# Thinking on buying a PM 1340GT



## MattM (Feb 12, 2019)

I sold my Clausing/Colchester at an obscene profit and am looking to replace it.  What's the word on the PM 1340 GT?


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## kb58 (Feb 12, 2019)

What do you think you'll hear when asking in the Church of PM?

To get truly objective input means going to as many home machinist sites to read what everyone's recommending. Going to any brand-specific forum _highly _biases what you'll hear.


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## mikey (Feb 12, 2019)

I'm not sure I agree with this, KB58. From what I've seen from the *experienced* PM lathe owners here, they tend to be quite honest about the shortcomings of their lathes. I'm not talking about a new guy with a few months under his belt; I'm talking about an experienced lathe operator with enough time at the lathe so they know the significance of a defect when they see it.

The reality is that you do not know a lathe until you've lived with it for some time. Once you do and know that something is not up to par, there is no benefit to hiding those shortcomings. On the contrary, the stuff I've seen tends to be nitpicky and they point out every single thing they find to be substandard. 

When I look into buying a machine, I want to hear from actual users. I agree that you should find these opinions wherever you find them but there is a concentration of PM owners here and it is simple enough to PM them if you need more info. I feel the majority of the PM owners here will have the integrity to be honest, especially when a fellow member is contemplating a major purchase. 

Another benefit is that Matt, the owner of PM, also posts here and addresses issues as they arise; that is a major plus in my book.

I do not own a PM machine but I am a long-time HM member (yes, I am biased towards this site) and if I wanted to know about a machine, I would actually trust the guys here before I would trust some guys I don't know at another site.


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## wrmiller (Feb 12, 2019)

Not sure how I should reply to this, or if it is even worth my time. I'll bet my lunch money that kb58 has no clue about PM machines, but he's already decided what people own them are like. I think you wasted your time Mikey.


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## mikey (Feb 12, 2019)

wrmiller said:


> Not sure how I should reply to this, or if it is even worth my time. I'll bet my lunch money that kb58 has no clue about PM machines, but he's already decided what people own them are like. I think you wasted your time Mikey.



kb58 just got a new PM mill but I'm not sure which lathe he owns. 

@kb58, I'm not getting on your case. Just wanted to express the opinion that I think the guys here will tell you straight up if there is a problem with their PM machines. I own an Emco Super 11 CD lathe and while I think it is a vastly superior product compared to an Asian lathe, it isn't perfect either. I have over 30 years on a lathe and over 5 years on this Emco lathe and know every single shortcoming it has, and I'll tell you if you ask.


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## kb58 (Feb 12, 2019)

Hope you eat lunch at expensive places!

Anyway, fair enough, seems that makes two of us making groundless assertions.


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## MattM (Feb 12, 2019)

There is a hole in my heart and my shop.  The Clausing just went down the drive.  It was/is a good machine.. it went to a friend who will appreciate it.

Now there is a stack of C-notes burning a hole in my pocket.

I noticed a few people said low speed was too high for comfortable threading.  Not a problem as I do most of my threading on my 10EE.


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## wrmiller (Feb 12, 2019)

kb58 said:


> Hope you eat lunch at expensive places!
> 
> Anyway, fair enough, seems that makes two of us making groundless assertions.



It wasn't much of a bet, as I had to retire early and I'm poor now. McDonalds OK? 

And my apologies for my assumptions. But I'm curious as to why you think PM owners are only going to go on about how great they are? I'm sure there are True Believers out there regarding the PMs. There sure are a bunch of them in the SB or the 'made in USA' camps, but the PM owners I know/have talked to are not like that. Could just be my experiences though.

Just curious.


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## wrmiller (Feb 12, 2019)

MattM: I have a early 1340GT. Overall I am pleased with the lathe. Mine is a 3ph with a VFD on it. But there are some things I didn't like.

The sheetmetal stands on the early models are pretty flimsy, but I hear the newer ones are better. Last I heard, Matt won't sell the new stands separately to those wanting one, but that may have changed now. The spindle hole in the geartrain cover is not centered on the spindle bore. It's a minor thing that I will get to one of these days. The oiling system for the Norton gearbox is not that great. Some folks have modified theirs and some even put a one-shot oil system on it. It's on my list. Some chips in the paint in various places, but I expect those.

I set up the late two years ago when I moved here. I check it periodically for alignment. Last time I checked about 6 months ago, I was out abut 3 tenths over a 10" span. Good enough for what I do. As for threading, I can't speak much to that as most threading I do is finer pitch (last was 40 tpi) and I actually have to speed up the lathe as I get bored waiting for the cut to finish. I also get a better finish with a little higher rpm. About 150-200 is what I use.


