# Removing old cosmoline from a lathe



## xnaron (Feb 1, 2020)

I was lucky and found a really good deal on a 12x28 (actually an 11x27) late last night.  I jumped on it and got it home today.  I just bought a new 10x22 lathe and will be putting that one up for sale to make room for this one.

It looks like the previous owner did not properly remove the rust protector (cosmoline?) from it.  There is some on the ways and the painted surfaces.  I tried soaking it with wd40 and got some off but it is pretty hardened especially on the painted surfaces.  I need to be careful not to remove any paint so not sure what some safe effective solvents may be.  Any suggestions on getting this stubborn stuff off would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Brendin


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## eugene13 (Feb 1, 2020)

Try mineral spirits, cosmoline needs a solvent, it also melts with hot water, but....


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## Cadillac (Feb 1, 2020)

Razor blade to get the bulk off and then try your wd40 or something that will break down a wax.


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## RJSakowski (Feb 1, 2020)

Mineral spirits on the painted surfaces and WD 40 for the tough stuff on the bare metal.


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## graham-xrf (Feb 1, 2020)

Nice looking machine Brendin.

Quite a lot that follows will depend on the paint used on the machine, but suppose we assume that simply because it is on a lathe, it will at least be somewhat resistant to oils, and fluids it might encounter.

Cosmoline is a petroleum based brown wax. That means it will come off with kerosene or mineral spirit, and could even just wipe away with rubbing alcohol. WD40 is actually mostly kerosene along with something like floor polish that remains when the paraffin has evaporated. Use it if you don't happen to have kerosene. It did not harm the paint I tried it on here.

Straight alcohol with IPA (rubbing alcohol) cuts through the waxy stuff. You can go all the way up to gasoline without too much risk to the paint. Usually, kerosene, followed by a wipe with the alcohol to remove the oily residue works. The alcohols will not hurt paint. Methylated spirit (denatured alcohol colored purple) has never hurt any paint I have tried it on. Nor has IPA, nor what you would call "rubbing alcohol".

One would think that mineral spirit, known as "white spirit" here in the UK should be a risk to the paint, after all, it is used for cleaning paint brushes. I find it not so on fully dried cured paint!

Given that I happen to have all this stuff right here,  I am aggressively and deliberately trying to hurt some paint surfaces, and it is not happening! (Not to worry, wrong color anyway - another story - don't ask)!

*Various tests.*
1. Mineral spirit on grey primer only manages to mark the white paper towel with a smidgen from the matt surface. The paint stays put. The spirit cuts through dried Waxoyl, and dried WD40

2. The 1K alkyd synthetic paint as purchased for painting lathe, resisted the mineral spirit (as it should).

3. Acetone cuts through the wax, but also hurt the paint. I tried some right here. It also does something to the surfaces of any vinyl plastic it touches. Do not use acetone solvent!

4. Auto rattle-can paint seems to resist everything except acetone and toluene.

Try some kerosene, or gasoline on a small test area. If you can shift the cosmoline, then immediately be kind to the paint by removing the residue with a gentle alcohol wipe, and it should work just fine. You might even go some way to protecting it by re-waxing it with car polish after.

I am not sure - but all logic suggests that a car brake parts cleaner can should shift petroleum based stuff without hurting paint.


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## xnaron (Feb 1, 2020)

Thank you for the excellent suggestions. I think the previous owner thought the cosmoline was "factory grease".  It's too bad he didn't clean it properly.  I've got the bed pretty clean.  I'm working on cleaning the tail stock, cross slide and the compound rest.  Mineral spirits and wd 40 are a tough go.  Since I had the back splash guard off the machine I tried hot water (won't try that anywhere on the machine though  ).  It worked a lot faster but was still a lot of work and left a little residue.  I'll try some gas tomorrow.

I changed all the fluids and lubed the gears with some non slinging grease.  I'm just happy that there were fluids.  I've tested it and everything is functioning with the gears and all the settings work.  Motor runs well and after the bearings heat up I get about 830rpm in low gear.  It's listed as 850rpm but I know from previous experience that often these machines don't hit there max speed.  This machine has a 1.5hp motor vs the 1hp in my 10x22 lathe.  I think I should have no problem with aluminum in high gear if I need more rpm.


