# Tape Measure: I Don't Know How to Use It



## darkzero (Jul 12, 2017)

So today I found this brand new Stanley Fatmax tape measure in my tool box. I thought, oh nice, wonder why I never use this one....

Now I remember. A buddy of mine in Europe that I used to mod flashlights for sent it to me upon my request. You won't see them like this in your local hardware store here in the States.

The damn thing has these funny numbers on it. That's why I never used it, I don't know how! What the heck was I thinking when I asked my buddy to specifically send me one like this!

Just a joke fellas, no offense to the metric guys. And NO, we will never convert over!


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## jim18655 (Jul 12, 2017)

I bought one of those to make antennas since a lot of the programs use metric dimensions.
Wish we would convert so we could get rid of all those silly fractions. You can't imagine how much time I spend teaching students to read a ruler, not to mention adding measurements. Lots of them also can't even tell time on an analog clock.


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## 4GSR (Jul 12, 2017)

I accidently bought a Starrett tape measure that I thought was one the had both metric and inches on it.  Nope! it only reads in mm's and is 5 meter long tape.  Still setting on the book shelf collecting dust.  Matter of fact, I was looking for something the other night and ran across it.  Wiped the dust off of it and put it back on the shelf.  Let my kids worry about it after I'm gone!


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## brino (Jul 12, 2017)

......now if only it had a vernier scale! 
-brino


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## Franko (Jul 12, 2017)

When I was in grade school they said we'd convert to metric. All they did was convert to both. Now it takes twice as many rulers and wrenches and spare nuts and bolts to make or repair anything.

I have a question for our metric pals. Do you ever get so your able to recognize what size a bolt or nut is?


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## darkzero (Jul 12, 2017)

brino said:


> ......now if only it had a vernier scale!
> -brino



No vernier scale but have you ever seen one of these? Haha

Mitutoyo 216-105

For some strange reason I want on but notbfor the prices they have sold on ebay for.


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## GK1918 (Jul 13, 2017)

Don't feel bad I still can't read a yard stick,   micrometers I can


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## Tozguy (Jul 13, 2017)

Franko said:


> When I was in grade school they said we'd convert to metric. All the did was convert to both. Now it takes twice as many rulers and wrenches and spare nuts and bolts to make or repair anything.
> 
> I have a question for our metric pals. Do you ever get so your able to recognize what size a bolt or nut is?



That is our situation here in Canada. With time we accumulate the extra set of tools and get used to the reaching for the right size wrench MOST of the time. What's more, here in Quebec the French language is prevalent so we also need two vocabularies as well. Makes life interesting but when you grow up in it there is no problem. Many of us are conversant in both languages and measurement systems. 

Interesting anecdote, last month I went to the machinery supply store for some 6mm x .9 screws. The clerk measured my sample said that they didn't have that size and didn't know where I could get some. So I went back home to consider my options and decided to rethread the hole to the next largest size. It turned out that the hole was actually 1/4 x 28tpi. and that I had missed the slight difference between the two threads. I went back to the supplier who had plenty of 1/4x 28 screws and who was surprised that he had miss-measured as well the first time around.


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## RJSakowski (Jul 13, 2017)

Easy to do.  M5 x .8mm and 10-32 are even closer;  .006" on the diameter and .00025" on the pitch.  At least for SHC screws, you can tell the difference by the knurling on the Imperial screws.


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## 4GSR (Jul 13, 2017)

darkzero said:


> No vernier scale but have you ever seen one of these? Haha
> 
> Mitutoyo 216-105
> 
> For some strange reason I want on but notbfor the prices they have sold on ebay for.


Dad had one of these he picked up at the local tool company.  We laughed about it.  Don't even remember what happened to it.  Probably one of the grand kids got a hold of it.  
And yeah, crazy, the ebay prices people try to get for these today!


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## RandyM (Jul 13, 2017)

4gsr said:


> Dad had one of these he picked up at the local tool company.  We laughed about it.  Don't even remember what happened to it. * Probably one of the grand kids got a hold of it.*
> And yeah, crazy, the ebay prices people try to get for these today!



 I never realized what I was missing not having grand children. Looks like they come in handy when you misplace things, or break things, find things you didn't know you had.


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## WMello (Jul 13, 2017)

The meter is too long, the centimeter is too short, something like 2 1/2 centimeters would be perfect.

W


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## brino (Jul 13, 2017)

darkzero said:


> No vernier scale but have you ever seen one of these?



