# My Afternoon At The Shooting Range



## Buffalo21 (Sep 15, 2020)

Works been a grind so it’s been about 6-8 weeks since I gone to the range. I shoot in a indoor, 50‘ and 100‘, 22LR rifle league, last year I shoot at 31 meeting and averaged 97.4% and came in 7th, the year before I was 8th. On Sunday, I went through my normal routine, 5 targets, 10 shots each, I was down in the 92% range, the second series was 94%, the third series was 96% and the fourth series was 92%. At that point, with the normal test shots and such, I gone through 5 boxes of ammo and felt bad about it, we are scheduled to go back again on Saturday morning, hopefully, I’ll do better.


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## Nutfarmer (Sep 15, 2020)

What rifle and ammo do you use? Have you made any changes to your rifle or is it stock? Any pictures ? You know we all love pictures. I would be thrilled if I could shoot anywhere with in yards of those scores.


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## westerner (Sep 15, 2020)

Out here in the sticks of the Southwest, we approach the shooting sports from a different angle. 
While there are many folks out here who compete in leagues of one sort or another, there are many who compete with a different objective. 

The difference in approach between 'hunting' and 'shooting' create different marksmen. The drive to be better, and MORE competent is the same. 

I am curious about the brands and specs of the ammo you shoot. In the centerfire world, a fellow willing to go down that rabbit hole can spend a lifetime tinkering with loads to wring the last fraction of an inch from his groups/score. (I can attest, trust me). Rimfire does not offer such latitude. 

My very best .22 is a Ruger 10/22 with a Green Mountain bull barrel, and an aftermarket trigger group. (but not the spendy Volquartsen.)
Hunting groups completely within 'minute of squirrel head' out to 50 yards or so. CCI mini-mag are by far the best I have tried. 

I have tried literally dozens of different brands, weights and models within these brands. The differences can sometimes be drastic. 

The "Zen" of trigger control, tho, is still the single most influential variable at work here.....I love the challenge.


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## Ulma Doctor (Sep 15, 2020)

@Buffalo21 92% is still 9 out of 10 if my arithmetic is correct!
no too bad considering most overpaid professional baseball players bat at little better than 3 out of 10.

a lot of my shooting has been at the range , but my best shooting comes during hunting and free shooting.

one of the best trick shots i practiced a couple hundred times was knocking the bottom of a glass bottle out, shooting through the mouth and not hit the neck doing so.
on younger excursions i have pruned a few trees of their small branches with an air rifle and a tin of pellets


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## Buffalo21 (Sep 16, 2020)

I shoot a Ruger Precision Rimfire, bolt action, with custom open sights (no scopes allowed), we all shoot the same target (printed off the internet) and also everyone uses the same ammo (CCI Mini-Mag hollow points)





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						Ruger Precision® Rimfire
					






					ruger.com


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## westerner (Sep 16, 2020)

Buffalo21 said:


> everyone uses the same ammo


Interesting. That certainly levels the playing field. 
The contest is focused on the shooter and his skill on the trigger.

I like it. 
I am sure it would be frustrating at times too. It sure is when I get a case of the 'yips'


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## Buffalo21 (Sep 16, 2020)

I had an issue, the Ruger Precision Rimfire, is designed to be used with a scope, but I wanted to use it with open sights, so I could use it in the league. When I called Ruger, I asked about available open sights, they said they designed it for a scope and suggest, I buy a scope and change to a more viable shooting league.

After numerous attempts, I ended up buying a rear peep sight for a M-1 rifle, and a front sight is for a Benelli tactical police shot gun. I added a muzzle break and basically shoot an otherwise stock rifle.

the league is an unofficial league, started by my cousins about 40 yrs ago, it start when one cousin told his brother, he was a better shot and could prove it. It all pretty informal, some weeks as many as 60 people shoot, other weeks, it might be 20-25. The only part of the league that is iron clad, are the actual shooting rules.

1 - in the presence others (minimum of 3) you shoot 5, 10 shot targets, each target has a possible 100 point score, your average of the 5 targets is that meets score. There are no Mulligan’s, if you shoot a 50, it effects your average.

