# Looking For Replacement Motor For Th54



## Strtspdlx (Apr 12, 2015)

The motor in my lathe is 1/2hp 1728rpm frame 118e I'm having a hard tim finding something to fit. Does anyone have any recommendations?


Regards-Carlo


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## kd4gij (Apr 12, 2015)

This would be my first choice. It will give you variable speed. http://dealerselectric.com/item.asp?cID=2&scID=50&PID=24068


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 12, 2015)

It reads 3600rpm is that max rpm? 


Regards-Carlo


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## Ulma Doctor (Apr 12, 2015)

Strtspdlx said:


> The motor in my lathe is 1/2hp 1728rpm frame 118e I'm having a hard tim finding something to fit. Does anyone have any recommendations?
> 
> 
> Regards-Carlo


1/2 hp nema 56hz frame 115v single phase 1750 rpm would work as a replacement too, but the 3 phase motor and drive above is a great price and would be a great upgrade!
but if you want to go another direction here's a link for the motor
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-MOTOR-1-...412?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4601657e54
disregard the seller, the link was meant simply as an illustration of the motors and what it looks like.
i'm sorry i can't seem to remember what a 118 frame looks like- i'll have to look it up.
either direction you decide to go, modification will most likely be the end result.
we'll be around to help out in either event.


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## great white (Apr 12, 2015)

If you're looking for a direct replacement, UD has steered you in the right direction.

The above link for the motor and vfd is one attractive price for sure. A vfd gives you speed control.

I went a different route for my TH42 and used a cycletrol 150 (speed controller) and a Baldor 3440 (DC) motor.

TEFC is always a plus on a metal lathe that will by throwing chips and oil all over the place.

Can't comment on the 118e size, don't recognize it....


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 12, 2015)

great white said:


> If you're looking for a direct replacement, UD has steered you in the right direction.
> 
> The above link for the motor and vfd is one attractive price for sure. A vfd gives you speed control.
> 
> ...



What does TEFC stand for? And I'm assuming the original motor is what I have I do not have a good picture of it assembled however. 


Regards-Carlo


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## John Hasler (Apr 12, 2015)

Strtspdlx said:


> What does TEFC stand for? And I'm assuming the original motor is what I have I do not have a good picture of it assembled however.
> 
> 
> Regards-Carlo


Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled.  No holes for swarf to get in.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 12, 2015)

kd4gij said:


> This would be my first choice. It will give you variable speed. http://dealerselectric.com/item.asp?cID=2&scID=50&PID=24068



Is something like this plug and play? It mentions a phase converter and its three phase 230v. If it's all plug and play I'm all for it. Otherwise not so much. I'm on a strict budget and right now is a bad time for my budget too


Regards-Carlo


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## Ulma Doctor (Apr 13, 2015)

the vfd unit takes 115v and creates the 3phase 230v output, no outside converter is needed.
i'm a little concerned about the absolute speed of the motor at 3600 rpm, when the original motor is rated at half the rpm.
to get the same relative speed you'll need to run the motor at 30hz to match somewhere around 1750 rpm.
i haven't had experience with the motor/drive selection and can't intelligently speak about it, but something tells me that a difference in pulley size would be necessary to operate the drive at near rated speed of the old system.


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## wa5cab (Apr 13, 2015)

The original motor on a TH54 should have been a 56 frame rated at anywhere between 1700 and 1800 RPM (motor nameplate ratings have changed over the decades without any actual changes in the motors).  I have to agree that I would avoid a VFD drive system that was rated up to 3600 RPM.  You would be better off with one that uses a nominal 1800 RPM motor.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 13, 2015)

wa5cab said:


> The original motor on a TH54 should have been a 56 frame rated at anywhere between 1700 and 1800 RPM (motor nameplate ratings have changed over the decades without any actual changes in the motors).  I have to agree that I would avoid a VFD drive system that was rated up to 3600 RPM.  You would be better off with one that uses a nominal 1800 RPM motor.



Okay so for now the vfd is off the table. I'm
Looking for a direct bolt in. That being said. The motor I have is an atlas super power motor. I just assumed it was original because it's atlas. It never fit correctly however. So I'm looking for a 56 frame and if the rpm says anywhere from 1700-1800 I should be alright?


Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (Apr 13, 2015)

Yes, today it will probably list the RPM on the nameplate as 1725 RPM.  That happens to be the rated full load RPM.  The lighter the load, the closer to 1800 (synchronous) RPM it will run.