Here are some progress pictures.












Here you can see some stains on the chuck.  Will try gas tomorrow






Much cleaner but will try some gas tomorrow for the stubborn stains





Here are some really tough stains.  Not sure if gas will work but will try tomorrow.


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## mikey (Feb 1, 2020)

Hmm, gas presents a significant fire hazard. WD-40 plus a Scotchbrite extra-fine gray pad usually gets stuff off the metal surfaces. I agree with the mineral spirits or kerosene for painted surfaces. 3M adhesive remover works pretty good for stubborn waxy substances. In a pinch, I've used a heat gun to gently warm surfaces before cleaning and that helps. But I have not tried gas.


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## MontanaLon (Feb 1, 2020)

For machined surfaces, carb cleaner is the best way to get off cosmoline that has turned to varnish. It will eat the paint right off though so take care around anything you want to remain painted.  It is also significantly safer than gasoline. 

It is unfortunate the manufacturers find it necessary to use a product that is such a pain to remove but it does work like nothing else to keep stuff from rusting. I've seen some NOS stuff that was coated 50 years ago without a speck of rust on it. Of course, removing it then takes a complete disassembly and soaking and enough rags to make sails for a 3 masted schooner.


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## xnaron (Feb 1, 2020)

MontanaLon said:


> For machined surfaces, carb cleaner is the best way to get off cosmoline that has turned to varnish. It will eat the paint right off though so take care around anything you want to remain painted.  It is also significantly safer than gasoline.
> 
> It is unfortunate the manufacturers find it necessary to use a product that is such a pain to remove but it does work like nothing else to keep stuff from rusting. I've seen some NOS stuff that was coated 50 years ago without a speck of rust on it. Of course, removing it then takes a complete disassembly and soaking and enough rags to make sails for a 3 masted schooner.



I'll have to check if I have any kicking around.  I should be ok to use some gasoline as the machine is right at the front of my garage door and I can open it completely when using it.  I'll also try the other a gray scotchbrite pad as mentioned above.


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## SLK001 (Feb 1, 2020)

If you're not comforable with using straight gasoline, you might try diesel - or even naptha.


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## SLK001 (Feb 1, 2020)

xnaron said:


> I'll also try the other a gray scotchbrite pad as mentioned above.




The scotchbright will scratch the paint AND the metal - it contains an abrasive, so do NOT use it.  Go solvent only.


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## mikey (Feb 1, 2020)

Extra-fine gray Scothbrite is equivalent to 000 steel wool. Surfaces but doesn't remove metal.


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## SLK001 (Feb 1, 2020)

Home Depot sells a charcoal starter fluid called "Embers" for about $3 a quart.  It is very low odor.  I use it to remove labels and their glue from plastic.  It would work wonderfully for you.


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## Downunder Bob (Feb 2, 2020)

SLK001 said:


> If you're not comforable with using straight gasoline, you might try diesel - or even naptha.


Be careful using naphtha as a solvent, very similar to gas (petrol) It is also more toxic than gas if you breathe it, and very bad for skin contact.


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## graham-xrf (Feb 2, 2020)

If you want to avoid the hazards, and solvents altogether, and happen to have one of these low-cost steam cleaners intended for kitchen floors, bathrooms, and much else, I can attest that they do work. The heat melts and cuts through wax, and all.








I used only water, but it is known to add some detergent. I hardly think it is ever needed.
In the pictures,  I happen to be blasting away, intent on getting at the metal, and I had already put on (several) paint stripper attacks. BUT - the normal painted stuff I tried it on just got clean. I wiped away the shifted stuff as I went with an old sponge. It does not strip undamaged paint. You can go as gentle as you like, and greases and waxes just melt away.

Even though I happen to have available just about every nasty solvent known, I need to use a respirator because I am sensitive to the vapors. Steam cleaner instead is noisy, but effective. If you happen to steam clean any metal, re-oil it straight through the water before it dries and air oxygen gets at it. There is no surface so ready to start rusting as a freshly steam-cleaned hot metal.

