# Planning for our Estate Sale



## gr8legs (Aug 8, 2020)

*An approaching birthday and the realization that I will probably not live forever* started me thinking about what to do about the accumulation of 'stuff' in the workshop.

Most of us here on this site are sort of 'vultures', happy to swoop into a retired, disabled or deceased home hobbyist's shop and offer the survivor pennies on the dollar for their tools, tooling and other treasured items - and then brag about it on here.* I'm as guilty as anyone.*

But what happens to the family of the hobby machinist when we do this? There has to be a way to find the middle ground where both parties can be treated fairly.

Of course some Estate Sales or other asset disbursement methods have useless items that are overpriced - and vice versa.

I'm pondering maybe doing a shop inventory of what's there and assigning a reasonable 'second hand' value to the items to provide guidance to my loved ones after I croak. A lot of work for not much gain to myself at all. But it could provide guidance for my family if they wanted to get fair return on my investment. 

What are your thoughts on this truly depressing subject? What are y'all doing?

Just offering a bit of unpalatable food for thought. Maybe I will live forever.

Stu


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## RWanke (Aug 8, 2020)

I've thought of doing the exact same thing. I am at present surviving lung cancer but I know my time is numbered. I want my wife to be able to get a fair price for the toys I have spent our money on when the time comes. I haven't done this yet but hope to do it before anything happens to me. This includes not only the tools in my shop but guns, boat, fishing gear, etc.


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## Dhal22 (Aug 8, 2020)

Maybe voice record thoughts on value as you think of possessions.   That would get you started.


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## RandyWilson (Aug 8, 2020)

I went through this with the father in laws estate a few years back. He was big into Model As and Model Ts.  He would buy cars and parts. The wife started complaining... so he would buy cars and parts, take them to a friends house, disassemble them, and then sneak them home in pieces. the barn was SLAM full. the attic, the garage. Even under the house was full of car parts. Then add in ten years of slowly deteriorating mental capacity (couldn't remember how to put anything together, so he just kept taking everything apart) and hording, and you have a bit of a mess.  I was tasked with identifying, valuing, and selling off this stuff for top dollar. They **knew** it was a gold mine. It wasn't. No one wanted it, no one wanted to even dig through the junk to figure it out. The line I heard over and over from appraisers to potential dealers was  "you got a real mess here, good luck". 

 It took me two years to dispose of most of that stuff and get what value I could from it.  That is not a job I would wish on anyone. If I had to do it again, it would have gone to the scrapyard.  Listen to Stu here. It's a real issue.


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## Boswell (Aug 8, 2020)

I suspect that 80% of the value is in 20% of the stuff. So if you only just provide guidance on the 20% it could make a difference. The other thing is just to identify what has the most value. someone not familiar with all of this might now realize how expensive or valuable some small thing is. They probably would not see any difference in a Shars DTI vs a Sterrett.


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## Bob Korves (Aug 8, 2020)

Yes, I think many of us share this problem.  My biggest issue is overcoming laziness to get things priced before I die or get more senile than I already am.   In some ways it might make more sense to leave a plan for donating it all to a museum or similar non-profit, if the money is not a real issue for our heirs. They would probably prefer to just see it go away with as little effort as possible...


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## craniac (Aug 8, 2020)

I started a google spreadsheet of all the stuff in the shop, description, model number, serial number, year, when acquired, purchase price, date sold, selling price, notes, etc. I started with powertools, but now I have been expanding to other things. For work I am all over spreadsheets all day so this came natural. It helps me know what I've got. And its interesting to see the total expenditure.

Lately I've started expanding this to other things outside the shop. I have a lot of vintage audio gear, test equipment, vacuum tubes etc that I'm going to get started on. It's a fun winter project.

I've gone to some estate sales that made me feel like I was in a twilight zone episode where I was at the sale my wife is having after I died. Might as well have an exit strategy. Also when I see how much stuff is on the list I gain perspective- feel rich, lucky, grateful, sometimes greedy. Many benefits to this exercise beyond getting a fair price for the family. I've even thought about adding notes about who should get certain things. And some things I've moved along already- why wait? If someone get get use out something I'm just sitting on.

I don't see this as morbid, it's more like right action.

Tim


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## nnam (Aug 8, 2020)

Good to organize, get realistic with what to do with them and sell them, donate or give away to the right people now.

I am going through this process, getting rid of many things.

Sometimes, the values of the items can be redeemed by other things you realized when you free up your time managing the clutter.


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## Papa Charlie (Aug 8, 2020)

I think this is a good idea. One thing to keep in mind, the values we place on items may prolong the time it takes to sell our stuff. For us, that isn't a problem, for our families it is prolonging the pain of their loss.

When pricing, we should keep this in mind.

As for cataloging everything, most of our love ones won't know a lathe from a mill. Filling out pages of information may or may not be of any help to them. Maybe use a video camera and go around the shop and show them what you are talking about and what you think it  might be worth. For drawers of tools, open the drawer and give your best description and again value.

Just a thought!


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## Aaron_W (Aug 8, 2020)

I've thought about this, and have a plan. Plan A: Don't die, so far so good. 
Plan B: I am going to put together a binder with photos and a description of the more valuable items with a fair market price and a fair gone in 3 days price as well as potential places to sell it. 

I think Plan B is viable, but since Plan A is working (so far) I admit that I have been lax in implementing Plan B. I am also at an age where I probably have another 30-50 years baring an accident which also reduces the felt urgency. People occasionally drop dead at a relatively young age, so I know it is something that shouldn't be put off until the last minute, but that is what we tend to do. 


I like Papa Charlie's idea of video as well, and that can serve two purposes. The obvious is what things are, and their value. The other is it leaves a video record that some family may actually enjoy watching, as you putter around the shop pointing out the various pieces of your collection. 


Beyond giving a price writing the ad copy you would use to sell it yourself could be very useful. How often do you see ads on CL or Ebay that are simply "old lathe for sale, best offer" with a dark, blurry photo of a lathe like object buried under years of assorted crud. 
How much better is it when you see something like "1939 Southbend, 13" swing with a 7 foot bed" with a listing of included tooling, and photos of bits people are interested in. 
Maybe I should include a thumb drive in the binder.


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## craniac (Aug 8, 2020)

Another thing I've been doing in the spreadsheet is attaching links to photographs or threads on forums. And I note whether there is dirty paper in the files. Usually keep hard copies in addition to pdfs.

Good point on taking pics of drawer contents.

I have some much younger knowledgeable freinds I hope will help when needed. 

But honestly for me it's not primarily about the money. I have no objection to wanting to get a fair price for things, but I almost never paid one- looking at my list. More about getting things into good hands, and not having things go to scrap. And most of all minimize the work of it all for those left to deal with it.

Tim


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## Packard V8 (Aug 8, 2020)

The old  joke goes, "If my wife sells my tools and machines for what I told her I paid for them, the buyers are going to get incredible bargains."

I'm at the same juncture and should be selling instead of being unable to resist another "too good to pass up" deal.

jack vines


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## Aaron_W (Aug 8, 2020)

craniac said:


> But honestly for me it's not primarily about the money. I have no objection to wanting to get a fair price for things, but I almost never paid one- looking at my list. More about getting things into good hands, and not having things go to scrap. And most of all minimize the work of it all for those left to deal with it.
> 
> Tim




I know they are inanimate objects but I feel the same way. I'd much rather have my machines go somewhere to be used, with all their accessories rather than sold piecemeal or worse just left to rust.


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## C-Bag (Aug 8, 2020)

I agree with the thought that I don’t want to prolong the pain of loss.

