# PM1030 tripping breakers on startup



## r-mm (Dec 27, 2020)

Has anybody had a problem with a PM1030V tripping breakers when first turned on? I originally had this machine on a 15 amp circuit shared with other things in the garage such as lighting. Today I put it on a dedicated 20 amp circuit that has an extremely short run from the panel. I was surprised to see it trip this as well. This never happens with the machine running. It only ever happens when first turning the machine on.

I have a lot of electrical consumers in my shop and never have trouble with false trips ever so I have confidence in the supply side and reason to suspect the machine. 

I will admit to finding the DC motor control on this machine slightly odd the way you have to turn it on then turn the pot down to minimum speed in order to get it to rotate. I wonder if some aspect of the controls create some initial high current condition.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 27, 2020)

Does the circuit have a GFI breaker or plug?
I’ve read that DC motors and control boards are not good companions with GFI protected circuits.


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## r-mm (Dec 27, 2020)

No both breakers / receptacles are conventional and new.  Breakers are GE to match the panel.


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## erikmannie (Dec 27, 2020)

I have a PM-1030V on a shared 15A circuit, I have never had this problem of tripping the circuit breaker.

I do happen to have the lathe (and DRO) plugged in to a power strip with an On/Off switch. 

When I want to use the lathe, I plug in my power strip; after that, I turn on the power strip.







When I am finished working on the lathe, I turn off the lathe & DRO. Then I turn off the power strip. Finally, I unplug the power strip.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Dec 27, 2020)

I would open the electrical housing and check that they are all tight. When my Pm-727m started doing it, it had melted the terminal block just from looses wires.


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## markba633csi (Dec 28, 2020)

How many horsepower?  Can the machine be configured for 240 volt operation?
-Mark


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## kb58 (Dec 28, 2020)

As a test, do you have anything else that takes similar current that you can plug into the same outlet?

And as suggested, check the connections at the circuit breaker and the outlet end for integrity.


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## higgite (Dec 28, 2020)

r-mm said:


> No both breakers / receptacles are conventional and new.  Breakers are GE to match the panel.


Does it do the same thing on both new breakers?

Tom


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## 7milesup (Dec 28, 2020)

r-mm said:


> I will admit to finding the DC motor control on this machine slightly odd the way you have to turn it on then turn the pot down to minimum speed in order to get it to rotate. I wonder if some aspect of the controls create some initial high current condition.



My 1022 does not operate like that.  So you are saying that you have to have the control all the way down when you turn it on?  If that is the case, there is either something wrong or they changed how the controls operate.  Mine is about 4 years old.  I can start it at any speed.


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## Cheeseking (Dec 28, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Does the circuit have a GFI breaker or plug?
> I’ve read that DC motors and control boards are not good companions with GFI protected circuits.



Sounds like a loose connection on the machine. 
Depending when the house was built garages receptacles are now gfci per code. They can be flaky. I know my freezer in the garage is on one and it trips out of the blue 2-3 times a year.


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## Tio Loco (Dec 28, 2020)

@7milesup PM changed the 1022. I asked because I noted Blondihacks 1022 will start up at any speed.  The new ones, you can engage the start switch, but the motor will not turn until you return the speed knob to zero.


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## 7milesup (Dec 28, 2020)

Ahhh.  Ok.  Interesting.  Thanks for the update.


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## COMachinist (Dec 28, 2020)

r-mm said:


> No both breakers / receptacles are conventional and new.  Breakers are GE to match the panel.


Am I missing something, why 2 breakers for a single phase 20 amp circuit?
CH


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## 7milesup (Dec 28, 2020)

COMachinist said:


> Am I missing something, why 2 breakers for a single phase 20 amp circuit?
> CH


I think he meant that he has two circuits and both of them are new.  Not that he has two circuit breakers on one line.


