# Tramming made easy!!!!



## Rbeckett (Nov 30, 2013)

I think I have found the easier softer way  to tram my round over arm milling machine.  I found a tool on Ebay that looks quite nice and well thought out for tramming 2 axis of a mill.  The device is called a Pro-Tram and is available in two sizes, large for conventional machines and small for smaller and bench top machines.  The larger one is currently on sale for the same price as the smaller one and includes a standard and a fitted padded carrying case when it is not being used.  Here is a link to the device and once mine arrives and My mill arrives from CT I will let everybody know how well or how poorly ot works.  It appear to be a simple to use device that is self explanatory so I do not forsee any issues with poor performance other than maybe a mis adjusted Dial indicator possibly.  Here is the link to it on Ebay right now:  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261240346279?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

I have been shopping pretty heavily on Ebay the last week or 10 days and have exhausted my poor debit card and overheated my Paypal account on a number of occasions.  I think the mission of tooling up for the mill to arrive is a done deal now that I have ordered the final element I was looking at.  I found a 5 inch precision swiveling vice for about 150.00 bucks delivered and that completed the rotart table with dividing plates, the hold down kit, an ER-32 collet set with MT2 Holder, transfer punches, 123 blocks, 1 small milling and a larger drilling vice and a pneumatic vice too.  I already have a bunch of sets of endmills in round and flat tip configuration in 2 and 4 flutes as well as a number of fly cutters and spare bits with and without Indexable carnide inserts.  I also found a really nice set of SPI Micrometers from 0-4 inches with a fitted wooden case and a set of tools and standards for under 50 bucks.  I better stop spending money for a while or the wife is going to take away my debit card and call Paypal and cut me off.  Anybody got any suggestions for tooling or measuring devices I may have overlooked or missed?  I think I have it covered except for maybe a larger vice like an 8 or 10 inch if they will fit my table.  But I will have to wait till next month to even think about buying anymore goodies right now.

Bob


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## xalky (Nov 30, 2013)

I got one. Speeds up the job tremendously. )


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## MikeM (Nov 30, 2013)

Get a large cast/machined angle block. You will be ale to set up in seconds, and accurate enough for 99 percent or better of the jobs we do. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-R...d=100005&prg=1088&rk=3&rkt=5&sd=160954162216&


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## xalky (Nov 30, 2013)

MikeM said:


> Get a large cast/machined angle block. You will be ale to set up in seconds, and accurate enough for 99 percent or better of the jobs we do.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-R...d=100005&prg=1088&rk=3&rkt=5&sd=160954162216&


What's that gonna do?


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## MikeM (Nov 30, 2013)

Run the quill down. Put the block against it, and on the table of course. Adjust until you see no light anywhere along the quill where the square block touches. It is fast and accurate. You will not be so reluctant to move the head of your mill again. Of course it is only for making the quill square with the table. Not for setting up angles.


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## xalky (Nov 30, 2013)

MikeM said:


> Run the quill down. Put the block against it, and on the table of course. Adjust until you see no light anywhere along the quill where the square block touches. It is fast and accurate. You will not be so reluctant to move the head of your mill again. Of course it is only for making the quill square with the table. Not for setting up angles.


I see what you're saying. That's quick. Not sure how much I'd trust it for setting up for a fly cutter though.


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## MikeM (Nov 30, 2013)

I am certainly not suggesting anyone throw away their indicators. And one would have to check with an indicator in order to gain confidence in the idea.
 I actually got the idea from these folks, from this DVD years ago. http://www.precisionmeasure.com/brmill1.htm


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## chuckorlando (Nov 30, 2013)

I think their pretty cool. But I would prefer using .0001 for dialing in.


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## kd4gij (Nov 30, 2013)

I built one of those when I first got my mill.


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## itsme_Bernie (Nov 30, 2013)

MikeM said:


> Run the quill down. Put the block against it, and on the table of course. Adjust until you see no light anywhere along the quill where the square block touches. It is fast and accurate. You will not be so reluctant to move the head of your mill again. Of course it is only for making the quill square with the table. Not for setting up angles.



Rusnok heads have a square corner on the left side of the heads that you can square up to too. 



