# My PM-728VT



## xyz (Sep 1, 2021)

I started to uncrate the PM-728VT crate today.  

Some people have posted videos on how to use an engine hoist to raise the mill onto the table.  I am thinking of doing it that way, too.


----------



## KevinM (Sep 1, 2021)

I think that the manual might have instructions for lifting, my 727 manual did.


----------



## xyz (Sep 2, 2021)

KevinM said:


> I think that the manual might have instructions for lifting, my 727 manual did.


Thanks for thinking about the problem.

Yes the manual describes a method.  I am hoping that the base will fit in between the spread of the legs of the hoist.  I have an alternate plan, in case that doesn't work out.

Hope it doesn't rain for an hour or so tomorrow.


----------



## DBlue (Sep 2, 2021)

xyz said:


> Thanks for thinking about the problem.
> 
> Yes the manual describes a method.  I am hoping that the base will fit in between the spread of the legs of the hoist.  I have an alternate plan, in case that doesn't work out.
> 
> Hope it doesn't rain for an hour or so tomorrow.


I've got a Harbor freight 2 ton hoist and the stand fits between the legs on it, I just got my 728 last Tuesday and got it set up with it. I followed the method in the manual on lifting it, worked perfect...I used a  6 ft. lifting strap.

When I put my stand together I noticed that the chip pan would move really easy when it's set in place....I didn't want to be fighting it to try and line up the holes while setting the mill on it so I actually super glued around the bolt holes on the stand and then set the chip pan on it and got the holes lined up and then pressed it down...I let it sit for about an hour, when I lifted and set the mill on it, the pan did not move, installed the bolts with no problem.


----------



## xyz (Sep 2, 2021)

The mill is uncrated.  It was well 'packaged': bolted to the pallet.  Getting the box of parts that becomes the cabinet stand off the crate was tricky, but doable alone with a gantry and or an engine hoist.

The cabinet stand is bright blue.  Much prettier than in the videos or photos.  It took a while to assemble it, but the holes all lined up and the carriage bolts were easier to use than if it had been just bolts.  Some bolts are difficult to install, but doable.  Just a heads up:  there are similar sized bolts and nuts.  I started the assembly with them all sorted into groups and counted.  I won't tell you who kicked over the tray and got them all mixed up.  When assembled the base is pretty solid.

Next step is lifting the mill off the pallet and placing it on top of the stand or the base.


----------



## xyz (Sep 2, 2021)

DBlue said:


> I've got a Harbor freight 2 ton hoist and the stand fits between the legs on it, I just got my 728 last Tuesday and got it set up with it. I followed the method in the manual on lifting it, worked perfect...I used a  6 ft. lifting strap.
> 
> When I put my stand together I noticed that the chip pan would move really easy when it's set in place....I didn't want to be fighting it to try and line up the holes while setting the mill on it so I actually super glued around the bolt holes on the stand and then set the chip pan on it and got the holes lined up and then pressed it down...I let it sit for about an hour, when I lifted and set the mill on it, the pan did not move, installed the bolts with no problem.


I have the same engine hoist.  The mill is less than 500 pounds, so the arm of the hoist can be fully extended.  Tomorrow:  That's what I will try.

Super glue:  Good idea.  Often, I use a magnet to hold things in place. I don't have a big enough magnet for the weight of the chip pan, so, I'll give super glue a try.  Thanks for the suggestion.  I was thinking of using some kind of caulking so that oil will not run down into the cabinet.

Have you given any thought to power assist for the Z axis?  Eventually, I am going CNC with mine.  I already have PM's add on parts.  But before that I have some cutting to do.  Maybe I'll just live with hand cranking the Z until the CNC conversion.


----------



## RetiredRich (Sep 3, 2021)

Glad to see some people getting their 728 mills. I ordered mine in June with a DRO. If their web site is still accurate I should be getting delivery in September. I'm retiring in 2 weeks, so I'm hoping this will give me the kick that I need to refocus my efforts. 

