# Bandsaw chip brush, roll on the side or under the blade?



## Ken from ontario (Sep 23, 2020)

I have seen many mods that use the brass wire wheel rotating from under the blade, it is easy enough to do it that way but something in my head keeps telling me to install the wheel rolling on the blade from the side.
  Wouldn't it be more efficient in removing chips if installed from the side? . what is your opinion? do you prefer one mod over the other?


I have already made the wheel holder (bearing, 1/4" arbor in a block of aluminum) but there's not much room around the sides of the blade (unless I use a 1" wheel instead of 2"), plenty of room if installed from under but if I go from side, I will be limiting the adjustment of the roller guides.
These two pics are not mine but show the two types of installation.


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## Flyinfool (Sep 23, 2020)

Both pics look like the wire wheel is mounted running on the bottom of the blade, the one is the second pic is just angled to utilize the full width of the wire wheel. The first pic is parallel to the blade and will only contact in a narrow line quickly becoming useless.


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## SLK001 (Sep 23, 2020)

I would think that mounting on the side would be the better option.  From the side, the bristles would be trying to push the metal particles out of the gullets, while from underneath, the bristles would just be pushing the particles more into the gullets.  Gummy metals like aluminum need to be pushed out of the gullets, not into them.  Also, lubrication oils will tend to stick the particles to the blade, so side brushing should be more efficient in removing them.


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## Ken from ontario (Sep 23, 2020)

SLK001 said:


> lubrication oils will tend to stick the particles to the blade, so side brushing should be more efficient in removing them.


I see your point on lubrication oils.


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## Flyinfool (Sep 23, 2020)

With the brush at an angle to the blade you will have sideways wiping action to push chips out of the gullets. I do not think any of the brush methods will do much for wiping off oil stiction of chips. ANd side mounted will only hit one side of the blade. It will not take long before there are a lot of chips in the brush, it is quite realistic that the brush could deposit chips from a previous cut in a differant material onto the blade. The oils will make this worse.


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## projectnut (Sep 23, 2020)

I have a Startrite H175 horizontal/vertical saw in my shop and a friend has an Ellis 1600 saw in his.  Both machines have the wire wheel style brush on the side of the blade.  Here's a link to the Ellis 1600 parts manual:



			http://www.ellissaw.com/wp-content/uploads/parts_catalog_2h_Pages2b_c-11.pdf
		


The location of the chip brush is shown on page 3.

Here's a link to a Startrite sales brochure:



			https://www.sterlingmachinery.com/media/brochures1/file/startrite-horizontal-band-cut-off-machines-brochure.pdf
		


All their smaller saws use an wheel style angled brush.  It's under a guard just to the right of and below the right side blade guide.  The largest machines use a pair of straight brushes angled toward the blade inside the right blade guide assembly as shown on page 11.


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## Ken from ontario (Sep 23, 2020)

It's good to know the side mounted version is what's used by bigger manufacturers.
 I'm working on similar mount as Eliis1600, (Thanks Projectnut) only because I'm half way there but if I had more room on the sides of the blade I would use two wheels like  Startrite on page 11.
Thank you all for confirming what made more sense.


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## mikey (Sep 23, 2020)

Ken, the best way to answer this question is to test it. I did exactly that and ended up with the brush in-line with the blade. I tested one brush vs two, side vs head on, static vs ball bearing supported and wound up with a ball bearing supported wheel in line with the blade under the lower blade guide. I use a 1" fine wire wheel and it has lasted over 10 years at this point and has not worn significantly or needed replacement.

There is not a lot of definitive information on bandsaw brushes on the net. Lots of opinions but rather than rely on that, I tested it myself. I use only stick wax on my saw so I do not know how using oil or coolant would affect performance, nor do I intend to find out because I find the wax sufficient for my needs. What is most important to me is that my blades last a long time; my current Lenox Die-master 2 blade is going on to its 6th year and is still going strong and I believe much of that has to do with the chip brush. 

As to how well it works, this crappy picture is Delrin. Sorry for the quality but that blade is running. Note that the right side above the Delrin bar is nearly clear of any debris. 




That is what the chip brush does. So, in my opinion, a single rotating in-line brush works well and seems to significantly extend the life of the blade. It is cheap and simple to make and has a very good service life. I have a write up on this that I intended to post but haven't gotten around to it.

Anyway, hope this helps.


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## aliva (Sep 23, 2020)

I just converted a wood band saw to metal and also put a brush on the blade. I mounted mine under the table before the blade contacts the wheel. I angled mine to intersect the blade at about 45'. Works great. Although some members suggested this was a waste of time and not worth it. I totally disagree. For 4$ the brush may prevent contamination of the wheel tiers.


