# It’s been a year in the new garage/shop



## Janderso

Hey all,
This forum gives us an outlet to discuss our shops with like minded people. Very few of my friends would appreciate this topic.
After the fire, my wife and I were living in an apartment for a short few months. We bought this home and immediately started to make it our own.
The garage received insulation and lighting before any equipment was brought in. The mini-split came next.
Bob Korves and Jim George helped me bring in my lathe, mill and surface grinder.
I thought I had a good lay out but There were a few areas that were tight and not useable.
After several months I started thinking, what if?
Yesterday I moved the lathe 90 degrees and moved the surface grinder and mill to allow more space.
Now I have full access to my 5 X 5 welding/utility table. I have aisles to the driveway For access. I have an open work space near the grinder and welding table. I walk out to my shop and can’t believe I’m in the same space with all this equipment.
I have included before and after pics. Not in order. I had the lathe next to the garage door which mostly blocked access to the shop. Not any more!!
My wife and I are trying to decide if we should move when I retire.  I really don’t want to start over. I don’t know if I have the energy.


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## NCjeeper

I am trying to figure out my lay out now. Talking with the electrician on how to run the wiring. I am taking into account I need to be able to roll a gantry crane over my machines to load heavy stock and remove large chucks and such.


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## Cadillac

Looks amazing for all that you’ve been through and what it took to get you there. Great job layout looks good. You have some nice equipment there!


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## DavidR8

That looks fantastic! 
Like a Phoenix rising from the flames right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## C-Bag

I like the new layout better. Looks good. Nice equipment. Just me, but I would have though you would get a lot of glare when working on the lathe with the garage door open with the old setup. But maybe with the A/C you don't need or like to have it open? I'm way more cramped and can't hardly stand to work in the garage with the door closed.


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## middle.road

Janderso said:


> Hey all,
> This forum gives us an outlet to discuss our shops with like minded people. Very few of my friends would appreciate this topic.
> After the fire, my wife and I were living in an apartment for a short few months. We bought this home and immediately started to make it our own.
> The garage received insulation and lighting before any equipment was brought in. The mini-split came next.
> Bob Korves and Jim George helped me bring in my lathe, mill and surface grinder.
> I thought I had a good lay out but There were a few areas that were tight and not useable.
> After several months I started thinking, what if?
> Yesterday I moved the lathe 90 degrees and moved the surface grinder and mill to allow more space.
> Now I have full access to my 5 X 5 welding/utility table. I have aisles to the driveway For access. I have an open work space near the grinder and welding table. I walk out to my shop and can’t believe I’m in the same space with all this equipment.
> I have included before and after pics. Not in order. I had the lathe next to the garage door which mostly blocked access to the shop. Not any more!!
> My wife and I are trying to decide if we should move when I retire.  I really don’t want to start over. I don’t know if I have the energy.


Has it been a year already?
I spy - some BA combination wrenches hanging by the garage door - was wondering if those were rescued from the fire?

""_My wife and I are trying to decide if we should move when I retire.  I really don’t want to start over. I don’t know if I have the energy._""
Isn't that the truth? 
I can't imagine how you two got through having to deal with the aftermath of the fire and finding a new place and setting up home & shop. 

After helping some friends last week, get their place cleared out after their house finally sold and the buyers wanted a quick closing, my tail was dragging.
I'm not sure I'd have the stamina or the energy to pack this place all up and relocate.


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## Janderso

Looking back at 2019 it was a blur. I wouldn’t want to do it again.
Quite a bit of the tools and machine tools were used and yes, the hanging wrenches were salvaged.
I haven’t shown what a great job my wife did of furnishing our home. We redid the landscaping in addition to everything else. We put a new roof on the home after we moved in.
It seemed an endless stream of, “some assembly required “, and taking boxes to the cardboard only dumpster.
We were very fortunate, it’s hard to complain when you are one of 14,000 homes and families that were lost and displaced.
Obviously our insurance company took good care of us. We were able to relocate and rebuild our lives without going into debt.

It hasn’t rained in two months here in Northern California. We are coming off two of the heaviest rain years and now this.
I fear it’s going to be another bad year for fire.
.If anyone knows a good rain dance, please.


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## mmcmdl

Janderso said:


> If anyone knows a good rain dance, please.



