# Ripped off on e bay



## mrbreezeet1 (Feb 14, 2014)

Hope this group was OK for this, Mods please move if not. 
Here is the ad.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251447115994...84.m1439.l2649

He had $250.00 plus shipping, I asked for a price with out the tools. 
Nothing I couldnt live without. We agreed on $175.00 & $50.00  shipping, Total of $225.00. Said in ad just needed refinished. Normal  scratches,
 look at the pictures in the ad. 

See my pictures for what was left out.
I wrote him back, said I wanted full refund, plus postage to sent the POS back. 
Either that , or send me back $175.00 and I'll keep it. 
It is worth $50.00. (but still reeds major work on side panel and top)
What does he think, he is gonna pull that crap, and the buyer is just gonna take it laying down.


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## R_Audano (Feb 14, 2014)

Perhaps it was damaged in shipping.
I've studied the photos and cannot see that kind of damage on the ad.

Did we have shipping insurance?

I've been ripped off by both sellers and buyers but this looks like shipping damage.


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## autonoz (Feb 14, 2014)

I agree. It looks like shipping damage.


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## Dave Smith (Feb 14, 2014)

don't get overly agressive with the seller--just send him pictures of how it arrived and work with him as far as the insurance coverage is--I'm sure the insurance will make satisfactory  ammends with you.--Dave---just takes a little time


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## GK1918 (Feb 14, 2014)

Yea shipping.   Anyone see on TV Fed Ex throwing things out of the truck like a paper boy does??  The driver never even stopped, just
flung it out the door. caught on tape


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## george wilson (Feb 14, 2014)

Was there anything in the packing that could have caused that cross hatched impressed damage seen on the top edge of the box? That in itself could point out whether this was shipping damage or previous damage.


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## xalky (Feb 14, 2014)

I'm pretty sure that thing was damaged in shipping. The seller needs to put in a claim with the shipper. Things have to be packed with the idea that these things will get dropped from a height of 10 ft. I'm not kidding. The heavier the item is the more it has to be protected on all sides. 2-3 inches of rigid foam all around probably would have saved that box from the carnage. It's not just UPS, all the shippers do the same thing. The heavier the item is, the more it gets thrown around.


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## 12bolts (Feb 14, 2014)

You need to carefully check the packaging for clues. Then you can make a decision on whether the damage occurred in transit or was obscured/omitted by the seller.
In any case the seller did misrepresent what was for sale in the ad. Shows a box full of tools, but forgot to mention tools not included.............. Interesting to note that he mentions specifically that some felt needs replacing but offers no image of the deterioration. His rep shows some other less than happy buyers. From comments he seems to avoid pointing out the glaring problems.

cheers Phil


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## master53yoda (Feb 14, 2014)

File a claim with Ebay's buyer protection plan.  You have 45 days to file that claim Ebay will get in the middle and resolve the problem or give you back your money.   It does look like shipping damage to me as well.    

I had a gear vendors overdrive that i bought for 1800 and it was bad.   I tore it down first to take pictures by the time i got to filing the claim i missed the 45 day deadline by 2 days so i was out the 500 it took to fix it.  Lesson learned on the 45 days.

Good Luck


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## mrbreezeet1 (Feb 14, 2014)

OK thanks Guys, No I didn't get too aggressive. There was not foam all around the box, I think he had somebody like going postal pack it. 
It could be shipping damage. 
We will see what happens.


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## rafe (Feb 14, 2014)

I'm tired of e-bay


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## therbig (Feb 15, 2014)

Wow - I had been looking at this EXACT same tool chest and then suddenly I found that it was sold to a lower bidder (you  ).  Given that I was ready to pay full price, I would have felt even more duped than you!

Doesn't make it better for you, though.  It could be shipping damage, but I'm not convinced.  Take a careful look at picture #5 in the original listing.  Zoom in and pan over to the left, and it looks like the front and the side are bulging out quite a bit.  Really hard to see because it's blurry, but it seems quite consistent with what you're seeing now.

