# Guidance on buying a G&E shaper



## Cooped_Up (Aug 19, 2020)

alright so I stumbled upon this shaper today, and yes its in a field and its not in great cosmetic shape but I think it could clean up. He asked me to make an offer, it is 15 minutes from my house. If I bought it I would take it apart on sight and do 2 trips. what do you guys think its worth, I dont think I would pay more than $500 and I was personally thinking offering 300. if you guys think I should offer less just let me know.


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 19, 2020)

also tell me to walk away if its not worth anything


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## Ulma Doctor (Aug 19, 2020)

personally, i would hitch up and go get it, but i am NOT a sane person 

unfortunately for most folks, a shaper is too antiquated of a technology to be sexy enough to put in their shops.
i do not subscribe to those thoughts personally.
i find the technology enchanting, if not mesmerizing and hypnotic.

regardless, i would be inclined to offer $300 as you had initially thought and see what they say.
i would expect a retort of $350, if you were to be haggling with an initiated seller.

the machine was made to excellent standards.
the machine is robust and capable of moving large quantities of material, at will. 

in other words, i would be proud to have a beast like her in my shop.
the machine appears to be in good shape, less the paint.
you should clean/inspect/lube very well before putting any power to her.
but on the surface, you have a very viable candidate in my opinion.

i wish you good luck, whichever direction you go.


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## Ulma Doctor (Aug 19, 2020)

P.s.  ......
if you get it,  can i fly back to NY and hear it run??????


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## projectnut (Aug 19, 2020)

It looks like the vise, clapper box and table (parts that are commonly missing on a shaper of that size) are there.  The vise alone is probably worth $200.00 or more.  I would try to move it through one complete cycle by hand just to see if all the internal parts that move the ram are still there and functional.  If it does move through a cycle I would offer the $300.00 you were thinking about.  I was offered a G&E 16" shaper a couple years ago for $250.00  It was complete and in a shop running.  I passed on it primarily due to it's size and weight.  If I recall correctly the 16" weighed in the neighborhood of 4,000 lbs.

Moving it from a field could be a chore.


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 19, 2020)

Ulma Doctor said:


> P.s.  ......
> if you get it,  can i fly back to NY and hear it run??????


HAHAHAHA sure thing


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## savarin (Aug 19, 2020)

whats the scrap value?
If its less than the 300 then offer that then if he haggles just say worth a try what about 300 etc.


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## benmychree (Aug 19, 2020)

That machine likely dates to the 1920s, it could likely made to run well, with a whole lot of cleanup, I'd offer no more than $200.


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## FOMOGO (Aug 19, 2020)

Yes! you must buy it, so I can live vicariously through your ownership. I have yet to see a large one like that anywhere within 300 miles of me, or I would have one. Perhaps one day the machinery Gods will see fit to send one my way. Mike


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 19, 2020)

FOMOGO said:


> Yes! you must buy it, so I can live vicariously through your ownership. I have yet to see a large one like that anywhere within 300 miles of me, or I would have one. Perhaps one day the machinery Gods will see fit to send one my way. Mike


I was lucky enough to happen upon this one, I was looking at some 1800's equipment like a bandsaw just kinda for fun and then he said he had the shaper and I was so excited, I had never seen one in person before


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## NCjeeper (Aug 19, 2020)

benmychree said:


> That machine likely dates to the 1920s, it could likely made to run well, with a whole lot of cleanup, I'd offer no more than $200.


Yeah that is an older model.


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## NCjeeper (Aug 19, 2020)

Interesting that it looks like this was built during the transition from belt driven to electric motor drive. Is that a cone pulley underneath the large guard being driven with a flat belt from the motor?


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 19, 2020)

NCjeeper said:


> Interesting that it looks like this was built during the transition from belt driven to electric motor drive. Is that a cone pulley underneath the large guard being driven with a flat belt from the motor?


