# A $2,500 Muliple Choice Question:



## Robo_Pi (Feb 8, 2019)

This is a restricted make-pretend thread.  For hobbyists only.   

Here's the scoop:
You have $2500 burning a hole in your pocket.   And you need to put out the fire.  

You have the following four choices, the last choice being entirely up to you:

*Choice A*: *Backhoe High-lift*

You can buy a backhoe-high-lift tractor for $2500.   It runs and could be used as-is in a pinch, but is in dire need of a complete rebuild. 
(_the saving grace is that the tires are all in fairly decent shape_)  Note: this is just a generic hypothetical, no actual tractors have been harmed.






*Choice B*:  *Lathe, Vertical Mill, Surface Grinder*

You can buy all three of the following machines.  All are old used equipment.  All run and could be used as-is, but will definitely need some TLC and potentially a complete rebuild.   Keep in mind, you're supposed to be thinking like a hobbyist, not a business person.

Lathe:




Vertical Mill:





Surface Grinder:




*Choice C*: *Saxophone*

You can buy a really nice saxophone and learn to play the blues so you can drown your sorrows in music for not having the above toys.





*Choice D*:  *Your choice*

What would you spend the money on?

No fair saving up to buy something more expensive!   You've got to put this pocket fire out now.







~~~~~~~~~

*Recap*

*A: Backhoe/High-lift that needs a lot of work and TLC. 
B: Lathe, Vertical Mill, Surface Grinder, that also need a lot of work and TLC.
C: The saxophone?*
*D: Other - Your choice. *

This thread is just for fun, so don't be getting too serious on me or you'll burst my bubble. 

I'm actually thinking between A and B in real life.  (_leaning heavily toward B_)  I already own two saxophones, so I don't need to consider C.  

But I might consider D if someone comes up with some great suggestions that interest me.   It's always nice to have options.


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## Z2V (Feb 8, 2019)

Well, I’ll go with D.
D being that this is a hobby machinist discussion so I obviously have a interest. I would buy the used machine that interest me the most and use the remainder of the $2500 for tooling for that machine. When my pocket gets another $2500 in it that’s burning me I would do this again for the next machine of interest.
Repeat, repeat, repeat, well you get the idea


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## derf (Feb 8, 2019)

D.    The first 3 choices all require some kind of labor......I'd take the $2500 to Vegas.


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## savarin (Feb 8, 2019)

A good quality 3d printer.
The three machines sounds great but I've too many projects on the burner to get round to them.


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## mmcmdl (Feb 8, 2019)

I have a Kubota FEL .
I have a 1965 original King Super 20 tenor sax .
I've owned many of the above mentioned machines .

Got any more choices ? 

Edit. 3 pt stump grinder for the Kubota . $2299 plus $299 shipping from Ontario . I'm a buck over budget !


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## JimDawson (Feb 8, 2019)

I choose A.  I don't have a backhoe 

I already have the rest of the items, and I don't need the sax.


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## Robo_Pi (Feb 8, 2019)

Z2V said:


> Well, I’ll go with D.
> D being that this is a hobby machinist discussion so I obviously have a interest. I would buy the used machine that interest me the most and use the remainder of the $2500 for tooling for that machine. When my pocket gets another $2500 in it that’s burning me I would do this again for the next machine of interest.
> Repeat, repeat, repeat, well you get the idea



That's no doubt the wisest choice of all.   I'm too impatient.  I need to have everything at once.   And it always ends in disaster.  I can't seem to learn from my bad choices.



derf said:


> D.    The first 3 choices all require some kind of labor......I'd take the $2500 to Vegas.



Have fun!  I have no interest in going to Vegas if I won an all-expenses paid free trip I'd turn it down.   But if that's your thing, by all means ENJOY!




savarin said:


> A good quality 3d printer.
> The three machines sounds great but I've too many projects on the burner to get round to them.



I too have too many projects in the fire.  But that never seems to stop me.  I'm currently rebuilding two antique cars and an semi-antique truck.  The last thing I need are three machines that need to be rebuilt.  But for some reason I always seem to be buying the last things I need. 

I do love to rebuild and restore things though.  I think I'm more interested in restoring those machine than in actually using them.  Go figure.


mmcmdl said:


> Edit. 3 pt stump grinder for the Kubota . $2299 plus $299 shipping from Ontario . I'm a buck over budget !



That's ok.   Buy it anyway!     You only go around once in this life, why put up with stumps when you don't need to? 



JimDawson said:


> I choose A. I don't have a backhoe



I could put that backhoe to good use!   I should probably by it myself.  But my thinking is that if I bought the backhoe then I'd be wishing I had the machines to repair it.    Since you already have the machines to repair it you're in great shape!


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## westerner (Feb 8, 2019)

Oh, my! It is Friday, long tough week behind, a couple of "quality" beers behind, and THIS post comes up! Thank you!

