# Asbestos Asbestos Asbestos



## Braeden P (Jul 10, 2021)

So on my lathe in the electrics the covers have asbestos on them. So my question is should I let if be or coat it in something to stop any of it from getting airborne?


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## RJSakowski (Jul 10, 2021)

If it were mine, I would let it be.  The chances of any of the fiber becoming airborne are slim as long as you don't disturb them.  

If you are concerned, you can replace the asbestos with plastic insulating sheet.  Wear PPE when removing the asbestos and deposit in a sealed plastic bag and dispose of properly.


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## jwmay (Jul 10, 2021)

Well what do you know?! My switch is the same but I never even considered that was asbestos. Thanks for the unintentional warning!


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## Nogoingback (Jul 10, 2021)

I watched a crew remove asbestos from a house I sold years ago.  They were of course wearing protective
gear, but the way they removed it was to soak the asbestos completely with water from a spray bottle before
disturbing it.  Get it sopping wet and you won't get the dust. A little detergent mixed in might help as well.


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## rabler (Jul 10, 2021)

Don’t use any power tools, including a vacuum cleaner, in dealing with it as that tends to aerosolize it.


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## mpoore10 (Jul 10, 2021)

This is not professional advice. It is solely my amateur opinion. Asbestos is naturally occurring. You have inhaled it before. People were hurt by it, but they inhaled it on a daily basis for years. My grade school had pipes above our heads in the basement classroom that dropped asbestos on our heads. We played with it when we were not busy breaking thermometers to play with the mercury while laying across the back window of our mom's car. Asbestos was an original trial lawyer class action scam to explain why people that smoked two packs of cigs a day were having lung problems. Once they started winning against the tobacco companies, asbestos disappeared from the news.


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## Shootymacshootface (Jul 11, 2021)

At my age (53), I wouldn't worry too much about leaving it there and possibly disturbing it once in a while for maintenance or repairs. But, at your age, I would definitely avoid ever breathing in any of that stuff. Once it got in your lungs, it would have a lifetime to fester into the asbestosis. 
I'm not sure what to tell you about what to do with what you have there, other than a proper abatement.


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## jwmay (Jul 11, 2021)

I don't know what you do with asbestos.  But if it bothers you, find out who you can deliver it to for disposal, and make a new switch cover plate. It's just a piece of sheet steel.... says the guy not remaking it.


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## Braeden P (Jul 11, 2021)

I have some body liner for the chassis of a car would that work?


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## 682bear (Jul 11, 2021)

Is that like a spray-on undercoating? I would think a few heavy coats of that might work pretty good... it's just for insulation, right?

-Bear


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## Braeden P (Jul 11, 2021)

The asbestos was added from the factory in case of any happy wires.


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## Braeden P (Jul 11, 2021)

The asbestos is covered up


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## Bi11Hudson (Jul 11, 2021)

mpoore10 said:


> *This is not professional advice*. It is solely my amateur opinion. Asbestos is naturally occurring. You have inhaled it before. People were hurt by it, but they inhaled it on a daily basis for years. My grade school had pipes above our heads in the basement classroom that dropped asbestos on our heads. We played with it when we were not busy breaking thermometers to play with the mercury while laying across the back window of our mom's car. Asbestos was an original trial lawyer class action scam to explain why people that smoked two packs of cigs a day were having lung problems. Once they started winning against the tobacco companies, asbestos disappeared from the news.


Agreed; Having worked around sheet stock in a foundry, using it as an insulator against grease on the floor when lying on it, I'm not too concerned about the stuff. I have worked on cement asbestos shingles on my house over 40 years. At 70 plus years, I can still breathe well enough to smoke a pack a day. Nobody lives forever, you got to account for how you make a living. Working in a foundry as electrician versus holding down a desk in an air conditioned office. Me, I'm allergic to air conditioning. . . And worked around hot metal most of my life. And been around pipe and hull insulation on ships the rest of the time.

If the asbestos is in sheet form, soft like a piece of cloth or wire insulation, I would consider replacing it *if *I was working on the wiring. If it is in a "plate" form, like plastic, I would replace it like any other cover plate. Like it cracked or broke. for rigid parts like switches, leave it alone unless it chipped and *needed* replacement. Modern insulation doesn't hold a candle to asbestos when it comes to heat. And the soft stuff from steel mills, branded "Kao Wool"(?) looks like spun glass insulation, is as, or more, dangerous than asbestos. It just hasn't been in use long enough to link to lung damage.

