# Why there is no love for stick welders?



## umnik (Aug 6, 2019)

I just curious, why there is no love for stick welders?
I used once a stick welder to fabricate motor frame for my drill press. I do not have one, but borrowed from my friend tiny cheapest Harbor Freigh inverter welder and it worked fine for my purposes. I liked what it did except it does not have enough power. I thought to buy one for myself, but more powerful for some quick jobs. Interesting, when I read forums and watch YouTube I see that almost everybody uses MIG or TIG, why not stick?


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## Twirpunky (Aug 6, 2019)

Lots of smoke and slag with stick.   Slow compared to MIG.  Tig is really clean but slow.    Not much smoke with either TIG or MIG.   Stick is fine for lots of work if you are good with it.  MIG is easier to learn for the beginner.  

D


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## Winegrower (Aug 6, 2019)

Umm...it's too hard?


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## Cobra (Aug 6, 2019)

MIG is certainly easier for the beginner.  Still requires skill and practice to produce consistently good welds.
TIG is wonderfully clean but serious learning curve.


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## Karl_T (Aug 6, 2019)

Nobody else must fabricate large equipment. You can't beat a stick working on large old farm machinery 

TIG is way too slow. MIG just won't have deep enough weld penetration

Every weld process has its strengths


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## Cadillac (Aug 6, 2019)

Easy of use/laziness. I myself bought a Lincoln mig when I first started welding 25 yrs ago. It was easy I learned and then evolved into stick welding. My work had stick welders for on-site welding and repairs. You don’t need gas, you don’t have to worry about wind factor. Other than post cleaning and looks it’s a great tool to have. 
 Then I got me a tig welder. I found tig to be much like stick. Minus having to be so clean. 
 Honestly I feel the best way to learn welding is to start with stick. Get the feel of it understand what’s going on. Then mig will be a breeze and tig won’t be such a learning curve. 
 Each process has its benefits. Stick for structural,heavy welding. Mig for better aesthetics and endless wire to burn in. Tig for high strength, finish work and precision welding.


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## umnik (Aug 6, 2019)

Thanks guys, got the idea. I will stay with stick then for occasional usage. I do not like the idea buying gas tank and refilling it, sounds like a hassle to me. With stick just get a welder, a mask and buch of electrodes. Little bit post cleaning do not bother me.


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## Aaron_W (Aug 6, 2019)

MIG and TIG are better suited to hobbyists and the small work they do, and hobbyists or material aimed at hobbyists is mostly what you see on forums and youtube. Stick is messier, and harder than MIG to get a good weld.

By messier, it is not just clean up, but spatter, hot slag and fumes. MIG can be done with a much smaller dedicated work area, and TIG smaller yet because they don't throw much hot stuff around, and have far less toxic fumes / smoke.

If stick works for you, great. Generally less prep and it is a lot cheaper to get started with. You can pick up a good AC/DC stick welder used for a few hundred dollars, an AC only sometimes for $50-100. A new name brand, good quality stick welder is well under $1000. Something like a Lincoln "tombstone" or Miller Thunderbolt retail around $600-700, where a similar quality 240 volt MIG welder from these brands is typically $1100+.

You do need to add the expense of a small rod oven or 3 depending on how serious you get and what materials you are working with. Many rods should not be left out at room temperature, in natural humidity, and not all are compatible to share an oven. Rod ovens are not all that expensive though, and not all rods require one.


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## NortonDommi (Aug 6, 2019)

I have Oxy/Acet, MIG, TIG & 2 ARC.  I end up grabbing the little site welder often as it is portable, does the job and with a stitch welder works great on panel steel, using a Carbon rod holder can Braze as well.  Horses for courses.  Sometimes hard to beat stick for certain jobs especially as you can cut steel and with the right rod weld about anything., heat


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## umnik (Aug 6, 2019)

Yes, smoke and spatteris not good, but I usually open my garage door and do welding outside on my driveway. I am not going to it daily, but for occasional welding works for me.
I thought on spending $200-$300 for some inverter stick welder, do not know what more expensive one could give me. Planing to use it on steel  and do not need heavy duty circle.


