# First Chips! PM-25MV



## codexmas (Sep 30, 2019)

It's been interesting to say the least after receiving my machine on Sep 23 last week.
Having very limited access to my basement shop I opted to pickup the machine at the truck depot.
This saved a bit of money not having the lift gate service, and gave me the option to deal with weather as I needed to disassemble it.
I would not have been a happy camper with a crate outside my place in a torrential Portland downpour.




Disassembly was mostly straight forward, not much actual information out there on it really, specifics I mean.
Several of you provided some helpful info in other threads so thanks again for that!
The main issue I encountered is partly being so new to "real" milling machines, a general lack of working knowledge.

Separating the X table from the base just wasn't happening. Turns out all that was needed is for the gib to be slid out and it comes right off.
I had been in the depot for well over an hour and it was getting dark, so I humped the base and the X table in one piece into the car.

Cleaning and proper dismantling in the shop was a lot of fun, really getting to know the machine. Quite a lot of elegant simplicity really.


I can see that I want a one-shot oiler mod soon, some of those little valves are tucked away!

As luck would have it I scored a really solid machine table on Craigslist to mount it on, very happy with the setup, no compromises.
Nice 1/4" welded steel, it took some care to hand drill the holes in it with my pedestrian drill.


So last night I finished getting it setup to the point of making the first chips. Got a bit too excited and forgot to put the chip guards over the lead screws...
Cleaning that up carefully is the plan for tonight as well as removing that pain in the ass front chip guard.



One thing I noticed that is rather annoying is the slop in the X table hand wheels. It seems like it is the play between the wheel and it's key in the shaft?
I'm considering ways to reduce that, curious if anyone else has noticed or cares about the 'knocking' noise it makes.

I'm currently planning on replacing all of the gib lock levers, simply annoying and low on ergonomics.
Too easy to leave them in a collision path, several times already actually.
Likely just 8mm bolts with knobs that I machine.

Power feed is also high on my list, especially after performing the first few operations. Good to have the feel of things for a while, until it aches more than you learn right?
Might do a DIY version to give myself a high value project to complete quickly.

I did record my first chips for posterity and laughs, some basic editing and it is almost watchable!





Happy to be a part of the community, hope to learn from others here and help where I can!

Support from PM has been nothing but stellar, even when my questions are noobtastic


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## jsh (Sep 30, 2019)

Your killing me here, lol. 
I look forward to more from you. 
I had planned on a mill from PM late spring or mid summer. Well that didn’t happen just to much going on at work. 
My plan is now next year.


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## shooter123456 (Sep 30, 2019)

codexmas said:


> Got a bit too excited and forgot to put the chip guards over the lead screws...
> Cleaning that up carefully is the plan for tonight as well as removing that pain in the ass front chip guard.


Don't worry too much about that.  A little bit of aluminum on the leadscrews isn't going to kill them.  Even well covered, chips make their way in and make a mess under there.  They can survive it.  

I have a theory about that front chip guard.  I am thinking it is specifically designed to get in the way when milling, and they know it will be removed.  This way if someone hurts themselves using the machine and try to sue, they can argue that people removed safety equipment and they can't be held liable anymore.  I don't think I have ever seen a machine with those guards left on them.  



codexmas said:


> It seems like it is the play between the wheel and it's key in the shaft?
> I'm considering ways to reduce that, curious if anyone else has noticed or cares about the 'knocking' noise it makes.


That seems unlikely to me.  On my machine, the fit between the keys and the keyways were very tight.  If they are a sloppy fit, it should be immediately clear, and that is a defect that PM can probably sort out for you.  I would look at other sources first.  Make sure the nut is secured tightly to the saddle, the gib is well secured, and the leadscrew is snugged up well with the endcap bearings.  You shouldn't have any knocking when rotating the handwheels.  

The leadnuts also have backlash adjustment, you could try increasing the tension on those if all else fails.  

Congrats on the new machine!  I have spent many hours making things with mine and I hope you find yours just as useful to you.


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## brino (Sep 30, 2019)

Congratulations, exciting times indeed. 
Nice video.

