# 5" 5C collet chuck recommendation



## Bill Kahn (Jan 16, 2019)

I am a beginner weekend hobbyist.  Have been working to tolerances of like .005", but am not at .002".  I have a PM1030V lathe (and a PM25 mill).

I have just ordered a set of 5C collets from PM.  And want to order a collet chuck plain back for the lathe (I have the backing plate).

I see prices ranging from $130 ( https://www.amazon.com/iMeshbean-Co...id=1547686094&sr=8-5&keywords=5c+collet+chuck ) to $500+ ( https://www.travers.com/5c-collet-chuck-adapter-plates/p/80181/ ).  I imagine something can be so cheap at to have way too much TIR.  But also I don't need a Bison with .0004".

Can anyone suggest a specific brand/model number that is a a step above lousy?  I think .001" TIR would be fine for my needs.

Climbing the cost ladder...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BOSTAR-Pla...h=item418a752ec1:g:qdgAAOSwEqVcMgmS:rk:6:pf:0

https://www.amazon.com/LLDSIMEX-126...id=1547686094&sr=8-7&keywords=5c+collet+chuck

https://www.amazon.com/AccusizeTools-Collet-Chuck-Machine-0269-0010/dp/B00U320MZ8?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_2

I do know this matters as I got some super cheap drill chucks--which visually look fine, but have terrible run out.

Thanks.

-Bill


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## JimDawson (Jan 16, 2019)

When you get it mounted up on your backplate you should have 0 TIR runout with any of them.  That's the idea behind a plain back chuck.


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## pacifica (Jan 16, 2019)

Penn tool co. sells a toolmex 5c collet chuck for  $412.11 and a d1-4  back made by toolmex for $85.00. These are made in poland to a high quality.
don't think you'll  find a better price.


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## mksj (Jan 17, 2019)

I went through four 5C chucks to get to the one I have now. The first two were the generic Chinese direct mount D1-4's, both got returned because of significantly bad TIR (~0.007). I then got a a set-true type Chinese 5C chuck from LatheMaster (they no longer are available), these had better TIR (it was adjustable), so that was better. The back plate needed to be skimmed and part of the chuck body turned because the outer diameter was not concentrically turned with the 5 C collet mounting surfaces, it also took forever to wind in a collet. I ended up with the Bision (now Toolmex or TMX)  Set-Tru, which is a great 5C chuck and has a price to match.  Shar's had a fine adjustable (Set-Tru(e) style) 5C chuck (202-5300) which I would have recommended, but I no longer see any 5C chucks listed on their website. Maybe they had so many chucks returned they stopped carrying them, but I would call and ask. It is reasonably priced and you can fine adjust the alignment.

I do not recommend Amazon for these types of purchases, primarily because you often get what others returned for probably quality issues. Read the reviews for the Accusize Tools 5C chucks (see all reviews), reviews are split as to love it or hate it. Wish I could be more positive, but my first two 5C chucks were returned for significant QC issues. Bostar has a lot of positive reviews (like 100%), so maybe worth a try, they have an any time return policy if there is a defect.  Probably recommend going with a plain back 5C collet and turning a back plate. If you have a significant TIR issue you can always turn the register down a few thousandth and do the tap and tighten method to get it inline. I will make the assumption that hopefully the chuck body/back is concentric with the 5C collet mounting surfaces. The 5C collets also have a bit more runout then say an ER-40 system, which you may also consider. Still, I prefer the 5C for small stock and also very short stock which the ER system is less than ideal.
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/shars-5-er40-zero-set-fine-adjustment-collet-chuck.66421/
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/collet-chuck-for-pm1030v-lathe.74917/#post-628637

If you are looking for 5C collets, I would check out CDCO Machinery which has them at reasonable prices, I know a number of individuals that purchased there 1/64th increment sets and were satisfied with the quality, Shar's 5C coolet set may also be a consideration. Reviews of CDCO Machinery are mixed, basically they say they are just a distributor and do not check anything at the warehouse. I ordered an ER-40 D1-4 chuck from them once, and it had terrible runout so it was returned.  If going with an ER system, then it may be worth getting a good collet set from Teckniks.
http://www.cdcotools.com/

Unfortunately we are in an era were cheap is cheap, and QC is pretty nil at this product level. You would think that a lot of the profit margin would be eaten up by returns and shipping costs, but there are enough buyers to offset these costs.


