# California Members - Check In!



## middle.road (Aug 21, 2020)

Is everyone safe & sound and out of harm's way from the fires?

I haven't been able to really keep up with all the details but the fires are concerning, considering past years.


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## DHarris (Aug 21, 2020)

in Rohnert Park, south of the sonoma county fire ~15 miles - smoky air, but otherwise we are ok.  A number of friends have been evacuated.


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## tjb (Aug 21, 2020)

DHarris said:


> in Rohnert Park, south of the sonoma county fire ~15 miles - smoky air, but otherwise we are ok.  A number of friends have been evacuated.


 Is it headed your way?  Be safe.


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## matthewsx (Aug 21, 2020)

Plenty of smoke in Santa Cruz and Hollister where I work. Our place is just a few blocks from the ocean and a fire station is right around the corner so we should be safe.

Have friends in the mountains though and am definitely worried for them.


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## DHarris (Aug 21, 2020)

tjb;  no, fortunately, the prevailing winds this time of year will keep it from getting much closer unless it jumps some large areas.  Still, keeping our fingers crossed.


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## benmychree (Aug 21, 2020)

St. Helena, just over the mountain from Santa Rosa area, had a bit of a scare, small fire started on our mountain range just south of us, they jumped right on it, put it out, all the other fires are on the other side of the valley, so far we are safe.


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## Nutfarmer (Aug 21, 2020)

Anyone evacuated that needs a place to stay pm me. Last couple of years I stopped going on strike teams. Just too old. Time for the younger one to step up. Kind of hard to not be on the fire lines with everything that is going on


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## Ulma Doctor (Aug 21, 2020)

i have a local fire less than 6 miles from my house.
we are not in any real danger, the fire is burning towards the south, but still less than 20% contained










						SCU Lightning Complex fires
					

Updated Aug 15 at 3:20 AM PDT




					www.google.com
				





there is also a smaller fire to the north in Brentwood
that is the smaller zone outlined on the goggle map above


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## Nutfarmer (Aug 21, 2020)

Winegrower  is close to the fire in Grass Valley. Several of our members could be effected by all of the fires in Northern California. Hope all stay safe


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## Bob Korves (Aug 21, 2020)

Here in the Sacramento area there was plenty of smoke and hot weather, but no wild fires close nearby.   Nearby towns like Vacaville (~45 miles away) had real worries and property damage.


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## markba633csi (Aug 21, 2020)

I heard the Big Basin redwoods are burning- some of those are centuries old. Does anyone know if redwood trees can survive a fire? 
-Mark


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## Madgepetto (Aug 21, 2020)

Wouldn't you know it...I moved back to Paradise six weeks ago after bouncing around from place to place, moved into a condo, just got the garage redone to house my lathe and a Bridgeport and other tools and now this.....Very smoky here and alot of ash fall, but no fires are an immediate threat.
We'll see how it all shakes out, but my desire to come home is being sorely tested.


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## Aaron_W (Aug 21, 2020)

Home is safe for now, none of the fires are closer than 50 miles. I'm  not home but my wife says it isn't even that smokey right now. The wind is pushing the smoke east.




markba633csi said:


> I heard the Big Basin redwoods are burning- some of those are centuries old. Does anyone know if redwood trees can survive a fire?
> -Mark



Redwoods are very tolerant of fire, but the current burning conditions are extreme.


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## matthewsx (Aug 21, 2020)

markba633csi said:


> I heard the Big Basin redwoods are burning- some of those are centuries old. Does anyone know if redwood trees can survive a fire?
> -Mark


Yes, it's actually part of their natural life-cycle. Some will inevitably be lost but if you hike in the area you will see much evidence of past fires. The biggest problem is lots of the area is developed with housing so natural fires haven't been allowed to burn in the past 50 years.

It's gonna be ugly and many people will probably loose their homes, will take some time to recover too.

John


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## Madgepetto (Aug 21, 2020)

It will be two years come November 8th since we got erased and we're just now getting back to almost normal.Where I'm living you cannot tell the fire ever happened, but walk out onto the road and it's the moon.Very strange.I would guess it will be twenty years before we see anything like what was here before the Camp Fire....And the Town is making it as hard and costly to rebuild as they possibly can.


