# Drum switch to Motor with board If I eliminate the board?



## woodchucker (Mar 30, 2017)

So I'm a little stumped right now, I believe this is doable w/o a separate on/off switch, I read some of the other posts, and I think I can do this with the drum switch. I believe if I eliminate the board (which eliminates the thermal protection, and direct wire I can do it.   Am I wrong.


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 31, 2017)

Hi woodchucker,
the board contains the centrifugal start switch.
you could possibly make it work, but you'd need to make provision for a momentary start switch.


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

You can do it and keep the board and thermal thingie too.  I assume you want to run it on 115 volts.   
If you give me a second I can whip up a sketch..
Mark S.


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

Ok this ought to do it: 
	

		
			
		

		
	



Disconnect your two start leg wires, blue and yellow and connect them to 3 and 4 on the drum switch.   Everything that used to go to that blue, extend with a single wire and connect to 1 on the drum switch. Everything that used to go to yellow, bring it to 6 on the drum switch. Single wire again. Drum 2 not used.
Your hot line wire still goes only to 1 on the motor.  Your line neutral should go only to 5 on the drum switch.
That should give you forward and reverse with off in the center.  We are breaking the neutral to kill the motor in this configuration.  Swap blue and yellow if necessary to get the motor rotation to match the label on the drum switch cover.
Remember that the motor terminal 1 is always live. If that's not acceptable there are alternate connections but would probably require chucking the thermal. Make sure you have a separate safety ground wire to the motor case which connects to a reliable water-pipe type ground.
Mark S.


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 31, 2017)

i saw no reference to manufacturer or model of drum switch in the OP's description,
identifying the drum switch may prove to be essential.
there are many types of drum switches, all are not wired the same


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## woodchucker (Mar 31, 2017)

Ulma Doctor said:


> Hi woodchucker,
> the board contains the centrifugal start switch.
> you could possibly make it work, but you'd need to make provision for a momentary start switch.



I'm keeping the board with the cent. switch, just not terminating off the board.
I figure if I go to direct wire and eliminate the thermal, I get closer to a motor designed for the switch.


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## woodchucker (Mar 31, 2017)

markba633csi said:


> Ok this ought to do it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am chucking the thermal switch.. And no I don't want neutral as the switched, I would rather hot be switched. Thanks.


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## woodchucker (Mar 31, 2017)

Ulma Doctor said:


> i saw no reference to manufacturer or model of drum switch in the OP's description,
> identifying the drum switch may prove to be essential.
> there are many types of drum switches, all are not wired the same



I included the wiring diagram from the vendor (electric motor warehouse).. Its an RS-1A-SH by Relay and Control Corp.


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

OK it's only a little more work to switch both the line wires.  Essentially you need to wire as per the "single phase" version on the drum switch diagrams, even though the capacitor and start switch are not shown, the principle is the same; they are just in series with the start winding. 
I believe you can keep the thermal too,  I think we covered this in an earlier post- let me see if I can find it and I'll repost it. 
Mark S.


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## woodchucker (Mar 31, 2017)

markba633csi said:


> Ok this ought to do it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I actually think you are close, but Drum 2 is used for line in, and Drum 1 as you said, that switches the hot on and off.


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## woodchucker (Mar 31, 2017)

Would this work?


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

I'm trying to identify the windings but I only see 5 "winding wires" coming out of the motor:
red
yellow
brown
black 
darkish blue
should be 6. 
there must be a splice, let me look at the 220 volt hookup for a bit..


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

Is there a grey wire on your drawing? What is that one connected to the black that goes to L1?
MS
ps yes your drawing looks workable if you can account for all 6 winding wires


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## woodchucker (Mar 31, 2017)

markba633csi said:


> I'm trying to identify the windings but I only see 5 "winding wires" coming out of the motor:
> red
> yellow
> brown
> ...



I have 
Blue
Yellow
Brwn
Red
Green
Black
Here's a better image, I think this is what you were saying


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

Oh I see it's a green not darkish blue


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

Does that blue cap wire go straight out to the board or does it take a detour into the windings first.  I'm having trouble visualising which two wires are the start winding
Mark


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

Yellow is one end of the start winding, then which is the other end? 
M


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## woodchucker (Mar 31, 2017)

markba633csi said:


> Yellow is one end of the start winding, then which is the other end?
> M



I thought the blue was the switch to the start winding. And green was the other end of it.
And then yellow would be the run?

wouldn't the capacitor and centrifigul switch attach to the start winding?


