# Clausing Colchester 15 is available



## Janderso

Hello,
I just checked this lathe out.
Serial number is— 6/0015/05751, I am trying to determine the year of production.
	

		
			
		

		
	








Everything works great! I love the features of this lathe. The ways are clean and the saddle, compound are smooth and have little free play.
The brake works well, auto reverse, vari-speed is noisy but not overly so. 
I like this old lathe.
Spindle taper is spotless.
What are the common issues to watch for?


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## Janderso

I am struggling between good old iron or a new Taiwan lathe.
When I stand next to a 14” Taiwan lathe, I am surprised at how little mass they have.
Not so with a Monarch, Clausing, LeBlond etc.


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## Bob Korves

That one looks good, Jeff.  My guess would be 1960's, maybe '70's.  It looks well taken care of from the pics.


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## samthedog

That lathe follows the lines of the Colchester Triumph 2000 due to it's 2000 rpm top speed. Hard to know the exact date of manufacture but I would take a stab at late 60's based on the color. The belt cover can also give an idea of date as earlier models used cast aluminium whereas later models used fiber glass. The lathes are pretty robust and reliable so there is little to go bad with them. The clutch may need adjusting from time to time but that is about it. The clutches were made by Matrix and Ortlinghaus and were bullet-proof. The lathes are not quiet but they are workhorses and have a decent spindle hole which allows turning larger stock. I nearly bought a Triumph 2000 before I found my immaculate Chipmaster. If the price is right jump on it. They are decent lathes with a hardened bed and should last a lifetime of hobby use.

Paul.


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## Janderso

I needed to hear your comments. I am coming from a 1941 13" South Bend. This lathe is so much more capable, tight and robust.
The spindle bore is huge and 2,000 RPM is a game changer for sure.
I have seen videos on the oiling system for the head, the designers engineered these to last a long time if properly maintained.
I am looking forward to getting to know this lathe.
It is wired for 440 but that should not be a problem.
I am a bit concerned about the electrical requirements though. 
The plate says 230 volts, 23 amps. 7.5HP.
It can be done, just need to plan accordingly.


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## BROCKWOOD

15HP American Rotary setup for 240V should be about right!


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## Janderso

I was hoping to power the lathe with the same VFD I had planned for the mill.
The mill is a 3HP and the lathe is 7.5.
Oh well, i'm thrilled to have the Clausing!! I'll work something out.
The 92 year old machinist I bought the B&S Micromaster from had a Rotary Phase Converter that powered his whole shop.


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## Bob Korves

If you are using a VFD, it is far better to get one for each machine.  The parameters that suit one machine are not necessarily the same for a second machine, and any switches or disconnects between VFD and machine motor can cause failures.


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## john.k

Judging by requests for spares,the feed gears would be something I would give close attention to........Incidentally ,I bought one new in 1978.....it cost $10,000....that one looks a little older........it has 75 in the number ,so that might be guess.....They are an excellent machine,vastly improved on the "roundheads" that went before..........virtually the same machine is still made both in Taiwan/China ,and by 600 Machinery.......last I heard 600 had moved production to Poland....but the Asian version is still in production.


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## Janderso

$10,000 in 1978 was a lot of money. Sounds cheap now.
Bob, I don't know why I was thinking the way I was regarding the single VFD.
You are right, it wouldn't work.
I think when the time comes I'll get a Rotary Phase Converter and be done with it.
The machines are adding up. I best make a decision soon where I will set them up.
I'm still looking for commercial space closer to home. I may end up at a friend's shop.
Thank you four ideas.


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## Janderso

john.k said:


> Judging by requests for spares,the feed gears would be something I would give close attention to......


Please explain. I am not familiar with this issue.
I know someone who can make gears though


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## john.k

Colchester have always had the charming habit of using non standard gears.......their gears are very difficult for a beginner to make.......now if you have a gear hobbing shop,I stand corrected............However ,were I to buy another used lathe...unlikely,.....I would ask for the gear covers to be removed,and check the gears visually..........failing this,I would then engage each and every gear in the head,and turn the machine "backwards" via the chuck......I would then disconnect the feed box ,and do the same,both for leadscrew and feedrod. drives.........any busted gears should cause a noticeable jam up....................dont be fooled by dealers "warranties" and assurances.....there is a lot of hassle involved in buying a lathe,and you dont want to discover how expensive spares are straight away the machine is installed in your shop.


