# BP Quill getting tight



## geckocycles

The quill is getting tight on my BP J head Mil
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. 

Well oiled and little used. Is there anything I can do. It is tightest at the top of the travel. It used to be so smooth with great feel. THen all in one day it started to tighten up.


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## JimDawson

I have had this happen before.  Check for some galling where the clamp contacts quill. Make sure the clamp is releasing correctly, remove the clamp system and make sure the plungers are free in the bore.  The other thing I have seen is some galling on the nut on the bottom of the quill.  Another possibility is that it may be dry in some spots, try a light oil and work the quill up and down and see if it frees up.

You may have to pull the quill out and inspect the entire quill and bore.  It's not much of a job to pull the quill, about 15 minutes.


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## Holescreek

I have a similar issue with one of my BPMs but know what the problem is with mine, it's the quill return spring. I've messed with it a couple of times but the problem comes back. I haven't tried replacing it, just "repairing" it. In my case the tab was broken off of the end of the spring so I shortened it enough to make a new tab.


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## geckocycles

THX
THis gives me some place to start. I need to get a manual of some kind.


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## Holescreek

There are several sites that have the manuals in pdf format for free, google it.  Does your return spring work at all?


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## OldMachinist

Very common problem on a Bridgeport, the nuts for swiveling the head are only supposed to be torqued to 25 ft lbs first and then 50 ft lbs. using a diagonal pattern. Over torqueing will distort the casting and cause the quill to be tight.


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## RandyM

geckocycles said:


> THX
> THis gives me some place to start. I need to get a manual of some kind.





Holescreek said:


> There are several sites that have the manuals in pdf format for free, google it.  Does your return spring work at all?



Manuals are in the downloads section of this site.


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## geckocycles

THX once again. I am not sure about the return spring as it is probably too tight to be effective. I should have some time today to look at it closer.


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## sanddan

OldMachinist said:


> Very common problem on a Bridgeport, the nuts for swiveling the head are only supposed to be torqued to 25 ft lbs first and then 50 ft lbs. using a diagonal pattern. Over torqueing will distort the casting and cause the quill to be tight.



I know this is a old post but I have this same problem on a jet BP clone. If the nuts are too tight will just loosening them up and re-torqueing in the correct fashion fix this?

I'm going to try adjusting the quill spring also. It does work somewhat but only when the quill is fully extended. It slows to a stop about half way back up due to the tightness/drag on the quill.


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## JimDawson

You could try loosening and retorquing the swivel lock bolts, it might work.  Check the quill travel with the bolts loose.  

I have been through this a few times, these are the problems that I have found.

Don't try to adjust the quill return spring until you get the stiff quill issue fixed.  You will snap the end off of of the spring if you get it too tight.  It should be adjusted to just barely return the quill to the top when everything is free.

Check your quill lock, make sure the clamps are free to move in the bore.  With the quill extended, look for gauling in the area the the clamps contact the quill.  Then oil the he!! out of the quill with light oil, Marvel Mystery Oil or sewing machine oil works well for this.  If that frees it up then oil with something heavier.  To get a lot of oil in there, you can pull the power down feed engage lever out of the head.  Just two socket head cap screws to remove and it pulls out.  Much faster than oiling by the oil cup on the right rear.  The oil goes to the  same place.

Also check that the nut on the bottom of the quill does not have a burr on it.  That can score the bore a bit, right at the bottom and cause tightness.  If all else fails, then drop the quill out and inspect it and the bore for burrs.

Good luck!


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## sanddan

JimDawson said:


> You could try loosening and retorquing the swivel lock bolts, it might work.  Check the quill travel with the bolts loose.
> 
> I have been through this a few times, these are the problems that I have found.
> 
> Don't try to adjust the quill return spring until you get the stiff quill issue fixed.  You will snap the end off of of the spring if you get it too tight.  It should be adjusted to just barely return the quill to the top when everything is free.
> 
> Check your quill lock, make sure the clamps are free to move in the bore.  With the quill extended, look for gauling in the area the the clamps contact the quill.  Then oil the he!! out of the quill with light oil, Marvel Mystery Oil or sewing machine oil works well for this.  If that frees it up then oil with something heavier.  To get a lot of oil in there, you can pull the power down feed engage lever out of the head.  Just two socket head cap screws to remove and it pulls out.  Much faster than oiling by the oil cup on the right rear.  The oil goes to the  same place.
> 
> Also check that the nut on the bottom of the quill does not have a burr on it.  That can score the bore a bit, right at the bottom and cause tightness.  If all else fails, then drop the quill out and inspect it and the bore for burrs.
> 
> Good luck!



