick walls). I happened to be playing around cutting some steel at the time and stuck the pvc in the vise to see how it would do the job. It made a quick, clean cut. I thought it would melt it but it went thru it like butter.

One observation I noticed when cutting steel is that if you cut near an edge or groove in steel, the wheel can be seen to have a visible flex to it.

Another thing I noticed is that using the tool, changing out the wheels was a lot easier and quicker than it was to do with my Ryobi chop saw I use for wood cutting.

Finally, I was surprised at how little wear the metal cutting wheels get from cutting. I expected the wheel to be eaten up a lot more rapidly. 

Anyway, I hope this lasts for at least a few years.


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## Tony Wells (May 23, 2013)

The carbide chop saws are a split-the-middle saw between a genuine cold saw (Haberle comes to mind, and Scotsman) and an abrasive saw. The cold saws use a high quality HSS blade that is designed for long life and is resharpenable. They can cut fairly heavy stock. I have used one up to about 4" round, and it operated about like an aggressive milling cut. The teeth have a special grind with alternating patterns. One tooth cuts only in the middle third of the kerf, and the next cleans out the corners. This reduces the chip load on the teeth. Makes for a nice cut. They are run under coolant also.

The higher RPM carbide tipped chop saw is run dry, much faster than a cold saw, yet slower than an abrasive saw, as Siskiyou mentioned. They throw hot chips, but no sparks until they get really dull and you keep pushing them. They too are resharpenable if you don't break a tooth off and ruin the pocket it is soldered into. Some saw shops can even repair that, some can't. Do not put this type of blade on an abrasive saw. Do not put a wood cutting blade on this saw. Too slow for that, anyway. It would work, but not satisfactorily. Do not put an abrasive blade on this saw. Waste of time gnawing away at such a slow speed you would get nowhere.


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## rfw_1968 (May 23, 2013)

I have an old Craftsman CS that I found at a pawn shop. It has a very heavy cast base and has performed beautifully on any project I threw at it. There's nothing like the good old American machines.


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## SE18 (May 24, 2013)

someone should invent a variable speed chopsaw so all the cutters can be used


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