# Chicago Dreis&Krump Box&Pan brake rebuild



## Firestopper

I recently purchased this unit sight unseen from the City of Gilbert AZ. I went through Public Auctions for the bid process and after a little bid war with what appeared to be a pawn shop (based on the bidders handle) I was high bid at $1586.xx after taxes and processing fee. There was four photos (poor quality) along with the auction so kinda limited on my end. This model is BPO 614-6 with a Serial No. 316138. I found out from Dreis&Krump that the machine was sold to the USAF back in 1977. Its a 6ft (73") unit with a max bending capacity of 14 gauge mild steel across the entire 73". I doubt I will ever need to build a box that long so I could be able to fold thicker narrower sections including aluminum. Now for the risks on buying a brake sight unseen: Many knuckleheads will bend/brake items such as round bar and thick flat strap using cheaters for leverage. This poor practice can result in a "sprung" condition ruining a brake, or damaging Nose bars and hardened bottom bars as well as bending bars. This model is a BPO, "O"meaning optional bolt on hardened bars. Thats a good thing considering the other BP models have welded bars. The bottom bar has the ability to be flipped (like shear blades) to expose a virgin side. All the dings on worn bars transfer to the bends on softer material such as aluminum once clamped. The same goes for damaged Nose bars.The Nose bars can be reworked on a mill (I'm hoping) and the finger extensions can be made from 3/4" thick CR flat bar on a mill and vary in different widths (3",4",5"and 6") determined by the width of the Nose bar. These can also be "sprung" when abused. At first I was under the impression I was missing one finger, but after receiving literature from Dreis, I was pleased to find the machines complete.
I made the 130+ mile drive after shift to pick up the unit only to find the forklift operator forked it from the upper clamp to remove the machine from inside storage. This is not advisable and could damage the unit. I had loaded any rigging equipment I thought might be need to load the machine onto a 14K dump trailer I was pulling (little tall).
After removing all the fingers to lighten/balance the pick, I rigged it for picking and that went smooth. Secured the load for my 130+ mile drive home. I used every strap I keep in the rig.



I got home around 2:30 pm and backed in the trailer for the night. I was too tired to unload the unit as I had worked a 24 hour shift that kept us up pretty much all night at explosion/fire that required 4,000 GPM and fifty firefighters. I had it made compared to the guys on the ground handling 2.5" hand lines. It was a defensive fire and we had exposures to protect. I was up 110' operating a Master stream from bucket ladder truck with onboard air (no SCBA required) plugged into my face mask . I was pushing 800 GPM from the toggle switch controlling the nozzle so a cake walk compare to the young bucks on the ground. The explosion took place at a Jajoba processing plant that operated 24/7. http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/36802022/5-hospitalized-after-building-explosion-fire. We did have a substantial amount of transmission lines to avoid as there was a power substation in close proximity. I could feel/hear the energy coming off those lines..Creepy feeling. Perhaps all in my head, who knows.
Anyway, back to the brake,
Unloading the machine from the bottom:  I had place some 4"cribbing under the brake running perpendicular to the trailer stringer running parallel to the heavy load at the time of loading. I also didn't want the machine to slide on the metal deck incase of emergency braking. This proved to be very helpful when I unloaded alone. I was able to use 8' fork extensions made some years ago from 6" channel. I was able to approach from the end but needed to drag the unit closer to the end of trailer. This thing is top heavy and off CG as the top clamp section was dislodge when the guy forked it from the bottom portion of the top clamp. The unit wanted to rotate counter clockwise co large C-clamps secured the lower stand to the forks as well as a rigging chain to assist in pulling the machine closer to the trailers a$$ end.

Lifting and gently pulling machine to trailers edge allowing the 8' forks to capture the front stand.


Got it on the ground without drama.


Next up was to reseat the upper clamp back onto the adjusting saddles.
I cribbed the unit leaving the fork extensions in place, then got a shorter 2X4 to use as a spacer under the upper clamp and gently raised the upper clamp to clear the saddle. I then raised the clamp arms using the cam action to line up the saddles and lowered the clamp into position. This went very easy and smooth.

Here you can see the misalignment of the adjuster. Luckily the connecting threaded rod is robust at 2" and supported the knucklehead poor choice of method to move out the machine. Before I reseated, I took the adjuster apart to clean the hard dried grease making it hard to turn. This was put back dry for now and moves freely.


Short section of 2x4 to clear the finger extension mounts under the upper clamp.


Raised it up just enough to rotate the cam lever to align the mouse hole over the L/R adjuster.
Once aligned, I gently lowered the upper clam to its home location. You can see the large clamp 
adjustment threaded rod that connects the upper clamp to the lower portion of the table. The robust
design saved the brake from a total failed forklift pick. The sides are 1" thick plates as is the top end plates.


Here you can see the machined bar that supports the finger extensions (behind the 2x4). The
2x4 prevented fork contact during lifting of top clamp. Also notice the table and bending leaf hardened 
Bar. The machine will require a bending angle bar to bend to capacity. A common piece of 1/4"x2" angle should 
do the trick so long as its straight.


A total of 15 fingers and one custom made. I still need to inspect for damage, but right off the bat
they will beed to have the bottoms reconditioned. I also noticed one with damage from bending rod


Spent a full day trying to adjust but found myself removing hardware to clean multiple coats of paint.
I also removed the table hardened bar to flip, the back side a virgin. The problem is two or three holes where drilled at the factory slightly misaligned. I should be able to slot them slightly using a mag drill. I was unsuccessful in aligning the leaf to the table by .0858". I decided to further tear down the folding leaf and inspect the pivot point for excessive wear that could be preventing the realignment. Working alone takes creative thinking at times when picking heavy items that want to rotate such as the leaf. I rotated the leaf 180º and secured a rigging chain and took up slack, then removed the two counter weight prior to removing the ten bolts.


The pins where driven out using a bronze rod after the leaf was removed. They came out easy but then again, I used "Free all" penetrant the day prior. The paint was so thick a socket would not fit but a wire wheel took care of that. I wouldn't be surprised if lead base paint was used somewhere between those coats.


Bronzed bearings as they are called in the manual. The pin fit snuggly into the cast bracket but very loose in the bushings. An oil journal was noted around the center and two legs front/back for the oiler that was painted over.


These 3M products remove the layers of paint without cutting into base metal. Kinda expensive, but worth it and the green ones last a long time. The worn out one was used on several projects and is ready to be tossed.


The pivot pins have flat spots for the set screws to bite onto. Better than just round as this can become problematic to remove if a burr is encountered. I have delt with that situation (as many other have) its a PITA. They where thinking on this one.


Waiting on parts quote  and I might try to flame straighten the leaf section but probably wait to do it on machine. Back to the lathe/mill cart build.
Incidentally, I used the  said cart (prematurely) as a support cart during inspection and teardown. Rolls nice under weight.




Gona also get some quotes for sand blasting. I don't want to install/press new bushings prior to blasting. Its really a toss up, spending more money on parts/blasting and paint, or reassemble after new bushings  to ensure the unit it still salvageable/within tolerances, then disassemble if it proves to be good.

BTW, there is very limited information available on these units, If any tin benders on the site, please chime in. Any advice is always welcomed good/bad or indifferent.
I'm always trying to learn and share my experiences.
Thanks for looking, more to come later.
Turn and Burn!
Paco

Thanks for looking


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## gi_984

Paco,  looking good so far.  Hope she isn't sprung too much.  I'm eventually going to get a box/pan break for my shop.  But not until I move into a bigger place.  
Question:  How will you recondition the bottom of the fingers?


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## francist

Nice work so far Paco, although I gotta say your work is always exquisite. I have an older (and smaller) D&K Chicago as well except at 36". Different style than yours with but also 14ga capacity. Mine came with no fingers so I ended up making some from scratch. The thread is here

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/brake-fingers.50968/#post-431868

for what it's worth. I doubt they'll stand up to hard use, but they do work just fine for the small stuff I fool around with. Looking forward to seeing how your machine finishes up.

-frank

edit: capacity of mine is actually 16 ga, not 14ga as stated above


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## Firestopper

gi_984 said:


> Paco,  looking good so far.  Hope she isn't sprung too much.  I'm eventually going to get a box/pan break for my shop.  But not until I move into a bigger place.
> Question:  How will you recondition the bottom of the fingers?



Thanks gi_984, The Nose bars (fingers) are semi hardened. Too hard and they would fracture under use. I'm hoping to jig them up one at a time and face mill. I would need to find the worst one and mill clean. Once I have a "standard", I would need to mill the same amount off the remaining bars to maintain even clamping force and alignment. I just ordered the pins and bushing and one left hand screw (it was missing) and the tally came to $150 with shipping. While I as on the phone with Mona, I asked about the cost of Nose Bars, she informed me they run $21.00/inch. So yea, I'll give face milling (insert type) a try. On the finger extensions, I think a 3/4" CR flat bar would work well with minimal machining required. I'll post that when I cross that bridge tho. BTW, Chicago D&K use hot rolled bar for finger extensions. 



francist said:


> Nice work so far Paco, although I gotta say your work is always exquisite. I have an older (and smaller) D&K Chicago as well except at 36". Different style than yours with but also 14ga capacity. Mine came with no fingers so I ended up making some from scratch. The thread is here
> 
> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/brake-fingers.50968/#post-431868
> 
> for what it's worth. I doubt they'll stand up to hard use, but they do work just fine for the small stuff I fool around with. Looking forward to seeing how your machine finishes up.
> 
> -frank



Thank you Frank,

I cant believe I hadn't seen you post on your box &  pan brake, Very nice indeed. I skimmed though you post but will read it in detail. Your results are amazing! Nice work man. The model I have is no longer offered, but they still support all the parts. Hopefully, I can get her back in within tolerances. If I cant flame straighten the last .090", I plan on machining down the right pivot bracket and shim accordingly. I cranked pretty good on the torsion bar to the rear of the table but would hate to over do it resulting in FUBAR. I have done pretty complicated flame straightening back in the early 80's on submarines, but that was long ago and I was at my peak of my learning curve. These days I cant remember what I ate for dinner two days ago hahah. I've totally and officially ran out or RAM a few years ago. It would be awesome if I could simply plug in a thumb drive into my head and update RAM, but thats life brother, don't get old.

Thanks for the encouragement and input gents, I'll keep you posted on progress.


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## FOMOGO

Nice brake. My money's on you getting it back to spec. Hey, if it was easy everybody would be doing it. Cheers, Mike


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## Firestopper

Thanks Mike,
I have a plan "B" that would require machining one pivot bracket that might provide better control.
I repurposed an old threaded shaft to drive out the worn bushings. The were two piece set with the gap in the middle that served as a oil journal. The bushings also had small groves towards the center.




Awaiting parts at the moment.


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## Firestopper

I received  the replacement apron bearings/bushings and pivot pins from Dreis & Krump today. Turns out they use Oilite bushings now so no longer require the 30W machine oil to be shot through the ball oiler located at the top of the main pivot point. The question I have for you folks is, while I have the machine apart, should I drill out the old ball oiler, press in new bushing, drill small hole through the bushing (clean off any burrs) then install new ball oiler or will the Oilite provide enough lubricity on its own? I ask only because it's my understanding that the Oilite material only "sweats" oil under friction and temp then reabsorbs the oil under static conditions. The pivot action will never produce any measurable temperature change when bending metal. I'm thinking a little outside oil might keep things from wearing out prematurely but what say you?

This is the original left pin and two piece bushing that was removed. The pin was sloppy and worn about .008" at its worst spot.
The old two piece bushings have two oil journals machined 180º apart and gapped at the center where the ball oiler is located.


Here you can see the ball oiler centered on the main pivot body. Again, the two piece bushing where gapped at the center allowing oil to coat the shaft then captured by the small journals on both bushings. This is originally how the machine was built in 1977.


The replacement Oilite bushings are one piece with no hole or journals.
The new pins fit snug but rotate freely in the new bushings.


Now would be the time to reinstate the ball oiler if at all. The components are heavy and I only want to do this once so any advice would be very much appreciated. 
BTW, in speaking with Dreis/Krump's engineer, the tolerance for all pins and bushings on this machine are .001" per inch of pins diameter. I ordered the bushings/bearings for the left/right side clamp, pivot shaft and clamp handle assemblies. They where all very sloppy. The shafts all measured good so the old bushings did their job unlike the apron pivot points. 
Thanks for any response in advance.


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## extropic

Just found this thread. Nice buy Paco.

