# Can we talk about retirement?



## Janderso

In a few months I'll be 64. I just looked at my Social Security statement. 
They have full retirement at 66 and 6 months.
There is a benefits slide gadget that lets you dial in the anticipated month of retirement.
Example, if I retire at 65 and 6 months, the difference is <$245 a month. If I retire a year early, I will receive $31,500 I would not have received if I wait another year.
You all know where I'm going. It would take 11 years to break even for the amount I received for the one year of early retirement.
Since this is supplemental to our overall retirement plan, it's looking pretty tempting.

Did you go out early? Do you regret it?
Do you wish you went out early?
Are you thinking along my same lines?
Am I an idiot for thinking to go out early

I know many of you are retired, I'd like to talk about it.
Thanks,
Jeff


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## mickri

I had to take mine early do to losing a huge share of my savings in the 2009 market crash.  No choice but also no regrets.  I did the same break even calculations that you did and held out as long as I could.  Some of my friends did those calculations and decided to wait till they were 70 before taking SS.  Sadly one friend came down with cancer in his early 70's and died shortly thereafter.  I have other friends who took it as soon as they could.

My thought is that if you don't need it to live on then wait as long as you can.  This has to be tempered against the typical longevity of your parents and grandparents and your current health.


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## Winegrower

I don’t think relying solely on SS income yields the lifestyle ”to which we are accustomed”.   I suggest in one’s last few years of income producing work, you try to get some additional form of income that is as inflation resistant as possible.   For me, it’s income producing real estate.   If it takes working longer to be able to make such investments, well, at least your SS payments will be higher when you can pull the trigger.   Maybe a side bet in precious metals is also a good idea.


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## Papa Charlie

Still working, but I have a rather elaborate spreadsheet that helps me calculate the best options and how long my money will last.
Currently, based on my 401's current state for 2020, I won't retire for another 1.5-2 years. Even At that, I will not take SS until I reach 67-4mo. My spreadsheet helps me calculate the value by month so plenty of games to take into account.

It took some time to gather all the information, including how my retirement income would be affected by state taxes. Every state and county deals with 401's, pensions and SS differently. A real eye opener for running the numbers. I had my CPA do the math on the taxes for me. Not straight forward by any means. The biggest shock was the cost of medical even with Medicare. $144 per person, per month for medicare, then there is the medicare supplements and possible out of pocket expenses.

You can log onto the SS website and once you sign in. There is a table that shows the amount of SS you get as a percentage of the fully vested value, which for me is 66-4 months. Before that it goes down by about 0.55% per month that you take early and it goes up by 0.7% per month the longer I wait. Don't know if these percentages are common or just mine.

Also, add into your numbers your wifes. She will get a percentage of yours. If she waits until she is fully vested then she will get 50% of yours or vice versa if you so choose. But if she takes it before the values will change either up or down. Sadly, if she waits later than when she is fully vested it won't go up any higher than 50% of yours at the time you take it. So the longer you wait the more her contribution will be.


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## Stonebriar

I retired at 63. I am VERY happy I left early.  MY company covered medical until Medicare took over. Now they just pay the supplemental, so I didn't have to worry about medical coverage. I didn't take social security until age 66, my age target. I used 401K money to supplement the company pension. Now I take the social security and don't take any 401K money.  My company pension covers all of my expenses.

You are smart for leaving early as possible. The time FLIES after retirement. You can't buy more time. I think the early years are the best quality years we may have after retirement.

So if it is just a supplement to your plan I say go for it.


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## Nogoingback

Janderso said:


> In a few months I'll be 64. I just looked at my Social Security statement.
> They have full retirement at 66 and 6 months.
> There is a benefits slide gadget that lets you dial in the anticipated month of retirement.
> Example, if I retire at 65 and 6 months, the difference is <$245 a month. If I retire a year early, I will receive $31,500 I would not have received if I wait another year.
> You all know where I'm going. It would take 11 years to break even for the amount I received for the one year of early retirement.
> Since this is supplemental to our overall retirement plan, it's looking pretty tempting.
> 
> Did you go out early? Do you regret it?
> Do you wish you went out early?
> Are you thinking along my same lines?
> Am I an idiot for thinking to go out early
> 
> I know many of you are retired, I'd like to talk about it.
> Thanks,
> Jeff



I retired two years ago when I turned 65.  Since I was forced to retire I had no choice in the matter, but one consideration
I hadn't anticipated was the cost of health insurance.  I'm on medicare of course, but my wife is 4 years younger than
I am and our son is still in school and needs insurance as well.  The best deal initially was COBRA, which lasts 18 months.
Since then we've had to pay for insurance  from the market.  The cost of both  has been simply unbelievable.  Fortunately, our finances
are such that we can handle it until my wife gets medicare. Unless your wife works and can provide insurance for the two of you I STRONGLY suggest you take this into consideration.


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## Papa Charlie

Nogoingback said:


> I retired two years ago when I turned 65.  Since I was forced to retire I had no choice in the matter, but one consideration
> I hadn't anticipated was the cost of health insurance.  I'm on medicare of course, but my wife is 4 years younger than
> I am and our son is still in school and needs insurance as well.  The best deal initially was COBRA, which lasts 18 months.
> Since then we've had to pay for insurance  from the market.  The cost has been simply unbelievable.  Fortunately, our finances
> are such that we can handle it until my wife gets medicare. *Unless your wife works and can provide insurance for you, I STRONGLY suggest you take this into consideration.*



Fully agree, Also, if you are covered under her insurance as part of her benefit package, you can defer Medicare until she reaches retirement. They will require you to provide a form filled out by her company, if she qualifies for this under her company, that you provide to SS to prevent any penalties. 

There is a lot to digest in the retirement subject. I would highly recommend picking up a phone and talking to someone at SS about it and get the facts directly. They were very helpful for me. I will be deferring Medicare while I am still employed at Boeing. But will need to get that form and submit before I retire so prevent healthy penalties.


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## NC Rick

Janderso said:


> In a few months I'll be 64. I just looked at my Social Security statement.
> They have full retirement at 66 and 6 months.
> There is a benefits slide gadget that lets you dial in the anticipated month of retirement.
> Example, if I retire at 65 and 6 months, the difference is <$245 a month. If I retire a year early, I will receive $31,500 I would not have received if I wait another year.
> You all know where I'm going. It would take 11 years to break even for the amount I received for the one year of early retirement.
> Since this is supplemental to our overall retirement plan, it's looking pretty tempting.
> 
> Did you go out early? Do you regret it?
> Do you wish you went out early?
> Are you thinking along my same lines?
> Am I an idiot for thinking to go out early
> 
> I know many of you are retired, I'd like to talk about it.
> Thanks,
> Jeff


Jeff,
am about a year ahead of you and am a notorious poor planner.  I haven't tried to do calculations because I don't know all the denominators  
I work for me and I like my boss and my job.  I put off thinking about it but will likely jump in on the prescribed date.  With company restructuring I can likely "consult" and keep things going.  I feel so fortunate that when I wake up, I look forward to my day.  If I were doing my previous job it would be very different.  I'm not sure I would be as healthy and happy as I am now.  It seems to me, as important as monetary lifestyle management is, it can pale in comparison to other lifestyle choices.  We all do the best we can.  Making lots of money has never been my strength.


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## Janderso

My wife is a retired teacher, she has been receiving her pension for three years and is 65. She now has the medicare supplement. So much better than my insurance!
I won't consider retiring until I'm 65 and receiving medicare with the supplement.
We went to london a couple years ago. Touring that city takes two good legs. I get it about retiring young enough to be physically fit to enjoy a little traveling. We have a travel trailer that never gets used-no time.
My wife is really looking forward to having me home.
It's all coming together. We have been planning on retirement and saving for over 30 years.
I see so many co-workers that don't take it seriously. 
I trust my Edward Jones guy. We meet twice a year. I max out my Roth and have been putting 15% of my paycheck into my 401K for a very long time.
Between my wife's pension and our savings, I hope we have planned well.
Our CPA says we will be in good shape, just don't go on any world tours or buy a yacht


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## RJSakowski

I did some checking on the various social security options.  It turns out that the break even point across the board is age 85.  If you expect to live longer than 85, you will be better off waiting for the maximum benefit.  If you don't think you will make it to 85, take the benefits earlier.

 I took my social security at age 70 and enjoy an 8%/year increase because of that.  I retired at 69 and my particular financial situation allowed me to delay social security.

In my case, my wife is fourteen years my junior and will most likely live long past my 85th birthday.  Also since she immigrated from the UK some 22 years ago and retired early, her social security benefit will be minimal and she will be better off taking social security as a survivor.

Another overlooked consideration is medical insurance.  If you retire before age 65 and Medicare elegibility, the cost is dear.  My wife retired at 54 and has to buy independent insurance.  Her annual cost for an HSA plan is between $6K and $7K and the insurance won't pay one dime until she reaches an annual deductible of $7K.  (They do pay for an annual physical and provide some discounts for medication).  At least with the AFA, she is covered for preexisting conditions but that may disappear.


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## ArmyDoc

Janderso said:


> In a few months I'll be 64. I just looked at my Social Security statement.
> They have full retirement at 66 and 6 months.
> There is a benefits slide gadget that lets you dial in the anticipated month of retirement.
> Example, if I retire at 65 and 6 months, the difference is <$245 a month. If I retire a year early, I will receive $31,500 I would not have received if I wait another year.
> You all know where I'm going. It would take 11 years to break even for the amount I received for the one year of early retirement.
> Since this is supplemental to our overall retirement plan, it's looking pretty tempting.
> 
> Did you go out early? Do you regret it?
> Do you wish you went out early?
> Are you thinking along my same lines?
> Am I an idiot for thinking to go out early
> 
> I know many of you are retired, I'd like to talk about it.
> Thanks,
> Jeff


One thing to keep in mind - Retiring from the job you are at does not mean you have to retire all together.  If you can go to a different job, or just make it for a year, you can still delay collecting from SS for a year, or more.


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## samstu

As an investment advisor once said - "you can retire anytime.  Do you like mac and cheese or do you like lobster".  In short retirement is all about planning.  I did what is now known as "FIRE" with a highly motivated wife and we were done before age 50.  And have never looked back. I could tell you about multiple jobs, 7 days a week, etc but you get it.

My parents each died before they quit working despite have the means to retire.

I your case, I would advise retirement if you can keep financial goals.   It's all about planning and sticking to it.


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## mmcmdl

Great timing on this thread Jeff . I'm following along as I'm in the same predicament as to thinking retiring early .


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## Aaron_W

I don't know why but from an early age retirement and benefits have been very important to me. Neither of my parents or any of the adults I grew up around claim to have been the source, although both my parents had state jobs with good benefits and retirement as did many of their friends. Since nobody has taken credit for this drive to retire well, I guess I'll just put it down to I don't like working. 

That can't be it, because if that was true then I've made a mess of it by working a lot. Even in retirement I keep going back to work, what an idiot.


Like you I also started putting money away from the start of my career, 10% at first, then 15% and the last few years I was doing 20%. I discovered that this actually has two benefits, one of which I've never heard mentioned. The obvious is you have a sack full of money for retirement. The second, is you have been living that far under your salary, which brings you closer to your post-retirement income. The last 5 years or so I was only  living on 80% of my pre-tax salary, and our youngest son was only a few years old, so my wife wasn't working for much of that time. Admittedly money was pretty tight there for a bit, but we are frugal by nature.

Take away all the SSDI, retirement contributions and other deductions that they don't take out of retirement income, and add in the hidden costs of working like driving 50 miles a day and I found I wasn't actually bringing home much less than when I was working. We have a 6 year old so with me home my wife was able to go from part time to full time at the hospital. We are actually doing better financially since I retired than almost any other time since we've been married (21 years at the end of the month).

Retirement does not suck, I just wish I could find more time to enjoy it. My supposed to be part time retirement gig supporting fires has kicked my butt this year, I just added up my hours and I've worked just short of 1000 hours in 115 days. I'm supposed to be free after this weekend, come on rain!



You are describing the never ending debate over take SS as early as possible or wait for the maximum benefit. The pro side is, that is money you get that will take years to catch up and money you get if you die before reaching the next break point. In my case full retirement age is 67, so I can get five years at 70% vs waiting until I'm 67 for 100%. If I wait until I'm 70 I can get 124%.

I have always been taught to take the money and run with it, unless you need the higher monthly benefit to live on (in which case something probably went wrong in your retirement plans). Working between 62 and your full retirement age does have some impact on the decision due to annual earning limitations. Having a spouse with a limited work history, a much younger spouse or young dependent children in the house is also something to consider, as their survivor benefits will be impacted by when you start your benefit. It doesn't sound like any of those are a factor for you.


It is something of an academic problem for me. I have a firefighter retirement, and they like to get us out fairly young so they don't end up paying line of duty death benefits (job related medical deaths have a sharp increase after age 50, and go vertical after 60). Part of my retirement is an offset equal to 50% of my SS benefit @ 62. At 62 this supplement goes away so I either find another source of income (work  ) or start drawing SS at that time. I also got to keep my medical into retirement, so medicare is also not a factor for me.


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## mksj

In many cases it depends if it is ones sole source of revenue or you have difference sources, if you plan to fully retire and/or you have another source of income. I turned 65 and haven't taken SS yet, but will probably start it next year before I turn 66. You also need to factor in that if you do take SS early then you will not be drawing from other retirement sources and you will earn some additional income off of that and it will grow. One also needs to factor in ones health, family history and also COVID. These days I would rather have the money sooner than later. Other individuals I know that are married, the wife had a pension and took SS at the normal retirement age, and the husband waited until he was 70 to take his, getting 7% return/year is pretty decent these days. So everyone is different.

As far as Medicare, it is a slippery slope understanding the different plans, supplemental insurance and Medicare Advantage. Medicare Advantage looks attractive upfront, but I would caution people to fully understand what one is giving up. Under Medicare Advantage, you sign up with a provider that operates as a Health Maintenance Organization (HMO), as such you are limited to their providers and their treatment centers, in addition they have their own covered services, and some treatment's may not be paid for that would have been paid by regular Medicare.  The HMO typically only serve a particular geographic area, where Medicare is anywhere in the US. Had a friend who enrolled in Medicare Advantage and had to get cardiac ablative therapy for an arrhythmia, didn't go so well and ended up in the hospital overnight. The HMO would not cover some of the procedures and he was facing 5K in costs that would have been covered under standard Medicare. He was able to switch back to regular Medicare because there is a grace period when you first sign up for Medicare Advantage.  Once you have signed up for Medicare Advantage, there can be some issues going back to regular Medicare and you want to get a supplemental insurance, they are not obligated to sign you up and they can deny a preexisting illness. So do not be so quick to sign up for a Medicare Advantage program until you speak to an advisor that gives you the full picture.








