# Aloris or Phase 2?



## Maplehead (Apr 25, 2021)

For my brand new ShopFox M1112 12x36 lathe. Is an Aloris overkill? The price for a BXA Aloris with four tool holders is a bit more than double the price for a Phase 2 with five tool holders. Plus, I'll probably get three or four more standard tool holders.


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## MrWhoopee (Apr 25, 2021)

When in the business, we bought nothing but Aloris or Dorian. As a hobbyist with no income stream to justify the expense, I bought a Bostar AXA. Is it as smooth and perfect as an Aloris? No. Is it a solid, repeatable toolpost? Yes. I did a little fine tuning to make it a little smoother, but it worked well as received.  With the money saved you could by a bunch more holders or other tooling.
Here's the BXA








						BOSTAR BXA 250-222 Wedge Type Tool Post, Tool Holder Set for Lathe10 - 15" , 9PC  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for BOSTAR BXA 250-222 Wedge Type Tool Post, Tool Holder Set for Lathe10 - 15" , 9PC at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


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## Nogoingback (Apr 25, 2021)

I've been buying toolholders from All Industrial from their eBay site, and I can't tell the difference between
them and the one Aloris toolholder that I own.  Can't speak for their tool post.   When I bought my Logan
 I bought a Phase II AXA set for it, and while it works fine, the machining on the parts 
was, in my opinion, pretty crude.  If you want to go Chinese, I'd buy All Industrial.  Cheaper than Phase II
as well.  If you're set on an Aloris tool post, then just get the post and buy the tool holders from All Industrial.









						All Industrial AXA Basic Lathe Tool Package  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for All Industrial AXA Basic Lathe Tool Package at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				












						Phase 2 II Quick Change Tool Post Set 5 Holders Wedge Style 251-111 Aloris AXA  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Phase 2 II Quick Change Tool Post Set 5 Holders Wedge Style 251-111 Aloris AXA at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


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## jwmelvin (Apr 25, 2021)

If you’re interested in a used Aloris BXA post, I have one to sell. Message me and I can give you more details.


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## Flyinfool (Apr 25, 2021)

I put a Phase II BXA on my Jet 13 x 40 25 years ago and have had zero issues with it. I never used an Aloris to compare it to, so it is possible that I just do not know what good feels like.


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## .LMS. (Apr 25, 2021)

I have a toolpost from Precision Matthews that gives me fits sometimes, but that's a different story.    I have mix of PM and Aloris toolholders. 

The PM are fine but the screws to tighten the holders are sloppy and soft, and the Phase II I had previously were as well.  Easy fix - just order new ones from your favorite supply house.

The Aloris holders are definitely nicer.  The screws are better out of the gate, and there is one really nice thing they have over the Chinesium brands.   The post that screws into the holder and that holds the adjusting nut and lock nut has a channel cut into it along its length.  Between the adjusting nut and the locknut there is an internally tabbed washer that tabs into the channel in the post, and it prevents the the washer and thus the adjusting nut from moving when you tighten down the lock nut.   That's a really nice feature.

I got my aloris holders used for $30 each, so they were worth it to me for that.   It would be hard for me to justify the Aloris new price against the price of the Asian ones though.  But, if I can get more Aloris for around what I paid for them, I'll do it.


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## SLK001 (Apr 25, 2021)

Maplehead said:


> For my brand new ShopFox M1112 12x36 lathe. Is an Aloris overkill? The price for a BXA Aloris with four tool holders is a bit more than double the price for a Phase 2 with five tool holders. Plus, I'll probably get three or four more standard tool holders.



You kinda answered your own question.  Are you okay with more than double the prices for your post and tool holders?  If so, then buy the Aloris.  Personally, I have a Phase II on my Heavy 10 that I really like and that I have zero problems with.  I can get the basic tool holders on sale for around $12 each, so ask yourself how often do you want to change the bits in your holders.  The more holders you have, the less often you'll be swapping out bits.


