# PM-932M or PM-835S on the fence



## Skowinski (May 13, 2020)

Hello All,

For a long time I wanted to get a Bridgeport and restore/refurbish it.  But, retirement finally came, the dream shop arrived (1,100 sq. ft. with heating/AC, yeah!), and I'm setting up.  I have a LOT of motorcycle related projects to get to and am rethinking the old Bridgeport idea, having spent 6 months recently restoring a South Bend 9" lathe, it was a big project and ended up consuming way more $ than I originally thought.

Long story short, I'm now thinking to get a PM mill, a set up and go machine.  And, lately I am going back and forth between a higher end bench mill PM-932M and a lower end knee mill PM-835S.  The one thing I really want is a 3 axis DRO and if I outfit both with that option I'm looking at about $3,800 for the 932 with a stand, or about $5,000 for the 835.

I'm a hobby machinist in the true sense of the word, was around machine shops for years because of my work but am by no means an expert or professional, and will be making single one-off pieces or modifying existing parts as needed.

For those with experience with these machines what do you think?  I want something nice, don't want to cut too many corners, this is my shot at having what I want.  But, wondering first if I'm overshooting what I really need with both of these machines, especially the 835.  Thanks for any info or thoughts!


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## parshal (May 13, 2020)

I think the high end bench mill they have is the 833T or TV, made in Taiwan.  I recently got the TV and I have zero complaints.  I was originally looking at the 935TV but a few folks talked me into the 833.  You can find my thread once I received it here and my thread asking similar questions to your post here.  The second thread may help you in your decision.


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## wrmiller (May 13, 2020)

I've had several bench mills, and they did what I needed to do. But I knew that a knee mill would simplify many of the operations I do (mostly pistolsmithing), so I finally popped for a PM935 and am very glad I did. I don't need large machines, but I do want quality and accuracy and the PM Taiwan machines have met my needs.

Not recommending one or the other (machine types), just describing my experience. YMMV.


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## 7milesup (May 13, 2020)

I purchased the 833T a while ago.  Other than the cheapo HF mill I had, this is my first so I cannot compare to a knee type mill.  The reason I chose the 833T is because of the possibility of converting it to CNC down the road, which is certainly in my cross-hairs.  I don't know if a knee mill can be converted to CNC, but obviously a nice bench mill can.  Wish they had the 833TV as an option when I ordered mine.  Would make conversion easier.

The 835S was also at the top of my list, but because of the aforementioned CNC, I chose the 833T.   Not saying one is better than the other, but just my thought process.


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## davidpbest (May 13, 2020)

Unless you absolutely need the flexibility of head tilt/nod of the knee mill, I recommend you go with the 932.   I would much rather have the geared head of the 932 on a square column than the Bridgeport type J-head on a ram.   Read the attached, and while it is specifically about the alternative of 833 versus 935, the same comments apply to the 932 versus the 835.   I absolutely detest the J-head in comparison to the geared head I had on my RF45, and all that is fully discussed in the attached.


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## Crankit (May 13, 2020)

Thanks for sharing that file on the comparison David...the 833 is close to the top of my list

Cheers

Wayne


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## davidpbest (May 13, 2020)

Crankit said:


> Thanks for sharing that file on the comparison David...the 833 is close to the top of my list
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wayne


I wasn't suggesting the OP consider the 833, although that would be a good candidate as well, provided you get the geared head version.   I am not convinced the variable speed belt-driven 833TV has enough low speed torque to do a good job machining harder metals like steel.   The geared head unit certainly does.


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## davidpbest (May 13, 2020)

I just realized I posted the wrong version of that mill comparison document.   So I have deleted that old version and attached the updated one here.   It goes into more detail about the 833-TV drive system and the low speed torque reservations.


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## Skowinski (May 14, 2020)

Thanks so much for all the thoughts and information!  And thanks @davidpbest for the writeup, very helpful. 

One question I did think of - for the bench mills with a stand, functionally are they similar to the knee mills, meaning the stand isn't in the way is it?  Just looking at the pictures it looks like you might have to lean over to operate the X and Y cranks more than you would with a knee type mill where the table is held out away from the machine some.  Sorry if that's not clear or a dumb question, I have never used a bench type mill.


