# ARC-170's Craftsman 101.07403 lathe restoration thread



## ARC-170

I just bought a Craftsman 101.07403 lathe. It is in dire need of taking apart, cleaning and lubing. I have some questions:

1. The spindle bearing might be shot. It turns by hand but feels "crunchy" (I believe that is the proper technical term). Could need replacing. How do I get it out to tell? I may try putting some oil in the cups in the meantime. I'd like details, not just "pull them out". I've never done it, so I need pictures or links to how to do it. Whatever ya got!

2. What oil/lube/grease do I use for lubing the various parts? Is there a table or list somewhere? I couldn't find a manual, just a parts list.

3. What should I clean this with? I'm thinking Simple Green and rags. Lots of rags. Can I use a wire brush, and should it be steel, brass, plastic or bristle? Can I use a wire wheel on a drill or should this be done by hand? Can I soak the rusty bits in Evapo-Rust?  What do I use to clean the "varnish" off? I've seen references to "varnish" several times, and am wondering exactly what that is referring to? Dried up oil on the ways?

4. Is the original paint on this baked on or sprayed on? My lathe has what appears to be paint spill/spatter on it (white dots in the pictures). The original paint is in pretty good shape, so I don't want to mess it up.

5. Is the spindle threaded on with a reverse thread? Mine is stuck on really good. After I spray Liquid Wrench on the thread I want to make sure I'm rotating the spindle in the correct direction. And, what kind of tool can I use to get some leverage? There are no flats on the spindle that could grip a wrench. And if the gear that engages the spindle lock is Zamak, I don't want to break it.

6. Can someone direct me to pictures of what the lathe looked like new so I can see if I'm missing any knobs, ID plates, etc? I think there is a knob missing on the cross slide. Or, just tell me.

7. When referring to my lathe what is the proper way: 101.07403, 101-07403 101 07403 or does it matter? 

If you like, just list the number and your answer, especially if you only answer one or a few of the questions.

Some pictures for reference:

BACK I took the motor off to make it lighter to unload.



FRONT I took the motor off to make it lighter to unload.



GEARBOX



CARRIAGE I seem to be missing a knob.



CROSS SLIDE



CHUCK



DRIVE


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## dlane

Make swarf , and your parts with it, if it needs help fix it.


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## Z2V

ARC-170
Have you looked through the “ downloads “ for the info you need? I can’t answer your questions but you might find it there. 
Nice score on the old lathe


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## wa5cab

1.  It is more than likely that the spindle bearings are OK, just bone dry.  Do not turn the spindle any more until you have them properly lubed.  If you have to do it, the detailed instructions for disassembling and re-assembling the headstock are in an Atlas Technical Bulletin in the Atlas section of Downloads (to access Downloads you must be a donor because Downloads is one of our significant monthly expenses).  Read the instructions for using Downloads that are up above in the Sticky section first.

If the oil cups have felt disks in them, remove them temporarily and run several cup fulls of oil through the cups before you turn the spindle again.  

2.  The factory recommended oil for every place on the machine except the open gear teeth is SAE 20 (ISO 68) non detergent motor oil.  I would use way oil on the ways and dovetails but you can get by for the time being with SAE 20.  For the gear teeth, use a high temperature graphite bearing grease.

3.  Simple Green is OK but I would use Varsol.  Wear surgical or mechanics gloves as it will dry your skin out.  I would use steel or stainless seel bristles on unpainted metal and brass on painted.  Do not use a wire wheel on a drill or grinder.  Varnish is dried oil.  It can be removed with Varsol and steel wool or preferably 3M nylon pads with no grit.  I didn't see anything in the photos rusty enough to warrant disassembly and soaking.

4.  No one really knows but I would assume that the paint on the castings was baked on.

5.  Both ends of the spindle are threaded right hand.  If the spindle nose and chucks and other accessories had left hand threads, they would unscrew every time that you used the lathe.  The factory way to break a not-known-to-be-stuck chuck loose from the spindle is to rotate the chuck until the socket for the chuck key is at TDC, engage back gear without pulling out the direct drive pin, insert the chuck key into its socket, grasp the key with both hands, push the key and chuck away from you, and then pull smartly toward you.  If two trys of that don't break it loose, it is officially stuck.  Try that only after you have soaked the threads with a good penetrating oil such as Kroil repeatedly for several days.  If the second try doesn't break it free, stop.  All of the cast gears in the machine are Zamak.  Crank the jaws out and clamp a 12" length of 2x2 in the jaws, sticking down between the ways.  Wrap a large strap wrench around the bull gear (the large spindle gear) and use it to break the chuck free.  It may take several days of soaking and trying.

6.  The five  things that I spotted in your photos that are either missing or incorrect are the knob on the power cross feed shaft that sticks out the front of the apron up under the cross feed crank and bearing, one of the two handles on the compound feed screw crank, the motor ON-OFF switch in the hole in the rectangular plate on the left front of the headstock, and the threaded lever on top of the tail stock that tightens the tailstock ram locks are all missing.  The nut that retains the crank on the cross feed screw is not original.  The nameplate with model number should be either on the rear of the bed or on the right end of the bed, depending upon vintage.  The Serial Number is stamped into the top of the right end of the front way.  The ON-OFF switch escutcheon (plate) is present.  There are no other plates on this vintage of lathe.

7.  Sears model numbers consist of two or three digits that ID the contractor who built the item, a period, and three to six digits.  Thus 101.07403  However, almost all internet search engines are too dumb to ID punctuation marks so as long as you don't write it as 10107403, you can usually find it.

The lubrication instructions are on pages 7 and 8 in any MOLO that would be appropriate for your machine.


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## NortonDommi

Nice lathe.  Looks as if it has done little work. I like Kerosene for a wash down before going to far as it penetrates well and can loosen thing up.  Well worth find as much documentation first and then a total strip down as it looks like it has been sitting a while.


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## mickri

The chuck on my lathe was stuck on pretty solid when I got it.  I did not want to damage any of the gears.  I used the drive belt like a strap wrench to hold the spindle.  I used PB Blaster for a penetrating oil.  I put a chuck key in the chuck with the key pointing towards me.  Used light taps on the key until the chuck came free.

My lathe was covered with a layer of dried on oil/dirt when I got it.  Used primarily carb cleaner to remove the oil/dirt.  Also used WD40, brake cleaner and dish soap.  For a scouring pad I used the non scratch blue pads.

I used white lithium grease because I had it on hand on all of the gears and shafts and 15/40 wt oil again because it was what I had available on the ways and in the oil caps.  I have also used 3 in 1 oil at times on the ways.  Probably not the  best.

The MOLO has a wiring diagram.  It may or may not be correct for your motor and switch.

After getting your lathe cleaned up and running one of the first things that you are going to want is something other that the lantern style tool posts.  They are a pain to use.  Most people buy one of the many styles of qctp.  That can get very expensive in the blink of an eye.  I decided to make a qctp.  After researching on the web I went with a norman patent style qctp.  Easy but time consuming to make at least for me.  I have a thread on my qctp build in the machine accessories forum. 

The fun begins


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## ARC-170

1. I've heard there are some kind of wick in the oil cups. Where do I get these? Where would I get some kind of oil pan?

2-5. Thanks for the tips! I'll try all them and see what happens.

6. Where is the best source for parts like these? I've looked on Ebay and found a few of the parts. Just wondering if there is anywhere else I should look.


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## ARC-170

_After getting your lathe cleaned up and running one of the first things that you are going to want is something other that the lantern style tool posts. They are a pain to use.  Most people buy one of the many styles of qctp.  That can get very expensive in the blink of an eye.  I decided to make a qctp.  After researching on the web I went with a norman patent style qctp.  Easy but time consuming to make at least for me.  I have a thread on my qctp build in the machine accessories forum._

Where is a good place to buy one? I've looked at a few designs and it seems people make them as well. I just want options. The retail ones are pricey!


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## ARC-170

I have a thread on my qctp build in the machine accessories forum.[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> I couldn't find this. Can you post a link?


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## mickri

I have not seen any of the homemade/diy qctp for sale anywhere.  You will have to make them.  The norman style that I chose can be made with a lathe and a drill press.  No need for a mill although having a mill to cut the slot is a plus.
Here is the link to my thread on making a norman style qctp.  https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/tool-post-holder.69487/


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## ARC-170

8. I was looking at various retail QCTP holder sets. What is the stud with the nut and washer for on all the QCTP tool holders? I've used this type of holder before but none of them had this. The height adjustment on the ones I've used is done with a socket screw; this stud appears to just screw into the same place as the socket screws that hold the tool bit. Can someone clear up my confusion?


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## mickri

Are you asking about the norman style like I am making or the aloris style?  A picture would help.


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## markba633csi

ARC:  the gib screws on your compound need to have nuts to lock the adjustment-
Mark


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## wa5cab

Yes, I missed that.  None of the compound gib screws are original.  They should look like the four on the cross slide, except a size smaller.

It is unlikely that they will need replacing as the steel ones usually last forever.  But if you do, I have the steel gibs available, new manufacture.  The factory switched to plastic ones in the 1970's, one of the few mistakes that they made.

The stud, knurled thumb nut, light spring washer, and hex nut on the top of most QC tool holders are for setting the cutter height.

One problem with making you own QC, or one of them, is that of the #101 or #102, you will need several.  Which adds to the time expended.  The reason that you will need several is that with only one, you lose a large advantage or the QC over the lantern type holder.  A typical job might call for one turning cutter, one facing cutter and one beveling or chamferring cutter.  Every time that you needed to change cutters, you would have to go through the setup procedure to get the new cutter on center.  So you aren't much better off than without a QC.  Counting some 101XL's, I have around 15 of them.  Pretty much anything that I need to do, I just grab the holder with the appropriate cutter.


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## mickri

I have realized the same thing with my norman style qctp.  I am almost done with the first 7 tool holders and can see where I will need at least 4 or 5 more.  It has taken me a long time to make them.  On the other hand the cost has been minimal.  Being retired I have nothing but time and I am learning a lot along the way.  I have two boring bar holders, one holder for parting and one holder for threading.  The other three holders I plan to have one for facing, one for turning and one that will be used for whatever I happen to need until I get more made.


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## ARC-170

mickri said:


> Are you asking about the norman style like I am making or the aloris style?  A picture would help.





What are the posts on the tool holders that have gold and silver nuts for?


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## ARC-170

What if I got a QCTP that held four tool holders? I could set all four up and just rotate the post, correct?


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## wa5cab

What you are describing is called a Turret tool post or 4-Way Turret, not a QCTP.  They are generally better than the lantern type (and by the way, the lantern type has one advantage over the QCTP, which is that on rare occasions they may allow you to get the cutter into the work without the TP being hit by or hitting something but generally not as convenient as the QC.  The other problem with the 4-Way is that you can't always mount four cutters in it because when one cutter is selected, another one may be hitting the work, chuck, etc. And if one of the cutters installed is for facing, it can't be installed in the position CW of the turning cutter because it would be crossing the turning cutter.  Just bite the bullet and get the QC.

Also, the 4-way does not use separate cutter holders.  The cutter is mounted into the 4-way just as it would be mounted into the QC holder.  And finally, there is no way to adjust the cutter height (to get it on center) other than by shimming up under the cutter in the 4-Way.

I  answered your final question yesterday but somehow it is above the question.  The gold nut is the height adjustment and the silver one locks  it in position.


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## ARC-170

9. I'm looking for a change gear set. I need 24, 32 (x2), 36, 40, 44, 46, 48, 52, 54 teeth gears. This is from the parts manual for this particular machine, so I'm assuming it's accurate, I've found a few sets on ebay, but they are missing one gear and might have an extra one. Should I buy a set that is not exact, or wait until a complete one comes up?


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## mickri

You might never need the missing gear.  You can always buy the gear that is missing if you should happen to need it.  I would go over the threading chart for the gears needed to cut common threads and any threads that you anticipate cutting to see if the gear set for sale has the gears you need.   Be sure to check for the gears needed to cut the common metric threads.  It is my understanding that atlas/craftsman has a chart listing every possible thread that can be cut on a change gear lathe.


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## wa5cab

I agree.  While a set that has exactly what you think that you need would be better, single gears do show up as well as sets.  AFAIK, the 101.07403 parts manual that is in Downloads is accurate in this respect.  I am about to release Revision 8 but the changes are limited to cleaning up some of the text for better legibility.  

Note that the full change gear set for a 101.07403 is 15 gears.  It includes five gears that were always on the machine when it originally shipped.  These gears are 20T x 2, 56T and 64T x 2.  So the full set of change gears for a 101.07403 is 15 gears.  Plus one spacer which should always be on the shaft containing the screw gear.  Also, be sure that all of the gears that you buy have an "A" suffix to the part number.  The original 10" and 12" change gears had part numbers of the form "9-101-nn" where "nn" is the tooth count.  These were supplied on all lathes equipped with 5.8" diameter lead screws except for the 101.07402.  These gears have a nominal 3/8" face and 3/8" hub length.  The Revision "A" gears (part numbers "9-101-nnA"), still have a 3/8" face but the hub length was increased to 1/2".  The original gears can actually be used on the later machines but will require two 1/16" thick double-keyed spacers to make up for the shorter hub length.

Note that access to Downloads is limited to donors because the expense of maintaining the Downloads section is a significant part of the site's monthly expenses.


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## ARC-170

10. How do I determine which taper I have on the tailstock? The only tooling that seems to fit is a live center that has "NO 2#" written on the box. I'm guessing #2 Morse taper, but want a way to confirm this.

It's 0.715" in dia at one end, 0.59" at the other and approx 2.35" long. Doing some math gives me a taper angle of about 1.53 degrees which is pretty close to what a Morse taper angle is for this size (1 25' 49". I couldn't measure it any better than the significant digits given so I'm sure there's some error in my calculations.

None of the other tooling I got with the machine fits the tailstock. They appear to be tapered sleeves that hold a #2 MT on the inside, but are way too big to fit in the tailstock. Am I missing something?

Would this work in in my lathe? It's an ER25 so it goes up to 5/8" diameter. Would I want/be able to put bigger diameter cutters in my lathe? I guess I could use a boring bar to make bigger holes, but I have some bigger drills I can use.
https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=5450&category=-421559299

ER32 goes up to 20mm (0.78") so that might be better. I could use them in the mill as well.

I couldn't find any MT2 to ER32 adapters, just MT2 to ER20 and ER25, so I'm guessing this is the limit. Am I correct?


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## T Bredehoft

I was able to find an MT2 to ER40, a couple of years ago. You aught to be able to find anything in between, I'd think.


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## mickri

Your tailstock has a mt2 taper.  The headstock has a mt3 taper.  The sleeves are probably mt2 to mt3 adapters.  You can find er32/mt2 collet chucks on ebay.   I searched for "er32 collet chucks" and got numerous hits.  Here is one example  https://www.ebay.com/itm/MT2-ER32-C...=item5689450044:g:4ykAAOSwAtlaqOza:rk:26:pf:0  You will also find er32 / r8 collet chucks to fit on the mill.  Some of the er32 collet sets come with a mt2 chuck and the wrench.


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## wa5cab

Jeff,

As micri said, all Atlas built 9", 10" and 12" lathes came with a 3MT spindle and a 2MT tailstock ram.  They all originally shipped with a 3MT x 2MT reducing sleeve which has the distinction of offering the shortest conversion of any adapters that I have seen.  When installed in the spindle, almost all of the sleeve is inside the spindle so that a cutter or holder with a 2MT arbor doesn't stick out much farther than it would if the spindle had a 2MT taper to begin with.  All other commercial adapters that I have seen add about 3" of stickout.  Because of this, Atlas shipped two 2MT dead centers with their lathes instead of one 2MT and one 3MT.

As far as the ER collets holders go, there are two types that will fit on an Atlas.  One type screws directly onto the 1-1/2"-8 spindle nose threads like any other chuck.  It's only drawback is that as with any other threaded chuck, you can't safely do any turning, threading or facing with the motor in Reverse.  Otherwise, it is the preferred version as since you don't need a drawbar, up to 3/4" diameter it allows the work piece to stick through the spindle bore so that if you were making several small parts out of round stock, you wouldn't have to pre-cut the stock to rough length but can use long stock, make the part, and part it off with minimum stock wastage.  

The other type will have either a 2MT or a 3MT drawbar type arbor that the chuck is attached to.  Its major disadvantage is that you can't pass the work piece through the spindle.  Plus it usually results in a little more stickout.  Its advantage is that you can safely turn and thread in reverse.  If you were contemplating doing a lot of left hand threads, it would be your choice.  Otherwise, for most work the screw-on type would be preferred.

The only disadvantage I can think of to the ER style collets is that for production work where the part and not the cutter is being held in the collet, they are the slowest.  In order to load and unload parts, you must stop the lathe and pick up a wrench.

And I always like to add to any discussion that involves MT arbors that you should never ever use a Tang type arbor on any cutter or work piece holder mounted in the spindle.  If you do, sooner or later (and probably sooner) the arbor will pull out of the taper and at best you will only ruin the work piece.


