# Surface Plates and Height Gages



## Chips O'Toole (Jan 30, 2020)

I don't have a height gage or a surface gage. The vast majority of my projects don't require anything beyond a cheap set of Chinese calipers, so I have been lazy about metrology. I would like to atone for that. I have a small Grade B Enco surface plate, and I'm thinking I would like to get something better and somewhat larger.

It looks like an 18" x 24" plate is around 150 pounds. Anything bigger than that, I do not want to deal with right now. A 12" x 18" plate is around 80 pounds. What's a good size plate for general use in a hobby workshop? I can't be more specific than that because I don't have a specific project in mind right now.

I don't know much about height gages. It looks like there are a lot of used ones on Ebay. I saw a 12" Mitutoyo that looks nice. Is there anything I should be careful NOT to get?


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## Technical Ted (Jan 30, 2020)

The best size for you depends on the size of the work you are going to measure. You want something big enough that you can set the piece to be measured up on and allow enough room around it to work your height gage or whatever you are going to use to measure it with... I know this is vague, but it's a vague question. As most things, it depends... A general rule would be as big as you can within reason. Consider moving it around in your shop if needed and the shipping cost when buying. You can always use a large plate for small work, but can be difficult to do larger work on a small plate. 

Remember when thinking about weight that granite plates come in different thicknesses as well. An extra 1" of thickness will make a lot of difference. 

I personally would not suggest buying a high grade plate for general purpose hobby work. Save some money and go with an economy grade.

Ted


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## JimDawson (Jan 30, 2020)

Chips O'Toole said:


> I don't know much about height gages. It looks like there are a lot of used ones on Ebay. I saw a 12" Mitutoyo that looks nice. Is there anything I should be careful NOT to get?



I would stay away from the digital ones, especially if you only have one.  The battery is always dead just when you need it, actually the Mitutoyo digital have really good battery life, not so much with other brands.  I personally like vernier height gauges.


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## ezduzit (Jan 30, 2020)

My surface plate is 12" x 18", is all I really have room for, and has been adequate for everything so far. Paid around $50 for it, used, on eBay.


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## benmychree (Jan 30, 2020)

Surface plates 18 X 24 are good for nearly anything that a hobby shop will need to do; so far as height gages are concerned, 12" is good for nearly any work, and I quite agree with Jim Dawson, that vernier height gages are desirable, but do not be tempted to go with a cheapie with a 25 division vernier, they are hard to read, especially for those of us whose vision is not what it used to be, the 50 division vernier is much easier to read.  I bought a Starrett 12" height gage back in the 1960s, new for a bit over $100, And it still serves me well.


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## Chips O'Toole (Jan 30, 2020)

So if I grab a 12" or 18" Mitutoyo vernier gage, I should be satisfied for now?


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## middle.road (Jan 30, 2020)

Chips O'Toole said:


> So if I grab a 12" or 18" Mitutoyo vernier gage, I should be satisfied for now?


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## mikey (Jan 30, 2020)

I have a grade A 12 x 18 x 3 plate because surface plates are not commonly found here in HI. It has served me well and I don't see a need for going bigger in a hobby shop unless you plan to scrape stuff. I keep a 9 x 12 around for lapping stuff or quick small projects.

I have a 6" Starrett dial height gauge and it is used for quick layouts. My dual-column Mitutoyo digital is used for more critical layout, measuring or when I need to attach a dial test indicator to it for some reason. The vast majority of the things I do in my shop is well within the reach of my 6" gauge. 

I think a 12" gauge is big enough for most things. 18" will be huge. Don't forget that you have to store the thing.


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## C-Bag (Jan 30, 2020)

The beauty of a vernier height gage is they are not as immediately sought after as digital. Another beauty is they never need to be recalibrated which digital they do. Take your time and get to know what's out there. I got my Starrett 14" master bar HG on eBay with an old well taken care of BestTest TI and a bunch of attachments, snugs extra scribes and probes for $140 w/shipping. It didn't have its box with it but the guy packed it beautifully. Not until later was it pointed out to me this was a sought after unit because of the master bar. Very very expensive new. Somebody took care of it and used it al lot as all the paint was rubbed off the base but the bottom was like a mirror and in perfect shape. The condition of the bottom is paramount. If they don't show the pick be wary. I've gotten a couple of old surface gages and both needed to be refinished because they were no longer flat.


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## Chips O'Toole (Jan 30, 2020)

There is no hope of finding one of these things locally, and Ebay seems to be heavy on the big ones right now. I'm sure something will turn up.


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## pstemari (Jan 31, 2020)

What C-Bag said. The Starrett Master Vernier height gages are available new at Amazon for about $2,000. On eBay, they can be had in excellent condition for about $100. The action on them is incredibly smooth. The bar is about 14" of hardened, ground, and highly polished tool steel. Note that it's a 12" capacity since the extra length is needed for the vernier.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## projectnut (Jan 31, 2020)

If you're considering buying a surface plate on eBay or from an online vendor be sure to get the shipping cost up front.  Shars has a Grade A 18" x 24" grade A plate for $118.00.  When I tried to get s price for shipping to Florida it said to call and speak to a representative.  That probably means the shipping cost will be substantial.





