# Opinions please....



## ThunderDog (Dec 8, 2017)

I'm going to take a look at a Sheldon lathe.  The price is set firm @ $475.
I've never seen a Sheldon first hand, so I did a little reading on lathes.co.uk.  No model numbers listed and the gentleman could not remember bed length, center to center, or spindle bore size.  I'll assume it's the 10" variety. It has the original cabinet. One of my main reasons for upgrading to a new lathe is to find something with a larger spindle bore. My current lathe is a Myford M series.
Here is what I know:
It has the double lever quick change gearbox.
It comes with a 4 jaw Chuck, fixed steady, and face plate.

I suppose my main question is whether or not $475 is reasonable and whether Sheldons are decent machines.


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## markba633csi (Dec 8, 2017)

Unless it's a complete piece of junk (and it doesn't look like it) I would buy it right away; Heck yes Sheldons are more than decent
Mark
ps a machine like that would be 3-4x that price out here


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## magu (Dec 8, 2017)

plus one for what Mark said...

Assuming it checked out okay in person, I'd buy it. Heck, I'm not _that_ far away, if you decide it isn't for you let me know.


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## larry4406 (Dec 8, 2017)

When you buy it I hope that means more project videos!


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## dlane (Dec 8, 2017)

Check the ways, gears, parts are slim to none and pricey ,should have double v belt drive,  
it looks similar to my 13" te1236p that needs a complete taredown and cleaning "some week "


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## ThunderDog (Dec 8, 2017)

larry4406 said:


> When you buy it I hope that means more project videos!


1000% YES!!!


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## Dabbler (Dec 8, 2017)

It depends of what hobby you are persuing. I LOVE to rebuild machines, and that is more than 50% of my metalworking hobby.  If you hate doing all the mechanical and restoration work on machines, it will just sit in your garage until you resell it.


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## MarkM (Dec 8, 2017)

Yes Buy it now!  Unless there is something rediculously wrong with it.  You have another lathe if parts are needed.  It looks like it has been ran latelely as the combo feed lead screw has no rust.  If the ways are bad it could still do alot of general machining where a high tolerance isn t needed.  475$ is nothing today!


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## richl (Dec 8, 2017)

I paid about that for a delta Rockwell 11" some years back.  Complete but needs to be put back together.

Not positive if they are in the same exact class, I believe so. I'd buy it.


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## ThunderDog (Dec 8, 2017)

Ok, sounds like this is worth it.

About how much do one of these weigh?
My harbor freight trailer is only rated to 1100 lbs.
May have to call my dad, to borrow his if needed.


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## woodchucker (Dec 8, 2017)

Borrow your dads, it's not worth losing it on the road.   Use  a welded trailer, not a screwed together trailer, and the HF trailers can be twisty.


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## projectnut (Dec 9, 2017)

If the machine isn't all clapped out it's well worth the money.  I have a little newer Sheldon model MW-56-P, and it's a great machine.  There is a Sheldon lathe group on Yahoo.  It's run by a gentleman by the name of John Knox.  He was an engineer for the company for many years.  He is a great source of knowledge.  I have spoken to John on a couple occasions when adjusting spindle bearings and rebuilding the drive system on my machine.  He is easy to talk to and is more than happy to lend a helping hand and give guidance to new Sheldon owners.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups...lYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTUwMTc4MjMxOA--

While parts with the Sheldon nameplate and part numbers may not be readily available many of the generic parts are still available.  There are still some vendors that carry OEM parts for some models.  Bourn and Koch in Chicago comes to mind.  In years past they sold Sheldon machines and support them as much as possible.  Keep in mind Sheldon went out of business in 1999 or 2000, so it's not like they've been gone a hundred years.  There are still quite a few of their machines in repair and production shops.

https://www.bourn-koch.com/

The "lathe" portion of my particular machine was rebuilt by the previous owner.   By "lathe" I'm referring to the spindle, carriage, bed, and tailstock.  He replaced worn and broken gears, worn spindle bearings, lead screw, carriage (including new feed screws, bearings, and having the ways ground).  He also had the bed reground.  In short the working parts of the machine were new (25 hrs. of use) when I purchased it.

I just finished rebuilding the drive section and adding a tachometer.  The drive on this machine is a Worthington model 3B AllSpeed drive.  It's similar to a Reeves drive in that it uses 2 sets of variable sheaves to change speeds rather than change gears.  While the machine is 60 years old all the bearings and bushings are still available as off the shelf items from bearing suppliers.  The original bearing manufacturer is long out of business, but there are many other brands that cross reference.

