# Well... I finally did it.  PM-833TV (now in my shop!)



## Skowinski

I posted a thread almost 3 months ago asking about buying a PM mill, at the time wasn't sure about a bench mill or a small knee mill.  I finally made a decision and ordered an 833TV.  Thought I'd start this thread to chronicle my experiences with PM and with their milling machine, and to no doubt ask stupid questions LOL.  Thanks so much to everyone who has responded to my private messages asking questions about their machines, and thanks to all who posted in my (now old) thread.

I ordered the better R8 collet set, 0-1/2 keyless drill chuck, clamping set, and the base with the mill, to get me started.

I decided not to order a vise, and didn't order the DRO or power feeds, yet.    First up, I wanted to get what I presume will be a better vise than I could get through PM (Homge), with not breaking the bank any worse in mind.  I've been looking at the Glacern GSV-440 (4") or GSV-550 (5") standard vises.  Does anyone have experience with these, would you recommend them?


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## mksj

Great choice, and a manageable mill size. On the vise, lots of controversy as to the "best" size, but I would recommend a 6" CNC or compact (shorter) type. Width is important, and much larger availability of parallels, jaws, etc. What I read in the past is the Shar's  vices are pretty much the same as the Glacern, there may be some QC differences, they are about 20% less. A true CNC type vise (those that can be stacked side by side with no feet extending out) tends to be shorter in overall length, which may be desirable. Personally I would spring for a Kurt DX6, I compared it's dimensions to other standard type vise and it is about the same length as the GSV-550. The DX6 is about 2-3" shorter than a standard 6" vise (non-CNC style). A bit more cost than a 5", but it is the center of the mill and should last a lifetime even if you change your mill down the line. FYI, if you do decide to go with a DRO, you can go cheap direct from China with glass scales, or order from the UK and get magnetic scales with something like the ES12B or C style for a lot less than purchasing in the US. Ultimately you will probably want to add or make drives for your Z and X axis. I use a keyless chuck on my mill, I went with a 5/8" chuck just to have a bit more range for larger drills.








						Kurt DX6 | 6" Machine Vise 9" Opening
					

Our 6" Kurt Vise DX6 combines and adds to the top features from our other state-of-the-art Kurt Milling Machine Vises. Shop for your Kurt DX6 here.




					allindustrial.com
				








						Kurt DX6 CrossOver 6" Vise with 9" Opening
					

Shars Tool




					www.shars.com
				




If on a tight budget look at the Shar's CNC, although this one is 3" longer than the DX6.





						6" 660U CNC Milling Machine Vise 0.0004"
					

<!--<span style="font-family: Verdana,Tahoma,Arial" class="Apple-style-span"><ul><li>Jaw Width: 6"</li><li>Jaw Opening (Inner Jaw): 6.25"</li><li>Jaw Opening (Outer Jaw): 15"</li><li>Jaw Height: 1-3/4"</li><li>Bed Height: 3.189" +/-0.0005"</li><li>Jaw Pla




					www.shars.com


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## rogerl

Look at the scratch and dent area for Kurt work holding web page. They sometimes have the DX6 and the DX4  in the scratch and dent area. I bought a DX4 scratch and dent vise and I can not find an imperfection on it.









						Scratch & Dent Archives
					

From time to time we have factory flaws or returns that we can offer at a discounted price.  The flaws will not effect the functionality of the product.




					www.kurtworkholding.com
				





Roger L


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## Skowinski

Thanks for the comments on vises guys.  I'll look further into my options before I decide.

Anyone who has a 833TV have a manual for it?  The PM website has the 833T manual linked for both 833's.  Much is shared between these two mills, but the head, drive system, and controls for the motor are different.


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## Skowinski

Ordered Monday, shipped today!  Getting excited - should be delivered sometime next week.


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## DavidR8

I have a 4” Glacern vise on my mill. 
I went 4” because anything larger was too large for the table. Either overhanging the column side and consuming Y axis travel or off the front side and limiting utility because the Y axis has to be cranked in so far to get under the spindle. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Skowinski

DavidR8 said:


> I have a 4” Glacern vise on my mill.
> I went 4” because anything larger was too large for the table. Either overhanging the column side and consuming Y axis travel or off the front side and limiting utility because the Y axis has to be cranked in so far to get under the spindle....



