# Mill Vise Opinions



## JPigg55 (Jul 21, 2015)

Been chatting with Terry Wermer about a deal from a co-worker for a NIB 4" precision milling vise from The Little Machine Sop with swivel base for $100.
Before clamping myself in on the deal, thought I'd take opinions on milling vises.
Videos I've watched tend to recommend buying a good vise like a Kurt or Glacern over a cheaper one.
Looking at prices, my wallet my make the final choice.
What are your thoughts ?


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## schor (Jul 21, 2015)

I bought a Chinese milling vise and I'm really not very happy with it. Even though it is based on the curt anglelock design it does not seem to work well unless I really tighten down the lock (sorry not sure what the thing is actually called). When I tighten it down to what is required it is very hard to open/close the vise.

I am just a hobbyist so for me I live with it, it cost me $139 for my 4" vise. I would never want to use this vise in a real shop every day.

Also I removed the swivel base and have never used it, so that is another thing to consider.


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## joshua43214 (Jul 21, 2015)

I got a cheap 4" vice from QMT when I bought my little PM mill. It clamps things and works. It is not really square all the way around.
I waited for a discount +free shipping from Enco and used it for a Kurt.
Get the Kurt now or later, you will be happy you did.


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## fast freddie (Jul 21, 2015)

JPigg55 said:


> Been chatting with Terry Wermer about a deal from a co-worker for a NIB 4" precision milling vise from The Little Machine Sop with swivel base for $100.
> Before clamping myself in on the deal, thought I'd take opinions on milling vises.
> Videos I've watched tend to recommend buying a good vise like a Kurt or Glacern over a cheaper one.
> Looking at prices, my wallet my make the final choice.
> What are your thoughts ?


if your a fair machinist the vise will work ok. don't get it to make parts for nasa.


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## Silverbullet (Jul 21, 2015)

Yupp the vise is only as good as the machinist.


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## RJSakowski (Jul 22, 2015)

I bought a Grizzly 4" vise after having been impressed with the quality of one we bought at work.  I did do some rework on the vise though.  Pulled the movable jaw off and cleaned up the as-cast surface on the lock down cam and added a small amount of grease to the threads.  I also made a new beefed up thrust bushing to replace the rather flimsy OEM bushing.

It is not a Kurt but I could buy six of them for the price of a Kurt.  

+1 on what Silverbullet said.

Bob


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## coffmajt (Jul 22, 2015)

If you want precision look for a vise that applies downward pressure when the moveable jaw is tightened.. Kurt and others have this feature.  Beyond that, you will pay some more for vices that are square and flat on the jaws to begin with.  Also, while a swivel base might sound neat to start with, it reduces the available head room


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## coffmajt (Jul 22, 2015)

If you want precision look for a vise that applies downward pressure when the moveable jaw is tightened.. Kurt and others have this feature. Beyond that, you will pay some more for vices that are square and flat on the jaws to begin with. Also, while a swivel base might sound neat to start with, it reduces the available head room in your mill, plus you can set any angle you need using your hold down clamps with the vise set to the desired angle -- Jack Coffman


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## Baithog (Jul 22, 2015)

LMS has 2, 4" precision vices. If its the plain "professional", then it's not a very good deal. You can get equivalent vices from a variety of sources for nearly that price on special. The other is the "professional" version with much better precision specs. That is a great deal and you aught to grab it before someone else finagles it.


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## Andre (Jul 22, 2015)

The vise on my mill was built probably decades before the Kurt angle-lock was even thought of. Talk about jaw lift, but there are ways around it. Use paper to cradle the part and tap it with a dead blow, no big deal to be honest.


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## uncle harry (Jul 22, 2015)

Andre said:


> The vise on my mill was built probably decades before the Kurt angle-lock was even thought of. Talk about jaw lift, but there are ways around it. Use paper to cradle the part and tap it with a dead blow, no big deal to be honest.



Thanks for the tip.  I have vintage vises, 1 Starrett & 1 Bridgeport. I'm assuming they "climb up" on clamping. Any advice on whether this is the case ?


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## Andre (Jul 22, 2015)

uncle harry said:


> Thanks for the tip.  I have vintage vises, 1 Starrett & 1 Bridgeport. I'm assuming they "climb up" on clamping. Any advice on whether this is the case ?


Starrett mill vise? Never heard of one. Mustve been expensive back in the day!

Mount a mag base dial indicator on the table, the with the indicator tip on a flat and smooth part of the movable jaw clamp a round bar horizontally and note the indicator movement. .015-.025 should be normal IMO.