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## parshal (May 14, 2020)

The cranks come out over the stand.  They're right there.  No leaning over.


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## M.T. Pockets (May 20, 2020)

Functionally the x and y are the same. The z is different depending on the machine. Can you give more details about what kind of work you're planning on doing? Theres a lot of pros and  cons to each. The biggest con to bench mills IMO is head droop. 



davidpbest said:


> I wasn't suggesting the OP consider the 833, although that would be a good candidate as well, provided you get the geared head version.   I am not convinced the variable speed belt-driven 833TV has enough low speed torque to do a good job machining harder metals like steel.   The geared head unit certainly does.



While I won't argue the geared head has more torque, torque hasn't been an issue with my 833TV. I've drilled 3/4" holes in 1010 and some other mild steels and never stalled, but have had tools spin in the collet even with it torqued down. Of course it all depends on what you want to do but if drilling big holes in steel isn't going to happen often I think the TV option is the way to go.


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## davidpbest (May 20, 2020)

M.T. Pockets said:


> Functionally the x and y are the same. The z is different depending on the machine. Can you give more details about what kind of work you're planning on doing? Theres a lot of pros and  cons to each. The biggest con to bench mills IMO is head droop.
> 
> 
> 
> While I won't argue the geared head has more torque, torque hasn't been an issue with my 833TV. I've drilled 3/4" holes in 1010 and some other mild steels and never stalled, but have had tools spin in the collet even with it torqued down. Of course it all depends on what you want to do but if drilling big holes in steel isn't going to happen often I think the TV option is the way to go.


I'm anxious to see a real bake-off.   Driving that 833TV motor at 10Hz to get at the published 50 RPM can't be very torqueé.   Love to see it pipe tap 1/2" NPT: _*LINK.*_


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## parshal (May 20, 2020)

I've stalled my 833TV tapping aluminum at the slowest speed.  I've also broken 5 or 6 taps.  Both of those results are surprising because, most often, the tap slips in the chuck first.


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## M.T. Pockets (May 20, 2020)

David, that would probably not go well. However, I don't see myself needing to tap holes that size for my projects and if I do I can do it by hand for those rare events. I do however mill a lot of aluminum so the VT version definitely fits my needs better as I need the higher rippums a lot more than I need the torque.

Its all about what you need the machine to do and what fits best for your kind of work.


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## davidpbest (May 20, 2020)

Totally agree.  I see the 833TV as ideal for aluminum. And I don’t mean to dismiss it at all.  Quite the contrary - it looks to be a very nice setup for nonferrous materials, and light duty work with ferrous materials.  What I bristle at is this idea that a single belt-position mill with 3-phase motor on a VFD putting out 20hz and below can come close to it’s geared-head equivalent in low speed torque.  Because the 833TV is advertised as 50-3000 RPM, without much qualification, this could certainly disappoint someone expecting to do the kind of tough steel milling the geared-head twin can do.  That’s all I’m saying.  Both machines have their place, but the buyer should be aware of the advantages and limitations of both versions of the 833, which was the original intent of my fully vetted and published white paper.


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## Skowinski (May 21, 2020)

M.T. Pockets said:


> Functionally the x and y are the same. The z is different depending on the machine. Can you give more details about what kind of work you're planning on doing? Theres a lot of pros and  cons to each. The biggest con to bench mills IMO is head droop.
> 
> While I won't argue the geared head has more torque, torque hasn't been an issue with my 833TV. I've drilled 3/4" holes in 1010 and some other mild steels and never stalled, but have had tools spin in the collet even with it torqued down. Of course it all depends on what you want to do but if drilling big holes in steel isn't going to happen often I think the TV option is the way to go.



Thanks for the comments and education everyone.

I'll probably never need to drill or tap big holes in steel.  I think in general most all of my work will be on the lighter end of the spectrum, I won't need to hog off large amounts of material in a hurry, never will need to make multiple copies of a part.  FYI almost everything I'll be doing will be motorcycle related, making small modifications to existing parts, and making some parts (steel and aluminum) for old classic bikes, stuff you can't really easily find and buy now.

The more I think about it the more the larger knee type mills are likely unnecessary for my work, and a bench mill will be just fine.  So, at least I've gotten that far in the decision making process. 

edit: what is head droop?


