# Atlas Clausing 4804 Spindle Won't Lock



## stoatmax (Jul 22, 2020)

Hi all,

I very recently picked up an old 4804 and have begun the process of getting it back into running condition. First order of business seems to be to replace the spindle bearings, as they are without a doubt roached. After that, it's mostly a lot of cleanup, oiling, and other setup to get it dialed in.

I noticed the spindle locking issue when trying to remove the chuck. I tried the method of engaging the back gears with the lock pin engaged. However, I believe the key for the large spindle gear must have sheared, as the spindle and chuck rotate (albeit with resistance) when the large spindle gear and belt pulleys are locked by the back gears. 

Given that the pulley assembly and spindle are no longer fixed to one another, I'm having trouble thinking of a good way to lock the spindle to remove the chuck without high potential for damaging something. Any ideas?


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## macardoso (Jul 22, 2020)

Perhaps you can make/buy an expanding mandrel to go in the back of the spindle and get a wrench on it?


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## Nogoingback (Jul 22, 2020)

I've never tried this, but I know it's been suggested before:
Get a piece of hex stock or a large bolt and chuck it in the lathe.  Disengage the back gears so that the
chuck can spin freely and use an impact wrench on the bolt to pop it loose.  (Assuming you have air
and a wrench of course.). Do not attempt this with the spindle locked in back gear.


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## stoatmax (Jul 22, 2020)

macardoso said:


> Perhaps you can make/buy an expanding mandrel to go in the back of the spindle and get a wrench on it?


Not a bad idea.



Nogoingback said:


> I've never tried this, but I know it's been suggested before:
> Get a piece of hex stock or a large bolt and chuck it in the lathe.  Disengage the back gears so that the
> chuck can spin freely and use an impact wrench on the bolt to pop it loose.  (Assuming you have air
> and a wrench of course.). Do not attempt this with the spindle locked in back gear.


No air, but a buddy has a fat electric impact wrench. I'll see about giving that a try.

While I'm here, I'm also curious as to how best to back off this rear spindle gear enough in order to get a gear puller on it. I'm afraid the "tap gear with block of wood and a hammer" tip from the manual isn't quite clear. See attached pic. It appears the previous owner may have faced these problems before, given the various holes in the sleeve of the rear spindle gear.


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## Nogoingback (Jul 22, 2020)

No idea how your lathe comes apart, but we have a bunch of Atlas owners here so someone should have an answer for 
you.  In the future, you might consider posting in the sub forum for *ATLAS, CRAFTSMAN, DUNLAP & AA.  
*


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## wa5cab (Jul 22, 2020)

The only connection between an Atlas-Clausing 4800 Series machine and Atlas is the name on the name plate.  Atlas bought Clausing circa 1949 and shortly afterwards changed the Model 100 (specifically the Mk 3) to 4800 Series.  With the last or last two digits meaning something specific, like the type of stand or cabinet.  The name change didn't go over well with the Clausing customers and although all of the model number changes stayed, the company name change, or at least what appeared on the machine nameplates, didn't.  So although many if not most would be willing, as a group the Atlas owners are likely to only be familiar with Atlas machines.  So stay where you are.

If you will look in Downloads in the Clausing... folder under Lathes, you will find a manual on the 4800 Series lathe.  There is a Woodruff key shown in the exploded view drawings as bubble # 78.  According to the numerical parts list 'way in the back of the manual it says that this is a #404 Woodruff Key.  It is not mentioned in the spindle removal instructions and a set screw in the bull gear is neither mentioned nor shown in the exploded view headstock drawings.  But it should be there.  The tapered roller spindle bearings do not appear to have any dust caps like the similar 12" Atlas machines.  But it would appear that the spindle can be removed from the headstock without removing the key.

However, to remove the stuck chuck, you might try dropping the banjo (AKA Change Gear Bracket) out of the way and putting a non-metallic strap wrench around the 32 tooth spindle gear as a means of locking the spindle.  Then once the chuck is removed, follow the spindle removal instructions in order to determine what the deal is with key # 78 that should lock the bull gear to the spindle.


