# Confusion Of Style Of Taps To Purchase



## Swerdk (Oct 29, 2015)

Got a budget of $200 to purchase Taps. New to lathing and have been told that dies are not used nearly as often so just buy dies as needed.  
There are 3 types of taps - bottoming; plug; and taper.  Which type are the most commonly used on jobs?  Want to do mostly model engine building and improvement construction on lathe. 12x36.
I see they are sold in sets but i assume a set for $30 is some cheep taps being one goes for $23. ( same brand too)

Tell me your favorites guys?  Brands and types and catalog companies.  Thanks


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## Andy Rafferty (Oct 29, 2015)

I have several older hansen brand sets and even an older craftsman set. High Speed steel sets are more expensive than carbon steel and last and cut better. I have gun taps for small delicate work. Most of the bottom taps I have are rescued broken plug taps. Buy a nice set of taps and dies in the middle of your normal range of sizes you intend to work and pick up doubles as you find good deals at MSC and ENCO and keep a look out for a deal on a small quantity of left handed. They sure come in handy. No charge for my .02 cents.


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## kd4gij (Oct 29, 2015)

Depends on what you are going to use them. The taper or starting tap is used for taping a hole for the first time. Bottom taps like the name states is to finishing tapping to the bottom of a blind hole. Plug taps are used for chasing or restoring threads. And then there is even more choices. Such as spiral point tap, spiral flute tabs, and thread forming taps.


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## Swerdk (Oct 29, 2015)

So bottom taps cant be used to start holes?


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## wawoodman (Oct 29, 2015)

It's much more difficult. A bottoming tap only has a couple of tapered threads. A plug or taper tap is bettr suited for starting. And for through holes, you can't beat spiral tip taps.


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## Bill C. (Oct 29, 2015)

If you are power tapping use three or two fluted taps. They have more metal than four flutes ones. Four fluted ones are for hand taping and could break if they get in a bind. They need to be backed out so the chips can be removed. Bottom taps should be done by hand so you know when it bottoms out.  I usually drill the tap hole deeper so I don't need a bottom tap if the part allows it.


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## coolidge (Oct 29, 2015)

You have plenty of budget I just purchased 10 taps for $137, Guhring made in Germany Cobalt spiral point bottom taps. Two sets one set of 2 flute for aluminum/brass and one set of 3 flute for steel in these sizes 8-32, 10-24, 1/4-20, 5/16-18, 3/8-16. Purchased them on sale at MSC.



While these are "bottom taps" they have enough taper at the end to start a hole when tapping with a machine. I would also feel comfortable using these taps when hand tapping either with a tap wrench or chucked in a cordless drill IF the material was thin. I might think twice about trying to hand tap a deep hole with these by hand. You can absolutely get a tap started crooked and snap it off half way through a hole when hand tapping, don't ask me how I know this  I have standard bottom taps that are much more squared off that I would not attempt to start a hole with by any means.


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## kd4gij (Oct 29, 2015)

A bottom tap would be hard to start straight and would be gutting full depth from the start. Where as a starter tap each thread up goes a little deeper. A plug tap gets to depth in fewer threads. In softer material plug taps do fine. The taps Coolidge posted are spiral flute taps. That evacuate chips much better. They are for power taping, but work very good hand taping as well.


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## mikey (Oct 29, 2015)

To add to what has been said, I suggest you do your shopping on ebay, buying only new stock. Prices typically range from cheaper to stupid cheap. Brands that work well for me are OSG, Titex, Ghuring and any of the quality US makers - PTD, Cleveland, Triumph, etc. Lower end are Irwin-Hanson, though they make decent taps and bottom end is stuff like Vermont American. If you are lucky you'll find a set that nobody notices, like my brand new $5.00 Titex cobalt drill/tap set from 6-32-1/4-20 ... sorry, had to gloat. 

