# Atlas 101.21200 Non Restoration



## kopcicle (Apr 10, 2022)

That's all you get for now. I'll have other photos later. 
I obsess so bear with me , or don't. 
I'm rnon-restoring a Craftsman 101.212 to perfect working order. It will remain ugly as sin.


The 101.00 Atlas did indeed have tapered roller bearings.
The 101.212 uses 6305 deep groove ball bearings
the 10100 uses the 701-088 spindle
The 101.212 uses the 701-083 spindle
30305 Timken would accomplish the the swap but..
They are 18.250 mm wide
If you want 17mm wide use the 237 cone -233 cup  and shell out $2k for the pair.
The issue with the swap isn't the width however
How do you preload the bearings? The 701-083 spindle has no threaded preload nut .
Practical consideration is tale of the axial clearance of the 6305 you intend to use.

Now on to what I found inside. 


Filthy but nothing broken. I did have a minor hiccup in the F/R tumbler gears and lever. The detent and spring in the lever is irrevocably seized in place and one of the tumbler gears seized to the shaft and the rivet is turning in the plate. 
The lead screw is free, not bent or otherwise abused.


Even with the setscrews removed the collar would not budge. Finally forcing a putty knife between the gear and the collar started it moving. There was actually a whole previous evolution that I don't have pics for. 
The direct drive coupling , 141-030 had been attacked by flying monkeys with hammers , pliers and bad intent. 
The circlip retaining the direct drive coupling , 141-030, had somehow been peened into place by the same flying monkeys.
Once the mangled part in question had finally been removed from the shaft it was on to the woodruff key and some sort of age hardening shmoo that gave off an odor reminiscent of spoiled meat when heated. 
Now we are on to the removal of the 3950-14 spindle pulley assembly. 
Even after careful stoning of the spindle and somewhat haphazardly measuring the diameter of the spindle to make sure it hadn't put on weight or diameter over the years I proceeded to attempt to remove the  spindle pulley assembly.
The inner bushing stayed behind. 400gr sanding strip had to be applied to the spindle in order to remove the remaining bushing.
Now we're on to the spindle back gear. 
Keep in mind here that I had a large selection of prying and stabby things and little else for this operation.
You can get behind the gear somewhat with a large flat blade screw driver and rotate, stab, pry, repeat.
Being careful not to pry anywhere near the gear teeth and applying force through only the thickest portions of the headstock casting the bugger finally moved. Eventually this too stopped short of the end of the spindle and a bit more 400gr was used to reduce the diameter of the spindle further. 
Somewhere along the way I seemed to have missed the fact that bearings that appeared to be "Completely Knackered" had now taken on the aspect of perfectly serviceable bearings. I'll have to very closely take a look at the assembly to determine what Murphy snuck in on me.
Compared to all of this the removal of the spindle with the chuck side bearing still attached and it's subsequent removal is only the mater of an hour or so of alternating heating , cooling, swearing and tears. 

There is one more thing.



The aforementioned flying monkeys with hammers , pliers and bad intent had in fact caused the random disappearance of two teeth from the M6-68 pinion shaft. *Would anyone happen to know the DP and PA of this gear and the rack? *
I'm waiting on a few parts from Joel and some monkey repellent from the publishers of the Satanic Bible. 
I doubt I'll ever do the tapered roller bearing conversion unless I have to do a bunch of fine facing operations. 
Believe me, it is possible to the point of certainty  that you can set up a high frequency resonance in the axial plain of the spindle simply by banging the roller bearings back and forth. The noise is rich in harmonics which distinguishes it from ordinary high frequency tool chatter. 