These are $50-$70 -ish things. If you want to do this, look for at least 1400Watts. 1500Watts is better, and try for something like 350ml water reservoir. Mine was eBay, originally for other household cleaning before I hijacked it into machine cleaning.


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## xnaron (Feb 2, 2020)

graham-xrf said:


> If you want to avoid the hazards, and solvents altogether, and happen to have one of these low-cost steam cleaners intended for kitchen floors, bathrooms, and much else, I can attest that they do work. The heat melts and cuts through wax, and all.



That is a way better approach then using the hot water from a kettle that I tried on the splash guard.


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## Latinrascalrg1 (Feb 2, 2020)

A cheap heat gun and a roll or 3 of some paper towel will remove 99% of the cosmoline without using anything that could blow up or accelerate a fire.  Just remember to keep the heat moving so you dont overheat any one spot and also most importantly to be sure you properly dispose the oil soaked paper towel into a fireproof container do there is no overnight shop fire happening! Have fun.


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## Reddinr (Feb 2, 2020)

My dad, a WWII vet, said they used gasoline to clean the cosmoline off of new rifles, etc.  He referred to cosmoline as "monkey dung" and also hated the stuff.  It seems to be a problem for the ages.  I'm not recommending gas though.


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## xnaron (Feb 2, 2020)

The gas worked really well to remove the varnished cosmoline.  I used it with the garage door open and disposed of the rags outside in a garbage bag.




The previous owner has the lathe mounted on these rubber pads.  It doesn't seem like a good idea to me.  I left it like that for now while I clean things up.


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## mikey (Feb 2, 2020)

Came out nice. I was just curious - did your lathe come with a set of change gears?


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## xnaron (Feb 2, 2020)

mikey said:


> Came out nice. I was just curious - did your lathe come with a set of change gears?



Yes it had all the accessories with it.


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## mikey (Feb 2, 2020)

Excellent! That's a nice step up from a 10" lathe - congrats!


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## Latinrascalrg1 (Feb 2, 2020)

mikey said:


> Came out nice. I was just curious - did your lathe come with a set of change gears?


Ok im confused so I have another Rookie question (yeah I know, AGAIN!) Aren't change gears something you need for a lathe Without a qcgb? Doesn't the lathe in the picture have a quick change gearbox on it?


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## xnaron (Feb 2, 2020)

The previous owner made the stand 10" taller than a stock stand.  I did some turning on it today and I think it is a little taller than I'd like (i am 6ft tall).  I could take the wheels off and that would drop it 4 or 5".  I'll keep an eye for the stock stand to go on sale and maybe ditch this one.


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## DavidR8 (Feb 2, 2020)

Well done on the your new lathe!

I dispose of any solvent rags by cutting a hole in the top of a windshield washer fluid jug and filling it with water and some dish detergent. 
Drop the rags in and I never worry about them spontaneously combusting. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Latinrascalrg1 (Feb 2, 2020)

xnaron said:


> The previous owner made the stand 10" taller than a stock stand.  I did some turning on it today and I think it is a little taller than I'd like (i am 6ft tall).  I could take the wheels off and that would drop it 4 or 5".  I'll keep an eye for the stock stand to go on sale and maybe ditch this one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just take the wheels off and ad a set of leveling feet and you should be good to go. Worse case if its still not short enough then I would either cut the extra length off or add an inch or 2 of some fatigue rubber mats in front on the lathe to stand on.  I would use the money you would spend on the stock bench for some other useful toy I don't have but would like to!


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## SLK001 (Feb 2, 2020)

I would ditch the wheels.  Anyway, doing so will bring the height to where it should be.  You might want to also ditch the rubber mounting pads.  Once you do all this, move the lathe to its permanent place and level it to specs.


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## mikey (Feb 2, 2020)

Latinrascalrg1 said:


> Ok im confused so I have another Rookie question (yeah I know, AGAIN!) Aren't change gears something you need for a lathe Without a qcgb? Doesn't the lathe in the picture have a quick change gearbox on it?



