# VFD setup: Brook Crompton motor, Teco vfd



## Splat (Feb 12, 2018)

Posted this in the Grizzly sub but figure it may get more looks here.  It appears my stock G4003G motor is on the way out. I replaced the capacitors and the motor still has trouble getting and maintaining anything over 500rpm. I've thought about taking the motor to a local shop to see about refurbing it but I've been thinking of just going to VFD 220v 3 phase. Dealer's Electric has *this* Brook Crompton drop-in replacement metric motor but I know nothing about them. For the VFD I'm considering *this* Teco N3-202-CS-U. The motor's a lot more than I want to spend but I can drive to Dealer's Electric which negates shipping charges. Any opinions or recommendations? Thanks.


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## Dave Paine (Feb 12, 2018)

Forum member mksj has a thread on his lathe upgrade to VFD and 3 phase motor.  He used an Hitachi WJ200 VFD.   My local machinist friend followed his lead to convert his G4003G and used the same VFD.   Not sure of the motor.  I am not finding the thread, but if mksj sees this post he will likely link.

I think Brooks Crompton may be a decent brand.

If you are able to replace the motor pulley with a pulley using NEMA frame and shaft diameters, you may save some money with a NEMA 3 phase motor.


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## Splat (Feb 12, 2018)

Thought about going with a 56 or other NEMA frame but I'd need to open up the pulley bore diameter to 24mm and maybe play with the mounting holes on the new motor. Doable, yes.


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## MikeInOr (Feb 12, 2018)

That motor is 46 lbs... with a big heavy cast iron casing I believe.  Are you sure it will fit?

Pardon my comment if you are already familiar with motors... that motor is TEFC (Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled) which is great in that it will keep the swarf, dust, grease and grime out... but it makes it a much bigger motor.  Open frame (exposed windings) motors are generally considerably more compact in the same hp range.  Is your current motor open frame or TEFC?

I believe 56 frame usually has a 5/8" shaft.  24mm is just under an inch. I think you would need a bushing on the shaft.  I had a table saw that came with a bushing between the motor and pulley.   The pulley wobbled because the bushing had wallowed out over time.  I don't like to use bushing between motors and pulleys.  What is the current pulley on the motor like?  If is is just a single or double pulley I would just buy a new pulley with the motor so the shaft size and hole in the pulley match.  H Bushing pulleys are a really nice way to go as they keep the pulley concentric with the shaft very well.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Pulleys/Split-Taper-Bushed-Bore-Pulleys/

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Pulleys/Split-Taper-Bushed-Bore-Pulley-Hubs/

145 Frame usually has a 7/8" shaft, I don't think you could effectively make a bushing that thin for your current pulley.  I think you would have to go up to a 184 frame for a 1 1/8" shaft which would allow you to bore out your current pulley.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/nema-electrical-motor-frame-dimensions-d_1504.html

If you are just planning on running the motor in one direction (forwards) the TECO is fine.  I went with the Hitachi WJ200 VFD because I know it can be programmed to make (near) instant reversing feasible.  I do not know if the TECO's will be feasible for (near) instant reversing.. it very well could be.  If (near) instant reversing isn't important to you I think the TECO would be fine.


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## Silverbullet (Feb 12, 2018)

With the vfd do you need the original pulley. Isn't that a good reason no belt changes . If I can do mine I'm going to a 3" motor pulley or smaller.


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## Splat (Feb 12, 2018)

Thanks Mike, and guys. I gotta measure the pulley diameters. Keep forgetting to do that because work's been crazy this week and going in all different times. That's some good info there, Mike, and once I measure everything it'll give me a better avenue to look at.


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## MikeInOr (Feb 12, 2018)

It looks like the original motor pulley is a single diameter double groove pulley already?
http://cdn0.grizzly.com/partslists/g4003g_pl.pdf

Is the spindle speed changed with gearing in the head?

In the diagram showing the motor the motor does look like a TEFC (pretty distinctive look).  The motor in your original post is very likely a drop in replacement.


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## Splat (Feb 12, 2018)

Yep on the pulley Mike. That's why I was thinking of going with the metric one I posted. Drop in fit. It's way more than I want to spend but I figure buy better and cry once...hopefully.


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## mksj (Feb 13, 2018)

The Brook Crompton is a very good metric motor, probably a bit better built than the other metric motor commonly used for a replacement which is the Leeson metric series. Both are VFD rated. TEFC is the same as most lathe motors, so a reasonable frequency range is 20-80Hz. I would not run the lathe spindle over 2000 RPM because of the splash lubrication. Most likely will need to replace the stock motor pulley if a different size or possibly rebore it, easier to buy a new one. I usually recommend going maybe 15-20% smaller pulley (depends on a number of factors), and then pushing the motor to 90 Hz on the top end, this gives a wider sweet spot for the variable speed. The Teco N3 is a very good VFD, but I have not used this model before. Performance wise I would consider it equivalent to the WJ200. You will need a braking resistor in this application.