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## wrmiller (May 21, 2020)

Head droop is gravity forcing the head on a bench/bed mill to tilt forward. When I started using larger bench mills, I counterweighted the heads (using actual iron weight plates) like you see on the large CNC bed mills. When properly done, this counters the weight of the head on the Z-axis screw and nut, and will help reduce head tilt/droop.

I also got in the habit of traming the spindle with the Z-axis locked. Then when cutting I always made sure I locked the head. (I had my Z-axis on the head, not the spindle). The only time I couldn't do this was plunge cutting/pocket milling, which was rare for me.


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## mksj (May 21, 2020)

Travel (X, Y, Z) and Z axis height (table top to nose) becomes pretty important as you start to work on larger parts, in particular when you have the vice height, the part and then try to tap a part. Also the Y travel is often a limiting dimension on many bench top mills. The PM-833 and PM-840 have travel dimensions that are close to what you would have with a full size knee. QMT has a nice comparison sheet of their benchtop mills so one can compare the different models. I agree with David as too trying to squeeze such a wide operating RPM with a single speed belt drive, so more geared to higher RPM work. It should be OK for most work other than low speed (under ~200 RPM) with big drills and cutters. As far as material removal, one can use a rougher for rapid metal removal.

Per what Bill just posted, ead droop or nod, is where the head at the spindle end may lean slightly backwards due to wear and play in the gibs. The heads can be quite heavy, and over time you can get a bit uneven wear in the gibs, if you need accurate work I would lock the head and use the spindle. On benchtop mills vertical alignment of the column is not adjustable, other than shimming the column, on a J head knee mill the nod (front to back) of the head is adjustable.


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## parshal (May 21, 2020)

As for tapping steel, I just tapped a 3/8-16 hole in an MT2 arbor at the slowest speed on my 833TV.  The spindle stopped once but, mostly, the tap spun in the chuck.  I can certainly see a tightly held tap would stop the spindle.  I've found reversing speed to clear chips helps immensely but the chuck unwinds and out comes the tap.  

I'm finding I power tap frequently and this tap stopping or slipping is quite annoying.  But, the ability to change speeds with a dial vs moving a belt is much more convenient.  It allows me to quickly find the sweet spot when fly cutting or using an end mill.


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## davidpbest (May 21, 2020)

parshal said:


> As for tapping steel, I just tapped a 3/8-16 hole in an MT2 arbor at the slowest speed on my 833TV.  The spindle stopped once but, mostly, the tap spun in the chuck.  I can certainly see a tightly held tap would stop the spindle.  I've found reversing speed to clear chips helps immensely but the chuck unwinds and out comes the tap.
> 
> I'm finding I power tap frequently and this tap stopping or slipping is quite annoying.  But, the ability to change speeds with a dial vs moving a belt is much more convenient.  It allows me to quickly find the sweet spot when fly cutting or using an end mill.


I use a Keyed chuck for tapping.   That way you can get more grip on the tap and it doesn't loosen when you run in reverse.   The disadvantage is that the risk of breaking a tap goes way up, especially for 1/4 or M6 and below diameters.   With the TV at low RPM, the motor is likely to stall out before breaking a 3/8" or M8 or larger tap.


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## parshal (May 21, 2020)

I need a better keyed chuck.  I initially used it but I got as much slippage as I do with my Llambrich non-keyed.  I've broken far too many small taps with the Llambrich.  I think I need a hands-on lesson from a pro.  LOL


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## davidpbest (May 21, 2020)

The best keyed chucks today (other than the Llambrich Hexa) are Vertex from Taiwan IMO.    I’ve tried all lots of brands including current production Jacobs, Accupro, regular Llambrich, etc.


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## wrmiller (May 21, 2020)

mksj said:


> Travel (X, Y, Z) and Z axis height (table top to nose) becomes pretty important as you start to work on larger parts, in particular when you have the vice height, the part and then try to tap a part. Also the Y travel is often a limiting dimension on many bench top mills. The PM-833 and PM-840 have travel dimensions that are close to what you would have with a full size knee. QMT has a nice comparison sheet of their benchtop mills so one can compare the different models. I agree with David as too trying to squeeze such a wide operating RPM with a single speed belt drive, so more geared to higher RPM work. It should be OK for most work other than low speed (under ~200 RPM) with big drills and cutters. As far as material removal, one can use a rougher for rapid metal removal.
> 
> Per what Bill just posted, ead droop or nod, is where the head at the spindle end may lean slightly backwards due to wear and play in the gibs. The heads can be quite heavy, and over time you can get a bit uneven wear in the gibs, if you need accurate work I would lock the head and use the spindle. On benchtop mills vertical alignment of the column is not adjustable, other than shimming the column, on a J head knee mill the nod (front to back) of the head is adjustable.



