# 12z Version 2.0



## coolidge (Mar 27, 2015)

I waved goodbye to the old 12z mill this week...in a cross pattern while shaking holy water on the crate. Welcome to my 12z version 2.0 thread!

Rigging - the way they ship diagonally on the pallet you can't get under it with an engine hoist so I rigged it to my Harbor Freight chain hoist. Those lifting straps are rated 6500 lbs each so no worries.



Here I have it rigged to the engine hoist for lifting onto the stand. Note the 1.5 inches of aluminum blocks under each corner, this lifts the mill high enough to clear the engine hoist.



Hoisted up onto my custom built stand safe and sound. Its still slathered in shipping grease and oil but so far finish appears to be MUCH improved from the first mill. The micro feed is smooth and the ACME screws are well lubricated. No sign of rust anywhere.

Note I retained the Leeson motor and electrical from the first mill, I waiting on some electrical accessories from McMasterCarr to arrive before re-installing on this mill.



Well now what do we have here? I'm thinking positive and dropped $1,200 on some mill accessories hoping this mill is at least as good as Bill's!



I raided Enco, the rotary table and tailstock was already on sale and I used a 20% off discount code in addition to that. Feels like I stole it! I gave the table a quick cloth wipe down but this stuff is otherwise still mucked up with packing grease.



Here's a comparison shot, I wasn't sure about the 8" rotary setup, my old rotary table was a 10" I'm glad I went with the 8" I think its sized better to this size mill.



Dang these power feeds are BIG, way bigger than they look in the puny Enco pic. That's the 3HP Leeson motor for scale. These are made in Taiwan and the finish is quite nice.

At 20% off I got carried away and purchased a 2nd unit for the Y axis...ah...um...well...FAIL! These are designed to clamp onto the end of the table, there's nothing to clamp onto for the Y axis. I'll think on it but my gut feeling is engineering a solution may not be worth the effort, we'll see. I'll get starting on cleaning this weekend stay tuned.


----------



## Conan (Mar 27, 2015)

Hi Coolidge,

What happened to the first mill?  I didn't see another thread on it.

Thanks,  

Conan


----------



## coolidge (Mar 27, 2015)

There was a list of quality issues and we both finally threw our hands up on that mill.


----------



## tmarks11 (Mar 27, 2015)

Good to hear that round 2 is going better.

(and there you go flashing the picture of the strong hand welding table at us again)


----------



## coolidge (Mar 27, 2015)

I should make it my avatar then follow you around the forum = evil!


----------



## wrmiller (Mar 27, 2015)

Ah...this mill looks MUCH better.

I managed to lift mine with my shop hoist, but only after whacking off the corners of that pallet. 

Looking forward to your impressions as you get it cleaned and set up.

Quick question? How long are those lifting straps you are using and where did you get them? I had already determined that lifting this thing would have been SO much easier with the motor removed, and now that I have the belt drive installed it is literally two bolts to get it off so this is how I want to lift my mill off it's stand when moving time comes.


----------



## coolidge (Mar 28, 2015)

Bill I got them at Harbor Freight http://www.harborfreight.com/2-inch-x-6-ft-6400-lb-capacity-web-sling-95626.html They are long enough with some wiggle room without the motor installed, they are too short with the motor.


----------



## darkzero (Mar 28, 2015)

Yup, hope this one meets your expectations over the first one. I was wondering how you were going to adapt the second power power feed for the Y axis. It's much different than a BP but didn't want to say anything & wait & see. I'm curious to what your solution will be.


----------



## wrmiller (Mar 28, 2015)

darkzero said:


> Yup, hope this one meets your expectations over the first one. I was wondering how you were going to adapt the second power power feed for the Y axis. It's much different than a BP but didn't want to say anything & wait & see. I'm curious to what your solution will be.