To quote the "Bard", 'Much ado about nothing'. . .

.


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## aliva (Jul 11, 2021)

RJSakowski said:


> If it were mine, I would let it be.  The chances of any of the fiber becoming airborne are slim as long as you don't disturb them.
> 
> If you are concerned, you can replace the asbestos with plastic insulating sheet.  Wear PPE when removing the asbestos and deposit in a sealed plastic bag and dispose of properly.


Leave it alone. Asbestos is harmless unless it disturbed


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## Eddyde (Jul 11, 2021)

FTR a good encapsulator for Asbestos can be made from white glue (Like Elmers) thinned with water. Best applied by spray but can also brushed on, two coats is adequate to stabilize most situations.


Bi11Hudson said:


> Agreed; Having worked around sheet stock in a foundry, using it as an insulator against grease on the floor when lying on it, I'm not too concerned about the stuff. I have worked on cement asbestos shingles on my house over 40 years. At 70 plus years, I can still breathe well enough to smoke a pack a day. Nobody lives forever, you got to account for how you make a living. Working in a foundry as electrician versus holding down a desk in an air conditioned office. Me, I'm allergic to air conditioning. . . And worked around hot metal most of my life. And been around pipe and hull insulation on ships the rest of the time.
> 
> If the asbestos is in sheet form, soft like a piece of cloth or wire insulation, I would consider replacing it *if *I was working on the wiring. If it is in a "plate" form, like plastic, I would replace it like any other cover plate. Like it cracked or broke. for rigid parts like switches, leave it alone unless it chipped and *needed* replacement. Modern insulation doesn't hold a candle to asbestos when it comes to heat. And the soft stuff from steel mills, branded "Kao Wool"(?) looks like spun glass insulation, is as, or more, dangerous than asbestos. It just hasn't been in use long enough to link to lung damage.
> 
> ...


I too have been exposed to Asbestos many times since childhood, and still I'm alive. However, because you, me and others have survived exposure doesn't mean it is not a serious health hazard. There is tons of evidence proving it is a deadly carcinogen. Also there is much evidence that susceptibility to cancer is genetic. So if you don't have the cancer gene you might get away with exposure to carcinogens like asbestos but if you have the gene and you get exposed, you might die.
I think it's irresponsible to offer advice of "I didn't get sick so it isn't a problem".


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## markba633csi (Jul 11, 2021)

Agree with Bear, I would just coat on some Varathane or something and leave it at that
-Mark


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## FOMOGO (Jul 11, 2021)

Spray on clear acrylic seems like it would work well. Fairly inexpensive, and leaves a plastic like finish. Probably no worse or better than other coatings, but something I always have at hand. Mike


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## Braeden P (Jul 11, 2021)

I already sprayed it with liquid rubber because I had some might use some other stuff on the other parts.


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## Ultradog MN (Jul 12, 2021)

Eddyde said:


> I think it's irresponsible to offer advice of "I didn't get sick so it isn't a problem".


And I think it is irresponsible for people who are scared of Everything to try to make others scared of everything too.
The asbestos lawsuits have milked Billions of dollars out of American industry and are a great example of why we aren't competitive any more. 
So now instead of a Monarch, Leblond. or Bridgeport we get crappy stuff from China.
That tiny bit of asbestos, enclosed under an electrical cover will Never hurt anyone. But the fear of Everything in life will.


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## Eddyde (Jul 12, 2021)

Ultradog MN said:


> And I think it is irresponsible for people who are scared of Everything to try to make others scared of everything too.
> The asbestos lawsuits have milked Billions of dollars out of American industry and are a great example of why we aren't competitive any more.
> So now instead of a Monarch, Leblond. or Bridgeport we get crappy stuff from China.
> That tiny bit of asbestos, enclosed under an electrical cover will Never hurt anyone. But the fear of Everything in life will.


I'm not scared of anything, except maybe women that are 6" taller than me, but aside from them, nothing.
But that doesn't mean I am not going to be cautious with known toxins and dangerous materials. That's not fear, it's being smart about self preservation. I find it an interesting phenomenon that some people think just because something won't kill you immediately it isn't somehow isn't as deadly. I assume you wouldn't be so foolish as to handle cyanide without proper PPE, Right? Because it can kill you in a minute, so why be careless when it comes to something that can kill you in years or decades? You'll be just as dead in the end.