I'm also concerned that all other pictures avoid showing this part of the chest.  Don't want to accuse the seller, but if he had wanted to hide this damage, he did it quite well. 

I hope you can resolve this without too much pain!  Good luck!

Tom


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## xalky (Feb 15, 2014)

Ebay buyer protection is pretty good. I had to use it once for a vendor that sold dry chemicals for gold refining. He never even shipped the item, didn't answer my e-mail inquiries. About 2 weeks after filing my claim, Ebay refunded my money, and he was booted from ebay. When I purchased my item he'd had 99% good feedback, but a string of bad ratings ensued right after I bought my item. You have to put a claim in with Ebay ASAP, then give the guy a chance to make good. If he doesn't, you have to let ebay know, and they'll try to resolve it. You'll in all likelihood get a resolution, but it might take a month or so if ebay has to refund you the money. My experience.

Marcel


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## Kroll (Feb 15, 2014)

I have sold and purchase alot of items off of ebay,due to my past purchasing mistakes I have learned alot.One is check out the sellers feed back rating,ask more questions and for more pics or better pics.Which at times I think is deliberately bad hidding the flaws or just the good side is showed.One of the most important question is what shipping service,tracking #'s and how it will be package.(Ex-2" fostner bit in an envelope,envelope made it bit did not)Over the yrs items that I purchase were package perfectly while others were poor and damage.If a seller does not answer questions then I don't purchase the item.I have been taken advantage of at times on ebay and by couple of dishonest members on another forum,but to put things in our advantage the best advice is to ask alot of questions.Sorry to hear this cause I have always wanted one of those vintage tool boxes,*GOOD LUCK* Mr.Breeze


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## toag (Feb 15, 2014)

I buy and sell on ebay and have had mostly good results.  I tend to buy mic and dtis but only ones in cases!  when shippiing I only use USPS, and have had no complaints.  more packing is better than less, and filling up the interstitial volume (I use crumpled newspaper) helps to prevent things moving and getting dinged up.


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## george wilson (Feb 15, 2014)

I ordered a blouse for my wife and was sent one which was not the same as in the picture. The seller immediately refunded the money(the return shipping cost exceeded the blouse's value). Most sellers seem anxious to protect their ebay reputation. I have not yet had a big problem with anyone. Guess I'm lucky.


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## darkzero (Feb 15, 2014)

I agree with George, it seems to me the days where getting screwed on ebay are mostly gone. Bad transactions/reputation can hurt the seller if they plan to continue to sell on ebay on a regular basis. I've never been screwed on ebay in the past 10+ years since I started using it, buying or selling.

I've only had 2 issues & both turned out good. Bought an Armstrong knurler descibed to have a 5/8 x 5/8 shank. Turned out it was not 5/8 height, only width. Contacted the seller & they refunded the entire purchase price plus shipping, told me to just keep the item. I purchased a DA collet holder listed as new. The item was not new but it wasn't beat up either. Asked the seller if I had received the wrong item, they apologized for the listing mistake & in the end I got a 50% discount on it.

Regarding the OP, I'm late to the party but comparing the pics it clearly looks like shipping damage to me also.


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## TOOLMASTER (Feb 15, 2014)

some things should not be shipped...this is one of those things...:nuts:


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## ScrapMetal (Feb 15, 2014)

TOOLMASTER said:


> some things should not be shipped...this is one of those things...:nuts:



You can actually ship most anything, you just have to prepare it to survive "armageddon". :thumbzup:

-Ron


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## mrbreezeet1 (Feb 15, 2014)

thanks guys, I am going through a big thing right now. 
1st He tried to say it was not the same box. He told me I switched boxes. I sent enough pictures, now he believes me,
but wants me to send the box back 1st, and then he will issue refund. He goes" Thats The Way It Works"
But I want the full $175.00 plus $50.00 for shipping to me,
Plus I want my money back shipping to him.
I have a feeling if I send the box, all he will send me is $175.00
I think It might be better for me to escalate it to e bay, and see what decision they make,


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## TOOLMASTER (Feb 15, 2014)

ebay will tell you to send it back..you will have to eat that shipping...thats the way it works.


