# Hi-end Benchtop Lathes?



## Ratch

Hi all.

Wanting to purchase a good quality lathe (and milling machine) that must offer the following:

Fit on benchtop.
Minimum 500mm between centres.
Thread cutting gearbox.
Require no ‘fixing’ from new to start using (quality).

There seems to be a massive gap between cheap Chinese stuff and hi-end / used industrial equipment. I’m looking for a level above hobby stuff.

I’m in England / Europe. The only brands I can identify that offer the above have all had worrying reviews in terms of quality.

SIEG
WARCO
OPTIMUM

Any advice (other than buy a big used professional machine) appreciated.


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## tazzat

.


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## Cadillac STS

Wabeco D6000 and Wabeco milling machines.  Maybe the D6000 with the milling machine attachment?


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## redgrouse

Ratch, are you looking for an imperial or metric machine ? Much of the used industrial machinery available will be imperial, not all but a lot will be, also can you accommodate a larger machine than you mentioned ? Your budget will also have a bearing on what you buy!
Boxford machines are well worth considering if you search for the right one, in the later and larger models you will be able to find metric machines.
A bit more info on what you want or need , what you intend to make or do will assist with advice given
John


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## Ratch

Thanks for your replies.

It should be metric. It must fit on my tool benchtop. Willing to pay more for a quality machine.

Accessories like a fixed steady etc will be needed. Mainly want to make things like axles and custom bolts and rods / linkages etc - precision is important but not to crazy levels. Don’t want to mess with changing gears and belts for thread cutting hence a gearbox.


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## Ratch

Cadillac STS said:


> Wabeco D6000 and Wabeco milling machines.



These do look great even at 3 x price of the Chinese stuff. It’s a bit much for a beginner but in my experience, best to just buy right the first time - I’m planning to really get into this and hopefully for a long time.


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## redgrouse

Being in the U.K. it would be worth having a look on this site U.K. Model Engineering site however I feel you may have to go down the imported route to find a small metric machine with the screw cutting gearbox ? For a quality machine consider Myford but it comes in imperial only for direct screw cutting with the gearbox, the later big bore version would possibly be best but more expensive. 
Most of the others from industry or larger top end hobby machines are cabinet mounted though in some cases you could possibly dispense with the cabinet. A table top machine does limit your choices.
If you purchase imported Far East machines from a reliable supplier with a good reputation for backup you should be ok, the quality of these has improved dramatically over the last 20 years and whilst they may not be as good as a European made machine a great many people use them and turn out some excellent work.


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## redgrouse

Ratch said:


> These do look great even at 3 x price of the Chinese stuff. It’s a bit much for a beginner but in my experience, best to just buy right the first time - I’m planning to really get into this and hopefully for a long time.


I am not sure these machines have a direct drive screw cutting gearbox ? Look on Pro-Machines web site in the U.K. and the manual/spec sheet — seems you have to change toothed belts etc ??


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## matthewsx

Hello and welcome to the forum.

If you are looking for a machine that will be "quality" right from the start I would definitely suggest buying from a fellow hobbyist. Ideally you can find someone upgrading, or moving out of the hobby due to age who will be willing to assist by demonstrating the machine before you buy it and helping you get it set-up in your shop.

Either new or used will require some degree of set-up and if you can find an experienced person to help you will be miles ahead. Find out if there is a local hobby group that meets nearby, or if any vocational schools offer training that looks good to you. This forum is a great resource but nothing beats an experienced set of eyes and hands for setting you on the correct path.

Cheers,

John


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## Ratch

redgrouse said:


> I am not sure these machines have a direct drive screw cutting gearbox ? Look on Pro-Machines web site in the U.K. and the manual/spec sheet — seems you have to change toothed belts etc ??



Yeh just checked - even their top model needs manual changing. Possibly willing to put up with that.

The OPTIMUM brand is far eastern made with some German finishing and as you say, I have seen amazing work done on Chinese stuff - I just wont know what to look for and don't want to spend time fixing things like casting sand in the gearboxes (!) and uneven bed ways (!!), stripped threads and misaligned locating dowels at assembly.


