# Cunliffe Horizontal Milling Machine



## Brain Coral (Jun 14, 2014)

Hi there... 

Anyone have any experience with these mills ?

Here's a pic of the mill....






Brian


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## Millbo (Jun 19, 2014)

Not me but it sure looks beefy


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## Brain Coral (Jun 20, 2014)

Hello Millbo,

I attempted to reply to you, but my post went AWOL for some reason.... Yes, this mill is brutally heavy... I ended up buying it yesterday and got it into my shop today. Here are some pics of the mill on the trailer...





















Here are some pics of the dividing head, change gears and factory assembly for spiral milling, etc. ...










Cheers.... 

Brian


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## Brain Coral (Jun 21, 2014)

Here's a few pics of the dividing head on the mill, along with the outboard gearing assembly in place. I just played at it until I completed a gear train, but I don't know anything about it. I have ordered a manual for it from Tony Lathes UK. Lots of work up ahead to clean this mill up.
















Brian


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## JimDawson (Jun 21, 2014)

Very cool.  You are going to be able to make some very fun stuff on that machine.  Great find.:greenwithenvy:


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## Brain Coral (Jun 25, 2014)

I found out today, that this mill is a "universal" mill, in that, the table can swivel up to 50* from horizontal.

Here are a few pics...










Brian


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## Brain Coral (Nov 2, 2014)

Hello all,

It's been about 4 months since I got back to the mill... been a busy and eventful 4 months.... 

So last week, I decided to take the ram off and clean up the ways; as the lubrication of choice in it's former life has been grease... :yikes:
It was difficult to get close enough to the machine to get the slings centered, so I helped it along with some ratchet straps...













The ram is a hollow casting... still no slouch for weight, but it made it much easier to flip the ram over to clean it up. It must be at least a couple hundred pounds, but not much more...

Planer marks are clearly visible on the non-contact areas and just a hint of scraping left on the bearing surfaces...







A dark blue colour is showing on the underside of the ram. This may have been the original colour. I like the present colour of green, but it is clearly a re-paint.

Once the ram was cleaned up, I then went on to the top of the column. I decided to remove the ram clamping bolts as well as the clamps to do a proper clean-up. Unbeknownst to me, the clamps are housed in a through hole, not a bottomed hole and I heard the sickening clatter of the first clamp falling into the bowels of the machine as I removed the first bolt...  anic:

I took a look down the hole with a flashlight and could see that there was an oil return channel in the column casting where the clamp had likely gone down in. So I took the cam panel off the side of the machine, which gave me access to the main gearing and shafts. Shining the flashlight into that maze of shafts and gears as well as squirming my hand blindly into the confines yeilded nothing. Now I'm beginning to fear that I might have to pull all of the shafts and gear clusters to get at this part... so I sat down on a stool to think about it... 

I was looking at the side of the mill where the clamp was when I suddenly realized that the oil sump and cleaner was immediately below and 4 feet down the area where it had fallen. What are the chances that it went down there ?:bitingnails:

Wow... !!!  Was I ever lucky... There it was, so I gingerly put a strong magnet on it and had just enough clearance to get it through between the casting and gear...

Here's the part...




And here's the oil sump opening...




I had planned on removing the sump cover anyway, so I cleaned it up as well as the oil "filtricator" ...







All went back together and I was VERY thankful for my good fortune... 

Cheers... 

Brian


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 2, 2014)

you got yourself a fine machine!!!!
i'm very jealous....:jester:


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## Brain Coral (Nov 2, 2014)

Ulma Doctor said:


> you got yourself a fine machine!!!!
> i'm very jealous....:jester:



Well, don't be jealous just yet.... it was purchased without power to test it, so I may have bought a boat anchor and am investing a great deal of time before I get it into place. I still have to wire in a 10hp RPC to fire it up and move machinery around to get the mill in the position that will make sense.

Here's hoping... 

Brian


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 3, 2014)

Well, before you go throwing it in the water, let me know.
i'd be tempted to go up to New Brunswick and fish it out of the drink!!!!
wiring in the RPC is the fun part, at least for me.
should you need any help figuring things out, i'd be happy to assist you in any way i can.
it looks like you aren't afraid to get down and dirty,
 so i'll be very interested in seeing how this comes along.
good luck.


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## Kevinb71 (Nov 3, 2014)

Looks like a lot of adventures ahead! Seems to be a very well equipped machine.


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## Brain Coral (Nov 3, 2014)

Ulma Doctor said:


> Well, before you go throwing it in the water, let me know.
> i'd be tempted to go up to New Brunswick and fish it out of the drink!!!!
> wiring in the RPC is the fun part, at least for me.
> should you need any help figuring things out, i'd be happy to assist you in any way i can.
> ...



Thanks Doc,

I will certainly be looking for answers about the RPC in the near future.. . 

Brian


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## Brain Coral (Nov 3, 2014)

Kevinb71 said:


> Looks like a lot of adventures ahead! Seems to be a very well equipped machine.



Hi Kevin,

Yes, it is a very well designed and built machine. I just hope that it runs... :bitingnails:


Brian


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## Brain Coral (Nov 19, 2014)

Well, I'm back again... 

I finally got stuff shifted around in the shop, built some shelves and moved the mill into it's resting place. I had posted some pics of that process in another thread, so I will only post a couple here as well.

Shelves built and mill moved...













I could see that the cord for the mill would reach the cord from my 5hp RPC, so I decided to see if it would start the mill in the low speed (4hp) setting. I first had to fill the main body sump with oil, as well as two other gear boxes. It fired right up, but was running in reverse, which meant that the oil pump would not be working. So I stopped the mill, unplugged it and exchange two wires in the plug and it ran in the proper direction. I put it through all of the gear speeds and feeds with everything working very well. I also tried the table feed and rapid traverse, which worked fine, but the "Y" axis feed is not quite engaging. I think that it has something to do with the vertical and cross-feed selector, which seems to be stuck in a neutral position.

