# Inverter TIG machines



## Snag_one (Jul 4, 2013)

When every time I mention I do some welding I get asked if I can do aluminum , it makes me think it's time to buy a TIG machine ... and having looked around a lot at what's out there , I find that the inverter machines give more bang for the buck . I've been looking at an Everlast Power Tig 200DX , AC/DC/stick/TIG , and comes with almost everything needed for around 1200 bucks . Aside from helmets/gloves , which I already have , I'll need to purchase electrodes and a gas bottle . 
  I have yet to find a negative review , the only thing I've found is that some don't like the amps control on the foot pedal . Either this thing is the best idea since bar soap , or somebody has systematically removed all bad reviews ... so my question for the group is does anyone have experience with this or similar Everlast products , and are they really as great as it seems ?
 --
  Snag , wannabe TIG weldor


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## sniggler (Jul 4, 2013)

For tig welding aluminium you really want to have at least 250 amps ac and a water cooled tig torch. The heat travels so well what you are welding sucks heat away from the weld. i have an old miller dialarc 250 hf and maxed out it welds 1/4 material well. If you working with thin stuff thats probably decent.

The spool gun setup for a mig welder is less limiting. 

Bob


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## Ulma Doctor (Jul 4, 2013)

You may wish to ask yourself if tooling up to TIG weld aluminum is cost effective for you.
If you are doing a little here and a little there you may be money ahead to take the work to a shop.
But, if you think you can make money by offering aluminum welding as a service, you may wish to consider a larger capacity welder.
Possibly into the 300 amp range with High Frequency welding Aluminum with A/C power with pure Argon.
You can cheat a little for penetration by using an Argon/Helium mix , it runs a little hotter. but as a rule larger machines do larger work. Helium mix is more expensive than straight Argon.
weigh out how much you'll use it, vs. how much you wanna do it and jump in!
The foot pedal heat control is a little weird for some to get used to.
 it took me a while to stop thinking about it, that's when it clicked for me.
I find myself to this day still pushing a pedal with my right foot when welding, even if there isn't a pedal there. 
it must be amusing to watch, especially when i'm doing other processes.:lmao:

i hope the right welder finds you, whatever you decide!
$1200 bucks does sound mighty inviting though...:thinking:
mike)


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## Ray C (Jul 4, 2013)

I have an Everlast 250 multi-function (arc, plasma, TIG).  The machine itself is fine.  Not a lick of problems and I've had it a year with days of continuous use in the 180 Amp range.  No sweat.  The footpedals aren't the greatest.  The rheostat in them go bad.  I bought a 5k Ohm replacement, modified the method of attachment a little and it's fine.

Although it's a pretty advanced feature that most are not likely to use, the pulsed TIG works great in high frequency when working on thin aluminum.  Few other units have that feature.

Ray


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## sniggler (Jul 4, 2013)

I definitely agree with the idea of a multi-process inverter. I have never used helium or argon/helium but realize it changes the game on thickness you can weld a lower amperages. 

I love Miller and Lincoln and I really apreciate what Lincoln has done for welding education and that they still run a very strong education program Lincolns's Hand book of arc welding procedure is still the best welding book. Lincolns project books are great too.

That said the Chinese competition is very strong and the everlast is well reviewed you can not argue with that price.


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## Ray C (Jul 4, 2013)

Yes, the price is attractive and I think for low-production needs, it's decent quality.  I use it 1-2 times a week for little TIG jobs that take only 10 minutes but there are times when I use it all day almost non-stop.  It doesn't fade and behaves the same way all day long.  I've got a big job coming up.  It's a water and feed trough for a local goat farm.  All aluminum 5/16" plate.  It's going to be about 3 days of welding.  I mainly use straight argon but on thicker aluminum, like this job, I go with 10-15% helium.  I made my own mixing valves.  Very intense, pin-point heat due to the helium and you can zip right along.  The problem is, a 300 cuft tank of helium is going over 300 bucks now.  Argon is cheap at 60 bucks for 300 feet.  Filler rods are cheap.  Tungsten lasts a long time and so do shielding cups.  

