# Foo, failed vehicle inspection for this?



## WobblyHand (May 23, 2022)

As you can tell from the thread title, this is a rant.  

Bring in my 2015 for safety inspection.  Get called that they failed my driver side headlight, for being too cloudy.  Offer to sell me a "fix" for $150.  I say, no thanks, bet I could fix it myself.  Didn't want to ask how long the treatment was guaranteed for.  Then I asked, how will I know if my work is good enough?  What is the criteria for a pass?  What is _not too cloudy?_  Finally coax out the explanation, it has to be at least as good as the passenger side, which did pass.  Ok.  Guess I won't touch the passenger headlight at all, since it is my reference.

Get the rejected car back.  The driver headlight _is pretty cloudy_.  Honestly, it looked dirty.  Wash it with some windshield wiper fluid, it showed clear when wiped, but then clouded over.  I've seen that before and know the fix.  Started the search in the garage for a bottle of Meguiar's Mirror Glaze Professional.  It is basically a water based polish.  Takes me 3 minutes to find it.  A couple of minutes to shake it up again, as the old bottle has settled.  2 minutes after that, and 2 paper towel sheets later, the headlight looks almost new.  That old bottle of Meguiar's cost well under $10 when I bought it.  Pretty sure any gentle car polish would work.  No UV protectant, so I will need to do it again in a few months, or at least before the next inspection.  One of these days I will find some UV protectant, that isn't ridiculously overpriced, which should reduce the time between polish jobs.

I don't know, but, failing for the sake of a 2 minute polish job is bad, and making the push for the cleaning and protecting of the headlight for $150 left a bad taste in my mouth.  Especially since the amount of work to clear the headlight takes so little time and effort.  Makes me feel like they wanted to take advantage of me.  

I will bring in the car for a "re-test" tomorrow.  Don't think I will be going back to this place for inspections (which are yearly in NH).  The place used to be ok, but has gone downhill in the past couple of years...

Rant over.


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## rabler (May 23, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> I will bring in the car for a "re-test" tomorrow.  Don't think I will be going back to this place for inspections (which are yearly in NH).  The place used to be ok, but has gone downhill in the past couple of years...
> 
> Rant over.


I would agree with your rant and avoiding the place.  I have a few supporting thoughts about any sort of mandated process .  But they might verge on political.   I use to use Mirror Glaze on the plexiglass windshield of small planes.  Works well.
Perhaps silly, but I wonder if sunblock work for token UV protection?


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## Marv in Minn (May 23, 2022)

with gas prices like they are, i bought a locking gas cap for my Tundra.
the next day the check engine light came on so i went to have it diagnosed.
bad gas cap and charcoal filter, the test cost me $165!   
they wanted $1250 to replace the charcoal canister and a new gas cap.

i put the old gas cap back on and the next day no more check engine light  
today they called and said they have the parts and when do i want to come in?
i said "no thanks, i fixed it by putting the old cap back on".
you should have heard him spit and sputter!


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## WobblyHand (May 23, 2022)

Marv in Minn said:


> with gas prices like they are, i bought a locking gas cap for my Tundra.
> the next day the check engine light came on so i went to have it diagnosed.
> bad gas cap and charcoal filter, the test cost me $165!
> they wanted $1250 to replace the charcoal canister and a new gas cap.
> ...


Wow, what is so special about either the charcoal filter or the gas cap, that it would be _that expensive_?  Labor for the installation because half the car needs to be disassembled?


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## Just for fun (May 23, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> As you can tell from the thread title, this is a rant.
> 
> Bring in my 2015 for safety inspection.  Get called that they failed my driver side headlight, for being too cloudy.  Offer to sell me a "fix" for $150.  I say, no thanks, bet I could fix it myself.  Didn't want to ask how long the treatment was guaranteed for.  Then I asked, how will I know if my work is good enough?  What is the criteria for a pass?  What is _not too cloudy?_ *Finally coax out the explanation, it has to be at least as good as the passenger side*, which did pass.  Ok.  Guess I won't touch the passenger headlight at all, since it is my reference.
> 
> ...



Oh man,   Now that you have the drivers side looking good the passenger side is going to fail........  LOL


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## Jim F (May 23, 2022)

Dealers have a set labor rate at over $100 per hr.

