# Sherline + Igauging Linear Dro; Possible?



## karim (May 15, 2016)

I'm looking into DRO options for my Sherline setup... There are some things I don't like about the OEM solution. Has anyone successfully installed iGauging DROs on Sherline machines? 

On the lathe, the lead-screw looks relatively easy, but I'm having trouble seeing how I might get the reading head set up on the cross-slide.

On the mill (2000), again, I think I can fit the Y axis pretty easily, but X & Z look a little more problematic.

Am I crazy to consider this? Anyone know of DROs that have a smaller installation footprint than iGauging that might work better on a small machine?


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## kvt (May 16, 2016)

I have been wandering the same thing on my 4400 lathe and 5400 mill.  The problem with the sherline DRO from what I can see is backlash as it takes into account the amount of turn in the hand wheel, not the movement of the axis etc.   thus if you have a few thou backlash as most sherline have it does not take that into account.   where a DRO would let you see how much something moves no mater how much the hand wheel has moved.    At least that is what I see so I may be wrong.   I just have not figured how to mount part of it.


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## karim (May 16, 2016)

Yeah, that's my main dislike of the Sherline DRO—it reads hand wheel revolutions, not linear movement.

I purchased an iGauging DRO so that I'd have something to physical to test against. Here's what I've found:

I also have the 4400 Lathe. I think I can easily fabricate brackets to mount the DRO rail on the back of the lathe, and secure the reader to the bottom of the carriage.
Out of the box, I don't see a way to mount the iG DRO to the cross-slide/carriage. I had hoped I could mount it under the leadscrew, but the reader head is too large to fit between the leadscrew and the base of the lathe.
On the 2000-series mill, I'm pretty sure I can fab brackets for the Y-axis by mounting the rail along the base of the mill, with a long bracket to connect the reader head to the table carriage.
Z-axis may be doable, but might involve some very complicated brackets to mount the DRO rail to the back of the Z-axis, and the reader head to the headstock mount
The X-axis will be much more difficult, because the clearance between the Y-axis screw and the top of the table is less than the thickness of the reader head, so even mounted horizontally, the reader head would protrude above the table.
I'm traveling for work at the moment, but when I get home, I'm going to disassemble the reader head enclosure and see if there's any way to repackage it in a slimmer profile.


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## kvt (May 17, 2016)

I would also check out you Tube as for some reason I think I have seen one with them on it and you may get some Ideas from them.   I want to do this but right now I'm cash poor and unable to purchase much for things like that.   But if figured out I may go ahead and start working towards it.   Ithe z axis on the 5400 would be a bit simpler I think,   But the x axis I agree would be a pain.   the only way I could think about it is put is make a bracket and put it even with the cross slide, for the y axis. on the back side    THen make mounts for the other to the base.   It does not mater if it is centered on the y or not as long as you have full travel on it.     The lathe I do not know a way without taking up room needed on the side of the cross slide. which would limit the tail stock setup.    The way I suggested for the Mill would not realy work as it would be sticking to far out he back of the lathe and be in the way more.   It would also not have a way to support it properly.


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## karim (May 19, 2016)

When I get back home this weekend I'll post some more findings, and if I make any progress, I'll let you know.


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## davidh (May 19, 2016)

someone on this site did  real neat cross feed install on a 12" craftsman / atlas.  maybe he will chime in here and show what he did. . .


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## kvt (May 20, 2016)

Was looking at some searches and although they do not mount the same type they do show some mounts for different stuff.   see attached doc.  Hope this helps.


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## karim (May 22, 2016)

Those look pretty close to what I was thinking.

I'm back home and after a closer look at both Lathe and Mill, it looks possible.

I'm going to start with the 4400 lathe, as it looks like the simpler job. My goals are to:

Not limit machine travel/function
Avoid permanent modifications as much as possible
Be easily removable (wholly or partially) for machine maintenance
Consider swarf/oil accumulation areas in placement of rails/head/wires
Gonna order DROs for X & Z for the lathe and start working on brackets based on the DRO I have. Will post progress as I go.


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## karim (May 23, 2016)

Ordered DROs for the lathe last night. I wish I could buy the reader heads and the tracks separately... The 4400 Z-axis has an absolute travel of 15 1/2", so I'm forced to choose between 12" and limiting the measurable travel, or getting the 24" track and wasting almost half of the track.