Johns Manville corporation, a leading litigant in the asbestos lawsuits is still in business and doing well. So Asbestos had little or nothing to do with the decline in US manufacturing, greed is what did that. Corporations simply realizing they could make more profits by making their products elsewhere. Manufacturing left so the machine tool industry collapsed. Nothing to do with asbestos or lawsuits.


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## Richcan22 (Jul 12, 2021)

Braeden P said:


> So on my lathe in the electrics the covers have asbestos on them. So my question is should I let if be or coat it in something to stop any of it from getting airborne?


You can just spray with a clear coat to keep from being airborne. There’s also an entrapment spray but as long as you don’t disturb it will be fine. Depends on the appearance you can spray with 3M Super 77 or something like that.


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## WobblyHand (Jul 12, 2021)

Proper encapsulation to prevent the fibers from getting airborne is all that is necessary.  This protects you.  If it is easy to remove (safely) just do it. If not, nearly any encapsulation, rubber, paint, glue, etc. will work.  Asbestos, while a wonder material, used for insulation, filler material in tiles and brake linings, gets trapped in your lungs.  There it sits irritating the lung tissue.  Many people can get lung cancer from it.  Some luck out.  

My Dad worked in the Charlestown Navy Yard as an electrician and was exposed to a lot of asbestos.  The Navy (since it was WWII) was trying to crank out ships.  No respirators.  Dad knew there was asbestos.  Eventually it got him, but it was much, much later.  He never was afraid of asbestos.  When cleaning out the house, I had to dispose of a roll of asbestos "paper".  Stuff was (and still is) an awesome insulator, but would powder if you folded it, cut it, or looked at it cross-eyed.  Not worth the health risk to me.


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## WobblyHand (Jul 12, 2021)

Local history:  Johns-Manville operated an asbestos factory in Nashua from 1900-1985.  During that time, Johns-Manville offered "free-of-charge" asbestos waste to anyone who asked.  Many people took up the offer for this waste to serve as "clean fill".  Consequently there are a lot of "asbestos dumps" in the area.  Not all of them documented.  People still discover these sites.  (Or re-discover...)  NH Asbestos  When digging in my yard, I had to be on the lookout for "odd looking" materials.  Fortunately, I haven't found any.

J M is still in business.  They declared bankruptcy, perhaps to reduce their liability.  Whether one considers this good or bad depends on your point of view. You can read about some of it on Wikipedia. Johns-Manville History  There are links to Johns Manville corporate on the wikipedia site as well.


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## Janderso (Jul 12, 2021)

Wasn't it around 1977 asbestos became a known health concern?
I remember we had asbestos blankets for welding shields in high school. 
The guys in the shop use to blow the dust off brake parts. The shop would have billowing clouds of rusty colored asbestos and metal dust.
It took decades to work out a good replacement for brake pads. IMHO and experience.


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## WobblyHand (Jul 12, 2021)

@Janderso around that time it became public, but it was actually known to be an issue much earlier.  I worked as a kid in a tire place and we did brake work.  My Dad warned me not to use air to get rid of the dust in the drums.  Everyone else used air.  I'd dump the fines into a barrel, trying not to get near the cloud.  Asbestos was in lots of things.  It was really useful.  Too bad the friable fibers are a slow and silent long term hazard.

The first few generations of brake pads after asbestos weren't that good...  Got to agree with you.


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 12, 2021)

When I was a kid, I was always tinkering with something. At some point my dad got me a couple of 18x24x2 asbestos pads for doing torch work. They were like rigid fiberglass bats. I used them for all sorts of stuff, cut pieces out of them etc. Much later I bought a house encased in asbestos-cement tiles in their original (unpainted) condition. Home improvements required me to do some drilling and cutting, not to mention removing the asbestos insulation from old heating ducts. I'll be 70 in a couple of months and my lungs are still clear. But then, I've never smoked tobacco....


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## Janderso (Jul 12, 2021)

MrWhoopee said:


> When I was a kid, I was always tinkering with something. At some point my dad got me a couple of 18x24x2 asbestos pads for doing torch work. They were like rigid fiberglass bats. I used them for all sorts of stuff, cut pieces out of them etc. Much later I bought a house encased in asbestos-cement tiles in their original (unpainted) condition. Home improvements required me to do some drilling and cutting, not to mention removing the asbestos insulation from old heating ducts. I'll be 70 in a couple of months and my lungs are still clear. But then, I've never smoked tobacco....