Anyhow, if I had the space and money, I'd go with individual units and go with Big Blue or Red but, the cost stopped me dead in my tracks and I'm pinched for space.  This one is good enough and it serves my part-time-use needs.  I think a brand called "Longevity" is neck-and-neck with the Everlast but, when I bought mine, Everlast had a 5 year warranty and Longevity only 3 year.

And BTW, I'm self-taught.  I watched some videos from Jody Collier on weldingtipsandtricks .com, read a few books, picked up the torch and made beads on aluminum on the 1st try.  A couple days later, I welded-up an aluminum welding cart and when people see it, they ask how much I paid for it...  The point being, don't be scared-off by people saying its hard.  It's not -but, it is a little tough on my hands and wrists that have problems to start with.


Ray





sniggler said:


> I definitely agree with the idea of a multi-process inverter. I have never used helium or argon/helium but realize it changes the game on thickness you can weld a lower amperages.
> 
> I love Miller and Lincoln and I really apreciate what Lincoln has done for welding education and that they still run a very strong education program Lincolns's Hand book of arc welding procedure is still the best welding book. Lincolns project books are great too.
> 
> That said the Chinese competition is very strong and the everlast is well reviewed you can not argue with that price.


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## Uglydog (Jul 4, 2013)

Before investing. 
Carefully assess the power to your shop.
How big are the wires. 
I ran 6ga many years ago. 6ga limits me to 55 amp circuit.
TIG (GTAW) has a higher amp demand that MIG (GMAW) or Arc (SMAW).

At the time I found lots of new and used great deals on Blue 350 but would not have been able to power them, without a new run. 
I'm running a Red 225PT. I've been pleased with it. However, It's got a different feel than the Blue 250 and 350 at school. Not bad, just different. Very stiff arc!  
I've got great luck with aluminum. But, have thickness limits and Duty Cycle issues with big welds. But, I haven't messed with helium yet.
If I were starting new I'd take a serious look at HTP. http://www.usaweld.com/ Never used an HTP.
I've ordered alot of items from them. Great advice, great service, fair prices.
Does anybody here use yellow? ESAB is generally underrepresented!

However, first learn how much welder you can power. 

Daryl
MN


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## sniggler (Jul 4, 2013)

Ray

I taught myself to tig weld as well there was no internet then. If i had to weld 5/16 for production i would break out the spool gun and bang it out in 1/3 the time or less with decent cosmetics and equal structural properties. If i was the customer i would like you to tig weld it. But the speed really is night and day.

Bob


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## Rbeckett (Jul 4, 2013)

Snag,
To be fair you should probably take a look over at Welding Web at the negative press you mentioned you haven't seen or been able to find.  There is bad press out there, but it appears that they are doing a good job resolving most of the chronic issues and keeping a very large portion of their customers happier now than before.  A few years ago they were not considered a good investment for serious lack of quality issues.  They seem to have resolved most of them and continue to improve the product incrementally over time.  I don't endorse any particular type or brand machine any more, but used to bleed Miller Blue and Hypertherm Gray.  Now I don't really care as much, but I still require hypertherm for my CNC plasma table no matter what.  Hope this helps you find the info you are looking for.  And yes it was systematically removed for a while until the forum figured it out and put a stop to it by not allowing the manuf to have general access, only to their specific areas of the site.

Bob


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## Ray C (Jul 4, 2013)

LOL, I don't think the goats will notice but, I might get a good boot in the butt if they do...

This job is not something I'd normally do but, the guys that just installed my roof noticed my shop and asked if I could repair some of their equipment.  Little did I know they were going to call 3 more of their trucks to come by.  I pulled in a few Ben Franklins...  All easy stuff with no liability concerns.  The crew boss has a goat farm and wanted the troughs.  We worked a deal.  He tuckpointed my exterior fireplace chimney.  I paid his materials and he did the scaffold work and had a guy do it in a day.  He's paying me for the aluminum and I'll stick it together...  The 1.5 days is mostly for cutting the pieces and about 1 to 1.5 days to weld.  Fair enough.


