# New Toy, er Tool



## JimDawson (Oct 3, 2017)

My son designed a product for pickup mounted campers and there are quite a few parts that need to be done on a CNC lathe. So we have been looking for a slant bed CNC lathe and I thought we were going to buy an EMCO 242 but it was not to be.  So in my continuing search I ran across a Hardinge Conquest 42 that met our criteria.  Pulled the trigger on it today.  The truck is packed up and I'm ready to pull out to get it just as soon as I can lay my hands on the trailer I need, in the morning I hope.

Here is a picture of it, not much to look at.  Hydraulic chuck/collet, 10 station turret, live tooling, tool holders.  Per the seller, was working fine when pulled out of service a year ago.  Confirmed that it powers up and runs.




The live tooling



And a shot of the turret



And a video of one just like it making a part






Now we just need to learn how to use it. 

I'll keep you updated.


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## Aukai (Oct 3, 2017)

That's a beast


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## kd4gij (Oct 3, 2017)

Nice.


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## brino (Oct 3, 2017)

JimDawson said:


> Now we just need to learn how to use it.



Jim, 

With what we have already seen of your skill set, I am sure the learning curve will not be too steep for you. 
Congratulations on the "new" tool. 

-brino


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## FOMOGO (Oct 3, 2017)

Very nice machine, and video Jim. Starting with Delrin/Nylon, etc. should give you a feel for the machine and the program. Seems that alum. and steel will sharpen the learning curve, as I'm sure you know. Just out if curiosity, if you don't mind, what does something like that go for? Thanks, Mike


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## JimDawson (Oct 3, 2017)

FOMOGO said:


> Very nice machine, and video Jim. Starting with Delrin/Nylon, etc. should give you a feel for the machine and the program. Seems that alum. and steel will sharpen the learning curve, as I'm sure you know. Just out if curiosity, if you don't mind, what does something like that go for? Thanks, Mike



They are kind of all over the map on price.  They seem to run about $8K to $10K.  Most don't have the live tool option installed.  I picked this one up for <$10K


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## hman (Oct 4, 2017)

brino said:


> With what we have already seen of your skill set, I am sure the learning curve will not be too steep for you.


Brino -
After I saw your post, I happened to look down at equipment listed in Jim's sig line block.  Just looking at what's there, I get the feeling the learning curve won't be steep at all.  Should be "duck soup."

Congratulations, Jim!


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## Silverbullet (Oct 4, 2017)

Good luck, always was a top shelf machine. Hardinage made or makes some of the best wish I could find an old tool room model.


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## JimDawson (Oct 4, 2017)

Silverbullet said:


> Good luck, always was a top shelf machine. Hardinage made or makes some of the best wish I could find an old tool room model.



I would love to have a HLV-H.  I really don't need one.....but.......


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## Wreck™Wreck (Oct 4, 2017)

Fanuc control?


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## JimDawson (Oct 4, 2017)

Wreck™Wreck said:


> Fanuc control?


Yup, Fanuc OT.

It may get a DC_CNC control in the not too distant future.  Just depends on how I like the Fanuc control and if it has the capabilities I want.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Oct 4, 2017)

That should have all of the capabilities that you might need I suspect, reading the manual is a different game.
3 axis or do the live tools move in a 4th?


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## JimDawson (Oct 4, 2017)

It's a 3 axis.


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## Fallriverbryan (Oct 4, 2017)

Hey. I know a guy that would love to learn what he can about the Fanuc OT lathe control.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/index.php?threads/62021/



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## JimDawson (Oct 4, 2017)

Fallriverbryan said:


> Hey. I know a guy that would love to learn what he can about the Fanuc OT lathe control.
> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/index.php?threads/62021/
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



When I get it figured out I'll give you the Readers Digest version, that could take years.  If it gets too complicated, I may just hang my own controls on it.  A day or two to install the controls and a couple weeks of software debug.  Need a lathe test bed for my software anyway.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Oct 4, 2017)

You should enjoy the flexibility of such a machine, I suspect that you will begin to wonder how you got by without a C axis and live tooling in the past.