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## Logan Novice (Dec 28, 2020)

A couple of general possibilities to consider.
First, if your "GFI" has an arc fault interrupter (a code requirement in some areas) and your DC motor produces a spark on start up it will trip the breaker.
Next, you can sometimes get a faulty GFI right out of the box.  Inexpensive (bargain) GFI's can be trouble.  If you can swith it out with another make/model you may find a solution.


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## COMachinist (Dec 28, 2020)

Don’t you only need a GFI circuit if you using flood coolant on the lathe? A dry circuit has no need of a GFI unless you have your lathe in the kitchen or bath room. You don’t even need a GFI if your using a fog buster to cool you tool. Just install plain old 20 amp breakers no need for GFIs. Did you get the breakers at Lows or The Depot? Are they Chinesium breakers? Have you plugged the lathe back into the old circuit to see if it the lathe is tripping those breakers? If you have a DVM check for shorts and voltages.
CH


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## r-mm (Dec 28, 2020)

Hi guys yes I am confirming I tried this machine on two separate circuits both of which I installed myself. One used a new 15 amp breaker the other used a new 20 amp breaker. I have wired many many circuits including 240 V for motors over 2 hp and have never had one single false trip ever. 

I am starting to think this problem only happens when I start the machine with the pot turned above minimum. While the controls regime means the spindle will never rotate whatsoever under this startup condition I don’t know whats happening ‘behind the scene.’ Could there be some sort of current rush and brake that would cause a strange reaction at the breaker?


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## r-mm (Dec 28, 2020)

Because of how the machine is installed it’s difficult to get great access to the back but I did remove the panel removed and reinstalled all the connections to the control board and checked the rest, snugged them where I could. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary I did not see any signs of arcing.


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## r-mm (Dec 28, 2020)

Another thing to add the previous owner who bought the machine New said he had an issue where the lathe would not exceed 750 RPM. PM sent him a new control board which is presently installed and cured that problem. The fact that I am having this issue makes me wonder if the control board design or manufacture in general was problematic or if anyone else had intermittent issues like either of the above


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## GunsOfNavarone (Dec 28, 2020)

If you checked all your connections looking for loose ones....perhaps it's you start capacitor (I believe that has a start and a run capacitor) Being that you must start in the lowest switch position... Maybe I missed it, if you run this on a circuit that doesn't have a GFI, this no longer trips? Heck, I replaced my spindle bearings and used a little too much grease, that was causing tripping until I immediately took it back apart and removed some. I have a GFI in the garage I don't go near anymore as my wife tends to pop in from her bathroom...the woes of home shops...  : (


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## r-mm (Dec 28, 2020)

No GFI on any of the circuits in question. 

I thought start/run caps for ac motors only?


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## Flyinfool (Dec 28, 2020)

Do you have a clamp on amp meter with peak reading. If so clamp it on and see what your starting surge is.
Give the machine a spin by hand and see if something feels tight. Being tight will make a bigger startup surge.


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## r-mm (Dec 28, 2020)

I wish I did - my clamp on meter doesn't peak hold.   When I was adding the circuit I did do some quick checking and never saw anything even approaching double digits no matter how I started up.  It is possible there was a spike I couldn't see.  I'll try again and attempt to get it to trip.


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## Cadillac STS (Dec 28, 2020)

When I put in my Bridgeport it would blow breakers, changed them out, etc

turns out the brake was on and the spindle couldn’t move. That blew the breakers.

try to move the spindle by hand and see if it is free.


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## r-mm (Dec 28, 2020)

The spindle does rotate by hand.  I spin it by hand when I am threading sometimes.  I don't know how free is free enough but it doesn't take much effort.


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## Cadillac STS (Dec 29, 2020)

r-mm said:


> The spindle does rotate by hand.  I spin it by hand when I am threading sometimes.  I don't know how free is free enough but it doesn't take much effort.



What about today since the change?  You used to spin it by hand when threading when the machine was running but what about today?

If you can spin it by hand then it is not bound so little effort normal.

Belaboring the point a little but something may have changed since there is a problem.  Does anyone else touch he machine that may have changed something?

