# SB Catalog No. 84-BB



## sniggler (May 8, 2013)

Got this 1931 vintage 11" lathe.



I am setting it up in the basement as it is a bench top model what height bench should I build? 

I will fabricate the bench frame out of steel should the bench top be wood, or can the lathe bolt right to the frame?

Bob


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## sniggler (May 8, 2013)

Pictures of tooling and chucks that came with the lathe.


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## stevecmo (May 8, 2013)

Nice score!  It looks like it's in really good shape and well tooled.

Did you get the motor and counter shaft?


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## sniggler (May 8, 2013)

Yes a baldor motor motor set up for 110 with the bracketry.

bob


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## ScubaSteve (May 8, 2013)

Ya did good! Looks to be in good condition, and has the "no fluff" accessories (stuff that is useful, not the usual box o' drillbits!).

Those 11's are rare....if you find parts for it you may need, snap them up.


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## sniggler (May 8, 2013)

Thank steve, it did come with a bunch other stuff I took pics of today.









Bob


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## ScrapMetal (May 8, 2013)

sniggler said:


> Got this 1931 vintage 11" lathe.
> View attachment 53319
> 
> 
> ...



Woot!  Looks very nice and like it's my 11's older brother.  I have an 11" SB from '39




You can build your table any way you like, wood top, metal top, or bolt straight to the frame.  Remember though, the more mass the better and you will need to be able to level the lathe properly.

The 11"s are a bit of a p.i.t.a. but despite that I'm still very fond of mine.

-Ron


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## sniggler (May 9, 2013)

Thanks Ron. What makes the 11" a PITA?


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## woodtickgreg (May 9, 2013)

Nice find with lots of useful tooling too. Clean her up and oil everything and enjoy it.


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## sniggler (May 9, 2013)

The only part I find missing is the key for the worm drive on the apron the apron was removed before i got it and i don't see the key in the parts boxes. Does anyone know if its available?


Bob


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## ScrapMetal (May 9, 2013)

sniggler said:


> Thanks Ron. What makes the 11" a PITA?



Basically, just finding the correct parts.  I've been looking for a follower rest for over a year now and have completely given up on a taper attachment (I'll probably make them myself when I get the time.)  When you go to look for chuck backplates, drive plates, or faceplates  you'll find that nobody makes them for a 1 5/8" - 8 spindle nose.  The other somewhat limiting factor is the odd 7/8" through-hole of the spindle.  Are you interested in using collets?  Do you have the collet setup for the 11"?  I haven't seen anyone post yet that has it and there has been a lot of discussion, but no actual proof, of what kind of collets it even uses.  The best inference I've seen so far is that they used 2S collets but, like I said, there's been no confirmation of that.  The 2S is fairly rare, Hardinge still makes them but the price is enough to choke a guy - https://www.shophardinge.com/productGrid.aspx?catID=1551

With your longer bed (and my 4') the 7/8" though-hole should be less of an issue but it is still there.

That might sound like a lot of gripes but it really isn't as most of those issues can be worked around but can still be a p.i.t.a. at time.   :biggrin:

-Ron


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## sniggler (May 9, 2013)

No collet set up.


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## ScrapMetal (May 9, 2013)

sniggler said:


> No collet set up.



And I was SO hoping to get some measurements....  :shrugs:    One of these days one will surface with all the bells and whistles and the rest of us poor lost souls will get to have some measurements and questions answered. :thumbzup:

Your 11" looks like it is in pretty good shape.  It'll be nice to see you bring it back in to service.

-Ron


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## sniggler (May 10, 2013)

Thanks Ron, 

I'm very happy with it's condition and completeness. The only thing i have done so far is spray some wd-40 on it, my plan is just to degrease it and oil it up it has no rust on the gears at all and only light surface discoloration on the ways towards the head. I will leave the original patina as intact as possible. 

Going through my steel today to get material for the base/table. I found the missing _apron worm drive key_ on ebay. 

Bob


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## sniggler (May 10, 2013)

Ron,

Look on page 23 of this South Bend Manual for the 11" collet setup.  http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=3754 

I think the spindle sleeve is a number 2 morse taper and you could get collets to fit that directly.

Also see http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/3755.pdf page 21

bob


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## ScrapMetal (May 10, 2013)

Yep, the spindle taper is a #2MT.  The problem is that there is an adapter/collet holder insert that goes in there.  You don't put the collets straight in to the spindle.  A regular #2MT collet will fall in there and be lost.   Well, not lost but it would be so deep it would be of no use.  Here is the basic gear set up for the collets:




That "Closing Sleeve" is the thing that sits in the #2MT taper.


I think that this chart is the source for thinking that the 11" uses the 2S collet:




Even though the 11" isn't in the table it shows both the 10" and the 13" to be using a "2" collet.  In the text it references a "2-A" so I don't know why it is suggested the a "2S" was used unless they are basically the same collet.

