# Timken Bearing Oiling Question



## rfdes (Feb 17, 2014)

I realize this topic has been rehashed so many times but something is bothering me.

Recently, I've had my 10F headstock disassembled and took a look at the Timken bearings at that time.
Removing the press on dust covers, then pressing out the bearings, I took a look at how the oilers are configured. From what I could see, the oil actually drips down along the *side* of the bearing to the bottom of the bearing cavity. Unless the oil pools at the bottom high enough to flow onto the bearing rollers, I don't see how the bearings are actually getting oiled. At least that is how it looks to me. Am I missing something? If so, I need some help understanding. It sure seems to me that you would need to flood the oil cup to get enough oil down to the bearing to do any good. I keep seeing references to people putting felt into the oil cups to provide filtering as well as regulate the flow of oil into the bearing cavity. However, this also seems to contradict logic if my observation is true.

I would appreciate someone setting me straight on this. If anyone has a pictorial to share that would help highlight the proper oiling operation, that would certainly be appreciated.

Thanks for listening - Jim


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## Bill C. (Feb 17, 2014)

rfdes said:


> I realize this topic has been rehashed so many times but something is bothering me.
> 
> Recently, I've had my 10F headstock disassembled and took a look at the Timken bearings at that time.
> Removing the press on dust covers, then pressing out the bearings, I took a look at how the oilers are configured. From what I could see, the oil actually drips down along the *side* of the bearing to the bottom of the bearing cavity. Unless the oil pools at the bottom high enough to flow onto the bearing rollers, I don't see how the bearings are actually getting oiled. At least that is how it looks to me. Am I missing something? If so, I need some help understanding. It sure seems to me that you would need to flood the oil cup to get enough oil down to the bearing to do any good. I keep seeing references to people putting felt into the oil cups to provide filtering as well as regulate the flow of oil into the bearing cavity. However, this also seems to contradict logic if my observation is true.
> ...



Jim,

 I don't know either. My Dad would pack wheel bearings with grease. For one thing if the bearings are cleaned the grease would hold them in while re-assembling.  It will be interesting to read what others with experience on this matter will  answer this question.  

Good luck


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## mattygee (Feb 17, 2014)

As long as you put enough oil in to provide some splash lubrication you're good to go.  I use wheel bearing grease in my lathe, as I can't see the point in using oil on a bearing that is just as happy with grease and results in much less mess under the lathe.  Given the relatively slow speed and light loads involved I personally don't feel the need to get too worked up over lube type, as long as you're using something.  

M


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## Ulma Doctor (Feb 17, 2014)

Grease is suitable for lots of applications, but
Oil is better for transferring of heat in high speed or higher temperature applications. 
Oil offers lower friction in lower temperature operations as well.

On the atlas lathe, the dust rings create a oil reservoir for the bearings to run through.
there isn't much chance of over lubricating as the oil will simply flow over the dust caps if too much oil is applied.
I would put felt or homemade scotchbrite filters in my oil cups.

Many don't know that overpacking a bearing in grease will offer more rolling resistance and possibly cause overheating of the bearing:banghead:


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## Restorer (Feb 17, 2014)

NEVER use "Scotch Brite" anywhere near a machine tool or an engine.

The Scotch Brite polymer is embeded with aluminum oxide abrasive.

The abrasive will damage components rather quickly.


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## wa5cab (Feb 19, 2014)

Restorer,

They also make Scotchbrite or equivalent with no embedded abrasive.  I use it for polishing bakelite on vintage military radio parts.  Not easy to find, though.

Jim (& others),

Vehicle wheel bearings are packed with grease and work satisfactorily that way so long as the seals remain intact and you repack them every 30,000 miles or so.  But pulling off a wheel to check/change seals and inspect and repack the bearings is a relatively quick and simple operation.  

You can't just replace the oil cups with grease fittings because the single hole entry point at the top of the small end of the bearing would result in most of the grease that you pumped in just going out the dust cap gap.  Certainly little to none would ever find its way to the other end of the cone unless you block the gap between the cap and spindle.  Packing the bearings with grease during assembly and then planning to use oil may not work reliably as the grease could accumulate at the left and right ends where it could block the oil from getting to the rollers.  If a gob of it gets over the oil hole, no oil can get out of the cup.

It appears to me that the path of the oil would tend to be out of the hole onto the small end of the cup, across the face of the cup and under the ID (because of surface tension) where it would be picked up by the top rollers and distributed.  As mentioned previously, any that makes it to the bottom of the cavity will pool up to the level of the bottom of the larger diameter dust shield ID, which is above the outboard ends of the rollers.  Where it will again be picked up by the rollers and distributed.

Robert D.


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## BRIAN (Feb 19, 2014)

If you want to look at auto parts in regard to life look at pinion bearings in the rear end  running at high speed ( engine speed )and high side loads from the pinion,  we expect them to last the life of the car. splash lubed by the crown wheel with hd oil.

Brian.


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## VSAncona (Feb 19, 2014)

I use spindle oil in my headstock. The engineers at Atlas designed the lathes to be lubricated with oil and I figure they probably know more about it than I do. I don't see any benefit to using grease, not to mention that the downside is that grease acts as a magnet, attracting dirt, dust, chips, etc.


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## Dranreb (Feb 19, 2014)

Oil washes as it lubricates, use non detergent oil which will leave any particles lying pooled in the bottom of the dust caps. This can be seen if you remove caps that have been in place for a long time, it's grey and quite hard packed by vibration.

Detergent oil will keep the particles in suspension where they can damage the bearing surfaces over time, and is not advised.

Grease really isn't suitable in a lathe as it needs changing and redistributing for the above reasons, which is a lot of work that can easily be avoided.

Just my take on it,

Bernard

PS oil will also absorb condensation so as you constantly change it any emulsified oil gets washed away.

PPS My Atlas bearings are marked 1941, and good as new, seems that the oiling system works pretty effectively, no reason to change anything.


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## littlejack (Feb 22, 2014)

Good reading for sure.
  As another newbie, my Atlas QC54 has no felt or anything else in the oil cups. When I put oil in them (at the start of any turning) the oil
  does not stay in the cups. It drains right down into the bearings. 
   As stated by the original poster; Does the bearing get properly lubricated if a cup filler is used, i.e. felt or ?? Did the lathes originally come with some type of felt in
 the oil cups?
 I fill the oil cups (spindle bearings) a couple times when I am running the lathe. Is this too much, not necessary? Should I put a layer of felt in the cups to slow the oil from draining all at once into the bearings? I do not use the lathe hard at all.
  Just asking for my own information. 
  Jack


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## wa5cab (Feb 23, 2014)

Jack,

Early parts lists and manuals don't mention the felt plugs and almost all early machines up through the first version Commercial don't have them as-found.  They were added sometime between 1964 and 1975.  There were no revisions of the early parts manuals after about 1960 but in my opinion, the felt plugs should be retrofitted to all Timken bearing models that don't have them.  They aren't needed on the sleeve bearing 6".

Robert D.


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