Hope this will help you out Jeff !


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## NCjeeper

I will send you all our rain. It has been horrible. Stays a constant soggy mess.


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## Janderso

mmcmdl said:


> Hope this will help you out Jeff !


That's a fine rain dance. Hope it works.
Thanks Dave!


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## mmcmdl

We're in the same boat with Jeeper , way to much rain . I would prefer snow over the rain .


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## middle.road

*squish, squish, squish*. <- The sound one makes when walking through the yard around here & up by Tom's.
Honey just took the dogs up the hill for a run. Neighbor next to us is the low spot with a large pond on the other side.
Guess where the mutts headed to? They are sopped.


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## Janderso

Found this pic of Bob Korves and Jim George carefully placing the lathe where it has been since last April.


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## matthewsx

Very nice looking shop with a great layout and fine tools

I have good friends who lost everything when the fires came through Sonoma, I had just helped him clean and organize everything but the only thing to survive were an old pickup and my race trailer that was stored there. 

Regarding layout, I've found that the only was is to make your best guess then adjust as needed after you lived with it for a while.

As for moving after retirement, why? Just get yourself an RV and visit any place you want.... 

Cheers,

John


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## Janderso

John,
You said it. Move in and work it out as you go.
You mentioned an RV. Our 2016 Lance travel trailer is parked at our property now. It was the only thing that came out unscathed.
The pics, the trailer after the fire with the fire resistant cover, my 2002 F-150 and my shop. There is a 2012 Hyundai in my shop too.


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## matthewsx

What is it with trailers?

Stuff can be replaced (mostly), people not so much. I'm glad you made it through and are thriving in your new space, too many others weren't as lucky

Here's a few pics of my friends place.







yet somehow my trailer survived....


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## DavidR8

My heart goes out to everyone that has suffered through the fires. 
I have only tangential experience with fires as my province has suffered from devastating fires for several years running. If I recall correctly several million hectares burned in 2018. 

I’d gladly sent you some Grade A Vancouver Island rain  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Janderso

Oh man.
What a terrible loss. There is no way your friend will recover financially from the investment he had in his shop.
I saw a burnt Model A on a two post hoist in the ruins of a home shop. Broke my heart.
That reminds me, I was suppose to call and up our contents coverage. Look at the money you guys have in your shops. Unless you have a supplement to your standard fire insurance you will only receive your content coverage limit if you are lucky.
You settle with your insurance, there is dwelling A, dwelling B, extended living and content coverage. If anybody want s to ask me questions please PM me.
In our case, we had to take $130,000 from our content money to buy the house. (There was such a high demand on houses after the fire, the prices went up 20% plus). That left our content replacement funds short by that amount. We did OK considering all my tools and machines were purchased with what was left in our content coverage.
Is that clear as mud?


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## middle.road

Clear as it can be when dealing with insurance companies.
Not right that 'price gouging' didn't cover real estate after a disaster, like it does in regards to retail products.


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## Janderso

middle.road said:


> Clear as it can be when dealing with insurance companies.
> Not right that 'price gouging' didn't cover real estate after a disaster, like it does in regards to retail products.


Some companies offer a policy that includes market conditions in the case of a hurricane or wild fires.
They also include rebuilding an older home that includes all the expensive upgrades to insulation and new codes-taxes etc. In our case, we are not rebuilding on our property. It will just sit there for a while.


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## JRaut

Janderso said:


> That reminds me, I was suppose to call and up our contents coverage. Look at the money you guys have in your shops. Unless you have a supplement to your standard fire insurance you will only receive your content coverage limit if you are lucky.
> You settle with your insurance, there is dwelling A, dwelling B, extended living and content coverage. If anybody want s to ask me questions please PM me.
> In our case, we had to take $130,000 from our content money to buy the house. (There was such a high demand on houses after the fire, the prices went up 20% plus). That left our content replacement funds short by that amount. We did OK considering all my tools and machines were purchased with what was left in our content coverage.
> Is that clear as mud?


Jeff,

I'm glad things seem to be on the up-and-up for you. I really can't imagine what a ride the past (almost) two years have been like for you and the folks up there. I live in Minneapolis these days, but I lived in the Bay Area for about a decade, including during the 2018 fire season.