No QCGB can cut all the Imperial and Metric thread pitches we need. To really be a complete lathe you need to have the set of change gears to cut those threads the stock gearing in the QCGB cannot cut. It is incredibly frustrating to be stopped dead in your tracks during a project because you lack this capability. Trust me; this is true. There will come a day when you have to make a part to fit something that you did not make, and in all likelihood it will be metric. Most American lathes, especially the "old iron" ones, cannot do it because they lack the gearing and change gears are not available. So, you're down until you can make the gear AND find/make the 127 tooth transposing gear you need to make it work. OR you just cannot do it, and that sucks.

You will find that most modern Asian lathes will come with change gear sets because their usable range inside the gearbox is lacking. If it is available, buy the gear set. Most old American lathes cut only common Imperial pitches but no metric ones. If this is you, you might want to start searching for a change gear set and a 127 tooth gear.

Many guys look down on change gear lathes, like the PM 1127, but they are actually more capable for thread cutting than most other lathes out there. Its a bit of a hassle to have to change gears but not a lot, and that lathe is going to be long done with the job while the SB13 owner is still searching for the right gears. For myself, the lack of a change gear set is a deal breaker; I won't buy a lathe for which such a set is not available.


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## Latinrascalrg1 (Feb 2, 2020)

Do you change the gears in the qcgb or some in the headstock?  Thanks for the reply.


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## mikey (Feb 2, 2020)

You change the gears on the end of the headstock. Pretty easy to do.

Which lathe do you have?


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## Latinrascalrg1 (Feb 2, 2020)

Presently i have a 12x48 clausing 100 series that has a qcgb and a 7x12 hf benchtop without the gearbox but Im mainly asking for future reference knowledge just incase i decided to buy a 3rd lathe if once should jump in front of me for the right price! Thanks for the help.


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## mikey (Feb 2, 2020)

You're welcome. 

I own a little Sherline lathe that can cut more threads than almost any lathe out there. It is all manually done but that lathe will cut Class 3 threads all day. I also own an Emco Super 11 CD lathe and the change gear set is ground and hardened; it cost almost $300 for the new set I got but they are no longer available. The last set I saw on ebay had an asking price of over $600.00! Crazy, but that is what they go for when you must have the capability.


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## graham-xrf (Feb 2, 2020)

xnaron said:


> The gas worked really well to remove the varnished cosmoline.  I used it with the garage door open and disposed of the rags outside in a garbage bag.


This I do not do. I dump the used wipes in a plastic bin with a garbage bag liner, but outside, with no lid. It does not take long for the volatiles to evaporate out, and the whole thing ceases to smell, and ceases to be a direct hazard. Only then can you tie up the bag.

The vapour build-up inside a plastic garbage bag full of gasoline-soaked rags finds enough oxygen to become explosive, and even dragging the bag against something else plastic, or a shirt sleeve as it is handled, provides an impressive static charge. Do not get careless with gasoline! Gas tanks are made of metal for a reason!


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## MontanaLon (Feb 2, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Well done on the your new lathe!
> 
> I dispose of any solvent rags by cutting a hole in the top of a windshield washer fluid jug and filling it with water and some dish detergent.
> Drop the rags in and I never worry about them spontaneously combusting.
> ...


There is a lot of confusion around about oily rags spontaneously combusting. The truth is solvents and products derived from crude oil aren't a danger of spontaneously combusting and it is only "oils" of plants that are a problem. Linseed oil is probably the largest culprit simply because it is used in so many different products but it isn't the only one you have to worry about. Corn oil, like the wife has in the kitchen cabinet can do it too.

The reason mineral oils don't spontaneously combust is there isn't a great enough concentration of oxygen in the atmosphere to support rapid oxidation. But if the oxygen is concentrated mineral type oils can ignite without a source of ignition. 

That is why compressed oxygen bottles all say "USE NO OIL" on the valves. The oil will spontaneously combust and then you have a source of heat, oxygen and fuel in the form of the plastic hose and it is quite impressive how fast it will burn. Not quite explosive but close enough that the average person will say "My oxygen bottle exploded".

Saw it a couple times as a firefighter.

Oily rags that go into a metal can are only safe because the can will keep the oxygen used in the oxidation of the from being replaced meaning the rags deprive the atmosphere inside the can from oxygen and stop the process. But if the seal is not tight on that can the O2 will be replaced and then you have a pile of oily rags and that is bad because heat will build up. If the rag is hung up where it is not in a pile, any heat generated simply dissipates into the surrounding air and nothing happens.