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## Maplehead (Apr 25, 2021)

SLK001 said:


> You kinda answered your own question.  Are you okay with more than double the prices for your post and tool holders?  If so, then buy the Aloris.  Personally, I have a Phase II on my Heavy 10 that I really like and that I have zero problems with.  I can get the basic tool holders on sale for around $12 each, so ask yourself how often do you want to change the bits in your holders.  The more holders you have, the less often you'll be swapping out bits.


I'll be changing out a lot of different tooling so yeah, the Aloris route would be much pricier, but I'm one of those guys that prefers higher quality tools over cheaper, as often you end up getting the higher quality tool down the road anyways.  However, I guess the real question is... is my lathe Aloris quality? One post on this subject I read said an Aloris on the Grizzly 4003 type lathes is like Cadilac hub caps on a Chevy. In other wards, a waste of money.


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## Nogoingback (Apr 25, 2021)

I think the real issue is that there are Chinese brands where the quality is good.  We all know that some Chinese stuff
is subpar-to-junk grade, but not all of it is, and identifying the good stuff is key.  And there appears to be some cost
cutting with the American stuff as well.  There was a post around here recently about poor quality finishing on, I
think, some Aloris tools and OP wasn't happy about it.    There are American brands with good reputations that don't always
live up to them.  (Starrett comes to mind.).  I'm not saying Aloris is a poor brand, but the consensus around here is that the 
better Chinese  toolholders are just fine.


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## mikey (Apr 25, 2021)

Maplehead said:


> However, I guess the real question is... is my lathe Aloris quality? One post on this subject I read said an Aloris on the Grizzly 4003 type lathes is like Cadilac hub caps on a Chevy. In other wards, a waste of money.



Look at it this way. A 12X36 lathe is mid-size, not a wimp, and it is more than large enough to use a decent tool post. Is it good enough to use an Aloris or Dorian tool post? Yeah, it is. I own both Aloris and Dorian posts and use them on my Emco 11" lathe. Both of my posts are slightly older than the current generation and have zero quality control issues. They are smooth, reliable, trouble-free and do not loosen in use.

I do not own a Chinese tool post and probably never will. However, it is the consensus on this forum that they are more than up for the task and I have no reason to doubt the guys. You will save money going this route if cost is a concern.

About 1/3 of my tool holders are from Aloris (the rest are imports) and the quality differences between them and the Chinese equivalents is significant; quality really shows here. However, the import tool holders DO WORK.

Perhaps one option is to buy an older Aloris or Dorian tool post. Check with @jwmelvin or @mmcmdl to see if they have a deal for you. Then if you have the money, buy Aloris or Dorian tool holders; they really are the best to use on this type of post. However, if you need a lot of them then it will get expensive really fast and the imports, while not of the same quality, will work just fine.

Bottom line is that your lathe will benefit from a good tool post. How good depends on how much money you are willing to spend.


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## ericc (Apr 25, 2021)

We have a shop fox m1112 in the maker space.  It has a phase 2 toolpost, which is just fine.  No problems.  The lathe's quality leaves something to be desired, but it is sufficient if reasonable care is used.  I think you will do fine with either choice.  Before the TechShop went out of business, they had an Aloris tool post, with a serious weak point.  It had an imported parting blade holder which was downright dangerous.  It had a bad screw that was impossible to tighten enough, and I ended up having an accident with it.  Those shards of flying high speed steel are dangerous, even if you are wearing safety glasses.  The old lathe teacher in our current maker space told me I was an idiot.  Members should be responsible for bringing their own tools, and a parting tool holder was one of them.  There is no point arguing with this kind of person, but you have to always emphasize safety, especially with those like him around.  Admittedly, I ended up bringing my own parting tool holder.  No more issues after that.  Take a good hard look at the differential screw in an import parting tool holder for a QCTP.  The one with the maker space's original import QCTP was bad, and I didn't allow people to use it, but the replacement Phase 2 was fine.  Watch this stuff like a hawk.


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## Mitch Alsup (Apr 25, 2021)

My G4003G came with a cheapo (Chinese) QCTP that works just fine with BXA holders.


