# Lubricants for vintage lathe



## Izzy (Jan 24, 2017)

So some of you may know I'm restoring a vintage lathe with no manuals or info on the company. This left me with alot of researching to do about lubricants and what I should use on my lathe. And I'm sure alot of you know the info you find is kind of overwhelming! And varies, some recommend oil A. Some recomend oil B. So I decided to simply just ask for a straight forward answer on what I should use!
Currently I've got mobile vactra no.2 for the slides so that's taken care of.
The apron currently has 80w-90 gear oil, that's all I really had and some oil is better than none. The apron is all geared and has a cone type clutch also it's not inclosed so it doesn't sit in an oil bath and there is no wicks in the apron. With that info what should be good for the apron?
The head stock I've read anything from a hydraulic ISO 32 - ISO 68 and I read of one guy using ATF! The head stock just has plain journal bearings made of bronze. And does not sit in an oil bath it has oiler holes.
And finally the gear box for the motor. The motor has a 3 speed reversing gear box that's very similarly set up like a manual transmission with synchro/blocker rings made of either brass or bronze I'm not sure. I opened up the gear box to inspect it and everything moves freely and no broken parts so I decided just to dump the old oil clean it out and put it new fluid. But what should I use in this gear box the fluid in there looks green! That's not the camera playing tricks :s
So please let me know what your recommendations are for:
1. The apron
2. The head stock
3. The gear box


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## Nogoingback (Jan 24, 2017)

For oil lubricated spindle bearings I would look at Mobil Velocite Spindle Oil, which could also be used on other points on the lathe that need oil.   Open gears can use open gear greases: they're sticky and won't run off.
The gear box is a good question, but since it looks like an old car transmission I would think 80-90 weight gear oil would work.  I'd be inclined to clean
out ALL of the old stuff first though, so you don't mix lubricants.


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## 4GSR (Jan 24, 2017)

Izzy,

That "green" looking oil may be an result of bronze bushing wear from the use of gear oil.  With heat, the two materials could have changed the color of the oil from wear and age of the oil.

Personally, put some 30wt or ISO 68 oil in the gear box and run with that.  Leave the gear oil for the truck. That gear box will never have to work hard for a living ever again, so no need for a heavy duty oil.  With out knowing the lathe you have, it would be hard to determine what oil to use.  In general the headstock should get ISO 32, 46, or 68 oil.  Your apron should not have 80wt gear oil in it.  Again, Vatra 2 or ISO 46 or 68 is all it needs.  

Ken


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## Izzy (Jan 24, 2017)

@Nogoingback I was kind of curious about the change gears aswell but I ended up getting the motorcycle chain lube, I read a few guys using it. I deffinetly plan to bring it to work and wash it out in the parts cleaner. I'm not sure if that's original to the machine or not..
@4gsr its a D. McKenzie lathe there isn't really any info on these so I'm just trying to go by general rule of thumb for open journal bearings using drip oilers but, I could could use some hydraulic ISO 68 fluid for the gear box and head stock and the vactra no.2 for the apron and slides?  With how similar it is to a manual transmission I was thinking of using Synchromesh or similar type fluid. I'm assuming it's suppose to be changed from time to time there is a drain and a fill plug im guessing it just hasn't been done in a while!


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## Glenn Brooks (Jan 24, 2017)

Here are a Couple of basic guidelines regarding lube oil:  

1) for old, vintage, antique, 1950 or earlier machines, ALWAYS use non-hypoid gear lube -never use modern automotive lube.   The specification for this type oil is GL-1 (straight mineral oil).  This rating will be marked on the container.  The key here is to use mineral oil that contains no high performance additives.  The additives in Gl-2 thru Gl-5 lube  leach copper out of the early day base metals comprising your gears.  hence harming the brass and bronze alloys used in old gears, and seals.  

It's quite possible the greenish color in your gearbox was caused by a modern lube having additives that have been leaching the bronze/brass out of your gears, bearings, or metal seals.  Drain it and flush once or twice with diesel, then refill and flush again with mineral oil.  Once squeaky clean, fill and run with Gl-1 lube oil and you will be good to go for years to come. You can even run the machine for a few seconds with diesel to flush contaminants and gunk out of the gear train. 

