# precision keyless chuck with R8 shank



## miles&me (Feb 27, 2019)

Does anyone use one of these chucks in your mill? Are you happy with it for drilling holes? Says it has .001 runout. please let me know if you would buy it again or if you regret having bought it. thanks


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## mmcmdl (Feb 27, 2019)

Everyone uses them . >.001 runout for a drill chuck isn't bad , after all it's a drill chuck and not a precision tool .


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## kb58 (Feb 27, 2019)

People who are fine with 0.001" will like it, and those who need better, won't. Also, those who haven't compared it to a high end unit are also probably happy with it. Both the preceding describes me, so yes, I'm happy with mine.

BTW, drill chuck errors tend to be affected more so by inaccurate hole placement, and/or the drill bit "walking", and applies to all drill chucks regardless of quality.


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## macardoso (Feb 27, 2019)

I purchased a keyless 0-5/8" from tormach that I found to be too long to be used effectively on my mill with its limited Z travel. It now sits on my lathe tailstock and I love it. Keyless is the way to go.


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## RJSakowski (Feb 27, 2019)

I use keyless chucks, keyed chucks, and collets for drilling on the mills.  Keyless has the advantage of faster tool change but adds the most length to the tool setup.  Keyed is slower but doesn't add as much length.  Also keyless chucks tend to be self tightening which can be a problem with large drills so many prefer I use a keyed chuck for those applications.  Personally, I have never experience a lockup with my keyless chucks though. 

Collets are the slowest to change out and can be problematic when vertical travel is limited and it is impractical to offset in the x or y direction to unload and load a collet.  With a DRO, this is less of an issue as it is relatively simple to move horizontally for  tool change and accurately return to your work position.  Collets have an advantage in that the added length for holding a drill is minimal so the tool offset is closer to that of your other tooling.  This can be important on a mill with limited z axis travel.  Collets also tend to have less runout than a chuck as well.

I use the Tormach TTS system and use ER20 collets.  This system requires only 1-1/2" clearance for a tool change vs. 4" for an R8 collet. With multiple collet chucks, I can preload all the tooling and enter tool offsets necessary for a project.  I use the TTS system on my mill/drill as well as the Tormach CNC.  For any drilling where an accurate depth is required, I will measure and use tool offsets but for most drilling, it is sufficient to touch  off on the surface and drill further by the required depth as noted on the DRO.


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## ThinWoodsman (Feb 27, 2019)

miles&me said:


> Does anyone use one of these chucks in your mill? Are you happy with it for drilling holes? Says it has .001 runout. please let me know if you would buy it again or if you regret having bought it. thanks



Bought one of those from PM, use it, like it, do not regret it.


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## ddickey (Feb 27, 2019)

What chuck has .001" run-out?


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## kb58 (Feb 27, 2019)

ddickey said:


> What chuck has .001" run-out?


This and this


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## Cadillac (Feb 27, 2019)

Funny how they go to the fifth decimal on specs .00078. Then induce spindle runout your at a .001 so they’re right on.


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## ddickey (Feb 27, 2019)

Sorry that is incorrect. first one TIR max .00156" and the second .002"
I think those are very nice chucks. Anyone know the manufacturer?


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## Firstgear (Feb 27, 2019)

ddickey said:


> Sorry that is incorrect. first one TIR max .00156" and the second .002"
> I think those are very nice chucks. Anyone know the manufacturer?


is this because it can be off total amount in one direction and same amount in the other direction 180 degrees opposite?


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## ddickey (Feb 27, 2019)

That's correct. If it's out .0007" on one side it will be the same on the other.
There may be some obscure European chuck below .001" but I don't know of any.


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## MSBriggs (Feb 27, 2019)

Cadillac said:


> Funny how they go to the fifth decimal on specs .00078. Then induce spindle runout your at a .001 so they’re right on.



0.00078 inches is 0.0198 mm.    0.02 mm converts to 0.000787 inches.   It's likely that the original spec was 0.02 mm -- not sure why it got converted to 0.00078 inches rather than 0.00079.   And it would have made more sense to convert to 0.0008 inches or even 0.001 inches -- I doubt that the run out spec is that precise.


