# Anyone know anything about Hurco mills?



## alloy (Jan 17, 2015)

Found this on CL.  It's in my price range.  I've heard about Hurco machines, but had zero experience with them.

Anyone hear have any experience with this type of mill and control?

http://spokane.craigslist.org/hvo/4850711046.html


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## JimDawson (Jan 17, 2015)

There is nothing wrong with Hurco mills, good machines.  I see one glaring red flag on the controller 

''[FONT=Bitstream Vera Serif, Times New Roman, serif]FYI, mill takes 15 minutes to warm up and boot.''[/FONT]

That means that the power supply is probably failing.  It should be replaceable with a standard computer power supply.  A lowball offer might be in order.

If you want a CNC controller conversion project, this would be a good start.  If I needed another CNC, I would take a hard look at this one.


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## alloy (Jan 17, 2015)

I saw that also.  Problem is I know nothing about repairing a controller.

I was looking at the Centroid controllers and they look pretty nice. 

I guess the part I like about this mill is that it's a full 3 axis and uses cat 40 tooling. I have  lot of cat 40 here left over from my shop.  Ideally I'd like to have a 
CNC mill that I could use manually, and I'd sell my Bridgeport.  It's kind of a pain to have to write a program for everything you do other than jog it by the hand wheel.


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## JimDawson (Jan 17, 2015)

alloy said:


> I saw that also.  *Problem is I know nothing about repairing a controller.*
> 
> I was looking at the Centroid controllers and they look pretty nice.
> 
> ...



If it's just the power supply, then that should be pretty easy to replace.  When mine failed, I just grabbed a standard computer power supply off the shelf and stuffed it in there.  There is nothing wrong with the Centroid controllers either.

If you want to be able to switch back and forth between manual and CNC, then this is not the mill you want.  Also most of the CNC mills with hand wheels are not easy to switch to full manual on the z-axis.  That takes a little outside-the-box thinking like I did with mine.  I just hit the E-stop, and shift a lever to disengage the z-axis drive, then I'm in full manual, or I can run it as a 2-axis for manual drilling if I want.


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## alloy (Jan 17, 2015)

I realize it will be problematic switching back and fourth from CNC to manual.  That would be the ideal situation for me, but probably not very practical.  

Ive read some good about the Hurco control, but mostly not good.  From what I read they are based on a 386 board and from and those are going for several grand now from what one person said.  Who would have ever believed all those old computers I threw away would be worth anything now.

I found a Fadal VMC 20 on CL with tool changer for $11K. http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bfd/4848205681.html

I run one of these at work all day so I know the machine very well.  But it's old and a DC servo machine. We have a lot of problems with it, just had the spindle drive rebuilt, twice. Second time was under warranty, but it was still down for a month both times.  I know our other Fadals are AC servos and we have less problems with those.  I do see there are retro fits for the Fadals, but I also heard they are having problems getting the tool changer to work with a retrofit controller.  

For now I'm just looking and thinking about my options. This one is close and looks like really sturdy iron.  I'll wait awhile and maybe low ball him on it. If he goes for it I'll be giving you a call and owe you more favors


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## countryguy (Jan 17, 2015)

Being the Newb-  I think it looks pretty darn interesting.  The Hurco that is.   I doubt it will last long?  Seems they all go so quick.  At least here in the MidWest they do.   Hmmmm   15mins to boot could be the internal EEPROM read tests, Memory tests, I/O bits and this that and the other-    If you get an explanation from them on this - Shout back.  I'm interested!   
As for the swapping of the supply-  Quite easy.  We can help you there.    I'm in the 1st phases of a SuperMax Allen Bradly Bandit III DC Servo to AjaxCNC change over.  1 thing I learned to ask if you do call is about the encoder resolution.  Mine was 500L quad out or 2000ppr to the Bandit.  I needed upwards of 8000ppr according to the AjacCNC and DSP design I was told.   So I am now upgrading those myself.  All easy and fun,  but more $$ and more Time I find so short already! 

