# Help Me Keep My SB 9A



## Phil3 (Feb 1, 2014)

I admit, I am getting a little jealous of some newer lathes, but perhaps I am just not giving my 1946-47 Southbend 9A with 4-1/2 bed enough of a chance.  I rebuilt it (but did not paint), and it works OK.  The plain slotted iron head stock bearings have around .015 - .002" slop, if the spindle is leveraged up and down, and maybe that already is worn out.  I tried getting the shims out, but those things are all but welded in the gap.  I could begin to even budge them without cause damage to the headstock casting and shims.  The ways are worn, but not too bad.  I am getting a bit frustrated with the small spindle bore, inability to use the common 5C collets vs the more costly (and less capable) 3C collets that fit the lathe.  The tiny dials for the cross feed and compound are testing my eyes.  The open bottom gearbox leaks terribly, causing me to wonder if any oil stays on anything.  Mine has just a total of 6 speeds, for a max rpm of about 600, but believe I can get the optional dual pulley setup to boost that to around 1200, which I hope works with the plain bearings.  My lathe still needs a steady rest, follower rest, and probably could use a better tailstock as the spindle in mind is quite worn.  I understand overhauling this piece could be difficult.  

Are there reasonable cost steps that can be taken to overcome some of these things that perhaps people have already done?  I would like to know what paths you have taken.  I have to consider the cost vs a newer lathe.  

Thanks.

Phil


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## GK1918 (Feb 1, 2014)

Dont know If I can help Phil, all I say is thats a well respected lathe and long beds are kind of rare.  We have two 9A long bed war babys that are
like day and night.  And then back in the day the old timers running lathes loose as a goose held to gether with c clamps did amazing work.
I dont know what to say other than the perfect machine will be the one in a crate.  I guess something used sometimes abused is to be expected
so we work around it.  good luck   and yes the small dials  totally unreadable so we use indicators.
sam


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## fastback (Feb 1, 2014)

I'm with Sam. These lathe's take a licking and keep on ticking (turning).  Now you say your tailstock shaft is worn.  I'm not sure what you mean.  If it has movement like its trying to turn when you do any drilling it will most likely be the keyway.  This can be fixed by installing a new key.    I had this problem on my 10L and made the repair.  I still need to change the key in my 9B.

As for spindle slop do you mean .015 or .0015 to .002 if its .0015 to .002 it's within specs. 


Reading the dials are a problem, but as already said make up some holders for dial indicators. They are relatively cheap and do a great job. 

I think you will find that you have a greater degree of threading capabilities over many of the newer models.  You do not need to change gears as you would need to with the Chinese models.  You have probably somewhere around 45 pitches without making any changes. If you need to do metric threads you can get transposing gears.   

The one area I would agree with you is the limited size of the spindle, 3/4 inch is on the smaller size. Tha'st why I went to the 10L, it has a 1 3/8 inch spindle hole.  One thing you can do is pick up a 5C collet chuck. I have the 3C's on my 9B and the 5C's on the 10L.


Other that the spindle hole size the 9A is a fine lathe and can do some real nice work.  Your longer bed allows longer pieces and the 3/4 inch become less of an issue.  

Paul


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## Phil3 (Feb 1, 2014)

On the tailstock, the shaft that has measurement markings on it looks to have some looseness in the bore.  It does not turn.  But, if you push up and down on it, an indicator will show .003" lateral movement, with the shaft extended out to the 1" mark.  It is worse the further the shaft is extended with measurements taken further out.  I admit, I don't know how bad .003" is.  Yes, spindle slop is .002".  The only thing I see with the indicators vs the dial, is that an indicator is 1" and if I need move movement than that?  I do have a direct reading dial for the cross slide, but need to make a part or two as the larger dial interferes with the slide itself when extended out far enough.  

I will look into a 5C collet chuck.  No need for those collets on my mill as it uses some bizarre XX or YY collets, but the 5Cs are common and cheap, and are usable in a Collet Block set, plus I like the capacity.