May not be the problem with yours today but worth posting for the next people over the years that will search the subject...


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## Cadillac STS (Dec 29, 2020)

r-mm said:


> Another thing to add the previous owner who bought the machine New said he had an issue where the lathe would not exceed 750 RPM. PM sent him a new control board which is presently installed and cured that problem. The fact that I am having this issue makes me wonder if the control board design or manufacture in general was problematic or if anyone else had intermittent issues like either of the above



Go ahead and contact PM and see what they say about the issue.  They have great support and might as well involve the experts.  Since they provided parts before be sure to email the serial number too.


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## r-mm (Dec 29, 2020)

I did call PM today they are barking up a similar tree - asked me to test to see if the tripping happens only if I start the machine with the pot above minimum and to remove the belt to see if the problem goes away.  Will give those steps a shot tonight. 

To paint a picture this is just me in my garage.  No one else uses the machine.  I know the breaker box and garage circuits very intimately, run heaps of 120v, 240v equipment both hard wired and plug loads so I have a high degree of confidence in the wiring.  The machine is new to me with a history of control board issues, to say nothing of the fact I presumed the belt tension and spindle lubrication are okay as-is.


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## Flyinfool (Dec 29, 2020)

I am sure that PM wants you to remove the belt to determine if you have an electrical / motor issue or a mechanical issue. The drive belt is what ties the 2 systems together.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Dec 29, 2020)

r-mm said:


> No GFI on any of the circuits in question.
> 
> I thought start/run caps for ac motors only?


Yeah....AC only, pulling every possibility out...even if it's not possible


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## r-mm (Dec 29, 2020)

This behavior persists with and without the drive belt installed. It also persists whether I turn the machine on with the pot at zero or at any other speed. 

Turning the machine on and off repeatedly produces the trip once every 20 or 30 times it is turned on.


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## r-mm (Dec 29, 2020)

To be more scientific about this I counted starts before trip and got the following results

12
12
14
3
12
9

On the last one I waited at least 30 seconds before starting each time to make sure there wasn’t a heat buildup or somesuch

I think it has Stuxnet.


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## GunsOfNavarone (Dec 29, 2020)

Alright...it worked fine before, this started out of the blue? You checked all electrical connections? Is there any small remote chance a small chip got into motor? Is it possible your breaker is bad? It's quick/easy enough to snap it out of there and pop in a new one. Man, I feel for you. Electrical can be frustrating. Where's that Bill Hudson guy when you need him?


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## GunsOfNavarone (Dec 29, 2020)

This is Grizzly, but I assume they are basically the same. These son of a guns are notoriously problematic with the PM's. I promise to stop spitballin' after this!


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## erikmannie (Dec 29, 2020)

I have a PM-1030V, and I only press Start (actually a green button) when the pot is all the way down.

A (newer) PM-1030V will never start if the pot is turned up at all. 

Would your breaker ever trip if you always had the pot turned all the way down when you press Start?

After owning the machine for a year, I have gotten into the habit of turning the pot all the way down before I press Start.


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## r-mm (Dec 30, 2020)

Thanks for the junction photos - I will have a friend help me position the machine so I can safely check both.  Those at the motor especially I did not know exist. 

Erik - yes please see my post above, I tested both starting with pot down and pot not down with same result.


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## G-ManBart (Dec 30, 2020)

r-mm said:


> Thanks for the junction photos - I will have a friend help me position the machine so I can safely check both.  Those at the motor especially I did not know exist.
> 
> Erik - yes please see my post above, I tested both starting with pot down and pot not down with same result.



I'm not familiar with your machine, but the title caught my eye.  I experienced something like this with a welder recently and posted about it on a welding forum.  A couple of the guys there are welder repair techs, so really experienced electronics pros....they pretty much nailed it.  In my case I was temporarily running a machine on a breaker that was on the small side.  I found that if I flipped the power switch slowly on the machine (either off or on) or sort of fumbled while flipping the switch it would sometimes trip the breaker.  I could run the machine really hard, well over the current draw that the breaker was rated for and never get a trip....it was just when flipping the switch.  I could power the machine on and off ten times and it might trip once...had me really baffled.