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## erikmannie (Apr 25, 2021)

Nogoingback said:


> I think the real issue is that there are Chinese brands where the quality is good.  We all know that some Chinese stuff
> is subpar-to-junk grade, but not all of it is, and identifying the good stuff is key.  And there appears to be some cost
> cutting with the American stuff as well.  There was a post around here recently about poor quality finishing on, I
> think, some Aloris tools and OP wasn't happy about it.    There are American brands with good reputations that don't always
> ...



I was the one who posted about a poor (black oxide?) finish on the bottom of an Aloris CXA #1 tool holder. 

First of all, Aloris was very responsive and they made it right ASAP. I also had another customer service issue after that (with a tool shank) with Aloris, and they were heroes in solving that issue, as well. I have spent a LOT on Aloris products, end it has always turned out hunky dory.

If you decide to only buy Aloris, you will spend a lot of money & have really nice tooling.

On my 10” swing lathe, I have all Chinese AXA QCTP, tool holders, boring & threading bars, tool shanks & inserts. I have never had one problem with any of those, not even the set screws.


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## mickri (Apr 25, 2021)

If money is really tight make one.  That's what I did.  I made a Norman style QCTP.  For under a $100 you can make the tool post and 20 holders.  Not hard to make.  Just time consuming.  You only need a lathe and a drill to make one.


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## Winegrower (Apr 26, 2021)

It’s been said by so many members in so many ways that the import holders are fine, functionally no better or worse than Aloris.   In fact, the CXA holders I got recently through Allindustrial were superior in surface grinding than Aloris and were a bit longer, providing more holding leverage for the tool.

Please, if you think Aloris is “higher quality”, tell why you think that?  Form, fit, function?  I have not seen any issues.


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## Larry$ (Apr 26, 2021)

I've never had Aloris tools so no idea what I'm missing. I still have the tool post that came on my PM1440HD and a mixture of PM,  Shars & eBay  tool holders. All function fine. I did buy some new set screws from McMaster for the elcheapo Chinese eBay ones. The reason to have a QCTP is to be quick! I. E. not have to fool around changing tooling in the holders. I've got 16 holders. I'd likely not feel inclined to buy that many Aloris and do with fewer tools setup. Life's a trade.


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## SLK001 (Apr 26, 2021)

The only problem that I have had with my Phase II toolpost is with some holders (I guess that the problem is with the holders, not the toolpost).  The opening of my holders range from 1.001" to 1.007".  The ones on the low end of the scale have some difficulty in putting them on the toolpost (they DO go on, but it is like putting a 1.001" ID bearing on a 1.0005" OD shaft).  I've heard that Aloris also has this problem with their holders from time to time.  I find that 1.005" is the "sweet spot" for my holder.  The holders that I get from Shars usually are in the sweet spot range - I also can pick them up on sale for around $12 a piece.  I've also never had problems with any of the set screws in any of my holders (knock on wood).


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## Technical Ted (Apr 26, 2021)

I've got both the Phase II and All Industrial  and prefer the All Industrial. It fits tighter and the action feels better made.

YMMV,
Ted


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## Ischgl99 (Apr 26, 2021)

If you want to save some money, look at getting an AXA sized tool post instead of the BXA.  I already had an import AXA size post from my smaller lathe and it fits my PM1236T perfectly.  The disadvantage is you need XL tool holders for tool shanks over 1/2", or modify the standard ones, and the largest boring bar it can handle with the standard holder is 3/4", so if you wanted to using the larger tooling, the AXA size is not ideal.


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## 7milesup (Apr 26, 2021)

I purchased a Phase II tool post to replace the sloppy one that came on my PM1022 lathe. It was no better so I sent it back.  I just bought a 1440 lathe and purchased a Bostar set.  It works just fine.


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## Shotgun (Apr 26, 2021)

Winegrower said:


> It’s been said by so many members in so many ways that the import holders are fine, functionally no better or worse than Aloris.   In fact, the CXA holders I got recently through Allindustrial were superior in surface grinding than Aloris and were a bit longer, providing more holding leverage for the tool.
> 
> Please, if you think Aloris is “higher quality”, tell why you think that?  Form, fit, function?  I have not seen any issues.