This is why I bought my PM935. Not because it was more rigid than my CO 9x40 (it isn't), but because I do operations where a tilting/nodding head is more useful than being able to drill large holes in boiler plate. /s 

As many here know, I work on small stuff and seldom use anything larger than a 3/8" or 1/2" end mill. I think I use 1/4" end mills the most. I do have to make holes in 4140 that are almost .7" in diameter, but I drill to between .4 and .5" and bore the remaining as I need accurate holes as well as a bunch of sizes they don't make drill bits for. I actually don't think I've ever run my mill in low range come to think of it. I have no need for it.

I also don't power tap, as I prefer to feel the tap cutting, and I do a lot of tapping of 32 and 40 tpi which if power tapping I'm just asking for a bunch of broken taps.

If the OP doesn't need to drill big honking holes, then he might be better off with a high(er) speed spindle and no gears in the head. I ripped out the gears in the head of my CO within the first week and replaced them with a two-step belt drive and higher class bearings. With the VFD I could get about 6k spindle rpm which was great when working with little 1/8" endmills.


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## davidpbest (May 21, 2020)

We've probably beat this to death.   Each machine has it's strong and weak points.   And each of us have our preferred methods of work.   While Bill finds the Tilt & Nod capability of his PM935 fits his work, I would trade Tilt & Nod any day for more rigidity since I tilt or angle the part so I don't have to re-tram the head all the time.   And I would trade the belt drive for geared head any day - in fact I looked very closely at adapting an RF45 head in place of the J-head on my PM935.   And this torque topic is not just about drilling "big honking holes" either.  To each his own.


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## Skowinski (May 25, 2020)

Thanks again for all the help everyone.  I've decided I don't need a larger knee type mill, and really the 932 may be a bit of overkill for me.  I've narrowed it down to the PM30MV and the PM932M now.  It looks like the 30 doesn't have power downfeed and the 932 doesn't come with the powered x-axis drive (or, I'm not seeing it on the website at least...).  I like the idea of having a variable speed control and x-axis drive on the 30, and not sure I'll ever need the power downfeed on the 932.  

Leaning towards the 30 at the moment, it's probably all the machine I'll ever need.  I'll wake up one day soon with a decision I'm sure.


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## davidcarmichael (May 25, 2020)

Skowinski said:


> Thanks again for all the help everyone.  I've decided I don't need a larger knee type mill, and really the 932 may be a bit of overkill for me.  I've narrowed it down to the PM30MV and the PM932M now.  It looks like the 30 doesn't have power downfeed and the 932 doesn't come with the powered x-axis drive (or, I'm not seeing it on the website at least...).  I like the idea of having a variable speed control and x-axis drive on the 30, and not sure I'll ever need the power downfeed on the 932.
> 
> Leaning towards the 30 at the moment, it's probably all the machine I'll ever need.  I'll wake up one day soon with a decision I'm sure.


I am SO glad I chose the opposite from you. I bought the 835S and swapped the motor for 3-phase and a VFD. It's a great machine with all the capacity and rigidity I need. When your "rigid" machine is out of tram and needs nodding, what do you do? 
Of course I had a crappy HF machine (which is particularly bad) but I added a whole lot of stiffening and adjusting hardware to provide good tramming capabilities.


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## 9t8z28 (May 29, 2020)

i just got a PM-932M-PDF w/3 axis DRO.  Yes it is available with X axis Power.  I wish I could give you more info about the machine but I haven’t fired it up yet.   But, I can honestly tell you that if you got a PM 932 you would most certainly want the power down feed.  I played around with raising and lowering the head and I can tell you it was a lot of work.  Being a machinist as a profession I can tell you that I would rather have a geared head mill rather than a variable speed bench mill.  The geared head is so much more versatile for a variety of materials.  Variable speed may be great in aluminum but once you try milling Steel you’ll wish you had more power and more rigidity.  Just my opinion tho.  