The lungs ability to clean themselves is compromised by tobacco smoke. As i tecall the little hairs are stunned.
Im luck also, never smoked.
It made me cough and smell.
Gee such fun


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## stupoty (Jul 12, 2021)

Spray application means your not brushing it around and braking it up.

I worked someware that had had a lot of asbestos removed and after the removal they applied a spray coating to everything in the area, cables , pipes , walls (was in a service area).



Stu


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## Bi11Hudson (Jul 12, 2021)

Eddyde said:


> I too have been exposed to Asbestos many times since childhood, and still I'm alive. However, because you, me and others have survived exposure doesn't mean it is not a serious health hazard. There is tons of evidence proving it is a deadly carcinogen. Also there is much evidence that susceptibility to cancer is genetic. So if you don't have the cancer gene you might get away with exposure to carcinogens like asbestos but if you have the gene and you get exposed, you might die.
> I think it's irresponsible to offer advice of "I didn't get sick so it isn't a problem".


First off, it wasn't intended as advice. Further, my comment was not "I didn't get sick so it isn't a problem". It was more a matter of what wll get to me first, the asbestos, the foundry sand and sandblasting(silicosis), my tobacco which I dearly enjoy, or riding a motorcycle across two states to have a cup of coffee at 03: AM, or something entirely unexpected. In essence, I faced my mortality when I was in the military ('68-'74) and am not afraid of dying. There are so many ways to expire, the only safe method is to stay in bed and have 24/7 attendance. 

But even that isn't 100% safe. So we arise each day, give thanks for being alive, and pursue our day doing whatever we consider a priority. My concern isn't for my life, it is for the machines surrounding me. Washing parts in gasoline while smoking doesn't scare me, but I don't do it because the fire would burn down the shop, likely the residence, and quite probably the neighbor's house. The wife would be quite ill over the mess. Plus many of my models date from the '50s and '60s. Since they're in the same building as the shop, those older and "one of a kinds" would be a total loss.

I could retire to the country and become a "gentleman farmer" which actually implies that it's my stuff and someone else doing the work. But "Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my" can do just as much damage as the fire. But that requires a great deal of moola. Bill Gates might have that kind of money, but Bill Hudson certainly doesn't. So, life goes on and I make my little bit of a mark on history. I have made my mark and am looking for something to best it. Haven't found it yet, but I'm still looking at grass from the green side.

.


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## Ultradog MN (Jul 13, 2021)

Eddyde said:


> I'm not scared of anything, except maybe women that are 6" taller than me, but aside from them, nothing.
> But that doesn't mean I am not going to be cautious with known toxins and dangerous materials. That's not fear, it's being smart about self preservation. I find it an interesting phenomenon that some people think just because something won't kill you immediately it isn't somehow isn't as deadly. I assume you wouldn't be so foolish as to handle cyanide without proper PPE, Right? Because it can kill you in a minute, so why be careless when it comes to something that can kill you in years or decades? You'll be just as dead in the end.
> 
> Johns Manville corporation, a leading litigant in the asbestos lawsuits is still in business and doing well. So Asbestos had little or nothing to do with the decline in US manufacturing, greed is what did that. Corporations simply realizing they could make more profits by making their products elsewhere. Manufacturing left so the machine tool industry collapsed. Nothing to do with asbestos or lawsuits.





Eddyde said:


> I'm not scared of anything, except maybe women that are 6" taller than me, but aside from them, nothing.
> But that doesn't mean I am not going to be cautious with known toxins and dangerous materials. That's not fear, it's being smart about self preservation. I find it an interesting phenomenon that some people think just because something won't kill you immediately it isn't somehow isn't as deadly. I assume you wouldn't be so foolish as to handle cyanide without proper PPE, Right? Because it can kill you in a minute, so why be careless when it comes to something that can kill you in years or decades? You'll be just as dead in the end.
> 
> Johns Manville corporation, a leading litigant in the asbestos lawsuits is still in business and doing well. So Asbestos had little or nothing to do with the decline in US manufacturing, greed is what did that. Corporations simply realizing they could make more profits by making their products elsewhere. Manufacturing left so the machine tool industry collapsed. Nothing to do with asbestos or lawsuits.