I started to vote for the reinstatement of the oilers but, after thinking about it a little more, I'm not so sure. 

How much service is that brake going to see in your lifetime (another 50 years). Would you ever wear them to the point that replacement was called for?

What are the trade offs?

Will more oil add to the life of the joint? I would expect so, as long as no contamination is introduced in the oiling procedure. Contamination isn't much of a problem considering the resident PM mechanic.

You could band saw a slot, perpendicular to the axis, at mid length and about half way across each bushing. Then cut spiral reliefs in both halves with a rotary tool to distribute the oil. Remove all burrs and shavings and there you go.

I think I'd reinstate the oilers, but I don't think it's a big deal either way.

Most importantly, there is about zero chance the brake will ever be abused (in your shop) so it's going to last a lifetime either way.

Regarding the  leaf alignment, I don't understand where/how/what the problem is. When you revisit that area of the refurbishment please clarify what is to be aligned and what is out/where. Thanks, as always.


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## f350ca

I like the idea of oiling joints, fresh oil flushes out particles from wear thereby removing abrasive material. Drilling the one piece bushings isn't going to give you a reservoir. I'd be tempted to cut the new bushing and make two that would install as the old ones did. 

Greg


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## extropic

I'm attaching the Oillite guide which should help you decide which way to go.
I wonder which grade of material the OEM sold you?


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## Firestopper

extropic said:


> Just found this thread. Nice buy Paco.
> 
> I started to vote for the reinstatement of the oilers but, after thinking about it a little more, I'm not so sure.
> 
> How much service is that brake going to see in your lifetime (another 50 years). Would you ever wear them to the point that replacement was called for?
> 
> What are the trade offs?
> 
> Will more oil add to the life of the joint? I would expect so, as long as no contamination is introduced in the oiling procedure. Contamination isn't much of a problem considering the resident PM mechanic.
> 
> You could band saw a slot, perpendicular to the axis, at mid length and about half way across each bushing. Then cut spiral reliefs in both halves with a rotary tool to distribute the oil. Remove all burrs and shavings and there you go.
> 
> I think I'd reinstate the oilers, but I don't think it's a big deal either way.
> 
> Most importantly, there is about zero chance the brake will ever be abused (in your shop) so it's going to last a lifetime either way.
> 
> Regarding the  leaf alignment, I don't understand where/how/what the problem is. When you revisit that area of the refurbishment please clarify what is to be aligned and what is out/where. Thanks, as always.





f350ca said:


> I like the idea of oiling joints, fresh oil flushes out particles from wear thereby removing abrasive material. Drilling the one piece bushings isn't going to give you a reservoir. I'd be tempted to cut the new bushing and make two that would install as the old ones did.
> 
> Greg



Thanks for the feedback guys, I think creating a two piece bushing might be the way to go. If I was to saw a slot the bushing would likely collapse (at the slot) upon pressing in resulting misalignment/binding of pin (I think).  The contaminants would result from normal ware over the course of long term use so flushing by way of outside oil would work via ball oiler.  I'm not 100% I need to grove the inside of the bushings as this could retain/pack contamination over time. The old bushing journals where packed with abrasive doodoo.
The distance from the ball oiler to the bushing is almost two inches, I was thinking the 1/4" hole (between oiler and bushing) in the main housing and a 1/8" hole through the bushing might provide a nice reservoir allowing the bushing to remain one piece. This would probably be enough to flush it on periodic scheduled maintenance.

Probably over thinking the whole thing, but the next guy that owns this machine will be able to place it in immediate service unlike myself.
Always room for improvement and I continue to learn by asking. 

Extropic, The adjustments come by way of turn buckles found on rear of the top clamp and bottom table. Other adjustments are from the top clamp center and folding leaf center. the machine should have a slight crown to both the top clamp and apron when static. This provides an even bend throughout the bent/broken piece. I'm hoping my previous failure to achieve this was due to sloppy joints/pivot (all eight of them). Thanks for the Oilite link you provided. Unfortunately, I don't know the exact composition of the Oilite bushings Dreis & Krump sell. A good read non the less.

Hard to read but I have a hard copy coming:


Gentalmen,thanks again for taking the time to help me out. 

Happy Thanksgiving!

Paco


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## Firestopper

The 3/4" X 12" x 72" piece of cold rolled I ordered arrived late yesterday. I Plan on using this material for the finger extensions, Turns out all but one were bent making it impossible to line up the nose bars. Theres a total of 15 fingers  (4) 3", (2) 4",(5) 5" and (4) 6" widths.  Industrial Metal Supply had 3/4" x 10" CR but I required minimum of 10.5" wide so the next up size was 12" wide. (bummer). I was able to cut the bar flat on the Ellis 1800, It was pretty much maxed out but did a nice job cutting very close to square. I was able to get +/- .003"from end to end on a 12" cut so was happy with that.

This bar was a beast coming in at 30.600 pounds per foot so the 72" piece weighed a hair over 183.5 lbs. The hardest part was pulling it from the bed of the truck and onto the fork lift, the rest was cake as the input feed rollers make it very easy to feed the saw.



The Ellis 1800 was barely big enough. The max height for this saw is 9" so flat was the only way to cut this.
It took about 4 minutes per cut and had a nice steady chip production. The saw is designed to be used dry, but with this much blade contact, a shot of WD-40 every 30-40 seconds made a world of difference. The blade was cool to the touch the entire time so the feed rate was right. The quality of the swarf also confirmed the feed rate. They looked like tiny cork screws.


These are the finger extensions I'm shooting for. This one was the only one that survived the abuse. The rest are toast. The OEM extensions where made of Hot Rolled bar, but I wanted true flat bar to machine and the CR is a bit stronger. After the top/bottom is machined, I will lay out the two threaded holes and the nose bar counter board hole (top view). 


The bottom required more machining than the top as the nose bar clamps are involved.


Heres the stack of extensions. Still need to de-burr and cut the 40º nose angle. I think the Ellis could provide a straight cut now that the pieces can be clamped on edge. I probably set up a stop so they all end up at 10.5"long  after the 40º cut. The blade should like the 3/4" vs the 12" contact hahah.


Close up of the cut finish, pretty pleased with the Bahco  blade. They claim this blade pitch does it all, I guess they weren't  lying.
I've been using this blade for the better part of ten months and have cut plenty of stock. 


Not exactly accurate but does represent how the extension (finger) is used.



Thanks for looking, and happy hump day!

Paco


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## f350ca

Thats an impressive piece of CR Paco. Interesting finger design, really like the hardened ends.

Greg


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## Firestopper

f350ca said:


> Thats an impressive piece of CR Paco. Interesting finger design, really like the hardened ends.
> 
> Greg



Yea, it was the largest CR flat bar I have ever delt with. The nose bars are semi hardened. I’m hopeful a face mill will clean them up. Dreis gets $21/ inch for those. The brake needs a ton of TLC, but a new 6’ box and pan brake is more than I can afford. We’ll get there...eventually.


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## f350ca

The nose bars cost about what I paid for my 48 inch brake a number of years ago.

Greg


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## Firestopper

I decided to square up the flat bars before attempting to cut the 40º nose angles. Although very close and consistent, they still varied slightly.
I used a flat surface to to square up the factory ends and clamp two at a time then set them up for a face mill pass. I only have two shell mills and limited experience using them on steel. One is a four cutter that takes individual carbide tipped cutters that is manually indexed (3.5"), the second  one is a 2.5" five cutter that uses TPG style inserts. Both of these cutter came with the mill as a package so not items I purchased individually with intent.
I had used the larger cutter on aluminum with very nice results and gave it a try. A face shield and long sleeve welding shirt became my best friends as hot chips where flying in all directions.

Here is the initial squaring using the factory edges prior to clamping. Poor mans granite surface.
Incidentally, I purchased the large set up block back in 2002-3 on eBay back when plenty of good deals could be had (not so much now).
I want to say I gave $20 for it and its flat. I use this on the press often when pressing smaller bearings.


Clamped the bars and set up on the mill.
The saw really did a fantastic job of cutting considering the length, but with a 12" cut they all had a slight .002-3" bevel that required clean up.
They will eventually be mounted in the vise flat for milling the steps on the ends. The sides need to be true for a good setup.
Verified the table and vise tram prior to this set up.


The backlight made it easy to verify the precision square to the factory edge.


No light showing after adjustment. Ready for the first pass. The right side on this particular piece was .001" wider than the left side (due to the bevel cut).


First pass using the larger shell mill at 700 RPM and 10 ipm (power feed) with a depth cut of .020"
Climb face milling, is this correct?


Re-clamped  flipped and used the base of the vice for indexing the good side. A quick check with the square set up was satisfactory.
The carbide shell mill was tired starting off and the second cut finish looks like doo-doo compared to the first.
The second 6" pair  of finger extensions  where set up and I opted for the smaller 2.5" five cutter shell. This one uses TPG inserts that can be rotated three times. Well those where also tired from the start and had already been rotated three times. Poor planning on my part.
The finish was excellent compared to the second pass with the first  cutter. All four 6" extensions are with in 1/2 thou.
I was able to get three of four sides of the 5" extensions before the finish surface began to diminish. The chips where glowing at 800 RPM and 10 ipm with a depth cut of .005" The inserts where done. Work stoppage until the new inserts arrive. I found some NOS Kennametal TPG 324 (1/16" radius) Grade KC730 (eBay). The old ones where unknown maker and more than likely a C2 grade. Inserts still confuse the hell out of me. It took me at least three hours to figure out what I had to begin with. Its all about learning, but inserts charts give me a headache .

Heres a shot of the finish.


The second shell cutter is a 2.5" ATP.


14 sides down (5" pair still on the mill ) and 12 to go.



Question for you experienced face mill users, would it be possible to utilize the same process to mill the the steps required, or will the interrupted cut be a problem for this type of cutter?

One end of top surface require a step. The opposing end gets the 40º angle cut (band saw).


The bottom gets both ends step cut. I have end mills but wondering if a face mill cut is appropriate.


That all the progress on the Dreis & Krump for now. Any advice is greatly appreciated. It's all about learning and not getting hurt.

Gonna take it easy today and take my wife to the Zoo for an evening special event.
Never been to our local Zoo at night so looking forward to seeing the nocturnal critters. Our evening temps are nice this time of year too.

Turn and Burn!

Paco


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## f350ca

I have an indexible 1 1/4 inch end mill with an R8 shank that uses 2 triangular inserts. Would work great for the steps. This would be a great application for a shaper.

Greg


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## Firestopper

f350ca said:


> I have an indexible 1 1/4 inch end mill with an R8 shank that uses 2 triangular inserts. Would work great for the steps. This would be a great application for a shaper.
> 
> Greg



I've always been intrigued by shapers. Watched some videos of them in action, like the rhythmic sound they make. Neve used one or even touched one for that matter. 
This is the cutter I used and considering for the steps. It is a 90º square shouldered, just concerned about the performance on interrupted cuts for the narrower steps.
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/03122975


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## f350ca

Thats the larger dia version of mine, use it to cut shoulders often.

Greg


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## Firestopper

Cool, thank you Greg.


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## Firestopper

Made more  progress on the D&K brake. I was able to source the remaining six bushings from a local bearing house and saved a considerable amount and a very reasonable shipping charge. The remaining bushings are the largest sizes this machine uses from the smallest ID of 1.500 to the largest ID of 4" and lengths up to 3". I had priced them originally from D&K and they wanted $365 plus shipping of over $40.  I was able to source them for $100.35 (including shipping and tax). Same ISO and SAE rating (Oilight). 

I also was able to finish squaring the remainder of the extensions after replacing the inserts on the shell mill. They are all to exact dimensions and ready for the bevel cut on the nose bar end. I had mentioned in an earlier post that I would attempt to use the band saw for this operation by clamping the material vertically. More on that later.

The lager 4" ID bushing to the left will be made into two. They are used on the large clamp handle and cam over to open/close the heavy top clamp on the machine. The second set (middle) are offset within the handle creating the cam action (1.5" ID) and the last pair (2" ID) are for the pivot blocks that prevent binding of the action. They are 3.5" long and are pressed in the lower section of the main table.


The old bushings where warn and sloppy. The tolerance is .001" per inch of diameter. These felt like they had over .100" play.  


This longer 4" bushing will be made into two and the ID fit was nice and snug. You can also see the cam over bushing that rides on a 1.5" pin.




The last pair also fit nicely over the pivot block. This also controls the clamping force for different material thickness being bent.