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## BROCKWOOD

Janderso said:


> I was hoping to power the lathe with the same VFD I had planned for the mill.
> The mill is a 3HP and the lathe is 7.5.
> Oh well, i'm thrilled to have the Clausing!! I'll work something out.
> The 92 year old machinist I bought the B&S Micromaster from had a Rotary Phase Converter that powered his whole shop.



The very valid point here is to plan ahead. I had no idea that I wanted or needed a real lathe once I ordered up my RPC & sized it perfectly for the 1 mill. Now, I'm realizing that I have a choice as I move forward: Get a lathe that also uses a 5HP or less motor or expect to get a whole new RPC for a 5+HP lathe.

At what HP rating do the VFDs max out at anyway?


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## Bob Korves

BROCKWOOD said:


> The very valid point here is to plan ahead. I had no idea that I wanted or needed a real lathe once I ordered up my RPC & sized it perfectly for the 1 mill. Now, I'm realizing that I have a choice as I move forward: Get a lathe that also uses a 5HP or less motor or expect to get a whole new RPC for a 5+HP lathe.
> 
> At what HP rating do the VFDs max out at anyway?


VFDs go up to really high power ratings, over 100 hp, I assume.  But they are $$$$$.  In a home shop an RPC usually starts to take over when more than about two 3 phase machines are present, or if one machine is over about 5 hp.  No real knowledge here, just what I have gleaned from discussions.  Decisions like these also morph with changes in technology and with what else becomes available, and at what cost.


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## mksj

Single phase input VFDs typically max out at 5 Hp, I would use a Yaskawa and they run around $650.  Beyond 5 Hp, you need to buy a 3 phase input VFD and derate it for use on single phase. The typical number to multiply the motor Hp/kW by ~1.7 and round up to the nearest available sized VFD. So a 7.5 Hp motor would need a minimum 12.75 Hp rated VFD and rounding up one gets 15 Hp, so you would need something like a Hitachi WJ00-110LF which run a bit over $800. The other consideration is that even though you are derating the VFD for operation at a lower power, the input wiring and fusing need to be rated for the full current of the VFD. So it adds up quickly and you cannot just connect the VFD to the machine and have it work. At this size level, an RPC may be a better and less expensive option. Looks like you would need a 15 Hp RPC, it all depends on the manufacture and the specs.

A few other considerations, you could switch out the stock motor to a 5 Hp (run around $300-400 on eBay) and use a 5 Hp VFD. You will have more than enough power, another option would be if you used an RPC for multiple machines, you could get by with a 10 Hp RPC and running the lathe off of a 7.5 Hp VFD with the 3 phase input from the RPC.  Only practical in bigger shops where you may already have an RPC. VFD's can be run off of RPC's, but the RPC has to be rated for a higher output current than the VFD. There are a few other caveats depending on who you talk to.

You have not mentioned the price, but if you are pushing 8-10K range then there are a number of other new lathes to consider that may be less expensive in the long run. I have worked with a number of individuals that have purchased the RML-1440/1640 from different vendors. These come with 5 Hp motors, and also  are available with a factory VFD that will run off of single phase. They are around 3300 lbs so fairly robust, also a few people have purchased the Eisen 1440EV which comes with a VFD, has a wide bed and they weigh around 2400lbs. All of these individuals have been very happy with these lathes.


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## Janderso

It looks like a RPC may be the most economical choice.
Price is close to $5,000.
I was trying to get an idea what price range these lathes go for.
Ebay had them dirty, ugly and worn out for a lot more than what I payed.
Of course, what they sell for is another matter.


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## Janderso

I’m trying to date and identify the lathe. Serial # 6/0015/0751 places it around 1971 in the, Triumph 2,000 category.
According to, lathes.co.uk, articles pertaining to this model stated, all gears in headstock, d1-6 cam lock, drive gears etc. we’re hardened and ground.
This picture is of the Triumph 2000. It is my lathe in every way, even the paint is correct.


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## mmcmdl

I was running one last night , nice machines . If I had to buy 1 lathe and only 1 , the 15" Colchester would be the one ………………….or the Hardinge HLV-H ……………………..


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## Janderso

I know nothing of the Hardinge. I did notice, Tom's Techniques, youtube videos include his Hardinge Lathe.
Joe Pieczynski, runs a Colchester, I think it's a 13".
I became familiar with the Clausing Colchesters features after watching Joe's videos.
The instant auto reverse, ease of changing speeds, the foot brake, on-off controls at the head and saddle, quality of manufacture etc.
I assume you own one Mr. mmcmdl?
I may asking you some questions if you don't mind.
Where to get parts? Like the serpentine drive belt for one.??
How to acquire a 5C D1-6 collet chuck and quick release fixture? (I'm not sure what you call that set-up)
Thank you,
Jeff


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## Bob Korves

Janderso said:


> How to acquire a 5C D1-6 collet chuck and quick release fixture?


