# Ordered a PM-935TV This Week



## catoctin (Feb 22, 2014)

I have been looking at mills for several months and decided to go with this one based on feedback from this board both on the machine and Matt.  Now for the long wait and preparations.  I still need to get Matt to add a few options before the mill is finally shipped to me.  This leads to a few questions:

1.  I was thinking of going with the PM-45PDF  for the longest time before deciding to go with the 935.  Did anyone look at or go with the 935 z axis power feed?  Also, I noted a "Power Feed on Quill, 3 Steps".  What exactly is that compared to the z axis power feed?

2.  A mobile base is a must for me.  I plan on using Mason MLS-1000 levelers and Albion 2" casters (purchased a month ago).  Both are rated at 1000lbs.  I am now designing  the base and curious how close the mill base mounting holes are to the edges?  I am planning to use angle iron to support the mill and need to figure out how wide it needs to be in order to make use of the mounting bolts.  I am assuming the casting is hollow on the bottom and only needs edge support. Correct assumption?

3.  Lifting??  My original plan was to use a 2 ton HF engine lift.  The mobile base will pretty much rule this out due to clearance issues with the legs.  It looks like it will be off to the rental yard across the bay that has gantry cranes with 3000lbs ratings.  It seems like this may be my only option.  What have others done?


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## Ray C (Feb 22, 2014)

catoctin said:


> I have been looking at mills for several months and decided to go with this one based on feedback from this board both on the machine and Matt.  Now for the long wait and preparations.  I still need to get Matt to add a few options before the mill is finally shipped to me.  This leads to a few questions:
> 
> 1.  I was thinking of going with the PM-45PDF  for the longest time before deciding to go with the 935.  Did anyone look at or go with the 935 z axis power feed?  Also, I noted a "Power Feed on Quill, 3 Steps".  What exactly is that compared to the z axis power feed?
> 
> ...




Answers:

1)  Power Z feed is a convenient way to raise and lower the head.  With power quill feed, once you position the head where you want it, the spindle has a mechanism which can do automatic drilling.  The head stays put but the spindle will auto-drill a hole for you.  The three "steps" refers to three different quill rates measured in mm/revolution.

2)  Sorry, don't know how close the holes are to the edges but, most equipment I know of, it's within 2-3 inches.  The bases are hollow but the bottom rims are usually 2-3" thick and the sidewalls are 3/4 to 1" thick.  I suggest you make a base that is yet a few inches wider (in all directions) than the base.  Big mills like this have been known to tip over if they're not bolted down and when people put 500-600 lbs on the table.  That would be really ugly.

3)  A gantry is the safest way.  I built my own.  Shop cranes make me nervous... -and I am normally not in the least bit a "nervous" kind of person.  


Ray


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## Smudgemo (Feb 22, 2014)

catoctin said:


> 1.  I was thinking of going with the PM-45PDF  for the longest time before deciding to go with the 935.  Did anyone look at or go with the 935 z axis power feed?
> 
> 2.  A mobile base is a must for me.  I plan on using Mason MLS-1000 levelers and Albion 2" casters (purchased a month ago).  Both are rated at 1000lbs.  I am now designing  the base and curious how close the mill base mounting holes are to the edges?  I am planning to use angle iron to support the mill and need to figure out how wide it needs to be in order to make use of the mounting bolts.  I am assuming the casting is hollow on the bottom and only needs edge support. Correct assumption?
> 
> 3.  Lifting??  My original plan was to use a 2 ton HF engine lift.  The mobile base will pretty much rule this out due to clearance issues with the legs.  It looks like it will be off to the rental yard across the bay that has gantry cranes with 3000lbs ratings.  It seems like this may be my only option.  What have others done?