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## Superburban (Aug 21, 2020)

Not just California, we have two big fires right now, one has had I70 closed down for about a week now, with no easy detour. The other, just north of us is in a sparsely populated area, but the smoke and ash is still un nerving. We are safe here, but it does give us a feeling of what you in California are going through. Prayers for everybody in the west.


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## Madgepetto (Aug 21, 2020)

My kids live in Centennial, we spent the first year after the fire living in their basement! It's beautiful place and the people we met were great, just could not take the cold or we would probably have stayed on and found a house.Kiowa out east of Parker is really nice! Good luck, it's been a crazy year for all of us.


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## middle.road (Aug 21, 2020)

Haven't even seen that western Colorado was having fires. Didn't even pop up in my news feed, and I have an 'alert' set because the in-laws are in Colorado Springs.


Superburban said:


> Not just California, we have two big fires right now, one has had I70 closed down for about a week now, with no easy detour. The other, just north of us is in a sparsely populated area, but the smoke and ash is still un nerving. We are safe here, but it does give us a feeling of what you in California are going through. Prayers for everybody in the west.
> 
> View attachment 334443


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## Aaron_W (Aug 21, 2020)

middle.road said:


> Haven't even seen that western Colorado was having fires. Didn't even pop up in my news feed, and I have an 'alert' set because the in-laws are in Colorado Springs.



Yeah it is kind of crazy, they brought me in Sunday to work dispatch on the Mendocino National Forest due to many lightning fires. The forest has more than 30 fire burning for a total of 160,000 acres and except for the local station we barely make the news. Crazy year.


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## Superburban (Aug 21, 2020)

There is lots of mountains between here, and the springs. It has been interesting that this has not made much news. The fire by Glenwood springs, that has I70 shut down, was the highest priority fire in the country, until Ca flared up so much. The one here, I think now has grown to the second largest in Co's history. They both are in areas with steep terrain, limiting them to mostly man power, and aerial tankers & choppers. Luckily this side of Colorado is not populated much outside the few big cities, so only a few families have to be evacuated. Grand junction is a high plains desert, so between those flames, there is several miles of rock & dirt.



Aaron_W said:


> Crazy year.


In every which direction. Do not say it cannot get worse, 2020 will prove you wrong.


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## erikmannie (Aug 22, 2020)

I live in Santa Rosa and I am a UPS driver in Calistoga. I could barely do my route today because of all the smoke. 

I was wearing a mask, but when you inhale that much smoke you end up sick to your stomach. I think that I should bring a respirator.


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## ericc (Aug 22, 2020)

I read that everybody in Northern California should be prepared to evacuate. Even in the suburbs, some of my neighbors can see the flames from the SCU fire. One of these days, I would like a place in rural California where I have a chance of standing my ground. Here in the suburbs, there is no such chance, but it is easy to evacuate. I have surfed around but have found few resources on sheltering in place. I asked my friend who was a wildland firefighter if this is possible. He said, yes but he wouldn't recommend it. He survived in an emergency fire shelter when his team got overrun. I said, oh, then it can be done. He grew dark and serious and said his supervisor didn't survive. The screams still keep him awake to this day. I still think I could make something that gave you a better chance than those light flimsy fire shelters. Maybe it's a cultural issue. Australia seems to have more information on this.


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## DavidR8 (Aug 22, 2020)

erikmannie said:


> I live in Santa Rosa and I am a UPS driver in Calistoga. I could barely do my route today because of all the smoke.
> 
> I was wearing a mask, but when you inhale that much smoke you end up sick to your stomach. I think that I should bring a respirator.


Yes you should! Be safe man


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## matthewsx (Aug 22, 2020)

Oh, I'm prepared.

But if it gets 20 miles into the suburbs and past the fire station that's between me and the mountains it would have to be gigantic.

I grew up in Cupertino, next to Sunnyvale and I seriously doubt that the fire could burn down the hill and into town that far. Yes, I know about Santa Rosa but that was a wildland interface area. One of the problems I've heard we have this year is due to Covid we don't have the crews from our prisons that do such a great job in normal years. I can imagine some of those guys are itching to get out and do the work but can't....

Being prepared to evacuate is very similar to being prepared to survive after an earthquake, or a major power outage. It just makes sense. I told my 90-year-old mom to pack her bag this morning but definitely don't relish the idea of having to leave with her, and her cat...

