# New ACRA 1440C lathe with Mark Jacobs VFD



## Tipton1965 (Sep 26, 2021)

Earlier this summer I received my new ACRA 1440C lathe. At 2700 pounds there was no way I was wanting to deal with the unloading duties.  I ended up having it delivered to a local crane service company.  When it arrived they unloaded the machine from the delivery semi and loaded it on their flat bed truck.  They then loaded their forklift on the truck as well and delivered it to my shop.  Here's a few pics of that experience.  I will admit, even though they are professionals it still stressed me out to watch the whole ordeal.




When they arrived at my home not only did they drive it into my shop but they were able to push it right through my French doors and into the separate room where the lathe will live.  Here's what it looked like after they left.



  I am able to use my pallet jack to move the lathe around.  I still need to get the machine off the pallet but that was NOT the most important task at hand.  This is the part of the thread where I bring in Mark Jacobs.  My lathe came with a 5hp three phase motor so I knew I was wanting a VFD setup to run things.  I toyed with the idea of just buying a rotary phase converter and calling it a day but what fun would that be?  I contacted Mark months ago about building a VFD and he and I exchanged a few emails back and forth about the build.  Okay, who am I kidding......I sent Mark so many emails during the whole VFD build process that he jokingly mentioned that he should have charged me by the email.  At least I think he was joking!  What can I say about Mark that hasn't already been said in many past postings?  I've had many dealings online but dealing with Mark was a really nice experience.  If you email him with questions you don't get a few word reply in return.  No, you get a wealth of informative instruction sent back at ya.  After doing alot of reading about VFD's I ended up going with the full Mark Jacobs VFD build.  That meant opening up the control box on the back of my brand new lathe and gutting everything out.  I mean everything.....contactors, fusing, transformer, disconnect switch, and all the wiring.  Here's what it looked like before........


And here's what it looked like after.




So I ended up shipping the bare galvanized back plate from the lathe to Mark where he built up his end of the VFD by wiring the main control board and building all the cables.  Here's what it looks like after installing it back into the control box on the back of the lathe.  Hopefully Mark will stop by and explain in more detail about the main control board.




On my end I was responsible for building out the VFD enclosure.  I was able to do this with extensive help from Mark.  I've done plenty of house wiring but never something like this so Mark basically held my hand and I pretty much just did what he told me to do.  I ended up going with a Yaskawa GA500 5hp VFD.  The main power cord for the VFD is a 50 amp welders extension cord that I cut the end off of and wired it into the enclosure.  Since I had plenty of the cord left I ended up using the extra wire for the inside wiring of the VFD enclosure.  So yeah.....the wiring inside is rather large.  I ended up cutting a viewing window on the front door of the enclosure so I could see the front display on the VFD.  I also repurposed the original light from the factory front controls on the lathe as an indicator light on the front door of the VFD enclosure (Thanks Blades for the good idea!)  Here's some photos of the VFD enclosure.








Needless to say I'm extremely happy with the outcome and it would have never been possible without Mark Jacobs and his Steller knowledge of these VFD systems.  I'm really looking forward to threading with Marks proximity stop system.  I have done alot of threading back in my days as a machinist but it was the old seat of your pants way of doing things.  This proximity stop setup will be something I have never done before.  As mentioned I still need to finish cleaning up the lathe and getting it off the pallet and pushed into place.  Many thanks again to Mark for all his help.  I had a really good time putting this all together.

Here's a few more pics!


----------



## Nutfarmer (Sep 26, 2021)

Nice! I like the window so the read out of the vfd shows


----------



## Aukai (Sep 26, 2021)

Outstanding!!


----------



## .LMS. (Sep 26, 2021)

Wow!  Envious....


----------



## Tipton1965 (Sep 27, 2021)

Forgot to mention that Mark sent me a MR-16 socket to convert my 24 volt halogen work light to 12 volt LED.  Worked out really well.


----------



## Boxster9 (Sep 27, 2021)

"Deja vu all over again"  Been there, done that and not look back.  Enjoy!