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## DavidR8 (Sep 23, 2020)

aliva said:


> I just converted a wood band saw to metal and also put a brush on the blade. I mounted mine under the table before the blade contacts the wheel. I angled mine to intersect the blade at about 45'. Works great. Although some members suggested this was a waste of time and not worth it. I totally disagree. For 4$ the brush may prevent contamination of the wheel tiers.


At the risk of hijacking this thread, @aliva can you share a pic of your setup?


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## aliva (Sep 23, 2020)




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## projectnut (Sep 23, 2020)

aliva, totally off subject, but I noticed a pressure washer in your last post.  Is that a Northern Tools "Powerhorse" 1.3 gpm model?  If so how is it working out for you?  I purchased one a few months ago and it turned out to be a bust.  It wouldn't maintain the selected speed, and wouldn't idle down when the trigger was released.  In addition it wouldn't work on any GFI circuit.  I ended up returning it and replacing it with a NorthStar gas powered model 157123.  The gas model cost far more than I originally intended to spend, however I'm very happy with the results.


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## aliva (Sep 23, 2020)

The pressure washer is made buy Subaru from Costco. 3100 PSI. I've had it for 2 years' Its gas powered. Once it wouldn't power down , so I cleaned the pressure vale and all is good.


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## Ken from ontario (Sep 23, 2020)

mikey said:


> Ken, the best way to answer this question is to test it. I did exactly that and ended up with the brush in-line with the blade. I tested one brush vs two, side vs head on, static vs ball bearing supported and wound up with a ball bearing supported wheel in line with the blade under the lower blade guide. I use a 1" fine wire wheel and it has lasted over 10 years at this point and has not worn significantly or needed replacement.
> 
> There is not a lot of definitive information on bandsaw brushes on the net. Lots of opinions but rather than rely on that, I tested it myself. I use only stick wax on my saw so I do not know how using oil or coolant would affect performance, nor do I intend to find out because I find the wax sufficient for my needs. What is most important to me is that my blades last a long time; my current Lenox Die-master 2 blade is going on to its 6th year and is still going strong and I believe much of that has to do with the chip brush.
> 
> ...


Interesting post Mikey, you mentioned you got your answer by testing it yourself, that's actually what I did and as I mentioned in my post, the easiest, most straight forward position was inline and under the blade but what I saw after testing it (without actually cutting any metal) was the groove in the middle of the wire wheel, so I wondered how long would it take for this groove to widen to the point of becoming ineffective.
To remedy this  I thought a slanted wheel would kind of push the chips from the side and therefore (in theory) there's less chance of a groove taking shape. also, the rotation of the wheel kind of expels the  chips toward the outside and away from the blade so these  in my head were totally legitimate reasons to go through the pain of mounting the wheel from the side, I was all gung-ho about designing a contraption with that in mind until two thing happened:
#1, I read your very convincing report .
 #2, after fiddling with my bandsaw all afternoon I have come to the conclusion that there's just not enough room to safely mount a 2" wire wheel from the side, period.. believe me I tried with the actual wheel/wheel holder/arbor but  it looks like it can only work the from under and in-line with the blade just like your set up .

 Up to now I have shamelessly copied many of your methods, (and  quite a few of your designs) so this is no exception. why change now right lol.
Thank you for your post Mikey.


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## mikey (Sep 23, 2020)

I'm glad you tested, Ken. Unless you do, you really don't know. As for "wearing a groove" in the wheel, I found that a bearing supported wheel doesn't wear much at all. This has to do with how that wheel is adjusted. When properly set, the wheel just lightly brushes against the blade; the blade drives the wheel. This allows the wheel to knock off most of the chips and keeps the blade pretty clear after it passes the wheel but without much wear at all on the wheel itself. My wheel is now over 10 years old, has never needed adjustment, works as well as it did when I built it and my blades last for a very long time. Good enough for me.

I am not saying that other methods won't work. I am saying that I am using what was most effective for me based on actual tests. I built multiple models and made test cuts and measured the results (amount of chips collected). Go with what you find works best for you.


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## lis2323 (Sep 23, 2020)

I use compressed air to cool the blade and clear chips on my saw. 

Coolant cannot be used as the Ellis has rubber tired wheels. 
















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## lis2323 (Sep 23, 2020)

A toothbrush works well also. Very economical. Flirting with my dental hygienist always gets me an extra brush. 







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## hman (Oct 1, 2020)

... gives a whole new level of meaning to the term "tooth brush"!


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