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## mmcmdl (Feb 27, 2019)

First time you spin a drill in it , it'll be .005 !


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## Bamban (Feb 28, 2019)

Here is an old video I took when I checked the run out of the R8 drill chuck from Precision Matthews.

PM Drill Chuck


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## Firstgear (Feb 28, 2019)

Bamban said:


> Here is an old video I took when I checked the run out of the R8 drill chuck from Precision Matthews.
> 
> PM Drill Chuck


So that had a total of 0.0005” total runout?


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## Bamban (Feb 28, 2019)

Firstgear said:


> So that had a total of 0.0005” total runout?



The indicator is 0.0005 Mit, as you can see total is about one graduation.


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## Firstgear (Feb 28, 2019)

Sorry, but being a newbie I need a little help, was it total 0.0005 or was it less?


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## Cadillac (Feb 28, 2019)

Looks good to me. Since were talking keyless chuck I had purchased a cheapy from cdco tools awhile back. Recently I noticed something odd and would like others to check theirs to see if mine is the oddball. With nothing in the chuck put the shank in one hand and with your other hand push and pull the actual chuck. Is there play between the shank and the chuck head with nothing in the chuck? Then when I put a tool in the chuck and tighten that play goes away. Seems odd to me like the shank is a touch loose fit till the chuck is tightened with tool in it. Anyone else see this with there keyless chuck?


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## Firstgear (Feb 28, 2019)

I have PM chucks, the ultra precision ones...really very nice and I don’t notice the loose play you are experiencing.


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## wrmiller (Feb 28, 2019)

Firstgear said:


> I have PM chucks, the ultra precision ones...really very nice and I don’t notice the loose play you are experiencing.



I also have these, and no complaints.


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## T Bredehoft (Feb 28, 2019)

I purchase one of PM's   keyless chucks with my lathe, surprised that it came with a spanner wrench. I've been using the   wrench, don't know how tight it is witihout..... No complaints.


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## Tom1948 (Feb 28, 2019)

I have one also on my PM727v mill. No complaints. I am a hobbyist but my chuck has been admiried by other more expierienced machinists. I always snug my drills down with tools provided. I dont rely on hand tightening.


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## darkzero (Feb 28, 2019)

Tom1948 said:


> I have one also on my PM727v mill. No complaints. I am a hobbyist but my chuck has been admiried by other more expierienced machinists. I always snug my drills down with tools provided. I dont rely on hand tightening.



You tighten down a keyless chuck with the spanner wrench?


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## 81husky (Feb 28, 2019)

I have 2 ultra precision chucks, and think they are great. I've never tightened anything with the spanner. I did have to use the spanner once to loosen a large drill that caught.


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## Sandia (Feb 28, 2019)

miles&me said:


> Does anyone use one of these chucks in your mill? Are you happy with it for drilling holes? Says it has .001 runout. please let me know if you would buy it again or if you regret having bought it. thanks



I have several Albrecht keyless, so don't know about the PM chucks, but I think you would like a 5/8" shank a lot better in the long haul, doesnt use as much Z axis. I do have a 5/8" Albrecht chuck with R8 shank, never gets used.


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## westerner (Feb 28, 2019)

kb58 said:


> BTW, drill chuck errors tend to be affected more so by inaccurate hole placement, and/or the drill bit "walking", and applies to all drill chucks regardless of quality.


I say, Amen Brother!!  Drills are rough, quick and dirty, metal moving tools. They are not "precision", in a machinist sense. I use the heck outta them, because I am usually not a machinist, in ANY sense. 
I can see the attraction of a high quality drill chuck, but personally I feel that if I need a hole located "precisely", I will murder it in with a drill, and then bore to size. I don't do much of this sort of work, so maybe the last sentence in the previous paragraph is all I shoulda posted


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## Tom1948 (Feb 28, 2019)

Yes, I hold the spindle with the tool provided. Then just snug the drill chuck with the other spanner that hooks to the drill chuck. If your drill should spin and not hold tight you can bugger up the shank of the drill. Sometimes if I am just spotting somthing soft with a center drill I just hand tighten then install drill and give it a snug. Figured that was the way its meant to be done because of the tools provided.


