# The frustrating hunt for machines



## MontanaLon (Apr 11, 2019)

So I decided to get back into machining and decided to look for a lathe and a mill. Started out looking at new machines and everything could afford wouldn't be able to handle the size projects I have in mind. Plus they are all made in China and I'd really rather not contribute to the trade deficit. So I started looking for used machines on facebook marketplace and then branched out to Craigslist. 

What I am finding there is that I live in a machinery desert. There are few machines within 100 miles. And that leads to price inflation. I'm talking $2,000 for a Craftsman lathe. But what is really puzzling is there are larger machines in similar shape for half that. 

My problem is the larger machines would be too large to shoehorn into my basement even if I could transport them to the house in the first place. Not to mention the parts for older larger machines are in some cases impossible to find new and cost as much as the entire machine used if you can find them. I'm OK with a fixer upper, but it still has to stay within the budget. 

The really frustrating part is when I look further away, I see more machines and better prices, but by the time I could get there someone else has shown up with cash and taken it. 

I am pulling my hair out and getting discouraged. Tempted to up the budget and buy more than I can afford but I know as soon as I do that, I will see exactly what I am looking for with all the attachments ever made, which is like brand new, only used on Sundays by grandpa who lovingly cared for it and kept it oiled and in tip top shape. 

So where else can I look for what I desire? Old American iron, not worn out or left rusting in the back 40 for the last decade, not huge, but not a toy either, something that can move some metal and make some chips, even to make the parts it needs for repairs to get it back into shape again.


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## ThinWoodsman (Apr 11, 2019)

Doesn't look like much of a desert - a lot more lathes on sale (and in much better condition) on the IL CraigsList than VT/NH/MA right now. Good prices too.

As for "but by the time I could get there someone else has shown up with cash and taken it", call the seller and talk to them. You'd be amazed what *******tting about machining for fifteen or so minutes can accomplish. After some friendly conversation, ask "so, what would it take for you to hold that machine for me until I get there?" Some guys are pretty good about this. Others, well, just don't deal with that sort, they're likely just opportunitsts anyways.

EDIT: Wow, you can't spell out BSing? What has the world ******* come to


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## pontiac428 (Apr 11, 2019)

MontanaLon, you are really in the heart of America for finding good used machines.  Check the dozen or so large, online machinery liquidators and pick out some goods.  If you're willing to travel a few hours, you'll find you have more of a selection than the rest of the country combined.

I would not rely on Craigslist for finding equipment.  Sometimes stuff comes up, but dealers get the good stuff first.  Dealers are cheaper than CL too.


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## cjtoombs (Apr 11, 2019)

Try ebay.  You generaly have to buy the item without looking at it, but the prices can be pretty good if you are patient.  You don't have to worry about someone else comming to pick it up if you buy it on ebay.  I've bought  a number of machine tools on ebay and have done pretty well.  Just know what you are getting into, if it doesn't have a drive, that means you have to fabricate one.  Atlas/Craftsman machines tend to be relatively cheap and well supported in terms of parts availability on ebay (you may have to wait a while for reasonable prices, though).


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## projectnut (Apr 11, 2019)

The area you are in is far from a machinery desert.  It's less than 100 miles from Pontiac to downtown Chicago, and less than 150 miles to Davenport.  Looking at the Craigslist adds from both cities I see Clausing lathes and Burke milling machines  for less than $2000.00.  There's even a small Craftsman lathe with an asking price of $600.00
You have to be willing to have a fairly wide search area to find machines at reasonable prices. I have traveled from Madison Wisconsin to the Chicago area to purchase machines over the years.  I've also gone in the other direction to Milwaukee, Oshkosh, and Waupaca Wisconsin.

In most cases I was lucky as far as prices were concerned.  I was buying during the height of the recession.  There weren't many customers, and there were a lot of shops upgrading to stay competitive.  In the last couple years since the economy has improved machine prices have increased somewhat, but here are still plenty of bargains to be found.  They key is patience and perseverance.
Look for online auction and sales sites like Public Surplus Auctions.  Here's a link to the Illinois Public Service Auction site.  You can choose any state you'd like.




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						Public Surplus: Government Surplus Auctions
					

Public Surplus is the best government surplus auction system available.  Find great deals on heavy equipment, cars, buses and even airplanes.




					www.publicsurplus.com
				




There are also state surplus auction sites like this one for Wisconsin:


			Wisconsin Surplus Online Auction
		


Then there are the University surplus sites like this one for the University of Wisconsin:




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						UW SWAP Online Auction
					

UW SWAP Online Auction




					swapauction.wisc.edu
				




Beyond that I would look to high schools, technical colleges, and local machine shops.


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## MontanaLon (Apr 11, 2019)

Excellent information everyone. I may need to widen my search a bit. And maybe tweak the budget and put a bigger door into the basement. I'd really rather stay away from a full size mill. A Clausing 8525 size mill would be perfect. Just finding one that size is proving to be hard.

Maybe loosening my machine choices a bit would help. Guess I need to decide how important it is to me to get something rather than exactly what I want.