As far as controls are concerned Sheldon used Furnas for many years.  Like Sheldon Furnas is long gone.  However if you need small parts there are still a number of companies with new old stock.  If you need major electrical components I would switch to Allen Bradley.  The contacts and coils in my machine are still in good shape.  However when/if they do require replacement I have purchased a NOS 709 reversing starter system in the factory enclosure for $100.00.

In short almost everything needed to refurbish and/or repair a Sheldon machine is still available.  It may take some time to research specific components, but unless the machine is worn or damaged to the point of no return it can be brought back to life.


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## bl00 (Dec 9, 2017)

I hope you buy it because otherwise it might end up in my garage.


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## richl (Dec 9, 2017)

Uhaul rents trailers, they have a 4x8 with ramp that goes in the 20 per day range, a 5x8 in around the same price range. The 5x8 is rated in the 2000lbs range.
I use them all the time.


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## Silverbullet (Dec 9, 2017)

Extremely well made machines , up above south bend at the time I think . Worst thing I ever did was sell mine. It was just that machine pictured. I had lever 5 C collets , and chucks . I don't remember the model , but it had variable speed with a crank in front Reeves drive . I do remember it never let me down or didn't have power. Quiet too, with belt drive.


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## projectnut (Dec 9, 2017)

Sheldon's were originally made in their factory on Cottage Ave. in Chicago.  They later moved to Knox Ave. They had a Customer support division in Fremont Ohio.  The company later became a division of  National Acme Company in Cleveland.  National Acme went out of business in 1999 or 2000.

John Knox of the Yahoo Sheldon Lathe Group has a Word document with a brief history of the company and his employment with them.  It's under the "Files" section on the website.  

As for a trailer to transport it I would look for a drop bed equipment trailer.  They are available from many rental chains like Sunbelt Rentals.

They have 3 different sizes available.  Here's a link to their middle sized one:
https://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equi...0140/6ft-x-10ft-lift-bed-single-axle-trailer/

United Rentals also has a couple sizes available:
https://www.unitedrentals.com/marke...ilers/trailer-equipment-double-axle-special#/

Be sure to call ahead wherever you want to rent.  These trailers are quite popular so it may take a week or two to get one lined up.


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## 4GSR (Dec 9, 2017)

I've owned two Sheldon lathes over the years.  They are good machines, nothing on them you can't fix yourself.  Look at the ways and see if they are harden and ground.  Serial number is stamped between the front ways at the tailstock end of the bed.  I agree with diane, this one is a newer one.  Hopefully not too molested.  Most of the repair parts available from B & K can easily be made if needed.  And there's many of us here that are willing to help you out on any repairs including myself.  Ken


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## ThunderDog (Dec 9, 2017)

Yeah, I'm primed to get this thing.  4gsr, you've helped me before and maybe you could answer another ultra rookie question. How does one identify that they are hardened and ground?  Surely, not with a stroke of a file, right?  I just put my newbieness on full display.


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## Dave Paine (Dec 9, 2017)

On the Southbend there is an additional nameplate "Flame hardened" which I have on my Heavy 10.


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## 4GSR (Dec 9, 2017)

ThunderDog said:


> Yeah, I'm primed to get this thing.  4gsr, you've helped me before and maybe you could answer another ultra rookie question. How does one identify that they are hardened and ground?  Surely, not with a stroke of a file, right?  I just put my newbieness on full display.


My last Sheldon I bought, I did a file test on the bed, well, it was after I bought it.  Unfortunately, Sheldon did not put a label on the bed indicating it was hard like some of the other lathe manufactures did.  
Best way to tell of it is harden is to look for scoring marks or drag marks on the way surfaces.  If none, and they feel smooth without any gouges either, they are more than likely harden.  Look for ground surfaces at each end of the bed, another indication it is harden.  I would say, most later Sheldon's were sold with harden ways. 

Ken


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## ThunderDog (Dec 10, 2017)

Hi all,

Got to check it out this morning.  It was a little annoying to show up and the seller drops the bomb on me that somebody else was ahead of me to look at the Sheldon, rather than what I was told over the phone. Regardless, I'll keep my fingers crossed that the other buyer passes it up.

Staying positive I'll share what I saw.
It has the 1 3/8" spindle bore, 56" bed, everything turns free, it has one broken tooth on the small gear of the spindle(Not the bull gear).  It was really dark in the warehouse but from what I could see the ways looked good. That doesn't really mean much, but there were no real signs of any crashes or dropped parts onto the ways.  It had some tags as property of a Pennsylvania school district.  To me, that is promising because the amount of time in use is probably much lower than a business that would put alot more mileage on it.  Ok, enough rambling take a look at the pics.


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## Dabbler (Dec 10, 2017)

it looks like a great buy, even at a higher price.