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## mickri

I am in process making an er32 collet chuck to fit on the spindle of my lathe.  Making an er32 collet chuck is a good project.  You have boring, internal threading, machining an internal taper and external metric threading.  Or you can buy one from Beall.  http://www.bealltool.com/products/turning/colletchuck.php


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## wa5cab

I took a look at what Beall has to offer.  I was surprised to see that although they offer a 1"-8. which will fit the Craftsman 101.07301 and a 3/4"-16 that will fit a 101.07300 (if there are still any of those around in working order), they do not offer a 1"-10, which would fit the 612, 618, 101.20400, 3950. 101.21200 and 10100.  Has anyone ever asked them why not?  I know that 3/4"-16 fits a lot of larger wood lathes but there are a whole lot of machines with 1"-10.  Just based on the highest serial numbers in the database, Atlas alone made more than 72,927 of them.

Anyway, although I have MT, 3AT and for historical reasons 5C and a 5C chuck, I may buy an ER32 chuck from them next year.  I just wish that 5C went up to 1-1/2" instead of only 1-1/16".

*ADDENDUM:*  The reason that I would go up to ER32 is that it will handle up to 3/4" diameter, which is the largest diameter workpiece that will fit through the spindle bore of an Atlas/Craftsman 10" or 12".


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## middle.road

wa5cab said:


> ......
> Anyway, although I have MT, 3AT and for historical reasons 5C and a 5C chuck, I may buy an ER32 chuck from them next year.  I just wish that 5C went up to 1-1/2" instead of only 1-1/16".


Hehe, 3AT, haven't seen that for awhile. Several years ago I bought a set off eBay to fill out mine for the Logan. Haven't used them at all, dang it.

Darn shame you don't know your Atlas/Craftman lathes, always amazing your depth of knowledge of them.


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## ARC-170

I didn't even think about the spindles! DOH! I have several tang-style MT#3 tapers that fit. They are pretty rough on the surface; any way to clean them up?

I haven't cleaned the machine yet; I'm doing another project in the garage and am waiting for that to be done and out of the way before I make another mess with the lathe. In the meantime, I thought I would take advantage of deals that may be had this time of year and see about getting any tooling.

I bought some R8 collets for the mill, but I may take another look at the ER collets, since, as Mickri pointed out,  I can use them in both machines with adapters. wa5cab/Robert has given me some more info (thank you, sir!) to think about as well. Again, I have to wait until the big project is done before setting up my mill and lathe. I figure I'll ask questions and get ready to roll in the meantime!


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## ARC-170

My lathe appears to be missing a few parts. I have numbered the hole/feature where I think something is missing or that I have a question about to make discussion easier. The feature in question is to the right of the number.


1. There is nothing missing. I just want to know if this type of bolt is this original? It looks newer.
2. The knob is missing. How is it attached? The shaft has a hole in it at 90 degrees to the main axis.
3. What is this bolt for? The parts diagram isn't clear to me.
4. What is this?
5. Is this hole for anything?



6. This is for the locking screw on the tail stock, which I know I need.
7. But, what is this for? It's just a hole.



8. I bought a thread dial. I know I need the bolt to attach it, but what goes in this hole? Another bolt? What does it do? Does it clamp the thread dial?


9. These are labelled "oil". Do they unscrew? Do I pour oil down them? I don't want to try unscrewing them until I know I can.
10. These look like the wrong bolts. They also need lock nuts, correct?


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## westsailpat

1-5 i'm not really sure , yes some of the bolts look un stock . 6 u know 7 is the oil cup , but it is missing the oil quill . The oil is put on the dead center . 8 You are missing some parts , but that is the saddle lock . 9 those screws you un screw and oil . The one closest to the cross feed handle for sure , the other one I think . My lathe only has the one . 10 yes those are not stock and they should have nuts . Whew ...


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## ARC-170

I forgot to point out that #7 has no hole for oil to exit; this is just a hole in the tailstock.


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## guckrob

Here is a manual with an exploded view and part numbers for everything.  you should be able to google different versions of this if this doesn't match your exact model, but this really helped me get the missing pieces for my craftsman 12".  Note that in the cases where the part is a screw, etc there will be an asterisk next to it and the manifest lists the size of the screw so you can easily track down the hardware store parts.

Good luck and I'm sure people here can help you find what you need.


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## guckrob

note that the small set screws on the cross slide do unscrew and are for oil.


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## wa5cab

Some of these questions have been answered but I'll include them here just to have everything in one place.

The Craftsman 12" manual attached above is for the 101.28900 and 28910, not for the 101.07403.  There are enough differences that it may in some cases be more confusing than helpful.  You will need to first make a donation but then you can download the parts manual on the 101.07403 (after reading the Downloads instructions up in the Sticky area).  The 28900/28910 replaced the 07403, 27430 and 27440 in mid 1957.  Some of the parts remained the same but many changed.  Atlas (unlike GM and thousands of other companys) never changed an existing part number unless there was a significant change to the part.  In most cases, if revisions were made to a part and the changed part was backwards compatible either directly or if some other parts were also changed, the revised part kept the original base part number but got a suffix letter beginning with A, then B, and so forth.  When the 10, 10D and then 10F lathes came out, in most cases the base part number was retained but the prefix was changed to 10, 10D or 10F if the new part served the same function but wasn't interchangeable.  Atlas bought Clausing in 1949/50.  But by 1957, the Clausing people had or had begun to have the upper hand and the only part of those rules that the followed was that if the parts usage changed but the part hadn't changed, it kept its original part number.  But if the part was changed it got a new Clausing part number, which I have never been able to determine the logic to. 

Anyway, if the part in the 28900/28910 has an Atlas style part number, it is the same as on the 07403.  If it has a Clausing part number, it is different.  And one improvement that did  appear with the Clausing parts lists is that commercial parts like nuts, bolts, keys, etc. were included and sufficiently described. 

1.  If this is a socket head screw as it appears to be, it isn't original as the original was a Fillister head Phillips screw.  But in any case, it plus the other two plus three square nuts retain the 10F-11 Gear Case on the back side of the apron.  These parts aren't shown on the apron parts drawing for the 101.07403 but are for the 101.28900/28910.

2.  The missing 10F-84 Knob is retained by a 3/32" x 1/2" Groove Pin,

3.  Again, may not be original, but it retains the 10F-81 Bearing, part of the power cross feed.

4.  Retains the 10F-17 Stud, also part of power cross feed.

5.  On the back side of the apron, for one of the two alignment groove pins for the half nut guide.  The only reason that I can think of for it to be drilled through from the front is that it was located off of the hole for the half nut actuator (scroll) shaft (which has to be drilled from the front), and then the other hole was located on the back side off of the first two.  It's the same way on all of the 12" and 10"aprons or carriages.

6.  Yes, a 1/4"-20 square head bolt which should be down in the hole and a threaded lock lever 9-42A.

7.  That hole is for storing the 10D-260 oil or white lead dropper for when you are using a dead center in the tailstock ram.

8.  for the square head bolt for the carriage lock.

9.  Their purpose is to keep swarf (chips, shavings and dust) from getting into the cross feed screw bearing or onto the power cross feed gears.  They are removed for oiling the bearing and gears, then put back in the holes and turned down flush with the top of the dovetail.

10.  Yes, the screws are all wrong and yes, they should all have lock nuts.


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## westsailpat

Oil dropper ..


https://hillsgun.com/product/atlascraftsman-10-lathe-10d-260-tailstock-oil-dropper/ 
would make a nice project ..


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## Superburban

I thin k oil Dauber is the right name. I also think it was one of Mr Petes videos, where he makes one for one of his lathes.

Here is a pic I saved from somewhere, and a drawing, of course the dimensions will need be changed to fit your needs. I will be the first project for my southbend when I get it back together.


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## wa5cab

The original Atlas 10 had a somewhat lighter tailstock without the protrusion and hole for the oil dropper.  The 10D-260 Oil Dropper first appeared with the 10D lathe (as indicated by its part number), which was circa 1936.  The earliest 10" lathe parts list that we currently have is of the 10E, which is the so-called "Unit Plan" version of the 10D (no change gears or back gears).  It lists the 10D-260.  Several pretty good photos from catalogs or brochures show that the 10D-260 probably looked like the one in Post #7 rather than the one in #8.  I would guess that #8 came from either Clausing, Logan or South Bend.  The last dated parts list that we have that shows 10D-260 is Lathe Bulletin 10L-6 dated June, 1966.  So neither the part number nor the name changed over 30+ years.  The re-designed 12" introduced in late 1957 and sold by both Atlas and Sears does not have an oil dropper.


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## ARC-170

Thanks to all for your input! Much appreciated. I should have mentioned that I have the parts list for my particular lathe model. It's just not very clear in some respects.  There are no lines showing where parts go, just the parts shown in approximate relative relation. It's hard to tell what goes where without the center lines that are usually used to show the alignment of parts.

Robert, thanks, as always, for your help.

1. I think this was fixed at some point. I found a broken miter gear that appears to be part of the carriage (there are two listed on my parts diagram). I can't see behind, but I think I might be missing something or the lathe had something repaired. I won't know until I clean the lathe, lube it and then try all the features.

2. Could I just make one of these knobs and buy a roll pin? I need a photo of the knob, though. I could find one on Ebay, but similar ones are really pricey.

3-5. Noted, thanks!

6. This appears to be a simple mechanism. I could make one of these. I have one piece; I could turn the other one and mill the chamfer. Could I make this out of aluminum or would steel be better? I could find one on Ebay, but similar ones are really pricey.

7. I see that now that I know what to look for, thanks! The part is listed in the exploded parts view as "10D-260 oil dropper". Thanks to Superburban and westsailpat!

8. I figured this out after I posted. I plan to buy a bolt and washer and make a square clamp (part#9-14 clamp). I think steel would be best.

9. Noted, thanks!

10. I found the nuts, bolts and washers at Fastenal, which just happens to have a branch near me.

Looks like I need to get the lathe working so I can make a few parts for it!


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## wa5cab

2.  Yes, you can make the knob (out of steel).  The same knob is used on the 28900 & 28910.  The drawing there may be better.  Or you might be able to buy a similar knob from some place like Ace Hardware and drill out the threads and cross-drill it.  Just be sure that the substitute is smooth, not fluted, as the knob will be spinning when you need to pull it out or push it back in.  No but you can buy the taper pin, probably again from Ace.

6.  You can make it out of aluminum but the threads won't last very long.  Use steel.  I think that you can still buy the cast handle from Clausing.  To get the parts out of the hole, first run the tailstock ram all of the way out and then pull it out of the tailstock.  Then slide the tailstock off of the ways and invert it and see if the bolt won't fall through far enough to grab the threads.

9.  There should be a drawing of the 9-14 clamp plate in Downloads.  Use steel.


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## ARC-170

11. (could be #9 continued, but let's go with 11): I've started looking for parts that I need and took a closer look at the change gears on the side. Here is a picture of what came with the machine. It appears to be set up for 0.005" feed (see chart) instead of the "standard" that is shown in the parts manual (see below for specifics). Am I correct?




A: spindle-fixed, isn't changed for threading, feed rate, etc, correct?
B: 24 tooth gear
C: 20 tooth gear
D/E: 32/16 tooth compound gear, isn't changed for threading, feed rate, etc, correct?
B, C, D, and E are part of the reverse/forward mechanism, and are not changed for threading, feed rate, etc, correct?
F/G: 48/20
H/I: 52/20
J: 54 connects to lead screw, correct?

The parts manual calls for F/G to be 56/20 and H/I to be 64/20 and J to be 64.

So it would appear I need the following change gears:
24, 32 (2), 36, 40, 44, 46, 54, 56, 64 (2), and 50 and 60 for metric threads.

For reference the set called for in the parts manual is: 24, 32 (2), 36, 40, 44, 46,48, 52, 54. I think I have 48 and 52 (F, H).

It also appears I need the 9-70A bushings that go in the gears. Correct? None of the change gear sets come with them.

Can someone confirm/correct this so I can start looking for a set and/or individual change gears? Thanks!


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## mickri

Are you sure that gear J is a 54?  It looks too big to be a 54 when compared to your 52 H gear.  It might be a 64.  Other than that it looks like you have identified the change gears you need.  You already have the 9-70A bushings.  There will be a 9-70A bushing on your F/G, H/I and J gears.  These bushings are sometimes stuck in the gears.  At least they were on my lathe.  I had to soak my gears in solvent to free up the bushings.


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## ARC-170

mickri said:


> Are you sure that gear J is a 54?  It looks too big to be a 54 when compared to your 52 H gear.  It might be a 64.  Other than that it looks like you have identified the change gears you need.  You already have the 9-70A bushings.  There will be a 9-70A bushing on your F/G, H/I and J gears.  These bushings are sometimes stuck in the gears.  At least they were on my lathe.  I had to soak my gears in solvent to free up the bushings.



Yes. it has a "54" on it and I just counted them to be sure. The other one has a "52" on it.

I had a feeling the bushings were removable! It occurred to me after I posted and looked again at the parts diagram and didn't see them listed anywhere else. Thanks for confirming.


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## mickri

I saw that you mentioned metric threads.  Here are two links that will help with figuring out what gears you need to cut metric threads.  http://www.lathes.co.uk/latheparts/page14.html.  http://www.conradhoffman.com/metricthreading.htm


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## wa5cab

First some comments. 
I assume that you moved F/G and H/I out of mesh to improve visibility. 

There are two gear positions for each position on the Change Gear Bracket (AKA Banjo), Front and Back, or Front and Rear, or Near and Far.  Your threading chart should use Front and Rear.  This includes the Screw Gear, although there should never be but one actual gear in the Screw position.  The other position is occupied by a smooth spacer.

A gear in the Rear position can only mesh with another gear in the rear position.  A gear in the Front position can only mesh with another gear in the Front position.

Any gear that is both driven and driving is an Idler.  It can be replaced with anything else that will fit without changing the speed of the lead screw

The only gears that can effect the speed of the lead screw relative to the spindle are compound gears and the screw gear

A is the spindle gear.  It never changes.

B & C are the tumbler gears.  They never change.  Which one is FWD and which is REV depends upon whether there are an even number or an odd number of gears in the rest of the gear train.  And for that matter on how you want to define FWD and REV,

D & E never change, but if you look at the threading chart, you will see that sometimes C is driving the next gear in the train and sometimes D is.  If C is used, the lead screw will turn half as fast as it will if D is used.  In other words, using C gives you a 2:1 reduction.

F and G are not a compound gear because G cannot mesh with anything.  Therefore, F is an Idler and G is a Spacer.

H and I are a Compound Gear.  H is driven by F and I drives J, the Screw Gear on your threading chart.

J is the Screw Gear.  It is currently in the Front position and in the Rear position is a spacer.  So yes, J connects to the screw.

There should already be two 9-70A keyed bushings on the Banjo, one in F & G and one in H & I.  After dinner, I'll confirm your Needed list.  But it's probably right, except for the two 9-70A's.


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## ARC-170

12. How much does this lathe weigh? Just the lathe, not the stand. I thought of getting a crane scale to use with my engine hoist but that seems a waste for just one use. Can these be rented? I thought of getting a used one on CL, but I'm afraid it might not be accurate. I don't need the weight to the nearest ounce; the nearest pound will be fine.
13. I bought another lathe to use for parts: the belt guards and some other pieces mine is missing. It is a different color, though. I'd like to paint the machine. Does anyone know the actual color names or should I just get close? Does it really matter, anyway? Mine is an aqua green. I like it, but I haven't seen a rattle can color that matches. I could get it matched at an auto paint shop but that might be expensive, especially since I don't think I need auto paint for the lathe anyway. I'm open to painting it another color. However, I may just clean it, put the parts on and have it look mismatched for awhile. "Frankenlathe!"


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## mickri

If you have a bathroom scale you can get the weight of your lathe.  Make three spacers out of wood or whatever that are the same height as the scale.  Put the scale under one leg and the spacers under the other three.  Then swap the scale from one leg to the next recording the weight at each leg.  Add them up and you will have the weight of your lathe.  Or if you have 4 scales put one under each leg.


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## wa5cab

12.  We don't have an accurate figure for the actual weight of any of the lathes.  However, the Craftsman Power Tools catalogs do give the shipping weights.  The shipping weight of a complete (new) Craftsman 12x36 101.07403 is 290 lb.  That weight includes the weight of the wood crate it was shipped in, maybe 50 lb +/-, and the weight of the MOLO, the remaining 10 Change Gears that were shipped loose (not mounted on the lathe), and a few relatively light accessories that came with the basic lathe, probably no more than 5 or 10 lb.  The accessories are listed in any of the catalog ads.  And specifically which gears were shipped loose are shown as a stack of 10 gears on the same parts manual page as shows the headstock.

Note that the 10F is a little lighter than the 07403 because its height is 1" less than the 12", all of which is cast iron.

Commenting on mickri's suggestion of weighing each corner and adding them, the legs don't really lend themselves to doing that.  I wouldn't believe the results unless four scales were used.  However, a spacer block at one end and the scales at the other would. The actual weight would be the sum of the two readings.  And to answer the rental question, yes you should be able to rent a crane scale and if you don't have one, an engine hoist able to left the scale with the lathe attached to it.  But the flat (bathroom) scales and spacer method would give as good a result and be cheaper.


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## wa5cab

13. Sears seemed to cycle through various colors for each year.  I've never heard of anyone coming up with any accepted name for each color.  So if you want the replacement parts to be the same color as the original lathe parts (which is a reasonable wish), your only option is to have the color matched.  But it wouldn't hurt anything to ask the shop doing the matching to tell you the closest commercially available match, if any.


