# first mill and its a Wells Index 745



## jimbo762 (Jul 14, 2017)

I haven't touched a mill in at least 25 years but i've been needing a drill press.  Not just a little drill press but a decent one.  after seeing the prices on those and having been playing a friends cnc plasma table, well, more like total teardown, electrical troubleshooting, computer/software replacement, and then full setup, i was hooked on cnc.  
So i've been watching local ads for roughly 8 months, just waiting for the right deal to come along.  It finally did this week.
I learned you can pick up a Wells Index 745 with a 2 ton cherry picker too LOL.
I ended up with the mill, some kind of rotary table with swappable "surfaces", one is like a lathe chuck, and one is a flat plate with grooves, made by Rutland.  Also got a complete collet set, all R8, few handfuls of various used end mills, couple of boring heads, 3 snap on tap and die sets (not sure how its related to the mill but i wasn't complaining), a huge wooden box of what looks like 99 (10x10 layout minus 1) incremental woodruff key bits with only one having any use, a chineseum vise, starret dial indicator with magnet base, and all the t bolts, i guess they are called, that slide in the table to hold work in place as well as all the interlocking stepped pieces for those.  
The quill spins freely and moves up and down well, x, y, and z, all move nice now but took a little back and forth to get going.  This thing has been in storage in Arizona for a decade so i'm sure all the grease is shot.  Even if it is not, its getting replaced.  Only thing i couldn't test was the motor and i'm not too concerned about that.  Its a 2hp 220 3 phase, so if its bad, its cheap.  Just need to hunt down a VFD and figure that out.  
My biggest fear was something being seized up and rust on the ways but they look great since they are coated with a fine layer of grease.  
As i tear into it next week, i'll get some pics to help with the many questions i'm sure to have.
So far, the only noticeable issue is the shaft for z axis is bent at handle.  The handle still goes on and it still works, but it is noticeably bent.  
I only got two pics after i got it home and unloaded and the head is still rotated down.  The pic in the storage shed was all i had to go on but you can see the rotary thing on the table.  It has to weigh 80+ pounds.  Took a camera with me but it was WAY to hot today to mess with it.  Thinking i couldn't go wrong for $1000 out the door, no delivery though .


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## 4GSR (Jul 14, 2017)

Hey, great find!
I could kick myself for not buying one near me a couple years back.  Let us know your progress.  Ken 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk


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## Bob Korves (Jul 14, 2017)

Great mill!  The grease is not so good.  All the sliding ways and lead screws are supposed to be oiled, not greased.  Yes, they look like automotive Zerk fittings, but they are definitely for oil.  The tightness in the machine is because of the grease.  The grease will also capture the swarf and turn it into lapping paste, wearing the surfaces away.  The table, saddle and knee will need to be taken off, completely disassembled, cleaned to bare metal, and any lube lines cleaned out, and then put back together using a way oil like Mobil Vactra #2.  The good news is that the grease kept rust away over the last decade, you will get to know the mill, and you will have an opportunity to adjust the gibs for a nice sliding fit.


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## T Bredehoft (Jul 14, 2017)

Your "Rotary thing on the table" is worth what you paid. Generally known as a "Dividing Head". It can be rotated (crank on the back) to make either rotary cuts, or used as a spacer, to make a number of identical cuts in a round piece. Gears, or holes in a circle or what have  you. Once you get apart and back together  you'll have fun putting CNC to it. Should work a charm.


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## Bob Korves (Jul 14, 2017)

T Bredehoft said:


> Your "Rotary thing on the table" is worth what you paid. Generally known as a "Dividing Head". It can be rotated (crank on the back) to make either rotary cuts, or used as a spacer, to make a number of identical cuts in a round piece. Gears, or holes in a circle or what have  you. Once you get apart and back together  you'll have fun putting CNC to it. Should work a charm.


That style is not a dividing head, it is commonly called a "super spacer."  It does plain indexing, and can use masks to avoid the increments you do not want while dropping into the increments you do want.  Tom is correct that they are quite expensive new.


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## Martin W (Jul 15, 2017)

Congratulations on your mill. Good deal too.
Cheers
Martin


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## jimbo762 (Jul 15, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> That style is not a dividing head, it is commonly called a "super spacer."  It does plain indexing, and can use masks to avoid the increments you do not want while dropping into the increments you do want.  Tom is correct that they are quite expensive new.