I then put the arbor into the mill and the outboard support and made a cut in some aluminium plate. Nice smooth cut... 




I have a fairly major oil leak where the transmission shaft exits the mill...




I'm not sure just how to remedy that, but for now, I'd better get my new 10hp phase converter wired up.

Cheers... 

Brian


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## Kevinb71 (Nov 19, 2014)

Brian
You've got things set up nice there! I need to get some time and do that. It looks like you can get some things done now with the new machine!
Just to the right of the steady rest and follow rest is an item I am not sure what it is? it is the round item threaded at the bottom and has a chuck key? laying in the top. Is it a collet chuck? I can't tell from the pics.


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## Brain Coral (Nov 19, 2014)

Hello Kevin,

Yes, that is a Burnerd collet chuck with an LO mount that fits my Colchester lathe. It is scroll tightened and takes these multisize collets that will hold any size from 1/16" to 1 1/2" and any size in between...







Brian


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## Kevinb71 (Nov 19, 2014)

Ah it was the LO mount that made it look different. Looks like it can come in handy!


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## Brain Coral (Nov 23, 2014)

Well, I got the 10hp RPC all wired up but had the body sump drained of oil, due to that oil leak, so I couldn't test the RPC on the mill.

 So I decided to see if the oil leak was from one of the allen cap screws holding this small casting over the transmission arm...




I could see that the lower cap screw was full of oil right into the threaded hole and surmised that that threaded hole went right through the casting and into the body sump. There appeared to be some remnants of a grey material on the threads of the cap screw. After cleaning all surfaces carefully, I applied a silicone gasket sealant to the threads of both cap screws and the casting contact areas. Impatient as I am, I went ahead and filled the body sump with oil, turned on the RPC and fired up the mill in low speed (4hp).

Yaaaaaaaaaaahhh... !!!   No more oil leak...   I put the mill through it's paces and tried a .125" cut with a .500"x6" cutter in aluminium and it performed like a champ. I then tried a .250" cut and no problems. I don't remember the feeds and speeds, but chips were flying and it still left a nice finish, in spite of the cutter being mounted on a bent arbor.

I decided to take all of the spacers off the arbor to clean everything up and to try and rule out junk between the spacers as one of the reasons for the runout. The last two spacers were very difficult to remove from the arbor and key, but once I had them off I discovered that this arbor had been cut in two at one point and joined back together.... :yikes:  I'm not sure what is in the joint, but the key bridges the joint and was stuck in pretty good.

Looks like I will be looking for a NMTB 50 taper 1" arbor in the near future.

So far so good... 

Brian


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## Brain Coral (Nov 29, 2014)

Here's a bit of an update on the RPC and running the mill. After running on the low speed setting, I decided to try it on the high speed setting (8hp). It sounded like a jet plane winding up to power and then when it reached full speed, I engaged the clutch. Immediately, it tripped the main switch in the mill control panel and stopped, although the RPC was still running right along.

So, I reset the switch and tried it again with the same results. I tried it a third time and was successful in getting the clutch engaged and the spindle turning. I shut it back down and tried a different spindle speed. This time it shut down for good. There was the faint smell of smoke coming from the mill panel and upon opening the panel some smoke escaped. There was nothing obvious that was burnt so I checked all of the fuses. One of the three 50 amp fuses at the bottom had blown.




I have an aquaintance in England looking into obtaining some NOS fuses for me.

In the meantime.... do any of you have any ideas as to what might be going on to blow a 50 amp fuse in the high speed setting ?

I never did check the amps coming from each leg of the RPC but the voltages seemed fine. Maybe one of the motor contactors isn't disengaging in the high speed setting ?

I'm at a loss as to where to begin my troubleshooting at the moment.

Brian


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 29, 2014)

something smells a little fishy,
 an 8 hp should run on about 25 amps , but will take more amps at first to get it spinning.
a 50 amp breaker should be sufficient.
was this mill running on 240v at it's last time in service?

as a precaution,
 i would perform a full winding test with an ohm meter, both low and high speed sets.
the test is performed unplugged with the motor electrically disconnected, so there is no danger to you in performing the test.

i can walk you through the process if you need a hand.


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## Brain Coral (Nov 30, 2014)

Thanks Ulma,

I need all the help I can get...   I would really appreciate you going through the process with me. I don't think that the mill had been running on 240v before now. In fact, it was already equipped with a 4 prong plug at the end of the extension cord and worked just fine on the low speed (4hp) setting.

Cheers... 

Brian


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## Reeltor (Nov 30, 2014)

Brain Coral said:


> Thanks Ulma,
> 
> I need all the help I can get...   I would really appreciate you going through the process with me. I don't think that the mill had been running on 240v before now. In fact, it was already equipped with a 4 prong plug at the end of the extension cord and worked just fine on the low speed (4hp) setting.
> 
> ...



Brian,

Nice universal mill!  Can you explain your Low Speed and High Speed terminology?  Low speed 4-hp, high speed 8-hp.  Do you have two separate motors?  If not, how is the difference in hp being done?

I'd love to help with the electrics; but sorry to say I can connect the color coded wires but that's about it.


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## Brain Coral (Nov 30, 2014)

Hello Reeltor,

The main motor on the mill is a 2-speed motor and the speeds are selected by a switch on the panel...

The switch on the far right is the speed selector...




I don't pretend to know how it all works.

Brian


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## Reeltor (Nov 30, 2014)

Brain Coral said:


> Hello Reeltor,
> 
> The main motor on the mill is a 2-speed motor and the speeds are selected by a switch on the panel...
> 
> ...