If you go w/ the Ajax, the power supply setup should be much less demanding.  PC supply is a switch mode -vs- these older and $$ linear / Xformer based types.  And,  you can just wire in a VFD  and go 2pole 220VAC as opposed to the 3 phase. I'll wager there are two or 3 different power supplies in there. Same as my Bandit III that I am yanking out this weekend.   TTL massive boards that probably suck 6A just to boot up LOL !  
Ohh- $1K rotary phase converter he mentioned.  $1K seemed really steep? that's usually in the 15hp range from American Rotary new! 

Anywho-  By the time I'm done w/ this conversion on my Supermax YMC-30 for $3K,  Plus Ajax I'll be in the $5-6K range and I think that's pretty good for a state of the art Centroid setup.   My mill was pampered too.   This just looks pretty!     PS-  We all owe Jim!  and he's superman on this site if you ask me.   I'm getting the hang of it all and he's been a great help there.   shout back or PM me if you go down the Ajax path sometime down the road.  Would love to chat on that.   Mine will be here soon. 

Best, Jeff/CG


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## alloy (Jan 17, 2015)

The $6k price you have in your machine sounds really good, especially  with a new control.  A new control is what I envision for the Hurco or another mill like it.  But the $6 asking price for the Hurco plus a new control retrofit seems pricey for what I'd end up with.


I had Bridgeport CNC Boss series mills and the iron was fantastic, but the control left a lot to be desired. We retrofitted them with the AHAH setup but being stepper machines and got lost a lot, cost me a bunch of money in broken tools and scrap materials.  
Like I say for $11k locally I can get a VMC with a tool changer.  Catch is it's pretty big and heavy for a 2 car garage. So that's one reason a CNC knee mill looks good for me.


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## JimDawson (Jan 17, 2015)

I'm thinking that the Fadal might be a tad large for your garage.  But with a shoe horn it might fit. :lmao:
 I'll be happy to help out with the controller if you get it.  I just did an area search for CNC mills, doesn't seem to be much for sale locally right now.  Just this one in Philomath  http://corvallis.craigslist.org/tls/4799432706.html  I'm trying to figure out what head it has on it, doesn't look exactly like a 2J2 or the Topwell clone of the 2J2.  Just a bit lighter machine than mine I think.


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## alloy (Jan 17, 2015)

I saw that mill.  Seems a little expensive for me especially with the older control, and it's only a 2 axis.  I guess it could be converted to a full 3, but at what cost.  I run 4 axis machines all day and I just can't envision raising and lowering the quill every time I make a cut. I guess I'm spoiled from running VMC's all these years.

Something will come along.  I've seen non running mills for under 2k, just have to be patient.


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## ecdez (Jan 18, 2015)

I've got a Hurco and the machine is great. (when it works, see http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...he-Hurco-that-s-quot-ready-to-make-parts-quot)


Machine has plenty of mass, hog lots of chips and is made with quality parts but in my case the electronics are 30+ years old and starting to show it.  I'm planning a retro but if I had known I needed to do one I would have offered lees to purchase or perhaps even walked.  Once I get it working again I'll be very pleased with it but something for you to consider too is the possibility of having to do a retro some day.


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## alloy (Jan 18, 2015)

That is a saga alright.  I hope you get it all sorted out.

Have you decided on which  retrofit kit to go with?  As I recall Jim doesn't seem to like the Mach upgrade very well I don't think.  I haven't looked into the different kits much yet.

I guess if I do get a CNC mill my plan would be to retrofit it before I start making parts for people that depend on me for on time deliveries.  At work we are on overtime now in the shop. First time in 3 years we have done that. The owner told us if we don't have the product our customers will go elsewhere, and it would be very hard to win their business back. I completely agree with his thinking and this is big in my decision to retrofit first.  

I added a subscription to your thread. I will be watching to see what you end up doing.


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## JimDawson (Jan 18, 2015)

alloy said:


> Have you decided on which  retrofit kit to go with?  As I recall Jim doesn't seem to like the Mach upgrade very well I don't think.
> 
> I guess if I do get a CNC mill my plan would be to retrofit it before I start making parts for people that depend on me for on time deliveries.



I might change my mind on Mach3 if using closed loop steppers.  We'll see how the new Mach4 works out.  I would also be happy to give you my control software, but there are some down sides to that in that it is not exactly industry standard and requires it's own post processor.  I could make it compatible with the Fanuc post but I have been too lazy to do it.  It does have a lot of nice features the make it more user friendly.

