# Debrief - rotary table abort



## Clock work (Jun 23, 2018)

I recently completed the arc of experience with adding a rotary table capability to my shop, by sending it back and then cleaning up the subsequent mess and non-trivial quantity of wasted heartbeats. I found the serial escalating disappointment of design and implementation decisions ultimately disheartening to overcome the severe joy I had to have this thing in MY shop. I don't think we've quite arrived at the point of the decline yet where it is unreasonable to want to take something out of the box and have at least five lousy minutes of joy with it for the close to a k-buck and dozens of hours was fully unusable investment and lost opportunity. 

I truly disliked my experience with this implement. It was one disappointment after another.. some documented in another thread but multiple others not. Not usable out of the box. In need of repair. INSANE design decisions to clamp steel grub screws down onto the threads of the most precision-important part in the machine, destroying them and rendering it completely unable to be disassembled without exerting far far too much force or unable to put the ring back a few degrees ahead of or behind the as-shipped position. HOURS of repair. Nontrivial internal and external rust that appeared to be indicative of over exposure to water. In need of documentation that thankfully SB produced very very nicely as they appear to have relabeled and sold it as SB. The index plate sets from the same manufacturer but another source... bathed in rust and missing a spacer necessary to correct function. When that missing point was raised to the distributor, they doctored the photo to no longer show the spacer... too bad I save copies of the adds/photos of everything I buy on line. I'm the proud owner of WAY too much grease that meets the spec called for for worms... high-stick open gear lube not incompatible with yellow metal but purchased from literally THE only source I could find that would sell a sub-$500-600 quantity. You just want FIVE LOUSY MINUTES OF JOY. 

I will say absolutely that the Grizzly tail stock I purchased appears to be just awesome and could not have been better packaged. I sent the rotary table and the index kits back.. I kept the tail stock and the grease. 

So as I wait for going back in to my shop to become interesting again (2.5 wasted weeks and I really really REALLY hate wasting heartbeats), I wonder if I want to take a second run at a rotary table. I won't own anything from that brand I just kicked out of my house... I'd have jumped over to the SB version instantly despite costing more but the exploded parts diagrams in their EXCELLENT documentation seemingly produced in-house for their relabeling of that table I'm talking about above still shows fasteners clamping down on threads. No. Possible. Way. I contacted Grizzly which was my #2 choice for an 8" rotary to request an exploded parts diagram of their table so I could see if I was just getting in to a different sinking life boat... thread-ruining design decisions and such but they don't have such a diagram. So, no thanks. I'm ancient. Can't afford it. Used high end iron out of a shop... Troyke... Yuasa.. etc. You have no idea how abused it was and I was actually just trying to treat myself to one nice thing... not a bunch of work and risk. 

I guess I'm curious if anyone has the Grizzly 8" rotary and has removed the worm and taken pictures along the way. I'd love to see them if you have. I'm curious if there might be suggestions for other 8" tables with a releasable worm (eccentric), dividing kit, vertical/horizontal capability, preferably 4 rather than three t-nut slots on the faceplate, MT3, reputation for precision and usable when new straight OUT OF THE BOX. No repairs... just a quick disassembly for inspection. Would love to hear if you had.. I'll be playing with ideas of a change in my motorcycle life until then. Thanks in advance. 

CW


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## mikey (Jun 23, 2018)

Yuasa makes good ones and Vertex makes a clone of it. Might waste some heartbeats taking a look.


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## dlane (Jun 23, 2018)

Wow all that typing just to get opinions on RT’s 
My 8” vertex works good out of the box


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## benmychree (Jun 23, 2018)

I bought a used 10" and a 15"Gorton rotary table on E Bay; The 15" is the same lower end with a larger (overhanging) tabletop;  much nicer than Troyke.


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## brino (Jun 23, 2018)

dlane said:


> Wow all that typing just to get opinions on RT’s



Venting prevents ex-plo-si-on.
-brino


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## Bi11Hudson (Jun 23, 2018)

Although I never had an 8" table, I did have a 6" indexer from Grizzly. Been a couple-three years back, it ended up too large for my work. I was quite satisfied with the machine overall. 

A little insight into "grub" screws. They end up on any number of machines. I have run into 3/8-16 grub screws on steel mill equipment. The trunion they were holding was enormous. The insight is the "little" piece of brass that the grub screw bears on. That actually does the locking. On the rare occasion there wasn't one, I made one. Just a piece of 1/8 brazing rod. It doesnt have to be pretty, just keep steel away from steel.


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## Winegrower (Jun 23, 2018)

I got a 12” Bridgeport rotary with the angle bracket.   The thing is awesome, smooth, east to read angles, etc.
Sometimes it’s a bit tricky to figure out a good mounting strategy for each new part.    I think smaller tables would be way more challenging.