Skowinski said:


> Thanks again for all the help everyone.  I've decided I don't need a larger knee type mill, and really the 932 may be a bit of overkill for me.  I've narrowed it down to the PM30MV and the PM932M now.  It looks like the 30 doesn't have power downfeed and the 932 doesn't come with the powered x-axis drive (or, I'm not seeing it on the website at least...).  I like the idea of having a variable speed control and x-axis drive on the 30, and not sure I'll ever need the power downfeed on the 932.
> 
> Leaning towards the 30 at the moment, it's probably all the machine I'll ever need.  I'll wake up one day soon with a decision I'm sure.


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## ats1911 (May 30, 2020)

I have the PM932M-PDF w/factory DRO, about a year now. Unless you get the basic model it comes with both power X and Z (head lift). That’s not the same as PDF, which drives the quill, primarily for boring operations. I’ve been pleased with mine.

If you expand the description on the website it will show the options.


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## Skowinski (May 31, 2020)

I appreciate the comments and ideas, thanks!  

I did notice the 932 has X-axis power feed, in fact confirmed with Matt what I read in the detailed description - all but the 932 Basic come with the X power feed, which is a plus.

The more I read the more I think I'd rather have a geared head machine.

Still haven't woken up one day with a decision, LOL...


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## CrossSlide (Jun 1, 2020)

Skowinski said:


> Still haven't woken up one day with a decision, LOL...



I did, my 932M arrives tomorrow.


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## 9t8z28 (Jun 1, 2020)

The best part about the 932 is it fits in my basement with 78.5” to the bottom of the floor joists.  With the head at max height the additional 3” of travel fits in between the joists


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## Skowinski (Jun 1, 2020)

Interested to hear/read more about the 932... still think it might be more mill than I need, but probably better to go a bit overboard than to end up with something undersized and underpowered.

I've been all over the place since I decided to get a bench style mill.  I've looked at and considered just about every PM model except the 25 now, sheesh.


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## wrmiller (Jun 1, 2020)

If you're worried about not having enough mill, just get the PM940 and be done with it.


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## mksj (Jun 2, 2020)

I agree with Bill, look at either the PM940 or PM833T.  One of the major limitation with many benchtop mills is the Y travel, add a DRO with a cover and you loose another inch. Add a 6" vise and you may loose a bit more because it hangs over the back. Been there with my last benchtop mill that had 7.5" of Y travel. The PM932 has 8", PM940 is 12", PM833 is 11". It makes a big difference. Next up look at the Z distance, as that gets eaten up pretty quickly. I use a full size knee and I almost bottom out my knee trying to manually tap holes. If you are just doing small stuff then you can get by with less, but you never have enough Y travel. Knees are nice because you can adjust the head in the Y axis. PM833 is nice if you are looking for a bit better fit/finish, but if the budget allows I would recommend a power feed on the Z and X axis.


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## parshal (Jun 2, 2020)

I agree completely Mark.  You can never have enough Y travel!

So far on the 833, I've not run out of Z travel.  I've drilled some tall items and still had room to spare.  That wasn't the case at all on my smaller mill I had before.  Z was the first thing I ran out of.


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## wrmiller (Jun 2, 2020)

PM didn't have their PM940 when I bought my CO 9x40. Which is too bad, as I suspect Matt's 940 would have been a much higher quality machine. I spent a year tweaking/tuning/modifying my CO to get it where I wanted it. And it was a beast of a mill after all the tweaking.

Noticeably more rigid than my PM935, and could seriously hog metal, especially with corn cob mills (roughers). But, other than just testing, I've never needed that kind of cutting power. I want good Y and Z travel, a head that tilts and nods, and a accurate/quality machine.


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## Skowinski (Jun 2, 2020)

Thanks for the comments, but LOL you guys aren't helping me stick with the idea of a bench mill, and not a monstrous one like the 940.  

Maybe I'm fooling myself, but pretty sure I'll never need to hog off lots of metal in big passes or drill huge holes in stainless.  I probably don't have the space for anything bigger than a 932, which I'm leaning towards, at least today.   