All for now as the pizza is here and I have to ready to repel  flying monkeys with hammers , pliers and bad intent at a moment's notice 

Dennis


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## kopcicle (Apr 10, 2022)

Part Number 30305, Tapered Roller Bearings - TS (Tapered Single) Metric On The Timken Company
					

Browse Part Number 30305, Tapered Roller Bearings - TS (Tapered Single) Metric in the The Timken Company catalog including Part Number,Item Name,Description,Series,Cone Part Number,Cup Part Number,d - Bore,D - Cup Outer Diameter,B - Cone Width,C - Cu




					cad.timken.com
				












						Part Number 6305-2RS-C3, Deep Groove Ball Bearings (6000, 6200, 6300, 6400) On The Timken Company
					

Browse Part Number 6305-2RS-C3, Deep Groove Ball Bearings (6000, 6200, 6300, 6400) in the The Timken Company catalog including Part Number,Item Name,Description,UPC Code,Clearance,Bore Size d,Features,Bearing Type,Outside Diameter D,Outside Ring Widt




					cad.timken.com
				




Just in case you want to follow along at home or build a bridge just to drag a rope across.


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## markba633csi (Apr 10, 2022)

I have one of those too (Craftsman version) and never tried to take the spindle out.  Now I definitely won't. LOL
You're braver than me


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## matthewsx (Apr 11, 2022)

I had one of these and had to remove the spindle and replace the bearings.









						6205z bearings on MkII 6"
					

I would have expected under 0.0002" TIR with ABEC 5 bearings in there, John. What is the condition of the spindle taper?




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				












						Just added a 101.21200 to my shop out west
					

I've been suffering lathe withdrawals since my Seneca Falls Star 9" is 2000 miles away. I found this little guy on Craigslist, not the upgrade I've been hoping for but it should keep me busy for a little while.     She's rusty but the spindle turns smooth so hopefully just a clean-up and paint...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




John


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## cross thread (Apr 11, 2022)

Dennis , is this what you are after ?








						NEW FACTORY ATLAS CRAFTSMAN 6 INCH SWING LATHE GEAR CASE REPAIR KIT NEW  | eBay
					

NEW OEM FACTORY TRAVERSE GEAR CASE REPAIR KIT INCLUDES M6-102 M6-68 SHAFT AND PINION FOR THE M6-11 AND 3950-21 GEAR CASE ASSEMBLIES.



					www.ebay.com
				




Mark .


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## kopcicle (Apr 11, 2022)

cross thread said:


> Dennis , is this what you are after ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mark, that's the part. No offense to Joel but I'd prefer to get it elsewhere and let Joel get his money from some rich , needy fellow on ebay. There is sure to be someone out there that doesn't know .
It came to my notice some years back that if you are owned by one of these lathes you simply must have Joel in the rolodex. I've known Joel for several years now. He'd likely mortgage the parts I need  but business is business is business.  
On a side note, I have no way of determining the DP or PA of that gear and rack. If someone could find out for me ...


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## JPMacG (Apr 12, 2022)

Many parts for Atlas lathes are still available from Atlas/Clausing.  Their prices are usually reasonable, I think.  I suspect Joel buys some of his stuff from Clausing and marks it up.

Just give Clausing a call.  You will need to look up the part you need and know the Atlas part number when she asks.


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## kopcicle (Apr 14, 2022)

I kinda have Tom McNett on speed dial ;-)


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## kopcicle (Apr 17, 2022)

The search for the elusive 72052RS continues today. Preloading angular contact bearings will be easier than tapered roller bearings as the 3950 or 101.21200 doesn't have the threads or nut on the spindle that the 10100 does.

I don't see any spacer between the bearing and the spindle back gear although my assembly had a .040" washer between the gear and the bearing.
*Does anyone know if there is a spacer or washer between the bearing and the spindle back gear ?*
it was only as I was beating the spindle and bearings out of the headstock that I got the spindle to turn free. prior to the beat down the spindle felt like a box-o-rocks .
*Does anyone have the* *Atlas or Atlas-Craftsman 6" metal lathe armature mica undercutter . M6-510A ,  *preferably without my having to take out a mortgage? I'm thinking poor man's toolpost grinder .

The struggle is real  


​​


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## kopcicle (Apr 18, 2022)

So 6205 ball bearing  is a 7205 in angular contact bearings and 30205 is the tapered roller bearing .