						Use caution when ditching your Advantage Plan for original Medicare
					

If part of your intention is to get a Medigap policy when you make the switch, be aware that your coverage could be delayed or denied altogether if you have a pre-existing condition.




					www.cnbc.com
				





			https://www.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article219768195.html


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## Aaron_W

Something else to consider, California does not tax SS income.


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## NCjeeper

I retired at 53yo. I get my monthly pension from the state and I get a weekly supplement from my employer (until I turn 62). I will be filing for my SS when I hit 62. I have been working since I was 13yo. I have had 2 sometimes 3 jobs at a time and working 7 days a week. It was weird at first to not have a job to go to, but after awhile the being retired thing sunk in and I am so glad I can do anything I want at anytime. It is nice to enjoy life because basically I am 2/3rds dead with only about a 1/3rd of my life left.


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## Aaron_W

NCjeeper said:


> I retired at 53yo. I get my monthly pension from the state and I get a weekly supplement from my employer (until I turn 62). I will be filing for my SS when I hit 62. I have been working since I was 13yo. I have had 2 sometimes 3 jobs at a time and working 7 days a week. It was weird at first to not have a job to go to, but after awhile the being retired thing sunk in and I am so glad I can do anything I want at anytime. It is nice to enjoy life because basically I am 2/3rds dead with only about a 1/3rd of my life left.



My goal is to have government assassins coming after me in about 80 years because they are tired of paying me just to have fun.


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## mmcmdl

My job sucks along with the shift I'm on .  If I could find that dream job I could continue on , but for now it's working 12-14 hour weekend nights and holidays .


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## middle.road

"" *Can we talk about retirement?* ""
Nah, I rather not...
No one in my family ever believe in the importance of carrying insurance or planning a pension.
I hammered the opposite into my boys and I tried to practice the same.
Didn't quite go as planned.
I was/am vested in (3) plans. 
One of the plans was a company sponsored plan. Well the company got bought out and the 'buyers' were allowed to raid the pension, emptied it out,  and shutdown the company. I didn't work there that long but the folks who had 20-40 years there lost everything.
Then comes the class-action suit(s) and the only people who get any money are the lawyers. . .

The other two were suppose to provide health care when you retire. Guess what changed January 2020?
And on one of the final two, I can't get a 'balance' until I submit my retirement plans.
I guess in hindsight I should have gone for 401K's instead of company sponsored plans.
Seems like those of us born after the mid '50s are subject to a changing landscape when it comes to retirement.
A good friend put in 30 years at the company where I only put in 11. 
He just retired in the past year. When we hired in there was one heck of a nice retirement medical plan promised. That is no longer the case.
He has had to scramble to keep health insurance.
I remember all those old 'guys' I've worked with over the years who were still working because they got bored (or the wife ordered them out of the house...) and talked about the fantastic retirement plans they had from their former employers, full medical, great pension, etc.
I wish that were still the case. Maybe it is for some.


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## JohnG

I was laid off at 58, went back to work at 63, worked until I was 66, and am now 70.  We'd over planned for retirement and experienced no hardship because of this.
Lots of people could give you better financial advice than I could, but I can tell you about life experience.  Turning into a couch potato when you retire will kill you.  If you plan on a long and active retirement you have to deliberately re-invent yourself after a lifetime of work.  It's trickier and more work than you might think.  If you put it off too long, you may not have the energy or imagination to do it well.  I am healthier, happier, and a better machinist at 70 because I had those years when I was 60ish, more spry, and sharper mentally than I am today.  
So, if you think of retirement as just an extended vacation, put it off.  If it's going to be a new life, go for it.
Also, your wife may say now she would like you at home; but she may reconsider that after a while.  My workshop is essential for my marriage.


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## Janderso

mmcmdl said:


> Great timing on this thread Jeff . I'm following along as I'm in the same predicament as to thinking retiring early .


You deserve it Dave, You've been burning the candle at both ends for too long. 
We all need to stay healthy to enjoy those golden years.


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## Janderso

JohnG said:


> My workshop is essential for my marriage.


I plan on spending plenty of time out in my shop.

Glenda won't let me sit on my ass, she is very active and expects me to be as well. Couch potato, I've never been happy sitting still.
I agree 100% with what you are saying!! Good advice.

Spending has to come to a crawl when I retire. I have this need to acquire what I need now. I will be very reluctant to touch retirement funds.


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## mmcmdl

I have a few offers working with a neighbor Jeff . Going out to different companies in the area and doing some special project work as needed . I'm seriously considering this now . My job is not in jeopardy but I can't get off this dumb arse shift because they can't find a replacement .


Off to work for another 13 hour night ………………………...


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## erikmannie

I am 54. I can retire in a month with a full pension, but I am going to try & hang on until I am 65. 

My wife is 59 & works at home. She pretty much insists that I work until age 65 because of all our expenses & consumer debt.

I’m going to try to pay off a big lathe and mill before I retire.


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## randyjaco

I retired a 59. As soon as eligible I took my social security, not because I needed the money, but because I paid in and wanted to get some return. The true difference in the money is not that great. You still can't live on the full amount. You had better have something already in the piggy bank. As someone else stated, I calculate my break-even point was 85. I am still a long way from 85  
The system is not sustainable, but if the money runs out I don't want to depend on Washington to make things right.


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## addertooth

I am the odd man out here.  I rather enjoy working.  I get bored easily when there is nothing to do. And I DO have retirement plans (they don't include staring into space).   While I am earning good pay, I am building up the tooling and materials to perform some of my profitable hobbies.   One of the advantages of being an older guy, is crafts/skills which once had competition to worry about, has literally seen the generation which know those skills die off with time.   There are many crafts which make rather good money (due to few people knowing how to do it), but can have some steep up-front equipment costs.  While I am at the peak of my earning, those tools are being purchased.  I may stop working my "day job" when I hit 70, but my other crafts/works will continue; likely my income will remain the same (or go up).  I hate being idle; I DO like looking at what has been accomplished at the end of the day.   The thought of RVing does not stir my soul.  The other piece of the pie is that my parents are still alive; we tend to live to a rather active and old age in my family.   I have had relatives who were living on their own, past age 105.


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## pdentrem

Same point as you. I talked with my financial advisor for his thoughts. He said that originally he would of stated take it now as the future is not known. Currently here in Canada the hit is 36% less at 60 with 6% added back per year that one waits. After 65, it is 6% added to a max of 36% at 70. 
Now he suggests retire when you want as you live on your savings, if one has any, and claim the pension later.
I will have to make a decision at some point, but not for a year or two if my health stays good.
Pierre


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## Reddinr

My wife semi-retired in June.  I planned on retiring this year too but with Covid, there's no place to travel really so I decided to take on another consulting job that will take me through Q1 2021.  We're 58/60 years old.   With our 401Ks in pretty good shape, we plan to wait for SS until 68 or 70.  It works for us but we've been lucky with 401K plans etc.  Each year you wait is a gain of about 8% in income.  It is like a guaranteed annuity with a fairly large return.  There are a few variables that we can't know like when we will die, what SS will look like 20 years from now, what income taxes will be later on etc.  It is really hard to come up with a one size fits all plan for taking SS.  It also makes a difference too if the major earner dies first.  Waiting can leave the spouse with more to live on.

There are a couple of spreadsheet tools available.  One I use is called Neurosphere.  I found it on the Bogleheads forum.  They're a .org.   BTW, if you are still investing, the Bogleheads is a great place to train yourself on the ins and outs of simple, low cost/diversified fund investing.   Great retirement advice, and general advice too.  I learned years ago to stop giving my money to the financial advisors.  That's a losing game.  They provide very little benefit and by the time it is over they have peeled a huge chunk off of your nest egg.  There's also a pretty great retirement planning tool called "Flexible Retirement Planner".  If you like noodling around with the numbers, it is a good, and free tool.

I'm not affiliated with any of the above.  I just have found those tools very useful.


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## Karl_T

I farm for a living. Started collecting SS at 62, kept working. Milady did the same. Now we are both on medicare, never had it so good - cheap health insurance.Obama care was killing us before that.

Now we have certainly slowed down on the farm - no sense earning money just to get it taxed away. Obama care was the worst. It was a reverse tax for self employed. We dropped 1/2 our business instead of paying both income and health care tax.


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## pdentrem

Finances aside, a thought came up in rereading the response. Health and capabilities. A doctor friend has mentioned a few times, hint hint nudge nudge, once over 75, ones mobility starts to decline for the majority of people. Take trips and higher energy activities sooner than later. 
Pierre


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## savarin

I had planned to retire at 60 and couldnt wait to go but the financial crisis postponed that for two years so I retired at 62. (72 now)
The education sector I was in started pushing early retirement so I jumped fast.
Having always had many hobbies and interests I had insufficient time for all them (I still don't)
I retired with 2 others from my department and I had always stated that if you want to retire you MUST have other interests else you will sit there and die.
One thought sitting in his boat everyday fishing would see him through, it didnt, he died within two years. The other went back to full time work within 6 months because he was bored and is still working part time.
I wanted to go early as we still wanted to travel while we still could handle it, an excellent decision, France, UK, USA, Canada, Singapore, Philippines, Japan, China, still want to get to Korea but not till covid settles down.
<Political rant bit>
The visit to china was an eye opener, the average Joe is the same in every country we have visited, they just want to get on with life and provide for their families. The people were very friendly and helpful but the authorities were a total pain.
In general it is the leaders not the people who cause all the problems.
<end rant>
We planned to self support our retirement with a couple of investments and they worked well along with the compulsory pension funds.
The state pension added to our income when we hit 65 but due to our self funded income is very small.
In Australia we are very lucky with our health system so do not have to worry about health insurance unless we want to.
Hospital visits or emergencies $0, doctors visits $0, Medications very small $, I'm type 2 diabetic and all my meds are subsidised.
I drifted off subject a bit there so I will just reiterate You must have other interests if you wish to survive retirement and take the travel as early as possible.
Good luck.
ps.
Retirees who used to state - "I dont know how I used to get anything done when I was working as I'm so busy now"
Now I do this.


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## T Bredehoft

I retired at 62. We discussed waiting until 65 and 4 months, but I was ready to retire and did so. What I hadn't counted on was the $230,000 profit sharing my employer dumped on me. It and SS have made the last 20 years pretty soft. Cancer took my wife last Feb, SS went down, I'd rather have her than her SS, but   it's not to be. I figure to get by another 10 years or so.  Life's still good, I play in my shop most days, some days profitably, other just for fun. And I won't die broke.


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## Janderso

Reddinr said:


> My wife semi-retired in June.  I planned on retiring this year too but with Covid, there's no place to travel really so I decided to take on another consulting job that will take me through Q1 2021.  We're 58/60 years old.   With our 401Ks in pretty good shape, we plan to wait for SS until 68 or 70.  It works for us but we've been lucky with 401K plans etc.  Each year you wait is a gain of about 8% in income.  It is like a guaranteed annuity with a fairly large return.  There are a few variables that we can't know like when we will die, what SS will look like 20 years from now, what income taxes will be later on etc.  It is really hard to come up with a one size fits all plan for taking SS.  It also makes a difference too if the major earner dies first.  Waiting can leave the spouse with more to live on.
> 
> There are a couple of spreadsheet tools available.  One I use is called Neurosphere.  I found it on the Bogleheads forum.  They're a .org.   BTW, if you are still investing, the Bogleheads is a great place to train yourself on the ins and outs of simple, low cost/diversified fund investing.   Great retirement advice, and general advice too.  I learned years ago to stop giving my money to the financial advisors.  That's a losing game.  They provide very little benefit and by the time it is over they have peeled a huge chunk off of your nest egg.  There's also a pretty great retirement planning tool called "Flexible Retirement Planner".  If you like noodling around with the numbers, it is a good, and free tool.
> 
> I'm not affiliated with any of the above.  I just have found those tools very useful.


Reddinr 
I appreciate the information, good resources.
I don’t have the confidence to take this on myself, yes the advisers get a piece for sure.
I have had such good results from the advice we have received from our CPA/Investment advisor, I depend on his guidance.


----------



## Janderso

T Bredehoft said:


> I retired at 62. We discussed waiting until 65 and 4 months, but I was ready to retire and did so. What I hadn't counted on was the $230,000 profit sharing my employer dumped on me. It and SS have made the last 20 years pretty soft. Cancer took my wife last Feb, SS went down, I'd rather have her than her SS, but   it's not to be. I figure to get by another 10 years or so.  Life's still good, I play in my shop most days, some days profitably, other just for fun. And I won't die broke.


Sorry to hear about your life partner.


----------



## 7milesup

So many good and varied responses.
Everyone's idea of when to retire and what retirement will look like is as different as each individual.
I was forced to retire early from my flying career due to a medical issue.  It was one of the worst times of my life.  Not only did I lose my career that I spent my entire life building, but I lost my identity.  I was no longer Neil the pilot but Neil the... what?  What was I?  It was horrible.
I was just chatting with my good friend that still works for my company that I worked for and we were talking about retirement.  He is 51-ish.  When he retires he will have over 3 million in his 401k.  He wanted to know if I thought it was going to be enough (he was serious).  Unless he is going to collect Maserati's or McLarens, I told him he would be fine, but the point is that everyone has different expectations for their retirement.
I just moved all my investments from Schwab last week to Vanguard.  I like the personal touch they offer, along with not having the huge cash drag that Schwab does. The guy at Schwab was not nice to me on my departure.  I will never go back.
I have a "guaranteed" income until I am age 67 (I will be 55 next month).  
I flew with guys that were 70 (no age limit in the private sector) and the main reason they were still flying were...1.) no other hobbies.  2.) 4 different wives over the years and trying to pay them all off.
Jeff, you have hobbies (I think we all do on here, otherwise why would we be on here? LOL).  You will stay busy.
I have too many hobbies, that can be a problem too.  LOL

Keep this in mind....  We are not promised tomorrow.  Enjoy today.
I had a friend retire at the first of the year.  He passed away last Tuesday night from Luekemia.  He was 63.  Did I mention, enjoy today?