In this whole thread there is a lot of fear - over a tiny piece of asbestos, which is inside an enclosed motor control, that hasn't been opened in how many years and won't be opened again for how long? 
Your allusion to cyanide was pure hyperbole, intended to instill fear in others.
Yep. Just looking at asbestos in a photograph behind glass is enough to cause mesothelioma and you will immediately die a horrible death and your loved ones will be cast away like leaves upon a stormy sea.
I see the same kind of fearsome talk on the tractor boards and it makes me wonder how some people can get out from under their bed in the morning...


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## Eddyde (Jul 13, 2021)

Bi11Hudson said:


> First off, it wasn't intended as advice. Further, my comment was not "I didn't get sick so it isn't a problem". It was more a matter of what wll get to me first, the asbestos, the foundry sand and sandblasting(silicosis), my tobacco which I dearly enjoy, or riding a motorcycle across two states to have a cup of coffee at 03: AM, or something entirely unexpected. In essence, I faced my mortality when I was in the military ('68-'74) and am not afraid of dying. There are so many ways to expire, the only safe method is to stay in bed and have 24/7 attendance.
> 
> But even that isn't 100% safe. So we arise each day, give thanks for being alive, and pursue our day doing whatever we consider a priority. My concern isn't for my life, it is for the machines surrounding me. Washing parts in gasoline while smoking doesn't scare me, but I don't do it because the fire would burn down the shop, likely the residence, and quite probably the neighbor's house. The wife would be quite ill over the mess. Plus many of my models date from the '50s and '60s. Since they're in the same building as the shop, those older and "one of a kinds" would be a total loss.
> 
> ...


Sometimes a reader will interpret words in a way the author didn't intend. So care should be taken when writing about subjects of consequence to ensure clarity. On that note; I was never making a case for making anything 100% safe or to not take risks. It was about taking sensible precautions to possibly avoid an unnecessary, agonizing death.
PS. Thank you for your Service to our country.


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## Eddyde (Jul 13, 2021)

Ultradog MN said:


> In this whole thread there is a lot of fear - over a tiny piece of asbestos, which is inside an enclosed motor control, that hasn't been opened in how many years and won't be opened again for how long?
> Your allusion to cyanide was pure hyperbole, intended to instill fear in others.
> Yep. Just looking at asbestos in a photograph behind glass is enough to cause mesothelioma and you will immediately die a horrible death and your loved ones will be cast away like leaves upon a stormy sea.
> I see the same kind of fearsome talk on the tractor boards and it makes me wonder how some people can get out from under their bed in the morning...


No. Fear would be to say 'never mess with old electrical equipment as it might contain asbestos' I nor anyone else said that or anything like that here.
All I and others are saying is 'if you discover asbestos, either safely remove it or encapsulate it so it won't possibly harm you or someone else in the future'. That is a common sense precaution, not fear. 
The cyanide comment was an analogy to illustrate the difference in perception between immediate and future consequences. No fear mongering, just facts.


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## Braeden P (Jul 13, 2021)

I’m going to come across a lot more asbestos so why not cover as much as possible so that my contact is limited. I’m going to buy more old machines and will cover up the asbestos. I don’t want to have to deal with my mom saying that I can’t use a machine because it has asbestos.


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## MrCrankyface (Jul 13, 2021)

Quite a lot of varying opinions so figured I'd throw mine in as well.  

Asbestos has been scientifically proven to be dangerous to your health, possibly causing both cancer and asbestosis.
Whilst you won't get sick from being near it "once", why risk it?
I think you did the right thing Braeden P by spraying it over so it can't get airbourne.
Staying safe and having fun is about reducing risk, in this case the way to reduce the risk was both easy and cheap.

It's not a question of fear, it's about making smart choices with your life, so you can enjoy it more and/or for longer.


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## Ultradog MN (Jul 13, 2021)

Eddyde said:


> No fear mongering, just facts.


Yes you stated facts.
But facts about extreme examples and hyperbole equals fear mongering.


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## vtcnc (Jul 13, 2021)

Ultradog MN said:


> In this whole thread there is a lot of fear - over a tiny piece of asbestos, which is inside an enclosed motor control, that hasn't been opened in how many years and won't be opened again for how long?
> Your allusion to cyanide was pure hyperbole, intended to instill fear in others.
> Yep. Just looking at asbestos in a photograph behind glass is enough to cause mesothelioma and you will immediately die a horrible death and your loved ones will be cast away like leaves upon a stormy sea.
> I see the same kind of fearsome talk on the tractor boards and it makes me wonder how some people can get out from under their bed in the morning...