OK, so first off- I broke in to the dirt world on a 580 CK similar to the one pictured, back around 1983. WORE OUT the first time I ever saw it, and I ran and worked on that poor old POS for 10 years after. Hated it then. I would gladly, and quickly, dislocate my shoulder today, reaching for the $2500 to buy it now. 

Been an amateur machinist for many years, and have recently bought some machinery to fiddle with in retirement, hopefully coming soon. 
Got about $5500 in a mill and lathe, a fair bit of tooling. No Grinder.

So, so far I aint much help, am I?


derf said:


> D. The first 3 choices all require some kind of labor......I'd take the $2500 to Vegas.



Derf has a good point, and a solid plan.

You got a couple of sax, so I assume you know how THAT game goes. 

I say- Take your sax to the club, play it loose ,enjoy an adult beverage or two.  Let the whole thing marinade. 
Look VERY closely at the plan Derf has presented. 

I am sure a course of action will present itself








1


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## Robo_Pi (Feb 8, 2019)

westerner said:


> Been an amateur machinist for many years, and have recently bought some machinery to fiddle with in retirement, hopefully coming soon.
> Got about $5500 in a mill and lathe, a fair bit of tooling. No Grinder.



I'm sure if I buy those machines I'll end up putting more than twice what I paid for them into them, but I'm expecting that. 

I am so easily distracted anymore.  I've been watching "_This Old Tony_" videos recently and I really enjoyed the one where he resurfaces the ways on a grinding machine.  I could really get into doing that.  I'm more interested in rebuilding the grinder than in actually using it. 

This is also a bit of nostalgia for me.   I used to have a South Bend lathe and a Bridgeport mill.  I'm really sick that I don't still have them.   So this is kind  of my attempt to recreate by-gone days.    And I've always wanted a surface grinder anyway, so why not toss it in the mix while I'm at it?

What's the reality going to be?

I'll probably just play the saxophones that I already have and just leave it at that.   But I'm really drooling over these old machines.  And from a practical perspective I should really buy the backhoe.  I have far more practical use for it.   But since when have I ever been practical?   

If I was a practical person I'd still have my old South Bend lathe and Bridgeport mill and I wouldn't need to be dreaming about replacing them.   I had a lot of tooling for them too.  So this will be starting from scratch again.  Not sure if I'll live long enough to realize the full dream of restoration, but can't be worried about that.   Just plan to live forever and if it don't happen, so what?  Right?

I certainly won't be worried about unfinished projects after that.   

It's this blasted internet to blame for all my problems.   If I hadn't of run across _This Old Tony's_ YouTube channel I probably wouldn't even be here right now talking about this stuff.   I'd probably be out getting in trouble some other way.   I'm just too easily distracted.   I should go join a nursing home and just lay around in bed all day talking to the nurses.   That'll keep me out of trouble.


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## brino (Feb 8, 2019)

lemme see........let's take this logically......


I would need the back-hoe to move the equipment (lathe, mill and surface grinder)......
I would need the equipment to fix the back-hoe.....
I have I have no interest in playing the sax (I love the sound, but that is so foreign to me it would be so much work!)
But (slightly) more seriously......
I've already got a lathe and mill, so I'd get the grinder, some grinding wheels, a mag chuck and some quality parallels, and then I'd throw the rest in an RRSP in a desperate attempt to get to play with all these toys a few months sooner.

-brino


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## Bob Korves (Feb 8, 2019)

E.  None of the above.  I really have all the stuff I need in life, and more, and trinkets do not amuse me.  I just hope to continue enjoying life in retirement and having fun with friends and loved ones.  But, if somebody has a deal I can't refuse, please, please let me know!


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## ezduzit (Feb 8, 2019)

Re: A--I broke into the dirt world in the '50's, running heavy equipment such as diesel shovel, bulldozer, backhoe/loader. Had a Case 530 CK. For $2500 you won't get anything worthwhile.

Re: B--$2500 for lathe, mill and surface grinder is also bottom feeding (I know--got my lathe and mill for $2k). You'd be much better off buying just 1 quality machine, in good condition, and with a comprehensive tooling package. 

Don't squander your money away bottom feeding. Hold off for quality and get something you'll be proud of.


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## Robo_Pi (Feb 8, 2019)

ezduzit said:


> Don't squander your money away bottom feeding. Hold off for quality and get something you'll be proud of.



Actually the things I'm most proud of in life are the things I've either built from scratch myself, or have rebuilt from junk that would have otherwise been trashed. 

Think about.  If I show off an antique lathe that I rebuilt everyone will be looking at it with ooo's and awe's saying, "_Man you did a good job on that lathe_".

If I show them a nice lathe that I had just gone out and bought, they'd say, "_So what are you going to build with that?_"

In the first case it's an achievement.  In the second case it's just another tool.


