# How much space to allow for a milling machine?



## HMiller (Jul 5, 2020)

I just won two Cincinnati horizontal milling machines at the local high school auction. Sight unseen, but at 200 bucks I couldn't resist (as I tell my wife, scarp value is more than that) . I'll have them moved into my shed, but now I need to make room... 

How much space do I allow on each side for these? I'm not planning on moving them again so I need to get good placement now. All advice is welcome (though I reserve the right to ignore what I decide is bad). Do I put them tight against the wall, or allow lots of space behind. Do I put them next to each other or on opposite sides of the shop... 

My main interest is antique tractors so my plan is making parts that cannot be found any other way.


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## Flyinfool (Jul 5, 2020)

As far as arrangement in your shop, that is entirely up to you and what will work best for your situation.
As far as space around them, make sure that at the limits of travel in all directions you still have access to all sides to be able to work as well as to be able to access all mechanics of the machine for maintenance and/or repair.


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## benmychree (Jul 5, 2020)

One thing that can be done is to position them at an angle to the wall so that table travels and long parts do not interfere with each other. As to how close they could be, You do not say how much room is available, or what style machine they are, but with milling machines, I think they should be located near each other, as they likely share a lot of tooling, which should be located close to the mills.


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## samstu (Jul 5, 2020)

No matter how large or small, the milling machines won't take nearly as much space as the spousal compensation gift.... without pictures or knowing models: Figure 6x6 but mills are like old tractors, the big ones are cheaper than the smaller ones, so for 200 bucks......


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## Bob Korves (Jul 5, 2020)

In a home hobby shop, machines can be placed closer together if you do not plan to use them at the same time.  Set them up so you can move the table on the machine you are not using as far away as possible, and if you can then get full travel on the one you are currently using, no problem!


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## vocatexas (Jul 5, 2020)

My big K&T has an electrical box on the back with a large label saying to give at least two feet clearance so the panel can be accessed. You don't want to back a machine up to a wall and then have to move it if you need to reset a breaker.


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## FOMOGO (Jul 6, 2020)

If you google the model, you should be able to find all the info you need. You will need to leave enough room behind the mill to allow full range of movement of the over arm. Cincinnati made a wide range of milling machines, many of them are pretty good size (5k-15k pound range). If you can move them yourself, that's great. If not it may cost you many times that original $200 to move them. Let us know the model, and we could be much more helpful. Mike


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## HMiller (Jul 6, 2020)

A model would nice, too bad none is visible on the one picture I have. Like I said, I didn't get a chance to inspect them first. I assume high school means some abuse, but hopefully I can work around that. 

One picture has a man in the background by which I can judge the base is 4 by 5 feet, more or less. It is a greaves Cincinnati if that means anything (I wouldn't think so). The other looks 6 feet deep but the angle gives me less idea of width. 

If I have them 2 feet from the wall and allow 4 feet between them am I likely to regret that? Too close together? 

I'm not going to attempt to move these, I already verified there is a rigging company in town that can move them (for once I was smart enough to do that first).  However that is why my question, I need to point they go there and have them put in the final resting place. Otherwise it is more money to move them again if I get it wrong.


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## HarryJM (Jul 6, 2020)

In my smallish shed/shop I keep at least enough space between machines to be able to have access to all sides for repairs/maintenance/etc.


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## brino (Jul 6, 2020)

Hello @HMiller,

My first thought for an answer to your questions was "Well, how long is a piece of rope?"
There are a lot of variables that affect the real answer, the biggest being what model of mill.
But after thinking about my own experiences,  perhaps I can provide a little help....

Here's some shots of the old Cincinnati that I got:
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/gallery/albums/my-1916-cincinnati-3s-milling-machine.364/
I first saw it out in the snow with the base buried; the barn had been partially dismantled to remove a huge press.

I got mine delivered by a guy with a big boom truck, he was there picking up a huge radial drill that he bought and since my house was on his way home I gave him some cash to get mine too. I had him drop it on top of a thick plywood sheet right in front of my garage. I had raked up the gravel to put the top of the plywood flush with the concrete floor. I used some black pipe between the plywood and the machine. Then I could pull it in with a come-along. I even spun it around (once inside and I had the pipes out) by wrapping the strap around the base of the machine; as I pulled it unwrapped exactly into place. I have moved it a couple times since.

When I got mine I contacted Cincinnati Machine Tool thru a link on their website.
I had the model number "3S", but they could provide no info until I gave a serial number that they told me where to find.
Once I had that they told me the age (1916!), mass (11,000lbs!), recommended oil, etc.

A few things to consider:

1) How is the floor in your shed? 
My mill is about the same weight as two pickup trucks....which my garage floor should also handle, but it is concentrated into a roughly 4' x 5' square. I make sure to keep mine away from some anchors drilled thru the slab.

2) There are a number of Cincinnati manuals available on this very site, even some that I bought, scanned and uploaded when I was trying to find my manuals. However, I believe you need to be a "donating member" to have download privileges (to help defray server costs).
See here: https://www.hobby-machinist.com/resources/categories/cincinnati-except-grinders.30/

There are also some manuals on VintageMachinery here:
http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=2097&tab=3

Get a copy of the book "A Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines" while you're there. Great book!

3) for positioning:
-you may need more space around it to do any cleaning and repairs before you put it to work
-I have the vertical head for mine, but to use that I need the overarm pushed way back (like the "early peek" photo in my gallery album above)
for a few years I had it "backed into a corner" and that allowed enough space to get around it and push the over-arm way back.
(although I suppose that yours are the "new-fangled" dovetail style overarm, so maybe this doesn't apply)
-to add/remove the vertical head I need to be able to get the engine hoist manoeuvred around the front of the mill, you may need the same for a rotary table, indexing head, or even a big mill vise or large work-piece.

Have fun and be safe!
-brino


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