Also disassembled the reader head of the one sample I already have. Looks like if you need a smaller footprint, a smaller casing could be fabbed around the reader circuitry. I think I can get by without that level of mods. One thing that might interest others about these DROs... there is actually a standard micro USB male cable end and socket inside the reader-head. The cable just plugs into a socket on the circuit board, and the plastic casing covers it up.


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## karim (May 23, 2016)

In the words of my 3 y.o. son the other day, "And so it begins".

Moved my lathe to my primary workbench so I can get at all sides.

I started the brackets by making paper templates. You can see here the templates for the two brackets that will hold the lead-screw track. Note that these brackets will attach on the same screws that mount the lathe to the base. Easy win there.






To get a better handle on the positioning for the reader heads, I removed the tailstock, lead-screw hand wheel, and cross-slide, and disassembled the carriage.



Unfortunately, it looks like I'll have to drill a couple of mounting holes here to mount a bracket. After some sketching, I've come up with a bracket design that I think will work. I'll have one bracket that attaches both reader heads (Z & X) to the carriage. The Z head will move with the carriage on the Z-axis. The X head will be fixed to the carriage, with its track fixed to both ends of the cross-slide. This gives a more compact fixture, as I don't have to account for the length of the reader head on the end of the cross-slide, and the cross slide track can pass under the lead-screw. The bracket connecting the far end of the cross slide to the track will be a little funky, but  not too bad.



Here's the template taped to the carriage. The X-head will mount under the horizontal part, and the Z-head will mount across the vertical part. The pop-up at the end of the X mount (where my fingers are holding up the paper) will be an attachment point for a piece of flashing that will cover the two reader heads to prevent swarf/oil accumulation.



Here's me cutting out the main bracket on my baby band saw.



The three brackets rough-cut and blued for marking. Next is drilling, filing & bending.


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## karim (May 24, 2016)

After some clearances testing, I'm redesigning the main bracket. Will post pics soon.


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## karim (May 24, 2016)

So here's the redesigned main bracket template:




This adjustment lowers the reader head position for the cross-slide. Also, the additional little finger on the left is another mount point for the flashing to protect the reader heads.

Here's the mostly finished bracket:



I really wish I had a bending brake, but this is the best I can manage with the hand-tools I have. The lower plate that will hold the Z-axis reader head doesn't have mounting holes drilled yet... Once I get the track mounted, I'll drill those positions.


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## davidh (May 24, 2016)

more than often then these igaging dro's and their mountings get way overboard.  i know my first ones were a major operation with more concern than than wiring a 220V machine with the power still on...... yikes. . . that qualifies me as a "dumbass"    
after doing a few of them, i figured out its a very forgiving task.    I've used SUGRU to mount one, a self tapping metal screw into a nylon spacer for another, they are very light weight and forgiving. . . others have used wood and epoxy, whatever it takes to get them straight and secure. . . and i still have a few of them left for anyone thats interested. . . .


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## karim (May 24, 2016)

davidh said:


> more than often then these igaging dro's and their mountings get way overboard...



Oh certainly, I know this is a bit silly, but I figure I have the luxury of taking my time and I like the problem-solving aspect. Also, I know myself well enough that I'd wind up feeling more than a bit disappointed in the long run if I didn't consider the aesthetics as well as the functionality.


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## davidh (May 24, 2016)

i did the exact same kind of build when i put mine together. . . .


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## karim (May 27, 2016)

Update: Clearance & tolerances of the two track positions aren't quite what I'd like, so I've redesigned the brackets a bit more. The DROs I ordered still haven't arrived, so I'm a bit stuck until they arrive. Will post new pics when I have them mounted.


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## karim (May 29, 2016)

OK! DROs arrived yesterday afternoon.

Here's the updated z-axis bracket:




Mill set up for drilling the carriage and cross-slide for mounting points:






Tapping:




Installed from the back (still need to form and attach the flashing to protect the reader heads from swarf/oil):




And front:




And finally, the read-outs mounted using a length of OpenBeam and alum bracket:






Still to-do:

flashing to protect the reader heads
cable management
cleaning up the workbench (Just look at that mess!!)
on to the mill!