----------



## 3strucking (Oct 1, 2021)

If I ever purchase a new lathe, I would do the same thing. That will be a fantastic machine.


----------



## Beckerkumm (Oct 1, 2021)

Mark did a conversion for my Smart and Brown so I'm a huge fan.  How does your conversion differ from an electronic 1440 offered by Acra?  Are there design differences or improvements and how does the cost compare?  Dave


----------



## mksj (Oct 1, 2021)

I had suggested looking at the Acra 1440C VFD version but it was around twice the cost vs. building a VFD a system. Both use a Yaskawa drives and are relay based control systems, there are more features with the system that I built for him vs. the factory version (it uses a 2 speed headstock gearbox, the manual is 8 speed). The factory VFD uses a larger electrical cabinet with the VFD built in vs. an external cabinet to house the VFD, power supply, braking resistor, fusing/breaker and disconnect switch. We went with the Yaskawa GA500 which is one of the few native single phase input 5 Hp VFD's, the factory version uses a 10 Hp VFD in derated mode so can be wired to single phase or 3 phase input. We could have gone that route but it was an additional expense and the intent was to wire it for single phase input.

Overall was a very clean install, and the VFD cabinet needed to be a bit larger to house the massive VFD. The GA500 also is a bit different in that it uses all pin connectors for the wiring, they did away with screw and spade/ring connectors on this model.  The switch gear used on this build is all made by Idec except the jog joystick, the quality of the switch gear, speed pot, etc. I would rate as much better than stock.


----------



## Beckerkumm (Oct 1, 2021)

Do both versions use the same motors or does the 2 speed gearbox machine get a better ( or larger ) inverter friendly motor?  I like to work on machines and found a Black Max 5 hp for $250 NOS so I'll find an excuse to put it into something.  Dave


----------



## 3strucking (Oct 1, 2021)

Thats a expensive VFD. I guess its like other things in that you have to pay for quality.


----------



## mksj (Oct 1, 2021)

They are both 5 Hp models, my ERL-1340 was available with either a 3 Hp or 5 Hp, I went with the 3 Hp. I do not know if the factory motor on the VFD model is different, but would assume it is more of a vector style needed to cover a 10 fold speed range with the two speed gearbox. I recommend running the sock motor from 20-80 Hz, I see no reason to have to extend it to a higher RPM. Most of the time I leave my lathe in high gear usually using the 772 speed which gives me a range in the 200-1000 RPM. Of interest, both of our lathes run slower when set at 60 Hz then the posted name plate speeds for some reason, so having the VFD and a tachometer allows one to dial in the speed vs. the manual lathe w/o a VFD. Thee is also a manual version of the lathe with a 2 speed motor, so 5 Hp in high speed and 2.5 Hp low speed with the 8 speed gearbox gives 16 speeds.

Before my ERL-1340 was delivered I was able to pick up a 3 Hp vector motor that I though I would install, but once I started using the stock motor there was just no reason switch to a vector motor and there is the added complication that the manual brake is part of the motor pulley.


----------



## ddickey (Oct 2, 2021)

If I remember correctly mine was $1000 more for the factory vfd.


----------



## mksj (Oct 2, 2021)

Price of the VFD model was 2K more when I purchased my ERL 1340 and now around 3K more than the manual. The VFD price of the 5HP GA500 was less than the Hitachi WJ200-075SF and less than half of the 10 Hp Yaskawa used in the factory VFD 1440C. Prices have gone up significantly. You need to shop around on the VFD's these days, this is a bit higher than the cost of the one that was purchased for the project. Many of the VFD's (like the WJ200) are also out of stock.








						YASKAWA GA500 INDUSTRIAL AC MICRODRIVE MODEL# GA50UB018ABA 1/PH 240V 5.0 HP 17.6 AMPS ND
					

STOCK IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE. THIS PRODUCT HAS EXTENDED LEAD TIMES, CONTACT US FOR ESTIMATED AVAILABILITY DATE.



					prbelectronics.com


----------



## 3strucking (Oct 2, 2021)

I must of looked at the wrong one because the price was $1900


----------



## Tipton1965 (Oct 2, 2021)

3strucking said:


> I must of looked at the wrong one because the price was $1900


Yeah you were definitely looking at the wrong one.  I paid $637.00 for the GA500 used in the build.


