# Machining Ability In A Barter Economy



## Luminast (Mar 10, 2015)

I'm not a doomsdayer, but I do think there is a real serious possibility for significant and deep economic collapse in this country, and probably the world.  I'm not certain of it happening, and hope it never happens, but I suspect a significant possibility.  The factors at work are complex, and not the point of my post, but I think Americans are looking at the possibility of a collapse that will reduce the standard of living for the common folks by half or more.  This might mean few jobs, and no money for extravagant food, travel. clothes, or air conditioning, or new machines, or repair parts.

I've always loved the miracle of machine work and wanted to learn it, but it's also partly because of my thought that I should take steps to prepare for the welfare of my family in case of economic disaster that I 've been working to learn machining skills, and accumulate appropriate tooling and supplies in case it gets hard to buy machine parts and things.  Maybe machining ability could have real value in a barter economy to help other people keep their machines running, and to have a skill to trade on. 

I've tried to slowly accumulate plenty of basic machining supplies without spending a ton of money, such as:  extra sets of good drill bits, extra end mills, plenty of HSS blanks for lathe tooling, extra carbide inserts when I can find a bargain on ebay, pieces of steel and aluminum scrap of various sizes.  I haven't tried to set up for simple metal casting - just too many other things to do.

Am I way off in my thinking this way?  Has anyone else on this forum considered this possibility?  If so, do you have any other ideas?  Any suggestions for accumulating related machining stuff in low cost way, or stuff that might be vital?


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## JimDawson (Mar 10, 2015)

There is always the possibility of a catastrophic economic collapse or other disaster and being prepared is a good idea.  I am always looking for bargains on tools and equipment, and buy stuff as it becomes available.  I have been equipping my shop this way for the last 40 years.

Maybe the most important item needed is some form of energy to actually run the machines.  What if the power grid goes down?  Liquid fuels may not be available to run a generator, so an alternative source may be needed.  We may need to look back to the steam age to run our machines.  Having a 5KW inverter sitting on the shelf might be a good idea.  A lot of outside the box thinking is called for in a bad situation.

Also consider that the internet might not be available, so having a good library of how-to books is needed.


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## dave2176 (Mar 11, 2015)

These are good thoughts if and when the day comes. However, if we find ourselves in that position are we prepared for our temporal needs? Do you have  sufficient food to last until you can produce a crop in your yard. Do you have seeds? Do you know how to prepare seeds so they grow next year? How are your fruit and nut trees doing? Do you have two weeks of water, about 55 gallons per person? The biggest question is are you involved in your community? Can you band together for the good of all? Today it seems like we can all pretend we are our own little island. We leave our world to go buy food, fuel, metal, etc but what if those things could no longer support society? We would be dependant on one another. You certainly wouldn't deny food to another just because they are a lawyer and possess no practical skill in that situation although you might be able to part out his Mecedes to construct a wind generator and continue to power machinery, communal meal areas and necessities with it. Anyway, feel free to ignore my ramblings.

Dave


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## jim18655 (Mar 11, 2015)

Making a plan and keeping supplies on hand is good, but be prepared to defend and protect what you have. We all like to think we'll be OK when "it" hits the fan but are you ready to shoot the unprepared neighbor trying to feed his starving children? Helping them at risk of your family suffering? Not sure what I would do. I could hunt on my land and plant a small garden but lack the resources to grow crops on a large scale. Even gasoline for a tractor or tiller would be scarce. I'd need it to run the generator to get water or find a way to dip or pump water from the deep well.


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## Tool-in-the-Box (Mar 11, 2015)

"are you ready to shoot the unprepared neighbor trying to feed his starving children?"

Watch Twilight Zone #68 "the shelter".

Lol, this is a 60's version of what would happen. In today's world the outcome would be more violent IMO.


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## Luminast (Mar 11, 2015)

jim18655 said:


> but are you ready to shoot the unprepared neighbor trying to feed his starving children? Helping them at risk of your family suffering?



I was intending to focus on machining skill in a barter economy, but these are all good points that can be worthy of discussion if interestd.

Am I ready to shoot?  I have the tools, but I am absolutely NOT ready to do that.  I think many of the "preppers" focus way too much on the guns and ammo.  Some of them seem anxious for a gun fight.  There will always be a gang with more guns, ammo, grenades and dynamite.  If that many guns and ammo are needed, it will be pretty hopeless anyway.

In the Great Depression there was terrible economic suffering, starvation and homelessness, but it doesn't seem that there was even as much violence as there is today, except for police and soldiers using deadly force against strike breakers.  The violence might be worse now because of urban population concentration, and because so many Americans now have such a feeling of entitlement, and because suffering is so foreign to many self-indulgent Americans .  But for this and many other reasons, we have chosen to live in a very rural area, with no neighbors in sight.  The neighbors we do have are good friends, and resourceful farmers and ranchers.

There's a ton of detail when it comes to preparedness.  A lot depends on how and what exactly a person chooses to prepare for.  We are self-sufficient in solar power and water, and other ways.  I have a diesel generator that can power my lathe.

We will always share what we have with those in need.  And we are trying to have extra specifically to share with those who would have none - at least as far as we would be able.  A can of Spam and a bowl of beans are worth a fortune to a man with a starving child.  Spam and beans keep a long time on the shelf.

And when governments finally collapse, we can hope that the ET's will set aside their disgust with human squabbling, and come through with some beans and rice., or some nutrition-concentrated space-paste - AND a suitcase-size 20kW power plant for every home that needs no external fuel.