Are these masks additional pieces added to the super spacer?  If so, that explains what the box full of stuff that went with it is.  Im pretty sure there are lathe gears in here that insisted couldnt go with this but he said just take it.  On a side note, the reason i guessed they were lathe gears was because i had to move the very large lathe to get to the mill in the back of the storage unit in order to make a path. 

I was planning on doing a full teardown on the table, saddle and knee so i could start with a known clean slate so to speak.  It has the bijur oil pump on the side but most of the lines have been cut,  i'm guessing, while it was in storage as the oil had leaked into the floor.  

Really looking forward to getting into this thing now.  Thank you all for the info so far.  Much appreciated.
Jim


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## T Bredehoft (Jul 15, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> That style is not a dividing head, it is commonly called a "super spacer



You're right , Bob, its a super Spacer, It's been 17 years since I was in a large enough shop to use one. . On the other hand, does the Super Space have a hand wheel? that's what threw me.


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## Bob Korves (Jul 15, 2017)

jimbo762 said:


> Are these masks additional pieces added to the super spacer?  If so, that explains what the box full of stuff that went with it is.  Im pretty sure there are lathe gears in here that insisted couldnt go with this but he said just take it.  On a side note, the reason i guessed they were lathe gears was because i had to move the very large lathe to get to the mill in the back of the storage unit in order to make a path.
> 
> I was planning on doing a full teardown on the table, saddle and knee so i could start with a known clean slate so to speak.  It has the bijur oil pump on the side but most of the lines have been cut,  i'm guessing, while it was in storage as the oil had leaked into the floor.
> 
> ...


The masks are sheet metal, and keep the indexing pins out of holes you are not using for your job.  As a guess, let's say the spacer has 36 notches or holes for indexing.  You want a 6 hole pattern.  You install a mask that blocks all the holes except for the 6 you are using.  You can of course use it without the masks, but then mistakes are possible.  The masks fit into the back of the super spacer, under a cover.  Look in there regardless, so you understand how it works.  It is a fairly simple mechanism, the reason for the high prices is a mystery to me.  The first photo shows one that can also work like a rotary table, the second photo shows one that does not.


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## jimbo762 (Jul 17, 2017)

Got home and got to get it positioned where i want it as well a start tearing into it.  At this point i am leaning towards a complete teardown, clean up and rebuild.  Found some problems that werent evident and/or i didnt see them initially.
The most concerning is the table.  It had swarf mixed with grease in the middle of the table when i picked it up and i assumed that the middle looked like the ends.  Well, you know what you get when you assume lol.
Here is what i found when i cleaned it all off.








Also found a missing bolt on the belt/motor housing:



Here is a pic of the bent z axis shaft.  It doesnt look unrepairable.



and here are some overall condition pictures showing the ways and gibs, the cut oiler lines, name tags, etc.  









Oiler




After having the head upside down all weekend, there are some leaks in spots that im pretty sure there shouldnt be leaks.



Some missing/wrong dial lockdown screws.





I have the handle for this but when i put it on, it will not rotate.  Pretty sure this is for finer control of the quill but it wont budge and i'm not going to put a pipe wrench on it quite yet .  Also, cant get the quill feed rate lever to budge either.  The levers on the other side all work as expected, the high/neutral/low and the power feed engage/disengage.



The two name plates on it.


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## rrjohnso2000 (Jul 17, 2017)

Looks like a beast! No problem with a few battle scars. No problems that can't be overcome


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## 4GSR (Jul 17, 2017)

The elevation shaft bent is a easy fix.  Mine was bent too.  Chop it off, make a stub shaft to fit into a bore in the main shaft.  Loctite and a couple of tapered pins and it's fixed.  More to it than that.  Or you could make a totally new shaft if you like.  Your call.  Word of caution,  There is a set screw holding the bevel gear on the shaft.  Get that screw out before attempting to remove the shaft.


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## azshadeguy (Jul 17, 2017)

Wow another 745 here in mesa.


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## jimbo762 (Jul 17, 2017)

azshadeguy said:


> Wow another 745 here in mesa.



HAHA, that was the last thing i was expecting to read on here.  I'm out near signal butte and ray.


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## azshadeguy (Jul 17, 2017)

Broadway and Gilbert


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## jimbo762 (Jul 17, 2017)

4gsr said:


> The elevation shaft bent is a easy fix.  Mine was bent too.  Chop it off, make a stub shaft to fit into a bore in the main shaft.  Loctite and a couple of tapered pins and it's fixed.  More to it than that.  Or you could make a totally new shaft if you like.  Your call.  Word of caution,  There is a set screw holding the bevel gear on the shaft.  Get that screw out before attempting to remove the shaft.