Brian, I see the sticker for 440V on the mill.  Have the electrics been changed over for 220/240V?  Perhaps someone with experience can ask the right question and point you to how to check?


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 30, 2014)

at a guess your motor might be still wired up for 440 volts on the 2nd speed....
it didn't like being started like that and the weakest fuse blew as a result.

i would start by asking how many wires are coming out of the motor?
we will have to determine what type of motor we are dealing with.
by the number of leads we can make further deductions. 
please inform me if there are numbers on the wires and how they are connected or
a picture of the wires exiting the motor would be helpful as well as pictures of the contactor lay out.

if you have the wiring diagram that would make things easier as well.


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## Brain Coral (Nov 30, 2014)

Hello Mike,

I am away from home this evening, but I will have a closer look at the mill motor tomorrow night. It appears that both the main mill motor and the rapid traverse motors had been re-wired at some point and the motor tags on both motors have the 440v areas punched by hand to obliterate the numbers. Also, both motors have been painted a light grey colour, quite different than the rest of the machine.

The main motor is a bear to get at, but once I have the back panel off, it may be easier to get at the wiring than I remember. I could only read the motor tag with a flashlight and a mirror.

Unfortunately, there isn't any electrical schematics, either on the mill nor in my manual.

Here's a few pics of inside the panel... from bottom left to right...










Middle left to right...







Top... left to right...










Tag on panel...




What are these adjustment levers for ? ...

Just above the fuses...




And just above the main power input...




I hope that the pics help....

Here's one of the entire panel...





Oh.... and I realize that I will have to address the oil infiltration... :yikes:
Brian


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 30, 2014)

The Levers on the Overload relays set the overload trip point.
once the amperage goes through the OL relay a series of bi-metal contacts are made.
 when the amperage is too great, the bi-metal contacts separate due to heat distortion and contact is electrically broken at that point.
 as the OL contact cools, they will go back to their original positions and electrical contact is once again restored.
those levers just make the OL adjustable for use for different amperage requirements.

the 2 wires that are immersed in oil with wire nuts on them are really making me nervous for you.:bitingnails:

i would address that issue before i attempted hooking up the electricity again.
those wires coming in are large in comparison to the wires they are joined to and may be causing electrical flow issues due to their reduced size, larger wire would not hurt.
oil can be conductive and can cause trouble.

it won't be necessary to do anything with the traversing motor as far as testing at this point.

i'm trying to wrap my head around how they are getting the second speed, for the moment i'm assuming that one contactor is for the main motor, the other contactor is for the traversing motor.

not to try to confuse you but there is machinery that will start in the WYE configuration and RUN in the Delta configuration after the motor is switched to do so, this may be so in your case and would explain the broken fuse. the motor trying to start in the delta configuration was beyond fuse rating

You would start the motor in low speed [WYE 4hp],
 then switch to high speed while the motor was powered up,with the High Speed switch on the machine to utilize the Delta configuration [8hp].
there will be a short lag until the windings are re-energized after switching to high speed.
 then the motor would get up to full speed again and ready for work.
European motors are sometimes utilized in this method.
kinda like this diagram



	

		
			
		

		
	
 or like this 
	

		
			
		

		
	




i'm not saying that is 100% the case, but it is worthy of entertainment as a possibility.


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## Brain Coral (Dec 1, 2014)

Good morning Mike,

I certainly will address the oil issue. Is there a good electrical cleaner on the market that I could safely spray onto all of the contacts to de-contaminate any oil residue?

I never thought to switch the motor speed while already powered up and running in the low speed setting. I am thinking the same about the contactors being used seperately. Once I get the panel cleaned up and new fuses, I might try to start the mill with the panel open to see what goes on with the contactors.

But, first, I will investigate the motor wiring for you.

Thanks for your help... 

Brian


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## Ulma Doctor (Dec 1, 2014)

Good Morning to you, Brian

there are several contact cleaners offered here in the US. I like the CRC electrical contact cleaner. it is safe to spray.
other brands of electrical contact cleaners are available and i'm sure would be effective.
Brake Kleen will work in a pinch, but i would try not to overspray too heavily on plastics.
 a side effect of brake clean is a hazy residue left on parts. if you use it on a electrical surface that will be reassembled, it's best to use a wire brush on the contact surface before reassembly

i sometimes use mineral spirits on a rag to breakdown the gunk, then go over it with a clean rag until it's gone.
Lacquer thinner or MEK is also effective utilized in the same manner,
i would not recommend to spray these on your components.
 there may be unknown consequences such as softening of plastics and pooling of fluids that may not evaporate as quickly in unseen areas.
it could cause a fire hazard should there be an unseen pool of cleaner

a word of caution,
 lacquer thinner can remove some types of paint, and all 3 fluids are very flammable.
make sure the control box has aired out for a couple hours before you plug it in after cleaning as a precaution.
lacquer thinner and MEK will evaporate quickly, but Mineral spirits will hang around a little longer.


LMK your findings as far as which contactor pulls in for which control, that will be a great help
i hope the info helps out.
mike)


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## Brain Coral (Dec 1, 2014)

Hello Mike,

I spent a couple of hours on the electrical panel this evening. I looked at the rapid traverse motor tag and it has been "punched" in the voltage area of the tag with 220v remaining. The main motor is difficult to get at, but with a mirror, I could see that it's tag had also been altered. There was the scratched scrawl of 208v on top. I would have to remove the motor entirely in order to ascertain it's configuration, etc. , which I will do if neccesary. This will mean having to move the mill forward a few feet and then removing the motor, so it will take some time to do so.