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## projectnut (Dec 10, 2017)

The gearing in the first picture, and the thread cutting gearing are identical to my MW-56-P.  M is the type of lathe, W is the type of drive (Worthington), 56 is the bed length, and P indicates it has a pedestal base.  The drive in the cabinet is a bit different.  The good news is all the gears for the top end are likely still available from Bourn & Koch.  I hope you'll get it.  They are nice machines.

As for whether or not the ways are hardened, according to John Knox Sheldon didn't start "intentionally" hardening them until the 1960's.  Before that it was a hit or miss situation.  They were all heat treated to some extent then hardness tested. Those that were above a certain Rockwell number (can't remember the number) were sold as machines with hardened ways.  The only way you would know they were hardened is from the original inspection sheet and bill of sale.

The ways on my machine are hardened, but I only found that out because the previous owner sent the bed out to be reground.  There were no identifying marks from the factory to indicate whether or not they were hardened.

You can get more information from John on the Sheldon Lathe Website.


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## 4GSR (Dec 10, 2017)

My serial number book says it was born around 1954-1955.  For S/N 16433.  Looks to be in very nice condition.  Very good chance it has harden & ground ways.  Personally, I prefer this motor headstock arrangement, where you change speeds by moving the belt over to the next step on the sheave instead of the old Worthington drive.  My 15" lathe was that way.  It now has only one sheave, no steps and is run by a VFD.  Nice!!  Hope you get it.  Ken


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## ThunderDog (Dec 11, 2017)

Santa called me and said I can pick up my new lathe this coming weekend!!  
If you can't tell I'm having a hard time trying NOT to smile.
My dad is going to help me get this one, so wish us luck.


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## woodchucker (Dec 11, 2017)

ThunderDog said:


> Santa called me and said I can pick up my new lathe this coming weekend!!
> If you can't tell I'm having a hard time trying NOT to smile.
> My dad is going to help me get this one, so wish us luck.



Bring an engine crane, and some wood. and don't strap the lead screw.
Great news.


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## projectnut (Dec 11, 2017)

I have a little different Worthington drive than the earlier style.  rather than using the walking stick mine has a gear motor to change the sheave configuration.  It also came with a mechanical tachometer to allow precise speed settings.  The mechanical tach is long gone and has been replaced by a digital one.  Personally I prefer the push button speed change to belt or gear changes.  It can be done on the fly similar to using a VFD.

Here are a few pictures of the machine and drive.  Note the drive chain is loose.  I was in the process of properly positioning the sprockets.  In the second picture on the control station the buttons from left to right on the top row are:  Reverse, Forward, Stop.  The two on the bottom row from left to right are: Slow, and Fast.  To change speeds you hold either the fast or slow button until the desired speed is reached, then release.


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## projectnut (Dec 11, 2017)

Great news.  We moved my machine to the drop deck trailer on a pair of furniture dollies.  The published weight is 1650 lbs.  Once on the trailer we blocked it and tied it down with 2" cargo straps.  I unloaded it myself at home by slightly raising it and rolling it on a series of round stock rods.

Just a note, I did not pull the trailer with the Jeep.  The trailer and lathe weigh about 3,800 lbs.  I only used the Jeep to position the trailer in the garage door opening.  Being the Jeep is much shorter than the truck I could make the right angle into the garage without driving over the lawn.


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## Dabbler (Dec 11, 2017)

What a find!  Congratulations!


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## larry4406 (Dec 11, 2017)

Thunderdog - congrats!

Projectnut - I have never seen a drop deck trailer!  That is so cool!  Is it a commercial shop made trailer or a home brew?


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## projectnut (Dec 11, 2017)

larry4406 said:


> Thunderdog - congrats!
> 
> Projectnut - I have never seen a drop deck trailer!  That is so cool!  Is it a commercial shop made trailer or a home brew?



It's a commercially built trailer especially for this type of work.  Most are dual axle and have a capacity (depending on size) from 7,000 lbs. to 12,000 lbs.  This one came from a local rental company (A to Z Rentals).  They are available from Sunbelt Rentals, United Rentals, and other companies that specialize in construction equipment rentals.  If you need one you'll probably have to reserve it in advance.  I tried both Sunbelt and United first and they were reserved more than a month out.  I just happened to get lucky wit A to Z.  Someone returned it early and it wasn't scheduled out until the next week.  Had I not called at the exact time I did it would have been a 2 week wait.

Here are a couple pictures of it in the travel position.  It has a battery that powers an electric motor attached to a hydraulic pump.  You can barely see the hydraulic ram on top of the trailer tongue that raises and lowers the bed.