Phil


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## ScrapMetal (Feb 2, 2014)

Phil,

If you are interested there is a "kit" for a 5C collet chuck.  I'm planning on getting/making one of these when I find the time.  Link: http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA21.html

-Ron


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## GK1918 (Feb 2, 2014)

Movement in the tail stock.   .003,  thats not bad, we simply lock it slightly putting a little drag on it.  I wouldnt worry about the .002 on the headstock
 that changes with oil and getting warmed up.  Idicators, they do have them longer but 1 inch travel is good enough, its all where you mount it.
Small head stock bores. Thats life with just about all lathes then,  you just have to be creative.  Think this over; to thread a two inch dia. 10 foot long
shaft on a 9A?  Hint who says the tail stock has to be on the lathe?   creativity. Collets? good way to break the bank. get a good 4 jaw. (only my
opinion.  you will do fine just the way it is.
sam


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## Ray C (Feb 2, 2014)

A few words if I may since I struggled with this about 5 years ago... and they might surprise you...

The quick answer:  Probably, you should stick with your lathe...

I had an older machine that was worn out when I got it.  In hindsight, I lost big money on that thing but, learned a whole lot of valuable information and developed a lot of skill.  By learning to work-around the little quirks, you're developing your machining skills.

More importantly though, ask yourself:  "is the machine really screwing you up and if it is, what are the consequences?"

The initial repairs to my old machine were probably the most fruitful.  After that, everything else was money (about $600) down the drain that only made it look better -and not perform better.  The eureka moment happened when I realized that, despite my best efforts, there was an element of uncertainty with the lathe -and it caused about 1 in 3 parts to end-up in the scrap pile.  Since I was staring to work for a local marina, this was unacceptable because sometimes they need the part in 24 hours (i.e. it's very expensive to keep a boat in dry dock and they work like crazy to get them back in the water quickly).

So ask yourself, is a new lathe something you just want to have or, is it something you NEED to have?   Spinning a lathe in reverse (something you cannot do safely with a SB9) saves me a lot of time.  In your case, is that just helpful or is it a necessity?  Some of the parts I make are faced knobs that must have an even surface.  I don't know if a SB9 has power crossfeed but anyhow, to me, that is a necessity -not a "nice to have".  I need (fairly frequently) to hold tolerances within a half thou (which was pure guess work with my old lathe) do you?  Is it a necessity or entertainment?

My dad was a T&D maker and they had about 5 lathes and 4 mills in the shop.  They were run two shifts per day, usually six days per week.  They were well maintained machines.  On average, they were replaced around 8-10 years (my father worked there for 46 years).  They didn't swap those machines out because it was fun to do.  They did it because it was a necessity!  

-Just be honest with yourself about what you need and what you want.  If your financial situation is tight then by all means, do a very close honest look about what you need vs what you want.


Ray


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## Phil3 (Feb 2, 2014)

It is clear now, from these responses, that I need to look honestly at what I need to accomplish and be inventive about doing it.  I am not so good at doing the latter.  

The lathe is not screwing me up so much, as it is sometimes quite inconvenient.  What I have issues with right now, and possible solutions...  But I welcome other solutions I can apply to the Southbend as workarounds. The Southbend "A" model has a gearbox and power cross slide, so am good with that.

1)  Expensive small 3C collets.  ER-40 collet system or 4 jaw chuck (I have).
2)  Tiny dials on cross slide.  I have a direct reading dial and need to machine a part (lathe) to fit it properly.  The SB can do this.
3)  Tiny compound dial.  Might be able to use another direct reading cross slide dial, make a part, and fit to compound.  Have to check if there is clearance to do this.
4)  Small spindle bore.  Potentially use centers along with steady rest or follower, but still not getting how to thread a long shaft like GK1918 said.  
6)  Coarse measurements on tailstock spindle travel.  Indicator setups can be made to accurately measure the movement of the tailstock.
7)  No way to measure carriage movement.  This can be made and fitted with a dial indicator.  
8)  Limited spindle rpm.  Fit with older Southbend two pulley system or VFD arrangement.

