# Newbie needing help with 820



## Campfire (Jul 23, 2017)

A couple of years ago I was lucky enough to walk into a shop at the right moment after a terrible accident. 





I stared at the carnage and knew the lathe had been used by a former employee a lot, but there was nobody left there that could operate it, and it seems that we just replace parts anymore and not really "fix" things. They were moving it out of the shop to "storage" and making more room.  
Being the opportunist that I am, I jokingly asked if anyone had dibs on it. The manager stated that "It's scrap now, if you want it, get it out of here now."
"Can I borrow your fork lift please?" And I moved it right out of their way for them. 

I picked up the pieces that separated, and stashed it out of the way until I could get my trailer to haul it off. 





I retired in December and now have some time to get back and start re-learning machine shop from long ago. I took Machine shop in High School, and one class in college, but after looking for parts and researching lathes, a few things have changed in the last 38+ years.

I've cleaned it up, replaced the belt, fixed and welded the cracks in the belt cover, made new hinges and a pin for the belt cover, and played a little on it with polishing some things, and facing off some aluminum. Traced out the numbers and it's a 1947 model 820.


BUT.....

In the fall, it landed on the three jaw chuck and bent the spindle about .006". 

I've researched it and found that  need a part # LA-660 which is now a LP-1303.

QUESTION;

Will a Model 200 spindle work in this 820 headstock? Or what spindle will interchange with a 820?


It now sits in my garage awaiting the transplant from a donor.

 Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## eeler1 (Jul 23, 2017)

Question; how did you determine the spindle was bent?  

What a great find!  Can't help with your questions, but you are fortunate to know about the accident and that it wasn't worse.


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## Billh50 (Jul 23, 2017)

wondering how you checked the spindle to say it is bent.


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## Campfire (Jul 23, 2017)

The first indicator was the scuff marks on the three jaw that came with it.





Then I tried a smaller three jaw and then the 4 jaw that came with it.
Borrowed a magnetic base dial indicator and place it at about a 45 degree angle to measure the end of the  spindle, but trying to avoid the edge of the threads. Then I also measured the base of the three jaw chuck rotating by hand.

Ordered a spindle off of Ebay for a model 830, but that's a turret lathe and the spindle was 2.25" longer. I've seen a couple of 820's on there, but they have been pretty marked up or look like they were bead blasted to get the rust off. Even saw one that had weld marks on the front bearing flange.
 Just found a 200 spindle, but it shows a different part number (LA-109-3) but that model looks identical except for the quick change gearbox.

I'll be calling Logan in the morning to see if they can help also. Just thought someone here might real world experience  replacing one.


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## Nogoingback (Jul 23, 2017)

There's a good chance that the 820 spindle is the same as a 200, though of course Scott Logan will know the answer.
Did your new spindle come with bearings, and if so how do they feel?  A blow hard enough to damage the spindle could have damaged
your bearings as well.  Logan sells them.

I recently replaced the bearings on my Model 200, so if you change the spindle out, don't hesitate to ask questions.  

What a shame about the lathe: it makes me cringe to see it upside down like that.


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## Chuck K (Jul 23, 2017)

I don't think the 200 spindle will work for you.  If I remember correctly it's a different length.  If you're patient, you'll be able to find a complete headstock for that machine.  They're always being parted out.  I probably have a spindle for that machine, but without being able to hold it in my hands and match it up, I would just be guessing.  I really should lable parts when I store them away.  As you already found out, there are differences in some of the spindles.


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## Campfire (Jul 24, 2017)

Well, took a little time this Sunday afternoon and tore down the head stock a bit. And thanks Nogoingback, I was thinking the same thing about that bearing, and will be replacing it too when I find a spindle someday. The bearing had a lot of wax residue and not a lot of oil or grease. The maintenance might have been skipped a little.


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## Nogoingback (Jul 24, 2017)

There a couple of model 200 spindles on eBay right now.  I'm curious about the part number you have for the spindle:  my Logan Model 200 parts book lists the spindle as 
p/n LA 109-1 for both early and late headstocks.  Where did you get the number from?

Some folks have had luck washing the old grease out of their bearings and repacking them, assuming the bearing is smooth of course.