My wife has taken quite an interest in what I’m doing and has actually said she wants to learn how to use the machines. So she has also been in on how much I paid for stuff and what the machines are called and what they do. It’s also why I’ve not gone for the big machines and stayed with hobby sized machines, easier to move and easier to sell. 

I almost never buy new and most things are a fraction of what most would think they’re worth. I’m trying not to get carried away and get rid of stuff as I don’t use them anymore. The biggest heartbreak is neither of my kids have any interest in any of my stuff that meant so much to me. But most of my machines were bargains I fixed up and it’s ok that they go into some other individuals garage to carry on making and keeping the manual arts alive when I’m gone. I’m hoping my clan can get something for them and not suffer to much in the process. Whether we want to admit it or not all good stuff is part of the great catch and release system and the trick is not letting it get turned into junk by hoarding and end up in the scrap heap.


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## Mike_Mac (Aug 8, 2020)

I am in the unfortunate position of not being able to do anymore work in my workshop since the end of last year. It is due to very bad breathing problems (COPD), caused by smoking and lack of mask wearing over the years. At least I have had 15-years of enjoyable retirement. At present, I am managing to keep myself amused by selling the tooling I have not used for a long while on eBay. The problem I have is, that with more time on my hands looking at the computer, I seem to be finding things that seem a bargain, putting a bid on them, and then finding I've won the item! I then end up with even more stuff to sell. My cars and motorcycles I am selling while I am still here. Although being very frustrated at not being able to enjoy my workshop and toys, I am still happy spending time writing good 'blurb' for the eBay adverts and including some decent photographs.


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## C-Bag (Aug 8, 2020)

I’ve also been really lucky to have the son of a neighbor who is a mech and has a young family. As I’ve run onto deals and also cleaning out the sheds etc I’ve been donating all kinds of stuff to his shop. That is satisfying on so many levels as often just trying to put a price on something triggers stuff in me that is not even rational. And many things like an old HF HD drill press I got given to me, I passed on to him when I got my UniDrill. Made both of us happy.


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## Papa Charlie (Aug 8, 2020)

While this subject is of concern for me as well. I am only two years away from retirement and trying to purchase a lot of equipment that I had to give up after 2008.

It saddens me to see what people are charging for tools and equipment now, when I know how much (little) I paid for them back when I first purchased them. My hope is to put together enough equipment to make my shop viable to bring in additional funds during retirement to help subsidize other forms of income that I have put together since 2008.

I am only 64 years of age and while I know that I should have lots of time, the subject of this thread is also on my mind. We just don't know when our time will come. I want my wife to have as much from my tools as possible to help her, but not to deal with long term issues of organizing it and selling it. 

Not making much of a point here I know, just rambling.


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## mickri (Aug 8, 2020)

It all depends on what your kids are into.  If they like machines and making stuff then there is the potential that your stuff will continue to get used for another generation by a family member.  I am going to tell my kids that if they don't want my stuff to have one of the local auction houses handle the sale and be done with it.  There are several in my area that routinely auction off home machine shops along with the rest of the stuff in the house and seem to get ok prices.  I don't know how much the auction house takes as their cut.  I was at one of these auctions and happened to talk to a member of the family that was auctioning off Grandpa's stuff.  The lady told me that they tried having some yards sales/estates sales with very little to show for it after all of the work and effort they put into it.  So they finally went with an auction.  Everything sold the day of the auction and was gone by the following week.


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## Bi11Hudson (Aug 8, 2020)

Having no children of my own and only a step-daughter and a her son over a thousand miles away leaves me with no recourse in that direction. Most of my "old" friends were just that, old(er than me). And with no interest in either machining or electronics. And quite frankly, not enough knowledge or interest to follow in my footsteps. They're not dumb, one is a farmer and the other lives in an apartment, somewhat disabled. The rest are in the ground. . . And my wife(3rd) of 30 years has no interest in either my hobby or metal working. And only very little in woodworking.

Add to that, my _lifelong_ hobby of model building is rare, and my use of machines in that hobby is even more so. To be more specific, what *I consider important or "valuable" would be essentially worthless to the average machinist*. Or more likely, the sort of thing that "looks interesting, but. . ." and spend the next 50 years in the back of a drawer of a "junque" buyer. Further, having been a practising electrical engineer and electronics circuit designer, there are tons of test instruments for old school electrical usage. Who now-a-days knows how to "phase" a 9 wire motor using an analog meter, a lantern battery, and a compass? Or even knows how to use them, for that matter. I'm good, very good, at what I do but there's no call these days for what I know how to do.

*Facing that reality is actually more difficult* than taking a serious inventory. I have accepted, so far, that perspective and don't expect Wife to get any appreciable gain on my stuff, much of which pre-dates her, depending on her few friends to help with disposal of the shop(s). Likely, most of it will go to a scrapyard or "junque" dealer. All told, probably not enough to buy a simple "meat and three" at the local diner.

I offer my apologies for coming off sounding so negative. I am thinking as I write this about my own perspective and trying to see an alternative to getting literally pennies for *archaic* metalworking and electronic test equipment. We won't even discuss my railroading interest or old(and rare) books. Or, most of all, my penchant to grab something when I see it come up from someone with no idea what it is, or does.

Bill Hudson​


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## Flyinfool (Aug 8, 2020)

Recenty a house in my neighborhood went up for an estate sale. The family did not want to deal with moving machinery out of the basement and listed the hose as a handyman special with included shop tools, fully furnished. It sold real fast. They just went thru the house and removed obvious junk and all private paperwork type stuff and anything else that a family member wanted. The rest went with the house. They got top dollar for the house and no moving or selling required. My family has already decided that is the plan for when I kick the bucket.


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## C-Bag (Aug 8, 2020)

Flyinfool said:


> Recenty a house in my neighborhood went up for an estate sale. The family did not want to deal with moving machinery out of the basement and listed the hose as a handyman special with included shop tools, fully furnished. It sold real fast. They just went thru the house and removed obvious junk and all private paperwork type stuff and anything else that a family member wanted. The rest went with the house. They got top dollar for the house and no moving or selling required. My family has already decided that is the plan for when I kick the bucket.


Never heard or seen that before. Sounds like a plan!


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## matthewsx (Aug 8, 2020)

Three thoughts here.

1. If you care about what happens to your stuff when you’re gone deal with it while you’re still able.

2. Videos of what you have will not only be more useful than written lists, but are also important if you ever need to file an insurance claim. Just make sure they are stored somewhere else.

3. How about a hobby-machinist.com foundation that members could donate to and would sell/distribute machines and tooling to support the hobby.

John


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## Boswell (Aug 8, 2020)

While I am not in a hurry to figure this out, I told my wife to donate it all to the local makerspace. That way it might get used.  Heck, my collection of tools might be enough to stock a new makerspace.


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## silence dogood (Aug 8, 2020)

After going though more than once of cleaning up, sorting out, and unloading stuff after a person passed away it makes one think.  After a few weeks that ends up a few months that ends up a few years can be emotionally and mentally draining.  One thing that can help is to dedicate the bench that the machine is on to that machine's tooling.  When I got my mini-mill, I built a stout bench to hold the mill and the mill's tooling,  I liked it so well that I mounted my horizontal band saw on a cart that holds cutting tools such as hacksaws and nibblers. I am now in the process of rebuilding the lathe bench to hold the lathe tooling.   That way the machine and it's bench will be given or sold as a unit.  Hopefully this will get a better price or a least a home for the machine instead of it going to a scrap dealer.  My wife is doing the same thing with her sewing (hey guys, sewers are just as bad as we are).