No access to a lathe (yet) so i'm limited to the tools at hand.   
Thank you for the heads up on that set screw.  Been watching Steve Watroba's Wells Index 747 teardown and rebuild videos.  Though its a different model, it has a lot of similarities.  Unfortunately, a lot of small differences in those models too.
After removal, I was thinking of just heating it up and letting the press straighten it back out to "close enough".   As far as i can tell, what i lose in temper/strength at that end of the shaft by heating it really should have little effect since it only receives rotational force, and not a lot of that.  I could easily be wrong on that (wouldnt be the first, or last, time) so if thats a dumb idea, it would be great to know that before i do it.


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## jimbo762 (Jul 17, 2017)

azshadeguy said:


> Broadway and Gilbert



is yours in a space with AC?


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## azshadeguy (Jul 17, 2017)

No ac I run a cooler which sucks this time of year


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## jimbo762 (Jul 17, 2017)

ya, i'm just in the garage with the door open and a fan running.


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## 4GSR (Jul 22, 2017)

jimbo762 said:


> No access to a lathe (yet) so i'm limited to the tools at hand.
> Thank you for the heads up on that set screw.  Been watching Steve Watroba's Wells Index 747 teardown and rebuild videos.  Though its a different model, it has a lot of similarities.  Unfortunately, a lot of small differences in those models too.
> After removal, I was thinking of just heating it up and letting the press straighten it back out to "close enough".   As far as i can tell, what i lose in temper/strength at that end of the shaft by heating it really should have little effect since it only receives rotational force, and not a lot of that.  I could easily be wrong on that (wouldnt be the first, or last, time) so if thats a dumb idea, it would be great to know that before i do it.


Yeah, the 747 is slightly different.  Should be good for most anything down below the head, very little changes.  The real changes didn't happen until the 800 series came out.  As for heating up the shaft to straighten, go for it!  There's not much critical to the shaft or what runs on it.  And my guess is, it's just a piece of 1018 or 1215 cold rolled steel shafting.  So you don't have to worry about disturbing any heat treatment in the shaft. 
Ken


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## Silverbullet (Jul 22, 2017)

Nice mill , there a bit beefier then the Bridgeport . Well made and I bet it'll work really well for you. The super spacers an added extra , worth having but other ways of doing what it can do almost makes the obsolete. But since you have it use it to its fullest potential. It can do lots of jobs as you will find out. There heavy as heck but that's good in my book. 
A good bye for what you paid I think . Good luck , like the pictures


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## jimbo762 (Jul 28, 2017)

Been quiet lately cuz i've been a little busy .  I did video most of the teardown but i didnt do it as a "video".  I did it as a memory recall device .  I'll try to get all the clips put together and cut out the long stretches of my overthinking simple stuff.  The more i dug into it, the more i was thankful i did it.  It was a disaster.  Fused bearings, all the 'grease' zerks had been greased.  The oil in the oiler, well, i dont what that stuff was.  One thing i learned that i wont soon forget, the table is heavy and it would be a good idea next time to not just grab it and yank it off the ways .  I did get that on video.  
Current status:  Below the turret is 95% completely rebuilt.  Just waiting on the last parts to dry on their second coat.  
On the knee, saddle, and table, all bearings have been replaced, all old oil and grease removed, all parts fully disassembled, scrubbed, primered (if a paintable surface) or hand scrubbed/wire wheeled depending on which surface it was.  Painted it with some rustoleum enamel, in safety blue (remember kids, safety third), thinned with naphtha and added some catalyst hardener that sped up drying time nicely.  
Owners manual is on the way as well as new way wipers.  One of the ones on this one was broke and the cost plus time to have these cast aluminum ones tig welded would have been a wash on just getting the new style ones.
I also ordered some bijur fittings which should be here tomorrow.


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## brino (Jul 28, 2017)

jimbo762 said:


> One thing i learned that i wont soon forget, the table is heavy and it would be a good idea next time to not just grab it and yank it off the ways . I did get that on video.



That'll be handy to show the hernia surgeon exactly what happened!



jimbo762 said:


> Current status: Below the turret is 95% completely rebuilt. Just waiting on the last parts to dry on their second coat.



Great progress, congratulations!
We would love to see photos/video when you can post 'em.

-brino


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## markba633csi (Jul 28, 2017)

Photos! Let's see that bad blue boy
Mark


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## jimbo762 (Jul 29, 2017)

Here is a few but it's still a work in progress as is obvious in the pics 
When i called Wells-Index, i asked about getting a gasket set for the head.  They said there is no such thing.  I assumed there was and that i needed one because of the oil leaks from the numerous places in the head.  I guess i'll find out what is causing those leaks soon enough.


