# Tap and die recommendations?



## DavidR8 (Nov 11, 2019)

Hi all, as I slowly deplete my retirement fund I'm in the market for a set of taps and dies. I can see some tool building in my future so will need to tap some holes.

I'm thinking these sizes are probably reasonable to start?
1/4"-20
1/4"-28
5/16"-18
5/16"-24
3/8"-16
3/8"-24
7/16"-14
7/16"-20
1/2"-13
1/2"-20

Any advice on sizes and brands?


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## Aaron_W (Nov 11, 2019)

I just bought a DeWalt set from Home Depot, it had everything needed, taps, dies, drills, tap /die handles for 6-32 to 1/4". I've used it a few times, no complaints. I think it was about $20. They make a similar set for larger sizes but it also costs a lot more.

The set I have is smaller than you mention, but if you are working with a mini-lathe I suspect you will be doing a lot more at the 3/16" and 1/4" size than 1/2". Don't forget you can turn threads with the lathe, that might be more cost effective on larger sizes than a tap & die.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 11, 2019)

Thanks Aaron, that's solid advice. I have to got to HD tomorrow. I'll scout around.


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## mikey (Nov 11, 2019)

If I was going to buy a tap and die set for the hobby shop, I would spring for one with an adjustable round die set. This kind of die, aka split button dies, allow you to adjust the fit of the thread for potentially tighter tolerances. While it would be nice to own a HSS set, Sears used to sell a carbon steel set with a chromium coating (Kromedge) that extended the life of these tools for a fair price. They also sold these sets in HSS but I haven't seen an adjustable set in years. Here is one that is up for bids and it might be worth going for it just to have the dies, although the taps look to be in fair shape, too. Irwin Hanson also makes a nice HSS set at a higher cost than their carbon steel sets if you're interested. That Hanson set retails for over $500 usually; bet he would take $225.

The nice thing about button dies is that it is simple to make a tailstock die holder to fit them. 

The big box sets are mostly made in China. For myself, I would avoid them.


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## Bi11Hudson (Nov 11, 2019)

Over the years I have accumulated a number of "sets" as well as some more esoteric sizes that were specific to instrument jobs, some fractional, some metric. They *all *are "HSS, high speed steel", I learned early on that carbon steel doesn't hold up well in heavy duty, repetitive use. 

Some are (old) name brand U S made, some are chinese. They all work well enough for the occasional uses I have now. I couldn't comment on modern steel or chineseum used in repetitive use. Most of my work these days is on my models and contraptions. Brass or aluminium mostly, not much steel.

The only thing I can say for sure is to stay away from carbon steel sets if you are working anything tougher than brass. Take a chunk of 2X4 and drill a row of holes on the edge. Whenever possible, spend the money for good quality, U S made HSS individual taps as they are needed. It will pay off in the long run. Cost more, a lot more, but  it's spread out over time so it isn't _that_ painful. Taps are not too bad, it's the dies that cause my gut to clench up. And yes, the *adjustable dies are worth the extra cost*.

Further, I would look at smaller sizes, Nrs 12 ,10, 8, 6, as well. And/or metric equivs. Nr 6-32 and 8-32 are very common in electrical fittings. I have down to Nr 3/0, 000-120, but those are specific to my models and have very little real world use beyond optics. There is little use for stuff larger than 1/2", rare except for pipe sizes. 3/8, 1/2, and 3/4 pipe sizes are quite handy for electrical and plumbing.

One last shot: The world is going metric, fast. So, unless you are working on something old or specificly fractional (like old cars or fence fittings) I would try to build a set of metric sizes first.

Bill Hudson

.​


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## mmcmdl (Nov 11, 2019)

Are you looking for good taps ?


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## Boswell (Nov 11, 2019)

Not sure if this holds true in Canada, but in the the US and with the beauty of next day shipping, I just buy what I have a specific need for. Why pay for Taps/Dies in sizes that you might never use.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 11, 2019)

mmcmdl said:


> Are you looking for good taps ?



Yes I am. I’m not a big fan of inexpensive hand tools. 


