# Plate for lathe dogs? 13" South Bend-Single 1 7/8 8 TPI



## Janderso (Apr 27, 2018)

Hey Gang,
I am thinking I need to gather up a way of using the dogs that hold all types of work. I see the dogs come in different sizes. My 13" SB has the 1 7/8 spindle threads with 8 TPI.  I am showing a pic of the part as it appears to have a center mounted in the spindle as well. How do I find such a piece? How is the center mounted? What do you call the plate? That is a BIG one.
Thank you for your help.


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## BenW (Apr 27, 2018)

If you have a morse taper in the spindle an apropriate center should fit in there. There's usually just a hole in the center of the drive plate to clear the spindle taper. 

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## BenW (Apr 27, 2018)

Forgot to add; I think they're usually called 'lathe dog drive plate' or something along those lines. A standard faceplate with a stud bolted in one of the slots should accomplish the same thing. 

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## Janderso (Apr 27, 2018)

BenW said:


> If you have a morse taper in the spindle an apropriate center should fit in there. There's usually just a hole in the center of the drive plate to clear the spindle taper.
> 
> I just have a 1" hole. There has to be something that accommodates a M2 or M3 taper that slips into the spindle hole.


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## dlane (Apr 27, 2018)

Not sure on a 13 my 10L has a proprietary taper”not standard “ I got miller machine shop to make a mt3 spindle adaptor
For it so I could use a dead center with the face plate


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## Janderso (Apr 27, 2018)

Interesting, Miller Machine and I are old friends $$$$


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## Technical Ted (Apr 27, 2018)

The plate is called a "face plate". You will most likely need an adapter to go from the spindle taper in your lathe to a #2 or #3 morse taper so you can use a center. The adapter will have a taper that is close to a morse taper angle, but an odd ball diameter. I made one for my 15" SB lathe, but got one when I bought my 13" SB. The only time I use the adapter is to hold centers when I regrind them with my tool post grinder. 

You don't need a face plate to use a center and lathe dog. In fact, you don't even need the center. Take a piece of round stock and put it into a 3 or 4 jaw chuck and turn your compound to 30 degrees and turn a 60 degree taper on the stock. Now you have a center that runs perfectly true! Use a lathe dog to drive you work piece by putting the driving end of the dog up against one of your chuck jaws.

In all my years, I've used a face plate to hold odd shaped pieces, but have never used a center in the spindle with a face plate for turning between centers. I've always just used the method with a 4 jaw chuck I just described. 

Works great for me,
Ted


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## Janderso (Apr 27, 2018)

Ted, that is a simple solution to my question/s.
I think this forum is pretty darn terrific


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## Technical Ted (Apr 27, 2018)

Here's some info that you might find useful. It gives dimensions for the spindle taper, etc.. 

http://www.wswells.com/data/spec_sheet/7324.pdf

Ted


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## benmychree (Apr 27, 2018)

Technical Ted said:


> The plate is called a "face plate". You will most likely need an adapter to go from the spindle taper in your lathe to a #2 or #3 morse taper so you can use a center. The adapter will have a taper that is close to a morse taper angle, but an odd ball diameter. I made one for my 15" SB lathe, but got one when I bought my 13" SB. The only time I use the adapter is to hold centers when I regrind them with my tool post grinder.
> 
> You don't need a face plate to use a center and lathe dog. In fact, you don't even need the center. Take a piece of round stock and put it into a 3 or 4 jaw chuck and turn your compound to 30 degrees and turn a 60 degree taper on the stock. Now you have a center that runs perfectly true! Use a lathe dog to drive you work piece by putting the driving end of the dog up against one of your chuck jaws.
> 
> ...


The dog driving plate is always smaller than a faceplate; the faceplate is not intended to drive lathe dogs.  Also the dog driving plate has one open slot from nearly the thread diameter and is open at the end of the OD of the plate.
Generally, the spindle ID taper is an odd diameter Morse taper and the ID is one size smaller Morse taper; you can usually use a morse taper sleeve cut down in length and the tang slot end removed to make a sleeve for the center.  The headstock end center is generally left soft, not hardened, so that it can be cleaned up with a turning tool to run perfectly true without having to grind it.  I make a witness mark on the spindle end, like a "O" and repeat it on the sleeve and center so that they can be inserted in the spindle and repeat closely with (lack of) runout.


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## Janderso (Apr 27, 2018)

Holy Cow, that's great to have the specs. I had no idea there was a taper in the spindle. I have work to do.
I have been so busy with building up my equipment, making obvious cleaning, adjusting, repairs to this old equipment I have not had much operating time. That is going to change soon.
Thank you!!


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## Technical Ted (Apr 27, 2018)

Do yourself a big favor and find a copy of South Bend's "How to Run a Lathe". There are many versions (any will do) and they are available in paper or you can find a free one to download in PDF.  There are other books available that cover the same type of basic info, but this one was published by South Bend (the maker of your lathe) and is loaded with pictures of the different lathes, their tooling, dimension, basic operating instructions and some pretty unique setups that you can make. It will help put a name on the different components and devices used on South Bend lathes along with how to sharpen tooling, etc.. 

