# Misting oil to protect machine surfaces in a damp environment?



## Rhino169 (Dec 8, 2019)

This is my first post and I did a search but didn’t see this question, but I’m sure it has been asked and answered in the past.

I have a small hobby machine shop growing in my non-heated 1890’s carriage house with a brick floor that has excess humidity and condensation at various times during the year.  

I’d like to know if there is an oil that can be sprayed on exposed metal surfaces to protect from rust?
Also is there a simple method to remove humidity from a space without adding a full hvac system?

I did just acquire a 6” Atlas TH42 Lathe that was previously in a heated garage and it still has a light rust sheen on the chuck and some other parts. Also, could someone point me to the recommended oil to use for lubrication of this style lathe?

Thanks, for any help!
Jeff


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## benmychree (Dec 8, 2019)

I just go around with a rag saturated with oil and wipe everything down (frequently) in wet weather.  Lathe chucks seem to get the worst of it, I drape an oily rag over them.  WD 40 is about worthless for the purpose.


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## ThinWoodsman (Dec 8, 2019)

I built my shop in an unheated barn. The shop itself is an enclosed and insulated space, about 12x24 ft.

To address humidity, I bought one of those wheeled dehumidifiers with a tank and a hose hookup. It's plugged into a timer which runs for an hour twice a day at peak humidity times (2-3pm, 3-4am around here). Costs very little by way of electricity.

Winter turns every hunk of metal into a condenser. I put a cheap oil-filled electric radiant heater from the hardware store, keep it on the lowest setting. Keeps the shop at 40F, and again doesn't eat up much power. I no longer walk in to machines dripping with water. Some people put electric coffee cup warmers under or in their machines, but I haven't found those to be terribly effective.

On top of those systems, I filled a sureshot mister with Bob Korves' version of Ed's Red (basically ATF, odorless mineral spirits, and lanolin), and use that periodically (maybe once a month). Search around for forums thread on lanolin and you'll find a lot of discussion on different rust prevention approaches.


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## ACHiPo (Dec 8, 2019)

Rhino169 said:


> This is my first post and I did a search but didn’t see this question, but I’m sure it has been asked and answered in the past.


Welcome Jeff!  There are some posts here on using lanolin mixed with mineral spirits et al and ATF as a pretty effective rust preventative.  I haven't tried it myself as I don't seem to have much condensation problem, or at least not enough to overcome Johnson's paste wax and way oil.

Fine Woodworking published a study they did some years ago.  As I recall they found Johnson's paste wax and CRC as pretty good in their tests.  They did not test the homebrew lanolin mixture.









						The Best Rust Preventers - FineWoodworking
					

We put 20 commonly available rust preventers to the test to see which ones work best at protecting your expensive woodworking tools from rust. Are waxes and natural oils better? What about petroleum-based products? We tried the rust preventers on a cast-iron tablesaw top and some samples of A2...




					www.finewoodworking.com
				




Evan


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## Packard V8 (Dec 8, 2019)

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jack vines


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## Bob Korves (Dec 8, 2019)

ThinWoodsman said:


> On top of those systems, I filled a sureshot mister with Bob Korves' version of Ed's Red (basically ATF, odorless mineral spirits, and lanolin), and use that periodically (maybe once a month). Search around for forums thread on lanolin and you'll find a lot of discussion on different rust prevention approaches.


How is the lanolin/ATF/mineral spirits recipe working for you?  It sure sounds like your shop is a much moister place than mine in California.  If it does not do well enough, I would go with more lanolin and less mineral spirits.  Here, I put it that basic recipe on and forget about it long term, with zero rust issues so far...


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## ThinWoodsman (Dec 8, 2019)

Works great! If stored, the mineral spirits needs to be added before use - I keep mine in an old whiskey bottle, and after half a year it started to leave a residue like lanonlin typically does.

Not sure I would rely on it without the humidity control, though. Then again, without the dehumidifier the shop gets mold. Quite a bit different from that half-desert climate you guys got in the central valley,


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## cbellanca (Dec 8, 2019)

My shop ( woodworking and metal, mill and lathe) is in the basement under my garage.  I have a HVAC system that is only used when I am in the shop. However, I use Johnsons paste wax on all my exposed steel and cast iron surfaces. I do remove any wood dust when finished using the equipment. I have no problems with rust.


