# Height gage help



## Joe P. (Apr 16, 2017)

I just picked up a Brown & Sharpe vernier height gage. How do I make measurements that are less 1.040" since the gage is bottomed out
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









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## jlsmithseven (Apr 16, 2017)

Did you reset the counter, have a pic of what you mean?


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## dlane (Apr 16, 2017)

Red x s , search posting pics on tapatalk so pics work


Joe P. said:


> I just picked up a Brown & Sharpe vernier height gage. How do I make measurements that are less 1.040" since the gage is bottomed out
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> ...


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## Joe P. (Apr 16, 2017)

dlane said:


> Red x s , search posting pics on tapatalk so pics work







I hope this works. 


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## jlsmithseven (Apr 16, 2017)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the caliper be flat, so it touches the bottom of your table. Like these ones are the ones we have in class.

My best guess is....the measuring face you have should be lowered on the extension. It looks like the post holding it is upside down too? I'm sure others more knowledgeable will be able to help.


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## Joe P. (Apr 16, 2017)

jlsmithseven said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the caliper be flat, so it touches the bottom of your table. Like these ones are the ones we have in class.



That's what I thought, but with the gage bottomed out all the way it reads 1.040" and with scriber the way it is picture that is the true height. With the scriber mounted below the arm the actual height is .375"
	

		
			
		

		
	




It just seems like an odd dimension to add 1.040" under the work in order to zero the gage, unless I am looking at this from the wrong perspective. 


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## T Bredehoft (Apr 16, 2017)

I believe you need what is called in the above illustration, a "Probe Extension."  That would bring the contact  point down to the surface plate. Perhaps you can make an adjustment on the vernier scale to zero it out by loosening the two slotted screws.

_Edit_, correct typo


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## Tim9 (Apr 16, 2017)

Most of the height gauges I've looked at on Flea Bay are all similar....And yet the accessories are not interchangeable. The offset of one model Brown and Sharpe may connect to a Starrett gauge...But it will not function as designed.
    It looks like that one does not have the proper offset for said Vernier Height gauge. I've also seen quite a few gauges for sale which were missing all of the accessories.  That's common since the sellers are usually people who are clueless about machinist gauges and  devices.


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## Bob Korves (Apr 16, 2017)

It is only meant to measure down to 1.000", note that the scale ends there.  There are offset attachments that let it go down the other inch, though then you need to remember to subtract an inch.  You can also use a 1-2-3 block or a gage block to take up the difference.  I think you also have other problems with the setup as well.  It should go down to 1.000", not 1.040".  The sliding portion may not be correct for your stand (Frankengage.)


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## jlsmithseven (Apr 16, 2017)

Agree with Bob Korves....


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## Joe P. (Apr 16, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> It is only meant to measure down to 1.000", note that the scale ends there.  There are offset attachments that let it go down the other inch, though then you need to remember to subtract an inch.  You can also use a 1-2-3 block or a gage block to take up the difference.  I think you also have other problems with the setup as well.  It should go down to 1.000", not 1.040".  The sliding portion may not be correct for your stand (Frankengage.)



Bob, I thought of that but there's another twist to the story. I bought a package of tools that came with 2 identical height gages. They are both the same way, so I think it is unlikely they are both "frankengages". 


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## kvt (Apr 16, 2017)

If they came from the same place they may both be frakengages, and in another package was the other shafts that these heads fit, and the heads that fit your shafts.   Any should be able to be adjusted to Zero out on the number,   Since this starts at 1  then it should zero out there, In fact the adjustment should let it go down just a bit more as it should allow you to adjust for wear on the bottom.   Just from my observations.


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## Uglydog (Apr 16, 2017)

Here is a scan of what I think is your gage from a vintage BS catalogue.
Not surprisingly it suggests that Bob Korves is correct.

Daryl
MN


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## Bob Korves (Apr 16, 2017)

The scriber should mount at the top of the bar, not the bottom.  That is the reference surface.  Put it on the top and measure something, and see what it reads.  If the scriber is at the bottom, it's height influences the measurement.


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## Uglydog (Apr 16, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> The scriber should mount at the top of the bar, not the bottom.  That is the reference surface.  Put it on the top and measure something, and see what it reads.  If the scriber is at the bottom, it's height influences the measurement.



Just like in the pic from the BS catalog.

Daryl
MN


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## Joe P. (Apr 16, 2017)

With scriber mounted on top, whatever I measure that is at least 1.040" is accurately indicated in the vernier. That and the photos from the B&S catalog make me believe that is the proper orientation.  