Recently I've been taking a home inventory to make sure I've got my ducks in a row in case of a catastrophic loss. Specifically, I've been taking a bunch of photos and building a spreadsheet with information and descriptions of my big-ticket items.

Well, I'm working on my shop right now, which has a lot of big-ticket items.

The main reason I'm doing this is for insurance purposes. And I know you're not an insurance agent or anything like that, but you've probably got more experience in this area than just about anyone else on this site (unfortunately).

I've got a pretty standard policy. Other than Dwelling A and B coverage, I've got Personal Property coverage that is supposed to pay out immediately the Actual Cash Value of the lost items, and will eventually pay the Replacement Cost (i.e., new) if you actually purchase a new replacement.

That brings me to things like my Bridgeport (which I know you had). Mine is a 2-axis CNC Bridgeport, which was born about 30 years ago, but is frankly in excellent condition --- ways still show flaking, no peck marks in the table, yadda, yadda, yadda.

So am I to understand that insurance would pay out (say) $5,000 immediately in the event of a catastrophic fire in my shop, and would permit me to buy a brand-spanking-new 2-axis CNC Bridgeport or equivalent at (say) $35,000?

If you don't mind my asking, what was your experience on this front? I notice from your photos that you've got a nice looking (though used) Sharp as a replacement vertical mill, and similar story for your other equipment. Did the topic of buying brand new equipment come up in discussions with your adjuster?

Many of us, myself included, buy our stuff at auctions and estate sales at a hefty discount. Purchasing brand new replacements of the tools, machines, and measurement equipment in my shop would cost a petty penny compared to what I've paid for it all.

Anyway, just curious about your experience if you're up for sharing.


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## 7milesup

matthewsx said:


> What is it with trailers?
> 
> Stuff can be replaced (mostly), people not so much. I'm glad you made it through and are thriving in your new space, too many others weren't as lucky
> 
> Here's a few pics of my friends place.
> 
> View attachment 314017
> 
> 
> View attachment 314018
> 
> 
> yet somehow my trailer survived....
> 
> View attachment 314019



Lives are more important that material possessions but when I see pictures like this it just makes me gasp.


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## DiscoDan

mmcmdl said:


> We're in the same boat with Jeeper , way to much rain . I would prefer snow over the rain .



Dave, don't make me drive up there and smack you!


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## Janderso

I did end up increasing our content coverage in our new home by $75,000. It costs $63 a year for the extra coverage. With the extra money, it gives us a cushion for the shop inventory.
Your $35,000 CNC/Bridgeport unless specifically covered under a seperate rider would come out of content. I was told any one machine, diamond ring, stereo system, would limit out at $2,000.
When you look at your Dwelling replacement amount, our content coverage was 56%  of that number.
You just have to decide if it's enough. They will allow you to increase your coverage. When they bid policies, they don't add extras to be competitive.
Jraut, regarding the $5,000 payout, your carrier will provide enough money for initial expenses, clothes, toiletries, a hotel etc.
Your Policy will have Dwelling A, Dwelling B, Contents and a consequential budget.
Our consequential budget was $85,000. That is for living expenses while the home is being rebuilt. We didn't use very much of it.
It's great you are planning. I hope you never need it.


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## mickri

I like your new layout with one exception.  I like to do my welding as much as possible out on the driveway or just inside the garage door.  I would swap the lathe and the welding table.  That would also help to keep the mess from welding out of the interior of the shop.  Just a suggestion.


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## HarryJM

Looking good and it seems to me that you have to work in a new space for awhile before you get that aha moment and tweak it to make it flow better. FYI - moving does not get any easier with age.


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## Janderso

mickri said:


> I like your new layout with one exception.  I like to do my welding as much as possible out on the driveway or just inside the garage door.  I would swap the lathe and the welding table.  That would also help to keep the mess from welding out of the interior of the shop.  Just a suggestion.


That is a good idea. Thinking through the tooling and shelving layout, hmm, that may just give more room too.I've been consolidating. I got rid of two stands to give up some floor space. One was my Baldor tool room grinder and the other is my buffer wire wheel.
I have to find a place for my new Delta 14" metal wood band saw. It's on a moveable cart that sits and locks with a foot lever

It's not the welding so much for me it's the plasma cutter and grinding. I would love to direct those sparks outside. I usually lay things on the floor and point outside.
Small shops can be challenging.
I have been thinking of selling the big mill for something smaller.