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## Ratch

This one looks good (except for the lack of gearbox):






						OPTIturn TU 2506 (230 V) Lathe
					

OPTIturn TU 2506 (230 V) - Article-No.: 3425001 - Lathe - Precisely manufacturedPowerful, maintenance-free engineHardened and ground Z-axis...




					www.stuermer-machines.com
				




Has chunky MT4 / 124mm mount and chuck and their description centres around a lot of precision figures. 

Any have any experience with this brand?


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## matthewsx

No experience with this brand but it looks like a standard Chinese built bench lathe. If you are looking for high quality you really should be searching for Taiwan built equipment, if purchasing Chinese I would shop by price and expect to do quite a bit of work to make it accurate. There is an "Asian machines" section on here that should apply to almost anything you're looking at new online. Look at Precision Matthews website (they're a forum sponsor). They import machines from China and Taiwan and offer good customer service here in the US. If I were buying new, and wanted support, I would look for someone like them rather than going on price alone but I would still expect to tear the machine down to at least clean it before putting it into service.

Please know that your question has been asked many, many times on this and other forums and unfortunately the answer almost always is either expect to rebuild it from new, or buy quality used. There is a member @DavidR8 in Victoria BC who has recently been through exactly this exercise. You may find it helpful to read through his posts to get a feel for where you're likely to end up. Spoiler alert, he recently bought an older model lathe after initially getting a Chinese built mini lathe.

From what I've read the Myford lathes are what I would be looking for if I lived in the UK and needed a quality benchtop machine, either that or an Enco unit, some of which come with built in milling capability. Quality machine tools are built to last quite a long time and this is one area where you really do get more for your money with a used machine than something new unless you are willing to spend lots of money.

The two manufacturers I mentioned are known quantities with a broad following ranging from hobbyists to professionals. If you haven't found it yet http://www.lathes.co.uk/ is the master resource for machine tool information. They have a classified section that will give you an idea of what machines command what prices, and might even have something you'll be interested in close to where you live.

General advice:

Buy quality, you won't be sorry in the long run.
Get as much tooling included, it's very expensive and you'll need it to do anything.
Take you time and know what your requirements are before buying anything.
Ask questions, lots of them. This place is great for that  
Read about other's experiences, it's free

This hobby is very exciting and when you first start out it's tempting to try and build your shop all at once. Reality is most people gain knowledge as they go and many would have done things quite differently if they had the knowledge they have now when they started out. Don't be one who buys the wrong tool and quits from frustration, you have come to the right place for help.

Cheers,

John


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## ThinWoodsman

matthewsx said:


> Please know that your question has been asked many, many times on this and other forums and unfortunately the answer almost always is either expect to rebuild it from new, or buy quality used. There is a member @DavidR8 in Victoria BC who has recently been through exactly this exercise.



Agreed. Just looking around at the 7"-9" swing models out there, the just about all of the new stuff (barring the CNC machining monstrosities) seems to be dressed-up versions of the same design as the Asian imports. The industry is becoming dangerously inbred.

The upshot: resign yourself to becoming a mechanic, and keep an eye out for a decent used machine. If the need is pressing, buy one of the new ones from a respected manufacturer, with an eye towards selling the thing (for 1/3 the buying price no doubt) once a suitable used one has been located.


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## markba633csi

Myford
or Mychevy


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## JimDawson

You might look at the EMCO product line, made in Austria I think.






						emco-world.us -&nbspemco world Resources and Information.
					

emco-world.us is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, emco-world.us has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!



					www.emco-world.us


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## mksj

Hard to recommend a specific lathe as the availability in the US is different. Overall it would seem that most of the new lathes you would be looking at would be Chinese mainland manufacturer. I first would outline the specifications that you would want and the limitations as to weight and size. I would look for a D1-4 spindle mount, power feed/cross feed, full gearbox (few change gears), etc. Something along the lines of the Waco GH1322/1330. I would go with the 3 phase version (which cost less) and add a VFD. You will see a better surface finish and motor longevity.