The experts said that the short version is that you get an arc across the contact points when the switch moves, and if you do it slowly, the arc happens when the gap is bigger.  That increases the voltage, but the circuit resistance stays the same, so the amperage goes up...it's an amperage spike that was tripping the breaker on a marginal circuit.  There is always an amp spike when powering a circuit of that style anyway, so the extra spike from the fumbled switch movement was all it took.

I only mention that because it might be worth checking the switch and related wiring...something loose could be just enough to cause a problem.

Good luck!


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## r-mm (Dec 30, 2020)

Oops posted to wrong thread.  In process of checking the switches


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## r-mm (Dec 31, 2020)

Thanks for posting this - extremely useful. 

Last night I opened the machine up and removed/retightened every non hard wired connection.  I did not see anything untoward nor any signs of arcing.  I (carefully) turned the machine on and off with the electronics all exposed to view with the lights off so I could look for arcing.  I did this until I got a trip but saw no arcing.  

The on/off switch and various safeties do not carry current, I believe they all supply the coil of the contactor.  I say coil I don't know if thats the right phrase, I am more familiar with relays.    If the arcing you mention is to blame, is it fair to suspect the contactor, which appears to be a Seimans brand?  



G-ManBart said:


> I'm not familiar with your machine, but the title caught my eye.  I experienced something like this with a welder recently and posted about it on a welding forum.  A couple of the guys there are welder repair techs, so really experienced electronics pros....they pretty much nailed it.  In my case I was temporarily running a machine on a breaker that was on the small side.  I found that if I flipped the power switch slowly on the machine (either off or on) or sort of fumbled while flipping the switch it would sometimes trip the breaker.  I could run the machine really hard, well over the current draw that the breaker was rated for and never get a trip....it was just when flipping the switch.  I could power the machine on and off ten times and it might trip once...had me really baffled.
> 
> The experts said that the short version is that you get an arc across the contact points when the switch moves, and if you do it slowly, the arc happens when the gap is bigger.  That increases the voltage, but the circuit resistance stays the same, so the amperage goes up...it's an amperage spike that was tripping the breaker on a marginal circuit.  There is always an amp spike when powering a circuit of that style anyway, so the extra spike from the fumbled switch movement was all it took.
> 
> ...


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## G-ManBart (Dec 31, 2020)

r-mm said:


> Thanks for posting this - extremely useful.
> 
> Last night I opened the machine up and removed/retightened every non hard wired connection.  I did not see anything untoward nor any signs of arcing.  I (carefully) turned the machine on and off with the electronics all exposed to view with the lights off so I could look for arcing.  I did this until I got a trip but saw no arcing.
> 
> The on/off switch and various safeties do not carry current, I believe they all supply the coil of the contactor.  I say coil I don't know if thats the right phrase, I am more familiar with relays.    If the arcing you mention is to blame, is it fair to suspect the contactor, which appears to be a Seimans brand?



I just took a quick look at the wiring diagram for your machine and you may be on to something there.  I guess it's possible there's an arc inside the switch that isn't visible, but it may well be the contactor.  I'm far from an electronics expert, but the similarity to the welder situation only being when powered on/off doesn't seem like a coincidence.  In the welder full current goes through the switch, so it's pretty different....and an expensive switch!


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## Cadillac STS (Dec 31, 2020)

Would it help sort it out by unplugging it, turn the switch on then plug it in so the connection is at the plug and not the switch with the possible unreliable contact?


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## Larry$ (Dec 31, 2020)

As part of a remodel we had a new panel added. The breaker to the range kept tripping (GFI.) The electrician said that was common especially on older ranges. Our range is about 15 years old. He put a new GFI breaker in and it does the same. His recommendation. When no one is looking put a standard (no GFI) breaker in. We've also had the GFI breaker to the frig kick out occasionally. The GFIs are code required. Safety first, spoiled food second!