2) The 'weight' of the oil is nearly useless as a means for determining what oil to use.  Lube oil and motor oil have entirely different number system ratings for viscosities and 'weights'. For example  90 'weight' transmission oil has about the same viscosity as 30'weight' motor oil. 

3) lube oils can and often are identified with five different rating systems -all with different designations.  ( there is a lube oil chart floating around the internet you can use to compare the various rating systems for oil, and how they correspond to each other.  

So... for your machine, the proper specification for your vintage machine is any non -hypoid gear oil rated as "GL-1"  on the bottle.   Gl-1 is straight mineral oil with no high performance additives. The key is to use oil with no automotive additives.  GL-1  was commonly used in manual transmissions in cars and various machinery gear boxes up through the early 1960's . Gl 2-5 all have increasing amounts of additives. 

In the Seattle area, GL-1 is hard to find now, but I did locate some at three suppliers : 

-Shell Dentrex 80w-90 GL-1 line oil,
- Tractor Supply carries a 'Ford Tractor all mineral oil GL-1', and 
- Napa Auto stores usually stock a couple of Gl- 1 quarts.  They also show  one gallon Gl-1 lube oil as a stock item.

Regards,
Glenn


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## 4GSR (Jan 24, 2017)

Izzy said:


> @Nogoingback I was kind of curious about the change gears aswell but I ended up getting the motorcycle chain lube, I read a few guys using it. I deffinetly plan to bring it to work and wash it out in the parts cleaner. I'm not sure if that's original to the machine or not..
> @4gsr ..............  With how similar it is to a manual transmission I was thinking of using Synchromesh or similar type fluid.......................!


It don't have to work as hard as in a auto tranny.  But it's your call.  Synchromesh would probably work too.


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## Izzy (Jan 24, 2017)

@Glenn Brooks thanks! I always enjoy reading your posts, you always seem to have just the right info. The shell stuff might be harder for me to find but the second 2 options should be easy to find for me
@4gsr thats a good point and I guess I didn't consider that, I'm gonna try some type of GL1 oil I don't want to end up with green fluid again!


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## Izzy (Jan 24, 2017)

So I found this during my searches odly enough it's also a GL1 oil lol what are the odds of that being in the gear box? It's getting flushed either way just thought it was a cool coincidence lol 
http://www.millersoils.co.uk/automotive/tds-automotive.asp?prodsegmentID=242&sector=Classics


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## francist (Jan 25, 2017)

With a distributor in Burlington, Ontario no less!

-frank


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## Izzy (Jan 25, 2017)

I didn't even notice that! Maybe I'll use that oil for the gear box then seems to fit the profile nicely lol


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## Glenn Brooks (Jan 25, 2017)

Izzy, thanks much for your kind words.  Maybe your green oil is the green stuff mentioned on the millersoils web site??  I'll bet it is, or very well could be.  Truthfully, I had a nagging doubt that hypoid oil would cause such a massive color change.  I guess, take a close look at your gears after you drain and flush the gear box.  If they are not pockmarked - show  no signs of tiny corrison holes, yellow metal 'wormholes' eating,  away the castings, then a good chance it's the original color of the oil!  You could do an oil analysis at some heavy equipment lab to be sure. 

Anyway, I don't think you can go wrong with any of these old straight mineral lube oils.  

Good luck with your rebuild!

Glenn


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## Izzy (Jan 26, 2017)

Ok so I've got everything covered now except the head stock what should I use in that? Keep in mind I live in Ontario so the lathe will see temps anywhere between -10°C and +30°C I've read that hydraulic oil can be used but I'm not sure what grade to go with?


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## 4GSR (Jan 26, 2017)

Izzy said:


> Ok so I've got everything covered now except the head stock what should I use in that? Keep in mind I live in Ontario so the lathe will see temps anywhere between -10°C and +30°C I've read that hydraulic oil can be used but I'm not sure what grade to go with?


