# The Infamous what Mill should I get



## lSherlockl (Mar 15, 2021)

Hello,

I know this is probably one of the more frequent topics "what machine to get" but I tend to get myself into research holes as I like to call it and end up looking like a conspiracy theorist with a stack of spreadsheets and red yarn going everywhere. So If anyone cares to read through and or give any suggestions of feedback on important features or considerations it would be much appreciated.

The shop is a basement shop with access from the garage but with wooden stairs, but the fools that built the house only used a 32 in entry door on it. Shop is decent size but given the above and the thought of ever having to remove it makes me lean to go "bench top" style of mills (and or lathes for that matter). garage technically a option but in WI even the garage gets quite cold and adding heating and wiring out there would also increase the budget sooo.

I had considered used machines but they seem far and few between in central WI and are usually much larger machines. That and unfamiliarity on what is "good or not" and or how to tell wear etc, I was less inclined to start out with a machine that requires me to rebuild it.

I'm a individual hobbyist not a business or anyone looking to do production runs, or be using the machine non stop. Predominately will likely be working in aluminum, pot metals, some plastic (delrin), with some steel work mixed in (no huge plans with steel but making the occasional replacement part and or want to maintain that capability). I'm not purchasing for automotive, cycling, or gunsmithing just enough times in my other hobbies I find myself really wanting to fix a part or make a tool that well requires a machinist or a mill to make or would be better if milled vs Dremel and right angle Grindered into shape. IE some tools on the list of things i would like to make and or improve is a decent belt grinder, die filer, various jigs and other tools for other work i do. Its a bit hard to bin the specific use cases as I only know some of them, and i know others certainly will come up as one uses and recognizes the uses of the tool.

I should add while I think CNC is neat I don't have the right temperament for it so at least conversion to CNC is not a major consideration in this decision (also famous last words).

That in mind I pretty much settled on PM, seeing their well regarded Customer service, or at least the fact that it has customer service and had ability to get parts if needed really seemed the place to go with, and their prices were close enough or even better to other resellers that it just made that part of the decision easy.


*Budget* $3000 on the upper limit on the machine itself (yeah i know tooling is a expensive slippery slope hence the budget).
*Power*: I can run a 220v outlet wherever I need to in the shop but no 3phase etc as I'm residential.

Based on my initial research reading and findings I thought the PM 932M (not the basic) fit the bill quite well its on the heavier side of bench type mills (heavy = more rigidity = good) still wrangle-able into the basement. At its price point ~2700 has nice features Powered Z axis and x axis power feed, and a good sized table with a decent work envelope that should be bigger than anything I need (famous last words).

However the PM 932M is out of stock and supply chains not being stellar with a sort of unknown restock time (seeing the other 932 family take several months to get in) I'm a bit less inclined to wait till I would guess near fall for them to restock the 932M. That leave me a few options I could step up to the PM 932M-PDF ($3k right at my limit) though I really don't think I would need or use the PDF feature, or I could side step to the less advertised PM-932V which is no power feeds but belt drive and VFD at $2600 (i would probably add on a x axis power feed if I went that route).

Here is where I have some questions

*Geared vs Belt?* I know belt will be a bit quieter, and in theory isn't belt more stupid proof as in if you do something really dumb the belt will slip vs mess up the gears or in this size of machine is it just hard to mess up the gears. Also would assume belt is lower maintenance.

*VFD* i roughly understand the science but question is, is it better low RPM torque than say brushless or than say geared. Is there concerns about the Chinese made electrics longevity vs the longevity of well Chinese made gears.

*X power feed*: desirable as it saves your arms, but also because you can get a constant x feed rate, better cuts and in theory better life on endmills if you feed them proper correct?

*Z axis power "lift"*: i know not to call it feed as its not really designed to feed the Z that would be the job of the PDF, but really how useful is this or how often do you need to move the head up and down if working on say similar sized stuff. I guess it would depend if you do drilling operations etc that use a chuck as that would add a lot of height. Basically is it something I would regret not having


I had also considered like the PM 30MV as i liked brushless motors on other tools  but really that and the other smaller mills really compared to the $2700 932M just didn't seem to come close in I guess "value". and really just the quill travel was a huge seller for me when looking at the 932 family or size bracket (which is based of the Rong Fu Rf45 at some point in its history if research tells me anything) .

