# Punch Press: Recommendations?



## Uglydog (Feb 14, 2017)

I'm getting tired of running to town to pick up washers and shims.
When I do I need to sort the the bin trying to find parts that fit my needs. As the tolerances are sloppy.
I've got a bin of punches and dies, and 2 two post die sets that I don't know how to use. And no die press.
I've been sifting through various bits of info I've gleaned.
I think I'm ideally looking for a small lever operated one.
Regardless, I stumbled on this and thought it might be interesting to post.






Daryl
MN


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## rrjohnso2000 (Feb 14, 2017)

That is a man who has spent some time on a machine, it all rings true. 

Sorry, I can't remember any names but those small lever operated ones are just right for what you want to do. My dad had a bunch and would set them up for small at home batch jobs. Easy to set up and run even for a kid. 

Good luck finding one or two. Once you have one set up you'll find need for a few more


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## Ken from ontario (Feb 20, 2017)

What you might need is one of those small benchtop punch presses that plugs to a regular household wall plug,they do come up once in awhile on ebay,they have a very small capacity like making holes in leather belts or punching washers like you want to do or for forming pills(pharmaceutical). another options the modern version of these presses that are pneumatic.I must admit ,it'll be a lot of fun to use either type

 i


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## brino (Feb 20, 2017)

@Uglydog 
Daryl, first, I just gotta say the I enjoy your posts. 
From book recommendations to songs about factory work I appreciate your take on this life.

My local place has a Di-Acro turret punch similar to this:
http://vanderzielmachinery.com/punches/8470-di-acro-no-18-turret-punch.html

Which is very tempting until I see the $1200 price tag.......

-brino


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## Uglydog (Feb 20, 2017)

Ken from ontario said:


> What you might need is one of those small benchtop punch presses that plugs to a regular household wall plug,...  i
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, I've considered one of those. I've seen some that are less expensive than the foot or hand lever types. However, in addition to Gutheries song, I've heard they can be finger biters. Perhaps that's primarily in production and everything that goes with it.
I certainly haven't ruled it out.
I've got a message in to Roper Whitney with an attempt to identify which press the many punches and dies I already have might fit.
I've also thought about making one. I've done sillier things.

Daryl
MN


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## Uglydog (Feb 20, 2017)

brino said:


> @Uglydog
> Daryl, first, I just gotta say the I enjoy your posts.
> From book recommendations to songs about factory work I appreciate your take on this life.
> 
> ...



Brino, 
Thanks for the compliment.
When one looks at the price of individual dies and the fact that this one is coming fully stocked. This isn't a bad value.
Would save all kinds of time in set ups. On the other hand, I'm also thinking about how often I will use her. 
Hmmm, one with enough tonnage means that I'd never have to run to the hardware store again for washers and shims. 
Also, it would be a reason to save every very small scrap of leftover metal. 
This gets more tempting all the time!!!
Just think of the things I'd have a reason to collect.......................

Daryl
MN


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## brino (Feb 20, 2017)

Uglydog said:


> Just think of the things I'd have a reason to collect.......................



If you lived next door I'd go halves on it, and it could even live in your shop!
-brino


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## dennys502 (Mar 8, 2017)

I just noticed this - https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/bfs/6002543111.html 
Looks like it has a lot of tooling. You could also mount die sets in it.
Not far from you.


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## Uglydog (Mar 8, 2017)

Very close!
Thanks.

Daryl
MN


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## JimDawson (Mar 8, 2017)

Uglydog said:


> I've heard they can be finger biters. Perhaps that's primarily in production and everything that goes with it.



If you get a punch press, remember a turning flywheel is a loaded gun with a hair trigger.  Before sticking your fingers even close to the works, the machine needs to be disconnected from power and the flywheel stopped.  I had to dig a production supervisor out of a punch press about that size one time.  He didn't follow the safety rules when trying to make an adjustment.  Not fun.


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## Rustrp (Mar 8, 2017)

Uglydog said:


> Very close!
> Thanks.
> 
> Daryl
> MN



The Di-Acro or Rotex limits you by the station sizes. I don't have one but have used a few different models. The FA Robbins has lots of potential and the price is right, especially with the make offer invite, plus it fills the "Beast" qualifications. I'm not sure what the 15-20 ton comment is about, they're usually rated specific to tonage. Without a photo shot of the front it's difficult to tell if it can be set up for more than single station processes. 