Unless your willing to regrind it scrape the vise back into perfect condition, I wouldn't worry about it. I've machined some very accurate parts on my sloppy vise.

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk


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## thomas s (Jul 22, 2015)

I have a Shars 4 inch and am happy with it .As Andre said you need to tap the part down so your part is flat on the vise. thomas s


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## uncle harry (Jul 22, 2015)

Andre said:


> Starrett mill vise? Never heard of one. Mustve been expensive back in the day!
> 
> Mount a mag base dial indicator on the table, the with the indicator tip on a flat and smooth part of the movable jaw clamp a round bar horizontally and note the indicator movement. .015-.025 should be normal IMO.
> 
> ...



Thanks. I hadn't heard of one either until I purchased a BP knockoff mill from the left-over inventory of the Excalibur Automobile Co. Started by Brooks Stevens & his sons.  The logo for Starrett is raised lettering on the casting.  This is too ancient to be "off shore".


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## JPigg55 (Jul 22, 2015)

Thanks for the opions.
It is the LMS Proffesional series (https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4733&category=1963256912). Only reason I didn't take it originally was thinking it was too big for my Clausing 8520 losing some Y-axis movement, but found out different.


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## Sandia (Jul 22, 2015)

See if you  can find a good used Kurt on Ebay minus the swivel base. It will be a lot cheaper, and you probably will never use the swivel base anyway, plus is takes up a lot of vertical space on the table.
Just my opinion.


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## JPigg55 (Jul 27, 2015)

Are replacement jaws/other types of jaws interchangable between different manufacterers or are they brand specific ?
With that, what type of jaws do you find the most useful ?


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## hman (Jul 27, 2015)

I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that there's not a whole lot of interchangeability ... hole locations are probably not the same.  But if two brands of knockoffs came from the same Chinese factory, there's a chance they would fit.

As for useful jaws, I'll refer you to an excellent article about soft jaws (by Rick Sparber, a member here): http://rick.sparber.org/Articles/sj/sj6.pdf


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## JPigg55 (Jul 28, 2015)

Thanks for the article hman, lot of good info.


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## gapi (Jul 28, 2015)

We have one of these 75-lb., TE-CO Parlec's that works very well. http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/vises.htm#Mill_Vise


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## Zoltan (Jul 28, 2015)

Personally, I use a modified screwless vise. I tried going to a Kurt style vise, but went back to the screwless after a while because:
1. Deeper jaws
2. Precision ground and parallel
3. Can mount vise on it's side or even on end
4. Wider jaw opening
5. Better at fighting jaw lift
6. It's still stronger than my X2 mill

Here are the modifications I made:
http://benchtopmachineshop.blogspot.com/2013/05/mill-vises.html
http://benchtopmachineshop.blogspot.com/2015/02/mill-screwless-precision-vise.html


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## hman (Jul 29, 2015)

Zoltan -
Thanks for posting about your mods to the screwless vise.  I bought one a couple months ago, and will be happy to shamelessly steal your idea!

Years ago, I bought "the other kind" of screwless for my X2 - the kind with full length cross pin, a "cross nut," and a cap screw on the moveable jaw.  If the cap screw ever gets unscrewed from the cross nut, it's a challenge to find and re-connect.  I modified the vise by adding a stud to the cross nut, and use a 1/4-20 nut on top to tighten the jaw.  Serendipitous side effect - no more swarf clogging the socket head of the cap screw!


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## JPigg55 (Jul 30, 2015)

So far, I'm leaning towards the Glacern Premium 4" vise (https://www.glacern.com/gpv_412) for my Clausing 8520. Cost as much as a Kurt D40, but think it may be more versatile.
Only thing being is I don't think the GPV-412 can be used with a swivel base. At least I don't see an option for one on the Glacern site.
So to that end, I've got a couple more questions,

How often do you use your swivel base and do you think it worth having one ?
Pushing the budget a bit, but considering also buying the LMS vise from my buddy. Thinking it would allow having a cheaper vise for general machining adding less risk of chewing up the higher priced one and have the option of a swivel base and having the other for more accuracy based work. See any flaws in my thought process ?
As stated earlier, the LMS vise is the Proffesional version (https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4733&category=1963256912). When I looked at it, the divisions on the swivel base looked a little out of wack. Anyone have any experience with this vise ?
Does anyone have a GPV-412 or similar and found a way to mount to a swivel base ?


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## hman (Jul 30, 2015)

Just about everybody I've discussed this with agrees that a swivel base is most useful as an expendable boat anchor.  I have 2 vises that came with swivel bases, have never used them, and kinda wonder why I've kept them around.  You'll find pretty much the same opinion in the other posts on this thread.