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## Janderso (Feb 12, 2019)

I was going to buy a PM 1340GT, then I found my Clausing Colchester 15.
I love it.
From what I read in this forum, the PM 1340GT is a very good lathe.


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## parshal (Feb 12, 2019)

I have a 1340GT in the shop waiting for power.  It's replacing a South Bend 10K.  All appearances so far are great with the exception of the paint.  If I look at it funny it chips.


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## GL (Feb 12, 2019)

I bought my 1340GT last summer.  Huge step up from my Craftsman 12x36 in terms of stiffness. My guess is stiffness is less than the Colchester.  The threading fast, along with the odd threading dial is kind of a pain- going to figure out how to thread upside down and away from the chuck to counter this to reduce the pucker factor and enjoy the higher speed finish.  It is nice to dial in a number and hit it.  The base has issues-I put a 3/8 plate and ribs inside the headstock end to get rid of the wobble created by the crown of the top plate.  This could be eliminated by a difference build sequence, or build your own (see David Best thread).  I went 3 phase and would do it again, original plan was to go VFD, but using RFC for now.  Kind of wish I had gone to the 1440 GT for the additional weight and the enclosed gearbox but that depends on how obscene that stack of hundreds is.  The no actual neutral kind of is a pain, but I'm getting over it.  It is smooth, but should get better with use.  The numbers on the gearbox not aligning with the pins is a thing, but I can count holes. I'm happy but not ecstatic, but it does make round things that you ask of it.


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## Chipper5783 (Feb 12, 2019)

Getting a 1340 as a companion to  10EE ?  Certainly 2 lathes are better than one and a 13x40 gives a little more swing/gap/spindle hole/center distance and it maybe just that little bit more that makes all the difference.  Do you have a hard space constraint?  Even if you went with a 15 or 16 x 60 it doesn't take up much more space, is still not heavy & cumbersome and provides significant additional working room.


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## MattM (Feb 12, 2019)

Doesn't everyone, all the time have "space constraints".  Who is it among us who has too much shop space?  Seriously though I can easily accommodate any lathe up to ten feet or so overall.  And if I could just convince The Wife to park her new car outside I'd be phat.

The Monarch is lonely...

Now I'm looking at 1440's.  Any input on that?


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## Chipper5783 (Feb 13, 2019)

I 100% agree, the Monarch is probably lonely.  I'm going to guess that taking good care of your wife's new car will go further than that "stack of C-notes" towards another lathe?  What hard constraints do you have - power, stairs, a must do lathe job, . . . .  Can you wait until another opportunity (like that Clausing/Colchester) shows up?

My small lathe is an 11x24 Smart & Brown - a very nice machine.  My larger lathe is a 15x50 Colchester knock off (Enterprise) - also a nice enough machine.  I find I use the Enterprise most of the time, even if the S&B would do the job just fine.  The Enterprise is tooled a bit better, I like the foot switch/brake, the controls are a bit taller so I don't stoop and all the tooling is still light enough to handle (8" 3J, 10" 4J).

Obviously you will figure out your needs / wants.  My #1 rationale for purchasing a machine is availability.  If I think it is a good opportunity for me - I'll buy it.  Whether it is somesort of a "perfect fit" is still a consideration, but since I'm buying at the bottom of the food chain the only choice I get is to take it or leave it.  I've walked away from many opportunities, but I have also hauled some pretty nice pieces home.  I bought the 15x60 about 35 years ago (first lathe).  It took 3 years of looking until I found a nice "small" lathe (which is the 11x24 S&B) - that was 4 years ago.  There are a few times I've wanted (needed?) a little bigger lathe - perhaps one day that suitable opportunity for a larger lathe will come my way? IMO a 16x60 would be a better companion for my shop and the 11x24 would get used more.  In the mean time, several other machine opportunities have come my way - so I am quite happy playing with old (actually not even very old) iron.  Hey, perhaps I can now step up to a 20x40ish? - I very rarely use the last couple feet of my existing lathe bed, but a larger spindle hole and bigger swing would be real nice.

It may be that if you went with a 13 or 14x40, you'd find that most of your jobs would still be done on only one of your lathes (the old 10EE or the new 13/14) since they are close in size - you would use the one which you were most comfortable with.  If you opened up the spread there would be a technical reason in more cases to choose one over the other.

