# Help me evaluate this SB10L lathe for purchase



## HerbHall (Sep 21, 2012)

I'm really new to this, but I think I may have found my first real lathe for sale. I need some help in determining if it's a good deal. I've been reading and learning but this came up for sale and I'm not knowledgeable enough yet to know if I should buy it or wait for something else. I don't mind a project, but it's my first one so I don't want to get into a money pit with problems I don't have the skills to fix.

The ad reads: South Bend Metal Lathe for sale. 6" chuck, live center, taper attachment. requires 3 phase power. Must sell.
Some Pics:









It's a 10L 8187-Z. The owner says it was being used in a shop with production cnc machines for misc light duty work. It was running when he brought it home but he doesn't have the power to run it. He said it may need a new belt and may be missing a few fasteners. Asking price it $750.

So my questions are:

What do I need to look out for and how can I test it (non-running) to make sure there aren't problems I can't fix?
Hows the price? I thought it sounded real good, maybe too good, but the machine is rough and has little tooling. The owner worked in a production shop so I'm assuming he knows what it's worth. 
I know there are many questions I should ask, but I don't have the experience to know what they are. All assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Herb


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## AR1911 (Sep 21, 2012)

There is only one condition in a used SB lathe that is not fixable, and that is a worn bed. Volumes have been written out determining that so I'll leave that to your google-fu.

As for the price, that would be a good price here in North Texas. From what I've seen machines are cheaper in your area. Sounds like you have been shopping, so you and others in your area can best judge the value.

The 10L has been called the ideal lathe for home and small shop. The bore is big enough to use 5C collets, which is a big deal. It's good choice if the bed is good.


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## HerbHall (Sep 21, 2012)

The seller said it includes 6 tool holders and a 5C spindle tube and nose piece.


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## Bill Gruby (Sep 21, 2012)

#1 Seller says it was running when he brought it home. How long ago was that? Doesn't look like it's been run in a while.

  #2 What does it need for power if he can't run it at home?

  #3 The bed -- as everyone has said if it's in good shape -- OK

  If you can get a positive answer for those three go fo it.

  "Billy G" )


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## Pacer (Sep 21, 2012)

> What do I need to look out for and how can I test it (non-running) to make sure there aren't problems I can't fix?



This probably sums up the purchase of one of these old lathes... I guess Ill be the first to advise caution when buying this, or any other old machine. As said, the 10L is probably THE home shop lathe, but the one you show is some 60-65 years old (probably late 40's) and theres lots of things couldve happened. Condition could range from mostly needing a 'clean-up' like the one that 'woodtickgreg' has a long post on recently here on the forum---

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/7459-Heavy-10-project

To being like the one I got last year that was in really bad condition (and I paid $700 for it) It was a real challenge, and I am pretty well capable of doing these things. When finished I was into it at around $3000

http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/pace1980/South Bend Heavy 10/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ20

CNC has only been with us far a relatively few years, what was the lathes life before that?

Theres no pat answer as to whether its a good buy, the best solution would be to have a friend to go with you to check it out - and you will still have avenues that cant be checked without running it. Just be aware that youre not gonna be able to take it home, plug it in and go to making chips. Even if everything is OK, itll almost HAVE to be torn down and all the oil passages cleaned - from sitting a long time the oil solidifies and will clog to the point where they have to be cleaned by hand (and these old lathes HAVE to have a LOT of attention to hand oiling) - tearing down needs to be done anyway to find any worn gears/shafts/etc.

I would buy the lathe based on the pics, but would go in expecting the worst...


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## HerbHall (Sep 21, 2012)

Bill Gruby said:


> #1 Seller says it was running when he brought it home. How long ago was that? Doesn't look like it's been run in a while.
> 
> #2 What does it need for power if he can't run it at home?
> 
> ...



I don't know how long he's had it stored, that's a good question.
It has a three phase motor, but I can put a VFD on it without a problem.
I'm searching google and trying to learn some ways to check the bed and ways, but I'm starting to get the idea that I really need it setup and runnable to get a proper test. I can visually inspect for really obvious problems.