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## mmcmdl (Feb 8, 2019)

Robo_Pi said:


> I should go join a nursing home and just lay around in bed all day talking to the nurses. That'll keep me out of trouble.



Or .................................get you into MORE trouble .


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## astjp2 (Feb 8, 2019)

Look for a 4x4 backhoe and a smaller lathe...the mill looks rusty, the surface grinder I am not sure.  I have good dealed my self to broke several times, I am starting to sell off a few projects now...


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## Robo_Pi (Feb 9, 2019)

Bob Korves said:


> E.  None of the above.  I really have all the stuff I need in life, and more, and trinkets do not amuse me.  I just hope to continue enjoying life in retirement and having fun with friends and loved ones.  But, if somebody has a deal I can't refuse, please, please let me know!



I totally agree with your idea of enjoying life with friends and loved ones.  That's the best thing in life to be sure.  Unfortunately it's also something that money can't buy.    All my friends and loved ones have already gone to the great beyond.   And it's really quite difficult to replace them.   So yeah, as long as you have that option available to you consider yourself very lucky indeed. 

Some of us have nothing left but cold hard metal to befriend.  

It's quite difficult in this day and age to find good friends if you don't already have them.   Most of my friends today are nothing more than avatars on the Internet.   Or they are you tubers who's videos I watch a lot, but who don't even know that I exist.   Kind of a one-way type of friendship, if you will.  None the less, I appreciate them creating their videos and sharing what they do.   Those are the extent of my friends.

I used to have two really cool cats, but both of them kicked the bucket recently too.   Now all I have left is a bunch of gold fish in aquariums.  Strangely even they are better than being all alone.   But let's face it, they don't talk much. 

So my tools and projects are the only "_best friends and loved ones_" I have left. 

I do have a few living friends, but they live hundreds of miles away.   We keep in touch via phone calls.   It's better than having no friends at all.   But what are you going to do after you hang up the phone?   Tools and projects are all that's left after that.   It's either that or sit around listening to the rocking chair squeak.


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## higgite (Feb 9, 2019)

I'm going with Choice D. Do you know how many beers $2500 will buy? Me neither, but I intend to find out.

Tom


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## Bob Korves (Feb 9, 2019)

Robo_Pi said:


> I totally agree with your idea of enjoying life with friends and loved ones.  That's the best thing in life to be sure.  Unfortunately it's also something that money can't buy.    All my friends and loved ones have already gone to the great beyond.   And it's really quite difficult to replace them.   So yeah, as long as you have that option available to you consider yourself very lucky indeed.
> 
> Some of us have nothing left but cold hard metal to befriend.
> 
> ...


Just with our 'local' machining group I have 30 friends, friends that I get together with regularly and have common interests with.  Today I spent  several hours in the shop of a machinist friend in our local group, who is also a member of Hobby Machinist.  We had a great time talking about some vintage tools he had picked up, and also talked about how he is approaching the latest work that he is doing these days in his shop.  We both helped each other learn while we talked, and got excited about it.

Machining does NOT need to be a sport for hermits!  Besides sharing knowledge and techniques about all the sub parts of machining, like concepts, design, materials, machinery, and physically making the parts, there is also the joy and fulfillment of success and expanding our horizons, and having others to help us out when we are confused, concerned, or scared and clueless, or just needing physical help to move something heavy, can be really useful to help us mature as well as building community among us.  We do this on H-M, and we also do it with our local friends and mentors.  

I started in machining all alone, by myself, and being a believer in chasing knowledge, I searched for information and knowledge everywhere I could, mostly these days on the internet.  There is tons of good stuff there, some not so good information, and it was (and still can be) difficult to know and understand the differences by myself.  It can also be scary and dangerous sometimes.  Machining, fabricating, welding, casting, forging, etc., can all be really dangerous without well understood and proper knowledge.  And well understood knowledge sometimes requires help to get the concepts across clearly to us.  That seems to best be done in person, with back and forth and approaching it from different directions until a mutual understanding is reached.  It is really nice to have a teacher, even if he or she is usually thought of as a buddy.  It is even better to have many teachers, and to teach others yourself -- as friends.

All this is a lot of WORDS for saying we all need help, support, friends -- we all need each other to make life (and machining) as good as it can be.  A journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step -- take that step...