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## Superburban

Rustoleum makes a dark metallic grey, or metallic black (Can't remember the name), that is a close fit to the dark color that Sears used in the 80, but has a nice metallic touch to it. I've done a couple of tools with it, but the only pic I can find on this computer, is the air cleaner in my Ramcharger. Not a great pic, but you can get the idea. Check it out, you may like it.


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## pontiac428

ARC-170 said:


> I didn't even think about the spindles! DOH! I have several tang-style MT#3 tapers that fit. They are pretty rough on the surface; any way to clean them up?


I am sure somebody will read this and spit their breakfast cereal all over their screen. This is what I did, and I got good results. Tapers go in tight and come out easy now, and that was my objective. I bought a #2 and #3 Morse reamer, put it in the bore of the head/tailstock, supported the free end in center, and did my thing. It worked out well.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








(from mobile)


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## ARC-170

I have the two lathes I bought set up next to each other. I'm going to start removing parts from the "donor/old" machine and putting them on the "recipient/new" machine. The plan right now is to clean them just good enough for disassembly and re-assembly, then see if everything works, what is missing/needs fixing/etc, then take the machine apart (again) and do a thorough cleaning job and possibly a re-paint (the two machines are different colors). This may change as I go, however. 

TAILSTOCK
14. I removed the tail stock ram lock assembly (#M6-44, M6-45, 1/4-20 bolt) from the donor, but am having a hard time getting it to go on the recipient. It came off the donor easily enough, but It fits very tight on the recipient so it's really hard to rotate the lock sleeve and lock pieces to get them to line up so the ram can slide in. I'm guessing the new machine needs cleaning then lubing in that area. Is there anything I need to know or am missing?
15. What grease/oil is used on the lock sleeves and/or the bolt?
16. I was going to use machine oil on the ram. Is this correct?

CARRIAGE
17. Any trick to removing the carriage? I assume I remove the two large Phillips head screws on top and slide it off, but are there any tricks or anything I should know before I take it apart? I want to inspect the backside because I think the mitre gear (#10F-82A) is missing/broken on my machine. I found the part in a box so I made this assumption and want to confirm. The 10F-84 knob (engages screw feed, correct?) is also missing, so there may be more broken/missing parts when I take it apart.

And so it begins.


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## wa5cab

15.  Do not use grease on the tailstock ram lock parts.  Over time, it will harden and cause trouble (just as it will in the spindle bearings in the headstock).  Use the same SAE 20 ND or ISO 68 oil as used almost everywhere else on the lathe. 

14.  If the ram lock cylinders will not fit into the other tailstock, probably the surface of the hole has a coating of varnish due to years of drying out time of the oil that should be used there.  One solution would be to slit a length of 3/8" diameter drill rod, mount it in your drill press along with the tailstock (on the table) and slip about 1" of 400 or 600 grit wet-or-dry sand paper into the slit and spin that in the hole briefly.

16.  Yes, SAE 20 as most everywhere else on the lathe.

17.  The two large Phillips head screws attach the apron to the front of the saddle.  If you only want to remove the carriage from the bed, it is not necessary to remove the apron.  But it will reduce the weight somewhat.  Remove the carriage dovetail chip guard.  Crank the cross slide off the end of the cross feed screw and slide the cross slide off of the dovetail.  Slide the tailstock off the end of the bed.  Remove the lead screw and its right bearing. Crank the carriage off the end of the bed, catching the carriage gib if it falls out.  You may have to loosen the carriage gib somewhat if there is much wear on the rear of the rear way.  It may be just as well to go ahead and remove the carriage gib before sliding the carriage off of the bed.  If the carriage still goes tight near the end of the bed, loosen but do not remove the four screws attaching the front and rear bearing plates to the bottom of the carriage.  And yes on the 10F-84 Knob engaging the power cross feed.  Except that it seems to have been re-numbered as 441-060.


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## ARC-170

14. I cleaned the tailstock hole and all the pieces with Simple Green, a red Scotchbrite pad and a round brush and filed the burrs off and got the sleeves to fit without getting stuck. However, there are 2 different tail stocks. I pulled the locking assembly off the one on the bottom, but my lathe tailstock is shown on top. The hole is smaller on mine than the old one so I cannot stack the sleeves in the hole (it's a bigger diameter from the underside). They have the same part number on the castings. The parts diagram I have for my lathe shows a tailstock like the bottom one:



*I can either have just one sleeve, switch tailstocks, or shorten the sleeves. Thoughts?* I found some extra sleeves with my lathe that are the same length as the ones shown. My tailstock is in better condition cosmetically, but they both appear to be functional.

Here is the locking assembly showing the sleeves:



15-16. Noted. I used machine oil after cleaning these with Simple Green and a rag.

17. The Phillips heads would not budge. I sprayed penetrating oil on them a few days ago, too. I was able to get the carriage off as follows:
-Unscrew the leadscrew bearing bolts (the ones holding it to the bed on the right side) and remove the nut and washer on the end. 
-I removed the bolt holding the leadscrew drive gear on the left. 
-I gently tapped the bearing and the whole leadscrew came off. I discovered this by accident when I was trying to get just the bearing off. I wasn't able to get just the bearing off the leadscrew. It was probably better this way anyway since I would have had to support the leadscrew at one end.
This allowed me to slide off the carriage.


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## ARC-170

HEADSTOCK
18. I switched out the belt guards. While doing this, I oiled the bearings on both lathes. Mine still is "crunchy" and doesn't rotate smoothly. In fact, I can't get it to rotate at all. The oil all dripped out on the table. The other lathe runs really smooth and little or no oil dripped out. Am I looking at switching out the bearings of these two machines? Or should I buy new bearings? Thoughts?


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## wa5cab

18.  It's possible that some misguided soul packed the bearings with grease which over the years has hardened and is caked around the outer part of the bearings and is keeping oil from getting to them.  

14.  This is the first case that I've heard of where the hole for the ram locks is too small.  Or maybe you mean that the hole is too shallow.  Please measure the diameters or the depths of the two holes and report it here.


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## ARC-170

12. I'll try the scale method and see what I get. I'm afraid I might drop the lathe on the scale and break it, though. I might need a hanging scale anyway to weigh the parts from the donor lathe I'm going to try to sell.

13. The local auto paint store has auto paint only that is about $50 a quart. I might be able to get a pint, but that might not be enough. Rattle can paint is about $4/can. I might spay polyester primer/surfacer on the cast iron to seal it up and smooth it out, then spray color over that. A smoother finish will be easier to clean. I want to wait and see how many parts of each lathe I use before I decide on a color. I got blue, dark gray and aqua parts. *I'll probably want to dismantle the whole thing to paint it, but I hear that it is not a good idea to remove the headstock. Is this true?*

_14. This is the first case that I've heard of where the hole for the ram locks is too small. Or maybe you mean that the hole is too shallow. Please measure the diameters or the depths of the two holes and report it here. _

My report (I got homework?! What the...?)

Here's a rough, approximately to scale, sketch of a section view through the oil cup and locking sleeve holes showing the differences. The measurements are close, but not to 0.001". Mine is like "B". The donor lathe is like "A".


*Should I switch tailstocks? *I have a (small) milling machine so maybe I could bore out the hole to fit the sleeves.  This scares me; I don't have enough experience to get it perfect. I could also make the sleeves shorter in length. Thoughts? How would I determine which tailstock is better? Is the tailstock matched to the lathe?

18. So I have to take them out to clean the grease out or at least see what the issue is, correct?


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## wa5cab

14.  Wow!  When you wrote earlier that the hole for the tailstock ram lock in your Tailstock "B" was too small for the lock cylinders, I had no idea it was "REALLY" too small.  0.26" diameter!!!  I've forgotten whether you had answered this before.  Did the "B" tailstock have a pair of lock cylinders installed in it?

The earliest actual 10" parts list that we have found is on the 10E.  The 10E is a stripped down 10D with headstock, carriage, compound  and tailstock but with no back gears or threading capability.  We do not have an actual 10D parts list.  But the 10E list says that the tailstock is 10D-5.  10D-5 is also used on the 10F up through end of production in 1957.  This would seem to imply that your tailstock "B" is a 10-5.

I know that the tailstock spacer or riser block has or will have 10D-6 cast into it.  Does the actual "B" tailstock casting have a number cast into it?

As to whether or not you should switch tailstocks, I'm not yet sure.  But unless you make "B" look like "A", probably.

18.  Short answer is yes except that unless you are replacing it with a new one, it is not necessary to remove the right spindle bearing cone from the spindle.  And unless you are replacing either or both, it is not necessary to remove either spindle bearing cup from the headstock.  And it is not necessary to remove either of the inner spindle bearing dust covers.


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## ARC-170

14. It did not have a tailstock lock on it when I got it, but I found the sleeves in a box of parts that came with the lathe. The 1/4" bolt fits in the top hole, but there isn't enough space in the larger diameter area to fit the sleeves, unless they are shortened.

They are both 10D-6.

Is mine some rare/limited production/mistake? Can I sell it for $1,000,000,000! Ha! At this point the plan is to clean up both tailstocks and see which one is better. I'll wait and see if we get any more info about the small hole vs big hole.
-----------
I thought I'd ask before I attempted anything:

19. How do I pull the tailstock handwheel bearing out? Is it threaded or press fit? It would make it easier to clean and paint the tailstock if it was out. I could leave it in, I suppose, and used tape to cover it for painting.

20. Is detaching the base from the tailstock a big deal? Does it cause re-alignment issues when I re-assemble it?


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## wa5cab

14.  10D-6 is the base with the two backset adjust screws front and back.  The tailstock is only the casting that fits on the base.  Somewhere on it should be 10D-5 on the newer one and something else, maybe 10-5, on the older one.  If you decide to use the older one that the larger hole doesn't go through to the top, you should first either bore the hole through to the top or have someone else do it for you.  Unfortunately, although it may be quite rare, it ain't worth a bazillion dollars.  Sorry.  

19.  The tailstock feed screw bearing screws into the casting but after more than half a century it may be difficult to remove.  Soaking it in penetrating oil won't hurt and might help.

20.  Short answers are no and yes.  But the backset is one of the things that you would check before starting to use the lathe, anyway.  To separate the tailstock from the base, remove the two slotted screws.  Invert the assembly and soak the part of the tailstock that slides across the 10D-6 base in penetrating oil.  Periodically, tap on the side of the base with a wood or other nonmetallic mallet.  Eventually, it will come loose.  Once you get the lathe back together, one of the first things that you should do anyway is to check the back set of the tailstock compared to the spindle.  The MOLO has a paragraph on re-setting the backset to zero.  Basically, you mount a test bar between centers, cut a little on each end, and adjust the backset and repeat until the two diameters are the same.  Before you start whittling, you mount a dead center in spindle and ram and adjust the backset until the two appear to touch.  Then start with the test bar.


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## Superburban

The "A" tailstock, will have the two pieces you talk about. I have found that the inserts swell up, and do not fit. I just made replacements out of aluminum. You can either tap the bottom piece, or I like to mill a small square, and use a square nut. I like to also make room for a small spring, to help keeping one from jamming.

This is a pic I saved from somewhere, not the ones I did, but gives you the idea.



The "B" tailstock, will have the handle, and the lower piece, not a set of two. The nice thing, is there is plenty of room to put a spring in to help unlock the quill.

Either setup, is easy to make. Turn the stock to the right diameter, so it slides in the hole nicely. Bore the right size hole down the center. For the A version, cut the part in to 2 pieces. Then use a grinding wheel, sanding drum, or mill, to add the cutouts that lock onto the quill. Then either tap the lower piece, or mill a spot on the bottom for a nut (I like square ones). If nothing else, you could do it slowly with a dremel tool. When I got my first atlas 6", that was the first thing I did with the milling attachment.

A great beginner project. Worst case, you start over.


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## ARC-170

14. They both have the same numbers cast in on both parts: 10D-6 for the base and L4-5 for the tailstock. The only difference is the hole.

18. I've downloaded the instructions for removing the bearing on a 6" lathe. Will these work for a 12"? I could not find anything for 12" lathes. I tried keeping the search terms simple (for example "babbit" or "bearing" instead of "removing babbit bearings", only searching in the right place etc, and got nothin'.

19. It's been sprayed and soaked several times and it's still stuck. I even sprayed penetrating oil from the other side and in the little lube hole (seems odd that there's a lube port; unless the threads are much shorter, this port appears to lead to the threads). There is a 1/8" slot across the hole; should I make some sort of plate to put in there to put a wrench on? Might be better than using groove pliers (Channel-locks) and messing up the bearing. Anybody got any ideas for getting it out? I suppose I could just tape it off for painting.


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## ARC-170

Superburban said:


> The "A" tailstock, will have the two pieces you talk about. I have found that the inserts swell up, and do not fit. I just made replacements out of aluminum. You can either tap the bottom piece, or I like to mill a small square, and use a square nut. I like to also make room for a small spring, to help keeping one from jamming.
> 
> This is a pic I saved from somewhere, not the ones I did, but gives you the idea.
> View attachment 285863
> 
> 
> The "B" tailstock, will have the handle, and the lower piece, not a set of two. The nice thing, is there is plenty of room to put a spring in to help unlock the quill.
> 
> Either setup, is easy to make. Turn the stock to the right diameter, so it slides in the hole nicely. Bore the right size hole down the center. For the A version, cut the part in to 2 pieces. Then use a grinding wheel, sanding drum, or mill, to add the cutouts that lock onto the quill. Then either tap the lower piece, or mill a spot on the bottom for a nut (I like square ones). If nothing else, you could do it slowly with a dremel tool. When I got my first atlas 6", that was the first thing I did with the milling attachment.
> 
> A great beginner project. Worst case, you start over.



I thought I might just have the lower piece, but I was concerned that I needed two to have equal force on the ram when tight. Are you saying I could have just one sleeve and add a spring?

I could build this as you describe, then cut the two pieces shorter, too. I think they only need to be about 1/8"-3/16" shorter.

What did you mill the square hole with? A very small mill cutter (like 1/16" diameter)?


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## wa5cab

ARC-170 said:


> 14. They both have the same numbers cast in on both parts: 10D-6 for the base and L4-5 for the tailstock. The only difference is the hole.
> 
> 18. I've downloaded the instructions for removing the bearing on a 6" lathe. Will these work for a 12"? I could not find anything for 12" lathes. I tried keeping the search terms simple (for example "babbit" or "bearing" instead of "removing babbit bearings", only searching in the right place etc, and got nothin'.
> 
> 19. It's been sprayed and soaked several times and it's still stuck. I even sprayed penetrating oil from the other side and in the little lube hole (seems odd that there's a lube port; unless the threads are much shorter, this port appears to lead to the threads). There is a 1/8" slot across the hole; should I make some sort of plate to put in there to put a wrench on? Might be better than using groove pliers (Channel-locks) and messing up the bearing. Anybody got any ideas for getting it out? I suppose I could just tape it off for painting.



14:  Both bases being 10D-6 makes sense.  Both of the tailstocks being L4-5 doesn't.  But as I said before, you should take the B tailstock to someone and have the hole bored through and through to the same diameter as the bottom part of the hole.  Then if the lower lock is still stuck you can simply press it out.

18:  I don't know why "babbit" even came up.  The 101.07403 (and for that matter all four of the 101.0740x have Timken bearings.  The four 101.0738x and four 101.0736x all have babbit bearings.  In any case, when you go to Downloads, the first file at the top of the page as of a few minutes ago is the one that you want for an early 12" with Timken bearings.  It is titled "Atlas Tech Bulletin 12 Early Back Gear Instr.pdf".  Perhaps I should have changed the name.  However, to answer your actual question, Atlas didn't do a Tech Bulletin on the babbit bearing headstocks.  I don't know exactly when the Technical Bulletins on the headstocks were done but think late 1960's, by which time the babit bearing headstocks had been out of production for more than 20 years.  The back gear portion is essentially the same in the 10" and early 12".  The babbit bearings are covered adequately in the 1937 MOLO's.

19:  The oil hole in the top of the tailstock casting near the bearing is for the tailstock ram feed screw.  I will call Clausing next week to confirm this but have come to the conclusion that the 10D-30 bearing for the tailstock feed screw is pressed in.  And that the oil hole for the screw was drilled after assembly.  I had always assumed that it was threaded like the similar part on the saddle for the cross feed screw.  And the drawing of the part in the 10F late parts manual sorta looked like it was threaded.  But the similar drawing for the 3996 does not.  And as you have found, there is no good way in which to tighten or loosen it.


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## ARC-170

14. I got everything out. I just need to re-assemble it. I appear to have 3 choices:
A. bore out the hole and put both sleeves back in
B. leave as is and use just one sleeve
C. Leave as is and make new, shorter sleeves

18, Thanks, I found it. I was just using "babbit" as an example; I'm not sure what I typed. Sorry for the confusion. Still. as you told me in your PM, search is not very good.

19. Good to know it was drill thru after. Let's see if Clausing knows if it's threaded or pressed. It sure isn't budging.


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## wa5cab

The problems with using just one locking sleeve are that (a) the holding force will be reduced and (b) the consequence of wear are that when tightened, the ram will not only move toward the operator, which can be corrected for by a slight adjustment of the backset screws, but it will also lift, which cannot.


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## benjamin.willhoite

Hey ARC-170.  I also have a 12" craftsman deluxe metal lathe, 101.07403.  I got it home recently and started turning stuff.  I love it like mammaries.  I fitted it with a QCTP and just started using it.  I got it on craiglist and it had apparently been the much-loved tool of an old millright.  I am just sounding off. How is your lathe working now?