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## Flyinfool (Dec 31, 2020)

I have never had a problem with GFI. Everything in my shop / basement, kitchen, both baths, outdoors and the aquarium are all GFI. I have never had a single false trip in 35 years, lots of trips for actual problems though.


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## r-mm (Jan 1, 2021)

As a reminder I (poster) am not on a GFI.  I have tried the machine on two breakers and neither are GFI. 

Today I rewired the machine to remove the contactor, e-stop, chuck guard, on/off switch from the circuit.  I provided always hot power to the control board.  This keeps the F/R switch, speed pot and tach in the circuit and operating as intended.  I turned the machine on/off using a power strip.  *No breaker tripping.  *

In order to continue isolating components I would like to have the correct wiring diagram.  The current PDF on PM's site does not match my machine.  Does anyone have an older diagram for this machine, approx 2019?  Current manual is stamped "PM-1030v v5 2020-10"


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## Jim F (Jan 1, 2021)

r-mm said:


> As a reminder I (poster) am not on a GFI.  I have tried the machine on two breakers and neither are GFI.
> 
> Today I rewired the machine to remove the contactor, e-stop, chuck guard, on/off switch from the circuit.  I provided always hot power to the control board.  This keeps the F/R switch, speed pot and tach in the circuit and operating as intended.  I turned the machine on/off using a power strip.  *No breaker tripping.  *
> 
> In order to continue isolating components I would like to have the correct wiring diagram.  The current PDF on PM's site does not match my machine.  Does anyone have an older diagram for this machine, approx 2019?  Current manual is stamped "PM-1030v v5 2020-10"


see if this helps.

PM1030V.PDF


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## r-mm (Jan 1, 2021)

Dang spoke too soon. Problem persists. 
Swapped the control board with a duplicate and same result. 

I connected my clamp meter to the wire at the breaker and see puzzling irregularity at startup. I have a simple clamp meter that doesnt peak hold so take it with a grain.

Pot set to any speed. As a reminder this means if its not at zero the motor doesnt spin. 

I will see anything from a nominal few tenths of an amp all the way to 2.8amps. To best of my observation its totally irregular what I will see on a given start. That is significant because I don’t see much more than 1amp at full speed (no load on motor).


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## DavidR8 (Jan 2, 2021)

Jeepers that’s frustrating. 
I understand that circuit breakers trip under four circumstances. 
Overload 
Short circuit 
Ground fault 
Arc fault 

I think overload can be eliminated from the list. 
I’m going to make the assumption that the circuit is fine when another switchable load of similar amp draw is connected?
And that the machine ran fine on the 15A circuit? (See my edit below) 
If the latter is true, I would swap in a different 20A just to eliminate the breakers from the equation.

Edit: I just re-read your original post and it seems it was tripping the 15A breaker on startup. So that would indicate the breakers are not at fault. 

So that basically leaves short circuit, ground fault and arc fault as possibilities. 
Are you able to check if there’s any current going to ground when it trips?


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## pontiac428 (Jan 2, 2021)

Overload fault on the 15A surge protector, first guess, eliminate it before further testing.


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## Flyinfool (Jan 2, 2021)

A standard circuit breaker should only trip on an overload. A short circuit is a BIG overload.
Ground fault and arc fault are special breakers that you are not using.
Since you tried 2 different circuits, and since other things plugged in do not cause a trip, it is unlikely the house wiring or circuit breakers are at fault,.

OK just thinking out loud here.
Since it is a variable speed DC motor, most likely it is a variable voltage regulator that is powering the motor. Many regulators have large filter capacitors that need to be charged each time the power is turned on. I have seen these cause a problem if they are being charged to fast. It sounds like the requirement that the speed be set to zero is a way of leaving all available power to charge the capacitors and not also have the starting surge of the motor thrown at the power input. I am leaning toward an issue with the power board, but I have no way to walk you thru doing any testing of it to be sure. Can you post some pics of both sides of the speed control board, maybe by looking at it I can get a few things you can check with limited tools available.


