# VFD on a Heavy 10?



## silverhawk (Aug 23, 2020)

Hello, folks!  I'm curious - I started in on the treadmill conversion for a South Bend Heavy 10 (10L).  It's not a stock "bench" that it is sitting on.  As I've gotten closer to the motor install on this project, I'm second-guessing myself.  Hence, the following questions are coming after I've mulled this whole thing over in my head.

First, what VFD options would you be recommending?  I know I'd need both a motor and a drive.  I struggle here because I'm cheap - I am purely a hobbiest, and I use these kinds of tools to rebuild things (old cars, lathes and tools, etc).  What do most people do?  What kind of horse power on the 10L lathes is suggested (not the original HP as modern stuff is rated differently)?


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## Ranger (Aug 23, 2020)

My 10L came with a 3/4 hp 3 phase motor, i changed that to a one hp VFD driven 3 phase motor, seems eneough power to me after two years use, bought the motor second hand on craigs list for 75.00$ and bought a VFD from ebay to suit, 220 -1 ph in 220 -3ph out, i love the variable speed controll it gives me,


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## Ulma Doctor (Aug 23, 2020)

i would opt for a 2 or 3 hp, 1750 rpm, 56 frame motor
an inverter rated motor would be optimum, but just about any 3 phase motor will work in the 30 to 90 Hz envelope without issues for short periods of time.
i have both expensive and cheap VFD's
personally i would go for a cheap one- i have had testing for over 5 years with a $100 chinese VFD that has performed flawlessly and gets the snot kicked out of it.
sure you can have the prestige of having a high end drive, but the savings would purchase much tooling or other necessities.

i have purchased and tested many low end VFD's, they are not as unreliable, poorly made, lacking esoteric features, or undeseriable as some may lead you to believe


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## silverhawk (Aug 23, 2020)

Ranger said:


> My 10L came with a 3/4 hp 3 phase motor, i changed that to a one hp VFD driven 3 phase motor, seems eneough power to me after two years use, bought the motor second hand on craigs list for 75.00$ and bought a VFD from ebay to suit, 220 -1 ph in 220 -3ph out, i love the variable speed controll it gives me,


Ranger, what led you to the choices you made? Are there regrets?





Ulma Doctor said:


> i would opt for a 2 or 3 hp, 1750 rpm, 56 frame motor
> an inverter rated motor would be optimum, but just about any 3 phase motor will work in the 30 to 90 Hz envelope without issues for short periods of time.
> i have both expensive and cheap VFD's
> personally i would go for a cheap one- i have had testing for over 5 years with a $100 chinese VFD that has performed flawlessly and gets the snot kicked out of it.
> ...


That should give me plenty. I don't have 3 phase at the house here. I've seen a lot of questions about 220 v 110, but which would you recommend, and why?

joe


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## Ulma Doctor (Aug 23, 2020)

silverhawk said:


> That should give me plenty. I don't have 3 phase at the house here. I've seen a lot of questions about 220 v 110, but which would you recommend, and why?
> joe


there are a few single phase 220v to 3 phase VFD's.
i use them for the same purpose of going from single to 3 phase.

i have used really cheap ones like this....









						3-phase 8A 1.5KW 220V Variable Frequency Drive Inverter VFD Single To 3 Phase  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 3-phase 8A 1.5KW 220V Variable Frequency Drive Inverter VFD Single To 3 Phase at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




and this one has proven to do it's job consistently....









						AC220V 2.2KW Single To 3 Phase Motor Variable Frequency Drive Inverter  NEW  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for AC220V 2.2KW Single To 3 Phase Motor Variable Frequency Drive Inverter  NEW at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				





both of these i would recommend on the merits of low cost and ease of installation, high survive ability.
programming is a little more challenging with chinglish manuals , but reasonably intelligent folks can overcome that hurdle without difficulty
DCM function allows for start/stop/e-stop function as well as jogging, if desired
lots of good things for low cost.

my philosophy, is that if something functions well to high expectations, and gets out the door for low price
you got a win/win.