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## ARC-170

benjamin.willhoite said:


> Hey ARC-170.  I also have a 12" craftsman deluxe metal lathe, 101.07403.  I got it home recently and started turning stuff.  I love it like mammaries.  I fitted it with a QCTP and just started using it.  I got it on craiglist and it had apparently been the much-loved tool of an old millright.  I am just sounding off. How is your lathe working now?



We have the same model, then. What's the swing and length? Mine is a 12 x 24. Post a picture. I'm jealous of your QCTP.

It's still in pieces. The headstock bearings are frozen for now. I bought another lathe for the parts (it was a CL special, no motor, just the parts I needed), so I'm taking them both apart, cleaning them and making one good lathe. I'll sell the pieces I don't need.


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## ARC-170

#21. I'm trying to remove the spindle gear on the left of the headstock (#9-100-32). I got the collar off with a pipe wrench and a strap wrench on the back gear. It would appear the spindle gear is threaded on, but the instructions I downloaded stated to slide it off. I've tapped it with a piece of wood and it won't budge. However, it appear to have threads. Are the threads flush with the surface of the shaft? I realize it's been assembled for man many years, but it seems like it should come off easier.

In the image you can see the piece of wood and the gear. Sorry, it's a bit blurry.


While it soaks in penetrating oil, I thought I'd ask if there are any tricks to getting it off or if I'm missing something. Could I use another strap wrench on the gear and turn it? I figure if I turn it, I can also slide it off.


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## benjamin.willhoite

12x24 is about right for the working length.  I don't know if i get a full 12" swing, but it is close.  I have attached a pic.  I have a number of issues, including a complete lack of change gears-- i have two and two small spur gears-- just enough to have power feed/cross feed.  I was asked to make a ring this afternoon from aluminium,  so i included that pic too!


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## wa5cab

Jeff,

I hate to say this, but RTFM.  Both the exploded view parts list and the Atlas Technical Bulletin on the 10" headstock show a Woodruff key in the spindle to keep the gear from turning on the spindle.  Plus, if you have the collar off, you should be able to see that the gear has a keyway either cast or broached in it.  Make an aluminum or brass protector for the left end of the spindle by turning a piece of solid round of 1-1/4" or larger diameter down to 3/4" by about 1/2".  Slide that into the left end of the spindle and hit it with a dead blow hammer or a steel hammer and a piece of 2 by 4.

Or make a receiver for the right side of the headstock out of structural tubing with an ID just larger than the dust cover.  Make a thrust shoulder  washer of 1/2" steel plate with about a 25/32" ID and an OD about the same diameter as the tubing.  Run a length of 3/4" all thread through the shoulder washer, receiver, and spindle and put a flat washer and long nut on both ends.  Loosen the set screw in the bull gear, and tighten the nuts.


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## ARC-170

wa5cab said:


> Jeff,
> 
> I hate to say this, but RTFM.  Both the exploded view parts list and the Atlas Technical Bulletin on the 10" headstock show a Woodruff key in the spindle to keep the gear from turning on the spindle.  Plus, if you have the collar off, you should be able to see that the gear has a keyway either cast or broached in it.  Make an aluminum or brass protector for the left end of the spindle by turning a piece of solid round of 1-1/4" or larger diameter down to 3/4" by about 1/2".  Slide that into the left end of the spindle and hit it with a dead blow hammer or a steel hammer and a piece of 2 by 4.
> 
> Or make a receiver for the right side of the headstock out of structural tubing with an ID just larger than the dust cover.  Make a thrust shoulder  washer of 1/2" steel plate with about a 25/32" ID and an OD about the same diameter as the tubing.  Run a length of 3/4" all thread through the shoulder washer, receiver, and spindle and put a flat washer and long nut on both ends.  Loosen the set screw in the bull gear, and tighten the nuts.



I was tapping the spindle gear to the left (per the manual) with a piece of wood and it wasn't budging. The manual states it will slide off (ha!). I'm an idiot for not thinking about the woodruff key. Duh. I've loosened all the other set screws.
I even hit the spindle shaft to the right (I used wood over the metal) and got no movement. Am I not hitting it hard enough? I don't want to damage anything, but maybe I'm being too gentle.

I'm not sure I quite understand the other method you describe. Do you have a picture? However, it sounds like you are telling me I should make a device for allowing the spindle assy to "drop" onto when I dislodge it from the headstock? Or, the spindle shaft moves right when hit into this receiver? The manual states to put a broomstick handle in the spindle. Sounds like your telling me to do something fancier.
Thanks for the "direct" feedback. I appreciate the honesty.


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## ARC-170

benjamin.willhoite said:


> 12x24 is about right for the working length.  I don't know if i get a full 12" swing, but it is close.  I have attached a pic.  I have a number of issues, including a complete lack of change gears-- i have two and two small spur gears-- just enough to have power feed/cross feed.  I was asked to make a ring this afternoon from aluminium,  so i included that pic too!


Nice! What did you make it for?
Which QCTP do you have?
I see you have clamped your lathe to the table. How secure is that?
My lathe is this aqua green color I've not seen anywhere else. Yours appears to be gray. Do you know when yours was made?


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## ARC-170

21. So I went out to the garage and hit the spindle harder with a dead blow hammer and some wood. I seemed to have knocked something loose because it now turns freely, but has about 0.04" of axial play and one of the parts has moved left (I hit to the right).
	

		
			
		

		
	



A is the shaft. I hit this to the right.
B is the gear. It did not budge much, maybe a few thousands of an inch. I hit it hard about 20 times.
C is a spacer that has somehow moved to the left. It was inside part D before I hit the spindle. It appears to have moved about 0.04" or so. I'm not sure. I thought those ridges were threads but they appear to just be ridges.
I sprayed more penetrating oil between B and C. I'm hoping to get the gear loose.
I'm thinking I'm missing something. I re-read the manual and I think I'm doing it right but this isn't budging.


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## wa5cab

I cannot imagine why the gear "B" should be so firmly stuck.  I think that at this point I would resort to a gear puller.  Not atwo or three hook type but the type with the split plate that has two bolts connecting the plate halves.  Use a grinder with a stone about the same diameter as the Spacer "C".  Make the hole in the center of the split plates large enough that it will fully close around the Spacer.  Clamp it around the spacer and then assemble the rest of the puller to it.  Tighten the forcing screw against the shoulder disc whose pilot just fits into the hole through the spindle.  Re-tighten and hit it again.  Be aware that you can't pull the gear very far before the split plate will hit the key.  If the gear is still stuck at that point, you will have to disassemble the puller and grind a slot in the plate halves to clear the key.

You should be able to rent most of the puller parts but you will have to buy the split plate because they won't want it back after you modify it to fit around the spacer.


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## ARC-170

I thought of a puller, but I thought the gear teeth would get chipped if I used a puller. I didn't know they had another type. Good to know, thanks!

Is this the type of puller you're talking about:


On this silver one I would modify the rectangles to fully surround the gear, correct? It would look like two letter C's facing each other, right?


This blue one would need to have the inner diameter of the C shape be small enough to fit around the gear, correct? Seems like the rods would pull out on this design; are they welded/press fit/screwed in?

I also thought of fabricating one like this:


I would need to make parts A (aluminum block with threaded holes), B (slightly larger dia than spindle; pushes against spindle on lathe as screw is turned against it), and C (hole fits around over spacer, but not gear). I'd use bolts, nuts and threaded stock I could get at the store for the rest.

I didn't see too many of this type; the vast majority are the 2 and 3 prong ones. I'll check around and see if I can rent one.


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## wa5cab

Almost.  Except that the first and third tapped holes in the third one are slots like in your first one and the two studs are bolts or maybe all-thread with nuts on one end.  And the split disk would look like this except that you would grind the two arcs where the two halves join into two semi-circles.


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## ARC-170

So this is what I would get or rent:








						Bearing Separator and Puller Set
					

Amazing deals on this Bearing Separator And Puller Set at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.




					www.harborfreight.com
				



$48 (less 20%) to buy. I'll check my FLAPS this week on the way home from work.

I usually try to get nicer, made-in-the-USA tools, but if I'm going to break or "modify" them, HF is a good place.

I can get just the disc you show for $28 (less 20%) and use it on anything I rent, too.

Yes, I see my mistakes in the one I drew. The threaded rods need to be smooth so they slide. Duh. And the disc I drew would probably fail when pulled with much force. I thought maybe the washers would help support it, but not with the force needed to pull this off. I really need to stop thinking so late in the day!


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## wa5cab

OK.


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## ARC-170

#21. Well, the left gear came off very easily. I used a puller and cranked it by hand. There seems to be some sticky varnish (it's almost like glue) on the shaft that made it difficult to remove.
However, I cannot get the spindle to budge. All the set screws are out. I soaked it in penetrating oil. I hit it with a dead blow hammer hard. Nothin'. Here are some images. Anyone see anything that would cause this to stay stuck?


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## wa5cab

First, I would remove the countershaft and the back gears.  They don't absolutely have to come off at this point but if you go ahead and remove them, they won't be in the way and they have to come off anyway to get the spindle belt on as you reassemble the headstock.

Second, confirm that the bull gear, spindle cone pulley, small spindle gear and collar are free to move a little ways toward the right.  In other words, that they are all free on the spindle.  Also, pull out the direct drive pin if you haven't already.

Third, I would do what I suggested to start with which is get a piece of mechanical tubing with an ID just larger than the right hand dust cover and of a length approximately as long as the distance from the right end of the spindle to the face of the bull gear, or the distance between the collar and the left end of the spindle, whichever is greater.  Plus a shoulder washer about 1/2" or more thick to fit the right end of the mechanical tubing and one to fit the left end of the spindle.  Plus a length of 3/4" dia. all-thread with two nuts and two standard flat washers.

Assemble all of this on the headstock, oil or grease the threads, rotate the spindle so that the key and key way in the bull gear are at about TDC, and tighten the nuts as tight as you can get them with standard wrenches.  If this doesn't start the spindle moving, with paddle bits, drill a flat bottom hole in a piece of 4 by 4 just large enough to fit over the nut and shoulder washer and threads on the left end of the spindle and deep enough that the 4 by 4 chunk will sit there without having to hold it.  Hit this with the largest hammer that you have.  Once the spindle starts moving, remember not to pull the Woodruff key too far and into the inner dust cover before you start trying to grab it with pliers and remove it.  Also, shortly after the spindle starts moving, it will get a little harder to move as the right spindle bearing cone starts forcing the right dust cover out ahead of it.  And except while you are fighting to get the Woodruff key out, keep two wood wedges between the bull gear and the headstock casting to prevent chipping the teeth on the casting.

Maybe that will work.


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## ARC-170

Robert:

I drew a sketch to make sure I understand your idea:


The tube needs to have an ID of at least 3-1/16" to clear the dust cover. This will be hard to find at a big box store. I can look elsewhere, though.
The right cover (not labelled on this sketch, but it's the piece shown between the washer and the tube on the right) would be really big; I might just make a plate.
This is essentially a puller, right? I would rotate right nut and it would move the spindle out by pulling the threaded rod to the right, correct?


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## wa5cab

That is mostly correct, except for the following:

1)  Both washers need to have a shoulder turned on them that is a slip fit inside the spindle on the left and the tube on the right. 

2)  The OD of the left washer should be just a few thou smaller than the diameter of the spindle threads JIC the left bearing cone is still tight after getting it as far as the threads.

3)  The tube doesn't need to be that long.  It does not have to hold the entire spindle

Forget big box stores.  You can get everything that you need from McMaster.com.  The hardest parts to make are the two shoulder washers.  I bought a short piece of I think 3/4" x either 3-1/2" or 4" mild steel flat bar.  With it sitting on a piece of wood in the vise on my drill press, I used a hole saw first to make it round.  The wood was to keep the pilot drill in the hole saw from hitting the clamping screw in my vise.  After making them round, I mounted them in the three-jaw on the lathe and drilled a center hole to fit over the screw.  Then I made an arbor out of a piece of scrap round stock I had, mounted the washers on it (one at a time, of course), cleaned up the OD and cut the shoulders.  As I've never been able to get my cutoff saw to cut square, I had to put the tubing in the 3-jaw and square up the ends.

The nuts that you should buy are called I think Coupling Nut.  They are about twice as long as a regular hex nut, or a little more.  Normally used to make a longer stud out of two shorter ones.


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## ARC-170

I got some tubing that will work. I also got some 3/4" threaded rod, nuts and washers.

1-2. How critical are the shoulder washers? I have some 1/4" steel plate I was going to drill a 3/4" hole in for the threaded stock and just mount on the ends. Does the shoulder keep it from slipping? I think I can make some shoulder washers at work if they are absolutely necessary. I also thought of using a hole saw to make a round, recessed ring on the plates for the spindle ends to seat in.

3. How critical is it that the ends of the tube be perfectly square? I got a piece of scrap from work. It's about 9" long. One end is fairly square, but the other is a bit off. I can grind it down and sand it on a wide belt sander to get it fairly square.

I was hoping that once I broke loose the spindle, I could use a hammer to get it out the rest of the way. I'm thinking it's just stuck and needs some "persuasion" to get it to move. Although, the hammer didn't work...


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## wa5cab

1-2.  1/4" plate might be heavy enough to work for the left hand washer but is probably too light for the larger right hand one.  You might get away with using two or three layers on the right hand one.  I would glue them together so that you can handle it as one piece.  The shoulders on the two washers aren't absolutely critical.  In fact, as you are using 3/4" threaded rod,  probably not necessary on the left end, although it would center up the rod.  But without it on the right end, it will probably take two people to get everything in place.

3.  It is pretty important that the ends of the tube be square, important enough that I would recommend you take the piece of scrap somewhere and have the ends squared up.

Once you get the spindle moving, you could go back to using a hammer.  But I don't know why you would want to.  The wrenches on the nuts give you much better control which may be fairly critical when it comes to getting the Woodruff key out without damaging the right hand inner dust cover.


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## ARC-170

21. I got it! Here's a picture of the setup (minus the two wrenches I used to turn the nuts):



It pulled off really well, even without squaring up the ends of the big tube. I used a wood rod to hit it out the rest of the way when the left side bottomed out (I just used a square piece of 1/4" thick steel plate that was too big to fit thru the hole). Once it broke loose it came off fairly easily.

22. Is the spindle is good condition? How do I get the bearing off? How do I clean/service these before re-assembly?



23. Is this bearing race in good condition? It feels really smooth. These are the same bearing race from the right side of the lathe. The left image is after cleaning the goop out, the right image is before cleaning with the dust cover attached (the previous owner added a notch!).




24. How do I pull this bearing out? This is the one on the left. Use the same tool I used for the spindle?


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## wa5cab

24.  No, the ID of the inner dust cover is too close to the ID of the smaller cone for you to be able to pull with something inserted from the right. Especially as you don't have a working lathe with which to make the part.  The thing remaining to be pulled is the outer dust cover.  Here I would probably use a slide hammer puller with a small three-jaw puller screwed onto the end to hook behind the bearing cone's inner race.  That would be better than hooking it behind the inner side of the outer dust cover as the latter method would deform the dust cover.  You should be able to rent one of those for a day or two.


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## ARC-170

#22 and #23. Are these in decent condition? Anyone have any input or know where I can find out? Should I take them to a local shop and ask?

#24. Got it out! Made a smaller puller to get the dust cover off, then used the original puller to get the bearing out. Funny how these won't budge when hit with a hammer, but come out real easy when gently pulled.


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## wa5cab

22 & 23.  Just judging from the photos, they seem to be OK.  But it would probably be wise to have someone local take a closer look at them.

22.  Unless you are replacing it with a new cone, there is no reason to remove the larger cone from the spindle.  If you do have to remove it for replacement, get a piece of tubing with an ID just large enough to slide over the register flange and use the threaded rod and other pieces to pull it,  You may damage the cage in the process so don't pull it if you are going to reuse it.

22.  Clean up with Varsol or equivalent solvent.  As soon as it's clean, squirt some SAE 20 ND on the bearing and turn the cage and rollers by hand to distribute the oil.  Do not dry the Varsol by directing HP air at the cage and rollers.  Shake it off and after a few minutes start applying the oil.


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## ARC-170

#3 (Yes, number 3). for those of you following along or researching cleaning your machine, I found a description of the difference between  Varsol, Mineral Spirits and Paint Thinner on a wood working website (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread...difference&s=a506e8205da690d050bc60b3b820fdae ):

_Mineral spirits is a distillate of petroleum. It's a hydrocarbon. Naphtha is also a similar distillate, but is lighter in molecular weight. Paint thinner is a catch all that can include these solvents mixed with others. Why mix? The key is that mineral spirits and naphtha are HYDROCARBONS. They are good solvents for things that are also oil based, but for products that contain materials that are not similar chemically, they won't dissolve that well. So, paint thinner might dissolve a wider array of things than the other two. It's cheaper generally because there's no standard formula, so mfg's have latitude about how to make it.

Varsol, Isopar, and other names are usually proprietary names from companies like Shell or Exxon to indicate precise fractions of the distillate; it just means a tighter bound on the molecular weight of the chemical in the jar, and hence a 'purer' product. In the case of Isopar, there are a bunch of letter grades depending on the weight you want. For us ww'ers, this means you pay a little more for something that provides no practical value. But for cosmetic or other companies, this purity may be useful for them.