2 - you must use the specified target (printed off the internet) and specified ammo (CCI Mini-Mag hollow points)

3 - there is a 30 minute time limit, the 5 targets must be finish with in the time limit

4 - you can use any 22LR rifle or rifles during the meet, if started with a target with a certain rifle, you can not change to a different one, until that target is done. A damaged or broken rifle can be replace at anytime, starting back up at the point if replacement, score with the bad rifle stand.

5 - the rifle must be completely hand held, no tripods, no bipods, you can use a sand bag, as long as your hand is between the rifle and the sand bag. 

6 - your yearly total, is the average of the total meets, if your average is the same as other shooters, the person with the most numbers of meets, gets the higher placement, there is also a minimum number of meets, you must shoot in, for your score to count.

7 - you can not switch lanes during your session, unless there is malfunctioning range equipment, if you start on lane 5 (example) you shoot on lane 5 until your done

8 -we shoot 50‘ indoors in the winter, at certain times we shoot 75’ and 100’, outdoors usually at the 3 or 4 picnic/pig roast events, per year.

Those are the basic rules, we have people shooting with almost $5000 custom rifles, some use family heritage guns (father or grandfather’s rifle), one guy shoots with a 1950s era $50 Montgomery-Wards rifle. Some use bolt actions, some use semi-autos, some use single shots, a couple use pump actions, one guy uses a Henry AR7 survival rifle, the selection of types of rifles used is vast.

The league grew into what it is, it’s cousins, kids, other relatives, school mates, wives/girlfriends (hopefully not at the same time) their friends and family, We shoot at 4 or 5 different ranges, in minimum groups of 3 for verification. shooting can be done on either Saturday or Sunday, all scores must be reported in, by Sunday night at 9 pm. It’s $15 a week, the year end first 3 place get a gift card ($1000/$500/$250) the rest after expenses go to a local charity (or charities).

I shot about 30-35 years ago, took a 10-15 year vacation, shot for 5-6 years, moved to Milwaukee for 2 years, return to CNY, been shooting on a regular basis every since. I‘ve never finished higher than second, the last 10 years or so, I’ve been continuously in the top ten, as high as 5th and no lower than 8th. I constantly shoot with 2 ex-BILs (wife #2 and wife #3), one ex-wife and her current husband both shoot (wife #1)

a weekend shoot, usually involves either lots of pizza or a visit to the Chinese Buffet.


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## mickri (Sep 17, 2020)

Brings back memories of when I was into smallbore prone target shooting back in high school.  Did a little bit of position shooting too.  Prone, sitting, kneeling and offhand.  I was shooting 50 yards, 50 meters, 100 yards and 100 meters.  I had an Anchutz that I bought in Germany and had it shipped home.  I forget the exact model.  It was configured for a certain type of international shooting.  Not the best for prone shooting.  It was all that I could afford.  I used whatever match ammo the military guys were getting rid of.  They were given more ammo than they could ever use up and it had to be gone when they got back to the base.   $5 for a brick was the going rate.  Often less than that.

At 50 yards virtually everybody was inside the 10 ring and the winners had the highest "X" count.  Some would even have perfect X counts.  200/20X  50 meters was a smaller target.  Winners again were decide by who had the highest X count.  Only a few shot 200.  Most were in the 190 to 199 score range.  100 yard scores were similar to the 50 meter scores.  100 meters was a whole different ballgame.  It was very rare for anybody to have a perfect score of 200.  This was with iron sights.  When things switched over to scopes  All the winners at all ranges shot perfect scores with the number of X's being the decider.   I didn't have a scope.  Only iron sights.

One trick that we used to pull on the new kids in the Jr gun club that I belonged to was to get a milk crate.  Put a knife in the front center and a balloon at each back corner.  Then try to split the bullet on the knife to pop the two balloons.  Of course we were using bird shot but the new kids didn't know that.  They would be in awe that we popped the balloons every time.  So that they wouldn't get too discouraged we would let them use our rifle that had bird shot.  Eventually we would let them in on the ammo we were using.