I think it was made just in that time period, It has a flatbelt but no cone


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 20, 2020)

well I got a price, and its $1000 for a lot of things. He wants to sell an old what I think is a crescent 36" bandsaw from the late 1800's. He has several post drills and other antique things like a old wood lathe


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 20, 2020)

I think he would sell just the shaper for $500 so I feel like I could Flip the band saw. and he has the rest of the things for the bandsaw like the table and upper wheel


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## Lo-Fi (Aug 20, 2020)

Do it! If you want inspiration for that old band saw, look up Fireball Tool on YouTube. He did an amazing resto-mod job on something similar.


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## Liljoebrshooter (Aug 20, 2020)

And a tractor with forks in the back to load it up.
Looks like a great project to me. 
Joe


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 20, 2020)

Lo-Fi said:


> Do it! If you want inspiration for that old band saw, look up Fireball Tool on YouTube. He did an amazing resto-mod job on something similar.


well you see, that is why I found the shaper, I was looking at the bandsaw because of fireball tool. I used to live very close to him.


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 20, 2020)

Liljoebrshooter said:


> And a tractor with forks in the back to load it up.
> Looks like a great project to me.
> Joe


I think so too, the only issue how do I convince my dad to let me put it in his shop hahaha, I'm 18 and don't have my own place and my dad only sees these machines as large bits of metal that move


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## cjtoombs (Aug 20, 2020)

I bought one nearly just like that, probably a bit newer as the drive is different but most of the rest of it the same.  I got mine for $385 and probably cost me $200 in fuel to go get it, and it hadn't been setting outside like that one.  It looks like it's all there and those were well built, heavy shapers.  That being said, I spend a quite a lot of time cleaning it up, had to make some parts for it.  I think I have around $1200 in it and got 8 stitches out of it.  Also, it weighs somewhere around 2 tons, so moving it isn't easy.  If you can get the whole lot for $1000, you can probably come out of it ok, but just realize that selling that stuff takes time and effort as well, so add another project to the list.


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 20, 2020)

cjtoombs said:


> I bought one nearly just like that, probably a bit newer as the drive is different but most of the rest of it the same.  I got mine for $385 and probably cost me $200 in fuel to go get it, and it hadn't been setting outside like that one.  It looks like it's all there and those were well built, heavy shapers.  That being said, I spend a quite a lot of time cleaning it up, had to make some parts for it.  I think I have around $1200 in it and got 8 stitches out of it.  Also, it weighs somewhere around 2 tons, so moving it isn't easy.  If you can get the whole lot for $1000, you can probably come out of it ok, but just realize that selling that stuff takes time and effort as well, so add another project to the list.


Any tips on convincing my father? I just dragged him on a 6 hour there 7 hour back road trip for a lathe tht he was unsure about me getting so that's one of the factors of him being against it cause he asks when will it end


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 20, 2020)

Well, things are looking up for the shaper and friends. I figured I would make a sort of timeline and guarantees to my dad. I wrote a "contract" and gave it to my dad and made it a little funny and detailed, he thought it was funny but at the same time, he knows that ill follow it. I might also be bribing him by buying him a kayak. ill keep you updated if he signs it and when I buy it.


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## vocatexas (Aug 20, 2020)

It's hard to tell in the pics, but the ways don't seem to have any pitting. Buy LOTS of Liquid Wrench or PB Blaster to get things moving again. I probably used two cases on one of my lathes when I first got it. It hadn't been outside, but had sat un-used for over thirty years and everything on it was stuck.

Good luck and have fun with it!

By the way, Keith Rucker is restoring a Crescent band saw right now. You might want to check his videos out.


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## NortonDommi (Aug 21, 2020)

I don't know anything about prices n USA but $1000 for a 'whole pile of stuff' seems reasonable.  That shaper has been under cover and just needs a good clean and new paint. Having the vice is a big plus.  36" bandsaw, I'm jealous.  You could always make your Dad a kayak,(selling point for bandsaw).
Shapers are funny, people love or loath them. I find them incredibly useful, a lot of the time quicker to set up than a mill and boy can they move metal fast.  A bit of practise you can make all sorts of cuts and shapes that would be near impossible on a manual mill.


