# VFD Remote Switching help



## Danshell (Jul 29, 2020)

I know this topic is covered extensively on here and there is a massive amount of information online on the subject but so far most of the info whilst I can cross reference to my VFD, it is still a little confusing in some instances.
So I was hoping to get some help.

I am hoping to make a switch panel that has the following.......

1, Main Power on/off rotary switch (I am able to wire this as it will be for the 240v AC coming into the VFD)
2, Remote Start/ Stop push button for the VFD
3, Remote Rotary Fwd/Rev switch for the VFD
4, Remote Speed Pot for the VFD
5, Not critical but I was thinking an Emergency Stop might be nice as well at some stage

I guess everything I want is very common for a Lathe.
I am using a 3/4hp motor, input is 240v, output is to the 3ph motor.

It is wired up and works perfect using the VFD interface.

The VFD came with this little bit of paper to make the pot on the unit control the speed. The default was to use the arrows to control the speed.




Here is a pic of the terminal block on the actual unit.




And here is a link to the manual for the VFD
VFD Manual

Any advice or help in the way of a 'dummy's' guide to do what I want to do would be really appreciated. I know it is a lot to ask but if you dont ask..........

I was thinking the start/stop buttons will be just your standard NO switch on the start side . The FWD/REV rotary dial would also be NO and the Pot will be just a 5-10k 3 pin unit. Emergency stop I am unsure what to do with that. I dont know if it simply cuts the AC or if it is something that is done through the VFD with resistors?

Thanks for any help.


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## DavidR8 (Jul 29, 2020)

Calling @mksj!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mksj (Jul 30, 2020)

I did design a 1340 lathe system with a Folin VFD for a gentleman in Australia, but it was a bit more complicated and it used a proximity stop system. He was able to source the parts through AutomationDirect in Australia.  I have a schematic and programming files, but it may be a bit more than you want to do. It requires 3 relays and a 24VDC power supply. It retains the standard spindle switch control, jog, E-Stop and belt cover switch interlock.

The issue with lathes is you do not want to use what is typically known as 2 wire control which is a 3 way sustained switch Forward - Off - Reverse, as you may leave it on or bump it if you are using something like a drum switch. Although a drum switch is used on some of the older systems. You still want a system that will reset to the off position when power is applied to the VFD. So I use a latching power relay and relays for the forward and reverse run commands connected to the spindle switch. It sounds like you do not have a spindle switch or drum switch.

So the basic answers to your questions if not using relays would be the following recommendations:
Main power to the VFD should be a separate switch at the VFD control box or mounted on the machine cabinet, not combined in the run control box.

You can use what is known as 3 wire control (see 3 below) which uses a normally closed momentary switch (red button) for the stop and a normally open momentary switch (green button) for the run. Press the green button (momentary) and the machine will run, until you press the red button (momentary) which breaks run command. The default is run forward, and a 2 way sustained switch is used for the forward (no connection) or sustained connection is reverse. Any power loss and the machine will stop. Another maybe more attractive approach specific to the Folin VFD is the use of 3 wire control (see 2 below) using 3 momentary switches Forward is NO, Stop is NC, Reverse is NO. You press the direction you want and the lathe will run in that direction until you hit the stop button. You should also be able to be running in one direction and hit the opposite direction and the lathe will reverse.



I would probably add a jog, and in addition if I recall one of the VFD inputs can be programmed for emergency stop and also you can set to levels of braking if desired. Might tell us the lathe or provide some pictures. I can provide some more specifics as to connections and programming suggestions.

E-Stop you do not want to shut down the VFD power because you loose braking capability. An E-Stop is run in series with run commands as a NC switch block. Press the E-Stop and no commands can be issued and it acts like a sustained stop switch. Remote speed pot is a 5K linear pot with 3 connections to ACM, AI1 and 10V. You need to make programming changes for all these remote functions to work.




I can provide you with more specifics and programming once I know what you want or how to go about it, or PM me and I can help you directly.
Mark


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## Danshell (Jul 30, 2020)

OMG you are a legend thank you so much I really do appreciate this.

Would it be ok to keep the discussion going in here so other people in Australia using this VFD can see the info in future?

It is a South Bend 10k Lathe.

I was hoping to use cheapy ebay switches like these or similar...

start stop fwd rev switch

start stop fwd reverse button switch

Or these.....

rotary switch

rotary switch with light

Let me know your thoughts, thanks.

I am happy to put the main power AC on/off switch in a seperate location. Ill use an appropriate switch, perhaps one of those rotary switches with a green light.


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## mksj (Jul 30, 2020)

I would use better switches/box. The ones sold from AutomationDirect Australia are reasonable and better quality. They have legend plates for the switches. You can pick up a decent 5K wire wound 2-4 watt speed pot on eBay or other supplier. E-Stop should be able to find something on eBay, per the schematic you need a NO and NC switch blocks.