If you're doing model engine stuff then you'll probably be working on the smaller end of things. Good taps are necessary. If working with more malleable materials - aluminum and brass - try to use roll taps. They are stronger, produce no chips and make cleaner, more precise threads. They work in steel but are intended for softer materials. 

When possible, use spiral point taps, AKA gun taps. They do not require you to break chips and back out - they push the chips ahead and therefore work best in through holes. 

You can absolutely start a bottoming tap in a hole but it helps to do this with either a tap guide or leaving the work in the vise and starting the tap with the drilling spindle to get it going in straight. You need to use more pressure but you can do it. Naturally, the right way is to start with a taper or plug tap first but sometimes all you have is a bottom tap and I have made this work many times before. 

Look up fits. All taps are ground to standards and the more precise the fit, the higher the cost.


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## chips&more (Oct 29, 2015)

Yes it can be confusing. Manufactures can’t get together and call the different tap designs with common names. Anyway, I like gun taps or maybe they call them spiral point. The tap pushes the chips ahead of the tap. The tap is much beefier, makes it kinda stronger than its other tap friends in the same size. And it can be power tapped with ease. Works well with through holes or holes with room for the chips to go. Or, the fast spiral taps. These taps are great if you want the chips pulled out of the hole when tapping. Can also power tap with these, but chip blockage could be a problem. I have some of those old hand taps somewhere??? Have not used that kind in decades…Good Luck, Dave.


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## wawoodman (Oct 29, 2015)

Just today, I had great success power tapping 10-32 holes in 1/4 and 3/8 steel, using a cordless drill and spiral point flutes. First time I tried it!


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## joshua43214 (Oct 29, 2015)

Not a bad idea to get a cheap "general use" carbon steel tap and die set from McMaster Carr, I got them in both metric and standard. They seem to have the best price on low end taps sets. I find it is handy to have a cheap set of taps, I'm not going to dump good money on an expensive tap just to make a few holes. They are also really good to have around for when you are making fixtures or taping the castings on your machines. On harder materials, drill for 60% thread and you will never break one, and never be able to tell the difference in thread strength. I like to save my good taps for stuff that is important.

I usually get my good taps from MSC when they go on sale. I like 4 flute HSS sets that include plug, taper, and bottoming. I order the ones I need before I start a project. I usually have a good idea what projects will be upcoming for a few months, so I just keep them in my basket and order when I get a good coupon.
I do not care for spiral point (gun) taps. They are really meant for through holes, and can be a pain on blind holes. Spiral flute taps are really nice, but I don't find the threads are any better than 4 flute taps, so not worth the extra cost. I power tap with 4 flute with no problems on the lathe, mill, or cordless drill. Spiral flute taps do use less power, so they are better for holes over 3/8".

To re-iterate what the others have said, you start with a taper tap, and bottom with a bottoming tap. Use the plug tap for blind holes that do not need bottoming or through holes.
Dies are really handy to have for cleaning up single pointed threads when you didn't support the work properly, or finishing off a thread that didn't get cut deep enough. I cut most threads under 3/8" with a die anyway. Single point is best for larger threads.


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## JimDawson (Oct 29, 2015)

The first thing I would do is buy the 60 Pc SAE & Metric Tap and Die Set from Harbor Freight, Item#35407, $40.  These are little better than thread chasers, but usable.  My go to solution for cleaning up threads.

Then I would buy good quality spiral point taps in the sizes you think you need.  Spiral point taps come in starting, plug, and bottoming.  I personally like the taps from Fastenal.  Very high quality, but I don't know who actually makes them.  Hertel and OSG from Enco are good taps also.  Buy more than one in each size and style, it sucks to break one on a Saturday and be stuck.

Also don't forget to buy tap drills, again Harbor Freight is a good source.  Their 115 piece sets are a pretty good buy, I have several of them, wait for the 20% off coupon.


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## T Bredehoft (Oct 30, 2015)

I endorse the spiral FLUTE taps that Coolege recommended. They are unexcelled for power tapping, and work well with hand tapping, too. In blind holes (not thru) the chips come up the flutes, are not driven ahead of the tap as Spiral POINT taps do.


