# Which version of the Machinery Handbook would you recommend?



## GunsOfNavarone (Jun 27, 2019)

Evening gents! There are many versions of the M.H. And would like to get some advice on a version. 
"Toolbox", "Guide" and there even be some good arguments on versions previous to the latest (30th?)
I see digital copies available, that sounds appealing, but something about a handbook draws me in. Truth be told, the oldest version I can find calls to me too, I love vintage tools....I know t he meat is unchanged, but there probably plenty that has changed.
Cheers


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## mmcmdl (Jun 27, 2019)

I have a 22nd edition and one from way back when , possibly the 1920s ? I needed / used the newer for thread pitch limits but haven't opened either since 1999 . I guess it depends on what you would need a MH for or what you want to collect .


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jun 27, 2019)

It's for learning/reference....collecting something beautiful and old is priceless, but I need current info and such. I have read people comments that prefer their 24th, 26th and 29th edition....


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## benmychree (Jun 27, 2019)

I bought one, I think the 16th edition in the early 1960s; there is nothing in subsequent editions that I personally need to know or refer to: what we do is not rocket science.


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## mmcmdl (Jun 27, 2019)

I can't think of any reason I would need to open the HM at this point in time , there are so many charts and cheat sheets in my toolbox from years past . About the only thing I go to now is my 2 ft x 3 ft Besly tap and drill decimal chart .


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## Bob Korves (Jun 28, 2019)

They are all good for reference purposes.  These days, all the info is available on the web with a search, and you can choose the one you like, for free.  Still, if you don't have a computer in the shop, it is not so handy for quick answers.  I have the 22nd edition of Machinery's Handbook, and also the first edition (reprint.)  Both are excellent sources of data and knowledge, well worth reading from cover to cover.


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## catsparadise (Jun 28, 2019)

Copies turn up very occasionally over this side of the pond. My copy came of the bay of E, sold by a charity shop. 11th edition, fourth printing, 1943.
Every now and then it's nice to open the book rather than stare at a screen to learn/find out something.


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## MarkM (Jun 28, 2019)

I think it would be interesting to see the editions after ww1, ww2, and something from modern times with the reserch and development with materials and modern machining.
In a round about kind of way I bet there closer than we think.  Machining is maching but how it is applied has drastically changed.


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## Bob Korves (Jun 28, 2019)

MarkM said:


> In a round about kind of way I bet there closer than we think. Machining is maching but how it is applied has drastically changed.


My Machinery's Handbook 1st edition (reprint) is a really interesting read.  If you think 1914 was the dark ages of machining, you will be surprised to see how advanced the art was in those days.  They did not have the technology that has developed since, but their brains were every bit as good as ours, and they had all the basics figured out and in common use.  It was not just hammer, file, and anvil, there were advanced gear making machines in use, just one example.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jun 28, 2019)

So, what I’m hearing is;
Get the oldest one you can find, for a machinist, it at the very least can give you the warm and fuzzies (I can appreciate this)
If you need answers, the internet is full of vast shapes and sizes...for free, pick your favorite. ( I also can appreciate this)
Some of you are quite humble...I think technically, some of what you do IS “rocket science” I think you take for granted what a somewhat newb 50 year old sees as fascinating and mesmerizing....I really could do this all day long for free and die a happy man.
Thanks for the input!


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## Bob Korves (Jun 28, 2019)

If you want to do CNC work, or use other machine types and techniques that are relatively new, then a newer reference book would probably suit you better when learning to use those machines.  For basic mechanical machines and basic shop work, any of them will be fine, but the old ones were published when manual machines were all there was.  A cheap used one from the 1950's to 1980's that is in decent shape, not falling apart, would cover 99+% of what most of us do in our home hobby shops, and, like having an old apron and some vintage tools, it makes you look like a wise old timer, which helps when you are really a lost newbie or a confused old man like me...


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## 4ssss (Jun 28, 2019)

Don't bother. Unless you're an engineer it's useless.  Everything you need to figure out is on the internet, along with all the answers.


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## mmcmdl (Jun 28, 2019)

Everyday another adventure . I was trying to locate an old Cub part and found a box of Audels books from the 20s from my uncle's dads shop .


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## stioc (Jun 28, 2019)

I find the Engineer's Blackbook is so much better as a quick and handy reference in the shop. It lacks the breadth and depth of the MH but that's also it's strength- among several other advantages too (spiral bound, grease resistant, colored charts etc).


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jun 28, 2019)

mmcmdl said:


> Everyday another adventure . I was trying to locate an old Cub part and found a box of Audels books from the 20s from my uncle's dads shop .