----------



## mmcmdl

What's this talk of profit sharing , pensions , vacation time etc everyone is speaking of ?


----------



## pdentrem

We had profit sharing until a regime change, the new owners keep it all for themselves nowadays. No pensions except government version and what you make for yourself, ie Registered Retirement Savings Plan in Canada, IRA and Roth IRA in USA etc. Vacation is the only benefit where they have been generous and I use them to the fullest.
Pierre


----------



## mmcmdl

Schedule for this and next month has me working right thru all the holidays . Thanksgiving , Christmas and New Years . Weds , Thurs , Fri , Sat nights at 13 hrs per night . Ain't it sweet ? 

Our group of skilled mechanics , electricians and machinists had a drawn out meeting stating we had to do more as we are absorbing the other plant which is shutting down . We all just looked at each other like , what else do you expect ? Managers are stating that this plant could be next , which makes sense . We are the only one out of four that is left !  I think it's in the very near future that this place won't be around as our entire group is at retirement age and have the skills to move on as necessary .

I personally feel the weight is on these managers who will be losing their cushy positions . We'll see in the near future .


----------



## Grandpop

Jeff,
 like your situation, my wife retired 2.5 years ago from 25 years of teaching. With only 25 years, not a great pension, but an ok pension. She turns 65 next month so had to dump her state medical for medicare. Not planning to take SS till 66 4 months, her full benefit. Between her state pension and her 403B she does ok without SS. Her total medicare with copays will likely be $700/month. She has medical issues which will likely have her in a wheelchair within next 10 years. 

Also like you, she does want me home retired now with her. I hope she will be able to be happy when I actually do join her ful time.

I turned 62 last week and still work. I have had my 401 maxed out for last 20 years, and have no debt. I have spent a lot of time planning my finances in Excel to try to figure out when to stop working, when to start SS, and which accounts to live off prior to taking SS. Current plan was stop working at end of 2021, but 401 account had a minor hiccup this year, so isn't looking like it will not have the balance I was projecting at end 2021.

SS figures out to be same payout total at your projected life expectancy, which is 82 for me. Was planning on waiting for my full benefit at 66-8 months.

Since life is indeed short, I do not plan to change my planned retirement date. We will make do with whatever money we have at that point. We had not planned on any major retirement purchases, but did plan on more international travel in retirement. After this year, that will change. Didn't think she ever would consider it, but we are now planning for a motorhome purchase next year and cancelling our international travel for a few years anyway.  Not planning for full-timing, but maybe a 3 month trip a year plus some short ones. If our health and bodies last, maybe we be able to RV and international travel both. Due to unplanned expenses of the RV, I may take SS at 65 to have some extra cash.

The point of plans is that give us peace of mind to think that we have control of our futures. I have been known to plan. Life frequently laughs at all of our plans, and forces a direction that was never even considered. Nobody plans to get ill, or loose a spouse shortly after retirement starts, yet it happens too often. If I have learned anything about plans in my 62 years, I hope it is that the only plan that matters is I now plan to spend as much time as I can together with my wife. Meaning I plan to make as many new memories together as possible. Money, travel, some level of financial freedom, all these are just extras and not really that important compared to time together and memories.

Good luck with your decisions, they are truly different for all of us.
Ted


----------



## 7milesup

Oh, another thing.. 
Keep in mind that there will be changes to your relationship.  It IS different to be around your spouse 24/7 compared to when you were working.  Takes some time to adjust.
All of a sudden I was home 24/7 compared to being gone half of my life.  YIKES.  Marriage almost didn't make it that first year.  Huge change for me when I discovered, to my horror, that I was no longer the captain.  In fact, I think she relegated me to lav service duty.


----------



## maspann

Well, it certainly looks like you have received plenty of opinions and data. As the benefits people in my previous company said, it all depends on when you and your wife plan to die.... I retired last year at 65. I don't plan on taking SS until age 70. The men in my family die around age 85 after a week in the hospital. Age 85 is the break even point between taking SS now and taking it at 70. So, it is a gamble for me as it is for everyone. I don't need the additional income now, so I will get a pay raise in 4 years. I am loving retirement and I hope you do as well! Good luck!!


----------



## mmcmdl

So as it is , I went to the doc last week regarding this situation of expected life expectency . (sp)

He stated " this depends on many things such as family history and lifestyle lived " He then asked me a few simple questions ..........

" Do you smoke fine cigars " ? I answered NEVER
" How often do you indulge in good beer and whiskey "  I answered only once in my entire life "
" Do you stay out all night and party with strangers till the wee hours " ? I answered uh , no .
" How often do you get out on the golf course and play 36 holes " ? I replied , I don't play golf . So whatcha think doc ? Will I live till I'm 85 ?


He answered ......................" why would you want to " ?  Smartarse .


----------



## Aukai

I took my SS at my 66 full amount, and no repayment if exceeding 13-14K a year and still working. I stayed in 4 years longer than I wanted to keep income level. My SS, and my current 401 if I took it would give me my previous salary till my early 90s. Per my investment crew that is a 94% probability of being accurate. If I under stand the mumbo jumbo correctly


----------



## Reddinr

> They provide very little benefit and by the time it is over they have peeled a huge chunk off of your nest egg.



I think I understated things.  It is the case that many of the advisors do a great deal of harm to their customers.  Many (most?) are not in it for you.  Many put you into funds that cost you and pay them a commission.  It isn't uncommon that 1.5-3% or even more of your return gets siphoned off by "management fees" or fund expenses.  It is a huge chunk that some of them take.  Some of the fees are hidden from easy view.  2-3% sounds innocent enough but in the long run, the expenses compound your losses.  It isn't unheard of that half of your lifetime potential growth gets siphoned off.  I loved my advisor.  Friendly, "there for me", concerned about my life etc.  However he did worse than the market consistently and much worse after subtracting the fees.

It is never too late to fix it either.  For retirees, we might pull 4% per year out of our 401Ks for expenses so that the fund can last for maybe 30 years.  If your advisor charges 2%/Year, you can forget it lasting that long, unless you pull out quite a bit less (sorry, you only get ~2%/year) to cover the advisor costs.  This pays for the vague promise that they know how to make more money for you.  Several studies have shown over the years that in the long run the advisors do WORSE than average.

I was in the same boat years ago.  The investing lingo confused me and I was not interested in it anyway.  I was too busy with career and family.  I then got some advice from a former boss.  It turns out that it is not at all rocket science.  All it takes is a bit of reading and very easy changes to get huge benefits.  There are no guarantees for any investment.  The advisor funds go up and down and simple, low cost index funds go up and down.  The only guarantee is that with advisors, X% of your money never gets to you.

Sorry for the slightly off topic rant but for some reason I'm awake tonight, I've seen the light and like many converts I like to share.  Going back to bed now...


----------



## Aukai

I happen to have advisors that make a percentage of my total, 1% (.5% for TEFs)which is high, but I do not have time to deal with stocks.


----------



## Alcap

I just retired 2 weeks ago ( Oct 30 )  I'll be 62 next July ,  I'm looking at difference in waiting or taking it then but more so as a hedge against me dying before my wife ( she's 4 years younger ) it's  approximately 8% difference in each year waiting . My wife doesn't work anymore and has a very small 401k herself so we'll be using a combination of my pension ( which she would get 75% if I die ) , my 401k and my SS when we do take it . More then likely I'll take SS at 62 ,then  my plan would be use my pension and SS , if we need more $$ use some from the 401k . What I also would like to do is  a 401k to Roth IRA conversion each year as long as it would keep us in the current tax bracket  , 12% under $81k  without going to the next which would be 22%


----------



## Tozguy

JohnG said:


> My workshop is essential for my marriage.


Consider yourself fortunate to have the choice of when to retire. My job was phased out and there did not seem to be a lot of interest in hiring a 60 year old so I retired. Otherwise I would have continued in the work I enjoyed doing. I had seen enough over the years to not depend entirely on my employer or the government for my financial security.
At around age 55 my wife and I took a retirement planning course that was sponsored by our pension fund manager. It was very helpful in that the course dealt with all aspects of life during retirement. There is a broad range of things to consider as have been shown in this thread.
It was a psychological hurdle for me to go from earning income to living off my savings and investments.
Managing our finances has been a lifelong concern and it just continues on retirement. Financing retirement is not as bad as many advisors would have you think.
By far the best advice we were given was to have a project to retire TO something, as opposed to retiring FROM something. Have a plan or vision for what you want to do with your time (that does not upset you spouse) .


----------



## mmcmdl

Tozguy said:


> By far the best advice we were given was to have a project to retire TO something, as opposed to retiring FROM something.



Best advise on this subject . None of us could ever sit still and do nothing !


----------



## projectnut

Janderso said:


> In a few months I'll be 64. I just looked at my Social Security statement.
> They have full retirement at 66 and 6 months.
> There is a benefits slide gadget that lets you dial in the anticipated month of retirement.
> Example, if I retire at 65 and 6 months, the difference is <$245 a month. If I retire a year early, I will receive $31,500 I would not have received if I wait another year.
> You all know where I'm going. It would take 11 years to break even for the amount I received for the one year of early retirement.
> Since this is supplemental to our overall retirement plan, it's looking pretty tempting.
> 
> Did you go out early? Do you regret it?
> Do you wish you went out early?
> Are you thinking along my same lines?
> Am I an idiot for thinking to go out early
> 
> I know many of you are retired, I'd like to talk about it.
> Thanks,
> Jeff



I think it's a personal decision that has to include a number of factors.  Personally I did retire early and have thoroughly enjoyed it with no regrets.  The odd part was that "termination" date was a Friday, but at 7:00 AM on the following Monday the calls started coming in from head hunters asking me to be a "contractor" to perform exactly the same duties I had been doing as an employee.  I could have easily gone back to work for over double the money I was making, but with no benefits.  The jobs however were the ones I hated having to do even as an employee.  They included things like shutting down production facilities and distribution centers as well as moving production lines from one plant to another.  I had my share of that over the years and had no desire to repeat it.  Essentially it would have destroyed the relationship I had worked to build with co-workers for over 20 years.

My retirement at 57 was part of a buyout.  That's a bit of a misnomer in that the "buyout" added years of service to be used for calculating a pension, and a bonus added to the 401K.  I say misnomer in that neither of these benefits could be accessed until the age of 62 or the time you were eligible for Social Security.  Essentially we were on our own financially until these benefits kicked in.  At the time of Social Security/Medicare eligibility the funds could be accessed without penalty, but until that time the only financial assistance  was allowing the employees to continue purchasing health insurance with a small company subsidy. 

One thing available from our company in those days was the fact that at the time of Social Security eligibility we could personally take charge of our 401K, and take any pension due as a lump some.  Not knowing the future viability of the company, or the possibility that it could be sold almost all severed employees took advantage of that option.

Along with financial considerations you also need to include your families health and personal goals.  If you are reasonable healthy, would like to travel, have outside hobbies and interests you'd like to peruse, and don't have overwhelming financial obligations I would certainly take advantage the opportunity.  In my case it took nearly 2 years (along with travel and other fun activities) to complete a "honey do" list that had been accumulating for years.

The only downside (so far) to retirement is that all those relationships developed over the years are hard to maintain.  Many people have moved to be closer to relatives, or warmer climates, and sadly some have passed away.  There was a group that met weekly for breakfast at a local restaurant, but since the advent of Covid19  that's at least temporarily on hold.


----------



## Tozguy

mmcmdl said:


> Best advise on this subject . None of us could ever sit still and do nothing !


and tolerate other people trying to keep us busy.


----------



## 7milesup

Reddinr said:


> I think I understated things.  It is the case that many of the advisors do a great deal of harm to their customers.  Many (most?) are not in it for you.  Many put you into funds that cost you and pay them a commission.  It isn't uncommon that 1.5-3% or even more of your return gets siphoned off by "management fees" or fund expenses.



I appreciate your insight Reddinr.  I am going to look into some of your aforementioned information.
You mention 1.5-3% management fees.  Vanguards personal advisor services charges 0.3%, which is why I chose Vanguard, at least for now.  My personal limit has always been 1% total fees, whether it be for the fund itself or ancillary charges such as an advisor fee.


----------



## pdentrem

My dad had a broker who just about refused to buy stocks since there was no pay out to him versus mutual funds where dealers get 1/4 - 1/2% of the value per year. Dad switched shortly after that to my advisor and has not looked back.

There are financial planners and advisors who offer free consult and only charge for trades. I currently do about 4 trades a year as I realign the percentages with the dividends received. Yes now that the stocks are settled on, I could switch to a self trading low cost outfit but it is nice to talk to someone who has a view from the inside.

Here is an article that I saved years ago and found to be very informative and confirmed my thoughts on the type of investments that yielded best return over the long haul. The charts are missing as they become dated fairly quickly but the text is right on. We all know a guy who bought the rising star, boasted about the leap in value and later cried the blues when the stock returned to earth. You may recognize your broker‘s style or your own in one of the styles mentioned here.








						Six winning strategies to build your wealth - MoneySense
					

Looking for an investing strategy that really works? We can help.




					www.moneysense.ca
				




I also subscribe to this site and use their informational charts and pages.




__





						The Dividend Guy Blog - Unconventional Lifestyle and Dividend Growth Strategy
					

Unconventional Lifestyle and Dividend Growth Strategy




					www.thedividendguyblog.com
				




Pierre


----------



## Papa Charlie

T Bredehoft said:


> I retired at 62. We discussed waiting until 65 and 4 months, but I was ready to retire and did so. What I hadn't counted on was the $230,000 profit sharing my employer dumped on me. It and SS have made the last 20 years pretty soft. Cancer took my wife last Feb, SS went down, I'd rather have her than her SS, but   it's not to be. I figure to get by another 10 years or so.  Life's still good, I play in my shop most days, some days profitably, other just for fun. And I won't die broke.



Very sorry for your loss. My wife is my best friend.