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## Swerdk (Oct 30, 2015)

When does MSC have their best sales and how much off?  I am going with a combo of guhring  and harbor freight ( gluten for punishment I know )


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## Swerdk (Oct 30, 2015)

Is it necessary to have a different type of taps for aluminum and brass? It was mentioned that I think two flutes for soft metals and three flutes for hard metals is this a constant in machining?


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## coolidge (Oct 30, 2015)

Get on the Enco and MSC email list they have sales quite frequently OR most sales and the codes are posted here on the hobby forum like 30 seconds after the email goes out. Its almost a contest around here to see who can post the codes the fastest. Mind you an MSC sale really means they are willing to sell you the item at the normal cost vs the jacked up over MSRP listed price. Something fishy about that.  Also note that MSC sales say "up to" 35% off I typically get less than that for items I purchase.

Enco is where the real deals can be had. They frequently have 20% off sales, on occasion 25% off and when you can stack those on top of items already on sale in the Hot Deals section you can get close to 50% off. Enco is also the place to shop for Kurt vices, they drop ship from Kurt with free shipping, slap a 20% off Enco sales code on a D688 and your out the door for around $470. That's not much more than many import vices.


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## coolidge (Oct 30, 2015)

Swerdk said:


> Is it necessary to have a different type of taps for aluminum and brass? It was mentioned that I think two flutes for soft metals and three flutes for hard metals is this a constant in machining?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



In a CNC machine with rigid tapping I'd say yes, hand tapping or manual mill tapping you can probably get away with using the 3 flute steel taps. Certainly for brass. Aluminum is gummy galling yuck metal hence fewer flutes. I decided to give the two flutes a try but I have used standard taps on aluminum forever and the sky didn't fall. I just had to be careful.


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## Dan_S (Oct 30, 2015)

I'm with Coolidge, you can hand tap using just about anything. Just make sure you use a good taping fluid, break the chip often, and clean out the flutes.


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## coolidge (Oct 30, 2015)

I'm with Dan, tapping fluid and backing out frequently to clean the chips out of the flutes is key with standard taps.


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## Eddyde (Oct 30, 2015)

I got an Ace Hanson tap & die set for my 18th birthday (52 now). I still have all but one of the original dies and have a few of the original NF taps but all of the NC taps have been replaced several times over. As others have said, the dies were/are used manly for chasing threads, some have never been used. I rarely use it anymore as I now prefer to use machine driven taps, which I buy as needed. One thing I do is keep the each size of tap with its respective drill in a ziplock bag, you know, the ones from McMaster.


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## Bill Gruby (Oct 30, 2015)

One gentleman has said that a plug tap is also known as a taper tap. With all due respect they are not the same. You have three types of taps in one set, Bottoming, Intermediate or plug, and taper. This is still the way it is today, nothing has changed.

Taper Tap --- Taper runs 8 to 10 threads.
Plug Tap --- Taper runs 3 to 5 threads.
Bottoming Tap --- Has almost no taper.

"Billy G"


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## stupoty (Oct 30, 2015)

Bill Gruby said:


> One gentleman has said that a plug tap is also known as a taper tap. With all due respect they are not the same. You have three types of taps in one set, Bottoming, Intermediate or plug, and taper.
> 
> Taper Tap --- Taper runs 8 to 10 threads.
> Plug Tap --- Taper runs 3 to 5 threads.
> ...



The taper taps are amazing for starting nice and square, it's almost easier to get it right than wrong 

Stuart


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## Swerdk (Oct 30, 2015)

Thank you guys.  Now off to work- no machinery there just a mouse and a computer. Ugh!


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## HarleyRiderNV (Oct 30, 2015)

Swerdk said:


> So bottom taps cant be used to start holes?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bottoming Taps have a much smaller lead on them (barely any at all) which helps get you to the bottom of the whole (that area that a spiral flute won't remove)

My general rule of thumb is I use Spiral Flute taps for blind holes and Spiral Point on thru hole.