Yeah, I just purchased a Mitutoyo micrometer from the the early 60’s...just one of those things to look at and kinda of appreciate its existence?...I dunno, but I think it cool...


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jun 28, 2019)

stioc said:


> I find the Engineer's Blackbook is so much better as a quick and handy reference in the shop. It lacks the breadth and depth of the MH but that's also it's strength- among several other advantages too (spiral bound, grease resistant, colored charts etc).



Interesting...I guess I haven’t dove into other options...this just seems to be the bread and butter reference. I’ll look into that, thanks!


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## Asm109 (Jun 28, 2019)

Bob's answer aligns well with my thinking.  I would add that the old versions (a teens edition or earlier) have an awesome section on coloring metals.  It is home brew recipes for making plating solutions for steel, copper etc.  Needless to say this info has been dropped from the new more environmentally aware editions.  If you are a real home shop do it yourselfer, this will appeal.


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## MarkM (Jun 28, 2019)

I mostly use my laminated zeus shop book(decades old and still looks new) but they don t call it the bible for nothing!  The Men and Woman of yester year manualy cranking and mechanically driven.  Immortal Brilliance!  Were not even close!
The thing about the Mach. H is it s like a tool.  You have to learn how to use it and not get lost.  
Not my go to though.  More of a solution solver or definite reference.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jun 28, 2019)

Asm109 said:


> Bob's answer aligns well with my thinking.  I would add that the old versions (a teens edition or earlier) have an awesome section on coloring metals.  It is home brew recipes for making plating solutions for steel, copper etc.  Needless to say this info has been dropped from the new more environmentally aware editions.  If you are a real home shop do it yourselfer, this will appeal.


This is better than just note worthy!


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## Bob Korves (Jun 28, 2019)

In my Machinery's Handbook first edition reprint there is some really good heat treat information, given in simple instructions on how it is done, and appears to be written for smaller shops to use.


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## astjp2 (Jun 28, 2019)

I would get the most expensive one you can afford.  I have a 24 and a 26 that i picked up over the years.  I would not trust everything you read on the internet, the Gingerly books are a good set of references too.  I also got the highschool shop book, "Machine tool practices"


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jun 28, 2019)

astjp2 said:


> I would get the most expensive one you can afford.  I have a 24 and a 26 that i picked up over the years.  I would not trust everything you read on the internet, the Gingerly books are a good set of references too.  I also got the highschool shop book, "Machine tool practices"


Ok....but I can get the hardback 30th edition for $60 up to $170, I'm thinking the $60 option! Also, I think this part of the question has been buried, there is toolbox version, guide version and I think one more...those prices vary too, but I have no idea which is which and what difference is...


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## astjp2 (Jun 28, 2019)

I hate E-books, I only like to read real books, the hardback one is the one I would get.  I think that if you get the complete one, even if it is a few revisions behind will be OK for the average hobbiest.  Most of the newer versions are adding CNC/laser/waterjet types of references.  If the $60 version is the unabbridged, then that is what I would buy if it was me.  YMMV Tim


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## mickri (Jun 28, 2019)

These things are pricey.  I passed on one in a consignment shop that I stop in from time to time.  They wanted $75 for an older MH in pristine condition.  Actually the book was free  but you had to buy a good condition Gestner leather covered tool chest to get the book.  Didn't need the tool chest.  Maybe I ought to stop in and see if they still have it for sale.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jun 28, 2019)

astjp2 said:


> I hate E-books, I only like to read real books, the hardback one is the one I would get.  I think that if you get the complete one, even if it is a few revisions behind will be OK for the average hobbiest.  Most of the newer versions are adding CNC/laser/waterjet types of references.  If the $60 version is the unabbridged, then that is what I would buy if it was me.  YMMV Tim


Funny you say that, i have the pocket guide, and the 30th edition along with the 26th edition...I need the tactile feel of the book, i just can't "flip" through the electronic version for hours...though it would save me money, I just can't seem to do it.


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## Bob Korves (Jun 28, 2019)

mickri said:


> These things are pricey.  I passed on one in a consignment shop that I stop in from time to time.  They wanted $75 for an older MH in pristine condition.  Actually the book was free  but you had to buy a good condition Gestner leather covered tool chest to get the book.  Didn't need the tool chest.  Maybe I ought to stop in and see if they still have it for sale.


Look here:








						machinery s handbook for sale | eBay
					

Get the best deals for machinery s handbook at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items!



					www.ebay.com
				



Watch out for "guide", which is not the book, but only a guide to the book.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Jun 28, 2019)

Bob Korves said:


> Look here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep....I have the 26th, 30th and the guide all in electronic form...I just really need a REAL book. Sounds like a later version, say 26 or later...and possibly some other ideas beyond the Machinery handbook are good suggestions.


