# Does This Machine Look Exactly Like The Pm 1127vf?



## NoobCanuk (Mar 28, 2015)

I was looking at a metal lathe in Canada and came across this one.  The price would be close to Matt's at PM (it is on sale right now) so with dollar value and all considered it would be comparable in price if not cheaper.  I was curious since I know little to nothing about metal lathes and want to get into machining.  Here is a link from Garant Machinerie in Quebec.

http://garantmachinerie.com/en/shop/wsl-v-series/

For me there is not many differences on the outside.  I saw the emergency stop button is a bit different on the top.  But overall they look like almost mirror images of each other.  I was curious what you guys think?  Since if I pick it up I would likely just use everything online refering to the PM 1127 machine to get it set up and going.  I can't really find much online about Garant company or their machines so that is why I thought I'd ask here.  Hopefully someone can read the spec's and let me know their opinions.

Any response is greatly appreciated.

Curt


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## tmarks11 (Mar 28, 2015)

Quite probably from the same factory that PM buys them from.  If it is more reasonable to buy from them, since you are in Canada, than go for it.  Just remember, there is no customs on machinery improved to Canada from the US (just the normal GST, etc), and I am betting they are not a stocking dealer (and neither is PM).

Just one note: if you can afford the space and the extra money, than seriously think jumping up to a 12x36.  Getting a D1-4 cam lock chuck vs. a bolt on chuck is a huge advantage.  As is power cross feed and the extra stability/rigidity.

Our motto: helping you spend your money (and then some) since 2007....


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## NoobCanuk (Mar 29, 2015)

tmarks11 said:


> Our motto: helping you spend your money (and then some) since 2007....


 
LOL  If only I did have some money I'd be happy to spend it for a bigger PM machine.  Wife claimed my money and what she left me with my kid claimed the rest.  I would love to get an RML 1440V for my garage but not a hope of buying a $30k machine.  A shop in my city priced it out for me.  $27,900 but it would have the CSS feature and a couple other lesser add ons.  But of course I'd still have to add on the GST to that price so would end up over 30k by the time things were said an done and it got delivered.  So for now I will settle on a tiny hobby machine till I can squirrel away some cash for a bigger and better machine.  I do however have to admit the premium machine from PM is a superior one especially for the price.  I like the QCTP feature and a few other add ons that the Elite machine would sell as extra $$$.  But for now I can only afford the basic machine just waiting to hear back from the company hopefully Monday and get things finalized.  But after reading a few forums I found one other gentleman that bought the exact same machine.  Apparently it comes with or without a power cross feed.  I forgot to ask the dealer if the one he quoted me on had that feature.  It sure better or else the PM machine would for sure be the way I'll end up going.


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## tmarks11 (Mar 29, 2015)

If Garant can match PM price then go for it.  I would also recommend calling PM and seeing what they would charge for delivery to Canada, you never know.

WRT QCTP, you are better off buying from some place like Enco when what you want is on sale and there is a 20% coupon to boot (which happens frequently).  Something that can easily be added at a later date.

I forgot that the PM1127 has power cross feed; it is one of the few lathes smaller than 12x36 with that feature.

Have you looked at the Grizzly offerings?  They have quite a few lathes in a variety of sizes and prices, and will ship to Canada.


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## lpeedin (Mar 30, 2015)

That is the same machine, of which I have one.  Rigidity is one of those things that you would be hard pressed to see any real difference on vs a 12 x 36.  This machine has 7" wide ways, which is the same as the 12 x 36 machines. The big difference is in the variable speed vs geared head machines.  The geared head machines simply have more torque at the low speeds.   If this lathe had a longer bed, you would see a lot more people buy it.  It does everything I need it to do, so I didn't see the need for the extra 9" on the bed or 220 volt.


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## compsurge (Mar 30, 2015)

Looks like the Weiss machine (the last run of PM-20/25/30MV mills were Weiss as well).

http://www.weiss.com.cn/product/&pmcId=38.html


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## qualitymachinetools (Apr 3, 2015)

Does look like the same machine, but there is no way they will beat our price with the same accessories. Also can't tell the spindle bore size on that one, I was not able to find the specs.

