# Need buying advice for Enco lathes



## ARC-170 (Nov 29, 2020)

I'm informally in the market for a lathe. I have an Atlas Craftsman 12x18, but it's just really dirty to use since it's an open bath oil system. I like it and use it and can make good parts with it, but I'd like something more modern (and clean), so I keep my eyes out for lathes. These came up for sale:

*LATHE #1*
Enco 110-0818 $1,000
This is smaller than what I have, I think. The price seems high, but what do I look for? What questions should I ask? The seller appears to be an antique shop of some kind.



This is the plug. Looks like a locking 220?



*LATHE #2*
Enco 110-2034
Seller (the original owner, per the ad) is asking $3000 for the lathe, an Enco mill (Rong-Fu clone), some tooling and vises and a 2-ton shop crane. The pictures in the ad were terrible, this is the best one of the lathe.
I think this one is similar to a Grizzly G9249, based on a little research I've done. I think it's also a 12x36, which is a little longer than what I have.



I'd appreciate any advice and comments. These are not real close to me, so I'd like to call the seller and ask some questions before making the drive.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 29, 2020)

I just heard from the seller of lathe #2. He wants $2200. Not sure what else it includes, though. I'll call and ask, but wanted to get some advice from you all before I did.


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 29, 2020)

The first lathe is a 9x20, useful but not ideal
The price is too high IMO.

the second lathe appears to be a 12x36.
A superior choice for capability.
The price is too high also

folks often overvalue their possessions


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## mickri (Nov 29, 2020)

Jeff you mention your craftsman lathe is dirty to use and has an open bath oil system.  I have a craftsman 12x36 and don't find that it is dirty to use.  Curious as to what you are referring to as an open bath oil system. 

Can't help you out with the Enco's.


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## NCjeeper (Nov 29, 2020)

Lathe #2 for sure. I have that version in 13x40 and it has been great. Bought it new in 2004.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 29, 2020)

mickri said:


> Jeff you mention your craftsman lathe is dirty to use and has an open bath oil system.  I have a craftsman 12x36 and don't find that it is dirty to use.  Curious as to what you are referring to as an open bath oil system.
> 
> Can't help you out with the Enco's.



Maybe I'm getting the name wrong, but I'm referring to the way the machine is oiled: the user squirts oil in the oilers and it drips down onto the bearings and then out. Also, the change gears have grease all over them and I get filthy changing them. I wear gloves and am careful, but I still get grease all over the machine and the table. I find myself not using the change gears since it's such a mess to change them. I thought I might get a QCGB, but these are about $750. I decided it might be better to apply the funds to a lathe with one. 
I do like my Atlas Craftsman, but I'd like to change the speeds more. I got used to doing it when I was working with the machines at the adult school and find that I miss it.
I'm in no hurry, but I keep my eyes out and ask questions so it something pops up, I can jump on it if it's a good deal.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 29, 2020)

Ulma Doctor said:


> The first lathe is a 9x20, useful but not ideal
> The price is too high IMO.
> 
> the second lathe appears to be a 12x36.
> ...



I agree that it's overvalued, but what is a fair price? A 9x10 at Harbor Freight is $730. Precision Matthews has a 12x36 for $3600, and MSC has Enco's for $1400 (9x20 with stand) and $3700 (12x36 with a stand). The stands are $500 and $300 respectively. Not sure why the smaller stand is more. So that means about $900 and $3400. My unofficial rule is to pay about half of new, so I'm thinking around $450 and $1700. Any tooling would add more to the price, or course, but I apply the same rule: half of new. Does that sound even close to fair, reasonable and realistic?


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## Aaron_W (Nov 29, 2020)

The first lathe is an Enco 9x20, you can find basically the same lathe sold as a 9x19 by Grizzly (G4000, $1450). Jet sold the same lathe for years, but their current model (BD-919 $2800) is an improved version adding some new features. These are an improved copy of the Emco Compact 8, the most obvious modification was adding a partial quick change gear box, mostly to control feed speeds, you still need to use change gears for threading.

The Harbor Freight "9x10" you mentioned for $700 is a *7*x10, and a completely different lathe. 

I bought an Enco just like it last year, but only paid $300. Mine looks like it is in better shape than that one but was missing the change gears, steady rest and follow rest, but it did have some other extras.

I'd say $1000 for that one is wishful thinking. The Jet branded ones are supposed to be higher quality, so can get more (and the new ones are definitely worth more, because they made some real improvements). That one just has the basic tooling that it came with, and appears to be missing some of that (no follow rest, no change gears, no 4 way tool post). $400-600 seems a more reasonable price to me for that particular example. I do see them listed for $1000, but they usually have a QCTP and some other tooling helping to justify that price. There is an older Jet on my local (SF Bay area) CL for $600 right now, and it looks like it has everything it came with.

I think they are a nice small lathe, but I think your Atlas is better with one exception, cutting metric threads which I assume yours can't. That was one of my excuses* for getting the Enco, it was cheaper than buying the metric gears for my 11x24.