A BIG THANK YOU to the wildland firefighters, all of them including the ones in our group 


John


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## Winegrower (Aug 22, 2020)

ericc said:


> I read that everybody in Northern California should be prepared to evacuate.



This is something that I've always been pretty casual about, thinking I would quickly pick up a few key things and be on my way.    I discovered last Tuesday afternoon in Nevada City that I'm much worse than I thought at this.  There was an evacuation order... instant brain freeze.  I ran around fairly aimlessly, put a couple jeans and underwear in a suitcase, and threw a few more things in the car.   We evacuated to a friend's in Auburn.    When we got there, I discovered I had forgotten to bring the suitcase.

Only away for one night fortunately, and not that near to the fire, but now I'm taking the evacuation idea much more seriously.   I hope some of you might learn from my silly experience.


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## mickri (Aug 22, 2020)

Making houses safe from wild fires is a chore.  In the days of wood shake and shingle roofs there was nothing you could do to protect your house.  Wood siding made things worse.  Have several friends who are retired firemen.  They tell me these days in wild fires most houses burn from the inside out due to windows getting broken which allows embers to enter the house.  You would think that the mandated fire sprinklers in houses would help.  But as soon as the power gets shut off there goes the water pressure.  

I have thought about making fire shutters for my house out of hardiboard (sp?) which doesn't burn to cover the windows and doors.  One of those things that probably will never get done.  I have surrounded my house with gravel and since I am a lousy gardener there are no plants or bushes close to the house.  Outside the ring of gravel I keep the weeds/grasses cut down to the ground or have bare dirt.

The area where I live used to be a cattle ranch for over 100 years before it got subdivided into mostly 5 ac parcels.  Cattle will eat everything including brush at times when the grass is gone.  So there is no brush anywhere close to my house.  We are talking over a mile or more.  Just grass and oak trees.  That helps to keep burning embers to a minimum.  

If a fire did start in my area, I would pack up and leave.  Not wait around til the last minute.  Everything I own is just stuff that can be replaced.  I have no attachment to it.

No fires in my area.  Only smoke.


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## matthewsx (Aug 22, 2020)

Here are some tips from our favorite utility company.

https://www.safetyactioncenter.pge....CC-RollingBlackouts3_20200821_SAC_email_na_na

John


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## Aaron_W (Aug 22, 2020)

ericc said:


> I read that everybody in Northern California should be prepared to evacuate. Even in the suburbs, some of my neighbors can see the flames from the SCU fire. One of these days, I would like a place in rural California where I have a chance of standing my ground. Here in the suburbs, there is no such chance, but it is easy to evacuate. I have surfed around but have found few resources on sheltering in place. I asked my friend who was a wildland firefighter if this is possible. He said, yes but he wouldn't recommend it. He survived in an emergency fire shelter when his team got overrun. I said, oh, then it can be done. He grew dark and serious and said his supervisor didn't survive. The screams still keep him awake to this day. I still think I could make something that gave you a better chance than those light flimsy fire shelters. Maybe it's a cultural issue. Australia seems to have more information on this.



Australia was a big proponent for shelter in place, and it was being seriously discussed for use in the US as well. That changed in 2009 when 113 people died in their homes during one of Australia's more extreme bushfire seasons. My understanding is they still consider it an option, but they no longer consider it the best option. They have also put a lot more effort into enforcing clearances and building materials. American's are stubborn and demand their right to build flammable housing in a flammable landscape. Too many believe a fire will never happen to them and then point fingers at everyone but themselves when it does.

As far as the fire shelters go, sure a tougher, more effective shelter is possible, but it has to be carried and affordable. The current shelter weighs 2x as much as the shelter in use when I started and it costs 10x as much. Personally I don't think the increased weight has improved our safety. Ultimately it comes down to being a tool you only use if somebody made some major errors in judgement. The old shelter protected hundreds of lives, the new shelter may have helped some survive who may have perished in the old shelter, but that is debatable. 

Most of the world does not provide a fire shelter to their fire crews. They come up with excuses to justify this decision but it really comes down to cost. There are things that can be learned by looking at how other places deal with wildfire but ultimately it must be understood that Canada, Australia, Greece, Spain, Southern France and the USA have similar but very different problems to solve.