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## tjb (Dec 8, 2019)

I've been using Fluid Film spray for a good while now.  Learned about it here on another thread.

I spray it pretty liberally on tools that aren't used very often, and less heavily on tools used more regularly.  It is a lanolin product and works very well.  It costs about ten bucks a can at Home Depot, so it's not nearly as inexpensive as many of the other options, but it tops the list for convenience.  If I had a lot more tooling and equipment, I'd probably use something more along the lines of a homemade product like Bob's, but for my purposes it's pretty simple to spray it and forget about it.  We get pretty humid down here in Georgia, too.

Regards,
Terry


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## C-Bag (Dec 8, 2019)

I've tried just about everything because I have no heater in my garage. Being so close to the ocean everything gets eaten up very quickly in total contrast where is used to live 2hrs further east. I had to keep my 40's stove and my zero turn mover in a tarp style shed and luckily I had a neighbor who turned me on to the knowledge and material. Plastic tarps are death, but breathable material like certain carpet padding that looks like old wool and sunbrella fabric they use for outside lawn furniture protect but also breathe unlike plastic tarps. So all my machines get Fluid Film until the can runs out then I'll switch to Ed's Red and custom covers. Since doing that no rust at all.


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## Rhino169 (Dec 8, 2019)

Thanks for all the advice! Now what type of oil should I use inside the lathe? Also is there an easy way to see how much is in the areas it is needed? Again, I just acquired this lathe and do not know the previous upkeep regimine.


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## ACHiPo (Dec 8, 2019)

Mobile Vactra 2 for the ways and Velocite for the spindle.  There are mixed opinions about the best gear lube--oil, graphite grease, moly grease, etc.

The site below sells small quantities of lubricants, as commercial lubes typically come in 5 gal pails.  Of course the cheapest would be to find a friendly machine shop that would likely give you a several year supply.









						1 PT EA MOBIL WAY OIL VACTRA 2/SPINDLE VELOCITE 6 for BRIDGEPORT, HAAS, HARDINGE  | eBay
					

Velocite Spindle Oil #6. Used in Bridgeport, Haas Mills and Hardinge Lathe s. NEED PARTS FOR YOUR BRIDGEPORT?. You get both way oil and spindle oil for one low price! Way Oil #2 and. Just let us send you updated invoice.



					www.ebay.com


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## NCjeeper (Dec 8, 2019)

ThinWoodsman said:


> To address humidity, I bought one of those wheeled dehumidifiers with a tank and a hose hookup.


 I did the same thing. It stays on 24/7 but only cycles when it reaches over the set humidity setting which I have at 55%. Works very well. Don't have rust problems anymore.


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## tq60 (Dec 9, 2019)

About 40 years ago when we worked in an automotive machine shop we mixed whatever motor oil that was handy with solvent at about 10 parts solvent to 1 part oil.

Place in spray bottle or air powers spray can.

Sprayed this on crank rod and main after polishing as well as anything that had a surface rust in nin- machined areas.

The solvent evaporates leaving behind a very thin oil film.

Adjust ratio as needed.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Tozguy (Dec 9, 2019)

Like NCjeeper my shop has a dehumidifier on wheels that cycles itself on and off as needed. It keeps humidity in the shop under 55% when outside it can go over 90%. We have cold dry winters and hot humid summers so the shop is well insulated with a vapor barrier.
The machines have a coating of oil just from being used. 
Considering everything that is in the shop (measuring tools, drills, blades, etc.) that needs protection from rust, controlling the level of humidity in the shop is a necessity. Plus you get a better comfort level for yourself.


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## ThinWoodsman (Dec 9, 2019)

NCjeeper said:


> I did the same thing. It stays on 24/7 but only cycles when it reaches over the set humidity setting which I have at 55%. Works very well. Don't have rust problems anymore.



I did that at first, and found it kicked on once an hour, usually only for a few minutes to knock the humidity back a couple of degrees. Seemed like a big waste of power, so I experimented with various timer settings (every four hours, every six, etc) and found that twice a day keeps the humidity down while not making an appreciable difference to the power bill.

Having said that, I spent a couple years in VA, and the humidity there is insane. I can see why you'd run it 24/7.