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## NCjeeper (Nov 11, 2019)

I second a nice set of Hanson's.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 11, 2019)

DavidR8 said:


> Yes I am. I’m not a big fan of inexpensive hand tools.



Me either .  Keep your eyes open on the lower listings .


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## francist (Nov 11, 2019)

If you're looking for what I would call a maintenance set, the one you grab when you want to fix the handle on the lawnmower, Canadian Tire's hundred-and-whatever size when it's on sale is decent enough. The die stock will be the weak point.

If you want to enjoy tapping holes in your tool block that you just made, go down to Western Equipment or Raider Hansen and buy them as you need them. The difference is palpable, the cost is not as much as you might think, and they will get you through a bunch of holes if you look after them. KBC in Vancouver also sells decent ones as their house brand, so most of the time I'll order from them.

I think the worst part of any of the department store / big box store assortments these days are the lousy tap wrenches and die stocks. I bought several Groz ones for work a few years ago thinking they might be better but they were garbage too. I don't know why that is, it's such a vital part of the whole process and getting a successful thread. Keep an eye out for some older ones at the pawn shops and scoop them if you can. Night and day for holding the tools.

-frank


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## ericc (Nov 11, 2019)

I would not recommend anything from Lowe's or Home Depot.  Even though the set I bought from Lowes said Made in USA, it was worse than China made taps from Fastenal.  See if you can find a vintage set someplace.  I have had good luck with those.


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## CluelessNewB (Nov 11, 2019)

I have a bunch of older Hanson taps that are fine but Hanson has been acquired by Irwin which is part of the Black and Decker import empire.  My most recent Hanson purchase was very disappointing, no better than others from China.  The last HSS tap I purchased from McMaster Carr was made by Greenfield and was well made.


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## Mitch Alsup (Nov 11, 2019)

I built 2 entire telescopes using only 4-40 and 1/4-20 taps and dies.


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## mikey (Nov 11, 2019)

I'm all for HSS taps and dies; most of mine are. BUT truth be told, carbon steel taps and dies work. I have a Sears Kromedge metric set of carbon steel taps and dies that I bought 35 years ago; they work great and I have yet to break one. I also have several sets of Hanson taps and dies that work fine for general work; they cut as well as my HSS taps do if I'm honest. 

In my opinion, the single biggest determinant of how well one of these tools work is the user. If you know how to size a hole properly then the chances of breaking a tap or ruining a thread are minimized.


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## T Bredehoft (Nov 11, 2019)

Unless you have no taps/dies, buy only what you need. Do Not scrimp, one tap/dies set high dollar will not break the bank, a whole set will. Get them one at a time as needed. If you buy a set, you will find some you never use. Oh yes, if you can, opt for Spiral point taps, they push the chips out the entry hole.


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## pacifica (Nov 11, 2019)

Higher quality taps list the thread limits(H1, H3, H6 ,etc.). I would buy the specific size you need  in a spiral flute , a spiral point tap(through holes), then decide on taper, bottoming or plug(or all three).MSC offers info and more styles than you can imagine.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 11, 2019)

Thanks all!
This forum is an amazing source of knowledge!


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## C-Bag (Nov 11, 2019)

I was lucky in the 70's to get a used BluePoint tap and die set and a Craftsman Kromedege metric tap and die set for Christmas and they have both served me well. The one tap I broke 3/8" I replaced with a Hanson and it is nowhere near the quality. I also picked up a Greenfield no7 screw plate tap and die set for $50 in a garage sale. So before you go buying bargain stuff start checking garage sales and  Craigslist for old quality tap and die sets. You'll be $$ ahead in the long run.

Another good investment is to either make or buy a tap machine. On my last project I had 40 1/4" 20 to do and what a difference! Not a single botched thread or broken tap.


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## ttabbal (Nov 11, 2019)

For taps, I've been using YG-1 spiral flute taps. Really good quality and the flutes pull the chips out so you don't have break the chip, and they work great for power tapping. Not cheap, but worth it. 