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## mmcmdl (Aug 8, 2020)

I am in the process of getting rid of everything machine shop related . I can't pass skills or interest down thru the children . I'm keeping anything that is household related , more on the wood working line . It's painful to see things leave that have made a living off of , but it sure is nice after they are gone . 

I'm a machinist by trade . It used to be a fun and somewhat rewarding trade . It is no longer either . I'm am now a data entry clerk answering to desk jockeys who have masters degrees in chart making . I can't work without a chart , so let's have 20 meetings and make a chart or 2 . 

This $hi* really makes me sick and I'm throwing in the towel . I refuse to bust my arse baby sitting people who don't want to work , are never repremanded by bosses who coundn't give a rats butt about anything . 

I left 4 notes on our board addresses to my manager last night . I took pictures and sent them to him saying to call me . So , as to now , no response , which doesn't surprise me one bit . 

The best way to lose a good employee is to reward the bad / non-caring employees . Just hire a few more managers and buy some more whips to lash the few who care harder . 

Rant over .


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## nnam (Aug 8, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> I am in the process of getting rid of everything machine shop related . I can't pass skills or interest down thru the children . I'm keeping anything that is household related , more on the wood working line . It's painful to see things leave that have made a living off of , but it sure is nice after they are gone .
> 
> I'm a machinist by trade . It used to be a fun and somewhat rewarding trade . It is no longer either . I'm am now a data entry clerk answering to desk jockeys who have masters degrees in chart making . I can't work without a chart , so let's have 20 meetings and make a chart or 2 .
> 
> ...


I also recently quit my job, changed to another career.


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## ACHiPo (Aug 8, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> I am in the process of getting rid of everything machine shop related . I can't pass skills or interest down thru the children . I'm keeping anything that is household related , more on the wood working line . It's painful to see things leave that have made a living off of , but it sure is nice after they are gone .
> 
> I'm a machinist by trade . It used to be a fun and somewhat rewarding trade . It is no longer either . I'm am now a data entry clerk answering to desk jockeys who have masters degrees in chart making . I can't work without a chart , so let's have 20 meetings and make a chart or 2 .
> 
> ...


Sorry to read about your frustration.  Sounds like it may be time to move on, or at least have a "come to Jesus" discussion with the appropriate people (in an emotionally intelligent way, of course).  

It sure seems to me that there's a need for skilled artisans in this country.  I know our company has made many suppliers, sub-suppliers, and sub-sub-suppliers pretty darned wealthy supplying parts to the semiconductor equipment industry.  We value quality, speed (especially prototyping), and integrity and pay for it.  We also require charts, and processes, and things that may be frustrating.

Your post makes me think you're looking for feedback, so forgive me if you're not and just venting.  One question you might want to ponder is "what is it that you want to do that you're unable to do and why?"  I'd encourage you to think about that, and if/when you start thinking about the jerks that don't do this and don't do that, keep asking the question "why?"  It's not a pleasant process, but it can be productive.  Why do the desk jockeys need a chart?  What story do they need to tell?  Where are they coming from?  It's tough, but also valuable, to put yourself in others' (especially people that determine your environment) heads/shoes/whatever.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further.  If you think I'm full of it, that's ok too.

Wish you all the best, and send your good stuff to Pleasanton, CA!   

Evan


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## westerner (Aug 8, 2020)

nnam said:


> donate or give away to the right people now.


I have/had several members of my family who when I visited would beat me up with incessant demands to declare "what do you want in here".
When I was young, I did not recognize what they were doing. 

I feel such sympathy for the idea now, that when I do find that estate sale with good stuff priced at pennies on the dollar,  I simply cannot pay that price. 
I will up the price or offer, or I will offer my idea of real value and walk away. 

It is a tough gig for ALL those involved. 
Do whatever you must to make it easier on your heirs.


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## HMiller (Aug 8, 2020)

Prepay your funeral. Make sure your wife has enough to live on and hope it goes cheap to someone who will appreciate it. The kids shouldn't need an inheritance so why leave them a vacation. 

Now if you are not sure the wife can make it and life insurance can't make up the difference then you need to do all you can to get top dollar. Otherwise it is just things, these inventor lists others have talked about just take away your time having fun on the machines. Quit think about the value of your junk and start wearing it out so it is worthless when you are gone.


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## 7milesup (Aug 8, 2020)

Very interesting and timely subject.  As some of you know I came very close to not being around any more (Glad to be here).  It has started my thought process on what should be done with my assets and what some of this stuff is worth.  I also fly RC helicopters and aircraft, and some of those have value, although not much.  
I agree with the video format option.  In fact, if one could walk around the shop and point out what some of the equipment is and what the potential worth is, that would go a long way to helping the remaining family members out.  Also, it might be interesting for your family to "hear" you one last time in an environment that you enjoyed.  
The one thing I would not do is start selling stuff off just because you are getting of the age that "something" might happen.  If you are still able to physically go out to the shop and enjoy the process, by all means, keep on doing it.  "Something" can happen to any of us on any given day.


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## mmcmdl (Aug 8, 2020)

No , I'm not frustrated ACH , I'm done . I don't have to worry or think about this any more . I can make a living on my own from this point on . Yes , skilled mechanics and machinists are in large demand . Trouble is there are none , so we have to pull double and triple duty to keep things alive . You probably don't follow my posts , but this has been going on for years . 

We have 6 mechanics for 2 large plants that run 24/7 . I can't take a vacation day without finding a replacement for me per my manager . Uh , well just where am I going to find a replacement ? 

We hire temps . Management pays them $9 an hour maybe . They come and they go , don't give a crap and should they ? We had 2 guys start 3 months ago , one of which I was supposed to try and train . We asked how him how long have you been in the mechanical trade and his response was an hour and a half . After 2 1/2 months here , the only tool he owned was a cell phone . He took the tools I supplied him home and never brought them in to work . His ash is GONE ! But hey , that's not a problem , we have a temp now that came from KFC , I'm sure he is top notch ! Oh , wait . He walked into a meeting earlier this week , throws his butt down in a chair in the middle of all of us , not wearing a mask and proclaims he has Covid symptems , his ash is gone too . 

Gotta wonder where our next candidates are coming from . I now find this amusing because I just don't care either . It hurts , but it's not my problem . This country and company leaders sold skilled labor out years ago , and now they'll pay the piper .


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## Dhal22 (Aug 8, 2020)

Ah,  the benefits of being self employed.   Not easy but on my own now for 23 years.   11 well paid employees and still growing.   I'm good.........


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## Papa Charlie (Aug 8, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> No , I'm not frustrated ACH , I'm done . I don't have to worry or think about this any more . I can make a living on my own from this point on . Yes , skilled mechanics and machinists are in large demand . Trouble is there are none , so we have to pull double and triple duty to keep things alive . You probably don't follow my posts , but this has been going on for years .
> 
> We have 6 mechanics for 2 large plants that run 24/7 . I can't take a vacation day without finding a replacement for me per my manager . Uh , well just where am I going to find a replacement ?
> 
> ...




What you are talking about is happening in many areas of business. I spend my first 9 years at Boeing in Supply Management as a Procurement Financial Analyst, doing negotiations and evaluation of the contract with MHI on the 787 wings. At first I was working around people that had been in SM for 30 years and very knowledgeable. But the last 4-5 years, they started hiring the young college grads in, setting them down in a chair and handing them huge contracts to manage. We are talking hundreds of millions of dollar contracts. They don't want to learn the technical aspects of the product and don't care if they negotiate reasonable settlements on design changes. Not a clue. All they are worried about is how they can move up.

