# Boyar schultz 612 ways



## BCwoods (May 28, 2022)

So I bought a surface grinder with the intentions of fixing cleaning etc.. however I'm finding the table run out side to side is about .0005 and dips to .001 in the middle. So there is a ridge on the way guide on the far side where your finger nail can catch it.... the ways them
	

		
			
		

		
	




	

		
			
		

		
	
selves you can see wear as expected. So iv heard of scraping but never have attempted it.  This machine is just a hobby and is worth the time to fix it should I just move on. Can or should a novice even attempt this?  Also the way guides look replaceable. Thanks


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## Nutfarmer (May 29, 2022)

I would start with something simpler like a flat cast iron piece or maybe a cast iron angle plate. The bright side is now you have a reason to take one of Richard Kings scraping classes.It's a journey. That is how we all have learned.


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## Richard King 2 (May 29, 2022)

Thanks Nutfarmer.   The lube system wasn't working properly.  It has Turcite on the bottom of the table and even though Turcite is self lubricating it can wear as you can see.  If I recall the table gets oil from a gravity fed reservoir on the top of the table.   If it is worn so much and you can catch your fingernail on the ridge There isn't much you can do accept scrape the ways and match fit the old Turcite to the new scraped ways.  Or replace it.  The ways look like they were ground from the factory.

Are they soft or hardened.  I am assuming they are soft, but check them on an oil groove with a small file.  If they are hard you will have to get them ground.  The factory had grinding fixtures to get proper alignment.  Hard to repeat in a regular grind shop.  If they are soft, hire a machine rebuilder or as Nut says come to one of my scraping classes and I will help you do it plus you will learn to scrape.

I have a class in July the 18 - 22 and I'm about 8 hours drive from Chicago.  It's a Monday - Friday class.  If you came you could load up your grinder and bring it with.  I suspect the base and saddle bottom are worn too.  I can't guarantee we could scrape it in 45 hours, the class length.  I suppose you could stay a few extra days to finish it.    The price of the class would be about the same as what a rebuilder would charge you I bet.

Or just clean out the lube system and scrape some new square cuts in the Turcite and use it as is.

You can look at how my classes work by looking at the top forum list where I linked to the Classes I taught in Vacaville CA a few years ago.  All my classes are similar to it.    https://www.hobby-machinist.com/forums/richard-king-king-way-scraping-consultants.518/

Rich


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## BCwoods (May 29, 2022)

thanks all for your input, its given me something to think about. Yes I agree improving your skill base is a great thing, and learning to scrape is a great one. Also I learned what to look for on grinders and I hope that somebody else learns something and wont have issues like I do


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## Richard King 2 (May 29, 2022)

Be sure to clean out the gravity oil lines and cavities as they are probably full of grit.  Oil and grit = lapping compound


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## pdentrem (May 29, 2022)

Those one time oilers are an issue. The issue is no one cycles it every time they use the machine, and the electrical ones are usually plugged or empty. 
The reason why one finds these SG used is for exactly this reason, wore ways and carriage.
Pierre


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## Richard King 2 (May 29, 2022)

If the machine has proper maintenance then it will work.  The factory could have installed a pressure lube system but didn't. They expected the operator to PM the machine on a schedule.  If BC wants to get it scraped then it could be upgraded for under $500.00 but the machine isn't worth it.   Scraping a machine like that would be a minimum of 30 hours and Machine Rebuilders charge $100.00 to $125.00 per hour.


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## pdentrem (May 29, 2022)

We have a 70 year old Landis cylindrical grinder that still does it’s job with accuracy. Every time I touch it, even if not operating it, I cycle the luber. No hard to do!
Maintenance is always the issue, and is almost always the first to be reduced or even cut by the bean counters. At the shop multiple users touch our SGs and auto lubes still need to be refilled and maintained themselves. They are shown how and why but the least they can do is refill or let us know the level is down.
I am not paid to babysit the operators, as I would have to charge twice my rate!
Pierre


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## BCwoods (May 29, 2022)

I'm hearing the the Turcite guides can be replaced, they are just screwed on...if this is true would replacing the guides for new ones work as a straight edge they you could blue up and use as a reference to scrape the ways? Yes this machine has a auto oilier


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## Richard King 2 (May 30, 2022)

If the waays the Turcite rides on are worn and high on the ends replacing the Turcite won't help. Turcite spec's when new are +- .002" so it needs to be scraped after it's put on new.  You have a surface grinder with 1 point contact when grinding.  If I were you I would use a very small hard plastic hammer or a plastic handle on a screw driver and tap on the old Turcite and this will tell you if the epoxy bond line is broken.  If the noise is solid, it's good if you hat a slap noise then it's loose.   If it's solid then you can re-scrape the old material.   Looking at the oil grooves, it looks as if the Turcite is either .047" or .062 thick, so you have a lot of life left.  The material isn't cheap.  I'll check on price and add another post.


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## Richard King 2 (May 30, 2022)

I got this quote in March.  It is Rulon 142 which is the same thing as Turcite B.
It was a pleasure speaking with you this afternoon.   Here are the current costs of your requested RULON 142 thickness:  I buy it from Tstar.com and it is sold in square ft.  plus glue and shipping.  Like I said before you need to scrape the soft ways first and then match fit the Turcite.

3 feet of .032” x 12”                        $104.43/ft

4 feet of .047” x 12”                        $108.35/ft

4 feet of .062” x 12”                        $125.60/ft


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## Cadillac (May 30, 2022)

Where on this machine is turcite? I do see that on the saddle there is what looks like replaceable hardened way inserts. I have a similar Boyer Shultz it’s a challenger model which does not have replaceable inserts. Mine are glued down from the factory. Honestly your table looks in better shape than mine. You can see flaking across the Whole way. I’m not saying it’s not worn but my machine does a pretty good job. Have you tried the machine and measured any inconsistencies in the table itself? With the  table not having much support from the saddle on the traversing the saddle ends wear quicker.


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## Dabbler (May 30, 2022)

@Cadillac the Turcite is on the bottom of the table.


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## Richard King 2 (May 30, 2022)

Dabbller is right.  It sure looks green on the table to me.   If the saddle is hard then I would have it ground.  If it has hardened inserted ways, I bet the factory had a special fixture to bond it on.


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## Richard King 2 (May 30, 2022)

I see this thread.  I wonder if Boyer Shultz  put Turcite on or it another owner did.  









						Boyer Shultz 6x12 rebuild
					

So after clean up and inspection I noticed something maybe someone knows. My machine a BS h612 challenger. Circa late 70’s. I’ve read in earlier and my manual that as a option hardened ground and scraped ways. I’m no expert by any means but when I look at the “scraped” surface. To me it’s been...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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