Spiral Flute brings the chips up out of the hole as you tap the part.

Spiral points are only good for thru holes, if you use them on blind holes they will typically chip when you back the tap off inside the hole


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## Swerdk (Oct 30, 2015)

I did it!  I helped support the German economy.  Those little das werkzeugs are all mine... Mine mine mine 


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## NightWing (Oct 30, 2015)

A plug tap will do 90% of your tapping jobs.  Bottom taps will last much longer if only used to square up the threads at the end of a blind hole.  Spiral flute taps pull the chips out of the hole.  Spiral point, AKA gun taps, shoot the chips ahead.  Not a good choice for a blind hole unless it is super deep.


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## royesses (Oct 30, 2015)

MSC occasionally has their house brands on sale at 40% off. Hertel and Interstate come to mind. The last time I purchased about $400 worth of taps and dies, all HSS and they are very good quality. The original cost was like $700 before the discount.
If you can wait that is a great way to get what you need. Make an account with them and get on the mailing list.


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## bustamallard (Oct 31, 2015)

Swerdk said:


> Got a budget of $200 to purchase Taps. New to lathing and have been told that dies are not used nearly as often so just buy dies as needed.
> There are 3 types of taps - bottoming; plug; and taper.  Which type are the most commonly used on jobs?  Want to do mostly model engine building and improvement construction on lathe. 12x36.
> I see they are sold in sets but i assume a set for $30 is some cheep taps being one goes for $23. ( same brand too)
> 
> ...



The three types you mentioned have different amounts of "lead" or number of incomplete threads.  The bottoming tap is used to add threads to a blind hole that go almost to the bottom of the hole.  The downside is that these require a lot of torque and are not a general purpose tool.  The taper tap (sometimes called a hand tap), requires the least amount of pressure to cut, but leaves a lot of incomplete threads in the hole.  The plug tap is in between the others in terms of number of incomplete threads.  I prefer the "spiral point" style, which moves the cut chips dpwn into the hole.  If you are tapping a blind hole, you will need to pick out the chips.  This spiral point style excels at through holes.  The most common would be a straight flute plug tap.  The chips in this one collect in the flutes; you will need to "break the chips" by driving the tap forward (for let's say one turn), then then backing up.  You can hear the chips break.  This procedure makes for small chips that won't tend to pack into the flutes. These are just the most common and others are out there, but they wouldn't be a general purpose thing.  I would recommend that you get USA, European, or Japanese taps and avoid the Chinese ones.  This kind of depends on how much work you do. Good luck, I hope I have been of some help.


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## Stanshire (Oct 31, 2015)

bustamallard said:


> The three types you mentioned have different amounts of "lead" or number of incomplete threads.  The bottoming tap is used to add threads to a blind hole that go almost to the bottom of the hole.  The downside is that these require a lot of torque and are not a general purpose tool.  The taper tap (sometimes called a hand tap), requires the least amount of pressure to cut, but leaves a lot of incomplete threads in the hole.  The plug tap is in between the others in terms of number of incomplete threads.  I prefer the "spiral point" style, which moves the cut chips dpwn into the hole.  If you are tapping a blind hole, you will need to pick out the chips.  This spiral point style excels at through holes.  The most common would be a straight flute plug tap.  The chips in this one collect in the flutes; you will need to "break the chips" by driving the tap forward (for let's say one turn), then then backing up.  You can hear the chips break.  This procedure makes for small chips that won't tend to pack into the flutes. These are just the most common and others are out there, but they wouldn't be a general purpose thing.  I would recommend that you get USA, European, or Japanese taps and avoid the Chinese ones.  This kind of depends on how much work you do. Good luck, I hope I have been of some help.