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## Twirpunky (Aug 6, 2019)

An older transformer welder works just as good as an inverter.  The only drawback is size and weight.  An AC/DC stick welder can weld most anything with the correct rod. I have welded copper to steel, copper to copper, and I have even welded aluminium with one.  It will weld stainless and cast iron.  Just about anything that can be welded can be done with a stick welder.


D


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## Ulma Doctor (Aug 6, 2019)

stick welding is a skill that takes a lot of time to master, but it is the best solution for many problems
if you get small diameter electrodes, you can weld sheet metal
if you have a large enough power supply, you can weld 1" plates
weld in the wind if you want to
poor fit up- no problem E6010/6011
rusted- no problem E6010/6011
new sheet metal E6013
structural/pipe fitting/general high strength welding E7018 (E8018,E9018,E12018)
High deposit E7014, E7024, E7032
E308L stainless
E309L stainless to mild steel
E312 mystery stainless
E4043 aluminum

stick is hard to beat other than the heat distortion


mig is convenient and easy to make superficially pleasing welds,
but you need shielding gas and you can't weld in the wind or even with a breeze, you'll need a 220v unit for anything over 3/16"

FCAW is great and fast
can burn through rust/scale,
but you'll have just as much spatter as stick welding, plus you'll need a 220v unit to weld anything above 3/16" correctly

Tig is great, but very slow and everything has to be very clean-
close fit up is necessary
the welder, the cooler, the torch(es), the leads, the multiple gasses -
all add up to be an expense that keeps most folks from wanting to play, not to mention the months of practice and that expense

if you get an inverter welder get at least 165 amps
good luck


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## Nutfarmer (Aug 6, 2019)

I mainly use stick on the farm. Have both tig and mig ,but welding out side with old steel it's stick hands down. Inside with new  metal mig  and tig work fine. Both mig and tig need clean metal to start with . Either  will weld sheet metal better than stick.


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## vocatexas (Aug 6, 2019)

I grew up on a farm and started welding when I was 8 or 9 with a stick welder. Never welded with anything else  until just a couple of years ago. I've built shops, barns, trailers, plows, etc. with a stick welder. I bought a used MIG at an auction a couple of years ago and really enjoy the fact that there is no chipping and brushing, but for high-strength or deep penetration nothing can beat a stick in either a/c or d/c.

If you want a really good stick welder at a good price, see if you can find one of the Lincoln tombstone or buzz-box welders. You can probably pick up a good used one for $100 or less. For a bit more you can get them in a/c d/c. 





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## Rick Berk (Aug 6, 2019)

I have a 1949 FORNEY welder 295 AMP capacity and 100% duty cycle, have never considered getting anything else but then I'm OLD. 7014 is my go to rod.


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## Janderso (Aug 6, 2019)

It seems most of us may have learned on Arc/stick welding in the 70/80’s.
Metal shop high school had me arc welding to a pretty good level.
Raised two boys and found time for my metal hobby.
Bought a tig, mig, plasma, stick welder.
Lost all that in the fire.
Bought the Miller 220 AC/DC, does ac/dc mig, tig, stick.
Haven’t used the stick yet but I was told if you have one rod use E7018. Got it.
I have mig welded stainless with the 309 wire, easy! Most projects have been in the shop so wind has not been a factor.
Mig is so easy compared to stick.
I’ll get the stick out soon. Look at the technology that has made these processes so simple.
Mike, you probably use all these techniques at your job site.
I would love to be able to tig weld like I can mig.
Yep , hours and hours of practice. Lots of tungsten grinding and lots of gas expense.
Mig is king in my book.


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## Bi11Hudson (Aug 6, 2019)

Although not a welder, I thought to throw my dollar's worth in here.(Used to be 2 cents but inflation, you know) The fellow that taught me to weld was a pro. He could write his name on sheet metal siding and not blow a hole in it. Said when I could do that, I could call myself a welder. 50 years later, I still can't do it. But I can stick two pieces of metal together enough to climb on. Wouldn't ask anyone else to climb on it, but I dont mind myself. Thanks, Maggie (Malcolm)

I have a Lincoln "Tombstone" that I modified. An old one with copper windings... ... I "acquired" some high voltage diodes, high current too. Built a bridge, a full wave rectifier so I have AC and both polarities of DC. Full wave DC lets me stick two pieces of metal together with a high duty cycle and with the small rod I use (3/32) I can weld all day if I need to. Used flattened copper pipe for busbars. Not very pretty, but does what I want without burping.