We lost everything in 2008 and had to rebuild financially from scratch. I have been able to put a pretty good amount away, not as much as much as we would have had, so every resource will be needed for us to retire. Our future will also include a full house payment and all the regular bills that life hands us, not alone in this by any means. My shop will be a source for additional income and I may have to have a part time job at some point. My wife's health isn't the best and I want our last years to be in the country and to have the quality of life that we have dreamed of for so long.


----------



## projectnut

mmcmdl said:


> What's this talk of profit sharing , pensions , vacation time etc everyone is speaking of ?



It's a historical point of reference.  There was a time long long ago in a far away land where these "benefits" were offered to employees who managed through the daily harassment and whippings long enough to retire.  The amount varied from company to company, but was generally available should the company not go bankrupt and/or raid the fund for some nefarious purpose.  In many cases they were not a lucrative as you might think.  Hourly employees where I worked got a whopping $230.00 a month pension (and a gold pin) for a mere 35 years of service.

Those days are long gone.  Most companies ceased the activities with the advent of the 401K.  There were still a few of us that had accumulated a bit toward retirement before the practice was discontinued.  The company I worked for initialed the 401K in the late 1980's.  Those that had been there a minimum of 5 years still could still participate in the pension program.  The entire pension program was ended in 2000.  No company contributions to that benefit after Jan 1, 2000 regardless of the number of years of service.

Having said that it was a good place to work.  Hourly wages were excellent, but required discipline on the part of the employee to not spend every cent they took home.  Salaried employees benefits were better with merit and performance raises commensurate with accomplishments.  As with the hourly employees the pension benefits were minimal. 

I wouldn't want to calculate my salary in terms of an hourly wage.  There were so many 12 hour+ days I would be depressed to count them.  Then there were the 200+ days on the road, and the 100,000+ annual air travel miles.  There was however a feeling of accomplishment when a job was finished, and a newly designed machine was running far above expectations.  Would I do it all over again?  The answer is YES, in a heart beat.


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## pdentrem

Someone said that is too true. “Expect and prepare for the worst, and you will not be disappointed!”
Another one is “pay yourself not the bank” This applies to not using mutual funds and prepared service plans except when one is just starting up and don’t have a large account to buy the minimum 3 stocks - one bank, one electric company utility and one food supply company. One builds from here


----------



## ArmyDoc

The definition of Retirement is: to leave one's job and stop working.   But I don't like that definition.  

I think Retirement is to leave ones job, but I don't think you have to stop working.  To me, retirement is to leave your job and to enter a new phase of your life.  And I guess I'm more focused on what I am moving towards, than I am on what I am leaving behind.  Yes, when you retire, you leave your job, but what you do afterwards can be what ever you want it to be.

I've had 4 "careers".  During the years before and after college, I worked in several jobs - all of which were in someway connected to engineering. Then I joined the army and went to medical school.  So my next "career" was in the Army.  After the Army career, I spent 8 years working at a medical university, and now I work for the VA.  My reasons for leaving each job was a mix of not wanting to do what I was doing, and wanting to do the new job.  I dont think I would have left the old job unless something better had come along, because generally I've only worked in areas that I wanted to do in the first place.   

Retirement packages were involved in the decision making, but weren't the only factor.  I left the Army 4 years before I could have retired.  Family stability was more important than the guaranteed income.  One of the factors for choosing my next job was that I was able to convert some of my army time towards being vested, so I didn't lose all of that time.  When I left the Academic job, it was because I got to the point where I couldn't stand the politics and started to hate my job.  When I left, I was 2 years from being vested.  But it wasn't worth staying.  I took the VA job because it allowed me to reclaim my military time, and salvage a retirement, but also because I like working with veterans, and I like the people I work with.  If I didn't like what I am doing, I don't think it would have been enough to make me come to this position, even with the retirement benefits.

Circumstances change, interests change, and opportunities change, so I don't think you have to do or should keep doing something just because you wanted to, or it made sense to at one time.  It may be worth it to put up with an unpleasant situation for short time, but life is too short to spend many years being miserable.  Also, I feel it's important to always be moving towards something.  Goals are important to me.  Without them, I don't know how or why I would want to keep moving forward.  

As I get closer to a retirement that meets the actual definition of retirement, I find myself wondering if I want that.  Why should I retire, if I enjoy my job and I'm still good at it?  I could retire in 2 years.  I don't think I will.  So long as I enjoy my job, I'll keep working atleast part time, simply because I enjoy it.


----------



## HarryJM

Hey Jeff,

One thing to keep in mind is that your Social Security benefit amount increase every year from age 66 to 70 which you probable know about.
https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/1943-delay.html

I was very fortunate with my last job prior to retirement as it was a “walk in the park” as the saying goes. I was responsible for managing a piece of software for a local trucking company and my boss did not care what I did, within reason, between keeping it up and running and all of the down time in between of which I spent on various metal working forums during the day. I guess managing boredom was my main challenge.

I will be 74 next May and retired  2 years ago as of this post and that corresponded to my wife's 65th birthday and her signing up for Social Security. I chose to start my Social Security about 2 years prior (4 years ago) to my retirement just to have a little bit extra money coming in due to my wife's early retirement due to health issues.

When I signed up for my Social Security they gave me the option of backdating my benefits start  anniversary date for 6 months and then gave me a check for the difference between the 6 months ago amount and the amount I would have received now at sign up time. That check amount was for a period of 10 years if I remember correctly. So my break even point will be when I turned 80. In other words they gave me a check for the 6 months difference in the benefit amount for a period of 10 years. If I die before my 80th birthday I am still ahead in the amount of my monthly benefit check. And after that I will in essence get a smaller monthly check that reflects my 6 month early benefit date. This is probably what you were explaining at in your example, just a little more long winded for my version.

Now for a little background concerning me and my wife and our retirement planning. Neither one of us have any children and we both worked up to retirement. Brenda as a RN and me as a computer programmer as a second career starting around 1988.

We purchased our current home smallish home (about 1100 sq feet) in the early 1980's and refinanced about half way through our 30 year mortgage to a 15 year one and then started making extra monthly principal payments to pay it off early, which we did. We also decided to not buy a bigger house as our current one is quite comfortable for us and our dogs and cats over the years.

We both have a nominal guilt free monthly allowance that we can spend without hurting putting us into debt and we monitor/plan our purchases so we can pay off our monthly credit card bill.

Me and Brenda are pretty much home bodies with no desire to travel/etc and truly enjoy our individual hobbies and being able to site back and enjoy our life together. In other words life, even through these stressful times is good.

I absolutely love retirement with no regrets or longings. Its like a second childhood of an endless summer of doing whatever I want to do within reason and my allowance. During my first two years of retirement I seemed to still be on that working schedule of time of do things in a hurry as I guess it took me a few years to slowly switch to retirement time.

Best wished for a wonderful retirement!
Harry

PS

After reading the below post I decided to add a PS to mine. While index funds are a great place to park you retirement money, we decided to get completely out of the equity market and moved all of our retirement saving into CD ladders. While the interest is very little we are at a stage of life where we will probably not have the time to weather an market downturn and wanted something safe as  FDIC  insured CD's are insured up to at least $250,000 per CD per issuer.


----------



## Reddinr

> Vanguards personal advisor services charges 0.3%,



7milesup - I think that Vanguard's PAS is a pretty reasonably priced one.  I used their advisor services when I was setting things up with them but discontinued in a year because there was really nothing to do after that.  Fidelity has some good options too.  I mainly rail against the big name ones that you see/hear ads for quite a bit.  They show this smiling friend in a business suit or with rolled up sleeves ready to help you...  Yup.

If you are in low cost index funds already you are 90% there and the rest is tuning it for your own risk tolerance.  I use Vanguard too, for it's low cost funds but Fidelity has good ones too.  I considered continuing to use their PAS advisors but I found that there is really nothing to do except rebalance once or twice a year if I choose to do it.  Takes maybe 2-4 hours per year.  My highest fund expense about 0.11%.  I have four funds, many people use three and there are decent options for just having one low cost balanced fund that you set and forget.

For those with an advisor that are more comfortable with that, you are in good company.  Many people use advisors and are happy with the choice.  Just be aware of the costs.  These costs reduce your total savings both when saving for retirement and when spending down your savings in retirement.

Some good reads:








						The impact of investment costs | Vanguard
					

Don't let investment costs eat away at your returns.




					investor.vanguard.com
				











						How to Invest in Index Funds: A Beginner's Guide
					

Get a fast introduction to index funds. Learn why investors love them so much and see how these investing vehicles can help secure your future and inform your portfolio.




					www.fool.com
				







__





						Bogleheads
					






					www.bogleheads.org
				



"The bogleheads guide to investing",   "The bogleheads guide to retirement"
"The millionaire next door"
https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf    --  More geared to younger savers but a good read.

OK.  Now I'm done proselytizing.  I realize I'm being that pita uncle that won't shut up.  
SO what was the question?      Oh yeah... Social Security...

PS.
HarryJM -  Very good point in your PS above.  The balance of equity, bonds and cash-like investments like CDs is also important and a personal decision based on your risk tolerance and ability to "ride it out".  I didn't mean to imply that all funds should in equity.


----------



## Aaron_W

Tozguy said:


> By far the best advice we were given was to have a project to retire TO something, as opposed to retiring FROM something. Have a plan or vision for what you want to do with your time (that does not upset you spouse) .



Most retirement training focuses on finances, but I think this is a great point. I've seen a number of people who dread retirement, or retire and then take a some job, not even something they are interested in just to have something to do.

I actually liked my job, grew to hate the administrative side of it which seemed to grow each year, but I enjoyed the real work. I had just reached a point where I wasn't going anywhere with it. I had been an engine captain for 10 years, and had no interest in becoming a chief (way too many meetings). New guys every year, most 18-25 and they never get old because there are new ones every year. Towards the end this scene from Breaking Away really started to resonate with me, not so much the quarterback part, but the part about getting pushed aside by an endless stream of never aging new people. It does start to make you feel old.






Anyway it was time to go, and I could, so I did. It was less about not going to work anymore and a lot more about having the time to do other things I wanted to do. I still work per diem on large fires which brings in some extra money, and lets me bump into the poor slobs who still go to work everyday. While most of my other activities are not paid, I certainly do work since I retired. A 110 year old house, 6 and 20 year old sons, 43 year old wife, 51 year old Landcruiser, 62 year old fire engine, a ridiculous stash of models and a basement full of machines keeps me busy. I actually feel a lot younger than I have in years. 



savarin said:


> Retirees who used to state - "I dont know how I used to get anything done when I was working as I'm so busy now"
> Now I do this.



I think this is how you know you are doing it right.


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## Aukai

One piece of advise I gave my wife when I "retired" was, DO NOT come home and ask "Well what did you do all day while I was at work." I then reminded her of Jackie Gleason, and Alice, something about straight to the moon. All in fun of course....  OK back to finances.


----------



## addertooth

To toss in a different perspective, as I am involved with interviews and hiring.... HR is terrified right now across almost all industries.  The silver tsunami (also known as grey tsunami), has many people in HR wondering how they will compensate.   When a 60+ year old person walks out the door, a wealth of corporate knowledge and skill sets vanish from the workplace.  Most businesses are either changing business processes, or in some cases accepting the business will perform at a lower overall standard. I have already seen departments set on their ear from the loss of a few key people.  For years accountants pushed "reduced staffing", this resulted in more unique knowledge being distilled into a shrinking work-pool.  This method worked OKay when the loss of employees was at a small trickle.  Mentoring programs where a junior employee was "spun up" for a couple years was considered "expensive, and wasted money" by HR.   It was like they were unaware of what was about to happen.  The remaining employees had the obligation to absorb and distribute the job skills which had been uniquely held by the departing employees.  Some of these skills took decades for the retiring employee to master.  Now the "boom" in the baby boomers is the sound of the door closing behind them, with the remaining employees wondering who will fill "Bob's" shoes.  The accountants are pleased that Bob was replaced by a lower tier and lower paid body.  Generally, HR has no skin in the game, so whatever happens is that department's issue.  It should be interesting to see how things are in 3-5 years.


----------



## NC Rick

Aaron_W said:


> My goal is to have government assassins coming after me in about 80 years because they are tired of paying me just to have fun.


I was hoping to be killed by a jealous husband at around 90


----------



## westerner

addertooth said:


> To toss in a different perspective, as I am involved with interviews and hiring.... HR is terrified right now across almost all industries. The silver tsunami (also known as grey tsunami), has many people in HR wondering how they will compensate. When a 60+ year old person walks out the door, a wealth of corporate knowledge and skill sets vanish from the workplace. Most businesses are either changing business processes, or in some cases accepting the business will perform at a lower overall standard. I have already seen departments set on their ear from the loss of a few key people. For years accountants pushed "reduced staffing", this resulted in more unique knowledge being distilled into a shrinking work-pool. This method worked OKay when the loss of employees was at a small trickle. Mentoring programs where a junior employee was "spun up" for a couple years was considered "expensive, and wasted money" by HR. It was like they were unaware of what was about to happen. The remaining employees had the obligation to absorb and distribute the job skills which had been uniquely held by the departing employees. Some of these skills took decades for the retiring employee to master. Now the "boom" in the baby boomers is the sound of the door closing behind them, with the remaining employees wondering who will fill "Bob's" shoes. The accountants are pleased that Bob was replaced by a lower tier and lower paid body. Generally, HR has no skin in the game, so whatever happens is that department's issue. It should be interesting to see how things are in 3-5 years.


This has got to be the best summation of the world I just retired from that I have ever heard. 
HR falls back to their degrees in 'people', without an accurate assessment to the people in their charge. Does that sound like current politics?
Does that notion scare you a little?


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## Larry$

My retirement had to be all on me. I was always self employed. I purchased real estate as I went as a retirement plan. There are risks in that! But it has the effect of compounding. Easiest to manage is farm land. Next is commercial property but the risks are higher. Worst are apartments or single family houses. Too many turnover costs. Rather late in life I started buying dividend paying stocks as I got tired of dealing with renters. Someone on here said they lost their retirement in the 2008 crash. How? You don't loose if you don't sell at the low point! Don't go into equities if you are someone that runs from fear. Markets go up & down. Ride the waves. The very best time to buy is when the market crashes. The only purchases I've made this year were in March, have done nicely.  On average the S&P has grown about 10%/year for a long time. But it has fallen some years. Still way better than any savings acct, CD, or bonds. If you don't want to manage your account just buy ETFs. I wouldn't let a broker manage my account because their fees eat a big hole in the compounding. Above all, diversify. BTW I'm 78 took SS @ 70 because I didn't need the $ to live on. I made sure everything was paid for before retirement. I won't live forever so I give my kids and G-kids $ every year. I have Schwab accounts for the G-kids. There should be enough $ by the time they reach college age to do whatever education they want. Or to save it for the future. Or buy fast cars and women.