I have seen one, in fact I thought it was Lee Valley Tools that carried it, but when I went looking I couldn't find it.

But I did find this one:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=65359&cat=1,43513,65359

Just what everyone needs! 
You could make your own custom scale on it, like your very own "foot", with so many noses per foot.

-brino

Note that certain body parts are not suitable, as they may change in dimension.


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## RJSakowski (Jul 13, 2017)

I have one tape rule that measures in both inches and cm.  It has a DRO and an IN/CM conversion button.


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## British Steel (Jul 13, 2017)

My go-to tape measure is graduated in mm and Rack Units - one U is one and three-quarters inches...

Dave H. (the other one)


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## British Steel (Jul 13, 2017)

brino said:


> Note that certain body parts are not suitable, as they may change in dimension.



Yeah, as I've gone old and grey my nose and ears have grown bigger and hairier - it's an evolutionary adaptation so as you get slower and can't hunt so well you can sneak up on mammoths because they mistake you for one of the herd.

Dave H. (the other one)


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## wawoodman (Jul 13, 2017)

A truism by Garrison Keillor, referring to peeing, while ice fishing...

In the cold, all men are created equal...


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## SSage (Jul 13, 2017)

I know years ago working on Federal construction jobs (like tunnels through a mountain) the metric tapes were required and not optional at all, strictly enforced. Our drawings were all metric, so the Gov specd all metric and they did not want us to convert obviously. I found it very advantageous, it sure did make the layout easier. Young people understand it better and catch on. The average modern idiot can't handle tenths much less converting metric. I was brought up 100% American though, I convert it in my head anyway. But at least with civil layout work it simplifies things.

I always got a chuckle out of watching one jerk know it all General Superintendent trying to shoot grades to show us up and measure in inches using a grade rod, no inches found on my grade rod. You can convert but there is no need. Then he asked to switch to a folding rule and still stared at it, I love giving them the ones without the inch type scale. The best part was he eventually spent two hours shooting grades with a tape measure in inches that meant nothing before I told him why his layout was so far off. He couldn't comprehend the elevations on the drawings. This guy made lots of money for some reason too. I hate working for a rich boss man who is a drunk, but its entertaining. He was sober that morning, but I think some brain cells were harmed already.


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## jim18655 (Jul 13, 2017)

Some place around here I have a self-centering tape. One scale is inches and across from it is the 1/2 measurement. If you need to find the center of something you can direct read 1/2 of the number.  It took me several tried to figure out what it was.


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## Nogoingback (Jul 13, 2017)

Franko said:


> When I was in grade school they said we'd convert to metric. All the did was convert to both. Now it takes twice as many rulers and wrenches and spare nuts and bolts to make or repair anything.
> 
> I have a question for our metric pals. Do you ever get so your able to recognize what size a bolt or nut is?




Sure, it's easy.  Plus, most metric stuff uses 10, 12, 13, 14, or 17 mm wrenches.  That's usually it.  Now, that wasn't hard, was it?


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## Forty Niner (Jul 13, 2017)

Around here in my part of the world we are converting to metric..........................................INCH by INCH!


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## RJSakowski (Jul 13, 2017)

Here is the first of a three part series on how we got to where we are today in the measurement of things.
http://wptschedule.org/series/2819/Precision-The-Measure-of-All-Things/


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## aliva (Jul 13, 2017)

The best way to read the tape is to take the number multiply by 25 divide by pie, subtract 3.1346 find the square root of the result, then multiply by the log of 11.6 then add the cosine of 56.89 degrees. 
When you get the answer disregard it and buy an imperial tape measure


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## woodchucker (Jul 13, 2017)

Franko said:


> When I was in grade school they said we'd convert to metric. All the did was convert to both. Now it takes twice as many rulers and wrenches and spare nuts and bolts to make or repair anything.
> 
> I have a question for our metric pals. Do you ever get so your able to recognize what size a bolt or nut is?


I'm here in the US and I can eyeball most sizes.  I guess I have worked with it enough starting with motorcycles and then high performance cars. Now it's pretty easy.


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## woodchucker (Jul 13, 2017)

RJSakowski said:


> I have one tape rule that measures in both inches and cm.  It has a DRO and an IN/CM conversion button.
> 
> View attachment 237473



Not something I would own... to me thats a gadget I can do without. Just Saying.