-brino


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## Nyala (Oct 1, 2019)

Congratulations on your new mill.  I've had mine for less than a year and enjoy it very much.  You'll love the DRO.  YouTube is a great learning resource for us beginners.

I've done a couple things to make the mill easier to use, so you might want to think about these.

1. Power feed the Z-axis.
2. New locks for all three axis.  Y-axis locks simultaneously with a tug on a lever setup, X-axis has knobs now, as does the Z-axis.  These make it easier to lock each axis and does a better job than the supplied lever type locks.
3. Fine down feed screen is not back lit and dependent upon your lighting it can be hard to see.  I removed the chip screen, cut off the metal rod and mounted a small arm to which I attached "button lights".  My wife gave me the lights from her stash that she uses for making miniature things.  It lights up the screen very well and when it dies, just throw it away and put on another one.

I can add pictures if you like.

The guys on this site are great and very helpful.  Don't be shy about asking questions.

Denny


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## codexmas (Oct 1, 2019)

shooter123456 said:


> That seems unlikely to me.  On my machine, the fit between the keys and the keyways were very tight.  If they are a sloppy fit, it should be immediately clear, and that is a defect that PM can probably sort out for you.  I would look at other sources first.  Make sure the nut is secured tightly to the saddle, the gib is well secured, and the leadscrew is snugged up well with the endcap bearings.  You shouldn't have any knocking when rotating the handwheels.
> 
> The leadnuts also have backlash adjustment, you could try increasing the tension on those if all else fails.



Cool, going to give it a good looking over tonight. Cleaned all the mess up yesterday.


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## codexmas (Oct 1, 2019)

jsh said:


> Your killing me here, lol.
> I look forward to more from you.
> I had planned on a mill from PM late spring or mid summer. Well that didn’t happen just to much going on at work.
> My plan is now next year.



All in due time, I spent at least six months heming and hawing before finally making the decision. No regrets, though I do think I am a bit crazy, this machine while the smallest they sell is substantial! Taking a lot off to chew for sure, but as it becomes more familiar I feel less overwhelmed.


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## codexmas (Oct 1, 2019)

Nyala said:


> Congratulations on your new mill.  I've had mine for less than a year and enjoy it very much.  You'll love the DRO.  YouTube is a great learning resource for us beginners.
> 
> I've done a couple things to make the mill easier to use, so you might want to think about these.
> 
> ...



Very cool, I'm definitely glad I opted for the DRO and not a DIY path. Benefits to both, I could have handled the install for sure, but getting started with it in place means I can spend more time making things and less tweaking the machine. Lots of other tweaks to do on it in any case.

I am very curious about your mods and would highly appreciate any info. Especially the locking changes and the Z power feed.


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## mcdanlj (Oct 2, 2019)

codexmas said:


> Power feed is also high on my list, especially after performing the first few operations. Good to have the feel of things for a while, until it aches more than you learn right?
> Might do a DIY version to give myself a high value project to complete quickly.



I did my own ugly hack power Z feed on my PM-30.








						PM-30MV for mcdanlj
					

The nylon locking ring in the nut didn't quite engage the threads, so I bored out another 0.1" and now the nut now tightens securely:    While I was at it, I added some bevels. The innermost bevel makes threading the nut more comfortable. The large outer bevel just makes it a slightly better...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




For completeness, there is a PM-25 pre-made Z feed available, of which I have no direct knowledge:








						Pm25 power z axis
					

Welcome!  Little Machine Shop sells a power lift for their bench mill that might work.  The LMS 5500 and PM-25 share very similar column and crank layouts.  https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=5657&category=2122081966




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




I purchased the X power feed from PM, but I expect that at some point I'll get annoyed enough to replace it with something of my own design, probably stepper-driven or servo-driven so that I can set actual travel rates instead of winging it as I do now with an unlabelled potentiometer. If you have inclination and expertise to do your own and feel like sharing your design here I wouldn't be surprised if others were grateful. ☺


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## codexmas (Oct 2, 2019)

I was thinking of something like this for an X and a Z axis using steppers, keep it real simple like:
Stepper controller board


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## codexmas (Oct 2, 2019)

Quick update, scored a used LMS 5100 7x16 lathe last night!
The tool room is almost complete 





It came with a crap ton of tooling and accessories, pretty much everything I would have ordered myself and more.
I was deeply considering the PM 10x22 lathe, but weight and basement access issues have slowed that idea.