Thanks, yes I've been looking at dimensions.  PM sells both 4 and 5 inch vises for this machine, but the 4 looks a better fit.  And - Glacern has some of their vises on something like a summer sale right now...... looks like I could pick up a GSV-440 or 550 for $330-$370, that seems like a pretty good deal.


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## DavidR8

Skowinski said:


> Thanks, yes I've been looking at dimensions.  PM sells both 4 and 5 inch vises for this machine, but the 4 looks a better fit.  And - Glacern has some of their vises on something like a summer sale right now...... looks like I could pick up a GSV-440 or 550 for $330-$370, that seems like a pretty good deal.


I can shoot you some pics of my Glacern if you'd like to see some real-life photos.


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## Skowinski

DavidR8 said:


> I can shoot you some pics of my Glacern if you'd like to see some real-life photos.



Yes please!  I'll PM you.


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## 7milesup

Here is mine with a PM 5" vise on it.


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## ahazi

7milesup said:


> Here is mine with a PM 5" vise on it.


Here is the Kurt DX6 on my PM833T. It does not feel too big or get in the way. If you can get it from the factory direct as a "second" it is a great deal.

Ariel


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## Skowinski

^^ Thanks much for photos showing different size vises on the table, helps a lot.  



Skowinski said:


> .....
> Anyone who has a 833TV have a manual for it?  The PM website has the 833T manual linked for both 833's.  Much is shared between these two mills, but the head, drive system, and controls for the motor are different.



I emailed PM and got a reply a couple of hours later.  Apparently they are working on a separate manual for the TV now and expect it to be ready in a few weeks, in case anyone's interested.


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## Weldingrod1

Btw, a good trick on smaller mills is to saw off/mill the back.coolant channel and fill in with epoxy. That got rid of near an inch of wasted space on my 4" vise!
Note the Kurt's dont have the channel sticking out in the first place ;-)

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Tim9

Skowinski said:


> I posted a thread almost 3 months ago asking about buying a PM mill, at the time wasn't sure about a bench mill or a small knee mill.  I finally made a decision and ordered an 833TV.  Thought I'd start this thread to chronicle my experiences with PM and with their milling machine, and to no doubt ask stupid questions LOL.  Thanks so much to everyone who has responded to my private messages asking questions about their machines, and thanks to all who posted in my (now old) thread.
> 
> I ordered the better R8 collet set, 0-1/2 keyless drill chuck, clamping set, and the base with the mill, to get me started.
> 
> I decided not to order a vise, and didn't order the DRO or power feeds, yet.    First up, I wanted to get what I presume will be a better vise than I could get through PM (Homge), with not breaking the bank any worse in mind.  I've been looking at the Glacern GSV-440 (4") or GSV-550 (5") standard vises.  Does anyone have experience with these, would you recommend them?


Congratulations on the mill. The 833T & 833TV  look like an awesome mills. I started with a RF45 clone. Moved up to a Millrite. And while I really like the Millrite, I also thought the RF45 was a very capable mill. My table was actually a little bigger on the RF45. Only reason I noticed your post is I was looking at the 833T.
It looks like a very, very nice machine. I’m trying to envision a shop rearrangement of my machines here now to see if I can move my RF45 here. Don’t “need” it, but would like it here. Seems like I’m always working on one machine or the other. Always handy having backups.
On a side note. I found a used Kurt 4” on EBay. It’s like night and day compared to the Asian vises. I have 2 of those Chinese vises I purchase from Shars and there is no comparison in my opinion. The Kurt is SOooooo much more ridgid. Heard good things about the Glacern. But can’t comment because I never used one. That’s said, I’m totally sold on the Kurt vises now. Just great vises.


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## Janderso

Congratulations. That looks like a high quality mill. 5 year warranty!