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## cjtoombs (Aug 6, 2019)

Here's my 2 cents:

Stick:  Cheap, can weld through some rust and mill slag, better for heavier sections, hardest to master

Mig:  Relatively low cost, needs clean metal (unless you use flux cored wire), fast, can weld aluminum depending on setup, fairly easy to use

TIG:  High cost, needs clean metal, slow, can weld anything weldable, hard to get set up, easy to weld with, maximum control over welding process.

Oxyfuel:  Low cost, slow, versatile, fairly easy to weld


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## FOMOGO (Aug 7, 2019)

I learned on stick back in the mid sixty's. Pretty proficient, but only use it now on heavy stuff, like backhoe bucket repair, or structural  steel. I much prefer DC, less spatter, and generally a nicer bead. My Miller Big 40 can run some serious rod when required, and there is no question your getting full penetration. Like most things, the right tool for the right job, but if stick is all you have, it will cover most anything you will come across, with the proper rod and amperage. Mike


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## Cadillac (Aug 7, 2019)

I have a buddy that’s a welder and coincidentally he sent me a picture of a valve he had to replace in a boiler room at some factory. This is what you weld with stick welding. He said it took 250lbs of rod 1 at a time. Two welders switching off rod after rod 8hrs.


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## lordbeezer (Aug 7, 2019)

America was built with a stick welder and hot rivets..I've been welding since I was 14..be 67 Sunday ..I use stick welder alot on trailers..mig on pig cookers and grills..tig on gun type stuff..I've seen a lot of people make a pretty bead with mig but drop on floor or tap with hammer it breaks..gotta have penatration regardless of welder


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## Flyinfool (Aug 7, 2019)

A place that I used to work at was a heavy fabricator, they made booms for Harnischfeger cranes and many parts for Bucyrus-Erie giant mining equipment. It was almost all MIG welded. Most people do not turn the power up high enough when MIG welding for deep penetration. My MIG can butt weld 1/2" thick steel plate with a full penetration weld in a single pass.
My preferred welder is a MIG, it is fast and easy and looks good. I will still use stick if the weld has a lot of contaminates to burn thru, or TIG if it has to be really pretty and is on new clean metal, once in a great while I'll even still Oxy Act weld something, they all have their places.


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## Buffalo21 (Aug 7, 2019)

I run a stick welder almost everyday, the usual process for steam and gas piping


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## pontiac428 (Aug 7, 2019)

Horses for courses.  SMAW for structural steel and hardfacing.  GMAW for general purpose and production.  GTAW for clean and close.

I hardly do stick anymore.  I use FCAW with Praxair Stargold Ar/CO2/O2 mix for all things previously handled by E7018.  The oxygen in the gas changes the arc profile for much more penetration, making your MIG welder suitable for heavier structural welds than plain ER70.  Less spatter, too.


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## Tim9 (Aug 10, 2019)

I like stick. It’s quick and easy IMO. Also good penetration. For a small job easier than dragging out the mig for me.


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## BGHansen (Aug 11, 2019)

Boy, I must be an oddball (obviously . . .), but found stick welding pretty easy to learn.  I primarily use E6013 but use E6011 for verticals and rusty stuff.  Have some E7018 also from my father-in-law who calls it "butter rod".  Hardest part for me is getting the arc started without sticking the rod.  An auto-darkening helmet has helped though I still scratch the surface to get the arc going.  I have a Lincoln buzz box AC only welder and use it for 1/4" or thicker steel.  I've used 1/16" rod on 1/8" steel without blowing holes, but usually go to the MIG for 1/8".

Have a Hobart 190 MIG which usually has flux core 0.023" wire in it.  I use the MIG for 1/4" or thinner material.  