I took a measurement of the width needed for parting the larger bushing.


The large bushing was indicated in within .0005" using the 8" 4 jaw comb chuck. I then grooved the area to be parted to crate a bevel.


Set up the parting tool and power fed at 300 RPM using the chip brush handle to catch the cutoff. This material cuts well and is self lubricating.
The cutoff tool was slightly off center to preserve the bevel matching the factory end.
	

		
			
		

		
	



Rinse/repeat for second bushing. I really enjoy using this combo chuck. The repeatability is a time saver.
Re chucked the rings and bevel ID to match factory end and a tiny bit of facing to match the width needed.
Incidentally, D&K wanted $76 each for those ring bushings. I was able to buy the larger one for $45. 


The original bushing width measurement came in at 1.5065
The new bushings:
#1,2 



My seventeen year old chi com lathe still has it.

Next up was to cut the bevels on the finger extensions.


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## Firestopper

Here's the set up I used on the Ellis 1800 band saw.

The saw was set to 41º (matching factory bevel). A stop was clamped (right clamp) to ensure all 14 pieces ended up the exact length. A little gap was provided for though chip cleanup after each cut. The face milled edge provided a square edge to ensure the saw cut to be as square as possible in both planes. This piece was 4" wide with the widest pieces at 6". The clamp on the left holds everything in place while the screw vise does the real work.




I used a shot of WD-40 every 20-30 seconds as the material is .750" thick but at 41º it was cutting closer to 1.125". Each cut took about 3 minutes for the 4" wide stock and roughly 4.5-5 minutes for the 6". I adjusted the feed to produce a constant quality chip production but not so slow that the martial would work harden. I have made this mistake in the past when cutting CR, so I'm always keen on avoiding this. I once ruined  a new blade ($60) cutting CR too slow.
For anyone using an Ellis saw with the lever lock style vise. Always use a secondary clamp (C-clamp) as the material will slip during an angle cut resulting in teeth stripping. This screw vise was money well spent saving countless blades in the long run. I still use the two original lever vice when cutting straight non round stock material.


Pretty good match on the angle.  The green finger (5") was the only sole survivor and used as a standard for all measurements. The rest are junk bent scrap made of HR flat bar.


Ready for the next mill operations. I am very pleased with how well they turned out considering the method used to create the bevels.


2-4", 4-3",4-6" and 5-5" (including the green one) for a total of 15 finger extensions.


Got a few drops...Wondering what I can use them for.


Thats all for now. I should finish tearing down the brake and get it to the sand blaster. Once I get it back, I will pull old bushings and mask and paint. I still have a fair amount of repairs prior to this but we'll get there.
Thanks for looking.

Turn and Burn!
Paco


----------



## mksj

Paco, stellar work as usual. That Ellis is remarkable at it's accuracy, paid for itself many times over. Sounds like you got the shell mill to work well with the new inserts.  Keep up the great work.
Mark


----------



## f350ca

Your making great progress Paco, can't believe how well that saw cuts.

Greg


----------



## Firestopper

Thank you Mark,
Your RPM recommendation for the face milling operation was spot on, Thank you.
The Ellis still impresses me after ten years. Its a simple proven design for sure.

I have another face mill question for you guys. 
Should I keep the vise set up perpendicular to the table (X axis) and face mill in the  -Y axis (away from the front of machine) or +Y towards the front.
Or should I set up the vise 90º and face mill in the +X axis (climb mill). I only ask because the machine is two axis CNC with ball screws. I will be using power feeds. I have read that ball screw are less desirable in manual machines and I use this machine mostly in manual mode. To me, I don't think it cares as its still tight but I will be taking respectable cuts to achieve the next operation of steps cuts. I do lock down the axis when not used.
Any input would be appreciated. Probably over thinking it, but face milling on steel is new to me.
Thanks,
Paco


----------



## Firestopper

f350ca said:


> Your making great progress Paco, can't believe how well that saw cuts.
> 
> Greg



Thanks Greg,

That saw has been good to me. I've pushed it to its limits on this project to say the least. I did spend over an hour detailing it after yesterdays workout. 
Paco


----------



## Firestopper

Yesterdays project was to drill/tap the clamp bracket holes and drill and counter bore the nose bar clamp hole. I was able to get the first eight fingers done but was disappointed at the quality control of D&K hole location on the clamping bracket. Seems they don't really try to center the pair of holes. The new fingers where laid out from the center and set up on the mill using the DRO. Each set required center measurement changes due to the 4 different finger widths (3",4",5",6"). Other variations encountered where the hole spacing on the 5". Luckily, I verified each bracket and made adjustment to each finger, That said, each finger has its own bracket. Example: Two of four 5" brackets where drilled at 4.250" OC. while the other two where 4.284" OC. and three of four 5" brackets D&K failed to center the hole layout.
My mistake was not verifying this so as a result the brackets bolt on slightly off center about 1/32"-1/16". I can live with this as none overhang past the fingers, they just look like an eighth grader laid them out.

A "Z" drill was used on the nose bar hole followed by a Weldon cutter with a pilot diameter just under the Z. A large counter sink broke the edge.
The counter bore was .386"deep for the 3/8-16 Allen cap screw.


The pair of holes where drilled and taped to 3/8-16 and are centered to the finger.
The sharpie lines are just references for me to input the correct DRO reading. 


A test fit, Heres when I realized the brakes holes where not centered on the clamp bracket.
This particular bracket was centered and shared the same 4.250" OC hole spacing with a second bracket.


The second bracket is close to flush on one side the finger and 1/16" short on the opposite side.
I could mill the difference but its really not an operational issue other than leaving me scratching my head and talking to myself.


I decided to keep all my holes centered on all the new fingers but will accommodate for the varying hole spacing. 
The steps have not been milled yet but you get the idea. Gonna try and get the other six fingers (2-4" and 4-3") drilled/taped today. 


Thats all for now, thanks for looking.
Peace,

Paco


----------



## Firestopper

Ready for step cutting operation. 
Combined drilling came to 105", tapping 21" and counter boring 5.46" without drama except for the multiple razor cuts from handling these billets.
Those bevels really are sharp.

Paco


----------



## f350ca

Now thats funny, adding up the inches drilled and tapped is something only I thought I did.

Greg


----------



## Firestopper

Haha,  Well Greg, I have to entertain myself when doing production runs. Now, if I was to add up my time figuring out how long it took to clean up the mess and divide the time by the number of holes drill/tapped I'd be . heheh
Not a single tool was harmed during the making of these parts


----------



## Firestopper

Made another press tool for the handle link bushings. Turned down an old bushing to use as a sleeve, then parted two different lengths for progressive pressing. Ordered a 1" medium roughing end mill and end mill holder for cutting the .750" x .065" steps and the .750" x .327" steps. 
Planning on using the face mill for the larger  3" x .125" nose bar steps. 

I used the shorter sleeve to start the tool, then added the second sleeve to complete the push. The old bushing was turned .045" smaller OD than the bushing being pressed out. 




The right side pivot block was chingered pretty good. Apparently some knucklehead used a hammer to to work the block out at some point. More than likely the shaft had scored in the dried bronze bushing i'm guessing. It took a cheater bar and large pry bar to work the pivot block out. It would bind when rotating 360º. Once out, it was obvious the shaft end was hammered on resulting in mushrooming enough to prevent a smooth pivot. Indicated the block end in the chuck and was able to clean up the shaft end. The end also has a snap ring groove that required cleaning up.
The new bushing slipped on well. Then the hammer dings where faced off both blocks for a new look.


New goodies.


Used the last word to double check the vice set up and a wiggler to set up the DRO. 


Took the cut .750"x.065" in a single pass. 340 RPM and 10 IPM (power feed). A nice feature with CNC/manual mill is the servo brake preventing the table from moving/creeping. With this larger end mill, I locked the x axis anyway. 


Tomorrow I  hope to cut the deeper .327" step  in three passes. Those chips coming off the rougher where nasty (thick sharp little "C"s).  I had to use needle nose pliers to clear my shoe soles. It made walking slick as hell on the smooth floor.


64" worth of step and the end mill still looks great.

I wanted to share a quick story. This morning I received a phone call from Industrial Metal Supply (IMS). Turns out they caught a charge error in my favor. At the time when I ordered the 3/4"x 12" x 72" CR flat bar (33.66 lb/ft) they inadvertently charged me for more weight. Any way, they called to inform me that a $65 credit was placed back on my credit card. Bonus! Its nice to deal with an honest supplier. For those of you who have never stepped foot into an IMS store, Its like metal/tool porn warehouse and they provide EMS/fire with a 15% discount to boot.


Thanks for visiting.

Turn and burn!
Paco


----------



## Firestopper

Back at it today, I decided to double check the top clamp track where the fingers insert. The factory steps cuts leave a center measurement of .350". The track easily can accommodate .380". I decided to leave some extra meat and only take a total depth cut of .300" x .625" leaving me with .378"center measurement. They fit very nicely and slide side to side smoothly.

I decided to take a single .300" depth with no clean up pass. I adjusted the RPM to 400 and slowed the feed rate down to 8 IPM. I figured the end mill and holder was plenty stout as is the Lagun so what did I have to lose.
Ate through all 14 fingers with a nice surface finish.


This end of the fingers are completed.


One of the OEM finger (green) and one of its newest brother.




The final operation will be to mill a .125"deep X 2.250" step on the nose to accommodate the nose bar.


Started feeling crappy so I cleaned up the mill, shop and set up for the next operation. I'm probably coming down with the flu.
Seems every call this past tour was a "Sick person" and now its my turn.....Should I call 911?
We did have a ripping house fire the other night. Poor dude lost a 66 GTO and a 66 Vette both restored as well as the three vehicles outside.
	

		
			
		

		
	



Heres the setup for the next and final finger/s operation.


That all for now and thanks for the visit.

Turn and burn, and blow off the worthless flue shot this year.

Paco


----------



## Firestopper

After *t*wo weeks of dealing with the flu, I'm finally back in the shop. It took longer to recover simply because I went back to work after my break. The fever lasted four days of a six day break. I was fever free when I went back so my station brothers where safe from me anyway.
I put in a 12 hour day yesterday and felt about 95%. Not well enough to machine with a clear head so decided to make a steel run and get the rest of the brake torn down, repair bent items and torch and grind.  I worked outside in the beautiful 70'sº weather as this is "dirty hot work".

Picked up some 5" channel and a 10' remnant of .1875" x 3" x 6" rectangular structural tubing. I plan on fabricating fork pockets to move the machine safely and efficiently. No casters on this piece of equipment as it does require leveling for proper operation. The darn thing is extremely top heavy to pick with slings.



Been buying from Supirior Steel since 1989 and they seem to always take care of me. The remnant ran me $60 so not bad, I'll only need 48" but I'm sure the remainder will come in handy down the road.


Separating the top clamp went smooth using 2x4 to protect the finger channel.


I kept the fork extensions under the unit to elevate the bent base. I used heat to straighten all four bent leveling pads.
Front and rear of the stand where bent upwards.
Front:


Rear:


I used a #10 rosebud to heat the bend line at the toe of the weld only. This took about  2 minutes of heat. The elevated setup mad it easy to get her back inline. The base material is 3/8" x 4" flat bar welded to the stand which is a form bent piece of 3/16"plate.
A scrap piece of 1/8" sheet was used to protect the concrete .


Back to original position.


Next up was to cut off the badly bent 3/4" solid round bars designed to tie in the lower break to the stand (bracing).
The unit was moved off the concrete for this operation as the slag would have spalled the concrete.
A scarfing tip was used on the cutting torch to minimize grinding as much as possible. This required me to get close up and under the unit. Cutting safety glasses and a face shield along with heavy gloves as the slag was ricocheting off the surrounding structure.
Really sucked but getting a grinder next to the torsion bar made it difficult. All the tension was removed from the torsion bar prior to this operation to keep it from stretching from near by heat. The trick was to minimize the heat on the parent metal while working around the torsion bar.



The brace bars where once welded to the lower section (corner) of the stand. You can see the remains of the weld. Its a mystery to me why these bars where cut and bent backwards. The auction photos never showed these details....imagine that!


# 2 scarfing tip made short work of grinding. I first cut off the excess bent section prior to scarfing the welds. 



A four inch grinder took care of the remaining weld with no gouging to parent metal.