Always looking for more information on the subject,

-Ron


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## sniggler (May 10, 2013)

Yes but doesn't the spindle sleeve (part number 205 on pg 2 of the repair parts manual) reduce the the spindle to take the number two morse taper. 
My spindle sleeve on left.


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## ScrapMetal (May 11, 2013)

Yes, I think the spindle sleeve is the same as the spindle taper but I don't believe that the sleeve has anything to do with collets. (BTW, I'm jealous.  Mine didn't come with the spindle sleeve.)

It is my understanding that the spindle sleeve is for use when you wish to have a head stock center along with a faceplate.  [See Fig. 117 on page 25]  The sleeve needs to be there to keep the center out where it can be useful else it would fall back in to the spindle.

Regards,

-Ron


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## sniggler (May 11, 2013)

Ron,

I think the closing sleeve replaces the the spindle sleeve when using collets, and that it is the spindle sleeve the reduces the spindle to accept a #2mt. The odds would seem to be heavily against us finding an original collet closer setup. 

Bob


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## ScrapMetal (May 11, 2013)

sniggler said:


> Ron,
> 
> I think the closing sleeve replaces the the spindle sleeve when using collets, and that it is the spindle sleeve the reduces the spindle to accept a #2mt. The odds would seem to be heavily against us finding an original collet closer setup.
> 
> Bob




My thoughts as well.  We know that they were made at one time and 11" SBs do keep showing up.  It's got to be just a matter of time, right?  :biggrin:

-Ron


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## sniggler (May 14, 2013)

Got a lathe table together yesterday and moved the 11" down the cellar steps.


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## sniggler (May 14, 2013)

Now running.


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## Ulma Doctor (May 14, 2013)

lookin good, Snig!!!


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## ScrapMetal (May 14, 2013)

sniggler said:


> Now running.
> 
> View attachment 53676
> View attachment 53675



Sweet!  How's it running?  Oh, and remember to check the oilers for the spindle bearings often.

-Ron


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## sniggler (May 15, 2013)

Thanks guys, 

Right now I'm just keeping it simple I have to learn how to use it! It is all oiled up the only thing we did was to take a few light cuts on a piece of 1/2 inch rod stock. Tubalcain has a video instructional lesson series for south bend lathe operations and I am thinking of getting it to ease the learning curve a little. 

We have another pulley shaft that will give some more reduction, just by eye it seems too fast in back gear also that would get the motor off the table. Going to setup adjusters on the feet of the table level up the table better and then do the final leveling with finger shims between the feet on the lathe and the table.

I said in and an earlier post that it was missing the apron worm key, I got one off ebay it require a fair amount of grinding and sanding to fit but that worked out and travel is smooth in clutch drive longitudinal and cross feed.

My wife and I are doing renovations on our new old house (before we move in) so since the kitchen is all ripped out. We were able to wrap a sling around a 6' steel beam setting the beam across the joists under the kitchen floor and dropping the eye of the sling through a slot i cut in the floor to hang a chain fall to pick the lathe. How can i tell the wife the beam has to stay on the kitchen floor without getting clobbered?

Bob


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## sniggler (May 15, 2013)

Added an extra reduction pulley turning very smoothly in back gear at =or- 34 rpm.


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## ScrapMetal (May 15, 2013)

sniggler said:


> How can i tell the wife the beam has to stay on the kitchen floor without getting clobbered?
> 
> Bob



Just cover it with one of those butcher block/"island" things that are in fashion now! :thumbzup:

-Ron


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## sniggler (May 30, 2013)

Ron,

My lathe has the same spindle bearing caps and oiler cups as yours, do your oiler cups have wicks in them and what is the general wick arangement for the spidle on our machines.I replaced the wicks under the bearing caps that go in the chanels on either side of the spindle and and the wick under the collar on the front of the spindle but spindle oil still runs through pretty fast.



Bob


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## ScrapMetal (May 31, 2013)

My oiler cups don't have wicks in them either and likewise, the oil runs through pretty quickly.  To my knowledge (which isn't saying much) this is the way these were made.  What I am planning on doing to alleviate chances of dry bearings is to add a couple of "drip oilers" to the bearing clamps.  I bought a smaller pair from McMaster - http://www.mcmaster.com/#oil-reservoirs/=mzhpw8 and will make an adapter to fit it to the bearings as I can't bring myself to drill them out and re-tap or I'll disassemble the oilers and modify them to fit.  The bearing caps are threaded a bit out of the modern "ordinary". 

If you come across a better solution I'd love to hear it.