On a lathe of that size and power, I would be looking at a used Hardinge Sjogren collet chuck set, takes 5C, 2J, 3J or 22J collets, depending on the model, or maybe a bigger than 5C lever collet closer.  I sold a 2J one for a friend some years ago.  Very nice collet chuck!  A lever collet closer would be better for production work.  Again, maybe larger than 5C.  What size is the spindle bore?


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## Janderso

The bore is 2 1/8". 
Spindle is 4MT
D1-6 cam lock.
"On a lathe of that size and power, I would be looking at a used Hardinge Sjogren collet chuck set, takes 5C, 2J, 3J or 22J collets "
I know nothing about the collet options, thank you.
Now that I know what will fit, I can start watching E-bay and Craigslist.
I will also need a 4 jaw down the road.
8"??? 10"??


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## mmcmdl

No , I wish I did own one though . ( not really because I'm downsizing) We have them at work .  The Sjogren chucks are available on the Bay everyday . I have a few on there but no D1-6 s . I sold a 22j set last year and I believe the coletts went up to 2" or more . Alls I have left is a D1-8 and Lo mount Jacobs flex sets .


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## Bob Korves

Janderso said:


> I know nothing about the collet options, thank you.


https://www.roviproducts.com/collet-chucks/sjogren-speed-manual-collet-chucks/


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## john.k

The standard collet system for the Colchester lathes is the Burnerd Multisize, no doubt because Pratt Burnerd is part of the group.  However any reliable (and available) system will be OK.


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## mksj

Janderso said:


> On a lathe of that size and power, I would be looking at a used Hardinge Sjogren collet chuck set, takes 5C, 2J, 3J or 22J collets


Good price on the lathe if everything else checks out, I also would check threading gears to make sure they selector works for engagement.

The chances of finding a used Hardinge Sjogren 5C in a D1-6 at a reasonable price is slim to none. You would be better off fabricating a through the spindle type 5C system or going with a Bison/TMX 5C chuck set-tru with a back plate. Price wise they run around $800-900 new. The 5C is pretty common and you can get decent 5C collets sets at a reasonable through CDCO, I recommend a 1/64th. There is also 16C collet chucks from Bison/TMX but much more expensive along with the collets.

https://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/biadfor456se.html
https://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/bisettrucoch1.html

Lever closurer
https://www.jfkprecisionproducts.com/
https://www.roviproducts.com/collet...ed/5c-lever-activated-collet-closer-complete/

This direct mount is also a possibility although I haven't had very good luck with these Chinese chucks meeting the claimed TIR spec.
https://www.accusizetools.com/5c-5-collet-chuck-with-integral-d1-6-camlock-mounting-0269-0016/


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## Janderso

Good information,
Thank you!


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## mmcmdl

Janderso said:


> I assume you own one Mr. mmcmdl?
> I may asking you some questions if you don't mind.
> Where to get parts? Like the serpentine drive belt for one.??
> How to acquire a 5C D1-6 collet chuck and quick release fixture? (I'm not sure what you call that set-up)
> Thank you,
> Jeff





pacifica said:


> So how do you measure to get a class 3 internal thread? I have no problem measuring for a class 3 external.



Jeff , I don't own one . We have the 15" Colchester , a 15" Harrison ( which is identical to the Clausing ) , a 13" Colchester , and a 13" Clausing Medosa in here at work . All of them are nice . 5 grand isn't an extreme price for the right lathe , and that one looks to be in pretty good shape . If you need info , shoot me a pm and I'll walk down to the shop and pull some papers . If you did get it , congrats !


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## Janderso

The direct mount looks like the ticket. Less than $500.
I assumed all 5c type collet chucks went through the spindle.
For a hobby guy, no need for the extra hardware and expense.


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## Bob Korves

Janderso said:


> The direct mount looks like the ticket. Less than $500.
> I assumed all 5c type collet chucks went through the spindle.
> For a hobby guy, no need for the extra hardware and expense.


Having a 2" spindle bore is a real asset.  Try to get tooling that can use as much of the entire bore size as possible, within cost restraints.  Take your time, good deals on good stuff will appear if you keep looking.  5C will not let you do that, only 1" through the collets.