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## kvt (May 30, 2016)

A lot of your pictures did not come out.  
ken


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## karim (May 30, 2016)

Which ones? They're all showing for me...


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## kvt (May 30, 2016)

Ok,  Came back this afternoon ad they were there.   So whatever worked it all out.  
That looks nice.  I  may have to think about doing mine.   Sure would be easier to do things within tolerances


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## karim (May 30, 2016)

Cables Managed:



I had a couple of false-starts with the flashing/cover using aluminum sheet. Finally decided to switch up to plastic. This gives two benefits: A) I can easily see if something jams up the tracks and B) I can see where to drill the darn screw-holes 


Actually used the lid of an empty screw box.

And here she is, complete, with axes labels.




I'm very happy with how this turned out. Learned a bunch from this process, so I suspect the mill will be a little easier in some respects.

FYI, once I get the shop cleaned up, I'm happy to measure & draw-up the brackets I fabbed before I start in on the mill. If nothing else, gives you a starting-point... Let me know.


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## kvt (May 31, 2016)

I will take a set of plans, if you do them.   NOt sure when I will get it done willhave to save up my mad money for a while.


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## karim (May 31, 2016)

I decided to add some mustaches to the set-up


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## karim (May 31, 2016)

And here are drawings of the brackets:
http://karimnassar.com/images/makery/workshop/dros/DRO-mounting-4400.pdf


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## kvt (May 31, 2016)

I would go for a little bit narrower brush,   prob a bit more bristle   I have also wandered about a way to may waywipers for the sherline to keep it from getting in where we do not want it.


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## TonyL (Jun 12, 2016)

Hi guys. I am thinking about buying a Sherline to turn and threadt 304L and 303 stainless. Are these lathes capable of that..or is this really outside of models enevelope? Thank you for reading.


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## karim (Jun 13, 2016)

Hopefully this posts... I've been having a lot of trouble with the forums in the last few days:

I've personally cut 303 on my sherline lathe, and it's perfectly capable of it with the right tooling, but I generally try to avoid the harder metals because the other tooling in my shop (my baby band saw, etc) isn't up to the challenge of managing that material. The main constraint on the sherline envelope is size, and with 303, I wouldn't want to push that very far... Also keep in mind that the threading attachment for the Sherline is a manual-crank-type, so the cutting power is all in your left-arm 

In either case, you'll be taking lots of light cuts on stainless—you probably won't be able to hog it out like on a larger machine.

In Other News, I managed to get all 3 DROs installed on my mill. On vacation right now, but will try to post pics when I get back.


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## TonyL (Jun 13, 2016)

Thank you. Enjoy your vacation, and congratulations on the DROs!


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## karim (Jul 4, 2016)

Finally back home and up and running, and my HM account is working again. Yay!

Will post pictures and a write-up tomorrow of my DRO installation on my 2000-series mill. 

Also, for anyone who downloaded the drawings I did for the 4400 lathe, I have some revisions to the drawings that I'll upload tomorrow as well.


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## karim (Jul 5, 2016)

OK... so here are pics from my DRO conversion for my Sherline 2000 mill:

Brackets for mounting the Y-axis track:



For the X-axis, the track has to mount to the cross-slide. On the hand-wheel side, we can use the 10-32 stop-screw to hold the end of the bracket. But to get full-travel on the left-hand side, we need a bracket to mount to the table. In this pic, I'm using my milling vice mounted to my lathe cross-slide with a headstock riser to drill out the mounting holes in the table:



The next few pics show the assembly of the transducer head brackets which will attach to the X/Y saddle. Note the large hole in the first picture below... this allows for access to the gib-adjustment set screw without removing the brackets:











X & Y transducers mounted:





Tapping holes in the Z-axis assembly for the top bracket:



Top bracket:



Z-axis track and transducer mounted:



After some experimentation, I realized I don't need a bottom bracket for the Z-axis since the track mostly just hangs straight down. Not having a bottom bracket allows me to keep the ram knuckle clear of attachments, preserving the full range of motion.