1. I'll probably buy or make a "Crank Yanker" at some point.  It takes a lot of turns of the handle to get from top to  bottom, but how often do you need that?
2. Do the photos below help?  There was an article in Machinists Workshop Oct/Nov '13 about skates where the author used angle iron and bearings to allow movement of his lathe.  Maybe a mobile base is overkill?  I'm not sure I want to bolt mine, but I was thinking of making outriggers of some sort to compensate for the narrow base in the event of less than devastating earthquakes.
3. I used my 2T HF crane to put my 935 in position.  I spun the head 180* and used the lifting ring to get it in place with help from my neighbor.  It doesn't require much ceiling height because as shipped the head is upside down.  But, I was apprehensive until it was in place.  Ray obviously has experience moving heavy machines.  If things go bad, get out of the way.  Fast.  But if you can rent something more substantial, so much the better.  I found it scariest to get it off the pallet.  Once it's on the floor, you can lift it just enough to move it, and that was far less disconcerting.  There are some photos in my flickr album if you want.

Are you sure you want the TV?  I got the TS and a VFD which seems much more simple and reliable.  The VFD was only 2x the price of the 1phase motor upgrade, so it seemed a no-brainer.  Just a thought.

-Ryan


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## darkzero (Feb 23, 2014)

That's a nice mill, congrats! If the PM-935 was available when I purchased my PM45 I think I would have made the same choice. Ever since I saw the similar mill by Modern years ago I really wanted one but thought it would never be possible. But now Matt has made that possible more affordable. I don't regret getting my PM45 though, I'll be happy for a while


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## catoctin (Feb 23, 2014)

Ray C said:


> Answers:
> 
> 1)  Power Z feed is a convenient way to raise and lower the head.  With power quill feed, once you position the head where you want it, the spindle has a mechanism which can do automatic drilling.  The head stays put but the spindle will auto-drill a hole for you.  The three "steps" refers to three different quill rates measured in mm/revolution.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the reply Ray

I have been going over BP mobile base designs that others have done.  Adding Stability pretty much kills using the shop crane idea.  I see you are from MD.  I'm a Terp gone west.

Thanks,
-Joe


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## Ray C (Feb 23, 2014)

catoctin said:


> Thanks for the reply Ray
> 
> I have been going over BP mobile base designs that others have done.  Adding Stability pretty much kills using the shop crane idea.  I see you are from MD.  I'm a Terp gone west.
> 
> ...





Moving heavy stuff is not fun unless you're set up to do it.  Good luck and be safe...

I'm a 16 year transplant from Chicago.  Settled-in here but still looking for a place to call home.


Ray


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## catoctin (Feb 23, 2014)

Smudgemo said:


> 1. I'll probably buy or make a "Crank Yanker" at some point.  It takes a lot of turns of the handle to get from top to  bottom, but how often do you need that?
> 2. Do the photos below help?  There was an article in Machinists Workshop Oct/Nov '13 about skates where the author used angle iron and bearings to allow movement of his lathe.  Maybe a mobile base is overkill?  I'm not sure I want to bolt mine, but I was thinking of making outriggers of some sort to compensate for the narrow base in the event of less than devastating earthquakes.
> 3. I used my 2T HF crane to put my 935 in position.  I spun the head 180* and used the lifting ring to get it in place with help from my neighbor.  It doesn't require much ceiling height because as shipped the head is upside down.  But, I was apprehensive until it was in place.  Ray obviously has experience moving heavy machines.  If things go bad, get out of the way.  Fast.  But if you can rent something more substantial, so much the better.  I found it scariest to get it off the pallet.  Once it's on the floor, you can lift it just enough to move it, and that was far less disconcerting.  There are some photos in my flickr album if you want.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the feedback and pictures Ryan
I noted you spun the head 180 degrees to  lift and saw this in a Grizzly manual for a similar mill.  Why don't  people lift the mill with the head in the shipping position?  Balance?

I am considering an outrigger design for the base.  Your photos were very helpful for this.  This design pretty much rules out the HF crane.

