# QCTP Question HF 12x36"



## Pontiac Freak (Nov 22, 2012)

Question for you all, recently I was able to pick up a used 12x36" HF lathe.  It currently has the 4 sided tool post holder that it came with, I would like to upgrade it to a QCTP.  I have been reading and was wondering what the difference is on the Piston Style and Wedge Style and what the advantages are to either if any?  I am mainly working with mild steels so far.   TIA!


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## jgedde (Nov 22, 2012)

I have the Grizzly version of that lathe.  An AXA QCTP fits it perfectly. 

 The difference between piston and wedge is this:  

1)  The piston type is cheaper, but doesn't draw the toolholder down against the top lock nut so it doesn't repeat quite as well.  
2)  The wedge type is a bit more rigid and will repeat better if you remove and replace the toolholder.

For HSM use, IMHO, the route you go is purely a financial decision.  If money is no object, the Aloris is the Cadillac.  Phase II is a step down, and the generic imports are exactly the same in design as the Phase II but fit and finish isn't quite as good.  I am using an import version and it works just fine.  All are cross compatible.  

John


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## Pontiac Freak (Nov 22, 2012)

I thought the axa was only good for Up to12". It holds 1/2 tooling?  I just didn't want to get too small of one.


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## jgedde (Nov 22, 2012)

Pontiac Freak said:


> I thought the axa was only good for Up to12". It holds 1/2 tooling?  I just didn't want to get too small of one.



The AXA holds 1/2" tooling no problem.  That's the size holders I use with carbide inserts.  I

 have no idea how they manufacturers come up with those figures for lathe swing.  It really depends on the height of the compound rest vs the lathe cenetrline.  The AXA is a perfect fit for my Grizzly G4003.  In fact it came with a piston type holder that I upgraded to a wedge type.   My 4003 is virtually identical to your HF, yes?




You'll be fine with the AXA's.  We use the AXA's at work too - on all our Monarch 10EEs (12 swing) and a big Nardini Mascote 14x40"

John


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## Pontiac Freak (Nov 22, 2012)

Yep, mine is the same.  Thanks for the info, I had discarded the axa but will give it a new look!


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## swatson144 (Nov 22, 2012)

I would recommend a BXA. I have a 12x36 (older '80s model) Mine has an AXA simply because I had one on the 9x20 and didn't want to buy holders again. Either will work fine but the BXA will hold the inserted parting sets without milling the slots since they start at 5/8". The parting holder that comes with the BXA is a lot less toyish and holds a more suitable blade for this class. I've used both on 12x36 lathes and would go BXA without a compelling reason for AXA.

In a nutshell you are not likely to buy a smaller lathe in the future and a bxa will work very well indeed. No point in starting at the min. size since there is only a couple $ difference in price. Nothing you can't overcome but...

Steve


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## Pontiac Freak (Nov 22, 2012)

Parting has been something I have wanted to do but havent pursued.  5/8" is the smallest parting blade?


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## jgedde (Nov 22, 2012)

They come smaller.  My AXA holders use a 1/2" blade.  FWIW, I'd prefer a 5/8 or 3/4 blade.  I find a 3/32 wide blade suits the lathe's rigidity best.  

If your HF works as well as my Grizzly, you'll be a happy guy!  BTW, the headstock is adjustable if you find she cuts a taper after proper leveling.  It's a bit of a juggle to do and the manual says nothing about the ability to make this adjustment. 

John


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## Pontiac Freak (Nov 22, 2012)

Ok, great info, thanks!  Can you share how to set it up straight since its not in the manual?


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## jumps4 (Nov 22, 2012)

Pontiac Freak said:


> Parting has been something I have wanted to do but havent pursued.  5/8" is the smallest parting blade?



littlemachineshop.com sells 1/2" parting blades in various sizes, but the 5/8" blades work on my 11x26 lathe in an axa tool post.
the holder in the pic fits 1/2 tool holders and turret posts. the thin 1/2" blades work in my little sherline lathe
steve
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3864&category


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## jgedde (Nov 22, 2012)

In a nutshell, there are four bolts that hold the bed to the headstock.  Over the motor there are two bolts with lock nuts (one is very hard to get at).  These are used to jack the headstock fore and aft.  The trickiness comes when you tighten down the headstock - it tends to change the adjustment you so carefully made.

I plan on redoing it with a different method of test bar.  I'll document it when I do it.

John


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## jumps4 (Nov 22, 2012)

to set my tool post 90 degrees to the spindle i move it against the face of the closed chuck jaws centered then tighten down the post.
there is probably a better way but it works well for me.
steve


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## swatson144 (Nov 22, 2012)

Pontiac Freak said:


> Parting has been something I have wanted to do but havent pursued.  5/8" is the smallest parting blade?



No it is certainly not the smallest. IMO it is so much smaller than you need on this size machine. I really don't like using these little easy to break blades on anything more than 3/4"


In the above picture I got poor results on a piece of 3/4" SS but it worked.



Above is a more reasonable expectation of this class machine. I don't recall the size but i can get 1.5 inches through the spindle and I'm thinking 2" through the chuck.



In the middle is the parting tool I made from a lantern tool holder, right of that is the same parting tool that works well on the 7x10 or 9x20. at top is another of them. To the left is the holder I milled out for the day (be still my beating heart) that I can justify buying something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/350442442671?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 but you'd need 5/8" holders. I'd get the 3/4" sized if I had a BXA and no worries or milling.



