# Newbie Questions



## Bamban (Sep 4, 2014)

Finally got the new to me Bridgeport Series 1 2 HP mill and a 12x36 lathe all moved in and wired up. Currently going through the operations, maintenance, and set up procedures. I've read and viewed a few videos and got some input from machinist friends on the how to operate and set up the machines. Learning this machines for someone with no machining background is like drinking from a fire hose. Glad I am retired I can stay in the garage all day.

One of the mill procedures I am about to go into is the tramming/sweeping the head/table with the indicator on a rod attached to the spindle. Unfortunately, I do not have the proper rod/indicator combination to properly do the procedure according to all the instructions and videos I gathered. The closest thing I can use is the case/ammo run out gauge kit from RCBS that I already have. I cam use the indicator and the rod combination, but the sweep radius is more like 2 1/2 inches, limited by the cross bar connecting the indicator to the rod that is attached to the spindle.

Now the questions.

What will I miss if I were to keep the indicator stationary and I will move the table around at any place from end to end, front to back? Will I accomplish the same thing with the table stationary and rotate the indicator? What is the end result difference between the two methods?

Right now the machine is set at the zero mark for both scales, tilt and nod.


What else do I need to know about these machines that is not clearly spelled out in any of the standard manuals?


Pictures of the machines.


----------



## chips&more (Sep 4, 2014)

*Re: Newbbie Questions*

Indicator fixed and moving the table around will only tell you table error and or translation problems. Sweeping with the head spindle will tell you tilt and nod error.


----------



## Bamban (Sep 4, 2014)

*Re: Newbbie Questions*



chips&more said:


> Indicator fixed and moving the table around will only tell you table error and or translation problems. Sweeping with the head spindle will tell you tilt and nod error.



What would be the minimum sweep radius considered to be the lower limit to be effective?


----------



## chips&more (Sep 4, 2014)

The larger your sweep radius the greater your resolution/sensitivity in seeing any discrepancy’s. You can trig/math out the possibilities. I do it with an arm that can sweep the outer edge width of the table. That way I get the best result I can. And a note on at least my BP and the “0” reference angle head marks that it has. Mine are off! So, I used some of that HVAC metal tape and covered up the original zero or dash mark and made a new relocated dash mark…Good Luck.


----------



## JimDawson (Sep 4, 2014)

I just use the rods from my standard mag base indicator.  Put the big rod in the drill chuck, center on the table, and slide the indicator out to the table edge.  I can sweep my 10 inch table to the edges.


----------



## chuckorlando (Sep 4, 2014)

Truth be told, I would think if you can sweep the distance your working in that would be all you need to work out the error you need. For example if your using a vise and the wor fits in the jaws the only error that matters right then is what you get over the work. If you need to be with n .001 and can get it to .001 over that vice, you would be good.

That being said, I do it like Jimdawson


----------



## Bamban (Sep 5, 2014)

Thank you all for all the responses. I will report back on the progress.


----------



## Bamban (Sep 5, 2014)

Well. I could not let the day/night go by and not do something about the mill. I got an Aluminum bar from a friend, the size is close enough for what I need to learn and bought a 3/8 Aluminum rod from Home Depot to construct the indicator holder.

Adjusted the nod first, then the tilt. All bolts are back to spec - 50 ft-lbs. Incrementally got to the spec, started at 25. Lessons learned; there is tremendous backlash in the adjusting bolts, and need to keep the bolts at some tension, just enough to adjust.

Here are the pictures showing the initial readings and where I end up. Did not use a .0005 indicator, but for my education tonight  the outcome is good enough.

Did I do it correctly?


----------



## chuckorlando (Sep 5, 2014)

Should have mentioned that you should keep one of the nuts/bolts good and snug when adjusting. It helps keep the backlash under control and makes tiny moves easier


----------



## gredpe3 (Sep 5, 2014)

Good job on the indicator holder.I'm gonna try to make one myself.Thanks for the inspiration.
Eddie


----------



## JimDawson (Sep 5, 2014)

Nice job on the indicator holder, looks good.  You are doing it just like I do.  The only thing I do different is turn the indicator 90* counterclockwise from your position, so you don't have to use a mirror in the rear.  I normally set the nod first, then do the tilt.

I would say if the result is what you want, then you did it correctly.


----------



## Bamban (Sep 5, 2014)

Jim,

Thank you for the tip on rotating the indicator.


----------



## Bamban (Sep 5, 2014)

Final validation of the work. Today, I ran the table back and forth and the knee up and down then went back to the same position. Locked the table and knee, AND rotated the indicator, Thank you, Jim. The pictures show it all.












Then I relaxed all the lock downs. Is the minimal shift significant for a newbie trying to learn how to use these machines?












One thing I found out from the 1/8 of a page written instructions in the manual is like telling a new shooter on how shoot standing - hold still, acquire your sight picture, sight alignment, and break the shot without disturbing it.

Now, I was told I need to square the Kurt vice to the head... more reading to do and more questions to ask.

I am drinking from a fire hose with all these new things I know nothing about, the lathe is another story to come.

The journey continues.


----------



## dave2176 (Sep 5, 2014)

I think it was Ray C that suggested using a large bearing race when you sweep the table. Would this be so you don't pick up any dings or other table imperfections in your measurements?