Have an AHP AlphaTIG 200 too.  I use it for sheet metal (0.016" - 0.062") and aluminum.  I still suck at aluminum.  Wish gas wasn't so expensive or I'd practice more. 

Bruce


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## Downunder Bob (Aug 12, 2019)

MIG wins most of the time. Like many others here I learned on stick using some pretty heavy industrial machines A3 PH lincoln and some pilot arc machines,( is that what you all call buzz box?)

I liked welding and took to it pretty quickly and easy. That was in the early to mid 60's never heard of MIG back then. but we were experimenting with TIG for welding 1 inch thick sections of Aluminium, it was a pretty impressive process.

When I finished my apprenticeship and left the trade, not that I didn't like it, just that other jobs paid much better, I realised that I enjoyed welding so bought myself a stick machine, with all the bits, and was able to make a bit on the side doing small welding jobs. It wa s a 240V single phase, 15A input with high and low volt range and choke for varying the Amps. With all copper wire transformer it was a pretty good machine. I only sold it a couple of years ago,about 3 years after buying a 3 way MIG TIG and stick machine so I had no further need for it.

It is true that that old stick machine could do a much heavier single pass weld than the MIG can, but there is nothing wrong with multi pass when and if needed. I never need to weld anything thicker than 10mm, and rarely more than 6, so MIG is good for me. I have not yet ventured into using mig for Aluminium, nor have I Tried TIG, The expense and learning curve put me off, and I'm not sure I need it. I do very little work in Aluminium or stainless If I can't stick it together with MIG or stick there is always oxy acetylene.

 In fact I've even used oxy for welding Aluminium, looks pretty rough, but it works. I'm also interested in trying these new low temperature aluminium rods with a torch, I guess it's more of a brazing process, but I've heard its pretty strong, and some of the video's I've seen it looks pretty neat, but I guess that's just practice.


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## NCjeeper (Aug 12, 2019)

I like burning some 7018's. Just depends on what I am fabbing up whether I grab the mig or the stick.


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## markba633csi (Aug 12, 2019)

Stick is fun, challenging but fun.  If you can do a decent ac stick weld, you're a welder
I have the world's most unusual transformer-in-a-box:


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## RJSakowski (Aug 12, 2019)

I use stick mostly because it is convenient.  I have two MIG machines and oxyacteylene as well but usually the bottles are empty.  I do very little welding with oxyacetylene, mostly its for heating and cutting.  I think the last time I gas welded was some aluminum sheet metal on my boat.  I use the MIG in the basement shop, mostly because there are no obnoxious fumes although I still have my Miller buzzbox there.  If I need to use it, I just open the door to the outside to vent the fumes.

I have toyed with the idea of making my own oxygen and hydrogen.  A back of the envelope calculation shows I can generate the equivalent of my S tank for under $2 worth of electricity.  I have an oxyhydrogen torch and I suspect that I can convert the OA torches over fairly easily.  

I would like to add TIG and plasma to the arsenal.  I keep eying the Everlast 265.  It just gets increasingly more difficult to justify it as I get older.


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## FOMOGO (Aug 12, 2019)

markba633csi said:


> Stick is fun, challenging but fun.  If you can do a decent ac stick weld, you're a welder
> I have the world's most unusual transformer-in-a-box:
> View attachment 300142



 That's a real work of art. Looks like it should be saying "take me to your leader" in a Flash Gorden episode. Cheers, Mike


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## stioc (Aug 12, 2019)

7014 is the easiest rod to weld with. 7018 isn't bad but on the cheap ones the restarts can test your patience!

I have all three welders but my main go-to is still the MIG after 15yrs of hobby welding. I'm new to TIG and want to make TIG my go-to welding process but I find it way too slow. However, as others have said it's the cleanest of the three and that's the main reason I want to use it the most because all my welding happens in my attached 2 car garage usually with the roll up door mostly closed.