I don't recall what size mill you said you have, but in addition to whatever 4" vise you buy, I'd suggest you also get a small screwless vise.  Among other offerings, Little Machine Shop has two specials going right now:
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1591&category=
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4871&category=

Zoltan made several good points in his post above, regarding the usefulness of screwless vises.  Somebody in another thread mentioned another - you can mount it at just about any angle (no need for a swivel base), because the mounting holes/slots go pretty much all the way around it. Finally, it's very easy to get it mounted "square with the world" on the mill table, by using a machinist's square against the table's front edge and the (straight!) side of the vise.  Not absolutely, positively perfect, but pretty durn good, especially for quick jobs.


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## Doubleeboy (Jul 30, 2015)

You could not get me to part with my Kurt with Swivel base.  I suspect the folks that have a beef with swivel bases have a Chinese version.  My Kurt combo is flat as can be, and has held up to some pretty rough work.  I fail to see the problem with them.  I suspect the folks who rag on swivels have never used a Kurt set up in good shape.   I vote for cry once and buy quality especially on tooling like vises.

michael


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## JPigg55 (Jul 30, 2015)

Doubleeboy said:


> You could not get me to part with my Kurt with Swivel base.  I suspect the folks that have a beef with swivel bases have a Chinese version.  My Kurt combo is flat as can be, and has held up to some pretty rough work.  I fail to see the problem with them.  I suspect the folks who rag on swivels have never used a Kurt set up in good shape.   I vote for cry once and buy quality especially on tooling like vises.


 
I take it you use your swivel base a lot.
Is there any specific type work where you use it or just in general ?


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## Doubleeboy (Jul 30, 2015)

No I really don't use it alot, but it sure makes tramming the vise in x axis a breeze when I lift the vise off to clean underneath.  I do set it over from time to time and a number of times it I have used it carefully in the loose position to put a radius on the end of some flat stock in not critical situations.  When I bought my swivel base and D675 10 or so years ago, several people warned me of the horrors of swivel vises.  Not a one of them ever took me up on the offer to come over and makes some cuts and take some measurements on how flat the vise sits. I suppose some one has left a swivel base loose in a job shop and next operator to use machine had a hissy fit when their part and cutter was ruined because the base was loose.  Being a one man show, that is not likely to ever be a problem for me.  I either have the vise set up and trammed and tightened down or its hanging in the air by its holder.

For multi axis work I frequently also use a Wilton 3 angle 3" milling vise.  They are not cheap, not as heavy duty as a Kurt, but three axis adjustment is pretty handy.   If I had a small mill I believe I would suck it up and get a 4" Kurt and a Wilton 2 or 3 axis vise.  Could pass on the swivel base for Kurt and still have lots of options.

I have lots of Chinese (cheap and not cheap) tools in shop.  Most get the job done, some make me happy, when I use the Kurt or Wilton I am not let down and know they are better machines than I am a machinist.

michael


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## JimDawson (Jul 31, 2015)

Interestingly, in about 50 some years of machining I have never used a swivel base. It might be useful for cutting angles but so is a rotary table.  I have no problem with them but rather just never had a use for one.


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## turnitupper (Jul 31, 2015)

Here's one use for a swivel vice. Making radius slots. Loosen the swivel a little and turn by hand. Rough but effective enough for a TV bracket adjuster.Yes I am ROUGH.
John


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## Terrywerm (Jul 31, 2015)

I have a swivel base for my vise, and I do use if from time to time to cut a specific angle when required. Every time I begin to think that I can remove the swivel base and store it in the cabinet, another project comes up requiring a specific and accurate angle to be milled, and the swivel base gets to stay on the mill a little while longer. Using a dial indicator you can accurately set the vise to a specific angle much like using a sine bar, but this is much easier if you also have a DRO on your mill.


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## Shadowdog500 (Aug 1, 2015)

Andre said:


> The vise on my mill was built probably decades before the Kurt angle-lock was even thought of. Talk about jaw lift, but there are ways around it. Use paper to cradle the part and tap it with a dead blow, no big deal to be honest.



Thanks for the tip. I assume the paper is to increase holding power. this tip almost makes me want to shear down a large pack of post its to fit my vise jaws. That way I could stick them to the jaws and they would stay on thier own.

I have no idea when my Bison mill vise was made, but I doubt the jaws pull down like yo say.

Chris


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## Andre (Aug 2, 2015)

Shadowdog, the paper is to keep the part from getting marred when getting hammered down in the vise. Without it, the sharp top edge of the jaw caps cut a groove like a chisel, even in steel.


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