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## wrmiller

Tim9 said:


> Congratulations on the mill. The 833T & 833TV  look like an awesome mills. I started with a RF45 clone. Moved up to a Millrite. And while I really like the Millrite, I also thought the RF45 was a very capable mill. My table was actually a little bigger on the RF45. Only reason I noticed your post is I was looking at the 833T.
> It looks like a very, very nice machine. I’m trying to envision a shop rearrangement of my machines here now to see if I can move my RF45 here. Don’t “need” it, but would like it here. Seems like I’m always working on one machine or the other. Always handy having backups.
> On a side note. I found a used Kurt 4” on EBay. It’s like night and day compared to the Asian vises. I have 2 of those Chinese vises I purchase from Shars and there is no comparison in my opinion. The Kurt is SOooooo much mo ridgid. Heard good things about the Glacern. But can’t comment because I never used one. That’s said, I’m totally sold on the Kurt vises now. Just great vises.



As luck would have it, when I bought my 935 there was a gentleman here who was selling a near pristine 5" Kurt. Love this vise.


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## Skowinski

It's here!


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## DavidR8

Awesome! 
Looking forward to pics


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## Skowinski

Driver was so nice to back his big truck down the driveway and unload right into the shop, man what a load off my shoulders.  I was sweating for weeks planning how to get it from the street at the end of the driveway, down a ~100 ft. gravel driveway, and into the shop.


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## Skowinski




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## Skowinski




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## wrmiller

Love your garage dude! I used to be into motorcycles big time, especially rice rockets and corner carvers. 

Post lots of pics of your new toys!


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## Skowinski

First question that maybe someone with an 833 on the PM stand can help with?  Trying to figure out how far out from the wall the stand should be.  Once it's on the stand - can anyone give me the measurement from the back of the mills column to the back of the stand?

Need to get it away from the wall enough to clear this shelf.


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## DavidR8

Nice bikes!
I recall the blue and white Suzuki, but I can't remember the exact model...
Oh nice mill stand


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## Skowinski

DavidR8 said:


> Nice bikes!
> I recall the blue and white Suzuki, but I can't remember the exact model...
> Oh nice mill stand



GS1000S - I bought it new when I was 22 years old in 1979.  Only several hundred were brought into the U.S. in 79 and 80, so they are rare machines these days.  It's a wonder it's still around and I never tossed it into a ditch and wadded it up, LOL.

Wes Cooley and Yoshimura made the bike famous:  https://www.roadracingworld.com/new...y-to-appear-at-season-opener-at-road-atlanta/


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## DavidR8

Skowinski said:


> GS1000S - I bought it new when I was 22 years old in 1979.  Only several hundred were brought into the U.S. in 79 and 80, so they are rare machines these days.  It's a wonder it's still around and I never tossed it into a ditch and wadded it up, LOL.
> 
> Wes Cooley and Yoshimura made the bike famous:  https://www.roadracingworld.com/new...y-to-appear-at-season-opener-at-road-atlanta/


Right! I remember that bike in magazines at the time. I was a young whipper-snapper who lapped up anything to do with motorcycles. Superbikes of that era really worked for me. I think it was the fact that they 'look like a motorcycle" that did it for me.


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## Janderso

Nice shop dood!
Nice milling machine.
You kind of suck.


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## Skowinski

Janderso said:


> Nice shop dood!
> Nice milling machine.
> You kind of suck.



LOL, don't hate on me, I have always worked in ****ty dirty hot garages in the summer, and freezing sheds in the winter.  At one point in my life all I had was a motorcycle and a open end shed with a dirt floor and a riding lawnmower to put it in.  

edit: and my only tools were stuffed in an old fishing tackle box.

Been moving towards this shop for 40 years man, and it's gonna be complete.  My plan is to never have to take anything to a welder or machine shop again.


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## wrmiller

Skowinski said:


> GS1000S - I bought it new when I was 22 years old in 1979.  Only several hundred were brought into the U.S. in 79 and 80, so they are rare machines these days.  It's a wonder it's still around and I never tossed it into a ditch and wadded it up, LOL.
> 
> Wes Cooley and Yoshimura made the bike famous:  https://www.roadracingworld.com/new...y-to-appear-at-season-opener-at-road-atlanta/



I had a '81 CBX, grey, with the faring, bags, and the European control kit (rearsets and cafe bars) that I wish I still owned. Put almost 80k miles on that in 2.5 years and stupidly sold it. My last track bike was my '86 GSXR1100. 