Close up of right side. As seen, the torsion bar was in direct fire of the flame towards the top. It was impossible to cut away from the bar
as the torch head didn't allow room to work with the correct angle. This is why I took all the tension off the torsion nut. The larger flat bar welded to the lower apron is 3/4" x 2" allowing some forgiveness to the applied heat. No evidence of significant heat transfer to the opposite side, the paint was unchanged on the 1/2" parent material . I did mange to get a little slag in my right ear. It immediately took me back to my field welding/ship dry dock days when this was a common occurrence. I'm too old to be on my knees crammed into a tight quarters torch cutting/grinding hahaha.....seriously. 


After getting the unit moved back on level ground I was taking preliminary measurements for the base channel and noticed a 1" discrepancy. Turns out the left base weldment on the lower apron is welded at a slight angle. Dries & Krump's lack of quality control. I wonder how many units out there are sitting goofy. I removed both bases and they mated up perfectly to each other. I pretty confidant the machine didn't take a hit as the bases are much thinner/lighter than the 3/4" bar welded to the 1-1/4" end plate they bolt to. 
I'm debating on cutting the left stand at the top where the 1/2" x 4" flat bar is welded to the 3/16" and re-welding it at a slight angle to compensate for the 1" or simply tack a shim running the full length and call it good.
Right side view is vertical:


Left side not so much:
I could cut the front and rear welds (stand) and pull a little using this set up. The end horizontal (full weld) weld would hold plenty to allow the 3/16" plate to bend outward a little, then just re-weld the ends. Best I can tell, the mating surface of the lower apron is welded 1/16 +/-" off translating to approximately 1" in 20". I'll try out a piece 1/8" x 1" flat strap (shim) and see how it looks before committing to cutting the base.


Its been a journey, but we'll get there.
Thanks for visiting and any advice/comments are always welcomed.

Turn and Burn!

Paco


----------



## extropic

I think you'd better straighten that stand.

Otherwise I predict some sleeplessness and kicking-self-in-rear.   

Seriously, I wonder if the mysteriously unattached and bent struts are somehow related. Possibly the stands were replaced once upon a time?


----------



## f350ca

I've never seen a tip like that Paco, thanks for showing us.
As entropic said, maybe the stands were replaced at some time, don't see any green paint else where, except that one finger. If only these old machines could talk. Where are the stake pockets going?
Envious of your weather at the moment, not so much when its in the 40's celsius down there though. Drove from -40 c in Alberta to your area at plus 40 a number of years ago.

Greg


----------



## Firestopper

extropic said:


> I think you'd better straighten that stand.
> 
> Otherwise I predict some sleeplessness and kicking-self-in-rear.
> 
> Seriously, I wonder if the mysteriously unattached and bent struts are somehow related. Possibly the stands were replaced once upon a time?



Man, I think you know me pretty good, I couldn't stand the 1/2 bubble out of plumb. I ended up taking a slice at both ends with a 5" cutoff blade and simply pulled it back plumb. Ran a single hoy pass and all is well again.  I should sleep like a baby tonight.


----------



## Firestopper

f350ca said:


> I've never seen a tip like that Paco, thanks for showing us.
> As entropic said, maybe the stands were replaced at some time, don't see any green paint else where, except that one finger. If only these old machines could talk. Where are the stake pockets going?
> Envious of your weather at the moment, not so much when its in the 40's celsius down there though. Drove from -40 c in Alberta to your area at plus 40 a number of years ago.
> 
> Greg



Hi Greg,

Those tips are or at least where popular in the shipyards back in the day. I seldom use the O/A these days but nice to have the option. I normally air arc stuff like this out, but would have caught myself on fire with that method hehe.

Yeah, who knows what that old iron has been through. I don't have buyers remorse quite yet, but damn that thing has been though tough times. 
I'm getting close for blasting, once thats done the rest should be uneventful with no more surprises (fingers crossed). The voice inside my head is telling me to reassemble everything Including the new bushings prior to blasting and painting in case I need to flame straighten. That would require caps on all bushings to protect from blasting and more time re-assembling only to tear down yet again for blasting. I want to paint in sections for a good quality job when all said and done. The old bushings where badly worn which lead me to suspect the brake wasn't sprung when I couldn't dial it in originally. All the bent finger extensions didn't help either.
The fork pocket will be cut into the 5" channel and sleeved with the rectangular structural tubing. I'll post up some photos of todays progress shortly. I only had a few hours of shop time as the lawn needed mowing and a neighbor down the road needed a 18"x 36" hole dug. He's 83 and has been diagnosed with lung CA. He's a retired tool and die maker and a hoot to hang out with. 
Our winters are lovely in Southern Arizona with todays high of 76º. Summers are another story.
Stay warm Greg and thanks for stopping in.
Paco


----------



## Firestopper

Todays progress was to address the cooked stand and get the channel cut.

A 5" cutoff wheel made short work of the cut on the front and back of the stand. Very little effort was required to pull the stand back to plumb. The fork lift was used to raise the machine for this operation making it simple. 
The cut was made at the weld toe. Back side view.


Front end. Hard to see but the cut is only 1/8" wide. It opened up to 3/16" (pie shaped) when the stand was pulled plumb.


A single hot pass filled in the pie shaped gap.


Nice and straight with even numbers on the tape measure
I failed to get a photo of both channels in position but you can see the front one in place.
The pockets will be cut for a wide fork pick.


A short shop day today but should make progress tomorrow.
Thanks for visiting.

Paco


----------



## FOMOGO

Project is coming along nicely Paco. I see by the pics you've been drifting the Hyster again. Mike


----------



## Firestopper

Thanks Mike, 
Man that machine (fork lift) is one of my best buys. Seems I use it everyday whether for shop/house work or drifting when bored.

Thanks for checking in. BTW, how's your mill project coming along?

Turn and Burn!

Paco


----------



## Firestopper

Got some decent shop time in today and with the weather absolutely beautiful, I spent most of the day on the apron. 
Got the 5" channel laid out and cut as well as the 3/16" x 3" x 6" tube for the fork pockets.



Use the 1250 Hypertherm to cut the pocket holes. The pressure vessel has 10 lbs. of desiccant to ensure dry air. The shop has a refrigerated air dryer but I normally don't use it for small cut jobs and just use this unit.


60 amps allowed for fast travel and all four cuts took under 10 minutes.


I clamped them back to back to ensure a lineup and fit. The channel had a slight bow in the center after cutting and probably would have been worse had the cut travel speed been reduced.


Cut a 2" piece to check the slip fit.


Next was to clean off all the dross and mill scale at all weld joints as well as sand off the green paint on the stand.
I wanted the option to use the pallet jack to move the brake in the shop so I cut some 1/4"x3" gussets to tie the channel into the stands base plate. These too where cleaned off for welding. The channels barely fit so I decided to weld the gusset after the channels where inside the stand.
The channels where turned upside down to weld the gussets. No way to access the weld joint once the channel is in place.

Here you can see the how tight wrestling in the channel was between the stand. The good news is rotating the channels was no problem



Used el cheapo 123 block to set up and tack the gussets. Once welded, the channel was rotated 180º and tacked in place.




A quick check with the square and tacked them in. Here you can see the welded gusset in place. 
No way to access the overhead weld in this position.


Heres a shot of one of four weld joints. The gap needed for the pallet jack (PJ) was 3.250" and with the 3" gusset resting atop of the .375" flat bar, It gave just enough room to slide in the PJ.


Slid in the structural tubing and checked level and squareness once more and tacked those in.


I used the new Miller 252 to weld her up. Put her through the paces but I did skip weld to control distortion.


couple of welded joints.




Rrear fork pocket.


Up, up and away!  Worked out well and a safe way to move/load a top heavy machine.


Those bottom pocket welds where fun, welding on my side with my neck contorted Hahaha, getting too old for some positions.


The PJ slid in and worked well too. Two pumps and the brake was off the floor.



Not so young anymore, welding in tight quarters and on the floor came with a price. 
Ate some ibuprofen for dinner.

All in all a good day with good results. Thanks for checking it out.

Turn and Burn,
Paco


----------



## f350ca

Nice welds !!!  I never get that stack of dimes look, think I weld too hot or its the trick mix gas I use.

Greg


----------



## extropic

Looking great.
Are you planning to use the "shelf frame" that the channels create for storage (small sheet stock rack?) or leave it open?


----------



## Firestopper

f350ca said:


> Nice welds !!!  I never get that stack of dimes look, think I weld too hot or its the trick mix gas I use.
> 
> Greg



I too weld hotter than the recommended unless I'm dealing with a loose joint. The trick is in manipulation. Truth be told, I would never use this technique for cert welds. Tri-mix should work but straight CO2 would require a reduction in heat setting. I use a "whip" motion pushing, not dragging with 25/75 shielding gas. Start your puddle, move forward just beyond the said puddle, then return to to create the next covering 40-50% of previous puddle, rinse and repeat keeping a tight arc gap and even puddle width. The Pulse mig is another story altogether that requires setting the arc cone but that machine is awesome. Although these welds turned out fine, I was out of position for most of them and NOT in any comfortable position where I could focus my eyes or prevent some cramping in my neck. Comfort is king for controlling a weld.



extropic said:


> Looking great.
> Are you planning to use the "shelf frame" that the channels create for storage (small sheet stock rack?) or leave it open?



Thanks,
My original plan was to utilize the structure as a shelf, but since I raised it up to allow the use of a PJ, its close to the center portion of the apron bracing. I thought a shelf would be a great place to store unused fingers. I still may do just that. Seem you and I think alike.  

Thanks for the visit and comments, always good.

Spending the day cleaning up the shop today, I have a roll cage job coming in on Wednesday and have somewhat of a disorganized environment at the moment. 

I'm also setting a flag pole in concrete for my 83 year old friend and neighbor down the road. 

Take care fellas,
Paco


----------



## HMF

*Congrats on winning the Project of the Month and $50 prize.*
*

*
*Please select from an Amazon gift card, PayPal, Ebay gift card (fees included), Visa gift card.*


----------



## Firestopper

WOW! 
Thank you very much, not sure how this selection process works but, I'm very humbled to say the least.  So many other folks possess much more talent and knowledge then I ever will.  Thats why I'm here daily or as much as time allows.
 I like to share and post up photos (probably too many pictures) as I lack the writing skills many of you folks possess.  Anyway, thank you all for being members and sharing your knowledge on this priceless site.  I've made friends with folks I'll never meet in person but feel like I know them.
 I have also forged a friendship with Mark (mksj), a friendship I would otherwise never have had without this site and am truly blessed as a result.  I look forward to "growing" that list of friends and if you guys/gals are ever in Tucson, Please reach out so I can put a face to my friend.


Fraternally,
Paco Nieto


----------



## f350ca

Congratulations on the well deserved recognition.

Greg


----------



## FOMOGO

Congrats on the project of the month award. Much deserved.




firestopper said:


> Thanks for checking in. BTW, how's your mill project coming along?



 Got close to finished on the X/Y & knee work. Would have got it done, but do to brain fart, forgot to install the knee screw bearing retainer after placing it specifically where "I couldn't miss it", and had to disassemble again and correct that fubar. Down in PR now doing hurricane cleanup and repair. Got off pretty easy compared to many others. Will do an update on the mill when I get a little time. 
  Nice job on the forklift points. Cheers, Mike


----------



## Firestopper

Thank you Greg and Mike, I appreciate your kind words.

Mike, I feel your pain. Seems I forget more the older I get.
I have a close friend in PR going through similar situation, God speed on your endeavor and stay safe brother.

Paco


----------



## Firestopper

With the last two machining operations on the finger extensions completed, I can officially say they are finally done. It seems like it took a while but when I look at the entire project maybe not so much. I am also happy to report  Mr. Bozo never payed me a visit during the finger project. I don't really consider myself a proficient machinist but I learned a lot on this phase of the rebuild.

Second to last operation was to cut the .125"x 2.5" step for the nose bar and clamp. I took three passes at full depth (.125"). The surface finish was much nicer than the original factory fingers. Used the CNC function to reset to absolute on each finger (14 total).

Used the same 1" 5 flute medium roughing end mill and the same set up to mill +Y (conventional) the wider steps.
First of three passes.


Here's the third and final pass took about  a .500" wide cut.


I purchased this hand de-burring tool a couple of months ago and finally had a chance to try it. It really works nice and leave a decent chamfer.
The trick is to NOT push down as it will bight in. The handle ratchets while turning for an even cut. I highly recommend this tool.


Close up of the chamfered hole, literally took seconds to get this result.