The thing that strikes me as worthy of worrying about harmful substances is the situational awareness someone brings to the hazard as it is presented. And since most people suffer survivor bias, and therefore do not worry about such matters until they need to, it seems worth pointing out to the general public that - in certain situations - asbestos is harmful to humans under certain circumstances.

I know a lot of people who used to wash their hands and lunch utensils in tricloroethylene after their breaks. I know a lot of those people are still alive, but I also know some of those people who died of cancer. Does that mean triclor killed them? Maybe, maybe not. But now that we know the hazards of triclor, it really doesn't make sense to accept the risk does it? It's a great degreaser and general solvent; unfortunately for the manufacturers people are worth having around more than having a good degreaser handy. The same can be said of asbestos.

I know a little about this not because I'm smart, but I'm smart enough to listen and of course, Google. Also, experience. Asbestos must be abated wet, not dry. A few years ago, we had to pave our parking lot that was decades overdue. We are located in Burlington, Vermont. You can imagine the environmental regulations that everyone invokes and makes up when somebody wants to build a tree house in that city. The local fox can come out of its hole and start a petition saying the tree house will block its view of the sunset. I digress. Upon digging up the storm water drains and fixing the grade for drainage, we discovered an 18" asbestos lined stormwater pipe. Why was it lined with asbestos? Nobody knew. We were just left with a problem to deal with. We could have left it there according to asbestos abatement law. But our flooding would continue if we did so. The law also dictates how asbestos is abated; simply stated, it must be done so the asbestos does not become airborne. That requires basically two options, a) wet handling or b) encapsulation. Basically, the way we approach and handle asbestos is dictated by the law. There is no getting around this.

In Braeden's case, I would have left it alone. Of course, if you are worried about it - and it would be unnecessarily worrying *given the situation* - then spraying the coating over it works too. It is just an extra measure. I see no harm in that. And Braeden would have been absolutely fine removing the asbestos using a wet removal method. And if he chose to remove it with an orbital sander, he would probably be "fine" for the foreseeable future, but now that we know the risks associated with that method, why risk it for yourself and others around you?

The creeping harm that I do see is when we are made aware of things that are harmful and we willfully ignore them - unknowingly playing to our cognitive biases and ignoring reality. Especially if the machine is sold to someone who is willfully unaware or reckless when it comes to handling hazardous materials in the future.


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## WobblyHand (Jul 13, 2021)

I think most of us have been around asbestos.  It was (and is) pretty useful.  It's also a long term hazard.  That being said, encapsulation is fine for control for most uses.  Let's not get carried away with fear.  Handled safely and with caution, everything will be fine.  Braeden gets it.

Funny you should mention tractors.  When I was at Tuckahoe, I saw hundreds of old tractors.  Since they were old, they lacked modern safety features.  As an aside, many of them were truly works of art.  Made me think of a co-worker who died in a tractor roll over in 1980.  His wife found him pinned under the tractor in the field, he had been there overnight.  I still miss him.  Whether safety features would have saved him, I'll never know.  All of these things we work/play with can be dangerous, please be careful.


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## jwmay (Jul 13, 2021)

Wow this got interesting. The OP sprayed the stuff with some rubber stuff and put it back together days ago.


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## vtcnc (Jul 13, 2021)

Bi11Hudson said:


> First off, it wasn't intended as advice. Further, my comment was not "I didn't get sick so it isn't a problem". It was more a matter of what wll get to me first, the asbestos, the foundry sand and sandblasting(silicosis), my tobacco which I dearly enjoy, or riding a motorcycle across two states to have a cup of coffee at 03: AM, or something entirely unexpected. In essence, I faced my mortality when I was in the military ('68-'74) and am not afraid of dying. There are so many ways to expire, the only safe method is to stay in bed and have 24/7 attendance.
> 
> But even that isn't 100% safe. So we arise each day, give thanks for being alive, and pursue our day doing whatever we consider a priority. My concern isn't for my life, it is for the machines surrounding me. Washing parts in gasoline while smoking doesn't scare me, but I don't do it because the fire would burn down the shop, likely the residence, and quite probably the neighbor's house. The wife would be quite ill over the mess. Plus many of my models date from the '50s and '60s. Since they're in the same building as the shop, those older and "one of a kinds" would be a total loss.
> 
> ...