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## ThunderDog (Dec 11, 2017)

projectnut said:


> It's a commercially built trailer especially for this type of work.  Most are dual axle and have a capacity (depending on size) from 7,000 lbs. to 12,000 lbs.  This one came from a local rental company (A to Z Rentals).  They are available from Sunbelt Rentals, United Rentals, and other companies that specialize in construction equipment rentals.  If you need one you'll probably have to reserve it in advance.  I tried both Sunbelt and United first and they were reserved more than a month out.  I just happened to get lucky wit A to Z.  Someone returned it early and it wasn't scheduled out until the next week.  Had I not called at the exact time I did it would have been a 2 week wait.
> 
> Here are a couple pictures of it in the travel position.  It has a battery that powers an electric motor attached to a hydraulic pump.  You can barely see the hydraulic ram on top of the trailer tongue that raises and lowers the bed.


A buddy of mine (too far away to borrow) has one that he uses for his motorcycles.  They look super handy in a case like moving machinery.


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## Lordbeezer (Dec 16, 2017)

I have a extra bed if yours has a lot of wear


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## ThunderDog (Dec 16, 2017)

The Sheldon has landed!!!
My dad and I had a couple false starts getting it off the trailer, but once we quadruple checked everything it came off the trailer with a come-along a few clicks at a time.  Some more pics for ya.


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## larry4406 (Dec 17, 2017)

Let the restoration rabbit hole begin....


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## ThunderDog (Dec 18, 2017)

larry4406, yup!!
We had family visiting yesterday and the moment they all left I slipped out to the garage and immediately tore down the tailstock and compound.  

Quick survey question:
When you guys use Citrus Strip or aircraft paint remover products I'm just curious how many of you dunk the part or wash the part with water.  I go back and forth on that idea because of flash rust and then a once over with 0000 steel wool.  I guess there is no real way around it without picking a poison. Either use water for fast clean up/flashing or using a gazillion dry paper towels to thoroughly wipe the part.  I guess I'm having my Atlas mill rebuild nightmares.


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## Dave Paine (Dec 18, 2017)

My experience with citrus strip is small items like a hand bench plane.   I do not dunk, but often wash the parts after scraping with water.   Some castings flash rust faster than others.   My flash rust has been easy to remove with e.g., scotchbrite pad and WD-40.


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## larry4406 (Dec 18, 2017)

Just curious, did you try to run it all before tearing into it?


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## woodchucker (Dec 18, 2017)

I use scotchbrite not steel wool. Steel wool leaves little wires that may not be seen and may damage a bearing , a journal.
I scrape with a scraper and then scotchbrite.
I don't use water, I wear gloves and use paint thinner to cleanup. The paint thinner gets rid of stuff and cleans, and prevents the flash rust.
I also on one machine used a large cooker, mixed up TSP and boiled the parts in there. It was the easiest way to remove and clean parts. I had to spray with WD40 or dunk in Paint Thinner after to prevent the rust. 
Tearing  a machine down to me is the best way to get to know a machine. It also ensures you don't have a small problem that will turn into a big one. 
Good luck.


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## Bob Korves (Dec 19, 2017)

Steel wool also embeds in the surface and will rust later on.


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## ThunderDog (Dec 19, 2017)

larry4406 said:


> Just curious, did you try to run it all before tearing into it?


Why would I do that?  Just kidding.  I guess I'm more of a disassemble it, learn about how it works, clean it up, and run it type of person.

Bob, your point is definitely noted.  To be clear, I don't use steel wool on any bearing surfaces.  Still, those fibers are something I know I should be aware of during cleaning.


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## Uncle Buck (Dec 19, 2017)

WOW, what a screaming deal you got! CONGRATULATIONS!


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## ThunderDog (Dec 24, 2017)

UPDATE:  Playing with Santa's gift to me.

Well, this machine was also owned by the Department of Defense.  Multiple tags found under the crud.  The brass nut on the cross slide was replaced at some point, because the old one was in one of the drawers and there are wrench marks on the cross feed bushing.
The friction knurl has been cranked on more than once, to the point that one of the thrust washers had indents from the bearing.
Regardless, the clean up is going relatively well.  I got sick of CitrusStrip and switch back to an electrolysis bath.  Even the paint is coming off with relative ease.


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## Terrywerm (Dec 24, 2017)

Looking very nice so far, Thunder Dog. You're on a roll!


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## Silverbullet (Dec 24, 2017)

I had the same lathe many years ago. Your going to really love using it. My only wish if I could get mine back . But young and dumb can't be changed.


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## Hukshawn (Dec 24, 2017)

Wow. Nice lathe! Great price.


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## ThunderDog (Dec 26, 2017)

Keepin' it movin'!!





I have two questions:
There is a spring pin in a blind hole that I need to remove.  Any suggestions?? Pic below:




Second, can the headstock be completely removed without fear of losing the alignment with the bed?  It does register with the Vee-ways.  I'm guessing, yes.