Yeah.. I went back and forth on the TS versus TV with time running out on the next shipment from Taiwan.  For better or worst, I went with the TV.
Thanks,
-Joe


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## Smudgemo (Feb 23, 2014)

Joe,

The manual shows two lifting straps under the ram in front and behind the column, but I think Matt indicated using the ring was fine.  I only had one strap, so I used the ring.  But I'd probably invest in two short straps and move it like indicated if I had to do it again.  

When I tried to lift it off the pallet, I realized it was forward biased by a great deal, and you can't move the head back very far because the motor hits the column.  So I kept the hook on the ring, ran the table toward the right side (just to counter the head going left while not bolted to the pallet) and swung the head 180*.  It's still biased toward the front, but not as bad and it's far easier to get the lift in there and use a shorter chain.  But be advised, my floor is pretty smooth and the casters on the crane did not pivot or roll well at all.  Luckily I had help and things went smoothly and safely.  If you don't already own a HF crane, you might want to rent something instead.  

Try to get the delivery guy to put it as close to its final spot as you can.  I was most worried about a lip at the entry of the garage, but he got the pallet jack over it w/o much trouble.  I should have asked him to turn it 90* so I was simply backing it into its spot, but I was so relieved it was in the garage that I forgot.  You've got plenty of time, so give it some thought.  And keep some cash on hand as incentive/thank you if he goes above and beyond because he had every right to drop the crate in the street at the curb and blow outta there once the paper was signed.  Ask for a smaller truck if you have any issues.

The final spot:



And not that anyone cares, but I'm from Wisconsin.  No offense, Ray.
-Ryan


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## Ray C (Feb 23, 2014)

Smudgemo said:


> Joe,
> 
> 
> The final spot:
> ...



Nice clean setup...  Is that a 5" vise on the bed or 6"?

Ray


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## catoctin (Feb 23, 2014)

Smudgemo said:


> Joe,
> 
> The manual shows two lifting straps under the ram in front and behind the column, but I think Matt indicated using the ring was fine.  I only had one strap, so I used the ring.  But I'd probably invest in two short straps and move it like indicated if I had to do it again.
> 
> ...



Ryan,
I was worried about the forward bias part.  My drop off (hopefully) will be in my side driveway.  Our neighborhood has a no garage door in front of the house policy.  It is flat but pebbled.  This pretty much rules out rolling any crane around. I do have a HF 2T crane but the gantry seems to be the way to go.  One guy in the bay area seems to rent them and I have a pickup truck.  Hopefully, I can get enough time to get the mobile base together in time.

Thanks,
-Joe


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## Smudgemo (Feb 23, 2014)

Ray, it's a 4" actually.


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## Ray C (Feb 23, 2014)

Smudgemo said:


> Ray, it's a 4" actually.



Thank you...  That's very valuable information as it appears to be properly sized for that table.  Looks useable on all three slots and it even looks like it will work mounted parallel to the table.  

Ray


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## catoctin (Feb 25, 2014)

Guys,
I have another question on DRO's.  Matt sells the "Easson ES-8A 3 axis DRO" and the "Easson ES-12 3 axis DRO".  Are there any other advantages the ES-12 has over ES-8A?  I know the ES-12 has a graphics display but am not sure how useful this is over the 3 axis display of the ES-8A.

Thanks,
-Joe


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## Smudgemo (Feb 25, 2014)

catoctin said:


> Guys,
> I have another question on DRO's.  Matt sells the "Easson ES-8A 3 axis DRO" and the "Easson ES-12 3 axis DRO".  Are there any other advantages the ES-12 has over ES-8A?  I know the ES-12 has a graphics display but am not sure how useful this is over the 3 axis display of the ES-8A.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Joe



The 8s are in stock and the 12s are not is one big difference.  Assuming my 12 shows up before your mill does, you are welcome to swing by and check it out.  I only ordered 2 axis, but I'm thinking of upgrading the unit to 3 axis in case I ever want to rig up the knee.  I'll probably put a stand-alone DRO on the quill at some point before that, though.