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## starr256 (Jan 3, 2021)

I have a PM1030V manufactured in Jan 2018. The shop is on a single 20A circuit,  with  a GFI, everything on it, lights, lots of lights, machines, stereo, DRO.  First I don't need to touch the speed pot to start. Second, I turn it on and off a lot. Third, I do occasionally trip the breaker on startup. It does not matter what the speed setting is. I put it at a overload caused by too much stuff and an in rush on startup. Fourth, the GFI has never tripped, thanks be to &^%, as it is in a terrible spot. Just one dude's experience.


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## ericc (Jan 3, 2021)

It seems that it has not even been established that there is an overload in the form of a very short pulse.  If I were diagnosing this problem without a logging device, I would just get another circuit breaker put it in line.  Actually, I would just use an automotive fuse in a hacked line cord duct taped to a junk 2x4 and watch it like a hawk.  If you are drawing 2.8 amps and blowing a 15 amp breaker without seeing anything on the meter, it is a pretty massive overload like 40 amps. If a little fuse doesn't blow, I would take a good hard look at the breaker.  I have found that a 15 amp breaker can take 25 amps for several (tens) of seconds before it trips.


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## r-mm (Jan 3, 2021)

Thank you everyone who has responded.  

I have done the following: 

-Replaced breaker with new GE 20amp.  Same results. 
-Tested circuit with a 4.5hp shop vac and 1500w heat gun.  Using these devices my clamp meter shows WAY higher readings (~10amp) than I ever see from starting or running the 1hp lathe.  No trips.  
-Swapped another control board that came with the machine.  Same results. 
-Removed power out to motor connection from control board (3 pole green connector on left).  This leaves the big control board caps in the circuit.  I still get trips like this.  

I do not have a way to log momentary inrush current.  I did just purchase a small 1 channel micro scope but do not have a current probe for it as yet. 

Here is a photo of the control board.  I believe it to be similar to: https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005001279538818.html?spm=2114.12057483.0.0.42804074F0RaE0


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## Flyinfool (Jan 3, 2021)

I hate when they flood the board with black epoxy, makes it almost impossible to service.


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## Jim F (Jan 3, 2021)

Flyinfool said:


> I hate when they flood the board with black epoxy, makes it almost impossible to service.


That is the idea........


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## Flyinfool (Jan 3, 2021)

I know it is the idea, but I still hate it.


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## r-mm (Jan 3, 2021)

I cannot possibly see how the issue with anything besides the board. To rule out the power cord at a friends suggestion I wired to the spare board directly with absolutely nothing else connected as you see here. I turned it on and off with a known good surge protector. It still tripped breakers on two separate known good circuits one is 15 amp the other is 20 amp.


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## Jim F (Jan 3, 2021)

Is it possible to see the other side of the board if taken off the heat-sink ?


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## Cadillac STS (Jan 3, 2021)

Inquire if the board is under warrantee?


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## r-mm (Jan 4, 2021)

PM is being helpful and reading this thread, I wanted to do all I could before calling back.  Neither of us want to throw parts at the problem.  

The board is fully potted including the screws that retain it to the heatsink.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 4, 2021)

sounds like a ground fault or internal short within the board. How much is a new one?


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## r-mm (Jan 5, 2021)

PM has new boards ~$130.  I tried swapping a 30amp breaker in.  Yes I realize I need to upgrade the wiring to suit the breaker.  Results in no trips.  I am wondering if...

1. The construction of my particular GE Q-line breakers is sensitive to the type of inrush loads the board produces
2. The NTC resister on the board made me wonder if the fact the machine is inches from the panelboard is working against me?  Hear me out and sorry if this is utterly stupid but if the machine were ~50' away on older wiring wouldn't there be more resistance in the circuit which would have a similar effect to the NTC which is supposed to dampen the inrush when cold then lower resistance when hot?  Yes I realize that is not a 'solution' but I am trying to figure this out.