I'm just gonna have to get up one fine morning, get on the PM website, and order something.  I'm sure I'll be fine no matter what.


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## parshal (Jun 2, 2020)

Skowinski said:


> Maybe I'm fooling myself, but pretty sure I'll never need to hog off lots of metal in big passes or drill huge holes in stainless.  I probably don't have the space for anything bigger than a 932, which I'm leaning towards, at least today.



That's why I went with the variable.


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## 9t8z28 (Jun 2, 2020)

Skowinski, are you limited on height?  Where will you be putting the mill?  Do you have 220V 1 or 3 phase power?


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## wrmiller (Jun 2, 2020)

Skowinski said:


> Thanks for the comments, but LOL you guys aren't helping me stick with the idea of a bench mill, and not a monstrous one like the 940.
> 
> Maybe I'm fooling myself, but pretty sure I'll never need to hog off lots of metal in big passes or drill huge holes in stainless.  I probably don't have the space for anything bigger than a 932, which I'm leaning towards, at least today.
> 
> I'm just gonna have to get up one fine morning, get on the PM website, and order something.  I'm sure I'll be fine no matter what.



I'm an outlier on the site here, as I have never believed in the 'bigger is better' mantra of some. I work on small stuff, and if I could afford it I'd have a Sharp 8x18 or whatever it is Hardinge HL-V copy. The electronic threading/feeding on that thing just make me drool... 

And if I didn't have the room for my PM935 I'd pop for the PM833TV for the extra Y-axis travel, the quality, and the accuracy.

But again, I'm an outlier.


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## Skowinski (Jun 2, 2020)

9t8z28 said:


> Skowinski, are you limited on height?  Where will you be putting the mill?  Do you have 220V 1 or 3 phase power?



Not limited on height, 9 ft. ceiling in the shop.  It's the overall footprint of the machine I'm looking at.

I'm trying to fit a lot in this 1100 sq. ft. space.  There are 8 motorcycles, 2 motorcycle lifts, 2 eight ft. work benches, a 10x10 ft. "moto lounge" (couch, TV, first aid kit - I mean beer refrigerator), 2 lathes, small welding table, blasting cabinet, parts washer, several tool chests with top boxes... that's probably an incomplete list.  It seemed like a really big space when I designed it during the house build but now I'm thinking I should have made it 1500 sq. ft.  Ok, I'm out of control here LOL.  

Here's a photo of the wall it's going on, right in the middle there.  That tape measure is the x-axis full travel distance for the 932.  A welding table will fit on the left, I think a small one.

I do have a 220V single phase 50 amp circuit there.


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## 9t8z28 (Jun 4, 2020)

Swowinski nice shop.  Looks like you got plenty of room there for a big machine.
whats that lathe in the pic?


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## 9t8z28 (Jun 4, 2020)

This is why I went for  geared head mill.  Having the torque and rigidity to use a flycutter, bigger than 3/8” end mills, and drill big holes.  I just flycut and then spotted and drilled this 13/16” hole and the machine didnt even break a sweat.  When I got into machining I didn’t think I would ever need to make/machine anything big except for the rare occasion and I figured when I did I could work around it.  That was true in many cases but it took a lot more effort to get there.  This is where the bigger machine stands out.  go with at least the 932.  You got more than enough space.  If you can wait, hold out for the 940.


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## Skowinski (Jun 5, 2020)

9t8z28 said:


> Swowinski nice shop.  Looks like you got plenty of room there for a big machine.
> whats that lathe in the pic?



Thanks, the lathe is a 1950-something South Bend 9A cabinet model.  I posted some stuff about the rebuild here:









						South Bend 9" Cabinet Model Rebuild
					

Way back in late July I looked at a SB9 and asked a bunch of questions here.  Thanks to everyone who helped me out.  I ended up buying it and now that it's fully rebuilt and function thought I'd post up a bit of the history of the project.  I spent about 6 months working an hour here or there in...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




Woke up this morning and had a PM mill and accessories picked out, mouse pointer hovering over the "Add To Cart" button... and backed away.  LOL, at least I'm getting closer!


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## wrmiller (Jun 5, 2020)

Last comment: You are the one who will be using the machine, so get what you want. Not what others tell you should want or need. Because once the money is spent, the experts here who are telling you what to buy will leave, go on about their lives, and completely forget about you and your machine choice. It happens all the time.