Oh last notes in this book of a post. DRO is planned but I think I have the skills to mount one myself. Stand being 6'2" plan was to make my own as to my calcs all the sold ones would put everything short. Probably build around a tool chest cabinet get some useful space, as well as some sort of leveling, and or caster option to let me move it should I ever need to without needing a crane in the basement.

any comments, opinions, suggestions, or feedback are appreciated.


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## wrmiller (Mar 15, 2021)

Heavier is not always more rigid. My PM935 outweighs my old CO 9x40 bench mill by hundreds of pounds. But the bench mill was more rigid. Different designs, different webbing in castings, etc..

You didn't mention quality or accuracy. You did mention light(?) gunsmithing. I do mostly pistolsmithing, but I do occasionally work on long guns. IMO accuracy and repeatability are the topmost requirements for this. But that's just my opinion.

You also bring up the age old gears vs. belts subject. Given your description of what you're going to be working with as far as material, how much torque do you think you need? Are you going to drill 1" holes in something? Just asking to get a better idea of what you intend.


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## fursphere (Mar 15, 2021)

I just purchased and received a PM-30MV about a month or so ago.   So far it seems to be a good solid machine.   Keep in mind you're going to add $200-$250 for shipping and lift gate services (if you need it), and possibly another $200 for the stand, and then possibly sales tax (damn you California!).    That's a a big chunk of that $3,000 budget.  (add a vise and some tooling.....and well, its a rabbit hole).

When I started looking I figured out what I wanted to do and came up with the PM-25MV would be the smallest I'd want (when compared to other vendors).  Then went one bigger out of principle.

I also may want to convert it to CNC in the future, so having conversion kits avalable for the PM-30MV (and the PM-25MV) was factored in as well.


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## lSherlockl (Mar 15, 2021)

wrmiller said:


> Heavier is not always more rigid. My PM935 outweighs my old CO 9x40 bench mill by hundreds of pounds. But the bench mill was more rigid. Different designs, different webbing in castings, etc..
> 
> You didn't mention quality or accuracy. You did mention light(?) gunsmithing. I do mostly pistolsmithing, but I do occasionally work on long guns. IMO accuracy and repeatability are the topmost requirements for this. But that's just my opinion.
> 
> You also bring up the age old gears vs. belts subject. Given your description of what you're going to be working with as far as material, how much torque do you think you need? Are you going to drill 1" holes in something? Just asking to get a better idea of what you intend.



That is a fair point, i guess i was going the generic rule of thumb. Though in the land of PM bench top mills i do think it may be the case for the mills of Chinese manufacture. fitment and how the column attaches can certainly have a large bearing on flex/rigity observed in practice. As a person who hasn't physically interacted with any of them all i can do is best guess based on provided info and hope for helpful insights from others.

Sorry I should re-phrase my use cases as looking back at it now it certainly could be misleading, by light gunsmithing i was more so going for the action and types of activities and work envelopes in both in aluminum or steel would be probably at most similar to basic gun smithing for the sake of a simple reference point of a capability set I would like to have. That being said I don't have any actual plans to say mill slides make competition guns or RMR cutouts. I'll try and go back and add a better use case.

In terms of drilling I don't think I would often go over a half or even 3/4 in. HP and torque are something I don't practically understand how to relate as to what's needed, or Ideal for milling various materials or what limits that they can impose i understand yeah that generically more torque is better, cutting steel likes lower speeds and being harder either means slower and smaller passes or with the right tooling yeah you want some more low end torque to cut deeper.

I also do know of the adage or advise to get more of a tool than you need, as generally you don't come to regret it later.


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## wrmiller (Mar 15, 2021)

FYI, I milled 1911 slides and frames on a belt driven PM25 using 1/4" and 3/8" end mills. It worked fine, except that I needed to get a bit creative when I ran out of Z-axis travel for some frame cuts. 