Ray




sniggler said:


> Ray
> 
> I taught myself to tig weld as well there was no internet then. If i had to weld 5/16 for production i would break out the spool gun and bang it out in 1/3 the time or less with decent cosmetics and equal structural properties. If i was the customer i would like you to tig weld it. But the speed really is night and day.
> 
> Bob


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## Ed. (Jul 12, 2013)

I have the Everlast 256 4-1, 3 phase, and a 5 yr warranty,  it stopped plasma cutting after about 6 weeks, but the distributor went out of their way to help me, they picked it up at their cost and returned a new one to me as well also at their cost, within a week, about a 600 mile trip each way, prior to that, they asked me to open it up to test a few things to identify the problem which showed that there was a large resistor too close to the power bus which the HF cooked, as well as a couple of wires soldered to a joint on a circuit board had come off, a few blobs of adhesive which had dripped onto the exhaust fan which should have been cleaned off but weren't. So to sum up, I don't think that the quality control is 100% but the service from the Australian distributor is brilliant.  The water cooled torch developed a leak a few months later, and they sent me a new one at no expense and I didn't even have to return the old one.  This unit cost me about 5 times less than a Miller, I couldn't justify spending that amount of cash for a Miller with the small amount of use that I would use it for. The support service that I have had here in OZ is absolutely great, they even talked to me on the phone after hours and on the weekends as well. I can't even get an answer about the Miller MIG welder that I own from the Miller distributor here. A friend of mine also bought a 3 in one from them and he had a problem about 8 months later, he also had great service from them and they either replaced his unit or fixed it very quickly at no charge. So over here they look after their customers, but don't know what the service is like over your part of the world.

As for that welding site that was mentioned in an earlier post, I used to be a member but left because of a lot of very small minded ego tripping members and moderators who must spend a lot of time with their hands in their pockets, :whistle:. I only tolerate fools for a little time before my patience runs out, so I wouldn't take all that was said about this brand as totally true but you can make up your own mind about them. Nether the less, I don't think that this brand's welders quality is any better or worse than any other Chinese made unit, but the service from my point of view is great over here. Just my 2 cents worth!

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Ed.


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## sophijo (Jul 12, 2013)

Not an expert here, but what the hey; never stopped me before! As I understand it there are two kinds of inverters; the old style (MOSFET) and the latest (IGBT). The newer is better as far as I can tell. You may see some hot deals on inverter type welders and they may not mention that they are MOSFET.


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## Snag_one (Jul 18, 2013)

UPDATE!

  My Powertig 250EX shipped on Monday , is expected to arrive here tomorrow . I was told they have discontinued the 225 amp unit I wanted . This machine has AC/DC , HF start , variable AC freq/balance , pulse , 2T/4T up/downslope controls with start/end amps and time , pre- and post-flow , even has a timer for spot welding . Because I told the guy my budget was lower than their asking price , he tossed in a few additional items - upgraded regulator , etc . This unit comes with a water cooled torch , and when I asked about low-amp use w/out a cooler <not in my budget> , he tossed in a used air cooled unit . I also scored a tank from a neighbor for a c-note - and it's full ! We're not certain what it's full of , but tests with my MIG suggest it's probably argon . Label says C25 , and while it doesn't weld like C25 or CO2 , but it's definitely an inert gas . Hey , even if it ain't argon , the tank alone is worth the price . I'll be starting a new thread detailing my experiences when the machine arrives , but until then ...


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## Ed. (Jul 18, 2013)

Hey Snag_one, you should like your new machine, that is the model that my friend bought, and apart from the one time his played up and got replaced, he hasn't had any other dramas and is happy with his, mine is the Powerpro 256, 3 phase and apart from the plasma cutter yours I think has the same functions. I rarely use the plasma cutter on mine so if the 256 model wasn't available I would have bought the same model as you did, although the plasma cutter has come in handy on a couple of times that I needed it. The thickest metal I have welded with mine was 3/8 stainless when I made a couple of boat anchors with it, and didn't even have it cranked up all the way.  At the end of the day you have a 5 year warranty with it, so any issues and they should cover it.

I get all my consumables at a good price from this guy on eBay and haven't had any problems with their quality. 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/28pcs-WP...10437481552?pt=AU_Welding&hash=item4847840c50.