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## xnaron (Feb 2, 2020)

I actually left the rags in a pile on the driveway for a few hours before I got around to putting then in a garbage bag. I'm pretty sure all the gasoline evaporated


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## DavidR8 (Feb 2, 2020)

Thanks @MontanaLon, I didn't know that. I remember reading about rags used with linseed oil being particularly susceptible to spontaneous combustion. I appreciate the additional information!


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## Titanium Knurler (Feb 2, 2020)

Sorry to join in toward the end of this thread.  Terrific find and it looks great with the old cosmoline removed.  A find like that may qualify you for a “you suck” award.  

The only reason I am chiming-in is that I believe cleaning with gasoline can be risky business.  All turned out well this time but you might not be as fortunate next time you find a beauty to clean-up. I might be a bit sensitive to this issue since my best friend and I had an “incident” when we were young that involved a ground squirrel hole, gasoline, matches and the loss of pretty much all of our facial hair.  It happened in an instant.  We laugh about it now but I think we were pretty lucky. Anyway, If there is a next time, I would consider using a product sold by Grizzly.  It worked exceptionally well for me when removing cosmoline from my lathe.  You just spray it on, wait a few minutes then wipe it off.  It seems to be safe for paint and metal and it has a pleasant orange odor and is not dangerous like gasoline. It even seems to leave an oily protective layer.  I have attached a photo of the Grizzly stuff and what looks like a similar product found at HD.  

Sorry to be a “busy body” but I hate to see anyone get hurt.  Again great find I look forward to seeing some of your projects!  Mike


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## Downunder Bob (Feb 3, 2020)

mikey said:


> No QCGB can cut all the Imperial and Metric thread pitches we need. To really be a complete lathe you need to have the set of change gears to cut those threads the stock gearing in the QCGB cannot cut. It is incredibly frustrating to be stopped dead in your tracks during a project because you lack this capability. Trust me; this is true. There will come a day when you have to make a part to fit something that you did not make, and in all likelihood it will be metric. Most American lathes, especially the "old iron" ones, cannot do it because they lack the gearing and change gears are not available. So, you're down until you can make the gear AND find/make the 127 tooth transposing gear you need to make it work. OR you just cannot do it, and that sucks.
> 
> You will find that most modern Asian lathes will come with change gear sets because their usable range inside the gearbox is lacking. If it is available, buy the gear set. Most old American lathes cut only common Imperial pitches but no metric ones. If this is you, you might want to start searching for a change gear set and a 127 tooth gear.
> 
> Many guys look down on change gear lathes, like the PM 1127, but they are actually more capable for thread cutting than most other lathes out there. Its a bit of a hassle to have to change gears but not a lot, and that lathe is going to be long done with the job while the SB13 owner is still searching for the right gears. For myself, the lack of a change gear set is a deal breaker; I won't buy a lathe for which such a set is not available.



Actually I think you'll find that any lathe that can cut threads, can cut metric by using the 127 t gear, other sizes also apply.


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## mikey (Feb 3, 2020)

Downunder Bob said:


> Actually I think you'll find that any lathe that can cut threads, can cut metric by using the 127 t gear, other sizes also apply.



Maybe, IF you have a change gear set and that 127 tooth gear, but you gotta' have it first. If you don't then you can't.


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## xnaron (Feb 3, 2020)

Anyone know what the icon below (see arrow) means?  Looks like don't reverse?  Can't find it in the manual.


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## Titanium Knurler (Feb 3, 2020)

xnaron said:


> Anyone know what the icon below (see arrow) means?  Looks like don't reverse?  Can't find it in the manual.
> 
> View attachment 312494


xnaron,


xnaron said:


> Anyone know what the icon below (see arrow) means?  Looks like don't reverse?  Can't find it in the manual.
> 
> View attachment 312494



Xmaron, my guess would also be don’t reverse _while motor is running.  _Here is a warning in the manual for my PM lathe:



Hope that helps, Mike


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## xnaron (Feb 4, 2020)

moved to a  new thread


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