# South Bend 10K Reverse Tumbler



## Wheels17 (Apr 12, 2013)

I had a sudden problem with oil leakage from the non-chuck end of the spindle on my 10K that prompted me to pull the spindle to look for plugged oil passages or other problems. I bought the book and felt kit from ILION Industrial and proceeded to pull the spindle.  I didn't find anything, the spindle and bearings look good. I replaced the old oiling felts with the ones in the kit, lubed the cone pulley with Superlube and did the needle bearing replacement of the fiber washer.  One thing here that I'm not sure about is the clearance between the bull gear and the headstock casting.  I pulled the spindle in until I had .007 clearance between the ring behind the threads and the headstock (.005 recommended), but there is a significant gap between the bull gear and the headstock bearing.  Using feeler gauges, I measure it as .039".  Is this normal?

My reverse tumbler was loaded with the grease used by the prior owner, and I decided that, as long as I had it off and had the felts, I'd replace them.  Now I'm a bit confused.  The instructions in the book basically say "replace the old felts with new" and they say they are to be pulled through with hooks.  Not much detail.  Even pulling them out I had problems hooking the felt with the wires.

The poor quality sketch below shows how  I think the felts were installed on the tumbler before I pulled them out.  All three seemed to be full length, meaning that they all had to be pulled into the passage underneath the oil cup.  I seems like this would be pretty tricky, and I wanted to be sure I was installing them correctly before I struggled with manipulating them into the position shown.  Also, would they be easier to install wetted with oil, or dry?




Any direction I can get on this would be greatly appreciated.


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## JPar (Jan 7, 2022)

I realize this is a very old thread.  I'm replacing the felts in the reverse tumbler on my 10K, and I have the same question as the OP, which apparently was never answered.  I hope that someone here who has replaced these on their machine will chime in here.  How did you arrange the felts on your machine?  Did you use the technique shown in the OP, with all three wicks extending into the main channel?  Or did you do it a different way?
John


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## JPar (Jan 11, 2022)

No responses here, but I did get some help on the Facebook South Bend lathe group.  I thought I would document here what I did, just to give some closure to this thread.  The crude sketch below shows the approach I went with.  For the blue and red galleries, I inserted the felt wicks all the way to the blind ends of the holes.  Then, for the black gallery, I used a piece of fine wire to pull a wick from the shaft end up to the Gits fitting end.  After unwrapping the wire, I pulled the wick down until the end was about 0.5" down (inside) from the Gits and then trimmed it flush with the "keyway".  I then fitted the "keyway" with the proper size rectangular felt.

With this approach, all of the felts are in contact with the felt in the Gits gallery (black).  When oil is added to the Gits, the felts should wick it to all the places it's needed.
John


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## dwall174 (Jan 11, 2022)

I'm currently working on refurbishing a 13" South Bend lathe & I've gotten a lot of information from YouTube videos by George Bell that are based on the ILION kits mentioned above. 
Here's his video on the reversing lever on the 13" which should be fairly the same on the 10K.





Doug


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## dwall174 (Jan 15, 2022)

While we are on the subject of the reversing tumbler set-up! 
Has anyone tried a set of the roller bearing twin gears from American Machine & Gear Works (AMG)


They're a little pricey, but are they worth the investment? 

Doug


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## DavidR8 (Jan 15, 2022)

dwall174 said:


> While we are on the subject of the reversing tumbler set-up!
> Has anyone tried a set of the roller bearing twin gears from American Machine & Gear Works (AMG)
> View attachment 392386
> 
> ...


Are your gears in need of replacement?


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## dwall174 (Jan 15, 2022)

DavidR8 said:


> Are your gears in need of replacement?


They're both intact & don't have any missing or damaged teeth however one is pretty worn down. 
I'm refurbishing the lathe anyway, so I figured on replacing at-least the worn down one.

Doug


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## DavidR8 (Jan 15, 2022)

dwall174 said:


> They're both intact & don't have any missing or damaged teeth however one is pretty worn down.
> I'm refurbishing the lathe anyway, so I figured on replacing at-least the worn down one.
> 
> Doug


Do you have the rebuild book?


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## dwall174 (Jan 16, 2022)

DavidR8 said:


> Do you have the rebuild book?


Yeah, I got the full rebuild kit with the oil.
I also picked up some new brass shims for the spindle & the brass covers for the way-felts. 

Doug


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## JPar (Jan 16, 2022)

dwall174 said:


> While we are on the subject of the reversing tumbler set-up!
> Has anyone tried a set of the roller bearing twin gears from American Machine & Gear Works (AMG)
> 
> They're a little pricey, but are they worth the investment?
> ...


I agree they are pricey ($175, if I'm looking in the right place).  They look nice, but I'm not convinced that needle bearings are necessary.  Also, if you're replacing the gears you may have to replace the studs as well.
John


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## dwall174 (Jan 16, 2022)

JPar said:


> I agree they are pricey ($175, if I'm looking in the right place).


That's for the 9" model, the 13" one's I would need are $240 


JPar said:


> Also, if you're replacing the gears you may have to replace the studs as well.
> John


My studs are in good shape, but that leads to yet another issue I've been thinking about! 
The factory studs have a grove cut in them for the oiling wicks that are used with the bronze bushings usually used in the gears.


I'm not really sure how well the roller bearings would work with the felt wick? 

Doug


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## JPar (Jan 16, 2022)

dwall174 said:


> My studs are in good shape, but that leads to yet another issue I've been thinking about!
> The factory studs have a grove cut in them for the oiling wicks that are used with the bronze bushings usually used in the gears.
> I'm not really sure how well the roller bearings would work with the felt wick?
> 
> Doug


That's a good point that I overlooked.  I don't think the grooves would play well with the needle bearings.


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