I don't own any good dies. Just random die shaped scrap in a harbor freight die set box. I should start getting some though.


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## savarin (Nov 11, 2019)

dont forget left hand versions, its surprising how often you need one of these.
I can only advise on metrics so I go 2,3,4,5,6,8,10,12 in both standard and fine.
with left hand in 4 6 8 and 12.
All dies are split with left hand also in 4 6 8 and 12.
I did purchase as required rather than a set and added spiral point in 4,5,6,8.


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## ezduzit (Nov 11, 2019)

Buy a complete set of HSS. Avoid Asian imports.  Look for adjustable, round dies.


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## C-Bag (Nov 11, 2019)

savarin said:


> dont forget left hand versions, its surprising how often you need one of these.
> I can only advise on metrics so I go 2,3,4,5,6,8,10,12 in both standard and fine.
> with left hand in 4 6 8 and 12.
> All dies are split with left hand also in 4 6 8 and 12.
> I did purchase as required rather than a set and added spiral point in 4,5,6,8.


That's interesting you mention LH. Am I the only one on here who's never done a LH thread?

Were you doing a lot of LH on your telescope and mega binoculars?


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## ezduzit (Nov 12, 2019)

Never needed a LH tap. But had a special job for Larry Elison's 288' yacht, Asahi, which required a large LH metric die, which I purchased to get the job done.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 12, 2019)

ezduzit said:


> Never needed a LH tap. But had a special job for Larry Elison's 288' yacht, Asahi, which required a large LH metric die, which I purchased to get the job done.



Wait. What? Larry Ellison’s yacht?
How did that job come about?


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## ezduzit (Nov 12, 2019)

I work on yachts. When Asahi visited Marina del Rey they needed some unobtainable replacement zincs for their European refrigeration. I fixed them up right away. Ordered a LH M12 x 1.75mm die.


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## savarin (Nov 12, 2019)

Yep, quite a few left handers and also for lead screws for the cross slides and vertical slides and for some turnbuckles I had to make.


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## ELHEAD (Nov 12, 2019)

I buy taps as needed along with 2 properly sized drill bits, from a local machinery supply house. Never been disappointed.


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## C-Bag (Nov 12, 2019)

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks all!
> This forum is an amazing source of knowledge!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just for giggles I looked on our local CL and then down to LA and up to SF for tap and die. Then on DavidR8's local CL. It's quite a contrast. Even in our little podunk area there is over 800 ads in tools. In LA 3,000! The sets and quality was the best in LA especially old machinist boxes full of tools. But there were several sets exactly like my old sets of Craftsman and BluePoint and especially ACE for around $80. Decent deals IMHO. 

Not until this thread did I notice that all those boxes had great sets of measuring tools etc but never sets of tap and die or drill bits. Is this because the typical machinist box is 1/10th size of a mechanic box or? Personally it would drive me crazy digging through a pile of mixed taps and drill bits but I guess you get used to what you are used to.

When I looked around Victoria it's a different story with way less ads and mostly low end sets but crazily enough somebody selling a hand tapper for $100!


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## RJSakowski (Nov 12, 2019)

T Bredehoft said:


> ................. Oh yes, if you can, opt for Spiral point taps, they push the chips out the entry hole.


Tom, I think you meant to say exit hole. The are normally used for though hole tapping. I like to use the spiral point taps but if tapping a blind hole, there has to be enough room below the tap to clear the chips.  

I prefer to buy taps in sets of three; taper, plug, and bottoming.  I start with the taper tap and on blind holes finish with the bottoming tap if bottom clearance is an issue.  If I were to buy only a single tap of as given size, it would be a plug tap.


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## CluelessNewB (Nov 12, 2019)

ezduzit said:


> ... they needed some unobtainable replacement zincs for their European refrigeration. I fixed them up right away. Ordered a LH M12 x 1.75mm die.



Me... trying to fathom why they used left hand threads for zincs....