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## DavidR8

Janderso said:


> That is a good idea. Thinking through the tooling and shelving layout, hmm, that may just give more room too.I've been consolidating. I got rid of two stands to give up some floor space. One was my Baldor tool room grinder and the other is my buffer wire wheel.
> I have to find a place for my new Delta 14" metal wood band saw. It's on a moveable cart that sits and locks with a foot lever
> 
> It's not the welding so much for me it's the plasma cutter and grinding. I would love to direct those sparks outside. I usually lay things on the floor and point outside.
> Small shops can be challenging.
> I have been thinking of selling the big mill for something smaller.


Indeed, the more grinding I do, the more I am aware of the fire hazard from sparks. I'm considering making a 'blast shield' using a couple of pieces of 24" x 18" plywood joined by a piano hinge. Stand it up in a 'V' so that it catches the grinding debris.


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## Bob Korves

mickri said:


> I like your new layout with one exception.  I like to do my welding as much as possible out on the driveway or just inside the garage door.  I would swap the lathe and the welding table.  That would also help to keep the mess from welding out of the interior of the shop.  Just a suggestion.


Besides the dirty grinding tools, I also place my wood cutting equipment near the roll up door, and roll machines out into the driveway as needed when weather allows.  Surface grinder and other gritty equipment all live in a corner that has a clear curtain that can be pulled around them help keep the grit out of the other machines.  Just getting started on building a new shop in our new (to us) home, got married and sold both our houses to get a fresh start, the new shop will use the same ideas...


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## Janderso

Have you broken ground on the shop Bob?
How's the new home coming along?


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## 7milesup

For what it is worth, about two years ago I was doing some TIG welding and stopped for a moment to hit a piece with the 4.5 inch grinder.  Went back to welding and after a minute I started to smell something burning.  Lifted the helmet and sure enough, a large cardboard box was in flames. I was happy I had my welding gear on, just a matter of picking it up and running to the door. That was a wake up call for me. No grinding in the shop. Ever.


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## DavidR8

7milesup said:


> For what it is worth, about two years ago I was doing some TIG welding and stopped for a moment to hit a piece with the 4.5 inch grinder.  Went back to welding and after a minute I started to smell something burning.  Lifted the helmet and sure enough, a large cardboard box was in flames. I was happy I had my welding gear on, just a matter of picking it up and running to the door. That was a wake up call for me. No grinding in the shop. Ever.


That's definitely a sobering wake-up call! 
I think this is a real challenge for small home shops. How do we do the work we want to do while maintaining safe working conditions? 
Easy enough to grind outside but plasma cutting seems less portable. Stick seems like a non-starter also. I have zero experience with plasma as I don't have a plasma cutter.


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## Janderso

It's something I do before I start up the welding or the plasma is look for anything that will burn. It's not uncommon to see a rag on fire or a piece of paper.
I don't want any fire.


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## Janderso

DavidR8 said:


> Easy enough to grind outside but plasma cutting seems less portable


That's why I built the patent pending (just kidding) Plasma drawer.


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## Bob Korves

Janderso said:


> Have you broken ground on the shop Bob?
> How's the new home coming along?


Not breaking ground yet, Jeff, but we are drawing plans.  My wife's brother (also named Bob) is a recently retired architect who is doing the plans, which makes it relatively dead easy to get them past the county building department.  We are working out the details now.  We want to get the shop closed in before the rains start if at all possible...  We are still settling in to our new home and are getting there, but there are still items that need to find their permanent places.  That will be helped tremendously when we can move the machine shop stuff out of our 2 car garage, which is jammed full...


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## 7milesup

Bob Korves said:


> Not breaking ground yet, Jeff, but we are drawing plans.  My wife's brother (also named Bob) is a recently retired architect who is doing the plans, which makes it relatively dead easy to get them past the county building department.  We are working out the details now.  We want to get the shop closed in before the rains start if at all possible...  We are still settling in to our new home and are getting there, but there are still items that need to find their permanent places.  That will be helped tremendously when we can move the machine shop stuff out of our 2 car garage, which is jammed full...



An architect?  Just make it the same as mine...36x36.  Wait, maybe 36x46 because mine is too small.   Dangit... on second thought at least 40x66 with a loft and theater room.  Don't forget the wet bar, bathroom and and and...