Mineral OIL is just a heavy distillate of the very same material as Mineral Spirits. It's so heavy, though, it doesn't evaporate, which is why they use it as a 'finish' on things like cutting boards. _

Thought I'd pass it along. I have found it very confusing when trying to find what is a good solvent to clean a greasy machine with, not to mention what other cleaners will also work.


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## ARC-170

*HEADSTOCK REMOVAL*
25. I'd like to take the headstock off the ways and thoroughly clean and paint it and the ways (easier to do in pieces), but my research indicates it is not an easy task to realign it. Found something called "Rollie's Dad's Method of Lathe Alignment". Anything else out there I can look at? Anything I should know about re-aligning it before I take it off? The MOLO didn't have anything.

I think I need to check the headstock alignment anyway, but maybe it's better to check it BEFORE I take it apart; if it's fine, then maybe leave it alone and try to paint the machine assembled? Thoughts?

I've heard it isn't an easy task to re-align the headstock to the ways, but it sounds interesting and challenging. I just want to make sure I'm not getting in too far over my head, or asking for trouble. I have a machinist's level (it was my grandpa's) for the ways, which I plan to use when setting up the machine once it's cleaned.


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## wa5cab

At least as I recall it, back in the day, Varsol (the word or name) had become a catch-all name to mean any of several slightly different solvents commonly used for parts cleaning.  Another less common one that was also used as a generic name was Stoddard Solvent.


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## wa5cab

25.  I have never actually done a headstock removal but I did sell the 54" bed off of a Craftsman Commercial to someone who wanted to convert his 12 x 24 to a 12 x 36 and he had no particular issue with removing the headstock.  So it wan't a press fit.  Beyond that, I don't know how tightly they  fit between the ways.  I would suggest not removing the headstock casting unless there is some good reason to do so.  If you do remove it, I would have a pair of studs or 2" to 3" long lengths of All-Thread to screw into the two positioning screw holes to set the left-right position.  If, after fully seating the casting between the ways, the studs are not free turning in the tapped holes, move the casting left or right until they are.  Then remove them and immediately install the two screws.  You will have to reassemble the headstock before you can use any method that I know of to check the angular alignment.


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## ARC-170

*SPINDLE BEARINGS*
22-23. I took these to the head of the adult school machine shop and he told me they looked fantastic for being 75 years old. He told me they looked like they didn't have much wear, either.  The stains are from the grease just sitting there for many years. The bearing races are smooth. The surface of the spindle is as well. I soaked the spindle bearings with kerosene and wire-brushed by hand the dried grease/oil. I used compressed air to blow out the debris. I did this about 3 times. Next I'm going to oil them up and reinstall them.

*HEADSTOCK REMOVAL*
25. I decided to take the headstock off my "donor" lathe, since I want to part it out. It was pretty straightforward. I loosened the two screws at the back and the main one in front, tapped the headstock with a mallet ( there was wood between the mallet and the headstock) and it came right off. The ways and bottom of the headstock are machined, and there is little or no play.

I think for now I will leave the headstock on my lathe. I want to assemble it and make sure everything works before taking it apart to paint it.

*OBSERVATION OF INTEREST (TO ME ANYWAY)*
26. The bracket (part #L3-58M), looks like it broke and was welded. As you can see on the long slot, there are welds at either end. The donor lathe has a good one, so I'll use that. Thought maybe I'd file and machine the slot on this one at some point.


When I took the carriage off, it had some different hardware and the miter gears looked like they had been replaced (I found a broken one with a bunch of parts). I also found a broken bearing (the one that goes on the right side) for the lead screw. I think this lathe might have been "crashed", then repaired. Everything else looks fine.

Also, the paint appears to be not original. I found some blue paint under the bearing covers on the headstock and a little trace under some other parts when I scraped them. I find it interesting that the green paint is over the welds as well. I've not found blue paint anywhere else, though, even under parts that could be moved, but maybe weren't if this was painted by someone too lazy or in a hurry. If this was re-painted, whoever did it, did a thorough job. The color really doesn't seem like it was done in 1944; the metallic-ish green is more 1970's to me. I think I've seen pictures and posts that have this machine being a dark blue.


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## wa5cab

22-23.  Sounds good.  Do NOT apply grease to the bearings prior to re-assembly.  It will eventually harden and Murphy says that it will harden in such a position as to prevent oil from the oil cups from getting into the bearings.

26.  Yes, I would use the unbroken change gear bracket from the donor.

COLOR.  AFAIK, Atlas on their 6", 9" and 10" used only dark machinery gray from the beginning until sometime in the 1950's when they changed to machinery gray.  The only other color that they used AFAIK was an irritating blue on the 10100 and 10200 MK-2 6".  Sears, on the other hand, used too many different colors to keep up with, up until 1957 when they also changed to machinery gray.  They remained machinery gray until production stopped in 1974 on their 6" and in 1981 on both Atlas and Craftsman 12".


----------



## ARC-170

*COUNTERSHAFT DISASSEMBLY*
27. Having  a hard time getting the two pulleys off the countershaft. I've loosened all the set screws on them and the collars and can turn the shaft using the bigger pulley about 15 degrees either way; it won't turn anymore then that. There's a key in the smaller pulley that I cannot see, but can see the keyway. Could the smaller pulley just be stuck? I've got it soaking in penetrating oil for now. I tried hitting the shaft with a wood dowel and hammer and it didn't budge.



*RIVET/NAMEPLATE SCREW REMOVAL*
28. Is there a trick to getting these off? I've seen nameplates for sale with what appear to be original screws. I thought I'd try visegrips, but thought I'd ask before I attempted anything. I'd like to take off some of the nameplates at some point so I can paint the piece they are attached to. I don't care for the "taped off" look.


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## wa5cab

Most of the Atlas nameplates that I have seen or seen photos of are affixed with what are called "drive screws".  They can be identified by having a round head with no screwdriver slot.  They also look like the head of a round-head rivet, but you won't find the peened end on the inside.  If you are lucky, the hole that they are driven into will have been drilled through.  These can be driven back out with either a pin punch or a short piece of drill rod which are small enough to be a slip fit into the hole.

If the hole was not drilled through, your only options are don't remove the plate or drill them out.  The latter choice is easier said than done, especially on the end of the bed which probably can't be gotten onto a drill press.  If you do attempt it and are successful, you can buy new drive screws from places like McMaster.com.  Pray for them being drilled through.

I'll ask you to do one thing.  Don't remove them and then lose interest in the project.  There are far to many examples of that around.


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## WCraig

No personal experience, but another option to remove drive screws is to use a Dremel cutting tool and fashion a slot in the head of the screw.  Then use a standard slotted screwdriver to get them moving.  I agree that tapping them out from the back is preferred.

Craig


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## ARC-170

27. I gave up trying to get off the pulley and big pulleys on the countershaft. I tried a puller, but this just bent the pulley a little.  The smaller pulley moved a little. I decided I'd like to get the machine running for now, make sure everything works, then paint it at some point. I bought it to make chips! So, I cleaned it with Simple Green, wiped off the oil and put it back on the machine. I will lube it next.

28. I was going to try the make-a-slot-with-a-Dremel, but thought I's see if there was another way. I think I'll leave them on for now.

*BACKGEAR DISASSEMBLY*
29. I'm having a hard time figuring out how to take apart the back gear. I can get the right bracket (green part on right, L4-245L) off real easy. It looks like everything is press-fit together, so what do I pull or push apart first? I loosened all the set screws and then tried to move the gears, but they wouldn't budge. I'm not sure I want to use a puller on Zamak. 
I may just clean this up and re-install it, but I wanted to at least ask so I'd know.

30. Also, there were shims on the brackets. I saved them and know which ones go on which side. What are these for? Aligning the shafts of the main spindle and back gear? How critical is this and how do I tell if they are good? Does the MOLO have anything?


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## wa5cab

29.  As a general rule, back gear isn't engaged too often.  However many operating hours are on the machine, probably no more than 5% were in back gear on most machines.  Oil the eccentrics and the shaft and bushings and confirm that everything moves freely without much slop.  And put the thing back on the headstock.

None of either the 10" or the 12" drawings actually show them but the headstock section view drawing in the MOLO does show them.  The shaft is pinned to the eccentrics.  Most of the 6" parts drawings show this, with a 1/8" roll pin at the handle end and a 1/8" taper pin at the other end.  If you can, you might easure the diameter and length.  Late in life, Atlas did do Technical Bulletins on disassembly and assembly of the headstocks.  These are all available in Downloads.  Although the section view of the headstock and back gears do not show the roll pin at the handle end, they do show the groove pin at the other end.

30.  The MOLO unfortunately does not mention back gear lash and neither do the technical bulletins.  However, the four back gears are similar to the change gears, where it is mentioned.  The purpose of the shims under the two back gear mounting brackets is to adjust the gear lash.  As with the change gears, use a strip of heavy brown wrapping paper or 24 pound bond printer/copier paper for the adjustment.  Cut a strip of paper about an inch wide.  Pull out the Direct Drive Pin and engage back gear.  While turning the spindle, feed the paper strip into each back gear pair, one at a time.  With the paper between the gear teeth, rock the gears back and forth, watching the relative motion between the back gear and its mating spindle gear.  Make this test about every inch of circumference of the larger gear.  If there is obvious relative motion between the two gears, repeat with the other pair.  Assuming that both gear pairs had about the same lash all of the way around, remove the paper, remove the back gear assembly, remove one 0.002" shim from each pack, reassemble and repeat the test.  If there is still obvious gear lash, remove a 0.003" shim from each side and reinstall the 0.002" ones.  Repeat the tests until there is a noticeable drag when feeding the paper strip into either pair.  Remove the paper and confirm that the pair has just discernible gear lash all of the way around.  Color that one done and continue with the other pair.


----------



## WCraig

wa5cab said:


> 30. The MOLO unfortunately does not mention back gear lash [...]


Merely clicking the "Like" button is really insufficient for expressing how much I appreciate your clear and detailed instructions on all manner of Atlas-related questions.  So very well done!

If you ever find yourself on the west side of Toronto, I would be most happy to supply an adult beverage of your choosing.  Or two!  

Thanks,

Craig


----------



## wa5cab

Thanks.  About three lifetimes ago, I used to go to Scarborough fairly frequently.  But times change.


----------



## ARC-170

29. I cleaned it and put it back on. I'm waiting to oil everything at once.

30. Thanks. I'll re-install them and get them adjusted.

I agree with Craig ("WCraig"); thanks doesn't begin to show my appreciation. On all the other forums for my other hobbies/obsessions, I get about 20 experts giving my questionable advice and one or two with the answer I'm looking for. Robert, you're the only one who responds on this forum (does no one else have anything to say?!) and your advice is detailed and very helpful.

My hope and purpose for doing this thread is to help others. I don't normally toot my own horn ("Hey, look at me restore my lathe!"), but it occurred to me that this would help others doing the same thing. I read a lot of these myself and find them helpful. Thought I'd return the favor.

*MOTOR*
31. I cleaned up the motor. I found a bunch of bases for it.


Upper right and lower right don't fit anything. Anyone know what they might fit?
Lower left appears to be a correct one, but the motor would sit a bit lower and it's not quite wide enough for the existing motor. I'll keep this one.

Motor label:


Here's the writing:
660017
PT. NO. 84973
MODEL G-553
SKC49PR31CS
HP: 1/2     E25382
RPM: 1725/1140/850
V: 115
CY: 60
A: 82/75/72
CODE: J AKR52
PC: 8810M
RISE: 70  degrees C. CONT.
DATE: 404

It appears to be a 3-speed motor (there are several stickers on it that have that written on it). When I got it, the homemade switch plate had "forward", "reverse" and "stop" labelled.

I plan on getting a linkbelt so I can change it easily.

There are 4 tabs to connect wires to:
GY-P
W
BU
OR

I need to get a new cord and plug.
What goes where? The ground wire screws into the motor housing, so that's one wire solved.  When I got the lathe, the motor ran, but I needed to unplug it to make the whole assembly lighter so we could load and unload it. I didn't note what wires went where at the time.
This appears to be a replacement motor, so I'm not sure a wiring diagram would help. I just need to know what the letters above mean (colors?) and then I think I can connect it to a switch.
I have the old wires and might be able to solve the puzzle.
Also, if it's a 3-speed motor I'd like to wire it as such; it was wired for forward, reverse and stop when I got it, so using the existing wires as a guide might not help.
How much damage can I do hooking it up wrong?


----------



## wa5cab

ARC-170 said:


> Motor label:
> 
> There are 4 tabs to connect wires to:
> GY-P
> W
> BU
> OR



I've no idea what the -P if for.  The rest of it is color abbreviations - GY = Gray, W = White, BU = Blue and OR = Orange.  As to what they mean, your guess is as good as mine.  I know of no generally accepted color code for motor wiring.  If those are the only places to connect wires and if when received, you were able to run and reverse the motor, then two of the tabs go to the run windings and the other two go to the start circuit.  To ID what's what, you need an ohmmeter, preferably an analog one.  To ID the function of each tab, connect the ohmmeter to one terminal and touch the other probe to the other three one at a time.  You should get needle movement on only one of the three.  If the ohmmeter reading is steady and showing something near to but not quite zero, those two are the run windings.  If the needle jumps toward zero but immediately starts to climb back toward infinity, those are the start winding.  Confirm that the other two show the opposite response to the first two.  

And, with only four terminals, it is not a three-speed motor.


----------



## ARC-170

31. I thought it was a 3-speed motor because it has 3 RPM speeds on the label: 1725/1140/850. In any case, I got it hooked up and working on the first try! I made a lucky guess based on the wear marks on the spades and the colors of the wires. It is hooked up for two speeds, not reverse and forward as I originally thought. Here is the wiring diagram.



Here's a close-up of the connections on the motor. It looks like there are 2 connectors for white (W1, W2). Maybe the 5th connector for the 3rd speed? W1 has a pool of solder and no spade. W2 has a spade.



I could not find much of anything on the internet on this particular motor. I searched for the part number, model number, the GE website (I read that it might be a GE motor), 1/2 HP motors in general, etc. All the wiring diagrams assumed you knew what each of the leads was for, and there is no standard. I just assumed white was the neutral and I found in my research that the colored ones were usually for the various speeds. The ground looked like it had been screwed into, so I just used that hole.

*WIRING HARNESS*
32. I think I will make a wiring harness. I need one of the 3 wires from the power cord to be longer than the other two, then a set of two wires from the switch back to the motor. I can use the correct colors as well. This is the existing set-up. It's just 3-wire 16 gage wiring. The wires that are not used are just cut off.


----------



## ARC-170

*BRACKET REPAIR*
33. The bracket that holds the belt guard in place (#L6-721) has a broken attachment point. I can't weld, so I thought I'd fix it as shown. I'd use epoxy in the joint itself (maybe try it without it first), drill and tap some holes for small screws, then fabricate a small metal strip. Thoughts?


I might be able to take it to work and ask if the welding teacher can fix it, but he's really busy and takes forever (took him 6 months for the last one).


----------



## TonimusMaximus

I would grind the mating surfaces kinda flat, drill and tap for a stud and just screw the two pieces together. Can't really tell from the picture how much meat is there.


----------



## wa5cab

33.  Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and pay someone who knows what they are doing to fix something.  That is what I would do .


----------



## wa5cab

33.  Well, mystery solved.  It isn't reversible.  When you said earlier that some of the writing indicated it was a multi-speed motor, I thought you were talking about hand writing.  And knowing that there is no good reason to put a multi-speed motor on an Atlas lathe that already has 16 speeds, I made a false assumption.  Sorry.

However, I would consider #16 AWG to be too light for the application.  And would replace it all with 14 AWG


----------



## ARC-170

*WIRING HARNESS REVISITED*
I also posted this particular question in the electrical section. Let me know if that's not okay. I thought it might attract more attention there. I also wanted to put it here for reference. 

32. As I was looking at this more closely before putting a new power cord and wiring (#16 AWG) on the lathe, I noticed the wiring from the power cord just hooks up directly to the contacts on the motor. It just hangs there, putting a constant strain on the contacts. It appears the plate that covered this area is missing. I'd like to wire this up so the power cord comes in to some sort of junction box/terminal box, then out to the motor and switch.

In the image, the wire with the red terminal and the white wire at top are from the power cord. The wire hooked to the twist connect is to the switch and the other wires come from the switch. The original owner just used power cord for all the wires, so there are extra wires.





I thought I might place a household j-box under the motor. I can't just make a plate to cover the wiring area on the motor because the wires and connectors stick up too far.

Does anyone have pictures of what their machine's electrical hook-ups look like I could use for reference? Any suggestions as to what a solution could be? Thanks! 

*BRACKET REPAIR*
33. Looks like I'll need to find a welder. I only hesitate because it's such a small job. I'm going to try and take the part to the industrial area of town and see if cash will convince someone to help me out.


----------



## ARC-170

32. Here's my solution:


I got a box at Fry's Electronics that was nicer than the household ones at the home improvement stores. It has a cover; I left it off for the pictures. I also got a long length of heat shrink tubing. I then got some colored wire and wire clamps at Home Depot. The power cord comes in from the right. The wires for the switch go out the left to the headstock. The wires on the top go to the motor. I may re-do the motor wires with some heat shrink so everything looks the same and nice and tidy.