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## woodchucker (Dec 26, 2017)

dose not make sense to use blind holes as you can't remove them easily, and machinery should be repairable.
Ok, when you say spring pin? Are you saying roll pin, as that does not look like a roll pin. If it is a roll pin, I have used a screw to remove a roll pin. I ground the screw to a taper and screwed it in and pulled on the screw. It was lucky to get a bite into a hardened roll pin. You may be lucky too.


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## ThunderDog (Dec 26, 2017)

Original documentation calls it a spring pin.  I call them roll pins, regardless this one is not hardened.  I agree that blind hole in this case seems dumb, but then again what do I know. I pulled the whole shaft out of the machine and it still doesn't make sense why not use a flat with set screws.  Oh, well, I'll attack this one tomorrow.


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## Dave Paine (Dec 27, 2017)

I have seen the style of pin called roll pin, spring pin, torsion pin.   Perhaps other names I do not recall.

MrPete222 had a video recently where he was replacing a handle on a drill press and was cursing the manufacturer for installing a pin in a blind hole.

This was likely some cost saving short cut.   Bad decision in my view.

If not hardened you should be able to drill out.


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## woodchucker (Dec 27, 2017)

Dave Paine said:


> I have seen the style of pin called roll pin, spring pin, torsion pin.   Perhaps other names I do not recall.
> 
> MrPete222 had a video recently where he was replacing a handle on a drill press and was cursing the manufacturer for installing a pin in a blind hole.
> 
> ...


The problem with drilling some roll pins out, is the split grabs the point edges and breaks the bit. So it might be a good idea to just slightly round the outer edges to prevent the bit from breaking when it hits them. So they won't dig in.


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## larry4406 (Dec 27, 2017)

Tap the inside of the roll pin as deep as you can, then thread in a bolt with a reduced diameter end to get past where the tap quit and bottom out. Should be useful to jack the pin out. Worked for me once.


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## Hukshawn (Dec 27, 2017)

For some reason I’m really interested in this lathe. I can’t wait to see more.


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## ThunderDog (Dec 28, 2017)

Hukshawn said:


> For some reason I’m really interested in this lathe. I can’t wait to see more.


Well, since there is interest I'll share a little more.
Headstock has been completely stripped. Then it took a bath in plain boiling water with a seriously deep scrubbing, followed immediately with an air compressor.
First coat of paint has been applied. Spindle has been wiped down and all parts oiled.
It doesn't look like much, but there has been a ton of scrubbing to get to this point.


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## Hukshawn (Dec 28, 2017)

Looks amazing!


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## Hukshawn (Dec 31, 2017)

More!


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## ThunderDog (Jan 1, 2018)

Well, a bad stomach bug made the rounds for everybody in our house so things came to a halt for a few days.
Regardless, the endless grease and grime scrubbing on the lathe is nearing completion.  The motor/pulleys are caked with heavy grease.  Here is where things stand at this point:


Moments after wrestling the motor and pulley arrangement out from under the cabinet. Motor is 1hp 3amp 3phase.  Looking to get a GS2 or GS3 vfd from automationdirect.  Thoughts on the vfd would greatly be appreciated.


First coat of paint, do you see that really bent threaded rod?  One of two things I have to address on the entire machine.  Not bad thus far.


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## Hukshawn (Jan 2, 2018)

Jebas cripes! I’ve been sick as a dog for two days now too! Happy new year, indeed... spent the day and night hugging the throne. 

How’s the bed wear? Anything noticeable? 
I can’t offer anything on the vfd’s but the link belts is a handy addition. I can say tho, having changed my lathe to dc, the variable speed control is prettttty handy.


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## ThunderDog (Jan 2, 2018)

Hukshawn said:


> Jebas cripes! I’ve been sick as a dog for two days now too! Happy new year, indeed... spent the day and night hugging the throne.
> 
> How’s the bed wear? Anything noticeable?
> I can’t offer anything on the vfd’s but the link belts is a handy addition. I can say tho, having changed my lathe to dc, the variable speed control is prettttty handy.


I'll check everything after paint is done and I move it into the final resting place.  Being bolted to 4x4's at the moment will probably give me a false reading.  Regarding any damage to the bed ways, it looks fine.  There are typical knicks near the headstock for a machine of this age, but overall it's not bad.


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## Dabbler (Jan 2, 2018)

Nice work!  I expect it will run as beautifully as it looks!


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## Dave Paine (Jan 2, 2018)

Nice progress on the lathe.

The GS2 VFD has similar design to my TECO VFD, power in at the top and power out to the motor at the bottom.    Designed to be installed in a NEMA enclosure.    If I upgrade my milling machine to 3 phase and VFD I will get a design with power in/out at the bottom and a box is NEMA rated so no other enclosure needed.