A quick comparison with the only serviceable OEM finger.


The nose bar and clamp fit nice and secure.




The final operation as to break the sharp edge on the nose bar angle. Same setup different end mill. Used a 7/16" cobalt regrind I had. 1200 RPM and 10 IPM dry. I only took .050" off each finger but enough to eliminate the sharp edge.


All done!




So I learned the use a back splash really helps contain those nasty chips. I used a piece of cardboard to control most of them.
I used a face shield as well. Some of them that did hit the floor stuck to the sealer and required scraping with a dust pan. 
Heres a close up of the devils pubic hair hahah!


Seriously, these are nasty!


Spent the rest of the day cleaning and lubing the mill. Back on shift tomorrow so progress will be slower for the next nine days.

Thanks for visiting and Turn and Burn!

Paco


----------



## Firestopper

I focused on the adjusters for the top clamp. These are used like screw jacks that move the entire top clamp forward and aft to adjust for material thickness and bend radius. Located at each end and rear of the machine. They come from Dreis&Krump with hand wheels and should adjust with little effort. The right one would bind when the machine was assembled so I suspected a bent screw. Both cranks where fabricated and not OEM. The right crank was ok but sloppy while the left crank was made from tubing ,angle iron and a round bar and also sloppy. Both where held in place via  roll pin.

The right crank looked better than the left crank, but would bind when rotated.


The left crank was crappy compared to the right, but turned with lite effort, but also had a wobble when rotated.


Disassembled the right jack assembly and confirmed my suspicion of a bent screw shaft.
Luckily, it was only bent on the last section where the crank slid on.


After indicating the screw in the lathe, I cut off the bent section to salvage the remaining shaft.


After facing, a center drilled was used then drilled to 11/16" x 1.250" deep. I also used a 11/16" four flute end mill to create a flat bottom hole. A 3/16"bevel was also turned prior to removing the screw. 
	

		
			
		

		
	



I then took a piece of 1" CR round and turned the for a interference fit +.0015". I also beveled the shoulder for welding.


A small propane torch was used to heat the receiving screw bore to eliminate heavy hammering with the brass hammer.


The new sleeve worked well after fully seated leaving a nice area for a root pass for TIG welding.


Heating for pressing also preheated for TIG welding.


Chucked up and turned for the hand wheel design (in my head). Turned .060" to blend in the weld. The Bevel ensured weld remained with zero porosity. The smaller diameter .775" (stepped) will be matched with the new hand wheels for a good hold. I also did the left screw as it too was bent (not as bad) and the the two will be identical and beefier.


Bothe screws are now running true and more robust than original. The hand wheels will be turned from 3" round aluminum I have in the scrap bin. The will turn a hub and bore to match the profile of the screw shafts. The roll pin or set screw will secure to the larger diameter (welded area) while the smaller diameter will provide added stability. I want the feel of a single piece when turning with zero play when adjusting.
The black sharpie lines are where the welds are for reference. I think this was a good solution for salvaging those screws and can be used for other similar applications. I used a total of 5" of 1" CR to fix these screws and saved a lot of time vs turning new ones.

Here you can see the original (smaller) bent ends to the right of the salvaged screws.


And finally the right jack assembly resting where it will be located. I should have plenty of clearance for the hand wheel once assembled.


That all for today, they had us running last night so running on empty.
Thanks for stopping by.

Paco


----------



## FOMOGO

That's a nice repair. A little Lubriplate or similar, and they will turn real well. I'm waiting to see what you come up with on the wheels. I'm sure they will look good on there. You've put a lot of work in on this, and it will be a great addition to the shop. Cheers, Mike


----------



## Firestopper

HI Mike, 

Thanks, I was really expecting to find the screw FUBAR and prepared to turn a new one (or two), but the way the cast iron bracket supports both ends leaving only the crank end exposed for abuse it worked out. To say this thing was abused by some users during its earlier life would be an understatement, but I'm almost done with the with the major repairs that where obvious to me.  

Life's funny, I'd been looking for a used finger brake for several years with no real luck until this find. A couple of  weeks ago I herd a radio announcement about a large local auction open to the public with a large amount of sheetmetal machines available. Well now those machines are popping up on CL. One guy is selling a 8' power shear ($2500) and a 8' D&K apron brake (2 yrs old) for $2500. Another guy is selling a D&K 6' finger brake for $3500 and appears in nice shape. Oh well....It should work out in the end and I will be familiar with every aspect of this machine.

Hey, is the Lubriplate better than standard molly grease? I'm always looking to learn so educate me brother.

Thanks again for stopping by Mike, and stay safe in PR. At least your not freezing in CO at the moment.

Paco


----------



## FOMOGO

Nothing really special on the Lubriplate, just a good engine assembly, light weight grease that I have a bunch of. I like it as it seems to be less messy than most, and stays put. They make a full line of products including machine and way oils. Definitely enjoying the warm weather. Pretty much 75-82 every day, but in many ways I'd rather be back in the shop. Mike

















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Home > Products > Automotive Lubricants Motor Oils > No. 105 Motor Assembly Grease
*No. 105 Motor Assembly Grease*
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A smooth light-bodied grease that contains a zinc-oxide anti-wear additive made especially for motor assembly and engine rebuilding. This product prevents “dry start.” It provides necessary lubrication during initial startup before the motor oil has circulated, thereby preventing damage from scuffing, scoring, and friction. Protects freshly machined engine parts from rust and corrosion.

Packed in 10 oz. / 284 g plastic tube.

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----------



## Firestopper

Thanks or the information Mike.


----------



## Larry42

Nice project. Impressive band saw. OEM parts always seem expensive. I have a Motion Industries outlet a block away that is very accommodating and can get most things here by noon the next day. Good idea to keep the oilers, can't hurt anything and might preserve all your work. You need to make a brass plate "Rebuilt by xx 2018". I've found that just because something was "Made in a factory" it wasn't necessarily precisely made. I have a $90K German made bore & insert machine that has miss-drilled holes. I also find some poor engineering on equipment making it very difficult to repair. My current rebuild project is a case in point. 9 spindle boring block with bearings pressed into blind holes. No name on it but pretty sure it is Italian.


----------



## Firestopper

Thanks Larry,
I like the brass plate idea, who know where the machine will end up in 50 years haha, I be long gone and playing with past dogs. Some OEM quality or lack of does have me scratching my head, a common occurrence unfortunately.
Are you posting on your current rebuild project?  It always good to see solutions folks come up with.
Paco


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## Firestopper

After shift I had a little time to knock out one of two hand wheel for the top clamp adjuster. As mentioned, I had a scrap piece of 3" aluminum round bar and cut two pieces at 2-5/16". I'm still amazed with the Bahco blade. I've put it though plenty of hard cutting and still cuts like new.



To maintain parallelism for chucking on the lathe, I set up the piece/s on the mill and used a V block and a small parallel against said block. This allows for the round bar to pivot and nest onto the V block resulting in a square setup regardless of my cuts. A light face mill pass cut the end perpendicular to the bar. This side will be pushed against the chuck to face the opposites side resulting in parallel ends with minimal waste of material.


Sure enough he saw cut was slightly off a couple of thou requiring .005" total to clean up.


Chucked up against the face of the chuck and faced off the opposite end. I was turning around 550 RPM and a lite shot of WD-40 gave me a beautiful surface finish.


Rotated the piece and used two 1/2" parallels to space out the piece  for the next operation. I turned down to a diameter of 1.600" x 1.500".
I wanted to have plenty of meat for drilling/tapping a set  screw to secure the wheel to the screw jack. I took several .060" DOC and a final cut of .025" to reach my target size.


I then drilled a .750" hole x 1.500", bored to .776" x 1.500". Used the proximity carriage stop for a consistent bore depth. Man I love that feature.
I then cut a second bore for the larger step on the screw shaft .001" over.
	

		
			
		

		
	



The shaft fit very nice and had a suction cup "pop" when pulled apart. The shaft spun on the hand wheel like a bearing
	

		
			
		

		
	



Cut some chamfers and rotated and re-chucked. Cut another chamfer on the outside edge, then cut a decorative face .080"deep.


Reassembled clamp adjuster to check out any Bozo visits and none where found 


They have a good feel to them too.


I'll turn the second wheel on Tuesday.






Much better looking than the previous hack cranks if I do say so.


When I finish the second wheel, I will mill some flats on the shafts for a set screw, drill/tap the wheels.
I also have another operation that will finish these hand wheels. It requires a rotary set up (which I done own) and a visit to mksj's shop will help.
I see the finished pieces in my minds eye, so I'm stoked.

That all for now and thanks for looking.

Turn and Burn!
Paco


----------



## Firestopper

Had a fair amount of domestic chores today including mowing the grass. I did mange to finish the second wheel in short order. It took just about one hour to complete since the setup and operations where still fresh in my head. Same suction cup fit.




Took me longer to clean up the swarf and service the lathe but a good day overall.
Time to relax with my furry kids for a spell.
Have a great night brethren.
Paco


----------



## Firestopper

After shift this morning I loaded up for the blasters. I'm not as lucky as Greg to have a friend with a big compressor nor do I own a blasting rig.
My friends at Anderson Paint and powder coat had time to knock this out in a couple of hours. They have been my go to for all my RescuExpress carts since 2003 as well as bumpers builds etc. Mr Anderson is 93 years old and is a Iwo Jima survivor, I have a deepest respect for him. He now visits his large facility twice a week as he's really too old to put in a full day. His daughter Janet is the president and they employ 40 or so. They have done work for exotic telescopes in Chili, Missile components for Raytheon and  many other DOD contracts. They always make time for me. Sorry, I felt the need to share a tiny bit of Mr. Anderson's extraordinary story.

Loaded up for the 30 mile trip.


Everything was kept on pallets for easy loading/unloading.Except the main body with the new fork pockets.


A couple of hours later.




I requested copper slag media as it had well over 50 mill of slopped on paint. I didn't want them to spend more time than needed plus I wanted a medium aggressive finish for the hammer tone finish to bite onto.
Something about bare heavy steel make me warm and fuzzy inside.

Some details of the underside.


Makes those new welds pop!




They use a special rubberized tape to protect any machined surface.


Machined surface where one of the adjustment jack screw lives.


All moved in, protected from the harsh Arizona winter .Todays high was 76ºF, just beautiful.


Kidding aside, I'm getting close to paint and that is one of my favorite phases when restoring. I think I have a neat color scheme in mind.

Stay tuned fellas and thanks for stopping by.

Turn and Burn!
Paco


----------



## f350ca

NICE !!!!
Blasting is no fun in warm weather, if I could I'd farm it out too.
Can't wait to see some new paint installed.
Greg


----------



## Firestopper

Thank you Greg,

They have a nice enclosed blasting booth with impressive screw compressors/dryers.
I'm chomping at the bit to get some paint but still have to replace the two struts that where scarfed off. I also want to blend in any areas that are sharp as well as grind off any spatter the factory left back in 77. Getting close tho.
Hope your staying warm amigo.
Take care,
Paco


----------



## extropic

I enjoy seeing your process and progress.
Very nice!
Thanks for posting.


----------



## Firestopper

Thank you extropic.
Yesterday was a milestone/benchmark for that project. I'm gonna have to really push myself now as I have a very high priority project starting next week sometime and will need the floorspace. 
Thanks for being a steadfast visitor, you have always taken the time to stop in and offer input since my earlier days in POTD.
Take care,
Paco


----------



## Silverbullet

YOU MY FRIEND DID A SUPER JOB. Congratulations tons of work and hours of love. They show all the way through tear down and rebuild.


----------



## Firestopper

I paid Mark (mksj) a visit today after work to check out his DRO's as I'm in the market for one soon. He got them set up very nicely and I'm pretty sure I'm set on the DROPROS El 700 touch screen. Thats a cool setup for sure.
Mark was also kind enough to lend me his supper spacer rotary set up and a 1/2" ball nose end mill.

Got home and straight in the shop.  After pulling the vise off the mill I cleaned up the table,T-slots and honed the surface  and set up the rotary. I used the Starrett Last Word to indicate the rotary and penciled a vertical line down the center of one hand wheel for reference as a secondary verification once everything was set up prior to  machining.

Indicating the rear flat surface. Sweeping back and forth until I was good. It was .0005" from right to left.


Chucked up a part and doubled checked with same results on the front side.
Left side:


Right side:


Used a V-block/clamp and 123 blocks on the setup plate ( poor mans surface plate) and a machinist square to pencil in a vertical center line.
As mentioned, this was only for a visual reference after setup and prior to machining.