I was thinking of getting a regular Y-axis, vertical power feed like those on a BP or clone and making a different bearing/screw support if need be to mount it to the front of the base. But then I'd have to cut a big chunk out of the front of my chip tray, so back to the drawing board. There is access to the Y-axis screw from the back of the column. A motorized mechanism back there would leave the handwheel up front for manual control.

One of the last times I talked to Paul at CO I was semi-joking about maybe doing the full CNC conversion just so I could get power feed on each axis and use the manual controls/jog for positional control. Extreme overkill, and it would take the (to me) fun out of cranking the handles. I deal with computers all day, and the last thing I want to do is sit in front of one drawing lines just to make a simple cut.


----------



## tmarks11 (Mar 28, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Extreme overkill, and it would take the (to me) fun out of cranking the handles. I deal with computers all day, and the last thing I want to do is sit in front of one drawing lines just to make a simple cut.



Not that bad. Use an pendant (aka "cranking handles") to position the table to where you want to start the cut.  Type the instructions right in the MDI line "G01 X20 F20"... and watch it cut your piece.  No need to draft simple stuff up in CAD.  Use the wizards for things like circular and rectangular pockets (which just requires you to type in X and Y values and it spits out the g-code for you).  Anything you can do on a manual machine, you can do using the encoder and the MDI on a cnc mill... only faster and with better cut quality because you maintain constant feed rates.

my turn to be evil...


----------



## wrmiller (Mar 28, 2015)

Hey Tim,

Yea, 'pendant' was the word I was looking for but all I could think of was the 'dongle thingie on the end of the cord'. 

But...that's an expensive option just to get power feed on all three axis.


----------



## coolidge (Mar 28, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> But...that's an expensive option just to get power feed on all three axis.



Just shorten that to "*But that's an expensive option*" and you hit the nail on the head. You can spend a LOT of money on one of these mills without any difficulty, easily more than the mill cost. I have to remind myself daily its a manual mill its a manual mill.

The other day my McMasterCarr shopping cart...I started off needing just a $12 PG cord grip and the next thing you know my shopping cart had $800 of stuff in it. I said whoa hold on here and trimmed it back to $275. The main item was a $220 steel electrical enclosure, 20x20x8 and that was the cheaper enclosure. You can easily spend $330-$500 just on an enclosure. The delete list...cable carrier $180 very cool but is it really needed? No. I started off thinking about adding a better 10k pot for the VFD and pretty soon I had a pile of stuff in my cart to build a CNC like swiveling pendant. Meanwhile I'm daydreaming about flood coolant and a machine enclosure. lol

I fear its only the looming lathe purchase that is keeping spending on the mill in check. If I had a brain I'd hit the emergency stop on all machine spending and just save for a Haas MiniMill2.


----------



## coolidge (Mar 28, 2015)

darkzero said:


> Yup, hope this one meets your expectations over the first one. I was wondering how you were going to adapt the second power power feed for the Y axis. It's much different than a BP but didn't want to say anything & wait & see. I'm curious to what your solution will be.



Yes that 2nd power feed purchase was a DOH on my part.


----------



## tmarks11 (Mar 28, 2015)

coolidge said:


> The main item was a $220 steel electrical enclosure, 20x20x8 and that was the cheaper enclosure. You can easily spend $330-$500 just on an enclosure.


Take a look art Platt Electrical. They are a good source of Hoffman enclosures.  Of course, if you want something that has a quality hinged door, NEMA 4 rating, nobody is selling that cheap.


----------



## JimDawson (Mar 28, 2015)

Automation Direct is another good source for enclosures.


----------



## coolidge (Mar 28, 2015)

Hey guys thanks yes I looked at Platt and AD, the issue is the depth of this dang VFD drive. I needed 8.5 inches of depth minimum which gets you into some pretty expensive enclosures. I considered mounting it sideways in a shallower panel but that seemed sloppy, I know that it would irritate me until I ripped it all apart and purchased the proper depth enclosure. lol Hey do me a favor and see my electrical thread I just started in the electrical forum thanks!


