# South Bend 9A, First Lathe and Restoration



## sbx (Feb 17, 2015)

Hey All,

I am proud to say that I've graduated from admirer to participant. I recently acquired a new to me South Bend 9A. It's an early 1950's era (serial 33538NAR) 9" Model A.

She seems in decent shape, but with a few quirks. I have never seen something more dirty than this in my life though. And I've done quite a bit of internet searching on restoring these things lately.

An interesting aspect is that its a catalog model CL 744 Z with a 3 1/2 foot bed. Apparently this model came from the factory with a V belt, and 16 speeds. Something I haven't seen much of in my searching.

The bad part, it doesn't have the original drive pulleys. Someone mounted a craftsman motor with homemade motor/pulley mount.

The ways are slightly worn (no factory scraping on the near half), but no major scores or damage.

My plan is to tear her down, clean her, and re-paint. Eventually I'd love to learn scraping and bring it into high precision.. But I think the best bet for a begginer is to use the thing for a while first. It is so dirty I am worried about running it at all without a complete teardown.

Enough, rambling. Here are some pics.


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## Warrenator (Feb 19, 2015)

Nice!  I have a complete drive assembly from  a 1940's era 9C if you need it, PM me.   Also gear covers.    Warren


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## Warrenator (Feb 19, 2015)

Oh, also without the stock countershaft assembly your lathe might spin a bit fast.   Make sure you feel the bearing caps for warmth and oil it well.


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## sbx (Feb 20, 2015)

Warrenator, - Thanks for the offer. 

Your comments bring up my next question. Since I am missing the countershaft assembly, I am thinking of mounting a new motor/VFD combo. Make a permanent mount and go straight to electronic variable speed. 

The gear cover is present, just removed for cleaning/painting in one of those pics.

I am currently (slowly) tearing into various parts to clean, and re-paint. I was able to find some Rustoleum Aklyd enamel in "Smoke Gray" (the good ole' oil based type) at a local hardware store, which in CA is almost impossible to find due to the new VOC laws. 

I also ordered a rebuild kit with replacement felts and a teardown/restoration guide from Ebay. So, once that arrives I can really start into the guts of the beast.

Other than extreme grime, there is almost no rust to speak of.. thanks to the impenetrable grime!


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## Warrenator (Feb 21, 2015)

The 3 phase motor and vfd combo should work, but for low lathe speeds you might need to drive the motor at 25% of rated speed which i think won't give you the smoothest running or most powerful situation.  Might be OK if you oversize the motor, say 1 hp Instead of the nominal 1/2.

I think if you have the full countershaft assembly, it takes a 1700 rpm motor and slows down the rpms with the big pulley to maybe 300 or so, or about 1/5.   (I am talking off the top of my head here, i am in Mexico for work and the lathe is in California so I cannot measure the ratio.)  The original assembly takes the electric motor pulses through a big spinning pulley that acts as a little bit of a flywheel as well as two rubber belts that have their own inertia and vibration absorbing qualities, so you end up with your main lathe shaft running pretty smooth.  

If you use a vfd and 3 phase motor driving the spindle directly, the electric motor will telegraph its' impulses into the spindle and you might end up with surface finish imperfections.  If your vfd can spin down to 20% of rated speed smoothly (lets say an 1800 rpm motor) that gives you 360 rpm, maybe a 3 to 1 pulley driving the spindle gives you 120, plus you have back gears available.  

That being said, the vfd is a great thing.  My lathe has a 3 phase motor with a vfd and i can supposedly spin it from 20% to 150% of the rated speed without problems.   I do not know how smooth that 20% would be.  I still use countershaft and shift belts for big speed ratio changes.  Maybe someone who has done a vfd with direct drive (no countershaft) can chime in.    Warren


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## sbx (Feb 21, 2015)

Thanks Warrentator. Makes sense. The more I think about it, I might want to get the countershaft assembly even if I change motors and go the VFD route. Your points are not falling on deaf ears. Plus it would make the lathe complete.

Check your PM's.


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## janvanruth (Feb 24, 2015)

i could be wrong but a 3 phase doesnt have any pulses

a vfd direct drive would give the useable spindle speeds to a ratio of about 1:5
vfd go down to about 0 Hz, but motors dont particularly like to run under 10Hz


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## sbx (Dec 28, 2015)

Since I have some time off for the Holiday, I thought I'd update this thread with some semi finished shots of the lathe restoration, as it sits now. I had meant to update it along the way, but realized that its very hard to take in progress shots covered in grease, grime and paint. But, here ya go.

Included in this fix up so far: Its been in use for about 6 months like this. Just updating the thread for those interested.
- Strip to bare metal and paint all components. Rustoleum Smoke Gray Enamel
- Some sanding and polishing of various parts (some unfortunately less shiny now)
- Slight stoning of way high spots.
- Bore and re-bush the Idler gear to compensate for wear
- Upgrade original motor to 3/4 HP 3P Leeson and Teco 1HP VFD
- New Control Panel with FWD/Rev, speed control, start, stop and (eventually EStop)
- Refurbish Lathe stand with new top, and paint
- Re-felt all oil reseviors

Surprisingly the entire machine was in good order except for a couple minor issues I am still working through. I'll try to update those as I fix or enhance them.

Here she is now.