There was a time when I owned 4 motorcycles and didn't own a car. I was young then, and all my spare money went into my bikes. Cars were for sissies...


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## Skowinski

After about an hour of working with a prybar and rachet wrench it's out!  Pretty hefty machine... umm... looks heavy.


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## wrmiller

Hah! Years ago, I managed to lift my PM25 onto my bench with my arms/body. Barely. The only way I'd lift that thing is to remove the column and do it in two pieces. If I was younger of course. 

Now I'd just grab the engine hoist and use that.


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## Larry$

The used Jet mill I got came with a 4" import vice that was terrible. Replaced it with a 6" Kurt, way better. I've been known to move the jaw to the back of the movable for large parts. Same can be done on the other end. I've only once made a special set of jaws for a weird part.  My sets of parallels are all 6", the most common size.  The most likely place for me to run out of machine is in the Z. & I've got a 9 X 49 knee machine. A two part vice will give you extra Z and allow you to hold long parts for X travel.


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## Kiwi Canuck

Great to see your mill finally arrived.

Nice bikes, looks like you have the 1979 model GS1000SN.

I have 2 1980 GS1000ST's.

BTW I raced one in NZ for a few years and now manage the World Registry for the GS1000S models. 

FYI, there were approx 7,000 of the SN model and 5,000 of the ST model produced world wide, of those maybe 2,000 made it to North America.

Here's a few pictures, 

Posing with the man himself Wes Cooley a few years back..


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## Skowinski

Kiwi Canuck said:


> Great to see your mill finally arrived.
> 
> Nice bikes, looks like you have the 1979 model GS1000SN.
> 
> I have 2 1980 GS1000ST's.
> 
> BTW I raced one in NZ for a few years and now manage the World Registry for the GS1000S models.
> 
> FYI, there were approx 7,000 of the SN model and 5,000 of the ST model produced world wide, of those maybe 2,000 made it to North America.
> 
> Here's a few pictures,
> 
> Posing with the man himself Wes Cooley a few years back..
> 
> View attachment 335067


Very cool!  You wouldn't happen to be on the GS1000S Facebook group would you?  There's a guy on there, I think in BC, has 2 of those bikes.


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## Kiwi Canuck

Skowinski said:


> Very cool!  You wouldn't happen to be on the GS1000S Facebook group would you?  There's a guy on there, I think in BC, has 2 of those bikes.


No I'm not, but that's probably Trevor from Vancouver Island, he bought a 2nd one recently.

I should probably join facebook, as I've heard the market place is pretty active as well.

If you could send me your VIN, I can add it to the Register,  also engine number if you don't mind.

BTW did you order a vice yet? 
I bought the PM Precision Homge 5" but I'm going to pickup a Kurt DX6's as the Homge is OK but not as good I was expecting.

David.


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## Skowinski

@Kiwi Canuck yes I did order a vise, a Glacern GSV440 on sale, for barely more than the PM Homge vise.  I think it will be fine for just about anything I will need to do.  I'll keep my eye out for a good deal on a larger used Kurt in the meantime.


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## Skowinski

On another note - any advice on wiring this to a plug?  I presume the green/yellow wire with the loop connector is the ground, and the brown and blue wires with spade connectors are 240V power.  I ordered a NEMA 14-50 plug for the mill, and need to wire this power cord into it. (14-50R wall receptable already in place)






The NEMA 14-50 plug and wall receptacle would have a neutral, which I presume I'd just not be using.


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## ahazi

Skowinski said:


> On another note - any advice on wiring this to a plug?  I presume the green/yellow wire with the loop connector is the ground, and the brown and blue wires with spade connectors are 240V power.  I ordered a NEMA 14-50 plug for the mill, and need to wire this power cord into it. (14-50R wall receptable already in place)
> 
> View attachment 335182
> 
> 
> The NEMA 14-50 plug and wall receptacle would have a neutral, which I presume I'd just not be using.
> 
> View attachment 335183


Yes, green/yellow is ground. Brown and blue are 220 volt.