There are five levels of employees, only a few of the most knowledgeable make it to level 5. It takes years and there are only a hand full out of 300 some people in Finance. Now management wants to eliminate all the level 5's and the new level 5 is a level 4. Which they want to reduce to a hand full. A level 1 is someone out of college, level 2 knows only a little more and maybe has a year in. Level 3's will be the new level 4 and are about as worthless as goose sh*t on a pump handle. 

Makes no sense to me. They are saving a lot of money on paper for salaries and benefits but is costing the company millions in poor management of their supply chain.


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## BGHansen (Aug 9, 2020)

My "death plan" is an auction for the stuff left over after our son takes what he wants.  I belong to a collecting club called the "A. C. Gilbert Heritage Society" which is a group of around 400 old-farts who mainly collect Erector sets.  The club hosts an annual convention which is usually attended by 60+ members.  Around 10 years ago, the tables tilted from mostly "display/show off" to "for sale".  I'm 60 and am one of the youngest members of the group.  The topic of conversation at shows is "what am I gonna do with all of this junk"!

I had a buddy who passed away 10 years ago who had a pretty large toy train collection.  Had a 40-foot wall in his basement with 15 or so rows of track on the wall for storage; it was full of Marx, American Flyer and other cars/engines.  They had an estate sale after his death that was attended by 5 or 6 people.  Why?  Because no one who saw the auction ads cared about buying toy trains.  It's an old toy that was huge in the 1930's - 1950's, but pretty much died out by the 1960's.  The guys who are interested in that stuff are getting up there also and are in the "disposal" facet of collecting, not the "accumulation" phase.

My wife and I went to a woodworking shop closing/auction in 1992.  This was before the internet, read about it in a local newspaper.  Looked at a paper map (remember those?) for directions.  Came up on the intersection on the gravel road and looked left, nothing down there.  Looked right and the cars and trucks were lined up on either side of the road.  Pulled behind a truck and walked 200 yards to the auction.  I was interested in a Delta Unisaw or something similar.  Guys were packed 4 or 5 deep around every piece of equipment.  There were all age groups there from 20-somethings to octogenarians.  Told my wife "there will be no deals here today" with the 500 or so people at the auction, so we left. 

Point being, on the plus side for our family survivors, there is a market for our shops and tools.  Not that I'd expect a line of cars and trucks 1/4 mile down the road from our place for my eventual estate auction, but there are still millenials who are interested in this stuff.  We fortunately see it on this forum all of the time, young guys (and gals) who get a hankerin' to make something, so the hobby continues. 

On the other hand, like I tell the Erector set guys who lament the fact that our toy market is really soft right now (much more supply than demand), if you bought it as a retirement investment, just accept the fact that you invested poorly and move on.  I probably have $40K or more tied up in my shop and did not buy it with the intent of selling it off for a profit.  We're pretty blessed as a family and what's in my pole barn is a drop in the bucket of our net worth.  Sure, wouldn't want to give it away, but really wouldn't care as long as it's going to a good home of a future hobby machinist.  After all, this will probably happen when I'm no longer able to enjoy my shop or need to downsize.  It'd give me a chance to tell my boring hobby machinist stories to another group of guys and gals.  I bought a Grizzly G0709 14" x 40" lathe around 4 years ago new for $4500.  Have since added a DRO, 5C collet closer, taper attachment, 40+ quick change tool holders, 8" set-tru chuck, etc.  Probably have $8000 into that lathe and would expect to get maybe $4000 for the package as it sets.  I bought it to play with, not as investment.

Bruce

p.s.  There ACGHS club had an affluent member named John Drury who was the lead news anchor at the ABC station in Chicago for 40 years.  John was a 7-figure a year guy.  If you saw "jdrury@mindspring.net" bidding on something on eBay, you WERE NOT going to get it as he paid more in taxes a year than most of us made.  John retired in around 2002 and was soon diagnosed with ALS.  When he got to the point of not being able to look at his collection anymore, it was auctioned off.  I recall adding up the total off everything at around $400K.  John spent much more than that on this stuff but knew he couldn't take it with him and was satisfied it was all going to good homes.










						John Drury Erector & Mysto Magic Auction 2005-10-09 Auction - 519 Price Results - Hindman in IL
					

See 519 prices and auction results for John Drury Erector & Mysto Magic Auction on Oct 09, 2005 by Hindman in IL




					www.liveauctioneers.com


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## Janderso (Aug 9, 2020)

Gr8legs,
I’m glad you brought up this subject. There are some great ideas in this thread!
I like the idea of taking a pic of the item, adding some descriptive information to place in the add and a value range.
Simple and very helpful to my loved ones that will have to deal with it.
My wife agreed there are some great ideas. She also said, you’ll never do it.
Hmmmmm, she may be right.
I bet when I retire I’ll find the time.


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## Buffalo21 (Aug 9, 2020)

About a year ago, my wife asked, if anything happened to me, what was she going to do with the stuff in the shop, apparently my answer of it wont be my problem, I’ll be dead, was not the answer she was looking for. I got the cold shoulder special for a day or two, she then suggested an inventory, I said I did not have enough years left to do it, she shook her head and walked away.

My step-son would only be interested in the cash if sold, my daughter has no interest, he boyfriend sure does, the grandkids would have absolutely no interest. So I did give the wife a list of machining friends, that would be interested in helping in the liquidation, When I asked them to help her if the need arose, they then roped me in to do the same for them. So hopefully there will be assistance for her. 

I told her if it happens the other way, a large dumpster was going to be the answer for me.


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## addertooth (Aug 9, 2020)

Going back to valuation.  I have other hobbies, which includes repair of antique fountain pens (hence the need for machining tools), and antique/vintage China collecting.  My wife has no clue on the valuation of these items.  I have started (on my computer) a valuation list. The Valuation has a minimum sale price, a typical sale price, and a higher end price.  My spouse can decide how fast she wants to sell the item, and chose the price which is applicable.   The Catalog has the name/make/model/etc of the item, a picture of the item, notes about when and where the item is from, PICTURES of the items (which would be included in the advertisement), and a Description which would be run with the advertisement.  The Description includes any additional information on what makes the item especially desirable or limitations the item might have.  I update it each time I get a new item.  Periodically, the list is burned to a CD (in case my computer crashes in an unrecoverable fashion). Some of the antique pens have a small paper adhesive tag on them, which has a unique "identity number".  This prevents two pens which "look identical" from being confused; some are only gold filled, others are solid gold... obviously a big difference in rarity and value.  

Currently, my investment in machining tools is small (less than $6000), so I am not too concerned (yet).  But if it tips over the 10k point, it will get a catalog as well.


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## matthewsx (Aug 9, 2020)

I think the important thing to remember here is the ones who are left behind with our stuff....

If we love them, asking them to be estate sale coordinators when we are gone might not be a very kind thing to do regardless of how valuable our possessions are. Those who have lost someone know how difficult it can be to deal with just the legal and financial aspects of even a very well organized person. In our cases we're putting literally tons of greasy iron and steel on top of that load should we pass without a solid plan to deal with it.

Those who have time to pare down and make sure valuable items go to people who will appreciate them definitely should but too many of us put things off until it's too late. A truly kind hobby machinist should discuss this with their loved ones and make sure whatever you are planning is something they will be able to accomplish in their darkest hour.

The best plan for many is probably to eliminate stuff that isn't used while you can still enjoy the proceeds with your family. Maybe a "sold the horizontal mill trip to visit the grandkids" or a "shaper proceeds family reunion", you get the idea. These difficult times are bringing what matters most into much sharper focus for many and discussions like this are a necessary part of everyone's life. We all know the time will come when it will truly be too late so why not make it easier on those left behind.