I then decided to clean up the "oil spill" in the panel and try to see where it came from in the first place. I also wanted to redo the incoming 3 phase wires with the marrets. First, I removed the face of the incoming power bar and removed the three marreted leads from that. Then I removed the marrets, ground and removed the main cable from the panel. What a mess it was in. The oil had reduced the rubber to an almost gelatin state as well as hardened some of the rubber to plastic. 

There was a few bare spots as well... 













I'm beginning to wonder if this was the source of overload... I then removed the bolts holding the lower assembly to the case in order to get at the oil a little easier. 

The incoming wire was so oil soaked that I had to cut a full 10" of it off completely, before I found dry wire. It was also obvious to me that there was no need to have the marrets and I decided to install crimped loops to the main wires and install them directly to L1, L2 & L3 as well as the ground. In addition, I cleaned up all of the ground contacts and re-installed the ground post on the inside of the cabinet. The copper parts were "outside" of the panel before.

I put things back together for now, until I purchase some electrical cleaner. When I get the cleaner, I will remove all banks of components as assemblies so that I can get at everything and seal the cap screws which secure the panel to the mill. I believe that the oil in the panel was due a failed cam panel gasket (just above the electrical panel). I have since replaced this gasket and it seems to be holding oil just fine.







An aside and potential safety warning to other unlucky dopes like me... 

While working on the panel, I needed a particular small socket from my tool cabinet. This cabinet is in a new location and the concrete has it leaning slightly forward and I've been meaning to shim it up. The top drawers are opening on their own at times, unless I have the top lid closed.

The socket I needed was in the large bottom drawer. As I pulled the heavily loaded bottom drawer out, the top drawers all opened up at the same time, which resulted in the whole two tier cabinet to fall over on top of me as I was squatted down. There must be at least 400 lbs. of tools in the cabinet. A sheet of plywood kept the cabinet from pinning me and I was able to wrestle the top cabinet off of me and pull it out. Then began the task of emptying drawer by drawer so that I could eventually right the cabinet. 

I don't think that I damaged anything, including myself, but I sure have some sorting out to do... :yikes:




Cheers... 

Brian


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## Ulma Doctor (Dec 1, 2014)

WoW!!!
I'm sorry to hear of the trouble, but i'm glad you were not hurt.

if the motor proves too difficult to get to, there are other methods of testing the motor.

after finishing making your wiring repairs and getting a new fuse, i would be tempted to try to fire the mill up again.
here's why,
we already know that the mill ran on low speed without issue, so we know half of the windings are good.
we know that it tried to start, grudgingly, from 0 in the high speed position, the windings could be impaired but the more that i think about it, if there was an open winding the motor would really sound terrible with a loud buzzing and then it would kick the 50 amp breaker. if there was a shorted winding it would definitely kick the 50a breaker.

i'm kind of a gambler when it comes to starting stuff i'm working on.
after safety checks are made, i figure it will either work or it won't .
sometimes sparks fly and the repair process begins  , most times it narrows down what doesn't work.
i don't want you to step too far out of your comfort zone,  but, i'd finish up the repairs and plug her back in and hit the high speed switch after the first speed is up to speed,
just be ready to hit the stop button and/or unplug the mill in case you need to shut it down.

if you wish to OHM test the motor first we could always walk that road first.


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## Brain Coral (Dec 2, 2014)

Hello Mike,

I think that I will have plenty of time to work on the motor in the next few weeks, as I'm sure that it will be at least that long before I recieve my fuses. Also, my work will have pretty much dried up after the next week, so I'll have time to spend in the shop.

I'm also thinking the same thing about starting up the motor in the way that you described. I searched all through the manual and didn't find anything about this method, but it makes sense to me. Oh, the other thing that I noticed about the main motor tag is that it is an induction motor, if that means anything to you.

I'd better get myself off to work...

Brian


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## Ulma Doctor (Dec 2, 2014)

Good Morning , Brian
i'm here to help out, in anyway i can
LMK what you need, and i'll do my very best to help get the beautiful beast making chips again!!!
on the surface of things i really don't get the impression or feel like you have major issues at this point.
i'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

mike)


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## Brain Coral (Dec 5, 2014)

Hello Mike 

Thanks for all of your help with my mill. This site is just great where all of the different strengths and occupations can come together and help one another.

Cheers.... 

Brian


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## Ulma Doctor (Dec 5, 2014)

i'm glad that i'm able to help out)
mike


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## Brain Coral (Jan 1, 2015)

Hello all,

I'm back with a small update... I recieved the new fuses and everything is as it was before I burnt the 50 amp fuse.

I'm thinking that it might be better if I started a new thread in the "Electrical" forum for this mill.

I'll go do that...

Brian


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## Ulma Doctor (Jan 1, 2015)

nice to hear that you got the fuses.
what's the next move?


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## Brain Coral (Jan 1, 2015)

Ulma Doctor said:


> nice to hear that you got the fuses.
> what's the next move?



Hello Mike 

Check out the electrical forum for my new thread...

Cheers... 

Brian


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## Brain Coral (Jan 7, 2015)

This little gem arrived on my doorstep today...








It's the same sized arbor that came with the mill (that one is bent like a hockey stick   :yikes

This one was from Ebay and is in real good shape. Other than a little coolant staining, it looks almost brand new. I hope that it spins as good as it looks...  The gear cutter came with it...

Brian


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## itsme_Bernie (Jan 11, 2015)

Reeltor said:


> Brian,
> 
> Nice universal mill!  Can you explain your Low Speed and High Speed terminology?  Low speed 4-hp, high speed 8-hp.  Do you have two separate motors?  If not, how is the difference in hp being done?
> 
> I'd love to help with the electrics; but sorry to say I can connect the color coded wires but that's about it.