When I was a business executive, my employees would sometimes ask me for investment advice.  I don't know why they would think my advice would be valuable, but some apparently did.  My advice was always that your first investment/savings program should be to buy and store as many of your every day staples as you have room to store.  Toilet paper; soap; extra work clothes; extra shoes and boots; tools; consumables like batteries, etc, water, and food with a long storage life.  But focusing on stuff that your family uses all the time.  There is almost no downside to such a plan, because all of that stuff is probably always going to increase in price at an annual rate greater than bank savings interest rate.  It is protection is case of job-loss or disaster.   I think very few took my advice seriously.  It wasn't what they were hoping to hear.


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## JimDawson (Mar 11, 2015)

Luminast said:


> I was intending to focus on machining skill in a barter economy, but these are all good points that can be worthy of discussion if interestd.



I would say that machining skills are only one tool in the tool box.  To be really valuable, a wide range of skills is needed.

Good problem solving in general is probably the most valuable skill, then the ability to plan and execute a viable solution.  That may include designing and building a machine, repairing a broken something, troubleshooting, and generally being able to do what ever is needed to get the job done no matter what problem is presented.

It has always been my opinion that anyone of average intelligence can learn to do anything if they have a reason, and more importantly, a desire to learn it.  The time to learn is before you need the skill, not when the emergency presents it's self.

.
.


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## jim18655 (Mar 11, 2015)

> In the Great Depression there was terrible economic suffering, starvation and homelessness, but it doesn't seem that there was even as much violence as there is today


I think at that time people were more self sufficient than they are today. The poor people didn't loose as much as the rich. The poor were mostly farmers and even those in town raised chickens which could become a  quick meal. I've talked with lots of older people about the depression and it seems they didn't really notice a big difference. My mother seemed to think WWII rationing might have been worse. Too many today expect a hand-out when things go wrong. I work with a lot of inner-city young adults every day and I'm always amazed at their outlook on right and wrong. Cities will be the first to fall and it will spill into the countryside.

Having valuable skills will certainly pay off. I can see most of us becoming the "village smith" and keep things running.


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## JimDawson (Mar 11, 2015)

To expand on what I said above, I finally found the quote I was looking for.

From "Notebooks of Lazarus Long" in Robert Heinlein's 1973 novel, "Time Enough for Love"
_"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!"_

IMHO, words to live by.


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## FOMOGO (Mar 11, 2015)

That was a great book. I like to be as positive as possible. Life is short, and I try to keep my mind on the good stuff. They say you create your own reality, maybe so. Skills and a positive attitude will serve you well in most situations. Mike


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## Bill Gruby (Mar 11, 2015)

When you are most vulnerable the end always seems nearer.


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## rgray (Mar 12, 2015)

Good timing on the post....the new Mad Max film is coming out soon.


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## jumps4 (Mar 12, 2015)

Not talking about how the situation came about but what to do if it did.
I have pondered ideas of how I would power my equipment in the event of no electricity event.
solar seems expensive for the amount of electricity needed and small engines would need a source of fuel.
I wonder if a efficient steam powered generator is practical and what type of steam engine would work the best.
steam takes more prep time but the fuel is easier to come by.
Steve


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## great white (Mar 12, 2015)

jumps4 said:


> Not talking about how the situation came about but what to do if it did.
> I have pondered ideas of how I would power my equipment in the event of no electricity event.
> solar seems expensive for the amount of electricity needed and small engines would need a source of fuel.
> I wonder if a efficient steam powered generator is practical and what type of steam engine would work the best.
> ...



Steam? Nah.

Waterwheel....


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## lowlife (Apr 1, 2015)

Funny you should ask? I have spent the last several years of my life being "paranoid and delusional" as my friends would say. "Being prepared" is what I call it.

Hands down Knowledge is king< useful knowledge and the ability to works with your hands. It is a rare commodity today. And get the hell out of the metro areas! (no offense intended to people in the metro areas)


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## itsme_Bernie (Apr 2, 2015)

jim18655 said:


> Making a plan and keeping supplies on hand is good, but be prepared to defend and protect what you have. We all like to think we'll be OK when "it" hits the fan but are you ready to shoot the unprepared neighbor trying to feed his starving children? Helping them at risk of your family suffering? Not sure what I would do. I could hunt on my land and plant a small garden but lack the resources to grow crops on a large scale. Even gasoline for a tractor or tiller would be scarce. I'd need it to run the generator to get water or find a way to dip or pump water from the deep well.


Fantastic first episode of "Connections, with James Burke"...  Anyone remember this show?   Incredible series.  I purchased the DVD set!

Bernie


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## atunguyd (Apr 2, 2015)

That was a great series. Fascinating how one thing lead to another. Also very nicely presented by Burke.


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## rdean (Apr 2, 2015)

I remember recording them on Beta Max tapes.  That was a long time ago I will have to look for them on DVD.

Ray


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## brav65 (Apr 2, 2015)

Having grown up on a farm and being forced to use ingenuity on a regular basis as well as learning to do without are the best training I think any person could have.  As mentioned above mechanical/machinist knowledge would be one of the many tools/skill that would be useful as well.  Look at what happened in New Orleans where people were shooting at police in broad daylight after three days to guess how things might go if a catastrophe hit the whole country.  

I am not what I would consider a prepper, but I certainly keep a supply of non perishable food and water on hand for my family.  I also consider the security of my family and have plans in place.  I live in an urban environment and would not stay here, but move to a very unpopulated area if the situation persisted.  Just my two cents on the situation.


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## Ulma Doctor (Apr 2, 2015)

when the calamity happens,  
i worry for those who don't know how to survive without modern conveniences. 

you will really see the ingenuity of our citizens- some for good ,some for not. 

thought should be given to energy sources to power the machines and methods of obtaining food and water.
i have taken a good look at wood gas generators and would construct many models in the event of fuel shortages .
i would also heavily consider the use of inverters to maximize power utilization.
i would be ready to protect my family and property to whatever end would be necessary.
i would definitely work with like minded people to survive the ordeal


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