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## cjtoombs (Aug 12, 2019)

I learned to weld on oxyacetylene and then stick when I was in high school vo-ag shop class.  That was some time ago.  I got a Mig welder about 25 years ago and used it with flux cored wire and then with shield gas, then I got a Tig welder.  The Tig also had the option for stick welding, so I got a stick stinger and gave it a try again.  That's when I realized how much harder stick is than the other processes and how much I had forgotten.  I was actually pretty good at it in high school, but the results I got were horrible.  After that practice session the stick stinger hasn't left the drawer.  If I had a major job on thick steel that I didn't want to clean to perfection, I would spend the time, rod and practice metal to re-acquire the skill, but until then, I will stick with Mig and Tig.


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## martik777 (Aug 12, 2019)

Here's my old timer. Made in the 50's in Manitoba Canada.


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## Downunder Bob (Aug 13, 2019)

markba633csi said:


> Stick is fun, challenging but fun.  If you can do a decent ac stick weld, you're a welder
> I have the world's most unusual transformer-in-a-box:
> View attachment 300142



That'sa n interesting multi tapped beast. At a guess I'd say it's ell and truly pre WWII. but probably does a good job.


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## markba633csi (Aug 13, 2019)

Bob: I think you're right, around 1940s- works well, makes a nice hum when you flip that big toggle
Smiths brand


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## westerner (Aug 13, 2019)

My dad had the oxy/acetylene in the shop before I first walked in there. He had me go fetch another coat hanger more than once.
I started arc welding with a Lincoln AC "buzzbox" (so named due to the racket it made as you varied arc length, and therefore power produced).
Spent quite a bit of time on a Miller Bobcat, in the field. MUCH better arc in DC than the ol' buzzbox. 7018 got ALOT better.
Learned how to TIG  on aluminum. First time I tried it on steel, I made a mess. WAY too hot.
Bought a 225 amp mig a few years back. I like it, it makes me look good. Almost never use anything else anymore. Don't do much anymore, either.

I never was a "real" welder with any of these processes, but I dang sure noticed that the skills required are all perishable.


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## markba633csi (Aug 14, 2019)

I learned some interesting stick facts:
1) Hot material and rod strikes easier
2) Burn off some rod before doing a bead in tight quarters, a shorter rod is easier to control
3) Experiment with the settings on your auto-dark helmet, and have good lighting. See better, weld better


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## NortonDommi (Aug 14, 2019)

RJSakowski said:


> I use stick mostly because it is convenient.  I have two MIG machines and oxyacteylene as well but usually the bottles are empty.  I do very little welding with oxyacetylene, mostly its for heating and cutting.  I think the last time I gas welded was some aluminum sheet metal on my boat.  I use the MIG in the basement shop, mostly because there are no obnoxious fumes although I still have my Miller buzzbox there.  If I need to use it, I just open the door to the outside to vent the fumes.
> 
> I have toyed with the idea of making my own oxygen and hydrogen.  A back of the envelope calculation shows I can generate the equivalent of my S tank for under $2 worth of electricity.  I have an oxyhydrogen torch and I suspect that I can convert the OA torches over fairly easily.
> 
> I would like to add TIG and plasma to the arsenal.  I keep eying the Everlast 265.  It just gets increasingly more difficult to justify it as I get older.


  As you mature when it comes to tools or hobbies do you need to justify anything?


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## RJSakowski (Aug 14, 2019)

NortonDommi said:


> As you mature when it comes to tools or hobbies do you need to justify anything?


Unfortunately, yes.  I have come to the realization the my remaining years are limited.  Even more so are the years that I can continue working in this hobby.  When I was younger, it was easy for me to justify a purchase in that it would prove useful many times in the coming years.  Now, that is not the case.
I am fortunate in that I am fairly well set and if I wanted to buy a machining center, I could and pay cash for it.  However, I have a wife who is more than 14 years my junior and I have to think about her future when I have passed on.  Given current affairs, there is a compelling need to hold a substantial reseerve.  A single medical issue could wipe out our assets.  A recession like that of a decade ago could seriously reduce them.


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## NortonDommi (Aug 14, 2019)

My birds have flown the nest and while I worry about what will happen to my lifes collection of stuff I know that I may as well enjoy every moment I have secure in the knowledge that if I lose cognisance of reality or finally drop dead tomorrow  I have gotten a few of the toys I wanted and had a play with them.