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## mrbreezeet1 (Feb 15, 2014)

TOOLMASTER said:


> ebay will tell you to send it back..you will have to eat that shipping...thats the way it works.



yeah, buts what to say what he is going to pay me. 
Is it $175.00 Or is it $175.00 Plus my $50.00 shipping. 
I don't see where I should have to eat shipping either way. 
He is getting his box back, I am (hopefully) getting my money back, why should I have to loose money sending the box back?


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## TOOLMASTER (Feb 15, 2014)

ebay will only give you your bid and original shipping back..this is why i don't bid on items with high shipping.(to return)

- - - Updated - - -

a toolbox like that i would only sell as local pick up only


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## darkzero (Feb 15, 2014)

> mrbreezeet1 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see where I should have to eat shipping either way.
> ...



It's unfortunate this has happened but unfortunately TOOLMASTER is correct. This subject has been beaten to death for many years on the net. Shipping costs to & from are not required to be refunded. These days, many larger companies like Amazon do offer full shipping refunds as a courtesy to keep their customer base happy. Individuals who sell don't often do but it is really up to the seller.

If a claim is filed though ebay/Paypal if the seller refuses to cooperate, ebay will only refund the purchase price & the shipping. The buyer is required to pay for the return shipping. I know hat may not make sense to you along with millions of other people in the world.

If you went to get food at a restaurant, then got home to check your order & it was incorrect, the restaurant is most likely going to correct your order or refund but they won't pay for the fuel you used to get there & go back. Same as if you drove 100 miles round trip to go buy something & had to return it. Fuel costs is transit costs as is shipping. 

If a shipping damage claim is filed through the carrier (by the seller & if it was insured), the carrier will pick up the damaged packaged at no cost to the buyer. If inspected & determined that the damage was caused in shipping & the item was packaged properly, a refund of the insured value & shipping costs will be refunded back to the seller. It is then the seller's responsibility to refund the buyer.

IMHO I'm very leery that the item was packaged sufficiently for an item that size/weight & delicate. Most the time when stuff gets damaged it because it was not packaged sufficiently. Sure we all know carriers are "known" to mishandle packages with instances caught on video but that is not their intention but at the same time they can't treat each an every package as if there was a volatile substance or unprotected fragile contents. 

The seller should know better & if they are moral & honest that it was packed insufficiently you should receive a refund. If I were in your shoes & that was the case I would document & try to prove that it was the sellers fault to request the return shipping to be refunded as well.


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## d.brown (Feb 16, 2014)

mrbreezeet1 said:


> I wrote him back, said I wanted full refund, plus postage to sent the POS back.
> Either that , or send me back $175.00 and I'll keep it.



You're obviously disappointed & rightfully so. I agree with the others, it sure appears to be shipping damage. If it were me, I would want to keep the box & repair it. Gerstner only used mahogany for a very short time (I think only during WW11) & they are kinda' rare. Maybe you could negotiate a fair refund to cover your time? Just a thought & if you can't or don't want to repair it or the seller refuses to be fair, report it to ebay.

David


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## mrbreezeet1 (Feb 17, 2014)

oh, I didn't even relieze it was mahogany!
I just  thought it was Oak that was dirty.................

I'm sending it back. He agreed to send me the full $225.00, plus $20.00 for my shipping  back to him. 
I have to send it back first, but I called e bay on the phone, they said his money in pay pal was "frozen" and they would make sure I got my money.
They said to not close the case till I had my money, and he had his box back.


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## TOOLMASTER (Feb 17, 2014)

most people don't realize sellers don't get their shipping costs back either..


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## xalky (Feb 17, 2014)

mrbreezeet1 said:


> oh, I didn't even relieze it was mahogany!
> I just  thought it was Oak that was dirty.................
> 
> I'm sending it back. He agreed to send me the full $225.00, plus $20.00 for my shipping  back to him.
> ...


