# Slipping tail stock



## rock_breaker (Aug 1, 2017)

I was recently asked a question about a slipping tail stock which I had improved by adjustment but it still wasn't good like my Cklausing so I got curious and removed the clamping plate from my Asian lathe. In the picture below you are looking at the tail stock clamp, the blue stripes on each side are the machined surfaces that snug up to the bottom side of the lathe ways when the tailstock is set to hold work pieces or drill holes. After 5 years of service the paint is still there. Also they are bowed with the center being lower. I intend on trying to make them straight and parallel.


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## Bob Korves (Aug 1, 2017)

No pic...


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## Terrywerm (Aug 1, 2017)

I tried every trick I know and cannot see the photo either.

I saw a similar problem once where the clamp plate, which was cast, had some flashing on the sides that prevented the plate from clamping properly. Once the sides of the plate were cleaned up so that it had proper side clearance under the bed it worked much better.


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## carlquib (Aug 2, 2017)

I have a similar problem on my pm1440 if there is any serious
tail stock pressure the tail stock slides on the ways. My plan is to remove the paint from the clamping ways and to machine the clamping surfaces of the bottom plate flat. If that fails I may increase the length of the clamping lever. 

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## Zathros (Aug 2, 2017)

terrywerm said:


> I tried every trick I know and cannot see the photo either.
> .



If you use tapatalk you Will have to attach the pic instead of just sending or paste it.


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## Tozguy (Aug 2, 2017)

rock_breaker said:


> I was recently asked a question about a slipping tail stock which I had improved by adjustment but it still wasn't good like my Cklausing so I got curious and removed the clamping plate from my Asian lathe. In the picture below you are looking at the tail stock clamp, the blue stripes on each side are the machined surfaces that snug up to the bottom side of the lathe ways when the tailstock is set to hold work pieces or drill holes. After 5 years of service the paint is still there. Also they are bowed with the center being lower. I intend on trying to make them straight and parallel.


Just curious but what is different about the Clausing TS clamping system versus the problem one?


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## rgray (Aug 2, 2017)

I had that same problem with my M1112 shop fox (g4003g eqiv)
One of the big sales pitches was that the tailstock could be torqued to be very accurate.
At the torque they specify the tailstock would slide on the ways.
So I built a "backstop" for it. It works well, I don't always use it but if I need it for heavier "pushes" it's handy to have.
The aluminum top is  1.25 x 1.5 x appox 5" long. the bottom is D2 and is 3/4 x 2.5 x 4" and clamped by a 7/16 bolt.
Just slide it up behind the tailstock and clamp it down with a 5/8 wrench. There is a relief milled into it for the tailstock centering indicator and rivets so they are not flattened.


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## woodchucker (Aug 2, 2017)

still waiting on the pic


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## Wreck™Wreck (Aug 2, 2017)

Tozguy said:


> Just curious but what is different about the Clausing TS clamping system versus the problem one?


Don't know about the OP but I had a Clausing with a cam operated tail stock clamp, there was a nut on the bottom of the clamp block foe adjusting the tension that worked a charm.


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## Splat (Aug 2, 2017)

I had some problems at first with my G4003G TS slipping. I cleaned off the underside of the way and adjusted the nut underneath. All is well now. If that didn't work I was going to make a bigger plate for the underside.


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## Silverbullet (Aug 4, 2017)

I think if it's bowed I'd make a new one and maybe case harden it for strength , or use 4140 . Or even use thicker steel and cut ledges to keep aligned. Or maybe your applying to much pressure to the tooling . If it takes that much to hold the tailstock . A little to much pressure on locking the tailstock overtime I guess.


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## Splat (Aug 4, 2017)

If it's one of those cam locks with an arm on it then you have to adjust the locking nut under the plate to ensure you're reaching the lobe for maximum pressure, otherwise you could be going over/past or under and not having enough pull on the under plate.


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## rock_breaker (Aug 10, 2017)

Looked into my clausing tailstock clamp yesterday, as I mentioned earlier it has a 5/8" bolt to tighten the clamp. All surfaces were machined smooth. The 5/8" bolt is like a carriage bolt and can move lateral to the ways a little. My Enco lathe has a cam action with an adjusting bolt going through the plate. There is a washer between the bolt and the plate but the plate is rough like just coming out of the mold.  Another project!!!
Have a good day
Ray


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## petertha (Aug 10, 2017)

I experience the same thing on my 14x40, especially noticeable with freshly applied way oil. I love how the tailstock slides into position, but that kind of goes against you when you want it to stay put with heavier drilling. I got looking at the underside cast iron clamp plate. Its not the nicest piece of work. I think maybe it could be made larger to base footprint & better width spec & probably double the contact area. I also  recall the milled surface finish was really crappy so its more like only the 'tops of the hills' that are truly in contact. Is there anything like brake pad material that one could attach for gription? After all, our disc brakes don't relay on lubricated metal on metal to stop the car