I think I can do pretty much everything I need on this cute little unit, might just be able to make a better draw bar for the PM-25!


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## wrmiller (Oct 2, 2019)

Just a suggestion codexmas? When milling I keep a rubber dead blow hammer nearby as when you clamp a piece in the vise you will find that the workpiece lifts off the parallels a bit. So I just give the workpiece a thwack or two to get it back down on the parallels.

Not a big deal for what you're doing in the vid, but later when trying to keep tighter tolerances, it could help.


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## codexmas (Oct 2, 2019)

wrmiller said:


> Just a suggestion codexmas? When milling I keep a rubber dead blow hammer nearby as when you clamp a piece in the vise you will find that the workpiece lifts off the parallels a bit. So I just give the workpiece a thwack or two to get it back down on the parallels.
> 
> Not a big deal for what you're doing in the vid, but later when trying to keep tighter tolerances, it could help.



Yeah, thanks for the reminder!
I was intending to do that during the first chips session but totally forgot. Muscle memory yet to be formed


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## mcdanlj (Oct 2, 2019)

At the beginning of the video, I thought you were going to be the first person in history to succeed in using one of these mills with the polycarbonate shield in place. On my PM-30 I took the face off the spindle box and put a jumper in place of the shield "safety" switch to get that out of the way.



codexmas said:


> I was thinking of something like this for an X and a Z axis using steppers, keep it real simple like:
> Stepper controller board



Ah, I was thinking of the mechanical design rather than electrical. But yeah, that's a nice stand-alone controller. I'd be likely to DIY the controller, but only because it's fun for me. I had ideas of using an ESP32 also interfaced to DRO outputs to auto-calibrate, though probably I'll never get around it.

(And vis-a-vis settling parts with a dead-blow hammer, I found the MIT machine shop training videos useful generally, and that was one of the things that stuck with me. If you are already expert they might not teach you anything, but for me with no education in metal shop tools beyond sheet metal forming in junior high school I don't want to say how many years ago, they were valuable.)


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## codexmas (Oct 3, 2019)

mcdanlj said:


> At the beginning of the video, I thought you were going to be the first person in history to succeed in using one of these mills with the polycarbonate shield in place. On my PM-30 I took the face off the spindle box and put a jumper in place of the shield "safety" switch to get that out of the way.



Yeah, all it took was removing the c-clip at the top and a set screw. The shaft came out and the default state for the switch was 'enable'. It was so janky to get it to be happy where the flat of the bar to allow the machine to power on.



mcdanlj said:


> Ah, I was thinking of the mechanical design rather than electrical. But yeah, that's a nice stand-alone controller. I'd be likely to DIY the controller, but only because it's fun for me. I had ideas of using an ESP32 also interfaced to DRO outputs to auto-calibrate, though probably I'll never get around it.



The only issue I have with that unit is the forward/reverse is a toggle with no indicator. I really don't like the idea of having to remember which direction it was last, workflow is really important to keep simple in my mind. Probably not a real issue but my programmer head envisions times when it would be super easy to crash the machine. Might go arduino, as I use one to control both the X and Z with some nice buttons and pots for speeds. Coding in specific feed rates at certain pot values or some such.



mcdanlj said:


> (And vis-a-vis settling parts with a dead-blow hammer, I found the MIT machine shop training videos useful generally, and that was one of the things that stuck with me. If you are already expert they might not teach you anything, but for me with no education in metal shop tools beyond sheet metal forming in junior high school I don't want to say how many years ago, they were valuable.)



Will check them out, thanks for the link!


/edit spellin


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## mcdanlj (Oct 3, 2019)

codexmas said:


> Might go arduino, as I use one to control both the X and Z with some nice buttons and pots for speeds. Coding in specific feed rates at certain pot values or some such.



Note that ESP32 can be programmed with Arduino if you want, and there are some relatively inexpensive modules with a small screen attached.


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