Note that 56C frame is not what you want.  Just 56.  Also, you do NOT want automatic overload reset.  Overload protection is good to have (although new it will add $ to the cost) but if you buy a motor with overload protection, be sure that it is manual reset.  On a machine tool, automatic reset is dangerous.  Other options to be aware of are reversible or not and 120 VAC or 120/240 VAC.  Standard shaft diameter will be 5/8".  If your motor pulley is a 9-428 instead of 10-428 and fits a 1/2" diameter shaft, you will have to look harder to find that.  One ready source is WW Grainger.  But price will likely be north of $200 even without overload.


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## wa5cab (Apr 13, 2015)

Is there an Atlas model number on the nameplate of the one that you have?


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## chevydyl (Apr 14, 2015)

+1 on 3ph and vfd, i have a 1.5hp motor that im going to have to figure out the mounting in the lathe underneath drive cabinet im curious to see what you do


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 14, 2015)

wa5cab said:


> Is there an Atlas model number on the nameplate of the one that you have?


There is I didn't have time to look last night to give you an answer. Bear with me I'll try to get it today as I'm running around like a chicken with its head cut off lately 


Regards-Carlo

Edit: I actually have a photo of the nameplate


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## Doubleeboy (Apr 14, 2015)

Is the current motor shot?  If it just needs bearings you might be ahead to get it repaired.  Just a thought.

michael


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## Ulma Doctor (Apr 14, 2015)

wa5cab said:


> Yes, today it will probably list the RPM on the nameplate as 1725 RPM.  That happens to be the rated full load RPM.  The lighter the load, the closer to 1800 (synchronous) RPM it will run.
> 
> Note that 56C frame is not what you want.  Just 56.  Also, you do NOT want automatic overload reset.  Overload protection is good to have (although new it will add $ to the cost) but if you buy a motor with overload protection, be sure that it is manual reset.  On a machine tool, automatic reset is dangerous.  Other options to be aware of are reversible or not and 120 VAC or 120/240 VAC.  Standard shaft diameter will be 5/8".  If your motor pulley is a 9-428 instead of 10-428 and fits a 1/2" diameter shaft, you will have to look harder to find that.  One ready source is WW Grainger.  But price will likely be north of $200 even without overload.




To add a few tidbits to what Robert has said,
a 56H frame has a 5/8" shaft and wide spaced motor mounting holes
a 56HZ frame is compatible with a lot of old frames. the shaft size is 7/8", the 56HZ has multiple mounting holes and slots.
a 56C is a face mount motor usually used for hydraulic pumps, there is no mount foot.
a 56 frame is similar in dimensions to a 56H, & 56HZ, but the mount foot has the mounting holes on the feet spaced closer together and only has 4 holes for mounting.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 14, 2015)

Well I got a harbor freight 56 frame motor. The capacitor barely clears and the pulleys won't line up to my satisfaction. But for now I'm using it. I priced a motor from grainger and it was something like 400$ so I couldn't buy that. 

The motor I currently have has a shorting issue and puts a heavy load on my circuit. I have to call a local rebuilder to see what they're price is. If it's similar to what I paid for the motor I have I'll get it rebuilt as I know it works although it doesn't seem to be the correct motor for the lathe. For now I'm back running so I'll have to deal with the little things as they show up. Right now though I'm battling play in my carriage and a lack of a center to support work that I'm using to setup the lathe correctly. 


Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (Apr 14, 2015)

Carlo,

In the motor photo, what is the first character of Cat No.?  I think that the second and third are 72.

I just recently bought a new 1/2 HP motor for my band saw (except that I decided to put it on my drill press and put the drill press motor on the band saw).  It is 120 volt (only), reversible, and no overload.  Cost me a little over $200 about three weeks ago.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 15, 2015)

wa5cab said:


> Carlo,
> 
> In the motor photo, what is the first character of Cat No.?  I think that the second and third are 72.
> 
> I just recently bought a new 1/2 HP motor for my band saw (except that I decided to put it on my drill press and put the drill press motor on the band saw).  It is 120 volt (only), reversible, and no overload.  Cost me a little over $200 about three weeks ago.



Cat no: 2720 
Where did you get the motor from?


Regards-Carlo


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 15, 2015)

In all honesty the motor I got it so quiet and runs so well I'm thinking about building a new motor mount to replace the original atlas mount so everything works correctly. I should have all the material to make it. I may have to make hinges but that should be it really. And this motor is multi voltage single phase. Jade manual reset overload
Protection and I paid 139$ all said and done with a 3 year replacement plan 


Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (Apr 15, 2015)

Strtspdlx said:


> Cat no: 2720
> Where did you get the motor from?
> 
> 
> Regards-Carlo


Carlo,

I bought the motor from Grainger.

