# Trying to decided on a benchtop lathe



## shawnwil16830 (Dec 27, 2020)

I'm in the market for a benchtop lathe. I have limited space for a machine so it will be a smallish machine. I've been looking at the PM 1022 and the Bolton 1224. THe Bolton is the biggest machine I can fit in the space but I have some concerns about quality. The PM is a bit more money but based on reviews have an excellent reputation. 
I'm still scouring the used market but have yet to find anything worth the asking price.

Any advice would be welcome.


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## silence dogood (Dec 27, 2020)

I'd go for quality and customer relations.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 27, 2020)

The PM hands down. 
There’s a bunch of PM owners here and from what I’ve heard PM supports their customers well.


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## shawnwil16830 (Dec 27, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> The PM hands down.
> There’s a bunch of PM owners here and from what I’ve heard PM supports their customers well.


Customer support is big. I guess I’ll be making a trip to Pittsburgh in the spring if I still can’t find anything on the used market.


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## mickri (Dec 27, 2020)

Welcome to Hobby Machinist.  Lots of really knowledgeable people on here that will help you out.  Don't be afraid to ask any question no matter how simple you may think it is.  Someone will have the answer for you.   Tell us a little bit about yourself and what you hope to make with your lathe.

What do you think you want to make with your lathe?  Write out what I call a Statement of Requirements (SOR). Don't forget to include tooling.  Tooling up a lathe can easily exceed the purchase price.  Let your SOR guide you in your search.

When looking at used lathes search out estate sales.  And be willing to travel some distance.  I used searchtempest.com and searched within a 400 mile radius of my home.  Ultimately I found my lathe only a couple of miles from my house.  It came with just about everything in the craftsman catalog.  While I paid more than I wanted to I did not have to spend big $$$$ on tooling.

PM has a good reputation.  I have heard nothing good about Boltons.


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## jaek (Dec 27, 2020)

The PM 1022 looks to be higher quality and has some nice features for sure like a hardened and ground bed and the separate drive key for power and cross feeds. If you have to turn something with a large diameter or do coarse-pitch threading the Bolton's geared head and low-speed power will be very helpful.


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## matthewsx (Dec 27, 2020)

Hi and welcome,


I have a Bolton and your concerns are warranted. I traded for mine (had a 6" Craftsman) as a project so am willing to put up with the complete lack of support to have a much bigger lathe.

As I'm sure others will point out size is the one thing you can't add on to a lathe so if you're considering something with a 12" swing I'd recommend making absolutely sure you're not able to squeeze a 12x36 into your shop. Generally the extra swing comes with a substantial gain in rigidity and capability. 

We're currently discussing how to assist folks like you concerning lathe selection so I'd encourage you to participate in that discussion as well.


John


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## shawnwil16830 (Dec 27, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> Hi and welcome,
> 
> 
> I have a Bolton and your concerns are warranted. I traded for mine (had a 6" Craftsman) as a project so am willing to put up with the complete lack of support to have a much bigger lathe.
> ...


I’d love to have a 12x36 but there’s literally no way to fit that in the space allowed. The Bolton is literally biggest machine that will fit and only just. The only reason I was considering it at all was for the extra swing.
I’m not looking for a project though so.....
Too bad really. I like that gear head set up.


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## shawnwil16830 (Dec 27, 2020)

mickri said:


> Welcome to Hobby Machinist.  Lots of really knowledgeable people on here that will help you out.  Don't be afraid to ask any question no matter how simple you may think it is.  Someone will have the answer for you.   Tell us a little bit about yourself and what you hope to make with your lathe.
> 
> What do you think you want to make with your lathe?  Write out what I call a Statement of Requirements (SOR). Don't forget to include tooling.  Tooling up a lathe can easily exceed the purchase price.  Let your SOR guide you in your search.
> 
> ...


I’m not overly concerned about tooling. My father in law is a retired machinist as well. I have access to all the tooling and machines I could want until I get my own.
That’s honestly why I haven’t been in a hurry to buy. I have access to a Bridgeport, a Decent full size import lathe as well as an older CNC mill.
I just want to be able to walk into my basement, ignore the world and cut some metal.