Good luck!
Ariel


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## Skowinski

ahazi said:


> Yes, green/yellow is ground. Brown and blue are 220 volt.
> 
> Good luck!
> Ariel



Thanks, just opened the side panel on the control box and see clearly yellow/green is ground.  Do you know if there is a polarity for the two power wires?  The 14-50 has no apparent polarity, both power blades/slots the same size.


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## ahazi

No polarity. It is AC voltage, just 220 volt generated from the transformer that feeds your house (110-0-110). You are not using the neutral (0) just the 2 phases of 110 volt and because they are 180 degrees opposite to each other you get 110+110=220 volt


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## Skowinski

So still haven't wrestled this thing up onto the stand yet, making sure I have a good plan before I act.

But, I've wired up a power plug while getting ready, and it struck me: there is no on-off switch on this thing.  Maybe they expect people to power it off a wall mounted switch box.  I don't want to get behind the machine to operate an on-off switch like that, so am thinking of getting a switch to mount on the left side of the control box here.  The power cord comes in the top, and there's plenty of room inside, so should be easy.  Anyone done this with an 833?


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## ahazi

You are bringing up a good point.

This is what I did to my 833T (not TV) so I am not sure if it is the best solution for you but might be a partial solution and might help others.

I don't like the rotary switch with a center off position (STOP), clockwise rotation to the left (FWD) and counter clockwise to the right (REV). I think it is *unsafe* as there is no way to quickly STOP the rotation, it is inconvenient to have to turn a rotary switch ON or OFF, can be confusing and error prone when you use a cutter that needs to be used in CCW (REV) direction and generally stupid for lack of better description... I have seen this on multiple machines (my RF25 had the same problem, I fixed it the same way) so this is not unique to PM.

The way that I solved it for now is the addition of a *magnetic switch* on the main power feed before the rotary switch. This solves all the above problems and is easy to do on the PM833T. My plan is to eventually replace my motor with a 3 phase motor and a VFD but for now I am OK.









This is the 220 volt magnetic switch that I used:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B005W17HSA

With a VFD (as in the 833TV) it is a little bit different as you do not want to switch the main power to the VFD on/off all the time. A better solution will be to modify the 3 position rotary switch with a 2 position switch for forward and reverse and ON push button that works with the STOP switch.

For turning the machine OFF 100%, an additional 2 pole switch to cut off the 220 volt needs to be added. You can use the magnetic switch as I did externally but I don't think that it is a good idea to use this to turn the motor (and the VFD) on/off while using the mill. I think that a better solution is to add a 2 pole switch inside the box facing the side (if there is space) and it will become the master switch. You can just add this and not modify the rotary switch if you can live with it.

Here are some switches you can use:
https://smile.amazon.com/Twidec-Position-Wear-resistant-Warranty-4210BK/dp/B07VJ43B7C
https://smile.amazon.com/Twidec-Rocker-Toggle-Position-Waterproof/dp/B07LBMZT3T
https://www.mcmaster.com/8001K85/

Ariel


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## Skowinski

Thanks for the information @ahazi - I may need to plug this thing in to find out, but now that I'm looking at the control panel again wondering if the lower left rotation direction switch is "off" when in the middle position, like it is now.  Maybe that icon of a cutter is the off position*.

*confirmed by an email to PM, which was answered immediately.  I still want to add an independent main on/off switch on the left side of the control panel.

"I think that a better solution is to add a 2 pole switch inside the box facing the side (if there is space) and it will become the master switch. You can just add this and not modify the rotary switch if you can live with it."

^^^I think this is what I'll do.


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## Skowinski

Big progress today.  Got the beast off the pallet, required lots of fiddling around and adjusting things.


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## Skowinski

Made a temporary stand with 4x4s.


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## Skowinski




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## Mr Mike

Looks like that machine might just be what I am looking for... 
Congrats man, I'm in the market for a mill too... I just have no idea what one to get yet. But I'm jelious you lucky dog.

That a sweet looking mill, and no doubt capable of most everything i bet.


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## Skowinski

Mr Mike, I think it is going to be perfect for my shop.  Just don't take 3 months to decide, like I did, LOL... 