----------



## wrmiller (Mar 28, 2015)

Hey coolidge,

I just received my panel from Automation Direct. 8" deep by 12"x14" for a lot less than 200 bucks. I'm going to bolt the VFD directly to the back of the box which gives me plenty of clearance (about an inch) at the front. Just FYI...


----------



## coolidge (Mar 28, 2015)

Bill is that 8 inches with the door or without? With that cable that attaches to the front of the Danfoss on the 12z I need 8.5 inches minimum. Here's the one I ordered from McMasterCarr, total depth including door about 9.1 inches, its 20x20 inches NEMA 3R 14 gauge steel. Of course now it looks like I will be getting rid of that cable so I should have plenty of room. This thing must be rated Explosion Proof, McMasterCarr says it weighs 50 lbs and charged me $42 in shipping.


----------



## coolidge (Mar 31, 2015)

Here's a progress report in pictures, this is it for tonight tomorrow I'll have to go raid Platt Electric for a few things.

I got the PG16 cord grip in for the Leeson motor, the plated brass version was only $12 so I opted for it vs plastic.



I had this cord grip pointing straight up which would be ideal for the power cord moving up/down, but that probably wasn't kosher if a liquid ran down the cord. On the other hand its completely sealed so I may turn the box around and point it up anyway.



I installed the motor with some stainless bolts...I can't help myself I like stainless steel.



I dub this electrical enclosure the New Jersey, yeah you could mount gun turrets on it. Its a bit larger than it looked online.



I also drilled, tapped, installed the VFD. It looks like I can control on/off, forward/reverse, and spindle speed via the VFD with a box of buttons and switches mounted to the side of the head or on a pendant.


----------



## wrmiller (Mar 31, 2015)

coolidge said:


> Bill is that 8 inches with the door or without? With that cable that attaches to the front of the Danfoss on the 12z I need 8.5 inches minimum. Here's the one I ordered from McMasterCarr, total depth including door about 9.1 inches, its 20x20 inches NEMA 3R 14 gauge steel. Of course now it looks like I will be getting rid of that cable so I should have plenty of room. This thing must be rated Explosion Proof, McMasterCarr says it weighs 50 lbs and charged me $42 in shipping.
> 
> /QUOTE]
> Sorry, brain lockup! The VFD for the 1340 is what I was thinking of which is smaller front to back. I've no plans to put an enclosure on the mill.


----------



## coolidge (Apr 6, 2015)

The 2nd round of electrical components are inbound...have I mentioned I hate the cost of electrical?  The price tag was getting out of control so I reeled it back in. I'm not really going hog wild on this stuff but I bet I'm north of $900. Part of that was re-wiring my single phase supply, I upped it to 4 wire 10 awg 30 amp 220 vac so some wire for the panel, a new 4 conductor twist lock outlet and plug, big ass heavy 28 foot flex cord, cord grips see that's how you get to $900 on this stuff.

When the smoke cleared I settled on a simple 3 push button configuration Forward, Reverse, Stop, with a pot for spindle speed. Of course as is typical with electrical you buy one thing then the other five things that one thing requires so push button enclosure, wire cable, relays, relay sockets, DIN rail. 

I did splurge on my spindle speed pot, I ordered this 22mm Eaton with the built in scale for $97.


After deleting the cable carrier from my cart several times, I felt the motor and push button cables were going to flop around otherwise so I bit the bullet and added that $118 item.



I decided this enclosure was the best fit...after already ordering another enclosure which again is typical of buying electrical.



I settled on these flush push buttons in red, green, and blue with the appropriate NO/NC contact blocks.


Of course a bunch of other stuff, cooling fan, wire duct, control cable, cord grips, terminal blocks. I think this setup will be high quality, the components will out live me, but its not fancy just for the sake of being fancy. No rows of DIN mounted terminal blocks I used the old fashion type at 1/4 the cost. No panel mounted tach, no jog button. We'll see how it comes together this weekend.


