# Rh Tool Holder Carbide Insert Questions? ??



## umahunter (Sep 10, 2015)

Well I'm looking to  get a rh tool holder for my 10 x 22 that can face and turn  for now I've been  using the usual import set with the tcmt 32.51 triangle inserts but I'd like to try something else. I mostly cut aluminum and occasionally some cold rolled but mostly aluminum.   Ive read I need  a positive rake insert on smaller  machines. Looking for  the most bang for the buck ie most cutting edges per insert. The problem im having is figureing what shape style insert I should  be searching for two I've looked  at  are wnmg which is negative rake ?? And wcmt which is positive and also ccmt vs cnmg any advice would be greatly appreciated


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## Kernbigo (Sep 10, 2015)

this what i use works great on everthing, ebay

SCMT 32.51-F2 TP2500 SECO INSERT

( 180676537937 )
dnforever00718753Buy It NowAdd to cart
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## mikey (Sep 10, 2015)

I would suggest the SCLCR (RH) or SCLCL (LH) tool holders that use CCMT 22.51 or 22.52 inserts. These are diamond shaped positive rake inserts like the above so they have only two usable tips. This holder has a 5 degree clearance angle in front and on the cutting side so you can turn and face with the same tool with the shank of the tool perpendicular to the work.

*Very importantly, the same tool holder also takes CCGT inserts for aluminum with an aggressive positive rake.* These inserts approach HSS in sharpness and cutting ability - they are NOT better than HSS in aluminum but they are close. A CCGT 22.52 will produce a mirror finish in 6061-T6 and will last practically forever. Note that the last digit in the insert designation is the nose radius; a 22.51 is ~1/64" and a 22.52 is ~1/32". Both will give a nice finish, albeit with different feed rates. The holder and inserts are readily available on ebay in sizes that will work on your lathe.

I would suggest a 3/8 holder/bar if using an AXA post. Some companies make 3/8" holders that take the larger 32.5X inserts but they may cost more and the performance of the larger, and possibly more expensive, inserts isn't worth it. I own holders made by Seco, Iscar and ToolMex (Bison?) and all work very well. Chinese knock offs are plentiful on ebay but I cannot attest to the accuracy of the insert pocket as I don't own one.

Inserts for this bar are available in grades and with nose radii to cut almost any machinable material. The cost for the bar and inserts is not unreasonable and they work very well, indeed. They do not outperform HSS on a smaller lathe but if you prefer not to grind tools then this is the one I would go for.


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## umahunter (Sep 12, 2015)

Thanks I think I'm gonna try a toolmex holder in 1/2 inch so far I can only find that holder available to hold 32.51 inserts would  these cut much different than the 32.51 tcmt I've been useing also for aluminum 6061 should I look to pic up ccgt       . 52 instead of .51 is one much greater than the other ???


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## mikey (Sep 12, 2015)

I use an Aloris AXA tool post on my 11" lathe and I cannot get a 1/2" tool low enough to get on center. Not sure if your 10" lathe has a lower compound height but its something to think about.

Most of the 1/2" tool holders will use a 32.5X insert. The 3/8" holders use a 22.5X insert.

You are going to be amazed at how much better a CCGT insert works vs the old triangular style inserts. The CCGT insert for Aluminum (look for AK inserts) have a very positive rake and a very sharp edge. They will easily outperform the TCMT inserts. I also own (but no longer use) triangular tooling; the SCLCR/L tool and insert geometry work far better for me in all materials.

The difference between the .1 and .2 nose radius is significant. The .2 NR will produce a much nicer finish, at a higher feed rate. However, you cannot cut as sharp a shoulder with it. If you cut to a shoulder often then go with the .1 NR and slow your feed. It will still produce a really nice finish. The cost will vary with the seller but I have bought both nose radius inserts for nearly the same price.

Pay attention to the grade of the insert; you want the AK inserts for aluminum. They are made by multiple manufacturers but their size is standardized so brand is not as critical. I prefer Seco or Iscar when the price is fair. Kennametal and Korloy also make these and they work fine.


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## umahunter (Sep 12, 2015)

Cool thanks for the info my lathe can use 1/2 inch tooling that's mostly what I have with the exception of some 3/8 hss so I'm thinking I should be good these are some of the inserts I'm looking  at so far are seco tp2500 and tp40 and some other seco been looking through  thier site trying to find  the difference between  an f1 an f2 chip breaker ???


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## mikey (Sep 12, 2015)

F1 is a finishing chipbreaker suitable for lighter cuts and finer finishes. F2 is for heavier cuts where finishing is less of a concern. The F1 edge is sharper and, perhaps due to the lighter cuts I normally use, defects less in smaller work pieces. I have tried both and find the F1 seems to work better for me. Try one of each and see which you prefer.

Do a search for "seco MN 2012 Turning" and download the pdf. This catalog will give you all the info you need on their inserts. You can then go to Carbide Depot and cross reference them to inserts made by other manufacturers. 

With all that said, and having had a fair amount of experience with these carbide tools in aluminum and most common materials, I still prefer a good HSS tool when tolerances and diameters drop and finishes matter. Here, the proper cutting speed and deflection come into play and on smaller, thinner work pieces you will have a hard time beating a good HSS tool. Just saying ...


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## umahunter (Sep 18, 2015)

Thanks for the help I picked up some korloy and seco inserts and ordered a toolmex holder from latheinserts.com came in today and my holder says zcc.ct Chinese carbide so now I have to get that straightened out


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## Wreck™Wreck (Sep 18, 2015)

You will probably never reach the point where a molded chip breaker will actually work as described in the literature. If and when you do it will seem like magic These are production tools that require feeds, speeds and DOC's that your machine is likely incapable of maintaining, however I have found that the high positive rake sharp aluminum specific inserts do an outstanding j0b on plastics such as PVC and LDPE, you can not break the chips in these materials so just let them fly(-:


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## Bill C. (Sep 18, 2015)

I searched the internet and found this pamphlet, http://www2.coromant.sandvik.com/coromant/pdf/Metalworking_Products_061/tech_a_5.pdf.  I found the section on turning interesting, nose radius was good.  I would suggest whatever you choose to hand fed the carriage the first time.  If you feel a lot of resistance then you will need to use fine cutting feeds. Otherwise I would use a heavier feed to rough and a fine feed to finish.  According to this pamphlet you need the smallest nose radius possible to reduce cutting pressure. On heavier lathes that have more horsepower one can use a larger radius.  Most of the time I used cemented carbide and kept re-sharping it until it popped off.

I hope you find the right tool for your needs.


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## mikey (Sep 19, 2015)

Wreck™Wreck said:


> You will probably never reach the point where a molded chip breaker will actually work as described in the literature. If and when you do it will seem like magic These are production tools that require feeds, speeds and DOC's that your machine is likely incapable of maintaining, however I have found that the high positive rake sharp aluminum specific inserts do an outstanding j0b on plastics such as PVC and LDPE, you can not break the chips in these materials so just let them fly.



You probably need a high speed Swiss lathe to reach the cutting conditions these tools need for optimal performance. Unfortunately, most of us don't have one in our home shops. Still, the SCLCR/L tools are probably the most popular inserted carbide turning tools in the hobby shop because they do work rather well, albeit not as well as they would on a high speed lathe. I actually use and like them, especially in aluminum, but your point is well taken that for the average smaller, slower lathes found in most shops, HSS is a better option.


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