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## cjtoombs (Aug 21, 2020)

Cooped_Up said:


> Any tips on convincing my father? I just dragged him on a 6 hour there 7 hour back road trip for a lathe tht he was unsure about me getting so that's one of the factors of him being against it cause he asks when will it end



Don't let your dad read this, but the "when will it end" question is probably never.  At one time I had 7 shapers.  I still have 5, and 3 planers.  Heck, 3 of them even run .


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 21, 2020)

cjtoombs said:


> Don't let your dad read this, but the "when will it end" question is probably never.  At one time I had 7 shapers.  I still have 5, and 3 planers.  Heck, 3 of them even run .


Well tht was my first answer when he asked me and he wasn't very exited about it hahahaha


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## FOMOGO (Aug 21, 2020)

Just tell him it will keep you out of the bars, both kinds.  MIke


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## Lo-Fi (Aug 21, 2020)

FOMOGO said:


> Just tell him it will keep you out of the bars, both kinds.  MIke




That's an _excellent_ point to make, joking aside. What it boils down to is: "while I'm in here messing with these ancient bits of iron, I'm learning. Doing something constructive". Any parent should be so lucky, especially in the light of the truly heartbreaking stories in the "my son died of a heroin overdose" thread.

More power to you for striving for it, @Cooped_Up . My parents - hell, even my neighbours - were very accommodating of me making a little noise, shifting machines, taking cars to bits and suchlike when I was your age. In their own words "I'd rather you were doing this than drink/drugs/trouble. Carry on!". I was always respectful and knew when too far would have been too far, and never got any hassle. 

Looking forward to this all unfolding - please keep us posted


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 21, 2020)

Lo-Fi said:


> That's an _excellent_ point to make, joking aside. What it boils down to is: "while I'm in here messing with these ancient bits of iron, I'm learning. Doing something constructive". Any parent should be so lucky, especially in the light of the truly heartbreaking stories in the "my son died of a heroin overdose" thread.
> 
> More power to you for striving for it, @Cooped_Up . My parents - hell, even my neighbours - were very accommodating of me making a little noise, shifting machines, taking cars to bits and suchlike when I was your age. In their own words "I'd rather you were doing this than drink/drugs/trouble. Carry on!". I was always respectful and knew when too far would have been too far, and never got any hassle.
> 
> Looking forward to this all unfolding - please keep us posted


I agree with that so much, I have made mistakes in the past and I'm sure they are much happier that I'm doing this kind of thing than anything else. I will make sure that I post updates on if I get it or not... I'm excited to say the least


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 22, 2020)

well, everyone... I brought it home today!!! It's still in the trailer and I'm working on trying to figure out how to get it out. now I have watched the back yard machinists video on his 24" version of the same shaper and I see that he says that his doesn't have a clutch. I would like to know if mine does, I have a broken lever on the end of the driveshaft and it looks to be where the typical clutch lever would sit. in this image you see that handwheel looking thing on the right most side of the shaper is the broken lever


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 22, 2020)

also,there is a tag that says high duty, does that mean its a heavy-duty model? like it can take meatier bites...


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## NCjeeper (Aug 22, 2020)

Cooped_Up said:


> also,there is a tag that says high duty, does that mean its a heavy-duty model? like it can take meatier bites...


That was their slogan up until the 30's I think. After that they started calling them heavy duty.