At issue here is the much lighter preload that the angular contact bearings require compared to the tapered roller bearings. The 10100 has the tapered roller bearings and the 701-088 spindle.
The 3950 or 101.21200 (mine) uses the ball bearings and the 701-083 spindle.
I'll  save you the trouble of looking for my boggle. The 701-083 has no threads or nut to preload tapered roller bearings. However a stout wave washer placed between the spindle back gear(pg 17 ref #5 341-374) and the retaining collar(pg 17 ref #7 123-140) will be enough to preload the angular contact ball bearings.
Of course installation becomes a bit of a trick as you have to compress the assembly and then tighten the setscrews.

Yes , once I get the lathe operational I can make any damn spindle I want 

* You wouldn't happen to know where I could purchase any shot out, worn out .50 BMG barrels would ya ?
Hint , the spindle through hole isn't much bigger than 1/2" and there is enough material in the breach area to turn the shoulder and 1" 10TPI threads


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## kopcicle (May 20, 2022)

I'm still a little hung up on bearings. I have 7205 w/o seals and frankly don't care for the idea.
So the parts keep coming in.
The federal test indicator is a welcome addition.
The old skool Starrett base is personal preference. I detest mag bases around magnetic swarf.
The armature chucks are not only useful but an original Atlas accessory. Tom (Clausing) still has a few sets NOS.
The collet chuck comes for Joel. I think I've been over this before. Most do not get the 1" registration correct.
No , "the backing plate does(not)register on the threads." The backing plate registers on the shoulder and 1" diameter.
littlemachineshop.com gets it right. Carl Siechert understands. So just get the good backing plate or make your own. Today I'm un, re, de, modeling a room and nothing further to report other than we are well (mostly) and cantankerous as ever .

And so it goes...

​​


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## kopcicle (Jun 2, 2022)

VEVOR Rotary Table 6 in/152 mm 4-slot Horizontal Vertical Dividing Plates Precision Rotary Table, 360 Degrees For Milling Machine  | VEVOR US
					

Discover VEVOR Rotary Table 6 in/152 mm 4-slot Horizontal Vertical Dividing Plates Precision Rotary Table, 360 Degrees For Milling Machine, Vertical & Horizontal Design and Durable Casting Material at lowest price, 2days delivery, 30days returns.




					www.vevor.com
				




https://www.amazon.com/BestEquip-Dividing-Indexing-Milling-Machine/dp/B081YPVVK1

https://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/h7527_m.pdf

then all I need is a tailstock

next is the direct index trick 




Harold Hall.
https://www.homews.co.uk/page463.html Just wow.

https://www.amazon.com/Workshop-Techniques-G-H-Thomas/dp/1857611063
found a used copy for significantly less
G.H. Thomas is yet another one.

machine tool castings
https://www.martinmodel.com/collections/machine-tools-casting-set/machine-tools-casting-set

http://mlatoolbox.com/ I'd be a little surprised if you didn't know this one.

I'm a couple days out from any significant progress. I got put on hold for a bit and back to it here in a few days. 
At least it isn't my health this time. It's just timing , priorities, parts, Mom, Girl, Dog, house, USPS, UPS,FedEX, DHL...

So while I am waiting on waiting for to wait some more I thought I'd offer a sample of my browser history. 
G.H. Thomas is known to many through his collaboration with Hemingway kits. To call Thomas detail oriented would be either an understatement or a slight. I have several of his publications. If you don't, then you don't know. 

Harold Hall may not be known as well but his imagination, body of work, and abilities are on the order of artisans of old. His simple solutions to complex problems come as one epiphany after another as you go through his limited videos and extensive publications.   

Back to waiting ...


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## kopcicle (Jun 6, 2022)

FAG/Schaeffler 7205-B-XL-2RS-TVP Angular Contact Ball Bearing Sealed


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## kopcicle (Jun 27, 2022)

it's getting there. I do occasionally have to combat the damage done by flying monkeys with hammers. I'm really too tired to elaborate but just imagine every screw, every nut, every bushing, every and I mean every gear tooth needing attention. At some point in this machines life it had been attacked by the four horsemen apocalypse armed with every manner of the wrong tool. 