Once the rotary was set to 0º I drilled/tapped a 5/16-24 setscrews. Prior to rotating 180º for second hole the setscrew was inserted and the jack screw secured. Rotated and drilled second hole just kissing the jack screw leaving a tiny centered divot  for a later operation on the jack screw.






Did this twice then flipped the wheel to profile the circumference with a 1/2" ball mill. The DOC was just enough to match the bevels resulting in a nice grip feel. Rotated 30º increments for 12 cuts. End mill speed was 1200 RPM with a lite squirt of WD-40 with zero burrs.
Rinse and repeat for second wheel.


Used the same setup for the two flats on the jack screws. Since I had a dimple from the second drill hole, I was able to locate the center of the setscrew location. I used a .375 end mill to create a flat then rotated 180º for second flat with no measuring other than DOC for said flat. They lined up perfectly to both hand wheels.


Here you can see the two setscrews in the hub. I sanded the points of the setscrews down flat to 3/16" to hold on the screw jack flats.


The adjustment hand wheels are done.


I also picked up some paint and hope to finish some minor fabrication to replace the struts I cut off sometime back. The new struts will bolt on as the base and main body will be independent and different color.

That all for today fellas. As always, thanks for stopping by and any feedback is always welcomed.

Turn and Burn,
Paco


----------



## Firestopper

Silverbullet said:


> YOU MY FRIEND DID A SUPER JOB. Congratulations tons of work and hours of love. They show all the way through tear down and rebuild.


Thank you Silverbullet,
I have learned a ton and have had a blast. Appreciate you stopping in!
Paco


----------



## FOMOGO

Those came out great. She's going to be a real looker when she's done. Mike


----------



## Firestopper

Thanks Mike, 
A little better than the previous jacked up cranks.


----------



## f350ca

The handles look like jewelry Paco. Nice!
With the new horizontal members you added do you need the struts. Must be very stiff now.

Greg


----------



## Firestopper

Thanks Greg, 
The hand wheels will add a little "bling" to the machine. On the struts, I knew they where there add rigidity to the base, but that makes perfect sense as they are only bolted to the main body at the top and the bottom would essentially "float"without the struts. Sometimes a guys need to step back and re evaluate or better yet, take some damn good advice from smarter folks! Thanks Greg, you just saved me some time. Now I can paint the two color scheme without separating!


----------



## f350ca

Ah not smarter Paco, just anxious to see her properly dressed in a coat of new paint.

Greg


----------



## Firestopper

Today I presses in the new larger bushings in the link adjusters. Went pretty smooth with the press tool I made to remove the old bushings. They where tight but thats a good thing so long as the ID remains intact.

I clamped down the link flat on the set up plate and added a touch of engine assembly lube for good measure.
	

		
			
		

		
	



The pressing operation:


Since the bushing was so large and the HF 20T press is a little sloppy, I would press a little and release and rotate the setup to ensure a square press. Once the bushing was 1/2 in it was a final press to home.


She's home!


Did the second link the same way without drama.
Test fit to the lever cams proved successful. Nice and snug.


Next was to drill the ball oiler hole through the bushings. The machine was equipped with bronze bushing originally and required 30W machine oil to keep the bushings lubed. That said, theres ball oilers already in place. I drilled out the original ball oilers and use the same size drill bit to find center on the new bushing, then went down two sizes to drill through the newly installed Oilite bushing. From Previous conversation It was brought to my attention that an occasional shot of oil would flush out any smaller wear particles out adding life to the bushings. Greg (f350ca) was helpful on this topic, so a thanks goes out to him. I was able to use the super spacer borrowed from Mark (mksj) to chuck and hold the award link.
A second shout out of thanks to Mark for his generosity and trust.


The Oilite bushings are amazing, the simple drilling operation made the bushings sweat oil.
Here you can see the the area of sweating.


Did the second one the same way then used a counter sink to deburr the hole.


Learning that very little heat/friction makes these bushing sweat got me thinking about paint. I usually paint in the sun to pre-warm the steel but this could present a problem if the steel was to become contaminated with oil. So I'll be painting in the shade.
After blowing out the holes and wiping down the link, I masked them for paint.


----------



## Firestopper

Masking went fairly quick with a scalpel and file. I've used this technique for years with good results.



Most scalpels have a tapered handle opposite of the blade. This is handy for pressing in the tape at the joints.


Then just follow the groove with the sharp end and your done. If you keep the overlaps of tape to one the scalpel stays sharp.


For outside corners a small file works well so long as you cut downward.


Pull off the outside portion and done.


Thew together a jig stand from scrap to paint the award links and pivot blocks.


Too windy this afternoon, but first thing in the morning should be calm. My plan is to shoot all moving/adjustable components gloss black as the parts require lubrication. The large levers will also be black as my hands are often dirty when fabricating. The base stand will be a silver hammer tone and the main machine will be a dark brown/copper hammer tone. The counterweights will be bright safety yellow as will be the finger extensions. 
Here is a sample of the brown/copper hammer tone I used on Rockwell/Delta disc-belt sander I restored sometime back. I really like that color for machines. I've had good luck shooting Rustolium hammer tone paint and use Xylene to cut the paint for spraying using a 20+ year old HF HVLP gun.


That all for today guys, Thanks for looking.
Turn and burn!

Paco


----------



## f350ca

Thanks for the file trick.


----------



## Firestopper

Sure thing Greg, makes sort work of masking. Thanks for saving me time and $ on eliminating those struts.


----------



## Firestopper

Got some paint down on a few components. While waiting for paint to dry, I turned and milled two new pivot pins for the apron. I used some aluminum soft jaws on the Kurt vise with a V groove on the fixed jaw to secure the 1" pins.  Milled  a .115" DOC to create a flat for the setscrews.
A short day, I took Mrs. firestopper out to celebrate her birthday.


Much better fit vs the old worn pins.


Main pivot/hinge for the apron leaf.



The links still need the new ball oilers pressed in but for the most part done. Nice and wet with four coats.


The pivot blocks also got a wet coat as did the link nuts.
	

		
			
		

		
	



I'll cook them under a heat lamp tomorrow for a couple of hours. It'll take 7-10 full days for paint to cure. Tomorrow I'll work on removing the pivot block bushings I left in place to protect the bores from sand blasting. I'll turn a pressing tool for this operation. I might have an unconventional way to press out/in the bushings. Stay tuned as it will require some design work, but should work without the use of heat.
Thanks for viewing.

Paco


----------



## Firestopper

Well I attempted to have more done today on the pressing tool but has a coworker stop in asking for help on his 1990 Toyota 4-runner. His front mind seal was leaking pretty bad and he tried everything to break the 18mm harmonic balancer bolt loos with no luck.

I'll start with what I did get done on the press tool.I used 2" round CR cut to 5.500" and indicated on the lathe. Faced and turned two steps. The smaller 1.5" step fits inside the bushing to be presses out  and will also serve to press in the replacement. The 1.5" ensures the tool is lined up during the initial setup. The second step is .065" smaller than the OD of the bushings and 3.5" long to match the length of both bushings. The problem is the bushings are for the pivot block located in the main lower body. The work needs to be done in place


The layout:


Man I love this chuck.


Took .040" DOC at 750 RPM with a feed rate of .009/rev so kind of fast. On the 3.5" long step the chips breaker was not working with the federate producing a continuous chip from start to finish. I made some feed changes and had manageable chips after that.
Look at this accident waiting to happen, a 15'-6" chip!


The surface finish was just pretty as could be for CR, I just couldn't get comfortable with those long razor blades.




Anyway, the tool came out nice. The jack end was bored to fit the the shaft keeping everything lined up.


Here you can see how the bushing will  be pushed against the longer stepped shoulder. 
	

		
			
		

		
	



And lastly the bushings on main body with the tool inserted.


So by now its clear that a solid object will be required for the jack to anchor to. The forklift will be the anchor or aka potable press.

So back to the Toyota, I tried every trick I could think of to break that darn 18mm bolt including heat. Breaker bar against the passenger side frame and stater bump (coil wire disconnected) My big A$$ impact with 130 PSI set on #5 for max. Nothing was working including a 48" cheater on a 3/4" breaker bar. It seemed we where just turning the engine, Yes, it was in gear and e-brake set, but the darn crank was rotating. Then the light bulb went off in my minds eye. I needed to restrain this damn thing and I remembered I had some aircraft cable left over from hanging the shop ductwork. I also had three cable clamps. I threaded the cable through the harmonic balancer and around the passengers side frame three times. Using two clamps on the bottom and one on the top three layers. Grabbed the 48" cheater and pulled, I thought The bolt head had broke but it was the bolt breaking loose. The owner had been spraying penetrating oil for the past week but the large built in washer prevented a direct shot.
I wanted to share the set up with anyone interested incase you find yourself in the same bind. It worked well and the front seal and oil pump O- ring replaced.
Looking from the top.


Bottom view. No way the crank can turn CCW allowing the bolt to be removed.




Thats all for now fellas, thanks for viewing.
New machine arrives tomorrow, I'm so excited, don't think I'll sleep a wink tonight.


Turn and Burn,

Paco


----------



## extropic

Nice job (on EVERYTHING !!).  

I'll remember that lashing the balancer.


----------



## Firestopper

Thank you extropic, 
Lashing is the word I needed for a better description. Restrained sounds better in my EMS reports when I have a combative patient but Lashing sounds way cooler for this application. My bosses would s**t if I used "lashed the unruly patient" but as a short timer I might need to try it hahaha!
As always, good feedback is always welcomed.
Be well,
Paco


----------



## f350ca

Great idea Paco, will store that one.
Nice to see the underside of a vehicle that hasn't been salted. They never stay that pretty up hear.
If the forklift doesn't support the jack, I've used a threaded rod to pull the guide. A piece of pipe large enough for the bushing to go into and a plate over the end works to extract it.
Getting close to the final paint.

Greg


----------



## Firestopper

Hi Greg,

I was at my limits on that 18mm bolt man, It worked out in the end. Yeah, vehicles last a long time in this desert climate. Here in Tucson we have the worlds largest military aircraft boneyard. Many of them can return to service in under a week while others are cannibalized for parts, all due to the climate.
So I tried the pressing tool but all I achieved was pushing the machine. I guess those babies are tighter than hell. I have one more trick up my sleeve but I like your suggestion on the all thread. I do have some 3/8" and 3/4" on hand.

This is the backer for the jack. It has four jackscrews for fine tuning the alignment. The fork lift has tilt, side shift and obviously up/down so I can match the levels on both machine and forks. I have large bollard  at the main door to keep the building from damage. They are set 36" deep with close to 700 pounds of concrete plus filled and a apron with rebar poured after setting them. I'm thinking I could set the machine next to the ballard with a 4x4 between the machine and bollard to prevent pushing while pressing from the opposite end.
Ran out of time today and back on shift tomorrow so Saturday will be the day.

The angle iron backer for the 4 ton bottle jack.


Stayed pretty square after welding the gusset.


Here you can see the four 5/16-18 threaded holes for the jackscrews.


The set up. Notice the the top jackscrews used to fine tune the alignment. I will use a short piece of flat bar to reduce the point load on the jacks flange.


A view from a far. The jack was pushing the machine with every pump. I really thought the machine was heavy enough to perform this task, but live and learn. Those bushings are 3.5" long and tight. Used the two levels to match up the setup.


This is the bollard (anchor) I plan on using. 6" schedule 40, I can put a torpedo level on it while pressing to see if it starts to deflect.


Please feel free to opine. Plan C will be what Greg suggested, but I'll need to re-chuck the press too to thread for the rod.

Thanks guys.

Paco


----------



## f350ca

They must be tight.
Coming up against the bollard should stiffen things up. I've often split old bushings with a reciprocating saw to ease getting them out. Especially in blind or stepped holes where they wouldn't go through.


Greg


----------



## extropic

Another option. Place a length of heavy bar, beam or tube stock across the forks and behind the jack backer. Tie (lash??) the brake to the beam with 2 come-alongs or chain.

That structure w/fork pockets sure looks nice.


----------



## Firestopper

Both excellent suggestions, thank you. Back on shift today so things will slow down again in the shop until my nest break. 

"That structure w/fork pockets sure looks nice." 
You mean the one that doesn't require struts   Thank you.