It's now bolted down and I'm working on installing the handles and vise.  






And, in it's new home between the lathe and the welder.


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## Mr Mike

Skowinski said:


> Mr Mike, I think it is going to be perfect for my shop.  Just don't take 3 months to decide, like I did, LOL...
> 
> It's now bolted down and I'm working on installing the handles and vise.
> 
> View attachment 336036
> 
> 
> And, in it's new home between the lathe and the welder.
> 
> View attachment 336037



Just how i like my stuff clean and in order.... well except for the order part... still working on that but I like my tools clean... 

Hey on another note did you fill the cement relief lines in then epoxy the floors or their just small to begin with so you can roll stuff over them without hassle... thinking of doing the same look as your floor.  

Thanks Mike


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## Janderso

Nice shop and congratulations.
Your bikes remind me of my 1980 Yamaha XS1100 Special. Fast son of a gun. Best not go into a turn. 
When I started a family, I sold it. When the kids were grown and gone, I bought a new BMW R1200 RT.
Sold it when I hit 60.


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## Skowinski

Mr Mike said:


> Just how i like my stuff clean and in order.... well except for the order part... still working on that but I like my tools clean...
> 
> Hey on another note did you fill the cement relief lines in then epoxy the floors or their just small to begin with so you can roll stuff over them without hassle... thinking of doing the same look as your floor.
> 
> Thanks Mike



The joints between concrete sections were filled about halfway when the guys did the epoxy.  Don't know what they squeezed in there, liquid cement concrete crack filler maybe.



Janderso said:


> Nice shop and congratulations.
> Your bikes remind me of my 1980 Yamaha XS1100 Special. Fast son of a gun. Best not go into a turn.
> When I started a family, I sold it. When the kids were grown and gone, I bought a new BMW R1200 RT.
> Sold it when I hit 60.



Thanks, and get another bike!  I'm 63.  I'll quit riding when I can't climb on one of the damn things anymore.


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## Skowinski

And.... powered it up and ran it!  (hard to see from this photo but it's running at just under 400 rpms)


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## Skowinski

Went to set up to make some first chips and discovered there is no way to hold the spindle while tightening the drawbar.... seems like a weird oversight.  Can't put it in gear like the 833T model.  The splines on the top of the spindle are recessed below the top of the enclosure, and don't have a wrench for it anyway.  No flats on the bottom of the spindle... 

Sent off an email to PM tech support, but in the meantime used a rubber jar holder to try to hold the spindle while I tightened up a 3/8 HSS end mill in the collet.  Not at all satisfactory.


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## ahazi

I suggest you try a small impact driver. It works for me with the 833T in any gear and might work for you too.

Ariel


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## wrmiller

I drilled a short hole in the side of the spindle, and then made a bracket that attached to the head and held a spring loaded pin that would go into the hole of the spindle to hold it while I cranked on the drawbar to tighten a collet. When I released the pin, it backed out of the spindle automatically, and the spring kept the pin from inadvertently engaging the spindle.


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## Skowinski

Thanks for the suggestions guys.  

I think I'm going to find the correct size spline wrench,  maybe modify it.  Looks like the manual for the 833T indicates it's a 28mm 6-spline wrench.

edit: maybe something like this, modify it so it can be lowered onto the spindle from the top









						Spindle Spline Wrench at Grizzly.com
					

Manufactured from steel, this new spline wrench was designed especially for holding the spindle spline on many Chinese made round column, square column, and other like-sized mill/drill machines and the smaller X3 sized machines. This wrench has a 28mm spline on one end for the larger machines...




					www.grizzly.com


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## parshal

I set up an 833TV earlier this year, too.  I tried the spline wrench but found a butterfly impact wrench works much faster.  I have it on a 6' air hose from the ceiling and it's right near the drawbar so it's quick access, too.

For a power switch, I simply used toggle switch on the wall next to a separate 120v switch for lights, DRO, power feeds, etc.

I found the Shars 440 vise to have the largest opening of the 4" vises.  I bought two and use both on the table if I need the extra width which I rarely do.