Let us know how you make out.  David


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## davidpbest (Feb 13, 2019)

I have had a PM1340 for just over two years now.   It replaced a very fine but old Swiss Emco V10-P.







I approach these machines made in Asia with a totally different mindset from many or even most.   I'm sure they function quite well out of the box, but I'm also sure there were a number of compromises made to contain cost that could be improved upon after acquiring the machine.   So I approached getting the PM1340 with a view that it was going to be a project - a kit if you will - that would need enhancement for perform to my very high (excessive?) level of standards and also have esthetic qualities I could take pride in.   Some people have said I turned a sows ear into a silk purse.   Fine.

The basic machine a very solid.   And I've been into every aspect and every component when I completely dismantled the lathe to strip it of the marginal paint job and put on a quality paint job that will stand up in an industrial environment and not chip of you drop your finglernail file on it.   The guts of the machine are certainly well made and adequate for the size and horsepower of the machine.   I found no issues with the headstock, the spindle, the lead- and threading screws, apron, cross-slide or tailstock.   The spindle was slightly out of line, but quickly dialed in if you know what you're doing.    The feed and threading gearbox is a Norton style with open bottom that needs oil and the oil drips out into the drip tray.   If you don't mind that style gearbox, this one is solid, but the oil distribution method that comes with the machine is marginal IMO.   I had a problem with the leadscrew binding and the clutch slipping which turned out to be a bushing lubrication problem and received parts in short order to replace the bushing.    The dial distance rings on the compound and cross slide were clearly for a different model, but that was rectified with quick ship of new parts.   Matt at Precision Matthews has been very supportive and responsive when I've asked.    

Overall, I am very happy with my PM1340, but I have done extensive customization of it to bring it to higher levels of performance and ease of use.   In addition to striping it down and repainting the machine, I upgraded all the fasteners to higher quality, provisioned it for easy toolless oil changing of the headstock.   I replaced the factory motor with a Baldor vector motor, with new pulleys and belt, and installed all new electronic controls including a VFD, proximity stop, coolant control, an jog joystick.   I installed a magnetic scale DRO on the cross slide and carriage, and provisioned it for Fogbuster MQL coolant.   I completely threw out the oil system for the Norton gearbox and made my own multi-point drip one-shot system for that aspect.   Designed an build a custom Mitutoyo DRO on the tailstock, replaced all the handles with custom knurled stainless handles, added a tachometer and a spider to the spindle.   I replaced the rubber bed wipers with felt versions, and made my own Set-True ER40 collet chuck.   I also made a solid tool post mount that can swap out with the compound to get much better rigidity.   And I made my own Torsion-beam based stand.    Mark Jacobs did the controls and I will be forever grateful for his effort.






The full build log is here:   https://flic.kr/s/aHskYxDKzN

There is also a long earlier thread on this build here on H-M you can find here:   https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pm1340-the-best-jacobs-full-custom-edition.58507/

For my needs, this machine performs very well and I get very aggressive machining 316 stainless steel at times.   I am really glad to have the VFD and the additional torque of the vector motor at slow speeds, and the proximity stop takes all the pucker factor out of threading up to a shoulder.


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## 7milesup (Feb 13, 2019)

The reality is we all (most of us anyway) have money constraints.  If money were no object, then space constraints wouldn't be an issue either.


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## parshal (Feb 13, 2019)

7milesup said:


> The reality is we all (most of us anyway) have money constraints.  If money were no object, then space constraints wouldn't be an issue either.



Ha, no truer statement has ever been made!


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## 7milesup (Feb 13, 2019)

Matt M:  I have a PM1022 lathe.  Not in the same league as you but it is Chinese and "ok" at best.  I also bought a PM833T mill and being made in Tiawan the fit and finish is noticeably better.

If I were you, I would look at the 1440.  Matt from Precision Matthews has superb customer service, which is certainly worth something when dealing with machinery.  My next lathe will either be the 1340GT or 1440GT.  
Also, I recently discovered Eisen Machinery which has Tiwain made machines.  I am trying to compare them and PM but it is laborious getting an accurate comparison.  I have read good things about Eisen too. Of the 1440's I was trying to compare, it seemed that Eisen was a good deal cheaper, but cannot confirm that all specs are apples to apples.  Not much help I know but...