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## mmcmdl

Larry$ said:


> Or buy fast cars and women.



That was my trouble , spent every $$$$ on women , beer and fast cars and then the rest I just wasted !


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## addertooth

westerner said:


> This has got to be the best summation of the world I just retired from that I have ever heard.
> HR falls back to their degrees in 'people', without an accurate assessment to the people in their charge. Does that sound like current politics?
> Does that notion scare you a little?




Considering the quote came from a fellow Arizonan, it is not surprising we are of similar minds.
Keep up the good fight.

                   Addertooth


----------



## silence dogood

There is a Jewish saying:  Man plans and God laughs.  Been on this fairly new job the last couple years and all ready to send in the health insurance paperwork.  Then I woke up from a three day coma in the hospital.  When something like this happens, it makes a guy think.  Lost my job and got to deal with this diabetes the rest of my life.  Good thing, every thing paid for and the VA took care of the medical.  Did not want to touch the savings yet so to the Social Security office and found out  that I even have a military pension.  That surprise me since I was only in for four years. but I get an extra 2 bucks a month.  Whoopy!  That was 12 years ago.  Here is what I learned.  One: health is a constant issue.  Two: we had to down size somewhat on living expenses.   Three: keep busy on worthwhile projects.  One big plus on working on a project,  not Clickspring quality but I can take the time to put out some decent nice looking work.


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## pdentrem

I agree with Larry, in 2008, I had a mix of mutual funds and a few stocks. When the crash happened, I converted everything to dividend paying stocks only and not looked back. More than a double for anybody who stepped in at that point. Yes I had that drop of 30% before the switch, but made that up fairly quickly. With the increase in stock prices and subsequent increase in the dividend to maintain the yield percentage, the ROR is very nice. I currently hold only equities no funds or CD or bonds, and all were paying between 3-5% at time of purchase. All are paying at least that and most are 2-3 times that today. This is Dividend growth.

Dividend growth is something that many people don’t understand. Companies would prefer to not lose the money that investors have put in, therefore they maintain the yield percentage as the share price moves higher because there are other companies that have similar yields and people can move, thus causing a share price drop. 
Example Bank of Montreal was around $35 and paying a dividend of $1.40 for about 4% in 2008/2009. Now it is paying $4.20 per share which works out to 12% on my $35 share cost. At today’s share price they are still about 4% yield.

I plan on living off the dividends that my account is currently reinvesting and buying more stocks to rebalance back to 5% per company for 20 companies. 
With 20 stocks I have my own mutual fund at minimal cost. I get to keep that 2-3% management fee for myself!
Pierre


----------



## BGHansen

I'm 61 and plan on working until just past 62.  I'm a salaried engineer at General Motors and have the option of a lump sum pension payment or a monthly pension.  Most take the lump sum (I will also).  My current plan is to wait until 66 yrs. 10 months for my SS, but that's still up in the air.  Payments for me are around $2100 per month at 62 or $3200 per month at 66/10. 

There's no good "cookie cutter" answer as everyone's age, health, expenses, finances, etc. are different.  For us, we're in really good shape.  When asked at work when I plan on retiring, I say on 3/1/2022 or tomorrow if they p*ss me off.  I enjoy what I do and work with a lot of good people.  If work was a drudgery every day, I'd already be gone.

A rough rule of thumb for retirement savings is having 10 years of salary in your 401K.  We're thankfully way beyond that.  House has been paid off for ~10 years, daughter through law school 3 years ago, son has one semester of college left (only 2 classes) to get a degree in Computer Engineering.  My line at work is "one of the few good things about getting old is you get your debt paid off".

Other variables to consider are health and your bucket list.  The line we use around work is "you can always make more money, but you can't make more time".  My wife is 3+ years younger than me, works as a Unigraphics designer for a defense contractor.  She likes what she does and plans on working until 62.  I'm encouraging her to go sooner per the line around my work place.  She'd like to travel Europe, Australia, New Zealand and see the western USA after she retires.  I've learned after ~30 years of marriage that telling her to do something doesn't end well for me.  My tact is "Honey, we're a partnership so maybe you should consider my age when you want to retire.  When you hit 62, I'm already well into 65 and by that summer when you'd like to start travelling, I'll be close to 66.  Sure hope I still feeling like walking around all day at that age."

Bruce


----------



## Papa Charlie

Larry$ said:


> My retirement had to be all on me. I was always self employed. I purchased real estate as I went as a retirement plan. There are risks in that! But it has the effect of compounding. Easiest to manage is farm land. Next is commercial property but the risks are higher. Worst are apartments or single family houses. Too many turnover costs. Rather late in life I started buying dividend paying stocks as I got tired of dealing with renters. *Someone on here said they lost their retirement in the 2008 crash. How? You don't loose if you don't sell at the low point!* Don't go into equities if you are someone that runs from fear. Markets go up & down. Ride the waves. The very best time to buy is when the market crashes. The only purchases I've made this year were in March, have done nicely.  On average the S&P has grown about 10%/year for a long time. But it has fallen some years. Still way better than any savings acct, CD, or bonds. If you don't want to manage your account just buy ETFs. I wouldn't let a broker manage my account because their fees eat a big hole in the compounding. Above all, diversify. BTW I'm 78 took SS @ 70 because I didn't need the $ to live on. I made sure everything was paid for before retirement. I won't live forever so I give my kids and G-kids $ every year. I have Schwab accounts for the G-kids. There should be enough $ by the time they reach college age to do whatever education they want. Or to save it for the future. Or buy fast cars and women.



I won't go into it, but I am saddened that someone would have such a shallow view as to make this statement. I lost my business, which lead to loosing our home. I lost the majority of my savings trying to keep my business going and my employees working as they had no place to go in California as there were no jobs.


----------



## matthewsx

I lost a home in the 2008 crash, took 4 years to play out but at the end we couldn't justify paying a mortgage to subsidize the really bad renters living there. Also gone was the business we had finally built to profitability in 2007. 

Not all the losses were in the stock market, and as someone else said "man plans and god laughs". Fortunately my wife's job kept going strong and consolidating to one house Michigan from two Arizona allowed us to stay on track. My wife is a saver, not sure where I'd be without her .

As it stands right now I plan on working 10 or 15 more years but only time will tell, my old line of work gave plenty of freedom to travel which I don't have now and she's a few years ahead of me. Health insurance and aging parents play into the equation as well, the only thing I know for sure is you can't buy more time....

John


----------



## Larry$

*Sorry Papa Charlie*. I took what you said wrong. I thought you meant you had lost it in the stock market. Many people did.  I went through the same thing in my business. It almost broke me. I was lucky in that I had rental income to survive on. I had very little $ in the market at that time. I sold some things and when the market was at the bottom I bought shares. Lucky, but I was feeling the need to gamble or loose it. Historically every time there has been a crash the market has bounced back. Often quickly. 

pdentrem said " Dividend growth is something that many people don’t understand. Companies would prefer to not lose the money that investors have put in, therefore they maintain the yield percentage as the share price moves higher because there are other companies that have similar yields and people can move, thus causing a share price drop." What ever their motivation the math works out the same.  Compounding keeps working, the more years you've got 'til retirement the faster your investment grows. 

Just investing what people spend on Tabaco can compound into over $200,000 at retirement! And be healthy enough to enjoy it.


----------



## pdentrem

It is not always a bed of roses! I have had a 5 lemons in the 30+ years, all in the last 20 years. Since no company is more than 5% of the account the hits have not been insurmountable. It is the risk, but staying with blue chip helps.
Compound interest.
I tell the younger guys to tell their kids or do it for their kids, put $80 a month for 10 years and even if one does nothing more than that, watch it grow. Just about every financial institution has calculators to play with. I really wish that we had been taught financial stuff instead of having to figure it out on our own. I could have done the $80 a month starting at 18 instead of 30 and been in better shape all around. Earlier to loans and mortgages for example.
Pierre


----------



## Janderso

mmcmdl said:


> Great timing on this thread Jeff . I'm following along as I'm in the same predicament as to thinking retiring early .


Dave, reading through your posts over the last year or so, I hope the management team where you work appreciates the long hours of skilled mechanical work you perform.
Sounds like you are becoming more valuable by the day.


----------



## Janderso

randyjaco said:


> I retired a 59. As soon as eligible I took my social security, not because I needed the money, but because I paid in and wanted to get some return. The true difference in the money is not that great. You still can't live on the full amount. You had better have something already in the piggy bank. As someone else stated, I calculate my break-even point was 85. I am still a long way from 85
> The system is not sustainable, but if the money runs out I don't want to depend on Washington to make things right.


No, the system is not sustainable, but if you promise people for decades there will be this much, every month then they pull the plug? I think we would have a 10,000,000 man March on Washington.
I worry about my wife’s State Teachers Retirement System too.
One of the employees at work asked me if 2 million was adequate for a retirement nest egg. I said, if you are careful, absolutely.
My mother lives on $2,000 a month social security and dividends from a half a million at Edward Jones. Her rent is $2,000 a month. The investment is growing.
We have a rather large nest egg with no debt. Although I have pondered financing a new 16x40 with DRO...... nah.
My goal is to make it to Medicare, then I can go out anytime.


----------



## Janderso

mmcmdl said:


> What's this talk of profit sharing , pensions , vacation time etc everyone is speaking of ?


You mean they work you like a dog with no 401K offerings?


----------



## Janderso

addertooth said:


> To toss in a different perspective, as I am involved with interviews and hiring.... HR is terrified right now across almost all industries.  The silver tsunami (also known as grey tsunami), has many people in HR wondering how they will compensate.   When a 60+ year old person walks out the door, a wealth of corporate knowledge and skill sets vanish from the workplace.  Most businesses are either changing business processes, or in some cases accepting the business will perform at a lower overall standard. I have already seen departments set on their ear from the loss of a few key people.  For years accountants pushed "reduced staffing", this resulted in more unique knowledge being distilled into a shrinking work-pool.  This method worked OKay when the loss of employees was at a small trickle.  Mentoring programs where a junior employee was "spun up" for a couple years was considered "expensive, and wasted money" by HR.   It was like they were unaware of what was about to happen.  The remaining employees had the obligation to absorb and distribute the job skills which had been uniquely held by the departing employees.  Some of these skills took decades for the retiring employee to master.  Now the "boom" in the baby boomers is the sound of the door closing behind them, with the remaining employees wondering who will fill "Bob's" shoes.  The accountants are pleased that Bob was replaced by a lower tier and lower paid body.  Generally, HR has no skin in the game, so whatever happens is that department's issue.  It should be interesting to see how things are in 3-5 years.


Interesting perspective, I think this is happening in many industries. I know I can’t replace skilled workers, we have to grow them. It takes a decade or so with quite an investment in off site training.


----------



## Papa Charlie

Janderso said:


> Interesting perspective, I think this is happening in many industries. I know I can’t replace skilled workers, we have to grow them. It takes a decade or so with quite an investment in off site training.



We have the same scenario taking place at Boeing. They are getting rid of the skilled workers, many are taking early retirement (VLO) or are being Laid off (ILO). They don't listen to us any more, everything is about the younger people that they pamper for fear of loosing them to Microsoft or Amazon, who pay a lot more, less benefits and also work you long hours. Even have an Alcohol cart that comes around and rooms with beds, so no need to leave.
The problem with the younger workers, most are straight out of collage. Yes they are smart but have no practical experience and most don't want to spend the time to learn a skill, they all have dreams of moving into management and moving up. When you try to teach them, which I do, they often say, "I have to do all that, isn't there a program that does that?".  None of them want to work. They all want to be an executive. Many of our execs started in the shops 20-30 plus years ago. They used the money provided by Boeing to get their educations and work their way up. But for the first time they have offered VLO's to the Execs. We are loosing a huge resource of talent.


----------



## Janderso

BGHansen said:


> I'm 61 and plan on working until just past 62.  I'm a salaried engineer at General Motors and have the option of a lump sum pension payment or a monthly pension.  Most take the lump sum (I will also).  My current plan is to wait until 66 yrs. 10 months for my SS, but that's still up in the air.  Payments for me are around $2100 per month at 62 or $3200 per month at 66/10.
> 
> There's no good "cookie cutter" answer as everyone's age, health, expenses, finances, etc. are different.  For us, we're in really good shape.  When asked at work when I plan on retiring, I say on 3/1/2022 or tomorrow if they p*ss me off.  I enjoy what I do and work with a lot of good people.  If work was a drudgery every day, I'd already be gone.
> 
> A rough rule of thumb for retirement savings is having 10 years of salary in your 401K.  We're thankfully way beyond that.  House has been paid off for ~10 years, daughter through law school 3 years ago, son has one semester of college left (only 2 classes) to get a degree in Computer Engineering.  My line at work is "one of the few good things about getting old is you get your debt paid off".
> 
> Other variables to consider are health and your bucket list.  The line we use around work is "you can always make more money, but you can't make more time".  My wife is 3+ years younger than me, works as a Unigraphics designer for a defense contractor.  She likes what she does and plans on working until 62.  I'm encouraging her to go sooner per the line around my work place.  She'd like to travel Europe, Australia, New Zealand and see the western USA after she retires.  I've learned after ~30 years of marriage that telling her to do something doesn't end well for me.  My tact is "Honey, we're a partnership so maybe you should consider my age when you want to retire.  When you hit 62, I'm already well into 65 and by that summer when you'd like to start travelling, I'll be close to 66.  Sure hope I still feeling like walking around all day at that age."
> 
> Bruce


Bruce,
You and your wife are a perfect example of working hard, raising kids and providing for college, investing wisely in the end pays dividends. You can have your cake and eat it too.
I’m finally getting my boys to invest for tomorrow. They have time, I just hope my 32 year old teacher son has retirement income like his mother.


----------



## addertooth

Janderso said:


> Interesting perspective, I think this is happening in many industries. I know I can’t replace skilled workers, we have to grow them. It takes a decade or so with quite an investment in off site training.