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## DoogieB (Dec 28, 2015)

Wow, that's quite a difference!  Good job!


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## Surprman (Dec 29, 2015)

Nice job with the rebuild.  I noticed in a couple of the recent photos that the cross-slide looks a little stubby, like the end was cut off.  Is that a modification you made?  Usually they have more metal extending over the cross-slide ways.  I have a 9C I rebuilt.  It is a great little machine (I've actually done a few jobs for people such that  I have recouped almost half the purchase price of the lathe, while having fun at the same time!)


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## sbx (Dec 29, 2015)

Suprman - Its stock as far as I know. The prior owner(s) definitely did some funny things to this lathe like tapping holes in odd places in the headstock and removing the countershaft (which I was able to find and install a replacement). So, I wouldn't be surprised if its not the original, but it wasn't anything I modified. I have seen some other cross slide castings that are longer. But, long run I don't think it will matter, as I plan to replace that casting with the MLA T-Slot cross slide eventually. Honestly I never even considered that someone would have modified that part.. But what you say makes sense now that I think about it. It is annoying how much swarf gets in there. 

Some of the other projects I have planned or am in progress on: 

1. Finish the cleanup and paint of a lever 3c collet closer (Christmas gift)
2. Restore and paint my steady rest (other Christmas gift)
3. MLA T-Slot Cross Slide
4. Scrape flat compound and cross slide faces (intro scraping projects)
5. Make new Large Dial Direct read cross slide dial to replace crappy non stock one on there now.
6. Add replacement Acme screw for the cross feed, and install new cross feed nut. The current screw and nut are fairly worn. I have the acme section, but screwed up the dial retention screw threads..

I'll try to update this post with new additions as they are completed or something interesting enough to post happens.


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## WisJim (Jan 11, 2016)

I'm tracking down what sounds like a South Bend lathe like this, and I'm curious what you had to pay for the lathe itself, to give me an idea of what I should offer for the one I'm interested in.  Thanks!


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## sbx (Jan 13, 2016)

WisJim - I paid $700, and no tooling to speak of.. A little high maybe compared to some deals I've seen, and considering it was missing the horizontal drive assembly. I missed out on a deal for $350 for a similar lathe, but totally in pieces. Overall, I am ok with it. Other than some wear on the ways at the headstock, and one chip on an idler gear tooth, its in pretty solid condition. There is another one for sale locally for $600 right now if that is any help.

So, adding in a new motor, horizontal drive, VFD, wiring etc I am close to $1000, not counting any tooling.


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## sbx (Feb 16, 2016)

I finally had some time to update this thread. Got my Lever collet closer refinished, painted and installed. Love it! Collets Rock! Too bad 3C only goes to 1/2, but I have a full set in 32nds to 1/2.


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## FOMOGO (Feb 16, 2016)

You've really done a nice job on the rehab. Hard to beat oil based paint. Mike


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## Gunty99 (Mar 8, 2016)

Surprman said:


> Nice job with the rebuild.  I noticed in a couple of the recent photos that the cross-slide looks a little stubby, like the end was cut off.  Is that a modification you made?  Usually they have more metal extending over the cross-slide ways.



Maybe there used to be a mill head attached to rear of bed and the cross slide was trimmed for clearance?


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## sbx (Apr 1, 2016)

New Project Complete and operational. Just a baby project, but fun. MLA-8 Indicator and Saddle stop. With custom matching SB style locking bolt.


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## sbx (Apr 1, 2016)

While I have a chance to update the thread, which hopefully will be ongoing as I fix or improve my lathe, I thought I'd share one fix I've been working on. If you look at the original pics, I have a few problems. 

First and foremost to the usability of the lathe is the cross slide. Somehow, bubba PO had decided it was a good idea to replace the original large dial with an even larger one. So, they created some sort of delrin ring and pressed it over the original dial. AND decided to enlarge the cross slide bushing with an aluminum disk to match. Also, there was no way to set the dial to zero. It was locked and would not move. 

So, as I attempted to dissemble and assess. When I restored the lathe I could not get the cross feed screw off at all. So, I left it. Well, it would NOT come off. Now I had another problem. 




As you can see (along with the crappy dial improvements), I buggered up the threads using a puller. The just folded. 

So, I turned a replacement section out of 1144, with a .249" tang and bored out the original screw to .250" . Milled out a pocket to match the round key (.125"), pressed and used green loctite to secure it.






Prior to this fix, but  after swearing for several hours, I was able to get the rest of the assembly apart. And I realized I will have to remake most of everything to get it right. So, I jumped in. First off is the replacement cross slide bushing. 

First the old. Here you can see the aluminum disk (turned down to original diameter, I used the lathe like this while fixing the rest). The rest of the bushing is beat up, and I lost the index 0 mark.




Started roughing out the stock. 



Narrowing in on dimensions, and thread 3/4"-16




Sweet! It fits. ( I used thread wires to measure).




I then flipped it around, re-indicated it in. Now time to face, drill, ream to .375, and counterbore for thrust bearings. 



Here is where she sits now. I have more done, but nothing documented yet. Next to come. Made a replacement "CF" Bushing to hold in the bearing.

Next up.
1. Engrave 0 and center hash
2. Pin CF bushing to leadscrew.
3. Install replacement acme thread.

Let me know if you have any questions or comments. Thanks to all kind words so far.


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