Which is how I ended up with a CO 9x40. Monster machine, and I spent almost a year getting it where I wanted it. After that, I swore off Chinese machines. At that time, Matt (PM) didn't have the 833 mill, nor the PM30. So my 'upgrade' options were limited. Had those offerings existed, I might have just gone with the 833 and dealt with the shortcomings of a non-articulating head using other means.

I don't need machines as big as I have now, but I'm an outlier in this regard. I bought the machines with the features I wanted, and ended up with machines a bit larger than I had intended.

I don't know that you could go wrong with any of Matt's offerings. I think it just comes down to what you really want to do with the machines and choose accordingly.


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## Pcmaker (Mar 15, 2021)

I would save more and buy a Taiwanese made machine like the 833T


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## kb58 (Mar 15, 2021)

I have to speak up in defense of the PM-935 with the following disclaimer: every machine flexes, the issue becomes "is it too much." Said another way, it all depends on what you're doing with the machine. I work both aluminum and steel, including machining a large block of steel for a custom alternator mount. Did it flex? I'm sure it did, some amount. Did it matter for my application? No.

All depends what you're doing.


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## lSherlockl (Mar 15, 2021)

fursphere said:


> I just purchased and received a PM-30MV about a month or so ago.   So far it seems to be a good solid machine.   Keep in mind you're going to add $200-$250 for shipping and lift gate services (if you need it), and possibly another $200 for the stand, and then possibly sales tax (damn you California!).    That's a a big chunk of that $3,000 budget.  (add a vise and some tooling.....and well, its a rabbit hole).
> 
> When I started looking I figured out what I wanted to do and came up with the PM-25MV would be the smallest I'd want (when compared to other vendors).  Then went one bigger out of principle.
> 
> I also may want to convert it to CNC in the future, so having conversion kits avalable for the PM-30MV (and the PM-25MV) was factored in as well.



Yeah my price limit was before shipping etc as well those stayed constant across pretty much any option as well as the basic tooling so that all to me is a fixed cost part of the tooling budget  and the variable part left for me is the choice on the machine. but yes very much a rabbit hole

I would say a similar point I started looking at like a PM25 mv or that size/type of mill technically should cover the work area that i would need. then I sat back and went hrmm should go up a size like the pm30Mv, and then i looked at the PM932 which seemed to offer a bit more at the same ish price bracket. 

I don't  have direct plans to CNC, but I guess I shouldn't rule it out entirely as conceptually the complex cuts and curves you can do is pretty wild


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## mksj (Mar 15, 2021)

You also need to break it down and get it down the stairs. I would recommend a belt drive in this category, much quieter and higher top end speeds. Weight is often proportional to the size mill. Taiwanese manufacturer tends to be a bit lighter, but may have better iron and webbing which can add rigidity. I have not seen any complaints of rigidity for the bench top mills working within a reasonable milling envelope for the size mill. VFD at this level, probably not as practical, just because these often come in a variable speed model with controller and tach.

The PM-30MV is within the budget and is small enough to break down and will give a very decent work envelope. If you are looking at higher quality mills then the PM-728VT and if stretching the budget the PM-833TV. You then start to talk about X and Z drives and some basic tooling and you add another 1K. You can get by w/o the drives, but hand cranking does get tedious and you will get better finish with a X axis drives. I wouldn't worry about how long an end mill will last, they can be picked up inexpensively and last a long time unless you drop it or are doing exotic alloys. A PDF, most people rarely use them. Many individuals overthink their needs on some of the numbers, but I will say that you want to maximize the Y and Z travel within your budget. DRO are an easy install and a 2 axis can be purchased starting at around $200. You only need X and Y, the quill has a battery operated DRO, never needed a column DRO.

CNC, all the models above have conversion kits, but you are looking at $$$, you will need some form of coolant system and enclosure if you do not want a big mess.


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## fursphere (Mar 15, 2021)

mksj said:


> CNC, all the models above have conversion kits, but you are looking at $$$, you will need some form of coolant system and enclosure if you do not want a big mess.



