# Removed the Spindle from the SB 10K



## DoogieB (Sep 11, 2014)

I've had my South Bend 10K since this spring and was lucky enough to purchase a lathe that was in pretty good shape.  While a large overhaul isn't necessary, I felt it was time to start on some preventative maintenance.  Since the lathe doesn't *need* new paint (although it would look nice), I'm just going to do small repairs on the lathe between projects.

The first and most import job on the repair list is pulling the spindle and replacing the spindle oil wicks.  A lubricated spindle is a happy spindle and obviously this is the last part of the lathe you want to ruin.

For reference, I recommend the book "A Guide to Renovating the South Bend Lathe".  The same supplier also sells a nice die-cut wick kit.  Also check-out this video from forum member Halligan142 for more information on removing the spindle:










Here you can see that the take-up collar was removed and the puller was installed to remove the spindle.  The book would have you knock the spindle loose with a hammer, but like Halligan142 a spindle puller was used.  Why not, since it was already assembled?  The spindle puller is just a length of 5/8" all-thread, with appropriate nuts and washers and a exhaust-pipe coupling to fit over the spindle and press against the bearing housing.




This is some of the weird cellophane-like packing that was found when the spindle was pulled.  It was only present at this bearing on the chuck side so it very well could be just junk from a turning job.  In any event, I didn't replace it.




The spindle and thrust bearing cleaned-up and ready to reinstall.  You can't feel those faint lines shown on the spindle.




Some parts cleaned and ready for installation.  Much of this job is cleaning parts.  Two spindle oil wicks are at the bottom, with the original on the left beside a new one.  As you can see, the old one was well used. It's quite possible this is the original 40 year old wick, which is well over the book's recommended service life of 5 to 10 years.  Probably very few SB lathes enjoy such a vigorous service schedule, however.




Since this job wasn't planned to be a total dissemble and restoration, the headstock was left in place on the bed which also saved the original South Bend Texalon belt.  The oil reservoirs were cleaned as best as possible with brake cleaner, pipe cleaners and compressed air.  Well used tar-like spindle oil, metal shavings and more of that cellophane were some of the junk removed from the oil passages.  Make sure the oil drain holes at the bottom of both sides of the bronze bearings are clear as well as the breather holes above the Gits oilers.

If you think you are going to need to adjust the bearing clearance, now would probably be a good time to loosen-up the shim packs.




Parts cleaned and ready for the spindle installation.  You can see the wire stuck into the spindle wick through the oil drain hole to keep it down for installation.




Looks like I forgot to take a picture of pressing the shaft home, but the procedure is well documented in Halligans's video, including your reaction when you forget to put the spindle through the belt. 







The bearings were adjusted following the procedure outlined in the book. The recommended bearing spacing for a SB 10K lathe (Bronze shell bearings) is .0007-.0010.  I'm not used to working "to the tenths" and found the procedure a bit tedious.  Also, the Starrett Last Word indicator with .0005 resolution that was used was a little coarse for the job.

I ended-up shooting for "a hair over .001" and calling it good.  I found keeping the indicator as close as possible to the bearings gave the most consistent results.  On the far side of the spindle that meant removing the take-up collar.  Yes, the spindle will move left and right when you do that.

The book warns that maintaining minimum bearing clearance is vital for adequate lubrication of the spindle, so I felt better being slightly on the open side.  The spindle feels great when turned by hand, but if oil consumption becomes a concern it's easy enough to revisit this task at a later date.

Wrapping Up:

While I can't really tell the difference in operation, I feel better knowing the spindle bearings have new wicks delivering oil.  Being manufactured in 1974, this South Bend is considered a late model and yet it's still 40 years old and the wicks were dirty and worn out.  With the proper tools, it's not that big a job and unless you know the date when the lathe was serviced I highly recommend you just pull the spindle and get it over with.

The next lathe maintenance project will probably be the QCGB, but I have a few other projects I want to complete first.


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## aametalmaster (Sep 11, 2014)

Thanks for the post and pics...Bob


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## Halligan142 (Sep 11, 2014)

Nice write up.  And yes forgetting the belt sucks )


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## engelbob (Dec 8, 2015)

Thanks for referring me to this maintenance item.  I'll be doing it soon to my newly acquired 10K, weather permitting.


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## parshal (Aug 22, 2016)

DoogieB said:


> The oil reservoirs were cleaned as best as possible with brake cleaner, pipe cleaners and compressed air.



