# Buying A New Lathe - Need Advice



## krprice84 (Oct 10, 2015)

Ok, so I'm pretty new to machining in general, but I want a lathe. Currently in Alberta there isn't much used.

I have the option to buy a King 10x22 lathe that's almost brand new, for a good price. 1" spindle kind of sucks, change gears for threading kind of sucks but not that bad I guess.

Other choice is to save up anther month or two, maybe sell a gun or two, and buy the Craftex 12x28 cx701, or a similar lathe. 

What I'd like to eventually get into is doing some gunsmith work. I fully realized that both these lathes aren't ideal for this, but I'm ok with that. Maybe upgrade later, but I guess the big question is, is it worth buying a new lathe? The price is obviously way way higher than used, but used isn't really a good option as there aren't many to choose from. 

The kicker is, I have no garage. Whatever I buy needs to be able to be taken downstairs. I could get three people to help, I can put a ramp on the stairs (only about seven steps), etc. But I don't think I can take a thousands pound lathe down there 

Thoughts? Need help, as the king is ready to be sold to me tomorrow, and if I pass it up I don't know another good one will come up soon. I've been watching kijiji (like craigslist) for a while now and not much of anything has come up.

Keep waiting and pass up the king? Or deal with a small spindle and short bed for now?


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## Ken_Shea (Oct 10, 2015)

While not familiar with the King it's presumed to be one of the inexpensive clones. If it were me and the wait would be a short one for the Craftex then wait would be my choice. That said, there is a lot to be learned on any lathe and I've seen some remarkable work done on the King type lathes. As far as moving a heavier lathe one can unload a bunch of weight by removing bolt on components such as the chuck, motor, tail spindle, stand, tool holder etc, that alone can turn them into a manageable weight. I had to disassemble a Bridgeport type mill to get it where it needed to live years ago, it's still there and some time in the near future in need of moving again .


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## Chipper5783 (Oct 10, 2015)

Hi krprice,


If you want a decent sized, full featured machine, that doesn't weigh too much and is reasonably priced – that is a pretty tall order.  If you stay in this game very long, you’ll end up with a number of machines.


The 10x22 King machine?  It is a small machine – the work envelop can get eaten up pretty fast.  You identified a number of short comings for the machine you are considering – all machines have something that makes them not quite perfect (some less perfect than others).  All that said, it is very useful to have more than one machine, where each one has features that address short comings of the other.  The little King will still be useful when you have the larger machine (or sell it on).  The other examples you spoke of are still small machines and will likely address some of your criteria.


I don’t know that having to swap change gears is a big deal, but the small spindle hole is a bit tough.


I don’t really buy into the “bigger is better” idea, but I can say that I usually needed a bigger machine than I thought I would.  Often you can work around the issue, but if you have a decent sized work envelop – life is easier.


I encourage you to bide your time, looking for a machine which addressed more of your criteria – but don’t wait for perfect.  I’m in Alberta, and I have purchased a number of good used machines: a lathe, a saw, 3 decent drill presses, 2 good sized pedestal style grinders, 3 milling machines (that is if you count the one I wrecked, also got a 4th mill from out of province).  I should point out that for nearly everyone of those machines, when folks see my set up they are wondering how I got such awesome machines, yet everyone of those machines had lots of people pass them by because they were far from perfect (really dirty, generally rusty and usually broken).  I have been able to track down a number of machines for friends of mine (3 individuals, 5 machines). The machines are out there.


Get your ducks in row (cash in hand, transportation lined up, where you are going to put it, and the electrical power requirements dealt with), so when an opportunity shows up you can move quickly.  “Opportunities” are not going to come to you all shiny and wrapped in a bow (unless you buy new – however, I don’t think of that as an “opportunity”).  It takes time & experience to recognize “rough diamonds” – I have found it to be a lot of fun.  I encourage you to stick with it.  Develop your networks.  Keep asking questions (lots of good info and support on this site).


Regards, David


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## Kroll (Oct 10, 2015)

Myself being budget minded,I would work on having cash in hand and watch for a lathe in the used market but of better quality than new/cheap.Buying cheap would kinda create disappointment and maybe discouragement.Luckly for me I found a Sears/Atlas lathe that I went through and love it.But now come across a Colchester and now going through it using the Sears to make some bushings.
Either way its fun,so the hunt continues.Have fun looking


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## bob308 (Oct 10, 2015)

my thought is buy once cry once. in other words why buy a toy when you intend to do gunsmithing? a 9" southbend with the 54" bed will do nice for gunsmithing. I know a real pro. that made a good living with the long bed atlas.