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## COMachinist (Feb 13, 2019)

Well I’ll say this, Eisen lathes are the exact same OEM equitment as Matt’s machines, at a a higher price. I can tell you that Eisen will not give the personal service that Matt will.  I have a PM-932 PDF and a 12x36t which is made in Taiwan, the mill had motor failure which was not Matts fault, but he stepped up and gave me a great deal on a 3 phase 2 hp motor, and now my PM 932 is a vfd controled 3 ph versatile machine. Besides Eisen don’t support these forums like Matt does. I am  99 44/100% satisfied with my PM machines. I have a Grizzly G0704 that is converted to CNC, witch had a ton of problems, and the clausing 100 mk3 that isn’t used much any more because Timken decided to not make the lathe tapered bearings any more. I love that old WWII heavy iron machine. I just didn’t feel like putting 5k into a restored 75 year old machine.  I’m a hobbist home machinist. I can do any thing I need for my hobby and my other hobbies they support. If your in business, you don’t need theses light bench machines. So yea I support Matt.
Thanks.
CH


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## diamond (Feb 13, 2019)

Matt M:  I bought a PM 1340GT last July.  With the "upgraded" package and several post purchase upgrades.   I have no problem being objective about it.

I bought mine specifically for gunsmithing work.   I use it for other stuff but chambering barrels was the main use case.

Off the top I would say it sits somewhere between the "green" and other mainland machines and some higher end Taiwanese machines like Sharp etc.   The price is right in the middle too.  I have gunsmithing buddies, some professional and some hobbyists like me who own both of those ends of that spectrum.   

David Best's machine is a work of art.   I didn't go that far but I did add a custom VFD control board equipped with a micrometer proximity stop that is a HUGE improvement.  Check out Mark Jacobs here on this forum and if he is still doing it I highly recommend it.   You can see one on David's machine.   With the VFD I leave the belt in high range and even with the stock motor I can dial it down to 70rpm for doing parting or drilling without the motor seeming to complain at all.   I am very happy with this setup and I think it puts the whole machine into another class.  Threading is an absolute joy with the proximity stop.

I went with the Easson DRO and had PM install it.   This is where my first gripe is.   They didn't check the clearance on the Y sensor bracket and the bracket rubs the casting near the head and tail stock.  Have to take off and grind the bracket down.  Otherwise the install is fine.   The Eason DRO itself is very nice.  Really like the display.   I just bought PMs lower end DRO to install on my BP mill but it's not up and running yet.  I may post a comparison at some point between the two if the Easson is worth the money.   I can say it has been rock solid.

Next gripe is the quality of the "precision" 4-jaw chuck.   I'm not thrilled with it.  I know 4-jaw chucks are prone to vibration but this thing shakes the machine more than I think it should.  It's not very smooth to adjust either even though I totally broke it down and cleaned out all the shipping goo.  Wish I'd just forked out the $ for a Bison if I was going to upgrade. Sure it would have been 3 times the cost but now I'm considering buying it anyway and I'll be out the money I paid.

Speaking of vibration the base is the next gripe.   Is it horrible?  No.  But I wish the base was cast iron.  I like the base David built too.  I am sure either a cast base or something like that would help with some of the vibration I see from time to time with that chuck or when I'm doing a muzzle brake job and I've got the receiver end in the spider off center.   To be fair I haven't seen it be an issue with my finishes or holding a cut.   The machine does very well.  But when you see the DRO and the lamp shaking around at certain resonances it's annoying.   The good thing is a touch of the speed on the VFD can often dampen that out.   At the end of the day this isn't a massive machine, I think it weighs about 1300 with the base?  This is why my professional gunsmith buddy is better off with his Sharp.  Very similar machines in many regards but his is much heavier.  Since he is in it for production he needs to run harder and faster.   So expectations need to be adjusted accordingly.   I am fairly cautious with my DOC.   I don't go at things real aggressive and tend to go a bit slower.   That may be more a factor of me than the machine though.

The last gripe is the open gear box.  It is a big pain in the butt to oil.   Now this is a factor of any open gear box design.   So not fair to put on PM or any manufacturer.  However I bet there could have been a better design put into the oiling system.  The way it comes from the factory is a terrible design IMO.  I very much like what David did for his by replacing that crappy plate that sits above the gears and probably will do something just like it now that my mill is up and running.

The belt that comes with it is junk.  Not sure why they are still shipping with it.  Upgrade to the Gates.  