Ted


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## benmychree (Apr 27, 2018)

Speaking of lathe centers, I once had a lathe of approximately 24" swing and 6 ft center distance that was likely built in the 1840s or 1850s, it was back geared, had cone pulleys and made to be driven by line shafting, no gear guards and vee thread lead screw, but not equipped for threading, only feeding, it did not have a rack and pinion for moving the carriage, but instead had a flat leaf chain; with that background, my point here is that it had SQUARE tapered centers, about the size of #3 Morse taper, the spindle was not hollow, and had a tang slot to eject the center, and the tailstock ram was hollow and a knockout bar was used to eject that center.  Add that to the list of things that I should have taken pictures of!
It finally was traded off to a machinery dealer who collected antique machinery for a buyer who collected antique machine tools.


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## Charles Spencer (Apr 28, 2018)

Technical Ted said:


> Do yourself a big favor and find a copy of South Bend's "How to Run a Lathe". There are many versions (any will do) and they are available in paper or you can find a free one to download in PDF.  There are other books available that cover the same type of basic info, but this one was published by South Bend (the maker of your lathe) and is loaded with pictures of the different lathes, their tooling, dimension, basic operating instructions and some pretty unique setups that you can make. It will help put a name on the different components and devices used on South Bend lathes along with how to sharpen tooling, etc..
> 
> Ted



http://www.campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_1of2.pdf

http://www.campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_2of2.pdf


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## projectnut (Apr 28, 2018)

Technical Ted said:


> The plate is called a "face plate". You will most likely need an adapter to go from the spindle taper in your lathe to a #2 or #3 morse taper so you can use a center. The adapter will have a taper that is close to a morse taper angle, but an odd ball diameter. I made one for my 15" SB lathe, but got one when I bought my 13" SB. The only time I use the adapter is to hold centers when I regrind them with my tool post grinder.
> 
> You don't need a face plate to use a center and lathe dog. In fact, you don't even need the center. Take a piece of round stock and put it into a 3 or 4 jaw chuck and turn your compound to 30 degrees and turn a 60 degree taper on the stock. Now you have a center that runs perfectly true! Use a lathe dog to drive you work piece by putting the driving end of the dog up against one of your chuck jaws.
> 
> ...



I use the same method.  While I do have face plates and centers that fit the headstock it's much simpler and faster to use the method Technical Ted described.  In fact I have about a dozen different diameter and length pieces of stock I've used for centers in a rack on the back of the lathe.  Each time I use one I do a skim cut just to be sure it runs true.  I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've used the larger face plate.


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## Bob Korves (Apr 28, 2018)

I bought a D1-4 spindle adapter for my lathe with the idea of making a dog driver from a piece of 1/2" steel plate I have.  I thought about the design for some time, but then I thought of all the times I needed to use a lathe dog and could not find one that could fit the work at the same time it fit the driver.  I always ended up modifying something or just using the cut center in the chuck idea.  My current plan is to make a dog driver if and when I need one, and only make it fit the job of the moment, then modifying it for every new project that will not fit the way it is.  It sounds like the lazy man approach, and it is, but guessing what I might need down the road is just a waste of time and effort.  Too many variables...


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## jdedmon91 (Feb 19, 2019)

I did the adapter plate, plus a steel plate for mine 










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## benmychree (Feb 19, 2019)

For my 9" Monarch lathe, I made both a driving plate and a faceplate; I made patterns and had them cast in iron, I took the design of the faceplate from an original one borrowed from a friend, for the driving plate I just winged the design, making it just like original ones that I've seen, I made a thread plug gage to fit the thread when I machined them.  Also pictured is the follw rest that I made and steady rest.


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## Janderso (Feb 20, 2019)

That's pretty cool John.
Having your name on the drive plate makes that a one of a kind.
Beautiful work. Bob mentioned you still had a collection of beautifully made molds.
We are in the presence of genius. This is a lost art IMHO.


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## Bob Korves (Feb 20, 2019)

Jeff, I also thought that putting the pattern maker's name on it was pretty cool, and gives John credit for posterity.  When I mentioned it, John said, nah, it is so they can find your pattern and part at the foundry.  Makes perfect sense.  John loves to show and explain his work, but always for sharing knowledge, not so much for patting himself on the back.  There are many patterns and parts in John's shop and in the field with "York" on them.


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## benmychree (Feb 20, 2019)

Janderso said:


> That's pretty cool John.
> Having your name on the drive plate makes that a one of a kind.
> Beautiful work. Bob mentioned you still had a collection of beautifully made molds.
> We are in the presence of genius. This is a lost art IMHO.


I make no claim to the genius designation, I do have some talent -----


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## 38super (Apr 21, 2019)

SB13 1 inch ID spindle uses MT-4 taper, MT-3 is used on the tail stock.  On benmytree's face plates, notice the thread relief cut on the spindle boss.  This is to allow the back face to mate flush to the lathe spindle flange.


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## Janderso (Apr 22, 2019)

I told you he is a genius.


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