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## kd4gij (Jul 13, 2017)

I have one of these around some place
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Polish-Tape...899924?hash=item489f28da14:g:HRcAAOSwLcNZWA96


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## RJSakowski (Jul 13, 2017)

woochucker said:


> Not something I would own... to me thats a gadget I can do without. Just Saying.


I bought it because it was a curiosity and dirt cheap ( free or almost, with the rebate).   At the time, I thought that it might have possibilities as a super cheap DRO for my table saw.  However, it only reads to 1/16" and I usually work to 1/64" so it remains only a curiosity.  It has an interesting encoding system.  It kind of looks like a bar code and reads out absolute position.

I believe that I used it once in the years that I've had it and that was just because it happened to be handy.  As it stands now, the battery is dead and at $4. each, it won't be replaced.


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## Joncooey (Jul 13, 2017)

Funny thing about Canada, you can't find a metric tape up here and we've been metric since '75.  You can get a tape that has both standard and metric (one on either side of the blade which is a pain to use) but if you want to get a pure metric tape you really have to look.  Metric has it's strong points; I use it in the winter 'cause water freezing at 0 degrees C makes more sense to me than at 32 F.  Then in the summer 27C doesn't seem too hot but 80F does, so I switch back to standard.  Same as height, I'm about 5'9'' I can work with that but I have no idea how tall 176cm is.  And when you're working with something big like 40 feet or bigger the metric numbers start getting really big.  It is certainly not a perfect system as the Europeans would have you think.  I was raised with both systems, too, so I guess if all that you know is one or the other that is what you think is best.


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## Franko (Jul 13, 2017)

A lot of the photo equipment I modify and fabricate uses metric. I got pretty familiar with metric working on my motorcycle. But, not using it as much, it is more difficult for me to recognize metric as easily as imperial 6, 8, 10, 1/4, 5/16 and 3/8, without gauging. It seems there are about a dozen different metrics to fill those slots.

I have invested in well over a hundred dollars worth of thread gauges. I have some threaded plate hole and screw gauges, as well as a couple male and female that are strung on cable. I even have one of those that hangs on the wall like they have at good (extinct) hardware stores.


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## RJSakowski (Jul 13, 2017)

I was first exposed to the metric system in physics and chemistry classes back in the sixties.  It is used exclusively there.  Since then, I have used both, going back and forth between them.  Like someone learning a second language, I have to translate from one to the other.  Having learned the Imperial system more than sixty years ago, I intrinsically think in Imperial measurement, doing a mental calculation to get the metric equivalent.  

Temperature is a bit tricky as it's not a simple ratio.  Early on I developed the the method "add 40, multiply or divide by 1.8, subtract 40"  (It works because -40ºC = -40ºF).  I can do that on in my head.  I use the approximation 1mm = .040", as do most of the Asian machine manufacturers and 2.5cm/inch.   A liter is a little bigger than a quart and a meter is slightly bigger  (10%) than a yard.  A kilometer is 5/8ths of a mile and a lb. is slightly less than a kilogram (well, 10% again).  This all gets me in the ball park which is usually close enough. 

Past that, when I need more accuracy, I know the basic conversion factors and there's always a calculator close at hand.  One trick that I use  in converting to and from metric is to adjust my digital caliper to the value I want to convert and hit the IN/MM button.  A DRO can be used similarly, entering a subdatum point and hitting the IN/MM button.

Eventually, the metric system will win out, largely because the US is trailing behind China in manufacturing and nearly everything coming out of China is metric.  Brexit notwithstanding, British pubs will eventually stop selling beer in pints in favor of 50 or 60  centiliters.  Wine has already gone that way there.  Their pint is kind of crazy anyway, being 20 oz. instead of 16.  The pint's a pound, the world around, don'tcha know. 

With the automotive industry almost entirely metric and most of our food listed in both Imperial and metric, there isn't a lot left. Things like clothing and footwear have been using some strange system which only those in the business understand anyway.  The scientific community has been metric for decades.  Measurements in the field of electric/electronics have been metric for ages.  I expect that the building trades will be among the last holdouts.  Buildings are relatively long term and there would have to be an extended period of supplying both systems, metric for new construction and Imperial for replacement purposes.

One way or another, it's coming.  We can resist or we can go with the flow

Cheers!


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## 4GSR (Jul 13, 2017)

Yeah, two of my customers,  i have to provide dual dimensions on the drawings i do for them. Once they get the drawings, they go in and put Chinese wording, hirigariphs, i call them on the drawings.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk


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## AGCB97 (Jul 14, 2017)

woochucker said:


> I'm here in the US and I can eyeball most sizes.  I guess I have worked with it enough starting with motorcycles and then high performance cars. Now it's pretty easy.