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## matthewsx (Dec 27, 2020)

shawnwil16830 said:


> I’d love to have a 12x36 but there’s literally no way to fit that in the space allowed. The Bolton is literally biggest machine that will fit and only just. The only reason I was considering it at all was for the extra swing.
> I’m not looking for a project though so.....
> Too bad really. I like that gear head set up.



It sounds like you have an appreciation of what the extra swing will give you and access to good machines while you search for the best fit. Being in PA definitely gives an advantage in finding used tools. What I would do in this situation is to look at lathes.co.uk and figure out what will fit your space and budget, then start looking. Your father-in-law would be the first place I'd start since he may have friends who've retired and gotten past their home shop days. 

You're at the right place to discuss needs and what machines would be best. We all love to help folks figure this stuff out and members here span the range from mini through full industrial. The PM machines have a good reputation and consensus is you won't be disappointed. But since you started out looking at a 12" lathes you might want to consider which machines would give that and fit your space....

John


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## Jim F (Dec 27, 2020)

PA does not have that much available.
I had to go to W MD. to get My SB9C.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 28, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> Your father-in-law would be the first place I'd start since he may have friends who've retired and gotten past their home shop days.



Getting to know people who have machines has been a huge help for me. Once you get to know people it seems like stuff is popping up all the time. People get a new machine and need to sell the old, have a machine that they just don't use anymore and want to make some room or they know somebody who has a machine to sell. Ebay and CL are kind of a pain and who wants a bunch of strangers nosing around their shop, so if they can sell privately through word of mouth it is better for all involved. 

About half of the machines I have, either came to me directly from somebody that I know, or because somebody I know, knew a guy that was selling. The rest were either purchased new or I found them on CL.


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## shawnwil16830 (Dec 28, 2020)

matthewsx said:


> You're at the right place to discuss needs and what machines would be best. We all love to help folks figure this stuff out and members here span the range from mini through full industrial. The PM machines have a good reputation and consensus is you won't be disappointed. But since you started out looking at a 12" lathes you might want to consider which machines would give that and fit your space....
> 
> John



I'll definitely check out "lathes.co.uk". By the look of the site it will give me dimensions of a bunch of different options I hadn't considered at the very least. I'll also take any advice I can get. I really only have space for a lathe that is 50 inches long. I can stretch that out a little but it will require some creative rearranging of the space and possibly building some new shelving and workbenches. 

Perhaps what I really need is a bigger house and garage....


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## shawnwil16830 (Dec 28, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> Getting to know people who have machines has been a huge help for me. Once you get to know people it seems like stuff is popping up all the time. People get a new machine and need to sell the old, have a machine that they just don't use anymore and want to make some room or they know somebody who has a machine to sell. Ebay and CL are kind of a pain and who wants a bunch of strangers nosing around their shop, so if they can sell privately through word of mouth it is better for all involved.
> 
> About half of the machines I have, either came to me directly from somebody that I know, or because somebody I know, knew a guy that was selling. The rest were either purchased new or I found them on CL.




That's how my father in law got all his machines. I know enough folks local that getting bigger stuff wouldn't be overly problematic. I know of a Colchester that will be available within the next couple years. Finding little stuff has been more difficult.


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## mksj (Dec 28, 2020)

There are other reasons to consider a 12-13" swing lathe, in general they use standardized chuck mounts (D1-4 mount has a wide selection of chucks and easier to mount), holders (BXA) and tooling like standard tapers. They tend to have fewer change gears and have more rigidity. Bolton makes inexpensive machines, but the few people I know that have purchased them regret the purchase due to poor functioning/quality, no post sales support and lack of replacement parts. There are two lathe suggestions that you might consider looking at, but they are a bit more:
PM-1228VF-LB https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1228vf-lb/
EISEN 1224GH (w/o floor stand)  https://eisenm.com/products/eisen-1...hp-single-phase-220v-with-floor-stand-and-dro


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## shawnwil16830 (Dec 28, 2020)

mksj said:


> There are other reasons to consider a 12-13" swing lathe, in general they use standardized chuck mounts (D1-4 mount has a wide selection of chucks and easier to mount), holders (BXA) and tooling like standard tapers. They tend to have fewer change gears and have more rigidity. Bolton makes inexpensive machines, but the few people I know that have purchased them regret the purchase due to poor functioning/quality, no post sales support and lack of replacement parts. There are two lathe suggestions that you might consider looking at, but they are a bit more:
> PM-1228VF-LB https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1228vf-lb/
> EISEN 1224GH (w/o floor stand)  https://eisenm.com/products/eisen-1...hp-single-phase-220v-with-floor-stand-and-dro


 
Unfortunately that PM lathe is about 10 inches long to fit in the space allotted. That Eisen has my interest though. I would need to put back a bit more green than I have currently but it might fit the bill better than the PM 1022.