There is an element of just wanting a new lathe.  So yes, I have to carefully evaluate what I need vs what I want.  My skills may not be up to par for making some parts, but at least I can try and if they don't work, can try again without much lost on cost of materials.  

Phil


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## CoopVA (Feb 2, 2014)

Phil, I'm kinda in the same boat as you are.  My SB 9A is pretty rough, but workable.  I still don't fully know what it can or can't do yet because I am just starting out on it.  The good thing is that I really don't have a whole lot of money tied up in it and what I do is no where near enough to get a brand new lathe.  I figure it is better to learn on the South Bend seeing as I would really have to make a big mistake to screw it up... and if I did, I'd be sorely disappointed, but not out a ton of money.  

My plan is to get it running, pick some "easy" beginner basic projects to get my feet wet and learn to use it correctly.  Between reading books, soaking up the info on forums like this and having a friend that is willing to let me pick his brain I think I got a good shot of actually turning out some good stuff over time.

If I can do it, You can too...


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## Ray C (Feb 2, 2014)

I think I know now where you're coming from.  We've all been in this situation a bunch of times...  My honest and heart-felt thoughts are not to spend money you don't have (i.e. don't go unmanageably into credit-card debt to buy something you simply desire) and on the flip side, if you safely and responsibly can afford something, there is nothing wrong with just getting it.  We only live once and it's OK to get things that truly make you happy, keep you occupied and out of trouble...  Once you have met your financial obligations, helped the less fortunate, have an adequate "rainy-day" fund then, it's OK to treat yourself to something.


Ray


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## Phil3 (Feb 2, 2014)

CoopVA said:


> Phil, I'm kinda in the same boat as you are.  My SB 9A is pretty rough, but workable.  I still don't fully know what it can or can't do yet because I am just starting out on it.  The good thing is that I really don't have a whole lot of money tied up in it and what I do is no where near enough to get a brand new lathe.  I figure it is better to learn on the South Bend seeing as I would really have to make a big mistake to screw it up... and if I did, I'd be sorely disappointed, but not out a ton of money.
> 
> My plan is to get it running, pick some "easy" beginner basic projects to get my feet wet and learn to use it correctly.  Between reading books, soaking up the info on forums like this and having a friend that is willing to let me pick his brain I think I got a good shot of actually turning out some good stuff over time.
> 
> If I can do it, You can too...




A person I know is a very experienced tool and die maker who helped me transport my SB when I got it.  At the time, he told me if I didn't buy it, he would.  I have to use mine as is, but I think, after reading all that is here, what is really needed, is time behind the lathe and knowledge.  I too need beginner projects.  I just got some 3D CAD software which I think will help me understand the process and steps of creating the part.  What really helps me are good videos, and am trying to watch as many of those as possible.  One of my first thing to do is make some superior flanges for my Jet 8" grinder.  The stamped washers are hopeless and thought I would try to make something that fits the grinder shaft but also accommodates the more common 7" wheels that are used on surface grinders.  Also a carriage stop for the SB complete with dial indicator.  This is also simple stuff I can test my CAD skills on.  

Phil

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Ray C said:


> I think I know now where you're coming from.  We've all been in this situation a bunch of times...  My honest and heart-felt thoughts are not to spend money you don't have (i.e. don't go unmanageably into credit-card debt to buy something you simply desire) and on the flip side, if you safely and responsibly can afford something, there is nothing wrong with just getting it.  We only live once and it's OK to get things that truly make you happy, keep you occupied and out of trouble...  Once you have met your financial obligations, helped the less fortunate, have an adequate "rainy-day" fund then, it's OK to treat yourself to something.
> 
> 
> Ray



Considering my wife is working, but I am not (and need to), your point is spot-on.  