The most difficult shooting I ever did was to get my NRA Distinguished Expert.  I breezed through prone and sitting.  Kneeling was a little harder but not much.  Offhand or standing was really, really tough.   I was shooting at 50' at a 5 bullseye target.   Two rounds into each bullseye.  Prone and sitting required a score of 18 or better in each bullseye.  Kneeling and standing/offhand required 16 or better in each bullseye.  I was already off to college and had all of the prone. sitting and kneeling targets that I needed.  Our club leader caught me home on a weekend and literally drug me to the range.  Several hours later I had the rest of the offhand targets that I needed.

Memories.

I edited the above because my memory was off on what was required to get the DE.


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## Buffalo21 (Sep 27, 2020)

I went back to the range yesterday, it was both a poor and a good day, First off any day at the range is not bad, I shot 6 boxes of 22LR, at 100 feet indoors, through the Henry AR7 survival rifle and the Ruger Precision Rimfire. When I got down to the test series, it was both good and bad, I shot a 98, 99,  90, 100 and 100, for a 97.4 average, the 90 was somewhat soul crushing.

1 - one of the perfect targets - 100
2 - good target - 99
3 - good target - 98
4 - the Henry AR7
5 - the Ruger Precision Rimfire


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## Buffalo21 (Sep 27, 2020)

I am tempted to post the perfect targets on the refrigerator like kids art


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## westerner (Sep 27, 2020)

In the Grand Scheme of all things along these lines, the Group is nice to see and appreciate. An understanding of the mechanics and athletic endeavors is crucial to improvement. 

That said, the only shot that really truly counts is THE FIRST ONE.


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## Nutfarmer (Sep 28, 2020)

I have never been able to hold any kind of group with my ARr7


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## Buffalo21 (Sep 29, 2020)

Nutfarmer said:


> I have never been able to hold any kind of group with my ARr7



the targets shown were with the Ruger Precision Rimfire (RPR), with the AR7, my score is more in the 93-95% range, good but the Ruger American bolt-action and the RPR Are a lot better. My Henry 22LR pump action, is terrible, I’ve ordered better sights from a company in Montana, but they have not arrived yet.

So far in the league, I’ve shot,

Ruger Precision Rimfire
Ruger American bolt-action
Ruger 10/22 carbine
Henry AR 7
Remington 510 Target-Master (single shot)
Browning 22LR gallery gun
Savage 22LR bolt-action
Sears (Stevens) semi-automatic
H&H 22LR rook rifle conversion (single shoot)

I came in second in 2003-4,  using the Remington, but that was at a low period of the league, the last 2 years, I’ve used the RPR and while shooting for a higher average score, the competition has gotten better and they is also a higher active membership at this time.


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## Buffalo21 (Sep 29, 2020)

One of the guys is shooting a Vudoo custom made 22LR, his minus the scope (open sight league) and was by the time he got done somewhere in the $4500-$5000 range, he is currently 5th in the standings, with roughly $500 RPR package, as of Monday morning I was tied for 6th, with 2 other shooters.










						Apparition - JP APAC 700 Chassis - Vudoo Gun Works
					

The JP APAC - Fully ambidextrous and collapsible, the APAC™ meets the needs of the most uncompromising shooters the world has to offer.




					vudoogunworks.com


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## Madgepetto (Sep 29, 2020)

I shoot old single shots as a hobby....There's a 500 meter range about 20 miles away that's open to the public 7 days a week, it's dusty and hot but what a luxury! My Ballard is in 38-55 cal, I cast bullets from 265 to 330 grains for it and breech seat the bullets.On a really good day it will hold 1/2 minute of angle from a front rest, the 330 grain bullet is pretty good out to 500. Most days I can't hold as well as I should due to tremor making my right hand have a mind of it's own.
My other love is a Remington Hepburn Long Range Creedmoor in 45-100.It's a semi-religious experience to shoot this old beast, these days I'm casting 540 grain bullets for it and still playing with seating depth and powder charge trying to wring out the accuracy I know is in there, but with the old tang sight and globe front it's a challenge just to see the target clearly enough to do my part.Recoil is vigorous!