----------



## tmarks11 (Apr 6, 2015)

For your big enclosure, I recommend you get some of that plastic cable raceway duct stuff.  Makes it so much easier to cram all the wires in there in a way that looks halfway decent. I am talking about the gray ducting below with all the wires running in through the individual fingers.


----------



## coolidge (Apr 6, 2015)

Tmarks that looks like the control panel for the G0670 16x40 lathe, did you buy one? I did pick up some of that slotted wire duct.


----------



## tmarks11 (Apr 7, 2015)

I wish.  Although I probably would have been happy with a G0506 (but I decided that I would save the $$ to buy Tormach's CNBC lathe).

No, that was the picture I took in Bellingham.  It was just handy to explain what I meant.

You know, having the VFD really empties out the electrical cabinet. Since you don't need separate contactors for forward and reverse, etc.  My g0709 has about 3x as much junk jammed in there.


----------



## coolidge (Apr 8, 2015)

The first batch of components arrived today, I'm pretty happy with the Eaton pot its turns smooth as butter, feels hydraulic, not too stiff or loose just right. The Danfoss pot on the VFD in comparison had three problems, its tiny, it only has about 180 degrees of rotation vs 270 for the Eaton. The Danfoss pot is also so loose it made fine adjustments pretty annoying.



Here's a pic for size comparison



Nurse, #2 scalpel please...


----------



## coolidge (Apr 14, 2015)

Well its coming together slowly but surely, I still haven't cleaned off the shipping grease.



Here's those laser cut legend plates I ordered after another member posted a link.



I picked up some garage hooks sold at Lowes to hang the power cord on.



The cabinet wiring is getting there, after buttoning up the motor and push button boxes tonight this should go pretty quick. Just the control wires and relays left. That enclosure fan was not that expensive and is quite the brute, cast aluminum and aluminum fan blades.


----------



## jeff_g1137 (Apr 14, 2015)

Hi
Very nice job, a bit of ocd, like i would do.


----------



## tmarks11 (Apr 14, 2015)

That is where the big cabinet helps.  Really hard to stay neat when you try to shove it in too small of a cabinet... and then you end up with ventilation problems.

Looks great.


----------



## dave2176 (Apr 14, 2015)

Coolidge,
What is the source of the cooling fan? Is it 110v?
Dave


----------



## coolidge (Apr 15, 2015)

dave2176 said:


> Coolidge,
> What is the source of the cooling fan? Is it 110v?
> Dave



Yes its 120vac, I selected it because at 28 decibels it was one of the quietest fans listed. Also I was wrong, the blades are steel not aluminum, $27, from McMasterCarr http://www.mcmaster.com/#1976k41/=wrapkn plus $4 for the stainless grill http://www.mcmaster.com/#19155k125/=wraqsa you will also want one of these I failed to order this and had to remove the quick disconnect leads on the fan and solder on some wires. http://www.mcmaster.com/#19155k142/=wraukv


----------



## coolidge (Apr 15, 2015)

jeff_g1137 said:


> Hi
> Very nice job, a bit of ocd, like i would do.



I embrace ocd when it comes to this type of stuff, its enjoyable


----------



## coolidge (Apr 15, 2015)

tmarks11 said:


> That is where the big cabinet helps.  Really hard to stay neat when you try to shove it in too small of a cabinet... and then you end up with ventilation problems.
> 
> Looks great.



Thanks, I thought it might be too large at first since I'm not converting it to CNC but I'm glad I went with the large cabinet. Especially since the VFD fan really blows, I'm not sure how much heat it generates but its got quite the fan on it. The cabinet fan will move 58 cfm so it will be well ventilated.