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## markba633csi (Jun 23, 2018)

Yes there is a lot of junk out there, be prepared at all times to call your credit card company and holler. Don't try to fix a piece of junk. Send it back at once. The heart you save may be your own
Mark


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## Doubleeboy (Jun 23, 2018)

vertex stuff is good.  I like my dividing head and 6" rotary table


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## stupoty (Jun 24, 2018)

benmychree said:


> I bought a used 10" and a 15"Gorton rotary table on E Bay; The 15" is the same lower end with a larger (overhanging) tabletop;  much nicer than Troyke.



I have a 10" rotary table, can you lift the 15 or does it need a small crane ?

Stu


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## Clock work (Jun 24, 2018)

mikey said:


> Yuasa makes good ones and Vertex makes a clone of it. Might waste some heartbeats taking a look.



Thank you.. the safe assumption is it's a faithful clone so I have what I need on Yuasa. Appreciated.


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## Clock work (Jun 24, 2018)

dlane said:


> Wow all that typing just to get opinions on RT’s
> My 8” vertex works good out of the box



Everyone here is a vastly better machinist but I've got the personal satisfaction of knowing I can type/compose insanely fast. Thank you.


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## Clock work (Jun 24, 2018)

markba633csi said:


> Yes there is a lot of junk out there, be prepared at all times to call your credit card company and holler. Don't try to fix a piece of junk. Send it back at once. The heart you save may be your own
> Mark



A lot of it and it is escalating. It can be faster to fix than to return at times but I think given the escalating third-world look of crap I buy thru Amazon and other sources, it's not a single fault.. each procurement represents the real probability of turning into a Macy's Parade of Faults.


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## Clock work (Jun 24, 2018)

extropic said:


> In the interest of getting some useful information out of your rant, exactly what grease did you buy and from what source?
> I like to keep reasonable assortment of lubricants on hand.



Some type of lubriplate gear lube. I'll get the exact label next time I'm in my shop. It's made in three consistencies and I was able to get the firmest stuff. That stuff is going NO where.. it was not pure joy to work with it. If I came across the middle grade, I'd be highly motivated to try that. It also met the spec but it was not available in reasonably priced volumes.


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## Clock work (Jun 24, 2018)

higgite said:


> C'mon, CW, tell us how you REALLY feel about it. Without wasting any more heartbeats, of course.
> 
> I'm not sure since I sorta got overwhelmed with emotion while wading through all that, but I think you trashed a South Bend RT from Grizzly. Right? If so, that's discouraging because I've had my eye on a Grizzly 5" RT with more accessories than the law allows. Was just waiting for a need for it.
> 
> Tom



It was not the SB-branded RT. But had I purchased that instead, I am quite sure my conclusions about the design/build of the product would have been identical (I'm convinced they did not make it themselves) with the exception that Grizzly technical support and productization (the work and communication that offers and fulfills th product) is extraordinary. I *want* to do more business with companies/cultures exactly like theirs. I kept their tail stock which I clearly don't need now just out of respect for their good work and good attitude. There are two companies in this space I can recommend without the slightest hesitation... PM and Grizzly. I think you'll be pleased but investigate whether you will need to be repairing the threads on the worm before you commit. THAT is why I have not gone ahead with purchasing from them. Something where I've seen good reviews and talked to two very happy people in person is the 7506 table.. it's 1" larger... it's pricey... and I have the impression you cannot fit dividing plates to it but that is not said with any confidence in it. FYI.


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## Nogoingback (Jun 24, 2018)

extropic said:


> In the interest of getting some useful information out of your rant, exactly what grease did you buy and from what source?
> I like to keep reasonable assortment of lubricants on hand.



JetLube makes an open gear grease called OG-H  available in a tube.  I use it on the rack and gears of the lathe.


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## dlane (Jun 24, 2018)

In a simple sentence can you tell us what brand name RT your unhappy with.
Thanks


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## markba633csi (Jun 24, 2018)

Clock: If it's any consolation I too find it very hard to buy anything new these days.  I'd say a good 50% of things I purchase end up going back (except beer and pizza)
That's why I just bought a 55 year old Altas 12" lathe, and I'm just pleased as punch with that old thing.
Mark


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## ezduzit (Jun 24, 2018)

Are you embarrassed to disclose the brand of the RT?


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## Silverbullet (Jun 24, 2018)

He may not really know who made the rt. Most of he China stuff really no one knows the real manufacturer.


