# End mills to start with?



## DavidR8 (Mar 1, 2020)

Finally got my mill up and running. 
These end mills and cutters were given to me as part of the whack of machinist tools. 
From left to right:
3/4” PM/Plus Lead 3.535

3/4” PM/Plus Lead 5.053

13/16 “Slugger” 

Niagara 20080 1/4” HSS USA E7 Microshield/GP
What should I be looking for to do work in steel and aluminum?







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## benmychree (Mar 1, 2020)

Those are all good for steel


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## mikey (Mar 1, 2020)

4 flute finishing, 4 flute coarse pitch roughing, ?6 flute finishing, 2 flute finishing. All will work for steel and aluminum but you will be better off with high helix end mills for aluminum.


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## MontanaLon (Mar 1, 2020)

They will all do fine. I like the 2 flute on aluminum, less chip weld. Stay away from the import sets, they are pretty sketchy in my experience.


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 1, 2020)

nice score David!
you may wish to get some smaller diameter endmills too
those larger sizes require horsepower to be used effectively, smaller endmills don't need as many ponies to run


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## Illinoyance (Mar 1, 2020)

If you do much in aluminum look for a 2 or 3 flute end mill with polished flutes.  The catalog you order from should state "for aluminum".


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## mmcmdl (Mar 2, 2020)

End mills Dave ? How big is your mill ?


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## MrCrankyface (Mar 2, 2020)

I love the roughing endmills, the one in the same style as the second from left.
Unless you need great surface finish, these work great and can really eat material!
Depending on how rigid your mill is, you might want to look into smaller diameters of endmills though.
My mill is around 1200kg but I still find that it works best with endmills smaller than 3/4".

Other stuff to consider is max rpm of your mill.
High rpm = smaller endmills(usually).
My max RPM is 1400 so I'm pretty much limited to minimum 1/2" endmills if I want correct speeds and feeds.
With more flutes you can use a higher feed without overloading each flute BUT you run the risk of loading up the endmill too much if you try to slot or plunge.

For work in aluminium I avoid all kinds of coatings, straight HSS works great, especially with some coolant.
Never mill steel with a cutter that you later want to use for aluminium, to get a really good cut you want them to be super sharp.

Is the third a end mill? Looks kinda like an annular cutter from the photo.


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## DavidR8 (Mar 2, 2020)

@MrCrankyface indeed the third one is an annular cutter. I completely forgot that. 
I don’t have the arbor for it so I’m not sure if it’s useful to me. 


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## DavidR8 (Mar 2, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> End mills Dave ? How big is your mill ?



It’s a 1hp RF-30 clone, 2100 max rpm. 


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## ACHiPo (Mar 2, 2020)

I would actually recommend getting import mills.  You will break some, especially the smaller sizes.  Better to have that happen with cheapos than Niagras.  Now, that being said, the problem with working with cheap mills is it will be hard to know what is your fault and what is because the mill is junk.  Just assume it's your fault--when feel comfortable moving to good mills you will be very pleasantly suprised.


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## WCraig (Mar 3, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Niagara 20080 1/4” HSS USA E7 Microshield/GP


Newbie here--that 1/4" Niagara, is it intended for chamfering edges?

Craig


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## WCraig (Mar 3, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> It’s a 1hp RF-30 clone, 2100 max rpm.


I've found the online tool from Little Machine Shop useful regarding MAXIMUM speeds and feeds:









						Speeds & Feeds
					

The premier source of tooling, parts, and accessories for bench top machinists.




					littlemachineshop.com
				




For example, the 3/4" HSS cutter in low-carbon steel has a recommended maximum of 460 rpm.  OTOH, the recommended max for a 1/4" HSS in aluminum is about 3,000 rpm.  I'm pretty sure you'll be fine at 2,100, however.

I'm not clear, however, about carbide cutters.  As hobby shop guys, are we giving up anything significant by running them far below the maximum possible rpms?  Eg, a 1/4" carbide end mill has a recommended max of 13,750 rpm cutting aluminum!  

Craig


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## DavidR8 (Mar 3, 2020)

WCraig said:


> Newbie here--that 1/4" Niagara, is it intended for chamfering edges?
> 
> Craig



That’s a good question, I have no idea what it’s for....


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## DavidR8 (Mar 3, 2020)

WCraig said:


> I've found the online tool from Little Machine Shop useful regarding MAXIMUM speeds and feeds:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Another great question. I know that insert tooling on low rpm lathes is not great because most carbide inserts need high rpms, feed rates or depth of cuts. 
No idea on a mill but I suspect that it’s not the same situation. 


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## MrCrankyface (Mar 3, 2020)

I'd say the insert tooling part depends highly on what inserts you're trying to run.
I find that some of the sharper inserts will work great on low rpm lathe/mill but others won't.
I also find that they stay 'sharp enough' longer than my HSS tools, especially when pushing them a bit harder.
I found that CNMG/WNMG/APMT inserts were incredibly difficult to get to cut right whilst CCMT and DCMT will cut like a dream.