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## jbltwin1 (Aug 15, 2019)

I learned on oxy-acet   and still actually enjoy doing some gas pipe welding.  Mostly,  I use a MIG for smaller stuff but have a  Lincoln 225 ac welder for the thicker stuff.  I enjoy using the the old tombstone as it was my dads and it welds like butter when you hit the spot. Mostly 6013  but have some 7018  but honestly,  the 6013 works for most of the garbage I end up welding.   Mike.


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## Ed. (Sep 11, 2019)

It depends on the situation and the job to be done, most industrial  fabrication using cleanish prepped steel under a roof would be done with MIG due to its speed thereby saving on labour costs, if on dirtier steel and outdoors or windy conditions then MMA would be the way to go. Generally I think that you need more amps with MIG than you do with stick to achieve the same penetration, as well as the right gas for the thickness of the metal. 

I think most hobby welders choose an under powered  machine which doesn't do a good job, a 140A MIG welder will not give you as good a penetration as a 140A stick welder.  It's like anything you have to match the job, with MIG, the right size and type of wire, the right gas and a good beefy machine. With MMA  you need the right type of electrode and coating but you loose significant speed in welding but you gain on not having to worry about cleaning the  metal as much compared to MIG or worry about windy conditions.

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## epanzella (Oct 13, 2019)

Stick is the workhorse of welders. I think it should be everyone's first welder. You can't stick weld without having a basic knowledge of what welding is all about. Master a stick welder in all positions and you can move to any machine.  I have all 3 systems and the stick is still my go-to machine for serious structure welding, fabricating and field repairs.  Use 6010 on DC or 6011 on AC and the strong flux on these rods will cut thru grease, paint,  rust and dead chipmunks. 7014 and 7018 are a little prettier, have a little less splatter, and the slag chips off much easier than 6011/6010 but they won't tolerate crud as well.


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## Aaron_W (Oct 13, 2019)

epanzella said:


> Stick is the workhorse of welders. I think it should be everyone's first welder. You can't stick weld without having a basic knowledge of what welding is all about. Master a stick welder in all positions and you can move to any machine.  I have all 3 systems and the stick is still my go-to machine for serious structure welding, fabricating and field repairs.  Use 6010 on DC or 6011 on AC and the strong flux on these rods will cut thru grease, paint,  rust and dead chipmunks. 7014 and 7018 are a little prettier, have a little less splatter, and the slag chips off much easier than 6011/6010 but they won't tolerate crud as well.



I specifically bought a box of 6011 so I would be prepared to weld through dead chipmunks if the need arises.


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## rwm (Oct 13, 2019)

Aaron_W said:


> I specifically bought a box of 6011 so I would be prepared to weld through dead chipmunks if the need arises.


My Schnauzer has done this....
R


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## westerner (Oct 13, 2019)

Aaron_W said:


> I specifically bought a box of 6011 so I would be prepared to weld through dead chipmunks if the need arises.


Indeed. When the chipmunks get dried out, striking the arc gets tough. 6011 A/C can get thru the "insulation", but 7018 will test my patience.


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## john.k (Oct 13, 2019)

I was doing a night job once using cellulose rods..,and everyone in the  plant nextdoor was watching.......one woman said "It looked like you were sitting in the middle of a giant firework"...pity there wernt no utube then...........cellulose rods are great,but the spatter is something else.....all my arms and bald head got burn scars allover from the spatter of high amp cellulose......but you can thru penetrate 1/2" plate with no prep at all ,just a bit of a gap.....cellulose always restrike hot or cold.so you can do all the fancy pipe welds with them.


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## eugene13 (Oct 14, 2019)

Our city just erected a new water tower, when the tank was joined together the inside welds were MIG welded, this was the root pass, and when the outside was welded they used stick.  Any Ideas why?


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## wildcatfan (Oct 14, 2019)

eugene13 said:


> Our city just erected a new water tower, when the tank was joined together the inside welds were MIG welded, this was the root pass, and when the outside was welded they used stick.  Any Ideas why?



Just a guess, but i would say stick wwas used on the outer surface welds due to wind. 
Harder to shield mig without external hard wind shield/curtains.