 Good. I'm glad that you got eBay involved. You should be fine now.


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## mrbreezeet1 (Feb 17, 2014)

xalky said:


> Good. I'm glad that you got eBay involved. You should be fine now.



Thanks, I didn't really "escalate" it to e bay yet, but Iwas advised that the money was "frozen, and the e bay would be sure I got my money. I asked about the ~$20.00 the seller promised , and the fellow on the phone said he saw that in the e mails, and "they had ways" to make him pay that too. 
I am not 100% sure I will get the extra $20.00, but if I at least get the initial $225.00, I guess it will be OK. 
Like I said, e bay told me not to close the case yet. 
But it's on the case page, "you can close the case if you and the seller reached a decision" (But you don't have to, actually was advised not to! )


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## SE18 (Feb 17, 2014)

i acquired some chests and found that the felts they'd installed in the 1970s had dissolved to goo. Also, felts in camera lens cases, same thing. well, i guess not related to eBay but I saw mention of felts gone bad and just wanted to throw that in


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## Dave Smith (Feb 17, 2014)

mrbreezeet1 said:


> OK thanks Guys, No I didn't get too aggressive. There was not foam all around the box, I think he had somebody like going postal pack it.
> It could be shipping damage.
> We will see what happens.






You can't always tell by the box and packing that it came in when delivered---I bought a bridgeport rotary table and when I opened it up it was missing the calibrated rotation handle and the packaging and contents were all very nice looking---anyway after conversing with the seller back and forth and accepting that he had packed it with everything else--I realized that someone had repackaged everything in another box without the handle and no note that it was repackaged--the seller reported it to the shipper for insurance and they sent me a check for approx 90% of sale and shipping and I got to keep the  nice BP rotary table --I just have to make a calibrated handle for it--so trust the seller and realize that someone in the shipping process knew what had happened---Dave  )


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## mrbreezeet1 (Feb 17, 2014)

SE18 said:


> i acquired some chests and found that the felts they'd installed in the 1970s had dissolved to goo. Also, felts in camera lens cases, same thing. well, i guess not related to eBay but I saw mention of felts gone bad and just wanted to throw that in



_what are you glueing your felt in with?_



I might have to escalate this to e bay. The other day he said he would send the $225.00 that is $175.00 & $50 shipping I had initially paid. And he said it really only cost him $20.00 to ship. I was OK with that, I had agreed on the $175.00 & $50.00 shipping/handling. So I asked him the other day, So your gonna send $225.00 plus another $20.00? Instead of just saying "Yes" he said "sounds good to me" I asked for his full name and address. He sent that. So I wrote back

*Your message to the seller:*

_"OK, Thanks, just so  we are clear, when You receive the box back, you will refund $225.00,  plus $20.00 toward shipping back to you?  Will have to ship tomorrow.    Going postal "Might" be open today, I'll have to call them.  Thanks,   Tony" _
I am just wanting this to be on the "paper Trail" (conversations between us on the e bay open case page) And I was wanting him to just say "YES" instead of him hawing around. Well so far he has not written back, and this was early this AM when I wrote him.
Almost seems like he is not answering on purpose. Figures I'll just ship it back, E bay will un freeze his money, and issue it to me, And sounds like he'll say "see Y'a" about the other $20.00.
So If I don't get a Clear "Yes" to my last question, I will escalate it to e bay. I don't know if people think buyers are stupid or something?
One thing I have always been is perceptive.


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## george wilson (Feb 17, 2014)

You might PRACTICE on spraying the back side of some felt with spray can adhesive and sticking the felt down with that.3M makes that type of aerosol rubbery,rather contact type adhesive. I have covered a couple of guitar amplifier cabinets with cloth that I glued on like that. It says for a permanent bond,spray BOTH surfaces,if I recall correctly. You want to paper over and mask off anything in the vicinity that you don't want the sticky stuff settling on. It is a great way to get contact type cement on EVENLY. Anything uneven will show right through the felt,too.