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## JimDawson (Jan 17, 2019)

Maybe take a look at this thread, it is possible to get a cheap chuck correct.  https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/rant-5c-collets-chuck-d1-4-cam-lock.23838/


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## pstemari (Jan 19, 2019)

When I was looking around, PM had the Bison plain back 5c chucks at a very reasonable price. Give Matt a call and ask—the chucks weren't listed on his website when I was looking.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## NCjeeper (Jan 19, 2019)

I have the Bostar one but with a D1-4 back and I ordered it straight from CDCO. It has nearly zero run out. Pleasantly surprised.


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## projectnut (Jan 19, 2019)

Rather than buy a collet chuck why not make one? I built one like this several years ago.

http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA21.html

You can either buy just the plans, or the entire kit.  The kit has a set of basic castings that have to be machined to size.  It also includes prints and the necessary hardware.

The TIR on mine is .0002.  You can make it as accurate as your machine and skills will allow.  The reason I built this one was the fact that I wanted to use it on a Seneca Falls Star #20 lathe.  I wanted something that was relatively light and accurate.  The finished chuck weighs just 9 lbs.   I also needed something that would include the material to bake a back plate.  This particular lathe has a 1 7/16-12 threaded spindle.

It was a fun project and only took a few evenings to complete.


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## projectnut (Jan 20, 2019)

As an FYI this is a copy of the "Pat Loop" collet chuck.  Plans for this chuck were originally published in Volume 1 No. 3 - June 1988 of the Projects in Metal magazine.  
There is a thread by ozzie46 showing some pictures of his build of the original style.
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/diy-5-c-collet-chuck.8079/

Pat Loop's original was made from round mild steel bar stock.  The one from Metal Lathe's uses cast iron castings.


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## Splat (Feb 6, 2019)

Pacifica recommended Penn Tool for a good price. I don't know about their price for that collet chuck but I can say I've bought from Penn Tool many times, most times via walk-in. They're nice folks who've answered any and all my questions over the years. I highly recommend them.


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## Boris Ludwig (Feb 8, 2019)

I'm not familiar with that particular machine but have you thought about the possibility of using a collet adaptor for your spindle taper to accept 5C collets?  

You could make a hand wheel and tube to close the collets. In future you could even upgrade to a lever closer. 

Its just a thought..


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## CNCTOOLEXPRESS (Feb 9, 2019)

Bill Kahn said:


> I am a beginner weekend hobbyist.  Have been working to tolerances of like .005", but am not at .002".  I have a PM1030V lathe (and a PM25 mill).
> 
> I have just ordered a set of 5C collets from PM.  And want to order a collet chuck plain back for the lathe (I have the backing plate).
> 
> ...


If your lathe has a 1.5" spindle bore like the Shopmaster Turnado, then this style is very versatile and easy to use.





						MACHINE and TOOLS
					






					www.cnctoolexpress.com


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## Bill Kahn (Feb 17, 2019)

Bill Kahn said:


> I am a beginner weekend hobbyist.  Have been working to tolerances of like .005", but am not at .002".  I have a PM1030V lathe (and a PM25 mill).
> 
> I have just ordered a set of 5C collets from PM.  And want to order a collet chuck plain back for the lathe (I have the backing plate).
> 
> ...


Just to finish off my decision here, I ordered the Bostar above.  With a little bit of jiggling I got my backing plate to fit it pretty well (turned Dow to a few thou undersized, which allowed me to tap it a bit and get the run out to under .001–which is well below my typical precision),  I am enjoying using collets—the process works much faster compared to the constant zeroing needed for every remount in a chuck.  -Bill


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## Tired&Retired (Mar 2, 2021)

Well, hate to dredge up an old thread, but this seemed like the most appropriate place to post this.

I bought one of the BOSTAR 5C collet chucks for my lathe with the D1-4 interface.  I went with the BOSTAR because they were relatively inexpensive, and I figured any company that would put their name on a Chinese import would at least make sure that the merchandise wasn't besmirching their reputation due to lack of quality or by not matching the manufacturer advertised specs. Silly me.