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 23, 2020)

NCjeeper said:


> That was their slogan up until the 30's I think. After that they started calling them heavy duty.


okay, well that's good to know, ill take it easy and I don't think I could possibly break the thing. all I know is I put it in a trailer rated for 3000 pounds and it pushed it. I have heard some similar length stroke shapers weigh mush less so I figured that meant its good at big chips


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## cjtoombs (Aug 23, 2020)

I'm pretty sure that broken handle is for the clutch, which is inside that housing by the grearbox.  Hi-Duty was kind of just a brand name, they did have two versions, a production version and a toolroom version, the main difference being that the toolroom version had finer feed capability than the production one.  That shaper is set up different than mine, the motor drives the clutch and pulley on the other side and the shaft comes in from the left side of the gearbox, instead of the right like this one.  That what makes me think this one is a bit older than mine.  Or maybe they had options on which side of the machine the drive came on, who knows.  Good luck, and if you tear it down completely, make sure you use a hoist to get the crank back in, don't try to do it by hand.  Mine's nickname is "Old Thumb Crusher".  Here's some pics of it.  














Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 24, 2020)

cjtoombs said:


> I'm pretty sure that broken handle is for the clutch, which is inside that housing by the grearbox.  Hi-Duty was kind of just a brand name, they did have two versions, a production version and a toolroom version, the main difference being that the toolroom version had finer feed capability than the production one.  That shaper is set up different than mine, the motor drives the clutch and pulley on the other side and the shaft comes in from the left side of the gearbox, instead of the right like this one.  That what makes me think this one is a bit older than mine.  Or maybe they had options on which side of the machine the drive came on, who knows.  Good luck, and if you tear it down completely, make sure you use a hoist to get the crank back in, don't try to do it by hand.  Mine's nickname is "Old Thumb Crusher".  Here's some pics of it.
> View attachment 334648
> 
> 
> ...


You have a very nice machine! I don't think I have enough patience to do a nice restoration on mine. I'm thinking get the old paint off and maybe if it needs it do a little paint work. And if I find any problems along the way I will address them


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## cjtoombs (Aug 26, 2020)

Cooped_Up said:


> You have a very nice machine! I don't think I have enough patience to do a nice restoration on mine. I'm thinking get the old paint off and maybe if it needs it do a little paint work. And if I find any problems along the way I will address them



Mine was from a school, so it had been abused.  It also sat outside for about 3 years before I restored it.  Luckily outside in the desert mostly means there is sand everywhere, the rust was easily removed.  On mine the bellcrank for the clutch was broken, one of the handles was broken, 3 of the 4 way wipers were ruined, the stroke adjustment rod was broken, the vise was worn out and abused and the bevel gears that raise and lower the table were stripped.  I tore it down completely, made or repaired parts for it (there is a thread on here of the bevel gear repair), cleaned and painted everything.  I think it took about 3 months mostly working on it on the weekends.  That time also includes building that rolling stand that it's on, so the machine restoration didn't take that long.


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 28, 2020)

Well I got it off the trailer finally, and I even got power run to it. After oiling the crap out of everything i got it going under its own power and it seems to be in running order, it is a little loud so I'll probably just cover the loud parts in some grease.


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## FOMOGO (Aug 28, 2020)

I know it's tough to go slow at your age, but take some time to get to really know the workings of the machine. Especially make sure that the main ways are getting oil. Congrats on your purchase, it can be a very useful peice of equipment. Cheers, Mike


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 28, 2020)

FOMOGO said:


> I know it's tough to go slow at your age, but take some time to get to really know the workings of the machine. Especially make sure that the main ways are getting oil. Congrats on your purchase, it can be a very useful peice of equipment. Cheers, Mike


Well they only get oil when I give them oil and like I said I oiled everything and then some. There are ports to oil the ram, 2 on each side. I oiled almost every shaft, gear, and bushing. I know how the machine functions but not all of the nitty gritty. I definitely am not going slow but I have had plenty of time learning about shapers and how they work


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## NCjeeper (Aug 31, 2020)

Have you found a serial number on it? If you do I can give you a year of manufacture.


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 31, 2020)

NCjeeper said:


> Have you found a serial number on it? If you do I can give you a year of manufacture.


Do you know where that would be? all I know is that it was made after 1918


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## NCjeeper (Aug 31, 2020)

On mine it is at the top of the right vertical way.