The Atlas No. 2720 is listed in several Atlas catalogs as being suitable for the Atlas 10" lathe.  So I don't understand why you say that it doesn't fit.  Perhaps your countershaft assembly is incorrectly assembled?


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 15, 2015)

wa5cab said:


> Carlo,
> 
> I bought the motor from Grainger.
> 
> The Atlas No. 2720 is listed in several Atlas catalogs as being suitable for the Atlas 10" lathe.  So I don't understand why you say that it doesn't fit.  Perhaps your countershaft assembly is incorrectly assembled?



I'd suspect my motor mounting pad is incorrect before I'd think the countershaft is incorrect. I say that because from seeing others lathes mine looks to be correct. My 56 frame only aligns with two bolts towards the rear of the pad. I got the pulleys all aligned now but I had to leave two pads unbolted. 


Regards-Carlo


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## schor (Apr 15, 2015)

I just smoked the motor on my atlas and just put something on I had kicking around. 1/3hp up to 3/4 is fine. I buy old tools and often only for the motors. Get something for $30 and use the motor and parts. The motor mounts on the older stuff is almost always the same.


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## CluelessNewB (Apr 15, 2015)

This link shows the current Nema motor frame dimensions.  

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/nema-electrical-motor-frame-dimensions-d_1504.html

Those Atlas motors and many of the Walker-Turner motors were made by Kingston Conley, I believe the frame size numbers they used were unique to K-C and pre-date the Nema frame sizes.


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## CluelessNewB (Apr 15, 2015)

Here are tables showing the frame numbers Walker-Turner used for their flavor of Kingston Conley motors.  They were taken from a 1942 WT catalog.  Note the 118 frame number, for example on the KAB5 motor.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 15, 2015)

According to that chart I think I need a 56HZ frame for it to be correct mounting. For now I'll leave it be though. So far it's working good. I actually got to make some decent cuts on some real gummy material 
	

		
			
		

		
	





Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (Apr 15, 2015)

I agree with leaving well enough alone for now.  I'm still puzzled, however, as to why the original Atlas motor didn't fit the motor mounting bracket on the 10F lathe.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 15, 2015)

I can attempt to get pictures at some point if it may help. I also would like to know why it wouldn't. If it is the original in going to find someone who can rebuild it. 


Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (Apr 16, 2015)

In all probability, the Atlas motor is original to the lathe.  

Next time that I call Clausing, I will try to get a drawing of the original 10" motor mount.  I know that you wrote the motor frame size earlier but I can't seem to locate it and can't read it off of the nameplate.  So would you please repeat it?


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## CluelessNewB (Apr 16, 2015)

wa5cab said:


> I know that you wrote the motor frame size earlier but I can't seem to locate it and can't read it off of the nameplate.



Looks like 118E to me on the nameplate.


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 16, 2015)

Yes nameplate states 118e for frame size. And cat no is 2720 


Regards-Carlo


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## Strtspdlx (Apr 16, 2015)

Also if anyone has a lead on an original cross slide chip gaurd I'm in need. If I can't find one that isn't too expensive I'll make one from some tin 


Regards-Carlo


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## wa5cab (Apr 16, 2015)

The Walker-Turner chart shows 118 but not 118e.  What are the mounting hole spacings?


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## CluelessNewB (Apr 16, 2015)

wa5cab said:


> The Walker-Turner chart shows 118 but not 118e.  What are the mounting hole spacings?



Here are the 1947 W-T Motor sizes showing the 118-E   I didn't check everything but I think the big change is the location of the capacitor.


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## CluelessNewB (Apr 16, 2015)

The 1950 Walker-Turner catalog shows two columns for Frame size K-C (Kingston Conley) and NEMA, there is no NEMA size listed for the 118 K-C frame.  They are now up to 118 G but the base is still the same.


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## spongerich (Apr 17, 2015)

I'm about 99% sure I've got a chip guard for that machine.
I also have at least one original Atlas 1/2 HP motor... countershaft's, mounting plates and several other boxes of assorted Atlas parts too.

Drop me a PM


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## wa5cab (Apr 18, 2015)

spongerich,

What is the model number and condition of the Atlas motor?  I need to find one for my MFA.


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## spongerich (Apr 18, 2015)

wa5cab said:


> spongerich,
> 
> What is the model number and condition of the Atlas motor?  I need to find one for my MFA.



I'll take a look tomorrow.  I think I have a few of them.


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