Yep, businesses respond by segmenting efforts into smaller bites.  This way, any worker only needs to know a very small piece of the entire pie.   Where the critical bleed happens is in the higher skilled "generalists" who had a global (total) view of every step of the process (and could perform it ALL solo).  They are also the ones who would spot process failures when a collaborative process was used.  They had a total cradle to grave view view of processes and outcomes; that perspective is slipping away.  This means that even with (simpler) segmented processes, those who understand how those processes mesh, and interlock, will not be around.   The classic rule is: Those who do not understand something, cannot manage the processes effectively.  They do not understand the resources required in terms of hardware/supplies/manning.  Segmentation only had a hope as long as those who had mastered the entire scope, were around to manage, guide, and provide technical oversight.


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## Bamban

When our first grandkid was born, my wife went to work the following day, she informed her manager she was retiring so she cam be a full time grandmother. She did,, she left me for a year to help our daughter-in-law. My wife was 55 at time. She is now 66. I retired from the company at 55, but got pulled away by a friend who jumpstarted a new division in another company. It was a good gig. I finally retired retired at age 59, I am now 68.

Retiring early is well worth it. Staying put and visiting grandkids beats the heck out of working. The 4 lathes, including a brand new PM1440TV, a Bridgeport, and other stuff in the garage, and shooting in competition keep me busy when we are not with the grandkids. 

In our retirement we have no desire to travel outside the US. We traveled all of Asia and most of Europe when we were both working while the kids were in college. Son graduated from Duke and daughter from Johns Hopkins.

The best benefit I can see in retirement is the spontaneous lifestyle. In 2013 I asked the wife of she wanted to go for a ride, she asked where, I said pack enough for a week. We pointed the car to the West, a month later we were back. No reservation, no plans, just played it by ear where we ate, and where we stayed.

Yes, no regret retiring early.


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## 7milesup

With all due respect to Bruce...  Never pay for your kids college cost.  Sure, help them with some rent or whatever, but every financial advisor will tell you to take care of yourself first.  The kids have their whole life to pay for college; we only have a finite time to pay for retirement.
Again, not to say you made the wrong decision at all Bruce, just that for most people it is not a good decision.  We have some friends that worked just "normal" worker bee jobs.  They paid for their kids college.  Not sure when they are going to retire...
My parents didn't pay for anything nor was there any support.  I clawed my way up in life.  It is a pure miracle that I got to where I ended up.


----------



## 7milesup

Janderso said:


> My mother lives on $2,000 a month social security and dividends from a half a million at Edward Jones. Her rent is $2,000 a month. The investment is growing.



Information like that is what a lot of people look for.  By the time I take SS we will have our new house paid for and no debt.  The SS will easily get us by.  I hate traveling but the wife wants to do some.  I would like to spend more time out west.  Maybe I can come and see some of you guys that live on the left coast... LOL.  

The average retirement savings of a 55 year old (me) is $117,000 according to some sources.


----------



## BGHansen

Janderso said:


> Bruce,
> You and your wife are a perfect example of working hard, raising kids and providing for college, investing wisely in the end pays dividends. You can have your cake and eat it too.
> I’m finally getting my boys to invest for tomorrow. They have time, I just hope my 32 year old teacher son has retirement income like his mother.


The wife and I are blessed, no doubt. I started putting away 15% in my 401k at 23. Wife did 20% starting at 28. We budgeted ourselves off my check and took another 20% of her check after taxes for our kids college education fund. We ended up never touching the college fund as we made/make enough to just write the checks. We got where we are by falling into good paying jobs with stability. Also both of us have higher education degrees which helps to separate yourself from the masses. 

We also did without items we considered frivolous which for now has us in a wonderful position. More bragging than anything, but when I approached my wife about buying the Tormach mill last year she was good as long as it was under $100k.

I used to be our son's cub scout leader and remember having to open the pole barn door to get enough light in the shop to use my table saw for a pack project. Fluorescent lights don't work below 20F. I didn't want to spend the money essentially heating another house so dealt with freezing in the shop. Granted, mostly managed my projects around the weather. Now there's a 125,000 BTU heater out there and have enough saved up that I'm comfortable in two respects setting the thermostat to 60. 

Best advice is to start saving early and learn to live within your means. Because you want it doesn't mean you can afford it or really need it. If you buy frivolously and get in trouble, it's your own d*mn fault. The hardest thing can be accepting your place in society. Just because your chosen profession doesn't give you a champagne budget doesn't make you less of a man. 

I really feel for people trying to run a small business, then have a change in technology blow them away. My dad was a shop teacher and ran a photofinishing business on the side. They processed Ektachrome slide film, did special effects slides, duplicated slides, etc. Then LCD projectors and PowerPoint came out. They went from processing film 9 times a week to maybe once every 9 weeks. Fortunately they budgeted their life off the stable teaching job when the bottom fell out on their business. Plus good timing as the market changed when he was around 65 and was ready to retire for good.

Wow, way off topic!

Bruce


----------



## Reddinr

> Never pay for your kids college cost


Though I would never say "never", I think there are benefits of having to work some to get through school.  For one thing it can help prepare you for work life after school, especially if you can land the rare summer internship in a related field.  On the other hand, college costs seemed to have skyrocketed since I went to school back in the stone age.  My parents had no money so I didn't have a choice.  I'm not sure how I would have gone to school without help at today's rates.  Big debt, I imagine.

My brother and sister in law paid for both of their kids schooling.  The kids came out great.  They are married, gainfully employed and good people.  They were/are fine parents.  However, my brother-in-law, near retirement, died recently and my sister in law is in a very tight financial situation.  They were comfortable while working and generous with their kids but they just didn't leave enough for retirement.  So, pay for school, don't pay for school but I suggest that you be sure that you won't be retiring to a very tight situation for yourself if you can help it.  (PS.  I find it maddening that about 5% of her annual investment income goes to the financial advisor for annual management fees while she is stretched so very thin.)  

Also, great advice above, Bruce!  Can you buy me a Tormach?


----------



## pdentrem

5%! Getting shafted! I hope you can help her move to another company.
Pierre


----------



## BGHansen

Reddinr said:


> Also, great advice above, Bruce!  Can you buy me a Tormach?


Tell you what, IF I decide to sell it I'm make you a deal   It was only used on the weekends by a very conservative hoppy machinist!  

Some old adage about how a millionaire got to be a millionaire?  By not giving away a million!

Bruce


----------



## Just for fun

My plan is to retire at 62 and take my SS at that time.   I'll have 30 years in the company.   That date is coming up the end of May next year, actually 194 days left but who's counting!   I have lots of nice tools but no mill or lathe yet.   

Tim


----------



## Reddinr

> I hope you can help her move to another company.


It is 5% of her income, not her investment.  But, it is a waste of money in my opinion.  She is still in a fragile state after the loss of her husband so does not want to deal with changing things right now.  I think in time my wife and I can help her get to a less expensive investment situation.



> ... by a very conservative hoppy machinist


You really shouldn't drink beer while machining.  
There are a few variations on your adage.  For example, how to make a million dollars starting a winery...start with three million.


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## Mtnmac

I say retire now if you can.  No guarantees for what the future holds.  I retired at 60, but didn’t really want to... my wife had already retired and was bugging me about it.  I had a great job, machining large aerospace stuff.  Something new and challenging every day.  I finally gave in and retired, built my own shop and never looked back.  My strategy was to not have any debt and keep our cost of living low.  Everything is paid off, the house was remodeled in the last 6 years etc.  I started collecting SS just last month at age 62, also have a 401K.  As others have pointed out, health insurance is a big thing, ours is through my wife’s retirement pension.  Our cost for that would be huge if we had to purchase it ourselves.


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## Larry$

Management fees don't seem to buy you anything other than a happy manager. You can do better in an index ETF and not have to do any managing. Some of the brokerage firms, like Schwab, have very low fee ETFs and allow buying and selling of them at no cost. Dump the manager.


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## 7milesup

Some of you guys that have wives that are professionals are very fortunate too.  My wife pretty much had to stay home to raise the kids since I was gone a lot.
I also got married young and made somewhat of an error.  She had no college education.  BUT... she was beautiful, blond, busty, and fun.  At that time, those were the only 4 boxes I had to check.


----------



## addertooth

7milesup said:


> Some of you guys that have wives that are professionals are very fortunate too.  My wife pretty much had to stay home to raise the kids since I was gone a lot.
> I also got married young and made somewhat of an error.  She had no college education.  BUT... she was beautiful, blond, busty, and fun.  At that time, those were the only 4 boxes I had to check.



When we are young, retirement seems an eternity away.  I can't say I blame you.


----------



## BGHansen

7milesup said:


> With all due respect to Bruce...  Never pay for your kids college cost.  Sure, help them with some rent or whatever, but every financial advisor will tell you to take care of yourself first.  The kids have their whole life to pay for college; we only have a finite time to pay for retirement.
> Again, not to say you made the wrong decision at all Bruce, just that for most people it is not a good decision.  We have some friends that worked just "normal" worker bee jobs.  They paid for their kids college.  Not sure when they are going to retire...
> My parents didn't pay for anything nor was there any support.  I clawed my way up in life.  It is a pure miracle that I got to where I ended up.


Many schools of thought.  My dad put himself through college by joining the Marine Corp for the GI bill.  His dad didn't help him at all.  I also have a co-worker who grew up in a family of 8 kids.  Everyone knew what they were getting for their 18th birthday:  Luggage to move out the next day regardless if they were in high school or not.

My parents paid for my school though I offered.  I worked a part-time job while in school and made really good money programming on a TRS-80 computer (Google "Bruce Hansen TRS-80").  My tuition at community college was a whopping $11 - $13 per credit hour.  Michigan State University was a whopping $29.50 - $33 a credit hour.  We were on terms, not semesters, so multiply by 1.5 to get the semester rate.  I also co-op'd at GM while at MSU and recall getting take-home checks of $466.06 twice a month.  I'd get 13 checks a year which would easily cover my ~$500 tuition per term.  On top of that, I had an academic scholarship for $250 a term or around half-tuition.  Annual tuition at MSU was around $2000 a year including books.  My 1981 Cutlass Supreme with every option cost $10,400, paid cash for it when I was 21.

My dad said he'd didn't have a problem paying my tuition as long as I got good grades and was pursuing an employable curriculum.  He was also strict about NOT being a party animal.  He figured my job was school.  If I wasn't blowing my money, he'd cover my school.

We're fortunate that our kids understand and appreciate what we are doing/did for them.  Our daughter's undergrad was at a $35K per year school.  She got her Bachelors in Business Administration with a specialty in international business in 3 years.  Then went on to law school at Wayne State University at around $55K per year including living expenses.  That would have been over $250K in debt if she'd have covered it on her own.  She understood that we didn't pay for C's or lower and never had a bill to pay.  My wife and I make pretty good money, and with no house payment, really nice 401K, etc. etc. etc. could pay those bills and still have our bank account go up.  The cost of college has gotten insane:  5 years of school in my day was the cost of a very nice new car.  Now they are equal.

We've been lucky that we didn't have to show any "tough love".  I had a co-worker whose son took 7 years to get a Bachelors; he was a party animal and failed a number of classes.  The kid ended up doing okay, but blew a lot of my co-workers money.

The big help for us was dumping money in our 401K while raising our kids, and in my case, having a pension from my employer.  We have never carried debt on a credit card and explained the math to our kids early on.  Does it seem "fair" that the bank will give you a penny for every dollar you save with them over a year, but charge you 20 cents to borrow a dollar?  Scr#w them, I don't need anything that badly!  If we couldn't pay cash, we didn't buy it (other than our house).

To your point, we did take care of ourselves for retirement at the same time.  Financial advisors will tell you a rough rule of thumb is to have 10 times your salary in your 401K to be comfortable in retirement.  Yes, kind of bragging, but we're at over 20 times my salary, closer to 25.  We don't want for anything and can afford to help our kids out as long as we don't feel like they're taking advantage of us.  We figure they're eventually going to get it anyhow, might as well help them out while they're young so they have some funds to enjoy while in their 20's and 30's instead of getting just their college debt paid off (like another house payment) when they're in their 40's.

Bruce


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## 7milesup

...


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## Aukai




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## Janderso

We paid for my son to go to Chico State. He got his AA at a local community college. He graduated with a teaching credential without one dime of debt. He did take out a small student loan to finish his Masters which he has completed. We offered to pay for his Masters as well but he refused.
Yes, college is out of reach for far too many students, without taking on a huge debt. 
Sad really.


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## Larry$

Why has the cost of college skyrocketed? Way faster than inflation. I paid for my kids college. In 1970 I was getting $90/month on the GI bill. Working 25-30 hours a week Made it easy to survive (living in a dump not drinking too much beer.)


----------



## Janderso

Larry$ said:


> Why has the cost of college skyrocketed? Way faster than inflation. I paid for my kids college. In 1970 I was getting $90/month on the GI bill. Working 25-30 hours a week Made it easy to survive (living in a dump not drinking too much beer.)


Good point. I was working an almost minimum wage job during high school. I had an apartment with a buddy, we bought food, I paid for gas, clothes, insurance, tec.  went to school then to work and still had money left over for my girlfriends
The value of the old mighty dollar just isn't what it use to be.


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## Janderso

Aukai said:


> View attachment 344291


Ralphie Boy.


----------



## 7milesup

Larry$ said:


> Why has the cost of college skyrocketed? Way faster than inflation. I paid for my kids college. In 1970 I was getting $90/month on the GI bill. Working 25-30 hours a week Made it easy to survive (living in a dump not drinking too much beer.)


Well, lets take my home state of Wisconsin as an example.  In 1974 about 44% of the University's funding came from the State.  This past year it was 16%.  Approximately 10 or so years ago, the total financial encumbrance on a student was roughly 50%.  About 4 years ago, when I went back to college, the tuition cost encumbrance on the student had risen to over 71%.
And you are correct, that costs have skyrocketed way more than inflation.  But, it isn't so much as it is costs as it is funding.
For every dollar spent in our University system, 7 dollars is returned to that State in increased revenue due to higher paying jobs and new business.  For some reason, that fact is completely lost on most people and the State government, especially  when you have a former governor that gutted the funding just because he didn't like education.

