# Considering Selling My Lathe Would Like Opinions Please.



## Strtspdlx (Apr 20, 2015)

Well I have a th54 and for the most part it will swing every thing I've tried to date. Would I like extra room. Of course. Would I like a QCGB. Of course. I'm considering purchasing an atlas 12" model lathe. A friend has forsale I have to go look at it and make him an offer or see what he wants for it. But is it really worth purchasing another lathe just to have an extra 2"?  I do not know anything other then it's definitely a 12" lathe not sure about QCGB or qctp or anything else. It has been stored in a reefer trailer for 10+ yrs. it was his fathers and he passed it onto him recently. Of course he has no interest. I'm just not sure if it's worth shelling out money to go up 2" and how much it could even be worth. If anyone has any pointers please advise.


Regards-Carlo


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## Uglydog (Apr 20, 2015)

Capacity seems to grow projects which exceed the limits of the machine you have. If you have the space, cash, and can power, and move it safely. Sounds like a done deal. I've never used anything but a QCGB. But, from what I understand it's nothing more than an opportunity to learn more. Same with QCTP. 

Value? I've no idea. Prices always seem to be locally driven. 

Wear your safety glasses, short sleeves, and count your fingers before you turn out the light! Bigger machines are also more powerful.
Please keep us posted.

Daryl
MN


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 20, 2015)

I will keep everyone posted. I try to be safety oriented when doing anything. Lack of experience tends to be my major flaw though. I'm hoping this lathe is 3phase powered so I have an excuse to by a converter so when I buy a mill I already have it. But come Friday I'll know if it's even a possibility or not 


Regards-Carlo


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## Uglydog (Apr 20, 2015)

People here will help you figure out the electrical, if you have enough amps available. 
As far as experiecne near as I can tell none of us have enough.

Carlo, we are all in this together. 

Daryl
MN


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## Chipper5783 (Apr 20, 2015)

Like Daryl said.

A 12" swing lathe is a *lot* more machine than a 10" swing lathe.  It is still not a "big" machine.  I think you would find it very handy.  You will have more rigidity, more scope for fitting in odd ball jobs.  It will still be light enough and small enough that it won't be a huge chore to move around (perhaps with a couple buddies, small pickup truck) - not like you'll be moving it on a regular basis.

Regardless of the power, you'll have no problem (it is a 12" Atlas, you are not talking about loads of power).  I agree with you on hoping it is 3 phase.

Have a good look around for the various bits and pieces (all the pieces of whatever attachement, specialty wrenches, the second set of jaws).  I can't count the hours I've spent searching for, or making the rest of the pieces to complete some aspect of one of my machine.

It sounds like you are not completely brand new to this game, so you should be okay.  The usual disclaimers apply - if it is a wreck, consider your time and $$ resources (and whether you want a machine to address your other projects, or are you like many of us here that aquire yet another project machine because the half dozen waiting in the que leaves you feeling like you just don't have enough to do!).  Don't worry if it is a little rusty (usually they will clean up well).

Take care and have fun.  Please keep us informed (with pictures too).

David


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## wa5cab (Apr 21, 2015)

A 12" lathe is about the largest machine you can have where you won't wish sometimes that you also had a 6" for the very small jobs.  However, a fair price, besides depending upon what part of the country you are in, depends upon what model Atlas 12" it is.  Between 1936 and 1981, Atlas made and Sears and then Atlas and Sears sold a total of at least 76 different models of the 12" alone, not counting the Metric ones.  So whether it would be a good idea (assuming that you can afford it regardless of what it is) to switch depends greatly upon what model it is.

Unless his father had it in a commercial shop, the odds are greatly against it having a 3-phase motor.  It is anywhere from moderately difficult even if cost is not object to impossible (depending upon where you live) to get 3-phase in a residence in this country.  And the availability of affordable static converters wasn't good during most of the years that Atlas built lathes.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 21, 2015)

His father didn't use it commercially. They restore tractors as a hobby and occasionally they needed a part that wasn't so easily acquired. Which is why he bought this lathe. His original shop that the machine was in had three phase which is why I'm hoping it is still fitted with three phase. His father is like all of us. Has a ton of projects and buys any tool he can afford to use it. He purchased it used and because of a previous injury he's been unable to do a lot of the things he used too. They usually take care of all their stuff and my buddy doesn't want it as he already has a lathe. I vaguely remember seeing it in years past but hopefully this weekend I'll get out there to take a good look at it. We'll see how it goes. 


Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (Apr 21, 2015)

OK.  I understand your reasoning on the 3-phase.  Post the model number when you know it.  Some of the 12" machines would be a step up from a TH54 and some would be larger but poorer in some other regards.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 22, 2015)

wa5cab said:


> OK.  I understand your reasoning on the 3-phase.  Post the model number when you know it.  Some of the 12" machines would be a step up from a TH54 and some would be larger but poorer in some other regards.


