# Need some advice on SB 13x40



## Syn3rgy (Dec 14, 2013)

I have been looking for a bigger lathe for some time and have come across a SB 13x40 with taper attachment. I am told its from the late 40's and looks to be in excellent shape considering that. The ways look good, with some minor dings up by the head-stock, but no major dents or scrapes. All the gears look in tact with no missing teeth, the gear box operates, I am told the whole machine operates but its currently not in a location where there is no 3 phase power so I cant see it working. It does have minor surface rust in places, but doesn't look like its something that cant be cleaned up. The cross slide operates really smooth, the compound also moves, but looks like the dial is separated from the collar, like a set screw or something is missing. The lead screw looks to be in great shape with no wear that I can detect. I spun the chuck by hand and it feels smooth, some of the wide pulleys behind it have some surface rust, and the belt doesn't look great, a little dried out. The only thing I couldn't move was the wheel on the tail-stock, it was in all the way but I couldn't get it to come out. Other than that it everything I checked seemed to work. The seller said it was found in a dry location in a barn and sat for 40+ years. The only tooling it has is a 3 jaw chuck, a face plate and one of those rocker tool posts. As for believing it works, I do trust the guy as he was recommended by a friend who recently bought a huge drill press and another lathe from him. He is asking $850, what do you guys think?

Thanks for any help.


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## stevecmo (Dec 14, 2013)

I think at $800 it's a steal.  Good luck!


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## 97r82 (Dec 15, 2013)

Syn3rgy said:


> I have been looking for a bigger lathe for some time and have come across a SB 13x40 with taper attachment. I am told its from the late 40's and looks to be in excellent shape considering that. The ways look good, with some minor dings up by the head-stock, but no major dents or scrapes. All the gears look in tact with no missing teeth, the gear box operates, I am told the whole machine operates but its currently not in a location where there is no 3 phase power so I cant see it working. It does have minor surface rust in places, but doesn't look like its something that cant be cleaned up. The cross slide operates really smooth, the compound also moves, but looks like the dial is separated from the collar, like a set screw or something is missing. The lead screw looks to be in great shape with no wear that I can detect. I spun the chuck by hand and it feels smooth, some of the wide pulleys behind it have some surface rust, and the belt doesn't look great, a little dried out. The only thing I couldn't move was the wheel on the tail-stock, it was in all the way but I couldn't get it to come out. Other than that it everything I checked seemed to work. The seller said it was found in a dry location in a barn and sat for 40+ years. The only tooling it has is a 3 jaw chuck, a face plate and one of those rocker tool posts. As for believing it works, I do trust the guy as he was recommended by a friend who recently bought a huge drill press and another lathe from him. He is asking $850, what do you guys think?
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
> ...


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## Syn3rgy (Dec 16, 2013)

Thanks for the help. I don't think I need the taper attachment, but heck its there I figure its added value and maybe one day I will. I will have to buy a VFD at the least because I only have 110 out in my garage and its a 220 3 phase motor I think. I have my eye on one of those multifix tool-posts, if I can find a good price I think I will get that as well.


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## rafe (Dec 16, 2013)

That is an awesome deal ....There should be a set screw on the dial ....what you are seeing may indicate wear on the screw and nut ....even if it needs to be repaired/replaced it is a great deal and easy, but might just indicate wear. You can sort out the bugs once you get it home....post some photos
PS I have a lantern tool post and it works fine ...until I come across a qctp it gets the job done


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## Syn3rgy (Dec 16, 2013)

I will post pics for sure, before and after the cleanup, hoping to pick it up in the next few days ).


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## Syn3rgy (Dec 19, 2013)

Picked up the lathe today... Where to start, that's the next question.

Some things I have noticed now that I can really inspect it:



There is a ton of backlash in the cross slide and the compound
Tugging on the saddle there's lots of play up and down
Some surface rust on the handles and pulleys
Most all the oil caps and holes that I see have oil in them
The inner ways are dinged up pretty bad by the chuck, but the outer ways seem pretty good
Compound rest t-slot is chunked up a bit
Belt seems pretty dried out, pretty sure it wont last long if at all
All the gears look in excellent shape, used inspection mirror on gear box and all those gears also look like they are in good shape

I want to get this lathe in good working condition, I don't care all that much about how it looks, in fact I sort of like its worn look. What would you guys recommend I do first?


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## sniggler (Dec 20, 2013)

Hey,
Looks like a nice machine. Get the right spindle oil and make should everything is all properly lubed up before you run it. Run it slowly first. 