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## Janderso

Now I can see the limitations of a 5C.
As I move into a final solution I will be more seasoned, before I decide which spindle collet to choose thanks to this forum.
I appreciate your time,
Thank you very much.


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## seasicksteve

Pratt Burnerd multisize collet chuck it is the shizz


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## mksj

Typically you use 5C to hold smaller stock that doesn't hold well in 3J chucks or 4J. I use the 5C about 50% of the time for small diameter work. The larger collet system for larger stock, a collet system like 5C and 16C is less than ideal because it only holds stock at the tip of the collet. You get more skew and run-out with these types of collets. If you want to hold bigger stock then use a 3J or 4J, if tubing then a 6J chuck. I would not waste your money on very expensive collet systems need to hold stock over 1". The only "inexpensive" collet system is an ER-40 set collet chuck sold by Shar's and you need to turn a back plate. The down side with ER systems is it does not do a good job of holding very short stock, it is cumbersome (at least for me) to wrench the collet nut. You need a 1/32" increment collet set to effectively cover clamping all size stock, the largest collet is around 1-3/16".

Not to down play this size lathe, but I would give some consideration to what you will be using the lathe for and different options given the power requirements and additional expenses for say adding a 15 HP RPC. A 1440GT will have the same size spindle with a shorter headstock, and most the features you describe. A 3 Hp VFD will run around $320 and you are good to go, other than the tooling. Buying a 15 Hp RPC panels and wiring will add up quickly.  I have yet to have anybody complain that the 3 Hp stock 3 phase motor was a limiting factor. A bigger lathe is nice for rigidity, DOC and work envelope, but everything is bigger and costs more.


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## wa5cab

There are collets made that are larger than the 5C.  However, to double the capacity you may be quadrupling the cost.  Plus doubling the diameter, at least of a solid piece, also quadruples the weight.  My general opinion would be that if the 5C or the ER40 or ER50 isn't large enough to hold most of your work, you may be better off investing the money in a Buck style 3- or 6-jaw chuck.


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## Janderso

All your input helps guide my decisions,
Thank you.


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## Dabbler

First - Congrats!  My friend just found your exact lathe on Kijiji 1000 miles away and bought it sight-unseen.  They are Fantastic lathes!  You will be very happy with it!!

On collets, you might consider ER40 or ER50 collets.  ER40 is much cheaper, and goes up up 26mm - 1".  The 50 gives you larger sizes, the the collets are about 2.5 times the cost.  They hold many times more securely than 5C and good ones hold the work along the whole length of the collet, ensuring concentricity and repeatability.  My personal choice.


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## Janderso

Janderso said:


> The bore is 2 1/8".
> Spindle is 4MT
> D1-6 cam lock.
> 
> CORRECTION, it has a 6 Morse Taper spindle. A 4 MT Tail Stock.
> It was pointed out to me an MT 5 would fall in. Correct.


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## mmcmdl

I had a D1-8 Hardinge 22J for the 17" that I sold awhile back . I believe the collets went up to 2" or so . That was nice not having to swing the 3 jaw around on smaller parts .


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## Janderso

I’m impressed with the apron controls, smooth with tight tolerances.
When I took the cover off, I checked for wear, missing gear teeth, condition in general. There is no visible wear and the controls on the headstock and gear box have the same smooth as glass feel.
This is my first experience with anything of this quality.
I can’t wait to start making chips.


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## gi_984

Janderso, I learned lathe operations on those 15-17 inch swing Clausing Colchesters.  We had a row of them at the tech school.  Also had a few smaller 13 inch swing Colchesters stuck in the corners of the shop for smaller jobs.  
They are well made and smooth operating machines.  Ours withstood years of student usage.
Couple things besides the obvious.  The bearings (advertised as Gamet) are rare as hell now days.  Any spindle issues could be a deal breaker.
Second, make sure the clutch and handle shifts smooth from start to stop.  If not it probably just needs adjusting.  Simple to do.  
Also get a 3/4 thick piece of plywood to put on top of the lathe bed and under the chuck to protect the bed when changing out.  Most folks are surprised at first at just how heavy and awkward chucks and face plates can be when you get into industrial size machines.


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## gi_984

Additionally get the steady rest for it.  And put it on the bed to make sure it fits. The dealer or the original seller could easily have mixed them up.  The steady rests for the 15 and 17 inch swing look very similar.  The students were always mixing them up between machines.