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## mmcmdl (Nov 12, 2019)

I have a few taps and dies lying around , any kind you could dream up . Once you know what you're looking for or need , give me a shout out . I have sets , boxes , singles that I don't have a need for .  I wouldn't go draining the retirement account either , buy what you need as needed !


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## francist (Nov 12, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> When I looked around Victoria it's a different story with way less ads and mostly low end sets but crazily enough somebody selling a hand tapper for $100!



Yup, that's typical around here. We are on an island (large island, mind you) that has not had substantial industry levels since the early part of the century. The last really big ship engineering went away in the 1970's. We still have HMC Dockyard and some aircraft manufacturing on a small scale, but otherwise not much. No mills anymore either, at least not on the south end of the island.

I did spot two used Greenfield sets yesterday about an hour and half away, but they were both pretty rusted up. The guy still wanted $75 per set.

-frank


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## DavidR8 (Nov 12, 2019)

As @francist said we live in an industrial no-mans-land. 

Slight diversion: what is the significance of the machines lines on these seemingly identical taps?







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## mmcmdl (Nov 12, 2019)

DavidR8 said:


> Slight diversion: what is the significance of the machines lines on these seemingly identical taps?



Look at the leading threads on the taps .  Notice the difference ?

Just another idea for someone starting out . Get yourself one of these and fill as necessary .


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## ezduzit (Nov 12, 2019)

CluelessNewB said:


> Me... trying to fathom why they used left hand threads for zincs....



Presumably so that when you unscrew the zinc "carrier" the zinc does not fall off and plug up the cooling passage; my guess.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 12, 2019)

@mmcmdl I'm going to say from left to right taper, plug and bottoming.


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## BGHansen (Nov 12, 2019)

I bought a set of Harbor Freight Tungsten steel taps/dies that go from 1/4" - 1" in NC/NF for around $100 in around 1984.  They actually have worked pretty well though none have been heavily used.  Most of my work has been with aluminum and brass, occasional CRS, so no toughies like stainless.

I also have a couple of sets of older Hanson 6-32 - 1/2" in NC/NF.  Lots of loose taps, some Interstate (MSC), mostly Union Greenfield.  

I use taps until they get dull and throw them away.  My like sizes are housed in plastic bins, currently used tap is in a plastic bag.  When it seems to take more effort than I'd like, I switch to a new one.  If the effort is the same, I reevaluate the tap drilled hole and carefully go with the older tap.  If the new tap is cutting better, the old one hits the trash and the new one "graduates" to the plastic bag.

I can pretty much guarantee if you buy a set of 6-32 - 1/2" in NC/NF you won't use them all.  I've tapped 2-56, 4-40, 6-32, 8-32, 10-24, 10-32, 1/4"-20, 1/4"-28 (once), 5/16"-18, 3/8"-16, 1/2"-20 and 1/2"-13.  Maybe a 5/8" course thread once.  A 7/8" coarse thread once.  

If your projects will be limited to just a few sizes, might be cheaper to buy premium taps in just those sizes instead of a so-so set of many sizes.

Bruce


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## NCjeeper (Nov 12, 2019)

CluelessNewB said:


> but Hanson has been acquired by Irwin which is part of the Black and Decker import empire.  My most recent Hanson purchase was very disappointing, no better than others from China.


Did not know that. Bummer.


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## C-Bag (Nov 12, 2019)

In a real sense we are in an industrial no man's land here too. The main industry is tourism and that doesn't generate real goods. I guess the trick is to find guys retiring or their estate sales. There has been a couple of times where an old machine shop went out of biz or retired here with all their stock and sold it all piecemeal on CL. I'd think you'd want to see what Dave/mmcmdl can do DavidR8. 

Dave reminds me of a guy who used to work at Lockheed in the 50/60's and had friends on the line and guys would give him deals on their tools when they quit or retired. When I graduated aircraft school in '82 he sold me enough stuff to build a plane for $100. There was all kinda crazy stuff like 3 ARO 1/4" pneumatic drills that were brand new wrapped in newspaper from early 50's. A pneumatic edge rivet squeeze, bucks, cleco's, rivet gun etc... $1,000 worth of stuff he picked over the years.