I checked the bolt torques, they weren't over tightened, didn't make a difference.

The quill lock clamps do not appear to be the problem. Not stuck and no galling seen anywhere on the quill.

I just happened to have some marvel mystery oil (25 years old) and after flooding the quill and running it up and down it did get slightly better. Didn't try to adjust the return spring yet.

After doing these items I had to go over to the sellers house to pickup the manuals and while chatting he mentioned he oiled the quill (though the oil cup) using way oil. BINGO. I think it's just gummed up with the heaver, stickier oil. I am tempted to try flushing some kerosene through to see if that frees it up any.

I don't know how the quill is removed. It looks like a threaded collar is on the bottom of the quill. There are two holes on the underside, maybe for a spanner type of wrench but with two pins?

Thanks for the help Jim.


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## JimDawson

sanddan said:


> I don't know how the quill is removed. It looks like a threaded collar is on the bottom of the quill. There are two holes on the underside, maybe for a spanner type of wrench but with two pins?
> 
> Thanks for the help Jim.



Nope, that's how the spindle comes out after you remove the quill.  No need to loosen the nut.  The quill does come out the bottom.

I think you're on the right track by flushing with kerosene, way oil is much too sticky.  I use AW46 hydraulic oil on mine (that's what I have on the shelf)

Getting the quill out is about a 15 minute job after you've done it once.  The first time takes a little longer.   In order to pull the quill you have to remove the quill pinion shaft and then the quill literally falls out the bottom so make sure it's supported.  It weighs about 20lbs or so.  I normally tilt the head over about 45 degrees, this give clearance for it to come out, with splines and all it's about 18 inches long.

To remove the quill;
Move the quill to the top and* lock the quill using the quill lock *
Remove the drawbar
Loosen the return spring and get the tension off of it.  If you don't have the tool, channel locks work for backing it off, you may have to put a screw back in and get another bite.  I've used large ''L'' head snap ring pliers also.
Once the spring is loose, remove all of the hardware on that side of the quill.  Don't loose the key, they normally fall out on the floor never to be seen again.
On the left side, remove the two socket head cap screws holding the power feed clutch mechanism and remove that.
Reach in and pull out the serrated clutch half unless it came out with the rest of the hardware.
Now you should be able to access the snap ring holding the mating clutch plate.  Remove the snap ring, clutch and key(s).
Now you can pull the pinion shaft out from the right side.
Once the pinon shaft is out, the quill is free to come out
Now is the time to tilt the head over.
Now you can unlock the quill and slide it out.
There is a sheet metal sleeve up high in the bore, this is a shield to keep chips out.  It should stay in place but take care when reassembling that you don't catch an edge and bend it.  It slides up & down with the quill so it will be a bit loose in there.
Assemble in reverse order.

I may have forgotten a small step or two here, I'm just going from memory.

It's always my pleasure to help out where I can.


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## Sendit

Does the quill get tight on the last 1-1.5 " of travel?

Where exactly is the power down feed engage lever? Can you post a picture please.


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## JimDawson

Sendit said:


> Where exactly is the power down feed engage lever?


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## Sendit

Ah! you said two screws not three 

Mine quill gets tight at the end of travel but regardless of position of the quill lever it will not try to return to full up position.

Is there any oil I can try that I can get at auto parts store or Walmart?

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## JimDawson

Power steering fluid is pretty close to AW32 hydraulic oil, should work fine.

As far as not retracting all the way, the quill could be stiff or the return spring may be out of adjustment.  But many times you will have to push the quill up the last little bit.  The spring should not be so tight that the quill retracts like a drill press.  The spring is just a counterbalance.


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## Sendit

What would make it stuff the last inch of travel?  I'm suppose to have a full 5 inches correct?

I'm comparing my machine to ACER clones at school because that's all I have to go on.


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## Sendit

Just pour a bottle in the engage lever and work it back and forth. Will it drain out or will I have to drain it out?


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## JimDawson

Yes, you should have a full 5 inches of travel

I would not pour in a whole bottle. A few squirts with an oil can would be enough.  The oil cup just to the rear goes to the same area, it just takes longer to get oil into it.

It could be dry.  The other possibility it that the lower head is not aligned with the drive system.  I didn't know about this one until I had a really tight quill on reassembly one time.

Loosen the the bolts a little, and work the quill up & down. I think there are 3 bolts.  You may have to move things around a bit with a dead blow hammer.  The lower case is not pinned to the upper case.  There has been some discussion about ''floating'' the head in under power, but I have never tried it.