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## azshadeguy (Jul 29, 2017)

You are going all out .
Want to do my 745 when your done?


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## jimbo762 (Jul 29, 2017)

LOL it's been a lot of work so far but nothing overly bad.  The pretty stuff was the least time consuming of it all and i had to do something to protect the metal so figured may as well make it look decent.  Brought all the parts in the house after degreasing them and just polished them while watching movies and stuff.  Took the knee and saddle to the car wash for a nice cleaning HAHA.  That saved a lot of time and was the best 8 bucks i've spent.  Should have done it with table too but really didnt feel like hossing it into the back of the truck.   I did kinda go overboard on the bijur pump.  Polished it and then inlayed the bijur logo with epoxy that i colored with the same enamel paint .  Pic is below.
I think overall the table half was the easier part of it all.  The head will be interesting but i guess i'll know for sure when i'm done.  On the plus side, i'll know the mill inside and out now.


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## Silverbullet (Jul 29, 2017)

Looking good , nice job so far.


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## jimbo762 (Jul 30, 2017)

This looks normal right? 
I had a feeling this head was going to be interesting.  Was really hoping i could get away with not completely tearing it down but that hope is now but a distant memory.  Luckily i picked up an ac unit at an auction yesterday so the garage is a little more bearable now.


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## brino (Jul 30, 2017)

Yuuuuuck!

Either it was filled with white lithium grease, or it got water in there..........and that green looks like copper corrosion. Is it a piece of brass(copper/zinc) or bronze(copper/tin)?

You are gonna need a few rags.......but from what I've seen it's in good hands.

-brino


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## azshadeguy (Jul 30, 2017)

jimbo762 said:


> Luckily i picked up an ac unit at an auction yesterday so the garage is a little more bearable now.


What auction did you go to? I picked both mills from auctions


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## jimbo762 (Jul 30, 2017)

azshadeguy said:


> What auction did you go to? I picked both mills from auctions


online, auctionnation.com


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## azshadeguy (Jul 30, 2017)

I bought a jackhammer from then last friday


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## jimbo762 (Jul 31, 2017)

Here is the video for the head teardown i did yesterday.  Part one anyway.  Part two is still processing.


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## jimbo762 (Jul 31, 2017)

and part 2


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## azshadeguy (Aug 5, 2017)

Nice videos. I need to get some new speakers so I can listen.


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## jimbo762 (Aug 7, 2017)

Thought i would give an update after this weekend.
Saturday night, i did a funtion test on the head and besides some required adjustments, the head rebuild was successful.  One minor brain fart, for some reason the quill power feed just would not work.  Keep in mind, this was at the end of 15 hours straight of final cleaning and reassembly all day saturday.  Now it was pushing 11pm Saturday night and I had thrown the top end pieces on just to make sure the head worked before final prep and painting of those parts because if i had fubar'ed the head, there wouldnt be much point of continuing.  I stand there stumped when i look and notice these really flat blue spots.  Ya, i forgot to remove the masking tape and install the quill power feed engagement lever .  That was my sign that the day had reached it's end.  If i kept going, i would end up spending all day Sunday fixing all the mistakes from the previous night.  So, i removed all the top end parts leaving the head exposed and called it a day.
Sunday was just as productive.  Quill feed engagement lever is installed.  Spent most of the day finalizing the remaining parts, everything above the head, as far as paint prep.  Took all the exposed nuts, bolts, and washers, wire brushed them, and gave them their first coat of matte black.  There was one piece i wasnt sure what to do with though.  The part that attaches to the head that holds the 'Hi/Off/Low' back gear lever is an aluminum casting.  After going back and forth on whether to pain it or strip it, i decided to just paint it.  At the end of the day, this IS a mill, not a show car but as i was cleaning it, the paint was just rubbing off.  Hmm, i guess it's trying to tell me something .  Well, who am i to argue.  I went ahead and stripped the paint.  I thought it would provide a nice looking contrast as polished aluminum, sandwiched between the rest of the blue parts.


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## jimbo762 (Aug 9, 2017)

It's starting to look like there is a mill in my garage


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## Bob Korves (Aug 9, 2017)

jimbo762 said:


> It's starting to look like there is a mill in my garage


Looks great!