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## Randall Marx (Aug 10, 2017)

Hi Petertha. Your brake lining idea sounds interesting, but that material does not play well with any kind of oil. I wonder about the material used for wet clutches. That grips and transmits torque and power while being submerged in oil. Might be the ticket. I'll be watching this one for a workable solution in case I have a similar problem when I get a larger lathe.
Randall


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## rock_breaker (Aug 11, 2017)

If I am not mistaken the braking system on the larger mining trucks are similar to the clutches; multi-disk oil cooled. I have one source that I will ask about the availability of a brake disk.  These brakes were advertised to get a loaded truck down 2 miles of 8 % grade without fading. Going from memory the disks on an 85 ton truck were about 30 inches OD by approximately 5 inches wide. In the meantime I am going to try to get the paint off the working faces and machined to closer tolerance on the Enco 13x40.
Have a good day
Ray


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## Zathros (Aug 11, 2017)

Just à thought that jumped in My mind, I use carbon Grease often when working on high end bicycles. Carbon Grease contains à very tiny grit of sand or No slipping material also Used for polyester surfaces on small boats. It is red in general and does Grease and protect but might be à simple solution to your problem.
Grts
T


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## Tozguy (Aug 11, 2017)

Zathros said:


> Just à thought that jumped in My mind, I use carbon Grease often when working on high end bicycles. Carbon Grease contains à very tiny grit of sand or No slipping material also Used for polyester surfaces on small boats. It is red in general and does Grease and protect but might be à simple solution to your problem.
> Grts
> T
> 
> ...



Zathros, where would a non slip grease be used on a bicycle.....seat post maybe ?


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## Zathros (Aug 11, 2017)

Everything that can slide. Or has à clamp. You cannot use the normal anti seize Grease there. All where Carbon touches other Carbon and or aluminium. Or titanium I forgot.


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## Splat (Aug 11, 2017)

I would be wary of any type of grit paste getting into places on my lathe I don't want it to be. Just make a longer under-ways plate and you'll be good to go.


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## Zathros (Aug 11, 2017)

Maybe I should have mentioned the bottom side only. 


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## Tozguy (Aug 11, 2017)

Zathros said:


> Maybe I should have mentioned the bottom side only.
> 
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk Pro



Yes that makes sense. It sounds like an interesting product. In a carbon bike frame, where clamping forces could be limited, help might be needed to hold tight enough as mentioned in this ad. On a lathe however it would be difficult to keep way oil from fouling the 'fibre-grip' on the plate. 

http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/specialty-products/fiber-grip-


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## Robert LaLonde (Aug 14, 2017)

> I have a similar problem on my pm1440


   Me too.  Also the spring pin that holds the offset cam to the shaft in the mechanism is too short.  This means some of your energy is taken up from flexing and twisting.  I sheared it off from bumping the handle forward to lock the tail stock in place.  When I replaced it I used a longer spring pin.  It helped, but under heavy drilling forces it still moves.  If I take it apart again I'll use a solid tapered pin the next time.


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## Zathros (Aug 14, 2017)

Tozguy said:


> Yes that makes sense. It sounds like an interesting product. In a carbon bike frame, where clamping forces could be limited, help might be needed to hold tight enough as mentioned in this ad. On a lathe however it would be difficult to keep way oil from fouling the 'fibre-grip' on the plate.
> 
> http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/specialty-products/fiber-grip-



Not so much since it also has water resistent properties. So oil or any other greasy substance Will not replace the Carbon Grease or anti seize that quick.
The grain in it is usually grind from shells or clamps. Freely translates from dutch as silversand. Like on the decks of polyester boats.



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## Tozguy (Jan 6, 2018)

The more I think about it, the more it looks like the whole tailstock design is not designed to hold very much strain. The quill screw and nut, the dovetail joint between base and TS body and the hand crank among other features are such that it might be a good thing that the TS slips on the ways at some point to prevent over stressing the system. 
If a TS slips at relatively low pressure when the locking mechanism is well adjusted and tightened normally, I would try wiping the TS ways dry to get better traction on the ways and leave it at that.


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## Robert LaLonde (Jan 6, 2018)

carlquib said:


> I have a similar problem on my pm1440 if there is any serious
> tail stock pressure the tail stock slides on the ways. My plan is to remove the paint from the clamping ways and to machine the clamping surfaces of the bottom plate flat. If that fails I may increase the length of the clamping lever.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk



Did you resolve this problem?  I found on my pm1440 that the spring pin that holds the locking cam on the shaft was too short.  It would flex, and eventually it broke off.  I replaced it with a longer pin.  The tail stock will still walk under heavy drilling pressure, but its a lot better.  I may replace the spring pin (roll pin) with a solid tapered pin.  A longer (and heavier) handle might help but I think the flex in the pin is partially the culprit.  I did take up the clamping bolt a turn so you can't quite push the lever to the stop anymore.  That also helped some.  If I lean into it with a light surge of pressure it helps a little more.


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