# Need Aluminum welding Capabitities



## JR49 (Aug 19, 2017)

I've been wanting to add aluminum to my welding processes for a while now, but frankly, I really don't have the room for another welder.  I doubt that I would use it all that much, mostly for repairs.  In fact, it's on my mind tonight because the alum.  housing on one of my angle grinders has a crack at 2 of the 4  mounting tabs.  I have a very capable Lincoln Power Mig 210 MP  and I am wondering if the spool gun accessory for aluminum wire would give me the extra capability I'm looking for.  So I'm asking all the welders out there who have either used spool guns or  have the know how to advise me what I might like or more importantly what I won't like about them.  Also, would I need to switch to pure Argon when using spool gun on aluminum, or can I use the 75/25 mig mix I normally use?   As always, thanks for the help,   JR49


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## mikey (Aug 19, 2017)

JR, I'll let the real welders chime in but will tell you what I use. I have a small bottle of pure Argon that I use only for aluminum; the Argon/CO2 used for steel doesn't shield well. I don't have a spool gun; I just change to a nylon liner sold for use with aluminum wire. My justification is that I don't weld aluminum nearly enough to justify a spool gun and the liner works just fine for my needs. I've used this for small aluminum welding jobs for the past 15 years or so and it works fine for me. Bear in mind that I don't weld thick stuff. If I have to over 1/8" thick I just gas weld it.


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## Karl_T (Aug 19, 2017)

I built my MIG welder  up to have two bottles on the cart and have the spool gun all hooked up. Just disconnect the CO2 and hook up argon and weld AL. My original "plan A" was to make an argon/CO2 mix unit. Then i could run CO2 or any % argon added. Just turn CO to zero for AL. Never did get this part done.

Anyway, AL welding with a spool gun works excellently.

I am surprised by the above report about changing the liner working well. I had heard the opposite.


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## JR49 (Aug 19, 2017)

mikey said:


> Bear in mind that I don't weld thick stuff. If I have to over 1/8" thick I just gas weld it.



This sounds interesting, I've had an oxy/acet set up for years.  As I recall, I tried welding aluminum with it once but gave up due to poor results.  Can you (or anyone in the know) give me more details about gas welding aluminum (rods, flux, preheat needed?), seems that "nowadays" (oh God, did I really use that word. I'm REALLY old) the kids they have working behind the counter at welding supply stores, can't be trusted to answer questions like this.  So, thanks for any and all help,   JR49
PS, also hoping for more opinions on spool guns      Happy Machining

EDIT, OH WAIT, one more question.  Is the regulator that came with the Power Mig OK to use with a pure Argon tank?


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## mikey (Aug 19, 2017)

I got my gas welding stuff (flux, cobalt lens and stuff) from Tinman Tech. Gas will weld aluminum really fast if you're good at it, which I am not. I also use the Meco Midget torch and light weight lines, which makes things a whole lot easier to weld with.

I don't know if the regulator is okay to mix; I just use my Argon/CO2 regulator with Argon gas and it seems to work okay.


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## Silverbullet (Aug 19, 2017)

The others are right pure argon will work with your spool gun ideas . You will find the aluminum wire will need to feed faster then steel wire. Get your gas bottle spool gun and aluminum wire, then practise . If you weld steel now with a few practises you'll get it. Good luck have fun.


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## Ironken (Aug 22, 2017)

JR49 said:


> This sounds interesting, I've had an oxy/acet set up for years.  As I recall, I tried welding aluminum with it once but gave up due to poor results.  Can you (or anyone in the know) give me more details about gas welding aluminum (rods, flux, preheat needed?), seems that "nowadays" (oh God, did I really use that word. I'm REALLY old) the kids they have working behind the counter at welding supply stores, can't be trusted to answer questions like this.  So, thanks for any and all help,   JR49
> PS, also hoping for more opinions on spool guns      Happy Machining
> 
> EDIT, OH WAIT, one more question.  Is the regulator that came with the Power Mig OK to use with a pure Argon tank?



Your flow gauge should be a 580 style (if memory serves), and will wirk fine on a pure argon cylinder valve.