But gripes aside I would say this is a very nice machine and I'm glad I stepped up from the mainland machines and got it.  I was on the fence for that and would say I landed on the right side.  Am I biased because I own it?  That's a fair question.  Maybe a little.  But I'd say most of what I'm griping about is minor stuff and rectifiable while the main points of the machine are good.   The spindle is true to spec, I'm able to dial the machine in to hold very good tolerances and it runs and cuts well.  So far the barrels I'm chambering are shooting like lasers.  So I'm happy.  Like any machine you will want to add things to fit your preferences like making a cross slide stop since the factory one is covered by the DRO scale.   Get a QC-TP!   There are a lot of PM owners here and plenty of posts on this forum about customizations.  Haven't really engaged PM service for anything but I read they're good.   

Hope that's fair and objective feedback.


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## jbolt (Feb 13, 2019)

7milesup said:


> Matt M:  I have a PM1022 lathe.  Not in the same league as you but it is Chinese and "ok" at best.  I also bought a PM833T mill and being made in Tiawan the fit and finish is noticeably better.
> 
> If I were you, I would look at the 1440.  Matt from Precision Matthews has superb customer service, which is certainly worth something when dealing with machinery.  My next lathe will either be the 1340GT or 1440GT.
> Also, I recently discovered Eisen Machinery which has Tiwain made machines.  I am trying to compare them and PM but it is laborious getting an accurate comparison.  I have read good things about Eisen too. Of the 1440's I was trying to compare, it seemed that Eisen was a good deal cheaper, but cannot confirm that all specs are apples to apples.  Not much help I know but...



The PM-1440gt (and I believe the 1340gt) are made in the same factory as Eisen. The PM-1440gt head was designed and built specifically for Precision Mathews and is unique in that regard with the D1-5 spindle and 2" spindle bore. The gearbox, bed, carriage and tail stock are common to some of the Eisen lathes.


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## 7milesup (Feb 13, 2019)

Thank you to COMachinist and Jbolt.   
I don't know if Matt M is learning anything but I sure am.


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## MattM (Feb 13, 2019)

I sure am learning a lot.  OK, now here is a curve ball:









						LeBlond metal lathe
					

Completely rebuilt LeBlond Lathe. Fifty six inches (56") between centers. Five hp motor. Three and four jaw chucks and tail stock chuck. Live center. Built in the USA. Lots of extras. Call for more...



					medford.craigslist.org
				




I looked at this machine the other day It is almost as advertised.  The ways have been ground and scraped.  A beautiful job was done.  The backlash in the controls is as close to non-existent as can be.  The general appearance seems to "as new".  However upon inside inspection I noted that the belts had not been replaced and it did not look like it had been disassembled.  This indicates to me the machine had not been "completely rebuilt".  I asked the owner about this and he said, "They must have done something for $12,763.67 which is what he said they charged.   He  did not have any invoices or record of work done. 

$11,000.00 seems a little high, but looking at the Taiwan machines it is not that much higher.  I won't pay 11k but if I could get it somewhere around 7or8 I might bite.


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## jbolt (Feb 13, 2019)

Used machines are a crap shoot, at least in my area. I have helped a number of people look at used lathes. I always bring a TDI on a mag base and a precision ground test bar. Have run into a few reconditioned machines that looked good but had badly worn ways. If I can't put power to it and see it run I'll pass.

As to 1440's

I've had my PM-1440GT for a few years now with well over a thousand hours on it. Over all I am very pleased with the lathe as it fits my current needs. The cost for the basic package has increased $1500 since that time which makes it a little tougher to justify over the 1340gt. Looking at the current prices for other lathes I was considering at the time the costs for those have gone up similarly.

The real selling points for me over the 1340gt were the D1-5 spindle (huge step up from the D1-4), 2" spindle bore (wouldn't buy another lathe with less than), pull-out chip pan and foot brake (must have).

Other things I like:

12 speed gear box with a good range of speeds

Easy lathe to true and keep true.

Precision spindle bearings exceed published specifications

Bed casting is high quality

4" travel on the tail stock

Back chip shield is well made and of heavier gauge steel. Has no problem supporting the weight of my CXA tool holders



The things I don't like:

The access for the coolant pump is stupid.  I moved it outside of the base where it is easily accessible.

The base is short for me (6'1"). I built a 6" riser to get it high enough to be comfortable to use.

Steady rest capacity of only 2". I have since built a second steady that will take up to 8"

The chip tray only pulls out 1/3 of the way before hitting the drain outlet. At some point I will relocate the drain outlet and put the tray on full extension slides.

Factory belts are crap. I replaced those with Gates belts when I did the 3-phase motor / VFD conversion.

Compound rest mounting is lighter duty than it should be. I have replaced the compound with a solid riser. I only use the compound now for short tapers that I cannot do with ground HSS tools.