Might be a different story for carbide endmills.


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## BrentH (Mar 3, 2020)

Hi David, 

Get or make yourself a fly cutter for surfacing material.  They will work well on most materials and you can resharpen them as the will take some form of High Speed Steel blank - same as your lathe.  You can get a set of three pretty cheap on e-bay or Amazon.

For stock removal The roughing end mills are great and take a bit less Hp to cut through (your second example in the pic) 

For finish the 4 or 6 flute but 4 should be enough

Typically 2 flute for Aluminium and 4 flute for steel and other metals - aluminium tends to stick to the cutter which can cause issues if you are going too fast.

Sadly the end mills do dull - small ones are not worth taking to sharpen - anything 3/4 and up is though (if they are good quality) - then you will start looking for a sharpener or surface grinder.......oh my

I shop Kijiji (Craigs list) for the guys selling off a bunch and then go for it and have fun.  I have burnt out the small ones and chocked up the larger ones and broken a couple by taking just a bit too much....all about the fun!

The indexable ones will still leave a nice surface - don't be afraid to get a couple - some of the profile ones like 90 60 or 45 degree angle.  You can still run up a good speed on your mill to yield a nice finish....

Then you will be looking for a slitting saw........

The fun is just starting!


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## GunsOfNavarone (Mar 11, 2020)

@BrentH any reason you recommend a fly cutter over say a boring head? I was on the fence and I went Boring head just because of the ability to drastically control the size of orbit. I think I've seen them used on a lathe too, if memory serve me.


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## BrentH (Mar 11, 2020)

The "Fly cutter"  will allow you to square up stock and make things flat.  The fly cutter runs with just one "tooth" on the work and takes the least horse power to run (just the one cutter removing material not 2, 3 4 etc).  You can achieve some great finishes.  The Fly cutter also can utilize high speed steel cutters (easier to sharpen).  They are inexpensive compared to indexable cutter heads and for the hobby guys - they typically use the same tool steel as your lathe.

So you have a boring head - cool!!! - you can make custom sized holes and also face things if your set up right - may be a bit flexible over larger diameters if you are trying to face off a piece. etc - check out the ebay/amazon  etc and pick up a set of fly cutters  - you can then surface finish/square up and then bore away!

My mill came with an indexable cutter head (5 carbide inserts) that was good for 1-1/2".  I have a 2 Hp Bridgeport with a QC30 collet.  runs pretty decent and I also have a 3" indexable cutter.  At work we have a *small* mill - could not do much without stalling - got a fly cutter set up (R8) and it was cleaning up aluminium to at least 0.030" depth of cut with no issue.

They are great for cleaning up crappy hard steel too as you can resharpen during the process as need be and you don't feel buggered if you hit a hard spot and chip the cutter - resharpen and repeat 

Once you can get the project cleaned up and ready to make into a part ..... so many cutters and so little time ....LOL


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## DavidR8 (Mar 11, 2020)

I may attempt to make a fly cutter/facemill similar to the one made by @homebrewed.








						Small face mill using tangential cutter
					

I recently made a small face mill that uses a 3/16" diameter HSS rod for the cutter.  The idea was to replace an indexable face mill with something that would handle interrupted cuts better (I always seem to chip the inserts).  I like the concept of the tangential cutter because they're dead...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## BrentH (Mar 11, 2020)

Here is some inspiration - have to get both parts










only thing crazy is that for R8 collets they may be pretty cheap.  For straight shaft  - cheaper.....David...............probably not a Mt3 fit .....but....straight fit ER32


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## DavidR8 (Mar 11, 2020)

Yup, I was thinking a 5/8" or 3/4" shaft for ER32.
(Happen to be watching ToT @ the moment  )


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## BrentH (Mar 11, 2020)

Sweet!  

I have to do the same NMTB30 or ISO 30 or QC30 F@#$kery as Tony - but I lucked into a bunch of cutters (straight shaft) that totally help out.


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## DavidR8 (Mar 12, 2020)

You’ve watched his taper tooling video right?


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## machPete99 (Mar 12, 2020)

3/4" is probably the maximum diameter you want to use on smaller mills, and most of the time 1/2" or smaller will work out better. That said I have one of the Galcern 3/4" insert end mills and its pretty good for tougher materials and is my go-to end mill. I also have their 2" diameter F45 insert face mill, which is good for light facing operations, probably much smoother/faster than a flycutter. I would not go any bigger than that with a face mill. These are not cheap but can do a lot of the work. My mill is a Rockwell vertical/knee setup (3/4 size BP). 

If you look around you can often pick up assortments of older but decent quality US made HSS end mills at auctions, estate sale and the like at very reasonable prices. These are often great for odd and smaller jobs.

I have a basic R8 collet set and try to get end mills that fall on one of the "standard" sizes. 3/4" is generally the limit with R8 but thats about the most that the smaller mills can reasonably handle.


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