# Hitachi NE-S1 inverter, can't reverse rotation



## David M (Oct 19, 2014)

I am wiring one of these to my lathe and can only get the spindle to turn backwards. Tried function codes C021 & 026, 51 should be the forward rotation signal and 52 should be the reverse rotation signal but no matter where I set them all I get is reverse. Am I doing something wrong or is it a problem with the inverter?


----------



## JimDawson (Oct 20, 2014)

Just for starters, reverse any two motor leads, this will make the motor run the other direction.  I'll do some research, and see what I can find.


----------



## JimDawson (Oct 20, 2014)

C021 and C026 control the function of the Intelligent Output Terminals and the Alarm Relay Terminals.  They are for monitoring from an external device.

In order to change direction from the inverter, you would have to put a switch between Terminal L and Intelligent Input Terminal 1, and have C001 set to 00  See Pages 7-12, 6-13 and 6-15.  The illustration on 6-13 seems to be the default setting.

I hope this helps.


----------



## Karl_T (Oct 20, 2014)

Jim is spot on with his advice. reverse any two motor leads and your keypad run/stop button will now run the lathe in the forward direction.

If you want to be able to run the lathe both directions, you're going to need to connect input switches to the input terminal. I see Jim has several of the key pages highlighted for you.

Do you already have input switches on your lathe to do this? Give us a picture of what you have and want to do and we'll walk you through it.

VFD's can be a bit perplexing at first. You'll LOVE it when all set up.

Karl

PS, I just posted a VFD control box I built for my son this summer:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/27040-VFD-control-box?p=238324&posted=1#post238324


----------



## David M (Oct 20, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> C021 and C026 control the function of the Intelligent Output Terminals and the Alarm Relay Terminals.  They are for monitoring from an external device.
> 
> In order to change direction from the inverter, you would have to put a switch between Terminal L and Intelligent Input Terminal 1, and have C001 set to 00  See Pages 7-12, 6-13 and 6-15.  The illustration on 6-13 seems to be the default setting.
> 
> I hope this helps.



Switching two motor leads was the first thing I tried, nothing changed.

By switch, do you mean an ordinary on/off toggle switch? 

I am not an electrician, but I like to  think I can follow simple instructions. The diagram on 6-13 looks to me like I should switch back and forth from terminals 2 and 1 to reverse the rotation, and what the heck is a frequency setting resistor, or does it even have anything to do with rotation direction? The diagram on 6-15 means absolutely nothing to me. You obviously know much more about these things than I do, and I appreciate the help, especially written in something other than a bad Japanese translation.

Also, I was able to change the accel/decal times, but the operation of the keypad was erratic at best. Pressing the ESC key does not advance to the next code and stop, you have to hold it down to get anything to happen. When it starts to change it flashes codes in a seemingly random fashion and you have to let up on the button as the code you want flashes by. Same with the up/down arrows, they don't advance in any kind of a predictable way, one push of the buttons most often does nothing. Bad keypad? Bad inverter? Both? 

There was a voice in my head whispering....rotary converter.....when I bought this thing, I am starting to wish I had listened.


----------



## David M (Oct 20, 2014)

Karl_T said:


> Jim is spot on with his advice. reverse any two motor leads and your keypad run/stop button will now run the lathe in the forward direction.
> 
> If you want to be able to run the lathe both directions, you're going to need to connect input switches to the input terminal. I see Jim has several of the key pages highlighted for you.
> 
> ...



Nice box, too bad you weren't in the neighborhood!!  Your son and I have at least one thing in common, I think I can build just about anything from wood, but when it comes to electricity......not so much.


----------



## JimDawson (Oct 20, 2014)

_Switching two motor leads was the first thing I tried, nothing changed._
I am a bit confused, interchanging two of the motor leads MUST reverse the motor rotation in any 3 phase motor circuit.  I can't tell you why that didn't work.

_By switch, do you mean an ordinary on/off toggle switch? _
Yes, I would use a 2 position toggle switch.  Single Pole, Double Throw (SPDT).  This would allow switching between FOR/REV.

_I am not an electrician, but I like to  think I can follow simple instructions. The diagram on 6-13 looks to me like I should switch back and forth from terminals 2 and 1 to reverse the rotation, and what the heck is a frequency setting resistor, or does it even have anything to do with rotation direction? The diagram on 6-15 means absolutely nothing to me. You obviously know much more about these things than I do, and I appreciate the help, especially written in something other than a bad Japanese translation._
Yes, connect terminal L to terminal 1, and it should run forward.  Connecting terminal 2 to terminal L will cause it to run in reverse.