Dave


----------



## John Hasler (Sep 5, 2014)

dave2176 said:


> I think it was Ray C that suggested using a large bearing race when you sweep the table. Would this be so you don't pick up any dings or other table imperfections in your measurements?
> 
> Dave



Right.  It sits on the high spots defining the top plane of the table.  It also carries the indicator smoothly over the slots, and lets you sweep a circle larger than the width of your table.  I use an 8" disk out of an old disk drive but a bearing race may be better.


----------



## John Hasler (Sep 5, 2014)

dave2176 said:


> I think it was Ray C that suggested using a large bearing race when you sweep the table. Would this be so you don't pick up any dings or other table imperfections in your measurements?
> 
> Dave



Right.  It sits on the high spots defining the top plane of the table.  It also carries the indicator smoothly over the slots, and lets you sweep a circle larger than the width of your table.  I use an 8" disk out of an old disk drive but a bearing race may be better.


----------



## chuckorlando (Sep 5, 2014)

The way I would sweep the vise would be to stone it real fast, set it down and snug it eye ball square. Sweep across the top of the fixed jaw from one side to the other. If the vise and table are flat this should be good but if not then a shim will do. Then sweep the face of the back jaw from one end to the other. Tap the vice with the dead blow till you work out the variation and get 0 across the jaws





Bamban said:


> Final validation of the work. Today, I ran the table back and forth and the knee up and down then went back to the same position. Locked the table and knee, AND rotated the indicator, Thank you, Jim. The pictures show it all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Bamban (Sep 5, 2014)

Thank you all for the responses.

On the bearing race. A friend in the aircraft industry is sending me a landing gear race, he said he will send the largest one he can.  Based on the comments, this should be a useful tool. Will post pictures when I use it


----------



## Bamban (Sep 6, 2014)

chuckorlando said:


> The way I would sweep the vise would be to stone it real fast, set it down and snug it eye ball square. Sweep across the top of the fixed jaw from one side to the other. If the vise and table are flat this should be good but if not then a shim will do. Then sweep the face of the back jaw from one end to the other. Tap the vice with the dead blow till you work out the variation and get 0 across the jaws





Chuck,

Here is what I did:

First, checked the top of the back jaw from one end to the other, looks good.







I happen to buy a set of 12 inch parallels so I thought I would clamp one of them and indicate at a larger radius. Cleaned the inside of the vice thoroughly to be sure there are no chips or dirt. The first parallel registered some delta across the 12 inch length.







Tried the other one, it indicated larger variance from end to end.







Thinking the shelf these parallels were resting on might not be true, so I indicated inside the vice, looks good.







The last step was to indicate inside, clamping surface of the back jaw. It took me awhile to get it to run true. Keeping the nuts somewhat snug and nudged the vice with a dead blow hammer (as you suggested) finally got it trued. Upon completion, I carefully, incrementally, alternately tightened the T nut set up. Verified the torque afterwards, resting at 22 ft-lbs. I have not seen the torque spec on these nuts, if anyone has any data, please let me know.







Did I do the procedure correctly?


Now, what else do I need to do to this machine before I start using it?


I am vertically challenged, I have to tip toe to reach the drawbar, thinking about building a pallet type arrangement around the work area between the lathe and the mill. I am open for any suggestions.


----------



## chuckorlando (Sep 6, 2014)

Well the next step would be lube, stock in the vise, cutter in the mill and power on)


----------



## Mark in Indiana (Sep 6, 2014)

Guys,

I must say that this is the most informative read on truing up a mill.


----------



## JimDawson (Sep 6, 2014)

Looks like you did everything perfect, and with a lot more care than I normally use.  As far as the torque on the hold down bolts, I pull on my 12 inch Crescent wrench until it quits moving, but I am a bit heavy handed.


----------



## Bamban (Sep 6, 2014)

To all responders,

My sincerest appreciation for all the input. I will be posting more newbie questions in the months ahead, please be patient with me.

The journey continues.........


----------



## chuckorlando (Sep 6, 2014)

Every question ever asked was a newb question and the only way for it not to be new, is to get it done :thumbsup2:


----------



## Bamban (Sep 9, 2014)

*Re: Newbie Questions - Update*



dave2176 said:


> I think it was Ray C that suggested using a large bearing race when you sweep the table. Would this be so you don't pick up any dings or other table imperfections in your measurements?
> 
> Dave




Dave,

A good friend came through, I got an aircraft landing gear race heading my way. He sent me this photo to get appetite going. Now I need a project where I need to tilt or nod the head so I'll find an excuse to use this handy thing to get the machine squared away again. Need to make another indicator holder to sweep the radius of the bearing race.


----------



## zmotorsports (Sep 9, 2014)

Nice.  I am currently keeping my eyes open at work for a large bearing race to use as it seems like a good way to go.


----------



## PatMiles (Sep 11, 2014)

Bamban,
Here is a link to a YouTube video (Tom's Techniques) that shows the quickest way ever to square a mill vise. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdgSxoTmtx0
I used to dread squaring my vise but now doing so is a cake walk.
Best,
Pat


----------



## Mark in Indiana (Sep 11, 2014)

Tom's Techniques videos are very well done. I lost a lot of time watching them. Thanks for the lead.


----------