Here's a link to the standard arbor presses http://www.dakecorp.com/products/arbor-presses 

I recomment the ratchet or compound type if you choose this direction. I have a 3-ton import single lever that I inherited that takes a cheater to get much action. My recommendation would be the Robbins or similar model especially if you apply tool and die machining to get the **How did you do that** questions. Plus, it's nice to hit the lever and get the single hit with the Beasty Speed.  I have a 7.5 ton Benchmaster set up to punch 4 holes (pretty simple) which I haven't used in a decade that I would offer up if you were closer. I'm sure there are presses at good prices, much closer to you. If the press has been abused it's usually scrap metal because a repair usually involves the frame.  

Russ


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## RJSakowski (Mar 8, 2017)

Daryl, I had used a kick press similar to this for years to punch out aluminum chassis.  I still have it and might consider parting with it.  It was disassembled for storage in my barn.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FAMCO-3-3-4...CH-PRESS-18-sheet-metal-shaping-/292046272562
I also have a small bench mount inertial press, about 1/2t, I believe and a large inertial press, something like 30t, made by Blow in Canada.  PM me if you might be interested.


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## Uglydog (Mar 8, 2017)

Where are the wear points?
I'm guessing anything that articulates, clearly anything which has been repaired.
And watch for alignment issues and good bearings/bushings?

Daryl
MN


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## dennys502 (Mar 8, 2017)

The ram has slides with adjustable gibbs normally. Check the play on the rod to the crank. 
Cycle it several times to make sure the dog works as it should and kicks out after each stroke. 
There's not really much to them and as long as the crank isn't worn out they're pretty easy to work on.
Check the Flywheel to make sure the bearings aren't worn out on it also.


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## Rustrp (Mar 8, 2017)

Dennys502 pretty much covered everything on the topside. The amount of wear in the rod, crank and bearing come into play when you are adjusting the depth the ram will travel, especially travel up when the punch contacts the die. As with all things in metal working the clearances or tolerances we're working to are key. Unless the topside is really sloppy, you can compensate with the ram adjustment. It's been so long since I used my press that I forgot how the ram attached to the punch and die.

In regards to Roper-Whitney; They have been around a long time so it means they have changed hands a few times. Their primary market is the HVAC sheetmetal industry, so their tolerances tend to be on the sloppy side and also they have limited selection. Standard punches and dies for precision sheet metal punching come with .005" and .012" clearance for the punch. Here's a link to Wilson as a resource to what's available in the market, of course not saying you're getting this serious. https://www.wilsontool.com 

I included Wilson because they supply the CNC precision side of the industry. With that said, this is the critical side of the punch press operation, where tolerances and clearances determine product quality. I googled bolster plate, which is what the die shoe sits on with everything critical betweent there and the ram connection.  https://www.google.com/search?q=pun...QsAQIIA&biw=1280&bih=894#imgrc=tKcQft6vSWIyFM:

I think around 23 rows down in the images, on the left side is the typical setup (same as mine) to attach your punch and die configuration.


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## gr8legs (Mar 9, 2017)

I have a Rotex 18 and a Thor 12 - and if what you want to do is make washers then my advice would be to spend 1/4 the money and buy a box or two of every size washer available. Reliably positioning a small coupon in either of these punches is a time consuming annoyance. I occasionally have to enlarge the 1/4" hole in a 1/2" brass washer to 5/16" and they usually end up funky or non-concentric due to the limited access to the punch area and the difficulty of seeing what you are doing. Hmmm . . . now that I wrote this I think I could pretty easily make a jig to hold the washer and precisely center/align it under the Rotex punch using the punch itself as an aligning pin. (The Rotex has enough clearance to get a jig into it)  Thanks for the kick in the butt!


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## Uglydog (Mar 9, 2017)

All,
Interesting ideas. 
I've had this 10ton Carver Lab Press. Comes down very square! 
Similar to:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/CARVER-LABORATORY-PRESS-MODEL-C-WITH-GUARD-12-TON-/112326997863
And a couple dozen punches and dies from an unknown manufacture.
I wonder if I could come up with something...

Daryl
MN


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## rrjohnso2000 (Mar 9, 2017)

That carver certainly would work for you, provided your piece count is low.