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 31, 2020)

NCjeeper said:


> On mine it is at the top of the right vertical way.
> View attachment 335421


that would be a convenient place but you see mine does not really have a vertical way more of a slot. ill go take a look when I get a chance


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## Cooped_Up (Aug 31, 2020)

just went out and the only thing I was able to find was this and thats it. I have the patent plate and thats the best idea I have of date


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## NCjeeper (Aug 31, 2020)

That could be it. If it is it was built towards the end of 1922. They started with #98 beginning of 1923.


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## vocatexas (Sep 1, 2020)

Please, don't just put grease on the 'loud parts'! Find out what the proper lubricant is and use it. Using grease can trap chips and cause scoring and wearing in the ways. There may be a few places where grease is the lubricant of choice, but most moving parts on shapers will use some grade of oil.


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## Janderso (Sep 1, 2020)

benmychree said:


> That machine likely dates to the 1920s, it could likely made to run well, with a whole lot of cleanup, I'd offer no more than $200.


John is just cheap. That shaper will clean up with a lot of elbow grease. I say if you can get it for less than $500, you can’t lose.


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## Cooped_Up (Sep 2, 2020)

vocatexas said:


> Please, don't just put grease on the 'loud parts'! Find out what the proper lubricant is and use it. Using grease can trap chips and cause scoring and wearing in the ways. There may be a few places where grease is the lubricant of choice, but most moving parts on shapers will use some grade of oil.


I wouldn't grease the ways, I already have gone through the pain of that cleaning my Bridgeport and it came out of an actual machine shop.


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## dirty tools (Sep 2, 2020)

The like the camel drill press
lucky I am not close by
my wife just doesn’t get it


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## cjtoombs (Sep 2, 2020)

Mine had had the ram ways run dry and there was some scoring (it was in a school, after all).  I stoned that all down and it doesn't seem to have any effect.  I did add two drip oilers to each side after the pictures and video above were made, to head off any problems with that in the future.  I adjusted them to give about 1 drop every couple or three seconds and they keep the ways well oiled.  I would recomend picking some up, eBay is where I got mine.


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## Riverlandrobo (Jan 28, 2021)

Ulma Doctor said:


> personally, i would hitch up and go get it, but i am NOT a sane person
> 
> unfortunately for most folks, a shaper is too antiquated of a technology to be sexy enough to put in their shops.
> i do not subscribe to those thoughts personally.
> ...


I have 3 shapers, 16 in gold and Eberhardt universal toolroom....24 in Ohio Dreadnaught....24 in Rockford Hy-Draulic.....if that has been sitting out in the rain and the surfaces have deep pitting....Walk Away!! Especially down in the bowels where the bull gear resides....keep your eyes open for one out of a high school machine shop or something on that order....that rust gets suspended in the oil and takes all the bearings out....scrap in upper mi. Is 175..180 ton for motor cast iron......that person who left that sit out in the weather should be ashamed of himself......before you move anything oil the heck out of it......I paid 350.00 for my 16 in. universal toolroom and it was inside of a school


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## cjtoombs (Jan 29, 2021)

Riverlandrobo said:


> I have 3 shapers, 16 in gold and Eberhardt universal toolroom....24 in Ohio Dreadnaught....24 in Rockford Hy-Draulic.....if that has been sitting out in the rain and the surfaces have deep pitting....Walk Away!! Especially down in the bowels where the bull gear resides....keep your eyes open for one out of a high school machine shop or something on that order....that rust gets suspended in the oil and takes all the bearings out....scrap in upper mi. Is 175..180 ton for motor cast iron......that person who left that sit out in the weather should be ashamed of himself......before you move anything oil the heck out of it......I paid 350.00 for my 16 in. universal toolroom and it was inside of a school


Depending on where you live and how much work you want to do you can get a good shaper that’s been left outside.  Dryer climates tend not to pit nearly as rapidly, but the machine will need to be completely disassembled and stripped.  My 16” G&E sat out in my yard for three years before I got around to it.  All surface rust, no pitting.  Of course I live in the desert and tore it down completely.  Probably couldn’t get away with that in Florida or on the coast.


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