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## mikey

Jeff, I never said it but my heart broke for you and your family when you showed us pics of that devastating fire. It's nice to know you're back on your feet and building towards the future again. I don't know that I would be able to do nearly as well.


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## mikey

Bob Korves said:


> Not breaking ground yet, Jeff, but we are drawing plans.  My wife's brother (also named Bob) is a recently retired architect who is doing the plans, which makes it relatively dead easy to get them past the county building department.  We are working out the details now.  We want to get the shop closed in before the rains start if at all possible...  We are still settling in to our new home and are getting there, but there are still items that need to find their permanent places.  That will be helped tremendously when we can move the machine shop stuff out of our 2 car garage, which is jammed full...



Awesome new, Bob, and it's good to hear you're doing well with your new life/new wife. My very best to you!


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## Bob Korves

7milesup said:


> An architect? Just make it the same as mine...36x36. Wait, maybe 36x46 because mine is too small. Dangit... on second thought at least 40x66 with a loft and theater room. Don't forget the wet bar, bathroom and and and...


This one will more likely end up at about 400 square feet or a little more (20'x20' as an example), plus loft storage, and the existing 2 car garage will try to stay mostly a garage.  A registered architect can get away with things in the plans that the average person would not be allowed to do.  The architect assumes some of the responsibility for the design and plans, so the county often goes easier on toeing the line with the rules.  I was once an architecture student (didn't finish it) and brother-in-law Bob and I were in the some of the same classes together...


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## 7milesup

I would suppose that things are a little different in California as far as zoning goes.  I had to get a permit for the house and a set of plans (didn't matter who drew them) to the county and that was about it.  I didn't need a permit for my shop.  In fact, my 22 acres is zoned agricultural, even though it is nothing but solid woods, which allows me to put up as many out buildings as I want without any permits. 
Was Bob your B-i-L when you were in school or did life just circle around and you found each other again?


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## Suzuki4evr

Janderso said:


> Hey all,
> This forum gives us an outlet to discuss our shops with like minded people. Very few of my friends would appreciate this topic.
> After the fire, my wife and I were living in an apartment for a short few months. We bought this home and immediately started to make it our own.
> The garage received insulation and lighting before any equipment was brought in. The mini-split came next.
> Bob Korves and Jim George helped me bring in my lathe, mill and surface grinder.
> I thought I had a good lay out but There were a few areas that were tight and not useable.
> After several months I started thinking, what if?
> Yesterday I moved the lathe 90 degrees and moved the surface grinder and mill to allow more space.
> Now I have full access to my 5 X 5 welding/utility table. I have aisles to the driveway For access. I have an open work space near the grinder and welding table. I walk out to my shop and can’t believe I’m in the same space with all this equipment.
> I have included before and after pics. Not in order. I had the lathe next to the garage door which mostly blocked access to the shop. Not any more!!
> My wife and I are trying to decide if we should move when I retire.  I really don’t want to start over. I don’t know if I have the energy.


Nice shop and machines. Enjoy my friend.


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## Aaron_W

Janderso said:


> Small shops can be challenging.
> I have been thinking of selling the big mill for something smaller.



Before you get too serious about that, look at the foot print of a smaller mill and compare to your current mill. Since I doubt you would be looking at anything smaller than my Clausing I can tell you how much space that takes up. Leaving room for full travel but not including the space for me standing in front of it, I have dedicated an area 4 feet deep, by 4 feet 8 " wide. Just a guess but if you went for something the size of Bob's Millrite, probably add another foot in each direction? How much area would you actually gain going to a smaller mill?
Height and getting into the shop were the major concerns that led me to a smaller mill (my wife made rare use of her veto power at the suggestion of cutting a hole in the kitchen floor above the shop).

Also keep in mind the table and travel tends to take up the largest area, but it moves so creative placement could provide some work area to either side of the mill, just have to move the table to the opposite end of travel. Also room below the table which can be used for storage, just ensure what ever goes there is chip tolerant. Looking at the photos from February it looks like you have a pretty good sized hole between the vertical mill and surface grinder, and behind the mill table. Could be a home for your drill press, horizontal mill or if on wheels a parking area for your new bandsaw. Just have to move the table to the right when you want access to that space. Another option would be a shop vac cubby, I know my shop vac is always under foot, as they take up so much room when not being used. Machine Tetris isn't limited to putting things on castors.  