*Really it was just a good deal, that was close by and I wanted it. I got it mostly as a tinkering lathe, there are a million modifications that people make to these lathes, and that seemed like a fun thing to do. At $300 how bad can I screw it up?


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## mickri (Nov 29, 2020)

Changing the gears would be messy.  I have a QCGB and the only time I touch a gear is the sliding gear to change between imperial and metric threading.  Cheaper to buy a lathe with a qcgb that to just buy the qcgb.  

Keep us posted on your search.


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 29, 2020)

I should have mentioned, i have a $1000 and a $1500 threshold.
To explain,
If the machine tool works without major trauma, I’ll pay somewhere about $1500
If the machine tool is torn up or missing parts, or I don’t need it, I will pay no more than $1000


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## ARC-170 (Nov 29, 2020)

*LATHE #2*
Lathe #2 is way too big for where I need to put it. The height and length are not a problem, but the depth is. I have a 24" deep bench top and the lathe is 30" deep. I cannot modify the bench or put the lathe anywhere else; it must go where the Atlas Craftsman is now.

*LATHE #1*
So that leaves lathe #1. I looked up the G4000 and change gears are $84. I find it odd that this lathe has a QCGB, but still needs change gears. At least these just need light oil and not grease. And the QCGB is for feed speeds, which is one reason I'm even considering buying this. I could get the change gears from Grizzly as long as they have the same hole size.
The follow rest is not available for a G4000. *1. Are accessories available anywhere else? 

2. What type of plug does it have (see pictures)?* I looked it up and it seems to have a locking 220V. The seller states it was tested, but buyers need to bring an adapter. *3. How would I test this? *Maybe bring a regular plug with bare wires at the end that I connect to the plug prongs on the one on the lathe? It makes we wonder if this is wired for 220 and not 110. I don't have 220. The G4000 is 110 and there doesn't appear to be an option to wire it for 220, at least not in the user manual.

*4. Does this use an AXA tool post?

5. What other questions should I ask about this particular model and this particular machine?*


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## mickri (Nov 29, 2020)

The plug could be a marine twist lock plug used to plug a shore power cord into dock power.  Also that type of plug is found on construction sites to keep long extension cords from falling out of the outlet.  They are sized based on the amount of rated amperage.  You can buy adapters to plug it into a regular outlet.  A mickey mouse way to test it would be to wrap the wires from another cord around the prongs and cover them with electrical tape.  If you buy it just replace the plug with a normal plug.

  I was looking online for info about enco 110-0818 lathes and came across the ad for this lathe.  Clicked on the more ads link and he also has two metal storage cabinets for sale.  He calls them drill cabinets.  I would ask him to throw in the cabinets as part of the deal.


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## Aaron_W (Nov 29, 2020)

Ulma Doctor said:


> I should have mentioned, i have a $1000 and a $1500 threshold.
> To explain,
> If the machine tool works without major trauma, I’ll pay somewhere about $1500
> If the machine tool is torn up or missing parts, *or I don’t need it*, I will pay no more than $1000



There should be a guide on this site for the proper way to buy things we don't need. It seems to be a common occurance.  




ARC-170 said:


> *LATHE #2*
> Lathe #2 is way too big for where I need to put it. The height and length are not a problem, but the depth is. I have a 24" deep bench top and the lathe is 30" deep. I cannot modify the bench or put the lathe anywhere else; it must go where the Atlas Craftsman is now.
> 
> *LATHE #1*
> ...



Most of the 9-11" import lathes have similar 1/2 gear boxes. Most use dials, this one uses a lever. You can switch between a few threads without changing gears, but the gear box is mostly intended to control the power feed speed. To me this is one of the biggest advantages to small vintage lathes, as most at least offered a QCGB for their lathes this size.

1. Some of the parts for the G4000 are available under a different number. They have two ways to look up parts, a downloadable parts list and "buy parts" which is a direct listing of the parts with prices and put it in the cart button. The list is out of date, but the second way will list the replacement part number. 1201A was the follow rest, it was replaced with 1201V2 and is available for $65.

MSC still sells these lathes, and should have parts. Grizzly is easy, so the parts I've needed I got there.

Little Machine Shop also has some stuff for these, I got my QCTP from them with the correct adaptor for this lathe.

2. They do make twist lock 120v plugs, somewhere on the plug is should have its rating and type. Mine was wired for 120v, but I think it can be wired for 240v as well, so I'd look at the plug and wiring, don't assume. Not sure why someone would wire it for 240v, it will run on a 120v 15A circuit with no issues.

3. I think your best bet would be to change the plug right there, assuming it is wired for 120v which I imagine it is. If you work up a price acceptable to both of you I don't see why you couldn't do that. Mine came with a standard 3 prong plug, so somebody added that.

4. They can use an OXA or an AXA QCTP, most people tend to go for the larger AXA.

5.

One other thing you might want to check, particularly if you want to use chucks from your Atlas with this one. Some have a 1-1/2"-8 spindle, and some have a metric M39 spindle. Since Enco sells theirs with the 1-1/2" spindle I thought they all came with that. Mine has a metric spindle which was a bit of a bummer, as I have 1-1/2" tooling for my other lathe.    