As for the oil, what ACHiPo said is basically what manufacturers of these machines recommend: Velocite for the machine and Vactra for the ways. I bought a gallon of each, which is somewhat pricey (about 40-50 bucks a gallon), but now I use them on all the other machines as well. As mentioned, there are people online who will sell you an 8 or 12oz bottle for something like ten bucks.


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## Mjohnson (Dec 9, 2019)

Another vote for Johnson's paste wax.  It has worked great for me.  All the machines and tooling I have put it stay bright, while I have see rust form on material in my scrap bucket.


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## RobertB (Dec 10, 2019)

Rhino169 said:


> I have a small hobby machine shop growing in my non-heated 1890’s carriage house with a brick floor that has excess humidity and condensation at various times during the year .....
> 
> Also is there a simple method to remove humidity from a space without adding a full hvac system?


In this situation not much is going to help with the humidity. Dehumidifiers work well if the space is reasonably sealed. With a brick floor with no vapor barrier the moisture is going to be coming in as fast as the dehumidifier is taking it out.


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## Tozguy (Dec 10, 2019)

Robert has made a good point. Depending on your medium and long term plans for that work space, it might be worth laying some flooring panels (see link for example) over the brick now, before the shop 'grows' too much and fills with machines.
Sorry for getting away from the original question but I would like to think that you have a fighting chance to control rust with oil/wax coatings by combining it with other measures.









						DRICORE R+ Insulated Subfloor Panel 1 in. x 2 ft. x 2 ft. Specialty Panel FG10003 - The Home Depot
					

DRICORE Subfloor R+ is the first and most important step towards creating a new living space as warm and comfortable as any other space in your home. DRICORE is the one-step engineered subfloor solution



					www.homedepot.com


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## ThinWoodsman (Dec 10, 2019)

I have an uninsulated concrete floor in the shop in my barn - the only insulation is in the walls and ceiling. Sure, it's not optimal - water wicks up from the ground, the concrete isn't even sealed. The dehumidier works just fine, though.


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## mcostello (Dec 10, 2019)

There is a commercially made "misting Oil" used for storage of gasoline engines.  Just spray some down the spark plug hole and crank a few times,
to spread it around.


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## Winegrower (Dec 10, 2019)

I for one have been disappointed in Boeshield T-9.   It's expensive and didn't do much that I could tell.    I wax the woodworking equipment, seems marginal at best.  The castings look so beautiful when they arrive and lose that pretty quickly, in my experience.


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## Bob Korves (Dec 10, 2019)

ThinWoodsman said:


> Works great! If stored, the mineral spirits needs to be added before use - I keep mine in an old whiskey bottle, and after half a year it started to leave a residue like lanonlin typically does.
> 
> Not sure I would rely on it without the humidity control, though. Then again, without the dehumidifier the shop gets mold. Quite a bit different from that half-desert climate you guys got in the central valley,


Yes, you have to keep it in a well sealed container or the solvent will evaporate out, leaving a thick mass of oil and lanolin.  I have not had that problem because I use air tight containers to store it in.


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## Tim9 (Dec 11, 2019)

For long time storage I’m a big fan of thinned lanolin. For my workshop....it’s a constant battle because New Orleans has absolutely miserable humidity. It’s like living in the tropics.
  I read in a post a while back where someone recommended leaving a fan running. So that’s what I have been doing the last year and it works. On days and nights where we get that condensing humidity forecast ( foggy nights) I leave a small oscillating wall fan running on low speed. It absolutely eliminates the condensation from forming on all the metal surfaces in my shop. Lathe, concrete floor, mill and drill press all dry.
   The other day...I forgot to turn it on one night and walked in the shop....everything was sweating and wet. The concrete floor was wet. This was the first time that happened in the year I was leaving the fan on. It works.


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## Tim9 (Dec 11, 2019)

On a side note...for many of my more precision items which I want to protect, I do try to wipe them down with an oily rag, and then I keep those in a decently sealed cabinet. It’s not air tight. It’s an old China case salvaged after Katrina from gutted house which flooded.
   I keep a couple of cans of eBay off brand damp rid stuff. Just blue silica gel desiccant that get recharged color blue when dry and turns pink when saturated. Usually lasts a couple of months and stuff in this cabinet only gets used occasionally. More common tools go in other cabinets or tool boxes. All of these steps also help. It’s a process in my opinion keeps rust at bay. No single solution other than HVAC. And for me, that’s just not in the cards yet.