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## tcarrington (Jun 28, 2019)

I have a 1955 and a 1990. what I use most of the time is the Engineer's Black Book. That tends to be the information I need more concisely available.


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## astjp2 (Jun 28, 2019)

More references if you can find copies:


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## Aaron_W (Jun 28, 2019)

The various editions do change over time. There is a lot of information in the older books, that was dropped from the later books. There is a lot of information in the newer editions that didn't exist when the older editions were written, and much that existed, but wasn't considered important to the MH audience (metric system for example). 

Since the 1940s the book has remained roughly the same page count, the only way that has occurred is by eliminating "obsolete" information. 

This website does a nice job of covering some of the differences, although it does not go into deep detail of the changes.






						Machinery's Handbook a review of over 90 years of the machinists bible. : Anvilfire Book Review  - anvilfire Blacksmithing and Metalworking Book and Video Reviews
					

Machinery's Handbook, the Machinist's Bible, a 95 year tradition. Collective review of 28 editions.  Anvilfire! Book Review.



					www.anvilfire.com
				





I bought a 1953 edition because it includes a bunch of stuff about forging and blacksmithing that was gradually dropped during the 1960s-70s and is all but gone by the 1980s editions. On the other side, this version includes just a few pages on the basics of the metric system, and contains nothing else metric related, no metric fasteners etc.

I also have an early 90s edition which includes a lot of info on the metric system, metric fasteners, CNC and has info on newer materials not covered in my older book among other things. 


In addition to the Handbook there is a small guide, that goes with it. The Handbook is a reference and assumes the user is knowledgeable about the subject. The guide is a learning assist that goes into greater detail on the information in the handbook. Not really needed for a professional, but I have found the guide helpful, since I don't have a formal machining education.



I agree that there are more user friendly references available, but the MH does have a ton of interesting material. If you are patient you can find other than the latest edition fairly cheap. I think I paid around $30 for my later handbook and guide set, and less than $50 for the 1950s handbook and guide.


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## astjp2 (Jun 28, 2019)

I found mine, I have a 12th edition and a 26th edition along with the above references.  I also like the high school shop text book, it does a lot of explaining the operational setups that are not in the MH.  Tim


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## pontiac428 (Jul 1, 2019)

My copy is the 9th edition (1936) that matches my lathe.  I like the older versions better.  The information is more suitable for a home shop, since the techniques we use as manual machinists in a home shop are closer to pre-war industrial tech than they are to modern industrial tech.


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## stioc (Jul 1, 2019)

astjp2 said:


> I found mine, I have a 12th edition and a 26th edition along with the above references.  I also like the high school shop text book, it does a lot of explaining the operational setups that are not in the MH.  Tim


Which book is that? author? ISBN etc?


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## astjp2 (Jul 1, 2019)




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## gaston (Jul 31, 2019)

mine is the 20th edition I bought in Quartzite AZ at a swap meet vendor for 5 dollars and other than the jacket being faided I dont't think it was ever opened . The book is in mint condition. 
Its a book I read when I want to learn more about a operation.
I also have the Cd version of the book that I use when I want to read about a subject,  it helps to have things larger so the tired old eyes can see it better.
  I have the Engineers Black Book I keep in the shop for quick reference.


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## WalterC (Aug 4, 2019)

Books? I don't need no stinking books! I just fumble around until something fits! 

  I have two. When I start something new, I like as much input as possible, I love math and love learning- stuff!!
 The first book I bought was from the early 1900's and had diagrams dating to the 1800's. It explained the basics of operations and bit grinding and such but no tables. Fascinating they had figured out so much in a short time.
 My second book of course is the 3" thick 21st addition machinists handbook (1980 print)- it has everything, every table, every answer to almost any question I would have. The original owner; Russell Kruckenberg, sure enjoyed it (Signed on first page).  

 I remember the first time I really opened the book and became immersed in it. The power went off for an hour or so in the winter, so by the glow of the antique oil lamps I had lit, I opened the book and began reading. I kept reading long after the power came back on. It was a good way to pass the time.
 It's said we use only 10% of our brains, well, I used up that 10% and to input any more information, I had to lose some previously input information. So I keep the book near me when working in the shop.

 The internet is nice, but stopping what I'm doing to go into the office and look up information isn't an option. Besides, there's nothing like reading a book, consulting a book. It's at hand, is easy and quick to open, it's already printed out, won't fail when the power is out, won't crash,  and all you need is light and time.