I'd ask about the change gears, it is not uncommon for these to get separated at estate sales, because they are just gears. The seller might have a box of gears that they don't know goes with the lathe, maybe the follow rest too. If nothing else point out the cost of replacing them and the follow rest during your negotiations.

If he won't budge on the price you can ask what he is smoking.   
These are not uncommon lathes, you will find another one for less if he won't deal. $500-600 is a much more realistic price to me if everything works. Other than being dirty (hope that is dirt and not rust) and missing a couple of easily replaced things it does look like it is in pretty decent and unmolested shape.
The Jet I mentioned was asking $600 and is now gone after less than 24 hours on CL, but it had everything it came with and was a Jet, which many feel is worth spending a little more for. 

Chuck has a good point too, if it is a store, maybe you can work the price on one end and get him to throw in something that catches you eye in the shop on the other. Maybe he has a nice worktable, tool chest or something else he could sweeten the deal with.


Like the 7x mini-lathes there is a large community of people surrounding these lathes, and there are a ton of improvements people have made to them.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 30, 2020)

*UPDATE:*
I texted the seller (they didn't return emails or my phone call) and they said the lathe sold for $1,000.

Thank you to all for your input, I really appreciate it. All this will be helpful when another machine comes up for sale.


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## Aaron_W (Nov 30, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> *UPDATE:*
> I texted the seller (they didn't return emails or my phone call) and they said the lathe sold for $1,000.
> 
> Thank you to all for your input, I really appreciate it. All this will be helpful when another machine comes up for sale.



Wow I'm surprised it sold for that much, but these are not uncommon and usually asking less.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 30, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> Wow I'm surprised it sold for that much, but these are not uncommon and usually asking less.



So am I. But, there's another one for sale that was listed 5 weeks ago and they are asking $1500. It's a G4000 (it's red). Here's the ad verbiage:
_9x20 metal lathe. Has grizzly plate but it’s a harbor freight model. Grizzly, hf, jet, and enco all made same lathe so parts are easy to get. Has new spindle bearings, new feed gear and comes with extra belts, quick change tool post, insert tooling, change gears, other set of jaws for chuck, steady rest, follow rest, and other miscellaneous parts. It’s about 40” tall x 38” wide x 18” deep. 3/4 motor 120v. Great lathe for small shop or just to make smaller parts on. Looking for $1,500 obo Thanks _

Here's a picture:



I sent them a message asking if it's still available.


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## Aaron_W (Nov 30, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> So am I. But, there's another one for sale that was listed 5 weeks ago and they are asking $1500. It's a G4000 (it's red). Here's the ad verbiage:
> _9x20 metal lathe. Has grizzly plate but it’s a harbor freight model. Grizzly, hf, jet, and enco all made same lathe so parts are easy to get. Has new spindle bearings, new feed gear and comes with extra belts, quick change tool post, insert tooling, change gears, other set of jaws for chuck, steady rest, follow rest, and other miscellaneous parts. It’s about 40” tall x 38” wide x 18” deep. 3/4 motor 120v. Great lathe for small shop or just to make smaller parts on. Looking for $1,500 obo Thanks _
> 
> Here's a picture:
> ...



So they are asking new prices for a used one...  Still if they are willing to deal I could see this one being worth $1000 with the, stand, QCTP and what sounds like a bit of extra tooling. That is a nicer stand than the factory stand that came with mine.

I'm still kind of blown away that someone would pay $1000 for that other one, when for just a couple hundred more they could have a new one, the Grizzlies go on sale for $1350 quite often.


Also keep in mind there is a chance the 25% tariffs on import lathes could go away next year, which could see the prices on new lathes drop. Won't go any further down that path, but you do have a working lathe, a little patience might save you some money.


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## ARC-170 (Nov 30, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> So they are asking new prices for a used one...  Still if they are willing to deal I could see this one being worth $1000 with the, stand, QCTP and what sounds like a bit of extra tooling. That is a nicer stand than the factory stand that came with mine.
> 
> I'm still kind of blown away that someone would pay $1000 for that other one, when for just a couple hundred more they could have a new one, the Grizzlies go on sale for $1350 quite often.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I'm often surprised what sellers ask and what buyers pay. I can get a new one for about $1700 delivered. The stand would be about $250 more. I won't pay "new" prices from a private party or some store on CL or FB. I often wonder if these people do any research.


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 30, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> So am I. But, there's another one for sale that was listed 5 weeks ago and they are asking $1500. It's a G4000 (it's red). Here's the ad verbiage:
> _9x20 metal lathe. Has grizzly plate but it’s a harbor freight model. Grizzly, hf, jet, and enco all made same lathe so parts are easy to get. Has new spindle bearings, new feed gear and comes with extra belts, quick change tool post, insert tooling, change gears, other set of jaws for chuck, steady rest, follow rest, and other miscellaneous parts. It’s about 40” tall x 38” wide x 18” deep. 3/4 motor 120v. Great lathe for small shop or just to make smaller parts on. Looking for $1,500 obo Thanks _
> 
> Here's a picture:
> ...


here is a prediction.....
the lathe was purchased to tinker with.
(maybe) after turning a couple of small projects (poorly or possibly flinging a key from the chuck into the ceiling), the thrill was gone.
the new found joy was to set in in limbo waiting for a new set of hands, to really learn to use the poor machine tool.

they are like little horses, in comparison, they need to run instead of set lifeless in the stable

new bearings indicates to me it was run less than 2 hours


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## ARC-170 (Dec 1, 2020)

Anyone ever heard of this brand: MINGX (I think). Here's a link to the lathe: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/201058001477102

The pictures appear to be of two different lathes. I looked up both the MX-210V and the WM180V and it appears to be an 8 x 16, similar to the G0768. It might be too small, but I've never needed to make anything bigger (famous last words!).