John


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## addertooth (Aug 9, 2020)

Although the intent of this thread has to do with final disposal of equipment, there have been some nice thoughtful comments about the nature of the workforce.  I can't help but be enticed by the topic. 

My first theory on this: The musical artist Madonna had it right; a person needs to re-invent themselves about once every decade or so.  I started in Electronics, drifted to Machining, then back to electronics and design.  When fewer places needed new electronic design and prototyping (a lot of it started to go off-shore), I switched to computers and network engineering, then to being a college instructor, and finally, back to network test engineering.  Don't get me wrong, electronics and machining have always remained on the back burner as a hobby the whole time.

As a person who has been "tapped" to perform interviews I have noticed some changes over the years.  Many of the guys who were "only" considered Machinists in the 70s and 80s, would be thought of as "tool and die" makers today.  Many of they guys who were "only" engineering technicians/electronic technicians in the 70s and 80s, would totally stomp what graduates from college with EE degrees today.  The available pool of employees appear to be "procedural thinkers" as versus "critical thinkers" or, even better, "outside the box thinkers".  They don't understand the nuts and bolts of what is trying to be achieved, they don't know how to adjust or make corrections, they cannot spot the mis-match between the procedures they are following, and what they are trying to actually achieve.  These limitations are seen across ALL career fields, and not just machining. 
I took a few college courses about a decade back.  They were from a high-end University.  I could not help but notice the rigor had disappeared from the classroom.  I had Junior College classes taken in the 70s, which were far tougher and had more rigor than these University classes; it made me sad.  Considering that college graduates are the current supply pool for many of the job fields these days, the resulting outcome is not surprising. 

How did we get here?  It is easy to explain.  Colleges "created" degrees in "human resources/management".  They enforced the concept that you can only be good at some things, IF you have a degree.  Those graduates with human resource degrees got hired by major companies.   Those hiring managers started using a "degree" as a major filtering element on "who" gets hired.  It became a self-feeding mechanism after that.  As time passed, and rigor reduced in education, it became a mechanism which ate it's own flesh.  Silently, and largely unnoticed, a few companies maintained the mantra "hire smart and ethical, and train skill". Those companies required an "old salt who knew the craft" to perform the interviews (and train).  For those who got hired by those companies, they saw career progression, raises and opportunity.  If they were hired elsewhere, they saw themselves being limited (not based upon what they could do for their companies) but instead, based upon what education they had.

I do not expect any of these trends to change.  In the engineering field, I would pick a good generalist, over 3 specialists every time.


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## matthewsx (Aug 9, 2020)

I was fortunate to get hired about a month ago into a job that I would call an IT Generalist, official title is Technology Analyst, it's for a government agency so maybe that explains why the are so behind.

I can't speak to what colleges and universities are doing but my daughter just graduated with an engineering degree and seems to have a fairly good grasp of the diversity of work she will be required to do.

I suspect more than anything, corporations being driven by accounting is responsible for this trend. By breaking every job down into it's elements and only requiring people to have the specific skill for that one aspect they can improve financial results in the short term without building the skilled workforce needed in the past. Outsourcing and offshoring further enhanced this trend to the point where I have several different resumes which only focus on one aspect of my experience because knowing more stuff is often seen as a liability these days (they know you're old).

Smart companies will continue to cross train their employees and encourage diversification as a means to build resiliency, they may win in the long run but only time will tell....

John


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## 7milesup (Aug 9, 2020)

Or, you could pick a career like mine.  Invented on Dec. 17, 1903.  Keep up with technology and you are good.  Safety increased as time wore on.  Eventually, the guys in the cockpit will be replaced by "Hal" in the cockpit, but it will a couple of decades yet before we see wholesale replacement of the pilots.  
The issues you guys are pointing out exist virtually everywhere.  The company I worked for burned through money at an unprecedented rate but when you are supported by the richest of the rich (above the 1%), they felt they could do that.  Then 2008 rolled around and they finally woke up.  For them to waste a couple hundred thousand in a DAY was not uncommon.


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## Buffalo21 (Aug 9, 2020)

I applied for a job in a school district, looking for a boiler tech, I had over 40 yrs experience and already did about 90% of their boiler work, but was told I was unqualified for the job, because I did not have a college degree. A college degree requirement was not spelled out in the job posting, about 2 weeks after they told me I was not qualified, I was on site, starting up 8 new boilers for them. They asked me to train their new boiler tech, who had a degree in Russian Romance Literature, but no mechanical skills, they were severely miffed, when I told them I was unqualified to train him, according to them.


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## addertooth (Aug 9, 2020)

7MilesUp,

Yes, pilot is a great gig, if you can get it. A buddy of mine struggled to get enough hours to get the ratings he needed to get hired. For many in the industry, their path to hours was being a former Military pilot. I suspect there has been some trimmings in job opportunities in the aviation industry due to Coronavirus reductions.  But then, all industries have ups and downs.


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## davidcarmichael (Aug 9, 2020)

I was thinking about a video with appropriate commentary. This is needed for insurance purposes anyway. It might be a little hard for any loved ones you leave behind to watch however. 
I think a spreadsheet with photos and prices that could be converted into online adverts would be a good idea. Make sure whoever you leave behind knows where it is.


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## Aaron_W (Aug 9, 2020)

I'm still dealing with getting rid of my mothers stuff, 2 years after she is gone so this topic is very timely for me. She left 2 storage units filled with stuff, and realistically there is probably less than a truckload of stuff of interest to my brother and I. Unfortunately what is there is personal, photos and such, so digging through it and making trips to Goodwill to save those few small items is where we are.

She made no plans for her eventual demise, no will, no power of attorney. She began to get "old timers" or "CRS" around 2010-12 when she hit her 70s, but in late 2016 it rapidly evolved into early stage dementia, and she had to move to an assisted living arrangement and by mid 2017 she had no idea who her own children were. Since she had refused to make any plans for the future (first she put it off, then the dementia and related paranoia took over) which left us with a period where she was not legally competent and there was no legal guardian. It took 6 months for me be appointed as her conservator (early 2018) and she passed in late 2018. The only saving grace in the whole thing was my brother and I get along well so there was no fighting over her remaining assets. It was a truly awful experience, which my wife and I are now working on so our children don't have to go through the same kind of thing when our time is up.

In addition to identifying your valuables get a will or set up a trust, so it is clear what you want to have happen with your assets when you are gone. I hear so many stories about siblings and in laws never speaking again after the fight over an estate. The legal fees for doing a will or trust are just a fraction of what they can be even when the beneficiaries are on friendly and cooperative terms.





BGHansen said:


> On the other hand, like I tell the Erector set guys who lament the fact that our toy market is really soft right now (much more supply than demand), if you bought it as a retirement investment, just accept the fact that you invested poorly and move on.  I probably have $40K or more tied up in my shop and did not buy it with the intent of selling it off for a profit.



Hobbies are for enjoyment and entertainment, they may be an investment in your future happiness (something to do in retirement) but most are a poor financial investment. I think this idea of investment comes because many involve collectible items (toys, cars, stamps etc) and a few get lucky and happen to sell when the market for their collection is hot. Most will have much more money tied up in their hobby than they will ever recover. How many "classic" old cars do you see with an ad like this, "over $25,000 spent on restoration, asking $15,000 firm" that is probably a lot more common than the barn find bought for $1500, and sold it for $20,000 after spending $200 to have it cleaned and detailed.

The other side of that is just because it is worth less than you have put into it, that doesn't make it worthless. If you have $40,000 tied up in your shop, but you could only sell it for $20,000 that is still well worth the effort to recover. I think some lose sight of that and just see the net monetary loss. Hobbies bring us happiness and a reason to get up in the morning for those who have been able to retire.