Hey Reeltor

I am not an electrical expert, but have some experience, and a similar setup in my Hardinge Mill.  I don't know if this Cunliffe is the same as my Hardinge, but there is a big lever switch on the side of my machine that cuts the speed AND HP in half.  So 3/4 HP at full speed, and 3/8 HP at half-speed.

I hope this helps


Bernie


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## Reeltor (Jan 11, 2015)

itsme_Bernie said:


> Hey Reeltor
> 
> I am not an electrical expert, but have some experience, and a similar setup in my Hardinge Mill.  I don't know if this Cunliffe is the same as my Hardinge, but there is a big lever switch on the side of my machine that cuts the speed AND HP in half.  So 3/4 HP at full speed, and 3/8 HP at half-speed.
> 
> ...



Bernie, thanks for the info; I find it interesting how they did things in the "old days".  I'd guess that to do the same thing today would be just too expensive.  

I wish you guys would stop buying horizontal mills, your driving the price up on all the "worthless" old tooling!  :rofl::rofl:

Brian, that's a nice arbor you got, if you don't mind how much did you have to give for it?


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## Brain Coral (Jan 11, 2015)

Hello Reeltor,

Yeah, the arbor purchase turned out real good. It looked so good in the pics on Ebay, that I wondered if it was photoshopped, but it is in real good shape. I paid $110.00 USD for it plus shipping. That same arbor runs around $600.00 new.

I haven't tried it in the mill, but I'm sure that it will be much better than the old one.

Brian


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## randyc (Feb 12, 2015)

Although this is an older thread I just had to express my admiration for that old beauty !  It's amazing that you got all of the associated hardware that truly makes that machine "universal".  (I have a German-made universal and I love it but it certainly is not as beefy as your Cunliffe !  I posted a comprehensive review and history of the machine today titled "An Unusual Universal Horizontal Mill".)


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## Brain Coral (Feb 13, 2015)

randyc said:


> Although this is an older thread I just had to express my admiration for that old beauty !  It's amazing that you got all of the associated hardware that truly makes that machine "universal".  (I have a German-made universal and I love it but it certainly is not as beefy as your Cunliffe !  I posted a comprehensive review and history of the machine today titled "An Unusual Universal Horizontal Mill".)



Hello Randy 

I've been away all week and had a quick boo at your thread. I'll have to go back and give it a proper read. Looks like you scored a great mill.

Yeah, I consider myself quite lucky to have all the gearing, gearbox, dividing head and tailstock... all original to this machine. I will revive this thread soon, as_ I am planning on tearing it down some, to clean up the oil passages... now, what button did I press to cause this font ? 

Cheers... 

Brian_


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## randyc (Feb 13, 2015)

Brain Coral said:


> Hello Randy
> 
> I've been away all week and had a quick boo at your thread. I'll have to go back and give it a proper read. Looks like you scored a great mill.
> 
> ...



I look forward to your further adventures


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## Brain Coral (Mar 4, 2015)

Hello all,

I am back with a bit of work done towards tearing down parts of the mill. I began by removing the table from the saddle.

Here's a few pics...













It looks like someone had the table off in the past, but put it back together with the two-peice bronze nuts in a position where it would be impossible to adjust them for backlash. In spite of that, the nuts aren't terribly worn and all of the bearing surfaces look very good.

I then removed bearing caps, the bronze nuts, adjusting collars, change gear fork, and then the feed change assembly as a whole unit...
















Next, was the universal swivel part of the saddle. There were 4 sets of double grub screws and four  1/2" ball bearings that had to be removed, as well as two bolts and brass locking pins. Here is where a good telescoping magnet came in handy.







Two sets of the double grub screws were hiding behind this electrical housing, which had to be removed before I could get to them...







Now the swivel was free to come off...







Then I dismantled the change feed lever and rack and pinion assembly...







Tomorrow, I will remove the oilers from the swivel and clean out the passageways. I will have to order some new wicking felt, but will hold off until I am certain that I don't need some other felts. Then, it is on to the removal of the saddle itself. I don't have a parts breakdown of the mill, so it'll be trial and error.

Brian


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## randyc (Mar 5, 2015)

Great photos and my word, what a STURDY machine !  Cunliffe took absolutely no short cuts in the design of that Universal.  It was clearly intended to be used in a tool room for generations --- seriously, it looks quite capable of outliving three or four operators   I'm still astounded that you got ALL of the tooling for it - usually the items that make a universal most useful have been separated and sold or re-purposed.  (Mine was reasonably complete except for the missing dividing head.)

Thanks for the great documentation !


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## Brain Coral (Mar 5, 2015)

Hello Randy 

Thanks...  I am so glad that I found this mill. It needs a little internal cleaning and a few things repaired, but I also love to take machinery apart and learn how it ticks as I go. I am sure that I will run into some roadblocks along the way, but I'll figure it out with some help from this site.

I finally had a chance to thoroughly read about your Leitz mill. That is one finely crafted piece of narrative, Randy, and that is a wonderful piece of German engineering... !! To find such a mill in your location was lucky enough, but to find it in such great original condition... you must smile every time you see it... 

Cheers... 

Brian


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## Bill C. (Mar 5, 2015)

All the gears look almost brand new.  So do all the lubrication grooves.  I agree with other writers you got a good looking milling machine.


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## randyc (Mar 5, 2015)

Yes I was very lucky Brian, but then you obviously are too !!!  These Universals are capable of such amazing work:  they can chew off cubic inches of material per minute, achieve .0005 tolerances while producing a surface that easily is mistaken for ground.  You're right - I smile every time that I look at the old girl !

When you get around to the narrative regarding cleaning out oil passages, I'll sure be interested in hearing about it.  I have a bunch of old machinery and have tried some simple techniques for clearing out the ancient lube but always interested in better methods !  Thanks -


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## Brain Coral (Mar 9, 2015)

I'm back with just a little update... 