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## stoatmax (Jul 22, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> The only connection between an Atlas-Clausing 4800 Series machine and Atlas is the name on the name plate.  Atlas bought Clausing circa 1949 and shortly afterwards changed the Model 100 (specifically the Mk 3) to 4800 Series.  With the last or last two digits meaning something specific, like the type of stand or cabinet.  The name change didn't go over well with the Clausing customers and although all of the model number changes stayed, the company name change, or at least what appeared on the machine nameplates, didn't.  So although many if not most would be willing, as a group the Atlas owners are likely to only be familiar with Atlas machines.  So stay where you are.
> 
> If you will look in Downloads in the Clausing... folder under Lathes, you will find a manual on the 4800 Series lathe.  There is a Woodruff key shown in the exploded view drawings as bubble # 78.  According to the numerical parts list 'way in the back of the manual it says that this is a #404 Woodruff Key.  It is not mentioned in the spindle removal instructions and a set screw in the bull gear is neither mentioned nor shown in the exploded view headstock drawings.  But it should be there.  The tapered roller spindle bearings do not appear to have any dust caps like the similar 12" Atlas machines.  But it would appear that the spindle can be removed from the headstock without removing the key.
> 
> However, to remove the stuck chuck, you might try dropping the banjo (AKA Change Gear Bracket) out of the way and putting a non-metallic strap wrench around the 32 tooth spindle gear as a means of locking the spindle.  Then once the chuck is removed, follow the spindle removal instructions in order to determine what the deal is with key # 78 that should lock the bull gear to the spindle.



I hadn't thought of a strap wrench around the 32 tooth gear! That's a great idea.

Now, as far as that 32 tooth gear, if you look at the picture I posted, mine is a bit different than in the drawings, with a cylinder protruding from the back of it. Not sure if that makes any difference as far as removal goes, but I'm still puzzled as to how to back it off sufficiently to get a gear puller in there.


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## wa5cab (Jul 22, 2020)

First, the piece of pipe sticking out from the left end of the spindle looks like someones attempt at a spider.  Most likely it is internally threaded  on the right end and screwed onto the spindle in place of the collar that is normally in the position.  So step one of an attempt to remove the spindle from the headstock would be to unscrew the spider.    Before doing that, rotate the spindle and look for a set screw in the spider.  The collar that it replaced had one.  And the collar to the right of the 32T gear is also threaded according to the spindle removal instructions.  After removing the spider, if the 32T gear doesn't just slip off, I would start by sharpening a putty knife and driving it in between the gear and the collar.  The instructions to remove the 32T gear with a wooden block make no sense.


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## wa5cab (Jul 23, 2020)

BTW, your photo shows that the bull gear (large gear towards the right end of the spindle) is missing a tooth.


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## stoatmax (Jul 23, 2020)

Update: The strap wrench method proved successful in removing the chuck.

A question - when the spindle is removed, does it come out towards the front (chuck end) or the rear?




wa5cab said:


> First, the piece of pipe sticking out from the left end of the spindle looks like someones attempt at a spider.  Most likely it is internally threaded  on the right end and screwed onto the spindle in place of the collar that is normally in the position.  So step one of an attempt to remove the spindle from the headstock would be to unscrew the spider.    Before doing that, rotate the spindle and look for a set screw in the spider.  The collar that it replaced had one.  And the collar to the right of the 32T gear is also threaded according to the spindle removal instructions.  After removing the spider, if the 32T gear doesn't just slip off, I would start by sharpening a putty knife and driving it in between the gear and the collar.  The instructions to remove the 32T gear with a wooden block make no sense.



A spider makes sense. It could be threaded - there is no visible clearance between where the threads end and the gear begins. There is however about 1/8" or so of clearance between the gear and that threaded collar, maybe less. It occurs to me that a small gear separator may be able to get enough purchase to back off the back gear, assuming it isn't threaded on as well.
Re: set screw, there is a hole where one appears to have been. The previous owner seems to have tried to loosen the spider/gear assembly using a punch and hammer in the hole. Yikes.



wa5cab said:


> BTW, your photo shows that the bull gear (large gear towards the right end of the spindle) is missing a tooth.



Yes, that's another problem. Some have told me it's kosher to run it with a single missing tooth. My gut tells me it'd be best to build up a weld there and machine or grind a new tooth. That, or start with a new gear blank, but I imagine the cost of machining adding up quite quickly on that.


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## wa5cab (Jul 24, 2020)

The spindle comes out of the right/chuck/tailstock end.

The back gears will probably run with one broken tooth but you won't be doing the mating back gear any favors.  

As the gear is cast iron rather than Zamak which it is in the somewhat similar Atlas machines, it can probably be fixed if you have or can get access to the appropriate welding equipment and gear hob.  But whether that will be cheaper rather than more expensive depends upon a bunch of variables.  I would personally first look for a used replacement.  According to the 4800 manual, the part number changed from Gear DL-220 to Gear Assembly DL-220S at serial number 16673.  However, the parts of the assembly probably consist of the DL-220 Gear plus the direct drive pin and detent components.  Which may have been the only way they sold it to begin with.  We do have the Clausing drawing of DL-220 gear.  Which you will need if you try to repair it as it gives the gear tooth details.  