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## eeler1 (Jul 24, 2017)

I'm still not convinced that the spindle is bent.  The cast iron headstock doesn't bend, and I'm pretty sure the spindle is hardened, so more likely to break or crack perhaps rather than bend   The bearings are the usual victim to take the blow, as they are replaceable.  While you have it off the machine, maybe take it to someone who can test it for you.  I don't have a suggestion on who to do the test, maybe a cylindrical grinding shop.   Can always try Tom Lipton at Oxtools in Benicia, he's big on measuring stuff on his youtube channel.

My reasoning is that you don't know what the replacement spindle has been through over the last 50 or 60 years.  Unless you can test your existing spindle and the replacement, you don't really know if you will be making things better or worse.  

So on the one hand, you could be spending money that may not be getting you any improvement, on the other, for what you paid for the machine, you are already using house money.


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## Campfire (Jul 24, 2017)

Just got off the phone with Scott Logan and he has confirmed that the 200 Series spindle *will NOT* work in a 800 series lathe.
The 200 is smaller in diameter, with different bearings also. He said that _most  _of the 800 series will interchange with the 820 along with most of the 1800 series with the majority of the difference being the length of the spindles. The 800 & 1800 series lathe have that custom dual race front bearing.

And... I think eeler1 has a great idea now that I have that spindle out. I'll start checking that bearing and see if I can start measuring the run out of the entire shaft.
And a great big thank you to everyone for the ideas and advice. But I have to get this Honda engine overhaul out of my hair first before I get to involved with this lathe again.

Off to the garage I go.


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## Campfire (Jul 30, 2017)

_SCORE!!!!!_
I've spent hours on eBay looking for a spindle and/or other parts, and even ordered the wrong one & returned it. Then on a whim, I checked CraigsList and found someone had posted a "50's Logan 200?" headstock for parts fairly close to me.
Called the great guy and asked questions, he says.... he has a 200, it's not the same as his, it came as spare parts with the 200.....
We drove less than an hour away and that sucker looks, and measures out to be the same as my Model 820. "Please take my $40 to clean out your garage" and I'm a very happy camper right now. A little more cleaning and I'll start painting the casting. Ordered all new bearings on Thursday (they had the back bearing in stock), so this will start the repair/cleanup/semi-restore project.
When I got it torn down, I found some slight differences and then traced them in the parts catalog I have and found that this head is a '44-46 with the front bearing retainer nut design. Mine's a 1947 and everything else appears the same.





The Bull Gear and both Back Gears have a couple of teeth missing, but mine are fine so I'll combine the two to make up a complete





Both front and rear  bearings in the older head looks original and are "New Dimension" brand, but had rusted at the lower edges. Mine looks like its already been replaced with different type of shielded bearing.





NOW, for all of those wondering (and myself), I took my shaft and bearings out of the headstock on the lathe, and replaced it with the older replacement *to verify that it was the bearings.*
Measured again the same way as I did before, and that runout was less than .002". So all of those that said it probably wasn't the spindle, you're right.
I'll be replacing it anyway just to make use of my $40 investment.

Thank you to everyone for the ideas and help again.


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## Campfire (Aug 2, 2017)

Did some more cleaning the other day, taped up the machined surfaces on the head stock casting and threw it into the blast cabinet.









It turned out pretty good, a little paint and detailing on the feed lever.................





But this waiting two weeks for parts is killing me now. I want to get this thing together and play with some projects.


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## rambin (Aug 2, 2017)

wow looking good what are you using for paint?  I need to start painting some of my pieces as I remove and clean them.. I too was thinking about the blast cabinet, some duct tape should protect the races I guess


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## RandyM (Aug 2, 2017)

rambin said:


> wow looking good what are you using for paint?  I need to start painting some of my pieces as I remove and clean them.. I too was thinking about the blast cabinet, *some duct tape should protect the races I guess*



I'd remove the bearings when doing any grit blasting. You do not want to take any chances of introducing grit into them. Once removed you now do not need to worry about the races. Now if you are concerned about the bores in the castings that the bearings are retained in, then you can certainly use duct tape as protection for them. I have found duct tape to be very effective in protecting parts from grit blasting, although I doubt that a little blasting in the bores are going to do any real damage.