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## JimDawson (Oct 4, 2017)

Wreck™Wreck said:


> You should enjoy the flexibility of such a machine, I suspect that you will begin to wonder how you got by without a C axis and live tooling in the past.



I may be wondering how I have gotten along without a CNC lathe at all.  I have never actually even seen one run except in videos.


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## Firestopper (Oct 4, 2017)

Jim,
cant wait to see more of your creative ingenuity once you get her home and running. Best of luck on the road and do keep us posted.
Paco


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## JimDawson (Oct 4, 2017)

Thank you Paco


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## T Bredehoft (Oct 4, 2017)

One of the tools we used in production involved a a rather short metric (about 3/8 diameter) screw connecting two pieces. One of the pieces was constantly breaking, so we in the tool room started making them, (this was in the early  1990s in Ohio) Rather than putting a metric thread in the new part we put SAE threads in the new piece and made a combination metric/SAE connector. We had a Mazak lathe about the size Jim just acquired. I made about a hundred screws, 3/8 24 on one end and metric whatever on the other .560 long, one setup, cut off, finished. They were still using them when I left in 2000. I can't remember just what the thing was, it was surely cobbled together.


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## brino (Oct 4, 2017)

T Bredehoft said:


> I can't remember just what the thing was, it was surely cobbled together.



Maybe, but you do what you gotta do to get thru the pinch.
-brino


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## JimDawson (Oct 6, 2017)

A little update.  I'm still waiting for a trailer, I should be on my way back by now.  The trailer I need was supposed to be back to the rental shop last Monday and rental shop can't get ahold of the renter.  They have another trailer that is supposed to be back this coming Sunday, so hopefully I'll be out of here Monday morning.

I am surprised that there are only two of those trailers in the entire area. There are a half dozen heavy equipment rental places here and none of the others have a trailer like I want.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Oct 6, 2017)

You will enjoy the machine, lathe parts are easier to program then mill parts, you always know exactly where the center is (-:   You mentioned having little lathe experience, with such a stout machine do not be afraid to use large DOC's and feed rates until the chip breaks, if the chips get out of control it will ruin your day or more, feed over ride is your friend.

If the live tooling is not a 4th axis of movement these opps will be as simple as programming a 2 axis mill, as a disclaimer I have never programmed a lathe with a C axis aside from threading but must assume it is merely moves from zero in the rotational axis.
By it's age it may be 2.5 d so you will learn a good deal about Plane Selection.

Good Luck, I look forward to your immersion into Fanuc controls.


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## JimDawson (Oct 13, 2017)

Well lookie what followed me home 



A beautiful day in Oklahoma.



And all wrapped up and ready to go to its new home



A few statistics:

Round trip miles: 3416
Total trip hours: 96:00 (I pulled out at 13:30 Monday, pulled into my driveway at 13:30 Friday)
Driving hours: 61:42
Fuel used: 239 gal  (about $717, pretty close to my estimate of $700)
I can't figure out why diesel is so much more expensive than gas everywhere but Oregon.
GVW: 21,200 lbs (about 2500 lb overload for my truck)  About 10,200 lb of machine.
Could use another 100 HP, 325 HP is just a little light for that load, and *much* bigger brakes 
Overall it cost about the same amount as having it shipped, but this way I had full control over everything and it was handled with love all the way. 

I learned that I don't ever want to be a long haul trucker.  I have a lot of respect for those guys and gals.

I'll get it unloaded tomorrow or Sunday, I need a nap now 

More pictures to follow.............


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## brino (Oct 13, 2017)

Congratulations Jim!



JimDawson said:


> I pulled out at 13:30 Monday, pulled into my driveway at 13:30 Friday


That's a week well invested.

-brino


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## JimDawson (Oct 13, 2017)

brino said:


> Congratulations Jim!
> 
> 
> That's a week well invested.
> ...



I hope so.  Should be fun to learn how to use it.  The first project will be to get it running on single phase.  Need to study the system a bit before I decide on the best way to power it up.


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## Firestopper (Oct 13, 2017)

Welcome home Jim, glad everything went well for you. Thats a beast and capable of producing some killer work.
Looking forward to seeing it in action.