The guy I have been conversing with when I found that the 0.0006 TIR was a fantasy, as I am getting more like 0.0065 TIR, has been good enough about it, and has offered to take back the chuck and the collets I bought from him without any hassles.  He said he even spoke to the manufacturer and is supposed to get some sort of test jig from them, albeit not for a few months. He said he does not test them, just imports them and sells them. So much for my theory on a "name brand" being better than a no-name Chinese import.  On the Ebay auction page for this item, he shows something like 1580 sales of this particular chuck, and has a 100% rating, so heck, I figured this was going to be a relatively safe bet of getting something decent. Again, silly me.  I wasn't expecting perfection, just decent would have been perfectly fine for me.

Anyway, I took a video of my checking runout off of most of the surfaces, and tried the three different mounting position options offered by the D1-4 camlocks, all to no avail.  If you look close, you can even see the wobble of the nose assembly itself. The inside surface of the nose for holding the collets was certainly no better.






The guy doesn't seem interested in me trying another one, so I am guessing he doesn't expect a replacement to do any better for me.  I've been asking around to other suppliers and even had one tell me flat out NOT to buy the chuck from him, as he prefers to only deal with professional machinists.  So I guess that his ad copy quoting a TIR of 0.0006 is just a pipe dream too, and the people buying such chucks need to fix them to bring them to that spec. So I guess "DIY to get 0.0006 TIR" would be a more accurate claim.

Ah well, only reason I wanted to buy this thing was to be able to use the 5C collets for square and hexagonal stock. I already have an ER40 collet setup for round stock, plus the regular 3 and 4 jaw chucks, so no big deal sending it all back, I guess.  Just another "good idea" that went south on me.

IMHO.


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## Splat (Mar 2, 2021)

That sucks but you're not the first I've heard that story from. Don't know what machine you have. You'd be better off buying pre-threaded tubing, make some spacer/shoulder rings to center the tube in your spindle, make a handle, and whatever collets you need. I found a cheap Hardinge 5C collet drawtube and make it work on my Grizzly G4003G. It just needed some spacer washers since it was a hair long and I made some spacers to center the tube in my spindle but it works fine.


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## JimDawson (Mar 2, 2021)

You might want to look at this thread








						RANT: 5C Collets Chuck, D1-4 Cam-Lock
					

I need a 5C collet chuck for an upcoming project so of course I went to Ebay to find something cheap.  OK, I know that I’m not going to get Hardinge quality, but I expected that the specifications would be reasonably close to the real world.  It’s my fault I guess, $260 was pretty cheap.  I’m...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## Larry$ (Mar 2, 2021)

I bought a set true type 5C chuck, D1-4, from PM 4 years ago. Very nicely made. It took me some time to carefully center the chuck using the 4 screws. but it runs very true now. My collets are also from PM and are quite good. My method of testing has some limitations since it only tests for runout near the collet. I used gage pins.


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## pacifica (Mar 3, 2021)

Tired&Retired said:


> Well, hate to dredge up an old thread, but this seemed like the most appropriate place to post this.
> 
> I bought one of the BOSTAR 5C collet chucks for my lathe with the D1-4 interface.  I went with the BOSTAR because they were relatively inexpensive, and I figured any company that would put their name on a Chinese import would at least make sure that the merchandise wasn't besmirching their reputation due to lack of quality or by not matching the manufacturer advertised specs. Silly me.
> 
> ...


I put a hexagon 5c holder(cost $30 for set ) in my 3 jaw chuck( which has about .0015" runout) and get about .003". https://www.ebay.com/itm/5C-COLLET-...561274?hash=item5b8a22d03a:g:4NMAAOSw-HlgOTG5 .


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## Tired&Retired (Mar 3, 2021)

I tried taking a closer look at the 5C chuck today, trying a feeler gauge between the chuck itself and the backplate.  Smallest feeler gauge I had was 0.0015" and that would not pass through the two faces. So it doesn't appear to be something simple like grit between the backplate and the chuck.  Just for giggles I took a look at the face junction between the spindle and the backplate of the chuck, and there I saw daylight. I could fit a 0.004" feeler gauge easily, but the 0.005" was a NO-GO.  I tried retightening the camlocks, and even removed the chuck and removed the camlock lugs on the backplate and raised and lowered them one turn, which just made the camlocks themselves not really lock up.