Of minor annoyance is the need for change gears for metric threading. Most common metric threads can be done with one change gear and it only takes a few minutes to swap.


I cannot comment on the factory motor or electronics since I changed all of that with the motor/vfd conversion.


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## mksj (Feb 13, 2019)

MattM said:


> I sure am learning a lot.  OK, now here is a curve ball:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am unsure what the curve ball is, you have not indicated the parameters/type of work you will be doing and price range. Looks like a screw on chuck, what threads can it cut (i.e. do you need metric), no foot brake, how are you going to power the 5 Hp motor assuming it is 3 phase.....  As JBOLT outlined it is a crap shoot buying used machines unless you know specifically what you want, why you want it and are able to thoroughly evaluate the condition.  Otherwise you are probably buying a boat anchor.

If you are in the 7 to 8K range than the 1440GT would be my recommendation, primarily because of  it capabilities, design and features like a 2" spindle. If you want to go bigger and heavier than you might look at the Eisen 1440GE or if you want a factory VFD then the 1440EV, but note that these both have D1-4 1.5" bore spindles, you want to step it up a notch in weight and rigidity, then start looking at the ERL/TRL-1340 lathes and the RML-1440/1640. These  are offered by a number of different vendors (like Kent, Acra and QMT).  I have worked with numerous individuals with different lathes from many manufactures,  have owner the 1340GT and currently an ERL-1340. A full time gunsmith purchased my 1340GT and loves the lathe. In the fit and finish department it is a big step up from the comparable mainland China machines, it is a feather weight in that it is around 1000lbs and is not the last word on rigidity. But it has a very nice working envelope and will hold finished tolerances under 0.001" with ease, It was always a pleasure to use, I have no regrets and would have kept mine had I not moved.  Go to other forums and you will find similar positive comments on the 1340GT, it is built to a price point so don't expect the moon. The comments are all the same. There is a wealth of information as to tricking it out to whatever degree you heart desires. Some go all out, others KISS.


			You are being redirected...
		


On the 1340GT my comments are similar to others, but I accepted certain limitations of the machine because it wasn't 2000+lbs. My primary issues were lack of a foot brake (which can be mitigated by using a VFD with a braking resistor), mine had vibration node (which was chuck specific, I did not have it with lighter chucks) which is minor at around 650 RPM (W/O a VFD you probably wouldn't detect it), because it is a "light" machine it is a bit more susceptible to chuck imbalance, you are limited with rapid material removal say DOC > 0.1" due to rigidity. The earlier bases flexed, the newer oners are much more solid and have 6 leveling feet. The Norton gearbox is what it is, you get a wide range of  gears with no change gears, it is messy and the oiler system requires a lot of oil to get to all the gears unless you put in a pump oiler. It is the same design used on the Eisen 1236, Grizzly G400X series and countless other lathes through the decades. It is a proven design, and really I see no incentive for manufactures to invest in new manual lathe designs with such a small market. I expect the same deign to be around for many years.

So there are several distributors of lathe in the US, but say you are in the budget range of 5-10K it significantly narrows the machines and options. Basically Grizzly (of which none are made in Taiwan at this price point, but there is the G4003G and G0709), QMT/PM (1236GT, PM-1440GS, 1340GT, 1440GT) and EIsen (1236, 1440E, 1440GE). Everything else (new) you will probably regret buying.  Start looking at features, many of the Eisen and QMT lathes are from the same manufacture, but some like the 1440GT have added features/options. You are also buying a package deal, post purchase support and a warranty duration/long term parts support.  Saving a few dollars at this price range is meaningless if you do not have post purchase support/parts.

Sorry, but as you mentioned yourself you sold your "Clausing/Colchester at an obscene profit", good used iron is becoming increasingly scarce and there are new machines lathes that  yield similar finished tolerances, the limitation being the user. If you want a used machined that is truly in pristine condition, expect to pay a boatload for it, and prey that if something breaks you can get a replacement part at any price.


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## Praeger (Feb 14, 2019)

7milesup said:


> The reality is we all (most of us anyway) have money constraints.  If money were no object, then space constraints wouldn't be an issue either.


Well said!


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## darbikrash (Feb 16, 2019)

For another data point I just took delivery last week of a new Eisen 1440K. As far as I can tell, this is identical to the PM 1440HD lathe. The specs show the spindle through diameter is 1.5" on the Eisen, mine measured 1.570" so I think it's comparable to the larger rated (1 9/16") PM spindle bore. It would appear the PM has a better DRO, the Eisen uses a "Sino" brand DRO.