I have my horizontal mill and vertical mill quite close together. Their table travel actually overlaps (good thing I only use one at a time) and if I need to get behind the machines I have to move at least one of the tables to their opposite extreme, and both if I actually need some room to work between them. I'm working on a low rolling cart to sit between them for storing the mill tooling in what is otherwise wasted space below the tables.
Similarly I built a low shelving unit for metal stock which lives behind the Clausing. I needed to leave room for the head to travel backwards but that left an area about 14" deep, 4 1/2 feet high and 4 feet wide that would have just been wasted space. The shelf is 4 feet wide x 4 feet tall and 12" deep so actually provides a decent storage area.



DavidR8 said:


> Indeed, the more grinding I do, the more I am aware of the fire hazard from sparks. I'm considering making a 'blast shield' using a couple of pieces of 24" x 18" plywood joined by a piano hinge. Stand it up in a 'V' so that it catches the grinding debris.



I weld in the yard outside of my shop. I have to rake and weed wack often, and wet down the area around where I'm working to help contain any fires. Welding I've started a few small fires in the short grass but slow moving and easily stamped out. The one slightly scary fire I started was cutting expanded metal with an angle grinder, that was like using a flame thrower. I always have the garden hose charged and ready, as well as have an ABC dry chem extinguisher, a pressurized water extinguisher and a shovel handy. I know some of the local firefighters and have no desire to give them any work.


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## Janderso

I was out in the shop this morning looking at repositioning the welding table and the lathe. I think I'll gain some space and move the sparks to the outside.
I don't know when I'll get around to it as I have to move/add the electrical box for the lathe. It would take my electrician son about thirty minutes and look professional. Me-well it will take longer. He bends conduit in his sleep.
I had another round of spinal shots. The dang steroids don't allow me to sleep. Another 1:45 up and running day.


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## Aaron_W

Janderso said:


> I had another round of spinal shots.



Ouch, that sounds fun.


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## Janderso

I'm working towards Radio frequency ablation. They burn the nerve receptors at the facets, or pain receptors. I have extreme stenosis in three lumbar vertebrae due to arthritis and bulging discs.. It sucks. I know many of you guys suffer as well.


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## Bob Korves

7milesup said:


> Was Bob your B-i-L when you were in school or did life just circle around and you found each other again?


No, I did not know her yet at that point.  Later on, when I met Bob again at a gathering with her along, we recognized each other right away, even after 25+ years.


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## Janderso

Hey Aaron,
What is the footprint on that Clausing mill?


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## pontiac428

Janderso said:


> I'm working towards Radio frequency ablation. They burn the nerve receptors at the facets, or pain receptors. I have extreme stenosis in three lumbar vertebrae due to arthritis and bulging discs.. It sucks. I know many of you guys suffer as well.


I hear you.  This is where I ended up before getting relief (not my x-ray, but same procedure) after being a test dummy for epidurals.  Be careful in the shop, once the pain is gone you don't have the same feedback to force you to keep using good body mechanics.


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## Aaron_W

Janderso said:


> Hey Aaron,
> What is the footprint on that Clausing mill?



If you literally mean the base in contact with the floor, it is 22" deep by 21" wide, but for the full range of motion I need all of that 4'x4'8" area at some point in the space. 72" tall at the top of the drawbar. 6x24" table so roughly half the size of yours assuming it is a 9x42.


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## tmenyc

Back to the cardboard box for a post ... my bench grinder is installed on a closed in shelf on a rack of shelves.  For awhile I taped a reshaped amazon box to the wheel cover to catch the metal and wheel dust that came off it, and put wet paper towel directly beneath the front to catch what came down.  The cardboard, after awhile, really the whole period a year ago when I was learning to grind HSS tools, gradually accumulated quite a bit of dust, and I started wetting it too before use since a couple of burn spots showed up.  Then a friend made a steel box from angles that bolted to the wheel guard, and it works perfectly.  The wet paper towel in front, catching the hot dust and sparking particles coming straight down off the front of the wheel, is still there though, and it works well as long as you remember to get rid of it while it's still wet.  

Tim


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