Techs get much less than that, that is why the techs try to up-sell stuff, plus some dealers give spiffs for up-sells....


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## WobblyHand (May 23, 2022)

Just for fun said:


> Oh man,   Now that you have the drivers side looking good the passenger side is going to fail........  LOL


I'll polish it up the other one tomorrow.  Really only took a couple minutes.  Maybe this time I'll use some shop towels.  Thought I might have to use my orbital polisher, but the polishing went so fast by hand, it's not even worth looking for the orbital in the garage.


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## WobblyHand (May 23, 2022)

Changed my mind.  The passenger headlight passed inspection.  I only failed because of the drivers side.  Took out a shop towel and did another polish on the driver side.  With a shop towel it took a whopping 90 seconds from start to finish.  Makes me more miffed than ever.  Going back tomorrow, with the polish, and shop towels, in case they are needed for the second headlight.  After getting the pass, I am going to tell them they lost a customer.  I strongly suspect they failed me solely to do an upsell.  They have lost my trust.


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## mickri (May 23, 2022)

A neighbor's son had a somewhat similar situation.  He had bought a pickup out of state and it failed to pass the smog inspection to register it in California.  The smog station said it couldn't quote him a price to fix until after they figured out what was wrong.  Wanted around $500 to figure out what was wrong.  Jonas is not mechanically inclined.  He was into his horses.  Some of which he kept at my old house.  Told him to bring his truck down and I would look at it.  Looked the truck over and immediately saw an unplugged electrical connection that was bright and shinny.  Not a speck of dirt to be seen.  I thought that hadn't been unplugged for very long.  It was by the battery.  A little further investigation and an online search revealed that there should have been a temperature sensor on the bottom of the battery.  Pulled the battery.  No temperature sensor.  Somebody had removed it.  The local Napa had one in stock.  Cost a little over $50.  With the sensor replaced the truck passed smog.  Who would think that the temperature of the battery was somehow tied into the smog system.  And who had removed it.  Jonas didn't care because he got his truck fixed for $50.


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## silence dogood (May 23, 2022)

That is the nice thing about the old stye incandescent light bulbs. UV does not affect glass.


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## vocatexas (May 23, 2022)

We have a yearly 'safety' inspection in Texas as well. Talk about a scam. I took my '76 F-250 in for inspection a couple of years ago and they failed it because they said my horn wasn't loud enough. I asked him to show me where the inspection form stated the horn had to produce a certain decible level and to show me his meter. He said he didn't have to, he wasn't passing it unless the horn was replaced. The shop is owned by a friend of mine (who wasn't there at the time), but I've had problems with the jerk doing the inspection before. Took it to another friend's shop across the street and passed with flying colors.


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## WobblyHand (May 23, 2022)

vocatexas said:


> We have a yearly 'safety' inspection in Texas as well. Talk about a scam. I took my '76 F-250 in for inspection a couple of years ago and they failed it because they said my horn wasn't loud enough. I asked him to show me where the inspection form stated the horn had to produce a certain decible level and to show me his meter. He said he didn't have to, he wasn't passing it unless the horn was replaced. The shop is owned by a friend of mine (who wasn't there at the time), but I've had problems with the jerk doing the inspection before. Took it to another friend's shop across the street and passed with flying colors.


People like that should be reported to the state, so his license to inspect is pulled.  Arbitrary decisions based by some jerk, shouldn't be the basis of a state wide inspection system.  I'd wager the state of Texas would agree.


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## WobblyHand (May 23, 2022)

silence dogood said:


> That is the nice thing about the old stye incandescent light bulbs. UV does not affect glass.


Yes, never had this problem with glass headlamps.  I have a 94 Miata with glass pop up headlights.  I have 100W bulbs in them, they do light up the night.

As far as I am concerned, the headlamps with plastic are designed for service lives far less than the vehicle itself.  In my view they are defectively designed.  The plastics they chose are deficient.  

But, 2 minutes of polishing and a nickel's worth of polish fixed the problem for now.  That's a lot better than paying an exorbitant price for a new headlight assembly, that will haze over in seven years...