-Ryan


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## darkzero (Feb 26, 2014)

I got the ES-12 after waiting patiently for Matt to first get them in. I had the ES-8 for a short period of time before that. I never used the line & bolt hole pattern functions on the ES-8 but the graphical display on the ES-12 make all those features visually easier to use. I love the ES-12 and was set on getting one but functionally they do the same.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/9885-My-PM45M-PDF?p=105433&viewfull=1#post105433


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## Ray C (Feb 26, 2014)

darkzero said:


> I got the ES-12 after waiting patiently for Matt to first get them in. I had the ES-8 for a short period of time before that. I never used the line & bolt hole pattern functions on the ES-8 but the graphical display on the ES-12 make all those features visually easier to use. I love the ES-12 and was set on getting one but functionally they do the same.
> 
> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/9885-My-PM45M-PDF?p=105433&viewfull=1#post105433



Thanks Will...  The ES-12 didn't exist when went with DRO and I wasn't sure if these were pretty much identical except for different displays.  All I can say is my ES-8 and the scales that came with it are many years old now, used heavily and still going strong.

Oh, I want to mention to folks that if you ever notice that your DRO cannot zero-in on a number and as you creep-upon a value it way overshoots, it means you need to oil your leadscrews or ways...


Ray


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## catoctin (Mar 28, 2014)

Thanks guys for all of the help both on the forum and via PMs.  I have been tied up a bit for the last month moving an operation at work and finally got back to my mobile base.  Most of the welding is done so I am starting to think about paint color.  It's really hard to tell from pictures if the PM935 is white or a very light gray.  I was thinking of painting the base close to the mill color.  Has anyone done a color match on the mill for touch up or otherwise?


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## catoctin (Mar 28, 2014)

Also, are there any preferred paint suppliers?  Some of the forums referred to machine paint suppliers.  I was originally thinking of using Rust-oleum.  Good paint is getting scarce in California because of the air regs.

Thanks,
-Joe


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## catoctin (Mar 30, 2014)

I finally completed the construction of the mobile base for the PM935 today.  The main frame is made from 4" x 4" square tubing with 3/16" wall thickness and the interior shelf for the mill is made from 3" angle with 1/4" thickness.  I took Ryan's advice on out-rigging and made the left-right dimension 40" for stability.   The leveling pads are Mason MLS-1000s and the wheels are 3 " Albion's rated at 1200lbs (shown unmounted in the picture).  I estimate this guy weighs more than 150 lbs so it should help lower the center of gravity of the final setup.  There is roughly 3/4" space over the outer dimensions of the mill base so it should fit fine.  I am sooo tired of TIG welding after this project.

 Now for painting it.  It looks like most folks are going with Sherwin Williams "Industrial Enamel HS".  My local dealer gave me the name of a factory rep to hunt it down.  It looks like I will have to use a hardener with it to get reasonable drying time.  If this does not pan out then I may be going with     Valspar Tractor And Implement Enamel.  

-Joe


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## wrmiller (Mar 30, 2014)

Very nice. When I finally order my 935TV, will you build me one of these?  )

Bill


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## catoctin (May 18, 2014)

I finally finished my mobile base.  There was a big delay on painting it.  I originally planned to use Sherwin-Williams high solids industrial equipment paint.  However, it is not sold in California.  The company sent me to one of their industrial stores as if it was sold here and the guy working at the store determined it did not pass the VOC laws.  Only the US government can buy it here on a waiver.  I finally went with Valspar Tractor paint from Amazon.  It seems other folks are now using this for machinery.  However, UPS emptied the cans before it arrived.  The second batch arrived with lids attached and heavily dented.  I never would have thought getting decent paint would be so hard.  

I mixed both the primer and top coat with acetone solvent and the hardener using a 8:2:1 ratio.  The primer tack dried within an hour and was suitable for the top coat the next day.  I let the paint cure outside for a week in 90 degree weather for a week before adding the wheels.  The paint feels dry but is not abrasion resistant yet.  I can still cut into the paint on the over spray areas with my finger nail.

