# Share Quick-change Tools On Two Logan Lathes? Plus Tooling Recommendations



## intjonmiller (Feb 13, 2016)

My brother has both of my father's old lathes in his garage. It's a shame because he doesn't seem to be inclined to use them, but then I don't have room for either. I'm trying to get them tooled out for use (as I'm free to use them any time), but I need help making a couple selections. 

Both have lantern-style tool holders, so those are all I've ever used. I hate them. I want to get QCTPs for both. But the question is, can I use the same size for both? One is a 10" model 850, the other a 12" model 2525V. 

The writeups I see say that the AXA size covers a range including both. But is that advisable? Since the BXA would fit the 12", would I be better off there? I imagine the thicker tool holders will experience less chatter, all else being equal. But is it enough to matter? Obviously there is a real benefit to being able to use the same tools on either machine. 

Also I need a starter set of tooling. I expect to be cutting a lot of aluminum (I melt my own aluminum for practice stock), a fair amount of mild steel, and occasionally some stainless or tool steel for small rods, pins, etc. I am going to be placing an order with Shars this weekend for some other things (vise for the grinder, better indicator holder, and more), so that would be the ideal place for me to shop. My dad still has a couple boxes of different sizes of parting tools (industrial surplus of some sort) that I should be able to use, so turning, facing, and boring tools appropriate for my tasks are needed. I've only had maybe 10 hours on the lathe so far, so let's just pretend I don't know anything, so please spell it out for me. Thanks!


----------



## intjonmiller (Feb 13, 2016)

Oh, also both have 4-jaw chucks. I don't recall the size at the moment. I may consider getting a 3-jaw or larger 4-jaw at some point. How do I figure out which of the thousands of possible chuck configurations I would need? 

Really kicking myself for not taking shop in high school. I did Novell-certified networking stuff instead. Dumb move.


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Feb 13, 2016)

yes you can use the AXA for both the 10 and 12" lathes
the BXA is nice but i think it may be a bit too much excess for your lathes.
I personally have clone AXA's on 2 of my lathes  9" and  12" swings respectively.
i don't have any rigidity issues.
some lathes are more prone to chatter than others.
if chatter is a constant problem, lighter cuts or a change of speed can sometimes remedy those issues.
a properly adjusted machine will also have less chatter as well, conversely a worn machine may produce more chatter when all other things are equal.

in regards to you chuck question,
it will come down to the type of work you will be doing most.
an independent 4 jaw chuck will need to have the work centered every use, a 3 jaw scroll chuck will center the work itself
for me, i use a 3 jaw chuck 70% of the time, 4 jaw chuck 20%, 5c Collets 10%, between centers on occasion

if you are grabbing odd shaped materials or performing precision feats, a 4 jaw is the way to go- the 4 jaw can grab just about any shape with some forethought.
if you are grabbing round stock and don't necessarily need gnats nuts precision, i'd suggest a 3 jaw- for simplicity.

the choice is yours, some people never use a 3 jaw at all.


----------



## intjonmiller (Feb 13, 2016)

Thanks for the feedback! To clarify my chuck question (sorry I didn't word it better) how do I determine what size/mounting configuration I need? There are pages of fine print chuck listings in the catalogs I have. It's overwhelming. 

I subscribe to the philosophy that if you can only afford one chuck, make it a 4-jaw. But even with my little experience I can see how it would be nice to have a 3-jaw, even for just quickly facing one side before flipping it around to do further operations (or cleaning up a face after parting). So I'm thinking about having one set up with each (4-jaw on the 2525v, which actually has the leadscrew and gears installed). I would like to find something used if I can, but that's even harder to figure out what will work as I don't have experience and the lathe is not where I live so it's difficult to just reference off of it. 

Thanks again!


----------



## eeler1 (Feb 13, 2016)

Each chuck has a spindle-specific backplate, your 10" has a 1&1/2"-8 spindle,so any chuck would have to have that backplate otherwise you wouldn't be able to mount it to the spindle.  Don't know what the spindle is on the 12", some were 2&1/2"-8, and I believe others were L00.  Go to Logan actuators website and you can look up your serial # and model # to see what yours is.

Myself, I'd just use the 4-jaw chucks for now and put my money into a phase II or similar tool post and holders.

Oh, and we need pics, or your whole story never happened.