As far as a spool gun goes, the lower end spool guns that Lincoln sells for their small machines are useable but, nowhere near what an industrial spool gun is. I used to have one for my Lincoln PM180 that I used for portable junk years ago. You mentioned welding some tabs back on your angle grinder......you may not be satisfied with the results of a spool gun on small aluminum parts. Kinda hard to dot small AL parts together with a spool gun.

As far as MIG welding aluminum, bear in mind that it runs in a spray transfer mode, that is that it runs with a soft arc and pushing works best. On a small machine like you have, an Ar/He mix might give you a bit more punch on heavier section parts but, I doubt that you wanna buy/lease a big a++ "T" size cylinder for this. I'm not sure on the availability of Ar/He mixes in smaller cylinders.

It was mentioned already that simply feeding AL through the gun works.....and it can. You will need a U groove drive roll in addition to the plastic liner. 5356 seems to feed better than 4043 in this setup due to 5356 wire having more column strength thus better for the pushin'. This may limit your AL capabilities. In my opinion, this setup can be frustrating and is prone to birdnesting in your feeder. If you choose this setup, you may want to drill your contact tip just a tiny bit larger so when she heats up and swells, your wire don't bind up and cause a birdsnest so easily.

Would it be a good addition to your 210? Sure! Does it have limitations? Yep.


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## JR49 (Aug 26, 2017)

Thanks to all who responded, they were very helpful in helping me to decide to get a spool gun.  So that brings up one final question.  I currently own 2 tanks for my mig setup, 1 CO2, and 1 mig mix 75/25.  Ever since I found out that I could use CO2, I have been using it almost exclusively, and , as I'm only a hobby welder, I honestly don't notice any difference.  Better welders might (feel free to share), and of course the CO2 is much cheaper.  My AirGas guy Says when I bring in my 75/24 mix tank, I can swap it for the same size Argon tank at no additional charge, other than the gas of course.  This would help both my wallet, and my limited space. Problem is, the 75/25 tank is still at least 70% full.   So finally to my question,  What problems will I encounter if I use the 75/25 gas with spool gun on aluminum, until I use up the gas (it's a small tank).  Mostly, having never user a spool gun, I want to know what is from the slightly wrong gas and what is me doing something wrong?  Thanks,  JR49


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## Ironken (Aug 26, 2017)

JR49 said:


> Thanks to all who responded, they were very helpful in helping me to decide to get a spool gun.  So that brings up one final question.  I currently own 2 tanks for my mig setup, 1 CO2, and 1 mig mix 75/25.  Ever since I found out that I could use CO2, I have been using it almost exclusively, and , as I'm only a hobby welder, I honestly don't notice any difference.  Better welders might (feel free to share), and of course the CO2 is much cheaper.  My AirGas guy Says when I bring in my 75/24 mix tank, I can swap it for the same size Argon tank at no additional charge, other than the gas of course.  This would help both my wallet, and my limited space. Problem is, the 75/25 tank is still at least 70% full.   So finally to my question,  What problems will I encounter if I use the 75/25 gas with spool gun on aluminum, until I use up the gas (it's a small tank).  Mostly, having never user a spool gun, I want to know what is from the slightly wrong gas and what is me doing something wrong?  Thanks,  JR49



Sorry bro, you're gonna have to bite the bullet and waste the C-25. Co2 is a reactive gas and doesn't play well with Al. You will get a huge amount of Al oxides forming, black smut and a ruined part. It is akin to putting diesel in your gasoline vehicle. It'll go in but it is wrong.

Personally on thinner section carbon steel the C-25 shouldn't be as prone to burn through.....I would trade the Co2 cylinder if possible for the Ar. Don't know if they will swap them since the Co2 valve is different than inert valves. The advantage to Co2 in a smaller machine is that can give underpowered machines a bit more punch due to its penetration properties.


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## JR49 (Aug 26, 2017)

Ironken said:


> .....I would trade the Co2 cylinder if possible for the Ar.