I highly recommend NOT doing what I did:  I did my retrofit right in the middle of a production run when my old Anilam controller failed.  I never took the fixture off of the table and did the change over in a day and a half.  But I'm crazy like that.:nuts:

When you do get a machine, you are welcome to drop it at my shop, and I'll help you do the conversion here.


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## bloomingtonmike (Jan 29, 2015)

That machine looks very similar to my Millport 1050. I did a ajax centroid allinonedc retrofit. It is not cheap but I really like it. With the centroid mpg you can easily control all the axis like it was manual. I was unsure of why folks said the Z was difficult with a conversion.


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## JimDawson (Jan 30, 2015)

bloomingtonmike said:


> I was unsure of why folks said the Z was difficult with a conversion.



The normal way of driving the quill is with a ball screw that replaces the quill stop screw and the assembly covers the entire front of the head.  The only reason the Z was a bit tricky on mine is that I wanted to maintain full manual operation of the mill, with a quick change over.  My quill stop hardware was not disturbed and is fully functional for manual operation.

There is one Z-axis conversion kit, from a fellow in Arizona,  that that allows you to disengage the ball screw from the quill, but you have to remove the cover, then remove the attaching screws.  I designed mine to be able to disengage the quill from the drive by shifting a lever.  I can switch between manual and auto in about 10 seconds.  I have the option of switching from full manual, 2 axis CNC, or 3 axis CNC in a matter of seconds, and can do it at any point in the operation.  Very handy for the type of work that I do.


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## alloy (Jan 30, 2015)

I would like a CNC mill that was full 3 axis and had the capability of going manual, but it doesn't look like that is very practical for me.  My space it at a premium, and I'd like to sell my manual if I get a CNC, but if the CNC goes down  I'm out of business for my transmission conversions.  So I'll have to find a way to have two mills in my garage somehow.


I have been looking at his mill.  He's not far from me and the mill uses Universal 200 Quick Switch holders and I have a lot of those here.  I like that it has a new retrofit on the control.    

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231451210923?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## JimDawson (Jan 31, 2015)

Keep looking, you'll find one.  I just kind of tripped over mine.  The other option is to just convert a standard machine, a lot of those around.  Find a good deal and then just do the change over time, then when you get it done, sell your other one.  The offer to do the CNC conversion in my shop is still open.


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## alloy (Jan 31, 2015)

Jim,

Something may have just come up actually.  I just may be taking you up on your offer soon 

Check your inbox in a few.


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## bloomingtonmike (Feb 1, 2015)

You guys mean a full conversion of a manual mill not a retrofit of a cnc mill which is what I did. Sorry for not thinking that through. Mine was an "easy" conversion as the machine was a cnc machine already in 1987.

Mikie






JimDawson said:


> The normal way of driving the quill is with a ball screw that replaces the quill stop screw and the assembly covers the entire front of the head.  The only reason the Z was a bit tricky on mine is that I wanted to maintain full manual operation of the mill, with a quick change over.  My quill stop hardware was not disturbed and is fully functional for manual operation.
> 
> There is one Z-axis conversion kit, from a fellow in Arizona,  that that allows you to disengage the ball screw from the quill, but you have to remove the cover, then remove the attaching screws.  I designed mine to be able to disengage the quill from the drive by shifting a lever.  I can switch between manual and auto in about 10 seconds.  I have the option of switching from full manual, 2 axis CNC, or 3 axis CNC in a matter of seconds, and can do it at any point in the operation.  Very handy for the type of work that I do.


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## JimDawson (Feb 1, 2015)

bloomingtonmike said:


> You guys mean a full conversion of a manual mill not a retrofit of a cnc mill which is what I did. Sorry for not thinking that through. Mine was an "easy" conversion as the machine was a cnc machine already in 1987.
> 
> Mikie




Nice machine!  

Here is a write up of what I did for my Z-Axis.  It holds 0.0001 consistently.  I am not aware of this ever being done like this before.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...CNC-Conversion?p=183002&viewfull=1#post183002


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