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## epanzella (Oct 14, 2019)

The flux on a stick rod creates shielding gas and is not impervious to wind.  If you don't believe me try doing a stick weld in front of a fan. I don't know why they used MIG on the root. Maybe the spec called for no slag on the inside of the pipe? With MIG they could use shielding gas in the pipe to protect the inside.


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## Flyinfool (Oct 14, 2019)

Mig is also a lot faster than stick or tig. This lets them get the parts glued into position quickly and on to the next part so that the crane can go home sooner and stop running up the bill. Another thought is that MIG is a lot cleaner, if the inside were done with stick then all of that chipped off slag would have to be meticulously cleaned out of there. As mentioned, stick is not impervious to wind, but it can handle a lot more wind than MIG or TIG. When only half of the tank is up, there is not much difference between inside and outside.


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## jwmay (Oct 14, 2019)

I think it’s welding snobbery. The Joneses have a mig machine. I’d hate for them to see me out there with my chipping hammer and wire brush. How embarrassing!


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## gr8legs (Oct 14, 2019)

I took night courses at our Community College in all flavors of welding. Definitely time well spent. Now, having a choice between welding processes I seem to gravitate toward stick, but the reason is shop configuration and logistics.

My Idealarc 250 is always plugged in and the leads are easily accessible so it's just pull down the leads, click the switch and GO. I may have to turn the dial once to get an acceptable arc depending on the rod and material combination. Fastest setup option, slag removal not included.

To use the MIG (Miller 250X) machine I have to roll it out from its under-bench storage, unfurl the power cord and get it plugged into an outlet across the shop, then orient the hose and stinger - Second fastest option, some spatter to deal with. Pam spray and a needle scaler are your friends.

To use the TIG machine (a Miller 180 which sits on top of the Idealarc) I have to unfurl the leads, unwind the pedal cord, place the pedal somewhere convenient, turn on the gas, and then start fighting with the machine settings. Tied for seccond place, no slag, no spatter.

And then, another consideration: If I'm welding outside in the wind, the stick is best even with the time spent chipping  slag.

Related thread: https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/show-us-your-welders.16877/#post-387527


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## Downunder Bob (Oct 15, 2019)

I think MIG was chosen for a couple of reasons. 

1 As has been mentioned it is quicker getting the job set up and tacked into place, then the crane can go home. 

2. the root pass might have been specified in MIG because there is virtually no clean up required, and no slag to clean up so that the next pass can be run on a clean surface.


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## Downunder Bob (Oct 15, 2019)

Reminds one time I had to do a welding repair on the top end of the jib of a crane mounted on the deck of a ship. The crane was the forward most one and therefore up near the bow. We were at sea heading east from the cape of Good Hop (South Africa) to south coast of Australia

We were in the "Roaring 40's", and had a following sea so we were climbing up the back of each swell and running down the other side, occasionally the bow would plunge into the next swell wave, throwing a huge amount of water and sea spray all over the job and me. A great place to work, even without the presence of 36V A/C at around 140A. I had a bosuns chair lashed to the crane jib and secured myself to that. I was wearing a T shirt , with a heavy jumper over that and a canvas welding shirt and a nylon Parker over that, rubber washing up gloves with leather welding gloves over them etc, I was soaked, My helmet was of the type that you nod your head and it drops down over your face. So ready to start welding, as I nod my head my chin touched the metal zipper on the jacket the resulting shock would throw my head back and I'd lost the starting point of the weld.

The job had to be done, so I got one of the deck hands, who had been helping me with the rigging, to keep an eye on me, and as I nodded my head he would turn the welder on. It took us a couple of shots but then we got the timing right such that after nodding my head and lifting it up again my skin was away from the zipper. No shock and a good weld 

The job only;y took two 8g rods total of about 10 min welding but about 4 hours to set up another hour to make it happen and then 3 hours to pack up. A days work for 10 mins of welding.


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## NCjeeper (Oct 15, 2019)

jwmay said:


> I think it’s welding snobbery. The Joneses have a mig machine. I’d hate for them to see me out there with my chipping hammer and wire brush. How embarrassing!