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## sanddan

I went through this on my mill as the PO had used way oil in the lube cup and gummed things up. I dumped a bunch of Marvel mystery oil in and let it soak in and loosen things up. It took awhile but it does work. I now use SAE 32 oil, same as I use in the lathe gear box. I fill the oil cup every time I use the mill as it will drain out over time.


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## Sendit

So the tighten of the quil toward the end of the travel while extending down could be.  I do have full travel just the last 1/2 inch or so gets right.

1) no oil, gummed up
2) Head to lower portion is not aligned correctly.  Aren't these the boltsthat BP says to never loosen?
3) clock spring on the quil handle


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## JimDawson

I would start with no oil/gummed up

It is possible that the spring has been ''repaired'' and shortened a bit.  That would account for not having full travel.  It's not uncommon for them to break and the quick fix is to cut it off and put another notch in it.



Sendit said:


> 2) Head to lower portion is not aligned correctly. Aren't these the boltsthat BP says to never loosen?



I think so.  But that never stopped me, but then again I'm half crazy anyway.  It's not that big of a deal to get things lined up.  You can feel it when it's right.


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## Sendit

What if I took the spring assembly off to test if the spring is bad.  I'm going to be ordering some parts from  H&W/ Bridgeportparts.net in the next few days.

I need a DRO, VFD, Vise


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## JimDawson

That seems reasonable.  A new spring assembly, including a new can, should be around $40


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## Sendit

This little guy

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIDGEPORT-...945585?hash=item2583f95571:g:EFMAAOxyWmxSXEJP


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## JimDawson

Yup, that's the one.


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## Sendit

Taking the clock spring out didn't work.  The spring looks to be modified because the is pretty bent.  Like someone use pliers to taken them.  I though I had some P/W fluid but didnt.


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## Sendit

Should the quil fall down under its own weight with the clock spring removed?


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## JimDawson

Sendit said:


> Should the quil fall down under its own weight with the clock spring removed?



Yes.  I forgot to mention that. Always have the quill locked or supported at the top when working on the spring.


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## Sendit

Well it doesn't fall.   So something must be causing it not to fall when remove.  How hard is it to remove the quil?  Can it be done with out removing the top half of the  (variable speed control)?


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## JimDawson

It's pretty easy to remove the quill.   It comes out the bottom, and you don't have to remove anything on top except the draw bar.

I wrote up how to do it here
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/bp-quill-getting-tight.31395/#post-318291

I did forget one step above, you have to also remove the quill stop.  Which means getting the quill stop screw out of the way so you can get to the socket head cap screw behind it to remove the quill stop.


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## Sendit

JimDawson said:


> It's pretty easy to remove the quill.   It comes out the bottom, and you don't have to remove anything on top except the draw bar.
> 
> I wrote up how to do it here
> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/bp-quill-getting-tight.31395/#post-318291
> 
> I did forget one step above, you have to also remove the quill stop.  Which means getting the quill stop screw out of the way so you can get to the socket head cap screw behind it to remove the quill stop.





I have the front part of the quil power feed part, with the threading rod, lock nut and other small parts off.  Sorry I don't know the correct term for that section.

I followed your instruction but when I got to this part I got kinda lost

"On the left side, remove the two socket head cap screws holding the power feed clutch mechanism and remove that.
Reach in and pull out the serrated clutch half unless it came out with the rest of the hardware.
Now you should be able to access the snap ring holding the mating clutch plate. Remove the snap ring, clutch and key(s).
Now you can pull the pinion shaft out from the right side."

I removed the power feed clutch cover and the arm that attaches to the engagement lever (I'm replacing it).    Looking at the end of the clutch shaft I see a small snap ring that holes the clutches/springs on the quill shaft. 

*edit*
When I took the cover off I though the end I was seeing with the snap ring was the  quill shaft.  I see now it's not



The downfeed selector and  fine feed I thought were driven by the quill lever.

The spindle has to come out before all this right?  J head variable speed 2hp.



EDIT 2

I found this picture, if it is a accurate representation of how the shafts are driven I see the quill shaft power the fine feed which then power the power feed selector.





Sorry but it's hard to understand when I'm new and don't know the correct term.


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## JimDawson

That's a great picture, that is what the parts look like inside.

That serrated clutch hub, on the quill shaft side, should have a snap ring keeping it on the shaft.  The shaft comes out the right hand side.  The thrust bearing will just be pushed off as the shaft slides out.  Once the snap ring is removed, you can tap on the end of the shaft to drive it out if needed.


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## Sendit

The washer will not fall down in some deep black hole, amusing it wont. lol

The quill and spindle then can be removed as one unit?