I haven't had much time to devote to the shop over the weekend, so I snuck away from work that I should be doing,  to get a bit more done. I decided to finish cleaning up the swivel, before moving on to the saddle. Starting with the oilers, I had to remove four allen cap-screws holding each oiler to the swivel. These capscrews were imbedded with old chips and took some cleaning before they could be removed. I then carefully tapped on the oilers to release them, keeping the gasket intact. I will attempt to make a cover to replace the missing one....







Each oiler has two holes leading to the bearing/nut/feed gear assemblies, lubricating each side seperately. One oiler has a third hole which feeds both the front and back ways for table contact. Cleaning the oiling passages was fairly straightforward, first using pipe cleaners and mineral spirits, then squirting mineral spirits down through them, and finally using compressed air to blow them out.  * Note to self * .... When applying compressed air to oiling passageways, place a cloth over the exit hole to avoid a muddy spray pattern on the walls and ceiling... 

At the rear of the swivel, between the oilers, is further evidence of the mill's original dark blue color. It's one of the very few areas that the re-painter missed...







I then went on to clean out the two oiling passageways that feed the bottom of the swivel from two zerk fittings at the front. These were liberally greased and took a bit more effort to clean them. Next, I began to clean up the saddle while still in position. By the shadow of the swivel on the saddle, it looks like this mill spent much of it's life with the table at 45* ...




Next comes the removal of the saddle.... this will be far more complicated than the work done so far. For starters, I can't figure out how to get the camlock mechanism off of the handwheel spindle, in order to remove the handwheel. The handwheel must come off before the saddle can slide forward. It was suggetsed to me, that I should try to remove the handwheel and feedscrew all at once.







There is also the gearbox and central gearing to attend to... One part at a time...

Brian


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## Brain Coral (Mar 20, 2015)

Ok, I'm back with some progress... 

The knurled knob you see in the last photo had me pretty much stonewalled. I couldn't remove any of the components from the cross-feed shaft without removing the knurled camlock. These components also prevented me from removing all of the capscrews which held the feedscrew casting to the knee,  preventing me from taking things further apart. I want to get into the cross-feed gearbox to see if there is a sheared gear pin, preventing the power cross-feeds from working.

I had some excellent suggestions and help that led me to be able to finally remove the camlocks, etc. On the collar beneath the micrometer dial, there is a setscrew and a pin opposite that had me stymied. I thought that if I removed the setscrew, then I should be able to drive the pin out from that side.







It turned out that the setscrew merely held the collar onto the shaft in a shallow depression, while the pin sat in a hole leading to a cam portion of the camlock shaft. It wouldn't come out with a magnet, due to dried up crud, so I drilled and tapped it for a #8-32 capscrew and "pulled" it out. Then, everything came of the shaft in quick order.













Brian


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## Brain Coral (Apr 2, 2015)

I'm back again, with a bit more progress in tearing down the mill. Once the handwheel assembly and shaft was removed, I went at removing the gearbox from the saddle...










Now, the saddle was free to slide off...




I then removed the cross-feed splined shaft, gear and change gear from the knee...










This allowed me to remove the remaining components on the side of the knee...




Yesterday, I was able to work on the mill for a bit, and began to prepare to remove the knee. I pulled the gear cover plate off of the top of the knee and made a "poor man's" pin spanner wrench for the locking ring at the top of the elevating screw...










Next was building a cradle which will help in supporting the knee as I remove the elevating screw, and later, when I work on further diassembly of the knee...




Thanks for looking in... 

Brian


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## randyc (Apr 2, 2015)

Dang, Brian, you are one THOROUGH dude !  Thanks for all of those photos, we're following your work with a lot of admiration.  I would still like to know your method for cleaning out those oil passages


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## Brain Coral (Apr 3, 2015)

Hello Randy ,

Thanks a lot....    I did describe how I cleaned out the oiling passageways near the top of the page... but here it is in case you missed it...

"Cleaning the oiling passages was fairly straightforward, first using pipe cleaners and mineral spirits, then squirting mineral spirits down through them, and finally using compressed air to blow them out. * Note to self * .... When applying compressed air to oiling passageways, place a cloth over the exit hole to avoid a muddy spray pattern on the walls and ceiling... "

Some of the zerks are screw-in types, which were removed to better enable the compressed air fitting to get a tighter seal. The mineral spirits sure helped in softening the old dried up grease.

The main reason for removing the knee, is to attempt to free up a shifting gear on a splined shaft that ended up frozen with rust. For some reason, this gear and shaft wasn't getting any lubrication. This gear will enable the elevating screw power feeds to work, and it is also indirectly affecting the power cross-feed.

Here's a few more pics of the progress...










This is the back side of the knee, and is after I cleaned it up. It was just a brown mass of filth with no oiling passages evident, nor the cover plates for the shafting. I have most of the grub screws loosened and will have a go at removing the splined shaft and mating gears. It looks like I will have to replace both gears, as they look pooched...




I also did a cursory cleaning of the face of the column and found evidence of frosting from top to bottom. It must have been an impressive looking machine when new.




I also found a serial number at the upper right hand corner of the column...




Brian


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## hermetic (Apr 3, 2015)

That is one superbly built machine Brian, and you are making a fantastically thorough job of the rebuild , and I am loving it. I have a Harrison Horizontal mill with a vertical head as well, simila, but smaller.
Phil
UK


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## randyc (Apr 23, 2015)

Sorry about asking you to repeat yourself, Brian, I was distracted by the many fine photos.  I echo Phil's comments !


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## Brain Coral (Apr 24, 2015)

No problem Randy   and thanks for the kind words, Phil 

I'll be back in a little while with some progress and photos...