Very good point.  I estimated around $2k to convert my PM-30MV to CNC (hardware and electronics), using an extra PC I already have.  That project is on my "maybe someday" list.


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## markba633csi (Mar 15, 2021)

I used to hesitate to recommend the Chinese round column mill/drills but so many people like them I've changed my tune.  They are available just about everywhere and not expensive.  For about 1500 or less you can be off to the races.  They have a couple weaknesses like anything but within their envelope they can be good workhorses till you decide to move up, and they tend to keep their value.
-Mark


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## hotrats (Mar 15, 2021)

When I bought my PM 940 about 7 yrs ago, I knew nothing. Still don't know much. My only suggestion - whatever you buy, get the Z axis power. Your shoulder will thank you


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## davidpbest (Mar 16, 2021)

I assume you've seen these threads?









						Pm 728vt with stainless
					

For anyone with 728vt experience. I'm in the market for a mill and I'd like something smaller since my current shop is small. I'm all about experimenting with different metals. I'm into CAD so the possibility of cnc is very high within the first year. I think I'll throw a touch dro on it and...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				












						PM-932M or PM-835S on the fence
					

Hello All,  For a long time I wanted to get a Bridgeport and restore/refurbish it.  But, retirement finally came, the dream shop arrived (1,100 sq. ft. with heating/AC, yeah!), and I'm setting up.  I have a LOT of motorcycle related projects to get to and am rethinking the old Bridgeport idea...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




The attached might be helpful as well.


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## 7milesup (Mar 16, 2021)

mksj said:


> DRO are an easy install and a 2 axis can be purchased starting at around $200. You only need X and Y, the quill has a battery operated DRO, never needed a column DRO.


That is interesting Mark.  I leave my quill locked when milling and use the Z axis.  Too much slop in the quill IMHO.  So, I use my Z axis DRO quite a bit.
Everyone has their own way of doing things don't we....


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## lSherlockl (Mar 16, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> I assume you've seen these threads?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I had found  the second one and the PDF (the PDF definately helped push me to go the direction of the RF45 clone or style of machine over its smaller square columned brethren), the first one on the 728vt and stainless was interesting

one thing that I know I will do is notching some small stainless tubing, really I think any of the benchtop mills could handle that operation with proper bit and speeds/feeds figured out.

And boy is it a slippery slope I keep on flip flopping on the best fit for me, the taiwan machines are so tempting but I just don't think i can justify the added cost for certainly what will be novice work of generally speaking not as critical of nature. That being said I have seen in not quite a comparable land the differences between a cheap 3d printer vs the machine it was a clone of and there is a lot to be said about something thats going to work with well minimal user setup and tweaking to get it running well.


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## Janderso (Mar 16, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> I assume you've seen these threads?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


David,
That was the most informative comparative I have seen.
Well researched, accurate and the opinions are spot on IMHO.
Well done.


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## lSherlockl (Mar 21, 2021)

I did want to post a follow-up note as to what direction I plan on going, as well as the sort of mental decision process if it will help others.

I do appreciate the comments and advise. It really difficult for a beginner to truly know what features or how much of a machine to get I think in the end its a bit of a gut instinct and the concept of go for a bit more than you think you will need.

Its very easy to slide down the slippery slope of "for just a bit more" I can get XYZ features or get a higher quality machine but really you have to draw a line somewhere and stick to it.

I started looking at the smaller PM or Weiss benchtop mills the likes of the 25mv or 727m and sort of slipped and stretched some to move to the bigger/heavier PM 932 series machines (or the RF45 clone/ish style of mill). I know too there is alot of love the taiwan made 833 family and as much as I think they would be great the point is they are double the price from what I started at. While they are just over a grand more than what i was looking at with the 932 adding on say a power feed or the jump to variable speed is a much greater one, that and the considerable cost of entry level tooling required coming from a shop that i really only own a decent set of machinist squares currently and a meh caliper that side of things adds up fast.

all that aside I was left a few options within "my price range" and the current and reasonable availability of machinery with these super wonky times and messed up supply lines. a PM-932M-PDF, or a PM-932V (i did briefly entertain a pm 30mV but the quill travel on the 932's was soo good) I will say too that the PM-932M did look like quite a sweet spot in terms of bang for buck however likely being fall or later at the earliest est restock i ruled it out.

that left me with a main decision of well whats more valuable or useful variable speed, or powered Z axis and PDF?