						Warco GH1322 Gear Head Metal Working Engineering Lathe
					

4009A - MORE STOCK FEB 2023 4009ADRO - MORE STOCK APRIL/MAY 2023 A firm favourite with educational facilities and industry, the GH1322 offers true industrial level specification with a relatively small footprint. Offered in single or three phase versions, these lathes are truly built to last.




					www.warco.co.uk
				




Alternatively look for a Taiwanese made machine similar to what we have in the US as the PM-1236T also per Jim's recommendation, Emco models.
https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1236t/

I had an Optima BF-30 mill, and the quality was not there, and I eventually sold it. Sieg is OK, but feature wise on the SC8, SC10 and quality is just OK but not what I would consider high quality.


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## matthewsx

JimDawson said:


> You might look at the EMCO product line, made in Austria I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emco-world.us -&nbspemco world Resources and Information.
> 
> 
> emco-world.us is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, emco-world.us has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!
> 
> 
> 
> www.emco-world.us


Yes, Emco. Not Enco, but if you can get an older Taiwan made Enco they’re not too bad either


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## redgrouse

A bit late got waylaid about an hour ago !
Ratch, since you are in London I would not contemplate buying an Asian from the continent, any problems would be more difficult to solve, a different story if you were purchasing a European made machine.
Matthewsx is spot on with his comments particularly buying quality, its oft been said bye cheap bye twice !
I notice Jim has been me to it but Emco is excellent, among other machines I have an Emco Super 11 -- the CD came later but essentially the same machine, if you can find a used one in good condition it would be a good choice but not really a bench machine. No experience of them but Warco seem to be top of the tree for imported machines, also Axminster tools do a range of imported lathes and do some training days as do Warco.


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## middle.road

But once - cry once. or so it's said. (If only the budget would allow for that line of thought...)

There's a guy on the continent that is rebuilding a handful Myfords and those look capable to me. (Correct me if I'm wrong with that thought guys.)
I'm trying to find the vids that I watched a while back. The only experience I have with Myfords is from watching videos but from what I've seen some creators produced on them I'm thinking that might be viable.

And as Jim & RedGrouse mention, Emco produces a quality product and I personally would pursue those if the budget allows.
I've personally seen them in use in model shops and tools rooms over the years, and when they do show up in an auction over here they're popular.
I've got an old Emco ~3" mill vise in my collection that (I believe) is very well made. Never been used as far as I can tell - no dingles or dings anywhere on it.
Maximat might just be the way to go.


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## pontiac428

After reading through, I think the Emco Maximat is ideal.  Metric, Austrian build quality, available used in Europe for reasonable cost (I've looked at a few).  Hardinge may be another possibility, but there seems to be a lot of rabbitholes to fall into there.  Optimum and Bernardo do nice Asian imports, but IMHO you can't paint over offshore iron and call it something different.


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## Ratch

Thanks all.

Some quick googling shows Wabeco and Emco as front runners.

Food for thought.


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## DavidR8

Hi @Ratch If you are looking for quality I wouldn't steer toward a mini lathe. 
An Emco Maximat (if you can find one) would be an excellent choice. 
If I had not bought the South Bend I had a line on an Maximat as a second runner up.


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## 4ssss

I second Myford


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## redgrouse

Ratch, I have both Myford S7 and Maximat 11 both purchased new used petty much on a daily basis from 1977 [myford] & around 1982/4? for the Emco but very accurate, both imperial -- you will find Emco don't bring their real worth in the UK, compare prices in Europe with those in the UK. The only "problem" with the myford is the small spindle bore unless you go for a Big Bore machine at a considerably higher price, also for you the gearbox is imperial, you can cut metric as with any imperial lathe but its not very convenient.
So this leaves you with the Emco, bide your time and you will find a good one in full metric spec. you need to search all the usual sites and keep an eye on google search. However since you are willing to look at this type and size of machine I would also consider Boxford, you will get a lot for your money and quality as well. As a matter of interest I also have a Boxford 11-30 metric machine.


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## DLF

Ratch said:


> Hi all.
> 
> Wanting to purchase a good quality lathe (and milling machine) that must offer the following:
> 
> Fit on benchtop.
> Minimum 500mm between centres.
> Thread cutting gearbox.
> Require no ‘fixing’ from new to start using (quality).
> 
> There seems to be a massive gap between cheap Chinese stuff and hi-end / used industrial equipment. I’m looking for a level above hobby stuff.
> 
> I’m in England / Europe. The only brands I can identify that offer the above have all had worrying reviews in terms of quality.
> 
> SIEG
> WARCO
> OPTIMUM
> 
> Any advice (other than buy a big used professional machine) appreciated.