Interesting take on mortality! I for one, am glad you are around to share your life experiences - for what my opinion is worth!

I just blathered on about people being willfully unaware or ignoring the risks. I hope nobody takes offense to what I'm saying there. I think your view of the world is unique. You are in fact aware of the risks and have accepted them and the consequences that come with them.


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## nnam (Jul 13, 2021)

Great info.  But how do I know something is asbestos?  Is it spongy like insulation or string like fiberglass?


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## stupoty (Jul 13, 2021)

nnam said:


> Great info.  But how do I know something is asbestos?  Is it spongy like insulation or string like fiberglass?


That is probably one of the biggest issues with asbestos , it was added to everything.

Lino flooring , Bakerlite , concrete , road surfaces , brake linings , cement board flue pipe , pipe lagging , space shuttle fireproof blankets  

Stu

also old 78 rpm records ,


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## pontiac428 (Jul 13, 2021)

Paint, mastic, grout, joint compound, glazing putty, contactor bodies, baby formula...  anything silica is used for today.


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## RJSakowski (Jul 13, 2021)

I worked for six years as an analytical chemist for a battery manufacturer and dealt with many chemicals that could be dangerous if not handled properly.  One task that fell on me was disposing of 10 lbs. of sodium cyanide that the machine ship no longer wanted.   PPE in the '70's consisted of safety glasses and a lab coat.  I did some research and determined that cyanide could be completely neutralized with common bleach, converting it into NaCl, CO2, N2, and H2O.  This was done in a fume hood , slowly adding the bleach to prevent excessive foaming from the gas generation over a period of several days.

The point of this story is proper handling of hazardous materials is the key.  This includes respect for the material, knowledge of its properties, and its impact on the environment, on living things, and immediate and long term consequences of mishandling.  Much of the fear of various substances is propagated by lawyers, looking to become overnight multimillionaires through class action lawsuits.  This not the best source for understanding the impact of a material. MSDS sheets are a good guide.  They not only detail safe exposure limits but also proper containment practices.  When dealing with any hazardous material, it is also a good idea to understand the best way to deal with an accident resulting in inhalation, ingestion, or contact with skin or eyes.  For new products that information is often on the label.  For older materials, one should understand the proper mitigation before using.  

Over the past sixty years, I have dealt with many substances that are considered extremely hazardous and I would be lying if I said there hadn't been any accidents.  The only time that I had a visit to the ER was when I accidentally got some hydrofluoric acid on my fingers. Aside from being a strong acid, it has the ability to dissolve bone.  The acid had gotten in around my fingernails and despite the immediate flushing with water, continued to burn.  The trip to the ER was a precaution, the best action being to pack the affected area with a baking soda slurry. (If we had latex or nitrile gloves back then, it would have prevented tha trip.)  I continually handle materials which are potentially hazardous without fear but with knowledge and respect.


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## Eddyde (Jul 13, 2021)

Ultradog MN said:


> Yes you stated facts.
> But facts about extreme examples and hyperbole equals fear mongering.


Sorry I frightened you.


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## Ultradog MN (Jul 13, 2021)

I guess you guys would never want to come to my house.
I have a vintage fire extinguisher in the kitchen with, heaven forbid, Carbontetrachloride in it.  The thermostat for the furnace has mercury in it.
Since the old part of the house was built in1922 I'm sure there is some lead based paint inside.
The copper water lines  probably have some lead in the solder too as do a couple of old brass valves. 
I also installed two antique toilets - cause I liked them - and both of them take about 4 gallons to flush which will likely destroy the planet.
Then there is the one lighting circuit which is not grounded and none of the bedroom outlets are on AFCIs. My shower valves are not tempering type and the 7 hardwired smoke and 2 CO detectors I was required to install are mostly all disabled.
There is probably some asbestos and loaded guns somewhere in there too.
Going down the list, I have several vintage machines in my shop which likely have asbestos in the motor switches, my paint is not stored in an OSHA approved cabinet,  my rigging chains do not have OSHA  tags on them, none of my angle grinders have guards on them and the 3 phase from my rpc isn't quite to code. And I don't wear safety glasses all the time.
As to my tractors, on two of them the neutral safety switches are jumpered out/defeated and none of the 3 have ROPS or seat belts.
Speaking of seat belts, it is a moving violation to be caught without them on so I wear them in the daytime but almost never at night.
And worst of all, I didn't get the Vax.
The horror!
Meanwhile I go through life, fearless and carefree. Blithely even.
I'm sure I will die someday but I doubt it will be due to any of the things I've mentioned.