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

I was trying to correlate this Baldor diagram to your motor, the colors are different of course but I can't account for the 6 winding ends.


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

I thought the green one goes from the terminal board to the cap..?  No? Something I'm missing here
M
if yellow and green are the start winding your drawing may not work


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

Here's another diagram that may be helpful:  (disregard the colors) (centrifugal misspelled)


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

I'm thinking black and yellow are the start winding ends...


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

Your motor must be the strangest color scheme I've seen yet LOL


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## woodchucker (Mar 31, 2017)

Green from cap, goes to the back of the term board, which connects to white (which is the thermal overload protection) , then thermal O/L goes to black which attaches to blue which goes to the start (cent switch)


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

So if the blue and yellow are the ends of the start winding then your drawing should work.
blue and yellow to 3 and 4.
power to 1 and 5 (or 2 and 6)
remaining two wire groups to opposite corners of drum. 
MS


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

Do you have a continuity tester or an ohmmeter?  I would ring out the windings to be sure. You may have to open the start switch with a piece of cardboard to get valid readings on the cap and the start winding.
MS


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## woodchucker (Mar 31, 2017)

so if yellow and blue need to be switched to reverse the motors, is it safe to say that yellow and blue are the start winding?


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

No because you said the blue only goes (or comes from) the cap.  Does it go anywhere else? I'm not clear on:
A) which colors are the run windings
B) which colors are the start winding- if yellow is one end where is the other?  
Until we know for sure you're gonna have fireworks.  or a tripped circuit breaker.
Mark S.


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## markba633csi (Mar 31, 2017)

You don't want to have your centrifugal switch or the cap directly across the line inadvertently, that's why I'm stressing caution here. That's a possibility we want to avoid.
MS
ps I'll check back on this in a few hours... ciao


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## woodchucker (Apr 1, 2017)

markba633csi said:


> No because you said the blue only goes (or comes from) the cap.  Does it go anywhere else? I'm not clear on:
> A) which colors are the run windings
> B) which colors are the start winding- if yellow is one end where is the other?
> Until we know for sure you're gonna have fireworks.  or a tripped circuit breaker.
> Mark S.



I never said blue goes/comes from cap. Blue goes to the centrifigul switch, which then goes to the cap.
So here's what I have continuity wise:
Blue    -   Yellow
Red     - Green
Blk     - Brwn

If you look at the pics you can see how the brown and green are on the backside of the terminal block.


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## markba633csi (Apr 1, 2017)

OK I've been referencing those first pictures you posted and was not clear about the cap wires.  Still can't see clearly- it looks like the cap has a blue and a green wire coming out to the board.
M


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## markba633csi (Apr 1, 2017)

There must be two greens, that would explain a lot
M


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## woodchucker (Apr 1, 2017)

No, there is one green.
Ok, I'll work on this myself. Thanks


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## markba633csi (Apr 1, 2017)

See the green that connects to that white thermal wire is not the one from the cap!  There's another green from the cap to the start winding, the other end of the start winding is yellow- see? 
So this should work; drum switch:  (remove the thermal)
1 to line hot
5 to line neutral
3 blue from start switch
4 yellow 
2 black and green 
6 red and brown

Sorry it took so long
Mark S.


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## woodchucker (Apr 1, 2017)

There's only one green, that green does go to the cap. The white goes to the thermal overload, the other end of that thermal overload goes to power, and the third leg of the thermal overload goes to the 220 connection #3 on the motor wiring.


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## markba633csi (Apr 1, 2017)

Well if my last post doesn't work I guess I'll have to call it a day.  
Good luck
Mark S.


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## woodchucker (Apr 3, 2017)

Mark, you were right there were 2 greens.  I ohmed out the green again to the cap. It had a higher resistance, so what I think is that the green from the cap goes into a paper insulsator, and the green that goes to the board comes out of a paper insulator. They are not the same green wire. 
The motor is wired as in my diagram and is working forward and reverse in 120v mode. I may try it in 220v when I go to permanently hook it up. Right now, I'm re-assembling the mill. And waiting on bearings.


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## markba633csi (Apr 8, 2017)

Never argue with the Master, grasshopper!  Glad u got it working
MS
ps It's actually not common practice to use green for current-carrying conductors,  probably it's against the code, and they did it twice!  Like I said, it's the oddest color scheme I've run across.


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