__





						Grade A 18" x 24" Black Granite Surface Plate
					

Shars Tool




					www.shars.com
				




I would continue to look locally and put out searches on eBay and Craigslist.  Often times shops are selling larger plates for good prices simply because very few people are willing to pay the shipping cost.  I was able to pick up a Challenge 24" x 36" hand scrapped plate cast iron a couple years ago for $100.00.  Several out of town shops were interested, but the cost of shipping was prohibitive.  The weight of the plate I purchased is 475 lbs., plus another 150 lbs. for the table and lifting bars.

When checking eBay be sure to do an advanced search on sold items.  Quite often the asking price doesn't reflect the actual selling price.  When I bought my Challenge plate there were several similar size ones that had an asking price of over $1,000.00, but an actual selling price in the $100.00 to $300.00 range.


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## C-Bag (Jan 31, 2020)

Surface plates like so many things run in streaks. There have been huge plates on stands for $3-400. It's like the huge old manual machines their size ends up being a liability. When looking at surface grinder the guy was wanting to sell a huge Starrett pink granite plate with stand for $800. I knew he wanted less but I had no room for a monster like that, which I did.

 I usually am keeping ongoing searches for several things at once and was keeping an eye out for 18x24 granite plate and caught a small shop going out of biz and picked up the 18x24 with OEM stand for $65 and had even been inspected not 3mo. before. Deals are out there just gotta be patient.

Also the really cool thing about the Starrett master bar is the quick release for quick adjust and the big knob in the base for fine height adjust. Way cool.


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## Chips O'Toole (Jan 31, 2020)

I have no idea how to operate a master height gage. Looking into it. It seems to be a tool which is not useful except for calibrating other gages.


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## C-Bag (Jan 31, 2020)

Chips O'Toole said:


> I have no idea how to operate a master height gage. Looking into it. It seems to be a tool which is not useful except for calibrating other gages.


A surface plate without a good height gage is like having a lathe without tooling IMHO. Yeah,you can set the height of other gages like a surface gage accurately. But you can do what a surface gage does directly, without the surface gage. I use mine whenever I'm going to do any critical measurements on the plate. I find it far more stable for mounting GAGES or probes on than the surface gage. I got my height gage before I got my first surface gage and actually before I got my 18x24 plate when all I had was the 9x12.


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## Chips O'Toole (Jan 31, 2020)

It appears that height gages are generally sold without scribers or any way to attach them.


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## C-Bag (Jan 31, 2020)

Yup, that's why they sit there forever. These dealers part everything out separately. Even sell the boxes separate and ask almost as much for box as the gage! How stupid is that. And yeah, a height gage without scribes etc are worthless. It took me a couple of months to find mine. It had to be in good shape have a lot of snugs, scribes etc and not outrageous shipping. Mine didn't have a box but my SO made a nice cover for it no problem. BTW you never have enough snugs as they are all different and no matter how many you have you'll get stumped. This is what I got with mine.


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## Surprman (Jan 31, 2020)

I picked up a 12x18 Starrett Crystal Pink surface plate at the cabin fever expo last year.  I got it for $50 and the best part was I didn’t have to pay any shipping!   It was a bit grungy but it cleaned up really nice with kitchen granite cleaner.   I also got a nice scriber for it.  I don’t have a height gage yet but something in the 12” to 15” would be good for my shop’s capabilities.


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## Chips O'Toole (Jan 31, 2020)

It appears that I put an offer in on a Scherr-Tumico with a bunch of stuff included. I must have forgotten. Anyway, it's mine now. Time to think about a surface gage. SUGGESTIONS?


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## Chips O'Toole (Jan 31, 2020)

Incidentally, Amazon is selling a Grade A 18" by 12" Chinese surface plate for $171.50 with free shipping.


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## Chips O'Toole (Jan 31, 2020)

Given the things I'm reading about old surface gages and their crooked bottoms, I'm thinking I may just go with a new one from Shars.


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## C-Bag (Jan 31, 2020)

Chips O'Toole said:


> It appears that I put an offer in on a Scherr-Tumico with a bunch of stuff included. I must have forgotten. Anyway, it's mine now. Time to think about a surface gage. SUGGESTIONS?


Yeah, don't fall a sleep late at nite with the home shopping net work on 

Scherr-Tumico is good stuff, you should be happy. Gotta post pics when you get it....


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## Chips O'Toole (Feb 3, 2020)

The gage arrived. I now understand just how big an 18" gage is. The wooden box looks like a child's coffin. 

It came with a bunch of little stuff, so it's usable as-is. Maybe I should get a 6" gage some day.


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## Meta Key (Feb 4, 2020)

Chips O'Toole said:


> I now understand just how big an 18" gage is.



Heh..   Yes, I have the same Starrett surface plate and my height gage is also 18" high.  I think I've only used the full range of the gage a few times in the 20 or so years I've owned the thing but it has never been in my way.  A 12" would certainly have been adequate and probably a better fit for the little stone but, hey, it works just fine.  

Best thing I did was put the stone on top of a small Kennedy roll around.  It puts the work high enough so that when sitting in a comfy shop chair I can really see what I'm doing without stooping down.  Very comfortable to do measuring and layout work at, more or less, eye level.  Also, the roll around makes it easy to move the thing around in the shop. Surprising how convenient that can be..




MK


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