Eddyde said:


> I got an Ace Hanson tap & die set for my 18th birthday (52 now). I still have all but one of the original dies and have a few of the original NF taps but all of the NC taps have been replaced several times over. As others have said, the dies were/are used manly for chasing threads, some have never been used. I rarely use it anymore as I now prefer to use machine driven taps, which I buy as needed. One thing I do is keep the each size of tap with its respective drill in a ziplock bag, you know, the ones from McMaster.


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## Stanshire (Oct 31, 2015)

In addition to the types mentioned, there are two others that I use often.
The first is a spiral flute for blind holes. The chips are pulled out of the hole. 
The other, and my favorite for smaller size holes are form taps. Unlike the other types mentioned, the form tap presses or forms the thread with no chip. They use a different tap drill size chart. My experience has been with Balax form taps and (fingers crossed), I've never broken one even at 0-80 or 1-72.


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## markknx (Oct 31, 2015)

Enco has Hertal HSS taps in 3 pc sets one each bottom, tapered, and plug, from 12-20 dollars a set from 4-40 up to 3/8-24. after that they get pricey. Almost always can find a 20% off coupon, and if your willing to wait a bit you can also get free shipping. Keep in mind it is hard to find plug and bottom taps at the big box stores.
Mark


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## atexasguy (Oct 31, 2015)

i am not qualified to give a dissertation on the correct tap for every possible application. i will point out two things however. first is that taps are made in different dimensions for tighter or looser threads and second that i have never had a cnc (necked style) tap break. that is the only style i will buy


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## BoliverShagnasti (Oct 31, 2015)

The nature of the metal determines the amount of money to spend on tap and dies.  If most of your tapping is aluminum or brass, cheap is perfect.
If you are doing stainless steel you need to buy several high end high speed steel taps and dies of the same size because they will wear out fast.

4130 4140 will wear them down as well.

I used cheap taps on aluminum and brass and they never seem to wear out.   A Chinese set for 2o bucks will outlast you with alum and brass.

Much of my "work" lately is 316 stainless because of the environment and stresses of these parts.  Brittle metal taps will break, so I don't use carbide taps.  It is better to use high quality high speed steel for stainless steel, in my opinion.  But you will need to by at least two if you have many holes to tap.  16 bucks a piece for best quality is normal for 10mm or so taps.

P.S. Bottom taps will not actually " bottom" in the hole.  This is why I use two bottom taps for holes that I need the threads to go deep.  I use a normal bottom tap , then on my grinder I make a "real" bottom tap that takes me to the actual bottom with threads and I mean threads to the bottom.  I grind it so that there is only no speck of taper on the real bottom tap.

First tap with a full taper for good cutting. Then use the normal bottom tap, then use the special custom tap with NO taper for a real bottom tap that goes all the way down with threads.

Unless you are cutting very tight threads, normal taps and dies are fine. They have some "wiggle" and gaps in the thread contact.  The only time you need super tight is if you are making a special "lead screw" and need close to no backlash.   

In machine work, if you need tighter threads it is because of extreme heat that would change the contact of the metals.


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## chips&more (Oct 31, 2015)

Stanshire said:


> In addition to the types mentioned, there are two others that I use often.
> The first is a spiral flute for blind holes. The chips are pulled out of the hole.
> The other, and my favorite for smaller size holes are form taps. Unlike the other types mentioned, the form tap presses or forms the thread with no chip. They use a different tap drill size chart. My experience has been with Balax form taps and (fingers crossed), I've never broken one even at 0-80 or 1-72.


If you’re not breaking 0-80 roll form taps. Then the tapping gods must like you! Hats off to you!