----------



## davidpbest (Oct 3, 2021)

Great looking setup Doug.  Glad this has worked out for you.   I remember your first lathe delivery was severely damaged in shipment and you refused delivery.  All's well that ends well, right.?  At times I wish I had the space for a larger lathe myself, but my (fully customized) PM-1340 is serving me well. I admire your courage gutting the controls on a brand new lathe - kind of reminds me of my saga tearing apart my 1340 and doing a re-paint and fastener upgrade.  You should be able to churn out parts for NASA with your 1440.   Congratulations.


----------



## Tipton1965 (Oct 3, 2021)

davidpbest said:


> Great looking setup Doug.  Glad this has worked out for you.   I remember your first lathe delivery was severely damaged in shipment and you refused delivery.  All's well that ends well, right.?  At times I wish I had the space for a larger lathe myself, but my (fully customized) PM-1340 is serving me well. I admire your courage gutting the controls on a brand new lathe - kind of reminds me of my saga tearing apart my 1340 and doing a re-paint and fastener upgrade.  You should be able to churn out parts for NASA with your 1440.   Congratulations.


It's been a long journey just getting a couple machines in my shop.  I think I started all this last February.  Last January I was in the hospital with a health scare.  Made me realize that I need to get some of my long term goals done and this was something I have been wanting since I got out of the trade years ago.


----------



## Tipton1965 (Oct 9, 2021)

Got the machine off the pallet and on its own feet.  Also ran the spindle break in procedure.  I have it raised 4.5".


----------



## davidpbest (Oct 9, 2021)

If there were an "Envy" button, I'd be hammering on it.  Very nice.


----------



## Aukai (Oct 9, 2021)

Me too


----------



## Beckerkumm (Oct 9, 2021)

I'd be interested in a critique of your lathe.  I'm an old machine guy but the Acra stuff looks very nice.  Dave


----------



## Watchwatch (Oct 9, 2021)

Beautiful  

I’ll post some hot new machine porn hopefully next week. A new Sharp TMV 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tipton1965 (Oct 9, 2021)

Watchwatch said:


> Beautiful
> 
> I’ll post some hot new machine porn hopefully next week. A new Sharp TMV
> 
> ...


Nice........What size are you getting?


----------



## Watchwatch (Oct 9, 2021)

10x50

Teaser pic? It’s in town at my cousins dock.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tipton1965 (Oct 9, 2021)

Watchwatch said:


> 10x50
> 
> Teaser pic? It’s in town at my cousins dock.
> 
> ...


Looks like it made it in one piece.  Kind of scary how they ship these larger mills.  My ACRA mill shipped the same way.....on a pallet wrapped with plastic.  At least they turned the head upside down on yours.


----------



## Aukai (Oct 10, 2021)

I got lucky, Tom at ACRA shipped mine like this.


----------



## ddickey (Oct 10, 2021)

Mine came bolted onto to a pallet also. If I were to tell you the truck it came on had the pallet strapped and nothing else would you believe me?


----------



## Janderso (Oct 10, 2021)

Tipton1965 said:


> Got the machine off the pallet and on its own feet.  Also ran the spindle break in procedure.  I have it raised 4.5".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Beautiful!
It’s interesting to note, this lathe has head stock controls exactly the same as my 1970‘s Clausing Colchester 15 X 50.


----------



## Beckerkumm (Oct 10, 2021)

Is the Colchester the one with the Matrix clutch or just a back gear?  Dave


----------



## Tipton1965 (Oct 10, 2021)

ddickey said:


> Mine came bolted onto to a pallet also. If I were to tell you the truck it came on had the pallet strapped and nothing else would you believe me?


I believe you.  Both my ACRA lathe and mill came that way.  Tom is picky about keeping straps and heaven forbid chains off the machines.