Brian


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## Brain Coral (Apr 25, 2015)

I'm back again... 

I've not got a lot further, due to lack of time and frozen parts... I did get the knee raising shaft and pinion out, but this time I had to make a small slide hammer to remove the camlock pin...










Next, was the removal of the three gears inside the knee. From what I could see through the side hole, they are all in real bad shape, due to coolant contamination and lack of lubrication. I found an oiling hole that was plugged solid with chips. It likely had a zerk fitting in it at one time, as the hole is threaded.

I made a slightly larger slide hammer to start with the one shaft which already had a threaded hole...










Next, I drilled and threaded a hole in the larger plate to remove it with the sLIde hammer. It took a lot of tries, with heat, PB Blaster, slide hammer, over and over again...




Then I was able to drive the shaft and clutch assembly out through the back by using a long rod through the knee raising shaft housing hole ...










As you can see, things are in rough shape. I still have to get the last stubborn gear out, before I determine a plan of action.

Cheers... 

Brian


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## Brain Coral (Feb 17, 2016)

Hello all 

I finally have a bit of an update on the mill. I have been unsuccessful in getting the last gear out. It is behind this plug that the splined shaft is heading to, which will not budge. I would have to drill out the plug and destroy it to get it out and I really don't have the money nor time at this point to keep working on the knee.




So, for now I have decided to put the mill back together. This will mean that I won't have power feed to the knee, but I can live with that for now. I will clean up all of the sub-assemblies and repair things as I go.

The first thing that needs looking into is the transfer gear box that provides all of the power feeds and direction of feed...




I couldn't keep it filled with oil, as all of the oil seals were shot and I suspected that the bearings were also gone because of coolant infiltration. This mill has had a hard life and was not maintained whatsoever...










There must have been a half inch of solid "muck" in the case. I managed to free up the change gear fork, remove it and clean up one half of the case...




I had to make a tool to remove this plug that held a shaft in place...




Here's the two halves cleaned and ready for the parts to go back in. All of the oiling holes and passages have been cleaned, as well as all of the threaded holes have been chased with taps...




Here's a pile of parts cleaned and oiled...




I have three oil seals as well as 5 bearings on order to finish rebuilding the transfer case. I put the parts back in the case that don't have bearings or seals...










I also installed the split nuts and roughly adjusted them for backlash...




One bearing came in yesterday from France. I will get this pressed in tomorrow. For now, it's just sitting there...




Cheers.... 

Brian


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## Reeltor (Feb 17, 2016)

Brian,

I'm afraid that if I tore down a machine like that it would remain in milk crates forever.  I am in awl of your work on this mill.  
The mill is in remarkably good condition; especially after seeing what gunk was in it.
One question; are you sure that all of the zerk fittings should be greased?  I know that may older Bridgeports were ruined when an oil zerk was greased, and starved surfaces of lube.  Guess what I'm saying is, just because someone in the past greased the zerk doesn't mean it was correct.  
You are doing a great job, I look forward to seeing it run!

Mike--reeltor


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## jeff_g1137 (Feb 17, 2016)

Hi
Great job, if there is any thing you need from the UK let my know & i will do my best to help.
jeff


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## Brain Coral (Feb 17, 2016)

Hello Mike,

Thanks for your kind words...   I'm just learning as I go along.

That's a good point to make about the zerks. No, all of the zerks are oiling zerks. The only spots that get grease is the motor bearings and the rear clutch mechanism has a grease pot. My manual has all of the lubrication points clearly marked although, all of them on this machine were thoroughly greased, as you suspected. As I go through each component, I clear out the old grease and ensure that oil will freely flow through the zerk and passageways.

Once I get the bearings and seals installed and the transfer case sealed and back together, I will move on to the saddle. There are also some gears and bearings that I will have to pull and inspect. Once the saddle is cleared the mill will be ready to go back together. I have most of the other sub-assemblies already cleaned and oiled and ready to go, so it shouldn't take too long.

Brian


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## Brain Coral (Feb 17, 2016)

jeff_g1137 said:


> Hi
> Great job, if there is any thing you need from the UK let my know & i will do my best to help.
> jeff



Hi Jeff 

Thank you for your offer. I might have to take you up on that if I run across another original bearing that I can't source locally.

Cheers... 

Brian


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## Ulma Doctor (Feb 23, 2016)

i hope you are having good luck Brian,
it looks like things are moving forward. 
keep us posted!


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## Brain Coral (Feb 24, 2016)

Hello Mike 

Yes, slowly but surely.... While waiting for the bearings for the transfer case, I decided to take the saddle gearing apart.




Lots of brown muck, but once I had it cleaned up some, it was obvious how the gears came out. The gears are in good shape, but one of the bronze bushings is wallowed out and the shaft is badly pitted. I have a new bushing on order and will make a new shaft once I press in the bushing.







Brian


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## Brain Coral (Mar 8, 2016)

Well, I finally received my bronze bushing and went at repairing the saddle. The shaft took some time, as it had quite a few exacting features to machine, and I only had 3" stock to start with.

Here's a pic using HSS ...




And here's a pic using carbide at .070 DOC. Chips were just pouring out and the finish was real nice...




Here's the finished shaft and bushing, ready for installation. I had to shorten the new bushing, as well as machining oiling grooves...  (not the internal spiral grooves)




Here's the finished repair...







Now I'm just waiting for my bearings to arrive, so that I can complete the transfer gear box repairs.

Brian


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## Martin W (Apr 9, 2016)

Hi Brian
Just read your entire post on the milling machine.  What a great adventure you have taken. Looks to me like you are going to have one fine milling machine.
Regards
Martin


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Brain Coral (Apr 9, 2016)

Hi Martin 

Thanks very much... I am still trying to chase down the last two bearings that I need, then I can finally move forward. The bearings that I had ordered from Canadian Bearings look like they won't come in until at least July, so to Ebay it is...