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## JPigg55 (Mar 9, 2017)

Any idea what size you're looking for Daryl ?
There's a small 1 ton listed on ebay.
Benchmaster Machanical Punch Press OBI 1 Ton 1/4HP 3/4"Stroke 2-1/8" Throat 115V.


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## dennys502 (Mar 9, 2017)

gr8legs said:


> I have a Rotex 18 and a Thor 12 - and if what you want to do is make washers then my advice would be to spend 1/4 the money and buy a box or two of every size washer available. Reliably positioning a small coupon in either of these punches is a time consuming annoyance. I occasionally have to enlarge the 1/4" hole in a 1/2" brass washer to 5/16" and they usually end up funky or non-concentric due to the limited access to the punch area and the difficulty of seeing what you are doing. Hmmm . . . now that I wrote this I think I could pretty easily make a jig to hold the washer and precisely center/align it under the Rotex punch using the punch itself as an aligning pin. (The Rotex has enough clearance to get a jig into it)  Thanks for the kick in the butt!




If you have a table on your turret press you could just clamp a stop to it like this. 
Just line it up with the punch that is the diameter of your washer.




Denny


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## gr8legs (Mar 9, 2017)

dennys502 said:


> If you have a table on your turret press you could just clamp a stop to it like this.
> Just line it up with the punch that is the diameter of your washer.
> 
> View attachment 228280
> ...


That is an excellent suggestion - unfortunately neither of my punches has an attached table . . . . but making a jig will be pretty easy so no worries. Thanks!

Stu


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## Glenn Brooks (Mar 9, 2017)

So what is the thickest diameter a small punch press will 'punch'?  Less than 3/16" mild steel?? So a better question is, Is there some kind of rule of thumb between the relationship between tons of pressure and thickness of the work?  Iam mostly intrigued by what it would do with steel.

Thanks
Glenn


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## Ken from ontario (Mar 10, 2017)

Glenn Brooks said:


> So what is the thickest diameter a small punch press will 'punch'?  Less than 3/16" mild steel?? So a better question is, Is there some kind of rule of thumb between the relationship between tons of pressure and thickness of the work?  Iam mostly intrigued by what it would do with steel.
> 
> Thanks
> Glenn


It is mostly a relationship between the top punch and the bottom die, if the material is of heavier gauge, the wider bottom die is used, for example, to punch a 0.250" hole in (14  Ga) mild steel, the top punch would be .250" and bottom die would be around . 265". the heavier/thicker the gauge(in mild steel), the wider the bottom die will have to be.


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## Rustrp (Mar 10, 2017)

Glenn Brooks said:


> So what is the thickest diameter a small punch press will 'punch'?  Less than 3/16" mild steel?? So a better question is, Is there some kind of rule of thumb between the relationship between tons of pressure and thickness of the work?  Iam mostly intrigued by what it would do with steel.
> 
> Thanks
> Glenn


In addition to what Ken stated, the general rule of thumb is to not punch (attempt) with a punch smaller than the thickness of material being punched. The best answer to the actual tonnage required would be to look at the chart. If the punch is rated at 20 tons and .250" thru .250" then anything larger based on the material thickness you could get off the chart. Of course most charts are based on a flat punch so when the punch is ground (usually larger diam.) on an angle the tonnage required changes.

I have a 20 ton ball bearing (ball screw) punch, hand operated rated at .3125" thru .250", that is limited to what I can muscle. An chance of punching anything larger isn't happening. A hydraulic press with a small punch in thicker material can results in a shattered punch.  When in doubt I drill.


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## Uglydog (Apr 12, 2017)

Thought I'd update you on my progress.
Below is a pic of the Carver Lab Press (10ton hydraulic) I already had.
I traded the die shoe for some supervised mill time with a local blacksmith artist.
Added a shop made stripper and a holder to hold the punch holder.
I'm punching holes!!
Note that this is clearly not a production set up....
A sincere thank all of you for the encouragement and ideas.

If anyone has any extra punches with a 1/2" shaft and/or 1.25" dies they might want to sell or trade please PM. I've already got a few. A wider selection would be nice.

Daryl
MN


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## dennys502 (Apr 12, 2017)

Looks good Daryl. 

I used to use urethane for strippers on a single punch. Different grade for hardness depending on material thickness being punched.


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