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## kwoodhands (Oct 10, 2015)

krprice84 said:


> Ok, so I'm pretty new to machining in general, but I want a lathe. Currently in Alberta there isn't much used.
> 
> I have the option to buy a King 10x22 lathe that's almost brand new, for a good price. 1" spindle kind of sucks, change gears for threading kind of sucks but not that bad I guess.
> 
> ...




Get the larger lathe and hire a rigging company to get it in the basement.I have a Grizzly 10x22 myself and like it.The lack of  a real QC gear box is a pain but not a deal breaker. I rarely turn long work over 1" diameter so the 1" bore doesn't bother me. If I had to do over again I would have bought a lathe with a quick change gearbox.Also the 10x22 has a reverse but left hand threads can only be done by modifying the lathe with a tumbler gear.The lathe spindle will reverse,but the lead screw travel will feed towards the TS.
mike


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## krprice84 (Oct 11, 2015)

So I've decided against the king. 

As for a rigging company, I don't understand how anyone could get a real big lathe into a basement m.
I mean, I can disassemble it, sure, but at some point it's still going to be too heavy.

I'm thinking of saving for either the Cx701, or the grizzly or craftex 12 or 13 by 24 to 36

I would love a south bend, but the 9" swing models have a small bore, and the heavy ten and other one like it are a) too expensive, b) heavy, and c) I can't be sure they aren't worn out. 

I don't know how to verify the wear on ways, so it makes me nervous going for something that's five decades old.


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## Chipper5783 (Oct 11, 2015)

bob308 said:


> my thought is buy once cry once. in other words why buy a toy when you intend to do gunsmithing?



Bob and Kwood, know of what they speak.  I probably did not really think it through, but I ended up in the same place that they are recommending.

I spend more money on my first machine - a 15x60 lathe, than on the next 6 machines all combined (walked into a machinery dealer and paid the likely inflated asking price - with no haggling on my part.  In retrospect they were probably shocked.).  It required going down 5 steps into the basement.  I learned a great deal with that machine and 30+ years later, it is still a solid contributive part of my set up.  That first lathe is not a much sought after, top name brand machine - just a good performer.


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## stupoty (Oct 12, 2015)

krprice84 said:


> So I've decided against the king.
> 
> As for a rigging company, I don't understand how anyone could get a real big lathe into a basement m.
> I mean, I can disassemble it, sure, but at some point it's still going to be too heavy.
> ...



I accidentally made the repeat mistake of very hevy tools into a basement, opps,  you need lifting gear and people it turns out.  It's true about disasembly, it only gets so small when it starts out so big.

Stuart


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## krprice84 (Oct 12, 2015)

I just don't understand how you can rug up lifting equipment.... I mean, there's only so much room, and there's no where to attach or anchor to?

I might end up saving up for the cx701 or the ct089, or maybe think about bringing up the grizzly g4003

But that's a lot of money if I won't be selling services for gunsmith work.....which I won't be because you need another license for that


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## Tozguy (Oct 12, 2015)

Definitely agree with getting enough lathe for your ultimate goal right from the start. G4003G lathe is good for hobby gunsmithing.
Movers can tell you if they can get it into your basement. If not then plan a different location.
Tooling is expensive so any plans to upgrade later will likely mean different tooling which leaves you with obsolete stuff to sell. 
If you are new to lathes get a new lathe.


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## Chipper5783 (Oct 13, 2015)

krprice84 said:


> I don't know how to verify the wear on ways, so it makes me nervous going for something that's five decades old.



I think that for getting started on learning about machining, Tozguy is right (buy new).

If/When you are looking at used machines - don't fuss about when it was made (I have 3 machines that are 5 decades+ old).  I've looked at 10 year old machines and quickly walked away.
There are good reasons why an older machine may be better suited for what you want to do, than a much newer machine.

Look at what features the machine has (the original build, the attachments) and are you good with them - for example, perhaps you want rolling element bearings in the spindle, or a hardened bed - the list could go on and on.  For someone else, that may be no big deal - heck it is your hobby, make up your own guidelines.  Machinists were making incredible products 10+ decades ago - all that has really changed is that the machines are a lot cheaper (relatively speaking) and with the right operator, able to remove metal faster.