Janderso said:


> My wife agreed there are some great ideas. She also said, you’ll never do it.
> Hmmmmm, she may be right.
> I bet when I retire I’ll find the time.



I have a fairly extensive stash of models, building material not a collection. The issue with models is unless you build the really common stuff, they are often here today, gone tomorrow so the rate of buying tends to exceed the rate of building. Also like our machines buying at an estate sale or otherwise buying from a stash reduction there can be a significant cost reduction which also adds to the acquisition rate.
Anyway this thought of identifying what I have so my family can sort the worth $5, sell them as a lot models, from the worth $50+ models that are worth listing individually. The thought has been on my mind for quite sometime, but when I actually have the time to do it, I'd rather spend it making something. Thinking about our mortality is not exactly a fun thing, and I bet most of us put it off as long as possible even when we recognize it is important.



matthewsx said:


> I think the important thing to remember here is the ones who are left behind with our stuff....
> 
> If we love them, asking them to be estate sale coordinators when we are gone might not be a very kind thing to do regardless of how valuable our possessions are. Those who have lost someone know how difficult it can be to deal with just the legal and financial aspects of even a very well organized person. In our cases we're putting literally tons of greasy iron and steel on top of that load should we pass without a solid plan to deal with it.
> 
> ...



My Dad has a large collection of Electric trains and old metal toys (Dinky, Tootsie Toys etc). As he has gotten older he has moved towards selling some of his collection before buying more. This helps to keep the collection of a more manageable size, as he sells off duplicates (triplicates, quadruplets etc), and he has less money tied up in it since he mostly uses the money from selling to buy more. Hopefully he will be around for many more years but he knows what a job he is leaving for my brother and I when he is gone and is making an effort to make it less work for us.




davidcarmichael said:


> I was thinking about a video with appropriate commentary. This is needed for insurance purposes anyway. It might be a little hard for any loved ones you leave behind to watch however.
> I think a spreadsheet with photos and prices that could be converted into online adverts would be a good idea. Make sure whoever you leave behind knows where it is.



No reason a video has to be morbid. It could serve two functions, one identifying the stuff and two an opportunity to show off some of our favorite things. Who knows maybe that sparks an interest in a particular tool or machine as they keep it for sentimental value and later decide to learn to use it.
My Grandfather was a machinist, and started his own machining business. I wish I had developed an interest in machining when he was still around, but I only got into this a few years after he was gone.

I've always loved the WKRP episode "The Will" which features a video will. Hopefully in our case it would be less combative but no less humorous, and maybe something people want to keep to remember us by.









On the subtopic of employment:



matthewsx said:


> I was fortunate to get hired about a month ago into a job that I would call an IT Generalist, official title is Technology Analyst, it's for a government agency so maybe that explains why the are so behind.
> 
> I can't speak to what colleges and universities are doing but my daughter just graduated with an engineering degree and seems to have a fairly good grasp of the diversity of work she will be required to do.
> 
> ...



It is an older book now, but Fastfood Nation documents how the emphasis on the workforce has deteriorated since the 1950s in a misguided effort to increase profits. The model really goes back to the creation of the assembly line replacing craftsmen, but the development of the fast food industry in the 1950s is where it really took off. Short order cooks were replaced with assembly line like fry cooks and burger flippers. It has spread to other industries which see hiring less skilled, one trick ponies as a way to save money. Multiple studies have shown experienced, skilled labor is far more efficient, but once an idea takes hold it is hard to stop it. Many businesses have gone all in on the idea that lower paid, less skilled workers is the best idea, data be damned. It is even working its way into government jobs which had long been a last refuge of putting employees over profits.

I was counting the days to retirement when the agency I was working for eliminated the last of the input from supervisors on who we hired for our crews, then later the same year had the audacity to make us take an online class that emphasized how critical it was that supervisors be involved in the hiring process.   Just another example of how one hand had no idea what the other was doing.




Buffalo21 said:


> I applied for a job in a school district, looking for a boiler tech, I had over 40 yrs experience and already did about 90% of their boiler work, but was told I was unqualified for the job, because I did not have a college degree. A college degree requirement was not spelled out in the job posting, about 2 weeks after they told me I was not qualified, I was on site, starting up 8 new boilers for them. They asked me to train their new boiler tech, who had a degree in Russian Romance Literature, but no mechanical skills, they were severely miffed, when I told them I was unqualified to train him, according to them.



When I got my first career position with the US Forest Service, we had a wood shop and the agency had an older man hired through a program meant to provide part time work to low income people over 55 (was then called the Older American Program, later renamed the Senior Community Service  Employment Program). This guy who went by the name "Beans" was a wizard with wood, he made the wooden signs for campgrounds, trails, and even made signs for our fire engines that showed the forest we came from.

An example of the signs he made for us.





The work was there for 40 hours a week, so they tried multiple times to hire him into a regular position as a sign maker instead of this lower paid part time arrangement. He was a smart man and people helped him with his application to cross all the Ts and dot the Is but he had not graduated high school. Despite his extensive wood working and sign making experience he could not get past the HR system which said he lacked the educational requirements for the position. In the end they cancelled the new position and kept him working part time because they knew they would not get a better person if they filled the job.


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## matthewsx (Aug 9, 2020)

Yes, prepare the best you can, but realize when you're gone you'll have no control over what happens.

My dad was extremely smart and invested fairly well so when he couldn't take care of himself anymore we were able to buy a different home and have my sister move in to take care of him. I lived 2000 miles away but came out and packed up all his stuff, found the new place, and set things up so my sister wouldn't have to worry about paying for anything herself.

My dad had a living trust and named me as trustee. Well, by the time he passed two years ago the only thing left of value was the house which was to be split 50/50. Long story short it took over a year of "negotiating" with my sister and thousands of dollars in lawyer fees to get her to "agree" to be bought out. I could have sold the house at any time but wanted to keep it in our family and move our mother back to California so she didn't have to stay in Michigan with the winters.

Even though I did what my dad wanted and tried to be as helpful and understanding as I could, my sister barely talks with me and has only visited our mom twice since we moved out here in January.

So, what I learned is if you want someone to have something after you're dead give it to them while you are still alive. You all think your relatives have no interest in your stuff but when you die their feelings might change, especially if you leave a document spelling out just how valuable all that greasy metal in the shop is.

People get weird about money and inheritances. If you can distribute stuff while you're still alive (even if you retain legal right to use it) anyone who has a claim can talk to you about what they think is fair and you can set them straight. Otherwise it can become a situation where whatever value you think something has will end up being wasted on lawyers.

That's one of the reasons I mentioned possibly setting up a hobby-machinist.com foundation. It could be a tax-exempt educational organization which would use volunteer resources to refurbish and sell donated machines and tooling. Surely one of us is passionate enough to donate a small plot of land with a barn near the middle of the country. It could help with estate planning such that when a member passed away there would not only be tools available but funds for rigging and moving them. Best of all your family would know that your passion will live on as others continue to make chips with your machines  

John


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## 7milesup (Aug 9, 2020)

One of the reasons for the demise of career standards in this country is, as others have pointed out, profits over pride.  Wall Street has done more to destroy this country than China.  As far as MAGA, that ship sailed 20+ years ago and it will not return.  It is a pipe dream.


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## Dhal22 (Aug 9, 2020)

7milesup said:


> Or, you could pick a career like mine.  Invented on Dec. 17, 1903.  Keep up with technology and you are good.  Safety increased as time wore on.  Eventually, the guys in the cockpit will be replaced by "Hal" in the cockpit, but it will a couple of decades yet before we see wholesale replacement of the pilots.
> The issues you guys are pointing out exist virtually everywhere.  The company I worked for burned through money at an unprecedented rate but when you are supported by the richest of the rich (above the 1%), they felt they could do that.  Then 2008 rolled around and they finally woke up.  For them to waste a couple hundred thousand in a DAY was not uncommon.