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## cjtoombs (Apr 11, 2019)

MontanaLon said:


> Excellent information everyone. I may need to widen my search a bit. And maybe tweak the budget and put a bigger door into the basement. I'd really rather stay away from a full size mill. A Clausing 8525 size mill would be perfect. Just finding one that size is proving to be hard.
> 
> Maybe loosening my machine choices a bit would help. Guess I need to decide how important it is to me to get something rather than exactly what I want.



Based on my experience, the main thing about buying a machine is, is it ready to run?  Do I have to remotor/rewire with a VFD, is it an old lineshaft machine that comes with no drive?  Is it missing parts or have broken parts that I have to replace/fabricate?  Just be aware of how much work you are buying with a given machine.  Also, accesories and tooling can be worth more than the machine and can be had at great bargains on CL when bought with the machine.  When you look at the listing and the price seems high, don't dismiss it until you inventory the stuff that comes with it.  Tooling is an ongoing expense, and if you can take a big bite out of it with the machine purchase, you are way ahead.


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## macardoso (Apr 11, 2019)

HGR inc. is located in cleveland. Not particularly close, but is a treasure trove of used machines. Got my 12x36 in excellent condition there for $1100. A 2 day Uhaul tow behind might add $100 + gas.


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## markba633csi (Apr 11, 2019)

Lon how long have you been looking?  Sometimes you find you're in a dry spell, but they pass eventually. Also, you are absolutely right about the small "cute" machines commanding higher prices.  Keep looking and be prepared to move quickly
Mark


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## MontanaLon (Apr 11, 2019)

macardoso said:


> HGR inc. is located in cleveland. Not particularly close, but is a treasure trove of used machines. Got my 12x36 in excellent condition there for $1100. A 2 day Uhaul tow behind might add $100 + gas.


I will check them out.


markba633csi said:


> Lon how long have you been looking?  Sometimes you find you're in a dry spell, but they pass eventually. Also, you are absolutely right about the small "cute" machines commanding higher prices.  Keep looking and be prepared to move quickly
> Mark


Been a couple of months. Was funny, the day I started looking there were 2 South Bends posted within 50 miles. 9A's one of them was pretty crappy looking but had lots of accessories, the other was nice looking but was just the lathe like the person had traded up. One of them for $400 and the other was $300. I figured deals like that would pop up regularly so I kept scrolling down the list. By the time I circled back, 15 minutes later they were both sold. Still kicking myself over those. Pretty sure I have seen them both relisted since then at $1500-$2000 which is really at the extreme top end of what I am willing to spend on a lathe.


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## mickri (Apr 11, 2019)

Try using https://www.searchtempest.com/  for searching on CL.  You can set the distance to search in and everything within that radius listed on CL will pop up in one search.  I use it all the time when I am looking for stuff.


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## Cooter Brown (Apr 11, 2019)

I bought a few great used machines from Indiana for good prices....


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## jwmay (Apr 11, 2019)

I’m from southern Illinois, and can identify with you. There are a lot of machines in Chicago usually, for fair prices. I bought my lathe and mill in Kentucky, which was a 8 hour rip s trip drive. I bought a shaper 4 hours north.  It did take a few months to find them. Just be patient. They’ll turn up.


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## ThinWoodsman (Apr 11, 2019)

MontanaLon said:


> Been a couple of months. Was funny, the day I started looking there were 2 South Bends posted within 50 miles. ... Pretty sure I have seen them both relisted since then at $1500-$2000 which is really at the extreme top end of what I am willing to spend on a lathe.



Winter is a very poor time to look for machines. Spring is a great time. You're probably going to see quite a lot coming for sale over the next couple of months.

South Bends are a well-known brand and command a very high price because of it. Atlas is another over-priced band. These things often attract as many collectors as actual users. Keep an eye out for Logan lathes - in fact one might say you're in Logan country. If you're talking about a benchtop (10" swing or less) then under 1K should be quite feasible.


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## MontanaLon (Apr 12, 2019)

ThinWoodsman said:


> Winter is a very poor time to look for machines. Spring is a great time. You're probably going to see quite a lot coming for sale over the next couple of months.
> 
> South Bends are a well-known brand and command a very high price because of it. Atlas is another over-priced band. These things often attract as many collectors as actual users. Keep an eye out for Logan lathes - in fact one might say you're in Logan country. If you're talking about a benchtop (10" swing or less) then under 1K should be quite feasible.


I am hoping spring cleaning and auction season kicks in pretty quick.

I learned on a South Bend like most everyone I imagine. Part of my problem is that as I see other brands and models show up I go to research them and it takes time but has probably saved me from jumping on some "good deals" that would have been a nightmare to correct any issues or ended up costing more than I want to spend to make right. 

I am learning what to avoid slowly but surely. 

Right now I am looking at a Logan 200 for $1,000. 3j & 4j, change gears, faceplates, Kennedy tool box, couple of mics, couple of indicators, couple of Armstrong style tool holders, couple of insert tool holders, probably 50 inserts and some other assorted tool box dross that may actually be worthwhile eventually.

Another is a 1920's SB 13" that comes with a chuck and a lantern tool post. It is really old school but seems to be in good shape if I can ever get the seller to let me come see it. I can see it being a bit more work and a lot more expense to get running. But I can see it cleaned and polished up and moving on down the road to help finance more machines later on. 