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## wa5cab (Aug 2, 2017)

Just be sure to clean the surface that had the tape on it with one of the citrus based adhesive removers like Goo-Be-Gone followed by varsol or equivalent before you start reassembly.


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## Campfire (Aug 2, 2017)

rambin said:


> wow looking good what are you using for paint?  I need to start painting some of my pieces as I remove and clean them.. I too was thinking about the blast cabinet, some duct tape should protect the races I guess



While I want this good old classic machine clean, I'm also going  to use it and want it functional. I'm just using Rust-Oleum gray from Ace Hardware so I can touch it up whenever I want to.
And yes, duct tape is what I use for all machined or bored surfaces when I blast something.



RandyM said:


> I'd remove the bearings when doing any grit blasting. You do not want to take any chances of introducing grit into them. Once removed you now do not need to worry about the races. Now if you are concerned about the bores in the castings that the bearings are retained in, then you can certainly use duct tape as protection for them. I have found duct tape to be very effective in protecting parts from grit blasting, although I doubt that a little blasting in the bores are going to do any real damage.



Great reminder Randy! 
Always remove any bearings when getting anywhere near blast cabinet, and then do your pressurized air grit removal and clean up in a separate area. And if you have the room, use a long tip air nozzle while turning your work over & over to get all of the media out of those small places. 
I use brake parts cleaner for cleaning up all machine surfaces after removing the duct tape the same day, never let that tape sit on there very long or it will get to be a mess. I've blasted lots of cylinder heads, valve covers, blocks, and water pump housings, and there are lots of paint prep solvents out there to clean up with too.


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## RandyM (Aug 2, 2017)

You're doing a great job Campfire. Keep the posts coming.


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## rambin (Aug 2, 2017)

campfire did you use  spray bombs for that paint  or  a brush? looks like a good color choice!


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## Campfire (Aug 3, 2017)

rambin said:


> campfire did you use  spray bombs for that paint  or  a brush? looks like a good color choice!



Rattle Can Special! 
Of course the 98 degree temperature helped when I left it sitting in the sun for a bit.  Probably had a surface temp of around 120+ when I laid the paint on it.


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## rambin (Aug 3, 2017)

hmm I always think of rattle can paint not drying as tough as brushed on but that's prbly just something Ive dreamed up over the years... cast being such a rough/porous   surface compares  to flat steel it may hold on really well, thinking I might try out your rattle can method...mind ya I don't have that California sun oven to bake it on ;p


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## Campfire (Aug 12, 2017)

The bearings came in this week so I started on Thursday building one headstock from two. Cleaned up about everything I would need from the both of them, and chose the best ones to use. 





Put the back gears into place (that was a challenge like a couple of transmissions I've rebuilt) but finally got everything lined  up and the back gear lever in place, proper gear mesh, and then moved on. 





Installed it on the bed after cleaning that up, and took it for a test turn. 

IT"S STRAIGHT!! 
I'm happy now and on to some projects. 





Totaled up my tags and I have roughly $340 in repair parts, and another $85+ in new/replacement tooling.
 I think I'll splurge on a quick change tool post next. 
Thanks again for all of your input. Time for a new thread on projects.


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## dlane (Aug 13, 2017)

Should be a good one when your done,  I'm guessing it went over backwards as the dials, handles , knobs look intact. Dose the motor sit out back? . 

Ps: is that a KLR in your avatar, had one in AR  sold it when I moved here.


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## MBfrontier (Aug 13, 2017)

Very nice job.


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## Campfire (Aug 13, 2017)

dlane said:


> Should be a good one when your done,  I'm guessing it went over backwards as the dials, handles , knobs look intact. Dose the motor sit out back? .
> 
> Ps: is that a KLR in your avatar, had one in AR  sold it when I moved here.



I never really understood "HOW" it went over after hearing the three or four variations of the story. But it works pretty good now, and that's all that matters to me.
And yes, the motor hangs off the back on the pedestal mount.  

And yes Derrick, that's my trusty KLR. Just a little 54,000 miles on that thing and I'll be starting some projects for luggage mounts, etc. on it soon with the lathe. You should get another one since you're up there in Oroville. There's a ton of places to ride up there. A buddy lives up in Butte Meadows and keeps telling me to come up and visit, then use his place for a base to ride out of for a couple of days. Might take him up on it this fall.


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