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## mickri (May 23, 2022)

Another problem with the new lights is the reflective coating inside the light.  No way to replace it that I could figure out on my 94 Dodge.  Had to replace the lights.  The new lights from China have different reflective patterns on the driver side compared to the passenger side.  The driver side barely lights up the road.


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## mmcmdl (May 23, 2022)

Jim F said:


> Dealers have a set labor rate at over $100 per hr.


If they keep their noses clean and don't FU , one day they'll make what us metal workers make !


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## Hawkeye (May 23, 2022)

I used to use Mirror Glaze on my airplane windshield. Many years later, after my house fire, I went to get another bottle to clean up some gauges and the like. Turns out, Meguiar's had re-used the Mirror Glaze name for a completely different product. The stuff we need now is called PlastX, but works just as well as the old stuff.


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## extropic (May 24, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> As you can tell from the thread title, this is a rant.
> 
> Bring in my 2015 for safety inspection.  Get called that they failed my driver side headlight, for being too cloudy.  Offer to sell me a "fix" for $150.  I say, no thanks, bet I could fix it myself.  Didn't want to ask how long the treatment was guaranteed for.  Then I asked, how will I know if my work is good enough?  What is the criteria for a pass?  What is _not too cloudy?_  Finally coax out the explanation, it has to be at least as good as the passenger side, which did pass.  Ok.  Guess I won't touch the passenger headlight at all, since it is my reference.
> 
> ...



After you pass your inspection, make up a nice bright sandwich board advertising *HEADLIGHT LENS POLISHING $20 PER* and set up on the curb right beyond the shop's driveway. Take what you need to do a good job of it. Take video, you'll become a local celebrity/hero (and maybe make some $$)
.


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## graham-xrf (May 24, 2022)

In the UK, the inspection is mandatory, called "MoT". It starts three years from new, and it is not expensive. What the licensed providers do is strictly codified, and a compaint to the government agency is VERY bad for them. I dare say there are scams, and abuse of trust (e.g. being given an inflated list of repairs), but we rarely hear of them. It's been going for decades, and I think the abuses have been winkled out by now. Also - its very competitive. To get certified to do MoT is a big deal. They have to provide a safe area from where the customer can view the inspection under way, and a comfortable room where they can wait. 

You do not have to have the same place do the repairs as did the inspection, though most don't bother to take it elsewhere. If a test facility makes a "pass" conditional on a repair being done, you can take it elsewhere, and bring back for a re-test on the failed items. Since the MoT fee has already been paid, there can be no additional charge - at least, that's the way it worked for me when I replaced my own corroded brake lines.

Returning with a invoice from an alternative repairer forces it. If the alternative place inspected, and signed it as good to go, that's the end of it.


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## WobblyHand (May 24, 2022)

Hawkeye said:


> I used to use Mirror Glaze on my airplane windshield. Many years later, after my house fire, I went to get another bottle to clean up some gauges and the like. Turns out, Meguiar's had re-used the Mirror Glaze name for a completely different product. The stuff we need now is called PlastX, but works just as well as the old stuff.


Used to have some PlastX, was looking for it in the garage yesterday, but didn't find it.  Couldn't remember the name of it, so was looking for a container  with the right shape.  The search came up empty, so ended up using the old mirror glaze which worked fine.  At least I know what it's called for the next time!


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## Janderso (May 24, 2022)

Jim F said:


> Dealers have a set labor rate at over $100 per hr.
> 
> Techs get much less than that, that is why the techs try to up-sell stuff, plus some dealers give spiffs for up-sells....


Our rate was $140 and up. Less fir maintenance.
The techs made between $35-$55 per hour flat rate.
This is in a rural part of the country. I can’t imagine what the rate and pay is in urban areas.


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## Janderso (May 24, 2022)

We had a kit for the used car dept.
As I recall it consisted of a heavy duty rubbing compound, a fine polish then a liquid we put over the lens that would dry to a brilliant clear lens.
Safe-cut worked just as well.


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## WobblyHand (May 24, 2022)

Janderso said:


> We had a kit for the used car dept.
> As I recall it consisted of a heavy duty rubbing compound, a fine polish then a liquid we put over the lens that would dry to a brilliant clear lens.
> Safe-cut worked just as well.