This is my question.  We're talking machine tools, not jewelry.  Do we really care if the bottom of the tool has a rough finish?  I wouldn't care if any surface had a mill finish as long as there were no burrs and the tool position was dead-on repeatable.

I upgraded my homemade Norton style post, which was an upgrade to the lantern post, to a Chinesium knock-off of the Phase-II, and had enough money to get a holder for every tool I have.  I went from 1/4" to 3/8" tooling at the same time, and that made the most drastic change in the quality of the cuts.  

I was going to build my own, but it was cheaper to get the Chinesium toolpost than the steel and tooling to make my own, and I have other projects I wanted to get to.


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## Watchwatch (Apr 26, 2021)

I’ve been very unhappy with my PM BXA toolpost. .004 runout on the dovetail.

Spend the money for a quality tool post holder. For the actual tool holders? Go cheap except for boring bar holders and cutoff holder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jroden (Apr 27, 2021)

I have only used Chinese brand tool post until recently. Over the past few months I have acquired a  Phase ll tool post and an Aloris BXA for my Clausing and I can say with out a doubt the Aloris is leaps & bounds above the others. The tool holders and the tool post is much smoother, solid lock up and just plain satisfying. If money is not an issue... Go with the Aloris hands down.


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## Christianstark (Apr 27, 2021)

I just had a BXA sized Bostar delivered from CDCO. Looks like it will work fine, but I don't have my lathe yet so I will hold off on the performance commentary. I disassembled everything for a good cleaning, and then loctited the adjustment studs in place. the hardware appears serviceable, and the screws are harder than I expected. The set screws actually stick to a magnet!  ;-p

I did have to run a file inside the clamping channel to knock off burrs created when the tool holders were tapped, and on the tool post handle itself along the bottom, as it was razor sharp. The wedge castings and the screw clamping casting are not ground, and are kind of rough, but I will wait to get it mounted to make any judgements there. I have not re-greased the internals after disassembly and cleaning, as I may want to hit it with a wire wheel to remove burs and get smoother action between the wedge gearing and the clamping screw, but overall I will say everything looks serviceable, and about as good as I was expecting for the price.

Future projects will be replacing the handle, and the mounting bolt, as they are chromed, and look cheesy. Id prefer a nice blued look. The internal milled areas also look like they were milled out with an angry wolverine, so I may re-bore them, make some parts to a closer tolerance than what came. Has anyone ever replaced the cheap fabric wick with an o ring instead? You can see it on the picture of the large screw assembly, and outside of collecting junk, I see NO purpose for it at all.


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## Christianstark (Apr 27, 2021)

after 5 minutes on the wire wheel...Still scrappy, but less sharp burrs...


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## SLK001 (Apr 27, 2021)

The fabric is to hold oil.


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## Christianstark (Apr 27, 2021)

SLK001 said:


> The fabric is to hold oil.


I get that, but-

the thread sits below the surface of the ring it resides. There is also no way to directly oil it, nor does it wick to anything that would require oil. I was thinking an o-ring would sit proud from the groove, prevent chips from entering, and the parts that require oil can be lubed at the 2 wedges.

just thoughts, but I don’t see the need for the string to hold oil in the first place.


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## mmcmdl (Apr 28, 2021)

Never used anything other than Aloris or Dorian in at work and at my place . Yes they are not cheap . I picked up a full FIMS set to replace my Aloris CXA set . I like the fact that the FIMS has the extra pocket vs. the others . Not sure if I'll ever get a larger lathe to use them , but I have them and the Aloris CXAs have been leaving the basement . The FIMS are out of Jersey so how bad can they be ?


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## SLK001 (Apr 28, 2021)

Christianstark said:


> I get that, but-
> 
> the thread sits below the surface of the ring it resides. There is also no way to directly oil it, nor does it wick to anything that would require oil. I was thinking an o-ring would sit proud from the groove, prevent chips from entering, and the parts that require oil can be lubed at the 2 wedges.
> 
> just thoughts, but I don’t see the need for the string to hold oil in the first place.