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## Mitch Alsup (Nov 12, 2019)

DavidR8 said:


> As @francist said we live in an industrial no-mans-land.
> 
> Slight diversion: what is the significance of the machines lines on these seemingly identical taps?
> 
> ...



You have a taper tap, a std tap, and a bottoming tap.
The lines are to allow you to chose the tap you want easier.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 12, 2019)

Apprentices were required to purchase our tools back in the 70s . I had absolutely no issue buying any kind of tooling if it saved me time back when my shop was up and running . I looked at it as a write off . Fast forward 25 years , my machining duties are very limited at work and nearly none at home . I'll always keep a Bridgeport and some kind of lathe around and some basic tooling , but I will say at this point I'm still fully tooled up . 

My current position is more of a mechanical position these days . I still use the machines for 1 offs and repairing dies , but really not making parts much any longer . All my precision tools sit un-used .


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## projectnut (Nov 12, 2019)

As a point of reference the 2 most common styles of taps are the spiral flute and the spiral point.  

The spiral flute style is used most commonly in blind holes because the flute configuration forces the chips back out the entrance hole.  This allows the tap to go to the bottom of the hole without packing chips in the bottom.

The spiral point or "gun tap" is most commonly used for through holes.   The point configuration forces the chips out the bottom of the hole allowing the tap to go freely through the material without loading the flutes.

Personally most of my tapping is done by machine.  It's my opinion that the best taps for general use are the HSS spiral point style.  While the spiral flute style does work equally well when new, the smaller web is a concern for breakage as they wear. 

I realize there are a number of used tap and die sets available on both Craigslist and eBay.  The prices are tempting, especially when compared to the cost of new HSS sets.  However this is one tool I wouldn't buy used without close personal inspection.  Most sellers are cleaning out Grampa's shop and have no idea the condition of the tooling they are selling.  It's not uncommon for taps and dies to get dull and eventually chipped over time.  Unless the seller does an extremely close inspection it's very likely they will not notice defects that will cause problems.  Grampa may have saved the old damaged taps and dies for an emergency, or to clean up existing threads.  I often save damaged taps and dies to use as thread chasers.  While they may not cut  a new thread, they can often be used for cleaning and repairing existing threads.

Most of my taps & dies are Triumph, Greenfield, (WIDA), and Beloit Regal.  They are all HSS, and primarily sold to the industrial/commercial sector.  They are not the cheapest on the market, but they are quality tools that should last many years in a hobby environment.  At work our primary brand was Triumph for drills, taps, and dies.  Since then they have been bought out by Minnesota Twist Drill.

There was a discussion about tap & die longevity on the Practical Machinist bulletin board last year.  One of the commercial shops was lamenting the poor performance and longevity of less expensive (poorer quality) taps.  They eventually changed vendors and started purchasing WIDA, OSG and similar quality.  The end result was that the Quality brands were able to produce over 3 times as many quality threaded holes and shafts ( less than 300 with poorer quality taps & dies as opposed to over 1000 with higher quality tooling) as the  less expensive (poorer quality) brands

As a confession I do own a set of Hanson "High Carbon" dies.  They were purchased a couple years ago for field work on some construction equipment.  I was tired of dropping and loosing expensive dies in the mud and crud.  These dies are only used where loss or breakage is a distinct possibility.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 12, 2019)

You sure can't go wrong with OSGs . Expensive but well worth the $$$ .


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## Aaron_W (Nov 12, 2019)

So remember in your first couple posts where people said don't worry too much about the cost of the lathe because you will spend much more on tooling?

Pretty much everything is going to work like this, you can pick up a cheap set or individual what evers, (drill bits, taps, reamers, end mills, boring bars) you name it,  or you buy very good quality at a higher, often much, much  higher price. Taking a quick look at just one vendor HSS taps cost 4-5x as much as plain carbon steel from the same manufacturer. What materials you are going to be working with, and how much work you have for an item will play a huge part in what is acceptable.