----------



## intjonmiller (Feb 13, 2016)

Fair enough. But that will have to wait until I get down there again. Without tooling in hand it's hard to justify the half hour each direction. (My brother is a big shot now and works and travels a ton, so visiting him isn't usually a viable excuse.)


----------



## P T Schram (Feb 13, 2016)

I OTOH would say  three-jaw would be the only one I'd want if I could only have one. The vast majority of what I do has been done with a three-jaw and I have only used the fours once or twice in 30 years.

Collets OTOH, I use frequently.

The AXA will eb fine.

Chatter has more IMO to do with rigidity of the machine and its mountings than the tool post as the tool post isn't going anywhere but the rest of the machine will hit harmonics of its resonant frequency and will chatter like one of my cats when there's a squirrel in the yard.

Heavy machines tend to chatter less for many reasons but if you have chatter, first, sharpen the tool, adjust its relationship to the workpiece, tighten gibs and lower feed rate.


----------



## Ben Nevis (Feb 13, 2016)

The AXA will do fine on both lathes. I assume there is a difference in distance from the spindle center to the top of the compound on both lathes. If so, make a spacer equal to the difference to put under the tool post when using the 12" lathe, and you will be able to switch from one lathe to the other without having  to readjust the tool height.


----------



## wa5cab (Feb 14, 2016)

It depends a bit on how tall the top of the 12" compound slide is as that varies a bit from one brand to another.  But in general, there seem to be two groups of people who bought BXA holders for their 12" machine - those who say they wish they had bought an AXA, and those who wish it but don't say it.  

Making a spacer block for the 12", as mentioned above, sounds like an excellent idea to me.  Definitely less expensive than buying two complete sets of holders.  One tip - you almost can't have too many 101 and/or 102 holders.  I currently have 11, one of which I have not yet needed to use..


----------



## intjonmiller (Feb 21, 2016)

I finally got a chance to go visit the lathes yesterday while picking up some other tools. Here's the 12":








This one was given to my oldest brother. He has a single phase motor for it, but I've encouraged him to get a 3-phase and a VFD. He has plenty of 240v power in his garage. And I was wrong, this has a 6" 3-jaw chuck. I was going by (apparently poor) memory when I said I might need a 3-jaw. This needs a 4-jaw.


----------



## intjonmiller (Feb 21, 2016)

And here's the 10", with a surprise announcement to follow...




Needs a new belt. This one slips terribly. I've already found the specs from Logan Actuator. 







My father disassembled the lathe years ago to restore it, including painting it, but never finished. First a move and then later a divorce threw off those plans. 



Fortunately he has what we think are all of the parts.


The shiny chuck is a Shars special I picked up about 6 months ago. The old chuck was in rough shape, and we could never get it tightened enough to take any but the slightest cuts. 



Of the tooling he has this excites me the most. It's a 10-pack of cobalt tool steel blanks that I can grind as I see fit. (Again, I have a T&C/universal grinder, but no tooling or fixtures for anything but surface grinding, and no real knowledge of how to use it yet anyway.)


----------



## intjonmiller (Feb 21, 2016)

Has a 6" 4-jaw chuck installed, and there's a 5" 3-jaw chuck in the box of tooling that I hadn't seen before. Must have been buried previously. 

I had forgotten about the tool post that is shown here. Very frustrating to use, possibly more so than the lantern-type in the box. I'll definitely be getting an AXA for it.


----------



## intjonmiller (Feb 21, 2016)

And, the surprise announcement: it's going to be mine-ish.  

This one belongs to Brother #2. Brother #1, who owns the garage where both are parked, suggested yesterday while the 3 of us were working on my mother's kitchen remodel, that we should pick a day to load up Brother #2's lathe to take it out to his newly completed Shopstrocity. (45'x45', wired for every high and low voltage anything he could need, plumbed with radiant heating, a full size mechanics wash basin, a full bathroom, a bonus room (I guess for when he's in the doghouse, but what a doghouse!), Rotary 2-post vehicle lift, etc, etc.) Brother #1 has a great garage but it's full of too much stuff right now, so the extra lathe has to go. 

Anyway, Brother #2 said that he almost never uses the lathe (and doesn't really know how anyway), so it would make more sense at my house if I have room for it. 