Was the liquid a uv protectant, or just a good clear coat?


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## woodchucker (May 24, 2022)

Janderso said:


> We had a kit for the used car dept.
> As I recall it consisted of a heavy duty rubbing compound, a fine polish then a liquid we put over the lens that would dry to a brilliant clear lens.
> Safe-cut worked just as well.


Jeff, what is Safe-cut?


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## projectnut (May 24, 2022)

There are a ton of headlight restoration kits available online.  They range in price from a minimum of around $15.00 to over $60.00 depending on the brand and the number of items included.  The better ones come with a UV protectant.  The entire process for a badly fogged light takes between 30 and 40 minutes according to the manufacturer.

While the quoted price is high it doesn't sound like it's out of line given J Andersons quotation of current labor rates.  With the kit at $60.00 and the technician making Slightly over $36.00 plus benefits the dealership will be making about $40.00 to cover overhead and other fixed costs.  I would bet the dealer profit would be in the $10.00 to $15.00 range when all was said and done. 

 Keep in mind the dealership or repair shops have to guarantee their work for a set period of time.  Around here the dealerships usually guarantee their work for a year while private shops are between 90 and 180 days.  Should the process have to be repeated within the specified time period it would be at the expense of the repair shop.


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## WobblyHand (May 24, 2022)

projectnut said:


> There are a ton of headlight restoration kits available online.  They range in price from a minimum of around $15.00 to over $60.00 depending on the brand and the number of items included.  The better ones come with a UV protectant.  The entire process for a badly fogged light takes between 30 and 40 minutes according to the manufacturer.
> 
> While the quoted price is high it doesn't sound like it's out of line given J Andersons quotation of current labor rates.  With the kit at $60.00 and the technician making Slightly over $36.00 plus benefits the dealership will be making about $40.00 to cover overhead and other fixed costs.  I would bet the dealer profit would be in the $10.00 to $15.00 range when all was said and done.
> 
> Keep in mind the dealership or repair shops have to guarantee their work for a set period of time.  Around here the dealerships usually guarantee their work for a year while private shops are between 90 and 180 days.  Should the process have to be repeated within the specified time period it would be at the expense of the repair shop.


Perfectly reasonable argument.  

Still feels like a terribly convenient way to use ultra strict enforcement of state standards by a private company to personally benefit the same company.  If the inspectors didn't benefit from this, it wouldn't bother me.  But they are allowed to benefit their employer to steer rejection work to them.  This system feels like it is ripe for abuse.  Most people, would pay the ridiculous fee.  I won't, unless I was under total duress.


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## rabler (May 24, 2022)

projectnut said:


> There are a ton of headlight restoration kits available online.  They range in price from a minimum of around $15.00 to over $60.00 depending on the brand and the number of items included.  The better ones come with a UV protectant.  The entire process for a badly fogged light takes between 30 and 40 minutes according to the manufacturer.
> 
> While the quoted price is high it doesn't sound like it's out of line given J Andersons quotation of current labor rates.  With the kit at $60.00 and the technician making Slightly over $36.00 plus benefits the dealership will be making about $40.00 to cover overhead and other fixed costs.  I would bet the dealer profit would be in the $10.00 to $15.00 range when all was said and done.
> 
> Keep in mind the dealership or repair shops have to guarantee their work for a set period of time.  Around here the dealerships usually guarantee their work for a year while private shops are between 90 and 180 days.  Should the process have to be repeated within the specified time period it would be at the expense of the repair shop.


Which raises the point that most of these places that do inspections do so at a loss on the inspection part,  but the inspection price is often capped.


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## WobblyHand (May 24, 2022)

rabler said:


> Which raises the point that most of these places that do inspections do so at a loss on the inspection part,  but the inspection price is often capped.


Have to admit, that inspection requires a lot of work for the fee.  Which in my opinion, leads to a very strong motivation for the shop to reject, so they can get the repair business.  

State law requires at least one wheel to be removed to physically inspect the condition of the brakes.  Think they look at different wheels every year.  Typically the car goes on a lift and the backsides of the tires are inspected, along with classic checking of ball joints, and all the rest of the normal stuff.


