# Newbie in need of milling vise advice



## Investigator (Jul 5, 2017)

I need to tool up, starting with a vise.  This will be for my RF30 clone/Grizzly 3358 round column mill/drill.  I don't know where to start.....reading here and other places some folks say Kurt or nothing and some say Shars or LMS are just fine.  So many questions....

First, which size?  I think I understand that 6" is too large for my machine.  But 4" or 5" would be ok.  Which would be better?
Second, swivel base or no?  Have it 'just in case?'

What will I be making?  I don't know.  Gunsmithing to start.  I can see cutting dovetails for sights in pistol slides for sure.  Making muzzle brakes.  Not sure what else.  One day I would like to build a single shot rifle from scratch.

So please, any and all advice is welcome.


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## T Bredehoft (Jul 5, 2017)

A four inch vice is about right for  your mill. Matt at Precision Machinery, has Taiwanese made 4" vices for under $100, which are adequate, but not equal to Kurt vises. I obtained one from him when I got my PM25, as I said, it's not perfect but adequate.


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## mikey (Jul 5, 2017)

I have an RF-31 and a Kurt 4" vise that fits perfectly. If I had not bought a Kurt, I would have considered a Glacern or just used my 4" screwless vise.


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## hman (Jul 6, 2017)

+1 to the above.  

As for the swivel base, I can't recall ever needing one myself.  There've been several threads here that discussed them.  The general consensus is that it's usually a dust collector.  Yes, there might be that one rare case when you could really use one.  But there _are_ always alternative setups.


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## Investigator (Jul 6, 2017)

T Bredehoft said:


> A four inch vice is about right for  your mill. Matt at Precision Machinery, has Taiwanese made 4" vices for under $100, which are adequate, but not equal to Kurt vises. I obtained one from him when I got my PM25, as I said, it's not perfect but adequate.



I looked at the photos of the vice from Matt.  It looks kinda sloppy.  Looking at the fit of the square key in the non-moving jaw it doesnt fit perfectly.  The bolt slots look cast in not milled.  Makes me wonder how accurate it is.

Is this typical of all import vises?


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## westsailpat (Jul 6, 2017)

Hi Investigator , your project list sounds fun . Although I never considered myself a gunsmith , back in the early 90s' I had a customer that sold semi custom hunting rifles . The main part I made for them was a muzzle brake , when I first started with them I drilled the radial holes with a spindex  . That was a cheap investment to get started , later I bought a Yausa 5C indexer . I was almost ready to buy  a Haas NC indexer , good thing I didn't because they dumped me .


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## mikey (Jul 6, 2017)

Consider this: the VAST majority of the work you do on the mill will be clamped in a vise so buy one that will be square and accurate to begin with. Quality is going to cost you but at least you won't be milling or scraping it so it will work for you.

Kurt vises have a lifetime warranty and are more than accurate enough for most jobs. A good screwless vise, if it meets the published specs, can be even more accurate, cheaper and may resist flex even better than a standard milling vise.

In the US, Kurt is almost a standard. Glacern/GMT also has a good rep, although they are imports. Yuasa also makes some good machine vises but new ones are dear. If you plan to choose a vise purely on cost, good luck.


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## talvare (Jul 6, 2017)

I agree with Mikey, buy a quality vise. You won't have to use as much profanity during your set-ups. Also, I don't have a swivel base on my Kurt vise and have never wished that I did. There are other more accurate and rigid ways to set your work at angles than using a swivel base. Just my two cents.

Ted


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## ezduzit (Jul 6, 2017)

Buy quality. An alternative to Kurt is the Toolmex. But I don't see one smaller than 6".


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## Hozzie (Jul 6, 2017)

I am happy with my Glacern.  Recommend it without pause.


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## coherent (Jul 6, 2017)

+1 more for Glacern. I have the 5" and it's a great vice.


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## ddickey (Jul 6, 2017)

When I was in your shoes a while back I asked the same question.
Following advice from some here I went with a 4" Kurt.
I can't speak for the other brands but I'm very happy I went with a Kurt.


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## carlquib (Jul 7, 2017)

I have a bunch of different vices, er vises. They run the range from 1" tool makers vises to a 24" twin screw shaper vise. The Kurt vises are very nice, no question about it, but I have several cheaper versions of the Kurt that are almost as good and at less than 1/3 the cost. I wouldn't recommend a screwless vise as the only vise for your mill, you just can't put the same amount of gronk on a part for heavy stock removal. The Shars vises are a nice vise and I like them but the bodies aren't very hard so in use you have to be very careful not to ding them up and if you do get the occasional ding stone it to keep the accuracy. I like having the swivel base but I concur with the others, it uses up z and is only needed occasionally. My advice would be to use your budget as your guide. If you can afford the Kurt, buy it, if not buy the best your budget allows. I have several of the vises that enco used to sell and for the money they were great when I was starting out. Shars or glacern are probably some of the best bang for the buck that I have experience with now. You can put a six inch vise on your mill but it will be a little big and don't forget heavy. I think my six inch vises weigh about 80 pounds. Enough rambling for now if you have more questions ask away. 

Hello, my name is Brian and I'm a toolaholic.


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