Me too. And in the 90s I scratch built a French engineered airplane that was all and only in MM. Had to buy a metric tape then.


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## British Steel (Jul 14, 2017)

At least these are all standardised dimensions - for a real minefield look at women's dress sizes, where a USA size 0 is about an English size 10, and the more expensive the dress shop the bigger each size gets so a cheap shop's size 12 is labelled size 8 in the high-fashion, high-price stores to make the buyers happy.

And don't you dare buy her a 14 when she thinks she's a 12, you'll NEVER get back in her good books... 

Dave H. (the other one)


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## Tozguy (Jul 14, 2017)

Along the lines that RJ mentioned, the building trades still use the ole lumber sizes like 2x4, etc. but which are not very accurate, more of a name than a dimension. Many building materials are manufactured to metric dimensions for the international market but are converted to approximate inch labels for specific markets. The inch system does not seem to have much of a future in America even if there is no official decision to convert to metric.


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## RJSakowski (Jul 14, 2017)

British Steel said:


> At least these are all standardised dimensions - for a real minefield look at women's dress sizes, where a USA size 0 is about an English size 10, and the more expensive the dress shop the bigger each size gets so a cheap shop's size 12 is labelled size 8 in the high-fashion, high-price stores to make the buyers happy.
> 
> And don't you dare buy her a 14 when she thinks she's a 12, you'll NEVER get back in her good books...
> 
> Dave H. (the other one)


One of the things my wife liked about coming to the US was she instantly lost four dress sizes.

However, I would never buy my wife clothing of any sort.  That's like walking into a minefield.


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## brino (Jul 14, 2017)

jim18655 said:


> Some place around here I have a self-centering tape. One scale is inches and across from it is the 1/2 measurement. If you need to find the center of something you can direct read 1/2 of the number. It took me several tried to figure out what it was.



Lee Valley also has the centre-finding tape:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32558&cat=1,43513

I could see a use for that.

-brino


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## jim18655 (Jul 14, 2017)

British Steel said:


> And don't you dare buy her a 14 when she thinks she's a 12, you'll NEVER get back in her good books...
> 
> Dave H. (the other one)



If buying clothes for your wife *ALWAYS *buy them too small. It's easier to return them with a happy spouse than live with the wrath of "how big do you think I am?" even if you might be right.


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## jim18655 (Jul 14, 2017)

brino said:


> Lee Valley also has the centre-finding tape:
> http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32558&cat=1,43513
> 
> I could see a use for that.
> ...



If you take a tape and angle it across what you are trying to find the center of, so that the edge is on a whole number, then 1/2 of that number is the center. No need to do the fractions. Won't work on small width parts such as pipe or narrow strips of wood but it does come in handy.


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## LucknowKen (Jul 14, 2017)

Joncooey said:


> Funny thing about Canada,....we've been metric since '75.


Ask the guy at Home Deepo to sell you some metric lumber.


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## Nogoingback (Jul 14, 2017)

RJSakowski said:


> Eventually, the metric system will win out, largely because the US is trailing behind China in manufacturing and nearly everything coming out of China is metric.  Brexit notwithstanding, British pubs will eventually stop selling beer in pints in favor of 50 or 60  centiliters.  Wine has already gone that way there.  Their pint is kind of crazy anyway, being 20 oz. instead of 16.  The pint's a pound, the world around, don'tcha know.
> 
> 
> One way or another, it's coming.  We can resist or we can go with the flow
> ...



See, that's why Chinese kids score so much better in math than kids in the U.S.  They don't have to spend all of third and fourth grade teaching them how to work with fractions!


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## Desolus (Jul 15, 2017)

darkzero said:


> So today I found this brand new Stanley Fatmax tape measure in my tool box. I thought, oh nice, wonder why I never use this one....
> 
> Now I remember. A buddy of mine in Europe that I used to mod flashlights for sent it to me upon my request. You won't see them like this in your local hardware store here in the States.
> 
> ...




Being a 90's kid, I use metric and imperial fluently; there's no need for me to convert to anything.


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## brino (Jul 15, 2017)

Nogoingback said:


> They don't have to spend all of third and fourth grade teaching them how to work with fractions!