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## projectnut (May 24, 2022)

Back in the 1970's the state of Wisconsin was wrestling with whether or not to require annual automobile inspections.  They sent out hundreds of thousands of inspection forms asking the recipients to voluntarily have their cars inspected.  At the time I owned 2 Standard Oil service stations and was asked to participate as an inspection station.

The form was lengthy and took up to 1/2 hour to complete depending on the age of the vehicle.  The Wisconsin DOT was paying the inspection stations $2.00 per form.  As you might expect it wasn't a money-making endeavor in that the average hourly rate for service work at that time was between $15.00 and $20.00 per hour depending on location.  

I literally did thousands of the inspections.  There were a few vehicles that wouldn't have been able to be licensed should passing the exam be a contingency for renewal.  However, the overwhelming majority had few if any problems to be concerned with.  As a result of the voluntary program and the overall condition of the cars being inspected it was determined that as annual state inspection wasn't necessary.  However, since that time some cities and counties have implemented mandatory inspection programs. 

Maybe it was a function of automobile construction and road maintenance of the time.  Winters were much colder with an average of 2 or more weeks with high temperatures below 0* and lows of -20*.  Add to that the rust prone metals used, and the tons of salt poured on the roads and most cars that were in poor condition either rusted away or refused to start.  The average lifespan of an automobile in this area at that time was 7 years.  I must say I was a bit disappointed in the new vehicles I bought during that time period.  I had the bodies literally rust away on a couple and had to rebuild the engines in a couple more.


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## aliva (May 24, 2022)

I guess I should feel lucky where I live in Northern Ontario there are no mandatory vehicle inspections.
That being said the ministry of transportation and or the police can pull you over and demand an safety inspection within 24 hrs. This rarely happens unless there's an oblivious safety defect.


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## markba633csi (May 24, 2022)

I failed a smog once.  Tech said "idle speed too low" - 400 rpm.  Wait a minute, I said- the engine won't even stay running if the idle was
set that low. 
Turned out the 4 was actually a 9,  his viewing angle was such he couldn't see the whole digit on his tach
Passed on retest


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## Firebrick43 (May 24, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Perfectly reasonable argument.
> 
> Still feels like a terribly convenient way to use ultra strict enforcement of state standards by a private company to personally benefit the same company.  If the inspectors didn't benefit from this, it wouldn't bother me.  But they are allowed to benefit their employer to steer rejection work to them.  This system feels like it is ripe for abuse.  Most people, would pay the ridiculous fee.  I won't, unless I was under total duress.


This is why many states that had inspections in the 70's/early 80's did away with them.  I don't particularly think that this shop "was trying to screw you".  Running a shop is expensive.  They don't typically make money per say on the actual maintenance, the part of the shop making money is in the sales of parts.


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## WobblyHand (May 24, 2022)

I don't particularly think they were out to get me, but more like they are out to make enough money to keep existing.  At least I was able to decline their fix and go with my own.  Got my inspection sticker, so for now, it's good enough.  

Honestly don't know why DOT doesn't force the manufacturers to come up with nonclouding headlights.  Or at least mandate a certain lifetime.  Then again, DOT used to be in the stone age for headlight technology.  Probably still is.


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## cathead (May 25, 2022)

Some years ago, I was stopped by the police for having a tail light out.  They issued a fix it ticket.  
I made the repairs myself and took it to them for inspection.  The officer looked at the lit tail lights
and said which one was out?  My reply was: "What difference does that make?"  The officer didn't think it was
funny at all but I laughed about it all the way home.


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## addertooth (May 25, 2022)

This is one of the good things about living in a small town in Arizona.  Only the Major cities have vehicle inspection.  Some would worry about dangerous cars on the street, but the high desert heat takes marginal cars out of the gene-pool rather quickly.  You don't see very many cars with questionable tires, as the high-temperature roads fail them quickly.  The same is true of other car systems.  

I read the posting from the Brit earlier and chuckled.  They produce cars there which cannot be imported into the USA, for not passing safety requirements when they are brand new.  I have one of the cars which could no longer be imported after they reached the 5-year exemption which allowed them to come to the USA (Lotus Elise).  It is incredibly nimble.  But, it is one of those 1 hour at the track, 3 hours in the shop kind of cars.


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