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## The Model A Guy (Dec 12, 2019)

On the de humidifier. I bought one that rolls around last year and it ran thru the winter months and into early spring.  I’m a big fan.....I empty a gallon every other day or so. It doesnt take up much room and has made a notable difference in my non insulated all metal shop. 
& I Still wipe down all my machinery regularly with Gibbs.


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## middle.road (Dec 12, 2019)

We really should do up a sticky on this subject someday.


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## Downunder Bob (Dec 13, 2019)

ThinWoodsman said:


> I built my shop in an unheated barn. The shop itself is an enclosed and insulated space, about 12x24 ft.
> 
> To address humidity, I bought one of those wheeled dehumidifiers with a tank and a hose hookup. It's plugged into a timer which runs for an hour twice a day at peak humidity times (2-3pm, 3-4am around here). Costs very little by way of electricity.
> 
> ...




You can buy a ready made rust preventer based on lanolin, called Lanox MX4 I have found it to be very good for protecting clean metal. It's great in a marine environment. I always give my machines  a light spray when leaving the shop.


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## ThinWoodsman (Dec 13, 2019)

Downunder Bob said:


> You can buy a ready made rust preventer based on lanolin, called Lanox MX4 I have found it to be very good for protecting clean metal. It's great in a marine environment.


There are a few, Fluid Film being the most readily available here (the local hardware store even carries it - the *real* hardware store I mean, not the big-box store), LPS-3 being a pricey but effective variant. The problem with these, as mentioned in a different thread, is that they leave a thick, tacky coating. Adding mineral spirits seems to thin the lanolin enough to leave more of a thin, dried-wax coating.


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## Downunder Bob (Dec 15, 2019)

ThinWoodsman said:


> There are a few, Fluid Film being the most readily available here (the local hardware store even carries it - the *real* hardware store I mean, not the big-box store), LPS-3 being a pricey but effective variant. The problem with these, as mentioned in a different thread, is that they leave a thick, tacky coating. Adding mineral spirits seems to thin the lanolin enough to leave more of a thin, dried-wax coating.



The Lanox MX4 that I mentioned does not leave a thick tacky residue but rather a thin oily film. I do not dilute it just use as is. Even after not having used my lathe for a month or more the ways are still wet and shiny, there is no problem in using it as is, just wind the carriage along and re-oil as I go.

I imagine that if a lot of dust was to settle on the machine during that idle time it would need cleaning off. But my shop doesn't get much dust inside , so I've never had to worry about it. If it was dirty I'd just spray it with Inox MX3 and wipe it down the Inox is also my preferred cutting fluid specially good on Al, and S/S.


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## Bob Korves (Dec 15, 2019)

I see no reason to buy lanolin based rust preventatives premixed in spray cans or in liquid form at the high prices they get for them.  Anhydrous lanolin is cheap on eBay.  Mix it with some good oil (I use ATF) and with mineral spirits or some other solvent to the consistency you are looking for, and get to work.  The lanolin needs to be carefully melted before mixing and the other ingredients should be room temperature or higher.  You can easily make several different products for rough stuff that lives outside, and for fine metrology tools with the same three ingredients mixed in different ratios.  It is not magic, lanolin is the best rust inhibitor, oil helps to spread it out evenly, and mineral spirits thins it for the thickness you want to apply.  The recipe I posted is for machinist tools, tooling, and machine tables in the shop.  YMMV.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 15, 2019)

Bob do you have an approximate ratio for the lanolin, oil, mineral spirits blend?

Also what is the reason for ATF vs say motor, gear or way oil?

Up to now I've just been using a way oil soaked paper towel to put a light coat of oil on exposed metal which has been effective, but the basement does get damp in wet years as this one seems to be looking like it might be.


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## Bob Korves (Dec 16, 2019)

Aaron_W said:


> Bob do you have an approximate ratio for the lanolin, oil, mineral spirits blend?
> 
> Also what is the reason for ATF vs say motor, gear or way oil?
> 
> Up to now I've just been using a way oil soaked paper towel to put a light coat of oil on exposed metal which has been effective, but the basement does get damp in wet years as this one seems to be looking like it might be.


1 part anhydrous lanolin, carefully melted until completely clear, using no flame.
Add 1 part ATF, stir until thoroughly mixed in.
Add 5 parts mineral spirits, stir or shake until dissolved and blended together completely.  This leaves a light bodied transparent coating on metal after the mineral spirits evaporate.