 Hey I can get you that RML-1440V for $10,000 less than they are quoting you, are you sure thats not in the price range? (just joking, much more machine than you need I am sure!)

 And yeah we do not deal with Weiss anymore. At all. Just to be clear, they DO NOT make machines. They just did quality control for a bit for us. Which was fine, but we would have had to raise prices too much, for no reason. And a lot of other problems. The machines were fine once we went through them and did what we needed, but just bad business overall. 

 But anyway, if you can get a good deal on that one, why not. Just make sure they can supply parts down the road. 

 I've had quite a few orders recently for Busy Bee Lathes for parts only, because Busy Bee won't help them out. But I have to stop doing that, its taking too much of my time. I am not saying we are always the absolute fastest on parts, but I can always get them. Seems that many others can't.


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## NoobCanuk (Apr 3, 2015)

Well I told my wife I am opening up a seperate account just for me.  She can't get my saved up money anymore. LOL  I may just take you up on that offer for an RML 1440V some day. LOL  But not for a few years now.  I will call QMT shop in a few minutes and ask a few questions.  I may order a machine from you today.  Likely just a 1022 or 1030V that is my budget.  But we will talk.  Thanks again for your responses.  Very much appreciated.


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## NoobCanuk (Apr 3, 2015)

Yup, I tried to get a machine through Garant but things didn't work out.  So I ordered my PM 1030V through QMT just now and paid for it in full before my money disappears again.  Now it is just a waiting game for the new machines to arrive.  Thanks again to Matt or whoever it was I talked with on the phone.  They really do go out of their way to help a guy out.  Much appreciate the friendly service and help he offered.


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## wrmiller (Apr 3, 2015)

Which is why I have two of Matt's machines. He takes care of his customers.


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## tmarks11 (Apr 3, 2015)

qualitymachinetools said:


> Hey I can get you that RML-1440V for $10,000 less than they are quoting you, are you sure thats not in the price range? (just joking, much more machine than you need I am sure!)



A Matt sighting on Hobby-machinist!  

Must be that rare day that you finally got everything unstacked and shipped out!


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## NoobCanuk (Apr 3, 2015)

Yup.  I think his popularity from top notch customer service is really cutting into his free time. LOL  I bet he has a nightmare trying to get any free time with the orders he gets non stop.  I read his name on pretty much every machining forum I have visited.  The only negatives I ever read about his shop is the delivery times (which doesn't affect me at all).  I'm getting a lathe purely for hobby / education and have been waiting for well over a year to get the money and time to place an order.  So a month or two wait won't bother me in the least (even if it ends up being a longer wait I won't care).  But hearing the quality of his machines (especially in relation to his prices) I'm happy to wait a little longer to get a decent machine for my budget.

Oh, and a happy side note.  I am glad I paid for the machine in full today.  My wife got home and said, "I was thinking about that money "we" have in the bank".  I simply told her my lathe was paid for and the money is gone.  That ended the discusion and I get my lathe still.   But she is happy because she got a new Equinox to drive.  So happy her happy me.   All I have to do now is save up for a QCTP to add to the machine later and a few other odds n ends I want to get.  But at least I have the basic machine paid for finally.


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## tmarks11 (Apr 3, 2015)

She got a $24k car, and you got a $1.5k lathe?

Seems like you should call Matt back, and at least tack a mill onto that order...