When you are just getting started out you are going to want a lot of things because you are just starting out and you basically need everything. Where you choose to go cheap, and where you go all in really depends on A your budget, and B what you are going to be doing. If you expect a lot of work for your taps and dies, then go for a good set. If it is mostly just to have for an occasional project then maybe a place to save some money to put into tooling that will get a lot more use.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 12, 2019)

buy what you need as you need them and get a spiral point and spiral flute version. Both are useful - the spiral point is more robust (super important for 6-32 taps), but the spiral flute is really useful for blind holes. I just buy bottoming taps as I almost always start the tap in the mill/ drill press/ lathe.

I use dies much less frequently, so I've been getting by with an old HF set plus whatever USA dies I find at garage sales. If there's a thread you'll do alot of, spending the extra on an adjustable HSS die would be worth it. If it's just an occasional one off, a larger but cheaper set would be more useful.


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## projectnut (Nov 12, 2019)

Aaron_W said:


> So remember in your first couple posts where people said don't worry too much about the cost of the lathe because you will spend much more on tooling?
> 
> Pretty much everything is going to work like this, you can pick up a cheap set or individual what evers, (drill bits, taps, reamers, end mills, boring bars) you name it,  *or you buy very good quality at a higher, often much, much  higher price*. Taking a quick look at just one vendor HSS taps cost 4-5x as much as plain carbon steel from the same manufacturer. What materials you are going to be working with, and how much work you have for an item will play a huge part in what is acceptable.
> 
> When you are just getting started out you are going to want a lot of things because you are just starting out and you basically need everything. Where you choose to go cheap, and where you go all in really depends on A your budget, and B what you are going to be doing. If you expect a lot of work for your taps and dies, then go for a good set. If it is mostly just to have for an occasional project then maybe a place to save some money to put into tooling that will get a lot more use.



Many years back I did buy a couple "sets" of taps & dies".  Those were in the days that most of my work was repairing existing machinery, not fabricating new.  When I got into the fabrication business I purchased the most common sizes I needed by the box.  Often times they were inexpensive enough, or there were incentives sufficient to warranty purchasing several boxes of the same size.

When I retired I had a more than adequate selection of taps and dies to last several years.  Those "several years" have long passed and the supply was running thin.  Last year I was "forced" to replenish several sizes.  Needless to say I was suffering from "sticker shock".  Spiral point Taps I'd been buying for a dollar or less per unit were now going for over $7.00 a copy.  The spiral flute types I was buying for around $2.50 a copy are now at least $10.00 per copy, and more depending on the coating.  That's when I started looking at the "per hole" cost.  

Using the information supplied by the discussion I referred to earlier I have come to the conclusion that depending on the expected usage of the tap, in many cases it's actually less expensive to purchase the higher quality, more expensive tap.  That is to say If I intend to use the tap a limited number of times (for instance a 9/16-18 left hand thread) I will purchase a carbon steel tap.  If the tap is intended to be used on a regular basis, and thread more than 300 holes (3/8-16 right hand thread) a high quality HSS tap can be justified.

Another thing to mention is that all taps are not created equal as far as thread cutting diameter is concerned.  Taps are ground to a specific tolerance, most commonly from H1 to H7.  The H1 tap is .0005" larger than the basic thread of the mating fastener.  Each number larger increases the clearance by another .0005".  Following that logic the H6 thread is .003" larger than the mating fastener.   The most commonly used size for general fasteners is H3.


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## T Bredehoft (Nov 12, 2019)

RJSakowski said:


> Tom, I think you meant to say exit hole.



I meant the hole the tap had entered.  Also what I meant was Spiral* FLUTE* taps, Not Spiral _*POINT*_ taps. Must'a been a dumb attack.


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## rzw0wr (Nov 12, 2019)

My understanding is that solid dies are for thread chasing. Not good for threading.

I always use an adjustable die. in an adjustable handle.

Taps... Buy what you need and get the good stuff.
HSS is good.

Not much will tick you off more that a dull tap or die.

I usually only buy small tap and dies.
More taps than dies.

I can external thread OK but don't like internal threading.