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## Robo_Pi (Feb 9, 2019)

Bob Korves said:


> All this is a lot of WORDS for saying we all need help, support, friends -- we all need each other to make life (and machining) as good as it can be. A journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step -- take that step...



I'm already here.


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## cathead (Feb 9, 2019)

I'd buy A and fix it with B.                  I have B.


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## Robo_Pi (Feb 9, 2019)

cathead said:


> I'd buy A and fix it with B.                  I have B.



That's the situation I'd like to be in.

This is 2019.   This year I buy B.  And enjoy the restortation hobby on the machines.   

I wouldn't be going for an immaculate rebuild.  Just whatever it takes to make them practically usable (_i.e. usable for all practical purposes_)

Then in 2020 I'll be in your shoes and I can pick up the backhoe then. 

That's my thinking. 

And I know, some people are going to say, "_Why not just buy a better backhoe to begin with?_".   But that's not the point.  I want the machine shop too!

I'm greedy that way.  

Besides, last year I bought a sawmill for $2500 and used it to make lumber to build the machine shop building.  (it's not quite finished yet, but it's actually half finished, complete with a shingled roof).  Yep, just half a building so far.   I'm hoping to finish the other half this year. 

I have the dreams and ambition of a 20-year-old but my body insists on acting like a 70-year-old.  I can only climb up and down those ladders so many times before I need to go in and lay down for a while.  

Baby steps.


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## Martin W (Feb 9, 2019)

Offer Person A $1250. Then you have a loader to help get Person B 's machines( who by the way took only $1000 for all three) on machinery skates to move them into your shop. This leaves you $250 for beer for all your helpers.
I know ,I'm not a lot of help. 
Cheers
Martin


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## ConValSam (Feb 9, 2019)

Well, this starts my weekend in a fun way.

Gotta be B.  Then future you can fix the backhoe, straighten the saxophone and make all manner of other unnecessary metal objects!  All after having had an excellent experience fixing the old iron.


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## jwmay (Feb 9, 2019)

If I had an extra 2500 burning a hole in my pocket there's a little firefighting team I keep around for such emergencies.  I call them the wife and kids.  I often tell people they are the reason I carry no cash.  Inevitably, and without fail, the moment I draw cash from an ATM, both kids have a need for some of it, and the wife wants to go out to eat.   But somehow, so long as that wallet stays empty, nobody needs anything. 

Anyhow, I guess if it was me, I'd buy two of the three machines, and forego the surface grinder.  People do amazing things with them I know.  But for what I do, there's simply no need.  Plus, I've got an irrational fear of grinding dust, and I'm too lazy to do the appropriate things to mitigate dust inhalation...which maybe makes it a rational fear after all.


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## Robo_Pi (Feb 9, 2019)

Speaking of grinding dust, I just spent the last hour or so grinding down a brand new 1/2" HS tool bit.   I'm making it into a threading tool so it took a lot of grinding.  I just got done making a 30 degree sled to hold the tool bit on the grinder table.   I'm not even done grinding on it yet but I'm real close to the end of the process. 

But the whole time I was thinking how quick, easy, and accurate that job would have gone on a surface grinder.   I know that's overkill for the job, but if you have a surface grinder laying around why not use it?   I saw video by "This Old Tony" where he ground down a threading tool on his surface grinder.   He didn't actually show the process.   He actually showed how to do it on a regular bench grinder, but then confessed that he actually did his using his surface grinder.  

There's a lot of things I'd do on a surface grinder that a lot of people probably wouldn't even think to use one for.   Overkill, but fun.


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## jwmay (Feb 9, 2019)

It seems like it might be fun to tie a saddle to one , sans spindle at the local tavern and sell rides for 10 dollars.  Bet you didn't think of that.


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## Bob Korves (Feb 9, 2019)

Robo_Pi said:


> I'm already here.


Exactly!  Use this resource, and find more as well.


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## Robo_Pi (Feb 9, 2019)

Bob Korves said:


> Exactly!  Use this resource, and find more as well.



That's what I'm doing.  I've also been watching a lot of YouTube videos,  This Old Tony, Abom79, mrpete222 or Tubalcain, any many others.

I'm not exactly new to machining though.  I used to be a machinist myself many years ago.  So I already know quite a bit about this stuff.   I'm just now getting back into it.   

I do have a new question however.   I just discovered a new lathe that I never heard of before it's called a Sheldon Sebastian 

I'm looking one this one,... for $999.




It's a 16" swing 39" bed.  It's Sheldon Catalog Model B-6.

Anyone know anything about these Sheldon Sebastian lathes?

I found this one on another site.  Only slightly cleaner asking $3700