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## wawoodman (Nov 1, 2015)

Although the first part of this booklet refers to setting up a Tapmatic, there is some good information here:
http://tapmatic.com/images/pdf/Tapping Questions HB.pdf


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## Dick M (Nov 2, 2015)

All of the advice is pretty good. For general, all-around hand tapping, a plug tap is adequate. Bottoming, if you need to get down in a blind hole. Taper, if you are having trouble starting a plug. Spiral point for production (power) tapping. Also, don't forget the lube: kerosene for aluminum, sulfurized or lard for steel, dry for brass, mineral oil for wood (yes, you can tap hard woods easily). Starting a tap in a drill press or a lathe (by hand) is a nice way to get good alignment. Backing out every half turn on stringy materials to break the chip is good. Blowing chip out of bottomed holes helps, too. Don't force a tap. Don't use dull taps for new threads (OK for cleaning up, though). Get good quality tools.


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## Swarfmaster (Nov 8, 2015)

Look for a used *MADE IN USA* set on ebay.  You can do well to buy a used Blue Point on your budget.  Here are a couple of examples to bid on.  One is metric and one is SAE : 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-Point-...:g:B3QAAOSwLVZV5xfM&item=111813596142&vxp=mtr

and:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-Point-...435246?hash=item235c99bf6e:g:XrwAAOSwT5tWPS-k

It is extremely wise to invest in an aid to get your tap straight when you start tapping.  Suggest this one: 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SPRING-...335117?hash=item1e9a18cb8d:g:zHYAAOSwqu9VUP6N


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## astjp2 (Nov 8, 2015)

There are several books out there on tapping, find one and read through it.  I have tapped 7050T8651 aluminum, and had good USA taps seize and break.  I was using rapid tap and tap majic for aluminum, sometimes even a good tap will break if used in the wrong application.  Tim


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## Joe in Oz (Nov 9, 2015)

I have a set of three M6 taps that I bought in a regular German hardware store around 1969. I still usem them and they are still working really well. They do not have spiral points and are 4 fluted.
However, unlike any taps I've found and bought in English speaking countries, this set has a 'first cut' (my expression) or taper tap which cuts a very shallow thread over its full lenth above the relatively short taper section. The 'second cut' tap has next to no taper, and cuts the thread a bit deeper, but with visible flat bottoms of the thread for it's entire length. The 'final cut' tap has just one or two tapered threads at the end and cuts the final thread for its full length.
I have been able to cut very deep thread in pretty hard steel and stainless without any issues whatsoever. I also use them in a cordless drill to make deep threads. Of course they need backing out to break and clear swarf from blind holes.
Are those taps available in the US, UK or Australia, and what are they called in English?
Cheers,
Joe


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## Bill Gruby (Nov 9, 2015)

What you have is a Progressive Tap Set. Initial Cut, Intermediate Cut and Finish Cut. You need to use them all to cut full threads. You can't use just one. I have seen the sets here in the US but memory is failing me these days.

 "Billy G"


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## NightWing (Nov 9, 2015)

Commonly known as Taper, Plug and Bottoming.  Most every tapping job can be done with a plug tap.


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## Bill Gruby (Nov 9, 2015)

What he has are different NightWing in that only the last tap in the set will cut the full depth of the thread. The first two in the set cut only partial depth. As I said you need the whole set to cut a given thread. You cannot use just one of them. That type of Tap set was discussed here a while back but I cannot locate it. I will keep looking.

"Billy G"


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## Billh50 (Nov 9, 2015)

Here is a nice pdf explaining the types of taps and their best uses along with reccomended lubricants.


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## Bill Gruby (Nov 9, 2015)

The progressive tap set is not on there Bill. The originated in the European Countries. Not sure if they are available here.

 "Billy G"


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## Billh50 (Nov 9, 2015)

They don't show the sets but show the different styles that would be in the set and their individual uses. As far as I know anyway.


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## Billh50 (Nov 9, 2015)

Some places do sell sets including the taper tap, the second tap, and the bottom tap. I know grainger's sells the sets. So I am sure others do also.


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## Bill Gruby (Nov 9, 2015)

I think you are misinterpreting here. The European Sets are progressive. The first tap does not cut the whole thread to diameter, nor does the second (intermediate). They each cut to a percentage of the thread diameter. Only the last one (finish) can cut to the full diameter. I have yet to see them available in this country. They were made to ease the work the individual taps had to do, especially on small sizes. I believe the nomenclature is Starter, Intermediate and Finish. Don't quote me on that one.