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## Skowinski

So, a couple of you have mentioned impact wrenches to tighten the drawbar (and presumably, also loosen it).  I can understand how one might work fine.  But, what torque setting is used?  

Obviously you don't want to overtighten it too much, and undertightening it will quickly lead to a problem...  I like to use torque wrenches.


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## wrmiller

My drawbar torque wrench is my arm. Hasn't failed me yet.


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## Skowinski

wrmiller said:


> My drawbar torque wrench is my arm. Hasn't failed me yet.



I understand that, after so many years of torquing fasteners I'd bet my arm is calibrated to +/-15% or so.

Just seen way too many destroyed fasteners, broken off bolts down inside the hole they thread into, stripped threads that resulted in hours of work to repair...... so anyway, just snug it up good is the ticket for a drawbar?   If it's motorcycles, I'm a blackbelt.  But, machine shop work, ummm... I just stepped onto the mat for the first time.


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## ahazi

Skowinski said:


> So, a couple of you have mentioned impact wrenches to tighten the drawbar (and presumably, also loosen it).  I can understand how one might work fine.  But, what torque setting is used?
> 
> Obviously you don't want to overtighten it too much, and undertightening it will quickly lead to a problem...  I like to use torque wrenches.


With the small Bosch electric impact driver that I use now it it is hard to torque way too much as you can feel it and see the rotation. It works very well and I don't have to hold the splined shaft.

I am planning in the future (when I am done with higher priority shop projects) to install a pneumatic wrench but for now the impact driver is working very well for me.


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## Weldingrod1

You should go ahead and make two plywood covers for the left and right side of the table, fitted around the vice. Trust me ;-)
I wish I had made mine a decade earlier!!

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Skowinski

Yes, was just looking at the table the other day and thinking I need to make some kind of covers, before the inevitable happens and I drop something on it....


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## wrmiller

Skowinski said:


> I understand that, after so many years of torquing fasteners I'd bet my arm is calibrated to +/-15% or so.
> 
> Just seen way too many destroyed fasteners, broken off bolts down inside the hole they thread into, stripped threads that resulted in hours of work to repair...... so anyway, just snug it up good is the ticket for a drawbar?   If it's motorcycles, I'm a blackbelt.  But, machine shop work, ummm... I just stepped onto the mat for the first time.



I snug the drawbar, then give it a short, quick pull to tighten. Larger end mills and/or if I'm taking heavier cuts I'll give the wrench an extra pull.

I have good collets (PM Ultra Precision set), and buy as good a quality end mills as I can afford. I figure that over tightening could possibly do as much or more damage than too little tightening. I could be wrong, and maybe I'll find out some day.


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## NC Rick

Skowinski said:


> View attachment 334930
> 
> 
> View attachment 334931


A really cool Suzuki in there too!


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## Skowinski

NC Rick said:


> A really cool Suzuki in there too!



3 Suzukis in the shop, a 96 DR350S, an 04 Hayabusa, and a 79 GS1000S.  The GS is about to start a crankshaft up restoration back to original condition.

And, some of the first chips!  Still haven't trammed the head, or indicated the vise, just playing around with a block of aluminum.


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## NC Rick

Chips are good!  I remember when the GS was just in the dealers and I wanted one in the worst way!  I have had some DR 350s and presently own a couple DR650s.  Motor bikes and machine tools.  Life is good.  Congratulations!


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## Skowinski

Finally got around to checking the tram on this 833. Been so busy around this new house and shop it took 2 months to get to this, uggh.  This is the first time I've trammed a mill.

  On the x-axis I lowered the tool until about 0.100" showing, picked a point on the table, zeroed one indicator, rotated the device to put the other indicator in the same spot and zeroed it.  I raised the device, lowered it again until one indicator was zero and read the other one - looks like I'm off by about 6 thousandths over 6 inches.  I guess that's not too bad, a thou per inch, but probably should try to get it closer.





	

		
			
		

		
	
I

Then rotated to check the y-axis.  Went through the same procedure and looks like this is out about 4 thousandths over 6 inches.  Since this is a bench mill the only way to fix this is to shim the column I guess, but I'm wondering if this amount is worth it?