It's not _ALL_ of fourth grade, just four quarters of it!
-brino


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## Radarguy (Aug 1, 2017)

Just a little trivia that I believe has been lost in the last 40 years.  As a left handed person I pick up on these things but did you know that the tape measure you buy in the tool stores now a days is a left handed ruler?

Back in the days of folding wooden rulers it was common to be able to purchase a left handed or right handed ruler.  But for some reason, I don't know why, when the tool manufacturers went to these automatic tape measures they settled on making only left handed models.

How can you tell, you may ask.  Or whats the difference?  The difference is in which hand you hold the ruler, which hand you write with and do you want to see the numbers right side up or upside down.  Take this test!   So if you write with your right hand hold your pencil and grab your tape measure in your left hand and extend it naturally to the right.  The numbers are upside down.  So have you noticed that if you want the numbers to be right side up, you have to either switch hands that you hold your pencil with or cross your arms.  Very awkward for the righty.  

If your at a flea market or antique tool sale you may find some old wooden folding rulers that are right handed.

Anyway, that's my trivia for the day.  

Russell


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## 4GSR (Aug 4, 2017)

Another trivia bit.  Anyone that has ever worked in a structural fabricators shop should know this.  The dimensions on the drawings are always dimensioned and measured from left to right horizontally and from bottom to top for vertical dimensions.  Totally the opposite of what most of us mechanical designers dimension.  We do linear horizontal dimensions from right to left, just as you would cut the part on the lathe from right to left.  Now, on the mill, it varies, but we try to follow the structural guys way left to right.


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## RJSakowski (Aug 4, 2017)

Radarguy said:


> Just a little trivia that I believe has been lost in the last 40 years.  As a left handed person I pick up on these things but did you know that the tape measure you buy in the tool stores now a days is a left handed ruler?
> 
> Back in the days of folding wooden rulers it was common to be able to purchase a left handed or right handed ruler.  But for some reason, I don't know why, when the tool manufacturers went to these automatic tape measures they settled on making only left handed models.
> 
> ...


An interesting theory.  I'm a lefty and I use the tape rule in either hand, depending upon what I am measuring.  Where the tape rule is when I pick it up may also have something to do with which hand I use as well.  But then, I'm comfortable reading the rule upside down or on it's side and I usually measure once, measure twice, and then write the number down after laying the rule down, if at all.

I asked my neighbor, who is a contractor and lives by his tape rule which hand he measured with.  He is a lefty and uses his left hand almost exclusively and reads the rule upside down.

I would have thought that the reason would be that we read and write from left to right so numbers ascending from left to right would be more natural and once a so -designed rule became commonplace, it would become a defacto standard.


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## Silverbullet (Aug 5, 2017)

Nogoingback said:


> See, that's why Chinese kids score so much better in math than kids in the U.S.  They don't have to spend all of third and fourth grade teaching them how to work with fractions!


As soon as I learned decimal equivalents I converted all fractions to numbers in school made life easier . Even the teachers couldn't figure out how I was doing it bet your rash I didn't tell them .


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## Silverbullet (Aug 5, 2017)

They sell or use to sell tape measures with the CTC marked along or on the back of the tape. I have one and a steel rule set up with the inch lines going both ways from center twelve inch to 0 to twelve inch made center finding easy on layouts.


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## jim18655 (Aug 5, 2017)

Tapes have the belt clip so it hangs on your right side. Kind of almost forces you to use your right hand to measure and left hand to write.


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## 4GSR (Aug 6, 2017)

Silverbullet said:


> As soon as I learned decimal equivalents I converted all fractions to numbers in school made life easier . Even the teachers couldn't figure out how I was doing it bet your rash I didn't tell them .


Used to do the same thing.  Until the teachers made me do thing long hand and show your work!  Of course, that blew their mind too!


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## taycat (Aug 18, 2017)

Franko said:


> When I was in grade school they said we'd convert to metric. All they did was convert to both. Now it takes twice as many rulers and wrenches and spare nuts and bolts to make or repair anything.
> 
> I have a question for our metric pals. Do you ever get so your able to recognize what size a bolt or nut is?



yes you do.
but work in both my 9 yr old boy had his homework rejected cos he did it in imperial measurements.
i complained to school and they graded it for him as didn't specify what measurements to use.
also teacher couldn't work out measurements as only knew metric.


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## RJSakowski (Aug 18, 2017)

Radarguy said:


> Back in the days of folding wooden rulers it was common to be able to purchase a left handed or right handed ruler.


I finally found my Stanley folding rule and it is both left handed and right handed.


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