The machine model number before the Atlas purchase was 100 Mk 3.  It's parts list gives the bull gear part number as DL-218.  So the two may not be interchangeable.  You will need to call Clausing and ask before you start looking for a used replacement.


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## mikeyjones (Mar 31, 2021)

stoatmax said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I very recently picked up an old 4804 and have begun the process of getting it back into running condition. First order of business seems to be to replace the spindle bearings, as they are without a doubt roached. After that, it's mostly a lot of cleanup, oiling, and other setup to get it dialed in.
> 
> ...



You ever figure out how to pull the spindle gear on the left off?  I'm fighting this issue w/ my 4804 right now.


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## 34_40 (Mar 31, 2021)

Roberts reply just about yours.. says it goes out the right, towards tailstock.


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## mikeyjones (Mar 31, 2021)

34_40 said:


> Roberts reply just about yours.. says it goes out the right, towards tailstock



Yep understand that the spindle comes out toward the tailstock. However to get to that point, I need to remove the spindle gear on the left side of the headstock. There’s no way it can come off to the right.


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## wa5cab (Apr 1, 2021)

AFAIK. all of the visible components inside the headstock that ride or run on the spindle  except for the bearings are positioned in the approximate final location and the spindle is inserted from the right and slid through them.  I am not sure how the Woodruff key in the bull gear is handled.  Pay attention to the serial number as the manual that I just looked at shows five headstock versions.  Probably the first thing to come off will be the gear on the left end of the spindle.  The parts lists do not show how it is retained.  Next is a threaded take up collar with 1/4"-20 set screw or two.  Loosen set screw(s) and unscrew and remove collar.  Next is a collar with one or two set screws.  Loosen them.  There is what looks like a set screw in the pulley. But it is an oil plus.  However, play it safe and loosen the plug in case a PO didn't know what they were doing.  With the direct drive pin pulled out, the pulley should be free to turn.  Finally, there is a set screw in the bull gear hub that should be loosened.  There are two 1/8" groove pins shown but all that I can figure them for is for locking the bushing in the pulley bore.


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## mikeyjones (Apr 1, 2021)

wa5cab said:


> AFAIK. all of the visible components that ride or run on the spindle  except for the bearings are positioned in the approximate final location and the spindle is inserted from the right and slid through them.  I am not sure how the Woodruff key in the bull gear is handled.  Pay attention to the serial number as the manual that I just looked at shows five headstock versions.  Probably the first thing to come off will be the gear on the left end of the spindle.  The parts lists do not show how it is retained.  Next is a threaded take up collar with 1/4"-20 set screw or two.  Loosen set screw(s) and unscrew and remove collar.  Next is a collar with one or two set screws.  Loosen them.  There is what looks like a set screw in the pulley. But it is an oil plug.  However, play it safe and loosen the plug in case a PO didn't know what they were doing.  With the direct drive pin pulled out, the pulley should be free to turn.  Finally, there is a set screw in the bull gear hub that should be loosened.  There are two 1/8" groove pins shown but all that I can figure them for is for locking the bushing in the pulley bore.


Yep that first gear is where I'm running into an issue.  Regardless of serial number all versions of the 4800 have the same set up for that gear.  It's not enough room to get a gear puller onto it and the threaded on collar is to the right of it so I can't move it toward the tailstock.


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## wa5cab (Apr 1, 2021)

All that I can suggest is to loosen the set screw(s) in the takeup collar and try to back it off.  Also, everything that I mentioned moving or loosening for removing the spindle should be done before you try another block of wood so as to drive the spindle through the gear, as the spindle will have to move to the right.


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## Albe0038 (Jul 22, 2021)

mikeyjones said:


> Yep that first gear is where I'm running into an issue.  Regardless of serial number all versions of the 4800 have the same set up for that gear.  It's not enough room to get a gear puller onto it and the threaded on collar is to the right of it so I can't move it toward the tailstock.


Have you managed to get the gear off the spindle? I have a Clausing 4804 and am also not able to remove the spindle gear. There is no set screw, only an unthreaded hole to the left of what appears to be the key slot.


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## COMachinist (Jul 29, 2021)

Use a bearing separator and a gear puller. That gear is a press on fit.
CH








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Amazing deals on this Bearing Separator And Puller Set at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.




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## markba633csi (Jul 31, 2021)

Yes a knife edge separator is needed
-M


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