# Can This Motor Rotation Be Reversed?



## Uglydog (Sep 24, 2016)

Not sure if you elec gurus need more data.
Please let me know.
She powers my Whipp shaper. 
While I'm getting a nice finish. I'm told it would even be a better finish if I change the rotation.
Currently it cuts faster than she retracts.
Shes wired for 220v 1ph.

Thank you!
Daryl
MN


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## JimDawson (Sep 24, 2016)

It looks like you would have to go inside and bring out the start windings to reverse that motor.

I'm not sure reversing the rotation would change the forward/reverse stroke speed on a shaper.  Try rolling it through by hand and see if that actually does it.  It's been about 45 years since I've had my hands on a shaper, but I'm remembering that is a function of the mechanics.


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## talvare (Sep 24, 2016)

Reversing motor rotation on a shaper will in fact change the forward/reverse stroke speed (at least it did on mine). I reversed mine by turning the motor around and driving the left end of the jack shaft instead of the right end. My set-up just happened to have enough shaft length to do that.
Another option is to disassemble the motor and turn the stator end for end. You just need to make sure that when you do this that the rotor bars still align with the stator bars as they did before the stator reversal.

Ted


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## John Hasler (Sep 24, 2016)

JimDawson said:


> It looks like you would have to go inside and bring out the start windings to reverse that motor.
> 
> I'm not sure reversing the rotation would change the forward/reverse stroke speed on a shaper.  Try rolling it through by hand and see if that actually does it.  It's been about 45 years since I've had my hands on a shaper, but I'm remembering that is a function of the mechanics.


Reversing the rotation will change the forward/reverse stroke speed on a shaper if it uses a Whitworth linkage as most do.   Here's a link: http://www.robotpark.com/academy/specialized-mechanisms-whitworth-quick-return-mechanism-51029/


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## JimDawson (Sep 24, 2016)

I love H-M, somebody always has the CORRECT answer!


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## Uglydog (Sep 24, 2016)

Thank you all.
Very helpful.
Especially the animation link!
Now.... how do I make the change? Or, is there an additional way to adjust the ram/stroke.
Thinking???

Daryl
MN


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## Eddyde (Sep 24, 2016)

If I'm following this correctly, is the object of reversal to get a fast cut stroke and slow return? If so, wouldn't that decrease the power available to push the cutting tool?


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## Dave Smith (Sep 24, 2016)

Eddyde said:


> If I'm following this correctly, is the object of reversal to get a fast cut stroke and slow return? If so, wouldn't that decrease the power available to push the cutting tool?


You are right about the power loss ----that is why Daryl is wanting to reverse to get a slower cutting stroke and faster return---Dave


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## Dave Smith (Sep 24, 2016)

Uglydog said:


> Thank you all.
> Very helpful.
> Especially the animation link!
> Now.... how do I make the change? Or, is there an additional way to adjust the ram/stroke.
> ...


Daryl---I would look for another motor with the correct rotation or a  reversible rotation motor to solve your problem---do you know what the correct rpm to the shaper is---if not--you can speed it up or down with pulleys after you get the correct rotation---Dave


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## Uglydog (Sep 24, 2016)

Dave Smith said:


> Daryl---I would look for another motor with the correct rotation or a  reversible rotation motor to solve your problem---do you know what the correct rpm to the shaper is---if not--you can speed it up or down with pulleys after you get the correct rotation---Dave



Dave Smith, thank you for your ongoing mentorship!
Given the animations, I spent some more time with her today. Turning her over by hand and watching the motion of the scotch yoke. Forward/Reverse interesting stuff!
This motor has V belts which drive a 4 speed transmission. You may recall the the two step flat belt pulley I turned to drive the flat belt on the shaper. A jack shaft isn't going to fit well. With HM threads help I've learned  to replace motor bearings, I'm insecure about trying to flip the stator.

A new motor is likely the better option.
She makes for a nice finish as is. However, the idea that it might do even better is great.
The downside is that I've got a lead on a GE universal, if she has the power down-feed clapper it might be hard to turn down. 
Which means I might make this one available.
Regardless, I want to get the stroke right!!

Daryl
MN


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## Uglydog (Sep 25, 2016)

Motor replacement selection thread continued here:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/shaper-motor-selection.50611/

Daryl
MN


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## Bob Korves (Sep 25, 2016)

Is it incorrect now, or are trying to change it to cut on the pull stroke, ala Stefan Gotteswinter?  Or perhaps both?




   Great channel, by the way...


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## Uglydog (Sep 25, 2016)

Bob Korves,
Appropriate question.
It's my intent to cut on the push stroke as that is supposedly how it was designed.
The pull stroke shapers presumably have advantages but require a different grind and I'm guessing a different clapper.
As it will need to lift on the opposite side of the stroke. 

Daryl
MN


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## Ulma Doctor (Sep 25, 2016)

the clapper box is reversed action, in a pull situation


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## Uglydog (Sep 25, 2016)

It's my understanding that there might also be some changes in ram design.
But, I'm not clear on why that would be necessary.

Daryl
MN


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## Ulma Doctor (Sep 25, 2016)

Uglydog said:


> It's my understanding that there might also be some changes in ram design.
> But, I'm not clear on why that would be necessary.
> 
> Daryl
> MN


the ram would stay the same, the motion is the same regardless of push or pull
the clapper box is all that Stefan Gottswinter changes out to make his GACK20 go from push to pull cutting
on the gack20 it's a simple operation
Here is a link to plans
http://gtwr.de/ressources/res_gack_rueckwaertshobelkopf/index.html

i'm sure you could make a similar unit for your uses


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## John Hasler (Sep 25, 2016)

Uglydog said:


> It's my understanding that there might also be some changes in ram design.
> But, I'm not clear on why that would be necessary.
> 
> Daryl
> MN


On some shapers some parts of the linkage may be designed to support more force when cutting then when returning.  The table might also not be as stiff when the machine is operated in the opposite direction to the one it was designed for.


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## Ulma Doctor (Sep 25, 2016)

rams and mechanisms tend to deflect more become weaker the farther they are extended,
when you are pulling, the forces are directed to the machine and to the greatest support of the ram.
when pushing, deflection increases as the ram extends
wear will exaggerate the condition


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## Tony Wells (Sep 26, 2016)

They are designed to cut on the forward stroke, and the return stroke is faster simply because it should be, it's time wasted not cutting, and because the mechanism allows for it. In fact it necessitates it.


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