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## markba633csi (Jun 24, 2018)

Yes and brand names don't mean as much as they used to- the customer has to assume the role of quality control checker now, and often "rework department chief technician" plus "prototyping engineer"
I just returned a grease gun, made in India, without even testing it because the lever had razor sharp edges- if my hand had slipped when using it I would have been layed open like a fish. It was a (formerly good) name brand too. 
Mark


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## ezduzit (Jun 24, 2018)

Silverbullet said:


> He may not really know who made the rt. Most of he China stuff really no one knows the real manufacturer.



If of Chinese origin, then the OP got all he should have expected.


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## Silverbullet (Jun 24, 2018)

ezduzit said:


> If of Chinese origin, then the OP got all he should have expected.


In most areas like this hobby machinist just can not afford the really good brand name , but we expect a decent working tool . So I agree he got a bad one , but that's not always the same with every rotary table sold. I feel lucky getting my 10" RT from enco before they went under. I chose the precision model but there coupon brought it below the cheaper model. By looking at it I'd say it's a yuasa  brand.


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## ezduzit (Jun 24, 2018)

Silverbullet said:


> ...hobby machinist just can not afford the really good brand name...



The way I afford the good stuff is by buying used. Found this Troyke (13"?) rotary table on eBay for ~$450.


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## Silverbullet (Jun 24, 2018)

Yes I did the same thing only to have it stolen in the FedEx distribution center in north Jersey. Only it was  9 " trokye rotary table . It traveled half way a cross the USA to be missing fifty miles or so from me . I got my money back through eBay and PayPal . It was a great buy to , half what I paid for the new enco.


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## Clock work (Jun 25, 2018)

markba633csi said:


> Clock: If it's any consolation I too find it very hard to buy anything new these days.  I'd say a good 50% of things I purchase end up going back (except beer and pizza)
> That's why I just bought a 55 year old Altas 12" lathe, and I'm just pleased as punch with that old thing.
> Mark



I have been a long-term believer in "old stuff". I won't drone on yet again about something called the Lindy Effect as I already have once on this forum, but it does absolutely justify products/ideas that have been in service for a long time on a service life basis. The reasons why that works out as a strong truth of the universe though I believe are entirely separate from the auguring-in of standards and selectivity on both sides of the buyer/seller relationship. 

CW


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## Clock work (Jun 25, 2018)

ezduzit said:


> Are you embarrassed to disclose the brand of the RT?



You'd be embarrassed all day/every day if you were me too. Please sir... don't use your powerful persuasion techniques to force me to spill the beans. 

Of the thousands of reasons motivating why I had left it out here you might have chosen.. including me ACTUALLY writing down why above... in English... how does wondering if something embarrassed me make to the top of your list? That would be like me speculating that that someone is subtly endowed because they asked a stupid question. No cause-effect link to even go there. Look up Occam's Razor. It works. 

CW


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## ezduzit (Jun 25, 2018)

Clock work said:


> ...me ACTUALLY writing down why above... in English...



Perhaps your rant was less clear to others than you might have thought? Or just your writing style in seeking sympathy.


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## Clock work (Jun 25, 2018)

So you're trying to convince me that subtle endowment should be on the table. You win. I guess.


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## HMF (Jun 25, 2018)

Clock,

Not to criticize, but I suggest that you will have better results if you get to the point of your questions a bit faster. 
Guys, let's remember why we're here and cut him a little more slack. If you don't wanna read it, skip it.


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## hman (Jun 25, 2018)

We all have our own writing styles.


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## vtcnc (Jun 26, 2018)

Clock work said:


> I have been a long-term believer in "old stuff". I won't drone on yet again about something called the Lindy Effect as I already have once on this forum, but it does absolutely justify products/ideas that have been in service for a long time on a service life basis. The reasons why that works out as a strong truth of the universe though I believe are entirely separate from the auguring-in of standards and selectivity on both sides of the buyer/seller relationship.
> 
> CW


Ha! I like the reference here, but I think most of our old shop stuff is "built to last" because a certain type of individual values it and provides some additional longevity, not necessarily because of its inherent or original value. But I still like the reference to the Lindy Effect...it feels right to me despite the origin of the phrase.


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## BROCKWOOD (Sep 27, 2018)

Having just schooled myself on the algebraic measure of the Lindy Effect, I find the Op topic easier to grasp. I like Grizzly - but I like Harbor Freight too. When buying from outfits that deal in Chinesium, it is important to do your homework. One must realize that heavy, precision & repeatable are not so readily obtained from such sources. I have a 6" RT from Grizzly. It's OK & does what I need on my Grizzly combo lathe / mill. Because I don't expect accuracy or precision from it, it does not fail me. I gave away the tailstock without ever opening the box, so I have no feedback there. I have upgraded to a real mill & have dividing heads for that.  Worlds apart, really, the old American devises & what is affordable new.


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