Previous old post with a G4003G VFD conversion, one of several. There was an old schematic you may consider using. Let me know if you have any questions.
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/g4003g-going-3-ph-vfd.34549/


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## Splat (Feb 15, 2018)

What a royal PITA this is turning into. Local shop doesn't have the metric Brooks motor in stock so I'd have to pay shipping anyway. I'm wondering if I should just go with a Nema 56 motor and get a similar sized single pulley to my stock one and just use one belt. I'd have to monkey with the motor mount for the 56 frame but should be doable. This is for a 2HP motor though so unsure if this would be wise.


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## mksj (Feb 15, 2018)

You can get the metric Lesson motor, they work fine for this application and less expensive then the BC motor. Manufacturer Part Number: 192205.00 which is a 3 phase 1710 RPM motor. These come with a 24.0mm shaft, so not sure what your pulley size is, but may have to bore one.  You can run a single belt, you do not need dual belts. The alternative is to adapt a US frame motor like the Marathon E467 which is a US 145 frame size and very compact since it is a TENV motor. Follow the links and look at the dimension drawings.
http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/LEESON-192205.html
http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/MARATHON-E467.html


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## Splat (Feb 15, 2018)

Mark, thank you buddy. IIRC the pulley bore should be 24mm but I'll measure it. I'm at work now and getting busy so I'll have to check into things tomorrow. Thanks.


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## Splat (Feb 15, 2018)

I have a few minutes to search while at work.  Looks like a 145T should closely match a 90L. I may have to enlarge the mounting holes in the 145T motor mount and get a single 7/8" bore pulley roughly 2.25" diameter for a 4L Fenner twist type belt.


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## Splat (Feb 17, 2018)

OK. I decided on the Leeson 192205 and Hitachi WJ200-015SF since it seems to be popular. Gonna be a metric drop-in so should be good to go. I'm used to my Teco vfd I have on another machine but I'm sure I can figure most of the features out on the Hitachi. Now the fun begins of figuring wiring. Shouldn't be too bad but the spindle fwd/rev/stop switch on the carriage might be a PITA. Don't know if I need the 24v psu. Off the top of my head I guess if I wanted to use lighted E-stop and power buttons I'd have to. Also, I have to check wiring for the motor. Time to start studying up. I'd like to keep this as simple as possible.


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## Dave Paine (Feb 17, 2018)

The Hitachi WJ200 is a good VFD.   It is worth reading the manual.   FYI, when this unit is powered up, the default is for Hz = 0.    This means if you hit "START" nothing happens.   You need to get to the parameter for Hz and change this for e.g., 30 Hz.

The WJ200 can be programmed from a laptop, which is much faster than going through the keypad.


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## Splat (Feb 17, 2018)

Thanks Dave. Wow, the s/w is available for d/l from Hitachi. Sweet!


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## Splat (Feb 17, 2018)

Weird. Getting an error when extracting the files. I tried multiple d/l from Hitachi's site and keep getting error. Looks like the zip file is corrupted per 7zip. Interesting. I googled the file and found another spot on Hitachi's US site where you have to register to d/l the s/w, which is nowhere said on the first page I found it at. Once you register and d/l it it seems to work fine.


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## Splat (Feb 18, 2018)

Mark (MKSJ), I'm going to use your schematic and parts list for my G4003G. The wiring appears easier than I thought it would be, but you've done the homework first. I thank you wholeheartedly for sharing your efforts and knowledge with everyone. I've started reading the manual this morning and know the basic parameters that need changing but has anyone put together a chart or cheatsheet of settings on the WJ200 that should be changed? Thank you.


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## mksj (Feb 18, 2018)

The WJ200 would need a slightly different schematic, I can put together something as to a schematic and parameters depending on the motor and VFD you end up with. A few WJ200 parameters to change. The WJ200 needs both a JOG command and a JOG direction so requires a second normally open switch block for the JOG switch which connects to the FORWARD input. The VFD terminals are also labeled differently. The WJ200 also needs an external braking resistor for use on the lathe, usually 50-75 ohm, 300-500W.
Mark


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## Splat (Feb 19, 2018)

Ah, I see. Not as simple as I hoped, but that's ok. I ordered the Leeson 192205.00 motor and Hitachi WJ200-015SF drive. I started to rip the contactors and transformer from the G4003G circuit box tonight. Believe it or not I think I'll actually prefer the more straightforward wiring of the VFD! As for the brake, I just ordered this one tonight and I think it'll handle the job. The halogen light on the lathe burnt out months ago so I'm using a seperate 110v LED lamp going to wall outlet. That's it. I'm done for tonight. Got a lot done though. Thanks Mark.


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## Splat (Feb 20, 2018)

Deciding whether to keep this thread going here or in the Grizzly subforum....  I've opted for the Grizzly subforum here since I've decided on the vfd and motor, plus it's G4003G specific. Thanks.


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