I'm sick, I thought BRD was bad, now I am fixing up and selling off stuff I haven't even seen in person. I think my wife will at some point be begging me to go back to buying guns instead of tools.


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## Nogoingback (Apr 12, 2019)

ThinWoodsman said:


> South Bends are a well-known brand and command a very high price because of it. Atlas is another over-priced band. These things often attract as many collectors as actual users. Keep an eye out for Logan lathes - in fact one might say you're in Logan country. If you're talking about a benchtop (10" swing or less) then under 1K should be quite feasible.



If you decide to look for a Logan, try to find an 11" or larger one.  The spindle bore is quite a bit larger than the one on the 10" machines.   New parts are also available for Logans, which makes them easier to support.


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## MontanaLon (Apr 12, 2019)

Nogoingback said:


> If you decide to look for a Logan, try to find an 11" or larger one.  The spindle bore is quite a bit larger than the one on the 10" machines.   New parts are also available for Logans, which makes them easier to support.


Yes, I saw that while I was researching the Logan. It is nice to have a source for parts but holy smokes they are sure proud of those pieces. But it is nice to know that if I find a lathe that needs one piece to live again, there are parts out there to be had. Makes the "broken" lathe easier to haggle the price down on.


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## Nogoingback (Apr 12, 2019)

Everybody complains about Logan's prices, and you're right, they are steep.  BUT, they're selling spare parts for 75 year old machines in small quantities.  When was the last time you could walk into the dealer and buy parts a 1945 Ford?
I also know some are their parts are made to order: I bought a cross feed screw for mine and Scott had it machined for me.
When I overhauled mine a few years ago, they had every part I needed except some castings, which came  from eBay and a forum member.  So, despite the cost, in the end I was thankful that I could get those parts and bring my machine "back from the dead".   With most of the old brands, that isn't possible.


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## toploader (Apr 12, 2019)

I spent five years looking for a horizontal boring mill that wasn’t bigger then my house. I finally had to bite the bullet on a larger then I wanted machine. 

I also found three machines at the same time on my want list.  

Be patient and check all the avenues you can. The right machines will come along.


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## macardoso (Apr 12, 2019)

I might be an odd duck on this forum, but don't discount an import machine that is being sold at a good price. Depends if you are a user or collector I guess.

I got my 94' Enco lathe which was basically brand new except for some dirt and replacement belts. I've made tons of accurate and quality parts. No it isn't a SB or an Atlas, but it was up and running a week after I got it and it does the work I need at the budget I wanted.

Edit: Also, spare parts are cheap and easy to find.


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## projectnut (Apr 12, 2019)

I think you not only need to broaden your physical search area, but also the brands and sizes of machines you are looking for.  The ones you've mentioned so far are at the top of every hobby machinists list and therefore are harder to find and more expensive.  

Personally when looking for a certain type of machine first on my list is condition, second is price, and third is location.  Most of the machines in my shop are not the most recognizable brands, but they are all in excellent condition, and have needed few if any repairs or improvements over the years.  I looked for over 2 years for a vertical mill before finding one that was acceptable.  Originally I was looking for a Tree brand machine.  We had several at work and they worked day in and day out with almost no problems whatsoever.  During that time I found several machines, but like you I found them to be either too expensive, or in such poor shape they would cost more to refurbish than I was willing to spend.

At a little over the 2 year mark I ran across a Bridgeport J2J.  It was way down on my list of machines, but was in good shape at a good price.  I made the leap and have never looked back.  In the 20 or so years I've had the machine I haven't had to put $500.00 into it for repairs or upgrades.  I've probably spent triple that amount or more on tooling.  The truth be known I probably have more money in tooling than the machine itself.

Other machines in the shop include a Startrite H175 horizontal bandsaw, a Sanford MG surface grinder, a Seneca Falls Star #20 lathe, a US Machine Tools horizontal mill, a Racine 66W2 power hacksaw, and a Sheldon MW-56-P lathe.  There are many other machines in the shop, but very few people are interested in or have ever heard of most of these brands of machine tools.  As such they were in excellent condition and came at bargain prices.

Like you I have my shop in the basement.  Each and every one of the machines were disassembled in the garage, cleaned, hauled down the stairs piece by piece, and reassembled.  The only 2 machines that required any assistance were the Sheldon Lathe and the Bridgeport mill.  The column on the mill weighs a bit over 1,000 lbs., and the headstock cabinet for the Sheldon weighs about the same.  I hired a local moving company to take those 2 pieces from the garage, through the house, and down the stairs to the shop.  Other than that I carried everything else over the same path by myself using an appliance dolly.

I helps a lot to establish a network within the machining community when looking for machines.  You might want to visit a few small shops in your area and tell them what you're looking for.  Leave them a business card.  Over time it's possible they or someone they know will be interested in selling a machine.  Most machines coming out of small shops aren't something high production shops would be interested.  As such most of these machines go to the hobbyists, or scrappers.

I forgot to mention in my previous post another good source for machine tools is government or military auctions.


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## matthewsx (Apr 12, 2019)

I can feel your pain, never should have sold that Gorton 1-22 but i couldn't figure out a way to fit it into my garage with wife's and mom's cars

I still have my old Seneca Falls Star 9x5 lathe that I've spent the winter fixing up but now I know it's limitations. Been looking for a small vertical mill but good ones are like finding hen's teeth and it's hard to justify spending $3k on something you know will need work. 