Ironken trading the CO2 tank for an AR. tank is a no go, but I'm still thinking, and hope you and others " in the know" will keep me on the straight and narrow.  How about if I swap the 75/25 tank for an Argon tank,  keep 2 tanks---The CO2 for the majority of mig welding steel, and the Argon tank to use for spool gun aluminum, and when I have thin sheetmetal to weld.  Assuming straight Argon is OK on thin steel.  By now you must be thinking that I am an extreme cheapskate, and your probably right but it's more because I'm trying to add the ability to weld aluminum, bearing in mind that I may sometimes go 6 months or more without welding anything at all, which is why I avoiding buying a full Tig machine.
      In the post above the only problem you cited about using CO2 with mig welding is burning holes in thin metal.  Please anyone If you have others issues with using CO2, let me know before I do this !    Thanks for your time,   JR49


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## Ironken (Aug 26, 2017)

JR49 said:


> Ironken trading the CO2 tank for an AR. tank is a no go, but I'm still thinking, and hope you and others " in the know" will keep me on the straight and narrow.  How about if I swap the 75/25 tank for an Argon tank,  keep 2 tanks---The CO2 for the majority of mig welding steel, and the Argon tank to use for spool gun aluminum, and when I have thin sheetmetal to weld.  Assuming straight Argon is OK on thin steel.  By now you must be thinking that I am an extreme cheapskate, and your probably right but it's more because I'm trying to add the ability to weld aluminum, bearing in mind that I may sometimes go 6 months or more without welding anything at all, which is why I avoiding buying a full Tig machine.
> In the post above the only problem you cited about using CO2 with mig welding is burning holes in thin metal.  Please anyone If you have others issues with using CO2, let me know before I do this !    Thanks for your time,   JR49



Pure Ar is a no go on carbon steel. I have never tried it but, understand that Co2 stops sputtering and stabilizes the arc. I think weld.com has a vid on this very subject on Yootoob.

I don't think you are cheap....just making the most of what you got. I was too cheap to buy an extra cylinder of pure Ar for back purging so I bought a Smith dual flowmeter. I get it.


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## Robert LaLonde (Aug 27, 2017)

I've had a Miller 212 with dual guns and dual bottles for a number of years now.  As an occasional welder I have found I can do a passable job with 5052/5356 or 6061/4043 from 1/8 to 1/4.  Above 1/4 I have to preheat, and while I have actually made welds in stock as thin as .063 below about .1/.08 its beyond my amateur skill level to do reliably without blowing through.   Even using appropriate tack and stitch fill techniques to reduce heat build up.  I suspect I just get in to much of a hurry.  If I was to invest in aluminum welding as a business venture I'd probably go with a pulse TIG set up instead of my regular old MIG setup.  I've got a farmer buddy who welds larger diameter thin wall aluminum sprinkler pipe all the time with his pulse tig and he says he picked it up from watching one of their welders in about a day.  I watched him lay down some repairs, and it looked almost like torch welding.  It seemed to go pretty quick and easy.  One of the things I found that helped a lot with my MIG was to ask on the Miller forums about a particular weld.  Often the speed of the gun to make the weld was incredible.  If it was important to get it right the first time I'd clamp up some scrap in the same alloy and thickness and do some practice welds first.  

I used to also ask on the sci.engr.joining.welding Usenet group, but since Ernie Leimkuhler got tired of all the political posts and quit posting there the amount of quality expertise sort of dwindled away.


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## 682bear (Aug 27, 2017)

I have tried pure argon on mild steel with a mig welder... it results in thin, tall, rope-like beads with poor penetration... I have never tried it on thin sheet metal, but I would expect the same result.

Pure argon is the way to go with aluminum, though...

-Bear


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## Robert LaLonde (Aug 28, 2017)

I use pure argon for aluminum and trimix for steel.  I actually don't care for trimix for most things and will probably get a more suitable dual gas when I refill that bottle.  Might be a while because often my little flux core is more handy for steel welding.


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## NCjeeper (Aug 30, 2017)

I have a spoolmate gun for my miller 210. It works but don't really care for it. Much rather tig aluminum.


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## Ironken (Aug 30, 2017)

NCjeeper said:


> I have a spoolmate gun for my miller 210. It works but don't really care for it. Much rather tig aluminum.



That's kinda my position.....they work but, its like welding with a football. If I ever start doing aluminum in volume, I'll get a push-pull gun for my machine.


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