Edit:  Nothing will change until this country figures out that an education is an investment in our future, not a cost.


----------



## Aaron_W

7milesup said:


> Well, lets take my home state of Wisconsin as an example.  In 1974 about 44% of the University's funding came from the State.  This past year it was 16%.  Approximately 10 or so years ago, the total financial encumbrance on a student was roughly 50%.  About 4 years ago, when I went back to college, the tuition cost encumbrance on the student had risen to over 71%.
> And you are correct, that costs have skyrocketed way more than inflation.  But, it isn't so much as it is costs as it is funding.
> For every dollar spent in our University system, 7 dollars is returned to that State in increased revenue due to higher paying jobs and new business.  For some reason, that fact is completely lost on most people and the State government, especially  when you have a former governor that gutted the funding just because he didn't like education.
> 
> Edit:  Nothing will change until this country figures out that an education is an investment in our future, not a cost.



College was practically free (tuition was free, but there were some administrative costs allowed for related services) in California until the late 1960s when then Governor Reagan put an end to that. 
California still has some of the lowest public college fees in the US but it is far from free. In the late 1980s when I graduated high school community college only cost me $3.00 / quarter unit. By the time I had completed two AS degrees in 1994 costs had risen to $15 / semester unit. Today a California community college costs $46 / semester unit a 300% increase over 26 years, well above inflation. If it stayed with the rate of inflation that $15 / unit tuition would only be $26 / unit today.  

I've discovered from talking with those outside of California looking at taking classes at a community college $46 / unit is still a bargain compared to most.

My understanding for the causes tend to be cynical and political, so I will just leave it at that.


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## addertooth

I can tell everyone exactly why the cost of college went up.  I used to be a college instructor and a department head (Computer Science).

There has been a social struggle with the concept of "underprivileged students" attending higher tier schools.   Many in the Government who were "socially active" felt it was unfair for little Johnny (who had a C average) not being able to attend the college of his choice.   We have seen colleges change they scale for admissions as a result.  We have also seen the government ratchet UP how much they will allow your Government Student Loan to climb.   Many (most) colleges immediately raised their tuition costs EVERY time the student loan cap was increased.   If you map the increase in the Cap of student loans the past two decades you will see the underlying mechanism.   You might argue that "it is not as simple as that"; **it is**.   Every time the loan cap goes up, the nation-wide average increases in lock step.  

Most colleges would have to close their doors if they they didn't have students coming in on Government Student Loans (GSL).  So many of them are entirely dependent upon student debt to exist.  Students attending on loans makes up the bulk of students in many colleges.  If the GSL limits did not grow the next 5 years, you would see tuition costs flatten overnight.  It IS as simple as that.  And yes, the school I taught at did raise tuition EVERY time the GSL limit went up, as did all the other colleges in the region.  We did not raise the tuition because we were "broke"... but we did plan expansions, new marble floors, etc...  all off the fat of the increase in GSLs.


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## Larry$

There was a recent article here about the fact that the # of administrators has gone up 50% in the last XXX years while the student population went up aby about 20%. Turns out the same has happened in the local school system. There are more administrators than teachers.
There is a major problem with college education when so many kids get degrees in things that are pretty much like underwater basket weaving.

Too many kids are ill prepared academically. Colleges waste time and resources on low level classes that are just a repeat of what should have been learned in high school. When I was in high school my parents moved to a rural district. The school sent people to my house to make sure I was going to attend the little town school. They needed a 5th male so they could have a basket ball team. Because I had started in the city school I was allowed to continue there. Just had to drive into town. City school had college credit classes in Chemistry, Physics, Biology and math with teachers dedicated to each subject.  The little town school had 3 teachers for 9th through 12th grade! They might have been good teachers but I'll bet they weren't qualified in all the subjects they had to teach. There were no labs, no advanced math classes. They did have a garage used for working on a car and doing some welding. The next year the state pulled their accreditation because they lacked a library among other things. Kids from there were at a huge disadvantage if they went on to a university. There has been a lot of consolidation since then as the state has tightened the requirements. But it has been fought tooth and nail by many small districts.  Beginning, not end of rant!


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## Aukai

My son(step) was a tutor for his own freshman engineering class in CAD. The other kids didn't know how to do it yet.


----------



## pdentrem

It can get worst! A good friend ended up actually teaching the stats class as the professor was just horrible! My buddy had originally been taught 30 years before by the guy who had written the book on stats. He was back in uni for a final teaching credit for the bucket list leftovers from back in the day.
Pierre


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## Just for fun

I retired early at 62,  I haven't started taking social security yet.   Yesterday was my last day!


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## Janderso

Just for fun,
I
Love it.
It’s almost June. That leaves six more months For me!


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## mmcmdl

I feel like leaving *TONIGHT ! *
Every GD time it rains , we have pellet problems , and it's pouring here .


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## Larry$

I waited until I was 70. I now think that was a mistake. I wanted to maximize my SS. But I can live perfectly well W/O any SS. The body is showing signs of going down hill.


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## Aukai

Congratulations, I toughed it out to 66, so I could still work, and not pay back SS. The last 4 years before retiring I stocked up on machines, and tools.


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## mmcmdl

Aukai said:


> and tools.


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## Just for fun

Thanks guys,  Now I just need to build a shop and buy some machining tool and I join in on the rest the fun! 

Tim


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## addertooth

I have decided to wait till I am 70 to retire.  I realize I will have no money to acquire the tools I want after I retire.   So, I am loading up while I still have disposable income.  One fairly good predictor of how well you will age is your parents. Mine are currently 88 and 80.  They are living independently in a new house they just had built.   My spouse is a decade younger than me, and has never worked in a high paying profession.   As such, her best numbers for Social Security are achieve by her claiming 1/2 of my Social Security payment.  Obviously, that number climbs the longer I defer claiming it (up to age 70). 

I do bemoan the way retirement has changed over the years.  It has been decades since I have worked for a company which had a "true" retirement package.  i.e. One which you retired after reaching the "rule of 80", or "20+ years of service" at a rate which was roughly the same as your last year of earnings. Now, unless you work for the Government, most only offer you the opportunity to pay into a 401K with some measure of "matching funds".  Perhaps this is why the various lotteries have become so popular among the boomers these days.  

I am still on the bubble on deciding whether I am getting the tools to make supplemental income when I retire, or simply to tinker with to avoid boredom  The jury is still out on that one.


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## Papa Charlie

This July 10th, 2021 marks the one year point until I retire from work. I will be 66 and some months by then. But I will not be taking SS until later. Most all my disposable income goes to the 401 at this time. Thankfully, my company will match up to 8% of my salary and contributes another 5%. Between the companies and my contributions, I should be set by July of 2022.

Looking forward to retirement and building my shop. Will have to wait to add any machines to my shop inventory until then. I expect that may require some significant travel to get equipment at a reasonable cost. Not a completely bad thing. Thankfully I have an F350 Dually so pulling a heavy load is not a huge concern.

Oddly though, my biggest concern about retirement is not having that paycheck coming in. I have been working in some form since I was in the 6th grade. Times when I have had no paycheck were bad times not good. Even though I should be good, the thought of retiring and the loss of that check from my hard work tends to send panic through me.


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## rabler

I know I've mentioned it before, but I retired very early at 56 in 2019, after a bout of cancer which shows no sign of coming back at this point.   Wife and I don't have any kids so that puts our finances in a pretty good spot.  While I had planned to work until 60 to pay for a nicer retirement home, it didn't really matter after the uncertainties while going through cancer treatment.

 I'd been setting up a bit of a shop before that as I've always liked woodworking and welding/fabricating.  My grandfather was a machinist so I had purchased a few new Grizzly machine tools (mill and lathe) before retirement.  I've opted to put the time and effort into rebuilding older machines to expand my machine collection.

While I have to be a little more careful with money since retiring, the reality is expenses go down pretty drastically too.  Less eating out for lunch, no work clothes needed, less miles on the cars and so less gas and maintenance, etc.  More time to look for unicorn deals on used equipment


----------



## ddickey

To those guys who're retiring soon, what are you finding out there for health insurance? My plant is slated to close in ten years so I have time before I retire but I've heard horror stories about the insurance costs.


----------



## matthewsx

I'm not retired yet but my wife and I had a few months last year of paying our health insurance out of pocket. I'm 55 and she's 60, both in good health, and we were able to purchase insurance through her former employer.

At $1800/mo we quickly realized that was another mortgage for a house we could never live in. Fortunately I've landed a job with benefits but it's clear I need to work another 10 years regardless of our saving and having good retirement investments. The old way of your employer paying for health benefits and pension income was great for our parents but that rug has been pulled out from almost every worker in the US.

Personally I find our system where you can "retire" at 59 1/2 but can't sign up for Medicare until 65 to be very cynical at best. Seems like they're just betting you'll die before you can get into the system you paid for your whole working life.

Both my wife and I come from families that have long life genes so chances are we'll be healthy far into the future. But, it would be nice to appreciate the fruits of our labor while we're still able to enjoy them....

Add into all of this the responsibility of caring for elderly parents and it feels like you're getting the short end of an increasingly short stick....

John


----------



## BGHansen

I was planning on retiring on February 28, 2022, but might extend that date by three months.  My company (and every other one in the USA?) was required as of 1993 to recognize the Family Medical Leave Act.  In my case, it allows up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave from work to take care of a sick family member or yourself if you are ill.  The act also requires the company to maintain your healthcare insurance and to give you an equivalent job when you return to work.  My plan could be starting the year on FMLA, then work 2 weeks, take my 6 weeks of vacation and retire.

I can purchase retiree healthcare from my company, but the premiums and deductible are much higher than active employee healthcare insurance.  The FMLA will allow me to maintain my current healthcare into "pseudo-retirement" for another 3 months, then I'll go for sure.  Kind of milking the system a little bit, but it's their system so I'll take advantage of it if I can.

I may be taking some FMLA this year too as my mom has cancer that is progressing.  She has spots on her pancreas and L1-L4 vertebrae.  She has a fantastic attitude about it because of her faith.  If things start going south quickly, I'll take 3 months off from work without pay to be with her.

Another option a cousin of mine told me about (but I haven't investigated well) is the Affordable Care Act.  If I understand my cousin correctly, he is delaying SS until 66/9 months for his full share.  He receives no pension from his former employer.  He and his wife banked enough money after taxes to live on until they both turn 65 and file for Medicare.  In the meantime, they are technically paupers and qualify for health care through the Affordable Care Act.  He just has to make sure they don't exceed something like $36,000 or $38,000 a year in unearned income, of cashed in 401K bucks.

Bruce


----------



## Karl_T

ddickey said:


> To those guys who're retiring soon, what are you finding out there for health insurance? My plant is slated to close in ten years so I have time before I retire but I've heard horror stories about the insurance costs.



We are talking Obama care here. It all depends on your AGR, adjusted gross income. For my wife and I, in Minnesota, the Obama care credit started phasing out at $36000 and was completely gone by AGR $70,000. Below the bottom number and insurance was not too bad. Check me but you are in the $4K per person per year range - but BIG deductible.  Now we were over the top number when Obama care first started and the bill was $15K per person per year with 6K deductable that we always had to pay because of our medical issues.

In our specific case it made sense to drop our income by 40K per year to save 30K a year in Obama care, income, and self employment taxes. So we closed 1/2 our business and in effect semi retired early.

Now we are on medicare, premium is only about $4K a year for both of us - cheap. Decent deductibles too.

ANYWAY TAKE HOME MESSAGE - BE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT HERE. I'd pay a tax accountant to run the numbers for you.


----------



## Tozguy

Papa Charlie said:


> Times when I have had no paycheck were bad times not good. Even though I should be good, the thought of retiring and the loss of that check from my hard work tends to send panic through me.


That was the hurdle for me. The psychological impact of going from living off new earned money to living off our savings was traumatizing. It turned out well for going on 16 years now, because we are in good health, share the costs and do not have an expensive lifestyle.


----------



## Papa Charlie

I have looked into medical costs in retirement and medicare. Based on what I can find this is what I have budgeted per year for the two of us. This covers the medicare cost, supplemental insurance and out of pocket expenses. I also have added in an increase of 0.5% per year for inflation that applies to my entire budget including fixed expenses like mortgage.


----------



## Janderso

Papa Charlie said:


> Thankfully, my company will match up to 8% of my salary and contributes another 5%.


I get $500 for the year from my boss. I max out my Roth and put 15% into my 401 K.
I can't wait until retirement and I'm scared poopless at the same time


----------



## Janderso

Papa Charlie said:


> I have looked into medical costs in retirement and medicare. Based on what I can find this is what I have budgeted per year for the two of us. This covers the medicare cost, supplemental insurance and out of pocket expenses. I also have added in an increase of 0.5% per year for inflation that applies to my entire budget including fixed expenses like mortgage.
> 
> View attachment 367624


Hopefully that mortgage will be paid soon.
That is our one of our many blessings, no house payment!


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## Janderso

Tozguy said:


> The psychological impact of going from living off new earned money to living off our savings was traumatizing


I'm already having palpitations.


----------



## Papa Charlie

Janderso said:


> Hopefully that mortgage will be paid soon.
> That is our one of our many blessings, no house payment!



All toll I have between my 401, Catchup and After Tax Roth I have 31% every two weeks going towards my Retirement, plus the 11% the company is contributing. Boeing has one of the best benefit packages that I have ever received. Doesn't leave much to live on, but it is getting me to retirement.

Sadly, the mortgage will be in the budget to the end. Unless I live another 30 years. Just one of those things. But I should be OK as long as the financial world doesn't crash or they pull our SS benefits. I have been aggressively putting as much as possible in my retirement funds after 2008 which wiped out almost everything.

But that is in the past. Now I am looking forward to my retirement. Wife made a rather startling announcement, she would like us to take a look at Florida for retirement location. Something I never thought she would suggest as neither of us like excessive heat. I know she would like to have a pool again and she is done with the loom and gloom of the Northern PNW. The good part of that is that it puts me closer to more reasonably priced used equipment. Yes, I am one track minded, confirmed by the wife. 

We will see. I would like to check out Tennessee or Kentucky too, but she is not thrilled about the idea. I really don't care where we end up as long as I can have my shop, some space around me, doesn't have to be acres and she is happy. I have no family left and she only has her sisters who are tied up with their families. So we are not bound by family ties.