----------



## mksj (Oct 10, 2021)

Tipton1965 said:


> I believe you. Both my ACRA lathe and mill came that way. Tom is picky about keeping straps and heaven forbid chains off the machines.


A friend who ordered an Acra  1640, the trucker had straps over the lathe used to secure the machine and the tarp over it, the straps flapped in the wind, the lathe arrived damaged.  Acra had to replace it. My ERL1340 came fully crated, no straps to the machine. The pallet which was very heavily built. How a machine is packaged varies by distributor and probably transport being used. My mill from Acra was  wrapped in plastic and fastened by the wood base with chains.

ERL1340 Lathe


Acra LCM-42 Mill


----------



## Tipton1965 (Oct 10, 2021)

> A friend who ordered an Acra 1640, the trucker had straps over the lathe used to secure the machine and the tarp over it, the straps flapped in the wind, the lathe arrived damaged. Acra had to replace it


I'm sure that's why Tom doesn't want any straps on the machines.  Both the two different delivery drivers for my mill and lathe told me they wanted to strap the machines down but Tom told them only the pallet.  The machines are through bolted to the pallet with carriage bolts so it's pretty secure.  I wasn't worried about the lathe because it had a lower center of gravity.  But check out how my mill was shipped.  Head up and pallet strapped.  When Tom sent me that pic I was more than a little concerned but it made it just fine.


----------



## ddickey (Oct 10, 2021)

@Tipton1965 Is that mill an LCTM?


----------



## Tipton1965 (Oct 10, 2021)

ddickey said:


> @Tipton1965 Is that mill an LCTM?


LCM-42.  VFD model.  It's the same mill Mark has.


----------



## ddickey (Oct 10, 2021)

Nice. I have an LCTM 3AC. Great mills.


----------



## Aukai (Oct 10, 2021)

Would anyone add a quill DRO?


----------



## mksj (Oct 10, 2021)

Acra LCTM 3AC is a beast of a mill, about 1000 lbs heavier than the LCM and monster 7.5Hp motor.

Definitely would add a quill DRO. I use my quill for 99% of my depth adjustments when milling, I use a 4 axis DRO in 3axis mode that sums the knee and the quill.


----------



## Aukai (Oct 10, 2021)

I did not add the quill DRO when I ordered. Is it easier to add the channel/cable, and mount the reader for the DP 700, or get a stand alone quill DRO?


----------



## Tipton1965 (Oct 10, 2021)

ddickey said:


> Nice. I have an LCTM 3AC. Great mills.


What are you machining with that luxury liner?


----------



## ddickey (Oct 11, 2021)

Nothing today. Just wanted a nice rigid machine. Will probably never buy another mill in my lifetime.
@mksj I had Tom offered a 5hp Baldor that I went with so no 7.5hp.


----------



## ArmyDoc (Oct 11, 2021)

Aukai said:


> I got lucky, Tom at ACRA shipped mine like this.


I dont recall seeing a thread on your experiences with this.  If you posted one, can you post a link?  If you haven't posted such a thread...  
You should know that we are prepared to forgive you.  But only if you rectify that aggregious omission immediately.

Ah HA!  I found it!  All is forgiven.








						The ACRA has landed
					

ACRA 9 X 50 3ph VFD, AC inverter DP 700 DRO, 3 axis power feed, quill power feed, and power draw bar. The machine is in it's spot, now to levitate it off the pallet :rolleyes: The new owner of the G0755 needs to come pick up his machine...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


----------



## Beckerkumm (Oct 11, 2021)

I'd take the Baldor too.  My old motor guy says they are still the pick of the litter in the small motor world and 7.5 is a lot for a J head type machine.  Looking forward to a review.  I believe your mill is slightly a heavier version of my Sharp ( First ) VH25 and maybe closer to the VH3.  Will be interesting to see the differences.  Dave


----------



## Tipton1965 (Oct 11, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Beautiful!
> It’s interesting to note, this lathe has head stock controls exactly the same as my 1970‘s Clausing Colchester 15 X 50.