The box is attached to the motor bracket with a screw and plate. I didn't drill any holes on the motor bracket; there's a hole in it already.

I went to a local motor shop and they didn't have a cover. We tried about 10 different ones. I was going to make one, but came up with the solution shown.

I looked into right angle connectors, but once I came up with this, I didn't think I'd need them anymore. Also, the orientation and location of the tabs is such that the wires would still have to bend a bit tight to get out if I put a cover on this.


----------



## ARC-170

wa5cab said:


> 33.  Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and pay someone who knows what they are doing to fix something.  That is what I would do .



I paid a local welder $45 to fix it. Took about 15 minutes. Apparently, cast iron welding rods aint cheap.


----------



## wa5cab

Good deal.  That's still probably less than a used replacement would have cost you.


----------



## ARC-170

*SPINDLE RE-ASSEMBLY*
34. How is this done?! I cannot get the Woodruff key AND bull gear pulley, small gear and collar on at the same time. There is not enough room to move the spindle far enough to the right to allow space to get the rest of the parts on it because the key needs to be in place and it hits the dust cover. None of the parts on the spindle fit thru the holes in the head stock.  I can't put the key in the slot, then insert the spindle thru the right hole, either because the hole in the dust cover doesn't have enough clearance (it's about 0.06" too small). I remember the key just sort of coming out, but I cannot seem to get it to go back in. I've tried tapping it in as I push the gear. Is there some trick to this? How was this assembled when new? The instructions for removing it just say to reverse the process. Maybe I need another set of hands?

The previous owner cut a notch in the dust cover. I bought another one without the notch, but I see why this was done. The donor lathe I have doesn't even have a dust cover on the inside right bearing hole. Again, I can see why.


----------



## wa5cab

Try with everything on the spindle (including the collar that is to the left of the small spindle gear) pushed as far to the left as they will go.  And with the keyway in the bull gear and the spindle keyway at 12:00 o'clock.  Move the spindle back to the right from where it is in your photo.  Hold one end of the key with longnose pliers or etc and stick the other end into the keyway in the spindle.  With a hardwood or soft aluminum stick, try to force the key down and rotate it 90 degrees as you tap it down into the spindle keyway and to the rear up under the keyway in the bull gear.  The inner dust covers must both be in place, along with the bearing cones, before you start.


----------



## ARC-170

34. Got it! I was overthinking it and trying too hard. I put all the parts on the shaft and installed the dust covers, then put the key in the slot so the right side was sticking up. As I tapped the shaft in, and pushed the key with my finger, it just slid right in. I was just practicing for doing it with pliers, but it just went right in. Everything just barely fits, but it will go in.

The hard part was figuring out how to get the collar on the left against the shoulder on the shaft. I made a wood spacer (u-shaped) to go between the collar and the left dust cover. As I tapped the shaft it pushed the collar against the dust cover, seating them both.


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  Glad that one came out good.


----------



## ARC-170

*SPINDLE ALIGNMENT*
35. In the process of reassembling the spindle and gears on the head stock, I noticed they are not aligned. What is critical to have aligned, and what is not critical?



Here's what I can and can't move:
I can move spindle A and pulley A.
I can't move spindle B much, maybe 1/16", same with gears A and B on it. 
I can align the gears on spindle B to spindle C, but not perfectly; they are maybe 1/16" off. If the gears are aligned, the belt is not and vice versa.
Spindle C is pretty much set, but I can move gears C and D and pulley B.

How far off can the belt be mis-aligned?


----------



## wa5cab

First, follow the instructions in the Technical Bulletin in Downloads to preload the spindle bearings (if you haven't already).

Slack the belts and pull out the direct drive pin.

Then check that the collar to the left of gear "C" is up against the shoulder in the spindle between the collar and the gear.

Check that the spindle pulley "B" has around 0.005" end float and turns freely.  Adjust the position of the bull gear "D" if necessary.

Engage back gear and if there is  mis-alignment between each pair of gears, move the back gears if you can to achieve this or the best compromise.  

If the countershaft cone pulley "A" isn't lined up with spindle cone pulley "B" and if you can, move pulley "A" to achieve this.

Check that the motor pulley and the large 2-step countershaft pulley are aligned.  If necessary, move the motor pulley.

If you haven't already, lubricate the countershaft and the spindle pulley "B".

Disengage back gear, push in the direct drive pin, and tighten the belts.


----------



## ARC-170

*SPINDLE ALIGNMENT (CONT.)*
35.


wa5cab said:


> A. First, follow the instructions in the Technical Bulletin in Downloads to preload the spindle bearings (if you haven't already).
> 
> B. Slack the belts and pull out the direct drive pin.
> 
> C. Then check that the collar to the left of gear "C" is up against the shoulder in the spindle between the collar and the gear.
> 
> D. Check that the spindle pulley "B" has around 0.005" end float and turns freely.  Adjust the position of the bull gear "D" if necessary.
> 
> E. Engage back gear and if there is mis-alignment between each pair of gears, move the back gears if you can to achieve this or the best compromise.
> 
> F. If the countershaft cone pulley "A" isn't lined up with spindle cone pulley "B" and if you can, move pulley "A" to achieve this.
> 
> G. Check that the motor pulley and the large 2-step countershaft pulley are aligned.  If necessary, move the motor pulley.
> 
> H. If you haven't already, lubricate the countershaft and the spindle pulley "B".
> 
> I. Disengage back gear, push in the direct drive pin, and tighten the belts.



A. Done.
B. Done.
C. Done.
D. Done.
E. I did this and got it to where I think it's good enough.
F. How mis-aligned can these be? Is it okay for the belt to track a little off?
G. Done.
H. In progress. I want to get everything lined up before I lube.
I. Will do once I get everything else lined up.

Here is everything lined up. I still need to move over the big pulley on the left to close the gap between it and the mounting bracket.



However, the motor spindle (spindle A) does not go all the way thru the hole in the bracket as shown is this image. Is this a problem, or can I leave it?


----------



## Jason280

I need to catch up with this thread, but what type of pulley are you using?  I'm assuming its one you can change without disassembling the headstock?


----------



## ARC-170

Jason280 said:


> I need to catch up with this thread, but what type of pulley are you using?  I'm assuming its one you can change without disassembling the headstock?



Do you mean pulley belt? I'm using a link belt I got at Harbor Freight. I thought I'd try it out. I wanted one I could change with taking the spindle off. It was a real pain!


----------



## Jason280

Interesting, I didn't realize they sold them at HF....I was just in there yesterday picking up a 1/2 HP motor for my Craftsman 12" lathe.


----------



## ARC-170

Jason280 said:


> Interesting, I didn't realize they sold them at HF....I was just in there yesterday picking up a 1/2 HP motor for my Craftsman 12" lathe.



It's called a "vibration free link belt". They are about $35 less the 20% off with coupon.

https://www.harborfreight.com/vibration-free-link-belt-43771.html 

The red ones (that HF copied) are $14 a foot at Rocklers. I got about 5 ft at HF (about $6/ft). I needed two belts for my lathe, though. One didn't have quite enough.


----------



## Jason280

5' should be plenty long for the main belt, though.


----------



## ARC-170

Jason280 said:


> 5' should be plenty long for the main belt, though.



There are two belts and one 5' long one wasn't enough. I needed about 65". I have 55" left over. I was mildly annoyed, but I'm over it now.


----------



## wa5cab

F.  I am somewhat handicapped by the fact that I don't know what the back side of the bed and L6-150L headstock end leg look like.  No parts drawing shows anything but a front view and AFAIK no owner has ever photographed the back side of the lathe with motor moved out of the way.  But it appears to me that the L6-20 Countershaft Bracket is mounted much too far to the left (as looked at from the front of the lathe).  Maybe as much as 3/4" to 1" too far.  And that the L3-107 Spindle is too far to the left and that the 10-80 Pulley is too far to the right on the spindle.  The spindle should stick out through the right bushing a little bit.  Do not assume that as found it was correctly assembled.


----------



## ARC-170

*35. SPINDLE ALIGNMENT (CON'T)*


wa5cab said:


> F.  I am somewhat handicapped by the fact that I don't know what the back side of the bed and L6-150L headstock end leg look like.  No parts drawing shows anything but a front view and AFAIK no owner has ever photographed the back side of the lathe with motor moved out of the way.  But it appears to me that the L6-20 Countershaft Bracket is mounted much too far to the left (as looked at from the front of the lathe).  Maybe as much as 3/4" to 1" too far.  And that the L3-107 Spindle is too far to the left and that the 10-80 Pulley is too far to the right on the spindle.  The spindle should stick out through the right bushing a little bit.  Do not assume that as found it was correctly assembled.



I took another look at the assembly. All the brackets that hold the spindles and pulley are lined up correctly. Here are some pictures of the back from various angles:





I was able to pull spindle A off and get the pulley off as well. This is what is misaligned. Pulling it off and re-doing it is the best way to get this fixed. I wasn't able to move it at all before, but I tried a different method (taking it off the lathe and hitting it with a metal rod) and got it off. The bigger pulley (the one hooked to the motor belt) was stuck because the metal was gouged (I used a puller to get it off). Pulley A was just stuck. It's really scored on the inside. I have a better one from the donor lathe I will use. I might have to use a different axle as well. They are currently soaking in Simple Green.

*36. BELT ALIGNMENT*
I did a little research and it appears the belts cannot be misaligned much at all. The loosest tolerance I found was 1/10" deflection per foot of drive center distance. Most of them were around 0.001-0.005"/inch of pulley diameter (so a 5" diameter pulley can be 0.005-0.025" off). So it appears, to answer my own question, that these need to be aligned as close as possible.


----------



## wa5cab

OK.  Now we know what the mounting looks like.  The first version on the 618 was similar.  It was only made for about a year before they changed it to look something like the horizontal countershaft on the 10".  I've no idea why theyh changed it nor why they made the 10" look like it does.  They would have saved a lot of people a lot of trouble had they made all three look the same.

Thanks for researching the belt alignment question.  I knew that it had to be pretty close but didn't know the numbers.


----------



## ARC-170

*35-36. SPINDLE & BELT ALIGNMENT (CON'T)*
Spindle and belt alignment are complete. I took everything apart and painted the pieces. The gears and belts are all aligned. I cleaned up the shafts, got a new Woodruff key for the rear motor spindle and everything went together easy. I also put a small piece of lead in the set screw holes so the shaft doesn't get gouged.

*37. LUBE QUESTION*
On top for the bracket that holds the motor and spindles (#L3-20) there are some oil cups. There are no holes in under them, though. How do these work? Are the bushings some sort of material that absorbs the oil? How long does it take and how do I tell if these are lubed?

*38. GEAR GUARD (#10D-247)*
The donor lathe I bought had this part on it. It will fit on my lathe, but it's not listed in my parts list even though everything else is listed. However, once I got the pulleys and gears aligned, there is no room for it to fit. Just wondering what it is and why it's not listed. It seems redundant; the bigger pulley guard goes over this area.



*39. SIDE GUARD*
I'm having some issues with getting the big side door to close. It hits the motor pulley shaft.


I can get it to close if I lift up on it, but as soon as I release it, it goes back to it's original position. All the pieces it's connected to are tight. I thought I might need to adjust them a little, but there doesn't seem to be much play.  I thought I might add wedges under the mounting bracket as shown to lift it up. Thoughts about this particular solution?

Here is a picture showing where the pulley hits the cover. In this photo, there is just barely enough clearance. The solution would appear to be moving the whole motor.



When I try to move the whole motor, there is no more hole to place a bolt. The slot in the base isn't long enough:



And, if I move it too much I may not have enough shaft to align the pulley on the motor and the counter shaft pulley. I can switch the belt to the bigger counter shaft pulley, I think, but this will just mean I can't run the other speed.
Should I drill a hole in the motor base on the lathe or on the gray motor base attached to the motor? I have a few other motor bases that came with the lathe, but none of them fit the motor.

I'll play with it some more, but I'd like to hear some other suggestions. Maybe I'm missing something.


----------



## bama7

I don't think I would drill any extra holes in the green lathe motor mount. If it is at all possible I would drill a hole in the gray motor mount. If the gray plate is long enough to cover the hole already in the green lathe motor mount drill the gray and bolt it down.


----------



## wa5cab

38.  Gear Guard.

The early production and model Atlas 10" and Craftsman 12" had no belt covers and no gear guards.  The two gear guards appeared circa 1936.  The other gear guard covered the bull gear and small back gear.  The belt guards appeared and the gear guards were dropped on the 10F when equipped with the horizontal countershaft, although it appears that it took a while longer for the tapped mounting holes in the top rim of the headstock to disappear.  The belt guard appeared on the Craftsman machines with the 1937 intro of the Deluxe model, 101.07400.  And a slightly different one was supplied on the babbit bearing 101.07383 and 101.07363 in 1939.  In any case, you don't need the one gear guard that you found.


----------



## wa5cab

39.  Side Guard

The motor belt is supposed to be a 4L350.  Is the link belt that you put on the machine 35" long?


----------



## ARC-170

*39. SIDE GUARD (CON'T)*
The belt is about 35" long. I could maybe make it shorter; there is more room a little higher up. I think the motor is a replacement and the shaft on it is longer and the mounting base is different, hence it not fitting. This didn't come with the doors, so it wasn't an issue before.

Here is the location and approximate amount I would need to cut out of the motor base. I'm mostly concerned that there may not be enough metal for the bolt to hold on to. The other two bolts are fine. Thoughts?



*40. BELT COVER TAB FUNCTION*
What does this tab do? It appears to be some sort of stop, but it doesn't actually hit anything.



Here's a shot of it closed. Note the gap.



*41. BELT COVER DOOR ALIGNMENT*
The door doesn't align as shown. I thought I might grind it down so the gap is even, or at least grind down the portion on the upper right so it doesn't hit the other door. The hinge pin seems a little loose, so maybe I should get one that fits tighter. Does this look right to anyone else who has this machine? I thinking the donor lathe (which the door was taken from) might be slightly different, even though both lathes are the exact same model and everything else is the same. I could also leave it as is. I might need to adjust some other components it's attached to, but I thought I'd ask in the meantime.


----------



## wa5cab

*40. BELT COVER TAB FUNCTION*   I believe that is supposed to be the L6-730 door latch.  But it looks as though someone started to make one and didn't finish it.  It should have a "V" bent into it near the loose end.  Look at file page 4 of Craftsman Lathe 12 101-07403 12X18-36 Illus Parts Rev8 in Downloads for a drawing of what it should look like and of approximately how it should be oriented.


----------



## ARC-170

wa5cab said:


> *40. BELT COVER TAB FUNCTION*   I believe that is supposed to be the L6-730 door latch.  But it looks as though someone started to make one and didn't finish it.  It should have a "V" bent into it near the loose end.  Look at file page 4 of Craftsman Lathe 12 101-07403 12X18-36 Illus Parts Rev8 in Downloads for a drawing of what it should look like and of approximately how it should be oriented.



The L6-730 is the one farther down on the bottom (I looked on the parts diagram to confirm). The one I'm referencing is molded as part of the door. It's hard to get a good picture since there is so much in the way.


----------



## wa5cab

If you think about it, take a photo of the inside of the opened door.  I have always suspected that the drawing in the parts manual is wrong.  But I have no idea what it is there for.  The parts manual offers no clue.


----------



## ARC-170

wa5cab said:


> If you think about it, take a photo of the inside of the opened door.  I have always suspected that the drawing in the parts manual is wrong.  But I have no idea what it is there for.  The parts manual offers no clue.



There is a picture in post #134, second image. Would you like another one from a different angle?
The drawing in the parts manual I have looks the same.
Not sure if this is important, but my door appears to be aluminum. It's way too light to be iron..


----------



## ARC-170

42. MOUNTING THE LATHE
I'm ready to mount the lathe to a workbench I bought. I'd like to place it against a wall so i'd like the lathe flush with the back. This means it won't be in the middle of the table. Anyone see any issues with this? The table is very stable, just thought I'd ask.


End view. Motor is flush with the back of the table top.



Front view. I want to have minimal overhang when the belt cover doors open.


----------



## wa5cab

Unless it's actually painted steel plate, you need to double or triple the bench top thickness.


----------



## ARC-170

wa5cab said:


> Unless it's actually painted steel plate, you need to double or triple the bench top thickness.



A. It's a piece of 3/4" think MDF with 22 Ga (I think) steel.

B. I am going to use 5/16" bolts with fender washers underneath to attach the machine to the table. I'm also going to have a 22 Ga sheet metal tray to catch the oil.

C. The top is attached to the base with wood screws. This might be a weak point, now that I think about it. I could use bolts if that would be better.

D. It was originally attached to a cast iron stand with an approximately 1.5" thick wood top.
Would a thicker steel plate be for rigidity, weight, both, or something else?


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## WCraig

MDF by itself is not very strong.  It will tend to sag if the load is not directly over supports.  The steel top will help but I would still be concerned about the combination sagging over time.  Probably more on the headstock end.

For my bench, I used 3/4 by 2.75 inch hardwood bracing positioned under the lathe bed (front to back and side to side) and under the countershaft and motor.  It is glued and screwed to the melamine-coated particle board top that came with my bench.  I hope it is going to be sufficiently rigid.  