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## Aaron_W (Dec 1, 2020)

I think that is one of the generic 8x14 lathes. I've been seeing these pop up on CL used often for not much less that you can get them for new on eBay.

Here is one that looks similar for $675.

8x14 lathe

They say 8x14, not sure if that is a more realistic measurement or if it is actually shorter than the 8x16 you can find from Grizzly and others. It does look a little different than the 8x16 Grizzly sells at twice the price. In particular Grizzly's G0768 has a knob to change direction, and that space is blank on the ebay lathe.

$600 for a G0768 or WBL210 would seem a fair price, but not so much if you can get the same lathe new for $75 more.


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## macardoso (Dec 1, 2020)

I have that second lathe (the Enco 110-2034). Very capable machine and a great size for a serious hobbyist. I paid $1100 for mine and it came with one 6" 3 jaw chuck. $2200 is too steep IMO. depends on your area. I'm in Cleveland and we have a lot of machines available.

I needed to buy a toolpost, a 4 jaw chuck, and all the change gears to do metric and offsize inch threads. I do not have a steady or a follow rest, although I have not needed them.

Condition on mine was great except for dirt and a banged up stand.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 1, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> Anyone ever heard of this brand: MINGX (I think). Here's a link to the lathe: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/201058001477102
> 
> The pictures appear to be of two different lathes. I looked up both the MX-210V and the WM180V and it appears to be an 8 x 16, similar to the G0768. It might be too small, but I've never needed to make anything bigger (famous last words!).



I called this place up. They have no idea what it is or what it comes with, just that there is a box with some parts in it, along with the machine. The person I talked to said they have 2 machines, which might explain the different machines in the pictures. A new G0768 is $1350 and they are asking $600 for this one.
Is this a fair price if it comes with the change gears, 3- and 4-jaw chucks, steady rest, follow rest, etc?

*Here's my question for you all: Is a 9x20 really a major step up, so I should wait, or is this 8x16 a good deal and a good machine for the home hobbyist?*


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## mickri (Dec 1, 2020)

I think that these lathes are a step down from your craftsman 12x18.  The only thing your craftsman is missing is a qcgb.  On these lathes you still have to deal with change gears.  So you are getting a smaller lathe with the same thing that you don't like about your craftsman lathe.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 1, 2020)

mickri said:


> I think that these lathes are a step down from your craftsman 12x18.  The only thing your craftsman is missing is a qcgb.  On these lathes you still have to deal with change gears.  So you are getting a smaller lathe with the same thing that you don't like about your craftsman lathe.



The thing I don't like about my current lathe is that it's really messy. I thought maybe the change gears on this small one would be less so, but you make a good point. The next size up Grizzly, and I'm assuming similar lathes as well, has a QCGB and a power cross feed. These smaller lathes don't have a power cross feed, which is not a huge deal, but it is nice. My Craftsman has a power cross feed that I've used a few times and I liked it.

I can wait. The more I look the more I learn.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 1, 2020)

I agree with @mickri on that lathe being a step down. It’s smaller which equals less rigid. It also has 3” less swing and that’s not a trade off I’d make. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## macardoso (Dec 2, 2020)

The sheer mass of the lathe to me would make the biggest difference because that is the limiting factor on the depth of cut you can take, the accuracy of your finish cuts, and your enjoyment. Compare the import 9" lathes with some of the rare high quality ones like an EMCO (not ENCO). The Emco is tremendously more heavy for the same travel size and this is for good reason.

If you are used to working on a heavy 12" swing lathe, I bet you'll be disappointed when a tiny lathe squawks at you for pushing it a little too hard.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Dec 2, 2020)

I think you'd really be better off waiting for a generic 12x36 to turn up, or maybe a Heavy 10 or Sheldon equivalent. Anything less will just trade one problem (messy change gears) for another (lack of rigidity, lack of size etc). Send Ulma Doc a message, that guy has a sixth sense for machine tool deals


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## Aaron_W (Dec 2, 2020)

I agree with Chuck, unless your Craftsman has issues, worn out etc, I'm not seeing these as any better than what you have. I assume you are limited in length to something in the 3 foot range? That is a pretty significant limitation as most of the 10x24 lathes that you could find with a QCGB (Logan, Southbend, Atlas / Craftsman, Jet 1024) are going to be about 4 feet long.



macardoso said:


> The sheer mass of the lathe to me would make the biggest difference because that is the limiting factor on the depth of cut you can take, the accuracy of your finish cuts, and your enjoyment. Compare the import 9" lathes with some of the rare high quality ones like an EMCO (not ENCO). The Emco is tremendously more heavy for the same travel size and this is for good reason.
> 
> If you are used to working on a heavy 12" swing lathe, I bet you'll be disappointed when a tiny lathe squawks at you for pushing it a little too hard.