Just saw a Clausing on Facebook marketplace.  Yeah the controls are very similar
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
.


----------



## SD Crane man (Mar 23, 2022)

mksj said:


> I had suggested looking at the Acra 1440C VFD version but it was around twice the cost vs. building a VFD a system. Both use a Yaskawa drives and are relay based control systems, there are more features with the system that I built for him vs. the factory version (it uses a 2 speed headstock gearbox, the manual is 8 speed). The factory VFD uses a larger electrical cabinet with the VFD built in vs. an external cabinet to house the VFD, power supply, braking resistor, fusing/breaker and disconnect switch. We went with the Yaskawa GA500 which is one of the few native single phase input 5 Hp VFD's, the factory version uses a 10 Hp VFD in derated mode so can be wired to single phase or 3 phase input. We could have gone that route but it was an additional expense and the intent was to wire it for single phase input.
> 
> Overall was a very clean install, and the VFD cabinet needed to be a bit larger to house the massive VFD. The GA500 also is a bit different in that it uses all pin connectors for the wiring, they did away with screw and spade/ring connectors on this model.  The switch gear used on this build is all made by Idec except the jog joystick, the quality of the switch gear, speed pot, etc. I would rate as much better than stock.


​Mark,
I recently bought an Acra ATL-1660TE from a guy down in Chula Vista (I'm in Bonita) anyway I have been stalking some of the VFD posts here on HM to learn what I could, as well I spoke to Bud (BladesIIB) the 1440 he has shares the same motor as my machine. My question is would this be a sensible choice for my machine?
Yaskawa VFD GA500 Drive 5Hp – 7.5Hp GA50U2021ABA 240V​I'm going to pull out all of the original contractors and replace them with relays, and pretty much follow what you have help others do.
Thanks in advance for any advice you can lend me.
Regards,
George


----------



## mksj (Mar 24, 2022)

Hi George,

The GA50U2021ABA will not work for single phase input, you need to look at the motor 3 phase amps (14A)  and the VFD output amps in HD mode, three phase input VFD's need to be derated by a factor of 1.7-2.0. I am working with another individual with the 1640TL and ended up with the GA50U2042ABA which is a beast of a VFD. Depending on the model, they are either very wide or the higher amp units are tall, so they require a sizable enclosure. I like the Yaskawa GA500 VFD's, they are a replacement for the V1000, they work very well and are one of the most commonly installed factory VFD's in manual lathes and mills. GA500 is easy to program via USB/software.

These two would be my recommendations:
GA50UB018ABA 1/PH 240V 5.0 HP 17.6 AMPS HD, this is a native single phase input VFD








						YASKAWA GA500 INDUSTRIAL AC MICRODRIVE MODEL# GA50UB018ABA 1/PH 240V 5.0 HP 17.6 AMPS ND
					

STOCK IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE. THIS PRODUCT HAS EXTENDED LEAD TIMES, CONTACT US FOR ESTIMATED AVAILABILITY DATE.



					prbelectronics.com
				




GA50U2030ABA 3/PH 240V 10/7.5 HP 25 AMPS HD, single phase input in derated mode ~14.2A HD








						YASKAWA GA500 INDUSTRIAL AC MICRODRIVE MODEL# GA50U2030ABA 3/PH 240V 10 HP  30 AMPS ND  25 AMPS HD
					





					prbelectronics.com


----------



## SD Crane man (Mar 24, 2022)

mksj said:


> I had suggested looking at the Acra 1440C VFD version but it was around twice the cost vs. building a VFD a system. Both use a Yaskawa drives and are relay based control systems, there are more features with the system that I built for him vs. the factory version (it uses a 2 speed headstock gearbox, the manual is 8 speed). The factory VFD uses a larger electrical cabinet with the VFD built in vs. an external cabinet to house the VFD, power supply, braking resistor, fusing/breaker and disconnect switch. We went with the Yaskawa GA500 which is one of the few native single phase input 5 Hp VFD's, the factory version uses a 10 Hp VFD in derated mode so can be wired to single phase or 3 phase input. We could have gone that route but it was an additional expense and the intent was to wire it for single phase input.
> 
> Overall was a very clean install, and the VFD cabinet needed to be a bit larger to house the massive VFD. The GA500 also is a bit different in that it uses all pin connectors for the wiring, they did away with screw and spade/ring connectors on this model.  The switch gear used on this build is all made by Idec except the jog joystick, the quality of the switch gear, speed pot, etc. I would rate as much better than stock.