PDF i kinda ruled out as i dont think ill do much large diameter boring and you can do it by hand if needed just likely less clean results.

Which leaves variable vs Z axis; and really the long story short there is they are both desirable from what i could read. A quieter more controllable speed makes it a bit easier to hit the sweet spot for certain cutters in certain materials. And power Z saves you arm and makes switching from milling to drilling operations much easier (well if you need to swap from collet to chuck was my largest mental use case) 

Given in my mind I was I think I want both of these things, but nothing has both of these things, It boiled down to which of these is harder to modify or add on? Which of these would cost more to modify or add on?

The answer there is I think it would be cheaper or easier to add a powered Z axis, vs get a 3 phase motor, VFD and convert to a belt system. I know that puts PDF out of the picture but I think I'm fine with that

So that all said I am targeting the PM-932V with a added on x axis power feed, DIY stand for better storage options.

being me I know things can flip flop still or my mind can be swayed but i wanted to at least keep things up to date with where I am at.


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## davidpbest (Mar 21, 2021)

Have you confirmed availability of PM-932V?  I haven’t seen that version discussed since 2015.


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## Tipton1965 (Mar 21, 2021)

Stretch the budget just a little more and get a 940V.


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## lSherlockl (Mar 21, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> Have you confirmed availability of PM-932V?  I haven’t seen that version discussed since 2015.


last week they had 11 in stock they apparently have them but not listed on the website.

only exist in the most basic flavor apparently pretty much mostly for CNC folks who don't care about the other bells and whistles  that a manual machinist may want.

I did also find it annoying to try and get more info to research on them as there is some on the 932, but less on the 932V series but my understanding only difference is belt and VFD 3phase motor vs gearbox  otherwise castings adn the rest of the parts are the same.


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## lSherlockl (Mar 21, 2021)

Tipton1965 said:


> Stretch the budget just a little more and get a 940V.


its a full grand more, and at that point what does the 940V have over a 833V at the same price it offers more weight (also making it more difficult to get into the basement) a slightly wider bed and 1 inch more y travel.

I certainly get the idea that for a bit more you can get nicer or bigger but if i came in saying I was considering a 833 or a 940, then I would also be like why not another grand to got to a knee mill and get the nod. if there is a super hard argument for it yeah I think sure there may be some further consideration I can give.


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## Tipton1965 (Mar 21, 2021)

lSherlockl said:


> its a full grand more, and at that point what does the 940V have over a 833V at the same price it offers more weight (also making it more difficult to get into the basement) a slightly wider bed and 1 inch more y travel.
> 
> I certainly get the idea that for a bit more you can get nicer or bigger but if i came in saying I was considering a 833 or a 940, then I would also be like why not another grand to got to a knee mill and get the nod. if there is a super hard argument for it yeah I think sure there may be some further consideration I can give.


My advice was given assuming the PM-932V was not available.  Didn't see it on the PM web site.  Carry on!


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## davidpbest (Mar 21, 2021)

What are the specs on the PM932V motor?  HP?


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## lSherlockl (Mar 21, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> What are the specs on the PM932V motor?  HP?


oh shoot i thought i had written that down or it was in the email they sent me I have to call them again. I want to say it was a 2hp? it was wired for 220v outlet and was a 3 phase motor.

Edit: chatted with the rep on the phone apparently its a "new model" of machine, and not related to the old one? Im guessing its more of a case that it was a low demand item and then demand picked back up for that sort of machine for CNC conversions so they worked to get it produced again. May be different motor and or VFD than the original one from the few post i seen from like 2013-2014 time frame. 

I'll post up full specs once i get them from PM.


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## lSherlockl (Mar 26, 2021)

So got some more info from PM today

Apparently the pm-932V is going up on the website real soon, only exist as the "basic" model so no powerfeeds or variations.