Yeah! I need to make room, but I have about 15' of wall space that is being used very poorly. I can fix that up with a couple Saturdays of work and then I can have my own (brother's) lathe in my garage! Sweet! 

I guess I'll be making the tooling a higher priority than I had previously thought. :-D


----------



## 4GSR (Feb 21, 2016)

Both lathes appear to be in very nice shape for their age.  Just need a good cleaning and some oil slapped on the ways and slides and your ready to go!

Yeah, I'm from a family of three brothers.  I'm the oldest, so when we sold the family homestead, I took my own lathe, the 13" and dad's 9" SBL.  Middle brother sold off most of the stuff and bought him a decent 14" lathe and mill. Brother #3 got left with nothing! He did get dad's Gerstner 052 tool chest with middle chest.  A couple years ago,  I picked up another 9" SBL same as dad's but in almost new condition.  He's happy right now.  But I'm a little jealous of him right now.  His new job he has now, he gets to play with all of the latest new CNC machines that get sold by his company.


----------



## intjonmiller (Feb 21, 2016)

That's funny. My "Brother #1" is in charge of IT for a manufacturer who has a row of high-end CNCs, including Wire EDM. He could have the guys at work run anything for him. But he still wants to learn to use the lathe, and I certainly respect that.  

Actually I'm hoping that if it turns out I'm missing any parts for the Model 850 that he may be able to get them to just cut it out for me (assuming we can easily determine what the part would be, like a specific gear). 

I also found out they have some laser metallurgical analysis tool. I guess they got tired of sending stuff off for analysis and bought their own. He says that one should be no problem if I need them to analyze something for me. So that whole question of "Is ____ made of decent steel so I can use it to make ____?" is actually a viable one for me. I have some 40+ year old saw blades that I've wondered about, for instance.


----------



## intjonmiller (Feb 21, 2016)

intjonmiller said:


>



Don't you just love the QC on the model stamp? It really betrays the quality of these machines.


----------



## 4GSR (Feb 21, 2016)

intjonmiller said:


> Don't you just love the QC on the model stamp? It really betrays the quality of these machines.



Yeah, that looks like my hand stamping!


----------



## CluelessNewB (Feb 21, 2016)

The Logan 850 would originally have had a turret tailstock and no compound.  In it's current configuration with a regular tailstock and a compund it is definitely more useful for typical home shop work.    You might want to see if any of the old turret lathe parts are still kicking around.  As it sits it is probably more or less equivalent to a Model 200

Here is a link to the sales sheet for the 850 from the Vintage Machinery Site:
http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2093/3381.pdf

And the manual for the Model 200 from the Downloads section  on this site:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/resources/logan-model-200-201-210-211-metal-lathe-1947-pdf.2231/

Nice get!


----------



## intjonmiller (Apr 9, 2016)

Well, it only took, what? six weeks? But it arrived today. The plan was for me to go help my brother load it up in the late afternoon. Instead he showed up early afternoon ready to unload it. I did not complain. Not even when he said he forgot the boxes of gears and tooling. I can handle going to pick those up.  

He broke the "pin" that secured the flat pulley belt (looks like a staple to me), but I can fix that. And I already put a couple jam nuts and low strength Loctite on the pulley cover stay. I can't believe that hadn't been done before now. They're just #10-32. 

The flat belt was already stretched a bit, and we suspected that was the cause of at least some of the chatter it was exhibiting the last time I used it. I just checked my assortment of used timing belts and I have one just barely smaller than this flat belt. Same width, slightly smaller diameter (the flat belt fits around the timing belt and barely doesn't close). Other than the issue of it being more complicated to install a continuous belt, do you see any reason to not use it? (Inside-out, so the teeth are on the outside.) I mean if it fails it fails, just like an oldschool flat belt, right? 

The motor drive belt looks great. Time to figure out how to work a proper quick change tool post into the budget.


----------



## Usmcdevildog (Apr 9, 2016)

Hello I have 2 phase 2 bxa tool post they are brand new  one is a piston and one is a wedge  the wedge also comes with 5 tool holders.

I also have a couple aloris holders  one is a bxa #71, #8


----------



## intjonmiller (Apr 11, 2016)

Thanks, but for this small lathe I'm going to go with the AXA size. I'm sure those will do well on eBay. Good luck!


----------