Pictures of the assembled base below:
View attachment 089A1039.JPG
View attachment 089A1040.JPG
View attachment 089A1041.JPG




Hopefully, I get my mill soon to try it out.  I am current on week 12 of the 8-11 week lead time.  My unit was supposed to be in the next shipment.  Matt must be really booked.  I emailed him several times over the past month trying to add a DRO and some power fees to my order.  He acknowledged getting my email over the phone was was planning on giving me an updated quote but nothing so far.  Given the number of machines being received by forum member recently, he must be flooded with new shipments arriving at his shop.  I suspect my mill will be ready in June sometime.  Time to start collecting tooling!


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## zmotorsports (May 18, 2014)

Nice work on the base.  

I too and waiting on my 935TV.  Matt told me he was hoping to see my 1340GT about the second week of May and the 935 would be a week or two after that.  I hope to see my machines in the next couple of weeks myself.

The 935 looks like a great machine and Matt told me they were every bit as nice as the Sharp mills and nicer than the Jet 836.  I have a friend who has the Jet 836 and it is a nice machine so I am way excited to see the 935.

Mike.


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## Stonebriar (May 31, 2014)

Has anyone removed the collet pin in their 935?  Since there is  no manual I was going to go by the Bridgeport manual but they are not the same.  I know the collar is left hand thread, I made a tool to fit the pins but haven't cranked on it yet.  I don't know about set screw on the quill. Does it have anything to do with this procedure?  Any info would be helpful.

Thanks,
Rick


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## Smudgemo (Jun 1, 2014)

Stonebriar said:


> Has anyone removed the collet pin in their 935?  Since there is  no manual I was going to go by the Bridgeport manual but they are not the same.  I know the collar is left hand thread, I made a tool to fit the pins but haven't cranked on it yet.  I don't know about set screw on the quill. Does it have anything to do with this procedure?  Any info would be helpful.
> 
> Thanks,
> Rick



Do not remove that collar until you back out the set screw on the back side of the quill or you'll wreck the threads.  Trust me.  I'm not sure how it's best reassembled, but when the collar's set screw is too tight, the quill doesn't properly retract.  When the collar is too tight, the spindle doesn't turn as freely as it should.  

I left the pin in place, but backed it out a bit because it was obstructing the collets.  The pin itself is threaded, but there is also a second grub screw to lock it in place.  I believe they are metric fasteners.  

-Ryan


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## Stonebriar (Jun 1, 2014)

Thanks that is what I needed. Yea, I can't get a single tool holder installed because the pin is sticking out so far.

Rick


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## Stonebriar (Jun 1, 2014)

Well all went well. Thanks

Now if I can get my Easson 12 replacement from Matt I will be cooking with gas.


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## darkzero (Jun 1, 2014)

Stonebriar said:


> Now if I can get my Easson 12 replacement from Matt I will be cooking with gas.



What happened to it?


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## Stonebriar (Jun 1, 2014)

I ordered it with the mill but he got a bad batch of them.  I am waiting on the replacement.  I think some had bad screens and some would just power off after a few minutes.  Luckily he caught them before shipping.

I assume they are repairing the broken DRO since this happened in mid February and I am still without it.  

Rick


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## catoctin (Jul 28, 2014)

I was looking at adding LED lighting in the area of my mill when it arrives.  I did not want to use halogen due to the heat and was looking at alternatives. I see some folks have done angel eye setups but will need to see the mill before getting into that.  Another alternative I am considering is the LED flood lights sold on Ebay.  I have real good luck with these with my son's batting cage.  We are currently using nine 50W units that light the 55'x14' area bright as daylight.  Using this approaching will require a custom stand since the lights are heavy.  Does anyone have any other suggestions?  I need to kill some time with this project until my mill ships.  I am currently on week 23 of my wait and hope it ships before summer is over.


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