Had a setback that requires my driving to CA sometime before the tenth of the month. It seems your rolling the dice when you hire a trucking outfit to transport a machine less than 500 miles. I'll keep it short as some of you might have seen my frustrating post last night under"off topic".
I will be returning the new machine that sustained heavy paint damage from lack of caring on the truckers part. I will be swapping out for a pristine sister and handle the transfer myself. Yesterday was a long day as the driver was was suppose to be in Tucson (from Phx) in the morning but I have a feeling he has a GF in Phx and wanted to stay and play. He showed up all dolled up and smelled like a french whore for someone who was "waiting all day in Phx to have his first offload". He tried to use that excuse at 14:30 when he tried to reschedule for today. When I got firm with him He headed down my way. Imagine that!. 
Anyway, heres the new beast. You can imagine the temptation to unwrap and take a look but she will have to stay covered up in film for return.
Shipping weight is 3700lbs. The Hyster took it like a champ but I sure could feel the load once I started rolling.




At least three areas on the back splash.






Paint damage as a result from poor bungee technique and HF tarp. Real trucking tarps have sewn in S-hooks straps that prevent this. Totally preventable if only he cared an ounce. 
You fellas have a nice day and we'll talk again on Saturday when the tight bushings are out .

Paco


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## FOMOGO

Bummer about the damage. You could try some dry ice from the supermarket on the bushings. They should shrink more, and sooner than the casting, and may just come out by hand. Mike


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## Firestopper

Hi Mike,
I was planning on freezing the new bushings prior to pressing but never considered dry ice for shrinking the old bushings, good call.
Thanks.
Take it easy, but take it!
Paco


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## Firestopper

Yesterday after servicing the trailer,  I tried the bollard set up only to fail yet again. This time the fork lift was moving with every pump of the bottle jack despite the brake set,tires chocked and heat applied to the large boss. The bollard was steadfast. Unbelievable for my pee brain to comprehend how a bushing can be so tight. 
I re-indicated the the press tool to damn near zero TIR in the bison since I will drill bore and thread for a 3/4-10. I'm going with Greg's (f350ca) recommendation or plan "C". This will include a pipe of larger ID to allow the bushing to pass through from the outside (tool on the inside). The pipe will have a solid thick plate welded on one end with a threaded hole in the center to draw the tool through the bore and push the bushing out.
Bushing installation will also have to be from the inside as well, but they will be frozen prior. This process has by far been the most challenging for me. Despite the failed attempts, I have learned how *not* to approach pressing out a medium sized bushing in place. The press tool design will still work (hopefully) with only a threaded bore added, but that's only half of the tool required as the sleeve is equally important. This design is much better in theory as everything should stay aligned so long as the machining is done correctly. 

Question: instead of threading the hole on the endplate (pipe sleeve) should I use a nut instead to draw out the tool out without rotation. I'm anticipating that if the tool rotates with every turn it could chew up the end of the bushing where the tool contacts resulting in deformation. I could machine a bushing to act as a thrust type bearing where the large nut contacts the endplate. What say you smart fellas.
I appreciate your assistance with my learning curve.
Stay safe,
Paco


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## f350ca

Those bushings must be some tight. What you've done should have worked. For the threaded puller use a nut. If its available fine thread rod might give you a little extra pull as well, may even need to go with grade 8 rod. I'd be tempted to simply drill through your arbour and use a nut on both ends.
If it doesn't come easy try splitting the bushing with a reciprocating saw or hack saw threaded through the hole.
Safe journey.

Greg


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## Firestopper

Ok,

Thank you Greg,
I'll have to purchase a 3/4-16 rod. The 3/4-10 I have is grade 5. As far as drilling through the arbor, I don't have a long drill bit that size, the arbor  is over six inches long. I imagine threading 1.5" deep should withstand the pull, but then again this phase has kicked my a$$ 2 X.
I have several saw options for splitting the old bushings, but still need to press the new ones. I'm getting a bit concerned, funny how what should be simple compared to other more complex work performed turns out to be the hardest.

Thanks for sharing your experience Greg, Thats what make this site so special to me
Enjoy your day.
Paco


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## extropic

I think the threaded rod approach is going to be successful.
A hollow plunger hydraulic cylinder would be a nice to add to your (I assume you have) Porta-Power gear and would make replacing those bushings very simple. The cylinders are pricey new but can be found for much less from the usual used tool sources. You'll find one useful when it's better to pull than to push.

Hollow Plunger Cylinders


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## Firestopper

Hi extropic,
The treaded press make good sense especially in keeping things aligned. No Porta-Power gear, but have used in the past. Very handy tool indeed. 
I gotta say though, I'm very impressed on how tight these bushings are. Gonna keep an eye out for a preowned porta-power set.
Thanks for the input.


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## Firestopper

Well brethren, I'm pleased to report that the two stubborn bushings are out. Those things fought me all the way out and required some heat on the right's inside boss. I had a section of 3/4-10 all thread on hand, but after experiencing two failed attempts I took Greg's (f350ca) advice and purchased 3' of B7 3/4-16 plain, hardened washer and grade 8 high hex nut. I learned that threaded rod does not come in the same grades as bolts like grade 2,5,and 8. They have their own grade schedule , B7 rod is between a grade 5 and 8 in a bolt.
The good part of the story (besides getting those bushings out) is the original arbor or press tool was still employed with only a 2" deep threaded hole added for the rod to secure to. The second part of the tool was a section of 2.5" pipe sch.40 x  3.75" long faced off at both ends and the inside weld seem taken down 1/2" from one end. A piece of left over .750" CR  bar was cut and used as an end plate.



After drilling the 1/2" hole on the endplate, I was hesitant to chuck up the holding bolt directly into the Bison so I split a small section of copper tubing to protect the jaws.


Indicated as close as possible and center drilled the bolt head to turn the square material between centers.
Here you can see the copper protecting the chuck jaws.


I saved the facing for later as I knew the setup was less than ideal. Turning between centers I took .060-.080" DOC until I had a round profile.
Then dialed in the OD of the pipe.I used a cheap live center for this operation as I had pretty good pressure securing the setup.



Once I had the OD, I took the setup apart and removed the 1/2" bolt. Re chucked, face what will be the inside and turned a shoulder to fit the ID of the pipe. I used a 1/2" bolt (hole)  knowing that the possibility of the hole would be slightly off center with the turning method I used. I needed this tool to have a perfect centered pull when used. This allowed me to bore the hole to final diameter  after the end cap was welded to the pipe.
Here you can see the area or the inner weld seem that was relieved for the cap to fit.


No way the .750" thick cap will deflect under pressure.




Tacked three 1/2"-3/4" (autogenous) with the TIG. For those who might not know, Autogenous is simply using heat with no filler rod. For this application, only enough weld to secure the end cap for final facing and boring.
Re indicated and faced the outside, then bored to final diameter.


Having used similar setup in the past, I knew the center hole would be slightly off but once bored to final diameter, everything was true.


After de-burring the outside the piece was flipped and a large drill was used to reach for de-burr/chamfer the inside.
200 rpm and done by feel.


Ready for use!


The arbor is now used from the inside and pipe sleeve on the outside to "draw out the bushings.
The set up: Inside


Outside.


Overall.


A liberal amount of anti-seize was applied on the threads to prevent galling.
BAM! Success!
I will *never underestimate* the removal of bushings again. I think installation will go well with the use of dry ice as Mike (FOMOGO) suggested. I have froze bearing races in the past prior to pressing with success but will defiantly use this to press in the new bushing
These are the old bushings, the tool worked very well without damage to said bushings.


Thanks for all the tips and tricks guys. I should have invested the time in building this tool from the get go. I'm always learning new lessons.
Turn and burn!
Thanks for stooping by,
Paco


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## f350ca

They put up a good fight but in the end you won.
Nice job on the puller.
Didn't realize they graded threaded rod diferently.

Greg


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## Firestopper

Thanks Greg, Your input was/is appreciated. Yeah, I always learn something new or relearn things I forgotten hahaha.
Paco


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## Firestopper

Spent a couple of hours prepping for paint. I hit most weldments with a 2" roll-loc 50 grit to knock off the large weld spatter left from the manufacturer. The appearance of the large weld beads, it clear they used a dual shield process resulting heavy spattering. I do the same thing on chassis when restoring a classic car. It really dolls up the frame after painting. I also hit any visible nicks from years of "kisses". The last dressing was done on the top clamp finger bar. This area is where the finger clamps bolt to. I plan on masking this prior to paint, otherwise chipping and flaking will result any time the fingers are slid and reclaimed.

After blasting took off layers of brushed on paint, I could not repaint without removing all those BB's. I also removed the burrs on the bores.


The inside was especially bad. You can still see some spatter in the overhead corner.


The edges where also sanded to soften them up. This will prevent chipping later.




This is the top clamp apron finger clamp bar (say that fast three times). This was heavily dinged up from years of clamping fingers.
No paint will be applied from the weld toe out. The edge required rework with the roll-loc to bring the corners back.


More cleaning on the top.




The hammer tone paint should blend in well in the end. Next up is to remove the ball oilers. I use from ear plugs to mask off any setscrew, ball oiler hole for painting. Last of the hot work will be to weld large nuts on the lower base for leveling bolts, then wait for a calm day to shoot some paint. I think I'll install the bushing prior to paint as well. Gonna shop for dry ice tomorrow.

Thanks for looking,
Paco


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## Firestopper

Picked up a 2 pound block of dry ice and chilled the four bushings for the main body. While chilling, I pulled the old ball oilers on the apron pivots  and cleaned out the oil galleys. Also installed new ball oilers on the link adjusters and completed the last of the hot work prior to paint. Eight 5/8" nuts where welded to the base plate for leveling the machine.

The chill.


Used a small punch to drive out the ball, then tapped to 10-32.




Used a 3/8" nut as a spacer along with a washer to use the setup to pull the oilers.
	

		
			
		

		
	



With just a few turns, the oilers where pulled free.


The holes where cleaned out in preparation for the bushing install.
Used the same tool to drive in the new bushings. I failed to get a temp but they where cold and went in with light tapping.


I then used a 5/16" drill bit (same size as the oil hole to mark the center on the bushing. Used a 1/8" drill bit for the oil galley for future flushing.
A ball oiler will be installed after paint.


The new pivot pins fit nicely as do the larger pivot blocks.



Inside view of the left pivot block. A large washer then a snap ring will secure it from pulling out.


On the link adjusters, I used a counter bore to establish a landing for the new ball oilers.
!/4" hole before counter boring.


Used a cordless drill to create the flat landing for the oilers.


After:


I found these oilers on line from a John Deere supply guy on eBay. Only needed two this size but the deal was for 10.
They come with felt wicks that titrate the oil. I thought this was a cool idea.


Loaded the wicks in and used a small 8mm socket to tap in the oilers flat to the landings.



Looks good. These links never came with ball oilers originally. The original bushings where bronze and required 30W machine oil prior to using the machine. Obviously not always used as the old bushings where badly worn and sloppy.
The new Oilite bushings don't require oiling but this should keep wear particles flushed out preserving the bushings service span.


Lastly, the eight base plate holes where enlarged to 5/8" and nuts welded to serve as leveling feet.


This section is ready for paint.


I want to acknowledge the members whom help out with different ideas on removing/installing the stubborn bushings as well as the oil flush idea.
Thanks for your help guys. 

Thanks to all who visit and leave feedback as well, my goal is to learn and grow every day.

Turn and burn!

Paco


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## Firestopper

I had to modify a roll cage job I did some time back. The gentleman had removed the doors when he brought his "77" FJ 40 to have the roll cage installed resulting in the door/s conflicting by about 3/16". This ate up about 1/2 the day leaving only a couple of hours to work on the brake as I had to mow the lawn as well. 

More evidence of past abuse:
The cast iron top clamp levers had been repaired at some point in its life. Both where broken in different areas and brazed back together. It's apparent they used mild steel flat bar to repair the levers leaving a rough transition at the brazed joint. I ground down as much as I could to feather the transition but the areas needed some filler. 

The right lever was repaired near the base of the link connection. The flat bar they used to replace the cast iron lever/handle was made from two pieces of 1/2" thick bar stock and welded down the middle on both sides. These handles originally all cast iron have a large counter weight (cast in one piece) to assist in rotation while lifting the heavy top clamp.


The second lever (left side) was repaired closer to the middle about where the counter weight would be.


Some filler was used to fill in the low areas for a smoother transition. Here you notice the right lever has a repaired ear as well (far right) at the link connection.