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## Flyinfool (Aug 4, 2019)

With all of the editions of the Machinery Handbook, do they ever remove info, or just keep adding more as new technology develops?


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## Asm109 (Aug 4, 2019)

They do drop some items.  As I noted, the chapter on diy metal finishing (plating) is much reduced today compared to the chapters in pre WWII versions.


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## pontiac428 (Aug 4, 2019)

For me, older is better.


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## Firstgear (Aug 4, 2019)

Here you go...you can get various versions here.  I bought one from 1955 on this site.  Its an array of bookstores from around the country.






						Machinerys Handbook - AbeBooks
					

The use of handbook tables and formulas: Five hundred examples and test questions on the application of tables, formulas and general data in Machinery's Handbook, by John Milton Amiss, Franklin D. Jones and a great selection of related books, art and collectibles available now at AbeBooks.com.



					www.abebooks.com


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## Aaron_W (Aug 4, 2019)

Flyinfool said:


> With all of the editions of the Machinery Handbook, do they ever remove info, or just keep adding more as new technology develops?



They have added a lot over the years, 1st edition was 1400 pages, and the current 30th is 2800 pages, so it has doubled in size during the past 100 years (mostly thinner paper, rather than thicker book) but they have also had to eliminate a lot of information.

My 14th edition (1953) has sections for blacksmithing, forging and hand tools that are not in my 24th edition (1992). I'm sure very early editions had a lot more info about (now) obsolete fasteners that were more commonly found in use at the time.


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## Flyinfool (Aug 5, 2019)

So I guess I need an assortment of vintages.........


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## Bob Korves (Aug 5, 2019)

Flyinfool said:


> So I guess I need an assortment of vintages.........


Any of them will work for you.  If you work on lots of antique stuff or with classic methods, get an old one.  If you are more into cutting edge stuff, CNC, etc, then get a newer one.  Or, get more than one.  They are available at low prices if you look around.  I have a 1st edition reprint which is cool just for the reading, a different time but machinists were just as clever and smart...


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## macardoso (Aug 5, 2019)

I have the 29th edition which I reference quite frequently. Its a pretty interesting read from cover to cover too! 

Old ones are good but have a lot of information on older equipment which doesn't apply to what I'm doing. I mostly use the threading tables which will be in every edition. If you like anything CNC, you'll want the most up to date one you can find


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## Janderso (Aug 5, 2019)

Just picked up a brand new 19th for free and a 13th for cheap.
The Black book is a handy reference.
Bob, i'd like to see the heat treat section of your first edition. That sounds like a good time!


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## projectnut (Aug 5, 2019)

GunsOfNavarone said:


> Evening gents! There are many versions of the M.H. And would like to get some advice on a version.
> "Toolbox", "Guide" and there even be some good arguments on versions previous to the latest (30th?)
> I see digital copies available, that sounds appealing, but something about a handbook draws me in. Truth be told, the oldest version I can find calls to me too, I love vintage tools....I know t he meat is unchanged, but there probably plenty that has changed.
> Cheers



Many good answers so far, but keep in mind the Machinery's Handbook is meant to be a reference for the professional.  The information is pertinent to the tooling, techniques, and machinery in use at the time it was written.  As with all reference books the content changes over time.  Each edition adds new material, and deletes material deemed to be obsolete.

I have over a dozen copies from a reprint of the original to the 29th edition.  I do have a couple digital copies as well, but like you I much prefer the printed versions.  The earlier editions have information about fasteners and tooling used at the turn of the 20th century, with very little information regarding metrics either threading, measuring, or tooling.  The 29th edition has a considerable amount of information on metric sizing and threading, as well as information relating to CNC programing, setup, and techniques.

The machines in my shop range in age from the early 1900's to the late 1980's.  Some of the versions were originally purchased to identify threads and fasteners for the older machines.  In many cases I used the information to recreate original fasteners rather than change them over to more modern versions.  Since all my machines are manual I tend to use the 12th through the 22nd versions most frequently.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Aug 14, 2019)

Project nut, you may have hit.the nail on the head....that the M.H. Is meant to be a reference for the professional. I now have the 30th version, and there is handy info for the beginner as well, but yeah, much is over my pay scale...


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## Bob Korves (Aug 14, 2019)

GunsOfNavarone said:


> Project nut, you may have hit.the nail on the head....that the M.H. Is meant to be a reference for the professional. I now have the 30th version, and there is handy info for the beginner as well, but yeah, much is over my pay scale...


There is no such thing as too much information.  Sorting it and using it is the job of the user, not of the supplier.


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