Another view.

Everybody is giving you good advice. it will all work I am pointing out just some of the shortfalls of a AXA on a 12x lathe. You will spend money on each holder you buy 9$ each on axa from cdco or 11$ each.

Have fun with which ever you choose and rest assured it will work. psst get the wedge type.

Steve


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## Pontiac Freak (Nov 23, 2012)

Wow!  Lots of good info.  So for parting, you need a thicker and taller blade to do deeper cuts?  If I wanted to cut through 4" round mild steel would the 1/2" be enough or do I need to go to 5/8" or 3/4"?  What are the limits of the tooling (good to know before I try, so pieces dont go flying all over the shop because I overestimated) :lmao:


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## jgedde (Nov 23, 2012)

Pontiac Freak said:


> Wow!  Lots of good info.  So for parting, you need a thicker and taller blade to do deeper cuts?  If I wanted to cut through 4" round mild steel would the 1/2" be enough or do I need to go to 5/8" or 3/4"?  What are the limits of the tooling (good to know before I try, so pieces dont go flying all over the shop because I overestimated) :lmao:



4"!!!  You'd be much better off with a bandsaw at that diameter!  That's not really a parting off diameter except for a seasoned machinist with a big rigid machine and carbide insert parting blade.

Don't even try that diameter with 3/4, 5/8 or 1/2 tooling.  The bit can and will literally explode!  Ask me how I know...

John


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## jgedde (Nov 23, 2012)

jumps4 said:


> to set my tool post 90 degrees to the spindle i move it against the face of the closed chuck jaws centered then tighten down the post.
> there is probably a better way but it works well for me.
> steve



Steve, that's how I do it too...  But I was talking about aligning the headstock to the bead not the toolpost to the work.    

John


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## Pontiac Freak (Nov 23, 2012)

Ok, good to know!  So what are the limits for those blades?


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## swatson144 (Nov 23, 2012)

When I am talking 5/8 or 3/4 I am not talking about the blade but the the size slot the blade holder needs in the block for the insert blade sets.. 

The BXA holder takes a 11/16 tall blade by 3/16 thick
AXA is 1/2 by .040

To part a 4" piece you'd need 2" extended which is a fairly tall order for either but I'd rather the 11/16" blade or better yet an insert blade and holder. I'd probably only part 1" deep even with the wider tool because it is difficult for the chips to clear beyond that. 

You can get around most anything with the AXA or I would have HAD to go with a BXA. One of these days I'll run across another machine shop liquidating and change it to BXA I just didn't want to have to buy all new tool holders.

The only point I am putting forward is if you have no reason to settle for an AXA size QCTP go with the BXA size on a 12" lathe.

Steve


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## Pontiac Freak (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks!  That helps!  I am truely a newbie at this and trying to glean all the info I can from the forums so I dont kill myself or wreck my machines!  :thinking:    Every bit of information that you experienced guys give to us newbies is very appreciated!)


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## Pontiac Freak (Nov 26, 2012)

On the A or B mounts do you have to modify anything to get them to fit the HF machine?


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## swatson144 (Nov 26, 2012)

The T nuts come as a blank and need to be machined to fit. This is required for any machine unless you buy from Aloris which will send the correct T nut as you specify *note from aloris themselves not a reseller*

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...YOU-make-a-T-nut-for-your-QCTP?highlight=qctp for more info.

Steve


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## Pontiac Freak (Nov 26, 2012)

Ok, thanks!


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## darkzero (Nov 28, 2012)

I prefer wedge over piston. The wedge just feels so much better. You should be able to use a BXA but be sure to measure based on the dimensions of a BXA tool holder & centerline of your spindle. With 5/8" capacity you'll have a more wider range of tools that are available to choose from.

The BXA QCTP that came with my PM1236 did not require any machining to the T-nut. The "T-nut" was actually round and it fit my compound slide right out the box. I immediately sold it & got a Dorian BXA Wedge Lock but of course the T-nut had to be machined to fit.


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## Pontiac Freak (Dec 7, 2012)

Now you all are in trouble! The big brown truck dropped my Christmas early   Lots more stupid questions to follow as I start putting these together.


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## aliva (Dec 8, 2012)

I don't want to hijack this thread, but a tip concerning parting.
 When parting, don't add any coolant part way through the cut, if you do, the coolant can have a tendency to work harden the piece and make parting very difficult and the chances of breaking the blade go up. Either you use coolant from the beginning  or you don't, as my father once said," don't change horses mid stream""
Not sure what than really means, probably something to do with being chased by the RCMP back on the farm for running a still.


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## Pontiac Freak (Dec 8, 2012)

Sounds like a good idea to me!  Thanks!


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## Starlight Tools (Dec 8, 2012)

Pontiac

I concur with the others that the BXA would be the best choice for the 12x36.  It is the size that King supplies for that size of lathe as well.

Personally, I went with the Dorain V30TC, BXA sized Wedge style, with through coolant.  I locks securely each and every time!

Here is the discussion I had about the different tool holders.


http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/976-Vee-type-QCTP-vrs-Aloris-Style-or-Multifix-40-position-style?highlight=dickson

Walter


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## darkzero (Dec 8, 2012)

Pontiac Freak said:


> Now you all are in trouble! The big brown truck dropped my Christmas early  Lots more stupid questions to follow as I start putting these together.



Congrats! You're going to love using a QCTP. It's one of those things you can't believe you didn't get earlier & would never be without.


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