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## jimbo762 (Aug 11, 2017)

Had a good brain fart last night.  
While i am waiting on the bearings for the motor and pulley to be delivered (please be delivered today) i needed to address the rear way wiper install issue.  The gib on the y axis protrudes over a half inch out the back of the saddle, preventing the way wiper installation, and also explaining why the cast aluminum way wiper was cracked at that spot.  I had been researching the why's and how's of that.  Did you guys know that a machine sold in 1968 may have some wear on the ways?  
Long story short, i had two good options, and few not so good options.  Im not going to even talk about the not so good options and look at the two good ones.  The first option is to buy a new gib from Wells-Index.  It has it's upside for sure but it also has a huge downside, at least for me.  That downside is that i have no way to fit it to the ways since they come oversize and really dont want to pay someone to do that when that money would be better spent on having the ways completely rescraped, assuming the rest of the machine is good to go, which at this point is still an unknown part of the big picture equation.  
So, i decided on option two.  Shim the existing gib.  I have feeler gauges and shim stock already.  The shim stock can be cut with a paper cutter and i found i could make some clean intricate cuts around oil ports and stop grooves with the dremel i already have.  So, option two is cheap and easy.  
That brings me to my brain fart.  I go out to pull the gib out and start measuring to fit a shim to the inside of it.  Problem is the gib wont come out.  It come almost all the way out, but then hard stops right at the end.  It's already late at night so im just going to blame it on a long day .  After a few choice words, i start disassembling the entire table.  45 minutes later, the table is apart and I have the saddle standing there laughing at me, it seems.  What happened was that i hadnt unscrewed the stop bolt enough to let the gib come out.  4 more turns on it and it would have come out like it was supposed to.  Live and learn.  If it wasnt for mistakes we wouldnt learn anything.
In the end, the job is done, the table has much less play in it, and i know i will never forget to unscrew the stop bolt far enough.   Hopefully those bearings get here today so i can start getting this thing adjusted and ready to run.


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## brino (Aug 11, 2017)

jimbo762 said:


> Did you guys know that a machine sold in 1968 may have some wear on the ways?



I myself am of similar vintage, and if those ways are anything like my knees, elbows, etc. then I believe it.



jimbo762 said:


> 4 more turns on it and it would have come out like it was supposed to.



Yep I've been in a similar situation, to me it means it's time to quit for the day!

Glad you had some progress!
-brino


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## azshadeguy (Oct 10, 2017)

jimbo762 said:


> Owners manual is on the way


Did you get your manual? I have one and it's more like a blueprint and is impossible to read
I finally got my 745 in the garage
Did you use a primer before the paint?
Did you use a bondo filler?


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## jimbo762 (Oct 10, 2017)

Ya, i got my manual.  It is hard to read but with some good lights and a 40x jeweler's loupe it did come in handy LOL.  When i remember, i plan on taking the few relevant layouts to a printer and have them blown up to a usable size or at least scanned and converted to vector so i can zoom all i want. 
For primer, i started with some stuff i had laying around but then switched over to the trusty rustoleum rust colored primer.  One coat of that followed with two coats of the enamel paint.  After the first coat of enamel on the mill base, i realized this would take forever waiting for drying and curing so i found a solution to that problem too.
I ended up using this formula for the enamel paint that allowed a 24 hour dry time.  It goes on thin, but thats ok.  All parts are by volume.

5 parts enamel paint - I used rustoleum
2 parts naphtha - For spraying, you will want to use acetone in place of naphtha.
0.3 parts catalyst hardener - I used the hardener they have at Tractor supply, Majic Catalyst Hardener. The guy I got this from was using Valspar Enamel Hardener.

I also found it best, by trial and error, to mix this in small batches as it doesnt last very long.  For best results, use it all in one session and mix a new batch for the next coat.


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## azshadeguy (Oct 13, 2017)

Jim in your first video at 19 min or so you are removing the bolt that rotates the head.
I see you are using a hammer and a screwdriver but what are you hitting?
Are you hitting the shoulder of the bolt? I am stuck at that point. Did you remove the nameplates before painting?
Mine looks a lot like yours with that green looking grease.
 thanks 
Paul


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## azshadeguy (Oct 13, 2017)

Okay I found the set screw that hold that bolt


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## jimbo762 (Oct 16, 2017)

LOL, had to bring THAT set screw up didnt ya?  I guess i should confess, my mental crystal ball/6th sense/whatever it is was correct when i was hesitant about throwing that set screw in the bucket'o'parts.  That was last time i ever saw it .  I could phrase it that i upgraded that set screw to a more modern steel alloy but not even sure if that is accurate.


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