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## krprice84 (Oct 13, 2015)

Tozguy said:


> Definitely agree with getting enough lathe for your ultimate goal right from the start. G4003G lathe is good for hobby gunsmithing.
> Movers can tell you if they can get it into your basement. If not then plan a different location.
> Tooling is expensive so any plans to upgrade later will likely mean different tooling which leaves you with obsolete stuff to sell.
> If you are new to lathes get a new



There is no other location 

The ONLY place for a lathe where I am living is in the basement. I don't even have a garage, so disassembly would be on a non rainy day out front, and all parts brought down that day.

But yea, I'm leaning towards new. The 4003 may be a bit expensive for me still, especially with the exchange rate. Might have to settle for the ct089 or cx701


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## BarnyardEngineering (Oct 14, 2015)

krprice84 said:


> I just don't understand how you can rug up lifting equipment.... I mean, there's only so much room, and there's no where to attach or anchor to?



That's why they're the professionals. They know how to do all that.

There may not be any lifting equipment involved in the actual move to the basement. Think Egyptian pyramid building. Ramps, rollers, ropes, and pulleys.


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## krprice84 (Oct 14, 2015)

I don't know how the pyramids were built 

But fair enough, I guess that's why they get paid to do it.

Would you be looking up moving companies, or rigging companies? In alberta, I figure rigging companies would be doing oilfield stuff, not moving machinery, but then I don't really know for sure. I will look around and see what I can find out.


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## joshua43214 (Oct 21, 2015)

The problem with gun smithing is that you need to either be able to get the barrel into the head stock, or get it between centers. I would make this my first priority, you must be able to get a barrel mounted in the lathe somehow.

The QC gear box is a big deal for me. If I have to change gears between rough and finish cuts, I will avoid doing one or the other.

As for moving it, you would be amazed what can be moved. Unless your basement stairs make a sharp turn, there should be no issue getting a heavy machine down there. Even then, the lathe can be stood on its end and taken down that way.
In general, "lifting equipment" like cranes are not used, just dollies, pry bars, and come-alongs. A foldable engine hoist is a good idea for getting the machine onto the base.
Do not cringe away from doing things like drilling through a wall to the other side to make a drag line anchor - just patch and paint when done, no harm will come to your house doing this. If your basement stairs have a tight turn, consider just removing them and lowering the machine with a winch. Around here, most basements are almost after thoughts, and the stairs are just nailed at the top and bottom. They can be removed and replaced pretty easily. Lastly, you can rent a buddy with a back hoe and dig a walk out. You can justify this by saying that it will help keep metal chips from migrating from the basement shop to the living area (it can be a real issue with home shops).
In my experience, wives tend to get fussy about stuff like this. Priorities are important. I found getting rid of the wife gave me some extra space to store my guns, and I can buy all the machines I can afford


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## tomh (Oct 21, 2015)

Here is a easy way to see if you can do it. 
The 4003g is 24" tall 28" wide 62' long.  get some cardbord and make a box 24t x30w x 60L and see how much trouble is to get through the door and down the stairs that will give you the information you need  to see how much trouble it is size wise you might  surprised. many people have done this so look on youtube and search the net for putting a lathe in the basement and get some ideas.  
I know this is beating a dead horse but get the biggest lathe you can such a 12x36 even if you have to sell or save up for it.  Don't get in a hurry as that is when people get in trouble and frustrated, often making big mistakes money wise.


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## epanzella (Oct 21, 2015)

Barrel blanks come in 1.25 and 1.5 inch OD. Having a spindle bore smaller than 1.5 inches is areal handicap for gunsmithing. I change speeds and feeds constantly between shrinking diameters and roughing/finishing handoffs. Not having a QC gearbox would definitely be a deal breaker for me. I bought my Grizzly G4003G gunsmith lathe 2 years ago and it's perfect for my gunsmithing and fabricating chores. Cover your basement stairs with planks and slide the lathe down using a block and tackle, chain fall, or a vehicle. I put wheels on the crate it came in to get it near it's permanent location. Before it's mounted on the lathe stand it has a low CG and is not hard to move.


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## samthedog (Oct 22, 2015)

I would urge you to read the guide I wrote for selecting a lathe in the stickies section.

In my opinion, a QC gearbox is a must. You will get tired of changing gears real quick. If you plan to use carbide tooling and HSS, then you will want a lathe that can reach about 2000 rpm and with sufficient grunt.

I was in a similar situation to you however I already had the lathe, just nowhere to put it after the sale of our house. I went with a shipping container as a workshop since it will allow me to move the entire workshop on a truck when we move on. There are plenty of insulated containers about that you could convert quite easily.

Paul.


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