Craig


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## wa5cab

22 gauge is sheet metal.  You can easily bend it with your hands.  I assume that it is on top of the MDF where it will give good service for keeping oil from soaking into the MDF.  The original Atlas wood tops of their stands were 9" x 1-5/8" Maple.  Today, you would use a 2 x 10 S4S.  For something commercially available today, I would use two layers of 3/4" AC or AD plywood glued together with the "A" sides out.  Drill all holes after the glue sets and then paint it before installing the sheet metal top..  If you put the sheet metal on top, paint the wood first.  The hold-down bolts should be whatever fits the holes in the legs, which could be either 3/8" or 5/16"


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## ARC-170

WCraig said:


> MDF by itself is not very strong.  It will tend to sag if the load is not directly over supports.  The steel top will help but I would still be concerned about the combination sagging over time.  Probably more on the headstock end.
> 
> For my bench, I used 3/4 by 2.75 inch hardwood bracing positioned under the lathe bed (front to back and side to side) and under the countershaft and motor.  It is glued and screwed to the melamine-coated particle board top that came with my bench.  I hope it is going to be sufficiently rigid.
> 
> Craig



True! After thinking about it and reading your post, I'm going to use a metal brace mounted under the table under the headstock.


----------



## ARC-170

wa5cab said:


> 22 gauge is sheet metal.  You can easily bend it with your hands.  I assume that it is on top of the MDF where it will give good service for keeping oil from soaking into the MDF.  The original Atlas wood tops of their stands were 9" x 1-5/8" Maple.  Today, you would use a 2 x 10 S4S.  For something commercially available today, I would use two layers of 3/4" AC or AD plywood glued together with the "A" sides out.  Drill all holes after the glue sets and then paint it before installing the sheet metal top..  If you put the sheet metal on top, paint the wood first.  The hold-down bolts should be whatever fits the holes in the legs, which could be either 3/8" or 5/16"



I ran my existing setup by the machine shop teacher where I work and he thought I'd be okay as long as I wasn't taking heavy cuts. He told me to try it and see how much vibration and shaking I get. Easy for him to say! Ha!

The sheet metal is for oil, not support. I like the idea of going with 2x10's, but plywood might be better. I'm thinking maybe adding some sort of "L" channel under the table for support might work. I might have to re-think this. I'll try and post a picture of what I'm thinking.


----------



## wa5cab

I'm not familiar with MDF but from the comment above, think that it may be like particle board.  Which is not particularly stiff.  If that's the case, I would suggest substituting plywood glued together.


----------



## craniac

I am wondering why not get some maple. You've got a good lathe with a lot of work in it, reconsider the mdf! No expert here but when I put my old atlas on a workbench made of 2x8s covered in stainless and screwed to the garage wall I could clearly see deflection in a machinist level just by leaning on the bench. This is when I was leveling the lathe. How much this really matters I don't know. But as these are fairly light duty machines good to strive for all the rigidity you can get. I have very little real world experience yet everything I've read and heard suggests going for the stiffest (and heaviest) base you can get. 

I really like this thread- thanks for posting

Tim


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## ARC-170

I have some oak boards, maybe I'll use those. I also have a steel "L" channel that's about 1/8" thick that should add some stiffness. The plan is to mount it front to back under the lathe and bolt it, the table and lathe all together. I also plan to screw it into the table at the ends, as there is a lip on the table sheet metal. I'll do this no matter what material I end up using for the top.

I appreciate all the comments about using a stiffer material; it's made me reconsider. Stay tuned!

My question is really about WHERE on the table to mount the lathe, meaning front to back and side to side. If you look at the pictures, it's not in the center; is this a problem?


----------



## WCraig

Most of the weight is in the area of the headstock, motor and countershaft.  Ideally you want the legs under the centre of that mass.  Since I couldn't do that, I put most of the underside bracing under those areas so the load was carried over to the legs at the corners.  It is only 8 months old but this seems to be working for me.

Craig


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## wa5cab

Mount the lathe near the front according to various drawings.  And let the rear fall where it may.  This would have the center of the front holes around 1-1/8" back from the front edge.  Any drip pan (whether fixed or removable) should hang out past the front edge about another inch.  So that anything that misses the pan will go onto the floor, not the bench top.


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## ARC-170

*43. CLEANING THE CHUCK*
What is the best way to clean the 3-jaw chuck? Soak it in kerosene? Simple green? Should I take it apart?


----------



## wa5cab

I would.  But first mark the pieces so that after cleaning, you can put everything back exactly as it was.  And one of the few places on an Atlas where you should use grease instead of oil is on the scroll where you can't later get oil in reliably.  My 6" Pratt-Bernerd has a grease fitting for that.


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## ARC-170

What type of grease should I use?


----------



## wa5cab

I'm not really sure what the generic description would be.  I would suggest looking on the manufacturer's web site and on machine tool suppliers sites for something where they specifically describe it as good for use in 3-jaw and 6-jaw chucks.  Buy one tube or other container of it and never use it for anything else.  It might even be described as chuck grease.


----------



## ARC-170

*43. CLEANING THE CHUCK (con't)*
I soaked it in Simple Green for a few days. Got it nice and clean. 

So I did some research on what to use for lubrication. The chuck lubrication debate rages on the internet!

Moly-graphite grease seems to be a popular choice. Some people don't like grease because it attracts swarf. Others use oil, but sparingly so it doesn't fling off. Others use spray graphite. My machinist colleague at work says any machine grease is fine for my application, which is occasional hobby use.

The MOLO states: "Keep the chuck clean and do not oil excessively--a light film on all working parts is ample." It also states that "...sticky jaws indicate that the chuck should be taken apart for a thorough cleaning." It goes on to say "When reassembling, do not apply too much oil. Oil collects dust and chips which sooner or later clog the chuck mechanism."

My take is this: If you are using your machine for production then what type of lube you use is more critical than if you are a hobbyist. Use either oil or grease, depending on your situation. And no matter what, clean your chuck once in awhile. 

*44. TAKING APART THE CHUCK*
I took the 3 socket screws off the back, but the plates won't separate. Are they press fit? Is it just the oil film keeping it together?

Couldn't find any decent instructions for doing this. There's a thread on this site, but it completely skips removing the scroll plate. I will make a few attempts while I await all your wisdom!


----------



## ARC-170

wa5cab said:


> I would.  But first mark the pieces so that after cleaning, you can put everything back exactly as it was.  And one of the few places on an Atlas where you should use grease instead of oil is on the scroll where you can't later get oil in reliably.  My 6" Pratt-Bernerd has a grease fitting for that.



The parts are marked with numbers. They are hard to see until you take the parts off.

After doing some research, it seems there are many opinions and no real consensus on what to use. So I went to the MOLO and it says to lightly oil the parts.
I think I can get oil in between the parts and let it soak in. That said, I still may apply a light coat of moly-graphite grease to the scroll.


----------



## ARC-170

*43 & 44. CLEANING & TAKING APART THE CHUCK*
This was not too hard after all. I loosened the 3 cap screws. I tapped the back plate loose using a wood dowel and a hammer. I then loosened the two screws on the inside, then flipped it over and gently worked the cover plate out. The chuck key gears (the ones the chuck key go into and that turn the scroll) came right out. I had to work the scroll out as well by flipping the chuck upside down and working the scroll out. There is nothing in the exploded parts view that shows a chuck.

Here's a picture of the chuck pieces:


Upper left is the cover. Middle is the chuck with the scroll and chuck key gears. Right is the inner cover. The two set screws that hold it can be seen to the right of the blue box at the top.

I used Simple Green to clean everything. It wasn't too bad at all; no swarf or grease blobs.

I used way oil to lube all the parts as I put it back together. It's now mounted on the lathe. I'll need to run it and spin the oil off. I can put a cover (probably a box of some sort) over it so the oil doesn't get flung all over the place.

I tightened the cap screws to 31 lb-ft.

The chuck was made by Tralmond Mfg. Co. in Ashburnham, Mass, according to a logo on the chuck. It had a date of Sept, 1942 stamped on the inside.


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## ARC-170

*42. MOUNTING THE LATHE (con't)*
Here is what I've done for now:


This is a picture looking up from below the table. I removed a few drawers from my work bench.

I used 3/4" MDF (don't judge! ha!). I braced it with a piece of 1/8" thick angle iron. The bolts for the headstock go thru the lathe, drip pan, MDF and angle iron.

I'm going to try turning some light cuts and see how it goes. I still need to place the machine where I want it.


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## wa5cab

*44. TAKING APART THE CHUCK*

The only thing that I know of that Atlas ever published that is specifically on chucks is a 2-page bulletin that is in Downloads at:



			https://www.hobby-machinist.com/resources/atlas-chucks-pdf.1484/
		


There is only one exploded view of the 3-Jaw chuck.  It is drawn as a view from the front of the pieces.  Unfortunately, it does not actually show the spigot that sticks out the rear of the front half of the split chuck body.  When assembled, it extends through the hole shown in the center of the scroll and into the hole bored in the center of the rear half of the body.  On lubrication, it only mentions oil.  However, without removing the rear half of the body (unlike the scroll threads), it is not really possible to get oil onto the bearing surfaces of the spigot and scroll.  That is why I suggested grease at this location only.

More expensive chucks have a grease fitting accessible from the outside of the chuck that somehow delivers grease to this location.


----------



## pontiac428

An oiled up Chuck will sling oil for days on end, so be prepared. Wipe it down often. I started using grease and like that it runs cleaner and doesn't pick up much swarf.


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## ARC-170

Here's the latest:

*39. SIDE GUARD*
I drilled out the holes in the mounting plate and moved the motor over. The axle on the motor sticks out too far, but I got it so it just clears the cover. When the machine rattles, it sometimes moves the cover.

*40. BELT COVER TAB*
Still don't know what this does. Seems like it should act as a stop for the cover.

*41 BELT COVER DOOR ALIGNMENT*
I decided this wasn't worth the trouble. It aligns enough to work.

*42. MOUNTING THE LATHE*
I placed the oil drip pan under the lathe, bolted it to the MDF/22Ga steel table. I used an "L" channel under the headstock to bear the weight and add some stiffness. I've mad a few cuts and it seems sturdy enough.

*43-44. CHUCKS*
I reassembled one. The other one is proving difficult to get apart. Stay tuned.

*45. LEVELING THE LATHE*
I've decided I'm going to put the machine on the garage floor.
a. Should I bolt it to the floor? 
b. I have my grandfather's machinist's level. I will use this to level the machine, Anything I should know?

Once I do this, I'll then align the head and tail stocks.

*46. HEADSTOCK ALIGNMENT*
What's the best way to accomplish this? The barbell method seems the best, but I'd like to use the 3-jaw chuck, since that's the one I'll use the most. Thoughts?

*47. TAILSTOCK ALIGNMENT*
I thought I would chuck up a piece of long-ish round stock between centers and make a cut. If it's tapered, I adjust the tailstock until there's no taper.
I also thought I might run out the tailstock as far as it will go and measure it with an indicator at both ends and see if they are the same.
Thoughts?


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## ARC-170

*47. TAILSTOCK ALIGNMENT (con't)*
I found this in another post:

_A test bar only needs a ring on each end that's the same diameter and perfectly centered. Center drill both ends of a bar. Using a *dead* center in the tailstock, turn a clean area next to the tailstock. Flip the bar and do it again. Do a final pass on each end (flipping the bar and working at the dead center) using a shear tool (for good finish on steel), and without moving the crossfeed. You should have identical diameters on both ends, perfectly centered because it was running on a dead center. _

a. If I use a center drill on an out-of-alignment tailstock will that matter?
b. Why a dead center? Less chance of movement?


----------



## ARC-170

*46-47. HEADSTOCK & TAILSTOCK ALIGNMENT (con't)*
I found this in another post: 

_There is no need to turn a test bar or to have one perfectly centered. Rollie's Dad's method will work to adjust the tailstock center. 

For those who are not familiar with Rollie's Dad's method, it only requires a rigid test bar uniform roundness and, preferably, diameter. If a bar is mounted in a lathe chuck and the surface near the headstock is swept with a DTI, the average of the minimum and maximum readings will be the spindle axis position plus the radius. Runout is automatically compensated for. If the carriage is then moved to the far end of the bar and the process repeated the average of the two readings will be the same if the carriage ways are parallel to the spindle axis. This process is used to align the lathe bed to the spindle.

For adjusting the tailstock, a slightly different approach is taken. the test bar is mounted between centers. A lathe dog and face plate are used to turn the bar. The minimum and maximum readings are averaged at each of two positions. If the tailstock is properly aligned the two averages will be the same. Any runout is canceled out in the process so the center drills do not have to concentric with the bar diameter. The tailstock can to be moved correct any difference without having to go back to check the headstock readings although it would be wise to do a final verification.

If the headstock center is known to be true (no runout), the bar can be rotated by hand, no dog and face plate required. _


----------



## wa5cab

*40. BELT COVER TAB* 

I had also assumed that it was a Stop.  If there is nothing there for it to push against, then I don't know what else it could be for.

*42. MOUNTING THE LATHE* 

First a terminology correction.  When referring to material, regardless of whether it is steel, aluminum, whatever, Channel has three (or six) sides, generally at right angles to each other.  If the material only has two (four) sides at right angles to each other, it is called Angle, as in steel angle, aluminum angle, etc.  Sometimes, steel angle is described as "angle iron" in older texts.

*45. LEVELING THE LATHE* 

a. Yes.
b. Level the bench, stand, cabinet, etc. to the accuracy of a carpenter's level.  If you have an oil pan with raised sides and a drain hole in one corner, tilt the bottom of the pan slightly toward the drain hole.  Typically, the drain will be at the right end but may be in the front or rear corner.  Then level the lathe bed both fore and aft and left and right to the accuracy of the machinists level.  Before starting, ensure that your level is accurate by laying it on the bed left to right, noting the exact position of the bubble, then rotating it 180 degrees and noting the position.  The two positions should be the same.

*47. TAILSTOCK ALIGNMENT (con't)* 

A test bar that you are going to keep for future use should be at least 1" in diameter and around 12" long.  Before making it, mount a dead center in the spindle and the tailstock ram.  Retract the ram to zero and lock it.  Slide the tailstock toward the headstock until the centers nearly touch and adjust the tailstock back-set to as near zero as you can eyeball it.  

Remove the centers, install a three jaw chuck on the spindle, and mount the test bar in the chuck.  Set up your steady rest near the chuck and then slide it down near the tailstock and lock it in place to keep the test bar from bending away from the cutter.  Install a drill chuck in the ram and mount a good center drill.  Center drill the end of the bar.  Flip the bar end for end and repeat.  Remove the steady rest, reinstall both dead centers and at the spindle install a face plate.  Mount the bar between centers, with a lathe dog at the headstock end to drive the bar.  Turn down the bar except for about an inch at each end to a diameter of around 1/4" less than the ends.  Then turn down the tail stock end to clean up, leaving it larger than the bulk of the bar.  Without touching the cross feed or compound settings, flip the bar end for end and repeat.  You now have your test bar.  Mount a dial test indicator to bear against the ends of the bar and zero it at the headstock.  Crank it down to the tailstock end and adjust the back set to zero the DTI.  To prove up the bar, flip it end for end and check that the indicator is still zeroed at both ends.

a. It shouldn't but the tailstock will be very close to centered during this step.
b. Yes.


----------



## ARC-170

*45. LEVELING THE LATHE/BOLTING TO THE FLOOR*

Here is what I'm thinking of doing for bolting it to the floor. Four 3 inch "L" brackets:



This is the same, but easier to do. However, it doesn't look as nice:



I thought I could add shims under the "L" brackets as needed. They need to go up about 1/16" or so in the front and on one side.

I'd use 2-3 inch-long 1/4" dia. lag bolts into lead anchors. My garage floor does not have any post-tensioned components. 

The bench is about 22 Ga sheet metal. It's thinner than 16 Ga for sure. I need to add an "X" brace in the back to keep it laterally braced; it moves from side to side (right to left as you are standing at the lathe) too much. I'm not sure how much the "L" brackets will help correct this.


----------



## bill70j

ARC-170 said:


> Here is what I'm thinking of doing for bolting it to the floor. Four 3 inch "L" brackets:


You might consider using sections of 3" angle iron instead of the L brackets.  You could make them as wide as you want, so they would be easier to shim and would be stronger.


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## wa5cab

*45. LEVELING THE LATHE/BOLTING TO THE FLOOR* 

The shims should go under the corner legs, not just under the angle brackets.  Shimming under just the angle brackets alone would not be good.  Do not use lag bolts longer that the lead anchors.  Do not attach the angle brackets to the legs with sheet metal screws.  Assuming that the legs are 2" x 2", use 1/4"-20 x 3" hex head bolts to attach the brackets to the legs, through holes drilled all of the way through the legs.  I second using 3" steel angle cut off (again assuming the legs are 2" x 2") 1-1/2" long.  The brackets shown in your photos are far too flimsy.  Reinforce the side of the legs that are not against angle brackets with 1/4" x 1-1/2" steel flat bar cut 3" long.  Install all of the angle brackets and backing bars flush to the floor before you start shimming.  Your shims (assuming 2" x 2" legs and 3" angle brackets) should be 2-1/2" x 5-1/2".


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## bill70j

wa5cab said:


> Shimming under just the angle brackets alone would not be good.


Agree.  Better to shim the legs.