I took a look at the video I did again, and I was seeing just a hair under 0.001" at the edge of the backplate.  I dunno, would 0.001" runout at the backplate equate to 0.0065" at the nose of the chuck? Looking again at the video, the runout gets progressively worse as I check along the length of the chuck.   Is this the problem?   The chuck backplate is just not registering against the surface of the spindle face causing the excessive runout?


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## DavidR8 (Mar 3, 2021)

I recently bought and installed a Bostar 5C collet chuck on my South Bend 10K. It has a threaded spindle so not a direct comparison. Nonetheless, the outside of the chuck was definitely not concentric but with a lot of care on making the backplate I managed to get .0003" concentricity on the taper against an advertised TIR of .0006"
Something I did was to lightly lap the face of the chuck so that there were no 'bulges' around the tapped mounting holes. I wonder if there's something like that going on with your chuck?


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## pacifica (Mar 3, 2021)

Tired&Retired said:


> I tried taking a closer look at the 5C chuck today, trying a feeler gauge between the chuck itself and the backplate.  Smallest feeler gauge I had was 0.0015" and that would not pass through the two faces. So it doesn't appear to be something simple like grit between the backplate and the chuck.  Just for giggles I took a look at the face junction between the spindle and the backplate of the chuck, and there I saw daylight. I could fit a 0.004" feeler gauge easily, but the 0.005" was a NO-GO.  I tried retightening the camlocks, and even removed the chuck and removed the camlock lugs on the backplate and raised and lowered them one turn, which just made the camlocks themselves not really lock up.
> 
> I took a look at the video I did again, and I was seeing just a hair under 0.001" at the edge of the backplate.  I dunno, would 0.001" runout at the backplate equate to 0.0065" at the nose of the chuck? Looking again at the video, the runout gets progressively worse as I check along the length of the chuck.   Is this the problem?   The chuck backplate is just not registering against the surface of the spindle face causing the excessive runout?


Unless I misinterpreted your video-I was surprised to see more runout in the nose than on the outer rim. I have never had that happen to me-especially such a big difference.


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## Tired&Retired (Mar 3, 2021)

pacifica said:


> Unless I misinterpreted your video-I was surprised to see more runout in the nose than on the outer rim. I have never had that happen to me-especially such a big difference.


I don't know how I should have done it any differently, as that just seemed to be logical to me.  I just wanted to show the readings from the spindle face first, and then gradually work my way towards the nose.  I would guess the chuck being cocked at an angle in relation to the spindle face would produce that sort of effect.  Even in a nearly perfectly aligned chuck, I would expect a nearly perfectly straight and rigid work piece to have at least some slight increase in wobble the closer you get to the far end of the work compared to being right next to the chuck jaws. In the case of this chuck, the nose end is the runout that REALLY counts.

Well anyway, the seller is offering me a replacement of a unit with the baseplate semi-finished to machine for a better fit of the actual chuck.  So he is trying to work with me to resolve the problem and not just blowing me off.  I already can return the chuck for a full refund, so this is an OPTION B, if I want it.  At least Ebay is pretty good in that regard. So I just have to make up my mind what I want to do.


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## Larry$ (Mar 3, 2021)

Check with PM to see if they are still selling the Run-Tru 5C chuck.


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## Tired&Retired (Mar 5, 2021)

I didn't see any such chuck on PM's website.

Anyway, I dropped off the chuck at a local shipping depot store today, so it is on it's way back to the seller. When I asked the seller about some details on that plain back 5C chuck and a semi-finished backplate, he never bothered to respond to me about it.  Oh well.  I ordered another chuck from someone else, so I will see how that one turns out.  I still have the two 5C collet sets, that if the new chuck works out fine, I will keep, but if not, they go back to the original seller too when I return the second chuck.  I guess I can just keep on ordering and returning a new chuck till I get a decent one. As long as I can get free return shipping via Ebay, what the heck...


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