# Concerns Regarding Lincoln Welder Quality



## borris (Jul 13, 2016)

Concerns regarding Lincoln Quality. I have owned various Lincoln welding machines over the past 40 years. I have always considered Lincoln to be the Quality and Technology Leader in the welding equipment area, at least until this year. Over the last three months both my Lincoln Ranger 8 Diesel and my Lincoln Power Mig 350MP failed. In the case of the Ranger 8, the main circuit board overheated and burned. With the Lincoln Power Mig 350mp, the Feeder Head Circuit Board failed with no signs of any overheating or burning. Neither of these machines had extensive use, were kept indoors and cared for very well. Both machines are well out of warranty. 

The good part is that I was able to trouble shoot the problem and repair them myself with a little help from Lincoln Technical Service. The bad part is that the replacement boards were hard to find and extremely expensive. (Could have purchased nice used welders for the cost of the replacement circuit boards). I understand that circuit board failures can happen however two machines in a short time indicates a quality issue regarding Lincoln electronics. 

What is the experience rate for PC board failures on Newer Welding equipment? Is Miller or Hobart quality any better and should I switch from Red to Blue? Need some input?


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## dlane (Jul 14, 2016)

All my metal melting stuff is blue, but it's all over 20 yrs old.
Ied look at where it's made nowadayes, reviews !!, ied Craig's it.
Good luck


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## Rootpass (Jul 14, 2016)

Almost all industrial jobs use Millers. Most rental companies rent Millers. But having said that I've seen a brand new Miller bobcat ,zero hours first time starting it, spew oil out the side of the block. And I pulled a brand new Miller Maxstar 200 out of the box at work and plugged it in. Powered it on and it showed and immediate failure code. The company returned it and got a new one.
I was told by a Redi Arc repair center(take it for what it's worth) that Miller engineers spec the parts for a certain failure rate, i.e. 1 in a million, and then the accountants say "well we found the same part for half price but the failure rate is 1 in 500,000". So they buy the cheaper ones. Every part of their machines is done that way.
The days of Lincoln being the industry leader and innovator that they were I think are over. Don't buy a Lincoln made in Italy. That's pretty much universal advise from repair techs. Parts are different from the models made in the USA.
I think like most things it's a crap shoot. I find the Millers much more user friendly but I love and own Lincoln. Nostalgia? Probably. Lol I have a Lincoln Pro 350 for tig and stick and an ln25(built proof) for MIG. And and old tig/tig 300 for ac tig. Great machine and I bought it for the price of the repair bill ($275) that someone didn't pay and abandoned the machine.


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## Firestopper (Jul 14, 2016)

I have owned Miller machines for many decades and replace them when a newer model offers substantial technology improvements. Over the years, I have only had one circuit board failure and was back in service after $200. I still own a Lincoln 100 (110 vac) from 1993 that has run miles and miles of flux core 10# spools that has never missed a beat.
I do have friends in the welding business that has had major board failures  on their Miller 350P. My Miller 350P is still going strong but I know its a matter of time. 

If you know your circuit board P/N, you might find a cheaper (OEM) board on eBay from a seller with good feedback. Newer machines are awesome, but have a greater failure rate then older units. I'm sure it all "planned obsolescence" on ALL manufactures. 
These machines are damn expensive these days and its upsetting when a 40 cent resistor or other cheap component renders a circuit board useless. 

In the end, it boils down to how much tech support you get on a machine with no warrantee.


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## borris (Jul 22, 2016)

Thanks everyone:   Here are my conclusions after talking with Lincoln Customer Service, an electrical engineer, and members of this forum.  Let me know if this sounds about right? :

1.  Newer machines be it Miller or Lincoln are more prone to failure due to their advanced electronics over the older transformer machines.
2. Miller or Lincoln seem to be roughly the same in quality and support.  Some people like the Blue and some people like the Red.
3. Certain machines are more prone to failure then others. 
4. My electrical engineer friend says circuit boards can fail with age even with low hours.  Usually the dielectric capacitors dry out or start to change chemical composition leading to shorts.
5. Parts are very expensive for blue or red especially circuit boards.


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## JimDawson (Jul 23, 2016)

borris said:


> Let me know if this sounds about right? :



I would say that is a good analysis. I'm just gonna keep my 25 year old SyncroWave with 250 lbs of copper in it.


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## GA Gyro (Jul 23, 2016)

Yeah... I have an old Ranger 8 (vintage 1999) purchased new.  The circuit board has issues, however it still works.

Need to find a replacement board for it... anyone know of a place they are available...
Can get the serial off the unit if that helps.

THX in advance.

GA


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## Ulma Doctor (Jul 23, 2016)

i have owned all 3- Blue, Red and White.
i still have a Lincoln 125sp that is my dedicated SS machine for light sheet repair and light fab, i can get spray transfer out of the little guy- it's solid as the dollar used to be.
My Miller Idealarc 250P, will work long after i'm dead- there are no boards to fail.
Honorable mentions to my POWCON's too, i have 300 amp and 200 amp units that are old, but solid operators that sign beautiful inverter songs to you while being used
the hobart  unit i used at work in my youth was a good quality mig- but that was long ago


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## Ironken (Jul 26, 2016)

Just opinion here......I used to run all Lincoln. Tech support and returned calls were spotty. When I purchased my Millermatic 252, The Lincoln Power Mig 256 was on my short list. The Miller is assembled in the USA and the Lincoln in Mexico. For me, that did it! Red's all gone and my shop is blue now. Miller has some great resources as well and I've had better luck with Millers tech support. 

I have a Millermatic 190 (oddly enough this machine gets the most use in my shop) that gets abused without a wimper compared to my Powermig 180C that I could make call uncle pretty easily.

My 252 is dedicated to spray and doesn't break a sweat......I'm not laying down 12" welds with it....but, I'm not nice to it either.

I was very happy with my Ranger 305G but prefer the Miller Trailblazer's features. If I decide to go portable again, the Miller will be my choice.

Again, just my opinion.


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## gr8legs (Jul 28, 2016)

In the shop I'm pretty much manufacturer neutral on welding machines - I've got both red and blue - 

but I made the mistake of buying a Millermatic 250X brand new when they first came out (thinking I was upgrading from a CK Systematics 175 - boy was I wrong!) many years ago. 

Turned out the Miller didn't start worth a darn - kinda crept its way up to the set point welding current for the first couple of seconds - made it challenging to say the least -

and when I tried to get Miller's attention the silence was deafening.

Talking to a few other 250X owners it seemed to be a design problem - and the 251 and 252 came out really shortly - but no recourse for us poor slobs who got the 250X's. 

So, now I know who not to buy my next machine from. Zero customer support, zero new business. 

Stu


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## Ironken (Jul 28, 2016)

gr8legs said:


> In the shop I'm pretty much manufacturer neutral on welding machines - I've got both red and blue -
> 
> but I made the mistake of buying a Millermatic 250X brand new when they first came out (thinking I was upgrading from a CK Systematics 175 - boy was I wrong!) many years ago.
> 
> ...



I missed the 250X and 251 s**t show......glad I did! I did use a MM250 that was bullet proof though.


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## Randall Marx (Jul 28, 2016)

I've never used a Lincoln or Hobart MIG machine, but my Millermatic 250 is bulletproof and deadly! Never a problem out of it, even after miles of wire laid down. I'm not easy on it either, but do make sure all of the adjustments are good and clean it out once in a while with a blow gun.


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