						Non Illuminated Pushbuttons - 22mm Metal Pushbuttons, Selector Switches, Indicator Lights & Accessories - Switchgear - DIRECT SELLER OF AUTOMATION AND INDUSTRIAL CONTROL PRODUCTS
					

Direct Automation Pty Ltd is a direct seller of automation and industrial control products such as PLCs, sensors, pushbuttons and AC drives/motors,




					www.directautomation.com.au
				




I would not use a rotary switch for direction. This particular VFD allows 3 wire control with momentary switches for Forward, Stop and Reverse which is a better setup in particular for a lathe. The schematic is simple, and I outlined some programming parameters that should work. The programming of 3 wire for S1-S3 is unclear as to the the programming of each input, typical Asian manual. I indicated what to try. You have the option to add different braking rates, power indicator light run off of the VFD internal 24VDC power supply and emergency E-Stop programmed input. The VFD internal 24 VDC power supply is rated at 200mA, it could also be used to run an inexpensive spindle tach that can run off of 24VDC.
Mark


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## Danshell (Jul 30, 2020)

mksj said:


> I would use better switches/box. The ones sold from AutomationDirect Australia are reasonable and better quality. They have legend plates for the switches. You can pick up a decent 5K wire wound 2-4 watt speed pot on eBay or other supplier. E-Stop should be able to find something on eBay, per the schematic you need a NO and NC switch blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mark I am at work at the moment so I will reply later but after having a quick look at what you have done for me I am very grateful, you sir are good person.
Do you have a paypal link I can send a little bit of Aussie $$$ your way please.....please dont say no, I insist. This information is absolute gold.

Just one quick question though. I may have missed something but wouldnt using a momentary switch for forward and reverse mean Id have to hold the switch to keep the lathe running?

EDIT: I just re-read your reply. You are talking about push button momentary switches. Sorry, here I was picturing myself holding a rotary switch on to keep the lathe going!!!

EDIT AGAIN I am still a bit confused about the momentary switch for forward and reverse......my limited understanding is that it would need to be held on to keep the machine running?


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## mksj (Jul 30, 2020)

With 3 wire control, one uses momentary switches, and you do not need to hold the button on. Two wire control requires a maintained input to control, 3 wire think of it as a latching electrical circuit which will continue to run until the power is broken. When you press the momentary stop button it breaks the latch and resets to the off state. Your particular VFD is a bit unique in that it will latch on in either the forward or reverse direction, most VFD 3 wire controls have an on (forward) and off momentary commands, but reverse requires a sustained signal (maintained). The cost of parts and trying it is nominal, it should work as described and really quite simple.

People see VFD's, CNC and other control systems as a black box and what do I do, been there installing my first VFD. Just trying to share a bit of my experience so people can enjoy their machines safely. That's all it is, please invest in your own machine and then help others.
Mark


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## Danshell (Jul 31, 2020)

mksj said:


> With 3 wire control, one uses momentary switches, and you do not need to hold the button on. Two wire control requires a maintained input to control, 3 wire think of it as a latching electrical circuit which will continue to run until the power is broken. When you press the momentary stop button it breaks the latch and resets to the off state. Your particular VFD is a bit unique in that it will latch on in either the forward or reverse direction, most VFD 3 wire controls have an on (forward) and off momentary commands, but reverse requires a sustained signal (maintained). The cost of parts and trying it is nominal, it should work as described and really quite simple.
> 
> People see VFD's, CNC and other control systems as a black box and what do I do, been there installing my first VFD. Just trying to share a bit of my experience so people can enjoy their machines safely. That's all it is, please invest in your own machine and then help others.
> Mark




Does the forward/stop/reverse start the lathe? Is it used instead of having a seperate on/off switch?

Also, I cant seem to find a braking micro switch. What is its function in the jog circuit?

Thanks again.


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## mksj (Aug 2, 2020)

Press the forward momentary button the spindle turns the spindle forward. Press the Stop button it stops. Press the reverse button the spindle goes in the opposite direction. Braking micro switch is any small  2 way switch (common attaches to the center, braking 2 stage connects to one of the outboard connectors), to either activate the 2 stage braking input or not. It is just a small toggle switch so it does not take up much space. A jog is a slow speed momentary button to bump the spindle, either to turn it to line up the key, check gear engagement, check the TIR on a work piece or some people use it for threading or using a die. It can be one direction typically forward, or in either direction using a 2 way toggle. It uses separate inputs from the FOR/REV, requires a sustained contact to run and is at a fixed frequency usually 6 hz.
Micro Toggle SDDT ON-ON


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## Danshell (Aug 2, 2020)

Thanks very much for all your help, I understand now.

I have ordered all the parts so Ill let you know how I go, they may take a little while to get here.


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## Danshell (Sep 13, 2020)

Just an update on this for those that may be interested.

I finally got all my switches (postage is stupid slow here due to covid apparently) so I wired it and programmed it as per the fantastic diagram and instructions from Mark and everything works as I hoped it would. 

A couple of things to note. The control panel will most likely be changed. Mark suggested that the 240v AC on/off switch and Emergency stop should be seperate and also I am not certain the other controls are in the best spot either. 
Also, programming this VFD was not as straight forward as I hoped. The forward/stop/reverse programming just wouldn’t go in for some reason. Mark gave me a couple of options to try and neither would accept the number it needed. 
I reset back to factory defaults a couple of times and tried programming it in a few different sequences before I finally got it to accept the numbers required to make it work. 
I can’t remember now what sequence it was though lol I am pretty sure it worked when I programmed the fwd/stop/rev first before anything else. 

Anyway I really can not thank Mark enough, it works exactly as he said it would. 

I am very happy with it.


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