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## Jim F (Jan 5, 2021)

That is quite possible.
Those darn electrons are sneaky.....


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## tq60 (Jan 5, 2021)

If it trips as in photo then could be dead short or surge.

Locate a wall wart with output in a.c. volts.

Does not matter how many.

Confirm it is good, with clip leads attach voltmeter and power, maybe a fuse less than rating of wall wart.

Now attach to input of unit and see if voltage drops to zero.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## COMachinist (Jan 5, 2021)

Could it be a bad motor? Is it a brushless dc motor? If it has motor brushes I check to make they are good then check the motor To see if it spins free or, if the bearings are dragging or history. The Chinese motors don’t have a good history in my machines, DC or AC. Far as that goes nothing electronic or electrical seems to last long. I have replace all but 1 motor with 3ph and VFDs and it get a Baldor and WJ200 vfd.
CH


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## Flyinfool (Jan 5, 2021)

It sure is leaning to a board problem. If it pops the breaker with nothing but the power cord connected then you have your answer. It looks like there may be a varistor on the board, I have seen them fail with low resistence, Since it is a DC motor, that means there is a bridge rectifer burried in that epoxy mess somewhere, one of the 4 diodes could have failed, or it could be a bad capacitor. If it is still under warranty I would expect a replacement. If it is not under warranty I would start digging thru the epoxy to see what I could find with the expectation that you will need to buy a new board, I just cant spen money on parts without at least trying to fix what I have first.


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## r-mm (Jan 5, 2021)

Flyinfool - all my thoughts exactly.  If I can keep it trip free with my 30amp circuit (re wired for safety) then I believe I will be happy and will move on to next steps with this lathe including adjusting the change gears to reduce noise and clatter.  Oh and also making parts


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## graham-xrf (Jan 5, 2021)

..Edit - error


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## Logan Novice (Jan 12, 2021)

r-mm said:


> Has anybody had a problem with a PM1030V tripping breakers when first turned on?.



I'm late with this input but Id like to add that it may not te load of your PM1030V causing the problem.  An electrician colleague of mine with 45 years of experience in the trade advised me to avoid panel mounted GFI breakers, especiall those rated at 20 amps.  He tells me that he had a 20% failure rate (nuisance tripping) with one brand he formerly used and that his experience with other brands isn't much better; once they trip and reset they tend to nuisance trip more easily.  He now does new circuit installations using only the duplex style of GFI at the service point.


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## KevinM (Jan 12, 2021)

My new (November) PM1022V (same as 1030V minus 8 inches) has recently started tripping the breaker randomly on startup, otherwise it runs fine. The electrical panel is 4 feet away with a 20 amp breaker. There are no other significant loads on the circuit.  It's time for me to call the techs at PM.


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## higgite (Jan 12, 2021)

Logan Novice said:


> .... An electrician colleague of mine with 45 years of experience in the trade advised me to avoid panel mounted GFI breakers, especiall those rated at 20 amps.....


I know this is a long thread to read all of it, but OP has stated multiple times throughout it that the breakers in question are conventional breakers, *not* GFCI breakers.  

Tom


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## r-mm (Jan 13, 2021)

KevinM said:


> My new (November) PM1022V (same as 1030V minus 8 inches) has recently started tripping the breaker randomly on startup, otherwise it runs fine. The electrical panel is 4 feet away with a 20 amp breaker. There are no other significant loads on the circuit.  It's time for me to call the techs at PM.



Very interested to hear this, please post your findings.  I bought mine used, its less than a year old but makes me ineligible for free replacement parts.  However if its determined this is a recall or larger problem it changes my view.