The auctions and dealers mostly have huge machines, or if anything our size is available it looks all beat to heck. You really need to know how to evaluate machines like that unless you're paying scrap prices, even at that when you factor in moving it you might still get burned. It starts to make sense to just go with a new import machine from somebody like Grizzly or PM.

I've gotten to the point where I'm going to try making my own mill/drill from pieces I've sourced cheap. It might not ever work right but at least I'll learn something along the way. 

There's definitely some gems out there, probably mostly owned by folks on a forum like this one. You definitely want the tool that a retired tool maker used in their hobby shop and comes with a bunch of knowledge along with tooling. I figure if I wait long enough there will be a guy just down the road from me who realizes it's time to liquidate his personal stash and maybe I'll even get setup help/instruction in the deal.

Cheers,

John


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## dcsleep (Apr 12, 2019)

Not sure if you're aware of Lost Creek Machine in Ottawa, IL.

You could also try following Mr. Pete around (he lives in Streator). He's always finding good deals at local auctions!


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## MontanaLon (Apr 12, 2019)

dcsleep said:


> Not sure if you're aware of Lost Creek Machine in Ottawa, IL.
> 
> You could also try following Mr. Pete around (he lives in Streator). He's always finding good deals at local auctions!


Yeah, I have talked to MrPete a bit, need to get back in touch with him. I was unaware of Lost Creek Machine, I will definitely have to stop by. They have a Clausing 8530 and they deliver.


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## HarryJM (Apr 16, 2019)

There currently is a Sheldon lathe for sale on OWWM.org located in St. Lousi, MO. You have to join in order to see the Classified Forums. Another place to look is http://vintagemachinery.org/classifieds/ads.aspx.

I have had success in putting a Craigslist “Wanted to buy add” under their tools for sale section. I will usually list what I am looking for and may also include some generic pictures.

Good luck,


Harry


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## astjp2 (Apr 17, 2019)

I picked up an early to mid 80's jet 1325 from Tiawan for $1k, the machine is real clean, I am upgrading it to an aloris bxa qctp, Newall DRO, lever 5c collet closer, I still need to get a 4 jaw and a face plate, it is set up for 220 and its a shorter lathe and most work I am planning on doing is within 6" of the spindle.  Someday I will get going on scraping in my rockwell 11x36, it has every option and then some and will get the Newall DRO also.  It was wore out, but I was able to get a new bed for it and a new QC gear box.  I still have a few metric transposing gears to get but now I just need to force myself to clean it up and get it rebuilt.  Tim


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## ezduzit (Apr 17, 2019)

MontanaLon said:


> ...by the time I could get there someone else has shown up with cash and taken it...



When you get serious about buying a machine you will have your cash already set aside and will be ready to pounce on a deal when it presents itself. Waiting around for a more opportune time to go look at it is not how it's done.


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## BGHansen (Apr 17, 2019)

Here are some CL listings for your area.  I use the CL/eBay/Amazon search engine www.searchtempest.com.  Plug in your zip code, price range, distance you're willing to drive and your search key words.

Hang in there and something will show up.  I'd been looking on and off for 5 years for a Bridgeport when a nice one showed up 30 miles away.  New gets you what you want now, but as you mention the net is dollars leaving the US and heading to China.  That being said, I have a Clausing lathe that was made in Kalamazoo, MI and a Grizzly from China.  I have no complaints about either lathe.

Bruce


https://quadcities.craigslist.org/tls/d/orion-10x24-clausing-metal-lathe/6868314547.html 
https://springfield.craigslist.org/tls/d/ionia-jet-13x40-metal-lathe/6864507437.html 
https://carbondale.craigslist.org/tls/d/nashville-lathe/6863696960.html 
https://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/d/alma-metal-lathe/6863397710.html 
https://springfield.craigslist.org/tls/d/seymour-metal-lathe-with-stand/6850779072.html 
https://springfield.craigslist.org/tls/d/springfield-10x30-metal-lathe/6833553362.html


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## MontanaLon (Apr 17, 2019)

ezduzit said:


> When you get serious about buying a machine you will have your cash already set aside and will be ready to pounce on a deal when it presents itself. Waiting around for a more opportune time to go look at it is not how it's done.


Oh, I have the cash. Even told a guy I was on the way to pick up a machine in Wisconsin on the phone.  I saw it at noon on lunch and it was the third one on the page so hadn't been up long, called the guy said I wanted it, called my boss and took a half day off, called the guy back and said I was on the way and would be there in 4 hours, loaded up the tool box and started driving. Hit the bank on the way out of town and took out $2,000. It was a very nice SB10 with all the original accessories and a bunch of tooling including the milling adapter QCTP and collet chuck for $1,900. It wasn't pristine but it had obviously been taken care of. Guy said he had bought it in the 70's and had used it in the farm shop until he retired in the 90's and then it had set in the shed since unused.

Got 2 hours from home and got the call from him another guy showed up and gave him $200 more for the machine than he was asking when he told him it was already sold to me.