I made an initial offer of $500 based on my not being able to properly test it out. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping he'll take it. I think I'm pretty safe at that price I won't loose money. I could always sell the parts off it for that price.

Thanks,
Herb


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## HerbHall (Sep 21, 2012)

Thanks Pacer,

I'll read the threads. I'm kind of getting excited at the prospect of a project machine. I don't mind if it takes awhile, but cost could be an issue. I have a construction and maintenance background and I have some experience with industrial machinery. It would require some learning, but I really like that. I made an initial offer of $500. We'll see where it goes from there. If I can get the price down, I'll be starting a rebuild thread. I figure I've got access to the forums for info and if I get in to far over my head, like etard said I could always sell the parts and make my money back.

Thanks,
Herb




Pacer said:


> This probably sums up the purchase of one of these old lathes... I guess Ill be the first to advise caution when buying this, or any other old machine. As said, the 10L is probably THE home shop lathe, but the one you show is some 60-65 years old (probably late 40's) and theres lots of things couldve happened. Condition could range from mostly needing a 'clean-up' like the one that 'woodtickgreg' has a long post on recently here on the forum---
> 
> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/7459-Heavy-10-project
> 
> ...


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## pjf134 (Sep 21, 2012)

It looks like he started to clean off the rust then gave up, some shinny parts and some rusted parts. The gear box is the old type and I think would be hard to find good used parts for if needed. I do not see a ridge on the bed ways, but hard from a pic to tell. Check gears for missing teeth and bed for a lot of wear, some wear would be ok. On the plus side the taper attachment is worth some bucks. A tear down would be needed and some felts ect. to be sure if anything else is bad. I would not run it without a tear down first to make sure the spindle and other parts are getting oil. Take a straight edge and small mirror with you to check it out if you do. The most wear on the bed would be near the chuck. Why would the guy bring it home and never use it when he can add a VFD or a 110 motor to get it going for just a little money? He should finish cleaning the rust and add a cheap 110 motor and sell it for a lot more money. Since the shinny parts are not rusted he did it recent and why did he stop.
Paul


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## GK1918 (Sep 22, 2012)

I may as well stick my nose in this one >>>  do you know just the taper att and the thread dial is
worth??  Myself as far as the 3Ph motor I wouldnt even bother with it 1Ph 110v motors are a dime
a dozen.  $750 barely gets you a set of tires or car insurance nowadays.  I think of wear as a fact of
life Im worn out too.  Even with some bed wear you will manage, its close enough for gov. work. Of
what I see is that it will clean up/paint just fine all handwheels you can buff to a mirror finish.
So you buy it, learn it, understand it, earn money with it atleast you can have and touch it, not like
$750 a mo. going up in smoke out my chimmney.
Also I may be wrong or seeing things but that chuck sure looks like a Rhom and you would'nd want to buy one!


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 22, 2012)

For $750 I would buy it just based on the pics. A 5c collet closer, a 3 jaw chuck, a taper attachment, looks like the post and mount for a collett rack. It doesn't really look all that bad from the pics. I would snap it up. Parts for these are still plentiful if you look. imo it is a bargain, mine didn't have all the extras and I paid $500. if he has any other tooling for it the deal will be even sweeter. These old south bends are not that difficult to work on, if you have some mechanical knowledge you can do it! There is a book on ebay that is a great tool for working on one of these, it explains all the unknowns. It's a rebuild book, but I call it a owners manual on steroids!


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## HerbHall (Sep 22, 2012)

I emailed a $500 offer yesterday based on the ad. Got a reply this morning saying there are three people coming to see it at the listed price. I guess I should have just went to see it, but it's an hour and a half away from me, and I really can't afford it right now. I asked him to let me see it and make an offer before he lets it go, but I'm sure one of them will will bring cash and grab it up.


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## Pacer (Sep 22, 2012)

> but I'm sure one of them will will bring cash and grab it up.



Yes, thats probably true - that is a good price on a highly popular lathe.

I possibly read more into your initial inquiry on the lathe thinking your ability to tackle this type of project might be a bit short, but subsequent replies seem that you could make a good run at it. 