----------



## ARC-170

*45. BOLTING THE LATHE BENCH TO THE FLOOR*
Here's what the plan view cross-section of the table looks like. It thought this might be helpful for the discussion:


The left and right sides of the table/bench are just formed 22 Ga (I think) sheet metal. There is no reinforcement such as tubing or anything folded over and welded together. The cross members hold everything together. I just got a bench with drawers and a cabinet on CL. I think it's rated to hold 1000 lbs. However it still needs to be stiffened for this application.

I went ahead and added the brackets at the ends (as shown in the second photo) and bolted them to the sides with 1/4"-20 bolts and nuts. They are anchored to the floor with #10 anchor bolts. BTW, they don't make lead anchors anymore, at least not in California. I used sleeve anchors. The side to side movement has been reduced, and the table is actually a bit more level than before.

I thought I would try this and see how it went. I thought heavy gauge angle iron was overkill since the sheet metal sides would be the weak point. Although, now that I think about it, the anchor bolts are probably the weak point. I suppose it depends on what forces are acting upon what components. I will take light cuts and see what happens.

I will definitely add any shims under the sides. Should they be under the brackets as well? That's how I read the above, just want to clarify.

*47. TAILSTOCK ALIGNMENT*
I aligned the tailstock and  headstock by eye as close as possible.

I have some questions/clarifications about this:
_Remove the centers, install a three jaw chuck on the spindle, and mount the test bar in the chuck. Set up your *steady rest* near the chuck and then slide it down near the tailstock and lock it in place to keep the test bar from bending away from the cutter. Install a drill chuck in the ram and mount a good center drill. Center drill the end of the bar. Flip the bar end for end and repeat. *Remove the steady rest, reinstall both dead centers and at the spindle install a face plate*. Mount the bar between centers, with a lathe dog at the headstock end to drive the bar. Turn down the bar except for about an inch at each end to a diameter of around 1/4" less than the ends. Then turn down the tail stock end to clean up, leaving it larger than the bulk of the bar. Without touching the cross feed or compound settings, flip the bar end for end and repeat. You now have your test bar. Mount a dial test indicator to bear against the ends of the bar and zero it at the headstock. Crank it down to the tailstock end and adjust the back set to zero the DTI. To prove up the bar, flip it end for end and check that the indicator is still zeroed at both ends._

c. I don't have a steady rest. Thought I'd use some  3/4" aluminum round stock since it fits in the spindle bore. I can center drill both ends without having it stick out too much. Thoughts?
d. "...install a faceplate." Why? I can't install 2 dead centers AND a faceplate. What am I missing?
e. I'm making a "barbell" shape, arent't I?


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## wa5cab

*45. BOLTING THE LATHE BENCH TO THE FLOOR

>>*I will definitely add any shims under the sides. Should they be under the brackets as well? That's how I read the above, just want to clarify.

Yes.  As Bill implied, when you tighten down the anchor bolts, you will bend the light gauge legs and maybe the brackets.

*47. TAILSTOCK ALIGNMENT*

c.  Probably the three most useful and used accessories for an engine lathe are QCTP, Steady Rest and Live Center.  You should have at least those three.  While it is true that a 3/4" diameter bar can be stuck into the spindle bore, the problem with using 3/4" round bar is that by the time that you cut the center 80+% of the length down and then do cleanup cuts on the ends, the center part will be down to around 1/2".  With a length of about 12", you might be surprised at how flexible this actually is.  If you do not have a steady rest, you would be better served to up the diameter to 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" and run rather slow spindle RPM to minimize whip.

d.  Actually, I should have said "dog driver plate", which is usually smaller than a face plate.  But some at least face plates can double as driver plates.  But whichever you use, I have never seen one of either that you can't also insert and use a dead center with.  All of the Atlas lathes originally came with two 2MT dead centers (1MT with the 6") and a 3MT x 2MT adapter sleeve (2MT x 1MT with the 6").  The adapter plus center install in the spindle bore and the plate screws onto the threads.  The center will stick out past the surface of the plate.

e.  Yes.  The main reason for turning down most of the length is so that the dial indicator doesn't drag on the bar as you traverse the distance between the right and left ends of the bar.


----------



## ARC-170

*45. BOLTING THE LATHE BENCH TO THE FLOOR*
I will get enough shims to make big enough ones that will fit under the brackets and bench legs. Thanks!

*47. TAILSTOCK ALIGNMENT*
c. Will this steady rest work with my lathe:


There is about 2 3/4" between the gap in the ways, the ways are 1 1/2" wide each and the overall outside width of the ways is 5 3/4". I have flat ways.

d. I don't have any type of face plate. I'll put it on the list. I have a non-tapered center and a live center that fits in the tail stock. I also have 2 lathe dogs.

e. I may try all the methods I've researched and see how they compare.


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## wa5cab

The steady rest appears to be about the right height.  But you will need to add a block that will just fit between your ways and somehow lock it to the bottom of the base of the steady rest casting.  And the clamp block may be too long to fit below the ways.  The clamp block from Atlas is the same as the clamp under the tailstock.  I have seen them on eBay pretty cheap..


----------



## ARC-170

*45. BOLTING THE LATHE BENCH TO THE FLOOR *
Got the shim pieces. I also got some flat bar to use as "X" bracing on the back.

*47 c. STEADY REST FOR TAILSTOCK ALIGNMENT*


wa5cab said:


> The steady rest appears to be about the right height.  But you will need to add a block that will just fit between your ways and somehow lock it to the bottom of the base of the steady rest casting.  And the clamp block may be too long to fit below the ways.  The clamp block from Atlas is the same as the clamp under the tailstock.  I have seen them on eBay pretty cheap..



I bought the tailstock pictured. It will work just fine, but I need to make a clamp for it. The bolt it came with was an M18-2.5 about 140mm long. This is too long; it will hit the cross-members on the bed. A 3/4-10 x 2" long Grade 8 bolt will fit. I just need to mill a block the right size with a tapped hole in it. I'm trying to borrow a tap and drill for this hole. Stay tuned.


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## wa5cab

OK


----------



## ARC-170

Hello all! It's been awhile. I was busy with work (school started). Here's the latest:

*45. LEVELING THE LATHE*
Lathe is bolted to the workbench (with a sheet metal tray I made between the lathe and the table top) and the workbench is bolted to the floor. The machinist's level came in handy. I had a hard time getting it "calibrated". Sounds easy, but it practice it was VERY sensitive.
I can still flex the lathe a little, though, by pushing hard on the table top. I figured I'm not good enough yet for that to matter, but we'll see how much it makes a difference.
What do I gotta do to get this thing bolted tight with NO flex? Probably get a different table, right?

*46. HEADSTOCK ALIGNMENT*
I needed to learn more about sharpening bits so I'd have some sharp bits to cut with while I did this, so I got another grinder on CL and have been attempting to grind bits. In the meantime, I found a whole bunch of carbide cutters and decided to use those for now.
I chucked up a 0.75" diameter steel (not sure of type) rod in the 3-jaw chuck and was able to turn within 0.002" over 5", with the smaller end at the tailstock end. I took VERY light cuts. Not great, but I can flex the table by pushing on it and move the part in the chuck 0.001" or so.
This would mean the right front of the lathe is a little low, correct? I only have 3 bolts holding the lathe down. There is one bolt on the tailstock side, so I guess I could shim under the lathe bed foot.
It would be nice to have leveling feet.

*47. STEADY REST: TAILSTOCK ALIGNMENT*
c. I made a clamp block. I borrowed the tap and drill for the hole. It barely fit in my mill! . The only issue I still have is the steady rest is just a tad too wide for the space between the carriage. I may shave it down.

f. I need to get a bigger lathe dog in order to make the rod for the alignment. Or a smaller rod, but I think a bigger rod would be more accurate.


----------



## ARC-170

*47. TAILSTOCK ALIGNMENT*
f. I got a bigger lathe dog and a 1" aluminum rod.

g. I had to move the tailstock 0.004" in the fore/aft direction (the up/down was on the money!) and it's now within 0.001" over 7.5". I can move it about 0.001-0.002" when I tighten the tailstock nut. I made sure to tighten the screws on the tailstock, so I'm not sure where the slight movement comes from. I pushed down on the table to see if I could move the needle on the dial indicator and it didn't budge.

h. I made a cut on the rod at the head stock and then moved the compound down without touching anything. The rod was smaller at the tailstock end by 0.0015".

*48. MOTOR QUESTION*
The motor I have (probably not OEM) works just fine. However, when I shut it off, it will sometime not go back on. I have to wait to hear a little click and "whir", then it will work fine. The length of time between when I shut off the machine and when I hear the "click-whir" varies greatly and doesn't seem to be dependent on how long or short the lathe is running. Anyone know what this is? 

*CONCLUSION*
I think I'm "done". I need to make some projects and see how the lathe performs, then make any adjustments.

Thanks to all for your help and support. I hope this thread serves as a resource for anyone else restoring a similar lathe. I found the process fun, infuriating, interesting and a learning experience.


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## wa5cab

*48.*  The click that you hear is the centrifugal switch closing.  The switch, of course, disconnects power from the Start capacitor and winding after the motor starts and gets up to about 1/2 to 3/4 speed.  It should normally close again before the motor totally stops.  Although you will probably need to remove the motor from the lathe in order to do so, I'm afraid that you need to remove the end bell where the wiring goes in and investigate why.  The most common cause is lack of lubrication.  But another common cause is that one of the wires that runs near the switch is touching part of the switch and causing it to hang open.  The motor isn't going to start with the switch open (same symptom as a bad start capacitor).


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## ARC-170

I have the motor off to mount the DRO brackets for the long axis. I'm awaiting a tap wrench I ordered. I thought I'd look at the motor issue while I waited.

*48A.* What needs to be lubricated?

*48B.* The wires all look fine to me (see photo). Are there any other wires? There is a bell housing on the side (noy shown in the picture) that looks like it has a capacitor in it. Would that be the issue?


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## wa5cab

There will be two bearings or bushings.  If they can be lubricated, there will be an obvious place to do it, and SAE 20 ND will be appropriate.  If there is no obvious place to inject the oil, then the bearings will be sealed ball bearings and the only option will be to replace them.

If the motor is not wired to be reversible, then the three wire will be all that there are.

From what you have written earlier, when the centrifugal switch works properly, the motor starts and runs OK.  The problem would seem to be that it tends to stick in the open position, so that the motor will not start properly.  Most likely, lubricating the switch will correct that problem.  The Start capacitor would from what you have written earlier would not appear to be a part of the problem.  Lubricating the Start switch will require disconnecting the three wires and removal of the end bearing carrier visible in the photograph.  Part of the centrifugal switch will be on the armature shaft and part of it will be on the bearing carrier.


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## ARC-170

Is there anything special I need to know or do before I take this apart? Is it pretty straight-forward: just remove some screws, check the part, lube, re-assemble? I just want to make sure I don't need any special tools or to know any special methods before I take this apart. For example, does it need to be torqued back on or is "tight" good enough? Will there be any stored charge I need to be concerned about?


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## wa5cab

It is just barely conceivable that the last time that you turned the motor off that there was a charge left in the Start capacitor.  It is unlikely that any is left by now but if you want to be certain, unplug the line cord, turn the motor switch ON and with an insulated screwdriver, shor the two flat pins of the male plug together.  Assuming that the centrifugal switch has closed by now, that will discharge the capacitor.

Other than that, there is nothing else in the motor to worry about.

I haven't seen a good photo of the bearing carrier on the wiring end of the motor to see whether the bearing end is open or not but after you pull the nuts off of the four long tie-bolts, I would cut some blocks or spacers and jam them in between the motor pulley and the pulley end of the motor to ensure that when you pry the wiring end bearing carrier out of the motor body that the armature doesn't pull out of the wiring end of the motor.  There will be some wires that will follow the bearing carrier as you separate it from the motor body.  Be careful of those.  Part of the centrifugal mechanism will be attached to the armature and part of it including the switch itself will be attached to the bearing carrier.  There will be a flat metal disk attached to the arms on the armature that moves towards the switch as the motor speed comes up.  It will push on the switch actuator opening the switch.  If it looks like it moves, oil it!  And tight is good enough.


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## ARC-170

I got it apart. Here is the cap end. The copper pieces move, but there's nothing that looks like it has or gets oil.



On the motor shaft is a plastic disc that can be pushed down. Here it is up:



Here is it pushed down:



This mechanism makes the same clicking noise I hear when the motor is on. Again, there doesn't seem to be any obvious place for lube.  There was a little oil by the washers on the shaft. Let me know if/where this gets lube.


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## wa5cab

Any place where two different pieces of metal rub together should get a drop of oil.  Including the spring ends or eyes.  Most of the oil will quickly sling off but if you oil everything in sight, you are sure to get the offending location.  After you've oiled everything, push the plastic disk in and out several times.  The click that you hear as the motor costs to a stop should come from the switch, not the actuator.  However, those switches don't look like any I've ever seen.  Could be Chinese.


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## ARC-170

*48A.* Could I use the open gear lube I use on the change gears? I thought I would apply it with a q-tip.

*48C.* The copper pieces referenced above don't actually move; they just ride on a contact point. Sorry if that caused any confusion.

*48D.* The case on the motor has "Made in USA" molded in. I wonder if the innards are Chinese? I couldn't easily find anything about COO on those pieces. The case appears to have been painted sometime in the past; I found what appears to be overspray on the inside..

*48E.* Would it hurt to spray compressed air inside the motor?


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## wa5cab

*48A.*  It probably wouldn't hurt anything but I think that I would just use oil.

*48C.*  What does move?  And does the plastic disk move toward the bearing or toward the armature body?

*48D.*  There is probably no way to tell.

*48E.*  Probably not but keep the air pressure below about 40 PSI.


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## ARC-170

*48A.* I used oil. Seemed to help. If nothing else, it may have cleaned the contact surfaces a bit.

*48C. *The plastic piece is "at rest" away from the armature. The springs pull it in that position. This is the clicking noise I hear.

*48F.* I ran the motor and it seems fine. I did get a little spark at one of the connections when I switched it on high.  This was after switching it on and off a few times to test it. The clicking seems to happen at the right time. I guess I need to just re-install it and use it and see what happens.


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## wa5cab

What do you mean by "switched it on high"?

If the spark was at one if the studs where a wire or wires is connected, perhaps you did not tighten the nut.


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## ARC-170

wa5cab said:


> What do you mean by "switched it on high"?
> 
> If the spark was at one if the studs where a wire or wires is connected, perhaps you did not tighten the nut.



I have a 2-speed motor. Actually, it's a 3-speed but I only use two of them (it came with a 2-speed switch and I just kept it that way). The switch has high/off/low.

I may not have pushed the wire on the spade connector (no screws) far enough. I tried taking video, but there was no sound (older camera). I thought it would be interesting to hear the motor and see the spark.


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## wa5cab

OK.  Does the spark show up most times when you start the motor or only that first time?  If the latter, unplug the female, clean both sides of the male and reconnect, paying attention to fully seating the female.  If the former, you can try all of that but if that doesn't fix it, you need to replace the female spade connector.


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## ARC-170

I looked at it again. I tightened the spade connector. The spark comes from the inside of the machine. From what little I know about electric motors, this is normal, right? The size of the spark did vary a bit as I turned the motor off and on at the various speeds. I let it coast to a stop every time. The clicking noise inside is more consistent, so the lube job must have helped.

I made a video so you can see it: 



If the link doesn't work try searching for Atlas Craftsman lathe motor.

It's 1 minute 35 seconds long. I had the lights off and a light in another room on for a little ambient light (otherwise it was pitch black) so you could all see the spark better.


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## wa5cab

I can't really tell where it is coming from but I'm 99% sure that it shouldn't be there.  With a 2-dimensional display  I can't differentiate between the actual spark and the reflected light.


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## ARC-170

The reflected/ambient light is constant, so the spark is pretty obvious. There are no reflections off anything, either.

There is an electric motor repair place in town that I can take this to just to be safe.

Think I should post this elsewhere and see if any electrical experts will chime in?


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## chippermat

Looks like dirty contacts in the centrifugal switch, as mentioned in the comment section of this video of a motor doing the same as yours.


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## chippermat

What's going on with the contact on this switch, the one circled in red. Something doesn't look right about it.


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## ARC-170

I'm not sure what that mesh thing you are referring to is for. It's always been there. I thought it was just part of the switch mechanism. 
I'll take apart the end again and take some more photos and clean everything.


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## chippermat

Maybe it's there to deflect the sparks.. [edit to add: ..should the contact get dirty and or for some other reason start arcing]


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## wa5cab

The only spark should be generated several milliseconds after the motor run switch is closed, when the Start switch opens after the armature is up to maybe half or three-quarter speed.


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## ARC-170

I took the motor to a motor place. He told me to use NO lube; just clean everything. The spark at startup is normal for this particular motor. He told me to make sure it was up high so it didn't ignite any gas fumes. 

So I got some contact cleaner and cleaned everything. I lightly sanded all the contacts. I cleaned the centrifugal mechanism really well and got all the gunk off. I also wiped the oil off.

I started it up and it sparked, but ran fine. I subsequently switched it on and off a few times and got a very small spark. 

I can get a used motor on CL for about $50-60. I might look at one and see if I can get it to run and see if it also sparks before I buy it. However, after talking to the motor man, it seems this is normal for this motor and that it's nothing to worry about.

I have a drill press with a similar motor (probably much newer) that I can look and see if I get a spark at startup.


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## wa5cab

Well, all's well that ends well!


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