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## jwmay (Apr 17, 2019)

That is a pretty rare thing to happen. That sucks. But it’s not common. You’ll get more chances. The good news is that you now have the cash in hand.


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## astjp2 (Apr 17, 2019)

jwmay said:


> That is a pretty rare thing to happen. That sucks. But it’s not common. You’ll get more chances. The good news is that you now have the cash in hand.


It happens a lot, probably more than you realize, lots of craigslist scum out there...actually probably not scum, more like flakes...


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## WCraig (Apr 18, 2019)

Not just sellers that are flakey.  I listed a woodworking shaper and had a guy contact me.  He was eager to buy, only haggled a little on the price, had plans to make kitchen doors with it and said that he just needed to arrange to get his brother-in-law to help fetch.  Never heard from him again.  

Anybody want a light duty shaper?  

Craig


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## projectnut (Apr 18, 2019)

MontanaLon said:


> Oh, I have the cash. Even told a guy I was on the way to pick up a machine in Wisconsin on the phone.  I saw it at noon on lunch and it was the third one on the page so hadn't been up long, called the guy said I wanted it, called my boss and took a half day off, called the guy back and said I was on the way and would be there in 4 hours, loaded up the tool box and started driving. Hit the bank on the way out of town and took out $2,000. It was a very nice SB10 with all the original accessories and a bunch of tooling including the milling adapter QCTP and collet chuck for $1,900. It wasn't pristine but it had obviously been taken care of. Guy said he had bought it in the 70's and had used it in the farm shop until he retired in the 90's and then it had set in the shed since unused.
> 
> Got 2 hours from home and got the call from him another guy showed up and gave him $200 more for the machine than he was asking when he told him it was already sold to me.



Sorry to hear about your experience.  I've purchased several machines listed on Craigslist and never had any experiences like that.  In fact several times just the opposite.  When inspecting a couple machines the seller offered a considerably lower price before I made any input as to the condition of the machine or offering a price.  
Although you had a bad experience it might have a silver lining.  I would be willing to bet that if the seller was sleazy enough to sell the machine for a higher price after he already committed to your offer he probably would have changed the price after you showed up and also misrepresented the condition of the machine.

Here are a few more auction sites that deal in industrial machinery, including machining equipment from both government entities and private businesses.  Most are national businesses holding auctions in a variety of locations.









						Government Surplus Auctions - govdeals.com
					

GovDeals' online marketplace provides services to government, educational, and related entities for the sale of surplus assets to the public. Auction rules may vary across sellers.




					www.govdeals.com
				








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Click here to find used tractors, excavators, cranes, forklifts, lathes, presses, trucks, and trailers on Machinio.




					www.machinio.com
				








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## tmenyc (Apr 18, 2019)

I agree, not even getting the chance to match the later bid sucks but is rare.   I'm writing to add to the chorus about going for a Logan. Granted, as a complete newbie I reeled in the mythical retired shop teachers pride and joy within 15 miles of my home, but having warrantied replacement parts available for a 1943 820 is a huge advantage. Sure they're pricey, but my QCTP t-bolt came milled for the model! Finally, all that stuff published by South Bend is really good, and available, and translating it to the Logan is usually a matter of degree, not kind. 
Keep at it.

Tim


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## Coomba (Apr 18, 2019)

Have you tried Surplus Record Machinery. They are located in the Chicago area, and have many lathes and mill for sale.


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## Cadillac (Apr 18, 2019)

Check Chicago CL I was on it earlier today a guy just listed a Kent USA 14x40 engine lathe for 2800. Looks like a nice machine newer and hd for a hobbiest. I was actually going to take a look at her just because of condition price and close by.


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## astjp2 (Apr 18, 2019)

I got lucky today, I picked up a post hole auger for my tractor with 8 & 12" bits, I had been looking for one for 2.5 years, I texted the guy 10 minutes after he posted it online and I was up there (60 mile from home) at 9 AM this morning with cash in hand.  I would have been there last night but it was almost dark when he posted it.  I feel that I got a win on this one.  So patience pays off with persistence.   Tim


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## jwmay (Apr 18, 2019)

_It happens a lot, probably more than you realize, lots of craigslist scum out there...actually probably not scum, more like flakes..._

Well ok.

I have had lots of trouble with people wasting my time on there. Me being the seller, or sometimes giver of things. I’d post something as a free item, and then have people calling and asking a million questions. It’s free! Come get it! If you don’t like it, give it away, just like I’m doing! The item is free, but my time costs money. I don’t advertise there at all anymore actually. It seems a very mistrusting and combative environment.


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## Jason280 (Apr 19, 2019)

I've been looking for a lathe for months, and it has been a frustrating experience.  Machines are few and far between here, and any deal that is posted usually gets snagged up quickly.  I've already missed two deals simply because I couldn't get there the next day...you just about to need to have the trailer loaded and ready to go at a moment's notice!

Don't get me wrong, I've been able to find machines...problem is, they are either 3 phase only, too big, or out of my price range ($2-3k).  I know 3 phase shouldn't be a limiting factor, given the availability of phase converters, but it does add an extra expense.  Hopefully, I can get my Craftsman 12" back in 100% condition and stop looking!!