You can also consider PAULIMOT

www.paulimot.de

I also plan to buy a lathe from them. I was considering Optimum or Bernardo, but price-wise Paulimot is better and I read good reviews for their machines.

So far I only bought tooling from them and it was a pleasure dealing with them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## matthewsx

DLF said:


> You can also consider PAULIMOT
> 
> www.paulimot.de
> 
> I also plan to buy a lathe from them. I was considering Optimum or Bernardo, but price-wise Paulimot is better and I read good reviews for their machines.
> 
> So far I only bought tooling from them and it was a pleasure dealing with them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



They look like the standard Chinese offerings. One place to compare is Alibaba






						Metal Lathe China Trade,Buy China Direct From Metal Lathe Factories at Alibaba.com
					

Buy Metal Lathe China Direct From Metal Lathe Factories at Alibaba.com. Help Global Buyers Source China Easily.




					www.alibaba.com
				




You'll see everything that is available to importers and who the suppliers are. There are many companies that offer these products and those that work directly with good manufacturers can provide slightly better quality stuff. But, if you read through the experiences of forum members none are absolutely turn-key. 

Read and learn....

John


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## DavidR8

For what it's worth, I had a dispute with the seller of my 7x14 lathe. It was advertised as having a brushless motor, a feature I was looking for.
When it arrived I discovered that it had a brushed motor and so I demanded a partial refund and that the seller change the listing.

I got the refund and the seller changed the listing.

In fact, *every* listing I could find on EBay for a similar 7x14 lathe changed. This led me to believe that all of the blue and white, 7x14 lathes are the same unit, sold by the same people regardless of who the seller is.


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## DLF

matthewsx said:


> They look like the standard Chinese offerings. One place to compare is Alibaba
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Metal Lathe China Trade,Buy China Direct From Metal Lathe Factories at Alibaba.com
> 
> 
> Buy Metal Lathe China Direct From Metal Lathe Factories at Alibaba.com. Help Global Buyers Source China Easily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.alibaba.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll see everything that is available to importers and who the suppliers are. There are many companies that offer these products and those that work directly with good manufacturers can provide slightly better quality stuff. But, if you read through the experiences of forum members none are absolutely turn-key.
> 
> Read and learn....
> 
> John



Hello John,

Off-course all cheap machines are china or taiwan.

IMHO one can not compare alibaba/aliexpress sellers to a reputable european seller which actually is importing machines under own brand (similar to Precision Mathews in the USA).

I have no relationship with paulimot. But I do know they check all their machines at the Neu Ulm shop and they offer quality products.

And warranty is virtually not existent when you buy from china directly.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## matthewsx

DLF said:


> Hello John,
> 
> Off-course all cheap machines are china or taiwan.
> 
> IMHO one can not compare alibaba/aliexpress sellers to a reputable european seller which actually is importing machines under own brand (similar to Precision Mathews in the USA).
> 
> I have no relationship with paulimot. But I do know they check all their machines at the Neu Ulm shop and they offer quality products.
> 
> And warranty is virtually not existent when you buy from china directly.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m not disputing your experience with this seller. Just pointing out the similarity of product and one source to understand marketing/supply chain dynamics.
The more information we have the better decisions we can make.

Also, a tool can check out fine and be within manufacturer specs and still be unsuitable. It all depends on your expectation of use. I only have my own experience and the experiences others have related to go on.

The OP expressed a desire to not have to fix anything after purchase. That’s why I suggested buying used from someone willing to help with setup. This is only possible new with professional quality machines AFAIK. 

New Chinese hobby grade machines do require attention from my experience and all reports I’ve read. I just want people coming into the hobby to have the best experience possible and more information is the best way to make that happen.

Cheers,


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## Ratch

Bit more research and the Emco Maximat Super 11 seems perfect. Benchable (just) with german quality, 600mm CtoC, metric and a gearbox! Seems to be going from £3K-5K used which is just about doable.


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## middle.road

Found it!
Here's the gent that's redoing a handful of Myfords. He has a pretty decent channel. He's got vids on Schaublin and Maximat also.













						Jan Sverre Haugjord
					






					www.youtube.com


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