----------



## coolidge (Apr 17, 2015)

This is pretty weird, it works perfectly (Coolidge looks astonished). The factory forward/off/reverse switch was removed and the motor was connected directly to the VFD. I added a 1 amp capacity 24vdc power supply, 24vdc relays, push buttons, speed control, dang if it doesn't go forward, reverse, and stop just like its supposed to. Its time for a tall cold adult beverage!


Who here has one of these tools? I used some of my top coat (top coat of silver which makes the wire stiff enough to bend and stay put) Teflon insulated 20 awg wire for the VFD controls. The Teflon is very difficult to impossible to strip with regular wire strippers, this tool makes it super easy, it melts through the insulation without damaging one strand of wire.


----------



## jeff_g1137 (Apr 18, 2015)

coolidge said:


> Well its coming together slowly but surely,



Hi
Will the head rotate side to side with the cable carrier fixed to the head ????


----------



## coolidge (Apr 18, 2015)

jeff_g1137 said:


> Hi
> Will the head rotate side to side with the cable carrier fixed to the head ????



No. It could have been installed to allow that with some additional engineering but then I have never had the need to rotate the head so I didn't bother. Consider the untold thousands of 3 and 4 axis CNC mills in operation, none of which have a rotating head. You would have to buy a 5 axis machine. I think the need would be rare indeed.


----------



## tmarks11 (Apr 18, 2015)

rotating the head on a bridgeport to make an angled cut is convenient, and works so much better than using a sine vice.  But the bridgeport is child's play to retram the head back to perfectly vertical, which can be accomplished in a matter of minutes.

On the RF45 style mill, it take a bit longer to get the head aligned back to vertical, which steals away some of the user's willingness to tilt the head whenever needed.

However, if you do need to make an angled cut, you can probably unbolt the back of the wire carrier chain in a matter of a few seconds, and tilt away!

I am not sure the VMC is a good comparison, since I can make my cnc mill cut an angled cut easily, so there is not need (or desire, or capability) to rotate the head.


----------



## coolidge (Apr 18, 2015)

tmarks11 said:


> However, if you do need to make an angled cut, you can probably unbolt the back of the wire carrier chain in a matter of a few seconds, and tilt away!



Correct, two bolts probably 30 seconds.


----------



## coolidge (Apr 24, 2015)

Step 1 in the 49 step mill DRO install is complete. I stole this first step from DZ, thanks man you eliminated having to think about it.

This job left me wishing I had a 16x14 lathe or at a minimum VFD variable rpm. The two lowest speeds on my G4003G are 70 rpm which was too (painfully) slow and 200 rpm which safety wise I wasn't comfortable going that fast. It would have been nice to be able to crank it up a bit, 140 rpm even. Second I was only taking .040 cuts turning down that aluminum round (.020 per side) which seemed kind of light to me. I tried to push it more but my insert was not happy. Also the surface finish kind of sucked I'll have to look into that later.

That said the DroPros EL400 DRO proved itself 100% worth the cost again I love that thing!


I took just .010 per side just enough to clean/true it up.


----------



## darkzero (Apr 24, 2015)

coolidge said:


> I was only taking .040 cuts turning down that aluminum round (.020 per side) which seemed kind of light to me. I tried to push it more but my insert was not happy.



Your lathe can definitely handle much more than that. You should be able to bury a cutter with no problem. With my PM1236 (& the appropiate insert) I take .1-.15" DOCs (per side) for roughing on 6061 on a regular basis. I have gone up to .2" DOC. I could probably push it more but I haven't tried more than .2" per side yet as I haven't really needed to. Around .15"+/- is usually where I stay for heavy roughing when needed.


----------



## coolidge (Apr 25, 2015)

I'll have to post a surface finish pic at some point. I think part of the problem was the slow 70 rpm speed. Other factors were my 4" round was too long really, and look how much jaw is sticking out from the chuck, I kicked it up to the next speed 200 rpm but wasn't comfortable there from a safety perspective.