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## mikey (Feb 28, 2019)

Tom1948 said:


> Yes, I hold the spindle with the tool provided. Then just snug the drill chuck with the other spanner that hooks to the drill chuck. Figured that was the way its meant to be done because of the tools provided.



Keyless chucks normally don't require tools to operate properly and I suspect the spanners are meant to loosen a chuck that is locked around a big drill when it gets stuck in the work. I bet your chuck would work fine with just your mitts.


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## Winegrower (Mar 1, 2019)

For the record, I would like to know if when you say “runout is .001” you mean either 1) plus or minus .001, or 2) plus or minus .0005.
Has to be one or the other, and we should be clear on terminology.


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## darkzero (Mar 1, 2019)

Tom1948 said:


> Yes, I hold the spindle with the tool provided. Then just snug the drill chuck with the other spanner that hooks to the drill chuck. If your drill should spin and not hold tight you can bugger up the shank of the drill. Sometimes if I am just spotting somthing soft with a center drill I just hand tighten then install drill and give it a snug. Figured that was the way its meant to be done because of the tools provided.



Yup, like Mike said, you don't need to use the spanner to tighten the chuck, it's meant for loosening. Not good practice IMO. Keyless chucks are designed to self tighten, they get tighter as more torque is applied to the jaws by the drill bit. This can be a nuisance sometimes. I've had my keyless chuck in the lathe self tighten so hard that I had one heck of a time getting it loose with the spanner, jaws indented the drill bit shank also. Never again will I use S&D drills in a keyless chuck, I've been trying to avoid using them altogether anyway.

I originally bought a Glacern integral shank keyless chuck for mill use cause it's shorter. But the integral chuck doesn't have a fixed collar to grip for tightening. Eventually I got sick of reaching up to use the spindle stop or putting in low gear to tighten the chuck (by hand). I switched to the normal style that has the fixed collar. The added stick out doesn't bother me at all which I originally thought it would. I love this one so much better, much quicker to snug down. Which reminds me, I need to dig that integral chuck out of hiding & sell it.


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## Tom1948 (Mar 1, 2019)

Ok, thanks for the advice mikey. I guess that all kind of  makes sense.


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## mikey (Mar 1, 2019)

I, and Will too, it seems, have learned about having to pry a keyless chuck open after a big drill locks up the chuck. At least you have a spanner; I have to use a strap wrench on my Albrechts. Now I avoid big drills and either bore or use a rotabroach. Lesson learned!


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## kvt (Mar 1, 2019)

I have a PM and one of the high price Albrecht.   both about the same,  The PM seems a bit bigger in size but they are both good.  Have not even taken the wrench out of the package that came with the PM one.  I know that drill chucks are not as precision thus have never checked the run out.


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## wrmiller (Mar 1, 2019)

mikey said:


> Keyless chucks normally don't require tools to operate properly and I suspect the spanners are meant to loosen a chuck that is locked around a big drill when it gets stuck in the work. I bet your chuck would work fine with just your mitts.



I've never used a spanner on my PM chucks. Not even sure where they are?


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## darkzero (Mar 1, 2019)

mikey said:


> I, and Will too, it seems, have learned about having to pry a keyless chuck open after a big drill locks up the chuck. At least you have a spanner; I have to use a strap wrench on my Albrechts. Now I avoid big drills and either bore or use a rotabroach. Lesson learned!



Haha, I tried to do the same when my Bison keyless got stuck but the strap wrench I have didn't work. Luckily I have a MSC close by, went & picked up a spanner and still had a heck of a time getting it loose. Yep. Lesson learned!


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## T Bredehoft (Mar 1, 2019)

"Runout is .001" is shorthand for  " Runout is TIR .001."



mikey said:


> I bet your chuck would work fine with just your mitts.