The Frequency Setting Resistor is optional, this would allow you to change the speed from an external knob.  

6-15 addresses a 3 wire switch set up, for full remote operation.  Not important right now.

Sometimes it is interesting to try to wade through the translation, I've been doing it for years so I'm beginning to understand it.  This manual isn't too bad, try to get through the ones from China

_Also, I was able to change the accel/decal times, but the operation of the keypad was erratic at best. Pressing the ESC key does not advance to the next code and stop, you have to hold it down to get anything to happen. When it starts to change it flashes codes in a seemingly random fashion and you have to let up on the button as the code you want flashes by. Same with the up/down arrows, they don't advance in any kind of a predictable way, one push of the buttons most often does nothing. Bad keypad? Bad inverter? Both? _
Sometimes the keypads act a little strange and it takes a while to get used to a particular one.  It's not impossible that you have a bad keypad, but I suspect not at this time.

_There was a voice in my head whispering....rotary converter.....when I bought this thing, I am starting to wish I had listened._
We'll help you get through this.  It can be frustrating.


----------



## Wheresmywrench? (Oct 20, 2014)

Excuse me for jumping in here. I do not mean to hijack the thread or anything. I have just installed the Hitachi NE-S1 inverter with the optional NES1-OP key pad on the mill head of my Maximat V10 lathe/Mill combo and it is a pain to setup at first. Took a lot of reading and trial and error but I got it to work.

 Also there is a YouTube video on wiring and programing this unit which helped me a lot, here is the link 

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFl8kjsZ8B8&feature=player_detailpage* . 

Now my question is this. On what frequency should I set it? should I just set it to 60 and run the mill as normal? Sorry for the intrusion


----------



## David M (Oct 20, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> _Switching two motor leads was the first thing I tried, nothing changed._
> I am a bit confused, interchanging two of the motor leads MUST reverse the motor rotation in any 3 phase motor circuit.  I can't tell you why that didn't work.
> 
> _By switch, do you mean an ordinary on/off toggle switch? _
> ...



Thanks Jim, the clouds are starting to lift, still a little foggy though. To switch between fwd and rev I need to connect 2 and 1 to L alternately? wouldn't the SPDT switch either connect or disconnect both at the same time? I was thinking an on/off/on with L in the middle and 1 and 2 on either side......am I of track here.

Why switching two wires did nothing is a mystery to me too, I have other 3ph tools and that has always worked before. I thought that maybe somehow the inverter knew which way the motor was turning and just would not change it.


----------



## David M (Oct 20, 2014)

Wheresmywrench? said:


> Excuse me for jumping in here. I do not mean to hijack the thread or anything. I have just installed the Hitachi NE-S1 inverter with the optional key pad on the mill head of my Maximat V10 lathe/Mill combo and it is a pain to setup at first. Took a lot of reading and trial and error but I got it to work.
> 
> Also there is a YouTube video on wiring and programing this unit, here is the link *https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFl8kjsZ8B8&feature=player_detailpage* .
> 
> Now my question is this. On what frequency should I set it? should I just set it to 60 and run the mill as normal? Sorry for the intrusion



I found that video yesterday, it got me started but didn't go quite far enough. I can't answer your question, but I'd be willing to bet that one of these other guys can.


----------



## Wheresmywrench? (Oct 20, 2014)

OK thanks. With the reversing problem you are having. What about a forward/stop/reverse tumbler switch on the 3 phase line?


----------



## JimDawson (Oct 20, 2014)

_To switch between fwd and rev I need to connect 2 and 1 to L alternately? wouldn't the SPDT switch either connect or disconnect both at the same time? _
No, that would be a Double Pole, Single Throw (DPST) switch.  You do want to switch them alternately, so that would be a SPDT switch.  Sometimes the terms can get confusing. 








_I was thinking an on/off/on with L in the middle and 1 and 2 on either side......am I of track here._
Yes, that would be a 3 position SPDT switch.  That would work fine.

_Why switching two wires did nothing is a mystery to me too, I have other 3ph tools and that has always worked before. I thought that maybe somehow the inverter knew which way the motor was turning and just would not change it._
This is the first time I have ever heard of that happening, and I've been working with 3 phase motors for 40 years, and inverters since the mid 80's


----------



## JimDawson (Oct 20, 2014)

Wheresmywrench? said:


> Now my question is this. On what frequency should I set it? should I just set it to 60 and run the mill as normal? Sorry for the intrusion



I normally run mine at about 60 (I have my max speed limited to 70), and use the belt for course speed changes.  Then use the VFD to fine tune the speed for the job.  For reaming, power tapping, etc, I will turn the speed down for that operation, but I don't run the motor for extended periods at slow speed, because of the lack of cooling from the motor fan.