mksj said:


> I had suggested looking at the Acra 1440C VFD version but it was around twice the cost vs. building a VFD a system. Both use a Yaskawa drives and are relay based control systems, there are more features with the system that I built for him vs. the factory version (it uses a 2 speed headstock gearbox, the manual is 8 speed). The factory VFD uses a larger electrical cabinet with the VFD built in vs. an external cabinet to house the VFD, power supply, braking resistor, fusing/breaker and disconnect switch. We went with the Yaskawa GA500 which is one of the few native single phase input 5 Hp VFD's, the factory version uses a 10 Hp VFD in derated mode so can be wired to single phase or 3 phase input. We could have gone that route but it was an additional expense and the intent was to wire it for single phase input.
> 
> Overall was a very clean install, and the VFD cabinet needed to be a bit larger to house the massive VFD. The GA500 also is a bit different in that it uses all pin connectors for the wiring, they did away with screw and spade/ring connectors on this model.  The switch gear used on this build is all made by Idec except the jog joystick, the quality of the switch gear, speed pot, etc. I would rate as much better than stock.





mksj said:


> Hi George,
> 
> The GA50U2021ABA will not work for single phase input, you need to look at the motor 3 phase amps (14A)  and the VFD output amps in HD mode, three phase input VFD's need to be derated by a factor of 1.7-2.0. I am working with another individual with the 1640TL and ended up with the GA50U2042ABA which is a beast of a VFD. Depending on the model, they are either very wide or the higher amp units are tall, so they require a sizable enclosure. I like the Yaskawa GA500 VFD's, they are a replacement for the V1000, they work very well and are one of the most commonly installed factory VFD's in manual lathes and mills. GA500 is easy to program via USB/software.
> 
> ...


Mark,
Thank you for your response. My instinct is to go with the 7.5 HP model, it appears the amp draw is a little less if I understand the description correctly. Would there be any compelling reason to use one over the other? Also, is this the appropriate place to have this discussion. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive to this, but I don't want to make any waves here.
Thanks,
George


----------



## mksj (Mar 24, 2022)

If you are only going to be using the lathe on single phase than the GA50UB018ABA is designed for that. The GA50U2030ABA is designed for 3 phase input but can be used in a derated mode with single phase input. The amps are the output amps that the VFD can deliver to the motor at a continuous rating in heavy duty mode which is usually what I specify for a lathe. Cost wise they are about the same.

On the input side both VFD's should draw approximately the same current for a given motor output, but there are difference in the NEC specifications as to minimum breaker size and wiring which is 125% of their rated input current regardless of what the output current is. I am not aware of any guidance as to NEC wiring specifications of a 3 phase input VFD running off of single phase, but Fuji drives indicates the fusing is the same, you just use 2 input poles for single phase vs. 3 and the fuse size is unchanged. When installing a 3 phase VFD running in derated mode, I often wire/fuse all 3 phases, and connect single phase to L1 and L2.  Wiring on the motor side needs to support a current of 125% of the motor FLA. If you do a build post I would start a new thread, but this discussion is appropriate as to VFD's that would be an alternative for this build.