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## DavidR8 (Aug 22, 2020)

Anyone heard from Jeff @Janderso?
(Or is he not in the affected area?)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kb58 (Aug 22, 2020)

We're down in San Diego County and sympathize with what's going on up there. In years past we've had the car fully packed several times, and in the worst fire, it did indeed start eating into suburbs, burning over 1,000 homes in one day. When we went back to work, the buildings had so much smoke in them that you could still see it floating in the hallways.

Our fire season typically stretches into October, so we aren't off the hook yet...


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## jbolt (Aug 23, 2020)

No danger here but the heavy smoke is back with the wind shift. The possibility for more lightning is in the forecast again. I have several friends and work associates evacuated from the Woodland, LCU, CZU,  and SCU fires. Pretty sure some of them lost homes. Crazy times.


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## Janderso (Aug 23, 2020)

The western United States has hundreds of fires burning in several states.
This is August!
We have a long way to go before rainy season.
Be safe you'all.


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## ACHiPo (Aug 23, 2020)

Pleasanton is VERY smoky, but the fires are several miles away.  Chance of dry lightning today through tomorrow, so things can change quickly.


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## matthewsx (Aug 23, 2020)

Little bit of rain here in Santa Cruz now and haven't heard any thunder yet. Hopefully water keeps falling from the sky without making things worse....

John


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## Nutfarmer (Aug 24, 2020)

Eric's : Fire Shelters are known as shake and bake bags for good reason. If a crew has to deploy them someone has made a major mistake. Always have a safe zone ,know the exit away from the fire ,and have a lookout just to watch the fire.


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## ACHiPo (Aug 24, 2020)

A few links you might find interesting.  The first is a record of all lightning strikes globally.  Nothing in the Bay Area in the past 24 hours.  Look like we dodged a bullet.




__





						Real Time Lightning Map
					

See lightning strikes in real time across the planet. Free access to maps of former thunderstorms. By Blitzortung.org and contributors.




					www.lightningmaps.org
				




Here is the NASA fire map (FIRMS) of all fires globally.




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						Real Time Lightning Map
					

See lightning strikes in real time across the planet. Free access to maps of former thunderstorms. By Blitzortung.org and contributors.




					www.lightningmaps.org
				




Finally, PurpleAir is a site where you can check out air quality.




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						Real-Time Air Quality Map | PurpleAir
					

Real time measurement of air quality on a public map. Useful to community scientists or air quality professionals alike, PurpleAir sensors are easy to install, requiring only a power outlet and WiFi.




					www.purpleair.com
				




Stay safe.


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## erikmannie (Aug 24, 2020)

Here are some pictures I took of the fire in Healdsburg. I took these on my UPS route in Calistoga:


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## DavidR8 (Aug 25, 2020)

Oh man, that’s pretty darn big. 
I hope folks in the path are ok. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ericc (Aug 25, 2020)

Nutfarmer said:


> Eric's : Fire Shelters are known as shake and bake bags for good reason. If a crew has to deploy them someone has made a major mistake. Always have a safe zone ,know the exit away from the fire ,and have a lookout just to watch the fire.



I bet you I could design and build a more robust one.  Of course, it wouldn't be mobile, but that doesn't matter.  This reminds me of a story.  One of the fellows in school had an internship to design something of the sort.  He had a target temperature difference to withstand over a maximum time.  A simple application of the heat transfer equation with axisymmetric conditions.  He came up with a crazy insulation thickness requirement of something like 200 feet.  He showed it to his supervisor, who laughed heartily and said, use 3 feet and be done with it.  The intern said, the equations say it won't work.  The supervisor said 3 feet is always enough; just build it.  He did and it worked.  He said that he must have forgotten a term somewhere.  Some of these emergency fire shelters look way overdesigned for 90 minutes.  They are also surrounded by earth, which does not have a simple constant heat transfer coefficient.


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## Superburban (Aug 25, 2020)

What do you use as the outside temp for a calculation? If you keep things cleared around the shelter, you will not have any flames in direct contact, so I would bet temps would not reach 1000 Degs. I think the bigger worry, is all the oxygen in the area being burned up. I would definitely include gauges that show the outside & inside temps, and oxygen  level or something that would do the same.