1.5HP 3 phase using 
VFD to get variable speed. 
Belt fed with two ranges. (and shoot I forgot to ask about the RPM) 

confirmed same castings as the rest of the 932 family just a bit different head lacking the gears.

(honestly looks a lot like the same as the older pm932V's that were posted before back in like 2014 ish.)

Price jumped up 200 bucks on it since February from 2599 to 2799 oh the joys of waiting to get specs, when the person I talked to today was able to just rattle them off.

Anyhow have more decisions to weigh now.


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## EVMiller (Mar 31, 2021)

I'm picking one one of these up this Friday! speeds are 50-3200 RPM


PM-932V-BASIC Milling Machine, Variable Speed, Complete With:

1. DRO for Quill (Spindle) Travel
2. 3 Year Warranty
3. 220V Single Phase Power Input
(Machine is WITHOUT X Power Feed, or Head Lift Motor)
4. Variable Speeds from 50-3200 RPM


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## lSherlockl (Mar 31, 2021)

EVMiller said:


> I'm picking one one of these up this Friday! speeds are 50-3200 RPM
> 
> 
> PM-932V-BASIC Milling Machine, Variable Speed, Complete With:
> ...



Cool!  and thanks for sharing the info.

I find it a little surprising how hard it is to come up with info on a machine they physically have, I have been struggling for a few weeks now to just get basically the basic specs around this machine. I got friendly people whenever I called them but its certainly feels a bit odd.

Did you go look at it in person? or do you know if it has a RPM readout/tachometer? I think that was my last open question I had for them


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## EVMiller (Apr 1, 2021)

I have not seen it in person. I'll do my best to answer any questions tomorrow after it is in my garage and out of the crate.


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## 5tmorris (Apr 1, 2021)

I bought a 932 last spring and have been using it for almost a year.  Great machine!  I ordered it with the DRO, x power feed and head power feed  installed.  It was a royal bit** getting it into my shop.  Hired a moving guy, best $400 I spent(he moved a 1127 lathe too).  The mill came with oil already filled and cosmoline on all the machined surfaces.  Took a while to clean up.  As for tramming, it did have a nod of about .002 over 4 inches.  It took a good amount of time using a bottle jack and shim stock to get the nod taken out.  But all things considered I have been very happy with it.  Be happy to answer any questions you might have.


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## nighthawkFmobil (Apr 1, 2021)

5tmorris said:


> I bought a 932 last spring and have been using it for almost a year.  Great machine!  I ordered it with the DRO, x power feed and head power feed  installed.  It was a royal bit** getting it into my shop.  Hired a moving guy, best $400 I spent(he moved a 1127 lathe too).  The mill came with oil already filled and cosmoline on all the machined surfaces.  Took a while to clean up.  As for tramming, it did have a nod of about .002 over 4 inches.  It took a good amount of time using a bottle jack and shim stock to get the nod taken out.  But all things considered I have been very happy with it.  Be happy to answer any questions you might have.
> 
> View attachment 361350


You ever use any dovetail cutters eith your mill???


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## EVMiller (Apr 2, 2021)

lSherlockl said:


> Cool!  and thanks for sharing the info.
> 
> I find it a little surprising how hard it is to come up with info on a machine they physically have, I have been struggling for a few weeks now to just get basically the basic specs around this machine. I got friendly people whenever I called them but its certainly feels a bit odd.
> 
> Did you go look at it in person? or do you know if it has a RPM readout/tachometer? I think that was my last open question I had for them


It does have a tac and display


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## lSherlockl (Apr 2, 2021)

EVMiller said:


> It does have a tac and display
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cheers! thanks for the pic and good to know ill give them a ring up on monday as i think I'm good to go 

not of a high importance but out of curiosity how or where is the belt change done I think pics of the 932V's  from around 2014 ish used a variable pulley with a lever to flip between ranges.


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## EVMiller (Apr 2, 2021)

I was wondering the same thing actually, there isn't an obvious way to do it. I am going to start breaking it down to move it into the basement in the morning so I'll report back then.