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## JimDawson

It's pretty well captured in there, at least until it falls on the floor and evaporates.  Once the shaft is free to move, just push it out the right hand side.  The quill gear may be keyed to the shaft, and may come off in this process.  If so just reach in and grab it from the right hand side.  The the quill should just slide out.

The spindle is inside the quill, and it does come out as one unit.  Don't take it apart.


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## Sendit

JimDawson said:


> It's pretty well captured in there, at least until it falls on the floor and evaporates.  Once the shaft is free to move, just push it out the right hand side.  The quill gear may be keyed to the shaft, and may come off in this process.  If so just reach in and grab it from the right hand side.  The the quill should just slide out.
> 
> The spindle is inside the quill, and it does come out as one unit.  Don't take it apart.




Ok so I ran over to the shop with this new information.  I manage to get the pinion shaft out and notice the quill gear had some damage.  Luckly the gear is softer and is cheap to replace.

The quill on the other hand is a pain in the butt.  I took a 1/2" drive extention for a socket wrench to drive it out as far as I could.  I call and talked to H&W today and me mention that sometimes he has to hammer out the quills because they are so tight. The only thing that I could see hammering on is the draw bar.  Boy I hope I'm right.. lol

I rose the knee to just under the quill of .100 or so.  Place a 2x4 under the quill and started to drive it out. Then lower the knee .1 -.2  and hammer it again.  I hit a spot where the quill wouldn't move so I sprayed WD-40 ( only thing I had on hand) to help keep the quill lubed.   I used the knee to raise the quill up and then hammered it back down.  It finally got passed that point and shortly after hit another one.  By the time my arm was jello ( I'm small kid).  So,  in stead of working harder I'm thinking of working smarter.  I have  a air hammer and a small air compressor with a regulator.  Image the socket exention in the draw bar hole with the female end of the extention facing up (the part that connects to the wrench).  Use this portion to help hold the air hammer bit and give it some light blows.  Hoping the frequency helps move quill.  I could see chips  in the quill housing from the mirco stop window.


I'm hoping WD-40 will not hurt the bearing sealed or not. 

When I put the pinion gear and shaft back together what assembly oil should I use?  I thought about straight motor oil but didn't know if that was acceptable or not.


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## JimDawson

Wow, I've never heard of one being that tight.  Pounding on the drawbar/spline is pounding directly on the spindle bearings.  Not good.  Might be time for a spindle bearing replacement.

I also don't understand why the pinion gear is damaged on the edge.  It should contact the rack closer to the center.  Looks like something is not lined up correctly.

Looks like a lot of chips at the top of the quill, is the shield even in there?  It may be time to take the top off and go into things a bit deeper.  This would also allow you to get to the top quill so you don't have beat on the spindle.


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## Sendit

The guys at H&W say the top of the quil is sometimes tight and they bang them out with a brass bushing under the draw bar.


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## Falcody

If the quill is only sticking at the very top, reach around the back side of the quill at the bottom to find the lock screw for the spindle retaining nut. If it's too tight it will make the bottom of the quill deform.


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## Sendit

Falcody said:


> If the quill is only sticking at the very top, reach around the back side of the quill at the bottom to find the lock screw for the spindle retaining nut. If it's too tight it will make the bottom of the quill deform.


It gets tight as I push the quill down.

I got the quill out.  The two screws that hold the skrit is what was holding me up.


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## SPICEMAN

I know I am late to the party on this but after acquiring a new to me BP vari-speed J head las month I found on getting it home the quill would barely move.  

Reading this and other posts on the web I tried most all the ideas listed.  I finally proceeded to push (or should I say drive the whole mess out after soaking in oil and solvent for a week.  
Once removed I found two issues first is a hardened build up at the lower end of housing and the other was a half in wide inch long film of light rust on side of housing about same level as quill feed.    Some signs of wear on quill ram but very faint (if my lathe was up and running I would polish it).  I found a very fine stone piston hone and about 5 seconds of honing cleaned all up and polished the walls.  
A note I used 30wt oil to hone the walls and tried using it to slide the ram in but it had bad drag and stuck.  So I cleaned and used spindle oil and it slides very nice with light pressure only.  Hard part on using the hone was the square opening in the front had to be blocked so hone would not catch.

The build up and rust I believe are from previous owner leaving machine setting for a couple years.

Unfortunately I have found some one left some damage in the cabbage head so the tilt does not work.  I need to repair the cracked out casting parts so the bolt heads can travel smoothly.  Suspect the chip outs are from forklift operator hitting back of head with a fork.


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## Kroll

Like my old father inlaw use to say"A news paper will always be new till you read it regardless of age"Which this can applies to post and all post are timeless.Plus like you, having a new to me BP all this post are a big help


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