Sanded and ready for prime and paint. You can see the weld seam (right) down the middle (side) where the two pieces of flat bar where joined to make one thicker lever. 


Masked, primed and painted. I choose black to hide paw prints and to match the rest of the link, pivot assembly already black.


A short day, but every little bit I get done gets me closer to completion.

Thanks for stopping by.

Paco


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## f350ca

That poor machine has had a life if hard knocks. Its going to seam like a holiday in your shop.

Greg


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## Firestopper

Yes it has Greg and it will have an easy life by comparison in its new home. Can you imagine what it must have taken to snap those cast iron levers, Whoa!! freaking savage animals.

Paco


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## extropic

firestopper said:


> Yes it has Greg and it will have an easy life by comparison in its new home. Can you imagine what it must have taken to snap those cast iron levers, Whoa!! freaking savage animals.
> 
> Paco



^^ x2 ^^ Can you imagine being the co-worker or supervisor of someone who broke those levers? Hazardous duty pay would be appropriate.

Just wondering about those missing counterweights. Have you asked D&K about the availability/cost of OEM replacements? Would you be comfortable adding fabricated counterweights and relying on those brazed repairs to survive? Another option would be to fabricate complete levers/counterweights from steel. Or, do you plan to do without the counterweights?. Just curious.


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## Firestopper

extropic said:


> ^^ x2 ^^ Can you imagine being the co-worker or supervisor of someone who broke those levers? Hazardous duty pay would be appropriate.
> 
> Just wondering about those missing counterweights. Have you asked D&K about the availability/cost of OEM replacements? Would you be comfortable adding fabricated counterweights and relying on those brazed repairs to survive? Another option would be to fabricate complete levers/counterweights from steel. Or, do you plan to do without the counterweights?. Just curious.




Hi extropic,
I had noticed this when I first began working on this machine prior to teardown. It takes more effort to open the top clamp without the counter weights but not as much as one would think. I could add some weight since the brazed bar is steel if I find it problematic. New levers would cost me more than I have into everything. D&K have stupid expensive prices.
As far as the brazed joints, although rough looking prior to feathering, It appears whom ever repaired them did bevel the hell out of the joint as they are plenty wide and should be fine to clamp/unclamp the heavy top clamp. Fabricating would be a feat for me but possible. I think I'll try them out once done to determine if I need new ones or add counter weight.  I feel if the brake is not used as a vice, they should be fine. The clamping force is only enough to prevent the sheet from slipping when bending and if even clamping is achieved via link adjusters, then lite clamping is only required to prevent slippage. Its a feel that one gets used to. I have learned this from using the 8' apron brake over the past 15+ years. Too much pressure and your piece will be grooved at the clamp site especially on aluminum. Brakes require some learning to use properly, especially with bending allowances when trying to bend an exact fit. This machine will never exceed 14 ga steel ,10 ga in aluminum  and 18ga in SS like it was designed to handle. I will use the iron worker for thick narrower bar stock. Something that was never practiced by previous users. I won't give them credit by referring them as "operators".
As always, your comments/observations are appreciated and welcomed. You have shared valuable insight on many fronts and for that I'm thankful.

Been raining for two days now and driving me nuts. At lest its a gentle rain and I turned off the lawn sprinklers.
Take care extropic


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## hman

firestopper said:


> My friends at Anderson Paint and powder coat had time to knock this out in a couple of hours. They have been my go to for all my RescuExpress carts since 2003 as well as bumpers builds etc. Mr Anderson is 93 years old and is a Iwo Jima survivor, I have a deepest respect for him. He now visits his large facility twice a week as he's really too old to put in a full day. His daughter Janet is the president and they employ 40 or so. They have done work for exotic telescopes in Chili, Missile components for Raytheon and  many other DOD contracts. They always make time for me. Sorry, I felt the need to share a tiny bit of Mr. Anderson's extraordinary story.


First off, sorry to be so late replying.  My better half and I have been super busy moving two large households into one (smaller) house (OK, it has a great shop!), and I've sadly neglected much of the forum.

That said, Paco, I appreciate your telling us about Mr. Anderson.  Not may of those wonderful old folks left any more, and I have the utmost respect for them.  Best to you, as well as to the Anderson family.

Meanwhile, congratulations on what's turning out to be a fantastic restoration.  But then ... I think we've all come to expect this kind of quality and fine detail from you.


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## Firestopper

hman said:


> First off, sorry to be so late replying.  My better half and I have been super busy moving two large households into one (smaller) house (OK, it has a great shop!), and I've sadly neglected much of the forum.
> 
> That said, Paco, I appreciate your telling us about Mr. Anderson.  Not may of those wonderful old folks left any more, and I have the utmost respect for them.  Best to you, as well as to the Anderson family.
> 
> Meanwhile, congratulations on what's turning out to be a fantastic restoration.  But then ... I think we've all come to expect this kind of quality and fine detail from you.



Hi John,
Moving can be stressful if your rushed. Glad things are working out for you and congratulations on the shop upgrade. 

Any time I think of guys like Mr. Anderson my heart feels heavy and eyes sweat (like now) but I'm so luck to have had the pleasure of meeting many veterans both on the job, caring for them in the back of medic rig and off the job hanging out. I once treated sailor that survived the horrific sinking of the USS Indianapolis. He described the shark attacks that followed. Later that same shift, I treated/attended a Tank crewmen that was in the Battle of the Bulge and met Patton. My younger partner at the time (not a veteran) realized why I pulled rank on him insisting I attend/treat and he drive us to the ER. I wanted the the opportunity to talk with these special men and thank them for what they endured for us. Years later at a different firehouse, I met and treated a strikingly handsome African-American senior with green eyes that turned out to be a  Tuskegee airman stationed in Italy. I have met many veterans over the years but these four men including Mr Anderson really made an impact on me as an adult. My HS machine shop teacher (Mr. Bishop) was a tail gunner on a B-17 Flying Fortress over Europe. Besides my supportive  family, Mr. Bishop (RIP) gets a lot of credit for shaping me into who I am. Oh, I can't forget Mr.White, my fifth grade teacher who was a hunchbacked man from shrapnel left in his back who had no difficulties whipping my ass often. I was a very bad student early on but I never disrespected my elders. It safe to say, in my case that vocational education and the men who taught saved my life leading me into a career paths that have been more than satisfying, challenging and rewarding. I am truly blessed to have had the honor and privilege of meeting these special humans.  I often ponder, if I was born 10 to 15 years later, I would have been prescribed Ritalin vs good old fashioned discipline and mentorship. Who would I be? Probably dead long ago. I'm still hyper as hell but use the energy to be productive, hell my four German shedders can't keep up with me on long fast walks. Last but most important is my wife of 30 years and our son, they have helped me grow in ways I never could imagine. 
Sorry, for the long reply,my heart is controlling my fingers again.

On the restoration, Thanks for the kind words John. I really try hard to do things right and learn every step of the way. At times I go too far, but thats me putting my signature on the work. I'm glad you follow along and appreciate you feedback.

Enjoy your weekend and carful with your back, just the notion of moving makes my back hurt.

Paco


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## Firestopper

Got the lower stand shot with silver hammer tone before the wind kicked up. 




I love spring time but the wind, "blows"(pun intended).

Paco


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## extropic

I'm jones'n for an update here Paco.


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## Firestopper

Hahaha, trust me man, I'm trying. With the wind blowing and now nursing some severely bruised ribs from a nasty fall last week. I start my six day break tomorrow morning, so I'm hoping to get some paint laid down. I broke the same ribs a few years ago at a fire and never took time off but this time around they seem to really hurt more. Yesterday, I pulled off the 8" 3-jaw chuck in hopes of turning the register on the new backplate, leaning over to pull that hunk of steel off about killed me in pain. I threw in the towel all day yesterday, getting too damn old for this game. 
If the weather cooperates, you'll (We'll) get your fix.


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## f350ca

this getting old isn't for the faint of heart. Nursed a sore back all last week.

Greg


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## Firestopper

I hear ya Greg, 
The harder we play the more we pay. Feel better.

Paco


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## extropic

I thought it might be an injury that was holding you up. Not too many other factors are likely to.

I plan to rig a light duty hoist over my lathe (only a 12" swing) to make those chuck changes 'no sweat'.
The trick is to include a spring loaded "link" between the hook and the load so, with less than 20lbs of manual force, I can manipulate and guide the load with precision. If my explanation isn't clear, imagine using an appropriately sized fish scale between the hook and the load.
With a lathe like yours, you might have a work piece heavy enough where a hoist would be nice, even necessary.

Heal well and quickly. The brake is not going anywhere.

Edit: wrong 'break'.


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## hman

Get better first, Paco (and you, too, Greg)!  Take good care of yourselves.  We can wait.


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## Firestopper

Well its official, I can create wind by simply mixing paint . The early morning was calm as could be with temps around 70º and rising. Set up the "paint booth", still calm, mixed the paint for spraying and the wind starts up hahahah.

Got the bottom and top clamp shot.



Laid down about four medium wet coats. Used Xylene to cut the hammer tone (Rust-o-lium) for spraying.




The top clamp (leaf).


Moved indoors to keep the bugs and birds off.
Reassembled the adjusters. Used some Lubriplate recommend by Mike (FOMOGO). Turns out I had a small tube of the white grease in the grease /RTV drawer.


installed the new pins and bending apron pivots.


The top clamp in position. I'll wait a few days to allow for complete curing before setting in place.


I had tried to buy a new data plate from D&K but they flat-out refused to sell me a new tag. I offered to send them the original, but no go. The 41 year old tag was used. I suppose it gives the machine some character.


Threw in the towel for the day. Darn ribs are still sore.
Thanks for looking. 

Paco


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## f350ca

Wow ! Looks great Paco. Like the colour.
Im sand blasting tomorrow, want to drop over and shoot the paint for me.
Painting is probably like snow blowing, as soon as I start the tractor the wind picks up and blows it back on me.

Greg


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## Firestopper

Hey Greg,
I used the same color on the Rockwell/Delta disc/belt restoration last year. The color hides the dirty paw prints pretty well and seems to be durable.
Been using a 20+ year old HF HVLP gravity gun with pretty good results. Once upon a time I only used higher end spray guns but those where my silly years hahah.  I would shoot for you in a heartbeat just to play in your world for a while and learn some.

Paco


----------



## rwm

Send those guys at D&K some of these pics!
Robert


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## Firestopper

rwm said:


> Send those guys at D&K some of these pics!
> Robert



Hi Robert,

Dealing with Chicago D&K has been a bag of mixed feelings. The only friendly person is Mona the lady that takes your money. The couple of times I spoke with the head parts guy, he made me feel like I was a bother. His exact words when I asked about purchasing a new data plate was "forget it, we don't reissue serial numbers period". Yea, I don't think I'll be sharing anything with them.

Paco


----------



## rwm

Your re-build looks so professional in these photos and displays so much talent I was kind of thinking they would regret not helping you. Some of the old timers there must respect the restoration of this old iron. Well, at least we all get it.
But I agree, the old tag gives it nice character and provenance.
R


----------



## extropic

^^ Exactly, what rwm wrote, the original data plate is provenance. No problem.
Your rebuild gives the brake a whole new lease on life. The old plate proves it.
A pleasure to watch.

BTW, each time I see a picture of your base enhancements w/ fork pockets (especially on the FL), I like the setup even more.
Very simple but perfect for safely moving the brake.


----------



## Firestopper

Thanks Robert and extropic,
Its been a lot of fun restoring this machine. The fork pockets have proven to be invaluable. When I first had to move the break it was very top heavy and unstable with limited ways of picking. Now its safe and easy to move with the fork lift or pallet jack. 

Paco


----------



## Firestopper

Assembles the top clamp and associated pivot links, blocks and levers. 
The right adjusting jack is difficult to turn by hand. After closer inspection it still had a slight wobble when rotated.
The bow results in binding against the top of the bracket or trying to jack up the heavy top clamp. It doesn't take much of a bow to result in binding, just a few thou.  A minor setback, but I'll just turn two new jack screws. I should be able to block the top clamp in place to disassemble and replace the adjusting screws. 

Right end.


Left end. 


The ball oiler where painted orange to enhance the lubrication points. The same will be done to the lower apron pivots (lower left in photo).


So as it goes, this old machine is still "schooling" me along. Nothing has been simple but has proven rewarding.

No shop time today,  I will enjoy, reflect and count my many blessings on this special Sunday.

Happy Easter,

Paco


----------