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## wa5cab

gi_984 said:


> Also get a 3/4 thick piece of plywood to put on top of the lathe bed and under the chuck to protect the bed when changing out.  Most folks are surprised at first at just how heavy and awkward chucks and face plates can be when you get into industrial size machines.



Years ago, I addressed this problem a little differently.  I had some 4x4 fence posts left over from repairs after Hurricane Ike.  And a Pratt-Bernerd Buck clone that seems to weigh more than it did when I was 35.  I cut a piece of 4x4 to length equal to bed width (on a V-bed you'd have to notch the bottom to clear the "V").  Then lay the 4x4 across the bed and slide it up against the front of the chuck.  With a pencil, trace the OD of the chuck onto the side of the block.  Cut out the arc and you have a stand for the chuck while connecting or disconnecting it to/from the spindle.  If the OD of the chuck isn't smooth, you may have to further notch the arc for clearance.  My 4-jaw was that way.


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## gi_984

[QUOTE "cut a piece of 4x4 to length equal to bed width (on a V-bed you'd have to notch the bottom to clear the "V").  Then lay the 4x4 across the bed and slide it up against the front of the chuck.  With a pencil, trace the OD of the chuck onto the side of the block.  Cut out the arc and you have a stand for the chuck while connecting or disconnecting it to/from the spindle.  If the OD of the chuck isn't smooth, you may have to further notch the arc for clearance.





> Yes, I've done similar for bigger lathes and 8 inch up chucks.  Had those at the school shop.  Works well when you match the radius/arc to the chuck/faceplate you are taking on and off.  Helps minimize pinching of the hands between the chuck and the bed.  Ask me how I know!  You learn quick after one time.
> For the little lathes the piece of plywood is sufficient.  As I get older a skyhook or similar will be on the buy list.  Used one before.  While tedious to remove and install, it is a hand and back saver.
> Janderso, it is worth getting a smaller 6 inch chuck for the majority of work.  I use a 6 inch most of the time.  Reserving the bigger hardware for bigger work.  Saves on the wresting when installing the collet chuck.  Let us know if you purchase and need any help.  Multiple members here own or have operated these.


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## Janderso

Took the chuck off yesterday to polish out the spindle taper. 
Removing these D1-6 cam lock chucks is a piece of cake. I put 2x4's on the ways.
Much easier than my threaded spindle on the old South Bend.


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## petryss

Janderso said:


> Hello,
> I just checked this lathe out.
> Serial number is— 6/0015/05751, I am trying to determine the year of production.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 284010
> View attachment 284011
> View attachment 284012
> View attachment 284013
> View attachment 284014
> View attachment 284015
> 
> Everything works great! I love the features of this lathe. The ways are clean and the saddle, compound are smooth and have little free play.
> The brake works well, auto reverse, vari-speed is noisy but not overly so.
> I like this old lathe.
> Spindle taper is spotless.
> What are the common issues to watch for?


Mine is 06/0015 19956 and is a late 70's. Haven't found actual year yet.


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## Janderso

petryss said:


> Mine is 06/0015 19956 and is a late 70's. Haven't found actual year yet.


Hello petryss 
You brought my thread back to life.
Congratulations on you lathe.
Oh, and welcome to the forum.
It took me a while to get use to my lathe-same as yours. I,ve emptied the cavernous chip pan a few times now. We have become best friends.
A word of warning, I checked the oil lines in the headstock and found the clear hose to the spindle bearing had come out of its hole.
I replaced the tube with a new flexible tube. Scared the bajesus out of me but all seems well.
Hey, tell us about your lathe, take some pics.
Jeff


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## boneyard51

Way back in the previous century and twenty five years, I walked into a shop looking for a job. It turned out to be a machine shop, I was a mechanic! They hired me on the spot, because I could actually read a set of mics! They put me on a Warner-Swassy 5A machine and I thought I was a machinist! After a while I realized I was just “ horse power! About this time we were trying to be more correct .... and were making a lot of junk parts! The boss asked me if I wanted to sign on the job of “ rework” . This was after only being there 9 months! I jumped on the job and he put me on a 15 inch Calausing/Clochester lathe very similar to the one in your picture! I loved that machine! I now have a 12 inch Clausing, but it’s nothing like that beauty!




Bones


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## Janderso

Well boneyard, I love this lathe too.
Pic of it set up in my shop.


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## boneyard51

Janderso said:


> Well boneyard, I love this lathe too.
> Pic of it set up in my shop.


Looks like you have yourself set up for some fun! Nice layout! I see you are a Ford man and ride motorcycles! Excellent! 







Bones


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