I shoulda/ woulda/ didn't..................


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## Superburban (Aug 9, 2020)

he one thing I did not see brought up directly, is along with suggested price, include a craigslist style description, and photos to help the seller get a better listing and draw more attention.

A lifetime ago, in the Military, I would tell my new Lieutenants & NCO's. You cannot make someone care. You can force them to do things, and even train them to follow steps to a completion, but caring needs to come from them. Look for those under them that care, and help guide them to bigger and better places.
I'll take a dozen untrained Soldiers who care, over 100 "trained" that do not, and get five times the work done. The Army was big for testing soldiers tasks, often step by step. They did not care that Soldiers could not recognize when a particular task should be accomplished. But Soldier A was considered better then Soldier b, because he could recall step by step the steps for a task, So the book types did better then the ones who were more concerned how knowing a task applied to them, or the ones who cared about,a nd learned all they could about their equipment.


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## kb58 (Aug 9, 2020)

Establishing actual worth is a dynamic problem. When you document what you think various equipment is worth, what's it going to be worth in X years from now? No one knows, so to assign a value now seems of little actual value (to me). I think that it would be better to create a list of the stuff, including model number and manufacturer. Whoever's left will have to Google the stuff to establish its actual street value at that time. There are other ways such as an auction, but often whoever's handling the sale won't want to deal with the added stress. Best of all would be to have a buddy of the deceased (who's in the same hobby) establish the approximate worth.

I guess I'm just saying that if you leave a record of "My mill cost $6,000", that doesn't mean anything in the future. As a recent example, I saw a 30-ton horizontal milling machine for sale, "Free, you transport." Imagine what the company paid for it, but that doesn't matter, it's only worth what someone's willing to pay.


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## Superburban (Aug 9, 2020)

kb58 said:


> I saw a 30-ton horizontal milling machine for sale, "Free, you transport." Imagine what the company paid for it, but that doesn't matter, it's only worth what someone's willing to pay.


You are so right. I got my 4 head Fosdick 24" drill press off ebay, for what I thought was a steal. When I picked it up, I got to talking to the assistant manager, Who said they had been trying to get a new home for it, without it being a boat headed to china, for about a year.  They had several people come look at it from a Craigs list add, and all said it was too big for them. I'm sure the time the Manager, and two workers spent helping me load, and tie it all down had to cost them more then I paid. Even though I knew what I was doing in tying down the load, the Asst Manager wanted to be sure I would make it home (And Chat A lot).


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## Janderso (Aug 10, 2020)

Some great comments, ideas, experiences with loved ones. matthewsx, reminds us of the relatives that suddenly have a keen interest in our stuff when we are gone. Boy, isn't that the truth. It can get ugly.

Aaron, I dealt with the same thing with my dad and his dementia. It's a tough road. Dealing with his online brokerage firm almost drove me crazy.

I was thinking how to identify tools and machine tools to be marked for a description and value range.
When you sell a business, auditors come around and put a sticker on everything. File cabinets, garbage cans, computers etc.
The number corresponds to a ledger that includes the item and value.
I think this may be the easiest way to identify the items.
Maybe not a sticker but some other way of marking the item.


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## JFL4066 (Aug 14, 2020)

Great topic everyone!
I'm 60 and was just pondering this....

You really can't beat an auction for fast liquidation and relatively painless "disposal" of your "stuff".  About a year before my dad passed with dementia/Alzheimer my mom wanted to move to a small ranch house and simplify. My dad had TWO 60 x 100 barns with compete woodworking and machine shop/metal fabrication equipment. You name it, he had it! My brother and I discussed it with mom and decided on a auction. Auctioned the house too. We kept some machinery and some tools.( Mostly stuff passed down from both grandfathers tool and die makers. ) My brother and I didn't have garage/shops big enough to keep it all. lol.  Auction went from 9am to 6pm on a Saturday. You really get an idea of what your stuff is worth to other people that don't have sentimental value to it.  My poor dad thought we were having a party! Didn't phase him a bit. By Sunday afternoon everything was gone and my mom was happier than she was for a long time.  Two weeks later we bought her a nice 10 year old ranch with all new furniture (with cash from auction).  My brother and I were just grateful that we did not have to deal with any of the "stuff".


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## nnam (Aug 14, 2020)

I have been selling things and even though they're great deal to the buyers, I think it helps me a lot also, because I have time to sell.  If something  bad happens to me, my wife wouldn't have any strength or patient, or knowledge to sell them at the price I am now selling.  Also, I also get rid of things I don't really need, and I shouldn't keep them for fun either.

We have time to type these, we can create a facebook listing or craigslist or others to sell them.  Give them enough time so they have a fair price vs 1 day kind of things.

I just wanted to share.   Also, yesterday I sold something listed for a month.  The person didn't lower the price.  It was good price.  But I gave him some discount anyway and also threw in some more things.
It is a good transaction that counts sometimes.


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## gr8legs (Aug 16, 2020)

I made some 'baby steps' on this project. I ordered some permanent adhesive labels to stick on the higher value tools and equipment, serving the dual purpose of identifying it in case of theft and as a data point for eventual dispersion. The custom labels cost about a dime apiece.

Very official looking, barcoded and all that stuff. Now to figure out what the spreadsheet needs to include to link the label to the item and its value.

Probably include Our Asset #, Purchase Date, Purchase Cost, New/Used, Brand, Description, UPC, $ Estimated Resale

What else?

Stu


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## matthewsx (Aug 16, 2020)

Very official looking


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## nnam (Aug 16, 2020)

gr8legs said:


> I made some 'baby steps' on this project. I ordered some permanent adhesive labels to stick on the higher value tools and equipment, serving the dual purpose of identifying it in case of theft and as a data point for eventual dispersion. The custom labels cost about a dime apiece.
> 
> Very official looking, barcoded and all that stuff. Now to figure out what the spreadsheet needs to include to link the label to the item and its value.
> 
> ...


Very nice.

Not sure what in your description but I would write some info as in for sale description.  Any problem with it, history if relevant.
Also maybe hint on how easy or hard each item maybe sold.  List various alternative names people may call them.
For lathe and mill, tell them don't put them in the rain for any time at all


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## rwm (Aug 16, 2020)

I am more worried about my stuff going to a good home and good use than I am about getting top dollar for these things. I sincerely hope some members here would swoop in and try to get as much stuff as possible! I don't think someone should feel guilty about tool rescue! I cannot stand to think about some of my things going into a dumpster. I'm sure you all share that fear.
Robert


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## gr8legs (Aug 16, 2020)

rwm said:


> I don't think someone should feel guilty about tool rescue!



"Tool Rescue" - I like that!

Stu


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## DiscoDan (Aug 16, 2020)

My experience is more related to getting rid of everything in the house not just tools and machining stuff. My dad's father was the second to go and after his funeral we all gathered at the house. On the refrigerator there was a few sheets of paper where each person at the house would write down things in the house that they would like to have. At the end of the weekend we gather the list and went through each item and if you were the only one that wanted that item then you got it. If more than one person wanted the item then you had to negotiate and figure out who got that item. With very few exceptions there was no bickering about who got what. Anything remaining after that went to an estate sale.