In several instances I have seen a similar situation like this where the guy has been preached to about "buy you some ole American iron, thats the only way to go" and the poor guy waits and looks and finally finds a Logan, Craftsman, SB, etc and gets it home and is completely overwhelmed with the repairs and chasing down parts - and that "ole Americun arn" sits in the corner gathering dust. I was hoping to point this type of scenario out to guys looking for a lathe.

On the flip side, there are those of us get a buzz from getting one of these things and getting elbow deep in grease, oil, rust, dirt etc and bringing it back to most of its original appearance - you sound like you just may be one of us, go try to get that lathe before someone else gets it!:thumbsup:


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## Hawkeye (Sep 22, 2012)

If the pictures are clear enough, the bed doesn't look too warn. The place to check is closest to the headstock, where most of the work has been done. You might have to dress the dovetail on the taper attachment (looks dented), but that's no biggy.

I've seen a lot of 3 phase motors, up to 700 HP, 4000 volt. You have to be more specific. VFDs take in X volts single phase (or 3-phase) and put out X volts 3-phase. If it's a 440 or 575 volt motor, you can't power it at home unless you buy a big enough transformer. A 220/440 motor, on the other hand, will work for you, provided the horsepower isn't more than your service can supply to. You might have to change motors to use a VFD at home. Could still be worth it.

Keep us posted. The pictures had me drooling.


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## HerbHall (Sep 22, 2012)

I have restored some smaller tools and made some tools. This would be a much larger project than I have taken on before. I know I can take it apart, replace parts, and reassemble it without an issue. I am afraid of what I don't know, not that I don't want to learn (I do), but I don't have a lot of money and I have had projects go unfinished for lack of funds. I don't wanna be that guy. My wife calls me Herb "the tool man" Hall. I do like tools and end up spending more time restoring old tools for my hobbies than actually using them. I've come to wanting a lathe and Mill and learning machining in order to be able to restore/make the tools for my woodworking/carving and other hobbies. I'll never admit it to my wife, but maybe she's right... "Hi, I'm Herb and I have a tool problem..." NAH I'm not a Toolaholic, there's nothing wrong with me. I just can't afford all the cool stuff I want, and I don't mind eating rust and grime and fixing broken stuff to get what I want.

I have emailed the seller and he seems genuinely interested in seeing the machine go to a good home. He won't sell it for scrap. I wish I knew more about the machine when I first saw the ad, I would have responded sooner. I'm third in line to see it now, so I expect it will be sold before I get to see it.


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## Rick_B (Sep 22, 2012)

Herb - I don't even meet Shawn's generous defiition of mechanically inclined and I was able to completely disassemble, clean, paint and reassemble a SB Heavy 9 lathe.  I f I can do it almost anybody can :.  Don't be afraid to ask questions, keep yourself and the parts organized (I use ziploc mags) and take lots of pictures before and during the disassembly.

Rick


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## Hawkeye (Sep 22, 2012)

If you have the space, follow the military method and lay out the parts from left to right as you take them off. Reassemble from right to left. The ziplocs will help with piles of bolts or nuts. Limit the contents to those for a particular part (eg. apron)

My mother uses a lot of frozen dinners she buys at the hospital. They come in black microwaveable trays. I can always count on getting a stack of them when I visit her. Perfect for keeping track of projects. Egg cartons are good, too, especially if you need to keep particular screws in the right order.


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## HerbHall (Sep 23, 2012)

Well, I got a reply and the Lathe was sold to the first person who came to see it. I'm sad I missed this opportunity, but hopefully I will be educated enough to make a quicker evaluation on the next deal that comes along. I appreciate all the help. I'll keep reading all the old threads and learning and watching for the next deal.

Thanks everyone,
Herb


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## sdelivery (Jan 8, 2021)

He who hesitates is lost


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## Asm109 (Jan 8, 2021)

sdelivery said:


> He who hesitates is lost


The irony of a post castigating procrastination 8+ years after a post must be delicious.


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## sdelivery (Jan 8, 2021)

Hmmm I am savoring it


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