That recipe is for use on my machinist tooling.  It leaves surfaces that you cannot tell it has been applied by sight or feel, but I have never seen the slightest amount of rust after applying it to the ENTIRE SURFACE with a tooth brush, Q-tip, or similar to a wet coat and then letting it dry.  My tools are kept in my Sacramento California unheated garage shop, mostly in ordinary tool boxes.  If the environment is tougher than what I have, I would recommend using less mineral spirits to make the coating thicker after the solvent dries.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 16, 2019)

Thanks Bob, I've got some lanolin coming from ebay, $11 for 8oz so I'll pick up a quart of ATF and a gallon of mineral spirits and I should be rust free for life. 

I think my climate is pretty similar to yours, but the basement does get some water on the floor in a heavy rain. It never reaches the area where the machines are, but does result in some dampness for a few days until everything dries out. I keep a couple of fans going 24/7 and that air movement does seem to dry the air pretty quickly. I've not had issues with mold or rust on the stuff that has been stored down there.


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## Bob Korves (Dec 17, 2019)

Aaron_W said:


> Also what is the reason for ATF vs say motor, gear or way oil?


ATF is highly resistant to oxidation, which keeps it oily longer in contact with air, and is inexpensive.  Buy the cheap stuff for anti rust formulations.


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## Rhino169 (Dec 18, 2019)

Bob Korves said:


> ATF is highly resistant to oxidation, which keeps it oily longer in contact with air, and is inexpensive.  Buy the cheap stuff for anti rust formulations.



Thanks for the recipe Bob. I have also ordered some Lanolin on eBay and have mineral spirits and ATF ready to mix. I also just received a can of the Fluid Film I will try as well to see if it can do the job as well.

I may use the vertical metal pole on my old Delta drill press and coat half with the Fluid Film and half with your recipe and look for any differences.

This gets me to a secondary question...

For lightly rust coated areas that area not lathe ways, such as the chuck, what is a preferred method to remove this rust prior to misting oil application. Then for the ways, what is a suggested method to remove light rust?


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## Bob Korves (Dec 18, 2019)

Rhino169 said:


> Thanks for the recipe Bob. I have also ordered some Lanolin on eBay and have mineral spirits and ATF ready to mix. I also just received a can of the Fluid Film I will try as well to see if it can do the job as well.
> 
> I may use the vertical metal pole on my old Delta drill press and coat half with the Fluid Film and half with your recipe and look for any differences.
> 
> ...


Evapo-rust is what I use for almost all my rust issues.  It is not cheap, but it is reusable over and over many times, especially if you keep oil and grease out of it and remove most of any thick rust with another method.  It is safe to use, and can be poured down the drain after it is used up.  The items should be fully immersed or you can get unsightly lines in the metal at the air to Evapo-rust interface.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 18, 2019)

Bob Korves said:


> ATF is highly resistant to oxidation, which keeps it oily longer in contact with air, and is inexpensive.  Buy the cheap stuff for anti rust formulations.



Ok, that makes sense ATF sits in a transmission upwards of a couple years vs 3-6 months for motor oil, or frequent reapplication in the case of way oil.



Rhino169 said:


> This gets me to a secondary question...
> 
> For lightly rust coated areas that area not lathe ways, such as the chuck, what is a preferred method to remove this rust prior to misting oil application. Then for the ways, what is a suggested method to remove light rust?



Evaporust seems to be the go to for many if you want to get rid of rust entirely. 

If just halting it works for you, I've been having good luck with Ospho. It turns rust (iron oxide) into iron phosphate which stops the rust process. The plus side is you can just brush it on vs immersion, and it won't discolor the base metal. Cosmetically Ospho turns the rust into black spots which may or may not matter to you. It can also be used as a metal primer on rusty metal.  

Looking at what I paid for a gallon of Evaporust vs a quart of Ospho, it doesn't have much if any cost advantage over Evaporust.


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## ThinWoodsman (Dec 19, 2019)

Bob Korves said:


> fter applying it to the ENTIRE SURFACE with a tooth brush, Q-tip, or similar to a wet coat and then letting it dry.



I use a SureShot mister. For anything more than spot-spraying, you better leave the shop for a bit until the pink fog settles.


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