Go with  ISO 32 or 46 hydraulic oil.  That's basically the same oil as Mobil Velocite brand oil.


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## Izzy (Jan 26, 2017)

Sounds good to me, my local farm supply carries Tellus s2 m32 soon I'll probably go with that.


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## 4GSR (Jan 26, 2017)

Go for it!  I wouldn't suggest anything heavier for cold weather use.


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## Izzy (Feb 7, 2017)

So I had a rather hard time trying to find a gl-1 oil around here so I got to thinking about what Glen was saying about the issue being the corrosiveness to yellow metals. Being a long time fan/user of royal purple products I searched to see if royal purple had a yellow metal safe oil. Sure enough they have a product called "max gear" and it states specially on thier website "It is non-corrosive to soft yellow metals (brass, bronze, copper, etc.) and synchronizer safe." Which is good enough for me! Just thought I'd share for anyone else looking for a yellow metal safe gear oil! 
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/max-gear/


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## willthedancer (Feb 7, 2017)

Just an FYI, most oils will fluoresce green when you put strong or high blue/UV light like LED. It does not denote Cu contamination


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## Glenn Brooks (Feb 9, 2017)

Another approach is 90 weight ( straight) mineral
Oil gear lube.   Gl1 Is basically straight mineral oil, as I understand it.


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## GarageGuy (Feb 10, 2017)

4gsr said:


> Go with  ISO 32 or 46 hydraulic oil.  That's basically the same oil as Mobil Velocite brand oil.



ISO 32 hydraulic oil is what the manufacturer specifies for my lathe.  It's basically 10 weight oil with no harmful additives.  Cheap, too.  I bought it at the local farm supply.

GG


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## Izzy (Feb 11, 2017)

I ended up getting a 5L jug of Tellus s2 m32 for the spindle, the oil is almost as clear as water! I've heard of alot of guys using motorcycle chain lube for the open change gears. Whats everyone else using?


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## Nogoingback (Feb 11, 2017)

Open gear grease is probably the best: they're thick and sticky so they don't run off.  They're formulated for open gears on machinery like rock crushers so, more than
adequate for our lathes.  I have a tube of Jet Lube OG-H which I bought from Grainger.


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## GK1918 (Feb 18, 2017)

Izzy you say vintage lathe?  you do know people of this day vintage is a two year old car.  Vintage to me is something older than me and I'm 70.  So ask my 100 yr old lathe, and it says oil what ever ya got. Open
change gears squirt 90-140 gear oil while its running - ways and everything else #30 or what ever I 
have.  Its only a machine, and who had a harder life than a Model T. They dumped everything from
from french fry oils to paraffin, butter oil, fish oils,  whatever  and they ran and ran. My model T, I
run Valvoline racing oil 20-50 lots of zink for flat tappets and Babbitt.  When in doubt just use any
hydraulic oil or ATF because its use is for high precision as in hydraulics.  Excuse me, but I never
got the two sliding steel or cast, what ever sliding surfaces needing special oils. Can even spit on
it and it will slide.  I wrote this long time ago on this forum;  only new vehicle I bought in my life
was a 1975 Ford F250  OK  it said If I do not use Ford 300 oil my warranty is dead?  LOGIC;  Ford
does not produce oil, they buy of vendors and put their name on it.  Use approved South Bend
oils thats crap they buy from the lowest oil bid.  So its like South Bend oil is run of the mill 
Mobil Atlantic or who knows.  don't believe this,  fine, my pre war machines work every day..
with off the shelf oils    . and they will run long after I am gone, I hope (My sons)


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## Reeltor (Feb 18, 2017)

There is a oil cross reference between "modern" oils and the S.S.UV@100 F (SayBolt) on page 3 of this shaper manual
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/resources/shaper-manual-mitts-merrill-g-e.3167/
This may help if you have a old manual that lists a saybolt viscosity to use.


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## Wreck™Wreck (Feb 18, 2017)

Oil, can't be beat.


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