I prefer to embrace positive thinking. It's getting there.


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## kopcicle (Jun 27, 2022)

Okay , buckle up , short sharp rant. 

So in no particular order I have 
purchased and shipped a lathe 1/3 of the way across the country
I have struggled with the deterioration due to years of neglect.
I have exorcised the wanton destruction of flying monkeys with hammers. 
I sourced obsolete and discontinued parts from the likes of mymachineshop.net and littlemachineshop.com
Someone left the side door open at practical machinist and was able to post WTB .
An ebay seller I've known for years says "does this look familiar?" and I had new half nuts. 
Clausing. If you ever speak with Brian or Tom about old inventory thank them for being there. 
Help has arrived in the form of anonymous packages containing everything from HSS to bearings, to random pieces of stock. I'll just say Thank You and quit wondering who you are  
I have limited tools
I'm starting over, at 65. with an eons old 6" metal lathe. 

And all this one facebook keyboard warrior can say is 
"I was taught to never place anything on the ways" 
Then proceeds to school me on care and feeding of machinery in general, lathes specifically and my lathe in particular. 

The reply went like this. 

It's not your lathe. It's my lathe.
If it were your lathe you could happily restore it to museum quality non functional beauty. 
I intend to use the hell out of this lathe once it's functional and quite possibly never pretty. 
If your intent is to demean, denigrate, deride and "mansplain" care and feeding of a lathe to a retired millwright then have at it , somewhere else, to someone else, some other time.

The technical division of the mad Irish army made the next week of internet connectivity exceedingly difficult for this mutt. I have some very interesting family and friends. 

Look , I have never, ever, demeaned or derided anyone's work. If I can't stand to look at it I just don't. 
I can see potential beauty where someone else sees scrap. 
I possibly didn't respond well to criticism in this case. 
I didn't enjoy being taken to school by a 30 something keyboard warrior. 
But he's right. 
Good shop practices are good shop practices, then, now, and always. 
If he had stopped there without a near copy and paste from NavPubDoc, MM & MR 3-2 intro to machine practices I wouldn't be typing this wall of text. 

In conclusion, don't leave ANYTHING on the ways or gawd almighty will kill a kitten.
And the next time you're confronted by some invasive species of keyboard warrior, let it go. Your time is far better spent working on or with your machines. 

:EOR


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## matthewsx (Jun 27, 2022)

Sounds like FB to me. Stopped going there years ago and am happier for it.


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## kopcicle (Jul 2, 2022)

Okay , it runs. but wait there's more.
@gggGary , thanks for part of the solution.
The belt is crap or has a couple of flat spots on it. Back off the tension so far you can't put a tool into aluminum and it runs fine. give it any tension at all and it's a bucking bronco.
Interlude for some good news. The time I spent on the gears paid off. There was so much crud in the root that there was no way to get close to a mesh. Razor blade, caustic chemicals, miniature files, multiple teeth breech, wash, rinse, repeat.
The gear train is nearly silent.
More good news. No detectable axial or radial slop, none, and very little heating.
Okay back to the flying monkeys with hammers.
The spindle may have near zero detectable run out between the bearing surfaces but the register for the chuck is messed up. Not only that the 2MT taper in the spindle is corroded.
A super sharp piece of 5% cobalt HSS reestablished the face but there is little that can be done for the 1.375 outer diameter. Neither of the chucks I have make use of the specified 1.000" dia register so I have to make do with the face .  I'll include the pdf.
It appears I have a ways to go before I have a tool I can use. For those of you that might suggest...
No, I could turn between centers right now if I took the taper out but that gets old real fast.
I'll suss out the damaged 2MT in the spindle bore this weekend. The reamers are on the way.
Then I have to decide which center to go with, the register (and which chuck, 4 jaw , duh) or the spindle ID .
it's 11:45 pip emma out here on the left coast. I've done enough damage for one day.
Now where was the flying monkey repellent ?