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## Ranger (Aug 23, 2020)

I have only seen 110v 1ph to 240v 3ph vfd's up to 1 hp then you need to go to 220v 1ph to 240v 3 ph vfd, i have no regrets and habe never found my 1 hp to be lacking, its only a 10" lathe, my 13" has 2 hp no vfd, gear head so I cant compare more. but i also have cheap vfd's running my bench grinder, drill press, bandsaw, etc. less than 100.00 on ebay for teco vfd to drive a one horse motor, and tou run a 1700 rpm motor up to 3400 rpm if tthe1motor bearings will take it, as the vfd lets you control the cycles per second up to 120 from 0 so speed control is awesome and torque is good through that range compared to a dc motor.


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## silverchips (Aug 24, 2020)

silverhawk said:


> Hello, folks!  I'm curious - I started in on the treadmill conversion for a South Bend Heavy 10 (10L).  It's not a stock "bench" that it is sitting on.
> 
> First, what VFD options would you be recommending?



Silverhawk,

In your OP you stated you're doing a treadmill conversion, if that's so then you don't want a VFD but instead a DC motor speed controller; KB electronics makes a good one or if handy with electronics you can use the the one off the treadmill. Almost all treadmills come with a DC motor.
VFD's are for AC motors and don't work on DC motors. The orig. RPM motor for that lathe is 1725 RPM and correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the heavy 10" original motor was a 3/4 HP motor.

Quite a few on here have used treadmill motors and DC controllers on lathes, so you if you do your research or reach out to those members I'm fairly sure you'll get all the help you need.

Also, what power do you have close by the lathe that you can use? 120V or 220v? That could help decide which HP you choose without having to get electrical work done on the shop. If you go the AC route, a 3/4-1hp 3ph motor and a .75kw rated VFD would suffice. Teco makes a good VFD with usually a competitive price and you can find good customer service here in the US but they're cheaper asian ones that work well but with terrible documentation which is important to have for VFD to help you program it. For that 3/4-1hp rating, you could get away only using single phase 120v. If you go above 1hp motor, then you'll need to step up to 220v. for the VFD  You definitely want to use a 1725 rpm motor is your going the VFD/AC route for best performance, they can go above 60 herz (120hz) with no problem if you want to speed things up. Finding a sealed enclosure 1140 RPM 3ph motor is even better.
Treadmill motors have crazy high rated rpm's to show off a high HP rating but you'll slow it down considerably with the speed controller and pulley ratio's and should get enough torque with a proper "PWM" DC controller that has adjustable torque settings. There's lots of info about this but DC setups are a little more complicated than a VFD/AC set up. You can run almost all treadmill motors on 120v as you'll be slowing it down and rarely do you see one rated above 18amps. Probably the most is 12amps@90v


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## 4ssss (Aug 24, 2020)

These guys sell used VFD's.  You can't beat the price and they are guaranteed.









						Radwell International MRO, Automation Supply & Repair
					

From Auxiliary Contactors to Z-Terminals Radwell is here to supply you with all your plant floor needs




					www.radwell.com


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## silverhawk (Aug 24, 2020)

I will have to check out those guys. 

I started the treadmill conversion on my old junior, but that fizzled out. I used a Baldor BC141 controller, but it had so little torque on a 1 1/2 HP treadmill motor on that junior that I had to change it with a straight A/C motor to run it. The treadmill motor needed an MC2100 controller, which I have somewhere and can't find. But my brain has issues with the pulley on that motor because it has a built in fly wheel, and it is a serpentine style belt. The issues keep piling up. 

This is why I am scrapping that course of action and looking at doing VFD. I gotta cut my losses, and I want to do it right. 

joe


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## silverchips (Aug 24, 2020)

silverhawk said:


> I will have to check out those guys.
> 
> I started the treadmill conversion on my old junior, but that fizzled out. I used a Baldor BC141 controller, but it had so little torque on a 1 1/2 HP treadmill motor on that junior that I had to change it with a straight A/C motor to run it. The treadmill motor needed an MC2100 controller, which I have somewhere and can't find. But my brain has issues with the pulley on that motor because it has a built in fly wheel, and it is a serpentine style belt. The issues keep piling up.
> 
> ...



I totally have gone down the same path myself. With treadmill motors, the issues or hurdles to conquer can really pile up, absorbing time and extra expenses to make it work making it less cost effective than initially thought after it's all said and done, 

VFD can be the sweeter way to go at similar costs and much less time working on it and machine down time.