Drill and tap a hole and use it for the sample.

Dale


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## savarin (Nov 12, 2019)

One extra thing I've found using spiral point taps by hand is that they seem to draw themselves into the hole straighter.
Maybe its me but that seems to be the case when I use them.


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## turnitupper (Nov 12, 2019)

DavidR8 said:


> As @francist said we live in an industrial no-mans-land.
> 
> Slight diversion: what is the significance of the machines lines on these seemingly identical taps?
> 
> ...


Serial taps.
John


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 12, 2019)

rzw0wr said:


> My understanding is that solid dies are for thread chasing. Not good for threading.



I've heard that before but haven't found it to be especially true. You don't get to adjust for fit with solid dies for sure, but all else being equal I've found they cut the same. Getting the die started straight is the biggest issue I've ever had, wether with solid or split dies. Making a tailstock die holder made a HUGE difference!


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## DavidR8 (Nov 12, 2019)

turnitupper said:


> Serial taps.
> John



This makes sense to me. 
Three passes to a fully tapped blind hole?
A through hole can be done with a single tap right?


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## turnitupper (Nov 13, 2019)

DavidR8 said:


> This makes sense to me.
> Three passes to a fully tapped blind hole?
> A through hole can be done with a single tap right?
> 
> ...


You can use them that way but they are usually used in hard metals.
Also handy if you have single pointed a thread too small  
John.


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## Chips O'Toole (Nov 13, 2019)

I bought a set of HSS taps and dies from Travers, and it has been extremely handy. People criticize import quality, of course, but an okay tap that's there when you need it is better than a perfect tap a thousand miles away.

None in the Travers set has failed me. Seems to work just like the American stuff.


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## C-Bag (Nov 13, 2019)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> I've heard that before but haven't found it to be especially true. You don't get to adjust for fit with solid dies for sure, but all else being equal I've found they cut the same. Getting the die started straight is the biggest issue I've ever had, wether with solid or split dies. Making a tailstock die holder made a HUGE difference!


The die handles with adjustable guides are the only way to fly. I get a pretty straight start most times depending on the type of metal. But nothing beats threading on a lathe for dead true threads.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 13, 2019)

Thanks @C-Bag 
I see folks using tap handles in conjunction with some sort of spring loaded tooling in the tailstock.
Looks like a good project


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## Aaron_W (Nov 13, 2019)

A real simple but effective way that doesn't require any special tools, is simply chuck up the part to be threaded with a die, then use a tail stock drill chuck to help hold the die straight. Rotate the chuck by hand, and keep a light pressure on the tail stock until it starts threading. Once started, then turning the chuck will just pull the die forward. None of this is under power, all hand turning.

Not my creation, I got the idea from a Mr Pete video on using taps and dies.





The finished part




The original idea

Mr Pete threading with a die #3


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## C-Bag (Nov 13, 2019)

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks @C-Bag
> I see folks using tap handles in conjunction with some sort of spring loaded tooling in the tailstock.
> Looks like a good project


Welcome to the world of making tools to make tools and on and on. Like Aaron W mentioned another handy project for me was making an adapter to mount a hand crank in the end of my lathe head to crank by hand. My 9x20 doesn't go slow enough for me to feel comfortable threading short threads on the lathe. The hand crank did the trick. When I get more experience I probably won't need it but for real short theads and for using a die in the lathe it works for me.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 13, 2019)

Aaron_W said:


> A real simple but effective way that doesn't require any special tools, is simply chuck up the part to be threaded with a die, then use a tail stock drill chuck to help hold the die straight. Rotate the chuck by hand, and keep a light pressure on the tail stock until it starts threading. Once started, then turning the chuck will just pull the die forward. None of this is under power, all hand turning.
> 
> Not my creation, I got the idea from a Mr Pete video on using taps and dies.
> 
> ...


Is the chuck open all the way so that there's a flat bearing surface againt the die holder?