What brand panel and breakers are you using?  Mine tripped both a 'skinny' and regular size single pole GE Q-line 20 amp breaker.  I've used it for a week or so and NO trips on a skinny GE Q-line 30amp breaker.   None of above are GFI or Arc Fault.  All of above are new, genuine GE (presuming home depot doesn't sell knock offs).  I don't say that to imply they are gods gift to manufacturing technology.  This is an 80's GE Load Center panel and I'm guessing the $4.50 breakers are made abroad.


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## Logan Novice (Jan 13, 2021)

KevinM said:


> My new (November) PM1022V (same as 1030V minus 8 inches) has recently started tripping the breaker randomly on startup, otherwise it runs fine. The electrical panel is 4 feet away with a 20 amp breaker. There are no other significant loads on the circuit.  It's time for me to call the techs at PM.


Have you tried powering a shop vac or air compressor on the same outlet?


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## r-mm (Jan 13, 2021)

OP: yes I start-stopped a 4.5hp shopvac a dozen times then ran a 1500w heat gun to stress test outlet.


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## KevinM (Jan 13, 2021)

Logan Novice said:


> Have you tried powering a shop vac or air compressor on the same outlet?


I loaded the circuit running high powered shopvacs,  a Milling machine, 2 heaters, a compressor, a bench grinder with 2 8"x1" wheels, another lathe and the 1022 when working with no problem.   I can remove all loads except the 1022 and it trips the breaker randomly when pushing the power button.  There is nothing wrong with the power, the problem is with the machine.


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## r-mm (Jan 13, 2021)

100% same here.  It either trips INSTANTLY on hitting the power button or not at all.


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## Bill Kahn (Jan 13, 2021)

My PM25MV behaves similarly.  99% of the time turns on fine.  But every now and then trips the 20amp GFCI.  Nothing else on the branch. Nothing else ever trips it.  Once I reset the GFCI, the mill seems to start up fine.  My PM1030V, on the same branch, never trips the breaker.  -Bill


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## Logan Novice (Jan 13, 2021)

For all those affected by this problem, I'd like to hear what PM has to say about it.  Keep us posted please .................


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## r-mm (Jan 14, 2021)

Bill Kahn said:


> My PM25MV behaves similarly.  99% of the time turns on fine.  But every now and then trips the 20amp GFCI.  Nothing else on the branch. Nothing else ever trips it.  Once I reset the GFCI, the mill seems to start up fine.  My PM1030V, on the same branch, never trips the breaker.  -Bill



Does it have a brushless DC motor?  Any chance you have a photo of the control board?


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## Flyinfool (Jan 14, 2021)

r-mm said:


> Does it have a brushless DC motor?  Any chance you have a photo of the control board?


There are photos of the board a couple of pages back. 2 wires to the motor so it is not a brushless DC motor.


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## r-mm (Jan 15, 2021)

You're not talking about my pics are you?  That was two wires in from the panel not out to the motor.


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## Flyinfool (Jan 15, 2021)

So is it the big green connector that goes to the motor?


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## r-mm (Jan 15, 2021)

Yes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Flyinfool (Jan 15, 2021)

3 Motor wires could very well be a brushless DC motor.


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## r-mm (Jan 16, 2021)

There isnt a question, mine is brushless


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## r-mm (Jan 19, 2021)

PM has been back and forth with me and consulted the factory making the boards.  Here is their response today: 

"The factory tells me that in order to provide more torque on startup, they switched to a larger capacitor on the control board and it draws more than 20A on startup. So as long as the lathe does work properly when it does start, there's no issue with the board. Your move to the larger breaker was the correct one."


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## KevinM (Jan 19, 2021)

r-mm said:


> PM has been back and forth with me and consulted the factory making the boards.  Here is their response today:
> 
> "The factory tells me that in order to provide more torque on startup, they switched to a larger capacitor on the control board and it draws more than 20A on startup. So as long as the lathe does work properly when it does start, there's no issue with the board. Your move to the larger breaker was the correct one."


I installed a 30 amp breaker and no problems so far.


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## r-mm (Jan 26, 2021)

Same


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