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## countryguy (Oct 13, 2017)

CONGRATS JD!   What year is on the badge?  or did I miss that in the posts? 
Hey,  I can monitor and see where this goes for sure!!! we've been interested in something along these lines   10K or under.  I sort of fell in luv w/ the Doosan Lynx 220 but they seem about 2x that.     Looking forward to this one!


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## Wreck™Wreck (Oct 13, 2017)

Looks like a nice enclosure that should keep the coolant where you want it. When that CRT display fails just plug the display output into a generic flat screen monitor and place it on top of the machine, we have 2 Bridgeport lathes with 20" diagonal flat screen color monitors, no tool manufacturer would have dreamed of such a thing in 1998, I am sure that you know this very well.

As far as running it on single phase good luck. if the axes drives are DC this may present less of a challenge but one never knows with Hardinge.


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## JimDawson (Oct 13, 2017)

countryguy said:


> CONGRATS JD!   What year is on the badge?  or did I miss that in the posts?
> Hey,  I can monitor and see where this goes for sure!!! we've been interested in something along these lines   10K or under.  I sort of fell in luv w/ the Doosan Lynx 220 but they seem about 2x that.     Looking forward to this one!



I'm not sure what year it is, '98 or '99 I think, I'll have to look.

There are quite a number of lathes in this size range available.  $8-$12K range, there are also machines that are all over the map on price.  What is unusual about this particular one is the live tooling.  It was an expensive option.  And this one came with the live tool holders.  So picking this one up for <$10K made it pretty much a unicorn machine.

If you don't need a live tooling then there are a lot of machines available.  Depends on what spindle hole size you need.  



Wreck™Wreck said:


> Looks like a nice enclosure that should keep the coolant where you want it. When that CRT display fails just plug the display output into a generic flat screen monitor and place it on top of the machine, we have 2 Bridgeport lathes with 20" diagonal flat screen color monitors, no tool manufacturer would have dreamed of such a thing in 1998, I am sure that you know this very well.
> 
> As far as running it on single phase good luck. if the axes drives are DC this may present less of a challenge but one never knows with Hardinge.



Thanks for the monitor tip.

The axes and spindle are all Fanuc DC servos.  The hydraulic pump and coolant pump are 3 phase.  We'll see what makes the most sense.


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## JimDawson (Oct 14, 2017)

countryguy said:


> CONGRATS JD!   What year is on the badge?



Looked at it today, 1989, A bit older than I thought

And a few more pictures

All unwrapped and ready to offload



Forklift tire needs a little air.  10,200 lb on a 8,500 rated lb forklift.  Didn't even grunt, picked it right up.  Just lifted it up, pulled the trailer out and set the lathe down to air up the tires



The pucker factor was high at this point 



Well, it's inside the shop.  Now we just need to figure out where we want it.  Going to be somewhere around where my son is standing (on the  right)  We cleaned out a big hole in that area, but still trying to figure out exactly the correct position.  For now we just moved it closer to it's final position and sat it down.  Need to leave enough clear area to get a truck in the door.  I think we need a bigger shop.

We made four 6 x 12 x 3/4 steel pads to set the feet on, need to spread the load on the floor a bit.  This lathe has four really nice jack screws for feet and proper fork pockets for handling.  Makes installation much easier.




Over the next week I plan on getting it powered up.  I need to study the schematics to see if I can make it run on single phase.  The drives are all DC servos so there is a good chance I can pull that off.  Three small VFDs will run the hydraulic pump and coolant pumps.


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## Bobbycoke (Oct 15, 2017)

TOY or TOOL I am a nubie here but want to express my hate of the calling of our tools "toys" I feel a toy is something that gives you pleasure  but is otherwise useless .......where as a tool gives us pleasure [wheither looking at it or using it] but it can make or repair something.......maybe it's just personal when my lovely wife says "oh rob just got a new toy" the hair goes up on the back of my neck , of course I say "Yes Dear" happy wife=happy life............49 years of marriage ..........must be doing something right!........bobbycoke


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## brino (Oct 15, 2017)

JimDawson said:


> I think we need a bigger shop.