I do not know the default for power on.   My TECO displays "60" which is 60 Hz so the motor runs at normal speed.    Other VFDs display "0" which means the motor will not run since 0 Hz so you may need to rotate the potentiometer to get to a frequency which will have the motor run.

You can either use the display to set FWD or REV and not wire up the drum switch, or you can run 24V wires to the drum switch and appropriate terminals in the VFD, but do not run the power feed wires through the drum switch then to the VFD.   The VFD needs to be handling turning the motor on and off.


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## ThunderDog (Jan 9, 2018)

Just wanted to share an update:

Used some 1.5" pipe to move the lathe into the final resting place.  Still need to paint the cabinet doors(not pictured).  Built some adjusting feet without a lathe.(flat bar stock, some drilling, and some tapping)  Bought a Starrett 98 level, waiting on it before I reassemble, so I can have a little fun checking for twist.  I will turn a "dumbbell" as per the South Bend book, "How to run a lathe" and check for twist once it is put back together.  Again, I just want to have some fun with the level. 



I also have my 36" straight edge that I want to do some examining of the ways.  I have been reading up on Connelly's book for the proper method of using such tools and I'm excited to post my process and really hope to hear back regarding what I'm doing right and wrong when using that tool.  My thought is that everybody wins when constructive feedback is provided for a process such as that.  I also worked on completing a King Way Alignment tool(80% complete) that I turned many months ago.  I have some vials/levels in mind from Geier-Bluhm and still need a bearing cup for the ball side of the tool.


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## jsh (Jan 15, 2018)

I have a Sheldon similar to yours. The cord for mine was undersized and too short.  I had to pull the motor off to get it rewired. I did not take the pulley assembly out but sure thought I may have to to get that blasted motor back in there. 
You got a heck of a buy in my book! I gave about five times that for mine, just are not that many around this area. At least when your looking for them. Week after I got the Sheldon, lathes fell out of the sky so it seemed. In ninty days I looked at no less than a half dozen more, all of about the same size, various makes and models. I had to use some self restraint twice, almost came home with another one. Seller squabbled over $50 and I would go no higher.
For what I got as a complete turn key set up I am happy.
About the only thing I did not get was a taper attachment. Suprised there was not one as it came out of a gunshop of original owner. I am the fourth owner. The second owner used it very little and then only on small work, it sat most of the time. Third owner had it several years with just some tinkering usage.
I almost painted mine up, then decided to leave it in its natural state, patina and character.
Look forward to more of your work.
Jeff


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## 34_40 (Jan 15, 2018)

ThunderDog said:


> Just wanted to share an update:  I also worked on completing a King Way Alignment tool(80% complete) that I turned many months ago.  I have some vials/levels in mind from Geier-Bluhm and still need a bearing cup for the ball side of the tool.
> View attachment 253933




I am very interested in seeing you complete this project.  I think I understand the concept(s) and it seems a quick reliable process to "square up" or verify the alignment of the ways.  Hope you continue it to completion.  Thanks.


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## ThunderDog (Jan 16, 2018)

Back together and ready to order a vfd and a tool post. Still need to finish the tags.


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## Dave Paine (Jan 16, 2018)

Wow, you got this cleaned, repainted and re-assembled in very short time.   Looks terrific.


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## Hukshawn (Jan 16, 2018)

Beautiful piece of machinery. Amazing job.


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## 34_40 (Jan 16, 2018)

times 3, this went quick!  And it looks great.


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## ThunderDog (Jan 16, 2018)

Ha!  I guess it helps that I had a week vacation to work on it since I brought it home. And, this is my fourth disassembly and cleanup of a machine.  I've developed a strategy of what works for me and how to organize the tear down/rebuild process.

I also took some video of my attempt of following Connelly's instructions for checking the flat ways with a straight edge. In my case, a straight edge that is shorter than the ways.  My short straight edge is 33". I'd like to share it, provided people would be interested. I guess it's ultra beginner stuff, but everytime I approach the topic it seems like such a cryptic thing that one is not allowed to go near or talk about.  I would like to use it as a learning platform and not viewed as me knowing what I'm talking about.


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## 34_40 (Jan 16, 2018)

Please do share the video. Many folks (like me) need exposure to all the concepts that we can find.


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## Bob Korves (Jan 16, 2018)

Connelly's book is not so much theory as it is practical operating techniques from mostly deceased men with dirty overalls.  That is a good thing.  At its best, machine tool reconditioning is labor intensive, expensive work.  Knowing how to do it right while also getting it finished to a high standard and also making money on the quoted work is part and parcel of what it is all about.