----------



## JimDawson (Oct 20, 2014)

Wheresmywrench? said:


> With the reversing problem you are having. What about a forward/stop/reverse tumbler switch on the 3 phase line?



The VFD will handle the FOR/REV just fine, in this case it's just a commissioning issue.  Stay tuned, we'll get it worked out.  The other problem with that thought is that you never want to disconnect the VFD from the motor when under power.  It can fry the VFD.


----------



## David M (Oct 20, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> _To switch between fwd and rev I need to connect 2 and 1 to L alternately? wouldn't the SPDT switch either connect or disconnect both at the same time? _
> No, that would be a Double Pole, Single Throw (DPST) switch.  You do want to switch them alternately, so that would be a SPDT switch.  Sometimes the terms can get confusing.
> 
> _I was thinking an on/off/on with L in the middle and 1 and 2 on either side......am I of track here._
> ...



C001 is set to 00, I hardwired both 1 and 2 alternately to L (there are two positions marked L, I tried both) still only one direction of rotation. Do I have a faulty inverter? Might explain the eratic nature of the control panel and why switching wires did nothing.


----------



## JimDawson (Oct 20, 2014)

David M said:


> C001 is set to 00, I hardwired both 1 and 2 alternately to L (there are two positions marked L, I tried both) still only one direction of rotation. Do I have a faulty inverter? Might explain the eratic nature of the control panel and why switching wires did nothing.



Sorry, I have to ask this question, Are you sure you have a 3 phase motor on the lathe?  I'm not trying to be a smart a$$ here.  This thing is exhibiting strange behavior.

C001 should be set to 00
C002 should be set to 01
Make sure there is a jumper between terminals PLC and P24
Also look at the notes on the bottom of page 5-3, regarding the setting of SW4 and SW5.  It looks like SW4 should be set to OFF, and SW5 should be set to OPE.  This is a bit unclear in the manual, I think incorrect settings might cause unstable operation of the keypad.
See page 3-2 for switch locations.


----------



## David M (Oct 20, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> Sorry, I have to ask this question, Are you sure you have a 3 phase motor on the lathe?  I'm not trying to be a smart a$$ here.  This thing is exhibiting strange behavior.
> 
> C001 should be set to 00
> C002 should be set to 01
> ...



No need to be sorry, I've made dumber mistakes than that.

C001 is set to 00
C002 is set to 01 
PLC/P24 jumper is in place.
SW4 & SW5 switches, I installed the keypad according to the video above, which included setting both switches. They sell these things so I am assuming the info is correct. 

Just for kicks I ran a cord across the shop to a rotary converter that I run a couple other tools from. I ran the motor, switched two wires, and it reversed.

I'll check the SW switched again but I think they are OK.


----------



## David M (Oct 20, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> Sorry, I have to ask this question, Are you sure you have a 3 phase motor on the lathe?  I'm not trying to be a smart a$$ here.  This thing is exhibiting strange behavior.
> 
> C001 should be set to 00
> C002 should be set to 01
> ...



I watched the video again, it says SW4 to ON, and SW5 to RS485, which is how mine are set. Should I switch them and see what happens?


----------



## JimDawson (Oct 20, 2014)

Check b035,  Rotation Direction Restriction, should be set to 00
A002, Run Command Source, should be set to 01 for using a switch on terminals 1,2

One other possibility is to reset to the factory default settings, and start from the beginning, see page 7-77.  It could be that with the erratic behavior of the key pad, you may have inadvertently set a parameter that you shouldn't have.


----------



## JimDawson (Oct 20, 2014)

David M said:


> I watched the video again, it says SW4 to ON, and SW5 to RS485, which is how mine are set. Should I switch them and see what happens?



I guess I would leave them as suggested in the video.  I was not able to really understand where they are supposed to be set from the instructions.


----------



## David M (Oct 20, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> Check b035,  Rotation Direction Restriction, should be set to 00
> A002, Run Command Source, should be set to 01 for using a switch on terminals 1,2
> 
> One other possibility is to reset to the factory default settings, and start from the beginning, see page 7-77.  It could be that with the erratic behavior of the key pad, you may have inadvertently set a parameter that you shouldn't have.



You're going to love this.................

A002 was not set to 01, so I set it there. Now....The lathe will run in both directions.......But

2-L is forward, 1-L is reverse. Power off, wire between 1 or 2 is connected to L, when I turn power on to the inverter the motor starts. I push stop and it stops but will not start again using he start button. If I switch 1 and 2 the motor will start again (without pushing the start button) in the opposite direction, and again I can stop it using the stop button but the start button will not restart it. B035 is at 00 so neither direction should be locked out.

