# Lathe for small parts?



## Chris H (Jul 19, 2017)

While I have my mill purchase made, I'm still looking for a lathe.  This has put me in a quandary!

I am primarily concerned with making bits and pieces for motorcycles, so even a small lathe can handle, dimensionally, the parts (bushings, axles, spacers) that I'm interested in building.  

The mill I purchased has a fourth axis and tailstock with full cnc control.  It's a Novakon NM-200.    

I want the lathe to have the ability to make metric threads accurately, particularly fine threads for fork bottoms and internal nuts on shocks (I have built race winning suspensions, just using off the shelf parts).  

Shop space is at a premium, and I have 220 single phase available.

So!  What do I do?

1.  Buy a small lathe in the sub 1k range (7-9 inch?) and use it to make small parts and then get a big lathe to augment it at some point in the future?
2.  Buy a smallish lathe in the 1-2k range (10-12 inch?) and call it a day?
3.  Buy a largeish 5k lathe (13") and figure out how to hold small, half inch parts?  
4.  Put up with setting up a fouth axis every time I want kinda lathe-like stuff?
5.  Mystery box?  

I've heard the saw about being able to cut small with a big lathe and can't go the other way, but where is the point that it's just not worth the effort?  Yeah, you can theoretically plant a window box with a backhoe, but I'll bet on the house being wrecked without a very skilled operator, and I ain't one of those!


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## hanermo2 (Jul 19, 2017)

There are zero small, good, options.

Any of the classic good manual (Schaublin, etc ) lathes, small, are very expensive.
any of the better manual chicom lathes, new, in 12-14", will do very good results as-is.

A short-heavy 12x24" is very good, takes little space.
I bought my 12x24 from chester uk new, about 2005, and it is very good, very rigid. A "heavy" chinese lathe, small size.

The "best choice" for small parts, if you can enlist help from someone, or have skills, is any small-footprint industrial lathe like a boxford et al, with an ac servo spindle drive you put in.
For a bit less money, vfd+3-phase motor, but not as good, by far.

There is no comparison in accuracy, quality, productivity between any "good" lathe vs a "hobby" 7-9 chicom lathe.
The difference is about 5-20x.

My 12x24 is now, a highly modified cnc refit lathe, done at great cost, great quality, to better-than typical modern industrial machines.
The 12x24 is about 30 cm wider, 20 cm deeper, footprint, than the 7x with a good rigid mount I built around 2005.

Imo, for motorcycle, 10-11x is minimum, and 11-12" is better.
Bigger lathes are better, more accurate, as-is.


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## mikey (Jul 19, 2017)

I'll weigh in with some opinions as I've made parts for sportbikes on my machines (not race-winning ones, though!).

You can take a chance on an older used lathe. You will probably need to refurbish/repair stuff and then deal with the wear and tear on the lathe. If you're lucky, you might find a good one but all old lathes are a project to some extent. Old Iron may limit you somewhat with regard to the number of metric threads you can cut and a change gear set may not be available for many old lathes. 

You can buy a newer model used lathe. Mine is an Emco Super 11 CD that was in mint condition and only required some clean up to bring it to near new condition. For me, this was the best choice because I have a premium lathe built to tool room standards for a lot less than it cost new. Most European lathes will have a full metric suite but if not, be sure you can get the change gear set. 

You can buy a modern Asian lathe that is ready to run out of the box. Well, you do need to go through it and clean up the rough edges but you are not dealing with wear, tear, missing parts, etc. Lots of choices in this category but unless you are willing to spend big bucks on an industrial machine, it usually comes down to a lathe made in China or Taiwan. The latter usually gets the nod for better build quality. There are tons of factors that will influence your decision - hardened ways, cam lock spindle, screw cutting range, change gear set availability, variable speed vs pulley, etc. Most new lathes come with the essential tooling or have it available - steady rest, follow rest, etc. On old lathes, you will have to go and find them if the seller doesn't have them and this will cost you.

Size-wise, my observation is that lathes fall into two general categories - 10" and below and 11" and above. There is considerable cross over, of course, but in general the smaller lathes have less powerful motors, fewer features, smaller spindle bores, etc; these are the hobby class lathes. The 11" lathes and above will be larger, heavier, more rigid, more powerful and have better features and better spindle accuracy. They also cost more but are more likely to do better work and retain their value if you should decide to sell. 

For the type of work you are doing, I should think that a 11-12" lathe would be a good size. All lathes are a compromise but this class will let you do most of the stuff you'll need and it's small enough to work on comfortably. They are also light enough to move around with one or two guys and don't take up a lot of space. Bushings, axles, spacers, fork caps, bar ends, fork damper adapters and more - easy. 