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## Uglydog (Apr 16, 2017)

Do the screws holding the vernier loosen and allow you to adjust the vernier slide to 1.000?

Daryl
MN


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## Bob Korves (Apr 16, 2017)

All I can say then is to grind .040" off of the bottom of the slide, or accept it the way it is.


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## WoodBee (Apr 17, 2017)

Just a wild guess, but:
What happens when you switch the slides between both gages?
They might have been switched in the past?

Peter


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## Joe P. (Apr 17, 2017)

Peter, I thought of that and switched slides with the same results. Believe me I spent a lot of time and experimenting before I posted here. I never used a height gage before, the concept looks easy and straight forward but after a while I doubted myself and thought I was approaching this wrong. I could live with the 1" offset, but the .040" is ridiculous and will have to get ground off like Bob suggested. 


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## EmilioG (Apr 17, 2017)

Check Ebay:  There are some really nice Mitutoyo dial height gages for sale that come up often.
(I know it doesn't help your current situation but if you're looking for something else, consider Mitutoyo dial HG's).
I recently bought a Mit 6" dial HG in crisp condition with wood case.  The Mit 509 series are excellent.
Very accurate and well made. 6" and 12" dial HG models available on Ebay. (no longer made, discontinued).


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## jamby (Apr 17, 2017)

Umm    I am probably not reading this right but when I got paid to lean on a granite slab we always sat short stuff on a 1-2-3 block and against an angle plate set off the block and scratched em.

Jim


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## TakeDeadAim (Apr 17, 2017)

The catalog photo is not the height gauge the OP has.  In the catalog the beam is mounted at the back of the base.  The posted photo has the beam mounted more toward the center of the base.  It would be my suspicion that you may have a gauge made up of parts that were not intended to go together.  Many of the parts interchange between models and brands.  Is there a model number on the tool anywhere?  Finding out what you have and getting more information about what parts it is supposed to have may help.


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## Joe P. (Apr 18, 2017)

It is a 12" model 585. There are several for sale on eBay, they all look identical as mine. There seems to be an offset scriber available at one probably to allow measurements under 1". The height gage reads accurately when I compared it to 2,3,4 and 5 micrometer standards. My plan is to somehow remove 0.040" and make an offset scriber. 


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## RJSakowski (Apr 18, 2017)

If the gage reads correctly with the micrometer standards, I wouldn't grind the bottom.  It will no longer read correctly.  It may well be that the gage was never intended to go down to 1.000".
Here is an eBay sale which includes both jaws.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brown-Sharp...8dbdc7&pid=100338&rk=1&rkt=30&sd=142252799114


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## WoodBee (Apr 20, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> All I can say then is to grind .040" off of the bottom of the slide, or accept it the way it is.


RJSakowski,
Bob didn't advise to grind the bottom of the gage, but rather the underside of the slide. This will not influence the readings, but will allow it to go lower.

Peter


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## Bob Korves (Apr 20, 2017)

WoodBee said:


> RJSakowski,
> Bob didn't advise to grind the bottom of the gage, but rather the underside of the slide. This will not influence the readings, but will allow it to go lower.
> 
> Peter


I personally would never grind the bottom of the slide to get the .040".  I would classify that as butchering a nice old tool.  But people look at things differently, and if that is a requirement to the owner, then it would certainly be possible and would achieve the desired results.  Leave the base and the vertical column alone, just carefully grind the bottom of the slide by about .050", IF there will be room for the arm where the scriber is mounted to clear the base after grinding it.  There is some clearance visible in the photos, but unsure if it is enough.  I would absolutely not grind on the arm that holds the scriber for fear of warpage.  We are not talking about taking the slide to a bench grinder, either.  I could do a nice clean job in a few minutes on my surface grinder, if I was into that sort of thing.


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## rgray (Apr 20, 2017)

Wouldn't you want to unpin the column if possible and surface grind the top of the base?


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## Joe P. (Apr 20, 2017)

rgray said:


> Wouldn't you want to unpin the column if possible and surface grind the top of the base?



That's along the lines I was thinking. It would be clean and appear unaltered. 


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## Bob Korves (Apr 20, 2017)

I would not unpin the base.  I think that is asking for trouble when putting it back together with keeping the column vertical and the joint tight.  A loose or crooked column height gage is scrap metal...


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## 4GSR (Apr 21, 2017)

Could you not surface grind a step on the bottom of the scriber to compensate for the .040"?  Maybe I'm looking this wrong...

Just for grins, I pulled out my nearly new Starrett height gage, set it up on the surface plate, and sure enough, the scriber sets on top of the slide. Checking it against a 1" gage block, it's right on!