The straightedge technique of testing a lathe bed is only part of multi faceted approaches to getting the bed straight.  Connelly also talks of using taut wires and other methods of confirming the existing topography. 

There is no magic to this stuff, only understanding and pragmatism, and much of it is arcane and different than what we have been exposed to or what we might intuitively guess today.  That doesn't make it wrong, but it also doesn't make it current state of the art.  Machine Tool Reconditioning is a great view into the world of machine reconditioning circa 1955 when this old man was in kindergarten.  The topography has changed, and so have we, and so have the ways that machines are rehabbed, for better and for worse, but mostly just changing to fit the changing world.

We are all learning, or we are saying "whatever!"


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## Hukshawn (Jan 16, 2018)

Post it!


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## Bob Korves (Jan 16, 2018)

Hukshawn said:


> Post it!


Post what?


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## Hukshawn (Jan 16, 2018)

The video he took.


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## ThunderDog (Jan 17, 2018)

Bob Korves said:


> Connelly's book is not so much theory as it is practical operating techniques from mostly deceased men with dirty overalls.  That is a good thing.  At its best, machine tool reconditioning is labor intensive, expensive work.  Knowing how to do it right while also getting it finished to a high standard and also making money on the quoted work is part and parcel of what it is all about.
> 
> The straightedge technique of testing a lathe bed is only part of multi faceted approaches to getting the bed straight.  Connelly also talks of using taut wires and other methods of confirming the existing topography.



Agreed, there is definitely ALOT more to it than just checking some flat ways with a straight edge.
Connelly's text is excellent.

BEFORE YOU WATCH THE VIDEO BELOW:​My hope is that we can get a constructive dialogue going to further unlock Connelly's information for a knucklehead like myself and those interested in machine tool reconditioning.  This is only ONE aspect and attempt at checking the machine. There are a variety of other variables not discussed that are critical to creating a complete understanding of the current condition of the machine.  DO NOT USE THE VIDEO AS A GUIDE.  It is for the sake of conversation and better understanding. I'm under no impression that the content would be a guide to begin scraping. It's all in the spirit of learning and having some fun in the garage.

If you follow my Youtube channel, you will see that this is NOT published.  That means the only place to watch the video is through www.hobby-machinist.com.  It's like a backstage pass!!  The video is also not as refined in terms of editing, because I want to avoid omitting any mistakes or pitfalls that I may have induced during the process.


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## Bob Korves (Jan 17, 2018)

ThunderDog said:


> Agreed, there is definitely ALOT more to it than just checking some flat ways with a straight edge.
> Connelly's text is excellent.
> 
> BEFORE YOU WATCH THE VIDEO BELOW:​My hope is that we can get a constructive dialogue going to further unlock Connelly's information for a knucklehead like myself and those interested in machine tool reconditioning.  This is only ONE aspect and attempt at checking the machine. There are a variety of other variables not discussed that are critical to creating a complete understanding of the current condition of the machine.  DO NOT USE THE VIDEO AS A GUIDE.  It is for the sake of conversation and better understanding. I'm under no impression that the content would be a guide to begin scraping. It's all in the spirit of learning and having some fun in the garage.
> ...


My first question is about your straightedge.  Has it been checked against a KNOWN accurate reference surface?  The other issue is with the type of straightedge.  Yours has a very high aspect ratio, length divided by height.  That means that it is long and skinny, relatively.  If you look at a camelback straightedge, it has much more rigidity due to the lower aspect ratio.  Cast iron is pretty stable, but it definitely moves, temporarily with heat issues and permanently as internal stresses gradually work their way out.  It did not appear in the video that the straightedge has been scraped in since you got it.  If what I think I am seeing is correct, then you are using an unknown to calibrate an unknown, which is a hopeless task.  You can use a known flat and planar surface to check an unknown.  I think you can use your straightedge for doing this work, but it will have to be constantly reassessed to see if it is in at the moment.  Just a couple degrees of warmth on one side above the other will warp it, so try to have everything at the same temperature for doing any work with it, and don't hold the center portions with your hands.  Also, it needs to be checked against a surface plate that is in current calibration so you know its past and present, otherwise it becomes yet another unknown, further confusing the results.  Good on you for posting this work and your video!  There are too many quiet YouTube demonstrations of beautiful scraping work with absolutely no comments on how it was done.  "Magic happens here" is about all we can glean from them.

And please know that I am NOT any sort of expert on this, far, far from it.  I am also trying to learn these dying arts and skills.  I will be attending a Richard King scraping class at the end of March, and hopefully that will help.  Richard is about the only one still teaching this craft publicly in the world, and he keeps talking about retiring.  Five days of classroom along with hands on work is not a lot, and it is not cheap.  I will be paying VERY close attention.  Ulma Doctor has been to one of Richard's classes and has been my mentor for learning whatever few skills I have.  Thanks, Mike!  Some of us need to get this stuff figured out before all the real pros are gone.