I'm just now beginning to build myself an 1877 Sharps Creedmoor to keep me busy, hence my joining this forum!


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## mickri (Sep 29, 2020)

I have thought of building a remington rolling block.  Probably never happen but pipe dreams can be fun and entertaining.


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## westerner (Sep 29, 2020)

Buffalo21 said:


> One of the guys is shooting a Vudoo custom


This 'sport' is like any of them. There is always somebody who thinks his money can overcome his lack of skill or understanding. 
Jeep catalogs are FULL of that stuff. Deer camp can have guys double dipping on this gig.  Tool trucks too.....did I type that outloud?


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## Buffalo21 (Oct 1, 2020)

I ordered a new 22LR today, I ordered a Winchester semi-automatic 22LR Wildcat, supposedly manufactured by the Turkish National Armory for Winchester, from Winchester’s design. The rifle should be here sometime by mid month (10/14 - 10/19), according to the paperwork.








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						Wildcat Uncaged
					






					www.winchesterguns.com


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## lordbeezer (Oct 1, 2020)

Older big bore single shots are addictive. Have 7 Remington rolling blocks. Couple more to put together. Then there’s martini’s. Have several. Their all fun to shoot


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## Madgepetto (Oct 1, 2020)

lordbeezer said:


> Older big bore single shots are addictive. Have 7 Remington rolling blocks. Couple more to put together. Then there’s martini’s. Have several. Their all fun to shoot


 Yes sir! I love 'em. I am thinking it would be fun to build a Martini action  later on after this project.Had a BSA Martini International 22 years ago, best prone rifle I've ever owned.


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## Janderso (Oct 9, 2020)

Buffalo21 said:


> (CCI Mini-Mag hollow points)


Not the best ammo in the world.


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## mickri (Oct 14, 2020)

Been thinking about how you might be able to jump from just out of the money to always being in the money.  You definitely have the skill to win matches.  So what can you do to make that jump.  I think the variable lies in the mini mag ammo you have to use.  Mini Mag ammo is made to a price point.  That means that there will be a variance from one round to another.  No much chance for a variance in the bullet or the casing.  That leaves the powder.  22's are sensitive to small differences in powder.  Have you thought about weighing each round.  Any weight difference would most likely be due to a different amount of powder.  You would need an accurate and consistent scale.  Any way just a suggestion.


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## Janderso (Oct 14, 2020)

mickri said:


> Been thinking about how you might be able to jump from just out of the money to always being in the money.  You definitely have the skill to win matches.  So what can you do to make that jump.  I think the variable lies in the mini mag ammo you have to use.  Mini Mag ammo is made to a price point.  That means that there will be a variance from one round to another.  No much chance for a variance in the bullet or the casing.  That leaves the powder.  22's are sensitive to small differences in powder.  Have you thought about weighing each round.  Any weight difference would most likely be due to a different amount of powder.  You would need an accurate and consistent scale.  Any way just a suggestion.


There are enough variables to affect the projectile without having to worry about inconsistent powder charges.
I went to Eley for my 22lr matches. It took care of those fliers. Expensive though. I don't even know if you can get it anymore.
What are you California guys doing? You can't buy online. I know, I live in the Golden State.
I learned some benchrest tips from an older fellow. One of the things besides proper breathing was to make sure my cheek was just touching the stock so my pulse would not affect the trajectory. It made a big difference for me.


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## mickri (Oct 14, 2020)

I used to shoot Eley also.  Great ammo.  I mostly used Winchester match ammo because that was what the military guys were selling.

I think that you can still buy online.  It just has to go through a California licensed ammo vendor.


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## Janderso (Oct 14, 2020)

mickri said:


> It just has to go through a California licensed ammo vendor.


I was not aware of that.


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## Buffalo21 (Oct 15, 2020)

It’s one of the league rules, CCI Mini-Mag hollow points, are the only ammo allowed to be used.