My replacement 8" BPA chuck is now inbound, ETA next week I'm hoping it inspires more confidence when turning larger items. Replacement?? Yes  Grizzly shipping idiots packed a 44 lb chuck in a wimp box with the backing plate and some tool holders only about 2/3 full of peanuts then let UPS throw it around. The back of the chuck was damaged, looks like it got tossed onto some concrete the metal was scraped/pushed up and there was a dent in one of the jaws 

That said I'm back looking at the G0509G 16x40 lathe where I started.


----------



## tmarks11 (Apr 25, 2015)

coolidge said:


> That said I'm back looking at the G0509G 16x40 lathe where I started.


Going to run up on 2 May and take a look?  Tent sale!  

Probably not for me, as I will be traveling on business all the following weeks, so I will be in the doghouse if I sacrifice part of that weekend as well.


----------



## coolidge (Apr 25, 2015)

I'm afraid my bad hip would leave me bringing up the rear in that mad foot race. I just got my handicap parking permit this week (face palm). The doc tells me an artificial hip would make me a new man so maybe next year. You want to hear something funny, I keep thinking it would be cool if I could machine my own artificial hip LMAO!


----------



## wrmiller (Apr 25, 2015)

Machine it yes, install it NO!


----------



## coolidge (Apr 25, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Machine it yes, install it NO!



I'd add a servo so I could Karate kick a heavy bag through a brick wall


----------



## JimDawson (Apr 25, 2015)

coolidge said:


> I'd add a servo so I could Karate kick a heavy bag through a brick wall


Hmmmm, the 6 Million Dollar coolidge


----------



## wrmiller (Apr 25, 2015)

Well Coolidge, if you decide to start designing skeletal replacement parts I need help with the lower spine, right hip, and right knee (don't ask...)


----------



## coolidge (Apr 25, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Well Coolidge, if you decide to start designing skeletal replacement parts I need help with the lower spine, right hip, and right knee (don't ask...)



I'm guessing...after being mistaken for Brad Pitt you were running from a mob of women and one tripped you?


----------



## coolidge (May 1, 2015)

Finished up my first project on the mill, a backing plate for the quill DRO scale.


----------



## wrmiller (May 2, 2015)

Nice. What's the make/size of that face mill you're using? Thinking I'm needing one.

Is that a 6" Kurt? Looks huge.


----------



## coolidge (May 2, 2015)

That's my Glacern 2.5 inch 45 degree face mill, I have been very happy with it both on aluminum and steel. Tip: I went with the 2.5 inch vs the 3 inch because the 2.5 inch takes 5 inserts so you get two full sets per box of 10. With 4 corners each one box is likely to last me a very long time. Yes that's a Kurt D688 vise, it fits this mill quite nicely.

Here's a pic-o-rama of this face mill and the Iscar inserts I chose.

No less important are the inserts. I chose these two Iscar inserts after researching what's out there, the first for steel the second for aluminum. I 'think' I purchased these at MSC during a sale. Unfortunately Glacern is smoking crack on their insert prices, you can find them MUCH cheaper elsewhere. The steel insert (I used it to shave down the Aloris QCTP T nut produces nice blue chips.


This works real nice on aluminum so far, I have not tried to take a real heavy cut with them. They are polished and sharp edged.


----------



## maker of things (Jun 4, 2015)

Looks like #2 works for you   Seriously though, I have had my mill for over  year now and all I managed to do is order the ball screw/nuts, material for mounts and an ESS board.  I haven't disassembled anything yet.  Interesting that they put a snorkel on the gear box breather (so it doesn't suds over?) or did you add that?


----------



## maker of things (Jun 4, 2015)

Oh and I also decided to adopt your idea of mounting the panel via a removable chassis to the base, so that counts a progress too right?  Even though I have to make a new base.


----------



## wrmiller (Jun 4, 2015)

Jon, you going to CNC that thing?


----------



## maker of things (Jun 4, 2015)

I have alleged as much.  At the rate i'm going now it could be more like an antique retrofit.


----------