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## ThunderDog (Jan 17, 2018)

Thank you Bob.

I too, really want to take Mr. King' s class.  I need to see if/when he will be near the mid-Atlantic.
The straight edge is not known regarding current condition. I do have a 40" camelback and an 18"x36" cast iron surface plate. I will do some checks regarding the inspection tools and surface plate on hand. Perhaps a video exploration of Sec.9.11 and Sec.9.12.?


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## ConValSam (Jan 17, 2018)

Great stuff, ThunderDog!  Thanks for the ride along.

I wonder if the difference in the wear pattern from front to back is a sign of a previous setup that did NOT account for bed twist.  As the carriage moved along the bed, its relative force on each side would change as it traversed the twist.


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## 34_40 (Jan 17, 2018)

Great video! While I personally don't think I'll be chasing the kind of accuracy that a hand scraping job can achieve, Like you it's just good to have the knowledge of where the wear is located / how to measure for it and how to remove any twisting / bending in those ways. Like your other videos - always an entertaining and learning experience.  

You are definitely one of the "good guys" of this site. The right attitude and approach, and as always, thanks for posting


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## ThunderDog (Jan 18, 2018)

ConValSam said:


> Great stuff, ThunderDog!  Thanks for ride along.
> 
> I wonder if the difference in the wear pattern from front to back is a sign of a previous setup that did NOT account for bed twist.  As the carriage moved along the bed, its relative force on each side would change as it traversed the twist.



I was thinking the same thing.  The machine has lived a life working for the government, then a school district, then sold and sat, and now me.  Tough to know for sure, but it seems like twist may have not been accounted for at some point.


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## C-Bag (Jan 18, 2018)

Great video. I appreciate your hard work and sharing your thought process. Having also read the Connoly book I would have been thinking along the same lines. But I had the same question as Bob about the straight edge as you were putting the blue to it at the beginning of the vid. The Connoly book has made me paranoid of all my metrology tools as they are all used and I spend more time proofing them than I ever would have before reading it. Starting with my granite surface plate that was inspected shortly before I bought it used. 

I would think that straight edge, if proven to be accurate, would be great for checking dovetails. And would be improved by putting some wooden handles on the ends like I've seen some done to keep from handling and heating/warping it. If warped, it would be a wonderful candidate to be scrapped in.

I'm curious why you went with this straight edge instead of your camelback? I truly am just curious, not judging. I'm trying to learn this by reading and watching vids. I've done a couple of small things and realize I've got a long way to go. I was most impressed by Wes Johnson's scraping vid as it was so straight forward and workmanlike.


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## ThunderDog (Jan 18, 2018)

C-Bag, how does that saying go? "The most used tools are the ones' you can reach?"  The straight edge is hung on a very strong hook, easily accessible.  The camelback and cast iron plate are kept stored on a purpose built shelf that is under my workbench, post #11 of this thread.  At the time, the bench was covered with the parts to the lathe drying from paint. 
Laziness to go digging is a poor excuse.

Everybody's input here has me really excited to get all of this stuff back out and do some exploration. 

I even gave Richard King a phone call yesterday and we spoke for some time about where he will be teaching classes this year.  He was very easy to talk to and offered to forward my contact info. along to a previous student in the Maryland area.


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## ThunderDog (Feb 5, 2018)

UPDATE:  It's up and running!!

VFD installed, going to order an operator switch station.  Still reading up on all of the features.

First project is to make a proper chuck key.   All I have right now is a piece of square stock that I turn with an adjustable wrench.


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## C-Bag (Feb 5, 2018)

Good luck with the VFD. After hearing what one of the guys on YouTube went through on his I think I'd have a better chance of undstanding a corporate legal contract! 

So you've decided after talking to Richard King to just use it as is for a while and get a feel for what it needs?


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## ThunderDog (Feb 5, 2018)

C-Bag said:


> Good luck with the VFD. After hearing what one of the guys on YouTube went through on his I think I'd have a better chance of undstanding a corporate legal contract!
> 
> So you've decided after talking to Richard King to just use it as is for a while and get a feel for what it needs?



The VFD is easy to setup, but I know there is more that can be utilized from it.
The scraping and measurement situation is not over for me.  I've been looking around for a place to take or have someone come out to check the surface plate.  Once that is verified, I will proceed with more scraping.  In the meantime, I just bought all of the articles on scraping from Home Shop Machinist off ebay for a good price.  I'm just looking for more opportunity to be exposed to the topic.


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