I have made high quality pistol cases lined with wool broadcloth (pool table cloth) by just using white glue brushed onto the wood. Pool table cloth does not let the glue show through the other side. I would NOT try that with regular old,cheap felt. I never use the ordinary,cheap felt. Invest in the good stuff. Too much labor in a decent project to use the cheap stuff.


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## mrbreezeet1 (Feb 17, 2014)

mrbreezeet1 said:


> _what are you glueing your felt in with?_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why is this font so hard for it to stay big?
I even set it in settings to 4.
Oh well the hell with it. I'll keep it small. It's just easier on old eyes._ Ill highlight it and make it bigger in the end. _
_Don't you all think it's easier to read on 3 0r 4?
_
Anyways, I wrote, *Your message to the seller:*"Sounds  like your purposely not answering me?  When I asked you before, instead  of saying "Yes"   You said "sounds good to me"  I would appreciate a  straight answer.   Now Again.............................    " just so  we are clear, when You receive the box back, you will refund $225.00,  plus $20.00 toward the shipping back to you? Will have to ship  tomorrow.""_
He writes, _
"You seem paranoid.  That is what we agreed to already.  I told you I would do that and I will as soon as it gets here."
_So I wrote back,_ 
Thank You,   I ain't paranoid, I just wanted a straight answer.   Just  trying to protect my investment.   OK then, I will ship tomorrow. "


- - - Updated - - -



george wilson said:


> You might PRACTICE on spraying the back side of some felt with spray can adhesive and sticking the felt down with that.3M makes that type of aerosol rubbery,rather contact type adhesive. I have covered a couple of guitar amplifier cabinets with cloth that I glued on like that. It says for a permanent bond,spray BOTH surfaces,if I recall correctly. You want to paper over and mask off anything in the vicinity that you don't want the sticky stuff settling on. It is a great way to get contact type cement on EVENLY. Anything uneven will show right through the felt,too.
> 
> I have made high quality pistol cases lined with wool broadcloth (pool table cloth) by just using white glue brushed onto the wood. Pool table cloth does not let the glue show through the other side. I would NOT try that with regular old,cheap felt. I never use the ordinary,cheap felt. Invest in the good stuff. Too much labor in a decent project to use the cheap stuff.



I have felt from gerstner. and I think I brought some from machinistchest.com.
I have used white glue on a box about 10 years ago. 
It was felt from a fabric shop. 
It looked good though. 
I think I am gonna re-felt the whole box on this union I am working on. 

I want to try to make the union drawer pull.
I have an arbor press. 
How can I make a die or something to form the brass into? that will form the cup?
I will be using brass stock.


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## rafe (Feb 18, 2014)

nevermind


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## 4GSR (Feb 18, 2014)

The last Gerstner Chest I bought, I specifically told the seller how I wanted it packed. The chest wrapped in 2" of bubble wrap and placed in a heavy cardboard box with 4" of stuffing around the wrapped chest.  I also told him to let me know how much more I owed him on all the extra expense.  A shocking $50 on top of the $20 earlier sent.  I will say, it arrived undamaged.  Shipping box looked like it rolled off of a mountain but the chest was undamaged.


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## VSAncona (Feb 18, 2014)

Make sure you get a tracking number when you return it and upload the tracking info to your eBay claim.


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## burnrider (Feb 18, 2014)

If you have to spend $50 for packing materials, consider a large ice chest from a big box store. I shipped a motorcycle engine in a giant $48 cooler, packing around it with rolls of paper towels. Duct tape for closing it up, a plasticized address label inside and out. At 91 lbs it did fine. The cooler had a handle and wheels for the driver. The mechanic said he never insured them- and never lost one. I didn't bother.


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## 777mechanic (Feb 18, 2014)

i think you should file a claim with shipping company , and ebay both cover all bases . just looking at pic if you lived closer i would repair that in a heart beat . i have do lots of repairs and matched 200 year old old church items . finding wood is the toughest part of the job .