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## lSherlockl (Apr 2, 2021)

EVMiller said:


> I was wondering the same thing actually, there isn't an obvious way to do it. I am going to start breaking it down to move it into the basement in the morning so I'll report back then.


Please share your findings or method of basement transport same situation here,  so any pointers or tips there definitely welcome.

i was thinking removing the head use some 2x4 framing to sot of protect the bottom/quill, then the column and base (maybe pull the table if necessary) and just dolly them down one by one clean and reassemble


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## EVMiller (Apr 3, 2021)

Belt access


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## lSherlockl (Apr 3, 2021)

EVMiller said:


> Belt access


Nice  what i was guessing from the other top pic, not quite as easy access or quick of a change but should be much better traction or risk of slippage with a grooved vs a V belt. Thanks for sharing!


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## 5tmorris (Apr 5, 2021)

nighthawkFmobil said:


> You ever use any dovetail cutters eith your mill???


Yes.  Pretty straight forward cutting a groove with a standard end mill and then cut the dovetails.  Made some quick change tool holders for my lathe.


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## nighthawkFmobil (Apr 5, 2021)

5tmorris said:


> Yes.  Pretty straight forward cutting a groove with a standard end mill and then cut the dovetails.  Made some quick change tool holders for my lathe.


Sweet. Was wondering if rigidity can become a problem with the bench type mills. Seemed like a lot of surface area in contact. How many passes did it take to make the qctp holder?

When I get my mill I want to make a new holders as well a new compound. And then I'd like to make a new cross slide in order to eliminate the compound.


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## 5tmorris (Apr 5, 2021)

nighthawkFmobil said:


> Sweet. Was wondering if rigidity can become a problem with the bench type mills. Seemed like a lot of surface area in contact. How many passes did it take to make the qctp holder?
> 
> When I get my mill I want to make a new holders as well a new compound. And then I'd like to make a new cross slide in order to eliminate the compound.


Mill wasn't the controlling factor, my dovetail cutters were.  The shaft was very small and I could only 10-20 thou before I got flex in the dovetail mill shaft.  figured that out after taking spring passes that still were still cutting what to me looked like a lot of material.


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## lSherlockl (Apr 22, 2021)

I wanted to just keep this thread updated. I did end up ordering a PM932V despite the price hike. Item shipped freight to WI remarkably fast was like 3-4 days. Crate was made of what i would describe as the paper mache of plywood and hulk had punched a few holes in it luckily nothing really seemed to have hit or hurt the machine, and the quill DRO was on but attribute that likely to shaking in transit.

EV Miller already posted a few pictures, I can add some more if anyone else is interested. Mine will likely continue to live on the pallet till I get a stand built for it. Just a few notes or observations the cabinet on the back or backpack as i like to call it is a bit bigger than expected but laid out incredibly clean and orderly with little labels on everything have not seen if that references or matches any diagrams but appreciate clean and good cable management.

I will note the Z axis on mine was "stuck" and incredibly hard to turn the crank after a call with PM i removed the z axis bellows and pulled both gib screws and then was able to get the thing to shift (z axis locks were off) wondering if it was just the combination of paint (given it looks like these are painted assembled or at least touched up) and the paint on the faces of the Z axis crank which definitely rubs pretty heavily on the plate that it buts up against. The Gib however did not seem to shift at all given by the fact its painted over and that seam has not cracked, but in any case ill need to figure how to re-adjust that. 

Honestly if i disassemble for transit to the shop it may be worth it to pull the gib clean and potentially stone or check it for flatness but that's another day (i feel like adjusting the Z gib under the load of the head would be tricky to get right)


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## EVMiller (Apr 22, 2021)

932 pics

I would highly recommend pulling the x/y gibs and remove the table and clean and lube everything. I  took the entire x/y assembly apart (gibs, table, screws)  so I could clean and lube everything. I  did not take the z axis apart, just wiped and oiled the exposed portions of the dovetails, and ran the head up/down to clean and lube behind the head. 

Ill get a vid of it running later today. Its extremely quiet! gotta go pick the kids up from school


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## lSherlockl (Apr 22, 2021)

yeah I'm still processing how to transport it down into my basement, its a bit more "big" in person and taking exact measurements on it makes it a interesting trick.