This is a very heavy machine for this class/price point, around 2500#'s. I visited the importer here in CA, and ran several versions of the Eisen 1440, the EV as well as the standard model. I was disappointed by both. Walking around the warehouse, I noticed a number of nice looking "Clark" brand1440K lathes new in crates. When I inquired, I was told these were mainland Chinese lathes as opposed to the Eisen which was Taiwan. I asked that one of the "Clark" lathes be uncrated and powered up, which they did. The difference was night and day to the Taiwan Eisens- this was a really nice lathe and I bought it on the spot. 







The importer included the lathe, various chucks, DRO, delivery and set up inside my shop in the purchase price. Not just delivery mind you, but installing it inside my shop.

But what about the Eisen that I took delivery of? Well what showed up was the exact same lathe except that the "Clark" badge had been replaced by an Eisen badge. I had recored the lathe serial number that I ran at the shop and it was the same machine.

Further investigation revealed that this machine has been in production for decades under different names, and is still sold under different names. The claim that this is a Chinese lathe is really not the whole story, I found out that while the large castings are from mainland China, the rest of the machine is sourced and assembled in Taiwan. Inside the electrical panel all the electronics gear is Siemens. The overall feel of the levers and controls is really nice- far superior to the lighter duty 1440's, and at least one source claims the spindle bearings are Timken.

Feel really lucky to find this jewel of a lathe, I went out there to buy a different 1440. What I learned from this is that you can't rely too much on spec sheets, no substitute for actually seeing and running the lathe.


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## ddickey (Feb 16, 2019)

Any particular reason you went w/the Eisen over the PM?


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## 7milesup (Feb 16, 2019)

Well, this is interesting.  
So IF the PM 1440HD is the same lathe as this, the price difference is $948 between these two for Darbikrash.  He had mention for the purchase price they delivered AND set up the lathe in his shop.  Can't beat that with a stick.  For the rest of us, assuming a $500 freight charge, the Eisen is $448 cheaper than PM, but until one looks at ALL of the specs (lead screw size and pitch, warranty, etc) it will be hard to say which one is a better deal.  We all know that Matt's customer service is outstanding.


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## darbikrash (Feb 16, 2019)

Here is the machine delivered and setup, now its an Eisen! The cost difference was the driver, and the fact that it was setup and running in my shop 3 days after I first saw and trialed it.

They included setup and delivery as I had mentioned for no extra charge. As far as I can tell, there is no difference between the machines (Clark, Eisen, PM 1440 HD) other than the somewhat better DRO on the PM. 

I ordered a 5C collet chuck, a 6 jaw, and a quick change post and I am making chips. Regardless of the badge on the machine, for my use anyway, this is the best bang for the buck in the 1440 lathes.


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## johnnyc14 (Feb 16, 2019)

Just to add another view, i have been looking at the PM1440HD for a couple of years and waiting for the Canadian dollar to get stronger. I ran out of patience recently and decided to bite the bullet and buy a machine from Modern Tool, a very reputable machinery distributor in Canada. It is very similar looking to the PM1440HD, the model number is GH1440W. Jet also sells this machine with the same model number.  I was able to run the machine at Modern's showroom and compare is to to their C0636 which appears to be very similar to the PM1440LB. The C0636 has a 2" spindle bore and D1-5 spindle and the GW1440 has 1-9/16" and D1-4 but the GH is about 1000 pounds heavier and has a higher quality look and feel. Comparing prices to the PM1440HD, after converting US dollars to Canadian and adding shipping, the GH actually wound up being a few hundred dollar less and Modern will deliver it to my shop. It comes standard with  DRO and taper attachment. Here pics of the GH1440W and the C0636.








I purchased a milling machine from Matt a few years ago when our dollar was stronger and was very pleased with the level of service I received  but in this economy it was cheaper and easier to buy locally. I will be taking delivery in a couple of weeks.


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## MattM (Feb 16, 2019)

Thanks for all the good info. 

After careful consideration I decided to go with American iron and purchased the LeBlond for a lot less than the 11k asking price.  What I got is essentially a new machine.  The ways and slides have all been ground and scraped.  There is next to no backlash in any of the controls.  I took off the headstock cover and inspected the gears.  They were absolutely pristine, the oil was clear as gin and I could see no detritus in the bottom of the box.   I ran it and it seemed quite and solid.

The owner said the lathe had not been used since the rebuild.  I tend to believe him because I  saw no sign of chips or swarf anywhere on or even near the machine.

My research indicates that Leblond lathes enjoy a fine reputation and parts are available.