----------



## SD Crane man (Mar 25, 2022)

mksj said:


> If you are only going to be using the lathe on single phase than the GA50UB018ABA is designed for that. The GA50U2030ABA is designed for 3 phase input but can be used in a derated mode with single phase input. The amps are the output amps that the VFD can deliver to the motor at a continuous rating in heavy duty mode which is usually what I specify for a lathe. Cost wise they are about the same.
> 
> On the input side both VFD's should draw approximately the same current for a given motor output, but there are difference in the NEC specifications as to minimum breaker size and wiring which is 125% of their rated input current regardless of what the output current is. I am not aware of any guidance as to NEC wiring specifications of a 3 phase input VFD running off of single phase, but Fuji drives indicates the fusing is the same, you just use 2 input poles for single phase vs. 3 and the fuse size is unchanged. When installing a 3 phase VFD running in derated mode, I often wire/fuse all 3 phases, and connect single phase to L1 and L2.  Wiring on the motor side needs to support a current of 125% of the motor FLA. If you do a build post I would start a new thread, but this discussion is appropriate as to VFD's that would be an alternative for this build.


Thanks again Mark.
I searched today, both are in short supply it seems. Covid, no chips, back ordered etc. I did find both at RSP Supply. As you said, the cost difference doesn't amount to much.I think I'm going to use the 2030ABA. I'm scratchin for a reason to use one over the other, but the ability to use 3 phase input would perhaps open it up to more opportunity if I ever decided to sell it. Assuming the performance characteristics are the same?


----------



## mksj (Mar 26, 2022)

Technically for single phase input the GA50UB018AB is a better rated VFD looking at the output amps. To some degree it comes down to your motor amps. The GA50U2030ABA should work well, but probably would benefit from a DC choke (25A-32A). In my lathe with a 3 Hp motor I  run a Yaskawa V1000 3 phase CIMR-VU2A0020FAA VFD which has an output of 19.6A and in derated mode for single phase input it is rated at~11.5A, with a 18A DC buss choke, and it can be run off of single or 3 phase. My motor pulls 8.3A, so I have plenty of headroom, which is not the case with the GA50U2030ABA and a 5 Hp motor pulling 14 or more Amps. It will work, since you rarely pull full motor amps, but I would probably us a DC choke and/or dial down the overload point to 130% instead of 150%. MTE makes DC buss chokes (DCA002504, DCA002504, DCA003201, DCA003202) that are readily available, but additional cost and space in the VFD cabinet.








						MTE DCA003201 DC Link Choke 0.85mH, 32ADC, 1000VDC MAX - NEW  | eBay
					

These services include NO VERBAL CONFIRMATION WILL BE GIVEN, THIS MUST BE IN WRITING. Item is sold as pictured.



					www.ebay.com


----------



## SD Crane man (Mar 31, 2022)

mksj said:


> Technically for single phase input the GA50UB018AB is a better rated VFD looking at the output amps. To some degree it comes down to your motor amps. The GA50U2030ABA should work well, but probably would benefit from a DC choke (25A-32A). In my lathe with a 3 Hp motor I  run a Yaskawa V1000 3 phase CIMR-VU2A0020FAA VFD which has an output of 19.6A and in derated mode for single phase input it is rated at~11.5A, with a 18A DC buss choke, and it can be run off of single or 3 phase. My motor pulls 8.3A, so I have plenty of headroom, which is not the case with the GA50U2030ABA and a 5 Hp motor pulling 14 or more Amps. It will work, since you rarely pull full motor amps, but I would probably us a DC choke and/or dial down the overload point to 130% instead of 150%. MTE makes DC buss chokes (DCA002504, DCA002504, DCA003201, DCA003202) that are readily available, but additional cost and space in the VFD cabinet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mark,
At the risk of beating a dead horse to a shapeless pulp.
These are the GA50U2030ABA specs. I have read that to derate the VFD you use vfd output amp/1.73. What I don't understand is which of the two ratings below are used? 25, or 30? If I'm understanding this correctly and the 25 amp rating is what would be used that leaves me with 14.45 amps available. The motor tag shows the motor draw at 230 volts is 14 amps That sure wouldn't leave much headroom. I understand the lathe would probably never work that hard, but with the lotteries I tend to win I would be concerned about the motor running hot.
Thoughts?