Enjoy the machine and let us know if you also have the issue with leaking way oil as described by others on another thread


----------



## xyz (Sep 3, 2021)

RetiredRich said:


> Glad to see some people getting their 728 mills. I ordered mine in June with a DRO. If their web site is still accurate I should be getting delivery in September. I'm retiring in 2 weeks, so I'm hoping this will give me the kick that I need to refocus my efforts.
> 
> Enjoy the machine and let us know if you also have the issue with leaking way oil as described by others on another thread


Leaking way oil:

I know there will be oil everywhere.  Been there, done that.  But I want to minimize it, if I can.  I'm concerned about the long bolts that go through the bottom of the machine, then through the chip tray and through the top of the cabinet base.

Looks like Permatex Type-1 RTV (Room Temperature Vulcanized) Silicone Gasket Maker might do the trick.  J-B Weld 31314 is also RTV.

Ideally a very little silicone would be needed where the bolt penetrates the chip pan and the cabinet base.  But how to apply it.

I am thinking, after fully mounting the mill for positioning, with the pan and the cabinet minimally glued together, raise the mill, then apply only a little silicone where the bolt penetrates the holes.

Any thoughts would be welcome.


----------



## xyz (Sep 3, 2021)

xyz said:


> Leaking way oil:
> 
> I know there will be oil everywhere.  Been there, done that.  But I want to minimize it, if I can.  I'm concerned about the long bolts that go through the bottom of the machine, then through the chip tray and through the top of the cabinet base.
> 
> ...


@mksj come to the rescue:  In an earlier post he says ... He is talking about a lathe, but same goes for bolt holes, mill or lathe ...

"Not using sealant around the mounting bolt holes will be a problem for you down the line, it is not about using coolant but all the oil that collects in the pan in particular around the open gearbox. Even with sealant I had some oil leak into the headstock cabinet, the silicone sealant did not hold up well to oil. When I remounted my lathe at a later point I went used polyurethane sealant, also put some under the bolt washer on the the lathe base. I have not had an issue since."


----------



## xyz (Sep 4, 2021)

The 728VT is now sitting on the cabinet base, on top of a beat up pallet.  The attachment bolts are just finger tight.

It was delivered on a double pallet:  The mill was sitting on a non standard smaller pallet which in turn was on top of a large pallet.  My Harbor Freight 2+ ton pallet jack fit the large pallet, but there was no way that it would fit the smaller pallet.  Couldn't get it up there, nor get the small pallet down.  Because the overall pallet was large, the Harbor Freight engine hoist was not usable.  I elevated the hoist with jacks and scaffolding, but at 9 inches of elevation, it didn't look safe, so I abandon that approach.

I ended up using the home made gantry with an electric winch.  That did the job ok, but I had to be carful.

I hand tightened the bolts for now.  Tomorrow, I'll see about sealing the bolts so that oil does not leak into the cabinet.

Someone posted a video in which he built a pallet for the 728VT mill.  That way he can use his pallet jack to move his mill.  I have all my tools on wheels, other than the lathe which will stay where it is.  But the mill is by far the heaviest of my tools, so I am thinking about building a hefty, standard pallet for it.  One complication is that makes the work level higher.  The work would have been high for my comfort to begin with and I would have used a platform, anyway.  So building a higher platform is lot an issue.  I'll decide tomorrow.

It  needs to be functional so I can install the QCTP on the 1640TL.

I want to make some chips.


----------



## Cletus (Sep 4, 2021)

My goto sealing compound in the shop is 3M 5200 Fast Cure Marine


----------



## sunrise305 (Sep 5, 2021)

xyz said:


> I started to uncrate the PM-728VT crate today.
> 
> Some people have posted videos on how to use an engine hoist to raise the mill onto the table.  I am thinking of doing it that way, too.


Can you please confirm the width of the delivery pallet?  PM's website says it's 34" wide.  My door is 34.5" so any wider and it won't fit uncrated.  Thank you!


----------



## xyz (Sep 5, 2021)

sunrise305 said:


> Can you please confirm the width of the delivery pallet?  PM's website says it's 34" wide.  My door is 34.5" so any wider and it won't fit uncrated.  Thank you!


I'll measure and let you know tomorrow, if you can wait until then.   It was TOO large for the Harbor Freight 2 and half ton engine hoist.  I ended up using a home made gantry with an electric winch.