Really? 
I've never heard that mentioned by anyone here before! 
	

		
			
		

		
	




-brino


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## Wreck™Wreck (Oct 16, 2017)

I glanced at the manual, it appears to have CSS as a standard software feature which you will truly appreciate down the road.
Appears to have the typical canned cycles which make programming simple parts a breeze.

This little piece of advice from the manual is precious.


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## T Bredehoft (Oct 16, 2017)

My shop is full of toys, they give me pleasure, just sitting there, (no value, whatever) and when I'm running them. I make nothing I sell, so there's no profit in running them, other than the satisfaction I get from being constructive.


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## JimDawson (Oct 16, 2017)

Well I was wrong on the servos, turns out they are AC servos, so my single phase idea is not so good.  Time for a RPC.

I just happen to have a couple of 15 HP air compressors sitting here that are brain dead, but the motors should be fine.  So one of the motors is going to become a RPC.

I'll get the motor extracted from the pump and be off and running. Be making chips sooner than I thought.


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## JimDawson (Nov 22, 2017)

IT'S ALIVE !!!!!!!!!!

I haven't updated this thread for over a month because we haven't had any power to the machine.  I've been fighting with a rotary phase converter, have a new motor in route.  Nothing has gone right with that project.   http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/another-rotary-phase-converter.63204/#post-520986

So we rented a 25 KW, 3 phase generator to power up the lathe.  Got everything connected, checked out the voltage and flipped the 100 amp main breaker on the lathe......... Which immediately tripped.    No sparks or smoke, just a tripped breaker.  So grab the multimeter and check for shorts, everything looked fine.  I thought a transformer was shorted, but that turned out not to be the case.

Of course I don't have any detailed schematics of the electrical system so spent a day tracing wires.  It turns out that the lathe has a safety system that I have never seen before.  The door safety switch is wired into an auxiliary trip on the main breaker, so if the switch is not open, power can flow to the aux trip, and instantly trips the breaker.  It took a few hours to figure that one out.

But the lathe is alive and well and all of the parts seem to move as they should.  No nasty noises.  So now we just need to learn how to use it, we have two large binders of instructions to wade through.  

So this weekend we'll get the machine in it's final position and play with the controls to at least get some understanding of how it all works.  Hopefully the RPC will be up and running in a week or so.  I was able to get some current readings on the lathe, and it looks like the 15 HP RPC will be just fine, proabaly could have gone with a 10 HP.  For the most part it is drawing about 7.5 amps with the spindle running unloaded.  Max reading I saw was 28 amps on spindle acceleration 0 to 3000 RPM, and the spindle load meter was reading 150% during accel.  We're not going to be working the machine very hard, so we should be in good shape.

Hopefully in the near future I'll be able to post some pictures or a video in operation.
.
.
.


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## Boswell (Nov 22, 2017)

Great News Jim !


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## Firestopper (Nov 23, 2017)

Congratulations Jim, at least you know the machine works. Looking forward to seeing some positive progress.
Turn and burn!
Paco


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## T Bredehoft (Nov 23, 2017)

Jim, you're makin' me wish I was in Oregon so I could help you play.  Alas, I'll watch you and be happy.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Nov 24, 2017)

Many machines also have powered door locks, a solenoid locks the door shut when the machine is on. If you have it running and can not open an access door this is likely the reason.


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## JimDawson (Nov 26, 2017)

Made a little progress.  We go the machine moved into it's final position.  Had to rent some machinery skates to move it the last couple of feet.  No room to get the forklift in there and didn't have any pipes to put under it.  Using a couple port-a-power pucks we were able to lift it to get the skates in the forklift pockets and pinch it over the last little bit.  Got it leveled and almost ready to make chips.

My son has been learning how the controls work and was able to make an air cut.  It didn't crash the machine so life is good.  He ran a few test ''cuts'' at dead slow speed until he was satisfied the everything was OK, then cranked it up to operating speed.  A bit scary to watch it run.  One minor problem is the high pressure coolant pump, it's stuck.  But that's a minor issue, easy to fix.