I saw that awesome lathe that you purchased recently... I am quite envious...

Brian


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## Martin W (Apr 9, 2016)

Thanks,
Why so long from Canadian Bearings? 
Martin


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Brain Coral (Apr 9, 2016)

Well, these angular contact bearings were apparently coming from Europe and for whatever reason, they have been backdated for shipping. I did find what I needed on Ebay and would have went that route had I known that after waiting for nearly 6 weeks, I'd have to wait until at least July.

Brian


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## Brain Coral (May 15, 2016)

Hello all 

I finally received the last two angular contact  bearings.

They are NOS and the staining is from the old grease paper.




I wasn't sure just how the bearings were supposed to be oriented at first, so I did up a rough sketch to get my head around the forces on the bearings and how they are supposed to work.







I now  have the transfer case back together with new seals and bearings throughout. I couldn't find what I needed in a thin gasket material, so I went with a gasket sealant. Hopefully I have the proper clearance for one of the shafts, which relies on the cast iron bore as a bearing surface. Before I put it back together, I placed that shaft into the housing with lots of oil on the shaft and bearing surfaces and closed up the case, tightening the bolts without anything between the case halves. The shaft rotated freely, so I should be all right. I will fill the transfer case with oil this morning and see if it leaks or not.

Here's the transfer case mounted to the saddle...









I also installed the tapered gib for the saddle and have it roughly adjusted for now...




Not a lot of progress, but a bit of a hurdle has been overcome. It should be rather straight ahead in getting the mill back together now. I will have much more incentive in finishing up the job, because, like the fool that I am...   I am heading out this morning, with trailer in tow, to go look at another machine....  I never seem to find plug and play machinery. They always have to be fixed up....  but I guess that I find it really satisfying in getting a piece of machinery working better than when I got it.

Sucker for punishment... 

Brian


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## Brain Coral (May 15, 2016)

Well, I'm back after my road trip... and, sadly.... not empty handed... 

Here is my latest "project" ...




Here it is, safe and sound in my driveway...




Here's the serial # complete with a U.S. Navy war badge... spent some time in the trenches, I suspect... 




This is, I suspect, a 15" x 36"  South Bend Tool Room lathe from the mid forties. Unfortunately, some cheap bugger removed all of the brass information plates, as well as the bronze/brass tumbler/reverse handle 'cause there was lots of money in scrap... 

I checked out the wear on the ways, and as near as I can tell, there is around an .008" drop from the tailstock end to the headstock. This lathe will need some TLC. I will open up a new thread in the appropriate place before I discuss this lathe any further. I'm just having a celebratory beer, before I head down to the shop and figure out how I'm going to get this lathe off of the trailer and into my shop.

Cheers... 

Brian


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## FOMOGO (May 15, 2016)

She's a beauty. I'm wondering If anyone has figured out a rig for grinding your own ways, by working off of one true or shimmed true surface of one of the ways? Guess I should google it and find out. Mike


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## FOMOGO (May 15, 2016)

To answer my own question, I found this pic. Has anyone here tried this? Mike


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## Martin W (May 18, 2016)

Very good looking lathe! Looks like a lot of good times ahead.
Cheers
Martin W


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## Brain Coral (May 26, 2016)

Back again... 

I ended up using my 2 ton shop crane and took the lathe apart, piece by piece to get all of it off the trailer and on the floor.

Back to the mill... Now I have even more incentive to get the mill back together.... I'm running out of real estate and I can't have two projects on the go at once... 

I had a bit of an oil leak in the transfer case, but it looks like I have that solved. There was some free time this last weekend, so I started putting parts back onto the mill.

First thing was the cross slide components...




The cross slide feeds didn't work before I took things apart, but by manipulating things mechanically, everything works as it should. The transfer case overhaul was well worth it.

Next was the components on the left side of the knee. There are two limit switches, one mechanical one for the cross slide and an electrical one for the knee. In addition, there is a lever that coordinates the knee feeds and the cross feeds, which was frozen before, but now works like a charm...







Next to install was the compound table swivel...










The compound swivel table is held in place by 4 sets of double set screws and four  1/2" ball bearings. I replaced the ball bearings with new ones and adjusted everything to a nice rolling fit, without any play...




Next was the electrical control boxes for the rapid traverse and limit switches...




Lastly, I installed the oiling cups at the back of the compound swivel table with new wicking and will wait to see that they are all working properly before I install the rest of the components for the table...







Brian


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## jeff_g1137 (May 26, 2016)

Hi
Looking good, it will be like a new machine in a bit, or better LOL

Jeff


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## Brain Coral (May 28, 2016)

I had yesterday come as a surprise day off, so down to the shop I went to try and finish up the mill. The wicking was working very well, so I then installed the central feed gear assembly and feed change mechanism and lever...







Next, I installed the split nuts and bearing caps. The split nuts are held from rotating by a woodruff key that also allows the nut to slide back and forth to allow backlash adjustments...








I then temporarily installed the lead screw, to make certain that the split nuts were timed with each other and most of the backlash taken out, as well as the key in the feed gear arrangement was aligned with the keyway in the leadscrew, before installing the table,,,




Here's the table going home...







Once I had the end bracket installed, I wound the table to the far right to further adjust the backlash in the leadscrew...







With most of the remaining parts installed, I just had to power up the mill to see if my repairs were successful. Yaaaaaahhhh... !!!!!   Both the X and Y power feeds and rapids work smoothly and flawlessly, as well as all of the limit switches performed admirably...




Just a few small parts to install and the mill is complete.

Cheers... 

Brian


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