If I were to buy an Asian lathe today, I would be talking to Matt at Precision Matthews and I would look hard at his Taiwan-made lathes. I would also make absolutely sure the lathe can turn the metric threads you need or at least have a FULL metric change gear set available. PM also has an outstanding reputation for after sale support that you may not have with other import sellers. 

Be careful to define your needs fully. It is easy to look at the next larger lathe and see more features for only a few hundred more. You may find that a 12" lathe is what you need but the feature creep can end up with you buying more lathe than you need.  Once you sort of settle on a lathe, ask for comments from owners here on HM to get an idea of what their experiences are.

Good luck. Big decision but you have more options today than even 10 years ago.


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## Nogoingback (Jul 19, 2017)

I agree with hanermo2.  My first lathe was a 6" and I made a bunch of small parts for a custom bike I'm building on it, but it was marginal.  I since upgraded to a 10" machine which is far more suitable.
I would think  10 to 12" would work for you, but of course bigger is better.  But, bigger is also more expensive.  

mikey's suggestion of looking at PM machines is a good one: they have a good selection of
machines in the size range you're interested in, the people that own them seem to like them,
and as mikey pointed out they have an excellent reputation for customer service.  They also
offer a machine with a large spindle bore which I would think would be helpful for the work
you do. 

There are many advocates on this site for buying an older American lathe in preference to
the newer Asian machines due in part to their better build quality.  That's what I did, but
after dumping large amounts of time, effort and $$$ into mine, I'm not sure I'd do it again
unless I found a pristine machine with hardened ways.  You can spend a lot of time just
looking for a machine like that without finding one and if it needs work, then the
lathe becomes the project. 

If I were you, I wouldn't even consider a machine less than 10".

Good luck.


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## Chris H (Jul 19, 2017)

Hanermo2, thank you, but I think you're aiming at a much higher class of machine than I am.  This is a hobby, not production.  I want to make good stuff, but I don't need production ability, and I have no desire to get into a phase converter simply due to the cost  they would represent.   

Nogoingback, what lathe do you have?  What lathe did you use previously?  

Mikey, you should note that I said the bikes won, not me!  I was a "highly passable" rider years ago, and just do the occasional track day now.  I've looked at Matt's stuff, and am thinking hard about his 1340 GT with the PEP stuff.  It looks like the best overall value, then add a DRO.  Of course, at that point I'm nearly at a microkenetics cnc lathe, so.....    Another plus on Matt's stuff is that it can thread right and left handed, and it's a native metric threader.  My concern with the machine is that even on rollers, it will be in the way most of the time, and it will be too big to make small bushings.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Jul 19, 2017)

I have never seen one in the wild but the little Tormach slant bed lathes look attractive for this sort of work, 3 HP spindle, 3500 Rpm's, front and rear tools and a conversational control. https://www.tormach.com/product_15l_slantpro.html

The control appears to be proprietary but looks similar to other lathe controls that I have used from the screenshots, for one off and short production work it looks like it would work fine if a bit slow. Another option would be a Haas TL which would cost considerably more but probably be a good deal faster.

For the most part 2 axis lathe conversational programming is dead simple and far faster then doing a job manually, describe the shape of the part and the size of the stock it will be made from, choose the tools, feed and speed, doc and finish allowance and have at it. The control will do most of the work for you. It still requires the skills required to run a lathe it simply does most of the drudge work for you.

I ran manual machines for close to 30 years before moving to a shop with NC machines about 5 years ago, will never go back to manuals if I can help it.


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## kd4gij (Jul 19, 2017)

Get the largest lathe that fits your budget and space. You won't regret it. I was threading 1/4" inch rod on a 16x40 lathe with a 10" chuck just today. I can go down to 3/8" on the 20x80 lathe with a 14" chuck. with collets can go really small on either


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## Chipper5783 (Jul 20, 2017)

Chris H said:


> Hanermo2, thank you, but I think you're aiming at a much higher class of machine than I am.  This is a hobby, not production.  I want to make good stuff, but I don't need production ability, and I have no desire to get into a phase converter simply due to the cost  they would represent.
> 
> Nogoingback, what lathe do you have?  What lathe did you use previously?
> 
> Mikey, you should note that I said the bikes won, not me!  I was a "highly passable" rider years ago, and just do the occasional track day now.  I've looked at Matt's stuff, and am thinking hard about his 1340 GT with the PEP stuff.  It looks like the best overall value, then add a DRO.  Of course, at that point I'm nearly at a microkenetics cnc lathe, so.....    Another plus on Matt's stuff is that it can thread right and left handed, and it's a native metric threader.  My concern with the machine is that even on rollers, it will be in the way most of the time, and it will be too big to make small bushings.