If looking for a VFD, try to find a Vector VFD (sensorless) for better torque at slower speeds. Check out the new Teco L510 101 VFD ($135-ish), if your wanting to use a 1hp or less. Its a pretty low cost for the features and good customer support. Of course there's cheaper used ones and ones from overseas.


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## silverhawk (Aug 25, 2020)

silverchips said:


> I totally have gone down the same path myself. With treadmill motors, the issues or hurdles to conquer can really pile up, absorbing time and extra expenses to make it work making it less cost effective than initially thought after it's all said and done,
> 
> VFD can be the sweeter way to go at similar costs and much less time working on it and machine down time.
> 
> If looking for a VFD, try to find a Vector VFD (sensorless) for better torque at slower speeds. Check out the new Teco L510 101 VFD ($135-ish), if your wanting to use a 1hp or less. Its a pretty low cost for the features and good customer support. Of course there's cheaper used ones and ones from overseas.


After watching some "Ave" videos on youtube about Chinesium welders, I am not sure about anything electrical from China. That said, I don't think I have much of a choice any more unless I go used. 

joe


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## silverchips (Aug 26, 2020)

silverhawk said:


> After watching some "Ave" videos on youtube about Chinesium welders, I am not sure about anything electrical from China. That said, I don't think I have much of a choice any more unless I go used.
> 
> joe



Don't be too afraid to go used. 

I've bought used Teco-Westinghouse FM50's for 1HP for around $65-75 delivered with good results. Going above 1hp (.75kw) can get a lot pricier but keep your eye's peeled and act fast, they come up but go fast. Be careful to keep any eye out on the input voltage, a large amount of used ones have a 3 phase input but not stated in description. Only way to tell is see the model # in photo's.

I'm sure a ton of others here on H-M can give you good feedback on which used ones or asian ones have been holding up well for the price.


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## Ulma Doctor (Aug 26, 2020)

silverhawk said:


> After watching some "Ave" videos on youtube about Chinesium welders, I am not sure about anything electrical from China. That said, I don't think I have much of a choice any more unless I go used.
> 
> joe


don't let AVE's few minute rant negate the usefulness of cheap chinese VFD's
i had similar thought until i was proven wrong by 5 years of testing


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## silverchips (Aug 26, 2020)

Ulma Doctor said:


> don't let AVE's few minute rant negate the usefulness of cheap chinese VFD's
> i had similar thought until i was proven wrong by 5 years of testing




I agree

I think doing some more homework and hearing from others who have lots of experience with asian VFD's and hear what they have to say. On Aliexpress, VFD's have a real high amount of good reviews. Albeit, a lot of them are from Russia.

One possible issue for you is that the asian VFD's may not easily be found with 110v (input) as they use to be, mostly only finding 220v input but the price's are good; approx $65-$85 delivered that can run several HP.


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## Ulma Doctor (Aug 26, 2020)

i bought a 110v to 220v 3 phase, and ran it for a couple months on my 1 hp surface grinder at the shop for my day job before i extended my 3 phase service to the other side of my shop.

i was surprised how well it worked as well.
the testing has not been substantiated to anywhere near the same extent, but it didn't blow up in 6 months of weekly use.

i hope others have tested the same types of VFD's and share their horror or happy tales of the encounters as a wider scope.
for all i know i'm luckier than the average bear- but i doubt that.


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 10, 2020)

I did a thread on a restore of my southbend lathe and I used a 110v single phase to 220 3 phase vfd on it with the original 3/4hp motor and it works great. I'm not sure where it is in the thread but you might find some of the other stuff interesting while looking for it.








						Heavy 10 project
					

This is my first post other than an introduction. I have been searching for a used lathe to use for my tool making and who knows what else. I was hoping to find a nice workable logan and was looking for a few months. I work as a truck driver for a roll forming co. in the detroit area, one day on...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## silverchips (Sep 10, 2020)

woodtickgreg said:


> I did a thread on a restore of my southbend lathe and I used a 110v single phase to 220 3 phase vfd on it with the original 3/4hp motor and it works great. I'm not sure where it is in the thread but you might find some of the other stuff interesting while looking for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



VFD talk starts around page 7 till page 9

EDIT: Very nice job on the restore, you did it very well. Cheers


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