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## ahazi

Skowinski said:


> I guess that's not too bad, a thou per inch, but probably should try to get it closer.



It is pretty easy to bring it to zero on the X axis, just release the nuts and rotate it to zero. It will move as you tighten the nuts but you can get it very close after few iterations. 1 mil per inch is *20 mil* over 20 inch, I think it is too much. I adjusted my PM833 to very close to zero.



Skowinski said:


> Then rotated to check the y-axis.  Went through the same procedure and looks like this is out about 4 thousandths over 6 inches.  Since this is a bench mill the only way to fix this is to shim the column I guess, but I'm wondering if this amount is worth it?


You can shim the vice on the Y axis and take away the slight error. Shiming the column looks to me like a very extensive hit and miss job.

Good luck!
Ariel


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## Skowinski

ahazi said:


> It is pretty easy to bring it to zero on the X axis, just release the nuts and rotate it to zero. It will move as you tighten the nuts but you can get it very close after few iterations. 1 mil per inch is *20 mil* over 20 inch, I think it is too much. I adjusted my PM833 to very close to zero.
> 
> 
> You can shim the vice on the Y axis and take away the slight error. Shiming the column looks to me like a very extensive hit and miss job.
> 
> Good luck!
> Ariel



Hmmm... never thought about shimming the vise.  I suppose that would work the same as shimming the column.


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## Larry$

Skowinski said:


> I suppose that would work the same as shimming the column.


As long as you always use the vice! It is common to clamp work, fixtures, rotary tables, spin indexer etc. directly to the table. I don't think you would want to shim those each time you use them. 
Both your X & Y seem way too far off. Time for some serious adjusting. No such thing as perfect but .001 in 6" seems like as far off as you'd want to be. Less is doable & desirable with a few more tries.


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## ArmyDoc

What kind of flooring do you have in your shop?


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## davidpbest

You buy this precision mill and don't want to get precision alignment?  Seriously?  Take the time to tram the mill including shimming the column.  A good tram is 0.0005 (that's 5/10ths) around a six inch circle.


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## mksj

When tramming the head make sure your head gibs are adjusted properly and the head is locked solidly, otherwise you can also see some nod in the head. As time goes on the gibs will wear faster on the bottom due to the the weight of the head and the nod becomes more noticeable. On CNC machines they often will use a counter weight system for the head, this should also decrease the wear on the lower portion of the gib, Certainly in the X dimension I would be withing 0.0005" at 6". There can be minor variations in the table and also the vise when mounted. You can also try doing a skim cut on a block and measure the corners for height/block uniformity. I was just surface milling a block 7075 and dimensions stayed uniform in the X and Y. In this case the X is 14" plus the length of the 4" surface mill and the block dimensions stayed within 0.0005", on a knee mill you have a bit more flexibility in the adjustments as well as rigidity.


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## Skowinski

ArmyDoc said:


> What kind of flooring do you have in your shop?



Epoxy coated concrete.


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## Skowinski

I probably do need to look at the gibs on the column.  But, did have it locked when I checked this first time.

edit: @davidpbest just watched that video, thanks, man for a beginner that looks scary, I'd for sure screw up somehow, then what?  lol...


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## ArmyDoc

Skowinski said:


> Epoxy coated concrete.


Looks nice!  Did you do it yourself, or hire someone?


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## Skowinski

ArmyDoc said:


> Looks nice!  Did you do it yourself, or hire someone?



It was done when the retirement house was built.  Worked in too many worn out bare concrete floor garages with oil stains everywhere over the years.  It's nice.


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## ahazi

davidpbest said:


> You buy this precision mill and don't want to get precision alignment?  Seriously?  Take the time to tram the mill including shimming the column.  A good tram is 0.0005 (that's 5/10ths) around a six inch circle.


David, thanks for the link. I saw it before but did not feel like watching a long video... Stephan always does amazing work. Actually using the epoxy the way he demonstrates it, is relatively easy. My PM833 is pretty much on the mark on the Y axis and tramming the the X axis was easy.

I used a similar device to the SST gizmo shown here and it really makes traming a very fast and easy process as long as you don't have to fix the column alignment.

Ariel


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