Bernie


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## itsme_Bernie (Nov 30, 2013)

I have been looking at these.  I have also been looking at a bigger one of these:

http://www.eztram.com/product_results.asp?ID=5

... I used a small one of these on my Sherline and it really sped things up.  My problem is occasionally needing to move the head after mounting the work, and having a hard time without a surface to tram to when the table has a vice or work held down to it. 

Bob- when does your mill come??  8)

Bernie


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## Rbeckett (Dec 1, 2013)

itsme_Bernie said:


> Bob- when does your mill come??  8)
> 
> Bernie



Bernie,
Bill is currently doing some upgrades and a minor overhaul on it for me before he ships it down to Fla.  He put in a riser to open the throat a bit and has replaced the Quill and done a motor upgrade to 1.5 horses.  Once he gets done with the repairs and adjustments he is going to have it shipped by a freight company down here.  We spoke the other day and he said he is hoping that I get it in and installed for Christmas or there about.  It is going to be one heck of a Christmas present to myself this year!!!  My uncle passed away and the extra money I had came from his estate, so I spent some of it on getting that machine and some tooling because he would have approved of that use of his money.  He was a tinkerer from way back and I think that is where I got mine from, so it is in honor to his memory that I am able to pull it all together finally.

Bob


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## iron man (Dec 1, 2013)

Built one with two old indicators it is fast and accurate. Ray


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## itsme_Bernie (Dec 1, 2013)

Rbeckett said:


> Bernie,
> Bill is currently doing some upgrades and a minor overhaul on it for me before he ships it down to Fla.  He put in a riser to open the throat a bit and has replaced the Quill and done a motor upgrade to 1.5 horses.  Once he gets done with the repairs and adjustments he is going to have it shipped by a freight company down here.  We spoke the other day and he said he is hoping that I get it in and installed for Christmas or there about.  It is going to be one heck of a Christmas present to myself this year!!!  My uncle passed away and the extra money I had came from his estate, so I spent some of it on getting that machine and some tooling because he would have approved of that use of his money.  He was a tinkerer from way back and I think that is where I got mine from, so it is in honor to his memory that I am able to pull it all together finally.
> 
> Bob



Bob I am so happy for you!  Whahoo!  I can't wait to see pics!! 

I think it is especially wonderful that your Uncle was a tinkerer, and that you will be putting his gift back into this..  You are doing him good!  


Bernie


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## Wireaddict (Dec 2, 2013)

Greetings.  I posted this elsewhere but I thought it might be easier to find here.  I had to tram my LMS 3960 Mini Mill twice &, even using only one indicator, here's how I quickly got I got the 4-bolt column trammed really close.

 I trammed the column last spring but, since I removed it to simplify installing the DRO scales, I had to tram it again. Last spring I made up a simple mount for the indicator & had decent results [within 0.002 in. over about 4 in of table travel]. This time I wanted to get it nearly perfect so I studied & followed the instructions in the manual &, to my surprise [at first], I overcorrected the error. The manual said to center the table under the spindle & take readings as far from the spindle as possible. I made an indicator mount that reached the 4 corners of the table & immediately found an error from the highest to the lowest corners of about 0.045 in. which seemed pretty high. I shimmed the corner with the highest deviation from "0"  0.045 in. & was surprised to find it even further off & in the opposite direction! After pondering this I found that increasing the distance between indication points to a distance that's greater than the column mounting bolt pattern magnified the error & that adding the shim thickness obtained this way grossly overcorrects the error. Bottom line: measure the spacing between the column mounting bolts & sweep the table [using parallels or smooth 1-2-3 blocks to avoid slots in the table] in a pattern the same size as the mounting bolt pattern & as closely as possible to the actual bolt pattern center. After measuring it this way I shimmed it again &, after tightening the bolts, the runout was 0.0005 in. within the pattern space &, from one corner of the table to the other, I had about 0.002 in. Hope this is helpful.


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## speedre9 (Dec 4, 2013)

I can't say I am a machinist but, when I tram a mill I use a coaxial indicator. Easy peasey


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## Maxx (Dec 4, 2013)

I can quickly tram mine with my dial indicator.
I have an L shaped round bar I put in a collet and preload my indicator and set for 0.
With the spindle in neutral I can easily move the contact point 180 out and if it's off I split the difference adjusting the head, reset to 0 swing 180 just to make sure it matches.
Best part is it doesn't involve me spending money that could be used for other tooling. :LOL:


Bernie, I have eyed those ez-trams for quite awhile but I have my vise set off center so I have plenty of room to tram away from it.