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## WobblyHand (Jul 13, 2021)

My friend, you can do as you please.  But in my humble opinion, it isn't a great idea to publicly state your disregard for fire or house safety - it could get your insurance claims denied, especially if found out after the post fire inspection.  

I too live in an old house, it was built in 1851.  Yep, some of my knob and tube wiring is still active.  I have steam heat with cast iron radiators and old plumbing.  At one time there was asbestos covering the steam pipes, especially around the boiler.  It was removed long before I moved in.  Had to replace that insulation to get the heating to work properly.  There's lead paint in places.  Lead in the solder too.  No AFCI either.  Am I afraid the sky going to fall?  No.  But if I upgrade things it is to code.  The code is there for a reason - it is to reduce accidents and incidents that occured in the past.  About the lead solder - yeah we run the water a little before using it for drinking or cooking to flush out any dissolved lead.  It's what you do in an old house.

We all live with risk.  Many times it looks like the new stuff has gone overboard trying to save us.  At times we have to defeat safeties.  If I have to remove a guard to do something, I usually replace it after I am done.  I want a reminder that I am doing something hazardous.  A little fear is a good thing, baseless paralyzing fear is not.  Be safe.


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## Braeden P (Jul 13, 2021)

Ultradog MN said:


> Speaking of seat belts, it is a moving violation to be caught without them on so I wear them in the daytime but almost never at night.







__





						Seatbelts - Saving thousands of lives around the world everyday... - News and Blogs - articles on road safety and youth - Yours
					

The Surreal Poster Series places one of its focuses on the importance of seatbelts. A seat belt, sometimes called a safety belt, is a safety harness des...



					www.youthforroadsafety.org


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## Boswell (Jul 13, 2021)

Braeden P said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wow.


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## jwmay (Jul 13, 2021)

Horses for courses or some such. You guys really type alot when you get warmed up.


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## Eddyde (Jul 13, 2021)

Some people have more balls than brains...


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## Eddyde (Jul 13, 2021)

... Myself included, though mainly in my younger years.


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## vtcnc (Jul 13, 2021)

Eddyde said:


> Some people have more balls than brains...


I think that is true for most of us...you get kicked enough they eventually stay up top and that is all we're left with.


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## Bi11Hudson (Jul 13, 2021)

Hold my beer a minute. . .

Your thanks "for my service" comes about 50 years late. When I came back to the States, kids were throwing bladders filled with blood (??chicken, pig??) Trashed a couple of sets of full dress blues.(expensive) All of my "career", I have pursued electricity. Marine electrician, industrial electrician, instrumentation (mechanical), electronics, computers, experimental(?). I have traveled for Wang Computers, Pacific Rim. Made repairs that are considered replacement only. (Control Data hard disk heads) Landed in a Beech D-18 when the pilot could not get the landing gear down. Rode through a typhoon eye.(class 4 hurricane) And many more "adventures(?)", many life threatening. We live 'til we die, whether it is at the age of 25 or 85. (My father's family averaged to 90, give or take)

There are innumerable hazards in life, many of them plain stupid. There are many more "manufactured" hazards where lawyers have generated fear of something relatively benign. *Asbestos is dangerous*, that was known long before it went to court. So is any number of other consumer products. By the way, it is "Trichloroethane, 1,1,1,Tech" that is deadly, "Trichloroethelene" will just get you drunk. If I get a strong whiff of trichlo, I will probably fall over dead. It  generates "phosgene" gas when used around water or is hot. But with all that in mind, I still use it. Rarely, because what I have is not replacable. And *under very controled circumstances*. But I use it where it fits best, where nothing else will do the job.

I watch people racing up and down US 11, in the rain, many with bald tires, and a beer or coke at hand. Are those people any less dangerous than deadly chemicals? And I and my family have no control over such beyond staying inside, at home. I rewired my own house. Codes are not standards, they are merely the minimum acceptable. My system will exceed any code, anywhere. But is not acceptable most anywhere because I am not "licensed". And the authorities that issue that license? Many have a problem reading or writing. Rant complete. . . Life goes on, we live 'til we die, whether it is at the age of 25 or 85.

.


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