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## d-haywood0921 (Jun 12, 2020)

Skowinski said:


> Interested to hear/read more about the 932... still think it might be more mill than I need, but probably better to go a bit overboard than to end up with something undersized and underpowered.
> 
> I've been all over the place since I decided to get a bench style mill.  I've looked at and considered just about every PM model except the 25 now, sheesh.


I just received a PM932 and I'm just cleaning it up.  I have not used it to cut anything yet but I have checked all functions to see if they work.  I have never owned a mill before but I bought a PM 1030 lathe and have been very pleased with it so far.  I have not been as happy with the PM932.  My biggest complaints so far are the quality of the castings the base drip tray is full of Bondo.  During the process of installing the mill on the base, I used a pry bar to move the two parts together.  The edges of the drip trip now have numerous places where chunks are broken off and/or gouges into the tray itself.  When I was looking at the bed I saw both ends have some black waxy substance in the pocket area on each end.  On further inspection, I found Bondo under the waxy substance filling holes and gouges in the milled surface.  Needless to say, I'm not pleased with what I'm seeing.  I don't know if this is normal because as I said this is my first mill.  I'm hoping the operations of the machine will be better than the quality of the finish.


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## wrmiller (Jun 12, 2020)

You bought a Chinese machine. It should be functional, but it likely won't be pretty. I wasn't worried about pretty, but I wanted better quality castings, machining, and accuracy than I'd get with the Chinese machines (I've owned a few...) which is why I spent the extra money for the Taiwan machines. But not everyone worries about that.


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## d-haywood0921 (Jun 13, 2020)

Unfortunately for me, I didn't know/realize there was such a difference between Chinese and Taiwanese machines. Based on your apparent knowledge of these machines is there anything I need to do with these pits in the castings before can you the machine?  I am especially concerned about the spill tray with the holes in the Bondo through the paint when and if I use coolant and oil and grease even if I don't.  
Thanks for your help.


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## Skowinski (Jun 13, 2020)

d-haywood0921 said:


> Unfortunately for me, I didn't know/realize there was such a difference between Chinese and Taiwanese machines. Based on your apparent knowledge of these machines is there anything I need to do with these pits in the castings before can you the machine?  I am especially concerned about the spill tray with the holes in the Bondo through the paint when and if I use coolant and oil and grease even if I don't.
> Thanks for your help.



Sorry to hear you've got problems with your machine.  And, thanks for posting, it's information like this I need to help with a decision.


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## wrmiller (Jun 13, 2020)

d-haywood0921 said:


> Unfortunately for me, I didn't know/realize there was such a difference between Chinese and Taiwanese machines. Based on your apparent knowledge of these machines is there anything I need to do with these pits in the castings before can you the machine?  I am especially concerned about the spill tray with the holes in the Bondo through the paint when and if I use coolant and oil and grease even if I don't.
> Thanks for your help.



Personally, I'd re-paint any exposed bondo with a oil-resistant paint to help protect it when I started using the machine. Voids in the ways themselves are just pockets for extra oil IMO. 

I'm not sure if this is the 'correct' way of doing things, but it is what I'd do.


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## 9t8z28 (Jun 13, 2020)

whats machine has pits in the casting?  


d-haywood0921 said:


> Unfortunately for me, I didn't know/realize there was such a difference between Chinese and Taiwanese machines. Based on your apparent knowledge of these machines is there anything I need to do with these pits in the castings before can you the machine?  I am especially concerned about the spill tray with the holes in the Bondo through the paint when and if I use coolant and oil and grease even if I don't.
> Thanks for your help.


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## Chipper5783 (Jun 13, 2020)

Haywood, your PM932 will be fine - at least as far as there being bondo in non-wear areas.  The vast majority of manufacturers use some sort of a filler to improve the casting appearance.  Example: https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/how-colchester-used-to-make-em.83592/

A bottom end Chinese machine may have all sorts of other problems.  The Tiawan vs China vs old iron etc is a very common theme here on HM (if you've been reading this web site for even a month, it would come up numerous times).  Clean, lubricate your machine, look it over well, change out bolts/screws as need be - it will be fine.  Use it.


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