----------



## Janderso

Papa Charlie said:


> All toll I have between my 401, Catchup and After Tax Roth I have 31% every two weeks going towards my Retirement, plus the 11% the company is contributing. Boeing has one of the best benefit packages that I have ever received. Doesn't leave much to live on, but it is getting me to retirement.
> 
> Sadly, the mortgage will be in the budget to the end. Unless I live another 30 years. Just one of those things. But I should be OK as long as the financial world doesn't crash or they pull our SS benefits. I have been aggressively putting as much as possible in my retirement funds after 2008 which wiped out almost everything.
> 
> But that is in the past. Now I am looking forward to my retirement. Wife made a rather startling announcement, she would like us to take a look at Florida for retirement location. Something I never thought she would suggest as neither of us like excessive heat. I know she would like to have a pool again and she is done with the loom and gloom of the Northern PNW. The good part of that is that it puts me closer to more reasonably priced used equipment. Yes, I am one track minded, confirmed by the wife.
> 
> We will see. I would like to check out Tennessee or Kentucky too, but she is not thrilled about the idea. I really don't care where we end up as long as I can have my shop, some space around me, doesn't have to be acres and she is happy. I have no family left and she only has her sisters who are tied up with their families. So we are not bound by family ties.


Everett is a nice place if you like the weather. beautiful country that's for sure, especially when the sun shines!!
Florida is a very popular retirement state. August is very hot.
Tennessee and Kentucky are beautiful places to live. I would love to find a home and shop outside a fair size town.
Unfortunately, my kids and grandchildren are here.
My folks moved to Arizona when they were my age. Dad never left. We moved my mother here a couple years ago.
That meant the burden of helping my folks fell to me and my wife traveling to AZ way too often. Our expense, my vacation time.
I won't do that to my kids.


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## Aukai

It was traumatizing for me to stay at work. That door had no chance of hitting me in the ass on the way out


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## matthewsx

That’s really something to keep in mind as we age. Many of our parents had little or no time caring for the previous generation as life expectancy was shorter. I’m into my 20th year taking care of my mom with each year taking on more responsibility.

I won’t do that to our daughter.

While it has been a blessing having mom close I have first hand experience of the difference between planning and leaving it up to others.

John


----------



## ACHiPo

Aukai said:


> It was traumatizing for me to stay at work. That door had no chance of hitting me in the ass on the way out


I thought you were still riding ambulances?


----------



## Aukai

I went back for non emergency medical transport, retired from 911, that is all done


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## Alcap

Now being retired 7 months , talking with friends and family I listen to how some through no fault of their own they will be waiting until late sixties to retire , others have spent instead of saving and those too will be waiting. I feel very fortunate that I worked for a company that talked about retirement , saving . Those early meetings that had representatives from the credit union come in showing how you start saving a little bit it compounds through the years . Then when they offered the 401k they had more information and meetings . Retirement isn’t what you think of when your in your twenties or thirties unless your told . My own brother is going to retire this December at 70 1/2 , he told me he never thought about retirement until a few years ago . Ive talked with my kids and their spouses about saving and the difference when you start early . Most here in the USA won’t have defined pension plans so it makes saving in more important


----------



## ArmyDoc

As you talk about anf plan for retirement,  be sure to talk to your kids.  Most of us have kids who are in their 30s.  Now is the time they should be investing for THEIR retirement.


----------



## jimbo fury

Janderso said:


> In a few months I'll be 64. I just looked at my Social Security statement.
> They have full retirement at 66 and 6 months.
> There is a benefits slide gadget that lets you dial in the anticipated month of retirement.
> Example, if I retire at 65 and 6 months, the difference is <$245 a month. If I retire a year early, I will receive $31,500 I would not have received if I wait another year.
> You all know where I'm going. It would take 11 years to break even for the amount I received for the one year of early retirement.
> Since this is supplemental to our overall retirement plan, it's looking pretty tempting.
> 
> Did you go out early? Do you regret it?
> Do you wish you went out early?
> Are you thinking along my same lines?
> Am I an idiot for thinking to go out early
> 
> I know many of you are retired, I'd like to talk about it.
> Thanks,
> Jeff


Retire as early as possible. You never know when you are gonna kick it. Most people don't even come close to living out their planned retirement lives. No wife, no kids, I'm retiring before 50 whether I can afford it or not! You took risks your whole life why not at the end?


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## 7milesup

jimbo fury said:


> Retire as early as possible. You never know when you are gonna kick it. Most people don't even come close to living out their planned retirement lives. No wife, no kids, I'm retiring before 50 whether I can afford it or not! You took risks your whole life why not at the end?


Well, if you can't afford it you won't be "retiring".


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## T Bredehoft

I retired at 72, after 21 years with the same company, I knew there was a company sponsored "profit-sharing" plan, but I had no idea what my  share would be.  I would be getting a monthy from Social Security, Figured with the house paid for we could get by.  Profit Sharing turned out to be just under a quarter Mil. 2008 took out almost 200,000, but its over 300,000 now and growing about 5 grand a month. My wife of 59 years, 8 months fell to Cancer in Feb, 2020. Soon's Covid's over I'm going to travel.


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## Tozguy

Tom,
Sorry about your wife, after close to 60 years together, must hurt like H.


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## Larry$

I've been self employed my entire life. So no company bennies, 401 etc. I started a Schwab account in 2007. The crash of 2008 was the best thing ever. I had some cash and went all in. Easiest $ I've ever made. No one losses $ when the market crashes as long as you don't sell. Look at the crashes as equities going on sale.  I wish I had started a brokerage account much sooner. Compounding is way better than most people think. Last March was another crash. I couldn't figure out who was going to be a winner and who a looser so I bought $35K of ETFs. in just over a year they have gone up 65%. Lucky. It is best to not try and time the markets. Being a consistent investor will net you about 10% compounded. Start young! Watch out for management fees, they greatly reduce your returns. A Schwab account is free, there are no buying or selling fees, they provide good book keeping, all available on line. NO, I don't get a commission, damn. 

I ran my own business all my life, I'll run my retirement what remains of my life.


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## Papa Charlie

T Bredehoft said:


> I retired at 72, after 21 years with the same company, I knew there was a company sponsored "profit-sharing" plan, but I had no idea what my  share would be.  I would be getting a monthy from Social Security, Figured with the house paid for we could get by.  Profit Sharing turned out to be just under a quarter Mil. 2008 took out almost 200,000, but its over 300,000 now and growing about 5 grand a month. My wife of 59 years, 8 months fell to Cancer in Feb, 2020. Soon's Covid's over I'm going to travel.


Very sorry to hear that you lost your wife. My wife's health is not the best. I am thankful every day that she is still with me. I know that each day is a blessing that I should cherish every day that we have. But we really never know. Who is to say which one of us will go first.


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## Aukai

I have Schwab, and it is managed by another associated firm  @ 1%, and TEFs @.5%.


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## 7milesup

I think I mentioned this before but I had Schwab's RoboAdvisor.  They kept 7% of my money in cash, and it eventually climbed to 9%.  I complained about it and they said to bad, that is how it works.  I pulled all my money out and took it to Vanguard.  Then I get a call from Lance Larkin from Schwab chewing me out about how they could have 'worked with me to find a solution'.  I had mentioned that I complained about it numerous times. He then proceeded to read me the riot act. After dealing with his jackwagon attitude, I will never do business with Schwab again.  Too many other good outfits out there for me to be treated like that.  screw them.


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## Aukai

My (Schwab)side broker is local to Hawaii, and California, and is usually 2% above grade. The new corporate tax proposals are being watched closely.


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## Larry$

Investing guru's way over estimate their value. If they were as good as they claim, they'd all be billionaires and not investment BS'rs!
I ran the #'s to see what their fees actually cost. 1% on an account that starts with just $5K and adds $100/ month for only 15 years will cost you about $20K by the end point. Assumes a 10% average return, typical market return for the last 100 years. It gets even worse using a broker to invest your $ into a mutual fund. The broker typically takes 4 to 6% of your money as a fee before the rest is invested. You don't see that in the paperwork! Annuities have very high fees and are best avoided. I've never met a broker I would trust! My brother-in-law is a broker.


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## Janderso

19 Days!


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## Janderso

Alcap said:


> Now being retired 7 months , talking with friends and family I listen to how some through no fault of their own they will be waiting until late sixties to retire , others have spent instead of saving and those too will be waiting. I feel very fortunate that I worked for a company that talked about retirement , saving . Those early meetings that had representatives from the credit union come in showing how you start saving a little bit it compounds through the years . Then when they offered the 401k they had more information and meetings . Retirement isn’t what you think of when your in your twenties or thirties unless your told . My own brother is going to retire this December at 70 1/2 , he told me he never thought about retirement until a few years ago . Ive talked with my kids and their spouses about saving and the difference when you start early . Most here in the USA won’t have defined pension plans so it makes saving in more important


Alcap,
It’s been a year now.
Do you still enjoy retirement?


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## savarin

whoo hoo 19 days, way to go


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## mmcmdl

Janderso said:


> 19 Days!


I may be retired as of a month ago , I just don't know . I know I won't be returning to work until at least mid-April though . This past month has been pretty damn boring in my eyes , be it the weather , not being able to do what I like , whatever . Little odd jobs around the house keep me going at this point , but I really need to get out and do some real outside strenuous work .


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## Janderso

mmcmdl said:


> I may be retired as of a month ago , I just don't know . I know I won't be returning to work until at least mid-April though . This past month has been pretty damn boring in my eyes , be it the weather , not being able to do what I like , whatever . Little odd jobs around the house keep me going at this point , but I really need to get out and do some real outside strenuous work .


How are you Dave?
Health wise.


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## Janderso

savarin, signature >>"*Asian 9x20, some rusty files and a hammer"
I just noticed it. =funny guy!*


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## mmcmdl

I'm fine as of now . Into the chemo for 3 months and then the operation . Little tired but still going strong .


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## Papa Charlie

19 Day's! Congrats Jeff. 

My last day was yesterday. Turned in my computer and phone. Slept much better last night than I have for some time.


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## Just for fun

Congratulations Jeff and Papa Charlie on retirement.   I've been retired for 6 month and love it! 

Mmcmdl, Glad to here things are going OK.   I hope it continues that way.


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## Janderso

Papa Charlie said:


> 19 Day's! Congrats Jeff.
> 
> My last day was yesterday. Turned in my computer and phone. Slept much better last night than I have for some time.


That's wonderful news.

I'm going to *miss my gas card*, cell phone and pay checks!!


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## mmcmdl

Janderso said:


> I'm going to *miss my gas card*, cell phone and pay checks!!


No gas card here . Haven't used the company cell phone , but yeah , I haven't been paid in 6 weeks !


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## Alcap

To answer your question , retirement has be pretty good !  The only problem is time goes be very quickly . I just to my wife this morning it’s been 13 months , can’t believe it !  I didn’t get as much done to the house as i thought i would and realize I’m not going to replace the windows & siding that i thought I was going to do . Were planing to have it done in spring so I took some money from the 401k and I‘ll take the rest next year to keep it in the lower tax bracket .Congratulations !!!!!!!!


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## Papa Charlie

Janderso said:


> That's wonderful news.
> 
> I'm going to *miss my gas card*, cell phone and pay checks!!


What was strange is when I left the building, and the door shut behind me. I realized that my ID would no longer allow me to enter. Funny feeling. Similarly, I have used my cell phone for my alarm for the past 4 years, same phone. When I got up yesterday and turned off the alarm, I went in and deleted the setting. Oddly, that felt like I had lost something. I enjoyed my work up until about 3 years ago when they started this Critical Race stuff and management changed. I am actually a little sad to leave but looking forward to the next chapter. Like starting a new job, it is change and will take a little time to settle in.


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## savarin

Been retired 10 years and have loved every second of it.
Time goes by extremely fast if you have enough interests and learn new things.
Relish every second of of it.


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## Janderso

savarin said:


> Time goes by extremely fast if you have enough interests and learn new things.
> Relish every second of of it.


When you think about it, I'm turning 65. In 15 years I'll be 80.
I just put myself in a funk.......

I agree man, you have to enjoy the time we have. Stay healthy.


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## mmcmdl

Janderso said:


> In 15 years I'll be 80.


Only in your mind .   I'll still be out cutting trees down ........................................at least I hope to be .


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## Aukai

Jokingly I told my wife that if she ever came home, and asked me " well, what did you do all day" I'd knock her out. Remember I said jokingly....


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## rabler

A little over 2 years into retirement.  I could never go back.  Atlanta traffic.  Dealing with the office routine.  Having to keep a calendar of meetings, appointments.  The ONLY thing I miss is decent internet.

@Janderso, @Papa Charlie, Enjoy it to the fullest!


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## jbolt

Janderso said:


> When you think about it, I'm turning 65. In 15 years I'll be 80.
> I just put myself in a funk.......
> 
> I agree man, you have to enjoy the time we have. Stay healthy.


My dad waited until he was 72 to retire. 42 years at the same place. He didn't need to but the average retirement benefit payout for his peers was 2 years. He was afraid if he retired he would die within a couple of years.  On his 80th birthday he told me he should have retired sooner. He turned 90 this year and still active and healthy.

Take it while you can and enjoy every second of if.


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## Tozguy

jbolt said:


> Take it while you can and enjoy every second of if.


Been doing that for over 16 years now and enjoy life tremendously. My wife and hobbies keep me healthy. The first year or two were funky but once I got in the new rhythm there was no looking back!


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## jbolt

mmcmdl said:


> Only in your mind .   I'll still be out cutting trees down ........................................at least I hope to be .


My mom, who passed several years ago at 80 would always tell me her mind still felt 20 and would get frustrated when her body couldn't keep up.

 I have days my mind still feels 12, my body feels 25 and I am rudely reminded that I am closer to 60 than 50 when I peel myself out of bed the next morning!


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## Janderso

jbolt said:


> My dad waited until he was 72 to retire. 42 years at the same place. He didn't need to but the average retirement benefit payout for his peers was 2 years. He was afraid if he retired he would die within a couple of years.  On his 80th birthday he told me he should have retired sooner. He turned 90 this year and still active and healthy.
> 
> Take it while you can and enjoy every second of if.


Good for him!!


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