Item Number:  
GA50U2030ABA
Brand:
Yaskawa 
Item Category:
Drives
Subcategory: 
AC
Series: 
GA500
Input Range VAC:
200 to 240 Volts AC 
Input Phase:
3 
HP (CT):
7.5 Horsepower 
Amps (CT):
25 Amps 
HP (VT):
10 Horsepower 
Amps (VT):
30 Amps 
Max. Frequency:
590 Hertz 
Braking Type:
DC Injection;Dynamic Braking 
AC Line Regenerative:
No 
Closed Loop:
No 
Motor Control-Max Level:
Open Loop Vector (Sensorless Vector) 
Operator Controls:
Keypad Included 
IP Rating:
IP20 
Comments:
Side-By -Side Mounting, Includes Safe Torque Off, Setup Wizard For Easy Start-up, LED Status Ring 
Mounting:
PANEL 
Frame Size:
5 
Refurbished:
New 
H x W x D: 
10.24 in x 5.51 in x 5.51 in
  Net Weight: 
7 lb 8 oz


----------



## mksj (Mar 31, 2022)

When looking at a VFD for lathes I usually run them in the maximum duty condition, typically the default is 150% overload, vector motors I go to 180%. So you need to look at the VFD output current rating for constant torque and usually this is listed as HD mode, or others ND in constant torque mode.

These days VFD's have a wide range of "Hp" and "Output Amp" ratings and also derating factors, my understanding according to others in the industry this is because they are being built to lighter duty specs. You also need to take into account the specific manufacturer specification of the model and the derating conditions that the manufacture states as to thing like ambient temp., carrier freq., enclosure volume, etc. Yaskawa does specify a derating factor of ~1.7 for single phase, they also specify that this is with using a DC choke. The DC choke decreases the current draw pulses and also the input fusing requirements, so in general a good idea if using a 3 phase VFD in derated mode. W/O a choke the industry standard is more like a factor of 2 for derating. Newer VFD's from Automation Direct (GS20) have a derating of 2-3, and this also applies to the newer Hitachi line of the SJ-P1 series. So for the motor you have outlined you would need to use their VFD rated for 11kW 46A which in derated mode is rated at 13.3 to 15.5A. Please not that derating is based on industrial use with running the VFD continuously at close to maximum output, so yes you could get by with a lesser derating or model that just meets specs. So the GA50U2030ABA with a DC choke would be adequate, and Yaskawa VFD's tends to be very durable and rated for 24/7 use for many years.

Hitachi  SJ-P1 VFDs


----------



## SD Crane man (Apr 4, 2022)

mksj said:


> When looking at a VFD for lathes I usually run them in the maximum duty condition, typically the default is 150% overload, vector motors I go to 180%. So you need to look at the VFD output current rating for constant torque and usually this is listed as HD mode, or others ND in constant torque mode.
> 
> These days VFD's have a wide range of "Hp" and "Output Amp" ratings and also derating factors, my understanding according to others in the industry this is because they are being built to lighter duty specs. You also need to take into account the specific manufacturer specification of the model and the derating conditions that the manufacture states as to thing like ambient temp., carrier freq., enclosure volume, etc. Yaskawa does specify a derating factor of ~1.7 for single phase, they also specify that this is with using a DC choke. The DC choke decreases the current draw pulses and also the input fusing requirements, so in general a good idea if using a 3 phase VFD in derated mode. W/O a choke the industry standard is more like a factor of 2 for derating. Newer VFD's from Automation Direct (GS20) have a derating of 2-3, and this also applies to the newer Hitachi line of the SJ-P1 series. So for the motor you have outlined you would need to use their VFD rated for 11kW 46A which in derated mode is rated at 13.3 to 15.5A. Please not that derating is based on industrial use with running the VFD continuously at close to maximum output, so yes you could get by with a lesser derating or model that just meets specs. So the GA50U2030ABA with a DC choke would be adequate, and Yaskawa VFD's tends to be very durable and rated for 24/7 use for many years.
> 
> ...


As it turns out the 50UBO18ABA isn't available. The supplier I was talking to contacted Yaskawa. He was told it would be 4-6 weeks, but it could be up tp six months to get it. One of the other things I will need to address are control relays. The machine still has the contractors in it. What is a good reliable relay for this purpose?
Thank you.
George


----------