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## kopcicle (Jul 4, 2022)

The reamer set I received from the AmaZombies. looks good. 
I tied the roughing an finish back to back with each other and , parallel. 
I did the same with a known good 2MT taper and, parallel. 

So far so good. 

Now to dial the face register and the 2MT taper and record the run out. The face should be zero after a skim of the face. The 2MT taper will have to be cleaned up prior to indicating. 

Then the options. 

Move the 2MT taper. This is actually the easiest as the reamers both have a rear center. 
Simply offset a center held in the tool holder or offset the tail stock the amount of radial run out , lock the spindle and advance the reamer. 

Move the face. This sucks as anything done to the face other than perfectly perpendicular to the axis is just brain dead and would work only with that specific accessory. 

Face to face chucks. Where you install a chuck on the spindle and true a shaft to it no mater what else is going on.
Place the other chuck on the shaft with its jaws facing the installed chuck. 
Reproduce its angular misalignment on the shaft and verify by indicating on it's register. 
if the misalignment between the OD of the chuck, the registration face and to a lesser degree, the "natural" center in the case of the scroll chuck agree, The spindle is bent. 
If the register does not agree with the OD or the "natural" center in a scroll chuck but the "natural" center do agree then straighten the register. (what a bunch of words)

The four jaw is easier once the three jaw is close. Get the run out and angular distortion out of the shaft. resort to the cigarette paper trick for out of round, tap to center for the live end. 
Install the 4 jaw on the shaft  exposing the register. True up the OD for run out. indicate the register. True up the register if necessary. 

Wash , rinse , repeat, until this becomes a repeatable operation. If it doesn't , run around in circles (isn't that what we've been doing?) screaming "Murphy!!! WHHHHHHY Me !!!!" 

Then it's back to the internal taper and making it agree to the  total indicated run out ( hopefully near nil at this point) 
If not then it's easy enough to move the taper a "few" thousands. 

and so it goes


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## kopcicle (Jul 4, 2022)

The reamer set I received from the AmaZombies. looks good. 
I tied the roughing an finish back to back with each other and , parallel. 
I did the same with a known good 2MT taper and, parallel. 

So far so good. 

Now to dial the face register and the 2MT taper and record the run out. The face should be zero after a skim of the face. The 2MT taper will have to be cleaned up prior to indicating. 

Then the options. 

Move the 2MT taper. This is actually the easiest as the reamers both have a rear center. 
Simply offset a center held in the tool holder or offset the tail stock the amount of radial run out , lock the spindle and advance the reamer. 

Move the face. This sucks as anything done to the face other than perfectly perpendicular to the axis is just brain dead and would work only with that specific accessory. 

Face to face chucks. Where you install a chuck on the spindle and true a shaft to it no mater what else is going on.
Place the other chuck on the shaft with its jaws facing the installed chuck. 
Reproduce its angular misalignment on the shaft and verify by indicating on it's register. 
if the misalignment between the OD of the chuck, the registration face and to a lesser degree, the "natural" center in the case of the scroll chuck agree, The spindle is bent. 
If the register does not agree with the OD or the "natural" center in a scroll chuck but the "natural" center do agree then straighten the register. (what a bunch of words)

The four jaw is easier once the three jaw is close. Get the run out and angular distortion out of the shaft. resort to the cigarette paper trick for out of round, tap to center for the live end. 
Install the 4 jaw on the shaft exposing the register. True up the OD for run out. indicate the register. True up the register if necessary. 

Wash , rinse , repeat, until this becomes a repeatable operation. If it doesn't , run around in circles (isn't that what we've been doing?) screaming "Murphy!!! WHHHHHHY Me !!!!" 

Then it's back to the internal taper and making it agree to the total indicated run out ( hopefully near nil at this point) 
If not then it's easy enough to move the taper a "few" thousands.


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## kopcicle (Jul 7, 2022)




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