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## pontiac428 (Nov 13, 2019)

While I understand the pitfalls of buying used, I've gotten some exquisitely good deals on taps on fleabay over the last year or two.  I got the Kromedge "master set" with 3/4 UNC + UNF down, dies, and five tap handles for $115, and they cut like a dream.  The problem is the box is so big it takes up over half of the park bench I live on.  My best deal was $35 for a set of Greenfield GTD taps in UNF, 1" down to #s, look to be never used.  For that price, it's like having a sore ding-a-ling... you just can't beat it.  I've also put together UNC, UNF, and MM tap/drill sets buying onesies and twosies of mixed USA taps and drills until I filled the Huot index boxes.  Those ended up being under $40 a set and didn't take long to put together.  There's a lot to be said about brand name taps.  They cut better.  Now I just wish I hadn't sold my Darex tap sharpener...


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## Aaron_W (Nov 13, 2019)

DavidR8 said:


> Is the chuck open all the way so that there's a flat bearing surface againt the die holder?



In this case yes, on that 1/4" chuck the nose happens to nicely fit inside the die holder to directly support the die. I think it would work about as with a larger chuck if the jaws were open as wide as possible while still fitting inside the holder to give a good base of support. Also by being all the way open it allows the stock being threaded a place to go.

The die / die holder itself doesn't move much, the work is being turned inside the die. The handle is actually up against the cross slide helping to keep the die holder from turning.

I have plans to make a die holder that will fit into the tail stock, but found this tip actually works quite well until I get around to making something better.


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## RobertB (Nov 13, 2019)

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks @C-Bag
> I see folks using tap handles in conjunction with some sort of spring loaded tooling in the tailstock.
> Looks like a good project


Yep, great project that is extremely useful. Step by step instructions:


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## MrWhoopee (Nov 13, 2019)

mmcmdl said:


> Just another idea for someone starting out . Get yourself one of these and fill as necessary .



I had one of those, and we issued them (fully loaded) to all of our machinists. Mine walked away before I got my tools out of the shop. I've been looking for one but haven't been able to find them. They're a great time saver.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Nov 14, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> The die handles with adjustable guides are the only way to fly. I get a pretty straight start most times depending on the type of metal. But nothing beats threading on a lathe for dead true threads.



you know that's funny, I never knew what those things were for on dies handles


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## C-Bag (Nov 14, 2019)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> you know that's funny, I never knew what those things were for on dies handles


LOL, I had my BluePoint set which has that guide on it for over 15yrs before I figured that out. Somehow with no instructions we were just supposed to know that!


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## pontiac428 (Nov 14, 2019)

Then there's me, who takes those critical space-consuming, rickety things off!  I throw them back in the box rather than throw them away, because sometimes they're useful.  They just get in the way of threading up to a shoulder or boss.


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## Dan_S (Nov 14, 2019)

Unless you are super strapped for cash, you might want to pick up one of these tap guides made by Fisher.
$14.95 https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1963&category=

I've owned one for about a decade and a half now, and its never let me down.

For reference Fisher is probably best known for there Pee Dee threading wire sets.


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## francist (Nov 14, 2019)

Me too, the Fisher tap guide is really nice. I have thread wires and a pair of their V-blocks as well.

-frank


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## DavidR8 (Nov 14, 2019)

Buying from LMS is a killer because their shipping costs to Canada are very high. 
I’ll look for a different supplier perhaps. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## francist (Nov 14, 2019)

I bought mine directly from Fisher if that helps. They were very pleasant to deal with.

-f


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## hman (Nov 15, 2019)

MrWhoopee said:


> I had one of those, and we issued them (fully loaded) to all of our machinists. Mine walked away before I got my tools out of the shop. I've been looking for one but haven't been able to find them. They're a great time saver.


McMaster sells them.  Metric 2972A41, Inch 2972A11, $25.30 each









						McMaster-Carr
					

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.




					www.mcmaster.com


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## MrWhoopee (Nov 16, 2019)

hman said:


> McMaster sells them.  Metric 2972A41, Inch 2972A11, $25.30 each
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah, yes! I had been searching for "index" instead of "stand". Now I'm finding them.


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