You will still need a bottle of pure Argon or Argon/Helium for it and you can still use that bottle of gas you got for your MIG. I generally use 2% Lanthanated rods for nearly all that I TIG and they seem to last well.

Enjoy the new welder!

Cheers

Ed.


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## TOOLMASTER (Jul 18, 2013)

never say yes, or the next question is "will you teach me"


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## Snag_one (Jul 20, 2013)

Ed. said:


> Hey Snag_one, you should like your new machine, that is the model that my friend bought, and apart from the one time his played up and got replaced, he hasn't had any other dramas and is happy with his, mine is the Powerpro 256, 3 phase and apart from the plasma cutter yours I think has the same functions. I rarely use the plasma cutter on mine so if the 256 model wasn't available I would have bought the same model as you did, although the plasma cutter has come in handy on a couple of times that I needed it. The thickest metal I have welded with mine was 3/8 stainless when I made a couple of boat anchors with it, and didn't even have it cranked up all the way.  At the end of the day you have a 5 year warranty with it, so any issues and they should cover it.
> 
> I get all my consumables at a good price from this guy on eBay and haven't had any problems with their quality.
> 
> ...




  My Everlast 250EX came at about 5PM . By ten I had successfully butt welded a piece of 1/8" X 2" leg aluminum angle back together . Welds look like crap , but there's 50% penetration  and I'm as happy as a Murff .  On the argon thing , I must be blessed . A neighbor had a tank <tall one , abt 5' tall> that was supposed to contain C25 . Problem is it welded like sheet with the MIG and they didn't know for sure what it was . It works just fine with the new welder ... pretty much gotta be argon . And I got the bottle and contents for 70 bucks`and a used O2 reg . I still need a few odds-n-ends , like gloves , but right now I can get by with the welding gloves I have . Got a brandynew pair of the HF 3fer gloves , bet if I tore out the liner they'd be just right . 
  And the best part is that my wife blessed the purchase . Her opinion is that if it will enhance my capabilities to make money , go for it . Too many people have asked me if I weld aluminum . Now I can honestly say yes . Might not be pretty ...
 --
 Snag


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## PlasmaOnTheBrain (Jul 22, 2013)

Ok, I've had a few beers and haven't read through every reply....

Inverters On Aluminum are the way to go. variable freq, independant amps for positive and negitave... its the cats meow. If you have a nice shiny clean piece of whatever grade of alum.... kick the balance over 80% negative and half to a quarter of the amps you are running on the positive side... and marvel at the point on your finely ground tungesten... With the same control as if you were on DC En.
Or if you have some filthy oil soaked salt water bathed casting that your buddy dragged in with a crack... ramp the positive side cleaning up as high as you size tungsten  can handle and burn it on in...
Its all about control. Do you want it over your aluminum? 
Hell I've heard tale of running high end super alloys on a wildly unbalenced AC current to knock away oxides the same way it does on Al... 90+% Dc En and around 5 to 10 amps on the Dc Ep side with as high as a frequency as the machine can produdce.... All the wonders you can have with an inverter...

All that and it will only pull 30 to 40 amps at 220volt single phase out of the wall... if not less.  Stack that up to a big Syncrowave at full bore which is pulling 100+ amps from the wall at 3 phase.
is it worth the money? How much Aluminum do you weld and how well do you want it to come out?
Most inverters have pulse functions which make life way to easy for some joints/mateirals...

Right, Im done rambiling, forgive my spelling have a good night


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## sniggler (Jul 23, 2013)

Plasmaonthebrain,

Cheers on the beers, your comments are spot on. Controlling cleaning/penetration cycles by adjusting the ratio of -/+ and adding adjustable pulse has changed the game. 

I am guilty of old school thinking on this subject when i close my mind and think i know what's going on all the time i put myself a disadvantage by becoming unteachable. 

Researching around i came up with this link from miller http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/Pulsed-MIG-TIG-Ideal-for-Thin-Gauge-Alloys-GMAW-GTAW.

Your clear real world explanation is very valuable focusing on the advantages of inverters, the controls they have and that they don't spin the meter too bad. Thanks

Bob


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