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## projectnut (Apr 19, 2019)

jwmay said:


> _It happens a lot, probably more than you realize, lots of craigslist scum out there...actually probably not scum, more like flakes..._
> 
> Well ok.
> 
> I have had lots of trouble with people wasting my time on there. Me being the seller, or sometimes giver of things. I’d post something as a free item, and then have people calling and asking a million questions. It’s free! Come get it! If you don’t like it, give it away, just like I’m doing! The item is free, but my time costs money. I don’t advertise there at all anymore actually. It seems a very mistrusting and combative environment.



A few years ago I had a garden tractor I no longer needed and was willing to give to someone who did.  Unfortunately I listed as "free to a good home" on our local craigslist.  I think it attracted every scrapper in a 4 county area.  I didn't realize it, but the person I committed to giving it to turned out to be a scrapper.  That was the last time I put anything out there for free.

Last year I had a small lathe that needed a new home.  I originally fixed it up for one of my nephews, but alas his parents thought he was still a bit young to be playing with something as potentially dangerous.  This time rather than put it on Craigslist for free I listed it for $250.00 to eliminate the scrappers.  A young kid came along to check it out.  He didn't think he could afford the asking price and asked if it was negotiable.  I responded that it was, and asked what he was willing to pay for it.  He said about all he could do was $150.00.  I could see he was more than  interested and was at least willing to make an offer.  Long story short, I gave him the machine.  I was happy to see it go to someone who would get some use out of it rather than a scrapper that was turning it into beer money.


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## toploader (Apr 19, 2019)

MontanaLon said:


> Oh, I have the cash. Even told a guy I was on the way to pick up a machine in Wisconsin on the phone.  I saw it at noon on lunch and it was the third one on the page so hadn't been up long, called the guy said I wanted it, called my boss and took a half day off, called the guy back and said I was on the way and would be there in 4 hours, loaded up the tool box and started driving. Hit the bank on the way out of town and took out $2,000. It was a very nice SB10 with all the original accessories and a bunch of tooling including the milling adapter QCTP and collet chuck for $1,900. It wasn't pristine but it had obviously been taken care of. Guy said he had bought it in the 70's and had used it in the farm shop until he retired in the 90's and then it had set in the shed since unused.
> 
> Got 2 hours from home and got the call from him another guy showed up and gave him $200 more for the machine than he was asking when he told him it was already sold to me.



I had this same exact thing happen to me with a no7 Cincinnati mill and a WM Sellers horizontal boring mill. Guy sold the boring mill to someone else for $200 more then the agreed upon price. 

But it all worked out in the end. I got a better HBM then the Sellers.


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## Jason280 (Apr 19, 2019)

I listed a trailer on CL a couple years back, and had a guy call me who wanted to buy.   The guy lived around 2.5hrs away, and said he couldn't pick it up until Saturday morning.  I told him that was no problem *if the trailer was still available Saturday*, that he should check back with me on Friday to make sure it hadn't sold.  He wanted an address where we could meet, so I gave him a location not far from my house...again telling him to check with me by Thursday or Friday to make sure I still had the trailer.   Another guy called ended up calling me Thursday with cash in hand, so and ultimately came by and bought the trailer.  I immediately started calling the other guy, to let him know the trailer had sold.  No answer, so I left him a message.  Didn't hear back from him, so I called again that evening.  Still, no answer.  Friday rolls around, and I call him multiple times and leave two more messages.  Never did hear back from him, so I assume he's just moved on to another deal once he got my first message.  Wrong.  I get a call Saturday morning, this guy has driven over 2.5hrs to pick up a trailer that had been sold.  I explained that I had called and left multiple messages, to which he never responded.  He was irate, and I felt terrible for the guy, but not sure what else I could have done.


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## BGHansen (Apr 19, 2019)

MontanaLon said:


> Oh, I have the cash. Even told a guy I was on the way to pick up a machine in Wisconsin on the phone.  I saw it at noon on lunch and it was the third one on the page so hadn't been up long, called the guy said I wanted it, called my boss and took a half day off, called the guy back and said I was on the way and would be there in 4 hours, loaded up the tool box and started driving. Hit the bank on the way out of town and took out $2,000. It was a very nice SB10 with all the original accessories and a bunch of tooling including the milling adapter QCTP and collet chuck for $1,900. It wasn't pristine but it had obviously been taken care of. Guy said he had bought it in the 70's and had used it in the farm shop until he retired in the 90's and then it had set in the shed since unused.
> 
> Got 2 hours from home and got the call from him another guy showed up and gave him $200 more for the machine than he was asking when he told him it was already sold to me.


On the plus side, if the guy agreed to sell you the machine and was talked out of the sale for a few more bucks that easily, I'd question his character.  Wonder if he was truthful in describing the state of the machine.  He was in it just for the money and wouldn't hesitate handing you a problem. "Oh, I didn't know the qcgb gears were missing teeth"

Bruce


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## ThinWoodsman (Apr 19, 2019)

jwmay said:


> I have had lots of trouble with people wasting my time on there. Me being the seller, or sometimes giver of things. I’d post something as a free item, and then have people calling and asking a million questions. It’s free! Come get it! If you don’t like it, give it away, just like I’m doing! The item is free, but my time costs money. I don’t advertise there at all anymore actually. It seems a very mistrusting and combative environment.