Figure out if the motor can be wired to run on single phase. Use non-abrasive cleaning methods to get it as clean as possible. Resist the temptation to rip it all down. 

I agree the patina on old machines is cool. This is a matter of taste and I also love to see the old machines that have been restored as well.

Best of luck

Bob


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## fastback (Dec 20, 2013)

I think you got yourself a nice lathe.  It should clean up real nice.  I believe you can get replacement cross feed nuts from Tools4Cheap.  I think they go for around $35.00.  Of course you can make your own if your up to it. Just the taper attachment is worth $500.00.   Good luck on the new (to you) lathe.

Paul


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## GK1918 (Dec 20, 2013)

Paul just said it all,  Also to add, take a close look at your cross feed dial, and by hand move the play back and forth.  I bet you will
see a gap (at the grad. dial area)  sometimes the gap is big time.  Most blame this play on the nut.  Come to find out the "snout"
that holds the dial and feed knob shank/ wears too, adding to the mix of play.  Can be corrected with washers 'shims'.  Example; I back off
the cross slide I see a 1/4" gap so I unloosen the dial screw pry back against the ball handle with screw driver and tighten the dial. Now
there is no movement.  I know, I've been living with this being lazy.  I am not talking about backlash. I am talking about the leed screw
for the cross slide.  Its the screw end play which is controled at this snout.  disregard terminolgy I call it a snout nut.
Betcha 5 bucks thats most of your lost motion problem not back lash, which is always there, its the screw end play.. I know I got two sb's
and both have this problem.  For some reason on these lathes, the compound is good, its always the cross slide.  Some where on the net
and I cant find it, there was an article to correct this.  My quick fix is cutting washers from the common plastic milk containers, using
hole punch and add these before and after this snout nut,  until the end play is eliminated.  

"quote from Hugo Young owner of the Flxible Co.from 1946 bus news"   a common problem always has a simple solution  ya just gotta find it.
If you can and you think you can not;  you are right Henry Ford 1920s quote:


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## Syn3rgy (Dec 21, 2013)

Thanks for all the advice, I am going to go get some evaporust today and start getting it cleaned up. Do I need to worry about all the felts at this point? 

I bought a Teco\Westinghouse VFD that I will get hooked up today, its rated for the 1 HP that the motor is, so I think I should be ok with that.

I got some spindle oil from a friend that has a machine shop, do I need to try and flush whats in there now?


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## Chuck K (Dec 21, 2013)

Nice find...and right in my neighborhood...I must have been snoozing. lol.  I would do like others have said, clean and lubricate everything before powering it up. Also be sure to check all of the wiring before putting any power to it.  If it were mine I would remove the crosslide and apron to clean, lubricate, and adjust everything before I used it.  As far as flushing the oil in the spindle bearings...you would have to disassemble it to do that.  That would be the right way to do it, but if it wasn't dry when you got it, maybe it has been maintained.  It looks like it's been taken care of.  Should be a real nice lathe.

Chuck


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## rafe (Dec 22, 2013)

I would advise making sure the the small passage (air vents) above the head stock oil cups are not painted closed and I would also remove the allen bolts above and below the oil cup and drain the old oil out to see it's condition, on the bottom holes I used a drill bit (shank end ) smaller than the hole dia. and inserted it slowly and then pulled it out ...using it like a plunger....some rather nasty gunk came out ....you might also use a turkey baster to suck it out. If you are not going to take it apart and check everything right away I would over lubricate it until you do....That's what I have been doing and cleaning out a section at a time...lubricate the motor too, mine was running hot until I did ...I would (I did) get the felts and a rebuild book off of e-bay, not cheap but worth every cent and much more.putting the felts on the carridge is easy and having the rest there is a good idea too
Check that your headstock bearings are not getting hot ....feel above them from time to time until you get comfortable....It looks like it has a lot of life left in it....They were made to run so run it and maintain it I have a 14 1/2 x 6 from the same era and I'd rather have that in my garage then a Harley......So I built a shed for the Harley


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## Syn3rgy (Dec 22, 2013)

Thanks for all the input. I have started working on stuff and had a nice surprise and a few questions. The little squeeze lever that by the gear box that allows of the banjo to move was busted off. Does anyone know how the pin retaining it comes out, is it just pressed in there (see picture)? While I was contemplating what to do about that I was taking off the drive plate that was on the spindle and went to knock out the center someone had installed. I noticed that the rod I put through the back of the spindle didn't seem to go far enough in so I pointed a flashlight in there and noticed something was shoved in there. I had a smaller diameter rod that was able to get past the obstruction and knock out the center and the morse sleeve they had in there. When those were out I pushed the obstruction out of the spindle from front to back and low and behold, it was the broken part of that squeeze lever. I guess the guy wasn't joking when he said the lathe was not missing anything :lmao:. It looks like its brass and I am assuming the correct repair would be brazing, though I am not sure if that would be strong enough given the place it broke at.