"Billy G"


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## Billh50 (Nov 9, 2015)

OHHHH.... I never heard of those before....only sets I knew of where the one's I mentioned.


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## Bill Gruby (Nov 9, 2015)

The post by "Joe in Oz" describes them. Last post on page 2 of this thread. I have been trying to find a vendor that has then for a while now with no luck.

 "Billy G"


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## Tony Wells (Nov 9, 2015)

That kind of like the roughing and finishing taps of an Acme, Bill?

I've done a hack job of hand grinding a UN tap when doing tough materials like Inconel or Monel in such a way that the peaks of the form are truncated, but still have a back relief. If I get about 50% of the thread height, then a factory grind has a much easier time of it. Plus it's a use for dull taps.


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## Bill Gruby (Nov 9, 2015)

I know about those for Acme Tony. The ones "Joe in Oz" spoke of cannot be found here for some odd reason. I PM'd him to get the manufacturers name. These taps would make Inconel or Stellite much easier to handle.

 "Billy G"


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## Tony Wells (Nov 9, 2015)

I've never seen them sold here either. Sure would be nice with some materials.


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## Bill Gruby (Nov 9, 2015)

QUESTION  --- How the heck can something like this exist in other countries and we here in the US can't get them? It makes no sense.

 "Billy G"


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## Bill Gruby (Nov 9, 2015)

Thanks to Joe in OZ here they are. I have to get some of these sets. Run your cursor over each tap and see how they work. Thank you so much Joe.

  "Billy G"

https://www.hoffmann-group.com/US/en/toolcrib/Mono-machining/Taps/Hand-tap-set-M1-GARANT/p/130150-M6


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## Bill C. (Nov 9, 2015)

I have ground off the point on taps since it was for the sharpening new taps. That gave me a little more thread depth.  I have heard of plug taps but for pipe threads. Never used one for production. I usually would grab a SHCS that was as long as the hole was to be threaded to test the actual depth. I would use a depth micrometer or dial caliper to check the length the screw's thread.


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## Tony Wells (Nov 9, 2015)

Those look about like the ones I was hand grinding. Never knew they were factory anywhere. I wonder if they are available in UN.

Bill, I think we're talking about two things. You're talking about length of usable thread (or depth in a hole) and we are talking about the thread height, the difference between major and minor diameters. If you grind the OD of a tap, you aren't cutting to full height and the load is much less, plus the tap is a lot stronger because the "tips" are wider and not sharp points, or minimal flats.


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## Billh50 (Nov 9, 2015)

I bet someone with tool grinder could alter a set of taps to do that.


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## Bill Gruby (Nov 9, 2015)

I am talking about the same thing. Not wording it correctly. As you see from the link those tape are progressive in diameter or thread height.

 "Billy G"


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## Dan_S (Nov 9, 2015)

Bill has it right, they are a 3 pass system. Adom Booth showed using a set a while ago on YouTube. One makes a roughing pass, the next cleans out more material, and the final one takes a light finishing cut.


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## ptomli (Nov 9, 2015)

Typically called "serial taps"


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## Billh50 (Nov 9, 2015)

That would be real nice for larger taps to make it easier tapping by hand. One could even make it a 4 tap set if needed.


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## Dan_S (Nov 9, 2015)

Narex (makes woodworking tools as well) makes them as well.

https://www.narexzd.cz/en/hand-taps/

You can find them on eBay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/171539943315?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82


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## Billh50 (Nov 9, 2015)

Dan_S said:


> Narex (makes woodworking tools as well) makes them as well.
> 
> https://www.narexzd.cz/en/hand-taps/
> 
> ...



the photos of those do not look like serial taps though.