Aloris just calls it a "Felt Seal", so it might not even be there for oil.  Maybe replace the thread with some real felt to keep the swarf out.  I wouldn't use an O-ring, because, as you say, there is no way to directly oil it and you run the risk of it starting to bind..


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## Christianstark (Apr 28, 2021)

SLK001 said:


> Aloris just calls it a "Felt Seal", so it might not even be there for oil.  Maybe replace the thread with some real felt to keep the swarf out.  I wouldn't use an O-ring, because, as you say, there is no way to directly oil it and you run the risk of it starting to bind..
> 
> View attachment 364198



Thanks for posting that. I’d be interested in seeing the inside of an Aloris to see the difference, but my gut tells me they are machined and ground to tolerances orders of magnitude better than my Bostar. I also have a good bit of slop between the mount post and screw bushing, and the screw bushing to worm gear. The good news is the 2 of the 3 parts listed will make great projects when I get my lathe.


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## Weldingrod1 (Apr 28, 2021)

Thanks! I'd never seen the inside of the wedge style!

If you are looking for -where- to make an investment, the tool.post itself is where I'd head. It's the one piece that is used 100% of the time!

I have a vintage phase II and a wide range of holders in various makes. I used Aloris at school, and I agree they are a cut above what I have, but I'm happy with the price/performance ratio of my current kit.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Janderso (Apr 28, 2021)

I bought the Aloris 7 piece CXA for my Colchester 15.
My extra holders are Shars. = Love this set up.
I had a Chinese BXA on my 13" South bend that came with the lathe. Hated it. Replaced it with a Phase II, I thought the Phase II was very good compared to the original.
Phase II aren't cheap. MSC has the BXA set in Aloris for $804. The Phase II set is $800.


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## Shotgun (Apr 28, 2021)

For comparison, you can get the Chinesium tool post and a half dozen holders for less than $200.
What was your $600 worth of hate composed of?

I'm not trying to be snarky.  I have the Chinesium set, and it seems to work fine.  But, I'm just a hobbyist and don't have the depth-of-knowledge to make an informed comparison.  So far, all I've heard is "smooth operation", but I drop the tool in, pull the handle, and the tool doesn't move. What am I missing out on?


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## mmcmdl (Apr 28, 2021)

Major difference is maybe the country of origin . Being a machinist/toolmaker by trade , I'll support my fellow USA workers as long as I'm able to .


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## Christianstark (Apr 28, 2021)

Some practical differences would be:

1 - If you are making parts to extremely tight tolerances
2 - Dealing with cast rough gearing means you will experience wear more quickly than ground. This will add slop to the equation more quickly, and long term durability would be questionable.

For the hobby guy, they may never get to the point where it makes a difference, but the professional user probably will. I fall in the hobby user category, and my parts will be personal use. Thats why I chose Chinese...but I was well aware of the tradeoff, and I got what I expected.


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## SLK001 (Apr 28, 2021)

Here are the original patent drawings for the tool post:


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## MrWhoopee (May 1, 2021)

SLK001 said:


> Here are the original patent drawings for the tool post:
> 
> View attachment 364210
> 
> ...



Nice! I've been needing some art for the shop. Those would look great framed.

edit: And it's been exactly 60 years since the patent was granted.


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## .LMS. (May 1, 2021)

MrWhoopee said:


> Nice! I've been needing some art for the shop. Those would look great framed.
> 
> edit: And it's been exactly 60 years since the patent was granted.



Senior Whooperino;

Check out this etsy seller for cool blueprint wall art:   https://www.etsy.com/shop/CatkumaPatentPress

I bought a couple prints for my son a few years back and was happy with them, and it looks like there's extensive choices (even a knee mill!).

Standard Disclaimer: No affiliation other than as a satisfied customer.


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## MrWhoopee (May 1, 2021)

.LMS. said:


> Senior Whooperino;
> 
> Check out this etsy seller for cool blueprint wall art:   https://www.etsy.com/shop/CatkumaPatentPress
> 
> ...


Cool, thanks.

I've already printed and framed them.
Just noticed that the name at the top of the drawing, presumably the applicant:
F. Sirola.


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