Just wondering how well-known these are.   And what they are like.  It obviously has the quick-change gearbox, and it also appears to be variable speed?  I'm just guessing at the variable speed because the levers look like they can be turned.   I'm wondering how the variable speed works?  I'm guessing it's some kind of mechanical belt pulley cone that changes size when the levers are turned?

I'm also wondering if anyone knows where I could download a free PDF manual for this lathe.  I did a search for a PDF manual but struck out.   I don't want to pay for the manual because I don't own the lathe.  I'd just like to look through it before buying one like this. 

By the way, I'm just window shopping right now.   I'm a fan of the old South Bend lathes, but I'll take pretty much anything I can get a really good deal on.   But I like to know something about it before buying.  I know what the South Bend lathes are like, so I know what I'm getting into with them.   But I never heard of these Sheldon Sebastians before.


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## markba633csi (Feb 9, 2019)

Sheldons are a step up from South Bend. Heavier and more rigid, more rare though not as many around
Mark


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## FOMOGO (Feb 9, 2019)

I have all of the above, less the sax. Sooo, I'd be spending most of it on wine, women, and song. The rest I'd waste. At least that's what my grandpa used to say. Of course he also used to say, "eat drink and make Mary, for tomorrow she may leave".  I think I would be a sucker for the $999 special, if it checked out decent. Cheers, Mike


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## pdentrem (Feb 9, 2019)

A- have a Kubota BX2370 with front loader and a Kubota U35 excavator.
B- Already have a lathe that didn’t need too much to get going. I can use one of the Bridgeport mills in the machine shop area of work, though it would be nice to have one!
C- have guitar that needs more playing already!
D- I would get a thumb for the excavator. Best money for the use of this machine.


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## RJSakowski (Feb 9, 2019)

The logical choice would be D.  With that choice, I can pick either A, B, or C should I wish.  More likely, since I already have two mills and two lathes, I would buy the surface grinder only and use the remainder of the money towards  geting it back into shape or for something else.  I already have a 4WD tractor with a front end loader and although the backhoe wold be useful at times, not often enough to warrant spending $2500.


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## Robo_Pi (Feb 9, 2019)

markba633csi said:


> Sheldons are a step up from South Bend. Heavier and more rigid, more rare though not as many around
> Mark


 
This one probably won't stick around long enough for me to grab it then.   Gotta fix the clutch in my truck before I go dragging any lathes around with the trailer. 

I know the guys on this forum are concerned that I'll buy a piece of junk that isn't even worth repairing.  But a $1000 lathe would need to be in some seriously bad shape for that to be the case.   Barring a major casting crack, or something catastrophic like that, you could always just clean it up real pretty and re-sell it to get the grand back it is wasn't looking good enough for a total rebuild. 

Not only that but if you take it straight to the metal scrap yard you'd probably get close to $500 for it.  Defnitely that much or more if you take it apart and scrap the metal in small pieces.  You get almost twice a much per pound for smaller pieces than if you took in the whole lathe as one piece. 

And just think of how everyone would be screaming if I took one to the metal scrap yard.    You'd be far better parting it out.   In fact, I'm willing to bet that you could probably make a business out of buying every lathe you can find for under a grand and just parting them out. 

Especially something like a Sheldon if there aren't that many around.   This one is probably worth $3000 in parts alone. 

I just don't see how you can lose buying a full-size lathe for under a grand.    It'd be really hard to lose money on it. 

I'll bet this one is gone before the end of this week.   I can't grab it that quick.  So boo hoo on that. 

You watch.  After I get my clutch fixed they won't have anymore cheap lathes.


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## Robo_Pi (Feb 9, 2019)

RJSakowski said:


> since I already have two mills and two lathes



See.  I'm not the only greedy person around.    I don't have any and you have two of each.  That's not fair. 

I do have a lathe/mill combo though.  

But it's almost a toy.    I say '_almost_' because it's actually not that bad.  It's pretty darn powerful and has quite a bit of capacity actually (i.e. 17" swing)   But still, it has limitations.   No quick-change gear box so every time I want to change feed speeds I need to change gears manually, and I'm actually planning on doing some serious threading here too.   So I'm hungry for a quick-change gearbox.


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## Splat (Feb 11, 2019)

I'd take "D". Now that I know enough about lathes and mills to hopefully not get taken....too badly  ... I would try to find a nice used lathe and mill. I've already got my professional drum kits anyway.


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## Eddyde (Feb 11, 2019)

Since I already have the three machine tools and I'm not musical, I would go with A the backhoe.


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