Agreed. Decade or so ago, I was making a big move and had a pile of stuff I didn't want to take with me, but didn't care to try and make money on. By then I'd had it with CL people, so I posted on Freecycle. Everyone I dealt with was friendly and grateful. Totally different crowd. Most of CL seems to be people trying to make a quick buck one way or the other, especially in urban areas.

Something I've said before and will repeat here: make friends with the seller when you call. Ask why they are getting rid of it, talk about machining, complain about the weather, make fun of the next town over that you both hate, joke a bit. They'll be more likely to hold the machine for you if they like you. Also, if the seller doesn't have time, or doesn't want to gab on the phone about nothing, and is just a straight-to-business type ... well, they're also the type that will sell it for a hundred bucks more while you're on the way there. So either don't deal with them, or go in knowing it may fall through without warning.


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## mmcmdl (Apr 19, 2019)

I've sold many machines on CL with minimal problems . I advertise them as I call and see them . The machines I buy , sell and keep come from past employers who know I'm a serious , interested machinist . They call me . If I like it , I keep it . If not , I'll unload it and make $100-$200 profit for my time and gas money . I don't respond to Emails and post this in the ads . I do not respond to Rebecca or Jasmine as to the condition of the item . You want to see it , you come to the garage , period .

Next months items are a 12 inch Atlas , 12 inch Clausing , 9 inch Jet lathes , 48" BP and that little WM bench mill . Do I need them ? Nope . Do I know the market value and offer the sellers close to it ? Yes . There is a trust factor in the transaction . Sometimes I lose my butt , but it keeps me active and in touch with past employees and friends !


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## markba633csi (Apr 19, 2019)

I guess the one good thing about auctions is that once you have won it, it's yours.  Usually.
M


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## mmcmdl (Apr 19, 2019)

And the one bad thing about auctions is you don't know the history of the machines . I don't do auctions .


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## TakeDeadAim (Apr 21, 2019)

If I had the room for another lathe, Id be looking at this one.  Nice rigid machine and this one has a variable speed drive on it, also looks like its set up with a collet closer.  In my experience the sub $2000 machines for sale in the area are projects rather than machines.  Thats fine if you have the tools and the time but to me ending up with a Craftsman/Atlas that I have to work on is just not what I wanted.


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## Cooter Brown (Apr 21, 2019)

I have a craftsman 109 with a 4jaw chuck and tailstock that I'll sell you for $100.... but detroit might be too far of a drive for you.... lol....


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## MontanaLon (Apr 21, 2019)

Cooter Brown said:


> I have a craftsman 109 with a 4jaw chuck and tailstock that I'll sell you for $100.... but detroit might be too far of a drive for you.... lol....


Got pictures? I actually have family all over south eastern Michigan who would be happy to see me.


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## Cooter Brown (Apr 21, 2019)

I'll pull it out and get some pictures...


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## Cooter Brown (Apr 21, 2019)

If you are interested Private Message me...

the friend I bought from painted it baby blue and I was lucky enough to be able to rescue it before he finished painting it that awful color... I had plans to pimp this little lathe out but I have bigger projects that need more attention, this was going to be a cnc desktop lathe with clearpath servos... Lol

24" bed and about 17" between centers...  6" swing over the ways....


3" 4jaw chuck with reverse able jaws.... It has a 1/2-20 spindle thread












Zamak gears


has the original motor pulley




It also has the pin for the back gear and it works great


threading dial, the lead screw and the half nuts work great, no slop or play...


that is the tailstock mounting plate on the lower right... I dont have a handle or a nut for it... and the tailstock it missing the clamp, but the screw feeds nicely, its a MT0... that dead center is the only tool I have for it...



this might be the original motor lol. Believe it or not this old thing runs great...



The Only problem with it is the tail stock has a broken ear on the bottom.... but if you want this machine and dont have the tooling to fix it, I'll fix it for you for free...


the bottom of the tailstock is in great condition...


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## astjp2 (Apr 21, 2019)

That is the best you will find and worth the price, I just got my jet going, power to the garage was the hardest part and installing the collet closer. My next project is installing a dro. Then I can start learning how to use my lathe and cut threads, it's been 30 years since I ran one.


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## projectnut (Apr 21, 2019)

If you're willing to travel as far as Detroit you might want to look at a couple Clausing mills in Jackson.  It's about 75 miles west of Detroit.  There is currently a Clausing 8520 and an 8530 up for sale on eBay for $2,100.00 or Best Offer.









						Clausing Vertical Milling Machine Model 8520  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Clausing Vertical Milling Machine Model 8520 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				












						Clausing 8530 Vertical Milling Machine    | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Clausing 8530 Vertical Milling Machine   at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


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## MontanaLon (May 7, 2019)

So the hunt is ongoing but I have a lathe in my sights. Going to look at it tomorrow with cash in hand, if it is as good mechanically as it looks I will bring it home tomorrow. It is a SB 9A 4.5' bed, with the single tumbler QCGB. Has 3j, 4j, dog plate, center rest, which was broken and repaired and an import QCTP with 5 tool holders plus an old lantern post and live center, dead center and a wood center, plus a Jacob's chuck. Plus the original stand.