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## NoobCanuk (Apr 3, 2015)

Yup.  The life of a married man.  Sad thing is I started with enough saved up to get the 1127 easily (possibly the 1236).  But "unexpected" things came up and my savings started to dwindle quickly. LOL  Between the car and the little guy needing his toys I was left with enough to get the 1030.  I'll see if I can swing the QCTP from Matt before the machine arrives, but I have to make sure those unexpected things stop appearing.  Like the new remote car starter yesterday. LOL  The new car had to have that also.  But at least my lathe will be paid for with cash so no monthly payments or crazy interest rates from financing.  Plus the wife did admit once the car is paid off we will be banking money for what ever dream lathe I want.  So that RML 1440V will be mine one day.  Most likely in about 20 years. LOL  But at least Once I have the lathe in my garage I can start the painfull process of tooling it up and saving for the mill. LOL  Tools just never end at my house.  Being a carpenter by trade I have tons of wood tools.  Now adding metal working tools to the mix our garage is getting smaller and smaller by the year.


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## wrmiller (Apr 4, 2015)

NoobCanuk said:


> Yup.  The life of a married man.  Sad thing is I started with enough saved up to get the 1127 easily (possibly the 1236).  But "unexpected" things came up and my savings started to dwindle quickly. LOL  Between the car and the little guy needing his toys I was left with enough to get the 1030.  I'll see if I can swing the QCTP from Matt before the machine arrives, but I have to make sure those unexpected things stop appearing.  Like the new remote car starter yesterday. LOL  The new car had to have that also.  But at least my lathe will be paid for with cash so no monthly payments or crazy interest rates from financing.  Plus the wife did admit once the car is paid off we will be banking money for what ever dream lathe I want.  So that RML 1440V will be mine one day.  Most likely in about 20 years. LOL  But at least Once I have the lathe in my garage I can start the painfull process of tooling it up and saving for the mill. LOL  Tools just never end at my house.  Being a carpenter by trade I have tons of wood tools.  Now adding metal working tools to the mix our garage is getting smaller and smaller by the year.



I understand, really. My 1340GT cost me a new car for the wife as well. 

It's all good though, and I still may end up with three tons of mill and lathe in my garage, but not until I do the final move at retirement time.

If you are just getting into metal working you still have to tool up this new lathe of yours. And make space for it. Have fun.


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## tmarks11 (Apr 4, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> ...I still may end up with three tons of mill and lathe in my garage, but not until I do the final move at retirement time.


I did my "final retirement move" two years ago, and started buying the bigger machines that I have avoided for the past 20 years (prior life in military meant a move every 2-3 years, which is a PIA with heavy iron... although my last move had one 26' u-haul with nothing in it but tools  and machines, and tipped the scales with about 14000# of stuff in it.... a bit overloaded...).

Of course I am not retired yet... gotta get the little ones out of the house first.


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## NoobCanuk (Apr 4, 2015)

LOL  Yeah, I'm lucky on the moving part.  Been in the same house for 8 or 9 years now.  Plus I have one corner in the garage prewired for 220 1 ph or 110.  I told my wife when I was building the garage I wanted tools to put in that corner and she agreed.  So I have the space and the power, just a lack of tools now.   But now that I finally got my lathe ordered I can finally display something there.  I sure would have prefered the 1236, but I'm happy with a 1030 for a starter.  And yes I am going to be adding some tooling to the budget as well.  I am pretty sure I can swing the QCTP Matt has advertised on his website for the 1030 but I'll wait till closer to the delivery date to pay for that as well.

I will now need to decide what kind of tooling to get and what priority.  I was thinking to start off I'd try and make some cone shaped pieces.  Hopefully sometyhing simply to learn.  My son loves to put party hats on his Thomas trains so some shiny aluminum party hats may be in order. LOL  I can make my son happy building stuff for him and wife will see me building something and son is happy and I am happy, so that will make her happy.  I win all the way around.

My eventual goal is to try and build some pea shooters.  They are used for driving nails into concrete forms.  For those interested they can be googled easy enough.  But I would need to learn threading, knurling & boring at the very least to make those. 

I know I will eventually outgrow the 1030 since I do want to learn as many manual machining skills as possible (I want to learn real machining skills not pushing buttons to do cnc).  I know cnc is faster and probably far more accurate but then you don't get to learn the skills that I see in a lot of trades that are being lost.  But for now while we pay off the wifes new car I can learn on the 1030 and upgrade in a few years.  I did threaten the wife though, and told here if I really get into machining I will have to to get that RML lathe. LOL  Her car better last a long long time (unless someone has an RML in new condition they would swap for an equinox).