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## mrbreezeet1 (Feb 19, 2014)

mrbreezeet1 said:


> Anyways, I wrote, *Your message to the seller:*"Sounds   like your purposely not answering me?  When I asked you before,  instead  of saying "Yes"   You said "sounds good to me"  I would  appreciate a  straight answer.   Now Again.............................     " just so  we are clear, when You receive the box back, you will  refund $225.00,  plus $20.00 toward the shipping back to you? Will have  to ship  tomorrow.""_
> He writes, _
> "You seem paranoid.  That is what we agreed to already.  I told you I would do that and I will as soon as it gets here."
> _So I wrote back,_
> Thank You,   I ain't paranoid, I just wanted a straight answer.   Just   trying to protect my investment.   OK then, I will ship tomorrow. "




Well, this was great. 
*Your message to the seller:*

"I  didn't think I'd be able to ship that for No $20.00. $32.80 is what it  cost me.   See photo below.   I'll send tracking # when I get it. "


*Your message to the seller:*
"Photo 15.  You ought to be able to get a claim from Fed Ex for the initial damage. "

*Your message to the seller:*
"Shipping  Manager of Goin Postal sent   XXXX X XXXXXXX 1 FedEx  Home Delivery package(s).            Status:  Picked up  Tracking  number: 971001015042114"




*Refund information:*
A  full refund of $225.00 was issued on Feb 18, 2014. The refund includes  the purchase price plus original shipping and was issued to your PayPal  account. Please log in to PayPal and view the History page if you don't see it in your PayPal balance.









 


<tbody>

</tbody>



<tbody>

</tbody>


  Feb 18, 2014  Refund From  XXXXX   CompletedDetails Refund From XXXX XXXXXXX6R670121U5029351W_*$225.00 USD*_

<tbody>

</tbody>





Feb 18, 2014  Payment From  XXXXXCompletedDetails Payment From XXXXX XXXXX2W482898GW864471N_*$32.80 USD*_

<tbody>

</tbody>


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## mrbreezeet1 (Feb 20, 2014)

well time for me to quit buying off e bay. 
Screwed again. 
Here is the listing. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-LAR...mUj9S%2FgdzLX57nIOvyE%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

He left out all the damaged details, and Pictures of the damaged parts. 
I asked for $125.00 back, He says $100. ]
Get this..............
he said 
*However, with a person of your obvious idiosyncrasies ( so many emails  and demands) the only way to settle this is to send you a partial  refund. I believe 1/3 of price is too much. I will be glad to refund you  $100.00 which should be sufficient. Please let me know.    988cort"*

Can you imagine?  I have "*obvious idiosyncrasies" *cause I asked questions and sent e mails. 
I told this Jaj off, Bull SH%% I am allowed to ask questions. 

Here is all what he said. 
*"I have a 100% feedback and no fraud was intended. I gave a good  description and felt it was accurate. I can respond to some of your  complaints. However, with a person of your obvious idiosyncrasies ( so  many emails and demands) the only way to settle this is to send you a  partial refund. I believe 1/3 of price is too much. I will be glad to  refund you $100.00 which should be sufficient. Please let me know.     988cort"

I told him he had a lot of nerve telling me that, and  I told him He did not give a good  description , He left out the obvious defects and damage. 

*Then in his ad (Typed in all caps BTY) I hate that Hard on the eyes)
"Please ask all questions"
*

12 pictures are worth 1000 words. 





*

- - - Updated - - -

Well, He is going to do Partial refund of $125.00.
Fair enough I guess. 
Not 100 % sure how I am going to repair the back. 

I paid $300.00 plus $45.00  (Not $65.00) 
so it was $345.00 total- $125.00 So I ended up paying $220.00 with shipping.


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## 4GSR (Feb 20, 2014)

mrbreezeet1 said:


> .... I think I brought some from machinistchest.com.
> 
> [/SIZE]



Just went over to this guys website.  I've bought a couple of items from him.

He apparently passed away a year ago...


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