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## Nutfarmer (Aug 25, 2020)

The fire shelter has to be light enough to be carried while the fire fighter is working. The biggest problem is super heated gases that can burn the lungs. The problem with this type of safety gear is that it can give over confidence and unnecessary risk will be taken. There are no second chances. On the Fountain fire in 1997 while we were leaving Round Mountain the aerial tanker made drops on the engines. We still melted some of the tail lights and plastic that was inside the compartments. There are times when all you can do is get out of the way. Strong winds can be extremely dangerous. If a fire is large enough it will make its own wind even a type of tornado from the hot rising gases. Again if fire shelters have to be deployed major mistakes were made.


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## ericc (Aug 25, 2020)

The anecdotal data that I have heard of is that the 1000 F is only for direct impingement of flames or hot air moving through canyons or up ridges.  This is the sort of thing that causes houses to catch fire from the inside.  Some articles say that if you can stay 100' away from the flames, you can stay and fight the embers.  But, if you look at Paradise, many of the houses which withstood the fire are still unoccupied due to charring inside the walls.  Also, many steel buildings failed structurally due to the heat, indicating temperatures in the several hundreds of degrees.  I have a feeling that most of the time one would be fairly safe in a low cob or tin and earth root cellar in which the steel is not relied exclusively on for structural integrity.  But, I don't know, since I have no expertise in the field. When I ask my wildland firefighter friends, we end up comparing a backpack carried foil structures against a half buried, multi-ton, safe room with foot thick walls.


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## Aaron_W (Aug 25, 2020)

We are talking two different things here, portable shelter for firefighters and a "safe room" for home owners. The second is definitely something that could be done. Good fuels management and maintenance, and noncombustible materials and 90% of the work is done.


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## Aaron_W (Aug 25, 2020)

I'm on my phone so hard to post links but the US Forest Service has done tons of research. Try searching the Missoula and San Dimas Forest Service Technology Centers.


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## matthewsx (Aug 26, 2020)

I don't really see the point of making a shelter in your home. IMHO that effort would be much better spent preparing to evacuate if you live in fire country. For the price of what a realistic shelter would cost you could probably get a travel trailer and load it up with your valuables if any fires threaten. Then get the heck out of the way and let the firefighters do their job.

Maintain proper clearance around your home and it stands a good chance of being there when you get back. I had a trailer stored at my friends place when the fires came through Sonoma a few years back. The trailer survived even though they lost everything including their hundred + year-old Victorian house and a shop with ~3 dozen classic cars. 

I just talked with my friend tonight and can't tell you how grateful I am that he woke up minutes before the fire got to their house. It burned everything except my trailer and an old truck that just happened to be in a clear area. Here's a picture.




There's no amount of money you could pay me to have been inside that thing even with all the insulation in the world when that fire went through.

People who have storm shelters in tornado country really don't have any idea of what direction to run even if they have good notice, fires are going in the direction the wind is blowing and most of the time you have warning and can evacuate. My friends didn't but got very lucky, trying to stay and fight for your home is foolish in the extreme and puts firefighters and other first responders in unnecessary danger. Stuff can be replaced, lives not so much.

John


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## Nutfarmer (Aug 26, 2020)

Money is better spent on cleaning and clearing brush and flammable materials 100 feet away from your home . A safe room??? I have seen fires hot enough to make concrete decompose. No one  is going to survive that safe room or not.


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## middle.road (Aug 26, 2020)

Damn shame we can't bundle up and send our east coast Appalachian Smokies weather out west. (if only)
72% humidity this morning, that would help to subdue some of the fires. 
The pictures @erikmannie posted plus what we've watched on the news is heartrending.


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## erikmannie (Aug 27, 2020)

Here is a video I took today of the firefighting choppers taking water out of one of my customer’s lakes:


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## matthewsx (Aug 27, 2020)

It looks like they may be getting a handle on the fires near me, cooler temps and some humidity in the air will help.

Here's a news story about the redwood forest BTW.









						Redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park
					

BOULDER CREEK, Calif. (AP) — When a massive wildfire swept through California’s oldest state park last week it was feared many trees in a grove of old-growth redwoods, some of them 2,000 years old and among the tallest living things on Earth, may finally have succumbed.  But an Associated Press...




					apnews.com
				




John


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