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## kb58 (Aug 16, 2020)

After moving mom to a rest home, we cleaned out the house and things went pretty well, so I thought that we'd avoided the bickering that many families experience—hah. My dear brother started getting flaky, saying that he couldn't help because he didn't have the vacation time. Then, right when it was time to clean out the rat-infested area behind the garage, he announced that he was going on vacation. Our opinion of him has taken a significant hit, so yeah, it's a real test of family relationships. (It brings to mind a pastor's explanation that heaven is where we'll spend all eternity with our family...) That then brought to mind the Will Rogers quote "If there are no dogs in heaven, I want to go where they are", but I digress.


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## Papa Charlie (Aug 16, 2020)

I have seen issues with estates and family many times. Wife went through it when her mother passed. Father had passed first. She has three sisters and the second to the youngest, who never left home (in her 30's at the time) was assigned the executor of the estate. She kept saying she wasn't ready to deal with it and the loss so postponed everything for almost two years. Clause in the will said if anyone created an issue they were out and this was brought up many times. So it went on. The would have parties to divide things up but not invite everyone. She eventually bought the house form the estate and I believe purposely waited as the market was crashing to a point that she could afford to do it. Home value dropped around $150k by the time she settled. Ended up with all the furniture, appliances, tools, piles of years of stuff in the garage. The others only took the valuables, watches, jewelry, etc.
The mother offered me the guns, which I am the only one in the family that shoots, while she was still alive. I didn't feel right taking them right then as she was going through some severe health issues and I didn't want the kids to jump on her. All were taken by another BIL who just put them under his bed and they have never been used.
Proper outline of what you want and expect to happen after you pass is, from my experience, essential to a good will. 
I have a clause in my will that everything goes to the nephews and nieces but it all has to be valued by a firm. Each gets the same value in stuff or cash.


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## Flyinfool (Aug 16, 2020)

I had a next door neighbors that were very old. I often helped them with things around the house. when the hubby passed his wife call me over to the house and had me move all tools to my house. She said the kids were already fighting over them and none of them would ever come over to help with anything. So she did not want them to get anything. The kids wanted to clear out the house even though mom was STILL LIVING THERE. She told the kids that they had sold all the tools over the years for living expenses.

Bottom line is spell it out or the kids can turn into monsters.


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## matthewsx (Aug 16, 2020)

Flyinfool said:


> I had a next door neighbors that were very old. I often helped them with things around the house. when the hubby passed his wife call me over to the house and had me move all tools to my house. She said the kids were already fighting over them and none of them would ever come over to help with anything. So she did not want them to get anything. The kids wanted to clear out the house even though mom was STILL LIVING THERE. She told the kids that they had sold all the tools over the years for living expenses.
> 
> Bottom line is spell it out or the kids can turn into monsters.



Honestly, even a good will or trust still doesn't assure your wishes after you're gone. Your neighbors had the right idea, he may have even discussed it with his wife before he passed.

If you want someone to have something after you're gone then give it to them while you're still around. That way not only will your wishes be honored but you will also have the pleasure of seeing something you cherish go on to it's new owner.

John


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## Superburban (Aug 16, 2020)

My Grandmother put her friends names on a bunch of her stuff that she wanted to go to them. The problem we ran into, was we could not located some of the names. Either the person had died years before, or it was somebody that hung in a different circle then any of us knew about. She did have many interests, and hung in several groups, but most were over 10 years before she passed, as she spent too long in a nursing home before she passed. So If you have things to go to somebody, include a phone number and/ or address.

Interestingly, some of the stuff like paintings (she was an artist, and so was several of her friends), had several names, likely indicating the chain of succession the items took. Would have been interesting if they had included dates. She lived to be 99, so there was likely 70 years of item trading that took place.


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## Inferno (Aug 16, 2020)

My son recently asked me about my "final wishes". 

I told him to ask me again after I pass ans if I have an opinion, I'll let him know. 

My stuff is my stuff. Every once in a while I have a panic sale and sell for pennies on the dollar. I am not buying my stuff as an investment. It has almost no financial value to me after I get it home. I don't see it as an asset. I see it all as "enjoyment". 

When I go to a "sale" and see anything over 50% of "new" cost, I just pass. 50% of retail is just wholesale. 

For the OP. Yes, I'm a vulture. I'm not far away. When you have a panic sale, call me! (pennies on the dollar, remember?)


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## pontiac428 (Aug 17, 2020)

gr8legs said:


> Now to figure out what the spreadsheet needs to include to link the label to the item and its value.
> 
> 
> View attachment 333886



I think you're going to need to use a database like Microsoft Access to use bar codes.  It's not that much more difficult than setting up the spreadsheet you want, but you'll have to build a front end that will let you use barcode lookups.  Access databases have more functionality by leaps and bounds over a spreadsheet, and can easily do inventory/tracking/point of sale operations.  There's a learning curve, but Microsoft provides excellent free training for all of its products.


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## Cooter Brown (Aug 17, 2020)

One of the guys who came to the Richard King Scraping Class did something kinda like this..... We noticed that everyone of his tools had labels with the retail price and the date he bought it.... Guess he heard that joke about the machinist who had a nightmare......

"I had a nightmare, I dreamed that I died and my wife sold all of my tools for what I told her I paid for them......"

Lol


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## gr8legs (Aug 17, 2020)

pontiac428 said:


> I think you're going to need to use a database like Microsoft Access to use bar codes.



That may be needed in the future - but for acquiring the data a simple spread sheet will work. It's not like we'll be looking up items and prices on a real-time daily basis.

If that need ever arises I (or my heirs) can import a spreadsheet into a database (I prefer postgresql - free and also free of the Micro$oft handcuffs) or Open Office database module (also free but a bit quirky).

Stu


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## Flyinfool (Aug 17, 2020)

That is always what I told a friend of mine. he always left 1 zero off the pices he told his wife. His wife understood that used stuff is never worth more than 505 of new. I always told him that I would buy all his stff for 50% of its value as SHE knew it. It used to get him soooo mad.

PS
Wives aint as dumb as some people think they are. She knew what stuff really cost.


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## Superburban (Aug 17, 2020)

Flyinfool said:


> PS
> Wives aint as dumb as some people think they are. She knew what stuff really cost.


Just like I know she pays more then what she says for cloths, and accessories.


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## BGHansen (Aug 18, 2020)

I thought my father-in-law came up with a pretty good system.  My mother-in-law was executor of her parents' estate.  Six kids in the family.  My in-laws had an appraiser go through the house and put a value on anything over $5.  All 6 were given a copy of the spreadsheet which included the assessed values of the items.  All six walked through the house with a copy of the list and marked on their copy if they wanted the item or not.

My father-in-law summarized the spreadsheets before the family sit-down.  Everything fell into one of 3 categories:  More than one wants it, One wants it, No one want it.  

On the "More than one wants it", the kids were given a slip of paper and told to write their "buying" price on it.  Blind one time bid, high bidder got it and had a dept of that amount to the estate.

On "One wants it", they got it for the assessed value and had a dept of the assessed amount to the estate.

On the "No one wants it", my father-in-law threw a die, kids were numbered based on age.  If your number was thrown, you were an owner and were responsible for removing the item from the house.  If you removed the item, the assessed value was not made a dept to the estate (just subtracted that amount from the total estate value).  If your number came up and you didn't remove the item, you owed the estate the assessed value.  My father-in-law had a dumpster on site to make it convenient for the "no one wants it" items.

It worked out pretty well, no animosity between any of the kids.  Everyone understood the process before hand and understood the "dept to the estate" scenario.  If the cash was $540,000 and the tangible items totaled $60,000, total estate was worth $600,000.  Each kid was going to get $100,000; either $100,000 cash if they took nothing, or $100,000 minus the value of the items they took plus the items they wanted.

Bruce


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