Picking it up from a machine rebuilder who says 3 people owned it before, wear looks light, but with everyone's help here I think I am going in with a least a basic knowledge of how to spot a dog. Thanks everyone, halfway there.


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## astjp2 (May 16, 2019)

Did you buy a lathe yet?  Tim


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## MontanaLon (May 16, 2019)

astjp2 said:


> Did you buy a lathe yet?  Tim


Yes, I bought the one I went to look at. Have it torn down now to replace wicks and clean before moving it into the basement shop. 

Have 1 taper pin in the apron that is refusing to come out. Going to piece together a pin puller and try pulling instead of pushing. If that fails I will have to think about drilling it out.


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## Winegrower (May 16, 2019)

I suppose the hunt can be frustrating.   I have a 10” Logan, forget the number, but it has all the basics, QCGB, AXA tool post, lots of holders and tools.  I added iGaging readouts to X and Z, etc.   The bearing are amazing...just the weight of a small chuck key will rotate the spindle.  But I work with steel more now, and it struggles with more than maybe 25 thou cut.  
I thought about new, looked at all the choices, seemed to me they were all the same lathe with different branding and market positioning strategies.   The convenience would be great, delivered to my door, lots of accessories,
I have been watching CL for Sacramento, Gold Country and San Francisco, and there is a new listing every couple of days it seems.   Recently I saw a Takisawa TSL-800D listed...I had researched that lathe a year or so ago when one came up by surprise locally, and liked it a lot.   I watched for a few days, and when it was still listed I had to call.  The seller was closing a machine shop after 38 years, and had purchased this new.  It was almost 200 miles away, but he was close to a small airport so I went to see it.   It was really in excellent condition, “runs like new” as the seller said.   But, seemed a bit pricey, and the agony of moving it turned me off.
Then I spent a few days pleased that I resisted.   But you know what happened...called him back, renegotiated price and accessories, and agreed on a price.    I rented a really cool little hydraulic trailer that squatted right down flat, and picked it up pretty easily for a 2500 pound lump.   Other than unloading in the dark and a rainstorm, it went pretty well.
I think my current lathe is going to a friend tomorrow so I hope to get the shop back in business by Saturday.   It takes a major rearranging, which was much needed anyway.   For the record, the Takisawa, with only a 3 jaw, collet closer, steady rest, couple of chucks, centers, Aloris CXA toolpost and a couple tool holders and a tray of random tools...and also a 8 station turret (don’t know if I’ll ever use this) went for $3250.   My Logan is going with a pretty complete set of insert tooling is going for $1200 supposedly.  
The Takisawa with no wiring or plug changes started right up on my phase converter.
Anyway, i’m satisfied.   Now to add a DRO and a 4 jaw...it needs an A1-5.   I’m thinking DRO Pro magnetic.   Anybody have an extra chuck?


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## ezduzit (May 17, 2019)

Unsubscribed.


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## kb58 (May 17, 2019)

MontanaLon said:


> ... what is really puzzling is there are larger machines in similar shape for half that.
> 
> My problem is the larger machines would be too large to shoehorn into my basement even if I could transport them to the house in the first place...


You solved your own puzzle.


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## jwmay (May 18, 2019)

Perhaps now would be the time for a sigh of relief that your frustration has ended. Perhaps even an expression of satisfaction with your purchase. A moment of happiness?


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## MontanaLon (May 18, 2019)

jwmay said:


> Perhaps now would be the time for a sigh of relief that your frustration has ended. Perhaps even an expression of satisfaction with your purchase. A moment of happiness?


Most definitely, I can’t wipe the stupid grin off my face.


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## Flyinfool (May 18, 2019)

Glad to hear that you finally scored on your first piece.

Sometimes it takes a while to find such a deal.
My mill I looked for 3 years before I found that deal I could not refuse. Ended up with a Tree 2UVR mill with 2 axis DRO and a PALLET of tooling. One item on the pallet was a 4 drawer drill storage cabinet with 1 to 50 drill bits in every number letter and fraction size. I sold off the tools that I would never have a use for and got more than I paid for the whole thing. Yes it was very interesting getting that 3400 lb beast into the basement while making 2 90° turns.

The lath took me even longer, everything that I could find used cost just as much as a new machine, I finally bit the bullet and got a new Jet GH1340 lathe. It was very close to the same price as all of the used stuff that I was finding. Got that 1200 lbs into the basement too.

The last big piece was the B&S No.2 surface grinder, I was not really looking for it at the time. It just jumped up one day and slapped me in the face. It was free for the hauling, and included the 6 x 18 mag chuck made for it, and several boxes of wheels and misc tooling. That was only 1400 lbs to get in the basement. I had no clue if it ran or not when I loaded it on the trailer. 

Patience and perseverance can pay off. The other trick is to stop looking once you buy, that way you are never disappointed by the better deal that comes along. There will always be one no matter how sweet your deal was. But if you wait for that best possible deal you will never have anything but dreams.


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## hman (May 18, 2019)

Flyinfool said:


> The other trick is to stop looking once you buy, that way you are never disappointed by the better deal that comes along. There will always be one no matter how sweet your deal was.


Absolutely true ... but then, I just can't keep myself from "window shopping"


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