This represents a face off, turn OD, change tool, make a small profile cut, part off.  Then index again, grab the bar in the chuck, pull it out to stage for the next part.  Maybe next time we'll use real tool holders rather than plastic blocks representing tool holders.


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## brino (Nov 27, 2017)

JimDawson said:


> Maybe next time we'll use real tool holders rather than plastic blocks representing tool holders.



Yup, it's smart to do baby step until the machine and the operators know what the other will do.
Great progress, you will be cranking out parts real soon.
Congrats!
-brino


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## Wreck™Wreck (Nov 27, 2017)

Do not be afraid to push such a lathe way harder then you think prudent from past experience, that is a robust machine well beyond what hobbyists are accustomed to. I wish that I had such a machine today, ran 25 aluminum parts in a Bridgeport/Romi 2 axis lathe, 7" X 3 1/4" long saw cuts ending in 70% metal removal, the chips were nearly unmanagable.

Set it up and let it eat, you will not be disappointed.


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## Firestopper (Nov 27, 2017)

Bit#hin'!!!!


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## Wreck™Wreck (Dec 1, 2017)

Take this for what it is worth, the guy that services our machines was in to replace a brushed DC servo motor in a lathe this week. 
His belief is that leaving  the motors holding position when not in use, during lunch for instance,  will shorten their life as they are under power yet not rotating. He recommends E-Stopping the machines when not in use yet powered up, (not having just paused a running program of course) this does make sense  for there is no reason to have it hold position if not required, would also reduce electric usage.

However I do not know if an E-Stop will disable the drives in all machines as it does in this one, you may want to check if it does on that Hardinge.


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## JimDawson (Dec 1, 2017)

I'll check that out, thank you.


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## JimDawson (Dec 26, 2017)

And another update.  We finally got the lathe powered up off of the RPC.  That was about a 3 day job to get it wired in.  Started off with replacing the shop breaker panel.  After looking at things we decided that there weren't spaces available so we went from a 16 circuit to a 24 circuit panel.  Made life easier.

So here is the lathe



We put the RCP motor up on the shelf to get it out of the way.



And the RCP control panel



I'm pleased with the voltage balance. 239 (incoming), 237, 239, 236.  Incoming power is running 1.4KW with the lathe powered up and the spindle running unloaded.  Max system load seems to be about 9.5KW with the spindle at 150% power on accel.  What I find a bit odd is the incoming power is 11.8 amps, but the 3 legs of the 3 phase are right around 20 amps.  I guess the PF correction is doing its job, glad I added that.  The incoming power reads about 25 amps with the PF correction out of the circuit.  These numbers verified by my Fluke clamp on.  Everything seems to run OK.  




Now comes the real fun, the insert holders will be here tomorrow.  We'll be making the first chips.


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## JimDawson (Dec 31, 2017)

FIRST CHIPS!  Ya gotta start somewhere 



View media item 97302


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## T Bredehoft (Dec 31, 2017)

Jim I'm afraid you're gonna turn into a turning junkie, looking for all the jobs you can take on with that spinning device. I wouldn't blame you a bit. I wish...well no, I don't but it sure would be fun. I made twenty nose bushings for a rubber band aircraft today, stock 6160 alum 3/8 OD, .530 long, drilled though .0635, nose od .130, .500 long, cut off.  Two minutes a piece.  With your machine they'd be done in less that the time it took me to set up a turret lathe.


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## brino (Dec 31, 2017)

Jim, I bet you and your son are just dreaming of the parts you'll be able to produce on that.
Great progress!
-brino


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## Firestopper (Dec 31, 2017)

Hard work pays off, hats off man.


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## TomS (Dec 31, 2017)

Very cool!


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## JimDawson (Dec 31, 2017)

brino said:


> Jim, I bet you and your son are just dreaming of the parts you'll be able to produce on that.
> Great progress!
> -brino



We have one part in particular that takes about 40 minutes on a manual lathe primarily because of tool changes and setup, we figure about 4 minutes on this one.

Also one of my customers is having some trouble manually producing a part, this lathe would be perfect for that part also.  I think it would run about 100 parts/hr, at about a buck apiece.  They normally run about 1000 at a time.   I'll be talking to him again next week.


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