Cable-keeping, & dangling DRO track:



I removed and modified the arm from a cheap micro-magnetic base to mount the displays with a custom rig built from some OpenBeam extrusions. This allows me to re-orient the DRO displays vs. any orientation of the mill spindle:


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## karim (Jul 5, 2016)

Here are the updated drawings for the brackets:

4400-series Lathe:
http://karimnassar.com/images/makery/workshop/dros/DRO-mounting-4400.pdf

2000-series Mill:
http://karimnassar.com/images/makery/workshop/dros/DRO-mounting-2000.pdf


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## karim (Jul 7, 2016)

I liked how the display mounting came out for the mill, so decided to do the same for the lathe:










OK... now I'm done... otherwise I'll keep tinkering for ever


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## Hidyn (Jul 7, 2016)

karim said:


> OK... now I'm done... otherwise I'll keep tinkering for ever



What's wrong with that?? 

Loved your work! Looks great!


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## kvt (Jul 7, 2016)

looks great,  but you can  always tinker a little between other jobs.   Isn't that what we are supposed to do.


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## karim (Jul 8, 2016)

too true... tho I feel like all I've made on my machines for the last few months is parts for my machines


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## kvt (Jul 8, 2016)

I even machined parts for other machines on them.   Of course some of the parts I had to get others to do as these are a bit small to do a bunch of parts for large machines.


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## karim (Jul 8, 2016)

Yeah, it was a bit interesting setting up the lathe to precision drill parts of the mill. Drilling the lathe parts on the mill was definitely easier


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## ben_r_ (Apr 18, 2017)

Awesome job man!


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## karim (Apr 19, 2017)

Thanks! The set up has been working really well.


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## mike64 (Jun 13, 2018)

karim said:


> And here are drawings of the brackets:
> http://karimnassar.com/images/makery/workshop/dros/DRO-mounting-4400.pdf


I was checking the dimensions of your drawing for the lathe and they do not match the drawing. Could you verify and update?  The second page is ok but the first page is not. Any help would be very much appreciated.


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## karim (Jun 13, 2018)

mike64 said:


> I was checking the dimensions of your drawing for the lathe and they do not match the drawing. Could you verify and update?  The second page is ok but the first page is not. Any help would be very much appreciated.



Hmmm.  That’s embarrassing. I’ll recheck when I get home. I’m currently traveling, but will be back home next week.


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## prasi79 (Oct 20, 2018)

nice idea


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## kevinpg (Aug 31, 2019)

karim said:


> I'm looking into DRO options for my Sherline setup... There are some things I don't like about the OEM solution. Has anyone successfully installed iGauging DROs on Sherline machines?
> 
> On the lathe, the lead-screw looks relatively easy, but I'm having trouble seeing how I might get the reading head set up on the cross-slide.
> 
> ...


So, I used the iGaging and set up the DRO on my cross slide (X-axis) and the rather than the lead screw, I use the cross slide as well for the Z axis. 
It is not ideal, the Z is no real issue, I used all thread nuts to make stand offs for the ends of the scale and I mounted the reading head on the saddle using some scrap 22gauge sheet metal and I used existing holes. Clearance is not an issue on the Z axis. 
The real issue and one I am dealing with now is the X axis because the only suitable mount was on the cross slide between the tail-stock and the slide and unless you have a long bed lathe, it is a pain, the dimensions of the reader head interfere with the tailstock and really limit what you can do. I have looked into finding a micro scale so it can be mounted between the bed and the bottom of the lathe and beneath the saddle. this would afford many advantages. but the reader head on the standard igaging is too thick, I have been sanding the case down on the reader head to see if I can get clearance but still need a mm to go. 
All that said, the advantage over the Sherline is obviously cost, you can screw up several igaging scales for the cost of one of Sherline DRO for any axis and with Sherline DRO on the handwheel, you still have to account for lash, not so with igaging, they do not move until the saddle or the cross slide moves and all you need do is zero it out.
Suggestion is to go to Yuris Toys and follow his guidelines.  It is an experience.


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## fixit (Aug 31, 2019)

karim said:


> OK! DROs arrived yesterday afternoon.
> 
> Here's the updated z-axis bracket:
> 
> ...


workbench looks as if you do things & have fun projects. I hate to see pristine shops where folks can eat off the floor, just can't be fun.


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