----------



## sunrise305 (Sep 5, 2021)

Thanks.  Tomorrow is fine. And when you say it was too large for the harbor freight hoist do you mean the pallet was too wide for its legs to straddle it? I was planning to use a similar lift.


----------



## xyz (Sep 5, 2021)

I spent the day building a small pallet that just matches my Harbor Freight pallet jack.  Someone on the internet suggested it.  Here is a picture of the 728VT sitting on the pallet.  It's not too large, not too small, just right.

The pallet is composed of three layers of wood. 

The bottom layer is composed of two 1x2 boards.  Spar varnish was not applied to them:  They touch the garage floor and are sacrificial.  They hold together the four 2x4's that run parallel with the tines of the pallet jack.

The middle layer is composed of four 2x4's.  Two are outside of the pallet jack; two are inside the tines.  They are coated with spar varnish.

The deck is made of 2x6's and one 2x8 which was ripped so that there is no space or crack in the platform.  The levelling pads sit center on the front and rear 2x?.  It's spar varnished in anticipation of coolant and oil spills.

All boards were put through a jointer to make a reference surface; then the long edges were put through the jointer to get square sides.  Similar pieces of the boards were put through a planer to get like thicknesses.  All surfaces don't get glue, but the glue surfaces are fresh wood because of the jointer and the planer.  The pallet was glued and kept rigid while the glue set with brad nails.  Planing and sanding was done to flatten the inevitable unevenness of the joints before applying the spar varnish.

The gantry and power winch were used to transfer the mill from the large delivery pallet to the just made one.







Today was wook working, all though it was for a metal mill.  Maybe power and chips tomorrow.


----------



## xyz (Sep 5, 2021)

sunrise305 said:


> Thanks.  Tomorrow is fine. And when you say it was too large for the harbor freight hoist do you mean the pallet was too wide for its legs to straddle it? I was planning to use a similar lift.


The pallet was too wide and long.  I tried to raise the hoist, but when it looked dangerous, I switched to the gantry, less dangerous but still dangerous.  The machine just barely fits between the legs.  I couldn't see how not to ding it because lifting it cause it to tilt.

The gantry is nothing more than two HF 'under hoists'  on a triangular platform on wheels.  There is a two-2x4 that I use when its about 500 pounds or less that has to be lifted.  I use multiple 2x6 and or 2x8's depending on the load.  I am telling you what I did, not suggesting what you might do.  Lifting is inherently a dangerous chore and caution is advise.


----------



## xyz (Sep 5, 2021)

sunrise305 said:


> Thanks.  Tomorrow is fine. And when you say it was too large for the harbor freight hoist do you mean the pallet was too wide for its legs to straddle it? I was planning to use a similar lift.


Here is a picture just before I abandoned the use of the engine hoist.  I'll get you the measurements tomorrow.  The shop is 2 miles away.

Maybe they used the larger (lower pallet) because ....

The smaller pallet upon which the machine directly sits is non standard form. I couldn't get my pallet jack into it, EVEN if I could get it off the larger pallet.

I'm just noting, not complaining.  My buddy thinks I am having too much fun solving problems.  So far, it's all been solvable, and most importantly, there have been no damage to the machines.

At the right edge of this picture, foreground to the ladder, and behind the handle of the pallet jack, a portion of the under hoist is shown on its 3-legged platform which is on rollers.  It's one half of what I call my home made gantry.


----------



## xyz (Sep 5, 2021)

Cletus said:


> My goto sealing compound in the shop is 3M 5200 Fast Cure Marine


thanks

But what to seal !


----------



## xyz (Sep 6, 2021)

xyz said:


> The pallet was too wide and long.  I tried to raise the hoist, but when it looked dangerous, I switched to the gantry, less dangerous but still dangerous.  The machine just barely fits between the legs.  I couldn't see how not to ding it because lifting it cause it to tilt.
> 
> The gantry is nothing more than two HF 'under hoists'  on a triangular platform on wheels.  There is a two-2x4 that I use when its about 500 pounds or less that has to be lifted.  I use multiple 2x6 and or 2x8's depending on the load.  I am telling you what I did, not suggesting what you might do.  Lifting is inherently a dangerous chore and caution is advise.