Mikey, The first time I used the chuck it had a 1/2" drill in it and wanted to slip. I've not tried it on smaller drills, will check when I try something smaller.


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## mikey (Mar 1, 2019)

T Bredehoft said:


> Mikey, The first time I used the chuck it had a 1/2" drill in it and wanted to slip. I've not tried it on smaller drills, will check when I try something smaller.



Hey Tom. I hope it works for you. I don't own a PM chuck so I don't know how well they work. I do have 5 Albrecht and 2 Rohm keyless chucks and none of them slip with drills 1/2" and under. In fact, they don't slip with bigger drills, either, but if one of those big drills get stuck on exit on the far side of the hole then the chuck can self-tighten and make it a challenge to get the drill out. I had a big S&D drill get stuck on my drill press and had to pop the chuck off the arbor because my strap wrench wouldn't budge it and put it in a fixture that I use to service these chucks. That gets it open with no problems but it is such a pain that I gave away my set of S&D drills to my friend Bonehead. I'm waiting for the day he calls to tell me the drill is stuck in his chuck!  

I even stopped using big drills on the lathe. I have Morse Taper drills up to about an inch. If I have to go bigger, I bore it.

I used to use my Jacobs Super Chuck and it works fine with big drills but I've grown too spoiled by keyless chucks. Yeah, I know I'm lazy!


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## Tom1948 (Mar 1, 2019)

Well I guess I have been doing it wrong. I am a newbee and the PM is my first mill. I never did tork down on it real hard. Just a bit of a "snug".  Had some bits spin on me on a cheap hand drill with keyless, I guess thats how I may of picked up the habit.


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## mikey (Mar 1, 2019)

Not wrong, Tom. Just a new tool for you, that's all. You're gonna love that chuck!


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## wrmiller (Mar 2, 2019)

Tom1948 said:


> Well I guess I have been doing it wrong. I am a newbee and the PM is my first mill. I never did tork down on it real hard. Just a bit of a "snug".  Had some bits spin on me on a cheap hand drill with keyless, I guess thats how I may of picked up the habit.



Largest holes I have drilled with the large PM chuck is 3/4". I was using a silver and deming drill bit. Worked great.


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## miles&me (Mar 2, 2019)

I want to thank everyone that replied to my questions, I think I am going to buy a PM chuck basted on your comments, thank you!


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## starr256 (Mar 4, 2019)

When the shop is at 20'F, you gotta use the spanner on the chuck.


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## Firstgear (Mar 4, 2019)

starr256 said:


> When the shop is at 20'F, you gotta use the spanner on the chuck.


I need more than a spanner on the chuck when it’s that cold, I need long underware!


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## Buffalo21 (Mar 4, 2019)

I must be the only one who hates keyless chucks, I bought 3 or 4 of the a couple of Rohms and at least 1 Albrecht, I could never get them to open up, without a pair of channellocks, I ended up giving them away. I went with Rohm keyed chucks


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## PHPaul (Mar 6, 2019)

@kb58 - Thanks for those links.  I bought the $70 version and am very happy with it!

Of course, compared to the Chineseum chuck that was included with the tooling when I bought my used mill, pretty much anything would be an improvement!


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## PHPaul (Mar 22, 2019)

@kb58 - Thanks one more time for pointing out that EXCELLENT chuck.

I've recently gotten interested in RC boats but being the cheap esso bee that I am, I don't want to spend a lot of money on them.  Scratch building stuff out of what I have laying around with minimum expense is the current plan.







I built this prop shaft and stuffing box today.  The coupler is a piece of 3/8 brass rod bored .125 on the shaft end and 3mm on the motor end.  That was done on the lathe.  Where the precision chuck came in was drilling and threading the 3mm x .50 hole for the set screw.

Very basic, beginner level stuff I know, but I'd NEVER have been able to do it without my mill and that wonderful chuck.  Confirming yet again that money spent on GOOD tools is money well spent.


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