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## Rbeckett (Dec 4, 2013)

The Edge Easy Tram arrived today!!!!  Very nicely boxed from the vendor and in a nice blow molded storage case with a hard foam cut out to fit it snugly.  The device is well machined and the anodizing is excellent with no visible flaws or light spots.  The machined surfaces of the chuck attachment are well turned and highly polished.  Both of the DTI are reading identical at rest positions so there will be a correlation to them being in the same plane also when I am using the tool.  The instructions are included and have a nice procedure to eliminate any possible variance caused by a worn collet.  Those instructions are well written English and not ambiguous like some chinglish manuals out there.  The device is American made and sold/distributed by Edge Technology.  The included standard is also magnetized which is a very nice touch since it is very small and could easily get dropped otherwise and lost.   The shipping time and shipping cost were both in line with standard packaging and it arrived in a medium FRP box from the usps.  They did pack the rest of the box with biodegradable packing peanuts which dissolve when exposed to water rather than blowing all around the landfill and being eaten by the local critters.  All in all I am very impressed with the overall look and feel of this device and look forward to  employing it on my soon to arrive Clausing 8520  mill.  The device is capable of tramming 2 axis of your machine and it guarantees that you will be able to accomplish this tedious task much more quickly if you use this device.  Right now without actually using the device I think it is well worth the price of admission and should significantly ease an otherwise tedious task in my shop.

Bob


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## eightball (Dec 4, 2013)

I have a bearing race thats appx 14 inches in diameter and about 1 1/2 thick. I use it and a brown and sharp dti to tram. The bearing was thown in the scrap bucket at work and was brand new. It must have been a discontinued part or part of a massive cleanup. Gave the inner race to a pal of mine.


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## Maxx (Dec 4, 2013)

Rbeckett said:


> The Edge Easy Tram arrived today!!!!  Very nicely boxed from the vendor and in a nice blow molded storage case with a hard foam cut out to fit it snugly.  The device is well machined and the anodizing is excellent with no visible flaws or light spots.  The machined surfaces of the chuck attachment are well turned and highly polished.  Both of the DTI are reading identical at rest positions so there will be a correlation to them being in the same plane also when I am using the tool.  The instructions are included and have a nice procedure to eliminate any possible variance caused by a worn collet.  Those instructions are well written English and not ambiguous like some chinglish manuals out there.  The device is American made and sold/distributed by Edge Technology.  The included standard is also magnetized which is a very nice touch since it is very small and could easily get dropped otherwise and lost.   The shipping time and shipping cost were both in line with standard packaging and it arrived in a medium FRP box from the usps.  They did pack the rest of the box with biodegradable packing peanuts which dissolve when exposed to water rather than blowing all around the landfill and being eaten by the local critters.  All in all I am very impressed with the overall look and feel of this device and look forward to  employing it on my soon to arrive Clausing 8520  mill.  The device is capable of tramming 2 axis of your machine and it guarantees that you will be able to accomplish this tedious task much more quickly if you use this device.  Right now without actually using the device I think it is well worth the price of admission and should significantly ease an otherwise tedious task in my shop.
> 
> Bob


Excellent review.
I do like the bio-degradable packing.


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## The_Crusher (Dec 22, 2013)

Or for 6.95 buy an Indicol and use your own indicator and get a full swing. I personally use a 1-2-3 block and move it to each spot so you have a nice flat surface and you can tram a mill in about 2 minutes.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-I...718?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a88f2193e


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## pestilence (Dec 22, 2013)

I'm making my own.  

I just pressed a .500 rod into a hole in an aluminum bar.  I've already used it by locking a couple indicators on the bar with little Kant Twist clamps.  When it's finished, it'll just be prettier, with a radius around the rod, and have a row of threaded holes to screw down the indicators at various diameters.  You just take the back off the indicator, rotate it 90 degrees, and screw it back on to get the mounting bracket to face up/down rather than left/right.

You put a gauge block on the table with one indicator on it, zero that indicator, then spin it around so the other indicator is on the block, zero the second indicator, then use them to check the table.  The indicators don't even have to be the same brand, much less exactly the same height.


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