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## mickri (Oct 15, 2020)

Jeff and I were merely commenting on ammo we used to use.  Not that you should use it in your matches.  Back to Mini-Mag ammo.  Like I posted above I would weight every round looking for consistency.  You might also consider measuring the overall length too.  Sort the ammo into groups to see how different ammo performs in your rifle.  For testing I would set the rifle up in a rigid rest where all you have to do is pull the trigger.  The testing is to see how the ammo groups.  I would not be surprised to see the point of impact change from one group of ammo to another.  But the group size should be very consistent.  Do this testing indoors so wind is not a factor.

And you may find that there is no difference between the different groups of ammo.  The mental aspect of shooting can affect how well you shoot.  If you don't have confidence in your rifle, ammo, how you set up to shoot, etc., those nagging doubts will effect your shooting.  When you have that unexplained flyer.  Was it me.  Was it the ammo.  Was it the rifle.  Or whatever will swirl through your mind.


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## pontiac428 (Oct 15, 2020)

This format sounds like fun.  You don't need to shoot 10x, you just need to shoot better than the other guy.  Homolog ammunition evens the playing field, as does using production rifles (even some are practically made of plastic?).  The only edge one person has over the other is skill.  This is why jalopy class racing is so much fun.  I wouldn't change a thing other than banning muzzle breaks.


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## Buffalo21 (Dec 26, 2020)

So it back to the range yesterday (Christmas day) and today. The first thing on the list, was shoot my my league, 5 target average of 98.2%. Then is was the start of the Winchester Wildcat sighting in. I really like the rifle, but felt the rear peep sight was very cheesy, but for the actual rifle cost, it was to be expected. 

I bought an aftermarket M1 rear peep sight, that mounted to the rifle’s top rail, but while fully adjustable, it now requires a high front sight. Because at this point it’s height is unknown, I fabbed up a fully adjustable front sight out of an 18 mm, 2 piece shaft collar and a piece of #8-32 hardened all thread. So after about 15, 10 shot targets, i zero in the rifle, now I know that, with the M1 rear sight set at the middle of the adjustment range I need a front sight in the .690” to .700” height range.

After the sighting in, I then shot 3 series of targets, like I do with the Ruger Precision Rimfire, for the league. The averages with the temporary front sight were 97.8%, 98.2% and finally 97.6%. I feel pretty good about the rifles capabilities, I just wish mine were better. I also need new glasses.

The only real complaint with the Winchester Wildcat, is the high trigger pull, in all of the reviews, they say it varies from 4.8 to 5.9#, I‘m not sure what mine is, but it is high. So far the manual and all the other sources, fail to mention any way to adjust the trigger pull. So far my emails to Winchester, have not been responded to.


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## mickri (Dec 26, 2020)

You are getting that new rifle dialed in.  Congrats on the scores.

Way back when when I was shooting small bore prone I used different springs depending on the trigger pull requirements for the match.  Had one spring for 3 lb pull matches and another spring that got the trigger pull as low as I dared and still be safe.  The pull was only a couple of ounces.  I don't remember what it was.  The springs were easy to change on my Anchutz.


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## Toolmaker51 (Jan 3, 2021)

Buffalo21 said:


> I am tempted to post the perfect targets on the refrigerator like kids art


Back in the day, kid's art _could have been _perfect targets on the fridge.......or Coor's can missing the label's black [waterfall] seal. Mine was; 5mm Sheridan at 40 yards prone, after teaching myself gunsmithing.
Today it's rim and centerfire, but in reality not one bit more fun.

And terr-iific solution for correction of sight height! Shaft collar and all thread. I'm copy/ pasting that into my notepad.
Instances where I have to, it starts on my surface plate. Measure diameter of bolt, or establish centerline at breech elsewise, divide by half. Stick close fitting and greased pin gauge in muzzle, divide that by half. Set action level via height gauge readings of diameter corrections [1/2's]. Lower and raise rear sight, measuring that range of movement. The rest depends on prospective yardage for cartridge and desired range. PITA? Hell yea. Does it work? Hell yea.
Even in unfriendly weather or dark night skies!


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