The 9" import lathes are a copy of the Emco Compact 8, and they weigh almost double what the Compact 8 did (128lbs vs 250lbs). The Compact 8 was probably built to a higher standard, but looking at features, these days I think the clones are probably a better option, than buying an original when you consider what people pay for Emco's and the lack of support for them. Even the 8x16 lathes outweigh the Compact 8, most weighing 160+ pounds. Kind of ironic as the design has become so popular, but the Compact 8 seems to be the dud of the Emco lathes.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 2, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> I agree with Chuck, unless your Craftsman has issues, worn out etc, I'm not seeing these as any better than what you have. I assume you are limited in length to something in the 3 foot range? That is a pretty significant limitation as most of the 10x24 lathes that you could find with a QCGB (Logan, Southbend, Atlas / Craftsman, Jet 1024) are going to be about 4 feet long.



I'm limited on depth. The workbench this will be mounted on is 24" deep and I cannot make it any deeper or it will interfere with the wife parking the minivan. That's a huge deal, since I already have taken over most of the garage. The 12x36 I mentioned in the first post would be a good choice if it wasn't so huge; it's 30" deep.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 2, 2020)

macardoso said:


> The sheer mass of the lathe to me would make the biggest difference because that is the limiting factor on the depth of cut you can take, the accuracy of your finish cuts, and your enjoyment. Compare the import 9" lathes with some of the rare high quality ones like an EMCO (not ENCO). The Emco is tremendously more heavy for the same travel size and this is for good reason.
> 
> True, but the Atlas Craftsman I have is not known for being particularly rigid. The weak point is the compound. I can make a cut about 0.025" in steel before the lathe bogs down. That's with lube, a sharp bit, slow feed rate and proper RPM. Knowing this, I adjust my workflow accordingly.
> 
> If you are used to working on a heavy 12" swing lathe, I bet you'll be disappointed when a tiny lathe squawks at you for pushing it a little too hard.





mattthemuppet2 said:


> I think you'd really be better off waiting for a generic 12x36 to turn up, or maybe a Heavy 10 or Sheldon equivalent. Anything less will just trade one problem (messy change gears) for another (lack of rigidity, lack of size etc). Send Ulma Doc a message, that guy has a sixth sense for machine tool deals



I'm pretty sure a 12x36 is too big, but I might be able to get a 10x-- on the bench.

If anyone has a 12x36, let me know how deep it really is. I'm just relying on the dimensions the seller gave me, and what I could find in various manuals for similar lathes. 
Maybe it would help if I showed you a picture of where this will need to go:


The column to the left of the lathe is 45-1/2" from the right end of the bench. It's 9" wide and sticks out 4-3/4", leaving 19-1/2" clear. The bench is 24-1/4" deep everywhere else. Length is not an issue; I got another 8 feet to the left.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 2, 2020)

I found another lathe for sale. It's a far drive for me, though. He's asking $2500. It was listed 14 weeks ago. It's an Enco 110-2031, which is a 12 x 58, I think, which is probably too large. I've asked the seller to tell me some dimensions. There's not a lot of info about this. Thoughts? Anyone own this lathe?


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## mickri (Dec 3, 2020)

Found this thread on the forum.   Enco 110-2031 Lathe Newbie Questions | The Hobby-Machinist (hobby-machinist.com) 

The grizzly G9249 is similar.  Here is the manual.   g9249_m.pdf (grizzly.com) 

The forum in downloads has several enco manuals.  Not the best copy.

Found some drawings for Jet 12 inch lathes that are also similar.  The width from the back to the very tip of the handles in the front is 27.5" to 28"   It would just barely fit on your bench.  This is one big lathe.


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## macardoso (Dec 3, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> I found another lathe for sale. It's a far drive for me, though. He's asking $2500. It was listed 14 weeks ago. It's an Enco 110-2031, which is a 12 x 58, I think, which is probably too large. I've asked the seller to tell me some dimensions. There's not a lot of info about this. Thoughts? Anyone own this lathe?
> View attachment 345990



This is again a 12" lathe similar to the Grizzly G9249. The notable difference is that the Enco has an MT2 tailstock without a graded handwheel while the Grizzly uses an MT3 with the handwheel.

Just throwing an idea out here... Can you take an aluminum plate or even some thick plywood and extend the lathe slightly beyond the front of the bench? Not asking for it to be hanging off, but just enough to give you an extra inch or two.

The manual lists the depth at 27 inches, although much of that is the handwheels. I measured the meat of mine an it is 23" with the handwheels sticking out an additional 4".