-Ron


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## sniggler (May 31, 2013)

Thanks Ron,
Yeah i saw those oilers and was thinking just that, in searching around i did find reference to wick running across the spindle in the oil groove of the upper bearing cap but it wasn't a south bend reference and i don't see it in the parts manual also that didn't make sense to me. I am going to do some more searching to see if we are missing something. 

I had the my bearing caps off to shim the caps back to spec (as per south bend keeping your lathe in trim) as the front was at .017 and got a big break when found that someone had dislodged the old wick on one side of the jornal and clamped it back under in the bearing surface of the cap after taking that out i only had to remove .001 from each side off the front bearing to get to a dial indicated .0015. I was already with shim stock to do the job. The small jornal was at around .001 already. 

I anyone else is running one of these older top oil cup split box bearing spindles please chime in and enlighten us on wicking and oil consumption.

Bob


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## ScrapMetal (Jun 1, 2013)

I need to go through and re-shim the spindle clamps also.  Problem is that I need to make some shims first.  The guy who had the lathe before me apparently just left the caps loose for lack of shims to properly tighten it down.   I was considering making a die to cut them in my hydraulic press.  Just don't have the time to quite get to it yet. :banghead:

-Ron


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## sniggler (Jun 1, 2013)

I got shims for the job but as it turned out I didn't need them. I saw a youtube which helped me do my adjustment but if your bearing have no shims and you still have too much bearing clearance you have to come up with another plan. [video=youtube;K3c0iwFgORo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3c0iwFgORo[/video] 

Bob


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## ScrapMetal (Jun 1, 2013)

My bearings have no shims but you can't tighten down the caps without making the spindle immobile.  It's not that the bearings or spindle are worn out, it's just missing the shims that should be there.  I don't think it'll be too bad to get things straightened out once I get the shims made.

Thanks for the video.

-Ron


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 1, 2013)

My heavy 10 is a different set up for the oiling but the shims are the same. Shims are shims and do the same on either lathe, in my rebuild book it said the clearance should be between .001" and ,0015" I think. I set mine to .001" with a lift test and she spins freely by hand with the chuck on about 1 1/2 rotations. Any way scrapmetal, If you don't want to go through all the trouble of making a die to stamp shims, which isn't all that bad an idea if you have access to the tooling to do that, I made paper templates of the shims, glued them to some brass shim stock and stack cut them on a wood working scroll saw, worked like a charm, cheap, quick, and easy peasy. I think I showed how I did this in my heavy ten rebuild thread.


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## sniggler (Jun 1, 2013)

Sounds like your in luck then. 
Ron


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## ScrapMetal (Jun 2, 2013)

woodtickgreg said:


> My heavy 10 is a different set up for the oiling but the shims are the same. Shims are shims and do the same on either lathe, in my rebuild book it said the clearance should be between .001" and ,0015" I think. I set mine to .001" with a lift test and she spins freely by hand with the chuck on about 1 1/2 rotations. Any way scrapmetal, If you don't want to go through all the trouble of making a die to stamp shims, which isn't all that bad an idea if you have access to the tooling to do that, I made paper templates of the shims, glued them to some brass shim stock and stack cut them on a wood working scroll saw, worked like a charm, cheap, quick, and easy peasy. I think I showed how I did this in my heavy ten rebuild thread.




I'll go back through your re-build thread but just in case, did you have any issues with the edges of the shims and if so how'd you clean them up?

Thanks much,

-Ron


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 2, 2013)

ScrapMetal said:


> I'll go back through your re-build thread but just in case, did you have any issues with the edges of the shims and if so how'd you clean them up?
> 
> Thanks much,
> 
> -Ron


As far as cleaning up the edges on the thicker ones I used a tiny little file to clean up any burs, on the thinner ones I layed them flat on a piece of glass and scraped a razor blade across the edges. The edges where not all that bad to begin with, I tightly taped a stack of shims together with clear packing tape and with the thicker ones to the outside and cut them with a fine tooth scroll saw blade. They came out nice and worked great. The brass is soft and works easy and conforms to the cast iron of the lathe as well. I did not want to use steel shim stock for that reason. I'm not saying that stamped ones wouldn't work better or as well, it was just a solution that worked very well for me with what I had, and like you point out as long as you smooth the edges they worked great. There was another person who was supposed to make and sell these shims, stamped style, he just had to make the tooling. I waited and waited, and waited some more, I finally got tired of waiting and came up with this idea and knocked em out in a couple of hours including the install and dial indicated lift test. Worked for me.


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## ScrapMetal (Jun 2, 2013)

Yeah, I'll most likely get tired of waiting for myself to get it done to.  :biggrin:  Thanks for the tips on cleaning up the edges.  I may actually get it done in the near future. :thumbzup:

Thanks again,

-Ron


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## mariner3302 (Jul 13, 2016)

Anyone get closer to the collet question?


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