Nah. The Joneses don't even know what a welder is. All they know are mini vans and Starbucks.


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## eugene13 (Oct 15, 2019)

wildcatfan said:


> Just a guess, but i would say stick wwas used on the outer surface welds due to wind.
> Harder to shield mig without external hard wind shield/curtains.
> 
> Thanks for the comments, everyone, that's what my welder son said.  I would like to hear some more bad position welding story's.


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## General Zod (Apr 12, 2020)

Y'all need to try HTP's stick welders.  This here little lunchbox will dance with the devil in the pale moon light.  It ain't scared of no rod (under 1/4" that is, lol).   One acquaintance of mine who also runs Lincoln Vantage 400 engine drives says it's above them in terms of arc dynamic/quality. 








I though stick welding was awesome _before_, now it's just _killer_!


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## ericc (Apr 12, 2020)

TIG is expensive, about a buck a foot with small tanks.  Stick is very cheap.  Unless I am doing something delicate, I just tack with TIG and take it outside for a stick weld.  Thin stuff gets 6013, plug welds get 6011 and medium carbon or stuff to be machined gets 7018.  I can just imagine the $$$ going out the end of the TIG cup.


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## Aukai (Apr 13, 2020)

If you can learn to drive a stick, you can drive a MIG(learn the sizzle), TIG may take some practice....With the right stick you can do more thickness in one pass than with gas, you make more root passes with the gas. I'm not a professional though....


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## Tim9 (Apr 13, 2020)

I love my little inverter Kutch stick / tig welder. Haven’t used the tig aspect of it but I use this little 200 amp stick welder more than my Tweco Fabricator and my Miller 211.
  I just love that welder. It’s light a quick and easy. In fact, I just used it yesterday because I wanted the added penetration plus I was using stainless steel sticks since I was finishing up a big strap door hinge which I was welding a stainless block to regulate steel barrel for the hinge pin. But like I say....it’s really my go to welder 75% of the time. Quick easy light and very affective. I thick stick is way too underrated and under appreciated by hobbyists. 
   And.....Northern Tools Klutch welders are really nice in my opinion.


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## General Zod (Apr 13, 2020)

Tim9 said:


> I love my little inverter Kutch stick / tig welder. Haven’t used the tig aspect of it but I use this little 200 amp stick welder more than my Tweco Fabricator and my Miller 211.
> I just love that welder. It’s light a quick and easy. In fact, I just used it yesterday because I wanted the added penetration plus I was using stainless steel sticks since I was finishing up a big strap door hinge which I was welding a stainless block to regulate steel barrel for the hinge pin. But like I say....it’s really my go to welder 75% of the time. Quick easy light and very affective. I thick stick is way too underrated and under appreciated by hobbyists.
> And.....Northern Tools Klutch welders are really nice in my opinion.



I agree, those Klutch welders do get great reviews on the welding forums.  Also their plasma cutters too.  I dunno who makes them for Klutch/Northern Tool, but it seems they did pick a great builder/supplier!


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## General Zod (Apr 16, 2020)

In case you guys haven't tried these electrodes, I really like them: Messer 80T-AC plus.  They are listed as an all-purpose rod with easy striking/re-striking so no problems on stick welders AC or DC that may have low OCV.  They run really nice and smooth, with very easy slag removal.  I'd say they run kinda like in between a E6013 and an E7018.


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## General Zod (Apr 17, 2020)

Finally a review video series on this cool little stick welder!   :lol: 









Next videos I'll do some arc shots with various electrodes.  Gotta get back into practice!


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## Eddyde (Apr 17, 2020)

Stick is the way to go for outdoor and heavy fabrication, welding.


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## NCjeeper (Apr 17, 2020)

^^^
Yep.


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## General Zod (Apr 22, 2020)

Part II


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## General Zod (Apr 22, 2020)

Part III


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## General Zod (Apr 26, 2020)

Part IV






Get them while they are still on sale with free electrodes.  It's a killer deal.


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## General Zod (Apr 30, 2020)

Just messin' around...

Just look at that snapshot!  Looks like a scene from Independence Day!


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