$2500 is a LOT for this lathe where I live. I'm happy with the $1100 I paid. Many have gotten better deals than that. It is missing the chip pan which is no longer available from Grizzly. I'd pay up to $1500 personally unless it came with a LOT of tooling. Check for the standard accessories like an 8" 4 jaw, the steady and follow rests, and the full set of change gears. Nice lathe tho.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 3, 2020)

I looked at all of the 12" lathes sold by Grizzly and PM and they are all wider than 24", most list a width of about 29". From what I understand the 12" Craftsman was really just a 10" Atlas lifted to give it a 12" swing, but with the same bed width which is why yours is narrower than most of the 12" lathes you are looking at.

With your width constraints you may find that your best option is an older 10-11" lathe with a QCGB.

None of the current lathes under 12" have a full QCGB, but vintage USA and older imports from the 80s did. Something like a Jet 1024 for the imports, and most of the old USA made lathes of this size had them as an option. The Southbend Heavy 10 and many 11" lathes have a 1-3/8" spindle bore which would be more than your current lathe which I assume is around 3/4". Some of the later 10" lathes had a 1" spindle bore, and most of the 11" lathes have a 1-3/8" spindle bore so trading a little swing for a QCGB, longer bed, possibly a bigger spindle bore seems a fair trade.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 3, 2020)

mickri said:


> Found this thread on the forum.   Enco 110-2031 Lathe Newbie Questions | The Hobby-Machinist (hobby-machinist.com)
> 
> The grizzly G9249 is similar.  Here is the manual.   g9249_m.pdf (grizzly.com)
> 
> ...



Thanks, Chuck! This didn't show up in my searches for some reason. It looks like this lathe needs way more room than I have, so I think I'll have to go with something smaller.
The dimension I really need is from the back of the metal box on the headstock to the front of the feet. The handles can overhang, but the lathe can't.


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## macardoso (Dec 3, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> Thanks, Chuck! This didn't show up in my searches for some reason. It looks like this lathe needs way more room than I have, so I think I'll have to go with something smaller.
> The dimension I really need is from the back of the metal box on the headstock to the front of the feet. The handles can overhang, but the lathe can't.



That dimension is roughly 17-18"


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## ARC-170 (Dec 3, 2020)

macardoso said:


> This is again a 12" lathe similar to the Grizzly G9249. The notable difference is that the Enco has an MT2 tailstock without a graded handwheel while the Grizzly uses an MT3 with the handwheel.
> 
> Just throwing an idea out here... Can you take an aluminum plate or even some thick plywood and extend the lathe slightly beyond the front of the bench? Not asking for it to be hanging off, but just enough to give you an extra inch or two.
> 
> ...



I don't think I can make an overhang since this is already encroaching on the garage space.

The dimension I really need is from the back of the metal housing on the headstock to the font of the feet. The handles can stick out a bit. I called the seller and they are getting dimensions for me. When I talk to them again, I'll ask about what else it comes with.

$2500 is too much here, too, I think. I wonder if there's been a spike in prices due to people thinking they can get into machining while under quarantine?

I'm beginning to think this is too big anyway.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 3, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> I looked at all of the 12" lathes sold by Grizzly and PM and they are all wider than 24", most list a width of about 29". From what I understand the 12" Craftsman was really just a 10" Atlas lifted to give it a 12" swing, but with the same bed width which is why yours is narrower than most of the 12" lathes you are looking at.
> 
> With your width constraints you may find that your best option is an older 10-11" lathe with a QCGB.
> 
> None of the current lathes under 12" have a full QCGB, but vintage USA and older imports from the 80s did. Something like a Jet 1024 for the imports, and most of the old USA made lathes of this size had them as an option. The Southbend Heavy 10 and many 11" lathes have a 1-3/8" spindle bore which would be more than your current lathe which I assume is around 3/4". Some of the later 10" lathes had a 1" spindle bore, and most of the 11" lathes have a 1-3/8" spindle bore so trading a little swing for a QCGB, longer bed, possibly a bigger spindle bore seems a fair trade.



I think you are right; I need to look for 10"-11" lathes with a QCGB and I'd get a bigger spindle bore.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 3, 2020)

macardoso said:


> That dimension is roughly 17-18"



Thanks. Just to confirm, and show everyone what I'm looking for, here's a sketch:


The "A" depth is what is given in the manuals. What I need is the "B" depth. The red lines represent the table and wall. Also, do I need any clearance behind the lathe? I guess it depends on where the cord comes out.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 3, 2020)

I would think you would want at least room to get your hand between the lathe and the wall for air circulation, room for covers to open and cleaning behind it. So maybe 1-2 inches?


I went and measured my 11x24" Powermatic. The lathe itself is 17" deep (A), and about 19" (B) where the furthest handle sticks out. It is on a stand though, with the motor and speed control in the base so probably not the easiest to convert to bench use. The stand is 24" wide (A), and the speed control handle sticks out a couple inches so 26-27" at the widest point (B). This is just one handle though about 5" in diameter, everything else is contained within the 24" stand so maybe you could work around that.

This lathe is based on a Logan 11" lathe, so I would expect a Logan 11" would be almost identical in size. A Southbend Heavy 10 is also probably pretty close in size. These are all much heavier duty than an Atlas / Craftsman, Logan 10" or Southbend "light" 10.  