I was sort of thinking of taking it apart  into head, column, base transit each on their own via dolly (would also let me clean and re-lube check and stone any surfaces that may have burs etc) however there is a heck of a lot of wires between the control box, and the back-cabinet and the motor and back cabinet. and the back cabinet is screwed to the column underneath the raised board that all the controllers etc are mounted to.

thinking its a case of pulling the table (to cut down the width) and then lowering the head all the way it can go and embrace the ancient Egyptians and just use a sled and a ramp down the stairs for the main assembly. Obviously with some tethers etc.

But as i mentioned have some time to ponder this one, out of curiosity what are you doing for a stand if I may ask? and the other think i looked at and was pondering was the small little packed of cap head screws and the sort of stepped washers that was in the table under the oil paper was for. It wasn't clicking looking around the machine


EDIT: oh and i was scrolling thru the documentation I didn't see the amperage on the unit (other than the motor itself but not sure if the VFD consumes more or if the stated 8 amp on the motor was constant or peak. just figuring what plug and wire i need run I know its 220v single phase circuit so nothing difficult.


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## davidpbest (Apr 22, 2021)

lSherlockl said:


> yeah I'm still processing how to transport it down into my basement, its a bit more "big" in person and taking exact measurements on it makes it a interesting trick.
> 
> I was sort of thinking of taking it apart  into head, column, base transit each on their own via dolly (would also let me clean and re-lube check and stone any surfaces that may have burs etc) however there is a heck of a lot of wires between the control box, and the back-cabinet and the motor and back cabinet. and the back cabinet is screwed to the column underneath the raised board that all the controllers etc are mounted to.


If you do break the connection between the base and column, you will need to re-tram the column.  You should check the tram either way.  This thread goes into the process in some detail.  It's applicable to any of the square-column benchtop mills:









						Tramming my PM-833TV
					

All of my experience in the past was on full size Bridgeport mills.  I'm discovering that these column bed type mills are a different animal as far as tramming goes.  I've done some research but would like to hear from others the techniques they use.  Here is what my gut and a little research...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## EVMiller (Apr 23, 2021)

lSherlockl said:


> I was sort of thinking of taking it apart into head, column, base transit each on their own via dolly (would also let me clean and re-lube check and stone any surfaces that may have burs etc)


One piece at a time on an appliance dolly is how I did it. I was able to get it down into the basement and reassembled by myself. Slow process but it wasn't terribly difficult. Don't be alarmed when large chunks of paint and body filler fall off during disassembly 



lSherlockl said:


> there is a heck of a lot of wires between the control box, and the back-cabinet and the motor and back cabinet. and the back cabinet is screwed to the column underneath the raised board that all the controllers etc are mounted to.


Yea.. getting the cabinet off and back on again was a major pain..



lSherlockl said:


> But as i mentioned have some time to ponder this one, out of curiosity what are you doing for a stand if I may ask?


I made a temporary one from scrap 4x4s and plywood. I'll weld something up after I figure out a comfortable working height. No solid plans on a stand for now


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## Larry$ (Apr 23, 2021)

hotrats said:


> When I bought my PM 940 about 7 yrs ago, I knew nothing. Still don't know much. My only suggestion - whatever you buy, get the Z axis power. Your shoulder will thank you


About Z-axis: Each time you change between a collet for an end mill and the drill chuck or even worse a boring head, you will need to move the Z a lot. I've got a knee mill and the knee is heavy. After too much cranking I put a Z feed on it, love it. That said you can just mount a 1/2" drill motor and have it do the heavy lifting. Drawback is the loss of fine movement a crank gives. Z feeds retain the crank but they stick out a lot. I have an X feed and like it, but you can get along w/o. The thing I run out of the most is Z travel. Add up the things that take Z space: Vice, boring head, boring bar, work piece, feed distance. Some of these can be worked around but all work arounds take time. Adding a HV rotary table also eats Z rapidly. As often as I move Z travel, I'd avoid a round column. Guys with them learn to plan ahead. A DRO for sure, but again not required but really nice.


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