Phil


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## Halligan142 (Feb 2, 2014)

I pretty much have the same lathe you have.  The 6 spindle speeds are a bit on the slower side, but I've been able to get a good finish on most parts by adjusting my tool grind and feeds so it's a non issue for me at the moment.  The lathes with two step drive pulleys are also plain bearings, but are segmented to deal with oil return at the higher spindle speeds.   Mine also had the small dials.  I installed new large dials on both the cross slide and compound.  I lengthened the cross feed screw by cutting off the old stem, drilling out the gear and using loctite installed an extension I machined to incorporate a bearing and the lengthened dial bushing.   For the compound I re machined the entire screw from scratch and made a bushing to incorporate two needle bearings.  They work great.   I have a video of the procedure on my YouTube channel.  I installed some drip oilers for the countershaft.   Cleaned, painted, and re wicked the machine.  Installed a needle thrust bearing behind the spindle take up nut.  A few other tweaks hear and there and it's in good shape.  You will in time learn the quirks of your machine and be able to get around them.  I have a set of 3c collets, but as I don't really make multiples of a part I don't see them as a necessity.   If you need the accuracy just use a 4 jaw.   The only thing I really don't like is the spindle bore.  Source a steady rest and you can get around that problem also.  The lathe, any lathe, is the cheap part.  It's the tooling that will get you.


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## CoopVA (Feb 2, 2014)

Phil3 said:


> A person I know is a very experienced tool and die maker who helped me transport my SB when I got it.  At the time, he told me if I didn't buy it, he would.  I have to use mine as is, but I think, after reading all that is here, what is really needed, is time behind the lathe and knowledge.  I too need beginner projects.  I just got some 3D CAD software which I think will help me understand the process and steps of creating the part.  What really helps me are good videos, and am trying to watch as many of those as possible.  One of my first thing to do is make some superior flanges for my Jet 8" grinder.  The stamped washers are hopeless and thought I would try to make something that fits the grinder shaft but also accommodates the more common 7" wheels that are used on surface grinders.  Also a carriage stop for the SB complete with dial indicator.  This is also simple stuff I can test my CAD skills on.
> 
> Phil



Yep.  I 3D model in CAD for a living, it really helps if you can visualize what you see on 2D paper in 3D.

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Halligan142 said:


> I pretty much have the same lathe you have.  The 6 spindle speeds are a bit on the slower side, but I've been able to get a good finish on most parts by adjusting my tool grind and feeds so it's a non issue for me at the moment.  The lathes with two step drive pulleys are also plain bearings, but are segmented to deal with oil return at the higher spindle speeds.   Mine also had the small dials.  I installed new large dials on both the cross slide and compound.  I lengthened the cross feed screw by cutting off the old stem, drilling out the gear and using loctite installed an extension I machined to incorporate a bearing and the lengthened dial bushing.   For the compound I re machined the entire screw from scratch and made a bushing to incorporate two needle bearings.  They work great.   I have a video of the procedure on my YouTube channel.  I installed some drip oilers for the countershaft.   Cleaned, painted, and re wicked the machine.  Installed a needle thrust bearing behind the spindle take up nut.  A few other tweaks hear and there and it's in good shape.  You will in time learn the quirks of your machine and be able to get around them.  I have a set of 3c collets, but as I don't really make multiples of a part I don't see them as a necessity.   If you need the accuracy just use a 4 jaw.   The only thing I really don't like is the spindle bore.  Source a steady rest and you can get around that problem also.  The lathe, any lathe, is the cheap part.  It's the tooling that will get you.



Looks like I'm going to have go check those out!  I do want to clean, paint, and re wick mine.  My friend said I should just start using it as is.  I don't agree with him.  I think by going through the process of disassembly , cleaning and re-assembling I'll get a better understanding of the machine.

Didn't mean to hijack your thread there Phil...


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## DAN_IN_MN (Feb 2, 2014)

Keep an eye open for the right one to come a long.


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