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## Billh50 (Nov 9, 2015)

Here's a set of serial taps and dies with handles and gage on ebay. The set has 7 different metric size taps.  GBP 29.00 Approximately US $43.73

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HSS-32-PIEC...383185?hash=item1ea6519491:g:qCQAAOSwRLZUDbzr


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## Dan_S (Nov 9, 2015)

Billh50 said:


> the photos of those do not look like serial taps though.



not all of them on eBay are, but a lot of them are. Like these for example, they show  how the thread form changes between the taps.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-BSW-1-2...563142?hash=item27f2c295c6:g:vz4AAMXQDfdRrHlf


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## The Liberal Arts Garage (Nov 9, 2015)

Try one of those handy pocket tap alignment  widgets-- if you get the first
two turns perfectly straight, the rest will go easy........BLJHB.


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## John Hasler (Nov 9, 2015)

The Liberal Arts Garage said:


> Try one of those handy pocket tap alignment  widgets-- if you get the first
> two turns perfectly straight, the rest will go easy........BLJHB.


Could you explain or post a link?


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## atunguyd (Nov 9, 2015)

A tip for the OP.  When (not if) you break a tap in aluminum or any other non ferrous metal and want to remove the broken tap get yourself some nitric acid. 1 minute in the acid and the tap will dissolve away but the aluminum will remain unscathed (actually cleaner). 
If you can't get nitric acid then alum (pickling lime) will do the same but will take about 2 weeks. 

On a side note, if for some reason you have a piece of aluminum stuck in a steel part that you need removed you can dissolve the aluminum with caustic soda which will not effect the steel. 

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk


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## turnitupper (Nov 9, 2015)

Joe in Oz said:


> I have a set of three M6 taps that I bought in a regular German hardware store around 1969. I still usem them and they are still working really well. They do not have spiral points and are 4 fluted.
> However, unlike any taps I've found and bought in English speaking countries, this set has a 'first cut' (my expression) or taper tap which cuts a very shallow thread over its full lenth above the relatively short taper section. The 'second cut' tap has next to no taper, and cuts the thread a bit deeper, but with visible flat bottoms of the thread for it's entire length. The 'final cut' tap has just one or two tapered threads at the end and cuts the final thread for its full length.
> I have been able to cut very deep thread in pretty hard steel and stainless without any issues whatsoever. I also use them in a cordless drill to make deep threads. Of course they need backing out to break and clear swarf from blind holes.
> Are those taps available in the US, UK or Australia, and what are they called in English?
> ...


Joe, 
In Australia, Ausee Machines & Tools in Dandenong  sell these type of taps. Just ordered a set of 2.5mm for a carbide insert holder I am making as HSS taps break in the mystery steel I am using. Hope these work.
John.


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## Charles Spencer (Nov 9, 2015)

John Hasler said:


> Could you explain or post a link?



I made a simple device to start taps on a drill press.  I do it manually, not under power.  If you drill the hole with the same press, then the tap is obviously going to be aligned with the hole:


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## Eddyde (Nov 10, 2015)

For starting hand tapps in a drill press,
I snug the tap in the chuck but not too tight, turn the motor on, bring the tap down right above the hole,then turn the motor off and send the tap into the hole. Works for #8--10 and above, may work for smaller sizes but I haven tried.


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## tmarks11 (Nov 11, 2015)

The Liberal Arts Garage said:


> Try one of those handy pocket tap alignment  widgets-- if you get the first
> two turns perfectly straight, the rest will go easy........BLJHB.


He is probably talking about something like this (tap alignment tool):


The piece on the left makes sure the tap handle (inserted through the hole in the top) is kept perpendicular to the workpiece.  Makes for a nice little project to turn one of those alignment tools on your lathe.

http://www.projectsinmetal.com/free...handle-tap-wrench-tapping-fixture-lathe-mill/

If it is project allows, using a spring center in your mill or drill press works better. 



Description here:
http://www.projectsinmetal.com/free-project-plan-spring-center-metal-lathe-mill/


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