You asked for measurements.  They are below. 

I had not broken down the crating nor the pallets, yet.  So you can see how it was delivered to me.  I lifted the cage off the pallet to expose the mill.  My situation may be special, because the 748VT was delivered with the TL-1640 (PM-1640TL) and a saw, in three crates, on a flat bed with a fork lift.

The three images show how it was delivered; the small pallet (the machine is bolted down at 45 deg as shown by the black marks, be careful of the handles) on top of the large pallet; and the large pallet by itself.





The "yard stick" is 48 inches long.






The two pallets together are 10 1/2 inches tall.  The Harbor Feight 2 1/2 ton pallet jack fits into the lower pallet.  The bottom pallet is, in inches,  4 5/8 x 33 3/4, x 28 3/4.  

Below is a picture of the smaller pallet by itself.  It is, in inches, 5 1/2 x 28 x 28 3/4.  Notice that the pallet cannot be used for this pallet.  Notice the black marks on the small pallet.  They look like two square brackets facing each other.  Those are the marks left by the mill.  And if you look carefully, you can see the four bolt holes near the corners of the brackets.







Hope your delivery is like others that I have seen on the internet.


----------



## sunrise305 (Sep 6, 2021)

xyz said:


> You asked for measurements.  They are below.
> 
> I had not broken down the crating nor the pallets, yet.  So you can see how it was delivered to me.  I lifted the cage off the pallet to expose the mill.  My situation may be special, because the 748VT was delivered with the TL-1640 (PM-1640TL) and a saw, in three crates, on a flat bed with a fork lift.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much!  Hugely helpful. Most importantly I do see the larger "bottom" pallet is in fact just shy of 34" wide.  Also extremely helpful to see these pics and I now know that getting the mill off the upper pallet and onto the stand will require more than a standard 2.5 ton engine hoist.  That's what I had planned to use.  Maybe I could add additional supports inside the lower pallet and then trim it to match the width of the upper pallet?  Or is even that smaller pallet too wide for the standard hoist?  Pic attached.  Again...many thanks!


----------



## xyz (Sep 6, 2021)

sunrise305 said:


> Thank you so much!  Hugely helpful. Most importantly I do see the larger "bottom" pallet is in fact just shy of 34" wide.  Also extremely helpful to see these pics and I now know that getting the mill off the upper pallet and onto the stand will require more than a standard 2.5 ton engine hoist.  That's what I had planned to use.  Maybe I could add additional supports inside the lower pallet and then trim it to match the width of the upper pallet?  Or is even that smaller pallet too wide for the standard hoist?  Pic attached.  Again...many thanks!


The mill is at 45 degrees to the pallet.  Furthermore, when you lift it via a single point (or just one loop), then the mill tilts.  You have to lift more than you might originally think because of the tilt.  From experience, I know that as the feet come off the pallet, when just one is touching, the whole load will rotate.  There is not that much room between the fork legs of the engine hoist.  That's why they say it's a two man job:  one person makes sure that the mill does not touch the hoist.  (But he better do it from a distance:  never from under a load!)

Even with the gantry, I added two additional straps, directly to the height adjustment bolts, to adjust for the tilt.

How thy delivered my machine is quite different than other pictures that I saw on the internet.  

Any cutting of the pallet is not a good idea until the load is secure:  You would not have a chance to change your mind in case you end up in a box canyon.

Pictures might help yet the next hobbyist.

Good luck.


----------



## addertooth (Sep 6, 2021)

Yep, I hoisted mine up today with the smaller 1 ton harbor freight engine hoist.  It was a pain on many levels. I welded up an oversize 
table with a 3/8th inch steel plate in the middle  The blue chip tray was a great drilling templet for the bolt holes.  Under the 3/8 plate 
there was also angle iron braces on the table, which were drilled through as well.  So all total, the mill has a half inch of steel the bolts 
run through to secure the mill.


----------



## xyz (Sep 10, 2021)

Rough lumber cut and fit for a platform to make work on the 728VT mobile and comfortable for me.  When the jointer returns fixed, I will make it water and oil tight.


----------