None of the machines above would be considered "production" machines, and all are at best one step above the bottom of the market.  All of the lathes you are looking at would work fine for "smallish" projects - none of them are "big" lathes.  A 13" lathe working 1/2" diameter parts would not be out of range at all.  Even going down to 1/8" parts, with a 13" lathe it is still not a big deal.  Now a 20" lathe, working 1/8" parts - that is a pain (totally doable) and one would be better off with a significantly smaller machine.

kd4gij has excellent advice - identify your show stopper constraints, then get the largest lathe you can that does not exceed those constraints.  Obviously only you can identify those constraints.  It sounds like space is your #1 issue - that is fair enough.  Also, maybe leaning towards the 13x40 and putting it on rollers (do you mean some sort of casters?).  I totally get it that being able to easily move the machine around has some advantages - there are also problems with moving the machine and maintaining alignment.  There are various creative ways to address making it easy to move the machine around and still get it to cut straight - but I have never seen one that was successful enough that the person didn't end up just leaving the machine set up in one place.

Lots of people have 13x40 lathes in some pretty small spaces and it works out just fine.  I had my 15x60 in a 10'x12' shop for years and it was fine (no long stuff through the headstock and it was a major task to open any of the covers).

There is nothing wrong with getting a 10-12" machine, use the extra funds to move up a couple steps in quality.  Then expect to get a larger machine to compliment that small machine.  As stated elsewhere, any lathe is a compromise.  Pretty quick folks find out that one lathe does not cover the bases.  Get the best 10-12" lathe that you can - and it will always be something that you will be glad to keep in your shop (a classy machine will always be classy).

I went the other way.  I started with an mid-grade 15x60 that was near new and got into the hobby.  Years later, after much looking I found a very nice 11x24, project machine that has worked out well for me.  It needed a fair amount of work - but all the "bones" were in excellent condition.

Let us know how you make out.  Regards, David


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## Nogoingback (Jul 21, 2017)

Chris H said:


> Nogoingback, what lathe do you have?  What lathe did you use previously?
> 
> .



My first lathe was an Atlas 618 (6 inch).  My "new" lathe is a ten inch Logan Model 200.

Lots of good advice here, but the one question that hasn't been addressed is what the budget is.  

Given your shop space limitations and the parts you make for motorcycles, I still think a 12 inch lathe would be fine.  The biggest part on the suspension of a motorcycle is a fork tube that's 2 to 2 1/2 inches in diameter.  As long as you have a long enough bed length, you would have it covered.  Bigger, of course is better, and the big machines are  built better and have more features.  But the really big machines mentioned don't fit in small shops well, need lots of power, and not only cost more to buy, but to tool up.  Maybe one way to look at this is to think
carefully about the biggest part you're likely to make, and then plan for something a bit bigger.
Be sure to pay attention to spindle bore when looking.


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## Glenn Brooks (Jul 21, 2017)

A couple of years ago I lucked into a Dalton 7x36" lathe, made in 1919, that is perfect for making small parts.  The key here is the Dalton  is in excellent condition. Very little wear. turns concentric axles etc with 1/4" HSS bits and is,very easy to,set up and work with.   I bought this lathe as my big iron 1950's 12" lathe is to worn out to do certain kinds of work.  So ended up with two to do the work of one.

Moral of the story, which ever direction you choose - large or small - don't skimp on accuracy. Buy a lathe that is not worn out!  Above all, you will value being able to turn parts to a thou which consistent results.  Maybe this means looking for a newish lathe. Although old ones can be found.  I have found two lathes now - the other is a 1925 SB 9- that are over 90 years old and still as accurate as the day they were built. They both do consistent, high value work - that's the main thing!

Glenn


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## Chris H (Jul 21, 2017)

Nogoingback, good question, but budget is not set.  I don't want to spend more than $5k because that's a lot of stuff to make in a non-production shop to justify the cost.  At the same time, if a great deal presents itself, I can go a lot higher.  It's just the normal budget considerations, do I leave it in the bank, do I buy a bike, do I buy parts, trip, etc.  I don't have kids or a wife, so I can be selfish in the spend.  A good used machine that won't drop much in value five years from now, I'd spend more on that than I would a new one that's going to take a drop in value the second the box gets opened.  I'm also aware of the different sizes of tooling, etc. that may not move from machine to machine.  

For rollers, yes, sorry, I meant casters.  I don't plan on moving it around, but it needs to be mobile.  May not be possible, the more I look at it.  Stands are so weak for what they're asked to do, it's easy to see how they get out of spec.


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