Is there a specific model I should be looking for in those regards?  If I'm going to
Purchase something id rather it be a step up. If I'm not getting better it's of no use to
Me. 


Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (Apr 22, 2015)

I'm not certain that your use of "Atlas" in "Atlas 12 inch" is literal (it has an Atlas badge) or generic (it was made by Atlas but could be a Craftsman badged unit).

Well, any model number 101.07402 or lower will have a 5/8" diameter lead screw and no power cross feed.  Any model number 101.07383 or lower will have babbit bearings.  Any model number 101.07363 or lower will not have back gears.  Any model number ending in 00 or 01 will use the early version change gears with the 3/8" long hubs.  Any model number ending in 02 or 03 and full number 101.07403 or later will use the "A"-suffix gears, same as in your TH54.  101.27430 and 101.27440 will have a QCGB but are otherwise the same as 101.07403.  All model numbers 101.27440 and lower have 3/8" beds, same as or substantially the same as your TH54.  A 101.07402 can be turned into a 101.07403 by swapping the carriage and lead screw.  The carriage on your TH54 is the same as the one on the 101.07403 but I don't know whether the 10" or the 12" has the longer lead screw.  In the case that the 12" is a 101.07402 and you buy it and swap the carriages (and do whatever is necessary with the lead screws), the 10" would become a 1054T, which is a Timken bearing 10D.

Any model number greater than 101.27440 will have a 1/2" bed and, bed length and condition being acceptable, will be a step up from the TH54.  Any Atlas built 12" that actually has an Atlas badge will have a 1/2" bed and is a step up from a TH-54.  The latter group all have 4-digit model numbers beginning with "39".  The best models for it to turn out to be would be either 3996 or 101.28990.  These are the same and are 12x36 cabinet models.

My wife just announced dinner is ready to that's it for the speculation for now.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 22, 2015)

Awesome information!!!!! In glad you took the time to explain that as more or less those were my concerns. 


Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (Apr 22, 2015)

You're welcome.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 24, 2015)

Would you happen to know what threads the spindle are? I have a brand new 6" 4 jaw for my 10" I'm curious if it would work on a 12"


Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (Apr 25, 2015)

Atlas made two different spindles for the 9", 10" and 12", one for babbit bearings and one for Timken bearings.  They both have 1-1/2"-8 nose threads.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 25, 2015)

Was the 12" craftsmen model lathe available with Babbitt bearings?  The machine I'm
going to look at has a QCGB on it if that makes a difference. He's asking 700 with steady rest and what looks to be a beat 3 jaw chuck and another chuck that I haven't the first clue what it's for.


Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (Apr 26, 2015)

Yes.  Eight of the twelve 12" pre-war model all had babbit bearings, 101.07360...07363 and 101.07380...07383.  The four with Timken bearings were 101.07400...07403.  The first two models with QCGB were 101.27430 & 27440.  Both are the same as the 101.07403 except for the QCGB.  The last babbit headstock model was the 101.07383 made circa 1945.

Note that the 101.21450 gear box can be retrofitted to all 12 of the pre-war change gear models.  So check first for nameplate (model number).  If the model number is 101.07403 (which would be a conversion), 27430 or 27440, and if the machine is overall in good condition including low wear, it is worth an easy $700 in most of the country.  The steady rest itself is worth $100-$150.  The chucks, it would depend upon details.

One other explanatory comment - Up through the 101.07403, the model numbers did not define the bed length or distance between centers.  With the 101.07383 and 101.07403, there were four catalog numbers for each model that specified the bed length.  The bed length of the other ten models isn't specified in either the model or the catalog number.  So if someone says that they have a 101.07403, that only narrows it down to four possibilities.  Beginning around 1948, Atlas dropped production of the 18" and 30" between centers models.  From the introduction of the QCGB equipped 101.27430 (12x24) and 101.07440 (12x36) on through end of production in March, 1981,  the model number defines everything about the machine.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 27, 2015)

Well I looked at it. Headstock is Timken bearing but had more then .015 play in it. The ways where worn about .005 cross slide and compound had play but ways looked alright. It has a QCGB but everything in that was well worn as well as the gear train. The ways were gouged like they'd never been cleaned it had a steady rest and other tooling some drill chucks a two how three jaw four jaw and 3 jaw tool less chick but they all had play in them. Overall it seemed well worn. The bed is a 954 casting and I believe the model is 101.27440. He started out at 700 and came down to 550. I offered 400 as to bring this lathe back to a precision machine would take a ton of time and labor. And 400 was where I was comfortable only because of the QCGB and steady rest.


Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (Apr 28, 2015)

Carlo,

As you didn't say that he did, I take it that he wouldn't take $400.  Actually, $400 is about the going price for a QCGB by itself with all of the necessary parts to install it (which some sellers don't seem to know about).  $150 is at perhaps the high end of the typical price for a steady rest.  All lathe chucks have end play in the jaws (in the direction up or down the slots).  The jaws shouldn't have much twist or rock (roll, pitch or yaw) though.  Getting rid of the 15 thou spindle end float is trivial - just loosen the set screws in the collar on the left end of the spindle and tighten it per the Technical Bulletin.  However, what I might be concerned about is that if the lathe has been operated much with 15 thou spindle end float, the bearings could be unevenly worn.

What I would do is to combine the better parts from the TH54 and the 101.27440 into one 12".  However, you won't be able to sell the TH54.  If that's important, keep looking.  But the going price for one of the Commercials is probably over $1200, perhaps $1500 for a good condition 3996 or 101.28990, although you could get lucky.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 28, 2015)

My concern was also the spindle bearings all the Ducks had play in every way they shouldn't so I'd be left with my 4 jaw chick which would do fine for my needs. The wear in the gearbox and such has me worried as it was hard to engage some of the gears. All the gears looked good however in the gear box. It was the nuetral engage switch and associated gearing up to the box that was worn as well as bull gear and back gears. If the QCGB was able to put in my 10" I would've paid 550$ like he wanted. I'm just not very comfortable with the condition of the rest of the machine. My bed is in better condition so I'd probably use that. As far as wear goes it's better mine is more pitted in non essential areas where the 12" is cleaner minus the gouging. I may give him a ring and see if he'll take closer to 500$. My thing is I know what my machine is. I tried to look this one over the best I know how for the time I spent. Also it's in a basement with alit of twist and turns and tight areas. So getting it out would necessitate a full tear down to move it anyhow. I try not to be impulsive as usually that's how I get into trouble. And at the moment I'm more interested in buying a mill the. I am another lathe. If it was a commercial version I would've paid the asking price. However it isn't. 


Regards-Carlo


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 28, 2015)

Also there's two bolts on the forward spindle bearing "cap" that I've never seen. The wine said he tightened them up and that seemed to take the play out of the spindle but from my understanding the only adjustment should be the collar at the rear of the shaft. It looked like it was a babbit bearing machine at first but it's definitely Timken bearings I'm curious if the bolts are something someone did along the line for whatever reason. They're two bolts running perpendicular to the bed on either side of the bearing on the forward cap closest to the chuck.


Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (Apr 28, 2015)

If the headstock was originally for babbit bearings, it would have bearing caps and two screws on both ends.  If it doesn't have them on the left end, then it didn't originally have them on the right.  I cannot imagine any beneficial purpose for them.  Another point is that Sears never sold a machine with babbit bearings and 3/4" dia. lead screw (and power cross feed).


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 29, 2015)

Well the QCGB doesn't match the color scheme of the lathe and it definitely never had Babbitt bearings. I just wasn't sure if there was some type of option for something I'm not aware of at some point to have those bolts in the forward bearing cap. I realize it isn't a cap as its all one cast piece is just don't know what else to refer to it as.  I upped my offer by 50$ and he said he has to touch base with another seller. I'm just afraid there's more modified parts then what I can see right now. 


Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (Apr 29, 2015)

OK.  Did you take any photos of the lathe?  If you did and you haven't decided to drop it, create an album (with the same name as the subject of this thread) and upload them.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 29, 2015)

I'm going to drop it. I found another lathe locally and purchased it. However it's a southbend. So onto the southbend section I go


Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (Apr 30, 2015)

Good luck.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 30, 2015)

Yeah I'm going to need it he still will not answer his phone or return my calls. I would've rather had the craftsmen to be honest. 


Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (May 2, 2015)

Well, don't burn your bridges, then.  Meaning don't call up the Atlas seller and tell him you are out of it until you are certain that you really are. 

If you do have photos of the headstock, I'm curious to see those bolts near the right spindle bearing area whether you buy it or not.


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## Strtspdlx (May 2, 2015)

wa5cab said:


> Well, don't burn your bridges, then.  Meaning don't call up the Atlas seller and tell him you are out of it until you are certain that you really are.
> 
> If you do have photos of the headstock, I'm curious to see those bolts near the right spindle bearing area whether you buy it or not.


I really wish I had taken pictures when I was there. I doubt he'll call me back as its been 3 days and not a word. 


Regards-Carlo


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## taycat (May 2, 2015)

sorry to jump in but what is a QCGB?
am new to machining and still trying to learn.
thanks


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## Strtspdlx (May 2, 2015)

taycat said:


> sorry to jump in but what is a QCGB?
> am new to machining and still trying to learn.
> thanks


QCGB stands for quick change gear box. 


Regards-Carlo


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## taycat (May 2, 2015)

Thanks


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## Strtspdlx (May 4, 2015)

I'll probably end up keeping my machine as no one wants to pay me what I want for it and after all the work I've put into it I've really grown to love it. I may just sell the southbend and use that to fund properly repairing my atlas. 


Regards-Carlo


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