The other question I had is how to those little oil cap covers\tubes come off, do they just pull out? There are some smashed up ones that will need replacing. Anyone know what they are actually called and possible a source?

As for the oil, I was thinking out sucking all the old oil out, in the spindle and the motor. I figured I could use a small hose attachment on the shop vac and suck it out then just squeeze as much oil as I could in there, run it a bit and suck it out again. Better than trying to take it all apart, Mr Pete on youtube mentions in some video that's a real PITA to do and get back together right.

As for my backlash issues, either the screw and nuts have been replaced on this machine, or indeed this lathe just sat unused. I took the compound apart and when I thread the nut onto the screw it barely rocks. The screw it self looks to be in great sharp once I cleaned all the gunk and chips out of it.


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## Chuck K (Dec 22, 2013)

If you look for "oilers" on the macmaster carr site I think you will find what you need.  The oilers are either threaded or lightly pressed in place.  I'm not sure but would suspect a knurled pin holding the banjo lever together. South bend used a lot of taper pins but that doesn't seem like a place one would have been used. It's nice finding the rest of the handle.  If you can't repair it or find a replacement at least you have a pattern to copy.

Chuck


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## Timehunter (Dec 29, 2013)

From the pictures it looks like you are missing the part that clamps to your ways to hold the taper attachment rod on the right.
Mine was missing one also, I had to make one.
Might have the pictures of fabrication if needed.
I also made a bracket for my "trav a dial", to keep it in place along with the thread dial.
Got tired of having to change them out........


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## Syn3rgy (Dec 30, 2013)

Timehunter said:


> From the pictures it looks like you are missing the part that clamps to your ways to hold the taper attachment rod on the right.
> Mine was missing one also, I had to make one.
> Might have the pictures of fabrication if needed.
> I also made a bracket for my "trav a dial", to keep it in place along with the thread dial.
> Got tired of having to change them out........



You mean this piece? I had wondered what it was until I saw pictures in the how to run a lathe book...





I don't have a "trav a dial", does that serve the same function as a mag base indicator up against the saddle?


I ended up doing the car belt mod so I could get the old #9 running this weekend, only to find the top lever on the gear box was frozen. I tried some penetrating oil, but couldn't get it to move. I ended up taking off the whole gearbox and lead screw, cleaning it all up, and then soaking the gear box half at a time in evapo-rust. I cant speak highly enough about that stuff, absolutely amazing and easy to use. After an overnight soak, I was able to gently tap the sliding gear with a screw driver and hammer and managed to get it to move. I then sprayed it down with some PB Blaster, let it sit for a bit and that's all it took. I cleaned everything out again and pre-lubed it all up with the correct gear oil and put it back on the machine. I pumped oil in all the oilers until it came out of the various shafts, holes etc and now it works great. 

While I was waiting for the soak I "borrowed" some red and black nail polish from the wife and fixed up the south bend name on the door and the numbers and lines on the threading dial.

Gearbox before & after


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## sniggler (Dec 30, 2013)

Nice job on the quick change gear box looks like a winner.


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## Syn3rgy (Jan 18, 2014)

*Re: Need some advice on SB 13x40 (Reverse Lever Repaired)*

Managed to get the reverse level sorted out. I was just going to make something new, but I felt it just wouldn't look right. So I decided to grind the break flat, drill and tap for a 8/32 set screw and then silver solder it together. Its a bit shorter than the original but still clears the cover and works great. I think with the screw in there I shouldn't have to worry about it ever splitting apart.


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## Timehunter (Jan 19, 2014)

I like it! Nice job!
That's the way to "get-er done"!


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## woodtickgreg (Jan 19, 2014)

Nice fix on the lever. The only way I would ever get rid of my 10L would be if I found a nice 13 to restore. If that 13 was mine I would be doing a full restore on it! But that's just me, LOL. I will say this after a full restore on one of these they are a joy to use, I don't know what it is about these old machines, they just seem to get into my soul and stir things.


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## Thoro (Jan 19, 2014)

Your fix turned out nicely.  You went a step further than I did.  I just recently broke and subsequently fixed my handle too, and just brazed it.


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