I looked for page 7-77 but the directions I am reading from only go up to 7-76.

I am going to see about getting at least a replacement keypad, if not the whole thing. If you are right and errant codes are causing a problem I am not going to be able to fix them with the keypad I have.


----------



## JimDawson (Oct 20, 2014)

Happy to hear there is progress, sounds like it's not quite there yet.

This is the manual I'm using.

http://www.automatedpt.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/NE-S1QuickReferenceGuide.pdf

I'll research a bit more to see what I can find.


----------



## David M (Oct 20, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> Happy to hear there is progress, sounds like it's not quite there yet.
> 
> This is the manual I'm using.
> 
> ...



Thanks Jim, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your time.

The manual I have been reading comes from Hitachis' web site, odd that it does not include that page. I may give that a try, even with my schizophrenic key pad.


----------



## JimDawson (Oct 20, 2014)

If you have a center OFF switch, try this.  Turn power on with the switch set to the center position, then switch to forward.  I expect that the motor will start.  Then switch to the center position, the motor should stop.  Then switch to reverse, the motor should run in reverse.

If you hit the Stop button, Then I think you have to switch to the center position then back to the desired direction.


----------



## David M (Oct 20, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> If you have a center OFF switch, try this.  Turn power on with the switch set to the center position, then switch to forward.  I expect that the motor will start.  Then switch to the center position, the motor should stop.  Then switch to reverse, the motor should run in reverse.
> 
> If you hit the Stop button, Then I think you have to switch to the center position then back to the desired direction.



You are correct. I don't have a switch on it right now, just touching wires together. 

If I turn on the power then touch wire 2 to wire L the motor will start in forward, disconnect the wire, motor stops. Now I touch wire 1 to wire L, motor starts in reverse, disconnect wire, motor stops.

I can start, stop, and reverse the motor using only a three position toggle switch, not sure that is how it is designed to be used, but it appears as though it will work. If I use it like this, should I look for a switch with a lock out so that I can't go directly from one direction to the other without letting the decel function work?


----------



## JimDawson (Oct 20, 2014)

David M said:


> You are correct. I don't have a switch on it right now, just touching wires together.
> 
> If I turn on the power then touch wire 2 to wire L the motor will start in forward, disconnect the wire, motor stops. Now I touch wire 1 to wire L, motor starts in reverse, disconnect wire, motor stops.
> 
> I can start, stop, and reverse the motor using only a three position toggle switch, not sure that is how it is designed to be used, but it appears as though it will work. If I use it like this, should I look for a switch with a lock out so that I can't go directly from one direction to the other without letting the decel function work?



The stop lockout is a safety feature.  There is actually a term for that, it's called a Prior Act.  This means you have to do at least two separate things to restart (in this case, switch to off then back on).

If you think it might be necessary to ''instant reverse'' the lathe, like for power tapping, you might want the just get in the habit of stopping the machine with the stop button, then switch to off then back to the direction you want to run.  I think later you might want to build a 3 button panel, FOR/REV, START, E-STOP, and a  external pot for speed control.  I wouldn't worry about a travel lock switch, they are made, but I'm not sure exactly sure where to find one.  A Google search should turn one up.


----------



## David M (Oct 20, 2014)

JimDawson said:


> The stop lockout is a safety feature.  There is actually a term for that, it's called a Prior Act.  This means you have to do at least two separate things to restart (in this case, switch to off then back on).
> 
> If you think it might be necessary to ''instant reverse'' the lathe, like for power tapping, you might want the just get in the habit of stopping the machine with the stop button, then switch to off then back to the direction you want to run.  I think later you might want to build a 3 button panel, FOR/REV, START, E-STOP, and a  external pot for speed control.  I wouldn't worry about a travel lock switch, they are made, but I'm not sure exactly sure where to find one.  A Google search should turn one up.



I wont waste too much time looking then, I can get a three position switch at the local hardware store. I may build a panel at some point, Karl T has a nice looking one at the top of this post. The lathe has a gearmotor driven variable pulley setup for speed control that I plan to use for now. I have read that they are nearly impossible to fix when they wear out so the electronic speed control will be a backup for now. I also contacted the vendor about the keypad, we'll see what they say. For now though the inverter seems to be doing what I want it to do, so I can finally start using my new (old) lathe.

Thanks again for all the help, I really could not have done it by myself.


----------



## JimDawson (Oct 20, 2014)

It was my pleasure helping out.  I'm happy the hear it's running.  Now it's almost time to make chips!!!


----------