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## tmarks11 (Apr 4, 2015)

The cheapest way to start is with HSS.  Which actually is easier to get a nice cut in Aluminum with than carbide, especially on the size lathe you have.

HSS blanks are about $3 each, and each will give you years of use.  I would recommend starting with 3/8" x 3" (PN 383-5824) like the ones you see here from Enco:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=162&PMCTLG=00

The only downside is that you have to learn to grind them... but it is not hard.  Here is the first in a three part series... good stuff:

Grinding HSS Lathe Tools - Part 1: Grinding a RH Tool

If you don't want to grind, I still recommend you stick with HSS for now.  AR Warner makes HSS indexable tooling (significantly more expensive than HSS blanks):

http://www.arwarnerco.com/c-12-turning.aspx


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## NoobCanuk (Apr 6, 2015)

WOW!! Thanks tmarks11.  I am checking out those pages now.  I was planning on using blanks like you suggested to start.  I think my wife would be a lot happier if I bought blanks over cutting into our "our" money account for the expensive tooling.      I will have to watch the videos later but I could sure use some good advice on grinding blanks down for different purposes.  I do have a bench grinder already but I will definitely have to get a new wheel on it.

The links are especially helpfull though.  Thanks.   I'll likely call QMT again or swap some e-mails with the shop when they are free and discuss their QCTP.  I know I definitely can't afford an alloris, but the knock offs I should be able to swing and have some money left for the actual blanks I will need.  I have not even tried to search for a grinding wheel to shape the blanks but if you have any advice or anyone else does I'd sure love to hear it.  Those blanks though sounds about perfect for me.  Cheap and should last a long time.  I doubt I will start off like a lot of guys do though.  I won't be running the tool anywhere remotely close to the chuck.  I'll run it a ways away and do what I can to avoid a costly "crash".  I hear some noobs (exactly like me) do that.  Once I get comfortable with the machine I may get closer but for the first while I am more the cautiously paranoid type.  It may not be the ideal way to learn machining, but if it saves me costly repairs I can handel that while I get more comfortable on the controls.

But to all the guys that responded to my post I am gratefull to you all for your input and suggestions.  It really does help a new guy out a lot.  The best teachers are always the guys with experience.  So thanks.   You are all grately appreciated not only by me but I am sure by the rest of the guys reading these forums while trying to learn the basics also.


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## tmarks11 (Apr 6, 2015)

Enco has good prices on phase II QCTP,,, especially if you wait for a 20% off coupon, which happens about once a month.  Make sure you get the wedge type.  Grizzly is another place to look for QCTP.  Definitely a must buy.


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## Morgan RedHawk (Apr 6, 2015)

wrmiller19 said:


> Which is why I have two of Matt's machines. He takes care of his customers.



Ditto!

Congrats on the new machine, post up some pics when you get it!


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## NoobCanuk (Oct 26, 2015)

Well I'm a happy guy.  My new machine finally arrived.   I probably would have gotten it Friday but the delivery company called my house during the couple minutes my wife was out running a quick errand.  So I had to call them back when I got home and they were closed for the weekend.   But I left a message and they dropped off my new baby this morning.  I sure was glad I had a pretty nice delivery guy.  My garage door broke 2 weeks ago so I had to get the lathe dropped off in the alley and hauled down a narrow bumpy dirt path to the back yard and into my garage through the man door.  It was  actually a lot faster than I thought it would take and the delivery guy had a few toys to make it fast and easy.  So thank God for him (and yes I did slip him a bit of a thank you for all the extra work he did even though it wasn't his job).

But now that my baby is in the garage I have to finish getting the crate off it and see how tough it will be getting it onto my workbench.  I suspect it will be a few weeks before I get it set up but it is nice to see it here and know I will eventually be learning some new skills and hopefully making some new toys as well.


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