So, can you elaborate on this?  I have no way to drain the spindle reservoir on my 10k short of removing the headstock and turning it upside down to drain through the oil filler.  I've been afraid to spray brake cleaner down there thinking I'd never get it all out without turning the headstock over.  I'd like to clean mine as well since I've replaced the wicks.


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## brino (Aug 22, 2016)

Thanks for the write-up and great pics!
It is much appreciated.
-brino


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## DoogieB (Aug 22, 2016)

parshal said:


> So, can you elaborate on this? I have no way to drain the spindle reservoir on my 10k short of removing the headstock and turning it upside down to drain through the oil filler. I've been afraid to spray brake cleaner down there thinking I'd never get it all out without turning the headstock over. I'd like to clean mine as well since I've replaced the wicks.



First, you might want to read this if you haven't already:

http://www.wswells.com/data/howto/H-2.pdf

During this last bit of lathe maintenance I decided to "change the oil" in the spindle cavities since it's been a couple of years since I did the work described here.  All I did was prop the Gits oiler caps open, unscrew them until they were pointing down and let the old oil drain out.  I shot a little brake cleaner in the breather holes above the oilers, mainly to make sure that they were clear and let them sit empty overnight.   The solvent I use usually dries-up in a few minutes.   The next day the oilers were returned to the usual position and filled with oil.

I'm not sure if this will get 100% of the old oil, but it's good enough for me.


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## parshal (Aug 22, 2016)

I've read that document and mine has no drain plugs.  I don't have a suction device that they mention but I guess I could figure something out.  I've read before about turning the Gitz oilers down but I don't know if that's going to empty a reservoir if it is below the base of the oiler.  I've not seen anything about how big those reservoirs.

Anyway, I think I'll look for some sort of suction device.


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## DoogieB (Aug 22, 2016)

How much of a cavity is below the Gits oilers?  It's been awhile since I've looked in there.


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## parshal (Aug 22, 2016)

DoogieB said:


> How much of a cavity is below the Gits oilers?  It's been awhile since I've looked in there.



That's what I'd like to know.  I just used a syringe with a tube from a brake cleaner can and sucked the oil out of the oiler.  A lot less than I thought came out.  I pushed a pipe cleaner down in there a couple of times as well.  The oil I pulled out looked pretty darned clean.  I put in a little kerosene (per the manual linked in a previous post here) and ran the lathe for about a minute.  None of the kerosene in the oiler went down which tells me it's not being sucked up the wick.  I sucked out the kerosene and turned one oiler facing down and nothing came out.  I turned it sideways and injected kerosene and it all pretty much came out.  I put the oiler back upright and filled both with fresh oil.

Unless I have a blockage, I'd say there is no reservoir and it's using the oiler as the reservoir.  However, since I replaced the wicks a while back I've not been low on oil in the oil.  It makes me wonder if any is being wicked up to the spindle.  I check the spindle bearings for heat by hand when running and the only time it's gotten warm is when the bearing cap screw is relatively tight.


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## DoogieB (Aug 22, 2016)

At the very least there is that little bit of capacity in the Gits oiler as well as the cavity that leads to the spindle wick, which could be the largest part of the spindle oil reservoir.  It might be that if you took the Gits oiler off that it's a straight run into the headstock, with a 90 degree turn straight-up to the spindle.  That would be the most logical, but who knows?  Hopefully someone that has been in this part of the lathe recently can answer.

I know that my lathe is slowly consuming oil with cool bearing caps so everything should be fine.  It doesn't seem like it takes very much, but I just had to refill the oil can so it does add-up over the months.


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## parshal (Aug 22, 2016)

If I tighten the bearing caps to spec (measure with a gauge) the front bearing cap gets warm after a minute or two.  I've just back it off to where it won't get warm.  I'm guessing I'd need to add a shim but I'm not sure.  I'll have to re-read the rebuild manual.


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## martik777 (Aug 23, 2016)

The reservoir holds under a teaspoon. It is below the gits threaded hole so will not drain out.  I made a nipple that screws into the gits hole (5/16-24) and extends out an inch or so, then blast some compressed air in the small hole above  and the oil will flush out thru the nipple.  Repeat with mild solvent (paint thinner, wd 40 etc)  then flush with clean oil a couple times.  I wouldn't worry about it though. My well used 9A is 72 years old and shows no real spindle or bearing wear. 

Nevertheless, I do still re/re the spindle and wash out the wicks every couple years.


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## parshal (Aug 23, 2016)

Good plan!  I'm going to try that.


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## parshal (Aug 24, 2016)

Hi Martik, that worked pretty darned well!


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## martik777 (Aug 25, 2016)

Glad it worked for you.


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