There are some weird (not well known) lathes out there. When you get away from the well known brands sometimes you can find some real deals. I think Southbend adds 25% off the top just because people know the name. A lot of the early Taiwanese lathes have very foreign sounding names so get dismissed as "cheap imports", but are apparently pretty good machines. The Jet 1024 is one of these and I'm pretty sure it was sold by others (one of the few import 10x24 lathes with a full QCGB). 


The Powermatic lathes are kind of unusual and don't seem to go for as high prices as similar USA made lathes since a lot of people don't know what they are or assume they are imports since they have the square blocky style of a newer lathe, not the rounded art deco styling of most of the classic smaller vintage USA lathes. They were only made from the early 1970s to about mid 1980s. Logan is still in business and offers parts support even for the weird "Powermatic by Logan" lathes. Not cheap, but parts are available which is nice. 

Rockwell is another USA brand that doesn't seem to get much attention other than the Delta / Rockwell bandsaws. I've seen some 10 and 11" Rockwell lathes, but have no experience with them to know if they are worth looking for, I expect they might be a good option for you, but no idea on parts availability.



The particular lathe I have is a real oddball. After Powermatic introduced the new lathe designs in the 1970s, they dropped 10" lathes from the line up. There must have been a demand because they soon added one which was just the 11" lathe with a smaller spindle. Mine is one of these so called 10" lathes, it has a 1-1/2"-8 threaded spindle with a 1" bore, but an 11-1/8" swing the same as the "real" 11" lathe. The 11" came with a 2-1/4" threaded, L00 or D1-4 spindle with a 1-3/8" bore. Both are variable speed using an adjustable pully and a hand wheel (I think this is called a Reeves drive), pretty simple but a little noisy. All you have to do to change speed is crank the hand wheel, no belt changes are required.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 3, 2020)

Aaron_W: Thanks for the info, much appreciated. I'm not sure any lathe with the motor mounted under will work for my needs. Some of the ones I've seen (and not posted) have huge motors hanging off the back and wouldn't work, either.

I think I'm looking for an early Taiwanese machine with a swing in the 9"-11" range that has a QCGB, power cross-feed and that is less than 24" in depth. They pop up enough on CL and FB, so I just need to keep an eye out.


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## mickri (Dec 3, 2020)

Another option may be to make a mount to put the motor over the top of the headstock instead of behind it.  Might even be able to mount it on the wall above and behind the lathe with a spring loaded belt tensioner.  Of course the ideal is to find the lathe you want that fits in the available space.  Then again you might even luck into a qcgb for your current lathe at a reasonable price.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 10, 2020)

I got more info *and questions* about the lathe in post #32.

He's asking $2,500. It's an Enco 110-2031. He mentioned it was his dad's. It weighs 1,024 lbs. (no stand), if it's the same lathe as the G9249. I found another manual for a 110-2033 that states a weight of 330 kg (728 lbs). I'm not sure which one is right, but I'll go with the heavier one just to be safe.

Here are some pictures of the components. *Does anyone see any issues?*












It appears it will just barely fit on my workbench. I will have an inch of clearance in the back, maybe a little more if I can move it forward a bit. I have 4x4's supporting a 25 Ga steel u-channel frame supporting a 1.5" thick plywood top. The 4x4's are bolted to the wall and the floor. *I think this will hold it just fine, but let me know if you know otherwise.*

I have a few other machines I need to put on the table as well: a metal bandsaw, a wood bandsaw and a grinder. I put the lathe on the right so I'd have room to stick something out the spindle if needed. I could also move the lathe left a little and put the grinder on the right. It's for grinding lathe bits.

I drew a plan view:



*What is a fair and reasonable price for this machine?* Precision Matthews and Grizzly have comparable machines from $2400 to $3800. Add a couple hundred for delivery and tax. It's quite a drive, so I'd like to see if this machine is worth it and if the seller will come down before driving out there.


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## macardoso (Dec 11, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> I got more info *and questions* about the lathe in post #32.
> 
> He's asking $2,500. It's an Enco 110-2031. He mentioned it was his dad's. It weighs 1,024 lbs. (no stand), if it's the same lathe as the G9249. I found another manual for a 110-2033 that states a weight of 330 kg (728 lbs). I'm not sure which one is right, but I'll go with the heavier one just to be safe.
> 
> ...



Not sure if I mentioned it here or on another post, but I paid $1100 for this lathe (2) years ago. It only had a 6" 3 jaw chuck and was really dirty, but otherwise in great mechanical condition. This was in Cleveland, OH so add a bit to that number (we have a ton of used machines).

I really don't think the lathe is 1000 lbs. Maybe 8-900. I have 5 manuals for this lathe from various importers and they all use different measurements of the machine weight.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 11, 2020)

The totes stacked on the ways in a photo being used to advertise it (post 32) don't inspire confidence in its care and maintenance. This is probably more an issue of the seller not being into machining, so hopefully it had better care for most of its life. 