Thanks for the tip!


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## Aaron_W (Dec 28, 2020)

I know nothing about Bolton but those who have experience with them tend not to have much positive to say. I also wonder about them considering that nobody else sells some of the machines they have, like that 12x24. Grizzly used to sell a 12x24 but no longer list it, makes you wonder why...

If you could possibly squeeze in another 5" of length you might look at the PM1127. You still have to deal with change gears but beyond the additional 1" of swing you get a larger spindle bore and a D1-4 spindle instead of the kind of funky flange system used on many of the smaller lathes including the PM1022/1030. The 1127 also has a wider bed (7" vs 5.33") than the 1022 so should be a little more rigid.

Something you gain by going to a 12" that is not obvious at first is that is the smallest size new lathe that comes with a QCGB, on all of the smaller lathes you have to deal with change gears for threading. Some of the smaller ones do have gear boxes to control the power feed speed, but can only do a couple of threads at a time with out changing the gears. Vintage lathes have an advantage over new in this regard as many of the older 9-11" lathes were available with a QCGB, and none of the current ones do until you get into the $6000+ price range (the $7500 Grizzly Southbend 10x30 for example). 

PM's machines are more expensive but if you look at the accessories you are usually getting quite a bit more tooling with them along with that price, so you are not just buying a brand name and better service. Also a 10x22 lathe is not a tiny lathe, it is only small when compared to something like a 12x36 or larger.


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## shawnwil16830 (Dec 28, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> If you could possibly squeeze in another 5" of length you might look at the PM1127. You still have to deal with change gears but beyond the additional 1" of swing you get a larger spindle bore and a D1-4 spindle instead of the kind of funky flange system used on many of the smaller lathes including the PM1022/1030. The 1127 also has a wider bed (7" vs 5.33") than the 1022 so should be a little more rigid.




It seems my initial research was poor. I didn't even know the correct questions to ask. I'm going to go back to the drawing board, including trying to layout the workshop to find more space. I really want a QCGB. The extra width on the ways would be nice as well...... same with a D1-4 spindle. 

Perhaps I should just work on getting this mill where I want it and put back some additional cash for the lathe that will work for me. It would be nice to have one piece of equipment that isn't a pile of garbage.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 28, 2020)

shawnwil16830 said:


> It seems my initial research was poor. I didn't even know the correct questions to ask. I'm going to go back to the drawing board, including trying to layout the workshop to find more space. I really want a QCGB. The extra width on the ways would be nice as well...... same with a D1-4 spindle.
> 
> Perhaps I should just work on getting this mill where I want it and put back some additional cash for the lathe that will work for me. It would be nice to have one piece of equipment that isn't a pile of garbage.



If we all knew everything, we wouldn't need anything on this site other than the look at what I bought and look at what I made threads.   

I am a fan of smaller lathes, but a lot of that has to do with my doing mostly small work. 
There are definite benefits to bigger machines than just that they are bigger. Bigger also usually comes with more features, at least for the machines that you can buy new. Vintage machines open up lot more options, and a lot more concerns.


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## shawnwil16830 (Dec 28, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> If we all knew everything, we wouldn't need anything on this site other than the look at what I bought and look at what I made threads.
> 
> I am a fan of smaller lathes, but a lot of that has to do with my doing mostly small work.
> There are definite benefits to bigger machines than just that they are bigger. Bigger also usually comes with more features, at least for the machines that you can buy new. Vintage machines open up lot more options, and a lot more concerns.



I'll find the right unit eventually. My problem is I would much rather be using a lathe than researching them. I tend to impulse buy. 

I'm trying not to do that this time around.


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## matthewsx (Dec 28, 2020)

shawnwil16830 said:


> I'll find the right unit eventually. My problem is I would much rather be using a lathe than researching them. I tend to impulse buy.
> 
> I'm trying not to do that this time around.



Patience is your friend....

John


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