Funny, my MTI surface gage, the offset scriber rest on the bottom side of the slide.


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## rgray (Apr 21, 2017)

The one I got had no scribe. I went to the trouble of cutting out an o-1 scribe and hardening and surface grinding to get it right on the money.
I would have put it in the picture but not sure where it is. After putting the test indicator on it I really liked how that worked much better.
I never use it as a scribe for layout work anyway. And for height it's easier to use with the indicator.


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## Joe P. (Apr 21, 2017)

Well I worked on 1 of the height gages today. I ground the top of the base using a dremel stone in a 1/8 collect on my mill as shown in the photo and fed in .002" with the Y axis on each pass of the table till I took off about .042". I had to flip it over to get on the other side of the blade, about half way through the stone came off the shank so I had resort to the dremel and free hand it with a cutoff wheel. I had to file in close to the blade. Lots of slow meticulous work. Then at the end I accidentally put a nice scratch right where the 1" witness mark is... duh! Anyway now it zeros out and I am satisfied, not sure if it was a bargain. I will think about it a little more to see if I can refine the process a bit before start on the second gage. 
	

		
			
		

		
	









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## ksierens (Apr 22, 2017)

I usually just put 1-2-3 blocks under small parts to raise them up when measuring or scribing small parts.


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## benmychree (Apr 22, 2017)

Joe P. said:


> That's what I thought, but with the gage bottomed out all the way it reads 1.040" and with scriber the way it is picture that is the true height. With the scriber mounted below the arm the actual height is .375"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is an offset scriber that is an accessory to the height gage; watch e bay and likely one will show up.  Find an old catalog to see what they look like.


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## Joe P. (Apr 22, 2017)

The big issue is that the gage would not go low enough to read 1" regardless of a straight scriber, offset scriber or no scriber. 1 gage would only go down to 1.040" the other gage would only go down to 1.034". 


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## Downunder Bob (Apr 22, 2017)

Joe P. said:


> I just picked up a Brown & Sharpe vernier height gage. How do I make measurements that are less 1.040" since the gage is bottomed out
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Youre pictures are not loaded properly just showing red X's.  

Common problem withTapatalk.


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## Catcam (Apr 23, 2017)

Joe P. said:


> I just picked up a Brown & Sharpe vernier height gage. How do I make measurements that are less 1.040" since the gage is bottomed out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The issue I see is that the scale does not go down below the 1.04 inch regardless of where the pointer is. Very odd
My guess is that it was modified at some stage.


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## Bob Korves (Apr 23, 2017)

Catcam said:


> My guess is that it was modified at some stage.


My guess is that it was originally made that way.  How often do we measure or scribe less than .040" using a height gage?  I am sure I never have.  We have to use a 1-2-3 block or gage block to even get down to the .040" height, a different height spacer (stack) will also take out the .040".


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## Downunder Bob (Apr 23, 2017)

Personally I would,
1.  Accept it as is and simply deduct 1.040" from whatever it is you are measuring. or,
2. make a nice plate that is 1.040" thick and sit anything you want to measure on it. or,
3. Make an extra piece that adapts the scribing foot to the height gauge, and problem solved.


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## Bob Korves (Apr 23, 2017)

bobshobby said:


> Personally I would,
> 1.  Accept it as is and simply deduct 1.040" from whatever it is you are measuring. or,
> 2. make a nice plate that is 1.040" thick and sit anything you want to measure on it. or,
> 3. Make an extra piece that adapts the scribing foot to the height gauge, and problem solved.


The height gage has been tested, and the scale is accurate to the distance under the standard height gage blade.  It works fine as built, just does not measure below 1.040" using the standard blade.  The only issue here is being able to measure shorter parts.  Using a 1-2-3 block conveniently lets one measure down to .040" by simply subtracting 1.000" from the scale reading.  1.000" offset blades are also available to fit the height gage, still need to subtract 1.000" from the scale reading.  The only issue here that we are fussing over is the .040" that the slide cannot reach because it hits the base first.  Much ado about nothing, IMHO...


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## david sobel (Apr 23, 2017)

Joe P. said:


> I just picked up a Brown & Sharpe vernier height gage. How do I make measurements that are less 1.040" since the gage is bottomed out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had one of like it in the 60's.  With a vernier if you look at the scales at an angle, you will induce an error.  You will find that it is very hard to set to the same setting again.  Its a nice find to display.  There is a reason everybody went to the dial type. A good import for for hobby use is cheap, it just will not last 10-20 years.


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