I don't know about a good price for this lathe, as it is kind of an oddity with that long bed. I think you are right though, buying new you are looking at $4000 give or take to your door, so depending on condition and what it comes with $2000 doesn't seem like a bad deal. 

Parts could be an issue, I'm not seeing anything similar at MSC, Grizzly or PM.  

Some of the older Enco lathes were made in Taiwan, if that is the case with this one would be a plus. The fact the seller sent you more photos (without totes on the lathe) is a good sign.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 11, 2020)

I Photoshopped the lathe onto my bench. Does this look about right? It's not perfectly aligned, but I'm mainly looking to see if the size looks right. the green behind it is my current lathe.


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## mickri (Dec 11, 2020)

One good thing about this lathe is that you will never need to upgrade to bigger lathe.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 11, 2020)

macardoso said:


> Not sure if I mentioned it here or on another post, but I paid $1100 for this lathe (2) years ago. It only had a 6" 3 jaw chuck and was really dirty, but otherwise in great mechanical condition. This was in Cleveland, OH so add a bit to that number (we have a ton of used machines).
> 
> I really don't think the lathe is 1000 lbs. Maybe 8-900. I have 5 manuals for this lathe from various importers and they all use different measurements of the machine weight.



I was thinking this was in the $1500 or less range, but other lathes like this have sold for more recently. However, this one has been for sale for about 3 months, so I think it's overpriced.

I've seen different weights as well. I have a scale and an engine hoist; I could take them with me and weight it.



Aaron_W said:


> The totes stacked on the ways in a photo being used to advertise it (post 32) don't inspire confidence in its care and maintenance. This is probably more an issue of the seller not being into machining, so hopefully it had better care for most of its life.
> 
> I don't know about a good price for this lathe, as it is kind of an oddity with that long bed. I think you are right though, buying new you are looking at $4000 give or take to your door, so depending on condition and what it comes with $2000 doesn't seem like a bad deal.
> 
> ...



I think you are right about the seller not being into machining. I'll have to ask about the history.

Like I stated above, I'm thinking less than $2,000, but you make a good point. Let me know if I'm too low. I'm not afraid to ask the seller, they can just say no and/or counter. I'm just trying to find out what an appropriate price is. Seems like it would be less than the $2500 asking price, but more than $1,000.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 11, 2020)

If that lathe is really 12x58 then your photo shop looks short, a lathe that size would be about 7 feet long. Looking at it again though I'm doubting the 58" between centers, maybe it is measured like Southbend giving bed length rather than between centers?

I don't really follow lathes this size that closely, but if you could get it for $1500-2000 I'd think you did pretty well. Considering that is seems to fit your space where many other 12" lathes don't that alone might be worth accepting the sellers price assuming it is in decent shape.

It does seem to me that locally machines have been drying up on CL the past several months. Not sure if is seasonal, Covid related or something else.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 11, 2020)

Aaron_W said:


> If that lathe is really 12x58 then your photo shop looks short, a lathe that size would be about 7 feet long. Looking at it again though I'm doubting the 58" between centers, maybe it is measured like Southbend giving bed length rather than between centers?
> 
> I don't really follow lathes this size that closely, but if you could get it for $1500-2000 I'd think you did pretty well. Considering that is seems to fit your space where many other 12" lathes don't that alone might be worth accepting the sellers price assuming it is in decent shape.
> 
> It does seem to me that locally machines have been drying up on CL the past several months. Not sure if is seasonal, Covid related or something else.



The seller said the whole machine is 63" long. I think it's a 12x36.

I suspect the dearth of machines has to do with COVID and it being winter and close to the holidays. I bet here will be lots of machines available after the new year.


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## Aaron_W (Dec 11, 2020)

ARC-170 said:


> The seller said the whole machine is 63" long. I think it's a 12x36.
> 
> I suspect the dearth of machines has to do with COVID and it being winter and close to the holidays. I bet here will be lots of machines available after the new year.



Yeah, 63" would make sense for a 12x36, my 11x24 is 55" long including the base.

That is what I've been thinking too. CL was still pretty active this summer, but except for some really overpriced stuff has really dropped off recently. makes for some very boring window shopping, but at least it keeps the impulse buys down. I have enough projects to keep me busy for awhile as it is.


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## ARC-170 (Dec 14, 2020)

I found a lathe like mine with a QCGB. It came up when I was searching for a lathe. I bought it because it has a QCGB and a ton of other tooling. I will try putting the QCGB on my lathe and selling the other one and all the tooling it came with, keeping a few goodies for myself. I think I will be able to make all my money back and get the QCGB for "free". It will keep Her Majesty happy as well. Wouldn't want to **** off the Queen! Ha! I jest, she's awesome, but gives me the stink eye when I buy tools.

The Enco is nice, but I think it's just too big. Sellers are getting over $2,000 for these machines (as of Dec, 2020) and that's just too much. This one is also a bit too far of a drive. I appreciate all the help and input and will reference it again if my QCGB switch doesn't work as planned. I also hope this thread provides advice for anyone else looking for an Enco.


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## Lsimmons (Mar 11, 2021)

I am enjoying reading this post, thanks.


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