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## ddickey (Feb 16, 2019)

Did he give a reason why he never used it after having it rebuilt?


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## MattM (Feb 16, 2019)

Health reasons.


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## 7milesup (Feb 16, 2019)

johnnyc14 said:


> Just to add another view, i have been looking at the PM1440HD for a couple of years and waiting for the Canadian dollar to get stronger. I ran out of patience recently and decided to bite the bullet and buy a machine from Modern Tool, a very reputable machinery distributor in Canada. It is very similar looking to the PM1440HD, the model number is GH1440W. Jet also sells this machine with the same model number.  I was able to run the machine at Modern's showroom and compare is to to their C0636 which appears to be very similar to the PM1440LB. The C0636 has a 2" spindle bore and D1-5 spindle and the GW1440 has 1-9/16" and D1-4 but the GH is about 1000 pounds heavier and has a higher quality look and feel. Comparing prices to the PM1440HD, after converting US dollars to Canadian and adding shipping, the GH actually wound up being a few hundred dollar less and Modern will deliver it to my shop. It comes standard with  DRO and taper attachment. Here pics of the GH1440W and the C0636.
> 
> View attachment 287918
> View attachment 287919
> ...



Can I ask what you paid for that? In Canadian $$


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## johnnyc14 (Feb 16, 2019)

7milesup said:


> Can I ask what you paid for that? In Canadian $$


Pm sent


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## MattM (Feb 16, 2019)

Didn't get it.


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## johnnyc14 (Feb 16, 2019)

MattM said:


> Thanks for all the good info.
> 
> After careful consideration I decided to go with American iron and purchased the LeBlond for a lot less than the 11k asking price.  What I got is essentially a new machine.  The ways and slides have all been ground and scraped.  There is next to no backlash in any of the controls.  I took off the headstock cover and inspected the gears.  They were absolutely pristine, the oil was clear as gin and I could see no detritus in the bottom of the box.   I ran it and it seemed quite and solid.
> 
> ...


I would enjoy seeing pictures of your 
LeBlond Matt.


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## MattM (Feb 17, 2019)

I think the CL posting is on here somewhere.  When the lathe is delivered sometime next week I'll post pictures.  I'm having a friend who has an auto towing company deliver it.  He has delivered many machines for me in the past.

Tomorrow I'll start re-arranging the shop to accommodate it.  It will require about three more  longitudinal  feet than the Clausing but will be in the same space.  Like the Clausing it will face the Monarch.

What's the exchange rate now?  Havevn't been to Canada in years.


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## MattM (Feb 18, 2019)

johnnyc14 said:


> I would enjoy seeing pictures of your
> LeBlond Matt.



Didn't get your PM.


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## INTJ (Feb 20, 2019)

I guess I am the lucky one with my 1340.  No paint issues, easily aligned the headstock to less than .0003, runs smooth an quiet with the vfd three phase and Dr Mark’s controls.  I can dial in a barrel to zero runout with the 4-jaw and my first chambering job for a foreforming barrel in a 1000 yd BR rifle yeilded a chamber virtually identical to the one my competition gunsmith friend built.  All that and I am new to machining, but not shooting or gunsmithing.  That said, a heavier lathe is always better if you have the funds and space for it.


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## Chipper5783 (Feb 21, 2019)

johnnyc14 said:


> Just to add another view, i have been looking at the PM1440HD for a couple of years and waiting for the Canadian dollar to get stronger. I ran out of patience recently and decided to bite the bullet and buy a machine from Modern Tool, a very reputable machinery distributor in Canada. It is very similar looking to the PM1440HD, the model number is GH1440W. Jet also sells this machine with the same model number.



I bought my original lathe from Modern Tool back in '83 - an Enterprise 1550.  It has been a good machine for me (still the most used machine in the shop).  I'd say you made a good choice - buy as good & big a machine as you can afford and it will be a keeper for a long time.


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## MattM (Feb 21, 2019)

The 15x54 Leblond arrived yesterday and is now firmly ensconced in my shop.  Will power it up today.

I'm going to move to the Leblond forum.  Those who are interested can see pictures there soon.

Thanks for all the great information.


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## johnnyc14 (Feb 21, 2019)

Thanks Matt, looking forward to seeing it. I will also post pictures and other info about my new lathe from Modern when I receive it next week. I'll  post in the VARIOUS OTHER BRANDS OF MACHINERY forum.


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## MattM (Feb 22, 2019)

Pictures now up on the LeBlond forum for anyone interested.


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